Podcasts about sway group

Danielle Wiley is the founder and CEO of Sway Group, an agency that supports a large community of influencers and connects them to the right brands for high-impact marketing campaigns.Prior to founding Sway, Danielle ran social strategy for Edelman's Chicago-based digital group. Between working on the social campaigns for household-name brands and channeling her passion for cooking into a food blog, she realized there was a need to professionalize and streamline the process for connecting influencers with brands. She launched Sway in 2011.With nearly 30 years of industry experience, Danielle is widely recognized as an industry leader in content marketing, influencer marketing, and social media strategy. She has the practical knowledge to understand what is doable and the creative energy to consistently push the envelope with her initiatives.Danielle is a graduate of Vassar College and currently lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan with her family.

Can healthcare organizations leverage influencer marketing to authentically connect with high-value patients and referring doctors, while staying compliant and brand safe? Find out in our latest podcast featuring Danielle Wiley, CEO of Sway Group, a leading influencer marketing agency.

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, host Kerry Curran sits down with Danielle Wiley, CEO and founder of Sway Group, to explore the evolution of influencer marketing from its PR roots to a powerful revenue driver. Learn how influencer strategies can move beyond awareness and reach, driving real results for your business. Danielle shares her insights on building effective creator campaigns, measuring success, and how even smaller brands can leverage local influencers to achieve national success. If you're an executive looking to grow revenue, this episode is packed with actionable advice you can't afford to miss!

Danielle is widely recognized as an industry leader in content marketing, influencer marketing and social media strategy. Prior to founding Sway, Danielle ran social strategy for Edelman's Chicago-based digital group. Recognizing a need to professionalize and streamline the process for connecting influencers with brands, she founded Sway Group in June of 2011. Danielle has been featured in AdWeek, AdAge, TechCrunch, Digiday, VentureBeat, MediaPost, Marketing Land and PR Daily. She has also spoken at numerous industry conferences including BlogHer, iMedia, SXSW, CES and the SMX Search Marketing Expo.

Please don't forget to leave a reviewAnd share this episode with a friend that it will help.----Join us as we walk with Tiffany Romero, founder of Sway Group and Owner Tacoma Summer Camp, along her path of entrepreneurial discovery. From her early career in retail to the pivotal summer where the spark of entrepreneurship was ignited, Tiffany offers invaluable pearls of wisdom around being a business owner. One of her key insights is recognizing the art of seizing the right opportunities - a lesson she learned on her journey from working multiple jobs to starting her own blog. What if you could build a business that aligns perfectly with your core values? This episode uncovers the necessity of defining our ambitions, and the power of saying no to distractions that don't contribute to our goals. Tiffany candidly shares about the delicate dance of aligning passion, purpose, and profitability, offering a refreshing perspective for anyone navigating the turbulent waters of entrepreneurship. Our conversation doesn't shy away from the tough aspects of decision-making and the role of core values in business. Hear our honest discussions around dealing with challenging clients and turning down opportunities that clash with our principles. Tiffany also imparts her insights on delegation, decision-making, and how to successfully run an influencer marketing business. So, come along for this enlightening chat that might just hold the wisdom you need to push your business dreams forward.Tiffany Romero:https://www.instagram.com/tiffanyrom?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==Thanks for listening & being part of the Mindset Cafe & Str11ve Tribe.Message us on Instagram and let us know what topics or questions you want covered so we can help you achieve your goals faster.Instagram @str11vefitness , @devan.gonzalez For more information about Franchising Opportunities with Strive 11 Fitness click the link below!str11veportal.com/franchiseinquiryFor more information about our workout program Strive 11 Fitness (STR11VE) visit www.strive11fitness.com

Influencer marketing is nothing new... though the medium where we find influencers today is rather different from the past. It could be argued that the "original" influencers were the ones with the power of the press. Publishers, columnists, and traditional journalists were able to leverage their relationships with public figures and companies in order to gain exposure for their stories or campaigns. As media technology progressed, so did the concept of influencer marketing as social media platforms enabled people from all walks of life to become influential voices online. Fast-forward to today and influencers are now a massive industry, with celebrities, bloggers, YouTubers and everyday people making money through sharing their views and opinions on products or services. In many ways, the definition of “influence” has changed since those early days; it is no longer limited only to traditional journalism or those with strong relationships but rather open to anyone who builds an engaged following online. In this episode, we chat with Danielle Wiley, who as the founder and CEO of the agency Sway Group, supports a large community of influencers and connects them to the right brands for high-impact marketing campaigns. www.swaygroup.com

In a new episode of NIL Now, Kevin and Lauren discuss Deion Sanders' new job in Colorado and how his presence will impact NIL discussions and opportunities for the Buffaloes. The cohosts then analyze the main challenges new NCAA president Charlie Baker will face when he claims his new role in March. Reddit CFB's Bobak Ha'Eri joins the show to commend a Georgia offensive lineman who bought holiday gifts with his NIL earnings and consider how NIL subscription boxes could bring fans closer to their favorite college football teams. Danielle Wiley, the CEO and founder of Sway Group, dissects how athletes can better market themselves no matter the size of their social media following. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi and welcome to the OWN IT podcast, where we celebrate the growing number of (women and non-binary) ad agency owners and talk about buying out of the boys' club of advertising, one agency at a time.  Today, we're talking to Danielle Wiley of Sway Group. Daneille launched her agency in the middle of the social media and blogging boom of the mid-2000s because she wanted to help fellow bloggers earn more and find better representation in the marketing world. Almost 20 years later, she has one of the most successful and widely recognized influencer marketing firms in the business. Danielle and I got into lots of interesting topics as we talked about the courage to become an owner, facing the fear and uncertainty of ownership, and the power of mentorship and support for those of us who do own, and those who aspire to.  Yet another amazing female owner to inspire you. Thanks for listening to this episode of OWN IT. Learn more about Sway at swaygroup.com. Make sure to connect with Danielle on LinkedIn as well.   If you're enjoying Own It, please subscribe, then rate and share it on your podcast service of choice. Also, if you're a female or non-binary agency owner, or you want to own an agency someday, join our growing community at untilyouownit.com.

In 2020,  Danielle Wiley was included in the revered “Top 50” list by Talking Influence. And the agency she founded, Sway Group was selected by Chief Marketer as one of just three influencer agencies of the “2020 Chief Marketer 200”. So it's a safe bet that she has something to say about #influencermarketing. And that's what she did, in Epi 32 of Insider Interviews. I'd had the chance to experience Wiley's thoughts last year when she contributed to The Continuum, a publication about brand + demand marketing, which I'm privileged to edit. In that article she explained how to look at the KPIs of influencer marketing a little bit differently, and the varied ways to determine impact and engagement. We touched on that in this conversation, but a 30-minute conversation gives you a chance to understand much more -- not just about this food writer turned marketer, but things like how cause-marketing is another essential ingredient in influencing consumers. And these days, Sway has evolved to embrace that (and she shared case study examples) as well as digital advertising, both programmatic and paid social, and built what was a natural extension: a content studio. One of my favorite discoveries about Wiley (aside from learning about our common roots working at Food Network in the early days!) was that she was a baker and a cheesemonger at one point. I believe that takes the cake for eclectic pasts among my podcast guests. Her culinary chops have served her well, though, as she can name several brands in or around the category as clients, including Igloo, Coleman, and Domino's. If that didn't get you hungry to hear more, here's what else we discussed: Wiley's evolution from a baker and blogger to early stage expert in social media to our common ground in marketing chefs like Emeril as "c-hunks"! Her observation of the power of engagement with popular bloggers -- and the infusion of trust vs. the singular appeal of celebrity In its infancy influencers were treated more like journalists. Brands were just sending them product and expecting that they would get reviews out of it. That worked ...for a short period of time. ...Then they realized 'if we're just sending them a box of Mac & Cheese, we can't have control over messaging...'. And we started paying them. How the transition from providing product to bloggers to hiring them necessitated greater trust and authenticity in the influencer, and the path to creative content was laid How Sway itself evolved away from the "Hollywood agent" business model to be able to scale and replicate requests -- whether for moms of bedwetters or people who picnic with pizza How brands solve for the demand for content tonnage across multiple channels -- which sparked the birth of a content studio Why the most important step in the strategic brief is a deep dive into the brand's KPIs -- impressions? engagement? The big thing to remember is that as you increase in following the engagement rate goes down dramatically. What's a micro or a nano influencer and why does it matter -- and the various forms of sponsorship. (Hint: Feel free to sponsor THIS podcast just by buying me a coffee!) The shift from wanting to steer clear of influencers with a point of view, to actively seeking that out -- and how the GenZ demand for brand purpose has influenced how brands use influencers! Wiley explained the two initiatives Sway worked on for Stonyfield Farms, for example - tapping eco-conscious influencers and creating a cause-related corporate initiative We took a deeper dive into pro-social initiatives and examples, and the confluence of content channels. (Of course I mentioned the conference I'm producing about the intersection of television and podcasting for example!) And that led to a chat about why Wiley's family gets a little annoyed about her heavy podcast consumption habit! Find Danielle Wiley at: Twitter: https://twitter.com/danielle_sway

Danielle Wiley sits with us from the unique perspective of having spoken at the first Dad 2.0 Summit, just a few months after she launched Sway Group, and at our most recent in-person Summit back in February. Her experience as both a blogger and an executive at Edelman Chicago informs her advice for influencer dads to share their stories about coping with COVID, be social on social media, and up their Instagram game. Join us to discuss how she built a two-page resume in two years, became an executive in two days, and  why dads are more viable as influencers than ever.

Today we’re speaking with Danielle Wiley, Founder & CEO of Sway Group. You can find her on social and email her at:https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellewiley/https://twitter.com/danielle_swaydanielle@swaygroup.comFind WIIM online:www.iamwiim.comJoin our newsletter:www.iamwiim.com/joinJoin our Industry Only Private Facebook Group:www.facebook.com/groups/wiimindustryJoin our Creator Only Private Facebook Group:www.facebook.com/groups/wiimcreators/Follow us on Instagram:www.instagram.com/iamwiim

The influencer marketing landscape has matured over the years. With this maturity has come a new way of doing business. In this episode, Adam Torres and Danielle Wiley, Founder & CEO of Sway Group, explore how influencer marketing has evolved, becoming a reliable source of reaching new audiences for many brands. Follow Adam on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/askadamtorres/ for up to date information on book releases and tour schedule.Apply to be interviewed by Adam on our podcast:https://missionmatters.lpages.co/podcastguest/

Danielle Wiley Website: https://swaygroup.com/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/swaygroupllc Twitter: https://twitter.com/danielle_sway LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellewiley/ Danielle is the founder and CEO of Sway Group, an agency that supports a large community of influencers and connects them to the right brands for high-impact marketing campaigns. Prior to founding Sway, Danielle ran social strategy for Edelman’s Chicago-based digital group. Between working on the social campaigns for household-name brands and channeling her passion for cooking into a food blog, she realized there was a need to professionalize and streamline the process for connecting influencers with brands. She launched Sway in 2011. With nearly 25 years of industry experience, Danielle is widely recognized as an industry leader in content marketing, influencer marketing and social media strategy. She has the practical knowledge to understand what is doable and the creative energy to consistently push the envelope with her initiatives. Thanks to her expertise, Danielle is a regular contributor to Forbes.com and has been featured in Adweek, TechCrunch, Digiday, VentureBeat, MediaPost, Marketing Land and PR Daily. She has spoken at numerous industry conferences including BlogHer, Mom 2.0, iMedia, SXSW, CES and the SMX Search Marketing Expo. Danielle is a graduate of Vassar College and currently lives in Marin County, California with her husband and two children. In this episode, we discuss: The evolution of Influencer marketing What it takes to leave a corporate job to be an entrepreneur A vision being strong enough to live on it’s own Building a self-funded business Challenges of partnerships How to stay current in the evolution of business

Influencers have seen their work completely upended by the pandemic, prompting a shift away from aspirational posts back to more authentic takes on life — and Danielle Wiley, founder and CEO of Sway Group, a marketing agency and influencer network of more than 25,000 creators, welcomes the change. In this bonus episode, Jennifer and Danielle consider the authenticity shift, the ongoing pay gap for female influencers, and how brand campaigns may change going forward. What social media messaging are you experiencing during the COVID era? Tell us your story at TheBreadwinnerspodcast.com. Help us tell the stories that mean the most to you. Please help us grow: Rate, review and subscribe to The Breadwinners on Apple podcasts! Episode Links Women Make up Majority Of Influencer Community, Still Earn Less Than Male Influencers https://marketingland.com/women-make-up-majority-of-influencer-community-earn-less-than-male-influencers-262193 Social Media Fact Sheet https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/social-media/ Top 10 Things Everyone Should Know About Women Consumers https://www.bloomberg.com/company/stories/top-10-things-everyone-know-women-consumers/ 15 Strategies to Engage Followers And Stay at the Top of User Feeds https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2020/03/30/15-strategies-to-engage-followers-and-stay-at-the-top-of-user-feeds/#1bc3b02c725a Want more Jennifer? Visit Jennwork: www.jennwork.com Want more Rachael? Visit Reworking Parents: www.reworkingparents.com Want more Danielle? Visit Sway Group: https://swaygroup.com/ Our music is “Run for your Money,” by Devil and Perfects. Listen to them on Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danielle Wiley is one of the pioneering agency leaders in the influencer marketing space. The San Francisco-based thought leader founded The Sway Group, one of the leading influencer strategy firms in the world, more than a decade ago. She visited with Jason Falls recently to talk about the state of the industry, how younger generations respond to sponsored content and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On episode 63...A lawsuit against Led Zeppelin opens up the door to less lawsuits for creative ideas building off of existing material. Coronavirus has cancelled everything. What's next for live events? And will influencers, influence the next election. We speak with Danielle Wiley of The Sway Group to find out.Plus music from Fabe DJ vs Sacchi and Ms. Janette.#dfm #DisruptiveFM

On episode 63...A lawsuit against Led Zeppelin opens up the door to less lawsuits for creative ideas building off of existing material. Coronavirus has cancelled everything. What's next for live events? And will influencers, influence the next election. We speak with Danielle Wiley of The Sway Group to find out.Plus music from Fabe DJ vs Sacchi and Ms. Janette.#dfm #DisruptiveFM

How much do you understand about influencer marketing? Influencer marketing is all the rave in 2020, even though this interview is a blast from the past, it is still, if not more relevant today. Danielle Wiley is the founder and CEO of Sway Group and has nearly 25 years of industry experience. Danielle shares all of her valuable knowledge of successful and effective influencer marketing. In this episode, hear about how influencer marketing benefits a brand and how to make it effective. How much trust goes into an influencer and company relationship? What does it mean to become an influencer? Lisa and Danielle dive deep into what influencer marketing meant in 2015, with information that is still applicable today. “Be true to your niche and explore it as much as you can” - Danielle Wiley Some topics discussed in this episode include: What does influencer marketing mean to a brand? Trust between an influencer and a brand Instagram and influencer marketing Trends of Influencer Marketing from 2015 Advice for those who want to be an influencer Types of content Contact Danielle Wiley: Danielle Twitter Danielle LinkedIn More from Danielle: Sway Group Blog References and links mentioned: Facebook Instagram Pinterest Snapchat Sway Group Subscribe to & Review Social PR Secrets Podcast Thanks for tuning into this week’s episode of the Social PR Secrets podcast by Lisa Buyer. If the information in this show’s interview inspired you in your business or life journey, feel free to head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us an honest review. Your feedback helps us continue to not only deliver actionable, relevant, helpful content, it will also help us reach even more amazing entrepreneurs, disruptors, and rockstars just like you!

How much do you understand about influencer marketing? Influencer marketing is all the rave in 2020, even though this interview is a blast from the past, it is still, if not more relevant today. Danielle Wiley is the founder and CEO of Sway Group and has nearly 25 years of industry experience. Danielle shares all of her valuable knowledge of successful and effective influencer marketing. In this episode, hear about how influencer marketing benefits a brand and how to make it effective. How much trust goes into an influencer and company relationship? What does it mean to become an influencer? Lisa and Danielle dive deep into what influencer marketing meant in 2015, with information that is still applicable today. “Be true to your niche and explore it as much as you can” - Danielle Wiley Some topics discussed in this episode include: What does influencer marketing mean to a brand? Trust between an influencer and a brand Instagram and influencer marketing Trends of Influencer Marketing from 2015 Advice for those who want to be an influencer Types of content Contact Danielle Wiley: Danielle Twitter Danielle LinkedIn More from Danielle: Sway Group Blog References and links mentioned: Facebook Instagram Pinterest Snapchat Sway Group Subscribe to & Review Social PR Secrets Podcast Thanks for tuning into this week’s episode of the Social PR Secrets podcast by Lisa Buyer. If the information in this show’s interview inspired you in your business or life journey, feel free to head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us an honest review. Your feedback helps us continue to not only deliver actionable, relevant, helpful content, it will also help us reach even more amazing entrepreneurs, disruptors, and rockstars just like you!

Danielle Wiley, CEO of Sway Group, joins this episode to talk about influencer marketing and how brands are using it to generate more demand for their products and services. Listen as Danielle and I dive into how influencer marketing works, why more and more companies in the B2B space are adopting it, and how you can win over customers with the power of story-telling.

Danielle Wiley is the founder and CEO of Sway Group, a multi-million dollar marketing agency centered on influencer generated content. A blogger since 2002 and an executive at Edelman in Chicago (one of the largest PR firms in the world), Danielle recognized the high-level engagement involved with bloggers. After launching Sway group in 2011, the… The post Episode 22: Building a Multi-Million Dollar Marketing Agency From Scratch, with Danielle Wiley of Sway Group appeared first on A-Cup Podcast.

Wait until you hear today's episode. I'm interviewing Jenny Melrose from The Melrose Family and JennyMelrose.com. Jenny is an expert on how to win working with brands. We get into it all in this interview. Want to know how to reach out to companies you want to work with? What to write in your email? How many times to follow up? How much to charge? If you are an influencer or want to become one, you must listen to this! Resources: The Melrose Family Jenny Melrose Sway Group Pollinate Izea Catch My Party MiloTree Pitch Perfect Pro Social Bluebook Influencer Entrepreneurs Podcast The Blogger Genius Podcast Transcript - How to WIN at Working with Brands with Jenny Melrose Host 0:03 Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast. Brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian Tohber Leslie 0:11 Hello everybody. Welcome back to Rhe Blogger Genius Podcast. Today, my guest is Jenny Melrose. Now Jenny has two blogs. She is a lifestyle blogger and she's the founder of The Melrose Family. And then she also has her own site JennyMelrose.com. How to work with brands as a blogger Jillian Tohber Leslie 0:30 What we're going to talk about today is working with brands, strategies for getting brands to notice you, how to reach out, and how to really build that part of your business. So Jenny, welcome to the show. Jenny Melrose 0:44 Thank you so much, Jillian for having me. I'm so excited to get to share some of my little tidbits of trainings and things with your audience. Jillian Tohber Leslie 0:52 Perfect. Okay, so Jenny, will you tell us how you started? Jenny Melrose 0:57 Absolutely. My lifestyle site, The Melrose Family has been up and running for nine years, so I'm a little bit of a dinosaur. It started off just kind of as a hobby. I was a new mother and kind of lost myself, in needed something to kind of have a creative outlet. Jenny Melrose 1:17 I started writing. Back then it was, this is what we did today and this is what we ate for lunch. And then it transitioned, as I saw other bloggers, and got into different communities, seeing that they were actually able to start making an income. As a blogger start by solving problems and pain points Jenny Melrose 1:31 I transitioned into making sure that I delivered content that solved problems and pain points for an audience. Jenny Melrose 1:38 When The Melrose Family was started it was prior to Pinterest and Instagram. So I've been able to kind of learn the strategies that work on social media, as I've grown with those outlets. Jenny Melrose 1:52 And then as I got further along in it, probably three years or so into it, I started making an income working with brands, where I would create content for them in exchange for a fee that I decided I would charge, based on my kind of influence that I had at that time. Jillian Tohber Leslie 2:13 Were these brands that were reaching out to you? And were you surprised or were you strategic? Using networks to get sponsored posts as a blogger Jenny Melrose 2:19 So when I first started, I didn't actually reach out to a ton of brands myself, I kind of used networks. Bloggers would let you know, I'm in this network, or that network, there's all, there's so many of them. There's the Sway Group, Pollinate, Izea has one TapInfluence used to be one that's now owned by Izea. Jenny Melrose 2:36 But the way that the networks work is you apply, and then you put in your social numbers, as well as like your analytics for Google, how many page views you're seeing for your traffic. And you also put in all of your personal information as far as how old are you, how many kids you have, do you have a pet. Jenny Melrose 2:53 So they can determine if you are a good fit for the brand that has come to them with a certain amount of money, and then they would hire you in order to create a sponsored post. Jenny Melrose 3:05 I used the networks for quite some time. But the problem that I ran into is that I was like a needle in a haystack. There were so many bloggers, I wasn't standing out. Jenny Melrose 3:17 So about from year three to about year five, I started honing in on my own strategy where I would pitch myself to the brands. Jenny Melrose 3:28 I never saw a million page views. I think at the height of when Pinterest really was driving a ton of traffic, as well as Facebook. I was probably seeing about 700,000 page views but have since been cut in half because of the algorithm change. Jillian Tohber Leslie 3:43 Totally. It's happened to all of us. Jenny Melrose 3:45 Yes. So because of that, I was never one of these huge bloggers that all the brands knew about, and came flooding in to work with me via email. I had to really go out there and reach out to the brands that I knew and loved, to show why my audience would want to hear about their product. Jenny Melrose 4:07 That was from year three to year five. It changed everything for me. At that time was also an inner city school district teacher, was working full time, and I had a second baby and was miserable. Not because I didn't love my students that I had. But I never saw my kids. It was I missed out on everything I felt like. So my sponsor post income actually took over for my teaching salary. Jillian Tohber Leslie 4:37 Wow. How building a blog can change your life Jenny Melrose 4:37 And I was able to retire at 35. Jillian Tohber Leslie 4:40 Wow, wow, I can tell you know, it's funny because I've, I think you are Episode 40, or something like that. How many women have a very similar story to you. Jillian Tohber Leslie 4:53 Many teachers, but many who start their blogs of as a way to make sense of their lives once they become mothers, like how to find meaning, how to hold on to a piece of themselves, how to be creativ. You know, when you're all you're doing is thinking about your kid not having a meltdown and what the right snack is to possibly solve that. Jillian Tohber Leslie 5:16 And then the fact that you've been able to learn and grow and figure out your niche. I just I'm always so inspired by that. Because I do believe that when we start businesses, we don't know where they're going to take us. Jillian Tohber Leslie 5:32 For you, by being able to be savvy and go toward what was working. I mean that you were able to change your life. Jenny Melrose 5:39 Yes, absolutely. Jillian Tohber Leslie 5:43 And be there to solve the problem of being home with your children, or being a much more present mom. Jenny Melrose 5:49 Yes. And now with having left teaching, we moved from New York to North Carolina, and I am now home with the girls. I'm able to put them on the bus, pick them up and bring them to their different events which I never got to do. Jenny Melrose 6:08 And I started the other side of my business once we moved down here, which was the JennyMelrose.com side. And I did it primarily because I knew what it was like to want to make this something, to make it a business, and not knowing who to turn to, or what to listen to, to know how to move it forward. How being a teacher helps you as a blogger Jenny Melrose 6:28 I wanted to be able to be that resource for other moms. And I honestly attract a ton of teachers, because I'm very strategic in the way that I teach things. I'm very much a teacher, and it's given me that passion. I always love to teach. I always loved my students. For me to be able to turn back into my love of teaching and now help these women make their wives business, it's a passion for me. Jillian Tohber Leslie 7:04 Yep. And again, I think that there is something to you know about building your business and learning along the way. Jillian Tohber Leslie 7:13 Because, Jenny, if I said, guess what, in five years or ten years, here's how your life's going to be. You would never believe this. Jenny Melrose 7:21 Oh, no. Like, if someone had said to me three, even even three years ago, when we first left New York, that I would be doing what I do know. I mean, I have spoken at probably 10 to 15 different conferences just this year. I have a podcast. There's so many different aspects of this, that it has become just something that I love to be able to do. I never would have believed someone that that's what I was going to end up doing. Jillian Tohber Leslie 7:48 I love that. I do again, for us, for example, MiloTree, our second business, which, if you look at it, you'd be like, wow, that has nothing to do with Catch My Party, our first business. Jillian Tohber Leslie 8:00 We built MiloTree, not because we thought it was a business, but because it's solved a problem for us for Catch My Party. It grew our social followers. And then we're like, wait a second. Because I to feel very similarly to you, which is I want to help moms, entrepreneurs, grow their businesses in as effortlessly as possible. Jillian Tohber Leslie 8:21 And so we're like, Hey, we could offer this as you know, we could roll this out as a separate business and see what happens. Be open to new opportunities as a blogger Jillian Tohber Leslie 8:29 And so again, my recommendation or my piece of advice, you could tell me what you think about this, is to just start growing your business and to be mindful of how it's growing, to see opportunities that you would never have thought were out there. Jenny Melrose 8:45 Yes. and not being afraid to take that risk. It takes courage, honestly, to do what so many of us do, because it is the wild wild west. Jillian Tohber Leslie 8:55 It is the Wild West. Jenny Melrose 8:56 Yeah, to being able to say, okay, I'm know the algorithms are going to change. I know that I'm going to have to be flexible. Jenny Melrose 9:04 I didn't go to school for technology. Cell phones didn't exist when I was in college, but I'm going to make this work. And I'm going to figure it out. And I'm just going to keep trying to push through that wall. Jenny Melrose 9:17 I firmly believe that you do something where you start looking at who your audience is, and understanding why they're coming to you and continuing to solve problems for them. It's a business and once you start to treat it like a business, everyone else will too. And it can just it can explode it really can. Jillian Tohber Leslie 9:39 Yes. I so agree. It's so it's so funny because we are so like-minded in this way. What is influencer marketing as a blogger Jillian Tohber Leslie 9:46 So okay. Let's talk then about influencer marketing. Jillian Tohber Leslie 9:52 Which is, I decide I'm going to start my blog. And I want to work with brands. You know, we all love certain brands. Yes. And so how do I think about this as turning let's say, my blog into a business? Jenny Melrose 10:10 So first thing to do is you're probably using product in your posts already. You're probably using a specific ingredient for a recipe, or a particular type of decorating to put together a party, whatever it might be, look at those brands and see who they are, your authentically using them, it's going to come across even to your audience. But it is paid. Jenny Melrose 10:38 Because a lot of the negative kind of connotation I think that comes from sponsor posts. Oh, you're selling out to be able to push their product, when in reality, it's a partnership, they see the value in your audience. Jenny Melrose 10:53 So you're going to want to be able to put it out there for your audience and continue to grow and talk to them about that product. Jenny Melrose 11:03 I always teach my audience of bloggers that are looking to work with brands, look in your pantry. Go see what's in your linen closet. What are those brands that you're already buying and using, so that you can really reach out to them and be authentic. Jenny Melrose 11:21 You want to start with an email address. And then from there, it's just pitching yourself even a little bit, freely pitching your audience because that's what they care about. Jillian Tohber Leslie 11:32 Right. Jenny Melrose 11:33 And I think a lot of times, when bloggers first start to reach out to brands themselves, they will forget that. They will think well, it's all about me, what I can do and what my social stats are. Jenny Melrose 11:45 And that's where a blogger maybe that isn't as large but maybe lives on a farm, and can show the behind the scenes of the farm. And um, any sort of like kitchen equipment she uses, it's going to connect with her audience. And because of that, that brand won't care as much about the page views, they'll care more about the audience that is engaged and interacting with her content. Jillian Tohber Leslie 12:12 So I would say this, women in general have a hard time putting themselves out there and figuring out the story, you know, that really shows them in the best light. Jillian Tohber Leslie 12:28 And I'm wondering if that is what you're saying, by not focusing so much about how great you are, but focusing on how great your audience is, that could be a way in that seems less scary. How to pitch to brands as a blogger Jenny Melrose 12:43 I do a Pitch Perfect live every four months where I do this free training on and we're in the middle of it. And the first two days we spent them really figuring out exactly what you said, about how are you unique, what makes you you. Jenny Melrose 13:05 Because honestly pitching is 50% confidence 25% is then the follow up and the other 25% is the pitch that you send. Jenny Melrose 13:15 But if you don't have the confidence to be able to send it and to be able to follow up with them you're done. Jenny Melrose 13:23 You have to really know, and be able to articulate what it is about you for yourself, and be able to look at your business like a business. So that when you send that email you're not going to take it personally when they don't answer. Or you're not going to take it personally when they come back and say, hey we don't have any money right now. And you're like yeah, you do, you are Kellogg's or whoever it is you pitched. Jenny Melrose 13:49 You have to have really thick skin. And then what I teach is you then turn it towards that audience. It can kind of get the pressure off of you. Jenny Melrose 14:02 Because like you said, as women, we have a terrible habit of not being able to know what makes us different. I had a client that kept saying to me my pitches, all right. It's good. But I can't. I don't know how to explain how I'm a little bit different. Think about what makes you different as a blogger Jenny Melrose 14:19 And I looked at her and I read through her pitch and said, well, how many kids do you have again? And she says, 10. Oh, and you homeschool them, that's what makes you different. Jenny Melrose 14:37 You run a parenting blog and you have 10 children that you homeschool. Your audience comes to you because of who you are. They know that you have experience and then you're you're not just randomly pulling this out of wherever it is personal. I'm learning from raising 10 children. Jillian Tohber Leslie 15:04 So I tend to interrupt. I'm so sorry. Could we talk about fake it till you make it? Jenny Melrose 15:10 Yes. Oh my goodness. It's one of my favorite phrases. And it's something I've been saying this entire week. So I love it. Jenny Melrose 15:17 It's just when you have that confidence that you run a business and you are a powerhouse. You're not going to take anything kind of negative coming back as badly as you would if you didn't have that confidence. When it's not worth working with a brand as a blogger Jenny Melrose 15:34 And a lot of times bloggers will say to me, well, I got pitched to work on for a bag of granola. And I'll say okay, well, is that granola, something that's valuable to you for your time? Could you say that, that bag of granola is what you would get paid on a sponsored post for doing all the pictures, doing the social shares everything that goes into it? Jenny Melrose 15:54 If the answer is no, then you need to turn around tell that company: Listen, I appreciate and I love your granola. But in order to keep the integrity of my site to my readers, and any previous brands I've worked with, I only work on compensated content. Jenny Melrose 16:10 And what they always, these bloggers that are newer will always come back to me and say, but Jenny, I haven't worked with any brands. How can I say that? Jenny Melrose 16:19 No one is going to spend their time going back to see if you've done a sponsored post or not. So to being able to just have that confidence to say, you know what, my time is not worth a bag of granola. I built up this following, I have an audience at this size. And I deserve to get paid for my time. Or I'm just not going to do it. I'm going to walk away. Jillian Tohber Leslie 16:51 Yeah, I've shared this previously. Once I became a mother, it looked like my confidence went up tenfold. But the reality was, I got super busy. Jillian Tohber Leslie 17:05 So a brand would come to me and say, we want to pay you x. And I would think that was too low. So I'd double it or even triple it. And I'd go, Yeah, sorry. Here is my rate, here is why. And I write like the fastest email. And before I could even think about it, I would press Send. Jillian Tohber Leslie 17:27 And if I didn't have my daughter at, you know, and she wasn't in diapers. And it wasn't just a big hot mess in my house, I would have gone up into my head, and I would have second guessed myself. And I would have said, Oh God, should I send this email, maybe I shouldn't double my fee. I would have over thought it and I wouldn't have sent the email. Jillian Tohber Leslie 17:48 So the fact that all of a sudden, I had all these different priorities. And you know what, I'd forget that I had sent that email. So they didn't get back me, I wouldn't remember, right. And so it weirdly tricked me into being much more confident. Jenny Melrose 18:08 Right, and you valued your time, you knew that you only had a certain amount of time. And if you were wanting to put your time into doing a post, it was taking away from your daughter, and your time is valuable. Jillian Tohber Leslie 18:21 Yes. Jenny Melrose 18:21 And we all need to realize that. And I know that there's this kind of feel, where I've watched a lot of bloggers, like rip into new bloggers about don't work for free product, you're ruining it for all of us. And that's not true. If it's valuable to them where they would spend that time and if the product is a $300 blender and their price is normally $300, that makes sense to them. Jenny Melrose 18:47 So, you know, not kind of looking down upon, but knowing what's valuable a lot of times to when you're first starting out, to pitch and work with brands. Sometimes they'll offer and it's kind of like a test. Jenny Melrose 19:01 I wouldn't say, even if you're a new blogger, to do a blog post for a bag of granola, it's not worth it. But I might say, do social share, do an Instagram story, and then prove to them with that data that you're given inside Instagram that you're worth the price that you're asking. Jenny Melrose 19:21 I've had people that bloggers that have told me, Oh, I told her I couldn't pay my mortgage with granola, can she? and I'm like oh, boy. Jenny Melrose 19:31 Yeah, not the best way to go. Jillian Tohber Leslie 19:35 I like that. But no, don't do that. Why MiloTree will help you if you are trying to work with brands Jillian Tohber Leslie 19:39 I wanted to take a short break to talk about MiloTree. Now. If you want to be working with brands, you know that social media followers matter. But not just any sort of social media follower, an engaged follower. And that's why MiloTree is so cool. Jillian Tohber Leslie 19:56 Especially on a platform, let's say like Instagram, you are converting your site visitors into followers. And what better follower than somebody who's already been to your site, seen your content, knows who you are, those are the followers you want. Jillian Tohber Leslie 20:13 Those are the followers who will make you look great on social media. So if you sign up for MiloTree now, you get your first 30 days free. So go do it. And now back to the show. Jillian Tohber Leslie 20:28 Well, okay, so we talked tactics. How to contact a brand to do sponsored posts as a blogger Jillian Tohber Leslie 20:32 First off, you mentioned email, you said find their you know, email that how do I find a brand's email address? Jenny Melrose 20:39 Such a good question. So you want to start by going to their website. And if you go up to the top tab, or sometimes even down in the footer, you want to look for something that says media or press releases. Jenny Melrose 20:50 Once you get a press release, you want to pay attention to whatever product they're talking about, because it's probably a product that you should pitch to help them promote. Jillian Tohber Leslie 20:59 Yes. Jenny Melrose 21:00 Look down towards the bottom, where it signed from the PR person and they're going to have their email address on that press release. That is the person that you want to work with. Jenny Melrose 21:10 A lot of times bloggers will come back to me and see, but it's not Kellogg's that's on there, it is some random PR company. Jenny Melrose 21:16 Every brand for the most part, unless they're teeny tiny mom and pop brand, is using a PR company. You're never working directly with that brand. But a PR company is your gatekeeper that it's going to be the one that you want to talk to. Jenny Melrose 21:32 Now, sometimes you can't find an email address. They don't make this easy. I actually had someone today asked me is there just a list of like all the toy brand emails? I'm like, Girl, are you great, right? Everyone would be pitching! No. Jenny Melrose 21:47 So if you can't find an email address, what we've actually seen huge results with it's doing an Insta story. Because what happens is like you take a picture of that, whatever the brand is that you're trying to reach out. When you say something cute about how you love it, and you tag them in your Insta story. It goes right into their DMs. Jillian Tohber Leslie 22:07 Yep. Jenny Melrose 22:08 Now when they give you a little heart for having put up that Insta story, you're going to immediately reply to them and say hey, I love your product. I'd love to get the email address for the person on your team that works on blogger or influencer campaigns. Jillian Tohber Leslie 22:25 I love that strategy. I always recommend Twitter because again, brands are listening. But I hadn't thought about doing it with Insta stories. Trying an Insta story to connect with brands Jenny Melrose 22:33 Their Twitter was actually the way that I started out teaching this too, because I've had Pitch Perfect Pro now has been open for two years. And originally it was Twitter based. But then Insta stories came out we saw the results just so much quicker because all the brands want you on Instagram. Jenny Melrose 22:53 If you're not an Instagram you're not gonna be able to work with brand at this point. And it goes to direct message which at yet the problem is with Twitter, is that you can put out a tweet but it's out there and then you need them to follow you in order to do a message as well. extra steps. This is so much easier. Jillian Tohber Leslie 23:16 That is brilliant. That's brilliant. Okay, do you have a recommend, let's sa,y I found the email address. Do you have a recommendation for a subject line that will get your email opened? Jenny Melrose 23:29 Such a good question. Do a lot of times bloggers will want to put like "blogger influencer" or "collaboration" or something like that. I tell them what makes you stand out? What makes you different? Jenny Melrose 23:41 So if you have an Instagram account that has 300,000 followers you're going to put Instagram influencer with 300,000 followers collaboration up in your subject line. Or if you do a hands and pans and you have a huge Facebook page, you're going to put that in the subject line. Jenny Melrose 24:01 A lot of times people will rely on social media to kind of say what makes them unique. But you could also mom of 10. Jillian Tohber Leslie 24:10 Yep, yep. Jenny Melrose 24:12 Exactly. You want to kind of try to stand out. Because like those blogger partnership subject lines do not work. Jillian Tohber Leslie 24:23 Got it. So that's what I was going to say. Because I'm sure they get pitched all the time. How to write an email to a brand to get a sponsored post Jenny Melrose 24:28 Yeah, and this is definitely a process. Lot of times they will test you they'll see your first email and open it up, and not reply to you. But they need to see than you actually are invested. And you're going to follow up an email them again, a lot of times, the majority of the brands will answer until the second or third email. And it's not because they haven't seen it. It's because they really want to see that you're invested. Jillian Tohber Leslie 24:54 Interesting. Okay, long email or short email? Jenny Melrose 24:58 So I actually have a pitch checklist that has nine points to it that you kind of want to include. Normally, I would say you're looking for two to three paragraphs, you're not looking to tell your life story. You're going to really hone in on audience and you want to know something about that brand. Jenny Melrose 25:19 So if you go to the brand's website, and there's a tagline that you know is theirs, use that language when you're pitching about what you're going to put together. Jenny Melrose 25:29 Now, the other thing about this is your pitch should not include a specific project or recipe that you're going to do. It should be general. So in other words, if I was going to pitch Bob's Red Mill,  I would be pitching right now. First, you want to pitch three to four months in advance, so I wouldn't even be pitching necessary fall. I'd be thinking actually kind of Christmas or Thanksgiving. Jenny Melrose 25:56 When I put together the pitch. I'm not going to tell him that I'd love to make my grandmother's award winning apple pie with a strudel crust. Because if they're not thinking apple pie, you're done. Jillian Tohber Leslie 26:09 Right. Jenny Melrose 26:10 But instead, if you had said I would love to put together a comfort festive pie for Christmas, or for the holidays, that's likely to get you in the door. Because now you can let them kind of tell you what direction they want to go. Jenny Melrose 26:28 So is it the new type of flour that just came out, that's gluten free, then you can kind of go that direction and let them lead you. Jenny Melrose 26:37 They normally have their own ideas as far as a campaign of what they're trying to pitch, because they know their products that are coming out, right. So if you're general enough, it'll let them kind of see what you're thinking and give you a chance to actually put together a proposal and get on the phone with them. Try to get a sponsor on the phone to close the deal Jillian Tohber Leslie 26:57 I agree. Oh, my God, if any time I can get on the phone with a brand I get the job. Jenny Melrose 27:03 Yes. Yes. Because you can let them lead the conversation and find out exactly where, if you can ask the one question that I think always put the brand at ease is when I say okay, what are your KPIs? Jillian Tohber Leslie 27:17 Yes! What are KPI and why do they matter to bloggers? Jenny Melrose 27:18 Key performance indicators. A lot of bloggers you know, we aren't thinking that way, were just thinking like, okay, we gotta get, we gotta get this. We need some income coming in. Jillian Tohber Leslie 27:26 They think I can make it pretty. Jenny Melrose 27:28 Yes. But they have certain goals. Are they trying to get out of product? Are they looking for you to go to their website? Are they looking to grow their Instagram? Yep, you have to ask those types of questions. They know you're really wanting to know about the brand are going to be able to help them meet their goals. Not yours. Jillian Tohber Leslie 27:47 Yes. In fact, you know, again, I have mentioned this previously also, which is we love ourselves, we do because you know what, if I love myself, I will take care of myself and I will survive, and my genes will get into the next generation. Like it's a survival thing, an evolutionary thing to put myself first, right? Jillian Tohber Leslie 28:08 So this is also the same for brands, brands love themselves. So anytime you can use their tagline, anytime you can put yourself in the position of this brand, and give them back the messaging that they are trying to give to their customers. They will love you. Jillian Tohber Leslie 28:28 So it becomes even less about you, and more about Do you see what they're about? Do you understand that? And can you pitch it right back to them? Jenny Melrose 28:37 Right. Yes, anytime you can show that you know what you're talking about. When it comes to that brand, they are going to stop and listen. Jenny Melrose 28:44 I've had so many brands that will come to me and say that they are looking for something in particular. And I'll be able to ask those questions to then drive them towards what they want. Jenny Melrose 28:57 I had one brand in particular, it's a very big skin company and came to me and asked, okay, we'd love for you to put up this Facebook video. No mention of money whatsoever. Jenny Melrose 29:08 So I emailed back and said, Listen, I absolutely love Kristen Bell. And I think she's super cute. But in order to keep the integrity and my site to my readers, and I'm previous brands I work with, I only work on compensate content, I'd love to send your media kit and a proposal for your review. Jenny Melrose 29:25 They came back and then in my proposal, I was able to talk about the fact that I have two little girls, one that's really very pale, very Irish, and the other one who is very olive skin, and I need two different sunscreens in order to work for both girls ,and how I love the company. It's the only sunscreen we use, and that resulted in a five figure long term contract with that brand. Jillian Tohber Leslie 29:51 Wow, that's terrific. Jillian Tohber Leslie 29:52 And they started simply wanting me to post a Facebook video up, because what happens is, as bloggers when been around for a while, you end up on these PR companies lists and they'll just send a blast email. They have no idea if you have 3 million followers or three. Jenny Melrose 30:10 Yeah, I think you have to come back with them. I've had so many bloggers that have been around for a while. Let's say I get these pitches all the time. I'm just deleting them. I said no, don't delete them go back at them and show them who you are. Jillian Tohber Leslie 30:24 Right, and assume everybody else's deleting them. Jenny Melrose 30:29 Yes, that's exactly right. And they do obviously have a campaign in mind. They just don't know how to get it out there. How to discuss your rates with a brand as a blogger Jillian Tohber Leslie 30:36 Right. Okay. Do I put my rate in an email? Jenny Melrose 30:41 Love this question! No. You never put rates in an email, and I believe you don't create a rate sheet. I teach that you put together a proposal and a proposal is a package price that they get one price for everything. Jenny Melrose 30:59 Because I have sat in at multiple conferences when I've been speaking and listen to other brands that are speaking, and I have heard them say, no matter what price you pitch, I'm cutting you in half. Jillian Tohber Leslie 31:12 Ooh, okay. Jenny Melrose 31:15 So if you go to them with let's say, $1,500 is your package deal. It gets them a blog posts, social shares on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest. And then you also throw in... I would always recommend any form of video. So if you want to do Insta stories and IGTV or a Facebook Live, which is what I'm known for, and I have an idea of what I kind of charge for that in my own head. And you should kind of know what you're charging for everything. Jenny Melrose 31:47 But for me, I'm charging a minimum of $500 for Facebook Live. So when I tell them $1,500, and they come back at me and say, we can't quite to $1,500, but we can do $1,200 say. Okay, I'm going to take out the live broadcast. And now my blog posts, social shares just went from what I would normally say $1,000 went to $1,200. So I'm still getting what I'm worth. Jillian Tohber Leslie 32:14 Got it, but you are willing to say, Nope, I'm not going to do this. Jenny Melrose 32:18 Right. Exactly. Jillian Tohber Leslie 32:19 Will they come back at you and say, well, we kind of want that. So okay? Or not? Jenny Melrose 32:24 If they do come back. A lot of times, honestly, they don't come back once. They won't come back and ask for it to go back. And they'll just say, Yep, okay, because they feel like I gave up something without realizing that it's not the value that they're asking for. What is a "hate rate" as a blogger? Jenny Melrose 32:39 And if they try to cut me like, let's say, I'm at $1,500, and they try to cut me to $750, I absolutely tell every one of my students, you have to have a hate rate, right? So it's a rate in which you would hate yourself if you took it because your value is not that low. And the content is going to be terrible. Because you're going to be annoyed at the fact that you're working for half what you're worth. Jillian Tohber Leslie 33:07 I think that's great. I love the hate rate idea. Jenny Melrose 33:13 Yes, it's tremendous. It makes it so much easier to kind of go into it, knowing your prices. And a lot of people will say to me, Well, how do we, I don't know how to price myself? Jenny Melrose 33:23 Well, there's a site called SocialBluebook.com. It's like Kelley Blue Book for cars. But instead it's going to measure your social influence you put in your Instagram, Twitter, all of your social and then you also can pop in your Google Analytics. Jenny Melrose 33:38 So now you're able to get an idea on what you should be charging. It'll give you a range of a rate so that if you've been blogging for a while, and you're like nope. I'm worth more than that, then that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that you know, your value has been around for a while. It's a great site for bloggers that really don't know how to price themselves. Jillian Tohber Leslie 34:02 That is great, I've never heard of it. Jillian Tohber Leslie 34:05 Now here's a question, what if I just want to be an Instagram influencer? And I don't want a blog or what is your thought about that? Jenny Melrose 34:17 That is totally fine. You are absolutely running the risk of Instagram shutting down and your business would shut down with it. Don't build your business on someone else's platform Jenny Melrose 34:28 So I would always kind of try to say you don't build your business on someone else's platform. Only thing that you own is your your website, you have your own website and your email list. So brands will absolutely pay for Instagram influencers, I would just if you're going to create content, I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. I would try to make sure that I have something that is my own. Jenny Melrose 34:59 Growing email, offering product or services that you can grow an email through, I'm using Instagram. I've seen tons of bloggers do that. And I think that that makes sense to me on just being an influencer, you can absolutely do it and make money. But who knows for how long. Jillian Tohber Leslie 35:19 I agree with you completely. I say this all the time, which is it's really cheap to start a blog. So just own a piece of real estate on the internet. Jenny Melrose 35:32 Yes. Jillian Tohber Leslie 35:33 And over time, if you're saying making content for these other platforms, just put them on. Put it on your blog, you know, like, it's not hard and just at least have a piece of real estate. Jenny Melrose 35:47 Yeah, and I think that people get caught up because they think. Oh, my goodness, if I have Instagram, and I have Twitter and Facebook and Pinterest in my blog, I have to create all this different content. When in reality, you can reuse that content, you can adjust it so that the image is Instagram friendly, as compared to Pinterest friendly. And make it so that you are still using that same content. Advice: Crosspost your content everywhere as a blogger Jenny Melrose 36:21 And you have to remember that the algorithms don't let people see things. So putting out content is fine to have it on multiple platforms, the exact same as long as you're using like the prescribed images that they say to use. That's best for like Facebook and Instagram, and then Pinterest, because it's not necessarily going to get seen right away. Jenny Melrose 36:51 And even if you have someone on Facebook, that's also on Instagram, maybe they're only going to see the Instagram post. Or maybe they'll see the Facebook post. But so cross post thing is I would highly recommend, and I think it's fine to reuse content. Jillian Tohber Leslie 37:04 Yeah, and God forbid somebody sees the exact same photo of that cake twice, right? It's not the end of the world. And remember, for people to like buy from a brand, usually they have to touch that brand like seven times Jenny Melrose 37:19 I was just going to say that that's like my favorite stat to give because it's so true, and I didn't realize how true it was until I had a client that has bought my course, part of my membership site, and has done one-on-one services with me, a year after my podcast was started and she said I didn't know you had a podcast! And I'm like, How is that possible? Jenny Melrose 37:45 I talk about this all the time, but clearly I'm not. I'm not so putting it out there continuously, your audience has to hear things at least seven times. We're just so busy and things fly by, algorithms hide things So continuing to use that content, there's nothing wrong with that. Jillian Tohber Leslie 38:06 Absolutely, so right now today it is September 5 when we're recording this. Jillian Tohber Leslie 38:15 If I were to step into the role of the brand. What am I looking for today from influencers? Is it Instagram? Is it is it traffic to my site, like what what what's most important to me right now as a brand? Jenny Melrose 38:36 If the brand is smart, they understand that beautiful photos, that also give an authentic story that gets engagement, matters more than anything else. Jenny Melrose 38:50 I think a lot of brands will get caught up in the numbers and think okay, I've got this Instagram influencers. She's got 3 million followers, but those 3 million followers may not interact the same way that that other girl with 3,000 followers may interact and engage because of the algorithms, and the way that things change. You need an Instagram business account if you want to be an influencer Jenny Melrose 39:09 So it's more about the authentic story, and the engagement that that blogger or influencer is getting. I would definitely say that bloggers absolutely need to have an Instagram presence and you need to have a business account. Jenny Melrose 39:25 If you want to work with a brand, you need to have business accounts not so they can track you. But so that you can provide them with the data to be able to say, I was worth it. I got you this many impressions and this many pieces of engagement and you have to be able to report that to them. Jenny Melrose 39:45 And on Facebook. If you're don't have a business account you are, and you're promoting that you are breaking all sorts of Facebook rules. Jillian Tohber Leslie 39:54 Yes, that is true. But like, for example, do brands want clicks to their site? Do they want people, like we've done this relatively recently where a brand was running a contest, and they want people to come, you know, see what you're saying, and then go enter their contest. Or are brands predominantly just looking for kind of warm, fuzzy? Jenny Melrose 40:20 So the smart ones are understanding that if you're paying for sponsored post, it's different than an affiliate program. Because as a sponsored post, it's about providing your influence. It's not about selling a product. Jenny Melrose 40:36 For affiliate marketing, you need to sell a product in order to make money off of that, which means you need to rely on their website to actually sell. Jenny Melrose 40:43 For a sponsored post I might promote, and let's say a salad dressing. And they're going to ask me to link to their website. If that salad dressing company thinks that anyone is going to buy a salad dressing from their website site, they're out of their mind, right? That's just not what we do. Jenny Melrose 41:04 We are influencing them to remember that the next time they go into the grocery store. Oh, so Jenny was talking about that salad dressing. Let me pick up that salad dressing so it's not trackable in the sense that clicks and buys are trackable. Brands want engagement from bloggers and influencers Jenny Melrose 41:20 And when a brand understands that that is the purpose of a sponsored post. That's when the relationship works well, when they can see there's engagement. That's how they're measuring it. They're not measuring it based on click stories and engagement. I mean, like, comments, likes, shares, any of that kind of thing, right, not necessarily clicks and purchases. Jillian Tohber Leslie 41:41 Got it? Now do you recommend that the influencer proactively send analytics back to the brand? Jenny Melrose 41:53 Yeah, so inside of my course Pitch Perfect Pro, I actually teach exactly what to provide them with. The reason I started my course was because what I found worked really well for me, as I could in a network. When I used to work in the networks. That was one and done. I never had contact with that PR company. But my sponsored income started just growing and become filling up my editorial calendar because I was getting long term contracts. Jenny Melrose 42:22 I would work with them once. And then I would provide them with my data on a silver platter tied in a bow. And they would say, Oh, my God, you just did my work for me, and delivered exactly what we were looking for or whatever it might be. So yes, let's talk about three posts or let's talk about six whatever it might be. Jenny Melrose 42:46 And that's what I teach. Honestly, like Pitch Perfect Pro isn't about just getting a one sponsored posts with the brand. It's about creating a long term relationship with a brand so that you're not looking at next month going on. Okay, what income do I have coming in? Am I actually making money, I have these expenses, whatever it may be. I remember that feeling of looking at it and going, Okay, what's coming in next month? Oh, I have no idea. Fabulous. Jillian Tohber Leslie 43:18 Right. And I would argue that your influence, your authority, with that brand increases for your audience, the more you are in a relationship with that brand. Jenny Melrose 43:30 Yes. Because they see the authenticity, then they see that relationship that you're continuing to partner with them. Yes, absolutely. Jillian Tohber Leslie 43:39 So in terms of scaling posts, do you think it's easier? Also, one thing that that is difficult about sponsored content is you're always starting over. You have a new project and like, okay, what's the new recipe, that kind of thing? How to incorporate keywords and SEO in your sponsored posts as a blogger Jillian Tohber Leslie 43:58 Do you have any strategies for how to think through your process of doing sponsored posts, so that you're not necessarily starting at the way beginning again? Jenny Melrose 44:09 So I think that it really comes down to like trying to find that rock content of what your readers are coming to you for knowing and doing your research ahead of time. Jenny Melrose 44:18 Like I know, you have had podcast interviews with people about SEO, I think, doing your research and knowing what you're ranking for is so important, so that if you're ranking for comfort food, and it's a particular type of comfort food, keeping that brand if you have three posts with them, even within that form of those keywords is about it, that them and you it's really when you create content, it's about weaving a spider web, it's not about shooting them all different directions, they have no idea what they're coming to you for. Jenny Melrose 44:50 It's about keeping them on your site. I hear from so many people, oh, my audience just comes from Pinterest, because they're looking for a recipe. Okay, but let's have other you know, pieces, other recipes, side dishes or salads, or something that can go with that recipe that you're weaving a spider web around that audience member to be like, why I really liked it. This Yes, this is the right type of food for me. This is this is the way I want to be eating whatever it might be. Jillian Tohber Leslie 45:20 Oh, I like that. So you're therefore thinking about creating cool content for this brand. But also how will this impact your authority, your SEO, your traffic? All of that? Jenny Melrose 45:32 Yes. Make sure to follow through with your sponsored content and deliver Jillian Tohber Leslie 45:34 I think that is so so right on. Okay, here's another one last question. And we'll wrap up with, is one thing that I have heard from people who work at these influencer networks, is that bloggers can be irresponsible when creating content. Jenny Melrose 45:57 Yes. And those honestly are the bloggers that ruin it for many of us. Not the ones that take a bag of granola, the ones that don't follow through and deliver. You can't be doing this, if you are going to want to get paid, you need to run it like a business, and you can't miss deadlines, and miss part of the deliverables that you're supposed to be giving to that brand if you've signed a contract. Because really, you have entered into a legal transaction with them. And they can say, Listen, you didn't deliver this, you're not getting paid. Jenny Melrose 46:35 And I think when we get into the mindset of thinking of a I'm a business, I need to make sure that if I'm agreeing to a certain deadline that I can deliver that now. There are definitely some times where I think the networks can kind of be a little pushy with the way they want things done. Jenny Melrose 46:57 And I often think that sometimes because the network is the middleman, they'll go back to the brands and come back to you, and you can end up six edits in and all of a sudden the brand decides that that's not not what they wanted in the first place. And you're redoing the entire post. Jenny Melrose 47:13 So standing up for yourself being like, you know, making sense of what they're trying to ask you. I've had some clients tell me, they told me this date. And then they turned around and because of their edits turn around and wanted it the next day. Jenny Melrose 47:26 I had that happen with me, they turned around and it was like Black Friday or over Thanksgiving, they wanted it the next day. Meanwhile, they had been sitting on it for two months, and just gave me the edits and expected in 24 hours over a holiday. So there's definitely knowing how to treat yourself like a business, to deliver what you can want is expected. And then to stand up for yourself when you need to is important. Jillian Tohber Leslie 47:54 I like that. And don't you think though, that if you are responsible, and you do deliver, and you do turn things in on time, and you do have a good attitude, that that could really work in your favor, because you can assume there will be other bloggers a lot of times, like a brand will do a campaign and they'll reach out to 10 bloggers who are all creating content for that. And if you are the blogger that delivers, they will come back to you. Jenny Melrose 48:23 Oh, yeah. And that's so true. Not even just with the networks, but also with PR companies, because PR companies don't represent normally one brand. They represent multiple. So if you fit into multiple brands, they'll go to every single time because of one relationship that you built with one PR agent, Jillian Tohber Leslie 48:41 Right. And because they know that you make them look good. Jenny Melrose 48:45 Yes, exactly. Right. Jillian Tohber Leslie 48:47 And that they don't have to track you down. Right. So Jenny, this has been so wonderful. Will you talk about your course and how people can learn more from you? Jenny Melrose 49:00 Yes. Absolutely. So I actually offer a masterclass which will walk you through how to attract your dream sponsors without selling out, and we go through just some of the things that you definitely need to avoid and just being able to put it into practice. Jenny Melrose 49:17 My course Pitch Perfect Pro gives you step by step as you could tell him very much a teacher. You do not skip steps with me. You have to go from A to Z and nothing in between. Jenny Melrose 49:31 And it also provides you with absolutely everything you would need. I'm lifestyle, I've done everything. I've done travel, I've done the vacuums, everything. So my proposals are all in there so that you can see exactly what I do. Jenny Melrose 49:55 And then you're able to actually download it and you can edit it so that you can make it in your own. My follow up procedure that I use. I have a culmination document that I teach all my students to do. Those are all in there. Jenny Melrose 50:08 Pretty much every little thing that you need. Plus, I also have a closed Facebook group that we use for any specific questions that come up. So if you're running into something with a brand. You're like, Oh, I don't know how to handle this. They're asking for rights for the photos. What do I do? That's a question I think we get asked once a month easily. Yes. And I always think double your rates. Jillian Tohber Leslie 50:29 Yes. Jenny Melrose 50:32 And there's that access to me and my team so that we can make sure that you're getting what you deserve. Jillian Tohber Leslie 50:39 Oh, Jenny. Okay. Tell me how people can find you. Jenny Melrose 50:45 You can find me a Jennymelrose.com and my pitch checklist is actually right on the homepage. As soon as you drop in there. It's a cheat sheet that's going to tell you exactly what needs to be inside your pitch on. Jenny Melrose 50:56 You can also find me on my podcast Influencer Entrepreneurs. If you go into iTunes, and you just search Jenny Melrose, it'll pop as well, and and I also do weekly free training on my Jenny Melrose Facebook page so that you can get your questions answered live with me. Jillian Tohber Leslie 51:17 Awesome. Well, Jenny, thank you so much. You are a natural teacher. I have learned so much. Jenny Melrose 51:24 Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Subscribe to The Blogger Genius Podcast Jillian Tohber Leslie 51:28 If you're enjoying the Blogger Genius Podcast, please head on over to iTunes and rate us also if you have not yet subscribe. do that because that way you will miss a new episode. Jillian Tohber Leslie 51:41 And if you guys have any ideas for guests that you want topics you want me to cover. I love hearing from you. Email me Jillian@MiloTree.com.

Today I'm interviewing Kate Kordsmeier, from the blog, Root + Revel.  Kate and I discuss why you need to treat your business like a business from the start, in order to grow. As you'll see, Kate has been able to explode Root + Revel using this strategy. Kate started as a food journalist, but transitioned into full-time food blogger after experiencing a health crisis. We talk a lot about the people Kate has hired to help her grow her business, and why she's not afraid to spend money. If you're thinking of outsourcing your business as a way to grow, you don't want to miss this! Resources: Root + Revel Sway Group Blog Meets Brand TapInfluence Tailwind ShiftCon Butcher Box ConvertKit Food Blogger Pro LeadPages MiloTree Transcript: Why You Need To Treat Your Business Like a Business From The Start with Kate Kordsmeier Host: [00:00:05] Welcome to the Blogger Genius podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian: [00:00:10] Hey guys. Welcome back to the Blogger Genius. I am here today with Kate Kordsmeier. She is the blogger behind Root + Revel. So welcome to the show, Kate. Kate: [00:00:23] Thanks so much for having me. Jillian: [00:00:25] So we were just chatting before and I want you to share your story with everybody because you have an interesting journey. Kate: [00:00:34] Yeah definitely. So you know I went to journalism school for college and graduated, and pretty much immediately started freelance writing for magazines and newspapers. Kate: [00:00:46] So I did that for about seven or eight years. It was amazing. I got to travel the world and I was a food writer so I basically just got paid to eat at the best restaurants around the world. It was, it was great. Jillian: [00:01:01] Wow. Kate: [00:01:02] Yeah. But it was also you know a lot of work and really exhausting. And I started having a lot of health issues around 2014. Kate: [00:01:12] I was really kind of for a while ignoring some issues, and then around 2014 is when I couldn't ignore them anymore. Jillian: [00:01:22] What were you feeling? What were you going through? How healing her body lead to starting a blog Kate: [00:01:24] The biggest thing was that I had a lot of digestion issues. So it was some constipation. And then I also would have these really debilitating bouts of nausea and they would just knock me out and they would come on so suddenly. Kate: [00:01:45] The only link I could ever find to the instances was that it always happened when I was really excited about something. Kate: [00:01:52] So if we were like at a special dinner or on vacation, or I wrote a cookbook and we had a launch party and I was really excited about it, my wedding. Things like that. Kate: [00:02:05] So it was kind of ruined a lot of the most important things in my life. It was really kind of depressing. So that was sort of what kick started it. Kate: [00:02:16] I started going to all these different doctors trying to figure out what was going on with me and to make a long story short. I saw a million different doctors. I tried a bunch of different medications. Nothing was working. Kate: [00:02:28] And so I decided to go go cold turkey on all medication and just see what my body was doing and that included going off the birth control pill, which I had been on for like a decade. Kate: [00:02:39] When I did that my body really freaked out, then I started having a lot of other symptoms from like irregular periods and acne. I had really bad fatigue and just low energy. I had really bad anxiety and it just was kind of this storm of terrible terrible health. Kate: [00:03:01] And so I decided to go the natural route since I had tried everything else and nothing had worked. And that led me really to healing. And so when I saw what a huge difference in my health I found from natural and holistic remedies and just changing the way that I ate it really changed my life. Kate: [00:03:24] I felt like I needed to share that with other people. And so I decided to start a blog. And that was at the end of 2015. Transitioning from freelance food writer to full-time blogger Kate: [00:03:34] And so now I do that full time. I ended up transitioning away from freelance food writing and now I'm with Root + Revel full time. Jillian: [00:03:43] What's it like not having all those fancy meals all over the world and focusing on health? Like how has that been for you. Kate: [00:03:52] Definitely some ups and downs. You know I certainly miss it. And you know you realize like man, this is really expensive to do on your own dollar so that that's not as fun, but I feel so much better. Kate: [00:04:07] And I'm making more money so I can actually afford to do those things on my own and and really enjoy them to their fullest and not have to be working through some of those special meals and beautiful vacations and that kind of thing. Kate: [00:04:21] So yeah it has its pros and cons but I'm much happier now than than I was. Jillian: [00:04:27] Right. It's like that thing where all of a sudden you take your fate into your own hands. Kate: [00:04:32] Yeah yeah definitely. Jillian: [00:04:35] And I find in certain ways it's scarier. But in other ways it's like I could never go back. Kate: [00:04:41] Right. Well for me, I've always been self-employed so I never worked for one publication. So part of it is very similar. Kate: [00:04:51] You know it's a lot of the same, the same issues of running a business and you know, not necessarily having a steady paycheck and having to wear a lot of different hats so it wasn't maybe quite as scary than somebody who is used to working in like a corporate office job and then leaves that to start their own thing. Helping other bloggers with their businesses Jillian: [00:05:13] Got it, okay now on your blog you do some interesting stuff, so you share about your health and your journey of healing yourself through food. And you also have resources for bloggers who want to start blogs and monetize and stuff like that. So how were you, like how did that come about? Kate: [00:05:31] Yeah so I just started doing that this year because I didn't want to start it you know before I had really figured it out myself. And there's definitely a huge learning curve with monetizing a blog and getting it to a place where you can actually earn a full time income from it. Kate: [00:05:47] Once I felt like I had done that kind of again, you know, I think this is kind of a theme in my life that I learned how to do something. And I think that it's really amazing and could positively impact other people's lives and so that I say I want to help other people do the same thing. Kate: [00:06:03] And so I just sort of started sharing some of my tips and tricks and you know what I've learned throughout the last few years and that kind of thing. So it's fairly new content on the blog. It wasn't something that I did in the beginning but I'm really loving it. Kate: [00:06:21] It's really resonating with a lot of people and I also have started doing one on one coaching, and that's awesome to be able to connect with people in that more intimate capacity and really help them you know target what they're specifically trying to do. Jillian: [00:06:37] So OK so you decide that you're going to start a food blog. And so what was your process? Were you a chef? Did you have any training or were you really just learning learning as you went? Starting a food blog by being a professional food journalist Kate: [00:06:53] I'm not a chef but I was a professional food journalist for eight years before that, so I've spent a lot of time in restaurant kitchens. I've worked with tons of chefs. Kate: [00:07:03] I've done years of research on what makes food delicious and what makes food healthy and and that kind of thing. So you know, it is I guess a little bit more self taught. I didn't go to culinary school. That kind of thing. Kate: [00:07:20] But I didn't feel like I was starting at square one when I started the blog. I already had a very solid background in food. Jillian: [00:07:27] OK. So you would start then creating your own recipes, photographing them, and putting them up. And then when you thought about well I want to make a living off of this, kind of what were you thinking and how did your process go from there? Starting a blog with the intention of it being a successful business Kate: [00:07:44] Well I didn't start the blog and then decide I wanted to make money from it. I started it very much with the intention of this as a business. Kate: [00:07:53] And so it was never something that I just thought, Oh I do this as a hobby or as this is just something I'm passionate about. Of course, I am very passionate about it. But it was very much a business decision. Kate: [00:08:06] So I started you know one of the things I did do in my freelance career is recipe developed for magazines so that was not a new skill for me. That was something I had been doing for many years. Kate: [00:08:20] So there wasn't a learning curve with that. Photography though, there definitely was and I tried doing it myself for a little bit and ultimately decided I'm terrible at this. I hate this, it stresses me out, but I know I need it. Benefits of hiring a professional photographer Kate: [00:08:35] And so I started working with a professional photographer pretty early on and she does all of the photos for Rool + Revel. Jillian: [00:08:43] Wow. Because I was going to say your photos are beautiful. Kate: [00:08:46] Thank you. Yes. I cannot take credit for that. I mean I'm the one making the food and you know it's my hands in the photo and we work together to kind of style and everything. But she 100 percent takes the photos, edits the photos. I would be totally lost. Jillian: [00:09:02] How does that work? You say, OK Mondays we're going to do some recipes, come over? Kate: [00:09:08] Yes, pretty much we meet every other week and we usually knock out like six different shoots in a day. Kate: [00:09:17] Sometimes it's six recipes sometimes it's you know a combination of, we work a lot with brands and so we have some like styled product shots or headshots or you know just depending on what kind of content we're working on. Kate: [00:09:34] We do a bunch of different things and we also do video. So yeah she just comes over every every other week and we just knock it out. Jillian: [00:09:41] How many hours do you guys do it? How long does that take? Kate: [00:09:45] Right now we're usually doing about a half day so probably like four or five hours each time. Kate: [00:09:52] We're also good friends so I'm sure if we work we could get it done faster but we end up talking a lot more which is really nice. But yeah. Kate: [00:10:02] So but it used to be we would meet like once a month and we would do like 20 recipes in a day. And that was like first thing in the morning through you know 9 or 10 at night. It was really long days. Kate: [00:10:16] And then we both were like you know maybe if we split this up and just that more often we could make this a little more doable. Jillian: [00:10:25] So are you super organized? Kate: [00:10:27] Yes yes I'm very OCD. I've always been that way. Jillian: [00:10:34] I'm picturing like, spreadsheets. Are there spreadsheets? Are there you know big shopping days? Kate: [00:10:41] Yes lots of spreadsheets. I am a total spreadsheet nerd. And we have emails going back and forth all the time with our shot list and what we're working on. Kate: [00:10:52] You know I have an editorial calendar that we work on usually two to three months in advance so rarely unless we get behind which sometimes happens but rarely are we like okay this is what's going up on the blog next week. Kate: [00:11:03] It's usually like this is what's going up next month. So we're usually working at least a month in advance. Jillian: [00:11:10] Wow. OK so then you've got your 6. So go back to, this is a business. So you say I need to hire a photographer, you get your photographer and you go. Then what was your next thought? Kate: [00:11:29] You know really, in the beginning it was just like getting as much quality content up on the blog as I could. Kate: [00:11:38] And there are so many hats that you have to wear as a blogger. And I really didn't realize a lot of that until I got into it. You know there's so much behind the scenes stuff that you're constantly working on and everything from social media to SEO. Kate: [00:11:58] And you know just things like coding stuff and making sure you have the right alt text on your photos and you know, networking with other bloggers and working with brands and getting sponsored content deals and that kind of thing. Kate: [00:12:15] So the beginning was mostly just like creating the content. And then after we got like a good library going then I started slowly adding the other aspects to my plate. Jillian: [00:12:28] OK so how did you start monetizing it? How has that changed or has it not changed over time? How to monetize your blog from Day 1 Kate: [00:12:35] I started monetizing from day one. So of course it was much smaller then, but I started just by doing Google Adsense. Jillian: [00:12:45] Got it. Kate: [00:12:46] And so I just had a few ads up on the site and I joined a couple affiliate programs. Amazon was one of the first ones I joined. That was a no brainer. Everybody shops on Amazon. Kate: [00:13:00] So I basically just started with a few affiliate links and ads and you know I'm sure thing in the beginning I was probably making like 20 bucks a month or something like that. Kate: [00:13:09] It was small but it was at least something that felt motivating, like OK if you know if I'm making this much and I only have like 100 readers a month, what if I had 1000 readers a month or 10,000? Kate: [00:13:22] And so it started with that and then I would say maybe about six months or so, I started working with brands doing sponsored content. And so that's changed now, again it's mostly just my rates have changed as we've grown. Kate: [00:13:41] But in the beginning you know I think I've got maybe 100 or 200 dollars for the first post. Jillian: [00:13:47] And do you reach out to these brands? Do they come to you? Were you using one of these intermediary companies. Kate: [00:13:55] Yeah it was a combination. I joined a few of the agencies. So it was like the Sway Group, or gosh, I don't use any of them anymore really but they try to think what the other ones are called, Blog Meets Brand. Kate: [00:14:13] So I joined a few of those Tap Influence I think was one of those, and that was really good in the beginning because they connected you with these brands. You basically just applied to any of the opportunities that you felt like were there. And if you got it you know, great. How to reach out to brands for sponsored posts Kate: [00:14:29] And so that's mostly how I started in the beginning. But the more I grew, and the more sponsored stuff I did with the agencies, the more I started also reaching out to brands myself. Kate: [00:14:41] And so again I created a spreadsheet and basically just made a massive list of all the brands that I already used and loved and would be happy to promote that it was a very natural fit for. Kate: [00:14:55] And then you know spent a couple of days going through all of their websites, getting their contact information, and then pitching them some sponsored content campaigns for Root + Revel. Jillian: [00:15:06] And how did that work out? Did they get back to you? Did they say yes? Kate: [00:15:12] Yeah for the most part I mean it definitely works. It's it's kind of a numbers game and so I recommend casting a wide net. Kate: [00:15:23] I guess in the beginning I mean the great thing I think people are always nervous to do it. And I think freelance writing you know I always had to pitch editors story ideas in order to get work. Kate: [00:15:34] And so I was very used to rejection and to silence not getting a response. But it really taught me like the worst thing that can happen is somebody just says no thanks. Nobody's ever gonna be mad or brood because you pitched them so you really have nothing to lose. Kate: [00:15:51] And so I just started pitching people telling them who I was, what the site was about, you know giving them our media and what we could do for them. And yeah we had a really good success rate. Hiring a brand manager for your blog Kate: [00:16:05] I actually ended up hiring somebody to help me with brand outreach. Pretty early on too and so that was really helpful to have somebody that could kind of serve as a third party. Sometimes it can be awkward kind of pitching yourself. Kate: [00:16:20] And I think it made me look probably more official to have you know a brand manager. Jillian: [00:16:28] So explain. So how did you find this person and what is his or her job? Kate: [00:16:35] Yeah so, the first person I started working with was actually just a friend who had recently had a baby and was on maternity leave and was just looking for some side work to do. Kate: [00:16:47] She had a background in PR so it was a perfect fit. So I just started working with her originally and then as her baby got older and more mobile she didn't have much time. So we parted ways very amicably. Kate: [00:17:06] And then I started looking for more of like an all around assistant, so doing the sponsored content contracts and brand research and outreach and that kind of thing was part of it. But it was just one piece of what I needed help with. Kate: [00:17:24] And so last I think it was last June of 2017, I sent an email out to my list and posted something on social media saying "I'm hiring. Here's what I'm looking for. You know if you are interested apply here send me your resume." and I think I asked a couple specific questions. Kate: [00:17:45] And then I was shocked. I got great response and I think I had like a couple dozen applications and you know weeded through those and then had a few phone interviews and then weeded through some of those. Kate: [00:18:03] I had them do some like skills tests to see how familiar they were with the tasks I needed help with. I really didn't want to have to train somebody you know from scratch I guess, I wanted them to have some some background. Kate: [00:18:17] I ended up deciding on this woman named Sarah. And she's been with me now for almost a year and she saves me every day. I absolutely love her and I think delegating and hiring people to help you is key and growing growing and monetizing your blog quickly. Jillian: [00:18:39] Now is she local or do you do it virtually? Kate: [00:18:41] We actually do it virtually. She does not live in Atlanta, and she actually has lived in like a million different places since we started working together. Kate: [00:18:51] She was originally like in Amsterdam when we started working together but she was from North Carolina and she moved back and she travels all the time, so I think it's a good gig for both of us because she gets the flexibility that she's looking for and I get the help I need. When to hire people for your blog Jillian: [00:19:06] Now how was it for you making the leap to hiring somebody? You know you're just starting out, you're not necessarily making a ton of money. I think that people we hold ourselves back. Jillian: [00:19:20] But you said nope. You know what. This is what I need. It's worth it for me to spend the money to hire somebody. Kate: [00:19:27] Yeah I mean it's definitely a hard decision to make and it will differ for everybody. I think I went back and forth a lot before I did it and said, you know, do you have to spend money to make money or should I wait to spend any money until I'm making money and it is that being irresponsible? Kate: [00:19:46] But ultimately when I really thought about it and I said no this is a business and I would not start any business and expect to not have any investment whether that's in advertising or hiring people or whatever it may be. Most businesses take some some capital to get off the ground. Kate: [00:20:05] And I knew that I also this was what I wanted to do full time, and I wanted it to become my full time income as quickly as possible. And so I think if I was somebody who was doing this as a hobby or just on the side, and I wasn't as eager to get it going than you know hiring somebody early on maybe wouldn't have made sense. Kate: [00:20:28] But for me it ultimately ended up making sense and so I took the risk and hired and I did it for a lot of different areas and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. And that was just you know kind of trial and error. Kate: [00:20:43] And I do have a lot of expenses but ultimately I think it's helped me grow much faster than if I would have tried to do everything myself. Why post your income statements on your blog Jillian: [00:20:52] And so talk about that then, because you can see how you're doing. You're posting your income statements on your blog. Kate: [00:20:59] Yeah yeah that was very scary to deal with but a lot of bloggers that I follow have posted income reports and they've really impacted my career and what I've done and helped me learn and grow and so I thought "No, I think I should do this for other people too," and I know that it was really valuable to me as a reader so I started doing that in January. Kate: [00:21:23] And yeah you can see everything exactly what expenses I have exactly where my revenues coming from and yeah I bear it all. Jillian: [00:21:35] And I have to say I'm very impressed with your growth. Kate: [00:21:39] Thank you. Jillian: [00:21:39] I think there is something about stating this is not a hobby this is my business. Jillian: [00:21:47] That somehow it forces you to make choices like, I need to hire somebody. Like treating it like a business and not like, this is something I do on the side and I'm hoping it turns into a business. Kate: [00:21:59] Yeah I think, you know, some people have success stories doing it that way. Usually it took them you know eight years or something to start making money from their blog and again to each their own. Kate: [00:22:12] You know if you're not trying to do that then that's fine. But yeah I had a very like if I want this to be my business I need to treat it as such. Jillian: [00:22:22] I like that attitude, I feel it's like a little bit like announcing to the universe like "I'm in business!" I'm showing up and I need you to show up. Kate: [00:22:32] Yeah definitely. Hating social media as a food blogger Jillian: [00:22:34] So tell me about then as a food blogger, social media is a big part of it. So what is your experience? OK. Tell me about it. Kate: [00:22:44] I hate social media. I debate all the time about, maybe I'll be one of those bloggers that just doesn't have a social media account and there are not many of them especially food bloggers. Kate: [00:22:58] You know it's interesting because social media can be hugely helpful and growing your blog and monetizing your site and all of that connecting with your readers and that kind of thing. Kate: [00:23:11] But I felt like a lot of what I talk about, you know, it is a food blog but it's also a wellness blog and a lot of what we talk about for health is being mindful and not spending hours a day on your phone and doing things that are good for you and your health and your mind and your body, and I don't believe that social media is one of those things. Kate: [00:23:33] So it feels sometimes like almost hypocritical of me to be on social media a lot and to spend a lot of time there and personally I just hate it. Kate: [00:23:45] I try to spend less than five minutes a day on social media and it's really difficult to do. If you have a blog like you said, especially a food blog. So I've gone through phases I've tried different things. Jillian: [00:24:04] Have you hired hired it out? Kate: [00:24:06] Yes. Yes I have. I've worked with a bunch of different types of firms and people to manage different social media platforms and even the same platforms in different ways. Kate: [00:24:20] Currently right now what I'm doing is my assistant will schedule posts in Tailwind for Instagram, and now Tailwind lets you auto post so you don't have to get the alert that says "Hey it's time to post." You can actually just schedule it to go. Hiring people to help with social media as a blogger Kate: [00:24:37] So she does that and you know I log in every day I check my messages I respond to any comments and then I'm off. I'm not looking at anybody else's stuff. I'm not doing anything else because I just don't care. I just don't want to spend the time on that. Kate: [00:24:54] So that's how we're doing it now for Instagram. Jillian: [00:24:59] For Instagram OK. Yeah. Kate: [00:25:01] But I have worked with several different firms growing my Instagram and some of which did not do any posting, they just did a lot of growth strategies and engagement techniques and things like that for me. Kate: [00:25:14] Some were actually posting on my behalf. I found that really difficult because it was just hard for them to get my voice. So yeah that's very expensive. I mean I used to be spending over a thousand dollars a month on Instagram help. Jillian: [00:25:30] And what do you think that was giving you, was it to grow your followers so that brands would want to work with you? Because Instagram, up until this point has not been a great way to drive traffic. Kate: [00:25:46] Right. Very very true yes. And that's one of the reasons that I stopped working with some of the firms, it was not because they were doing a bad job but because I felt like it wasn't driving traffic and my ultimate goal. Kate: [00:26:00] Really I had this kind of revelation so to speak in February. I went to a blogger conference in California called Shiftcon. And when I was there it just I had this sort of moment where I said you know my goal is not to be an Instagram influencer. That is not what I want for my life. Kate: [00:26:23] I don't feel that that is the best way for me personally to affect change and to impact people's lives. I think that my strong suit is doing more in-depth blog posts, and things where I can really dig into something deeply and I can't do that on Instagram. Kate: [00:26:42] And so I just kind of decided to move the focus back to my blog and my email list where I feel like I have more impact than Instagram. Kate: [00:26:55] But of course there's plenty of influencers on Instagram that have hundreds of thousands of followers and make lots of money and have huge audiences and you know that's great for them, it just wasn't what I wanted. Jillian: [00:27:07] So what other social media platforms are important to you? The importance of Pinterest to drive traffic as a food blogger Kate: [00:27:13] So I say Pinterest, although I really don't think of Pinterest as a social media platform. I think of it more as like a search engine because of the way people use it. But Pinterest is by far outside of Google. My number one traffic driver. Kate: [00:27:30] And so I do put some time and money into Pinterest and I feel like it really pays off. Versus Instagram it's a little less tangible. Jillian: [00:27:41] Okay. And so what kind of time and money are you putting into Pinterest? Kate: [00:27:48] So  in the beginning I ended up hiring a Pinterest firm which is sometimes I'm like, I can't believe these things exist. There's like a whole field of people that make money doing Pinterest for other brands. But there are and they're great. Kate: [00:28:05] And so I worked with one firm for about a year and a half and they just managed my Pinterest entirely. I didn't touch it and they just posted for me and repinned stuff and did my schedule and everything. Jillian: [00:28:19] And would you be giving them the pins? Kate: [00:28:22] They would be pulling the pins themselves from my blog. Jillian: [00:28:25] Wow. Kate: [00:28:26] Yeah. So sometimes I might say like I really want to promote XYZ right now. You know, it's the holidays here are a bunch of holiday posts that I have. Let's promote these. But for the most part they were doing everything. Jillian: [00:28:38] Wow ok. Are you still doing that? Like have somebody doing your Pinterest or a firm? Kate: [00:28:49] No I don't anymore. What I decided to do earlier this year, we had kind of had a plateau where I felt like for a long time, many months we had we had a good amount of traffic coming to the site but it wasn't growing at all. Kate: [00:29:06] And so I thought I need to try something else and so I asked them if we could kind of push pause for a few months and they were great about it and said sure. Kate: [00:29:15] And so I stopped working with them and then I started using this tool called Board Booster. And that has been great. *** Update: Board Booster has recently shut down because they were not an approved Pinterest partner! Kate: [00:29:28] I went from spending like four hundred dollars a month to spending like 40 dollars a month. Board Booster does take a little bit more upfront time because you have to kind of set up all these different campaigns and looping features and I won't get it into all the technical details but once you do it it's very set it and forget it. And it runs on autopilot. Kate: [00:29:51] So that's what I do now and my traffic has increased and is growing since I started doing that, and it's way cheaper so I think I'm going to stick with that for a while. Jillian: [00:30:00] That's terrific. So how then are you monetizing? What are your different streams? What are your income streams as a food blogger? Kate: [00:30:05] Yeah good question. So in 2017, 75% of my income came from sponsored content. I think I have like 50 or 60 thousand dollars that year. Kate: [00:30:21] That was from working with brands and I loved it but I decided in 2018 that I wanted to scale back on how much sponsored content I was doing and try to come up with some more passive income streams. Kate: [00:30:38] And so right now I still do sponsor content, but I've gotten much choosier. I raised my rates, we really only work with brands on a long term basis now instead of one off posts. So that kind of helps streamline the workflow as well. Kate: [00:30:56] And then I have my ad network and affiliates and we've really been focusing a lot on affiliates this year and that's been awesome it's been growing like crazy. Jillian: [00:31:07] And now give me an example of how how you promote affiliate products. How to promote affiliate products as a food blogger Kate: [00:31:19] So for affiliate products I'll use Butcher Box as an example. They are by far my number one affiliate program and they are a meat delivery service and so, really their mission really fits in with Root + Revel. Kate: [00:31:36] You know, we both focus on like organic grass fed hormone and antibiotic free meat. And they deliver it to your door and they are a great affiliate partner to work with because they're always doing new promotions. Kate: [00:31:49] So the way that we've worked with them thus far has been doing a few blog posts, some of which actually are not focus solely on Butcher Box, but they will be like a roundup of organic meat delivery services or something like that. Kate: [00:32:09] And we'll talk about some of our favorites and why we like them. But Butcher Box is just one of them. Jillian: [00:32:15] Will each one be an affiliate link? Kate: [00:32:19] Not always. Most of them are affiliate links but some don't have affiliate programs, but I still like their product so I'll promote it anyway. But yeah I mean it's obviously better for us if they do have an affiliate program. Kate: [00:32:34] So yes we do that, we also have an email list and so we send out emails to them. Usually for Butcher Box, like once a month because they always have a new promotion. Kate: [00:32:44] So we'll send out an email to our lists telling them you know, "Take advantage of this offer. This is a great company. This is why we love them." And yes I'm now making about $2,000 a month just from Butcher Box. Jillian: [00:32:59] That's terrific! When you find that partner that just connects with you and your audience. It's terrific. Kate: [00:33:08] Yeah it really is so nice. I wish I could figure out exactly why Butcher Box specifically is working so well. There's other affiliates that we've promoted just as much that we don't make anywhere near that much with. Kate: [00:33:25] So I don't have it down to a science yet but they really resonates with my audience I guess people really like getting their, you know high quality meat, delivered to their doorstep. Jillian: [00:33:36] Wow that's terrific. OK so what would be the one piece of advice that you wish someone had told you when you were starting out? Advice: Invest in your business as a blogger Kate: [00:33:47] To invest. I know we kind of already talked about that. I don't mean to be a broken record. But to treat your blog like a business and spend, you know, set aside some money to invest in and growing it. And and that you know it will help you grow faster and it will save your sanity because blogging is very overwhelming. Kate: [00:34:09] There's a million things to be doing all the time, and so having some help and just delegating and using experts because you're not going to be good at everything. Like I said, you have to wear so many different hats. I'm terrible at photography and I don't care to learn. So hire it out. Jillian: [00:34:26] I love that piece of advice. You're one of the only people has who has come on the show and has so aggressively said this is a business spend spend money where you need to. Kate: [00:34:40] Yeah that's so interesting. I'm surprised that more people take that approach. But it is hard. I mean you know you have to have the money to spend. Kate: [00:34:47] I wouldn't recommend going into debt necessarily to do it. But I set aside some money that I had saved up and said, This is what I'm going to invest in my business. And it's worked for me. I think it's important to treat it like a business. Jillian: [00:35:05] And what then, is the one tool that you use that you can't live without? Kate: [00:35:11] Oh gosh there's so many. Jillian: [00:35:15] OK. Favorite tools, just a couple. What are your favorite services as a food blogger Kate: [00:35:18] Yeah. Let's see. I definitely I love ConvertKit. That's what I use for my email list and that's super helpful and I feel like my email list has really been beneficial in connecting with my audience more and getting more clients and selling more affiliate products and all that kind of stuff. So I love ConvertKit. Kate: [00:35:43] I love Food Blogger Pro. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Jillian: [00:35:47] Yes. I was on Bjork's podcast. Kate: [00:35:51] You were? OK I'll have to listen to it. I was just on his podcast too. So we'll have to go back and listen to each other's episodes. Jillian: [00:35:58] Totally. Kate: [00:35:59] Yeah I love Bjork. I think he's awesome, so smart and I joined Food Blogger Pro actually before I started Root + Revel, and I basically went through their entire video course, all of their modules before I started, so that I would know what I was doing. Kate: [00:36:16] And so I'm still a member you know, I don't use that nearly as often as I did then, but I love being able to go into the forums when I have a question and you know connecting. Kate: [00:36:30] A lot of the people that I've hired for my business I've found through Food Blogger Pro, so it's been really helpful and putting me in touch with like a Pinterest form or a SEO adviser or something like that. Jillian: [00:36:44] Any other tools? Kate: [00:36:47] I love Tailwnd. That's another scheduler that's helpful for social media. Let's see let's see what other tools I know there's more. Jillian: [00:36:58] That's OK. Kate: [00:36:58] LeadPages. That's another one that I use a lot. Really to do all my pop-ups and email sign ups and opt in offers and that kind of thing, that's super helpful for growing my list. Jillian: [00:37:10] Awesome. OK, so Kate how can people reach out to you? How can they learn about what you're doing, see your income statements and if they have any questions get in touch with you? Kate: [00:37:23] Yeah I would love to hear from your listeners so they can just head over to Root+Revel.com on the home page. There's the tab that says "For Bloggers" so they can go there. Kate: [00:37:35] There's income reports, the one-on-one coaching services. I have some other resources that kind of thing. Kate: [00:37:43] And then you know if they're not interested in blogging and would be looking more at the food and health stuff then there's plenty of that content too. Kate: [00:37:50] And my contact information is on the site. And let's see I'm @RootandRevel on social media, though like I said, I don't really hang out there too much. Jillian: [00:38:03] Well Kate, thank you so much for being on the show. Kate: [00:38:06] Yeah thanks for having me. It was great. Looking for free Instagram followers fast? Jillian: [00:38:08] Are you trying to grow your social media followers and email subscribers? Well if you've got two minutes I've got a product for you. Jillian: [00:38:16] It's MiloTree. MiloTree is a smart pop-up slider that you install on your site and it pops up and asks visitors to follow you on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Pinterest or subscribe to your list. Jillian: [00:38:32] It takes two minutes to install. We offer a WordPress plugin or a simple line of code, and it's Google-friendly on mobile and desktop so we know where your traffic is coming from. Jillian: [00:38:45] We show a Google friendly pop-up on desktop and a smaller Google friendly pop up on mobile. Check it out. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!

As they establish their online business and begin to monetize their website and social channels, many bloggers and influencers opt to join influencer networks— agencies that connect influencers to brands, handling the lion's share of the details so content creators can focus on creating content. Predictably, one of the questions we see most at this stage is: how do I get chosen for campaigns? Obviously the answer will vary depending on the network, the campaign requirements, your niche and the type of content you produce, but there are some common denominators. To help us ferret those out and address other questions we've seen pertaining to finding success with influencer networks, we've turned to Tiffany Romero. For those who have been in this space for some time, the name Tiffany Romero is nearly synonymous with the concept of influencer networking. Tiffany was instrumental in helping bloggers connect with each other and grow their readership during those early stages of blogging— she founded Bloggy Boot Camp and The SITS Girls in 2008, growing it to 90,000 members, prior to being acquired by Sway Group in 2014. She's now the President of Sway Group, one of the most well-known influencer marketing agencies in the country. Tiffany is a well-known voice in the influencer marketing community and we are so excited to have her on the show! Join us as we discuss: where to start with sponsored content and monetizing your blog the social media platform Tiffany recommends new influencers focus on the benefits of joining influencer networks, and what makes an influencer (and their content) stand out the importance of campaign reporting a key element to procuring repeat business the changing landscape of influencer marketing and Tiffany's predictions for 2018 Get your voice set. Know who you are. Be really clear in who you are. -Tiffany Romero How long have you been working in the online world, and who is someone who made a big difference in your business/career? Tell us all about it in Businessese HQ. Resources Sway Facebook group Why Eliminating Net Neutrality Is Bad for Women Worst End of School Year Mom Ever from Jen Hatmaker Thank & Grow Rich: A 30-Day Experiment in Shameless Gratitude and Unabashed Joy by Pam Grout

In 2008, TIFFANY Romero recognized the need for a bloggers social community and created The SITS Girls, now with 90,000 members strong and growing. Tiffany is a savvy marketer with years of experience leveraging the brand/influencer relationship. Tiffany has been partnered with Sway Group since 2011, and joined the executive team in 2014. Having worked with brands such as Pepperidge Farm, Procter & Gamble, Invisalign, Ford Women in Pink and numerous PR firms, Tiffany has a unique perspective and experience regarding the brand/blogger relationship. To learn more, visit www.swaygroup.com Check the infographic show notes, plus her top tips and advice for entrepreneurs and aspiring entrepreneurs at www.TodaysLeadingWomen.com or by clicking here!

How to Connect with Brands and Find Sponsored Content We are back with another episode of the Food Blogger Pro podcast! This week, Bjork interviews the COO of Sway Group, Francesca Banducci, about sponsored content. In today's changing ad landscape (you know, with mobile ad blockers and such), finding alternate ways to monetize your food blog is becoming more and more important. Sponsored content is a really great way to do this. Francesca Banducci is the COO of Sway Group, a rapidly growing company that helps connect bloggers with the brands they want to talk about. In this really insightful interview, Francesca shares: What sponsored content is and why it is becoming so important The different types of ways bloggers can work with brands How even small blogs can be valuable to brands How to open up a conversation with a brand without even contacting them The mistakes bloggers should avoid when trying to find sponsored opportunities What beginner, intermediate, and advanced bloggers should focus on in regards to sponsored content If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com.