Podcasts about Kentucky River

Hosts Jim Shannon and Todd Ritter, feature special guest David Sandlin, bourbon historian and owner of House of Commons in Frankfort, Kentucky . This episode, affectionately dubbed "Crazy Eights," embarks on a fascinating tasting journey through five different versions of Wild Turkey 8-year bourbon . The hosts and David analyze various expressions, starting with the recently released 2025 Wild Turkey 8-year 101 . They delve into its nose, noting hints of peanut shell, lemon, and a spicier, more prominent rye note than typically found in Wild Turkey, along with subtle clove and dark chocolate . The 2025 release is also described as more nutty and spicy compared to the 70th anniversary edition . Next up is the 70th Anniversary release, honored for Jimmy Russell's 70th anniversary . This expression showcases more classic citrus and honey notes, with a softer, more viscous palate and hints of overripe cherries . The discussion touches on the different Wild Turkey rickhouse campuses—Tyrone, McBrayer, and Camp Nelson—and their influence on the bourbon's profile .   The journey continues with the 2018 Wild Turkey 8-year 101, which presents a more subdued, classic Wild Turkey profile, with notes of citrus, dark fruits, and honey . Following this, the 2014 Wild Turkey 8-year 101 reveals a distinct "turkey funk," with rich toffee, caramel, and a unique savory, almost meaty flavor, suggesting a lower barrel entry proof . Finally, the 2002 Wild Turkey 8-year 101 is introduced as a "big hitter" . This expression is lauded for its rich, balanced oak and spice, creamy caramel, and evolving flavors of vanilla, offering a concentrated and complex experience . The hosts discuss the history of the 8-year expression, noting its absence from the American market since 1992 until recently, being primarily an export product . The podcast concludes with the hosts and David ranking their top three pours, with the 2002 taking the top spot, followed by the 2014 and the 70th Anniversary edition . David Sandlin, owner of House of Commons, is celebrated for his extensive knowledge of bourbon history, flavors, and his role as a mixologist . House of Commons, located in Frankfort, is highlighted as the only vintage distilled spirits bar in the area, offering a vast selection of Kentucky spirits and a unique bourbon experience, with Airbnbs available above the bar for travelers . Bourbon on the Banks 2025 Smokeys Lifestyle Cigars The Hill House Bed and Breakfast  Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

Avsnitt 236 av Travpodden sponsras av Hell Bent for AM  Jokersystemet.se & Yesbox Gäst: Daniel Redén •⁠  ⁠Elitloppsavsnittet 2025 •⁠  ⁠Daniel Redén gästar •⁠  ⁠Förberedelserna med Francesco i år •⁠  ⁠Skillnaden i fjol •⁠  ⁠Egenskapen som ska vinna Elitloppet •⁠  ⁠Övervakningsstallet •⁠  ⁠Taktiksnacket med Ploquin •⁠  ⁠Hetast av Sweden Cup-hästarna •⁠  ⁠Så bra är Allegiant •⁠  ⁠Frågetecknet runt Kentucky River? •⁠  ⁠Genomgång V75-lördag …och mycket mer! Missa inte sändningen på lördag och söndag kl 09.30 båda dagarna, se den här! En podcast från gamblingcabin.se Besök gärna för mer trav och speltips! Gå med i vår Facebookgrupp för gott snack, speltips, tävlingar mm..

It's This Week in Bourbon for April 18th, 2025. Garrard County Distilling Co. has closed only after 1 year in operation, Cream of Kentucky moves to Kentucky Artisan Distillery, and Angel's Envy launches its newest Cellar Collection Series.Show Notes: Garrard County Distilling Co. closes after a year, faces $2.2M lawsuit. Kentucky River returns to normal, Buffalo Trace begins flood recovery. Cream of Kentucky partners with Kentucky Artisan Distillery as its home place. RD1 Spirits announces May 14, 2025 opening of new Lexington distillery. Graeter's & New Riff Distilling collaborate on Bourbon Ball Ice Cream. Rolling Fork Spirits re-releases Bourbon de Luxe small batch, 119 proof, $64.99. 2XO releases The Vinyl Blend bourbon, featuring high and moderate rye mash bills, $99.99. ANGEL'S ENVY releases Rye finished in French Oak Extra Añejo Tequila barrels, $269.99. Support this podcast on Patreon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Officials say even though the floodwaters in Frankfort are starting to go down, conditions in the city remain dangerous, Versailles Municipal Utilities shuts down intake from the Kentucky River due to flooding and safety concerns, and a USDA program that helped get fresh, local food into Kentucky school cafeterias will soon come to an end.

Catching up with Dave Huff and what to Expect from the Kentucky River Musky Classic this year. We cold call a few friends and Jimbo's Dilemma.... Enjoy

Send us a textDiscover the rich tapestry of Bourbon County's distillery heritage with our special guest Jeremy Buchanan from Hartfield & Co., breaking new ground as the first legal distillery in nearly a century. You'll hear the fascinating tale of how a family discovery led to a passionate revival of bourbon-making traditions, breathing life back into a region once bustling with 26 distilleries. This episode is a celebration of bourbon's storied past and a toast to its thriving future, offering enthusiasts a gateway to explore a medley of compelling flavors and histories.Join us as we revel in the nuanced world of bourbon tasting, spotlighting the sweet corn bourbon from Old No 55 in Indiana. Experience the layers of sweetness, caramel, and the unexpected peppery finish that make this spirit stand out. Our surprise guest, Jamie, brings a unique perspective and infectious enthusiasm, adding depth to our exploration of how different grains and craft distillery methods enhance the bourbon's profile. Together, we uncover the craftsmanship behind every sip, celebrating the artistry and passion that goes into creating quality spirits.Get swept away by the allure of single barrel selections and the unique expression of sweet corn bourbon. We challenge the notion that age defines quality, urging you to venture beyond the label and dive into the rich, intricate world of bourbon flavors. As we wrap up, we share our love for the Scotchy Bourbon Boys community, reflecting on the camaraderie and gifted bottles that enrich our journey. Stay connected with us across social media platforms and podcast formats as we continue to live life uncut and unfiltered, savoring the good whiskey and times that bring us together.voice over Whiskey Thief If You Have Gohsts Add for SOFLSupport the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

Lee Currens is one of the best-known personalities in the wide world of coonhounds. Noted for his big-winning Treeing Walkers at major coonhound shows, Currens is a strong proponent of dual-purpose hounds that hunt as good as they look. Growing up on a central Kentucky dairy farm, Currens developed a skill set for showing livestock early on with his family's registered Jersey cattle. Always taking pride in the animals he presented, the transition to coonhound showing and winning big while doing so, was an easy transition.In this interview Chris and Steve cover myriad subjects with Currens including coon hunting as a boy on the Kentucky River, attending early competition hunts, meeting and hunting with many of coon hunting's most famous personalities, John Monroe, Elmer Harrod and Billy Stinson to name a few, and his involvement in building foundations of popular strains of Treeing Walkers that endure today. Lee discusses his commitment to never hunt an ugly dog. Perhaps his crowning achievement is revealed in discussions about his mentoring several young people into the lifestyle.The interview spotlights a side of the guest that his extensive exposure as a show person has not revealed before. Currens' experience with, and knowledge of hunting with hounds supersedes his many accomplishments in the show rings. His winsome personality, understanding of hounds and his longstanding involvement as an extreme houndsman is all here to enjoy in this episode. ►Get Your Houndsman XP Info, Gear & More Here!www.HoundsmanXP.com►Become a Patron of Houndsman XP! Check out our Tailgate Talks.|

VISIONS IN TANDEM, is a collaborative Retrospective Exhibition of Dobree Adam's fiber art intertwined with Jonathan Greene's  poems. Lexington Art League, August 2 to September 20, 2024 This collaborative retrospective exhibition of works in fiber and photographs intertwined with poetry considers dialogues of vision and voice in the spirit of haiga, the Japanese tradition of painting with haiku. The art of haiga is about the synergy of collaboration, the richness and depth of an added layer of meaning each work brings to the other. This exhibition centers on brief encounters and in-depth responses to living on their Kentucky River farm as well as to their travels. These encounters have brought reactions to landscape, sense of place, colors and rhythms, ambience, architecture, culture, and design aesthetics as well as inspirations for new bodies of work. In the spirit of haiga, consider how the poems, fiber art, and photographs are related, and how seemingly unrelated works influence or redefine one another.Dobree and Jonathan have developed a deep artistic collaborative relationship over their 50 years together. Dobree has become not only Jonathan's personal editor but also a major contributor in the publishing of many Gnomon Press books and books Jonathan has designed and/or produced for others. They have had collaborative shows at the Albrecht-Kemper Museum in Missouri, the Headley-Whitney Museum, and the Evansville Museum of Art.For more and to connect with us, visit https://www.artsconnectlex.org/art-throb-podcast.html

Chili Davis has company! In this episode our astronauts celeberate the Giants TWO All-Star selections Logan Webb and Heliot Ramos, ask if Patrick Bailey was snubbed (obviously!), and discuss if the returns Harrison, Snell, and Ray has come soon enough.On the cocktail side of things Ben is drinking a Drunken Gnome while Matthew is drinking a Kentucky River--a small part of one anyway. Recipes below.Drunken Gnome2 oz Tequila1 oz Ginger Syrup1 oz Lime Juice3 rings of SerranoGarnish: Candied Ginger and Serrano chili tip (careful, spicy!)Muddle the Serrano rings with a splash of the ginger syrup in a shaker. Add ice and the remaining ingredients to the shaker and shake until chilled. Double strain into a rocks glass with fresh ice. Add two pieces of candied ginger to a cocktail pick and at the tip of a Serrano to the end of the pick. Place garnish tip side up directly in glass with tip perched on the side of the glass.Kentucky River2 oz Bourbon (Buffalo Trace)1/2 oz Creme de Cacao3 Dashes Peach BittersGarnish: Lemon PeelAdd all ingredients to a mixing glass with ice. Stir until well-chilled. Strain into a chilled rocks glass over a large chunk of ice. Garnish with a lemon peel.

Listen in as Flop takes us under the hood of the origins of the Kentucky River line and how Nitro won the 2024 King of Hunt at Black and Tan Days. Jimmy also gives us some background on how he and Flop got partnered up on Black Dogs. Thanks for listening and if you are not, please consider becoming a member of the American Black and Tan Coonhound Association. God Bless and Go Black.

There are two larger barrel campuses that Wild Turkey utilizes in their barrel program. The first is "Tyrone," which includes 23 warehouses perched above the Kentucky River near the distillery itself. The other, known as "Camp Nelson" contains only 6 rickhouses, and is 45 minutes down the road, but still near the Kentucky River. Camp Nelson was not built by Wild Turkey, but was originally used to age "Canada Dry Bourbon" This year's Camp Nelson barrel is 10years old from Warehouse CN-E, floor 5 and features a blast of sweet oak with honey, orange, and almonds. This year's Tyrone barrel is 9 years old from Warehouse TY-Q, floor 4 and features soft, earthy notes with a measured oak kick. Both are undeniably flavorful with the Camp Nelson tending to be a little sweeter.

Tasting Notes:  There are two larger barrel campuses that Wild Turkey utilizes in their barrel program. The first is "Tyrone," which includes 23 warehouses perched above the Kentucky River near the distillery itself. The other, known as "Camp Nelson" contains only 6 rickhouses, and is 45 minutes down the road, but still near the Kentucky River. Camp Nelson was not built by Wild Turkey, but was originally used to age "Canada Dry Bourbon" The 2024 Russell's Reserve single barrels from "Bourbon World" which should be ready this summer take one from each of these campuses. The Tyrone barrel is soft, fruity, and inviting with the balance of 101 but the strength of barrel proof. The Camp Nelson on the other hand is rich and spicy, sizzling with flavor throughout.

John Bramel is a Marion County Ky legend. John is a talented writer, photographer, social media guru and avid outdoorsman.  His latest endeavor is partnering with Canoe Kentucky in Frankfort Ky and he is absolutely having the time of his life!  Not only is he handling the promotional efforts for Canoe Kentucky but he is also a hands on guy there conducting tours, educating and hitting the historical Elkhorn Creek and Kentucky River.  There are so many cool things that John talks about on this episode of 2 Shots. Like did you know that Kentucky has more miles of running water that any other state except Alaska?  There are so many cool tidbits that John talks about and you are going to love this show!  True story…. You will be ready to canoe and kayak!https://www.facebook.com/groups/288170582570690 Bourbon Podcast Bo Brothers

Jake travels to Lawrenceburg to sit down with Bruce Russell, the newly appointed Associate Blender for Wild Turkey and part of the famed Russell Family. During their conversation, Bruce discusses the legacy of the Russell Family, creating Generations with Jimmy and Eddie, and what's on the horizon for Wild Turkey Distillery. Stream this episode on your favorite podcast app and be sure to drop us a review while you're there.  We are thankful for everyone who has supported us over the last 5 years. The biggest shoutout to our growing Patreon Community of supporters! As always, we'd appreciate it if you would take a few minutes time to give us feedback on Bourbon Lens podcast. If you enjoy our content, consider giving us a 5 Star rating on your favorite podcast app, leave us a written review, and tell a fellow bourbon lover about our show. Follow us @BourbonLens on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter.  And please check out our Patreon to learn how you can support our endeavors, earn Bourbon Lens swag, be part of Bourbon Lens Tasting Club, and more. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please email us at Info@BourbonLens.com. Check out our BourbonLens.com to read our blog posts, whiskey news, podcast archive, and whiskey reviews. Cheers,Scott and JakeBourbon Lens   About Wild Turkey: The distillery for Wild Turkey Bourbon is in Kentucky, situated on a deep limestone shelf on the Kentucky River. The shelf acts as a natural filter and provides the distillery with crystal clear water, vital to making such a high-quality product. Wild Turkey features the legendary father and son Master Distilling team of Jimmy and Eddie Russell, who have over 100 years of collective experience working at the Wild Turkey distillery. The famous Wild Turkey brand name first came about back in 1940 when distillery executive Thomas McCarthey took a few warehouse samples on a Wild Turkey hunting trip with a group of friends. The following year, his friends asked him for "some of that Wild Turkey whiskey" and the brand was born. Wild Turkey is distilled and put into new oak barrels at a much lower ABV than most bourbons. This results in a much richer flavor, as less is cooked out during the production process. Ageing in the highest quality new American oak barrels with the heaviest char available (the Number 4 "alligator" char), imparts a smooth flavor and deep amber color to the whiskey. The barrels are filled at the distillery in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky. For more details on Wild Turkey, visit WildTurkey.com.

  Set right up against the banks of the Kentucky River are the metal clad Camp Nelson warehouses owned by and filled with Wild Turkey bourbon. The "Single Rickhouse" project which began last year highlights batches of barrels drawn from single warehouses across the three WT barrel campuses. The 2023 release of Camp Nelson Warehouse F was drawn from floors 4 and 5 and bottled at 117.6 proof. The initial palate is a barrel roll of spice and nougat, herbs and oak, red fruit, and really gentle butterscotch and vanilla. Big, tasty, worth the price profile that just keeps going 30-60 seconds after the sip. Chewy and delicious.

October 26, 1998. Kentucky. Kyle “Deannie” Breeden went missing on October 26, 1998. Ten days later his body was found was found by a fisherman in the Kentucky River. His legs had been bound with a guitar amplifier cord and he had two bullets in his skull. His on-again-off-again girlfriend, Susan King, a petite, one-legged woman with a history of gun ownership was one of many initial suspects. King, an unlikely candidate, would be indicted for Breeden's murder when the case was reopened in 2006 and taken over by Kentucky state police officer Todd Harwood, whom it seemed, wanted to pin the crime on King no matter what.Get bonus content from Generation Why at: patreon.com/generationwhyListen ad free with Wondery+. Join Wondery+ for exclusives, binges, early access, and ad free listening. Available in the Wondery App. https://wondery.app.link/generationwhy.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

There's always lots going on when Gary and Mark get together. We got to sample some homegrown syrup produced by Dan Cameron made from sorghum. It's a perfect way to celebrate fall. Gary whippeed up some of his homemade buttermilk biscuits and that got him talking. The main part of this episode is the retelling of just some of the adventures Gary and Steve Blizzard had in 1974 when they paddled 379 miles down the Ohio River and up the Kentucky River to Harrodsburg. They were helping the City of Harrodsburg celebrate the 200th anniversary of the founding of the town (Fort Harrod) by Col James Harrord in 1774. As always, it's a great story.   You can watch the video version of this podcast on our YouTube channel at: https://youtu.be/MxhLcgeCPVs   Read more about our show and Gary & Mark at: www.GaryAndMark.com.    

Join us from The Bourbon On The Banks Festival right on the Kentucky River for a barrel of laughs and a glass of smooth Kentucky whiskey as we sit down with Greg Keeley, a retired military veteran and bourbon distiller extraordinaire. Greg, originally from a winemaking family in Australia, not only spills his secrets of bourbon crafting but also shares an unforgettable story about being shot in the butt! From farming to military service and finally, to the art of bourbon making, Greg's transformation is no ordinary tale. His unique journey led him to create Lawrenceburg Bourbon Company's first whiskey, the single barrel One Cask. You'll learn about the meticulous process behind its creation, from sourcing oak from different forests in France to the intricate charring process. Greg shares how this whiskey strikes the perfect balance of unique flavors and a warm finish that doesn't burn. As the conversation flows, Greg takes us through his distillery, explaining each step of whiskey production from fermentation to bottling. He also reveals his profound respect for bourbon and why it holds a special place in his heart. But it's not all whiskey talk - the Australian influence at Lawrenceburg Bourbon Company shines through in the most comical ways. From Vegemite tastings to blasting Australian music in the distillery, Greg ensures that every day is a 'G'day' at Lawrenceburg. Tune in, have a hearty laugh, and discover the complex art of bourbon making with Greg Keeley. Support the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

This week on The Whiskey Trip Podcast, Big Chief chats with his friends Diane Strong, Amzie Wenning, and Rene True from the Bourbon on the Banks Festival. This Bourbon Festival, held October 6th and 7th in Frankfort, Kentucky right on the banks of the Kentucky River, is an event not to miss. Big Chief gets this trio to take you through every detail of the Festival. From the Friday night VIP Reception and Auction, where the Big Man will be host a Live Podcast conducting live interviews, to the main event of Bourbon on the Banks on Saturday. To top it all off, it will be Big Chief's 50th Birthday as well. In the first half Big Chief, Diane, Amzie, and Rene sample a Bourbon Festival barrel pick from French Lick Spirits that's an absolute must buy once you're at the Festival. In the second half, the trio treat Big Chief to another Festival barrel pick of Knob Creek. The Big man says this 9-year, 8 month old, 120 proof Bourbon is one of the best he has ever tasted from Knob Creek. This ride on The Whiskey Trip showcases one of the premier Bourbon Festivals in America today that will feature over 60 distilleries. Buy your tickets today and come help Big Chief celebrate all that is Bourbon. Cheers!

Episode 26:  In this episode, Molley and Chad continue their focus on highlighting several different lakes in Kentucky and Tennessee, Trasee and Fess are here to provide insights and recommendations about Norris Lake. Norris Lake, located in Tennessee, is a popular destination for lake enthusiasts and vacationers alike. With its vast size, muddy waters, and unique floating communities, Norris Lake offers a one-of-a-kind experience for those seeking a lakeside getaway. Trasee and Fess have been going to Norris Lake since 2005, giving them a wealth of experience and knowledge about the area. They own a Sea Ray 220 Sundeck, which is not their first boat. They talk about their earlier days with a smaller boat (Sea Ray 190). When asked why they chose Norris Lake out of all the lakes in the region, Trasee explains that they were introduced to it by a friend. They used to gather with friends for Labor Day vacations, exploring different places each year. Eventually, they heard about Norris Lake and decided to give it a try. They initially had a challenging experience with low water levels and muddy conditions, but they fell in love with the lake and have been returning ever since. Norris Lake is a man-made lake, spanning 33,000 acres with 809 miles of shoreline. There are many marinas scattered across the lake, with Trasee and Fess admitting that they have only visited five out of the twenty-one marinas available. They also mention that all marinas have boat ramps, making it convenient for boaters to access the lake. Trasee and Fess have a home in Andersonville.  It's near the middle of the lake.  They have easy access to at least 5 marinas. The Floating Communities on Norris Lake One unique feature of Norris Lake is the presence of floating communities. There are approximately 2,100 floating houses on the lake, and many marinas host these communities. The hosts inquire about Trasee and Fess's thoughts on the floating houses, and they reveal that they were initially intrigued by the idea but changed their minds after speaking to people who had experience with them. Lake Like Is Fun and Convenient Lake life is fun and convenient. Trasee and Fess discuss their love for the lake and the reasons why they chose to embrace the lake life lifestyle. Their stories highlight the enjoyment and convenience that comes with living near the water. Trasee's love for the water began at a young age when she had the opportunity to spend time on a friend's boat. She quickly realized how much fun it was and became hooked on the water. Fess, on the other hand, grew up as a river rat, spending his time on the Ohio River and Kentucky River. When Trasee expressed her desire to explore other bodies of water, they decided to venture into lake life.  They spent 12-13 years boating on the river, but Trasee really wanted to go back to the lake. The convenience of lake life is further emphasized by the accessibility of the water. Most places on Norris Lake allow residents to walk down to their docks, making it easy to enjoy the water without having to travel far. This ease of access is a significant advantage for those who love water activities and want to spend as much time on the lake as possible. Fess mentions that the lake is controlled by the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), which uses it for hydroelectricity. This control ensures that the lake's water levels are regulated, providing a stable and enjoyable experience for boaters and residents. Additionally, Norris Lake is known for its clear waters, thanks to the Powell River and Clinch River that feed into it. This clarity adds to the beauty and allure of the lake. Lake activities are relaxing and fun Trasee and Fess mention that they are pleasure boating enthusiasts. They enjoy cruising around the lake, stopping to relax and have a good time. When they have guests or visitors, they bring out rafts, tubes, and skis for more adventurous water activities. Lake activities can cater to both those seeking relaxation and those looking for more excitement. Chad and Molley also enjoy floating on a giant mat or lily pad. They describe how it can be a fun activity for both adults and children. Trasee and Fess mention that when adults are on the mat, it turns into a floating bar, with everyone enjoying their drinks and conversation. This highlights the social aspect of lake activities and how they can bring people together for a good time. Trasee and Fess also mention their favorite spot on the lake called the Big Water, which offers beautiful scenery and a chance to swim and relax. They enjoy exploring different parts of the lake and taking in its size and beauty. They appreciate the fact that Norris Lake has remote areas where they can escape from the hustle and bustle of everyday life and enjoy the peace and tranquility of nature. Advice to New Boaters on Norris Lake One of the main advantages of boating on Norris Lake is the ease of access. Unlike other bodies of water, such as the Ohio River, Norris Lake does not have a strong current, making it much easier to navigate in and out of with a boat on a trailer. This is particularly beneficial for new boaters who may not have as much experience maneuvering their boat. The absence of a current also means that there are no difficult angles to navigate when getting the boat onto the trailer. Additionally, the lake offers a peaceful and serene environment for boating. While weekends can be busy with other boaters, it is still possible to find coves and hideaways to escape the crowds and enjoy some solitude.  It's great to go out early in the morning to avoid the rush and enjoy the calmness of the lake. They love sitting out and watching the sunset, highlighting the beauty and tranquility of Norris Lake. For new boaters, Trasee and Fess suggest avoiding going out on a holiday weekend for the first time, as these times can be particularly crowded and overwhelming. Instead, they recommend choosing a quieter time to get familiar with the lake and its navigation. It is also important to scope out the area ahead of time and know where the rental and dock are located. This can help prevent any confusion or getting lost on the water. In terms of the lake itself, Norris Lake offers a unique experience compared to other lakes in Kentucky. Trasee and Fess have visited other lakes such as Lake Cumberland and Dale Hollow and Taylorsville Lake.  They prefer for Norris Lake due to its distinct features. Norris Lake has many fingers and coves, providing opportunities for exploration and discovering hidden spots. In contrast, Dale Hollow is described as a big bowl with islands, lacking the same level of diversity in its landscape. Chad always brings up a story about Molley at Dale Hollow. After a long day of enjoying the lake, she described the water as feeling thicker, possibly due to the minerals present in it. This unique characteristic sparked a debate about whether to speed up or slow down the boat, showcasing the interesting conversations and experiences that can arise from boating. If You Could Buy Any Boat, What Would You Buy? Chad asks them about their dream boats.  Trasee immediately says, a Sea Ray 270 SLX.  Fess loves the Sea Ray 34 Sundancer.  He thinks it a great cruiser option for the lake. Fess talks about Froggie's Patio Bar and Stardust Marina on Lake Norris.  The group talks about how people are accessorizing their slips in very creative ways.  It may not be the most relaxing, but it's another great aspect of the Lake Life. Boating Creates Lasting Family Memories Trasee talks about their experiences boating with their son, Layne, and how it has brought them closer together as a family. They mention that when their son was younger, he would always go out boating with them, bringing along his friends as well. They recall one particular memory of having a group of friends out on the boat, with one of the younger brothers refusing to get off the tube. This memory highlights the fun and excitement that boating can bring to a family, creating moments that are cherished for years to come. There's also the freedom and relaxation that boating provides. Boating allows you to escape from your daily routines and enjoy the peace and tranquility of being out on the water. They talk about how boating has become a way for them to reconnect as a family, especially now that they have a place at Norris Lake. Having a place to stay at the lake makes it easier for them to get away and spend quality time together. They express their excitement at the prospect of their son joining them more often now that they have a place at the lake. Lake Norris is also known for having some great food at the marina restaurants.  Most of the marinas offer some form of local entertainment.  Trasee talks about why Shanghai Marina is one of her favorites.  There's a wide variety of food and settings.  Community and Friendship at the Lake There's a sense of community and friendship that can be found at the lake. Boating allows you to meet new people and form lifelong friendships. The boating community is always willing to help each other out and offer advice. They also talk about how boating has provided them with opportunities to have conversations and create memories that they may not have had otherwise. Memorable Lake Adventures and Laughter Trasee recalls a summer where they realized they weren't using their boat as much as they would like. They reflect on the time and effort it takes to prepare the boat for each outing, but ultimately decide that the memories and experiences they have on the lake make it all worth it. They discuss the tough decisions they have to make, but ultimately conclude that the sense of community and friendship they have found at the lake is invaluable. Greatest Lake Life Memory Molley asks them to share a key memory involving Lake Life. Fess shares a memorable experience of being at the lake with friends. They recall a Labor Day weekend where they witnessed a friend sitting in a motorized tube, surrounded by the NFL cheerleaders from Cincinnati. The image of this friend, with a hat on, cigar in hand, and reading a book, is a source of laughter and amusement for the hosts. They remember this moment and it has become a story they share whenever they get together. Trasee shares the memory of their son learning to ski for the first time. This moment is etched in their memory and brings a sense of pride and joy. She also recalls jumping off a bridge at Norris Lake, an activity that is common at many lakes. Despite hurting herself in the process, the adventure and laughter that accompanied these experiences was worth it. Molley and Chad describe a time when Chad decided to jump off a high spot, when he thought Molley was cheering him on.  Turns out she was trying to tell him she was out of film.  Chad had to jump again! Chad also discuss the fun and excitement of tubing at the lake. They share stories of tubing with friends and the determination they all had to hold on and not let go. They recall the sheer joy and laughter that comes from being on a tube, even if it means getting whipped around and potentially hurting themselves. Fess talks about the time their nieces and the fun they have had with them on the lake. They mention how hilarious it was when the girls confidently claimed that no one could knock them off.  But, they had to stop so the girls could fix their hair. Defining Which Job Each Person Has Fess mentions how they used to trailer their boat until they bought a condo with a slip and lift. They describe this as a game changer, emphasizing the convenience and ease it brings to their boating experience. The conversation then turns to the roles each person plays in their boating adventures. They mention how one person handles the truck while the other handles the trailer. They share stories of their partners' impressive skills in maneuvering the boat and trailer, creating a sense of admiration and camaraderie. This highlights the sense of community and friendship that can be found at Norris Lake, as people come together to share their love for boating. Closing Words Trasee and Fess invite everyone they can to come and enjoy the lake with them. This highlights the inclusive and welcoming nature of Norris Lake, where people can come together and create lasting memories.  We're looking forward to creating even more memories and laughter in the upcoming summer and cherish the moments they have already experienced at the lake. EPISODE SPONSOR INFORMATION: We'd like to thank today's sponsor and encourage you to contact them for your Lake Cumberland real estate needs. Walker Realty Website: https://walker-realty.com/ Phone Number:  (270) 384-3661 That's a wrap for this episode.  We'd like to thank our friends Trasee and Fess for guest hosting with us.  We hope you found it helpful, insightful and maybe a little entertaining.  Thanks for Listening! If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider sharing it with your social media friends.  We hope to see you out there soon.  Until next time, here's to warm weather and calm waters! Don't forget to subscribe!  

V75 tips Åby 1/4. Våra tipsexperter Albin Kjellberg och "Referenten" (Albin Engdahl) bjuder på sina bästa travtips till V75 Åby 1 april. Per Nordström, som bl.a tränar Kentucky River är med och berättar om sina chanser på V75 samt om läget med superstjärnan Önas Prince. Prenumerera på kanalen genom att klicka här och slå på notiser så missar du aldrig nya avsnitt. https://bit.ly/3cxSlFc Vår Facebookgrupp: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Travcash/ Här är våra senaste skrivna V75-tips: https://travcash.se/v75-tips/ Köp en andel: https://travcash.se/andelsspel

January 25, 1977. Lexington, Kentucky. 24-year old Melanie Flynn leaves her workplace, but fails to show up for an appointment and does not return home for dinner with her family. Two weeks later, Melanie's abandoned car is discovered in an apartment complex parking lot and her purse is found washed up next to the Kentucky River later that summer. After numerous eyewitnesses claim to have seen Melanie alive in Florida, the police close the investigation, but her family is convinced she was murdered. Over the years, rumours circulate that Melanie worked as an undercover informant for the narcotics squad and was killed by corrupt police officers who were involved in drug trafficking. The story eventually balloons into a mammoth scandal known as the “Bluegrass Conspiracy”, but no trace of Melanie is ever found. This week's episode of “The Path Went Chilly” explores a convoluted missing persons case which may have been connected to a multi-million-dollar drug smuggling ring & The tie in tragedy that is Cocaine Bear. Patreon.com/julesandashleyPatreon.com/thetrailwentcoldAdditional Reading:http://charleyproject.org/case/melanie-dee-flynn“The Bluegrass Conspiracy: An Inside Story of Power, Greed, Drugs and Murder” by Sally Dentonhttps://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article232423297.htmlhttps://www.newspapers.com/image/101002756/https://www.newspapers.com/image/110786699/https://www.newspapers.com/image/110800054/

January 25, 1977. Lexington, Kentucky. 24-year old Melanie Flynn leaves her workplace, but fails to show up for an appointment and does not return home for dinner with her family. Two weeks later, Melanie's abandoned car is discovered in an apartment complex parking lot and her purse is found washed up next to the Kentucky River later that summer. After numerous eyewitnesses claim to have seen Melanie alive in Florida, the police close the investigation, but her family is convinced she was murdered. Over the years, rumours circulate that Melanie worked as an undercover informant for the narcotics squad and was killed by corrupt police officers who were involved in drug trafficking. The story eventually balloons into a mammoth scandal known as the “Bluegrass Conspiracy”, but no trace of Melanie is ever found. This week's episode of “The Path Went Chilly” explores a convoluted missing persons case which may have been connected to a multi-million-dollar drug smuggling ring & The tie in tragedy that is Cocaine Bear. Patreon.com/julesandashleyPatreon.com/thetrailwentcoldAdditional Reading:http://charleyproject.org/case/melanie-dee-flynn“The Bluegrass Conspiracy: An Inside Story of Power, Greed, Drugs and Murder” by Sally Dentonhttps://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article232423297.htmlhttps://www.newspapers.com/image/101002756/https://www.newspapers.com/image/110786699/https://www.newspapers.com/image/110800054/

January 25, 1977. Lexington, Kentucky. 24-year old Melanie Flynn leaves her workplace, but fails to show up for an appointment and does not return home for dinner with her family. Two weeks later, Melanie's abandoned car is discovered in an apartment complex parking lot and her purse is found washed up next to the Kentucky River later that summer. After numerous eyewitnesses claim to have seen Melanie alive in Florida, the police close the investigation, but her family is convinced she was murdered. Over the years, rumours circulate that Melanie worked as an undercover informant for the narcotics squad and was killed by corrupt police officers who were involved in drug trafficking. The story eventually balloons into a mammoth scandal known as the “Bluegrass Conspiracy”, but no trace of Melanie is ever found. This week's episode of “The Path Went Chilly” explores a convoluted missing persons case which may have been connected to a multi-million-dollar drug smuggling ring & the side story of the tie in case of Cocaine Bear.Patreon.com/julesandashleyPatreon.com/thetrailwentcoldAdditional Reading:http://charleyproject.org/case/melanie-dee-flynn“The Bluegrass Conspiracy: An Inside Story of Power, Greed, Drugs and Murder” by Sally Dentonhttps://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article232423297.htmlhttps://www.newspapers.com/image/101002756/https://www.newspapers.com/image/110786699/https://www.newspapers.com/image/110800054/

Outdoors, Brews, & BBQ E13 a look at Mammoth Cave with some Kentucky Beers and a good BourbonOutdoors What are the basic tools needed Navigational Tools, GPS, Physical map of the Terrain, Compas, water if not lifestraw, good outdoor shoes made for the terrain, a good knife, Fire starter, paracord rope, Mammoth cave National ParkMammoth Cave National Park is a U.S. national park in central Kentucky, encompassing portions of Mammoth Cave, the longest cave system known in the world. Since the 1972 unification of Mammoth Cave with the even-longer system under Flint Ridge to the north, the official name of the system has been the Mammoth-Flint Ridge Cave System. The park was established as a national park on July 1, 1941.KENTUCKY®BLUEBERRY BARREL WHEAT 8% ABV 4Kentucky Blueberry Barrel Wheat is an American Wheat Ale style with light malty notes and a sweet blueberry fruity taste that is well-balanced with a hint of tartness and a crisp citrus finish.KENTUCKY®BOURBON BARREL ALE 8.2% ABV 5Our Kentucky Ale is aged in freshly decanted bourbon barrels from some of Kentucky's finest distilleries. Subtle yet familiar flavors of vanilla and oak are imparted to this special ale as it rests in the charred barrels. After aging for at least six weeks, the beer has grown to become the flagship beer of the premier name in barrel-aged beers: Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale. Pleasantly smooth and robust, it may also be served as an aperitif or after-dinner drink.KENTUCKY®PUMPKIN BARREL ALE 10% ABV 4.75A barrel-aged ale brewed with Kentucky-sourced pumpkin, richly spiced with cinnamon, nutmeg and allspice. This robust, limited-release seasonal brew makes for a flavorful sipping beer to slowly warm up with as the weather cools.BUFFALO TRACE 45% ABV KENTUCKY STRAIGHT BOURBON WHISKEYAncient buffalo carved paths through the wilderness that led American pioneers and explorers to new frontiers. One such trail led to the banks of the Kentucky River where Buffalo Trace Distillery has been making bourbon whiskey the same way for more than 200 years. In tribute to the mighty buffalo and the rugged, independent spirit of the pioneers who followed them, we created our signature Buffalo Trace Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey.TASTING NOTESThis deep amber whiskey has a complex aroma of vanilla, mint and molasses. Pleasantly sweet to the taste with notes of brown sugar and spice that give way to oak, toffee, dark fruit and anise. This whiskey finishes long and smooth with serious depth.BBQ Brisket recipe at 200F about 8-10 hours 

On the table is a new barrel-proof bourbon from Larceny, their B521 offering. We're going to try this wheated bourbon made by Heaven Hill which is named after John E. Fitzgerald, who as legend tells it, built his own distillery along the banks of the Kentucky River and was sold to exclusive customers. Later on, Stizel-Weller is said to have named one of their premium offerings Old Fitzgerald in honor of him. Fitzgerald had a colorful history within the whiskey trade, especially since he was a bonded agent for the government. Did we find this juice as smooth as some of the barrels named after him, "Fitzgerald Barrels." Eventually, he sold out to Pappy Van Winkle, and the rest is history, or is it just more bourbon lore? Learn more about Larceny Distillery online at - https://larcenybourbon.com/the-distillery Catch us on the web at - http://thewhiskyfriends.com/ Music by Adam Whitehead - https://www.facebook.com/adamwhiteheadmusic Email us at - thewhiskeyfriends@gmail.com

Sam is a prenatal yoga teacher, doula, and mother of two boys, presently residing on the Kentucky River. Sam's birth taught her that, to truly be free, to know and to trust herself, is to know how to manage her energetic state and create the energy that she wanted within herself and project that out […]

“To watch over mouth and tongue is to keep out of trouble.” Proverbs 21:23. This week we reflect on how we talk about God, our neighbor, and ourselves. http://www.patreon.com/thecatholicmanshow (Become a Patron! Over 40 interviews, a course with Karlo Broussard, a 10 part series on the domestic church, a course on fitness and virtue by Pat Flynn, and free thank you gifts for supporting the show!) https://selectinternationaltours.com/catholicmanshow/ () WE ARE PLANNING A TRIP TO IRELAND FOR 2022! WANT TO GO WITH US? WE ARE FINALIZING THE DETAILS. TO STAY UP-TO-DATE,  https://selectinternationaltours.com/catholicmanshow/ (Click here) About our drink: Buffalo Trace Single Barrel Ancient buffalo carved paths through the wilderness that led American pioneers and explorers to new frontiers. One such trail led to the banks of the Kentucky River where Buffalo Trace Distillery has been making bourbon whiskey the same way for more than 200 years. In tribute to the mighty buffalo and the rugged, independent spirit of the pioneers who followed them, we created our signature Buffalo Trace Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. About our gear: More of an action than a gear this week. We need to be talking about the positive things that happen in your prayer life to your children. About the Topic: We talk about the 9 choirs of angels, why they are important and what each choir's job is, and how beautiful it is that God uses all of His creation to carry out His will. [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_wvTdq4PgE] This episode is sponsored by: https://christcenteredcapital.com/ (CHRIST CENTERED CAPITAL) We point out what companies, organizations and charities are aligned with Christian Values, and which are not, so you can make morally informed decisions on what to do with your capital. https://christcenteredcapital.com/ (Use promo code TCMS2022 for a 1 month free subscription. ) https://christcenteredcapital.com/ () http://exodus90.com/?utm_source=catholicmanshow&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=exodus90-2022&utm_content=catholicmanshow-email-1 (Exodus90) has started but Exodus Lent is just around the corner! March 2nd is Ash Wednesday, and over a billion people will start living different in some way. Maybe giving up chocolate or alcohol, or whatever. For a lot of Catholics, Lent is a time of finding the easiest way to “give something up”. But, at the end of those 40 days, did that sacrifice really make a difference? This year, there's a new opportunity out there specifically for men that will actually help you grow closer to God and become a better man. You've heard me talk about Exodus 90 — but let me tell you about Exodus Lent: a 40-day journey that will challenge you to dig a little deeper this year. If your first reaction is: “I'm absolutely not taking cold showers” well you're in luck: men who take on the Exodus Lent get to take warm showers, drink alcohol, and — when you're with others — watch TV and sports. But don't be fooled, this will still be a challenging 40 days of preparation for living the Christian life, for the rest of your life. Here's how it works: First — Over the 40 days of Lent, men commit to daily prayer, setting aside a minimum of 20 minutes to spend with the Lord. Each day includes a scripture reading and reflection written to help men better understand, grow in, and live virtue. Second — More than just giving up chocolate, men take up a range of disciplines and sacrifices for the season of Lent. Sweets, snacks, social media, are all gone. Third — Men commit to a fraternity of 5-7 men. Each week, the fraternity meets to pray together, check in, hold each other accountable and encourage one another. On Easter Sunday, you'll walk away with a new and lasting understanding of what it means to live the full Christian life. Chocolate bunnies and all. Sign up now at http://exodus90.com/...

For this episode of the podcast we are traveling to the Northern Kentucky area known as the River Region. It's located along the Ohio River just outside of Cincinnati. 13 counties actually touch the Ohio River. My interview is with Lacey Holleran, director of tourism for the City of Maysville. She explains that this area is teeming with life from big city fun to small town charm. To get started planning your Kentucky adventure go to KentuckyTourism.com

In this weeks episode Susan interviews Karen Adkins of Kentucky River Foothills who's mission is to improve its communities by assisting low-income families and individuals to achieve self-sufficiency by providing direct services and working with partnering organizations to develop additional resources to reduce poverty and create opportunities for those in need. They have over 40 programs to help people become self sufficient and have many opportunities for volunteering. Check them out at https://foothillscap.org

Frankfort is the capital city of the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the seat of Franklin County. It is a home rule-class city, with a population over 25,000 people, and located along the Kentucky River. Its home to the Center for Kentucky History Museum, With so many exhibits, spread across three buildings, the Center for Kentucky History does its best to show that Kentucky history is more than racehorses, bourbon, fried chicken, and the skull of Daniel Boone.[FOLLOW ON SOCIAL MEDIA & MORE]TWITTER: www.twitter.com/SouthernOddPodINSTAGRAM: www.instagram.com/SouthernOddPodJARED'S TWITTER: www.twitter.com/jared_ordisJARED'S INSTAGRAM: www.instagram.com/jared.ordis[ADDITONAL INFORMATION]Questions or Business Inquiry, Email Us @ ordisstudios@gmail.comResearched was used for this episode of Southern Oddities, and we couldn't have made it possible without the journalism and dedication from these awesome sources of information: Roadside America [Story 64557] Roadside America [Story 2507] Wikipedia [Frankfort, Kentucky] Wikipedia [Kentucky Historical Society]"Southern Oddities" is created & produced by Jared Ordis, an Ordis Studios production. This show is part of the Ordis Studios Network Copyright © 2021 by Ordis Studioswww.ordisstudios.com

Today's Buffalo Trace Distillery started out 164 years ago when Daniel Swigert started making whiskey on the banks of the Kentucky River. His distillery didn't really have a name back then, and the site's had many names over the years as part of its history...one that includes legendary names like Taylor, Stagg, Blanton, and Lee. F. Paul Pacult's latest book, "Buffalo, Barrels, & Bourbon" dives deeply into that history, and he joins us on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth. In the news, tariff talks between the U.S. and the European Union are coming down to the deadline again, and that has Bourbon makers nervous. Distillers in Ireland are proposing to update the legal standards for Irish Whiskey, and the world's oldest whisky goes on the auction block. 

Joey from Friends did a movie between the first and second seasons and it bombed. 00:00 Intro: Song: Lobby Time from Incomptech.com. 00:08 Brendan gets a new cellular telephone and is way too excited about something that everyone else already has in their pockets. #adulting. Do you pay too much for mobile data? Canada is one of the countries with the highest prices for mobile data in the whole entire world. 03:10 Brendan introduces his new drink: Sangria la-ti-da. 04:09 Alex has an idea. Please congratulate him at refined90scinema@gmail.com. We discuss our upcoming reunion and how we will fall back in-love once we can record in the same room. 04:23 Introducing (Alex's new segment) Dirty Laundry. Do you put on a new pair of socks everyday? If not, you should, because your feet will stink badly. Change your underwear and your socks daily. Multiple times a day if you sweat. Send us your sock recommendations. 07:35 We fail to properly parody Brokeback Mountain and then we learn some fascinating facts about the famous Kentucky River and its importance as a source of drinking water for its surrounding areas. 09:26 Back to our Drinks of the Week. Alex takes a trip to the liquor store and insults a customer service representative whilst realizing that he is creepy and old since he turned 30 years old. People be thinkin' you creepin'. 11:12 The movie for this week is finally revealed. It's 1996's Ed starring Matt Leblanc.**_ _**The recent Friend's HBO Reunion and Matt Leblanc is revealed as being a horrible actor without Friends. 12:07 Ed (1996) was a commercial flop and failure. We discuss our opinions as to why? Was it promoted properly? Did it get bumpers and commercials before and after Friends? Is Friends actually funny? How many times can I say Friends? It has a zero on Rotten Tomatoes. 16:16 After many trials and salutations we start the movie. It begins with M. Night Leblanc playing baseball with a horrible green screen behind him. He gets to milk a cow because he is uneducated? His mother looks like Chris Farley in a wig. Matt meets his arch enemy and we see the wife from Jingle All the Way. Just kidding, it's actually Jayne Brook from Kindergarten Cop. 21:15 Kirby Woods unveils his plan to get the team back into fighting form. A classic tale of Tribiani's. They changed his hair. Is it a hair piece? The plan involved a monkey. We meet the eponymous monkey named Ed. Looks like a toupee. The monkey is a great baseball player! 25:56 Matt Leblanc needs to prove himself in order to stay on the team. So he pitches in front of the team. Naturally, this leads him to be chosen as the monkey's new roommate. Ed gets high from eating a flower and then uses some air freshener. The next morning, Matt has an even darker fake tan and he practices pitching, even though Ed is way better than him. Then we see a refined favourite, Kevin Kopelow. Turns out, it's not Chubbs, it's another guy. 32:45 One-note character, Jack 'Coop' Tribiani is doing monkey business #TCOMB. Now, inevitably, Jack 'Coop' and Ed are becoming friends. They do some pitching and catching with varying degrees of success. They finally put Ed Sullivan (Monkey) on the field. 38:37 Ed hits the field and becomes immediately famous. We figure out who actually played Ed in the costume in the movie. Who gets cut during Cut Day? It doesn't matter, because it's not Ed and It's not Jack. They continue bonding and Ed drives a drunk Coop home. They also share a toilet. We then compare Friends and Ed. Marcel vs. Ed is a definite contender for a sequel. 44:55 We digress into pausing the movie for wine and making Refined 90's history by deciding if we will even bother finishing this awful movie. Do you YEET? We at least know how to conjugate the verb. How do you do your laundry? Now back to this ridiculous movie… 49:29 Part 2. Back to the movie. Jack and the little girl's mom go on a date. He's all shoulders and back. Ed babysits and they make a huge mess. But, we think the couple gets it on. Then we go back to the field where a group of businessmen are scheming about how they can screw over Ed and take all his money. Chocolate banana anyone? 54:34 They steal Ed with 25 minutes to go. Jack's new girlfriend is very unhappy with him. The hallway they are in looks like it's from the K&P Slap-Ass Sketch and Ed was traded in secret according to the team owner. 01:04:11 The Championship Game. They won the game. Alex wants a Nutty Nanner because the ending is worse than in The Cube. We then Whose Line the credits. Since the movie is useless. 01:09:26 Budget breakdown for the film to try to figure out how much of a colossal failure it truly was. And we're done. That's it. Why did we even watch this movie? So, shut up. The End. Nostalgia Unscripted. Refined 90's Cinema is two friends reviewing movies from the 1990s. Find us at https://refined90scinema.com. YouTube Channel: http://refined90scinema.live. Questions? Comments? Send us a line at refined90scinema@gmail.com. Theme song: Lobby Time by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3986-lobby-time License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Hello Interactors,Welcome to the third in a series on the role surveying and cartography played in the establishment of the United States. Today we continue further west into Ohio in the lead up to the 1800s. The U.S. government needed money to fulfill their dreams of being a global superpower. And it all hinged on Jefferson’s plan to extract money from neatly surveyed squares of land occupied by sovereign Indigenous nations who had been here for thousands of years. They were not going to give easily and they never will.As interactors, you’re special individuals self-selected to be a part of an evolutionary journey. You’re also members of an attentive community so I welcome your participation.Please leave your comments below or email me directly.Now let’s go…THE SEVEN RANGES RAGE ON“Regulating the grants of land appropriated for Military Services, and for the Society of the Brethren, for propagating the Gospel among the Heathen.”This is the title of the Land Act of 1796. It was enacted on June 1 of that year, nearly a decade after the United States’ chief Geographer, surveyor, and mapmaker, Thomas Hutchins, had died after surveying the Seven Ranges just west of the Ohio River. The gridding and partitioning of land further west into Ohio continued to progress. The decade leading up to the Land Act was filled with increased Indigenous resistance, botched surveys by scandalous land speculators, and an eager and anxious government who needed money for their military and land from the ‘heathens’. The Seven Ranges did not produce the kind of revenue Congress had anticipated. It was risky business for individual settlers to forge into territories of unhappy native occupants who had no allegiance to Thomas Jefferson’s cartesian adherence. The government was offering land to colonizers for cheap, at one dollar per acre, but you risked your life squatting on land unprotected from Indigenous land and water protectors. So many colonizers just waited for land speculators to buy the land so they could buy it at a discounted price – plus interest. Settlers also had to pay for the survey that proved to the government and their neighbors that it was ‘their’ land. This meant the surveys mapping their plats and townships were sloppily produced or not made at all. Sometimes land companies would provide squatters security and protection from violence they may encounter. But it was rare. Tribal nations in this area were accustom to dealing with invaders. They had a history of negotiating with both the English and the French prior to the Revolutionary War. The French needed Indigenous allies given they were outnumbered by the British colonizers. At the beginning of the French and Indian War, in 1754, there were nearly two million in the British colonies and only 60,000 among the French colonies. The Indigenous nations would sometimes pit the English and French against each other in hopes of securing and maintaining land for themselves. After the Revolutionary War, there was a third country vying for Indigenous land, the United States. The fight for land with this nation by Indigenous nations continues to this day. You can read more about the Land Back movement and it’s importance to future healthy interactions of people and place here.A FOOLING OF HARD KNOXRecall from a previous post that it was the end of the French and Indian War, in 1763, that Thomas Hutchins was working for the British army. He was surveying and securing land along the Ohio River for the British and allied Indigenous nations. Twenty one years later, in 1781, Hutchins became the chief Geographer for the United States helping Jefferson with the details of the Land Ordinance of 1784. The original plan for the dicing up of American land. And now, after platting the Seven Ranges and Hutchins’ passing in 1789, the Ohio surveying experiment had been overrun by land speculators, squatting settlers, and angered Native nations. But these fierce, proud, intelligent Indigenous nations were once again ready to negotiate alliances with the global super-powers. Including upstarts like the United States.By this time political and military negotiations were led by a White Mohawk leader, Joseph Brant. Brant was born in Ohio to parents that had been raised with the Iroquois in the New York area. He grew up in a multi-cultural world among settling French, Irish, German, English, and his Mohawk people. He was able to speak all the dialects of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy and was educated in 1761 at what was to become Dartmouth College. He rose into leadership positions both within his Mohawk tribe and the British Army and was feared by the United States due to his ability to negotiate with the British and the French. He was also a skilled warrior unafraid to fight for the rights of the people he and his parents grew up with. A fight that had already begun. The Northwest American War, also known as the Ohio War, began the year Hutchins’ set out to survey the Seven Ranges in 1785.The allied Indigenous nations were about to do battle with Washington’s newly appointed Secretary of War, Henry Knox. The United States had secured their own Indigenous allies from the south, the Chickasaw and Choctaw. But the United States military was outnumbered. Knox had to recruit Kentucky squatters who were untrained but motivated by the prospect of land and bounty from the brown scalps of Indigenous men, women, and children. The United States was also poor. Proceeds from the land Hutchins had surveyed west of the Ohio River were barely trickling in. But Knox was determined, telling his Commander stationed at a fort in what is now Cincinnati, “…extending a defensive and efficient protection to so extensive a frontier, against solitary, or small parties of enterprising savages, seems altogether impossible. No other remedy remains, but to extirpate, utterly, if possible, the said Banditti (bandits).”The Miamis and Shawnees were able to fool Knox’s first attempts to destroy their villages. They would desert their grounds and then ambush the troops after watching them set fire to their homes. Defeated, Knox went on to recruit 500 more from Kentucky and issued stronger demands to his commanders. They destroyed the Miami’s largest villages and took 40 women and children hostage. They then sent word to villages up the Wabash river to surrender or risk being exterminated. Knox wrote,“Your warriors will be slaughtered, your towns and villages ransacked and destroyed, your wives and children carried into captivity, and you may be assured that those who escape the fury of our mighty chiefs shall find no resting place on this side of the great lakes.”ENTER “MAD ANTHONY” Back in New York, Secretary of Treasury, Alexander Hamilton needed a plan. The country continued to bleed money and he needed more land in Ohio to be surveyed and gridded into a ledger so he could balance the governments finances. On July 20, 1790 he established the General Land Office which included the position of Surveyor General.  Hamilton determined 100 acres and upward were to be sold to land companies for 30 cents per acre. The land could be paid for in gold, silver, or public securities – many of which were war credits earned during the revolutionary war. Land could also be sold with a two year credit plus six percent interest. Townships were 10 miles square and the surveys had to be paid for by the land companies or their land-seeking colonial settlers.This was attractive to would-be land owners, many of whom migrated from Europe where they had no hope of ever owning a piece of property. This was a dream come true, if not for the nightmare of violence occurring throughout Ohio. George Washington was recruiting, and Indigenous warriors were killing, mercenaries from Kentucky and Tennessee at a rate of four for every one trained U.S. soldier. But he knew this was the price you pay to become a global power like England, France, or Spain. He knew he needed their land to raise the money necessary to build a stronger army, but no matter the size of troops he was sending in to battle, they were losing terribly. The Indigenous people of Ohio were not going to give in. They never have and they never will.Washington needed a new approach. He pulled Major General “Mad Anthony” Wayne out of retirement in Georgia to lead the “Legion of the United States”. This was the first army organized under the direction of the Congress and Executive branches after the adoption of the Constitution. It demonstrates both a shift in attitude from the state and from George Washington who needed victories over his enemies and their land. “Mad Anthony” was known, even by Washington, to be unreliable making him an odd choice for leading a newly formalized federal army. But he earned that nickname for a reason. He developed a reputation in the Revolutionary War for being temperamental and ruthless. And he was an alcoholic. Washington probably knew he needed a military leader like this to exert monstrous acts of violence on innocent children and women and men of all ages.Wayne and his troops made their way to the northwest corner of Ohio to Fort Defiance in the middle of allied Indigenous nations. He sent word to the Shawnee, “In pity to your innocent women and children, come and prevent the further effusion of your blood.”The Shawnee refused to back down. So on a rainy August 20th, 1794, Wayne ordered his men to destroy their crops, fields, and homes. They proceeded to murder innocent women, children, and old men. After just one hour of “Mad Anthony”, the Shawnee were overwhelmed and were forced to accept defeat. The U.S. soldiers continued destroying crops and homes for three days and fifty miles in their retreat to Fort Defiance. Known as the Battle of Fallen Timbers, this led to the signing of the Treaty of Greenville and it set the tone for the United States’ ‘shock and awe’ approach to military force over sovereign nations – and the displacement and murder of innocent Indigenous people here and abroad. It was enough to earn Wayne his own fort in what is now known at Fort Wayne, Indiana.FEASTING ON A BUNCH-OF-GRAPESThe Greenville Treaty opened up ¾ of the what was to become the state of Ohio to white colonial settlers. Hamilton’s newly formed General Land Office and the Surveyor General could now continue the carving up of land into neatly ordered squares. Two years later, the Land Act of 1796 was passed. It was time to divvy up the land for “military purposes” and “for propagating the Gospel among the Heathen.”Jefferson’s Land Ordinance called for land to be set aside for veterans of the Revolutionary War. This chunk of curvilinear land in Ohio was called the U.S. Military Reserve. The Land Act also designated land for the “Society of the United Brethren”, also known as the Moravian Church. These are the protestant missionaries I mentioned last week. A band of Moravians had taken in members of a Lenape tribe and moved west to Ohio to escape the warring tensions in the original 13 colonies only to be innocently murdered by a group of U.S. minutemen from Philadelphia dispatched by George Washington.More Moravians had settled in Ohio along the Muskingum River in the middle of the Military Reserve designated in the Land Act. They had converted more Indigenous people to Christianity after the brutal defeat in the Battle of Fallen Timbers. The U.S. Government wanted to encourage more conversions, so they granted them land. The Land Act also put into writing very precise methods of surveying, slicing, plotting, and platting by an empowered Survey General. The U.S. Government could no longer rely on land companies and eager, greedy speculators to conduct shoddy surveys. Section 1 of the Act reads as follows (comments and translations provided by C. Albert White):“Sec. 1. A Surveyor General shall be appointed. He shall engage skillful surveyors as his deputies. He shall survey the lands northwest of the Ohio River and above the mouth of the Kentucky River (in Kentucky) in which Indian title has been extinguished (Greenville Treaty). He shall frame regulations and instructions for his deputies and they shall take an oath (to do proper work) and he may remove (fire) them for negligence or misconduct.”America’s first Survey General was none only than Rufus Putnam, one of the co-founders of the Ohio Company of Associates. He was the one I mentioned last week who gathered with his friends at the Bunch-of-Grapes tavern in Boston ten years earlier in 1786 – just one year after Jefferson negotiated the Land Ordinance of 1785. They drafted a plan for how to profit from the settlement in the Ohio territories, sent it to their friends in Congress to enact, and here Putnam was in charge of surveying and platting land ceded by force so that he, his buddies, and the United States could profit. Clear evidence of just how intertwined crony capitalism, cartesian cartography, Christianity, and White supremacy are rooted in the American government and military.Jefferson’s dream was finally coming true. The U.S. government was just hitting its stride. They now had an organized and methodical means of measuring and dissecting land for sale to citizens seeking land settlement and companies seeking financial settlement. All so the United States could amass a larger military as they headed west into the sunset, charting meridians on a map as they marched toward global domination. Subscribe at interplace.io

12.28.20 Monday - Kentucky River by Think Humanities

This was it. Two and a half years after Alex Johnson's body was pulled from the bottom of the Kentucky River, Mark Taylor faced a jury at his murder trial. For seven agonizing days, the panel of jurors and a packed courtroom, listened to all the twisted details of the case. They even saw the muddy barrel that served as Alex's makeshift coffin, rolled into the courtroom. Who would they believe? Prosecutors? Or Mark Taylor?

January 25, 1977. Lexington, Kentucky. 24-year old Melanie Flynn leaves her workplace, but fails to show up for an appointment and does not return home for dinner with her family. Two weeks later, Melanie's abandoned car is discovered in an apartment complex parking lot and her purse is found washed up next to the Kentucky River later that summer. After numerous eyewitnesses claim to have seen Melanie alive in Florida, the police close the investigation, but her family is convinced she was murdered. Over the years, rumours circulate that Melanie worked as an undercover informant for the narcotics squad and was killed by corrupt police officers who were involved in drug trafficking. The story eventually balloons into a mammoth scandal known as the “Bluegrass Conspiracy”, but no trace of Melanie is ever found. This week's episode of “The Trail Went Cold” explores a convoluted missing persons case which may have been connected to a multi-million-dollar drug smuggling ring. This episode of The Trail Went Cold is brought to you by Best Fiends, a unique and exciting puzzle experience unlike other puzzle games out there. Download Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That's FRIENDS without the R, Best Fiends! Additional Reading: http://charleyproject.org/case/melanie-dee-flynn “The Bluegrass Conspiracy: An Inside Story of Power, Greed, Drugs and Murder” by Sally Denton https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article232423297.html https://www.newspapers.com/image/101002756/ https://www.newspapers.com/image/110786699/ https://www.newspapers.com/image/110800054/ “The Trail Went Cold” is on Patreon! Visit www.patreon.com/thetrailwentcold to become a patron and gain access to our exclusive bonus content. “The Trail Went Cold” is now doing a weekly livestream show on GetVokl every Thursday from 7:00-8:00 PM ET as part of their “True Crime Thursday” line-up. For more information, please visit their website. The Trail Went Cold is produced and edited by Magill Foote. All music is composed by Vince Nitro.

Shownotes Wedbeters Podcast – aflevering 64 Derbyfavorieten vertellen over hun kansen Woensdag 7 oktober 2020 Inleiding Deze week zijn alle ogen gericht op de Nederlandse Derby K, die zondag op Duindigt wordt verreden. We praten met maar liefst drie betrokkenen, Rick Ebbinge, Robin Bakker en Martijn de Haan. Zij hebben gezamenlijk - op papier - de favorieten in de koers. Verder kijken we vooruit naar het Svensk Masterskap in Aby en de meeting in Wolvega. We kijken terug op het afgelopen weekend met natuurlijk de Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe op Longchamp, de 4,5 kilometer meeting in Alkmaar en de Grosser Preis von Deutschland. Vanzelfsprekend hebben we ook het nieuws in 5 minuten en de klappers van de week. 00:01 Inleiding: De verwachte uitkomst van de 4,5 kilometer van Alkmaar, Enable slaagt er niet in haar 3e Arc te winnen en favorieten doen hun plicht in Breeders Crown J. 09:32 Nieuws: Pierre Desiré Allaire overleden, verschuivingen in de Nederlandse koerskalender en onthulling overgangsdatum Zeturf nabij. 12:08 Klappers van de week: Mooie uitbetalingen voor kleine inzetten. 13:47 Promoties en jackpots: €ashback actie op kwartet Duindigt, groepsspellen 5+ op Chantilly en Auteuil, een lekker Engelse jackpot op zaterdag en WK V75 uitgesteld. 16:57 Vooruitblik: Naast de Derby kijken we vooruit naar het Svensk Masterskap op Aby, de eerste klassiekers voor 2-jarigen in Wolvega en de Cesarewitch op Newmarket. 24:35 Games: De ontknoping nadert: klassementsleider pakt weekprijs en doet goede zaken. 26:04 Interview: We praten met Martijn de Haan over de kansen van Kate Baldwin in de Derby, zij was de verrassing in de selecties. Gaat zij opnieuw stunten? 30:52 Interview: We praten met Robin Bakker: kan Kilimanjaro zich herstellen van zijn teleurstellend optreden in de selecties? 35:48 Interview: We praten met Rick Ebbinge, die met Kentucky River als favoriet van start zal gaan maar die meerdere gevaarlijke tegenstanders ziet waaronder de eigen stalgenoten. 42:24 Tip van de week: Ed heeft een leuke tip op Duindigt en Vincent ziet goede kansen voor een outsider op Newmarket. 45:17 Afsluiting. De Wedbeters podcast is ook te beluisteren via: Spotify iTunes Podcast Overcast en diverse podcast apps. Luister hier naar de vorige afleveringen van Wedbeters

Buffalo Trace is one of the most recognized bourbon distilleries in the world both in terms of age and quality of products. Hancock Lee and his brother Willis Lee followed the ancient buffalo crossings along the banks of the Kentucky River in Franklin County, and through these Buffalo Traces, found the limestone rich water that would form the cornerstone of the distilling site where it stands today. Guys, this distillery produces some of the heavy hitters we all know and love, everything from that classic Green Label Buffalo Trace to the now coveted Blanton's single barrel and even the rare and celebrated Pappy Van Winkle line. On this show we got to taste Old Charter, E.H. Taylor Single Barrel, Eagle Rare, two different Wellers, Antique 107 and Weller 12, Hancock's Reserve, Elmer T. Lee, Rock Hill Farms, and the extremely rare and coveted George T. Stagg.   If it sounds like a staggering lineup, it was: 9 whiskeys in total; so we had to bring in a few guests with the knowledge and palette to handle it all. First we had Katy O'Donnell from Bond & Royal, a subsidiary of Sazerac who owns and distributes Buffalo Trace. The Sazerac Company purchased the distillery in 1992 and has been a huge part of continuing to keep the spirit of tradition and future innovation alive. Her historic knowledge contributed so much color to each bottle we drank. Also, we brought in Wen Yeh, the owner of local Los Angeles whiskey bar Neat, and head bartender Arash Farzaneh. They opened Neat with an educational spirits experience that offers whiskey flights as well as converting customers to take their great whiskey...ahem...neat.   This is Part 2 of 2, so if you haven't listened to Part 1, go back an episode!   Click on any of the following links to purchase the spirits. Here is a full list of what we drank: Old Charter https://bit.ly/OldCharterB5   E.H. Taylor Single Barrel https://bit.ly/ColonelEHTaylorSB   Eagle Rare  https://bit.ly/EagleRareTen   Weller Antique 107  https://bit.ly/WellerAntique107   Weller 12 Year https://bit.ly/Weller12YR   Hancock's Reserve https://bit.ly/HancocksReserveSB   Elmer T. Lee https://bit.ly/ElmerTlee   Rock Hill Farms https://bit.ly/RockHillFarms   George T. Stagg https://bit.ly/GeorgeTStagg19   Check out everything from Bond & Royal here: http://bondandroyal.com/   Check out Neat here in Los Angeles: https://www.neat.la/   You can always find us at www.CartelHour.com for additional information on the podcast, and of course, you can visit www.CaskCartel.com for America's largest online premium spirits marketplace.   Follow us on social media @CartelHour where you can find information about upcoming episodes, and live tastings at The Infusery.   And speaking of those live tastings, for those living in or visiting the Los Angeles area that truly are intrigued, if you're interested in drinking along with us, we would love to have you to come enjoy an evening at the Infusery to drink through a carefully selected assortment of spirits. We offer custom flights and have a robust library of over 750+ spirits to choose from. And you get to drink with Seth and I, pick our brains, learn a ton, and generally have a blast. Visit www.cartelhour.com/join for more information.   And, if you're a spirits brand that would like to be featured on the podcast, please visit https://www.cartelhour.com/submissions   Thank you everyone for listening and remember to drink responsibly, and in good company.

Fried chicken and old governors. Missing girls and the Kentucky River. Made-up CIA operatives and perhaps the most infamous party house in all of Lexington, Kentucky. Join us for our latest installment of The Bluegrass Conspiracy series.

Buffalo Trace is one of the most recognized bourbon distilleries in the world both in terms of age and quality of products. Hancock Lee and his brother Willis Lee followed the ancient buffalo crossings along the banks of the Kentucky River in Franklin County, and through these Buffalo Traces, found the limestone rich water that would form the cornerstone of the distilling site where it stands today. Guys, this distillery produces some of the heavy hitters we all know and love, everything from that classic Green Label Buffalo Trace to the now coveted Blanton's single barrel and even the rare and celebrated Pappy Van Winkle line. On this show we got to taste Old Charter, E.H. Taylor Single Barrel, Eagle Rare, two different Wellers, Antique 107 and Weller 12, Hancock's Reserve, Elmer T. Lee, Rock Hill Farms, and the extremely rare and coveted George T. Stagg.   If it sounds like a staggering lineup, it was: 9 whiskeys in total; so we had to bring in a few guests with the knowledge and palette to handle it all. First we had Katy O'Donnell from Bond & Royal, a subsidiary of Sazerac who owns and distributes Buffalo Trace. The Sazerac Company purchased the distillery in 1992 and has been a huge part of continuing to keep the spirit of tradition and future innovation alive. Her historic knowledge contributed so much color to each bottle we drank. Also, we brought in Wen Yeh, the owner of local Los Angeles whiskey bar Neat, and head bartender Arash Farzaneh. They opened Neat with an educational spirits experience that offers whiskey flights as well as converting customers to take their great whiskey...ahem...neat.   Click on any of the following links to purchase the spirits. Here is a full list of what we drank: Old Charter https://bit.ly/OldCharterB5   E.H. Taylor Single Barrel https://bit.ly/ColonelEHTaylorSB   Eagle Rare  https://bit.ly/EagleRareTen   Weller Antique 107  https://bit.ly/WellerAntique107   Weller 12 Year https://bit.ly/Weller12YR   Hancock's Reserve https://bit.ly/HancocksReserveSB   Elmer T. Lee https://bit.ly/ElmerTlee   Rock Hill Farms https://bit.ly/RockHillFarms   George T. Stagg https://bit.ly/GeorgeTStagg19   Check out everything from Bond & Royal here: http://bondandroyal.com/   Check out Neat here in Los Angeles: https://www.neat.la/   You can always find us at www.CartelHour.com for additional information on the podcast, and of course, you can visit www.CaskCartel.com for America's largest online premium spirits marketplace.   Follow us on social media @CartelHour where you can find information about upcoming episodes, and live tastings at The Infusery.   And speaking of those live tastings, for those living in or visiting the Los Angeles area that truly are intrigued, if you're interested in drinking along with us, we would love to have you to come enjoy an evening at the Infusery to drink through a carefully selected assortment of spirits. We offer custom flights and have a robust library of over 750+ spirits to choose from. And you get to drink with Seth and I, pick our brains, learn a ton, and generally have a blast. Visit www.cartelhour.com/join for more information.   And, if you're a spirits brand that would like to be featured on the podcast, please visit https://www.cartelhour.com/submissions   Thank you everyone for listening and remember to drink responsibly, and in good company.

From Kona, in Letcher County, Kentucky, came one of the tallest men in the world, a true giant. Martin Van Buren Bates traveled the world as a circus performer, which allowed him to meet the love of his life, Anna Swan, one of the tallest women in the world.  Together, they still hold the Guinness record as the tallest married couple ever.  Today we tell that story. You can subscribe to the Stories podcast at Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, RadioPublic, IHeart Radio, Spotify, TuneIn and more. Thanks for listening!

A low energy (Low T) episode rife with technical difficulties and incorrect speculations about the nature of the universe and what not. Go listen to the good episodes over on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

Lee Currens is one of the best-known personalities in the wide world of coonhounds. Noted for his big-winning Treeing Walkers at major coonhound shows, Currens is a strong proponent of dual-purpose hounds that hunt as good as they look. Growing up on a central Kentucky dairy farm, Currens developed a skill set for showing livestock early on with his family’s registered Jersey cattle. Always taking pride in the animals he presented, the transition to coonhound showing and winning big while doing so, was an easy transition. In this interview Chris and Steve cover myriad subjects with Currens including coon hunting as a boy on the Kentucky River, attending early competition hunts, meeting and hunting with many of coon hunting’s most famous personalities, John Monroe, Elmer Harrod and Billy Stinson to name a few, and his involvement in building foundations of popular strains of Treeing Walkers that endure today. Lee discusses his commitment to never hunt an ugly dog. Perhaps his crowning achievement is revealed in discussions about his mentoring several young people into the lifestyle. The interview spotlights a side of the guest that his extensive exposure as a show person has not revealed before. Currens’ experience with, and knowledge of hunting with hounds supersedes his many accomplishments in the show rings. His winsome personality, understanding of hounds and his longstanding involvement as an extreme houndsman is all here to enjoy in this episode. Houndsman XP is Powered by Simplecast

Lee Currens is one of the best-known personalities in the wide world of coonhounds. Noted for his big-winning Treeing Walkers at major coonhound shows, Currens is a strong proponent of dual-purpose hounds that hunt as good as they look. Growing up on a central Kentucky dairy farm, Currens developed a skill set for showing livestock early on with his family’s registered Jersey cattle. Always taking pride in the animals he presented, the transition to coonhound showing and winning big while doing so, was an easy transition. In this interview Chris and Steve cover myriad subjects with Currens including coon hunting as a boy on the Kentucky River, attending early competition hunts, meeting and hunting with many of coon hunting’s most famous personalities, John Monroe, Elmer Harrod and Billy Stinson to name a few, and his involvement in building foundations of popular strains of Treeing Walkers that endure today. Lee discusses his commitment to never hunt an ugly dog. Perhaps his crowning achievement is revealed in discussions about his mentoring several young people into the lifestyle. The interview spotlights a side of the guest that his extensive exposure as a show person has not revealed before. Currens’ experience with, and knowledge of hunting with hounds supersedes his many accomplishments in the show rings. His winsome personality, understanding of hounds and his longstanding involvement as an extreme houndsman is all here to enjoy in this episode. Houndsman XP is Powered by Simplecast

New for 2020, it’s Scotch Pursuit! Ok, not really. But what better way to start the new year by trying something new and having Dr. Rachel Barrie, the master blender for The GlenDronach, BenRiach, and Glenglassaugh of Brown-Forman, come and show us the ropes. We talk about malting, peat, Glens and Bens, rules and regulations to be considered a scotch, the temperatures and more. This is a fantastic 101 to the scotch world and even made us, not so much scotch curious, but more single malt curious. Since this recording, we’ve tried numerous single malts and found some great ones. If you have an “entry Scotch” for bourbon drinkers, drop it here in the comments. Show Partners: At Barrell Craft Spirits, they explore whiskey in an entirely new way. The team selects and blends barrels of whiskey into something greater than the sum of its parts. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Al Young. Why all the Glens and Bens? Does the altitude affect the whiskey? Talk about growing up around scotch. Tell us about your doctorate. Tell us about the the brands. What is an old school malt? How do you keep malts consistent? What is malting? What is the process for making scotch? What kind of stills do you use? What is your favorite cask? How do you make a blend? How old does scotch have to be legally? Is there a lot of evaporation loss in the barrel? What proof does BenRiach come out of the barrel? How many barrels are in a typical batch? Do you have a team helping you blend? Is there a limit to the number of times you can use a barrel? Tell us about the special releases. 0:00 All right, and I want to make sure that I'm saying these right. Ben Ben. Ben rush when we have Ben react. Oh, gosh. Ben, Ben react. Well, no, I want to be able to introduce and kind of talk about it. So Ben, we are going to hear him fumble. Glenn chronic, right and then Glenn glassing Oh no, glass, glass, I 0:23 have a glass of wine glass. Okay. 0:27 I must leave that one and 0:32 I'm gonna butcher this so bad. 0:45 Happy New Year everybody. It is Episode 234 of bourbon pursuit. And with the new year it comes time that we can all reflect back and start with a clean slate. It gives us a chance to focus on where things are exciting and where we see change happening and we looked at the world of bourbon 1:00 Saw that there's too much drama. So we explored what else this wonderful water whiskey has to offer. And we decided that we're going to start venturing off into scotch. So now you can look forward to a whole lot more scotch podcast happening in 2020. All right, that was a bad joke. We're not gonna be doing any of that. We don't have any other scotch playing episodes, except for this one you're gonna hear today. So you're in the clear. All right. Now let's get on with the news. The bourbon world loss and other great on Christmas Day at 2019. With the passing of Al young from four roses. Alice served in various roles at four roses for 52 years. In 1990. He became distillery manager and in 2007, was named four roses bourbon brand ambassador. He was also historian and published the book for roses. The return of a whiskey legend in 2010. I was inducted into the whiskey magazine Hall of Fame in 2015. And he's also a member of the Kentucky distillers Association, Kentucky bourbon Hall of Fame. After the dedication of the 50th anniversary bottle in 2017. He was boosted in the spotlight and he was regularly seen during 2:00 Private barrel selections. We captured him telling the story of four roses and part of his career. Way back on episode three in 2015. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family, friends and the entire four roses community. We covered this in the podcast way back in July because on July 3 2019, lightning struck a warehouse at beans maturation complex on the site of the former Old Crow distillery on McCracken road. The warehouse held an estimated 40,000 barrels of whiskey and collapse resulting in a fire. The site is located in the banks of the Glens Creek, which flows into the Kentucky River, which eventually goes into the Ohio River. State Fish and Wildlife investigators later found dead fish along 62 miles of all three waterways with the most impact happening in Glens Creek in the Kentucky River beam. Suntory has agreed to pay the state of Kentucky more than $700,000 following the environmental damage from July's warehouse fire, according to Global's courier journal that Kentucky Energy and Environmental cabinet negotiated a $600,000 fine with the 3:00 Companies Jim beam's brand new unit, an additional $112,000 to reimburse the agency for its expenses from the fire. Now we've talked about the rise of shipping alcohol on the podcast plenty of times before. But now there are studies coming out, the volume of liquor sold online in the US should be more than quadrupled by 2020 for reaching an estimated value of $13.4 billion. And this is according to I Ws or who is the global benchmark for beverage alcohol and data intelligence. out there hurdles that come on this, you've got the antiquated three tier system, you get blue laws and individual states that take care of age verification. And you also have perception because half of the people that were surveyed during this thought that purchasing online was illegal, with companies like drizzly leading the charge, along with other retailers using things like instacart for Costco, people like this. They're doing same day delivery. Expect to see more that it didn't happen in 2020. Thank you to everyone who supported the bourbon pursuit Christmas charity. 4:00 raffles, we raised $13,740 for the USO pets for vets and love city. We appreciate everyone who took the time to donate to these good causes and the winners, you'll be receiving your items in the mail over the next two weeks. We've been truly impressed by our latest pursuit series offerings. Episode 18 of pursuit series was our first ever ride barrel. And it came from Finger Lakes distilling. It's a four year old but it packs fruit and spice all in one for $65 and we also released Episode 19, which is from our Tennessee stock. It's a 10 year old bourbon and it tastes like those orange push ups that we all used to love as kids. We have less than 15 bottles remaining of Episode 18 and about 80 bottles left of Episode 19 we also have less than 10 bottles remaining of Episode 12 so you better act fast. You can get the links to purchase all these by going to pursuit spirits.com this was an exciting episode for Ryan and I we don't know anything about scotch like none 5:00 Least when we started this podcast, we were curious about bourbon. And we started to learn a whole lot more before really diving into it. So what better way to get the full experience about scotch, then by having Dr. Rachel Barry, who is a master Blender for multiple lines of scotches, come on the show and show us the ropes. We talked about multi Pete regulations be considered a skoshe temperatures and a whole lot more. This is a fantastic one on one to the scotch world, and even made us not so much scotch curious, but more so. single malt curious. Since this recording, we've tried various American and foreign single malt and found some that we've really loved and enjoy. So there's a lot more out there than bourbon for most of us. Now. Sit back, Let's relax. Let's hear what Joe from barrel bourbon has to say. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 5:51 I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits, we explore whiskey in an entirely new way. My team at barrel craft spirits selects and blends barrels of whiskey 6:00 into something greater than the sum of their parts. Next time ask you bartender for barrell bourbon. 6:06 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char. There are a few people you meet in life, where they just instantly feel like they're a brother or a family member, or someone who just cares so deeply about another human being that they would just do anything for a total stranger. 6:27 That's who al Young was. Al young, was probably the most knowledgeable person in bourbon that never wanted any credit. Al Young was this incredible brand ambassador for four roses, who had started working for the seagrams company in 1967. And had been all over the place in the distilling business. You know, to me that the pinnacle of his career was when he served as the plant manager for four roses, everybody talks about the master distiller but our was 7:00 plant manager. And when it came time to retire, they found another job for him because they didn't want to let him go. Because anybody who ever met our young just felt this Kismet kind of special relationship to him. He was, he was avuncular, caring kind, and he wanted to know about you. That's what made our young so special was that it was about bourbon and he loved four roses. But it was never about really anything other than the people. I wanted to know where you grew up. How many kids you have, what you love about whiskey, what you don't like, he wanted to talk to you and learn about you. And so when he passed away on Christmas Day, this past week, 7:50 I think 7:51 a lot of us felt that we felt this big hole that we lost a friend and yeah, we 8:00 always talked about how we lost a whiskey legend. But more than anything, Al was everybody's friend. And if you ever did a barrel pick with him if he ever shook his hand if you ever had a drink with him in a bar or, or had a sandwich in a cafe, you know what I'm talking about. Now, Young was one of a kind, and he will be missed. 8:25 And that's this week's above the char. If you want to learn more about al Young's contributions, go check out my Forbes article, visit forbes.com. And you should also check out the book he wrote about four roses. You can just find it on Amazon search for four roses. Until next week. Cheers 8:48 welcome back to this episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Ryan here on site in in another studio or at Brown formance. Yes, but today we're talking about 9:00 topic that's so green to us. Like, um, I, we got this email from Andrea who set this up. And I said, Let's take it, let's do the opportunity because we need to branch out a little bit because we've been so bourbon focused in our podcasts and our lives. We forget about this. Oh, there's this whole other world of whiskey that we're not even touching on. And then actually, if you look at it sort of Trumps even what bourbon does on the global map to Oh, yes. But by far and it's funny on the way here, I was thinking like, all right, what we're going to talk about and then like, start thinking, like, when I was when you're like in your 20s, early 20s, you like, kind of make all these rules for yourself. Like, I will never pay someone to mow my lawn or my kids won't be the ones that screaming at the restaurant. And another role for me was, because I'm from Bardstown. I will never drink scotch. But today, I'm changing that and I'm excited to learn about it and drink some scotch. I know it's going to be exciting to do that. And that's really why we have it. It's a 10:00 This is what I love about this is that we have a guest on today that is is pretty world renowned, especially for the scotches that she blends and she touches. You know, I think we might be a little jaded, we might be sitting in the bounds of royalty right now not even really recognize it. Yeah, we're peasants, Scott. 10:19 So let's go ahead introduce our guest today. So today we have Rachel Berry. Rachel is the master Blender for Ben wreck, the Glen. Glen glass and all i got i hope i got that right for single malt Scotch whiskies in the brown Forman portfolio. So Rachel, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. You did well with those Kenny Yeah, I know. He was kind of fumbled through this quite quite comical 10:42 because we want to have a glass of Glen glass and though it was that, is that how it was? I said a glass of glass. Ah, let's see. That's a very basic question. It starts off while the Glens and Ben's what like there's, you know, Glenlivet, Glynn morenci Glen, Glen glass and Glen dragon 11:00 We're with altitude Really? Okay, so Glenn doneck is very deep down a valley in the valley of brambles. 11:09 So it's a Glen. Okay, and Glenn Glasser is deep down beside the sea. Okay. So you have to again, go down and tickling glossa and then Ben reacts a little bit higher altitude we call those dollars here. 11:28 dollar Yeah, yeah. go fishing. Exactly. You can go fishing. They're absolutely good surfing there. Oh, no, there's no service 11:39 whereby the see Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. And then Ben react is slightly higher altitude. So it's a bad. Okay. Yeah. So I'm assuming the altitudes do something to the whiskey that really kind of pushed into the name is it as well? Yeah, everything makes a difference with scotch. I mean, scotch whiskey. 12:00 been around since 1494. 12:03 If not for centuries before that was our earliest recorded evidence and we've got 128 distilleries in Scotland and no to disillusion the same is the spirit with the greatest diversity of style and individuality of character in the wild. 12:19 And we're gonna be tasting three years a little bit later we'll dive into those I probably jumped ahead. itinerary or 12:26 so yeah, altitude is a part of it is a part of it. It's one part of many parts. Okay, glad we got it kind of like you know pinos, you kind of grew up you know, to our wine, you kind of grow in the more lower humid regions, then you have grapes in the higher regions, they get more sun and sky kind of gives different flavors white, right? It affects it affects the maturation effects of fermentation, where the distilleries, gotcha. Cool. And so you're based out of Scotland too. Is that correct? Absolutely. We're in Scotland. Well, I was born, five minutes from Glen donek distillery, and I was brought up the air 13:00 Then I went to Edinburgh University and the head office the brown Forman production head offices in Edinburgh, or the Scotch whisky. merry go round by so you're destined to be in scotch? Absolutely. And, you know, I've come home working for Glenn doneck and bendrick and going glass, because, say born near Glen donek. I learned to surf with my dad at Glen Glasser and learn to glide at Ben REAC. That's cool. So I guess talk about growing up around it. I mean, was it was your family having influence into it at all? Or was it just something that you just kind of naturally gravitated towards? Well, my dad was the first to share with me a weed jam when I was far too young. I shouldn't say this to be having a weed drum. 13:46 beat everybody. 13:48 And he also collects malt. So it was a big promote efficient model. 13:52 And, you know, it's more actually being involved in farming as well. You know, it's more of that side of things. 14:00 Then distilling, but yeah, it was serendipity getting into really, 14:05 because I'm a chemist by trade, and I could work for oil or, you know, pharmaceuticals and offer jobs with those. But then I just happened to be cycling past the Career Service on the last day, adult was advertised at the scotch whiskey Research Institute didn't even know such a job existed and got the job. And then I've never looked back for years and researching the alchemy of scotch and then making it so that's even a fun journey. Now the other thing we forgot to mention you're also a doctor the trade might not it might correct so last year, I got an honorary doctorate from the University of Edinburgh so I was honored to be given that feel even worse about myself now. 14:49 You're not only seeing the hands of greatness we're also a doctor. 14:53 Well, I actually studying medicine first as well. It's quite funny. Well was good medicine. 15:00 Why See? That's why I say you know we drama D keeps adult 30 yep away 15:07 How much have you been drinking already today? Not in this kit. 15:12 So let's let's talk a little bit more about you know your history. You know going because I know that you've had your hands in a lot of the Glens and bends of the region as well before you were a master Blender here at Brown Forman taking care of the brands here. So kind of talk about some of that history too. Yeah, I mean, I started off with a Glen and the far north of Scotland and to Glens. The margy Glen Murray, and then also eila with our bag and work with their blends as well creating them so that was, that was a fun journey. I was 1617 years and then move to more worked more with xyla 15:54 with the highlands clan, and also with the lowlands 16:00 was a Glasgow distillery. And then 16:04 a couple more. 16:07 I lost and another Highland. But I've left the best to last working with Baron Corbin because it's truly going home. So I've done my whiskey exploration. Yeah, you've seen them all. Yeah, whenever I see a bottle Glenmorangie I'm like, is it tastes like oranges? Or you know, like, I don't know it, it looks like an orange bottle like, I don't know, what's, what's the difference between like you talked about, I'll guess that's where Laphroaig and you know, different types of brands. What makes the region different? Like one part is one part. I mean, a lot of it is down to the conditions. So 16:46 we'll talk about space side and stuff like that to 16:49 go 50 to 60 distilleries in it. So that's where most of the distilleries are. And Ben react is right in the heart of space sites. 16:57 Halfway between the mountains See, and it's beautiful. 17:00 Beautifully balanced. And, you know, it tends to be you know, fruit laden moles are from Speyside so when rain is particularly fruit Laden, like orchard fruit. 17:12 So everything makes a difference. shape of the stills water the barley. 17:18 Yeah. And then the highlands I've actually would like with Glendora there's actually very few distilleries in the eastern Highlands there's only three. So Glendora is incredibly distinctive. 17:29 And it's a real old style old school mode, which makes it an old school because you gotta understand we're coming to this you know, we know mash but let's start the basic like, what is is God's vs. Okay, here we go. Here we go. We've only got four malt whiskey anyway. Yeah. single malt and that's the caterpillar that's growing. That's what people are really loving. And, and we've got three award winning top distilleries. three ingredients. malted barley, so has to be malt for single malt 18:00 Whiskey meter. 18:02 Like sir deserves 100% one all. Gotcha. So when you go the tour, it's like it has to be 100% Well, 18:11 they're always like 15 you 1% corn You know, that's the thing 100% malt because malted barley is the most complex material you can create flavor from in the world. There's hundreds of flavor compounds created from malted barley. And there was that versus other grains, because it's just all cast in a pool of amino acids of lipids as well as the starch that gives you the sugars. So there's just so much on the on the husk, you even get vanilla, you get searchers, there's so much to be extracted and converted by the yeast to flavor so it's much much more than just 18:51 alcohol. So in you know, in fermentation, you actually create the same flavors as you would do in a wine. So, you know, people often say Oh, how come 19:00 This great penis from mote 19:03 mall is magical. It just creates all this flavor. And that's why notice those are the same. It's a very complex material. And it's the synchronicity of, of where the seller is every single step of the process that creates quite a distinctive character as well to say how do you keep that consistent 19:20 between the distilleries because I would imagine that you know, one farmers multi bar one farmers barley that you got to bring in and malt like you had to have some sort of process that try to get a consistency. Yeah, but I mean, there's always going to be some sort of variations. Yeah, I mean, the malted barley varieties per year might be slightly different and more to do with the harvest. But generally, you know, most of Scotland will be growing the same, the same varieties because they're the ones that are working and you know, disease resistant and and grow and give you the highest yield. 19:53 But I mean, multi process can affect it. Ben Rhea, we've got all more tanks, which is something really special 20:00 one of only two distilleries of those, you know, 55 distilleries in Scotland that to have the Maltings so that's you know, something something special we don't maltol year but we do batches somebody doesn't know can you describe what multi malting is just bring that would be that somebody 20:18 is bringing the barley to life. So the barley is harvested spring barley is harvested in August and then it will be melted typically, you know, in the autumn 20:34 or it can be kept as but just the green barley as we call it before it's melted for longer and malted in the spring. 20:41 But malting means that you basically steeping water. Okay, so you're giving it some moisture, which is encouraging it to grow. Yep. And the growing phase is called germination. And that's where the mall is layout and the floor and the old style is with a, you know, to shovel it, basically 21:00 Mo shovel and turn it starts routing together it stops it from knitting together with sprites, okay and ensures an even temperature. And this allows the the enzymes to start working and the fooling the barley into thinking it's growing right because given that those conditions and so when we got the enzymes just perfect and the body is modified so this activate those enzymes, it's then we need to stop it. And that is done through mulk killing. And that's where the the germination barley is, is is raised on to Multi Floor. And beneath that there is heat and that's the kill. Okay. 21:42 Traditionally, Pete was used and most distilleries when we were back, but then you know, in the 20th century there was gas etc. So, so so most distilleries these days are undefeated. 22:00 with Ben reate, we've got both. So we're very lucky to have both. But Pete itself, is is, is found a lot in Scotland. 22:12 For Ben REAC. We source it from nearby the distillery and there was Caledonia forests 10,000 years ago and over 10,000 years, the Caledonian forest is as broken down over time over this time, and created the piece that we use. So Arpita actually, you can see fibers in it almost like fibers of wood. So is this like, like sphagnum peat moss or anything like that type or no, this is more like woodridge widger Okay, this is because it's from the northeast where you have Caledonia forest. Whereas if you went to Iowa, which is an island off the west coast, which makes the most 22:53 was the highest density of peated whiskies when it is a peat moss, a peat moss. Yeah. 23:00 No moss and also only because I use peat moss. I've agrico like turf. He's, he's 23:07 a 23:09 horticulture degree and we we use peat moss to like improve soil profiles and textures because it's rich in organic matter 23:18 all that organic matter you see this decade over 10,000 years and different parts of the geography of Scotland and you have you know different types of vegetation. And when you burn the peat, which fuels the fire that most of barley, 23:35 the aromas from from that material that vegetation and permeate the barley. So this introduces smoky flavors and you know, more nyla you find something more medicinal, more CBD decaying sweet seaweed type of smell. 23:54 Whereas, with Ben REAC it's that sweets would smoke on 24:00 Like a barbecue smell I think people in Kentucky would love it. 24:04 You know, it's really, really sweet. I guess that's based on the native vegetation there. Yeah, absolutely. But also in space side this is very, very rare, right? We Pete, every year we do about 15% of what we do. And then I get to have fun playing tunes with the beat on the competed stock and with flavor and create flavor so so it's great fun but space I typically is undefeated malts they tend to most of your glands 24:34 So Ben Ben reacts really very bold and adventurous and having Is there anything like heat shortage or is that ever word like people here talking about you know, uses evoke or whatever they're like, oh, Ukrainian oak shores they ever complained about they're all using all our Pete. We thought plenty. 24:55 There's plenty of pee. Gotcha. doesn't actually take that much Pete to create smoke. Gotcha. 25:00 etc. So it's all relative, isn't it? probably use more in your horticulture. Yeah, farmers and weekend gardeners. Let's see, I was kind of curious about like, what was the shift of moving away from Pete? Was it just in efficiencies of scale? Or was it a change in flavor that people were looking for? Like, what was that? Because you said most distilleries are kind of shifting away from that. 25:22 Well, this know historically, 25:25 it was more to do with the fact that we could get natural gas to to 25:33 drive barley and which is more efficient. 25:36 And also, you know that for the environment overall. So yeah. 25:45 We got, we got we got barley, they were melting it and then we're killing it. Yeah, dry it out to stop the germination process. All right, where we at steps the next step? Oh, we get the multi barley in 26:00 millat we have to put in a mill. And there's two different types of mill and distilleries. porcius or Bobby mill, and they've got four different rollers. And when it goes through the mill, this cracks open the husk, which is the surface of the barley. And then it goes down to the next level of rollers. And it gives you three different particle sizes, which are the husk on the outside of the barley, the grist in the middle and the flower, and you have to get perfect combination to give you the best taste and to get the most extraction. How do you get the perfect combination? Well, you just know what's right for you guys. And then you can use a sieve and use a sieve and you you work out your different particle sizes percentages, got a really simple process to for the guys to the distillery 26:45 analogous to like the corn that we take in, you know, basically turn into a powdered form. We're sitting there getting ready to do our mash. I guess the 26:55 flower package is not good because it would clog up the mash tun 27:00 Okay, okay give it will give you lots of alcohol and also it's not as good from flavor. 27:06 husk is great because it gives us a filter bed and mash tun and we want to produce a clear war target. So when we drain it off, and you know it filters through, and then the rest is the majority of 70% in the middle size particle skips great flavor and alcohol. Awesome. Alright, so we're moving past the mills where we're going next we're going into the mash tun and there's different sort of mash tons and scotch. I Glenn jornet. We've got copper mash tun 27:37 which goes right back decent job six, it's incredible. Lots of content with copper. It's a traditional recompile very slow process takes six hours to mash. Ben react also takes a long time to to mash very slow, where some more efficient, bigger distilleries might take three hours. But we believe slow and steady wins the race. That's right. The the tortoise always wins when I read this 28:01 Yeah, you know, Peter Pan, do you know the tortoise scene? Yeah, well, you get complexity in whiskey if you take your time. That's right. So with bedrick, for example, we we add one water at around 6065 degrees, 28:23 we mash this and then we drain it off through the filter bed. And then we add another water, a higher temperature around 74. And we drain off and they both go into the fermentation process. And then we add two more waters, which just clean it all out and go back into the first with the first water from the next run. And so we saw remash water, so it kind of 28:51 so we, we basically are great economists in Scotland. We don't let any job goes to waste. Yeah. And so with 29:00 mentation Are you all hanging your head on like this is our own yeast we've had for since 1400 or whatever, you know, we've got great distillers yeast that the whole industry uses which are perfect for scotch, she'll be black distillers uses profit for scotch. But when we ferment as well, you know, this is where the magic comes in, you know, we know we've got 29:23 wash backs that you know, air does the natural Flora can get into so it can influence the fermentation as well. 29:33 Tanks kind of sort of thing. Gotcha. Well, it's a Glen Donna, we have Scottish large wash backs. And sorry, I thought it's large. It's a wood. Oh, okay. I'll never would see he knew exactly was not miss anything. Yeah, like I got nothing here. So 29:52 my computer 29:54 was like, you know, you think about some disorders we go to and they've got the Cypress tanks. You know, that's my guys, man. That but yeah, this is 30:00 Uh, 30:01 yeah, so yeah, so squad is large and therefore, you know, it can you know pick it can breathe. You can never get it fully cleaned. But that's great because it gets more of the micro flora. Yeah. Your 30:15 character character. 30:18 Character Yes. funks a good boss. Robust, robust Highland character. Yes. That's how royalty says yeah. 30:29 Alright, so we're through fermentation. We're, I'm saying distilling copper stills, right pot stills. Oh, copper ports tell ya, I noticed again, notice no column stills ever never call themselves from all over. And while they're saying it's because it's pretty efficient and what we see around here that's kind of what a lot of the lot of the stories hang their hats on are doing a lot of bourbon and a lot of runs at once is basically using a really massive column stills. We have one of the most inefficient process 31:01 Incredible complex to flavor. It's all about the flavor and the end of the day. And with single malt in particular. 31:10 There's lots going on. So you want to take one cut this special for your distillery in the second distillation. So there's two distillations, typically in scotch. first one's called the wharf style tends to be the bigger style. And the second one is the spirit. So 31:30 in the first still, you distill the beer from around 8% alcohol up to around 20 24%. That's called low winds. And then you take the low winds, which is 24 and two, the second still the spirit still, and we, we cut the middle point, so whether it's the ceiling over 31:52 with bendrick, for example, 13 minutes, we just recycle. So we cut it, it goes into one 32:00 chamber. And then the middle heart goes into another chamber and that is for Philippians cask. And then the tales go back into that first chamber and then they're all recycled. So it's a very slow process, but it means that we capture very specific flavors. And then the still design is has an influence as well. So a Ben reate we've got very pure shapes so they just look quite beautiful pairs. And the this captures almost a fully peer job. Apple characters like an apple or church and the sales were that Glen Drona. We have 32:40 almost like saxophone stills. 32:43 Very unusual design. Certainly in terms of the neck, it curls around, up and down just like a swans neck. And this is very, very unusual. 32:53 So we have a boil ball that gives you lots of reflex and then the swans neck so we get this unique character. 33:00 How many different kinds of stills Have you seen over your course of time? You know, with all the time so I mean there's there's not kind of like a 33:09 I guess a good recipe that everybody kind of follows along like around here everybody goes oh, let's just call them down and we'll call today Yeah, well yeah, write a check and then in Dumbo Scotland all the stuff for sites Yeah. Oh coppersmith and the replace the stels member scotch whiskey is been gone for a long time Glendon It was 1826 You know, when I got those cells, so they'll replace them. Exactly. You know, every every little batch every you know, everything just the right, same, exactly same dimensions, but each distillery Yeah, so they're the man they're the coppersmith. Gotcha. Yeah. So quite often, you see stills just driving along the road. 33:49 being replaced. Yeah, that's awesome. Though. The corporate does where I mean corporates makes great conductor. It's wonderful for flavor because it catalog 34:00 is more fruit takes it the harshal elements. It's, it's magical. Absolutely. And so from there you've got your hearts and you're swimming you're filling barrels. Now you're filling barrels lately. Is it typical still 53 gallon sometime x bourbon cask like we're talking about the book is interesting because if you go back to 1826 for example, back then, it was Sherry principally that was important into into Scotland and bottles. And then the cast's were just use the surplus before then it was Aquavit, I Water of Life clear spirits. And you know, that farmers made because they had surplus barley. Who wouldn't? Yeah, 34:46 a little bit different around here. Normally, you would call that moonshine? Yeah. 34:51 Yeah, so it was serendipity, as many things and then the scotch industry that these Sherry cast and the main but the results are 35:00 podcast klarich cast what at that point? And we're used to, to host the whiskey which 35:08 you can ask me that. I love with no. I mean, I've spent so much time analyzing oak from around the world. I just love them all. I cannot say that. That's a cop out. Yeah. I love the one. I'm creating the whiskey with that day better. So today Yeah, yeah. Today president with that cast, I'm fully present with each cast. Gotcha. Absolutely. Alright, so what was the last cast you used? What was the last before? Well, I came to Louisville a few days ago. And the last cast I knows from was 35:44 definitely Glenn Dornoch, Patrick Hammond f cask. The last one px px Sherry right. And yeah, so that was the last one I'm learning the beauty of scotch and parvis 35:57 authenticity as well. 36:00 That we have this incredible selection we have to use a walk. Walk is the best. Yeah. You know, other words just do not cut the mustard. They don't have the complexity. 36:11 But apart from that it can have been you know, virginal we can use just like in Barban and or use casts So, for example with Ben redic we have the most eclectic collection of casks in space eight if not in the whole of Scotland. And we're has 13 we've got everything from the virgin not to bourbon to rum, to red wine, Bordeaux, New Yorker to Moscow masala to Tawny port report to a Miss Miss Miss Spano. 36:50 Madeira, so turn Okay, yeah. So you have all these different cask and I guess we'll get into to your your black magic of blending 37:01 Well let's talk about blink. So like here, like the master distillers like you know the celebrity or the you know the person that everyone looks to like but I hear over there the master blender is kind of like the runaway hit and away nosing lots of casks I know is about 5000 samples per year from casks 37:23 because it's such a complex spirit and no two castles in there very can be very different. 37:31 So I've noticed about hundred and 50,000 casks well my lifetime so far, 37:37 and counting and counting. But, you know, is the key part of, 37:44 of, of delivering a perfectly balanced single malt is knowing, obviously, what would you use what your wood policy is because we can reuse them more than once and then the different recipes of such 38:00 are almost in the cast selection. So the percentage you might use a bourbon cask virginal although very few us first you know we've got a real we're onto a winner here with Brian for men because we have source of virgin oak it's absolutely amazing it's great to play with and tons of us to work and tons of great dad Daniels barrels good for desirable for so take your pick so yeah so it's up to the master blender to kind of work out in conjunction obviously in collaboration with various people in the business so our influence in various various people in the business to see I think this will really work and consumer love it and you so like we're doing it. Are you like all right I went 30 bourbon expert and blends and when 35 x Madeira blends and or Derek has finished and then to blend to make you know a brand or like or no formula. Well it's it's really up to 39:00 whiskey. And to be honest, it's the whiskey that tells me 39:04 because she can keep me in Kim, it tells you it tells you the story tells you what it wants to be, you have to listen. And see you're not the guidance counselor. 39:16 Like Jackie says, when you know when she gets barrels off, she can like taste them and be like, all right, you're going off to be the old forester. You're going to be the prohibition series. You're going like here and there, but yeah, actually, you actually let the whiskey Tell you what, what to do with it. Absolutely. You know, like, 39:36 the characters whiskey Jasmine, what to do with it. I mean, with Ben react, it's got perfect balance of fruit Mononoke you know, and that is the key for me is to create character individuality. 39:50 Make it shine, just bring it all out, you know. 39:54 So, with Ben week 10 for example, general this is an appropriate time so yeah. 40:00 Yeah So Ben Murray lunch 40:08 with the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital of the world. They're known for the popular fusion series, however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that has been finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is, you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rackhouse whiskey club rackhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Their December box features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series and a two 41:00 Hundred milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merchant side. And as always with this membership shipping is free. Get your hands on some early release Bardstown bourbon by signing up at rackhouse whiskey club.com. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 41:19 So, with Ben week 10 for example, general this is an appropriate time. So yeah. 41:25 Yeah, so Ben Murray. 41:30 So this is the core whiskey from Ben REAC. It's unpainted, or just make sure we're going which way Left to Right Left, left, right, left Bell know if you're not. 41:40 Yeah, well, the last time we did this, were wells with with Jackie and I went right to left and I was like, I'm not getting the same notes as you all but you know, that's me for not following directions. So this is this is the great label one that we're trying. So this is Yeah, this is the core product and this is 42:01 A marriage of 42:05 bourbon so principles john Daniels car says the main constituent of this product and also some Sherry cask from European oak and then also some of the brain for forming cooperage virgin oak, which is medium toasted and medium charge the same chat Tanya yes or no for a smell like Hawaiian Punch or like you know like the pineapple. Pineapple like like a toasted coconut like yeah more you know is that the more fruit you're gonna get? It just keeps on giving memory it just like is so fruit laden it's like a pina colada or something. 42:48 Well, you get pina colada Yeah. I got an apple orchards how work with ripened ripening peaches. Yeah, Rhino come up with the best tasting notes for you. 43:00 They're everything I had as a child. And I'm like, All right, we're gonna find this in the whiskey. Yeah. And you find it. I did. Well, I didn't have pina coladas when I was a child, but 43:11 I did have lion punch. Yeah. You ever had Hawaiian Punch? Yeah. Okay, cool. I know what you're talking about for all relatable still. 43:19 So very fatty. very fruity. Yes. Very nice. pear shaped cells. Yeah. You know. Beautiful. And you got a Yeah, I mean, some people who who drink wine really loves us. So, you know, becoming from Shapley or, you know, sharni you know, that fruitiness 43:37 is very, very distinctive layers of fruit. So, what kind of proof what kind of proof we're looking at 43% alcohol, which is 86 degrees proof. 43:49 So, it's a good strength. It's just the right strength to keep the fruit martynuk in perfect balance. So like with scotch like bourbon, they typically like art for years. We can start selling this one 44:00 Are you all like we can start selling this? Well legally it can be from three years old. Okay, okay, but I would never sell think about three years old because 44:11 the complexity is so much richer. It just gives you more a 10 years old so at three years is that for the single mother to be called a scotch? It has to be at least three years over boss. Okay, so any scotch whiskey be a blend of Multan green, because we do have green distilleries as well. 44:33 Like what other kind of grants or you know, we focus on the single malt because that's where all the flavor is. 44:41 So, if you look at other grains then is like like filler, like it doesn't really have it doesn't bring as much complexity or character to 44:51 the Scotch whisky industry was built on the complexity of single malt 44:58 and the green 45:00 Yeah, was pretty much there as a as a filler. Gotcha. See? Yeah, greens cheaper. So like, yeah, we're saying a mall is, you know, expensive to make the match process. It's handcrafted. It's you know, it's barley is expensive, sort of talking about aging. 45:18 Because it seems that barrels seem to like, retain a lot more liquid over in Scotland and Lino The longer they sit, I mean, you've you've got scotches that are yet wanting to learn 50 years old gin gin? Yeah, it's hot as hell. Yeah. And so we never get so Scotland. 45:39 I know sometimes I wish I lived there because be so easy to grow grass is the perfect weather. You know, we've got I guess that's why 45:49 we have an incredible landscape. Yeah, Scotland is so lush. And yes, it's perfect for barley as well on the east coast and then P on the west coast. 46:00 Public question. Well, yeah, 46:04 it's add, it's okay. I didn't count grass. Well, it's like, we're talking about how hot it is here versus Scotland. And I'm like Scotland is the perfect place to grow grass because grass here in June, July, it's like, it hates it. But it's good for bourbon because it's evaporating and moving it out of the barrel, you know, and I guess that was the question more along the lines of evaporation. I mean, you see in a lot of evaporation last over in Scotland that you would compared to like bourbon that are that's coming from Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, what what's considered a we call it a short barrel here, you know, like, if it's like below, like 100 bottles were like, Ooh, that's a short barrel. That one's gonna be good. Do you have Scotland? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We lose about on average for the whole industry. And it does vary. And then we get into another discussion. We lose about 2% of the volume and leasers about cold per year 46:57 of the original desk, which is ok. 47:00 We're about what five to 8% I think is kind of what you see around here at least at the first year. I think it's upwards double digits. But yeah, after that it kind of settled. Yeah. So what that means because it's a very slow reduction and also the the apple strength goes down. I know in bourbon, it goes up. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. 47:21 There you go. I told you you were coming in with 47:24 no idea. Yeah. So the ankle strength goes down. And that means that you're extracting different things from the the old cast the longer you leave it because that strength is going down. But you're only losing 2% volume, meaning that you can leave it for longer. It's got more interaction with the word more oxidation, most importantly for single malt because that gives you the elegance of complex to the top notes, etc. The finesse that you find in a single malt is nice, but I'm how much different flavor now to get in this. You know, 86 proof tenure. What does this 48:00 single malt Yeah, yeah Ben REAC there's a lot going on it's like it's incredible the flavors you can get out of it. Like I said, we're pretty amateur and scotch and you know, most of the scotch I've had had been very heavy peated so it's like really pungent kind of earthy like smoky type. This is definitely more on the fruity or side and more like Captain Crunch berries. We ever can crunch with the berries. Sorry, talking to him, but I can imagine what you're enjoying. Well, so it's kind of like, you know, cereal in the milk. What will sugary substance yeah you have like a really sugary berries. And absolutely. 48:44 That is the 10 years or cheers for another delicacy here in Kentucky Fried pizza. 48:53 Fit pizza. Never heard of a big sugar cookie with the 49:00 Oh, I had that with this whiskey for lunch. See we're on the same wavelength. And it was just amazing because you get the fruit you get the malt which is like the creaminess of custard and vanilla. And then you get the oak, which is like the actual sediment on top and the lovely pastry base. Yeah, you know, so layered. Have you have you tried it yet? for pizza? If you tried this? Oh, no. Yes. I noticed you having a Oh yeah, we said we 49:29 are Ryan. Kenny. Ryan. Yeah. And then we have both been drinking. 49:35 So 49:37 we see Oh, 49:40 sounds good. Cheers. Cheers. 49:44 Y'all for pizza? Yeah, somebody new pairing? Take them take them back to Scotland. I will. Yeah, I said I probably I need to visit our local patisserie. Oh, yeah, maybe they 49:56 call it them. But it is it's just like a bakery. And that's the beauty. 50:00 Henriette, because it's in a sweet spot between the mansion in the sea and has a perfect environment to give you this balance of fruit modern look, if you go up the hill of it to other sellers, you get a little more kind of delicate fruit but without the malt. And if you go down it gets a bit more oil and it loses fruit. So we have the perfect balance to 50:19 little higher up. Yeah, yeah, cool. But this, I like the hierarchy. Yeah, yeah. Power up. Yeah. 50:28 What about the next Ben? And while I do the same facility? Yeah, yeah. It's the same, same. 50:34 different, different a different expression. But the different expression here and Black Label for anybody. Yeah, I mean, anyone that's curious. We have curiosity is anyone that's curious about beat because this is the piece of all there it is. Yeah. And going back to the 1970s. This is the only way 50:57 this is the only space side to have peace and welcome back to the 97 51:01 And and off space site. So an RP 51:05 is there has to be there has to be a ton of people that love that the taste and the smell of Pete. And I don't know for me it's hard to kind of gravitate towards like a more fan of of the the other Ben versus the peated. But yeah, I think this is also could have been my upbringing. I don't know if it's our upbringing it could be, you know, our palates not adjusted to it, you know, because a bourbon Bourbons very sweet. We've had torn pieces. Yeah, maybe that what it is, but you know that we come from Bourbons. It's very sweet. Yeah. Well about the barbecues. 51:38 Smoking weed like a ha ha. Yeah. 51:43 He likes to smoke me. I got my green and I got do some brisket, some pulled pork and some ribs. Yeah, like that. It does. And you have any forest you have forest. Burnham forest. So salvus in the forest, your brother a few boys, guys. 52:01 Tiger scout Yeah, start playing baseball maybe it wasn't about it I never really never really made it ever have the pleasure of maybe you know as you age just wow I love having a little campfire Yeah, I had I had flint and steel at one point I think that was the coolest thing ever got out of Boy Scouts was actually having my lens steel. Oh yeah, yeah, being able to actually create a fire with that like just, you know, well have a sniff back there. It will take you back there. You're in that forest. You feel like with your fire steel. You've got some marshmallows being toasted. 52:35 Ah, you've got some sugar maple in there as well. sugar maple. 52:43 It's just so it's just so radically different than what we drink. You know? That's, that's, that's why it's so like, it's still 52:50 just as you haven't tried to, you know, 52:54 open your mind. I knew I was coming into the diversity of flavor we got here you little bin is 53:00 The gateways are gateways God gateways gods and this is like Big Bang 53:05 well big bands little bit higher and strength as well okay 6% alcohol non chill filtered and nice to decrease gotcha what uh what are they? Were they coming out of the barrel typically at you didn't already say that did you know I didn't know we know they go down 53:20 okay so over 10 years, we're probably going to go from the felling strength of around 63.5% you say 163.5 is what you go into the barrel so 63.5% 136 730 737 degrees proof and then it goes down to losers over 10 years but 5% alcohol so I'll go down to about 5859 Okay, basically, pen Twitter's in the warehouse, concert warehouse it ends up in size of the warehouse. Traditional dunnage or tall is there an idea in the scotch world of like single barrels 54:00 Because I guess Glendora can Ben Rick, we we do single bottles for for for customers for you know for retailers, you know some of the specialists. So to see the single cast Yeah. 54:14 So yeah, absolutely. And we've got we've got cast strength and expressions as well so yeah. All right around the corner. So but this is 4692 degrees proof 54:33 right? Oh yeah, this one reminds me of like my 54:38 smoke a turkey every year for Thanksgiving and has this like Cajun rub that I put on it's like a real spicy and smoky so like, kind of get kind of makes me regret reminds me of that. And this is Barban cast. Cast. No wonder 54:57 I feel like I'm 54:59 still suffering. 55:00 That's why you're loving it because it's still got the sweetness. Remember I said it was the Pete has wood rich so yours like smoking mood. Yep. And then got the Emperor front caviar. And then unlike the island malts, we are very fruit laden even in distillation so we get all that fruit in there as well as the smoke. So like smoking a fruit pizza, smoking a fruit pizza. I love it. Yep. Get it on the cam everything. Everything is under the fruit pizza around here. Yeah. Oh, and maybe some some bananas on the barbecue with some chocolate in them as well. Dark Chocolate Chocolate. Banana croquettes it since you've been to Kentucky I've not had the pleasure. Oh, wow. Change Your Life. But I'm gonna ask for about Banana. Banana, rolled in. Mayonnaise and then bake. It sounds so good. And you could crush that peanuts on it. It's magical. 55:57 Barbecue that and it's this is exactly 56:00 Glass right here, nailed it. You know, you just have to open your minds and Kentucky to the flavors that you can join your food. You know? So I guess another question that we get to kind of, you know, kind of related back to bourbon a little bit is with inside of bourbon, we have this idea of like, oh, like there's a huge shortage, like, all these higher age expressions are getting very hard to find. They're very, very expensive. And everybody rushes and jumps and like there's this huge influx of people that are really starting to buy. Now, do you see that still happening like in the scotch worlders that scotch has just been around for so long? It's had the luxury of time and stocks and that you're able to still put out 10 2030 year old expressions and they've been agent since 1400. Yeah, you know, may I ask, Is there any actually left in the battle and Kentucky after 10 1520 years? Yeah, not much after, I'd say. What was it I think, you know, we have we know some distilleries around they have they have some 15 57:00 20 year old releases, but you're looking at 70 to 95 bottles in the bank cash during a cash drink something like that. You know you, you talked to Chris Morris we've talked about before and birthday Bourbons and stuff like that with the heat cycled warehouses that there are times that even 12 years old that they haven't the casks. Yeah. So imagine Christus forgot to put the plug. 57:24 I would imagine with Virgin oak, there would just be wood, wood and more wood. And lots of food. Yeah, I would imagine for a very long Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm sure like, it takes a lot. You're like, all right, this is very tacky, or Yeah, like, bitter kind of finished to it. So there's like we're all just going for balance. I mean, the fact that single malt. Ben music is so fruit Laden. It means that with maturation over a long time, you're just getting the escaping that balance convert in the woods into a softer flavors and 58:00 Get a lot of reactions happening rather than just a distraction. So it's very, very complex. But in answered your question, yeah, we've got some older songs and we're very lucky at Ben react because started putting in 1972 again, and we've got starts going back to the end of the piece of models. So we've got 21 year old Tim porous Well, it's fully peated but tastes like caramelize Pier. It's incredible. And Honey, I need to enable untoasted ever had a pair caramelized? There you go get on it on Oh, yeah, it's amazing. You know, so really, yeah. peachy, but you know, so And yeah, so we have all this wonderful whiskey that for people to discover 58:48 in flavor, you know, people are just waking up tomorrow. Well, so I guess the I go ahead and I was gonna say and these so what like a typical barrel dumping these blends like how many barrels are 59:00 Yeah, typically bad. Yeah. And Ben Rhea typical batch would be around 50 to 60. Okay, it's pretty small. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean it's pretty small batch single malt 59:13 per bottling and obviously I want to keep it consistent as well each time so yeah, very cool. Well, yeah so we bought mostly bourbon bourbon for the the Curiosity is the 10 year old was the virginal the Sherry and the the bourbon. And we've got lots more expressions besides using wine cast, etc. Oh, yeah, I get to play. So you're getting like me, it's like a pessary you get so much different flavor going on. He's going into that cake shop. Is it like here we have like a like, 59:47 I don't know what this word comes. My accountability partners are like tasting panel tasting panel. That's what I'm looking for. To like. 59:54 You know, just make sure that everything you're blending is consistent with the brand 1:00:00 Rachel or is there? Or is there a team behind you as well? That's sort of like to be on the team. I do. I think I've passed. 1:00:07 I think I could do just for pizza. You know, I've got an assistant. This is just one, just one assistant. On flavor side. Here. There's like a likes like five or six, five or six. However, however, you know, the distillery team as well, everyone gets involved. Everyone gets involved. Gotcha. You know, the final product is and speaking the final product, let's talk about the last one we have on our right, which is the Glen dronicus. So talk about what this is. And really what this expression is, as well. Yeah, you said it so perfectly drawn. Know, 55 minutes later, I think I figured it out. 1:00:41 Well, that means valley of the brambles. You've heard the brambles, brambles, brambles, no blackberries, blackberries there. Oh, 1:00:49 it's beautiful. It's in Highlands. But isn't a valley in the highlands. And it's I was born very close to silly brought up there. It's the richest most abundant 1:01:00 landscape for agriculture. You'd love it. 1:01:03 It's great soil. Great, just best barley and Scotland near Glendora distillery and primarily we use Sherry cask that's what really sets us apart 1:01:18 we say 1:01:20 there you go 1:01:22 really going hard with the apples here lots yeah like applesauce or rather not baked because what oh no they're not baked not be 1:01:31 there you go oh wow well I get everyone's nose is different of course Oh, sorry 1:01:39 yeah I mean ourselves she said yes we've got saxophone shape skills which means that we have a robust kind of earthy character and on top of that we've got all these fruits which are picking up 1:01:52 but Bramble fruits is quite dominant I think a picots figs 1:01:57 Oh yeah, all that going on. Kind of 1:02:00 Soft fruits and the and the darker fruits come through. So, with gone donek we source Spanish oak, from from Spain from Galicia is filled with two types of sherry, primarily 1:02:17 Pedro Jimenez and all the Russell and Pedro Hammond. I think we buy the most pedra Hammond f casks in the industry because Pedro Hammond eth is known as the King of cherries. And it gives you a really anxious kind of sweetness, dates, raisins, dark chocolate, all that going on. And that really sweet and then the other also is dryer and nuts here. 1:02:41 So yeah, so we for the 12 year olds 1:02:45 have 12 year old petropolis 12 year old are also and we bring them together, and the combination is the perfect balance for Glen tonic. So a question about when you're using 1:03:00 You know, x px and alluro. So barrels and stuff like that, because you use them multiple times over. Is there like a, because you're going to only extract so much of that flavor, you're not going to get it every single time. So it's like, Is there like a chalk line? It's like you like 123? Like, like we've used this three times. Yeah. And so and so you know, like we need, we need one that's first new fill or a few new fills to add into this to kind of keep that sort of consistency to it. Yeah, absolutely. It's just 1:03:32 my path I've got archaeon flight path and working on because obviously as volume grows, and it will people love going john, we're just gorging casks for the 12 year old and they're all first fill. pajamas and all their also you did ask in this first fill, and we just scored those and then we'll maybe refill them with new make the new fill. And then I know that it's going to take longer for a second fall. So it might be 18 years. 1:04:00 are more or am I even have to rewrap it back into ourselves? If it's not? If it's not if it's not worked as well or it's not extracting enough, but Spanish is incredibly deep in color and talents. It's like Spanish podcast last a long time. So, typically in the industry going back to the 19th century, there would have been used to be four or five times, you know, and they would have still been strong when it leaked, etc. The solid the Gothic. Steve's a big casks. And, but we only use them 1:04:35 twice, really? And if I was to fill a third time, I would probably not gonna give me Yeah, I'm gonna be back after a few years. I mean, reracked I take it take the risk out of that cast and put it into First of all, gotcha. Okay. So, you know, it's like, if you've got kids, you know, if they're doing well at school, you leave them as that school and doing well and they're flourishing and they're, you know, becoming great individuals, if they're not doing so well, that 1:05:00 school you might take it out and put into for school. Rachel, you hit the park with this one. This one's awesome like that you like the Glen? Yes. I think I'm a Glen fan. I like I like the valleys in the highlands. Yeah, well the thing about Glen janyk is I'm a judge at spirits competitions. Okay. And for me the whole mark of fine whiskey full stop. But especially fine single finest single malt is that it must be complex balanced loads of character. And always deliver more on the taste than on the nose. Yeah. xid expectations every time. This is Yeah, this reminds me of like a apple cider with all the you know the get the cinnamon sticks and the morning spices all in there kind of just like a little bit prettier version of that. But 1:05:52 I see again, the spice from the all are also cast. So you could get gin, warm gingerbread bake in the oven center. 1:06:00 Thanks absolutely great for Christmas. For me, like no, I think all our Christmas in a glass you know? Or Yeah, definitely fall as well. So you get a nuttiness at the back of the palette from the other also. So when you taste it up or just have another sip, yeah, go for it. Yeah, I guess I another question about because I know that Glenn tronic has a really big kind of cult following sort of behind it to like it's it's one of the most popular brands that are out there. And I know I joined 1:06:28 it I know there was a head of in in a probably a year, maybe a year and a half ago there was released called like 1993. It was kind of talk about sort of that and sort of some of these, these sort of special releases that are coming out that a lot of these sort of a whiskey nerds and scotch nerds are really going for Yeah, I mean, the beauty of Glenn donek is that its traditional, and we haven't changed anything. So it's that's why I call it it's kind of old style. 1:06:56 And what that means is your recommend nature and obviously we 1:07:00 You have seasons. So for example, the spring and the spirit of steel and I get a little bit more kind of like vines and almost a grapey quality from all it's incredible. And then into June I'll get more kind of dark fruit and jamee into October and Autumn in the fall. You get more of this nutty tobacco leaf leather is incredible. So what does this mean? Well, obviously when I create 12 year olds, I'm using whiskey from all the seasons and I'm giving that perfect balance taste, getting all that complexity that you love with a single casks, individual cask bottlings. You know, it's giving the connoisseurs an opportunity to wow they're appreciating all these different complex flavors that are coming through and different cast at different times. They're getting that chance to really have a taste of complexity of Plantronics and different individual cast. So it might be a cast that's more robust and more full body Normally, you know all our offices 1:08:00 Maybe from from November. Or it might be one that's a bit more spicy from the winter. Or maybe one that's just before Jeremy from the summer. Like, you know, no, that's awesome. So yeah, so and they love and they love discussing it. They love it. They love it, but you know your stuff. 1:08:21 Listen, I read a few forums and I see what people are talking about what they're buying, and I just get curious and that's just one of the things that happened. That's not quite a following Glenn Dornoch has got quite a following and more and more gravitating and I think you know, with this quality I think people in Kentucky are gonna love it. Yeah, and this one actually, you know, it has a little bit of a darker and richer color than than the Ben but well the Ben and Ben Maria can go and donecker all natural color. And that means it's just from the from the cast naturally cast imparted color. 1:08:53 Other other malts might be have caramelize for example. 1:08:57 But you know, it's all natural for us. 1:09:00 So, the color that you see is coming from the Spanish shock and pedra menethil are on the roster, Cherie. So, yeah, you get a more intense, more intense color. Well, you know, that's, that's awesome. And thank you so much for the information. And, you know, also, thank you so much for flying all the way to Scotland to have this interview with this unbelievable. I mean, this was a pleasure for us. So I know, I know, it was definitely an honor for us to actually have you on here. Because there's, there's probably so many people in the scotch world that know who you are. And it was a pleasure for us to finally have this introduction from somebody like you to say, you know, lead us through a scotch tasting like this. So it was it was really an honor. That's absolutely my pleasure to be with you. I hope I've managed to convert at least one of you to add single malt Scotch to your repertoire. I think we might have like a Glen and Ben might be in the ticket here. Yeah. So I agree. Glen and have been glad in the back. Yeah, yeah. So you're going for 1:09:59 Yeah. 1:10:00 glendan have been Yeah, I agree. I mean this cleanse dronicus really good. And then the I'm still I'm still not on board with the Pete yet. Maybe it just it's like everything else it just makes you like your coffee. I don't drink coffee I don't drink 1:10:13 coffee. 1:10:16 I either like it like black nothing in it like, like Peru or Nicaraguan blends, like they're real kind of fruity like panicky kind of, or I like it as an almond milk latte where you go nutty that's why you like them but don't like milk coffee cuz kind of like brings it down. See you like both bands Don't you like smoking on to you were there in the forest. I was in the forest in the camp, you know? Turkey and mark you were? Yeah, you see it's interesting because interesting. Y

New Riff is a name that has become synonymous with bourbon lovers. You may have recalled our conversation with Jay Erisman, Vice President, back on Episode 072, but this time we get to speak with Owner, Ken Lewis, who drives a bunch of the decision making behind the company. It feels like an episode of How I Built This as we get to hear Ken’s story. From owning and hustling liquor stores to eventually selling all that to start a distillery, hiring some great people, and having a few strokes of good luck to put him in the position where he is today. Then we also get to hear about his thoughts on stickers and some future plans he has in store for New Riff as well. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. In 2013, Joe Beatrice launched Barrell Craft Spirits without a distillery or defied conventional wisdom. To this day, his team sources and blends exceptional barrels from established producers and bottles at cask strength. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: Jim Beam’s Historic Kentucky Home on Airbnb: https://www.travelandleisure.com/hotels-resorts/vacation-rentals/jim-beam-bourbon-historic-kentucky-home-airbnb This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the top 5 states for bourbon besides Kentucky. What is your title? Tell us about your entrepreneurial spirit. How did you get into the alcohol business? How did you end up in Northern Kentucky? Do you have any regrets getting rid of your stores? How did you decide to sell Party Source and start a distillery? How did you get interested in bourbon? When was your first taste of bourbon? How did you find the team to get the business off the ground? How did you chose the mash bills? Tell us about the O.K.I. days. Do you still do contract distilling? So why did you release the bourbon at 4 years? How is such a young product so good? How did you get such a great location? What are your future plans for the bourbon? Tells us about the balboa rye. What do you think of the single barrel stickers? 0:00 Everybody Are you interested in looking at the distilling process and pairing that with key business knowledge such as finance, marketing and operations, then you should check out the online distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville. It's an online program. It can be completed in as little as 15 weeks. It's taught by both of you have all business faculty and corporate fellows. So you're getting real experience from real experts at the most renowned distilleries, companies and startups in the distilling industry. all that's required is a bachelor's degree, go to U of l.me. Slash pursue spirits. 0:34 I thought, you know, this could be almost like semi retirement because once you start distilling, I mean, you just kind of sit around and watch barrels age, right? That's what I assumed would happen. You know, I'd wander in, you know, at noon or something and 0:47 get myself a glass. Hey, you 0:48 know, how hard can it be? You know, you're just gonna watch these barrels. Get old 1:04 What's going on everybody? It is Episode 223 of bourbon pursuit. I'm Kenny, one of your host, and it's time for the bourbon news so let's get to it. Woodford Reserve is releasing their fall 2019 Masters collection is a chocolate malted rye bourbon, this limited edition and one time release is offering a different flavoring technique where they toast the ride grain just long enough that it begins to taste like chocolate. This bourbon will have a suggested retail price of 129 99. It has hints of guests that dark chocolate as well as spice coming in and at 90.4 proof. The completed mash bill will be 70% corn 15% of the chocolate malted rye in 15% of distillers malt. Baker's bourbon is getting a facelift and a rebranding as well as a new limited edition offering. This one sort of flew under the radar for a lot of people. It was first picked up almost a year ago by ski Through the TTP just kind of trolling through the website, but now people are starting to find it on the shelves. The Baker's bottles with the black wax that we once knew is going away but there's going to be an upgraded packaging and a slightly higher price tag coming in as well. It is now changing from a small batch 107 proof to a single barrel but still at 107 proof like keeping a seven year age statement. There's also going to be a limited edition 13 year addition of bakers that will have an adorning a metallic inspired label as well as a metal neck charm. We've seen pictures of them already out there so keep your eyes peeled when you're going to the liquor stores. Travel and Leisure magazine has reported that starting on Monday, October 21 you will be able to rent Jim beam's historic home on Airbnb being Suntory will release a limited number of one night stays available for booking through the end of 2019 and each day is priced at just a mere $23 and this marks the same exact price as a bottle of Jim Beam black bourbon. The only catch is that you have to be 21 years or older to stay inside the home. But inside this store home, you're going to have three bedrooms as well as two and a half bathrooms and it overlooks the beautiful ever bought lake. And it comes stocked with a full bar of Jim Beam Bourbons. You can read more about it with the link in our show notes. New riff is a name that's become synonymous with bourbon lovers. And you may recall our conversation with JS man who's the Vice President and back on episode 72. But this time we get to speak with Ken Lewis who drives a bunch of the decision making behind the company. It almost feels like an episode of how I built this as we get to hear Ken's story of owning and hustling liquor stores to eventually selling out a lot of that and to start a distillery hiring some great people. And as most of these stories go, it's just a few strokes and good luck to put them in the position where he is today. Then we wrap it up by getting Be Here some of the future plans he has in store for new riff as well. All right, now let's get to it. Here's Joe from barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 4:11 Hey everyone, Joe here again. In 2013. I launched barrell craft spirits without a distillery and defied conventional wisdom. To this day, my team and I sourcing blend exceptional barrels from established producers and bottle strength. Find out more at barrell bourbon com. 4:26 I'm Fred minnick, and this is above the char. This week's idea comes from Patreon supporter bill now, Bill asked give me an overview of the production and other states who is making their own juice. When did they start? Is Kentucky bourbon better? pick five states and highlight the top distiller in each one? Well, I think it makes most sense to take a look at the states that are bordering Kentucky. The states that are bordering Kentucky have the ability to actually pluck talent from the distilling capital of the United States. Isn't that that is Kentucky. There's no question about that. You also have access to the still makers and the and the training and, you know, places that are close to Kentucky can, you know quickly drive down here and learn from the likes of Vendome or independent stave, etc, etc, etc. to the access to talent that puts Indiana right up there. And of course Indiana has the MVP ingredients distillery that has, you know, goes back to the 1800s. It's in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, former seniors plant and I dare say you know, their bourbon rivals Kentucky's on a regular basis. Indiana is also home to you know, upstarts like Cardinal spirits that are very exciting. So Indiana is definitely on that top five list for me, Tennessee. Obviously it's known for jack daniels but we can't under look like some of the other great whiskey coming out there. Whether you like the style or not George decal is putting a lot of bourbon out onto the market, either through you know source purveyors or under their own label. And it's getting a lot of attention winning a lot of awards. You also have Charlie Nelson's Greenbrier distillery uncle nearest is coming on Coursera is in Tennessee so Tennessee is a state that is a no brainer to put on this top five. Now when you get outside of the states that really border Kentucky and are really growing on, you know, distilling wise, Texas stands out to me in a big, big way. Texas is a state that really they support anything from Texas. Texans are very proud of their state. And so if there's a Texas whiskey, it's selling out on those local stores, whether it's good or not, it's got that brand of Texas on it and people want that. That said I think about Connie's kind of stands out as the best from a from a quality perspective, garrison brothers does really well in blind tastings too. So Texas is one to keep your eye on. The one problem with Texas is they sometimes struggle with you know, water resources. So here's the hope and they get a lot of good rain. They can apply that to making good whiskey. I think Colorado is another one of those states. That's fascinating. Colorado really didn't come on until, you know, until the last decade. You've got Breckenridge there but a distillery that's really fascinating to me is to 91 to 90 was ran by this guy named Michael Myers. No affiliation with, you know, the Halloween guy, but he's a former fashion photographer. And he went from having a whiskey on the market that was just kind of so so to really improving it. So he's one of the most improved distillers that I've tasted in my career. And so he's done a nice nice job of building that brand in in Colorado and he finishes in Aspen stage and I tell you what, it's a fascinating flavor. So I think to 91 is an exciting story. I'm from from point A to point B. So I'm excited to see where they where they go next. Now rounding out this list, I'm going to have to say I'm going to pluck into the historical database of my brain in some ways, and say that New York is an extremely, extremely important state for the growth and rise of craft distilling period, when Tuttle town hit the scene in the early 2000s with Hudson baby bourbon, nobody really understood bourbon. It was not a time it's not like today or we had all these forums and people are talking about it or podcasts and everything. This was a time when people still thought bourbon had to be made in Kentucky. So what Hudson baby bourbon did for the conversation of bourbon just in general, is it allowed people to talk about well wait, bourbon doesn't have to be made in Kentucky, it can be made in New York can be made in Colorado can be made anywhere in the United States. And so that Hudson baby bourbon and New York open a lot of doors for people. So that's my list bill, Tennessee, Indiana, Texas, Colorado, New York. And if you guys have have an idea for above the char hit me up on Patreon that's at bourbon pursuit on Patreon or on Instagram or Twitter at Fred Minnick. That's at Frederick. Until next week. Cheers. 9:14 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon. Kenny riding solo today coming to Northern Kentucky in the Covington area with a brand owner that, you know, this is this is one of the brands that have really started to garner a lot of national attention. They were once known for Okay, I, we had a few other people on the podcast. I think it was like two years ago now. And I'm now coming back because this this brand is starting to blow up so much. And it's amazing that the the national attention has been getting at just a four year product. And we're going to talk about that a lot more in depth because today on the show, we have the owner Ken Lewis. So Ken, welcome to the show. Thank you very 9:58 much can I appreciate it? So what do you go by You wouldn't just go by owner the entrepreneur the, you know when the head man in charge 10:04 Yeah, I'll check writer that's my main function it seems like founder, you know owner Yeah. 10:11 So you've been you're you're kind of a serial entrepreneur serial owner. So this isn't your first venture into not only just the the liquor business, but you've done something. I mean, let's talk about before sure party source, like was there was there a time before then where you're doing sort of entrepreneurial things? Absolutely. 10:29 Well, I started in, in the alcohol business and and I sort of hate to date myself, but it's a fact in 1975, so I was 25 years old. So been around the business my entire career. I fell into it at that time. But I found that I really enjoyed entrepreneurship and the alcohol industry in general, and I just kept growing with it because that's kind of what I like to do is grow a brand or grow a business and taking some side steps, but they've always been an alcoholic beverages. 10:59 So What was that that first venture into the alcohol? Well, 11:02 I the story real quickly because it's a cute story but a true story is I was actually an English teacher in high school for two years out of graduate school. And my wife wanted to go to medical school and we didn't have the money and but that was okay too. And I was not living. I'm a native Lily Valium, but I wasn't living and loyal at the time I was in, in the Detroit area in the suburbs. So my father and brought his brother to loyal and had been successful at what was the predecessors of discount department stores, you know, Walmart before there was Walmart, there was a chain in every city my dad had gone from World War Two and surplus military and had then gone into discount department store anyway, he had a very excellent location. And it was alcohol was fair traded the state set the prices It was kind of a no brainer. Businesses just sort of showed up and if you had a good location, it was pretty easy so 11:56 people drink when good times and bad good 11:59 times and bad. And and and you just needed a good location. So he set up my uncle, he's trying to help him out with this wonderful location for a real small liquor store. And my uncle turned out to be a drunk, a thief. He was a womanizer, and he was definitely a gambler. So his idea of running a business was the show. I 12:25 think he hit every single one of the Cardinals. Well, 12:27 yeah, he was good at that. And he was an all around jerk, too. So anyway, he, his idea of running a business was to come in in the morning at like 630 in the morning, take whatever cash he could out of the cash register and a bottle for the day and then disappear. Well. Needless to say, after about no matter how easy the businesses with that kind of approach. After eight or nine months, the business it failed, and it was shuttered and my dad said, you know, this is a no brainer. Why don't you come to town? Quit teaching for one year, take over this liquor store. I'm sure you can make enough money maybe to say Your wife to medical school. And you know, you can go back to teaching you know that you can do this as a side gig. So we didn't use Word gig. That was that's definitely not a 1975 word. But anyway, I did it. And I said, why not. And so he loved me enough to get started. And I really enjoyed it. I love. I love the people part of it. I love retailing. It was it was in the West End, African American area of blue collar area of loyal. I loved learning, you know, just about people and what they were doing. It was before urban renewal, so the very intact communities and I felt that they made me feel a part of the community. I just, I feel like it was my street education and I was there for seven or eight years. I paid my dad back after one year I was so proud and I never went back to teaching and just stayed in the alcohol industry. So that's my creation myth. 13:53 And so your dad was the store owner at the time and he told you to run it is that what 13:56 no he owned the discount department store okay, right next door, the generated The traffic guy made it such a great location. But we were right on the corner, you know, with our own independent little store. And it was like 1500 square feet. So tiny little store and I just kept going. And then without trying to be too boring here. This is 14:15 how I built Well, 14:16 after seven or eight years, Kentucky eliminated fair trade it was eliminated through a court case, because the state was actually setting prices for private enterprise so it was thrown out and no one knew what to do. So I said what the heck I'll I'll do something. So at that time that the trend in retail was big box stores and you know, maybe there are a few of your older listeners that will remember that, you know, it's just cut cases by cheap by NDO cut the cases, no frills and let the consumer just come in and save money and it was a big trend. And I said, well, let's try that with alcohol and no one else is doing anything Kentucky sigh I found this old AMP and Shively, another blue collar area of low evil and I rented the whole place and I started this started like in September and it was not going so well I mean I was doing okay but was wasn't gaining much traction my all everybody was interested in the industry and what I was doing and not very happy because you know people want to keep preserved the past and they didn't like this young upstart with new ideas for the alcohol industry so everybody is watching me like a hawk. And we also had the first PC and the small business that I knew of in loyal and in order to because we had a fair number of skews even even for the you know, even compared to today, we still had a fair number of skews so the computer was the only way at retail to manage them and I was doing all the data input and everything I was working you know, 18 hours a day and we had a law in Kentucky and I'm sure it's still is that you cannot sell below cost. Accidentally I was so tired sometimes I made mistakes. And I would sell you know I would actually put into the computer the cost instead of the price or something. Yeah, so accidentally I was selling a few items below cost 15:58 me like a like a consumer is like perfect, perfect storm. 16:02 Yeah, you can come in, you know talking about looking for destinies you can just come in and looking for deal. So anyway, its competitors are watching me they noticed that they turned me into the state ABC board and this is a magical story and it's absolutely true story. So the Saturday before Thanksgiving, the courier journal, the big newspaper of Louisville was doing a story I'm sure it was going to end up on, you know, right next to the obituaries or something, nothing story, but they were in the building with a photographer. And just at that moment, on a Saturday morning, the state ABC showed up with three armed officers. And while the photographer and the courier Journal reporter were there, they literally arrested me and handcuffed me for selling alcohol below cost. And this ended up on the Sunday before Thanksgiving on the front page of the courier journal was some headline like young entrepreneur blows away the liquor industry selling products to cheeky 17:00 arrest. It's amazing that you get arrested for that 17:02 well and it was ridiculous because you know, within one hour they they you know somebody the supervisor was apologizing and they let me go and it ended up like three months later I paid like a $50 fine and you know, it was no problem but it put me on the front page of the newspaper and then of course all the suburbanites couldn't get there fast enough and it was Thanksgiving and we were we were a success from that point. 17:23 It tell me you gave that newspaper like frame somewhere in your 17:26 Yeah, I think that actually I don't have it on a wall and I've actually tried to research and I have to be more diligent But anyway, it's a it's a true story we got started and then that grew into a chain at one point of six discount liquor stores in the state of Kentucky and Northern Kentucky and for two up here and for loyal. It was a big chain and just to conclude the story about died lose track of time and maybe 1214 years ago, I was really very tired of being a corporate person. I'm not born to do that. I like being on the street. I like being in a register. I like You know being in the in the trenches and I wasn't happy I had like 350 employees and you know a lot of debt a lot that's a lot to manage it was a lot to manage to cities and and and you know, so it's dealing the lawyers and bankers and all the problems personnel problems that got big and blown up, got to my desk and I wasn't doing I was unhappy. And so I I like to express it as I jumped off the capitalist trade. And I sold five of the six stores because I really liked running a store and I kept the party source in Bellevue Newport right next to Cincinnati. And it was was 18:34 the reason for that was it because it was a very high traffic high volume or was it because you're like, I need to get a change at a level what was the 18:41 precisely very pressing on your on your part because that's exactly the two reasons so I felt it had the best future because Ohio still 25 years ago had state stores. So and so it was a no brainer if you were very, very close and we were at the first exit of the main main interstate interstate of The East End of Cincinnati and we are doing extremely well and I thought it could grow and be even greater store so I wanted to focus on it. And secondly was 100 miles from a local side stop working seven days a week, because I had a family had children. So those are the two reasons that I kept it and I love that store. And the party source today I'm happy to say is the week say that we believe it to be the largest single store in the United States alcoholic beverage store physically and as today about $48 million in business but of course, I had to divest it five years ago in order to become a distiller but it's I sold it to my employees I'm very proud of that. And they're doing very well today and have paid me back and and it's it's moving forward it's still a great store. 19:47 So while you were still on the retail side, was there ever a point where you had any mild regrets or saying like what if if I didn't get rid of these these five locations like could have grown bigger Could I have gotten a Because if you think of today of what's happening, you've got the total lines of the world that kind of buy up people like is there is there ever that kind of what if scenario in your head 20:08 no because and that just gets into personal philosophy, you know, the point of life to me is that just become rich. I think I think that's a root of a lot of problems today in corporate America and and and with our society in general there's too much greed and and it's all about me. So I enjoyed the entrepreneurial challenge and I liked working with people, a young team of employees as well as the customers and I love the freedom of owning my own store at that point you know, selling five of them I was debt free, so I could do what I wanted to do in the store and not have to do any short term thinking and so never looked back I have I'm happy to say I've always had a you know, very nice upper middle class lifestyle and by God that's enough. I mean, having some control over your life and and feeling that you're doing some good and that you're sharing enjoying some lives of your employees and being a good community member and caring about the environment and you know, having some balance in life and purpose and meeting, not just trying to make money and get bigger and bigger and bigger and die rich that never had any attraction to me. 21:14 So you're you're running one of the states not only just the state because you're here as you said, You're the first exit off of the coming off from Cincinnati in Kentucky. And it was it for a lot of people. It's it's a destination, it is a destiny, retail location. And at the same time, you're also like I said, it's huge. You're competing with the liquor barns in Louisville at this time. What was what was the determining factor to say I'm ready to hang this up and move to something new 21:42 well, and the liquor barns in Louisville were the original four of them were three of them were my my stores. Okay, so there we go. You know, so I mean that the circle goes around, but and they're good customer today and a valued customer of us today. The motivation Kenny was just Sometimes we do things and unconsciously our subconscious takes over. And just as whatever was 12 1415 years ago, I was just not happy and I call it my 71 aha moment because 70 one's the road between Cincinnati or Northern Kentucky and loyal and I was on it a lot. And then you know, had a lot of time to think and, you know, it just I wasn't happy and I wanted to make a change and I think subconsciously I knew that I was a little bit of a burnout I had been doing it at that point, retailing which is a very, very, very hard work and it is six, seven days a week and you know, all the holidays and so forth. So and fairly repetitious. You know, I was a buyer, I was a spirits buyer as well as the owner. And it's just the drill and it's, you know, as wonderful drill and I loved it, but it's intense and deals are coming at you and there's a lot of paperwork and and it's a routine that goes on and on and on. So I think subconsciously I was a little bit of a burnout at that point. I didn't want to retire. I love working and I feel that it's healthy for the mind. And I think retirement is like, announcing to your body that you're ready to die or something. So I really do believe that and so I was not at all interested in any of that. So, 23:12 you know, most people just get a Porsche. That's usually what, 23:16 you know, everybody thinks. I mean, when I sold the you have no idea what people said to me and what I know what they were not saying to me. You know, they were completely astonished and befuddled that a guy would take the party source doing $40 million a year debt free, you know, just a gravy train and not just like retire to a beach and on Florida or something and let a manager run it at least but to sell it, you know, sell it to the employees, you know, and take that risk on top of everything else was going to the spirits business, build a distillery madness, absolute madness, but anyway, JS men is my wonderful, fantastic well known a lot of your folks listeners will know who jr Smith is. So he's my co founder. I like to Thinking that way, although he's not an ownership, and Jay was my fine spirits buyer, the specialty spirits buyer at the party source. So he's worked for me for many years. And jokingly say, you know, can we're both watching this brown goods revolution happening and resurgence and resurrection. right under our nose. We see it at the party source every day of our allies. This thing's got legs. So, I credit Jay with, you know, why don't we open a distillery? Yeah, that's a great idea. Oh, it's funny. 24:31 Because they're not 24:32 any more good ones. You know, here we are running the party source, you know, you know, tracking money to the bank. Oh, that's a great idea. Jay. Well, along the way, it became a little more serious. So I do credit Jay and not myself with the idea for starting new Earth distilling. But it was it just appealed to my entrepreneurial side of me and the challenge aspect to get back into the game and and see what I could create and what my lifetime of experience in alcoholic beverages could do. And I love The idea of the challenge of starting from the ground up and building a team of young people, which has occurred and they're fantastic, and I just really wanted to have a second act in my life. And I actually and I'll tell you honestly, I thought, you know, this could be almost like semi retirement because once you start distilling, I mean, you just kind of sit around and watch barrels age, right? That's what I assumed would happen. You know, I'd wander in you know, noon or something and 25:26 get myself a glass Hey, you 25:28 know, how hard can it be you know, you're just gonna watch these barrels get old. So of course, it's proven to be way more challenging way more dynamic way more interesting than any of that. But that was the impetus was being at the party source seeing it happen. Realizing that why not Northern Kentucky all the action, the limited action there was seven or eight years ago was all in central Kentucky and just starting and loyal. You know, why not Northern Kentucky because we're right next to a city that's more than twice as large as local, very wealthy city and a sophisticated city. And, you know and the party source have done so well right next to Cincinnati, why wouldn't a distillery so we arrived decided to go ahead and take on the challenge and sell the party source and get back out there on the on the interest position where I just feel comfortable in a way that most people don't. 26:17 So you decide to sell the party source. Was this because you needed the funds to be able to start the distillery or is that is there another motivating factor? Well, 26:25 the main reason is in the three tier system, you cannot be a distiller or manufacturer, and a retail or wholesale or the that's what the three tier means I came across you can't be both. 26:36 I've also heard you could probably put your wife's name under the contract. I know you can get around. You mean that's another legal hurdle but yeah, 26:43 but but it's not true in Kentucky. And it is true in some other states, for instance, New York as a one store law and there's plenty of families that have four or five stores. But that is not true in Kentucky and we are way too big and way too visible to play any shitty shenanigans with the ABC and Too much is way too much as invested in it risk to take any of that on So, and I thought it was a great thing selling the store to the employees. And, you know, I take you know, when all of a sudden done I'll be very very very pleased with the success and the reputation and the great whiskey of new roof but I also will be proud that I've changed 100 or 200 lives and giving themselves some pride and some self some control over their lives as employees and an employee owned company, and a little nest egg. You know, I said when I retired when I sold the store, and my general manager john styles is a fantastic guy took a took it over. So we had an experience management team. I said there's only one thing I want, as long as I'm alive. When someone retires and they're getting like a six figure check. Even if it's just one of those big checks, you know for show. I want to him hand the check to that employee. That's what I want out of this deal because we're talking about you know, 15 $16 an hour employees. Maybe some Someday things go well and they seem to be after 20 years, some of them might be handing them a six figure retirement, you know, for people that are living paycheck to paycheck and I want to be, I want to be when that magic there when that magic moment happens. 28:13 Yeah, I mean, I think you're you're really wrapping up the epitome of what it is to be a better than, than most of the entrepreneurs that are out there that are after chasing that that big paycheck or chasing that big payday. Your personality is really showing through that it's a you're one of the good spirited people that are out there and, and trying to build something that's that's ultimately bigger than yourself. 28:34 So many other people. And I don't want to get on a tangent, but there's a big movement in the United States, called a lot of things. But there's chapters all over the United States called conscious capitalism, you know, then again, I don't want to get into a tangent. I'm not talking about bourbon. But the idea that capitalism doesn't have to be as raw and just ingredients selfish that you can care about the community and care about your employees. You can care about the environment. That the bottom line should involve all those stakeholders not just ownership so let's let's get back to bourbon let's 29:05 let's definitely get back to bourbon kind of talk about your, your introduction to it as well because I think we need to capture that because, you know, you had this very entrepreneurial mind going into it, Jay said, hey, there's this brown water revolution. But was there a point when you said like, you know, like, I'm from Kentucky, I enjoy bourbon. I like bourbon. You've worked in the stores. We're pushing bourbon to people or people to bourbon, like, kind of talk about your gravitation just towards the product itself. 29:33 Sure. And I'll be dead honest about all this. First of all, Jay and I are great pair and that is cofounders. Because Jay is a Trump has a tremendous palate. And he's also a tremendous historian of alcoholic beverages around the world. And he was the fine spirits buyer and he would sleuth out things that, you know, people in the Midwest certainly other than the two coasts had never heard of him brought in so he knew he has a network of people he knows about. around the world. So, Jay brings to new riff, the great depth and honest depth of knowledge and a profound palette, and, and sophistication about alcoholic beverages to, to our company. I don't bring any of that. You know, I mean, at the party source, we are phenomenal wine store, and I'm a knowledgeable amateur. That's my extent of it. So I feel I'm a knowledgeable amateur about brown goods. But no expert do not have a refined palette. I know my place and that's good too. So that's what I bring to the team, of course, the founder of the financial aspect and the team building and the long term strategy and perspective of where the industry is going and so forth. So we're very good team together. So I think that's been a core of how we've, you know, started new ref and where we want it to go with it. Can you remember your first taste of bourbon? My first taste of bourbon was probably like a lot of lot of your listeners It was and I do remember, unfortunately, I was in the backseat of a car when I haven't seen y'all know where this is going. Yeah, all bad. And it was I'll never forget it was JW dat in a pint bottle and drank it straight. And you know what happened in the backseat of that car, which I spent about three hours terribly drunk, and a happy cleaning up before I turned it back to my day. So hoping he would never know Chris, he knew instantly. But that was my first experience. Like, I'm sure many of your listeners. 31:31 Absolutely, absolutely. So let's talk about, you know, the breaking of the ground and trying to build the team here. I know you've talked about JA and bringing him in, but what does it take to find? The still the distillers, everything like that to actually start getting the business off the ground and as well as sourcing because I know you had source products that are beginning to 31:51 well, the wonderful, yes, I mean, again, we Jay and I are good team and I think in some ways, I'm a good leader and founder be I know my own weaknesses. And I know what I don't know, which is a famous line from the past know what you don't know. And so when we started, we decided to approach this as a very serious enterprise. We decided to approach it a scale, that we would command the presence of Greater Cincinnati, and tend to preclude competition from coming in. Our goal from the very beginning was to be one of the great small distilleries of the world. Knowing that would take decades perhaps to accomplish and who knows, it'll be a self congratulatory thing, no one's going to notice that but to play in the sand lot of some of the greatest stories of the world small ones, is our goal and remains to this day our goal. And so in order to do that, we wanted to do everything extremely well, right from the beginning and put the resources which I felt we had with the selling of the party source, to work to to wait as long as we needed to for Five years to start bringing out whiskey and to just go for it in terms of quality in our and to find a leadership position as a small distillery the United States. So knowing that we went out or I went out and found some great people to get started Kentucky's a wonderful resource, the best thing that I did, I did two great things. One is one of my very first hires after Jay was the person who would maintain our plant manager so that he was involved with the construction and every aspect of planning and knew where every pipe was going. And I think that's something that's overlooked by a lot of people is is is you know, is the the guts and the fabric and the the core and the maintenance of your of a very complex manufacturing plant. I knew enough to know to hire a great person who's with us Dean today and he does a super job. 33:52 Dean was actually helping us earlier trying to get the AC turned off. 33:56 He knows that he knows everything. He knows where all the skeletons are, but I mean he knows where every valve is in every pipe and he was part of the construction crew for the year and a half and the whole thing was money very well spent. Second thing I did was found Larry Ebersole, who's the maybe the most important distiller of American history that many people have never heard of. And Larry was the plant manager at Sega drums as you well know, Kenny, for 25 plus years, the head distiller I misspoke, the head distiller at sea drums, and he's the guy that invented the famous 95 five, right recipe that, you know, right? I know what it is, but it used to be, it's more of what is seen on the shelf, and it's wonderful juice and Larry is a brand bread distiller and a wonderful human being. I count him as a good friend, and he was newly retired and living in Hebrew one which is near the Cincinnati airport, which is in Kentucky, and so he's only like 20 miles away, and was kind of pointing it turned out being a consultant. So didn't know how to get started at it is in his backyard it was Yeah, as easy for eight. And so we are a wonderful thing. So he really threw himself into it. best thing I ever did. And with Larry being involved from the very beginning, we knew we would construct and we did construct a very efficient a very, very well thought through distillery and not make some of the mistakes that are easy to make. And secondly, and perhaps in the long run more definitely more important in the long run with Larry on board as our consulting master distiller he would train my Distilling Team which gave me the freedom to pick with his approval, who would be on that steering team and I very deliberately with Jays advice in this regard to we did not go to Maker's Mark or heaven hill or four roses and higher way and assistant Stiller, which is the standard procedure because in the end, distillers do the same thing day after day and forgive me I don't mean to ruffle any feathers traditionally, at least they don't tend to be a very imaginative lot. 36:03 Don't get me Don't break. What's more, don't don't fix what's not broken. 36:07 People want to you want Maker's Mark, you don't want Maker's Mark with cream cheese on it, you know, it's, it's, it's appropriate and it's what they're the corporation's want. So if we hired someone from Maker's Mark, we'd end up with Maker's Mark north. And in truth, that's what happens, you know, when, when folks go from disorder to story, so what I knew and with Jace help, I knew I wouldn't have known this on my own. And Larry to fermentation is the key and distillers tend to poo poo. Traditional distillers tend to poo poo poo, fermentation, they don't pay that much attention to it. But fermentation if you don't have a great fermentation, you're not going to end up with great whiskey in the end. The people the folks that really understand this are brewers 36:52 absolutely their people, they know what they're Do they know. So 36:55 we deliberately went out and hired a fantastic Brewer in this case. It was pretty Ryan sprints who will absolutely be known if he's not already to so many people as a great young distiller and will truly be in the Hall of Fame someday. And Brian had been a small, small Brewer with a microbrewery in Cincinnati and for about eight years had worked at Sam Adams and I'm not sure how many people know that Sam Adams is brewed in Cincinnati not in Boston. 37:23 Obviously I'm learning something today and 37:24 it is it's the old beautiful plant and 95% of Sam Adams is burden sensing that 37:29 now that name I've heard of the beautiful because it's like a Northern Kentucky kind of 37:32 well Cincinnati Cincinnati kind of it but but the plant was closed and And anyway, so Sam Adams owns it. So he worked for Sam Adams over there and a serious industrial plant. So he brought to us when I hired him and he wanted out because he's not a corporate kind of guy and he wanted to get back into you know, brewing so to speak, or, you know, the guts of doing it not just the big industrial and it was a unionized plan is to this day, unionized by anyone at different scale. So we found, you know, we know so many people in Kentucky and Cincinnati we found Brian and recruited him one very hard, eager to come in here to take the challenge when he saw how real we were, and to be part of a startup. And he just brought that fantastic imagination and knowledge of fermentation and an understanding of grains and malts that traditional distillers are just very linear and very blinders on 38:26 dance. So get your percentages, you're throwing your yeast. 38:30 Yeah, see you in a few days. Let's see. Yeah, well, every day do it every day and they make some great whiskey at all these heritage distilleries Believe me, I'm totally understand that. But we wanted to do a little riff or our own little tweaks and things. And with Larry able to train. It gave us the freedom to assemble that team, so no one in the distillery other than Larry had ever worked into this story before, but with Larry there, we did it as a team and we have a fantastic group of Six distillers today they're all career. They're all doing a super job. And Larry is he trained them, he stepped back. And that's just he's he was. He's our founding father in many ways. And Larry was very, is obviously very rice centric. It was the 95 five, right? He's so proud of and so and we happen to fit our tastes as well. So New Earth is truly a rice centric distillery. And I will, I've said this many times, we make fantastic bourbon. But I think our long term reputation becoming one of the great small distilleries of the world will have a lot to do with, with rise and rise of fence, interesting niche that I think we can play in that sandlot very, very well and be extremely well known around the world for our rye. And maybe stay a little bit away from the great heritage global distilleries you know in the future because you're we're all going to need a niche. 39:56 So did Larry help you out with choosing the mash bills as well for everything you're doing or is that more of a consensus from the group? There are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever. So how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? Rock house whiskey club, it's a whiskey the Month Club and they are on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer rock houses box shipped out every two months to 40 states and rackhouse's October box there featuring a distillery with an interesting ingredient water from the Bull Run watershed that has been protected by Congress since the 1870s. Rock house whiskey club is shipping up two bottles for the Bull Run distilling company out of Portland, Oregon, including a Pino North finished American whiskey, go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out, and try some for yourself. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. To 91 Colorado whiskey aims to create a one of a kind bold and beautiful Colorado whiskey rugged refined, rebellious distillery to 91 is an award winning small batch whiskey distillery, located in Colorado Springs Colorado. Nestled in the shadow of Pikes Peak, owner and founding distiller Michael Myers grew up on the family farms in Georgia and Tennessee, across the country side defined by rolling hills, horses and whiskey. He set out to create a flagship whiskey that evoke the Wild West. A cowboy walk into a bar saying, Give me a whiskey and the bartender slamming down a bottle, a bottle of 291 Colorado whiskey, find a bottle near you at 291 Colorado whiskey calm. Write it like you stole it, drink it like you own it. Live fast. Drink responsibly. So did Larry help you out with choosing the mash bills as well for everything you're doing? Or is that more of a consensus from the group? 41:50 Larry was the leader of making those decisions, but it was it was part of the education of the Distilling Team to with jasmine. So yes, very much our Leader of the committee, if you will, that originally picked our Nashville's now. It's taken over by our Distilling Team and Brian now galera likes to come and taste and and offer some thoughts if we run into something new every now and then that's really past our abilities. We call her and he, you know, he really thinks very fondly of us. And we were his first client and, and I think he's enjoying our growth and, and is very optimistic about our future. So 42:27 well before we start talking about you know a lot about your bourbon because I know you're doing crazy stuff with barrels and types of grains and malts and stuff like that. Let's talk about the okay, because I know you're sourcing at one point, what was the what was the gist? I mean, that's the thought process that a lot of startups go through and they think, Okay, well, let's get money rolling in. We'll buy some barrels will bottle it up. And that'll be a way to kind of build some revenue. Is that was that your thought process going into it as well? No. So least you're frank about. 42:57 Always be frank. I mean, the nice thing is you're dealing with The owner I don't have any, anybody I have to answer to and I'm getting older. So I'm pretty, pretty straightforward. Know, the answer was we were going for quality and we knew I mean, remember I you know, I own the largest liquor store in the United States I was the spirits buyer, I, I saw the cannery I saw the dishonesty of the, of the brown goods business I, I hated all of it and saw it from the beginning that the not disclosing not disclosing your source charging too much, you know, in a pretty perfume bottle for one year old whiskey and, and, you know, hurting the reputation of all craft distilleries, I saw all the bad things that have happened and continue to happen in this industry. So we wanted no part of it. That's not how you build a great small the story of the world. So from the beginning, we were always going to be transparent and incredibly open with everyone about everything we did. I had fortuitously bought a J's urging 350 barrels From MCP years couple years before we even thought about the distillery concept Oh, wow. So I had I hit Yeah, let's just you know, we'll bottle this someday for the party source. And so I you know, I wish of course I bought thousands. I hate to tell you they were like, I really hate to say this, they were like $375 a barrel. Oh 44:20 man. And you know, we've seen a in the price list now, 44:24 thousands and thousands of dollars if you could even get them and they were already like three years old when I bought them. So, fortuitously I had those barrels and we never bought any other barrels. So it's only 350 and the idea of having those barrels and okay i, we deliberately released it very, very slowly. The idea was just to have some bourbon in the distillery a good bourbon, because it's it's marketing and brand building. People come to this story, like new f1 it's two years old. They know intellectually that were too young to have great whiskey, but they still want to taste great whiskey. They still think you should have a final bourbon sitting around. So we did. And we were very clear it was okay i that we sourced, it wasn't ours, we just bottled it, dumped it and bottled it. And we deliberately rationed it out to last until our bourbon was available. And then we always intended and we did kill the brand because we we don't want to have anything to do with source goods. So it served its purpose extremely well. And then as you well know, Kenny, in the end, when it was 12 years old, it was a terrific value. And when people heard that it was ending, you know, became a cult item and they went crazy about it and it's still a little bit of one of those legendary things, but the purpose is never to have any source goods and that the sales of 300 or so barrels you know, for the size of new riff never moved the needle as far as helping us to survive. We we survived on my proceeds from the party source and on contract is still in for until we had our own whiskey to sell 46:00 Yeah, absolutely. So contract distilling is it's still a part of what your your daily businesses diminishing 46:03 all the time that the idea of the contract is still in was to survive. Until we became till whiskey could be four or five years old, serve that purpose, it was maybe about 45% of our budget and allowed us to be completely full which distillery in production, the story is much better when it's running, you know, at full steam, then turn it on and turn it off the equipment and so forth. So it serves that purpose. And gradually we're we're getting out of the, as we can afford to we're getting out of the contract distilling and taking back all those barrels for our own. You know, stock 46:39 your own aging and everything like that. 46:41 Yeah, we're doing a little bit and we'll do less every year. 46:44 So four years was kind of your your mark, when when new riffs started coming out. Was it for because you felt like it was ready? Or was it for because you said I think this is to the point where we don't have to worry about like, at this point, we don't to worry about putting age statements on the bottle. By TTD law so what was the what was the idea on for there? And were you nervous? 47:06 Yes, I was nervous. Of course. 47:09 JS man is the answer. JA again as our co founder and fantastic and brings that knowledge and Jays idea which I bought into and the rest of the team did from the beginning was let's not release any whiskey till it can be bottled in bond Jays, a historian and he's a lover things past very, very smart about the future too, of course, and, and current distilling, but felt that the, you know, years ago he felt that the bottled in Bond was was right for revival and that the original, the first federal law about food and drug purity United States was about alcohol in 1897, the bottled in Bond Act and Jay felt that the incipient incipient revival bottled in Bond was a fantastic movement and we wanted to be very much a family Remember that so we always intended to wait to be at least four years old. And then along the way we were very, very pleased with Larry results helped to, to be tasting things as you go along and things were moving Well, we liked our juice. We liked the way it was aging. So along the way we realized that getting to be at least four years ago, we were going to have a very credible whiskey out there. And I wanted to and I made sure that it was at a very credible and easygoing price because again, as a retailer, I understood marketing and sales and pricing, and wanted our whiskey to come out at a premium level and pricing, which you deserve this and also is a brand marker, but wanted to always make it an appropriate fair price. One, one click above the the global heritage companies, but not not at the kind of pricing that I've always found repugnant as a retailer and I certainly did as a consumer as well. 48:54 And not only that, as I mean, you come out with this the four year old product in right away. It started It's like kind of taking over a lot of the bourbon culture and the bourbon. mindshare, because everybody's amazed at the taste of a four year old product I don't think there's a lot of or really there's any other product out there today that can really say that it it competes of what new roof does at its at its age, like is there something that you can say that you can attribute that to? Sure or weapon of their sprinkled dust that you're putting? 49:25 sprinkle dust is the water? Yeah, it really is Kenny and and that's a nice story too. Because we first started when we plan and we're very close to breaking ground on the distillery we didn't know about our water source, our water source turned out to be an aquifer the high river aquifer 100 feet under under the distillery property and we didn't know about it when we first started planning but along the way someone said something to Jay you know you know there's there's a lot of water you guys gonna do a well and Jay ran with it. He's smart enough to listen and think you know and that's Jays personality. I mean he's a scientist and interested in everything and he thought I'm going to find out what the heck's under us. And we did we did we ran a test well, and then worked with the University of Kentucky to to analyze and understand what was going on underneath us. So geologically, it was just turned out to be a bonanza. Because the the aquifer and brief and I'm no stem person myself, so forgive me. But the aquifer essentially is a almost inexhaustible pool of water under the far northern part of Northern Kentucky, and it's created because the glacier stopped and created the Ohio River and created the hills of Cincinnati. That geologic force continues to the state of pump want to push water under the Ohio River, and it's going through sand silt, and guess what limestone and then Northern Kentucky from our site right on the river. You go straight up hills to go into southern can lucky to get away from Northern Kentucky. So as you go south, it's going up here. So we're in a bowl and all and as you look and you see the highways and the Brock along the highways, where they do the cuts and the passes and so forth, it's all limestone rock. So it's all coming from two directions and settling. And it's under us in this magnificent huge aquifer under our feet. And it turned out we did all the testing, and it came in and it's magnificent limestone filter, naturally filtered water. It's it had no lead, which is you know, the great thing. It's high calcium from the limestone, very high mineral content, water, and it's 58 degrees year round. So we don't have to have a cooling tower. We're a very environmentally healthy and successful distillery and that water that putting that mineral water right into our mash bill, and you can drink it, we've all drunk it's just hard water. hard water tastes like crap. But it's great for to still it. And I would contend and obviously if someone's going to jump up out of this microphone Want to choke me but I believe it or not, Northern Kentucky new roof has the best water in Kentucky for distilling because the fact of the matter that the marketing people don't want you to know is that almost every other and perhaps every other significantly sized distillery in the state of Kentucky uses city water or river water and then they filter the hell out of it turned it into our water so they're putting into their mash bills whatever they're tell showing you in your advertising, 52:30 you know, whether it's coming from some sort of wheel that's spinning in 52:34 a lake or something absolutely in this wonderful spring and all that which long ago they outgrew you know the whole thing. But you know mean Buffalo Trace Polson the Kentucky River you know, the brown Forman polls for local municipal water I can go on and on and on and i'm not i'm not slamming them in any way they make fantastic whiskey. But we are bringing a natural high mineral content, awesome water into our message. Bill and God, darn it, I think that's when you only have like three ingredients going into your mash bill and one of them changes dramatically. That means something and then you layer on that Kenny, you know the the fact that we're all about quality at every turn and you know the the corn comes from a family farm the same one that for roses uses in Indiana and we can go on and on and on we we come off the still at less than the maximum we go into the barrel at 110. Instead of the legal maximum 125 we use 18 and 24 months aged in oak staves instead of the standard, you know, barrel at $100 more a barrel than other people. We go on and on and on. It's all about quality at every turn. But it starts with that water. So there are very good reasons. It's not by chance that our four year old thank you for saying so i think is a very good product. And you're going to want to get to this it's going to be fantastic when it's seven eight and 10 53:54 Oh yeah, that's what we'll save that here for a second because I kind of want to know your your plans for the future with that, but You know, back to this, you know, let's let's rewind it back another 1520 years or maybe 25 years, when you bought the location of the party source was it? You look at it now like just dumb luck. 54:11 Yeah, we bought the land and the distillery for your listeners that don't know, the distillery is right in front of the party source and we're right on right on the river. Across from Cincinnati, you can't get any closer to Cincinnati. But that was the point of the retail store, because Ohio had state stores and 80% or more of our customers came from Ohio. And that's why the party source grew to be such a large store. It's a it's a natural for Northern Kentucky but it's because we had all of Cincinnati coming to us so and then when I wanted to do the distillery the original plan was just Gee, this is a nice, I own I own some property. And that's another story too. I actually had to take out a levee and build a wall, a flood wall and so forth. million dollar flood wall in order to get more property. But the point was, I thought it'd be a great location. Very well known right in front of the source and there was a symbiotic symbiotic relationship you know people could come on a tour to see us and then walk into this fantastic whiskey store and shop and it's turned out to be like that but dumb luck in terms of the water absolutely dumb luck 55:14 it's just like being in Texas and somebody knock on your door me like oil in your backyard we'd 55:18 like to buy your land Yeah, and you just scratch under your armpits and go all the way down 55:25 so let's talk a bit about like the little bit of future state right because Sure, today we there's a lot of stuff out there it's a lot of for your product. There's people like myself we go we do barrel pics here. It's a four year product. I know that a lot of people we love it as is. However there's always this can't wait until it's six it's eight to 10 years so kind of talk about what your your future plans are to kind of stocks in these barrels. Sure. 55:52 Yeah, it's been it's been a but but first of all, it is a great ride and the four year of the bottle and bond is a wonderful product and will never release any plans. product from our distillery any whiskey that's less than bottled in bond for a year. And, and, and, and hundred proof and or it'll be barrel proof every one of the two. So, and that's why we've been and that's why we're always be because we think that's, we think that's the highest quality expression and that's what we're all about to, to hopefully become one of the great small distilleries of the world. Which by the way, even if we fall short, hey, it's great. I mean, life should be about lofty goals and and trying your damn this and, you know, if we fall short, and you know, we're not quite there. It still is a worthy endeavor. But signs are decent that we might, we've taken a few steps in that direction and we might just get there and 10 or 12 years in some form of recognition from the public and writers in our own self assessment, but 56:48 you really don't want to retire. Do you? 56:50 Know I actually, I'd like to stick around. honest truth is I'd like to stick around long enough in an extremely active role will stay a family business by In the business, everybody here is career we're not selling out, we're not going, we have no interest in one of the big boys buying a minority share, we're surviving. We're getting through the roughest part right now, economically, and we're going to stay 100% independent, because that's really the only way you can really achieve greatness is having incredibly long term thinking, and just be totally disinterested in short term results. So, and having that freedom of without any corporate decision making because whatever anyone says, nothing will change, we're going to buy you out and nothing's going to change. None of your people are going to change everything to say, everything's different a year later. We all know it. It's just it's a fact out there. So we're going to stay independent. And, and that's very important. So we've taken some steps. I mean, I think the fact Kenny, that I'm sure you're aware, we went out to our very first competition we ever went to, because again, why go to all these little county fairs or whatever, just so you can say, award winning, nobody. It doesn't mean anything to the like your listeners. And there's the People that we really care about that will establish our reputation. So we waited. We think like a lot of people that the San Francisco International spirits competition is the main spirits competition. It's an arguable issue but certainly one of the top couple we think it's the 58:15 you came on with a few medals from 58:17 it. Well, the thing is, we submitted all five of the products, we make three whiskeys and two gins and all five of them one double goal. You know, it's unheard of. 58:28 It's It's like going to the Olympics and just like it's 58:30 crazy. I mean, let's put it in context. And, and I'll abstract this real fast and backpedal. But you know, this year factually, Buffalo Trace submitted 21 entries and got seven double goals, numerous submitted five inches and got five double gold. We are not the equivalent above Buffalo Trace far better to story. You know, and they are, in my opinion, the best in the business. But the thing is, we've taken a step toward that goal. We you know, so We feel very encouraged to have some exterior validation. And it's so we're not just in a circle, you know, talking to each other about these things. So anyway, we started to take a step now to get back and sorry that sometimes I run on but it's a very passionate subject. We know to put up the very best whiskey that we can and to really have a very high world reputation as good as our four year old is and it's fairly priced as we will always keep it. We have to have older whiskey. So we've this year, I mean, it's all it gets back to a matrix of economics. Our first year of release, we held back only we held back 20% of everything we make to get older. Next year, we're budgeted for 33 a full third of everything we make, to get older. And what I will say now, which is actually the first time I've ever seen this public So it's a credit to the the reach that that that you guys have and the the interest in the students of your listeners, we're actually going to do a small expansion of the distillery. And we'll get back to that if you want. But the point that I want to make right now is the only purpose of that expansion is not to make more four year old or not to make some more money in the short run. It's to have older whiskey and a lot of it. So we are going to make a stand toward older whiskeys will always have a great four year old bottled in bond product at an extremely fair price. It may not go up in price for 10 years, stay at $40 fine with me. And then eventually we'll have a very fairly priced will have older whiskies and personally we'll see if things change. I'm all for age statements. I think again and and this is really where the future of new roof is going to be his older whiskies a great entry level that is fantastic. For cocktails and it's just fantastic for for sipping on without talking about it. But it'll be the seven year old eight year old, maybe 10 year old and whatever in very in everything that we make getting older that will put us on the map and will really I think make us proud and I think your listeners are going to really want to have someday we're going to try and have enough of it that it's not this high cult high scarcity kind of item I'm not saying that it'll be on a shelf but we want to have a lot more out there you know thousands of cases of older whiskey and not just dribble it out to people 1:01:35 makes more people are makes more sense people to start joining the Rangers program then so they get those was inside. 1:01:41 The Rangers program is ended 1:01:42 but the whistle as it I didn't know that. 1:0

Old Fashioned, Manhattan, Gold Rush, Seelbach, Pink Lady. These are all names we associate with standard cocktail menus. Today, we invite Molly Wellmann, owner of Japp's, and Bill Whitlow, owner of Rich's Proper, to look at the influence bourbon has had on the bartending culture and when should you use a particular bourbon in a staple cocktail. We then examine the changes of the season and how tastes change between having something refreshing to dark and oaky. It’s all about cocktails for the right occasion. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at UofL.me/pursuespirits. At Barrell Craft Spirits, they spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. Joe and Tripp meticulously sample every barrel to make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. The 2019 Kentucky’s Edge Bourbon Conference & Festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4th & 5th at venues throughout Covington and Newport, Kentucky. Find out more at KentuckysEdge.com. Show Notes: Tom Bulleit steps back: https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article234080232.html, https://www.just-drinks.com/news/diageos-bulleit-bourbon-founder-steps-back-as-abuse-claims-intensify_id129116.aspx, https://www.hollisbofficial.com/ Castle and Key spillage: https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article234080232.html Willett Distillery Barrel Pick: https://www.patreon.com/posts/29294662 This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the news of the day. Tell us about your journey into spirits. Was there a moment when you saw bourbon become a staple behind the bar? How do you study the history of a cocktail? Tell us about the Gin Ricky. What are good cocktails for Summer? What are the ingredients in your favorite cocktails? What is a Clover Club? What is a Gold Rush and Brown Derby cocktail? What are good cocktails for Fall? What is a gateway cocktail to get someone into bourbon? What ingredients go in a Seelbach? Is it hard to go to other bars and witness bartenders making cocktails improperly? Let's talk about bourbon slushes. What do you think of barrel aged cocktails? What style of bourbon works well in certain cocktails? What's the ultimate mixing bourbon? What do you think about using allocated bourbon in a cocktail? Is there a cocktail to make lower end whiskey taste better? How do you coverup or reduce negative notes in younger bourbons? What do you think of Mint Juleps? What's a good Winter cocktail? What about vodka cocktails? How do you make an Old Fashioned? What proof bourbon do you use in your cocktails? 0:00 Everybody Are you interested in looking at the distilling process and pairing that with key business knowledge such as finance, marketing and operations, then you should check out the online distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville. It's an online program. It can be completed in as little as 15 weeks. It's taught by both of you have all business faculty and corporate fellows. So you're getting real experience from real experts at the most renowned distilleries, companies and startups in the distilling industry. And all that's required is a bachelor's degree. Go to business.louisville.edu slash online spirits. 0:35 Got all for being out of town. And then you know, my 30th anniversary of Booker's is like down here. It's like, you drink straight from the bottom right now I've been making whiskey sours with it. 0:48 Been there 1:01 Everyone it is Episode 215 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And as usual, we've got a little bit of news to run through. For anyone that has been paying attention to the bourbon scene and social media for the past two years, you may have been seeing some turmoil within the bullet family. Tom bullets daughter Hollis b worth has made numerous public claims about her father being homophobic and it led to her separation with theology, where she felt she wasn't being compensated properly for helping build the brand. This week the Herald Leader at Kentucky com broke the news that Tom bullet has now taken a step back as the face the company and will not be representing the brand after New claims have emerged of sexual abuse and pedophilia by his daughter Hollis. On August 13. Paula's told her story on Hollis be official calm that her father has been protected from Dr. ZO for these crimes. A spokesperson for Dr. Joe said the company took worth his claims about her father very seriously and began an internal 1:59 investigation after receiving a letter stating all this from her attorney, the audio found no indication that anyone at the audio has been made previously aware of such claims. According to a spokesperson for the company. In an interview, Tom bulleit said the accusations are terrible, they're false and they need to be addressed and they are just drinks calm has reported a resolution was reached at the start of 2018, which saw worth receive a payment of around $1.2 million. corresponding the amount Dr. Sue says she would have received had her contract been renewed equal to the five year deal as well as unpaid overtime. You can read more about this story from the Herald Leader and just drink calm with the link in our show notes. Castle and key distillery has discharged an unknown quantity of untreated wastewater last Thursday August 15 into Glens Creek, killing an unknown number of fish and this was all reported by state environmental officials. Castle and key told the investigators 3:00 Its water treatment system had failed sending untreated oxygen depleting waste directly into the creek. The discharge was stopped around four o'clock pm, about two hours after the state officials received report. lab results are pending on the affected Creek water. Potential penalties could reach $25,000 per violation per day. But the state won't decide a penalty until the case can actually meet with the company and determine more about what happened. Castle and key confirm the incentive in a statement that they had issued. So those are kind of grim, but let's kind of switch it up a little bit and talk about something positive because this week's we selected not one but two barrels at will at distillery that will be bottled as well at family estate. And this is just on the heels of last week's announcement saying that we have two barrels that will be bottled as pursuit series. It was another hot Kentucky date reaching around 96 degrees but we powered through to select one bourbon and one ride. Central Kentucky tours was our ride and took us from 4:00 lovin to the Willett campus. The group asked to start off slow and build up during our tasting. So we tried 207 proof entry, high corn mash bills. Then this was a little bit lightened body the first one so drew tapped into a second barrel that was on the other side of the warehouse that had a lot more of the oak influence because it sat where the sun was just beating down on it. We then headed over to another floor to try the weeded mash bill. And the third barrel was something special because it didn't have a sweet taste that you would expect Instead, it was kind of spicy, come to find out that barrel used 25% of a ride back set to its sour mash process. We are unsure if we were able to find another barrel is unique is that but we pressed on, we headed out to the fifth floor where it was easily 110 degrees. We got a poor of the OG mash bill and then headed back down to the fourth floor to cool off. This bourbon just had the depth and the punch that you would expect from a Willett family state 125% 5:00 Entry just gave way to loads of flavors and oak tannins. It was a crowd favorite. After that was selected that we move on to the rise where we came away with a fantastic one after only trying three. It was a high rye rye mash bill and will be seven years old when bottle. These will all be available to our Patreon community here in just a few months. Thank you to Willett distillery and drew for hosting us. Thank you to Central Kentucky tours for hauling us around and big things to keg and bottle for making this barrel selection available to us. Learn more about Central Kentucky tours and keg and bottle with the links in our show notes. today's podcast is all about the cocktail. For myself. I love cocktails, especially when I go out to dinner because being a fluent bourbon drinker, you know what it costs for some basic Bourbons on that back wall. So instead, I like to take in the drink culture and try something new that may only be available to that particular restaurant. And the bourbon culture has been getting a big boost from bartenders. 5:59 Creating fantastic concoctions. And that's why we invited Molly Wellmann and Bill Whitlow to come on the show. As we start winding down summer and heading into fall, you're going to get a better understanding of a bartenders mindset and how cocktails change in the menu. And if you got a favorite cocktail during a specific season, let's hear the comments on YouTube or Facebook. Now, let's get on with the show. Here's Joe from barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 6:28 It's Joe from barrell bourbon, myself and our master distiller a trip Simpson spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. We meticulously sample every barrel and make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. Find out more at barrel bourbon calm. I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char 2019 has been a very bad year for whiskey, not from a sales perspective or even a quality angle. Actually, domestic sales are nice, and I've tasted a lot of great new releases. I'm speaking about the news from the international terrorists crossing distillers. 6:59 Millions to the bulleit family drama that led to Tom bulleit stepping down whiskies been a daily soap opera this year finding itself trending for all the wrong reasons. For example, last week video surfaced of MMA star Conor McGregor pouring shots for folks at a Dublin bar. The crowd skewed older and didn't really seem to be into the celebrity when Connor offered shots of his proper 12 whiskey. One man hunkered over the bar didn't want one or said something to Connor. I don't know what really happened, but like a cobra striking McGregor's fist hit the side of the man's head. It happened so fast that I missed the punch and wouldn't have seen it if TMC didn't zoom in and slow motion it indeed. McGregor is a professional fighter and is lightning quick, but he punched an old man over a dispute with his whiskey. That's a true turd move. But for me, the story isn't just about McGregor. It's the fact somebody partnered with him knowing of the potential 8:00 consequences and put whiskey in the bottle he represented proper 12 is awful, by the way, and nobody really viewed McGregor's incident as a whiskey story. Rather, it's a celebrity story. But for those of us who cover whiskey professionally, we often get pulled into covering these things and it takes away the romance and the fun of a good drink. And I hate it. I can pinpoint the exact moment when my bourbon innocence was lost when covering the theft of the Pappy Van Winkle and wild turkey bottles and barrels. A few years ago, I studied the police reports and saw that one of the arrested persons was suspected of possessing child pornography. Up until that point, even covering the illegal activity surrounding whiskey was fun. After that, I realized that not even our beloved spirit is protected from shit bags. And I often finally look back to the moment just before I learned the evils of some when whiskey was just about the grains, water yeast stills barrels 9:00 warehouses. How great it would be where I was just talking about the whiskey. Instead, we have the news of the day. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, did you know i curated a super cool auction for the speed museum? It's September 19, and called the art of bourbon. Learn more at speed museum.org that's speed museum.org Until next week, cheers. 9:29 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon for it and Kenny here making the trek to Northern Kentucky in the Covington area at a I don't know this is pretty fancy place. I'm surprised they haven't kicked us out yet. Yeah, this is like the the castle of the North for for Kentucky. So Northern Kentucky. We are with the queen of the North. So 9:52 it will introduce them in here in a second. But I mean, we're at the MIT club. I mean, I was just I was walking in I was like, usually kick people out like me in here. So it's 10:00 Well and normally I'm here routing Normally I'm dress for a place like this but not today. Not today no beach shirt hat and 10:09 socks I wore yesterday that you go on a vacation sometimes you kind of get into that mood you know actually no it's matter. 10:17 We had some some work done in the house today and I don't dress up for the repair man. 10:24 They don't get the they don't get the Sundays. They don't get the good Ascot. But today we're going to be talking about cocktails. And this is a really This was also a a listener inspired idea. Because bourbon is really starting to come in and be a big contributor to the cocktail culture. It You know, there's you talk to any distillery, they say, oh, like it's all about drinking a neat mixing of the cocktail. It's great for this and this and this. And it's also inspired, you know, a revolution of things that we've seen also with inside of pop culture with Manhattans and old fashions that have 11:00 Really kind of skyrocketed as some of the premier cocktails that are out there that are some are all whiskey focused. Yeah, I mean, this story is about, you know, 15 years old. But what it started to change in the evolution of bourbon cocktails is that people aren't trying to force it anymore in particular like ice for a long time. You saw people trying to create like a bourbon equivalent to the Margarita like that, you know, they don't have bourbon readers even had a bourbon Rita. It's it's not you can't 11:32 you know, so you're starting to see like true. 11:36 You know, people like focus more on bourbon that complements it that people are not trying to force it to be something it's not in bourbon and my opinion is not the most mixable spirit. You know, you definitely have some, you, you can't go everywhere with it. It's very finite. And that's one of the reasons why bourbon really struggled in the 60s was because they 12:00 We're trying to get people to mix it like they mix vodka. So they were they were promoting bourbon and orange juice, which did not really appeal to that audience. I don't think it appeals today now. So so the I think finally for the first time, 12:18 at least from what I've studied in the history of bourbon, I think we have finally found Bourbons place and the growth of the cocktail bar. And that's a great way to kind of introduce both our guests because both of our guests are really pioneering and spearheading a lot of the the cocktail culture around this area and around the United States as well. So today on the show, we have Molly Wellman. Molly is the owner of objects as well as Molly's brands and we've got bill Whitlow of riches proper in the cocktail creative consulting, so Molly and Bill, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. So before we kick it off and talk about cocktails, kind of talk about your journey into spirits. Like how did it happen? 13:00 Because I'm sure that there's always always some good story behind this. Take it away You go first. 13:06 It's mine. I feel like mine's a little typical. I've been bartending for around 20 years, but for the longest time I was swinging out by visors and mega bombs and ski with steak houses with muddled old fashions and shakin Manhattan's and it's kind of what we did. 13:24 What until behind the bar for about probably 10 years before I went to New Orleans and had a size rack at you know, down in New Orleans at their moms. We had a real cocktail down there for a music festival and kind of opened my eyes a bit. And then when I moved to Louisville and started managing the bar at the seal Bach hotel, really got the chance to play around with like a real chef. Bobby Benjamin was a chef Tom and really get to play around with flavors and actually have a whole bar full of anything we wanted. We were a hotel that did tons of money, they didn't care what I bought, and they did 14:00 care what I wasted. So that was the first time I really got a chance to do whatever I wanted and play around. And that gave me a chance to do a lot of self discovery as well as learning from an amazing chef. Then when I went over into managing over at crows and mobile, 14:17 worked with a guy named Jackie from old force or Jackie's I can never heard of her. She taught me a lot about technique because I never I didn't take you know, teach myself that. And she taught me really how to start how to shake your proper dilution, things like that. And then, when I went on with a company called Goodfellas, pizzeria for a number of years, they kind of gave me complete autonomy. Let me kind of just run with it. And we were able to set up some really cool things there and just have a lot of fun with a lot of cocktails and expand past just the bourbon that they're known for, but also play around in all kinds of different realms. And 14:53 now here, we're going our own restaurant, MIMO life and yeah, play around and have more fun. Well, that's awesome. So it was 15:00 I know you'd mentioned your time down on Bourbon Street. You know, we all love New Orleans, maybe for different reasons than just the cocktails, but it's on the moves. It's a 15:10 Party City. But it was there a pivotal moment when you started seeing like bourbon become a key staple behind the bar. 15:20 Yes, before North when I started bartending, we were pretty high volume restaurant and nicer restaurant in town in Lexington. And we had four Bourbons behind behind the bar. And then I remember when I was at another Steakhouse within the same company, we had like 10 Bourbons behind the bar that was like 2003. And then like a year or two later, we expanded to like 20 Bourbons behind the bar and we got this thing called a lot be and I couldn't understand why, you know, when we sold out of it, that we weren't allowed to get any more I was like, so I'm going to just order more. We just need more of it before drinking it order. It was it was coming awakening, as I saw that growth and then 16:00 grew exponentially from there. Absolutely. Molly, let's hear your your coming of age tale here. Now I, you know, it's funny, I worked in high end retail forever. I worked I lived in San Francisco. And then I got into the service industry, I got kind of thrown behind the bar. And the only thing I knew how to make was in Manhattan, because I drank them all the time, because I was in high end retail. And that's the only thing that I like, saved me. Anyway, when I throw it in, I was like, just push the Manhattans. It's the only thing I had to make. But I grew, you know, I learned how to make different drinks and stuff, not not to the craft and classic cocktails that 16:39 I've known for now. But 16:42 when I moved back to Cincinnati, in like, 10 years ago, I started this place called chalk. Right? Kind of like right over there. 16:50 And they were like, We need somebody who can do craft and classic cocktails. I'm like, Oh, I could totally do that. I had no idea. But I went home, googled it and I fell down the rabbit hole and that was it. 17:00 I loved every bit of it. I studied, I read every old cocktail book I get my hands on. I love the idea that I love the thing that every single drink seemed to have a story. And I loved that I could, you know, learn history through cocktails. I just loved it. So 17:19 I've I've never looked back. So it's been 11 years now that I've been doing craft and classic cocktails. And I love studying I'm still I love writing about them. I love 17:31 still entertaining people behind the bar. You know, they get a drink, they get a story with it. It's like my favorite thing. What kind of stuff can you study with a cocktail? I mean, you said you that you study me? Like what? What kind of, I mean, is it like a history based? Is it just kind of knowing where the origins of it like what kind of talk about that? Kind of the origins? It's kind of it's almost like a treasure hunt. So I find it you know, I looked through old cocktail books from over 100 years ago. I love to read the first part of there's something about like, how 17:59 Baraka 18:00 tenders really took this job so seriously, you know, it was such a 18:06 every aspect of the job is like laid out in the first, you know, folks the technique or the first part, you know, part of the cocktails, the techniques, the glassware, the ingredients that were used, you know, it's fascinating, you know, it really is, it's, it's the same but different than it is now, you know, and then going through some of the cocktail, some of them are boring. And you're like, well, that's exactly the same as this one except the Ito the measurements are a little different. 18:31 But then you come upon when you're like, Oh, that sounds so interesting. Why would I think about that, you know? And then I want to know everything about it, or it has a weird name and like, Well, why did they call it this? You know, I want to know, so then I start digging, and I start looking through your it's amazing, like all these different 18:48 resources, you can find that you can find the stories where this cocktail came from, or kind of get an idea of where in history and why they were drinking this certain cocktail. Does that make sense? Yeah, and one, one 19:00 story that we've we had a fun conversation about one time what was the Ricky yeah and like how that how the regular regularly this revived ever seen the movie get him to the creek Yes Yes What's a Jeffrey yeah 19:15 what's not going on that 19:18 share share with the audience this this is an example of of like how cool like cocktail history can be Molly share with us the story of the of the gin Ricky's and the Ricky. So the gin Ricky is really interesting one, there was a guy named Joe, Ricky, he was a veteran of the Civil War. And he was in Washington, you know, Washington DC, and he would go and he would drink every night at this bar called shoemakers, which isn't around anymore. But he had this idea like he had this idea of being healthy, you know, and he felt that sugar and sweet things would affect his his blood and make him sick, so he didn't like anything sweet. So the original 20:00 Ricky was not made with jet it was actually made with rye, rye and lime juice. He squeeze a half a lime in a glass drop in the Rhine, and then fill it with rye. It's kind of really disgusting with the right. Cassidy and then eventually it turned to, you know, to gin which is a lot better ice and then soda water on top and that's adyen Ricky and it has no sugar in it whatsoever. Now, the gin Ricky there's different kinds of gin. So the gin Ricky would usually always be made with an old Tom gin, which was sweetened gin, which is weird because he thought that sugar but I guess that didn't count with the old Thompson. But yeah, that's the Rickey pretty much in a nutshell. Let's see that see the the story there is 20:43 a bartender you know, was very focused on his health. And that, you know, he creates an entire style of cocktails. And oh, by the way, where he's, you know, his bar. He's probably influencing a lot of very important people for the time in DC. So yeah, 21:00 He actually wasn't a bartender. He was a he was a lobbyist. And he got the bartender at shoemakers to make this for him. So, I mean, but still to this day people in Washington DC drink gin Ricky's, it's like the best summer drink in Washington DC 21:14 kind of story. And we're already kind of leading on to the what we were talking about. It was like this is cocktails for the right occasion. And so you're talking about the summertime and having a gin Ricky and, and let's kind of hit some of those different seasons of the year. So you've already started off with summer. I think it's probably proved and we kind of just start there so we got gin Ricky, what other kind of cocktails are going to be good for an a just a little say a back porch drinking kinda kind of afternoon. How about that? You wake up. I'm pretty simple when it comes to summer cocktails. I love egg white cocktails. Yes. That know. My wife's language there. Yeah. And I'm, I'm trashed me. I have a sweet cocktail. 21:55 sweet wines. I'm not your normal. So I love sweet echo. 22:00 cocktails young whiskey hours. Yeah. I love biz's things like that. And then just, of course, whatever the bartender is going to come up with like, Pisco sours, I can show you one of my absolute favorite things in the world. Take Take one of your favorites right there and kind of kind of talk about some of the ingredients because I know a lot of our listeners are probably, they're curious, they hear that they hear the pisco sour. They hear some of these things with egg whites, but they kind of want to know like, what what what really entails into this that really like a craftsman such as you all could actually create. Welcome pisco sour. It's a classic from ru ga South America did simply uses simple syrup, lime juice, egg white and Pisco. Right now on our cocktail menu, we change it up just a little bit by throwing in a little bit of the Mexican side of the Doritos, the guava, and then throwing some real age tobacco and weather bitters on top and it changes the whole aspect that makes it slightly sweeter. We actually go to Apple in there as well to counterbalance 23:00 Some of the sweetness you're gonna put any CBD oil in there and, you know, I'll be honest, there's a there's a kind of a hippie Music Festival coming up in like a month. I know that's kind of how it is but we're thinking about making some CBD cocktail. 23:14 Going into that I got that hippie festival just why not? I haven't tried it before and I know it's a pretty upcoming thing. They were everywhere in Las Vegas and we went 23:24 sure of A is 23:26 like balloons filled with CBD air was like the world you know, you could do that, either. It's crazy. 23:35 actually had to like call the ABC office and make sure we are allowed to do that. No, and they're right. Yeah, we don't have anything against it. Yeah, yeah. They emphasized yet I could totally see you as a clever club guy. Ah, no, I think a good coworker. Yeah, I put that on the menu before just people didn't order so much. 23:58 Go for it. I love the clip. 24:00 I just had it on my menu. There you go. So the clover club is a classic from the night from 1900. And it was created for a gentleman's club that met every Thursday in Philadelphia at this hotel called the Stanford Bellevue hotel. Right? And like every one is like the last third has the third Thursday of every month they meet, and these guys would dress up to the nines and they would, you know, all have drinks before dinner. And then they would be led into this room that had this big table that was sheep in a clover clover, you know, set up you know, and they would have this like ceremony, you know, where the youngest member of the clover club would have to like, first sit in a baby chair is not a high chair. And until one of the members was like, okay, you can get up from the baby chair and this is it adults, you know, an adult man, and then he would have to go around with the clover club, sharing cup and then everyone would take a sip out of the 25:00 The clover club sharing cup. I still I have no idea what the drink is. But apparently the chef would come up with whatever concoction was in this like flowing cup, right? That would pass. I have no idea what it is. I can't find it. But then they sit down at dinner and through the courses, you know, it would be like, I think the second to last course they would have this cocktail or a punch. And in 1900 they had the clover club, which is a combination of gin, raspberry syrup, dry vermouth, and and then egg white. And it shaken, you know, so frothy, and it's this beautiful. It has like this beautiful, sweet flavor, but the driver who's kind of dries it out a bit. It's absolutely gorgeous. It really is. And I could totally see you. It's the it's one of my jams. Yeah. Now it evolved after prohibition, they kind of dropped the dry vermouth and then they put lemon with it so it kind of turned into a Pink Lady. So this cocktail it evolved, but it's fantastic. 25:55 We dug it I do both. So it depends on the 26:00 You know what's fancy? And yeah, I was like, it'd be hard to have Fred and I go to bar and order Pink Lady. I don't know. It's just, there's just something about the name. If you don't know anything about it, I think there's a I'm gonna drink a cocktail. It's gonna be a Pink Lady. 26:15 But if you did tell you that history of where it came from, you know, like, here's how this evolved. You know, it came from this gentleman's club. And but it goes for I mean, it wouldn't have it would have, it probably would have fizzled out if it wasn't for George Bush, who is the owner of that Stanford Bellevue hotel who went on to help open up that would have a story in New York and he brought that recipe with him making it popular. So really fascinating. That is fascinating. So that was summer we captured so are there a little bit. I got one more for summer because I'm a big fan of the gold rush. Are you what kind of workout kind of season Do you all see that? Any 26:54 say summer fall, but I mean, honey really falls anytime for me now. It's it's funny like I'm in a very 27:00 Similar favorite cocktails to brown derbies my favorite gold rush and brown Derby. kind of related. Can you all kind of talk about the the different components of each one of these as well as so our listeners understand that they're not sitting there googling like Oh crap, I don't know. I don't know what a because I'm not sure what a brown Derby is and I couldn't tell you everything that goes inside of a gold rush either. So so the brown Derby is bourbon, grapefruit juice and honey, it's really simple. But when you use the honey, you have to make sure that you water it down make the honey syrup because otherwise you will put honey into this drink and it will turn into a glob of a ball in the bottom of your drink because you're adding ice to it. So one part honey one part sugar, make a syrup or honey syrup and then it's about two ounces of bourbon. I put an ounce of 27:47 grapefruit and then half ounce of honey that's how I make my nice Yeah, yeah and you might have a history or better than this summer here a little bit on history but I mean honey sir win that. 27:58 fight about that like back in the day like 28:00 During the Tiki wars and we're trying to figure out how to recreate each other's cocktails and it was so simple as one person couldn't figure out how he was making that money nightclub open and a drink. Yeah, I had the formula. Yeah. It was Yeah, it was between I believe it was between Don the Beachcomber and 28:18 it was in all they had to do is add hot water 28:22 silly stupid little things that are so obvious and then you figure it out in your like your face palming because she figured out a long time ago so for Katie, you know, I know he's gonna follow up with this the Gold Rush, break that down. I mean, gold rush is just as simple as that three part lemon, honey, Jen, I, 28:41 a lot of these cocktails, all these classes, all these things are easy, you know, renditions of each other, just replacing one ingredient with another. You can go to the Daiquiri, which is another three part, you know, just some sort by rum game. What's Gen line? Yeah, it's, it's all these different ways of just doing your two, three 29:00 Quarter three quarter kind of sour recipes and tart recipes. Okay, okay so Fred already kind of alluded to it let's kind of move on to the next season let's let's enter the the fallen winter time because it's a little little darker a little warmer kind of kind of talk about what are your favorites during those those periods? Well, I mean for false, I mean, everything bourbon, I think a dark rum. 29:23 Rum cocktail. What I get into something warm and cozy. I mean, I get into the warm I know it's more 29:30 more winter. I think I get really excited in the fall when that you know, first colbrie starts to come in that first leaf falls. I want to start making tardies all over the place. I mean, already, I don't I do. ciders also. 29:45 That's kind of grabs my jam. Yeah, we get all season local cider and put it like heated up and then we add, you know, whatever, whatever. Like it usually is bourbon or around 29:57 the cider and it's like everybody's favorite. It's awesome. 30:00 So yeah, and people really start grabbing on like heavy hitters cocktails more so even in the fall than in the winter, because I think in the winter they're used to getting cold that point use once third boozy bourbon cocktails but I can use a lot of crazy bitters cocktails in the fall. 30:17 turning 30:18 things like I have a one I do like bourbon and apple and ginger beer, but then a ton of barely bitters and it almost tastes like an apple cider and you just kind of get into those really 30:31 jagged, not like Irby. Yeah, 30:34 like those coffee, you know that the whole tomorrow thing. It's not my jam. I have a lot of bartenders who are like lava Mars and Mars are Italian bitter spirits pretty much in the right way. In the right way. I hate shooting and I got shoot me down probably will get shot for being a bartender who's not a big fan of for net. 30:57 Goodbye for me. It's not like 31:00 rumble that I'll just throw away but you'll never ever see me order a shot for net and that's what every bartender out a kiddie that just so you know this is a this is an industry thing like the bar like you go out with a bunch of bartenders somebody inevitably gets a round of for net and I think it's like someone you know for net has, 31:21 you know as you know putting little envelopes all over the country 31:27 or something but it's like who in the right mind would order it? It kind of reminds me of I saw I saw a picture the other day on the internet that said there's a secret society of people living among those that are still keeping long john Silver's and business. 31:40 So this is probably like that same, that same analogy. So true that places grow. 31:46 Like this. 31:49 And I gotta say, Molly, you know, went to fall cocktails. I was kind of shocked that you didn't talk about a punch. Well, yeah, well, I was getting there. 31:58 I know how much you love. 32:00 I do I love punch. I think it's, first of all, it saves every party. It saves every host hostess at a party, you know, but the history behind the punches are, 32:12 are the best, the best. I mean, there's one it's more of a, I think a Christmas punch, but I started serving in the fall, the admiral Russell's 32:21 punch is so great. I mean it has its its brandy and Sherry. And those are the two main things and then lemon and and then there's a sweet to it as well. So punch means five in Hindi. So five different components or another spirit sweet, sour water and spice that is a template for a really good punch and punches date back almost 500 years, you know, it started when you know Europeans started, you know, traveling all over the world, you know, putting merchant companies into different parts. 33:00 The world the English pretty much in, in India, and then once they get to this, you know this country, you know, the native people trying to make sure that everybody's refreshed. You guys think like people just didn't get off the boat and like, give me water, you know, they absolutely they're like, I need a drink, you know, and usually it was liquor or something that was some kind of alcohol and they couldn't trust the water, they drink the water, they get sick. Yeah. So it was very a lot of people didn't drink water, you know, they drink, you know, ale or wine, you know, or spirits. So, making sure that everybody got refreshed in this hot country, you know, pulling all their resources together and mixing it all together in a big bowl to make it palatable punch bill. 33:46 It sounds like it was just like a means to survive and what punch really became well think about this. So the admin Russell's so I'm gonna tell you the story. There was a guy named Errol Russell. He was in the English army 1600s and he was traveling of the 34:00 coast to Spain. And he decided on Christmas day to get off and throw a party in the city of cookies. And in CODIS, they had this huge fountain in the middle of like the governor's courtyard or something like that or the town. And he's like, well, we're going to use that as a punch bowl. So they poured in, you know, these big you know, barrels of brandy and Sherry spit a Sherry and then added limes and added everything and they It was so big and there's so many there's like 600 people there. They had to get the cabin boy from the boat in a little lifeboat to serve the punch. Everybody got naked, they drink the place dry and then everybody had a great hangover the next day. I always think how cool it would be if I could do this at Fountain Square in Cincinnati. If I get the mayor to let me like use Fountain Square it as a drinking fountain. You know, I could use it as punishable. Would you recommend everyone getting naked? Yeah. I 34:54 mean, gosh, we're not that conservative in Cincinnati. 35:00 Naked fun run around there somewhere anybody's gonna like break that conservative you know boat it's gonna be me 35:09 to all our listeners out there start petitioning Cincinnati mer for Molly's naked fountain party party love me oh god 35:21 well and maybe that could happen to at the party. Yeah You never 35:27 know blushing or anything No, it sounds awesome. I want I want the invite to this party. Yeah, it'll be epic. 35:35 Yes, punch is great. It really is so easy to do. That's good. I mean, that's that's a history of punches that that I had never known about. Seriously up until now. But you know, the other thing that we want to kind of talk about too is 35:48 you know, I guess we'll stay on the cocktails the right occasion kind of part kind of talk about, say, say Fred and I were you know, we're taking our wives out. what's what's that kind of cocktail bourbon kind of cocktail at that. 36:00 Somebody could go out on a date with their wife, nice romantic place and maybe kind of maybe guide her in a way to say like, you need to try this other kind of good bourbon cocktail. Because my wife isn't Are you asking how to man's playing to her? 36:14 I'm just trying to figure out like, how can I get my wife to drink more bourbon cocktails? Right? I know I know this is a Ryan Brian property because his wife is only only drinks wine and she she probably knows is I don't got that problem with Jacqueline and I got the opposite problem. I got home from being out of town. And then you know, my 30th anniversary of Booker's is like down here. It's like, straight straight from the bottom right now. I was rapping making whiskey sours with it. 36:43 Been there. 36:46 We were finishing up a new year's eve one evening, we got home late night from the bar and we had a couple friends over and I was like, hey, let me push out a bourbon for everybody. Let's celebrate as I can just go grab a bottle for some shots. She comes back and 37:00 I'll take a shot all kind of wins and it was a I was it was definitely a barrel proof. Okay, I 12 years. 37:07 You know, they're like the 120s and 30s or whatever and I was like, well, that happened 37:13 a little shorter. But 37:16 my husband doesn't drink bourbon which I married. That's the reason why I married him because you always need a driver. Yeah, that will. Not that much but he doesn't get into my bourbon collection. Except if he has like a tattoo guy because he's a tattoo. When somebody is visiting and they're in the bourbon. He'll open up my, you know, my pantry which used to have all my bourbon in it. I'll be like, pick one. 37:39 world is yours. Yeah. He got in one time to my 2013 Elmer Tilly that was given to me by Omer TVO you know while ago sign and it was like cherished, you know, drank the whole thing. I was so mad. I was divorced and I was like 37:57 you like 38:00 How 38:01 high is like models that you cannot touch is like, she can't even reach it. And I think she knows at that point she can't reach it. Don't touch it. My wife, my wife will climb the shell to get it. Oh, he wants me not to have that one. So she ended up she ended up having a bourbon that I couldn't touch. She got a bourbon women barrel pig. Oh, and, like, Peggy is the one who gifted it to her. She's like, Fred can't have any of this. And so, you know, I couldn't have any until I eventually got permission and when I got permission, I drained that. 38:38 Anyway, I know he's gonna I know. 38:42 We 38:43 got to figure out like how, you know, I think what Kenny's looking for, like the gateway, what is it? What is a gateway cocktail to get people into bourbon? I know. It's a seal buck. I know. It's like, whatever cocktail. You know if you have those. Yeah, I mean, it works. 39:00 It works. The robot cocktail is a champagne cocktail. And it had a story that a lot of people thought was true. And then we found out it wasn't true. I worked at that I was the bar manager at the CEO bar before the, you know, huge wall street journal article that kind of threw out the old historic story of the cocktail. And it hurt me a ton because I use it even after I left the seal Bach to introduce people to bourbon and I've still got people that come see me to drink the COI cocktail. I had a couple who came in for their anniversary the other night and they've been drinking from me for years. And it just hurt my soul When I 39:37 see her. We're just like, fraudulent. 39:40 Oh my god. Well, I think it's safe to say that everything in the spirits business is bullshit. You know, JN true. Your your book. What does it bourbon cure? Yeah, I read that a few times. Thank you bit about that. Yeah, just you can't trust anything. 40:00 Ricky stories is pretty legit because the guy wasn't really in the business. You know the real guy well back in the day before smartphones, 40:09 shit to 40:13 throw anything at you is fantastic but you know a great story is a great story and it does create an experience No matter if it's true or not. So I say Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. That's right. So tell us about the seal Bach what's the best bourbon to use there? What's the best champagne? How do you make it work? I like First of all, I like to use a sugar cube. I don't know if he's a sugar cube use sugar. I don't know I use just a splash of simple syrup about consistency. And I like I like the sugar cube because I love the little crystals that go through it. So sugar cube, I douse it with both Angostura and patient bitters. I'm heavier on the patient with an iron Angostura. Yeah, a little more citrus for Yeah, it makes it a little more crowd pleasing. Yeah. The CEO box even at the hotel, I had it sent back 41:00 When I would do super heavy on both yeah started bringing down the Angostura a little bit yeah back OD became more palatable for the masses so that and then I like to use just for your for roses yellow label for sale bought because it seems to be a little lighter you know worse there for me I leveled for sure but there's something about I don't know the when I like when I make 41:23 for some reason for roses yellow label has a lighter 41:29 lighter something about it for these lighter cocktails I use that another one my cocktails it's one of the most popular on our menu. I actually like the the old force you can still a little bit of spice it has yet to go against the champagne and a little bit of sweetness in there. So well and then I top it off usually with a dredge Prosecco and then the champagne does any dry but we have used Prosecco or dry champagne. And you do use terms like or do you use like in my strike here, I use I make my own Triple Sec. So I triple sec, just a little 42:00 Orange look for so that brings it all together and there's something about this so you still can taste the bourbon but it's not overpowering because it's lightened up with the champagne. 42:12 So any any not just bourbon, but you don't use a little ins and outs of bourbon and when I make so it's not like overpowering people and a half 42:22 and half the triple. Yeah, there's been a lot of differences between these. It's really good. Just a simple cocktail. Yes, it's fascinating. Oh, I don't think it's the right answer. That's why that's why MIMO we've been friends for a long time. It's because we understand that it's the great thing if you know there's there's certain cocktails, you know, everybody like little fashion for instance, everybody makes their own fashion different. They really do. I don't I don't think I've ever had unless it's a bartender that I trained on how I make my old fashions. I don't think I've ever had an old fashioned same hopefully they're making it the same way. 42:58 Yeah, I've done that before. 43:00 Hear that before where people like know we're going to model this I'm like no not in my bar we're not doing Have you seen the YouTube video? The woman Oh talk 43:11 last night yeah 715 43:15 army we used to talk them with soda. Like I used to call that the steak house old fashioned. Yeah, that's how I learned it. Back in the early 2000s. We were you know, we were modeling orange and cherry and throwing a couple sugar packets in there. soda water and it was and this is a white tablecloth Steakhouse that Yang $10 a cocktail, at least you didn't like just take a thing of simple stare and go, you know, like this. I've been a bourbon police, a bourbon place downtown August they were and the guy was making these old fashions. He's just like, it was like probably like a full house and half a simple syrup in the glass, and then bourbon on top and then and then he just threw a cherry and an orange in there. I was like, oh my god. It's like we both know some places around here that we might not go to and go back 44:00 Drink bourbon. No, no, no. Is it hard for you to go places when you see when you see other people like creating cocktails and you're kind of like, send it back like every day? do you do that? I mean, what's your there? I have I mean not not because I will spin people who don't who didn't understand the egg white thing that you have to actually shake it a lot. And he got outlawed in some areas. So there are some cities that have outlawed horrible things back. I mean, it was slimy still, it wasn't it didn't have the aeration of the A. And I've said back old fashions because they were just so sweet. Like it just was disgusting. So usually though, I don't do that. I just ordered a bourbon on the rock. 44:39 I don't drink cocktails, the whole I drink more cocktails and I'm out of town. Yeah, for some reason. When I'm out of town in a different city. It's kind of inspirational. It's kind of like getting a feel for where you're at to drink more cocktails. Or if I'm at a, you know, a new restaurant or bar in town that I haven't had cocktails at, but if I'm going to visit my friends at their bar, I'm not ordering cocktails from them hardly ever 45:00 They might make me something they want me to try, but I'm drinking a beer bourbon. Yeah. Yeah. I don't drink beer so I drink a lot. OJ go Martini. I drink Beefeater martinis or Plymouth martinis depending on my jam. Good. Yeah. Jim. 45:15 So let's go back to like the the entry level kind of cocktails. 45:22 Hey, it's Kenny here and I want to tell you about the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you stroll things along the scenic Kentucky River. There's also going to be food vendors from regional award winning chefs. Plus you get to meet the master distillers and brand ambassadors you've heard on the show, but the kicker is bourbon pursuit. We're going to be there in our very own booth as well. Your $65 ticket includes everything all food and beverage on Saturday. 46:00 Plus you can come on Friday for the free Bourbon Street on Broadway event. Don't wait, go and buy your tickets now at bourbon on the banks.org. 46:10 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels, but a Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. That all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling a beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk beer twice, the mature bourbon is finished in those very same barrels. RackHouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US along with two bottles. 47:00 hard to find whiskey rackhouse's boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel ride. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. The 2019 Kentucky's edge bourbon conference and festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4 and fifth at venues throughout Covington in Newport Kentucky, Kentucky's edge features of bourbon conference music tastings pairings tours and in artists and market Kentucky's edge 2019 is where bourbon begins. Tickets and information can be found online at Kentucky's edge.com. 47:45 So let's go back to like the the entry level kind of cocktails. One that I have found is almost a surefire winners not really a lot of people's radars. And that's bourbon slushies, huh? Oh, yeah, I mean, I have yet to find someone who didn't like bourbon. 48:00 But I introduced them to like a really nice bourbon slushy recipe and they were just wow, do you guys do anything with slushies? I have I have snow could thing. 48:10 It's not Snoopy either. 48:13 I have it's like it's harder for me. Um, it's kind of breaking the law to do those. And I'm pretty stickler for those things. A lot of the people that pre mold it's against the law to have a slushy machine as a as with drinks in it in Kentucky. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 48:35 hi. Oh, that's completely legal. No, I'm not doing that in Ohio. But man, I was going to open a slushy liquor bar in Kentucky and now it's all 48:42 right now as it stands right now in Kentucky and I had to check this recently. Because we wanted to do so she's a 48:50 spirit has to be served from its original container last being consumed immediately. So by their iteration and Kentucky, if it sits and 49:00 mixture of less than 24 hours then you can serve it out of a machine or a pre mixer things like that. If it sits over 24 hours it's no longer legal. So interesting right so yeah so no barrel aged. I we when I was at my old Goodfellas we got rid of our house michelman show we got rid of our barrel aged cocktails all because there were some a couple people that got hit by the ABC on that Eric Gregory if you're listening to this with this on the Kentucky distillers associations I don't mean to throw it out there sorry. We saw 49:35 hillbilly Eric not who he was up nobility Yeah, but he got hit hard on that and it shut him down. Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, I watched a restaurant go down in flames because of something simple like that. And I don't I'm not gonna risk the entire business doing that we got a few emails will send after this one to some friends who 49:54 I had no idea but I mean, you say things like, okay, like more beverages wine that's not 100 50:00 Spirit you can do like local things like that. No saucy vermouth cocktails. Well you said you actually brought something up that that I always love going places and I've had good ones I've had bad ones that barrel aged cocktails kind of talk about your we got a yes and a no 50:17 go yeah it's very age who we send out in we did right across up I love that one. So I don't I love I love to use, you know, aged products to make a fresh cocktail. I don't think it doesn't taste fresh and it comes out of like, if you read if you make a cocktail, you may begin to granny or Manhattan and he put it into a barrel. 50:41 I hate that. I mean it kind of rounded out the rough edges you had to do it correctly like we would do two barrels. We took one barrel was our serving beer and we put paraffin wax on the inside so it's no longer reactive because people will keep it in a fresh barrel where it becomes over age and many tannic rough on your palate. If you get it to the right point and then change it over to an honorary 51:00 barrel that's where I think you you keep it is so you would age yours to a certain time age it to what we thought was right and every time you use the barrel it changes a little differently tasteful different so you're tasting and every couple days a week or so and then you bottle it yeah cabin and then you have you're serving in st you're you're serving barrel that we paraffin wax and you would fill that up and serve it from there. Yeah. Oh 51:28 I love Sam fights breakout 51:32 no I don't like oh, no, no, we've had differences opinion before so 51:38 I'm just not really drink is barely, you know, making them anytime soon. So I gotta tell you I kind of lean with Molly on my opinion of barrel aged cocktails. Like I have found them to be over tannic way battery the essence of the spirit is often lost. And if there is any kind of citrus in it, I 52:00 Swear to God I said wait hold on so I put sisters in a bed so you can put sisters in a very shocking that's just 52:06 I think that's the thing is like people think that they can just like make a cocktail and throw it into a barrel anything you know, and they don't realize there's some oxidation that goes on is very unsafe. I think it just you got to know what you're doing it's like Molly knows what she's doing what she's making tobacco bitters, but tobacco bitters are dangerous part to me. margins are playing around with activated charcoal they're out there playing around with things that they don't know fully about. And there it's not exactly Well, the the nitrogen one there's been a couple cases of customers are having burning their throat or having their stomach. Huge lawsuit with George Clooney, his old brand new they sold Castillo because of ego. They were having a party like even after he sold it or whatever. And somebody like Woody was out of work for eight months because they destroyed their esophagus on dry ice stupid. Well, yeah, don't use dry ice at home now. 53:00 There's so many things you show me that I'm dumb down. Well, let's keep the the disagreements going here because 53:09 so this is this is another one where I think our listeners would be interested to kind of see what is the right bourbon for the right type of cocktail, because you've got, you've got your weeded, you've got your high rise, you've got your low rise, you've got your craft that has sort of a more of a grainy flavor to it. So with these four, like where did they fit in inside and there's one other kind, the kind where they're paying you to put it in the cocktail? 53:37 competition competitions and things. I guess this will work. 53:42 I don't know if you agree, but I rarely and this is gonna be a kind of a blanket statement. I rarely find that we did Bourbons go into cocktails for me. Like a smash. Yeah. But not too often do I use a weighted bourbon and cocktails? Yeah, don't use a lot of we I mean unless I have to for like makers or something. 54:00 Right What do you mean less I have to well like you said like like if they're you know paying for it like 54:09 a lot of makers things and I you know I usually will like figure out the the cocktail for that you know it really well I mean 54:18 makers find to be a little sweeter so not 54:26 and not as complex as a lot of the other Bourbons I love makers don't don't think that I'm like putting it down no telling telling you like what I think I just gotta like you gotta figure out like what to put in it so that he doesn't like Lakers in a smash right it's about the only thing I put it I love smashes that was like one of my favorite like a Bramble even Rambo works I mean, I've made Maker's Mark brambles All right, y'all gotta remember 54:51 talking other languages fruit, smashed fruit and 54:57 and then your spirits and sometimes I put citrus in 55:00 Bramble and then top it off with spotlight club soda. Very simple, easy to make it home and bright cocktail. Yeah. 55:09 Like switching up the Bourbons there's lots of times where like a competition is happening and you make it with the bourbon gives you have to but you know it tastes better with a different burger. Yeah, that's how I've done that plenty of times. I'll just switch it up and put it on the menu with a different bourbon even though the competition required this and that. What's the ultimate bourbon mixing? cocktail? My what's the what's the cocktail mixing bourbon? I love old forester January. I mean, even my bar uses a lot. I will say there's bourbon. I'm gonna hate me for saying this. I'm not a big fan of Woodford straight. 55:45 Yeah, 55:47 straight out my favorite 55:50 other products but then like we said, we both love old forester. Yeah, if somebody buys me a word for it, I'm going to drink it, but you know, but I'd rather drink old Forester, the old forester signatures. 56:00 jam you know I say go for some signature all the time and it's not on the label anymore and 56:06 I go give me a bottle versus signature well 56:09 I noticed both of you all mentioned four roses yellow label to time to update. 56:15 Yeah 56:17 I love you been around the block you reference I brands I love using 56:23 in my well use I use Ancient Egypt 10 star for can get it if not benchmark. Ancient ages are well yeah. 56:34 And then sometimes sometimes Evan Williams if I can't find those other two that's how it goes in Ohio though. So there's a great for mixing if I make an old fashioned I use old granddad 100 or bonded if I making a Manhattan usually it's old forester. You know, or you know man, maker smart makes a great old fashioned 56:59 way 57:00 Deal force arrived 57:02 in Ohio know when I started using that all my Manhattans so 57:08 I like right in my man hands too but I think in this area there's something about a bourbon man and I don't know maybe it just goes back to that me working in high end retail and it was always with a bourbon. That's what I always did it with and I kind of gone back to using rye because we use it also in black Manhattan's which we serve a ton of and the rye helps cut through that tomorrow a bit. Have you ever made white Manhattan's Have you ever used a nice whiskey and made man? 57:34 I feel like I probably have at some point but I can't wait good. Yeah, yeah, shame on HH whiskey. I got white dog. Yeah, us especially that. What is it the OMG the 57:46 What is it? What is it out in Utah? What are they? 57:51 totally blank. And yeah, they're OMZ is this still called that? I can't get in Ohio. This what I used in Kentucky, but that with orange bitters, and then 58:00 dry vermouth instead. Holy moly you're a bigger fan of white dog and I know we discussed this before I I enjoy it but you like to sit around just sip on it I like the Buffalo Trace mash one. She's, she's old school. Love it. So when we look at you know bourbon cocktails we tend to look at it from like it's it's a price thing. It's usually the $30 and under. But there are some bartenders who will slap you know, slap a little Pappy in, in a cocktail shaker. Do you guys ever go crazy and put like an alley or super allocated? 58:36 bourbon or rye in a cocktail? Yes. 58:40 I got two ways of saying it. One is you're paying me the money. You're the one paying for the whiskey. I'll do it. Do you enjoy your way but anytime anyone's ever ordered a patented coke for me. My way of serving it has been I give him a glass of Pappy I give him a glass of coke and I give him ice and tell them with it being such a nice bourbon. I wanted to give you the component 59:00 You can mix it yourself to the appropriate mix. I've never mixed the coke not once so I try to not be offensive by Tom mirror. Wow fucking idiot 59:12 my bartenders always say I'm good at saying fuck you with a smile. 59:18 Like, my husband's always like you really good being like fuck you but your hair looks really nice. 59:28 Now I'll just say I, I feel like 59:32 I'm at my bar I'm there I'm I control the bar and I am there to educate people on what they're drinking, how they're drinking it. And so I will not serve them a copy of coke. I will educate them on why they shouldn't drink this with Coke. If it's really it's, I mean, they push it then I probably do the same thing but I have never had do that. It's happened me a few times that actually add a few bars. had to do that a couple times. But like I said, it's never gotten mixed. They've always thank 1:00:00 Me In the end I appreciate you not letting me ruin that that 1:00:05 you know the best thing out there and you know that's what obviously we go into it to our walk on this you probably don't need it I did you set up the next podcast. My sister took her to wild turkey though, you know Lawrenceburg and we did the high end tasting and right in the middle of it she cracks open a diet coke was died like my sister of all people. You can't do that. Like you cannot mix that with the diamond. 1:00:31 Yeah. 1:00:33 So sorry. 1:00:35 It's apologize to our family wild turkey too for that. 1:00:40 So another question I kind of had for you. You know, we've all at least in the bourbon world, we see stuff on the shelf, we buy it, we all make mistakes. It's it might be like I said it could be craft and a little bit too green forward. We're just not a big fan of drinking it neat. Is there a cocktail that you can use to make these a little bit more palatable? 1:01:00 Absolutely yes so kind of kind of talk about where ginger ale and 1:01:09 fancy it up a little bit rather than just adding ginger ale but you can always play around on something and doing something that is really going to cover flavors Manhattan's and no passions more enhance and you can do some stuff and a heavy smash or do a bird a sour even that I help cover it. Still I've had some I had to come through bed but yeah, let me let me I'm sure you guys get stuff sent to you sometimes from yesterday. Just show up. Yeah, yeah, twice, not mad about it. But sometimes it's usually from a newer distillery or a craft distiller and it's not that their products. It's not bad. It's just different than what you're used to, you know, no. 1:01:54 Bad. I've had some stuff where I'm like, Oh, this isn't bad. It's just it's just different. Yeah. 1:02:00 dozy Tyler yet have you all for God's sake. 1:02:04 Shit. Bad. So 1:02:07 one of the few that I've it spit out I've had, you know, he's like drywall. Yeah, got 1:02:14 some I poured me one recently to that I had to spit out it was out of a tin can. I can still 1:02:21 Yeah. 1:02:24 So there there's a 1:02:27 you know, I write reviews I score whiskeys and people started pointing out you know if you really don't like something you say would make a great cocktail bourbon and I didn't I really did not realize I was doing that. I'll be honest, I did not realize I was doing that. But I was passing it on to like, yeah, you know what it's drinking need. It's cocktail bourbon, but I have found that there is one note and some of these, these Bourbons that you cannot get out if it's a bad one. And it's that over charcoal Lee woody know, it's like there 1:03:00 Nothing that I've been able to find that can cut that Do you have any recommendations for like how to cut cut that charcoal that over woody note that you find a lot of two year old craft bourbon because like what I call it is that new bourbon tastes like this the big green exactly No. I mean, I just did I just had a bourbon and I it wasn't that was bad. It was really good. It was different. And by a very really respected new distiller new distiller who I have a lot of respect for. 1:03:34 And I couldn't figure out what to do with it but final

In this week's episode of Podcast from Washington, Eli Briggs and Ian Goldstein discuss the passage of the Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019 and how that will affect appropriations bills for FY2020. They also discuss the final “public charge” rule from the Trump Administration. Finally, they discuss August recess and how you can get involved in public health advocacy.   Later in the program, Ian Goldstein sat down with Public Health Director for Kentucky River District Health Department Scott Lockard. They discuss the implementation of the department's needle exchange program and how other health departments can replicate positive health outcomes. They also discuss the challenges and community buy-in for the project. 

Last week, CNN reported that Facebook and Instagram are shutting down all peer to peer sales of alcohol. This wasn’t a joke. In the span of 72 hours, all of the major bourbon groups were wiped out. The secondary market is synonymous with Facebook. The growth of bourbon’s popularity can be attributed to it as well by those that are in it to flip bottles. Owen Powell didn’t create the first group to buy, sell, and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest. The Bourbon Secondary Market group is no longer around on Facebook, but the story of how it was built, the ways discussions were moderated, and how it served as a data gold mine for valuations is told. We uncover the progression of the group from a few hundred members to reaching over 50,000, what leads to certain distilleries being banned on a black market, and if the secondary market will actually end if Facebook groups cease to exist. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits has won a few medals at some of the most prestigious spirits competitions out there, but don’t take their word for it and find out for yourself. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Parker's Heritage Collection. How did you get into bourbon? Talk about the growth of the group. Were there any growing pains? How many members are in the group? How many admins do you have? What do you look for in admins? Why do people have animosity towards admins in these groups? Let's talk about the rules in the group. How did the secondary raffle site become its own thing? How does a dispute come about? What do all the acronyms mean? What is the best way to handle a dispute? Have you ever had accusations of counterfeits? How do you handle that kind of situation? Why did you do an open group? Do you keep a log of all the transactions? You’ve banned a few distilleries. How are rules like that determined? Why do you run the group even though you don't get paid? What do you do when someone prices something too high? What about monthly dues? Do you think groups could end on Facebook? 0:00 Have you thought about a career in the whiskey industry? I'm not talking about being the next master distiller. But if you want a leg up on the competition, you need to take a look at the distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville. This 30 week program will prepare you for the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is 100% online meaning you can access the classes at anytime and anywhere so what are you waiting for? Get signed up to make your next career move at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits 0:35 people add their wives to the group and then immediately regret it because you know their wives mad at them they're always on their phone. wife gets in there sees how much they're spending on it then it's like when you kick my wife out know that you got to do figure that out on your own. I'm not getting in the middle of that. I think I might add my wife 0:52 to it because because being part of the podcast now I'm like, I gotta you gotta have a pulse on what's happening. So you know exactly uninvite. 1:10 Hey, this is Episode 212 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news. On July 26 2019 beam Suntory broke ground on what is to become the friend be no craft distillery. It's part of a $60 million investment and what will become known as the James be distilling company and that can be located in Claremont, Kentucky. All of the building itself will be fresh construction. The brands that are gonna be produced at this new craft distiller are ones that were already familiar with like Booker's knob Creek and Basil Hayden's all as well as new brands such as little book and legend. Its name for the seventh generation master distiller Fred know which has been on the show few times before, and this new distillery will give know and his son Freddie the opportunity to experiment with new fermentation and distillation techniques. The distillery has also announced that they will be updating the visitor experiences with behind the scene looks at their brands, a new tasting room, and much more. Heaven Hill has announced the 13th release of the Parkers heritage collection, and this will be a heavy char rye whiskey. While 2:22 standard barrels and heaven Hill are a chart three the barrels the distillery used to age this rye our char five, that means they're burned for 50 seconds longer than a typical char three. The heavier char the easier it is for the whiskey to penetrate the wooden staves and take on those heightened open spice flavors. This new ride is going to be eight years old and nine months in these and was aged also in the seventh floor of Rick house why before being non shell filtered and bottled at 105 proof. The Parkers heritage collection is named after heaven Hill master distiller Parker beam, who passed away in 2017. After being diagnosed with ALS back in 2010. portions of the sale are donated to fund ALS research, and sales from the past six editions has raised over $1 million. The retail price set on this is going to be $150 MSRP. Ryan and myself are excited to announce that we are going to begin the process of opening a distribution of pursuit series in three states. You can look forward to Georgia, Texas, and of course Kentucky as the first states that we will be hitting the first barrel has been selected by Justin's House of bourbon with a second one quickly going into liquor barn, we're super excited to be able to bring our single barrel offerings at stores selections at first. And you can look for more information on stores in the States on our website at pursuit spirits.com. Now, don't worry if you aren't even in those states or Heck, even if you are you can still purchase your bottles and have them shipped to your door through our online retailer at sealed box dot com. You can go to pursuit spirits calm and click the Buy Now button and you'll be redirected to the site for that particular single barrel. Right now we only have about 20 bottles, let them stock but we're going to have a brand new September release, so get ready for it. Last week, CNN reported that Facebook and Instagram are shutting down all sales of alcohol, cigarettes and other similar things like e cigarettes. And this wasn't a joke in the span of around 72 hours. Half of the bourbon groups that I belong to were wiped out. Many of the larger secondary groups with 30 to 50,000 members were gone immediately in over the next 24 hours more disappeared. And even some groups that sold or raffled charitable causes for bottles were gone as well. We can't say for sure if this is the end of the Facebook secondary market, but it sure is a swift kick to it. Immediately following the demise of the large groups. Many of the smaller ones with less than 3000 members change their names, they also change the rules. And while multitudes of even more smaller groups started to emerge, it's uncertain if we'll ever see a group with over 20,000 members ever again. And that's kind of why we decided to release this podcast, the secondary market, it's synonymous with Facebook. This can also be attributed to the growth of Bourbons popularity by those that are captivated at some of the values that some of these bottles Dr. ON pal didn't create the first group to buy, sell and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest, the bourbon secondary market group is no longer around. But the story of how it was built, the way discussions were moderated and how it served as a data gold mine for valuations is a story that needs to be told. we uncover the progression of the group from 100 members to reaching over almost at the time it was cease to exist as around 50,000. And really, we're also going to talk about what leads to certain distilleries also being banned on this black market and at the secondary market will actually end Facebook's cease to ever exist again. Now you're done listening to me. So let's go ahead and listen to Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick 6:12 with above the char. 6:15 Hey, everyone, Joe here again. Our Bourbons have won a few medals, some of the most prestigious spirits competitions out there. But don't take their word for it. Find out for yourself. Use the store locator and barrellbourbon.com. 6:28 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char. This past week, I posted a photo of the new Parker's heritage release. It was like a lot of PR release images. It was shiny. It told you all about the new whiskey. And it came with a price tag hundred and 4999. So pretty drastic increase from past Parker's heritage releases past releases were around 89 to $100. So you're looking at about a 50 to 60 you know, dollar price increase depending on what market you live in. People on my Instagram went crazy. I mean, maybe not crazy, but they were very upset with the price increase. And I had people writing me saying that this is solving Parker's good name. As many people know, I was really quite close with Parker been before he passed away. And it got me to thinking about where we are in bourbon right now. There's actually price increases across the board, not just with these really nice bottles like Parker's heritage, and the Buffalo Trace antique collection. But you're seeing it like an everyday Bourbons. I remember when I used to find four roses small batch for like $20. Now it's a $40 bottle. Now, some of that is on the retailer's for selling it to that price. But the fact is Bourbons that are 40 $50, I used to pay 15 to $25. for them. That is where we are. But I'm curious, I've been curious as to how much that might actually impact the retention of consumers. So I did a little digging. And as it turns out, if you are running a business and you are selling a product, one of the best things you can do is increase your price. In fact, they say that people actually grow their profits, and they also grow their consumer base. So according to this thing called the McKinsey report, it suggests that for basically like every 1% of increase in price can yield an 8% increase in profits. But these reports and all these people who are talking who are studying price increases also preach transparency. They say, Tell your people tell your customer base, why you're increasing the price? Did your costs go up? Did you have a bad loss in the previous quarter? And you're trying to make up for it? Why are you increasing prices, if you don't start telling your consumers, especially the bourbon consumers who have been with you from the very beginning, why you're increasing your prices, you will start to see a massive boycott. I'm talking about the kind of boycott you find on social media that ends up trending and people will no longer be buying your bottles. And that new consumer you think you might get because you're increasing the price and you're not coming off as cheap. Well, that person is going to be googling who you are when they're in the total wine or whatever liquor store. And when they Google you and they find out you've been increasing your prices 50 600% they're going to walk away and they're going to go to something else. In today's day and age, you cannot increase a price almost 100% and get away with it. Consider this some free advice to Bourbons everywhere. Keep your prices affordable. So the everyday person can buy them. If you want to have really ultra expensive products, create a new product and brand it to be ultra ultra expensive. But going from $89 to 150. It's just not good. It's a bad optic. So be thoughtful with your pricing and be transparent. You'll be rewarded by customers who love your product. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, did you know that I'm also curating hometown rising a country music festival that's featuring Tim McGraw, Luke Bryan Keith Urban and Little Big Town, go check it out at hometown rising.com. I'll be on the stage and you can hit me up and have a drink with me. Until next week. Cheers. 10:52 Welcome back to the new episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Ryan here today talking about us subject that is very familiar to the bourbon culture and the whiskey geek culture. Because if anybody is really getting to bourbon, you've probably gone down your aisles, you see a lot of the regular stuff that's out there, you start getting really influenced by all of it and you want to learn more about it, then you learn about, we've talked about our own journeys into this, you learn about limited releases, and how hard it is to get your hands on limited releases. And when you get down to that path, everything all leads to one one sort of in gate here. And that's the secondary market. 11:36 Yes. 11:38 Well, you start out and you're like excited, you know, you found the Weller, you know, Elijah Craig barrel proof. And then you're like, well, what else is there, and then you gotta get bored with the stuff that you can find, then you're like, then people inches, like you introduce me to the Facebook world. And like, I was like, Oh, my God. It's like a Pandora's box. And that's how I got introduced to dust ease and all the limitations, and it's like, it's the best thing that's ever happened. Yeah, and the worst thing 12:03 is the best, worst thing you know, and we'll we'll talk about, you know, really our guest, because he is he's really the ones that as kind of spearhead and really grown this movement. But you know, just on the topic of dusty, I remember getting into the secondary market. And this is this was like, early 2014 timeframe when I was introduced to it. And this is before I think even this group was around that that became the largest one, he had all these secret code name groups that you got into. And I remember seeing dusty, and people were paying like 100 bucks for some 1970s old grand, I bought an 86 Oh, granted for 75 bucks, like in 2015. I bought, like, I bought like three or four of them. And but I was looking at it back then I was like, What moron is I know. 12:49 There's a 999 sticker on it, like 12:54 10 towns that but now it's like, why didn't about all of them? 12:57 Oh, gosh, I'm sure we all have some of these stories. So let's go ahead and introduce our guests today. So our guest today was one of the founders or is one of the founders of the largest secondary group that's out there on Facebook. So Ellen Pao of bourbon secondary market, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Well, thank you for coming on. And you know, really kind of giving us a behind the scenes look of, of what really happens here. And, and just to make sure that everybody's clear, like, oh, it is not sitting here like advocating but he does this he kind of just operates a community. Right? And that's really what it is. And it doesn't matter if it was him or anybody else like this is going to thrive and exist no matter what, 13:35 no matter the channel no matter what. Absolutely. 13:38 So before we kind of dive into that, oh, and let's talk about kind of your past like how did you get into bourbon? How did you kind of find your way into into the scene? 13:49 See, I got into bourbon probably around seventh grade, just kind of like parents houses. 13:57 Usually people 13:59 get you're like, 14:01 like liquor cabinet. And, you know, us doing appreciate the corner. Yeah. But that was just, I mean, that's when I first got into it, then there was a pretty good time that I quit drinking it just because I had bad experience in high school and kind of just like, oh, not doing that. So it's usually when people have those 14:21 variances. And 14:22 then I guess freshman year in college, I worked at liquor barn in Lexington, and I was like, I'm gonna go out and get on, try and get back into this, you know, put it behind me got a bottle of Elijah Craig 18 for 50 bucks. It's like, I can't believe I'm spending this much. You know, went home had a party, we mixed it with Coke, you know, did shots of it just, it was, you know, one of those 1980 ones that were really good. Corey Putnam just chugs all the time. 14:54 And, you know, you look back and you're thinking like, Man, I wish I had that bottle of appreciation 14:58 anymore. You know, of course. The whole everybody looks at it, like a stock with they bought it when it first came out. Yeah, you know, but it is what it is. I 15:08 only bought Apple when it first came out. 15:11 Right? Yeah. $10 wouldn't, you know, but, uh, so and then, I guess, getting my education in hospitality, you know, I was managing restaurants and hotels, and in that kind of just the whole food and beverage thing just led me into spirits and naturally just 15:34 kind of evolved and got 15:36 naturally just start a secondary group. 15:40 I mean, we can get into that. And that that was a that was mostly because of back when you like we were talking about 2014. You heard of the group, she if you were in like bourbon info exchange, people will talk about it. But you got to know somebody to get in. I didn't know. I didn't know anything. You know, I was like, screw it. You know, I woke up at like, five in the morning Didn't you know, I was like, I couldn't get back to sleep. Like, I'm just I'm going to do it. Public, you know, all these secret groups. Why do you know why not? and it blew up. And I immediately became the guru and I didn't know it. People send me. They just assumed because I created this group. I knew everything. Yeah. So you know, they send a picture of this to me, what is this? How much is it worth? I have no idea. You know, like, Yeah, what is it? So all I do is Google. What is it? And I got educated, self educated on all the dust DS and fake it to every naked, you know? Yeah. I mean, I wanted to learn myself, I was intrigued by Why is, you know, why are people paying, you know, so? And then it just, it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And, you know, yeah, it didn't stop people rioted, that I let it be not secret, or, you know, and not bringing it to the forefront. And I think it did a lot. I mean, I think it affected the industry a good. 17:01 Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think I think that's what the secondary does. I mean, there's there's 17:05 brands that get like, totally thank the secondary model. Yeah, they're like, 17:09 I mean, yeah, I mean, it helps them evaluate exactly what they have in and maybe they start realizing everything's undervalued. Like, yeah, that was the that's probably the biggest thing. Communities had a huge impact on the black culture like do you think like old scout and like them county would ever be a thing without a bourbon secondary market? like it'd be tough to say yeah, I really would be it even be tougher to say that. Even would would group pics or store pics even have a place to be that are becoming that are, I guess you'd say sought after? Yeah. Because if you see something, and it's it's, it's got a group name on it, you're like, Oh, I immediately have that I've never seen it before. I remember for myself coming on to the secondary market with the first time. I remember seeing the Willett family estate bottles, just, you know, just the regular ones. And this is right as right as when the foil tops started taking over. So they're still wax ones in circulation. And I'm like, I've never seen these bottles before. I've never really seen them before. And so I'm I'm sitting there, I'm always going around the stores, trying to check them out. Trying to find these, you know, 10 910 14 year will family states. And I'm getting one in like Northern Kentucky. Like, I don't know, probably in late 2014, late early 2015 from the party source. But I didn't know like the whole entire time I could have just been driving to Bardstown. I mean, the whole time I could have been doing that. And so it was it was an edge. It's an educational experience as well for people that come into it. And just another education experience. I remember everybody's got their their Blanton story. You find Blanton's, you start learning about he learned about the letters in the horses in the bottle shape, and you come and trade with it. And then you learn out like, Oh my god, there's a barrel proof version. But you can't get the United States. How do I get my hands on it? 18:55 Like, how do you get a whole barrel on it? 19:00 It's exactly I mean, that's exactly like the the curiosity that gets sparked out of a community like this. So kind of talk about the hyper growth of what it was. And were there any kind of growing pains along with it. There were too many growing pains. It was just 19:20 occasionally we get to a point where like, I guess some of that some admins are like, Man, I'm having a baby now I don't have time for this. You know, I think it's kind of weird. Having admins leave because they they they really feel like they're getting noticed that a job. One of them like, Man, I've been trying to tell you this for a month now. 19:43 I don't care what kind of severance 19:45 do yeah, like, 19:47 I need an extra. 19:49 But uh, so yeah, it's only growing pains as as it got bigger. We just had to take on more admins. So what would you say you started start? 20 20:00 1415? And now how many about how many members are roughly? 20:04 About 35,000 35,000? 20:06 Yeah. 20:08 So do you have like a certain amount admins part? Thousand? Do you have like a like ratio 20:14 already have a certain amount of admins and time zones? Okay. That makes looking for West Coast because, you know, and then there's other things that we look for? What do they do during the day? Are you like a firefighter? Are you sitting in a firehouse for hours on end doing nothing but looking at Facebook or your hair? You know, really tech industry? Yeah. But, uh, so that's one of those are some of the things. And one of the things I told everybody, I was like, we don't want to hire anybody that actually comes to us and says they want to do it. Because then, you know, we actually did hire a guy that it you know, there's no wrong, you know, 20:57 some ulterior motive and, 20:59 and we there was, and but, you know, and it's just kind of a, you really got to be level headed, and most importantly, thick skin. Because if I mean, essentially, Europe, a boss of, I want to, I won't say it's a company, but I've, you know, you have to create these rules to keep the riffraff out. And then someone breaks one. And you're like, well, you broke the rules. Sorry, you got to go. But, and they've been drinking all night, and they're pissed. And then they, they've got to, you know, create a spoof accounts of your own Facebook or, you know, I had one admin leave because his kids were pictured him pictures of him and his kid were posted everywhere on their fake account, just like really, you know, sleazy stuff, but, I mean, it's, I mean, I kind of, I don't care what people say, doesn't bother me too much. You know, I just decided to keep doing what I'm doing. 21:57 Yeah, I mean, I guess it is tough. Because you're dealing in a market where these aren't, these aren't grandma's that are just knitting sweaters. Like these are, these are, these are, for the most part, a lot of grown men drink whiskey, and 22:11 it's an online bar, they have 22:13 seniors, and they have opinions. And they're very strong about them, too. And they 22:17 have a lot of liquid courage. That 22:20 in when you when you're behind the screen, and a keyboard that amplifies liquid courage is there's no repercussions really, except maybe a message back. 22:28 I mean, I've gotten into arguments online with people, you know, and then met them in person here. One guy, I, you know, he's his name will call him bow. And he came up here with Jamie from Lincoln Road, and we went to I went to a bourbon tasting that night and hung out with him. And you know, ha, mon, and I was like, Oh, hell, you know, me and him really got into it. And we went out drinking. I was playing Jamie and ping pong. He was cheering me on. He was all on my side. But the third bar was get to He's like, I go up to him. I was like, Can we bury this online hatchet, and he's like, Oh, we have a beef online. I was like, Yeah, he's like, what's your last name? I'm like, pow. Just started cousin. Oh. 23:16 Yeah, man. 23:19 God, I mean, he's a good guy. But so it's one of those things. It's like, Oh, they hate you. They hate you. But if you actually meet them in person, pretty much everybody's good people. But behind that keyboard, liquid current. Oh, yeah. FUFQFU. You know, you're the devil, you ruined bourbon. 23:34 Why do you think why do you think people do like have that animosity? I mean, it's and I know that you end up having to not post under your own personal accounts anymore. You do an inner page account to try and kind of hide and make sure the admins aren't aren't necessarily targeted anymore. So why is it that I mean, at this point, you are the godfather of the BSNV. Like that's, I think it's everybody love 23:59 that title, everybody. Hey, 24:01 everybody kind of understands your name. And when they see it, like, like, anytime it happens, like there's their posts, flurry that happens, but there's also some people that that hates you for no reason. Do you? Any idea? 24:13 I think it now, no, not really. I mean, I kind of see it as like, I know, I guess kind of the culture that everybody's gone through in the last six years of, you know, they don't care what they bought, you know, they've already made up their mind. They they're going to judge you for whatever it is that they think is true. And if they're presented with facts about the actual situation, you know, cognitive dissonance just goes in and they don't, you know, right ever, you know, yeah, I could be Mother Teresa. 24:51 You know, you ruin burden. If mother 24:53 teresa Rana face well, and when you're, 24:55 you're, you know, you're you're separated by a screen and you're not looking and talking to each. It really? Yeah, because you take the human element out of it is that you're like, you know, you can't it's if I'm sitting here Yeah, I'm not gonna yell at you for in person, but it might be a little easier. 25:12 Well, you know, I've never met you. I don't know you. I don't care. Right? Exactly. Yep, for sure. 25:21 So let's let's kind of talk about the rules a little bit because the one thing about bsm is that you're in compared to other groups like it's, it's a lot of like, no nonsense, like, this is what you're here for. You're here to buy bid. And that's it, like, no talk, no discussion. So kind of talk about the rules that that were in place and why they made them place like that. 25:42 So the the no discussions came up in a lot of rules were just formed by some of them sending me a pm saying, why don't you do this. And one of them was, I hate seeing discussions, when I'm only here to buy or look for something in particular. And the group's gotten so big, just, you got rid of it, I mean, then go somewhere else. And I was like, that's a great point, you know, bourbon or, or info, exchange, go there and talk about it. Here. We're one thing. So that's how that that happened. In a lot of the rules just were developed as we evolved. And just, I mean, people wanted it a certain way, it was mostly majority ruled on how things evolved, you know, from other groups and 26:26 stuff like that. And then you also have the secondary site that was doing kind of like raffles and all that sort of stuff. How did that sort of spin out and become its own separate thing? 26:38 saying basically, same thing, it's it's mucking up what a majority of people were there for. So it was like, we were just here for the bourbon, we want to buy it. That's what I want to I don't like gambling. I don't want you know, it's it's mucking up my area. So in the whole gambling thing, aspect, that's like a whole nother of great legal things that's going on. Doing a couple of things wrong there. And so I mean, that's that was just a separate it, you know, kind of 27:07 one of the first ones to do raffling different department. 27:10 I can't remember. I mean, I saw there was there was somebody in the community. I know that ran a group for a while he has since passed on. There not don't name names. Yeah, just for the sake of it. I mean, I remember it was red balls or whatever. Yeah, red balls or something like that. I forget. But there was there was there was those days and it I don't know like for I'll pass it to you guys. What would you rather do? Would you rather sit there and gamble on something or buy it outright if it's something you want? 27:40 Well, at first it was I won like my like first, like, like one out of 30. So I was like, This is amazing. Proceed to lose like 50 X in a row. And so then I quickly realized that let's just not a gamble. And let's just take the money that you would gamble and buy what you actually want and get it so it I'd rather much buy it now 28:02 then do it. I like I don't gamble at all with it. So I mean, I had no interest in in that help separate it too. And mostly the group ran it's the raffle group ran itself. And then people started getting crazy. We'll do a bottle bus was put in a bottle and then and then they're all gambling. So then they start someone owes someone a bottle, then they gamble with that bottle before it's even been shipped. And then it's like a cluster of who owns what where it was, you know, it's just like, so 28:34 it's it's kind of like I'm ready to double down. I didn't ever believe in those randomized. Like, I just still don't like mega ball ones. You know, it's like public knowledge. What's What's the number? Yeah. 28:47 So you were talking about just you know, who has what bottle and whatnot. I know that there are there's always disputes. kind of talk about what happens or how does the dispute come about sometimes? 29:03 A lot of times the biggest popcorn, 29:05 right. Explain popcorn to for people that don't understand that. 29:08 Yeah, remember? Yeah, explain. Because when I first saw you see like coronas and popcorn. And I'm like, What is all this mean? Like, yeah, go over the targets for the 29:17 words just means at the end of five minutes to go and your auction that you've created. If someone bids in that five minutes last five minutes, it extends the auction another five. And it just helps. You know, people are watching TV at home and 10 o'clock at night and they forget. Oh, someone did it. I can get in and you know, so it helped push it along and drive up the price but kind of stops that a little bit of the the eBay sniping kind of riots it does. You know if that happened, kindness, just Continental United State, cheap way to our easy way to say I'm paying for your shipping. I don't know where the the list of all the acronyms were created. came from somewhere before bsm came around and years before that. So you know there's I mean, those groups have been going around for 30:08 Yeah, I love the i's and T's and 30:11 GCS. Yeah, you gotta learn everything. That's I think that's, that's almost like a rite of passage we are getting into the bourbon world is that if you if you go to somebody and you start talking all this vernacular, and they don't understand that you're like, 30:24 welcome to the club. I think I won like an auction. And then I didn't realize what popcorn was. And somebody when I was like, wait a minute, I wanted it's time it went off, you know, but I didn't understand the rules. And it's kind of like read roll 13.0 and I was like, Oh, okay. Not this one in your videos. Another one. 30:41 I just discovered one. Last week, some South Carolina guys came up. And they were calling old Weller antique Ola. And I'm like, I've only heard it. Oh, da, I guess it's a, you know, different level. I've always heard of ODA, but apparently everywhere else they call it Oh, my God. You know, the vernacular, 31:01 it changes. That's for sure. Yep. So So kind of talking about what happens in a dispute, like what Ryan said, If there is, if there is something that somebody bids, but then somebody says like, nope, nope, it's over. Like, how, how does it when does an admin need to get involved in a situation? 31:18 Well, we wrote the rules. So hopefully, that they don't have to get an admin involved. But and they can people can will, you know, show the rules. It didn't, you didn't win it. Because here's the rule. It says, you know, after five minutes, it's over of no bidding. So, you know, you can check the timestamp of someone posting in that and determine if you actually did bit in time or not. So, I mean, things like that. If they're disputed, it might be well, the package says delivered, but it's not on my front porch, whereas Well, I know where it is. Someone stole it, you know, 31:54 who handles that part? 31:56 I mean, and you've even got the the drivers might steal it. I've had that happen. I know. You know, I was waiting for a package and excited that it was coming and got a notification that it was delivered in like, No, it wasn't, I'm literally by the front door. never showed up. So I bitter about that. FedEx. 32:13 Yeah. But I mean, is there is there a reason that admins have to step in the in a situation like that when a package is lost? Like 32:22 a? Not? Yes. Because usually the guy that ships it, they're responsible until it says delivered. And, or if it breaks during shipping, you know, the guy might open the package, and it's all busted. And he's like, Hey, this is broken, or the seal broke, and it's a collector's item, and I want it in mint condition. They'll they'll accuse, you know, the seller might accuse them of tampering with it, they just want a free bottle out of me or, you know, they're lying. This is bowl, you know, 32:54 Haven, they just have blue bears the liability and the Alicia Burton tell 32:58 if it's broken up, it's okay. You threw in, you know, three pieces of newspapers packing material, and it's broken, you know, come over here. Yeah, you know, and then a lot of the packaging suggestions that I gave actually came I used to work in a UPS hub one summer in Lexington. And I mean, I literally saw packages falling 30 feet concrete floor off these conveyor belts that get jammed up, and they just pack just are overflowing and just falling crashing down. So I was like, immediately, okay, I know how to pack a bottle from now, you know, you can't overpack in, you know, you really should you know it. Things like that happen all the time. So, it just, 33:39 I prefer their bottle packs their 33:42 wine wine bottle shipper things. 33:44 Yeah. Cool until I someone's like, showed me a bottle that they just, it kind of gives a false sense of security. Yeah. And they don't they don't throw anything else in there. And 33:54 well, y'all will have one of those in and then I put the popcorn around it or not popcorn, whatever. The styrofoam plate Stockholm, peanuts, peanuts. 34:02 Yeah. So in that situation, it's it's kind of it's up to the buyer to try to make it right. In a situation like that. Now, we've also seen it in some of the How 34:12 do you make it right, though? 34:13 Like, it's it's either reading under. 34:16 So if it's broken, it's refund the money if, if the tech strips broken world, it's kind of like you ask the buyer? Did you buy it to drink it? Or did you buy it to throw it on your massive wall? And, you know, whatever the answer is usually, okay. Well, then we take $50 for the, you know, crack seal, right? or something, you know, because 34:38 you're going to drink up to them to figure out the Yeah. 34:42 Yeah, we direct them to figure it out themselves got 34:45 you're not like the Better Business Bureau where they're like, they're like, have a dispute. And 34:50 you don't you don't have to resolve and 34:52 that's it. I was I was gonna think they're like a mediation court. You will, you know, like, you're going like husband and wife are going through divorce. Let's get together. No room real quick. 35:02 Yeah, I've had that quite a bit, actually. People add their wives to the group, and then immediately regret it. Because you know, their wives mad at them. They're always on their phone. wife gets in there sees how much they're spending on it, then it's like, well, you kick my wife out. Know that you got to do figure that out on your own. I'm not getting in the middle of that. And then divorces have come up. No way. Oh, yeah. Like, those wives know how much that collections worth. And you're getting into a divorce for whatever you did wrong, or whatever happened. That's, you know, needs to be split up. So then they want me to kick their wives out so they can let them know what they're selling or, you know, just like crazy. It's like, I'm not No, sorry. Sorry about your luck. you dug your hole. You know, that's my, my problem. Well, I didn't know that. There's a lot of that's something that I think about I think I 35:51 might add my wife to it because because being part of the podcast and I'm like, I gotta you gotta have a pulse on what's happening. So you know, exactly uninvite jacket. 36:03 I forgot she had it sees. 36:05 So I guess another thing is, you know, there's a, there's another thing that always happens, these groups that people call out other people, they'll say, you know, they'll tag and say like, Jimmy Joe, he's, he's a, he's a shifted, he's not he has a, you 36:19 know, good pair. 36:20 Well, I know that are like, I bought something. And then it's been two weeks, and he hasn't shipped it out. And he's not responding back to messages. Like, is that the right thing to do? Or is it like, 36:32 the worst thing to do? If If there's something going on, sometimes there's something actually happened, man, I've been in the hospital. That happens, it happened to me once and I had to take a picture of my armband and send it to do I'll ship your bottle out, it's just going to be a little while I don't know when. But uh, usually someone's if they might be scamming Omen or something like that. calling them out is the worst thing is he'll just piss them off. And if they have a conscience, and we're going to actually they messed up and they were actually having attention to get get you back, well, our refund you or something, calling them out, just ruined your chances. Best thing is to conduct admin and say, Hey, this is what's going on. And then we can reach up and I mean, I'll just send a message, Hey, yo, this bottle what's going on, you know, not a no accusations, I want to hear your side because a lot of times, there's, it's not their fault or something, you know, whatever. So, I mean, you do have to be diplomatic and not assume whatever you're being told is that the whole story and go to the other side. And most the time, it works out fine. And they solve the problem. Occasionally, someone just, you know, turned into a drug addict and is stealing or, you know, ripping people off. But we've done a good job of like letting people into the group, it tells you when like when someone tries to join the group, it tells you how pretty much everything where they where they live? Are they a member of any other groups that you're a member of? Are they friends with anybody? How windows? When did they create the Facebook page or in just all kinds of things? So if you're just created this in the last year, you're not getting? You know, if you're created the Facebook in the last two years? Why did you just create Facebook? And you know, all right. 38:30 around for a while, I know you're in your mid 30s? You 38:33 should know Yeah, exactly. So the and so we will have them prove their identity. Sometimes if their accounts really, you know, just send us a photo, a picture of your photo, Id block out all your pertinent information, we just need to see you actually who you are, you know, somebody that you're not afraid to. And now these days, you can if you have that information, just like a name and a city. You can find them on their address, every relative for free note, you know, not some search site, white pages. com. It's all 39:06 out there. So it's like LinkedIn work. So if you ever add accusations of counterfeits or frauds. 39:15 Hey, it's Kenny here and I want to tell you about the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you stroll the banks along the scenic Kentucky River. There's also going to be food vendors from regional award winning chefs. Plus you get to meet the master distillers and brand ambassadors you've heard on the show, but the kicker is bourbon pursuit. We're going to be there in our very own booth as well. Your $65 ticket includes everything all food and beverage on Saturday. Plus, you can come on Friday for the free Bourbon Street on Broadway event. Don't wait, go and buy your tickets now at bourbon on the banks.org. There are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever before. So how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? Rockhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in 40 states and rockhouses June box they're featuring a distillery that claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey rackhouse whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from there, including its beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye, both of which were finished in barrels that were once used to mature America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged stout. And if you're a beer guy like me, you would know that's New Holland dragon milk, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 41:03 Have you ever had accusations of counterfeits or frauds? 41:06 And the BS showing in the group? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, there's, there's been that. And there's been people that have done it that we just thought I like I went to this guy's house and got a bottle off of them. About a single project for 60 bucks or something. And house he's living in a $400,000 house in which in Louisville is pretty good sized house 30,000 square feet or so maybe bigger, nice part of town comes from a wealthy family, well known family. And you just wouldn't think he would be doing that. But I you know, who knows what motivates people to commit fraud? 41:45 So in a situation like that, where people have been wrongs, for say, like buying a buying a counterfeit on the page? Is there any? 41:57 Right? How does it How does it go about to try and make people whole or anything like that it's like, man like this is this is a black market, you get what you get immediate action from an admin is if that accusation is made, we immediately ban you, or stop you from being able to because we don't want to keep, you know, until we find out what's really going on. And there's been times where, yeah, I bought that. Yeah, I sold him that bottle. I got it from this guy who's also in the group in this transaction. And you can see me buying that tree. Yeah, and you know, and then it's like a, these bottles have been passed around for 10 people in the same group in three months. You know, 42:33 that's what I always say about the secondary, it's like, it all just stays in the group. Like, it's, it's like, we're all transferring and firing the same bottles. Like, it's funny how they pass around that. So 42:42 yeah, there's, I mean, there's some guys out there that do incredible work chasing these people down and finding out where the counterfeits are coming and how they're happening. And and 42:55 they're those five fighters or send on 42:58 Facebook every day. Well, I mean, it's just good that there's people like that, that they find enjoyment out of doing it, right. And they they either they find enjoyment, or it's maybe they're doing it to protect their own ass, because they do have a very large stake in bourbon. And they've got to make sure that what they have is still keeping its value as it goes. So two sides of that coin. Now, there's also times that we just talked about that people finagle people out of money. Somebody says buy it now you say sure sounds good. Take your PayPal, Facebook account deleted, I've got my money and run. What do you what do you do to help? Or is there a way to help those buyers either become whole? Or is it kind of like, Man, that's it? 43:41 Sorry? I'm hanging out with PayPal? 43:45 Is there a BSM community pool? where people are refunded like No, I mean, it's interrupt your own risk type of thing. I mean, there's not really a safeguard to protect you. And we tried to hope, prevent as much as we can by screening the people that come in there. But there's, I mean, there's an inherent risk, you're gonna, you have to assume when you go into it, yeah, especially, what's your legal recourse at that point to? Well, we're gonna go, you're gonna, you know, it's kind of like, tell me what, Wise Guys, you know, what are you gonna do about it? 44:19 You gotta kind of look at the history of you know, those trends, 44:22 right, and the whole vouching for what they're building? Yeah, I need a reference Jacqueline, this dude that, you know, yeah, that helps a lot. 44:30 In speaking of something like that, I just kind of thought of this to, you know, when you started this group, you also started in a way that was a lot different than others. Some other ones, like the old days, that's not around, which was BX people would go in there and they would post bottles, and you would, they wouldn't be transparent. It would say, like, you want to sip or you want to taste and that means it's for sale, or if it's for trade, and you would be post in the comments, or whatever it is, and everything what happened through PM, right? When when you built this site, it was almost completely opposite. It's like, full transparency, open market sort of thing. What was the idea of doing that versus kind of like keeping it behind these sort of like, secret code words? 45:15 One I didn't, I didn't know about the code words, because I wasn't able to get into those. And that's the whole reason it was created. And the whole transparency thing, you know, as like, after I started it, and it was starting to take off. I was like, What is Facebook's policy on this? So I found it. And it literally said, You must be at least 18 years old to buy alcohol, you know, sell alcohol and buy it on Facebook? And I'm just kind of scratching my head, okay. Oh, maybe they're just seeing it as an international company. And well, we're not really in it. And then it changed to 21 then it they said, Okay, now you can't do it. On marketplace, and now it's a at all so we'll see what happens. And I think I lot of that most recent changes, probably has to do with the legal trouble. Facebook and Zuckerberg or or in with the Justice Department and their his emails were leaked, and he might be in a lot of trouble. So I think Facebook legal team is just like, okay, no more chicken groups and gun groups, like, whatever, all these crazy little white, there's chicken group. There's like cockfighting and stuff. No, like, what are they like? Not heirloom. But, you know, crazy breeds of chickens that like rednecks are collecting that happened, really, but they don't they don't they don't let it pass for everything. I was like, I remember a secondary market like it like a like a Facebook 46:42 ad that said, like, find your people like there's there's groups for everybody. And I didn't know that. 46:48 So I just heard about that. Because I mean, when groups get shut down there, apparently there really is a history like a what Facebook normally does, and they take out the big one, and then they let it because all these groups, you know, all these little sub small groups, all those people are usually in the biggest group. So take out the biggest group and everyone will find out and maybe they'll go away or whatever. The term. Yeah, now I gotta roll down here. 47:17 I mean, in this also, like, I know, there was a huge opioid crisis that was happening through Facebook as well. I mean, there's people buy sell trade, you know, illegal drugs and stuff. I mean, those those groups go fast. But that's, that's sort of the way that the world works, I guess. And then so another way that those was a lot different from other groups as well. So there was another group that's it's still out there today. So I'm not going to put a name to it. But they always wanted to try and keep a record of, of transactions and sales, and it was all done online. And that's kind of what also fueled bottle Blue Book calm and everything like that. So kind of talk about why you said like, or just said, like, I'm not gonna, we'll just like, if you want to know, something, just research search it, right, instead of having to own a catalog or an Excel spreadsheet. 48:13 Yeah, it won't, I don't want to maintain it. Is 48:18 I mean, it doesn't pay anything to sit here and you know, play around on it. 48:21 Yeah. But the other thing is that also, you know, that that data was also used in some research studies to actually see how the prices of bourbon had been affected from years of just, you know, actually having a particular bottle and seeing how evaluated over the years, seeing how different types of bottles, you know, changed in value over the years. 48:43 Yeah, what was it like the average return was like, 200% on in, like, just a two year span? Something like that. Yeah, 48:50 it was crazy. I mean, some maintenance sucks. That's, 48:53 yeah, I just didn't want to spend time doing it. But in I felt like bottle blue, but does a really good job of you know, I don't I haven't been on there and years and but just because the history and in my group got so big, I didn't need to, and it was probably more current, because 49:09 you can search any, like thing, right? stir the group? 49:14 Yeah, if you can, if you can just run the search button and know you right, or exactly know how to filter. I mean, you can you can find pretty much anything but yeah, there was, I don't know really who's running pooper. So if somebody like us yet, there's another transaction and BSMNE to go and enter this NL 49:29 introduced into the toilet. Like, I'm always wondering, like Wikipedia, like, it's crowdfunding, like, Who the hell goes takes your time to fill out a Wikipedia page? You know, I'm 49:38 sure there's a lot of people out there. I mean, if you have a 49:41 if you have passion towards that topic, 49:43 exactly. I mean, I guess 49:45 it also has with Wikipedia, you get I mean, it's like a credibility and a point system, like, it says, you know, like Ryan Cecil did this, right? So so you get you get a little little badge or a star on your shoulder, I guess you could say, if you want to do that. 50:00 One thing I wanted to bring up and wild turkeys a good example. How the market affect your like, we hinted at it, but how the secondary market helps companies see where their brands going. I was doing a barrel pick at wild turkey several years ago. And I was talking to Eddie about the secondary market. He's like, yeah, I'm in that group. I love watching those bottles and what they sell for, you know, like, really, he's like, Yeah, and I got to thinking, I was like, you know, your name's not in my group. So he's under some, I don't know what he's under. But uh, and then I got to thinking about wild turkey in their high end premium brands that they release. They don't like, they don't work. They're out on the shelf at 350. And they might sit there for up to a year, but it'll finally all sell. He feel like they see these brands nudging up and know, okay, we put it out here, we'll be able to maximize our profits and smart business in my opinion, but 51:01 it is it is a way that companies can gauge what's happening. Yeah, I mean, it's, 51:07 it's totally, totally took off the secondary market to raise raise prices, both heaven hills doing it, everybody's doing it. They see the value? Well, it's the first ones that were like, all right. We don't image that. Yeah, 51:20 well, I mean, the other thing is, is when you look at just what these Facebook groups are able to do in general is is it not only just helps with value, but also helps with prediction of the changing consumer? Like what do what do all these people, what are they gravitating towards? I'm sure you can look at the stats that happens when you sell a pallet to a distributor, and that distributor gets it out to the the stores. But it's kind of hard to kind of track that data and you kind of hard to see like what people are saying about it, however, you go to an online forum. And you see some kind of like, let's take like Bill need honey, for example. Like, I saw honey, and I kind of like whatever, honey, 52:02 yeah, flavored whiskey, and then 52:04 and then all of a sudden, you know, in Nashville is a whole other thing. You get this whole group in Nashville that that seems to kind of create other little like a tornado of, of I don't know what you would call it, but somehow they're able to hype a lot of stuff up. And now bill need honey trades for like four or 500 bucks. And I'm like, how, how is this even possible? Because I wouldn't I wouldn't have find myself like particularly interested in it. But if you look at what the market does and what it's valued at, they're probably like, Oh, shit, we better add some more honey, these barrels, you know, I don't really know, like, that's a process. But it's a way that they can see they can gauge exactly what what consumers are gravitating towards. So yeah, for sure, another way to look at it. So there's a there's another kind of way to if we if we look at the the group that you had built as well, there's particularly one, maybe there's a few others of distilleries that you've banned from being inside the group, as well as like, these bottles are not allowed to be traded. You know, we don't need to give them a platform and say like, let's talk about who that is. But is there a reason why that you would go through and say, I think we need to put our foot down and we shouldn't have these type of bottles be on here or on my market? 53:18 Yeah, so one, we're bourbon secondary market. So we keep it it just whiskey. There, though, I guess one that everybody knows. And it's thinking about, we I, I was getting really pissed off at all the people that were thread shooting on, every time one of these bottles came up, as I got in, and they're just, I didn't even know what they were fighting over. I just got tired of hearing about it. And then I heard there might be market manipulation, and I was just like, screw it band. And then I heard about all these things coming out about someone going in and doing a barrel pic with the secret camera and, and trash cans and whatever. I was like, I didn't know that. And then of course, everybody assumed was that, you know, I was just tired of having to admin, my own group, like shutting people up. And people get in fights and yelling, and just like, We're not here for that, you know, it was just like, just ban it get rid of and then it 54:22 took off and 54:23 be like, what's your motive? 54:24 And then the gifts come out? Right? There's always the gift stream of how 54:30 but only wrong. There's a lot of funny pictures. Oh, yeah, 54:33 kids that are very creative. 54:37 If you can just like add some good laughs Oh, yeah. 54:41 So the other thing is, if we look at the time that's invested into this 54:47 time is time is very valuable time is very valuable to all of all we're 54:51 equal, let 54:52 it all have equal time and it's in it's in for I think a lot of people out there they take it, they take it for granted, the amount of time that you've probably invested into this group over over five years now. And last time I checked, you weren't collecting a paycheck from a warrior. Nope. So what what's the motivation behind going through it and continuing to do this without seeing any kind of upside, per se? 55:21 One, it's, it's a passionate hobby of mine and every other admin in there, there are some incentive or benefits to it. Like someone comes to town they know they know who you are, they know you live here. They want to hang out and share samples with you or bring you some samples or mail you samples. Get that all the time. You know, we don't even we don't pay for it. It's that nice and fun. But 55:50 I mean, there's no 55:53 it's really kind of easy, and especially if you're like working a job. So a lot of I used to manage a liquor store. A lot of time I'd be just it's just sitting there and doing nothing. I mean, it's shelves are stocked, okay, we're good. Now you're just waiting for customers, and it was a slower store. So get your phone out of time. A lot of time here, you know. So, I mean, what else am I going to do? You know, just watch cat videos are 56:21 still fun, but I'm more interested in bourbon. 56:25 Morrison getting yelled at? 56:26 Yeah, nice people in the area. 56:29 Yeah, start fights for out of nothing. It's a bourbon of all things. But just funny and amazing. Like how people getting arguments over bourbon. Like there's, there's just so much like, yeah, we'll get into heated debate, whether it's about a particular bottle or whether somebody prices some sex. Yeah, good question. What do you do in a situation where somebody accidentally prices something? We've seen it, we've seen it both ways. They'll say way to live got this happy? 15 I'm going to put a for sale for 2500. And then the laugh emoji start coming every day that's coming. What do you do in that sort of sense? You 57:06 know, there's, there's kind of a range of All right, I'm just gonna delete your post because you're an idiot, or you're just going to piss off everybody, you know, 2500 for whatever the bottle goes for now. You know, if it's $1,000 too much, you're probably going to get delete, because I know what's gonna. But if you You know, I've seen the opposite where Pappy 23 170 someone you know, 10 people Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben bit, you know, and then they want to hold 57:39 zero 57:40 exactly what was clear that you were not trying to short yourself that much money, you know, 57:44 yeah, so selling it below the cost of even retail, you 57:48 know, I'm not being that nice of a guy and you're being an asshole. So it's like, no, you're not getting your free bottle of Pappy basically. So. But yeah, I mean, so there's a if it's just if it's too much. I mean, I've seen it where it's like $100 too much and they're still losing it and it's then we do actually kind of manage it and just mute everybody. All right. You said something, you know you redshirted me your digital duct tape for three days? 58:14 Yeah. 58:15 Is there actually like a like a thing where you're like you're because I've never actually added a group before? Is there really a like a button that you can say like you're you're cut for 10 days or something? You didn't you're 58:26 just like three options? No way that's awesome. Three days seven days Really? Okay. And depending on how I feel that day, you 58:36 know, it's it's just progressively gotten worse. 58:38 seven day max punishment. 58:41 Alright, you didn't break like Facebook rolls so you're not out of the group, but come on. 58:46 And then there's there's the other side of this where there's somebody that posts like a mixers 20 for will say like 1000 bucks, right when that's easily an 1800 dollar bottle or 2000 or something like that. So what happens if they accidentally undervalue it? And it's not an obscene and it's not an obscene value like a they 59:09 they literally know. 59:12 we owed it to them. And usually when they realize like someone tells them you just lost $800 you could have had 1800 dollars or something whatever. They'll just disappear from the group by themselves you know 59:27 that that point is like no harm no foul like you're you're faster the trigger on their keyboard but that's about all we can give you right now. 59:33 Yeah, exactly. 59:36 And so sometimes hold people hold up themselves to the boat you know all right, honor it Damn it. I don't I don't want to but sometimes they swallow their pride 59:45 now hopefully somebody like returns something in their favor to or if they cry it opens them a sample or something like that that'd be old 59:52 least which is IRA karma. 59:54 That is true thing I mean, there's bourbon karma out there there's people talk about all the time you know, you have somebody find a bottle you ship somebody something you send them somebody a sample, hopefully the karma God's smile down on you and you go walk into middle of nowhere Oklahoma, you stumble upon an old dusty turkey or something, you know, like, that's the truth thing. Now, there was also I think it was maybe a few years back. It was around Christmas time in did the community come together and like by the admins, some, like some Van Winkle or something like that. 1:00:26 I remember that. Yeah, so that wasn't actually in my group. Oh, no, that's fine. So everybody wanted to Dave on the back for being a great admin and he got a bottle of Pappy 29 I didn't know about it. And someone saw that and was like, we should do it for Oh, and I'm like, No, just donate $20 to charity or something. Don't send me a bottle. That's not what I'm quit bother me. I'm done. I'm not trying to you know, I don't need a handout. Not that it was that I mean, but it until after the fact you 1:01:01 know, I just literally and then so kind of going back and looking at this whole thing of you know, in time is time is very valuable for for a lot of people as you start going down this path and in everybody's got careers outside of just bourbon least hopefully most your friends. I mean, well, I mean, I met outside of like flipping bourbon. Right? Right. So everybody's everybody's hopefully has some career and flipping bourbon just isn't it. But that's, that's what kind of go backwards or time is valuable. And you look at it, you say like I built up a network of 50,000 people? What if I was able to charge like $5 per person per year for dues in that would go towards? I don't know what it would go towards, like, if it is to like actually help with the time that value that spent or whether it goes into like an insurance bunker for 1:01:51 bottles? How many people don't think is instantly enough? Sorry, charging depends now and how many active out of 50 that would even know that are? 1:02:00 can probably see that data. But the thing is that would that setting could only work off of Facebook. And so when Facebook bands up, you know, kicks every all of it off the Facebook, that might actually happen. Not necessarily for me. I don't want to do it anymore. But it might I mean, it might be a good vessel. But the problem with that is everybody loves to get up their phone. Look, I mean, me, I don't say they love it, but they do it. They get out their phone, they start scrolling through Facebook, they see grandma, they see someone else's kid. Yeah, I see bourbon in usually my newsfeed that's the only way. I just see bourbon bourbon bourbon. And I'm sure a lot of y'all can. 1:02:45 That's the only reason I keep Facebook Like I loved it when you could only have the group app. And you didn't have to have the Facebook app you could just do. And then they made everything go to the Facebook app. And it was like, you could just totally keep your cool. Yeah, it's 1:02:59 so good. 1:03:01 People off of loan to a whole nother website. It's going to be a challenge. And so setting that up. That's a lot of work. And I mean, you better have some really good reason for people to go there, you know, and how you got to make it worth their while to go there. 1:03:19 Yeah, that's true. I mean, it is it is hard to try and monetize a platform like 1:03:23 this, because it's the path of least resistance you don't face because people are already there. 1:03:28 It's against Facebook rules to actually try that or do that. 1:03:32 No, well, you can't export the group lists, like on the spreadsheet. 1:03:36 You can everyone move over? Well, 1:03:39 knowing that then I guess that rules that out? Yeah, I was just trying to think of a way that you know, you could you could try to try to, you know, make it worth the time. That's that's actually invested. But it sounds like it because granted this This is by far the biggest group. But it is not the only group. I mean, there's probably I mean, there's got to be upwards of hundreds now. Not only just just markets where

Steve and Jeremy speak to Bourbon on the Banks Festival organizer Wendy Kobler about her event August 22-24 on the banks of the Kentucky River in Frankfort, Kentucky. Get your tickets at: bourbononthebanks.org. Today’s show was sponsored by the ABV Network’s Patreon Campaign (patreon.com/theabvnetwork). Intro music (Welcome to the Show) and outro music (That’s A Wrap) are both by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the ABV Network Revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

A warehouse disaster is a large concern for the bourbon industry, but some people in the community make jokes and laugh at the situation. Should this be considered normal? Heaven Hill phased out their 6 Year Bottled in Bond product that was a true bargain brand to many bourbon consumers and launched a very similar product with a 3X price increase. Was this a good move by Heaven Hill? Are they competing in a high price bracket? Did they just cannibalize their own products? Is this the first #KentuckySnub? We tackle all this and more on Bourbon Community Roundtable #34. Show Partners: Every batch Barrell Craft Spirits produces has a distinct flavor profile. They take pride in blending and preserving spirits for the people who enjoy them the most, you. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order at Rackhouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week Ryan talks about launching a bourbon brand. Look for a new segment called Whiskey Quickie launching next week. Brian Harra’s Sazerac Brands v. Peristyle: Bourbon History Matters as a Matter of Law - https://brianhaaracom.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/haara-bourbon-history-matters-as-a-matter-of-law-ky-jeanrl-2019.pdf Jim Beam Warehouse Fire Heaven Hill 7-Year Bottled-in-Bond Was it the right move to discontinue 6-Year BIB and relaunch with 7-Year at a higher price point? Do you think this product competes with the Woodford and Knob Creek price point? Is Heaven Hill competing against themselves? Why wouldn't Heaven Hill launch in Kentucky on day one? How do you best support retailers that elevate prices for hard to find bottles? 0:00 My wife was like, I was like remember I got a podcast. She said ugh that's so annoying. 0:07 Didn't you just do one of those round tables and I'm like that was last month. 0:23 Hey everybody it is Episode 209 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny in the bourbon news cycle it moves quick. What's Trending one day is going to become pretty stale soon. And I'm sure many of you are like myself wanna bourbon warehouse collapses or when 45,000 barrels of bourbon go up in flames from a lightning strike at a gym be warehouse. We probably get a lot of messages in our inbox about it. And I kind of want to focus on this and say, where are we at today on the current situation. So on july fourth, the Woodford County Fire Department waited to extinguish the fire for a few days because as they said, there is less environmental 1:00 impact to allowing the ethanol just letting it continue to burn. Beam Suntory put out a press release saying that the barrels in the warehouse contain relatively young whiskey from the Jim Beam Asheville in the US, it will not impact the availability of the product to its customers. And they are going to be working with local state and federal agencies to conduct response operations. And now beyond just the whiskey, Jim Beam is looking at a $50 million loss. That would be the bourbon loss at around 45 million, with an estimated additional 5 million in the damages to the warehouses and the cleanup process. And that cleanup is going to be in response to a mass amount of bourbon that has entered the Ohio River after traveling more than 20 miles down the Kentucky River. And the Kentucky's division of Fish and Wildlife is already characterizing this bill as a severe fish kill. The officials are still continuing to assess the damage to the aquatic life. In a Facebook post on Monday, the Kentucky Energy and Environment cabinets 2:00 said that the department Fish and Wildlife Resources is on the river again, and they are continuing to assess the fish count killed and the results are continue to penned. They are also going to see dead and dying fish. People are using the Kentucky River in the area and they're going to start seeing and smelling the dead fish as well. Robert Francis, the manager of the emergency response team said that the bacteria in the water is going after the food source, which is the sugar and the alcohol so it ends up depleting the oxygen, the fish start to become distress and they eventually die. According to officials, the dead fish will decompose naturally with no harm to the river, so there's no plan to remove them, being Suntory is likely going to be handed a large fine once this comes to a close. If you've taken a drive in Bardstown, or Shively, Kentucky or really anywhere near a distillery or aging warehouses, you'll notice this sort of black fungus or film that grows on the side of rock houses and even find itself attached to road signs and surround 3:00 Holmes in 2007 when University of Toronto my colleges James Scott published an academic paper about the fungus, it pinned it on the whiskey industry. Dr. Scott discovered that this fungus which is he named but don't Yeah, after the man who first studied it in 1872 Anton but don't feeds on the ethanol vapor released by liquor as it ages. Since ethanol is denser than air, the evaporated Angel's share doesn't float up into the sky after all, but rather into the surrounding communities. In when it is airborne. Ethanol meets the slightest bit of moisture. It's going to be common because distilleries and towns are usually near those water sources. You get whiskey fungus all over the place. You can read more about this fungus and how it's plaguing neighboring towns from an article on but by Vice calm, which can be found in our show notes. This podcast, it's always been about education and our focus is how do we bring the biggest personalities behind bourbon to the forefront and get 4:00 listeners a chance to experience the hear directly from them. We never intended this podcast to be about Reiner. I am really what we think. And that's why we never did bourbon or whiskey reviews as a part of our format. However, over the years, people are continually asking us what we think of a particular bourbon. So we wanted to figure out a way to do just that without impacting our pretty much our schedule routine here. So next week, we are launching a new content stream that will be available through your current podcast subscription you're listening to right now, as well as YouTube and we're calling it whiskey quickie. as we did with the podcast. We researched the landscape of bourbon reviews on the Internet to see which format will be best for us, YouTube, it's a large segment and the reviews we watch went anywhere from five minutes upwards to almost an hour long. So we're setting off to make whiskey quickie unlike anything out there today. It's a whiskey review with no cutting and no editing and it will be 5:00 Done with a 62nd countdown timer. Sure it may sound rushed. But at first, these reviews are going to give you something else to listen to on Tuesdays while you wait for the usual Thursday podcast release. We're very excited to launch whiskey quickie. And the first episode will premiere on July 16. You can catch whiskey quickie right here on your existing podcast subscription. Or you can head over to YouTube and watch the video version. All right, I think I've talked enough. So let's get on with the bourbon Community Roundtable where we discuss the cultural implications of the Jim Beam fire as well as heaven hills seven year bottled in bond release. But before that, let's hear Joe from barrel bourbon. And then we've got a substitute for above the char with Ryan Cecil. 5:47 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrell craft spirits. Every batch we produce has a distinct flavor profile. We take pride in blending and preserving spirits for the people who enjoy them the most, you. use our store locator to find a retail or a bar near you at barrellbourbon.com 6:02 I'm Ryan Cecil. Yep, that that third show loop. Fred's out of town and Portugal doing something really cool. So you have me this week, what I want to talk to you about is being in the whiskey business, and all the middlemen, and all the hands that are in your pocket. So when Kenny and I started a brand pursuit series, I had no idea how many hands and middlemen would be in our pockets, anywhere from ABC people, to the distributors, to the liquor store owners, to the lawyers, to the barrel brokers, to the label people to the cork people, to the glass people to every people in the world that gets their hand in our pocket, so we can bring someone some bourbon. But, you know, it's kind of frustrating. But then you think about it. And when I was on the phone with a distributor, his kids got in the car. And I was like, well wait a minute. This guy's a family has to pay for. Well, he deserves that. And then you start to 7:00 Thinking about the ABC person that's following your paperwork. And you're like, well, they have a family. I guess they deserve it too. And then you think about the liquor store, and the landlord, and all the people who just make everything happen. And then I'm like, Well, I guess they do deserve it. And so while it is very frustrating, and very 7:20 just greedy of me, selfishly, because I am a consumer, and I proprietor and creator of product that I want to bring the best possible product to my consumers at the best cost. But then, you know, there's a lot of people that were supporting along the way, and it kind of gives me good perspective about why things are the final price they are as they sit on the bar, and that's this week's above the char. Hope I didn't blow it. And we'll see you next time. 7:54 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon Kenny and I 8:00 Ryan here tonight on deep bourbon Community Roundtable number 34. This is where we talk about all the recent news, things have been happening inside the bourbon world and tonight is going to be it's gonna be light on topics, but it's going to be very, very heavy topic. So I'm kind of really excited to talk about this one. But before we jump into it, Ryan, what's been what's been new in your world recently? sweating a lot. It's hotter than hell, the humidity. Like, I think it's like our 12th or 13th day in a row 90 degrees, and it's like, Oh, God, but now it's, uh, I'm excited for the night we actually each of us will probably have some room to talk like, I'm looking at the tiles in front of me and there's, you know, only 1234 you know, where there's normally like, 10. So we all have our chance to chime in. So I like it. Yeah, that's you and you know, you mentioned that humidity I look at is a good thing. Because I always like to think that I'm walking and I'm sweating. I'm losing weight, but maybe it's just not that maybe it really is just the humidity. there and then 9:00 You drink one of those stats and you're like, right back. 9:04 It's like I keep gaining weight but I've been actually sweating too much. That's I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. Yeah, just like working out or go into the sauna or the same thing. Yeah, and white but sweating out those demons. So exactly for sure. Alright, so as usual we're going to do is we're going to go around the horn. So I'm going to go start off my left are Cal Ripken of the bourbon Community Roundtable. Blake welcome back. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is the what are we at 37th round table close. 34 is incredible. round tables. Yeah. So congratulations to everyone on that. Now always great to be here. I'm Blake from bourbon or you can find me on all the inter webs and social medias Bo you are Bo in our calm as well as seal box calm as well. For all your craft beer needs. That's s e l ba ch s Thanks for having me. Spirit shipped right to your 10:00 Door it's about as easy as you can get. Yeah. 10:03 There's, there's no waiting in lines. There's no car. No camping out, you just, you know flip, just go on your own and it's there. It's sometimes free too. So just 10:16 depending on the tear up 10:19 bad we messed things up. It made me show up free 10:22 billing system. 10:26 Nick, go ahead. Alright, I'm Nick from breaking bourbon, one of the three guys behind breaking bourbon breaking bourbon. com. Check us out Facebook, Twitter, Instagram at breaking bourbon. And, hey, glad Glad to be here. I'm kind of back and forth between myself and Jordan. And I think over the past weekend, we convince Eric to start joining in a little bit more too. So you'll see that the man behind the man I think a little bit more here this year. Oh secret 10:55 coming off the bench, like it. And so Nick one thing that I noticed in your back 11:00 Ground was, you all did a new roof pic recently that went through seal box yet a pretty funny yet a pretty funny sticker behind it. I also want you to kind of talk about that one. Yeah, so these are some of the pics here. It's actually still still waiting on my bottles but it's just a test sticker on there if you can see that. So we kind of wanted to play with the other end of the rift thing. So wrestlers mom, Striffler, you know, so Steve sticklers, everybody they can relate to that, interestingly, just had a 20 year reunion so that movie actually came out American Pie came out during the summer after graduation of high school and before college so needless to say it was a fun summer. But as soon as that kind of came up and and we started a band around the idea, I think it just stuck and so we went with so how many more riff ideas are there going to be out there? 11:56 I've had more inquiries about wrestlers, moms, people seeing the sticker inside 12:00 Hey, so how do I get one of those? Like, well, you got to be the number one Patreon supporter I guess so. 12:06 Drinking bourbon. 12:09 They are sold out though now to think right Blake they sold out today through the major supporters, but 12:17 it didn't take long. No, no, no. I've seen Ken Griffey Jr. I've seen Rick James. 12:25 Yeah. So so we got a few more riff puns, I think still available but riff a mania. Yeah, there's there's so many out there. There's a lot of good ones too. Alright. And so to our resident lawyer, Brian, how's it going? Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me again. Great to be here. This is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter Instagram now finally and and Facebook at sipping corn and online at sipping corn calm or bourbon justice calm and again. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to this one. It's so before we dive into it, Brian did I see something it was posted by Brad at little bit earlier today. I guess 13:00 There was a paper or something that was published that that you had done recently that he finally said, at least he put it on his Facebook for me that's no bread Atlas. he's a he's a friend of the show he was on talking about four roses and barrel pics and stuff like that. But he said that he was quoted in one of your I don't want to say like dissertation. I don't know what you call it, but you know, whatever it is. Well, yeah, it's it's close to that. It's basically the scholarly journal side of of what lawyers do. And I had an article published in a Law Journal from University of Kentucky and I for the bourbon history and to make a point about how much bourbon enthusiast dive deep into these issues, quoted some of his articles from bourbon and banter. I've had a breaking breaking bourbon citation on there had bourbon truth on there. So I was trying to make a few points about how deep we all dies and how into the weeds we get and those definitely pretty 14:00 Did some of the best examples for it. 14:02 Alright, so Ryan may need to step up our game and just not like bullshit about stuff but put some facts out there 14:09 are optional. 14:12 I can understand why you leave us out. I wouldn't want to be cross check the reference, you know, for for my facts. I appreciate being on that Brian, that was the two year storage experiment. And that was definitely our longest dive in anything. How it was a great deep dive, you know, the oxidation effects. I mean, that was that was fantastic. Yeah, I tried to find a quote from the round table and I just couldn't find anything with factual support. 14:41 The only factual support was actually the stuff that you contributed to. 14:45 I don't want to cite myself. So I caught myself from the Harrison podcast, although I didn't have a plug for the book and the article, so I can't say I didn't quote myself, but 14:56 yeah, so I'll for anybody that's curious about what that is. I'll make sure I put it in 15:00 Show Notes the podcast so you can go and check that out at your own leisure because it is it is a long long thing to read. I scroll through like the first two pages and I was like am I almost done? Oh crap is like 18 more to go so I I'll put that out there if somebody else that wants to see it. Yeah, that's the insomnia cure it is maybe just just go to the to the parts where I quote the fellow bloggers and then be done. That's fine. Perfect. 15:26 So there you go, Kenny. 15:29 I don't know. Let's let's see how much I can drink tonight. We'll see you go to sleep later. 15:33 There you go. Yeah. So let's go ahead and let's move on to our first topic of conversation tonight. And this one is really focused around that was it was the big news last week. In this was the Jim Beam warehouse fire. It's estimated somewhere around like 45,000 barrels may have been lost in the gym be warehouse fire. And this is just down the road of castle and key in the Glens Creek distillery near Milledgeville, Kentucky. And if you put this into perspective 16:00 That's about half of the 92,000 barrels that were lost during the heaven Hill distillery fire of 96. And that's when seven Rick houses had actually burned to the ground. And at that time, that loss represented about 2% of the nation's bourbon supply at that time. And I think we can all kind of look at it and really say that this is a this is a big travesty, right? This is a tragedy for all that involved. There were people that were commenting and saying things like, Oh, it's only white label, who cares are saying, Oh, I have pre fire odd 114 and I'll go ahead and post it for sale. Or people were joking and saying as jack daniels starting the fire saying how Alcoholics Anonymous benefit from it. I mean, let's take a step back and think about it like, is this really like the current state of affairs of what we see? 17:00 In the bourbon community and what we should expect when something like this happens when there's millions and millions of dollars on the line for a very large organization, there are firefighters that are sitting there trying to contain the fire that are trying not to spread to people's homes in the area, and people are just just making  jokes at him. I mean, is this is this natural? Like, is this what we could expect from here on out? I think one thing to point out is that no one got injured or died or anything in it, which is the key thing, I think the mood could have been very different. If that was the case and that scene right up front that was the message that was out there. And I think because of that, you know that the tone was able to be different or you know, people may be felt they could, you know, be different with the tone as a result of that. And that's really probably the biggest thing is that you know, you have these what could be really pretty scary incidents happening that you know, fortunately we haven't had you know, anything really seriously happen anyone to get injured or 18:00 You're killed, you know, more more recently in some of these more major, highly publicized ones. So I think that plays into it in this case as well. Yeah, it's kind of been a blackout for bourbon warehouses the past two years. I mean, it's like how many more can like, you know, get some, some natural disaster or something collapse? It's like, it just kind of makes you realize that, like, how old this stuff is, and like, I don't know, that kind of needs, probably some intervention, maybe to kind of protect them more like not just like, Oh, it's been there. It's been built forever. It's all good, you know, so. Yeah, it's just it's just been happening too much lately, I think. And it's kind of serious because we all go and barrel pics and we're all in those things. And tons of tourists go in and out of them. I'm really just, 18:49 you know, it's just kind of scary. You know that all this has happened so much recently. So I think people need to take it more seriously than then than just, oh, it's a white label or it's 19:00 Don't drink the water that's going in, you know, they'll Fall River don't drink it. You know, it's it's definitely more serious than that. So it's something we need to the community needs take serious and you know, the the distilleries as well. 19:12 Yeah, I think that's there's there's a few comments in the chat saying, you know, is this a Rick house problem ovulate like is it is it the age it's catching up on these things? You know, the Barton side that most certainly could have been a problem because there was maybe lack of oversight in regards of maintenance or something like that. However, this this what happened to Jim Beam was a lightning strike. And from what I understand is that lightning poles are pretty ubiquitous anywhere. So they're, they're stationed around the properties and that's what's supposed to basically detract the lightning to go away from most of the warehouses. They're installed in a lot of places. However, you know, it's lightning. So by Reza lightning hopefully doesn't strike twice in the right spot or the single sure, but the the 20:00 warehouses are grandfathered. They don't have sufficient sprinkler systems like the new ones. If you have a if you're Rick is so many barrels, you're not required to have them. It's like, okay, you know, the these are like serious things that, you know that, you know, people can get hurt and I think they need to take it seriously. That's just not some warehouse out there. 20:21 I don't know. Yeah, this this used to happen a lot more historically. I mean, there were five I don't know about the collapses, but there were definitely fires. And there were all kinds of injuries and in warehouses in it distilleries generally. So I think we're probably looking at it in the context of the big bourbon boom lately, so we're all more people are paying attention to it. I mean, if this happened 10 years ago, probably barely be a blip. But sure fires happen. And I think what we might see is is a change to have the the ground built up around them to contain 21:00 The any spirits that get out because we've got a fish kill on the Kentucky River now i mean it's it's a real ecological problem when this happens so I expect to see some some of this grandfather and kind of get questioned and in some of these warehouses might need to be brought up to more current code yeah I think the you know the cynicism is kind of natural and in anything like this you know think just about anything serious that happens there's going to be somebody in a lot of us take this as a hobby so it's only natural to joke about it when you know in real life there's people whose livelihoods and all that kind of depend on it which you know you look at this and while beams a massive Corporation This is probably still a $40 million plus loss so that that is a big thing that should be taken serious. I know David from rare bird was saying I think it was on Twitter somewhere just like 22:00 This is just what happens with something like this. You're just going to have the people joking around about it. And it's unfortunate to an extent but at some point it's like, you know what else are we can't just sit here and mourn the loss of barrels as well you know, as long as nobody got hurt 22:16 I don't know the I'm not going to be posting a bunch of pre fire Jim Beam jokes, but at the same time, we didn't delete them from the bourbon or group either. I didn't feel like it was that offensive? I guess I 22:28 heard a whole lot more offensive stuff then then warehouse jokes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. And I just kind of took it took it in stride. It's going to happen. 22:41 Any kind of news is going to get turned into a meme these days. And that's not the bourbon world. That's that's anything you know, that very serious issues happen and somehow it becomes like, a funny picture with some words on it. 22:54 And sometimes you need comic relief for service, what kind of helping me to pass that or it doesn't 23:00 seem like it's been happening a lot. And maybe that's just because we're focusing on a lot more. Now, you know, it's, it's interesting to hear Brian say that this was very, was much more prevalent, you know, long time ago, you know, I guess maybe 30 4050 years ago 23:17 but you would think we'd have a little more safeguards in place to stop some of the stuff especially like the collapses you know, you think building codes and everything would and inspections would improve that kind of stuff, but lightning strike that's pretty you can't really avoid that unless you just have fire sprinkler systems and that kind of stuff. 23:39 Yeah, absolutely. And Blake you kind of reminded me something of like you know, you and you to to Ryan of saying like you have to make light of a certain situation, you know, and I don't know like when the the too soon thing really, you know, supposed to like play a part into this. But, you know, it reminds me of like one of my favorite comedians is Daniel Tosh. And he says like, nothing is off limits. 24:00 And it's kind of funny it's like I think about it now thinking back I was like yeah well maybe maybe when is that that boundary or that you know whenever Can you say something about it and and I guess in this light you look at it you say well at this point it is a financial loss there was nobody that was hurt there were people that put their lives on the line but it wasn't to the point where you know it's it's not like any of us had like a barrel in there that was like our thing and we're like running in there to go save it right it was it was just like it was a contained fire. They let it burn. I think I read a news article on who he is or something like that they were talking to one of the fire marshals and they're like yes is the best smelling fire we've ever been to you know it's like one of those things that even the fire marshals are kind of having a good time with it you know i but i think it might just be in in poor taste sometimes if it's like 30 minutes minute Yeah, yeah. Like hey, let's let I was gonna use upon us. Let's let the fire settle or dust settle. 25:01 Now my digit but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, give it a little bit of time. Make sure everyone's Okay. And then it's like, okay, it's fine. Today's Blake, you're clear. I'm good. Okay, good. Good. 25:11 I mean, I've heard estimates says is like $270 million in losses. 25:16 That seems like a lot for 45,000 barrels. Well, I mean, you got think 5000 a barrel, you know, probably, I mean, it's cheap stuff that they're getting, like, probably 250 plus bottles out of I mean, and then you times about 40,000. So I don't know that's I was thinking replacement cost. Yeah, you gotta wonder what the 25:36 $250 a barrel, then they've got to rebuild the warehouse. 25:42 But, yeah, I could be way off in one opportunity costs too. So you're just it's just proud of you that they don't take. I guess they do have a min sure. But you know, it seems like okay, I could spend 500 grand on a warehouse to get sprinkler or whatever you know, correctly to help. Save maybe I don't know. 26:00 Maybe I'll just lay off all our Donald music or Donald Blanco. 26:05 It was tragic to me those this and people keep calling it the beam fire, which of course it is. But it's it's Old Crow. And I don't know when these I didn't pay attention when these were built. But this is a distillery built in the 18 seven days I think it was 1870 I think is when old crows built. I don't know if those date back that long. But if if ever we were going to have a revitalization of the Old Crow brand and if they were ever going to bring that distillery back as some kind of tour destination like they have that old Taylor for castle and key mean we're losing out on those opportunities and and that's, that's what bums me out the most since there wasn't any injuries about this. Brian, I think you bring up a good point too, because I know Fred, who couldn't be on tonight. He kind of made a mentioned to me in a text message and saying like, this is this is scary. 27:00 You know it was going was happening is like not just for the fire and everything he's like he's talking about the visitors like the people of bourbon and really what this can mean, saying that this should if if more of these things happen whether they're fires, whether warehouse collapses, any sort of distillery mishap that makes headlines, he said this could completely change any visitor experience you ever go to. It could completely change any barrel pic experience you ever go on. Like they could eventually get to the day where they're saying like no, like, we're not allowing anybody else in the warehouses, like we're getting a hard hat or anything like that, you know, I mean, Kenny and I experienced that for Barton pick 79 to pick and you know, there was lightning in the air and they're like, no way we're gonna do it inside and it's not as fun, you know, being in a little tasting room, but luckily the skies cleared and they let us go back in there. But yeah, it's your he's totally right. And it's for the right reasons, though. Sure, absolutely. is legitimately it's it's legitimate, but actually 28:00 I always think when I think of the sterile experience, I think of the heaven Hill downtown. I mean, it's, it's like Disney Land, and you don't get any sort of real experience there. And that's, I mean, that's could be what this turns into if the insurance companies won't insure the distilleries if they let people in, I mean, that's who's going to drive it. It's can you get coverage? Or can you get coverage that you can afford? And maybe you have to limit it to visitor centers and kind of the Disneyland look. Yeah. Right. There would be a detriment that would be a sad thing to see happen. Yep. But I would play this angle though to you know, I get sent a link in that from a lot of people are outside of bourbon who just know that I'm into bourbon and so they sent the link but from somebody's perspective, that's not really involved in bourbon. You know, they're so bombarded with bad things happening all the time. You know, do you look at something like this and not really think anything of it? You know, because you're not involved. No one was injured or hurt you 29:00 You see bad so much worse stuff than this happen on a daily basis in the news, depending on what you watch, you know, so in the big scheme of things, it the impact is really a lot more just, you know, the enthusiast and that specific kind of bourbon crowd or the potential impact is there, you know, in addition to the environmental stuff, you know, but again, that gets to kind of just all those bad things just cycling through the news on a daily basis. No, you're totally right. And and who knows if this might have been a you know, a smaller craft distillery who knows if you made headlines especially around the nation just because of the size and the impact it what it was I mean, you know, if I saw a quote from john little from smooth Ambler he put on Facebook and you know, he said that it's sad to see these kind of incidents like no matter the size of the company, and he says I often put myself in smooth anglers position and a tragedy like this would be completely devastating to his type of business. So it definitely is a scalar 30:00 too. Wow when it comes to it, so, yeah, they lose 45,000 barrels. They're done. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think at this point I think we can kind of move on we've we're all we're all kind of fired up. Is it too soon? 30:18 For a pre fire heaven Hill. Alright, so, so I won't do that. But yeah, now we're going to go into kind of the the next topic and this is the one that I think it's might have been a little bit old news by now but we're going to go ahead and kind of spark the situation back up because it's the roundtable and why not because this is gonna be a lot of the opinions of really what we see of what's happening inside of the the bourbon community and everything like that. So everybody kind of remembers about, oh gosh, what was it about a year and a half ago, and this was something that we had talked about in the roundtable plenty of times. Nick had talked about it, saying you know, every time I come down to Kentucky what I do, I grab a few bottles of 31:00 Heaven hills six year bottle and bond and I take it back home with me it's some of the best bourbon at $12 a you know 750 ml that you can get on the shelves. In a year and a half ago they had announced that there was going to be a I guess the retirement or the phasing out of this particular product. When that announcement happened shelves started clearing I mean gone and Kentucky here and there and everywhere. It ended up getting the point where I think now you can actually still get on the secondary market. It's somewhere around like $40 for 750. So you get scarcity. People hoard it people buy it up. This is what happens. And now since they did discontinue a beloved $12 six year product and they haven't Hill is now I don't want to say relaunching they are launching almost a similar product. It is their seven year heaven Hill, bottle and bond. So with this comes a few different things, you get an additional year. It's just 32:00 Bottom bond so it's still 100 proof however it comes with a 233% price increase about three times the price. So you're going from $12 so around 3999 MSRP and with this It also comes in its initial launch is also limited availability only available in like I think eight states across the US. So before we start diving into kind of like the business side how do we compare this other things in the market but look at I'm going to kind of pose it to you all and Ryan I'll I'll kind of ask you first. Was this the right move by Heaven hill? 32:37 You know, I love heaven Hill, but man, they bought a lot of things like the logic Craig 12 year age statement, like moving into the back label, then moving it to the side and then saying, No, it's not going away. And then it goes away, you know, and then this, it's like, I don't care what they do, just like see up for about it. Who cares? You know, like, I'm still gonna love you. But uh, I think 33:00 Yeah, they should have just been like, Hey guys, given the market, we have a great product. You know, there's stuff out there on the market. That's whitelist age. Not as good. You know, with a bigger price tag, we feel like this is what it's worth. And here you go, and I would have been like, yep, you're totally right. I totally agree with you. Give me my seven year for 40 bucks, but not still will do that because it's gonna be a great product but uh, yeah, it's just I don't know why they do that. I just don't understand but but I will say that I am wearing my heaven Hill hat tonight to make sure that I am showing support for the brand because I still love the brand. Yeah, of course. 33:37 And yeah, I mean, it is. I don't know I mean, I don't know if it's a dagger to the heart for a lot of bourbon consumers or bourbon lovers out there because you're wrong like this is on the shelves for a very, very long time around here and it's not like it was flying off. It was just, it was just a it was a great value for what it was. But before we do that, you know, dive into more of it. Blake kind of talk about your side. Do you think this was the right move by Heaven Hill to 34:00 to kind of get rid of it and relaunch it. Yeah, I think it was definitely the right move. Not from you know, my perspective as a consumer, but from a business standpoint, it was the best move they can make. You know, I can't imagine what the cost is on a, you know, six year old bourbon, but the margins probably weren't huge. They've basically learned through all these other things of, you know, moving the the 12 year to the back labeled and pulling it off completely then kind of redesigning the laser Craig barrel proof and, you know, they took away Elijah Craig 18 year and reintroduced it a couple years later at four times the price three times the price around there, they realize they can kind of do whatever they want. And yes, a small group of us will kind of cry foul but overall the market still embraces it and still buys it and, you know, it's just kind of keep doing what they want to do. 35:00 And they know that the that the product was undervalued. So they said, Okay, let's put it out at a higher price people will still buy in, it's still a pretty good deal. You know, I have a different perspective on it because I'm not in Kentucky. So it's not something I could regularly get. 35:17 So it's not like I'm missing out on anything. It's in my mind. I'm, it's a plus to me, because I'll actually now have a 30 to $40 What's the retail 4040 $40 bottom, but in that I'm just going to go by Elijah Craig, which is, you know, slightly proof down but probably a little bit older. 35:39 So, I mean, from a business standpoint, I think that's ultimately the right move. And we have given heaven Hill more than enough reason to believe that the market will not care and they'll still go buy it. So yeah, well, 35:54 yeah, 90% of market that probably didn't even know that it was like Kentucky, only six year product. 36:00 999 or whatever so you know, who gives a shit about these Barkin few that now that could turn on them really quickly if things start to get a little bit tighter and they need, you know the enthusiast market again, but I still think we're a little ways out on that happening. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, what I've loved to see another great value bourbon that's still really underpriced. Yes, of course, I think we'd all want to see that. But at the end of the day, it's a business and yeah, I'm guessing they made the right business move. I just have one more point before we move on Kenny to the next person. I think the biggest travesty here is that like you said, you'll go by logic Craig for whatever or Henry McKenna whatever Well, they're going up to so that's just the nature of the progression that's happening here and so it's just gonna slowly move on. brands. You know, you look at it heaven hills had bought 37:00 far the most value based Bourbons for the longest time you know you think of Henry mechanics in your you think of Evan Williams single barrel you think of Elijah Craig was 12 years for a light while even the ledger credit barrel proof in my mind is still a pretty good by depending on where you are. It's a great you know, j w Dan bottled in bond like that is a great bottle for $20. So, you know, while we want to kind of cast that first stone, it's kind of like there's still a lot of other great bourbon out there. 37:35 So that's why it's like hey, Cashin make your money go make build some more warehouses or something. 37:41 Yeah. So Nicole, can I ask you a question? Like, do you think the the idea with this was to try and compete with other brands in the market like the Woodford and the knob creaks that are around that $40 price range? You know, I think it's interesting thinking about before I answer 38:00 That question thing about the progression that it took, which was the undiscovered, nobody talked about it. It's in maybe dusty on the shelf for 12 bucks in Kentucky, and then it kind of got discovered. And that's when you started at people were outside of Kentucky coming in, like me, I was one of them. And I would buy a lot of it just because quite frankly, the price was really the draw it was the value relative to the price, it was good for the price. And it's not like I stockpiled it, that's what I would take to a party and I would leave the bottle there. And then I'd get texts from whoever's house it was those a party saying, Hey, I'm drinking this now. And I'd be like, fantastic. You know, it's only available in Kentucky enjoy it, you know, that kind of a thing. And then I think what happened was you started seeing more people clear the shelves because it kind of became obvious that maybe this wasn't going to go on forever, and it was such a good value. And so looking at the perspective from heaven Hill, you know, why sit there and let that happen. If the idea was it's kind of always available for people in Kentucky, and suddenly kind of not available. It looks like it's not going to be available. You're not really doing 39:00 Anyone any favor? So I agree, I think that was a smart move exactly how they went about doing it and why I think that's kind of the next question that you're asking Kenny is, you know, what is this product? What is it supposed to be? What's their goal with the product? I remember them talking about Elijah Craig, and saying, well, we could have kept a 12 year on and just raise the price. But they said, We don't want it. We want a product that's successful, we really want to keep the price about the same. How do we do that we want to build a brand and have this really always on shelves, we don't want it to be well, or 12. We want it to be go to the store and you can buy it, you know, that type of thing. So now the question is, is is this going to be their flagship? 39:37 Do they want this available? Always, you know, everybody, do they want you to comparing it to like, is that a Woodford or something like that? I think that's yet to be determined. You know, I think they had to do something to it, you know, changing the price a lot. They added a year to it. It's kind of like we can't just do the exact same thing. And then it looks a lot more I think what would be iconic or symbolic of where their branding and 40:00 Where everything is going, you know, where it does really come across as here's a representation of us. They push bottled in bond, I start to wonder if how much they push value versus we perceived value. It's kind of a curious point of mine is, where does that come from? Because it does step outside of that boundary. And I think it does step outside that boundary of everything's overwhelmingly high value. Now, you're asking the question, saying, well, this maybe isn't, you know, and you know, to that the price might be the same for the next 10 years. And they may know that to that you don't see a lot of these really creep up in price unless the retailers are doing a lot of times they'll keep them the same. So I think that's yet to be determined, where we're really going to see this and how it's going to be, you know, kind of viewed and consumed in the marketplace and where they want that, you know, the consumer today, Brian, I want to kind of let you kind of give your your opinion. I mean, do you think this is this is competing within those those different price points of the woods and they're not creeks that are out there? 40:58 Hey, it's Kenny here, and I want to tell you 41:00 About the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you struggle with things along the scenic Kentucky River. There's also going to be food vendors from regional award winning chefs. Plus you get to meet the master distillers and brand ambassadors you've heard on the show, but the kicker is bourbon pursuit. We're going to be there in our very own booth as well. Your $65 ticket includes everything all food and beverage on Saturday. Plus, you can come on Friday for the free Bourbon Street on Broadway event. Don't wait, go and buy your tickets now at bourbon on the banks.org 41:46 Hey everyone, Ryan here and I know when I celebrate a weekend with friends, I want to bring some of my best bourbon. However, if I'm on a car, a plane, it's not convenient. Plus my bottles are clinging around they're not really secure. So I have the perfect solution. 42:00 Aged & Ore travel decanter allows me to put two thirds of my prize bottle and its unique tumbler. It's great for camping or really any outdoor activity with the built into outdoor lines. I know I'm giving my friends just the right amount of my special bourbon. Go Learn more at pursuit travel decanter.com to get yours today. 42:18 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels, but a Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out. In 2005. They applied their expertise from brewing and began distilling at beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get build a dragon's milk beer twice the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrel 43:00 Rackhouse whiskey club is whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rack house whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 43:28 Brian, I want to kind of let you kind of give your your opinion i mean do you think this is this is competing within those those different price points of the woods and the knob Creek center out there? Well $40 is the new $25 and everything that we used to be able to get just five to eight years ago now is going to be $40. So as consumers we just have to accept that. What really struck me the most about this is is a few days after this happened. I was at a continuing legal 44:00 seminar and the Katie a was had a presenter there. And she was and I'd heard this before but totally forgot it. She was saying that 60% of $1 for your spirits purchase in Kentucky goes to Texas. So you've got a you've got a $12 bottle and you've got just over $7 of that goes to some way shape or form to Texas. Heaven Hill can't can't make I mean, I'm sure they're doing fine. But hold on, hold on. You forget the retail who makes money off the retail who makes money in distributor? And then so you have what's left of the actual producer? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean, it's you can't you can't sell bourbon for 1199. You just can't. I always treated the the six year as sort of my, my, 44:50 my bar if you had a craft whiskey. That was that was however old and you couldn't be better than a 60 year heaven Hill bottle of 45:00 Bond wasn't going to be worth spending $60 on it when you can get it when I could get at least in Kentucky a $12 bottle of fantastic bourbon. So I as a consumer, I'm sad about it as looking at it from heaven hills perspective, it's a no brainer to Nick's point I totally agree this is so much better than if they had done the exact same product exact same bottle exact same label, cheap plastic white screw top and increase the price to $40 that they couldn't do that they had to do some premium make some premium changes to it. And and they've done that you know that with with the cork and the label and everything else. So it's people are going to buy it, it's it's going to be worth it, you know, air quotes worth it. But as a consumer, I'm sad about it, but it makes sense. I just don't understand why can't they just be honest, like I just don't get what's the advantage of 46:00 Like, let's pull it off the marquee and we'll pretend like we just hit it and we're not 46:07 there they forget about people forget about it. And then it's like, I want to 46:13 like go to bye bye present with your kid at Target and be like, okay, I'll go hide in the closet some Christmas. I mean, I just want to go on these border meetings and be like, Are you serious? Like, do you think we're that stupid? Like, like consumers? I stupid? I guess. It's my point that most of these distilleries just don't care about consumers. But uh, anyways, I don't care. I totally understand why they're doing it. Yes. $12 a bottle. I mean, we sell bourbon. We can't sell. I couldn't even sell it for $90 a bottle and make money so it's, I totally get it. Just don't be. Don't fool us. We're not idiots like it. Was that the case though? Or was it just you know, I guess looking at it. I'm not at all surprised even when it happened. I really kind of assumed this was coming. I was just not sure what it was going to be exactly. And all 47:00 Lot of cm, I'm surprised the prices as low as it is I kind of thought they were going to go more the old Fitz route and have more of a premium thing and kind of step it up that much. So because it is more of the every day price of what you're seeing now, like you said, the new 40s, the new 25, it actually had me a little excited of Hey, this is something hopefully, I can go by now and it's a little bit older, I assume it's going to taste a little bit different than what the six year was. And I'm not really sure. You know, with all these discussions, they knew exactly what the plan was going to be for that they would want to say anything until it was coming. You know, do you want to say it a year before it's ready, you know, because they went from six to seven, you know, or was it 47:43 you know, they just thought the time would be the key that they just thought Oh, after a year people were would forget that's it. I think they got mad as her Brooks won some awards that said, 47:53 you know, screw this was when we all appreciate a press release at this point that just says 48:00 Guys we're gonna make some more money so right 48:04 in your blindly buying anything on the shelf and anything with hundred dollar price tag your dumb uncle's definitely buy in so 48:15 y'all pay way too much attention to bourbon like just take a backseat on this one. It's okay. Yeah, I actually think there's a whole brand opportunity there Blake versus that brand. They just jokes about everything. It's called it and it's 48:29 Yeah. 48:31 That would be incredible though. I would be like, I don't know. I think it would be so awesome if they did that. But instead they gotta do this. You know, play behind the scenes. Ping Pong match. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're right. like nobody, nobody that pays attention to stuff whatever. Forget it, especially for a product that was iconic to I would say a lot of us but at least people that are well known or should I say really know the bourbon landscape very well, like they know about the product. They 49:00 They know where to find it and they know about it. Now the other side of this is perhaps it wasn't their favorite, right? It's a value budget bourbon like that's what they loved about it. It wasn't necessarily say like, Oh, this is this is my unicorn, right? It's not that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be that this is a budget bourbon. But Ryan you'd also mentioned the Ezra Brooks point of view, and I kinda want to look at the competing l side of the market because anybody that okay I mean, well, let's say like as a Brooks barrel proof is basically contract is still haven't helped, right? It's the same exact thing. And now so we're looking at the difference of a barrel proof products from heaven hill at the seven year age David, versus the heaven hell product bottle and bond less proof and the same price point. 49:50 Like, yeah, like, like what gives? So that's that's comes another point like, now who are they competing with? Are they competing against themselves? 49:59 Yeah, no. 50:00 There's no question there's a high value. So to with the Ezra I think that was recognized right away you know, so part of that is that value proposition you know just just just thinking about what you know he always comes into play when you when you think value and you know you get this weird dichotomy with smaller craft distillers where stuffs coming out for higher prices but then in some cases people like God's its craft it's not kind of recognized yet I'm unless you want to support them. It's in some cases it's not really not really there yet. You know, other cases you have, you know, somebody like new riff who's killing it, you know, with a four year and you know, bottled in bond, you know, so here you go is a four years a seven year you know, you look pricing, I mean, do you put them on the same platform for I'm going to compare this to that, or do you say, Well, no, there's a different comparison here because the distillery size and you know, those kinds of things. So that's the questions you always have to, you know, kind of look at and it's only it comes down to just how much you like it, how good it tastes, but it also comes down to 51:00 How they're speaking with you. And I think Ryan, you made a good point, you know, for the enthusiast side because maybe some other people, the general public doesn't care, but you never want to be lied to, and you never want to feel like the world was pulled over your eyes, which, unfortunately, with the Elijah Craig age statement, that was how everybody felt, you know, and so I think, you know, lesson learned, avoid doing that, like think proactively to speak to that group so that you don't you don't lose that, you know, that faith in that community that's behind the distillery. 51:30 Haven't got it. Sorry. Oh, sorry, Nick. What's up riff bottle and bond cost. $55 or no? The bottle the bottle? 51:39 What is it Blake 4040. Yeah, 44 year, Lori. And I think I think a great value. I think it's a great product. Yeah, I guess this caps the secondary price of the six year bottle and bond. Right. 40. Well, now it's the old label though. They changed it. So now it's 52:00 You know, like discovering your phones in a way, right? So you gotta buy on the shelf anymore. Yeah, I want to throw another one out. 52:10 There. Oh, go ahead run. Well, I'll say here you go heaven Hill. I know you're going to do this within the next year, when you write one to raise hundred McKenna's prices, and you change the packaging, and you change the cork, so that you can justify a $20 increase, just say, we are going to change the cork and the label and we're going to raise about 20 bucks because we think it's undervalued. And I will say, Amen, I will go buy it still. 52:33 I think that's a good Brian. It's it though. Like anyone who's paying attention is somebody who cares. anyone's not paying attention doesn't care. So you got to speak to that group. Yep. Yep. And that was Brian, you kind of teed up the next question right there is is we now see an aspect with inside of heaven hill that they're kind of cannibalizing themselves, where they have products that have higher age statements and higher 53:00 was a perceived value and sometimes even higher proof settling for less money then this product that they're putting out so you know, you look at the, the Henry McKenna bottle and bond as you mentioned, you got Evan Williams you got GTS brown you've got GW Dan, you have all of these different products and mind you that is less the less something's changed and I don't know recently but they're they're bourbon not we didn't match up with a regular bourbon mash bill is one bourbon Nashville, like, nothing's changed. So it's the same product that's going into all these just different aging warehouses, locations, so on and so forth. So do you all see themselves as kind of like cannibalizing and like making themselves like, like, they're, they're fighting against themselves in the market with their own products? 53:46 You know, in a way, maybe I think fewer people are going to tie those things together. Then, you know, when you think of the mass market, I'm not sure a lot of people walk in and realize they're coming from the same place at the store. So 54:00 It's still a pretty small percentage that even acknowledges that. It's like, why do you have a CVS on, you know, two blocks away from each other. And it said, well, you're more likely to stop in at the CVS or Walgreens, if it's, you know, right next to you, as opposed to two miles away, it's still not that big of a deal. So if you go into a store, and it's like, all right, what's on the shelf, if you know they only had one product, you're less likely to grab that bottle when there's 100 products on the shelf. So they put eight to 10 out there, you're more likely to grab it. So I think I think the answer to your question Kenny, when I was out at a bourbon event at a different city, and I met some people that just started drinking bourbon six months ago they had no ideal that Eagle rare Buffalo Trace and all you know under that same Nashville were the same exact Nashville and they're like what you're kidding me. Like it's the same Nashville they have no idea that like, all these brands are the same magical, just different prices, different age, whatever. So they just 55:00 Like the modern the everyday consumer has no idea and you pointed them to the bourbon or Nashville breakdowns 55:10 cheat sheet Thank you. You go we give away posters that shit now. 55:16 Thanks for coming here's your match. Oh, yeah, but but I do want to give a shout out to Dave overboard one on one because I know he's he's he's been talking a lot in the chat here is always saying like wild turkey one to one it's still their prices and change so he could always go there. I saw $10 Yeah, comment on that $10 Right, exactly. So he's trying to put his deck in the ground and hoping with bourbon a choice. Yeah. Well, he's also hope with the Campari folks don't start taking a note out of heaven hills playbook here. But then the also kind of thing is, you know, when we look at this, and we look at it from the enthusiast point of view, you know, we are the bourbon enthusiasts. This is if you're listening to this podcast, who are a bourbon enthusiast, it's there's no way getting around it right. You are You are 56:00 The few people that really care, maybe not as much as us, but you care a lot, you care a lot of a niche of a niche. Exactly. And so you kind of look at it and you're like, well, if heaven Hill really wants to make money off the enthusiasm really care about them. This is what David at rubber one one says, maybe should sell single barrels at more than 90 more than 94 proof. Right? Do something more than than just what you can do it Eliza Craig and he's, I think he might be onto something. 56:26 Yes, they were in those single barrel pics, but but selling them at 94 proof. It's, it's a travesty, really. But you know. And so the last kind of thing I want to hit on with this as it's kind of running out this topic here is we have noticed inside of the press release this is this is almost like unheard of to be able to have a bourbon that's being launched, coming from a prestigious distillery inside of Kentucky and it says it's available in eight states and you start looking down and you start looking and there's one or there's there's one abbreviation you don't see. That's k 57:00 You do not see ky as one of the first states that are out there. Now, Ryan and I have a kind of a good inkling of why this might be. And I'll kind of let Ryan take it here. So Ryan, kind of kind of give your your thought and your process of why wouldn't you go and make Kentucky and available market on day one? 57:20 Because I know they'll sell it no matter what, whenever it gets here. So I gotta go spread to the masses and 57:28 get the new consumers, which I understand, you know, it's totally cool. But it's like Fred always talks about you can't forget the people that brought you to the dance. You know, it's like, Yeah, I don't know. I it's, it's frustrating, but, you know, that's totally Wow. But it's just great to see you know, okay, why not get something that the rest of us 57:54 in New York is on that list. So that means you three to six months after it's released. We'll see you next 58:00 Yeah. 58:02 It's like, you know, Florida all the fun releases are going to come after everyone's Instagram has been flooded with with pictures of these new releases non stop button. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, I mean, right now we were talking about this because he recently took a trip and it's kind of like, Kentucky is very, very small in the picture things. You know, we Yeah, yeah, I mean, saying that, you know, yes, there's there's 4 million plus barrels of whiskey aging and Kentucky. That's more than the population of Kentucky. Guess what? That's a that's about half the size of Dallas. Yeah, it's like there then you got these like Houston and LA and New York that are, you know, just even bigger. It's like, yeah, yeah. So even even when you look at per capita buying, which I'm sure is higher here, you're still not touching, not even close to the bigger markets. Yeah, because I think California and Texas obviously because every 59:00 The biggest population but, you know, I mean, they're just crushing Kentucky and far as you know, consuming power and booze. 59:09 Trying to change one bottle at a time. You know, that's very interesting, just kind of going back to these brands are realizing they don't need the enthusiast nearly as much as kind of as the initially Yeah, as we hope. You know what starts happening when this stuff stops hitting Kentucky as much because overall, Kentucky still gets the lion's share of a lot of the allocated bourbon. And to my knowledge, this is the first one that kind of gave the Kentucky snub. So 59:40 it'll be interesting to see what happens, you know if if that's kind of hurts the brand overall, or they just find a new market and never looked back. So it'll be interesting. 59:52 No, I think you're totally right. I think this is going to be it could be one of those pivotal moves we start seeing in regards to the market and how things 1:00:00 Shifting when somebody is going to launch a product where they're going to launch it and they're going to look at the target markets they're going to look at where do where do the most bourbon consumers live. Now granted Kentucky is there but Kentucky is also a large state Kentucky isn't the size of Houston right like Houston's a pretty big populace actually it's a much bigger populace than Kentucky is a state right? So yeah, that might be the that might be the the idea of like maybe that's where you go like that's where the money is. And not only that is there's this is this is not a game of you know, trying to target a particular kind of consumer like this is a game of people with disposable income that are buying Kentucky's a poor state. I mean, they're one of the you know, probably top 10 poorest states in the if not even higher than in the in the country. So I mean, there's not a lot of people with disposable incomes that can just drop money on expensive Barb's all the time, but we spend it on rep tickets and bourbon and that 1:01:00 Sorry. 1:01:03 But what was that the thinking though? Or? I mean, does something play into? I didn't because it is. I mean, it is really odd that it was a Kentucky only release. And and kind of coming back, you know, you think like that's the narrative that it was Kentucky only and we're going to start in Kentucky. So you know, was it because they wanted more momentum in other states first or, you know, was there a concern that it was going to be received or perceived really negatively? Because, you know, you took it away and then and then brought it back at at the price that's coming back at you know, you gotta wonder if there's more to it, then just, this is what's going to give them most momentum. As much as you know, was there a PR play that got banter back and forth about where do we start here? Because it seems like it's going to be everywhere. And it seems like wherever it is, it's new. It's talked about, it's probably going to do pretty well. 1:01:54 So it is really odd that it didn't start in Kentucky. I gotta admit that despite thinking it's a smart move 1:02:00 Not being in Kentucky is really, it makes me wonder how they came to that conclusion. Well, I mean, it could be like, Oh, well, it's been in your state for the past. How many years? Have 1:02:12 you been here about a year and a half ago? Like, let's go somewhere else? You know, it could be that you didn't care until we said we were going to pull it and then then it got popular. Yep. 1:02:24 Absolutely. So let's go ahead and let's let's kind of finish this one on a on a fun little touchy subject too, because why not? Right. So this was a question that kind of came in over Twitter and it was kind of in regards of secondary market pricing and retailers and how do you justify buying stuff and so Kurt Bella Lawsky sa

The husband and wife team of Scott Blackwell and Ann Marshall opened High Wire Distilling six years ago in Charleston, South Carolina to make whiskey, gin, vodka, and an Amaro liqueur. Now, they're turning a corner...literally. They're investing $3 million to move the distillery into a much larger building a few blocks - and around a corner - from their original site, along with adding a second still just for whiskey, an expanded tasting room, and what they're happiest about...a real loading dock! We'll talk with them on WhiskyCast In-Depth. There's enough news to fill a second episode this week! After four days, the fire that destroyed a Jim Beam warehouse with 45,000 barrels of bourbon has finally burned itself out, though the environmental damage to the Kentucky River is still being felt. The trade war between the U.S. and Europe could expand to include punitive tariffs on Scotch and Irish whiskies in a dispute over aviation subsidies, while U.S. regulators are moving forward with a proposal to deregulate most bottle sizes for whiskies and other distilled spirits. There's also a truckload of new whiskies to mention, and we'll have an unusual head-to-head comparison: a whiskey and the beer it was distilled from.

Today’s guest needs no introduction. He is one the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He’s been on episodes 77, 105, and 175. He’s even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that is Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how he was selected to become the next master distiller. He talks about the changes he saw at the distillery as it exchanged hands throughout the years. Also, we get to hear the story on the birth of Rare Breed and his opinion on chill filtering vs non-chill filtering debate. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits blends cask strength, high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels, and aging environments. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Use code "BOB2019" for discounted tickets to Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. (Offer good through 6/30.) Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: The history of JW Dant and Log Still Distillery - https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/j-w-dant-investing-12-million-to-restart-historic-distillery-in-the-bourbon-capital-of-the-world/ Heaven Hill 7 Year Bottled in Bond Launch - https://www.facebook.com/bourbonpursuit/posts/2640636035998401?__tn__=K-R Leave us a review! https://link.chtbl.com/LeaveAReview This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about speaking at a Total Wine event in Atlanta. Does limestone water make a difference in bourbon? How long does it take to cook bourbon? Can you burn the mash? When did you start at the distillery? What roles have you had at the distillery? What Master Distiller trained you? How did he decide he wanted to train you? What were the early years like? Was there anything from prohibition that affected the distillery operations when you started? Will you all need to increase capacity soon? What was it like when you first started traveling to talk about Wild Turkey? What were your biggest challenges on the road? Were you nervous when you first went out on the road? Were you happy traveling and talking to the consumers? What was the name of the distillery before Wild Turkey? What was it like to distill then ship the bourbon away? Tell us about the other former Lawrenceburg distilleries. What was it like when you were out on the road? Do you think it helped grow the brand? Do you prefer to travel or be at the distillery? Tell us about Kentucky Spirit and Rare Breed. How often are you going through and sampling barrels? Do you have a favorite warehouse? Do you have a favorite floor? Why do you only have 7 floors? What innovations have you seen throughout your time in the bourbon industry? Talk about your rye mashbill. What do you think of non-distilling producers? Tell us about the inception of Rare Breed. Do you like the barrel char flavor? What do you think of chill vs. non-chill filtered? What kind of steak do you like? How much time do you spend at the visitor's center? What do you drive most of the time? Are you excited to have Bruce at the distillery? Did you ever want to own the distillery? Why do whiskey consumers get enthralled with age statements? Any life advice for younger generations? 0:00 I've had one bad job since I've been here. My dad worked for Old Joe Distilling company. The last 10 years of his life he worked here. 0:09 You know what the problem was? You were working here too? Yeah, I was his boss. 0:13 Oh really? (laugh) 0:28 Hey, it's Kenny here and this is episode 207 of bourbon pursuit. It's been a pretty busy week and a half of bourbon news. So let's get to it. Another warehouse comes crashing down. However, this time it's not because of unknown reasons, but it was because of disastrous weather in wind. O.Z. Tyler located in Jonesboro, Kentucky, had a corner of warehouse age get ripped off and barrel started coming to the ground back on Monday, June 17. About 4500 barrels and bourbon more in that quadrant that have now been rescued. The warehouse has been successfully deconstructed, and the cleanup process is underway. That particular warehouse holds around 19,400 barrels. O.Z. Tyler has been in daily meetings with the Environmental Protection Agency to make sure that everything stays contained. On the right side there has been minimal damage in very little leakage because bourbon barrels are constructed to withstand plenty of movement. JW Dant, you've heard the name before because it's one of the many brands owned by Heaven Hill and is also one of the prominent bottled in bond Bourbons that you see on the shelf. And it's been talked about previously with Bernie lovers back on episodes 3637 and 89. Well, heaven Hill may own the name JW Dant as the brand but they don't own the person. j w. Wally dance surprised the crowd during the national bourbon Day celebration in Bardstown, Kentucky, announcing a $12 million investment to build logs still distillery on 2200 acres of land that he purchased that was once guessed them and he decelerate until that was actually shut down back in 1961. In 1883, that distillery at this site was called head and beam distillery but was closed during Prohibition. The distillery reopened the repeal of prohibition, eventually selling to United distillers and later Shanley production at the old distillery was relocated to Louisville in the early 1960s. And production at this location had ceased. The JW dant brand name was sold to heaven Hill in the early 1990s. Heaven Hill still produces JW Dant bourbon today, so don't expect this name on a future bottle from logs still distillery. You can read more about the history of JW Dant and logs still distillery at distillery trail.com with the link in our show notes. while speaking of heaven Hill, everyone is up in arms either celebrating or chastising them over the new announcement of the relaunch of their heaven Hill bottom and bond. You may remember this last year when this product was only available Kentucky and it disappeared from shelves when it had announced its retirement. However, it's back. But there are some catches. The age statement has been increased one year from six to seven years old. It's still bottle and bond at 100 proof the packaging is a bit more flashy than its white label screw top predecessor. Now the big news might be that it's not launching in Kentucky, and it's not going to be available in Kentucky on the first release. Instead, it will be immediately available in California, Texas, New York, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, South Carolina and Colorado. And the prices jumped from the once low budget daily bourbon of $12 and 99 cents to nearly three times that with a suggested retail price of 3999. We're gonna be discussing this one in a lot more detail on the next round table. So we can see where this new price point positions them in the market. So stay tuned for that one. Today's guests, he needs no introduction. He's easily one of probably the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He's been on episode 77 105 and hundred and 75. He's even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that's Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how will you selected to become the next master distiller and how he saw the changes of his own distillery changed hands plenty of times throughout the years. It was certainly an honor for myself to sit there and chat with this man one more time to really just hear more about his story. You're listening to this podcast so we know you enjoy it a little bit. So if you can please be our boots on the ground. leave us a review because that helps the show grow and find new people. Now let's hear what Joe Beatrice over a barrel bourbon has to say. We've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 5:03 Hi Joe from Barrell Bourbon. Here we blend cask strength 5:06 high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels, and aging environments. 5:08 You can find it on the shelves at your nearest retail store. I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. I was changing my nine month old baby's diaper. When suddenly an enormous back pain struck my lower back a spasm seized my spine. It says if 1000 vodka troops grabbed their pitchforks and started stabbing me. Thank goodness I was able to place Julian gently down and the changing station as I toppled over and intense pain. I simply couldn't move. And all I could think about was the total wine event I had in Atlanta later that day. I considered canceling it decided to push on. I drove to Atlanta from Louisville stopping every hour to stretch my back. At one point I thought I was going to pass out in the middle of $1 general and chat and knew them as I was shop for back support things. If I did pass out there, I don't think I would have woken up with much. It was a very interesting crowd shopping that day. I pressed on, I get to the total wine two hours late, and there was a decent crowd waiting for me. I tried standing and talking but could barely stand. So I sat and talked about taxation and bourbon. I never really know what I'm going to talk about with these things. I like to feel the crowd out. And this was one I felt was really hungry for geeky knowledge and somehow bourbon taxes just kind of rose to the forefront of what to talk about. I went through my spiel sign some books and magazines, but couldn't have a tasting. For some reason. Georgia doesn't allow people to have tastings and liquor stores. When will our country figure out that responsible alcohol actions are the answer, not pesky bands on things like tastings. I feel really bad for those total wine workers because they can't really share the goodness of bourbon. Anyway, the next day I went to Atlanta's other times wine. When I ran into the show's good friend Kerry, aka suburbia who taunted me with a vodka bottle and took a picture of the pleasure he had. You should check it out on his Twitter handle look for suburbia, it really captured my disdain for the bourbon job stealing parasite known as vodka. Seriously, vodka sucks. Okay, I told my therapist I would cut back on my vodka rant. So let me get back to the total wine stuff. I did a similar talk about taxes at Kennesaw store and later hung out with the club Atlanta bourbon barons, where the founder Giuliano opened up his house and insane collection to me, at this point, after hitting up the urgent care center the day before, I was on some medication for the back and couldn't really partake in much of this great whiskey tasting. But I slipped a little, just a little. One of the members is Atlanta's leading personal trainer and geologists who sees Atlanta Braves players and people who have a bunch more muscle than me. He offered to look at my best And that, to me is the epitome of the bourbon community. We like to help one another. Atlanta was gracious with the bourbon hospitality and concerns from a health and it just made my trip all the worthwhile. So thank you so much to the Atlanta bourbon community for opening up your arms and accepting me and my bad back because I hobbled to and from all the total wine stores and to your homes. I shared this with you because I feel like the bourbon community is at a breaking point on the internet. I'm seeing constant trolling and bickering and online forums. And maybe it's time we go back to the old ways of the bourbon social life. You know, when you invited total strangers into your home and poured over your conversations with your very best Bourbons. Those were the good old days, and I'd like to see us get back to them. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, have you subscribed to my new magazine bourbon Plus, you should. Latest cover features the actor Jeffrey Wright, who's starring in James Bond and john wick. He's on the cover. Check it out. Until next week. Cheers 9:08 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon back in Lawrenceburg filming recording on site at wild turkey distillery wild turkey Hill I believe one time is what you call it right Jimmy 9:21 is known as wild turkey he'll it's been named Ed bar county is known as wild turkey. He'll 9:26 There you go. So we have master distiller Of course, bourbon legend, Jimmy Russell on the podcast today. And before I kind of dig into it, just want to say thanks to everybody from the empire that helped set this up everybody that also kind of figured out the logistics for it as well. We are recording outside today. So if you hear some trucks going by, it's something that Jimmy had already mentioned earlier to us that there is a rock quarry probably about a mile and a half down the road. And apparently they make some pretty damn good limestone and that's where you hear these trucks that are just going back and forth all day. Right You know, this is where all the lamps only had to have good limestone water to make good bourbon and the Kentucky River is all spring fed limestone water. So I guess we'll go ahead and we'll kick it off with that. So anybody everybody knows Jimmy so we'll get we'll get past that but you know, we'll we'll talk about water in general right because I think it's one of those things that gets a lot of talk about when it comes to Kentucky bourbon you know, you talk about limestone and about limestone filtration but does it really matter at the end of the day because a lot of stuff goes to like reverse osmosis and it's really filtered heavily through there so what's 10:32 kind of your thought process well done in the cooking process we use just limestone water is no go so old time we use house Moser is I use when we're cutting a bourbon after it's been aged for years, but it's just regular Kentucky River water when when you're actually cooking it 10:47 coconut. Okay, so I guess let's let's give some people a little bit of a schooling. So when you're cooking bourbon, what's what's the usual time process when it goes into the masher and everything like Well, 10:59 it depends on time a year we're cooking 400 bushels to a mash corn rye and barley malt. Now the cooking times are the same we cook corn up to 212 degrees and then we cook it for a period of time. Then we start cooling down we had a rather certain temperature has a little more starts a little more flavors, and then we cooling down to certain temperatures. It had we had to barley malt barley malt converts all starches into fermented will sugars. Then we pump at our firm better at our east and East a non ferment will sugars produces a bourbon in 72 hours. And this depend on temperature cook, the cooking temperature is always the same. But cooling down from 200 and 20th. We're cooling water outlet Kentucky River used to cause and all in the wintertime, we can cook and pump a fermented mash mash out in a firmer and three and a half, four hours. And when we just shut down and last part of June the water was hot. It was taking four and a half five hours. So what you're doing, you're setting there and beating that grain to death cooking in the I use simple terms. Just like cooking at home, we leave something on the stove too long. It gets mushy and not as good. So 12:11 yeah, but do you get any like, like say you're putting in like a baking pan? Does ever actually get like black underneath of it? Like if you actually cooked it too long? No, no, no. So you're not gonna actually get can actually burn it. 12:23 No, you're not going to burn it. 12:25 So is there? Is there a point when you know that the mash is done? 12:28 In your opinion? Oh, yes, you can tell by looking at the firm better. First day is pretty smooth and even on top. And they used to own sugars and the apartment or is rolling and moving and it's the natural movement was the East really known the sugars scene. And as it starts finishing Oh, we call it down down they'll start dying down and it'll be come out clear on top. 12:52 Oh yes. The father the firm enters right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12:55 We call it beer at that stage. 12:57 So distillers beer. Absolutely. I so what's let's let's give everybody a little bit of a history lesson too because you started here at wild turkey back in September 10 1954 Okay, so you know the exact date remember the time 13:12 6am seven o'clock in the morning 13:16 maybe I'm not the first person to ask that one. I don't know. Yeah, so you you've pretty much taken you've done a pretty much every single role with inside as 13:25 well yes. 13:27 Most of times you started in the bourbon business you started one place you stayed there all master still it took me under his wing. And that started out in the lab and salary time I learned that you know we learned a job well you can sit back and take it easy, then a boom into something else moves. So that experience in running the ball and operation running the whole client and exercise client management for several years. So what what made it into balls By the way, who was your master distiller that Mr. Bill Hughes he was young distiller for probation and Helio God appeared top heel. And he's took me under his wing started training and were born raised here in Lawrenceburg, Anderson County, and he'd known me you know, all my life and he more or less took me under his wing started training me. 14:14 What What was it about you that? Did he see something? Was there a glimmer in your I did you? Did you ask like, what was it? 14:21 No, I didn't really know. He just they just started trading me doing everything here. 14:25 He's like, here's the here's the biggest sucker in the room. And probably 14:29 nobody else would ever 14:31 know how to use it. 14:33 So what were those were those beginning years, like when you're when you're trying to have this apprenticeship. 14:40 While he's learning everything in the story. I worked in quality control and the story that day and time we didn't have all is saying they will quit what you have now. we'd run analysis on the corn, check it make sure it meets our standards, everything we done by hand. Now you have good equipment to check off, they're going to say you check all the grain and maybe four days are with you my brother scoop shovel shovel, and done a little bit everything. 15:09 So So you started 1954. Right. Yes. So at what point was that during pre post, sorry, post prohibition and and was there anything that really that was, I guess, prohibition ask that that affected your your job at the time? Or is everything just running full cylinders? We started of prohibition in 1933. And this story, some of the buildings and our storage bill some our storage building here 15:39 was built for and 1890s. And most of the steel was, was dismantled cause it was 1919 1933. A lot of them didn't think they'd be back in operation. But the family that owned this at that time is a big rock where why the amount of limestone out here blows. And they own that rock quarry too. So they work here in wintertime. Work in Iraq, we're in the summertime. 16:04 So yeah, you weren't running full cylinders, like you are today. 16:09 Still the same way as to the hot mush July which medicine we don't make any bourbon you just too hot. Doing it now bottling in Hawaii, how's everything Danish goes on all the time? Before it's a cooking mash? It just takes too long to cook them and cooling down. 16:26 Now, do you think that has any effect on the supply of what you all can try to produce? Or? I mean, do you look at it as maybe we should throw in some air conditioning units or open some windows? And 16:36 well, that's not the problem is the water? Oh, is it we say we start having chill water to cooling down. And it just takes along with our we've doubled the capacity owners are to steer in the last few years. So we're running about 346 faster right now. So when we build servers angry, the refurbished everything, we doubled our more than doubled our capacity. And the way we got it now we can put in extra parameters, we can still put in more firm owners and increase more and more. 17:08 I mean, do you do you see the day coming? Where you're going to where you're going to need to do that? Or is right now everything pretty good. And status? Well, 17:14 you know, I hope we have to go save when I started 50 or 60 barrels a day. Now, of course we're restricting our own product, everything to wild turkey products here we make our own product, a drone product and bottle our own product. 17:30 Well, almost right you've got a few other things out there old recipe bond and 17:35 that was too old to steal was that was a one time deal. They went back and done some compile on that. But that's some older stories was here. And they've been looking at some of the older stories for for probation. Maybe doing a special every once while now. 17:49 Yes. What to say I was like there's another one that could be coming out. I think it was the wash. Was it the barons? The barons releases or something like that. They look like it was kind of another another camp party thing. But we figured you probably didn't have a whole lot of your hands involved in that one. No, I didn't. So another thing I guess let's give an idea of, of what so at some point, you are also Do you remember when you had to start going on the road to start talking about the bourbon? Yes, 18:20 it was probably at least 30 years ago or more. And production to master distillers working in production. They just do is to play. That's all you done. And our company started me out going on the road and made a trip all across the United States. And it is completely different is now everybody is all whiskey don't make it. What it is nowadays, everybody. With all internets and everything. Everybody knows everything is going just like this broadcast broadcast. You all covered everything people know what's going on all the time now. 18:54 Well, there's a hungry consumer out there, right? They, they, they want to know more 18:58 they want. That's what I say when I say started. There's always good in my country with what it was. But now they're very well educated. They know what's going on all the time. 19:06 So what was what were some of the biggest challenges when you were doing that in regards of trying to get people to either listen to you or try the product? 19:14 Well, they listened. When you started talking to them, they really listened and this one he's a bourbon Sally's come along whiskies of the world and it's all over the world anywhere you go in the world, you know, for many years, and bourbon was strictly a Southern Gentleman strength. They got their cards or cigars and bourbon went to back room playing cards. That's where it comes in. How will you read old story you never drank bourbon till after five o'clock? Or somewhere? It's always five o'clock. Yeah. But that was always storing in his coming worldwide right now. The export market is huge. everywhere in the world. Now bourbon is really doing well. Were you because you were 19:56 I guess you consider yourself a pioneer when it comes to going out traveling and and talking about the whiskey. Were you nervous? 20:03 No, not really. No, I'm just playing. Oh, Jimmy. I'm saying Well, I mean, 20:08 at this point, yeah, you've stood up and you've talked in front of a bunch of people for quite a long time. And I know one of the things that was always relatively funny was Eddie would always say you know you didn't really do a whole lot of talking at home but you should see it the distiller you're doing you're doing your thing then you're always talking 20:25 well that's what he said the first trip he made with me. Then he come back home said Mama, you don't know that he said he's out here so you can keep him quiet. What 20:36 do you think you think you found like 20:40 like a new new happiness when you were when you were traveling of trying to find a way to connect with consumers I 20:45 had but I've always been people enjoy people. I'm a call myself a people's person. I like to be just like here. I tried to get down to Visitor Center at least once today. Talk to the venture see what they have to say about it. And my wife likes to come here to and on Saturdays. My family has breakfast to get we're family everything's open Joel except our home. That's all but we have breakfast together every Saturday morning. And we she'll come out with me actually she worked here for ideas even she worked here for eight years or children come along and she stayed home took care of the children and and we have Bing she likes come out here and see the vicious dog and they like see are so weak and then after church on Sunday we normally come out a little while on Sunday afternoons I get to spend more time in a visitor center that away for through the week. I got a job to do up there and I don't get down here as much. 21:41 So you know I think I remember this correctly. When you said your your wife Georgia, by the way it is now was this place called was it old tub or Old Joe? Is that what all 21:51 know it was Anderson County just still in 21:53 Anniston County. Okay. 21:54 And then one time was really brothers. And it was JT s brown at one time. And then been since 1971. has been Austin Nichols. 22:04 Gotcha. All right. We'll see. Mr. Sir. I'm learning something today as well. 22:08 They also Nichols company. They had their bourbon made here. It was shipped to New York and bottled in New York at that time. And they bought everything out here. Both the whiskey the day old already here. Um, it was already there. So they both and they didn't buy any other products at JDs brown at them. They didn't buy any of that. 22:30 Alright, so at what point so you were here during the entire Austin Nichols? 22:34 Since they've actually owned everything here in Kentucky. 22:38 Absolutely. So what was it like during that time to sit there and distill and then just ship everything away? Like what was what was the Lucille Ball and everything here? Okay, you're still doing that too? 22:48 Yeah, we're doing everything here. So talk about a little bit because that was in the 70s. Right. So it wasn't it wasn't the heyday for bourbon. No bourbon was true. Say back in that day and time bourbon restrictive Southern Gentleman. Right. So what was what was the, I guess you could say the are or the feeling that, you know, kind of went through a lot of the veins of people around here of what's going to happen with bourbon during that time. I mean, well, you know, before prohibition, it was 12 distilleries here in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, Canada was known as one of the biggest selling cup places it was at that time. Most when I started with steel for here for roses known at nationals are still here in town. Old Joe distilling company was here, and Hoffman distillery was here, then we were here. So when I started the steel forward, now we're down to two four roses and us, 23:41 right. And so what what was what was the Old Joe and Hoffman? What? What kind of fate were they delivered? 23:47 Well, Joe was one of the oldest brands just our 1918 is one of the oldest, oldest brands, and they had several different brands. And in Auckland, they had half and broke. Then they started days were broke. Hmm, there was worried started, 24:04 which, from what I understand is Ezra Brooks was even a real person, right? 24:08 I thought he was I'm not sure. 24:11 Fancy. I don't know. I think that's been one of those biggest lords of bourbon. Nobody actually knows who Brooks actually is. I think it's just a fictional character. Good to be. 24:21 Jimmy Russell doesn't know I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and put my stake in the ground. It might be fictional. I might be right on that one you might be right. 24:29 So I kind of want to go back a little bit about, you know, your time on the road and what it was to to start doing that because you said you weren't nervous. But what was what was the reception of a lot of those people? You know, you'd said that they were they were listening. But do you think that that sort of help kick mark or sorry? kickstart the the market at the time for what we're seeing today? 24:53 Oh, yeah. say they've started wanting to learn about his dad and no, back to Ezra Brooks. Love the fellowship, Assyria his his first name was Ezra now well, that had anything to do with it. I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know either. But the fellow that owned all hapa distillery, while the owners first name was Israel, 25:11 we'll have to look into that. And put that on the research papers for later. But again, I cannot go back to your traveling, you know, the reception of those individuals and how that kind of kick started. So how long? And how many years? Were you traveling? And you're still doing a little bit not near 25:27 as much? Well, I'm still doing it in the States. I'm not going overseas at doing most of traveling overseas now. But, but I've been in just about every country in the world, who was talking about bourbon and say it's become a worldwide drink people's really educated and where you go in the world now. And so you have the bourbon side is in Japan, Australia, Europe, everywhere. Women in the bourbon women, the whiskey of the world and everything nowadays. 25:53 Absolutely. So do you. I guess I'm trying to find a good word to kind of summarize this with but when you're Did you did you look at that time traveling as as a good time to be able to do that? Or would you rather been back here at the distillery kind of overseeing a lot Oh, I enjoy 26:11 doing that. I would want to be a distillery. I wouldn't want to do it all the time. Like la the ambassador's is now they're on the road all the time. But every so often be out on the road and see what two people has to say, you know, you make it, agent, bottle it and ship it out. Unless you had complaints. And we've had very few of them over the years. You never heard any more about it. This way. When you're out in the field, you get to meet people. It's enjoying it and drink it and hear what they have to say about it. 26:40 So when we talk about just the whiskey in general, what do you what do you look at as some of the more brands that that you fall in love with? You know, we've talked to Eddie and and you know, he talked about everybody's got their baby, right? Everybody's got their baby. And so he looks as Kentucky spirit and rare breed. We're really your babies. Yes, 26:59 Kentucky's spirit and Blanton's was the first two single barrels on the market. Way back in early 90s. The first two barrel proofs on the market was Booker's and rare breed and that was late 80s, early 90s. Now everybody that has them but they were the first to own the market. 27:16 So kind of talk about what the Kentucky spirit line really is and what it kind of means to you as well 27:21 the Kentucky spirits of single barrel your hand selected and selected one when you say single barrel has come one barrel and one barrel only. So you're selected. Now here way we do it. Every barrel has a little different taste, even though it's the same going in his way of white oak tree grows in the woods has effect on a tree. I use simple terms. You plant flowers around your home all the way around someone who better on one side or another cause you get more sun more rain or same with white oak trees. So we were selected, were selected consistent taste Now we have this barrel program or bars restaurants, distributors can come in and select their own barrel. We'll have some more spicy pans on the wood some lyst because they know their customer we're trying to please everybody who are they know their customers and they were picking one one of my wanting more spicy one might not want is spicy. So when we're selecting the single barrels 28:19 so the I mean how often were you actually going through and testing some of these Kentucky spirit barrels to see if they matched up profile that people would want to come in and actually purchase them 28:30 we we've always done that we check everything we're Hey, we don't control our grains check before it's ever unloaded, we check it actually grounded. We check it when it's been cooked. We check the firm owners we taste a new product before it ever goes into barrel and then we check new barrels make sure they meet our standard we use a number for heavy char we make sure everything meets our standards before 28:54 so it's like it's like you almost have like a battle of wills here right because you've got this you got this heavy lean on consistency where you're saying like yes, we've got one mash bill we go in one entry proof we do this we do this that have this level of consistency and it's like but we're going to come up with a product where every single thing is different 29:13 you know me I like to be consistent even though I've come up with American honey I've come up with several different experiments over the years but you know I use simple terms Yeah, I certain foods and if I don't like taste them but I'm not gonna eat them again. 29:31 Like what like what foods you're not gonna try again? 29:36 Yeah, cuz simple. It feels like people say like, I'm too old to eat this anymore. I'm gonna enjoy the rest of what I'm going to eat. 29:41 Well my wife sure she says I too much steak and beef. 29:46 You can't have enough steak. That's BBQ Yeah, there you go. What about stuff that you you're not going to touch? Anything that you're not going to touch anymore? No Really? 29:55 Mo is not very few thanks to that. Oh like 30:00 Alright, so let's talk a little bit about the warehouse is here. So it seems like you probably know every every nook and cranny of a lot of these things right? So do you have Do you have a favorite warehouse 30:10 you know to me, most of them. If you sit near you see they all said about the same level. Get same airflow, get same air flow and everything it or some places are you know they're down in valleys different places. But here we're good now at likes a and b warehouse he says it is but you know he gets something in your mind you believe it but I may. I don't see a lot of division er houses. 30:38 What about the floors Do you have a particular floor that you're akin to? 30:41 Well the third fourth fifth floors ideal aging. The first and second floors at same story warehouses. It can be 30 degrees difference between the top floors and the bottom floors. It ages two faced on the top floors and don't age fast enough on the bottom floors. So at times you have to rotate bottom the middle forces idea who managed in temperature and all that there's not that big change in it so but the bottom folders and top floors it is if you use over an hour going to the warehouse you start up steps every floor use field difference in the heat on up. 31:16 So why do you think they stopped? What do you stop at seven place? Why would you go like a 50 story warehouse? 31:25 Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 24 for bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait get yours at bourbon on the banks.org and through June 30 you can get your discounted ticket offer two tickets for the low price of $110 when using the code be EOB 2019 during checkout at bourbon on the banks.org 32:18 Hey everyone, 32:19 Ryan here and I know when I celebrate a weekend with friends I want to bring some of my best bourbon. However, if I'm on the car, a plane is not convenient. Plus my bottles are clanging around they're not really secure. So I have the perfect solution. The Asian or travel to canter allows me to put two thirds of my prize bottle and it's unique tumbler it's great for camping or really any outdoor activity with the built into outdoor lines. I know I'm getting my friends just the right amount of special bourbon. Go Learn more at pursuit travel to canter calm to get yours today. 32:51 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels but Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits Klay used to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling at beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled a dragon's milk beer twice the mature bourbon is finished in those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursue for $25 off your first box 34:00 so why do you think they stop what do you stop at seven place? Why would you go like a 50 story warehouse like what would be the will be the the ideal way of not doing something like that? Well 34:10 I don't know how that would look but it'd be monstrous it'd be monsters but to back in that day in time they didn't have all this quit but you have now they they had police horses pulling the barrels up to the top floors. Oh really? Yes. 34:25 Yeah cuz i guess i mean i've seen you've seen you can go in some of these these warehouses and you do see the you can see like the pulleys and you do see like essentially like almost like an elevator shaft you put it on pull it up 34:37 cool isn't it? That's what they don't leave these two for prohibition here. 34:41 They didn't like put a put a backpack on you with a rope and make you go 34:46 away man does I now you have Rick and machines and all the put them up into three tour. So used to tear Rick's back Ned day we call the dropper she had a cable with hooks on the end. And you looped it up over the for Buffy and one fellow would hope to borrow was a hoax and I'll be back pulling them up earlier than Rick now you have all kinds of equipment to handle it now. Yeah, same way taking them out. You had to take them out the same way. 35:12 So what other I mean let's let's go ahead and rewind the clocks of time here right so during your time what other type of innovations have you seen when it comes to just yeah, either that's rolling barrels or wrecking barrels or dumping or anything like that that sort of either made it easier or just 35:28 it's made it easier you got better equipment now everything's better equipment, you know in the dump room used to knock the bone out of every barrel still. Now we got you got a bone puller pulls the barrels out soaks $1 now same way and fill in barrels you field every barrel, you had to drive the bone and it rolled it out. And it's a lot of those things is better equipment. Now that's why I say our forum and everything, we haven't changed anything. We just have so much better equipment now than you did and everybody to steal you run it by hand you had one hand on the steam veil, want to head on flow veil and you actually you got to be consistent improves on your steel if you prove runs up and down on the steel the flavors are going to be up and down. So you have to be consistent get good if you want consistent taste and flavor you gotta run the same prove all day long. 36:21 So I guess now it's a lot easier because it's all probably computer controlled 36:26 with how we have computers but we still at hand operators are still doing it by hand I can sit there and 36:32 click on click a mouse and I can make it like that and 36:35 then they had when we're grind and grind that has to be their meals we're cooking a cooker fella has been around the cooker we're filling the first matter yes be there so we're still got a computer city have sitting around doing some buy in and that's still in the middle of steel is about 240 degrees and it was hot back in that day and time setting imagine you got air conditioning control room for no sudden oh 37:04 yeah now they're just they're living life of kings or is so he you got to see the hard days hard days everything done by hand 37:12 Yes. 37:13 So let's let's talk a little bit more about the the distillation pieces of it so you've got one match but let you do for all the Bourbons but you also have a ride 37:21 around Nashville right? So talk a little about the rye when was that introduced? Like because I know for a while you know you used to have wild turkey from Maryland source oh not a store it is like bourbon even to this day you have allowed people to bourbon can be made distinctive product United States of America. And a lot of people thanks has been made in Tokyo it's not bourbon. When I started in Radwan made in Maryland, Pennsylvania. It wasn't rat whiskey rye was dominant grain on the East Coast when they come here and that's what they first started us probably George Washington was one of the first distillers I'll get this question all time who's the first distiller someone says a words I you know what I say? The first old farmer got over the mountains got a steel set up claims at the first and Is that another so I don't know whether anybody really knows who really registered still rewards. 38:17 Now that's going to be a mystery that will never going to solve. So back to the rye You know? So when was that when was that introduced here? Because I'd we had mentioned that it was it was sourced at one point for wild turkey 38:31 well it made in Pennsylvania were made for us in Pennsylvania. Okay, but we've ever since I've been here we bottle right? Then we started Mike or own 38:41 probably 38:43 late 60s early 70s. Most rise says 95% 100% rise. Ours is old fashioned formula. It's got raw corn, corn and barley. And that's way that if you look back to original recipes for and Pennsylvania, Maryland as well, they were 39:00 right. So I mean that's so you're keeping the same Nashville that you you sort of were even right. You can consider that contract was stealing if you were taking it out of out of Maryland and bring it back here. Is that 39:12 technically what it was? No, they was making it for us. 39:15 Yeah. Wasn't that considered contract distilling 39:17 or they was gone? Yeah. Same way bother stores in Kentucky right now. does a lot of social media does still brands, it does not have the story as Nautica, and that's what's made the bourbon market short right now, a lot of Bourbons made such a huge jump in the last seven or eight years. Same way as a lot of them were selling bourbon, other people live in a barn and lived under other brands. And now they're shorter bourbon. 39:43 So what's your what's your what's your take on that? Do you think? Are you a fan of indie peas or non distilling producers? Do you 39:51 think? Well, you know, they're making it for people how they want by either I guess or how they want it done. But no, monastery is Bowser says bourbon or rye all have come out of hit on it right. 40:06 Rising Tide raises all ships and right that's that's the way to look at it. So So yeah, so you've been doing that for a while. Rare Breed is the the barrel proof baby of yours. So kind of talk about the inception of that. 40:21 Well, actually, we were tasted we sample say we sample everything we're saying was Asian each year sitting here in LA the visitors come in, we'd be safe and we would sample right in the warehouse at that time. Dr. Bone had a thief pulled our Berlin sampler dr. Terry lovers come in KFC. Why can we get some of this? Why can't we get some of that? That's what brought to me. That's what brought the idea for us here that if they've wanted, that we could probably make it happen. Right? Right. It's easy enough to just not just basically just dump it right away. Don't need to prove it down too much. Right? You can't prove it that Yeah, not can prove it down. Actually, the only thing you can do is put a little water behind it to clean out your filters. Because you got a filter to get this so much at char HR and dump trolls. You'll see big flakes a char and Eric comes loose in that barrel. Then you have a lot of little fan jar that you had to filter to get f5 Charla, 41:21 a lot of people like that fine char at least some of the whiskey geeks What about you, do you when you when you have the opportunity to just go and sample something or go ahead and just fill up your own bottle? Whatever it is, do you get a little bit of that just barrel char sitting around in there? Do you 41:34 like that? Really, you don't get with a thief pull it out. You don't get that in there when he jumped the barrel and get everything out of it. 41:41 Right. But are you a fan of it? Because Because he don't be people like people? I mean, I I don't know. I look at it and you're like, Oh, it's kind of like an extra little little thing about having the bottles you can can you swirl it around you can see that 41:52 a lot of people's like so something wrong with it when they see that is what it is. 41:57 Yeah, I could see a probably a general consumer market would probably look at it like that. The same reason why everybody went to chill filtration at one point because you put ice in it and all of a sudden looks cloudy, but now we're starting to see this shift or this turn where people are, they're asking for, you know, non shelf. They're asking for throw a little piece of char in there for good measure. So I know 42:20 I know, I know it's authentic or something, you know, actually we never use chill for it depends on the proof. It depends on how much water you're adding when you cut it down whether the show failed or not. So at one on one prove up in just a few years ago we never geophones this tall it that what will happen to it. If you say you're shipping it from here and maybe 40 degrees goes to Canada 20 below, they get cloudy and hazy. And that's what you're doing. You're checking out some of those sayings. They won't get that away when you chill. 43:00 Now there's there's always the the never ending debate or story. If you do chill filter it are you removing any flavor. 43:10 Well, unless you see by federal law, if you move so much flavor, you can't call the bourbon anymore. So now you are doing very little flavors. 43:22 So you don't think it's really affecting anything you think it's more of a aesthetic. 43:26 Yeah, it's a now in the lower proves if you're adding a lot of water. See we're not a rule of thumb. It takes about a gallon of water Drew's 100 gallons of bourbon one proof point. So our barrel proof right now is 116.8. And we bonded one on one. You had very little water to it. That is coming on that barrel. 140 something you couldn't have 80 proof you had a lot of water to it. Absolutely. Because we just seal distill it low proof and put it in a barrel at low Bruce to say Hi, are you still were allowed to steal up? 160 proof? Hmm. And I use simple terms. You like to eat steak? 44:05 Do you want it well done or you want to medium rare? Yeah, 44:08 you like it? Well done. 44:10 I'm not a well done fan. I'm a medium medium rare. Just you don't get a lot of the those flavors you 44:15 answer my question. 44:18 You're taking the flavor. Hello. 44:20 Yeah, I mean, so it sounds like your state guy we were talking about already. So 44:27 are you uh, yeah, ribeye fillet. What's your what's your 44:30 what's your Academy? Like on the primary of verse your prime rib guy? I didn't even think about that row horse race choices. 44:37 Oh, yeah. That's so Joe Redis she had she had prime rib cooker for you go out around. Yeah. 44:45 You know, when the children are growing up, she cooked all the time. And now just the two of us and she never knows what time I'm getting home at nights. So weed out just if I'm in town, we added lunch. And you know, it's bad when you go restaurants now and they bring the teeth to you. Like what we said, 45:05 Jane? Yeah, well, I mean, you're here in Lawrenceburg. So I'm sure everybody probably knows you by name, that's for sure. Right. 45:10 Lehman likes to their place to we go to Lex and a lot of course I got a lot more restaurants and we have here in Lawrenceburg. 45:18 Absolutely. And so let's let's kind of talk about you know your time here at the distillery now you spend a lot of time down at the gift shop, chicken, some hand sign and bottles. 45:27 Try to get down at least once today, but I'm in distillery. Most all the time. I try to get to this person or at least once to today, usually about this time they afternoon. course they get off. Regular workers gets off at 330. So I'll usually go down our late night afternoons and sit around. I like 45:48 is it about you think it's the best part of your day? Or do you just like to have a healthy balance of getting in front of people? 45:52 I want to hear what people have to say. You know, I'm on the list and see what they have to say. Uh huh. 46:01 And plus you've got your your scooter, your own personalized scooter down there. 46:05 They had two bunnies. I can't get around and he feels he goes in these fields and I write it down here. 46:12 Right. Really? Okay, so it's an off road kind of guy. 46:16 Yes. Run 40 miles an hour on the road. Well, you 46:19 could just take it to the McDonald's parking lot if you're getting hungry today. Right. 46:23 It's not lost in Mattoon last night for the road he's got turns angles narrow lane. They bought that special for me I didn't even know that he's getting it till one day they said we need you down to Visitor Center will what it was I thought somebody that are wanting bottles I walked in and hey, come pushing that out. Sit here. This is what you go around around. 46:45 But you actually came up here we're recording outside on this hill. You actually came up here in your car you're looking actually drove up here on that? Yes. And now if had been the first for the week? Well, they tease me about this. You know what I draw most of the time 46:59 when you got most of the time 47:00 1998 Ford pickup truck. four wheel drive. Yeah, now I feel as well. And my wife forgot to her for Christmas. She's never drove it much so it's been sitting in the garage for three weeks so I told her to get out and drive Yeah, well battery dies, right? Well, it's it's only got 4000 miles on it. Yeah, and I'm driving a whole lot then well $2,000 we go to Destin Florida we're vacation Fourth of July we we drove down back so to 47:31 see now everybody that lives out in the the Destin region they know where to catch you when it when it comes time to for family vacations and stuff like that is so the other thing that you know I kind of want to talk about just kind of kind of wrap it up with some more bourbon talk is over the years you know you've had your hands in a lot of the releases that have come out and stuff like that you've handed a lot over to Eddie as well and then you've everybody's what he's really banging on Bruce to really move here now. We've I've been I've been sensing that a lot recently. You know where do you kind of see the the lineage going? I mean you excited to have to have Bruce come into here and do you think he's gonna do a good job like what do you think that's gonna be like? 48:11 Well like he said if he if he says I don't do something the heavens me. 48:17 Me and Bruce holdovers from there 48:22 but this is saying I enjoy so much about to bourbon business. All of us are close friends here in Kentucky if one of them gets in trouble others doing is anything they can to help them out. And we talked about Booker know Elmer Lee and part rain we all grew up together. Fred Nolan he grew up together at Parker son Craig been they they're about the same age they grew up together. But Craig had to give it up you know Parker old friend of mine he had Ellis disease engages in his 70s he got the point tour he still could talk all right he couldn't do anything they have big trucking company isn't cattle farms. So Craig had to give it up and stay in taking care of the farms and all now you got Bruce and free its own free little free together now so steal that vision is going on in 49:16 yeah i mean you do see this this family lineage is happening across pretty much pretty much all of them right i mean there's there's something that that there is to be said about that 49:27 little bit different on the heaven Hill side right let disappears disappears and more more business focused rather than distilling focused but the only thing known is to relive 49:37 all of this is Sharon before and countries are stock 49:41 so at one point would you would you rather had the opportunity to like buy back wild turkey and put it under the Russell name? No, we never did own it. Yeah. Well not buy it back. I'm just saying like if the opportunity presented itself or was just something that probably would never would have happened and it wouldn't happen yeah. 49:58 Yeah, it's the know it's very costly. Yes, yes, very costly. And see, most sayings if you don't turn your inventory winter for months, you're not going to be in business very long. See here we're not thinking about even turned inventory with the same date 10 to 12 years from now. So we got a lot of money tied up space in the state of Kentucky we pay a tax on each barrels and since you're in ages, yes the state of Kentucky 50:26 now you'd also mentioned 12 years but from what I understand and what I remember is that you're you're more of a like a seven to eight year old bourbon guys the 50:34 same to toys with seven to 12 Yeah, now we do an older limitation ever was while we put out 14 year old 15 the same thing the decades if we just finished the ad put out it's got 10 to 20 year old version, but it's just a few barrels and we we keep our record bottling one a lot 1400 Barroso badge bother in a small but there's no such term as small badge 50:59 now you can doesn't 51:00 really matter you can call whatever you want ours is about 100 250 barrels who were tasted all the time we found somebody thanks agent a little extra special will set them aside and keep taste them and if he starts getting that woody okie taste like a lot of would know he tastes you like an older bourbon but I don't like it and he starts getting that we can move them down at the bottom of our house and slow at age and down. We can't move same hundred thousand barrels as well on the inventory right now. 51:26 So I guess let's let's talk about that with Woody and okie bourbon because there is kind of a shift in the way that consumers are looking at buying bourbon when it comes to like a whiskey geek market right when people are coming out with crazy age data 2327 year old Bourbons and they do they've got this like heavy okie painting panicky kind of taste and flavor to it. However people like you are saying that's that's probably not the way you should be drinking personal taste Yeah, 51:57 how much it's your taste you drink whatever you live with this not my taste so 52:02 why is it that you think that 52:05 I would say a new whiskey geek or new whiskey consumer gets totally enthralled with this large number on the package rather than the taste and 52:15 it's a lot of people thanks older it is a better it is now go back to scotch which I know a lot about that to see they're using barrels has been used to us as I get as we 1516 years old to really get some good taste in it because they're using barrels and we've already used and the one thing about it when they start using your barrels they want to keep using them goes and eight years we lose about a third of a barrel is soaks into the wood and they're getting some flavor allied barrel so if they used our barrels one year beams or makers or Buffalo Trace and then it's going to change the taste of their product and that's one thing it's like food and all I want to taste the same everytime i don't i don't want some food taste this way tonight. Next week it tastes different way I don't 53:08 there's a lot of variations you can do to mac and cheese 53:12 anymore right and then you know that's funny saying mac and cheese now is all over the world he used to be he didn't see much but they were you going to world as mac and cheese they got it all now so many different ways they fix it now and cookies 53:29 Do you have a favorite mac and cheese rest we could just turn this into mac and cheese pursuit because I think there's there's not a lot of people that don't like mac and cheese 53:35 right. 53:37 Joe rata make a good mac and cheese. We don't eat much. No no mac and cheese for 53:41 all much anymore. My parents put two majors in it. 53:45 Really? 53:46 That's a new one. Here they their mac and cheese when I was growing up had two majors in it that see I don't think I've ever had that. 53:55 I can always try it though. I can always try. So we're gonna wrap it up with with one one last question here. And this actually came from a listener. His name is Jeremy. And he said me myself of several people that I know love visiting the distillery we love to visit with Jimmy for an hour. So he's a good rich source of information and bourbon lore. Now, he kind of wants to ask, what's a couple things to like an advice that you would give of things or codes to live by for younger generations? 54:24 me do it. Like I said a while ago, do it right or don't do it at all. Don't try to change keep consistent taste and flavor and all the time. Don't keep changing different times as you say to him says I'm hard headed in ways but I've done a lot of experiment in over the years with American honey with the barrels has been a scotch different barrels and everything. I've done a lot of experiment over the years but I stay strictly to old tradition doing it the right way. 54:57 Well, that's that's the bourbon side. But just in life in general. And life in general. What what what do you have some good, some good little tidbits that you can hand down to young generations of whether it's Don't work too hard? Maybe it's just enjoy what you love, whatever it is, enjoy 55:14 what you love. Don't try to be somebody who are not. That's what, you know, I don't I hope you see I'm not put on the plane Zambia, just, that's something I'm a piece of trash put on a big spiel. And I'm not if I really had 55:31 deep thoughts with with plain old Jimmy right. Alright. So let's go ahead, we'll wrap it up right there. So make sure that if you get the opportunity to come to Lawrenceburg and visit Wild Turkey, try to figure out was we're recording around three o'clock right now four o'clock, he said he's usually down at the visitor center then. So that's when you know is probably a good time to go catch him. Or you can ask the visitor center and I'll be glad to come down there and salty. There you go. You can do that as well. Right. So he'll do that for our panel cast. Listen, I will. Jimmy thank you so much for hopping on the show today. It was a pleasure to talk to you and you know, capture a lot of that good information. I'm sure we all learned something new every single time and I think we're gonna have to go back and figure out who this Ezra Brooks character was. 56:14 Yeah. Well, thank you for coming and being with us. We enjoy it anytime. You're always welcome here anytime you want to come 56:19 back, except your house right. Now that 56:22 that's all. We're family. 56:24 It's okay. I'll accept that. I'll accept that. Would you be surprised? 56:29 I'm not good on these computers. Other people tell me I saw we were home on 56:36 the internet. No. 56:39 Well, you know where you live? 56:40 Yeah, that's that's the that's the scary thing about it. gotta hide your address. 56:46 No, I'm in the phone. My name is in the phone book here and everything. 56:49 Oh, well. There you go. You can you can you can find them in the local Lawrence County phone book. Right. So with that, I want to say Jimmy, thank you again for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure to have you. That's how you can find Jimmy and I can meet him I'm sure we already talked about it will be back down in Destin, Florida at some point soon. And who knows you might see him at your favorite liquor store across the country signing bottles. 57:10 Thank you, sir. Appreciate you come. Say you're always welcome. Anytime you want to go. 57:15 I appreciate it. And make sure you follow bourbon pursuit on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And if you do like what you hear you want to see more interviews with legends like Jimmy, make sure you support us patreon.com pa te r eo in comm slash bourbon pursuit. That's how we're able to keep buying new equipment, putting miles on the car and making these good interviews happen. So with that, I want to say thank you again and we'll see everybody next week. 57:40 Cheers.

You can't discount the impact marijuana is currently having on states that have legalized recreational use. There's now more research and funding looking at the impact of marijuana not only from a medicinal use, but also economic footprint that funds many city and state government initiatives. Of course, liquor industries are curious and want to make sure this doesn't hurt sales. Will it? I don't know, but today's guests do. David Ozgo, Chief Economist at Distilled Spirits Council and Clay Busch, Vice President of Heavy Grass join the show to talk from their respective sides. Those advocating widespread legalization helps everyone, and those taking precautions for its hurting sales of the spirits business. Show Partners: Batch 016 was a project that took Barrell Craft Sprits over a year. They selected 9 to 15 year old barrels with similar profiles from different distilleries. It’s deeply concentrated, but not too oaky and finishes with a toasted orange note. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Use code "BOB2019" for discounted tickets to Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. (Offer good through 6/30.) Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Kentucky state pride. What's your connection to bourbon? Give us some background on your organizations. Do you encourage smoking weed to harness creativity? Is there a concern from the Distilled Spirits Council with the combination of marijuana and spirits? Let's discuss consuming responsibly. Should brands try to align themselves with marijuana? Tell us about the research the government is doing on marijuana? How would spirit companies use marijuana in their portfolio? What is CBD compared to marijuana? Do you think marijuana has an impact on the spirits industry? Are people worried about marijuana impacting spirits? How do national companies handle marijuana use with employees that live in legal states? What do you think about experimentation of marijuana in spirits? What is your goal in regards to marijuana? What are your thoughts on hemp? Are they worried about the spirit or their pocket books? How can you pair marijuana with whiskey? 0:00 Well now my fire alarms going off. You hear it? 0:04 It's all good. 0:06 Unless he's burning. For God's sake, Kenny. Yeah, I know. 0:08 This podcast was so hot guys, we torched the apartment. 0:24 This is Episode 206 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news. We've announced here on the podcast of all the distilleries on Kentucky having multiple million and billion dollar expansions because the bourbon boom isn't stopping, it's not slowing down. And in 2016, Buffalo Trace began making their progress on its $1.2 billion infrastructure investment. This started off with four new barrel warehouses and a $50 million bottling hall that is now nearing completion. New barrel warehouses double a double will be double See, and Double D have been built and are filled with barrels that will continue to age which will eventually fill around 70 million bottles of whiskey. Now this is all located on what's called whiskey farm, which is a 200 acre plot of land adjacent to Buffalo Trace. The fifth new warehouse double E is taking shape with constructions of number six and seven that every plan for the end of 2019. Each of these warehouses are unique because they are heat cycle during the winter months, even with its limited stock and having to wait for age do its thing. Buffalo Trace is committed to not raising prices or diluting proves to fill more barrels. Last week on the roundtable we discussed would you ever drink a marijuana infused bourbon? Well, this show takes it kind of in a whole new direction. You can't discount the impact that marijuana is currently having on states that have legalized recreational use. There's now more research and funding, looking the impacts of marijuana not only from a medicinal use, but also its economical impact. Of course, liquor industries are curious, and they want to make sure that this isn't going to hurt their sales. But will it? Who knows? But I can't be that expert. So we're going to find out from our experts today. So we have David Ozgo, the chief economist at the distilled spirits Council and Clay Bush, Vice President of heavy grass, they joined the show to talk from their respective sides of the table. So those for its widespread use. And those look at the precautionary look at the potential impact of marijuana on the spirits business. Now with that, let's hear from our friend Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with the above the char. 2:45 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrell bourbon. batch 16 was a project that took over a year, we selected nine to 15 year old barrels with similar profiles from different distilleries. It's deeply concentrated, but not too oaky and finishes with a toasted orange note. Find out more at barrel bourbon.com. 3:02 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. My wife held her belly and said, Freddie, it's time we jumped in the car. I drove 90 miles per hour to the Clark County Memorial Hospital. And nearly 24 hours later, our first son Oscar Leo was born. He was a complicated birth. And we chose this hospital because it specialized in natural birth, even though we didn't mean to end up having a natural birth. That's a whole other story. Why am I telling you this because I regret falling for that hospitals marketing plan, as my son does not have Kentucky on his birth certificate. Don't get me wrong. I love Indiana, the people the food, the cities, but work and tuck ins and there's something special about being born and raised in the state. And while I love my home state of Oklahoma, I'm a proud Oklahoma State Cowboys, Kentucky and bodies of state pride you cannot find anywhere else. It's an every cask of bourbon horse scalping in the metals. The state is an amazing state. And when you travel outside these borders, folks look at you as if you know something, because you live in Kentucky. If you're bred born and raised here, that's like an extra 10 points are cool. I think there's even a T shirt for that. But for bourbon in particular, being from Kentucky gives you more cachet. And if you're from Bardstown especially, it's as if you were baptized from the holy barrel of Booker and Parker beam was your Godfather, the gravitas is real. And if you ever drank with the Kentucky and bards tab, you know why it's our Mecca, our holy place of American whiskey. And it's important to me that my sons live and love the Kentucky pride. After all, as my wife says, they're the sons of bourbon. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, do you have a cool take on Kentucky? Let me know. Love the state, as you know, I'll retweet it or share it on Instagram. Hit me up at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. 5:12 Welcome back to bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kenny and Fred here in attendance today, talking about a subject that is I don't know it's a little little bit hot, a little bit a little bit tipsy because it is two controlled substances and figuring out exactly where do the legalities sort of fit in? Where do one compete with one another to because this is a this is a market after all? And I don't know Fred, do you think this is just considered the the all out sin podcast? 5:45 Well, if we had beer, yeah, we would we can be able to throw that on there. And big, big beer is not a fan of cannabis growth. And so when we look at when we look at marijuana, and American whiskey, the seem to be a lot more compliments, then competition. In a lot of cases, you know, from a lot of consumers do both. And then, you know, the distillers don't seem to be as afraid of the introduction of marijuana legally as beer companies do, and wine and wineries. But at the same time, you know, here in Kentucky, we still have a lot of dry counties. And you know, in some in some districts, you smoke weed, you're going to the devil so and so we see a lot of like Prohibition era mindsets when it's applied to marijuana. 6:42 Yeah, I typically tend to agree with that. However, the one thing that we have seen within the changing laws of marijuana is that it's it's starting to break down barriers a lot faster than probably what she's seen a lot of things in regards of alcohol to from California and Colorado and the whole entire nation of Canada is now recreational. So you're starting to see these these things coming. And it's I think it'll be harder for entities to try to stop slowing its role because it's a, I guess it's a product that is probably going to eventually make its way out and marijuana in general recreational marijuana to the vast majority of United States over the next few years. And that is why we have brought in our guests today to talk about this and what could the potential impact be on bourbon? So we have got David Ozgo. David is the chief economist of the distilled spirits Council, as well as we have Clay Bush, who is the vice president of heavy grass. So Gentlemen, welcome to the show. 7:43 Thank you very much. Good. It's good to be here. 7:45 Yeah. Thanks for having us. 7:47 Yeah, so Clay I'll kind of go with you first. You know, this is a bourbon podcast after all. What's your sort of tie in with with bourbon? Do you drink it? You have a few bottles as a cocktail guy what's what's sort of your your Avenue 8:01 and a previous in a previous life? I actually used to help produce beer bourbon festivals, which is how I met Fred. I've always been a traditional Tennessee whiskey jack daniels guy just growing up naturally and in college jack and coke was always my go to that's how I was introduced to whiskey. But as I did more shows in Kentucky's in Louisville, specifically med debt, you know, with Danny Wimmer presents and the festivals that we did there because I used to be a promoter with Danny Wimmer really got to know and educate ourselves in the bourbon. So I'm a bourbon fanatic. I had a good collection. But being in California, it's hard to find the good stuff. So it's going it's running out. But a big Blanton's fan, he is probably my go to if I if I could ever, like have a you know, one sip of one thing, Blanton would be my my go to. 8:49 Nice. 8:49 What about you, David, do you have a particular bourbon that you gravitate towards? or anything like that? 8:55 Oh, gosh, that's always a loaded question. When you're talking to someone that works for a traders Association. 9:02 Didn't didn't didn't. 9:04 Let me just say there are a lot of really wonderful products out on the market. And I enjoyed most of them. 9:11 It was it was about as generic as we can get. 9:17 You running for Senate in 2022? 9:20 No, but I'd like to keep my job in 9:22 2019. So although I can David, I imagine that your your plank would be pretty good. You would just be talking about reducing excise taxes and reducing tariffs. I mean, you'd have all kinds of people voting for you with that kind of language. 9:38 Well, we are quite popular with a good portion of the public. And we're just hoping to bring the Congress around along as well. So yeah, we've had some tariff issues, but we're hoping to get past them so that the Europeans can enjoy our fine bourbon products. 9:56 Absolutely. And I think we should also let people get a little bit more familiar with with your organizations that you belong to. So David, if you could give a little bit of color and background on what is the distilled spirits Council. 10:09 Sure, the distilled spirits council we represent most of the large, distillers, distillers and importers of distilled spirits in United States. So that means we represent the suppliers either the people when it comes to bourbon, the people that are actually making the bourbon or we also represents scotch rum, gin, vodka, all the distilled spirits. So if it happens to be an import will will represent the importer as well. And we have an organization here in Washington DC, we have a public affairs staff, we obviously have a number of government relations people. We have a science office general counsel office, and my office is the economic and strategic analysis office. So we do a lot of economic analysis. So we will represent the industry both here in Washington, DC, but then at the state level as well, where where there's oftentimes a lot going on. 11:08 And then I don't know if heavy grass really needs an introduction, but I want you to do it anyway. 11:13 Well, heavy grass is a we like to call ourselves more than just a cannabis company. We're a lifestyle brand. You know, we we think we're amplifying to everyone's experience. I mean, cannabis has been amplifying, you know, creativity. Other experiences throughout history since been introduced to the market. So we are a rock and roll aggressive brand. We are a recreational brand, we do not take a medical stance, we're not here to say we're our stuffs going to help treat arthritis or influenza, it's an anti inflammatory, we're here to say, you know, if you want to go to a concert, smoking, a heavy grass product is going to help amplify your experience. But more than anything, we're a community. We're super serving the rock and roll and metal community, we're all inclusive, even if you don't consume our products, we want you to be a part of our events, and just be a part of everything we're doing. So we're constantly out especially in Los Angeles, where I'm based in the company's based and we're out for helping, you know, support bands predict producing events and activating other music festivals, but also, you know, being a being a an additive and amplifying experience for bands in the studio, when they need that that creativity or some way 12:18 so so you're you're you're supplying bands with heavy grasses, they go into the studio, is that what you're saying? 12:24 Yeah, sometimes you had you needed to write a really great solo. And then a lot of times instead of, you know, this is what they use as their outlet to get creative and they smoke cannabis. But another thing that we utilize cannabis for is the relaxation part where a lot of these guys are using it to go to sleep like myself. I've been an active cannabis user since I was 12 from Colorado, and cannabis has always been my go to to help relax and go to bed and my mind's constantly racing our car or going to school or playing football or whatever was in Canvas was always that, you know, allowed me to kind of relax and go to bed and start my day over. 12:59 Alright, so you have you're not a you're not a medical cannabis. But let's say that I'm a 65 year old heavy metal fan, and I have glaucoma. Can I enjoy your product at a concert and maybe have some side benefits of the medicine? 13:15 I'm sure I'm sure you could but we're not going out there basically tell you that this is going to help a block home if you're smoking cannabis in that realm we're expecting you to go out it's adding to your you know, I'm a big we call whiskey and weed pairing. So I constantly like pairing my whiskey with my jack and cokes and I'm going to a concert. So that adds to my experience, it creates a different euphoria for me. And that's always been a part of my culture in the way I've experienced live music. So I think for a 65 year old heavy metal fans going and Ozzy Osbourne concert, he's probably has a cannabis alternative that's helping with his golf glaucoma. And he's a part of our community just to hang out and enjoy the enjoy the concert with us. 13:51 So David, you heard that side of things, and you know, the spirits community, you know, it's very, very much about drink responsibly consuming responsibly. Is there a concern from the distilled spirits Council, you know, that the the connection that combination of, of marijuana and spirits, you know, could lead to a non responsible experience? 14:18 Well, obviously, any product can be consumed responsibly, and any product can be consumed. non-response and responsibly. You know, we, you're right, we discourage, we encourage responsible drinking. If you think you have a drinking problem, or if you think you're going to have a few drinks and drive we are we, we discouraged that. Uber is a wonderful lifesaver for a lot of people. So you have a lot of options today, in order to keep your consumption of anything responsible. 14:52 And now Klay, let's go back, Sammy said You said you started smoking at 12. Now, yeah, even by today's standards, that would be pretty, pretty well illegal. 15:02 I mean, yeah, I mean, very much illegal. And even in Colorado, during that time, it was illegal. I still remember, this is not the way you're supposed to consume and introduce yourself to a product just like when you're drinking whiskey for the first time, you're not going to the backyard moonshine, or, to try it for the first time to get the ultimate experience and really get the benefits benefits of what you're looking for. I know alcohol is a slippery slope, when it comes to that the cannabis kind of falls into a different category in our eyes, you know, to David's point, we're about healthy consumption as well and safe consumption. You know, medical drugs have do not drive warnings on their on their bottles. You know, we have warning labels on ours, the alcohol industry costly, does great advertisements, pushing saved tapes, save consumption and driving and drinking and driving responsibly or calling Uber like you mentioned. So we're just a little different when it comes because we pair and I know when you don't want to pair with alcohol with traditional prescription drugs. But I think, you know, when you look at cannabis and data kind of kind of kind of shows the story where there isn't really any data show correlating a cannabis consumer to a death in the history of the product, there's plenty of correlations that kind of could bring other products into it, especially the prescription drug business, the fat and only and like the oxy Cotton's and, and the different types of opiates. That's an epidemic. And that's really why I think cannabis is kind of coming as an alternative. Now with the way technology is caught up, people are educating themselves and saying, hey, this may have been a prohibition product for so long, because it may be a mess with so many other categories, like the paper industry in the logging industry at the time. And and now the prescription drug business. So it's it's an exciting time, it's all about education, that's what we're all about is just educating people on our product at the same time. We're not a medical, we're not a medical product. 16:49 Now, to be clear, there have been according to the DEA, there's not there's not reported overdose deaths in marijuana, but there are deaths are linked to, you know, over use and driving. The Arkansas Department of Health just issued an advisory on cannabis, you know, so there are there are some things there are over consumption can be, you know, can be fatal. And there's also some studies that show that marriage, you know, the use of marijuana at a certain age can you know, trigger, schizophrenia and some people I mean, David, when you see those things, and when the spirits industry hears those things, and they hear the discussion of it, there's not as No, marijuana is not as fatal as alcohol. Is there a sense of, I don't know, pushback from the alcohol industry to you know that because at the end of the day, a lot of these marijuana when you're talking about marijuana, they lot of times push down on spirits. 17:59 I you I mean, let's be clear. Obviously, impaired driving is a big concern of ours, because what tends to happen is right now we have a breathalyzer out there with a breathalyzer technology has been around for I don't know, 5060 years now. In fact, it was the distilled spirits Council and some of its predecessors, they actually invested the money that developed the original breathalyzer, what tends to happen now is if you have if you're, if someone is pulled over with a suspicion of DUI, you can do the breathalyzer fairly quickly, if they test positive for alcohol, all automatically becomes an alcohol impairment, you know, because they simply don't have the ability to test for anything else. We think that's an important issue from a public policy standpoint, not just from the fact that we don't want to take all the blame for impaired driving, if it's not our products that are causing the real impairment, but we just think from a public policy standpoint, you need to know what people are doing. You need to know, in order to because so much of trying to reduce abuse of drinking or your abuse of consumption of anything, is to know what people are doing, and then you can properly educate them. So from that standpoint, we we need to we need to know what's causing impairment. And I, everyone I've talked to that's in the marijuana industry now is really on board with that notion. And, you know, they're advocating for research that could develop the for lack of better term marijuana breathalyzer. 19:39 Let's go to some mail set Klay brought up because he said he was a big proponent of pairing marijuana with whiskey as a as an enjoyment. Where did I slit Yeah, yeah, like Ferris. So hey, so good at my coconut 19:55 got my chocolate got 19:57 my memory marijuana? 19:58 Maybe it's a coconut milk? Wanna? Or maybe it's a coconut chocolate cannabis cookie? No, 20:04 it'd be that's it. That's an aggressive cookie. 20:08 So where does the distilled spirits council stand on the pairing of spirits and marijuana? 20:18 Well, right now, we haven't taken a position really. But in general, we would discourage you, particularly if you're going to be driving from using both products. You know, ultimately, let's 20:34 say you're, let's just say you're in your apartment all by yourself, you got a little something here, and you got a little something there. And they want a pair, both of them Does, does the distilled spirits Council have a position on that? 20:47 We don't have an official position on that, you know, we in general, discourage the use of both of them, if you think you're you're going to be driving at all, a lot of this is an matter of personal preference. You know, ultimately, you, you have to know what your limits are. You have to know how you can consume any product responsibly. 21:13 David, I got another kind of question for you, too, because Clay brought up a good point. And you know, he he's the proponent of the whiskey and spirits pairing. However, you don't see anything out there on the spirit side of the house that are saying like, Oh, yeah, like, we are going to embrace a lot of things that's happening inside of the cannabis world. You don't see, I'm not even to put a name out there of saying they're doing this. But should there ever be? Or is there? Is it just bad juju all around to actually have a brand say we're going to try to align themselves with, with marijuana? 21:45 Well, we're still doing a lot of research. I mean, obviously, this is a relatively new field, the federal government is finally starting to do more research into impairment levels. We're going to wait until the sciences in before we really been any kind of recommendation on that. 22:03 And it's important to note that every everybody reacts to these things differently. You know, the most of the studies that most of the studies that are out there, you know, basically have that kind of caveat is that not everyone responds to weed and, and booze the same way. And I kind of want to have a kind of, I want to know, you'd mentioned you guys are studying this What? What are you all looking at? From a as it as a trade organization? 22:38 Well, we're we're not the ones doing the actual research. It's really the federal government that's, that's doing the research. So, you know, ultimately, what we hope to find out is, you know, just what the various level impairments are, what level of consumption is safe, what level of is not safe, those sorts of things that, you know, you're you ultimately want to look at. 23:06 And I'll say this to constellation brands, which, you know, is a multi billion dollar company, it has interest in wine has interest in beer. And it's been making a heavy play into the American whiskey scene with the purchase of high West investments in Nelson the Greenbrier and Bardstown bourbon company, among others, they have bought stakes and marijuana companies. So that kind of tells you that the writing's on the wall, that these spirits brands support this now. So let's talk about how this is going to look when they get when this becomes federally legal. If it becomes federally legal. Well, how will the spirits companies use marijuana in their portfolio? David, I'll give you the first crack at that in terms of what you might think, 23:56 oh, gosh, well, you know, we don't make the bond decisions the purchasing the investment decisions for our member companies. So that's, that's really a question that you would want to address to them. You know, 24:10 certainly Ronnie I 24:12 asked several of them to come on, but none of them would come on, they all said you so wonderful. So they said you talk to you 24:21 you know, right now from what we seen, however, with regard you know, any company is always going to look for new products to sell and if a company believes that you know, a cannabis based product will fit into their portfolio whatever it might be. You know, that's that's ultimately up to them. We obviously because we are the distilled spirits council we concentrate on distilled spirits so yeah, very much aware of that the that constellation is made a rather large investment I think it was $4 billion and they're they're looking to develop that that side of their business 25:05 Klay What do you think what is what does 25:09 what does a spirits and marijuana product look like? As we see these investments coming in from larger companies? 25:17 I think it's not even about the current spirits in the current portfolio. I think they're looking at a category and being first the party before a lot of their competitors are and saying, Hey, you know, we all kind of fall in the same category, which in the wreck category, which is social, you know, social gatherings use for social purposes, at times, you know, or sitting at home to relax in the wine industry is very similar to how cannabis, some of the cannabis companies are operating not a heavy grass, per se, we I think we operate more like a whiskey company would. But I think constellation going and looking at it as they were going to go in and be first the party where they can own a category and leverage what they already know. I mean, these companies have no massive distribution, they know how to market brands, they know how to deal with content, clients issues, and we're worried about legalities. So I think they're just getting prepared for all 50 states to open up and then it can be really game on for these brands. I think with CBD and the Farm Bill passing and all these things that are just happening now recently with legislation I think you're going to see not a lot of infusion products and spirits industry because they haven't I don't think they're going to allow that to be legal yet with I think there needs to be more research done. 26:26 Asians You mean like a cannabis flavored whiskey you know think that'll have 26:30 CBD infused whiskey. You know, there's ways to do it still I mean, there's books out there teaches you how to infuse your whiskey with cannabis or any any spirit or beverage I but I think it's not going to be necessarily that coming first, I think they're going to introduce a new product through the through the umbrella somehow, which could be different than you know, another constellation wine product 26:52 if they allow you so you think the play is not necessarily to combine the two but to have a stake in the category as they would anything else. 27:01 I think these companies know distribution better than anybody and big business like that, especially the tobacco business as well. They're going to come in and put real infrastructure on a mass scale once all 50 states open up and ultra just invested on the opposite end on the tobacco side not to jump around it's a different conversation. They're doing the same thing in Canada as well getting prepared we're it's a very unique time to see those two companies go up there and throwing down billions of dollars into the category 27:29 Clay there's another kind of thing I want you to really touch on just a little bit because we are really an education program and I'm sure there's a lot of people that are going across you 27:39 know we were on PBS and all these other 27:45 iTunes the new home of PBS the but there's no I walk around downtown. It can be in Kentucky you could be in states that aren't legal yet you see signs it says like a we now carry CBD oils. people an idea of like, what does it stand for? And really, what is that? What is that product versus the traditional? You know what people really think what marijuana is 28:10 a difference is is basically the psychoactive CBD has zero psychoactive properties. So it can be used strictly for the health benefits side of cannabis than the product and the cannabis. So you know, there's different cannabinoids that go into the plants and different plants out there that do different things and provide different relief so the CBD can be extracted and it's not necessarily a smoker but I mean you have CBD vape pens out there for people that want to consume it that way. But a lot of its going into topical creams you know more health and wellness side A CBD pill for example can help you stay focused and help with anti anxiety at the same time so but without you feeling like you're quote unquote stoned right? The THC side which is still federally illegal is the psychoactive side and that's the stuff that makes you feel high. So I guess that's the best way easiest way I can determine you know, help your audience you know signify the split between the two this THC which is still federally legal. My company have you grass is a THC driven company so we we go on feeling the effects of using cannabis. CBD is the other side where it can help with the anti inflammatory it's used for more of the health and wellness side and the prescription benefits 29:24 and so you know, your uh, your your your spirits, drinker as well, kind of talk about what you think that your business has had on you. And if you think it actually has an impact on the spirits industry as well. I mean, when people have a choice, they're gonna go to the store and they're going to see two things on the shelf. Or they're going to choose one of the other Do you think there's still room for both of these that it's really not going to inhibit any sort of growth? 29:51 I mean, me personally, I don't think it really inhibits I know that for some people, they'll use cannabis and only consume cannabis that night drink, but those people are trying not to drink. So those people already understand and, and the big thing is understanding educate ourselves on consumption, which we've talked about a lot. David brought it up. You know, some people know they can't drink whiskey, so they drink clear liquor. And some people can't drink liquor at all. Some people can't drink beer. So I mean, I think it's understanding how to how to use it. Some people can't smoke weed and drink whiskey. I think I'm I think I just under over over time and learn how to pair it properly without me getting completely blown out of my mind. But it goes back 30:29 to education. It's your Viking jeans. 30:33 Nobody goes back to education and understanding Hey, if you know and I had to learn the hard way, I'm not gonna lie just like I had to learn the hard way. And when I first drink tequila for the first time, I drank too much and I threw up. You know, I smoked too much. And I passed out while I was drinking whiskey. So I think it goes back to healthy consumption. If you're going to smoke and pair you're definitely not driving. And we're not trying to advocate for that either. But we also create a strain of weed that pairs well with whiskey or blackjack straight. Which for your audience that doesn't know what cannabis looks like. This is what cannabis looks like. Is it pairs well with bourbon and whiskey because it's a spicier flavor when you consume it and out pairs, well, the openness of the barrels. So So we've pulled a strain out specifically because we understand that our cannabis community is already a member of the whisk community, and they're going to engage with both. So to answer your question, I think it's going to be case by case I think sometimes they're going they're just going to want to grab a bottle Blanton's or they're going to go in and say, Hey, I'm hanging out with my boys. I'm going to roll a joint. I'm going to get an eighth of heavy grass. I'm gonna get a bottle of, I don't know, patties and let's let's go let's go have a good time with my boys tonight and play some cards. 31:43 All right, David, what are the numbers say? Because I know that you're you're in the spreadsheets in the database. And so what what does that look like? Hey, it's Kenny here and I want to tell you about the Commonwealth premiere bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24th. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you struggle with things along the scenic Kentucky River. There's also going to be food vendors from regional award winning chefs. Plus you get to meet the master distillers and brand ambassadors you've heard on the show, but the kicker is bourbon pursuit. We're going to be there in our very own booth as well. Your $65 ticket includes everything all food and beverage on Saturday. Plus, you can come on Friday for the free Bourbon Street on Broadway event. Don't wait go and buy your tickets now at bourbon on the banks.org and through June 30. You can get your discounted ticket offer two tickets for the low price of $110. When using the code be BOB 2019 during checkout at bourbon on the banks.org 32:54 Ryan here, have you ever been traveling or on a date night or just wanting to pack your favorite booze or wine or cocktail and it just turns out to be a big mess? 33:02 Well we have a perfect solution for you. The Aged & Ore travel decanter is made of a 500 milliliter hand blown glass encased in two double walls stainless steel tumblers so you got glasses already there with you. We're running a special promotion for bourbon pursuit where you can get yours at pursuit.traveldecanter.com. 33:20 Go get yours today. 33:22 There are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever before. So how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? Rackhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. 33:38 Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rackhouses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in 40 states and rock houses June box they're featuring a distillery that claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey rack house whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from there, including its beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye, for both of which were finished in barrels that were once used to mature America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged stout. And if you're a beer guy like me, you would know that's New Holland dragon milk, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. All right, David, what are the numbers say? Because I know that you're you're in the spreadsheets in the database. And so what what does that look like? 34:29 Yeah, well, it's a sad commentary on my life, I think, but 34:36 you know, we obviously, we have followed those with great interest for a number of years now. And we've looked at the three states that have the longest history of recreational legalization, namely, Oregon, Washington State, and of course, Colorado. And in all three of those states, we see no impact on our product. In fact, we took a look at the only way you could really determine what's happening to spirits, beer or wine volumes, for that matter, is to look at the excise tax collections, because that's really the only source of data that's going to include the entire market. And when we've done that, we see that well gee, distilled spirits consumption on a per capita basis since the legalization of recreational marijuana in those three states is up a little bit. And then when we you know, we've been gaining market share from beer for God, nine out of nine, the last nine years and probably I don't know 15 out of last 16 or 17. When we look at total beverage, alcohol consumption in those states, we see that on a per capita basis, it's either roughly flat or up slightly. So there's really just no evidence industries, three states that marijuana legalization has has had an impact on us whatsoever. 36:07 Okay, well, I guess we can just end the podcast now. And we got our answers. 36:12 But to that point, I like to blame it. The I know, the craft beer industry is one of those categories on a national scale. And David, you know a lot more about this than I do. If that numbers falling. I can blame craft beers because they're cannibalizing themselves. You know, there's too many options out there. There's no brand loyalty. And when you have that it's the Wild West. And it's segmented. And that's just my opinion. But you can probably talk better to that. 36:40 Yeah, well, you know, I mean, obviously, I've counterparts that do the same thing that I do for the craft beer industry, as well as for regular beer. And they say the same thing that Yeah, beer is down. But when we look at the states that have legalized marijuana, we don't see results that only different from states that don't have legalized recreational marijuana. So as a result, they they don't tend to really be so conservative. They haven't seen any impact from the legalization of marijuana, they the results are always the same, regardless of whether or not it's legalized or not. So I know that a lot of people claim that marijuana is supposed to have this massive impact on beverage alcohol, who knows maybe one day it will but you know, again, when you look at the states with the longest history, it is not and, you know, particular with Colorado. Wow, when you look at the Could you imagine a product becoming more socially acceptable than marijuana in Colorado right now? You know, it's no one has a problem with you using marijuana in Colorado. So, you know, I think we're getting some wonderful data from Colorado right now, just because it's in my mind, it's it's almost a fully developed marijuana market. When you look at the the rate of growth and whatnot in retail sales, it's, it's declined, or it's not that the rate of growth is slowing fairly dramatically, which is more or less to sign up a developed market. And, you know, pretty clearly it's not had any impact on beverage alcohol sales. 38:25 David, kind of another question about that, you know, you had talked about claims and what people say, what are some of those claims that maybe people were worried about that they want you to lobby against to say that marijuana could impact their their their distilled spirits? sales? 38:42 Yeah, well, first off, there has never been an effort, at least on the part of the distilled spirits council to try to hinder in any way shape or form. In marijuana legalization, we typically don't take a position on it. You know, we we do have several recommendations, which the marijuana industry agrees with the you know, we want fair taxation, we'd like to make certain that there are, you know, we have an advertising code, we advocate for sensible advertising code, and, you know, we advocate for, you know, keeping it out of the hands of, of younger people, just really sensible regulations that be honest with you. From what I seen, most of the people advocating for legalized marijuana agree with So, you know, from that standpoint, we've never there's never been? I know, I've I've heard rumors about big alcohol, trying to stop marijuana. Well, I guess you can consider me part of big alcohol and we've never had any such effort. 39:46 And I haven't heard that either to counter that. I haven't heard about big alcohol or really the spirits industry trying to handcuff our growth. It's really been the prescription drug industry, handcuffing US and other categories. Outside of I've heard rumors, a certain craft beers and certain big beer business. But it's really, I haven't heard much of it. I've heard it all. On the other side on the prescription drug side? 40:08 Well, there's been there were 40:12 I can't remember the exact story, but it was when Bernie Sanders was running. And there the there were some distribution companies that were that their emails became public or something like that. And that's, that's really where the big alcohol against marijuana came in. You know, 40:33 David, you remember that? You know, 40:37 I do know that the distributors, from time to time have voiced their opinion that, you know, you have a three tier system for beverage alcohol wouldn't be great to have a three tier system for marijuana as well. I think that might be really what you're getting at. And, you know, it's it's the only natural that's, you know, they would want a piece of the business. 41:05 And I'm trying to find it here. And this was not something that I had added top heavy. 41:11 Well, while you look for that, I'll throw another question to David, because there's a question that came up in the chat. You know, you talked about Colorado and how it's been sort of sweeping, and it's just part of the culture, and it hasn't really had a whole lot of impact on the economics of spirits themselves. There was a question that says, but if you if you work for a national company, it could actually prohibit them from utilizing drugs within sir sorry, marijuana with inside of their state because it's against the corporate drug policy. So 41:40 I have no idea really what the the demographics are of big companies that are based in Colorado, if there's the workforce works for national companies that wouldn't allow that. So how accurate Do you think that that data really is? Real quickly, it was a part of the WikiLeaks dump. And there was evidence in there that they were trying to undermine marijuana legalization, and it was largely connected to Bernie Sanders his belief in ending prohibition on marijuana. So yeah, so that is accurate. It was and it was the people linked to it was the wine and spirits wholesalers of America. So go ahead. 42:20 Well, what was the question again, 42:22 about the data accuracy of Colorado Raza residents? You know, 42:28 if if you're a corporation, and particularly if you're operating heavy equipment, or something of that sort, you know, you have the right to protect yourself. I mean, you're out there, you have potential huge liability. You know, Is it right for them to have a zero tolerance policy? Well, you know, that's, that's a difficult question. You know, if if they are going to be working, if you're going, you're working for a company, and there's the potential that, you know, you could potentially do some sort of physical harm. You know, 43:10 that that's every corporations worst nightmare? 43:15 No, absolutely. And there's another question that came in the chat. And this one is, is more more directed at Klay? Here? And there was it was talking about kind of like experimentation and figuring how are you mixing or infusing and he said that there is a blueberry weed infused vodka that's out there. He's got one that's a nightcap that has a relaxing CBD oil, and is brandy. Do you sort of see this as as the future of what people can experiment with kind of using their own oils and their own stuff? 43:47 I don't know legally, where you could sell that. I mean, it sounds like that's a black market product. I mean, that's kind of our problem right now is we deal with black market where legally you can't buy that market and in store because you can infuse a little liquor, liquor and alcohol have to be in a separate wall with cannabis, we're not allowed to coexist together still. So people are going to do that there's that you can google it right now and teach yourself how to make it. You know, you're going to find products out there that are going to hit the market and their stores are going to sell them. You know, we I live in Venice Beach. And there's a ton of black market products out here that are just normally sold down the street that are in regular stores, just because it's the part of the culture here. So I think it's until we get a real full legislative kind of structure around it just like the ABC laws and all that you're going to have the Wild West with us for the moment until more states open up and the government kind of create some structure with us. 44:44 What is that? What is that goal? To sit there and try to move this across more state lines for your business or for the industry in general 44:54 goals, education, and then in the stigma. The problem is you have stoner stigma and the teachings young moments and all that stuff, which is which is a part of it. You know, 45:03 they said reefer madness, reefer madness. That's what I remember. It's 45:06 funny because our company we take reframe reefer madness, and we use that as our advertising campaign. So we've kind of flipped it where Yeah, it's good. It's bad, dangerous, stay away. It's cannabis, it's going to ruin your life like, no, it's it's education and understanding the the incredible benefits of the plan depending on who the user is. And if he's properly educated can find it so you can find something that may and our battles never been with the spirits and beer industry. At least on my side, our battles 100% been on the prescription drug side. So, you know, for us, it's just ending the ending the stigma, where I can call my homies at any of these whiskey companies and saying, hey, let's do an incredible collab together. Let's bring in some artists, let's do some art. Let's Fred, you know, I'll bring some Fred. Fred comes in, he does a whiskey tasting and, and I can bring a cannabis expert, and we do a canvas tasting and collide them. That's the ultimate goal is where these worlds can come collide for me. Because Because the whiskey culture, especially in my world, the whiskey culture, and the cannabis culture kind of coexist together at all times, just like beer. And I think there's ways of us helping each other grow through education. But our big problem is stigma. And people thinking that this is you know, the old This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs, commercial. Any questions? Well, I Fred's point, smoked weed. 12, for the first time did not become a stoner went to college, played college football have been on my own since I was 18. And it's funny, I'm from Colorado, so I'm a little different. So move from Colorado to California. So I'm a little bit fortunate in that. And and, and so it's never fully affected me, it's only helped me control things without me taking a pill. 46:41 Yeah, I will say, I was just at a conference in Washington, two weeks ago, where at least the short term political goal for the marijuana industry seems to be to get expensive, be able to deduct this expenses. You know, that's, that's a big concern right now. Also, they said, they would really like to get off of marijuana off of schedule one. So that you can make it easy to do research and then it also financially, they can start using the banking system. So they do have a number of short term political goals. 47:23 But it goes back to education. And then before before these politicians that are kind of driving the ship here, they've got to be educated on the benefits or the we've got to create change. And that's that's where our big Hancock has always been with prescription drug lobbyists. And then that and before then the paper industry and the logging industry because with have been legal, you're going to see a big change in that world very quickly. 47:47 What do you mean by the way, there's with me in legal how, what what sort of big changes do you think? 47:52 Well, hemp is a very, very strong structure, very similar to what you would get with wood and paper. But it grows from faster, it's it's cheaper to make it's it's, it's, it doesn't take up the same amount of land. It there's a lot of different usages for it as well. So there's, it doesn't make stronger rope can make your paper can it can kind of replace other things that have been big industries in this country for a while that aren't necessarily great for the environment at the same time have provides an alternative that 48:26 and by the way, there are hemp Bourbons that will be hitting the market soon and be rolling has took the hemp seed and added to a mash bill. And they are resting in their warehouses right now. 48:41 But the big thing you got to understand is what I was talking about infusion hemp and cannabis are not the same thing. They're been declassified. They're separate. That's where the Farm Bill allowed the hemp to come in. David, I think you're about to say something. 48:54 No, I was just gonna say the hemp does not have the THC in it. Yeah, there's no psychoactive properties. So 49:01 it's not it's not necessarily CBD either. So it's coming from that cannabis plant. So it's, it's just a different, it's just different. It's it and that's where they separated allowed it to be used in all 50 states now. 49:14 So for it, you know, I kinda want to get your take on this, you know, we've got we've got David's take that it's not going to have any sort of effects and in the broader market, I know that you are well connected to other distilleries and people that have, you know, that their financial stake is in is in their their spirits? Have you have you talked to any of them not without naming names or anything like that, where where they could potentially see that this is a future risk for their, their products. 49:43 Yes, I know, one in particular, who is not a distilled spirits council member who is adamantly opposed to only legalization of marijuana based solely on the fact of what he believes it will do to spirits. And this is a this is a, you know, a company that will put up a big fight, when that when the time comes, and we'll do everything it can to block people from infusing marijuana and alcohol, you know, because this is a, I would say, a very conservative thinking company that still still looks at the 1930s, you know, saying like, you know, they still try to be they try to do things that that would, you know, that could fly even under in the blue states, you know, so they're overly conservative and fear that, you know, there may be regulation put upon them. And, and the fact is, is kind of a lot of what David said, there's still still more studies to be done and everything I hear Klay advocating for are things that he would not necessarily I don't I don't think anybody what once once the marijuana is in someone's head, and once the spirit of someone's hand, you know, that then becomes an individual responsibility. I think what you're going to see the spirits community do is I think you will see a rift between the combination of those two things in a bottle, and that is that the marijuana and fleet fused bourbon, the marijuana flavored vodkas and stuff, I think that's where you will see more of the fight go on within the spirits industry. 51:28 And and I guess the question for you is, is it really a question of the spirit in general and the category classification, or is it a pocket book? Because as as Joe goes to the store to figure out what he wants to do this Friday night, if you got a bottle of bourbon or you got it out, or an eighth of we what's what's what's the choice? Is that what they're really worried about? 51:51 I that's a good question, David, go ahead. You know, 51:54 I will say oftentimes, when you look at survey data, indicates that you know, yes, these cannabis and alcohol are very much substitutes. However, when we've done focus groups, and you ask people who are marijuana users about their use of alcohol, oftentimes they're confused by the question because I say well, you know, cannabis marijuana's marijuana and alcohol is alcohol and we use them on different occasions Now obviously, there's always going to be some overlap you know, without a doubt, but I think perhaps the instances of overlap and therefore the substitute ability are a little bit overblown and you know, they're just not what people actually thought that they were 52:42 so he said occasion so like a three year olds birthday party is that now the 52:47 ripping Jays where you should be using either one of them but yeah 52:52 he's like I don't know about that 52:55 blows my mind because this is the category it's the data is out there this is this is good gonna be federally legal at some point, like more of the majority of the states in the union right now or at least in a medicinal state right now. This is going to happen if I was an alcohol company just like constellations doing I'd be learning everything I would about it so I can be be the go to of these cannabis consumers. You know, if there was a brand out there that said, Hey, Perrier whiskey with us and it competed with my my go to, I would give it a serious consideration because they're, they're connecting with me on a personal level now. And to me, that's how you can connect to a consumer. 53:32 Yeah, absolutely. With that, I think we'll we'll start wrapping up and Fred, unless you had any other questions that you kind of want to 53:38 tell her I wanna I wanted, I want to delve into this pairing a little bit more, because I think for a lot of people who regularly pair their stakes with bourbon, they're having a hard time figuring out how the hell do you pair smoking some pairing smoking weed, with? With whiskey? Because these are you smoke a cigar? Well, that's you said a cigar has flavor on the cigar has a flavor on the leaf. Are you suggesting that you guys have flavor on on that 54:07 the plant is a flavor. So every you know, we all have unique flavors, you have the strains, right? So the big thing in cannabis right now is we're trying to get away from the whole, if you don't know it into coast TV, I mean, you know, into cause more of the relaxation kind of put you to sleep strain. And this is more of an upbeat, creative, keep up thought process control. And then you have these hybrid strangers or more body highs and they can, you know, lean one way or the other. But there's flavor profiles in these cannabis strains. So there's, you know, there's just like when you taste bourbon Fred, you get tense of cinnamon or chocolates or something like that, you know, will get fruity flavors will get taste of orange and citrus and lemons and, and blueberries. And because the process of the cloning of these things now is there's flavoring starting to go on organically through other things, especially if you go to the extraction market. And we're pulling flavors out of the plant that organically in the plant that make it taste like juicy fruit. Now I know that's a problem with, you know, attaching yourself to a younger audience. But from me being a gum consumer, the only flavor I can consider it it's a tropical fruit flavor. But those are all natural flavors being pulled out through science. So yeah, there is ways of pairing so one of the reasons we chose our blackjack strain for heavy grasses, one of our first strains is that it has a spicier taste to it, which like I mentioned earlier, goes really well with with a bourbon on the you know, a bourbon neat, and that was the whole way of I could have a conversation with that. There's all their ways of flavor Rolling Papers all day. Full of pesticides too. If you really go through it I mean backwoods gets hit for pesticide problems. In the Rolling Papers. You know, Cannabis, the wonderful thing about cannabis is we're the most controlled industry from from from an agricultural standpoint. So there's so many rounds of testing going in and making sure it's clean. From the moment it leaves are the wherever it's been growing at to the moment consumers hand. 56:00 So there's not a barrel broker market for weed at this point is I trying to say there's there's 56:07 everyone's looking for the right strains. I mean, this is another obviously a, someone should write a book on this and there might be one out, but there's these legacy strains, legacy seeds that people are always looking for. And every strain of cannabis that's out right now kind of derived from 30. I think it's 13 or 14 original plants. So if you can find one of those plants is called Durbin, Durban poison. I think it's what it's called. But, you know, everyone's on the hunt for those because those are like legacy strains. So that's our Pappy, I guess. 56:34 Interesting. So Fred, you know, what this means is that you've just got more research to do to figure out if you can start doing these pairings. And you gotta be, you gotta be ahead of it. So when Kentucky gets the green light, you're the first one to capitalize on it. 56:46 Yeah, I knew you'd say that. 56:51 It's all it's all research and development. Yeah. But yeah, with that, gentlemen, I want to say thank you, again, for joining the show today. This was a fun conversation, because like I said, we're hitting on all the sins today. And and being able to figure out what what the impact of really what this means, especially to the bourbon consumers out there. And I think not even that maybe the consumers, maybe it's the audience that are the distributors and the distillers out there, and they can start taking this is a fresh nugget of information on how do they either adapt to the business, or do they capitalize on the business one of the other. So with that Clay I want you to give an opportunity just to let people know where they can find you either on social media or how to get in contact with you or anything like that. 57:35 Yeah, I mean, heavy grass, we're on Instagram, I think the best thing to do is go to our website, the heavy grass calm. That is our official website, you must be 21 and up to enter. So please make sure you're only 21 up I just liked I think the people listens. podcasts are required. But you can go there and find everything you can about get heavy grass, our lifestyle is a different websites get heavy.com that's where you can really get into the music and everything else we have going on. And then personally, you can always follow me on Instagram. That's where I'm most active at Clay Busch spelled like the beer, not the president. And, and that's how you can keep up with everything. I'm pretty active for everything we do. On my social. So where can is your is your product available in California, Colorado? Where is it available? Right now we're only in Los Angeles for a California Southern California, we're going to be here, you if you really want to get to know us, you got to come out to us. And you can come to one of our stores in Los Angeles, if you come out to take you to a show is fantastic whiskey bar called seven grand down here. We do our own pairings, and we have a good time. 58:41 Fantastic. We'll put that on the TripAdvisor reviews. 58:44 And David, go ahead if there's any way that people either want to get in contact with you or just learn more about the distilled spirits Council. 58:51 Sure you can find us at our website. It's the distilled spirits council.org. And there's information on there as to how to contact us and you know, just send a email to our public affairs department. And they'll be happy to get in touch with me. 59:05 Thank you everybody for joining in that we had a few people here on the chat giving some some information. We had some people that were joining us for the live. That's one of the great aspects of joining our Patreon communities that you can get early access to all these podcasts and everything else that we're doing before them. But make sure you also following us on social at Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at bourbon pursuit as well as also follow Fred Minnick on all those channels. And I'll let Fred plug everything because his list is never ending about everything that he's doing. 59:35 He's the busiest man I've ever met, by the way. 59:39 I don't know about that. Listen, I've worked with these festival promoters and they I don't know how they sleep because they always are putting out fires. So I would not compare what I do least bit to anybody who promotes some music festival. But you can find me on amazon prime. My show is bourbon up. I've got a YouTube series now called the curation desk, goes to subscribe to my magazine bourbon plus, find me on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Just search my name. Fred Minnick. 1:00:06 Awesome. And what that will see everybody next week.

Some of our dreams are unusual in the eyes of other people. The dream Allison Deppenbrock pursued is not something most people would even consider, much less accomplish. She’s achieved a very unique endeavor.  Allison went to Bayou la Batre (home of Forrest Gump’s shrimping business, Bubba Gump) to attend sea school so she could become a certified boat captain—one of few females who’ve done so. She and her husband wanted to navigate educational vessels for families and children in their home state of Kentucky.  For fourteen long, intense days, surrounded by twenty-six male sailors who Allison says fit the stereotype well, she studied. Classes lasted twelve hours each day, where she learned to read charts, memorize flags, and reviewed every detail of a boat’s anatomy. Then she crammed for tests at night, going over the specifics again, leaving room for an average of four hours sleep a night.   Tenacity, perseverance, resolve, and commitment were necessities, as Allison pursued this unusual dream. She said, “I had to work it, and I had to work it hard. There were many times I wanted to quit. There were challenges at home, flooding, a dear friend passed, and being the only woman added to the pressure. But I just prayed and prayed and prayed, and pushed through.” If you’ve tended any dream for any length of time, you already know the qualities and mindset Allison demonstrated are necessary for you as well. You have to dig deep to keep making the efforts to succeed. Dream tending requires practical steps, mental fortitude, emotional stability, but you can’t miss the spiritual aspect. It’s like a three-legged stool, if the spiritual leg is broken, the whole piece falls down. We need to make sure our spirits are cared for in the pursuits of our heart’s desires. Support is another crucial part of dream tending. When we have another human being in our lives who gets it, who gets us, can help us keep putting one foot in front of the other. Knowing someone is rooting for us, can drive us forward.   Filling Needs: Are you allowing yourself to opt out versus pushing yourself forward? Have you decided in advance not to give up on your dreams—and are you deciding it over again every day? Are you willing to push yourself through the tough stuff to reach a place of celebration? Your dreams can drain you, but in a “good tired” way. When you accomplish something most people haven’t had the guts to try, it’s powerfully energizing.   This episode’s Dream Tending Tips: Get out of your own mind and take a risk. Why not you? Allow yourself to imagine what might seem improbable. Try something new. Give something daring a shot. Dare to live! Say to yourself regularly, “I CAN do this!” Be your own advocate. Affirm yourself. Be your own encouraging voice. Refine your raw talents. Do you really want your dream? If you do, then push through and seize it with determination and decision! Once you achieve, don’t rest on your laurels, keep your skills sharp. If you’ve been allowing fear to hold you back—stop now! Give yourself permission to dream. Find out about Allison’s river guided trips and Buffalo Trace Tours on the Kentucky River at kyrivertours.com  Grab the Tending Your Dreams’ free giveaway at tendyourdreams.com/freebie35 for your gift, just for tuning in. I also have some special eBook pricing for you.   Type in the code TYDeb50 to get your copy of 4x4 Habit Overhaul, or One Minute Intervals™: Sixty Seconds to a Healthier, Foodier You, or Depression Busters, at over half off the normal price. Purchase a book bundle using the same code, and save even more.  But ACT NOW, before this special eBook discount offer is gone.   Until next time, remember, your dreams are waiting for you to grab and tend:  Take courage.  Excel daily.  Never stop believing.  Dare to dream bigger.

Leigh is out sick, but Carrie and Lauren are joined by three-peat guestomer Kyle Sutton, who actually is a pretty good replacement. Carrie gets a case of Clearly Canadian and we celebrate the Third Anniversary of GBS and talk basement concerts. Kyle gives us some insight on what it takes to host the first two rounds of the NCAA tournament with four days. We talk week four of the AAF including why teams should sign Johnny Manziel even though his girlfriend cheats at half marathons. News of the Weird brings us why you shouldn't eat undercooked chicken or drink your own urine and of course Take It of Leave it is coming in hot with the Spurrier cruise, avacado shoes, Jason Witten, GOT Oreos, baseball salaries, the Motorola Razr makes a comeback and Martha Stewart gets baked.

Leigh is out sick, but Carrie and Lauren are joined by three-peat guestomer Kyle Sutton, who actually is a pretty good replacement. Carrie gets a case of Clearly Canadian and we celebrate the Third Anniversary of GBS and talk basement concerts. Kyle gives us some insight on what it takes to host the first two rounds of the NCAA tournament with four days. We talk week four of the AAF including why teams should sign Johnny Manziel even though his girlfriend cheats at half marathons. News of the Weird brings us why you shouldn't eat undercooked chicken or drink your own urine and of course Take It of Leave it is coming in hot with the Spurrier cruise, avacado shoes, Jason Witten, GOT Oreos, baseball salaries, the Motorola Razr makes a comeback and Martha Stewart gets baked.

S7E2: Falsely Accused: The Devastating Story of Susan King’s Wrongful Conviction and the Detective Who Lied to Make It Happen Susan King served nearly seven years behind bars for a crime she didn’t commit. In November 1998, a fisherman found the body of 40-year-old Kyle Breeden in the Kentucky River. He had been shot in the head twice with .22 caliber magnum bullets and his legs were bound with guitar amplifier cord. The crime went unsolved for eight years until May 2006, when Kentucky State Police began re-investigating.  In April 2007, based on an investigation by state police officer Todd Harwood, Breeden’s on-again, off-again girlfriend, Susan King, was charged with murder and tampering with a crime scene. Harwood concluded that Susan shot Breeden twice in the head in the kitchen of her home following a quarrel. Susan, who had one leg and weighed 97 pounds, was accused of transporting the body to the river where she physically lifted Breeden’s 180-pound body over the railing of a Kentucky River bridge. She was also charged with trying to clean up the crime scene to hide evidence of the murder. In September 2008, Susan King entered an Alford plea to second-degree manslaughter in which she did not admit guilt, and she was sentenced to 10 years in prison. She served more than six years in prison before she was released on parole in November 2012. wrongfulconvictionpodcast.com Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom is a production of Lava For Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1 and PRX.

Mrs. When, Kentucky River, Steam Boats, Ferrys, and Locks

Host Bill Goodman is joined by historian Dr. William Ellis. He is the author of several books, including "A History of Education in Kentucky," "The Kentucky River," and "A History of Eastern Kentucky University." Dr. Ellis provides a thoughtful discussion of the history, funding, and future of education in Kentucky. In addition, Dr. Ellis details his latest book, "Irvin S. Cobb: The Rise and Fall of an American Humorist" which studies one of the highest paid and most celebrated American journalists of the early twentieth century.

While back visiting Kentucky for the holidays, I took my soon-to-be father-in-law and one of my best friends for a drive through the Bluegrass (physiographic region) to visit my favorite bourbon distillery. I've taken friends and family on tours of this distillery more than half a dozen times. The distillery tour helped me grow some fondness for Kentucky by learning the history behind a beverage that truly shaped its history since Euroamerican settlement. I even did some archaeology work on the grounds of the distillery when I first moved to Kentucky almost a decade ago. I built a deep appreciation for their bourbon when I was still learning the ropes of drinking booze for the actual flavor of it. If Buffalo Trace hadn't become my favorite distillery then, it has certainly become so now. So we met up with Nic Laracuente at Buffalo Trace. Laracuente is the Section 106 Reviewer for the Kentucky State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) and director of Bourbon Archaeology, a volunteer public archaeology venture to explore the innovations and cultural impacts of bourbon. Laracuente took us on a behind the scenes tour of the Bourbon Pompeii site, the moniker given to a recently excavated portion of the facilities in Frankfort, right on the banks of the Kentucky River. Here's the background story - Colonel E.H. Taylor acquired an already existing bourbon distillery in the 1800s and wanted to replace it with a more modern, industrialized distillery. That facility, Old Fire Copper (OFC), burned down in 1863 and was replaced by an expanded facility in 1873. This building supposedly used riverboats and a pier mounted to the river side of the building. It was a great, rare experience for us and you can see it for yourself if you have the chance to go tour the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort, Kentucky. The Bourbon Pompeii site is an interesting example of a free, open to the public, archaeology museum that also bridges the public-private sector. It is admirable that Buffalo Trace has demonstrated leadership and a commitment to historic preservation through supporting this project, and it has clearly paid off in visitor attendance.

Crawfishin’ on the Kentucky River ain’t easy!  In this four part series, Chris brings us the story of the O’Marley family, their houseboat on the Kentucky River and the cultural impact of crawfishing.  

Wendell Berry—farmer, essayist, novelist, poet, activist, teacher—lives with his wife Tanya on the banks of the Kentucky River. There he has farmed a Kentucky hillside for over half a century in his native Henry County, where his family has lived for eight generations.As a small-scale farmer who has used mules instead of machinery for plowing, Berry has taken a stand for decades against the destructive impact of industrial agriculture. He advocates for rural communities, for local economies, and for commitment to the land and one's place on it. Believing that one's work ought to be rooted in and responsive to one's place, he regards affection, knowledge, and memory as the prerequisites for good stewardship and good use.Wendell Berry delivered People, Land, and Community on October 24, 1981.If you would like a physical copy of this lecture or others like it, visit centerforneweconomics.org/order-pamphlets to purchase pamphlets of published works and transcripts. The Schumacher Center's applied work seeks to implement the principles described by these speakers within the context of the Berkshire hills of Massachusetts. Our work, both educational and applied, is supported by listeners like you. You can strengthen our mission by making a donation at centerforneweconomics.org/donate, or call us at (413) 528-1737 to make an appointment to visit our research library and office at 140 Jug End Road, Great Barrington, Massachusetts.

Buffalo Trace Distillery is the oldest continuously operating distillery in America. Herds of buffalo once thundered across this area of Kentucky where the distillery stands and they carved a path, which is called a trace.  This particular trace is called the “Great Buffalo Trace” and it led to the banks of the Kentucky River and gave the distillery its name. Some of the finest Kentucky Bourbon is made here. But there are more than just the drinkable spirits at this location. The kind of spirits that lead to tales of ghosts can be found here as well. Join us as we explore the history and hauntings of the Buffalo Trace Distillery. Moment in Oddity features beer made from elephant dung and This Day in History features the birth of Quantum Theory. Thanks to Jade Lewis for research help! Check out the website:  http://historygoesbump.com Show notes can be found here:  http://historygoesbump.blogspot.com/2015/12/hgb-podcast-ep-89-buffalo-trace.html  

Today we'll return to the Cove Springs Nature Preserve for a visit to the wetland for a quick lesson in geomorphology, which is the study of the shape of landforms. This city park is located north of downtown Frankfort on Highway 127 just north of the intersection with Wilkinson Boulevard. River systems can be classified by their basic shapes. Old streams, like the lower part of the Mississippi River have very low gradients, that is, the elevation changes very little over long distances. If water can go downhill only so fast and you can't pile it up, what happens when there is too much water? It spreads out. A stream or river will flood when there is more water coming in to its valley than can flow out. One way old streams handle extra water is with broad flat valleys, flood plains. Another way is to change the length of the river itself. The curves and loops in rivers, called meanders, are a balance between the amount of water a river has to carry and its gradient. This wetland is a cutoff meander. Many thousands of years ago, the looping Kentucky River once took a path around Fort Hill along Holmes Street and directly through this valley. The area is an ephemeral wetland, meaning the area alternates between being flooded and dry. Wetlands are an important habitat used by migrating and native birds, frogs, salamanders, snakes, deer, raccoon and many other animals and plants. The diversity of the things that live here make the area important. For more information on Cove Springs, visit www.frankfortparksandrec.com. This music is Eternityscape by HAK and is used under the Creative Commons License, see Archive dot org. The Kentucky Geological Survey is a research and public service institute that is part of the University of Kentucky. You can find us on the web at www.uky.edu/kgs.

Cove Springs Nature Preserve is a city park located north of downtown Frankfort on Highway 127. Cove Spring at the head of this valley is the source of Penitentiary Branch. Early pioneers in the Frankfort area used Cove Spring as a water supply; the spring water being cleaner and cooler than Kentucky River water. The gray and brown rock that makes the falls, the flat area where the bench sits, and the short vertical cliff at the base of the ridge form an outcrop of a rock unit known as the Tyrone Limestone. The Tyrone was deposited during the Ordovician, between 460 and 455 million years ago. During that time, Kentucky was covered by a warm, shallow, tropical ocean. Some of the animals that lived in those seas included trilobites and brachiopods, which is the Kentucky state fossil. You won't find many fossils in the Tyrone, however. For more information on Cove Springs, visit www.frankfortparksandrec.com. This music is Eternityscape by HAK and is used under the Creative Commons License, see Archive.org. The Kentucky Geological Survey is a research and public service institute that is part of the University of Kentucky. You can find us on the web at www.uky.edu/kgs.