Podcasts about westminster confession

In this episode, Camden Bucey sits down with Carlton Wynne and Marc Harrington at the Reformation and Worship Conference hosted by Midway PCA. Together they reflect on the beauty and theological significance of Reformed worship—where form and content work together to glorify God. The conversation explores how music shapes the soul, why pastors must think theologically about song selection, and how the unity and maturity of the church depend on maintaining the fixed truth of Scripture. From discussions of Scott Aniol's lecture on music that accords with sound doctrine to Wynne's reflections on doctrinal immutability, the episode reminds us that worship is not mere performance—it's the embodied response of the redeemed to the unchanging God. The conversation concludes with reflections on confessional fidelity, the training of pastors, and the importance of cultivating a love for Reformed unity grounded in truth. Chapters 00:07 Introduction 02:47 Introduction to the Reformation and Worship Conference 03:58 The Conference's Heritage, Accessibility, and Scholarship 05:09 The Worship at the Conference (Hymns and Psalms) 06:32 A Variety of Conference Sessions and Speakers 07:21 Discussion of Scott Aniol's Session on Music and Worship 08:14 Music that Accords with Sound Doctrine (Titus 2) 11:39 The Importance of Tune and Singability in Hymns 14:46 The Pastor's Role in Music and the Worship Service as a Cohesive Unit 20:13 Carlton Wynne's Breakout: Why the Church Must Maintain Fixed Truth 22:31 Why Truth Must Be Maintained (Confessionalism) 24:06 The Connection Between Fixed Truth and Faithful Worship 27:01 The Fixed Self in Christ and Eternal Life 30:00 Council from Dr. Godfrey: Be Reformed Unashamedly 31:07 Teaching the Westminster Standards to New Members 33:55 Using Confessions to Filter Music for Worship 37:34 Organizing Theology around the Westminster Confession of Faith 41:00 Teaching Redemption Accomplished vs. Redemption Applied 43:40 The Importance of the Regulative Principle of Worship 47:22 Conclusion

In this profound episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb delve deeply into the Parable of the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30), exploring its implications for Christian assurance. Building on their previous discussion, they examine how this parable speaks to the mixed nature of the visible church, the sovereignty of Christ over His kingdom, and most significantly, the doctrine of assurance. Through careful theological reflection, the hosts unpack how true believers can find solid ground for assurance not in their own works or fruit-checking, but in the promises of Christ and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. This episode offers both encouragement for those struggling with doubts and a sobering challenge to those resting in false assurance. Key Takeaways The Parable of the Tares teaches that the visible church will be mixed until the final judgment, containing both true believers (wheat) and false professors (tares) who may appear outwardly similar. True assurance is not based primarily on good works but on the promises of Christ, the inward testimony of the Holy Spirit, and the evidences of grace in our lives. False assurance is a real danger, as many who think they belong to Christ will discover at the final judgment that they never truly knew Him. The Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18) provides a helpful framework for understanding biblical assurance as the proper possession of every Christian. Christ's role as the divine Master of the house (the world) and Lord of the angels is subtly yet powerfully affirmed in this parable, grounding our assurance in His sovereignty. Good works are the fruit of assurance, not its cause—when we are secure in our salvation, we are freed to serve Christ joyfully rather than anxiously trying to earn assurance. The final judgment will bring perfect clarity, revealing what was hidden and separating the wheat from the tares with divine precision that humans cannot achieve now. The Doctrine of Assurance: Reformed Understanding The Reformed tradition has always emphasized that believers can and should have assurance of their salvation—a conviction recovered during the Reformation in contrast to Rome's teaching. As Tony noted when reading from the Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18), this assurance is "not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation." This assurance rests on three pillars: the promises of God in Scripture, the inward evidence of grace, and the testimony of the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit. What makes this understanding particularly comforting is that it shifts the foundation of assurance away from our performance to God's faithfulness. While self-examination has its place, the Reformed understanding recognizes that looking too intensely at our own hearts and works can lead either to despair or to false confidence. Instead, we're directed to look primarily to Christ and His finished work, finding in Him the anchor for our souls. The Problem of False Assurance One of the most sobering aspects of the Parable of the Tares is its implicit warning about false assurance. Just as the tares resemble wheat until maturity reveals their true nature, many professing Christians may outwardly appear to belong to Christ while inwardly remaining unregenerate. As Jesse observed, "The tares typically live under false assurance. They may attend church, confess belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical, it's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual." This echoes Jesus' warning in Matthew 7 that many will say to Him, "Lord, Lord," but will hear the devastating response, "I never knew you." The parable teaches us that this self-deception is not always conscious hypocrisy but often the result of spiritual blindness. As Jesse noted, referencing Romans 1, Ephesians 4, and 1 Corinthians 2, the unregenerate are "not merely ignorant, they're blinded... to the spiritual truth by nature and by Satan." This understanding should prompt humble self-examination while simultaneously driving us to depend not on our own discernment but on Christ's perfect knowledge and saving work. Memorable Quotes "Assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions." - Thomas Brooks, quoted by Jesse Schwamb "When we are confessing, repenting, seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ, then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance." - Jesse Schwamb "The sacrifice and the service that a husband performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him, that is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it." - Tony Arsenal on how good works flow from assurance rather than cause it Resources Mentioned Scripture: Matthew 13:24-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 1, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 2, 2 Timothy 3:5 Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 18 "Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation" Thomas Brooks: "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices" YouTube Channel: My Wild Backyard Khan Academy: Educational resource recommended during "Affirmations and Denials" segment Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 466 of the Reform the Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. We're going back to the farm again. Can't stop. Won't stop. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. [00:01:02] Discussion on the Parable of the Tears Tony Arsenal: The last week's discussion was interesting and I think, um, it's gonna be nice to sort of round it out and talk about some things you might not think about, uh, when you first read this parable. So I'm, I'm pretty excited. Jesse Schwamb: Oh, what a tease that is. So if you're wondering what Tony's talking about, we're hanging out. In Matthew 13, we are just really enjoying these teachings of Jesus. And they are shocking and they're challenging, and they're encouraging, and they're awesome, of course. And so we're gonna be finishing out the Parable of the Tears and you need to go back and listen to the previous conversation. This, this is all set up because we have some unfinished business. We didn't talk about the eschatological implications. We have this really big this, this matza ball hanging over us. So to speak, which was the, do the TAs in this parable even know that they are tarry, that they are the TAs? And so in this parable, the disciples learn that the kingdom itself, God's kingdom, the kingdom that Jesus is enumerating and explaining and bringing into being, they are learning that it's gonna be mixed in character. So that's correcting this expectation that the kingdom would be perfectly pure and would have, would evolve righteous rule over all of the unrighteous world. And so it's a little bit shocking that Jesus says, listen, they're gonna be. Tears within the wheats that is in the world, the seed that God himself, the sun has planted and that they're gonna exist side by side for a long time. And so we, they have to wait patiently and give ourselves to building up the wheats as the sons of the kingdom and be careful in their judgment, not to harm those who are believers. We covered a lot of that last week, but left so much unsaid we couldn't even fit it in. This is gonna be jam packed, so I'm gonna stop giving the tees instead start moving us into affirmations and denials. [00:02:45] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: It's of course that time in our conversation where we either affirm with something really like or we think is undervalued or we deny against something that we don't really like or is a little overvalued. So as I usually say to you, Tony, what have you got for us? [00:03:00] YouTube Channel Recommendation: My Wild Backyard Tony Arsenal: I am affirming a YouTube channel. Um, I, I think the algorithm goes through these cycles where it wants me to learn about bugs and things because I get Okay, like videos about bugs. And so I'm, I'm interested. There's been this, uh, channel that's been coming up on my algorithm lately called My Wild Backyard, and it, it's a guy, he's like an entomologist. He seems like a, a like a legit academic, but what he does is he basically goes through and he talks about different bugs, creepy crawlies, looks at like snakes, all that kinds of stuff. It seems like his wheelhouse is the stuff that can kill you or hurt you pretty bad. Nice. But, um, it's interesting and it's. It's good educational content. It's, you know, it's not sensationalized, it's not, uh, it's not dramatized. Um, it's very real. There's occasionally an instance where he, he's not, sometimes he will intentionally get bit or stung by an, uh, by an animal to show you what it does. So he can experience and explain what he's experiencing. And sometimes he just accidentally gets bit or stung. And so those are some of the most interesting ones. So like, for example, just looking at his, his channel, his most recent, um, his most recent video is called The most venomous Desert Creatures in the US ranked the one previous was. The world's most terrifying arachni isn't a spider. And then previous to that was what happens if a giant centipede bites you? So it's interesting stuff. If you are one of those people that likes bugs and likes creepy crawlies and things, um, this is definitely the channel for you if you're not one of those people. I actually think this probably is the channel for you too. 'cause it kind of demystifies a lot of this stuff. Um. You know, for example, he, he will commonly point out that, um, spiders don't wanna bite you and they just wanna leave you alone. And, and as long as you leave them alone, even, even something like a black widow, which people are terrified of, and I think, right, rightfully so. I mean, they can be scary. Those can be scary bites. He'll, he'll handle those, no problem. And as long as he's not like putting downward pressure on them, uh, they have no interest in biting, they really just want to get away. So even seeing that kind of stuff, I think can help demystify and, and sort of, uh, make it a little bit easier. So my Wild Backyard, he can find it on YouTube. Um, he's safe for kids. He's not, he's not cussing even. I mean, I think occasionally when he gets bit on accident, you might, you know, you might have a beep here or there, but, um, he's not, he's not regularly swearing or things like that. And he does a pretty good job of adding that stuff out. Jesse Schwamb: What a great title for that, isn't it? This, yeah. Confluence of your backyard. That space that seems domesticated is also stealing its own. Right. Wild. And there's a be Yeah. Both those things coming together. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's interesting stuff and it's really good. I mean, it's really compelling videography. He does a good job of taking good photos. You'll see insects that you usually won't see, or spiders you usually won't see. Um, so yeah, it's cool. Check it out. [00:05:51] Discussion on Spiders and Creepy Crawlies Jesse Schwamb: What are you, uh, yeah, I myself would like to become more comfortable with the arachni variety. If only be, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's a weird creature, so my instinct is to be like, kill them all. And then if I can't find them and I know they're around, then we just burn everything that we own. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: They just can't sink into the ground fast enough. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. There's something about the way they move, like their, their bodies don't move the way you would anticipate them to. Right. And it freaks, it just weirds out human sensibilities, so. Right. Jesse Schwamb: They're also like, I find them to be very surprising. Often. It's not kind of a, a very like, kind of measured welcome into your life. It's like you just go to get in the shower and there's a giant spider. Yeah. Oh yeah. Although I guess that spider, he's, he or she's probably like, whoa, where'd you come from? You know, like, yeah. He's like, I was just taking a Tony Arsenal: shower. You know what's interesting? Um, I saw another video was on a different channel, um, like common jumping spiders. Yeah. Which there are like hundreds of species of common jumping spiders. Jesse Schwamb: True. Tony Arsenal: Um, but spiders and jumping spiders specifically, actually you can form almost like a pet bond with, so like the, that jumping spider that like lives in your house and sees you every day. He, he probably knows who you are and is like, comfortable with you. And they've done studies that like you can actually domesticate jumping spiders, so they're not as foreign and alien as you might think. Although they certainly do look a little bit strange and weird. And the way their bodies move is almost designed to weird out people like it just the skinness, like the way their legs skitter and move it, it just is, it's, it triggers something very primal in us to That's wild. Be weirded out by it. Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: It's wild. I love it. That's a good, a affirmation. I'm definitely gonna check that out. I, any, anything? I really want to know what the, what like the terrifying arachni is. That's not a spider. Tony Arsenal: It's a, well, it's called a camel spider, but it's not really a spider. Oh, Jesse Schwamb: I know what you're talking about. That is kind of terrifying. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. They, they actually don't have any venom. Um, yeah. Check out the video. I mean, it, it was a good video. Um, but yeah, they're freaky looking and, um, but even that, like he was handling it No problem. Yeah. Like it wasn't, it wasn't aggressive with him once Wow. Once it figured out it wasn't, he wasn't trying to hurt him and, and that it couldn't eat him. Um, it, it just sort of like hung out until he let it go. So Jesse Schwamb: yeah, just be careful if you watch it one before bed or while in bed. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Probably not right before bed. Yeah. You'll, you'll get the creepy crawlies all night. Jesse Schwamb: I love it. But there's something somewhat. Like invigorating about that isn't there? Like it's, it's kind of a natural, just like kind of holy respect for the world that God has created, that they're these features that are so different, so wild, so interesting and a little bit frightening, but in the sense that we just draw off from them because they're so different than what we are. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And you know, again, there's places you would be happy to see them, but maybe your bathtub or like shooting out, like, you know, like where you live, the jumping spiders are legit and they will just pop out on you, you know? Yeah. You're just doing your own thing and then all of a sudden they're popping out. I think part of that is just that what, what gets me is like them just, you know, like I remember in my basement here, once one popped out from a rafter and then I was holding, happened to be holding up broom. My instinct just naturally was to hit it. I hit it with the broom and it went across the room and fell on an empty box and sounded like a silver dollar had hit the box. Like it was just a massive, I mean, again, like, it's like fish stories, like it's a massive spider. It was a big spider. Yeah. But you just don't expect to, to see that kind of thing. Or maybe, maybe I should, but anything that moves in that way, and again, like centipedes, man, forget it. We have those too, like in our basement. Like the long ones. Oh yeah. Yeah. That thing will come like squiggling down the wall at you, like eye level and you just wanna run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, you do run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. It's not that you want to, it's that usually you do. I don't mean like you specifically, although probably you specifically. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's, yeah, you just react. Well, j Jesse enough freaking out. I mean, we're getting close to Halloween, so I suppose it's appropriate, but, uh, enough of that. What are you affirming or denying today? Jesse Schwamb: Once again, without like any coordination, mine is not unlike yours. I know you and I, we talk about the world in which we live, which God has created, and this lovely command, this ammunition to take dominion over that. And one of the things I appreciate about our conversations is I think you and I often have maybe not like a novel. Kinda perspective on that, but one that I don't hear talked about often and that is this idea of taking dominion over what it is possible to know and to appropriate, and then to apply onto wisdom. [00:10:27] Affirmation: Khan Academy Jesse Schwamb: And so my information is in that realm. It's another form of taking ownership of what's in the wild of knowledge that you can possess. And again, equal parts. What an amazing time to be alive. So I'm affirming with the website, Khan Academy, which I'm sure many are familiar with. And this website offers like. Thousands of hours. Uh, and materials of free instructional videos, practice exercises, quizzes, all these like really bespoke, personalized learning modules you can create for topics like math, science, computing, economics, history, art. I think it goes like even starting at like. Elementary age all the way up into like early college can help you study for things like the SAT, the LSAT AP courses, and I was revisiting it. I have an open account with them that I keep in love and I go back to it from time to time. And I was working on some stuff where I wanted to rehearse some knowledge in like the calculus space, do some things by hand, which I haven't done. And I was just like, I'm blown away at how good this stuff is. And it's all for free. I mean, you should donate if you. You get something from this because it's a nonprofit, but the fact that there are these amazing instructional videos out there that can help us get a better understanding of either things we already know and we can rehearse the knowledge or to learn something brand new essentially for free. But somebody's done all the hard work to curate a pedagogy for you. Honestly, this is incredible. So if you haven't looked at that website in a long time or maybe ever, and you might be thinking, what, what do I really wanna learn? Lemme tell you. There's a lot of interesting stuff there and it's so approachable and it's such a good website for teaching. And if you have children in particular, even if you're looking for help, either helping them with their own coursework or maybe to have like kind of a tutor on the side, this is so good. So I can't say enough good things recently about Khan Academy 'cause it's been so helpful to me and super fun to like just sit and have your own paced study and in the private and comfort of your own home or your desk at work or wherever it is that you need to learn it. To be able to have somebody teach you some things, to do a little practice exercises, and then to go on to the world and to apply the things you've learned. Ah, it's so good. Tony Arsenal: Nice. Yeah, I've, I've never done anything with Khan Academy. I'll have to check it out. There's, um, there's some skills of needing to brush up on, uh, at work that I am probably not gonna be able to find in my normal channels, so I'll have to see if there is anything going on there. Um, but yeah, that's, that's good stuff. And it's free. Love freestyle. It's, and of course, like Jesse Schwamb: things like this are legion. So whatever it is, whatever your discipline or your field of study or work is, there's probably something out there and, uh, might, I humbly maybe encourage you to, if you use something like that and it's funded by donations, it's worth giving, I think, because again, it's just an amazing opportunity to take dominion over the knowledge that God has placed into the world and then to use it for something. I mean, I suppose even if all it is is you just wanna learn more about, like for me, I, I find like the subjects of, of math and science, like just endlessly fascinating and like the computing section I was looking at, I, I don't know much about like programming per se, but there is such a beauty. Like these underlying principles, like the, the organization of the world and the first level principles of like physics for instance, are just like baffling in the most glorious kind of way. How they all come together. So having somebody like teach you at a very like simplistic level, but allow you to grasp those concepts makes you just appreciate it leads me to doxology a lot when I see these things. So in a weird way, it ends up becoming maybe not a weird way and the right way. It becomes worship as often as I'm sitting at my desk and working through like a practice problem on like, you know, partial differential equation or, or derivatives is what I was working on today. And ah, it's just so good. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one. I, it's not be super nerdy, but you, are you ever like at your desk studying something? And it might not be like theological per se, but you just have a moment where you're overcome with some kind of worship. Do you know what I'm talking about? Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, um, this we're the nerdiest people on the planet, but let's Jesse Schwamb: do it. Um, Tony Arsenal: when I find a really fun, interesting. Uh, Excel formula and I can get it to work right. Uh, and it, and then it just like everything unlocks. Like, I feel like I've unlocked all the knowledge in the universe. Um, but yeah, I hear you like the, the Excel thing is, is interesting to me because, like, math is just the description. Like it's just the fabric of reality is just the way we describe reality. But the fact that we can do basically just take math and do all these amazing things with it, uh, in a spreadsheet is really, uh, drives me to praise. Like I said, that's super nerdy, but it is. Oh, you're speaking my language. Jesse Schwamb: I, we have never understood each other better than just this moment right now. We, we had some real talk and, uh, a real moment. Tony Arsenal: Yes. Welcome to the Reformed math cast. Jesse Schwamb: We're so glad that you're here. Tony Arsenal: Yes. We're not gonna do any one plus one plus one equals one kinds of heretical math in, up in here. Jesse Schwamb: No. Tony Arsenal: Well, Jesse, I have a feeling that, excuse me. Wow. Jesse Schwamb: We don't edit anything out. Listen, I'm choked up too. It's it, listen, love ones just so emotional. The moment Tony and I are having it. We're gonna try our best right now to pivot to go into this text, but it's, it's tough because we were just really having something, something special. You got, you got to see there. But thank you for trying to Tony Arsenal: cover for me for that big cough. Jesse Schwamb: This is like presuppositional editing. You know, we don't actually do anything in post. It's not ex anti editing. It's, it's literally presuppositional. [00:15:52] Theological Discussion on Assurance Jesse Schwamb: But to that end, we are in Matthew 13. This is the main course. This is the reason why we're here. There's lots of reasons to worship, and one of them is to come before and admire and love our God who has given us his specific revelation and this incredible teaching of his son. And that's why we're hanging out in Matthew 13. So let me read, because we have just a couple of really sentences here, this really short parable and that way it'll catch us up and then we can just launch right back into we're, we're basically like, we're already in the rocket. Like we're in the stratosphere. We're, we're taking it all the way now. So this is Matthew chapter 13. Come hang out here. It's in the 24th verse. And this is what we find written for us. This is the word of the Lord. He put another parable before them saying. The Kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the weeds and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also, and the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? He said to them, an enemy has done this. So the servant said to him, then, do you want us to go and gather them? But he said, no less than gathering the weeds, you root up the weed along with them. Let both grow until the harvest. And at harvest time, I will tell the reapers, gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but to gather the wheat into my barn. Tony Arsenal: That's good stuff. That's good stuff. Um, you know, we, we covered most of. I don't know, what do you wanna call it? The first order reading of the parable last week. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: On one level, the parable, uh, as Christ explains it, uh, a little bit down further in the chapter is extremely straightforward. It's almost out, it's almost an allegory. Each, each element of the parable has a, a, a figure that it's representing. And the main purpose of the story is that the world and specifically the church, um, is going to be a mixed body until the last days, until the end of time. And so there's, there's the Sons of God or the Sons of the Kingdom, uh, and then there's the sons of the evil one. And we talked a lot about how. These two figures in the parable, the, the, the weeds or the tears? Um, tears is a better word because it's a specific kind of, uh, specific kind of weed that looks very much like wheat at its immature stages. Right. And you can't actually discern the difference readily, uh, until the weed and the wheat has grown up next to each other. Um, and so, so part of the parable is that. The, the sons of the kingdom and the sons of the enemy, or the sons of the evil one, they don't look all that different in their early stages. And it's not until the sort of end culmination of their lives and the end culmination of things that they're able to be discerned and then therefore, um, the, the sons of the devil are, are reaped and they go off to their eternal judgment and the sons of the kingdom are, uh, are harvested and they go off to their eternal reward. What we wanted to talk about, and part of the reason that we split this into two episodes. Is that we sort of found ourselves spiraling or spiraling around a question about, uh, sort of about assurance, right? And false assurance, true assurance. And there is an eschatological element to this parable that I, I think we probably should at least touch on as we we go through it. Um, but I wanted to just read, um, it's been a little while since we've read the Westminster Confession on the show. So I wanted to read a little bit from the Westminster Confession. Um, this is from chapter 18, which is called of assurance of grace and salvation. This is sort of the answer to Jesse's question. Do the, do the tears know their tears or, or could they possibly think that their wheat? So this is, uh, section one of chapter eight. It says, although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presuppositions or presumptions of being in favor with God in the state of salvation. Which hope of their shall perish yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed. And so we, in the reform tradition at least, which is where we find ourselves in the reform tradition, um, we would affirm that people can. Deceive themselves into believing that they're in proper relation with God. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Tony Arsenal: And so it's not the case that, uh, that the weeds always know they're weeds or think they're weeds. It's not even the case. And this was part of the parable. It's not even the case that the weeds can be easily distinguished even by themselves from, uh, from the weeds. So there is this call, uh, and this is a biblical call. There's a call to seek out assurance and to lay claim to it. That I think is, is worth talking about. But it's not as straightforward as simple proposition as like, yeah, I'm confident. Like it's not just like, right, it's not just mustering up confidence. There's more to it than that. So that's what I wanted to start with, with this parable is just maybe talking through that assurance. 'cause I, I would hate for us to go through this parable. And sort of leave people with maybe you're a weed and you don't know it. 'cause that's not right. That's not the biblical picture of assurance. Um, that's the, that's the Roman Catholic picture of assurance that like, yeah, there's no such thing as assurance and people might not realize, but assurance of salvation is actually one of the, one of the primary things that was recovered particularly by the Reformed in the Reformation. Um, and so I think we, we often sort of overlook it as maybe a secondary thing. Um, but it really is a significant doctrine, a significant feature of reformed theology. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I'm glad you said that because it is a, is a clear reminder. It's a clearing call as the performers put forth that it is. Under like the purview of the Christian to be able to claim the assurance by the blood of Christ in the application of the Holy Spirit in a way that's like fully orbed and fully stopped. So you can contrast that with, and really what was coming outta Catholicism or Rome at the time. And I was just speaking with a dear brother this past week who. Grew up in the Catholic church and he was recounting how his entire religious experience, even his entire relationship, if we can call it that in a kind of colloquial sense with God, was built around this sense of deep-seated guilt and lack of true performance, such that like assurance always seemed like this really vague concept that was never really fully manifested in anything that he did. Even while the church was saying, if you do these things, if you perform this way, if you ensure that you're taking care of your immortal sins and that you're seeking confession for all the venial stuff as well, that somehow you'll be made right, or sufficiently right. But if not, don't worry about it. There's always purgatory, but there'd be some earning that you'd have to accomplish there. Everywhere along the way. He just felt beaten down. So contrasting that with what we have here. I don't believe, as you're saying, Tony, that's Jesus' intention here to somehow beat up the sheep. I, I think it is, to correct something of what's being said about the world in which we live, but it's at the same time to say that there are some that are the TAs is to say there are some that are the children of God, right? That there are some that are fully crisply, clearly identified and securely resting in that identity without any kind of nervous or anxious energy that it might fall out of that state with God that, that in fact their identity is secure. And as I've been thinking about this this week, I, I'm totally with you because I think part of this just falls, the warning here is there's a little bit of the adventures in Romans one here that's waiting for us, that I like what you said about this idea of, of self deception and maybe like a. Subpart to this question would be, are the, are the terrors always nefarious in their lack of understanding? So we might say there's some that are purposely disruptive, that the enemy himself is, is promulgating or trying to bring forward his destruction, his chaos by way of these tears. But are, are there even a subgroup or another group, uh, co-terminus group or, you know, one in the same hierarchy where there's just a lot of self deception? I, I think that's probably where I fall in terms of just trying to explain that. Yes, I think it was present here is a real quantity, a real identity where they're self-deceived. Imagining themselves to be part of God's people, yet lacking that true saving faith. And this just, I'm gonna go in a couple places where I think everybody would expect in the scriptures, if we go to like Ephesians four, they're darkened and they're understanding alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them. And one Corinthians, when Paul writes, the natural person does not accept the things of the spirit of God, and he's not able to understand them because they're spiritually discerned. And then the book that follows the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. And of course then like everything in Romans one, so I bring all that up because E, even at the end, we're gonna get there, the Es, this eschatological reality when you know God is separating out the sheep and the goats. Still, we find this kind of same trope happening there. But the unregenerate, what I'm reading from this. Importantly is that the unregenerate, they're not merely ignorant, they're blinded, as we all were on point to the spiritual truth. Yeah. By nature and by Satan. That that is also his jam. He loves to blind, to lie, to kill, steal, and destroy. So thus, even if they're outwardly belonging to the church, they're outwardly belonging to the world. They're outwardly belonging to some kind of profession. They cannot perceive the reality of their lost condition apart from divine illumination. Who can, that might be stating the obvious, but I think that's like what we're getting after here. I I, I don't know if there's like any kind of like conspiracy here. It's simply that that is the natural state of affairs. So why wouldn't we expect that to be reflected again in the world and that side by side, we're gonna find that shoulder to shoulder. We are, there are the children of God, and there are those that remain blind and ignorant to the truth. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, it, again, I, I, um, I don't know why I'm surprised. Uh, I certainly shouldn't be surprised. Um. But Matthew is like a masterful storyteller Yeah. Here, right. He's a masterful, um, editor and narrator. Um, and he's, he's put together here, of course, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Um, and, and there's some good reason to think in the text we're not gonna get too, in the nitty gritty here, there's some good reason to think in the text that Christ actually delivered these parables as a set as well. So it's not just, it's not just Matthew coating these, although it could be. Um, but it, it seems like these were all delivered probably as like a common set of parables. And the reason I say that is because when we start to look at this parable and the one we previously went through, the parable of the soils, um, or the parable of the sower. Um, what we see is the answer to your question of why do some people, you know, why are some people deceived? Well, yes, there is secondary causation. The devil deceives them. They blind themselves. They, you know, suppress the, the, the truth and right unrighteousness. But on a, on a primary causation level, um, God is the one who is identi, is, is identifying who will be the sons of the, you know, devil and the sons of the kingdom. Mm-hmm. This is another, and yet another example of election is that the, the good sower sowed good seed, and the good seed was the elect and the enemy. Although in God's sovereignty, God is the one who determines this. The enemy is the one who sows the reprobate. Right? So all, all men. Star, and this is, I, I guess I didn't really intend to go here, but this is good evidence in my mind for, um, infra laps, Arianism versus super laps. Arianism, right infra laps, arianism or sub lapse. Arianism would say that God decrees, uh, to permit the fall and then he decrees to redeem some out of the fall, right? Logically speaking, not temporally speaking. Super laps. Arianism, which is the minority. It's the smaller portion of, of the historic tradition, although modern times, I think it's a little bit louder and a little bit more vocal, but super relapses. Arianism would argue that God, um, decrees. Sort of the, the decree of election and reprobation is logically prior to the decree of the fall. And so in, in that former or in the super laps area model, the fall becomes a means by which the reprobate are justly condemned. Not, um, not the cause of their condemnation, but a way to sort of justify the fact that they will be separated from God, right? Because of their reprobate. [00:28:36] Exploring the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares Tony Arsenal: I know that there's, there's probably some super lab streams that would nuance that differently and some that are probably just screaming straw man, uh, in a coffee shop somewhere and, and people are thinking you're crazy. Um, but by and large, that's actually a rel, a relatively accepted, um, explanation of it. There are certainly potential problems with, uh, sub, sub lapse agonism as well. But in this, in this parable, what we see is the people who are, um, who are elect, are sowed into the field and the people who are reprobate are also sowed into the field. And so God saves the people who are sewed into the field that are, they elect, he saves them out of this now mixed world by waiting and allowing them to grow up next to the reprobate, um, in sort of this mixed world setting. And then he redeems them out of that. Um, and, and, and so we have to sort of remember. Although it is a pretty strict, sort of allegorical type of parable, it's still a parable. So we shouldn't, we shouldn't always draw like direct one-to-one comparisons here. It's making a theological point, but, um, but it's important for us to re remember that, that it is ultimately, it is God who determines who is the elected and who is not. But it's, it's our sin. It's the devil deceiving us. It's the secondary causes that are responsible for the sons of the devil, right? It, the, the men come to the, to the sower and say, who is done this? He says it was an enemy. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Right. Tony Arsenal: He doesn't say like, well, actually I put the seed there and so, you know, I'm, I, it's not an equal distribution. He's not sowing good seed and bad seed. He sows the good seed and the devil sows the bad seed. [00:30:24] Theological Implications and Assurance Tony Arsenal: Um, and, and that's a, I think that's an important theological point to make. And as far as assurance goes. We, we can't depend on our ability to perceive or sort of like discern election in a raw sense, right? We have to observe certain kinds of realities around us. Um, and, and primarily we have to depend on the mercy and, and saving faith that God gives us. That's right. Um, you know, our, our assurance of faith does not primarily come from fruit checking. Um, we have to do that. It's important, we're commanded to do it, and it serves as an important secondary evidence. But a, a, a person who wants to find assurance. Of salvation should first and foremost look to the promises of Christ and then depend on them. Um, and, and so that's, I think all of that's kind of wrapped up into this parable. It's, it's, it's amazing to me that we're only like two parables in, and we're already, you know, we're already talking about super lapse arianism and sub lapse arianism, and it's, it's amazing. I, I love this. I'm loving this series so far, and we're barely scratching the surface. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's all there. I think you're right to call that out. It strikes me, like, as you were speaking, it really just hit me higher that I think you're right. Really the foundation on this, like the hidden foundation is assurance and it's that assurance which splits the groups, or at least divides them, or it gives us, again, like the distinct, kind, discrete compartments or components of each of them. So. Again, I think it's help saying, 'cause we wanna be encouraging. That's, that's our whole point here is when the Apostle Peter says, be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and choosing of you. That herein we have the scripture saying to us, time and time again, be sure of what God has done in your life. Be confident in that very thing. And so if assurance is, as we're saying, that's the argument hypothesis we're making. That's the critical thing here. [00:32:11] False Assurance and True Faith Jesse Schwamb: Then the division between the children of God and the children of the devil is false versus true assurance. So the tears, I think what we're saying here, basically they typically live under false asserts. They may attend church, confess, belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical. It's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual. And of course, like just a few chapters before this, we hope those famous verses where Jesus himself drops the bomb and says, listen, many of you, he's talking to the people, the, the disciples around him, the crowds that we're gathering and thronging all about. He says, many of you're gonna say to me, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy your name? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me. These are not people who knew they were false, they thought they belonged to Christ. Their shock on judgment day is gonna reveal this profound self-deception. And that self-deception is wrapped up in a false type of assurance, a false righteousness. So I think one of the things that we can really come to terms with and grab a hold of is the fact that when we are. Confessing, repenting seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ. Then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally, Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance. [00:33:38] Historical Perspectives on Assurance Jesse Schwamb: You know, I was reading this week from Thomas Brooks and did incidentally come across this, a quote, an assurance and reminded me of this passage, and here's what he writes. You know, of course he's writing in like 16 hundreds, like mid 16 hundreds. It's wild, of course, but we shouldn't be surprised that what you're about to hear sounds like it could have been written today for us. In this conversation, but, uh, he writes, assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions. However, most Christians live between fears and hopes and hang, as it were, between heaven and hell. Sometimes they hope that their state is good. At other times they fear that their state is bad. Now they hope that all is well and that it shall go well. Well with them forever. Then they fear that they shall perish by the hand of such corruption or by the prevalency of such and such temptation. They're like a ship and a storm tossed here and there, and. I think that he's right about that. And I think the challenge there is to get away from that. I love where it starts, where he says, what wonderful turn of phrase assurance is the believer's arc or Noah, like, you know, we're sitting and the commotion, the destructions, the commotion, the confusions of all the world. That's why to get this right, to be encouraged by this passage, to be challenged by it is so critical because we're all looking for that arc. We all want to know that God has in fact arrested us so completely that no matter what befalls us, that everything, as we talked about before, all of our, all of the world, in fact is subservient to our salvation. But that's a real thing that cannot be snatched away from us because God has ordained it and intended it, built it, created it, and brought it to pass. And so I think that's all like in this passage, it's all the thing that's being called us to. So. I, I don't want us to get like too hung up. It's a good question, I think to ask and answer like we were trying to talk about here, but you're right. If we focus too much just on the like, let's gaff for these tears. Who are they? Like let's people's, like Readers Digest in People's magazine these tears. Like who are they? Do we have a list of them? Who do we think they are? How could it be me? Is it really me? Am I, am I anxious about that? Really what we should be saying is following what Peter calls us to do that is to be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and his choosing. So even there like our emphasis and focus, isn't it like you're saying Tony about like, let me do some fruit inventory. I got like a lot of good bananas. I got a lot of ripe pears. Like, look at the tree. This, this is good. Even there, the emphasis is to turn our eyes on Jesus, as it were, and to make certain about his work, his calling and his choosing of us. And I think when we do that, we're falling down in worship and in yielding and submission to him, rightfully acknowledging that the righteousness of Christ is the one that is always in every way alien to us and imputed. And that is what makes us sons and daughters of God, that good seed sown by Jesus himself. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna read, I wanna um, round out a few more paragraphs here out of the Westminster confession because I do think, you know, when we even talk about assurance, we're not even always all saying the exact same thing. And I think that's important because when we talk about assurance of faith, we need to be understanding that this is the rightful, not only the rightful possession of all Christians, but it's the rightful responsibility of all Christians to seek it. So here's, here's section two of that same chapter. It says, this certainty referring to assurance. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a, a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, the testimony of the spirit of adoption, witnessing with our hearts that we are the children of God, which spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption. So. One of the, the things that I think is, is important here is people read this and say the inward evidences of those graces unto which these promises are made. They read that and they think that it's referring to like good work and like spiritual renewal, but it's, it's not, it's the inward evidence of those graces unto which of the promises are made. So it's this inner, inner renewal. It's the spirit testifying to our spirit. And then, um, chapter, uh, section three here, it says. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it, yet being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given of God. He may without extraordinary revelation there, right there is response to Roman Catholicism in the right use of ordinary means at attain there unto. And therefore, it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence, to make his calling and election. Sure. And thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and in joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience. The proper fruits of this assurance so far is it from inclining men to looseness? Right. [00:38:53] The Role of Good Works in Assurance Tony Arsenal: So we often hear and and I, I think there are good, um, there are good reformed Christians that put. The emphasis of assurance on, or they, they put an overemphasis, in my opinion, on how good works function within our assurance. Right. They, they often will ask us to look to our good fruit as sort of, not the grounding, but as a strong evidence. But at least in terms of the confession here, the cheerfulness in the duties of obedience is the fruit of assurance. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Not Tony Arsenal: the cause or grounding of assurance. So rather than, this is what this last line says. It says so far, is it from inclining? Mental looseness assurance should drive us to obedience and fruitfulness in Christ. And so yes, it is in a certain sense an evidence because if that fruitfulness and obedience is absent from our lives, there's a good reason for us to question whether this infallible assurance is present in our lives. But the assurance is what drives us to this obedience. Um. You know, like, I think you could use the analogy of like a married couple. A married couple who is very secure in their relationship and in their, uh, love for one another and their faithfulness to each other is more likely to cheerfully serve and submit to each other and to respect each other and to sacrifice for each other than a couple that's maybe not so sure that the other person has their best interest in mind. That's or maybe isn't so sure that this thing is gonna work out. I think that's the same thing, like the sacrifice and the service that a husband, uh, performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him. That is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it. It's good evidence that that love exists, but it's not caused by it. And assurance here is the same kind of dynamic assurance is not. We can't assure ourselves of our salvation by doing good works. No matter how many good works you do, there are lots and lots of people who are not saved and who will not be saved, who do perfectly good works in appearance. Right. They have the, the outward appearance of godliness, but lack its power. Right, right. Out of right outta Paul, writing to Timothy there. Yes. So that's, that's important for us as we continue to parse all this out, is yes, the fruit is present. Yes. The wheat is to, is discernible from the tears by its final, fruitful status. Right? It grows up to be grain, which is fruitful rather than weeds and tears, which are only good to be burned, but it is not the fruit that causes it to be wheat. It's wheat that causes the fruit to grow. If, if it wasn't wheat, it wouldn't grow fruit, not because the fruit makes it grain, but because it is in fact wheat to start with. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Yeah, that's right on. So I think like by summation we're kind of saying. At least the answer to this question. You know, do the tears know that they're tears? Yes and no. Some do, some don't. I think, yes, there are some that are gonna be consciously hypocritical, willfully rejecting Christ while pretending for worldly gain. I think that's, that's certainly plain to see. And at the same time, do the tears know the tears? Sometimes? No. There's self deceived under spiritual blindness and they have some kind of false assurance. And this idea of, again, coming in repentance before God and seeking humbly to submit to him is I think one of those signs of that kind of true assurance, not a false assurance. And you already stole where I was thinking of Tony by going to Second Timothy again. Thomas Brooks in precious remedies against Saint's device is one of like the best. Books ever. I know that he's really outspoken. He loves to harp on the fact that one of Satan's most effective snares is to make men and women content with a form of godliness without its power. Yeah. And that's often what we're talking about here, I think, is that Satan loves to fish in the shallow waters a profession. And really that can happen in any kind of church or religious culture, that there is this shallowness where that loves religious appearance, prayer, knowledge fellowship, but not the Christ behind them. And so whether we're looking to somebody like Brooks or Jonathan Edwards and we're trying to parse out what are our true affections, not in a way again, that somehow leans well, I feel enough, then somehow that justifies, not inwardly, but again, definitely trying to understand our conviction for conversion tears. For repentance that. Really what we're after is not like just the blessings of Christ, but Christ himself, which I think really leads us to this eschatological perspective then to round all everything out because you know, we talked about before, there's an old phrase, it's like everywhere. A lot of people talk in heaven. Not everybody's going there. And so this idea of like, people will talk about be so great to be there and it's sometimes this, the heaven that they speak of is like absent Christ, you know, as if like, if Christ wasn't there, at least in their perspective, it still wouldn't be half bad. And so I think that does lead us to understand what is this in gathering? What is this? You know, bringing everything into the barn and burning everything else up. And like you just said, if at the beginning you cannot tell the injurious weed aside from that beautiful kernel of wheat that's coming up, but if in the end you can see what's happening in the end, then that brings us all to consummation. What does it mean in this parable? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:44:19] Eschatological Judgment and Assurance Tony Arsenal: And, and I think this actually sort of forces us to grapple a little bit with, with another sort of persnickety feature of this parable that, that I think, I think personally sometimes gets overlooked is we are very quick to talk about this parable to be about the church. And it is. Right. And, and there's reasons to talk like that. But when Christ explains the parable, he doesn't say the field is the church. He says the field is the world. Right. And so we have to, we have to, we have to do a little bit of, um. We have to do a little bit of hermeneutics to understand that this is also speaking of the church, right? It's not as though the church is some hermetically sealed off body that the dynamics of the world and the, the weed and the tears like that, that doesn't happen in the church. But when we talk about the end of the age here, he says the son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom. All causes of sin in all lawbreakers. Right? So, so the, the final eschatological judgment, it's all encompassing. And I dunno, maybe I'm, maybe I'm becoming a little bit post mill with this, um, the, the world is already the Kingdom of Christ. Right? Right. That's right. It, it's not, it's not just the church on earth that is the kingdom of Christ. And so when we talk about this eschatological reaping, um, what we see is, is very straightforward. There are those who are, uh, who belong to Christ, who were sown by him into the world, who were, uh, were tended by him, who were protected by him, who he intended to harvest from the very beginning, right? The good sower sows good seed into the field, and that good seed is and necessarily will be wheat. It's not as though, um, it's not as though, and again, this is one of those ways where like the parables sometimes, uh, are telling a little bit of a different story. Even though they're sharing some themes in the first parable, in the parable of the sower, he sows the same seed into the world. But the seed in that first parable is not the, is not the person receiving the seed. The seed is the one is the word of God. Yes. And so the word of God is sewn promiscuously, even to those who will be hard soil and who will be rocky soil and have thorns. The word of God is, is sewn to all of those people. Across the whole world in this parable. The seed that is the good seed that is sown is and always was going to be weed that was, or wheat, which was going to grow into fruitfulness and be gathered into the barn. Right? That was a foregone conclusion. The, the, when the sower decided to sow seed, all of that said he is the one who did that. He's the one that chose that. He's the one that will bring us to completion, right? And then also the ones that are not of his kingdom, the sons of the devil, they will also be reaped at the end. Actually we'll be reaped before the, you know, they'll be reaped and gathered and, and tossed into the furnace before the sons of the kingdom are gathered together. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: So it, again, this is a parable and even though this is Christ's explanation of the parable, I don't think that Christ was intending to give us like a strict timeline. Right. I don't think he was encouraging us to draw a chart and try to map out where this all happens in order. Um, I do think it's relevant that, that, at least in the explanation of this parable, I mentioned it last week, that, that the rap, the rapture is actually the wicked being raptured. They're the ones that are gathered and taken out of the world and cast into the fiery furnace before the, before the righteous are gathered together and, and brought into Christ Barn. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there's a great unmasking that's happening here in this final stage. I mean, that's critically the point. I think there's a lot of stuff we could talk about open handedly and kind of hypothesize or theorize what it means. But what is plain, I think, is that there's this unmasking, this unveiling of the reality of the light of Christ's perfect judgment. But that judgment is for both parties Here it is coming and what was hidden beneath outward religion or more, a facade is gonna be revealed with eternal clarity. That's just the reality. It is coming. So in some ways it pairs. I think at least well in this, well purposely of course in this teaching because Jesus is saying, hold on, like we talked about last time. Do this is not for you to judge. You are ill-equipped. You are not skilled enough to discern this. And therefore though, you wanna go in hot and get spicy and try to throw out all the weeds. Wait for the right time. Wait for the one like you're saying, Tony has from all of eternity past intended for it to be this way. Super intending his will over all things in the casting of the seed. And as we say, Philippians, of course, finishing that good work, which was started, he will finish. It is God's two finish again. And so he says, listen, that day is coming. There's gonna be a great unmasking. Uh, get ready for it. And the scriptures bear witness to that in so many other ways. So. There's such a journey in these like handful of verses, isn't there? I mean, it's really wild. The things that not like we come up with or we read into the text, but as we sit in it a little bit, as we just spend even a cursory amount of time letting it pour over us, that we find there's like a conviction in a weight in these things that are beyond just the story and beyond just even like the illustrations themselves. What we find is, again, it's as if Jesus himself in his brilliance, of course, through the power of the Holy Spirit, is illuminating the mind in the spirit to open up our conception, understanding of the kingdom of God by bringing it to us through his perspective in our own terms, of course, which is both our language and like the context of the world in which we live, and that simple example of farming and seed. And again, even just that there are these interest weeds that look like wheat. I went on this like rabbit hole this week and did a lot of research on like tears and Yeah, like especially people in like the Midwest United States who like know a lot more about agriculture than I do have a lot to say about this. It's not just like we shouldn't be surprised like. Isn't it incredible that like there are actually weeds out there that look like, yeah, it's a brilliance of just knowing that this teaching is so finely tuned. Like we can even just talk about that. Like the world is finely tuned. This teaching is so finely tuned to these grant theological principles that we can at one point be children and appropriate them enough and assume them into our own intellectual capacity so that we can trust in them. And yet even as like adults with like, let's say like the greatest gift of intellectual capacity, still find that we cannot get to the bottom of them because they're so deep. They draw us into these really, really grand vistas or really like extremely deep cold theological waters. And I just find. That I am in awe then of what Jesus is saying here because there's a truth for us in assurance that we ought to clinging to. And there's also like stuff that we should come back to. We shouldn't just stop it here and put it out of our minds until the next time we, we want to just be stimulated by something that's interesting or that we want to just grab somebody and shake them cage style, cage two style and say like, look at this great thing that I just learned about this, this particular parable. But instead, there's so much here for us to meditate on. And in that, I think rather than the Christian finding fear in this parable, what they should find is great comfort. We should be Noah alike sitting in the ark saying, it is well with my soul. And our reason for that is because we know God has cast a seed through his son Jesus Christ. And to be a child, a child of God is the greatest thing in all the universe. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I, I think that, um, transitions nicely to, uh, I'll make this point quick because we're coming up on time here. Um. [00:52:04] Christ's Divinity and Sovereignty Tony Arsenal: The other little subtle thing that Christ does here in this parable is he, he absolutely asserts his divinity and sovereignty overall creation. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Yep. Tony Arsenal: Right. It, it's almost like a throw. There's a couple little like lines that are almost throwaway lines, right in the, the first, the beginning of the parable here. Um, the parable itself, uh, he says, um, the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed into a field. And then he says, um, the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, right? And then when he interprets the parable, he says, well, the, the servants are, the field is the world, right? So he's the master of the world, and the servants are the angels. So he's the master of the angels. And then if, if there was any doubt left in your mind. Says in verse 41, the son of man will send his angels. That's right. And they will gather out of his kingdom, which is the world, all the causes of sin and all lawbreakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. Right? So we have this, this robust picture that there is election. The the good sower sows good seed into the world, and the good seed will necessarily grow into wheat and will be preserved and protected and ultimately harvest Well, why can we have assurance that that will be the case? Well, because the master of the house is the son of man who is the Lord of the universe and the creator of all things. And his angels do his will. That's right. So, so the whole thing is all wrapped up. Why can we have assurance? Because God is a good God and Christ is a good savior, and the savior of the world is the creator of the universe, right? If any of those facts were not true. Then we couldn't have assurance. If God wasn't good, then maybe he's lying. If Christ wasn't the savior of the world or the God of the universe, the creator of the universe, then he wasn't worthy to be the one who saves. All of this is wrapped up in the parables, and this is what's so exciting about the parables. In most of the instances that we look up, especially of the sort of longer parables, these kinds of dynamics are there where it's not just a simple story making a simple point, it is making one primary point. Usually there's one primary point that a, that a parable is making. But in order to make that primary point, there's all these supporting points and supporting things that have to be the case. If the, if the good sower was not the master of the house and a, a competent, uh, a competent landowner who knew the difference between wheat and weeds, even at the early stage, right? His, his servants go and go, what happened? What's with all of these weeds? They can tell the difference somehow, Jesse Schwamb: right? Tony Arsenal: He's immediately able to go, well, this was an enemy. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Tony Arsenal: And while they're bumbling around going, should we go rip it all up and start over? He is like, no, no, no, no. Just wait until, wait until it all grows up together. And when that happens, the Reapers will come and they'll take care of it and they'll do it in my direction, right? Because he's competent, he's the savior, he's the creator, he's the good master, he is the good sower. Um, we can be confi

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

Westminster Confession of Faith CHAPTER XI. Of Justification IV. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect; and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification: nevertheless they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit does in due time actually apply Christ unto them.

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

Adult Bible Class - Baptism & Membership Class #5 - The History & Purpose of the Free Presbyterian Church of North America The sermon presents a historical and theological narrative tracing the origins and distinctives of the Free Presbyterian Church, rooted in a commitment to biblical fidelity, doctrinal purity, and separation from ecumenical and liberal movements that compromise the gospel. It highlights pivotal moments in Irish Presbyterian history—such as the stand against Arianism, the Ulster Revival of 1859, and the 1951 Crossgar mission—as foundational to the church's identity, emphasizing that faithful resistance to heresy and compromise has been central to its existence. The church's identity as 'Free' is defined not by lack of structure or cost, but by its deliberate separation from apostate and ecumenical bodies, particularly the World Council of Churches, and its unwavering adherence to the Westminster Confession of Faith, the King James Version of Scripture, and Reformed theology. The sermon underscores the church's mission to preach the whole counsel of God, promote biblical worship, and maintain strict moral and doctrinal standards—including opposition to charismatic practices, contemporary music, alcohol use, and non-traditional marriage—while affirming its evangelistic zeal, commitment to church planting, and accountability through presbyterian governance. Ultimately, the church sees itself as a faithful remnant called to preserve the historic Christian faith, foster spiritual edification, and await Christ's return, all grounded in a theology of grace, separation, and holy living.

This introduction to Christian ethics explores the foundational principles of biblical morality. The lesson examines three categories of ethics: descriptive, normative, and meta-ethics, with particular focus on understanding how Christians should approach ethical questions. Christian ethics differs fundamentally from secular philosophy because believers possess Scripture as their authoritative source. The study demonstrates that ethical behavior flows from identity in Christ rather than mere rule-following. This introduction to Christian ethics establishes that truly good works require proper motivation, right purpose, and alignment with God's glory. Believers must understand that their moral capacity stems from union with Christ, making them capable of acts that please God. The lesson clarifies that while unbelievers may perform outwardly beneficial actions, these cannot be truly good without the right motivation and purpose centered on glorifying God. This comprehensive introduction to Christian ethics lays the groundwork for examining specific ethical issues through a biblical lens, emphasizing that all Christian conduct must flow from a heart transformed by faith and directed toward God's glory. ★ Support this podcast ★

SUNDAY COURSES | Westminster Confession of Faith, Ch 12: Of Adoption

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

Pastor Jason Fest discusses free will and God's sovereignty in Chapter 3 of the Westminster Confession. Listen above or download the audio file here. Photo by Skyler Gerald on Unsplash The post The Westminster Confession of Faith, Part 8 first appeared on Trinity Reformed Church.

Pastors Patrick Hines (Bridwell Heights Presbyterian Church in Kingsport, TN), Jim Thornton (Reformed Faith Presbyterian Church in Clarksville, TN) and Henry Johnson (Trinity Presbyterian Church in Tazwell, VA) discuss chapter 13 of the Westminster Confession of Faith "Of Sanctification." CHAP. XIII.—Of Sanctification. I. THEY, who are effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection (1 Cor. 6:11; Acts 20:32; Phil. 3:10; Rom. 6:5-6), by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them (John 17:17; Eph. 5:26; 2 Thess. 2:13): the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed (Rom. 6:6, 14), and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified (Gal. 4:24; Rom. 8:13); and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces (Col. 1:11; Eph. 3:16-19), to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (2 Cor. 7:1; Heb. 12:14). II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man (1 Thess. 5:23); yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part (1 John 1:10; Rom. 7:18, 23; Phil. 3:12); whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh (Gal. 5:17; 1 Peter 2:11). III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail (Rom. 7:23); yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome (Rom. 6:14; 1 John 5:4; Eph. 4:15-16); and so, the saints grow in grace (2 Peter 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:18), perfecti

Westminster Confession of Faith CHAPTER XI. Of Justification II. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but works by love.

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

Westminster Confession of Faith CHAPTER XI. Of Justification THOSE whom God effectually calls he also freely justifies; not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous: not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone: not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience, to them as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith: which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.

n this solo episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb dives into a theological exploration of work as an extension of Christian calling that extends far beyond paid employment. Building upon their previous discussion about vocational choices for Christians, Jesse addresses the question: "Does a Christian's work ever cease?" Through careful examination of Ephesians 2:8-10 and other passages, he argues that while the nature of our work may change through different seasons of life—including retirement, caregiving, or illness—God has prepared good works for believers to walk in throughout their entire earthly journey. The episode offers both theological foundations and practical guidance on how Christians can approach all forms of labor as worship, finding purpose and meaning in every season of life. Key Takeaways Good works are not the basis of salvation but its goal—Christians are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), not by works, yet they are saved for good works that God has prepared in advance (Ephesians 2:10). The Christian's work never ceases but changes form—Whether in paid employment, retirement, caregiving, or even during illness, God has prepared meaningful work for believers in every season of life. All work has spiritual value when done unto the Lord—The Reformed tradition elevates all forms of work, not just paid employment, as having potential to glorify God. Prayer is a significant and valuable form of work—Even those who cannot engage in physical labor can participate in the vital spiritual work of intercessory prayer. Good works offer multiple benefits to believers—According to the Westminster Confession, good works manifest gratitude to God, bolster assurance of faith, encourage other Christians, adorn Christian doctrine, silence critics, and glorify God. Christian workers should be distinctively different—Believers can stand out in the workplace by being fair and committed, genuinely caring for others, demonstrating generosity, remaining calm under pressure, and being authentic about their faith. Finding our identity in Christ transforms our approach to work—When we place our ultimate treasure in heaven rather than earthly gain, we can approach our labors with greater peace, purpose, and freedom from anxiety. Elaboration on Key Points The Christian's Work Never Ceases but Changes Form Jesse challenges the modern Western notion that work is merely a season of life that eventually ends with retirement. Instead, he presents a more ancient and biblical perspective: that work never ceases but merely takes different forms throughout our lives. Using Paul's metaphor of "walking" in the good works God has prepared (Ephesians 2:10), Jesse explains that our journey continues throughout life, with the landscape changing as we move through different seasons. Whether we're in paid employment, caring for loved ones, serving in retirement, or confined to a bed during illness, God has prepared meaningful work for us to do. Even those who are physically limited can engage in the vital work of intercessory prayer, which Jesse describes as "the kind of work that is so glorious... that while it exhausts us, it exhausts us in a way that brings us the greatest kind of sleep or refreshment." This perspective eliminates the anxiety many Christians feel about the purpose of their later years and affirms the ongoing value of their contributions to God's kingdom regardless of their physical capacity or economic productivity. Good Works Offer Multiple Benefits to Believers Drawing from the Westminster Confession of Faith, Jesse outlines six significant benefits of good works in the Christian life. First, good works manifest our gratitude to God for the gift of His Son—they become tangible expressions of thankfulness for salvation. Second, they bolster assurance of faith by providing evidence of God's work in our lives. Third, good works encourage other Christians toward greater acts of Christ-centered love, as we witness the transforming power of the gospel in one another. Fourth, they adorn the doctrine of God our Savior, making abstract theological truths visible and attractive to others. Fifth, good works silence critics who devalue biblical Christianity by demonstrating its positive impact. Finally, they glorify God by displaying His transformative work of love in our lives. These benefits apply to all forms of work—paid or unpaid—and give eternal significance to even the most mundane tasks when done unto the Lord. As Jesse emphasizes, "There are no mundane things. There are no small works... There are just these small things that come alongside with the great work that God has done already in our lives." Memorable Quotes "Good works aren't bad when they're seen as the goal of salvation, not its ground. The goal, because it's worthwhile to want to worship God and to obey him by doing good works." "Keep walking on that journey knowing that God all along the way has already prepared good works for you to do because he loves you and because this is our opportunity to worship him together in everything that we do." "When we are performing this work for God, he assures our faith. He refreshes us in it. He exhausts us in the best possible way so that we might love him more, cherish him more, encourage one another more, and really come to understand his character more forthrightly."   Full Transcript [00:00:08] Jesse Schwamb: Keep walking on that journey knowing that God all along the way has already prepared good works for you to do because he loves you and because this is our opportunity to worship him together and everything that we do. [00:00:32] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 459 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse, and this is the podcast where the tulip never wilts. Hey, brothers and sisters. [00:00:48] Recap of Previous Episode [00:00:48] Jesse Schwamb: So in this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, this solo episode, I'm gonna wrap up a conversation that Tony and I just had in the last episode and set us up, wet Your Appetite for a whole brand new series. [00:01:03] Jesse Schwamb: That's gonna be starting in the next episode. So you find yourself bookended by two really great things. One, a great conversation we just had about the Christian and work. Are there jobs that really Christians shouldn't have? Because it takes us away from what it means to serve the Lord vocationally, as strange as that sounds. [00:01:22] Jesse Schwamb: So if you didn't hear that, you're gonna wanna go check that out before you listen to me, wrap all of us up right now. In fact, here's what you should do. Stop everything you're doing, unless it's operating a vehicle or a backhoe. Power those things down. Get off the side of the road, then go to reformed brotherhood.com and you can find all of the episodes living out there that we've ever recorded, including the one from last week, and I believe will be greatly blessed by hanging out with some of those conversations. [00:01:49] Jesse Schwamb: So go and do that first. [00:01:51] The Christian's Work and Retirement [00:01:51] Jesse Schwamb: On this episode, I'm gonna talk a little bit as a follow up about. Does the Christian's work ever cease? Is there a time, because we just spoke about vocational work and work for which we're remunerated, where once that goes away, what happens next? Is it a different kind of work? [00:02:07] Jesse Schwamb: Is it no work? Should we be the kind of people that are trying to pursue an end to that remunerated work as quick as possible? Is that okay? What happens if we can't be compensated for our work anymore? What happens? We're gonna reason from the scriptures a little bit more about work, our calling and all of that by way of vocation. [00:02:26] Jesse Schwamb: And part of this conversation has actually come from a larger conversation. So one of the greatest and best things about this podcast, something I wanna boast in right now, because it has nothing to do with Tony or me, and that is. There are lots of people listening, brothers and sisters from all over the world who gathered together and debrief. [00:02:47] Jesse Schwamb: Talk about the episodes, hang out and talk about life, share funny stories, share prayer requests, support one another. And you can do that by joining our little group on a messaging app called Telegram. So in fact, here's the second thing you should do. If you go to T Me Reform Brotherhood one more time, T Me Back slash Reform Brotherhood, slap that bad boy in your favorite browser, and that'll give you a link to our little corner of this messaging app. [00:03:13] Jesse Schwamb: And there's a channel within that app just to talk about. The various episodes as a way of interacting with all of us, and as a result of the episode that we recorded last about this idea of vocational work and calling, how does that all come together? Brother Joshua posed an excellent question, which is in part the reason for the conversation I'm about to have with you all, and that is what happens. [00:03:33] Jesse Schwamb: When we retire, or what happens when we desire to set aside sufficient resources if we can, so that we can get to that place as soon as possible. What then what about work or what if we have to care for a sick, sick, loved one? Or what if we have to come and take responsibility for our family in a different or unique way that takes us away from work where we're not being paid for things in the same way anymore? [00:03:52] Jesse Schwamb: What happens then? So we are going to get to all of that on this little brief little episode that's gonna sit in between the end of our conversation on work and the beginning of our brand new series, which, you know, you want me to tell you what it is, but I'm not gonna do it. It's just not gonna happen on this episode. [00:04:09] Jesse Schwamb: So you're just gonna have to sit in that anticipation waiting. Waiting for it to come next week, but for now, let's talk a little bit more about work. [00:04:17] Good Works and Salvation [00:04:17] Jesse Schwamb: And let me start with a, a phrase that's like so obvious, but you can say it with me if you want, because we have to agree on this. At least that good works aren't bad. [00:04:27] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, good works aren't bad. They're good. By definition it seems like self-reinforcing. And as Christians, we should want to do those good works. Now, I haven't said what the good works are, haven't even explained really. Although we, Tony and I talked about this before, how they really fit into that pattern and that normative behavior of the Christian life. [00:04:44] Jesse Schwamb: But can we just agree that if the Bible is saying there are good works for us to do, then they must be good. And they must be there for a purpose. They must be there for a reason and we can't debate that. Just because we're not saved according to our works doesn't mean that we shouldn't be concerned about pursuing a life of joyful obedience to God's word. [00:05:01] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, this is why Jesus like emphatically states in the gospel. If you love me, you'll keep my commandments in obedience. However frail it is. However much we stumble, however feeble we are in actually executing it is our evidence. Our love for God and for his son Jesus Christ. So far from undermining the gospel of grace, good works are the perfect compliment to the gospel, and this is why good works are good. [00:05:29] Jesse Schwamb: So to be clear, good works are bad when they're seen as the basis of salvation. And I think if you've been with us for any length of time or you're familiar with the reform. Theological movement. If you've been steeped in the scriptures, you're gonna find that kind of compulsion, that pull that says like, well, I understand that when I use my good works as a means of somehow Meritoriously earning my salvation, they cease to be good. [00:05:54] Jesse Schwamb: This is why, of course, Jonathan Edwards called Good works of this nature, only glittering sin because they're, they have no power to redeem. They have no power to save. They have no power to. Transition yourself into some kind of a righteous sense or rubric. It's impossible. They will not do that. They do not serve that purpose. [00:06:12] Jesse Schwamb: A person is not saved by works, but by God's grace through faith in Christ. [00:06:17] The Role of Good Works in Christian Life [00:06:17] Jesse Schwamb: So this is the time where we have to love ones. Go to Ephesians chapter two. It's impossible for me to continue without at least sharing this good news. If you need to hear this again, and this may be a well rehearsed verse or a well rehearsed writing from the Apostle Paul to you, but I ask that you hear it again. [00:06:32] Jesse Schwamb: If you can with these ears that are unstopped, that are almost fresh with excitement for this really good news, this is what Paul writes to the church and Ephesus for. By grace, you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not as a result of works so that no one may boast. [00:06:51] Jesse Schwamb: For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. I mean, there's so much there that is. Lovely and refreshing. And freeing. It's not works righteousness, it's not meritorious. Salvation is clearly not of our own doing. It's not the result of these works, even the faith through which we receive salvation is a gracious, gracious gift from God. [00:07:21] Jesse Schwamb: So what a just burden taken off of our shoulders. The mantle has been removed from us. To somehow even equate or think that, well, if I have a good day and I've done a lot for God, he must love me more. I must be more ingratiated towards him, even if I have the sense that. I feel closer to him. Hopefully that closeness is the sense of joy and obedience. [00:07:40] Jesse Schwamb: And now where we get the sense that, well, because I've done something for God, he ought to do something for me or me more favorably disposed towards me. All of that is nonsense and that way just. Total foolishness and madness lies. Instead, when we turn that into our rejoicing first for the faith itself by which we receive from God, that grants us access to this great salvation. [00:08:02] Jesse Schwamb: When we see that as a gift first, then all of this other mongering for responsibility and trying to placate through the things that we can do and having this sense of guilt in our minds about what we should have done or what we did not accomplish, or even if in our own obedience toward Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit, we've fallen short. [00:08:20] Jesse Schwamb: We can still find there is this gift for us and the gift of salvation is ours in Christ through faith, not by works. It's very, very clear in what Paul writes to the church here as fallen creatures, even our best efforts are completely laced with sin. This also is, by the way, a really great kindness of God that we can never really be contrite enough in our coming before him and, and even in our humility, we probably can never be humble enough. [00:08:47] Jesse Schwamb: So the fact that God accepts because of Christ us into the family of God without having to put upon us this burden that you must be sorry enough for your sin, or you're not repentant enough, you haven't expressed the severe and necessary amount of contrition to really placate and understand that you have cosmically committed treason against the all powerful God of the universe. [00:09:13] Jesse Schwamb: Who could stand underneath that kind of weight. And the answer is no one, but by the grace of God through Jesus. So it's amazing. That when we start to think about work, what we find is that God is first doing all of the work in us, and we see that the first work is not our work, but his work, the secondary work, this means of obedience, of showing, our gratitude of expressing praise and worship. [00:09:37] Jesse Schwamb: Must, I think, necessarily be manifest in work that is labor of some kind, because God has first expressed himself in that kind of labor. And second, he's given it to us to do as an experience into his very being and his character, but also in service to him and to those who are around us. I promise I'm getting to all of this good stuff about what does this practically mean, but all this I think is so necessary for us. [00:10:02] Jesse Schwamb: To really set the proper understanding for what it means to have good work to do and to do this work. So these good works provide no basis for boasting because they're utterly worthless to save. They have worth in other ways, but it just turns out they're worthless In this way. It's a bit like if you take your, take your, whatever your domestic currency is, whatever the currency you, you transact in, I live and hang out in the United States, so my currency is the US dollar. [00:10:24] Jesse Schwamb: If I take a bunch of dollars with me and I go travel almost anywhere else in the world. There's a small chance they'll be accepted. And I realize I've picked the wrong currency for this metaphor at this point, but if I let, let's say, let's just pick a different one. Let's say that you live in Zimbabwe or you just happen to have a bunch of Zimbabwean dollars hanging out in your pocket. [00:10:42] Jesse Schwamb: I'm sure some of you do, and you take that currency and you come to the United States and you wanna go buy something, those dollars will not work. They just won't work. Nobody will accept them. They're worthless. They're without value. Now, do they have value? In a certain sense, of course they do. In that domestic currency, in that homeland they do. [00:10:59] Jesse Schwamb: And in the same way, though, of course, slightly different here, our works are these expression of. Obedience of love for God. But the minute we try to exchange them for salvation, what we're gonna find is God says that's worthless here. And it again, is a fool's errand to build your entire life on some kinda system or belief that says, what I'm doing is earning these dollars, making these good works, performing these things. [00:11:22] Jesse Schwamb: So I'll have gathered to myself all of this currency, which I'm then going to use to buy my salvation now, I think even in my own ears, that sounds ridiculous to say, and yet so many of us. Get caught up in that. And if we don't get caught up in whole, we sometimes get caught up in it peace wise, because again, we have a sense that, well, if I've been a particularly good Christian today, doesn't that mean that God is more happy with me? [00:11:45] Jesse Schwamb: And Paul says, no, you have been saved as a gift of God. It is his gracious act that through faith you have been given salvation, and that faith was not of your own. That itself as well was a gift. It's gift upon gift upon gift. And so even the work itself is shaped. By the sense that all that God gives us and him doing all the verbs is his gifting. [00:12:09] Jesse Schwamb: So good works are gonna provide no basis for boasting because they are worthless to save. And the only foundation for salvation is Christ, we're saved by his works, not ours. If you're looking for that good, that first, that perfect work, the thing that you could latch onto, the thing that you would say this, I'm gonna hang my hat. [00:12:27] Jesse Schwamb: And all of my life on the work that you're looking for is not the one that you can accomplish. It is the one that Jesus has already done on your behalf. So that's why I always think when I see those W wait, they're not as prevalent anymore I suppose. But do you remember a time loved ones when like the ubiquity of the WAJD bracelet and I always thought about the question, what would Jesus do? [00:12:49] Jesse Schwamb: And to me, the answer I give now somewhat tongue in cheek is everything and it's already been done. And so that is really the promise. The great blessing of the gospel that now we are saved for works and boy does that preposition make a difference. Like we should be underlining that, like putting that gilded gold in our Bibles like we are saved now for God works good, works are not bad then when they're seen as the goal of salvation, not its ground. [00:13:14] Jesse Schwamb: I wanna say that again because I think that might sound a little bit funny to some, but I've long really come to cherish this idea that it is the goal but not the ground. The goal, because it's worthwhile to want to worship God. And to obey him by doing good works. And Paul gives us an avenue in which to travel and to understand this and to reason it from the scripture so that we can be confident that that's exactly what God intends for us. [00:13:37] Jesse Schwamb: And so again, while these good works aren't meritorious salvation, they are a necessary component of Christian faith. And the first important thing that we ought to mention here. Is that when we think about work, it's not that like the reform tradition, that that theological perspective has somehow elevated work for remuneration. [00:13:55] Jesse Schwamb: I, I don't think that entirely was the whole emphasis of talking about vocation in that kind of theological sphere. That is, we have a bunch of Christians and they have to do work to survive, and some of them are cobblers and of them are cooks and some of them are cleaners. And so what we really need to do here is make sure that people understand that whatever you're getting paid for God has made you to do. [00:14:15] Jesse Schwamb: And that is not a great thing. That's all true, but the goal wasn't just to elevate that style or type of work that is the work for which you get compensated. It was to elevate all work, all work of every kind, all labor of every kind, because God is big enough that every bit of labor paid or unpaid in direct service for somebody. [00:14:34] Jesse Schwamb: Fortunately, there is no compensation or in service to someone for which there is that all of that work. It does give God glory if we mean it to. And so this is why they do all things. Whatever you do, whether you eat or whether you drink, all of even these tiny things roll up into this argument from the lesser to the greater all of work is for God's glory. [00:14:53] Jesse Schwamb: And so to tip my hat a little bit here, then I think an answer to, to Brother Joshua's question, and in a nice compliment to what Tony and I were talking about last week, there is no end to the Christian's work. There's just different types of work. Oh, we'll get to that. I'm a little bit ahead of myself here. [00:15:08] Jesse Schwamb: But of course we find in Ephesians two, it's important to understand this because there's so much of the dynamic of good works in the Christian life that are being explained there. And of course we learn that good works are the result and not the cause of being new creations, and they're testifying to the fact that we have been redeemed. [00:15:24] Jesse Schwamb: So our lives might reflect craftsmanship and character of God. So amazing, isn't it? That God has given work, that work is not a four letter word, that labor is good labor of all kinds. Is good because it's reflecting the craftsmanship in character of God in unique ways. That is like apart from doing work from this work which God has called us to, from traveling in it through our lives and participating in all kinds of different work, that there's something that would be missing in our exemplifying, the craftsmanship in character of God. [00:15:56] Jesse Schwamb: And so we see that apart from Christ. We can do nothing that pleases God, but in Christ. And here's a great promise. We are created to perform God honoring acts of obedience in Christ. We can be confident that God accepts our weak and wobbly efforts. You know, Paul further goes on to talk about good works, a result of God's pattern for the Christian life. [00:16:15] Jesse Schwamb: We don't need to wonder what God requires from us. He's told us in his word, good works are deeds done in conformity to God's word. Now the beauty of that is. That we have this pattern for the Christian life in which Paul is saying, and I think this is really helpful for our conversation, that all of the things that God has given us to do, he's already prepared. [00:16:39] Jesse Schwamb: He's already me and plus it. He's already set the table for us. He's already put all the things in place. He's already organized all the details. And he says that because he's done that we are now free to walk in them. And I interpret that walk as this idea, which I think is very particular to the way that Paul is writing here. [00:16:57] Jesse Schwamb: It's a word of encouragement that is speaking of more of a marathon and rather a sprint. So of course, like a lot of times in the West, we think of our work as a season of life in which we're doing something in service for a company and for others, creating value, which is good. All of these things can be in service to God, of course, especially when they're in honoring. [00:17:15] Jesse Schwamb: With a full counsel of the scriptures and that when we do those things, that time will end and then we start to think about what work do have left. Whereas really, of course, a more ancient way of thinking about work was that it never ceased. It was of different kinds, and we know it was of different kinds because of this idea of walking that is like you never says stop the walk. [00:17:32] Jesse Schwamb: It never says take a break. It says you're gonna continue throughout your life in this metaphor of. Your journey of life being a walk, and as that walk changes, as the landscape undulates, as you move and transverse over different geographies on this walk in this metaphor, there's no doubt that the work will be different. [00:17:50] Jesse Schwamb: And there may be a season when you no longer have to work and be compensated, but it doesn't mean, of course, that the work ends. In fact, the work is still there. It's a different kind. And we don't want it to go away, in fact, and we don't want it to feel, uh, like it should be a, a lesser thing because it's not because we've been given in this verse the sense that this is the pattern that's been given to us. [00:18:12] Jesse Schwamb: It's the value of walking the pathway of obedience. And Paul makes it manifold. In fact, the Westminster Confession of Faith, which I'm 17 minutes in and you can mark your clock. That's the first time I mentioned it. I've gotten there already. Loved ones. Don't worry, we're always gonna bring in a confession. [00:18:27] Encouragement and Assurance Through Good Works [00:18:27] Jesse Schwamb: And on this week, it's the confession of faith from the Westminster states that there are at least six benefits of good work. So here these out, this is just my quick rundown of what the Westminster puts forward thinking about these good works and when you hear these benefits. Think about them in the broadest way. [00:18:41] Jesse Schwamb: That is like, think about how these benefits apply to all kinds of work, not just like your nine to five, but like of course your family society and the church and your work there is needed both because it is an exemplification of obedience to Christ, but also because it is accomplishing good and creating value. [00:18:58] Jesse Schwamb: So the first is that good works manifest our gratitude to God for the gift of his son. Now think about this. If that's true, that this in a concrete way. No matter what, we're able to do that we, if we're doing these good works, we're showing gratitude to God. Why would we ever want those good works to go away? [00:19:14] Jesse Schwamb: Why do we wanna break that pattern? We don't want to. And again, this gives a, a high level, a high calling to all the things that we can do, both like again, in our paid work and then thereafter. Or even if we, we never have paid work that all of these things, there's something for us to do here and it manifests our gratitude to God and the gift of his son. [00:19:32] Jesse Schwamb: The second thing is good work's, bolster assurances of faith. So it is the Christian who in obedience to Christ has a compulsion is as Paul would say elsewhere, hemmed in by the love of God to work towards a specific end in love and service toward others. That is a good work. And when we're doing that good work, there's a mutual kind of reinforcement that occurs that as we humble ourselves before God and that we work to. [00:19:57] Jesse Schwamb: Or to obey him and that we walk in the good works that he has prepared for us, that we find that we are sure that God is who he is, that his character and craftsmanship is, is in fact manifest in us and demonstrated by us. And in this way as we worship him, we find that our faith grows. Especially perhaps when we're called to do things that are difficult or we're called to participate in work, especially in the church, that requires some kind of leap of faith and we're in so doing where we must trust God forthrightly. [00:20:27] Jesse Schwamb: We find that doing those good works bolster our assurance of faith. Number three. Good works are a means of encouraging other Christians toward greater acts of Christ-centered love. There's so much in Hebrews chapter 10 that we could talk about there. This is an incredible idea that when we work towards obeying God laboring on his behalf in all of the spheres of life, to which he has given us to participate in that Christians receive this as a. [00:20:55] Jesse Schwamb: Form of encouragement. You know, think about how you've seen the testifying work of somebody else in your church, in their patience, in their kind behavior. You know, we often speak about a person who is graceful, and by that of course, we mean there's a beauty to their outer movement, as it were. That's maybe they're a graceful dancer. [00:21:11] Jesse Schwamb: Maybe they're a grace or a baseball player, but you'll find that you can apply this word in so many ways whenever you are trying to really show that somebody in their outward movements does things particularly well, or just with ease or in a way that conveys a certain kind of beauty. When we say that somebody is gracious, what we essentially mean is that there's a beauty to their inner movement that is, that the exemplification of who they are in Christ is so firmly rooted in solid, that the way they behave in situations and circumstances clearly shows. [00:21:43] Jesse Schwamb: That there's something different about the way that they process the world and in the way that they work. And when we see that we are prone to be encouraged to see that God is real, that he does intervene and interact in situations that he does, in fact still do the most miraculous thing ever, which is take the sinner, take the gospel abuser, take the unregenerate, and perform that surgical movement. [00:22:05] Jesse Schwamb: Where that heart of stone is replaced with one of flesh, it's the greatest miracle in the entire universe. And so when we're seeing that work exemplified, we're allowing ourselves to participate in encouraging our brothers and sisters. Fourth good works are concrete avenues for adorning the doctrine of God, our savior in life, in ministry. [00:22:25] Jesse Schwamb: So again, it's uniting this idea of who we are, that we say we are, who we are in our transformation regeneration, marrying that up with work. And this is, again, why a. All of this reform of theology elevates work to this place of saying, whatever you do, you can do it to the glory of God and you ought to, you ought to be thinking that way because this is the way God intended all the things that we do to be done. [00:22:47] Jesse Schwamb: So idea of like when Paul says, like, pray without ceasing, be constantly in the Lord. I think in some ways what he's saying is. When you shift your mindset to recognize that there are no mundane things to do because God has prepared all those things ahead of time, they're, they're mundane, maybe in their smallness, in our own like really myopic kind of human natural man perspective. [00:23:06] Jesse Schwamb: They are certainly not mundane with respect to the power of love that may be communicated in them with the encouragement that flows out of them, and with the expression of gratitude for God, our savior and his son. All of those things are high and lifted up worthy of exaltation and call worthy of all of our efforts. [00:23:23] Jesse Schwamb: And so there we find that there are really no mundane things. There are no small works as it were. There are just these small things that come alongside with the great work that God has done already in our lives and our expression of that first work that he has done. So Fifth Good Works, silence critics who devalue the goodness of biblical Christianity. [00:23:43] Jesse Schwamb: You know, there's a lot here that we could talk about. Jesus was so outspoken about what it meant for his followers to adorn themselves to be in Christ, and in so doing, they were gonna be these lights set on a, like a city on a hill for all to see. And sometimes as Christians, we get a little, eh, strange about this kind of thing, don't we? [00:24:01] Jesse Schwamb: Because we, we wanna be careful that we need to be humble. You know, we, we want to make sure that as we're serving God, that we are not boasting in that in any kind of way, and yet there is something here where we ought to be giving and testifying to why we do certain things. I've been thinking about this a lot because I think it's one thing for us to say, well, we wanna live in such a manner. [00:24:21] Jesse Schwamb: We wanna do our work in such a manner, whatever that is, so others know there's something different and, and this is noble and honorable. I think what's even better is to let them know why it's different. Sometimes you shouldn't wait for somebody to ask. You know, if it's clear that you're doing something and you wanna express why we're doing it, say, I'm, I'm doing this 'cause Jesus loves me, he's changed me, and Jesus loves you. [00:24:39] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, this is okay to say loved ones. And I think in doing that, making that connection clear, what it's gonna do is it's going to make sure that those who would say like the, the Bible is antiquated out wounded document. It's a document that's filled with strife. It's a document that pits won't people against one another. [00:24:54] Jesse Schwamb: It's a document that is not progressive enough. What they'll find instead is. When our good works, our truly good works are accompanied by a verbal testimony of why we do these works in obedience to God for, because of his great love for us. It will discredit those who would say all of those things. It turns away a. [00:25:14] Jesse Schwamb: All of the critics would say that the Bible is, is not relevant, that Christians are too, uh, bigoted, that we are the kind of people that are too hypocritical. Instead, when we acknowledge that we are far from perfect, but that we have a perfect savior when we talk about our weak faith, but that our, the faith that we have is not in its size, but in the size of the savior. [00:25:34] Jesse Schwamb: When we can say all these things alongside of our efforts to be obedient. Being humble, asking for forgiveness, seeking repentance from those whom we hurt, that in this way, we are again doing all of the things that are the theology of the cross, that even in our small weaknesses, even in our great failures, what we find is God does more than just to fill in the gaps He overflows with through the power of His Holy Spirit into a powerful testimony into the lives of others with whom we interact, and especially in the things that we do. [00:26:05] Jesse Schwamb: So six. And lastly, this is from the Westminster. These benefits of good works. Last Good works glorify God by displaying his work of love in our lives. I think we often forget about this. That God has given us work because he loves us. Of course, God is always working. There's something beautiful about the fact that God is ever present in our lives working in our hearts. [00:26:29] Jesse Schwamb: And sometimes of course, as the, the older reformers have said, he lays us over the Anil, as it were, and he hammers on us, and those are painful times. And other times he's really polishing up our sharp edges or sanding off those places where we need a little bit of attention. But everywhere he's working in us and what a blessing that he never stops, isn't it that he comes to us constantly because he loves us. [00:26:51] Jesse Schwamb: He refuses to leave us in a state that is less than the abundant life. Now we know that we will never accomplish that, this side of glory. But what a benefit that God never gives up on us. That he continues to show his great love for us in how he attentively comes into our lives to hone us in this progressive sanctification, whereby his work doesn't stop. [00:27:13] The Unending Nature of Work [00:27:13] Jesse Schwamb: And so because his work doesn't stop. Neither does ours. So the beauty of this is for anybody else, for us, for brother Joshua, for those who are thinking about, you know, what if I, I want to maybe try to set aside more resources now so I can stop my work of re of compensation to do other things, I would say. [00:27:31] Jesse Schwamb: Well, Godspeed by, by the power of God, I, I hope that happens for you. And what about those who would say, well, my work is gonna have to be caring for a loved one who's ill? I would say that is great and good work. What about those for who are retiring now or thinking about retirement? What's left? Tons. Of good work. [00:27:48] Jesse Schwamb: I think we know this. Now, what about for those who are in the final stages of their life, those who are not ambulatory, maybe those who are weak, maybe those who are ill themselves. There is still good work because the work that God gives us is not the heavy kind that causes our bodies or our minds to be crushed in despair, to have to till the ground as it were in such a way that it leaves us lacking replenishment instead, even for those. [00:28:16] Jesse Schwamb: Who are saying, what is my place when my body is wasting away? [00:28:21] The Value of Prayer in Our Work [00:28:21] Jesse Schwamb: When I'm having a, a season of sickness and I feel like there's nothing I can do, there is so much that the church needs from you in particular, especially your work in prayer. And again, I think we've been outspoken. Prayer is absolutely a work. [00:28:34] Jesse Schwamb: If you don't believe me, just. Try to pray. So just being able to participate in something like that, which is in many ways maybe the greatest calling. I, I always think about this phrase, when we work, we work, when we pray, God works. And so just the act of saying I'm gonna devote myself in prayer, in intercessory prayer for my church, for my community, for my family, is a kind of work that is unparalleled. [00:28:58] Jesse Schwamb: And so if that's the work that God has given you to walk in right now. Then would you please do it? Because it is the season to which he's called you because he's with you on that journey. And Paul says, wherever you go, wherever you are walking, God has already prepared before you get to the next stop sign, before you get to the next wave point, before you get to the next pin drop. [00:29:17] Jesse Schwamb: God has already prepared for you good works, and you're mealing to walk in them. [00:29:22] Finding Joy and Refreshment in Labor [00:29:22] Jesse Schwamb: And so the work of prayer by itself is the kind of work that is so glorious, like all the work of Christ that we find refreshment and it changes. There's a theme here, like all of our work changes because when we are doing it onto the Lord, we're doing it with him in mind when we're understanding that this is our obligation, but also our greatest privilege, that while it exhausts us. [00:29:41] Jesse Schwamb: It exhausts us in a way that brings us the greatest kind of sleep or refreshment. Does that make sense? We ever had like a really great day at work where, you know, I, I worked hard and I did work worth doing, and in that I felt that there was a sweetness. In fact, Ecclesiastes five 12 says, sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich man will not let him sleep. [00:30:05] Jesse Schwamb: This idea that. Why as we work, as we labor for God, that he does restore us, he gives us joy and satisfaction in that work. And again, there's this, all this mutual reinforcement, this kind of self-fulfilling and reinforcing idea that. When we are performing this work for God, he assures our faith. He refreshes us in it. [00:30:24] Jesse Schwamb: He exhausts us in the best possible way so that we might love him more, cherish him more, encourage one another more, and to really come and understand his character more forthrightly. [00:30:34] Living Quietly and Minding Your Affairs [00:30:34] Jesse Schwamb: I like what Paul says in one Thessalonians chapter four, aspire to live quietly and to mind your own affairs. I mean, that's. [00:30:42] Jesse Schwamb: Good advice for all of us, mind your own affairs and to work with your hands as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one. So we talked before about what it means, that really in our work, we ought to care for those who we love. We ought to make sure that we can provide for them, but there will also be seasons. [00:30:59] Jesse Schwamb: One, there will be others who need to provide for us. And so in so doing, again, we're honoring God by walking in this path that he has given us, uh, to do. I like this. There's a couple of other great verses I think that are helpful for us to really think about what it means to have good work to do and to understand that good work. [00:31:17] The Blessing of Giving [00:31:17] Jesse Schwamb: Here's from Acts chapter 20. Paul says, in all things I've shown you that by working hard in this way, we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus. How He himself said, it is more blessed to give than to receive. So think about that there. There is an expression right there about work and what is this working hard. [00:31:35] Jesse Schwamb: It's to help the weak and to remember the words of Lord Jesus Christ. It is more blessed to give, to receive than to receive. Love always leads to giving for God. So love the world that he. Gave, and I think part of this good work that God calls us to is just giving. And so like right now, you may be in a season where you are giving of your labor in return for compensation, for that labor, but presumably there will, and there should come a time when you'll be giving it and you'll not be receiving that. [00:32:00] Jesse Schwamb: But it doesn't lessen the work. It doesn't take it away. It doesn't mean that it's not necessary anymore. We ought to continue to pursue that because love always leads to giving. Now I want to just finish our short little time together today as we've reasoned, hopefully. [00:32:15] Practical Ways to Exemplify Christian Values at Work [00:32:15] Jesse Schwamb: In a profound way from the scriptures helping us to be encouraged in this work by just a couple of things that if you are thinking in the sense of what can I do right now in my work of all kinds to exemplify and to be driven by unique view of humanity and a love rooted in the wisdom of the cross to stand out, what, what can we do as Christians, practically speaking. [00:32:37] Jesse Schwamb: To take everything that Paul has just given us here, appreciating this beautiful pattern that work is just gonna be part of our lives forever. And by the way, loved ones I, I have a strong conviction that in the new heavens and new Earth, that work will still be present there in a fully orbed and fully expressed, fully realized way that it's not capable today because of everything being mined by sin. [00:32:59] Jesse Schwamb: But then we're gonna find that this is just like an amm bush. It's the taste that. The thing that's coming for us, the appetizer of how work is gonna be fully satisfying, fully encouraging, fully joyful, and a full expression of how God has made us to do things. One of those things again are laboring in prayer, laboring on the construction site, laboring on a desk, laboring in the education and the teaching and ammunition of children. [00:33:24] Jesse Schwamb: All of these things are just really, really good. So what are a couple of things that we can do? Well, here's some things that that come to my mind. The first is that I think Christians can be known as the most care fairing and committed kind of people. So. Think about it this way, driven by the father's love and his acceptance of us through Jesus, we can be the kind of people that are known as fair, caring, and committed to others. [00:33:52] Jesse Schwamb: Since we know the depths of our own sin and the magnitude of God's grace to us, we can be ready to forgive and reconcile with others, and we should be quick to do so if we're doing that in their work environments. Whatever that environment is, there's no doubt this is gonna draw some fair amount of attention. [00:34:07] Jesse Schwamb: We may actually, and this is gonna sound a little bit wild. We may even have opportunities to take risks for the benefit of others. Now imagine it this way. Let's say that everybody has somebody to whom they're responsible and almost everybody else has somebody who's responsible to them. So think of it this way, if you are leading any kind of group of people, formerly or informally, you may have a unique opportunity to take risks on the behalf of those people. [00:34:30] Jesse Schwamb: Now, that may be may mean advocating for them. It could mean yielding to them, even if you have a hierarchical position that's above them. But more than anything, it could mean that you actually take a risk to take responsibility at times. So it's possible that let's say you're a leading a team and you're a place of work, and one of the people who is responsible to you, that is one of the people who reports to you, makes a mistake. [00:34:52] Jesse Schwamb: Let's say that the person that you are responsible to, your boss finds out about this. There's lots of ways you could go about this. Now, you may feel that you want to be easy just to say, well, this wasn't me. It was their fault. But consider how a Christian might approach this in love. It's possible that it may be entirely appropriate for that leader to take responsibility for the mistake, not taking blame for it, but taking responsibility for it as an act and expression of what it means to be fair, caring, and committed to others. [00:35:20] Jesse Schwamb: And now this may mean that if you were that person, you might lose a little bit of cloud to the organization. You might use a little bit of reputation or ability to maneuver within the organization, but there could be a very powerful, could be testimony in your ability to risk yourself for others in a way that I believe, again, is walking in this path of good works and that you are reasonable people. [00:35:41] Jesse Schwamb: You can sort out, I think in a situation like that. What kind of responsibility you might have, but I think it's important for us to consider that we may have that kind of responsibility and that to be known as fair, caring and committed to others. To advocate for them to again, forgive and to reconcile, and then sometimes to take risks of opportunity for the benefit of others is something that is unique to the Christian. [00:36:00] Jesse Schwamb: I think we at least agree on that, that kind of response to a s. We'll be wholeheartedly unique. [00:36:06] Generosity and Kingdom Living [00:36:06] Jesse Schwamb: I think we also need to be known as generous and depending on the context and opportunity, generosity at work can be expressed in so many different ways. Managers can be generous with their advice, their access, their investment in people. [00:36:17] Jesse Schwamb: All of us can be generous with our time, our money sharing our resources. Sacrificially. If you're a small business owner, and this is gonna sound wild, but let's, let's talk about kingdom living for a second. Loved ones like I presumably you're listening to this because we're not just satisfied with the small things. [00:36:31] Jesse Schwamb: We wanna think big in what it means. For the gospel to go out, for Jesus to be known. And so in this context of being generous, maybe it means if you're a small business owner, that you're willing to take less personal profit to benefit your neighbors or your customers or your employees. You know, I think of this company called a Go. [00:36:47] Jesse Schwamb: Which is a wooden toy company and it's, it was founded by a couple of Christians and driven by their Christian faith. They intentionally take smaller profit margins to benefit the people of Honduras where the wood is sourced and to create an employee savings program for them. I mean, that what a remarkable thing what, what a counter-cultural expression of what it means to be doing good. [00:37:08] Jesse Schwamb: Work. And so we can also grow and show our generosity to our colleagues by loving them outside work. You know, cooking a meal, preparing a meal for them when they have a child or attending a funeral if they lose a loved one, grabbing dinner with them if they're struggling, joining their club sports team, attending their wedding. [00:37:23] Jesse Schwamb: You know, generosity during, after work hours is a testimony of love. It shows that you see them as a whole person, not merely as like a productive asset or just a colleague. So I think we should push back a little bit on being generous and maybe sometimes I, I wanna say this. Gently because we are a benefit ourselves in this podcast of this, but not just with your money, especially with your time and maybe with like your attentional focus, maybe with your prayer time. [00:37:47] Jesse Schwamb: Maybe with your labor, in your prayer closet, that of all the things you could focus on, how often are we praying for our colleagues, like really praying that they would come to see the gospel in us, that we would be courageous in expressing that gospel and that God would arrest their hearts, which snatch them up and bring them into his kingdom so that all of our workplaces would be filled, uh, with Christians, that they would be everywhere. [00:38:08] Jesse Schwamb: Doing all kinds of things in som, much as God calls us to those things in submission to him, an expression of who he is and in obedience to what he's done for us. Here's another thing. I think this is a big one. It's one that I struggle with in my own life. [00:38:23] The Importance of Calmness and Authenticity [00:38:23] Jesse Schwamb: So I think another place, another way in which we can really stand out as Christians in our good work is to be known as calm. [00:38:30] Jesse Schwamb: Poised in the face of difficulty, failure or struggle. This might be the most telling way to judge if a person is drawing on the resources of the gospel and the development of their character. And this goes back to this idea of like, what does the a voracious person mean? It's, it's somebody who has like that inner. [00:38:47] Jesse Schwamb: Beauty expression of inner inner beauty. You know, how do we act when our boss passes over us for a promotion? How do we act if we fail to get that bonus we expected or, or if like a colleague is placed on a team we want to be on, how do we respond to those things really reveals where we placed our hope and identity. [00:39:03] Jesse Schwamb: And that can be a whole nother. Podcast. But if it's true that we have rooted ourselves, grounded ourselves, securely in Christ, then that is the supreme treasure that we have, and then everything else should be like, oh, that's no big deal. It's not to say that we're not gonna have big emotions, but even as we experience those big emotions, part of what it means to be humble is to come before God and say, God, I'm feeling this way. [00:39:26] Jesse Schwamb: And I'm a contingent being and I'm upset about this. Would you help me to reveal your gospel in this situation? And what a blessing in our progressive sanctification where God moves us into that space so that what becomes normative is when everybody else is losing their minds, when everybody else is gossiping, when everybody else is complaining. [00:39:46] Jesse Schwamb: What everybody else is pushing back here is the Christian who is resolute in firm and is speaking words of life. Encouragement into their workplace or those whom they're doing their work, who is speaking the gospel to them, who is calm and is poised and is ready to lead in such a way that brings value to everybody, helps 'em to find the true security in the situation and is not willing to compromise by participating in a meaningless backtalk. [00:40:12] Jesse Schwamb: That is an incredible testimony, and there's no doubt it's gonna cause us to stand out. There is something about this placing value that I think is important to mention. And I think I mentioned this before, but Tony's not here and I'm just talking. And so my experience, my professional career is all in the realm of finance. [00:40:30] Jesse Schwamb: So I've gotta use this because I think about this a lot and it's certainly relevant to us thinking about where is our value. [00:40:38] The Concept of True Treasure [00:40:38] Jesse Schwamb: I find it so interesting. That in the sermon on the mound. And when Jesus is speaking about treasures, he doesn't completely say that we should forsake treasures. Have you ever thought about that? [00:40:50] Jesse Schwamb: So instead of saying, you know, listen, don't worry about the treasure, just focus on me. Don't try to go after things. Just focus on me. And somebody says, listen. Listen, listen. You're going after the wrong treasure. So don't go after treasure where you know a moth or Russ is gonna destroy it or where like you're gonna be worried. [00:41:09] Jesse Schwamb: A thief is gonna break in and steal it. All those things are not just temporal, they can be taken from you. In fact, they, they will be taken from you. This is the wild part to me. He says instead, rather than do that, here's what you should do. Seek after the treasure that's in heaven. In other words, the proclivity to want to grab hold of valuable things and to keep them close to you, that is not bad in and of itself. [00:41:32] Jesse Schwamb: It's that you are focusing on the wrong thing that you want to grab and hold close. Seek after those treasures in heaven. And I can tell you why. This just shows the brilliancy with which Jesus knows us because he has created us loved ones, and in our fallen state, he's so kind to condescend to be like us, yet of course, without sin. [00:41:50] Jesse Schwamb: And in that he expresses a great knowledge of who we are and how we are. So. There's a very famous study done, actually very many versions of this study done, and what they'll do, and you can play along, I know I've done this before, but as you're sitting there listening to my voice play along with the scenario that I'm about to give you, and you can answer for yourself what you would do in this situation. [00:42:11] Jesse Schwamb: There's no right or wrong answer. So here's the situation. Researchers gave per people two options. They said, you, I can either give you a thousand dollars for sure, or. Or we can play a game. We'll flip a coin. If the coin is heads, you get $2,000, but if the coin comes up, tails, you get nothing. So the choices were you could have a sure thousand dollars or you could risk it. [00:42:39] Jesse Schwamb: And with a coin flip, a fair coin flip, you could get either $2,000 or zero. Now I'll pause. What would you prefer if you're like most people? You would take the sure $1,000 because you'd rather have for sure a thousand dollars in your pocket than giving up the gamble. Even though you could get twice as much the gamble of $2,000 or zero, who wants to walk away with zero when somebody's like, I'll give you a thousand dollars for certain. [00:43:06] Jesse Schwamb: Most people would prefer the certainty. Now those who are like keen have a turn of mind for mathematics are gonna realize that on average, those two options are exactly the same. So whether you get a thousand dollars. For certain, you got the a thousand dollars on the other option, half the time you'll get zero. [00:43:23] Jesse Schwamb: Half the time you'll get a $2,000. If you average those out, that's sequel to a thousand dollars over the long term. So there's something interesting there too, isn't it? See how our minds are working that we prefer, we are loss averse. In other words, we do not like loss. In fact, there's a very famous. [00:43:39] Jesse Schwamb: Theorem about this that says the pain of losing a dollar is twice as great as the pain of gaining one. And this is why it's so hard. If you have a retirement account, you have investments somewhere. When you look at your accounts and the numbers are down, you feel particularly awful. And when they're up, you feel good, but not that great. [00:43:54] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, this is the idea of. Being a loss averse. Now, here's the other thing that these researchers did. They flipped the whole scenario, and I'm gonna give you one more thing to think about. So rather than talking about gains, they said these people, okay, here's your choice, and you have to choose one of these. [00:44:09] Jesse Schwamb: Either you can take a sure loss of a thousand dollars, or you can take a gamble. And you can take a, we'll flip a coin and if it comes up heads, you'll lose $2,000. But if it comes up tails, you will lose zero. So again, here are the two options, but now we're talking about losses. You either have to take a loss of a thousand dollars for certain, or you could take the gamble, flip a fail fair coin, and you could lose $2,000 or you might lose nothing if it comes up tails. [00:44:42] Jesse Schwamb: Now what would you do? Now if you're like most people, what these researchers found is people gravitated toward taking the risk. That is, they chose the option when they said, let me flip the coin, because at least if I flip the coin, there's a chance I might not lose anything. I know I might lose $2,000, but I would rather take the risk of losing 2000, but have the opportunity to lose nothing than take the sure loss of a thousand dollars. [00:45:05] Jesse Schwamb: So here's what's crazy about all this. Here's what it teaches us, is we make the wrong choices all the time. You know, technically speaking, when it comes to gains, we should prefer the risk, the risk of zero, because you started out with zero, so you're not better. You're not worse off by having zero, and if you win, you get $2,000. [00:45:22] Jesse Schwamb: But when it comes to the loss, we should take the sure loss of a thousand dollars because we might end up having a loss of $2,000. We tend to behave poorly given the situations. This is an example of loss aversion and risk aversion, and Jesus knows this. That's the brilliance of it, of course, because he says, I know that your hearts will be troubled by losing your treasure. [00:45:45] Jesse Schwamb: So here's the thing. It's not the treasure that's bad, it's that you're putting your faith, you're going after the wrong thing. So loved ones. When we find ourselves rooted in Christ, when we find our identity right there in him, when we are sure that all that we have is in the heavenly realms and therefore everything else can float and fl away, then we find ourselves able to be the kind of people in our workplaces where we're calm, poised in the face of difficulty failure, or all kinds of challenges. [00:46:14] Jesse Schwamb: One more thing I would encourage you with, and that is just be known as authentic and integrated. This goes back to something Tony and I have really challenged ourselves with so much, and that is some Christians aren't very open about their faith at work and others talk about it all the time, but act and speak in ways that marginalize nonbelievers. [00:46:30] Jesse Schwamb: We should, of course, be really wise about how we share the reason for the hope that we're, we have when we're at work. But staying silent isn't an option. If we wanna be authentic people, we have to bring our whole selves to work. I think this is where we all, at times could use a little work. I, I've barely been encouraged by brothers and sisters who are far better at this than I, where. [00:46:50] Jesse Schwamb: They're really good at explaining why they do something, and perhaps they've been building a relationship with non-believers, serving them, working with them. And, but when the right opportunity approaches when the moment arrives, they're right there with their explanation. They're quick to say, it's because Jesus loves me. [00:47:06] Jesse Schwamb: They're quick to talk about the transforming power of the gospel. And it's not in a way that's overbearing. It's not in a way that seems disingenuous or somehow like they're, they're shoehorning in some kind of, you know, bully pulpit testimony. Instead, it's a natural expression. Because they were ready and willing and brave. [00:47:22] Jesse Schwamb: To do that. So we've got to be known as authentic and integrated, and that integration is just as important as the authenticity. What, what is the good, what is the point of doing many of these good works if there is not a commensurate explanation or expression of why we are doing them, because. Plenty of people who are non-believers also do good work. [00:47:42] Jesse Schwamb: This is part of the common grace that God has given to all of our world and to the entire universe writ large. So in that being said, sometimes we just need to say, this is why I'm doing it. And it's possible that probably people are sometimes thinking, I have no idea why this person is doing this, but I'm not gonna ask them. [00:47:57] Jesse Schwamb: 'cause that's super weird. So by us stepping forward and saying, listen, I love you, God is good to me, uh, there there's a God over the universe who saved me. I was in this pit of despair and he's taken me out of that pit. My work, the things I do, I do now for him. I do it not just because I wanna provide for my family, but because I love God. [00:48:16] Jesse Schwamb: I want to be obedient in worshiping him, and part of how I worship him is doing my work this particular way. That's why you see me. Work like this. What a beautiful thing. Loved ones. [00:48:25] Final Thoughts and Encouragement [00:48:25] Jesse Schwamb: So there's so much I think for us to think about here. I could go on and on, and at this point, this is no longer a short episode. [00:48:32] Jesse Schwamb: You've gotten almost 50 minutes of me just talking. So I want to thank some people for good works right now. And that is. For those of you who have joined in the Telegram chat and are hanging out. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And there's so much good conversation going on there. Again, I gotta plug it. [00:48:48] Jesse Schwamb: If you haven't, if you're not in there, you're really missing out on this experience. It's not just hearing Tony and I talk. It's coming alongside and being integrated with all kinds of other brothers and sisters. So do yourself and us a favor and go to T Me Rhyme, see t me slash reform brotherhood and come hang out with us in addition. [00:49:10] Jesse Schwamb: I'm so grateful for all those who contribute to the podcast financially to make sure that just keeps going. If you've ever wondered like, how is this all free, and there's a website where I can go surf the back catalog@reformbrotherhood.com and it just shows up in my podcast feed, and it doesn't sound like they're in a tin can somewhere or in a hurricane recording this. [00:49:28] Jesse Schwamb: How does all of that happened? It happens because there's so many lovely brothers and sisters who's come alongside and said. Yeah, you know what? After all my responsibilities, I have a little bit left over and I wanna make sure that this thing just continues to keep going. And so I say to you, thank you so much. [00:49:43] Jesse Schwamb: If you would like to be a part of that and I challenge you, come join us in giving toward the podcast, Tony and I do. And there's somebody I love, our brothers and sisters who do as well. That's what makes this happen. You can go to patreon.com, reformed brotherhood, so we've got all kinds of good stuff coming up. [00:49:59] Jesse Schwamb: I love the fall season, autumn in the Western hemisphere here, because it feels like a reset in many ways. Like the kids go back to school, the weather changes depending on where you are, the

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

OPC pastor Christopher Drew guides us through the monumental 20th chapter of the Westminster Confession of Faith. Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UzQzFMXyKA Text: CHAPTER 20 Of Christian Liberty, and Liberty of Conscience 1. The liberty which Christ hath purchased for believers under the gospel consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin, the condemning wrath of God, the curse of the moral law; and, in their being delivered from this present evil world, bondage to Satan, and dominion of sin; from the evil of afflictions, the sting of death, the victory of the grave, and everlasting damnation; as also, in their free access to God, and their yielding obedience unto him, not out of slavish fear, but a childlike love and willing mind. All which were common also to believers under the law. But, under the new testament, the liberty of Christians is further enlarged, in their freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law, to which the Jewish church was subjected; and in greater boldness of access to the throne of grace, and in fuller communications of the free Spirit of God, than believers under the law did ordinarily partake of. 2. God alone is Lord of the conscience, and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are, in anything, contrary to his Word; or beside it, if matters of faith, or worship. So that, to believe such doctrines, or to obey such commands, out of conscience, is to betray true liberty of conscience: and the requiring of an implicit faith, and an absolute and blind obedience, is to destroy liberty of conscience, and reason also. 3. They who, upon pretense of Christian liberty, do practice any sin, or cherish any lust, do thereby destroy the end of Christian liberty, which is, that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies, we might serve the Lord without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 4. And because the powers which God hath ordained, and the liberty which Christ hath purchased, are not intended by God to destroy, but mutually to uphold and preserve one another, they who, upon pretense of Christian liberty, shall oppose any lawful power, or the lawful exercise of it, whether it be civil or ecclesiastical, resist the ordinance of God. And, for their publishing of such opinions, or maintaining of such practices, as are contrary to the light of nature, or to the known principles of Christianity (whether concerning faith, worship, or conversation), or to the power of godliness; or, such erroneous opinions or practices, as either in their own nature, or in the manner of publishing or maintaining them, are destructive to the external peace and order which Christ hath established in the church, they may lawfully be called to account, and proceeded against, by the censures of the church.

In this thought-provoking episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse explore the complex relationship between Christian vocation and professional ambition. Moving beyond the obvious prohibition of inherently sinful professions, they examine whether certain legitimate careers might still be inappropriate for Christians if they compromise our responsibilities to family and church. The hosts challenge the common assumption that Christians should seek maximum worldly influence, suggesting instead that faithfulness in our threefold calling—to work, family, and church—should guide our vocational choices. Drawing on Reformed theology's rich understanding of vocation, they offer practical wisdom for believers navigating career decisions and workplace responsibilities while maintaining spiritual priorities in a culture that often glorifies professional success at any cost. Key Takeaways Vocation is threefold: A proper understanding of Christian vocation includes responsibilities to our work, our families, and our church—not just our careers. Lord's Day conflicts: Professions that regularly prevent church attendance and Lord's Day observance may be inappropriate for Christians, regardless of their potential for influence or impact. Family obligations: Scripture teaches that Christians who neglect family responsibilities are "worse than unbelievers" (1 Tim. 5:8), suggesting that careers demanding excessive time away from family may be problematic. Christian influence vs. gospel proclamation: We must distinguish between transforming culture through worldly influence versus the actual proclamation of the gospel, which can happen at any level of employment. Sacrifice is expected: Following Christ often requires sacrificing career advancement, prestige, or financial gain to fulfill our primary callings. Priority check: When considering job opportunities, Christians should evaluate church options in a new location with the same care they give to schools, housing, and other community factors. God calls us to faithfulness: Our primary calling is to faithfulness in our responsibilities, not necessarily to positions of maximum influence or cultural power. Balancing the Threefold Calling The hosts challenge the idea that Christians should prioritize career advancement and influence above all else. They argue that vocation in the Reformed tradition encompasses more than just our paid work—it includes our responsibilities to family and church as well. This means that even if a career opportunity seems beneficial for "kingdom influence," we must evaluate whether it allows us to fulfill our other God-given duties. Tony points out that while some professions clearly contradict Christian ethics, others may subtly undermine our ability to be faithful in all areas of life. A high-powered executive role might provide platforms for influence but could require such time commitments that family relationships suffer or regular Lord's Day worship becomes impossible. As Jesse observes, "vocation is fundamentally God's doing," not simply about finding personal fulfillment or maximizing impact. This framework helps believers evaluate career choices more holistically. The Question of Christian Influence A central question emerges throughout the episode: Should Christians pursue positions of maximum influence to advance kingdom values? While this idea sounds appealing, the hosts suggest it often masks a "theology of glory" rather than embracing the "theology of the cross." Jesse notes that "God doesn't call us to necessarily have outside impact. What he's calling us to is faithfulness." They distinguish between the transformative power of the gospel—which can be proclaimed regardless of position—and other ways of transforming culture through worldly influence. Tony explains that "whether you're the janitor of the hospital or whether you're the CEO of the hospital, the gospel is the same and your role in proclaiming the gospel is the same." This perspective challenges Christians to reconsider whether pursuing leadership positions always aligns with God's calling, especially when such roles might compromise other spiritual obligations. The hosts argue that faithfulness in ordinary circumstances, not exceptional influence, should be our primary aim. Quotes "Would it be great if the CEO of a major Fortune 500 company could be a Christian? Yeah. That would be kind of cool. But if the trade-off is that person has to sacrifice their genuine Christian convictions, that's not worth it." - Tony Arsenal "I do think we have to sit back and ask, is that the calling? So that we're pursuing what is our vocation, not just our potential... I think there is a real temptation to somehow say like, what we need to do is to infiltrate in all the places. And I think what we mean by that is that things here will be better." - Jesse Schwamb "I think the Bible is clearer about a person who is taken away from their home more than is reasonable and more than is healthy for their family, or a Christian who never is able to worship on the Lord's day... than it is on something like identity politics and some of the tangential ways that might cause a person to need to compromise a little bit at a high level." - Tony Arsenal Practical Applications The hosts suggest several practical considerations for Christians evaluating career opportunities: Will this job regularly prevent Lord's Day worship? Does it require sacrificing time with family beyond what's reasonable? Could you negotiate Sabbath observance with potential employers? When relocating, evaluate church options with the same care given to schools and housing Consider whether a lower-paying job that allows faithfulness in all areas might be better than a higher-paying one that doesn't Full Transcript [00:00:00] Introduction and Episode Overview [00:00:08] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 458 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. [00:00:16] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast where even your work is unto the glory of God. Hey brother. Hey [00:00:24] Jesse Schwamb: brother. You know that's right. It [00:00:26] Tony Arsenal: is. That's why I said it. [00:00:28] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it was. That's a great way to open. We, I think from time to time come back to the topic of work and we've got a great, I think, conversation in the queue for this particular episode. [00:00:39] Jesse Schwamb: Now it's gonna sound maybe on the face. Right off the top here. Familiar. So of course, like we've talked before, how scripture makes it clear that Christians are to be salt and light in the world. And we've talked, I think, at length about, well, how exactly do we carry out that? And though we know that we're not saved by our good works. [00:00:57] Jesse Schwamb: Again, the Bible teaches very clearly that God expects good works from Christians, that that is in fact what he saves us to do. Again, we're not saved by those good works, but the question I think still remains, and we're gonna come to it in this conversation about what exactly does he want us to do and where does he want us to do it. [00:01:13] Jesse Schwamb: So in other words, we know that according to scripture, God providentially, governs and cares for his entire creation. So how does that play out in human society given the reality of sin? So we're gonna get to topics like. Well, should Christians be in every line of work? Is that the ideal? Are there jobs or positions or responsibilities that seemingly may not be obvious that Christians really shouldn't be a part of? [00:01:37] Jesse Schwamb: Because it takes them too far afield, maybe from the responsibilities that God gives us holistically to think of our calling is and our families and our churches in our work. So it's a bit more nuanced play of a conversation we had before, but hopefully something that's gonna have all kinds of practicality wrapped around it. [00:01:55] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. So that's what's coming. [00:01:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. I think this is gonna be a good conversation and I think I, I think this is one of those topics where like there's a lot of different angles to come at it from, right? We talk about vocation and work, and we've had those conversations before, and I think other shows and other venues have had that conversation before. [00:02:15] Tony Arsenal: I don't think that I've encountered a conversation really to this like angle of it. So I'm looking forward to this. [00:02:23] Jesse Schwamb: Me too. It's gonna be great. And of course, before we get to all that goodness, all that greatness, which I'm sure is about to transpire shortly and will be of course the definitive conversation, the one to end all to, I guess both to your point, bring it into the world. [00:02:36] Jesse Schwamb: Then to shut it down because we'll have accomplished both ends in just a single hour. [00:02:41] Affirmations and Denials [00:02:41] Jesse Schwamb: Before we get to that, let's do some affirming or denying. This is the part of our conversation where you and I always pick one thing either that we're affirming with and kind of the tradition of the reformed faith, where we take something that's undervalued or something that excites us, we think has great merit or worth, and we put out into the world and say, we're standing behind this thing, or conversely, we deny against it in that same kind of tradition by saying, this thing is overvalued, not worth it. [00:03:05] Jesse Schwamb: Not our jam. So in our tradition, I ask you are you affirming with something or are you not against something? [00:03:11] Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming with something specific that will lead to something general. So, okay. [00:03:16] Exploring AI in Learning [00:03:16] Tony Arsenal: I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I've been playing around with Google Gemini, which is Google's AI platform. [00:03:22] Tony Arsenal: And uh, I've been using it in a sort of interesting way. So Google has, uh, Gemini has these things called gems, which are basically like predefined personalities or predefined. I dunno, like instructions. So they have one gem that is a learning guide where basically you can give it a topic and it will, it will deliver mini lectures, give you quizzes, you can prompt it. [00:03:46] Tony Arsenal: So like I can paste in, um, you know, I can take in Lagos, I can paste a copy of the Bible, like a chapter of the Bible into the learning guide. It'll summarize it, it'll ask me questions. It'll basically gimme many lectures on it. Um, that's the specific thing. This is such a cool technology. And in my mind, this is really where AI is strong, is that you can take large sections of text and it will summarize it and synthesize it into a very usable format. [00:04:14] Tony Arsenal: Um, so what I've been doing, like I said, is I'll read, I'll read a, a chunk of text from whatever it is I'm reading, and then I'll copy and paste that entire chunk of text if it's an electronic text into the learning. Learning guide module and ask it to act as like a seminary lecturer and quiz me on the content. [00:04:33] Tony Arsenal: Um, which really helps to solidify the content I'm reading rather than just passing my eyes over it. I'm actually, um, processing it and retaining it more. I think you could probably do something similar with just about any AI platform if you had the right kind of prompt, which is where the general one comes in. [00:04:50] Tony Arsenal: And I would encourage you, listener to think a little bit about how you might utilize this, because I think we all read lots and lots of things. Our, our, um, particular audience tends to be a little bookish, and so I'm sure we're all reading things as we go, but I'm not sure we're always processing things in the most effective way. [00:05:07] Tony Arsenal: So think a little bit about like how you might use something like chat, GPT, which is available for free, or Claude, which is available for free to do this kind of like. Almost like simulated classroom lecture. Um, and I know there are some questions about ai. Like I, I heard an argument that ai, when you're generating content is, is a sort of form of sophisticated, uh, plagiarism, which I'm not sure I buy it, but I understand the argument. [00:05:33] Tony Arsenal: This is something very different where you're really just using the, using the AI to synthesize and summarize text and sort of spit it back to you in a new format. Um, you're not trying to generate anything new. You're not trying to create anything. That you're gonna publish or anything like that. It's really just a, a form of synthesis. [00:05:49] Tony Arsenal: So I've really found this to be super beneficial. Um, I'm having a really great time at it. I'm, I'm using it for language studies, so I'm reading through mount's basics, biblical Greek. And I'll copy and paste the whole chapter in, ask it to act as a lecturer, and it will walk me through the chapter. It'll stop to do quizzes. [00:06:08] Tony Arsenal: It'll drill me on vocab as I'm going. And then when, when I up, the instruction I get is, don't move forward until you are convinced that I've mastered the content. And so when I get something wrong, it goes back and makes me redo it. So it continues to iterate until it's, until the AI has. Synthesize that I have mastered the content, and then it asks me to provide the next chapter. [00:06:30] Tony Arsenal: So it's a cool technology. It's a, it's a sort of novel use for the technology. Um, again, Google has built in modules that do this, but I think you could probably use chat, GPT or Claude or Orrock or whatever AI model you're using to accomplish the same goal. [00:06:45] Jesse Schwamb: There's no doubt that AI is great for like building study notes, helping you create space, repetition, all those like little hacks that we have long talked about. [00:06:53] Jesse Schwamb: And this provides it to you in a really bespoke course customized way, but it gets you involved. I'm with you if you wanna do this the old fashioned way. I'll go back to something I I've affirmed with before and that's this very famous book originally authored in the 1940s called How to Read a Book by Mor Mortimer, j Adler, and that is an exercise. [00:07:13] Jesse Schwamb: Helping you do some of that stuff in real time as well. Yeah, so I think there'd be a lovely compliment to say you're reading actively and then you get to test immediately that active reading by way of using ai. So even before, like, maybe even just jumping to like, well, let me read it, but I'm, I'm gonna trust that AI's gonna really kind of supplement me or fill in the gaps and just gimme what I need to know. [00:07:33] Jesse Schwamb: Trying to do that in real time. Pausing in your reading. Again, kind of studying as you go along, thinking out loud through what you've just read and then saying, alright, now test me is a great way to, 'cause who wants to like read stuff unless you can remember this stuff and then unless you can apply it, right? [00:07:48] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. So it's such a joy to be able to read things and then to remember. And if you haven't had that experience yet, I like your affirmation. I think this is a great way to test it out. [00:07:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, just to maybe flesh this out. So I, I asked it to, and I'm, I'm doing this sort of as an experiment just to see how it works, but also just 'cause it's, it's useful. [00:08:06] Tony Arsenal: I asked it to act as a seminary lecturer and I copied and paste the entire first chapter of the Westminster Confession. And rather than split it up by section and actually combined paragraphs that were. Um, related to each other. So it combined the list of Bible, uh, books, and then the chapter on apocrypha and gave me some like lectures. [00:08:25] Tony Arsenal: But here's what it said about, um, about chapter 10. It says, paragraph 10, declares the supreme judge can be no other than the Holy Spirit speaking scripture. This is the ultimate outworking of sola Scripture, means that every other authority is lesser authority that must submit to the judgment of the word of God. [00:08:42] Tony Arsenal: This includes decrees of church counsels. Opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, private spirits. It goes on for a little while longer. Then it says, I will give you a brief final quiz covering the whole of chapter one, and it asks questions like A historian makes the following claim. The Bible only has authority. [00:08:59] Tony Arsenal: It does because influential councils in the early church, like the Council of Carthage officially voted on which books would be included in the cannon. The church therefore gave the Bible its authority drawing from your knowledge of paragraphs three, uh, three, four, and five. Provide a two-part critique of the historian statement. [00:09:16] Tony Arsenal: Which then I had to type it out. It critiqued, um, it analyzed my answer. Um, I happened to get that question right. I did at one point think maybe this is actually just like finding a way to say everything that I say is right. So I purposely put a wrong answer in and it did identify that the answer was wrong, and then it made me go back and revisit that content. [00:09:35] Tony Arsenal: So it's very, it's a very cool use case. I'm glad that Google kind of built this in. They have all sorts of other gems. If you have, if you have a way to get access to Google Gemini, um. It's not the best AI for everything, but it's got, it's pretty versatile. It's got a lot of utility, so check it out. [00:09:53] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that sounds great. [00:09:53] Jesse Schwamb: Again, there's all kinds of fun things I think we could be using AI for to help us be better learners or to really enjoy our interaction with data and information more. Yeah. It is a really great way to conversationally help you to learn something, and that's what makes it so much better. It stands way far apart from, again, just leading, just reading or just creating flashcards or even just, just creating study notes, but that back and forth to test you on something, even if it's just like casual knowledge that you can really want to internalize. [00:10:21] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I found that to be super valuable. Again, like, man, if you're a learner, if you're a reader, if you're a human being, what an amazing time to live in the world where data is so prevalent, but it's increasingly being brought into a place where we can put our arms around it in a way in which we're trying to really understand it. [00:10:38] Jesse Schwamb: You know, I think about how we used to search for something, I mean. Used to like this that like, that wasn't like last year. You know what I mean? Like we just go on to our, your favorite search engine. Type in a topic or maybe type in even a specific question. And at best you'd have to sort through this litany, this plethora, this morass of all these links about articles that may pertain to what you asked. [00:10:58] Jesse Schwamb: Or maybe they pertain to it generally, but not really specifically. Yeah. The specificity with which you can have a conversational interaction that engenders knowledge is wild. I mean, I really think that is like the huge play of ai. Just lean into it and enjoy it. [00:11:12] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. Jesse, what are you affirming or denying tonight? [00:11:16] Nasal Spray Affirmation [00:11:16] Jesse Schwamb: I'm going a totally different direction. It's an affirmation, but I'm taking it from my ears, nose, nose, and throat doctor who affirmed this to me, so I might be totally late on this. There are very few things that I can say like somebody's recommended to me or affirm. It's been like absolute game changer, like just drop dead from the first moment I used it or employed the thing that it just changed everything. [00:11:38] Jesse Schwamb: This is one of those things. Which maybe I've just already oversold, but the affirmation is with something called it's, it's spelled X-L-E-A-R, I think it's still pronounced clear, but it's called literally phonetically XL nasal spray, and it's a. This doesn't sound very exciting, but bear with me everybody. [00:11:57] Jesse Schwamb: It's a natural, non-addictive saline nasal spray featuring Zi Atol as its primary active ingredient. So if you're not familiar with Zi Atol, which I wasn't until I went to my ENT by the way I've seen for many years and only just recommended this to me. So I had some words 'cause I was working, where's this been all my life. [00:12:14] Jesse Schwamb: But Zito is a naturally occurring alcohol sugar. It's found in like many fruits and vegetables, and it can be commercially produced from like birch wine or corn fiber. It looks and tastes similar to like table sugar, but it contains fewer calories, so it can be used and is often used as like a sweetener in sugar-free foods like chewing gum, mint candies, jam, stuff like that. [00:12:35] Jesse Schwamb: Here's one of the strange side effects. That they notice though about Zi atol, and that is it totally, uh, cleanses, moisturizes and soos nasal passages. And it gives you all kinds of relief from like common congestion stuff like colds, allergies, low humidity, humidity, science, pressure, stuff like that. What it does is it actually breaks down or lubricates your inner nasal passages, including like flushing out the mucus. like it works actually with your body. So what's amazing is it's, it's really great for, it's kinda like a soap for the nose. It clears up bacteria, pollens, dander, molds, like all kinds of irritants. [00:13:14] Jesse Schwamb: It also studies have shown blocks, adhesion of other pathogens like bacterial, fungal, viral to the mucosal tissues, helping the body to wash them away. So [00:13:23] Jesse Schwamb: this thing is absolutely. Wild. And I can say for certain that if you're the kind of person like me, where let's say like you're, you're hitting the Flonase hard at different seasons because you got those seasonal allergies because of the fall and because sin is real. I'm with you. That dries out your nose. [00:13:42] Jesse Schwamb: This thing is like a, a sauna or a spa for your nose, and then it literally like clears everything out. It's almost magical. I, I'm serious. It's so fantastic. So if you've been looking for something to really help with that and it, again, it's safe. There's no drug in it. It's not addictive, so you can use it all the time. [00:13:58] Jesse Schwamb: It's just saline and zi etol. It is phenomenal. So go get yourself, do yourself a favor. Do, do your, do your nose and your sinuses a solid and, and get the solids outta them by using. X clear. I feel like a bat just flew by your face or like a giant bird. [00:14:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. So, uh, first of all, that sounds like a really great thing to check out. [00:14:22] Tony Arsenal: Is this clear stuff? Um, I have had struggles with like sinus infections over the last couple years, so I'm gonna check this out when it gets to allergy season in the fall year. [00:14:32] Hummingbird Moth Encounter [00:14:32] Tony Arsenal: But yes, uh, one of the rare, uh, moths that I've learned lives near my house is called a, uh, what's it called? Uh. It commonly, it's called like a hummingbird moth. [00:14:44] Tony Arsenal: Have you heard of these things? Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, I've never seen them before, but the reason they're called hummingbird moths is 'cause they look like hummingbirds, but they're actually moths and I right now. Hopefully this will change eventually, but. It will have to, 'cause it gets cold here. Um, I'm recording outside and a hummingbird moth literally just flew between my computer and my face. [00:15:05] Tony Arsenal: Um, I wasn't talking at the time so you wouldn't be able to see it on the screen, which is too bad. Uh, but yeah, Jesse saw me freak out a little bit, which is uh, which is fine. [00:15:16] Jesse Schwamb: It happened the [00:15:16] Tony Arsenal: first time I saw one. I was like, is that a huge bee? No, it's just a hummingbird broth. [00:15:21] Jesse Schwamb: Somebody, everybody should look them up though, because they're kind of wild looking. [00:15:25] Jesse Schwamb: Like if you've seen it in real life, they have that hummingbird pose where the body, body is kind of laid back and the wings are going crazy. Like they literally do hover like that. Yeah. And they're, they're almost that big. The one that tried to attack you there was pretty large. [00:15:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. They don't, um, they, they. [00:15:41] Tony Arsenal: Move a little different than hummingbirds, which is why the first time that I saw one, I thought it was a bee. Um, because when they, when they land on a flower, they crawl inside the flower the same way that a, like a bee or a bumblebee will, um, they don't hover outside the flower like a hummingbird, but they do. [00:15:57] Tony Arsenal: They, their body is, I mean, their body is probably an, an inch and a half long like a hummingbird. Um, and it's thick like a hummingbird. They don't look like moths at all. So I'm not sure they must be part of the Moth family, I guess. Um, I'm trying to remember. It's. They have like a specific name, I wanna say Scarab, but that's not right. [00:16:14] Tony Arsenal: But it's something like that is the, the technical name of it. They're like a scarab moth or something like that. But [00:16:20] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, I've just come up. It's a wild name. [00:16:22] Tony Arsenal: This is your top 50 Entomology, uh, podcast apparently. As well as the top 50 health cath. We're gonna, we're gonna uh, com combine the two tonight, so yeah, I'm gonna check that out in the, the spring or in the fall here, Jesse. [00:16:34] Tony Arsenal: My, my allergies always go a little bit crazy when we get to September. Yeah. With all the, like leaves falling down and crumbling up and stuff, it just gets in the air, so I'll just, I'll spray some artificial sugar. It's not artificial. I'll spray some pseudo sugar in my nose and see what happens. [00:16:48] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. It does have the added benefit that because it is a naturally occurring. [00:16:53] Jesse Schwamb: Sugar, like it's a type of sugar alcohol that if it drips down the back of your throat, all you get is a little like, mm, sweet. [00:17:03] Tony Arsenal: I wanna know who the first guy who was like, let me put some of this fake sugar in my nose and see what happens was it's, [00:17:09] Jesse Schwamb: I'm telling you, it, it's better than any actual, like, prescribed nasal spray I've ever taken. [00:17:15] Jesse Schwamb: You can get it like just at your g it. Yeah. Or you can get it on Amazon. I, I will, I forgot about it for a while. I, maybe I use it daily now it's become my go-to. But I mean, I don't wanna make this weird or gross, but it's the kind of thing like if you wake up in the morning and you're stuffy and you, it feels like somebody parked like a bus way up in your sinus cavity. [00:17:32] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And you're like, I can't even blow my nose. There's nothing there where, where's all this stuff? There's nothing there. If you use this, when I use this within two, two, I'd say like seven minutes, I can just. Drop a huge load of mucus right outta my face and you feel like a million bucks. I don't know how to describe it. [00:17:49] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's like better than like a sinus rinse or a netty pot. I know this sounds wild, like I'm way too excited about this stuff, but that clear spray is wild. And what I especially love is that it's all natural, that I'm not doing any harm to my nose or my face by using it. And that it, I just feel better afterwards because it's like moisturized everything. [00:18:08] Jesse Schwamb: So, and there's, there's, the debate is I think ongoing. There's a lot apparently, because I went down the rabbit trail and looked at all these scholarly studies and peer-reviewed journal papers, all this stuff. There's a lot, I guess, uh, still somewhat in debate about like its ability to really help prevent certain things like COVID, any kind of like nasal airborne kind of like, yeah, because it helps to flush and it prevents literally bacteria from sticking, uh, inside your nasal passages. [00:18:34] Jesse Schwamb: So that could be a benefit. I can't say anything about that. I'm not a doctor. What, [00:18:40] Tony Arsenal: what I would love is, uh, if you are a listener who has seasonal allergies or whatever, uh, if you would join our telegram chat at t.me/reform brotherhood. Well done. We have what's normally a tastings channel, which is like people get like new foods they wanna check out, or a beer they like or whatever, and they'll, uh, they'll do a little tasting and a review. [00:19:04] Tony Arsenal: I would love if some people would join the channel and do some, some clear, clear. We'll go clear, uh, a tasting of this nasal spray. Yeah, please don't show us. 'cause that's disgusting. Right. But, uh, let us know. Let us know what you think of it. I think that'd be great. So that's t me slash Reform Brotherhood. [00:19:21] Jesse Schwamb: There you go. Come hang out with us. It's a lot of fun. I see we've had some people join that group this week, so I see you out there, brother Sean. Crushing it, getting in the mix. Welcome everybody. Come again. Spend a little time in there. And there's, I love that the channel for like the conversation about our episodes is. [00:19:37] Jesse Schwamb: Hot. It's going strong. I love that. And we gave the call last week. You should listen to last week's episode when we were really speaking about, uh, God's faithfulness and a challenge of how we seek after piety, under the care and the direction, the kind direction and the convicting influence of the Holy Spirit. [00:19:55] Jesse Schwamb: So many good things were said there. I really loved reading all those. And it probably goes without saying, but I'm gonna mention it anyway. You and I read everything that pops in there. Yeah. For the most part. I mean, sometimes I look at it and there's 150 messages, right? And um, it got wild. But I go back through and always, always read those. [00:20:10] Jesse Schwamb: But I especially love like the conversation when we invite people to say, like, now it's, we'd love to hear from you. And so I think that's gonna be a large part of what we talk about. On this episode as well. [00:20:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. So, Jesse, why don't you lead us in here. This was the topic you brought up. I think it's a great one. [00:20:25] Tony Arsenal: I'd love to to dive into it here. [00:20:27] Christian Vocation and Work [00:20:27] Jesse Schwamb: I think one of the things that Christians always have to come to terms with at some point, every generation has to, but every person as well is, so where is my role as Christ child in something we might generally call like Christian activism? By which I mean like, of course, like Christians. [00:20:44] Jesse Schwamb: Attempt to improve or influence society through time, especially in our work. And as I was thinking about this recently, I think one of the hard things we have to measure out is well. Are there different places where we would, there's certainly jobs where we say Christians shouldn't hold that position because it contravenes God's law directly. [00:21:05] Jesse Schwamb: But what about these kind of, as we've talked about before, this threefold responsibility that we have in our callings, which you can go back to our previous catalog, which is all in the reform brotherhood.com, by the way. Listen to where we talked about this idea of like the vocation that happens in our work, in our households, in our church, and is it possible that in the work sphere that there are jobs that like Christians just shouldn't hold because it takes them too far away from their responsibilities in the other two spheres, which there are equally parts of their vocation, or if we want to put like a really fine point in it, and I don't really mean to derail the conversation with this question, but this would be exemplifying kind of what we're after here, which was like, should Christians be involved and. [00:21:47] Jesse Schwamb: In politics, are there other jobs like that where we'd say, listen, we, we tr we trust God in his sovereign superintendent will that he's always doing his good work. And you and I have talked at length about what it means to be living in the, under the normal principle of God using ordinary, normal means to do great and extraordinary things. [00:22:06] Jesse Schwamb: So how does all of that fit with our work? Are there lines to be drawn or. Does it not really matter? [00:22:15] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I think for the sake of our conversation, we can just sort of take some professions off the table. Right? Of course, there are some professions of course, and calling them professions is probably even, probably even a misnomer. [00:22:27] Tony Arsenal: But there are some ways to earn money that are just intrinsically sinful that are outside of the scope of the conversation, right? You can't, uh, there's no argument for a Christian to become like. An assassin or like a drug dealer or a prostitute, like, there's no, there's no valid argument or discussion to be had around those. [00:22:45] Tony Arsenal: So we can just exclude those entirely. But I think for, for the sake of this conversation, we're talking about professions that do not involve, intrinsically involve sin, um, and, and may or may not have, um. Prudential reasons why they are not the best idea. Right. So I, I'm thinking like, the one that came to mind when you asked this was like, and it's funny because I, um, I mentioned the topic to my wife and, you know, she kind of joked, I was like, well, yeah, like Christians can't be. [00:23:15] Tony Arsenal: Can't like be porn stars, like that's not something you can do as a Christian. But then, then I, she said, well, what, what other professions would it be? I said, well, like, like a professional football player, right? And like the question is like, can a Christian be a professional football player? I think instinctively, right? [00:23:29] Tony Arsenal: We all say yes. But, but is that actually true? Right. And, and I would, I would make the argument that no, like a Christian can't be a professional football player or really, really any kind of professional sports, um, figure because it, it necessarily takes you away from the gathered fellowship of Christians on the Lord's day on far too often a basis. [00:23:47] Tony Arsenal: Right? I don't think you can make a good prudential argument to say like, well. It's fine for a Christian to be absent from the lord's uh, Lord's Day worship in his congregation of membership, you know, 60% of the time. Like, I just don't think you can make that argument. So I think in a lot of these cases, the immediate instinctive answer is yes. [00:24:07] Tony Arsenal: Uh. Christians can be part of any profession, and there's a certain, there's a certain way that that's true, but when we actually start to look at the way some professions actually play out, we have to analyze that a lot deeper. And this is actually not all that different than our conversation last week. [00:24:23] Tony Arsenal: Right. Involving like a. Pop culture and like media consumption is we have to look at what is actually, what the actual cost is. Uh, opportunity cost, I guess if we want to use like economic terms, what the actual opportunity cost is here of a particular profession in respect of. Our obligations and our commitments as a Christian and our obligation to the law of God, our obligation to our Christian brothers and sisters, all of that. [00:24:49] Tony Arsenal: So I think this is gonna be a great conversation. I'm excited to get into it. Um, but I do think it's one that we should think through a little bit more than just sort of like our gut reaction. Like we, of course, Christians can be involved in any profession. [00:25:00] Jesse Schwamb: Let me add to that. 'cause that's perfect. That's exactly, you're not on the same page as usual. [00:25:04] Jesse Schwamb: That's exactly where my mind was going. And what makes like this such a rich opportunity to really explore what the scripture has to say about this particular topic? I think you're right on that we need to weigh out, which we often just kind of glance over. What are the other responsibilities by taking on a particular line of work or job. [00:25:20] Jesse Schwamb: Does that necessarily mean that we must sacrifice and preclude these other areas? We should have direct or more intimate involvement because that is also part of vocation. Part of that, like we've talked about at length before, is responsibility in the Lord's day. So we might set that up as one particular test. [00:25:36] Jesse Schwamb: To that end, another one might be exactly what you were saying. So here's like the opposite of like the professional footballer or American football or whatever. Pick your, pick your sports. What about like high level? High responsibility, let's say leadership positions like in all kinds of areas of industry that would require the man or the woman to, let's say, like be on call continually, or maybe to sacrifice long hours at that job as part and parcel of what's required to do it effectively. [00:26:04] Jesse Schwamb: And that might mean that necessarily like not being very connected with family or having to be away from their family a lot of the time. I think what we often come to is this idea that, wouldn't it be great if Christians were just everywhere and were infiltrating all the things all the time at all the levels. [00:26:21] Jesse Schwamb: I think the question here that's under the surface is, is that what God assigns in a life of vocation? And maybe it's, it's of course more nuance than that and it could be for the person. Again, I wanna be clear that, like we said before, vocation is a very specific and narrow term in that we're talking about an actual calling being called out for a particular purpose. [00:26:42] Jesse Schwamb: And if we're using that in the right way, then it's possible that with the exception of some things like the Lord's Day, the other thing I just talked about, season of life. And your particular commitments or entanglements, they might be different from person to person. Therefore, allow for a direct call that God gives to a particular purpose at a particular time. [00:27:01] Jesse Schwamb: I think what I'm really kind of weighing out here is if we understand how the reformers viewed all of this. We have to come to this conclusion that God assigns us a life and then God calls us to that life. And that really is what vocation is all about. And notice in that there's nothing that's said about choosing a vocation or finding your true vocation or being fulfilled even in your vocation. [00:27:24] Jesse Schwamb: We may experience a struggle with all of that, but vocation is fundamentally God's doing. So what is. God doing in our society. And as you said, are there roles that he's, in a way not calling, let's say like the, the quintessential or the normative, I don't wanna say average 'cause that implies the weird thing, but Right. [00:27:44] Jesse Schwamb: Kind of Christian too. And I think. We've gotta, we've gotta wrestle with that because you're right. Like we too often just run to, we need Christians in all the places now let's get them everywhere. Doing all the things. Yeah. And that might be good from our perspective, because Christians should be the best workers as we said that we should. [00:28:01] Jesse Schwamb: The most kind. There is the salt in lights everywhere. However, it takes a Christian to do all those things. And can a Christian in certain roles have great fidelity to the threefold? [00:28:13] Exploring the Theology of Work and the Lord's Day [00:28:13] Jesse Schwamb: Calling and vocation of life while upholding certain jobs and responsibilities. [00:28:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think, um, I think that may be like a little bit of progam is, is warranted here too. [00:28:26] Tony Arsenal: Like there, you know, there's the, the, the conversation at the top of like, some, some professions are just out of bounds. Yeah. Um, but there's also, you know, a pretty robust theology. And I think a lot of this is gonna center around. Uh, maybe just for simplicity's sake and for the fact that we have 30 minutes left of a conversation that probably could be multiple hours, um, there's a pretty robust apparatus in reform theology that is designed to help Christians understand whether or not, um. [00:28:57] Tony Arsenal: A particular activity is acceptable on the Lord's day. And we've, we've had conversations in the past about like, if, if all of your theology of the Lord's Day is about what you can and can't do, then you're missing the point entirely. [00:29:11] Jesse Schwamb: That's right. [00:29:11] Tony Arsenal: But there is an element of what you can and can't do in terms of understanding the Lord's day. [00:29:16] Tony Arsenal: Right. We're, we're not supposed to engage in worldly recreation or employment on the Lord's day. So we have to talk about what that means. And so I think. [00:29:24] Works of Necessity and Charity on the Lord's Day [00:29:24] Tony Arsenal: I think to start with, like there's categories, like works of necessity, works of charity, um, that, or, or like works of ministry, which would, would sort of be a third category that's not necessarily, um, not necessarily enumerated in many of the sources, but it's assumed that like pastors who are working on the Lord's day are not, they're not violating the Sabbath by doing the work on the Sabbath. [00:29:47] Tony Arsenal: Um, I think we have to have those categories. 'cause I think that helps us inform too, like. If you are the CEO of a major retailer, does that mean you have to work on Sunday, right? Well, probably it does. Like, it probably means that on a regular basis you're gonna be checking emails on your phone, you're gonna be taking phone calls. [00:30:05] Tony Arsenal: You've got, you might have partners in markets overseas where it, it's Sunday morning for you, but it's Monday afternoon or you know, Monday morning for them or something like that. Um. I think that the industry you're in largely is going to drive whether that's an acceptable or, or an appropriate role for you. [00:30:24] Tony Arsenal: So I could see a situation where you could make the argument that being the CEO of a of a major medical center, right. Where the work that's being done at the medical center falls easily within that sort of definition of, uh, works of necessity. A nurse who is working in the emergency room or a police officer or a firefighter or somebody who is fixing the power, like in our society, right? [00:30:47] Tony Arsenal: Electricity is, is not an option for most people. It's not a, it's not a luxury for most people. So those, those professions. It's acceptable to work on the Lord's Day when it's a work of necessity, and so the higher level leadership positions that make those possible and constrain them also, I think. Would fall under that same work of necessity. [00:31:06] Tony Arsenal: If the CEO of my hospital, I don't know if she's a Christian or not. I, I'm, I'm not speculating on that, but if, if the CEO of my hospital was a Christian or is a Christian and she has to take an important phone call on Sunday morning and miss the Lord's day because if she doesn't take care of that, the hospital's not gonna function correctly and people may not have emergency services. [00:31:26] Tony Arsenal: I don't think that's a violation of the south principle. If the same scenario is happening and it's the CEO of Best Buy and they need to take a phone call, otherwise people won't be able to buy widgets on Sunday afternoon, that's a different calculation. So I think like right off the bat, we have to start having those conversations about what's the nature of the work, what's the, what's the tell loss of the work or the end aim of the work. [00:31:46] Tony Arsenal: That's really important as well. [00:31:48] Balancing Professional Responsibilities and Christian Obligations [00:31:48] Jesse Schwamb: So it sounds like though what we're saying, both of us in a way, is that if you run that test, so to speak, like you go through that algorithm and you come out with this idea that you know, it's, you're saying your industry is more like Best Buy and less like your local hospital, then there might be significant and maybe insurmountable roadblocks to taking that position Should be as a c. [00:32:08] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I mean, that's kinda what we're saying. [00:32:10] Tony Arsenal: Oh yeah, for sure. And you know, like this is a real world application I think for a lot of people. I remember when I was in college, um, I had the opportunity to take a promotion. I worked at Best Buy. I, I'm not using Best Buy as an example for any specific reason, but I worked at Best Buy. [00:32:23] Tony Arsenal: I worked in the Geek Squad area and I had the opportunity to take a promotion. Um, and the sort of the strings that came with the promotion is that I was expected to be available to work on Sundays. I didn't have a super robust doctrine of the Lord's Day at the time. Like I wasn't super theologically versed on Sabbath theology and stuff. [00:32:39] Tony Arsenal: Um, but it just didn't sit right with me. And so initially I didn't take the, I didn't take the, um, promotion because I didn't feel comfortable saying at the time, it was mostly about like, I'm not gonna miss the church service. I didn't feel comfortable saying I need to be available. And that might mean I Ms. [00:32:57] Tony Arsenal: Church to, to be able to take this shift. Um, eventually the management adapted and said, well, we'll just figure out something else. We really want you to take the position, but that's the kind of question we have to ask. And then that same question, as you move up in an organization, it expands and you're more likely to need to be drawn away from Lord State worship or just general. [00:33:19] Tony Arsenal: Obligations on the Lord's Day. [00:33:20] Personal Experiences and Real-World Applications [00:33:20] Tony Arsenal: And I don't wanna make this entirely about the Lord's Day 'cause there are other obligations that Christians have and it probably will be interesting to get to those. But I think, um, the, the other thing maybe that I wanna push back on a little bit too is I. I, I've never been a CEO. [00:33:34] Tony Arsenal: I probably never will be a CEO. You're far closer to a CEO than I ever will be. But I think a lot of times we assume those positions have no flexibility. Right. But in reality, some of those people are absolutely able to say, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take Sunday, and just not. Yes, I'm not gonna do work on Sunday. [00:33:52] Tony Arsenal: I'm gonna delegate that. You know? And then this is a whole other question. I'm gonna delegate that to someone else. Well, there's a whole different question that comes with that, but saying like, I'm just not going to do work on Sunday is actually within the options for a lot of positions. So that's the other question is when we take a position, do we have the option to set aside the Lord's Day? [00:34:11] Tony Arsenal: Even if we might acknowledge that occasionally, that's not gonna work out. There are oftentimes in all of our lives that we're drawn away from being able to fulfill our ordinary obligation of the Lord's Day, and I don't think that that's intrinsically sinful. If on a rare occasion you're not able to attend the Lord's Day worship or something like that. [00:34:29] Tony Arsenal: So I think those are questions we have to ask. Then what? What kind of other Christian obligations do we have? And this is hypothetical, but you're welcome to answer if you've got one in mind. Like what other kinds of Christian obligations do we have that any particular vocation or particular job might make difficult or impossible to fulfill? [00:34:47] Tony Arsenal: I think those are questions we have to ask. [00:34:49] Jesse Schwamb: I'm with you. And that's actually more where my mind goes because again, we've talked before and for some Christians it's easier to identify the stuff that certainly explicitly contravenes the Lord's Day. And I think it's more difficult to say like we, again, I think we talked before about that threefold responsibility and the vocation that is to like work that is like our industry, so to speak, and then to our household, then to our church. [00:35:10] Jesse Schwamb: So the church often does. Again, in a very finely pointed way, connect very tightly with the Lord. Say what about that household stuff? Yeah. So what about these jobs that would just make you too busy? And I think like what's interesting to your point is I agree. Like I think part of this conversation is just a thoughtful assessment of what the job entails, and then even as like maybe you're taking a job or considering a job. [00:35:33] Jesse Schwamb: Having a conversation with your potential employer about what opportunity is there for flexibility given like certain convictions that you have? All of that could fall into place neatly and I think would still be within the bounds of yes, but I think part of this is if it's truly a calling that we, we have to be praying through it and assessing whether God is calling us through that. [00:35:50] Jesse Schwamb: Part of that is passing it through the sin of what the scriptures require in each of those threefold vocational responsibilities. So sometimes I hear there is like a pushback or counter, this argument says, but wouldn't it be better? [00:36:01] The Role of Christians in Leadership Positions [00:36:01] Jesse Schwamb: Wouldn't it be fantastic if you get a Christian as an opportunity to be a CEO? [00:36:05] Jesse Schwamb: Isn't it better for them to be a CEO and to be in that role, even if they're crazy busy, even if they're sacrificing so much for their family, for their household or for the church because they simply, they're gonna be a Christian and think of the role model and the emphasis and the impact they can have. [00:36:19] Jesse Schwamb: And to that, I would say we gotta be really careful with that loved ones because God, I don't think God's calling us to necessarily have outside impact. What he's calling us to is, is faithfulness. Invocation, invocation pulls us back into those three responsibilities, and we know the way in which God prefers to work His jam is these ordinary means, these natural ways of in the normative work of our lives and faithfulness showing that his power is demonstrated in this weakness. [00:36:44] Jesse Schwamb: Somehow we're back to the theology of. Glory and theology of cross. But you know, it's interesting to me that there are no calls like in the entire scriptures, of course, to withdraw into like a private ghetto or to take back the realms of cultural and political activity. And so I think we have to be really careful about even how we kind of pull that into then how. [00:37:03] Jesse Schwamb: Our jobs that like, shouldn't it be my goal as a Christian to get as most influence as possible? And I think I wanna push back on that and say like, you know, the, the church, the Christian exists within the world as a community of word and sacrament. But it doesn't always have to seek influence in larger society. [00:37:19] Jesse Schwamb: It can. It can. And when God provides the opportunity by way of clear calling, I think internal and external that is appropriate. However, often that calling is gonna come at a much more normative level, I think. And, and I do not believe that we are somehow compromising or sub-optimizing the work that God does in the world merely because we might have a Christian that says, I don't know if it's right for me to be in this leadership role, and therefore a unbeliever is going to vault above that person's speaker or take that role on that somehow. [00:37:51] Jesse Schwamb: Again, God's superintendent will, or his strong arm is, is somehow pulled aback from what he wants to do that we need like more Christian plumbing in the world. I do kind of bristle that idea a little bit. Specifically because I wonder if sometimes we go outside of that calling. [00:38:08] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, I'm picking up what you're putting down and I think, I think there's, um, it, it does all come back to theology, the cross theology of glory. [00:38:17] Tony Arsenal: And I'm glad that, that, that conversation happened before this. 'cause I think there's good framework there. I, I think, um, we, we as Christians can often confuse. The transformative power of the gospel with other ways of transforming culture. Yeah, that's good. Right. So, um, it is totally, um, I wanna be careful how I phrase this. [00:38:42] Tony Arsenal: I'm not post mill, I'm probably never gonna be post mill, but I'm okay with a kind of post mill theology that says that the gospel of Jesus Christ, as people become Christians, the culture will. Change along with that. And the gospel has a transformative power in that it changes individuals and individuals make up, make up the broader society. [00:39:05] Tony Arsenal: And so the society itself changes. Where I struggle with some flavors of postal theology, and this is where I think the theology of glory comes in, is there are some kinds of postal theology I'm thinking, I'm thinking, um, like Doug Wilson, they just, uh, opened A-C-R-A-C church in Washington, DC specifically with the goal of gaining influence with politicians. [00:39:26] Tony Arsenal: Right. I might be misconstruing that a little bit 'cause I haven't read all of it, but that's, that's the impression that I'm getting from some of their promotional material. I, I think we can, we can look at it and say the gospel can change culture as the gospel. And so where that. [00:39:43] Sacrifices and Priorities in Christian Vocation [00:39:43] Tony Arsenal: Levels of playing field is that whether you are, and this is where I think a genuine Protestant reform theology of vocation comes in, whether you're the janitor of the hospital or whether you're the CEO of the hospital, the gospel is the same and your role in proclaiming the gospel is the same. [00:39:58] Tony Arsenal: And you might have more people's ear as the CEO than you do as the janitor. Although I would maybe question that knowing how many people janitors interact with at the hospital, um, you may have more people's ears in a higher level position, but the message that you're proclaiming, the influence that you're wielding or you're using, I don't know what you wanna say. [00:40:18] Tony Arsenal: It's not different because it's still just the gospel. [00:40:21] Jesse Schwamb: That's good. [00:40:21] Tony Arsenal: Um. Where I think we can get confused is when we look at it and say, but we have these other opportunities to transfer, transform the culture by, um, for example, I, I'm the supervisor in my patient relations department. I'm making changes to the, to the policy and the way that we as a sort of service recovery resolution group, the way that we interact with patients, I'm making changes to that. [00:40:46] Tony Arsenal: I think those changes are consistent with the law of God as revealed in the light of nature, and I'm. I'm informed of those things and my whole outlook and ethos is shaped by the scriptures, but. I don't see the transformation of the way we interact with patients as somehow propagating the gospel, right? [00:41:05] Tony Arsenal: So we can, we can make transformation and make society better, right? If you're a politician, you can, you can legislate things that make society more outwardly in conformity with the law of God or more pleasant and more prosperous, and more flourishing, and those are all fine and well, but that's not. [00:41:21] Tony Arsenal: Building the kingdom of God in, in a strict sense. Right? And so I think what we're getting at is our, would it be great if, if, you know, the CEO of a major Fortune 500 company could be a Christian? Yeah. That would be kind of cool. Sure of That'd be nice, of course. And yeah, they could probably do a lot of good things and they could probably shape the way that that business runs and they could probably, um, have more opportunities to share the gospel. [00:41:42] Tony Arsenal: They could probably shape their business into a vehicle that, that moves forward. Missions, all those things are great, but. If the trade off is that that person has to sacrifice their genuine Christian convictions, right? That's not worth it. And I think we, we look at this and we might be able to identify certain. [00:42:00] Tony Arsenal: Obvious ways that we would say, no, it's not worth it. Right? If a CEO, uh, the CEO of a major retailer has to give way to all of the, um, transgender LGBT sexual, you know, identity politics has to give way to that in order to survive as CEO, I think we would all look at that and go, yeah, it's probably a hard sacrifice, but that's a sacrifice we would expect a genuine Christian to make at that level. [00:42:25] Tony Arsenal: Where we might not look at it is saying, well, I don't know. The Bible says that if you don't properly care for your family, then you're worse than an unbeliever. That's right. And so that CEO that is at the office for 70 hours a week and is never home, um, and their kids don't, you know, their kids don't have an opportunity to know their father or their mother because their. [00:42:44] Tony Arsenal: Constantly jet setting around the world. I don't know that we would as readily identify that as a sacrifice. I would actually argue that, that the Bible is probably clearer about that being a problem than it is about identity politics or other sort of, of social issues that, that, uh, a business person might have to. [00:43:04] Tony Arsenal: Hold their nose a little bit and, and, you know, sign off on a commercial or something that they don't necessarily want to, I'm not advocating that they should do that, but I think the Bible is clearer about a person who is taken away from their home more than is reasonable and more than is healthy for their family. [00:43:20] Tony Arsenal: Or a Christian who never is able to worship on the Lord's day, um, or, or something like that. I think the Bible is clearer about that than it is on. Something like identity politics and some of the tangential ways that, that might, might cause a person to need to compromise a little bit at a high level. [00:43:35] Tony Arsenal: So I, I think this is a, it's an interesting question that we probably don't think about it from the right angle most of the time. [00:43:41] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's just too easy to consider this in light of if we can get more responsibility, that should always be a good thing. And I think that proclivity is, is fine and maybe even noble, but sometimes I think we do get it twisted where we get this sense that we are trying to make the world into something moral like the church. [00:43:57] Jesse Schwamb: And if we could do that in our jobs and get the most influence in that greatest sphere of impact. We should always take on those additional responsibilities. And I do think we have to sit back and ask and say, is that the calling? So that we're pursuing what is our vocation, not just our potential. [00:44:13] Jesse Schwamb: There's a lot of brilliant, God has made all kinds of brilliant people. Many of them are his children, and as a result of that, we might say like we should always again be trying to move up. And this is not to say that we shouldn't take great initiative, that we shouldn't want to try to do more and be more productive. [00:44:27] Jesse Schwamb: You and I have always been outspoken about that kind of thing, but I think there is a real temptation. To somehow say like, what we need to do is like to infiltrate in all the places. And I think what we mean by that is that things will, like, whether we wanna admit it or not, that things here will be better. [00:44:41] Jesse Schwamb: And I, I don't know all the time that what we're saying is what you just said, which was that what we're really concerned with is that the gospel get proclaimed more forthrightly. More loudly, more specifically, more cogently in all places. But that if we just had good examples of moral behavior and good character, yes, those things are profitable in and of their own ways, but there's also a lot of common grace we see God bring about good leaders who are not a Christian at high level to do that kind of thing. [00:45:05] Jesse Schwamb: And sometimes I do wonder, just depending on the job, quite honestly, whether it's really possible for Christian to be successful in that job. [00:45:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:45:14] Jesse Schwamb: As like the world or the industry or the company has defined it. I'm not sure that's the case, so I don't wanna put like too high a line on this. I think we're trying to just drop a bomb in some ways and say, I'm not gonna make it overly prescriptive and say like, as a Christian, you can't be a CEO. [00:45:29] Jesse Schwamb: Move on. That's not true at all. Of course, again, here are hopefully what we said about the particulars of that wrestling through it and again. Really sensing where there's an actual call on your life that God has given for that role in a particular time. But I do think we ought to question where there's always and everywhere appropriate for any Christian to take on, quite frankly, any job. [00:45:51] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And so I'm with you. Sometimes it's super easy when I first start out in banking, when I was looking for my second banking job. I had a great interview. It was a very nice company. The bank actually doesn't exist anymore, but, uh, one of the things, one of their big, like, kind of gimmicks was they were open seven days a week. [00:46:09] Jesse Schwamb: And so I said to them, well. I attend church on Sundays. That's my day of rest and my high conviction on that. And I said, is there any flexibility with that? And they said, Nope. You would still have to be on the schedule. And though they very graciously offered me the job, I was thankfully in a place where I, I turned that down. [00:46:26] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Actually I didn't have a job at the time, but I turned it down trusting. That God would provide. And this wasn't my great act of faith on my part. It was more of just, I think what you were saying, Tony, growing in our conviction that those things really do matter. Yes. And that it's sometimes just too easy to kind of push them aside and say, I, I know it's gonna be really stressful. [00:46:43] Jesse Schwamb: I know it might take much more of my time than I want to give. I know I might be at home a lot less. I know I might have less like attentional fortitude and space to think about my spouse or my children, but it's gonna be worth it because. I'll be able to like have this big influence. I do think sometimes madness lies that way. [00:47:02] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Certainly a great deal of foolishness. This is just hopefully a call for all of us as God's children to, to think through that. I don't wanna discourage anybody from taking on bigger and bolder things for the kingdom of God. I think we all have to think about what it is that we're. Promulgating or proclaiming when we talk about the Kingdom of God coming and whether or not we're just trying to make the world a better place, so to speak. [00:47:26] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. By bringing our like quote unquote Christian influence into a setting where really that influence is now particularly strong and what it's actually compromising is the vocation that we're meant to undertake. [00:47:37] Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions [00:47:37] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Are you ready to, for me to drop two bombs? Just, just straight up. You got, [00:47:41] Jesse Schwamb: you got two of them. [00:47:42] Jesse Schwamb: Let's do it. I, I've [00:47:43] Tony Arsenal: got 13 minutes or less left on this episode. There go. So I actually got into a pretty big, uh, like a pretty big dust up with someone way back in the day when I was in the reform hub over actually this topic. And I'm surprised I didn't think of it earlier in the evening. Um, we are using like CEOs as like kind of the proxy for this, but there's all sorts of jobs where, um, your, your job may be admirable and it may be. [00:48:06] Tony Arsenal: Right. Even something that's sort of quote unquote necessary for society. But I got into a big dust up with someone who was an overroad trucker, right? And they were constantly, um, posting in the pub at, at back in the day. They were constantly posting how discouraged they were and, and how difficult their faith was and how much of a challenge it was to just remain faithful as a Christian. [00:48:27] Tony Arsenal: And I. Originally, I kind of naively and, and I think innocently said like, well, you know, like, have you talked to your pastor about this? And the person said like, well, I don't have a regular church because I'm always on the road. And I said like, well, there's your problem. Like there's the first step is like, figure out your local church thing. [00:48:43] Tony Arsenal: He said, well, I can't do that

Who Is a Jew? Zionism, Ethnicity, and the Gospel | The Patriarchy Podcast In this episode of The Patriarchy Podcast, Pastor Joseph Spurgeon is joined by Joseph Wiseman—a publisher and faithful Christian—to tackle one of the most heated and misunderstood questions of our day: Who is a Jew? Modern evangelicalism often idolizes the state of Israel, while internet voices swing to the opposite ditch, denying Jewish identity altogether or blaming the Jews for every problem under the sun. But what does Scripture actually teach? How do we understand Jewish ethnicity, Zionism, dispensationalism, and the promises of God in Christ? Wiseman brings a rare perspective as a man raised in Jewish culture who now boldly confesses Christ. Together, we cut through the lies from both sides and ground the conversation in the Word of God and the Westminster Confession. What You’ll Hear in This Episode: Why both blind support for modern Israel and conspiratorial hatred of Jews miss the mark The biblical and historical meaning of “Jew”—ethnic, religious, and spiritual dimensions How God’s promises to Israel are fulfilled in Christ, not in political Zionism The future of ethnic Jews in God’s plan of salvation The dangers of dispensationalism and racial theories A clear, Reformed perspective rooted in Scripture Guest Bio Joseph Wiseman is an ethnic Jew and faithful Christian. He runs Beareth Press and writes on theology, church life, and Christian cultural engagement. Raised in a Jewish family, he came to Christ and now speaks candidly about Jewish identity, history, and the gospel. Episode Chapters 00:00 – Cold Open: Zionist hype & conspiratorial nonsense mocked01:14 – Setting the stage: Who is a Jew? Why the confusion?03:26 – Introduction & Psalm-singing: Fear God, not man04:27 – Romans 11 read & explained05:00 – The modern idolization of Israel vs conspiratorial hatred06:53 – Guest introduction: Joseph Wiseman’s story08:35 – Does Jewish ethnicity = bias? Wiseman responds10:48 – Wiseman’s background: Jewish roots, conversion, and coming to Christ15:14 – From Messianic movement to true repentance19:29 – Defining “Jew”: religious, ethnic, national dimensions23:44 – Judaism vs Christianity: Who are God’s people?28:19 – God’s promises and future salvation of Jews32:53 – What is dispensationalism—and why reject it?37:20 – One people of God, one way of salvation39:34 – Should Christians support modern Israel politically?41:53 – Jesus’ parables, the rejection of ethnic privilege, and grafting in Gentiles44:01 – Are there ethnic Jews today? Historical and biblical evidence50:00 – Final thoughts, exhortations, and call to action Takeaway There is one people of God, saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. Ethnic heritage cannot save, nor does loyalty to a modern nation. God’s promises find their Yes and Amen in Jesus Christ. Find Us on Social Media:

As Pillar & Ground returns for the fall semester, Brian and Wil dive back into the Westminster Confession of Faith. This time in Chapter 20, "Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience." Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

Today's Podcast is for the spiritually mature, because we'll be discussing a few subjects that many of us including me agree with in principle, but fall way short in practical application. Our two main topics today center around the now-approved plan by Israel for a military takeover of all of Gaza, and the wave of Christian Nationalism brought to use by the New Apostolic Reformation adherents that dominate the Trump administration. If you believe the Bible, both these things will end in bitter failure, there's a reason for that, and we're going to talk about it.“And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.” Genesis 49:1 (KJB)On this episode of the Prophecy News Podcast, we are here on Day 1,971 of 15 Days To Flatten The Curve, and the end times activity continues to pin the needle on the prophecy meter. In the Middle East, Israel is walking into a very unpopular takeover of all of Gaza condemned by Germany, Saudi Arabia and England among others. Even many Israelis in Israel are not happy with this new direction. Over in America, a different problem is taking shape, the ‘apostles' of the New Apostolic Reformation that make up the majority of the “Christians” in the Trump administration want to create a theocracy. Launched back in May with a blog post entitled ‘Mission To Babylon', a church has been planted in Washington, DC, that says they are ‘a Conservative, Reformed, & Evangelical church in D.C. We affirm the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Definition of Chalcedon, and the Westminster Confession of Faith.' Calvinism, NAR and Evangelical all rolled into one, big, fat mess. Oh, boy, is that ever a recipe for Laodicean disaster. But into the breech we go on this edition of the Prophecy News Podcast!

Chapters 32 and 33 of the Westminster Confession of Faith address important questions that every Christian asks: What happens to me when I die? What about those still here when Christ returns? Will there be a final judgment, and if so, should I be concerned about it?

All the Episodes of the Heidelcast Subscribe to the Heidelcast! Browse the Heidelshop! On X @Heidelcast On Insta & Facebook @Heidelcast Subscribe in Apple Podcast Subscribe directly via RSS Call The Heidelphone via Voice Memo On Your Phone The Heidelcast is available wherever podcasts are found including Spotify. Call or text the Heidelphone anytime at (760) 618-1563. Leave a message or email us a voice memo from your phone and we may use it in a future podcast. Record it and email it to heidelcast@heidelblog.net. If you benefit from the Heidelcast please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts so that others can find it. Please do not forget to make the coffer clink (see the donate button below). SHOW NOTES How To Subscribe To Heidelmedia The Heidelblog Resource Page Heidelmedia Resources The Ecumenical Creeds The Reformed Confessions The Heidelberg Catechism Recovering the Reformed Confession (Phillipsburg: P&R Publishing, 2008) Why I Am A Christian What Must A Christian Believe? Heidelblog Contributors Support Heidelmedia: use the donate button or send a check to: Heidelberg Reformation Association 1637 E. Valley Parkway #391 Escondido CA 92027 USA The HRA is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization

All the Episodes of the Heidelcast Subscribe to the Heidelcast! Browse the Heidelshop! On X @Heidelcast On Insta & Facebook @Heidelcast Subscribe in Apple Podcast Subscribe directly via RSS Call The Heidelphone via Voice Memo On Your Phone The Heidelcast is available wherever podcasts are found including Spotify. Call or text the Heidelphone anytime at (760) 618-1563. Leave a message or email us a voice memo from your phone and we may use it in a future podcast. Record it and email it to heidelcast@heidelblog.net. If you benefit from the Heidelcast please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts so that others can find it. Please do not forget to make the coffer clink (see the donate button below). SHOW NOTES How To Subscribe To Heidelmedia The Heidelblog Resource Page Heidelmedia Resources The Ecumenical Creeds The Reformed Confessions The Heidelberg Catechism Recovering the Reformed Confession (Phillipsburg: P&R Publishing, 2008) Why I Am A Christian What Must A Christian Believe? Heidelblog Contributors Support Heidelmedia: use the donate button or send a check to: Heidelberg Reformation Association 1637 E. Valley Parkway #391 Escondido CA 92027 USA The HRA is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization

The Westminster Confession of Faith does not begin with the doctrine of salvation, nor the doctrine of God, nor the doctrine of man – it rightly and appropriately begins with the doctrine of Scripture, declaring that the Word of God, as contained in the Old and New Testaments, is our only infallible rule of faith and practice. God's Word defines and orders what we are to believe and how we are to live. In this message, Dr. Reeder takes us to 2 Timothy 3:16-17 for today's teaching, The Word of God: Its Importance Part 1.

About the Guest(s):Michael Beatty is a pastor at Community Baptist Church located in Fargo, North Dakota. With a rich history of involvement in Reformed Baptist circles, Michael has been associated with churches formerly part of ARPA, now CBA. After departing ARBA, Michael has been focused on ecclesiastical independence. He pursued theological studies at Westminster Seminary in California and is leading a new initiative, the 3535 Foundation, aimed at enhancing church growth and understanding through a variety of initiatives including scholarships, missions, republication of classic texts, and conferences.Episode Summary:In this engaging episode of RenewalCast, hosts Colt Robinson and Jay Wiff welcome Michael Beatty, a dedicated pastor and theologian, who introduces listeners to the 3535 Foundation based in North Dakota. This episode delves deeply into ecclesiology and its significance for church foundation and growth, providing both historical and contemporary insights. Michael shares his journey through the Reformed Baptists movement, his educational pursuits, and the motivations behind establishing the 3535 Foundation.Throughout the discussion, Michael enumerates the multiple initiatives of the 3535 Foundation, focusing on four primary areas: the provision of scholarships for men interested in church ministry, supporting mission work and church planting, republishing primary ecclesiastical resources, and organizing annual conferences. This episode sheds light on the potential impact of such endeavors on enhancing church activities and promoting theological education, particularly amidst challenges like those observed during the COVID-19 pandemic. It highlights the importance of ecclesiology with respect to church governance and individual believers' roles within the broader framework of faith.Key Takeaways:The 3535 Foundation is dedicated to bolstering ecclesiastical work through educating and resourcing churches.The foundation separates church duties from other organizational acts to maintain focus on core spiritual responsibilities.Michael stresses the importance of ecclesiology as a means to deliver Christ's blessings through church functions and governance.The COVID-19 pandemic challenged churches to rethink the intertwining of government regulations and church autonomy.The episode underlines how historical creeds like the 1689 Confession of Faith guide churches in aligning with theological soundness.Notable Quotes:"All the benefits that we really see that Jesus gives to Christians all flow through the church.""The foundation is there to empower local churches to make decisions that are good for them.""We were doing a number of these missions works…ultimately, the church is called elders to teach and preach.""One of the things that sets us apart…is trying to have more reader helps in the volumes.""There's a lot of important institutions…but ultimately none of those make it into the new heaven and the new earth."Resources:3535 Foundation: [Learn more about their initiatives and how to get involved](website URL not provided in the transcript).Westminster Seminary California: Michael Beatty's educational institution.Community Baptist Church: The church where Michael Beatty serves as pastor.Historical Confessions: References to Savoy Declaration, Westminster Confession of Faith, and the 1689 Baptist Confession.Theology for Breakfast with Pat Abendroth: Reference to a theological discussion group attended by Michael.Tune in to this episode to explore how the 3535 Foundation seeks to fortify church practice and faith through strategic initiatives. Stay informed and inspired by subscribing to RenewalCast for more insightful theological discussions.

Paragraphs 4 & 5 of Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 11, "Of Justification"

This is Part 1 of a 5 Part series on the evaluation of Reformed Theology, also referred to as Calvinism. We hope you will join us for this complete series.Step into one of Christianity's most profound and divisive theological debates as we unpack Reformed theology and Calvinism with clarity and nuance. What exactly is "that election/free will thing" that's caused denominations to split, churches to divide, and Christians to engage in heated debates for centuries?At the heart of this theological exploration lies a crucial question: What does it mean to be "dead in trespasses and sins"? We carefully examine how Reformed theologians like William GT Shedd and Charles Hodge understand this concept, contrasting their view that spiritual death renders humans completely unable to respond to God with the perspective that Scripture describes lost people in multiple ways beyond just being "dead."Through direct quotes from Reformed confessions and theologians, we provide an authentic presentation of what Reformed theology actually teaches about God's sovereignty, human free will, election, and regeneration. You'll discover how Westminster Confession carefully balances God's decree that "whatsoever comes to pass" happens according to His will while maintaining He is not the author of sin nor does He violate human free choice.Despite theological differences, we highlight important common ground: God's sovereignty, His right to choose people for specific purposes, human inability to regenerate ourselves, and the eternal security of believers once saved. The real tension emerges around when regeneration occurs—does God regenerate people before they have faith, or does faith precede regeneration?Whether you're Reformed, Arminian, or somewhere in between, this thoughtful exploration will deepen your understanding of how Christians have wrestled with reconciling God's sovereignty and human responsibility. Join us for this first installment as we lay the groundwork for a more detailed examination in future episodes.Support the showThank you for listening!! Please give us a five-star rating to help your podcast provider's algorithm spread RTTB among their listeners. You can find free study and leader resources at the following link - Resource Page - Reasoning Through the Bible Please prayerfully consider supporting RTTB to help us to continue providing content and free resources. You can do that at this link - Support RTTB - Reasoning Through the Bible May God Bless you!! - Glenn and Steve

Chapters 27-29 of the Westminster Confession of Faith discuss the nature, purpose, and proper use of the sacraments in Christian faith. They are God-ordained means of grace meant to build up believers and point them to Christ. There are two sacraments in the Protestant Church -- Baptism and the Lord's Supper.

Chapters 25 and 26 of the Westminster Confession of Faith define the Church and her mission, as well as explaining how our membership in the Church impacts our daily lives. Join us as we study these chapters together.

Praying for Change: A Path to National Reconciliation   Feeling stuck on how to pray for America? You're not alone—but there is a path forward. In this timely episode, Good Faith “founding friend” and New York Times columnist David French lays out five virtue-based ways to pray for our nation with clarity, courage, and compassion. Drawing upon Scripture with a healthy dose of personal reflection, David extols the importance of praying for America as a daily act to seek God's best for our country and each other—restoring unity and healing what's broken.   Episode Companion: Prayer Guide   Donate to Redeeming Babel   Scriptures mentioned in this episode: 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 (ESV) The Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:5-13 (ESV) "The Ministry of Reconciliation" in 2 Corinthians 5:11-21 (ESV) Jesus Prays in the Garden of Gethsemane in Matthew 26:36-46 (ESV) Micah 6:8 Ephesians 4:3 Isaiah 42:3 Psalm 34:18   Resources mentioned in this episode: The Ongoing Los Angeles Protests Australian journalist shot by rubber bullet during L.A. protests (video) Waymo taxis Ablaze in Los Angeles Georgetown scholar recalls ‘mockery of due process' in immigration jail The Westminster Confession's Standards for the 9th Commandment South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission Les Miserables: The Bishop and the Redemption of Jean Valjean What Is Restorative Justice? More about the work of Brennan Manning Tim Keller's Prayer: Experiencing Awe and Intimacy with God Dennis F. Kinlaw's Prayer: Bearing the World as Jesus Does E.M. Bounds on Prayer Dietrich Bonhoeffer on Praying the Psalms The work of Michael Card More about the work of Rich Mullins The Lost Dogs' Pray Where You Are (song & lyrics)   More From David French: David French's New York Times pieces HERE Follow David French on Threads   Follow Us: Good Faith on Instagram Good Faith on X (formerly Twitter) Good Faith on Facebook   Sign up: Redeeming Babel Newsletter

Forged in Fire: How Civil War and Grit Gave Us the Westminster Confession In this episode, Pastor Joseph Spurgeon is joined by Zach Jackson to pull back the curtain on the fire-forged legacy of the Westminster Assembly. Don’t think of history as just some boring academic exercise. This is the story of men who fought political corruption, endured civil war, and wrote the blueprint for Reformed theology—all for the glory of Christ. You’ll discover how the church stood its ground when kings bowed to tyranny, how theology shaped politics, and why this battle still matters for men today. It’s time to stop being soft on doctrine and start wielding truth like a sword. Topics Covered: ✅ Why the Westminster Assembly was a battlefield, not a boardroom✅ The role of Charles I, Bloody Mary, and the divine right of kings in theological warfare✅ The Puritan grit that helped reform the Church under fire✅ How civil war, reformation, and biblical conviction collided✅ Why every man—whether Presbyterian or not—needs to care about the Westminster Confession✅ Sphere sovereignty, the church vs. the state, and Christian nationalism✅ Lessons in masculine leadership from the Westminster Divines This is history with teeth. Truth with backbone. Doctrine forged by fire. Don’t just listen—learn how to build, fight, protect, and lead. Chapters: 00:00 - The Call to Westminster: A Historical Prelude03:04 - The Westminster Assembly: Crafting a Confession06:03 - The Role of the Church in Society08:45 - The Impact of Historical Figures on Reformation12:10 - Political Turmoil and Theological Debates14:46 - The Evolution of Church Authority17:59 - The Legacy of the Westminster Confession32:38 - The Puritan Struggle and Reformation Theology35:04 - Charles I and the Dissolution of Parliament37:45 - The Civil War and the Rise of Parliament39:39 - The Westminster Assembly and the Confession of Faith46:02 - The Grit and Focus of the Westminster Divines51:42 - Theological Truths Amidst Cultural Chaos01:01:27 - The Relevance of the Westminster Confession Today Connect with The Patriarchy Podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ThePatriarchyPodcastSpotify: https://tinyurl.com/58tm5zjzApple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/f3ruzrsaWebsite & All Links: https://linktr.ee/thepatriarchypodcast Follow Us on Social Media:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePatriarchyPodcastTwitter/X: https://x.com/PatriarchyPodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thepatriarchypodcastGab: https://gab.com/thepatriarchypodcast Sponsored By: Patriarch Cigars – For men who reject passivity and take dominionOrder now: https://patriarchcigars.com/ Fit Father Project – Reclaim discipline and strength for lifeStart here: https://secure.fitfatherproject.com/a/transformation/4539 Books by Joseph Spurgeon:It’s Good to Be a Boy – https://a.co/d/7zpEh5DIt’s Good to Be a Girl – https://a.co/d/6VlBTzS

As we begin our summer break, Brian and Wil take a look back at the last two chapters of the Confession and identify the things that stood out to them the most when studying and preparing to teach these chapters.Hosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

Preacher: Jeremiah Fyffe Luke 8:4–8 SOWER: The Preacher is Always Sowing the Word SEED: The Word is the Same SOIL: Take Care How You Hear 2 Timothy 4:3 (ESV) For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 1 Peter 1:23 (ESV) since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; Westminster Confession, Q160 Q: What is required of those that hear the word preached? A: It is required of those that hear the word preached, that they attend upon it with diligence, preparation, and prayer; examine what they hear by the scriptures; receive the truth with faith, love, meekness, and readiness of mind, as the word of God; meditate, and confer of it; hide it in their hearts, and bring forth the fruit of it in their lives. 1 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV) And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers. Proverbs 8:33–34 (ESV) Hear instruction and be wise, and do not neglect it. Blessed is the one who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting beside my doors. Charles Spurgeon We are told men ought not to preach without preparation. Granted. But we add, men ought not to hear without preparation. Which do you think, needs the most preparation, the sower or the ground? I would have the sower come with clean hands, but I would have the ground well-plowed and harrowed, well turned over, and the clods broken before the seed comes in. It seems to me that there is more preparation needed by the ground than by the sower, more by the hearer than the preacher. Psalm 119:18 (ESV) Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law. James 1:22–25 (ESV) … he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. Hebrews 4:2 (ESV) For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. Psalm 119:11 (ESV) I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you. James 1:22 (ESV) But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

The letter of Romans strengthened the ancient church, brought reformation to the dark ages, has brought hope for 2000 years, and can change your life!This week Pastor Joel continues Part 2 of his message series in the book of the Bible called Romans, “Bold Faith That Wins”. This week, Joel continues to look at one of the most controversial texts in the Bible, Romans chapter 9. In verses 14-29 we see a two-fold reminder: 1) Our perception does not determine reality, particularly when it comes to justice. 2) And that the universe does not revolve around me. Remember who you are, who God is, who God makes us to be, and what could have been. This is a special four part series that will span the year of 2025.LINKS + RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE:• Recommended reading for this series• The Abstract of Principles, 1859; Westminster Confession, 1646; Baptist Faith and Message, 1963, 2000; Hymn “Pass Me Not, O Gentle Savior”; C.S. Lewis; Christopher Watkin; Tim Keller; A.A. Hodge• Download the free study guide by visiting and clicking on the button "Download Study Guide"⁠• Find a complete transcript here• Scripture References: Romans 9, verses 14-29; Romans chapters 1-3; Exodus 7, verses 3-4• Find out more about Covenant Church at ⁠covenantexperience.com

WCF 9: Of Free Will

WCF 9: Of Free Will | Q&A Session

WCF 10: Of Effectual Calling

In this episode, host Jared Luttjeboer finishes the conversation on the papacy with Dr. Alan Strange and Dr. Andrew Compton as they unpack the significance of the newly elected Pope, who, for the first time, hails from just down the road from Mid-America Reformed Seminary. Their conversation explores how this moment intersects with centuries of Reformed thought (from the fiery language of the Westminster Confession to the more nuanced tone of today), and looks at the symbolism behind the Pope's chosen name, Leo XIV, and what it signals about his vision for the Church. The episode also explores the evolving dynamics between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, the role of social media in shaping perceptions of religious leaders, and the enduring theological divides that remain.

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org.  

In this Season 3 finale, a listener asks why the Westminster Confession of Faith says God is without passion. As James & Mia explain, that doesn't mean God has no emotion. Instead, it points to the deeply comforting truth that all God does expresses who He is, which means we can be assured He's perfectly reliable.Send in your questions over the summer while James & Mia take a break: livedeeply@cspc.net. And we look forward to returning in just a few months for Season 4!

What is the meaning of the preliminary principle of the PCA's constitution? What is its relationship to the Westminster Confession of Faith? This and more with Zachary Garris in his conversation with Timon Cline and Ben Dunson.   Show Notes: https://americanreformer.org/2025/04/principle-and-confession/   Zachary Garris serves as pastor of Bryce Avenue Presbyterian Church (PCA) in White Rock, New Mexico. He is the author of Masculine Christianity, Honor Thy-Fathers: Recovering the Anti-Feminist Theology of the Reformers (New Christendom Press), and a forthcoming book on the Southern Presbyterians (coauthored with Sean McGowan). He writes at KnowingScripture.com.   Learn more about Zachary Garris at: https://www.brycepresbyterian.org/ https://knowingscripture.com/   ––––––   Follow American Reformer across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/amreformer Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AmericanReformer/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanReformer Rumble – https://rumble.com/user/AmReformer Website – https://americanreformer.org/   Promote a vigorous Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day, by donating to The American Reformer: https://americanreformer.org/donate/   Follow Us on Twitter: Josh Abbotoy – https://twitter.com/Byzness Timon Cline – https://twitter.com/tlloydcline   The American Reformer Podcast is  hosted by Josh Abbotoy and Timon Cline, recorded remotely in the United States, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to our Podcast, "The American Reformer" Get our RSS Feed – https://americanreformerpodcast.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-american-reformer-podcast/id1677193347 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1V2dH5vhfogPIv0X8ux9Gm?si=a19db9dc271c4ce5

In this episode, host Jared Luttjeboer finishes the conversation on the papacy with Dr. Alan Strange and Dr. Andrew Compton as they unpack the significance of the newly elected Pope, who, for the first time, hails from just down the road from Mid-America Reformed Seminary. Their conversation explores how this moment intersects with centuries of Reformed thought (from the fiery language of the Westminster Confession to the more nuanced tone of today), and looks at the symbolism behind the Pope's chosen name, Leo XIV, and what it signals about his vision for the Church. The episode also explores the evolving dynamics between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, the role of social media in shaping perceptions of religious leaders, and the enduring theological divides that remain.

Westminster Confession of FaithConfessing the Faith - A Reader's Guide to the Westminster Confession of Faith by Chad Van DixhoornHosts: Brian Salter & Wil NettletonProducer: Ben WingardMusic arranged by David Henry and performed by David Henry and Hannah Lutz.To contact Pillar & Ground or to submit a question that you would like to hear addressed on a future episode, please email podcast@lmpc.org. 

Can Christians truly be sure of their salvation—and if so, on what basis? In this episode of Marscast, host Jared Luttjeboer welcomes back Dr. Cornelis Venema to explore the doctrine of assurance through the lens of the Reformed confessions and pastoral wisdom from the church's history. Far from being a modern dilemma, the struggle for assurance has deep roots in the life of the church, and our theological forefathers left us language and categories deeply embedded in a Christ-centered hope.From the debates of the Reformation to the pastoral tone of the Canons of Dort and the Westminster Confession, this conversation sheds light on how assurance was understood as something deeply connected to faith in Christ, the witness of the Spirit, and the fruit of new life. Whether you're new to this topic or have wrestled with it for years, this episode invites you to rest more deeply in God's promises, to understand the role of self-examination without falling into despair, and to see how the Reformed tradition has long spoken to this very human question: Can I really be sure?

Pastor Chris Drew is our guide as we walk through Westminster Confession of Faith chapter 19, Of the Law of God. Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxOWdAHeXLE CHAPTER 19 Of the Law of God 1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it. 2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man. 3. Beside this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the new testament. 4. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require. 5. The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither doth Christ, in the gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation. 6. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one, and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law; and, not under grace. 7. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.