Being Human with Steve Cuss

Cohosts Steve and Lisa Cuss revisit powerful conversations with guests like Jinger Duggar, Strahan Coleman, Ian Cron, and Greg Robbins, diving deeper into themes of spiritual growth, emotional resilience, and inner healing. Exploring the intersections of faith, mental health, and discipleship, Steve and Lisa reflect on how practices like gratitude, vulnerability, and relational awareness help us experience God's presence more fully. Whether you're navigating anxiety, triggers, chronic illness, or something else this episode offers rich insights for anyone seeking wholeness and a deeper sense of home.  Resources mentioned in this episode include: “You're the Dawn” from the album Posters Beholding: Deepening Our Experience in God by Strahan Coleman Thirsting: Quenching Our Soul's Deepest Desire by Strahan Coleman Strahan's music on Spotify  Revelation Simplified: A Commonsense Approach to the Bible's Most Mysterious Book by Greg Robbins Learn more about Greg's work at gregrobbinsrevelationsimplified.com.  Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith from Fear by Jinger Duggar Vuolo People Pleaser: Breaking Free from the Burden of Imaginary Expectations by Jinger Duggar Vuolo Learn more about Ian's work at ianmorgancron.com. The Road Back to You: An Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery by Ian Morgan Cron Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Host Steve Cuss and theologian Greg Robbins unpack the often-misunderstood Book of Revelation. Far from being a roadmap to doom, Revelation offers a powerful message of hope, calling Christians to live with courage, sacrifice, and trust in God's ultimate victory. They tackle Armageddon, explore the nature of true power, and reframe Revelation as a deeply pastoral text for discipleship. If you've ever wrestled with end-times anxiety, this conversation will refresh your view with biblical clarity and encouragement. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Revelation Simplified: A Commonsense Approach To The Bible's Most Mysterious Book Revelation Simplified Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Steve Cuss and Strahan Coleman explore the transformative power of prayer, the role of vulnerability in faith, and the ways suffering can deepen our connection with God. Strahan shares his journey through chronic illness and the spiritual awakening that followed, offering insights into how gratitude and prayer can reshape our experience of God's love. At the center of Steve and Strahan's conversation is the intersection of neuroscience with faith and the reasons why the church must create space for honesty, healing, and hope. This conversation is a powerful reminder that prayer is not just a practice but a pathway to presence amid physical pain. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Beholding: Deepening Our Experience in God by Strahan Coleman Thirsting: Quenching Our Soul's Deepest Desire by Strahan Coleman Strahan's music on Spotify  “Organizing a Prayer Journal” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reality TV alum Jinger Duggar Vuolo joins host Steve Cuss to share her powerful journey from fear-based religion to authentic faith and emotional freedom. She opens up about growing up under Bill Gothard's teachings, breaking free from people-pleasing, and healing from spiritual trauma. Together, Jinger and Steve explore how vulnerability, community, and self-awareness can lead to lasting transformation. This episode offers encouragement for anyone navigating identity, faith, and the pressure to meet others' expectations. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith from Fear by Jinger Duggar Vuolo People Pleaser: Breaking Free from the Burden of Imaginary Expectations  “Teens and Social Media: Key findings from Pew Research Center Surveys” “How Social Media Affects Your Teen's Mental Health: A Parent's Guide” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Author, psychotherapist, and recovering addict Ian Cron joins Steve Cuss for a powerful conversation on addiction, identity, and faith. Ian shares his personal struggles with alcoholism, the complexities of living as a public figure, and the spiritual insights gained through recovery. Steve and Ian explore the nature of addiction as a misguided solution to deeper wounds, the process of deconstructing faith on the way to reconstruction, and the church's unique role in offering forgiveness and healing. This episode offers a raw reflection on the journey toward wholeness and the power of love in relationships. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Ian Cron The Road Back To You by Ian Morgan Cron Chasing Francis by Ian Morgan Cron The Enneagram The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between by Ian Morgan Cron Young Life Alcoholics Anonymous Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We may not expect leadership experts, a Grammy Award-winning music producer, and a former USAID worker to have much in common. But as Steve and Lisa Cuss reflect on the past four episodes of Being Human, they discover a trio of themes arising throughout the conversations.  Tune in as Steve and Lisa discuss words of wisdom from Uli Chi, Nathaniel Moller, Charlie Peacock, and Steve J. Cuss. They ponder the common threads of wondering what we do with fear, embracing curiosity, and exploring the intersection of playfulness and imagination. As they consider these poignant topics, Steve and Lisa offer insights into relational connection with ourselves, one another, and God. Resources mentioned in this episode include: “Walking in Wisdom with Uli Chi” The Wise Leader by Uli Chi T. S. Eliot “USAID's Demise, Fighting Malaria, and Being the Church with Nathaniel Moller” “Down the Rabbit Hole with Charlie Peacock” Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music by Charlie Peacock “Life Beyond Burnout with (Another) Steve Cuss” Liberated Leadership: Unmasking the Authentic Leader Within by Steve J. Cuss Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

First things first: Yes, both the host and guest on this episode are named Steve Cuss. The overlap doesn't stop there, either. Both Steves work in the leadership space, host Steve through Capable Life and guest Steve through The GamePlan Consultancy. The two discuss guest Steve's career in the video game industry, the importance of mentorship, and the intensity of burnout. They talk about cultivating joy among teams, balancing compassion for others with one's own needs, and the hallmarks of servant leadership. Steve and Steve reflect on the predictable patterns and attempted solutions among professionals, the dynamics of trauma healing, and the journey from self-awareness to self-growth. Resources mentioned in this episode include: The GamePlan Consultancy Capable Life The Contrarian's Guide to Leadership by Steven Sample Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Charlie Peacock is a Nashville music producer, jazz and rock-and-roll recording artist, singer-songwriter, and author. As Steve Cuss reflects on his friend Charlie's life, work, and new book Roots & Rhythm, a beautiful theme arises: the wildly relational nature of art. Charlie and Steve talk about the world-class musicians Charlie has worked with, the vulnerability of creating songs in collaboration, and what it looks like to stay human sized on a global stage. They discuss encouragement, love, and the power of praise. Steve and Charlie also talk about Charlie's sensitivity to the fear of others and how he has put into practice the work of love casting out fear. Resources mentioned in this episode include: “Putting Beauty into the World with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth” Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music by Charlie Peacock Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt by Andi Ashworth and Charlie Peacock The Odyssey by Homer “You Can Call Me Al” by Paul Simon No Man's Land by Charlie Peacock Turtle Island by Gary Snyder “Rowing Song” by Patty Griffin Music & Meaning Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“The richest man in the world turned off billions of dollars in funding for the literal poorest people in the world. It's just, from my perspective, incomprehensible.” So says Nathaniel Moller, former USAID worker. Nathaniel and Steve discuss the presidential administration's recent mass cuts to USAID programs and what the effects may be. They consider the cultural moments in America's history when “the big C Church and the little church” have had a choice—operate out of fear or from love—and why Nathaniel believes such a moment is upon us now. They talk about the tenacity required to combat global issues such as malaria, the beauty of using our gifts and skills to further the kingdom, and why Nathaniel still has hope for the common good.  Resources mentioned in this episode include: “US President's Malaria Initiative for States (PMI-S) Project”  The Hole in Our Gospel: What Does God Expect of Us? The Answer That Changed My Life and Might Just Change the World by Richard Stearns  “The United States President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Uli Chi thinks of wisdom, he primarily thinks of relational well-being.  Steve and Uli discuss where wisdom and relationships intersect, why we need wise leaders, and what it looks like to relate rather than react. They discuss the current political climate and how it affects human connections, and they consider the importance of treating people as persons, not as simple ideas. Uli sheds light on concrete steps for living wisely, drawing on biblical examples that provide hope, direction, and opportunities for delight. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Uli Chi The Wise Leader by Uli Chi “Ash Wednesday” by T. S. Eliot Necessary Endings: The Employees, Businesses, and Relationships That All of Us Have to Give Up in Order to Move Forward by Henry Cloud The Humor of Christ by Elton Trueblood Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it mean to live a fully integrated life in Christ? Lisa and Steve Cuss return to do a deeper dive into some of the profound themes that have emerged in recent episodes of Being Human. They reflect on what it means to be bewildered by God, as Zach Meerkreebs experienced during the Asbury Outpouring. They unpack Kathleen Smith's definition of differentiation and Eugene Cho's challenge to focus on one global need while championing others in their callings. The conversation also delves into Steve Carter's reflections on grief and the ways loss has shaped their own journeys of faith. Tune in for a thoughtful, hope-filled conversation on living whole lives in Christ. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Glenn Packiam “Authentic Love and The Asbury Outpouring with Zach Meerkreebs” “How to Be ‘True to You' with Kathleen Smith” “Eugene Cho's Guide to Mercy Over Burnout” “Revisiting ‘Grieve, Breathe, Receive' with Steve Carter” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Did you have integrity today?”  That's the question that Steve Carter—author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church—pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Steve Carter shares how he has dealt with being misunderstood when his highest values were wielded against him. He talks about the power of the Resurrection and shares what propelled him to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a memoir on grief and healing. Listen in for a rich discussion on relationships, reactivity, and remembrance. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock Steve Carter Craft & Character with Steve Carter Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter Willow Creek Community Church “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs” “Cadet Prayer” Annie F. Downs Ira Glass Camino de Santiago “What Is a Verbatim?” Compassion International “Welcoming Practice” The Worst James Harden Flops Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Feeling overwhelmed by the state of the world?  Steve Cuss and Eugene Cho, president of Bread for the World, offer wisdom for Christians who want to pursue justice without burning out. Eugene and Steve discuss moving from a savior complex to faithful discipleship, engaging politics with compassion, and using our gifts to fight hunger and inequality. Tune in for a powerful conversation on justice, mercy, and making a lasting impact. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Eugene Cho Bread for the World One Day's Wages International Justice Mission A21 Compassion International World Vision “Pastors Share Top Reasons They've Considered Quitting Ministry in the Past Year” “HIRR Releases New Report on Increasing Clergy Discontentment” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Where does your energy go?  That's the question therapist and author Kathleen Smith ponders with Steve Cuss as they discuss anxiety, people-pleasing, and playfulness. Their conversation covers the way people turn to relationships for comfort and the importance of recognizing our finite nature as humans. They talk about systems theory and how it shapes Smith's therapy practice.  Smith and Cuss discuss the ups and downs of gossip, the power of intergenerational connections, and the intention it takes to shift from overfunctioning to resting in God. Resources mentioned in this episode: Kathleen Smith True to You: A Therapist's Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself by Kathleen Smith Everything Isn't Terrible: Conquer Your Insecurities, Interrupt Your Anxiety, and Finally Calm Down by Kathleen Smith The Anxious Overachiever Bowen Family Systems Theory Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Zach Meerkreebs finished preaching at a university chapel service February 8, 2023, he texted his wife to say he felt like his sermon hadn't gone well at all. Four hours later, he wept into a voice memo, asking her to load up their kids and head his way as soon as possible. What we now know as The Asbury Outpouring was beginning. Meerkreebs, a pastor and author, describes what it's like to be part of a supernatural movement that takes on a life of its own. He and Steve talk about the shame many preachers feel after giving sermons they feel went poorly and how Meerkreebs has learned to steward his emotions in those moments. They talk about the vulnerability of grief, how God has met Meerkreebs at various moments throughout his life, and their hopes for the discipleship of Generation Z. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Lower: Igniting Spiritual Awakening Through Radical Humility by Zach Meerkreebs The Asbury Outpouring Adrenaline and Stress: The Exciting New Breakthrough That Helps You Overcome Stress Damage by Archibald Hart The Toronto Blessing Awakenings Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every human has three core relationships: to themselves, to others, and to God. Within those relationships, there are four dynamics that can infect them: assumptions, reactivity, predictable recurring patterns, and attempted solutions.  Listen in as Steve and Lisa Cuss start a conversation that explores these relationships and dynamics throughout 2025. The couple provides a high-level overview of each relationship and dynamic, setting the stage for upcoming episodes that will take deeper dives. They consider what the Lord's Prayer and the Book of Job have to say about who we understand God and ourselves to be. Steve also gives a preview of guests soon to appear on Being Human, including Zach Meerkreebs, Kathleen Smith, and Ian Morgan Cron. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Epiphany “It's Friday But Sunday's Comin! - Tony Campolo” Zach Meerkreebs Ian Morgan Cron Kathleen Smith Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss  The Expectation Gap:, The Tiny Vast Space between Our Beliefs & Our Experience of God by Steve Cuss Capable Life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether our holidays are snowy or sunny—as they are for Steve Cuss as he records from Perth, Australia—the same thing is true: Christmas is a time to remember God's nearness to us. Steve looks to the text of Luke 2, exploring Mary and Joseph's journey to Bethlehem and their quest for a place to stay. He describes the meaning behind the Greek word philoxenia (“love of the stranger”) and the Hebrew word Immanuel (“God with us”) and considers what those terms may mean for Christians today.  Ultimately, Steve encourages listeners to recognize that God is the ultimate host—welcoming us with love into a forever family. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Peculiar Treasures by Frederick Buechner “Six White Boomers” ​​Philoxenia Immanuel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When the American version of The Office premiered on NBC in 2005, its all-star cast charged right through the fourth wall and looked the audience in the eye. The show's unique style and cringeworthy stories didn't just put a new kind of television on display—they explored anxiety in the workplace and relationships in a fresh, often embarrassment-fraught way. As Steve Cuss and his son Andrew talk about the episode “Dinner Party”—arguably one of the most “I can't keep watching this but I also can't look away” moments of the show—they explore how the episode reveals anxieties and idiosyncrasies in the characters. They talk about enmeshment, detachment, and differentiation. Listen and consider how art often reflects our anxieties back to us and can help us better understand them. Resources mentioned in this episode include: The Office “Dinner Party” Friedman's Fables by Ed Friedman “Anxiety Is on the Runway in ‘The Devil Wears Prada'” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do a high schooler's senior year and the offices of a high-fashion magazine have in common? Stress. During a discussion of The Devil Wears Prada, Steve Cuss and his college-bound daughter, Kaylee Cuss, talk about the anxiety on display in the iconic Meryl Streep film. The two talk about how Streep's character, Miranda Priestly, may be the one in charge, but she's arguably also the most anxious. They talk about trying to fit into existing systems, high emotions in the workplace, and relational enmeshment. Tune in for a heartfelt, insightful discussion of failure, success, and taking care of the relationships that matter most. Resources mentioned in this episode include: The Devil Wears Prada “Ep148: Gilmore Girls and Systems Theory” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Joy Allmond was fresh out of college, she struggled to find a professional role in her field. She decided to make the most of her young, single years and became a flight attendant. The Lord used that experience to broaden her perspective—especially when she staffed one of the first flights to take to the skies after September 11, 2001. Now, Allmond is the executive editor of Christianity Today. She and Steve talk about how airport behavior often reveals deeper feelings and what it takes to manage a crisis. They talk about the recent CT redesign, new content in the magazine, and Allmond's hopes for CT's future. Allmond shares her thoughts on the church at its best, experiences of feeling fully loved, and taking time to hear from the Lord. Resources mentioned in this episode include: “We Can't Worry Our Way to Peace” November/December 2024 issue of Christianity Today “CT Design, Redesign, and Re-redesign, from 1956 to Today” “Qualms and Proverbs” (CT advice column) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the Thanksgiving holiday draws near in the US, Steve and Lisa Cuss reflect on the importance of gratitude. They talk about intentionally prioritizing the activities, people, and places that help us feel alive. Steve shares how keeping a Life Giving List has helped him through challenging faith seasons, and Lisa gives some practical examples for cultivating thankfulness in everyday life.  Steve and Lisa talk about the often emotional experience of gathering with family for holidays and how to develop a noticing frame of mind. They discuss political differences among loved ones, strategies for deepening our relational capacity, and the power of curiosity. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Capable Life Free Resource Dashboard (includes Life Giving List) “Enneagram, Anxiety, and What We Live For” with Jimmy Carnes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can Christians know if they are managing their relationships in a healthy way? What does it look like to treat people with mental health disorders lovingly and respectfully? When should parents of young adults speak up, and when should they let their children learn on their own? These are the types of inquiries that you, listeners of Being Human, have shared with us. Listen as the Cusses answer: What are family systems theory and internal family systems theory, and how do they relate to faith? How can Christians discern between healthy, gospel-based differentiation of self and becoming detached or cynical? How can leaders operate so that those around them can air their differences without dumping all their projections onto the leader? What does it look like to navigate settings where an individual's mental health struggle is setting the tone for a group? Since most well-meaning laypeople are not trained therapists, what is the church's role in dealing with mental illness? What are some words of wisdom for parents whose children will soon exit their teen years and enter young adulthood? Resources mentioned in this episode include: Bowen family systems theory Internal family systems theory  A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman Borderline personality disorder (BPD) “Introducing ‘Being Human with Steve Cuss'” Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs & Experience of God by Steve Cuss Capable Life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Being fully seen and fully known can feel, in a word, terrifying. And yet, that's exactly what our souls crave—and exactly what God designed for us to experience.  From the Sheep Meadow of New York City's Central Park, Steve Cuss explores the idea of being entirely ourselves. He considers the two protective extremes that often keep people from being fully human: pretense and pretending. Cuss walks through 1 John 3:19–20, which describes being vulnerable in the presence of a God who is greater than our hearts that condemn us. He looks at Jesus as the preeminent example of being exactly ourselves, shares stories from his time as a chaplain, and offers practical steps for remaining loving and curious in relationships. Resources mentioned in this episode include: The Meaning of Marriage: Facing the Complexities of Commitment with the Wisdom of God by Timothy Keller with Kathy Keller Capable Life Intensives Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Five years ago, Barrett Harkins walked Spain's Camino de Santiago—an ancient Christian pilgrimage walked by over 500,000 people each year—for a friend's birthday. Somewhere along the path, he called his wife and asked what she thought about moving there.  Now a missionary in Santiago, where he works with pilgrims on the path and at a hostel, Harkins and Steve Cuss walk the path together. They talk about the power of slowing down and the profound conversations that take place as people journey with one another. They explore what God does in temporary spaces, what it looks like to let go of what we no longer need, and why it is important to create a reflective mind.  Harkins discusses the history of the Camino, the reasons people walk the path, and the way many pilgrims—including Harkins—have found it to be a place where God meets them in their anxiety and offers transformation. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include: Camino de Santiago “The Power of Pilgrimage with Brian and Peri Zahnd”  Three Mile an Hour God by Kosuke Koyama John Mark Comer The Enneagram Striking Out: Poems and Stories from the Camino by Stephen Cottrell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chuck DeGroat's name has become somewhat synonymous with work on narcissism in the church. But as he and Steve Cuss discuss, DeGroat is devoted to shining a light on wholeheartedness and internal integration.   DeGroat and Cuss talk about anxiety—specifically around dying—and the way that age often brings with it a concern for one's legacy. They talk about experiencing pain through work in church settings, noticing emotions that arise in ourselves and others, and coming home to God and ourselves—all while considering the impact of secondary trauma on people in pastoral and helping professions, ways to distinguish between shutdown and rest, and our response to the invitation of God. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include: Chuck DeGroat Healing What's Within: Coming Home to Yourself—and to God—When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering by Chuck DeGroat Wholeheartedness: Busyness, Exhaustion, and Healing the Divided Self by Chuck DeGroat When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse by Chuck DeGroat  “Narcissism In The Chair”  Internal Family Systems model The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss “Always Beginners” by Thomas Merton Experimental Theology with Richard Beck The Enneagram Jesus, My Father, the CIA, and Me: A Memoir … of Sorts by Ian Morgan Cron Click here to ask Steve a question. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brandi Wilson was happily raising her three sons with her pastor husband—that is, until he decided to leave their marriage, their family, and the church they had invested in for years.  Close friends and leadership coaches Brandi Wilson and Lori Wilhite share how they weathered Wilson's devastating loss together. They talk about the particular struggles of being a pastor's wife and the heartbreak of feeling like someone else is controlling your life circumstances. They discuss managing anxiety, bearing one another's burdens, and healing even when restoration does not occur.  They also share about the community they run together—Leading and Loving It—and why, despite all the hard things, they still love the church.  Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include: Brandi Wilson Lori Wilhite Leading and Loving It Friedman's Fables by Ed Friedman The Enneagram Philippians: Chasing Happy by Lori Wilhite Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Beth Moore is sure of one thing: In God, nothing is wasted.  On this episode, Cuss and Moore talk about the trauma and trials she has faced, including her experience of being abused as a child, leaving the Southern Baptist Convention after devoting much of her life to it, and walking alongside her husband, Keith, as he navigates bipolar disorder. They discuss how Moore decided to share more of their story in her memoir and the ways God has ministered to people through that vulnerability.  Tune in for an episode that speaks to God's faithfulness in trauma, how Moore remains playful in the face of hardship, and what her recent back surgery taught her about how deeply God loves his children.  Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: All My Knotted-Up Life: A Memoir by Beth Moore Living Proof Ministries Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey  Surrender: 40 Songs, One Story by Bono Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever walked into a room and immediately sensed anxiety between two people? Or maybe you've entered into a challenging conversation and have barely been able to hear it over the thunder of your heartbeat. Perhaps you've received a “we need to talk” text and felt your stomach drop with dread.  These types of experiences—and reactions to them—are common, yet we often lack the tools to name or address them. On this episode of Being Human, Steve and Lisa Cuss introduce a tool called the Four Spaces that is designed to help us do just that. They explain the four spaces where anxiety shows up and offer wisdom and insight for engaging with each of them. Their conversation covers taking responsibility for our emotions, releasing our desire to control others, and relaxing in God's presence.  Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: The Four Spaces 24-7 Prayer Tools Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why would a loving God send people to hell? When you hear the word apologetics, that's likely the type of question that comes to mind. But Lisa Fields, one of the world's most sought-after Christian apologists and the author of When Faith Disappoints, says there are often much more personal inquiries beneath those intellectual inquiries.  In this episode, Fields and Cuss talk about pastors' kids, pain points, and perfect love. They discuss the importance of listening when it comes to challenging faith conversations and consider the ways that the church can become a place of refuge. Fields shares how the Jude 3 Project, which she founded, is helping the Black Christian community know what they believe and why. This episode covers trauma, chronic anxiety, and the healing that is only found in Jesus. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: When Faith Disappoints: The Gap Between What We Believe and What We Experience by Lisa Fields Jude 3 Project Unspoken Juneteenth: Faith & Freedom Why I Don't Go Leo Percer Tertullian Athanasius Click here to help new listeners find Being Human by leaving a review. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Around 250,000 people walk some portion of the Camino de Santiago, a 500-mile network of ancient pilgrim routes in Spain, each year. In 2016, Brian and Peri Zahnd became two of those people, and it's marked their lives ever since. On this episode, host Steve Cuss talks with the Zahnds about the ways that the pilgrimage shaped their perspectives on life and faith. The three discuss pastoring, political participation, and peace in Jesus. Their conversation also covers the Zahnds' books, ministry, and marriage.  Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include: Brian Zahnd Every Scene By Heart: A Camino de Santiago Memoir by Peri Zahnd Word of Life Church Camino de Santiago Faith, Hope, and Carnage by Nick Cave and Seán O'Hagan The Way Scot McKnight Paul Among the People: The Apostle Reinterpreted and Reimagined in His Own Time by Sarah Ruden Albergues on the Camino The Wood Between the Worlds: A Poetic Theology of the Cross by Brian Zahnd Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Humility isn't just deferring to the desires of others. It's also standing up for the weak.  So says Dennis Edwards, vice president for church relations and dean of the seminary at North Park University, on this episode of Being Human. Cuss and Edwards talk about how Edwards's many experiences of being the only Black man in the room have shaped him and his perspective. They talk about thoughtful and biblical approaches to theological education, the modern political landscape, and social media. And Cuss and Edwards consider how, for all of its flaws and challenges, the local church can offer unity in a way entirely its own. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: RevDrDre.com Humility Illuminated: The Biblical Path Back to Christian Character by Dennis R. Edwards  1 Peter (The Anchor Yale Bible Commentaries) by John H. Elliott The Urban Christian: Effective Ministry in Today's Urban World by Ray Bakke Bowen family systems theory Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bear is a show about cooking, kitchens, and Chicago. But for anyone who has watched more than an episode or two, it's clear there's more to the story. On this special episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss looks at seven core themes in the hit FX show The Bear. Through the lens of systems theory and anxiety theory, Cuss considers the false needs and beliefs revealed in the show's characters. He examines their contagious anxiety, sheds light on their conflict patterns, and considers what the show has to say about relationships. Diving into everything from untamed ambition to unprocessed trauma, Cuss ponders the deeply human moments that keep viewers returning to The Bear. Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes Alan Briggs, the founder of Stay Forth, a coaching organization that focuses on leader health and sustainable impact. Briggs's latest book, AntiBurnout, empowers readers to avoid the perils of burnout and offers practical ways to measure one's own health and well-being.  Cuss and Briggs discuss the back-to-school anxiety that so many families face, how our individual wiring contributes to our unique anxiety triggers, and how to navigate modern political life. Their discussion includes tips and tools for identifying the skills, gifts, and abilities that can lead us away from resentment and toward rest.  Resources mentioned during this episode include: The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss God, Christ and Us by Herbert McCabe AntiBurnout: A Lighter Way to Live and Lead in a Heavy World by Alan Briggs Stay Forth Dr. Wes Beavis The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team by Patrick Lencioni The Enneagram Capable Life Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Sermon on the Mount is beautiful. It's also hard. On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes his friend, the pastor and author Rich Villodas. The two discuss Villodas' new book, The Narrow Path, which focuses on the Matthew text. Villodas and Cuss discuss false needs, the longing for the good life, and what it means that God only dwells in reality. Resources mentioned during this episode include: New Life Fellowship Church The Deeply Formed Life: Five Transformative Values to Root Us in the Way of Jesus by Rich Villodas Good and Beautiful and Kind: Becoming Whole in a Fractured World by Rich Villodas The Narrow Path: How the Subversive Way of Jesus Satisfies Our Soulsby Rich Villodas God, Christ and Us by Herbert McCabe Faith Within Reason by Herbert McCabe The Ragamuffin Gospel: Good News for the Bedraggled, Beat-Up, and Burnt Out by Brennan Manning Pete Scazzero Click here for a trial subscription at Christianity Today. “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.” So says Paul in Romans 7, and so, it seems, says the character of Riley in Disney and Pixar's Inside Out 2. On a special episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss and his wife, therapist Lisa Cuss, explore what the film has to say about being human. They talk about the film in terms of the internal family systems model and family systems theory. Ultimately, they consider what it looks like to notice parts of ourselves while remembering our core identity in Christ. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Inside Out Inside Out 2 Internal family systems model Bowen family systems theory Richard Schwartz Capable Life “Put Yourself on Your Conscious List of Relationships” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are different kinds of anxiety, but there is one type of anxiety that always feels real in the moment when it is not. Unlike acute anxiety which is always based on a real threat, like when you have to swerve to avoid a car, chronic anxiety is always based on a false threat. Like making everyone happy, or doing it perfectly every time or always needing to be there for others.  In this episode Steve and Lisa dig into what do you think you need that you don't really need? And they also help you identify the big 5 sources of false anxiety.  Steve's latest book explores the gap between our belief and our experience.  Help us spread the word! Leave a review or share this episode with someone who might benefit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you on your own conscious list of relationships? If not, this episode is for you. Host Steve Cuss is joined by his wife, Lisa, to chat about putting yourself on your conscious list of relationships, responding to your inner critic, and three simple ways to diffuse anxiety in any situation. Steve and Lisa discuss the Enneagram, opportunities for individual and collective growth, and how connecting with God can improve our sense of self. This episode offers tangible practices for those who want to improve all types of relationships. These tools and more are featured in Steve's latest book The Expectation Gap. Visit Stevecusswords.com to access free courses that go along with this episode. Being Human will be on hiatus until August 18th. In the meantime, would you consider leaving a written review of Being Human or sharing this episode with someone you think might benefit? We really appreciate your support! Resources mentioned in this episode include: The Enneagram “Brené Brown on Comparative Suffering, the 50/50 Myth, and Settling the Ball” Steve's Free Courses “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Love isn't meant to be conditional, especially when it comes to our understanding of how God loves us. But this episode's guest—pastor, author, and podcaster Luke Norsworthy—says we're far too normalized to the idea that love is contingent upon how we practice our faith, obey, and function in general. On this episode, Norsworthy and Cuss talk about whether or not the phrase “unconditional love” is redundant. They consider how family language can be misused and what it might look like to become more integrated in our lives. They talk about the parable of the prodigal son, what it is to be acquainted with grief as a believer, and how to process disappointment. Their conversation also covers celebrity pastors, loneliness, and the value of vulnerability. The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here! Resources mentioned in this episode include: Luke Norsworthy Norsworthy How to Love the Life You Already Have: A Guide to Becoming the Person Life is Demanding You Be by Luke Norseworthy Herbert McCabe The Prayers of the People  Pepperdine University Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter Curt Thompson “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How can people connect with others without merging into them or letting them take over? How can we differentiate ourselves from one another while remaining connected in meaningful ways?  These are some of the questions that Being Human host Steve Cuss poses to his guests, Grace Liu and Cory Elisabeth. The founders of Pursue Inner Growth, a coaching and counseling service in Indonesia, Liu and Elisabeth share rich and nuanced thoughts on how culture, place, and heritage shape who we are. Cuss speaks with Liu and Elisabeth about the unique challenges Southeast Asians face, the difference between an individualistic culture and a communal one, and how people can deal with both individual and communal shame. Their conversation covers some of the variances in Western and Asian psychology, such as what the idea of setting boundaries looks like in different cultures. Liu and Elisabeth walk through case studies of difficult interpersonal situations, discuss the implications of honor-shame culture, and share what they, as Indonesian women, wish that Cuss knew as a white man. The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here! “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Artist. Theologian. Immigrant. These are the three words that come to mind for host Steve Cuss when he thinks of his guest, Phuc (Phu) Luu. On this episode, Luu responds to each of those terms, sharing how they make up who he is.  Cuss and Luu discuss what it means to take refuge and the meaning to be found in the fact that Jesus himself had to take sanctuary. They talk about art as a way to depict one's inner world and what motivates Luu to paint. Luu also reacts to the image of King Charles' new portrait in real-time on the episode (which was recorded before the vandalization of the portrait by activists).  They also discuss Luu's book Jesus of the East and its themes, including broken harmony, the restoration of Shalom, and the Korean term “han,” which means a sense of woundedness that is so deep there is no English equivalent. Luu also vulnerably shares what it's like to be the only Vietnamese or minority culture person in the room.  Tune in for an episode that tenderly and powerfully considers ethnicity, belonging, and the Jesus who understands everything about who we are. The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here! Resources mentioned in this episode include:  Phuc Luu People of the Way: Phuc Luu's Notebook  Jesus of the East: Reclaiming the Gospel for the Wounded by Phuc Lu Irenaeus of Lyons Andrew Sung Park Francis Bacon King Charles' portrait “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How many minutes per week do you think you can be exactly yourself? That's the question that host Steve Cuss poses at the beginning of this episode, and it takes on specific meaning as he converses with his guest, Marvin Williams. Williams is the lead pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, Michigan, and is currently earning his doctorate in systems theory, particularly as it pertains to the African-American experience. His forthcoming dissertation, My Whole Black Self, considers what it's like to be exactly yourself and what happens when people cannot be exactly themselves.  Cuss and Williams discuss what drew Williams to systems theory, how leadership starts with personal transformation, and what it looks like to live in one's identity fully. They talk about bullying, anxiety, and the Black writers, thinkers, and experts who have influenced Williams' perspective. The two discuss connectedness, what it's like to be in majority culture spaces, and how calmness is not always the opposite of anxiety. Their discussion also explores violence against Black Americans, the nuances of pastoring, and the role of politics in the life of the church.  The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here! Resources mentioned in this episode include:  Marvin Williams A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman Murray Bowen Bowen family systems theory Trisha Taylor “To Belong to One Another: Remaining Calm and Curious in Times of High Anxiety” with Rich Villodas The Souls of Black Folk from W.E.B. Du Bois Psychological Storms: The African American Struggle for Identity by Thomas Parham Charlie Dates Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices