Podcasts about kasita

Carole Namulindwa Kasita alias Karole Kasita is a Ugandan music artist, singer, and songwriter. She came into the music spotlight after the release of a hit song called Binyuma. She has sung songs like Bounce, Binyuma, Muhammad Ali, You, Chekecha, Nze Amulina, Tubidemu, and many others.

Meet Jeff Wilson, the founder and CEO of Jupe.    Jeff is a serial entrepreneur in the real estate technology industry.  If you were to have asked Jeff as a child what he wanted to be when he grew up, he would have either said a “garbage man”, “a doctor”, or “a builder of solar-powered cars” — so, yes, his interests have always been quite varied.   Before founding Jupe, Jeff founded the award-winning micro housing company Kasita, which was named one of Inc's 25 most disruptive companies in the World (alongside the likes of SoFi and Hyperloop).    Jeff is also known as ‘Professor Dumpster.'  He lived in a 33 sq. ft. modified trash dumpster for a year as part of a minimalist living and housing experiment during his time as a professor in the University of Texas System.   In this interview, you'll learn how Jeff sees the world, why he's so passionate about using Jupe as a vehicle to make offgrid living accessible and enjoyable, and how STR hosts can join the Jupe platform and design unforgettable, soul-enriching experiences for their guests by placing a Jupe on their property.    Alright, without further ado, get ready to meet Jeff Wilson.  Learn more about Jupe Stay in a Jupe Follow Jupe on Twitter Follow Jupe on Instagram Connect with Jeff on Twitter This week's episode is brought to you Guesty for Hosts — the bestie of top-rated Airbnb hosts.  Guesty For Hosts allows short-term rental hosts to manage listings from Airbnb, VRBO, and Booking.com in one calendar and send a series of automated messages before, during, and after their stay.   The platform also has features that help you manage cleanings, build a custom booking website, and so much more.   Start your 14 day free trial today — no credit card, set up fee, or commitment required — and cancel anytime if you don't love it.   While getting started, use the discount code “SPONSTAYNEOUS” for 20% off of your first year."   Behind the Stays is brought to you each week by Sponstayneous — a free, biweekly newsletter that brings subscribers the best last-minute deals and upcoming steals on Airbnb.     You can subscribe, for free, at www.sponstayneous.com   

Singer Carol Kasita says, she will not stop wearing her short outfits and disagrees with the notion that dressing skimpily is why fans sexually harass female artistes.

A conversation with Gabri Christa director of the short film, Kasita, and the documentary, One Day At A Time, streaming on kweliTV. Interview by: DeShuna Spencer, CEO of kweliTV Edited by: Michael Pittman, kweliTV Fellow

Jeff Wilson, also known as Professor Dumpster, is a former HBCU environmental science professor and a serial tech entrepreneur. He is currently the co-founder and CEO of Jupe, a hardware startup that creates flat packed shelters and software platforms that operate off grid.As Professor Dumpster, Jeff has lived in a 33 sq. ft. modified trash dumpster as part of an environmental education and minimalist housing experiment. His work on sustainability and minimalism has been covered broadly by publications like Forbes, The Atlantic, NY Times, and The Washington Post.Jeff talked to us about his “Dumpster Project” as well as his previous and current startup ventures. As an entrepreneur, Jeff has founded and built a micro housing startup, Kasita, that was sold off in 2018. Jeff's latest company Jupe, has been a part of the recent Y Combinator batch, and Jeff also highlights what he learned from that experience.In our conversation with Jeff we also discuss the details of how his current product works, the challenges of building a hardware company, picking the right co-founder, and… fundraising at the urinals.

EPISODE 57 The Pod is on! The L Meter was not too heavy this week. Kasita and Trey bring out some relics and new classics for KOTD. This episode is global! We start off in Amsterdam and look how #Patta is hearing up fr their new collab with Nike, Drake sends his love on an Air Force One, and Kanye moves in to Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta and brings his 1020v boots with him We drop in on Tokyo for the laugh of AURALEE 's touch on New Balance 550, Jun Takahashi of UNDERCOVER takes on the Dunk High '85, and Adidas issues Spida's Olympic shoe despite him not being on the roster. Tracking Order gets trippy with Jaden Smith and New Balance, Reebok honors AI with a Olympic-themed Question Mid, and Chitose Abe doubles down on sacai Blazer Low. ALL THIS AND MORE ON EPISODE 57 OF THE CREASED PODCAST! And like always #AintNoHalfSteppin --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Back like a certain Nike superstars hairline, it's the Creased Podcast with the 54th episode! Phat (with the -Ph) episode that's jammed pack with a few weeks worth of kicks! Started off with the ever dreadful L-Meter which was fun this week and then we move on to the real show with KOTD. This week Kasita pulled out a high-quality, luxury pair while Trey went with a high-quality, casual pair. Tag #CreasedPod and let us know what you're rocking! Fresh Out the Box had three of our most frequent sneaker makers in Kanye, Travis Scott and Virgil Abloh and we break down exactly what they have going on in the sneaker-verse. Order Confirmed not only included a pair of dunk lows, a Yeezy 350, A NERF pack, but Salehe dropped again!!! You don't wanna miss it. We close out the episode with two pairs to look out for this week on Tracking Order with the LeBron x Diana Taurasi pair and possibly one of the best Jordan 4s of the year! Tune in to Episode 54 and find out exactly which pairs are "Algae Free" this week! Thanks for checking out the Podcast, don't fiogrget to subscribe on YouTube and follow on IG. #CreasedPod and don't forget.... Ain't No Half Steppin'!!!! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Somebody: Hol' up..... is that the Creased Podcast back with another one?!? Creased Pod: YOU RIGHT! Back again with another big episode of the pod with all the breakdowns, unveilings and banter you'd ever need on a podcast! L-Meter got the show jumping with the last...maybe last...prolly not last drop of the A Ma Maniere x Jordan 3, sacai blazers and unfortunately so much more that the squad didn't hit on. KOTD preceded with Treezy's pulling out a Jordan 1 for an MLB player while Kasita went with a recent pick-up from the Dunk World. Fresh Out the Box remained heavy with talks of Jordan brand patenting their models, the next musical superstar to get their own shoe, Adidas newest model that plays off their former moneymaker and which NFL QB just signed with Jordan Brand after being a face of Adidas??? Not going to tell you the shoes on Order Confirmed but know that Bodega, AMBUSH, Skepta and Jeff Staple are all involved, IT'S LIT!! Tracking Order closes the episode by highlighting two big-time dunk, one high and one low as well as some LeBron retro talk you won't want to miss! Thanks for tuning in and don't forget.. Ain't No Half Steppin'!!! #CreasedPod IG: @creased.podcast --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Just like this Houston weather, Creased Podcast is starting to HEAT things up with our latest sneakers updates and exclusives. Even with a couple dubs the L-Meter was moving like Dogecoin this week, but when KOTD rolled around Kasita was ready with a brand new pick-up while Trey went with a Jordan classic. Fresh Out The Box started this episode off lit (*STRAIGHT UP*) with Travis Scott dropping another pair on his birthday while JB blessed Zion with his first signature model. Not to skip over sacai's newest collab with Jun Takahashi's UNDERCOVER, you don't wanna miss it! Bit soft on Order Confirmed this week with a pair of GR Jordan's and a LeBron x atom collab (chill, we talked about the Travis' too!). Closed episode 48 out with the groovy "Magic Mushroom" SB, a New Balance from overseas and and a deep look, literally, into Supreme and their new collab on the Air Max 96. We also mention our recent trip to a vintage shop called Tipping Point right here in downtown Houston that serves coffee and swag daily! Find out which pair get the "Sneaker Ratio" on this week's edition of the Creased Podcast! Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow our IG today! #CreasedPod --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

On the 37th episode of the Creased Podcast, the squad jumps into February with a few more tacks onto the L-meter before getting into a classic JB KOTD Battle. Trey might actually get one this week with his Stealth Air Jordan 10 from 2012, but Kasita pulls out a coffee-inspired retro that may have him taking the belt back to his crib. Innovator, creator, teacher and industry leader Dwayne Edwards is out first BHM honoree, we salute him for creating some of our favorite models and his lasting legacy he continues to imprint to this day. The boys then discuss their favorite BHM models from over the years. Wrapping up our Fresh Out of the Box segment, we discuss Jerry Lorezno and the state of Adidas as FOG joins the fold. Order Confirmed kicks off over-the-pond with Junior's Clint shoe, a new model shaking up the scene. The Clint's are followed up by the lone dunk of episode 37 as well as a trio of New Balance's in classic Jordan color schemes. We finish the show, as always, with Tracking Order where this week we preview the Super Bowl, including the Air Jordan 12 in very suspicious colors. Lastly, to very interesting collars, Reebok goes eco-friendly while Adidas gets sweet! Tune in to the Creased Pod weekly, you don't want to miss out on the latest drops and updates, do you? We've got it all and it's simply the best sneaker show on earth! #CreasedPod --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

The big 3-0! #NoStephCurryDoe. Kasita and Trey kicks this episode off with shoutouts to Hip Hop Vintage Flea Market and Dios before getting into KOTD. One host pulled out 2020 dunks and the other pulls put a 2013 Jordan baseball pair! Fresh Out the Box started with the limited Manila 4s, Curry's new brand and of course another YOTD update! J. Balvin and Yeezy kick off Order Confirmed before closing it out with our first Christmas drop of the year. Tracking Order closes the epiosde with upcoming Stussy collab, holiday Jordan 11s and a pair of Gel Lyte III's you won't want to miss! Ho Ho Ho, watch the Creased Show!!! make sure you check out Episode 30 of the Creased Podcast so you don't miss anything in the sneaker world. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

YES, WE HAVE A GIVEAWAY WINNER! The Creased Pod duo kicks things off by announcing the winner of the first ever giveaway plus more details. Very interesting KOTD Battle this week with Kasita pulling out a Jordan classic and Trey going with a Houston-esque PE! The team closes the case on the Warren Lotas trial and talks about two collabs with three brands each in Fresh Out The Box. Order Confirmed is firmly centered around the Kobe 5 "Bruce Lee" and "Alternate" pairs that dropped, although the Bayou Boys and the women Jordan-heads are also in for some updates. We shut the door on Ep. 29 with the one shoe you'll need to know about this Black Friday, as well as an upcoming Air Max 1 and Yeezy 380s. So before you drink too much and order shoes on StockX (or eBay cause they do sneaker authentication now) this Thanksgiving, make sure you check out Episode 29 of the Creased Podcast so you don't miss anything in the sneaker-verse! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

2 + 8 = 10, making Episode 28 perfection! The Creased Squad is back killing it with another heater of a KOTD battle between Kasita's Black Cement Jordan 3s while Trey pulls out a LeBron 9 for 2011! The purchasing of Supreme, Travis Scott's most latest endeavor (*checks Twitter* Yeah, he hasn't done anything else yet,) an ADAPTation of the Jordan 11 and The Trials of Warren Lotsas kick off Episode 28. Order Confirmed gets wild talking about another Baroque Brown pair and the new Pyer Moss X Reebok collab, not to mention Yeezy's 750 v3. Tracking Order closed out with another anniversary pack Air Max, a Bape collab with Adidas and the duo fills everyone in on the last chance to get the Concepts "Mallard" Dunk Hi! Want to find out why you should be in the DMs? Check out Episode 28 "DM for Info" now! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitterand YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Episode 27 hittin' harder than Altuve! #notrashcan. Kasita & Trey are back speaking on the sneaker realm and while they both pulled out pairs from 2020, Trey's Parisian-inspired jays have a tough time keeping up with a candidate for YOTD champ! A cross-over quick statement on the new AI's start off Order Confirmed, finished by Pharrell's monotone NMDs and a retro Air Max. A little trash talk on Tracking Order breaking down Jalen Ramsey's signature shoe, another lemonade Air Max and an update on Nike's Sacai Vaporwaffle to close the day. Who's getting free Blueberry Lemonade? Find out on Episode 27 of the #CreasedPod! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitterand YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

It's SPOOKY SZN around this way! Creased team is back with another week of cops, drops and just a few pitstops. Kasita & Trey list the best Halloween-themed shoes EVER and find out what Beyonce, Drake and Cactus Jack are up to in the sneaker world! The Yeezy Monster and Pharrell have spots on Order Confirmed as well as KD's Aunt and Newcastle's own, END. clothing. Since it's Halloween, we'll keep it a mystery and let you find out what Tracking Order has up it's sleeve (it's spooky, might be Mocha's and you don't want to miss it)!! Freddy, Jason, nasty ass Hannibal and all the worst are coming for you if you don't watch Episode 25 "Tricks & Kicks!" We warned you. Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitterand YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Bean. Black Mamba. KB24. Mr. 81. Episode 24 is for for Kobe. We kick the episode off with another solid KOTD battle, Trey with a Kobe tribute and Kasita whipping out a fresh pair. Warren Lotas' trouble, Undefeated's Kobe 5 and SNKRS' History of the Dunks fill up Fresh Out The Box. Next we get our first ever interview on the Creased Podcast with the Brown Mamba himself, Earth's biggest Kobe fan, our friend Frankie! We talk about signature moments, meeting Kobe and so much more! Order Confirmed has three pair of Nike's alongside Tyler the Creator's latest project while LeBron, Supreme and a Versace VP round out Tracking Order for this one. Watch Episode 24 to learn more about The Slow Seconds! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitterand YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Episode 22 is back for more like the Astros and you don't wanna miss it! Everything from Yeezy changing names to Euro-only releases and possibly the most PHAT (with the PH-) Year of the Dunk segment yet. Disagreements galore on Order Confirmed with atmos and OG Nike's involved. Tracking Order closes out with Kasita teaching MICHAEL JORDAN a "lesson" and Trey getting bombarded after admitting to like said pair! Big beef on Episode 22 so check it out and make sure you follow our channel so you don't miss out on any upcoming content! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitterand YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

21 like Jimmy in the Chi! Creased team back with another hot episode including Kicks of the Day where Kasita pulls out a recent banger and Trey goes with a nostalgic pair. Virgil and Kanye are major players in Fresh Out The Box along with a pack of Jordan 3s that have been hiding for a while. Order Confirmed is as FAT as it will ever be with heat after heat since we took last week off and Tracking Order is also filled with early-Fall favorites including a Yeezy and a few Air Max's! Check out Episode 21 to see what's poppin' in the sneaker world and make sure you follow our channel so you don't miss out on any upcoming content! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitterand YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Steppin' back into it like a James Harden jumper, Episode 19 with the Creased squad is back to turn up once again! Kasita & Trey talk about Big Wex dropping a stunner and bouncing from Adidas, a Black Friday drop for all our Jordan 4 whores out there as well as the inevitable Year of the Dunk segment. Yeezy and Jumpman take over most of the final two segments, but there are definitely gems dropped in between! Check out Episode 19 to find "The Balance," and make sure you follow our channel and don't miss out on any upcoming content! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitter and YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

After a week off for some rest and relaxation, the team brings it with a stacked Episode 14! Kasita and Trey will dive into a pair of shoes that was "Banned" back in the 80's, the new Union x Jordan 4s and they'll even recap some of the hottest drops from the last couple weeks. Creased has the scoop on all of the upcoming Jordan's and overseas releases coming up this next week as well. Lastly, for Sittin On The Shelf this week, the topic centers around customs. Not your average customs with a little paint but we are talking big designers like Warren Lotas and Mache! DON'T MISS THIS ONE! Thanks for listening and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on Instagram, Twitter and YouTube and always remember, #AintNoHalfSteppin! Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode of the Creased Pod! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Today has inspired a major leap forward, this podcast highlights some changes moving forward.

Dason Whitsett is principal architect at Kasita, a modern builder of prefabricated micro-homes. His belief is that buildings should enhance life for both the individual and for the environment and that everybody should have access to a great, well-designed space. By building its homes in a factory environment, the company can use manufacturing efficiencies to produce a high-quality building for a cost that is comparable to site-built construction. Tune in to hear more of Whitsett’s thoughts on how builders can help to make their homes flexible enough to adapt as technology changes and about how Kasita approaches the challenges of adapting to zoning laws in different communities.

To truly understand what’s its like to live small and comfortably, Jeff Wilson gave away most of his possessions and moved into a 33-square-foot dumpster. His experience led him to start Kasita. Any way you can imagine a Kasita is the right way. With its compact footprint and all-in-one delivery, the Kasita goes where other homes cannot, whether that's an urban backyard, a rooftop, or the rural retreat you've been dreaming about. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Trust Ventures, an Austin-based venture capital firm has raised an initial $35 million fund, backed by Koch Disruptive Technologies, a subsidiary of Koch Industries, to invest in and support “innovative startups facing public policy barriers.  Salen Churi and Brian Tochman lead Trust Ventures. Previously, Churi worked as a law professor and founded the Innovation Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School. He also practiced law at Kirkland & Ellis and Sidley Austin.  Tochman was the co-founder, president and chief operating officer of Kasita, an Austin-based startup that builds modular homes and apartments. Previously, he worked as vice president of mergers and acquisitions for Platinum Equity, a Beverly Hills, CA-based private equity fund.

Remember the guy who sat by the side of the road, clipping his nails, during our podcast interview? Remember the guy who lived in a dumpster for a year and is actually proud to call himself “Professor Dumpster”? We certainly do and following our first interview with Jeff Wilson, he invited us to “look him up” if we were ever in Austin, Texas. So, Michelle did. And, following her recent visit, she knew she must invite him back to tell the next chapter of the story that is Kasita. Whatever happened to his vision, to his original ideas? Admittedly, Michelle isn’t a high tech junkie, but after having stayed in a tiny house outfitted with the best technology money can buy, she might just convert. How well did the technology contribute to her comfy home away from home? And, what’s next for Jeff and his company that, by comparison, appears to be all grown up now? Tune in this week to find out! Or, better yet, invest in his vision! (I know he won’t mind the shameless plug.) www.kasita.com

In this episode, Tom is joined by Jeff Wilson, Founder and Chairman of Kasita, which builds 352-square-foot smart tiny homes that boast the latest technologies. Jeff discusses founding his company and how he temporarily lived inside of a dumpster to help fix the homeownership crisis. Kasita's first batch of stackable homes will be delivered in December 2017, at the price of $139,000.

In this episode, Tom is joined by Jeff Wilson, Founder and Chairman of Kasita, which builds 352-square-foot smart tiny homes that boast the latest technologies. Jeff discusses founding his company and how he temporarily lived inside of a dumpster to help fix the homeownership crisis. Kasita's first batch of stackable homes will be delivered in December 2017, at the price of $139,000.

John Boyd: LinkedIn Show Notes: 01:27 - Knocki 03:20 - The Device 06:19 - Complexity 08:44 - Software Distribution 14:01 - Allocating Memory 18:27 - Finding Hardware Hacking Libraries 22:01 - Updating and Diffing 24:06 - Migrations 26:51 - Decentralization of IoT 35:39 - Managing the Knocki Ecosystem 40:17 - Communication Standardization Resources: Malloc Transcript: CHARLES: Hello, everybody and welcome to The Frontside Podcast, Episode #81. My name is Charles Lowell. I'm a developer and your podcast host-in-training here at the Frontside. With me today is Elrick Ryan. Hello, Elrick. ELRICK: Hey, how are you doing Charles. Welcome back. CHARLES: Yeah, thank you. It's good to be back. Today we're going to be continuing the ongoing series that we've been doing intermittently on the Internet of Things. It's a really fascinating, almost to a person fascinated with here at the Frontside. Today, we have with us to talk about this, someone who's very, very knowledgeable on the subject, John Boyd, who I got an opportunity to talk with, I guess it was about a month ago and I wish that we had the podcast recording equipment there in the room because it was just a very, very well-versed engineer, exactly the person you want to be the CTO of your company, which is very lucky for Knocki, the company that he works for, because he is in fact the CTO there. Welcome to the show, John. Thanks for coming. JOHN: Yeah, thank you very much, Charles and I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to join the conversation this week. CHARLES: Yeah, why don't you start by what it is that you do at Knocki? Most of our audience comes from software and design and product management backgrounds. You've got a very strong hardware background. How does that play in to what you do at Knock? JOHN: Yes, certainly. As you previously mentioned, I'm CTO at a startup called Knocki, which you can mount onto any surface and turn that surface into a user interface. We're recently funded on Kickstarter so we're in the process of actually trying to develop this hardware but the central concept is any surface that you mount this on will now listen for touches and vibrations so you can say, mount it on a desk and tap three times on your desk and control your smart home around you. If you have smart speakers or TV, you can tap three times out of four times and control those devices with a really natural interioractive interface made out of anything in your home already. CHARLES: Tabletops, mirrors, I assume you've tested this on a lot of different services. JOHN: Yes, I'm sure we'll talk about that more a little bit later but the goal is to be able to turn any surface into user interface. That means if you really wild and you want to use it on the window, I recommend it. But we're thinking desks, walls, doors. It has a lot of applications for disabled and handicapped individuals. Think of a child or someone in a wheelchair that can't quite reach a light switch, if they have a Knocki mounted on the wall, they can still knock on the wall to control the lights. We feel like it adds a new level of user interface to people's lives that can be helpful. CHARLES: Definitely. Seeing the product and hearing you talk about it, I definitely got that impression. Now, the device that you actually brought into the office because you did come in and talk to us, like I said it was about a month ago but it was extremely tiny. In our explorations into the Internet of Things, we do things like control our lights from within the office. At least, we're trying to control our lights within the office. For us, we're using the standard kit. We've got Raspberry Pis that we're using, that are have access to a plug and they've got a full Linux install, just a really powerful processor and by comparison to the things that you were talking about, that's energy hog by comparison. We think of it as being very lightweight but if you're talking about making some small device, it's actually really, really wasteful of resources, so to speak. What is that transition that spectrum which you moved from these one-off hobbyist things where you're using high-powered equipment to these really custom devices? How do you make that transition? And what is the difference between the two? JOHN: Our devices are about the size of a hockey puck, which is much smaller if you can think of a Raspberry Pi. Pretty difficult to fit that inside of a hockey puck, especially when you want to start adding some sensors to detect knocks and taps on a surface. I don't hate or dislike the Raspberry Pi or BeagleBone Black or any of those really quick SBCs that can get you started with IoT. But they have -- CHARLES: Acronym alert. What is an SBC? JOHN: SBC, single board computer. It's any of those credit cards size computers. CHARLES: Okay, great. So nothing against the SBCs like BeagleBone Black or Raspberry Pi. JOHN: Exactly. It's a great way to prototype ideas and get in a proof of concept out there and there are some cases where actually, they're great choices for a full-fledged product. A lot of cases in IoT, people are more concerned with things that you carry around with you so they have to be battery powered and you need to be a little bit more conscious about energy economy. You need to be very cost-effective with your components and it doesn't make sense to buy an expensive Raspberry Pi for each unit. CHARLES: Did you actually start with a Raspberry Pi, when you were developing this product or something that's like an SBC? JOHN: I actually went straight to a microcontroller dev kit. I started with Texas Instruments' CC3200 LaunchPad. It's a little bit lower level than SBC like the Raspberry Pi. It doesn't run Linux. The firmware I started off writing as a proof of concept was still embedded C bare metal software. CHARLES: How much complexity does that add? There's just a lot of nice things about having an operating system and being able to have your compilers, I guess you have a compiler tool chain, but having being able to install big programs like interpreters so that you can run Ruby and JavaScript on there. There's just nice things like scheduling. If you've got a bunch of processes running on this device, you don't have to worry about them, saying who's going to get what processor time. I assume that you're having to deal with all of that if you're writing the firmware by hand using C, right? JOHN: That's 100% true. There's definitely some great advantages to using a little more powerful system that can run a full Linux stack or full OS. As you mentioned, the design complexity is reduced a lot because you can import other people's code and you have a full operating system to handle most of the drivers in the system. You're right. There's a lot more complexity. We have to write all of that ourselves in C. But that's the fun part about it to me. I love getting down there and writing drivers that can communicate with accelerometers and set them up. As far as scheduling goes, for getting concurrent software running on your embedded system. There are RTOS's -- real-time operating system that can provide basic scheduling. For the brave, you don't even have to use that. You can use a lot of the embedded timers inside the microcontroller itself. But to answer your question, it is a lot more complex but one of the tradeoffs to get a device that small, beautiful and also has a battery life that can last many months or a year. CHARLES: Yeah, it almost sounds like the complexity but you're not going to save yourself any time prototyping it in tools that have all those things because you're essentially going to have to be rewriting your system from scratch, because those things are just a nonstarter if you want low profile devices. JOHN: Yeah, there's definitely a lot of rework would have to be done but those SBC systems are still very useful for prototyping the cloud side. Internet of Things is hardware and internet when it comes to building out your cloud interface. CHARLES: Yeah, that's definitely true. You're running a bunch of software on this device. The software that you've written, how do you actually distribute the software because we're very used to in our world, software distribution is not a problem. That's what made the web so popular. While we were willing to deal with really crappy tools on the web for a really, really, really long time, the distribution model was just so nice. You're also having to deal without that too when you're operating in the device space. But the challenges are still there. If you've got a bug on one of these things, how do you even detect it and how do you get a fix out there? JOHN: Obviously, any software is prone to bugs. Nobody writes a perfect code the first time. If you do, I'd love to hear about it. Obviously, one of the big concepts in IoT is security and to have a secure product, we need to be able to patch bugs as they arrived. A big really important feature in any good IoT product is the ability to remotely upgrade the firmware or send the patches as part of the maintainability that prevents big software bugs from turning your IoT product network into a botnet. A lot of our time is actually spent trying to make sure that our remote update capabilities are reliable, always functioning and globally distributed. You'd think this is an easy problem to solve but when you're working on a microcontroller that's not running an operating system, running bare metal code, things get a little bit more complicated when you want to make sure that any device anywhere in the world can install the next version of firmware reliably. CHARLES: Right. At any time there's a software update, it's always, it bugs me and then do I want to do this and it's always optional. There's none of that, right? It's just what a new version of the firmware goes out, boom! It goes out there. JOHN: You can design it in different ways. There are some great products out there. Apply the firmware update through the user's phone so you may open up your products application and it says, "There's an update available. Go update." That's definitely one way to do it but that's the problem if the user is not home and maybe they've set this device up in a guest house and they won't be home for six more months, then you have a device that could be vulnerable for six months, which is a long time in the world of software. CHARLES: Yeah, that's true. JOHN: To get around that, obviously our preferred solution is to have the device checked into our cloud servers to see if the device itself has updates available and then go through the download and update process that way, just to make sure even if the user is not home or never opens their mobile app, it will still get those critical security updates. CHARLES: Sounds hard. You're running a risk of bricking someone's device if that update doesn't go very well or it loses internet in the middle or power. JOHN: Very true, especially when you go towards a bare metal microcontroller with limited memory and limited processing capabilities, unreliable internet connection, a lot of work has to be done on the device side to make sure if something goes wrong during the firmware download process or installing the image correctly that it has a backup image. If you're downloading a new firmware upgrade and the download gets corrupted halfway through, make sure you have an old image that you can boot into. That's one part of it. The other part is detecting that it went bad if it gets past downloads in your image and then it reboot itself and tries to boot into it, how do you know that that image actually isn't behaving the way you want it to and then go ahead and revert back into that original stable version. CHARLES: I assume there's some key so that you can verify, not only that the image is not corrupt but it's a certified Knocki image that's coming down the wire? JOHN: Exactly. We signature verification, again something that I think anybody on the internet should be using when you download new software but make sure that the new firmware update was actually written by Knocki and you're not installing someone else's code. Another important factor is just please use HTTPS secure SSL connections to your server, then that reduces the possibility of someone taking over and giving you their own firmware image. But there are a lot of low power devices out there that are being used to make IoT products. These low power devices are important for many reasons but they have restrictions and sometimes, their security capabilities are limited. Maybe doing encryption on the device and actually are doing certificate verification. That's a costly operation. CHARLES: It sounds like there's a lot of cycles that that consumes. JOHN: Definitely. Most people try to make sure they have the resources to solve these problems but at the same time, there are a lot of developers out there that are cutting corners and that's where you get these big news stories about IoT products getting taken over. CHARLES: Along that vein, it's your reality but it constantly blows my mind that things that you're living without when you're programming for these devices like Knocki is do you have to write your own network stack? When you're doing these downloads, that's kind of like got it all. You've got the encryption piece that you've got to do to make sure that you're connecting over SSL so you've got to do the whole handshake and you've got to do the key exchange and the certificate verification and then the packets come in asynchronously so your message is arriving asynchronously in bits so the header is being assembled, now I've got the HTTP headers, now I can go ahead and get the body. There's a lot that happens for us when we're making a simple Ruby request. We're basically like resource.get. Boom! And it just comes to us fully assembled in memory. How much do you have to hand roll all of that? Are there libraries for doing it? How do you put that process together of just even downloading the image? JOHN: Fortunately, there are tons of open source freely available libraries for embedded C software that can help us solve these problems -- CHARLES: Is this like a genre of software like if I want to go look for these libraries, how I look for them? JOHN: In my example, all of our firmware is written in C or C++. Since we're working on a microcontroller with limited resources, it's important to look for libraries that don't use dynamic memory allocation. That's why it's a really big [inaudible]. Some software relies really heavily on that but -- CHARLES: When you say dynamic memory allocation, you're talking about like Malloc? JOHN: Exactly. CHARLES: You are basically are allocating memory on the heap. When you're doing for this, you basically want to do everything on the stack. Now, is that just because the instruction set of the processor doesn't support it or is it because it's just there be dragons like here there be dragons? JOHN: That particular scenario is actually just due to resource limitations. There's just not a lot of memory on our device. We do use Malloc in some cases but we have to be very careful about when we use it and make sure that it's always going to have the memory required or if it doesn't have the memory required, there's some fail safes involved. If you just use someone else's open source library and they're allocating memory left and right, they could end up causing issues on your embedded system. CHARLES: Right. Now, just a little bit of background for people who might not be fully familiar with Malloc, it's just when you're executing a program, you have this heap memory, which is where you store random stuff and then you have your stuff on like the call stack. Your variables that are on the call stack are in one place and then your just generic data structures that could be accessed from anywhere are in this thing called the heap. Our dynamic languages that we use like Ruby and JavaScript, the heap is hot stuff. Like everything gets allocated on the heap, that's why they consume these huge amounts of memory and then the things that are on the stack, really are just pointers that are referencing these big bags of data that are on the heap. But it sounds like you've got the exact opposite situation where you don't want to have big bags of memory that are just floating around in a heap and you want to do everything inside that stack. JOHN: Exactly. I couldn't have said it better. CHARLES: Anyway, you're looking for libraries that don't do that because it sounds like any time you want to allocate memory on the heap, that's going to be shared for the whole program, that space is very limited so you want to be very, very, very strict. You want to control that process. You don't want any other library that's doing it for you. Is that fair? JOHN: That's correct. That's also one specific example, dynamic memory allocation of the things that you want to make sure your other software libraries aren't going to be abusing. But in general, you need to make sure that any code that you're putting is compatible with your system. It doesn't have some special hardware requirement that your embedded system doesn't have. CHARLES: Right. For people who want to get into hardware hacking, is there some golden seal of approval like the people say like, "This library is great for embedded devices." Like I said, a lot of times when you're coming into it, you don't know what to look for so what you're really looking for is some expert or authority on the subject who can say, "This is good. This is not good." It is like, "Don't even look at this library because you're going to find something else because this is not embedded-friendly." JOHN: That's a good point. I wish there was a golden seal of approval or I wish I knew one, at least. Normally, most of our code that we uses are hosted on GitHub. Usually, we try to find software that was optimized from embedded systems and the author of that code will usually mention -- CHARLES: That [inaudible] me. JOHN: Exactly. This was designed for microcontrollers. ELRICK: I was going to ask if there's a golden standard when you're building these type of devices. Is there a checklist of things that if someone's going to build something similar that these are good things on your checklist that you should attempt to check off, if you're building this sort of device or want to build something similar. CHARLES: Now, you mean things like update and whatnot? ELRICK: Like updating or like how you were mentioning avoiding dynamic memory allocation. Anything, you can just shoot from the hip, like these are things that you should watch out for a lot of your battery power, you should look out for this or anything. JOHN: Yes. I definitely think the number one consideration that the biggest check box and [inaudible] before it goes out the door is going to be your security suite. Make sure your internet connections are encrypted: SSL, TLSL, that good stuff. Then as we hit on earlier, making sure that you always have a way of updating the device but don't use back doors. A lot of people think to update your device, you should put a back door access and you can go in and download updates that way. That's not the answer. ELRICK: That's like the back door that they were looking for in Apple like, "Do you guys have a backdoor to get into your device?" No. JOHN: No. That can be a controversial conversation. CHARLES: Yeah, or they're like, "Come on, really. It's okay. You can show us the backdoor." No, there is no backdoor. "I know you have to say that. Blink-blink." ELRICK: That's an interesting problem that you guys are solving on how to update these devices. You guys are essentially hand rolling or developing custom software to do that. JOHN: Again fortunately, we're using a Texas Instruments SSC system on a chip. They provide some core functionality, some core drivers that really help us out. For example, they provide a special bootloader that can really assist with a lot of the firmware download back up framework image checking, that sort of functionality. We don't have to write it all by scratch but we do have to write the logic to make sure that the device does check for updates and it doesn't forget to check in and talk to us. ELRICK: On the cloud side, do you guys have to write any custom software to do diffing, to make sure like -- Oh, do you diffing? Or do you just update everything all complete, like once you're updating, you're going to get a brand new update or do you diff and say, "You only need this." JOHN: Since we're working on the system that we're using, it just requires a fully-compiled image that gets installed by the bootloader. We can't really send just a patch to one part of the firmware, if that's what you're asking. CHARLES: But I assume there must be some state that's on the Knocki itself. Just even the credentials for the local Wi-Fi network, what devices it's connected to, part of the system is updating and part of it is not, I assume but how do you make sure that that state is compatible with the new firmware? JOHN: Yeah, that's another great point to keep in mind. The way we keep most of, we call it nonvolatile memory, every time the device reboot, it's going to forget about everything that was stored in RAM so we need to have somewhere in nonvolatile to store these things. We have a file system on the device that we can create files with different device configurations, algorithm, settings, Wi-Fi credentials, that sort of stuff. CHARLES: That file system, is that anything that we would even be familiar with like ZFS or is it just a custom file system that you've written or that you found on GitHub. JOHN: No, fortunately this is just a standard FAT file system. We do have some creature comforts there but that's not necessarily the norm. CHARLES: You heard it here. Is that FAT16? JOHN: No, it's FAT32. CHARLES: FAT32, described as creature comfort. JOHN: Yeah, we have a different perspective of creature comfort. CHARLES: There's a couple of things because immediately, what this brings to mind is for people who are familiar with Ruby on Rails, they have this concept of migrations, where you're migrating the schema of your database and as you have to transform the data from one format to the other, you're running these migrations. One of the things that's nice about that is if, let's say I have some system that is at Version 1, but let's say, I have one of the devices that hasn't taken an update, it starts at Version 1 and it needs to go to like Version 100. But you could have 10 format changes in between there. Is there a way to handle that case where you're basically incrementally applying a bunch of transforms? JOHN: Yes. That's another great point. We take this on a case-by-case basis. Fortunately, being a small relatively simple system, there's not a whole lot of state data to keep track of. But to handle that situation, we've written are own OTA server-side software that manages the devices sending updates -- CHARLES: Acronym alert, OTA? JOHN: I'm sorry, yeah. Another acronym, OTA -- over the air updates. That's our slang for remotely sending firmware updates. CHARLES: Sorry to interrupt. It's just we have to unpack acronyms. JOHN: No, I'm sorry. I use a lot of jargons here. CHARLES: You know what? The thing is, so do I and I just never even notice it. JOHN: To handle that scenario, the way we handle it, our cloud knows what devices are out there and what firmware updates we've sent out to it. Furthermore, when the device checks in with the cloud and ask, "Do I have an update available?" It also tells the cloud, "By the way, I'm running Version 1.0." The cloud knows, if it's on Version 1.0, there's going to be some incremental changes that need to be made before we get to that last update and we can apply those changes incrementally. CHARLES: I see. I feel like we've touched on so many of these concepts that are universal to development but only projected into the hardware space. We've talked about dynamic allocation of memory and data migrations and it sounds like what you're describing in a way with OTAs is continuous delivery, where you have some way of automatically pushing out an update and all the stuff that's involved in that. It's just really cool to hear to view through such a vastly different lens than what we're used to. ELRICK: We've been talking a lot about communication between devices and back to the cloud in things of that nature. Does that play into the conversation around decentralization of IoT infrastructure and what does decentralization of IoT even mean? JOHN: Decentralization as a new methodology or ideology that a lot of people are adopting, I shouldn't say new. It's been around forever but the idea is from a high level, looking at the internet, most of the internet is access through some central, server is hosted on you name it -- XYZ cloud hosting provider. The way you do your URL DNS resolution that goes through centralized DNS servers that say, "You want to look at Netflix?" Netflix is stored over here on this AWS server farm. Decentralization, the idea is we don't necessarily need to talk to this DNS server and talk to AWS just to get content from specific providers. If you look at IoT for example, a lot of times in our case, we want to tap three times on the table and then later on, it will do the cloud, send the message and then turn on your Philips Hue light bulb in the living room. It would be great if the message could just go directly from Knocki to the Philips Hue light bulb, rather than going to our cloud, on some centralized hosting provider, then to Philip Hue's cloud, on their provider then out to the Philips Hue light bulb. Those are some of the really popular technologies that's a lot of people are talking about that really take advantage of the concept of decentralization. But it does -- CHARLES: Let me understand because why these would be necessary. When I get why it's compelling, if I want to have my Knocki talking directly to my Philips Hue light bulb without getting your servers involved, without getting Hue's servers involved, it seems like it's going to be a lot faster and just a lot more robust. There's just less links in the chain but it presents its own problems, like on both ends of the conversation between the Knocki and the Philips Hue, how do they agree that this is sanctioned by a user? That's just leaps out. That's a hard problem to solve. ELRICK: That you use some sort of like public-private key type of encryption to say, "It's me. Am I allowed to do this?" CHARLES: How do you decentralize that? JOHN: Well, I'd like to preface this by saying I'm not an expert on that particular subject but the goal is, if you're familiar with the bit torrent protocol and how it keeps track of a lot of different peers on a network using distributed hash tables, the idea is if you know at least one other person on the network, that person can say, "There's some other people that you may be interested in talking to, that may actually want your message. I'm just a bystander on the network and I don't really need your message but this guy is interested in it." In our application, that would be our server. We have to ask our server, who's out there that wants to hear what I have to say. The server is going to say, "Knocki 123, this Phillips Hue is over here at this address, this unique resource identifier, he's going to be very interested when you have two taps or three taps on the desk so just go ahead and talk directly to him. You don't need to talk to me." There's a lot more of that goes into that about making sure that the network can heal itself if somebody goes offline. But as I said I'm not really an expert in that subject. CHARLES: Right, but it really is compelling. Would you then, maybe have some device that was just kind of your coordinator in your home or multiple devices that would act as these bit torrent trackers? JOHN: Yeah, I think -- CHARLES: Or would the devices themselves actually be able to do that, like the Knocki could actually participate in the conversation about what other devices there were in the home. JOHN: Exactly, yeah. I think in a true peer-to-peer network, any peer can talk to another peer and eventually learn where the other node that they want to talk to is. You don't have to talk to any one particular person but you can ask anybody and they can tell you how to talk to the person you're looking for. The really big advantage to decentralization in my opinion is security. A lot of times if everything is controlled through one central point, that's one central point of failure. If someone DDOS's your cloud service, then now your entire network of devices is offline, just because one location got attacked. If it's a decentralized network, there's no one central point of failure and it's very, very difficult for someone to attack your network. CHARLES: Right, that's true but the tradeoff then is complexity that your decentralize network has to agree, somehow come to some consensus. It's very easy to generate with consensus when you have one process or one point that's driving everything. JOHN: Exactly. Another big tradeoff is ownership of the data and enterprise today are really big revenue your point for a company is being able to have ownership of data and extract meaningful insights. But if your device doesn't talk to your central server every time I want to do something, how does your server know everything that your device is doing and you lose a lot of that data. There's a tradeoff there in how you're going to get the data you need to run your business but also let your device run autonomously on decentralized network. ELRICK: Do you think that this is going to be helpful or harmful to IoT? What's your views on decentralization? JOHN: I think it could be very powerful. Right now, I'm not aware of any products that are really using a decentralized architecture for IoT and the main reason for that is companies and developers are a little slow to adopt it because they want to have that ownership of every data packet that goes to the network. They own it. They can see it. But I think in the future, people will start to realize that they can still get the data that they need to run this business. They can still have visibility and control over the network the way they need to run their business without controlling every single packet. When that happens, I think it's going to be a revolution for the internet as a whole but it's really going to revolutionize IoT and devices will get lower power. They'll get faster and they'll get more secure. CHARLES: When you say being able to get the data that they need, is it just being able to asynchronously spool off the data later? I guess I'm trying to understand how they get the data if it's never talking to some central servers? Or is it just you will get the data at the time you want it or there will be some delay? I assume you can also have your server being part of... I don't know. I'm just curious how you see that playing out. JOHN: I think, every developer is going to have to tackle that on a case-by-case scenario but take for example a big brand smart thermostat company. They have a device that's going to control your AC heating and air and the house and it also collects a lot of the data from when you're home and when you're using it to be smart and adjust the temperature at certain times of day even when you're not home. Again, I don't work for any company that does that and I don't know how they're doing their devices under the hood but traditionally, they tap to a centralized server and they send a lot of this information whenever it's happening, always to the server. Every time the user adjust the temperature, it sends an update to the server and says, "The user just updated." In a decentralized network, these devices can just talk to themselves and say maybe periodically or every day and it'll just send one update and say, "The user adjusted it." You can still talk to a central server but it doesn't have to rely on the central server. CHARLES: Right. It's just what we call, an out of band process. JOHN: Exactly, not mission critical. CHARLES: Okay, I got it. Talking about the decentralization and interacting with other devices, how do you manage the ecosystem right now with Knocki? It's a general purpose interface to rise. It serves really the role of a keyboard or a mouse or some way of controlling other devices and other systems. I assume that in order to do that, you have to understand the capabilities of those systems or maybe you don't. How do you integrate these two devices? Let's go with the thermostat and the Knocki or maybe one that you're more familiar with that you've done. Do you all have to write the integration? Can a third party write the integration? Or is there some way to automatically discover and map the existing inputs of the device. I feel like we've got all these new devices are coming out day to day then and now, there's more and more permutations in which to confine these devices into a coherent system and I'm just curious to hear about that integration story from your perspective. JOHN: Certainly. If we want to configure our Knocki to tap three times and turn on our Philips Hue light bulbs -- I keep using Philips Hue just because that's what I've been actively working on lately. We currently rewrite the integrations in our own backend so the user pulls up the mobile app and says, "Knocki on my desk, every time I tap three times, listen to this Philips Hue," and then we have an integration where in the mobile app, they can essentially set a lot of the parameters that a Philips Hue light would use based on API that Philips Hue would provide us. That's the way most integrations are going to happen with third party products. They expose an API and we can write a little module and the user can configure that API. CHARLES: I see and as far as making affordances for third party people, if they want to change the behavior or add like intelligence, obviously they can configure it from the app but if I want to say add behaviors or something like that. JOHN: When you say add behaviors, you mean add new -- CHARLES: I mean like, rather than turning the lights on and off, say I want to strobe the lights or flash the lights, maybe I'm someone who's running a theater or something and during intermission, I want to knock three times to flash the overhead lights. I don't know if that's something that your integration with Hue could do but if I want to be able to add that. JOHN: Okay, I see your question. We try to enable as much of the products functionality as possible through our own integration on our mobile app but say, you're a hacker and you've come up with your own smart light that turns on any sort of party mode and flashes different colors whenever you want and your Philips Hue or any other smart light just can't quite do what you wanted to do. In the future, our goal is to have an open API that people can access and they can hopefully control their own homemade IoT devices. CHARLES: Now, what about for existing ones. You can definitely flash the lights with the Philip Hue but you're going have to have some custom software to do it, right? Do you see what I mean? You have to send a series of messages to it in sequence. JOHN: In that scenario, we currently don't support that and don't have a plan to support that. In our research, that's a really small use case of people that would be interested in that. Also, it's difficult now if we wanted to do some sort repeated command, you knock three times and then every 30 seconds, it's going to send a command in your light bulbs. We have to be careful about having processes that run away and you have a bunch of CPU power forever in the cloud. We may include features like that in the future. I think the most likely path for that sort of stuff is we'll have an open API that people can direct Knocki's inputs to their own server and then their own server can flash their Philips Hue lights as much as they want. ELRICK: Is there any standardization between the communication and what these API supposed to look, like the communication between devices? anyone can have an API, expecting one thing and someone that's writing software to communicate with that, wouldn't have to go look it up. Do you know of any standardization? JOHN: Yes. I know there have been a couple of companies out there trying to put a standard on the market and I think a standard would be a great idea. ELRICK: Yeah, I think so too. JOHN: It would be wonderful if we could just write generic control structures or information flow structures and anybody can hook their stuff up to it. As far as I know, I haven't seen any that really fit the bill. CHARLES: It feel like there's something that programming systems like software developers have been chasing for a long time is to have some distributed set of peers that they can look each other up. You can discover the capabilities of a thing without ever having to even know about in the first place. But I haven't really known that worked really well and hit that sweet spot. I'm thinking of DCOM and Java. There's like Java distributed beans or something like that. You have this idea of these objects in the cloud, which seems kind of analogous to what we're talking about now, except we're talking about actual devices, rather the software devices but who knows. Maybe it'll pan out where we'll have some standard for discovery and integration. JOHN: It's interesting that there hasn't been one already. You look at IoT and it's really ripe for standardization because a lot of the communication between devices takes the same format. You're generally just passing a small message saying, on or off or, "I read this temperature at 75 degrees. Who knows, maybe someone will solve it. CHARLES: Yeah, maybe so. Maybe the folks at Kasita. They're active integrators. They were on the podcast two episodes ago and one of their challenges was getting all these 30 things to talk together well. Maybe we can follow up with them and if they could have a standard, what they would like it to look like? JOHN: If they get on that, I would love to hear what they were working on. CHARLES: I think, maybe they mostly, have a wish list. It is like, "I wish it did this. I wish it did this. I wish it did this." ELRICK: Maybe we need to have like a 10-way podcast. It's like IoT companies and we can hash it out like the TC39 of IoT on the Frontside Podcast. CHARLES: Right, and then everybody punches each other. All right, well thank you so much, John for coming and talking with us. It's always fascinating. You can find Knocki at @Knocki on Twitter and Knocki.com. It's a great product and like I said, always a fascinating conversation so thank you so much for coming on the show. JOHN: Yeah, thank you very much for having me. It was a great conversation. CHARLES: With that, we'll say goodbye. Thank you, Elrick. ELRICK: Thank you. CHARLES: We are, as always, the Frontside at @TheFrontside on Twitter, Frontside.io on the web or just drop us a line over email, Contact@Frontside.io. Thanks everybody.

Jason Jaynes: @jasoncjaynes Jeff Wilson: @ProfDumpster Show Notes: 00:53 - “Professor Dumpster” and Founding Kasita 05:33 - The Startup Industry 07:45 - Building the Kasita Team and Creating the Design 12:25 - Integrating Devices 16:33 - Challenges of Building These Ecosystems 24:36 - Controlling the Ecosystem: Will there be third-party developers and applications? 30:16 - Device Cohesion and User Experience 33:23 - Privacy Resources: Data for the People: How to Make Our Post-Privacy Economy Work for You by Andreas Weigend Kasita is hiring! Transcript: CHARLES: Hello, everybody and welcome to The Frontside Podcast, Episode 78. My name is Charles Lowell, a developer here at The Frontside and your podcast host-in-training. With me today are Jeff and Jason from Kasita. Now, Kasita is one of the most exciting products that I think we've gotten to work on here at Frontside in the last five years. We're going to be just talking about it because, I think it touches on a lot of the aspects of what makes software development and startups and just the emerging economy exciting. I'm really thankful that we get to have you all on the podcast. Welcome Jeff and welcome Jason. JEFF: Thanks for having us. JASON: Excited to be here. Thanks, Charles. CHARLES: Now Jeff, you are the founder of Kasita, the CEO and I believe your official title over there is 'Professor Dumpster.' Maybe you could actually unpack for us a little bit of what does that title mean? How did Kasita come about and what is it today? JEFF: A couple of years ago, I did a radical, social experiment around housing. I went and sold everything I own for a dollar an item out of a 3000-square foot house and moved into a 33-square foot used trash dumpster for a year. The idea of that project was to live in 1% the size of an average American home and try to use 1% the energy and water of the average American home. The project took a little bit of a twist, you might say and about part way through it when the dumpster started getting tricked out, I started thinking about the whole nature of housing and how we need to do something different and how that grand future probably would not be a gated community of dumpsters. CHARLES: Now, I assume you cleaned out the dumpster before you actually went to live in it. JEFF: Yeah, it was a fixer-upper. We give it a bit of a scrub and did some testing to make sure there wasn't anything nasty left in there. That went for about a year and a couple of months after that, I actually first set down with Jason because he was the only person that I knew in the entire startup scene, in the entire world. He said, "Wilson, you had some crazy ass ideas like this dumpster thing you told me about. This one might actually work, this Kasita thing." Here we are today, we're working together. CHARLES: Wow. This was something you just did on a lark. You didn't have the idea of starting this business but it was actually through the process of actually living in this dumpster for a year that the idea emerged or was there a master plan going in? JEFF: I don't know, Jason do you remember any kind of master plan when I first told you about the dumpster? JASON: No. When we first met to talk about the dumpster, it was an early morning, I believe in 2010 or 2011 and you're incubating the idea. At that point in time, there was nothing on your mind or you aren't looking towards the future of housing at all. You were just trying to figure out how you were going to move into a dumpster and people thought you would be crazy. Of course, I've validate it and I thought people would think you would be crazy. CHARLES: That is a pretty radical idea, the future of housing being 1% of what it is now. How do you see that playing out? How is that possible? How do you shift people's mindset away from that? JEFF: One of the bigger things we're trying to do with Kasita, there needs to be a massive shift in the wider way that we live in our homes. As everything else is moving towards on demand and as a service and as everything's being sort of productized, those are some of the core ideas behind Kasita. We think about Kasita a lot more like an iPhone or a Tesla than we would think about it as a single family home or an apartment block or even a micro-unit. That's why Jason and I are standing together here today is I represent a lot of ways, a kind of vision and origin story of Kasita but in a lot of ways, Jason represents the future of the software and integrated IoT that's going into these things. CHARLES: There is definitely a lot going into these things. I remember when Jason first started telling me about it because it is like an iPhone or a Tesla but, I think especially the Tesla is a great analogy because you have not just like a normal software or even really a hardware project, you've got architectural concerns. You've got manufacturing concerns. You've got, I assumed geopolitical concerns in terms of the politics around zoning and housing and real estate, all rolled up into a big startup. When I think startup, I think let's get a web application up and running and we're providing some service. This is cross-cutting at least five industries, it feels like if not more. I'm curious, what's been the experience in terms of wrangling that aspect because I think it is very unique in a startup today but it got me wondering is this going to be the normal in five years? JEFF: We've seen a movement recently in the venture community. Even a few years ago when we first started raising money was highly-regulated industries are hard, hardware is hard, "Thank you very much. We're going to go looking for our next two Stanford computer science dropouts to shove into a wee work and not have to deal with all of this kind of stuff." I think I've seen a shift to where people from the individual level up to the folks funding these things, see the massive opportunity in highly-regulated complex problems like housing and you're right. Jason and I are looking out over our shop floor here where we've got guys out there that are plumbers or traditional electricians all the way upstairs here to folks that have been mayor pro tem of large cities with PhDs. Bridging all of those individuals into a startup culture and then looking at the complexity of the landscape from a regulatory standpoint, autonomous cars are a breeze relative to the kind of complexity we're dealing with. CHARLES: Did you know this complexity walking in or was it a classic overoptimism? JEFF: No, it wasn't classic overoptimism. I'm always asked, "Are you a designer? Are you an architect? Are you a real estate developer? Are you a technology guy?" and I think if I would have been any of those besides a guy living in a dumpster, I wouldn't ever been crazy enough to try this. It's one of our core precepts as well. Jason had never worked with IoT stuff before. Our head of manufacturing used to build LEDs for Philips. Our quality guy inspected Cadillacs. Our manufacturing engineer built Boeing jets. The ideas that we're not pulling a lot of people from these traditional industries, we're pulling smart people that are passionate about our mission and to solve this, what is really a Rubik's Cube of a problem. JASON: Yeah, I think the other thing to add to that that Jeff is not getting himself enough credit is that from very early on, Jeff always looked at Kasita as a product that was going to incorporate multiple disciplines. He was very careful in how he orchestrate it and built the team to make sure that he was bringing the right expertise and the right areas together and then forcing those different disciplines to figure out how to meld and work together to build the Kasita. But the Kasita was from the beginning just about building a micro-urban home. It was about building a product of which part of that was a home, where people live obviously, but there's a whole lot more to it that we're working towards. I think even go back and Jeff, it might be relevant for you to talk a little bit about the approach that you took to just create an initial design for Kasita, which I think is revolutionary in itself. JEFF: A big part of our DNA was product from conception. When I was living in the dumpster, I recruited a couple of the top architects in the country really to help me turn that dumpster into a home. The way you're trained in architecture school, I think a lot of folks come in there with Buckminster Fuller kind of dreams and you're told pretty quick that you better bring things up to code and you better make things that sell or you're not going to eat when you get out of here. The idea was that we would start off with a product designer and not design a home. The kind of struggles in the dumpster taught me that we needed to go at a different approach so I went and recruited an industrial designer. One of the requirements for that person that he or she had never designed a home. This person had lived under a staircase and never designed a home so I said, "You're perfect." CHARLES: I like that and I'm curious, Jason from your perspective, what was it like to have gone through this? It sounds like what you're doing is asking people to bring their expertise but not their set of expectations like the industrial designer. What was it like for you coming primarily from the software development world to step into this pan-technological realm and what was that experience like and what were the things that stretched you and you found surprising? JASON: I think early on, I realized that it was going to be a bit more challenging maybe than I thought. Really, what it required was me to think outside of my discipline. Obviously, not only from the perspective of what we were doing on the IoT frontend, how we were melding software and hardware together but then going all the way over to the physical building structure and thinking about on a weekly, daily, hourly basis on how we are interacting with the other disciplines. An early example was, and this is one that I remember that's quite funny is one area that we wanted to make sure that we had covered in our research and understanding from IoT perspective was smart locks and how we were going to provide a smart locks for the data. We went out and did a lot of investigation, brought a number of leading smart lock solutions into the lab and tested them and narrow our list down. Then I recall vividly walking over to the architects to excitedly tell them we had selected our smart lock that we were going to use. They very quickly inform me that that lock wouldn't work because we needed a mortise lock and not a standard door lock. I realized that you can't work in a vacuum and just solve your problems. You have to be working together to make sure the solutions and the products you're selecting at work in accord with the overall design. That's continued to manifest itself. Every day, I'm down on the manufacturing floor, working directly with the electricians and others to make sure that our equipment is placed properly, where are we going to place our equipment, how are we routing around plumbing and pipes and other things that exist there and how are we locating things properly. It's an ongoing experience, which has definitely taken me out of my traditional software role but it's done so in a very exciting way and I've enjoyed it. It's just realizing that you have to actively be communicating across the organization with all groups and really, you can't take anything for granted. CHARLES: The number of different disciplines and technologies is really staggering, even if you limit it to just considering the set of devices that you're integrating. I was actually hoping we could talk a little bit about that. Now inside each Kasita, at least the ones that you're building right now, how many different devices do you have? How do you take all these different devices and turn them into a product or integrate them into something that itself is one product? JASON: If you were just to look at the technology bill of materials, what the products are that we're incorporating into our current Kasita design, there is around 50 different products and product parts that we're bringing together to build out the technology solution. If you narrow that down to what the end user is actually seeing and looking at, there are about seven noticeable products that the end user would see or they would recognize everything from a Sonos connecting amplifier to an Amazon Dot to a Nest Thermostat. Obviously, getting to that list of bill of materials and deciding on that 'subassembly of technology pieces,' took us quite some time in a number of iterations and a lot of outside engagement and talking to experts and trying to decide what were the best devices to bring in. But the other side of the equation was something that we kind of decided very early on in the process and kind of thinking the world of first principles was that, we wanted to make sure that Kasita was the primary interface to the user. We didn't want somebody else sitting between us and the end user. We wanted to be able to work with other products but we still felt at the end of the day that the end user, when they were living inside of a Kasita, when they were controlling the Kasita, when they were changing the state of the Kasita, they needed to go through our interface. With that as an initial first principle, you can begin to imagine that all the other parts of the system architecture and the way that we design things, the way that we select products and built things, it begin to derive themselves. Everything from that, immediately we needed an app and lo and behold. We were able, fortunately to work with you guys, the Frontside, to help us get our initial app concept up and going. It went from there and I can talk more about it. CHARLES: I think I really like that as a first principle. I really just want to inject a vigorous sense of agreement because I think it's so important, especially when this is the place where you're living. You want to imbue that inhabitant with a sense of ownership and control. I don't know if you would be able to do that if there were a bunch of different touch points and it didn't feel integrated under one product. In other words, this is my home, this is my Kasita. Is that the idea behind making sure that there was really only one interface? JEFF: We prefer to say 'Mi Kasita.' CHARLES: I love it. JASON: Absolutely, that's the idea. I think from a consumer perspective, if you've ever personally gone out and ventured through the halls of Home Depot or Best Buy and purchased some smart products off the shelf and brought them into your house and try to get them up and running, you very quickly learn that. It's not only challenging to get these devices connected in a way that you can control them but there's also this notion of there's an app for that. Every physical device you ended up putting in your how, has its own app for control and that becomes very overwhelming in a very short amount of time for the user. We did not want that to be the case with the Kasita. We wanted them to walk in the door from day one and immediately feel at home and feel like they have complete control of the Kasita, in much the same way when you go purchase an iPhone or you purchase a new Garmin watch or you purchase a new Android device, you're up and running with that ecosystem and you're interacting with that interface. We wanted people to be interacting with the Kasita interface to control their home because that's part of the product. CHARLES: I like that. It must present some unique challenges because I think you said it best. Every single device that you have comes with its own ecosystem and that ecosystem has its own APIs, its own web interfaces, its own applications and though there are walls around those ecosystems, what are some of the challenges you encounter in trying to punch holes through those walls so that you can hand information and control from one ecosystem to the other while providing a seamless experience to the user? JEFF: When you're talking about that, Jason one of the things that is often left out of this equation is at this specific point in space-time, it's very difficult to do that. But then to have any sort of semblance of planning for the future and future-proofing the system as developers usually call it, one of the reasons why you don't see a lot of Nest thermostats in multifamily development is because a developer knows that they're not going to ever have to replace a normal light switch. If it's a Lutron switch or if it is a Nest thermostat at some point, it's going to have to be replaced. Not only the physical replacement of the stuff but from a software side, making sure that we can continue to communicate with these devices in the future, I think is a big problem to solve. JASON: That's absolutely right. I think very early on, we recognize and realize that we were going to have to build software and a component that acted, if you will as a gateway for sitting between the end user and the end devices and facilitated the control of the end devices. Obviously, being able to accomplish that, one of the challenges is and I think, Charles you've seen this in your world because I know you've got experience with IoT is this whole proliferation of standards and protocols like if we're going to talk to the lightbulb or we're talking via Z-Wave or ZigBee, or do we have to go through a Philips Hue hub because that's the only way to actually communicate with it. Is there a separate way via Thread or Bluetooth you communicate with this device? In a very quick fashion, you get to this point where you can imagine that you've got a physical hardware controller that has four different radios in talking to four different device types. One for talking to Z-Wave, one for talking to ZigBee and it becomes overwhelming. We did a lot of research across the protocols that were available, mapping them across the devices. Early on, we were excited about the potential of Z-Wave but more recently, where we've shifted our attention quite honestly is looking for devices and device manufacturers who see the opportunity and Wi-Fi enabling their hardware devices and then providing either direct control of those devices in an IP-centric way over a local area network or even through the cloud. What that affords us back to Jeff's future-proofing concept is if you have Wi-Fi up and running and the device can get on the Wi-Fi network and there's a way to communicate with it, then it makes it a lot easier for us to sit between the user and that device and send commands and control that device. The other side of that, which I think continues to be a challenge and will be a challenged for the foreseeable future is a lot of the device manufacturers to the point that you brought up are still forcing you to go through the cloud to communicate with their devices. They don't allow for a local area network communication directly with the device and there's good reasons for doing that. But what that means is if you lose internet connectivity, you no longer have control of that device. CHARLES: Obviously, you've got probably pretty strict criteria about what it takes for a device to be integrated with Kasita. Is that a nonstarter right there? JASON: It's actually not. A nonstarter with be the device communicates via protocol that we can't interface with or the device works over a Wi-Fi network but has no API for controlling cloud or local. The third piece of that equation and fundamentally is the final nonstarter and really probably should be the first one and it's one that we take into consideration every time is that there should be a physical override for the user if internet connectivity is lost. What I mean by that is if we select a smart switch and the smart switch goes offline and there's no more connectivity, the user has still be able to walk to the wall and press the power button and the light should come on. There always has to be an ability for the user to fall back to the same old fashioned physical control in the absence of Internet connectivity or local area network connectivity. But the primary things are ability to fall back to physical control, ability to communicate over Wi-Fi or standard IP-based protocol, then the third one would be some form of API access, either remotely via the cloud or locally via the local area network. CHARLES: Wow, that's actually a great list. It's got me wondering, obviously you've encountered devices that have fallen on both sides of that divide. Do you feel like that's just a blip and we're going to be trending more towards devices that are happily and easily integrated or are we still seeing some moving and jostling as people maybe try and corner little parts of the market and make their device deliberately make it not easy so that you'll try and force people into that ecosystem? JASON: The latter, however we have two guerillas in the market right now that I think are helping drive the other direction in the way of Amazon and Google with Google Home and Amazon Echo. What they're doing is they're saying, "If we sit in the center and one of the interfaces for voice control for the user to control their home, then we're only going to work with devices that we can communicate with and that we can control through the cloud," and quite frankly, what that does is it puts the burden back on the device manufacturer. You could actually say three if you threw Apple in there. I don't want to leave Apple out with HomeKit. But my point is that the device manufacturer now has to find a way that the end device can either communicate via standard TCP/IP network-based connectivity that we all know and love from a developer community perspective or they have to insert a hub into the equation that can handle that form of communication and then communicate over its own proprietary wireless connection, which is in the case of Philips Hue, it's exactly what they do. JEFF: I would draw analogies here to some people get really tired of this, particularly the real estate people of me talking about the iPhone but that kind of leap into and integrated piece of hardware and software. There were certain things happening in 2007 that didn't make the iPhone or something like it, something that might happen but something that had to happen. This kind of cold death to the universe that we could see with all of these walled-off ecosystems, go in their directions and iterating into a space to a nobody owns anything and nothing talks, I think Kasita is a solution to that to where we're looking like combine all this stuff under one roof and build a single user experience, much like not having to pull your Palm Pilot out of one pocket, you're Rio MP3 player out of another and you're your Razor or whatever it was out of the other like integrating into a single experience, rather than a sort of convenience, which is what a lot of the IoT spaces right now in these walled-off ecosystems. CHARLES: That actually makes a lot of sense and clarifies it in my mind quite a bit. It clarifies one thing but then, immediately raises new questions. When the iPhone first came out, you had a set of basic integrations between your MP3 player and your web browsing and your calling and calendaring, so and so forth. Then, I don't know what was it like, a year and a half later, they actually came out with an SDK so that you could actually develop apps -- third-party developers could actually develop. Sell and distribute in apps -- to the iPhone. We're all really happy with the way that worked out. I guess my question is does this analogy carry forward then also for Kasita? Is there a future where you have third-party developers who are actually selling integrations or apps that would run on this integrated IoT product that is Kasita or am I stretching the analogy too far? JASON: I think the analogy is good with the exception that we're not looking to control the entire IoT ecosystem in a way that Apple maybe had look to control the mobile phone ecosystem with providing all of that in one box and the iPhone. We want to work with numerous hardware providers and even from that perspective, numerous folks that want to provide interfaces into our system. As we develop an architected Kasita technology system, we've taken an API-first approach and that's allowed us to build our user application layer right on top of that API but in the future, we see the opportunity to work with third-party developers to extend that, up on that and build their own interfaces to the end user. Then on the other side of the equation, if you think about what's actually controlling the devices, we're architecting that system in a way that a hardware manufacturer could take an SDK and add Kasita support for their product directly in and make it plug and play when it gets to the Kasita. We definitely see the opportunity, Charles to reach out and allow everybody to be part of this. We consider it quite frankly, a necessary thing. But we don't also want to pretend that we would look to control the whole ecosystem because we just don't have that level of scale, if you will. JEFF: And you know -- CHARLES: Not yet. JEFF: Yeah, and we try to keep our ego in the dumpster, so to speak as well. CHARLES: What would a third-party app even look like in the context of Kasita? Have you thought of like what are some things that you might be able to do? JEFF: If you don't want to call it directly an app, I think the first stage -- Jason and I haven't talked about this -- maybe more like an Alexa Skill to where you can have the Kasita do certain sets of tasks around a particular experience, which we're already building into the system the idea of moods but I don't know in terms of apps. JASON: Yeah, it's actually a really good idea. Even though we haven't talked about it, it always scares me a little bit when my boss is coming up with ideas on the fly that we have to implement but -- JEFF: But actually we will have our first -- we're going to call it a skill app, a Kasita skill app. We'll be releasing that say, October 1st. CHARLES: You heard it here first, folks. JASON: To take Jeff's idea a little further, I think that is an interesting concept when you think about the Kasita as being an end product and you provide interfaces whether it's the ability for people to write skills that tie into the Amazon Echo or an IFTTT-type capability. The Kasita, as a whole can be controlled -- all the lighting, the sound, all the different temperature, etcetera -- so now you're asking end users to write skills, to control the entire state of the building or of the home and not just doing it on a one-off basis writing skill to turn this light on and off or set the thermostat to this level. You basically box all of that together and make it much easier for people to get from Point A to Point B through our system. JEFF: Could you say that we're turning the entire Kasita into a board for people to play with, like treat the Kasita as your breadboard? JASON: I think there is some opportunity for that to the degree that will allow the user to have that much flexibility on the hardware side. I think it is still up for question but I think there's a lot of opportunity there, Charles and not only inside of the Kasita but then you can begin to see other applications as Kasita begin to multiply and people use them from many purposes. Let's take a sample of somebody owns 10 Kasitas and they use them as Airbnb properties and they allow users that live in Kasitas to come in for a short period of time into their Kasita and bring their Kasita profile with them. Immediately, they can make the Airbnb Kasita feel exactly like their Kasita feels when they're at home. Those are some interesting opportunities and ways that we see this technology potentially evolving. CHARLES: So it will have the same moods, the same behaviors. Any customizations or third-party extensions would also be in effect provided they were software-based? JASON: Yep. CHARLES: That would actually be quite amazing. I guess the other question I have in terms of hackability of Kasita is we're very interested in the IoT space and very interested in these products and we have some side projects here at Frontside also like I do a bunch of hobby stuff at home, where I try to integrate a bunch of these things. But one of the things that I really like about what you all are doing is that it's very much 'omakase' in the sense of there's an option of 10 smart locks, there's an option of this thermostat, there's an option of a million different devices but what we've done or what you've done is selected ones that we know are going to work well together. We've built the software, the control systems, both computer control systems and human control systems to get them to work together as a cohesive product. I would love to do is say, "I would just like to buy that product for my house," even though my lame tinkerings with smart switches, smart locks and audio controls and lighting, which are fun and gratifying the first few times but they don't really play nice together, give you that super sweet feeling. JEFF: This goes to the overall philosophy of Kasita. We want a turnkey, one-click housing solution. Not only for finding you a place to rent so that you're not fishing around on Craigslist for roommate or having to pay some outrageous fee in New York. You don't have to go mattress shopping. At some point, you should just have to show up with your iPhone and your toothbrush. When you start thinking about the technology inside, it's almost like folks don't really care what kind of Foxconn chip is in their iPhone or even if it was Foxconn that put it there, they just want it to work and they want it to be seamless and turnkey. It sets up a whole philosophy around, not only our smart kid in the Kasitas but it shouldn't even be a smart kid anymore. At some point, it should just be an experience so ultimately, what sort of UX inside of the Kasita are all of these things bringing you. I shouldn't have to really look at a blue glowing dot that lights up every time I walk by it to be at a comfortable temperature in my house. I shouldn't need a black tube over on my desktop that I yell commands at. I just talk or it should anticipate those actions. That's a future that I look forward to in Kasita to where we move away from having to tinker with devices and even knowing what those devices are to a true-like depth of experience. CHARLES: I like that a lot. Now, one thing that we haven't covered. We touched on it a little bit at the very beginning of the show when we talked about people feeling in control and feeling like they're truly the owner of the space is the issue of privacy. Obviously, there's a lot of a user's behavior that's going to be passing through software channels as their intentions move through the devices in the Kasita. Of course, all of these devices, they have their own ecosystems, their own vendors so how do you ensure that people's data is going to be protected, especially as it moves through potentially a bunch of different public clouds. JEFF: Yes, we gave a lot of thoughts to this. Actually, Jason put me on to this book called 'Data for the People' by Andreas Weigend. We took some inspiration on that, from that and set out on what we call it the four cornerstones of this future of the connected home. Those are agency, transparency, security and then the actual benefit that you get from this home. I gave a talk at South by called, 'The final frontier of AI is in your living room.' If that isn't black mirror, creepy enough to attract enough people, I don't know what is. In that talk, I won't take them out of order. First, we need to make sure that we're focused on transparency. Do people know what's actually being collected on them? I've been toting around my iPhone for 10 years. I'm pretty sure they know everywhere that I have been since then. I'm not really all that sure. Second, agency. Can I actually do something about it? Are we allowing people the ability to switch off, switch on, control where that data goes? Then third, security. Are we providing another level of security above what you would get out of the box? I'll let Jason talk about that in a minute. Then, the last is benefit. Am I getting ads? Am I getting a slightly better news feed focused on ads or am I getting my rent subsidized? Am I getting a better user experience, better sleep within the connected home? Those are the ways that we think about that in a bigger level. CHARLES: Is the idea that there's no benefit than it's exploitative? You want to make sure that there's benefit? JASON: Yeah, I think that onus is if you taking individual data and using it, then the onus is on you as a data collector to try to provide benefit back to the end user. If you can't do that, then I think the question should be why are you collecting the data in the first place? our goal is really looking at it from the perspective of if we know when users are turning lights on and off and what they're setting the temperature in their house to and when they're going to sleep at night, when they're waking up because we know when they turn everything off and turn it back on -- JEFF: Or where this things on the floor are from the vacuum robot. JASON: Yeah, exactly. If we have insight into that information, how are we taking that information and combining it in a valuable way that benefits the end user? I think that's the first question that we have to ask when we start looking at the data that we're collecting. But at the same time as Jeff said, that data collection really has to be based on this notion of agency, transparency and privacy or security. An agency is simply I have control over whether my data is collected. Transparency, from the perspective of I understand how my data is being used and where it's being sent and then of course, security, I know that my data is being securely transmitted and stored. When you think about security, we spend a lot of time thinking about not only the data at rest -- once it's been collected is it properly being stored and encrypted and protected -- but then how is that data being transmitted and are we putting the proper fail safes in place to make sure that somebody else can easily gain access and take control of my home and of the things that are important to me by finding back doors into the system and ways to breach them? Those are the cornerstones that we think about and we put first and foremost in our mind as we build out our architecture, build out our system and as we begin to take that data and to turn it back in useful and interesting ways for the end user. CHARLES: I think that's really important. I think it's a great comfort to hear that you all have a framework for thinking about this so that it's going to be integrated into every aspect of it. I think it's just so important, especially when it's something as critical as the space in which you're living. It's good to hear that it's not just an afterthought but that it's something that's been integrated from the start. Well, Jeff, Jason thank you guys so much for coming by and talking with us. I really think that Kasita is an exciting product and I think that it was an exciting project, certainly for us to get to work on, even though we were only seeing a very small sliver of it. We still got to perceive the whole enchilada that you guys were working on and see that just what a unique startup that really is, not just you're moving outside of software, integrating a bunch of different devices, integrating that with a unique home that's going to be designed, architected, manufactured and then thinking, then even rolling it up a degree further about how is this going to be integrated into the urban spaces in which we live. I hope that we see more startups that really engaged all those different disciplines. I think that with the technological changes that are happening, that's more and more a possibility. The price on software, the price on materials, the price on these smart devices is all coming down so it really enables people to take on scopes that might have been just completely impossible, even with someone who's overly optimistic. I hope that people look to it as an inspiration and it really was a great project for us to work on. I also understand that if someone does want to jump into this space and get involved, you all are hiring. JEFF: That's right. We are hiring for a broad range of positions. We're expecting to be doing a lot, more hiring soon. You can go to Kasita.com/Work and at the bottom of the page, you can also see that we have an open house here in Austin every Thursday morning from 9:30 to 11:30. The folks can come in and check out the crib. CHARLES: All right. Fantastic. I certainly really enjoyed getting the tour the space, what was that? Back in March? When you revealed the baby units? JEFF: Yeah, it was March at South by. CHARLES: Yeah, it's really something to see. If you are in Austin or you live here, take the time, go see it. It's really cool. With that, I guess we'll wrap it up. Thank you everybody for listening and as always, you can get in touch with us at @Frontside on Twitter or Frontside.io or send us an email at Contact@Frontside.io. Thank you all and see you next week.

Our guest today is writer and adventurer Clara Bensen. You may recognize Clara’s story even if her name doesn’t ring a bell. In 2013, her whirlwind story of romance and travel, which she published on Salon.com, went insanely viral. It’s your typical story of girl meets boy via OkCupid, and then a few weeks later girl and boy hop on a plane to Turkey with no suitcases. She turned her story into a book called No Baggage, which is also being made into a movie. She’s still with her boo, Jeff Wilson, and they work together at Kasita a micro-housing company, and she’s currently working on a novel, which she goes into more detail about on this episode.

Gabri Christa is an inspiring and unique Love Bomber creating and curating works of art in motion through dance and film.  She is essentially a power house of making creative projects happen, those of others and her own.  The intention of these efforts are to contribute to society in a way that helps to transform our understanding of history and humanity.  She believes in collaboration, cross cultural understanding and dialogue.  In our conversation we explore this terrain and hear some of her very unique perspective about the process of making things and how this helps to open up our eyes to something new, but within ourselves, and within our connection to others.Gabri hails from Curacao and came to filmmaking after a successful career as a choreographer and dancer with companies such as Danza Contemporanea de Cuba and the Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance Company.  Awards include the Guggenheim for Choreography, an ABC television award for creative excellence for her short film "High School" and Pangea Day Festival One World's 100 most promising filmmakers distinction.  Her film KASITA won best short at Harlem International Film Festival.  Her documentary about her Yoga teacher Leo Floridas will premiere in the 2016/17 season.  Her new solo dance performances for Living Rooms will start touring in 2017.  Other projects include a new installment in her series Another Building, a dance film exploring Creole Jewish identity in a dwindling community, and an environmental thriller for young audiences.  She joins the faculty of Barnard College Dance Department at Columbia University as Assistant Professor of Professional Practice in the fall of 2017.  Her life long yoga practice fuels her approach to life and art.Connect with Gabri:www.gabrichrista.comwww.anotherbuilding.com