Podcasts about Verbatim

“I don't think B2B is as boring as people say it is. I think people are just bored in general,” says Brianna Doe, founder and CEO of Verbatim.In this episode of The Content Cocktail Hour, Jonathan Gandolf sits down with Brianna Doe, founder and CEO of Verbatim, to unpack how B2B brands can show up with the same creative energy as B2C—without chasing trends or bloating their budgets.Brianna shares why influencer marketing deserves a real seat at the B2B table, what a minimum viable pilot program actually looks like, and how building a network on LinkedIn helped her go all-in on her own agency with zero outbound. She also dives into how internal influencers (yes, even your CEO) can drive brand affinity more authentically than any corporate page.In this episode, you'll learn:How to test influencer marketing in B2B—without a 6-figure budgetWhy internal creators are your brand's most underutilized assetWhat it takes to confidently build a business and brand from scratchResources: Connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-gandolf/ Explore AudiencePlus: https://audienceplus.com Connect with Brianna on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianna-doe/ Explore Verbatim: https://www.verbatim.comTimestamps:(00:00) Intro(01:07) Brianna's background and current work(01:52) From old fashioneds to margaritas(03:06) Journey into influencer marketing(04:42) Influencer marketing strategies for B2B(12:28) Tools and resources for influencer marketing(13:21) Internal influencers and company culture(16:48) The journey to Verbatim

When it comes to trust, it can take years to build and seconds to break. While this might feel like common sense when it comes to consumer-brand relationships, it's possible to overlook how crucial trust is in the brand-creator relationship. With a passion for this topic backed by a deep understanding, Brianna Doe, founder of Verbatim, joins Dave to share her take on building brand-creator trust and how it's shaping the broader creator economy. As someone who's worked on the brand, agency, and creator side, she provides a unique perspective on the dynamic between these groups. The conversation begins with a look at content saturation and how promotional overload has amplified the need for authenticity. Dave and Brianna unpack the evolving balance of control in these partnerships as more brands begin to loosen their grip. They also explore how this shift in control is influencing compensation models, with creators now leveraging content control as a bargaining chip. With trust and control so tightly linked to performance, Brianna emphasizes the importance of aligning on KPIs before a campaign begins and why choosing a primary and secondary success metric is a great call. Finally, they close the loop with language. Brianna shares why the words we use can signal how much a brand truly respects its partners and why that distinction matters more than ever.This podcast episode was produced by Quill.

La réputation de Nathalie Obadia n'est plus à faire. Déterminée, énergique et passionnée, elle incarne pleinement ces qualités lorsque nous la rencontrons dans sa galerie du Faubourg Saint-Honoré, un matin d'avril. Nous souhaitions l'interroger sur son parcours de galeriste entamé il y a un peu plus de 30 ans, en 1993, lorsqu'elle ouvre sa première galerie rue de Normandie (Paris 3e), ainsi que sur son livre récemment paru, "Figures de l'art contemporain. Des esprits conquérants", aux éditions Cavalier Bleu.Nathalie Obadia s'est imposée dans le cercle très fermé des galeristes. Elle raconte qu'à 13 ans déjà, elle visitait des galeries, engageant des conversations avec Mathias Fels, Jean-Marc Lambert, et d'autres figures du milieu. Daniel Varenne a même vendu à ses parents une œuvre de Tom Wesselmann. Passionnés par l'art, ses parents ont commencé une collection de pop art. Bien qu'elle vienne d'un milieu sans grande fortune, l'art y occupait une place centrale. Selon elle, la démarche de ses parents était atypique pour l'époque, car les acheteurs d'art étaient principalement issus de grandes dynasties familiales, dit-elle. Aujourd'hui, elle est convaincue qu'il est possible de constituer une collection sans nécessairement disposer de moyens considérables, mais en nourrissant avant tout une grande curiosité (mot qui reviendra souvent dans la discussion).Les grands-parents de Nathalie Obadia étaient commerçants, ce qui lui a peut-être transmis une fibre commerciale. Elle dit apprécier particulièrement l'échange, le contact.Par sécurité, elle entreprend des études de droit puis Science po en relations internationales qu'elle a d'ailleurs retrouvé comme intervenante: l'ancien directeur de l'IEP, Frédéric Mion, lui ayant confié un cours sur l'analyse du marché de l'art contemporain.Nathalie Obadia effectue plusieurs stages, notamment chez Maeght, avant de se lancer dans l'aventure d'une galerie.Nathalie Obadia dégage une impression de mouvement constant, de vigilance, malgre son succès. Mot qu'elle réfute toutefois : "Je ne vois pas mon parcours comme un succès. Il y a encore tellement à faire. Le métier a beaucoup évolué. Il n'y a pas de rente de situation. Chaque matin est un défi. Il faut trouver des projets pour les artistes que l'on défend, inventer des ventes, susciter des envies, et, bien connaître son environnement, à la fois national et international."Dans son ouvrage "Figures de l'art contemporain", Nathalie Obadia aborde un sujet essentiel : la nécessité de canaux de légitimation dans le monde de l'art, en particuluer avec l'émergence de l'art conceptuel. Elle situe cette rupture à la fin des années 1960 : "On s'est progressivement éloigné de la notion de beauté kantienne. Un objet peut devenir une œuvre d'art, mais ce n'est pas automatique. Il faut des intermédiaires pour le légitimer, comme par exemple les curateurs." Lorsqu'on lui demande si l'art conceptuel ne va pas parfois trop loin, elle répond que, selon elle, il existe plusieurs voies possibles pour un artiste. Et c'est le temps qui tranchera : "Il ne restera que les bons."VERBATIM"À 15-16 ans, j'ai fait des stages chez Adrien Maeght, en Italie chez des marchands, et chez Daniel Varenne qui avait vendu à mes parents une œuvre de Tom Wesselmann.-J'ai préféré faire des études plus classiques en droit et en sciences politiques, en relations internationales.-Le rôle du galeriste, c'est un peu celui d'un agent d'art. Je choisis de défendre un artiste. J'influence les gens influents : curateurs, critiques d'art, collectionneurs prescripteurs. -Mon rôle est de faire avancer la cause des artistes que je défends auprès de ces personnes. Une galerie de haut niveau a accès aux grandes foires, aux collectionneurs importants, aux musées. On peut redécouvrir un artiste. Cela a été le cas pour Martin Barré, qui est décédé en 1993.https://letraitpodcast.paris/

We preview this weekend's performances of "Terminal Exhale," the latest iteration of Carthage's Verbatim Theater Project. This particular production shares stories from frontline healthcare workers and what it is like for them to interact with victims of gun violence. (There is also an event happening at Carthage Saturday afternoon called "Healing the Healers" which will feature several guest experts discussing the trauma experienced by healthcare workers dealing with gun violence. My two guests are two members of the Carthage faculty: Martin McClendon from theater and Patricia Kelly from social worker.

The way Jesus healed a deaf man who struggled to speak seems rather odd, but shows us a lot about who Jesus is and what He came to do. Explore this emotional story from Mark 7 in Pastor Kevin's message, EVERYTHING WELL.

“Did you have integrity today?”  That's the question that Steve Carter—author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church—pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Steve Carter shares how he has dealt with being misunderstood and his highest values being wielded against him. He talks about the power of the Resurrection and shares what propelled him to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a memoir on grief and healing. Listen in for a rich discussion on relationships, reactivity, and remembrance. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock Steve Carter Craft & Character with Steve Carter Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter Willow Creek Community Church “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs” “Cadet Prayer” Annie F. Downs Ira Glass Camino De Santiago “What Is a Verbatim?” Compassion International “Welcoming Practice” The Worst James Harden Flops Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Did you have integrity today?”  That's the question that Steve Carter—author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church—pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Steve Carter shares how he has dealt with being misunderstood when his highest values were wielded against him. He talks about the power of the Resurrection and shares what propelled him to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a memoir on grief and healing. Listen in for a rich discussion on relationships, reactivity, and remembrance. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock Steve Carter Craft & Character with Steve Carter Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter Willow Creek Community Church “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs” “Cadet Prayer” Annie F. Downs Ira Glass Camino de Santiago “What Is a Verbatim?” Compassion International “Welcoming Practice” The Worst James Harden Flops Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jean-Christophe Camuset : Vigie du designJournaliste à Elle déco depuis 2021, Jean-Christophe Camuset a affiné son regard depuis ses débuts à IDEAT. Spécialiste du design et de la décoration, ainsi que des technologies, il cultive une passion communicative pour ces deux domaines qu'il explore avec un enthousiasme contagieux.Le Trait lui a demandé comment il repère les designers et ce qui le touche dans leur travail. Selon lui, le design repose sur deux éléments essentiels : l'intention et la contrainte. Pour lui, le designer est avant tout un artiste, mais un artiste soumis aux contraintes de la production et de la fonctionnalité. Le design, c'est toujours une rencontre entre l'esthétique et le fonctionnel. Jean-Christophe cherche avant tout à mettre en lumière l'innovation, ce qui n'a pas encore été vu, ce qui fait avancer le monde du design.S'il est passionné par la technologie, il estime que celle-ci doit servir la poésie, plutôt que d'être un simple effet de mode. À la rédaction de Elle déco, trois journalistes, chacun avec sa propre vision de l'image et de l'objet, se concertent pour repérer les nouvelles tendances et dénicher l'exclusivité. Ce travail l'amène à voyager fréquemment et à rencontrer de nombreux designers.Jean-Christophe reconnaît être moins attiré par le design scandinave, préférant le côté « débridé » et joyeux du design méditerranéen, en particulier celui d'Italie. Il évoque également la transformation en cours dans le monde du design, où les jeunes créateurs, moins soutenus par les fabricants qu'auparavant, semblent plus libres et créatifs. Ces nouveaux designers fabriquent eux-mêmes, ce qui leur permet de garder une approche plus authentique et novatrice.Il souligne aussi la différence fondamentale entre le monde du design et celui du luxe. Bien que le design soit souvent associé au luxe, il réalise des marges bien plus faibles, et les éditeurs du secteur n'ont pas la même surface financière que les acteurs du luxe.VERBATIM«-  Le design est indispensable dans la société dans laquelle nous vivons.- Je ne crois pas qu'il y ait de frontières entre art et design. Il n'y a que des zones grises. Les frontières se brouillent de plus en plus.– Je préfère aller chercher ceux qui font les choses différemment et qui font avancer le design et la décoration.– J'essaie de repérer ce qui est nouveau, ce qui ne relève ni de la redite ni du passéisme.– La technologie doit être au service de la poésie. Je n'aime pas la technologie pour la technologie.– Le monde du design évolue profondément avec moins d'acteurs traditionnels. Il y a une grande effervescence parmi les jeunes designers à Paris, Berlin, Londres. Les éditeurs, par frilosité, se tournent de plus en plus vers les grands noms déjà établis, ce qui laisse moins de place aux jeunes talents.– Les jeunes designers ne peuvent plus compter sur les grands fabricants pour vivre de leur art.– La formation en design est de qualité en France, mais après leurs études, les jeunes designers ne travaillent pas forcément dans leur domaine. Il y a peu de fabricants en France.– Le rôle du designer, c'est de se fondre dans l'ADN du fabricant. Cela fait partie des contraintes. Mais souvent, les fabricants se replient sur ce qu'ils savent faire, plutôt que de prendre des risques.– Le design, bien qu'étroitement lié au luxe, génère des marges infiniment plus faibles. Par conséquent, la surface financière des éditeurs est plus réduite. Les coûts de fabrication, de manutention et d'expédition sont considérables.– La crise du retail est profonde. Les designers doivent aujourd'hui travailler à 360 degrés, là où ils peuvent apporter quelque chose, notamment dans des domaines comme la scénographie, le design graphique, le design produit.– L'intelligence artificielle : les designers doivent s'emparer des technologies pour renouvhttps://letraitpodcast.paris/

Jean Kay Ibanez Payne is a Military Sexual Trauma Survivor, Certified Coach (Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, DEI) Entrepreneur, Author, Speaker Born in the United States and raised in Colombia, South America, she represents a remarkable blend of cultural experiences that shape her impactful narrative. Following her military service, Jean embarked on a 20-year career spanning workforce […] The post Jean Kay Ibanez Payne With T.I. Verbatim Consulting appeared first on Business RadioX ®.

This week's host, John Arndt, reads 3 articles from the January 2025 & June 1993 issues of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear “Turkey Trot Offshore 2024” by Andy Schwenk, “Exploring Baja Surf on S/V Sweetheart” by Jeremy Snyder & Maddie Zug, and “Triumph of the Spirit - The Odyssey of Bill Forrest” by JR. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/january-2025/#46, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/january-2025/#40, and on Page 102 of the June 1993 issue https://www.latitude38.com/magazine/archive/#1993

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 4 articles from the November 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear “Randall Reeves and Harmon Shragge Complete a West-to-East Transit of the Northwest Passage” by Tim Henry, “Blue Flash's Pacific Cup - Lions of the Sea” by Fernando Rosero, “J/24 Worlds in Seattle” by Jay Leon & Chris Weaver, and “Red Bra Regatta” by Kim Stuart & Chris Weaver. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/november-2024/#34, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/november-2024/#44, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/november-2024/#62

Wondering how to get the lessons from your scholarship disseminated more powerfully? @GabbyBrandy6 describe verbatim theatre as a creative approach to health professions education research translation. Read the accompanying article here: https://doi.org/10.1111/medu.15449

Brianna is the Founder and CEO of Verbatim. She helps companies build successful, scalable marketing programs. With more than a decade of experience in demand generation, content, influencer marketing, and social, she brings a unique perspective to her work. Today we discuss tips for storytelling during the job interview and more! Find Brianna on LinkedIn. Free Quiz: What career outside of the classroom is right for you? Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Verbatim completa su esquema de distribución en la región LAR South, que compone Bolivia, Perú, Paraguay y Uruguay, con Rochi Servicios, como distribuidor mayorista de un mix de productos muy amplio para Bolivia. Juntos, trabajarán para detectar oportunidades de negocios y desarrollar acciones de marketing a fin de apoyar al canal y garantizar que sus productos estén disponibles de manera oportuna y eficiente.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Links: Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics Website   Transcript: Cheryl: Good evening, everyone. You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for civil rights and Equality Network– AACRE– leverages the power of its network to focus on longterm movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to the fight for social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups. APEX Express is proud to be apart of the AACRE Network.  Joining us for tonight's show from Yokuts also known as Fresno, california is my special, big hearted friend Shai Chang from Hmong Innovating Politics. Also known as HIP. Shai, do you mind introducing yourself? Who are you, who are your people, and where do you come from?  Shai Chang: Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show. My name is Shai pronouns are they and them. I'm located in Yokuts Valley, currently in Fresno, California. I'm actually working with Hmong Innovating Politics located both in Sacramento and Fresno. I'm in the Fresno. And officially, just recently in October, I got my name title changed to be the Trans and Queer Fresno Community Organizer. So I am so ecstatic to be doing the trans and queer work in the Central Valley, yeah, born and raised in Fresno, Hmong, Southeast Asian, and really, actually I was born in a house. The rest of my siblings were born in the hospital. We were actually, the reason why was because we were trying to go to the hospital and my dad was like, Oh, wait for me, wait for me, wait for me, and couldn't wait any longer. Cheryl: And then you just popped out. You couldn't wait any longer. Did your dad make it in time? Shai Chang: I think my dad made it in time, but only in time for us to come out.  Cheryl: I didn't know that about you, Shai, that you were a home birth. How many siblings do you have?  Shai Chang: I have five other siblings. We were all born one year apart. Honestly, like, growing up, I really loved the idea of, Oh, we're all born one year apart. It's so nice. My siblings were so close. And now I'm looking back, Oh my gosh, my mom. Oh  Cheryl: my gosh. are any of your siblings also trans or queer?  Shai Chang: No, um, one of them is queer, but, the rest of my family is, actually very progressive and a great ally to me. So I've been very privileged and blessed.  Cheryl: Do you think that's a common Hmong queer experience to have supportive and progressive parents?  Shai Chang: so I'm not actually out to my parents or my grandparents or my uncles or some of my aunts. I am out to my siblings and so I think it's very interesting and I'm still grappling along with that as well. I think there is internal work to be done. It's that both I think it's, this is a reality of some things. It's that outside of the community, I'm queer and trans and at home, I'm very much having to play a role. My dad is a shaman and so he does do, they do come from a lot more like traditional values and conservative values. And at the same time, they are progressive on things. I think that they understand racial issues. But not gender issues. So you can wear, for example, I would say like my aunt, she it's like progressive and the most conservative ways, so it's like. Oh yeah, I'm totally okay that you're gay, Shai, but if my kids wore earrings, that's too feminine.   Cheryl: Thanks for sharing that shy. It's sounds like you've had to navigate a lot of different spaces, also expectations.  I'm curious, what was it like growing up queer in Fresno?  Shai Chang: I think that it has really shaped me because I feel like I came into my queerness and my transness so late. I feel like I came into being who and knowing who I am or what I am so late into my life. It wasn't until I was much more exposed into the organizing work over in the Bay Area. And so obviously big props to Lavender Phoenix.  Cheryl: Love them. Shout out Lavender Phoenix.  Shai Chang: And just really seeing so many of the organizers really live and their truth and who they are. And I. And having to also trying to figure out what that means for myself as well. Also knowing that How many other like Hmong trans queer folks are also might be going through the same thing as well. And so there is a definitely a strong sense of unwelcome this or not even unwelcome this, but not the intentional welcome. Right. When we think of radical welcome. From Lavender Phoenix, there is a lack of radical welcomeness within our Hmong community, and so, especially for trans and queer folks, and it wasn't until just this year that there's a in the Hmong community, there's 18 clans, or our last names, and there's an organization over in the Midwest, over in Minnesota, Minneapolis that just then wrote a letter in Hmong talking about the recognition that, Hey we recognize that we have not been intentional in inviting like trans and queer people into our community. So like one, it was super validating and two, that's just like the bare minimum. Okay. They recognize it, but what did they do? Right. Nothing. And so, or, you know, for me I didn't really see much, but also that's so different. Like that, that lived experience over in Minnesota is so different from the lived experiences in California for our Hmong community. And yeah.  Cheryl: Yeah Shine you're bringing up so many things. You're so absolutely right. There is such a different between. Merely tolerating transness and queerness, such as you know, in the story you shared earlier but your aunt and her kid wearing earrings. And then also with the vagueness and The lack of action and accountability in the . Minneapolis letter. Versus the radical, welcoming. Of trans and queer folk, such as, is done in Lavender Phoenix, which. For folks who don't know is also an AACRE group. that organizes is around building trans and queer AAPI power in the bay area. And I also love. That you called in that, of course there are differences in the lived experiences for the Hmong community in Minneapolis. Versus California. Because I also think that that's super true to in the in lived experiences for trans and queer as in the bay, Area. You know, such as, what Lavender Phoenix does. Versus the transness and queerness that is experienced in the central valley, which is of course where a majority of Hmong Americans in California live. Which is also actually a great segue to talk about the amazing work that HIP does and the work that you lead with QHIP, which is for listeners who don't know. Is short for Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride. Do you mind telling us what QHIP is and what led to its fruition. Shai Chang: Yes, thank you so much. Back in 2018, I actually was, that's when Hmong Innovating Politics actually branched out to Fresno. And that's when I was like, Oh, I've heard about you all, like in the organizing work over in Sacramento. I will love to get involved. And literally that weekend that they came in Mytao one of the original organizers for, to, to branch out into Fresno, she actually messaged me, it's Hey, I have this application that's due on Sunday. It's Seeding Change. Can you apply for it? I was like, Yeah, sure, of course. It's Friday. Also, how did you get my number? Ha ha ha ha ha., and so, like, it was just a great She actually got my number through, like, different connections here and there, and then that's how she got my number, and then she contacted me, and she talked Yeah, and so, that's how I got involved with HIP, was through Seeding Change. I've already been trying to organize in the Fresno community around , Hmong and trans and queer issues, and, , Leadership has always, always been a very big issue. Just finding other trans and queer leaders, and I was very lucky, it was such a very strange time that one of my were One of my friends, um, friends now, but then, uh, actually it's like this other random person came into Fresno and was like, Hey, I just got back from, Texas, and I am in Fresno. Like, I was born and raised in Fresno, I moved away, came back, and wanted to organize around trans and queer issues. I was like, no way!  So, on top of that, Mytao, later in the summer, was able to organize to get us, funding, and so we got 3, 000 just to organize for trans and queer issues, and in the next two to three months, um, we got 20 people to start showing up. We met every single week. Wow! And then on top of that, we were hanging out for another two to three hours. So I honestly, we all use obviously like our own personal funding, our own like, like vehicles, transportation, pick it up folks just so that we can meet and really being housed in like HIP's office. And. To really honor HIP, we were also trying to think of our name for our own space because I think it came from actually like being, and I, I really also want to share that like quip, the reason I'm like, why QHIP? Why QHIP? Why not join any of the, like the trans and queer spaces? Let me be very clear about why not join any of the other gay spaces in Fresno? So, and,, Fresno historically has been a very white cis space. male gay space. And so that's really also we want to highlight that. There is like also trans spaces that just came more recently as well, Trans-E-Motion. But before that , we were actually then like, okay, let's go and be a part of these organizing spaces as like our little group, right? And we show up to these spaces and they're asking, what's your name? , who are you all? What's your name? Are you gay little Asian boys?  And so I share the stories. As to, like, how much it speaks volume to the microaggressions, the internal racism that exists, and as well as how much, like, work is done. Like, why we need this space so much, right? When we show up to these spaces, we are not feeling that sense of belonging, that radical welcoming. And so, Yeah, we just started organizing from there and then obviously we were being housed and so HIP was like, okay So do you want to spin off and do your own organizations? Who are you and What's your five year plan and the whole time we're like “What?!” I've never thought about a five year plan, you know, and got, yeah, that's her name. And also Katie Moua, who's working with us as our , program director, you know. And so, we finally actually just this year became a program under HIP. So originally we were like a support group. We were just holding space and we just hit our five year last year and after seeing so much transition and leadership,, we just know that for, sustainability is that we need to make sure that we're holding it somewhere and so HIP was able to hold that program space for us. And so that's just where and where we're at right now.  Cheryl: Thank you so much for sharing the origin storyof QHIP. It's really inspiring to meto hear how organizations come to be? And. All of the community effort and community members that came together, recognizing a need and supported each other through it all. It really shows the power of mutual care and collective organizing. We're going to take a quick music break, but there'll be more on the incredible organizing workbeing done by QHIP for trans and queer Hmong folk in the central valley when we return. Up next. We'll be listening to “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.  Here's “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera.  And we're back. You're listening to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and also streaming online at kpfa.org. That last track was “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. We're here with Shai chang lead organizer of Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride (QHIP). A program by Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as hip. So far Shai has shared some powerful, personal stories about growing up queer and trans in a more conservative central valley.  And how essential programs like QHIP are for helping trans and queer Hmong Americans. I thrive in such places which are often hard to find. We've learned about how QHIP. Came to be and how it was created by and for the community through effort and also through. I would say great courage. So Shai. Can you tell us a little bit more about the programming that QHIP does? Shai Chang: Thank you so much for asking. A lot of the work that we do is rooted in healing justice. when we first came together, we just knew that. There's so much trauma that we had. Um, so I, I say this because one, we were like, okay, like, should we open it up to, like, other Asian Pacific Islanders? Should we do like a Southeast Asian, queer, trans work? And then, I was like, let's look at the space we're in currently. Who is in here with us? Like, how can we say that we're a lot of the time, it's, I think it's frustrating that it's always like, API, API, right? And there's no other Pacific Islanders in this space. Um, so it's like to say that Hmong people are here and it's okay for us to focus on Hmong communities. On top of that, we have so much particular trauma that if we then invite other folks into the space and they have their own intersectional trauma, how can we also hold space for them when we're also then trying to figure out our own, like. issues. And so, uh, not realizing that these were like rooted in healing justice. We just knew that we just needed space for ourselves and to heal and, and heal in different ways. And so in one of those ways, like, how can we heal and also have fun? And one of the organizers around that has been One of the events we did was Sports Day. Um, I was like, okay, how does Sports Day relate to healing, you know? And it's like, of course it does, right? We know that many times, like, trans and queer folks are not allowed to have fun in sports, are not allowed to be queer enough, like, they're too queer, um, that they're not allowed to be Performing to mask, to fan, and like in queer, like in sports. And so, we know and we recognize that it's so important for us to actually be able to live in these spaces as well. For us to reclaim these opportunities for ourselves. And so, um, It has shown up in many different ways. And so every single, almost every year we, we do something like that together. And so, uh, we did one in Sacramento and they're all like, this is where the BIPOC people have been at. Uh, because there is like a queer and like sports, like, uh, outing that is over there, but it's always like predominantly white, and so when all of the people of color started showing up, I'm like, oh! Uh, and so it's so funny. It's so funny. Like, that we get to actually practice community, care, and love, and intentionality, and really finding space of joy for one another, especially If you want to like play volleyball, hit the ball back into a twerk, you know, like we've seen our Southeast Asian Filipinos, like Cheryl: I love that image of just like this pack of like Hmong queer and trans folk just like rolling up, you know, I just love that image so, so much. And I love that point too. Like what does sports have to do with queer being queer and trans? And it has so much. It starts in those like little things, those little sports outings, being able to hit a volleyball and go into a twerk. That's healing justice. Wow. That is so incredible. You mentioned that when QHIP first started, it was around 20 people. What would you say like the age demographic is? of the people in QHIP.  Shai Chang: So when we first started, no one was over 30.  We had folks from high school, and we had folks, um, in like, uh, like over 18, um, and, uh, no one was over 30. Yeah, so we had a very young group and we can just see how like hip has also adapted into that as well It's not like we have always been really young organizers and so When you were talking about the budding and the seedings like that's what we do We train and we right now we are wanting to bring up and train other trans and queer leaders that really also want to be a part of the space too because One, like, to be very honest and transparent, if I'm gone, Quint is gone. That's what I mean by the sustainability of leadership. Like, I'm the one who's holding this work right now. And because we have just recently expanded over to Sacramento to have Christine also hold that space, like, oh my god, Once I'm gone, it's gone, right? And so  so we actually Went um, we had a booth at the Hmong New Year's. It was a queer and trans booth It's super queer super trans and we were anticipating lots of pushback And so folks we actually just asked like our friends who I mean like I already didn't have like queer friends already And so we asked our friends to just come and be in the booth with us, come organize with us, and then words kind of spread out around that, like, oh, there's this thing, they're doing this thing, and so folks came and volunteered. And I need to share this story because, like, we were all anticipating people to come to our booth and push back. Um, we've, there's like Christian monk folks there have come and done push back in the past, but there has never been like a trans and queer booth. Like a Hmong trans queer booth and so folks, we have like a photo booth in the back and the way that you can take brief pictures is that you just signed the board that I support Hmong LBTQ and really there was so much overwhelming love and support for us that many of the times like our own like folks, our own trans and queer folks, they had to take a pause and like, yeah, Actually, I need to take a break, right? I think this overwhelming sense of love and care from community and so this is where it grew and this is where and how we grew and also knowing at the same time that like there's so much multiple layers in this conversation, I'm sorry. Um, so it's like One, there is so many overwhelming support, yes, and that's how many people came and started to know about us and started organizing along with us. And the other piece and part of it too is that right now and where I'm at now is that I'm trying to organize for trans and queer spaces for Hmong folks, and I'm really trying to invite community to come and be part of us, and at the same time, not seeing folks show up. Um, and so like when we had our organizing program, our 7, 8, 9 month long organizing program, first time this year, opening it up for like, community to apply and be part of, like, 4 folks applied, and they were all allies, um, and so I, yeah, I didn't want to take that away from them as well, and so these are the people that applied, and these are the people that like, I will be working with, right? And so when we went to the Pride Parade, and other, like, trans and queer Hmong folks showed up, and they're like, Oh, is this an organizing program? And I was like, Yeah, it is! And they're like, Oh, I should've applied! And I was like, Yeah, you should've! And so, We, Christina and I, we really had to sit in with that, and it's like, why is that? Why is that, like, a really challenging place? Um, and we really lean in back into that, like, in the Hmong community, there is such a lack of welcomeness. There is such a lack of belongingness, like, many times in the Fresno, and this is just, like, trans queer people in general, in the Central Valley, is that For you to be trans and queer, it's for you to move away from home. Um, go to the Bay Area, go to L. A. And so, um, in our name, Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride, Intersectional from Kimberly Crenshaw, is really where we are highlighting that you can be queer and you can be Hmong. And Many of the times it's so hard for us to show up in like our own community because there's like so much layers of like anti blackness, like patriarchy, uh, lots of gender justice that needs to be done, transformative and healing justice that needs to be done and I appreciate Lambda Phoenix for being so bold and I'm also sitting over here. It's like how can I be bold and I think about, like, for us, like, we were already ostracized by our own community, some, many of the times, like, unwelcomed, and for us to then fight to be in our own community, it's such a big fight already, and then, like, folks would then welcome us, and then, okay, let's talk about police brutality. Right? How much of that would then also, um, be welcomed as well? And so really to be trans and queer is for us to be anti imperialist, anti capitalist, you know, anti, um, anti racism, right? And so Yeah, so like that's that's just so the realm that we're like like Hmong and trans queer folks are living in and so our next steps for our quip is for really us to build our sense of belonging. We're going to be launching our campaign Love is Love or Luya Lu um to really highlight um that that piece of belongingness within our Hmong and transqueer community that we do need to find a sense of belonging, that we don't need to be part of like our Hmong community to really find community, that we can have our own community and still be part Hmong and still be transqueer. Cheryl: I love that so much,, the I in quip intersectional is you can be queer and mom. And I think that is so brilliant. And I wonder the whole that also that piece you shared about how a lot of, you know, queer and trans, trans People of the Central Valley leave to go to larger cities, more liberal quote unquote spaces. I wonder, too, if that's part of the reason why there was low signups for your organizing program, because so much of the trans and queer among folk that are in quip are all really young and are still reliant on living in the same household as their family. Shai Chang: Yeah, thank you so much for highlighting that. Yes, that is so, so, so true. Um, I also really want to highlight that it's so hard on our femme and women folk, our transqueer femme and women folk, um, because in our experiences as a young person for them, they were the babysitters. Um, they were the caregiver and the caretaker of their family. And so many of the times it's that, you know, They could not join us in these particular spaces because they constantly had to ask for permission from their family just to be with us. Um, so, can I go? I was like, oh no, I need you to watch the house, or watch the babies, watch, watch your siblings. Um, I need you to take care of this, or X, Y, and Z, and so. It's a lot of, like, it's a lot of the patriarchy coming up in this multi layer, like, this multi layer level of oppression, multi layer level of, like, Experiences that Hmong and transqueer, , women and femme folks go through. And so really wanting to highlight that. Cheryl: So, of course, like I'm hearing the family dynamics, the patriarchy. What do you think are the other struggles that queer and trans Hmong youth currently face in Central California? Shai Chang: you know, the Central Valley is very poor., and so, lot of trans folks actually have a hard time in transition. There's only like one doctor that comes once in a long while that like really does affirmative care. And so we're trying to grow our affirmative care resource and our doctors list. And so now I think we've probably grown I think maybe like two or three in the Citra Valley. And I mean Central Valley from like Stockton to like Bakersfield, like there is no, like, it's hard to find affirmative care. And many of the times folks are, if they're wanting like gender affirming care, they have to go into the bigger cities. And so there has been in the past transportation. So obviously when we're doing like, it's, you know, Affirmative care surgery. It's a very, very big thing. And so transportation on top of like housing for rest is a very big thing as well. And so there was funding that folks have been organized to do transportation as well as housing to take care of them. What does what does aftercare look like? And so I think there's like those kind of layers like racism, Obviously, transphobia, , homophobia, and I think it just speaks to a lot, you know, about like the, there's like a lot of, and there is gender based violence in our community, quite a bit, right? When you think about patriarchy, of course, it's attached. I think in the media of the times, community needs to also see that patriarchy also impacts, patriarchy impacts all genders. Right. , it forces more, males and men to be more masculine, really pushing them away from what it means for them to actually have, like, quote unquote feelings, or being feminine, or, um, there's a lot of big drinking problem in our Hmong community as well, and so, there's lots of, like, over drinking and binge drinking, and so, yeah, there's also deeply rooted issues that are also, uh, showing up in the community as well. Cheryl: Wow, there's a lot. And it sounds like there's so much infrastructure and resources that are still, that still need to be developed. Central California is still developing their resources for trans and queer, especially trans and queer Hmong folk. My question then, Shai, because you, because I do agree, like if the moment you leave, QHIP is gone. How are you dealing? Because this is a lot of work. How do you deal with all of this responsibility? Shai Chang: I lean into hip. I have to. Um, to be very honest, I had a really hard time. I think last year, um, we had a really hard time when I was just like, I feel so alone. I went to this like conference. This was called creating change. It's their national, like LBGTQ conference and over in San Francisco and like February, July and went to that conference and then came back home. I was like the only trans, you know, I was the only person on the train back home. Right? And so it feels so isolating. It feels so alone sometimes. And I brought this up to HIP and we all just cried and we're like, This is not okay, right? And so that's when we started to see what programming for quip actually looks like and recognizing that something needs to happen. We need to build more. And so I also really want to highlight that it takes time and it takes It takes time and commitment to want to build with people. Um, and we were able to really build space for our trans and queer community here because we were so committed to wanting to build something here. Um, and so it is very alone, like, and also it's really to recognize that we are not alone. Um, I think Lambda Phoenix has done such a great job in really being able to model what that means and what that looks like. And literally asking for help. Um, it's not to say that I'm not good at delegating. It's not to say I'm not good at delegating. I'm just really bad at breaking down, like, these roles and responsibilities for me to then Invite other folks in to also to support me to help, you know, to make the movement go and grow together. And we're so used to doing this work alone. I'm so used to doing this work alone that I feel like I have to do everything together. I have to be the creative artist, the social media campaign manager. The comms manager, coalition building, I, I feel like I have to be then like the, the organizer, the program manager, the development, the HR, um, the supervisor, and, and at the same time as a, you know, not as a young person anymore, but like young enough still 29, is that I'm still also learning what organizing is and what organizing means. And so, um, it means all of us. It needs all of us. Cheryl: That's actually such an important dimension too, because as , you're all developing this in the works, you're also learning along the way. , I guess maybe to end our conversation. I want to know, because you bring up the welcomeness, the radical welcomeness you've learned from Lavender Phoenix and how Revolutionary that has been in your praxis of trans and queer organizing for Hmong folk. What does radical welcoming look like for you for quip moving forward in the next couple of years? What would you want it to look like? Shai Chang: What it will look like for quip is that Um, next year we're going to be launching a campaign and then continuing the Love is Love or Lu is Lu Ya Lu campaign and really highlighting the sense of belonging that needs to be built up in our Hmong community. Um, as much as we're fighting for trans justice, racial justice, and gender justice, and trans queer justice, and like, those are like the big words, and all of those things, and what does that mean? And it starts at the small, it starts at the small, like, if we don't even feel that sense of belonging within our own community, if we don't even feel that sense of belonging within our own selves, small like the sports day, it's not going to actually build in that piece of justice in the long term. And so it's so important that, um, we build in that radical welcomeness through all layers. And it can look very different. It doesn't have to be like, Oh, welcome. Verbatim welcome. This means that we are doing it every single time at every single point, at every single way. It looks like having dinners. Um, it looks like having fun. It looks like karaoke. It looks like listening to each other's story, passion mic, open mic nights, poetry slams, and sports days, and Really going out to vote together. It really looks and shines in all the different ways and really being in coalition with one another is how we're going to get there and build there. And so, yeah,  Cheryl: that was the perfect answer, Adrian Murray Brown writes about this all the time. Small is all. Radical welcoming in all areas of this work. I think that's just so beautiful.  We are actually going to take another music break. But learn how to plug into quips work when we get back. So don't go anywhere.  Up next is taking names by Rocky Ibarra. And we're back. You are tuned in to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3. KPMB in Berkeley and online@kpfa.work. You were just listening to you taking names by Rocky Berra. Before we close off the show shy. Do you mind letting our listeners know how they can stay in touch with Quip and learn about all of your upcoming programming? Shai Chang: Yeah, I would say follow us on our social media, Facebook and Instagram. That's a great place to begin, um, and continue to share and highlight us. , we are trying to post more. And you can follow us at qhip. ca at qhip. ca or quip. california. ca. Yeah, um, I think that's a great place to begin and then you all always can message me there. Um, yes.  Cheryl: Thank you shy. All of those links to equip socials we'll be linked in our show notes. And so before we close off for the night, do you have any last words, you'd like to share to any trans. Queer, mung folk who might be listening right now.  Shai Chang: Yes. Um, lean into your leadership. Lean into it. I know that you're so scared of, like, wanting to be in a leader because it feels like there's so much responsibility that comes with it. And know that you are not alone. In it. You are not alone in this leadership. You are never alone. There's so much people who have paved the way and so much people who are still here with us today. And so, I am here and we can learn and lean into each other and really actually create spaces of love. Like, how do we lean into love and not into our leadership? Right? And so, you don't have to feel like you are leaning into your leadership alone. But leaning into community and leaning into love. Cheryl: Thanks, everyone. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – October 24, 2024 – Trans & Queer Hmong Rise: Organizing in Central California appeared first on KPFA.

On this episode of Kirk and Marianne we test our memories and we talk about things that we have learned and know word for word. Tune in to hear Kirk, Marianne and our listeners talk about things that we can recite verbatim. Is it the 50 states? Is it an automated system? What about a movie quote? One way to find out. Hit play!

This week's host, Max Branstetter, reads 3 more articles from the October 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear “Baja Ha-Ha XXX - Who's Going? pt. II” by Richard Spindler aka the Grand Poobah, “Melges 24 World Championship - Brisk Battle” by John Arndt, and “First Extended Family Adventure” by Dave Lane. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/october-2024/#58, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/october-2024/#62, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/october-2024/#85

Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day for October 12, 2024 is: verbatim • ver-BAY-tim • adverb Verbatim is an adverb meaning "in the exact words," or in other words, "word for word." // The coach was quoted verbatim in the article announcing that she would retire at the end of the season. See the entry > Examples: "The case is drawn from astonishing real-life events and much of the dialogue is lifted verbatim from court transcripts." — Lisa Wong Macabasco, Vogue, 13 Jan. 2023 Did you know? As every bona fide word nerd knows, English is rich with Latin descendants. While most have undergone changes in spelling, some are the same—in other words, they are spelled verbatim. We won't list examples of such ad nauseam, but a few include caveat, ego, vice versa and, of course, verbatim. This last word comes to us from the Medieval Latin word verbātim which also means "word for word." As you may have noticed, there's a verb in verbatim, and that's no mere coincidence. Both verb and verbatim come from verbum, the Latin word for "word." The influence of verbum can be seen in other common English words such as proverb, verbose, adverb, et cetera. And speaking of adverbs, verbatim isn't just an adverb; it's also used as an adjective to mean "being in or following the exact words" (as in "a verbatim report") and on rare occasions as a noun referring to an account, translation, or report that follows the original word for word.

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 3 articles from the October 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear “Translated 9's Money Pac Cup” by Tony Gilbert, “Pre-Marriage Racing Program - Not Recommended for Everyone” by Don Hill, and “Passing the Torch” by Andrew Vik and JR. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/october-2024/#44, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/october-2024/#66, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/october-2024/#88

This week's host, John Arndt, reads 3 articles from the August 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear “Acapulco Yacht Club Thrives in the Wake of Otis” by Tim Henry, “Brigadoon - A Klaus Family Love Affair” by Martha Blanchfield, and “Countdown and Liftoff (Part 1)” by Shane Engelman. Follow along and read the articles on pages 42, 48, and 87 of the August 2024 issue at https://www.latitude38.com/magazine/

In this episode, I'm joined by success coach Gabe Cox to dig deep into one of the most effective strategies for writing copy that truly resonates: verbatim messaging. We're breaking down how using your customers' exact words—not just guessing at what they want—can lead to major boosts in your conversion rates. I'll also walk you through the DMO framework (Desires, Motivations, Obstacles) that I rely on to uncover those golden insights directly from your audience. If you've ever struggled to connect with your customers or feel like your messaging is falling flat, this episode is packed with actionable tips to help you turn things around.Listen to the full episode to hear:How verbatim messaging can transform your copy by using your customers' exact words.An introduction to the 100k method and how it leverages customer language to boost conversions.A step-by-step breakdown of the DMO framework (Desires, Motivations, Obstacles) for gathering valuable customer insights.Practical tips for better understanding your audience and crafting messages that truly resonate.FREE Resources to Grow Your Online Business:100K Method Podcast Series: https://www.gillianperkins.com/the-100k-methodWork with Gillian Perkins:Apply for $100K Mastermind: https://gillianperkins.com/100k-mastermind Get your online biz started with Startup Society: https://startupsociety.com Learn more about Gillian: https://gillianperkins.com Instagram: @GillianZPerkins

Lesley Logan sits down with Melissa Doman, an organizational psychologist and author of Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work, to discuss the importance of open dialogues about mental health in the workplace. They explore how to approach difficult conversations, the power of vulnerability, and actionable steps for fostering a supportive work environment.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:How companies are embracing mental health discussions.Advice for handling negative workplace dynamics.Ways to use specificity to solve workplace challenges.How intentions and impacts can differ in interactions.Insights from meeting Radical Candor author Kim Scott.The benefits of receiving and asking for support.Awareness vs. action in mental health conversations.Episode References/Links:Melissa Doman WebsiteMelissa Doman LinkedInMelissa Doman InstagramYes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work by Melissa DomanRadical Candor by Kims Scott (Updated Edition)OPC WebsiteOPC PerksGuest Bio:Organizational Psychologist, Former Mental Health Therapist, & Author. Melissa Doman, MA is an ​​Organizational Psychologist, Former Clinical Mental Health Therapist, & Author of Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work (Here's Why And How To Do It Really Well). Melissa works with companies across industries around the globe – including clients like Google, Dow Jones, the Orlando City Soccer Club, Microsoft, Salesforce, Siemens, Estée Lauder, & Janssen. She's spoken at SXSW and has been featured as a subject matter expert in Vogue, NPR, the BBC, CNBC, Inc., and in LinkedIn's 2022 Top 10 Voices on Mental Health. Having lived abroad in South Korea, England, Australia and traveled to 45+ countries, Melissa calls upon her global experiences to inform how she works with companies around the world. She has one core goal: to equip companies, individuals, and leaders to have constructive conversations about mental health, team dynamics, and communication in the workplace. Her work and book aim to accomplish just that.  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. DEALS! Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox Be in the know with all the workshops at OPCBe It Till You See It Podcast SurveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates MentorshipFREE Ditching Busy Webinar  Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable Pilates Follow Us on Social Media:InstagramFacebookLinkedIn  Episode Transcript:Melissa Doman 0:00  People take things the wrong way and people have triggers and people have sensitivity. So it is a two-way street. So if someone is impacting your mental health, it's also helpful to think about, wait a minute, how much of this is my stuff and how much of this is them? Because when people activate things in us, it's not usually 100% them, some of it, it is our stuff to a degree.Lesley Logan 0:26  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.  All right, Be It babe. This interview today is one of my dear, lovely women in my life. I'm so grateful that I got to meet her. So grateful I reached out to meet her like, please, you guys, reach out to people who inspire you and tell them. Like and we have an amazing story about that in this episode, actually. But that is how I met Mel is because I heard her on another podcast. I was like I want you on mine. She said yes. And then we met in person. And while you'll hear that, physically, you know sparkles and glitter didn't come parting out of us. I felt them. So today I have a guest back. She's been on the show before. And she's an incredible author, and we'll talk about her book Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health At Work and why you should. And we also talk a little bit how you can talk about it at work. And then what I'm excited for you to hear is also like two women sharing what it's like to grow in their business. And I know a lot of you are small business owners wanting to start new things and be working with other people. And I think it's so important that you know, everything is a work in progress. Everything takes a lot of time. A lot of people are doing things scared and doing the best they can and I hope that this really helps you see that you can do that, too. And you can be it till you see it. And it's not about being perfect. It's about learning. So here is Mel Doman. All right, Be It babe, this is gonna be an awesome wild interview. I'm just gonna say it right now, we're gonna have the best time Mel Doman is here. She's back. And she and I finally got to meet in real life. And it was a lunch that could have kept going in fact, I would definitely remember being late for my next call. So we are so excited that you're back, Mel, just in case anyone missed your first interview, can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at?Melissa Doman 2:48  Oh, I have been so looking forward to this. And when we got to meet up in person, I'm shocked that we didn't fart sparkles or something like that because it was just it was like a clashing of two galaxies. So I am Melissa Doman. I'm an organizational psychologist, former clinical mental health therapist and author of Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work: Here's Why… and How to Do it Really Well. So I teach businesses, leaders and individuals how to have realistic and constructive conversations about mental health, team dynamics and communication in the workplace. My clients range from really large organizations like Estée Lauder, Dow Jones, Google to midsize organizations like Orlando City Soccer Club to small mom-and-pop companies and everything in between. And I do (inaudible) virtually, in person, keynotes facilitation, (inaudible) interviews, strategic advising and on a personal note, I do a very impressive Chewbacca impression. I do.Lesley Logan 3:52  Okay, Brad is gonna be upset if I don't ask you to do it though. You know, likeMelissa Doman 3:56  It'll be your reward at the end. Lesley Logan 3:58  I love it. You got to stay till the end, stay till the end. Okay, so this happened, we happen to be talking about what one of the things that you focus on all year long during the month of May which apparently is mental health month I did not know this because I don't live by the calendar as of like today is like dog mom day I don't I don't do although people are gonna laugh because every Thursday we do use the calendar. Okay, today is change your password day. Like we do do that on Thursdays guys, but I don't actually look at the month. And what I love about you is that you're like, not about companies only focus on mental health in May you're about them focus on it all the time. And since we last had you on, do you feel that companies are more open to talking about mental health or do you feel like it's, do you feel it's just it's the same as before and you're still kind of do you feel like you've made a dent? Or you know what I mean? Like where are we at in society?Melissa Doman 4:53  Oh, yes. Oh, yes. So I actually think it's a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B and here's why. It's entirely company-dependent, industry-dependent, and in some cases, team-dependent, because you might have a company that's super open about talking about mental health, but then you have some butthead leaders who are like, I'm not taking part of my chip. So there are some companies that really took the pandemic, as a serious kick in the butt to enable these conversations in a more sustainable way for a whole host of reasons. There are other companies that are like, well, we're in endemic status now, so we can stop check-boxing and go back to what we were doing before. So it's a little bit of both, I think it really depends very much on the ecosystem in which people work, however, on a very public plateau, and you know, looking outwardly seeing all the messaging that's coming out, Oh, my God, it's everywhere. It has come so far, in the past, gosh, six years since I started subspecializing in this, it's unbelievable. I even saw and I'm very conscious, I'm on a wellbeing-focused podcast, so please forgive me for the example I'm about to give, okay? McDonald's, put out an ad that for Mental Health Awareness Month, they're taking the smiley face off of the Happy Meal, because kids have a whole range of emotions, and you don't want to tell them how they're feeling. And I was like, Oh, my God, I never would have imagined seeing something like that. Yes, it seemed to children. But you never would have seen something like that 10 years ago.Lesley Logan 6:40  I'm shocked. Melissa Doman 6:41  The Happy Meal. The Happy Meal.Lesley Logan 6:44  Yeah. It's called the Happy Meal.Melissa Doman 6:46  They took the smiley face off the box for the month of May. And I sat there, I was like, Oh, my God, this is unreal. And so you're seeing it way more in the public sphere, which is great. Some places it's performative. Absolutely. But you know, long, long story short, I think it really depends on who you're talking to, and where you're looking. Lesley Logan 7:08  Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm so happy to hear it's a little bit of calming, that's great. And I also think Melissa Doman 7:13  Oh yes, I think making sure of it. Lesley Logan 7:15  Yeah, I know, you have it. And I also think the honesty there that sometimes it is the people and I think that, you know, it can be person-dependent. And it can, yeah, that person can have such an effect on your ecosystem, your sphere of like where you're at. So you could be working for the company that has all the things and people, I don't know what they're called, people services, HR is like doing all this work to make sure everything is there. And then like, there's one person that's in front of you. And I feel like I might have talked about this a little bit on our first podcast episode together. But for the people listening who are working in a space where they feel like there's a person who's kind of affecting them being able to talk about mental health at work, do you have advice for them? Because I do think that's a be it till you see it kind of thing. You almost can't just like walk in and go, like, here vomit up all of the stuff that's going on to your mental health, but also like you also want to feel like you have the confidence and capabilities to share what you're feeling.Melissa Doman 8:13  Yeah. Well, I think it's a you know, there's two different questions in there. Because one is, you know, effectively talking about your mental health at work. The other one is letting someone else know when they're affecting your mental health at work.Lesley Logan 8:27  I don't think I've ever been able to, I think I don't work in corporate, I work for myself, because I don't know that I would be able to do the second one. Like tell the person you're affecting my mental health. Melissa Doman 8:35  Oh, I might have done exactly that at a job I had. Would you like to hear the tale? Lesley Logan 8:41  Yeah, let's do. People like, we like stories here. Melissa Doman 8:43  Oh, yes. So a boss I had before I went out on my own. And I was doing a temporary cover position for someone who's out on leave for a while. And that person who I was covering for was amazing, very good at their job. I was also good at that job. And I did it just a little bit differently. And people received it differently and in a positive way. So that person's boss looked at me very much as a placeholder to make sure to, you know, feel that I was not welcome, we'll say, and kind of resented the fact that I did very well and went out of their way to you know, sabotage me and just make sure that they told me and that I wasn't welcomed in this place, despite the success I was having. And it got really bad to the point where this person would, you know, sabotage actively like workshops I was doing trying to trip me up stuff like that. And one day, I just had enough. And I kept trying to win this person over with kindness that didn't work. And so they saw my face after one of the sessions. And I'm the woman of a thousand faces. So they said, "Are you okay?" I said, "Nope." They said, "Do you need to talk?" I said, "That would be great." And so we go into a private room. And I said, "You negatively affect my mental health at and outside of work." To which they said, "Well, what's your proof?" That was their, that was their response. I was like, Oh, my God. And I said, "Me telling you is the proof. It is the proof. I understand that you don't want me here. I understand that my contract is temporary. That doesn't mean you get an excuse to treat me poorly, sabotage me, make me feel unwelcome. You, you don't need to, like love on me like you do the rest of your team. But you need to treat me with respect. And for the remainder of my contract here. I am not going to put up with this anymore. And shame on you." This is the head of HR, by the way. I said, "Shame on you for being in a people-focused role and doing this to me." And she was floored. She was like, well, you know, just like they all do. Now listen, folks, I am more direct than most. And I realized that it was a temporary contract. And I was like, consequences be damned. But you have to be able to address people who are negatively affecting your mental health at work or dare I say being a bully. Is there a risk to addressing that? Absolutely. Absolutely there's risks. Do I recommend doing it like balls to the wall like I did? Probably not. That came from a place of desperation. But if someone is negatively impacting your mental health at work, and I know this is much tougher if it's a boss versus a colleague, so let's do an easier example, colleague, you may not want to be so on the nose. But let's say this person is like stressing you out, not communicating in an effective way, not getting stuff done, you know, whatever the reason is, it might be something that sounds like, I feel it's really important for our working relationship for me to tell you the impact that you've been having on me at work, and also how I work. I've been trying to do ABCDEFG, it's often met with XYZ. I want us to have a good functional relationship. But I experience you as making that very difficult for me. And I know this is a hard conversation, but I want to have it. So we can try and work this out. Are you open to this feedback, because we can't continue this way. Now, again, that's very, very direct. And a lot of people they don't they don't like direct feedback, even when you use radical candor, when you're, you know, giving feedback with care. And so the alternative is saying nothing, letting that person continue to do what they're doing without consequence and then your mental health goes into a ditch. So it really needs to be addressed. I'm a big fan of making sure people know that intention and impact are not the same thing.Lesley Logan 13:20  Okay, well, I want to touch on that. And I also just to say like, while it feels it can be direct actually thought that your example was quite specific. And you guys, if you go to the show notes, you can just take that little transcript part and insert ABCD as what they are and XYZ as what they are. Because here's why. Here's why I think that it can be very helpful. If you, too often, instead of being direct, we do the opposite of like, you know, you make me like feel like this. And there's and it's been, you know, for a while, and if you're not specific about what the feeling is, and when it happened, people are less likely to take you seriously or to take it seriously. Because they're Melissa Doman 14:01  And to ask for a different solution. Some of these people are asking for solution. Lesley Logan 14:07  Yeah. So I think like, if you, if you are someone who needs this, like, take that little sentence there, (inaudible) big sentence, and just try to fill in the blanks there and then use your own words. But I do know that specificity actually makes people at least listen to the conversation whether or not they choose to react to it or play along. And then if it is a colleague versus a boss, and when you go to your boss, you can say this is what I said, which is has all the specific moments of how you felt or how you're made to feel and then the instances that happen and people your boss can also take that seriously and understand exactly when the evidence when the things happen. And I think that's really, really important.Melissa Doman 14:48  Well, also coming to the table saying, you know, these things are making me unhappy. But I want to invite a conversation to try to work this out where there could be in some cases that people have no idea that they are impacting that way, there are some people who are really dense and they're like, oh my God, I had no idea. And then there's other people who will not even consider the feedback and be like, thanks for stopping by. But it doesn't mean that, you know, just because it's a hard conversation doesn't mean it's a worthy one.Lesley Logan 15:15  Do you remember? I just have to like side note, did you hear about the women who found out that they were all dating Huberman at the same time, and they all approached him and his Melissa Doman 15:26  Dating who?Lesley Logan 15:27  Huberman the podcast, or the health podcast, or the Stanford doc like the Stanford scientist, whatever, researcher, so. Melissa Doman 15:35  What is this? Lesley Logan 15:36  Okay, go down the rabbit hole, I promise you, it's everything. So you know, he's living with one woman and going through fertility with her, treatments with her. And then there was other women. And look, it sounds like maybe no one had actually had a conversation that they were in an actual monogamous relationship. So but they and they never came forward with their names. They actually came forward as a group to him and just said, hey, we found out we're all dating you like, you know, this thing. And his response was, thank you for your feedback.Melissa Doman 16:11  That makes me so sad. I love listening to him.Lesley Logan 16:15  I know I'm so sorry. Melissa Doman 16:18  Oh, no. Lesley Logan 16:18  I know. I'm so sorry. Melissa Doman 16:20  When did this happen? Lesley Logan 16:21  Early. So you guys, this is May. So I think like I want to say February, March, it came out. Oh my god, but he hasn't responded at all. He's like doing the non-response. He's doing the no response. So in your example, like he just saw, he's like, no, no, like, just gonna keep going with life as a (inaudible). It's really, it's actually a very interesting, like, observation of people.Melissa Doman 16:46  That makes me feel so achy. I'm so sad to hear that. Lesley Logan 16:49  So sorry. I'm so sorry. Because he has really good information. Yeah, but. Melissa Doman 16:53  It's the truth. Lesley Logan 16:54  And then we have to just decide, like, you know, are we listening for the information? Or do we care about the person but, anyways, (inaudible) I wanted, Brad's gonna be rolling his eyes once he hears this. Melissa Doman 17:04  I can't wait to look this up. Lesley Logan 17:05  I know. It's a worthy read. So, you mentioned intention and impact are different things. Can we expand on (inaudible)? Melissa Doman 17:14  Yes. I mean, what, gosh, what's that old crappy adage is like the road to hell is paved with good intentions, stuff like that. I say that is, you know, as an atheist who doesn't believe in that stuff. But so, the thing is that intention versus impact is really different. And if I want to, you know, keep it light for a minute, you know, for anybody who's in a committed relationship of any type, I call those the Greatest Hits fights. It wasn't what you said, it's how you said it. And then this is how it landed, you know, whatever. So the, and yes, people take things the wrong way. And people have triggers. And people have sensitivity. So it is a two-way street. So if someone is impacting your mental health, it's also helpful to think about, wait a minute, how much of this is my stuff? And how much of this is them? Because when people activate things in us, it's not usually 100% them, some of it, it's our stuff to a degree. And so before having that conversation, I think you got to talk to yourself and be like, what is it I didn't like about this? Why don't, why don't I like it? Is it really them? Do I have some stuff I need to look at, you know, what, what's the most effective way to approach this? Because oftentimes, people will go to somebody who is like stressing them out or whatever. And though, you're stressing me out, like, from ABC, like, you have to stop. And then, but that's it, there's no, here's why I'm bringing this up. Here's what I would like, instead. You know, it's, it needs to be more, you know, how do we change this trajectory as opposed to let me give you a laundry list of, you know, a laundry list of reasons why you pissed me off, and you make me like mentally sick. So that's not really a helpful way to encourage dialogue.Lesley Logan 19:08  Yeah, 'cause also, then you're asking the person who is pissing you off or stressing you out to then come up with another way on their own to like, they would just be guessing. So like, it's which means they probably will do nothing, because like, you just get stuck. Like there's two, yeah, if you tell me Melissa Doman 19:26  Or it's awkward. Yeah. If you're going to talk about your mental health, and this will go on to the other. The other question that you had, if you're going to talk about your mental health, whether it's someone who is disrupting it, or you're just struggling in general, no offense to folks who believe in clairvoyance, mind readers, mediums, people generally can't read your mind. So if you're going to be talking about your mental health, you have to tell people what's going on for you, what you want them to do with that information because if that's a very complex conversation, don't want to overcomplicate it if you don't have to. And so, most of the onus, when it comes to mental health conversations, especially at work, is on the listener, it's on the supporter. But I think if you're gonna go into that conversation, the sharer has some responsibility to do a little bit of backend prep first about the outcome that they're going for. Lesley Logan 20:19  Yeah, I think that's, I think that's very fair and very wise. And also it allows, I think the one of the reasons I love doing the show and be until you see it is like acting as if you're the person you want to be. It requires us to be reflective of things and not just go and do the same thing over and over again, expecting it to be a different result. Like you have to act differently. And you have to do things differently. And what you're asking is, like, if something's bothering you, be reflective, like, why is that bother me? What is this bringing up? How does it make you feel? And what do I want instead? And you know, and so, because then if you can figure out what you want instead, people actually do want, like, they do want you to feel good, because if you feel good at work, then everyone's going to feel better than if you areMelissa Doman 21:11  I wish that was true for every person. Lesley Logan 21:14  There's just some some assholes. Yes, that's true. Do you want to hear something? Melissa Doman 21:18  And listen, I agree with you, generally speaking, people have some shred of empathy. I will never forget that someone said to me that their boss told them and I quote, unless someone is dying, I don't want to hear about your mental health. Verbatim. Lesley Logan 21:37  So strange. Like the mental, it's so strange to me that people don't, you know, I also, here's the thing, like as a small business owner who tries very, very hard to be open to my teams need a Mental Health Day, sometimes you're like, so you want, you need a mental health day today? There's like, God, we got to work on a project. So I get it. And like part of me is like, okay, how do we make sure we have a, we pick deadlines, and we start them early enough that if anyone needs a mental health day, like it doesn't fuck the deadline, you know? So it's like, it's like the onus on me as a person who wants to be thoughtful of what if someone gets sick? What if this changes, you know, like, I've got a person on my team I know who wants to have a kid. So we're talking about things the next year, I'm like, that person might be pregnant. So like, if she's pregnant, how are we going to do that thing, just in case like, I want to, like think through and that requires sometimes a bigger team or longer timelines. So I do get as a business owner, how that can be frustrating. I do not get like not wanting to think about it all. Like, I feel like that is like you're just not gonna have a team who cares. They're gonna be thereMelissa Doman 22:42  Oh girl. You don't want to hear some of the stories I've heard, the level of dispassionate-ness I'm sure I'm not saying, dispassion, maybe that's the right way to say it, the level of dispassion is shocking. Not to me, but in general, they absolutely exist. I just spoke to someone not long ago, who, when I said, oh you're, you know, you're a leader and you're in such an amazing position of visibility and influence to influence these conversations. And again, it can't just be leaders it has to be people from any tenure position, because we're all chronologically aged. It felt, the first thing they said, and they have over 100 people reporting to them. When I say oh, well, you're in such a great position. How cool is that? And they said, Well, you just have to be really careful and dot your, and dot your i's and cross your t's, because, immediately went to the liability lens. And I was like, yes, of course, that's a concern. Yes, these things can go south, but you, you're just not ready. You don't want to if that's the first place that your mind goes, or maybe you messed that up in the past and then went poorly. So now you're off of that sauce forever. And it's you just, you, unfortunately, can't assume and it makes me sad. Lesley Logan 24:08  Yeah, it makes me sad because I like wish that their first thing was like, hey, I want it to be that, but here's what I'm worried about. Or here's what happened. Like, how do I like, like, I, you know, because like, it's not like it's been smooth sailing for like, everyone's gonna make mistakes, especially when it comes to like, especially when it actually does come to talk about mental health because at the same time as the person listening, you have your own I have my own mental health stuff, but you know, so then you're like, okay, now I'm going to take on your thing. Okay. Noted. Got it. Okay. Got it. Got to figure this out. But I think that's why I like your suggestion on how to talk about it. Because if someone came to me with like, here's what's bothering me, here's how I'm going. Here's what I want to happen. Even if I'm having not so great a mental health day I can go okay, cool. Let me take that. Let me think about it. Let me think of what I can do. You know, it doesn't feel like I'm being vomited up onto and then I've got to figure your shit out, plus my shit out.Melissa Doman 25:08  I have lost track, even after leaving clinical 10 years ago, when the number of people who go and my first question is, what would you like me to do with this information? Or, you know, how can I best help you? And they they start glitching? Because they didn't think of it. All they did was I just need to get this out. And I go well, great. But now what? So, it's, you know, I'm all about, I'm all about that good old fashioned vent. But, you know, even if you're gonna do that, tell someone I need to vent and then you know how to take the information? Lesley Logan 25:49  Yeah, I think there's just, it's almost like awareness. We all need a little self-awareness around or laws (inaudible) intelligence on like, what is it that you need? And so I mean, like, with my, my husband always wants to fix things, right? When I tell him what's going on. He was like, I want to like, he'll often say, like, what do you want with this information? I'm like, okay, you're right. So now I just say, I don't want you to fix this. I just need to be fucking pissed off about this right now. And it'll be really great if he just like got pissed off with me.Melissa Doman 26:19  Like, I had the same conversation Lesley Logan 26:21  Be mad at them with me. You know, because if, but I had to learn that because if you if you don't say those things, then they try to fix like, I want you to fix it like, and then they're just confused. Melissa Doman 26:33  They don't know. Lesley Logan 26:33  They don't know. And that's not just husbands. That's like, everyone in your life, people. So like preface what it is, it's event. I need, I have, I would like to talk about solutions. You know, I'm trying to figure out what I want. Like, you know, there's just different things. Yeah. We could talk forever. And but I, you actually brought up Radical Candor. And I think that's a great time for us to chat about, like, you met the author of Radical Candor.Melissa Doman 26:58  I did. i did. I have no chill. She was so cool about it. I can't remember if I told you this story. Lesley Logan 27:04  You can just tell me again, because I want you to, I want you to share it. Because when you so we're going to talk a little bit about your like, like big, big girl business badass pants, like at South by Southwest and like what happened but like this story makes me smile. So it's a very be it it till you see it moment, guys. Here it is. Melissa Doman 27:23  So I call Kim Scott, the queen of feedback. And I just love her Radical Candor model. That was you know, her first, her first book, The second book that just came out it's called Radical Respect. I'm like 60 pages in and I kept like, my neck was hurting I was nodding so much as I was reading it.Lesley Logan 27:46  Oh I'm behind on the times I need to get this book. Melissa Doman 27:49  It just came, you know it just came out like a week ago, like a week ago, I got an advance reader copy at South by Southwest.Lesley Logan 27:55  Oh, check you out. Melissa Doman 27:57  Well, she had a book signing, it wasn't just me. I would love to say that. But so speaking of South by Southwest, in March, and I had my keynotes and I was going to do my book signing later that day. And I saw that Kim Scott was there and I was like, oh my God. And so I unfortunately had to miss her session, but the session on book signing like an hour before mine. And so I got in line, and I was the first person in line. And I had her book in my hands. And I went up to the table. And just like in Wayne's World, I had no chill, and started moving my arms up and down and going, I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy. And I just was ridiculous. And she was so cool about it. And she's so sweet. And she signed my book. And we took a picture together, me and her and her book. And I had like the biggest shit-eating grin on my face. And I told her about what I do for work. And she's and I was doing my sign in an hour. And I said, you know, it would be the honor of my career if I could give you a copy of my book. You can totally say no, but I would kick myself if I didn't ask. And she said, yes, I would love a copy. Will you sign it? And I was like, oh, yes, Kim Scott, I will give you a copy of my book and sign it. And I was telling her how I use Radical Candor, a ton in my work on mental health at work. And she said, oh, you should come on my podcast. And I was like, for real? She's like, yeah, go talk to my manager. He's over there. So I'm currently scheduled to be on her podcast later this year. And I'm just shitting a brick with like, fear and excitement and sparkles like all at the same time because she, yeah, she's like, yeah.Lesley Logan 29:56  I don't even remember when I read Radical Candor, but I read it many years ago because I feel like it's not, it's been out for a while. But you know, there's those years of the pandemic that just all blur together. And I bought it because I had an assistant, and my husband, and one other person on the team, I'm like, I think I need to learn how to do this, I need to learn to talk to my team because I don't know. And I just really, I love her examples in that book. So I just, I'm so excited for you. It's so this is the coolest thing. I love it. Because like, first of all, I love that you actually, like, let yourself do that, because I think that is actually really cool. And probably why you got to even talk to her as long as you did. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you had just (inaudible). Like, I love your book, you know? Like, if you would just be like, and I have a book, it wouldn't have been as genuine like you're so genuine.Melissa Doman 30:53  Thanks, girl. Yeah, I actually have to give credit where credit is due my intern, who I will, she did such an amazing job, I'm going to be hiring her in a freelance capacity to do some other stuff. For me. She's amazing. She flew in all the way from Germany to support me at South by Southwest. And she ended up being like, my assistant handler, like, what do you need, like, whenever I was talking to people, like she had a copy of my book in her purse, I didn't tell her to do that. And she, when I was talking to this, like former NFL player, and I mentioned the book, she just popped out for my three o'clock, I was like, here's a copy. And I was like, oh, my God, she's the one. Lesley Logan 31:36  New SOPs for all new speaking gigs, by the way, new standard procedures.Melissa Doman 31:42  She's the one to encourage me to offer a copy of my book to Kim. And I was like, no, I'm sure tons of people are gonna do that. Like, I don't want to be rude. I don't want to seem opportunistic. And she said, you're not because just be yourself. Just be yourself and offer it to her how you would do it to anybody else. And I was like, okay, so it was because of my intern who encouraged me to do it that I did it.Lesley Logan 32:09  I love that you had someone there to help you. I think we all. So just to talk about this. You were at South by Southwest, you spoke there you presented. And you, yes, she came out to support you. But like, we all need to actually admit that, like, it's actually okay for people to support us. And it's so good to have someone there. Whether it is an intern, or someone that you can say, hey, I just need you to be here because like there's a lot that goes on at events when you and if you are not the if you're not, if you're not just an attendee if you're also speaking at them, or you're also presenting or something like, it can be very difficult to keep it all you can kind of get like I'm in my head until my presentation, I got to do these things. And we kind of get you can get a little linear. Having someone who can be outside looking in and like spotting things and reminding you of things. It's so important to have those people. When my husband comes with me to events, we actually it is, they are always the best events because if I go out, when I go to Poland to speak by myself, I come back I'm like, so there was like three people I was supposed to talk to about. I don't know that I actually did it. Did I do that? Like it's a whirlwind? And so it's easy to forget things. And so to have someone there, it's so key. Melissa Doman 33:20  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Having her change the entire experience for me. And every day, multiple times a day she goes, how can I support you? What do you need? How can I be helpful? There was even a moment because I was kicking myself for doing this, talk about a mental health panic. I was flying from Austin to Vegas, because then I spoke at a HR conference called transform, which is where you and I got to hang out. And so, not at the conference, but in Vegas. Lesley Logan 33:53  Yeah, you guys. The listeners did not think I was at a HR conference. They. Melissa Doman 33:58  No. So basically, I was like looking at my flight from Austin to Vegas. And I don't remember what happened. Because I think I got like it was heavily delayed or something like that. And I said, let me see if I can find a different flight In my stupidity I booked a flight for the next day, the wrong day. And then I tried to reverse it. And my seat was gone in under a minute. And I was panicking. And so she just come to my room from her hotel, and I was like, oh my god, I'm freaking out. And she goes, what can I do to help? We're gonna get this worked out. Just tell me and I was like, I'm so happy you're here. So she helped me and she like was doing other research. It all worked out fine. But you know, being a being a business of one. And now I'm at a business of like, five or six, and just remembering that, like I even opened up to so I mean, I realize, we, you and I've talked about this before, I feel I have the best assistant on the fucking planet. And I opened up to her the other day about some personal struggles I'm having and some other stuff that's going on. And she was so sweet. And she listened to me. And she, you know, we had a wonderful conversation. And she texted me actually later that night, and said, I'm really happy, we had a productive call, but I'm even more appreciative that you told me about the stuff that's going on. And like, my heart goes out to you, and I hope you're okay. And I was like, Oh, my God I love this person. It's good to ask for help. It doesn't matter. Like, how much of a badass, you know, you try to be, you know, everybody needs support. And I'm a huge, huge believer that it's a wonderful opportunity for people to support their boss, you know, managers support their team members. But I feel that's a two-way street. I really do. Lesley Logan 36:20  Yeah, well, I think like, especially when it comes to, you guys, for assistance. If you have one, like I told my executive assistant, I'm like, your job is going to have some things in my personal life and some things that are business life. And so you're going to know more about me, than the project manager does or anyone else in the team, aside from my husband, because there's just going to be things that I'm going to need help on so that I can do my job the best. And that was so hard for me to learn. My first assistant had been an assistant for a long, long time, so she trained me on what an assistant can do.Melissa Doman 36:58  Oh, mine is training me. She's training me, 100%. Lesley Logan 37:00  Totally, totally training me, like totally trained me. And she was so, so good at it. I was like, I was like, Can you do this? Can you do this? And she's like, it's my job. So you don't have to ask me if I can just, you actually can say, hey, here are the things I'd like you to do. And here's what I'd like them to be done by.Melissa Doman 37:17  Same conversation as mine. Oh my God. I literally sometimes have on my calendar. I'm not joking. I'll have like blocks with this do tasks for, her name is Alana, and I go do tasks for Alana and I told her I was like, I put my homework on my calendar to do my stuff for you. And she's like, you're ridiculous.Lesley Logan 37:38  I want to I want to say like, since you went from a business of one, and then now it's grown. And you obviously like your whole thing is like taught about mental health at work. How has that? What's the be it till you see it even doing to help yourself, like be the leader that you truly believe other people can be like, because I mean, like, you know what it is that you want to be like, was it easy to step into those shoes? Or did you find yourself taking your own homework?Melissa Doman 38:06  Oh, my God, being, being, okay, so hard. And I think that the best thing that I've been able to do, as I've been adding different folks to the team, now keep in mind, these folks are not full-time as a team of contractors, but they are my team. And I feel that what helped me transition best into that is admitting how novice I was. And basically saying, like, listen, I need to learn how to do this right. And so I'm gonna do the best that I think, but if there's anything I could do differently, I could do better, because I know they're coming from a good place. And so I always say like, please tell me, like, tell me what will help our relationship, what will help you succeed, etc. And so, for me, it was admitting how novice I truly was. And in some ways still am and how open to feedback that I want to be because I gosh, I had some terrible, terrible, terrible managers in my career. And that would be like a nightmare if I did something like that. And so yeah, that's it, admitting that I don't know how to do it all but that I'm trying to learn how to do it, you know, a little bit better a little bit more each day.Lesley Logan 39:41  I love that. That is awesome. I'm excited for you. You're gonna get, you're gonna get to do so many more things. Just so you know, because like, it's not easy to do it all yourself. There's like a lot of stuff that and by the way, like, there's a lot of times it's actually exhausting to do when you don't need to be the one that does it.Melissa Doman 39:59  Oh my god. I remember when I first started out with my assistant, that it was really because my business is my baby. And I work so hard, and I'm very detail-oriented. And it was really hard to find someone to trust. And they understood that, you know, they were like, okay, let's start with these low hanging fruit. We'll see how that goes, let's ease into it. And she really understood. And initially, because she, oh my god, she is like, amazing at the things I'm terrible at. So like process implementation, data management, you know, all these like, this, this core one-on-one set of things. I'm like, I don't want to do that. So she initially was so patient with me, because I fought it kicking and screaming, because I did everything like very manual. And now, I'm like, oh, my God, what, what can you take from me? And how do we do that? Because it's so nice to not have to worry and just have that complete trust in someone that she genuinely gives a shit. And that is so hard to find. Lesley Logan 41:01  Yeah. And also, when you know, when you start to, like, let go of the things that actually take up more brain space, because it's not natural for you, then you actually can spend more time doing the things that do come natural and do like (inaudible) why you like doing it, which means more energy and excitement and more ideas. And you can go, you know, you can go further because you've got people to help you.Melissa Doman 41:24  Exactly. So I'm in that scaling mode now. And it's, I'm not gonna lie, scary. It's tough. But I also know I need to, and my husband, probably maybe a year ago, or something a little bit less. He had a come to Jesus conversation with me and was like, you cannot continue doing everything yourself. You have to start finding people that can take stuff off your plate, and that you can trust. And this is not negotiable. And I was like, oh, fine. And it was the best lecture. I didn't want and, and needed, so.Lesley Logan 42:04  I'm glad he did that. Because it meant you had this event at South by Southwest because if you're like, you know what I mean, you wouldn't have had that it wouldn't have happened. Melissa Doman 42:14  The best part is when I have calls with my assistant, and my husband walks in and he goes, what are you talking about? And then Alana goes, we're talking about blah, blah. And so my husband's name is Matt, and she goes we're talking about blah, blah, and he goes oh fucking finally. He goes, I'm happy she's listening to you. (inaudible) You're ganging up against me (inaudible) there's two of them. Lesley Logan 42:40  Matt's gonna start sending her a Slack message just like hey, by the way, there's these other three things since she brought those up we gotta put these on the timeline.Melissa Doman 42:48  When they hear this episode, don't give them ideas. Don't give them ideas. Lesley Logan 42:52  I will say. So I wanted to, I wanted a Vespa in L.A. because like I wanted a little Vespa and you can just get a Vespa right? You don't have to like, you don't have to get a motorcycle license because they ride like a bike. But my husband's like, no, if you're gonna get a Vespa in L.A. you got to get a motorcycle license. And I was like, okay, I'll go. So my assistant, flexing the motorcycle license, school thing, whatever it is. And I did everything perfect, perfect written test every day of the practice was really great until the test, which of course, test anxiety, of course, this happens to me. All the people crash the whole time, they're crashing all the time, we get to the test, they don't crash at all. And instead, when we get to the breaking thing, I broke too soon. So they wanted me to do it again. And so when I did it again, my tire, I broke a little too hard on the on the back tire and it hit a little wet spot on paint on the parking lot. And of course, motorcycle crashes. I'm on the ground, and I failed the test. Right? So my sister was like, I'm so sorry, like, that happened, (inaudible) want to reschedule and I said, oh, we're not, we're not rescheduling. (inaudible) I'm gonna get an E-bike. He can't make me take a test for that. So like, there would be this movement like, hey, when is this getting rescheduled? And Lindsay's like, oh, I'm looking into seeing when Lesley's schedule can handled it. I'm like we're not doing we're still not doing it. So they can gang up on you. But you can, you can work it out. Melissa Doman 44:18  But it comes from a place of love and care. You know? There's different things that when we're doing it, and she'll even say to me, she's like, I know this is difficult for you. You need to remember what we're going for. And she's so patient with me. And she teaches me stuff like all the time and I really see her like as an advisor, in addition to being you know, my online business manager, my assistant like she is, she's like a trusted advisor for me. Lesley Logan 44:52  It sounds like especially as like, which, whatever she's doing evolves, sounds like she'd be a really great integrator and like could be the person who is your right hand who can then run people on the team so you don't have to, you know, that's like I'm sorry, I'm helping you grow.Melissa Doman 45:07  We might have had that conversation literally a few days ago. Lesley Logan 45:10  That's huge. Melissa Doman 45:12  Yeah. And so I think that, you know, she just like lives and breathes ops and like she justLesley Logan 45:19  Thank God for those people, if you breathe ops, you guys can work for anybody who's got big dreams, I promise you. Melissa Doman 45:26  She's amazing. And she's smart as a whip. And she's funny. And I just deep, I deeply care about her on a personal level. And you know, she, I feel deeply appreciative that she puts up with me. Lesley Logan 45:39  But I also just like a testament to the work that you do and the work that you've put out there, because it does attract people who want to work with that, and who want to be part of the vision, like the impact that you're making is really huge. And you can't you make a big impact by yourself. You have to have people that are that see your vision, but because of who you are, and how you've been putting yourself out there and the way that you have been, unapologetically, and really voicing why we have to talk about mental health, there are people who want to be part of that impact. And so you have to like celebrate yourself a little bit.Melissa Doman 46:15  Thank you. I appreciate that. Lesley Logan 46:16  You're welcome. So we're gonna take a brief break, and then we're gonna get those Be It Action Items and also the Chewbacca impersonation. All right, Mel, where can people find you, follow you, work with you, get your book?Melissa Doman 46:31  So my website is melissadoman.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, melissadoman on LinkedIn. On Instagram my handle is @thewanderingMel one word. And my book is available across all major online retailers. Amazon's the best place to get it but if you don't want to feed the Bezos machine, it's also available, you know, Target and Barnes and Nobles and all that. And, you know, if you feel like you need me to come in and crack some heads, no pun intended, to enable mental health at work conversations in your business, please reach out, I would love to help.Lesley Logan 47:11  Thank you. Okay, you've given us a lot, you gave us like some great tips on how to talk about things, but bold, executable, intrinsic target steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us? Melissa Doman 47:22  When it comes to mental health at work, awareness is great, action is better. And I think that when it comes to changing what conversations look like, it's one thing to have the intention to do it. And it's another thing to create the impact. So decide how you're going to speak differently about your mental health at work, or how you want to support others and in a different way. Because, you know, you may not be able to make a big dent, but any dent is helpful. Lesley Logan 47:50  Yeah, yeah. I like that. I like that. I think, I mean, we talked about at the beginning of the episode, in case you guys fast forward through the intro, because you've heard it so many times. I do say, action brings clarity. So like, you know, it really does. And so I think like, yes, talk about it, and then like, take the action and you'll understand more and more, you'll have more clarity around what to do next about the impact want to make.Melissa Doman 48:16  There's a reason that my tagline on my website that I trademarked is "Awareness is great, action is better." And I have to give credit again, where credit is due. My husband works in product marketing, and technology evangelism, and he's helped me so much with helping to shape my message and I always tell people, I have a crush on my CMO. I pay him, I pay him with respect and my company. He's amazing. He's so amazing at what he does, he does product marketing and technology evangelism for a salesforce partner company and I'm very deeply proud of him. Lesley Logan 48:57  That's amazing. That's so cool. You guys are a dynamic duo. Melissa Doman 49:01  We're trying to be, trying to be.Lesley Logan 49:04  Okay, can you do the Chewbacca voice for us? Melissa Doman 49:07  Oh god. Lesley Logan 49:08  Because I know, I know I have Star Wars fans especially my husband's going to listen to this. But also Hi Katie and Rachel andMelissa Doman 49:17  Okay. Ready?Lesley Logan 49:31  That's amazing. (inaudible) they'll love it and it was beautiful.Melissa Doman 49:37  Oh my god. I literally do that like as a reward to a workshop participants like if there's, if they're really engaged and not distracted by tech and they're like really present really, really doing the workshops with me. I dangle that as the carrot at the beginning and I go if you're good, if you participate, I will reward you all with this at the end. I would hold it. I would hold it if they don't.Lesley Logan 50:11  Yeah, I, well, thank you for sharing with us. And also because, hello Be It babe, you are a good listener, you made it all the way to the end. So thank you so much. Mel, you are the best, I just adore you. I'm so glad we got to finally meet in person, I got to have you back on the pod talk about what you've been up to. Because it is it I think is really important for people to see someone can have, like, publish a book and like make magic happen in their business and actually get those big, huge gets. And then also they keep going. And there's new, new moments of not just imposter syndrome, like going outside of your comfort zone and doing big things that scare you and then getting other big opportunities. So I cannot wait for your episode to come out with Kim Scott, because I'll be listening to it.Melissa Doman 50:54  Thank you so much. I'm so happy we get to meet in person, to come back on the pod and yeah, just really deeply appreciate it.Lesley Logan 51:03  Yeah. Well, y'all, how are you going to use these tips in your life? Are you going to read her book? Are you going to help talk about mental health at work? Because you should. And please share this with a friend. If you have a friend who's like even a leader or a person at a company who needs this, you know, this is how we get the word out there. And the more people who talk about this stuff, the more companies actually have to talk about these things because there's power in the workforce, really being empowered and knowing what they want to talk about and how they want to be treated. So please share this. We can spread Mel's amazing word. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod. Brad Crowell 52:17  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 52:22  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co. Brad Crowell 52:27  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi. Lesley Logan 52:34  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals. Brad Crowell 52:37  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time. Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Breaking Down Kamala's Eerily Similar Speeches from the Same Day – Quoting Herself Verbatim! What's Going On? Can Kamala Even Speak to a Crowd Without a Script? Plus, an Interview with Doug Wardlow! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Early August is usually something of a lull in the film calendar, but this year, at least in New York City, it's proved to be a goldmine—particularly for repertory programming. We had planned to record a single episode of our Rep Report series this week, but there was so much good stuff out there that we ended up recording three different conversations about three different programs, which we'll be sharing over the next few days. Stay tuned!  On today's episode, Jed Rapfogel, film programmer at Anthology Film Archives, joins Film Comment editors Devika Girish and Clinton Krute to discuss Verbatim, a new film series he's put together at the famed New York City theater. Verbatim features an exciting and wide-ranging lineup of titles, spanning features, shorts, experimental films, and made-for-TV titles that are all united by one theme: each of them makes verbatim use of a real-life transcript—be it a court document, a journalistic interview, a letter, or something else. Jed, Clint, and Devika share some of the highlights of the series, including James N. Kienitz Wilkins's Public Hearing (2012), which uses the transcript of a municipal town-hall about the expansion of a Walmart, James Benning's Landscape Suicide (1986), which recreates interviews with a pair of killers, and Elisabeth Subrin's short film, Maria Schneider, 1983 (2022), which offers three different riffs on an archival television interview with the titular actress. Verbatim runs at Anthology Film Archives through August 13. For interested viewers outside of New York City, check out filmcomment.com for streaming links to some of the featured films.

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 3 more articles from the June 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "From Sea to Shining Sea, Part 2" by Noreen Light, "Stad Amsterdam - 28 Days Before the Mast" by Pat Broderick, and "The 30th Annual Baja Ha-Ha Has Launched” by John Arndt. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2024/#84, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2024/#68, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2024/#44

In this episode of "Women in B2B Marketing," host Jane Serra welcomes Brianna Doe, Founder & CEO at Verbatim. Brianna delves into how she built her "portfolio career," revealing her creative passions and her role as a guiding light on LinkedIn, where she created a job board to help others. The conversation touches on her organizational strategies, the nuances of B2B influencer marketing, and the importance of clear communication with influencers to ensure campaign success. Brianna walks through:balancing multiple roles and the importance of a well-structured schedulethe concept of a portfolio career and how to pursue multiple passions professionallystigma and nuances of job hopping in the corporate worldstrategies for staying organized and managing various projects and time effectivelyleveraging SOPs - standard operating procedure docs - to scalechallenges and opportunities in B2B influencer marketingestablishing clear goals and metrics with influcner partnerships and collaborationssetting boundaries and seeking mentorship in the early stages of a marketing careerKey Links:Guest: Brianna Doe - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianna-doe/Host: Jane Serra - https://www.linkedin.com/in/janeserra/ Verbatim - https://www.weareverbatim.com/Brianna's Site - https://www.briannadoe.com/Stop the Scroll - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stop-the-scroll-w-brianna-doe/id1732308502

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 3 articles from the June 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "$2 Catamaran, Priceless Adventure" by John Arndt, "Falling In, and Saving Myself" by Apryl Hunt, and "Tire Bouchon, Pt. II - Berkeley to France” by Heather Breaux. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2024/#54, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2024/#46, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2024/#60

“Did you have integrity today?” That's the question that Steve Carter, author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Carter realized he couldn't go “play church.” He had to take the allegations seriously and act with integrity, which, for him, looked like resigning. On this episode of Being Human, Cuss and Carter discuss what it looks like to have integrity when mentors and institutions fail us. They talk about the heartbreak of losing beloved communities, navigating relationships when people feel betrayed, and how difficult it is to see broken systems when inside them.  Carter shares how he has dealt with the weight of being misunderstood, the way some of his highest values were wielded against him, and what it was like to deal with public loss and accusation as an Enneagram Three. He and Cuss talk about the power of the resurrection and the two Greek words that became an anchor for Carter. And they discuss what propelled Carter to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a stunning memoir on grief and healing that recounts Carter leaving Willow Creek Church, entering a wilderness season, and enduring loss upon loss upon loss, from income and reputation to precious family members and more. Resources mentioned in this episode include:  Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock Steve Carter Craft & Character with Steve Carter Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter Willow Creek Community Church “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs”  “Cadet Prayer” Annie F. Downs Ira Glass Camino De Santiago “What Is a Verbatim?” Compassion International “Welcoming Practice” The Worst James Harden Flops “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Did you have integrity today?” That's the question that Steve Carter, author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Carter realized he couldn't go “play church.” He had to take the allegations seriously and act with integrity, which, for him, looked like resigning. On this episode of Being Human, Cuss and Carter discuss what it looks like to have integrity when mentors and institutions fail us. They talk about the heartbreak of losing beloved communities, navigating relationships when people feel betrayed, and how difficult it is to see broken systems when inside them.  Carter shares how he has dealt with the weight of being misunderstood, the way some of his highest values were wielded against him, and what it was like to deal with public loss and accusation as an Enneagram Three. He and Cuss talk about the power of the resurrection and the two Greek words that became an anchor for Carter. And they discuss what propelled Carter to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a stunning memoir on grief and healing that recounts Carter leaving Willow Creek Church, entering a wilderness season, and enduring loss upon loss upon loss, from income and reputation to precious family members and more. Resources mentioned in this episode include:  Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock Steve Carter Craft & Character with Steve Carter Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter Willow Creek Community Church “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs”  “Cadet Prayer” Annie F. Downs Ira Glass Camino De Santiago “What Is a Verbatim?” Compassion International “Welcoming Practice” The Worst James Harden Flops “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We hear about the Carthage theater department's latest verbatim theater project - "Terminal Exhale" - from faculty member Martin McClendon .... as well as from Michael Cotey, founder of the organization "Enough: Plays to end gun violence," which encourages young people to write their own plays addressing the issue of gun violence. "Terminal Exhale" is comprised of the actual testimony of various front line health care workers who have had to deal with gunshot victims and have witnessed the carnage on an ongoing basis. The play tells the story of what they have seen and experienced. There is a public reading of the play coming up at Carthage this Saturday, May 11th.

Emmy Mattingly is an actress, writer, singer, and voice over artist originally from Louisville, KY. She graduated from Florida State University with a BFA in Musical Theatre. Before moving to LA, she performed as an  Equity Principle Performer at Walt Disney World Florida in  "Voyage of the Little Mermaid" and "Disney Jr. Live on Stage!". Just a few months after settling in LA, Emmy booked a recurring Guest Star on all episodes of Disney Channel's "Liv and Maddie"  as Liv 2 and as LINDA in Season 4.She has also booked roles on various networks  including NETFLIX ("Lucifer"), HBOMAX ("Verbatim"),  Nickelodeon ("Side Hustle", “Knight Squad”), MTV (“Mary+Jane”,  “Faking It)”, and YouTube Red Series (“WERID CITY”). However, becoming a Mom five months ago has been Emmy's most favorite and life changing role of all. There is nothing better than waking up every day as Cayden's mama!

Join us  as we talk with Teri Den Herder, longtime bookseller at the UCSD Bookstore, about Independent Bookstore Day, the annual celebration of indie bookstores, and the San Diego Book Crawl, the weekend when booklovers swarm the 13 participating bookstores in search of books, passport stamps, prizes, and surprises. We discuss the national day, how it got started, what's new this year (shuttle busses!), how the event has grown, what to expect, and how to have the most fun. We also discuss Teri's long career, the legacy she is creating with young booksellers, and the art of matching people and books, as performed by humans instead of algorithms. Also check out the participating San Diego bookstores from Diesel to Mysterious Galaxy, Joyride, La Playa, Verbatim, Bluestocking, and more. A super fun conversation about the events of this coming weekend that you don't want to miss!How to find out more about the San Diego Book Crawl:https://www.instagram.com/sdbookcrawl/Thoughts? Comments? Potshots? Contact the show at:https://booksshowstunes.discreetguide.com/contact/Sponsored by Discreet Guide Training:https://training.discreetguide.com/Follow or like us on podomatic.com (it raises our visibility :)https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/books-shows-tunes-mad-actsSupport us on Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/discreetguideJennifer on Post.News:@JenCrittendenJennifer on XTwitter:@DiscreetGuideJennifer on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferkcrittenden/

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 3 articles from the April 2024 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "Back to Paradise" by Warwick "Commodore" Tompkins and Jr., "Alone and Aground - Don't Give up the Ship" by Noreen May Light, and "The Art of Crew Life” by Yosh Han. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/april-2024/#86, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/april-2024/#68, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/april-2024/#50

Brianna Doe, Managing Partner, Marketing & Strategy with Verbatim, talks about her journey, growth strategies for building an audience from scratch, selecting and working with influencers, advice for the next generation and so much more. Connect with Brianna! ➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianna-doe Connect with Zach! ➡️ https://linkedin.com/in/zacharygalia Catch new episodes of a Very Good Social Media Podcast every Monday at 12 PM EST everywhere you watch or listen to podcasts.

In this engaging podcast episode, Jay invites Brianna Doe, the CMO of Influence by Verbatim, a leading B2B influencer marketing agency, to take us on a journey through the world of influencer marketing. Bri shares their expertise and discusses the often overlooked realm of business to business influencer marketing. Discover the explosive growth of this industry, the creative freedom it entails, and the secrets to successful collaborations with LinkedIn influencers. Don't miss out on this insightful conversation that could transform your marketing strategies! And check our Bri's new podcast, Stop The Scroll!As promised in the episode, you can click HERE to find influencers trending in certain industries and locations!And MASSIVE thank you to our Sponsor, Marigold!!Marigold is a relationship marketing platform designed to help you acquire new customers and turn them into superfans with their best-in-class loyalty solutions. Don't take my word for it though, American Airlines, Honeybaked Ham, Title Boxing, and Notre Dame University are also customers!Regardless of your size, check out Marigold today to get the solution you need to grow your business!Get this podcast EXCLUSIVE offer today!https://jayschwedelson.com/marigold/

Welcome Dream Team! Is your memory of an event, real or imagined? Today we talk about how fallible our memories are and different ways your memory can be altered.  Lexi discusses False Memory Syndrome. Mama Dawn talks about "Fuzzy Trace Theory" and how some feel jurors should be trained on how memories are stored to help them better decipher if a witness' testimony is accurate.  Tasha shares some posted answers to the questions, "it is possible to create a false memory?". What do you think? We would love for you to email us at deadtotheworldpodcast@gmail.com Follow us: @deadtotheworldpodcast @DTTWdreamteam Rate/Review us: iTunes, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser and Goodpods Thank you, Lexi, Mama Dawn, & Tasha

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/DavidAgranoff San Diego's 2024 New Year's Reading Resolution Event Recorded live at Verbatim Books. (so the sound is not the best sorry) Join members of the San Diego Horror Writers Association in an event to promote reading in 2024 and kick off the countdown to StokerCon, the international gathering of the Horror Writers Association, being held this summer right here in San Diego! Featuring authors: David Agranoff author of The Last Night to Kills Nazis, Jon Cohn author of Slashtag, Dennis K. Crosby author Death's Despair Cody Goodfellow author of Vertical. Sorry Tiffany Brown Mok had to cancel we were bummed too. The panel about their favorite reads and shares some tips for increasing your reading habits!

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 2 articles from the February 2023 and April 2023 issues of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "The Day a Sailboat Changed Our Lives" by Al Fricke and "Trimaran No Name - One Thing Leads to Another" by Stephen Wolf. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/february-2023/#44 and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/april-2023/#76

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads an article from the January 2023 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "Dawn Patrol - Jumping the Puddle Singlehanded" by Ben Lindner. Follow along and read the article at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/january-2023/#72

“The state of B2B marketing is fundamentally broken”Recently named Forbes 30 under 30 Adrian Alfieri, Founder and CEO of Verbatim is changing the game in B2B Content Engines. From VC to starting Verbatim, a company helping companies create content engines to generate demand, with clients including Novel, Parker, Open Store and more.What is content marketing?Why does your company need to care?How does effective content marketing drive leads and customer acquisition?We covered all of this and more in this episode with Adrian who, with Verbatim, is looking to fix the issue.Covered in the episode:What is a content engine and why do companies need them?From VC to Entrepreneur: Adrians journeyThe origins of Verbatim: based on demand and market opportunityThe cost difference in having in-house marking vs working with an agencyThe pillars of an effective content engineThe importance of tailoring content to the corresponding distribution channelTaking Verbatim from freelance work to a fully fledged agencyEntrepreneurship: the good, the bad, the uglyMuch more!Follow Adrian on LinkedInLearn more about Verbatim--------------------Supercharge your team's workflow to bridge the gap between media buyers and creatives.Want to get better creative performance, drive more profitable ad spend and arm your team with the most powerful creative reporting possible? Check out Motion. Motion has been a game changer the agency and our clients:Visual and customizable creative reporting: get to the insights quickerEasy to understand metrics, mapped to the consumer funnel stage: know where to optimizeEstimated 2 days per week of time saved from manual data pulling and reporting: more time for creative strategy and executionSupercharge your creative performance and team workflows HERE---------------------Join hundreds of brand founders, ecommerce operators and growth marketers getting weekly analysis, insights and actionable tips you can apply to your business today with my weekly Bitesized newsletter.Join the list HERE

Power, Manifest, and Verbatim lead us a 20 ft tall Santa, The Secret, CD travel cases, and more.New episodes every Tuesday.Editing by: Julia WD HarrisonTheme by: Arne Parrott Logo by: Casey BordenYou can email the show at twapod@gmail.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Alexis Rivera Scott is the founder of Verbatim, a digital marketing agency, as well as The Fairy Job Mom, a consultancy focused on helping professionals become Eternally Employable. She guides job seekers in their next career move, helps professionals build memorable personal brands, and introduces companies to amazing talent. Throughout her career, Alexis has successfully navigated career change and adaptation, with a vast range of industry experiences from hospitality sales, to technology marketing, to recruiting, and partnerships. She is passionate about empowering people to achieve their goals and grow within their careers - whatever they might be! In her free time, you can find Alexis creating content on LinkedIn, traveling across the world with her family, and thrift shopping for treasures. Questions and topics we covered include: Alexis' approach to scaling her audience and engagement on LinkedIn The easiest way to scale your LinkedIn following—the comments section of other influencers How to handle being laid off and what to do when it happens The common mistakes Alexis sees candidates make when applying for jobs (what's the opposite of being “eternally employable?”) What makes marketing resumes suck How to get a marketing job with no prior experience How to find the unposted / hidden jobs Why are Slack communities so important And more! Connect with Alexis on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexisjscott/ Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennysoto 

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 3 articles from the September 2023 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "Allen Gross Reflects on His Folly - Custodianship of a 133-Year-Old Boat" by Allen Gross, "Maui Memories: And Now It's Gone" by Andy Schwenk, and “Mediterranean Memories” by Sally-Christine Rodgers. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/september-2023/#66, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/september-2023/#50, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/september-2023/#92. Donate to the Maui recovery efforts at https://www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org/maui-strong and https://mauiunitedway.org/disasterrelief

We talk about flame broiled football, gas lit milk, and quoperating heliquopters.

This week's host, Ryan Foland, reads 3 articles from the August 2023 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear “Going With the Flow” by Ashley Gremel, “The Martian Chronicles” by John Riise, and “Transpac - Thursday's Child” by John Arndt. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/august-2023/#86 and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/august-2023/#56

If you're interested in sound design audio work for feature and scripted content, this is the episode for you! Hear from this Emmy-nominated team.  Anthony Vanchure is an Emmy-nominated Supervising Sound Editor who has strengthened a variety of projects in television and film with his unique talents and precise creative approach. Most recently, Anthony has been celebrated for his work on Roku's Weird: The Al Yankovic Story directed by Eric Appel and starring Daniel Radcliffe, which he spearheaded with his regular collaborator Mike James Gallagher. In addition, Anthony earned an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Sound Editing in Amazon's acclaimed documentary Lucy and Desi, directed by Amy Poehler. Anthony is also serving as supervising sound editor on Apple's upcoming original film Selena Gomez: My Mind and Me, which is set to open AFI Fest 2022. Mike James Gallagher is an Emmy-nominated sound designer who has elevated many films and television shows with his wide-ranging talents. Mike began his professional sound design career on the short film, Verbatim, which was an official selection at Sundance Film Festival. He went on to work on Netflix's 1922, an adaptation of a Stephen King novella, Netflix's Song Exploder, a series based on the popular podcast, HBO's Phoenix Rising, and Hulu/FX's Hysterical. He is also extremely passionate about sound design education, having produced and directed masterclasses for Oscar-winning sound designers Richard King and Mark Mangini.

This week's host, Monica Grant, reads 3 articles from the June 2023 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "Third Encore" by Doug Saxe, "Dismasted but Not Defeated - The Rescue of Niniwahuni" by Monica Grant, and "The Stoke of Skateboarding and/or Sailing” by Noah Rose. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2023/#92, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2023/#64, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/june-2023/#56

This week's host, Monica Grant, reads 3 articles from the May 2023 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine. Hear "Making Sense of a Life at Sea" by Emma Casey, "Master Mariners Racing - An Ageless Tradition" by Martha Blanchfield, and "Going with the Flow” by Ashley Gremel. Follow along and read the articles at https://www.latitude38.com/issues/may-2023/#54, https://www.latitude38.com/issues/may-2023/#64, and https://www.latitude38.com/issues/may-2023/#94

Jack Roehrig, Technology Evangelist at Uptycs, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud for a conversation about security awareness, ChatGPT, and more. Jack describes some of the recent developments at Uptycs, which leads to fascinating insights about the paradox of scaling engineering teams large and small. Jack also shares how his prior experience working with AskJeeves.com has informed his perspective on ChatGPT and its potential threat to Google. Jack and Corey also discuss the evolution of Reddit, and the nuances of developing security awareness trainings that are approachable and effective.About JackJack has been passionate about (obsessed with) information security and privacy since he was a child. Attending 2600 meetings before reaching his teenage years, and DEF CON conferences shortly after, he quickly turned an obsession into a career. He began his first professional, full-time information-security role at the world's first internet privacy company; focusing on direct-to-consumer privacy. After working the startup scene in the 90's, Jack realized that true growth required a renaissance education. He enrolled in college, completing almost six years of coursework in a two-year period. Studying a variety of disciplines, before focusing on obtaining his two computer science degrees. University taught humility, and empathy. These were key to pursuing and achieving a career as a CSO lasting over ten years. Jack primarily focuses his efforts on mentoring his peers (as well as them mentoring him), advising young companies (especially in the information security and privacy space), and investing in businesses that he believes are both innovative, and ethical.Links Referenced: Uptycs: https://www.uptycs.com/ jack@jackroehrig.com: mailto:jack@jackroehrig.com jroehrig@uptycs.com: mailto:jroehrig@uptycs.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey:  LANs of the late 90's and early 2000's were a magical place to learn about computers, hang out with your friends, and do cool stuff like share files, run websites & game servers, and occasionally bring the whole thing down with some ill-conceived software or network configuration. That's not how things are done anymore, but what if we could have a 90's style LAN experience along with the best parts of the 21st century internet? (Most of which are very hard to find these days.) Tailscale thinks we can, and I'm inclined to agree. With Tailscale I can use trusted identity providers like Google, or Okta, or GitHub to authenticate users, and automatically generate & rotate keys to authenticate devices I've added to my network. I can also share access to those devices with friends and teammates, or tag devices to give my team broader access. And that's the magic of it, your data is protected by the simple yet powerful social dynamics of small groups that you trust. Try now - it's free forever for personal use. I've been using it for almost two years personally, and am moderately annoyed that they haven't attempted to charge me for what's become an absolutely-essential-to-my-workflow service.Corey: Kentik provides Cloud and NetOps teams with complete visibility into hybrid and multi-cloud networks. Ensure an amazing customer experience, reduce cloud and network costs, and optimize performance at scale — from internet to data center to container to cloud. Learn how you can get control of complex cloud networks at www.kentik.com, and see why companies like Zoom, Twitch, New Relic, Box, Ebay, Viasat, GoDaddy, booking.com, and many, many more choose Kentik as their network observability platform. Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This promoted episode is brought to us by our friends at Uptycs and they have once again subjected Jack Roehrig, Technology Evangelist, to the slings, arrows, and other various implements of misfortune that I like to hurl at people. Jack, thanks for coming back. Brave of you.Jack: I am brave [laugh]. Thanks for having me. Honestly, it was a blast last time and I'm looking forward to having fun this time, too.Corey: It's been a month or two, ish. Basically, the passing of time is one of those things that is challenging for me to wrap my head around in this era. What have you folks been up to? What's changed since the last time we've spoken? What's coming out of Uptycs? What's new? What's exciting? Or what's old with a new and exciting description?Jack: Well, we've GA'ed our agentless architecture scanning system. So, this is one of the reasons why I joined Uptycs that was so fascinating to me is they had kind of nailed XDR. And I love the acronyms: XDR and CNAPP is what we're going with right now. You know, and we have to use these acronyms so that people can understand what we do without me speaking for hours about it. But in short, our agentless system looks at the current resting risk state of production environment without the need to deploy agents, you know, as we talked about last time.And then the XDR piece, that's the thing that you get to justify the extra money on once you go to your CTO or whoever your boss is and show them all that risk that you've uncovered with our agentless piece. It's something I've done in the past with technologies that were similar, but Uptycs is continuously improving, our anomaly detection is getting better, our threat intel team is getting better. I looked at our engineering team the other day. I think we have over 300 engineers or over 250 at least. That's a lot.Corey: It's always wild for folks who work in small shops to imagine what that number of engineers could possibly be working on. Then you go and look at some of the bigger shops and you talk to them and you hear about all the different ways their stuff is built and how they all integrate together and you come away, on some level, surprised that they're able to work with that few engineers. So, it feels like there's a different perspective on scale. And no one has it right, but it is easy, I think, in the layperson's mindset to hear that a company like Twitter, for example, before it got destroyed, had 5000 engineers. And, “What are they all doing?” And, “Well, I can see where that question comes from and the answer is complicated and nuanced, which means that no one is going to want to hear it if it doesn't fit into a tweet itself.” But once you get into the space, you start realizing that everything is way more complicated than it looks.Jack: It is. Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you mention that about Twitter. I used to work for a company called Interactive Corporation. And Interactive Corporation is an internet conglomerate that owns a lot of those things that are at the corners of the internet that not many people know about. And also, like, the entire online dating space. So, I mean, it was a blast working there, but at one point in my career, I got heavily involved in M&A. And I was given the nickname Jack the RIFer. RIF standing for Reduction In Force.Corey: Oof.Jack: So, Jack the RIFer was—yeah [laugh] I know, right?Corey: It's like Buzzsaw Ted. Like, when you bring in the CEO with the nickname of Buzzsaw in there, it's like, “Hmm, I wonder who's going to hire a lot of extra people?” Not so much.Jack: [laugh]. Right? It's like, hey, they said they were sending, “Jack out to hang out with us,” you know, in whatever country we're based out of. And I go out there and I would drink them under the table. And I'd find out the dirty secrets, you know.We would be buying these companies because they would need optimized. But it would be amazing to me to see some of these companies that were massive and they produced what I thought was so little, and then to go on to analyze everybody's job and see that they were also intimately necessary.Corey: Yeah. And the question then becomes, if you were to redesign what that company did from scratch. Which again, is sort of an architectural canard; it was the easiest thing in the world to do is to design an architecture from scratch on a whiteboard with almost an arbitrary number of constraints. The problem is that most companies grow organically and in order to get to that idealized architecture, you've got to turn everything off and rebuild it from scratch. The problem is getting to something that's better without taking 18 months of downtime while you rebuild everything. Most companies cannot and will not sustain that.Jack: Right. And there's another way of looking at it, too, which is something that's been kind of a thought experiment for me for a long time. One of the companies that I worked with back at IC was Ask Jeeves. Remember Ask Jeeves?Corey: Oh, yes. That was sort of the closest thing we had at the time to natural language search.Jack: Right. That was the whole selling point. But I don't believe we actually did any natural language processing back then [laugh]. So, back in those days, it was just a search index. And if you wanted to redefine search right now and you wanted to find something that was like truly a great search engine, what would you do differently?If you look at the space right now with ChatGPT and with Google, and there's all this talk about, well, ChatGPT is the next Google killer. And then people, like, “Well, Google has Lambda.” What are they worried about ChatGPT for? And then you've got the folks at Google who are saying, “ChatGPT is going to destroy us,” and the folks in Google who are saying, “ChatGPT's got nothing on us.” So, if I had to go and do it all over from scratch for search, it wouldn't have anything to do with ChatGPT. I would go back and make a directed, cyclical graph and I would use node weight assignments based on outbound links. Which is exactly what Google was with the original PageRank algorithm, right [laugh]?Corey: I've heard this described as almost a vector database in various terms depending upon what it is that—how it is you're structuring this and what it looks like. It's beyond my ken personally, but I do see that there's an awful lot of hype around ChatGPT these days, and I am finding myself getting professionally—how do I put it—annoyed by most of it. I think that's probably the best way to frame it.Jack: Isn't it annoying?Corey: It is because it's—people ask, “Oh, are you worried that it's going to take over what you do?” And my answer is, “No. I'm worried it's going to make my job harder more than anything else.” Because back when I was a terrible student, great, write an essay on this thing, or write a paper on this. It needs to be five pages long.And I would write what I thought was a decent coverage of it and it turned out to be a page-and-a-half. And oh, great. What I need now is a whole bunch of filler fluff that winds up taking up space and word count but doesn't actually get us to anywhere—Jack: [laugh].Corey: —that is meaningful or useful. And it feels like that is what GPT excels at. If I worked in corporate PR for a lot of these companies, I would worry because it takes an announcement that fits in a tweet—again, another reference to that ailing social network—and then it turns it into an arbitrary length number of pages. And it's frustrating for me just because that's a lot more nonsense I have to sift through in order to get the actual, viable answer to whatever it is I'm going for here.Jack: Well, look at that viable answer. That's a really interesting point you're making. That fluff, right, when you're writing that essay. Yeah, that one-and-a-half pages out. That's gold. That one-and-a-half pages, that's the shit. That's the stuff you want, right? That's the good shit [laugh]. Excuse my French. But ChatGPT is what's going to give you that filler, right? The GPT-3 dataset, I believe, was [laugh] I think it was—there's a lot of Reddit question-and-answers that were used to train it. And it was trained, I believe—the data that it was trained with ceased to be recent in 2021, right? It's already over a year old. So, if your teacher asked you to write a very contemporary essay, ChatGPT might not be able to help you out much. But I don't think that that kind of gets the whole thing because you just said filler, right? You can get it to write that extra three-and-a-half pages from that five pages you're required to write. Well, hey, teachers shouldn't be demanding that you write five pages anyways. I once heard, a friend of mine arguing about one presidential candidate saying, “This presidential candidate speaks at a third-grade level.” And the other person said, “Well, your presidential candidate speaks at a fourth-grade level.” And I said, “I wish I could convey presidential ideas at a level that a third or a fourth grader could understand” You know? Right?Corey: On some level, it's actually not a terrible thing because if you can only convey a concept at an extremely advanced reading level, then how well do you understand—it felt for a long time like that was the problem with AI itself and machine-learning and the rest. The only value I saw was when certain large companies would trot out someone who was themselves deep into the space and their first language was obviously math and they spoke with a heavy math accent through everything that they had to say. And at the end of it, I didn't feel like I understood what they were talking about any better than I had at the start. And in time, it took things like ChatGPT to say, “Oh, this is awesome.” People made fun of the Hot Dog/Not A Hot Dog App, but that made it understandable and accessible to people. And I really think that step is not given nearly enough credit.Jack: Yeah. That's a good point. And it's funny, you mentioned that because I started off talking about search and redefining search, and I think I use the word digraph for—you know, directed gra—that's like a stupid math concept; nobody understands what that is. I learned that in discrete mathematics a million years ago in college, right? I mean, I'm one of the few people that remembers it because I worked in search for so long.Corey: Is that the same thing is a directed acyclic graph, or am I thinking of something else?Jack: Ah you're—that's, you know, close. A directed acyclic graph has no cycles. So, that means you'll never go around in a loop. But of course, if you're just mapping links from one website to another website, A can link from B, which can then link back to A, so that creates a cycle, right? So, an acyclic graph is something that doesn't have that cycle capability in it.Corey: Got it. Yeah. Obviously, my higher math is somewhat limited. It turns out that cloud economics doesn't generally tend to go too far past basic arithmetic. But don't tell them. That's the secret of cloud economics.Jack: I think that's most everything, I mean, even in search nowadays. People aren't familiar with graph theory. I'll tell you what people are familiar with. They're familiar with Google. And they're familiar with going to Google and Googling for something, and when you Google for something, you typically want results that are recent.And if you're going to write an essay, you typically don't care because only the best teachers out there who might not be tricked by ChatGPT—honestly, they probably would be, but the best teachers are the ones that are going to be writing the syllabi that require the recency. Almost nobody's going to be writing syllabi that requires essay recency. They're going to reuse the same syllabus they've been using for ten years.Corey: And even that is an interesting question there because if we talk about the results people want from search, you're right, I have to imagine the majority of cases absolutely care about recency. But I can think of a tremendous number of counterexamples where I have been looking for things explicitly and I do not want recent results, sometimes explicitly. Other times because no, I'm looking for something that was talked about heavily in the 1960s and not a lot since. I don't want to basically turn up a bunch of SEO garbage that trawled it from who knows where. I want to turn up some of the stuff that was digitized and then put forward. And that can be a deceptively challenging problem in its own right.Jack: Well, if you're looking for stuff has been digitized, you could use archive.org or one of the web archive projects. But if you look into the web archive community, you will notice that they're very secretive about their data set. I think one of the best archive internet search indices that I know of is in Portugal. It's a Portuguese project.I can't recall the name of it. But yeah, there's a Portuguese project that is probably like the axiomatic standard or like the ultimate prototype of how internet archiving should be done. Search nowadays, though, when you say things like, “I want explicitly to get this result,” search does not want to show you explicitly what you want. Search wants to show you whatever is going to generate them the most advertising revenue. And I remember back in the early search engine marketing days, back in the algorithmic trading days of search engine marketing keywords, you could spend $4 on an ad for flowers and if you typed the word flowers into Google, you just—I mean, it was just ad city.You typed the word rehabilitation clinic into Google, advertisements everywhere, right? And then you could type certain other things into Google and you would receive a curated list. These things are obvious things that are identified as flaws in the secrecy of the PageRank algorithm, but I always thought it was interesting because ChatGPT takes care of a lot of the stuff that you don't want to be recent, right? It provides this whole other end to this idea that we've been trained not to use search for, right?So, I was reviewing a contract the other day. I had this virtual assistant and English is not her first language. And she and I red-lined this contract for four hours. It was brutal because I kept on having to Google—for lack of a better word—I had to Google all these different terms to try and make sense of it. Two days later, I'm playing around with ChatGPT and I start typing some very abstract commands to it and I swear to you, it generated that same contract I was red-lining. Verbatim. I was able to get into generating multiple [laugh] clauses in the contract. And by changing the wording in ChatGPT to save, “Create it, you know, more plaintiff-friendly,” [laugh] that contract all of a sudden, was red-lined in a way that I wanted it to be [laugh].Corey: This is a fascinating example of this because I'm married to a corporate attorney who does this for a living, and talking to her and other folks in her orbit, the problem they have with it is that it works to a point, on a limited basis, but it then veers very quickly into terms that are nonsensical, terms that would absolutely not pass muster, but sound like something a lawyer would write. And realistically, it feels like what we've built is basically the distillation of a loud, overconfident white guy in tech because—Jack: Yes.Corey: —they don't know exactly what they're talking about, but by God is it confident when it says it.Jack: [laugh]. Yes. You hit the nail on that. Ah, thank you. Thank you.Corey: And there's as an easy way to prove this is pick any topic in the world in which you are either an expert or damn close to it or know more than the average bear about and ask ChatGPT to explain that to you. And then notice all the things that glosses over or what it gets subtly wrong or is outright wrong about, but it doesn't ever call that out. It just says it with the same confident air of a failing interview candidate who gets nine out of ten questions absolutely right, but the one they don't know they bluff on, and at that point, you realize you can't trust them because you never know if they're bluffing or they genuinely know the answer.Jack: Wow, that is a great analogy. I love that. You know, I mentioned earlier that the—I believe the part of the big portion of the GPT-3 training data was based on Reddit questions and answers. And now you can't categorize Reddit into a single community, of course; that would be just as bad as the way Reddit categories [laugh] our community, but Reddit did have a problem a wh—I remember, there was the Ellen Pao debacle for Reddit. And I don't know if it was so much of a debacle if it was more of a scapegoat situation, but—Corey: I'm very much left with a sense that it's the scapegoat. But still, continue.Jack: Yeah, we're adults. We know what happened here, right? Ellen Pao is somebody who is going through some very difficult times in her career. She's hired to be a martyr. They had a community called fatpeoplehate, right?I mean, like, Reddit had become a bizarre place. I used Reddit when I was younger and it didn't have subreddits. It was mostly about programming. It was more like Hacker News. And then I remember all these people went to Hacker News, and a bunch of them stayed at Reddit and there was this weird limbo of, like, the super pretentious people over at Hacker News.And then Reddit started to just get weirder and weirder. And then you just described ChatGPT in a way that just struck me as so Reddit, you know? It's like some guy mansplaining some answer. It starts off good and then it's overconfidently continues to state nonsensical things.Corey: Oh yeah, I was a moderator of the legal advice and personal finance subreddits for years, and—Jack: No way. Were you really?Corey: Oh, absolutely. Those corners were relatively reasonable. And like, “Well, wait a minute, you're not a lawyer. You're correct and I'm also not a financial advisor.” However, in both of those scenarios, what people were really asking for was, “How do I be a functional adult in society?”In high school curricula in the United States, we insist that people go through four years of English literature class, but we don't ever sit down and tell them how to file their taxes or how to navigate large transactions that are going to be the sort of thing that you encounter in adulthood: buying a car, signing a lease. And it's more or less yeah, at some point, you wind up seeing someone with a circumstance that yeah, talk to a lawyer. Don't take advice on the internet for this. But other times, it's no, “You cannot sue a dog. You have to learn to interact with people as a grown-up. Here's how to approach that.” And that manifests as legal questions or finance questions, but it all comes down to I have been left on prepared for the world I live in by the school system. How do I wind up addressing these things? And that is what I really enjoyed.Jack: That's just prolifically, prolifically sound. I'm almost speechless. You're a hundred percent correct. I remember those two subreddits. It always amazes me when I talk to my friends about finances.I'm not a financial person. I mean, I'm an investor, right, I'm a private equity investor. And I was on a call with a young CEO that I've been advising for while. He runs a security awareness training company, and he's like, you know, you've made 39% off of your investment three months. And I said, “I haven't made anything off of my investment.”I bought a safe and, you know—it's like, this is conversion equity. And I'm sitting here thinking, like, I don't know any of the stuff. And I'm like, I talk to my buddies in the—you know, that are financial planners and I ask them about finances, and it's—that's also interesting to me because financial planning is really just about when are you going to buy a car? When are you going to buy a house? When are you going to retire? And what are the things, the securities, the companies, what should you do with your money rather than store it under your mattress?And I didn't really think about money being stored under a mattress until the first time I went to Eastern Europe where I am now. I'm in Hungary right now. And first time I went to Eastern Europe, I think I was in Belgrade in Serbia. And my uncle at the time, he was talking about how he kept all of his money in cash in a bank account. In Serbian Dinar.And Serbian Dinar had already gone through hyperinflation, like, ten years prior. Or no, it went through hyperinflation in 1996. So, it was not—it hadn't been that long [laugh]. And he was asking me for financial advice. And here I am, I'm like, you know, in my early-20s.And I'm like, I don't know what you should do with your money, but don't put it under your mattress. And that's the kind of data that Reddit—that ChatGPT seems to have been trained on, this GPT-3 data, it seems like a lot of [laugh] Redditors, specifically Redditors sub-2001. I haven't used Reddit very much in the last half a decade or so.Corey: Yeah, I mean, I still use it in a variety of different ways, but I got out of both of those cases, primarily due to both time constraints, as well as my circumstances changed to a point where the things I spent my time thinking about in a personal finance sense, no longer applied to an awful lot of folk because the common wisdom is aimed at folks who are generally on a something that resembles a recurring salary where they can calculate in a certain percentage raises, in most cases, for the rest of their life, plan for other things. But when I started the company, a lot of the financial best practices changed significantly. And what makes sense for me to do becomes actively harmful for folks who are not in similar situations. And I just became further and further attenuated from the way that you generally want to give common case advice. So, it wasn't particularly useful at that point anymore.Jack: Very. Yeah, that's very well put. I went through a similar thing. I watched Reddit quite a bit through the Ellen Pao thing because I thought it was a very interesting lesson in business and in social engineering in general, right? And we saw this huge community, this huge community of people, and some of these people were ridiculously toxic.And you saw a lot of groupthink, you saw a lot of manipulation. There was a lot of heavy-handed moderation, there was a lot of too-late moderation. And then Ellen Pao comes in and I'm, like, who the heck is Ellen Pao? Oh, Ellen Pao is this person who has some corporate scandal going on. Oh, Ellen Pao is a scapegoat.And here we are, watching a community being socially engineered, right, into hating the CEO who's just going to be let go or step down anyways. And now they ha—their conversations have been used to train intelligence, which is being used to socially engineer people [laugh] into [crosstalk 00:22:13].Corey: I mean you just listed something else that's been top-of-mind for me lately, where it is time once again here at The Duckbill Group for us to go through our annual security awareness training. And our previous vendor has not been terrific, so I start looking to see what else is available in that space. And I see that the world basically divides into two factions when it comes to this. The first is something that is designed to check the compliance boxes at big companies. And some of the advice that those things give is actively harmful as in, when I've used things like that in the past, I would have an addenda that I would send out to the team. “Yeah, ignore this part and this part and this part because it does not work for us.”And there are other things that start trying to surface it all the time as it becomes a constant awareness thing, which makes sense, but it also doesn't necessarily check any contractual boxes. So it's, isn't there something in between that makes sense? I found one company that offered a Slackbot that did this, which sounded interesting. The problem is it was the most condescendingly rude and infuriatingly slow experience that I've had. It demanded itself a whole bunch of permissions to the Slack workspace just to try it out, so I had to spin up a false Slack workspace for testing just to see what happens, and it was, start to finish, the sort of thing that I would not inflict upon my team. So, the hell with it and I moved over to other stuff now. And I'm still looking, but it's the sort of thing where I almost feel like, this is something ChatGPT could have built and cool, give me something that sounds confident, but it's often wrong. Go.Jack: [laugh]. Yeah, Uptycs actually is—we have something called a Otto M8—spelled O-T-T-O space M and then the number eight—and I personally think that's the cutest name ever for Slackbot. I don't have a picture of him to show you, but I would personally give him a bit of a makeover. He's a little nerdy for my likes. But he's got—it's one of those Slackbots.And I'm a huge compliance geek. I was a CISO for over a decade and I know exactly what you mean with that security awareness training and ticking those boxes because I was the guy who wrote the boxes that needed to be ticked because I wrote those control frameworks. And I'm not a CISO anymore because I've already subjected myself to an absolute living hell for long enough, at least for now [laugh]. So, I quit the CISO world.Corey: Oh yeah.Jack: Yeah.Corey: And so, much of it also assumes certain things like I've had people reach out to me trying to shill whatever it is they've built in this space. And okay, great. The problem is that they've built something that is aligned at engineers and developers. Go, here you go. And that's awesome, but we are really an engineering-first company.Yes, most people here have an engineering background and we build some internal tooling, but we don't need an entire curriculum on how to secure the tools that we're building as web interfaces and public-facing SaaS because that's not what we do. Not to mention, what am I supposed to do with the accountants in the sales folks and the marketing staff that wind up working on a lot of these things that need to also go through training? Do I want to sit here and teach them about SQL injection attacks? No, Jack. I do not want to teach them that.Jack: No you don't.Corey: I want them to not plug random USB things into the work laptop and to use a password manager. I'm not here trying to turn them into security engineers.Jack: I used to give a presentation and I onboarded every single employee personally for security. And in the presentation, I would talk about password security. And I would have all these complex passwords up. But, like, “You know what? Let me just show you what a hacker does.”And I'd go and load up dhash and I'd type in my old email address. And oh, there's my password, right? And then I would—I copied the cryptographic hash from dhash and I'd paste that into Google. And I'd be like, “And that's how you crack passwords.” Is you Google the cryptographic hash, the insecure cryptographic hash and hope somebody else has already cracked it.But yeah, it's interesting. The security awareness training is absolutely something that's supposed to be guided for the very fundamental everyman employee. It should not be something entirely technical. I worked at a company where—and I love this, by the way; this is one of the best things I've ever read on Slack—and it was not a message that I was privy to. I had to have the IT team pull the Slack logs so that I could read these direct communications. But it was from one—I think it was the controller to the Vice President of accounting, and the VP of accounting says how could I have done this after all of those phishing emails that Jack sent [laugh]?Corey: Oh God, the phishing emails drives me up a wall, too. It's you're basically training your staff not to trust you and waste their time and playing gotcha. It really creates an adversarial culture. I refuse to do that stuff, too.Jack: My phishing emails are fun, all right? I did one where I pretended that I installed a camera in the break room refrigerator, and I said, we've had a problem with food theft out of the Oakland refrigerator and so I've we've installed this webcam. Log into the sketchy website with your username and password. And I got, like, a 14% phish rate. I've used this campaign at multinational companies.I used to travel around the world and I'd grab a mic at the offices that wanted me to speak there and I'd put the mic real close to my head and I say, “Why did you guys click on the link to the Oakland refrigerator?” [laugh]. I said, “You're in Stockholm for God's sake.” Like, it works. Phishing campaigns work.They just don't work if they're dumb, honestly. There's a lot of things that do work in the security awareness space. One of the biggest problems with security awareness is that people seem to think that there's some minimum amount of time an employee should have to spend on security awareness training, which is just—Corey: Right. Like, for example, here in California, we're required to spend two hours on harassment training every so often—I think it's every two years—and—Jack: Every two years. Yes.Corey: —at least for managerial staff. And it's great, but that leads to things such as, “Oh, we're not going to give you a transcript if you can read the video more effectively. You have to listen to it and make sure it takes enough time.” And it's maddening to me just because that is how the law is written. And yes, it's important to obey the law, don't get me wrong, but at the same time, it just feels like it's an intentional time suck.Jack: It is. It is an intentional time suck. I think what happens is a lot of people find ways to game the system. Look, when I did security awareness training, my controls, the way I worded them, didn't require people to take any training whatsoever. The phishing emails themselves satisfied it completely.I worded that into my control framework. I still held the trainings, they still made people take them seriously. And then if we have a—you know, if somebody got phished horrifically, and let's say wired $2 million to Hong Kong—you know who I'm talking about, all right, person who might is probably not listening to this, thankfully—but [laugh] she did. And I know she didn't complete my awareness training. I know she never took any of it.She also wired $2 million to Hong Kong. Well, we never got that money back. But we sure did spend a lot of executive time trying to. I spent a lot of time on the phone, getting passed around from department to department at the FBI. Obviously, the FBI couldn't help us.It was wired from Mexico to Hong Kong. Like the FBI doesn't have anything to do with it. You know, bless them for taking their time to humor me because I needed to humor my CEO. But, you know, I use those awareness training things as a way to enforce the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct requiring disciplinary action for people who didn't follow the security awareness training.If you had taken the 15 minutes of awareness training that I had asked people to do—I mean, I told them to do it; it was the Code of Conduct; they had to—then there would be no disciplinary action for accidentally wiring that money. But people are pretty darn diligent on not doing things like that. It's just a select few that seems to be the ones that get repeatedly—Corey: And then you have the group conversations. One person screws something up and then you wind up with the emails to everyone. And then you have the people who are basically doing the right thing thinking they're being singled out. And—ugh, management is hard, people is hard, but it feels like a lot of these things could be a lot less hard.Jack: You know, I don't think management is hard. I think management is about empathy. And management is really about just positive reinforce—you know what management is? This is going to sound real pretentious. Management's kind of like raising a kid, you know? You want to have a really well-adjusted kid? Every time that kid says, “Hey, Dad,” answer. [crosstalk 00:30:28]—Corey: Yeah, that's a good—that's a good approach.Jack: I mean, just be there. Be clear, consistent, let them know what to expect. People loved my security program at the places that I've implemented it because it was very clear, it was concise, it was easy to understand, and I was very approachable. If anybody had a security concern and they came to me about it, they would [laugh] not get any shame. They certainly wouldn't get ignored.I don't care if they were reporting the same email I had had reported to me 50 times that day. I would personally thank them. And, you know what I learned? I learned that from raising a kid, you know? It was interesting because it was like, the kid I was raising, when he would ask me a question, I would give him the same answer every time in the same tone. He'd be like, “Hey, Jack, can I have a piece of candy?” Like, “No, your mom says you can't have any candy today.” They'd be like, “Oh, okay.” “Can I have a piece of candy?” And I would be like, “No, your mom says you can't have any candy today.” “Can I have a piece of candy, Jack?” I said, “No. Your mom says he can't have any candy.” And I'd just be like a broken record.And he immediately wouldn't ask me for a piece of candy six different times. And I realized the reason why he was asking me for a piece of candy six different times is because he would get a different response the sixth time or the third time or the second time. It was the inconsistency. Providing consistency and predictability in the workforce is key to management and it's key to keeping things safe and secure.Corey: I think there's a lot of truth to that. I really want to thank you for taking so much time out of your day to talk to me about think topics ranging from GPT and ethics to parenting. If people want to learn more, where's the best place to find you?Jack: I'm jack@jackroehrig.com, and I'm also jroehrig@uptycs.com. My last name is spelled—heh, no, I'm kidding. It's a J-A-C-K-R-O-E-H-R-I-G dot com. So yeah, hit me up. You will get a response from me.Corey: Excellent. And I will of course include links to that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.Jack: Likewise.Corey: This promoted guest episode has been brought to us by our friends at Uptycs, featuring Jack Roehrig, Technology Evangelist at same. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry comment ghostwritten for you by ChatGPT so it has absolutely no content worth reading.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

Adrian Alfieri is the founder & CEO of Verbatim, a B2B content studio that has helped 100+ startups like OpenStore, Polywork, Goody, Tydo, Parker, Disco and Settle launch & scale their content functions. He is also the creator of The Proof as well as an advisor and angel investor in early-stage startups and venture funds.