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“God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it.” I said that to my dad, Lloyd, as we sat down to record our podcast last week–which turned out to be the opposite of rubbish. We spoke our minds. What it means to live in the gain versus the gap, Lloyd’s honest relationship with pessimism and age, and why we both keep showing up to do this work. Oh, and our latest feelings about the Cubs. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Episode Transcript Noah: God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it. So that’s what we’re going to do today. Lloyd: I will attempt not to be total rubbish. Just partial rubbish. Noah: You don’t want to try to be rubbish — you want to feel okay with being rubbish. Are you okay with being rubbish? Lloyd: It’s difficult to accept. What I really want to be able to say is: today has been a good day. I struggle with that sometimes. Noah: I’m glad to hear that, because you came in an hour ago kind of like me, unsettled. Do you feel grateful today? Lloyd: I do. I feel grateful for having this day. Noah: I just finished listening to this book about gratitude, 30 days, a different angle each day. The one I listened to this morning: be grateful for moments before they happen, not after. Thank the world for this unforeseen, magnificent thing that’s about to happen, even if it seems mundane. So today on my commute, I said: thank you for the magnificent thing that’s going to happen while I’m sending out quotes to customers. Lloyd: I’m grateful to be here with you, passing ideas back and forth, disagreeing, trying to come up with something provocative and useful. Noah: You wanted to talk about why you’re still in the machinery business at 81. Why are you? Lloyd: The question I ask myself every day is: why am I so damn obsessed about age? About being 81. How did I get to live to be 81, and am I still any good at what I’m pretending to do every day? Noah: That’s BS. You’re not pretending anything. Lloyd: There is an aspect of what I’m fighting against: my negativity and pessimism. A leader beset by negativity doesn’t do a good job. I fear my fear about how the business is going to do is self-defeating. Noah: What’s interesting is that business has been so rough for many months, and yet you keep getting right back up. Not complaining. Finding optimism in the next thing. To me, that makes you an amazing optimist. Lloyd: Depends on the day. Every day in business you get hit with problems, with disappointment in others, in yourself. The hard part, and it gets worse as you get older, is staying buoyant. Knowing the next day could be better. Noah: And that’s where the courage to be rubbish comes in. Just push through. Noah: I woke up this morning feeling kind of yucky too. A deal isn’t working, I’m questioning my purpose. But here’s what I do: every night before bed, I write down my wins for the day. 99% of the time, there’s something genuinely positive, a good call with a customer, time with family, learning something new. And every day I write down one serendipitous thing that happened. When you name it, things have more meaning. Lloyd: (on age 81) Some days I think: Lloyd, you’re so fortunate. This is 18 years of gravy after a heart attack, enjoy each day. And other days I think: 81, I’m almost out of days, and that’s depressing precisely because I’m enjoying each one. I don’t want to be out. Noah: That’s living in the gap versus the gain right there. Lloyd: Explain the “Gap in the Gain” concept. Noah: Great book. Highly recommend it. It’s by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. The idea: high achievers set ideals, “I want to be rich, I want to be happy,” and they never feel like they’ve arrived because the ideal keeps moving. That’s living in the gap. But if you actually define what a win looks like and document when you win, you start living in the gain. It totally changes your mindset. It’s why it’s powerful to look back at the end of the day before you sleep, and Sullivan even suggests writing down a win for the next day before it’s happened. Lloyd: Write down what you’ve won when you haven’t experienced it yet? Noah: I know, mysterious. I almost never do it. But it ties back to being grateful in advance. I think it puts you in the right frame of mind. Lloyd: I don’t write it, but I imagine it. And giving thanks usually puts me in the right frame of mind to go to sleep. Lloyd: Let’s talk about why we do these podcasts. Why do I write the blog? Noah: The Graff-Pinkert Times, the granddaddy of Today’s Machining World. Was it ever really about business? Lloyd: Honestly? It was a showcase for my writing. Ego gratification, and to brand the company, give it an image of quality and originality. But the underlying reason was as a showcase for my creativity, using the machinery business as a vehicle. Noah: You have a master’s in journalism from Michigan. You wrote for the Michigan Daily. You did it partly because it’s fun. Lloyd: That’s right. And it still is fun. To create something original that nobody has ever done before, and see it published. It’s still a thrill. Noah: I feel like it fills a hole in me, a sense of purpose. I want it to leave its mark. You want something different: you want somebody to actually reach out and say it affected them. Lloyd: I want the dopamine. But I also believe the things I write have sufficient merit that people should read them and get value. The piece I wrote yesterday about my wife Risa’s headache coaching program, I spent a lot of time on it, felt good about it. Then I looked and there were no comments. Did anybody read this? Did anybody care? Noah: We really need to put likes back on the website. Lloyd: But I do believe that somebody in Arizona is going to read that, or tell someone in Boise about it, and they’re going to say: my mother desperately needs this. Noah: Let’s finish on a high note. We’re both very enthusiastic about the Cubs this year. Cade Horton, the phenom everyone was so high on, got hurt after one game and they announced Tommy John surgery, out for the season. The team had been four and six, tight, underperforming. And then the day they announce the surgery, everybody just comes out loose. They win nine to two, then six to two, sixteen hits in the first game. I believe that was serendipity, a jolt that made people play grateful, play loose. What do you think? Lloyd: Let me tell you my true honest belief about my beloved Chicago Cubs. Noah: Mm-hmm. Lloyd: I believe every day, they will lose. Noah: (laughing) Really. Lloyd: Therefore, every victory is a gift, a wonderful upset. Noah: I think when they win, everything’s right with the world. When they lose, eh, it’s just a game. I’m going to think about something else. I think you’re messing around here. Lloyd: I’m telling you the truth. Noah: I think this podcast itself was a little serendipitous. We always say we’re going to do more episodes together. We only end up doing one or two a year. Today I didn’t have anyone else to interview. And we both started out kind of eh, and I think we’re ready to go kick some butt. Lloyd: Let’s do it. Question: What’s your move when you wake up feeling rubbish?

On today’s podcast, I'm talking with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, to peek inside the mind of a prolific acquirer of manufacturing companies. Before purchasing Hill in 2018, Mike spent 20 years in M&A, orchestrating over 100 deals across nearly every industry. Since then, Mike has acquired four machine shops, and he’s constantly scouting for more opportunities to expand. What struck me about Mike isn’t just his deal-making successes – it’s his genuine passion for manufacturing. While some people get caught up in the game of acquisition deals, Mike seems to remain committed to his stated purpose, making quality parts and building lasting companies. *********** Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.      View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Main Points Working in the M&A Industry Mike Payne’s career began in the mid-1990s when he graduated from the University of Tulsa with a computer science degree. He started a software company specializing in shop floor data collection, working with manufacturers during the era when Walmart was pushing barcode implementation. This early exposure to manufacturing sparked his interest in seeing how things were made, from tires to fishing reels. After successfully growing and selling his software company in 2003, Payne transitioned into private equity, where he spent 15 years buying companies across various industries. What set him apart in the M&A space was his approach: rather than just completing deals and moving on, he would typically take board positions or operational roles in the acquired companies to ensure their success. He completed over 100 deals during this period, attributing some of his success to being an outsider who asked “dumb questions” that often led to valuable insights. Purchasing Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication In 2018, Payne purchased Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication, a company he’d known for 30 years. The company, established in 1976, had become “tired” under an owner looking to sell, with minimal reinvestment in equipment and growth. Payne saw this as an opportunity to revitalize a solid business. Since his acquisition, the company has doubled in size through both organic growth and the acquisition of four additional shops. What distinguishes Payne’s approach to business is his complex motivation. While he openly acknowledges his desire to make money (“I’m a capitalist”), he emphasizes that his greater satisfaction comes from creating opportunities for others. At 51, he could coast or even retire, but he continues growing his business because he enjoys developing his team and seeing them succeed. He shares examples like watching a 27-year-old manager building his first home and starting a family. Payne also maintains strong relationships with the previous owners of companies he’s acquired. He shared a story about receiving a photo from a couple whose shop he bought in 2022. While he was at IMTS viewing the latest manufacturing technology, they sent him a picture from their retirement travels of an old lathe in an Arizona campground. This exemplified his goal of not just making profitable deals, but helping owners successfully transition into their next life phase. Philosophy of Business Growth The conversation also touched on the philosophy of business growth. While Payne acknowledges that maintaining a steady, non-growing business can be viable, he believes companies need to at least stay current with technology and market demands to avoid slow decline. He shared an example of a recent acquisition target that had gradually declined from $2 million to $1.2 million in annual revenue because they weren’t reinvesting or replacing lost customers. Throughout the interview, Payne’s enthusiasm for manufacturing shines through. He describes the satisfaction of seeing raw materials transformed into finished products and particularly enjoys giving shop tours to people unfamiliar with manufacturing, as their fascination helps him see the magic of manufacturing through fresh eyes. He compared this to hiking with his daughter, who helps him notice beautiful details he might otherwise miss in his rush to reach the destination. The discussion reveals Payne as someone who has successfully merged the analytical skills of a private equity investor with a genuine passion for manufacturing and people development, creating a business approach that values both profitability and purpose. Questions: If you were to acquire a manufacturing company, what would you be looking for? What would it take for you to sell your manufacturing company? Check out Mike Payne’s  podcast, Buy the Numbers. The blog was assisted by Claud.ai

I often ponder—why do some people own and build companies, while most people are destined to spend their careers as employees. In Part II of my interview with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing & Fabrication, we explore this question. Mike comes from a family of six generations of teachers, not business managers or entrepreneurs, and he says he was a “mess” in high school without direction. There's no question that he's smart and ambitious, but there are lots of people out there with those qualities, and only a small handful of them acquire and grow manufacturing companies. I enjoyed pushing Mike to analyze how and why he does what he does, and I think he enjoyed being pushed. Spoiler alert, it goes a lot deeper than just making a bunch of money and being your own boss. *********** Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.      View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Do the Richest People Work Less? Noah Graff: Many people in the world work incredibly hard, but the richest people aren’t necessarily the ones working the hardest. What is it about entrepreneurs and successful company owners who can replace themselves that makes them different? Mike Payne: I’ll start with a slight disagreement. You said the richest people don’t work the hardest. I don’t totally disagree, but let me use one example that challenges that—Elon Musk. He’s the richest person in the world, and I’d venture to say he works harder than anybody. Noah: A lot of the richest people don’t work as hard as somebody in India digging a ditch, or somebody working three jobs. It depends what you mean by work. Mike: As a society, we think this way. My own team sees me drive a nice truck and go on trips, and they think, “I’m working harder than he is.” In many ways, they are—physically for sure. This is true of most successful people. And I want to distinguish between business owners and successful business owners, because there are many business owners in the world. If I put myself in the category of someone who works hard and is “successful,” I still get up and go to work every day. But my favorite line, which I read a couple years ago, is perfect here: “The best thing about owning your own company is you get to choose which 80 hours a week you work.” I’m not stuck on someone else’s schedule. I get to do it whenever I want, but I have to do it. Why Mike is a Company Owner Noah: Let’s go back to the hardest question—why are there certain people like you who just naturally take charge? Mike: I have a sense of purpose that’s bigger than me. When we talked about creating opportunities for my people, that’s my purpose. Yes, I want to buy companies, make money, do good deals, but a lot of that purpose is to create opportunities for other people. Your purpose could be a lot of things, but with a purpose, you automatically do more. You’ve got to care about something. I can see it with everybody we hire in the shop. If they have a purpose in their life, they’re a better employee than the ones who see it just as a means to get a paycheck on Friday. Noah: Do you think your parents did something to make you have this mentality? Mike: No, I can’t point to that. My dad’s side of the family is six generations of educators. Mom’s side was farmers, blue-collar labor workers. I didn’t have that “I’m gonna follow in the footsteps” thing at all. But in all honesty, I don’t know that I can even really take credit for it. All I ever did was just work. I work hard. I’m not the smartest person in the world, I’m definitely not the best looking, but I do work hard and I always worked hard. When I got myself in binds, financially or otherwise, the only thing I ever knew to do was work harder. How his Wife Changed Mike’s Life Noah: Can you recall a big serendipitous moment in your life? Mike: My wife and I went to the same high school. I was two years older. We both went to the University of Tulsa. We knew each other, had mutual friend circles, but weren’t close. I was a mess in high school. I didn’t have a lot of direction in life. When I think about me then versus me now, I’m like, how does that journey even add up? How does that guy become this guy? I was finishing my sophomore year of college, she’s coming in as a freshman. I see her at the bar and say, “Hey, I know you, we went to high school together.” It takes me like two months to convince her to go on a date with me because she’s so well-grounded that all she knew was the me from high school. She’s like, “I’m not dating that guy. He’s a mess.” From that point forward, I had to prove myself. I had to convince this woman that I had changed and that I had purpose in life. Quite honestly, I would still tell you today that I out-kicked my coverage. Question: Why do you own your company, or why would you want to own a company?

Today’s AI conversation is about vulnerability—not automation, efficiency, and replacing jobs. Brooks Canavesi, co-founder of Baryons, is taking AI somewhere different. He’s not trying to replace the human. He’s trying to make the human better. I’ve actually been using ChatGPT to supplement my own life coach for a while now, so when I learned what Baryons is building, I had to find out more. The company calls it a Flourishing Partner. It’s an AI platform that checks in with you on your phone, holds you accountable, and actually pushes back when you need it. The goal? Help people flourish. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Brooks has been in technology for a long time. His team built systems for DARPA, the Department of Defense, Mary Kay Cosmetics, and AccuWeather before landing in the AI space. They were working in machine learning before most people knew what it was. But Brooks is honest about the fact that ChatGPT was a reset for everyone, including them. What he and his team decided to do with that moment is what makes this conversation interesting. While the big frontier labs like OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic raced toward general intelligence, Brooks wanted to build something more specific. Something more human-focused. “We wanted to focus on increasing human agency. Not taking jobs away, but working with humans to improve their overall abilities.” Baryons’ product is voice-based. You call in, talk to your AI Mentor for a few minutes, set your intention for the day, and check back in at the end of your shift. It listens. It remembers. And unlike most AI tools, it’s designed to challenge you, not just tell you what you want to hear. That last part matters more than it sounds. Brooks explained that a lot of therapists are seeing clients come in with damage done by AI tools in between sessions. LLMs such as ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini can be sycophantic. They agree too easily. They reinforce patterns instead of breaking them. Baryons is built to interrupt that. For businesses, the product goes even deeper. When you have a whole team using it, Baryons anonymizes the signals and surfaces patterns for leadership. If eight out of ten people on the manufacturing floor are mentioning the same supply chain problem, management hears about it without anyone being called out. It’s a way to give employees a voice and give leadership information they’d never otherwise get, especially in a remote or distributed workforce. Brooks told me that people who use Baryons regularly start to change in ways others can notice, including him. “I hear from people I haven’t seen in six months. They say ‘something’s different about you. And it’s a good thing.'” I pushed Brooks to explain what separates Baryons from how I’m using ChatGPT Plus, which has persistent memory built in and could read my voice inflection (though I haven’t used that setting yet). He said there are overlaps, but it’s different when you call Baryons on the phone to check in because the exchange feels even more like talking to a person. The sycophancy is also a huge difference. I asked him to explain why Baryons is different. He said it comes down to what they call the Understanding Engine. It's a patented technology that analyzes how you speak, the words you use, your tone, and up to 26 dimensions of how you think. It’s designed to build a picture of you the way a person would, organically through conversation, and use that to respond in the way that actually serves you. It doesn't just reply in a way that feels good in the moment. I like to think I want to be challenged, but I confess that when ChatGPT asks me sensitive questions like a mentor might, sometimes it can really cut. I’ve lashed out at it, saying “you don’t understand me!” I’ll type swear words at it. Sometimes it really doesn’t get me. But unfortunately it’s also right sometimes about things I don’t want to hear (in my case, read on a screen). I am slightly nervous about how it will feel. But I’m going to try Baryons. The image of myself interacting in an oral conversation with an AI agent on my phone makes me uncomfortable. I think before long it’s going to sort of feel like I’m talking to a real person. Thinking about this makes me feel ummmm…what’s another word for uncomfortable. I guess I’ll ask Claude for a suggestion. From Claude: For that last word — you’re describing the feeling of unexpected intimacy with a machine. A few options: Vulnerable — probably the most honest and resonant Exposed — similar but slightly more raw Uneasy — softer, more ambiguous Strange — simple, unpretentious, very you I’d go with vulnerable. It’s honest, it fits the personal development theme of the whole piece, and it’ll resonate with readers who feel the same way about the idea. Question: Could you ever see yourself working with an AI Mentor?

Seems like right now every podcast is doing an interview centered around artificial intelligence. But I waited until I found the right story, one that was truly relevant to our audience in the machining world. Today’s guest on the podcast, George Konidaris, is the cofounder of the startup, Realtime Robotics. He is also a professor of Computer Science and the director of the Intelligent Robot Lab at Brown University. Right now, programming a robot arm to perform a repetitive task typically requires a robot integrator to program where every joint of a robot should go. It's a ridiculous and tedious process. But with Realtime Robotics' AI technology, you can instruct a robot to do a task and you don't have to tell it a zillion steps explaining HOW to do the task. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Interview Highlights Noah Graff: Explain your company, Realtime Robotics. George Konidaris: Realtime Robotics is a company that does real-time robot motion planning. We focus on how a robot can automatically generate its own motion. Typically a robot integrator programs every aspect of a robot’s motion in order to accomplish a repetitive task. This means deciding where every joint of a robot arm should go. With our system, you can tell the robot where it needs to put its business end. This is where I would like you to weld, or I would like you to pick up the object over there. We compute the rest of the motion for you. Graff: How do you control the robots? Konidaris: The majority of our installations are programmed using a PLC. It used to be that you would have to set every joint on the robot to a specific value. Now instead, you can send much higher level commands to the PLC. Graff: So it takes less training than using a typical robot controller? It takes less training and less effort. We can reduce PLC programs that are often hundreds of statements long to single digit statements in many cases. You get out better efficiency, and we make sure there are no collisions. You don’t have to run what you’ve programmed and eyeball it to make sure it doesn’t collide. Graff: This can integrate with all different brands? Konidaris: Yes, we think of robot arms the way most people think of printers, which is that they’re all peripherals. Our job is to provide drivers for those peripherals. To you, they should look just the same because they have similar functionality. You don’t have to go learn the programming language associated with one robot brand. You just plug it in. Graff: It sounds a little like ChatGPT in that it does a lot of the tedious work for you. Konidaris:  I think the analogy is very apt. One way that I would think about the difference though is that ChatGPT is a top down of intelligence to start with language, which is very high level, and symbolic and abstract. But what’s interesting about robots and what’s interesting specifically about robots and AI is that is not yet where the challenges are. The challenges are much lower level. Just moving through space, just doing perception, just generating motion. We’ve automated so much stuff because we’ve had to deal with the fact that robots are so physically stupid. Graff: It seems like this technology might take away value from cobots a little bit. Konidaris: One way to think about cobots is they have two distinguishing features. One is that they’re very easy for a person to program by manipulating the robot. The other one is that cobots are safe to have around people. One way to think about how that’s been done is they’re light and weak and compliant. By “weak” I mean it’s not going to knock your head off if it hits you. (Cobots) are not as fast, they’re not as precise. In many industries where you really need throughput, you can’t apply a cobot because it just doesn’t have the performance that you need. What we’re hoping to do is to substitute a different technical solution. The robot is not going to hit stuff because it knows how to not hit stuff. Graff: These robots, even with their intelligence, still require a professional integrator? Konidaris: (Yes), the integrator is doing a couple things. They're designing your work cell for a performance characteristic or a meter specification. That's a mechanical engineering skill that requires a professional. Also, they’re choosing components like the end of arm toolkit, the particular conveyor belt, and the PLC. They are integrating those into the work cell and writing the logic that controls them. But then the third thing that (integrators) often have to do is spend a lot of time hand designing the robot motion. In particular, if there are multiple robots in the work cell, they need to try and coordinate the multi-robot motion ahead of time so that nothing ever collides. And that’s where the real talent comes. We’ve looked at use cases where it takes 13 weeks of engineering just to get the multi-robot coordination right. We can drop it to one (week) because in our case, that last part, you just plug the robots into the same box and they never hit each other. Graff: Mostly your product is used in automotive plants? Konidaris: Yes, that’s right. They have severe throughput constraints. In many cases, the cost of a single robot isn’t anywhere near the cost of extra cycle time, so they’re happy to pay to add extra robots. I think a typical statistic we saw is adding a single robot only gets you an extra 25% of throughput speed up—as opposed to the 100% theoretical, which no one ever gets. But with our system you can see more like 75%. So you can get much more of the win using the extra robot because they can pass pretty close to each other and they’re mutually cognizant of that. Question: How have you used robots in your machine shop? Or, how would you like to use them?

The most interesting things I’ve ever done — the best conversations, the best podcasts, the best calls — they all required me to be confident enough to move forward, when the results were far from certain. Today I’m going to tell you something I just learned that can get that confidence up when you need it most. (Blog continues below video) Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! I’ve been selling used machine tools for 15 years in my family’s 80-year-old business. I still get anxious when strangers ask me what I do. Most people don’t know what a machine tool is, let alone a screw machine. Honestly, there are probably moments where I feel insecure about working with my dad. Several years ago, I started using what I call serendipity hooks when I introduce myself — loading my intro with enough different things that something will connect. I’ll say: “I sell used machine tools, but I also host a podcast, and I’m building a YouTube channel about serendipity, which doesn’t leave me much time, because I’ve also got a 4-year-old son who’s amazing.” Something in that list usually lands. But even with that trick, it really bothers me that the first thing on the list, selling machinery, the way I pay my mortgage, my family’s legacy, still doesn’t always come out confidently. And I think a lot of you know this feeling. Maybe you work in a machine shop and other people don’t get it right away when you tell them you’re a setup person or a machinist. You consider yourself a confident person. But that one simple question, “what do you do?” still trips you up. Two weeks ago at the Precision Machined Products Association Management Update conference, the first speaker is a guy named Ryan Avery. His talk is supposed to be about leadership, a topic I know is a weakness of mine, so I’m intrigued, if also a little daunted. Ryan grabs everyone from the get-go. He comes off the stage, walks right into the audience, and tells us we’re going to do an exercise about confidence and he needs a volunteer. I figure, if there’s ever a moment to work on my confidence, this is it. I raise my hand. Suddenly I’m up on stage. The exercise is simple. Ryan asks me to introduce myself to the audience twice. First while stepping backwards. Then while stepping forwards. Now, the PMPA conference is probably the easiest room in the world for me to do this. These are my people. But I want to make it a real test, so I decide to include the serendipity channel in my intro, something many of them might find strange, but hopefully intriguing. First try, stepping back: “Hi, I’m Noah Graff, I sell used machine tools, I host a podcast, and something about serendipity…” The words are fine. The delivery is so so. I know I can do better. Second try, I step forward. “My name is Noah. I sell used machine tools. And I’m passionate about serendipity.” They’re the same words, more or less. But stepping forward flips something in my brain. There’s actually research behind this. Psychologists call it embodied cognition. When you physically move toward something, it activates what they call an “approach mindset.” Your body tells your brain: we’re going in and you can do it. It reminds me of learning to play tennis. Stepping into the ball, not hitting off your back foot–It doesn’t just work mechanically. I think about my favorite shot, 2-handed backhand down the line, moving into the ball with authority. It just feels perfect. The rest of the conference, people keep coming up to me. Other attendees, even some of the other presenters wanting to talk. We end up having some good conversations about AI tools, hiring, all kinds of things. Of course, I still have many flashes of insecurity throughout the weekend. That night I go salsa dancing in Charlotte. There are some decent dancers, but nothing I haven’t seen before. I’ve been dancing even longer than I’ve been selling machines. I’ve shaken it all over the world while doing business. Tokyo, Krakow, Rio, Grand Rapids. I’m confident and it’s an adventure. With dancing it’s hard to know how things are going to go. The experience of dancing with one person can give me such a high. It can be so fun. Then I dance with the next person, who looked like they would be a good dancer, but they give me bad vibes. They don’t smile, we’re not in sync, I start worrying that they’re bored. I can’t wait for that song to end. It’s the same that night in Charlotte as it was in Barcelona and Berlin and Bangkok. But the uncertainty is worth it–dancing with someone new, calling a customer you don’t know, sharing a new idea with a room full of people. You step forward anyway. Because certainty and confidence are not the same thing. Question: Does it ever make you anxious when someone asks what you do for a living? Why?

Federico Veneziano didn't just buy the machine shop he worked for — he became the sole owner of a 70-year-old company and then changed its name, culture, and direction. When Federico bought American Micro three years ago, there were over 25 shareholders. Now there’s one. The company had 86 employees. Now it’s 130. And the name? Gone. It’s BoldX Industries now. This is part two of our interview. In part one, we covered his journey from Italy to DMG to American Micro to ownership. This episode is about Federico’s rebirth. His vision. A culture shift. Products with purpose, like handcuffs that can’t be picked and ladders that save lives. Expansion plans. A book trilogy. A new baby. What can I say? Federico is bold. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Interview Highlights 25 Owners to One Federico says he always knew he wanted to own a company. His grandfather ran a logistics company. His father was an architect with his own firm. He grew up around entrepreneurs. American Micro was founded in 1957. By the time Federico bought it, the founder’s six children had become over 25 shareholders across multiple generations. Only four or five were active in the business. No succession plan. In 2023, after several attempts to purchase the company over the years, Federico finally bought full ownership of American Micro. Then he changed the name. Why rename a company with nearly 70 years of history? Federico wanted a fresh start. He wanted something that represented who he is. Handcuffs and Ladders Federico grew up loving machining. But today, he’s moving toward value-added products that BoldX designs and builds from start to finish. One example is handcuffs. The current design used by law enforcement is over 100 years old. It can be shimmed or picked. BoldX owns a new design that eliminates those vulnerabilities. Another product the company produces is a smart ladder for commercial construction, designed to reduce accidents so workers go home to their families. Federico says these products have changed the culture at BoldX. They give employees purpose beyond a paycheck. They’re building things that matter. Integration Over Work/Life Balance Honestly, I get overwhelmed just talking to Federico about all the things he’s up to. He’s running a 130-person company, writing books, starting a publishing company, expanding to multiple states, had a new baby 16 months ago, which he called the happiest moment of his life. But when we talked, he seemed calm about it. Lately I’ve been reading about essentialism, the idea that you have to make hard choices to focus on fewer things that matter most in your life. It seems like Federico continues to add opportunities to his plate because he sees so many interesting ones, which he believes can fit together into an ecosystem. He says he doesn’t believe in separating work and life into silos. The idea is that if his family shares the vision, if the team is aligned, it all moves together. I admire Federico’s incredible ambition and achievements, but I'm awed by his passion for life he exudes.

At 12, he was cutting metal in northern Italy. By 21, he was teaching DMG’s own technicians how to use their machines. At 47, he owns the whole company he first walked into just to set up a machine. Federico Veneziano is the owner of BoldX Industries and an old friend of mine. His story requires two episodes. This is part one: the serendipity, the winding path through shops and countries and setbacks. Part two, we will get into what he’s building now. But first, this is how he got here. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Interview Highlights Teaching the Experts Federico grew up about 60 miles northwest of Milan in a small town called Omegna. He started working in a machine shop at 12 years old. By his early twenties, he had developed deep expertise on Siemens controls, particularly the 840D. When DMG sent technicians to train him on a new machine, they were still new on the control themselves. He ended up helping them. That information got back to DMG headquarters, and they offered him a job. He traveled the world servicing CNC machines. Eventually he proposed an ambitious plan: working three years in the U.S., two years in Germany, three years in China. They agreed. He arrived in the US on August 4, 2004. His English wasn’t great, nobody had booked him a hotel, and he didn’t have a credit card. The first day was rough but he figured it out. The Job That Changed Everything One of Federico's first projects was at American Micro in Batavia, Ohio. The company had been founded in 1957 by a Swiss immigrant. He spent a year there setting up a GMC 35, then Gildemeister's CNC multi-spindle, for a fuel connector job that required gun drilling on a multi-spindle. It had never been done before. The project required developing new spindles and tooling just to make the part work. During that year, he built relationships with the team. When things went wrong with DMG around Christmas 2005, he walked away. He had no plan. It was ten days before the holiday. Then American Micro called. He joined as a process engineer and spent the next two decades working through every department: quality, supply chain, sales, engineering. He became close with the owners, particularly René, one of the founding family’s sons. He bought in as a minority owner, eventually reaching about 14%. He kept that ownership quiet for years. Most people at the company didn’t even know. From Rock Bottom to Owner Then everything hit at once. René passed away. Federico’s father passed within a couple of months. Personal problems piled on. By his own words, it was rock bottom. American Micro was second-generation family owned with no clear succession plan. Federico had tried to buy the company twice before. This time, he decided it was now or never. How does someone go from 14% to sole owner of a company doing $20-25 million in revenue? Federico says it was an amicable transaction where he leveraged multiple things he’d built over the years. He doesn’t go into every detail. But somehow the deal got done. In part two, we’ll get into what he’s building now. BoldX Industries has 125 employees, and Federico says they’re forecasting significant growth. He’s also got a book trilogy coming out. But that’s the next chapter. This one is about how he got here. Question: What twist of fate brought you to your current career?

What happens when a mechanical engineering instructor actually comes from industry—not academia? My guest on today’s podcast is Andrew Schiller from Utah Tech, who spent six years at Caterpillar and GE, and studied theology at seminary, before landing in the classroom. He’s teaching students to think like business owners—understanding costs, not just making parts. But more than that, his students aren’t just learning to push buttons, they’re falling in love with creating things that actually matter. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Andrew’s Story Andrew’s path to teaching wasn’t planned. He grew up around his dad’s model-making shop in Chicago, spending countless hours around mills and lathes. “He’s a professional model maker and has a shop,” Andrew told me, describing how that hands-on foundation shaped his interest in making things. After studying mechanical engineering at Valparaiso University, he spent six years at Caterpillar managing technical relationships with suppliers making starters and alternators. He visited manufacturing facilities, did failure analysis, and worked with product groups across the company. Then life took an unexpected turn. “We went to Louisville, Kentucky. I started studying for a master’s degree in theology and worldview,” Andrew explained. While studying Greek and theology at seminary, he worked at GE Appliances on their FirstBuild team, designing products like the Forge Clear Ice Maker. He was juggling full-time graduate studies, 20-25 hours of work, and renovating a house. It was a pace that proved unsustainable with a young family. The path to teaching at Utah Tech happened through pure serendipity. “I literally typed in engineering jobs in St. George, Utah,” Andrew said about a random search while planning a Zion National Park vacation. “The very first thing that came up was the description of the job that I do now.” What He Teaches His modern machining course teaches students to understand manufacturing from a business perspective. “We’re going to teach about machining processes, not as a craft project that you could do in your garage, but as if you were running a business with a bunch of people and had to make money with a very expensive asset that’s a machine.” “I really realized there is a huge need in the industry for a different kind of education about machining. It’s not a crash course for machinists. It’s a science and business course for engineers.” The program operates on a shoestring budget. Andrew has $160 per student for the entire semester. But that constraint hasn’t stopped him from creating something unique. Students learn hands-on machining while thinking strategically about the business implications of their decisions. “I love having new conversations with people in the industry. It’s how I learn. It’s how I keep our curriculum relevant,” Andrew said. He stays connected to real manufacturing needs by constantly talking with industry professionals. His Purpose Andrew discovered something companies have been telling him consistently: “We need people who they’re not just bodies, but they’re passionate about this industry.” Traditional engineering programs weren’t addressing this gap. His goal goes beyond teaching technical skills. As Andrew puts it, he’s passionate about machining and thinks “it’s cool,” but what really drives him is inspiring that same enthusiasm in students. The companies he talks with are “very excited” about what Utah Tech is doing differently. At 35, with three kids and working 60-65 hours a week, Andrew has found his calling in bridging the gap between academic theory and manufacturing reality. He’s not just producing more engineers. He’s creating people who genuinely care about the industry and understand what it takes to succeed in it. Question: Who was one of your best teachers? Why?

Is an Acme-Gridley the mink coat of machine tools? A well made product that still does a great job, but nobody wants another one. In 2025? No. Not yet. On today's podcast, Lloyd and I talk about our used machinery business over the last year. We saw one customer drop 20 million for five INDEXs to replace every cam screw machine in their shop. At the same time we sold machines to a multinational automotive supplier who is buying hundreds of Davenport screw machines—many older than me—I'm 45 by the way. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Mink Coat Discovery This Thanksgiving, while going through my mother’s closet, my dad found her 40-year-old mink coat in perfect condition. Once worth $10,000, ChatGPT now values it at maybe $250 to a dealer. The discovery sparked an uncomfortable comparison to the cam screw machines in our stock. “Of course, mink means Acmes to me because Acmes helped pay for the mink,” Lloyd reflects. “These are very functional, valuable machines that were running good parts where we bought them and we feel they have value, however… we have to doubt ourselves.” He poses the question that haunts our business: “Let’s say it is 1-5/8” RB-8 Acme. How much money could somebody potentially make on that machine over the course of one year?” He figures $25,000 to $50,000, maybe more with the right job. “We would sell that machine in that price range. Yet we find no buyers. From an economic standpoint, to me that makes no sense.” A Brutal Year The machinery dealing business has been tough this year. While many of our customers’ businesses remained steady, indecision paralyzed buying decisions—particularly around tariffs. “One of the polls I did on LinkedIn asked if indecision because of tariffs caused them to not buy equipment this year.” Fifty percent said that was one reason why they had not bought equipment. And I will never forget this year's deal from hell. ”We bought a machine in Germany, sold it to a company in the United States, and then BOOM—tariff. We went from an amazing deal to… I’m amazed we didn’t lose money.” I hate tariffs for a lot of reasons. This one was extra personal. The $20 Million Paradox The market presents striking contradictions. One of our customers recently got rid of 30 cam screw machines, selling them for “$2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a piece,” then spent over $3 million each on INDEX CNC multi-spindles—$20 million total to replace their entire shop floor. “I was shocked,” Lloyd admits. “The question was, are they that much better than a 1” Acme?” I explain the economics: “They make an entirely different kind of part. They make a part that you could make a dollar from where you make 10 cents from an Acme part. Or they’re making $10 on that part, and on the Acme, they were making a quarter.” The new machines can handle medical parts, complex geometries—the kinds of high-margin work that justifies the investment. The Davenport Bet Meanwhile, another customer is betting the opposite way, buying hundreds of Davenports for facilities in Mexico and China. Today's Davenports have a similar design to their original one from 115 years ago. The company is buying so many they’ve ordered Davenport’s entire production capacity for new machines while simultaneously buying used ones. Good ones, bad ones, anything they can find to rebuild. “There are many uses for small parts as bushings or as inserts or pins,” Lloyd explains. “And if you’re catering to a world market… they’re saying to themselves, we want to tremendously expand our capacity because we believe there is a market there and people have abandoned this market.” The China Question Lloyd sees a broader pattern: “The Chinese appear to be able to make good product, not maybe the quality of product being made in the United States or in Europe, but close to it at a fraction of the price.” He worries about Chinese companies producing chips “90 to 95% as good” as NVIDIA’s but selling for 30% less. “They’re able to make an electric car now in China and sell it in the Chinese market for under $10,000, and they’re selling them now in Germany for as low as $16,000.” “In my mind, we’re in a war with China—an economic war.” Gratitude We end where we began—with gratitude. “I get the privilege of working with you,” Lloyd tells me. And I tell him that I have a gratitude list every day in the morning, and he's on it. Readers, listeners out there—In an industry facing profound disruption, all I can say is adapt, keep picking up the phone and stay grateful. Even if you’re selling machines that might be the mink coats of manufacturing. Question: What machines did you purchase or get rid of in 2025?

Today I’m talking to a guy who believes every company needs to be built to last—not just to flip. Neil Lansing is a turnaround specialist who left private equity to bet his own money on small, underperforming businesses. He’s taken companies from 18 employees to over 400. From $2 million to $40-50 million in revenue. And when everyone else was laying people off in 2008, he told his refrigeration company’s team: “We need more clients.” After transforming mom-and-pop service companies one after another, he found his final stop, Piedmont Machine & Manufacturing. At 67, he’s not looking for the next flip. He’s building something that will outlast him. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Journey from Satellites to Shop Floors Neil started as a satellite engineer at Hughes Aircraft, became a CFO of a publicly traded pharmaceutical company, then worked in private equity doing turnarounds and startups. But eventually he walked away from working with other people’s money to bet his own cash on small businesses. It wasn’t an easy mental shift. As he told me: “I remember the first time I did something. I was sitting there and I remember, now I’m not in corporate America, I’m not in these nice New York digs… I’m in some place where it’s like, my God, what did I get myself into?” But then he told himself: “Quit crying, figure it out, make it work.” The Five-Person Rule One of Neil’s key insights is his management structure. Nobody has more than five direct reports. Not supervisors, not managers, not even Neil as owner. This tight span of control is how he grew his refrigeration company from 10-18 people to over 400 in six years while maintaining quality and accountability. “Everyone has to do what we’re supposed to do,” he explains. “If we all do what we’re supposed to do and take the accountability of what we’re supposed to do, then it can work.” Growing When Others Retreat The 2008 financial crisis tested every business owner, but Neil’s response was counterintuitive. While the country was laying off 700,000 people a month, he gathered his top 10 guys and said: “We’ve just got to get more clients.” By Christmas, they were bringing in all new work. Then their existing clients–Target, Publix, Costco – suddenly needed massive expansions. Neil went from laying off 40-50 people to desperately hiring them back plus another 40-50 more. Why Manufacturing, Why Now After several successful turnarounds, Neil decided manufacturing would be his next chapter. He bought Piedmont Machine in Concord, North Carolina, seeing opportunity where others saw decline. The company does Swiss machining for smaller diameter work and can handle parts up to 30 inches in diameter—from roller bearing components for landing gear to automated door systems. He envisions growing his company to 80-100 employees, consolidating into a new 60-75,000 square foot facility, and implementing comprehensive training programs. The Grinder’s Legacy Neil calls himself a “grinder” – someone focused on day-to-day execution rather than just deal-making. His philosophy centers on personal responsibility: “If I don’t do what I’m supposed to do, then I can’t pay these people. And if I can’t pay these people, that means that we did it wrong.” What drives someone to keep grinding at 67? Neil says it's about legacy, not money. “Everything I’ve done, it still works. It still runs. If I do something and it goes under or it stops being in existence, then I feel like that’s not a good legacy. That means I didn’t do it right.” Neil doesn’t know how to run a machine and doesn’t want to. He knows how to run a business with clear strategy, deep understanding of people, and balls, and he's still betting big because that’s what real builders do.

Is an Acme-Gridley the mink coat of machine tools? A well made product that still does a great job, but nobody wants another one. In 2025? No. Not yet. On today's podcast, Lloyd and I talk about our used machinery business over the last year. We saw one customer drop 20 million for five INDEXs to replace every cam screw machine in their shop. At the same time we sold machines to a multinational automotive supplier who is buying hundreds of Davenport screw machines—many older than me—I'm 45 by the way. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Mink Coat Discovery This Thanksgiving, while going through my mother’s closet, my dad found her 40-year-old mink coat in perfect condition. Once worth $10,000, ChatGPT now values it at maybe $250 to a dealer. The discovery sparked an uncomfortable comparison to the cam screw machines in our stock. “Of course, mink means Acmes to me because Acmes helped pay for the mink,” Lloyd reflects. “These are very functional, valuable machines that were running good parts where we bought them and we feel they have value, however… we have to doubt ourselves.” He poses the question that haunts our business: “Let’s say it is 1-5/8” RB-8 Acme. How much money could somebody potentially make on that machine over the course of one year?” He figures $25,000 to $50,000, maybe more with the right job. “We would sell that machine in that price range. Yet we find no buyers. From an economic standpoint, to me that makes no sense.” A Brutal Year The machinery dealing business has been tough this year. While many of our customers’ businesses remained steady, indecision paralyzed buying decisions—particularly around tariffs. “One of the polls I did on LinkedIn asked if indecision because of tariffs caused them to not buy equipment this year.” Fifty percent said that was one reason why they had not bought equipment. And I will never forget this year's deal from hell. ”We bought a machine in Germany, sold it to a company in the United States, and then BOOM—tariff. We went from an amazing deal to… I’m amazed we didn’t lose money.” I hate tariffs for a lot of reasons. This one was extra personal. The $20 Million Paradox The market presents striking contradictions. One of our customers recently got rid of 30 cam screw machines, selling them for “$2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a piece,” then spent over $3 million each on INDEX CNC multi-spindles—$20 million total to replace their entire shop floor. “I was shocked,” Lloyd admits. “The question was, are they that much better than a 1” Acme?” I explain the economics: “They make an entirely different kind of part. They make a part that you could make a dollar from where you make 10 cents from an Acme part. Or they’re making $10 on that part, and on the Acme, they were making a quarter.” The new machines can handle medical parts, complex geometries—the kinds of high-margin work that justifies the investment. The Davenport Bet Meanwhile, another customer is betting the opposite way, buying hundreds of Davenports for facilities in Mexico and China. Today's Davenports have a similar design to their original one from 115 years ago. The company is buying so many they’ve ordered Davenport’s entire production capacity for new machines while simultaneously buying used ones. Good ones, bad ones, anything they can find to rebuild. “There are many uses for small parts as bushings or as inserts or pins,” Lloyd explains. “And if you’re catering to a world market… they’re saying to themselves, we want to tremendously expand our capacity because we believe there is a market there and people have abandoned this market.” The China Question Lloyd sees a broader pattern: “The Chinese appear to be able to make good product, not maybe the quality of product being made in the United States or in Europe, but close to it at a fraction of the price.” He worries about Chinese companies producing chips “90 to 95% as good” as NVIDIA’s but selling for 30% less. “They’re able to make an electric car now in China and sell it in the Chinese market for under $10,000, and they’re selling them now in Germany for as low as $16,000.” “In my mind, we’re in a war with China—an economic war.” Gratitude We end where we began—with gratitude. “I get the privilege of working with you,” Lloyd tells me. And I tell him that I have a gratitude list every day in the morning, and he's on it. Readers, listeners out there—In an industry facing profound disruption, all I can say is adapt, keep picking up the phone and stay grateful. Even if you’re selling machines that might be the mink coats of manufacturing. Question: What machines did you purchase or get rid of in 2025?

Today I’m talking to a guy who believes every company needs to be built to last—not just to flip. Neil Lansing is a turnaround specialist who left private equity to bet his own money on small, underperforming businesses. He’s taken companies from 18 employees to over 400. From $2 million to $40-50 million in revenue. And when everyone else was laying people off in 2008, he told his refrigeration company’s team: “We need more clients.” After transforming mom-and-pop service companies one after another, he found his final stop, Piedmont Machine & Manufacturing. At 67, he’s not looking for the next flip. He’s building something that will outlast him. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert's Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Journey from Satellites to Shop Floors Neil started as a satellite engineer at Hughes Aircraft, became a CFO of a publicly traded pharmaceutical company, then worked in private equity doing turnarounds and startups. But eventually he walked away from working with other people’s money to bet his own cash on small businesses. It wasn’t an easy mental shift. As he told me: “I remember the first time I did something. I was sitting there and I remember, now I’m not in corporate America, I’m not in these nice New York digs… I’m in some place where it’s like, my God, what did I get myself into?” But then he told himself: “Quit crying, figure it out, make it work.” The Five-Person Rule One of Neil’s key insights is his management structure. Nobody has more than five direct reports. Not supervisors, not managers, not even Neil as owner. This tight span of control is how he grew his refrigeration company from 10-18 people to over 400 in six years while maintaining quality and accountability. “Everyone has to do what we’re supposed to do,” he explains. “If we all do what we’re supposed to do and take the accountability of what we’re supposed to do, then it can work.” Growing When Others Retreat The 2008 financial crisis tested every business owner, but Neil’s response was counterintuitive. While the country was laying off 700,000 people a month, he gathered his top 10 guys and said: “We’ve just got to get more clients.” By Christmas, they were bringing in all new work. Then their existing clients–Target, Publix, Costco – suddenly needed massive expansions. Neil went from laying off 40-50 people to desperately hiring them back plus another 40-50 more. Why Manufacturing, Why Now After several successful turnarounds, Neil decided manufacturing would be his next chapter. He bought Piedmont Machine in Concord, North Carolina, seeing opportunity where others saw decline. The company does Swiss machining for smaller diameter work and can handle parts up to 30 inches in diameter—from roller bearing components for landing gear to automated door systems. He envisions growing his company to 80-100 employees, consolidating into a new 60-75,000 square foot facility, and implementing comprehensive training programs. The Grinder’s Legacy Neil calls himself a “grinder” – someone focused on day-to-day execution rather than just deal-making. His philosophy centers on personal responsibility: “If I don’t do what I’m supposed to do, then I can’t pay these people. And if I can’t pay these people, that means that we did it wrong.” What drives someone to keep grinding at 67? Neil says it's about legacy, not money. “Everything I’ve done, it still works. It still runs. If I do something and it goes under or it stops being in existence, then I feel like that’s not a good legacy. That means I didn’t do it right.” Neil doesn’t know how to run a machine and doesn’t want to. He knows how to run a business with clear strategy, deep understanding of people, and balls, and he's still betting big because that’s what real builders do.

The last six months I've been using AI to help me with everything from business negotiations to dealing with my kid's pneumonia. It's become a daily part of how I operate—at work and at home. The big difference between it and just googling is that you have a conversation with it. Check out the video [...]

“Rare earths aren't actually rare, nor are they earths,” Julie Klinger told me. Julie is an associate professor at UW Madison and literally wrote the book on rare earth elements—Rare Earth Frontiers: From Terrestrial Subsoils to Lunar Landscapes. I interviewed her last week, the day after Trump signed a rare earths deal with China, which [...]

Last week another machinery dealer mentioned that being a family business was part of why she wanted to work with us at Graff-Pinkert. I don't know if that was the deciding factor, but it reminded me that persuasion often happens before you say a word. This concept of convincing someone before you even start making [...]

Today I'm going to tell you how to get lucky. It seems like some people are always in the right place at the right time getting all the lucky breaks, while the rest of us watch from the sidelines. I often feel like I'm in that sideline category too. But as used machinery dealers, our [...]

What if I told you there's a tool that can look at a photo of your weld and tell you exactly what you screwed up. The tool could also help you figure out that your machining problem isn't your end mill, it's actually your coolant, and it costs less than hiring one person? On today's [...]

I highly recommend you watch the video version of this podcast. Click on the link to go to the video. I won a few big matches on my high school Tennis team, but I was never awesome. I never won the big tournaments. What killed me was that I always had more fun and played [...]

If you had $100,000 to spend on your machine shop, what would you spend it on? When I polled people on LinkedIn, out of 170 responses, 46% said they would buy a new machine, 33% said “robots and automation.” Only seventeen percent said “hire and train people.” Does this mean American shops have basically given [...]

Sometimes great conversations just happen. But what I've learned after 14 years selling used machines, and almost 250 podcast interviews, is that most conversations, even great ones, could be guided to be even better. Recently, I heard a podcast with journalist Polina Pompliano that reinforced techniques I've been using in business and my own journalism [...]

I don't know about you, but when the tariffs hit on Liberation Day, April 2nd, we were like “Oh @#$%, is this really happening?” We watched our portfolios crash in real time. Our company lost half our profit from one deal overnight, and honestly, we had no clue what was coming next. On today's show, [...]

Most shop owners get comfortable after 50 years. John Griner gets uncomfortable on purpose. John has been making screw machine parts since 1979 while starting countless other businesses, which he refers to as “hobbies.” As a machinery dealer, I've bought and sold equipment from John over the years. He's always a tough negotiator and always [...]

I know a ton of people reading this will relate to what I'm talking about: starting something that feels completely daunting. So here's another blog about my new YouTube channel, I Learned It on a Podcast—partly because I desperately need viewers, but mostly because this episode hit me hard.” “For those new to the show: [...]

A few months ago, we brokered a Tornos MultiSwiss 8/26 from Germany to a shop in Massachusetts. To make sure the machine was in top shape, we brought in two Tornos experts—my friend Dulio and his longtime mentor, Donato Notaro–today's podcast guest. Donato had just officially retired after nearly 50 years in the machining world, [...]

I just launched a new YouTube show where I share the most fascinating lessons I've learned from podcasts—ideas that can help you grow in business and life. It's called I Learned It on a Podcast. The first episode dives into a topic I know Swarfcast listeners will appreciate: how to communicate, negotiate, and really listen—even [...]

Chris Armstrong has saved me more times than I can count—helping us at Graff-Pinkert through tough machinery deals, especially when it comes to Swiss machines. Citizens? He's our guy. But today's podcast isn't just about technical know-how. After years of driving coast to coast fixing machines and solving problems most people wouldn't touch, Chris is [...]

Lately, I've been kind of on an AI bender using chatbots like ChatGPT and Claude daily. Whether I like it or not, AI is transforming the way I write, the way I search the Internet, maybe even the way I think. My guest on today's show, Riley Hutchinson, is bringing that transformation into CNC machine [...]

I met today's guest, Mike Pelham, completely by chance — over breakfast at the hotel bar during PMTS in Cleveland. He knew who I was from the podcast. But I didn't know him. Kind of strange when that happens — but it's really cool. After we talked for five minutes, I started thinking he could [...]

Born with no intention of becoming a machinist, Greg Knight says he was drafted into “indentured servitude” at age 16 when his father started a Brown & Sharpe machine shop in their garage. Despite his initial distaste for manual labor, fate had other plans for the psychology, philosophy, religion, and sociology major. I ran into [...]

On today's show I'm bringing back  one of my favorite past guests on the podcast—Damon Pistulka. The first time Damon was on the show he talked about his company Exit Your Way, which helps businesses level up for successful acquisitions. Today he is going to talk about his other venture, B2BTail, which advises small manufacturing [...]

Today we're running a podcast that I guested on in September of 2024 called “Networking and Marketing Made Simple.” The show focuses on how LinkedIn can be used to grow your business. It's hosted by Scott Aaron, who for the last seven months was my LinkedIn coach, an experience that is already paying dividends in [...]

When Trump was elected President for a second term, I expected there would be a lot of talk about tariffs, but I didn't anticipate all the attention on the Panama Canal and Greenland. So, it seemed like the perfect time for Lloyd and I to talk to one of our favorite geopolitics experts, Dr. Andrew [...]

My guest on today's podcast, Anthony Davis, told me that since age 10 he and his brother knew they wanted to join their family business, Global CNC, a tooling manufacturer for CNC lathes and mills. Today at age 23, Anthony runs the company alongside his 25-year-old brother, Alexander, and their 84-year-old grandfather who founded the [...]

It takes tremendous balls to start a machining company from scratch. And, maybe a little extra chutzpa to start a shop that primarily runs cam screw machines making millions of parts for automotive. After 23 years working in job shops and running a small farm, Karl Drasgow cashed out his 401K to found Drasgow Inc., [...] The post What it Takes to Start a Multi-Spindle Shop–EP 235 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Damn. It's already 2025? I was just getting used to the idea that it was 2024. Today, Lloyd and I are reflecting on what worked and didn't work in our used machinery business and our personal lives over the last year. We're also discussing our intentions and predictions for the new year. Will we sell [...] The post What the Heck is Our Strategy for 2025?–EP 234 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

I often ponder—why do some people own and build companies, while most people are destined to spend their careers as employees. In Part II of my interview with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing & Fabrication, we explore this question. Mike comes from a family of six generations of teachers, not business managers or entrepreneurs, [...] The post Why Some People Build Companies and Others Don't, Mike Payne (Part 2) EP 233 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

On today's podcast, I'm talking with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, to peek inside the mind of a prolific acquirer of manufacturing companies. Before purchasing Hill in 2018, Mike spent 20 years in M&A, orchestrating over 100 deals across nearly every industry. Since then, Mike has acquired four [...] The post Manufacturing Acquisitions with Purpose, Mike Payne (Part 1)-EP 232 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Have you ever wondered how a used machinery dealer like myself approaches buying secondhand equipment? About a month ago, I did my first LinkedIn live talk and featured that subject. I focused the talk on my techniques for communicating with sellers and equipment experts. I believe the majority of people these days lean too much [...] The post 3 Secrets to Buy Used Equipment like a Used Machinery Dealer-EP 231 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

You may have noticed that I often talk about friction on this podcast. That's because everyone has to fight friction in business—and there is A LOT of friction in the manufacturing business. Friction from time consuming stuff. Friction from stuff being too hard to figure out. Friction from stuff we're not qualified to do or [...] The post Your Shop Is Too Slow, with Const Ivanov-EP 230 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Why would anybody buy a CNC multi-spindle for $2 million? Or $3 million for that matter? My guest on today's podcast, Richard Kingsbury, has the answer. Richard is Managing Director of the Kingsbury Engineering Division, England's INDEX distributor. In this interview, Richard gives a history lesson of screw machining. We discuss how you sell a [...] The post How a $2 Million Dollar INDEX Multi-Spindle MAKES You Money, Richard Kingsbury-EP 229 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

I've interviewed a lot of interesting business coaches for this podcast, and all the coaches had one thing in common. They focused on coaching a company's owner or management, rather than working with everyone at the company. But my guest on today's show, Tim Drinkwater, founder of Accurate Machine Products in Janesville, Wisconsin, hired a [...] The post Why I Hired a Life Coach for My Machinists, with Tim Drinkwater–EP 228 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

This week on Swarfcast, we've been thinking a lot about some of the exciting tech that we saw last month at IMTS. One thing that always stands out to us are the robots. As our recent podcasts have touched on the topic of AI, we thought it would be fitting to reshare an interview we [...] The post Robots that Know Where to Go, With George Konidaris–EP 193 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

I encounter a lot of friction in my work. Too many obstacles get in the way of me doing the things I need to do and the things I like to do. I know all of you out there have friction in your work too, and if you're in the manufacturing business you likely encounter [...] The post ISO Without the Headache, Adam Marsh-EP 227 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

If you have not already listened to Part I, you can find it here. After serving in the Navy SEALs for nine years, Bill Berrien retired from the military in 1999, ready for a new chapter in his life. He attended Harvard business school where there were six other SEALs in his class. After graduating [...] The post How a Navy SEAL Runs a Machining Company, with Bill Berrien (Part II)—EP172 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Bill Berrien has had an extraordinary professional journey. He earned an MBA at Harvard, worked for General Electric and then in private equity. Ten years ago, he purchased Pindel Global Precision, a successful two-generation machining company near Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which he has modernized and grown over the past decade. Oh, I forgot to mention, he [...] The post How a Navy SEAL Runs a Machining Company, with Bill Berrien (Part I)–EP171 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

At IMTS 2024, I learned about the latest technology for CNC lathes, robots, and most notably 3D printing. Stratasys was the first 3D printing company I visited at the show. I spoke with Foster Ferguson, Director of Aerospace, and Tom Leach, Commercial Leader at Stratasys, about 3D printing applications for automotive and space vehicles. Then I spoke with [...] The post 3D Printing a Human Heart at IMTS–EP 226 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Today's podcast episode is the second half of our interview with Dr. Onome Scott-Emuakpor, the founder of Hyphen Innovations, a firm that develops low cost, damage resistant aerospace components. When Onome does engineering research, he fuels his creativity by embracing resource constraints and what he calls the “fail fast” mentality. The fail fast mentality means [...] The post Thinking Like an Artist to Solve Engineering Challenges, With Dr. Onome Scott-Emuakpor—Ep. 181 (Part II) first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Noah is attending IMTS this week, so we are resharing one of our favorite podcasts from last year. This episode of Swarfcast was recorded in March of 2023. The second part is also available online here. On today's podcast, we talk about how you can apply the artistic side of your brain to solve engineering [...] The post Thinking Like an Artist to Solve Engineering Challenges, With Dr. Onome Scott-Emuakpor (Part I)—Ep. 180 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Terry Iverson is a lifer in the machining industry. His grandfather sold machines for Hardinge over 100 years ago, and for 40 years he ran the Hardinge machinery distributor for the Midwest.  Today Terry focuses his efforts on getting young people in America into manufacturing. He wrote two books directed at parents to open their [...] The post CNC Machining Camp, with Terry Iverson–EP 225 first appeared on Today's Machining World.

Most of us don't have a knack for pivoting.  We follow the standard curriculum, and we keep going forward when we get in a lane, whether we believe it's the right direction or not. But for Michael Gimbel, my guest on today's show, seeing setbacks as serendipity and then pivoting is a natural gift. Michael [...] The post Pivoting to Manufacture a Product, with Michael Gimbel – EP 224 first appeared on Today's Machining World.