Podcasts about Jimmy Russell

In this special Spill episode, Jason sits down with Bruce Russell of Wild Turkey—alongside Anthony and Kenny from The Mashup podcast—to talk bourbon heritage, brand legacy, and the much-anticipated return of Wild Turkey 101 8-Year Bourbon.From family tradition to label decisions, Bruce shares what it means to carry the Russell name into the next generation of Kentucky whiskey. If you're a Wild Turkey fan or just love hearing from the real people behind the barrel, this one's for you.

In this episode, Jim and Todd join with special guest Amzie Wenning. We dive into a very special Wild Turkey release and three different recent Jim Beam releases. You'll get a kick out of this one! Smokeys Lifestyle Cigars The Hill House Bed and Breakfast  Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

We try some hard-to-get Wild Turkey bourbons in this episode, and they do not disappoint. 

Send us a textWhat happens when a beloved bourbon hits the shelves but doesn't quite grab collectors' attention? Join me as I explore this mystery surrounding Heaven Hill's new grain-to-glass Kentucky straight wheated bourbon whiskey. With its distinctive mash bill and powerful proof, it's an experience waiting to be unlocked. Not only do I dish out the latest on this under-the-radar gem, but I also reflect on the memorable moments and camaraderie that define our Scotchy Bourbon Boys gatherings, like the much-anticipated Bookers podcast and our festive Christmas party.The bourbon industry is as much about personal connections as it is about spirits. Through heartfelt stories, I salute industry stalwarts like Gregg Snyder and Alan Bishop, whose departures have left a significant impact on their brands and my own journey. While their exits are bittersweet, their legacy of friendship and dedication continues to inspire. I also share a detailed review of a Kentucky straight wheated bourbon that deserves the spotlight and celebrate the camaraderie bourbon brings, echoing the legacy of figures like Jimmy Russell and Booker Noe.Amidst the changing tides of the whiskey world, my passion for bourbon hunting remains unshaken. Learn from Super Nash, who taught me the art of building respectful relationships with local liquor store staff, a vital skill for securing elusive bottles. As I recount the joy of bourbon hunting adventures, from early morning stakeouts to vibrant Super Saturday events in Ohio, the thrill of the hunt is palpable. These experiences are about more than just acquiring rare bottles; they're about forging friendships and creating memories that outlast any whiskey. ad for Rosewood bourbonSupport the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

Send us a textEver wondered how to transform your Thanksgiving feast into an unforgettable experience? Join us as we share tales from our Thanksgiving celebration, featuring the one and only Seth, affectionately nicknamed "Gin" or "the genie." Together, we embark on a spirited journey through Whiskey Thief Distilling Company's tasting experiences, while Seth, Tiny, and Super Nash recount the legacy of Jimmy Russell, a legendary master distiller from Wild Turkey. As the aroma of Super Nash's famous deep-fried turkey wafts through the air, we lift our glasses of Wild Turkey bourbon, anticipating the day's football showdown between the Green Bay Packers and Miami.Thanksgiving morning begins with a heartfelt toast to family traditions and legendary distillers. Dive into the rich caramel notes of Wild Turkey 101 as we reminisce about cherished moments spent with loved ones, including those watching from above. Our conversations meander through nostalgic Thanksgiving memories, humorous family anecdotes, and bourbon-spiced culinary inspirations. Whether it's the rare visit to a country club or the familiar warmth of home, this episode is a testament to the magic of gathering with the ones we love.Our culinary chat sparks creativity with inventive bourbon-infused recipes, from mouthwatering stuffing balls to a bourbon-infused deep-fried turkey. We share indispensable safety tips and a few cooking mishaps, ensuring your Thanksgiving is both flavorful and safe. As we toast to new beginnings and celebrate the vibrant energy bourbon brings to our table, we emphasize responsible drinking while soaking in the joy of the holiday season. Let's raise a glass to a Thanksgiving filled with laughter, love, and lasting memories. Cheers! ad for Rosewood bourbonSupport the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

Drinks and a Moive Podcast is back! I've taken a short break to but here we are, back at it with season 7. This week Carissa and Jocelyn join me to discuss Eli Roths long awaited slasher film Thanksgiving. Since it's turkey day we break the seal on some Wild Turkey Jimmy Russell's 70th Anniversary bourbon. Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving.

Send us a textWhat if you could combine the thrilling world of football with the rich traditions of bourbon? This episode takes you on an unforgettable journey that begins at the Whiskey Thief Distilling Company, where farm-to-glass adventures await in Frankfort, Kentucky, and New Luton. Relive the excitement of a Packers game at Lambeau Field, where the struggle of finding the perfect jersey was overshadowed by the electric game-day atmosphere and the warmth of good friends. As the holiday season approaches, we highlight the joy of crafting bourbon balls and celebrating Thanksgiving with family, blending the passion for football and bourbon in a heartwarming tale of camaraderie.Celebrate the legends who transformed the bourbon industry, from Elmer T. Lee to Booker Noe and the iconic Jimmy Russell. Discover the rich history and deep bonds that have defined this community, as we explore the latest Booker's Batch 24.04, affectionately known as Jimmy's Batch. Personal stories of mentorship and friendship, like the one between Fred Noe and Jimmy Russell, illustrate the spirit of cooperation and trust that fuels the industry's success. Join us as we honor Jimmy Russell's enduring contributions and the heartfelt connections that keep the bourbon world thriving.Raise a glass in tribute with us as we savor the unique flavors of Booker's Bourbon, from its rich amber hue to the distinct taste of sour apple and brown spices. We remember a dear friend with a toast, underscoring bourbon's role in both celebration and solace. Exciting updates await as we announce upcoming events, including our third annual Wild Turkey podcast. Get ready for a night of tasting and discussion dedicated to the Jimmy Russell 70th anniversary wild turkey bottle. Embrace the spirit of adventure and camaraderie that defines the world of bourbon, and remember to enjoy responsibly. ad for Rosewood bourbonSupport the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

What better whiskey to celebrate with on Thanksgiving than Wild Turkey? It's like it was made for that specific US holiday. This year Wild Turkey has released a 70th anniversary whiskey to commemorate Jimmy Russell's 70th year at the company. See how that 70th anniversary edition stacks up against the companies Longbranch release in this week's episode. 

Steve, McNew, Kathy, Swiat and Lenny talk about 2024 – 04, the upcoming Booker's batch that serves as an homage to Jimmy Russell. TBD music is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com).   Important Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Our Events Page: bourbonpalooza.com Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. The ABV Barrel Shop: abvbarrelshop.com   Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

Steve, McNew, Kathy, Swiat and Lenny talk about 2024 – 04, the upcoming Booker's batch that serves as an homage to Jimmy Russell. TBD music is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com).   Important Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Our Events Page: bourbonpalooza.com Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. The ABV Barrel Shop: abvbarrelshop.com   Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

Steve, McNew, Jeff, Kathy & Jim celebrate Jimmy Russell's life and career on this 90th birthday. TBD music is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com).   Important Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Our Events Page: bourbonpalooza.com Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. The ABV Barrel Shop: abvbarrelshop.com   Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

  Finally a straight forward release. It's basically just Wild Turkey 101 with an 8 year age statement to celebrate the longest serving Master Distiller in the bourbon industry. Sure, it's pretty high priced compared to regular Wild Turkey, but I think it's instructive in the sense that REGULAR Wild Turkey is such a great deal and punches WAY above its weight. Fruit, oak, and honey in perfect harmony on the nose. On the palate, woodsy and sweet with a spicy kick on the mid-palate and finish. It's straight forward, not finished, not overaged, perfect whiskey, just the way Jimmy likes it.

Send us a textWhat happens when a master distiller's journey through the world of whiskey becomes a voyage of passion and innovation? Join us as Gregg Snyder, the mastermind behind Chicken Cock Whiskey, shares his fascinating career path, from his early days at Seagram's to his significant roles at Brown-Forman and Wild Turkey. Greg paints a vivid picture of how his father's love for bourbon shaped his palate and appreciation for whiskey, leading him to become a custodian of bourbon tradition while also embracing new adventures. And don't miss our exciting announcement about the upcoming Halloween podcast party, promising more tales of bourbon camaraderie.Gregg's narrative takes a turn towards brand creation, as he recounts his time as vice president of Austin Nichols and the inception of Russell's Reserve. Picture the scene: a surplus of aged whiskey and a historic opportunity to honor the legendary Jimmy Russell. Through Greg's insights, you'll witness firsthand the intricate dance between inventory management and creativity that gave birth to a celebrated brand. Discover the thought process behind launching Russell's Reserve and how it transformed surplus into a liquid tribute to a whiskey icon.In the realm of whiskey innovation, we explore the creative use of tea blends in proofing, introducing flavors that delight the modern palate. Delve into the nuances of Russell's Reserve's revered editions, savoring rich caramel notes and the complexity of barrel-proof whiskey. Celebrate the artistry of blending and the unique character of single-barrel selections, all while raising a glass to friendships and the skilled craftsmanship behind every bottle. As we toast to these shared moments, we remind our listeners to cherish the journey as much as the destination, all while looking forward to our Halloween special and more bourbon adventures ahead.voice over Whiskey Thief If You Have Gohsts Add for SOFLSupport the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

Send us a textThe Wild Turkey brand has become as synonymous with bourbon as its master distiller, Jimmy Russell, has during his 70 year tenure at the Campari-owned company. In honor of a feat unlike any other in the industry, Turkey brought to market a bourbon that both honors and represents the legacy of Jimmy's storied journey at his home distillery in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky. This 8 year old, 101 proof bourbon celebrates a flavor profile that after one sip, anyone who's grown to know and love Wild Turkey over the years can taste and say, "Yep: that's Jimmy's." On Eric's last episode before Perry returns from paternity leave, he reviews this beautifully crafted whiskey (with a special guest), and gives you an idea of just how important both Wild Turkey and Jimmy Russell are not just to Kentucky but to the world of bourbon at large. We hope you pour a toast, raise a glass, and thank Jimmy for bringing us some of the best dang bourbon we could have ever passed over our lips. Enjoy.Become a patron of the show at http://www.patreon.com/mybourbonpodcastLeave us a 5 star rating and review on your podcast app of choice!Send us an email with questions or comments to thisismybourbonshop@gmail.comSend us mail to PO Box 22609, Lexington, KY 40522Check out all of our merch and apparel: http://bourbonshop.threadless.com/Leave us a message for Barrel Rings at 859.428.8253Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mybourbonpod/Twitter: https://twitter.com/mybourbonpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/mybourbonpod/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisismybourbonpodcastPayPal, if you feel so inclined: PayPal.me/pritter1492Link to our Barrell Rye Armagnac Finished Pick: https://shop.whiskeyinmyweddingring.com/products/barrell-private-release-rye-1a03Support the show

Jimmy Russell, an amazingly talented musician originally from Washington, DC talks about his life, career, drumming, singing and the healing force of music.  Tweet us at @podcastcolors. Check out our partner program on international affairs Global with JJ Green on YouTube. Please subscribe. Email us at colors@the colorspodcast.com.

To honor Jimmy's incredible impact on the bourbon world, Wild Turkey is proud to present the limited-edition Wild Turkey Jimmy Russell's 70th Anniversary 8-Year-Old Bourbon. This collector-worthy release is an 8-Year-Old, 101-proof bourbon, with an additional blend of 8- to 9-year-old whiskeys, hand-selected from a few of Jimmy's favorite Rickhouses. Best enjoyed neat or over ice, this bourbon is a true tribute to Jimmy's legacy. Cheers!

Steve, Renee & Jeremy talk about the special bourbon release to celebrate Jimmy Russell's 70 years in the bourbon industry. The Bourbon Show music (Whiskey on the Mississippi) is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Important Links: ABV Network Shop: https://shop.abvnetwork.com/ YouTube: https://bit.ly/3kAJZQz Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

Bourbon heritage month is upon us and a big milestone happened. Jimmy Russell just passed 70 years at Wild Turkey, this is such a epic event they are releasing a special bottle for the event. But first a word from our sponsors. Badmotivatorbarrels.com/shop/aff=3 https://www.instagram.com/zsmithwhiskeyandmixology?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw== JIMMY RUSSELL'S70th ANNIVERSARY8-YEAR-OLD RELEASE Commemorative bourbon release honoring Master Distiller Jimmy Russell's 70th Anniversary with Wild Turkey making him the longest-tenured spirits Master Distiller in the world.  WILD TURKEY JIMMY RUSSELL'S 70TH ANNIVERSARY To honor Jimmy's incredible impact on the bourbon world, Wild Turkey is proud to present the limited-edition Wild Turkey Jimmy Russell's 70th Anniversary 8-Year-Old Bourbon. This collector-worthy release is an 8-Year-Old, 101-proof bourbon, with an additional blend of 8- to 9-year-old whiskeys, hand-selected from a few of Jimmy's favorite Rickhouses. Best enjoyed neat or over ice, this bourbon is a true tribute to Jimmy's legacy From his earliest days at the distillery sweeping the floors at age 18 to rising through the ranks to become Master Distiller, Jimmy has remained committed to crafting bourbon one way, the right way, even when it wasn't popular. In the 1970's and 80's when the bourbon industry was close to collapse, Jimmy stayed the course. 1855 Wholesale grocer Austin Nichols begins selling wine and spirits. The business would later go on to own and sell Wild Turkey. 1869 The Ripy brothers open their family distillery on Wild Turkey Hill in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky. 1893 The Ripy Brothers' bourbon represents Kentucky at the World's Fair in Chicago, Illinois. 1940 Wild Turkey Bourbon gets its name after a distillery executive shares his bourbon with friends on an annual hunting trip — of course, they were after wild turkey. THE RUSSELL EFFECT 1954 Master Distiller Jimmy Russell joins Wild Turkey. He learns his craft from becomes the third in a line of master distillers for the brand which includes second master distiller, Bill Hughes, and Ernest W. Ripy, son of the original distiller. 1976 Wild Turkey introduces the world's first bourbon liqueur, introducing a broader audience and attracting even more drinkers to the bourbon world. The liqueur would eventually lead to the creation of American Honey. 1981 Eddie Russell, son of Jimmy Russell, joins Wild Turkey as a relief operator and begins to work his way up the distillery ladder. 1991 Wild Turkey introduces our premium Rare Breed bourbon, one of the first barrel proof bourbons to hit the market. 1995 Wild Turkey follows it up with the launch of Kentucky Spirit, a single-barrel 101-proof bourbon, one of the only single barrel American whiskey offerings of the time. THE NEW VISION 2000 Master Distiller Jimmy Russell is inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame. 2004 Jimmy Russell celebrates his 50th year at the Wild Turkey distillery. 2010 Eddie Russell is inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame by his father, Jimmy Russell. 2015 Eddie Russell is officially given the title of Master Distiller, then making Jimmy and Eddie the only active father and son duo of bourbon Master Distillers in the world. 2016 Famed actor and bourbon enthusiast Matthew McConaughey joins Wild Turkey as Creative Director. 2018 Wild Turkey introduces Longbranch, a small-batch bourbon refined with Texas Mesquite and American Oak charcoals, and the first co-creation from Master Distiller Eddie Russell and Creative Director Matthew McConaughey. 2020 Wild Turkey introduces Rare Breed Rye, our premium quality, masterfully crafted barrel proof rye.  

It's This Week in Bourbon for September 20th 2024. Flaviar has acquired competitor Speakeasy Company, Maker's Mark Releases its 2024 Cellar Aged and Wild Turkey master distiller Jimmy Russell celebrated his 70th anniversary with the company.Show Notes: Heaven Hill opens the Five Brothers Bar & Kitchen Flaviar has acquired competitor Speakeasy Company Premiership Rugby has signed a new partnership with Buffalo Trace Tom Beckbe announces a collaboration with Pappy & Company Brewzle Whiskey Festival in Opelika, taking place on October 12, 2024 Southern Star NFL 30th season with a Special Barrel Release Dierks Bentley ROW 94 Lux Row Small Batch PX Sherry Cask Finish Ole Smoky Distillery is teaming up with Jason Kelce Wyoming Whiskey National Parks No. 4 and Old Faithful Straight Bourbon Whiskies Milam & Greene Whiskey Unabridged Volume 3 Jack Daniel's Single Barrel Special Release Coy Hill Barrelhouse 8 Hidden Barn Organic Wheated Bourbon Whiskey Wolves American Single Malt Cedar Brook Wheated Bourbon Silverbelly Whiskey limited single barrel Hard Truth Distilling Co. announced the release of four limited reserve whiskeys Filmland Spirits QUADRAFORCE Maker's Mark Cellar Aged 2024 Jimmy Russell's 70th Anniversary 8 Year Old Bourbon @heavenhilldistillery @buffalotracebourbon @tombeckbe @pappyandco @brewzle @dierksbentley @olesmokey @luxrow @milamandgreenewhiskey @makersmark @wildturkey @hidden_barn Support this podcast on Patreon

On September 10th, 2024, the family of Jimmy Russell, the employees of Wild Turkey, and whiskey enthusiasts from all over the world celebrated the 70th anniversary of Jimmy's time at Wild Turkey. Jimmy started with the distillery back in 1954 and is the oldest living master distiller in spirits. To celebrate this milestone, Wild Turkey created an 8 year 101 proof bourbon which is representative of everything that Jimmy holds dear about this beloved spirit. The best part? It carries an MSRP of only $50. It's been a long time since we've seen a limited offering with this low of a price tag. Join us this week as we review this bottle with a little help from a friend. As if this bottle wasn't enough, our guest host for this week is Cameron Leach from Drums & Drams. Cam has an excellent YouTube channel and we were honored to have him join us for this bottle review. Congratulations to Jimmy Russell and cheers to all! -------------------------- Socials IG: https://www.instagram.com/themashupky FB: https://www.facebook.com/themashupky TW: https://twitter.com/themashupky Partnership(s) Visit Bourbonoutfitter.com and enter code THEMASHUP for a special discount or visit bourbonoutfitter.com/THEMASHUP Visit https://woodworkcollective.shop and enter code MASHUP for a 15% discount on your order Music: All the Fixings by Zachariah Hickman Thank you so much for listening!

Beast Masters Club gathers with a live audience at our podcast studio to talk with our special guest Joann Street - Wild Turkey American Whiskey Ambassador and granddaughter of bourbon legend Jimmy Russell.  We talk through the ins and outs of Wild Turkey's production methods, aging, what it's like to grow up in the Russell family, and finally we select Beast Masters latest private barrel, a 9-year Russell's Reserve Single Barrel Bourbon!

Join us on our latest episode where we try booze made from other booze's trash...or Grappa.  What is this drink we are reviewing you may ask.  Grappa is made by distilling the pomace (a blend of grape seeds, stalks, and stems) leftover from the wine-making process.Is this drink good?  Is it worth the price tag? Should booze be made from other booze's trash? Only one way to find out...https://www.eataly.com/us_en/magazine/culture-and-tradition/discover-italian-grappa#newrelease #grappa #grapes #wine #pomace #drinkreview #podcast #isitworthit #arsenicculture https://www.youtube.com/@arsenicculturehttps://instagram.com/arsenicculturehttps://tiktok.com/@arsenicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/arsenicculture/https://x.com/arseniccultureThe Booze Made From Other Booze's Trash-E80https://www.youtube.com/@arsenicculturehttps://instagram.com/arsenicculturehttps://tiktok.com/@arsenicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/arsenicculture/https://x.com/arsenicculture

Jake and Scott sit down with two new, rare releases from Wild Turkey Distillery. The guys talk about their recent trip to Wild Turkey and taste Russell's Reserve 15 Year Old Kentucky Bourbon and Wild Turkey Master's Keep Triumph Rye.  A big thank you to the PR team for Wild Turkey and Russell's Reserve who helped maked this episode possible by providing generous samples of these two limited releases. Stream this episode on your favorite podcast app and be sure to drop us a review while you're there.  We are thankful for your support over the last 5 years. We must give the biggest shoutout to our growing Patreon Community of supporters! As always, we'd appreciate it if you would take a few minutes time to give us feedback on Bourbon Lens podcast. If you enjoy our content, consider giving us a 5 Star rating on your favorite podcast app, leave us a written review, and tell a fellow bourbon lover about our show. Follow us @BourbonLens on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn and X.  Also, consider supporting Bourbon Lens on Patreon for some of the behind the scenes, to earn Bourbon Lens swag, join the Bourbon Lens Tasting Club, and more. If you have any comments, questions, or guest suggestions, please email us at Info@BourbonLens.com. Check out BourbonLens.com to read our blog posts, whiskey news, podcast archive, and whiskey reviews. Cheers,Scott and JakeBourbon Lens Image Credit: Wild Turkey Distillery

Steve, Renee & Jeremy share their thoughts on the legacy of Wild Turkey's Jimmy Russell. The Bourbon Show music (Whiskey on the Mississippi) is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Important Links: ABV Network Shop: https://shop.abvnetwork.com/ YouTube: https://bit.ly/3kAJZQz Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

Join us as we take a trip down memory road to 1974.  We just happened to acquire a bottle of Old Taylor (86 proof) bourbon bottled that year.  Where did we find this diamond in the rough?  You could say it fell out of the sky...or ceiling.Joining us on this episode is a jack of all trades and a master of some (probably), our good friend Sam!*Due to some technical issues this episode is audio only*https://thewhiskeyjug.com/bourbon-whiskey/1986-old-taylor-bottled-in-bond-review/#bourbon #whiskey #rarebourbon #drinkreview #podcast #bourbonreview #isitworthit #arsenicculture https://www.youtube.com/@arsenicculturehttps://instagram.com/arsenicculturehttps://tiktok.com/@arsenicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/arsenicculture/https://x.com/arsenicculture50 Year Old Taylor, Ceiling Aged-E70https://www.youtube.com/@arsenicculturehttps://instagram.com/arsenicculturehttps://tiktok.com/@arsenicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/arsenicculture/https://x.com/arsenicculture

Many distilleries take great pains to be involved in their surrounding communities, but Scotland's Glen Wyvis Distillery goes to an extreme. That's because many members of the Dingwall community are shareholders in the community distillery, which was built with a crowdfunding campaign. The distillery donates a percentage of its profits each year to grants for local community programs, with a goal of improving life for all of Dingwall's residents. Distillery manager Matthew Farmer joins us on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth. In the news, Wild Turkey honors Jimmy Russell with its new visitors center, while Scotch Whisky industry leaders are worried about a potential return to tariffs after the U.S. Presidential election. 

What's a better gift than a bottle of Wild Turkey from the year you were born?  Turns out not much, lol.  Tune in to this episode where we gift our good friend, Jade with a bottle of Wild Turkey from the year he was born.  Bonus: you get to see us struggle (again) with a nearly disintegrated cork that's over 30 year old.Bottle featured is a 1991 Wild Turkey 101 proof with an 8 year age statement. https://tinyurl.com/WT-91-ReviewSpecial guest on this episode, our friend Jade from Local Kentucky Bourbon.#bourbon #whiskey #rarebourbon #drinkreview #podcast #newrelease #wildturkey #dusty #drinks #isitworthit #ourcynicculture  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpEcWikZ55QHotmldjuKVawhttps://www.instagram.com/ourcynicculture/https://www.tiktok.com/@ourcyniccultu..https://www.facebook.com/ourcynicculturehttps://twitter.com/ourcynicculture Wild Turkey For Your Birthday-E68https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpEcWikZ55QHotmldjuKVawhttps://www.instagram.com/ourcynicculture/https://www.tiktok.com/@ourcynicculture?lang=enhttps://twitter.com/ourcynicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/ourcynicculture

Jake travels to Lawrenceburg to sit down with Bruce Russell, the newly appointed Associate Blender for Wild Turkey and part of the famed Russell Family. During their conversation, Bruce discusses the legacy of the Russell Family, creating Generations with Jimmy and Eddie, and what's on the horizon for Wild Turkey Distillery. Stream this episode on your favorite podcast app and be sure to drop us a review while you're there.  We are thankful for everyone who has supported us over the last 5 years. The biggest shoutout to our growing Patreon Community of supporters! As always, we'd appreciate it if you would take a few minutes time to give us feedback on Bourbon Lens podcast. If you enjoy our content, consider giving us a 5 Star rating on your favorite podcast app, leave us a written review, and tell a fellow bourbon lover about our show. Follow us @BourbonLens on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter.  And please check out our Patreon to learn how you can support our endeavors, earn Bourbon Lens swag, be part of Bourbon Lens Tasting Club, and more. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please email us at Info@BourbonLens.com. Check out our BourbonLens.com to read our blog posts, whiskey news, podcast archive, and whiskey reviews. Cheers,Scott and JakeBourbon Lens   About Wild Turkey: The distillery for Wild Turkey Bourbon is in Kentucky, situated on a deep limestone shelf on the Kentucky River. The shelf acts as a natural filter and provides the distillery with crystal clear water, vital to making such a high-quality product. Wild Turkey features the legendary father and son Master Distilling team of Jimmy and Eddie Russell, who have over 100 years of collective experience working at the Wild Turkey distillery. The famous Wild Turkey brand name first came about back in 1940 when distillery executive Thomas McCarthey took a few warehouse samples on a Wild Turkey hunting trip with a group of friends. The following year, his friends asked him for "some of that Wild Turkey whiskey" and the brand was born. Wild Turkey is distilled and put into new oak barrels at a much lower ABV than most bourbons. This results in a much richer flavor, as less is cooked out during the production process. Ageing in the highest quality new American oak barrels with the heaviest char available (the Number 4 "alligator" char), imparts a smooth flavor and deep amber color to the whiskey. The barrels are filled at the distillery in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky. For more details on Wild Turkey, visit WildTurkey.com.

We are so stoked to have Sean Badders and Jimmy Russel of The Quick & Easy Boys in the studio with us this week The Quick & Easy Boys are a power-trio out of Portland, Oregon who creates their own blend of rock and roll. Imagine the Minutemen, the Police, and Band of Gypsy's rolled into one.​ Formed in 2005, The Quick & Easy Boys quickly made a name for themselves in Eugene, Oregon before relocating to Portland and becoming a renown nationally touring act. Their shows are an interactive party with electrifying stage antics and profound musical moments as the trio pours out every ounce of their energy, leaving nothing behind. The band has gained the reputation for moving a crowd all-night long whether it be a big festival or a tiny watering hole. Founding members Sean Badders on vocals and bass & Jimmy Russell on vocals and guitar play all the notes. Tyrone Hendrix joined in 2018 on percussion. The Quick & Easy Boys have continued to evolve musically…and audiences continue their enthusiastic calling of “Yeah Bud!” at every show. We get into: The origin of their particular brand of 'Funkytonk'. The Quick & Easy Boys' ethos of doing whatever the hell they want. Their greatest achievement being their brotherhood. The question of extraterrestrials being physical, interdimensional, or both. Finding magic in the chaos on stage. Why its okay for Sean to break the 'no shorts on stage' rule. How they strive to create a different experience every single show. ... and so much more! For show info, merch, and more head over to: www.thequickandeasyboys.com -For THE BEST MUSHROOM CHOCOLATES EVER go over to @MELTMUSHROOMS ON INSTAGRAM and shoot them a DM for a menu of all the amazing flavors of MUSHROOM CHOCOLATE BARS and MAKE SURE TO TELL THEM NSR SENT YOU FOR $20 OFF YOUR FIRST ORDER! -FREE SHIPPING from Shop Tour Bus Use The PROMO CODE: nosimpleroad -Make Sure to visit our friends at Fire On The Mountain for some amazing food at one of the 3 location in the Portland area or one of the 2 location in the Denver area! INTRO MUSIC PROVIDED BY - Will Hanza of Escaper MUSIC IN THE COMMERCIALS BY AND USED WITH PERMISSION OF: CIRCLES AROUND THE SUN OUTRO MUSIC BY AND USED WITH PERMISSION OF: CHILLDREN OF INDIGO No Simple Road is part of OSIRIS MEDIA. Osiris Media is the leading storyteller in music, combining the intimacy of podcasts with the power of music.

Imagine kicking off your Thanksgiving Day with a hearty conversation with a bourbon enthusiast, just like you. We've got CT joining us, hinting at some intriguing plans for next year, and we're all about stirring the pot. We're chatting everything from our fascination with Alan Bishop's enthralling podcast, "If you have Ghosts, you have Everything," to our very own ventures that bring the Scotchy Bourbon Boys to your screens - our website, our social media game, and of course, our select bourbon picks. We've recently let loose our Elijah Craig Barrel Proof single barrel release and there are just a few bottles left. Fancy one?Now, what's Thanksgiving without a little gratitude? We're here not just because we love a good bourbon, but because we love each other, this podcast, and you all - our vibrant community of bourbon enthusiasts. We journey down memory lane, tracing our steps through the world of whiskey, and the relationships we've found along the way. Yes, we need to watch out for the risks of alcohol, but let's also celebrate the positivity and connections it fosters. So, join us, as we salute the industry, the camaraderie, and the simple joy of savoring that perfect glass of bourbon! Support the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

We're celebrating a major milestone this week with the 1000th episode of WhiskyCast! To mark the occasion, Mark went back through the archives to pick some memorable moments and interviews from the past 18 years for this special episode. You'll hear from legends like the late Parker Beam and Michael Jackson, along with Jimmy Russell, Jim McEwan, Maureen Robinson, Fawn Weaver, and Richard Paterson...just to name a few. This episode is a lot longer than usual, and there's plenty more that we could have included. In the news, Scotch Whisky Association leaders are hoping to persuade Parliament to reject a tax increase on whiskies and other distilled spirits, while local officials in Kentucky are looking at moratoriums on new distillery construction following the phaseout of the state's barrel tax.

Join us as we track down and try a fully intact Vintage 1976 Oliver Hardy Ezra Brooks Decanter.  https://bourbonveach.com/2020/08/03/brand-history-ezra-brooks/#bourbonreview #allocatedbourbon #bourbon #dusty #dustybourbon #bourbonreview #rarebourbon #ourcynicculturehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpEcWikZ55QHotmldjuKVawhttps://www.instagram.com/ourcynicculture/https://www.tiktok.com/@ourcynicculture?lang=enhttps://twitter.com/ourcynicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/ourcynicculturehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpEcWikZ55QHotmldjuKVawhttps://www.instagram.com/ourcynicculture/https://www.tiktok.com/@ourcynicculture?lang=enhttps://twitter.com/ourcynicculturehttps://www.facebook.com/ourcynicculture

More than 40 years ago, Eddie Russell started working at Wild Turkey's distillery in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky. Ultimately, he became master distiller and created some of the brand's most well-known whiskies. In 2010, he was inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame. It's not unexpected—or even surprising—that he would have such a long and prolific career. Incredibly, Eddie's father, bourbon legend Jimmy Russell, has been working at the Wild Turkey distillery even longer, starting there on September 10, 1954. On this episode of Fix Me a Drink, Eddie joins hosts David Wondrich and Noah Rothbaum to talk about what it was like growing up in the bourbon business and how the explosion in popularity of American whiskey has made distillers inadvertent rock stars. The trio also shares stories about Jimmy Russell and reveals some all-time favorite bourbons and ryes. So pour yourself a glass of bourbon or rye and listen to this new episode of Fix Me a Drink. Cheers! Fix Me a Drink is hosted by Flaviar's resident liquor experts Noah Rothbaum and David Wondrich. On each episode, the award-winning duo enjoys a delicious drink while uncovering lost liquor history, exploring modern cocktail culture and interviewing an incredible array of spirited guests. So fix yourself a drink and enjoy the show! Please sip responsibly. This article is produced in sponsorship with one of our spirited partners. Podcast Editor Alex Skjong.

Bo Garrett (firebirdbo) visits the Bourbon Road Bar to sip on a little whiskey while picking some tunes on his custom made "gobble box". Listen in while the former lead guitarist for Montgomery Gentry and current Wild Turkey Brand Builder takes us on a ride down The Bourbon Road! The Bourbon Roadies: The Roadies Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

Eddie Russell has been making whiskey for 42 years, and is a Bourbon Hall of Fame member. Still, to many people, he'll always be known as "Jimmy Russell's son." That's what happens when you work alongside a legend, and now that he's established his own legacy, he's passing it on to his son Bruce, and as Eddie put it during our WhiskyCast In-Depth interview this week, "what goes around, comes around." We'll talk with Eddie about his two most recent releases, the Master's Keep Unforgotten edition and the Russell's Reserve Single Rickhouse edition, and how he's still learning on the job after 42 years. 

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Jim and Brian lay down an EP (extended play) episode with David "DJ" Jennings, RareBird101 and author of "American Spirit" and "Wild Turkey Musings". This is one episode you are not going to want to miss. David is real, raw and dedicated to the WIld Turkey Brand. He has a wealth of knowledge and some great whiskey anecdotes that will interest you for sure. Listen in as we deep dive Wild Turkey in this longer than normal, but deeply interesting episode. https://rarebird101.com/ Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

Tiny Does a late Turkey Day podcast. He reviews the Wild Turkey line up of WB Saffell Bond and Lillard plus Wild Turkey MasterKeep One. Find out what he thinks as he barrel bashes all 3 in this exciting podcast of the scotchy bourbon boys! www.logstilldistillery.comSupport the show

What better way to celebrate Thanksgiving than with some Turkey...Wild Turkey.  And what better person to celebrate with than Jimmy Russell.  Well, don't have Jimmy (or Eddie) but we have the next best thing in David Jennings.David is a Wild Turkey "super fan" and the authority on all things Wild Turkey.  Drew and Kevin taste three different Wild Turkey expressions with David and discuss what makes each special.  We also discuss David's book "American Spirit" that covers the history of the Wild Turkey distillery and brand and look forward to his upcoming follow-up book, "Wild Turkey Musings".David has a deep love and background in music, too.   The playlist companion for this show covers Bon Jovi to REM to The Monkees to Prince and can be found here:https://open.spotify.com/playlist/70M4NYwvwlOGODCdu3CR0h?si=45ac2eecbac2461bDavid also shared some YouTube videos he loves of fantastic music performances:Terry Kath of Chicago on guitar.  What an amazing guitar solo!https://youtu.be/Lba2g_u1CkgJames Brown steals the show on David Letterman in 1982:https://youtu.be/miwzvkESBI8Whitney Houston at the 1993 Billboard Music Awardshttps://youtu.be/ipQ0fE0MRWQPlease subscribe to the show and share the show with family you like (or don't like) over the Thanksgiving holiday.

Magical character and musicians talks about the current growth spurt he is experiencing and the journey he has taken trying advocate for himself and not cope with family trauma.

Has anyone held more jobs in the whiskey industry than Gregg Snyder? Seriously - I received the man's bio ahead of our interview and it was downright intimidating.  He's had roles at - just to name a few over a 41-year career: Chicken Cock/Grain and Barrel Kentucky Distiller's Association Joseph E. Seagram and Sons Jim Beam Western Spirits (Calumet, Sam Houston) Austin Nichols/Wild Turkey Distillery (where he created Russell's Reserve!) Brown Forman and Blue Grass Cooperage Associated Cooperage Industries of America Kentucky Bourbon Festival DISCUS Moonshine University He's also an honorary Kentucky Colonel, Diamond Life Member of the National Wild Turkey Federation, and more. Seriously - this guy not only knows a tremendous number of things but also at great depth.  The one that stood out most to me was his work at Blue Grass Cooperage, now known as Brown-Forman Cooperage, simply because how many master distillers have also been at the head of a cooperage?  His newest challenge is reviving Chicken Cock, a brand with tremendous history that suffered an unfortunate and long hiatus. It truly is a venerable brand, the "Famous Old Brand" that was the house whiskey at New York's Cotton Club during Prohibition.  Of course the name might make you snicker at first - we're all childish at heart, after all - but once you get past it you'll find a really cool brand putting out some great bourbon and rye. The limited editions have all been solid and interesting, some outright delicious.  Plus, listening to Gregg talk about Jimmy Russell like a regular guy who just "poked his head in my office" is hilariously fun.  _________________ Before we jump into the interview just a few quick notes: If you haven't joined the Patreon community yet, please consider doing so! The $5 tier has access to the Patreon-only segment called “Under the Influencer”, where some of your favorite YouTubers/Instagrammers/Podcasters and more join me to talk whiskey, life, and influencing. This tier will also have priority access to upcoming barrel picks, including one coming up in partnership with the This is my Bourbon Podcast.  The $25 tier - for people who really want to propel the pod and website forward - will have the same benefits as the $5 tier plus right of first refusal to join me on future barrel picks, access to bottles I'm sent to taste and review, and more. The first five boxes of samples have already been sent and only 5 spots remain!  You can still support for as little as $1 a month if you'd like to stay up to date with these changes and news about what we've got coming up.  Finally, please do like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening - it really helps the Whiskey Ring Podcast move up the rankings.  If you haven't yet, please follow Whiskey in my Wedding Ring and the Whiskey Ring Podcast on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, and subscribe to the newsletter on the website.  Thanks for reading! Now here's Gregg Snyder, Master Distiller of Chicken Cock Whiskey and Grain and Barrel.  Chicken Cock Chicken Cock Website Chicken Cock on Facebook Chicken Cock on YouTube Chicken Cock on Instagram Chicken Cock Reviews Chicken Cock Bourbon and Rye Review Chicken Cock Island Rooster Review (Coming today!) Thanks to our Sponsor, ImpEx Beverages https://impexbev.com ImpEx on Instagram ImpEx on Facebook ImpEx on Twitter Thanks to our Sponsor, Scotch Malt Whisky Society SMWS Website SMWS of America Website (Use code WRP for 20% off your membership!) SMWS/A Facebook SMWS/A Instagram SMWS/A Twitter SMWS/A YouTube

There's not many people in the bourbon industry that have a story like our guest. Bo Garrett wanted a better life than working in the coal mines of eastern Kentucky. He picked up a guitar and left for Lexington, Kentucky to be discovered. He met some key people that would change his life forever and spent over 20 years together on the road as the lead guitarist for Montgomery Gentry while being sponsored by Jim Beam. After the tragic passing of Troy Montgomery, it sent Bo to a dark place and he needed something. After a fateful run-in with Jimmy Russell while having dinner with Fred Noe, he started giving tours at Wild Turkey and discovered a new passion and became one of their esteemed Brand Builders. After you hear this story, you will see that Bo is the literal rockstar of the bourbon world. Show Notes: Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about proofing based on taste or most money Did you have a family history in moonshining? When did you start getting into playing guitar? What genre did you first start with? What did the music career really take off? What was your best and worst tour experience? Do you miss life on the road and touring? What is your guitar of choice? Do you still keep in touch with everyone in the band? How did Booker Beam and Montgomery Gentry come together? Do you look back on your days on the road and wish you hunted more? What made you want to be a tour guide at Wild Turkey when you weren't touring? How are you finding historical information and pictures to share on social media? Are you digging up more history on Jimmy Russell as you spend time with him? What else are you doing as a Brand Builder at Wild Turkey? @wildturkey @montgomerygentry Support this podcast on Patreon

Jim and Mike welcome Bruce Russell from Wild Turkey to Jeptha Bend Farm. Join in as we sip through some very cool expressions from Wild Turkey and talk whiskey, family and growing up in a distillery family. https://www.wildturkeybourbon.com/ Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

Join us as we track down a bottle of dusty bourbon.  In this episode we try Wild Turkey 101, aged 8 years and bottled in 1982.https://rarebird101.com/2019/06/11/whats-a-dusty/#bourbon #dusty #dustybourbon #bourbonreview #rarebourbon #ourcynicculture

Eric and I are back for another big podcast this week, to discuss the newest Maker's 46 bottle design, a big honor for our dearly beloved Jimmy Russell, and then review the newest batch of high rye bourbon from Blue Run Spirits. Spoilers: we weren't expecting this outcome. Enjoy. Become a patron of the show at http://www.patreon.com/mybourbonpodcast Send us an email with questions or comments to thisismybourbonshop@gmail.com Check out all of our merch and apparel: http://bourbonshop.threadless.com/ Leave us a message for Barrel Rings at (859)428-8253 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mybourbonpod/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mybourbonpod Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mybourbonpod/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisismybourbonpodcast PayPal, if you feel so inclined: PayPal.me/pritter1492

Listen in as Jim and Mike review a a fan favorite for this show. Clocking in a t a minimum of 10 years aged, the Russell's Reserve 10 Year Small Batch Bourbon get's the full attention of the boys today. https://www.russellsreserve.com/ Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

The 23rd episode of the Bourbon & Banter podcast – The Horsemen Ride - is now available for your listening and drinking pleasure. With the Midwest weather, Pops and Bob have braved wind, sleet, snow, ice, hail, and bad bourbon to bring you this month's installment of the most honest podcast in bourbon. Our community thread spotlight reflects on a new product that brings dung, yes ACTUAL DUNG, to gin. If you want to join the Bourbon & Banter community, where we cut all the bullshit from standard social media groups like crotch shots, be sure to check out our social media platforms for more information. The whiskey news reflects on a historic burn to AB-InBev's new Bud Light Nex, likely from their archrivals over at Miller Coors. The moral here folks: always register your web domain. Chuck Cowdery shares his thoughts on rebranding MGP's flagship bourbon George Remus (yes, we know they changed the name of the distillery…we don't care), and politicians are at it again, this time with Kentucky's single barrel programs. Our new release spotlight starts with one of the best offerings we've had recently, this one from Green River Distilling. Pops doesn't recommend a bottle…he recommends several bottles. The Craft Shoot comes in blazing with a release that inspires some of the most feverish commentary we've heard from this segment. You'll have to listen to find out if it's good or bad. We close Episode #23 with the most popular segment in all of bourbon podcasting: BOURBON BULLSHIT featuring peanut butter whiskey and a disturbing development with the newest spirits awards competition.  Have comments or questions? Drop us a line at podcast@bourbonbanter.com.  Cheers! 

Happy Valentine's Day!Thanks so much for listening and watching - it's really been a gift to see more people discover the audio and video version of the podcast over the past week. Your eyes and ears are a gift to me - and I appreciate you so much! Another gift - the new logo and background from Symmytree, thanks to Double G - check out his work at Symmytree.com Brought to you by The Real Voice - Mel Allen. Providing voice over for commercials, podcasts, explainer videos, and more. Samples and demos at https://therealvoice.com Congratulations to all those who brought gold, silver, and bronze medals home - no I'm not talking about the Olympics - I'm talking about the Texas Craft Brewers Cup. Don't get me started that they called it the first annual because, until it happens again next year - is there any way of knowing it might be the last annual too? Anyway - 81 medals were given to 57 small and independent brewers across the state out of 131 breweries that entered. That amounts to 27 medal categories covering 150+ different beer styles that were awarded gold, silver, and bronze medals. They had a tough job anonymizing 755 entries to make sure only a select few knew what anyone was even judging! For the full list head to https://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/business-marketing/here-are-the-winners-of-first-annual-texas-craft-brewers-cup/ Blue Run Spirits is making a splash in the glass of the whiskey world. First - they picked up former Four Roses master distiller Jim Rutledge. That went off with a bang as the “liquid advisor” helped them sell out of some releases in minutes and win the 2021 San Francisco World Spirits Competition! Since then they have also added “the Buddha of Bourbon” protege of Wild Turkey master distillers Jimmy Russell, son, Eddie Russell. They've also named Blue Run's first whiskey director - Shaylyn Gammon of Louisville - to help expand the brand's portfolio. She created the Russell's Reserve 13-year-old Bourbon, which was named the Best American Whiskey of 2021 by Fred Minnick. I don't know what's in the water - but apparently there's magic in the whisky there! They're expanding their reach too with 10,000 bottles now available in 14 states and across three countries. The full story at https://www.kentucky.com/lexgoeat/bourbon/article258165858.html The code has been cracked! For years the issue has been that NA beers have been a bit lackluster. While some seem to have cracked the code their own way (like Athletic Brewing and Zero Gravity) researchers at the University of Copenhagen say "What non-alcoholic beer lacks is the aroma from hops. When you remove the alcohol from the beer, for example by heating it up, you also kill the aroma that comes from hops. Other methods for making alcohol-free beer by minimizing fermentation also lead to poor aroma because alcohol is needed for hops to pass their unique flavor to the beer.” Small molecules called monoterpenoids seem to be the reason and the process the researchers found should also allow more flavorful NA beers to be made with a much les energy intensive process - saving brewers big bucks! The method is already being tested in breweries in Denmark and the plan is to have the technique ready for the entire brewing industry in October 2022. Get the full story at https://phys.org/news/2022-02-non-alcoholic-beer-regular.html Next Time: I'm putting together the next rounds of interviews and we'll go Another Round this coming weekend - until then binge some back episodes of the weekday podcast and the Bonus interviews too! The Boozebuddy Update continues on video! On Spotify, watch alongside the podcast, or head to the YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC033VXK28YhXgJAYpHS-C_w Head to BoozebuddyUpdate.com to comment or get in touch with me! Remember - don't drink and drive, stay safe, drive sober and support the booze that supports your local community. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/boozebuddy/support

Steve, Miss Beka Sue, Luke, Cailee and Evan discuss Jimmy Russell's amazing career at Wild Turkey. TBD music is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Important Links: Steve Akley's New Book, Bourbon Assignments: https://amzn.to/2Y68Eoy ABV Network Shop: https://shop.abvnetwork.com/ YouTube: https://bit.ly/3kAJZQz Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

Tiny Xavier and Super Nash have an absolute  blast tasting WB Saffel and wild turkey masters keep one!  Does it get any better than this? In this podcast of the Scotchy Bourbon Boys.www.logstilldistillery.com Support the show

Distillers like to say they're laying down whiskies for the next generation, but in many cases, it's their next generation who will be bottling those whiskies. That tradition is being passed on now in the Noe and Russell families, as Freddie Noe and Bruce Russell take on more and more responsibilities at the Jim Beam and Wild Turkey distilleries. Freddie is the eighth generation of his branch of the Beam family tree, and will eventually take over for his father Fred Noe as Beam's master distiller. Bruce is the son of Wild Turkey Master Distiller Eddie Russell, who had to work for decades under his father, the legendary Jimmy Russell...who celebrated his 67th anniversary at Wild Turkey this past Friday. We'll catch up with Freddie and Bruce on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth. In the news, it's Kentucky Bourbon Festival week in Bardstown, but this year's festival is being hit by both Covid-19 and a strike at Heaven Hill that's forced that distillery to pull out of festival events.  We'll have those stories and in our Behind the Label segment, we'll remember one of whisky's unsung heroes who passed away the other day.

Boogaloo guitarist talks about the bevy of projects and bands that he is a part of in the Pacific Northwest.

This week we crunched the numbers, did the research, and swooned over Jimmy Russell… oh and there was his Wild Turkey Rare Breed Bourbon. Our first review of a barrel proof bourbon. Find out if it was 116.8% too much for us, or hits the target right where it needs to. Check out Wild Turkey's website, and Rare Breed too! Other things we talk about: New covid test Char levels ( Great article about it too!) The French We like Jimmy Russell Jimmy "Scooter" Russell Mr. Wild Turkey The Man, The Myth, The Legend Check out the Death-Bottle list! (Work in progress and will be cleaned up as we build on it) --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/smellmywhiskey/support

Episode 33 features Wild Turkey 101 Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. A standard bearer of American bourbon bottled at 50.5% ABV, or 101 proof. It retails for about $27 for a 750ml bottle. Enjoy this episode with some Wild Turkey! Wild Turkey's official website: https://wildturkeybourbon.com/ (https://wildturkeybourbon.com/) Brief Historical Timeline: 1855 - Companies that will become Austin Nichols are formed 1860s - The Ripy family is distilling whiskey near the present day site of the Wild Turkey distillery 1934 - Austin Nichols gets into the wine and spirits business 1940 - A sales executive goes on a wild turkey hunt and takes some bourbon with him 1942 - Wild Turkey as a brand is launched 1971 - Austin Nichols buys the distillery run by the Ripy family 1980 - Wild Turkey is sold to Pernod Ricard 2009 - Campari Group buys Wild Turkey 2011 - New distillery opens 2016 - Actor Matthew McConaughey becomes the brand's creative director and spokesman Key Cocktails: Wild Turkey goes great in any classic bourbon or whiskey cocktail, it's also well known to "improve the flavor of ice!" Here's the original cocktail, Wild Turkey's take on the Old Fashioned: Wild Turkey Old Fashioned: 2 oz Wild Turkey 101 Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey 1/4 oz simple syrup 2 dashes Angostura Bitters Stir ingredients together. Pour over ice into a rocks or Old Fashioned glass and garnish with an orange peel. References: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Turkey_(bourbon) (Wikipedia article on Wild Turkey) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_proof (Wikipedia article on alcohol proof) https://rarebird101.com/wt-timeline/ (Rare Bird 101 website timeline of Wild Turkey) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmZZNbUsyt8 (Wild Turkey Bourbon Short Film with Matthew McConaughey) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfs5u3j4g54 (YouTube interview with Jimmy Russell) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmsqa22EYL0 (YouTube interview with Jimmy and Eddie Russell) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSk2Z2H947U (PBS interview via YouTube with Jimmy Russell ) Contact Information: Official show website is: https://www.liquorandliqueurconnoisseur.com/ (www.liquorandliqueurconnoisseur.com) Join my mailing list: http://eepurl.com/hfyhHf (http://eepurl.com/hfyhHf) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liquorandliqueurconnoisseur (https://www.facebook.com/liquorandliqueurconnoisseur) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/LiquorandLiqueurConnoisseur/ (https://www.instagram.com/LiquorandLiqueurConnoisseur/) Twitter: @LLConnoisseur

Available across the world and known for its consistency, join us as we discuss how this iconic spirit holds a rank of its own brought to you by Jimmy Russell of Wild Turkey Distillery.

Steve, Miss Beka Sue, Royce, Alan, Lenny, Andrew & Adam talk about Jimmy Russell of Wild Turkey. TBD music is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Important Links: ABV Network Shop: https://shop.abvnetwork.com/ Our Club: https://www.abvnetwork.com/club Challenge Coin Challenges: https://www.abvnetwork.com/coin Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

He’s the ultimate Wild Turkey fan and he’s just released a new book on the history of Wild Turkey. You may know David Jennings better as “Rare Bird 101”.  He joins us on this week’s episode to “talk Turkey”.  Wild Turkey’s history is unique and full of rich family traditions.  This is all detailed in the new book, American Spirit: Wild Turkey Bourbon from Ripy to Russell.   We enjoyed the book and recommend any bourbon love to pick up the book at https://wildturkeybook.com/; you’ll develop a new appreciation for that bottle of Wild Turkey 101 you see so frequently on the bar or store shelf. More links can be found below to Rare Bird 101’s website, social media, and more.  As always, we appreciate you giving us a 5 star rating on your podcast player of choice and be sure to leave us a written review. We are grateful of our listeners who help us to spread the word to their friends. Also, be sure to follow us @BourbonLens on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please email us at TheBourbonLens@Gmail.com  Visit our website www.BourbonLens.com to check out our blog posts and see what we are up to. Cheers, Scott, Jake, and MichaelThe Bourbon Lens About American Spirit: Wild Turkey Bourbon from Ripy to Russell, by David Jennings The story of Wild Turkey is in many ways the story of bourbon itself. From the struggles of nineteenth-century immigrants, to the triumphs of the longest-tenured master distiller in the world, a bold, uniquely American spirit emerges. American Spirit: Wild Turkey Bourbon from Ripy to Russell is a tribute to the perseverance of two families, each perfecting their passion through extraordinary circumstances. It’s a testament to Jimmy Russell and his sixty-five years of unmatched dedication to quality. And much like a glass of fine bourbon, it’s a journey – a personal reflection on something carefully crafted over time. This book is a love letter to Wild Turkey that all bourbon enthusiasts can raise a glass to and enjoy. Links: https://rarebird101.com  https://www.patreon.com/rarebird101 https://wildturkeybook.com/ https://rarebird101.com/2020/06/09/wild-turkey-rare-breed-rye-112-2-2020/ https://rarebird101.com/2020/06/23/wild-turkey-masters-keep-bottled-in-bond-2020/ https://rarebird101.com/2020/06/30/camp-nelson-rickhouse-f-blind-comparison/   Image copyright 2019 David Jennings. Photography by Victor Sizemore.  

David Jennings (Rare Bird 101) talks to us about his love of Wild Turkey Distillery, his upcoming book, and the best Wild Turkey stories. We breifly cover the history of the distillery, the brand, and the undeniable influence of Jimmy Russell.Pre-order David's book. You can find David on Instagram, Twitter, and read his latest reviews.Follow Jamie on Twitter and InstagramFollow Mark on Twitter and InstagramGet Mark's book: The Whisky CabinetSupport the podcast (and get great perks) on Patreon.Get your latest whisky reviews on whisky.buzz! You can find this week's patron exclusive content here.This podcast was edited and mixed by Bryan Goman.The theme song is licensed in thanks to Alan Doyle! It's available on iTunes.

David Jennings (Rare Bird 101) talks to us about his love of Wild Turkey Distillery, his upcoming book, and the best Wild Turkey stories. We breifly cover the history of the distillery, the brand, and the undeniable influence of Jimmy Russell. Pre-order David's book. You can find David on Instagram, Twitter, and read his latest reviews. Follow Jamie on Twitter and Instagram Follow Mark on Twitter and Instagram Get Mark's book: The Whisky Cabinet Support the podcast (and get great perks) on Patreon. Get your latest whisky reviews on whisky.buzz! You can find this week's patron exclusive content here.  This podcast was edited and mixed by Bryan Goman. The theme song is licensed in thanks to Alan Doyle! It's available on iTunes.

Michael Myers sits down to tell us his story of starting Distillery 291. He had a booming photography career, but while living in NY during the events of 9/11, it made him want something else. He found out early on that he liked whiskey, so like most of us who start off with something new, he researched and used his skills from a past farm life to make it a reality. Michael actually built his very first still on a tight budget and ended up using some of his photography equipment to create the still. From these humble beginnings, his whiskey has gone off to win many different awards and they are now expanding even further, creating a whiskey that is Aspen stave finished and authentic to Colorado. Show Partners: The University of Louisville has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/bourbonpursuit. In 2013, Joe Beatrice launched Barrell Craft Spirits without a distillery or defied conventional wisdom. To this day, his team sources and blends exceptional barrels from established producers and bottles at cask strength. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: Maker's Mark Solar Panels: https://www.wlky.com/article/makers-mark-now-powering-rickhouses-with-help-of-500-solar-panels/31017612 Beverage Daily Article: https://www.beveragedaily.com/Article/2020/02/17/Alcohol-s-three-tier-system-slows-ecommerce-and-dates-the-industry Why Does Whiskey Taste Like Whiskey: https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-does-whiskey-taste-like-whiskey-an-excerpt-from-lew-brysons-new-book-whiskey-master-class Rate Our Podcast: https://ratethispodcast.com/bourbon This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about blended whiskey. When were you first introduced to bourbon? Where are you from? How long where you in Savannah? Let's talk about your background in photography. Which more enjoyable, photography or whiskey making? Tell us about your experience with 9/11. How were your first attempts at making whiskey? Did you lean on any outside consultants? Tell us about building and designing your still. How much did it cost to build your still? What was your end goal when you first started? Tell us about your barrels. What was going through your mind when you first started? Did your photography career fund the whiskey business? Tell us about your awards. What is the operation like today? Was it daunting coming to Kentucky with your bourbon? Did you experience growing pains? What do you want our listeners to leave with about 291? 0:00 To be the best you have to learn from the best local in the surrounding regions are home to many of the most storied companies and innovative startups in the distilled spirits industry. And there's no better place to learn the business of the distilled spirits industry. Then from a university located in its Epicenter, the University of Louisville has partnered with industry experts to offer the distilled spirits business certificate, a six course program designed to accelerate your success in this booming industry. Oh, it's all online. get signed up to make your next career move at U of l.me slash bourbon pursuit. 0:36 Michael Myers Michael Michael Myers got it. 0:40 We didn't want to say anything but I'm sure you get all the time people like Michael Myers especially down like Halloween coming up and studly yo Yeah, never 0:48 your 0:50 damn life. 0:52 And my first name is Jason. Believe it or not, he shouldn't be though. Oh my gosh. 1:07 This is Episode 242 of bourbon pursuit. I'm Kenny. And if you're ready for your bourbon whiskey and overall spirits news, it's about time we get to it. According to the US securities regulation charges in its 2014 and 2015 fiscal years biagio North America pressure distributors to buy excess inventory in order to meet internal sales targets in the face of declining markets, and now is hit with a $5 million dollar fine from the SEC, johnnie Walker's owner Diaz you failed to disclose the excess stocks to investors creating a misleading impression that the audio and the audio North America were able to achieve their sales targets through normal customer man according to the SEC. Now without admitting or denying the SEC findings, Dr. Gao has agreed to pay a $5 million penalty and agreed to cease and desist from any further 2:00 violations. The SEC has accepted the offer. Lexapro distillers is paying homage to the past by relaunching an old bourbon. The Davis county Kentucky straight bourbon is being released in three varieties. The Nashville is a mix of weeded bourbon and rye mash Bill said it liver a sweet and spicy taste. There will be the original a Cabernet Sauvignon finish in a French oak finish. Davis county distilling company was the first to release the bourbon, and the brand dates back to 1874 and was one of the few distilleries to survive prohibition. 2:34 Maker's Mark has added more than 500 solar panels to its facility. In Loretto to power its Rick houses, and it's done through a partnership with the Kentucky utilities company. The 560 panels will provide energy for security, lighting, barrel elevators and office spaces in the brick houses. However, I'm curious if there's actually office space at a brick house. If it's true, I don't know if it's a good or bad thing because 3:00 You've been sequestered to sitting in a wreck house every day might get a little bit lonely, almost like Milton then as red stapler in the basement from the office space. But I guess it smells like bourbon, which is better than a basement so you got that going for you. All right, well back to the topic. The new solar array first began producing power for Maker's Mark in early February, and is expected to produce about 268,000 kilowatt hours per year. e commerce analytics company profit, tiro said that online alcohol sales could explode from anywhere to seven to $15 billion in the next few years, noting that e commerce is making an impact on just about every industry imaginable. And alcohol looks to be the next sector to be disrupted by the continued shift to digital. However, as we've been saying on this podcast time and time again, the three tier system is slowing this down and is dating the industry and an article by beverage daily calm. It looks at platforms such as drizzly go, puff and thirsty 4:00 brands can catch on and partner. It also goes into detail on how these brands can differentiate themselves and not be paired next to other brands that could be either cheaper or delivered in a shorter time period. You can read more with the link to beverage daily calm in our show notes. Last week at the inaugural us distilled spirits conference, Mitch McConnell offered no relief with the ongoing tariff dispute for American and foreign whiskey. The European Union is a key market export for Kentucky bourbon, and it imposed 25% tariffs on us whiskey in 2018. In response to us tariffs that Trump enacted on imported steel and aluminum. Now, late last year, the US left a 25% tariff on imports of single malt Irish and Scotch whisky liquors, and that also affected global companies like brown Forman and biagio that import these products to the US. Now I common excuses that the US whiskey industry has just been collateral damage in Trump's trade disputes. 5:00 And Chris Walker, President and CEO of the spirits council said that the industry hasn't lost hope and that the levees will be removed. And now there's even more coverage that the chief executives of the Scotch whisky Association and the distilled spirits Council of the United States are calling on the UK and US governments to urgently find a negotiated solution to unrelated trade disputes and remove all terrorists on distilled spirits. Have you ever wondered, why does whiskey taste like whiskey? Well, when we nose and taste bourbon, we get leather, caramel dried fruits, but it was never made with any of that. And a new article by Lou Bryson at The Daily Beast, he explores every step of the process and how flavors are derived with grains like rye and their spice in his character. Why using the same Nashville at two different distilleries will result in two different very whiskies. And then there's 5:55 an organic compound formed by bacteria that's found in Water Agency 6:00 And is responsible for that musty or earthy smell like some lake water, but can also be found in whiskey too. There's more talk about stills barrels, proofing and more and you can read all this with a link to the Daily Beast in our show notes. For today's podcast, Michael Myers tells a story of the starting distillery to 91 he had a career in photography in the events of 911 made him want to do something else. So like anything most of us want to venture into you research and research and research. Michael actually built his very first still on a tight budget ended up even using some his photography equipment in the still itself. The distillery has grown but that original still is used as as doubler today, from these humble beginnings, his whiskey has gone off to win many different awards, and now they're expanding into more and more states. The distillery is expanding itself and he's creating a whiskey that is asked when the state finished that he feels his 7:00 authentic to Colorado. We're currently doing our 2020 bourbon pursuit audience survey. So we want to know more about you, our listeners. So if you've got 30 seconds to spare, please visit bourbon pursuit.com slash 2020 survey. It really it only takes 30 seconds. We appreciate the time. Are it Showtime, here's Joe from barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char 7:28 it's Joe from barrel bourbon. In 2013. I launched barrel craft spirits without a distillery and defied conventional wisdom. To this day My team and I sourcing blend exceptional barrels from established producers and bottle a cast strength. Find out more at barrel bourbon calm. 7:44 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char. As I put the bullseye upon my lips for the first time, I could feel it tingling upon the bottom of my lip and the top. Once it hit my tongue it just overwhelm my palate with flavor 8:00 drenching down the bottom of my jaw line, tingling the sides of my tongue tingling the top of my palate. Just feel warming me all the way down. And you know what? It's not a bourbon. And it's not a rye. It's a blend of straights. It's a blend of straight rye whiskey and straight bourbon and it is motherfucking delicious. Right now I'm putting it as one of my contenders for whiskies of the year. You can see my full review on it on my YouTube page. But this, this whiskey and all the barrel releases and all these other blends that we have seen come out in recent years from from high West and barrel and numerous other you know, blending houses that are really doing a great job right now. They really are shaking up our traditions in American whiskey. You see the term blend used to be a really dirty word and American whiskey 9:00 ski and it all goes back to the 1800s when Canadian blenders were infiltrating the straight whiskey scene and undercutting the Kentucky bourbon distillers and putting their Canadian blends on the market and you know what consumers really, really liked them. And so it begins there and the Canadian whiskey distillers were trying to block the bottle and Bond Act of 1897. Of course, they were unsuccessful. The Canadian whiskey distillers also rise up again after prohibition, and they actually ironically tried to put bottled and bond on their label. Now, what's interesting is that the US government ended up terrifying their their whiskey to block them from using bottled and bond so that basically stopped them from using bottled and bond. But at that same time, American distillers did not have a lot of stocks from their left over from prohibition. So they actually had to use blends and 10:00 cells to get their brands out onto the market. And so you would see neutral grain spirit being added to, say, a four year old bourbon that had just been distilled a couple of few years ago. And that really kind of like people were like, ah, I really like blends, but this is all I got. And the straight bourbon distillers were just kind of reluctantly doing it, but they had to and so you couple that what they would later call rocket whiskey with the the the blended whiskey from from Canada, and you had distillers in the 1950s not even allowing the the word blend being used in their distilling house, and that's where the words mingle and marrying or born. And for every decade after that the Kentucky distillers especially, would call out blend as a dirty word and would not let people say putting two barrels to 11:00 Together was blending that was mingling. And so that's where those words come from is because people were never wanted to use the word blend in Kentucky distilleries. Now fast forward to 2020. You have a lot of new blood in the industry, a lot of new blood that does not care about old terms or old ways. They just want to put out great whiskey. And I got to tell you some of the more exciting whiskies that I have tasted in the past five years, our blends of straight whiskies. They are absolutely fantastic. But you will never, ever hear me say those words around the great Jimmy Russell. If you ask him, blend is still a dirty word. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, make sure you're checking out my new podcast the Fred Minix show where I interview musicians 12:00 And I pair whiskeys to their palate. I'm having a blast and coming up I've got an American Idol winner on the show. Until next week cheers 12:12 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon. Kinney and Ryan here in our official recording studio, which is deemed Kenny's basement. Yes, yeah. Where we shoot everything. Whiskey quickies the podcast unit Hey but you know we started get everything together we got lights we got cameras we got everything happened in here so it's fun for especially people that are either watching on YouTube or on Facebook or something like that and you want to get something different than just something audio only at least get a fancy background. Yeah, unfortunately for our guests, when they show up, they're like, damn it what you're in a house, like a recording studio. are gonna be we'll get another one of these days. One of these days. One of these days we'll get there you know, as much cooler sailors whiskey, I'm sure But well, we'll get the studio there one of these days. We'll get some sound panels and everything like that. That makes us feel a little bit more legit 13:00 But you know, today I'm really excited about our guests because this is a distillery that, you know, we've heard about, you know, we've read about it before and bourbon and banter and everything like that. He's even been a guest with Fred MiniK on his show on Youtube before and so now something in common. You know, Fred's the mutual connection here right here we go and then and so being able to have him on the show kind of talk about their stories stuff like that is you know, pretty exciting because anybody that isn't watching on TV he brought to find whiskeys for us to sit on here. So we got their their bourbon and their rye, which you might be hearing us sipping up throughout the show. Yes, and it's very highly decorated bottle. So tons of awards. And I just had it for the first time and I can see why. For a distiller this young, it seems like some pretty good, juicy got here. So I'm excited to hear the story and dive into how it got to this ball. 13:53 See, they put stickers on Oh, yeah, absolutely. So let's go ahead and introduce our guest. So today we have Michael Myers. 14:00 Michael is the founding distiller and CEO of distillery to 91 out of Colorado Springs. So Michael, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Glad to be here. Well, good. So you know, before we, you know, talk about the whiskey and the distillery let's kind of let's rewind the hands of time here kind of talk about your first introduction to bourbon or spirits or anything like that. Yeah, so the it's funny. The first time I drank whiskey that I remember was, we always have those stories, too. Yeah, I 14:31 was I was 18 and turn just turned 18 that day and went to a local bar with friend He must have been in Canada or something. 14:41 Now in Georgia, 14:43 close 18 That all changed but I went to bar and wanted to drink a whiskey and ordered Yukon jack, which was sort of the whiskey at the time. Sweet and now it's really not I mean, I think it's GNS what's 15:00 Some natural flavorings and stuff, but you would know better now I know konjac is a new one on me. It's from Canada. 15:08 That you said Yeah. And it's Yeah, it's a liquid. Gotcha now and so yeah with my friend Todd Hawkins and we had a lot of fun and drank you know, a shot of it and 15:23 and then probably the next time I mean, I was drinking jack jack daniels, as well later and then college. One of my worst experiences was super bowl and I had bought some really nice Crown Royal, moving up in the world and 15:40 and drank not a fifth but maybe 375 of that throughout the Super Bowl and just got so sick and actually woke up the next morning was like, I love whiskey. I am going to the bar and forcing myself to drink more whiskey so that I don't have that issue. 16:00 Where I can't smell that ever again. And so I did that day I got up that afternoon went to the bar and that first shot of whiskey was rough. can imagine you can even like try to like get a bloody or bloody married Atlanta your way in here though. No hair, the dog, and it was great. And now I make it. Yeah, that's one hell of a story. I know. That's like the most badass story I've ever heard. There's no way that I mean, I remember back in college and stuff like that. There was no way I get up after feeling hungover after a bad night and be like, I'm going for a gator, right? Like coconut water. I'm like, What can I do to feel better? I mean, back then everybody was drinking like Pedialyte, they would actually go and buy like, I'm guilty of that. There you go. It doesn't work. I think my times way before video. 16:48 Were salty. I was in Savannah, Georgia. They just kept drinking. 16:53 I was like, yeah, definitely different time we're searching for pedia lightnings like it just bring it up for us. 17:00 right now. 17:02 So let's kind of talk about more of like your history and stuff like that. So you were in Savannah, how long were you in Savannah? So I was in Savannah for school. I'm born and raised Georgia. With my summers spent in California. My mom lived out there since I was six. And so I went to about two different Yeah, ends of the spectrum, Georgia and California really different because we raised Tennessee walking horses, so and in middle school, we had 11 acres inside the perimeter and then moved out to Alpharetta with 70 acres and another 80 so we had horses and cows and all kinds of stuff. And I was given a camera when I was 15. My mom gave it to me and picked it up and never looked back. And so I went to Savannah College of Art and Design, believe it or not, that's where 291 comes from for me. So I my dorm room was 291 and after I moved in there I went school and learned in history. 18:00 class that the very first photo gallery ever was gallery 291 was in New York in 1907. And so I'm like, meant to be a photographer. And that's where 291 came from, which is my brand name. And that just those three numbers just have just stuck with you for forever. Yeah, as a I was a fashion beauty photographer for over 27 years and like for models are young ones. Yeah, very cool. Yeah. Mainly makeup beauty stuff, like Revlon. Clairol? Yeah, I still only know this because my wife's a cosmetology 18:33 Tiffany and company but I did shoot for this old house and Forbes FBI and what kind of cameras us Michael Jordan a Canon What do you know I shot with a Pentax six, seven, and it's a it's it's looks like a 18:49 35 millimeter that's on steroids. And so the negative is six millimeters by seven. So that's that's pretty big, almost playing card but a little smaller than that. 19:00 You guys are speaking a different language to me. I've tried, like, I've dabbled in a lot of things in photography. It was like one of them and it lasted for like two months. So I like it though. But it's collecting dust. Nice. Now just like iPhone, you know, I bought it right. That's everybody asked, Do you still do that? And I'm like, I have an iPhone. I mean, it's, it's in my pocket. It's all branded. I mean, it's, it looks like a phone. I'll show it to you afterwards. Yeah, that's what the sake is. Most people. You know, I remember when I had my first kid and, and they said, like, Oh, you've got to go out. You've got to buy an awesome camera. And, you know, here's your here's your cannons, your DSLRs. And I'm like, 19:37 I don't know if I'm going to be lugging this thing around with me everywhere we go. I just don't know if I'm gonna do it. But I remember I did look into it. I just never pulled the trigger on it. Yeah, yeah. good reason. Yeah. 19:47 I mean, if you're going to shoot, you might need it a better one. But family stuff. It's always been best. The camera in your hand or the camera in your pocket, because you'll get the image. It doesn't matter if it's hype. 20:00 quality or not putting you at least have the moment. Yeah. And that's what matters. I'm probably not gonna make it poster size when I was shooting. I'd be so focused on like getting a shot that I would forget the moment, you know, not being in the moment. That's why I was like, just doing my iPhone, but right. We're not here talking about cameras. No, no, but I want to hear a little bit more about the photography and like, because that seems like it was a pretty mean 20 years as you said that you were doing that right. 27 Yeah, yeah, I mean, so, so kind of talk about you've got to have some, at least some pretty funny stories or something good from those days, too. So I shot Angelina Jolie when she was 15. I have that picture on my 14 year old was. 20:39 And when she was 16. I shot her a couple of times. Some of my last clients were the Olsen twins. shot down. 20:46 Shot. 20:48 Like geeking out right now. She's like an Olsen twins. Yeah, so I had a really great career. It was still a struggle. It was you know, a lot of work and living in New York. 21:00 Not easy raising a family there and you know being a freelancer so as about to say so like the the dynamic of photography and freelancing versus making whiskey, like what Be honest what's more enjoyable now 21:16 making whiskey and how do you merge the tape? 21:20 I built my still out of photograph your plates. Okay. So a photograph of your plate is a flat copper plate you chemically edge an image in, you put ink on the plate, you put a piece of paper with it, run it through a press and you get an ink photograph. So I took those seven copper plates of different images from my life and water jet cut them took them and rolled them through a roller so that curve and then had a guy TIG weld it together. And that was that was my original still 45 gallon still. I had a 21:53 cask for the thump kegger doubler and I built a stripping still out of a 22:00 55 gallon gallon stainless drum. So you built this all yourself? I did. How do you do that? Like YouTube or something? Yes. I grew up on a farm I can build. Okay. I'm a redneck. Yeah. 22:15 And yeah, I mean, my story's intertwined with New York and 911 and then building this still. And the process of distillation reminds me the dark room. So that's where 291 came from, for the brand name for me, but I built that still and that still is the thump keg to my 300 gallons still that I built had built in Colorado Springs. So these these guys department of defense contractors, and they built things like titanium ball valve that's like 10 inches across four new killer sub, you know, valves and and nickel plate press not plate but nickel press rings for proposal. 23:00 tubes. And they're like, we like whiskey. Do you need a bigger still? And I'm like, Yeah, great. Sharon so gave them my plans and they built 300 gallons still that looks identical to mine. And the funny thing was, there's a little bit of pressure in a still like five pounds, but not much, but they were engineers. I went to art school. And they didn't believe me that it didn't need to be that thick. So they built it out of plate copper. So it is thick and heavy, but it's beautiful. It works really well too. So kind of talk about that, because you kind of intrigued me right there because I remember reading a little bit something about 911 and that happening and you couldn't get back to your apartment or something like that. And you kind of just had to move the family for a little bit kind of talk about that time. Yeah, so 911 we live three blocks from the World Trade Center. We lived on the corner of Warren and West Side Highway. And I was on granted and Dwayne with my son on my shoulders when the first plane flew over my older son 24:00 So they were four and five, my oldest son was in, in our building in ps 89, which is on the second floor, we lived on the 25th floor, and we had just dropped him off. My wife and I and my son walk into his class or his school, and that's when the first plane flew over. And so yeah, so everything that day was a crazy day, needless to say, spent the night on North more. 24:27 And then with seven families and then couldn't get back in our apartment, went to Long Island. Long story short, moved to Colorado for about nine months. I commuted move back to New York, was there a couple of years and it wasn't good for my family. So I said we'd move back you're still doing photography at this time? Yeah, I got to do in photography. And so we moved back and I commuted another four years full time, and then was just trying to figure out something else to do and still, like wrote some TV, worked on some movie stuff. 25:00 And just nothing really panning out. And I shot a vanity fair job in New York in August 2010 and on the way home read an article about the guy that created Sailor Jerry and Hendrix shin and he, you know, created an idea and branded it and all that somebody else made the juice form and I came back thinking wow, I could brand a whiskey you know, and and talk to a friend of mine, Mike Bristol, Bristol brewing. And he said, get your license and I'll try and help and so and then somebody else said why don't you try and make it because you can always hire somebody if you can't. And I'm like, they make it in the woods of Georgia. It can't be that hard. 25:41 And so I decided to build my still moved into 300 square feet. Got my DSP distilled spirit plant permit in April with I got it in four weeks from when I applied, which is amazing time. That's right takes us for 26:00 TTP doesn't move that fast anymore. And so I was in 300 square feet. I could make 60 gallons a month of Finnish whiskey that was working my butt off that was you know, 17 hour days seven days a week. Wow for talking about those like first attempts at making whiskey what's it like what do you do going into like are you reading a manual? Or how like are you just like going off like I'll travel knowledge and what will you do that? Yeah, he's got a he's got a landline to somebody with some some overalls on be like, No, you gotta tweak. You gotta move this. Yeah, so I'd never brewed beer. And I'd never distilled until I started this in my first distillation true. Finished distillation was September 11 2011. 26:42 My still the guy, TIG welding it together finished it after it took him all summer to get started on it. finished it September 9, and so I waited for that to remake that anniversary. And yeah, during that time, I read YouTube blogged everything. I 27:00 Heard about how you make whiskey. And and it is funny. The one thing that I do say is I watched popcorn Sutton's documentary, the original one. And in there, there's a point where he talks about taking, he takes a stick and the worms there. And he puts the stick in the end of it and lets it balance. And he says, if the whiskey is thicker than the stick coming off, it's fighting whiskey. So from that I learned you need to run it really slow to make really good whiskey. And there's other things that I learned books, I read things, and I love to cook and I love the dark room. And so I really feel that was like my home brewing experience. Putting those two things together to get to make whiskey. So are there any other like outsiders or consultants that you leaned on to kind of pick their brains or kind of guide you along? Or is it totally just you? Totally me? That's cool. How did you know you weren't gonna like blow up the place? Like, you know, just, I don't know, you know, there's a lot of pressure on 28:00 Nice other like five pounds pressure but yeah run high. That seems like a lot of back and happen. I knew that it was an open system so as long as you don't plug the system you're good and and as long as you keep cooling the steam coming off the still, you're okay but if that water stops 28:21 that can be a problem. Yeah, there was one point where that happened for me and it was a mess and 28:29 I think there was a room full of 160 proof steam all wrapped around me and I was just like, okay, let's calm down. slow this down. Yeah, and I just I read a lot I paid attention to what how it was supposed to work and and did it that way. The funny thing is, is I steam heated everything. So I put a steam coil in my mash tun that also was my stripping still with a different top on it and a column and then my finish still had a steam code. 29:00 illinit and I bought a home steam unit for steam shower. And I first time I hit the button that came on, it was all hooked up. I'd like to say we're like close from 29:11 anywhere. Close. That's funny. 29:15 And so I hit the button, went to take notes for a little bit about an hour later the day turned off. And I'm like, What? walked over there looked at everything. It was heat hot and push the button and came back on. I'm like, great, literally an hour later cut off again. And I was like, Damn, it's a home steam unit. It's got an automatic off on it. So literally for the next two and a half years. 29:42 Every run from 29:45 finish run stripping to mashing then I had to reset that button every 45 minutes. Gosh, that's awesome. It sounds terrible. 29:56 So I'd run home cooked dinner. That's like the great bootstrapping story. 30:00 Like somebody just like going in and just giving it their all and like figuring it out. I don't know. It's pretty cool. That's right. And I'd go home cooked dinner, come back, push the button, go home eat dinner, go to the liquor store and make a sale come back push the button go back to another store to settle alarm on your phone. 30:18 Reset, Steve, I know 45 minutes pretty good now. 30:24 Somebody goes up how the wind take their 45 minutes. Don't worry, I got that. I got 30:30 I mean, that's that's it isn't it is impressive story of being able to go and learn and actually build it yourself. You know, it's like, it's like most of the people that you know, you say like, Oh, you wanna write a book on something? Or if you're if you want to learn something, right, write the book on it or do whatever it is to actually learn how to do it from the inside out. And, you know, you could go to moonshine you and you can learn and look and be able to like look at it but mean you you really like dope the pieces that actually made this all together. I did and moonshine you wasn't around at that time. 31:00 And there wasn't a lot It was mainly have gone if it was already just done it yourself. 31:06 That's an interesting question. I probably wouldn't have. So when I went to buy a still, that's why I built my own Vendome had a 55 gallon or 50 gallons still, that was like $50,000 I'm like, I don't have that money. I've never made this stuff. How What? So I, 31:25 I decided to build my own. So that probably the same with 31:30 moonshine, you probably would have been expensive. I wasn't sure. You know. Yeah. So just, you know, just wing it. Looking at your best, right, I guess then talk a little bit more about because I think one thing that's interesting here was you're talking about your copper plates that you use that you you took and then if I understood correctly, you said you rolled it out thin enough that you could then kind of form it and build your still so didn't roll it out. It was fairly thin copper. It is then copper. I mean, it's it's rigid. 32:00 But you roll it just to curve it to put the curve in it. So 32:05 that's why you roll it not not squeezing the copper out. But the etchings are still on the still you can see them when you go and take a tour. It's pretty amazing. But yeah, I just 32:19 researched it. Not everybody can take weld copper, and I found a man that was an amazing welder. Another God guy that could could take weld copper and did really nice job with it. So and talk about the design a little because I know we've had we've had Vendome on the show before. And you know, they they talk about all the crazy designs and you go You mean you go to anywhere like you see the different steel boxes, you see the different ways that people are putting it I mean, it could be a spatial issue could be a bunch of different ways. But you know, unless you're doing a copper pot still everybody more it's a column still but everybody's is a little bit different, a little bit unique. So kind of talk about how you came to the design of what yours was. 33:00 Going to be so mine's a copper pot still, there's no plates in it at all. The only sort of plate is the thumb keg. So that kind of works as a what plates do and still. And that design I found on the web. Somebody had built one and I was like, that's really cool. And I designed it more how I needed it. But the the design of the still, there's a secret behind that. I figured it out. 33:29 I'm a visual person and I just I found a few stills that I liked and came up with a concept and idea and how, what the sizes should be and drew it out. So I had in high school I had 11 quarters of mechanical drafting. So I'm not great at it now because it's that's a long time ago, but I can draw that like AutoCAD or before was AutoCAD. Like pencil and paper. 33:58 T square Yeah. 34:00 Exactly with a maybe a compass compass. Exactly. tractor. Exactly. And that's what I did. I drew it out, I bought a drawing board, which is a piece of soft wood, thick, you know board and I bought paper and drew it out. I still have those drawings of it. I actually drew a limbic still first. And it's a really beautiful drawing, but I never went that direction. I went with the pot still. So how about you said vinden was 50,000 How much was your homemade $500? Wow. The cost savings? Yeah. All the parts I you know, I sourced all of it. That's not with my time in it or anything like that. But sure, yeah. Where'd you get all the parts like Craigslist or? Pretty much? No. Granger, actually. Okay. 34:46 A lot of parts on there. They have more stuff than you'll ever know. Yeah. You're like, do you have this and like, yeah, and I'm like, What? You'll have that too. So yeah. Craigslist would be a better story though. I know. 34:59 In search of 35:01 Such of a doubler misconnection where's my doubler? Yeah, so I guess um, you know so we're talking right now about making your still and making white dog and and kind of talk about what was that next progression of it so he's shown us the the picture of it right now so yeah, that's it is it's an exact replica of your of your original. It's really cool. Oh, that's awesome. That's really cool. So making white dog here at the very beginning so were you were you thinking like okay like I'm gonna make whiskey I'm gonna make bourbon or was it just like, what was the kind of like your end goal that you had in mind. So I set out to 91 Colorado whiskey, I set out to make a Western whiskey whiskey that you would walk into a bar and a Western asked for, you know, whiskey, walk up, the bartender finds a Western whiskey for you. So mine is a Colorado whiskey and it's big, bold and beautiful, like the state of Colorado. Okay, so 35:58 and they slam the bottle down. It'd be too 36:00 91 and you know, get to drink it and you have a deal afterwards. Yeah, exactly. And so I love rye whiskey before I made my own Thomas handy was my favorite. So both these my rye and my bourbon are my original recipes. The bourbon is changed slightly. It's 80% corn 19% modify 1% malt barley. It started out at 20 mile rye, and that's because Mike Bristol had a bag of corn 50 pound bag of corn, and it was over a weekend I wanted mashin. So I went to the homebrew shop and bought I was looking for a ride. They only had Ryan mall. I'm like great, I need them all to convert. So I did that mashed in and ran that. I ran that on a very small I stripped it and then ran it on a very small Olympic still. And that was truly my first distillation ever. And then the next distillation and I have all these notes written down with the dates on it and everything. 37:00 The next Captain's log. Yeah. Yeah, the ttv you have to a lot, you know, and I didn't I didn't have any money. I wasn't doing any, you know, computer stuff. So I was handwriting notes in the notebook. And they're funny to go through because I talked about, you know what I'm doing distillation, but I also talked about my son's running cross country that day, or an event I was going to or what was going on in my life throughout these days. So it's kind of cool to look back. It's all chicken scratch scribbled scratched out spellings wrong, you know, all that good stuff we need to do today. Like why the fuck is this? 37:40 What the hell is wrong with this mash? Yeah. Or, Oh, that smells like throw up. That is not good. Yeah. But that is gold because you can always look back on that and be like, this is where I started and always kind of bring you back to that. That is awesome. Yeah. And we go back to it actually. There's another mash in there. That is a 38:00 Special release comes out, usually in October. It's called bad guy. And that was my third recipe. And we we went back a couple of years ago because the newer bad guy wasn't tasting the same as the old bad guy and so we went back and read the recipe in the directions and 38:21 bad guy came from so I did as a single barrel for restaurant and I had done this mash to try I hadn't experimented so I was going to experiment and bad guys a four grain we did bourbon and when it came up still I was like, that is really good white dog. I mean, was sweet, amazing. And I put it in a in a tank and was waiting and was supposed to have already mashed in for this other one for the restaurant. And I got behind and I needed the cash and so I was like, you know I got the that one in the in the tank over there. I'll just 39:00 Cell it so I called him to come hammer the bong it's done, put it in there hammered the button. He was talking to his son on the phone who was like four. He's like, what should I call it? And his son goes bad guy. 39:12 And I was like, Oh, damn, and 39:16 so he he year later, when the whiskey was coming out of the barrel, I'm like, what are we gonna name it? And he goes, I don't know. And I'm and I had written on the barrel bad guy, so I didn't forget. And I'm like, you gotta call it bad guy. We got to call it bad guy. And he's like, No, I don't know. And then I talked him into it finally. And so that's why it's bad guy bourbon to 91 bad guy bourbon, very cool store grand weeded bourbon, you have a lot of cool stories. 39:46 Just sit back and listen, not just keep talking. I'll shut up. 39:50 I mean, kind of talk about that a little bit as as you were, you know, how much do you producing and what kind of you know at that time like what kind of barrels you putting them in like a 40:00 Talk about that process to 40:05 with the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital of the world. They're known for the popular fusion series, however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that is in finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rack house whiskey club rack house whiskey club is a whiskey a month club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Their December box features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series and a 200 milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merch 41:00 side. And as always with this membership shipping is free. Get your hands on some early release Bardstown bourbon by signing up at rack house whiskey club.com use code pursuit for $25 off your first box 41:15 How much do you producing and what kind of you know at that time like what kind of barrels you putting them in like kind of talk about that process too. So the barrel mill, I found them online somehow and they were fairly new out of Avon, Minnesota. And so I called them they would FedEx me a barrel. So I'm like that works. You know, everybody else wants to sell you a palette 41:38 palette. 41:40 There's a funny story about palette too. And so I just bought a barrel and would fill it up and and I had a few barrels in that 300 square foot space. And I'd harvest it and hand bottle and label it and go out and sell it. So the very beginning here kind of talk about what's your because I remember you said you were doing would you say 42:00 50 6060 gallons in a week, right is my month, a month, a month. And that took that took, you know, six. So my fermentation tanks were 55 gallon Pepsi, you know, plastic drums with the top cut off. And so it would take, I'd mashin six. So I could do two matches in a day. So that's three days, I could strip two in a day. So that's three days of stripping, and it would yield about 3540 gallons of low wines and at 35% or so and then I'd finish on it and it would I end up with like 15 gallons. And so in a you know, in a month period, I had 60 gallons to put in barrels. So I mean talk about it, like as we talked to, we talked a big boys right and they're pumping out that in 20 minutes, right? I mean, 42:54 yeah. So kind of talk about you know, like, you know, where where did you kind of see yourself 43:00 Like, were you like, this is awesome. Like, this is fun. I'm having fun with this, or you like I'm in, I'm in over my head, like kind of talk about what was going through your mind at that time. It was amazing. So when it first came out still and I tasted it, and I had a friend that was a bartender, phenomenal bartender, Nate Windham, and he would taste it. And he's like, Damn, that's really good white dog. And so he had a couple of cocktails that he was using some white dog that was on the, on the shelf at the time. And he just started trading out with my white dog and my fresh. And I always say if, if it came off, and it had been a grind to figure out the recipe, and it wasn't that good coming off, it would have been, it would have been a lot harder. But when it was that good, and Nate was already making cocktails with it, it was like, all right, this is working, and I could taste it and tell. And so but I mean, the whole process, you know, you've got to make those tale cuts and that's, that's the art of distillation. And I didn't know anything and so 44:00 That was made me nervous, you know, what are you going to do how you're going to do this? And so 44:06 in my processes of photographers solving problems, you know, the, the head cut is easy, it's a percentage, or you can taste the difference really quickly. It also drops improved quite a bit at head cut, and then you got ethanol coming off and then tail it's like where do you stop as a distiller the art of distilling, where do you stop and so when it started dropping and proof, I decided to take you know, a quart mason jar and and collect it every 10 proof and then go back, you know, I had the main amount of ethanol but here I had tails coming off. And I just decided started tasting them and deciding where, how much I would put back into, you know, the ethanol that had already come off. 44:56 And so that's that's how I figured out my cut. 45:00 Yeah, and we got to make sure you pick up the cuts cuz well that should make you go blind if you get it wrong. That's the that's the head cut. There you go okay. acetone, methanol and all that that comes off first loser, high, high alcohols that have a low boiling point. So were you like cash flow in this with your photographer photography? What the photographer you're you've only had one port right now get it I'll spit it out. Get it out your photography, photography career was it paying for your gosh what can I say that photography career? I just did it 45:38 photogra man 45:41 was your photography career was this kind of fuel in this baby or were you just like out on your you know on your own trying to make this work. I know my photography was not. I did do a design job for for charity. They were trying to save 46:00 The hospital from being sold to large corporation. And so they had this whole campaign they wanted. And so I designed and did commercials and did all kinds of stuff for it. So it paid me really well. So I use that money to start to 91. Gotcha. And to go back to the original distillation and all that, you know, when I started making to 91 I wanted to be Colorado and kind of branded and so it we haven't talked about that, but it's 291 Colorado bourbon or 291, Colorado rye whiskey, and it's Aspen state finished. So I take toasted pieces Aspen, pop the bung on the barrel, put the Aspen in the oak barrel, and for the last few weeks, we finish it on Aspen. admins are the trees that guys may turn yellow, but they don't lose their leaves. Is that right? No, they they lose. Okay, they've turned yellow and red. They're really beautiful. Yeah. 47:00 Why we only Aspen reference I knows we the dumbing down. Oh, yeah, yeah. So talking about City College. 47:07 So the way I figured that out was I wanted to ask been on the label I, I took some aspirin, toasted it, put it in a mason jar with some Finnish whiskey and was riding to Boulder with a friend that was about a two hour drive. And I just shook the mason jar. And when I got up to Boulder I had, you know, some of the original and then what it tasted like on Aspen and I'm like, that's good. And so that's where that came from. That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool. What's what is it about Aspen that's different from Oak that kind of gives it some different. It's there. So for me it it pushes common notes to maple and it adds a little spice to it and a little smoke. This rye has a beautiful color on it by the way too. I need to try the wrap the porcelain arriving on the nose on the rise really good. I love it. So it's one on 1.7 48:00 proof. 48:01 The bourbon was 100 proof 48:04 and how long you, you agencies and what type and how big of the containers and everything like that. Let's get let's get into it for that was all there. It's all secret. Yep. Oh gosh, man. Guess we had to go on a tour to find out. 48:21 So it's American oak barrels deep charred. We age a year to two years. Right now, you know the ride that you're talking about in 2018 one world's best ride from whisky magazine. It also won America's best in 2016 from World whiskey magazine. And then that's an interesting thing that in that 300 square foot space, my barrel number two of this rye got 94 points from Jim Murray's whiskey Bible. Congratulation. Thank you and and we have seven liquid gold from Jim Murray. 49:00 six different recipes. So it's been so Jim Murray's a fan of you. Yeah, I'm a fan of his He's great. His tasting notes are amazing. I don't know if you've ever read any we haven't had him on the show yet. We'll get him on we'll get him there probably much more elaborate than ours. I'm like tastes like smores are 49:19 or always try relating to our breakfast cereal you know like cocoa Chris for Count chocula I don't notice that you do you do a lot of cereals Don't you know I get a lot of cereal like when you're a kid. You get a lot of those cereal notes with it with the milk one of our Bourbons has a it's a char high rye. It has a cherry fund up 49:41 to it. It says it says he's that one now. You know fun dips that powdery my kids so it's like dry. And so the high proof of it make its cherry but it dries out just like fund up it's really funny. So yeah, you can find my my distill. 50:00 Eric jet had one whiskey and he's like, you know, it's like that. That dusty old Poncho and team was like, What are you talking about? And what were you on at that time? It's not your grandma's attic you know there is a note sometimes that dryness Yeah, you know that musty old basement. musty old isn't good but yeah dusties not so bad. Because it's the dryness part have tasted like, like you talked about cherry funded like grape Kool aids like, you know, the manufacturer grape flavors, you know, like, I get, like, come out a lot. Yeah, a lot. Talk about today's operation. So, so you're you're you're the founding distiller sounds like you're not distilling anymore, but kind of talk a little bit more about, you know, what the size of the operation is the people if you're still doing you know, 60 gallons in a month or if you're if you're if you progress so kind of talk about that. Yeah, I wouldn't be here if I 50:55 guess I don't like only bottles. 50:59 Well, that was interesting. 51:00 Same thing was like 2016 when I sent whiskey magazine, they needed two bottles and I had to pay money and and I was like, I don't have that much whiskey. So that's why it took me a while to start putting in awards. But all my tanks, the 55 gallon drums, the fermentation tanks, my stripping still. I mean, yeah 55 gallon drums have all moved up to 1500 gallons, including the stripping still. I showed you that picture has the 300 gallon finished still in it. All the whiskey still goes across the original still as the thump keg. we distill twice a week, and we're producing about 240 finished gallons a week right now. We're working on some barrel financing to add the first of the year that will move up to producing five days a week. And we are right now. I've been in 7500 Square Feet for six years. Wow. 52:00 That's hard to believe. 52:02 And we are moving within a year we will be in a campus with 28,000 square feet, four different buildings. One will be a distillation building the other one will be fermentation, barrel storage and then tasting room. So you just you're looking at it like this. Let's keep investing into this growing and bigger and bigger and bigger. Yeah, I mean, we did 20 609 liter cases last year. Sold and and we've produced the year before 20 609 liter cases. And so we're selling everything we make. 95% of it is in Colorado. We just opened Kentucky this week. We're in 27 Kroger stores in Kentucky and it's going really well. But we could sell more if we had it and that's what we're working on. But we still the quality we are. It does not come out of the barrel until it's ready. 53:00 What's it like coming to Kentucky is it like coming to Kentucky to play basketball you know like we got faced the Wildcats when you're coming to Kentucky you don't face all the big boys environment is that daunting or you like Bring it on. 53:14 I don't know that it's daunting. The community's amazing. And that's the great thing. Everybody I meet is incredibly helpful. Even Fred MiniK he's he's the one that helped Kroger. So by introducing me to, to the buyer, and you know nothing about this rod tasted very familiar. Not had it at Fred's office. He goes, this is the next big distillery 53:40 because the smoking is that or reminds me of when I had it. So anyway, side note. 53:46 Yeah, so it's been amazing. I mean, at the one of the awards thing, Jeff Barnett, one master distiller jack daniels, Master distiller and I went up to talk 54:00 Cuz you want to say hello, you know, right oh my god, and he was the nicest man and we got talking, and he's from Jackson, Tennessee where my brother lives that's a surgeon. And we had a family farm in Shelbyville, which is which flat Creek, Tennessee, which was seven miles from jack daniels, seven miles to deckle. So I told him that and we really hit it off. And then my brother was doing a charity didn't know I had met Jeff, but knew he was from Jackson and reached out to him to do a tasting of the charity. And because he was from Jackson, he did it. And my brother called me and said, You know, that's who's coming. And I was like, Oh, I just met him. And he's like, wow. And so I went with my brother's friend, our partner that had a twin prop plane, and we flew from Jackson to tullahoma and picked up Jeff, and literally when I walked off the plane, he was walking up on the tarmac, and he's like, hey, Michael, how's it going? And I mean, I hadn't met him once in person, but he knew 55:00 who I was and was, it was amazing and we've become friends. I texted him all the time. I'm going to go see him tomorrow. The first time I went to jack, you know, shortly after that charity, he said, Come down, I'll show you around and and he put me in his personal truck. And he said, What do you want to see? He said, whatever you want to see, I'll show you anything. And that's amazing. And there's gonna be respect because Jeff's had everything he's awesome as to but you gotta check company like jack daniels get every resource imaginable to you whereas you kind of had no resources and made it work. So there's got to be something that you both can learn from each other. I yes. And he's alluded to that and is very respectful that I make a Colorado whiskey and and you know, that's the thing. I love Kentucky bourbon, I love Tennessee whiskey. I love all kinds of scotch Irish whiskey, but I'm not looking to make a Kentucky bourbon and Colorado. My bourbon my whiskey, my rye are to be done. 56:00 Different big bold, beautiful of my brand there's a few names but one's rugged refined rebellious, we also hard made the Colorado way. And then another tagline is 56:15 write it like you stole it, drink it like you own it. Nice like it. So, you know that's what I set out to do this and and it's been amazing 56:25 i mean i think it's it's had a pretty warm reception right and congratulations for coming to Kentucky you know this is it's a it's a big step this nationals feet. Definitely, definitely. And not only that is you know, talking to you about the progression of where it is or where it was to what it is today. It's everything comes with with growing pains too, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So kind of talk about at least Did you have a specific time of growing here that you're like, Okay, like, I wish was just me and the 60 gallons. 56:57 So, the one thing about being a photographer 57:00 Consistently you have to build teams of people especially doing fashion. So hair makeup, you know stylist, model, all that kind of stuff location that was helpful for me in in growing this and finding people that could help me grow it. So I have a team of about 13 people right now. It's an amazing team they do phenomenal work. But yeah, there were there were times and there's still times you know, I'm bootstrapping it. So there's tight times with money there's tight times with barrels not being ordered. panic, you know, bottle panic, you know things like that when I first started that was something I wanted to mention earlier about a palette to get not this bottle but my original bottle which is similar this but this one came along when I could buy 30,000 or promise I'd buy 30 Yeah, promise but this one I could buy a pallet of and my mom had given me a cooler and at some point and enjoy 58:00 Grant is an ounce of gold. And thank you for explaining that because I was about to say I have no idea what you're talking Yeah, it's a South African coin. And so I was making whiskey in that 300 gallon I needed a bottle they were they give me a better price if I bought a pallet or or to buy the bottle I had to buy a pallet and gold was up expensive than and I literally took that Cougar and cashed it in and bought a pallet of bottles 58:28 and was able to put them in that 300 square foot space I built I built shelves and made it where you know they weren't really in the way and it was kind of crazy but so there are growing pains. I mean you know i the most nervous I've been that I can remember is working on this move for this. You know 20,000 square feet. It's It's big. We We won't renovate it and build it out beautiful with for production line facility. 59:00 We're going to move in with what we have now and grow it like I did from the 300 to the 7500 square foot that worked really well. But we have a our model is a ramp. I mean, it's a it's a steep curve. And so we have a lot to get done in the next four years with making whiskey and, you know, there there are growing pains. It is not easy. There hasn't been a day where I was like, Oh my god, I'm not going to the distillery I give up. I'm done from day one to now. There's never that's never crossed my mind. Yeah, that's awesome. At least that means you're loving it. Yeah, I guess it. You don't have to think of the Olsen twins and they still need me. Right? 59:43 Yeah, that's a funny thing. I broke out a box of Polaroids. So, back in the day before digital, you were doing light test and stuff you used a Polaroid back on the camera. So you would take the picture of strobes go off and you pull the Polaroid Wait a minute, and then 1:00:00 like pushing that button every 40 and you peel it and you'd look at light so I have I kept most of those Polaroids I've got boxes of them and I opened one up the other day and there's some just really beautiful pictures in it showed it to a friend and they were like oh my god you got to start shooting again I'm like I don't know that that's happening but I did reach out to a hairdresser friend and a couple of them at the time with the Polaroids and posted on Instagram with it and hadn't talked to them in years 10 years and they're like what's up and it was really great makes me want to maybe try one day and who knows but not union at the distillery was like oh here's a great you know all your photography client car I got a photography clients and you know, bring them to your distillery like wonder now party this party There we go. But these you can get bottle shots done on the cheap, right you can do those. That's the funny thing. I don't shoot my bottle. Really you don't don't okay jars while you're here. 1:01:00 I shoot on with the iPhone for like in situation but to set them up and shoot them. I mean I can do it no problem but I'm a little too close to the product and also it's a different frame of mind and to get in that frame of mind it would take me a few days or week I'm working with the bottles and stuff to get the light and and it's just easier to for me to pick somebody and go I like his pictures and I can direct what I want from there and so that Yeah, I you know you coming from a photography background and you know, we're all kind of like doing a lot of stuff with whiskey and and I remember I talked to somebody about doing bottle photography and I'm like you charge what like to take a picture of bottle i mean it's it's something that I had no idea that even existed before then so it's a it's it's a really cool that you kind of have you can blend a lot of these worlds together and you know how to direct and stuff like that because I'd be like, I don't know a river in the background like you tell me what looks cool. 1:02:00 Yeah, and I have a business partner in New York. Or we were in a retouching company, Russ gun lack. And he, he still retouches. He's an amazing retoucher. And so I sent him stuff all the time. I mean, funny things, but I send him bottle shots and, and I can direct him and I can I can take a bottle, you know, if it was shot in the same light and have him put it like five bottles in one picture very easily and stuff like that. So I understand how to do that. So that's where I, you know, I can direct it and get it done on the cheap. I mean, everybody else that would cost them a ton of money. 1:02:41 But But I did, we were at a tasting and there was an airplane behind me and had a callsign number on the side of it. It's old, you know, World War Two type plane with that block number. And I took a iPhone picture of it and send it to Russ text it to him and said can you change that to 291 1:03:00 Literally 30 minutes later it came back to me on my phone and it was perfect. I'm like Yep, there you go awesome and posted it and people like out to 91 and I also did it this summer on a bowl. The brand on a bull somebody It was like 301 and I asked him to do 299 on it and they're like, I didn't see that bowl with that brand. 1:03:21 It's really funny. That's good to know people I guess. So I guess kind of last question before we start wrapping this up is you know, you've you said 95% in Colorado, you're growing to Kentucky I'm sure that you've got plans to even go beyond their kind of talk about you know, one last thing that you want to kind of leave listeners with as they are looking at another or walk in the store. They see your bottle and then maybe they hear this like what's one thing you want to leave them with? I want them to enjoy my whiskey. There's the funny thing I I drink my whiskey neat. It's rare. I drink it on the rocks, but I I also in the summer, or when I feel like it I drink my bourbon with 1:04:00 Mountain Dew. I drink my ride with lemonade and my only person I know it does as my dad. It makes it it's amazing drink and it's a nice drink summer drink. Yeah, and I want to drink bourbon. I also drink. I don't drink vodka Bloody Marys. I drink rye Bloody Marys. And those are phenomenal. But I want somebody to try my whiskey. I wanted to take them back to Western days and enjoy it and it it's an unapologetic whiskey. It's it's a big bold whiskey, and 1:04:33 I'm really proud of it. The other thing that we didn't talk about is the cage that's on there. So when I was young, there was a the cork and cage cage holds the cork and when I was young, I'd watch TBS in the morning and saturday morning cartoons and then if it rained, the later it got old movies Come on. And there was an old movie where they were transporting nitroglycerin in a wagon, and they had wired all the bottles in 1:05:00 So it wouldn't bounce. And when I started making high proof whiskey, I'm like, we got to wire the cork on. And so that's where that cage comes from. Gotcha. Gotcha. Now we know there's a story to everything. Really. There is my watch. Yeah. My watch is my dad's watch. And every time I shake it down, it reminds me of home. Yeah, go. Cool. Very cool. Well, Michael, thank you again for coming over here coming on the show. And of course, sharing your whiskey with us. I think it's an incredible story of what you've built and the team that's building this and you know, the direction it's going as well. I think everybody's pretty excited for really the future of what this is going to entail for you. Thank you. Same here, Kenny and Ryan. very appreciated to be on the show. And yeah, that's, you know, we have experimental batch called the E. We love to experiment. I love making my whiskey. I love selling it. I love giving it away to people to try it. tastings and even people I meet give them a bottle. 1:06:00 Cuz they'll share it. And I love that. So I really appreciate today. Thank you guys. Absolutely Yeah, no, thank you for coming. It was a true inspiration. I mean, most companies we have on air even if they're new they go out and get big time investments or you know, get a lot of cash flow to back them up and like to hear somebody just go source parts from Craigslist, not kidding. But, uh, just, you know, just wanting to do something and find a way to like, make it happen is like, It's so inspiring to me. I think it's a very cool story and I'm excited for the brand. It's, gosh, the rise awesome. I love the really good things like thanks so much. But uh, yeah, it's, um, it was a pleasure talking to you and hearing all your stories, for sure. I'd be a part of it. Absolutely. And so make sure you follow distiller to 91 on all the social medias. give a shout out as well as your address where people can go and visit 1647 South 200 Street, Colorado Springs, Colorado. And o

In this episode of Let’s Talk Shop I speak with Hazel and Jimmy Russell from The Wood Life Project. I have had the pleasure of working with Hazel and Jimmy and I really love their thoughtful products I really admire how they have built their business over the last year.What really hit me while I was editing this podcast is just how much they have achieved in just one year, from incorporating in January 2019 to finding a manufacturer, changing manufacturer, exhibiting at a tradeshow and being stocked in around 30 stores in less than 12 months, it’s truly inspiring and in this episode, we talk all about how they achieved this.-Why Hazel and Jimmy decided to start a business, how they came up with an idea and what has been instrumental in making this reality.-The biggest challenges and surprises they have come across during their first year in business.-How not knowing everything might have helped them rather than hindered them.-How it was to exhibit at a trade show for the first time, speak to stockists and buyers and what they have learned.-The importance of providing good customer service to their stockists, big and small retailers. Connect with The Wood Life ProjectWebsite: https://www.thewoodlifeproject.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewoodlifeproject/  Links mentioned in this episodeMean Mail: https://www.meanmail.co/And Create: https://www.and-create.com/Friends of Jules: https://www.joules.com/friends/The%20Wood%20Life%20ProjectNot on the high street: https://www.notonthehighstreet.com/thewoodlifeprojectMama Brown and Co: https://mamabrown.co.uk/collections/tablewareVeronica Dearly: https://veronicadearly.com/Holly Tucker: https://holly.co/Conversations of inspiration: https://holly.co/podcast/Julie Deane, The Cambridge Satchel Co: https://www.cambridgesatchel.com/Will Jones, The Black Farmer: https://www.theblackfarmer.com/Healeys: https://healeys-printers.co.uk/Top Drawer: https://www.topdrawer.co.uk/Darren Harper from Tech Velocity: https://www.techvelocity.co.uk/  FREE Webinar – Get started with wholesalehttps://www.smallbusinesscollaborative.co.uk/webinar Connect with meWebsite: https://www.smallbusinesscollaborative.co.uk/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/small_business_collaborative/ Apply to be a guest on season 3 of Let’s Talk Shophttps://thereseoertenblad.typeform.com/to/ZPiHVX  

In this episode of Let’s Talk Shop I speak with Hazel and Jimmy Russell from The Wood Life Project. I have had the pleasure of working with Hazel and Jimmy and I really love their thoughtful products I really admire how they have built their business over the last year.What really hit me while I was editing this podcast is just how much they have achieved in just one year, from incorporating in January 2019 to finding a manufacturer, changing manufacturer, exhibiting at a tradeshow and being stocked in around 30 stores in less than 12 months, it’s truly inspiring and in this episode, we talk all about how they achieved this.-Why Hazel and Jimmy decided to start a business, how they came up with an idea and what has been instrumental in making this reality.-The biggest challenges and surprises they have come across during their first year in business.-How not knowing everything might have helped them rather than hindered them.-How it was to exhibit at a trade show for the first time, speak to stockists and buyers and what they have learned.-The importance of providing good customer service to their stockists, big and small retailers. Connect with The Wood Life ProjectWebsite: https://www.thewoodlifeproject.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewoodlifeproject/  Links mentioned in this episodeMean Mail: https://www.meanmail.co/And Create: https://www.and-create.com/Friends of Jules: https://www.joules.com/friends/The%20Wood%20Life%20ProjectNot on the high street: https://www.notonthehighstreet.com/thewoodlifeprojectMama Brown and Co: https://mamabrown.co.uk/collections/tablewareVeronica Dearly: https://veronicadearly.com/Holly Tucker: https://holly.co/Conversations of inspiration: https://holly.co/podcast/Julie Deane, The Cambridge Satchel Co: https://www.cambridgesatchel.com/Will Jones, The Black Farmer: https://www.theblackfarmer.com/Healeys: https://healeys-printers.co.uk/Top Drawer: https://www.topdrawer.co.uk/Darren Harper from Tech Velocity: https://www.techvelocity.co.uk/  FREE Webinar – Get started with wholesalehttps://www.smallbusinesscollaborative.co.uk/webinar Connect with meWebsite: https://www.smallbusinesscollaborative.co.uk/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/small_business_collaborative/ Apply to be a guest on season 3 of Let’s Talk Shophttps://thereseoertenblad.typeform.com/to/ZPiHVX  

In this episode of Let’s Talk Shop I speak with Hazel and Jimmy Russell from The Wood Life Project. I have had the pleasure of working with Hazel and Jimmy and I really love their thoughtful products I really admire how they have built their business over the last year.What really hit me while I was editing this podcast is just how much they have achieved in just one year, from incorporating in January 2019 to finding a manufacturer, changing manufacturer, exhibiting at a tradeshow and being stocked in around 30 stores in less than 12 months, it’s truly inspiring and in this episode, we talk all about how they achieved this.-Why Hazel and Jimmy decided to start a business, how they came up with an idea and what has been instrumental in making this reality.-The biggest challenges and surprises they have come across during their first year in business.-How not knowing everything might have helped them rather than hindered them.-How it was to exhibit at a trade show for the first time, speak to stockists and buyers and what they have learned.-The importance of providing good customer service to their stockists, big and small retailers. Connect with The Wood Life ProjectWebsite: https://www.thewoodlifeproject.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewoodlifeproject/  Links mentioned in this episodeMean Mail: https://www.meanmail.co/And Create: https://www.and-create.com/Friends of Jules: https://www.joules.com/friends/The%20Wood%20Life%20ProjectNot on the high street: https://www.notonthehighstreet.com/thewoodlifeprojectMama Brown and Co: https://mamabrown.co.uk/collections/tablewareVeronica Dearly: https://veronicadearly.com/Holly Tucker: https://holly.co/Conversations of inspiration: https://holly.co/podcast/Julie Deane, The Cambridge Satchel Co: https://www.cambridgesatchel.com/Will Jones, The Black Farmer: https://www.theblackfarmer.com/Healeys: https://healeys-printers.co.uk/Top Drawer: https://www.topdrawer.co.uk/Darren Harper from Tech Velocity: https://www.techvelocity.co.uk/  FREE Webinar – Get started with wholesalehttps://www.smallbusinesscollaborative.co.uk/webinar Connect with meWebsite: https://www.smallbusinesscollaborative.co.uk/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/small_business_collaborative/ Apply to be a guest on season 3 of Let’s Talk Shophttps://thereseoertenblad.typeform.com/to/ZPiHVX  

Hunting for rare bourbon is hard these days so many people have gravitated to single barrel selections as a way to combat it in the hopes of getting a stellar bourbon that is less expensive and more appealing. On this episode, we blind taste our way through a series of five comparisons where we try to see if a single barrel store pick can compete with past limited editions. We see if Weller CYPB, Booker’s Rye, 2016 Four Roses Single Barrel, and Elijah Craig 18 are worth the price. We also talk about flavors we prefer over others and how to create your own small batch limited edition bourbon as well. If you’ve done something like this before, drop us a comment with your results. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits is always trying to push the envelope of blending whiskey in America. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. The 2019 Kentucky’s Edge Bourbon Conference & Festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4th & 5th at venues throughout Covington and Newport, Kentucky. Find out more at KentuckysEdge.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the return of bourbon. Is it worth waiting in line or camping out for bourbon? Tasting store picks vs. limited releases. Weller CYPB vs Weller 107 pick by Cork N Bottle Booker’s Rye vs Knob Creek Rye by Westport Whiskey and Wine 2016 Four Roses Limited Edition Single Barrel OESK vs North Atlanta Bourbon Society OESK Elijah Craig 18yr vs Elijah Craig Loch n Key Wild Turkey 17yr Decades vs Russell's Reserve by Cork N Bottle How many barrel picks have you been on? Is there something on the flavor wheel that you don't like to get out of a bourbon? Have you tried to create your own small batch before? 0:00 Hey everybody. If you have a bachelor's degree and live anywhere in the United States, there's now a way for you to take your bourbon education to the next level. The distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville is an online program that can be completed in as little as 15 weeks and will prepare you for the business side of the spirits industry. It's offered by the AA CSP accredited college of business. And this certificate was developed in partnership with industry experts to be one of a kind and it's going to prepare you for your next adventure. Learn more about this online program at U of l.me. Slash pursue spirits 0:37 dry oak or the sweet Oh, I'm more of a circuit. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, that's what that's my nickname. So they call me Coleman sweet. Oh 0:56 what's up everybody? It is Episode 219 of 1:00 bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny, and we don't have a whole lot of news but it's festival season. And for bourbon pursuit, we are fortunate that we are going to be at some of the most prestigious ones around. We had a blast last weekend at hometown rising and now we are headed into bourbon and beyond weekend, the whole bourbon pursuit team is going to be there. And we have different sessions throughout the entire weekend. So make sure you go and check out the schedule so you can be there. bourbon and beyond.com. Of course Fred's gonna be there and he's scattered everywhere. But Ryan kicks things off on Friday at 1230 with beer drinkers bourbon, and I have the final session on Friday at six o'clock pm called what is a master distiller. On Saturday, I kick off at 1225 with barrel finished versus traditional bourbon. And we're going to be joined on stage by all the personalities that you've heard on the podcast before. So we would love to see you all there and please come say hi to us. There's always going to be bourbon pursuit t shirts. 2:00 Hats available at the Fred MC merchant so make sure you take a second and stop by their last week mark 65 years as Jimmy Russell being an active master distiller and now he is considered the longest tenured master distiller around Happy Anniversary Jimmy from the whole bourbon pursuit team. Maker's Mark is unveiling its first ever limited release bourbon that won't require a special trip to Loreto Maker's Mark wood finishing series 2019 new release, RC six will be available nationwide this fall. It marks the first of many upcoming whiskeys in the wood finishing series. As Maker's Mark plans to release a new one for a limited time nationwide each year. You probably already know about maker's 46 and the private barrel selection program that utilizes flavoring staves. This release was finished and secondary barrels containing 10 wouldn't staves dubbed RC six the staves made from Virgin America. 3:00 Or season for a year and a half and then baked in a convection oven. Before being introduced to the cast drink bourbon, Maker's Mark made 255 barrels, it's bottled at 108.2 proof. And you'll be able to find it nationwide in October with an MSRP of around $60. Not only is it festival season, but it's also release season. And release season means all the crazies come out. And for today's podcast, we look at really what that means because they're going to be bourbon lotteries that happen around the nation folks are camping out in parking lots. And there's a lot of hate around flippers and liquor store owners that are trying to get the most money out of these secondary values for these allocated Bourbons. So our goal in this episode was to see if we can help folks out there not feel the fo mo or the fear of missing out. We did our best to blindly set up samples of past limited edition Bourbons and compare them to single barrel private pics. The results are interesting, but the best part about this is that you can do this 3:59 At home, find a group of friends and get together and have a blind taste off and use some limited edition Bourbons versus some single barrels out there. Heck, if your taste buds prefer stag Junior over Big Boy George t stag, you're going to save yourself a lot of headache and money in the process. But you can do this as well for things like ego or 17 versus just standard single Eagle rare store pics. And there's a lot of them that spread the whole gamut of a lot of the big distilleries are out there. And if you ever get around to doing something like this, we would love to hear your results. Drop us a line on our Facebook page or mentioned us in your Instagram or your Twitter posts. All right, it's time to dive into the good stuff. Let's hear from Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. Hi, Joe from barrell bourbon here. We're always trying to push the envelope of blending whiskey in America. Find out more at barrell bourbon.com. 4:53 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char want to take you back in time, a time and bourbon will 5:00 wasn't cool when bourbon wasn't selling when Julian Van Winkle had to trade bottles of 23 year old Pappy, just to get a magazine advertisement. I'm talking about the 1990s. In the 1990s there was a very important event that happened that would shape the bourbon economy for the next 20 or 30 years. And that is the Japanese market crashed. You see up until that point the Japanese market was the number one thing kind of keeping bourbon alive. You had brands being specifically developed for the Japanese such as Blanton's Booker's know as mill the entire small batch collection essentially anything that was a an ultra premium of that time was being sent to Japan because the Japanese absolutely loved and continue to love bourbon. When the market crashed. You saw how the company's decided to deal with it. You had some 6:00 Who decided to put their efforts on domestic sales. So heaven Hill basically shifted their efforts to focus on the southeast and throughout the United States. Jim Beam really tried to double down and like places like New York and Chicago and San Francisco, they had really concentrated programs there and united distillers, now the CEO decided to sell. Up until that moment, they had actually been making more of their weeded bourbon to sell to Japan under the Rebel Yell label to compete with jack daniels. They had this excess of weeded bourbon and they decided to sell it and they also decided to sell their brands. They sold Rebel Yell eventually to the company that is now Lux go. They sold it old Fitzgerald to heaven Hill, and they sold Weller the Weller brand and the stocks and the archives to SAS racks. 7:00 Those are three companies who really wanted the bourbon and they really wanted to promote it. And as we all know, that particular whiskey was quite good and made an impression on anybody who ever tasted it. And I often wonder what would have happened if united distillers decided not to sell their whiskey and their labels to three companies who really did care about promoting bourbon? I've thought about that a lot. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't think bourbon would have ever has been as hot as it is today. The reason why united distillers has always been a scotch centric company and they've never put much effort into American whiskey. The exception being bullet and you know, George decal is kind of like barely, barely gets any budget, you know, at least they're now they're, they're paying attention to it, but that particular company has never really put a whole lot of focus on 8:00 American whiskey. So I look back on that time today as we celebrate bourbon Heritage Month. And we enjoy this incredible growth and all the fandom that we have in bourbon. I look back to the 1990s as the people who truly made the right decisions that got us to where we are today. 8:22 And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you want to learn more about the history of bourbon, check out my book bourbon, the rise fall and rebirth of an American whiskey. Until next week. Cheers 8:37 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kenny and Ryan here in our secondary recording studios in my basement if you're watching the video you you may notice the background it looks familiar. And we have a new guest on today and I'm sure usually when people come here they're always like, I can't wait to see Kenny's basement through all his bottles, bottles, bottles. I like upstairs studio better. We got more room. 9:00 On the dining room table, you were a little tight down here, but we'll make it work. So you can see the bottles. Yeah, so when I was planning the basement I never really planned this to be like a recording space. But it kind of turned out that well now you have lights and the whole shebang. You know, it's like, real deal. We'll make it work. We'll make it work in the cramped space. It'll, that's how to happen. But, you know, today, today's topic really came as it was a good suggestion by our guests. Because when we think about the significance and what it really takes to go in chase after unicorns and limited edition releases, it's becoming almost it's been it's difficult. Yeah, it's very, very difficult. It's either your, I don't even do it. I just gave up on it. Like two or three years ago. It's like no, not camping. Yeah, you're either camping or you're paying secondary prices, or, you know, CP and other people are kind of like, Oh, yeah, well, I've got a great relationship with the store manager. I buy everything there. And and that's great. But sometimes you also need to take a step back and think like, Okay, well, I 10:00 If I just keep buying a bottle of bourbon every two weeks, and I keep buying a 12 pack of beer odds are I'm probably spending almost two months as well and I could just bought off a secondary and in my case my store relationship it caused me a probably about five to $600 in tickets to like concerts and football games and all that stuff per year so I need to add that tax on to my math whenever I'm like I'm getting these a cost Yeah, maybe not. Yeah, I was like that big man. We've a lot be actually cost you more than the second Yeah. No doubt. That's definitely how it happens. But So with that, let's go and introduce our guest today. So today we have Mikey Conrad Mikey, welcome to the show. Welcome. Glad to be here. Yes. beautiful, magnificent basement. Yeah. See, we like to hear that it's all about the ambience. Right. That's the town. So Mikey, you know, first off, thank you for coming up with this idea because this is this is great because we get to kind of look at more of the bourbon culture side of things here. We get to look at really what does it take to look at a 11:00 Very good store, pick somebody that is from a Baroque barrel selection group, or whether they're stores that are very well known for it, versus chasing after those limited releases, which sometimes they're pretty much the same exact thing as those barrel selections just either aged longer or selected by the master distiller for various reasons, something like that. So kind of what was your your reasoning behind bringing an idea like this? Yeah, I mean that the main reason is kind of already been hinted at, like, it just got really almost ridiculous to camp to spend time, energy effort, money into chasing things that you weren't always sure if they were going to pan out to be what you think they're going to be because of everyone else telling you that you got to get this bottle. It looks pretty, you know, whatever it may be. And so you know, you start to take store pics or single barrel pics from clubs or stores or bars and you're like man says really 12:00 Good, this tastes better than you know the special release that came out. And so it really is just come to a simple like reality that time is something you don't get back. And so for a guy who's married, you know has three daughters. I'm like, Man Am I am I just spend too much time trying to always chasing bourbon. Yeah, man. I mean, come on. So Miss three genetics and glasses of the past. 12:25 I mean, that's where some of the really practical I mean, thought came into play as like, really, like, how much time should I be spending and it's like, man, there's access to so many great stores in this area alone, Kentucky, Indiana, like man, there's gotta be some a better way. So yeah, that's what and Ryan always talks about opportunity costs. Being when you say yes to something you're saying no to something else. Yeah, you definitely always gotta think of the opportunity costs. It's that and then it's also you know, in the value of your time, you know, Ryan being an entrepreneur and owning a few businesses. He he has this sort of level. 13:00 Thinking, because I go back and I think of like my 2014 days of camping in front of liquor barn and being like one of the first three people there and coming away with a 23 at the end of the day. Yeah, sure. It was fun. They were good times. And now if I think about it, like what I ever do that again, like, is my time more valuable than actually waiting in line? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you gotta look at like your salary or what your earning potential is like as someone and and you're like, all right, I just invested nine hours to get this bottle. And it's, you know, 1300 1500 bucks, you're like, wait a minute, I could have just done my regular job and you know, done a lot better. But you know, but it's also fun to you got it. You can't discount that there's something in about going to the store going out for the hunt, hanging out with people to you know, get those bottles so that you can't totally just make it a numbers thing, but it's a Yeah, yeah. And nine hours is probably on the short end of the stick. Yeah, exactly. So it's even lower cut, you know, or even bigger opportunity costs. So, so I'm going to talk you know, we're going to talk a little more about these topics as we go but one of the 14:00 things that we're doing today is we are going to be kind of going into a double blind here. And this is going to be store pics versus limited releases. And these are store pics that I've had access to that I've purchased as well as limited editions that I purchased. And honestly, I told my wife I said, Let's set these up. We don't want to know if this is an Elijah Craig pairing. If this is a four roses pairing, I don't really know what it is. She really want to expose us. Oh, I mean, this is gonna make us look real bad. Yeah, okay. So so we're going to not not only know what the brand name, the mash bill, whatever it is, but then inside of that we don't know which one either one or two is the limited edition or is the store pick? Yeah, so we're going to go through and we're going to start off with our first one here. We were going through so we always know number one is on our left and number two is on our right. So we've got a lined up. So let's go ahead and kind of start 15:00 The process of nosing through these and figuring out I know what it is. Oh yeah, just by that. You're so fast, huh? Think it's a well or one of seven. You think you're going straight with the leader off the bat, huh? So I actually I have no idea I can I that was the first thing in my peripheral vision. 15:22 So I'll give you some ideas of what we have up line today. So we've got on the store pick side we've got a Russell's reserve from cork and bottle. We've got a knob Creek pick that was done to knob Creek right pick that was done by Westport whiskey and wine. We've got a nine year nine month OESK that was done by the North Atlanta bourbon society, which I chose that one because we're pairing that against a Brent face bottle which was the 20 1614 year old SK in addition to that, you know, we already said we got a well or 107 which is also cork and bottle pick versus a Weller 16:00 After perfect bourbon, which was a sample sent by Matt q six So Matt thank you so much for sending that along and hopefully we don't disappoint you here or hopefully hopefully we can yeah yeah 16:12 I really enjoyed the nose on this one I wasn't in love with the taste or finish or anything about it Mona maybe it's just cuz my first one 16:22 I'm kind of with you on that one. The nose is there but what taste might be a little weird Yeah, I mean we all profile on any of those on so they're trying to register in my head so this is also kind of the the issue with some store pics too is that a lot of people and a lot of stores? They will they always go and they want to find something unique. Yep. And so they try to find that that off profile one and so that could be the one here that is that is the off profile side of things about you Mikey need to have a guests on me and my guess is going to be way off. That's okay. It's got my brain. Ivan land I totally just glanced over. 17:01 But there is a big drop off on the back end of this thing. Yeah. The only thing I noticed up front when I first knows it was like some cherries and always get cherry out of like Weller's. But 17:13 that's the only reason why I said that. 17:16 I don't know. Wow, this is actually pretty hard if I just tasted the second one. 17:22 The taste is a lot better than the SEC. Oh, yeah. The second one's the first one. I'm going to go back to it because it was a little, like musty gonna, like funky? I don't know. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, it kind of had that weird finish to it, but I'm like some like I said, that's that's one of those things where you know, you go into a store and that's what they try to do they try to differentiate it by having some unique pick like that. They taste totally different, which is crazy, like did Laurin do these right? I hope 17:52 I can't be 100% on that one. But I hope so. 17:57 Mikey, how many barrel pics Have you been on? I know you came with 18:00 On one. Yeah, I think, right around five, and maybe, maybe one or two more, but at least five. Yeah. Have you found to find those like off profile ones? Have you found them before, I have felt small profile ones. And my brains always go in toward the masses. Unless there happens to be a large group of folks that just wants something really off profile. But if that's off profile can be off putting to someone that has an expectation of something that they want to, they want to sip or drink that's, that's within their, you know, their taste, right? And so we even at a place like New riff, like we, we got down to our two, we did them blind, and one was just significantly different. And my thinking was, man, guys, if we pick this one, people are going to think we're crazy. Yeah, they're not going to want to ever again, right, but the other one was just it was great, had a great nose, super sweet on the front, and this long lasting kind of sweet oak. And so we chose that one. So 19:00 But usually when that barrel picks I'm pretty simple like I have this very like Check. Check. Yes, yeah. Minus or check plus and yeah, if the nose on something is really weak I have a hard time putting it into the the check plus category but 19:15 I do like the nose on a second one a lot better than the first there's Yeah, like everything about the second one better. So I'm not entirely sure what it is. Yeah, I'm gonna put my vote for two on this one. I agree as well. But I mean, we've had so Ryan lands he's been on the show before he sent us a sample. A blind sample once Brian if you remember that. Yep. And we were we were dumbfounded by it. We were going through because we were like, is this a ride? Like it's got this minty flavor. It's like, totally, that means we couldn't pin it down. And then he was like, No, just a nine year Buffalo Trace. 19:50 Like, yeah, we're like, I didn't expect that when we were thinking I was like, some will have families day, like eight years or something from MTV, you know? But it was 20:00 Buffalo Trace Oh yeah, it was a crazy one. So I think I got my vote in number two Yankee what's your vote in? Yeah number two hands down all right all right so i think you won't do the reveal I'm already on the guess oh how about just trade them off you guys can you guys can both do reveals about that so you're real all right Mikey go ahead all right I'll reveal all right so here we go here we go number a number a number 20:27 oh boy sorry guys a one number one is Weller craft your perfect bourbon OC at least now I new 20:39 stuff right 20:41 the craft your own bourbon you whoever crafted it did not 20:46 you screwed up 20:49 yeah, that's I mean that kind of goes to show you right i mean we're out of the gate we already just said that doesn't work yeah, I mean and go me wrong like store pick one oh sevens like they trade upwards of 21:00 Like $100 now, but the crappy perfect bourbon i think is somewhere around 300 400. So you know, yeah, I mean, it was a limited release. It came in a fancy white label, but I'm just like, thrilled. I got it right on the nose. I was like, you should just leave now. Yeah, I'm done. See? 21:19 My drop word done? Well, let's uh, let's go ahead and refresh or reset here and he does dump dump bug it Here we go. Here's a here's a dump glass that you can use. Just go ahead and do that. All right. Have you done a 107 pic? I have not me either. 21:35 on the list though, I had the opportunity to do it. Which you know the Yeah, I mean, the honest weird thing about doing Yeah, we're going to have a just a big ol Weller mix mix, right here. So we'll just do that. We'll save that one for later. Is it pretty similar to like doing a Buffalo Trace where you know, you get it's 46 barrels and it's very similar. I don't need that here. So one 22:00 So when you do the when you do the well everyone oh seven pick. I mean, it's there's literally no difference than what you were doing with a Buffalo Trace or anything like that. 22:09 Except you have you have this high anticipation going into it. Yeah. Right because you're like, we did it like we're here like we're getting the Mecca. Yeah. I mean, you think like, it's going to be like crazy and like off the wall. Like you're super excited for it like you get it takes more than a little Yeah. You got barely a taste there. 22:30 And then so and so we're going to use it. So like I said, you go in like super, super amped for it. However, 22:38 when we did ours, I was actually sitting there with a few of the guys and I'm kind of like, it might be like one of the few times in my life where you're like, like so crazy going into it. That you say 22:53 can we get some new barrels? Because life's all about expectation? Nothing. No, yeah, nothing was like you 23:00 We're over the moon about any of them. I mean, so it was just kind of like Well, I guess we'll just choose one of these. Yeah, I mean, they were also kind of doing us a favor of giving this group that I'm in a 107 pick at the story behind it was this is all part of the the bourbon cartel as we've had on the show before doing a 1792 foolproof pick. And we are the team that was there chose the barrel and come to find out that barrel was already pre sold. And everybody had already left like guys came in from California for this all this other kind of stuff. And they were like, Oh, I'm so sorry. What can we do? What can we make it up for you? I don't know exactly how you want no seven pick and they're like, okay, let's make it happen. Yeah. And I guess when that happens, you might get the the last barrels all the rejects right into the year. Yeah, it's like when Eddie Russell was that the Russell's pig and they're like, well, operations is on air. Nevermind. 23:59 So we got 24:00 UV here. So with BO buddy. Oh, here we go again. So I feel like this is filling 24:10 or something logic correct maybe 24:13 behind you might be, you might have he's got this he's got his senses dialed in every night. Every night he goes home and just practice I actually do now ever since we've done pursuit series like I've kind of like trying to not take it seriously but really 24:30 put some effort into it. I can train my nose and palate. I don't know. I mean, it's I don't know I enjoy it and you know, so I've really, I'll probably with on this one so I don't hide me up too much. 24:44 But I just know it's like an alleged occurred to me up the gate. All right. I can tell you after the taste. I don't think it's Elijah Craig. Oh. 24:52 I think it's a rye. Oh, yeah. Because I had one Rive blind set in here. Maybe it's like a 25:00 bourbon and then you get four roses and some of the different recipes you get some of like a minty profile to it as well so yeah there's this earthy 25:10 earth you bite at the end 25:13 yeah it's definitely like you said get the ride and it's really standing out 25:20 we are more like a kind of peanut II nutty kind of, well, one of the things that threw in here I said there was a ride blind so there's a problem is the rods that you did are like gateway rods. Yeah, well, I know I don't know if their gateway rise because of the ride that I did. I did. I did a knob Creek Westport whiskey and what it was for what sports really known for a lot of good store pics. Chris has been on the show before from there. But I said what's a good limited edition to pair this up with and there's not I ok. I tried to be a smart consumer so I didn't go out and buy like the knob Creek hundred and 30th or whatever it was. I came in the box. That was like 26:00 150 bucks, but I had these. These had a bottle of knob or a Booker's rye sitting around. And so I said, well mean it's still Jim Beam at the end of the day. 26:12 Both of them like art super dry, heavy on the taste. So let's see if we can see if we can figure it out and blind. Hmm. I'm worried. Yeah, she's like, 26:25 I'll tell you a story because Booker's right, I bought a few bottles of them. When I told myself I said, You know what, like, I have a lot of money sunk into these things because they came out at 303 50 retail. And I said, I said maybe when it hits 1000 What's the perfect boogers raw? Is it cash flow? Its cash. Yeah, I mean, I think it's like around 100 and hundred and 10 hundred and 20. Some most most of the Booker's around 120 proof. So yeah, you could probably expect that now. I'm also it just seems like there's a huge difference in the 27:00 First and second one. I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Yeah, you might be right. I'm getting more ethanol knows on this first one. 27:08 But which one do you enjoy more? And the first one that I'll call like really 27:13 overpowers kind of everything for me there obviously, now that you said there's a lot more ethanol on the nose, 27:20 like on the nose and the palate and just really just takes over well and you know, also I can't be 100% of these are rise or not So, but the second one is so light, 27:34 and gullible. Is that word gullible? Not even close now, or do you think this could be I don't love either one of them, but I like the second one better than the first like now that I'm tasting it. I don't know if it is awry. I don't think it's a wrong at this. This might be the difference in the four roses. Yeah, because it could be the Brent face 14 year OESK versus the 27:57 the nine and a half year or nine nine 28:00 nine year nine months, North Atlanta Bourbons pick and I I chose both of those. I chose the North Atlanta one because the Brett face bottle was all OESK and this was one of the last store pics that I had that was also only OESK. Alright, so if you had to choose one where do you going with 28:25 I know hopefully their listeners I'm bored. Well 28:28 the comments going rolling around like I said, I don't love both of them. I think if I had to pick I'll pick two just cuz 28:37 like one just so I just get so much alcohol that I can't really taste much else whereas to I can kind of get some 28:46 basic bourbon notes you know a little bit better. They're both pretty underwhelming for me. Not underwhelming, but just very average number one has a bit more of a punch to me. Yeah. Which a lot of people think that 29:00 is hot or its heat. Yeah. I don't typically mind it as much. However, number two definitely has a little more subdued. Little more oak. Yep. And I like my tannins. So I know he does. Like, yeah, he's cheap for tenants. 29:19 Dry oak or the sweet. Oh, I'm more of a shadow. Yeah, I mean, that's what that's my nickname. So they called me come to sweet. Oh. 29:27 Alright, you want to reveal this one? Kenny. All right, I'll reveal this one. So I'm on number two. Ryan. I'm number two as well, man it is it's a close tie. But the ethanol knows on one. I yeah, I got I gotta go with to, to just got much more sweeter kind of reveal. All right, well, we kind of nailed that one. So this was the four rows. Okay. 29:49 Number two was the bread face bottle. It was the 14 year OESK barrel strength Limited Edition. And then the first one was the nine year nine months. 30:00 SK gotcha so in this particular instance the limit earliest when the limited release me yes so how about it? Alright, so let's go ahead and dump them out and get ready for them the first one was a store pick right the Yes The first one was the store pick that's correct grab another glass over there Ron if you can and will create our glass or dump glass over here. Mikey are the ones you've been on where the most memorable barrel pics or any stories from those two mean hopefully the one you went on with us but yeah you know no pressure 30:33 I mean Buffalo Trace is always on someone's just picking a barrel there and doesn't matter really what whiskey it is the set to get into a pickle Buffalo Trace it's on everyone's list right? So that one was great. I really as far as like tours go and overall barrel picking experience, man I mean castle and key. They they even though they don't have anything on the market yet, like the ability to taste arrived or weeded and then lay it back. 31:00 down. I mean, the experience overall was really great there. So I feel like Yeah, it was. That was overall my best so far. And you know, Buffalo Trace was great as well. But out of the out of the few that I've done, castle and key was, was hands down my favorite. And usually I'll try to point people toward a tour there for coming in from out of town, the castle and key I was kind of blown away with like, I'd seen it before the renovation and went, I knows time sensitive information. But last week, you know, last weekend did a pin hook pic with the breaking bourbon guys and man, that place is awesome. Like it is like the gardens are beautiful. Like all the architecture inside like it's a great blend of like modern architecture with old architecture like I just 31:47 I mean, it comes with a steep price tag. I think they said their tours are like 30 bucks. Yeah, for an hour. But I mean, but I know that I mean it's totally different. Like you could literally spend Well, we did spend six hours 32:00 If you wanted to you could spend all day there. I mean, it's it's a great beautiful location. Yeah. If you're a history nerd like I am. So there is that kind of on beyond that adds to the experience. Yeah. I mean new riff they're new, but man, they take care of you really well, there as well. So some of it is just, it's just different. So that's, that's the reality of some of these pics. Like, some might not be better than the other but who's our least favorite? Should we not say that we bought and again, bye bye. Yeah. My bad. No, don't do that. 32:32 There's really not some that are, like terrible, right? None are actually terrible. 32:38 I mean, the only ones that are terrible. 32:41 Maybe my opinion is terrible is that you don't even actually go in the barrel pick. You just have the sample ship tonight. Yeah, like that's just Yeah, I don't know. I mean, obviously, geographic geography kind of plays a role in that. But yeah, it's it's not as exciting. Well, it's just part of what it is though. There's probably very few people that go on a barrel pick and walk away, saying 33:00 I wish I would have done that barrel pick. 33:03 Yeah, that's that's probably very true. So I just so we're here at letter C Now I keep wanting to say the number c so letter C, and often knows like the nose right away like I'm like pulling number two, like way ahead of the pack here. Yeah. 33:21 They're both the both noses are far better than the ones from the last rounds. Like on the these two. So we're tasting right now trying to figure out exactly I know where we are. Right? We are. We are easily and Eliza Craig land. Yeah, this is totally worked on. I gave that spiel about how I'm taking seriously, I'm failing pursuit series. That's okay. But I mean, this is a work in progress. So, you know, the life of Craig brain in itself, like I'm a huge fan of it. Oh, yeah, they're, they're doing it. They're doing a lot of good things in regards of not only putting out what people have been asking for for years, which was a very 34:00 Proof release, you know, they brought out should I say reintroduce the 18 and 23 year expressions A few years ago, the only thing that you can't find anymore is the 21 year expression. But you know, honestly out of those older expressions and by the way i can tell you OA you can totally tell right just first said what each one is. Yeah, so I can tell you exactly the comparison here what we're looking at and ones and Elijah Craig 18 year another is an Elijah Craig store pick that was done by the lock and key society so lock Oh, I thought you were saying the first class logic Craig. I'm like, No, it's not. A second one is why I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, but I'm just saying. I'm just saying the lineup and so anybody that's unfamiliar lock and key is based out of Julio up a New England. They're a pretty big player in that that store pic world. They've been doing it for years and years and years. I've actually got an old store pick. I'm down. I think my last job 35:00 of one of the the last ever Bernheim we store pics that were ever available. Heaven Hill what opened up to doing your own Evan Williams your own Bernheim, your own header mechanic all that sort of stuff then they kind of put the handcuffs on you to is definitely got to be the 18 and one is the 35:21 it's that eight to 12 year like Elijah Craig got the nutty toffee candy bar notes like stuff I enjoy so I'm definitely like one year program pick to the Hollywood pick two. But you know when I was when I was talking to Mikey about this and we were talking about store pics versus limited releases I actually thought I didn't do it but I thought about doing it because it's not actually technically a store pick or store release. But I said what if we did an Elijah Craig barrel proof versus like a nine year like will it family estate? Oh, yeah, I was like that one actually might be that would be pretty comparable. Well, obviously it is comparable. 35:59 It's the same exact 36:00 Liquid but both of these are really good Actually, I prefer one just because it's kind of got some of the sweeter not your candy bar kind of notes that I like. But that's just preference and I think number one, it's pretty easy to see that the 94 proof plan Oh yeah. And that's I think that's also evolving on both of them. They're both very light. Well, I mean, Mikey, like, tell me about this like, what would what in the market would change if heaven Hill opened up a logic Craig program and they just said, Yeah, put it a barrel proof. Yeah, I mean, you're going to get a wider range. I think of a first off people wanting Elijah Craig. Because it is it is very 36:44 I don't want this I don't want us to use the word delicate but I will use the word LB feels very delicate. When you put it next to the the UCLA team. There's a lot more depth to it. I think there could be a lot more depth to a single barrel pic of alleged credible 37:00 Proof if they would just open that up I guess it just depends on your consumer so like if you're you know the the first one like for what I think it's going to appeal to more of a almost a common but i mean you know like you know it's just because it's it's not the it's not the enthusiast in mind here it's very approachable very enjoyable but like get to you're definitely gonna get like you said more complexity depth 37:28 to might be more off putting to like a common consumer I'd say common but like, you know, or new consumer but I don't know depends on your consumer but I want the barrel proof because it's logical. Operators are always home runs like I've never had a bad one. Can't say I've ever had one. Well, I mean, there's the mean. So you know, Mike Sahni personally so you know that there's a lot that actually goes into making sure that an electric guard barrel proof isn't just a mistake, either right? Like Like they, they choose barrels specifically that go in 38:00 into it 38:02 which is a little bit different you know we've we've talked to the people that haven't Hill and when you talk about Elijah Craig 23 or when you try to find 23 year old barrels, it's actually very very hard. Yeah, and end up dumping a lot of them into like, just Edwin's Black Label because it's so it's so it's undrinkable. Yes. It's the oak is just overpowered. There's a bank on that point, right? There's, there's Law of Diminishing Returns without like, you know, can and somebody went the good thing I learned to catch lucky with the Pinot guy, because I was like, so how do you? You know, you have a really good barrel it say like 12 to 14 years. Like do you bottle dinner? Do you let it age? Do you know to keep will I keep improving? And he's like, No, he's like, Do you want something that's going to age you need something that's really soft, elegant, sweet at that age, because the folks really at 15 1617 is really going to start to overpower it. If it's already ready, you know, does that make sense? Oh, no, it makes sense. And so that that was kind of an 39:00 Lighting because we talked about, you know, US buying some 14 year and sitting on it for three to four years. But we were like, how do you This one's really great. Should we just because it's so great we hang on to it or should we look for something that's will do better with age? And that was kind of good advice. Yeah. And it's always a it's always a costly mistake if it never works. 39:21 Well, we'll just bottle it anyway. 39:24 No, okay, so let's go ahead let's reveal this one because I think I think this one yeah, is as bad as it sounds like I knew the bottles I chose them going into it. However, I let my wife figure out exactly what we should do. However, I thought we had Yeah, it's it's I mean, we want to live correct tangent for 39:44 a bit funny. It feels like not Brussels. 39:48 It would have been funny, but yeah, this one's too easy. The locking key and see Tuesday 18 years. Oh, yeah. Alright, so good work. So I mean, but the thing is, is like I don't mind 40:00 lock and key one like you're right like it's totally like a good drinkable bourbon. Yeah, for an average consumer that just wants to get into it. However, 40:10 I don't know if a lot of the electric barrel pics are speaking to the the enthusiastic market yeah maybe they'll keep going it's still fun it's still fun to go you know you talk to people from like bourbon Crusaders and they come out with a lot of good pics too. And the thing is, is though it's just kind of like I just wish they didn't take it down in 94 proof you know there's there's something about when you cross under that hundred threshold that I don't know Mikey, have you found anything underneath 100 that you're like, Hey, you know, like I can do this every single day like there's one there's one bottle and Brandon I do and I did this in the blind. So that's how I know. But maybe I don't know the proof. Exactly. But George Remus. I tend to like I like that bottle. 40:59 Not a fan of 41:00 why they chose George Remus of all people But anyways, you're part of the ground 41:07 and stuff is not necessary someone to model your life after. But But Remus Yeah, I love I love that bottle. I love the bourbon in it. I think it might be 90 proof. Yeah, typically under 100 proof like, like, you have to get into some dusty. He's like, okay, dads, and I mean, and we're like, 41:27 you know, like Victor's 20s or something, you know, because they're 94 proof or they actually might be right I don't know I've got one back there but I don't feel like getting up and looking at it. And so we're handing everything to Ryan do not mix see one and see two together like because 41:44 ECA teams just too good. I like it like it. Yeah. For me, for me. I love Elijah Craig a team when I am I'm sitting in the basement, and it's late at night. And like, I can't do like a barrel proof. Like it's just it's just like 42:00 I'm not able to go to sleep at night if I if I got that back in the bottle well who knows I've got it's a long day ahead of us still so yeah, you know I liked 18 I mean it for me the tags really sit and kind of dry and just like on the in which it kind of sits there and lingers for a bit and I'm like hi go away please 42:20 see not me I mean I'm Mike What about you like Do you like tannins? Because I like I said I like a lot of rich oak complexity complexity that what those really bring into it. I mean, that's it for me when you when you get a lot of oak that means that the barrel is doing something like tremendous and that's that's really what I get out of it. Yeah, I I'm a fan of the sweet oak if you can give me a finish with a sweet oak and like a dried cherry name that just last four days. Yeah, I mean, sign me up. Sign me up. Not a fan of the dry. Oh because much. I feel like it's got my get your lip smacking back and forth. 43:00 And just makes you thirsty. Not a big fan of the drive but the sweet Oh yeah, it doesn't make you feel like oh man you can you can almost taste the process. Yeah a little bit so I'm with you on that one and that's what I mean I'm a fan of just open general because it definitely is more of an overpowering flavor like up. I'll put it to you guys is like is there is there something on the flavor wheel right i mean we've all seen before that that you don't like to get out of a bourbon. 43:33 The 2019 Kentucky's edge bourbon conference and festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4 and fifth at venues throughout Covington in Newport Kentucky, Kentucky's edge features of bourbon conference music tastings pairings tours and in artists and market Kentucky's edge 2019 is where bourbon begins. Tickets and information can be found online at Kentucky's edge calm 43:58 as the saying goes 44:00 Portland is weird. Perhaps it's something in the water. It turns out that there might be some truth to that. The Oregon capitals primary water source is supplied by the Bull Run watershed. It's also the key ingredient in one of the city's most popular watering holes, Bull Run distillery. The boulder and watershed is a very unique water source. 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Use code pursuit for $25 off 45:00 Your first box 45:04 I'll put it to you guys is like is there is there something on the flavor wheel right i mean we've all seen before that that you don't like to get out of a bourbon. I mean for me definitely like some people some people are like oh I don't like like orange zest or orange peel or whatever No, I mean honestly I like freer freer whiskies I really like 45:25 like I'm with you know we're talking the barrel guys I really like when you get those like great notes and just too much because very off putting for me, like like he said, he gets dry and you're smacking your lips and like trying to get some moisture back into your 45:42 region, you know, but 45:45 other than that, I mean, I obviously I hate young stuff like where you just get green forward, you know, grassy or like, where it's like hey are you know, we I won't name any names, but we've had, we've had 46:00 You know, that's just very off putting for me. I agree. I agree. It's the last thing you want to do is sit there and expect something and then all of a sudden, it's like, Did I just mow my grass a second video? And that's in my mouth? Yep. Yeah, for sure. Alright, so now we're on letter D. So, you all won that one. Right? Well, I mean, I should say you all, like I said, I'm a nice person. Yeah, I think like I said, I'm just a fan of of what they do there. However, you know, that's the limited release, you know, so limited releases up to two one. Well, that's a hard one, though, because it's because it wasn't the same proof. It wasn't, you know, yeah. You can get in the gift shop almost every day. Right. Exactly. So no, not this isn't limited to Maryland, Maryland. Okay, that's a hard one. Yeah. And, and, you know, there's it To be honest, like there's a lot of things that we thought about that we couldn't do today. So, we looked at the the potential of doing an old forester single barrel versus an old forester birthday. 47:00 But I would have been a good one. Yeah, problem is, we haven't been on old forester. 47:05 And I guess we need to probably line that up. But the other thing it was like, just weren't thinking ahead of time enough to be able I sounds like a little like, let's go ahead and get it. And then the other one was looking at 47:20 Oh, gosh, I'm like looking at the bar thinking, Oh, yeah, we're looking at doing like a and this is not even a store pic versus limited release. But this is like a Sazerac rye versus a Thomas h handy. Yeah, it's like the proof 47:33 is me too crazy. Like you go you'll be able to pick it out like well that's and that's the problem is that like to do any of these with the the antique collection actually be pretty difficult to do. Because you could do a stag where's the stag Jr. Maybe? That was about as close as you could probably get. But you know, when you look at Eagle rare 17 versus regular Eagle rare, I think you're gonna hit the same exact problem that you saw at the Elijah Craig. It's just gonna be 48:00 Rich of depth of the oak. The same thing was Sazerac, 18 and Sasha cry, it's just going to be the richness and depth, I mean, you're going to hit that same problem no matter where you go. 48:12 So there is there is a reason why they make limited releases. It's just trying to find some of those limited releases that matched sort of the either the same proof or profile or age that I think that you really need to try to find and get out of this. 48:27 I love the nose on both of these. Actually. 48:31 That's pretty common with Russell's, which I think this is I don't think so. The other thing is the Russell's, or anything. It's raw, I guess, right? I mean, I haven't tasted it yet. But it's only because I know. 48:43 Because, you know, right now see, I need to stop it. Okay. 48:50 So far? Yeah, we've been pretty good. So Mike, you all kind of point this question over to you because I know that there's a lot of people out there. Travis Hill. He's been Oh yeah, for totally rock and 49:00 Yeah, there you go. And there's a lot of people out there that try to make their own four roses. Limited Edition small batch. I mean have you have you looked at creating your own kind of like small batch out of like different store pics or anything like that before I've not done it with great strategic content to create a certain brand or for the lease I have done the you know, the classic blend bottle or simple call infinity bottle. It was infinity until I tasted it and liked it. Then I stopped and then they became my blend because I stopped putting things in it. Yeah, so people would people tasted like this is great. And I give it out. And you had a record of it out like Exactly, yeah, regret it. Yeah, I do keep your record but I yeah, I lost it. But yeah, I would give it my dog always doing like bottle shares and things like that. Get people assemble, get everything done what it was, and they were like, this is really good. What is it like? It's actually just a blend of like 17 different two outs for else and things that were time, but I've never done it intentionally. I haven't 50:00 guys that's tried you know the the poor man's Pappy and have tried to recreate the the Al young with the blends that they think will work but sometimes it's 50:09 in there 50:11 there is something to it. You know, there was there was a blind taste in that Blake from bourbon or hosted years ago that I was a part of as well as a few other people. And oddly enough, like he sent six samples and we had to rank each sample kind of like flavors and everything notes and everything that we're getting out of it. 50:31 And, and it was it was it was so climatic at the very end because it was all happening. You know, he sent the samples we submitted him. And then at the very end, you know, we all got on YouTube or Google Hangouts and promoted on YouTube and we all got on there and come to find out the variant. The number one bourbon we all love was a exactly what you said a poor man's Pappy that was mixed in a ninja blender. 51:01 Me and I don't know if it has something to say about aeration. I don't have the something to say about anything else but it's this like, Yeah, he literally threw in a ninja blender. Yeah. And that's what one out of like, six different Bourbons. So it's crazy it kind of goes to show that you can 51:18 can always just think that the most limited things are going to be the best things. Yeah, I'll probably be adding a ninja blender to my Amazon wish list here Yo, I have they are fantastic. My quick smoothies and movies and bourbon What else? What else you want to mix just don't mix the smoothies with the barber. Alright, so for me I already know like what this is I can smell it. I can taste it. So two is going to be it for me. tues definitely, I mean, I'm torn one would be a great everyday drinker. It's got a lot of complex like great it's a great poor but to is like, to me is like really like something special. Like 52:00 That I would want out of a limited release or like a store pick, you know, something special. Like, that's I really like to so I they're both really good I already I mean, I can just buy the nose and it tastes like already know what they are. So my camera on a push over to you is to worth like $950 more right now. 52:20 That's a great question. 52:23 What is that? Because that's that's ultimately I mean, I'll tell you what if if it's reversed in the reveal, I will I'll just go ahead and wrap it up. I'll put my card like listen bourbon pursuit over my case the was 15 point proof difference, you know, between the wanting to 52:42 which kind of gives you a hint, but yeah, it'd be funny though if they are reversed. Hey, is the 52:49 question, but I think it has an easy answer. And there's no price difference wise, there's no way 52:56 if you want something that's simple, and there's there's nothing 53:00 off putting about this, right? To me, there's nothing like putting at all. But this one does have the number two has a lot more depth character. And the proof differences, definitely evident. 53:15 Especially on the back end it just stick in there to your tongue in a good way. I mean, at this point, there's, there's a lesson to be learned here. Right? I mean, we're, we're four or five deep. And I think we've already noticed that when it comes to special releases that the age the age is the important part. You know, the age adds a level of complexity and characteristic to it that you necessarily won't get anywhere else. Yeah. So far, we were dumbfounded by one, right. Yeah, having a 53:45 Weller 107 pick that actually beat out the Weller craft your own perfect bourbon. From then on. It's been really a difference in age. Yep. From there, I mean, it's Yeah, it's hard to replicate well, and that's why I mean, 54:00 With like NGP you know people go crazy with like the 1012 for it. It's more has to do with age like the age age whiskey is great like these Tennessee age whiskeys are fantastic. Like Kentucky age stuff it has to do with age like it's not necessarily the magic pill, the Jews, whatever, it's when you get to that 10 to 14 year range it there's magical, you know happens right there and it's it is it is what it is. Alright, so I'm going to go ahead and do the reveal. Because I can't wait anymore. Yeah, that's exactly what we thought it was. So D one was the knob Creek from Westport whiskey and wine in D two was the but they didn't try. They did a great job on do you want I mean, that's a sore pic for me. Yes. And that's what I mean. That's, that's the thing that we talked about the whole entire time is that you can get that for what 60 bucks versus 950. You know, it's I mean, even if you were if you were even on top of it, even when it was 450 55:00 Yeah to even get your hands on it so and this was years ago so it was definitely a tough way to to make it happen so again this is one we're not going to mix yeah do not do not mix these guys after the show is over y'all we are going to be probably just celebrating with the rest of the stuff we like to drink covers. Yeah the leftovers right. So the best of the all infinity bottles if you will. So Mikey, ending on a lot says elimination we have Russell's we 55:33 can i can tell you right now because I was a part of it. We're pouring out letter E. And we do with letter E like I already know what it is versus the brand. However, these guys don't know what it what it is. So I'm going to go ahead and just kind of reserve my comments for absolutely everything and just let them figure it out. So you know as we as we start going down this path though. What do you 56:00 You found like the most interesting well so far I mean the three three limited releases have one versus the store pics wishes Do you think it's a Do you think it's an oversight on our part that maybe we didn't choose the best comparisons because as I mentioned earlier like it's it's age versus a lot of stuff some I don't know though because I mean it store pictures still getting really good pores I mean, but think about it like think about other brands like I mean look at the shelf like is there anything else that like we missed going into this like think of like, like I said, we already talked about old for certain for suburbia urban bag would be the bag and stag it's Junior would probably be a good one as well. Like I said you could do like you could do a 7092 full proof versus like a Kentucky alpha later. Oh, cuz cuz you you think that's where it comes from? I think so. So that's your that's your excuse guess? Yeah, I think so. But I was way off on Sunday. 57:00 These guys have them. So, but yeah, I mean, other than that, I mean, because you got some MGP stuff, but like, they're all there. There's such a wide range like from person. It's hard and it's not often there's not like a ton of everyday offerings with MGP. Well, we had talked about this beforehand. I've tried to figure out like, Is there a single and that's that's an I guess that's the problem when you get when you get to what we can do this but it might kick us in the teeth like a pursuit series versus 57:31 decal, you know. 57:34 We're not well, just kidding. Well, 57:37 it doesn't exist. Yeah. So that's the other thing. Yeah. But the other the other part of it was ready barrel, I guess. Barrel versus procedure. They do a lot of blending. Yeah. So that's not a true comparison. So I mean, it's it's an Indiana country, I think the will it will it versus Elijah Craig barrel proof would be a good one because just to get it out there. 58:00 Yep, I mean, who knows, but I mean, when I look at it like I, it would have been good to do like a regular Booker's versus I mean, Booker's I didn't want to open up a book or 25th for this I was sorry just be honest with you, I'm not going to achieve f4 but I mean, that versus Booker's 30th or something like that like Booker's vs Booker's because at the same exact, you know, the end of the day, like each one of those is very good in its own right. However, like the the proof points are can be a whole lot of difference. Yeah. When you get to that high improved and you're in the hundred and 25 230 130 proof. Yeah. Who knows if your your your your taste buds in your flavor profile can actually discern a lot of stuff that's actually happening at that level. Yeah, right. Actually. Oh my gosh, like I'm tasting these I'm knows the side by side. I don't think I can tell the difference now. So now we're doing a wild turkey comparison. Russell's reserve versus the 17 year decades for 59:00 Nice. And I mean on first on first knows, like, there's no difference. There's no discernible difference whatsoever. The first one? 59:12 I don't know, they're pretty close. I was like, the first one may have a little more alcohol, but I don't know. That's they're pretty similar. You mean and this is and this also goes back into each conversation right? I mean like when we talk about age like 17 years you expect to have a lot more depth on the complexity a lot more more of this sort of stuff. However, we've we've seen the praises of Russell's reserve for years. It's one of the best single barrel pics that you can get out there today. You know, me and the best I can I'm one of the not been altered and pick yet I'm turkey pick y'all man, but you're the one actually brought today's pic. I didn't know. So I'm getting I mean, maybe it's because I do get a little more ethanol on the first one. And then I go straight to the second one. The smells a little sweeter. Yep, I'm totally getting a little sweeter on the second one. 1:00:00 But they are very very close. I love both of them. I knew that was was like I mean Russell's are one of those things you can just knows all day. Both these are fantastic. I mean it, it's actually very good number one is really good. 1:00:15 It's actually very hard to find a discernible difference. I mean, there's a little bit of difference in the taste, but it's not so much that you're like, Okay, this is this is a difference of $100 right here like it's it's it's very, very different. tues got I don't know I like the mouth feel have to like it's got and it's got more like a little more sugary brown sugary, kind of syrupy kind of texture to it. One is very good, but two is kind of more I don't know just real rich and sugary to me like syrupy like they're they're pretty damn close are very close. I mean for something that's almost like a mean it's not it's not a decade's worth of difference, but I mean, you're looking at at least six to nine years. Right of what you see between 1:01:00 Some of the older reserved pics from Russell's versus the decades releases so I'm going to go with two but not that much. They're they're pretty close tues oily on the panel I don't know you kind of want to yeah two is got a longer lasting finish the nose is sweeter 1:01:20 sounds like for you it's a landslide one this is a yeah for me it's a landslide too so too Alright, so Ryan there go ahead and reveal the last one we have today. 1:01:30 haha what do you think? 1:01:34 Well it sounds like it sounds like you're gonna toss balls with sounds like well so two is actually the CFPB pick Oh 1:01:44 decades There we go. So yet another chance where we get the final store pick Yes, you do single barrels making a comeback. I mean, when we look at the results from today, I mean it's three to two but it's not it's not a it just said a landslide victory. I mean, it's it's something that is it's a 1:02:00 It's almost comparable, if you can find that, that one little place that does really good things, versus somebody that just, I don't know just accepts it or finds the barrels at the store and does whatever. There's there's actually validity to the, to the that. By the way, this was all for science. Yeah. So make sure that everybody knows is all today, but it's all subjective and we don't matter. Yes, that's also very true. And you cannot buy any of these anywhere. So it's it's it's all it's all gone. So yeah, I mean, the first two I mean, we're really like, you know, with the 1:02:40 the CYLB. I mean, I was amazed at how bad that was. Like, I just did not like it at all. Well, not bad. Not a bad for the money. Ryan we get a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's not bad. We know what bad whiskey I guess I was just after revealing it. I was like, pretty disappointed. And if anything, 1:03:00 I feel like what it does is helps people see to not fall into the trap of fo mo to fall in trap of hype because the fact that CYPB is for 500 bucks and you can get a single barrel pick a low WA for 150 or if you're lucky enough good at retail 60 bucks it's like man chase chasing one that tastes better yeah and so and it should bring some validity to those who are still into those who are blending because Ed lie is a blender and he picked this barrel at turkey so there is some validity even to like hey they they're getting paid lots of money every year to do this professionally. So let's end even if you go to a liquor bar party source or cork and bottle they have tasting bars Yeah, so you can taste these things before you get into all the gotta have it because there's a line well maybe you don't even like the bottle that you're standing line for. Yeah, it's hate tastings before you before you buy them but I mean there's there's some psychology there to the line thing. Oh for sure. I mean every everybody thinks that like 1:04:00 We've all been there. We've been in the morning, and then all of a sudden, there's somebody that walks up be like, online for. I know, like 1:04:10 there's, there's, there's a there's a group mentality to it, right? Yeah, for sure. It's not fun, but it's reality and what it is, it's animal spirits, you know, we're all we all just follow the herd, you know, so. 1:04:23 But I mean, for today, I'm actually very pleased to kind of see the results because coming away with at least two out of the five that weren't limited releases, give some justification. Yeah, well, and we're thinking today into what I mean, when you're doing store pics. It's really based on who's going who's picking what they like and whatnot so like, you know, find a store or find someone that kind of meets your what you like, and you know, that's, you can find stuff that's just as good as the big price tag Islam releases. It's not even that I mean, we had we had some unfair 1:05:00 competition to. Right mean, if you think about it, like the logic reg. Yeah. 18 year versus like a nine to a 12 year? Yep. It's not it's not a fair competition. So when we think of which I preferred the nine to two, I know 1:05:17 a lot of people f

Welcome to Bourbon Heritage Month where it’s full of awesome festivals like Bourbon and Beyond. We dive into the show talking about Pernod's intent to acquire Castle Brands which Jefferson’s is a major portfolio player and if $223 million was a good deal. We comment on PBR's newest whiskey which is aged for a grand total of 5 seconds. Next is looking at the artificial tongue and what this could mean to the future of the industry. We wrap it up examining EU tariffs and it’s impact 1 year later on the whiskey market. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits has a national single barrel program. Ask your local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. The 2019 Kentucky’s Edge Bourbon Conference & Festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4th & 5th at venues throughout Covington and Newport, Kentucky. Find out more at KentuckysEdge.com. Central Kentucky Tours offers public and private bourbon tours for groups from 2 to 55. Learn more at CentralKentuckyTours.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick takes a look back at the Legend Series. Let's discuss Bourbon and Beyond. Pernod buys Castle Brands for $223 million. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190828005771/en/Pernod-Ricard-Acquire-Castle-Brands-223-Million Do you think more smaller brands are going to get bought out? Is Pernod trying to get back to bourbon? Was this a good buy for Pernod? What do you think about PBR making whiskey? https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/beer/2019/08/22/pabst-blue-ribbon-now-making-whiskey-collaboration-new-holland/2086883001/ Have you all seen Screwball Peanut Butter Whiskey? What are your thoughts on the artificial tongue? https://www.geek.com/tech/artificial-tongue-can-taste-subtle-differences-in-whiskey-1798999/ More secondary markets are gone. What are your thoughts? Who do you think is behind the shut downs? Tariffs continue to hammer down on bourbon. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-whiskey/us-whiskey-exporters-struggle-after-year-of-eu-tariffs-idUSKCN1V80DN What do you think is next for tariffs? What impact do tariffs have on the bourbon industry? Thanks to Nick from breakingbourbon.com, Brian from sippncorn.com, and Blake from bourbonr.com for joining. 0:00 I love bourbon, but I'm not ready to restart my career in be a distiller. I have a bachelor's degree and I want to continue to use those skills in the whiskey industry. So check this out. The University of Louisville now has an online distilled spirits business certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is perfect for anyone looking for more professional development. And if you ever want to get your MBA, their certificate credits transfer into Ul's new online MBA program. Learn more about this online program at business.louisville.ecu slash online spirits 0:38 so I'm just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody's whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it's got the perfect profile and there's just insanity and chaos. You know 1:08 This is Episode 217 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news to go through. So larceny from heaven Hill has launched a new app. It's an augmented reality app called unlock the Rick house. The app was inspired by the history of john II Fitzgerald. He was a treasury agent back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and was one of the only people that was legally allowed to carry the keys to the barrel storage Rick houses with a discerning palate for fine bourbon john Fitzgerald often uses Rick house keys to gain access to some of the finest bourbon barrels for himself. And those barrels from which he chose to help himself were often referred to as the Fitzgerald barrels around the distillery. The infamous active larceny led to the larceny brand and has now inspired the newest augmented reality app. So Once downloaded, you can explore the Rick houses by tapping on each one to search for the prize winning 2:00 Fitzgerald barrel, and from September 1 through December 31. Each tap of the Rick house gains one entry into the grand prize of $10,000. Daily prizes will also be awarded and include everything from a mini barrel shot glass and larceny magnets all the way up until a larceny guitar or an LED sign. So you can get unlock the Rick house available now on the Apple Store and Google Play. On Tuesday this week, I had the pleasure of joining four roses master distiller Brett Elliot, to a special media preview of the 2019 limited edition small batch, were able to ask him anything in taste through all the individual lots that comprised of this batch. And here's some of the details. The 2019 limited edition small batch will have a breakdown of four different bourbon runs. There is an 11 year old ESV that accounts for 26 27% of the blend. A 15 year old GSB at 40% of them blend a 15 year old ESK with 25% and a 2:59 21 year old BSB at 8% on the blind, and we got to go through each one of these and kind of rate them all and kind of figure out how they all lead into creating their own blend and the 21 year OBSV had the best knows it was super okie but the finish lacks some depth. And there was I know there's a lot of OESK lovers out there, but this one had a pretty strong bite to it honestly wasn't my favorite. However, the 15 year OESV was the real star of the show. This had depth and complexity and just kept going at all the right components into it. But come to find out. This is the same version of OESV that was sold at the gift shop this past year for Father's Day. So there's a few lucky people out there sitting on some really good bourbon right now. And the final proof of this will be 112.6 with around 13,440 bottles to be released in the US in around 3002 the rest of the world with an MSRP of $139 and 99 cents. 4:00 During this time with Brent, we also discussed the barrels and if we would ever see a single barrel limited edition ever again. Well, the unfortunate news is that he said it's likely to never happen again. With the explosive growth of bourbon, it's almost impossible to find a run of barrels that were all distilled at one time that would be able to satisfy this type of demand. Instead, these runs will be saved for future small batches for years to come. He said they have plenty of high AH stock. So this is great to hear for enthusiasts like us. And hope you're out there enjoying these whiskey quickies that we're releasing. As we get into the fall we're going to be bringing new reviews of all the newest releases including next week's as we review the new four roses small batch Limited Edition. All right now on to the podcast. On this Roundtable. We talk about bourbon festival season as we just wrapped up one, but we're heading into bourbon and beyond right around the corner. And if you haven't yet, go get your tickets. We'd love to see you there. Drink some good bourbon and listen to some good tunes. But after that, we dive into 5:00 To the acquisition business was the 230 $3 million deal for Pernod Ricard to acquire castle brands which Jeffers is a part of. Was that a good deal? Well, we had a lot of folks that were commenting in our chat section and talking about the EPA or the earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. It's a measure of a company's operating performance. One comment we received was from Craig Kessler, he's a Chief Investment Officer as well as an executive bourbon Stewart. So he talked about per node selling wild turkey at 12 times its EPA, while brown Forman was selling at 10 x. So per node got an above market value during the time of the value of other competitors out there in the market. As for promotes re entry to the market, castle was trading at a price sales ratio of one x and per node paid about to exit the company. So brown Forman is currently trading at eight x. So per node is paying 75% less than brown Forman on a price per sales basis. So from this production 6:00 It looks like four nodes sold above market for wild turkey and bought castle below. So we'll see about more of that into the podcast that after that we also dive into PBR is new whiskey, the artificial tongue and if you tariff data that's now been published is still going to continue to wreak havoc on new exports. All right, now let's get on to it. Let's hear a word from Joe over a barrel bourbon, and then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits. I know I talk a lot about blending here. But we also have a national single barrel program asked you a local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel. 6:41 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. In 2013. I started a series at the Kentucky Derby Museum called the legend series. It was a great opportunity for me to sit down with the legends of the industry and ask them questions about their careers and taste their whiskeys. I've talked to great people. 7:00 Julian Van Winkle, Edwin Foote, Harlan Wheatley, Chris Morris, Bill Samuels, Jimmy Russell, Jimmy Rutledge, and many, many, many more. It's been one of the most important events of my career. And now as I go into building the eighth season of The Legend series for the Kentucky Derby Museum, I just look back on it, and all. It's also where I made my first connection with the fellas here at bourbon pursuit. You may have heard this story where Ryan showed up and forgot to turn on the microphone. We still razz him about that. But it really was a great, great moment. I think, not just for me or the Kentucky Derby Museum. But for all of bourbon. The Legends Series was really one of the first high level high education events that allowed people to get really connected to a master distiller or a CEO and learn about what makes them 8:00 Tick. And I'm very glad to see that today we know everybody's mash bill. We know people's business procedures. And you have companies like heaven Hill who are creating diagrams for social media about airflow in a warehouse. So much has changed in eight years and the people who are most to be credited with this, are you, you the consumer have more power today than ever before. And let me tell you, the whiskey distillers pay attention a lot more to what you think, than they do. The USA Today or the New York Times, you are the most powerful person in the all the equation of American whiskey. They follow what you say on social media. They follow what you listen to what you read, and they want to know your opinion, constantly. So join me in the further pursuit of knowledge and let's 9:00 asked people to open up and tell us more about their distilleries. Some people may think it's unfathomable to know what's going behind the scenes when they're making a price increase, or what they're thinking when they're changing their barrel entry proof. But eight years ago, heaven Hill didn't disclose their mash bills. Now, they freely tell you every single grain that goes into their whiskies, so things can change. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, make sure you're following me on Twitter and Instagram. So you can come to next year's Kentucky Derby Legends Series. You can find me at Fred Minnick again at Fred Minnick. Cheers. 9:45 Welcome, everybody. This is the 36 recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. This is where we talk about what's happening in bourbon bourbon culture bourbon news. We've got a lot of topics to cover, but you know, this is also the beginning and how we're kicking off 10:00 bourbon heritage month so everybody welcome to bourbon heritage month it's kind of like our Super Bowl if we will right we're finally here doing that. But you know not only this bourbon Heritage Month starting to kick off but one of the biggest things is this is also turning into festival season. You know we just wrapped up bourbon on the banks. There's one called Kentucky's edge that'll be coming up and first week October however, Fred Super Bowl here is here and in two weeks so Fred you getting getting mighty pumped for bourbon and beyond? Yeah, bourbon and beyond is right around the corner. I've got two other festivals right before that one but bourbon and beyond is my baby. I work on a year round. We've been working so hard on it, obviously we got the Foo Fighters ZZ Top. 10:41 Alison Krauss, Robert Plant, Zac Brown band we got all these incredible bands but we also have 10:47 you know, grand Melia from top chef and we have a lot of lot of cool panels here. So you all are on the panels. Nick Jordan's there on behalf of breaking bourbon. But I'm very proud of 11:00 The curation of the panels this year, and it's just an incredible, incredible lineup of of education and cocktail. Yeah, I mean, do you want to kind of give people a little bit of a teaser on what some of these panels are so they can go out and yeah, so well one year of moderating Kenny is like what is a master distiller and that's something that we in our community we talked about all the time like what is a master distiller? I mean right now technically Brian who's just a lawyer could be a master distiller without even going any kind of like training for it. We're I'm moderating a panel about the history of slavery and American whiskey. This is the very first time that anybody in our industry has approached this and I want people to realize that you know, this is something that 11:50 you know, it we, we kind of like avoided a lot but you have people like fun Weaver 11:58 and you know, who's bringing 12:00 to the forefront and making sure people want to talk you know, make sure people talk about it because it is something important that is a part of the American whiskey heritage. And I don't think we should just like gloss over it with and so that that's, that's a big seminar we've also got one called bourbon disruptors. I'm excited about Brian's panel that he's doing. It's called whiskey dark past, you know, there's been a lot of murders, there's been a lot of bootlegging. All kinds of shenanigans have been associated with with American whiskey. And, and so you have some some deep ones. And then we have some like real basic like high about how to make a high ball and how to make a man hat and an old fashion. We have a lot of stuff like that as well. So licenses, as well as the hardcore ones. Yeah, and I think at least all of us, we're super excited to actually be there be a part of it beyond the panels. And, you know, while we're doing that, let's go ahead and introduce all of our guests that are here or sorry, our typical roundtable member 13:00 Is that are here today. So let's start off with somebody who might not be able to be here for that much longer because he's getting ready to start batten down the hatches as as the hurricane starts making his way so Blake from Florida checking in How are you, buddy? Doing well, How are y'all? 13:18 We're trying to sneak sneak in a little bit. Yeah, it's been quite the week we you know, I'm kind of a little bit of a procrastinator on the on the storm side, but this one looks like we could get a little bit so yeah, no school for the next two days at least. 13:36 Well, good deal. Well, make sure you you stay safe out there. You know, we're all we're all making sure that you know, everything is everything's good for you, as well as all the other flirty and bourbon residents that are down there. So hopefully everybody is staying safe and heat and all the warnings of evacuating if you actually need to evacuate. That is true. Yeah, you know, but the streak continues. I just kind of throw that out there. The streak continues. 14:00 Introduction. 14:01 Absolutely this qualifies. It sure does. Yep. Yep. So Blake, if you could go back 10 to family please do please go for it, man. Thanks for thanks for chiming in here. 14:12 Yeah, I'm good for a few minutes. arena question Where were we? Not yet we're just still we just started going through the the table just going around the horn so well. 14:23 Yeah. Well, let's take a break. So Brian, you go ahead and take next. Yeah, thanks, Fred. And again, this is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter and Facebook sipping corn Instagram to sip and corn and online at bourbon justice calm and sip and corn calm and just to echo Fred's comments. 14:44 Probably no one is is is as excited as he is. But I'm I might be second place got rained out last year for my bourbon workshop. So I'm really excited about doing it this this year. And Fred Thanks for including me. Yeah. 14:58 And Nick, let's go ahead break 15:00 bourbon. Let's hear it. All right, thanks, Kenny. I've Nick from breaking bourbon breaking bourbon com. Check us out on social media at breaking bourbon. And yeah, unfortunately, I will not be able to make bourbon and beyond this year, but Jordan will be there. I will say I am pretty disappointed. It was a pretty fantastic festival last year even with the day the rain out the second day. And you know, I think anybody who's gonna be making it out there probably won't be disappointed. So I'm sure Fred you're probably going nuts now still getting ready for this thing but yeah, it's a pretty fantastic bourbon festival seems to seems like it's only getting better year after year. Wow. Thanks, guys. I gotta tell you, you know, it means a lot to me hearing you all say that because, you know, getting rained out. It was like it was like a gut punch. And it was just so it was really devastating because we had to cancel the other festival which is the Hard Rock Festival louder than life the next weekend. So all three days were canceled. 16:00 So we're really hoping and praying that we don't we have great weather and we're at a weird a better location that can handle the rain so like it's at the fairgrounds it's like right across from the actual Expo Center building and it's like that flat plane and it's a much more it's not as beautiful as champions park with all the trees but it's something that you know is if if this thing floods the whole city's underwater 16:32 there's gonna be a new meters thick that's going to be on the side of the bridges the show the the great flooded 20 2019 if that's what it is. Knock on wood. Yeah, let's we're not gonna have that it's gonna be remember the first year it was hotter than hell out. The second year was just torrential downpour. Third year it's got to be just clear skies. It's what it has to get it perfect. Yep. Alright, so let's jump into it. So the first topic of conversation is kind of a big one. You know, we've had days all our 17:00 on the show before good friend of the show from Jeffersons, and it was announced last week that Pernod Ricard is going to acquire castle brands which Jefferson's a part of that portfolio for 223 million. So it's good to see that porno is still still on the hot streak of buying a lot of stuff. You know, I was just looking at Castle brands. His website, of course, like Jefferson's is the one that kind of screams out to a lot of us. But they've got they've got an Irish cream and an Irish vodka. They've got Gosling's rum, they've got Aaron whiskey, which I had never really come around before. But again, it's a it's a bigger portfolio but it's it's pretty good to see this sort of thing you know, we've been not really not accustomed to seeing a lot of these. These brands start getting acquired. Now porno is actually kind of on a buying streak. It seems a lot recently. 17:51 You all kind of see. This is a trend that's going to continue to happen like do you think these more smaller brands are going to continue to keep getting 18:00 swallowed up by a lot of these big ones. 18:03 One thing that I noticed about this and I know, I know what they're paying for, obviously 223 million sounds like a lot of money. But for these larger companies, it's really, to me that's a that's a low amount for a brand like Jefferson's, which really is a workhorse. I mean, that that's a good selling brand that, you know, that alone could have probably sold, you know, you know, five years ago when you had high West sell for 170 $5 million. You know, Jefferson's was 10 times the brand of high YS at that point. So I think and I know what I know what rabbit holes sold, but I can't really say and I felt like that was a low amount as well. And so I feel like they're getting these these these brands that might be in debt and they may not have as much like 18:56 you know, may not they I don't know what 19:00 How porno is doing this, but that's not a lot of money for for castle brands. I just don't I just don't think there was anyone else looking to buy them. And so, right now you have the big companies and I don't know if they're out there looking to buy up, you know, brands unless it's like white cloth at the moment. You know, the like laws the hot one. So I guess that you know I come from the I always say that where I come from the tech side and so seeing things in the, you know, a couple hundred million dollars of acquisitions aren't, you know, it doesn't really I don't really bat an eye at it anymore. So you said that 223 millions just really not a lot. 19:37 And you think that it also could be 19:41 are there really only like a just a tiny handful of big players in this game that actually have the capital to acquire and if they already have something that's in their portfolio, do they need to continue to keep acquiring? Yeah, let's look at the brands that the big. The big portfolio is proud for 20:00 pronounce Ricard Diaz. Do you throw Proxima in there? BM Suntory obviously 20:07 Karen which has four roses would you know throw them in there and you know there might be a couple others that could really move the needle but you have to look at like what are the who has what it says rack Africa says RX a big player obviously. 20:27 And in 2009 porno basically got out of the American whiskey game when they when they spun off 20:35 you know Barton and you know, wild turkey and so you had like this incredible you know, they got rid of these these great brands and 20:47 and, and now they're trying to get back into the game after it was too late and pornos got a great Irish Whiskey portfolio. So Irish Whiskey is the only you know, whiskey that's really hotter than bourbon and 21:01 It makes sense for them to to try and get some jargon juggernauts but you know they've got smooth Ambler rabbit hole now and Jefferson I think they got rabbit hole really because of the facilities and rabbit holes facilities have incredible potential for expansion they fit right into the like the tourism model and Jefferson's is a hot hot brand smooth Ambler two is got you know they're they've penetrated a lot of really good markets so they made some interesting moves and I think they did them at you know whoever negotiated their deals I think probably did a very good job for them. Yeah, you know Nick or Brian Do you kind of see this as is Fred said it is this PR know kind of like crawling back into the market a little bit. You know if you know if you got rid of wild turkey at the wrong time because you thought it was a you know, basically a bad stock and you sold when the you sold out when is low and you know you bought it when is high like it they tried to like flip the script for themselves here. Well 22:00 I think they they definitely trying to do that. But they're they're filling their roster with D league players instead of what they lost. And I think their problem is going to be capacity. I mean, how can they increase production of any of those without huge distilleries to be able to turn this out? I see that is their issue. I mean, they they can get some from rabbit hole and they can get some from smooth Ambler. But that's a ways off. 22:28 Jefferson's is still just bottling in Crestwood. Right? I mean, they don't have a whole lot of capacity of their own. They're still sourcing. So where's it going to come from? So I see it is problematic there, they're buying the league players, and they can't, they're not going to be able to increase production. And I think that to kind of piggyback on the sourcing, and that's, you know, probably the comments that were, at least that I saw, you know, here in there, with, of course, the focus then Jefferson's in the in the bourbon world. 23:00 With respect to this acquisition, you know that's the question thing about high West with Ambler there, they've got distilleries, they've got the that kind of capability, you know with Jefferson's for example, it really is the brand that's bought the distribution you know, the labels that that kind of thing. So kind of to Brian's point it's that you know, it's that want to get back in the game want to get in in the game. I think there's still a lot of growth potential in general, but it's what is that you know, what are you going to do with that so now they've got two brands now they've got a pull out from you know, pull out from behind them probably invest quite a bit more Jefferson's to like they go from a company that didn't necessarily didn't necessarily have the ability to walk into a company like brown Forman and and strike a deal for 5000 barrels of stock. I'm not saying that's going to happen now if you're in our carbon now printer card. I mean, trees owners got muscle like NASA castle brand was is like 24:00 You know, that was like, 24:02 you know, a triple A baseball team, you know, in comparison to our car, who would be the Boston Red Sox or the Yankees, you know? So the buying power that they have to be on the source market. I mean, it just went up. And because they can, they can strike deals that he could never dream of before when they start sourcing from wild turkey that or MGP, which, you know, they they own the facilities after, after Seager. I'm sad to shutter all their stuff. 24:35 They got the facility in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, and DIZO. got, you know, Crown Royal and they're like, you know, who got the better end of the deal on that because they can never make Pernod Ricard can never make that Lawrenceburg, Indiana distillery work, and they sold it to LDI. And that, you know, I became kind of like the source capital but so that would be ironic if they end up sourcing from wild turkey. 25:00 GP. 25:02 And I guess another question that kind of throw at you all about this is do we see, this is going to be a lot tougher game going into this, you know, we had Trey on the on the podcast before I last year and we talked to him he said like, Is it getting harder now with sourcing, like our people kind of trend in your territory or you are in had all these relationships for and now you've got people that are on your turf barrel prices are going up. How can you maintain, you know, with not actually having a distillery that can pump significant volume? You know, is this was this a good buy for per node like it? It's That's a tough question. I think. I think Brian kind of alluded to that and I wouldn't say that they're, you know, deep play or anything like that. I I still am a fan of Jeffersons. I still like the whiskey they put out. However, in regards of an operation, it might have been a kind of a weird acquisition in my opinion. Anybody have any thoughts of like, is 26:00 Is ditches they don't actually do a lot of distilling or heavy distilling, like Was it a good acquisition? Or is it just something that you know as Nick said to it, just maybe a brand recognition thing that you have to understand like this business is driven by brands like we look at things from where the liquid liquid comes from, but this business is really driven by like a name and they're like it or not, whether you if you if you follow it or not, the Jeffersons ocean is one of the one of the best like marketing ploys of of the last 1015 years and American whiskey. Now I remember asking, I remember asking Trey for to see a man manifest that was barrels at that it was going to punch me but you know, you've got you have some people who disbelieve in that it's the ocean barrel concept, but he does put them out there and it's been one of the best like my 27:00 And the conversations that are marketing boys, I've turned into conversations. 27:05 At least in my world, everyone's like is a real? Is it real? Is it you know, so it's it's one of those things that it's probably just just on that alone. And the fact that Jeffersons is, is everywhere. 27:19 I think it was a great, great acquisition for PR now. So there's another comment here from Dan wall ski, you know, he sees Jefferson's brand is probably worth the investment. However, he wouldn't be surprised to see it now eventually start getting separated from Kentucky artisan and then becoming like a visitor destination of its own now, it's a pretty good theory, I think for for what this could potentially be and where could go to think about the Kentucky owl situation, for example, you know, immediately it's the plans for a gigantic, gigantic park in distillery, you know, so are we going to see something like that? Is that going to be the growth plan for her, not in this 28:00 Or are they just going to keep you know, continuing with the brand as it is and sourcing and kind of doing business as usual? Be curious to see how that changes over time. 28:10 For sure, and I think you know, there's there's also something that kind of it kind of jogged my memory when I think about this when we look at you know, we had Corky was last week's podcast, we've had coffee from rabbit hole on and there's always like this. A lot of these CEOs they say a lot of the same things of like, we're never going to sell this is going to remain in the family forever. And then it's like, is it though like is it like is it puts a fat check in front of your face? Like it's got to be pretty hard to turn down. There's always a number. I agree. I think you have to look at you know, let's take a look at at those two particular brands. Kobe had a lot of investors. 28:56 Corky did all this with his own money and he's got 29:00 Trust lined up and everything, it always comes down to the money. And look man, I'm in business. I don't come from money. I've had to work for everything I've gotten. And when you sit down in a room with with money people, you know, they always want something. So, you know, you give up something to give up shares of your company or something to get what you want out of them. But this, you know, there comes a point where they're like, okay, we've had a good time on this fried where's our payout? We went out and that we want to cash out and so everything depends upon how your business structure is when you have these small distillers 29:41 you know one other one other in games is that like, this is Yeah, no, I agree. And I think for anybody that is ever getting into business like you always want to think like yes I do for the passion. I do it for the for the joy of what it is, but at the end of the day, if somebody puts a big fat check in front, your face 30:00 That's, that's part of the American dream too. So you can't you can't discount that. So, you know, as we kind of almost kind of switch gears a little bit. And this is one that I actually kind of like this one because Fred sent this a little bit before we started here. And this was the fact that 30:18 PBR is getting ready to start making their very own whiskey. So I will drop the link here into the chat. I'm also going to drop it into 30:28 the YouTube chat as well so you can kind of see it, but really what it is, is PBR is now making a whiskey that's been aged for a complete total of five seconds. So that should probably already kind of get your blood flowing a little bit. So they have recently talked about their have a new, hard sell to it's coming out with a percent. But now they're actually going to be doing a 40% whiskey. It's already 40% ABV that has been aged for five seconds. So Fred kind of talked about this one Fred does this. Make your blood boil a little bit 31:00 Yeah, I have two words for PBR. Fuck you. 31:07 Yeah, I think it's I think it's a, you know, PBR is trying to be trendy and they got some headlines with this. But you know, 31:20 given that we're, we have a brand that's raised, basically repackaged Zi Ma, taking over the space of 31:30 millennial consumption. And actually really, Why call penetrates the entire world right now. 31:37 Anything is possible with what will be the next big thing and PBR has got a big brand behind it and I just, I just wish they would, you know, 31:47 this is this is a mockery of whiskey so i just i hate everything about it. 31:55 Nick, do you share any the same the same feelings, you know, I 32:00 Always look, I do think it's interesting, it really created a buzz I think people who may not normally think about whiskey or bourbon or what they really are, you know, I think that just that buzz about that it's going to go into a container into an oak container, it's going to be aged for five seconds or, you know, whatever they end up doing with it, if anything, that's an awareness, you know, piece of will have number one, how good is it going to be, you know, so for somebody that is just doing shots at a bar, they never think about anything, you know, as far as you know, whether they like things that are you know, higher quality, you know, longer aged, etc. What am I really drinking? Where does it get its color from things of that nature? It may cause some people to kind of get curious about what's really there. And I think once people start getting educated reach the point of, you know, anybody who's listening to this or watching this right now, you know, you're obviously this is much farther behind, you know, where your journey started, or, you know, much farther behind where you are now where your journey started, but I think that's the interesting 33:00 part about it is kind of just that awareness. And what's probably a younger crowd that's going to be more, you know, 33:07 in tune with this or tasting this or whatever the case might be, you know, where it might make some people curious about exploring a little further and eventually getting to the point where they respect what's going on with the actual, you know, creation and aging and things of that nature. So I think it's interesting I don't hate it in the same way that I guess that Fred does. You know, Willie succeed. I don't know. You know, it's it's different than the beer in that sense of, you know, the beer. I see the market for this. I'm not so sure. I guess we'll see. Yeah, I think you look at it, like everybody wants to try to create something. And you know, what's PBR? PBR is not supposed to be some glorious luxury brand, right? Like this is supposed to be like bottom shelf like how like, How fast can we get this out the door and you know, really just churn product. And this might be following that same exact suit. I'm not too sure if this is supposed to be a a premium product by name. 34:00 Yeah, they're not trying to be premium and I guess from my standpoint it PBR five second whiskey has no impact on me whatsoever and I don't care about it. But I see where it's it's going like like Nick said it's going to be at the is going to be at the bar for a shot and hopefully it overtakes 34:22 you know, some of these other flavored whiskeys which I don't care about either as the you know, the new hot shot for college age through mid 20s. And then there's going to be a market for that and there always will be in my day it was Yeager Meister and you know, that's awful. 34:42 So, you know, knock knock your socks off, go ahead and do a five second whiskey. Try to sell it by by the shot to 24 year olds and I'll keep drinking what I've been drinking. 34:55 So you know, you talked about flavored whiskey there. Have you all seen the the new phenomenon of 35:00 screwball the peanut butter flavored whiskey. Okay, I think I had it first at your house to tell you the truth. But it started it's starting to catch on now like it's out here. Now I see it here. It's I mean, it's in all the forums, people are talking about it. It's like It's like the white glove whiskey right now. That was the first time I had it was bourbon and beyond last year. So I don't want to call myself a trendsetter. But you know, we did a 35:28 shout out to Tony from keg and bottle who actually gave me that probably about a year and a half ago. And he said, Kenny, I kid you not, this is going to be the next fireball. And so I mean, I guess a year and a half ago, he gave it to me and now all of a sudden, like people are buying and it's taken off a little bit, but you gotta like peanut butter, that's for sure. Because Yeah, definitely definitely has that. That flavor to it. Okay, then liked it or hate it. 35:55 All right, right position. Yeah. So So back to back to work. 36:00 whiskey. You know, there was something else that came out a few weeks ago on on geek calm, talking about the artificial tongue. Do y'all remember this? So I'll talk about it. So the artificial tongue can taste the light. Subtle, subtle, subtle differences. Wait, hold on. Wait, hold on. Okay, I got it. You don't have the art. I wonder what the artificial Tom thinks about the five second whiskey? I don't know. That's a good question. 36:26 I don't know if that's what it's really made for, though. Who knows? Right? I guess we'll find out one of these days. But this was built by Scottish engineers and it's ultimately made to sit there and try to find counterfeit frauds or anything like that. That's on the on the open market. And of course, you know, we talked about it with bourbon, you know, having counterfeit Pappy all the time and stuff like that. However, you're going to see this even larger scale in the scotch world as well. So Fred, what are your kind of thoughts on this artificial tongue? Well, I've actually talked to 37:00 Quite a few people about this who are like in a tasers role and I think most everyone knows I do a lot of tasting. And I think it's, I think it's great if it's not like, you know, stealing 37:16 that I'm curious to see like the data that like goes into it like how they how they create it, because I know of one like, you know algorithm that's out there that's been taking people's tasting notes and applying them to basically putting a collective 37:37 algorithm together of like white to say, from people various like if you're, if you're writing tasting notes on Reddit, or if you have tasting notes on a blog or anything that's scalable, there is now a there's some spiders out there that's out there taking him and they're applying them elsewhere. So, robot tasting, so if it's something like that, I'm not a fan of it, but if it's something that really 38:00 actually adds to the, you know, our world. I'm all for it. But, you know, the thing is, is like Canada, it's the right now their marketing is like spotting fakes. And that's great. But I wonder what their next iteration will be. Because, you know, 38:23 eventually it's going to be about like, you know, this is how you taste. So this is what you're going to like. And, you know, I think that's cool. Yeah, I think this could definitely lead to a lot of different things. I think. I think finding the counterfeits is a, it's kind of like a it's I don't it's like a gateway. Like, it's, I don't think it's going to have a large purpose at first. Like, I think you need to cover a little bit more blanket area here when you're trying to figure out exactly what can you do with this technology? It's got to be a little bit more uniform, a little more universal of actually how to catch on into the point where, you know, you know, Fred, you taste a lot, however, like, is this something where it's like, okay, 39:00 We've got six panelists that are humans and then our seventh is this AI machine, right? To make sure like, everything works like this out of this distillery, like, you know, we've been going for utilizing people for the longest time to you know, knows and tastes and actually understand what this what this is supposed to taste like and what typical batch it goes in, but we're human like what is human it's, it's you have error error is built in versus a computer. Whereas if you're feeding a data, like it's just computations, so you know, knicker or Brian, like, do you kind of see this like, much more spreading its way out into? Maybe distilleries should start looking into this time of technology as well. So I'm just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue, and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody's whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it's got the perfect profile and there's just insanity and chaos. You know. 39:59 I'm visually just look 40:00 is like little tongues across the street like just around like overtaken a rogue tongues. Yeah, rogue tongue, I think there could be great applications for it. You know, they just the question is, is it going to replace, not necessarily master distillers but you know, people that you know blend in in, you know, testing that takes place, you know, within distilleries, and producers, you think about kind of that non scientific nature of so much of this and even just tasting notes, like you're talking about, I mean, the very non scientific process in the sense and that's one of the kind of magical things about whiskey, you know, would we, you know, if there was inside each label or on each bottle, kind of like a very specific profile of a particular whiskey or almost a map that was scientifically put together, you know, would that be something that, you know, would enhance the experience to people want that, you know, is that the end result of what we're even, you know, kind of dealing with here? I think it's interesting from that aspect at the same time, I do think one of the 41:00 great things about whiskey is kind of the human and the art of whiskey. So it's almost a kind of a weird dichotomy of technology and, and kind of that, you know, our full human interaction that, you know, you don't want to see that necessarily overtaken but you do want to, you know, you do want to add you value when you can, you know, there's so many whiskies are so expensive, that I could definitely see a, you know, a value proposition for somebody to say, Hey, is this something I might like, you know, for example, or how do we design a better, you know, a better whiskey. I'm just really I'm really excited that there's been tech applied in 41:38 a valuable way usually, tech people apply it in the most into rapid aging or something that everyone's trying to fix that when there's really not a problem other than waiting. 41:51 But I'm just I'm just glad that somebody in the tech world is applying, applying their know how and skills to a very 42:00 particular area that we do probably could use some consistency. And I agree with Nick and I'll take it a step further though i mean i think while it's it's beneficial in some respects, to have this AI tasting because the AI is not can be thrown off with what you had for lunch or what you had for dinner. It's but it's on the other hand, it's going to be much more sterile of, 42:28 of an experience of a description of what you're supposed to be tasting. And so much as Nick said, is so much of drinking whiskey is the experience and it can change if you've got a steak versus something else. And it can change in the mood and I've been doing it presentation Fred did. Music can affect what you're what you're experiencing, and AI is never going to get to well Famous last words as never going to 42:58 have the experience 43:00 That you can have with whiskey and if I've got a piece of Gouda that I'm eating with it, AI is not going to be able to tell me again Famous last words how that's going to affect what what I'm experiencing at that moment. So it's it's nice but it's to me it's sort of like a party trick and we all know that Jim Beam or somebody would hack it to give like something like a legion like a 95 43:28 so now Brian, I'm picturing like, VR goggles, some scent thing going on here. 43:34 headphones with your favorite music, you know, you can certainly get right there. tastes and smells right at your at your disposal. Yeah, you see, a few Metallica, Metallica does that they have one of their tasters played various have everybody put on, you know, special headphones. And they have to taste like five different whiskeys. It's all their whiskey but they 44:00 People say like the whiskeys taste different based on the music they're listening to, and that there's news, new evidence that suggests that what you listen to has a much deeper effect on on how you taste. So I am definitely on board with what Brian just said there that the AI will never be able to pick out a more of a human element at least and probably in our lifetime. I think. I mean, I don't know, I think I think you're right, I don't think it's gonna have that human element to it. However, I think there's there's a lot of potential of what this could do in regards of thinking that you want to create more, say a brand that has a very, very specific kind of character. And so you take, you take one outside of a particular barrel, then you get a chemical breakdown of like the 30 different things that are in it. And it's like, you know, x percentage of something versus white percentage or another, and then you kind of figure out exactly Okay, I need this kind of percentages, and they all start equal now. 45:00 Alright, dump these barrels together. And now we eat. Now we kind of see this, this sort of specific profile that could be coming. So could be completely different in a way of building new brands versus just sitting there and saying like, okay, we'll just go and make sure this is this is this is not Pappy. This is just regular WO Weller. And you know, the thing about checking if something's fake or not, most the time when it matters, it's sealed, and you want to keep it that way. So that application is a bit of a struggle, you know, because you're probably rarely going to find a purchase contingent on you know, opening, pouring, tasting or testing or whatever the case might be. Yeah, how would you like to be the guy who just dropped $1.5 million on a bottle of McKenna gets a test and like, Oh, yeah, now. This is actually Glenfiddich, 12 year old, you almost don't want to know. 45:55 Like, no, just keep those things away. 45:59 Yeah, there's this 46:00 Definitely a bad side to that to it you know it as we start coming going down this path you know there's something news that happened last week. You know, there has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there's just groups are disappearing left and right. 46:17 The 2019 Kentucky's edge bourbon conference and festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4 and fifth at venues throughout Covington in Newport Kentucky. Kentucky's edge features of bourbon conference music tastings pairings tourists and and artists and market Kentucky's edge. 2019 is where bourbon begins. Tickets and information can be found online at Kentucky's edge.com. 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Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk we are twice the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. 48:00 Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rackhouses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rackhouse whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 48:20 There has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there's just groups are disappearing left and right. And even the secondary backup BSM group that was over on me we may way whatever it is, is that's now gone as well. So it's not like it's just Facebook, it looks like this is like a virus that's continually trying to spread and it's just getting knocked out sort of wherever it goes. Now don't get me wrong, there's still a few groups that are remaining You know, they're probably around like the two to 3000 member Mark but there's nowhere near even on the bsm on me was like almost 10,000 or above. So it seems that we're everybody flocks to 49:00 These are just getting can left and right. 49:03 Now I've tried to reach out haven't really heard anything of in regards of why it happened or anything like that. However, it just seems there's there's no safe haven right now. Do you all kind of see this as is this can be the new norm? Or is it just like, it's just hot for the moment? We'll have to wait ride this wave, and then maybe here in another three months, will we back up to where it was, is going to happen. It's just a matter of what in when. And it might change over time. You know, as we're seeing right now, it's certainly changing how the communication is done. Probably the bigger question is if we have these call it a period of a drought, for example, which is interesting, because this is happening, you know, before we start seeing some of the big fall releases and things of that nature, you've got to ask yourself is is that going to change the the primary market, you know, because how much of the primary market is driven by what ends up happening on the secondary market? You know, so a lot of people buying you know, basically 50:00 The idea that they're going to be able to turn around and sell for a profit, if that is no longer in place or that you know, you knock out 50% or some in reasonable percentage of the, you know, people that are able to do that or see their ability to do that. Does that start driving prices down on the primary? I think it'll be interesting to see how that you know, kind of goes over the the upcoming months here. Yeah, I think we're going to see this in Natalie. That is, I think Brad Atlas had a post that was on Blake's group, this past week of, you know, the the new each Taylor amaranth has been album release. However, nobody can figure out what a price should be on it because there's no room there is no place to auction off and figure out what's going to be even today. There were I think, like 72 birthday Bourbons that were sold at old forester distillery downtown to kind of commemorate the old forester birthday bourbon and George bourbon Browns birthday. However, I haven't seen a whole heck of a lot of them show up on anywhere. So you know, this 51:00 Is this could be a sign of the times that, you know, hopefully you're buying it to hold on to it because finding the outlets to sell it is getting a lot harder now. It's definitely interesting. 51:12 I, you know, I, I'm beta testing an app right now and I've been asked if, like, people can do that and I'm like, Well, you know, I have that I have to, like, seriously look at that now. And I'm thinking of like the potential liability associated with it. I'm like, 51:29 you know, maybe you don't know maybe in your chat your own little private chat group, which I can't see but 51:37 it's, it's fascinating to me. How this this domino effect and I would love I would love to sit down with Mark Zuckerberg interview request I put out many times by the way, never that I have a probably, but I would love to find out if like he's had a hand in or some on Facebook, haven't you know, I would love to hear the rationale behind it. But I know they 52:00 said some things but there's more to it, there's gotta be more to it. It just doesn't. just doesn't make sense to me, especially with this new, this, this new social media site dumping it so quickly. It just, it's odd. Just, it's gonna be coming down from somewhere else. I mean, fame makes you wonder if brands are involved. Sorry, brands, you know, if we've got brands or somebody specific, you know, with intent, you know, and is watching this more closely, and specifically, I think that's a great question. And they have been watching these markets for for some time because they would even like, you know, price their whiskey to, to combat it, but I would, I would argue that it may not be a brand behind it, but a very powerful retailer. You know, who wants that money 52:58 and knows that that money 53:00 He's out there they want they want your dollar. They don't want you to buy it, you know, SRP and then flip it. I mean, there's any number of areas this could go, there's any number of people who would like to see it stop. 53:13 But I do know this. I, I know that most of the like the state authorities don't really care. You know, I mean, I've talked to him about it, and they're really care, you know, but like Texas does, Texas cares, Pennsylvania. All the control states actually. But 53:33 you know, this is doesn't seem to be like, any kind of state leading it. 53:39 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. The control states, they don't want competition. And Sylvania doesn't want to know, what cracks me up about Pennsylvanians. Every year they send out a press release, and oh, we lost like three or four of them this year, or one was broken in and transport. And I'm like, wow, I bet it suddenly got lost on the 54:00 The state majority leaders front still front step and you know the bottle accidentally broke after it was consumed by the directors house in our at the directors house and me is just it's all kinds of silly with with Pennsylvania 54:15 well let's control states in general but you know I think when we when we look at just the secondary market you know we've talked about it in regards of like how this built a culture This is probably how bourbon has a mass to how big it is because most people wouldn't even know about a lot of brands if they didn't see them on the secondary markets begin with I mean it's we all have our stories so I think it'd be it'd be interesting to kind of see where this is going to go you know me when I look at it I think this was this is a critical and crucial part of really what made bourbon what it is today. And you know, there's going to have to be somewhere where people can basically value this as sort of currency maybe it's trading You know, I'm, I don't like to sit there and say like, yeah, go get a birthday bar, birthday bourbon, 450 bucks and go try to sell for 300 like 55:00 I'm not all about that However, it's like, if you get a birthday bourbon 450 yet, you can't get a George t stag this year. And that's just part of the trade. And that's great, right? That's, that's something that you are able to get your hands on, you can kind of trade your way there, you know, and start with a paperclip unit with a plane. But that's that's essentially like where I like to be able to see this because it's all about getting the, you know, the bourbon that you want in your hands and kind of how to get it. But yeah, I mean, I think you're right, but for to the point of like this, this help kind of like spread the enthusiasm. 55:33 I know like the people in the groups, if you if you put it on scale, you're looking at maybe at most like 2 million or something, at least the various groups that I knew of, and that's not a lot in the grand scheme of things. Those people who are like everybody's influencer in their families in their workplace, and they would be the people out there talking about bourbon so and it was the these groups kind of became community 56:00 Bs and I was, you know, I, I love them. You know, I love them because we're actually I love them five years ago, you know, they they changed quite a bit in the last couple years, but they were very, very engaging. You can talk history, you can talk about who distilled water like, I mean, I remember having a conversation with someone educating them about Woodrow Wilson, which if you don't know, he was a master distiller, it's it's a well or for a very short period. But you know, he made some good whiskey. And so I guess a, you know, as we start thinking of other ways of how is the bourbon market being hindered, you know, there's been finally some data that's now coming out about the US whiskey exports and the tariffs that are now happening over in the EU. So when we start looking at this, you know, I look at some of the data here and I'll again, I'll drop the link in the chat for folks that want to be able to see this. You can see all these links in our show notes as well. 57:00 But the distilled spirits council came and said that there was a 21% decrease from June 2018 to June to 2019. That was all lost sales after shipments to Europe plummeted. So we've got the data coming in. 57:19 You know, I know Fred, you're you're kind of close to this. Is there a way that things could eventually bounce back to help bourbon brains grow? And I will always say it again that if somebody says, Oh, yeah, this is great, because it means more bourbon on the shelves for me. You're in the wrong here. Okay. Think bigger. Well, there have been some really nice trade related things that have happened like in a couple weeks, I was invited to to meet the European Union ambassador to the United States. And they're celebrating scotch Irish and bourbon whiskey, the you know, the unique designations of them and like all the all the country 58:00 kind of coming together in Washington DC to celebrate this. And so, from an industry perspective, you know, they have the ears of their legislators, their ambassadors, their Parliament or whatever. 58:14 You know, Brexit also, you know, through a wrinkle into it. So in an odd way Brexit could be 58:23 you know, it could be good for for the tariffs, 58:27 you know, for that particular portion. But, yeah, so those are a couple of the good things but in in all seriousness, you know, they're not letting up you know, Europe is still very hell bent on applying pressure. And you know, there's been reports that they want to apply more pressure you know, in in in mitch mcconnell areas so I just, I just don't see this you know, being good and it's in it's shut out small brands like the topping Creek completely. And Kenny, I know you're a brand owner. 59:01 You know, you want to, let's say you want to open them. You have a small shop in Poland, who absolutely loves to show loves you wants to make you his number one whiskey in his store, you won't find a distributor in that entire country that'll take your call. You know, it's just because of tariffs, they don't want to pass that on it. They're just not taking calls from small American lyst companies. So 59:25 yeah, and I think this is this is, as I mentioned before, I mean, this is so much bigger than just what you can get here in the shelves like this is this is trying to grow the category as a whole to start taking on scotch as as, you know, the whiskey in the market. And we can't get to that level scotch unless you have a fair playing field, you know, across the board to be able to say like, okay, like, let's get this in the hands of people in Australia and Zimbabwe and China and, you know, in the EU as well, like, how can we grow this as a whole. And this is really where the tariffs are going to start really being that that first sort of 1:00:00 Hand slap, I guess you could say is, if you're trying to reach a new market, you know, all of a sudden, if you have a, if you got a 30 or $40 bottle here in the States, I mean, you're, you're looking at doubling that, if not coming close to triple as you start getting, you know, already just distribution overseas, but now the tariffs are adding a lot more to it. And if you can't compete with a, you know, 50 $60 bottle of scotch, then you're, you know, you're already setting yourself up for failure. And so, you know, as we start kind of rounding this out, you know, Nick and, Brian, I kind of want to get your sort of thoughts on this, if you have any sort of inkling of what do you kind of see next? Maybe, if it's an election year, is there anything that could change? You know, after that as well, Nick, you go ahead and go first. I was gonna I was gonna say the same. 1:00:53 You know, I, it's, I think it's tough to say what's going to happen going forward. I'd be really curious. 1:01:00 To see, you know, what small brands are seeing the impact of this right now? 1:01:06 Immediately, 1:01:09 you know, like anything, I think there's the initial shock of it, but then, you know, demand is demand. So if that means to 20% increase in price or whatever the case might be, if the demand is there 1:01:21 over time might cause that to, you know, to become a non issue. But, but it's a barrier of entry as a starting point. So when you think about bourbon growing on a global scale, and the potential it has on a global scale, you know, certainly that's a pretty 1:01:40 pretty immediate, you know, block of have taken that first step for a lot of you know, a lot of these brands on that larger scale. You know, what if you see this go on for a period of time, then suddenly it goes away, you know, do you have the opposite impact you have suddenly a flood of, you know, a flood of opportunity, a flood 1:02:00 brands that are saying, Okay, now this opportunity just opened up, we're going to put pressure on actually doing this. Because if you think about all the brands that are out there, especially the small ones, how many of them are actually taking those steps right now to get overseas? I'd be curious out of this 1000 or 1200 distilleries. You know, in the US, for example, how many you're saying, Let's get on the shelves in Europe, or let's get on the shelves in Australia or Japan or whatever the case might be? China, what's the market like over there? But it will be interesting to see how it plays out, you know, like anything, it's it's a global economy, we're going to see the push and pull. And I think ultimately, the long term play for bourbon for us whiskey is to be probably bigger than scotch, quite frankly, I personally think is better, you know, so there's no really no reason why it can't be bigger or at least just as big it's just a matter of time and what you know, things are going to have to move and shift around and what dominoes are going to have to fall in when 1:03:00 can't allow that to, you know, to really gain some momentum and happen. Bourbons got a long way before it catches scotch. And I'll tell you like, this is why this is why the tariffs are so frustrating to me is that, you know, bourbon became a unique product to the United States largely in part because they were trying to get special designation so they would not get tariffs after world to the country, the rest of the world basically tariff bourbon and open the open the markets for scotch to help the United Kingdom recover from World War Two because, you know, they were bombed and everything, they took a much greater hit on the physical real estate of their country. And, and so they were places like Argentina, you know, was terrifying us like 200% United Kingdom actually had like limits of bourbon that they would allow in the country for a given year. And when they would actually when the bourbon distillers would push to like, you know, have exports. You know, the French basically came back and said, 1:04:00 Why would we give you any kind of anything carefree when bourbon doesn't mean anything to us? Like you have no special designation, of course the French, you know being the home of cognac and Champagne has a very unique understanding of like designation for alcohol. And and so in 1958, they started the bourbon industry started banding together and working to make bourbon, a unique product in the United States. And after that in 1964, they then had the ability to negotiate and free trade agreements to peel away tar

What happens when you get master distillers from two largest rivaling brands together? Actually, some pretty good jokes. Fred Noe, Master Distiller at Jim Beam, and Jeff Arnett, Master Distiller at Jack Daniel’s, take the stage at Bourbon and Beyond to field questions asked by Fred Minnick. They talk about BBQ, celebrities, mash bills, the Lincoln County Process, and if Jack Daniels is actually a bourbon. Bourbon and Beyond 2019 will take place September 20th through the 22nd so if you want to be there in person to hear sessions like today’s podcast, go get yours at BourbonandBeyond.com. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits.  In 2013, Joe Beatrice launched Barrell Craft Spirits without a distillery or defied conventional wisdom. To this day, his team sources and blends exceptional barrels from established producers and bottles at cask strength. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about drinking in moderation. What kind of music have your brands been part of? What is your BBQ connection? What is the history of your distillery? What is your mash bill? What is your proof point off the still? What do you think of the Lincoln County process? How do you train your tour guides? Tell us about Gentleman Jack. Tell us about Jim Beam. Is Jack Daniels a bourbon? Do you ever feel competitive against each other? What does your average day look like? What was it like to hang out with Mila Kunis? What celebrities are connected to Jack Daniels? How often do you introduce new products? 0:00 Hey everybody. If you have a bachelor's degree and live anywhere in the United States, there's now a way for you to take your bourbon education to the next level. The distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville is an online program that can be completed in as little as 15 weeks and will prepare you for the business side of the spirits industry. It's offered by the AA CSP accredited college of business. And this certificate was developed in partnership with industry experts to be one of a kind and it's going to prepare you for your next adventure. Learn more about this online program at business.louisville.edu/online 0:36 spirits Why is that? Why your barbecue sauce the Jim Beam barbecue sauce tastes so good. America's Got Jim Beam in it that's why 0:47 you made for it. And have you had the jab he had the jack daniels barbecue sauce. I'm sure they do. Um, no. I mean, if you had a VDD like Tyson Yeah. 1:00 add Whiskey and anything it's good for 1:16 everybody welcome back. This is Episode 214 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny and buckle in strap up whatever it is because we've got a lot of news to roll through. Kentucky al has announced the release of batch number three rye this Kentucky out Kentucky straight rye whiskey carries a 10 year age statement and will be bottled at 114 proof in the press release Dixon dead man who's been on the show previously and episodes 27 and 160 has assumed the title of Kentucky Al's master blender, but he commented, there is a lot of older juice and right number three, but it's the 10 year old stocks that really give it that richer, thicker, syrupy mouthful and bring the blend forward. And as you know by listening to this 2:00 That the youngest whiskey in a blend is the one has to be shown in the label. So this will be making its way out to major markets across the US this month with a suggested retail price of wait for it $199 and 99 cents. Last week I had the opportunity of joining the fine folks over a liquor barn here in Louisville to select the very first of not just any barrels, but the very first barrels from a newly launched single barrel program. From bullet bourbon. We had the opportunity to tour the grounds and do some blending for fun. And during that blending process. There was one that just blew me away. I picked it up and I just knows that and I couldn't set it down. I just kept smelling this bourbon and I kept tasting and I told the master Blender whatever is going on here with sample number six. Just give me this single barrel and call it a day. Come to find out. They gave us samples of 20 plus year stencil well a stock that they had sitting around to just have some fun with blending. But you better believe I took no part in 3:00 lending that in savored every last drop. It was a tease, but a special treat nonetheless to have that experience with those folks there. Then we headed down to the barrel tasting room where we had different barrels and different bottles with different mash bills and different strains to come away with a total of three different barrels. And these will be available at liquor barn locations across the state of Kentucky in a few months, and I'll be sure to let you know when they do drop. Last week we had the opportunity to head over to Bardstown, Kentucky, where we were in a very unique opportunity to select two barrels of Elijah Craig from six that were rolled out. For anyone that has been on a quick pic before you know that three is usually the standard. We are fortunate that the heaven Hill team pulled some strings and got us a six barrel lot. We came away with an 11 and a 12 year old bourbon and both were just killer at barrel proof. But we also proved it down to us bottling proof of 94 just to make sure it's still held up and of course it did look forward to these going on sale to our 4:00 Patreon community in the upcoming few months, and a special shout out to keg and bottle in Southern California for making this all happen. Find out more about our barrel pics and what we have going on@patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit and you can find out more and get bourbon delivered to your door from keg and bottle go to keg the letter in bottle.com. And speaking of barrel pics, we had one go on sale this week, our riff you like a hurricane from new roof is going to be available to purchase to our Patreon community. Now you've heard it on the podcast already but we will be in Frankfurt at bourbon on the banks next week, August 24. Go get your tickets. We hope to see you there because we're going to have our own booth will be talking about bourbon pursuit. However, we will also be sampling our pursuit series for all those who haven't gotten the memo yet. And speaking of pursuit series, it's now official. We will be bottling our first Kentucky bourbon next month that will go on sale sometime in the October timeframe. And we're ecstatic to be the first time 5:00 let you know that we have partnered with Will it distillery to bring this experience to you? I know it's still surreal to even hear myself say that we're partnering with Will it and we purchased two barrels of their high rye bourbon recipe that will be bottled as pursuit series. Cats drink non chill filtered the works, you know how it is in this high recipe. It's not even available to liquor stores or distributors that are selecting their own bullet family private state pics right now. So we feel super excited and super lucky to be able to bring this as a one off offering of what we're able to do. And we selected not just one but two of these barrels two months ago and they just landed our bottling facility this week. We're going to be the first independent bottle of Willett distillate and who knows how many years and we've got more news to announce with this but we're gonna have to make you wait just a little bit longer until we cross our T's and dot our I's. Now today's podcast it was recorded last year at bourbon and beyond in 2018. 6:00 Since we were there, sort of in a passive capacity, we had one session, but we didn't have the ability to kind of record. We got this after the fact and that means we don't have any video. So if you're watching this on YouTube or Facebook, I'm sorry. It's like we're going back one and a half years before we started doing video. But if you're on the road or you're running or you're just listening to audio as usual, then just continue as normal. But as you know, verb and beyond is just around the corner. It's taking place next month in Louisville, Kentucky from September 20 through the 22nd. The festival has expanded from two to three days and you will get the chance to see a lot of familiar faces there. Ryan and I will both be moderating panels. And you've also got the entire roundtable making a presence. Jordan from breaking bourbon, Brian from sipping corn and Blake from bourbon are all leading their own panels and workshops. Of course, you're gonna have Fred Minnick there too. It's an opportunity to drink some bourbon, listen to some bands, go listen to a bourbon workshop or seminar then go back out there and rock out was the headliners. 7:00 This is covered in a single ticket price. So if you want to be there in person to hear sessions like today's podcast, go get yours now at bourbon and beyond.com. We'll see you in Louisville. Also, let's toast a bourbon to the weather gods and hope for no rain and clear skies this year. Now, let's see what Joe from barrel bourbon has for us today. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 7:25 Hey everyone, Joe here again. In 2013. I launched barrell craft spirits without a distillery and defied conventional wisdom. To this day, my team and I sourcing blend exceptional barrels from established producers and bottle a cast strength. You can find it on the shelves at your nearest retail store. 7:41 I'm Fred making this is above the charm. This past week in the Philippines, a lawmaker put forth a bill to ban the sale serving and consumption of alcohol and alcohol beverages and streets, pathways, plazas, alleys, sidewalks, parks and parking areas. They're building 8:00 leaf is is that this will be a proactive response in the growing problems of alcoholism in the Philippine. And this is a quote directly from a doctor, their alcoholism and violence have clearly become key public health issues that require urgent attention. Hence, it is imperative for the country to initiate a national policy to curb alcohol consumption in public places in quote. So here's the thing Philippines, this has been done before. And it didn't work, prohibition in the United States basically open the world to the mafia. And it also showed that it didn't really curb drinking at all. What it did do was it increased the sale of bad liquor, and people would die from drinking the equivalent of ethanol or gasohol. And today when we see areas where there are dry counties, you have moonshiners, so people will find a way to drink 9:00 And I'll also say this, that the efforts to ban alcohol or alcohol advertising, they're growing. And they're growing because we have never really been able to figure out as a society, how to drink responsibly. So, when you're getting your fellas together your girlfriends together, think about this for a moment, you could be an example used of drinking responsibly. What does that mean? Well, Google drinking in moderation, you definitely don't want to get behind the wheel. To me, a big part of drinking in moderation comes down to the taste. I like to sip and savor and analyze every single molecule that's hitting my palate. And that's been a big reason why I've been able to develop my palate using mindfulness techniques. I also believe that there's a project out there called the mocktail project that would be great to include in your parties that would help push the drinking in moderation and someone sober, doesn't want to have a drink. They can have a 10:00 mocktail that's basically a folk cocktail. That's just as tasty as the cocktail would. And of course, the culture. We live in a society that does not want to educate young people why they cannot drink until they're 21. I have a five year old and he can tell you exactly why he is not able to consume the same bourbon that his father and mother do. Now, I'm not saying that parenting is easy, but I do think it's important that we educate our children that alcohol is not the devil. It is not some evil thing that demons cast upon you and the only way to not be caught up in its evil spell is to avoid it. And all honesty, if we just teach our children that drinking is bad for your body until you reach a certain age and your body is able to handle it. To me that is a more appropriate and honest and truthful way to bring someone up in this world. But 11:00 It's just easier to band stuff. Just ask the Philippines. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred Minnick, that's at Fred Minnick until next week. Cheers 11:18 gentlemen please take your seats to my left here is Jeff our debt master distiller for jack daniels. 11:28 And to my other left, Fred noe master distiller for Jim Beam. 11:37 Gentlemen, it is such a privilege and honor to MC what is an absolutely historic seminar, jack and Jim, what's the difference? The two world best selling American whiskeys. This is awesome. Now, both of you all have had a lot 12:00 of musical connections. Tell us let's see what the difference is starting there. From the music perspective. What kind of music has Jim been been a part of? Well, I guess the first one was my dad met Hank Williams Jr. So it got a little name that's a little name drop right there. And you know we've played with McGovern Gentry for a long time country. And then we're trying to ease into the rock a little bit with Nickelback. And in our latest buddy was a kid rock. So we've, we've kind of hit different john years of music so you like people who like to drink? mostly people like to drink Jim Beam. All right. 12:46 All right, Jeff. Now, I think there's a musician that's pretty well connected the jack daniels. What's the history there? Well, if you go back in our history, it goes all the way to our founder who was pretty world traveled considering he was born. 13:00 In a small town in Lynchburg, Tennessee, so he purchased some instruments he created a group called the silver cornet band had them play on the square in Lynchburg because he learned that music and whiskey and kind of go together. They're both very social. So he's kind of solved the connection. So it began very early for us, but I think the game changer and jack daniels history was back in the 1950s when Frank Sinatra first held up jack daniels on stage, he called it the nectar of the gods. Our sales doubled from 1955 to 1956. But he was a lifelong jack daniels drinker. It was after that as you started to see jack daniels not just don't rock stages and music stages, but also in a lot of movies. But Frank was loyal to death. He literally was buried with a bottle of jack daniels in his casket. So we were honored to come out with a whiskey that that honored his love of the brand a few years ago. Now there's also some photos of like Jimmy Page, drinking. jack daniels backstage, the Rolling Stones. 14:00 Lemmy from Motorhead slash from Guns and Roses. These are people that are pretty iconic, you know in the rock world. And definitely love jack daniels and we have we're very fortunate we've got a lot of people in music who love jack daniels. And once we find that out, we don't feel like they should have to buy jack daniels t shirt, so I write a lot of letters and send out a lot of T shirts to people to thank them for their love. Now, Fred, jack daniels used to employ a guy who made sure that Frank Sinatra always had jack daniels. Has Jim Beam ever done anything like that? What do you mean my chili Goblin like? So there was a gentleman from our buddies right? Frank Sinatra. Never he always had a case of jack daniels nearby. So they employed someone who basically from what I understand, just basically drove around with him made sure he was always with jack daniels are we when people are on tour, whatever market they're in, our sales force shows up and breezes them pretty well. So your 15:01 I haven't heard any of them complain about not getting plenty of Jim Beam. Alright, so that's, that's just a little touch on the music about what's the difference between YouTube. You're also both really big into barbecue. really big into barbecue. Now Jeff, I was a judge with you last year at the big jack daniels BBQ. Tell us about your big barbecue connection is jack daniels. Yes, we the fourth Saturday in October. in Lynchburg. We sponsor what we consider to be the Super Bowl of barbecue. It comes very late in the season for the Kansas City barbecue society circuit. But it's the top 80 teams typically 20 of those have come from outside the US. So they're representing countries like Switzerland, Estonia, Canada, Australia, England, but usually it's about 50 or 60 of the best us teams who show up there to win the jack daniels international Invitational barbecue is a great time. I know and I have served as a judge on 16:00 The shade tree only where I judged the major meat categories, but I could hardly walk. When I got up on the table that day. I did not pace myself very well, but 42 samples in about three hours and you better know what you're doing. So I know we've got some judges out here in the audience today who were looking on who can attest to that. 16:18 Now, Fred, you are a great barbecue pit man. You're also a great ham maker. You've got a personal connection to barbecue and why is that? Why your barbecue sauce? The Jim Beam barbecue sauce tastes so good. Because God ZM Amen. And that's why 16:40 you made for it. And have you had the jab. He had the jack daniels barbecue sauce. I'm sure they do know I mean, if you had ever 16:49 seen it, do you like their Tyson? 16:53 whiskey and anything? It's good Jeffrey, what's wrong with you? 16:58 Does anyone 16:59 know 17:00 Go customer for was over. Yeah, well, I had a plus or minus, you know, I should have said we should have a cuss word counter out there with you. You know, are you sorry, I'm a potty mouth. We can trust Jeff to be a gentleman but Fred boy, he can get go. I'm not a scholar, so don't even go there. 17:18 Now both come from very historic distilleries. Very, very historic. Tell us about how jack Daniel got started. Well, for those who don't know jack daniels life story. He was orphaned at a very young age, so he found himself without either his biological parents when he was a young teenager. 17:38 He was one of 13 children born to his father, one of 10 born to his mother, but he ended up moving away to work for his room and board on a neighbor's farm. That neighbor was a Lutheran minister and a farmer. More importantly, he owned the general store that still stands on the square in Lynchburg today, and of course back in the 1850s and 60s, small town general stores had to serve a lot of functions. 18:00 And that community had to be a small scale department store had to swear you picked up telegrams, but also would be the pharmacy of the community. So jack started out making medicinal whiskey for a Lutheran minister that was sold to the townspeople of Lynchburg at the general store. So from very, very modest beginnings, he was out there for at least a decade perfecting the craft and ultimately bought the distilling equipment and moved it to where we are today and that happened in the 1870s. So you know, in jack daniels history, other than prohibition every drop of jack daniels has been made from a cave spring in Lynchburg, Tennessee. It's one of the things I think that makes us really special. It's one of the reasons why we're is I think, consistent as we are. It's a great water source and and the townspeople of Lynchburg have made it their passion to carry on the mission of jack daniels in his absence since he he passed in 1911. And since since we've been able to become the number one selling American whiskey today. So Fred, you guys also 19:00 Have a lot of your connection to your family's history is also connected to the water. Tell us about that. Yeah, our, I guess my great great great, great grandfather Jacob been migrated into Kentucky a little place called harden Creek. And they were given away land to get people to come this way from the northeast. That's how bad things were back then they were given land away, just to come in here and grow corn. Yeah. And what is now the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Jacob came down, got his parcel of land. He was a Miller of grain. Then he found out making whiskey was a good way to preserve preserve the grain. In fact, come to find out is whiskey making skills were better and more profitable than the milling of grain. So our family started making whiskey. Oh jacobin. And then as time went on, and railroad came through, his son moved it to Bardstown. Then prohibition came along shut off 20:00 is down 20:02 and along with a lot of other folks here in Kentucky, and after prohibition, Jim Beam started the old Murphy barber distillery backup spot right down here in Clermont, where he had been milling are grinding stone, limestone rock, there was a big spring there and a distillery. And so that's where we got moved from Harding Creek to Bardstown to Claremont, where we are today, and eight generations later, we're still there. So we're looking at both water sources. They're both limestone filter, they both very come from really strong natural areas of limestone, filtered x, you know, great access to the water. So we have a lot of similarities here. You know, from a cultural perspective, they're both very involved with music. They're both very involved in barbecuing, you've got some cool barbecue competitions as well. You both got barbecue sauces, and there's a lot of connections there. And then the water is pretty much 21:00 The same. Now let's talk about the recipes a little bit. Now, Jeff, I love you. You'll tell me exactly what your recipe is your mash bill, Fred, what's the Jim Beam? mash bill? How many years you've been trying to get that out of me for it. 21:14 I figured this would be the moment you would open up and share it. Not when I put me in that coffin, they might give it to you. I'm not going to give it to you because I know you want it so damn bad. It's true. It is I do want to bend the thing is Fred. If I gave you numbers, they ended up to 100 would you know if I was telling the truth? 21:34 I would make you put your hand on my book and swear it's the truth. So it's the book of bourbon. It would have to be the truth. wouldn't have to be shit. 21:46 fishes out for you. It has been a long time. It has been a long time. So let's just say that jack daniels is very sharing with their recipes. With now they share it and you guys been very protective of it for me for years. 22:00 But we can say that you're at least 75% corn. 22:06 You're more than 51% corn. Now we're more bitty 1% or then 51% corn. I'm not giving anything. Okay, because pretty soon as at how much raw, oh, you'll be able to figure it out but give you with this with the gentleman from Tennessee tell us from the mash mill recipe for jack daniels. I will you know, with the exception of the raw whiskey that we've just introduced, that's a 70% raw 18% corn and 12% malted barley pretty much everything that you've ever had from jack daniels shares what we call the old number seven rest, right? It's 80% corn is 12% malted barley and 8%. Raw. And I know Fred doesn't want to talk about it. But I would just say in general, jack daniels is about a half to a third of the typical raw content of a Kentucky bourbon. So when you start to contrast and maybe some of the differences, obviously whiskey and Kentucky bourbon that it begins at the grain, there was a deliberate choice to maybe go a little bit less on this 23:00 Ice that would be associated with Ryan going a little bit higher and corn and make it a little bit sweeter. So jack tends to push out into that sweet range a little bit. I think it's fair to say, I think I know your grain bill, but I won't tell anybody 23:12 with a brother, Jeff, you can say it here. No one's listening. No one's watching right now. They used to talk about it. 23:20 Actually, Chuck Cowdery had a good story about your dad and the issue of bourbon plus over there, you gotta go check that out. But sorry, so are our mash bills. The recipes are pretty close, you know, so they're pretty close to being the same them. And then let's look at the distillation perspective. You guys are both using column stills both using column stills. What are you coming off the still at what's your what's your proof point office Still, we we actually all of our stills are made out of copper. So there are columns still each is equipped with a blur, so it'll be a single pass but a double distillation process. We target 140 points. 24:00 roof and with the still design that we have, we can maintain that plus or minus one proof point. So we have a really tight range around our target. So 131 to 139 would be the range 140 is the target. What is your office still proof? Jim Beam? Yeah, that's where we'll change our taste is with distillation strength. But we go off the first distillation 125 second distillation 135. OK, so again, both very similar in distillation technique. And now med one med 132 to 140. And by law, they cannot go any higher than 160 proof. So that's actually telling you right there that they are deliberately going lower, so you can get some more of the characteristic from the grain in there. So they're both doing very unique things. And now 24:57 we get to that point where we start saying 25:00 A difference. Now, Fred, you you guys go and get Maple charcoal and filter your whiskey right before it right? No, wait, no, that's not Jim Beam. That's jack daniels. 25:13 Did you do any damn research before you? 25:20 Sometimes I apologize for my buddy here, you know, what do you think of the Lincoln County process? I mean, yeah, it's tradition. That's what I do. It's good. That's what makes them special. Well, do you like it? I enjoy what they do what they make. 25:38 So tell us about the Lincoln County process. And by the way, I didn't know I was trying to set 25:43 it up there a little bit. You know, even though Today we're in the second smallest county in the state of Tennessee, both by population and geography. You'll hear this charcoal Melling process often referred to as the Lincoln County process. So we're in Moore County, but don't get confused back in the 1860s lunch. 26:00 was in a larger county called Lincoln County. More county wasn't formed until the 1870s. But this was a regional variant of bourbon. It was just something that that popped up among local distillers and back in Jack's day, even though we're the only one you'll find there today. Back in Jack's day, there were dozens of different distilleries littered throughout the hills around Lynchburg taking advantage of the limestone water that we have in abundance there. But they began to charcoal filter 26:29 right after they would distill the whiskey and before they would put it in a barrel they would filter it through hard sugar maple charcoal became the variety of wood that was most preferred. People have asked me before the jack us any other different types of wood other than hard sugar maple and I wish I could answer that question. I think if he were here today, that's probably one of my top questions that I would have is what all did you experiment with before you settled there, but I will tell you this about hard sugar maple it's an indigenous word. It's all throughout the hills around Lynchburg. So it's it's a 27:00 easy to find, even after 150 years that we've been out cutting it and burning it for charcoal. The key advantage that I see from it is that it's a very low ash wood. And we're going Of course, we're going to take our whiskey through that. So we don't want a lot of ash coming out of the charcoal getting into the whiskey and going into the barrel. Today with modern technology, we could process that away if we needed to. But what I noticed is that there's really not much in the way of ash that comes off of it. So oak actually has quite a bit of ash. Maple does not so jack was not just known to use hard sugar maple in the charcoal mellowing process, but he felt that it was very important to change it frequently because he recognized that it was like a sponge and eventually a sponge will get full and get saturated. And so you need to do more than just pass through charcoal, the charcoal needs to be fresh enough to make a difference. So we're tasting our events every week, changing it out on the frequency necessary to make sure that it's making the difference removing the fatty acids cleans up 28:00 The grainy knows it comes off much lighter, sweeter on the foot, both on the palate and also on the nose. 28:07 Fred, I don't know about you, but I heard I listened to the process and I've seen it before a million times. And it just sounds like so much more work. 28:18 I mean, do you think that's why in Kentucky that they stopped using that process? We're just a little lazier probably 28:26 wouldn't have gotten around or in the 1700s. I mean, look at them. Oh, but I'm not really. But now. I mean, that's just that's what Jeff and them do. And I've always done it. So we use it. We used to do it in Kentucky. You know, the the bill distillers actually used to do a similar process in the 1800s. It just did not. It was not very popular here. And so it went away. We did some charcoal filtering after aging. Yeah, to kind of smooth out some of the whiskies back in the old days, but now we've done some different different techniques and filtering now 29:00 Your tour guides Jeff. They like the lumps and mortar rounds toward Kentucky. And they just say this makes us better. Kentucky bourbon. Yeah. Now I gotta say as a Kentucky and although I tried to be neutral and is my skin crawls a little bit when your tour guide start making fun of Kentucky now what do you trade? What he traded him over there? Well, of course I think it's friendly competition. I think it forces us both to be the very best at our game. And I think people when when we feel like we need to step up our game and mind our P's and Q's to make a better product. You know, I know that we've had people who've come and taking the tour jack daniels who've recently taken the Kentucky bourbon trail and some of them have come up and tell me that I asked the tour guide. They wouldn't say which distillery it was. But you know, why isn't that y'all don't charcoal mellow like jack daniels does. And the standard response you'll get is that all hail that's, that is nothing but a shortcut. And of course, I looked up shortcut. I looked up the definition of IO and it's amazing guy 30:00 was Fred know, well supposed to say shortcuts are supposed to save you time or money or both. And it's something that we invest days in that we spend over a million dollars buying wood and burning it and replacing it. So it's it's something we're pretty passionate about. But it's to Fred's point, it's one of those things that makes a Tennessee whiskey unique. It makes it worth exploring. The same way I think, you know, no, to Kentucky barbers are pretty much going to taste the same. This was something that was a regional choice to make Tennessee whiskey is different. And it's something that we feel like we perfected over the years and that we're pretty proud that we still do today. All right, let's go through our tasting here. The one on your lap if I'm correct, is jack daniels. My right so we can be? Yeah, the one on your left is jack daniels. For us up on stage is the one that's closest to you. Are you going to be You got it? 30:49 I got so we're serving here is a gentleman jack. Can you tell us a little bit about gentleman jack? Yeah, of course as a Tennessee whiskey, we charcoal mellow and we were talking 31:00 about that process being somewhat different than what they do in Kentucky to make a bourbon but that's right after we distill whiskey and right before we put it in a barrel, it slowly passes through 10 feet of hard sugar maple charcoal. So that's this is the distinct step that we do that makes jack daniels at Tennessee whiskey with gentleman jack. This was our first new whiskey since prohibition we introduced it in 1988. It was the only whiskey that we've ever done. We had charcoal melt it twice so it gets one pass of charcoal before it goes in the barrel it gets another one after it's been fully matured in the barrel and before it's bottle. So this is the double mellowed version of jack daniels. And what you'll notice about it is that it has a very distinct absence of oak finish. For people who a lot of times if people struggle with bourbon or with whiskies in general it will do it will have to do with the aftertaste of oak, some people find it pleasant, that's what makes them like bourbon for other people. It's a block. It's a reason why they can enjoy it. So gentlemen, jack was literally meant to be an approachable form of whiskey. 32:00 Using charcoal all natural this is. This is all water grains, barrel and charcoal. So there's nothing artificial added in here. But this kind of displays the art of mellowing by doing it twice. All right, Fred, what do you think? I'm Dyson idea. What do you been doing the whole time? I've been smelling that I All right. Yeah, that's fine. 32:21 I think I drank the whole damn thing. 32:25 That's bullshit. Yeah, when it comes when it comes to this one in particular, I often describe it as being very, very clean, 32:33 uncomplicated, but it has almost a citrus banana nose on it has an absence of the earthy wood notes in it. Very clean and light. The great Lincoln Henderson actually had a big hand in the development of gentleman jack he did Lincoln work for brown Coleman for 40 years. So between the people of Lynchburg and all the the whiskey making expertise we have at Brown Forman, which of course includes some great bourbon brands and now also scotch whiskey and a new Irish whiskey. 33:00 Brand we we cover the whiskey world pretty well today except with the exception of Japanese whiskey. We even have Canadian. So we're a whiskey company at our core. So Lincoln Henderson is the founding master distiller for both angel's envy and Woodford Reserve. He's in the bourbon Hall of Fame he passed away in 2013. great man. So there's a little bit of a bourbon iconic figure connected to that whiskey now let's taste a little bit of Jim Beam here. This is the this is the one we see Mila Kunis talking about all the time. 33:33 This mask about you know the person this is the world's best whiskey their words not ours, according to see. Yeah. So what let's look at the Mila Kunis and a little bit but tell us about what we're drinking here with the Jim Beam black champion. Black is our gym being Nashville. Which I'm not going to tell you Fred. I know. 33:57 You're not one. But we do. We aged long. 34:00 RGM been white label stays in the barrel for years. This is a six year taste profile. So we're putting barrels that are older than six, some that are six, and some are a little younger than six. That way we keep the product on the shelf with a domain curve. All right, I got it. I got interrupted here. I gotta interrupt you. Okay, there wasn't once upon a time it had an eight year old age statement on there. If you go back farther, it had 101 months. 34:29 History he was ready for me damn right. 34:32 Fred you remember we've done this ship before? Yeah. 34:36 You ain't sent me out man. I might. 34:39 I might look dumb, but it's just a disguise. 34:43 I still you know, the thing is, it took me a while to get over by still buy it. I'm glad to see it. But the big thing on this ad it's 86 proof. So it's got more age, higher strength. So gets a little bit more of what and I think bourbon is all about no more word. 35:00 Which I did notice gentlemen jack doesn't have that much wood on the nose and finish. But I mean if you want a little more the if you like the oak, then you know the Jim Beam black is more than the GMBYI Let's take a taste. You didn't do that good talking to you in the jack daniels Did you? Yes sir. Oh you did I miss that. You want to watch it? Should you always try to set me up? I'm not trying to set you up. So now here I am trying to set you up. You're setting me up. Here we go. No, I'll give you the my spiel is a drink thing. I'm drunk enough to give me that loaded. Sorry. 35:34 Is jack daniels a bourbon? 35:39 Hey, it's Kenny here. And I want to tell you about an event that's happening on Saturday, August 24. Because I want to see you in historic downtown Frankfort, Kentucky at bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. There's live music and over 100 vendors of food, beer, wine, and of course, bourbon. But 36:00 Guess what even will be there in the bourbon pursuit booth. You can check out all the events including tastings with the master distillers that you've heard on the show before and the People's Choice Award for the Best bourbon out there. You can get your all inclusive ticket for $65. Plus, you can join on the free Friday night event. Go and check it out. bourbon on the banks.org there are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever before. 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Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 37:24 Is jack daniels a bourbon? 37:26 Well, no, I mean, let's look on the label. You see the word BOURBON on her anywhere. It's in the North American Free Trade Agreement. 37:36 I political Oh, man. 37:40 Come on. JACK. Is jack daniels a bourbon? You know, according to NAFTA? Yes, it is. Oh, there we go. Thank you so much for coming. If you want to trust if you want to trust the view of our government, you know, you'd have to say that it is if you want to make your own decision about that. That's fine too. But if you look at everything in the federal 38:00 codes that define what a bourbon whiskey is. There are no exceptions when it comes to what jack daniels is our grain bill in the fact that were made in America, our grain bill, our distillation proved the fact that we only use new barrels or even make barrels for ourselves as a whiskey company. The only way to do that there's nothing that would disqualify us. But there's always been this argument that well, if you go to charcoal mellowing, it does distinctly change the spirit. Yeah, it changes the nose. It changes the mouth feel of it. And the actually it was the US government. Back in 1941. Who petition jack daniels This was after prohibition it ended. They wanted us to change our label from jack daniels, Tennessee whiskey to bourbon, they were trying to kind of go around and clean up who's operations and what they were being labeled as and they said, we've looked at your process. There's no exceptions. The what defined is bourbon, so why not just re label yourself so they submitted samples before and after charcoal mellowing, my salespeople actually offer those educationally today. 39:00 And they tasted it. This was the alcohol Bureau in Washington DC there actually was such a thing back then they tasted the product. 39:08 Government, they wrote us a letter, and 1941 that basically says we've tasted your product. And we have to agree that you don't have the character that's typical of bourbon whiskey. Therefore, if you want to label yourself a Tennessee whiskey, we won't contest it any longer. And of course, the US government has a way of changing their minds. So we can we've kept a copy of that letter just as evidence that we don't want to revisit that. We feel like the arguments been one. But we all we also say that it gives us hope, because it's the one evidence that we have in the last 75 years that our US government got any decision right. So we take that one 39:44 political angle. 39:46 You don't get me in trouble jail. Fred, I know is going to get me in trouble. So Jeff, 39:54 do you ever get tired of people asking you that question? Is jack daniels a bourbon? No, no, no. 40:00 Really I think as long as people are curious, that's part of the battle. You know, for the longest time whiskey from the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s whiskeys were all the rage. You know, the whiskey cocktails were what people ordered. But then we saw some pretty lean years as whiskey brands, the 70s, or the 80s 90s and 2000s. Were not necessarily so kind. So I think just having people to be bourbon curious. 40:26 Whiskey curious. 40:29 As part of the battle, you know, I always say if we can make whiskey interesting, collectively, but the rising tide will raise all ships. So I feel like jack daniels success doesn't necessarily have to come at the expense of Jim beam's. And I think probably Fred would say the same. That we can both have extremely successful brands because we we do have unique flavors, we have unique brands. And that's going to appeal more or less to different individuals. But I think just having people be curious about whiskey is the biggest part of the battle if they're open to trying it. I think they're 41:00 Something in the whiskey category that are going to like, all right, Do you guys ever feel competitive against each other, like you want to own the well over the other? 41:10 You know, the thing that, you know, the guys in production, were buddies, sales guys on the street. That's another damn store. 41:21 I mean, I'd have to agree. You know, Fred. Now, this is very rare that we would be on the same stage together. But we met about eight or nine years ago, in Berlin. It was amazing, because I think that was Fred's first comments. That means like, we're a state apart, and we had to come all the way to Germany to even meet. So we, we were at the Berlin bartenders convention and had a chance to actually we were representing American whiskey versus the other categories of global whiskey. So we decided against the devil Yeah, instead of having the fence between us. We were actually on the same side of the fence there. So we were we were in violent agreement I remember about the importance of limestone water and mixing up grains and using new 42:00 barrels, making it all natural not using colorings or flavorings and things of that nature. So, you know, there's so many things that are common about Jim Beam and jack daniels, of course, the one variant being charcoal mellowing, and people can decide if that's right for them. But I think as long as they're willing to to order a whiskey, there's a good chance that they're going to like something there. There we were, essentially, Jeff and me against the world. I don't think we did pretty damn good. 42:28 Well, we were lucky, because it was in Germany, and Jim Beam is pretty strong in Germany. And so all our sales people were kind of on one side and they were probably a little drunk. I think. 42:41 I think there's one thing we could agree to I actually have some friends who are what I call Doomsday errs, you know, who created fallout shelters who got Mr. ease and, you know, bottled water stacked up to the ceiling. And a lot of them have basically told me that I'm not I'm not hoarding cash. I'm basically putting bottles of jack daniels. 43:00 Whiskey and stuff like that because if the currency fails, they're absolutely certain that a bottle of whiskey is always going to be worth something regardless of what happens. 43:11 But but but Baka would not be. Yeah, I think if we go back to bartering, it's gonna be good to be in the whiskey business. What do you say? 43:19 Bam, right? You get more with a bottle of whiskey and you can handle the money. I guarantee it. 43:27 Well, gentlemen, it's been a real pleasure here. This is such a rare opportunity to have these two on the stage. I would actually like to take some questions from the audience how bad it would you like some light shirt from folks like that some questions? 43:42 Anybody have any questions out there? 43:45 What is a regular day for Fred? No. And Jeff Barnett. 43:51 I get up about 630 here down the August 1 thing, look at emails is like every other person. So do 44:00 Deal with meetings conference calls. And then I get to have fun and go down to the distillery. taste a little white dog right off the steel and then usually hit by the lab and taste some as liquor and then hang out at our visitor center, shake hands, take pictures, sand bottles, and then hit home but then the day they send me to 44:25 your liquor stores and bars, all days signing bottles, taking pictures, doing presentations, I'm sure Jeff's when he's on the west side. I'm usually on the east. 44:37 That same place. 44:39 You can see who's been ahead of you when you go into a liquor store. You see bottles on the shelf that have been signed by Jeff Arnett or Jimmy Russell or whoever is it well shit, I'm definitely behind him. You know, don't put dates on them so you don't know. Or maybe x coming. I'm not going to store and see bottles son from the last visit. And I think what shipping 45:00 Selling enough 45:04 one too many 45:06 I got out they don't let you get away. You know I think the the one word in that question that that puzzles me the most is regular I don't know that I've ever had a regular day as a master distiller because every day is it's different to me I feel absolutely blessed to work for jack daniels you know I'm a native Tennessee and argue that is probably the best known product from our state so have to have any hand in working at jack daniels to me was a dream job. But 80% of my time is spent in Lynchburg. The one thing that I'm most fortunate about is that I don't have to travel between facilities we make every drop in one spot using a water source which allows me to keep everything as consistent as I feel like it needs to be. It allows us to leverage you know, employees who have you know, several generations of experience making whiskey I think that I'm not the strength of jack daniels it is the people of Lynchburg who've committed over the years since prohibition to 46:00 Keep the brand going and growing. But I do spend about 50 to 60 days a year out on the road. So, you know, you become a little bit of a 46:09 celebrity in the world of whiskey. You know, it's amazing what passes that celebrity, you know. But you know, to to a whiskey fan, they want to meet you, they want to get a photo, they want to get a signature. And that's it's always an honor to do that. But we are sold in 170 countries today in 10 years. I've actually by the end of this year, I'll have visited 39 countries so cover a lot of the ground in a few days of the year. So let's talk about celebrities for a second. Let's go to what's it like spending time with Mila Kunis? My one man 46:41 I mean, it could have been worse, you know? Now Mila she she came here to Kentucky a couple times and we hit it off right off the bat. You're gonna love this story. I might as well go on and tell it. Surely I won't get any trouble since I've already cursed a little bit going on with Mila first came. They wanted to make sure that our first 47:00 meeting was on film. They didn't want us to get to know each other. And so she came to our home there in Bardstown. She was in the house. They were getting her hair and makeup wardrobe. You know, I pretty much do all that stuff myself. I don't I don't have hairdressers that go with me, kind of no reason to me anyway. My wife went into the house and was talking to me over there and she had her dog when Mila and her boyfriend at that time, Ashton Kutcher had to put her dog sleeping on Neil or something. So she got pretty emotional was holding Sandy's dog. And she said, I'm a little nervous to work with your husband. And Sandy said, Why? She's a walk curse a lot. 47:45 And my wife said, You're good. 47:48 She's a no you don't understand. I say fuck a lot. 47:53 She said, You're still good. 47:58 Sandy came out 48:00 And she came on was laughing I said, What's the funny? So Amelia is nervous to work with you. I said Why? She was he causes a lot, so it's no big deal. I know what she's worried about saying fuck around you. So we did our little meeting. It was on film, everything was cool. Cut, take a break. I got her ear and I said fuck it. 48:22 We're gonna get along just fine, big boat. 48:25 That's how I was. I was tell someone that after having met Fred I realized he was truly a master of the English language because he can take the F bomb and use it as every form of the English language in one sentence. 48:40 Yeah, all right, Jeff, as I play bartender here on stage, why don't you tell us one of your celebrity stories? Oh, goodness. Um, you know, we're very fortunate. Like I said, we've had a lot of people especially in the music industry. We were fans of jack daniels. So especially in country music, a lot of people and they think of, of Tennessee. If they don't 49:00 Think of jack daniels when they think of Tennessee I think they largely think of country music so I've had a chance to spend time him he 49:08 music table we even work, you know had a chance to hang out with with Zac Brown and 49:14 and his wife and his children and also now with Eric church, and to find out that his wife literally grew up about 30 minutes from my hometown, and what real and really good people that they are. I think that I think that's the most surprising thing that I find is that celebrities are not a lot different than we are, you know, some of them maybe are but the ones that I've had the privilege of meeting I've been always really surprised at just how humble and what good people they are. And of course if they love jack daniels even better, we got plenty to talk about if they do. I know you. You are partial to the ones that favor Jim Beam and I definitely have a I feel like a big fan base out there both in Hollywood and all over the music industry, jack daniels as well represented there. All right, everybody. Let's have another question. Who's got a 50:00 Question out here. Yes, ma'am. Right here in the back. coming to you with the microphone. 50:06 How often do you introduce new products? And when will your next one be introduced? 50:12 I'll answer for jack daniels. You know, how often do we come up with new products? You know, for the longest time we didn't, we had one brand that carried us for over 100 years. We introduced gentleman jack in 1988. We introduced single barrel in 1997. We didn't introduce any new products from jack daniels for about 14 years. And that wasn't necessarily due to our lack of interest of offering new products. It was really more about is the market even wanting a new product from us? Are they happy with what they have, but as as whiskey has taken off again, I think that's what we're seeing has changed the most is that people do want to try a lot of different things, including the loyal jack daniels people and that includes, you know, our newest grain bill that's come out is raw. So we have two different versions of it to me that's that's our new product and for this year, that's what we're going to continue to focus on. 51:00 Because to me, I think it's very different for people who maybe have never been a fan of jack daniels before. Maybe one of the reasons is the fact that we're very low and raw. And if you do like a high raw whiskey, we now offer that, you know, jack daniels, you know, like I said, we're very fortunate we have just a rabid fan base. And I think besides Harley Davidson, we just recently got named the brand that's most likely to be tattooed on someone. So, you know, people have asked me why, why did you come out with a rye whiskey? And it's like, well, my fear was that there's going to be this big burly guy with a tattoo that says jack daniels on his arm, and he's gonna taste rye whiskey this out. He really likes that. So we need to give him a jack daniels option. That way, he's not going to have to go and get his tattoo taken off. So but you know, to answer that question, we've come out with one new product a year for the last seven years. So we've gone from three to 10 in a really short period. So we're just kind of trying to maybe decompress a little bit from doing that and focus on what we've got out there. We feel like we've got a really strong profile. 52:00 There's something in there that out of those 10 that I think everyone's gonna like. 52:05 Now you were about to dispute the tattooed thing for No, no, no, no, I asked him. I was going to ask Jeff for his was, oh, I couldn't show you on stage. I'm sorry. 52:17 Between me and my wife, you're lucky, you're lucky. 52:21 Now, we do a lot of innovations. 52:26 My son actually, Freddie, he's he's got a project who just had a baby, by the way, or his wife had a baby. Right? Congratulations, grandpa. 52:36 Paul, I was holding Booker last time. 52:39 It was kind of cool. But Freddie's got a brand called Little Book, which so my father called him from the time he was a baby. So every year, he's going to make a straight whiskey or straight spirit blend. And so every year it's going to be another chapter into chapter one was 52:59 either 53:00 No easy. The second one's no easy task. First one was the big easy, but he's taking spirit streams from within the beam Suntory portfolio around the world, which he's got a pretty unlimited canvas. When you look at all the whiskies we have which, with this year, he did a 40 year old Canadian 16 year old Canadian rap, an eight year old, Kentucky straight raw, 53:24 all cash strength, just like his grandfather. And so we're doing innovations, probably one or two a year. And then we'll within our play knob Creek will go we've done single barrel rise, single barrel Bourbons, can strength. We do different things, all limited releases, because folks like Jeff said, they want different stuff. They don't want the same thing over and over and over. If we see something that really hits hard, like we did a base right and dark raw, which was, oh, I've got an idea that we could maybe execute for next 54:00 years festival Why don't we do a blend of jack daniels and Jim Beam for bourbon and beyond 2019 54:09 I go say won't ever 54:12 talk somebody 54:15 and they'll tell you what how drunk were you to when you agreed to 54:23 have your people talk to my 54:26 so you get this ball rolling Fred 54:29 should we have it for next year? 54:34 I would say this so I think it when you're looking at Tennessee and Kentucky you're definitely looking at some of the world's best spirits when it comes to whiskeys and you can't go wrong if you will explore around I think you're going to find there's something they're just gonna like. Oh yeah, for sure. So what you're saying it's better than Canada. 54:50 Well, it's different than Canada we have different rules. We have Canadian whiskey brand is 54:56 people like and more power to them. We got scotch whiskey brands. 55:00 get us in trouble. Yeah, we got Canadian. You know, I've recently become a fan of shared scotches oh you know students don't smoke repeat but I'm open to trying new things. 55:11 Well gentlemen, if you all if anyone in the audience has anything lab, I know you to do. I just poured you like four fingers there. Grab what you have a lap. Let's toast it to, to Fred know and Jeff Barnett chairs and now you all 55:28 chairs Transcribed by https://otter.ai

We talk about private barrel selections being the new unicorns on this show all the time. But it begs the question, are we seeing so many private picks that the market is oversaturated? It seems like every week there is a new barrel in our city for sale, FOMO about some sweet sticker, or the secondary market has a crazy valuation on a normal single barrel selection. We examine all the components that go into getting single barrels such as the amount of influence from distributor reps, the amount of available barrels at the distilleries, and if you would buy from a big chain vs a small independent store. Will there ever be enough bourbon to go around and not over bloat the market? We’ll find out. Show Partners: At Barrell Craft Spirits, every release is intentionally unique, and can’t be duplicated. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Portugal. What got you into to buying private barrel picks? What's the landscape of private picks in DC? With the increase in stores wanting private picks, are some stores going to get shut out of the program? Do you think distilleries should be taking care of the bigger accounts over the smaller stores that started doing picks earlier? Is there a bias towards certain states? Would you want to buy a private barrel pick from a big box liquor store? Does the local sales rep make a difference? What about restaurant picks? Do you think distilleries are running out of barrels for their private barrel programs? Is the market flooded with private selections? What could distilleries do to give one store an advantage over another? Let's discuss stickers. Do they influence your purchase? Should stores slow down barrel picks? Why are some people spending so much for private picks on the secondary market? 0:00 Yeah, all I think all of our products are, which ones the few that we've gotten are like my daily drinkers. Yes, I'm with you. I don't ever drink the rare stuff by myself. And nobody ever comes over. So. 0:26 Hey, everybody, welcome back. This is Episode 210 of the bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And we don't really have a whole lot of bourbon news to talk about. In fact, we have none but we have some sort of fun little tidbits information plus some things that we've been working on and what we've been doing. So let me tell you about them. So I had some information sent to me a few weeks ago by Chris Middleton over at whiskey Academy. And he said this after he listened to Episode 207 with Jimmy Russell and I sat down with them. Now, you know, it's not often when you can stump Jimmy Russell and this was one thing 1:00 We had kind of talked about that's really kind of a whiskey mystery. So let's kind of dive into it. We talked about the name Ezra on the podcast, and we did that for a bit and somehow we stumbled on the topic of Ezra Brooks. Now, from my knowledge, I remember this being a fictitious name and brand but we got on the topic and it kind of just spiraled out from there. However, here's some factual information on Ezra Brooks that came from Chris Middleton. So Ezra Brooks it is a whiskey brand that is a copycat brand of jack daniels Black Label Tennessee whiskey. It was created by Frank Silverman of the Frank Silverman and company in Chicago in 1957, or he sourced Kentucky bourbon under the Ezra Brooks distilling company is an NDP filed on July 30 1958, with Herbert Silverman as the chairman. Now this was all also under the Hoffman distilling company in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky. There was no Ezra Brooks no distiller, owner investors, celebrity or a day 2:00 The thief from a whiskey cemetery. He's a trademark Phantom. SO Hockley built the Hoffman distillery on the Salt River in 1880 joined II Kaufman. After prohibition, it was rebuilt with the brothers Robert and Ezra, who were brought in to run it. And those were the sons of Thomas repeat, hence the connection to the wild turkey distillery. Jimmy Russell was probably referencing the name from here and all likelihood It was not where the hazard Brooks name came from. Frank Sillerman unashamedly copied everything from jack daniels, starting with the square bottle to a similar black and white label graphic, the filigree even an image of an old distillery illustration, which jack Dino's had on the back of the label, even the trademark name Ezra Brooks with similar syndication and personalization, so we're men also attempting to replicate jack daniels unique use of charcoal filtration. As an aside, Ezra Brooks was America's second charcoal rectified bourbon was 3:00 Since post prohibition, but the processes were very crude in simplistic it's more of a gesture circulating some charcoal and the whiskey barrel for 24 hours. George decal, the other charcoal was launched in 1964. Silverman also plagiarized jack daniels unlabeled claims and copied some of the Jackie Mills print advertising messages back then. JACK, Dino's went on allocation from 1956 to the early 1960s when the consumer demand exceeded the production under the maturation. So that's a good little whiskey tidbit for you. So make sure you try to write that one down. Now you know the kind of the real history behind Ezra Brooks. So I want to give a shout out to our friends over for castle festival for hosting us this past weekend. We had a great time hitting up the bourbon lodge that was sponsored by Justin's house at bourbon and the bird review to get some dusty pours as well as some air conditioning before heading back out into the crowd the jam with bands like Judah, the lion, the killers, and Nelly 4:00 Put on actually a real good show to bring back some those early 2000 memories for lots of us. You can catch our for castle updates on our Instagram and Facebook pages. Did you catch that thing we released on Tuesday this past week? Well, you can look forward to hearing those every week from now on. We're excited to be launching whiskey quickie to give you a fun update in the middle of the week. The normal podcasts will remain unchanged, and hope you look forward to hearing more of them. If you want to catch the video versions, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube page. And you can see that sweet intro that we've cooked up. We've got no shortage of whiskey to review and we can get through quite a bit with only 62nd reviews. But if there's something that you were dying to hear, send us an email team at bourbon pursuit calm. We talked about private barrel selections being the new unicorns on this show all the time. But that begs the question, are we seeing so many private pics that the market is just becoming over saturated? It seems like every week 5:00 There's a new barrel that's going up for sale in our city. There's fo mo about some sweet sticker attached to a bottle that we want to get our hands on, or the secondary market has some crazy valuation on just another regular single barrel selection. We examine all the components that go into getting single barrels, such as the amount of influence from distributor rep, the amount of available barrels that are even at these distilleries. And if you would even buy from a big chain versus a small independent store, will there be enough bourbon to go around and hopefully not overload the market? will find out. All right, well, let's get on with the show. Here's Joe from barrell bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 5:42 Hi, Joe from barrell bourbon here, every release is intentionally unique and can't be duplicated. Once it's gone. It's gone. Find out more at barrel bourbon com. 5:53 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char as I walk into this beautiful store, surrounded by 6:00 port and scotch bottles. I went up to the owner in Lisbon, Portugal. And I asked him a question, sir. Where's your bourbon? He said, Well, there's no demand for bourbon here. Nobody wants it. I love bourbon, he says, but nobody really wants to buy bourbon and Portugal. A few days later, I walked into a lovely bar. There are plenty of ports and scotches and cognacs and the bar owner boasted is like yeah, we have the largest bourbon selection in all of Porto. I'm like, Wow, fantastic. What do you got? We've got bullet bourbon. He said, I was That's fantastic. And then he had four roses and he had a couple of vintage Bourbons and he was very excited to even have jack daniels and Jim Beam. I think he had a redemption here and and an orphan barrel there in for sure. It was the largest selection of bourbon that I had seen in Portugal, and he made some nice cocktails. But at the end of the day, that was not 7:00 Nearly the amount of bourbon that I'm used to seeing, and even a random chilis in Boise, Idaho. Now I guess I shouldn't expect to go to Portugal and see bourbon littered on all the shelves. Not at all. I don't expect that one bit. But I was rather shocked to see that bourbon had not penetrated such a country field with culinary love and wine and port. So perhaps I'm naive to think that bourbon should be served throughout Portugal. But let me tell you why. When I walk into a foreign country, I look for bourbon. It's because I think of the distillers in the 1950s and 1960s, who are trying desperately to get these countries to pull down their tariffs except bourbon overseas. See, in that time frame, bourbon was not a unique product in the United States. And so places like United Kingdom, Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, they were all terrifying bourbon because there was nothing unique about it and the world. Also want 8:00 Give scotch and easy pass so it could help rebuild the United Kingdom. And so when I look at the shelves throughout the world, I think of the toil of the distillers in the 1950s and 1960s, and those in the 1980s, who were just kind of hanging on by a thread, just trying to bring bourbon back. And while I could easily say that, you know, bourbon and Portugal means less bourbon and Boise, Idaho, it's really not that simple. You see, the more bourbon grows, the more production we will have. And if we can get places like Portugal to carry, I don't know, three to five Bourbons, and every store or restaurant, that's a win for Kentucky. That's a win for bourbon. And at the end of the day, I think it's a win for you too, because that means they're going to work harder to make better bourbon. And that's this week's above the char Hey, 9:00 If you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram, that's at Fred Minnick again. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers 9:11 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit Kenny and Ryan here tonight talking about a particular subject that means a lot to all of the bourbon crazies, the bourbon nuts out there because this is one topic that Ryan and I I think, I mean Gosh, we're we're hundreds of episodes into this now and we start rolling back the the clock and the dials and we go back in time and I remember when Ryan was all like, Well, why would you chase unicorns when store pics are the are the real thing that you want? You know, this is this is a privately selected barrel. It only has a finite amount of bottles in it. And now it seems that the game is even getting ruined for store pics in that all right, Ryan. Yeah, now you got to start your own private label. Rare 9:58 because it's 10:00 I guess I was probably what two or three years ago I said that I was just burnt out by the whole camping and lotteries and all these, you know, limited releases and then the store pics was like my, you know, I was like man, those are the just like you said, but now it's gotten to the point where like you said every stores doing one every groups done one they got a sticker on they got this that that and then it's like, all right, what's you know what's rare about these anymore? But I mean, they are still rare because you are selecting your own barrel but uh, you know, same time I think they've kind of lost their luster a little bit, but I don't know, they're still unique. Yeah. And I think I think again, harder. Absolutely. And I think the good thing is at least with this certain topic, because there's there's a lot of ways that you can take this, you know, we've had, we've had you know, as I mentioned, Ryan talked about this a lot. We had Matt Ray, Walt Aiden, English the WWE wrestler talk about it. We had we had Brett from brick 11:00 banter on here we talked about sort of, you know, who can you trust when somebody's actually picking out a single barrel we've also had Jamie Ferris on the show before where he's had over 70 single barrels at one time in the store. So the single barrels they're not nothing new however, the craze is starting to really rise in popularity amongst you know, everywhere to the point where people are quickly selling out a single barrel pick that their total wine just got somewhere in Houston because somebody posted they're like, Oh, can I go get that let's go run and go get it real quick. So it craze the craze is starting to reach capacity. Yeah, and the crazy thing is not to keep going on a banter on our our banter. 11:46 The the the people that have been doing these are you know, for so long and that started doing these to bring interest in these single barrels are getting squeezed out. And that's kind of the the crazy thing about it. It's because there's such a demand. 12:00 The groups that you know, really bought into this and kind of made distilleries famous for it. 12:05 Because they're just a group, they're not really had the buying power of big liquor stores. So we can get into this a little more, but it's just, it's an interesting environment. It's still unique and very cool environment. But there's a lot more at play now. And so you kind of gotta weave in and out how you can end it. Alright, so we've talked enough. So let's introduce our guest, Michael. 12:27 So our guest is Michael Gallagher. Michael is a bourbon enthusiast and brought this topic to us as a way to kind of spark a conversation of what's the market going to be like now and what's it going to be like, even in the future? So Michael, welcome to the show. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. So before we start diving into the topic, you know, I we always have to get your bourbon story kind of where did you come from? How did you grow up in this? This this brown water wasteland or whatever it is nowadays? Well, when I was growing up by my parents and really drink it off, so I didn't really start getting 13:00 into it and probably until like, five years ago, and, and I didn't live it up here near DC for about eight years now. And being right across the line, the wild west of DC until I have a couple of liquor stores actually like the frequent because it's a lot easier to get stuff. And that actually helped me broaden my horizons as far as like the range of, you know, flavors and tastings that you can get from it. I mean, I'm not an expert in any means when it comes to figuring out like, whether these are way marzipan or what you know, we just play one on the podcast. 13:35 We ride on Fred's coattails on that 13:39 so yeah, I built a collection of myself it's just been a nice happy that I've enjoyed so what's your your collection up to this point? I probably got around 150 bottles which is probably like nothing compared to what you get but dang that's about there with me. The problem is I drink on like, like this slowly keep diminishing but Kenny Hello 14:00 He's a hoarder he's got that's not true because every time you come over I crack one open and then you just leave and so I'm I'm always stuck with all these bottles and only have like two pours poured out of them because you invite you don't invite me back. 14:14 There's a reason why that happens to for sure. I guess Michael kind of give us a little bit of an indication of like, What got you like looking into buying Perino private selected barrels that have been done either by stores or by groups or anything like that versus, you know, either regular offerings or trying to chase after unicorns. I think it was when I started collecting deeper it was more about availability I guess, because like you get to a certain point you can't, you're not going to find that many more new bottles. So it became more about the different flavors in like a four roses. You know, private select the different kinds of flavors you can get from you know, different recipes they have, which I usually found through the 15:00 Single barrel program that you know liquor stores and guys like you have done 15:07 and so what's what's sort of the landscape in DC as well because I know I know we've got friends that own stores around there and I know the way that as you'd mentioned the wild west of laws happened but what's the like the landscape of private pics because I'll tell you about the landscape of private pets here in Kentucky after you're done 15:29 as far it's just I think the the stores 15:33 if I'm understanding your question correctly did stores just happened to do as many pics as they can. I mean, I don't they don't usually get that many in they probably do like four or five years especially the my favorite store is that about which is good. Yeah, I mean, because the one thing that we you know, we kind of see around here is that there is 15:52 there's an abundance. Right? I mean, I think I think there is something to be said about having this. Everything in your backyard. A lot. 16:00 These stores have had these relationships with the distilleries for a very long time. So when they want to go and do a private pic, it's like yeah, sure. Come on in like we've been doing business forever. And then now it's starting to the point well, okay, well, bourbon, the craze is starting to go up. So now we've got stores in California and Oregon and Washington and Iowa, New York. And I everybody wants to do them now. And so there's, there's this. They're feeling this pressure. Yeah, there's tension and the pressure. And so and with that pressure, I mean, we're going to start seeing some people potentially get booted out and stuff like that. And I know Ryan, you've you've kind of seen it firsthand by you know, Guthrie, that's been on the show before. with Todd he's down in Bardstown. So, tell us a little bit about what that looks like. Yeah, so got there. A good friend of mine owns today's we talked about before, but he's been doing private pics for Gosh, I mean, it seems like it's 17:00 least seven to 10, maybe even 10 years, ever since they've been first having it. And so, yeah, he goes to plot for Russell's pics this year and four roses and they're like, Hey, 17:13 we don't have room for you this year. And, and it's based because he's a small store, you know, he doesn't do a ton of volume. And so they're basically catering to the bigger liquor stores that push the volume. And so it's kind of like squeezing the little guys out, they kind of, 17:31 you know, embrace them at first and so it's kind of like, all right, well, that doesn't seem 17:37 very fair. Very right. And we seen it with good friend of ours. Read with 17 out be I mean, they've been doing pics for ever and Campari just told them that they weren't gonna be able to do a Russell's pick. And they I mean, gosh, they've done. I mean, how many barrels that we picked that day with them six out of how many I mean, we probably 18 maybe you could just tell read and emulate it. 18:00 relationship with Jimmy and Eddie. And it was like, you're just going to shit on this relationship that's like been there forever just because they're a group and they're not a big liquor store. And so there's just been so many groups and so many liquor stores now interested in it that like, the way that these 18:19 bourbon companies are kind of determining who gets what is kind of alarming and shocking to me, and I'm not too happy about it, but I understand it is what it is. And it's like you said at pressure, squeeze markets, so they do what they gotta do, but I think I'll will All right. Well, remember that, you know, when about five, eight years, and all this stuff's out again and there, you know, calling us back up. Yeah, Michael, kinda want to get your take on that. Like, what do you kind of see is the, 18:51 the anti, I guess you could say happening, of being able to say, well, we're going to push out all these people that took it 19:00 The dance and we're going to take care of the Benny's and you know liquor barns in our backyard and going me wrong like they they get the cream of the crop for some reason I've seen liquor barn just regular like Buffalo Trace old Weller antique pictures that show up on Facebook. Holy God, I'm not I'm not kidding. They have you know, when we go we do our Buffalo Trace barrel pick they have four barrels when they do it. They have 12 1518 It's insane, right? So they treat customers a little bit differently to do you agree that these distilleries should be taking care of their bigger accounts rather than everybody that kind of has been keeping them in the dance for a while, but is as bad as it sounds. I mean, it's probably Money Talks, right? And it's almost like, to the point where to get certain bottles, like comfort like they've done in the past is these liquor stores have to push the cheaper stuff or the bottles they want to get off their hands in order to get the chance to get into the selections what it almost seems like in and so I guess another question that that we kind of 20:00 Bringing around that you know it does go by location to. I'm reading a few things that are coming here in the chat. Bill Nall says that location matters. He was in Detroit and there's a liquor store that had a barrel bourbon private pick. And it was, quote the only one in the state. However, here in Kentucky, you can go around to five or six stores and probably find one. Matt said the same exact thing he said in Iowa. There is only one for roses single barrel private selection pick for the entire state. He never saw it. He only saw there is only one Weller 107 barrel for the whole entire state of Wisconsin this year. So there is there is this sort of demographic, I guess, bias? I don't know. Maybe that's what it is like, what do you what do you all think? Do you think there is a demographic bias or is it because there's there's another underlying motive there? I guess it could be the idea of population density areas. I mean, I was not exactly a DC nuts. 21:00 DC is like this big city. But you know, DC, even DC like a liquor store that I usually go to only gets like four bottles, like a year, like four selections a year from different cup, and they're usually the big one like whistle pig for roses and stuff like that. But 21:14 I'm not around with. Yeah, I mean, I think where these distilleries are aiming, they're kind of probably starting to squeeze out the group's more so than stores. Because a group doesn't necessarily help them, 21:28 I guess, expand their brand or expand their reach. You know, we're us whiskey geeks were already in we're already buying their product. And so I think smaller stores and groups are going to get squeezed out first because like that, they just want to reach new customers and get into new markets and a group just not going to offer that especially one that's here in Kentucky. I mean, because we're going to, we're going to buy them if they're available and it's 21:57 kind of, you know, limits the reach if 22:00 just selling to so I can understand that. But at the same time we've are the ones that are, you know, like, I hate to hate hate to keep saying bring it to the dance, but we're the ones that brought you to the dance and so, so Hey, come on, give some love. No, Andy, just comment in the chat. He said, Well, groups don't sell cases of fireball. Exactly. 22:22 Exactly. And so 22:25 there's still a ton here in Kentucky. I mean, like you said, You got a liquor barn or total wine. I mean, they got the everyday Buffalo Trace and, like, even Barrow I mean, they're pleather but well when I said it, I mean they fly off the shelf like crazy. I mean, it's a it's just a different landscape than it was two three years ago. Do you think they have like deals with those like when I was in I was in Kentucky and I went to the old forester their new area where they have their you do I guess you do your single barrel select there and they had like the plaques on the wall for the people that have done pics, and like total wines has like 20 stars. 23:00 Any star was like 10 bottles I mean 10 barrels. So yeah, yeah I mean there's it's amazing right? I look at it from from a business perspective and yes it does make sense that you you help the people that sell cases upon cases upon cases of just old forester 86 or 100 or the new right or whatever it is right it's great to be able to take care of those people. 23:31 The flip side of it is is that when we start thinking about these big stores the the liquor Barnes the Benny's 23:40 you know, talk about some some massive change the total wines now when you go into one of these liquor stores, and you know, we have him around here, I'm sure that you've got a a Costco around you as well. Even though I don't know how big the Costco private barrel program is, even though they sell a shit ton of liquor but 24:00 What is what is your take? Like? would you would you feel comfortable buying a private barrel pic? Because it is that total line and you have no idea who did it? Or are you going to? Are you going to pass on it? Michael? What kind I want to get your ID on that. That Yeah, I've had that discussion in my own head a lot. As far as Do they really care about the taste? Or are they just doing the private select because it's a private select and I know it's going to sell more. I do like to tend to go to the to the groups but like you guys and that I trust like the you know, we kind of have the same flavor palette I guess you would say and I tend to stick to the smaller ones and stay away from the larger ones. Yeah, we do have costumes here in the DC whiskey read it is crazy about always posting like an update of what they have gotten each day. Yeah, I think the I guess the crazy thing about just Costco in general what's what's happened to the liquor sales because the words out that 25:00 It's, it's the cheapest, you're going to find any state that you're going to live that you're going to live and be they they get allocated items. So I'll never understand why they don't have a bunch of barrel selections or anything like that going on, because I know that they're running through a lot because that's the anomaly. That's the difference of a liquor barn and a total wine where they do have a lot of private selections, and they're trying to really put that as a differentiator. I was gonna say, I didn't even know Costco had or they don't have private selections, right? Is that what you're saying? You don't see I've never seen any or, I mean, so I will take that back. There was one that happened here, I think it was or maybe it was another location, but they just had like a knob Creek, you know, nothing, nothing crazy. But that's something that you typically don't see. And so I guess another way to kind of look at this, you know, Matt FE says in here it says, Why should you crap on the little stores, you know, you still get a single barrel into the store and it's still drives business. 26:00 But why why are you not going to help those smaller stores out? You all have a kind of take on that. 26:07 Well Could it be more about supply and demand kind of thing where they recognize that they got it they have to give these stores the largest stores their pics, but they're running out of not necessarily they're running out but they you know they probably allocate barrels of for their single barrel selection program and maybe they know that the big stores they have to take care of so that they the less store the smaller stores have less to go off of you know what I mean? Like you were saying earlier how you don't get that many barrels to choose from. Right What do you think that algorithm is? A figuring out what like, what do you have to sell to make sure that you get access to buy something that's way over my pay grade. 26:45 And my shareholder as bourbon pursuit. 26:49 podcast host but uh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, 26:54 it all makes sense when as a business fan, I mean, you 27:00 Do this too. I mean, you have those accounts that do everything for you. They're great customers, they pay on time. They, they, they're just easy to deal with. And I'm sure it's kind of like that with, you know, your bigger stores and with your district, you know, distributors and your bigger stores because it's, it's an easy relationship. It's an easy flow. And it's like, here's a reward for versus smaller store. Yeah, it might be, but they might pay slow, they might do that. I don't know. I'm just thinking outside the box here, but it you know, 27:30 it's like the 8020 rule. You know, 20% of your customers bring 80% of your revenue and so maybe they really focus on those 20% and kind of squeezing out that 80% that right now, just because they are in such a squeeze. Yeah, yeah, I definitely see that as being a motivation factor in you know, you owning your own business. You kind of have a different take on this then I think a lot of other people will to where were you do you follow the money trail? 28:00 Then you've probably have people like me who are like, well, I want to I want to have this personal connection with my, the small little local store. You know, I know them I know who's selecting the barrels, you know, when you go to a larger chain, you don't necessarily have that connection. Right? You're you're talking to hourly, hourly employees that are just sitting there stocking shelves, like, you know, it's very rare that you actually know who picked that barrel in the store behind it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just the business landscape or in in general, it seems like more and more small entities are either being gobbled up by the bigger ones, and it's just become more in this business in more than any other it's, as we've seen with pursuit series. It's an economies of scale like none other and so, 28:53 you know, the local store, they might be, 28:57 you know, grave in heaven, but they might be you know, there 29:00 You're going to be picky, they're going to be a pain in the ass. And like, you know what we don't like these four barrels are really words, total wine, they're like, I just gives whatever, you know, it's like an easy transaction for them, then they're like, you know, it's like, we like dealing with you all, because you're not paying the ass and you're not like, bitching about us on the forums, and you're not doing this. So it's like, you know, so I can totally see it from it's all coming back. Megan says to me, because, like, but how long, you know, how motors are great, and I love having the relationship with God, they're picky, and like, they will nitpick the shit out of you. Whereas our big commercial clients, you know, they're like, as long as it looks good for the road, you know, and here's your money. And here's everything, you know, easy peasy. So let's, I that's the only way I can kind of relate to it in and you know, there's there's other thing that Matt kind of put in the chat and he says, Does it have to do it the representative that's in those states too. And, and we've seen this firsthand, at least on the podcast side as we've been doing our own private barrel selections is that the rep actually plays a huge role in this like they Yeah, they are 30:00 They are got a bottle for you. Exactly. And that's exactly what happens. Typically how this this works is that 30:08 depending on what region state of the of the nature of the US that you own, your allocated X amount of barrels, and you get to choose where these go and so it's it's a i don't know i mean i guess if you've been a boss and then you've come into the into the year and you're like, Okay, you've got 28% of raises that you can go you can figure out who gets 2% who gets 6% who gets whatever and so that is that is one thing is that a lot of these stores they they continually have to be really good to their reps to make sure that they're always going to be on deck to be able to get one of these private barrel pics because that is a that is a real thing. That is it's it's all business and shaking hands at the end of the day to guess what else would tie into the with the reps is also the restaurants increasingly increasing number 31:00 restaurants around DC have done private slicks that I've seen, like even Blanton's and Buffalo Trace and just for their just for mixing drinks to? Well, I think like I said earlier with the restaurants and bars, you're, you're putting your brand out there and exposing it to the public. And so like a high end restaurant like that, you know, diners are going to go for a high end experience, and they're going to spend money on something like that. And it just helps expose the brand versus, you know, small store small groups doesn't really do that for you. It seems like the distributor 31:37 because that is their role, which we don't really truly understand what the role is, but 31:43 it's a new it's a continually moving target. Yeah, so like, but it would make sense that the distributor would, you know, the distillers like, all right, these distributors get so many barrels and then the distributor decides who they go to 32:00 Based on like you said relationships or sales or ease of business whatever and that's I think that's how it is but maybe not I don't know and the way it should be probably 32:12 no I'm totally with you another angle to look at this is just the the boom of the bourbon market and what it is and you know we've talked about people getting pushed out just having the big guys come in and kind of small and the sort of stuff up and we've kind of heard it before firsthand that like oh like the there's not enough barrels to go around. I kind of want to get you know Michael your take on this. Do you think that's a cop out? Do you really think that four roses the you know, the Russell's the everywhere, whatever the world's here are actually running out of barrels for this particular program. 32:52 Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? Of course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 20. 33:00 forth for bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors, all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show, and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait and get yours at bourbon on the banks.org. There are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever before. So how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? 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And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 34:31 You really think that four roses, the you know the Russell's the everywhere, whatever the world's here are actually running out of barrels for this particular program. I highly doubt that they're running out of barrels. Maybe for the program. Maybe that is what they already said. Like they at the beginning of the year. They were like we're not going to go beyond this. And they didn't expect the increasing number of groups and like getting with these retailers to buy more and more 35:00 And maybe it will adjust over time over the next couple years, maybe they'll realize that this is a big business opportunity for them. So they will increasingly I know that will it you know, pause a couple was it a couple years ago or their private selection? So as I pick that back up yet, but you know, yeah last year the first I guess re entry to the they're going along with the the their own distillate now, so yeah, yeah, for sure. I think they did, like 97 of them last year, which is still small compared to a lot of people that Yeah, I don't think there's I think that these brands are just so using all their resources to, 35:45 I guess, fund all their everyday brands that they're pumping out into the public is that and to be honest, single barrels are a huge pain for them. They take a lot of resources. They're getting people, you know, they have a have a coordinator. They got to take a 36:00 lunch, they got to spend four or five hours with you, then they gotta dump that one barrel and make sure all the stickers are on that bottle and make sure they got to keep track of that barrel. And it's like, like, probably just like the hell of this. I mean, this is 36:14 it's actually bad business. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it was probably something that got into like, because nobody wanted anything. They're like, Oh, this would be great. We have all these extra girls, you know, come pick your own, like, and but now they're probably like shit, why do we ever come up with that? You know, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. But uh, yeah, that's probably one way to look at it. It's probably a huge labor burden to them to make it happen. And that's why they're probably not growing the amount of barrels that are allocated to more or less Selenium then because they're growing their everyday brands and they just don't want to put the resources towards it. Yeah, there is there is a lot of resources. I do mention that that really go into it. I mean, it kind of just reminds me of, so there's a there's a farm around us. That's 37:00 button 3045 an hour away whatever it is called huber's and it seems like people always want to go there and pick their own apples. And I'm kind of like Why don't you want to go pick your own apples that's it's a weird thing for me to think of as like I just go to go to our grocery store and find a really good honey crisp apple. And I think that that's probably like the flip side of what the everyday consumer sees versus what what we see because there's probably some like person that's really an apples and they want to go and choose their own apples and they it has a unique taste profile. But however the the better side of the businesses and well let's just dump them on a truck and push them out and and get them out in the grocery stores because it's just a better way to look at it. Well they only if they only put trailers of apples like two miles before you get to, you know, huber's they have like two they have trailers of apples and pumpkins that you can buy before you can for like $1 to dollars less. If they only did that with barrels, you know, like for you get to the distillery. These are 38:00 thousand dollars cheaper discount girls right here? 38:06 Oh man, that's that's actually hilarious the way you look at it like that. So we kind of talked about the market of how big guys are kind of getting in squeezing the little people out of it. We're looking at the business opportunity from the distillery side and trying to figure out you know, what is the algorithm of who gets to to get what however, I kind of want to kind of switch the angles here a little bit because one of the things that we've seen is that a lot of this has become pretty prolific. There's everybody that's trying to get into single barrels, whether it's stores out of West Coast ne se wherever it is, everybody wants to come and do this because they they want some sort of differentiation or differentiation offering for their stores be able to sell to their customers. 38:55 And so Michael, I kind of want to take it to you is like do you see this as 39:01 Where it is becoming a flooded market of private selections that are out there? 39:09 Do I think there are too many I mean, 39:12 how how much how different Can I guess the question would be how different can like whistle pig pics be if I have five stores in DC area and I go to each one each one has a whistle pig pig because that is a bigger one than yeah it does it does get a little tiring. So that's why I like to look towards the I like I'd like them to look towards the smaller ones like I love to go into Joseph Magnus and doing that pic because I mean even though it is MTP, it is nice to have a little something different than the you know, the bigger companies. And so I'll will refute that a little bit because I did and I did a whistle pig barrel pick. I had I had five barrels. We chose two of them. We chose two of them that had two different taste profiles. And I think that's just I think that's the difference between 40:00 Maybe and 40:02 and maybe I guess I when I when I think about this maybe that's what most people also don't recognize is that yet they they're not going to send out probably a bunch of barrels that they all taste the same like everything is these unique differences these these minute profile differences or anything like that. 40:20 So I've had the chance to be able to do it and whistle pig and I think there is some some variation against looking at it towards more of the collection aspect. As far as you know, if you're collecting different models, I wouldn't want 20 whistle pigs. It's a so I guess that's where I was coming from. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Because Yeah, you don't want to I mean, it's it's hard to spend 80 to $100 on every single one of those bottles, like you've got to you've got to make sure it goes back to the fundamentals of Do you trust who's picking it? Do you know who's picking it? What's the story behind it? But you know, Michael, I kind of want to put it to you in a different way. 40:57 You know, you had mentioned that, you know, you have all these 41:00 That that could be the same and maybe, maybe because they come from the same distillery but what could a distillery be doing differently to be able to give the stores one advantage over the other? When you say, Well, I'm going to go to a different store and I choose different things do you think you think it's on the stores to not try to choose the another barrel from a, the same distillery and there should just be multiple variations or is it is it something beyond that? I guess it can be I love the way that four roses as their, I guess, their single barrel. I forgot which different program it is, but the fact that they have recipes, it's nice to see. I guess it's a telling thing for the consumer like this is going to be a different recipe. But otherwise, you don't really know until you buy it and taste it. Because I mean, it's not like you're going to go to liquor store and they have a tasting tray for you to try. There's compared to the store down the street. If you have like, you know, two different with whistle pigs. So you 42:00 You kind of like to just go forward, I guess if you were going to go do it that way, but 42:06 I mean, I kind of like the way the four roses has their recipe stuff on there. Yeah, yeah. And then you have someone like makers, you know, where they allow you to blend your own unique profile, which I think is very, very awesome. But you have to get 250 bottles out of it 42:25 in spend eight hours with them to get to that point, but uh, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's on this is still I think it's on the store to pick the you know that that's what it's all about, you know, they gotta 42:41 let me they're not going and picking unique barrel like they're not saying like, well, let's pick three different ones and send it they're like nope, here's the allocate ones. Here they go. Have at it. You know, they're going to try to make this as less complicated as possible. But, you know, 42:56 but I'm worthy. I mean, the four roses and makers are the most unique experiences. 43:00 You know, we go to the Buffalo Trace and the knob Creek and it's, they're awesome. But you know that there's very subtle differences in each barrel that you're tasting. And so it's it is hard to kind of distinguish that, except that me and Kenny have superior palates to anyone now I'm kidding. totally kidding. But uh Yeah, and it's Yeah, it's tough because they're there is a ton of them. And I guess the only way you know people are talking about stickers. That's one way to differentiate themselves. But then, like, I wonder if these distilleries in the sticker game it's like, all right, well, it's all about the stickers now. And it's become less about our brand. And it's more about the sticker game and it's kind of taken away from our brand. So like, 43:44 in the stickers are cool, but they're starting to get a little excessive as well. But uh, I don't know. I'm just rambling. Sorry. That's okay. Yeah, there is one thing I wanted to kind of mention that you would, Michael would say it like Well, let's let's go put 44:00 I'll go buy a bottle from the competitor down the street and I'll sample at my store man that's that's the craziest form of guerilla marketing there probably could be just like take a dump on your competition there. Yeah. But you know Ryan does bring up a good point I think we should we should talk about stickers because stickers or why would you even buy a barrel nowadays or buy a bottle if it doesn't have a sticker on it? That's that's the mean it's like fundamental at this point. So kind of you know, Michael kind of talk about you know, your experiences with the stickers and if it actually has any sort of influence on your purchasing habit. I mean, I won't lie I can't be a sucker for bottles especially I've the the old Fitzgerald decanter bottle back there for which is you know, it's an okay, it's, it's okay, but there was $300 sleep bottle. Yeah, it's asleep. 44:52 I mean, I enjoyed going I wouldn't did the magnetic for you guys and I enjoyed naming it and coming up with the name and whoever did this. 45:00 Design stick I didn't know who exactly what did that that was really cool as far as the Pentagon on it with the Department of bourbon but so it it's got a cool factor to it. 45:11 But I mean do you think it's you think it's starting in the point where it's jumping the shark or do you think we still got a week this is this is going to go strong still on to 2020 I think it's gonna probably keep going strong. I think people like to have their their little spin on it. 45:26 Yeah, go ahead, run well, and I was gonna say it is play out. But Michael made a good point. It is fun to come up with names because that's what I do. And 45:35 most of ours I tried to name that. Not all of them, but it is fun for the group to have their own unique name and, and because otherwise, it's just, you know, they used to be laying like you got a little tag on the Russell's bottle where you got like a little gold medallion. You're like, well, that's stupid. Like that doesn't differentiate us so it is kind of cool. And I guess that I just don't like when they take up the entire bottle. 46:00 Like, and they look all like goofy and like bright and I don't know, like kind of take away from the bottle. That's when I don't like more work on the distilleries and have them make a special bottle for every single barrel pick. Yes, exactly. Now you're talking my love language. Oh, yeah, just yeah, keep keep doing these little custom things every single time. Yeah, no, I mean, I'll kind of talk about the sticker thing a little bit because, you know, I kind of I kind of look at what you all said and I think it's, I think it is fun. I think it's, it's a unique way to be able to give something a name and and ultimately, when I look at it, I like to name stuff after that that kind of like put some sort of sentiment into it. I don't I don't name something because it just sounds cool. You know whether it has a Shawshank Redemption sticker whether it has all a Holcomb mania sticker on it or anything like that, because that that doesn't necessarily mean anything. 47:00 It just probably just sounds cool. Like it has to have some sort of story. And that's, that's really what I love. Because when you when you're able to talk about it when able to drink about and drink it again, you can look at that sticker and you can kind of reminisce on that day. And you can tell the story to people you share it with, you know, like, this is why we came up with that name. This is what happened, you know, like, case of the Mondays, it was a Monday. And like, I was super hung over from a member guest and I was like, I'm really I'm in a case of the Mondays. You know, that I can tell people that, you know, it's like, yeah, I guess the sentiment and Yeah, I agree. And what do you think it's giving more sentiment to us? Or for people that have actually where they are picking it than it does for the consumers that are getting it? 47:43 Yeah, I can see their point. Yeah, I could definitely say that. Don't you want to know why I was named that or maybe? 47:50 Well, I guess I want to know like, if I'm buying something like I was unable to make the tasting room confessions, pick from New Roof, but 48:01 They came with a name and I was like, Well what Tell me about the name? Why did y'all come up with that? And you know, and I wanted to know because I wasn't there and so it was like I got to experience it through them because of the name. I don't know. Sounds kind of dorky. You like the lore of it. Yeah, school. Yeah. No, I mean, there definitely is two angles to it. I think there are you know, there's some that that definitely just speak to people because it's a cool sticker. Like it just to take another new riff for example, like people are putting all the plays on the riff name like you've got, like, I've got a bottle called Ken Griffey Jr. It's not like like Ken Griffey had anything to do with it. It's not like the group were sitting there talking about baseball stats, when it happened. They just thought of a funny name and, and put it on a sticker, like that's all it is like it doesn't actually have any sort of connotation to the day or memory or anything like that. 48:53 However, there's another slide of this when it comes to the marketing aspect when it goes on to the Facebook forum. 49:00 When people started learning about it i mean this is a real differentiator like do you all see that like if it wasn't for going smash on a four roses bottle? Like what would that even be a thing that people elevate it to be in this 300 $350 private pick and it's just another bottle for rose or the tipsy buffalo rather exactly 49:24 if somebody comes over and is trying like a Buffalo Trace especially like the one like your pic and they point out the fact that that stickers on there it's different than the other and then I go into telling them out oh as group I'm part of that actually went and picked it so I mean non bourbon you know enthusiasts actually 49:44 get a kick out of it kind of story so yeah, not an hour like sharing all the barrel pics sweet like when people come over that's the first thing I do is like our guys what barrel pics Do you want to drive because that's like, I don't know. I think that's cooler to share those then 50:00 Just like I'll try my Pappy 20 or whatever 50:04 I'll take the Pappy 20 50:07 that's what most people want they're like I don't give a shit about you 50:14 know as a you know, as an enthusiast it's fun for me to share with people nothing they like like it to that I could be wrong 50:23 absolutely and so I kind of want to close this out on a on a another note when we're talking about just you know private barrel pics and you know whether the markets saturated or not. 50:36 Is there a reason that anybody should slow down with with these when you're when you're thinking about a company's or anything like that because it seems like there is demand it's going to be happening. And I guess maybe not. I'll rephrase that maybe not slow down from a manufacturing perspective 50:56 should should store slow down in regards of what they should be. 51:00 What a offer because maybe they're trying to push other products just to sell just so they have these opportunities. And, and just to be able to sell a bottle. I don't know like 51:11 I think bourbon enthusiasts are just increasing the numbers daily, so I don't think we're at the peak right now. So I think there's still plenty of people to come into your liquor store and buy, you know, four bottles of fireball to go get drunk, and there's a guy that wants to come in and get as many privates like the guys he can that you earn. 51:33 Yeah, no, I'm with you. I mean, 51:37 I think they should keep doing because I mean, they are fun and they, they're, it's the only way to get a unique kind of experience and bottle then, you know, the limited release game has just gotten so out of control. Like where it's just, it's always camping, it's emails. It's this it's that and it's even the store pics are kind of going that way. And so that's what's nice about 52:00 What we're offering, you know, to our people, it's fun for us to do that and offer to our Patreon people, but being in a bourbon group to like having access to this, so I mean, I don't think they should slow down. I mean, the people are talking about new riff and you know, compared to like, bigger distilleries, and what I think this sounds boring, but that they should do a cost benefit analysis and maybe, you know, Russell's and all the big boys, it's really not beneficial to them to keep doing these. And whereas someone like new riff or a newer guy, they're gaining a lot of exposure around it. And it's really helped catapulting their brand and they should really embrace this. And it kind of reminds me of like, when I went to Napa, and like you go to like cake bread or Opus one, and it's like, oh, these are these great, distinguished brands and you go and it's like the lamest experience ever. But then you go to this like mom and pop winery, where you meet the proprietor and you like, and they're like, it's real intimate and, and I think that's just how it's going to be with 53:00 bourbon kinda as it keeps evolving is that you're gonna have these big boys then you're have all these little small guys and they're going to have to offer unique experiences through private pics or coming to the distillery hanging out with you know the the distiller and creating that connection 53:17 yeah i think that this should keep on rolling with them as much as possible because I love them all right. 53:24 I lied I have I have one more question because because I keep thinking about this and I It reminds me of like a post I saw earlier. And I see I see things in the secondary market that are then just single barrel pics that are being sold for the extraordinary amounts. I kind of want to get your all state Michael first like are people dumb? Like do they need like a reality? Do they need to reality check to say like, this is just another barrel pick like That's all it is. It's not going to change your life. yet. People are spending exhausted amounts, maybe because of the sticker or maybe 54:00 Because it came from a particular group, like I want to kind of get your take on one of the same people that are paying $900 for CYPV was that it's it is ridiculous. 54:11 Yeah, I don't I can't imagine ever buying products like going to a secondary market myself. I mean, I have a hard time buying other models in the secondary market. I just kind of take my chances in DC. Yeah, yeah. 54:24 Yeah, I'm with So Bill Nall says private pics play to the fo mo and fo mo is like, bourbon is fo mo it's like the perfect product for fo mo it's 54:35 you know, there's in single barrels or even more of that because it's like we only have this one barrel. There's never going to be another one like it and this whoever picked it and it's like it's the perfect product for that and people. They like Rarity and scarcity and like if it's the more rare and scarce it is, the more irrational they're going to be about it. You know, it's we are all done in this game. 55:00 We all got our like our bad habits This is like I shit for mine. Like there's no rational reasoning behind this hobby or it does that 55:11 mean we go Kenny you go on these pics you go at even like we do pursuit series I mean there's barrels of whiskey like, like, just like you don't believe I mean there's so much whiskey out there and you're like and it is just another barrel whiskey but there is that connection to is there's that Rarity about there's that specialness about it that people just go ape shit over and it's it's just like anything you know, it's like getting you like Porsches and you know you really want a Porsche or Mercedes and it's like, well why the Volkswagens made by the same people and it says same shit you know that it's a Porsche you know, it's got the branding and everything behind it. It's just, it's marketing at its finest. You know, it's, that's that's what we deal with. So that is the fun part about this because 56:00 It makes it unique, right? It makes it a it makes it a an experience that you're able to buy a bottle and have a connection to it have a story behind it, you know the person or you know the group that that, that purchase that or that anything like that. And so you do have this connection behind that particular bottle and I think that is fun. I just think that we need to kind of like dial the height meter back, maybe maybe 20 decibels in regards to this because people just need to understand and Ryan, you said it best. You know, we have the opportunity. Anybody that goes and visits, any distillery anyone and you look around you look at all the warehouses. Just understand, it's just another barrel of whiskey. It's another one. Yeah, there's there's always going to be another one down the road. So don't you worry about that, but not that one. But not that let's see, that's what you get. That's that's what that's the hook. That's what keeps you not your suit series. 56:59 You need all the 57:00 Rose yes absolutely but that's that's kind of what keeps you hooked in is like you like what if I miss out it is and the thing is Kenny we know that and I know that but it's still I still can't get past it and I don't care because it's the Chase is the fun that's you know it's just part of the fun hobby we were enthralled with no no, I'm totally with you. So let's go ahead we'll end it on that note because I think we we did enough insulting of pretty much the whole industry at this point. So this was this was a really good conversation So Michael, please 57:34 make fun of everybody including myself. Mike want to say thank you for coming on and giving you this. This this topic to talk about it was it was really good and I want you to kind of give a plug if people want to get in contact with your or anything like that. If they can find you any kind of social. How they can follow you there. I'm on Twitter. I don't you know, not that funny but MIKG 316 1989 58:00 There we go. It's all good. Yeah, follow him there. Follow us on all the social media channels, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, at bourbon pursuit. And always make sure that you leave iTunes reviews too, because we love iTunes reviews and only share with a friend because that's what helps grow this show more. And All right, I'll kind of hand it off over to you, buddy. Yeah, reviews are great. But telling your friends even better, because you can share this wonderful experience and call them down to you know, 58:29 after they get involved with it. So now Michael, appreciate the time appreciate the show suggestion. That's what we'd love about the show is hearing from our fans and interacting with them. So if you have any things you want to talk about or hear about, let us know. And just we love hearing from you guys and we'll see you next time. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Luke 2 & Kentucky Spirit Single Barrel signed by THE JIMMY RUSSELL! Luke 2 finds Jesus staying behind in Jerusalem and Mary and Joseph didn’t know He was missing for an entire DAY!! They had to go alllll the way back to Jerusalem and it took them another 3 DAYS! They’re literally raising the Messiah! Don’t you think you’d keep a better eye on him? They’re pretty much the opposite of helicopter parents. Speaking of parents, I was honored to meet Jimmy Russell, Wild Turkey’s Master Distiller, the Grandfather of Bourbon, and he signed the bottle of Kentucky Spirit Single Barrel! This is an amazingly smooth bourbon with a rich caramel color and mouth feel that finishes with sweet vanilla and caramel flavors. Thank you @wildturkey For the incredible Kentucky Spirit Single Barrel! Cheers to another great week everyone!

Today’s guest needs no introduction. He is one the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He’s been on episodes 77, 105, and 175. He’s even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that is Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how he was selected to become the next master distiller. He talks about the changes he saw at the distillery as it exchanged hands throughout the years. Also, we get to hear the story on the birth of Rare Breed and his opinion on chill filtering vs non-chill filtering debate. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits blends cask strength, high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels, and aging environments. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Use code "BOB2019" for discounted tickets to Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. (Offer good through 6/30.) Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: The history of JW Dant and Log Still Distillery - https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/j-w-dant-investing-12-million-to-restart-historic-distillery-in-the-bourbon-capital-of-the-world/ Heaven Hill 7 Year Bottled in Bond Launch - https://www.facebook.com/bourbonpursuit/posts/2640636035998401?__tn__=K-R Leave us a review! https://link.chtbl.com/LeaveAReview This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about speaking at a Total Wine event in Atlanta. Does limestone water make a difference in bourbon? How long does it take to cook bourbon? Can you burn the mash? When did you start at the distillery? What roles have you had at the distillery? What Master Distiller trained you? How did he decide he wanted to train you? What were the early years like? Was there anything from prohibition that affected the distillery operations when you started? Will you all need to increase capacity soon? What was it like when you first started traveling to talk about Wild Turkey? What were your biggest challenges on the road? Were you nervous when you first went out on the road? Were you happy traveling and talking to the consumers? What was the name of the distillery before Wild Turkey? What was it like to distill then ship the bourbon away? Tell us about the other former Lawrenceburg distilleries. What was it like when you were out on the road? Do you think it helped grow the brand? Do you prefer to travel or be at the distillery? Tell us about Kentucky Spirit and Rare Breed. How often are you going through and sampling barrels? Do you have a favorite warehouse? Do you have a favorite floor? Why do you only have 7 floors? What innovations have you seen throughout your time in the bourbon industry? Talk about your rye mashbill. What do you think of non-distilling producers? Tell us about the inception of Rare Breed. Do you like the barrel char flavor? What do you think of chill vs. non-chill filtered? What kind of steak do you like? How much time do you spend at the visitor's center? What do you drive most of the time? Are you excited to have Bruce at the distillery? Did you ever want to own the distillery? Why do whiskey consumers get enthralled with age statements? Any life advice for younger generations? 0:00 I've had one bad job since I've been here. My dad worked for Old Joe Distilling company. The last 10 years of his life he worked here. 0:09 You know what the problem was? You were working here too? Yeah, I was his boss. 0:13 Oh really? (laugh) 0:28 Hey, it's Kenny here and this is episode 207 of bourbon pursuit. It's been a pretty busy week and a half of bourbon news. So let's get to it. Another warehouse comes crashing down. However, this time it's not because of unknown reasons, but it was because of disastrous weather in wind. O.Z. Tyler located in Jonesboro, Kentucky, had a corner of warehouse age get ripped off and barrel started coming to the ground back on Monday, June 17. About 4500 barrels and bourbon more in that quadrant that have now been rescued. The warehouse has been successfully deconstructed, and the cleanup process is underway. That particular warehouse holds around 19,400 barrels. O.Z. Tyler has been in daily meetings with the Environmental Protection Agency to make sure that everything stays contained. On the right side there has been minimal damage in very little leakage because bourbon barrels are constructed to withstand plenty of movement. JW Dant, you've heard the name before because it's one of the many brands owned by Heaven Hill and is also one of the prominent bottled in bond Bourbons that you see on the shelf. And it's been talked about previously with Bernie lovers back on episodes 3637 and 89. Well, heaven Hill may own the name JW Dant as the brand but they don't own the person. j w. Wally dance surprised the crowd during the national bourbon Day celebration in Bardstown, Kentucky, announcing a $12 million investment to build logs still distillery on 2200 acres of land that he purchased that was once guessed them and he decelerate until that was actually shut down back in 1961. In 1883, that distillery at this site was called head and beam distillery but was closed during Prohibition. The distillery reopened the repeal of prohibition, eventually selling to United distillers and later Shanley production at the old distillery was relocated to Louisville in the early 1960s. And production at this location had ceased. The JW dant brand name was sold to heaven Hill in the early 1990s. Heaven Hill still produces JW Dant bourbon today, so don't expect this name on a future bottle from logs still distillery. You can read more about the history of JW Dant and logs still distillery at distillery trail.com with the link in our show notes. while speaking of heaven Hill, everyone is up in arms either celebrating or chastising them over the new announcement of the relaunch of their heaven Hill bottom and bond. You may remember this last year when this product was only available Kentucky and it disappeared from shelves when it had announced its retirement. However, it's back. But there are some catches. The age statement has been increased one year from six to seven years old. It's still bottle and bond at 100 proof the packaging is a bit more flashy than its white label screw top predecessor. Now the big news might be that it's not launching in Kentucky, and it's not going to be available in Kentucky on the first release. Instead, it will be immediately available in California, Texas, New York, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, South Carolina and Colorado. And the prices jumped from the once low budget daily bourbon of $12 and 99 cents to nearly three times that with a suggested retail price of 3999. We're gonna be discussing this one in a lot more detail on the next round table. So we can see where this new price point positions them in the market. So stay tuned for that one. Today's guests, he needs no introduction. He's easily one of probably the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He's been on episode 77 105 and hundred and 75. He's even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that's Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how will you selected to become the next master distiller and how he saw the changes of his own distillery changed hands plenty of times throughout the years. It was certainly an honor for myself to sit there and chat with this man one more time to really just hear more about his story. You're listening to this podcast so we know you enjoy it a little bit. So if you can please be our boots on the ground. leave us a review because that helps the show grow and find new people. Now let's hear what Joe Beatrice over a barrel bourbon has to say. We've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 5:03 Hi Joe from Barrell Bourbon. Here we blend cask strength 5:06 high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels, and aging environments. 5:08 You can find it on the shelves at your nearest retail store. I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. I was changing my nine month old baby's diaper. When suddenly an enormous back pain struck my lower back a spasm seized my spine. It says if 1000 vodka troops grabbed their pitchforks and started stabbing me. Thank goodness I was able to place Julian gently down and the changing station as I toppled over and intense pain. I simply couldn't move. And all I could think about was the total wine event I had in Atlanta later that day. I considered canceling it decided to push on. I drove to Atlanta from Louisville stopping every hour to stretch my back. At one point I thought I was going to pass out in the middle of $1 general and chat and knew them as I was shop for back support things. If I did pass out there, I don't think I would have woken up with much. It was a very interesting crowd shopping that day. I pressed on, I get to the total wine two hours late, and there was a decent crowd waiting for me. I tried standing and talking but could barely stand. So I sat and talked about taxation and bourbon. I never really know what I'm going to talk about with these things. I like to feel the crowd out. And this was one I felt was really hungry for geeky knowledge and somehow bourbon taxes just kind of rose to the forefront of what to talk about. I went through my spiel sign some books and magazines, but couldn't have a tasting. For some reason. Georgia doesn't allow people to have tastings and liquor stores. When will our country figure out that responsible alcohol actions are the answer, not pesky bands on things like tastings. I feel really bad for those total wine workers because they can't really share the goodness of bourbon. Anyway, the next day I went to Atlanta's other times wine. When I ran into the show's good friend Kerry, aka suburbia who taunted me with a vodka bottle and took a picture of the pleasure he had. You should check it out on his Twitter handle look for suburbia, it really captured my disdain for the bourbon job stealing parasite known as vodka. Seriously, vodka sucks. Okay, I told my therapist I would cut back on my vodka rant. So let me get back to the total wine stuff. I did a similar talk about taxes at Kennesaw store and later hung out with the club Atlanta bourbon barons, where the founder Giuliano opened up his house and insane collection to me, at this point, after hitting up the urgent care center the day before, I was on some medication for the back and couldn't really partake in much of this great whiskey tasting. But I slipped a little, just a little. One of the members is Atlanta's leading personal trainer and geologists who sees Atlanta Braves players and people who have a bunch more muscle than me. He offered to look at my best And that, to me is the epitome of the bourbon community. We like to help one another. Atlanta was gracious with the bourbon hospitality and concerns from a health and it just made my trip all the worthwhile. So thank you so much to the Atlanta bourbon community for opening up your arms and accepting me and my bad back because I hobbled to and from all the total wine stores and to your homes. I shared this with you because I feel like the bourbon community is at a breaking point on the internet. I'm seeing constant trolling and bickering and online forums. And maybe it's time we go back to the old ways of the bourbon social life. You know, when you invited total strangers into your home and poured over your conversations with your very best Bourbons. Those were the good old days, and I'd like to see us get back to them. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, have you subscribed to my new magazine bourbon Plus, you should. Latest cover features the actor Jeffrey Wright, who's starring in James Bond and john wick. He's on the cover. Check it out. Until next week. Cheers 9:08 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon back in Lawrenceburg filming recording on site at wild turkey distillery wild turkey Hill I believe one time is what you call it right Jimmy 9:21 is known as wild turkey he'll it's been named Ed bar county is known as wild turkey. He'll 9:26 There you go. So we have master distiller Of course, bourbon legend, Jimmy Russell on the podcast today. And before I kind of dig into it, just want to say thanks to everybody from the empire that helped set this up everybody that also kind of figured out the logistics for it as well. We are recording outside today. So if you hear some trucks going by, it's something that Jimmy had already mentioned earlier to us that there is a rock quarry probably about a mile and a half down the road. And apparently they make some pretty damn good limestone and that's where you hear these trucks that are just going back and forth all day. Right You know, this is where all the lamps only had to have good limestone water to make good bourbon and the Kentucky River is all spring fed limestone water. So I guess we'll go ahead and we'll kick it off with that. So anybody everybody knows Jimmy so we'll get we'll get past that but you know, we'll we'll talk about water in general right because I think it's one of those things that gets a lot of talk about when it comes to Kentucky bourbon you know, you talk about limestone and about limestone filtration but does it really matter at the end of the day because a lot of stuff goes to like reverse osmosis and it's really filtered heavily through there so what's 10:32 kind of your thought process well done in the cooking process we use just limestone water is no go so old time we use house Moser is I use when we're cutting a bourbon after it's been aged for years, but it's just regular Kentucky River water when when you're actually cooking it 10:47 coconut. Okay, so I guess let's let's give some people a little bit of a schooling. So when you're cooking bourbon, what's what's the usual time process when it goes into the masher and everything like Well, 10:59 it depends on time a year we're cooking 400 bushels to a mash corn rye and barley malt. Now the cooking times are the same we cook corn up to 212 degrees and then we cook it for a period of time. Then we start cooling down we had a rather certain temperature has a little more starts a little more flavors, and then we cooling down to certain temperatures. It had we had to barley malt barley malt converts all starches into fermented will sugars. Then we pump at our firm better at our east and East a non ferment will sugars produces a bourbon in 72 hours. And this depend on temperature cook, the cooking temperature is always the same. But cooling down from 200 and 20th. We're cooling water outlet Kentucky River used to cause and all in the wintertime, we can cook and pump a fermented mash mash out in a firmer and three and a half, four hours. And when we just shut down and last part of June the water was hot. It was taking four and a half five hours. So what you're doing, you're setting there and beating that grain to death cooking in the I use simple terms. Just like cooking at home, we leave something on the stove too long. It gets mushy and not as good. So 12:11 yeah, but do you get any like, like say you're putting in like a baking pan? Does ever actually get like black underneath of it? Like if you actually cooked it too long? No, no, no. So you're not gonna actually get can actually burn it. 12:23 No, you're not going to burn it. 12:25 So is there? Is there a point when you know that the mash is done? 12:28 In your opinion? Oh, yes, you can tell by looking at the firm better. First day is pretty smooth and even on top. And they used to own sugars and the apartment or is rolling and moving and it's the natural movement was the East really known the sugars scene. And as it starts finishing Oh, we call it down down they'll start dying down and it'll be come out clear on top. 12:52 Oh yes. The father the firm enters right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12:55 We call it beer at that stage. 12:57 So distillers beer. Absolutely. I so what's let's let's give everybody a little bit of a history lesson too because you started here at wild turkey back in September 10 1954 Okay, so you know the exact date remember the time 13:12 6am seven o'clock in the morning 13:16 maybe I'm not the first person to ask that one. I don't know. Yeah, so you you've pretty much taken you've done a pretty much every single role with inside as 13:25 well yes. 13:27 Most of times you started in the bourbon business you started one place you stayed there all master still it took me under his wing. And that started out in the lab and salary time I learned that you know we learned a job well you can sit back and take it easy, then a boom into something else moves. So that experience in running the ball and operation running the whole client and exercise client management for several years. So what what made it into balls By the way, who was your master distiller that Mr. Bill Hughes he was young distiller for probation and Helio God appeared top heel. And he's took me under his wing started training and were born raised here in Lawrenceburg, Anderson County, and he'd known me you know, all my life and he more or less took me under his wing started training me. 14:14 What What was it about you that? Did he see something? Was there a glimmer in your I did you? Did you ask like, what was it? 14:21 No, I didn't really know. He just they just started trading me doing everything here. 14:25 He's like, here's the here's the biggest sucker in the room. And probably 14:29 nobody else would ever 14:31 know how to use it. 14:33 So what were those were those beginning years, like when you're when you're trying to have this apprenticeship. 14:40 While he's learning everything in the story. I worked in quality control and the story that day and time we didn't have all is saying they will quit what you have now. we'd run analysis on the corn, check it make sure it meets our standards, everything we done by hand. Now you have good equipment to check off, they're going to say you check all the grain and maybe four days are with you my brother scoop shovel shovel, and done a little bit everything. 15:09 So So you started 1954. Right. Yes. So at what point was that during pre post, sorry, post prohibition and and was there anything that really that was, I guess, prohibition ask that that affected your your job at the time? Or is everything just running full cylinders? We started of prohibition in 1933. And this story, some of the buildings and our storage bill some our storage building here 15:39 was built for and 1890s. And most of the steel was, was dismantled cause it was 1919 1933. A lot of them didn't think they'd be back in operation. But the family that owned this at that time is a big rock where why the amount of limestone out here blows. And they own that rock quarry too. So they work here in wintertime. Work in Iraq, we're in the summertime. 16:04 So yeah, you weren't running full cylinders, like you are today. 16:09 Still the same way as to the hot mush July which medicine we don't make any bourbon you just too hot. Doing it now bottling in Hawaii, how's everything Danish goes on all the time? Before it's a cooking mash? It just takes too long to cook them and cooling down. 16:26 Now, do you think that has any effect on the supply of what you all can try to produce? Or? I mean, do you look at it as maybe we should throw in some air conditioning units or open some windows? And 16:36 well, that's not the problem is the water? Oh, is it we say we start having chill water to cooling down. And it just takes along with our we've doubled the capacity owners are to steer in the last few years. So we're running about 346 faster right now. So when we build servers angry, the refurbished everything, we doubled our more than doubled our capacity. And the way we got it now we can put in extra parameters, we can still put in more firm owners and increase more and more. 17:08 I mean, do you do you see the day coming? Where you're going to where you're going to need to do that? Or is right now everything pretty good. And status? Well, 17:14 you know, I hope we have to go save when I started 50 or 60 barrels a day. Now, of course we're restricting our own product, everything to wild turkey products here we make our own product, a drone product and bottle our own product. 17:30 Well, almost right you've got a few other things out there old recipe bond and 17:35 that was too old to steal was that was a one time deal. They went back and done some compile on that. But that's some older stories was here. And they've been looking at some of the older stories for for probation. Maybe doing a special every once while now. 17:49 Yes. What to say I was like there's another one that could be coming out. I think it was the wash. Was it the barons? The barons releases or something like that. They look like it was kind of another another camp party thing. But we figured you probably didn't have a whole lot of your hands involved in that one. No, I didn't. So another thing I guess let's give an idea of, of what so at some point, you are also Do you remember when you had to start going on the road to start talking about the bourbon? Yes, 18:20 it was probably at least 30 years ago or more. And production to master distillers working in production. They just do is to play. That's all you done. And our company started me out going on the road and made a trip all across the United States. And it is completely different is now everybody is all whiskey don't make it. What it is nowadays, everybody. With all internets and everything. Everybody knows everything is going just like this broadcast broadcast. You all covered everything people know what's going on all the time now. 18:54 Well, there's a hungry consumer out there, right? They, they, they want to know more 18:58 they want. That's what I say when I say started. There's always good in my country with what it was. But now they're very well educated. They know what's going on all the time. 19:06 So what was what were some of the biggest challenges when you were doing that in regards of trying to get people to either listen to you or try the product? 19:14 Well, they listened. When you started talking to them, they really listened and this one he's a bourbon Sally's come along whiskies of the world and it's all over the world anywhere you go in the world, you know, for many years, and bourbon was strictly a Southern Gentleman strength. They got their cards or cigars and bourbon went to back room playing cards. That's where it comes in. How will you read old story you never drank bourbon till after five o'clock? Or somewhere? It's always five o'clock. Yeah. But that was always storing in his coming worldwide right now. The export market is huge. everywhere in the world. Now bourbon is really doing well. Were you because you were 19:56 I guess you consider yourself a pioneer when it comes to going out traveling and and talking about the whiskey. Were you nervous? 20:03 No, not really. No, I'm just playing. Oh, Jimmy. I'm saying Well, I mean, 20:08 at this point, yeah, you've stood up and you've talked in front of a bunch of people for quite a long time. And I know one of the things that was always relatively funny was Eddie would always say you know you didn't really do a whole lot of talking at home but you should see it the distiller you're doing you're doing your thing then you're always talking 20:25 well that's what he said the first trip he made with me. Then he come back home said Mama, you don't know that he said he's out here so you can keep him quiet. What 20:36 do you think you think you found like 20:40 like a new new happiness when you were when you were traveling of trying to find a way to connect with consumers I 20:45 had but I've always been people enjoy people. I'm a call myself a people's person. I like to be just like here. I tried to get down to Visitor Center at least once today. Talk to the venture see what they have to say about it. And my wife likes to come here to and on Saturdays. My family has breakfast to get we're family everything's open Joel except our home. That's all but we have breakfast together every Saturday morning. And we she'll come out with me actually she worked here for ideas even she worked here for eight years or children come along and she stayed home took care of the children and and we have Bing she likes come out here and see the vicious dog and they like see are so weak and then after church on Sunday we normally come out a little while on Sunday afternoons I get to spend more time in a visitor center that away for through the week. I got a job to do up there and I don't get down here as much. 21:41 So you know I think I remember this correctly. When you said your your wife Georgia, by the way it is now was this place called was it old tub or Old Joe? Is that what all 21:51 know it was Anderson County just still in 21:53 Anniston County. Okay. 21:54 And then one time was really brothers. And it was JT s brown at one time. And then been since 1971. has been Austin Nichols. 22:04 Gotcha. All right. We'll see. Mr. Sir. I'm learning something today as well. 22:08 They also Nichols company. They had their bourbon made here. It was shipped to New York and bottled in New York at that time. And they bought everything out here. Both the whiskey the day old already here. Um, it was already there. So they both and they didn't buy any other products at JDs brown at them. They didn't buy any of that. 22:30 Alright, so at what point so you were here during the entire Austin Nichols? 22:34 Since they've actually owned everything here in Kentucky. 22:38 Absolutely. So what was it like during that time to sit there and distill and then just ship everything away? Like what was what was the Lucille Ball and everything here? Okay, you're still doing that too? 22:48 Yeah, we're doing everything here. So talk about a little bit because that was in the 70s. Right. So it wasn't it wasn't the heyday for bourbon. No bourbon was true. Say back in that day and time bourbon restrictive Southern Gentleman. Right. So what was what was the, I guess you could say the are or the feeling that, you know, kind of went through a lot of the veins of people around here of what's going to happen with bourbon during that time. I mean, well, you know, before prohibition, it was 12 distilleries here in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, Canada was known as one of the biggest selling cup places it was at that time. Most when I started with steel for here for roses known at nationals are still here in town. Old Joe distilling company was here, and Hoffman distillery was here, then we were here. So when I started the steel forward, now we're down to two four roses and us, 23:41 right. And so what what was what was the Old Joe and Hoffman? What? What kind of fate were they delivered? 23:47 Well, Joe was one of the oldest brands just our 1918 is one of the oldest, oldest brands, and they had several different brands. And in Auckland, they had half and broke. Then they started days were broke. Hmm, there was worried started, 24:04 which, from what I understand is Ezra Brooks was even a real person, right? 24:08 I thought he was I'm not sure. 24:11 Fancy. I don't know. I think that's been one of those biggest lords of bourbon. Nobody actually knows who Brooks actually is. I think it's just a fictional character. Good to be. 24:21 Jimmy Russell doesn't know I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and put my stake in the ground. It might be fictional. I might be right on that one you might be right. 24:29 So I kind of want to go back a little bit about, you know, your time on the road and what it was to to start doing that because you said you weren't nervous. But what was what was the reception of a lot of those people? You know, you'd said that they were they were listening. But do you think that that sort of help kick mark or sorry? kickstart the the market at the time for what we're seeing today? 24:53 Oh, yeah. say they've started wanting to learn about his dad and no, back to Ezra Brooks. Love the fellowship, Assyria his his first name was Ezra now well, that had anything to do with it. I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know either. But the fellow that owned all hapa distillery, while the owners first name was Israel, 25:11 we'll have to look into that. And put that on the research papers for later. But again, I cannot go back to your traveling, you know, the reception of those individuals and how that kind of kick started. So how long? And how many years? Were you traveling? And you're still doing a little bit not near 25:27 as much? Well, I'm still doing it in the States. I'm not going overseas at doing most of traveling overseas now. But, but I've been in just about every country in the world, who was talking about bourbon and say it's become a worldwide drink people's really educated and where you go in the world now. And so you have the bourbon side is in Japan, Australia, Europe, everywhere. Women in the bourbon women, the whiskey of the world and everything nowadays. 25:53 Absolutely. So do you. I guess I'm trying to find a good word to kind of summarize this with but when you're Did you did you look at that time traveling as as a good time to be able to do that? Or would you rather been back here at the distillery kind of overseeing a lot Oh, I enjoy 26:11 doing that. I would want to be a distillery. I wouldn't want to do it all the time. Like la the ambassador's is now they're on the road all the time. But every so often be out on the road and see what two people has to say, you know, you make it, agent, bottle it and ship it out. Unless you had complaints. And we've had very few of them over the years. You never heard any more about it. This way. When you're out in the field, you get to meet people. It's enjoying it and drink it and hear what they have to say about it. 26:40 So when we talk about just the whiskey in general, what do you what do you look at as some of the more brands that that you fall in love with? You know, we've talked to Eddie and and you know, he talked about everybody's got their baby, right? Everybody's got their baby. And so he looks as Kentucky spirit and rare breed. We're really your babies. Yes, 26:59 Kentucky's spirit and Blanton's was the first two single barrels on the market. Way back in early 90s. The first two barrel proofs on the market was Booker's and rare breed and that was late 80s, early 90s. Now everybody that has them but they were the first to own the market. 27:16 So kind of talk about what the Kentucky spirit line really is and what it kind of means to you as well 27:21 the Kentucky spirits of single barrel your hand selected and selected one when you say single barrel has come one barrel and one barrel only. So you're selected. Now here way we do it. Every barrel has a little different taste, even though it's the same going in his way of white oak tree grows in the woods has effect on a tree. I use simple terms. You plant flowers around your home all the way around someone who better on one side or another cause you get more sun more rain or same with white oak trees. So we were selected, were selected consistent taste Now we have this barrel program or bars restaurants, distributors can come in and select their own barrel. We'll have some more spicy pans on the wood some lyst because they know their customer we're trying to please everybody who are they know their customers and they were picking one one of my wanting more spicy one might not want is spicy. So when we're selecting the single barrels 28:19 so the I mean how often were you actually going through and testing some of these Kentucky spirit barrels to see if they matched up profile that people would want to come in and actually purchase them 28:30 we we've always done that we check everything we're Hey, we don't control our grains check before it's ever unloaded, we check it actually grounded. We check it when it's been cooked. We check the firm owners we taste a new product before it ever goes into barrel and then we check new barrels make sure they meet our standard we use a number for heavy char we make sure everything meets our standards before 28:54 so it's like it's like you almost have like a battle of wills here right because you've got this you got this heavy lean on consistency where you're saying like yes, we've got one mash bill we go in one entry proof we do this we do this that have this level of consistency and it's like but we're going to come up with a product where every single thing is different 29:13 you know me I like to be consistent even though I've come up with American honey I've come up with several different experiments over the years but you know I use simple terms Yeah, I certain foods and if I don't like taste them but I'm not gonna eat them again. 29:31 Like what like what foods you're not gonna try again? 29:36 Yeah, cuz simple. It feels like people say like, I'm too old to eat this anymore. I'm gonna enjoy the rest of what I'm going to eat. 29:41 Well my wife sure she says I too much steak and beef. 29:46 You can't have enough steak. That's BBQ Yeah, there you go. What about stuff that you you're not going to touch? Anything that you're not going to touch anymore? No Really? 29:55 Mo is not very few thanks to that. Oh like 30:00 Alright, so let's talk a little bit about the warehouse is here. So it seems like you probably know every every nook and cranny of a lot of these things right? So do you have Do you have a favorite warehouse 30:10 you know to me, most of them. If you sit near you see they all said about the same level. Get same airflow, get same air flow and everything it or some places are you know they're down in valleys different places. But here we're good now at likes a and b warehouse he says it is but you know he gets something in your mind you believe it but I may. I don't see a lot of division er houses. 30:38 What about the floors Do you have a particular floor that you're akin to? 30:41 Well the third fourth fifth floors ideal aging. The first and second floors at same story warehouses. It can be 30 degrees difference between the top floors and the bottom floors. It ages two faced on the top floors and don't age fast enough on the bottom floors. So at times you have to rotate bottom the middle forces idea who managed in temperature and all that there's not that big change in it so but the bottom folders and top floors it is if you use over an hour going to the warehouse you start up steps every floor use field difference in the heat on up. 31:16 So why do you think they stopped? What do you stop at seven place? Why would you go like a 50 story warehouse? 31:25 Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 24 for bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait get yours at bourbon on the banks.org and through June 30 you can get your discounted ticket offer two tickets for the low price of $110 when using the code be EOB 2019 during checkout at bourbon on the banks.org 32:18 Hey everyone, 32:19 Ryan here and I know when I celebrate a weekend with friends I want to bring some of my best bourbon. However, if I'm on the car, a plane is not convenient. Plus my bottles are clanging around they're not really secure. So I have the perfect solution. The Asian or travel to canter allows me to put two thirds of my prize bottle and it's unique tumbler it's great for camping or really any outdoor activity with the built into outdoor lines. I know I'm getting my friends just the right amount of special bourbon. Go Learn more at pursuit travel to canter calm to get yours today. 32:51 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels but Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits Klay used to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling at beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled a dragon's milk beer twice the mature bourbon is finished in those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursue for $25 off your first box 34:00 so why do you think they stop what do you stop at seven place? Why would you go like a 50 story warehouse like what would be the will be the the ideal way of not doing something like that? Well 34:10 I don't know how that would look but it'd be monstrous it'd be monsters but to back in that day in time they didn't have all this quit but you have now they they had police horses pulling the barrels up to the top floors. Oh really? Yes. 34:25 Yeah cuz i guess i mean i've seen you've seen you can go in some of these these warehouses and you do see the you can see like the pulleys and you do see like essentially like almost like an elevator shaft you put it on pull it up 34:37 cool isn't it? That's what they don't leave these two for prohibition here. 34:41 They didn't like put a put a backpack on you with a rope and make you go 34:46 away man does I now you have Rick and machines and all the put them up into three tour. So used to tear Rick's back Ned day we call the dropper she had a cable with hooks on the end. And you looped it up over the for Buffy and one fellow would hope to borrow was a hoax and I'll be back pulling them up earlier than Rick now you have all kinds of equipment to handle it now. Yeah, same way taking them out. You had to take them out the same way. 35:12 So what other I mean let's let's go ahead and rewind the clocks of time here right so during your time what other type of innovations have you seen when it comes to just yeah, either that's rolling barrels or wrecking barrels or dumping or anything like that that sort of either made it easier or just 35:28 it's made it easier you got better equipment now everything's better equipment, you know in the dump room used to knock the bone out of every barrel still. Now we got you got a bone puller pulls the barrels out soaks $1 now same way and fill in barrels you field every barrel, you had to drive the bone and it rolled it out. And it's a lot of those things is better equipment. Now that's why I say our forum and everything, we haven't changed anything. We just have so much better equipment now than you did and everybody to steal you run it by hand you had one hand on the steam veil, want to head on flow veil and you actually you got to be consistent improves on your steel if you prove runs up and down on the steel the flavors are going to be up and down. So you have to be consistent get good if you want consistent taste and flavor you gotta run the same prove all day long. 36:21 So I guess now it's a lot easier because it's all probably computer controlled 36:26 with how we have computers but we still at hand operators are still doing it by hand I can sit there and 36:32 click on click a mouse and I can make it like that and 36:35 then they had when we're grind and grind that has to be their meals we're cooking a cooker fella has been around the cooker we're filling the first matter yes be there so we're still got a computer city have sitting around doing some buy in and that's still in the middle of steel is about 240 degrees and it was hot back in that day and time setting imagine you got air conditioning control room for no sudden oh 37:04 yeah now they're just they're living life of kings or is so he you got to see the hard days hard days everything done by hand 37:12 Yes. 37:13 So let's let's talk a little bit more about the the distillation pieces of it so you've got one match but let you do for all the Bourbons but you also have a ride 37:21 around Nashville right? So talk a little about the rye when was that introduced? Like because I know for a while you know you used to have wild turkey from Maryland source oh not a store it is like bourbon even to this day you have allowed people to bourbon can be made distinctive product United States of America. And a lot of people thanks has been made in Tokyo it's not bourbon. When I started in Radwan made in Maryland, Pennsylvania. It wasn't rat whiskey rye was dominant grain on the East Coast when they come here and that's what they first started us probably George Washington was one of the first distillers I'll get this question all time who's the first distiller someone says a words I you know what I say? The first old farmer got over the mountains got a steel set up claims at the first and Is that another so I don't know whether anybody really knows who really registered still rewards. 38:17 Now that's going to be a mystery that will never going to solve. So back to the rye You know? So when was that when was that introduced here? Because I'd we had mentioned that it was it was sourced at one point for wild turkey 38:31 well it made in Pennsylvania were made for us in Pennsylvania. Okay, but we've ever since I've been here we bottle right? Then we started Mike or own 38:41 probably 38:43 late 60s early 70s. Most rise says 95% 100% rise. Ours is old fashioned formula. It's got raw corn, corn and barley. And that's way that if you look back to original recipes for and Pennsylvania, Maryland as well, they were 39:00 right. So I mean that's so you're keeping the same Nashville that you you sort of were even right. You can consider that contract was stealing if you were taking it out of out of Maryland and bring it back here. Is that 39:12 technically what it was? No, they was making it for us. 39:15 Yeah. Wasn't that considered contract distilling 39:17 or they was gone? Yeah. Same way bother stores in Kentucky right now. does a lot of social media does still brands, it does not have the story as Nautica, and that's what's made the bourbon market short right now, a lot of Bourbons made such a huge jump in the last seven or eight years. Same way as a lot of them were selling bourbon, other people live in a barn and lived under other brands. And now they're shorter bourbon. 39:43 So what's your what's your what's your take on that? Do you think? Are you a fan of indie peas or non distilling producers? Do you 39:51 think? Well, you know, they're making it for people how they want by either I guess or how they want it done. But no, monastery is Bowser says bourbon or rye all have come out of hit on it right. 40:06 Rising Tide raises all ships and right that's that's the way to look at it. So So yeah, so you've been doing that for a while. Rare Breed is the the barrel proof baby of yours. So kind of talk about the inception of that. 40:21 Well, actually, we were tasted we sample say we sample everything we're saying was Asian each year sitting here in LA the visitors come in, we'd be safe and we would sample right in the warehouse at that time. Dr. Bone had a thief pulled our Berlin sampler dr. Terry lovers come in KFC. Why can we get some of this? Why can't we get some of that? That's what brought to me. That's what brought the idea for us here that if they've wanted, that we could probably make it happen. Right? Right. It's easy enough to just not just basically just dump it right away. Don't need to prove it down too much. Right? You can't prove it that Yeah, not can prove it down. Actually, the only thing you can do is put a little water behind it to clean out your filters. Because you got a filter to get this so much at char HR and dump trolls. You'll see big flakes a char and Eric comes loose in that barrel. Then you have a lot of little fan jar that you had to filter to get f5 Charla, 41:21 a lot of people like that fine char at least some of the whiskey geeks What about you, do you when you when you have the opportunity to just go and sample something or go ahead and just fill up your own bottle? Whatever it is, do you get a little bit of that just barrel char sitting around in there? Do you 41:34 like that? Really, you don't get with a thief pull it out. You don't get that in there when he jumped the barrel and get everything out of it. 41:41 Right. But are you a fan of it? Because Because he don't be people like people? I mean, I I don't know. I look at it and you're like, Oh, it's kind of like an extra little little thing about having the bottles you can can you swirl it around you can see that 41:52 a lot of people's like so something wrong with it when they see that is what it is. 41:57 Yeah, I could see a probably a general consumer market would probably look at it like that. The same reason why everybody went to chill filtration at one point because you put ice in it and all of a sudden looks cloudy, but now we're starting to see this shift or this turn where people are, they're asking for, you know, non shelf. They're asking for throw a little piece of char in there for good measure. So I know 42:20 I know, I know it's authentic or something, you know, actually we never use chill for it depends on the proof. It depends on how much water you're adding when you cut it down whether the show failed or not. So at one on one prove up in just a few years ago we never geophones this tall it that what will happen to it. If you say you're shipping it from here and maybe 40 degrees goes to Canada 20 below, they get cloudy and hazy. And that's what you're doing. You're checking out some of those sayings. They won't get that away when you chill. 43:00 Now there's there's always the the never ending debate or story. If you do chill filter it are you removing any flavor. 43:10 Well, unless you see by federal law, if you move so much flavor, you can't call the bourbon anymore. So now you are doing very little flavors. 43:22 So you don't think it's really affecting anything you think it's more of a aesthetic. 43:26 Yeah, it's a now in the lower proves if you're adding a lot of water. See we're not a rule of thumb. It takes about a gallon of water Drew's 100 gallons of bourbon one proof point. So our barrel proof right now is 116.8. And we bonded one on one. You had very little water to it. That is coming on that barrel. 140 something you couldn't have 80 proof you had a lot of water to it. Absolutely. Because we just seal distill it low proof and put it in a barrel at low Bruce to say Hi, are you still were allowed to steal up? 160 proof? Hmm. And I use simple terms. You like to eat steak? 44:05 Do you want it well done or you want to medium rare? Yeah, 44:08 you like it? Well done. 44:10 I'm not a well done fan. I'm a medium medium rare. Just you don't get a lot of the those flavors you 44:15 answer my question. 44:18 You're taking the flavor. Hello. 44:20 Yeah, I mean, so it sounds like your state guy we were talking about already. So 44:27 are you uh, yeah, ribeye fillet. What's your what's your 44:30 what's your Academy? Like on the primary of verse your prime rib guy? I didn't even think about that row horse race choices. 44:37 Oh, yeah. That's so Joe Redis she had she had prime rib cooker for you go out around. Yeah. 44:45 You know, when the children are growing up, she cooked all the time. And now just the two of us and she never knows what time I'm getting home at nights. So weed out just if I'm in town, we added lunch. And you know, it's bad when you go restaurants now and they bring the teeth to you. Like what we said, 45:05 Jane? Yeah, well, I mean, you're here in Lawrenceburg. So I'm sure everybody probably knows you by name, that's for sure. Right. 45:10 Lehman likes to their place to we go to Lex and a lot of course I got a lot more restaurants and we have here in Lawrenceburg. 45:18 Absolutely. And so let's let's kind of talk about you know your time here at the distillery now you spend a lot of time down at the gift shop, chicken, some hand sign and bottles. 45:27 Try to get down at least once today, but I'm in distillery. Most all the time. I try to get to this person or at least once to today, usually about this time they afternoon. course they get off. Regular workers gets off at 330. So I'll usually go down our late night afternoons and sit around. I like 45:48 is it about you think it's the best part of your day? Or do you just like to have a healthy balance of getting in front of people? 45:52 I want to hear what people have to say. You know, I'm on the list and see what they have to say. Uh huh. 46:01 And plus you've got your your scooter, your own personalized scooter down there. 46:05 They had two bunnies. I can't get around and he feels he goes in these fields and I write it down here. 46:12 Right. Really? Okay, so it's an off road kind of guy. 46:16 Yes. Run 40 miles an hour on the road. Well, you 46:19 could just take it to the McDonald's parking lot if you're getting hungry today. Right. 46:23 It's not lost in Mattoon last night for the road he's got turns angles narrow lane. They bought that special for me I didn't even know that he's getting it till one day they said we need you down to Visitor Center will what it was I thought somebody that are wanting bottles I walked in and hey, come pushing that out. Sit here. This is what you go around around. 46:45 But you actually came up here we're recording outside on this hill. You actually came up here in your car you're looking actually drove up here on that? Yes. And now if had been the first for the week? Well, they tease me about this. You know what I draw most of the time 46:59 when you got most of the time 47:00 1998 Ford pickup truck. four wheel drive. Yeah, now I feel as well. And my wife forgot to her for Christmas. She's never drove it much so it's been sitting in the garage for three weeks so I told her to get out and drive Yeah, well battery dies, right? Well, it's it's only got 4000 miles on it. Yeah, and I'm driving a whole lot then well $2,000 we go to Destin Florida we're vacation Fourth of July we we drove down back so to 47:31 see now everybody that lives out in the the Destin region they know where to catch you when it when it comes time to for family vacations and stuff like that is so the other thing that you know I kind of want to talk about just kind of kind of wrap it up with some more bourbon talk is over the years you know you've had your hands in a lot of the releases that have come out and stuff like that you've handed a lot over to Eddie as well and then you've everybody's what he's really banging on Bruce to really move here now. We've I've been I've been sensing that a lot recently. You know where do you kind of see the the lineage going? I mean you excited to have to have Bruce come into here and do you think he's gonna do a good job like what do you think that's gonna be like? 48:11 Well like he said if he if he says I don't do something the heavens me. 48:17 Me and Bruce holdovers from there 48:22 but this is saying I enjoy so much about to bourbon business. All of us are close friends here in Kentucky if one of them gets in trouble others doing is anything they can to help them out. And we talked about Booker know Elmer Lee and part rain we all grew up together. Fred Nolan he grew up together at Parker son Craig been they they're about the same age they grew up together. But Craig had to give it up you know Parker old friend of mine he had Ellis disease engages in his 70s he got the point tour he still could talk all right he couldn't do anything they have big trucking company isn't cattle farms. So Craig had to give it up and stay in taking care of the farms and all now you got Bruce and free its own free little free together now so steal that vision is going on in 49:16 yeah i mean you do see this this family lineage is happening across pretty much pretty much all of them right i mean there's there's something that that there is to be said about that 49:27 little bit different on the heaven Hill side right let disappears disappears and more more business focused rather than distilling focused but the only thing known is to relive 49:37 all of this is Sharon before and countries are stock 49:41 so at one point would you would you rather had the opportunity to like buy back wild turkey and put it under the Russell name? No, we never did own it. Yeah. Well not buy it back. I'm just saying like if the opportunity presented itself or was just something that probably would never would have happened and it wouldn't happen yeah. 49:58 Yeah, it's the know it's very costly. Yes, yes, very costly. And see, most sayings if you don't turn your inventory winter for months, you're not going to be in business very long. See here we're not thinking about even turned inventory with the same date 10 to 12 years from now. So we got a lot of money tied up space in the state of Kentucky we pay a tax on each barrels and since you're in ages, yes the state of Kentucky 50:26 now you'd also mentioned 12 years but from what I understand and what I remember is that you're you're more of a like a seven to eight year old bourbon guys the 50:34 same to toys with seven to 12 Yeah, now we do an older limitation ever was while we put out 14 year old 15 the same thing the decades if we just finished the ad put out it's got 10 to 20 year old version, but it's just a few barrels and we we keep our record bottling one a lot 1400 Barroso badge bother in a small but there's no such term as small badge 50:59 now you can doesn't 51:00 really matter you can call whatever you want ours is about 100 250 barrels who were tasted all the time we found somebody thanks agent a little extra special will set them aside and keep taste them and if he starts getting that woody okie taste like a lot of would know he tastes you like an older bourbon but I don't like it and he starts getting that we can move them down at the bottom of our house and slow at age and down. We can't move same hundred thousand barrels as well on the inventory right now. 51:26 So I guess let's let's talk about that with Woody and okie bourbon because there is kind of a shift in the way that consumers are looking at buying bourbon when it comes to like a whiskey geek market right when people are coming out with crazy age data 2327 year old Bourbons and they do they've got this like heavy okie painting panicky kind of taste and flavor to it. However people like you are saying that's that's probably not the way you should be drinking personal taste Yeah, 51:57 how much it's your taste you drink whatever you live with this not my taste so 52:02 why is it that you think that 52:05 I would say a new whiskey geek or new whiskey consumer gets totally enthralled with this large number on the package rather than the taste and 52:15 it's a lot of people thanks older it is a better it is now go back to scotch which I know a lot about that to see they're using barrels has been used to us as I get as we 1516 years old to really get some good taste in it because they're using barrels and we've already used and the one thing about it when they start using your barrels they want to keep using them goes and eight years we lose about a third of a barrel is soaks into the wood and they're getting some flavor allied barrel so if they used our barrels one year beams or makers or Buffalo Trace and then it's going to change the taste of their product and that's one thing it's like food and all I want to taste the same everytime i don't i don't want some food taste this way tonight. Next week it tastes different way I don't 53:08 there's a lot of variations you can do to mac and cheese 53:12 anymore right and then you know that's funny saying mac and cheese now is all over the world he used to be he didn't see much but they were you going to world as mac and cheese they got it all now so many different ways they fix it now and cookies 53:29 Do you have a favorite mac and cheese rest we could just turn this into mac and cheese pursuit because I think there's there's not a lot of people that don't like mac and cheese 53:35 right. 53:37 Joe rata make a good mac and cheese. We don't eat much. No no mac and cheese for 53:41 all much anymore. My parents put two majors in it. 53:45 Really? 53:46 That's a new one. Here they their mac and cheese when I was growing up had two majors in it that see I don't think I've ever had that. 53:55 I can always try it though. I can always try. So we're gonna wrap it up with with one one last question here. And this actually came from a listener. His name is Jeremy. And he said me myself of several people that I know love visiting the distillery we love to visit with Jimmy for an hour. So he's a good rich source of information and bourbon lore. Now, he kind of wants to ask, what's a couple things to like an advice that you would give of things or codes to live by for younger generations? 54:24 me do it. Like I said a while ago, do it right or don't do it at all. Don't try to change keep consistent taste and flavor and all the time. Don't keep changing different times as you say to him says I'm hard headed in ways but I've done a lot of experiment in over the years with American honey with the barrels has been a scotch different barrels and everything. I've done a lot of experiment over the years but I stay strictly to old tradition doing it the right way. 54:57 Well, that's that's the bourbon side. But just in life in general. And life in general. What what what do you have some good, some good little tidbits that you can hand down to young generations of whether it's Don't work too hard? Maybe it's just enjoy what you love, whatever it is, enjoy 55:14 what you love. Don't try to be somebody who are not. That's what, you know, I don't I hope you see I'm not put on the plane Zambia, just, that's something I'm a piece of trash put on a big spiel. And I'm not if I really had 55:31 deep thoughts with with plain old Jimmy right. Alright. So let's go ahead, we'll wrap it up right there. So make sure that if you get the opportunity to come to Lawrenceburg and visit Wild Turkey, try to figure out was we're recording around three o'clock right now four o'clock, he said he's usually down at the visitor center then. So that's when you know is probably a good time to go catch him. Or you can ask the visitor center and I'll be glad to come down there and salty. There you go. You can do that as well. Right. So he'll do that for our panel cast. Listen, I will. Jimmy thank you so much for hopping on the show today. It was a pleasure to talk to you and you know, capture a lot of that good information. I'm sure we all learned something new every single time and I think we're gonna have to go back and figure out who this Ezra Brooks character was. 56:14 Yeah. Well, thank you for coming and being with us. We enjoy it anytime. You're always welcome here anytime you want to come 56:19 back, except your house right. Now that 56:22 that's all. We're family. 56:24 It's okay. I'll accept that. I'll accept that. Would you be surprised? 56:29 I'm not good on these computers. Other people tell me I saw we were home on 56:36 the internet. No. 56:39 Well, you know where you live? 56:40 Yeah, that's that's the that's the scary thing about it. gotta hide your address. 56:46 No, I'm in the phone. My name is in the phone book here and everything. 56:49 Oh, well. There you go. You can you can you can find them in the local Lawrence County phone book. Right. So with that, I want to say Jimmy, thank you again for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure to have you. That's how you can find Jimmy and I can meet him I'm sure we already talked about it will be back down in Destin, Florida at some point soon. And who knows you might see him at your favorite liquor store across the country signing bottles. 57:10 Thank you, sir. Appreciate you come. Say you're always welcome. Anytime you want to go. 57:15 I appreciate it. And make sure you follow bourbon pursuit on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And if you do like what you hear you want to see more interviews with legends like Jimmy, make sure you support us patreon.com pa te r eo in comm slash bourbon pursuit. That's how we're able to keep buying new equipment, putting miles on the car and making these good interviews happen. So with that, I want to say thank you again and we'll see everybody next week. 57:40 Cheers.

Peggy Noe Stevens is an encyclopedia of great information about many bourbon brands. You may not know it, but she's one of the biggest influencers behind many of the great distillery experiences while on the bourbon trail and outside of the state too. Peggy is a pioneer in driving diversity with her leadership behind the Bourbon Women organization and involvement with women-led panels. Peggy is an incredibly talented person that has shaped the industry from being in front of people leading them at bourbon tastings and crafting one of kind experiences behind the scenes. Show Partners: At Barrell Craft Spirits, every release is intentionally unique, and can’t be duplicated. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Use code "BOB2019" for discounted tickets to Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. (Offer good through 6/30.) Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Wikipedia. What is an experiential expert? Who have you consulted for these experiences? What value do you bring to these experiences? What was it like working at Woodford Reserve? How do you elevate the experience? How do balance the history with modern day innovation? Explain the difference between someone coming up the ranks in the bourbon industry vs. someone just taking it. What was it like when you were named the first female master taster? Do you feel like the media is better today that back then? What about diversity in the whiskey industry? Was Lincoln Henderson your Mr. Miyagi? What are you doing today with this master taster role? Let's discuss Bourbon Women. What was your inspiration for Bourbon Women? Tell us about the growth of Bourbon Women. How do you market the organization? What type of members do you have? What are visitors looking for in a distillery experience? How do you deal with a difficult person in the hospitality industry? How did you help pioneer the Bourbon Trail? 0:00 Did you actually consult him and say you should wear an ascot? 0:03 No, no, he he came. I want to make clear to all the audience that the Ascot was his idea. Are you suggesting I shouldn't 0:15 move forward with it? 0:27 This is Episode 204. of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kenny Coleman and per usual we have to go through a little bit of news on June 22. peerless distilling is releasing their four year bourbon. If you caught the Live podcast with Corky Taylor then you may have heard about it, if not no worries as it will be released at a later date. We are very excited for Corky Caleb and the entire peerless team for having the will to hold back sales until this product reached four years old. When we get a chance to try it. We're going to let you know what we think to Buffalo Trace to Hillary is now releasing their next installment in the old charter oak series called French oak. The old charter oak collection is designed to explore honor and celebrate the role of oak in making great whiskey. The oak tree is used in this brand vary from country of origin species, US date and even age there's century barrels that are being used from Oak trees that are 100 203 hundred years old. For this newest release Buffalo Trace contained a small number of barrels from France in 2007 and filled them with Nashville number one. This is the same Nashville used for standard Buffalo Trace Eagle were amongst a few others. The old charter oak is now been bottled and will be available for retail in late June. Last week, we ventured out to Barton for another 1792 foolproof selection, that they started out a little bit different than most because it was raining and there were storms in the area. That meant we had to do our barrel selection inside at the tasting bar at the gift shop instead of the red house because they don't allow people there during the chances of lightning. We made the best of it. And we had six barrels to choose from we narrowed it down to three. And that's I guess fortunate that we ran out of samples there with inside the gift shop. But wouldn't you know the skies parted and we got the sample our barrels inside the house to come away with a winner. After selecting it, we found out that it was barreled on to 29 which of course was a leap year. We were also joined by Father Matt, a fellow Patreon supporter and Catholic priests from northern Ohio, who blessed our bourbon for us to mean how often Can you say something like that happens, it was truly a memorable experience. If you want to join us on barrel pics, go ahead and sign up and be a part of our Patreon community@patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. If you follow us on social media, you would have seen Ryan and I at will at this past Saturday. We've got big news to share. So you're gonna have to wait to hear more about that one. Let's just say we through 11 barrels and came away with two. That's enough for the teasers for now. For today's show, we have to just talk about Peggy because we love Peggy Noe Stevens, she's an encyclopedia of great information about mini bourbon brands. She was featured back on episode 198 talking about would influence along with bourbon and food pairings with the state as the rave. But this time we get to hear her complete story. You may not know it, but she's one of the biggest influencers behind many of the great distillery experiences that you get to see on the bourbon trail as well as outside of the state to Peggy is a major player when it comes to diversity in the bourbon world. She's a pioneer because she played a big role behind the bourbon women organization that we've also featured on the show previously. Peggy is an incredibly talented person that has shaped the industry from being in front of people leading them bourbon tastings to crafting those one of a kind experiences behind the scenes. Now with that, let's hear from our good friend Joe over a barrel burger. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 4:04 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from Bell craft spirits. Every release is intentionally unique and can't be duplicated. Once it's gone. It's gone. Find out more at barrel bourbon calm. 4:16 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char. When I was a little boy. One day, a man came to our house. He wore a suit, nice leather shoes, had a suitcase. He took my father to the table and pulled out a suitcase and dropped five nice leather bound books. He flipped him open. The pages were silky smooth to the touch. And he pointed at me. And he said, Sir, your son can learn the world through Britannica encyclopedia is my father very interested in my education. But the encyclopedias I just sat there for pretty much my entire life. I don't think I ever really looked Adam. Well, I might have pulled him out for a report here and there. But the encyclopedia man always struck me as like one of the greatest salesman in the world. And today, the encyclopedia is gone. So where do we go for information these days? Well, obviously, it's the internet. But there's one source in particular that seems to drive the conversation with most people. And that's Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a site that I'm actually particularly fond of, because it crowd sources information. And a lot of the information is wrong to include people winning awards, you see a lot of political efforts there to kind of try to change people's Wikipedia pages. I have a Wikipedia page and you know, people go in there and tinker with that all the time. That's great. That is what it is. So side note, I was the most important Ascot where once upon a time someone else took that spot. But the fact is, is Wikipedia is where we go for information today as a society. Now go on there and look for Jimmy Russell, Jim Rutledge, Elmer T. Lee, Jeff Barnett, you name them any kind of prominent person and the American whiskey scene, and you won't find him. I don't know if it's the brand's fault for not trying to make sure that their iconic people are on Wikipedia pages. Or if it's simply that American whiskey hasn't really crossed over into the pop culture of the internet yet. But I think we really should change that. So if you have the abilities, get on Wikipedia today and add a master distiller go add somebody who's important to American whiskey. Because for a lot of people, if you're not on Wikipedia, you don't exist. And that's this week's above the char, hey, this idea came to me from a follower on Twitter, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram. That's at Fred Minnick again. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week, cheers. 7:05 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Fred recording on site at one of our guests place. So we're actually honored to be on site again together doing this. But today that I had the opportunity of meeting Peggy few times, probably probably probably a few years ago was the first time and then the last time which I don't know if that's going to go out and recording depending on how this release counter is going to go but had the opportunity to record her at the higher proof Expo doing some stuff with bourbon and food and chocolate pairings and tasting and stuff like that. And so that was kind of like my really first time really meeting her and kind of knowing some of the the depth of knowledge that that she really had to offer. But, Fred, you've got even a more personal connection to our guest today. 7:54 Yeah. So Peggy, and I go way back and if it wasn't for her, hi would never have written the book whiskey women. And we've become friends. I would say, you know, I don't have a sister. She's the closest thing to a sister I have. And she's the godmother to my son Julian. So, so we are very close. And you know, when we talk about when we talk about bourbon coming back, you know, this woman has done as much for bourbon as anybody. She basically was a founder of the Kentucky bourbon trail. I mean, it was essentially her idea. She It was her idea to create the launch pad of the Kentucky bourbon trail at the Frazier museum. And she founded a little organization called bourbon women. And oh, by the way, she was the first female master taster. worked with a lot of iconic brands and like Woodford Reserve so she's very influential in this world of bourbon. And to me personally, just one of my best friends. Well, I think 8:56 I think we put up on a pedestal and padded that ego enough, we should probably go go ahead and introduce her. So today on the show, we have Peggy know Stevens, Peggy is the master taster and also an experiential expert. So Peggy, welcome to the show. 9:09 Thank you. I was thrilled to be on this, especially with you two guests 9:13 are you know, you you made it? All right, we're 100 and whatever episodes and we finally got you, and you 9:17 waited this long for me know if that's a compliment. I don't know why. 9:22 There was all these rejections because you know, Kenny and Ryan were just, they weren't, they weren't ready for you know, right 9:28 away. Yeah, we had to me to build our build our confidence is kind 9:32 of how it works. Actually, it's very true. They're, they're very sensitive to our various 9:38 crush your ego pretty quickly, there you 9:40 go. They'll look at the text messages. And you'll know exactly like how bad we can, we can really like hate ourselves. But anyway, I want you to first talk about what is an experiential expert, I have something I'm just going to guess that it has to do something with these these tasting pairing things that you do as well as a little bit. 9:57 I mean, that's part of it. Experience ensure, and a lot of people don't understand that word fully. But it's about the experience, someone has been interactive, hands on, you know, engaging a consumer touching them emotionally. It's all of those things. So for years and years in the beverage industry and managed visitor centers, and distillery operations for the consumer. And so through all of that, I learned how to really engage the consumer, whether it be on a tour or teaching or educating or food pairing. And so when I started my company 11 years ago, I decided that that's where I would put a big part of my focus. So I work with kind of the big boy brands and I work with craft distilleries all over creating experiences for consumers on a tour path. 10:47 And so give us an idea of who you've you've actually consulted for so when somebody goes in here, they're going to be like, Oh, I know that Peggy's had something to do with this place. Right? 10:56 Well, recent, most recent, I guess is the Luxe row distillery in Bardstown if you visited there worked with the Luxe family. And the Gosh, I guess that project was almost a two year project very enjoyable. And then the American steel house for Jim Beam. That was my very first project actually, when I started my company, and then that led to the urban still house, which we helped design, and also their Global Innovation Center, which we helped design the interior and what a distributor or retail would experience, you know if they went on tour there, so that was one of them. peerless distillery comes to mind which I have a little peerless today for you. after this is over, or during whatever you want. 11:40 A quarter we'll see what happens 11:42 a little bit on the victors project. And then of course, I go beyond the borders of Kentucky. So a couple Tennessee distilleries like old forge distillery, Thunderbird distillery, and have one up and coming, then it's going to be announced, I think very shortly, 11:58 will awesome. So I guess, one of those things that if somebody is trying to open up a visitor experience, you know, it kind of seems that there's, there's almost like a formula nowadays, you know, you have a little bit of history, get a little bit of retail, but what do you kind of bring to this table that they couldn't just go and say, well, I'll just go visit four or five places write down what I can find, and then we'll go build it ourselves, we need you to justify your job. 12:26 Well, I mean, technically, it is a process because I think that you have to design a visitor center and distilleries in phases, you know, from what is your story? You know, that's where I try to keep people grounded. Where's your authenticity? What do you want the consumer to care about? I call that the takeaway. You know, if you've ever gone on vacation, and you've had a great time, and you get back in your car, your airplane and you're headed home, you say, Wow, that was just a great experience, because you always have a takeaway. And that's what I try to get all of the visitor centers that I work with, to put their anchor in the ground and say, This is what we stand for. This Is Our Story, whether it be history related, or innovation related, or family related, you know, it just has to be true to them. You know, from that, we start to what I call three dimensional eyes it how do you bring that story to life, whether it be through exhibits, whether it be through the production process, or the engagement of the tour guide. And then once we design the exhibits, we work with architects and construction companies to help fabricate it. And after that point, you know, usually we're writing the script. So we'll help with script writing the product profile how we deliver a tasting 13:40 now, when you say script writing, this is like what when you say exactly like your word as much as I can. 13:46 That's right. We we are pretty granular in our business that we even teach the tour guides, how to tell a story, how to train and customer service, how to deal with difficult people on a tour. So 13:58 how to deal with Kenny, you're saying, Yeah, he one 14:00 that actually we teach how to throw out loud now? Yeah, but it's really no more. It's really soup to nuts. And that's what makes a great experience when you thread all of the things together that I just mentioned, because that's when you can say I had a surround sound experience. And so that's what we try to capture with consumer 14:19 DNA. When you had said like, you know, anybody can just open like a visitor center. To me, that's a little bit like, I've had a lot of people come to me and say, Oh, I can write a book on write a book. You know, that sort of thing. A lot of people think they can write a book. But then when they get down to writing a book, you know, they realize they can't do it at visitor centers are actually very complicated AR and and the United Kingdom, go around to the scotch whiskey whiskey distilleries, and you'll see how, how far ahead American whiskey visitor centers are from from those facilities. And actually, you kind of cut your teeth on probably what is considered one of the hallmarks of the bourbon trail and Woodford Reserve What was I did, what were those days like? 15:03 Well, I'll tell you I look back at my Woodford days is probably one of the best times of my life. 15:09 We're talking mid 90s. 15:10 Yeah, mid 90s and 1994 to be exact, and it was a two year renovation, give or take a few months. It was the brainchild truly allows Lee Brown, who I think was probably one of the most intelligent men that I've ever worked for, and worked with. And it was when the bourbon industry was having its resurgence that you know, we were seeing a difference in how we market and the consumer going back to kind of some of the retro cocktails. So it was perfect timing to create this vision for the distillery and so the beauty of it is the team that I worked with people like Kevin Curtis, Dave Sherrick, you probably heard those names. They were right alongside with me on the production level. And we were almost like a small entrepreneurial spirit ticket that Woodford Reserve to where it is the first year we opened. We were so thrilled we had 9000 people and we thought tremendous. And now it's well over probably 150,000 16:10 like in probably two weeks now. 16:12 That's right. But I was really fortunate. Because brown Forman gave me a really great pedigree. I was able to travel around with Woodford Reserve and see other experiences you just meant mentioned the scotch whiskey trail. I went to Ireland, Mexico, one of my fondest memories and one of the best still today for me, as far as an experience goes as a visitor centers choir vo literally we literally went out in the field with a machete and they taught you how to hack with the machete the A gob a plant in your in the dirt and it's hot and sweaty and gritty. That's an experience. You know. So those are some of the the small things that we learned, you know, to try to create Woodford and then I went on eventually to manage the jack daniels visitor experience and all the brand destinations, 17:03 I got an idea for you. So tell me you can bring it to bourbon now. Now you can say okay, we got to go out to the cornfield, you got to go get six Huff's of corn and you got to come back and you've got to get all the kernels off, and I'm going to give you a pest immortal and you gotta get what happened. Yeah, you gotta chop all these up, we're going to make your bourbon in one day. And that's 17:19 experience. That's it. I mean, that's experiential. Because see, I think the consumer these days are so well educated. They want to be entertained, they're dying to be entertained. And so all they want to do is participate with you. And I think that when the industry realizes that and they allow them to play a little bit at the distillery, it's much more memorable, 17:41 too much free labor to its its tracks, 17:43 it will put all the consumers on the bottling line. 17:46 Oddly enough, they'd be like, I'd love to exactly. But another question that kind of goes, I do want to ask you one more while we're on this topic, because you had talked about scripts earlier? Do you still? Are you trying to find people that are like, let's get away from the whole? bourbon 51% corn? Like, is this the same thing? You kind of hear repetitive over and over again? Now? Do you come through and say like, it's just part of like what it is you have to cater to the everyday person that might not know this? Or do you say like, well, maybe we can create an elevated experience that we can slide that in there. But let's not focus on like the basics for a lot of these people? 18:19 Well, actually, it's a little of all of that, I believe in tears of tours. And in other words, there's something for everyone. There's kind of your bourbon one on one tour, where you do learn some of the production methods, but then give the tourists an opportunity to go to that next level, maybe more of an intermediate tour where they dig a little deeper in the production process and the history and heritage. And then for the advanced lover, and true bourbon enthusiasts, you might have private classes or cocktail classes or so I really believe in those tears. It's just a matter of convincing, you know, the distillery that one size doesn't fit all, you know, that you really have to offer because our consumers today, I think it's more demanding than ever, don't you, Fred? I 19:03 do. And they also like to call things out more so than ever, and I certainly more avenues for them to do that. And you got Yelp, you know, you've got Google reviews, and then you certainly have the podcasts and the bloggers and that's right. And one of the things that typically comes up from these, some of these smaller groups that come out, they kind of create, they create a story, and then they talk about it on on their tour. Let's take Boone County, for example. They They told 19:30 us one of my clients actually, 19:31 yeah, that's right. I knew that and they use that heritage. And you know, some people, they're just like, just talk about the whiskey, we don't care about the heritage, we don't feel like it's, you know, genuine to buy this brand or anything. So do you do you ever? How do you balance that, that effort to, you know, to bring out like a cool story. And, you know, staying with, you know, the contemporary desire to not create false back stories. 20:01 I agree. And and I think it's what we all do or try to do is we have to respect our history, because even though it might not have been history of the whiskey, it was history of their culture, and their surrounding area. And that's what Boone was, you know, they talk about their culture of their backyard. And then they tied in, you know, to the whiskey, and so, respecting the history, but then also have any appreciation for the modern day and innovation. You know, where are we going today? So I think it's what I call a balance, kind of a juxtaposition between between past and present. And that's what you have to bring together. 20:37 Okay, we see a lot of these brands that, you know, talk about, like my grand Pappy carried the yeast back on this toes from the Atlantic. And that's not balanced. You know, that's, that's, that's too far. And so like, if you're, if you're in the boardrooms, and you're saying, guys, you can't do that, then God bless you. That's right. You know, because we, we've gotten tired of that over the years, and we still see it, but it's not as prevalent as it was, I'd say 10 years ago. 21:04 And I think because of all the craft distilleries, you know that I work with and for, I try so hard to say it's okay, if you're sourcing whiskey, just say so, you know, tell them where you're getting it, why you chose the barrel stock that you did, how long it's going to be before your product comes out. Because I think authenticity is really important. And that's another reason why I think the tourists don't want to go to distillery after distillery and say, 51% corn, because everybody's going to say the same thing. And it's just dinner in a movie. 21:37 Let's jump on that authenticity thing for sure. Get some of that. Some just hit me, Kenny. You know, we're in this. We're in this day and age where anybody can come in and say they're an expert, a bourbon. You actually became a master taster at Brown Forman. Explain to us what the difference between someone coming up the ranks in the industry and earning that title and and then someone just taking it? 22:07 Sure. Well, I think that in our industry, what so many people don't understand is that we didn't have a formal definition of for example, if you wanted to be a CMO, yea, then you do all the credentials associated with that you take all the tests and you become a summer. Yeah. You know, in our industry, it's kind of truly up to each and every distillery to decide titles of vocabulary credentials, and master distiller is very different than master taster. Master taster is very different than master blender. But each distillery is going to set the guidelines and training, you know, to advance an employee to become in that position. So again, I think I was in the right place at the right time. Lincoln Henderson was the master distiller at Woodford at the time. And I believe it was about 2001, where the general manager of Woodford Lincoln, they thought I had a really good palate, I kind of have a bit of a culinary background. So I think in food terms, and I think that helps so much and identifying and descriptive whiskey. So I had written the tour understood production, I have a bit of a science mind. So they asked me if I would formally trained with him to become a master taster at the time and my naivete. I think I didn't realize that there were no women master tasters in the industry, if you can believe it. So of course I was eager, you know, to learn love doing tastings really respected Lincoln, in his knowledge and years of experience. So we would do you know, sensory training, we would you know, drill barrels and, you know, pulled from it, and he would teach me the different aspects of that, I had to do quite a quite a few things in the production area. And it's kind of like the whiskey, you know, you're not ready till the master distiller says you're ready. And after a certain period of time, that's when they gave me my certificate. You know, it was putting the newspaper and that's when I first found out when it hit the newspaper, it hit the AP. Oh, wow. And went across. And it is big news, that a woman has become a master taster. In a male predominant, you know, predominant world. And the that's when it hit me that this was really something more special than I ever dreamed than ever thought. And I'm happy to say now there's many master tasters, Master distillers master blenders that are female, I just happened to be, I think, in the right place at the right time that that happened. 24:37 Share with us the 24:40 when that news broke the DJ who called you? 24:45 Well, when I mentioned AP, right, hit the AP, so 120 newspapers it hit. And of course, there was so much interest from radio stations, TV stations. And it was something I wasn't, I don't think I was quite mentally ready for in the fact that there was a particular radio station kind of a shock jock that wanted me to come and do a series or not a series but an interview rather. And they were kind of getting a kick out of the whole piece of the newspaper article that said, she doesn't swallow. You know, she swirls and spits. And they kind of wanted to play on that a little bit. And I remember that, that's when it hit me that I was going to be different. I was not going to go along, just get go along to get along. And I said no to the interview. Because I didn't think that that was going to ever be my persona. And that's not what I wanted to be known for. I wasn't going to joke along with it. I wanted women to be taken seriously. And in a way like men would be, you know, and I don't think there'd be too many radio stations that would ask a man to do that. So I said no to the interview. And, you know, it wasn't very favorably received. But so Obama stood by my values on that. 26:06 Do you think we're better today than we were? From a media perspective? 26:12 I think not really, from a media perspective you ask? So I don't think so. But I guess I want to expand that not just to whiskey. I think on a media level, there are plenty of reality TV shows that, you know, try to get the worst of you the angle to make you not look great. I think there are plenty, you know, of Facebook video, you know, you see this all the time in social media that someone's captured at a certain moment, YouTube video, all of those things. And so No, I don't think media is better about it. But it goes beyond whiskey. 26:54 Yeah. What about the whiskey industry? Is it obviously we've seen growth of diversity. But you still, I still get the sense from from from women, that it's not where they want it to be. In terms of the diversity, 27:12 right, I think we are on a great trajectory right now, I think there's never been a better time for women to be in our industry. The amount of executives and vice presidents CMOS presidents of the different distillery or spirits companies, it's really enlightening, and I'm so glad to see it. So there I think putting women in better positions has certainly improved. Look at the production side of things, we have more master distillers that are women. All of that's wonderful. My question, I think, to the industry is really, once you're out in the field, and when I say out in the field, as far as sales representatives go that are female, you know, marketing representatives who do kind of the day to day job of beating the streets and going to bars and restaurants and it's more of how are they treated these days? You know, that's that's the question mark for me. But I know, you know, internally, it has definitely improved as far as positions go. 28:15 Yeah, I can kind of see that. I can kind of see what you're saying. Because you're still going in to even probably the more male dominated culture of liquor store owners and retailers and bars and stuff that yeah, these people have to go and they have to sell their product. I have to probably put up with some shit every once in a while to I'm sure that's probably not far from the case of what you're what you're what you're hinting at here. You know, one thing I kind of rewind a little bit about that you had talked about going up and becoming the master taster with inside of just Woodford or brown Forman in general what was 28:48 Woodford Reserve decision with Woodford Reserve specifically, 28:51 kind of talk about what those that individual process means are like how was how was Wes? Like, your your Miyagi, if you will? How does he mean like in Lincoln? You mean like it? Oh, sorry. Sorry. How was Lincoln? I'm sorry, I apologize. How was Lincoln kind of like your Miyagi here and your Daniel son, if you will. So the wax on wax off sort of scenario, 29:10 he got so caught up on that scenario, that Miyagi? I know, I forgot. 29:16 It was like, it's like from The Karate Kid, you know, you gotta have you know, and you're maybe maybe a Yoda, if you will. Yeah. 29:24 Well, again, Lincoln to me was was so refreshing every time he came to Woodford Reserve because he wanted to be as much a part of it as anybody who worked there. And he was the master distiller, of course, but you know, had to go back and forth to Louisville, he traveled around the world, you know, worked a lot in Japan, etc. And every time he came in, we would have great conversation, he was a foodie. So we always had that culinary tag that we appreciate a good food, good whiskey. And I have to say he was so well liked by the tour guides, and in the management, because he always had just as calm demeanor. And the reason why I tell you all that is because I think that really helped me when I was learning because he took the time to explain things, the very first time that we met formally to train, this was my first lesson, he had a box of toothpicks, and a glass of water. And then he had all these empty glasses, and I thought, oh, we're just going to taste a lot. And he, as he was talking, he was breaking up the toothpicks and putting them in water. And it's the most bizarre thing I'd ever seen. And I just didn't understand it. And he goes, he goes, I'm gonna let this sit for a minute, okay. And I said, Sure, you know, go ahead, no problem. And then he came back to it about, you know, 10 minutes later, and he goes, smell this playing glass of water. I noticed it. And then he goes, nose, nose, the one with the the toothpicks in it, and I noticed and he goes, do you see the difference would can make? And it was just this? Was he trying to mess with 30:51 me as he means? Well, 30:52 I mean, it was just, it was just his way of teaching and Little things like holding a Glencairn glass, you know, in the small disk that goes on top to keep the aroma, and he would teach me how to move it back and forth, so that I could look, you know, like an expert, you know, tasting it and turn it off. And then putting it back on very quickly 31:14 reminds me of like somebody at the poker table, they're just roll the chip in their in their hands or something. But 31:18 but exactly, that's exactly where the basic so I guess what I'm saying is, I really honored the fact that he brought me to the basics. And then little by little, you know, we advanced her way into the distillery where I was drilling barrels and pulling samples and tasting. And so it was it was really a progression, I guess, is the best way to answer that question. And, again, it wasn't ready till he said, she's ready to conduct the tastings and send around and do tastings. 31:46 What are you still doing today? In regards of a master taster role? Are you actually helping with other distilleries in this sort of thing like trying to dial it in of what they should be releasing or what their barrel should be at? 31:57 I absolutely do several different levels for some spirits judge for the American distilling Institute. So every year, I go and taste product, you know, from craft distillers and rate it and sometimes identify if it's, you know, has been in the barrel too long or still was dirty, or the grains were mold, you know, so we have to give a lot of feedback. And that's kind of tricky. 32:20 That is, that is tricky. I gotta say that that job is that particular competition and that style of competition. God bless you don't do that running. 32:32 But I also think before we get too far from there, I also want you to kind of explain when you just said, How can you tell if something if the if there's something moldy in the still like, how can you How can you get that from the distillate, or I think everybody knows that it hasn't been in the barrel long enough, 32:48 it's a taste. For example, if this still isn't clean, you know, really clean, I can taste kind of wet corn husk that tastes kind of moldy. To me, there's a rubbery taste, you know, and that's, that means something else. So it's all in what you have memorized in your sensory, you know, as a good or not so great taste. And that helps guide me, any anybody who is interested in knowing how to taste, I try to break it down and say it's really pretty easy. It's about food memory, if you know food flavors, you know, like what burnt tastes like? Or what real great savory, juicy steak tastes like, you know, you can equate food flavors to whiskey tasting. And so the American distilling Institute, which we have tons of fun, you know, we have about 70 judges, I think now that come. So that's one area and then for my clients, I do tasting profile. So if it's a new product, I will actually dissect the flavors and come up with the vocabulary to describe it. And then teach the tour guides, you know how to deliver tasting. So that's a job that I do. And then of course, doing food programs, food and bourbon programs, food and spirits programs. food pairings are kind of my specialty. And that's probably what I enjoy the most. When I'm doing tastings. 34:15 Well, there's one other thing that she applies for tastings. Joe went out, tell me she writes for bourbon plus, yeah, well, 34:21 how can I possibly get 34:23 she does tasting notes for the magazine? Yes, 34:26 I do tasting notes for the magazine and do ratings at times when I'm asked but I really have enjoyed that. Fred's taken a very different way of approaching descriptions of food pairings and bourbon pairings. And so I've, I have really latched on to that, because that's, that's my joy. That's what I really enjoy is describing flavors and whiskey. 34:49 So talk about a typical thing that when you are trying to do a food and a whiskey pairing, or food and bourbon pairing, I mean, is it like, okay, on your left, we've got shrimp and grits next goes well with bullet or we've got this and that, but kind of kind of just walk through what's around on a plate here and how you would share? 35:06 Well, the first thing that I tried to have people do is just dissect the whiskey flavors in general. Because if you don't know what you're dealing with, there's no way you could possibly decide on what food that it's going to go with. And then I created something a long time ago called balance, counterbalance, and explosion. And the balance side is simply when you take the whiskey and you taste a particular flavor of the whiskey that's, you know, pretty predominant. And then you match that flavor. Let's say it's Apple, you match that flavor to the food and so it let's say it's Apple, you know, so a slice of Apple, you taste apple in the bourbon. So it's a balance nothing's overshadowing anything. Then counterbalance is when you take a food flavor or descriptor from the whiskey and you try to do something completely opposite. Very similar to if you were drinking a Riesling wine and eating occasion pecan. You know the reasoning is so sugary sweet that it takes over the spice of the Cajun pecan kind of dousing it. You can do the same with bourbon, with really heavy caramel notes and vanilla notes. I could take an Asian dish and have my bourbon with Asian food because it's actually going to that caramels going to wrap around that spice and it's lovely. And then a explosion is when I want to really do surround sound tasting and I might take a great for example, you know I've got a bottle of peerless here I'm I take a great chocolate note out of peerless rye, and then I'll have a really chocolatey, you know, truffle or majestic to go with it because it's almost like too much of a good thing. You know, you're trying to create a flavor that you can't even believe it's taken over your mouth. And that's explosion. 36:54 Fred, did you know that you can pair bourbon with egg rolls? Because apparently you can. 36:59 The only thing I have now I've been able to successfully pair bourbon with has been like fishier styles of sushi. Like I compare bourbon really well with salmon but like, like, let's say a spicy tuna roll. I've not been successful and fine. I've been able to pair a scotch with that, but not a spicy 37:19 scotch is so easy with seafood because it 37:21 really is. Yeah, but there's not. When it when it comes to some of those more flashy or tunas. When you hear those spices, they're hard to pair to. 37:33 I mean, most of our listeners, they would say well of course you want to go at Jefferson's ocean and because apparently it's supposed to bring in this briny, salty taste to it what would what would be your response to that? 37:43 Me? Well, I or or Yeah, I think Jefferson's ocean is 37:50 sometimes it has brightness to it. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't always get it. 37:54 Well, I remember I was very skeptical. The first time I heard you know valve and putting it on the sea, all of this and I thought you know what, I'm going to taste this thing. And surprisingly, salt is not a descriptor that I use ever when I'm doing whiskey profiles. And I will tell you, I really do get a little bit of that sea salt taste 38:16 as I did in the later batches, I it's been inconsistent for me. 38:20 So what I try to do if I'm if I'm pairing with Jefferson's is not to overdo the salt. You know not to have a real savory dish to pair it with because I think it can overtake 38:34 so go ahead. I you know, we're I don't want to get too caught up in all the tasting side of things because we really want to talk about you know, bourbon women. 38:49 Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? Of course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 24. For bourbon on the banks. It's the country wells premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait and get yours at bourbon on the banks.org and through June 30. You can get your discounted ticket offer two tickets for the low price of $110. When using the code b o b 2019. during checkout at bourbon on the banks.org there are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever before. So how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? Rock house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in 40 states and rack houses June box they're featuring a distillery that claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey rack house whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from there, including its beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye, both of which were finished in barrels that were once used to mature America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged stout. And if you're a beer guy like me, you would know that's New Holland dragon milk, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 40:42 I really want to talk about you know, bourbon women you you left. You left Woodford Reserve 90s or 2000. 40:52 I left I left the company 40:55 in 2008 and started my company in 2008. Okay. And, you know, your company was a consulting company you've you've been a you know, personal consultant. Yes. image consultant. By the way, She's the reason why I have a beard. 41:14 I told you I've been trying I've been trying with 41:16 Fred This is this when he was baby face when he had the goatee and you're like, you gotta you gotta grow it out some more. Or is it actually 41:21 it was it started with the goatee was the other It started with a goatee. And I said fill it in and fill it in. But yeah, that's one of I am an Image and Etiquette expert. And, and believe it or not, that's come in very handy because I work in the hospitality industry. And so it's about the look and feel of your employees and professionals. So Fred's 41:43 con wrote a book on it. 41:45 I wrote a book called professional presence. And I teach on that still, you know, too many organizations and corporations, but 41:53 when she's with bourbon groups, she just throws it all out the window. 41:56 Do I Do I dress down? No, I'm just so last thing is I 42:03 usually wear a coat and tie to see me today. 42:05 I did not Yeah, but I also usually wouldn't know which one of the nine spoons I'm supposed to use that are in front of me sometimes at a nice dinner as well. 42:12 Well, and you know, it's funny that you say that because that's where the bourbon industry is just been great because it's so approachable. And even though I'm an etiquette expert, and I had a woman at bourbon and beyond from California came up and she goes, Peggy, you're the Emily post of bourbon. And I kind of got a kick out of that, because I wasn't trying to take that she was no, you're really teaching us. You know how to do things and use things. But one thing lesson I've learned from all these master distillers who I really admire is to make it approachable, you know, teaching people what they can do and how to enjoy it, but not making it intimidating for them to enjoy it. Because we don't want to make it untouchable. 42:51 Scott's dictating 42:54 to listen, and he says his way or the highway. 42:57 So the inspiration for bourbon women? Yes. What was that? 43:01 Well, I think bourbon women, for me personally, my inspiration was when I was still working for Woodford, because I would travel around the world. And when I would conduct tastings, nine times out of 10 predominantly male, which was fine that there'd always be like a little trickle of women in the back. And they would only come up to me, after the tasting was over to ask questions, you know, or ask what I do for a living or, or expand a little bit more on my career. And I always found that very odd that they wouldn't raise their hand when a lot of the men would be flooding me with questions, you know, during the seminar. And then I attended a women's weekend and Kiawah Island. And again, this is back in the 90s, early 2000s. And it was a women's weekend not about whiskey. It was just a women's weekend where the hotel was doing different things, excursions etc, shopping, the normal thing, and they asked me to come in and do a bourbon tasting. And when I got there said how many women It was probably 100 women in this room. How many women enjoy bourbon? No one raised their hand. Nobody, no. Time is over. But then I said, Well, how many of you drink margaritas? They all raise their hand? Oh, yeah. Now we're talking Now we're talking. And I said, I'm going to teach you something now that I think you'll appreciate. You know, when you have a shot of tequila in front of you, you're probably less likely to drink that than you are to have a margarita. I said so we're going to start slow and I'm gonna teach you how to taste bourbon, and what cocktails you can put in bourbon. And then maybe you'll decide, you know, the Bourbons okay for you. And by the end of the night we were singing New York, New York and doing the cancan. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was wildly successful. The women had son, they loved it. And so I think that was part of my inspiration. Also, another event that I did, when I was at Woodford, I have a picture of it actually with Lincoln. We did a women's group, cigar and shopping night. And women came from all over Kentucky to attended Lincoln gave the tasting. We had a cigar aficionado there, you know, showing you how to smoke a cigar and then we shopped and it was wildly successful. So in marketing, because I was in marketing for so long, we'd be waving the flag saying there are all kinds of women out there that want to be part of our franchise, but marketing dollars or marketing dollars, and the demographic skewed always to the mail. And it was just really never took off. So when I started my own company, and there's a long way of explaining it, but when I started my own company, I said I'm gonna start my own damn thing. And so with bourbon women, I did focus groups across Kentucky, and I grabbed some really great friends and then in over Manhattan's, we said, you know, let's, let's test the market. Let's test these women. Let's see if they'd be enthusiastic about creating a platform a conversation. So we did the focus groups, I got all my research together, and I went to go see the one man in this industry who would tell me the truth. And that was Bill Samuels, and I sat down with Bill Samuels, and I said, Bill, I have an idea. And he was always great about listening to me, he truly was, even though I worked for Woodford for years, I was in my own company. He didn't have time, you know, to talk to people like me. But I sat and I showed him all the things that we did with focus groups, and he was like, You know what, I think you've got something here. He was the one I used the word earlier conversation. He was the one that said, Peggy, you're starting a conversation. That's what you gotta do, you're gonna start a conversation with these women. So that gave me all the power I needed to know that it must be something there. So we did an inaugural event at the governor's mansion. Fred was in attendance and you should tell that story actually. 46:53 Speech 46:53 Well, when when we gave the speech and in the catalysts for wisdom women. Okay, so 47:00 yeah. So when she, when she had came up with this, this idea to do bourbon women, she one of the things that she would talk about was like women were some of the early distillers and they were always a part of the industry. And kinda you know, how it is when, you know, kind of my calling card, especially at that time, was to find, you know, kind of call people out a little bit. And I was looking into that. It's like, when I saw that when she told me that all right, I'd saw it. I said, That's not true. You know that, you know, no one's ever written about this. There's never been any, any ads. Like I was like, surely if there's this is true, then brands would be all over you, we'd have all kinds of brands named after women. And I started looking at she was right. And not only was he right, I found women that the brands didn't even know about. And so I said, not only is this awesome, I have a book here. And so that was kind of the catalyst for what became whiskey women. And really at that book more than anything propelled my career to where I am now. But it all We joking, I 48:06 just want to say I haven't made a dime off that book. I don't have commission I don't have I don't have title. I don't have anything. movie rights. I don't have anything maybe 48:16 maybe Oscar Oh, like playing the NBA or something. 48:20 Oscars Fred son, by the way, it's my godmother. It's probably gonna be five, six. 48:24 Yeah. Likely, let's see can dribble Really? 48:26 Yeah. Well, the anomaly. 48:29 Beauty of that whole story, though, is that Fred was unlocking something that he couldn't believe no one had. And so I was unlocking something that I knew needed to be unlocked. Yeah. 48:40 And no, that was in that moment, that that's like, you know, you look back on life. And you know, there's probably a dozen moments where you're like, that will always stand out. And that was one of them. And to be honest with you, if you did not run with that, you know, I because now what Berber women was the first but now they're probably we 30 women centric whiskey groups. Sure. 49:03 National. Absolutely. 49:05 And it started with you. 49:07 Thank you. I appreciate that. We're really proud of the fact we were the first female consumer group to talk to the industry. And now we're in six cities formally. We have thousands of women across the United States that attend we've done over 200 events, if you can believe. And then we have our annual what we call sip podium, si p symposium 200. Women came in from 23 states this year to Kentucky to go on excursions, learn about whiskey, bourbon, the culture and heritage that surrounds our great state. And it's been I don't know how else to say it. It's more than networking. It's more than educating, which is what we stand about. But it's empowering. And these women come together from all over they've never met each other and the camaraderie and that's why I always say, bourbon brings us together. Yeah, it's a universal welcome. And bourbon women's not a demographic. We're a psychographic. You know, it's these women are love soft adventure. They're curious. They have bravado, confidence, a lot of them are really just professional women who want to have a little bit of an escape, you know, from the normal business life. It's been probably I would say one of the best things I've ever done in my career. 50:26 One of the things to Kenny that she's that they're doing is that they are getting data from their, from their members and what they released some data recently about where they like to go well, on the bourbon trail, right. And that was stunning to me. He was like, 50:43 Yeah, what do you think about that? I was 50:45 shocked. It was it will. So it was Maker's Mark and Buffalo Trace, they were kind of neck and neck. Those are the two that I always recommend. But then after that was like, who wasn't on there that shocked me like we didn't see us. That's a Weller. You know, we do didn't really see any of the craft brands. Woodford had a small pie, small piece of the pie. It was it was very stunning to me, like what was appealing to bourbon women. From a tourist perspective? Well, 51:12 I'm glad you brought that up. Because one of the things we do do is pride ourselves on some of our research. And what we're trying to do is kind of debunk the myth to the industry. This is part of our mission that you have to pink, a whiskey for a woman to like it. And so what we found universally, whenever we do tastings with the women, or whenever we're at an event, and we're doing surveys or blind tastings, they undoubtedly choose the spicier, more robust, and higher proof bourbon is a 51:45 memory serves. Booker's almost always wins these things. Yes, 51:49 yes. And also, heaven Hill did one more the Elijah Craig, barrel strength, oneness. So that's part that's really that's information that helps the industry because again, you don't have to dumb it down for women. They like it like you like it. 52:05 So as long as Jim Beam and Heaven, Hell are listening, you figured out a new target for these brands, you know, 52:09 our cohorts coming 52:11 along? We're seeing more, 52:14 or any our co host Ryan, you know, he like he's not here, but he he secretly likes flavored whiskey. So I don't think he would want the brands to listen to that part. 52:25 The other question I kind of wanted to roll with this as well is, you know, we've talked to groups about how they start. bourbon societies and stuff like that talk about what the the growth was here. And was it? Was it small growth at first, did you plateau? In the past six months? Have you seen a hockey stick? Kind of what did this look for 52:47 bourbon women? Yes, I would say we shot off like a rocket when we first began. And then just like when you're selling whiskey, it's easy to get into distribution. But then you need pull through or retention, you know, you need that second order. And because we were in Kentucky, I mean, it shot up. But until we went outside the borders of Kentucky we plateaued a little bit. And then once Indianapolis came on, you know, Tennessee, DC, Chicago, in these other cities wanted to be part of this. And that was the unexpected. I never designed bourbon women to be something that we make $1 off of. I never designed bourbon women to really be a national organization. It was it really wasn't there for me at that time. The women spoke to us, the women demanded it. And we listened. And we we stepped up and we said, okay, we're going beyond the borders of Kentucky. And that's when we really took off. 53:48 How are you marketing it nowadays? 53:51 Well, nowadays, of course, largely through the internet, largely through our website, invitations. We have branch ambassadors in each of those cities that I mentioned that are creating events for women and excursions that they can go on. So that's a big piece of it 54:06 are using like meetup com or something. 54:08 We we do event bright we do. You know, it might be what we call meet needs, which are just real simple meet at a bar and have some cocktails together just to enjoy camaraderie. Or it might be a really formal event. You know, 54:21 you said camaraderie, they're looking to make new friends in a new city. So So kind of what is that? What is that profile nationality is 54:28 the the freshest information I have is just us coming off a symposium in August. And it really took me back because the women I were meeting, they'd been to the last five symposiums and they keep coming back and coming back. But this time, for example, we had a woman that brought her five nieces, you know, all female nieces that were 21. And over. And they made an excursion of it. You know, there was an aunt, or I'm sorry, a mother, who brought her her mother and grandmother to this event. We have a mother that it brings the daughter who just turned 21 we have women's weekends, where a bunch of girlfriends are getting together, and they want to go away. And we're the tickets. So we're seeing all kinds single married, Grandma, you know, young 21, who just got her her, you know, driver's licenses says she can drink now. So all of those things, all of those things, it's a combination. 55:24 So it was there. Is there one that kind of fits more the bill than the other? Or is it just 55:29 say that, but we're all across the board. We are all across the board in age, we're all across the board. geographically. We're all across the board from mother, grandmother daughter. And, and I love it. I think that's that to me, said, this is how women come together. 55:48 Are you trying to do something that's that's unique as well just for just for an all female audience versus something that would just be for a general bourbon meetup? 55:56 Well, what's so interesting to me is more and more we're seeing and more men come to our events, because they think we do very buttoned up events and a very deep in the education, which is part of what we do, and we're proud of. So we're seeing more and more men, so men can come to it. But as far as the camaraderie of the women who are coming, it's the it's what they want it they get as much as they want, how they want it. 56:24 So I kind of want also rewind a little bit to some of the had some questions that were lined up from some of our listeners about distillery experiences and stuff like that some things that that they kind of wanted to know. Sure. And in one of them was kind of thinking about, what do you really feel that visitors are looking to get away from an experience there? Like you mentioned earlier, that they want to come away with some some vivid memory? Like, what, what else? Is there something that is? Maybe it's physical, maybe it is intangible? What else do you think is missing there? 56:57 Well, I you know, I've been in hospitality for 30 years. And when you really boil down hospitality, it all goes back to human needs. You know, everyone wants to be heard or listen to or feel appreciated or feel special. Those are human needs. And so to your question, you know, I think aside from saying I had a great experience, when they meet a tour guide that treated them a little bit differently. That's a great memory, 57:25 or they Eddie Johnson's the best ready 57:26 Johnson is magic. I mean, he's magic. That's what he does. So well, I don't care what level of person he meets, where they're from, what they look like Freddy Johnson's gonna make you feel like you're the only person in the world? 57:41 Do you think he could probably just go out and start consulting? 57:44 I don't think you can. I don't think he can teach what he has. 57:48 It's really an art. Yeah, it really is as much as we do customer service training at different distilleries, and it's an art. And I can almost tell the people who have it or don't after doing it this long, but to me, it's about human need, and making you feel like you're the only person in the room. And that's really what so many of our master distillers have done over there like Jim or Jimmy Russell, to me, I call him the gentleman distiller. He was always in Fred and I just did bourbon and beyond, you're on stage with us for the Jimmy Russell tribute. And that's what I quoted was, he had that magic about him, that there'd be 1000 people in the room. But he was only about you at that moment. So when you ask that question, what's the consumer looking for? What's the tourists looking for? They're looking for a special moment where they were recognized, or they had fun with you and being part of somebody's memory, their entire memory of all the vacations they've gone on? You know, that's a real honor. So that's my philosophy of hospitality is to never forget your part as you're part of a family's memory for the rest of their life. 58:55 I think that's accurate for probably 99.9% of them. But then there's the crowd the old bourbon geeks, 59:03 yeah, 59:04 there are. They're out there. What are you? How do you? How do you prepare your staffs for, for the guy who knows everything and won't hear it otherwise? 59:14 Well, the only way that you can deal with what I call a difficult person, and I see the sometimes in the tastings, I do, I'm sure you do. And you do. There's always one in the crowd. 59:26 There, they're always old ladies, for me, like I always have an old lady, lady bourbon has to be from Kentucky. 59:37 Well, first of all, my advice always to defuse the situation. Because usually when you have a difficult person, they love being in the spotlight. And they want to draw attention to themselves. So you have to kind of diffuse that person, like pull them aside and say, oh, let's have this conversation over here and get them away from the crowd. You know, or Oh, great question. Do you mind if when we're on break, you know, we we asked, we all answer that in just a little bit. Because when you defuse it and pull it away and kind of steal the thunder, it definitely helps. definitely helps. 1:00:09 One thing I don't think we did touch on that we need to before we wrap it up is about the the kind of how you pioneered the the bourbon trail as well. Oh, okay. Right. Yes, we definitely need to kind of talk about that be what the original process was the idea? Who did you say something to I heard it first, it was just a brochure like, 1:00:29 Oh, it was definitely just a brochure. But what's really a funny story, and it was more out of I think, trying to do our job, then it was great marketing, creative minds. There were two women in the industry. That one worked at Maker's Mark door, our, let's see, Don anally. And then Doris Calhoun worked at Jim Beam. And we were all visitors, center directors, I was at Woodford, and we were friends because and that's a great thing about our industry to even though we were competitors, we were also friends, we really enjoyed each other's company, we would travel to tourism shows, and we would drink each other's bourbon, you know, and taste each other's bourbon, and we just had fun together. But we were all in the same boat, we had to bring people to the visitor center. And so we start talking about it. And we said, you know, people are going to see you and they're going to see you and they're going to see me wonder if we did some kind of, you know, cross marketing, that these visitors could come to all of our facility and we mark it all together, you know, in a way that it's kind of a road trip. So that being said, So Daniel, who I don't know if you know that name or not Katie, he was the Eric Gregory of Katie a at the time. And we took it to him and said, Hey, why don't we bring all the distilleries together and put it in a brochure and market it so that, you know people have a choice to go everywhere. And maybe we'd save some money on marketing, and maybe we would get more traffic. And so over a million stops later, as reported, this past year, a million over a million stops on the on the bourbon trail. And I'm very, very proud of that. And Eric Gregory, in my opinion, when he came on board really brought the bourbon trail to life, and put it in a marketing, highlight and importance and priority. So that our infrastructure that all of our distilleries are investing in would pay off. And it's worked. And it's worked. So yeah, so I can't take credit, there was me that it was a small team of women. 1:02:33 How cool is that to say like, you were part of the team that spearheaded the bourbon trail, what is now probably the the most successful tourist 1:02:42 strategy in Kentucky. 1:02:44 Oh, easily. I mean, it's it goes hand in hand with with wine country. Yeah. 1:02:49 And again, I will say, I have not gotten a commission, or anything. we debated back to something's happening here. We'll get you a plaque. Oh, no, thanks, Kevin. I'm 1:03:00 getting something out of these visitor experiences. 1:03:04 People should have taken a penny from every transaction at every distillery and then you would be retired forever. It was, you know, 1:03:09 really, at the end of the day, when I think of the industry and how great it's been to me and the legacy that I want to leave. You know, these are the types of stories that I hope people will say, you know, and I hope I'm not finished. I think there's more to come. I got more 1:03:25 in me where we're starting to see the next wave of Peggy know, Stevens, and that's the writer. She's she wrote me some time ago and said, I'm going to be your best rider before it's all over. And competitive. I said, I said, All right. And her stories have been fantastic. Well, fantastic. 1:03:47 I appreciate that. I do have one more question about this bourbon trail map. How many were there on there when the first one was released? I believe seven. 1:03:54 And what do we have now? 23. Plus, 1:03:57 was Buffalo Trace on 1:03:59 he was called ancient age. Also agent at Buffalo Trace was on there. They were called ancient age 1:

We all know wood influences bourbon, but to what degree? This episode explores both natural and human impact to understand the chemical breakdown of what happens in the barrel. Peggy rounds this out by pairing it with food so you know how to train your palate. Peggy Noe Stevens is renowned for her ability to combine all of your senses into a memorable experience when you are drinking any bourbon. This session took place at the 2018 Kentucky Bourbon Affair and you can buy tickets to remaining 2019 events at kybourbonaffair.com. Show Partners: Batch 016 was a project that took Barrell Craft Spirits over a year. They selected 9 to 15 year old barrels with similar profiles from different distilleries. It’s deeply concentrated, but not too oaky and finishes with a toasted orange note. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: Behind the Scenes of Four Roses Small Batch Select - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my9YR-fr95s Kenny’s Big Batch Mint Julep Recipe - https://www.patreon.com/posts/26331151 This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about who you would like to go out drinking with. All the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel. Overview of barrel making and charring barrels. Innovation with barrels. As much as we try to control barrels and warehouses, mother nature still controls a lot of variables. Barrels provide 6 basic food flavors: sweet, spice, wood, smoke, fruit, and floral. Understanding aroma and flavors. Tricks to neutralize your olfactory sense. What decisions affect the flavor of bourbon? What flavor does toasting a barrel provide? What flavor does charring a barrel provide? The chemistry behind bourbon. Importance of oxygen and water. Exploring the texture of bourbon. Where do the barrel notes hit the tongue? When is it over oaked? The Chew Down: bourbon and food pairing. 0:00 You know how we always talk about the angel share the evaporation of the whiskey going up. But I have to tell you that sometimes that evaporation takes on some of the off notes of a product. So you wonder if those angels out there are going too much tannin. Too much acid. 0:30 Hello, everybody and welcome to Episode 198 of bourbon pursuit. I'm Kenny, one of your hosts. And let's run through just a little bit of the news. Four roses small batch select has hit in five markets across the United States. You've got Of course Kentucky. You've also got New York, Texas, California and Georgia. We did a behind the scenes video with Master distiller Brett Elliot during the media day for this particular release. Brent shares a lot of the information on the mash bail breakdown. 1:00 which particular versions he wanted to go into this blend, and why even chose to do certain yeast strain runs years ago in anticipation for this, you can catch that video in our show notes as it was previously aired on YouTube and Facebook. Now the other kind of fun thing about this release is a full on as money. You've got to remember this is a product extension a line extension of four roses, that means it's going to be widely available, but the first bottle hits secondary in sold for around $200. And now that we know that the bottles just keep popping up that there's a lot of groups that are doing cost plus shipping. Plus, there's a myriad of retailers out there that are able to get this to your doorstep just through online purchases. So just a humble word of advice, don't overpay if you don't need to. The retail cost is somewhere between $55 and $65 depending on your region. Derby season is finally upon us and that means I get to make my annual big batch of money. 2:00 juleps and take to Ryan's Derby party. I use 100 proof bourbon and a 1.75 liter handle, mix my own simple syrup, marinate some mint leaves in there. And really this simplifies the whole process because instead of actually having to create individual drinks now I can just pour directly from the bottle and I promise you, it's a lot better than any pre mix that you're going to find out there on the market. Ryan likes to call it a derby party in a bottle. I've posted that recipe for anybody to access on our Patreon page. It's public, so go and check it out. patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. And today's show is all about bourbon food and knowing how to really train your palate. It's a session that took place at the 2018 Kentucky bourbon affair. Now you're going to get to know Peggy know Stevens a lot more in a few weeks with an upcoming episode. But she has some real pedigree when it comes to bourbon, its history and her connections within the industry. If you're interested in know more about the events that are taking place at the bourbon affair, you can 3:00 See what Tickets are available at ky bourbon affair.com. on our end, we've got some new barrel selections that are coming up for sale really soon. Get to four roses barrels of Buffalo Trace barrel and an Elijah Craig barrel. It's a lot of bourbon, and you can get your chance by signing up and supporting us@patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. And this is all possible thanks to our retail partner, keg and bottle out of the SoCal area. If you want to visit them online, you can do that keg the letter in bottle.com. Now let's hear from our good friend Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the jar. 3:38 Hi, this is Joe from Barrell Bourbon. Batch 16 was a project that took over a year, we selected nine to 15 year old barrels with similar profiles from different distilleries. It's deeply concentrated, but not too oaky and finishes with a toasted orange note. Find out more at barrellbourbon com. 3:56 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char Bourbons filled with 4:00 Some of the greatest characters of all time. There are so many that it's almost impossible to pick just one you'd like to go out drinking with. Whether it's on a golf course fishing pond or a watering hole, there are so many unique individuals, it would be tough to choose. That became obvious when I put this question out on Twitter. Who would you like to most go out drinking with and bourbon? While flattered many suggested me, I really am. Jim Beam spread No. Buffalo Trace is Freddy Johnson and wild turkeys Jimmy Russell were the leaders in the clubhouse. Then after all the obvious names were taken. Folks started expressing their desire to drink with deceased urban icons such as Elmer T. Lee Booker know and the Jim Beam. Perhaps the most touching came from Kyle Henderson of angel's envy, saying he'd give anything to have one more drink with his grandfather and master distiller Lincoln Henderson, who passed away in 2013. That thread got me to thinking 4:59 Who would I 5:00 Like the most go out drinking with first when I go out I mean really go out to have a good time. I don't want to stuffy turd who will complain about the bill being $5 too expensive. Nothing worse than the guy who complains about everything. No. I want a jovial laughing rip roaring. Good time fella. And my answer may surprise you, but I'd love to go out drinking with former 1800s era distilling great Cyrus Noble. Today Cyrus noble is an NDP owned bourbon that is owned by the same company that owned it in the 1800s the Hoss brothers, Cyrus noble was a savant distiller whose whiskey was so good that somebody actually traded a gold mine for it. That's right. a gold mine that later yielded $250,000 and high grade gold or here's the catch though with drinking was Cyrus. He was a big drunk at 300 pounds. He likes 6:00 Whiskey and was known to drink so much that he would fall over in the mash. And people would pull him out as he was swimming in his own fermented liquid. 6:11 But even if I had to pick up the drunken distiller, I'd love to hang out with the guy whose whiskey equaled a gold mine, wouldn't you? And that's this week's above the char. Let me know who you'd like to go out drinking with on Instagram or Twitter. You can find me at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week, cheers. 6:36 For those of you who might know me or don't know me, I'm Peggy know Stevens, and I'm the founder of the bourbon women Association. And that's who is actually going to sponsor this today as well. But first of all, as people were coming in the door, I was curious. How many of you were here last year with me in my food pairing seminar? Yeah. Okay. And then how many of you this is the first time you've heard me speak 7:00 I've done a food pairing. Wonderful. Good. 7:03 I'm glad I got a few fans in the back of the room. Well, let me tell you that whether you have been through a food pairing with me, or not a food pairing with me, or if sipped bourbon and tasted bourbon with me, I've got some good news. I'm gonna put you on an even playing field today. Let me see a show of hands for those of you who like to drink bourbon. 7:24 Now, tell me if you really like to drink robust bourbon. Even better, even better. Heck, yeah. How many of you like food 7:33 and that means you like to eat. Right? So we're going to have a good day. We're gonna have a real good day. But I gotta tell you, I had a lot of fun with this topic today. That's why it's called the stave is the rave because I don't think our barrel gets enough credit. And I wanted to make sure that was very energetic today. I wanted to make sure that I had quite a bit of rest for you today. So I only drank Baker's 107 last night, because I knew we were going to do some big, bold bear 8:00 Strength Bourbons today, and we're going to pair it with food. So we're going to appreciate that because you know what the staves arrived today. So if you have any takeaway at all, for me personally, this is my little quote for today. grains are the recipe. Yeast may be the sole, but all the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel. And I'll tell you who taught me that all the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel is Lincoln Henderson. And when I was becoming a formal master taster, he taught me that, and I didn't quite believe him, because I knew there were so many variables to creating a great whiskey, right. But at the same time, I have to show you today all the secrets behind it. And the reason why I want to do that is because you see connoisseurs all the time. You see, experts like me all the time. We stand in the front of the room, and we go, Oh, it's got such lovely barrel notes. Oh, I just love the barrel notes. But we really don't explain what we mean. So what does that mean? We just smell wood. 9:00 know we have a lot of flavor and a lot of spirit, if you will, in the barrel. So with that, let's first of all show a little respect for the barrel. Because in the 1800s of course, the reason why the barrel even came into play is because it was kind of the UPS cargo of the day, right? That's how our whiskey or good Kentucky whiskey was transported down the Ohio River. I called that the superhighway of the 1800s. But it was transported down the river, because they would use the barrels and sometimes those barrels Believe it or not, they transported fish, apples, or whatever else they needed, and that's where charring kind of came into play. Because before they put whiskey in it, they needed to get out those other flavors of the barrel that they use apples, fish, etc. For so they char the inside of it. And little did they realized they were making something very special for Kentucky. And if you think about it, even our 10:00 Definition of bourbon, which was an act of Congress in 1964, requires actually for a barrel, new, charred, and white oak, we can never use a barrel a second time. But what I can say is that all of these pieces of the barrel are used. And I'm going to show you that in a little bit too. So let's have a little bit of respect and see what I left for you. This is a stage. 10:30 Do you feel the weight of this stave? Yeah, I want you to think of these as large blocks of sugar. Okay, large blocks of sugar because it has some things in it, some properties in it. And this is how I ended up pairing some of the products that you all have today. I noticed some of you are nosing it which is lovely, I love it. That's great you're supposed to but can you believe that 28 to 31 of these staves are used to make a barrel. You feel heavy and stiff. This is 11:00 Right, this is a barrel heads Dave. And what they do, it's a handcrafted method. This wood is bent best steam, okay to form the barrel so this solid wood is formed 28 to 31 and no wood glue, no nails. Okay, it's handcrafted, the hoops are put on. And that's what you have the barrel 100 pounds empty, almost 500 pounds full to roll that barrel. Okay, so that's just a little bit of that handcrafted Enos. But even more so what's happening in our industry today is a lot of innovation with barrels. And that's why I was saying I don't think that we pay homage as much as we should think about this. This is an actual barrel with some stave inserts. So in other words, after you age, the barrel, some distilleries are actually putting inserts in the barrel to add to the flavor, so they might season it for another five months or four months. call that the finish. 12:00 Another thing that's happening in the industry and innovation is infusion bags. Think about infusion bags. Everybody likes a tea bag every now and then steeping your tea. And infusion bag is a tea bag with bits and particles of wood. And they're steeped into the whiskey of the barrel. So you can see how creative we're getting brands like Devil's cut, that you've heard, they're actually soaking used barrels to get the best of that whiskey out of the barrel. And if you don't believe me, I brought a sample as a matter of fact, and hopefully I'll pass this around for you just don't hitting by in the head with it as you're passing. But this is how deeply the whiskey will soak into the wood. This is called the red line, the red line. That's how deep the whiskey when you empty it soaks into the wood pulling those flavors and karma so I'll kind of pass it around so you can see it. 12:56 But I'll tell you as much as we try to innovate 13:00 As much as we tried to control, you know, the situation with the barrel in the warehouse of the barrel, Mother Nature kind of has its way with us. All right, we can't fight Mother Nature. And let me explain what I mean by that. There are certain variables that Mother Nature controls, and sometimes it's temperature related for a barrel. Other times, you know, it might be weather related. And the beauty of it and this is what people don't know sometimes what happens inside the barrel inside the barrel. If you think of a big Mount Everest, which I have that first picture of Mount Everest. A lot of the whiskey has its main activity in the first two to four years if you can believe it, in the first two to four years now, I will tell you, if you have whiskey less than two years, I call that headache whiskey. All right, and you might say it's really sharp or a little too spirited. If it's too long in the barrel. 14:00 You leave that whiskey too long in the barrel and it tastes kind of a stringent etc. I call that overlooked. We call that long in the tooth and Kentucky. Okay. So think about climbing Mount Everest, all this work, it's really hard. But that's what's happening Mother Nature's making it happen inside the barrel, then we kind of go to the Rocky Mountains, the Rocky Mountains kind of not as hard to climb, but you're still working inside the barrel and you're still making that maturation of the whiskey. But it's kind of mellowing out a little bit. And then finally is the Appalachian, the Appalachian Mountains, you know, we're just over the years, you're not going to have a big climb at all, it's going to be a whole lot easier, but it just kind of gets complexity and color and those types of things that benefit. So those are the things that Mother Nature sometimes can bring to us. But you should know to more on a scientific basis. You know, there are a lot of compounds in this barrel. Okay, and this is where Mother Nature meets 15:00 There's a lot of compounds in this barrel that affect the flavors. And if you think about it, alcohol has a real affinity to wood. It likes wood. In fact, you know what it allows it to do alcohol in the wood allows us and again, Mother Nature helps us with this. But through evaporation, it sometimes sends out. Sorry about that. 15:25 Evaporation kind of sends out some of the not so great notes. All right in the whiskey, and then what happens what we want in the whiskey is it actually brings flavor notes inside the barrel. Okay, so that's a good thing for whiskey it actually helps churn it but the more sugar and the more tannins are in wine because of low barrel entry proof 15% barrel entry. So you know what I say to you one folks, 15:56 your sissies 15% 16:00 Come on now, really, you know when we're having 125 proof, whiskeys and barrel strength whiskies and you know, we're not scared and Kentucky, because we know that's going to bring complexity over time. We know that's going to bring depth over time. So I kind of get a kick that it's 15% entry proof on some of the ones that are put in. Also, when you think of a barrel proper, and let's just think about a barrel like it was a menu. If I never added any whiskey whatsoever to that barrel, and I just said to on that would chew on that word and tell me what you think what you're going to get is sweet 16:42 spice. would sometimes from the wood, you're going to get some nutty notes. Okay, and then smoke, fruit and floral. Now, do you see a little flavor and aroma grid to your right. Do you see that we're going to follow that pretty closely because 17:00 It's my job today to kind of break down in some of the flavors of this wood and its natural state, and in its toasted in charge state, because if I can dissect it down for you, you're going to really understand your prize at the end. And the prize at the end is we've paired in order with it, you're going to see how we build these up. Because by the end of this, there are three words I want you to use after drinking this whiskey that I've poured. And notice I didn't put the names of the whiskey, because I'm gonna see how good you are in guessing some of these right? But I want you to say their plush. Hello, Chrissy. I want you to say they're engaging. And I want you to say they're downright seductive. All right, because we're playing with the big boy Bourbons today. Alright, so let's get started. Here's how we're going to use this aroma and flavor grid. We're going to talk about food flavors first. Look at this little piece in front of you with an A on it. Okay, that is vanilla. That is 18:00 Want you to open that up, take a little note of it, dip your finger in it if you like. And also do me a favor. Once you're finished put the lid back on so we don't dissipate all of the aromas in the room 18:14 that knows that a little bit. That is a very important flavor or food flavor in the wood because there's what's called Van Allen in the wood. Literally there is vanilla waiting to be part of our whiskey. So Van Allen in the wood helps the extraction process and that's why you taste sometimes the first note of a bourbon can be vanilla. Now the second one I want you to kind of hold on to your seats here because it's intense. And this is close. I just want you to knows it. There's nothing to taste. This is the aroma sensory but your olfactory senses, frankly are sharper than your taste buds. Now the reason why I want you to think of that close even though it is intense 19:00 If you know what clove is, it's a spice, right? But it's a flower from a tree. And it's very intense. It could be warm, it can be bitter. You know it can be flavorful. So when you think of variations that happen with spice, you can think of other types of spices that come along the way like all spice, peppers, etc. But if I were to have my straight barrel, clove would be the first one to lead the process. Okay, now let's go to the next one here. How about oak? I know that some of you picked up your stage that's in front of you the Glen pick it up again if you didn't earlier and knows that one of my first training guidelines that I learned from Lincoln Henderson, when you want it to impress upon me, the presence of wood and whiskey is he had me knows a glass of water. So you have a glass of water in front of you so knows that glass of water. 19:59 We're lucky and 20:00 We have pure tap, right? We have great water. Not much there though, right? You don't want to smell much from a glass of water, and then smell the wood, the wood in front of you, because what he did was he took a bunch of toothpicks, there's a true story, took a bunch of toothpicks, and he put the toothpicks in water and let them soak and he said, Peggy, smell the water. 20:20 Now smell the water with the toothpicks in it. We've only been sitting here 15 minutes. Now can you imagine over the course of five to eight years with that alcohol sitting in the wood, what a different set presence is going to make right? So I was pretty impressed by that. Now how about we trash See, this is floral notes that come out from the wood. So what we did is we put a little bit of rose water because that's a pretty prominent floral note that you might find. And then other floral can come from that. You know you might have had viscous. You know you might have a little bit of honeysuckle but other florals along the 21:00 Way over maturation will happen. But I wanted you to heighten your senses. Because it's a very sensory exercise. I wanted you to heighten your senses on the actual floral notes. And then in front of you on a little plate or some dried cherries, I want you to understand the fruit note. So pick up a couple dried cherries, pop them in your mouth, chew on it a little bit and see what you think. Because would can bring out some cherry notes. Again, over time those cherry notes turn into other fruit notes. You know, fruit notes like apricots. You know, fruit notes like apple. You know, those are two very basic ones that would come out but I want you to have that baseline before we move in. Make sense? All right, good. So if you're not too full after eating two cherries, we're going to go ahead and move to the other ones smoke, the smokiness which also can turn very quickly to savory but I'm going to give you an example of 22:00 Your tongue lighter of what savory really means. So the smokiness of bacon made sense to me. So if you'll try a little piece of the bacon strip, if you don't care for bacon, that's just fine. But I want you to gain an understanding of what that does to your tongue that smokiness it's a little heavier, right, little heavier little bit more texture to your tongue. But we have a good understanding of that. 22:28 And as we move each one, just to let you know, you might want to take a bit of a rinse of your water if some of the nosing just to let you know if some of the nosing like the clove gets a strong sense for you. A little trick we use is to smell the back of your hand. It will neutralize your olfactory senses just smelling the back of your hand and that allows you to go to the next area. Okay. 22:59 So you can 23:00 See, as we follow along this flavor grid and aroma grid, the master distiller has a hell of a lot of decisions to make. There's so many variables to the barrel. In other words, when he decides to toast it and char it, which we're going to talk about and taste those flavors, how deep does he want to go? So this represents the coloring. This also represents does he want to start spicy, and go all the way to butterscotch? How much chocolate notes does he want or she want. So think about dialing up or dialing down what happens inside the barrel. Over the years, the master distiller needs to make that decision, and they need to make a lot of other decisions about what goes inside the barrel. And we're going to talk about that. So let's talk now about inside the barrel. In the second column of your flavor grid. We're going to talk about what I call interior flavors into 24:00 flavors are certainly the toasting and charring. Okay? But as far as the toast goes, many people think, Oh, well, once you toast the wood, you get more of the caramel notes. And I'm not saying I don't disagree with you. But many times when I do tastings, I talk about after tasting, I'll say it has it really. It's framed with toast, or it has a toasted framework. And the reason why I say toasted framework is because that toasting of the criminalisation is all working together for me. Okay, so it just has a light toast. Remember that when we start talking about our appetizers, so take a bite of the Cristini that's on your small plate. 24:44 Just take a little bite of that plain simple, but need you to identify that toast flavor and then there is a Carmel 24:56 on your plate. Go ahead and unwrap that into 25:00 A little bite of the Carmel now notice, I did not and it was purposeful. I did not do a dark Carmel. I did a light Carmel. You know, frankly, it's craft karma that you probably remember dipping apples in right to make candy apples, very light, very airy, you know nothing that's going to make it too heavy for you. But what we're doing when I told you that those staves are large blocks of sugar, we are criminalizing the wood sugar of the barrel. We're taking a flame to the wood, and just simply karma. So anybody like Kimberly in here, okay. It's like the topping of timber lay light and airy but not burnt, not smoked, dislike Mary. And so that's what we're going for with toasting. And as I mentioned, it certainly does move to the Carmel but it's not a heavy Carmel. And that's important to note. Now are you ready to kind of go into the fun part the 26:00 fun part is moving into the charming. The charming is taking a very intense flame to the wood and we're blistering the wood. You know why we're doing that? We want to open up the pores of the wood so that great whiskey soaks in and out and in and out of that would also attribute charring to that beautiful rich amber color. That depth of color we have in whiskey also contribute to that camp fire smokiness that we have in whiskey. That's so wonderful. So with charring, you're going to get many things. Okay, we're kind of moving from that Carmel that you just took a bite of to a little bit deeper karma and the best example I could possibly give you and you were probably wondering when you were looking at everything that I have for you to eat in one hour. That piece of chocolate that's in the white cup. Let me share with this is this has 27:00 special meaning to me because this is called a majestic. majestic is considered Louisville's candy. And my father This is what I grew up on frankly in Kentucky or majestic is my father. It was one of his absolute favorite candies. And now I know why because you could drink it with his bourbon. So what you're going to have here is dark chocolate. Marshmallow. All right. And then Carmel. So you're going to get the Triple Crown. All right of charming flavors. This is identical to charming flavors. So take a big bite but save half of it for later because I had a bit of it explosion Pres. At the end of this for your mouth, I promise. So save half of it for later. What do you think of that? You get that you get that chocolate caramel marshmallow wonderful combination. So that's what happens with charming it's like a little campfire. Like a small almost 28:00 I feel at this point, you've had a nice little preamble for your mouth. All right, you've learned a few flavors along the way. We're going to do a couple more. But at the same time, I have to turn because my inner geek turns out a little bit. during the session, I said toasting. I said charming. I said white oak wood, which is all extremely important. But there's a lot of chemistry that happens. And so this is where my inner geek comes out. So I want to share a couple things with you. This is just wood notes. And believe me, not all barrels are created equally. Alright, so when you go to a Cooper bridge, and you see sometimes the barrel staves outside, they're being seasoned, and they're outside and they're drying out, because what that does, when you season the wood, it actually lessens the density of that hard block that you just touched. All right, it lessens the density, so that air flows through 29:00 Whiskey throws flows through it a lot easier. Alright, so that's part of it. And also we're trying to bring out the esters. esters are just a fancy word for stay in flavors. We want wood sugars, and we want tannins, we want the best of wood sugar, we want the best of tannins. And then this is a sample of a woodblock, up close, and all those little dots and all those little veins, if you would, this is called tableau. See, Tableau see is very important. And the only way I can describe it to you of what happens in the barrel is almost like capillaries. All right. If I were to hold a handful of straws in my hand, very loosely, and I poured water over those straws, what would happen? water would go straight through, right? Well, what it does for us is if I were to hold those straws in, squeeze it a little bit, some are open, some are not open, you know 30:00 I might have a little bit of water fall through once I pour. That's what Tyler OC does, it lets the team and soak in a little slower. So it's not rushed. So that's what it helps us do. And that's a very important piece to helping with the flavor components and bringing out the right things that we want for our whiskey. So the next thing that's a variable to think about, and this is the hardest thing, oxygenation, or just plain oxygen and airflow to make it easy. This is the hardest thing for Cooper ej to really get their hands on. And I go back to Mother Nature helping us along a little bit. But oxygenation is really important, because the more air that's flowing through the more fruit notes, floral notes. Also what what we want to happen is oxidation. When people say well, what the heck is oxidation I have no idea what that is. Think of an apple if it were sitting on a table and you left it there a couple days. 31:00 It might brown a little bit and it actually gets sweeter as it goes sometimes. That's what happens within the barrel oxidation with the the Van Allen and the wood sugar is going to kind of oxidize and that actually mellows and brings more flavors. So you want oxidation inside the barrel. So that happens as well and it can also bring some earthy notes. Now once you to taste there's a little sliver of mushroom because I want you to understand what earthy notes bring in your palate. So take a little bite of the mushroom. 31:36 Everybody identify the mushroom, it almost looks like a brownie. 31:40 They saw it for me right? So it's good but take a little bite that is an earthy note. 31:48 That is an earthy note and you can get earthy notes from this and also from the next thing that I want to talk about and that's water. Water is key. You know the first point of 32:00 Water that we're going to experience with a barrel is what anybody know? 32:05 Anybody know the first time that we experience water with a barrel? 32:10 How about barrel entry? Now in Kentucky, of course, we can go up to 125. But some distilleries really debate what the barrel entry of their whiskey is going to be, you know, as low as 103. With Victor's, you know, 110 I think makers and Woodford Reserve us but you can go up from there. So think about when water goes with the whiskey inside the barrel for the first time, it's a bit of a marriage, right? It's a bit of marriage, they have to react together. So the more water that you put in the barrel for the first time, over time, evaporation is going to happen. And that's also a water feature, if you will, evaporation happens and when evaporation happens, the alcohol proof actually goes up because of the big 33:00 Operation Has anybody in here heard of the term Angel share. And you know how we always talk about the angel share the evaporation of the whiskey going up and we can lose 28 to 30%. So it's no joke that there's evaporation. But I have to tell you that sometimes that evaporation takes on some of the off notes of a product. So you wonder if those angels out there are going too much tannin. Too much acid. You know, we joke about it like it's a great thing. Yes. Okay. So, back to this. Another thing that is important is humidity. Think of the humidity that you have humidity actually slows the interaction within the barrel slows the interaction within the barrel, and then the water that you actually put when you pour a glass of whiskey, and you put some water with a splash that actually opens up the fruit notes of a whiskey so you can really focus on the 34:00 Fruit now to the whiskey 34:02 bourbon pursuit wouldn't be possible without the support of our Patreon community and with help of our following partners. 34:10 Now, I've never been inside a prison before, but that's exactly what the folks at Rock house whiskey club did. When they recently took a trip to North Carolina, behind cellblocks, east and west, they found barrels of bourbon being aged and it's entirely legal. Rock house whiskey clubs stumbled upon whiskey prison. It's the home to Southern grace distilleries at Mount Pleasant prison. The prison opened in 1929 during the height of prohibition, and as many as 140 prisoners caught at home until it closed in 2011. In 2016, a new operation moved in and this secure facility houses more than 14,000 gallons of aging whiskey conviction small batch bourbon is the first bourbon ever to be legally aged behind bars is the prison you'd probably want to break into. Rock house whiskey club is a whiskey of the Month Club and they're on a mission 35:00 to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer rock house ships out to the feature distilleries finest bottles, along with some cool merchandise in a box to your door every two months. Go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out and try a bottle of conviction today. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 35:26 Now, before we get into texture, and I know you had that beautiful, majestic, right, take a sip of water, and I want you to taste one more thing before we go into the actual pairing. When you taste de de is what's called liquid smoke. Okay, liquid smoke also happens in the charring. But what else happens in my opinion is it aids in the texture of the whiskey, that smokiness now just take a little fingertip because 36:00 You don't need much. Believe me, not anything you want to drink. Just a little test on the tongue get that savory smoky almost wish to share. And go ahead and put your cat back on. 36:13 So dead and dead in your senses. Would you think of that? 36:18 Yeah, it's intense, right? It's really intense. And that's what I want you to know that it can go from that sweet chocolate marshmallow to that really intense smoke. And it will affect a little bit of that texture that we will now when I talk about texture, I'm talking about the structure of a whiskey. So dip your finger in your water glass, put it in your hand and slide it Okay, it's wet, right? But it doesn't slide super easy. It's just wet. If you were to take oil or corn oil, it would glide correct. same example of texture on your tongue. Water has a certain texture 37:00 oil has a certain texture. licorice has a certain texture. So you can see in the row of texture. There can be a soft texture, a sharp texture like licorice, you know that kind of leaves a readiness on your tongue. And when I call viscosity, so there's a little bit of jello because most people don't really understand the viscosity standpoint. viscosity is how heavy it is. So waters thin, right? Coke, if I were to drink a Coke is a little thicker, but then jello would be the thickest. So there's a little piece of jello in a glass there. Do you see that on that little plate and a spoon if you want to just get a feel for heavy viscosity? Why is this important? Because the barrel strength products that we're going to taste have a lot of texture. And I want you to be able to do this, just to balance is it no texture, wet TechStars 38:00 Dry moist rough, smooth, you know oily thin, because it really plays a role. 38:08 The barrel notes that we're getting ready to taste as well should have kind of a heavy sweet feel on your mouth. Now there's always those basic flavors, you know bitter, salty, etc. So we're going for big, we're going for bold, we're going for robust, and so I want surround sound. I want kind of a heavy mouth feel. So when we taste these whiskeys, you can tell me what you think about that. 38:32 And then the other side of the fence from all the great things that we're talking about, is how to identify a bourbon that might be a little overload. Now I want to make it clear there is no bad whiskey out there. There's no bad bourbon, but at the same time, sometimes things can get a little overlooked. So in that one column on your flavor grid, it can go from Gosh, astringent, kind of causes you to pucker. So after you drink a 39:00 Whiskey if it kind of pulls your self in with your cheeks heat, too much warmth kind of burnt cinnamon flavor. So if I taste something that's too heavy and cinnamon, you know, I walk away from it. Cool. A little bit of mint is a good thing. If you feel like you squirted some Colgate in your mouth, not a good thing. Okay, so something can be too minty. So those are just three little variables that you can look for, to judge some of the over openness, which is very rare to find. But sometimes when I'm doing I'm also a spirits judge. So I taste a lot of whiskies and so sad, very sad. Sometimes I can taste the difference of something that's overlooked, versus one that maybe is too sharp hasn't been in the barrel long enough. All right. So with that, are you ready to eat eat? We have tested your tongue. We have it's like calisthenics, right? We've built you'd like an athlete right now. 40:00 We've trained you. So now we're going to put it all together and so closest to you knows the whiskey. The first one closest to you and tell me what you think. What do you think it is? This is cask strength, if that gives you a hint. 40:20 This is Maker's Mark cask strength. 40:23 And let me tell you, this is an engaging whiskey for me. I think it's very exciting to drink because it truly took on this whole other element by doing a cask strength. So again, credit where credit's due to the barrel, right? When you knows it. 40:43 Sure, it has some elements for me, like makers that I'm used to those elements being honey notes, really nice honey notes, some citrus notes. I normally get that with Maker's Mark Of course, and have a nice body of work. 41:00 Meet with Maker's Mark. But with this cask strength, I have to tell you, I get maple syrup. I get big spice bigger than makers normally has in a spice Would you agree? I also get some walnut and some pecan, little bit of nutty note 41:19 in some of this barrel note, tell me what you get in the nose, anybody. 41:25 And again, feel free to neutralize 41:28 clothes, absolutely see clothes are kind of that baseline, and then things come out from there. So I would definitely agree with that. 41:38 Little bit of that roasted marshmallow 41:42 that we talked about. 41:44 Alright, so now we're going to taste it and for those of you just to let you know this is between one and 114. So if the proof level seems to overpower you, I'm going to show you a little trick that you can do anytime and I 42:00 specifically do this when I'm pairing food because it helps really bring out the flavors. I would not suggest that you do this at a bar when you're trying to pick someone up. All right, but let me show you this one. 42:15 I take a little taste of it 42:18 and then I blow out. It releases some of the alcohol. And when you start talking after that, you'll really be able to taste it. So do a little taste, save some for your food. Just take a little tiny taste of it. But save the other half for the food pairing that we have done with it. That I immediately get that marshmallow. I mean just absolutely get little cinnamon from it. 42:44 Little maple syrup. I even get a tad bit of mint, 42:49 tad bit of mint, that that maple syrup really comes out for me. And that's why I just want to tell you what we paired today. Again, starting on your left to right we have a smoked duck 43:00 With a citrus sorghum on a corn waffle. Now, let me let me break down the layers. Here's why we did what we did. The smoke duck brought to me these wonderful earthy notes that we've been describing. For the last hour. The citrus notes when I was nosing this and tasting this, I get always get citrus from makers, always. So I wanted to add a little splash to that. That was important to me. And then the sorghum. I said, I get maple syrup. So we wanted to add a syrupy note to it. And that's the sorghum put it on a corn waffle. Because that helps with a little bit of that sweet toasted framework from the barrel. And so take a really big bite of that. It's a duck. Again, smoked duck even more important with citrus sorghum, take a bite of that and then take a sip of that whiskey and tell me what you think. 43:59 What 44:00 I was going for just to let you know normally when I train for food pairings in anybody who was with me last year, do you remember this chart that I showed? I go for either balance, counterbalance or what I call explosion. And I'm going to I'm going to tell you about that. Balance is when I'm trying to match flavors. I'm trying to create what I call harmony between the food and the whiskey. I'm trying to complement the flavors that are already taste in the whiskey. counter balance is when I might go the opposite direction. For example, like taking a Cajun pecan and drinking it with a white Riesling or Riesling wine rather, you know, it's it's sweet, too hot. We're not doing counterbalanced today simply because these are barrel proof. All right, barrel strength. explosion is when it's almost too much of a good thing. It's dramatically rich. It's surrounded 45:00 sound in your mouth, it's it's, it's just almost takes your head off. And we've got one example of that today, which is going to be our last one. All the lines simply mean the level of intensity. And so as we're talking and as we're tasting you know if I say gosh, I get honey notes or cinnamon notes, you could say gosh, what level you know, just small cinnamon notes are really really robust cinnamon note, because that's how you can manage the balance of your food and your whiskey. So that being said, let's go to the second one. They might want to guess what the second one is. 45:35 This one is plush. I promise you. 45:39 I'll give you a little hint. It has a very Admiral, admirable texture to it. 45:45 Big texture to it. Very elegant nose. Do you agree? 45:51 Very elegant nose. I immediately have to say I get on the spice data get all spice fruit notes. 46:00 Get from Apple to blackberry on these fruit notes Would you agree? Four roses. Excellent. This is four roses hundred proof, single barrel. 46:12 One of my favorites. So easy to pair with, because you have these big all spice cinnamon ginger notes to me, you know, whenever you have a lot of spice to play with. You can make anything taste good, I promise. But I do get some light chocolate notes. Vanilla caramel, 46:33 take a sip of it, and that's when the heat will hit the back of your throat but I get an earthy note along with it. So taste it and see what you think. Chocolate for sure. Absolutely you do. They might get the BlackBerry that referred to once you tasted that. Isn't that interesting? And what about the texture? Remember, I said admirably textured. What's your tongue doing right now? 47:01 Nice, heavy, wet, not too oily. It's a long sweet dry finish, which I like in a whiskey. 47:11 It's just impeccably balanced. So here's what we did on number two, and it's your middle, the middle appetizer in front of you. It is all spicy braised pork 47:26 with a barrel aged maple. Okay. 47:30 So try that. That pork. Again capturing the earthy note. But notice I said all spice because truly with four roses, I get a whole lot of all spice nutmeg, cinnamon, little clove, and I knew it would balance okay. You like that one? 47:52 Which one did you like better? The first one or the second one? 47:57 Second one. Okay. 48:00 Did you get the all spice balance the harmony of all that. 48:05 And again, four roses is 100 proof. So we didn't have to work too hard, you know to pair with a food and let the food flavors come through which is nice. Now take a little sip of water. Because the next one I dial that up a bit. I definitely doubt it up event. Does everybody remember me asking you to hang on to the other half of your MMA, Jessica? Okay, good. I'm glad you did. Because 48:35 I want you to knows that third glass and tell me what you think it is. 48:42 I mean, it is it's really dramatic. Dramatic knows, I have to say. 48:48 I was at a bourbon women function. It was called Heaslip she sips and we had blind tastings all over the room. And this barrel strength whiskey 49:00 was the favorite among women, which should not surprise me. You know, I'm in seven cities with bourbon women. We have thousands of members across the United States. And we always go for the more robust, heavier whiskies. It's very interesting to me. 49:16 But isn't that knows incredible? Do you get immediate kind of smoky Carmel? Pardon me? Yes, allows your Craig barrel string Very good. Very good. And I have been so impressed because it's just lavishly built. This whiskey is just lavish. 49:38 So I get the smoky notes, of course, I get the heavy Carmel notes. I also of course, get a little vanilla and believe it or not on the spice side of things, a touch of paprika. 49:55 And I get a little touch of paprika you know, not too strong, not too harsh. 50:00 very subtly balanced in that not like the four roses where I get more of the spice notes if you will. So what I decided to do with this because where you're going to, frankly just almost freak out is the texture of this whiskey. When you taste it, let it sit, swallow and let it come back to you. I think you're going to be impressed with the texture and then I'll tell you what I paired it with. Take a little sip. Do you see how that fills your entire mouth with texture from the tongue to the upper roof of your mouth, the cheeks, everything in its surround sound. 50:45 I get dark brown sugar. 50:48 And this is barrel strength. And how subtle 50:53 how subtle but dark brown sugar for sure. Huge vanilla. 51:00 Huge Carmel. 51:03 And the chocolate notes just screamed at me. Did they scream at you? 51:08 And that's why I couldn't help myself. Take that much Jessica, pop that thing in your mouth. Take a sip of this, but leave a little bit for the dessert that I came up with. This truly my husband and I were sampling the majestic is with this. It was the best sugar buzz I've had in quite some time. 51:26 Promise. What do you think of that? Now again, this is between 128 to 140 proof what I decided to pair with this because on the fruit note side, I certainly got Apple, but also got a lot of heavy red pair. So what we decided to do was a poached pair with dark chocolate and toasted marshmallow. 51:52 So it's almost like eating a Jessica cake. So when you get a chance for that don't even rent Don't waste your time. 52:01 Just go for that poached pair cake. It's the last one there. And take that last bit of Alaska with you. 52:11 Good. 52:13 And that crazy good as not as good as crazy good. 52:17 Now I am confident that you have a ton of questions for me and I'm happy to answer them. We covered so much track in an hour. I can't even believe how much we ate in an hour. I don't think since the moment you sat down, you've stopped chewing actually. Which is kind of a good thing with a food pairing. Right? Do you feel like we've identified some real flavors of the barrel? Does anybody have a new respect for barrel notes? That when somebody says, Oh, I get a barrel note, now you can be descriptive and say Oh, are you getting a little clove? Are you getting a little floral? What are you getting? And even more important, you can actually pair food with your barrel strength. 53:00 bourbon, or it doesn't even have to be barrel string, it could be a bourbon, just find out the age of the whiskey. And you'll know what kind of barrel notes because remember, you know, short barrel notes, probably two to four years, you know beyond four years, you're going to get more complexity, more barrel notes, which I'm not saying that every whiskey has to be old and aged. We're not like those scotch folks, that it has to be a 20 year whiskey. We like to drink our whiskey, you know, while we're still alive. So that's important. All right. And you probably are wondering 53:36 why the heck did she put out a little packet a Mentos say my wondering what we're gonna do with that. 53:43 Because by the time I've had you all eat all that you've eaten in the last hour, if you go talk to somebody outside, you're gonna need this. 53:51 Alright, so we will make sure that you take your Mentos so they don't blame it on me. All right. Any questions? y'all been such a great group today? Okay, that's 54:00 A good question he was asking, you know, between your bites of Food Sampling pairing going to the next one kind of what's the timing? What's the timing of it? And I will tell you, yeah, yeah, you just start chewing and then take a big swig of the Spirit. That's important. The other thing I purposely did that I probably should have told you, I paid attention to the flavors of the appetizers. And I went from light to heavy. And I tried to do that also with what you tasted on the plate when we were talking about, you know, dried cherries to bacon. Notice I had you eat a Jessica first before we went to liquid smoke. Because I want you to gradually build your taste buds. I want you to gradually think about how to, you know build flavors. absolutely wonderful. I hope you've enjoyed it and enjoy the rest of the Kentucky bourbon affair. And we'll talk soon. Thank you very much. Thank you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Chris Zaborowski put Westport Whiskey & Wine on the map with their very large tasting bar and plenty of private picks. This session was recorded at the Higher Proof Expo during the 2018 Kentucky Bourbon Affair. The 2019 Kentucky Bourbon Affair will take place June 4-8. It’s 5 Days. 19 Distilleries. 45 Events. Tickets for the 2019 Bourbon Affair are currently on sale and you can find our more information at KYBourbonAffair.com. Show Partners: At Barrell Craft Spirits, they work with a team that takes blending seriously. They spend months obsessing over hundreds of combinations until we figure out the perfect blend for you. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: Pursuit Series Episodes 006 through 009 on sale now, visit PursuitSpirits.com. The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the Kentucky Derby. Chris Zaborowski helped shape the Stave & Thief Society curriculum. What's all the fuss about bourbon? What do you need to know about buying a single barrel? You have to have a retail partner. All brands are allocated. Do you choose to go to a distillery or get samples sent to you? What's your delivery lead time? What brands are available for barrel selections? Large vs mid-size distilleries. What questions do you ask when you go on a barrel selection? What is the estimated cost? What is the expected bottle yield? What's the final bottling proof? Can you get it Non-Chill Filtered? Let's taste ours vs theirs. Transcription 0:00 Good morning. 0:02 Tracy is checking everybody and I'll just go ahead and do get some great brief introductions. I like you know, I like to spotlight some of the standard from the screen. 0:19 This is Episode 195. of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host, Kevin Coleman. And let's go through just a little bit of our news, if you will, because I want to make sure that you are getting your travel booked and your tickets bought for bourbon and beyond 2019 is be taking place September 22, and 23rd the headliners have been announced the accident announce you've got people such as myself and Ryan and Fred and Blake from bourbon air and Brian from sipping corn, we're all going to be there in Jordan from drinking bourbon. We're all going to be there we all have sessions on the stages at the bourbon tense. We want to see you there. So go into get your information and tickets about the festival at bourbon and beyond.com. For all our supporters out there on Patreon, we have to say thank you. And for people that are on the edge about it, guess what, we've got some new reward levels available. We have some that are just our think us at $1 a month and we have all the way up to $250 a month that gets you bottles of pursuit series, you get your opportunity to be on the podcast. You also get a one year subscription to bourbon plus magazine. tons of stuff. I want you to go and check it out patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit because we wanted to revamp this to bring newer and fresher rewards. And is also a reminder to say thank you for everybody that is supporting us because it is that community that funds this podcast to keep it going. So again, huge thank you to you out there. And episodes 678 and nine for pursuit series are now available. You can check out our revamped website that makes it a little bit easier navigation and quicker by now buttons over at pursuit spirits.com you've probably heard us talk about Westport whiskey and wine on the podcast before. We recommend it highly is one of those retailers for folks to visit when they're coming to Louisville when they're seeing the bourbon trail. They have a very large tasting bar and plenty of private barrel selections available. And those private pics is kind of what put Chris Zebrowski on the map. This session that we're going to talk about or what you're going to be hearing from today was recorded at the higher proof Expo during the 2018 Kentucky bourbon affair. The 2019 Kentucky bourbon affair will be taking place June 4 through the eighth it's five days 19 distilleries and 45 total events. Tickets for the 2019 bourbon affair are currently on sale. And you can find out more information at ky bourbon affair.com. Now let's check out what our friend Joe over a barrel bourbon has to say. And then we've got Fred Minnick with above that you are 3:07 Hi, this is Joe from barrel bourbon. I work with a team that takes blending seriously. We spend months obsessing over hundreds of combinations until we figure out the perfect blend for you find out more a barrel bourbon calm. 3:21 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. The Kentucky Derby is coming up. And if you live in Kentucky, you know it well, because we've been celebrating it really since last year. And the fact is, the Kentucky Derby is a part of our culture. It's who we are. It's it's next to bourbon, it's probably the most important asset that we have to this great state. And frankly, the horses also add like an element of beauty to the Commonwealth. We also get a lot of phone calls for tickets and emails wanting to know where the special parties are. That's always a lot of fun to tell people okay, there are plenty to tickets available. five grand a pop if you want to sit here 500 if you want to sit there. 4:05 Yeah, it's it's expensive the Kentucky Derby is, but it's a once in a lifetime event. And if you've never been, you have to find a way to come out to Kentucky and enjoy the best two minutes and all of sports. With that said, If you cannot attend, you can still enjoy at home. I dare say your local market will probably have a Kentucky Derby party. And if you don't have a Kentucky Derby party already in existence, then create one. In the latest issue of bourbon plus magazine Peggy know Stevens talks about how to throw a Kentucky Derby party. And if you are looking to find ways to bet there's no need to bring in an outside bookie, all you have to do is download the twins buyers app. And you can bet on the horses as as they're getting in the gates or even while they're in the paddock, you can bet days in advance. And I'm telling you betting on horse racing, especially the derby. While you have bourbon in your hand, there is just something romantic about it. It's a connection to who we were in the past, and a little bit of who we are now and where we're going. So some hints on your bedding. I like to focus on the speed. Like there is a there's a line in the program where it talks about the speed. always pick the fastest horses, and the last turn. Those are the horses that can always give you a shot of winning. And so what I like to do is I also like to compare the speed to the odds. So if I see I have a fast horse with 20 to one odds, I pick him to win place and show and about 35% of the time I get in the money on that. Now, you may say like Well, you're still losing its horse racing, you got very low odds. So 35% is not a bad. Not a bad person percentage in horse racing. So I hope you bet on the Kentucky Derby and have a good time. If you are coming to Kentucky. Hit us up on Instagram or Facebook. You can find me at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. 6:20 My name is Chris never asked the owner of Westport whiskey one here in Louisville, Kentucky. been doing this for a little while. 10 years for the store. But I've been in the beverage alcohol business for well over 30 years of my adult life was one of the first one educators here in the community. And also was helpful with founding the original member of the statement thief, a thief society and helped write the curriculum on developing certified bourbon stewards. So that's sort of one of the reasons brings me to this most important criteria for all this while I did, like you, I like I like to drink. I like good whiskey, I like to experience it and like to share, you know, share a lot of those situations. So we're going to talk a little bit about today before we get into the darkness tasting, you know, some cover some key characters, you know, what's all the fuss about? Single barrel whiskies? Well, obviously, or just bourbon in general, is returned to that idea that life, 7:13 quality of spirits that are present in Kentucky, or we've all known about it for a long time in the world just now finding out about it creates its own challenges in its own right. And then we'll talk specifically about good doing barrel selections and what the things that you will need to know. 7:28 All right, so whiskey supplies are very limited, as we all know. And that's really, that's really frustrating for a lot of us. I'm sure it's frustrating for you as a consumer like going. And I'm really impressed that you're all here and not standing in line at some of the other release parties that are going on this morning around town. So thank you all for doing that as well. I mean, because it's it's a challenge for all of us to find the stuff where yet it's gone from us, for example, our barrel allocations. Last year, we did 7:54 I think well over a dozen barrels of four roses for last year. And we were only allocated three for this year. For example, that's that's how tight the whiskey businesses becoming. Demand for bourbon is everywhere. You know, good, bad or indifferent. Our suppliers are, you know, are trying to send more whiskey across, you know, around the world to other countries as well as you know, around the states. And that dwindles the amount of whiskey. That's good whiskey, it's available for us here in the opportunity to get something you know, 8:24 we started doing a long time ago, the single barrel program because we thought there was a real opportunity to talk about something unique. Lot of the people market their brands saying we have a taste, we want you to taste this way we want you wanted what I wanted to always be consistent. So what we decided to do was to go after the single barrel aspect of this is fine, those sweet barrels. My first experience with doing that was back in 1998, I had the opportunity to go with Jimmy Russell at Eddie Rossum through the old wild turkey distillery. And that was the year that Russell's Reserve was created. It Russell reserved came about from that little bit of the sweet barrel story where Jimmy and Eddie would always go and nowhere in the warehouse, I could pull a really good barrel of whiskey. Now, Jimmy was humbled at the time because he didn't want it to be named after him. But at the marketing at the time, the parent owners of at that time, awesome. Nicole said, well, we're going to brand this whiskey name. And after you said, you're picking and finding all these little sweet barrels, we're going to do that. So first time it resonated with me that there's some distinction going on to find really good barrel of whiskey within situations. Of course, they've been on the Buffalo Trace tour. Most of you all if you've been on that. You've heard the story about how Blanton's you know one of the buttons brands was created Elmer to leave and go pick single barrels of you know, Blanton's bourbon for Colonel Blanton for special occasions and event. They always knew where the sweet barrels were. And of course if you believe the you know, the the funny stories about that are written on the back labels of larceny bourbon about john Fitzgerald knowing exactly where all the sweet barrels where because that's where they usually found him, you know, drunk, but you know that the, at the end the old Fitzgerald warehouses, but the other aspect is every every Stillman in every part people that work the warehouses know where those sweet barrels are located. And that's the fun part of learning that as we've been doing this, and ultimately to go and pick it barrels a great experience, get the opportunity to actually go and used to be that we are able to crawl around the warehouses. But now that's been even more interesting is that only a few people that you actually go into the warehouses where we used to literally go in and watch people shoot me down the wrecks and take a drill, take the whiskey right out of the barrel for you that day. 10:32 there there's a little, little federal law called OSHA that paid a lot of people are standing by and said, No, we can't do that anymore. I can't take the consumers up into those types of situations. But still, the fun ones that have great experiences, we'll talk about those in particular, 10:46 what you're going to need to know, should you want to go after a barrel on your own, you're going to have to have a retail partner, I don't care what state you're in where you're from, that's just because of the because of the 21st amendment, we have a three tiered liquor law system in this country. 11:02 So you have to you have to have a retail partner. In order if you're going to try and purchase a belt on your own. All brands are allocated now. And it's gotten worse, as indicated, talking about the four roses situation, you can't always get what you want. If I had audio, we'd be playing, you know, little Rolling Stones at the moment. 11:21 So knowing that you have to you have to talk about we'll talk about each individual brand here in a minute, what you can what you can look for, you're going to visit the story and make this or make a selection, you have two ways to do that. If you go to the actual go to the distillery and get the opportunity to get employment, your barrel pick, that's the best way to go. But if you're from out of state, and you can't always make it back over here, they will send you samples. And I will tell you this, if you get three samples from a distillery, and you don't like them, tell them you don't like them and ask for three more their job to get you that what you're looking for, Don't settle for what they send you. And if you run into resistance with that, have you read Taylor, advocate for you in that regard to because I think that's really important. We've we do that? You know, there are certain small distilleries that we have to get barrel samples from and I can tell you number of times we've said the samples back said nope, not not not what we're looking for. You know, so 12:16 then you have to, you know, look at your delivery lead time, if you're trying to get something for Christmas, you're already too late. 12:23 And a lot of respects, you know, just for example for this year, because the only reason I'm saying You're too late because most everybody's already cut off their out their appointments, I just got cut off from wild turkey just the other day, there is no new day, it's going to be offered for the balance of the year. So you have to know those type of situations as well. samples, if you get the sample century, that's usually the quickest way to get a turnaround on it. So if you're in a shorter timeframe, that's actually the faster way to do it. Because that way, you're not dependent upon an appointment. You know, the availability of appointments at different distilleries. Questions on that, I mean, it's pretty straightforward. But there's some things that you need to be aware of, as you're, as you're dealing with that quickly will go through because really, we're going to talk about the whiskeys and talk about each individual experience. From the legacy distilleries, we call that those are the big you know, those are the big guys have been around for a long time at bargain 1792 that's still one of the is one of my favorite little places to go pick a barrel, you actually not only do you get not only to get the consumer to where you get to go around, and you know, look, look at the facilities, but you actually go into the barrel warehouse age, they have, you know, usually between four and six barrels, depending on the size of your group choose from, you get to bunk, you get to beat the bugs out of the barrels, you get to put the pipe the then you get your hands wet, full covered whiskey, and you get to taste it, it's a great experience. So you can get an appointment there. That's a really good one. Brown Forman enforcer experiences changing. We will know a little bit more about that, but we're going to be picking a barrel and about two weeks after, after after the opening. So we're going to be one of the first barrel selections down at the new facility. So I'll give I have a better idea. I'm sure it's gonna be fun. Used to be a good you know, going to go to to Woodford Reserve, you got two opportunities, Woodford you can do a two barrel batch, which Chris is doing a class on, you know, as we speak, right around two doors down. That's a fun experience. I've really when I first got in this my bourbon snob and he said, I don't want to do this. I want a single barrel bourbon. But the fun part of that is that you get four different whiskeys and you put the combinations together. And you would think what would be an additive effect, I love the smell. And so I love the taste on this, let's put these two together, it'll be a great whiskey. That doesn't always happen. And it really teaches you what the master distillers going through when they're bashing those whiskies. It's a fun experience. And I really highly recommend it. The double OPT is another one of my favorite, favorite whiskies that we've done, they sort of changed the program a little bit, we're pushing them back to actually thieving the barrels again. So I'll know more about that we've got to pick on August six, then we're pushing that envelope right now. They bring you samples out, they've already pulled the whiskey out of the barrel for you. So it's it's still a great experience a lot of fun, but the batch at what for the batch places the best go lands and our Buffalo Trace, everybody in their brother knows that the magic and the gold happens a Buffalo Trace Well, not all of it. But you know, there, you would think that based on the allocations of the whiskies, based on how hard it is to find even the normal stuff on an everyday basis, when they started advocating me on regular Buffalo Trace. I was like I can't You're kidding me. I mean, I can't buy three cases of 175 or five case, you know, you know, we get allocated even on both sides on Buffalo Trace and sometimes around a product because of that. But when you get to pick a barrel, they're they're modifying their consumer program right now to used to be the first week of December, they'd had a, they'd have a release date for consumer barrels, and a 1201 midnight, I can tell you about 1205 or 1210 most of those barrels of so 15:45 you know, people are lining up for that. So they're they're rethinking their consumer program Bo has yet to release, what the details of that's going to be and when that release dates going to be. But that Eagle rare was pulled off the allocations for 2018. So if you hear all these rumors Where's not going away, they're not going to upscale it. It's just that they didn't have enough commercial really nuff whiskey and storage to offer single barrel programs, but it will be released back in 2019. But those are the four brands you can get. And well or you can get into the special reserve or antique 107 you cannot get well or 12 we keep asking they haven't done it yet. So don't don't look for that one or ask expect that. But that's also a fairly good experience because again, you get the great tour, you go into their barrel warehouse and get the opportunity to get your hands wet the thief the barrels right there to four roses, for us is a really, really good experience. 16:38 If you're lucky, you know brand or our young will be on the barrel pick but their team there is really, really fun. And when you're when you're picking single barrel, which is the OS K, you know, that is all you get like four barrels to choose from. But if you're picking a barrel strength, which is really the big is the real fun thing, you get to taste all the current basketballs that are available. Right now this last year, there were only seven mash bills, you know, available in the marketplace because some of them they had to pull off all the O's were pulled off for 2018 they just didn't have enough Oh whiskey to allow you to pick a barrel from that standpoint. But if you get all 10 as a hoot it's a great day you're tasting 10 different glasses or whiskey right? They're all different mash bills and that's that's really one of my favorite ones to do. And they're a little you know, you can still pull a little even though we were cut back they're still you know, just helped a restaurant tour get a negotiate getting a barrel just recently which is really a lot of fun too. So quick stories on those Vonn to heaven Hill haven't held right now Elijah Craig is the only thing they're allowing barrel sample or barrel pics on and again you get to go back into the warehouse you get to you get to do the full thieving 2019 all the other brands are supposed to be returning at some level. We might be able to get Evan Williams late this year but right now even Burnham wait which was used to be like Oh, please take a break Burnham You know, I've been begging for now I'm begging for a barrel of Burnham you know used to be they begged us please take one please take one so in Henry we cannot kill the keep that one but I think this last year Fred been a callus on that one but naming that you the best whiskey you know, in the ultimate spiritual challenge out in San Francisco this year. It's not drying up and running away yet but I think it's just going to put a you know, it's going to put a crimp on that barrel returning to the single barrel program. Jim beam's another really really good fun experience. If you're going to do about a knob Creek barrel, the Jim Jim Beam, that's cool. You go into their warehouse, warehouse K, all the barrels lined up up if you do all the all that taste, when you picked your barrel, they get on the radio truck backs up to the loading dock that role that barrel right on the truck, you go down back down the hill and you dump it 18:49 you get to watch that barrel being dumped, you know gets you know, watch the gauging tank to say how the fun part is everybody guess is how much the challenge is going to actually hit. And then then they take you on a tour feed you lunch and then you take you upstairs where the whiskey is being proved down to 120 and then you get the opportunity to bottle your own whiskey right there. You go through the bottling line I mean you put you take the balls out of the cage but among the bottling line, you fill them up you want to take one two or three with you that day you're definitely on the wax you Ceylon, they sent it over to the gift shop and you can take it home with you right then it's great experience a lot of fun, long day a lot of fun makers private selections, the is the thinking man's than woman's choice of making bourbon or picking a bourbon you familiar with the 46 process makers 46 where you they had their barrel safe second private selection, they give you five combinations, you five different stage for which to choose from, and you're able to pick what combination you want to do. 19:51 So that's really, that's really a challenge because depending on how large the group is, I've seen some groups take like seven or eight hours to pick it up. That's what I'm sorry that's that's a lot of whiskey it's way too long. But it's still a great experience because you get the opportunity to taste five different expressions of Maker's Mark and get to batch the one you like to do then you literally go and think the stage and the barrel they recoup or the barrel for you go fill it up and you roll it into the warehouse it's really cool experience a lot of fun wild turkey I say this not only is alphabetical but honestly without a doubt that's my favorite of all the barrel experiences we do 20:31 you really go you go into the the oldest warehouse on the property and you know you don't like what's going on particular that he's at he's there with you doing a barrel pick let's say let's bounce another damn barrel out and try something else that I mean you're you're wander around that warehouse and go up there's a there's a bunch of over here let's try these up the night the discovery other side and try these lot a lot of fun, but it's just a great experience because you're really right there in the thick of it. You're listening particular if you get the even with we've done it now with three generations we've done I'm a Gemini and Eddie Bruce and Joanne now the you know Eddie's son and nice are now the next generations coming in to help with the barrel selections. Joanne's I hope she's a lot of fun to pick a barrel worth so do you have the opportunity that that's really really a good one the reserve ride we thought we were going to get be able to get one 2018 but it's going to be on the program for next year. 21:27 And then there's a lot of the smaller distilleries and I'm not going to go through each one but primarily These are great experiences in their own right we've not picked up from all of them personally yet. Copper and kings brand new one is that's that's that's another really good fun one to go do. 21:47 Do to do to do to do to do to do 21:49 new roof it's going to be we're going to be experienced them we've picked okay i barrels from up that new roof before but we've already got our first we've already got our 21:58 date picked for picking a barrel with them. That's an October this year, not next year. So as a typo, excuse me. 22:04 peerless is another really good experience that's why we have that taste today to go from that standpoint and will adjust reopen their barrel selection program this year. And that, you know, doesn't care about the damn you know, Feds at this particular point OSHA coming after we he's like he's gone down the warehouse, you're on the fifth floor, you're on the sixth floor, wherever Let's go find a barrel. That's that's, that's been a lot of fun. But that's our first experience there. So that's really worthwhile to try to when I give one I'll give you a little bit of plug on that I think is really great experience because is picking a barrel word starlight at huber's. Most people locally go, you know, whoever's left sweet one, that's sweet wine ponies line tell you the creativity on the still over there is amazing. We spent several days over there crawling around the still my daughter and in all of our family have gone over their consumers, you but every time I get in there with Ted, I found something amazing, you know, damn off ugly packaging, on tape saying that, but I've told database. So don't feel bad about saying that. But the whiskey is really, really good. He's making some incredibly good whiskey over there. And it's a really good experience, if you really want to just get into a really truly hands on tasting a whole bunch of different selections. He's trying, he's trying barrel experiments. He's trying different policies tried different, you know, different grain combinations. He's taking him off at different points in the still and he'll go through all that with you, you're sitting there, and you know, having a really, really good experience, you know, from that standpoint. So that's just another fun one that I really heartily recommend. 23:32 I know everybody's gone. I want some whiskey. Alright. So next, next, the big things is first question is when you're when you're after you've had a retailer done all this, what the hell's is going to cost me we went through sticker shock one time on one of our barrel selections. Oh my god, this is wonderful. This is wonderful. We didn't do our homework before we walked in as well. What's the cost of this whiskey? It was could be about a $23,000 barrel. So we had to rethink that one real quick. You know, no matter how good it tastes, that's it. That's an expensive investment. Maya so you don't mean talking about retail from that standpoint. But anyway, it's expensive barrel but it's really it was really damn good. So what is expected yield everybody gets an idea already and what they're expected Baba yields are going to be the older the whiskey obviously, the less expensive the less the yields going to be. But that isn't always the case. We were at four roses one year picked up nine nine year old single barrel that we only got 68 bottles or 6060 bottles out of the barrel 24:33 turned out it was a leaker Didn't you know nobody you could see on the outside there were some you know some 24:39 you'd see page and things along those lines, but we didn't know how bad until we picked up Damn, I was one of the best parents who've never picked. We've also picked them you know we're 24:49 pretty damn you know, like a makers makers experience you know you're getting a full barrel know whatever you're looking at, you're getting 40 or 41 six pack cases of whiskey, you know, to 40 is about the max you're going to get you know, you're going to get out of anybody's barrel at this particular point, but the range from the low end like I said, it's 6060 bottles all the way up to 246. 25:10 That's pretty much the range you're going to be talking about that helps you with your estimate and your cost to final bottle proof there's only a handful of places that give you a barrel strength whiskey. Everybody wants barrel strength non chill filtered whiskey well I ain't happening everywhere everybody's going to catch up to what their commercial proof is. People say why is that candle it's very simple it's the it's the approval of the labels with the ATF or what I use called the ATF the TTP now you have to get your coal approval your label approval and not everybody wants to apply for labels all the time. So there's only a handful you know, Flores but the barrel strength and a few other smaller people will allow you barrel strict whiskey otherwise it is you know what like knob Creek single barrel is 120 so like when we taste knob Creek comparison today both number one 129 think about knob Creek is when you pick a barrel their their range very rarely do you get 130s and a barrel pick a knob Creek there and that 120s usually one maybe 131 31 I very rarely gotten one the taste of over 134 we have seen it but doesn't really happen that often. So you get you get pretty close or like it you know wild turkey where they go in where they go in at 103 you're getting you're getting close to the barrel proof when you know because they'll run in that 112 to 15 range and you're cutting them to 110 so you're you're pretty damn close when you look at it from that standpoint, that's that's worthwhile chill filtering. Most everybody still does. Buffalo Trace just took that option off the table you can get there's no filter now. And again chill filtering started with just for stabilization. It was to take out the what was perceived impurities when a whiskey got too cold clouded up, particularly what's below 86 per and that's where the process of chill filtering started was to stabilize the fats and oils so you didn't have to have an ugly cloudy whiskey. 27:03 So most whiskeys you know are still going to be chill filtered couple only a few places offer different bottles size options. Okay, Buffalo Trace is the most flexible you can go from 1752375 if they have those sizes available when you're when you're picking a barrel there for the most part otherwise it's 750 milliliters at most every place you go some some private label personalization that will will allow you to occur again for roses probably one of the best ones as far as that's concerned they give you a whole side label you can put whatever pretty much whatever you want on it 27:36 as long as it is an obscene though they're pretty much into legit to play with it some some of the others will do that as well for you too. But most of them will apply a medallion on the on the on the show the bottle that gives you some level of personalization and then the time from selection to final delivery as I indicated on the one of the earlier slides it can be anywhere from 12 weeks to 16 weeks of course we got one barrel last year that got lost in translation we picked it in September we didn't it until what March? Yeah. So just somewhere got shifted around and nobody quite knew exactly what happened to why that you know, we eventually got it but those are the key things 28:12 all right questions we want to drink some whiskey here 28:16 your way to quiet your all way too polite to muscle you know we do a class at the store. People are already people are already you know got the whiskey picked up already. And you know the noon so we're, you're doing really well. Right being very polite. So ours versus theirs. 28:33 bourbon pursuit wouldn't be possible without the support of our Patreon community, and with help of our following partners. 28:41 Now, I've never been inside a prison before, but that's exactly what the folks at Rock house whiskey club did. When they recently took a trip to North Carolina. Behind cell blocks east and west they found barrels of bourbon being aged and it's entirely legal. 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Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 29:57 So ours versus theirs. 30:01 Like I said, we went on early on to say that the key thing about doing it finding the single barrels is a really fun experience. It's to say, all right, can you can you taste the parentage? Can you tell the difference in the whiskies just by sending them side by side. So in this particular case, on the top, we're going to stop, we're gonna we're going to save the peerless to last on the far left, so we're going to come back to that when we're going to start. 30:27 Start with the Russell's because it's going from proof. 30:33 So we're going to start with the Russell's reserve, which is the third one top row. And actually, this is the lowest proof of the three whiskies that's why I'm starting there. Just give a good nose to it. Nice little bit of fruit profile, I'm getting just a little hint of cherry in there. But you know, just a really nice and a little bit of citrus, those are classics for coming out of wild turkey from that standpoint. Now this first taste, let's just put it in, swish it around a little bit. reason we're doing this one, it's just because it's for me, it's my first day. So I don't know about you all. That's my first session whiskey in the morning. And that's just the opportunity. This is the opportunity set your palate, get the alcohol burn out of the way, say, Okay, all right. give your body the first chance to say what the hell did you just do to me? Because when you taste something that you're not familiar with for the very first time, it's a visceral reaction, your body says, Oh, I don't understand that or I don't know what you just did. Okay, so now we're going to taste the taste the Russell's this time for itself. Just take a little taste. Notice where this hits you on the palate? Really good middle, right, right. This one hits you to me right in the middle and moves back at 110 proof. The alcohol is going to pull the flavor profile towards the back of the throat. 31:47 But it shouldn't as like you know Jimmy it always says the warm Kentucky hug. It shouldn't be a stringent 31:53 first taste to me was a stranger because that's the first taste of alcohol for the day. Now I don't get that heat. Yes, I tasted alcohol get a little heat but it's not in a harsh way. 32:04 With me so far. Okay, so if you're a two fisted drinker, give your regular Russell's in your left hand. Let's take up the single barrel Russell's knows that one 32:16 Do you smell anything different? Less fruity. Okay, I'll go with you on now when I get a little bit more Carmel notes on this one. The Magellan caramels and toffees are showing really well in the in the single barrel. 32:30 Particularly go back and forth would spice in the last you know in the in the regular Russell's in the nose with that little bit of fruit 32:37 softer more Carmel aspect in the single barrel just in the nose alone. Go ahead and taste a particular field This is a creamier palette 32:48 much fuller Yeah. Round from top to bottom mid palate all the way you know front to back. Taste the upper palate on this whiskey to the roof of your mouth starts to get a little bit more you know aspect of this I get a creaminess and a richness here in this particular whiskey 33:06 and that's what I look for when we go for Russell's barrel. I'd like a little bit more they're stronger aromatics because I really think the best thing about picking a wild turkey barrel is getting that citrus component and getting that little bit of the cherry component just didn't get it this particular one but the flavor in this particular barrel i thought was amazing 33:24 if you go back and taste a regular Russell's right after it 33:28 and no offense Mr Russell know south in this taste alright so we're gonna do we're gonna do the knob Creek next 33:36 so the knob Creek the top right 33:40 this is at 120 points so we've jumped up and prove 33:44 this particular one I don't get this particular this particular thing about I don't get a lot in the nose I don't know about you I think it's pretty tight to me. 33:54 Of course these aren't the best nosing glasses let's face it i mean you know with a big nose like mine after my glasses off to put it in there 34:03 I get just a little bit of spice but not nothing nothing nothing too dominant in this particular in the in the nose. What about the taste nice entry for me. Comes in that nice little bit of creaminess right in the beginning pulls back to the back with that nice knob Creek spice 34:22 I've always thought is knob Creek is what I call my cocktail bourbon. That's that bourbon I like to start my evening with because it's really spicy 34:29 you know next good makes a great cocktail if you really want to do that but just even just on the rocks to start the evening off because the higher proof on that naturally but also that spicy component i think this delivers a really nice elegant spice feel. So then we'll grab the single barrel version 34:48 it's 34:50 the question is what discriminates knob Creek from you know regular gym name and you know because it's the same Nashville Well, at every distiller we were looking at they all use the same Nashville with the exception of you know, with minor exceptions between waited and Ryan Nashville's but in the ryan Nashville's are pretty much the same agenda they make to ride mash bills there's the old granddad Nashville and the gym in the gym be mash bills about 7272 corn 1810 malted barley and rough approximate they won't tell you the exact numbers but that's rough rough approximation. Its location in the warehouse and age. Okay, knob Creek knob Creek barrels pretty much, you know, 35:31 outside the mid, mid mid way and not as high up in the barrel warehouses. I think fifth floor and down is pretty much where we where we get these where we get the knob Creek swim, do you mean is everywhere inside, outside up, you know, up down wherever to get that same consistent flavor. Okay. And also it's only four years old. Now Creek is we those of us who've been around long enough to remember it used to be a nine year old age statement, you know, and they took that off about three years ago, but it's still like averages and that eight eight to 12 range depending on where they pull it so that extra time in the barrel gives you more battle and gives you more texture. 36:08 The lower floors you started a little bit more earthiness a little bit more green and herbals and then then you start getting really high alcohol is the higher floors so back to the knob Creek I think it's got a greater I think I can get I think it's got a boulder knows I could get a little bit more a little bit more toffee even in the nose on this one 36:27 and flavor profile. I think it's why I liked I liked the first glass really well because the way it entered I think this is a little bit bigger. 36:38 You could taste that parentage because it came in at the same place. It brought that creams and vanilla is right at the beginning of the palette and it's pushing that nice spice in the back 36:49 but to me The first one was very linear came in on the tongue went straight back went from crane despise 36:57 the single bar version here to me is giving you cream and spice and a whole big mouth feel. It's not It's not your teenage children competing for attention. 37:08 Okay, it's they've hit stride about mid 20s and life is okay. 37:14 And we have a house style talk a little bit about that from that standpoint it was for was here when we have a house style 37:22 every once a while I go off the reservation but you know in will get a big bold, spicy barrel but I want creams and vanilla as and toffees I want to be, I want to be seduced one by the nose to I want that I want that mouth profile to hit me in that creamy, lush aspect. 37:43 To steal a line from Brad Boswell, who is president of independent state company where most most of the barrels come from? Did this really great barrel class with him one time and he's he my favorite line that likes to solve for him is vanilla is catnip for adults. 38:05 Amen. Okay, it was chocolate to be better, but you know, vanilla I'm in. And that's what I look for in those barrels. It's all there that Van Allen is in those barrels. The reason we toast those barrels is to get the vanilla profile out of that barrel. 38:21 And therefore, you get that opportunity, as it ages to get a little bit more of that the challenge has always been is and we've all tasted it over aged whiskey. I'm assuming at this point, whiskey career, you've tasted some that have been the barrel too damn long. Everybody knows it. And do all I get is would tannin 38:41 becomes less vanilla, and more green wood tannin. It's like opening a very expensive bottle of Napa, California read one way to way too early. It sucks all the moisture out of your mouth. That's what barrel Tannen does in a whiskey. 38:56 It's the first thing you do. When you taste that whiskey. As you go grab it glass of water, you have that bottle water and take it back because it's sucking all the moisture out of your mouth. That's a whiskey that's out of balance to me. Now, that may be your style, because I've got a group that I picked barrels with. They want those big, bold tannic barrels. 39:16 And that's that's okay. That's why we have all the different different things. But our style is to be that better balance. I want spice. I want would Tannen but I don't want the tannin to be the overpowering flavor profile. 39:29 And that's where I think this knob Creek shows a great example. The first the knob Creek single barrel commercially has a little bit that would Tannen you know on the aftertaste. But I think this one has would tannin but it supports the supports the overall flavor profile and pushes it up to the upper palate. This one is just bigger mouth field because that to me. 39:50 But this would be one of those barrels that would have been just bashed in with regular knob Creek. 39:56 And I'm glad we rescued it. So I'll do 1792. Next. In full disclosure, the 1792 we're tasting is only the small batch because full proof isn't available commercially for them to buy for us to compare, okay, but the barrel select that we have is full proof at 125. Okay, so we're looking at the 90 some odd numbers 94.75321. You know, it's But anyway, so we're looking at, we're looking at the 79, two small batch first. 40:29 And I think one of the best things about the 1792 is it to me is a great fruit knows, I mean, it's just just a regular old 1792 is a great value whiskey for the you know, 40:41 overall, 40:43 has, has a little bit of sweetness in the nose has a nice little fruit component and the nose. 40:50 And then taste comes in just that nice, nice bright, creamy, but immediately goes back to oh my gosh, we're taught 41:01 to me, it's front and back. 41:06 I mean, it's still good. I mean, for under 30 bucks is a hell of a graph, Greg was whiskey. But for me, if I'm analyzing this, you know, candidly, I think I love the front, the sweetness right at the front of the mouth and the middle of the palette, but then it has that really woody aftertaste. Oh, yes, it's questions that question but common he said he had some friends that every every year they've gone back and pick barrel Pixies seen how the maturity of the whiskey has gotten how bad it's gotten better? Yeah, I mean, the program that they're doing there and Josh man who manages that program he's really gotten to handle of, you know, finding the really where the really good barrels come from in that program. 41:48 And I have a kick up have a great kick out of go down there and pick and barrels with him. So let's try this. Let's its nose the single barrel version. This is it bulletproof at 125 knows how big the fruit noses on this one. 42:06 I get that almost apricot, 42:10 peach type nose in those. I mean, it's a fruit nose very big. 42:16 Little bit of a little bit of a little bit of an lm there but it's just a huge beautiful fruit nose. Nice little bit of spice too. But to me, the difference again, is how much round or this glass of whiskey is 42:31 I don't get that little bit of burn. Much higher proof but I get no burn on this particular glass of whiskey. The fruit, the vanilla, the profile all of that balances the alcohol in my opinion 1792 I was just reminded when you go to 7092 you have three different options on on picking a barrel down there, you can do a small batch like the first one you can pick up a single barrel they call it small batch but the small batch in this case is one barrel. You know you could pick it as bottled in bond 43:05 or you can pick it is foolproof. 43:08 They have three options that you can bottle it up 43:12 so now this is a really linger are finished a little bit of whatever bourbon you want because we're gonna switch to rye so a little water would be helpful for those who are not familiar with peerless if you've not taken the opportunity to go down and visit peerless down a 10th 10th 10th and main I heartily encourage you to do so it's a great tour it's it's truly a family run operation everybody there you know treat your really well. 43:38 They've got a great story to tell. I mean I'm not going to go into all their history in the story but I do think it's one of the best little tours it's it's one of the best hidden gems particularly here in town. If you're not yeah the 10th and Main Street 43:53 Yeah, town. Yeah. Yeah. So if you have opportunity to set a blank time the afternoon call and see if they have an appointment or time but it's definitely worth going to. So now we're going to be talking about rye whiskey. peerless peerless This is there this is a rye whiskey This is under three years old. We're looking at right now they're whiskeys are averaging about 3031 months. Oh, they're coming up on three years age. People go. Okay. Particular when you get the price you go Why am I paying this much for such a young with such an arm whiskey? Well, let's take their whiskey on the top left in this case first. 44:32 First of all, on theirs alone, I'm being seduced by the nose. This is probably the biggest knows of all almost all the whiskeys that we've had so far. 44:41 It's a little bit of buttered toast. 44:46 Good game to play some time if you want to do is get a bunch of different wire whiskey, rye whiskeys and some raw breads 44:57 from a very light rioted fold our political slice them up and tell us a few of them and compare the raw flavor profiles with the whiskey. 45:09 So nose wise, I think this is pretty damn great start. 45:15 Get that nice little bit of green Ross spice in the note 45:19 mid palate back because rye whiskey should not be sweet. Traditionally. Now there are a lot of rye rye whiskeys legal rye whiskey whiskey, that are barely legal because there are 51% raw definition rye whiskey is just like bourbon 51% ry is all the minimum right you have to have doesn't tell you what the other small grains can be. Most commercial rye whiskeys will have 45:49 you know somewhere that 50s to low, low 60s, raw 45:55 bar large percentage of corn and then your malted barley. I think the quality the other whiskeys, amazing, expensive as hell. Somebody asked what the price is about I want to you know, it's buck tend to buck and a quarter depending where you go shopping. And in Kentucky, what, yeah, even a distillery in Kentucky, we have a value added tax or if you're from out of town, we have we have 11% value added tax at the wholesale level. So that in flight to inflate your bottle costs by about 15%. So you can go you can find this, you know a lot of places around the country about 100 bucks, or sometimes even less, but here it's hundred a quarter, you know, hundred 10 You know, it just because our taxes graphic crazy. So look at the single barrel version of this. What I really liked about this one is the Carmel in here, this has this, you know, really, really nice Carmel profile with that with that nice spicy finish. And the other thing I like about this is that mouth coding, again, on the front, I'm in the middle, I'm in the back. I'm and this is this one's close to like 120 47:05 it was close to 130 and the 47:08 barrel strength 47:12 really nicely. I mean, to me, it was a nicely balanced whiskey, 47:16 not bourbon. You know, 47:19 from that standpoint, I think it's a little I don't think it's as complex as some of the bourbon we just tasted. But I think it's an amazing complex right. So what do you think? 47:32 Well, yeah, the bourbon I've been tasting bourbon since it's about a couple months old and it's it's very I'm done that but I've been tasting it all. I've been taking it all along. But I think this rise pretty amazing. The question was winds, the winds peerless. Is bourbon, come out with the next next next summer. I've been tasting it's if you like the raw, you'll have the bourbon. Yes, I think the parents is expensive, but I think it's damn good rye whiskey. I think it's, you know, I think it's damn good whiskey period atmosphere. really damn good. Rob whiskey. Thank you all for your time.

Joshua and Jason have been to the Wild Turkey distillery four times now. Each time the two were there they got to spend time with the inimitable Eddie Russell, son of the one and only Jimmy Russell, and father to today's guest, Bruce Russell. While taking Joshua and Jason through Warehouse A to pick some casks for Single Cask Nation (and casks they do pick! two of them to be specific), Bruce talks to the boys about his family (and not just his dad and granddad), learning to write tasting notes with his dad, Jimmy Russell's palate, his own hatred for the word "smooth" (we KNEW he was a good lad!), and Bruce answers, too, questions from Facebook.So, as usual, have a seat, have a pour, and listen in. Unless you're driving. If you're driving, be smart and stay sober but be sure to listen into the conversation! Special thanks to: - Weigh Down for allowing us to use their song "Wooden Monsters" as our theme song- Moana McAuliffe for designing our Podcast Logo- RØDE for making *really* great microphones- Focusrite for making awesome USB receivers- Olympus and Tascam for making fine mobile recording devices- Joshua Hatton for producing and editing

Today on the show, Steve and Jeremy interview the legendary Jimmy Russell, Master Distiller for Wild Turkey. Today’s show was sponsored by Steve Akley’s book, Mules and More (https://goo.gl/EN3wEj) and by Flaviar, the online whiskey club for the explorer at heart (https://flaviar.com). The Bourbon Show music (Whiskey on the Mississippi) is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the ABV Network Revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile in social media.

Steve & Jenn's Crazy Random Bourbon show is an ABV Network Channel exclusive. It's a short show with no set schedule or format other than they talk about a single topic and play a little trivia every show. On this episode, Steve and Jenn talk about Wild Turkey Master Distiller Jimmy Russell. This show was sponsored by Steve Akley's book, Mules and More (https://goo.gl/EN3wEj). Intro/Outro music (Deuces) is courtesy of Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the ABV Network Revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile in social media.

You may remember of Dr. Pat Heist of Ferm-Solutions back on episode 121 talking about the science of yeast. This episode feature his counterpart Shane Baker, Master Distiller of Wilderness Trail Distillery, as he answers all the questions you ever wanted to know from a Master Distiller. These guys are very well known in the bourbon world amongst distillers who know what they are doing. We take a deeper dive into grains and how this distillery has been aging product for almost 4 years and still hasn't released a bourbon yet. This episode is made possible by our Patreon support. Make your pledge to support the show today Show Notes: Tell us a bit about Wilderness Trail? Where are you located? Do you use the same yeast strain in all your different mash bills? Adam Kessell I'd like the hear about all crop yield, and the agricultural footprint of bourbon/whiskey and what safe guards we take for the long term success of the product. Can you continue to keep it local? How often do you turn away grains? What do you think about the bourbon boom from a craft standpoint. what needs to be done to maintain this momentum? Aged stock vs making money. where’s that balance? What advice to give to other craft distillers? What in your opinion is the biggest factor in distilling/aging? Mash?,distillation temperature?, entry proof?, barrel type or aging location? Chris Scott I want to hear more about sourcing grains. We already heard Jimmy Russell say he must source rye from Europe. That blew my mind. Dustin Charles Herr Discuss year to year variation of crops affect on flavors. Steven Granger Discuss how sourcing grains from different parts of the world makes a difference in the finished product.

Beast Masters Club and The Wall Street Journal Plus bring you a rare treat: an interview with Wild Turkey's Jimmy Russell and the chance to pick a private barrel of bourbon! With over 60 years of whiskey making experience running Wild Turkey, Jimmy Russell is a true bourbon legend. Jimmy and his grandson Bruce, now the fourth generation Russell at Wild Turkey, sit down with the Beast Masters to pick a private barrel of Wild Turkey Bourbon.

Wild Turkey Barrel Selection Exclusive with Ed Bley of Cork N Bottle, Reid and Emerald of 1789b, Nick Dikeos of The Bourbon Mafia, and Jimmy Russell of Wild Turkey. Get an inside look at how these connoisseurs of bourbon choose barrels while Jimmy is rattling off more information and history than we knew before. This is a Bourbon Pursuit first, bringing you inside on a private barrel selection. Get 5% off your in-store and online orders at Art Eatables with offer code “Pursuit” Everyone introduce themselves Ed, what’s your mentality going into a barrel pick? Jimmy, what hasn’t been tried in this business? Jimmy, you said Wild Turkey doesn’t produce anything outside of their own brands but what about Old Ripy and Bond and Lilliard? Emerald, what’s bourbon like in Arizona? Jimmy, talk about Chill Filtering Ed, do you feel like we could be choosing barrels that have been passed on by others? Jimmy talks about MGP, Schenley, and more Nick, talk about off-profile picks and why they are desired Emerald, how has barrel picking changed since bourbon has become so popular because you can’t get things like private ETL? Reid, talk about the differences between choosing barrels at Four Roses Jimmy, talk about the oak that goes into making the barrels Jimmy, when it comes to local farmers, does farm to bottle really mean anything? Jimmy, how did you get in trouble with the Wild Turkey pewter tops? Ed, Reid, and Nick, what do you think collaborations of different stores and groups coming together to make something special? Jimmy, talk about Parker Beam from Heaven Hill These bottles will be in stores very soon!

Wild Turkey Master Distiller Eddie Russell joins the show.  He shares stories of growing up in and around the bourbon industry, his early days at the distillery, working for and along side his father, bourbon ledgend Jimmy Russell, future releases and more.

This week's American Whiskey Convention at Philadelphia's Citizens Bank Park featured an air of generational change. At one end, legendary master distiller Jimmy Russell of Wild Turkey with 63 years of distilling experience - and at the other end, a crop of young distillers hoping to follow in his footsteps while creating their own unique whiskies. We'll talk with both generations on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth. In the news, we'll have the latest on the ongoing Nant Distillery saga in Australia, along with the launch of two more luxury whiskies from Tamdhu and Glenmorangie and the details on a new whiskey that honors a candidate who came in second. We'll also update distillery projects in Scotland, Ireland, and the U.S. while and helping a listener with the answer to his question about whether Canadian Whisky is kosher or not on this week's Your Voice.

Alicia, Steve and Evan discuss how much they love Jimmy Russell of Wild Turkey. The Bourbon Daily intro music (Welcome to the Show) and outro music (That’s A Wrap) are both by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com).

Steve and Evan have been arguing for a while over who has played a larger role in the history of bourbon: Parker Beam or Jimmy Russell. This has been a fight that has spilled over into social media and seemingly had no ending in site. The boys decided to “take it to court” and let Alicia decide who made the better case. With their prides on the line, Evan and Steve present their cases for Parker (Evan) and Jimmy (Steve). The Bourbon Daily intro music (Welcome to the Show) and outro music (That’s A Wrap) are both by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com).

Jimmy Russell, Master Distiller and Legend at Wild Turkey, sits down to tell his story. He thinks he’s “Plain Ol’ Jimmy” but once you hear his stories about childhood, befriending the likeness of greats in the industry, and sharing his wealth of knowledge you will see he really is an icon. I want to talk about your history before Wild Turkey. Talk a little bit about your childhood and upbringing. Sports, basketball, track, baseball. I know your father and grandfather were in this whiskey business, is that why you got into the bourbon industry? Were you always around bourbon? What made you come to Wild Turkey in beginning? What was the state of Wild Turkey when you joined? How big was the operation? Who were your mentors? How have you embraced a lot of modern distillation techniques with computers and automation taking over? What was life like for you before the boom? Did you ever make any radical changes to Wild Turkey? You were best friends with the greatest minds in the industry before bourbon was cool. Talk about the comradery between people like you, Elmer, Booker, and the like. Now that bourbon is in the spotlight, are you hesitant on taking a backseat because at 82 years old, you won’t stop and you continue to travel to talk about Wild Turkey. Your son Eddie now has taken the spot light. What’s it mean to you that you get to trust the business to him? From @bourbonooga: Do they wish the old distillery was still down by where Warehouse A sits? From @Primo55: The eternal debate: Cheesy Gold Foil 12yr or Split Label 12 yr? What do you think is the best product that ever came out of here? Give us your thoughts on the 6-8 vs older aged bourbons? From @BreakingBourbon: Share a drink with anyone past/present/future who would it be and why? What are some of those things that you want to leave as a legacy?

Eddie Russell has been working in the shadow of his father, Wild Turkey's legendary master distiller Jimmy Russell, for the last 35 years. Now, Eddie's taking on more of the responsibility for developing new Wild Turkey and Russell's Reserve whiskies, just as his own son enters the family business. We'll talk with Eddie Russell and find out more about his latest project - the upcoming Master's Keep Decades Bourbon - on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth. In the news, Utah's High West Distillery could fetch $100 million at auction, Angel's Envy has fired up the still at its new distillery in Louisville, and the Red Tape Follies return with an Irish tale that has a happy ending.