Podcasts about romal tune

Too often, we make ourselves smaller to fit into spaces that were never meant for us. But what if instead of shrinking, you grew? In this episode with Romal Tune, we explore the power of curiosity, perspective, and unexpected wisdom. Whether it's learning from people who don't look like us, recognizing that rejection often has more to do with others' fears than our own limitations, or understanding that growth requires releasing old versions of ourselves—this conversation is about breaking free, thinking bigger, and stepping boldly into your purpose. If you've ever felt stuck, misunderstood, or underestimated, this episode is for you. Tune in now and discover how reframing your story can change everything. [INVESTOR ROADMAP] Ready to take control of your future? Discover your personalized real estate strategy with our Investor Roadmap Quiz. Start Your Quiz Now and map out your path to success! [RESOURCE] Ready to enhance your child's learning at home? Here are the homeschool activities for your kids!    [FB GROUP] Loving the podcast and want to engage more with me and our incredible guests? Join the Owning It and Living It Facebook group! It's where you'll find real estate tips, expert guidance, and a community of investors to support you. Join today and let's level up your real estate journey!   GUEST RESOURCES Romal Tune  IG | romaltune_ X | @RomalTune  YouTube | @RomalTune  Tiktok | @romaltune  RESOURCES:  Erika Brown IG: @erikabrowninvestor LinkedIn: @erika brown Wealth Within Reach is produced by EPYC Media Network

[LIMITED TIME PROMO] Unlock your potential and save $500 off the Pathway Program with code P2P500! Gain expert insights and actionable strategies to fast-track your growth. Don't miss this offer – accelerate your journey today!  [OILI Conference] Don't miss out on the opportunity to be part of a dynamic community of investors! Join the Waitlist now and secure your spot at this exclusive event! For many of us, success starts with survival—breaking cycles, overcoming trauma, and pushing toward a better future. But what happens when making money isn't enough? In this powerful episode, I sit down with Romal Tune, author, speaker, and life coach, who has lived through poverty, violence, and addiction—only to emerge with a deeper understanding of true wealth, healing, and purpose. Romal's journey shows us that building wealth isn't just about money—it's about breaking through the mental and emotional barriers that keep us stuck. He shares how he confronted the wounds of his past, found strength in community, and redefined what success truly means. Tune in as Romal highlights the transformative power of resilience, support, and personal growth. KEY POINTS:  - Introduction to Ramal Tune - On living life through the lens of possibility  - The value of focusing on purpose and inner peace - On overcoming scarcity mindset, achieving true healing  - Defining moments from Ramal's life  - On finding purpose, dealing with perfectionism  - The gift of seeing potential in others - Redefining wealth and success  - The importance of community and support  - Heal from past traumas, break generational curses - Love for one's self leads to success and fulfillment QUOTES:  “Wealth is attained by asking the right questions to find the right answers.” – Romal Tune  “Money never promised you inner peace, never. In fact, money also never promised that you would have a life free of difficulty.” – Romal Tune “It's important for people to tell stories, not just the wealth, journey of where you are now, and the success — but what it took to get there,  where you come from, what you had to overcome to get to this place?”  – Romal Tune GUEST RESOURCES Romal Tune  IG | romaltune_ X | @RomalTune  YouTube | @RomalTune  Tiktok | @romaltune  RESOURCES:  [INVESTOR ROADMAP] Ready to take control of your future? Discover your personalized real estate strategy with our Investor Roadmap Quiz. Start Your Quiz Now and map out your path to success! [RESOURCE] Ready to enhance your child's learning at home? Here are the homeschool activities for your kids!    [FB GROUP] Loving the podcast and want to engage more with me and our incredible guests? Join the Owning It and Living It Facebook group! It's where you'll find real estate tips, expert guidance, and a community of investors to support you. Join today and let's level up your real estate journey!   Erika Brown IG: @erikabrowninvestor LinkedIn: @erika brown Wealth Within Reach is produced by EPYC Media Network

Just a note that this episode discusses sexual abuse and briefly mentions suicide.  If you or anyone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts, Call or text 988 or text TALK to 741741 Romal Tune is passionate about teaching others how to heal the wounds of their past. He uses the power of storytelling to bring about meaningful change. Romal is the author of three books: God's Graffiti, Love is an Inside Job, and his latest, I Wish My Dad: The Power of Vulnerable Conversations Between Fathers and Sons. This episode is special to me because my story is featured in I Wish My Dad. Romal and I have been colleagues for close to 15 years, and our friendship deepened when he joined my family for a suicide prevention walk in the wake of the death of my brother Myron in September 2013. In this episode, we discuss the themes of I Wish My Dad, including healing, forgiveness, self-care, and the links between personal and social healing. Social Media Handles: Instagram @iwishmydad Twitter: @romaltune

Romal Tune, author of “I Wish My Dad” joins Alvin, Bobby, and Vash to help us all heal and/or enhance our relationships with our dads or children. The book is a much needed, powerful, insightful, and enlightening guide for navigating relationships between men and their fathers. Romal interviewed 17 men between the ages 30 to 78, including his own son Jordan Tune. The resulting book allow readers a glimpse into the emotional needs of men and their personal struggles with father-and-son relationships. It lends a voice to the endless possibilities that can heal those broken relationships. This book shares truths we all need to hear in all of our lives. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/hesaidhesaidhesaidlive/message

Walter Naegle, was Bayard Rustin's life partner for over a decade before his passing. He is one of the first LGBTQ partners to accept a Presidential Medal of Freedom on their partner's behalf. He co-authored "Troublemaker for Justice: The Story of Bayard Rustin, the Man Behind the March on Washington," and he is an administrator on the Facebook page, "Brother Outsider, The Life of Bayard Rustin." Mr. Naegle joins Alvin, Bobby, and Vash for a very special conversation to honor American Civil Rights pioneer, the unapologetically Gay and Black Bayard Rustin, architect and organizer of the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. Note: Our original featured guest, Romal Tune, was hospitalized for complications with COVID. He will join us when his health permits. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/hesaidhesaidhesaidlive/message

“The journey I'm on is trying to unpack my story in a way to find out who I am without my trauma. And what does life look like and how is it lived if I stop living through the lens of my trauma and the things that have been challenging for me, and really focus on purpose.” Ever Forward Club's Ashanti Branch is joined by Romal Tune. Romal is a father, author, social impact Entrepreneur, and VP of Strategic Partnerships at TMS Global. Along with his main purpose - to help people heal their stories - Romal loves to travel and collect art. In this conversation, Ashanti and Romal share the masks they present to the world, and Romal explains how understanding his own masks led him to the idea of writing his latest book, I Wish My Dad. (1:05) Ashanti's introduction. (7:45) Romal introduces himself, his work, his most recent book, and his family. (11:30) Romal shares the front of his mask - creativity, caring, passionate - and how his childhood shaped his interests, passions, and desire to heal. (16:15) Ashanti shares the front of his mask - passionate, serious, caring. Then, Romal and Ashanti reflect on their relationships with art and creativity. (21:40) Romal shares the back of his mask - anxiety, doubt, lonely - and how his journey on the back of the mask is an exercise in unpacking things about himself. (26:55) Ashanti shares the back of his mask - anxiety, fear, body shame - and how these feelings have become more present with age as the purpose of his journey has crystallized. (38:35) Romal explains the impetus behind his book, I Wish My Dad. (44:25) Then, Ashanti and Romal observe how both young people and adults are learning how to love each other better by breaking down social paradigms. (53:55) Romal shares how you can buy his book and get in touch. --- Connect with Romal Tune: Website: romaltune.com Buy “I Wish My Dad”: iwishmydad.com Instagram: instagram.com/iwishmydad Twitter: twitter.com/romaltune --- Support the podcast and the work of the Ever Forward Club: anchor.fm/branch-speaks/support Create your own mask anonymously at millionmask.org If you are interested in being on the Face to Face podcast, email us at everforwardclub@gmail.com --- Connect with Ashanti Branch: Instagram: instagram.com/branchspeaks Facebook: facebook.com/BranchSpeaks Twitter: twitter.com/BranchSpeaks LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ashantibranch Website: branchspeaks.com --- Send in a voice message: anchor.fm/branch-speaks/message --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/branch-speaks/support

Rebecca and Megan Lovell of the Grammy-nominated band Larkin Poe tell us about their new release, “Blood Harmony.” Plus, author Romal Tune details lessons from his new book, "I Wish My Dad: The Power of Vulnerable Conversations between Fathers and Sons." Then, H Johnson joins us to celebrate Ramsey Lewis in the next installment of our series, “H Johnson's Jazz Moment.” See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On September 16th, my father's physical light was extinguished. He was my utter, my guy, my best of the best friend. Charles S. Corprew, Jr. was a juggernaut of man. He was the penultimate father. To honor his legacy, author Romal Tune joins me on the show to discuss his forthcoming book, "I Wish My Dad: The Power of vulnerable conversations between fathers and sons. A wonderful primer, co-authored by 17 men as they discuss the things their fathers had done in their relationships. For me, I wish my dad was still here! Yet, for many, they detail how they wished their fathers were there more often or had been more vulnerable, or been more loving. Fathers are staples of our lives and this book and these authors highlight how some fathers need to step up. Yet for others, like myself, I wish my dad had seen me get married or coupled. I wish my dad had a grandson to love on as he loved on me for 50+ years. I wish my dad was still here! The conversation between Romal and I weaves its way through overcoming trauma, showing up in a world trauma-free, to understanding the roles of our fathers in our lives and how these folx are pivotal to our ability to thrive in the world. I just have to say this! I have the dopest guest on this show! To order his book! Please order here https://www.amazon.com/Wish-My-Dad-Vulnerable-Conversations/dp/1506481574/ref=asc_df_1506481574/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=564746907310&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9437018006657273588&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008542&hvtargid=pla-1635453505825&psc=1

http://www.BlackFathersNOW.com Episode 291 is a POWERFUL convo with a brother that drops serious Wisdom for ALL of us to take action on. This brother is Romal Tune...he's the author of "I Wish My Dad". Follow @RomalTune on IG/TikTok and grab a copy of "I Wish My Dad" anywhere you buy books!!!! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/black-fathers-now/id1230596918 Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/black-fathers-now YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtczqqU6-ZAwG37LcRpwJ3Q

We have a crisis in masculinity. Many think the answer is to double down on a manhood that emphasizes burying your emotions to “stay strong.” But what if that is destroying men and their relationships? What if there is a healthier way of being a man that includes vulnerability? What if that's where men can find their true strength and healthier relationships? Join Pastor Adam and Romal Tune with your comments and questions as they discuss Romal's latest book, “I Wish My Dad.”

Isaiah says, in Chapter 61, that God can bring forth beauty for ashes. But what does that look like in the life of a Christ follower. Listen as noted author and special guest Rev. Romal Tune discusses this idea and more.  Episode 3-20 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brilliant.gaze.5 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brilliantgazepod/  Twitter: https://twitter.com/brilliantgaze Selah Information: www.selahrest.org Pre-Order for “I Wish My Dad…” https://www.amazon.com/Wish-My-Dad-Vulnerable-Conversations/dp/1506481574/ref=sr_1_2?crid=38CGDE8MRY7Y1&keywords=i+wish+my+dad+normal+tune&qid=1650485062&sprefix=I+wish+my+da%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-2

Author, Speaker, Pastor and founder of Clerestory, Romal Tune is also VP for Strategic Partnerships at TMS Global. Romal and host Max Wilkins discuss how to look inward at our own personal story, how to engage with God and others around our personal story in authentic ways, and how to grow into the lives we were created to live. Episode 4 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brilliant.gaze.5 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brilliantgazepod/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/brilliantgaze

A dynamic discussion for our African American men on how to find strength in vulnerability, featuring Romal Tune and Broderick McBride. *This episode is also featured on the Crazy Counselor YouTube page*

When you are abandoned, neglected, or mistreated by someone who is supposed to love you, it can leave a deep heart wound. Carrying the weight of unforgiveness, shame, and self-doubt from that painful chapter of your life can lead to a life of bitterness, destruction, and inner turmoil if left unaddressed. Join us for an inspirational conversation about the journey towards forgiveness and healing with author and speaker, Romal Tune. Subscribe/Rate Never miss an episode by hitting the subscribe button RIGHT NOW! Help other people find our community by taking a few moments to leave a review in your podcasting app. Thanks! Connect with Faith on the Journey Website: Faithonthejourney.org Instagram: @myfaithonthejourney Facebook: @faithonthejourney Youtube: Faith on the Journey. Click https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLbmB8oL-hfU6bVW9kEIcFQ to subscribe. Connect with Romal Tune Website(s): RomalTune.com ClerestoryWorks.org Social Media: IG - @RomalTune FB - TuneUnscripted Twitter - @RomalTune Book - Love Is an Inside Job Support Faith on the Journey is a Christian ministry that helps you move forward from painful events in your life that have caused you to feel stuck. FOTJ is the place you can turn to for encouragement, resources, and spiritual direction. Subscribe to our email list or donate to our ministry by visiting faithonthejourney.org. Deals Get a copy of Jocelyn's book Breaking the Power of the Mask by visiting faithonthejourney.org. Also, for the month of August only, the course Forgiveness: Learning to Forgive When it Hurts 20% off. Take advantage of this deal by visiting faithonthejourney.org. The music for this show is provided by Bensound.com. Episode art by Mark Jonell Host: Jocelyn J. Jones Guest: Romal Tune Editor: Taylor Schroll (http://taylorschroll.com/editing) --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/jocelyn-jones8/support

Series - In My Shoes Speaker - Romal Tune www.eastlakecc.com/donate  

Speaker - Romal Tune Topic - Character Matters: Trust www.eastlakecc.com

Author Romal Tune shares some history on the Civil Rights Act of 1866, the first U.S. federal law to define citizenship and affirm that all citizens are equally protected by the law.

Author Romal Tune shares some history on the Civil Rights Act of 1866, the first U.S. federal law to define citizenship and affirm that all citizens are equally protected by the law.

  Transcript of Interview with Scot McCarthy Hugh Ballou: It's Hugh Ballou. It's another great version of The Nonprofit Exchange. We are four years into this, Russell. What do you think of that? Russell Dennis: I think the next six we are going to blow the lid off of this thing. Hugh: You blow the lid off every week. Russell: And grow and grow and grow. Hugh: We have a mild-mannered man here in Lynchburg. He has got a lot under the hood. He's got a little hair there. He hasn't quite reached your perfect head status yet. Scot McCarthy is a man I met at the business alliance here. We have some mutual friends here. He has referred me to folks, and I've referred him to folks. I've determined that he has some really unique expertise that is applicable for these nonprofits that we're talking to. We try to give them really good sound business principles because we are actually operating a tax-exempt business with a lot of rules for the IRS. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Scot. Scot McCarthy: Thank you. Good to be here. Hugh: Tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, and what is it that you say that you do. Scot: My son doesn't believe me, but years ago I had a full head of hair. He looks at this today and says, “No, that's my future.” It's kind of funny. I found a couple pictures of myself in high school where he is today. I had a nice, big, thick head of hair just like he has today, and it was sad that I kind of saw the soul sucked right out of his body. I'm trying to help my son recover. But in the meantime, what I have been doing with my life is working in the corporate world, the nonprofit world, and everywhere in between for the last 20 years or so on organizational development and organizational effectiveness roles.  I have a lot of time with individual teams and leadership development programs. I find that there is a nice translation between what we try to do in the for-profit world with our human resources to deliver for our customers and in reality we do the same thing in the nonprofit world. In fact, what I've found is that it's even more important on the human development side in the nonprofit world because we tend not to have a whole lot of headcount to work with to get the job done for our customers and our client base. I've had a great career about 20-25 years in organizational development work. I have had my own company, Stylewise Partners, for the last three years, and I work with for-profit and nonprofit organizations. Hugh: You work regionally, or you work nationally? Scot: I work nationally. I do a lot of work for Stylewise Partners regionally, but because I have had such a fortunate network with General Electric and GE Capital and a number of different organizations over my career, I get called by other companies out of Richmond, out of Boston, out of Colorado, and other locations to come help them with organizational development work as well. My work takes me domestically, and in the past, internationally as well. Hugh: Awesome. And you and I have similar work, but you do it a little differently in a different segment. We have a passion for enabling and empowering and encouraging nonprofit leaders. One of our guests a few weeks ago, Romal Tune, said we have a for-profit business, but this one is a for-purpose business. I really liked it. What are we going to talk about today? Scot: Today, what I thought we'd touch on is seeing the fact that nonprofits have to really get the most out of their human resources, I wanted to talk a little bit about engagement. How do you help folks in what can sometimes be a stressful or resource-restricted environment to still come in with their passion on fire and get the most out of everybody on a daily basis in the nonprofit world? I think employee engagement is the topic that is on my mind today. Hugh: We have purposeful organizations, and it's important to have purposeful people do purposeful work. That is a good continuity piece. HR. Talk a little bit about HR. A lot of charities don't even think about it. You said HR, didn't you? Scot: Yeah.   Hugh: I heard that. By the way, Russ, we're having a coffee. Some of my freshly roasted espresso beans with a little latte. If we could, we would share it with you, but we can't. Russell: Just don't have too much of it. I don't want you guys to look like a pair of operators before the broadcast ends. Hugh: That's it. We want to keep it lively. Talk about HR. Do you work with HR directors in for-profits and for-purpose organizations? Scot: Yes, absolutely. In fact, my career was, I kind of think of HR as two legs of a stool or two pieces of the pie. There is the policies and procedures and regulatory side of human resources, and what we can and can't do, and where we need to make sure that we remain compliant. Then there is the human development side of HR. That's really where I focused in my career. Honestly, I just never found my passion around the policies and procedures and that side of HR. Absolutely critically important. I think that's something that nonprofits really can take advantage of HR leaders in their communities where they can gain that expertise. I have worked for HR leaders in nonprofit health care and in for-profit financial services that were absolutely phenomenal, and both offered their services continually to nonprofits in the area to help make sure that they were taking care of all the crossing of the T's and the dotting of the I's. Hugh: That is so important. Russell, in your experience working with a number of nonprofits, is there a gap in competency in this area of human resources? Russell: Talking to people to really find out what they need is important. It begins with finding out what's in it for them, whether you're asking a volunteer or someone on your board or bringing them in to work: What are your motivations? You don't always have a lot of money to work with, so you will have to find some of those other motivations, whether it's building your personal network or getting some visibility through something they create or through some growth opportunities. Are they students? Are they padding their resumes? Are they seniors looking for a way to make a difference? It really boils down to effective relationships and having people connect with you on that level.   Hugh: And you mentioned the two sides of HR. I see this more and more. Sometimes they are dividing the work. There is a person that does culture. It's personal growth. How do we nurture this culture development? That is my passion. The other side, you have the legal compliance piece, to keep you out of trouble, which is important. Those two really need to work together because we can do culture creation, which empowers the compliance piece. If people function at a higher level, not only are they more fulfilled personally, but their work is more efficient, more effective. Scot: Absolutely. A lot of times, I really enjoy helping organizations, especially nonprofits, focus on what are the behaviors that make up that culture? What is our mission and vision? What are we here to do to deliver in the marketplace and in the community? What are the key behaviors that we need from our people to deliver on that mission and vision? Where I see that tie coming in is that when people are not displaying the right behavior, the right motives, the right purpose, that's when we get into trouble with the compliance issues. That's when people are bending the rules a little bit too far and going to the point of breaking them versus remaining compliant and again crossing all our T's and dotting all our I's. Hugh: In talking about behaviors, there are tools that we can take instruments that we can do, like DISC or Myers-Briggs or some of those tools. Do you use some of those tools? What is the benefit in using any of those instruments? Scot: Absolutely. I am a strong believer from an internal perspective on Myers-Briggs, what my own personal preference is for how I integrate with the world and how I interact with the world. From a visible behavior perspective, I think Insights is a tremendous tool. I think DISC is a tremendous tool. I use DISC all the time from an individual coaching perspective, from a leadership coaching perspective, but then as an organizational culture and team development perspective as well. I think it's important. We have to, especially in a nonprofit, where the teams are typically smaller, and we need to be more flexible in how we work with each other during the day to be able to understand why Scot approaches a certain task or certain responsibility differently than Hugh does differently than Russell does. Not to necessarily say I am right, you are wrong, or you are right and I am wrong. But just know that this is how Hugh approaches things, this is the strength he has, this is the benefit of his thought process that he can bring to the organization. How do we get the best out of Russell? How do we get the best out of Scot? How do we get the best out of Sally and Jane and really come together to be a strong cohesive team? Hugh: It's good when you go through that as a staff together. I did Myers-Briggs several iterations with different church staffs. I remember one in Florida where we had been away for a three-day retreat. Part of one of the days was Myers-Briggs and the understanding of what it means and how introverts and extroverts relate to each other. I go in the choir and get them on the edge of their seats and say, “Guess what? I found out something about myself!” “Okay, what?” “I'm an extrovert!” They went, “Boo, hiss. We know that.” Scot: That was easily read, I can imagine. Hugh: I'm like way over. The bar was over. ENFJ. Yeah, you could figure that one out. Scot: Get stuff done. Hugh: Make a decision. But I also, the liabilities of that, J's make a decision without enough information. P's, Perceiving, need more information, but they wait too long, so having the relationship, which is the foundation of leadership, I think, having the relationship of those two balance each other out. Does DISC offer different kinds of elements than Myers-Briggs? I think a lot of people know Myers-Briggs or know about it. Scot: Yeah, DISC is another acronym. We don't need another acronym in life, but here it is. D is around Dominance, or how do I overcome obstacles to get things done? It's about challenging the status quo. It's about gathering information from different pieces, making a quick decision, and moving forward. I is around Influence or relationships. I is the human side of things. I's come into the office on Monday morning and check in with everybody, saying, “How is the weekend? How did the kids do on their sports teams? Did you go to church? Did you like that song that we did?” It's all around the interactions. Meanwhile, the D's are going, “Get to work. Come on. Let's go.” The S is around Steadiness, which is around the piece of, “Do I enjoy a nice steady pace in my life?” like opening up a box to put up a ceiling fan in the house. A high steadiness person would open up the box carefully and take the inventory, go step one, step two, step three, step four, and eventually put up a ceiling fan. A non-steadiness person would rip the box open and just start putting stuff together. It's neither here nor there in terms of what's right and what's wrong; it's just how you go about life. Steadiness is around the pace of life. I happen to be a higher steadiness person. If my wife, who I love dearly, comes to me on a Saturday morning and says, “Can you get this done today?” it will get me crazy because I already have my Saturday scheduled out. Sometimes, S's have trouble with priorities because if I have my list of 10 things I am doing on that Saturday, if the kitchen is on fire and the wife asks me to put the fire out, it is #11 on my list. I have already got my top 10. Hugh: Funny. Scot: That's a little bit about high steadiness. C is around Conscientiousness. How do we handle rules and procedures set by others? Do we follow the rules? Or is it more of a Pirates of the Caribbean thing where the rules are just guidelines? So that's a little bit about DISC. It's very visible. The thing I like about DISC is you can see if someone is a rule-follower or a rule-breaker. You can see if someone has a preference for a step one, step two, step three approach to the world or if they like to fight fires. I have a friend of mine who is an emergency, ED, doctor in the hospital. Step one, step two, step three kind of applies, but he loves not knowing what is coming in the door next. If he was put into a cubicle and said to balance these T sheets with debits and credits, it would drive him crazy. All of that comes into play in the world of nonprofit in terms of how well leaders know their people and what their people are best at and how you can best utilize those resources that you have on your team. DISC is a very effective tool to be able not only to have your team know each other better, understand each other better, come together as a team, but for the leader to have that information to go, “Ah, Hugh is the guy who will make sure that we are doing things with quality and accuracy. Jane is the one who is going to push us to make that decision when we have enough data and push us forward. So-and-so is the people person. They will be great in marketing these new events we have coming up.” It's a tool that you can use to really maximize the effectiveness of your team. Hugh: In its best sense. There is a weakness side, too. I got a couple of follow-up questions. It helps you discover yourself and your own style. Being authentic as a leader is part of what Russ and I teach. It's also important to know that when you are talking to your donors. You said across the desk, bottom line person, get to the point, or do you sit at the corner of your desk, talk about family? Can you tell about a person? You're not going to tell them to take a profile and then proceed from the DISC profile. Can you get to know them before you present so you know where they fit? Scot: Yeah, I think so. In some of my DISC presentations, I have a slide that gets to that in terms of: If people are focusing on When, When is it going to be done? When do we have to have this? The decisions that are being made. That tends to be someone who focuses on the D or the Dominance. It's time-oriented. We need to do this, make this decision, and move on. If they tend to focus on Who, Who needs to be involved? Who do we need to communicate with? Who do we need to gain information from? Might be dealing with someone that is a Higher I or Influencer. If they talk about process a lot, like what happens first? What happens next? What happens next? What happens next? That tends to be high steadiness because they are so process-oriented. If they are focusing on the rules and regulations and they are trying to always focus on delivering with quality and accuracy, that tends to be highly Conscientious. You can almost pick up DISC characteristics and preferences based on what people tend to focus on and what they are asking us about. Hugh: We need to know what people are presenting to and how they receive information and how we are going to relate to them. There is also a negative side. I've seen people with Myers-Briggs and DISC try to cover up their weaknesses by saying, “This is my profile, so get over it.” They use it as an excuse because they really haven't developed the relationships and accountabilities with people or gotten to know the usage of it well. Do you want to speak to that side? How do we prevent that from being a problem? Scot: I think that's really important. I think the other learning that we need to bring in there is maybe a little bit from Goleman in terms of emotional intelligence and social intelligence. We can always capitalize on our strengths, and I do encourage people to do that. Recognize that a high D brain brings certain characteristics and certain benefits to the party. No matter what our style is, no matter our blend of Myers-Briggs or DISC or any other assessment, we are going to have things that enable us to be successful. We are going to have characteristics that are potential barriers. To say, “Well, this is here I am. Tough. Deal with it,” we are cutting ourselves short in terms of our potential effectiveness. I always go after the concept of flexing my style. Just like you're saying, if I am dealing with a donor, they are a high D. They just want the bare bones; what's my money going to go to? What is the benefit of me donating to this cause? When am I going to start seeing the benefits? Then I want to make sure I flex my style. Even if I'm not a high D, I am going to flex my style to that person so I can live in their world and talk their language for a little bit. If I am working with a high I, and I just go in with the facts and figures, I am going to seem very cold to that donor. I am going to need to relate to their stories and talk about the human benefits and the human stories behind this. I think you're selling, anyone that says, “Well, this is my style, and that's all there is to it,” they are selling themselves short. They can be much more effective if they capitalize on their strengths but also learn to flex toward the style of others to foster that relationship. That is where the social intelligence comes into play. My emotional intelligence, I can manage and understand my own emotions, but to be able to work effectively with you or with others, I have to understand where you're coming from, what's important to you, and how can I deliver some of that for you so that you can then in turn help me deliver what I want to deliver? Hugh: I'm going to throw it to Russ because he is good at this flex. He has to flex every week at 2:00 when I show up. He has to accommodate my age and mental condition very often. Scot: Oh, look at him. Hugh: He thought he was going to get by without me pulling that card. Russell: We're not even halfway through the broadcast, and we have fallen onto that again. You know, we're going to get that. Flexibility is really the key. When you're building relationships, you develop a little bit of a compass for that sort of thing over time. The conversations we have really in the nonprofit world is about what's important to the person we're talking to. We can kind of get a gauge and a feel for that. It's really going with the flow because you're relating to each person individually. There is no good one-size-fits-all formula for dealing with people, even when we have a lot of wonderful stuff that we talked about. Another thing we haven't really talked about is the Strengths Finder. There was another inventory I found called an IPIP. It was really interesting. I have to look for that. That was a battery that took about a half hour. Told me a lot of things about whether I was altruistic, and it had about eight or ten other areas measuring emotionally and mentally. These are ways to learn about yourself. One thing I did for myself was to actually email and send letters to some people who know me really well to find out what they thought I did well and where I could use a little bit of help. Other people are a lot more, that get used to dealing with us, they can find our superpowers and our kryptonite and lay it out. Sometimes we are blind to that stuff. We don't even know what we know, and we don't know what we don't know. Of course, if I just had a blanket age/mental condition or something like that, that's not going to work with new people. The people who have known you for a while are just going to go, “Oh no, not again.” Hugh: That's an excuse. As you're bringing that up, Russ, I'm thinking there is a comradery/collaboration/encouragement that sometimes happens around people's learning styles. I hope you got some affirmations from the people you emailed, I'm sure you did, about your skills and your talents and your presence in the world. You got some good things, I'm sure. Russell: Well, yeah, but there were a couple that were watching this show. They said for the age that you are, your mental condition ought to be a little better. I won't say which people said that. This other battery I was talking about, I just had that in front of me. It's called an IPIP Ennionarrative. I found this. It was developed by a gentleman at Penn State University. The areas it measures are Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism (meaning are you neurotic), and Openness. It's really interesting. It's worth taking a little bit of time. It can be a little wordy. I had to go through it and pull some stuff out of the summary. It's really good.   Hugh: Seems like a song. Russell: I will grab the URL and drop it in there. Hugh: Do you have a question brewing for our guest today? Russell: I do. One of the things I was thinking about was when you walk into a business and you are starting to talk to people about things that matter to them, why is it important to find out what people want to get better at? Is that a currency you're finding that is left on the table? People walk in, and they walk away because they don't think there's any chance for them to grow. Scot: Give me a little bit more on that, Russ. In terms of, are you thinking about organizational growth? Are you thinking about personal growth? Russell: I'm thinking about personal growth because you can't always write a bigger check. People may or may not say out loud that what they want to do is gain more of a skillset. What sort of questions do you ask to gauge whether or not that something that is really important to them?   Scot: I tend to do as much homework up front as I can in terms of learning the person's organization and even learning about the person themselves. Websites like LinkedIn and others are very useful to do some homework ahead of time. But then when we're meeting, especially for the first time, there was a great book, and I don't know if I have it with me today or not. There is a great coaching book that I found has a very strong reference. I'll have to grab the title for you. It is something along the lines of Say Less, Ask More Questions, and Change the Way You Lead the Rest of Your Life. I might have it in my briefcase off to the side here because I was just using it with a client. The approach in that book is really just spending some time with someone and finding out what's going on in their life right now. Is it content- or project-specific? Is it people issues, people challenges, human interactions? Or is it any type of a pattern within their organization? So what's really happening in their world that they would like to see some more success around? Coaching them along the lines of, “All right, so what have we tried so far? What's keeping you up at night about this particular topic?” Start to get them to think about those challenges that they're having and addressing them in a safe environment. Hugh, you do a lot of coaching. To me, the real kicker is creating a safe environment for people to feel vulnerable with you a little bit or safe enough to feel vulnerable to say, “This particular aspect of my nonprofit or my working with the board or this one board member I'm having an issue with,” just getting them comfortable enough to share that with you so that you can ask them some more questions or get them thinking about a more productive approach. What have you found there? Hugh: Absolutely. As you're talking, it's not only that I coach the leader, but I coach the leader on coaching. I don't know who said this, but they said that coaching is 90% listening, and the other 10% is mostly listening. I find that leaders primarily don't know the skills they need to lead. They think it's push to do this, and the conductor knows it's pull. Here's where it's going. You want to hold that up. Scot: Can I share this? Hugh: We'll put it in the podcast notes. Scot: One of the most useful coaching resources. I have kind of outlined this book. I share it with different classes that I go to. It's The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More & Change the Way You Lead Forever by Michael Stanier. Really useful. Just like seven or eight core questions that you help the other person think about. I have actually used this with nonprofit leaders. I have used it with team leaders. I have actually used it with my kids, getting them to think about an issue that is challenging them, whether it is around an academic subject, a relationship with someone in school. Hugh: It's really universal principles. Scot: It absolutely is. The first question, here is my little outline of the book itself. The first question it gets you to think about: Hugh, in relationship to this topic we're talking about, what's on your mind? It starts out as broad as that. From there, you figure out if it's a content issue, a people issue, a pattern issue. From there, take them down the coaching path. Hugh: Start easy. How many sleeves in the shirt? Build a confidence and rapport. Underneath leadership is relationship. You build trust and relationship before you can really impact anybody. Actually you said you use this with your corporate leaders and profit leaders. It's probably more difficult in the nonprofit arena. How we do anything is how we do everything. I have found in the coaching clinic I have developed over the years with my corporate leaders—I do it with my teams who have teams under them—then we have a debriefing, and they'll say, “I worked these listening things with my clients, and they liked it.” They were able to provide more data when I listened than when I talked. One guy said, “Oh, my wife really liked this when I tried it at home.” Leadership is multi-faceted, but the top of leadership skills and the top of under-utilized leadership skills is listening. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a good reason. Russ, you're a man with an extensive library. Is that a book you're aware of? Russell: That's a great book. I have it on Kindle with Audible. I forgot about that. It's in my library. Kindle has been very bad for my checking account. I compile stuff much faster than I read it. I read that book maybe about a year or a year and a half ago. I have it on Audible. It's something I need to revisit. This was the thing I was thinking. The best leaders are lifelong learners. They always got a book in their hand. They find a way to do things. They use tools like Blinkist.com, which is a service of book summaries. They have Blinks that are 12-16 minutes long, where they summarize a book and give you all of the points. You can download the points that you get in a Word document on your Kindle. The point is really it's this continuous learning. Some people have an interest in that. Those are people you really want to look for. They may not have all the knowledge you want them to have, but if you can find one of these people that just has that addiction, passion, whatever you want to call it for learning and improving themselves, that's really what I have considered to be the third step to building a high-performance nonprofit. Staying on track, measuring everything you do, continuous improvement. What better way for an organization to improve than to have your people improve? As they do more, you become more. Scot: Russell, do you find that's even more important in the nonprofit world from a hiring perspective? Maybe finding those folks that are the lifelong learners that thrive on picking up new skills and new knowledge and applying it to their nonprofit world versus coming in with X number of years of pertinent experience. Russell: The way that I view it, and it really doesn't matter what sort of organization you're running, is it's great to have people that have a high level of skill and a lot of knowledge. But you get somebody that comes in and tells me, “Well, I know everything you need to know. I'm going to be checking to make sure my wallet is still in my pocket.” Hugh: That reminds me. Russell: Hugh would never do that. He will admit to knowing a thing or two about a thing or two like me, but this everything, no. The people to help you get the results dig that talent out of you because my business model is you are more than meets the eye. I use that in my relation to other people because they got a lot of juice already there. They're already working with a certain audience, and it's kind of like they know what they're trying to get at. Sometimes we have to get the ideas out of people. I've got a great guy, Darrell Stern, who I did a Stern Storming session with. He says, “You got a lot of content, but this is a mess. We got to pull all of this together.” He is helping me do that. Hugh: He can help you clean that up. Russell: The genius is all there; it's just pulling it all together and asking the right questions. Hugh: Notice he said learnin'. That's Southern, Russ. You had a comment here. Scot: What you're saying just totally aligns with how I think about engagement, as we started our conversation today. Especially in the nonprofit world, there are three ways or three avenues to really let people flourish, like you're saying. If we can find the right people that we can unlock their potential in a nonprofit leadership role, it's about making sure that we find the people that their heart, or their emotion, is aligned with the mission and the vision of the nonprofit that we're working in. Do they get juiced up and jazzed up about doing this work in this nonprofit field? I'm working with a young lady now that did fantastic marketing efforts for a chapter of a nonprofit that is a national nonprofit, very large. She just made a move recently within the last year to a small nonprofit in town that has to do with the arts. You can tell just by looking at her face and talking to her that she is so jazzed up. She loved her old job, but she is so jazzed up about working for this arts academy that nothing is going to stop her from getting to work and giving it 110% every day. Her heart is engaged with the organization and the work she is doing. The other aspect is how do you get the best out of people's minds? No one brain in the room is as smart as everyone in the room. How do you create as a nonprofit leader a culture where everyone's input is valued? We get the best of the diversity of thought from everyone on the team, no matter what our role happens to be in the organization. Engage my heart, engage my head, engage my brain, and allow me, no matter what my role or responsibility, to flourish and to provide my ideas on how we can serve our customer, our community needs. Lastly, let me roll up my sleeves and do it again, a nice broad job description where I can help out in a lot of different ways. Now that you got my ideas, let me loose and let me go do it. I think that's one of the things that really comes down to, especially in the nonprofit world, how we engage our workforce is engaging their hearts, engaging their heads and their minds, and engaging their hands. That comes from another great book I can reference that I have used in the past around this. It's a book by Julie, and I don't know the pronunciation of her last name. It's Gebauer. And Don Lowman. They have come up with a book called Closing the Engagement Gap. They talk about these three elements of engagement with your heart, your head, and your hands. I found it to be a terrific resource. I found it to be true. People generally don't wake up on a Monday morning going, “I wonder how I can sluff off today and not engage at work.” They are looking to have a good day, to have a good week. Do that by providing opportunities. Like you were saying, know your people. Know what makes them tick. Let them loose. Hugh: What we know as a conductor is the orchestra or choir gives you what they see. We influence them. It's a reflection of the leader. As you're talking about that, part of the work that you and Russ and I do with these nonprofit leaders is a work of encouragement and empowerment for them to then be the influencer. The burnout rate is 45%, and 75% of nonprofit leaders are looking at the exit door because they want to get out. There are things that we do as leaders that have negative consequences. Part of this we own. Part of what we do, Russ and Hugh and Scot, Scot with one “t,” he is saving up for the other “t.” Scot: It's on layaway. Hugh: Scot would be my heritage. I'm a Scot. Part of what we do is encourage leaders to come out of their, I guess it's blind spots. We are trapped in, This is how we do things, when really it's not how we do things. Speak to that a minute. How do we work as a catalyst for leaders to rethink how they lead, to reinvent themselves, to build their capacity to get past some of those barriers? Scot: I think personally my experience is, and Russell, you touched on this before, is it's being willing to be flexible and using our ears and our mouth in that ratio. If I truly am going to approach the world as a servant leader, I am here to serve not only my customer, but I am here to serve my team. It's a little bit easier for me to slow down and listen to others' ideas and to see, especially bringing in talent from outside the organization that might be able to look at things with a fresh lens. If I am a strong Dominant leader, not that I can't listen and get ideas from others, it's just going to take a little more energy for me to do that. I am going to have to consciously and purposefully slow down and listen, and really that is where maybe we can use some other people to facilitate us through that process, to say, “All right. I know the ideas I have in my head. I want to make sure I pull the team into this discussion. So maybe I need to have a third party or someone on my team facilitate that session to get ideas from others, whether it's something as simple as writing on Post-It notes and slapping them up on a wall or other ways.” That is the one of the things I found in some nonprofits is that the leader has been there a while, they can be ingrained in how things have always been done. It takes a strong leader to take a step back, to say, “All right, what are some of the potential improvements that you guys see on a daily basis?” Part of my background was a GE Six Sigma Master black belt. I am an HR guy. I am not a statistics guy. Even going through some of those learnings with Six Sigma made the little bit of hair I had on the back of my neck stand up and give me the chills sometimes. It was good learning. I pushed myself forward. Became a master black belt within the organization. I got to coach a lot of process improvement projects and change leadership projects. One of the things that I found is that if you allow the people that are working on the process every day to then share in the process of continuous improvement like you were talking about before, that is the kicker. If you create, again creating the environment where people feel safe to go, “This could be done better.” The way I always approach Six Sigma process and work was talking with the front line associates and asking them what are the headaches that get in the way of you having a good day? Where does the process break down? Where is there rework? Where are there delays? Where is the communication breakdown between our donors and us? Where is the breakdown in communication between community efforts, what we're doing and the community leadership? Everything we do is a process in one way or another. How do we allow the people that are doing the work every day to give us the feedback on where things can get better? What I found is they are open to that instead of, “You need to fix X, Y, and Z,” “Where are your headaches?” Let's allow them to get rid of their headaches and support them in getting rid of their headaches every single day. That is when the lightbulbs, I worked with GE, it had to be a GE lightbulb, that is when the lightbulbs go off above people's heads. I get to get rid of my headaches. Thank you. That's just continuous improvement. Hugh: Wow. I like to teach continuing improvement as personal growth. We never stop there. What we bring to the table is a paradigm shift for people. Russ, you got a question brewing. This guy has a lot of answers. He obviously has a lot of in-depth experience. There is a lot. We bring the synergy. SynerVision is the synergy of the common vision. There is a lot of what you say embedded in what we do. It's the Pull leadership. It's creating the space for people to function up. We as leaders tend to overfunction, and the reciprocity is underfunctioning for the teams. Often we create the problems ourselves because that's all we know. We think the boss, which is double SOB spelled backwards, we think the boss who tells- Scot: I gotta steal that. I love it. Hugh: I stole it. It doesn't work today. People don't want to be told what to do, no matter which generation. We want to blame the millennials. I'm a boomer, and I don't want to be told what to do either. What I was thinking when you were talking is we lead from the authenticity of self, but we respect individuals in the community and their authenticity. We are aligned in the common purpose, the common thread. We are hitting on the last quarter of our interview; it's the last stretch. I want to make sure we hit the major themes. Russ, you've been brewing a hard question for our guest. He has a lot of knowledge and experience. What are you thinking you want to ask him? Russell: I'm thinking that good leaders build good leaders. What are some of the tools that you give your clients to help them do that or to shift their thinking in that direction? Scot: Good. First and foremost, Russell, I think that getting to know your people is absolutely critical. It can be something as simple as what is your favorite candy bar? So that you can leave that on their desk on a Friday afternoon, thanking them for what they did this week. You made a great impact on our organization or our customer or our team. Getting to know them and taking the time to know what their personal aspirations are. Development and advancement can mean different things to different people. I may want to stay in my current role and go deeper and deeper and deeper. Maybe I am looking to go to some conferences this year, or maybe I am looking to speak on a panel discussion, or maybe I am looking to do some research on a white paper and develop a white paper on a topic that is important to our organization or industry. I have to get to know that person to understand what development and developing them as a leader looks like. Secondly, I have to look for some opportunities. If I am a higher C in my DISC style, conscientious, always looking at things from a quality and accuracy perspective, sometimes high C's will struggle with delegating responsibilities to others and growing other people around them. Hugh, help me out here. If you want it done right? Hugh: Do it yourself. Scot: That can be a struggle for delegation and growing other people. If I am not going to let go of something, how am I going to let you do it and develop? Hugh: That's the hardest thing I see for leaders to do. We have an idea, especially founders of nonprofits, of, This is the way it's supposed to go, so I am going to do it. We alienate people because we haven't given them the chance to use their passion. That's why they are here. Scot: Exactly. Hugh: We have this other fallacy as nonprofit leaders that we don't want to ask too much of volunteers. That's why they are there. Ask them. They will tell you if they can do it or not. But in delegation, you're right. That is so hard. That is so hard. I teach it. You teach it. I bet it's hard for you, too. We have this passion for it; however, we are robbing a volunteer of an opportunity to connect their passion and be a cheerleader for what we're doing. That was pretty good, Russ. Russell: The other thing. I have a question that I would put into a leader's head that might come from that place. It's ask yourself: How can I get more done and get it done better so that it's less work for me but we improve? How can I make this all better and have to not work as hard to make it better? Scot: Absolutely. One of the things to get to that point is I talk to managers when I'm coaching them and I say, “If you have a magic wand, what would be three things you would wave your magic wand to get off your desk right now today? Boom. Done. Don't do it anymore.” They have those ideas in the back of their minds. How can you have someone else? First of all, does it have to get done? If it does, great, but who else can do it? How can that be a growth opportunity for someone else in your organization? Be it a volunteer or be it someone on the staff or someone who is looking to move up in the organization. Looking at everything that's on my plate, how can I use what I'm doing now to develop someone else in the organization? That's a great way to inspire people, a great way to involve people, a great way to become more effective as a leader. There is another book by a guy with the name of Scott Eblin. He has two T's in his name. He is full-fledged Scott. Scott Eblin. The book is called The Next Level. What Eblin talks about is as you are moving up in the organization, and it can be micro-steps or macro-steps, but as you are moving up in the organization, what are those things you need to let go of? High D's struggle with that. High S's struggle with that because a high S likes to be an expert in what they do and focus on doing one or two things but do them well. High C's really struggle with that. How do you not only develop yourself, but develop others in your organization as you are moving up through the different levels? Hugh: We as a conductor know that we are only as good as the people around us. It's about creating the space for people to function at a higher level. We do shoot ourselves in the foot more often. Totally unaware of it. Scot: Many cases. Hugh: Conflict is going to happen. It's the sign of energy. We don't need to make it worse. We don't need to make it destructive. Sometimes we do as leaders by our lack of clarity or inconsistency in directions and overfunctioning do set up some conflict. Then we don't know what to do about it. We ignore it and it gets worse. Scot: I would have- When I was internal, now I help people from an external perspective. When I was internal, I would get a lot of managers calling me for team building. “Scot, please come help us do some team building. We are just not working right.” Russell and Hugh, you have probably come across this model before, but maybe other leaders haven't heard of it yet. It's called GRPI. The G is Goals. Do we have clarity and agreement on what the goals are? It's around clarity and agreement. The R is around the Roles. Do we have the right roles? Do we have the right organizational structure set up? Is there role clarity between what we are doing to reach those goals? I am not supposed to do that. Hugh is supposed to do that. Hugh is saying that is Russell's job. Now all of a sudden, we have this ehh going on on the team. P is around Process. Do we have the right processes in place? Russell, I don't know if you have found this to be true, but I have always found there are three versions of every process map. There is the current process map that we have. There is the real process, as it really works, other than what's going on in the process map. Then there is the third version, which is the future version of how it should ideally work. Do we have our ducks in a row? Are we heading toward that third version of the process map? Clarity and agreement on the goals, the roles, and the processes. I in GRPI is the interpersonal Issues. What I find is that teams are not functioning well when we have that lack of clarity around the goals, the roles, and the process. It's almost like a gift with purchase. You get something else. If you don't have clarity and agreement on goals, roles, and process, you will automatically have interpersonal issues. And that's what matters. You always come to us and say you need team building. You don't need team building. You need to clear up goals, roles, and process. Hugh: Sometimes team building is a game that is a copout. Connect them to something substantial. What is it that a frustrated nonprofit leader needs to know? What would be your tip for that leader? Not just to go to the next step, but to the top of the rungs. You get the parting thought. Scot, this has been a lot of good information today. I am going to give you the last- What do you want to leave people with? Scot: I would say as a closing thought today as a nonprofit leader, focus on getting a GRPI. We say get a grip. Get a GRPI. That is the one thing that can truly bring you and your team to a higher level. Make sure that you and the whole team have clarity on what your goals are for the year. People always say, “Focus on SMART goals.” I found that there is a gentleman out there, Brendon Bouchard. Bouchard often talks about making sure that we have DUMB goals as well. DUMB starts with D. D is all about your Dream. What is the dream of your nonprofit? Why are you here, your mission and your vision? Start with the dream. Make sure that people understand what those goals are. Listen to, engage people. Know them and grow them and engage them in the process so that they can help you determine the best processes and where they can be improved and what the right goals are. Who should be doing what in the organization? There is always an opportunity to review those job descriptions and make them work. What should that job look like 12 months from now, 24 months from now as your nonprofit organization continues to evolve? Making sure you have the right team in the organization. If you don't have the right talent, you're not doing yourself a favor, you're not doing that person in the wrong slot a favor. Work with your local HR professionals that can help you on that side of the equation. Get the right people in your organization that have the heart and the passion to do the work that you're doing. Empower them to figure out what the right roles and processes are to reach your goal. Hugh: That is good stuff. That is good stuff. Russ, thanks for good stuff today. Scot, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us on The Nonprofit Exchange. Scot: It's been a pleasure.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(43:52) Romal Tune is the son of a drug-addicted single parent mother. He found his way out of poverty and graduated from Howard University and Duke School of Divinity. He became a minister, a sought-after speaker, and social entrepreneur. Outwardly, he was successful but inside he was battling the trauma and emotional brokenness caused by his upbringing. After reconciling with his mother, she died of lung cancer. Romal then endured his second divorce. Questioning his faith and will to live, he made a choice to examine his life and seek counseling. In his book titled Love Is An Inside Job, he shares his process of applying therapy and faith to anger, shame, and self-doubt. No longer carrying the emotional weight, he now empowers others to stop living a life hindered by the past by helping them heal their stories. Romal is now a global leader who takes individuals and institutions from setbacks to success by using the power of story. If you don’t have time to listen to the entire episode or if you hear something that you like but don’t have time to write it down, be sure to grab your free copy of the Action Plan from this episode-- as well as get access to action plans from EVERY episode-- at JimHarshawJr.com/Action/. Let's connect: Website | Facebook | Twitter About Your Host Jim Harshaw My name is Jim Harshaw. And I know where you’re at. You’re working hard and qualified for what you do but you aren’t getting what you want. You have plans on getting to the C-suite or launching a business but ultimate success seems as far away today as ever. You’re at the right place because you can get there from here. And I can help. Who I Am I’m a speaker, coach, and former Division I All-American wrestler that helps motivated former athletes to reach their full potential by getting clarity on what they really want and taking aggressive action to lead their ideal life not just despite their prior failures but because of them. I’m a husband and father of four. And I’m a serial entrepreneur. I’ve launched multiple successful businesses as well as the obligatory failed one. I’ve been the executive director of a non-profit and have raised millions of dollars. I’ve worked in sales. I’ve even been a Division I head coach. While I was born in a blue-collar home I have spent my life surrounded by Olympians, CEO’s and millionaires. Jim Rohn said, “You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.” I’ve been lucky. I’ve learned the habits of successful people and guess what. You’re just like them. I know because I know your type. You’re programmed for hard work, which is a prerequisite for success, but you’ve never been shown how to use what you know to create the life you want with the tools you have. I will show you how. Why You Are Here You've worked hard to achieve greatness. You’ve set goals and maybe even set records. You’ve definitely failed and you’ve at some point found yourself questioning if you were on the right track. You need to understand this: You are far more prepared to succeed than those who’ve not tried, competed, struggled and overcome like you have. That’s the value of your education as someone who aims high. You are prepared to be as successful as your wildest dreams will allow. Here I will teach you, with the help of brilliant minds that have been shaped by failure, struggle, and adversity, to be who you want to be. I sense that you want this because you have read this far. To take the next step today, click here. FOLLOW JIM Website | Facebook | Twitter

Romal Tune:What Happens When Men Heal? The Impact of Life, Leadership, and Legacy!   Romal Tune is committed to this five-word sentence: “Help the hurting find healing.” He equips people to heal the wounds of their past, bravely offering his own journey as a case study of raw transparency and refreshing honesty. Romal is dedicated to helping others overcome shame, self-doubt, and self-sabotage and discover a new path to wholeness. This commitment is rooted in the Belief that whole people comprise communities that are economically viable, emotionally healthy, and socially responsible. As a speaker, seminar leader and author, Romal guides audienceces to discover and embrace their unique stories. He is a global leader who equips individuals, organizations and institutions to recover from setbacks and achieve success by acknowledging the past embracing the future. For more information go to https://RomalTune.com https://clerestoryworks.org   Transcript of the Interview with Romal Tune   Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, welcome. Russell Dennis: Greetings. Happy Tuesday. Hugh: Russell David Dennis, co-host every week. We broadcast live on Tuesdays at 2 pm on Facebook. We record for the podcast, which you can find on iTunes or anywhere you find podcasts. Oh my goodness, I heard this guy last Saturday. It was amazing. He was a keynote speaker at the Methodist Conference in Virginia. It was a whole conference about race, diversity, and how to rethink how we relate to each other. I was so impressed with him that I called him up and asked him to be on the podcast. He said yes. Here we are. Romal Tune, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Romal Tune: Thanks for having me on. It's good to be with you guys. Hugh: Did I say your name right? Romal: You did. Hugh: It has a really neat ring to it, Romal. We don't make a practice of reading long, boring introductions. We like for our guests to introduce themselves. Tell us about yourself, your background, what's brought you here, basically your story. What's your passion? Romal: My passion is I am a storyteller. I love to tell stories of redemption. That comes out of my own life experiences growing up in northern California in the bay area. I lived in San Francisco and throughout the bay area. Inner city kid. Life challenges. Mom was a substance abuser and had some challenges with alcohol and addiction. But that wasn't her whole story. Prior to that, she worked in the world of banking. Oddly enough, her success led her into addiction. We lost everything by the time I was in middle school. Went to live with my grandparents. At the age of 16, I moved to New Jersey and lived with my dad until I graduated high school. Signed up in the army. Desert Storm '88-'92. Accepted to Howard University. Went to Howard from '92-'96. Plan was to go to medical school. After I graduated from Howard, I was preparing to take the MCAT and working as a clinical research associate on phase 3 pharmaceutical studies. Working in a church. Volunteering and teaching some Bible studies. Didn't grow up in the church. I ended up in the church simply because I had a girlfriend who went to church. She said, “If you want to be with me, you have to go to church.” I said, “Okay, praise the Lord, whatever it takes.” Had a passion for it. Realized one day sitting at my desk at a pharmaceutical company, phase 3 studies, I had a Bible study lesson and realized I loved the teaching and I probably would have been a really good doctor, but I wanted to go into ministry. I went to Duke University for graduate school and got a degree in religion. Never really worked in a church full-time. About 12 years ago, I started my own consulting company doing strategy and public relations in a variety of settings from corporate to large nonprofits, political campaigns, doing strategy and faith community strategy. Wrote a book four years ago. That book told my story of my journeys and challenges in the inner city and how I overcame them. Most recently, I wrote another book entitled Love is an Inside Job: Getting Vulnerable with God. There it is, Hugh is holding it up. That book is really about a journey of a life of fulfillment through the lens of therapy and faith. It deals with vulnerability. I always tell people, if you know Brene Brown, I am Brother Brown. I talk about my journey and the journeys of others that have had to overcome life challenges to find a deeper sense of meaning, fulfillment, and the very real way, peace of mind that is rooted and healing in your story, having a clearer sense of who you really are in the world, and letting everything flow from the inside out so that your success is actually an outward expression of internal wholeness rather than expecting those things outside of you to make you feel whole. I learned the hard way that it doesn't work. Everything flows from the inside out. Hugh: That is amazing. You studied with Will Willimon at Duke, didn't you? Romal: I did have a class with Will Willimon, yes. Hugh: He has been a guest on this podcast. As you might imagine, he had some profound things to say. You had an amazing story about writing a letter to Richard Rohr, who is quite the influencer. He gave you time and spent the day with you. Is that right? Romal: This was even before I knew I was going to have a book coming out. I did not have a book deal at the time. I came across a friend on social media who posted a Rohr quote about daily meditations. It was powerful. I started following him, getting those meditations via email every night. Some friends were planning a retreat with Richard. I didn't know him. They were asking me for some advice around strategy. I said, “Here is the deal. I will help you with strategy free of charge if you somehow connect me with Richard Rohr. I am a big fan. I have been reading his books. I get his meditations.” They couldn't guarantee it. He had been ill at the time, battling prostate cancer. They introduced me to his executive director via email. I wrote a letter. He gave it to Richard. Literally, I would say two days before Christmas, Richard Rohr emailed me himself and said, “Hey, I am recovering from prostate cancer. I am feeling better. I have been reading the letters. Yours is the first one I read. We can do a call if that's what you'd like, or if you have time, you can come and I will spend the day with you here in New Mexico.” I did that. I booked the ticket. We identified a day, and I spent a full day from 9 in the morning until about 8 at night just hanging out with Richard Rohr, asking questions. He asked me a lot of questions. Oddly enough, some of his questions were specifically around race, and mine were around meditation and understanding my story through the lens of healing and redemption. We started building a friendship. We stay in touch quite regularly. When Love is an Inside Job was ready to come out, I asked him to write an endorsement, so you will see it in the book. Bob Goff is in there and Parker Palmer. People I have been fortunate enough to meet along the way. Hugh: Richard Rohr says, “This book fully engages you from the very first page with deep humanity, dear honesty, and yes, vulnerability.” Having that kind of quote from Richard Rohr is a big deal. If people listening to this podcast don't know the name Richard Rohr, he is a person who will help you shift your paradigm and rethink your basic tenets of faith and your journey will be empowered in a very different way. Romal, I will help you with your strategy if you will introduce me to Richard Rohr. Romal: Deal. Hugh: My wife couldn't put this book down. It's on my queue. I have two ahead of it. Romal: I don't know who those other two books are. Hugh: They are other friends. I do have a lot of author friends. I have already read it because she reads it to me. She is not reading anything else. She is finishing your book. It is profound. We talked about Richard Rohr shifting the paradigm. When I heard you speak, you were on for two and a half hours. Romal: Two hours you had to endure me talking. Hugh: It went by fast. It went by fast. Romal: That's called a nap, Hugh. Hugh: I took notes. You helped us look at things in a different light. Go backwards a little bit. You pivoted, when your girlfriend said, “If you want to see me, you have to go to church.” You studied for Bible study. You were digging into the scripture. You didn't grow up with this tradition. In a way, you have a way of seeing this in a very fresh light. What was the biggest pivot for you to go from where you were to where you are? Romal: There have been multiple shifts and pivots along the way. I think the first was with church, it gave me the first opportunity to shift my narrative and find a new way of being in the world. Much of my story and my identity in terms of who I believed I could become in the world, my capabilities, were shaped by my experiences growing up in a very challenging environment, which created some self-doubt, some insecurities, some uncertainty about the direction of life. Becoming a follower of Jesus in the context of a Christian community gave me some other people to be around to look at how different their lives were from mine and how their faith played a role in their lives. I was able to then look at how might my faith propel me in different directions and shape a new narrative for me? That was the first pivot. For many people, when they come into the church like I did, you not only begin to have a deeper relationship with God and your faith, but you also at the same time are learning how to do church. It's like even in the workplace, you go in, you are selected for a specific task, but you are also learning the culture of that environment and what it looks like to succeed there. In the church world, you are also learning what it is like to succeed in church, to be okay there, where to sit, where not to sit, what things you can do, what things you can't do, how to schedule a meeting room and the politics of space. I learned how to do church in the midst of growing my faith and then realized that in that process, I was also needing to suppress a part of my identity in terms of my upbringing and challenges I faced that were not welcomed in the church, at least the kind of church I was in. It was more based on who you are now rather than the story that brought you here. Those things play out in the workplace, too. We are oftentimes conditioned to leave certain parts of us at home so that we can function at a high level, at least at what we think is a high level in that context, not realizing the only way to truly function at a high level is to bring all of you into context, in the workplace or in the church, because nothing is wasted. There is wisdom in your story. The next pivot was actually withdrawing from church. There is a chapter in the book where it says in order to save my faith, I had to lose my religion. To draw closer to God required retracting from the things that I thought were the structured boundaries of who God could and could not be for me, which were some of the social norms of church rather than the actual Biblical narrative of how God uses all of your story and can redeem it. There is power in your broken places that can help heal others. Spending that time alone with friends who were of the faith, who were still in church, I was able to redefine myself based on a deeper relationship with God that had more room than the walls of the church. The next iteration is what I call the altar call, the return back to the community within the context of the congregation. But now bringing all of me into that context. Hugh: Wow. We are speaking to leaders out there who are running what we reframe the popular name is “nonprofit.” We are the only industry in the world who defines ourselves by what we are not. We are really a social profit. We are a social benefit. We are a tax-exempt charity. We are a business that has special rules and provides impact for people's lives. Lots of things that we are. I experience a whole lot of leaders that define themselves by the damage of their past. They're limited because of their family heritage. You met my wife, Leigh Anne Taylor. Just before you left, she got a stack of your books. Romal: Thank her again. Hugh: They will be put to good use, I'm sure. We have been studying the work of Murray Bowen. It's learning about our family of origin, but it's not to blame. It's to understand ourselves. When I listen to you talk about your story, it's been a remarkable pivot for you not being bound by the past. James Allen wrote this book years ago called As a Man Thinketh. In there, reframing the language, he said people want to change their circumstances but are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound. I am tracking this as vulnerability. Brene Brown has been out there and visible. In my world of conducting, James Jordan has a book out called The Musician's Soul. He says you cannot make effective music on a podium until you can be vulnerable as a leader in front of that ensemble. What thought do you have for leaders breaking through some of those limits, those impressions of the past, to become vulnerable? How will that benefit their leadership? Romal: First, with your statement around nonprofits, as a friend of mine likes to say, instead of nonprofits, how about we use language like “for-purpose?” It is far more empowering. Your for-purpose organization. When it comes to leaders in the nonprofit sector, presidents and executive leadership teams, and even corporate in the same way, everyone has a story. Obviously, my journey is not like yours. But we all have stories that have shaped our lives. People tend to stay away from the wounded places because they still hurt, not realizing that by revisiting those stories that are sometimes uncomfortable, there is a way to look at them to see how they have shaped you and continue to show up in your thinking, your behavior, your beliefs, your interactions, so that you can take back from that past experience what it took from you, the confidence, the certainty, the self-awareness. Those experiences are part of your life, but they don't get to define the rest of your life. When you do the work as a leader, what you are in essence doing is turning a wound into a scar. The scar is the evidence of healing. People don't like dealing with their wounded places, and we don't like them to do it either because when you are wounded, you bleed all over people. That is not helpful. But a scar is evidence of healing. That scar, when you do the work, gives you a deeper sense of empathy as a leader with the people you are engaging. It's not in a sense just the work of getting people to perform a task, but it's being able to empathize with their experience, their journey, their feelings in a way that allows you to connect such that they want to be a part of your team and want to be guided and led by you because you understand them as a person. You do not see them simply as a person who performs a task or makes a product. Vulnerability for the leader is not a sign of weakness. Vulnerability requires courage, transparency, and authenticity. As a leader, when you think about the great leaders of our generations, they have been vulnerable in a way that they have been able to articulate a story about themselves and others that people can see themselves as part of a deeper narrative, a bigger vision. You cannot cultivate deep vision without vulnerability. Why? Because vulnerability says that I cannot do it myself. I am not capable. I am finite. I need to surrender my understandings of who I am to something bigger than me. That requires vulnerability to admit that this requires more than me. I need you to get this done. There is a place we can go together, but I need you to help create that vision. That requires some vulnerability and some empathy. Hugh: Oh my goodness. Russell, you see why I love this guy. He just has great stuff to share. What are you thinking over there in Denver? Russell: There are a lot of things in there. A lot of problems that we have today hinge on this notion of separation. We think we are separate from each other. We are separate from God. We are out there on this island by ourselves. This notion that whatever we manifest in our lives, we have to come up with the power to do that, is ego-based. It keeps us falling short because what we do when we are in our natural state and flow is we let things be manifested through us by being connected with that power out there, with that source. I am not the source. When I rely on the source and let the source flow through me, all sorts of remarkable things can happen. Everything starts on the inside. Our outside results are a culmination of what is going on on the inside. When you come to a place where you figure that out, it's tough because most of us have this thing called ego. There is this investment in looking good, no matter how things may be going. It could all be going to crap, but as long as I look good… It's a mistake and assumption to operate in that way. We don't have to be perfect. We don't have to come up with everything. What a leader does is inspire vision in people and bring people along, knows exactly what he/she does not have and goes out and gets that. To build that vision and to make things come to fruition. A lot of times, there is this inner resistance. That is human; that is natural. When my inner resistance is up on anything, that is a signal to me that I want to change how I look at it. Hugh: The vulnerability thing is key, isn't it, Romal? Romal: It is indeed because when we talk about vision, I think a solid, healthy leader first has a healthy vision for his/her life. You can't take people where you haven't been or at least are on the journey to yourself. To the whole notion of people wanting to have the appearance of life is well and things are going well, I was doing that. I was making a significant amount of money, and I could check all the boxes from education, graduate student body president, magna cum laude, all that stuff, two homes, fancy cars, able to travel. I had the appearance of a good life, but there was this internal angst that I still lacked peace of mind. That was simply because I was under the assumption that if I attained enough and purchased enough and had enough, I would eventually feel like I am enough. The problem is that that is a leaky bucket approach. The wound was internal. In order to feel like enough, I had to believe that for myself, that nothing outside of me could produce that in me. As the book says, it was an inside job. I had to deal with those places in me that felt incomplete and deal with why did I feel like I wasn't enough yet? What was going on with me? When I looked around me, I should have been feeling pretty awesome about myself and about life because on the surface, things looked great. I had to realize that the pursuit of success did not deliver on the promise. I thought the promise was I will have joy and happiness. Happiness was temporary. You buy a new car until the car needs to go to the shop. You buy a new house. You're happy until some plumbing breaks. I wanted joy. I wanted a state of being that no matter what my environment and circumstances, I could say I loved my life. I was at a place where I could not make that statement honestly. I yearned for the ability to love my life no matter what. I wanted to put away the façade. That required doing the inner work. I found that in doing it, I feel lighter. I can appreciate life. I can look around me and be fully present, not only to the life I am living, but also to the people who are in it. I can sit in meetings and not just wait for my turn to speak, but be fully present and listen and ask questions and have an interest rather than just an agenda. I am free. To Russell's point, I have everything I need, even if it is not in front of me. It is all based upon how I see life and who I believe I am in the context of the world and what is acceptable, what is available to me.  To get to that place requires vulnerability. That vulnerability leads you into humility. If you are courageous enough to be honest with yourself about who you truly desire to be in the world and ask yourself what is keeping me from becoming my best self in my lifetime, then you come to the conclusion that I am what is keeping me from that. My beliefs about myself, the parts of my story I haven't dealt with. If I truly want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, let me be man or woman enough to let me confront those narratives and redeem what they took from me so I can live life to its fullest. Hugh: There is a trend now of big celebrities, like Jay Z, the Rock. There is a trend for people to openly talk about vulnerability. You made the pivot. Did you have a counselor or coach or therapist, somebody that was helping you reframe things to break through to feeling comfortable? You were on stage. I was in the second row watching you. You were open and vulnerable. You were transparent. The audience could really connect with you almost immediately. Was there someone working with you? It's hard to do it by ourselves, isn't it? Romal: I don't think we are capable of doing it by ourselves. I have a therapist. In fact, this past weekend we were in South Carolina together conducting a workshop. I created a workshop based on Love is an Inside Job called Clere-Conscience: Using the Past to Heal the Present. We conducted a four-hour workshop on Saturday. Having a therapist, someone I can talk to, as a friend of mine says, she is a doctor, her therapist calls herself her compassionate witness. Having that compassionate witness in my life that I can be fully honest with after having trusted each other where I can tell him the whole truth without shame and judgment for the sake of guidance. Therapy helps. Every great leader I have ever talked to has a therapist. I tell people, especially in the faith community who shun therapy: If you broke your leg, you wouldn't simply say, “God knows my leg is broken. Heal my leg, God. I don't need to go to the doctor. You're God, and You can heal it.” That doesn't make good sense, and you probably wouldn't do that because you know something is required from you for that kind of healing. The same with our wounded places emotionally. We need help at times to help heal those things that we can't heal ourselves. It requires the same level of intention to identify a professional who can walk alongside you on a journey to becoming your best self. Hugh: The title that you suggested for this interview was men healing and how that impacts our leadership. Say a little more about what drove you to think of that title. Romal: When we were working on the book with my publisher, my editor made the comment that this is a book about healing men, and also as a book for the women who love them, simply because the book is written through the lens of my journey as a man and learning vulnerability and empathy and what love really is and expressing that and having healthy ways of affection and love through the lens of a man who is doing the work. There are stories about women and relationships and things of that sort. I believe that in some ways, when men are able to heal our stories, our beliefs about ourselves and about other people, we can now get rid of these false paradigms of what it means to be a man. I was just saying to a group of men over the weekend: We as men are rarely taught by the men who nurture us how to be happy. We are conditioned to be strong, stand on your own two feet, don't cry, be a man, be strong, carry the way, endure the burdens. A man is able to endure burdens and carry the weight. That is what men do. No one ever said, “Hey, Hugh, here is what it looks like to be a happy grown man. Here is what it likes to be a man who is full of joy and peace of mind.” We didn't get that. We were told these other things. Then what happens is you grow up, you get into a relationship with a woman, and she asks, “Tell me how you feel.” You don't know what to do with that. “I could eat?” You got nothing. You are not conditioned to talk about how you feel. As young men, that is not how we are nurtured. We can do away with that false paradigm that men don't have feelings of anxiety, fear, sadness, and doubt. We can get rid of that. It's okay to express those things. It doesn't make you less of a man, nor does it make you weak. It makes you smart enough to be a healthy man. That allows you to be in healthy relationships and to engage people in a healthy way without showing up with a façade that most people know is not the real truth anyway. Hugh: People say, “Man up, suck it up, deal with it.” We are this cement face. It's a major journey to be a whole person. For those of us who grew up with that paradigm. Russell, if you have a question for our guest, lay it on him. This is a good time to give him a hard question. Russell: There is this thing called a male ego that gets us into trouble. You described some of the problems that we have. I am wondering if that narrative is starting to change. Are more men actually starting to get it? This whole Superman thing is killing him. Is the dynamic starting to shift with more men looking at it and saying, “Okay, I need to do something different because I can't pick the world up on my shoulders here?” Do you see a movement in that direction? Do you see more change? Romal: Yes. The thing is, no one ever asks us to hold the world on our shoulders. We assume that is what men do. Rather than we can hold everything together as people living in community to bring about change or to live healthy lives, I think that there is a movement of sorts where people are really beginning to realize that these ideas that I had about identity and even ego have not served me well. They have not delivered on the promise. Aesthetically, when I look around, I have some things. But the thing I truly desire, this happiness, this joy, this sense of wholeness and fulfillment, who I was told to be in the world has not delivered that. And I am tired. I think more men and women are realizing they are tired. This game I have been playing, this mask I have been wearing, this armor I have been carrying is heavy. I want to lay it down so I can be free and whole. I am only getting to do this life thing once, and I want to leave unempty. I want to leave having become the best version of me I could possibly be in my lifetime. I want to live a life of meaning and fulfillment. That fulfillment means if I want to be filled with the essence of who I truly am in the world and let that flow from the inside out. That is why love is an inside job. I learned to love and value me. All I can see through the lens of that self-love is the love and value of others. Hugh: My wife bought a stack of your books. I am sure others did. There is discussion groups, especially with pastors. That is a unique position to be in. There is a lot of stress and assumptions, especially for male pastors, and women are helping change that paradigm. Another quote I like from James Allen's book is: We don't attract what we need; we attract what we are. Breaking through this vulnerability to this pattern of accepting our healing, it's not a wound, it's a scar, it's a strength. I want to hear two things. What are you hoping will happen when people rally around and study your book? Especially to men as leaders in the church. After you say that, what was your journey, your value? We write books for other people, but amazing things happen to us when writing the book. Romal: There are several layers of what I hope will happen as people read the book. My desire is they find themselves in the book and begin to look at their own stories and engage in the process of doing the work to become whole themselves, to be their best selves through the lens of faith and therapy. I wanted to show that these things are not contradictions. Therapy is a way of honoring your faith. My hope is that people will be courageous enough to embark on their own journey of healing, to begin a deeper dialogue around our sense of self-worth and identity around our stories and how our stories have shaped us and the ways that we can begin to take control of our stories and play the lead in our lives and then create a new way forward. Next year, my plan is to have a men's conference around emotional health and wellness with 1,000 men from across the country and host that here in Atlanta. We will be guided by breakout session and lead by therapists to deal with a whole host of issues. My Aha moment is in chapter seven, the chapter where it says “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” In January, my dad and I have not talked for ten years since my mom passed. My mom was free and clean of drugs for several years before she died of lung cancer. My dad came to her funeral. We didn't have a great relationship, he and I. In the course of writing the book and now being a father myself, my editor asked me to talk about the healing process and the relationship with my father. As I was writing, she sent me a note, “I can't use any of this.” I said, “Why not?” She said, “Because it reads like you are still angry. I need you to think about the relationship you have with your own kids, the level of grace you are going to need from them, and then offer that to your dad.” I realized that I was writing from the lens of a wounded child who was 16, not a 48-year-old man who has been on a journey of healing. The wounded teenager with his disappointments and frustrations and negative memories was guiding my hand. I had to step back and reflect and say, “That is not who I am anymore. Who I am is not based on who I was then. What would I say to my dad then based on being fully present in this moment at 48, the lessons I have learned, the wisdom, the grace I will need from my own children and the grace I offer others?” I penned that chapter differently. In real time, back in January of this year, my dad and I connected. I was speaking in Houston, and he lived 30 minutes from where I was speaking. We connected and had a great experience. I showed up not as a wounded teenager, but as a man who is on a journey of healing, who wants to be fully present and offer grace and love to people. That changed the dynamics of our interaction. That was my Aha moment. There is more on that in that chapter of Love is an Inside Job. Hugh: Which chapter is that? Romal: Chapter seven, “Getting Vulnerable with God and Honest with My Dad.” I write him a letter in the book. Hugh: That's powerful. I can't wait to get there. You act on your transformational thoughts. You actually transform yourself. So many people have thoughts and never do much about it. At 48, you have wisdom that far surpasses your years. You're a no-nonsense person. What prompts you to want to ask these questions? The thread that you had through this interview is that you have listened to external advocates, external supporters, external pundits that talk to you and give you feedback. So many leaders pooh-pooh that and then don't pay attention and don't act on it. But you have demonstrated that this transparency and vulnerability has helped you. What is underneath that that says to you, “I am going to do something about this?” Romal: Honestly, my own mortality. My mom passed 11 years ago. She was 53. She died of lung cancer. Ever since her death, I have had a very keen awareness of my own mortality. That guides me because I am constantly aware of I don't know how long I get to be here. To put things off is tempting fate and time. I really want to be the best version of me in my lifetime, and I don't know how long that is. I don't want to waste time pretending or putting things off. When I think about the internal peace that I desire, the level of joy and happiness I desire, I don't want to be the reason that I put that off for myself. When I think about being the best version of me in my lifetime and not knowing how long that is going to be, I can't assume that I have time to waste. If I have time to waste, I then have to question why am I wasting it, and what am I wasting it on? There is no value in that to living my best life while I have it. I try my best to remove the gray areas. I don't always get it right. But I offer myself grace along the way. I celebrate even the smallest victories in my life that are pushing me in the direction of wholeness. I am really compelled by that. My awareness of my humanity and my mortality. I get to do this once, and I want this journey to be amazing. Hugh: Wow. That is so key. We have two websites listed on The Nonprofit Exchange. It's RomalTune.com. There is a place to see your books and connect and get a book. There's an About You and some videos there with you speaking. There is also a place they can find out about you speaking. Give us the URL for the nonprofit. Tell us what your passion was to start that. Romal: Love is an Inside Jobis available on all bookselling platforms. My nonprofit The ClereStory Education Fund started out in my own giving just over ten years ago. The name has changed. The website is ClereStoryWorks.org. The clerestory is an architectural term. It's the highest level of a wall containing windows that let in light. If you were ever to Google “clerestory” and look at a picture, you will typically see churches with ceilings with windows that are above eye level with light shining in. We use it as a metaphor in saying that through the ClereStory workshops, we take a high level look at your life and shine light on the stories that have shaped who you believe you are in the world. Through ClereStory, we conduct workshops on creating a healthy vision for your life. We have one called Clere-Economics where we help you understand and value money through the lens of your story and your economic narrative and how it shaped you and how to write a new narrative. We have one called Clere-Conscience, where we deal with emotional health and wellness. Through the money that is generated from the workshops and my speaking engagements, we have a fund where we provide stipends and tuition assistance for kids from challenging circumstances who otherwise would not get a college education without the help from others, which has been a part of my story. My ability to live the life I have now is because of the generosity of strangers when I was unable to do for myself.             Hugh: That is profound. You can go to TheNonprofitExchange.org, and the video for this interview will be there, as well as the links for those two sites. Russell, what are you thinking? Got some more questions for our guest? Russell: We have covered a lot of things. A lot of things take place in the mind. The mind is our friend. It can be compatible with spirit. We talked a lot about doing things on an emotional and mental level. There is a spiritual component that goes into this. It's a connection with a power greater than ourselves that can't be defined by anybody else. It's a personal connection. How much does that play into your work? Actual mindfulness practice, prayer, meditation, how much do those factor into the work you do? Romal: Great questions. Prayer meditation is essential to me. The more I have learned about meditation and talking with Richard Rohr and reading and listening to different podcasts, the more I meditate- Prayer and meditation are different for me. The paradigm I learned when I got into the church for prayer is that I did all the talking and I did all the asking. Specifically, prayer was about, “Hey God, I need some stuff.” Whatever stuff was, from healing to a car. You name it. It was like, “God, can You help a brother out?” Meditation was more God doing the talking and me doing the listening. Meditation was harder initially because I was used to doing all the talking and didn't even know how to listen for God. The ability to meditate, be still, and deal with the thoughts that are coming in and not try to push them away but receive them and then let them go- That stillness practice has shown up in so many other ways in my life. I am more patient with life and the world and situations. I remember one time sitting in traffic and realizing I wasn't annoyed and totally not acting like I didn't know Christ in that traffic. I was able to be still. I was okay. I thought to myself, I have the ability to be still for 20 minutes every day. I can be still and fully present. If I break up this moment in this traffic into 20-minute increments, this is nothing. I can be present. I can reflect now. But meditation and prayer play an essential role in this journey. I talk about that in the book. Through meditation, I am able to listen for God. I have come to a place where I am able to bring everything to God. That means my broken places. The Bible says, God will give you beauty for ashes. I am willing to bring God my ashes. I think sometimes people will say, “Well, God already knows all that painful stuff. Why do you have to say it?” Because this is a conversation. It's a relationship. God knows. God wants to know that you are aware of yourself and you are aware of your own places that need healing. Giving the voice to it is powerful. As Brene Brown always says, the shame thrives in silence, but when you name it and give voice to it, it loses its power. In the presence of God during prayer, naming it, I am freed from the power of shame and guilt and doubt because I am able to surrender it. I have often thought that life was about fighting to achieve. What I have realized that everything I have thought I've had to fight for, it was never about fighting; it was about surrender. The Bible says, “The battle is not yours; it's the Lord's.” I get that now. So much of the fulfillment I have wanted for myself actually requires surrender. The piece I want requires surrender. The love I want requires surrender. The life that I wanted requires surrender. Prayer meditation plays an integral part. My favorite scripture, Jeremiah 29:11: I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and future. That is in fact true. God has a plan to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you hope and the future. You don't have to fight for that. You have to surrender to it. It's already there for you to receive. Just say yes. Allow yourself to experience it rather than think you have to go to battle for everything. The battle is already won. Hugh: Is your relationship with God a requirement for inner healing? Romal: I think that whether you have a relationship with God or not, God has a relationship with you. A person not being aware of God does not mean that God is not aware of that person. God's plan is not based on whether you are aware of God. God says I know the plan I have for you. You didn't create yourself, so you don't tell yourself what you were created for. In many ways, whether you know it or not, even if you don't know it, the hand of God is still moving. God's righteousness and purpose falls on the just and the unjust. God's grace, right? You don't have to be aware of it to receive grace. You don't have to be aware of it to receive God's love. I think you appreciate it more, you are able to express gratitude more when you are aware that it's not you, that it's a God who is better than you, who is directing His path. I use a metaphor, the Duke Ellington of your life. I love jazz. The Duke was able to take all of these different instruments, and he never asked the trumpet to be the sax or the sax to be the bass. He said, “Just follow my lead. Be the best version of you that you can be. Follow my cues, and we will make something beautiful together.” I think if we follow God's lead and just try to be ourselves and not try to be someone else, God makes some pretty beautiful things happen. When we are aware, we can celebrate that with a greater sense of gratitude. Gratitude is a path to a greater life. Yes, that healing can come whether you are aware that it's God or not. I think there is a greater sense of joy and peace and gratitude and adoration when you realize that there is a God that loves you enough. God doesn't remove God's presence from everything that you have already created for. Hugh: Whoa. That's really good. As we are ending this really awesome interview, Romal, what do you want to leave people with? Romal: You asked a question. You said you are a no-nonsense person; what is behind all of this? I think what I would want to leave people with is from this moment forward, you have an opportunity to be the best version of you that you can possibly be in your lifetime. Every moment in your life is an opportunity to say yes to grace and yes to who you are truly meant to be, yes to the peace of mind, the joy, the fulfillment that is your deepest yearning, that sense of connection, that sense of value. It begins with you saying yes to it. I would leave people with that reality that everything you desire, who you desire to be, who you are meant to be, the answer is already yes. You just have to pursue it and be unapologetically and authentically you. Hugh: Romal Tune, you're awesome. Thank you for spending this hour with us on The Nonprofit Exchangesharing your wisdom with the world. Thank you so much. Romal: It's been my pleasure, Hugh. Russell, it's been great to meet you, and I have enjoyed being here. Russell: Always a pleasure. Many thanks. What our lives are about and the way that we become- To increase our understanding and effectiveness and to be a maximum service to people around us, it's all about raising our level of consciousness, whatever that means to you. Raise that level of consciousness, and more things are possible. Hugh: Thank you, folks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Author Romal Tune shares some history on the Civil Rights Act of 1866

Author Romal Tune shares some history on the Civil Rights Act of 1866

Romal Tune is an award winning author, consultant and strategist. While Romal was in his hometown in California for our cross country interview, he is currently in Cape Town, South Africa. You can catch follow him on Periscope and see some of his work live around the world. You might also catch pictures of his recent breakfast with Bishop Desmond Tutu. You will also hear how you can get a comprehensive look at United Faith Leaders at an upcoming live webinar event.

Raised by a low-income, single mother in the San Francisco Bay area, Romal Tune would have been considered an "at-risk" youth. Through many twists and turns, ups and downs in his marathon of life, Romal learned he was much smarter and capable than he previously believed. However, even after rising to the top levels of society, he still wasn't happy. He had been wearing a mask. Once he made the decision, painful and scary as it was, to live authentically, he found purpose and meaning in life. Now he shares his story to empower people to do the same! Listen to our conversation: Listen on iTunes or Listen to/download this episode here: Mentioned in this show: Romal Tune: www.RomalTune.com Instagram: @RomalTune Twitter: @RomalTune www.StudentSWAG.org His book: God's Graffiti: Inspiring Stories for Teens "Transform Your Life!" and other live events Worry No More! book Download: Affirmations for Abundant Living LIAM Team Life Coaching Community Subscription/Social Links: Subscribe on iTunes! Subscribe on Stitcher Radio! Watch on YouTube! LIAM on Twitter: @LifeIs262 LIAM on Facebook / LifeIsAMarathon Subscribe to the LIAM Mailing List www.BruceVanHorn.com Bruce Van Horn on Twitter Bruce Van Horn on Facebook    

Raised by a low-income, single mother in the San Francisco Bay area, Romal Tune would have been considered an "at-risk" youth. Through many twists and turns, ups and downs in his marathon of life, Romal learned he was much smarter and capable than he previously believed. However, even after rising to the top levels of society, he still wasn't happy. He had been wearing a mask. Once he made the decision, painful and scary as it was, to live authentically, he found purpose and meaning in life. Now he shares his story to empower people to do the same! Listen to our conversation: Listen on iTunes or Listen to/download this episode here: Mentioned in this show: Romal Tune: www.RomalTune.com Instagram: @RomalTune Twitter: @RomalTune www.StudentSWAG.org His book: God's Graffiti: Inspiring Stories for Teens "Transform Your Life!" and other live events Worry No More! book Download: Affirmations for Abundant Living LIAM Team Life Coaching Community Subscription/Social Links: Subscribe on iTunes! Subscribe on Stitcher Radio! Watch on YouTube! LIAM on Twitter: @LifeIs262 LIAM on Facebook / LifeIsAMarathon Subscribe to the LIAM Mailing List www.BruceVanHorn.com Bruce Van Horn on Twitter Bruce Van Horn on Facebook    

To be clear, cohost Slim Moon totally didn’t take his pants off and show his butt on air; it just worked for the title. But since it’s a podcast we could also be lying. On the anniversary of 9/11 the CultureCastaways reflect on fourteen years since the attack on the Twin Towers and what it’s… Read more about Romal Tune, Kim Davis Swoons and Slim Moons

Author and community activist Romal Tune shares some history on the Civil Rights Act of 1866

Author and community activist Romal Tune shares some history on the first African American owned and operated newspaper in the U.S., Freedom's Journal

Join your host Peter Matthews in conversation with our special guests Romal Tune, author of God's Grafitti and Drew Dellinger, poet, scholar and activist.   Visit us anytime online at SoulEmergence.org