Podcast appearances and mentions of Bob Goff

Throughout the summer, we're revisiting some of our most meaningful conversations - stories of hope, healing, and life-changing collisions with Jesus that continue to encourage women year after year.This episode originally aired in March 2026 and we're grateful to share it again with you.Whether you're listening for the first time or returning to it again, we pray it meets you right where you are and reminds you of God's faithfulness, grace, and redeeming love.What does it really look like to live out the love of Jesus in everyday life?In this inspiring and often hilarious conversation, Willow sits down with bestselling author, attorney, and founder of Love Does, Bob Goff. Known for his joyful spirit and unconventional approach to faith, Bob shares stories and wisdom about living a life that moves from the sidelines to the field—where love becomes something we do, not just something we talk about.Bob reflects on the power of availability, why influence matters, and how taking a genuine interest in people can transform relationships. Through stories about answering phone calls from strangers, building friendships across the world, and helping others pursue their dreams, he challenges us to live courageously and intentionally.He also shares a powerful spiritual practice of looking into both the “eye of forgiveness” and the “eye of responsibility” in Jesus—reminding us that faith invites both grace and growth.This episode will leave you encouraged to live boldly, love deeply, and take your faith off the bleachers and onto the field.In This Episode, You'll Hear AboutWhy Bob spends nights at Disneyland giving strangers a shortcut to the front of the lineMoving from watching life to actively participating in itThe difference between controlling outcomes and influencing peopleWhy being available might be one of the most powerful ways to love othersThe importance of taking a genuine interest in people's storiesAbout Bob GoffBob Goff is a New York Times bestselling author, attorney, and founder of the nonprofit Love Does. Known for his contagious joy and practical approach to faith, Bob has inspired millions through books like Love Does and his global work advocating for justice, education, and opportunity. His life message is simple but powerful: love isn't just something we say—it's something we do.View full video Podcast on YouTubeCollide BookFollow Willow: Website | Instagram | Facebook

Raising Future HEALTHY Adults with Elizabeth Pehrson (Episode 296)   Hebrews 12:11 NIV “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.”   *Transcription Below*   Elizabeth Pehrson is a speaker, podcaster and founder of The Exchange. She's a yellow sanguine, who is full of energy and lives life wide-open! She loves Jesus and meaningful connections. Elizabeth is married to David and mother of EIGHT children, who range from high school to graduated from college.   Follow her online:  Instagram: @long_game_parenting or @octomama or @theexchangeus Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.m.pehrson   Thank you to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage   Questions and Topics We Cover: What are a handful of habits in the home that you see as most essential for families so that they all can experience a joyful life together? What natural consequences and strategic discipline can you offer as ideas for teens living at home? As parents, what else can we do now to help our kids reach maturity and independence as adults?   Previous Guests from The Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned: 74 Effective Parenting for Toddlers Through College with Wife, Mother to 8, and The Exchange Founder, Elizabeth Pehrson Part 1  75 Responding to God's Stirring with Elizabeth Pehrson, Founder of The Exchange, Part Two Inspiring Perspective in Parenting with Kay Wyma (Episode 164) Stories of God's Upside Down Economy with Kristen Welch (Episode 174)   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:11) ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:18) ‍ ‍ Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. ‍ ‍ I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage, while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org slash savvy. ‍ ‍ My returning guest for today is Elizabeth Pehrson, and if possible, we are going to get even more practical than we did last week, as we're going to discuss ways to actually enjoy parenting, while simultaneously preparing our children to launch as faithful and healthy adults someday. ‍ ‍ Here's our chat. ‍ ‍ Welcome back again to The Savvy Sauce, Elizabeth. I'm so excited to be here. ‍ ‍ This is fun. It's always a joy to get a chat with you, and we're going to go even more practical today, but do you mind sharing some disclaimers about that first? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (1:32 - 1:57) ‍ ‍ Not at all. You know, when I was growing up, I grew up in the church, and I really looked at "train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he will not depart from it," as a promise. And it really is a principle. And so as much as we want it to be A plus B equals C, it's not always that way. There are certain principles that we are to follow and God's asked us to, and so I think we need to focus on that and leave the rest to him. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (1:57 - 2:28) ‍ ‍ That's so good. So, keeping that in mind, but then also hearing wise tips that we can hopefully implement. How do you think we can teach our children the importance of reciprocity, such as encouraging them to ask other people questions rather than just focusing the conversation on themselves, or encouraging them to do chores around the house, rather than just expecting their parents to do all the work or over function for them? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (2:29 - 6:07) ‍ ‍ Oh, yeah, this one's right up my alley. I love this question so much. John F. Kennedy, you know, gave his famous speech, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." And I think in the same way, we want each family member to ask not what can you do for me, but what can I do for the family. And we believe that wholeheartedly. ‍ ‍ And so, because of that, we started assigning age-appropriate chores at the age of three. And they have a chore every single day of the week, except for Sunday, even when they're busy, even when they have baseball, football, lacrosse, didn't matter what it was. We have this whiteboard in our home. And it's like the motherboard of all things in our family. And it's got on the top part of it, it has our calendar appointments, practices, games, meetings, you know, meals for the week, like everything you can imagine that it takes to run our family is at the top part. And then the second part of the whiteboard, we have a section that says, “because we clothe and feed you, and then it has their names underneath that. ‍ ‍ And so, when they leave for school, I look at the calendar, I look at everything that needs to be gotten done that day or that week for the family. And then I delegate it to each of the children. And so, I would assign them each a chore. And so, when they would get home from school, it was right there where they would walk in and put their backpacks down and they knew to look at their chore. And they knew that it had to be finished before dinner. And it made it so easy because there was no nagging, there was no reminding, there was no, you know, begging them to do it and following up, it was just so much a part of each of their day, just like going to school or brushing their teeth, it was something they knew they had to do. ‍ ‍ And in addition to that, in our home, when our children turn eight, we have this rule that you are no longer a consumer, but you are a contributor. So, at the age of eight, they have to start doing all their own laundry, washing their own sheets, and lots of other substantially harder chores. And then at nine, they have to start mowing the yard, they start cooking and things that actually really contribute to the family as a whole. ‍ ‍ And, you know, in the last episode, I talked a lot about modeling for our kids, you know, what we want them to learn. And as far as the, you know, talking about asking important, I mean, having them ask questions and reciprocity, it's the same thing as to you have to model it, right? You have to model that for your children. And so let them hear you ask the cashier how her day's going, you know, even if it embarrasses them, or, you know, how you speak to the waiter or the waitress, let them see you notice the neighbor struggling with something in their yard. Like let them watch you thank their father for taking the car to get the oil changed or taking the trash out just simple things like that. You know, something that our mentors taught us that we implemented with our children right away. ‍ ‍ And this was I cannot emphasize the impact that this had on our children enough. But when somebody anybody, but particular an adult asked you a question, you look them in the eyes, you answered their question. And then you responded with a question, you ask them a question that was a game changer. I can't tell you how many bus drivers, teachers, coaches said, “I've never had a student asked me how my weekend was.” I've never once, when they get on the bus asked me, ”How am I doing today? How was my day?” ‍ ‍ And again, it's not for any like praise or anything like that. But my point is, it's so countercultural that it stands out. And it's so important to have your children learn from a young age what it looks like to look an adult in the eye and ask her a question. If they can't do that, when they're older, they'll never be able to advocate for themselves. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (6:08 - 6:21) ‍ ‍ I love all things countercultural. I think because a lot of times it does point back to Jesus, just even somebody experiencing that and having a wow factor. Ultimately, it's because the goodness of the Lord that they've just experienced. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (6:22 - 6:23) ‍ ‍ Absolutely, absolutely. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (6:23 - 6:38) ‍ ‍ So, do you have maybe a handful of habits in the home that you see as most essential for families so that everyone living there can enjoy and experience a joyful life together? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (6:40 - 9:00) ‍ ‍ Oh, I'm sure that we do. I think joy in a home is rarely accidental. It's cultivated, it's intentional. And I would just say, ask what brings your family joy, and then do more of that. It's most likely going to be different for everybody. And I can only speak for us. But what we loved, what we did, family dinners around the dinner table were non-negotiable. ‍ ‍ There were seasons around the dinner table, that part was negotiable, because there were seasons, like we had four boys playing football. And so, we would have practices five nights a week and four games on Saturday. And so, we would take the dinner to the ballpark, and we would literally sit there as a family, because I wasn't going to constantly never have family dinner just for the six months in the fall, or winter, or whatever. But we used dinner time to ask intentional questions, to laugh, to tell stories. We joked, we role-played, that was a big one for us. ‍ ‍ Just as a family, we would do that together. And probably the best thing that we did, and the thing that we still do, is we make things fun. We play games, really fun ones. Not that board games aren't fun, those are fun. But instead of, our kids are grown now, and for Easter, they will all come home, and I will have created games out of Easter eggs with all different types. Not going to find them, but just different types. I'll line up 20 Easter eggs with different colors, and then the first person, they get 10 seconds to look at it. And then the first person that can replicate it with those colors. Things like that, what was in the Easter eggs, questions, that kind of stuff. ‍ ‍ One year, we did an Easter egg hunt, where we tied two people together. One was on the back, and the one below was blindfolded. So, the one on the back had to tell them where to go, and what to do. Or we leg-tied their legs together. Just things to make it creative or fun. At Christmas, we always play reindeer games. It's my kids' favorite thing that we do. We've often gotten in inflatables, and we've done an Easter egg hunt that way, where everyone's wearing these huge inflatables, or we play a kickball game. And that was our Christmas card this last year. But just anything that wants to make them want to participate, right? Want to have them want to come home. So that's what I would say. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (9:01 - 9:18) ‍ ‍ I love it. And I don't remember the direct quote. It was from Bob Goff. But just saying how the more outlandish it is, or the more that you add variety or break from the norms, that's what they're going to remember. So, I'm sure your kids have incredible memories of all those holidays. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:19 - 9:19) ‍ ‍ Yes. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (9:20 - 9:38) ‍ ‍ I hope so, anyway. Oh, I'm sure that we'll have to steal some of those. But do you also have any stories to share for the payoff now that you're experiencing? Because when your children were little, you started them off with focusing on chores and hard work. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:38 - 9:39) ‍ ‍ How long do you have? ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (9:40 - 9:42) ‍ ‍ Give everything you got. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:42 - 14:13) ‍ ‍ Okay. Chores for children when they are young, it has proven to be the single biggest indicator of success when they're older. Hands down. Chores, specifically hard chores, they teach your kids responsibility. They teach them resourcefulness. It instills in them confidence. It instills in them capability. It instills in them competence. And I could give you example, after example, after example of how I've seen this payoff for my children. And I would say even in some ways, more importantly, how I have seen it negatively impact their friends, whose parents did not require them to work at home when they were younger. ‍ ‍ I remember my oldest son went off to college, and he called me after orientation and he's a man of few words, doesn't say thank you very often. And he said, "Mom, I have to tell you something." And I said, "What?" And he said, "You know, this is a pretty hard school to get into. And the people are competent. They're smart." He said, "I have never in my life seen a group of individuals that are so incapable of doing anything for themselves." He's like, "We're standing in line to get our, what's the ID, you know, their picture taken." He said, "Kid after kid on their phone. Hey, I don't, I don't have a credit card. I don't have a debit card. I don't know how to do this." He said, "I mean, and then he gets to college and it's like, they don't know how to get their oil changed. They don't know how to, you know, make their own doctor's appointment." And he thanked me. He's like, "I'm sorry. I resisted it when I was younger, but I just want to say thank you." ‍ ‍ And, you know, my daughter Libby called me one day and she said, "Mom, you know, you're not going to believe this." And I said, "What?" And so, she tells me of the story of her roommate, and her roommate had not left campus in six weeks. And so, she asked her, she said, "Hey, I thought you had a car here." And she said, "I do." And she said, "Well, why don't you ever leave?" And she said, "Well, I don't have gas." And she said, "Well, do you need money?" And she said, "Well, no, I don't need money." You know, she said, "I thought maybe you needed gas money." She said, "No." And she said, "Well, then what's going on?" She goes, "I've never put gas in my car." And that's not a chore, but that is a basic skill. Think about that, dropping your child off to college with a car and never having shown them or made them get their own gas. ‍ ‍ And then she called me a couple of weeks later. And she said to me, "Mom, did you know it's possible not to know how to hand wash dishes?" And I said, "Well, that's not possible. What are you talking about?" She said, "Well, she was just buying new dishes, plastic dishes. She was buying them because she didn't know how to wash them." And so, she said, "I said to her, hey, like you can just wash your dishes." She goes, "We don't have a dishwasher." And she said, "So I had to show her how to use soap and water to wash her own dishes." I mean, I could go on and on and on. ‍ ‍ I mean, I have another daughter that went off to college, and we were at the very first day moving them in and the mom was barking orders, telling everyone what to do. And after about 10 minutes, I was like, I went outside in the hallway, and I just sat down and removed myself. And her husband looks at me and he goes, "Wow, you learned quickly." And I said, "What does that mean?" And he said, "Get out of her way and let her do it." And I said, "Well, what about your daughter?" He goes, "Oh, she's never done anything for herself. She does everything for her." ‍ ‍ We got in the car to go home. And I just said to my husband, I said, "It's going to be really hard for our daughter because this girl's never done anything for themselves." I mean, I could give you story, after story, after story, but you know, when you require your children to put in hard work when they're really young, you know, they don't panic when life requires effort. Later on, they aren't entitled to comfort. They aren't entitled to other people doing things for them. You know, they know how to contribute, you know, wherever they land, whether it's in a dorm room, a house or, you know, college house or beyond, you know, my kids joke with me. They were like, "Mom, this can be a gift or a curse knowing how to do everything." And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" They're like, "Well, nobody else knows how to do everything. And they know that we do. So, they just want us to do it." And I was like, "Sorry about that. You know, sorry, you have to take care of it." ‍ ‍ But again, it's like, we are trying to train our kids up for independence, not to be dependent on us. And they go off to college or they graduate college, and they're already going to have first, like so many first being away from home, sleeping with a stranger in their same room, your dorm room, like so many things are going to have to navigate. And then do you want them to have to figure out how to do laundry, how to do dishes, how to I mean, no, it's like, wow, chores instill that. And then when they're really young. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (14:14 - 14:23) ‍ ‍ So, did you and your husband sit down and map out everything that you wanted them to know? Or how did you come up with these chores? And what are some more examples? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (14:24 - 16:09) ‍ ‍ Oh, yeah. And it's so interesting. It's so interesting, because I thought about this when I was thinking about our time together. But there's a book that we read. Well, there's a couple of books that we read that were pretty impactful. But one of them was called Cleaning House by Kate Wills Weima. And so, her 12 things, the idea of the book is to think about all the things you want to know your children know how to do and know how to do well when they leave home. And then you take one month and you just focus on that, that specific thing. And so, we sat down and her 12 things weren't our 12 things. Some of them were, but some of them were not. And so, we just did month after month after month of wanting them to know exactly, you know, how to do these things, you know, when we're grown, or when they're grown. And so we did that. ‍ ‍ But I mean, my husband, anytime he was working on the lawnmower, anytime he was doing anything in the yard, he gathered the boys around like, "Hey, boys, come on," and he was trying to show them or fixing the toilet or deal, you know, whatever it might have been. And I would do the same thing, whether it was in the garden, or whether it was in the kitchen, or whether it was outside with yard work, whatever, just to gather them around and involve them because they don't know. I mean, it's not their fault, but they won't know unless we show them. ‍ ‍ And one of the things I love is that the earlier you start showing them and training them up in these chores, and in this yard work, and in managing a home, the longer you have at home to train them up to do it well. But a lot of people think, oh, they're too young, or I'll just wait until they're older. Well, truth is, by the time they're 16, you really have very limited time with them. Very limited. And you're like, "Oh, when am I going to do that?" You know, they're at their sports, they're at school things, they're driving, they're with friends. And so, it's like, the earlier you can start the better. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (16:11 - 16:22) ‍ ‍ So good, even I'm thinking we could even involve our kids in what else have we not thought of that you want to learn how to do because it really is a gift to be trained and to take that time. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:23 - 16:32) ‍ ‍ I mean, and that kind of goes back to what we've talked about last time, you know, just being lifelong learners and curious, like, I don't know how to do this. But let's figure it out together. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (16:33 - 16:44) ‍ ‍ Well, and I'm going to also link to a previous episode, I did interview Kay on that book. But do you remember the other one that you also read related to it? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:44 - 20:24) ‍ ‍ Oh, yes, there was a season where there's actually two of them. But there is a season where my focus and my priority was riding entitlement from my children. I meet with moms all the time. And they're like, "My children are so spoiled." And I'm like, "Well, just I'm curious who spoils them." You know, and it really does start with us. It stems with us, even if it's the ones where moms will say, "Well, I mean, I don't give them that brand new thing, but their grandmother does." Well, technically, you're the gatekeeper of what comes in and out of your home, you can allow it or not allow it, you can say to them, "You know what, they don't need the newest iPad, they don't need the newest Lululemon or whatever. I want to, I want you to offer an experience with them, you know, something different, something like that, you can control that." But there was a season where that's all I saw. And I saw it in my children's hearts as well. And so, I read the book How to Raise Grateful Children in an Entitled World. And then I also read the book 7 by Jen Hatmaker long time ago, a lot of our philosophies have changed. But back in the day, long time ago, it was an entitlement, it said an experiment against a mutiny against excess. And so, it was another challenge we did, like we did the 12-month challenge from Kay's book, we did a seven-month challenge from her book, and we took seven areas where we have so much excess, and we stripped it down one month at a time. And I'm telling you, it was hard, not only because our children didn't want to do it, but it was hard for me, particularly the month of technology. I mean, you're talking no TV, no cell phone, no, I mean, other than phone calls, you know, no scrolling, none of that, no podcast, no, you couldn't use it just for a month just to have stillness, quiet. I mean, it was crazy hard. But then we noticed that the puzzles started coming out and coloring started coming out and creativity started coming out, you know, it requires 15 minutes of boredom, boredom for creativity to set in. And I would say the creativity did set in, and it was unbelievable. ‍ ‍ One month, we only allowed we got to choose, but we picked seven foods. That's all you could eat for one month. When you went out, that's all you could choose from. It was so hard. It was unbelievable. But what caught me so strongly was in her book, she starts out by saying she had three young children at home, and she was adopting two children from Ethiopia. And she had already been over to visit them twice. And they were literally starving to death. And you know, her heart just wanted them home. But because of all the logistics, she couldn't get them here yet. And she said one day she made fish sticks for her kids. And then she went up to go switch laundry. She came back down a few minutes later, and she saw all the fish in the trash can. And she was like, "What in the world?" So, she asked them, she said, "Did y'all not eat?" They're like, "We did." And she said, "Well, I just saw the fish sticks in the trash can." And they're like, "We didn't have ketchup." She's like, "You just threw away five pounds of fish, you know, whatever it was, because you didn't have ketchup. Yet we have two other children across the world that would give anything to have those fish sticks." And I was like, "I see that with my children. It's like, I don't want that. Or I don't care for that. Or that clothing, I'd rather something else." And so, for one month, they only could wear seven articles of clothing total. That's it. And it's crazy, because you think everyone's looking at you like, "Why are you wearing the same thing every single day?" No one even cares what you're doing. But it just changed your whole mindset and perspective. So, entitlement was a big one for us. And those two books were super helpful with that. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (20:25 - 20:28) ‍ ‍ Well, and even it sounds like a version of fasting. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (20:29 - 20:53) ‍ ‍ Oh, absolutely. I mean, we've told our kids all you know, since they were young, it doesn't matter what it is. Whatever you can't fast from owns you. It does, whatever that is. And so, some months the food was harder for others for some month, the clothing was harder, the girls, the clothing was harder. You know, the boys could care less for some month, it was a technology, but it's like whatever it is, it's got a stronghold in your heart. That's what owns you. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (20:54 - 23:23) ‍ ‍ And now a brief message from our sponsor. ‍ ‍ Friends, I'm excited to share with you today's sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Do you feel like you need a weekend away with your spouse and a chance to grow in your relationship together at the same time? WinShape Marriage is a fantastic ministry that provides weekend marriage retreats to help couples grow closer together in every season and stage of life. From pre-marital to parenting to the emptiness phase, there is an opportunity for you. WinShape Marriage is grounded on the belief that the strongest marriages are the ones that are nurtured, even when it seems things are going smoothly, so that they're stronger if they do hit a bump along their journey. ‍ ‍ These weekend retreats are hosted within the beautiful refuge of WinShape Retreat, perched in the mountains of Rome, Georgia, which is a short drive from Atlanta, Birmingham, and Chattanooga. While you're there, you will be well-fed, well-nurtured, and well-cared for. During your time away in this beautiful place, you and your spouse will learn from expert speakers and explore topics related to intimacy, overcoming challenges, improving communication, and more. ‍ ‍ I've stayed on site at WinShape before, and I can attest to their generosity, food, and content. You will be so grateful you went. To find an experience that's right for you and your spouse, head to their website, winshapemarriage.org/savvy. That's W-I-N-S-H-A-P-E marriage.org/savvy, S-A-V-V-Y. Thanks for your sponsorship. ‍ ‍ Another big topic is discipline, and that's something that parents are consistently interested in discussing, probably so that we can all balance rules and relationship. For any of the other parents who are also exhausted and maybe don't know what consequences to utilize as they seek to influence their children, what are some natural consequences and strategic discipline that you've offered before or that you can think of, especially with teens in the home? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:25 - 27:02) ‍ ‍ Yeah. Discipline basically means to disciple, and so we're training our kids up. We can't expect them just to know it on their own and intuitively think, that's not a wise choice, so I shouldn't make it. We're here because they need us. God entrusted them to us. But I love that you said consequences, because that's really the way I choose to look at discipline, because childhood is meant to be training ground for independence. ‍ ‍ Natural consequences, in my opinion, are the best way to do that, because I think consequences should connect directly to their choices, to my choices, because as we tell them, every single choice you make, every single one has a consequence, good or bad. You're going to have a consequence. You reap what you do, so therefore it is so important to acknowledge and recognize what you choose. Not my response to it, but to what you choose. ‍ ‍ You oversleep an alarm, which is, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers are known to do. You oversleep the alarm, you experience the discomfort of being late, whether that's missing the whole day because you as the mom are busy doing other things, or you're at work, or maybe you just missed that test the first period and you can then drive yourself to school, but you have to suffer that consequence. I'm not going to rescue you from that, or you know, you forget to bring in a project that you have worked on for days and days and days and days, and you forget to bring it in. Your grade will reflect that. That is a natural consequence. ‍ ‍ I had a son, I won't name him, but I had a son that chose to make the decision to cheat on a chemistry test, and the teacher called me and said, in high school, AP, and said, "You know, he's a great student, he made a poor choice, he didn't study, he's busy with football," and she said, "So I'm going to let him retake it," and I said, "No, he chose to make that decision. Please fail him like you would do any other student. I do not want him to ever, ever, ever consider doing this again," and she goes, "Well, it might be on his transcript." I said, "Okay, so be it, but I'm more interested in his long-term character and who he's becoming than I am about his AP chemistry score. I'm more interested in that," so the natural consequences, or to give him a zero on that. ‍ ‍ You know, you have the stud athlete as a son, and they forget their cleats or their jerseys at home. Guess what? They sit out from practice. They sit out from the game that afternoon. You know, it's not going to be the end of the world. Although we think it is, they think it is, it's not. So, I try to think of discipline, you know, not as punishing, but more as preparing them for adulthood, and you know, like we talked about the other day, I encourage moms not to bail, but to let them fail. I mean, it literally could seem like the end of the world to your child, but in the grand scheme of things, it has no bearing on their life later on, but many moms treat every little thing as if, you know, but I just try to tell moms when I meet with them, your child's employer will not care what they made on a middle school project. They won't. If they forgot it and got a C, your employer, their employer will not care that they made a C on that, or maybe even an F. They will not even care what your son or your daughter's high school GPA is. They will not care if you missed that baseball game, you missed that tournament, but they will care if you are hardworking, if you're responsible, if you take ownership for your actions, and I think natural consequences are the best way to teach all of those things. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (27:03 - 27:13) ‍ ‍ Well, and I would assume if we actually follow through, it's so painful in the moment, but it probably doesn't take many times to learn that lesson. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (27:14 - 29:29) ‍ ‍ No, not at all, and particularly if you have multiple children. I remember I was giving a talk on entitlement and how we rescue our children so easily, and I was setting up, and so I was getting things out of my car, taking things back and forth into this, you know, building where I was setting up, and as I get into the back seat, I see this project that my daughter literally had been working on for two weeks, and when she got out of the car that day, she left it, and I just thought, "Oh, here I am talking about this. I can either do it, nobody will know, take it up there, but then I was like, no, what does that teach her? Mom's going to bail me out every single time," and it was like, ah, it crushed me, crushed me, but I was more interested in what's going to happen for her long term, and another thing, if you have, if you have siblings, multiple children, they can learn from each other, not just from their own personal suffering. ‍ ‍ That same daughter, I'll never forget it. She came home from school. She was in the third grade, and my kids know, like, your schoolwork is on you. It is not on me. I have already been to kindergarten. I have already been to third grade. I've already been to high school. It is on you, and I email the teachers at the beginning of the year. I just want you to know that my third-grade daughter will be doing her entire projects, schoolwork, tests, grade, everything will be her, so please, please grade her on a third grade level, because what's happening is parents are doing their projects, parents are doing their papers, all of the things, and so it's like, wow, hers looks terrible. It is on par for a third grader, though, you know, so I email the teachers at the beginning, and I let them know that they are responsible. They can choose to teach them in any way that they want, discipline them in any way they want, and my daughter came home from school one day, and she had this big thing due the next day, and she was like, "Mom, oh my goodness, I left it in my desk. Would you please email her and see if I can come in early in the morning and get it and work on it," and I said, "Sure," and all my kids were like, "You will," and so I emailed, and I said, "Dear Mrs. Prilliman, she left her, you know, her assignment in her desk. Please feel free to punish her and discipline her in any way that you see fit," and she's like, "Mom," you know, she was so upset, but the other kids are like, "Mental note, I will never do that," you know, so they can learn, you know, from each other as well, so. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (29:30 - 29:50) ‍ ‍ That is a benefit of having siblings. I love hearing those stories. That helps it sink in, but Elizabeth, also, what can we be doing while our children are still in the home in hopes of them experiencing wise financial stewardship and freedom financially when they leave home? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (29:51 - 32:34) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I'm going to be very honest. David and I were not the best at this. It's not our greatest strength, that is for sure. It is not our natural genius, and with a family of 10, money was always tight. It really was, but we didn't want our kids to feel the weight of that. We didn't want them to feel that burden, but having said that, we did teach them delayed gratification. We did teach them saving before spending, distinguishing wants from needs. That's a big difference, working for what they desire or what they wanted, and they had to participate in paying for part or all of what they wanted, and that included travel sports. I mean, you know, there were times where we had five or six in travel sports. I mean, it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, and so they either had to contribute financially if they could, depending on their age, or I remember one year, my son was young, and he wanted to do it, and it was going to be $2,800, and he was very gifted in baseball, and we wanted him to have this experience, but we knew that it was going to impact the entire family because all of our kids were still young. ‍ ‍ It wasn't like we could leave them at home. Everybody would be going every single weekend to all these different places, and so we said, "Okay, we're going to sit down as a family, and we're going to talk about this," and so they agreed. They wanted him to do it. They wanted to go to all these tournaments as a family, but so we decided that we would not eat out until that was paid off, the equivalent of that was paid off, and anytime anyone wanted to like stop at McDonald's or pick up something, we're like, "Remember, we're paying for Jack's baseball," and it was a family effort, and so, you know, I mean, it could be their homecoming dress if they want something extravagant or things that were above and beyond, you know, over a roof over their head or food on the table or clothes, you know, their basic needs, but just tried to model financially real life, and we all know that just because we want something doesn't mean we get it. It doesn't work that way, and when we give our kids everything they want, I would argue that we are setting them up and sometimes their potential future spouses up for failure because I don't know if you know this, but this generation is the first generation not to have as to make as much or have as much as their previous two generations before them. ‍ ‍ Typically, we make more than our parents and our grandparents, but this is the first one not to, and that's why grown adults are still living at home, so it's like, wow, if we can model this for our kids, you know, that, hey, just because you want that extra thing doesn't mean you get it. You got to work some extra jobs. You got to pick up some extra shifts, you know, maybe ask for some money chores at home, you know, that we would offer them, but we just tried to model it for real life, but like I said, it wasn't our greatest strength. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (32:35 - 32:41) ‍ ‍ Oh, I bet even more of a strength than you realize just hearing that example. I did not know that about the generation. That's fascinating. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (32:43 - 34:15) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I mean, one of my all-time favorite, there's a TED Talk. It's old. It's like a really short one, and I'm blanking on the lady's name, but she was in college, and her dad was an attorney, and he was very affluent. They had a lot of money, and back in the day, I think this was like in the 90s, 2000s maybe, there was this new pair of jeans that were out, and they were $120, and every other pair of jeans were like 50 bucks or something, you know, 40 bucks, and so she called her dad, who could easily afford it, and said, "Dad, oh my gosh, I need a pair of these jeans. Everybody," she was in college at University of Florida. "Everybody has these jeans. I want a pair," and he goes, "Okay, well, what are you going to do to go get the money?" She's like, "Dad, come on. I know you can give it to me." He said, "No, that's not the way life works," so she happened to be in the student center, and she saw one of those little advertisements, need a house cleaner, and she's like, "My parents made me do chores. I know how to clean a house," so she pulled the little number. She went to the lady's house. She cleaned her house, got the 120 bucks, and the lady said, "Well, when are you coming back," and she said, "Oh, no, no, I just needed one pair of jeans. Like, you know, I'm not coming back," and she said, "No, you did an amazing job." Well, this girl went on to start an organization while she was in college, a business. Now, it's like on a Fortune 500 something. I don't even know, but it's called Student Maid, M-A-I-D, and she had 500 employees by the time she was a senior, and she was cleaning apartments, houses, but her dad had given her the 120 bucks because he could to get the pair of jeans, so it's like, get out there and figure it out, and so I just love that story. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (34:16 - 34:34) ‍ ‍ Wow, I love that as well, and totally different topic, but when it comes to caring for our health and our bodies, if we truly believe our bodies are a temple for God, what are ways that we can model and encourage our children to live wisely in that way? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (34:35 - 37:07) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I'm glad you said model because really that's what it comes down to. I mean, if they see us beating ourselves up, not prioritizing sleep, not moving our bodies, not eating well, you know, that's what they're going to do. I mean, it's just history has proven itself. You can look at cultures. Those that move their bodies, sleep, rest on the Sabbath, I mean, they're a healthier culture, and so all of those things, you know, eating with balance, not obsession, resting on Sundays, I mean, even in the church world, that's almost unheard of to take the Sabbath off, and I would really say, particularly if you have daughters, not that it doesn't matter for sons as well, but it really impacts daughter is speaking respectfully about the body that God has given you. ‍ ‍ I sadly see so many women talk trash about their own looks or their own appearance, their body, if I could just fix this, I wish I didn't have this, and then they expect their daughters not to do the same, you know, and so when we say, "Oh, honey, you're beautiful," they're like, "Well, you don't think you are," you know, and they see right through it. I mean, I want my daughters to be strong, not skinny, right? I want them to be healthy, not appearance driven. I want them to know that mom got up and went to the gym every morning. Mom made sure she got outside and got sunshine and got on a walk, you know, culture already put so much pressure on these young girls and their size. Oh, my goodness, it like just breaks my heart, and so the last thing they need is for us to start, you know, for striving for unattainable goals, right, that put an expectation on them and their appearance. I mean, that's the last thing that they need, and so David and I have always tried to, well, I would say we tried very, very, very, very hard to compliment their character and their effort, but never their appearance. ‍ ‍ Most of the times when you hear parents applauding and just talking about how good looking someone is, how beautiful they are, it's nothing that they did to earn. I mean, you'll hear something. My son is so tall and big and strong, and I'm like, he did nothing. God gave him that, you know, and if you happen to have a very small son like I do, and if that's what you're praising over here, what does that speak to this child? Or, you know, oh my goodness, you're so beautiful, and so we try to focus on their heart, the internal, their, you know, the stewardship of what God has given them, but never appearance. It's more taking care of the body, and we believe the important part of that is the heart and the soul. So, we just want them to have the goal of honoring the life that God entrusted to them, the body that God entrusted to them. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (37:08 - 37:21) ‍ ‍ Such wise principles, and then when we think about spiritual life as well, what wisdom can you share for parents who want to help their children cultivate a flourishing spiritual life? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (37:22 - 39:19) ‍ ‍ Well, one prayer for our children is that they would each have a faith of their own, you know, not one that's handed down, not a formula, you know, but a relationship with Jesus, and so with that in mind, we tried to focus on the heart of who Jesus is and not the rules of God. You know, we never wanted them to view God as this like scary judge, you know, with his gavel, like handing down these judgments, but a God who genuinely loves them regardless of what they do, and so we wanted that to be their own unique personal relationship, not one that looks like ours, acts like ours, you know, it's like this cookie cutter, so we encourage them just to pray naturally, not formula, you know, like formally, but we talked about God in a real casual way, like in our coming and our going, not this big Sunday conversation, you know, you have at the dinner table after church, but we wanted them to see our own dependence on God, which was every single day, and we wanted to create space for them to have their own unique personal faith, and one thing I've learned is that faith cannot be manufactured, but you can cultivate the soil where it grows, and I'll just say this really quick, in an effort to have them have a faith of their own, it was so neat, they all went to the same church, but their faith looks so differently, different from their siblings, and there was a time we had all four of them at one college in Athens, and so they're all there, and we were visiting, and I said, "Hey, well, you know, we'll go to church tomorrow morning, you know, with y'all," and they all kind of looked at me like I had three heads, and I thought, "Well, don't y'all go to church, please tell me I'll go to church," you know, that's not what they meant, they all four went to completely different churches, wow, I was mind blown, I was like, "This is the most ecumenical family I've ever met," like I was like, I had no idea that that is how different the relationships with the Lord are, as for what they were seeking in a church, and I was just so grateful for that. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (39:20 - 40:17) ‍ ‍ When was the first time you listened to an episode of The Savvy Sauce? How did you hear about our podcast? Did a friend share it with you? Will you be willing to be that friend now and text five other friends or post on your socials anything about The Savvy Sauce that you love? If you share your favorite episodes, that is how we continue to expand our reach and get the good news of Jesus Christ in more ears across the world, so we need your help. Another way to help us grow is to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Each of these suggestions will cost you less than a minute, but it will be a great benefit to us. Thank you so much for being willing to be generous with your time and share, we appreciate you. ‍ ‍ One other practical thing too, do you have just any tech tips, especially because you've raised so many teens already? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:17 - 42:06) ‍ ‍ Oh, tech tips. You know, we had this big charging station in our kitchen, and so the kids had to put their phones there at night, and it would charge like all of them, and so we could see if the phone was not up at night, and there were some serious consequences if they broke those rules. I remember one time my daughter, after we went to bed, she snuck back downstairs and got her phone and brought it upstairs, and anyway, I kept getting these notifications come through on my iPad, and I was like, "What in the world?" Well, I didn't even realize the clouds, or it's over my head, but whatever reason, hers was beeping on mine, and so we went in there, and she had her phone under her pillow. She was texting somebody, and so when she got home from school that next day, her door was off of the hinges, and she was, you know, as a middle school girl, her privacy was so important. I was like, "You can change in the bathroom, you know, but you have shown us that you cannot earn privacy right now. You don't make the choices with it," but it is really hard. ‍ ‍ I think a lot of people, their natural inclination is just to remove it all from them, but I hesitate to encourage anyone to do that, because the truth of the matter is the world we live in is full of technology, and if you just completely say you can't have it, and the next thing you know they're 18, they go off to college or whatever the age is, and you give it to them, they haven't been in the home where you've been training them up how to manage your time with it, put, you know, limits on the time, how much you can spend on it, that kind of thing, and so it's like you're never going to outsmart your children in technology. They're already smarter than you are, but it's like how can you help them with the time management, you know, letting, talking with them about like what they're putting before their eyes on the technology, that kind of thing. The same goes for TV. You know, we would never watch something in front of our children that we would want them to think is normal ever, you know, and so it's like it's not, we don't want to normalize that. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (42:07 - 42:33) ‍ ‍ That's good, and really I'm hearing this theme, a key ingredient for everything we've discussed so far is actually a fruit of the spirit, self-control. So, knowing that discipline and self-control are actually going to lead to freedom, how can we help our children grow up to live an appropriately disciplined life? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (42:34 - 45:53) ‍ ‍ Yeah, my dad used to say this thing all the time. He would say, "The slave to the compass has the freedom of the seas. The rest must sail close to the shore," and it's so true. I mean, we have, if you want to do that, you have to come under the authority of the boat. In other words, you can't just do whatever you want on a boat and be able to sail the whole ocean. It doesn't work that way. You have to follow the captain's orders, and you have to follow the mechanisms that make the ship move, right? And so, it's like, but if you do that, if you master that, if you're a slave to the compass, to the sails, so the way the boat works, you can have the freedom of the seas. And the same is true of discipline and of self-control, right? We must exhibit that in order to have freedom. ‍ ‍ And so, when our children exhibited obedience and discipline and self-control, we then gave them more freedom, you know, more responsibilities. And then when they didn't follow instructions, like my daughter with the cell phone, you know, they didn't do what was expected of them. We pulled in the reins a little bit. Dave Ramsey, years and years ago, before I, my children were older, he shared the analogy of the rope, and I loved it because he said, you know, the more your children exhibit responsibility, making the right choices, they're being obedient, you let out that rope. And that one end, it's almost like you've got a rope around their waist. You're letting it out, letting them experience more independence. But then the second that they don't do that, you kind of rein it back in. If they make a poor choice, they stay out past their curfew, whatever it might be, you pull it back in. And so, it's a very important analogy for his family. ‍ ‍ So important though, when his oldest daughter went off to college, Rachel, you know, she goes off to college, he wraps up this beautiful gift, and it was a rope. And it was the rope with the round. And he said, and it had, he tied things on it, like she went to Tennessee, I think. So, it had like an orange thing on it. And then it had the colors of her high school and all these things that represented her life. And he said, "Hey, for 18 years, I've been holding on to this end of the rope. But now it's time I let it go. And I'm giving it to you; you're going to manage that rope all on your own." And so, it meant the world to her because they knew how important and so she put it on her doorknob in her dorm room. And every time she left and entered, she saw that, you know, that rope realizing that she was responsible for how far she let that thing out and how far she pulled that in. And so, discipline, self-discipline is huge. ‍ ‍ You know, at the end of the day, we just wanted to show our children that discipline and self-control, it isn't a restriction, right? It's the pathway to freedom. And I've got to tell you; my kids are more disciplined than I am. I mean, my two oldest sons are 26 and 25. And they set timers on their phone. And so, they literally can only and each other has the passcode so they can't even override it. They can only be on their phone for three hours a day at all for anything. And they do it during the hours where they're at work, so that they know they can't be on it anyway. I mean, it's already self-limiting. And it's like they know that this is a temptation, they don't want to waste that time. And so, and when you see a child when you train up a child and discipline, it's amazing how it spills over into other areas. You know, they both are very disciplined with how many books they read, how far they run every day. Like, I mean, they're very disciplined individuals, because I think it's contagious. You know, that just self-discipline just kind of permeates all the other areas of your life as well. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (45:54 - 46:06) ‍ ‍ And that is so encouraging, because I guess I just envision like, we're planting seeds, and we've gotten to hear a few of the seeds that you planted. And now it grows up even bigger than you could have probably ever asked or imagined. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:06 - 46:22) ‍ ‍ Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes their discipline frustrates me, because like, I'll need to talk to them, and they're on like a 23-mile run, and they can't talk or, you know, like, I'll want to call them. And they're like, "Mom, I can't use my phone right now." And I'm like, "Come on," you know, but they are, they are disciplined. I just drives me crazy sometimes. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (46:23 - 46:36) ‍ ‍ Oh, I love that so much. So, Elizabeth, as parents, what else can we do now to help our kids eventually reach maturity and independence as adults? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:37 - 51:07) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I mean, again, I can't say it enough. Childhood is meant to be the training ground for independence. So, every single day, they are training you or you are training them. And it's like, are you training them up for independence, maturity? Are you training them up to be dependent upon you? Are you teaching them that your proximity is what keeps them safe? And it's like, okay, so we're going to make these choices when they're young, might be harder on us, because I have mom say to me all the time, you know, I mean, it's just easier when I do it. And I'm like, it is, or they're like, they'll never do a job as good as I do. They won't. But you know what, it's like, it doesn't matter. It's not about what's easy on us. It's what's best for them for the long run. ‍ ‍ So, you know, goes back to that book we talked about, but you can really just think of Kay's book, you can really think about anything that you want to know that you want them to know how to do well and reach maturity and master whatever that is. And, you know, most people, not intentionally, but subconsciously think, oh my goodness, by magic at the stroke of their 18th birthday at midnight, you know, they're just going to know how to do these things. And they don't, they don't know how to do these things. ‍ ‍ I mean, my oldest son went off to college and two weeks after he went off, I came back home and I was at Target. And I ran into this lady and who'd also dropped off her daughter. And she said to me, "How are you doing?" And I said, "I'm fine. How are you?" She goes, "I mean, are you, are you managing?" And I'm like, "Managing what?" And she's like, "Without your son." And I said, "Yes," she would help my son. She goes, "Well, I have to ask you how many times have you been up there?" And I said, "Since two weeks ago when we dropped them off?" And she said, "Yeah." And I said, "I haven't should I ask how many times you've been up there?" She was well, one time she called me because I forgot to teach her how to use her diabetic medicine. So, I had to drive and teach her how to do that. And I thought, okay, in my mind, I'm thinking that was kind of a really big deal to not know how to do. And then she said, "And then another time she called me, and she chewed me out because I didn't pack laundry detergent for her." And I thought, "Oh, you packed her stuff. She didn't do that." And she said, "Well, I mean, you know, I just was doing it for her." And she goes, "I had to tell her I did pack laundry detergent." And she said, "No, the only thing I've seen you pack are those little round things that I've seen you put in the dishwasher." Oh, no, this is what she tells me. And I was like that she's seeing you put in the dishwasher. She goes, "I had to tell her that laundry pods are made too. So, I had to go up and teach her how to do laundry." And then the third time I just missed her. So, I went up there, but I thought, wow, like we are training them to fly from us. ‍ ‍ You know, that is the ultimate goal is that they are independent, that they can leave us. But the hardest thing about it is accepting that success. If you do it well, because that's the last thing you want to do is have your child not need you anymore. Moms thrive on being needed, particularly by our children. But honestly, that is what God gave them to us for so that they can go out and launch onto their own. So, we just started training them up as soon as we possibly could on little things like solving problems or managing their own schedules. That's a big one. You shouldn't be asking them what homework do you have? What tests do you have? What paper do you have? How can I help you? Don't do that tonight because you've got to do your homework. Let them manage their own schedules. Let them set their own alarms. If they oversleep it, there is a natural consequence. So, they won't keep doing that anymore. ‍ ‍ And I mean, I had a daughter that slept through every alarm we ever set. It didn't matter how loud it was. So, I was not going to give into that. So, we literally bought an alarm that was a round ball. And on this round ball, it would be on the floor. And when her alarm would go off, it would roll away from her bed. And so, she couldn't not turn it off. She'd have to get out of bed to turn it off. And so, I mean, there's ways you can do it if you really want to. But, you know, training them up how to advocate for themselves. Most children don't know how to advocate for themselves, which is why the most recent stat right now on Fox News, I saw it two months ago, 29% of college graduates are taking their parents with them to their job interviews. 29% are taking their parents with them. They're 23 years old. Think about that. Let that set in. You know, teaching them how to shop for, prepare, cook meals. You have conflict, healthy conflict. Recover from mistakes. You know, try again. I mean, our job, I've already said it, but our job is not to make their lives easy. And it's not to do what's easy for us. It's to make them capable. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (51:10 - 51:38) ‍ ‍ Wow. You have been so inspirational to learn from. And one more thing on that. When, if we're very encouraged, we're going to be more consistent and do this thoughtfully, intentionally. When we meet resistance from our kids, what encouragement do you have for us, regardless of their age, whether they're whining about it when they're younger, throwing a temper tantrum or giving attitude? What would you encourage us with there? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (51:38 - 54:03) ‍ ‍ Well, it's not very encouraging, but you will meet resistance. You will. I mean, why would they ever, I mean, my kids had to make their own lunches starting in kindergarten. And my daughter Walker would come home every day and I'm the only one that has to make their own lunch, you know? And I'm like, "You know what? You get to put in your lunch, whatever you want. Every other child has to eat what their mom makes them eat." You know, I'm like trying to show her these things, but the truth is you are going to be met with resistance. But if it ever crosses that line into disrespect, that first and foremost needs to be handled first, without a doubt. There's never a reason for disrespect. And if you allow that disrespect in your sons, they will grow up to be men that disrespect their wives. If you allow that in your children, they will grow up to be employees that disrespect their employees. And on, you know, you reap what you sow. So, it's like, I am not going to allow that. ‍ ‍ Having said that we make our chores on the whiteboard so that there is no nagging, there is no reminding, there is none of that. And so, we put it on there. They know it has to be done. And if it's not done, they don't sit down for dinner. And then once our kids hit middle school and they had practices after school and high school practices and things like that, they couldn't do it before dinner because they didn't get home until dinner or sometimes afterwards. So, it had to be done before they went to bed. And if they didn't, I didn't nag, I didn't get upset with them. But the next day when they walked up and saw the whiteboard, their second chore was incredibly time consuming and incredibly hard because they did not do the chore from the day before. Because again, we're modeling real life. Just because you had a full day doesn't mean you get to walk in the door, kick off your heels at night and just assert all your responsibilities. Not at all. You have to still do it. And so, it's like you've chosen to play these sports. You've chosen to do these travel things and you're still a part of this family. So, it's like encourage them in a way to do these things that doesn't impact you. Like you don't want to get into this, you know, match back and forth trying to explain to them why it's important. It's just a rule. It is what it is. That's why I like it on the whiteboard. There's no, there's no having to nag, having to check, but just don't allow the disrespect is the big thing when they kind of meet you with resistance. But again, what child's going to be like, "Sure, mom, I want to take on this." They're not going to, you know, I, like I said, my oldest, he did not enjoy doing all the things that he had to do. And there came a day he went to college and he was so grateful, so grateful that he knew how to do those things. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (54:04 - 54:07) ‍ ‍ So, we're going for that long term. Thank you. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (54:07 - 54:09) ‍ ‍ Always, always long game parenting. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (54:10 - 54:19) ‍ ‍ Well, Elizabeth, you have given us so much in these weeks together, but where would you like to direct us to continue learning from you after this chat? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (54:19 - 54:49) ‍ ‍ Well, if women live in Atlanta, we do have the exchange, which is local and coming, and I would love for them to come to that. We also have our podcasts on purpose with, which encourages women to live on purpose and with intention. You know, I just absolutely love connecting with women that want to live wholeheartedly this one beautiful life we've been given. So, I'd love for them to reach out to me on Instagram. I've got my personal handle as Octomama. I also have the exchange US and long game parenting. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (54:50 - 55:09) ‍ ‍ Wonderful. We will provide all of those links in the show notes for today's episode. And I just have one more question for you. We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, Elizabeth, what is your savvy sauce? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (55:09 - 56:01) ‍ ‍ My savvy sauce today, based on what we've spoken about, I would say to the women listening to the very best of your ability, it's going to be difficult. It is not going to be easy, but to the very best of your ability, stop over functioning for your children. And over functioning is simply doing for your children what they can and should be doing for themselves. And my favorite mantra that I tell moms all the time is just because you can do provide or give doesn't mean you should just because you can do provide or give, it doesn't mean you should. So, if you want to have grateful children, do less, not more. You want to raise children that have a respect for other people, do less, not more. If you want to raise de

Bob Goff once said, “We won't be distracted by comparison if we're captivated by purpose.” That's especially true when it comes to money. Comparison tempts us to measure our success against someone else's income, lifestyle, investments, or possessions. But when we understand who we are in Christ and why God has entrusted resources to us, money becomes a tool for fulfilling God's purposes rather than a scorecard for measuring our worth. Jim Rasmussen, co-founder and brand ambassador at Pandowealth and a Certified Kingdom Advisor®, has spent years helping individuals, families, and business owners approach financial decisions with wisdom and purpose. Through that work, he has seen how easily comparison can creep into our financial lives—and how biblical stewardship can help us escape it. When Comparison Takes Root Comparison often begins innocently. For business owners, it might start by comparing sales, expenses, or profitability with another company. Before long, however, that same mindset can spill into personal finances. Who has the bigger house? Who takes better vacations? Who has accumulated more? Who seems further ahead? For high earners in particular, there can be a subtle temptation to connect net worth with self-worth. And without a clear sense of purpose, financial success can actually make the problem worse. A successful business should ultimately support a financial plan, and a financial plan should support the life God is calling us to live. But when that larger purpose hasn't been defined, it becomes easy to look around and simply copy what others are doing. That is where comparison begins replacing stewardship. Resources Are Gifts, Not Trophies 1 Peter 4:10 says: “As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace.” Biblical stewardship begins with recognizing that what we have is a gift from God. Our resources were never meant merely to become trophies that demonstrate how successful we are. They are entrusted to us so that we can serve others, provide for those God has placed in our care, practice generosity, and participate in His purposes. That perspective changes the questions we ask. Instead of asking, “How much more can I accumulate?” we begin asking, “How much do I actually need?” and “How might God want me to use the rest?” Rasmussen often encourages families to consider three questions: How much do I need?  How much do my children need?  What might God want me to do with the rest? Scripture doesn't give us a universal percentage for determining how much lifestyle is enough. That requires prayer, wisdom, and discernment—and for married couples, a willingness to seek the Lord together. The starting point is simple: seek God first. Know Your Financial Finish Line One of the dangers of comparison is that there is always someone with more. Without a financial finish line, “enough” continually moves farther away. A larger paycheck creates room for a larger house. A growing portfolio creates another wealth target. Greater success creates expectations for an even more expensive lifestyle. Defining “enough” can interrupt that cycle. A finish line isn't about creating an arbitrary limit or feeling guilty for enjoying God's provision. It is about intentionally deciding what level of resources is sufficient for your needs so that additional wealth can increasingly be directed toward generosity and other God-honoring purposes. It moves us from constantly asking, “What else can I get?” toward asking, “What has God entrusted to me, and what is it for?” Watch for Identity Drift One warning sign that comparison is taking hold is when possessions and accomplishments increasingly become part of how we describe ourselves. Our conversations begin revolving around the new car, lake house, vacation, clothes, investment returns, or latest purchase. None of those things are necessarily wrong. But they can become warning signs when possessions begin defining our identity. The Christian's identity is ultimately found in Christ—not in what we earn, own, accomplish, or accumulate. That foundation becomes especially important in a culture where social media gives us a constant window into what everyone else appears to have. Don't Copy Someone Else's Financial Plan Comparison can also shape the way we invest. Learning from others can certainly be wise. But blindly copying someone else's portfolio can be dangerous because their financial plan may have little to do with yours. Rasmussen compares it to taking a road trip. If your destination is New York but you follow someone driving west simply because they appear confident, you won't arrive where you intended. The same is true financially. Another investor may have a different time horizon, risk tolerance, income, family situation, or financial objective. What is appropriate for them may create unnecessary risk or anxiety for you. A good investment strategy should flow from your goals and convictions—not from whatever someone else happens to be doing. Purpose should determine the path. Let Gratitude Replace Comparison One of the most powerful ways to resist comparison is gratitude. When we intentionally recognize God's provision, our attention shifts from what we lack to what He has already supplied. That might mean keeping a gratitude journal, regularly thanking God for specific blessings, or simply creating more space for prayer. Rasmussen points to Psalm 139:23–24 as a helpful prayer: “Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts! And see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting!” That prayer invites God to expose the desires, fears, and anxieties that may be quietly pushing us toward comparison. Sometimes we need to pay attention to the tension we feel when someone else succeeds, purchases something new, or appears to be further ahead. Those reactions can reveal something about our own hearts. Give Yourself Permission to Use Money Purposefully Financial wisdom doesn't always mean saying no. Sometimes faithful stewardship means giving generously. Other times, it might mean taking the family vacation you have repeatedly postponed or spending money on something meaningful that fits within your financial plan. Rasmussen has seen families experience a genuine sense of relief when they realize that their financial plan gives them permission to act. Good planning can help answer the question, “Can we afford this?” But biblical financial planning should go deeper by asking, “Does this fit the purposes God has given us?” When the answer is yes, wise stewardship can sometimes mean confidently moving forward rather than endlessly accumulating out of fear. A Practical Step for This Week Start with prayer. Spend time with Psalm 139:23–24 and invite God to search your heart. Ask Him to reveal where comparison, fear, pride, or discontentment may be shaping your financial decisions. If you're married, consider having an honest conversation with your spouse. You might also ask a trusted friend or advisor a difficult but helpful question: What do you see in my life that I may be too close to see myself? Wise accountability can help expose patterns we overlook. And when fear of missing out begins creeping in, remember that you do not have to follow someone else's path. Their financial life is not your financial life. Seek God first and faithfully follow the purposes He has given you. The Cure for Comparison Ultimately, the comparison trap is about far more than money. It is an issue of the heart. The cure isn't accumulating enough to finally feel successful. There will always be another benchmark, another purchase, or another person who seems further ahead. Freedom begins when we remember who we are in Christ and recognize that everything we have belongs to God. When our identity is secure and our purpose is clear, money no longer needs to measure our success. It becomes something far better: a tool we can faithfully steward for God's purposes. On Today's Program, Rob Answers Listener Questions: I've heard you recommend a company for reverse mortgages, but I never caught the name. Which company do you suggest listeners contact? I'm retired and still have a 401(k) with my former employer. I thought RMDs started at age 70½, but I've also heard age 73. What age applies to me now? If I use Qualified Charitable Distributions (QCD's) for a few years, can I later stop and go back to receiving those withdrawals myself? Resources Mentioned: Faithful Steward: FaithFi's Quarterly Magazine (Become a FaithFi Partner) Pandowealth Movement Mortgage FaithFi Field Guide: How Much Money is Enough?  Our Ultimate Treasure: A 21-Day Journey to Faithful Stewardship by Rob West Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money Look At The Sparrows: A 21-Day Devotional on Financial Fear and Anxiety Rich Toward God: A Study on the Parable of the Rich Fool Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor® (CKA) FaithFi App Remember, you can call in to ask your questions every weekday at (800) 525-7000. Faith & Finance is also available on Moody Radio Network and American Family Radio. You can also visit FaithFi.com to connect with our online community and partner with us as we help more people live as faithful stewards of God's resources. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Bob Goff once said, “We won’t be distracted by comparison if we are captivated by purpose.” When we compare, we measure our success against someone else’s life. But when we understand who we are in Christ and why God has entrusted us with resources, money becomes a tool for our purpose, rather than a scorecard. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Rob West and Jim Rasmussen help us escape the comparison trap. Then, it’s on to calls. That’s Faith and Finance Live . . . biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. That’s weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio. Faith & Finance Live is a listener supported program on Moody Radio. To join our team of supporters, click here.To support the ministry of FaithFi, click here.To learn more about Rob West, click here.To learn more about Faith & Finance Live, click here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week Roger explains why rebalancing is one of the most important disciplines in retirement planning. In the Retirement Toolkit, he explores the difference between a traditional investment allocation and a retirement allocation, explaining how to organize your assets to support both your current lifestyle and your future needs. Along the way, he answers listener questions about speculative investments, the retirement red zone, the Rule of 55, and managing retirement cash reserves.OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE RETIREMENT ANSWER MAN(00:00) Roger explains why portfolios naturally drift over time and why rebalancing helps keep your retirement plan aligned with your long-term goals.RETIREMENT TOOLKIT(02:45) Roger explains how to rebalance a retirement portfolio, introduces his retirement allocation strategy, and shares practical tips for keeping your investments aligned with the life you want to live.LISTENER QUESTIONS(34:50) BB asks whether a high-risk AI cryptocurrency investment belongs in a retirement portfolio. Roger discusses separating speculative investments from retirement assets and investing with intention.(39:30) Jim asks how the retirement red zone changes for people who retire early. Roger explains sequence of returns risk and why its impact depends on factors like retirement age and overall funding.(44:16) Jamie asks how the Rule of 55 applies to her 401(k). Roger explains why eligibility depends on the employer's retirement plan and recommends checking with the plan administrator.(46:53) Pat asks how to replenish a retirement money market account each year. Roger discusses coordinating withdrawals with tax planning and maintaining flexibility in retirement income.SMART SPRINT(50:10) Roger encourages listeners to identify their target retirement allocation by defining how much they want in their contingency fund, income reserve, and long-term growth portfolio.ON THE BOOKSHELF (51:28) Nicole recommends Undistracted by Bob Goff, and Mark recommends Living Life in Crescendo by Stephen R. Covey and Cynthia Covey Haller. Roger shares his thoughts on lifelong growth and purpose in retirement. REFERENCESSubmit a Question for RogerSign up for The NoodleUndistracted: Capture Your Purpose. Rediscover Your Joy. by Bob GoffLiving Life In Crescendo by Stephen R. CoveyNote: The opinions expressed are for informational purposes only and should not replace personalized advice from licensed professionals.

Host Jo Reed talks with Kirkus young readers' editor Laura Simeon about three middle-grade audiobooks that explore difficult subjects with honesty, empathy, and respect for young listeners. In Phoenix by Kimberly Brubaker Bradley, narrator Emma Ladji brings warmth and steadiness to young Harper's story as she navigates her parents' divorce, shifting friendships, and the rescued horse who becomes central to her new life. Karise Yansen's calm, measured narration of Matthew Fox's The Lovely Dark grounds a lyrical story of grief, loss, and the afterlife in vivid emotional reality. And in Tae Keller's When Tomorrow Burns, a seamless ensemble cast—Eddy Lee, Annie Q. Riegel, Sara Matsui-Colby, Emily Woo Zeller, and Tae Keller—captures the uncertainty and intensity of middle school friendships unfolding against the backdrop of climate anxiety and change. Together, these audiobooks recognize that middle-grade kids confront complicated situations and deserve stories that speak to those uncertainties with honesty and care.   Audiobooks Discussed: Phoenix by Kimberly Brubaker Bradley, read by Emma Ladji (Listening Library)   The Lovely Dark by Matthew Fox, read by Karise Yansen (Hachette Audio)   When Tomorrow Burns by Tae Keller, read by Eddy Lee, Annie Q. Riegel, Sara Matsui-Colby, and Emily Woo Zeller (Listening Library)     Support for Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Savannah Guthrie, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and many more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host Jo Reed talks with contributor Leslie Fine about three audiobooks that range from memoir to thriller to literary biography. They begin with Unread: A Memoir of Learning (and Loving) To Read on TikTok by Oliver James, where narrator James Shippy brings warmth and enthusiasm to the author's account of achieving literacy as an adult and discovering the enduring pleasures of books. Then, they turn to Tiffany Crum's This Story Might Save Your Life. Driven by the energetic, emotionally layered narration of Julia Whelan and Sean Patrick Hopkins, its use of podcast clips, voicemail messages, and layered audio production heightens a suspenseful missing-person mystery. And they end with Judy Blume: A Life by Mark Oppenheimer; Molly Ringwald's warm, quietly authoritative narration guides listeners through the career of an author whose books have shaped generations of readers. Together, these audiobooks prove that the right narrator can turn a good story into an irresistible listen. Audiobooks Discussed: Unread: A Memoir of Learning (and Loving) To Read on TikTok by Oliver James, read by James Shippy (Hachette Audio) This Story Might Save Your Life by Tiffany Crum, read by Julia Whelan and Sean Patrick Hopkins (Macmillan Audio) Judy Blume: A Life by Mark Oppenheimer, read by Molly Ringwald and Mark Oppenheimer (Penguin Random House Audio)   Support for Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Savannah Guthrie, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From haunted New Jersey suburbs to melancholy Irish landscapes to the contested wilds of the American West, Alan Minskoff joins host Jo Reed to discuss three sharply different works of fiction in audio. Tom Perrotta's Ghost Town, narrated by Robert Petkoff, blends grief, adolescence, and the supernatural through Petkoff's nuanced character work, while Derbhle Crotty and Darragh Shannon bring quiet emotional precision to The News From Dublin, evoking the atmosphere of longing and displacement in Colm Tóibín's story collection. The conversation closes with Taylor Brown's Wolvers, read by Ramiz Monsef, whose vivid performance captures the tensions between ranchers, militias, environmentalists, and wolves in the modern West. These audiobooks may share little besides the genre of fiction, but each narrator creates a fully realized world listeners can step into and stay with long after the final chapter.   Audiobooks Discussed: Ghost Town by Tom Perrotta, read by Robert Petkoff (Simon & Schuster Audio) The News From Dublin: Stories by Colm Tóibín, read by Derbhle Crotty and Darragh Shannon (Simon & Schuster Audio) Wolvers by Taylor Brown, read by Ramiz Monsef (Recorded Books Inc.)   Support for Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Savannah Guthrie, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and many more.     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Za tokratno oddajo smo še enkrat odprli knjigo Boba Goffa, ki iz osebnih izkušenj predstavi, kako lahko izkoristimo dan v polnosti, znotraj odnosov do sebe in do drugih, uglašeni na najvišjo vrednoto ljubezni do sebe in bližnjega.

Nicholas Lares is the founder of Insur3Tech, a syndicated insurance group built for real estate owners and operators. Before entering real estate insurance, Nicholas was one of the largest brokers for Amazon's logistics network. When carrier exits threatened his clients' ability to operate, he helped them build a collective, self-insured alternative rather than accept the market's terms. That same model now powers Insurer Tech, which enables property owners, operators, and investors to retain the profits traditional insurers keep, averaging $28 million in annual distributions per 100,000 units.     Make sure to download our free guide, 7 Questions Every Passive Investor Should Ask, here.     Key Takeaways The traditional insurance market is a negative feedback loop: rising premiums drive more claims, which drive premiums higher Every premium you pay includes broker commissions, administrative overhead, and margin that never comes back to you Good-risk operators are pooled with bad-risk ones and effectively subsidize the market's worst performers Captive insurance gives participants a co-ownership stake and returns annual profits when the pool performs well Residents can be enrolled in the same captive, turning renters insurance into a separate profit center Getting into a captive earlier compounds the financial benefit significantly over 5 to 10 years     Topics Why Insurance Costs Keep Rising Pre-2020, insurance was a manageable expense; post-Covid, premiums surged to the point where operators began questioning the ROI Policyholders started filing more claims to justify rising costs, which accelerated the cycle further Carriers facing unsustainable losses began exiting markets entirely, most visibly in Florida, California, and Texas How Traditional Insurance Actually Works Premiums are priced on pooled risk across millions of policies, not based on your individual property's claims history Every premium includes roughly 30% in administrative costs, 10-15% in broker commissions, projected claims, and a margin buffer on top When the pool outperforms projections, the surplus flows to carrier shareholders, not policyholders The Captive Insurance Model Captive programs have existed for decades, originally built for Fortune 500 companies and large industrial operators A captive functions like a controlled bank account, backed by a reinsurance program, where unused premium returns to the owner Insurer Tech builds group cell captives, making co-ownership accessible to operators who cannot support a standalone captive independently How Insurer Tech Works Unnecessary margin layers, including excess broker commissions and profit buffers, are removed and redirected to members Year-end surplus is distributed to participants; there are no external shareholders Members choose their risk level: with or without reinsurance backing, depending on portfolio size and claims history The Leverage Problem in Traditional Insurance Clean-record operators have almost no meaningful leverage to negotiate premiums because pricing is determined by pooled market behavior Captives realign incentives: when participants think like owners, they manage risk more carefully and file fewer claims Moving good-risk operators out of the traditional pool separates them from the bad actors they were subsidizing Who Qualifies Insurer Tech works across all real estate types, including multifamily, single-family, self-storage, and commercial, as long as a lease agreement is in place The resident piece (renters insurance) typically targets 50+ units to generate a net surplus for the captive Operators with fewer units can pool with other investors in their market to meet the threshold A Real-World Example An 80-unit multifamily property in Georgia: total property insurance cost was $14,000 per year After captive returns, the net cost dropped to approximately $11,500 per year Resident renters insurance through the same captive generated roughly $20,000 in annual profit The result: the owner's insurance cost is fully offset, with a net surplus of approximately $9,000 per year    

FROM THE VAULT with Bob Goff: ✅ Why hovering over your family is one of the most important things you can do as a dad ✅ How to leave behind treasures your kids will discover long after you are gone ✅ The courage it takes to quit something that no longer fits and start fresh ✅ What Bob learned from his friends at San Quentin about feeding the people around you SUMMARY There are around 8 billion people alive right now, and there have been 107 billion who came before us. That context changes everything about how you spend today with your kids. In this From the Vault conversation, Bob Goff returns to talk about hovering over your family the way God hovered over the earth, leaving behind treasures your kids will discover for years to come, and finding the courage to make bold moves when something in your life needs to change. Bob shares why being fully present matters more than providing, how to live a "no capes" kind of life, and why the small moments will be the bookmarks your kids carry forever. TAKEAWAYS The kind of grandfather you want to be will be a byproduct of the kind of dad you are right now. Hovering over each person in your family means asking what they uniquely need that only you could provide. Living a "no capes" life means doing meaningful things without making a big deal about them. Your family needs you fully present far more than they need what you provide. When something in your life stops fitting, having the courage to quit and start fresh can change everything. GUEST Bob Goff is the bestselling author of Love Does, Everybody Always, Dream Big, and Undistracted, along with several children's books co-written with his daughter Lindsey. He is the founder of Love Does, a nonprofit that operates schools and safe houses for children in conflict zones around the world. Bob and his wife, Sweet Maria, live in San Diego and spend much of their time at The Oaks, where they host gatherings for dreamers and world changers. They have three grown children and several grandchildren.   Quotes "The kind of grandfather you want to be will be a byproduct of the kind of dad that you are." — Bob Goff "Hover over each person in your family. What does kid number one need that I could only uniquely provide them?" — Bob Goff "What your family really needs you to provide is you, like, fully present." — Bob Goff "Sometimes the familiar will get in the way of what's actually possible." — Bob Goff "Everybody doesn't get a slice, but everybody's fed." — Bob Goff Links Join the DadAwesome Prayer Team: Text "pray" to (651) 370-8618 Send a Voice Message to DadAwesome Apply to join the next DadAwesome Accelerator Cohort Subscribe to DadAwesome Messages: Text the word "Dad" to (651) 370-8618 Send a Voice Message to DadAwesome 7-Day Video Series: dadawesome.org/book DadAwesome Podcast: dadawesome.org/podcast Free Chapter + Intro Video Series: dadawesome.org/book Apply to join the next DadAwesome Accelerator Cohort: Email awesome@dadawesome.org Subscribe to DadAwesome Messages: Text "Dad" to (651) 370-8618 Dad Awesome book: dadawesome.org/book https://www.bobgoff.com/ Bob's BOOKS

On this episode of the Bob Goff & Friends, Bob sits down with longtime friend and leadership expert Henry Cloud for an honest conversation about growth, change, and becoming the person you're meant to be. Together, they unpack what it really takes to move from where you are to where you want to be, whether that's in your relationships, your work, your faith, or your personal healing. Henry shares insights from his brand-new book, Your Desired Future, and explains the five essential elements that help people make meaningful progress in life.It's a thoughtful and encouraging conversation about vision, purpose, mentorship, forgiveness, and building a life that's not just productive, but deeply meaningful.Connect with Henry: @drhenrycloudofficialConnect with Bob: @bobgoff--Join Bob and his friends for a workshop out at the Oaks! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

Writing a book can feel overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be. In this Writing Room conversation, Bob Goff, Kimberly Stuart, and Allison Trowbridge talk about what actually helps, focusing on one reader, one clear idea, and the courage to start messy and figure it out as you go. Along the way, Allie shares how her work with Copper Books is helping authors navigate the publishing process in a more thoughtful, supported way.If you've been thinking about writing a book but aren't sure where to begin, this episode is a great place to start. And if you're ready to take a step further, Allie is hosting a Book Fair in Nashville on May 8, a one-day gathering designed to help aspiring authors understand the full journey from idea to publication and connect with others doing the same.

Explore the true value of time with host Phillip Ramsey in the Uncommon Wealth Podcast. Delve into the importance of intentionality and time management, reflecting on how our time choices reveal personal values and priorities. Ramsey shares insights on balancing life's obligations, enhancing relationships through quality interactions, and the impact of technology on our time. He references Bob Goff's approach to being generous with time. Consider how financial planning intertwines with gaining more time, and find inspiration to lead an uncommon and fulfilling life.

In today's episode of Leaders in Living Rooms, Sean Morgan sits down with Bob Goff for a candid and refreshing conversation about leadership, identity, and returning to your “first love.” Bob unpacks the subtle ways leaders can drift into isolation—viewing people as projects rather than relationships—and shares practical, courageous ways to reset. From quitting his own law firm to encouraging teams to submit annual “mass resignations,” Bob challenges leaders to reapply for the job that is truly them. The conversation also explores his newest project, A Journey with Jesus, filmed in the Holy Land, designed to create safe spaces for honest conversations about faith. With humor, depth, and humility, Bob reminds leaders that we're not chasing efficiency—we're pursuing faithfulness. Welcome to Episode 155 of the Leaders in Living Rooms Podcast with Sean Morgan.

In the past, Christian fundamentalism was defined by a literal reading of the Bible and conservative social values. They believed in things like a seven-day creation, the rapture, prophecies about the return of Jesus, and supporting the state of Israel. But data shows that fewer evangelicals hold these beliefs, but that doesn't mean fundamentalism is going away. Skye and Kaitlyn are joined by Mike Erre to discuss the changing definition of Christian fundamentalism in America, and why the older variety may have been better. Then Bob Goff talks about his new video project through the Holy Land called "A Journey with Jesus," and how he sustains his joy in these angry times. Also this week—why is Gen Z drinking less alcohol?   Get Tickets to a Holy Post Live Recording with Lecrae on April 22, 2026: https://hubs.ly/Q046WJPg0   Holy Post Plus: My Hill to Die On: https://www.patreon.com/posts/153191886/ Ad-Free Version of this Episode:   https://www.patreon.com/posts/153302907/   0:00 - Show Starts   3:34 - Theme Song   3:56 - Sponsor - Feeding America - Feeding America, led by neighbors! Give now to end hunger at https://www.feedingamerica.org   4:33 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.SundaysForDogs.com/HOLYPOST or use code HOLYPOST at checkout.   5:46 - Why Aren't People Drinking Alcohol?   16:52 - Creationism Isn't Very Common   27:50 - The Anti-Israel New Right   37:50 - Why Are Evangelicals Less Pro-Israel?   52:26 - Sponsor - Rocket Money - Find and cancel your old subscriptions with Rocket Money at https://www.rocketmoney.com/HOLYPOST   53:28 - Sponsor - PolicyGenius - Secure your family's tomorrow so you have peace of mind today. Go to https://www.policygenius.com/HOLYPOST to find the right life insurance for you   54:34 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month!   55:37 - Interview   58:59 - Why'd Bob Goff Write A Journey with Jesus?   1:07:34 - Maintaining Authenticity   1:25:50 - End Credits   Links Mentioned in News Segment: Alcohol's Not Popular? https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/16/dining/us-alcohol-restaurants.html   Israel, Rapture, and the Right: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2026/03/08/gop-maga-israel-evangelicals-theology-premillennialism-00818312   Creationism's Not That Common: https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/creationism-isnt-as-common-as-you   Other Resources: A Journey with Jesus by Bob Goff: https://a.co/d/0eU7SveP   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/   Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus   Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost   Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.  

What does it really look like to live out the love of Jesus in everyday life?In this inspiring and often hilarious conversation, Willow sits down with bestselling author, attorney, and founder of Love Does, Bob Goff. Known for his joyful spirit and unconventional approach to faith, Bob shares stories and wisdom about living a life that moves from the sidelines to the field—where love becomes something we do, not just something we talk about.Bob reflects on the power of availability, why influence matters, and how taking a genuine interest in people can transform relationships. Through stories about answering phone calls from strangers, building friendships across the world, and helping others pursue their dreams, he challenges us to live courageously and intentionally.He also shares a powerful spiritual practice of looking into both the “eye of forgiveness” and the “eye of responsibility” in Jesus—reminding us that faith invites both grace and growth.This episode will leave you encouraged to live boldly, love deeply, and take your faith off the bleachers and onto the field.In This Episode, You'll Hear AboutWhy Bob spends nights at Disneyland giving strangers a shortcut to the front of the lineMoving from watching life to actively participating in itThe difference between controlling outcomes and influencing peopleWhy being available might be one of the most powerful ways to love othersThe importance of taking a genuine interest in people's storiesAbout Bob GoffBob Goff is a New York Times bestselling author, attorney, and founder of the nonprofit Love Does. Known for his contagious joy and practical approach to faith, Bob has inspired millions through books like Love Does and his global work advocating for justice, education, and opportunity. His life message is simple but powerful: love isn't just something we say—it's something we do.https://wecollide.net/books/collide/https://wecollide.net/conferences/Follow Willow: Website | Instagram | Facebook

With his signature whimsy and curiosity, bestselling author Bob Goff takes us on a journey with the Savior in his new book, A Journey with Jesus: An Interactive Guide Through the Holy Land. Bob shares what being in Israel and walking where Jesus walked taught him about wonder. You'll hear about Bob's adventures in the cockpit of an airplane, the tenacity of faithful friends, and the beauty of experiencing life in person (not just watching a screen). 2:39 The Power of Second Touches and Authenticity 3:53 Making Bible Study Accessible for All 7:21 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity 13:00 The Value of Lame Friends and What They Can Teach Us 18:06 Keeping Eyes Fixed on Jesus Amidst Challenges 19:52 The Impact of Curiosity and Travel Connect with Bob Goff and grab his book at bobgoff.com. More Resources from Arlene Pellicane: SUBSCRIBE to Arlene's newsletter "What I'm Learning This Week" and get the checklist, 7 Warning Signs of Screen Overuse. Check out Arlene's BOOKS including Parents Rising, Screen Kids, and Making Marriage Easier. Follow Arlene on Instagram and/or Facebook Go to Arlene's YouTube Channel How did Arlene's kids adapt to not having phones, video games or social media? Watch the free video, Screen Kids: In Their Own Words. Have a question for Arlene to address on the podcast? Want to invite Arlene to speak to your group? Email speaking@arlenepellicane.com Not sure about a smartphone for your child? Check out the Gabb Wireless phone for kids and teens (use the promo code ARLENE) Learn more about Every Woman's Bible today by visiting: https://hubs.la/Q0427v7r0 Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Ministry can feel heavy even when you love Jesus deeply. In this episode of FrontStage BackStage, Bob Goff joins Jason Daye for an honest, encouraging conversation about staying close to Jesus when the work of ministry becomes weighty.Ministry can be meaningful and heavy at the same time.In this episode of FrontStage BackStage, Jason Daye sits down with Bob Goff for a deeply honest, pastoral conversation about what it means to walk with Jesus when ministry feels heavy.Rather than focusing on performance, platforms, or productivity, Bob invites pastors and ministry leaders to return to closeness with Jesus, formation over information, and practices that keep faith grounded in real life.Together, they explore:Why ministry often crowds out intimacy with JesusHow insecurity and pressure quietly shape leadersThe difference between agreeing with Jesus and actually following HimWhy formation matters more than more contentHow small, faithful practices can reshape the way we live and leadWhat encouragement pastors need when they feel tired, discouraged, or uncertainBob Goff is a New York Times bestselling author, speaker, and longtime advocate for living out a practical, love fueled faith. He is the author of several books, including his latest release, A Journey with Jesus, an interactive guide that invites readers to experience the life and teachings of Jesus through Scripture, story, and filmed experiences from the Holy Land.This conversation is especially for pastors and ministry leaders who:Love Jesus deeply but feel stretched thinAre navigating pressure, expectations, and constant noiseLong to stay spiritually grounded without burning outWant to lead from authenticity rather than obligationFrontStage BackStage exists to care for the whole life of ministry leaders, both the public FrontStage and the personal BackStage, because healthy ministry flows from a healthy, well tended soul.If ministry feels heavy right now, this conversation is for you.Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? FrontStage BackStage is much more than another church leadership show, it is a complete resource to help you and your ministry leaders grow. Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed.Visit http://PastorServe.org/network to find the Weekly Toolkit, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. Our team pulls key insights and quotes from every conversation with our guests. We also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how each episode's topic relates to your unique church context. Use these questions in your staff meetings, or other settings, to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders. Love well, live well, & lead well Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession Follow PastorServe LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | FacebookConnect with Jason Daye LinkedIn | Instagram...

In this episode of the Bob Goff and Friends podcast, Bob sits down with his friend Christine Caine for a conversation about faith, courage, and what it really looks like to flourish. They talk about shifting gears in life, embracing new adventures, and refusing to let past wounds define the future. Christine shares about her work rescuing victims of human trafficking and how resilience is built through deep roots and strong community, much like the olive tree she writes about in her new book.Connect with Bob: @bobgoffConnect with Christine: @christinecaineGrab a copy of her new book, The Faith to Flourish.--Join Bob at an upcoming workshop: bobgoff.com/events

Do you feel busy all day but still behind. Scattered. Spiritually foggy. This episode is for the woman who wants to focus on God but keeps getting pulled in ten directions.In this solo episode of Faith Fueled Living, Kristin talks honestly about how distraction shows up in everyday life and why it quietly steals our peace, clarity, and sense of purpose. She shares a powerful insight from Bob Goff that reframed how she sees spiritual resistance. Not as destruction. As distraction.You will learn 3 to 4 practical, faith centered ways to reduce noise, reset your attention, and create space to hear God again. This is not about doing more. It is about choosing what actually matters.If you feel stretched thin, disconnected, or frustrated with yourself for losing focus, this conversation will help you name what is happening and take simple steps forward.Takeaways• Distraction is not random. It often targets what matters most. • Constant busyness can block clarity and spiritual growth. • Focus is a spiritual practice, not a personality trait. • Small daily choices can help you realign with God's direction.Download My Free Joyful Living Devotional: https://kristinfitch.com/devotionalReady to take your first step towards a more joyful, faith-filled life? Download our Reignite Your Passion Workbook and start living with purpose today!What to feel more energized in midlife? Grab my 5 Day Energy Reset Jump Start Guide here.Ready to work with Kristin to make a shift in your life? Click here to get started.Christian women podcast, faith and focus, overcoming distraction as a Christian, spiritual focus for busy women, hearing God clearly, Christian mindset and clarity, faith based personal growth, women of faith and purpose, Christian encouragement for overwhelmed women, intentional living with God

In this episode, Christina Semmens shares insights on how to deepen your prayer life, embrace the Cross, and live out the Gospel with purpose and hope. She invites listeners into a meaningful Lenten journey centered on Scripture, virtue, and community, emphasizing that holiness is a daily choice rooted in God's grace.TakeawaysUsing the Particular Examen guided by the five wounds of Jesus to confront hidden faults and sinsThe importance of daily dialogue with the Word of God and how Scripture breathes life into our soulsVirtues inspired by the saints, like humility, poverty, patience, and obedience, and how to cultivate themThe significance of loving the Cross in small, everyday ways by trusting in God's planThe role of righteous anger and prayer in responding to injustice without divisionHow baptism and the Holy Spirit empower us as priests, prophets, and kings to bring Christ into our daily livesPractical steps to begin loving the Cross, bearing suffering with faith, and finding joy amidst trialsRecognizing that each person's path to holiness is unique, guided by the Holy SpiritTimestamps00:00 - Welcome and introduction to the Lent journey 00:28 - Announcing the Say Yes to Holinessonline retreat 00:57 - UsingRooting Out Hidden Faults for spiritual growth 1:21 - TheParticular Examen and its focus on Jesus' wounds 2:16 - Gratitude and review as tools for prayer 3:13 - Addressing the seven deadly sins through Scripture 4:08 - Pope Francis on making Sunday a day rooted in God's Word 5:05 - Meditating on Scripture beyond Mass 6:02 - The living nature of God's Word and its ongoing relevance 7:28 - Continuing the dialogue with Jesus throughout the day 8:44 - The importance of making space for God's Word daily 9:45 - St. Ignatius of Loyola's call to live for God's glory 10:40 - Baptismal call to holiness and present in every moment 11:39 - Responding to injustice with prayer and Righteous Anger 12:42 - The Holy Spirit within us and our divine calling 13:17 - The nonviolent power of Christ's sacrifice 14:17 - Embracing peace and hope through the Holy Spirit 15:39 - Virtues of humility, patience, obedience taught by St. Anthony 16:34 - The diversity of paths to holiness guided by the Holy Spirit 17:22 - The common traits of saints and how love unites us 18:09 - Love does—how Christian love manifests in action (Bob Goff) 18:57 - Allowing the Spirit to guide our words and actions 19:13 - Rooting in prayer, sacraments, and virtue for a holy life 20:09 - Responding to injustice with humility and prayer 21:08 - The importance of righteous anger guided by the Holy Spirit 21:36 - Avoiding division and trusting in God's truth 22:09 - Comparing ourselves only to Jesus, not others 22:52 - The one path to holiness: your unique journey 23:21 - Loving the Cross through acceptance and trust in God 23:50 - Carrying suffering with love and presence of Christ 24:33 - Embracing pain as part of God's divine plan 25:32 - Finding goodness and truth in suffering 26:17 - The journey from bearing to loving the Cross 27:14 - Trusting God to bring joy and purpose through suffering 28:11 - Mary as our model of faithful acceptance 28:52 - Asking Our Lady and saints to guide us in carrying crosses 29:21 - Closing prayer, encouragement, and invitation to the Lent retreatResources and LinksRooting Out Hidden Faults, How the Particular Examine Conquers Sin by Father James McElhoneySay Yes to Holiness (Substack platform)Love Does by Bob GoffSt. Ignatius of LoyolaSt. Anthony of PaduaTwitterWebsiteJoin the Lent Online Retreat:Send a message to Christina at: https://www.sayyestoholiness.com/

In this episode, Bob Goff sits down with his friend Danielle Walker for a conversation about health, courage, and choosing to lean into change rather than pull away from it. Danielle shares how a medical crisis in her early twenties led her on an unexpected journey with food, healing, and purpose. Together, they talk about vulnerability, discernment, and what it looks like to share your story while you're still living it. This episode is an encouragement for anyone facing a hard season and wondering if the very thing that challenged them might also be the thing that helps others.Connect with Bob: @bobgoffConnect with Danielle: @daniellewalkerYou can also find Danielle on Substack.Join Bob at an upcoming workshop: bobgoff.com/events

Join host Phillip Ramsey as he unveils the philosophy behind the Uncommon Wealth Podcast's 15-minute free consultation, accentuating its purpose of equipping individuals to live an uncommon life. Inspired by Bob Goff's generous approach, Phillip emphasizes the strategy of offering immense value upfront without expecting immediate returns. He also shares insights from his interaction with Goff, shedding light on the importance of intentionality and presence. Discover how this unconventional approach nurtures meaningful connections while exploring the value of pursuing your unique financial journey.

Discover a fresh new podcast for ministry leaders full of raw encouragement plus insanely-practical tips and interviews.Subscribe now to Fearless Leadership and grab more free leadership resources at JonathanHerron.com and on all social media platforms @DrJonHerron!

Brian From moves from heartwarming viral stories and frigid-weather musings to deeper reflections on habits, comparison, and the spiritual “ice” that keeps us from seeing clearly. He wrestles with cultural debates—from extravagant church Christmas productions to surprising zoo controversies—while continually inviting listeners back to the hope, clarity, and stability found in Jesus, our firm foundation. As Christmas approaches, Brian urges us to shed the weights that entangle, embrace our God-given callings, and remember that even amid rubble, Christ holds every story together. Bob Goff on Escaping the Comparison Trap and Finding Your Real Purpose - RELEVANT 'Tax-free grift': Critics already furious about Texas church's Christmas show Held Together by a Cornerstone - Christianity Today Equipping a New Generation for Mission and the Urbana Conference Dr. Derwin L. Gray on X: ""On average, young adults remain much less religious than older Americans,” reads the report released Monday (Dec. 8). “Today’s young adults also are less religious than young people were a decade ago.” https://t.co/9ZQv6rFuIa" / X My Top 10 Theology Stories of 2025 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host Jo Reed and AudioFile's Laura Rossi highlight three recent Earphones Award-winning audiobooks. AudioFile awards Earphones to exceptional audio experiences—it's our version of a starred review, specifically for the audiobook. Laura and Jo discuss: THE SLIP a story about a missing teenage boy, by Lucas Schaefer, read by Shaun Taylor-Corbett and Renata Friedman; WE THE PEOPLE: A History of the U.S. Constitution by Jill Lepore, read by the author; and LIVING IS DYING: How to Prepare for Death, Dying, and Beyond, by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse, read by Michael Imperioli. They share why these audiobooks won Earphones, and why they are well worth your listening time.  Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  THE SLIP: Published by Simon & Schuster Audio WE THE PEOPLE: Published by Recorded Books LIVING IS DYING: Published by Shambhala Publications Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website    Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus,, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host Jo Reed welcomes AudioFile publisher Michele Cobb to discuss three powerful memoirs, narrated by their authors. Booker Prize–winning writer Arundhati Roy returns with a complex look at her relationship with her challenging and ‘visionary,' mother in MOTHER MARY COMES TO ME; an unflinching, polarizing memoir about Elizabeth Gilbert's sex and love addiction in ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER; and VAGABOND, a restrained dive into the long, varied career of inimitable actor Tim Curry. Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  MOTHER MARY COMES TO ME: Published by Simon & Schuster Audio ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER: Published by Penguin Audio VAGABOND: Published by Hachette Audio Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today host Jo Reed welcomes AudioFile's founder and editor, Robin Whitten, to discuss Phillip Pullman's world and THE ROSE FIELD, read by Michael Sheen, the much anticipated conclusion of the extraordinary epic fantasy. It began in 1999 with THE GOLDEN COMPASS and with the story of Lyra Silvertongue, in an all-time-favorite full-cast performance. Lyra's story plays out over six audiobooks—a double trilogy, HIS DARK MATERIALS and THE BOOK OF DUST. We could revel in Pullman's alternate universe for hours, but for this episode, Jo and Robin compare the different narrations and storytelling styles of the audiobooks that bring Pullman's imagination to us.  Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  THE ROSE FIELD:  Published by Listening Library THE GOLDEN COMPASS: Published by Listening Library THE BOOK OF DUST: Published by Listening Library Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus,, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today host Jo Reed welcomes AudioFile's founder and editor, Robin Whitten, to discuss Phillip Pullman's world and THE ROSE FIELD, read by Michael Sheen, the much anticipated conclusion of the extraordinary epic fantasy. It began in 1999 with THE GOLDEN COMPASS and with the story of Lyra Silvertongue, in an all-time-favorite full-cast performance. Lyra's story plays out over six audiobooks—a double trilogy, HIS DARK MATERIALS and THE BOOK OF DUST. We could revel in Pullman's alternate universe for hours, but for this episode, Jo and Robin compare the different narrations and storytelling styles of the audiobooks that bring Pullman's imagination to us.  Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  THE ROSE FIELD:  Published by Listening Library THE GOLDEN COMPASS: Published by Listening Library THE BOOK OF DUST: Published by Listening Library Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website   Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host Jo Reed welcomes AudioFile contributor Alan Minskoff this week to dig into three new audiobooks that delight and satirize, often using humor to shed light on social issues. Three unlikely characters bond in an anger management class in SNAP, a comedic novel by Susin Nielsen and read by Carol Schneider; a failed poet with a snarky alter-ego struggles with an autoimmune disease and a polyamorous wife in the debut novel OLD SCHOOL INDIAN by Aaron John Curtis, read by Jason Grasl; and a teenage flag-twirler switches sides in the satirical Civil War-era novel HOW TO DODGE A CANNONBALL by Dennard Dayle, read by William DeMeritt. Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  SNAP: Published by Harper Audio OLD SCHOOL INDIAN: Published by Hillman Grad Books HOW TO DODGE A CANNONBALL: Published by Macmillan Audio Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website   Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week is special. I've got my lovely bride, Melanie Durkin, back on the podcast—and for good reason. September is Mental Health Awareness Month, and this conversation hits close to home. Melanie shares her powerful story of losing her 19-year-old brother to suicide back in 1998, how it rocked her world, and the healing journey that followed. Together, we open up about grief, faith, family, and the daily habits that support mental wellness. In this episode, we talk about: Breaking the stigma around mental health. Why losing her brother at a young age was so crippling and how that ultimately affected our relationship, and even our parenting. Using tragedy as fuel to create impact and hope. How to support loved ones who may be struggling. Why prayer, fitness, journaling, and healthy habits matter more than ever. Her top emotion/lesson learned a week after leaving serving in prison with Bob Goff and the Love Does team. Her feelings about finding out about Charlie Kirk, just as we walked out of prison. What brings you the most joy & happiness these days? 25-years of marriage this coming February. What would you say is the key? Why are you excited to speak at our Montana Retreat this November? Our vision for the IMPACT Foundation and what's next in 2026. This is raw, real, and heartfelt. Whether you've battled mental health challenges yourself or walked alongside someone who has, my hope is that this conversation gives you strength, encouragement, and a reminder—you're not alone. If this conversation resonated, please share it. You can share the link to the podcast with a family member or friend. Or you can post it on your SM story and tag us. IG: @ToddDurkin @melanie.durkin #ToddDurkin #IMPACTShow #Ep445   P.S. #1. Are you ready to become a Todd Durkin IMPACT Life-Coach? We just released all the information to become a fully certified Todd Durkin IMPACT Life Coach. This is a 6-month program that prepares you to coach you in our system so that you can be part-time or full- time Life Coach. You can get all the information for the program here: www.ToddDurkin.com The program starts October 19th and we are currently taking applications and registrations. Check it out now.   P.S. #2 Become a Certified ‘GET YOUR MIND RIGHT' Mindset Coach TODAY If you're a coach, parent, or mentor who wants to raise confident, focused, resilient athletes — this is the course you've been waiting for. The “Get Your Mind Right Mindset Coaching Certification” is in full-effect and waiting for your participation. Built by myself and Andrew Simpson — and powered by TeamBuildr — this certification gives you elite tools to coach the mental game like never before. We cover topics such as: Mental toughness & reset frameworks Real scripts & strategies for confidence and composure Visualization, journaling & breathwork systems Tools you can use TODAY — on the field, in the gym, or in life Plus 2 months FREE in our private Mindset Coach Community This is how you build athletes for life. This is how you create lasting impact through sport. Get certified now at: www.gymrcoaching.com   P.S #3 Ready to join me in Montana in November for what will be an absolutely game-changing, epic experience at the Todd Durkin Annual Mountain Retreat? Want to go deeper on business, leadership and life and create even more success and significance? Ready to further IGNITE your passion, purpose, and IMPACT? If so, then join me for our 2025 Annual Mountain Retreat in Whitefish, Montana, November 13–16, 2025. This 2.5-day retreat is for ALL purpose-driven leaders, high-performers, fitness enthusiasts/professionals, and visionaries who are ready to dream big, expand their legacy, step into their next chapter with clarity and power…and be ready to be IGNITED with more passion, purpose, and IMPACT!! Save your spot NOW at: www.ToddDurkin.com/mountainretreat2025

I just got back from prison. Yep—you read that right. Melanie and I, alongside legendary author & philanthropist Bob Goff and the Love Does team, spent a full day inside San Quentin State Prison in northern CA. And let me tell you, it was one of the most powerful, life-changing experiences you could only imagine. Today's episode is raw, real, and fresh—we recorded it just days after getting back. You'll hear from both me and Melanie as we share what we saw, what we felt, and the incredible lessons we learned from the men inside those walls, many of them who have life-sentences. Before diving in, I've got three coaching questions for you that deal with the 7-lessons we will share today (Please keep them in mind WHILE you are listening to this episode): What are your greatest ambitions and dreams? What is your hope and where are you placing your hope these days? What are your fears…and what's your relationship with fear? Here are some of the lessons and take-aways we brought home from San Quentin and will discuss in Episode 444: The Power of a Greeting – One hug. One moment. One welcome can change everything. Wait until you hear this one! The Yard is Where It's At – Raw humanity on display: boxing, baseball, running, workouts, conversations, and even the “pigeon guy.” Reform & Rehabilitation Work – Hundreds of programs, degrees, certifications, and initiatives giving men hope and purpose inside the walls. Communication Matters – No phones. No distractions. Just presence, depth, and real conversation. The Power of a Small Group – Stories of Max, Jesse, and others reminded us that dreams of family, freedom, and redemption are universal. The Power of One Conversation – Sometimes a single word of encouragement, one moment of presence, can alter a life's trajectory. The Power of a Mission – What Bob Goff and “Love Does” is doing to build schools across the globe inspired Melanie and I to ask: “How can the Durkin IMPACT Foundation do even more? Listen in… At the heart of it all, this trip reminded me of something Pastor Miles McPherson told me years ago: “All people—prisoners, homeless, troubled, broken—they are ALL God's people, made in His image.” So true. Melanie and I left San Quentin in deep gratitude and with a burning question: How can we do more? How can we serve in ways that create even greater IMPACT? So, I'll leave you with one more question today: Where and how can YOU show up, serve, and give back to make the biggest impact also? Thanks for listening, my friends. Please share this one—it's a message we all need to hear. If this episode fires you up, here's how you can help spread the impact: SHARE it on IG and tag us at @ToddDurkin @melaniedurkin @bobgoff #LoveDoes #IMPACT Leave a rating & review wherever you listen. Send it to someone who needs a corner man right now. Now go get after it… Train hard. Eat right. Live inspired. Go create IMPACT.    P.S #1 Are you a trainer, a teacher, a parent, a leader… and you're ready to work deeper with people. Not just on tasks or reps, but on who they're BECOMING. If that's you, then I want to invite you to join my FREE LIVE WEBINAR:  Passion to Purpose to Profit! How to Turn Your Wisdom Into a Career You Love Thursday, September 18th ⏰ 12pm PT | 3pm ET Save your spot here → [SIGN UP LINK] In this LIVE training, I'm going to show you: The difference between life coaching and therapy The #1 skill every life coach MUST master How to define your niche & build your signature framework How to land your first clients from HOME The exact path to becoming certified & client-ready It's going to be HIGH-ENERGY. Real talk. Real stories. Real strategy. And a whole lot of inspiration to help you go from idea → income → IMPACT. You don't need to quit your job. You don't need a massive audience. You just need your HEART… and the right blueprint. Let's build it together. Sign up now and I'll see you LIVE on Thursday, Sept 18th → [SIGN UP HERE] P.S. #2 Become a Certified ‘GET YOUR MIND RIGHT' Mindset Coach TODAY! If you're a coach, parent, or mentor who wants to raise confident, focused, resilient athletes — this is the course you've been waiting for. The “Get Your Mind Right Mindset Coaching Certification” is LIVE. Built by myself and Andrew Simpson — and powered by TeamBuildr — this certification gives you elite tools to coach the mental game like never before. We cover topics such as: Mental toughness & reset frameworks Real scripts & strategies for confidence and composure Visualization, journaling & breathwork systems Tools you can use TODAY — on the field, in the gym, or in life Plus 2 months FREE in our private Mindset Coach Community This is how you build athletes for life. This is how you create lasting impact through sport. Get certified now at: www.gymrcoaching.com P.S #3 Ready to breathe in some Mountain Fresh Air? Want to go deeper on business, leadership and life and create even more success and significance? Ready to IGNITE your passion, purpose, and IMPACT? If so, then join me for our 2025 Annual Mountain Retreat in Whitefish, Montana November 13–16, 2025 This 2.5-day retreat is for ALL purpose-driven leaders, high-performers, fitness enthusiasts/professionals, and visionaries who are ready to dream big, expand their legacy, step into their next chapter with clarity and power…and be ready to be IGNITED with more passion, purpose, and IMPACT!! SIGN-UP NOW at: www.ToddDurkin.com/mountainretreat2025

In this episode, April sits down with Bob Goff — bestselling author, philanthropist, and founder of Love Does — an organization bringing education and human rights advocacy to some of the world's most challenging places. From Uganda to Mogadishu, Bob's work is rooted in love, boldness, and a refusal to play small. Bob shares how his signature “What if we…” mindset has transformed lives across the globe and why failing while trying beats standing on the sidelines. We explore his time working with diplomats, war criminals, and inmates in San Quentin — and the profound lesson he's learned: we're all insecure, we just cope differently. You'll hear stories of radical kindness, fearless leaps into the unknown, and why laughter has been Bob's go-to tool for navigating insecurity. This conversation will inspire you to take that first step toward your own bold adventure, no matter how imperfect or uncertain it feels. Key Takeaways: How to lead with audacity and compassion in any situation Why “What if we…” is the most powerful question you can ask The truth about insecurity and how to turn it into connection Why trying — and failing — is always better than watching from the sidelines How to start small and still change the world Resources & Links: Love Does & Everybody, Always by Bob Goff Connect with Bob on Instagram https://www.bobgoff.com/   --------- Want to be part of a transformative experience for entrepreneurs and leaders?

Luke, Andrew and Jon make another new friend in Friendship, Wisconsin! Local radio host (and Andrew's new favorite celebrity) Bob Goff of “Bob In The Morning” makes a surprise visit. They also finish the story they started yesterday about the friends who had a falling out over airport pickups.  Click here to donate and participate in this year's TBTL-a-Thon!  

This week on The Writing Room, Bob and Kim sit down with their friend Zach Windahl—he's the kind of guy who makes big ideas simple and beautiful. They talked about his latest book The Bible Simplified, and the winding path of writing, publishing, and figuring out why our words matter. Zach shares how identifying your “bummer” might just be the key to unlocking your best work yet. If you've got a story on your heart or a dream tucked in a drawer, this conversation might be the nudge you've been waiting for. Connect with Zach: instagram.com/zachwindahlCheck out The Bible Simplified: https://a.co/d/hGqCrWj Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff Connect with Kim: instagram.com/kimberly.stuart.writes---Come join Bob and Kim at the Oaks for a Writer's Workshop. Wherever you are in the writing process they are ready to help you figure out your next steps! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more. Learn more about Writing Coaching with Bob and Kim: bobgoff.com/writing-coaching

This week on The Writing Room, Bob and Kim sit down with their friend Zach Windahl—he's the kind of guy who makes big ideas simple and beautiful. They talked about his latest book The Bible Simplified, and the winding path of writing, publishing, and figuring out why our words matter. Zach shares how identifying your “bummer” might just be the key to unlocking your best work yet. If you've got a story on your heart or a dream tucked in a drawer, this conversation might be the nudge you've been waiting for. Connect with Zach: instagram.com/zachwindahlCheck out The Bible Simplified: https://a.co/d/hGqCrWj Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff Connect with Kim: instagram.com/kimberly.stuart.writes---Come join Bob and Kim at the Oaks for a Writer's Workshop. Wherever you are in the writing process they are ready to help you figure out your next steps! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more. Learn more about Writing Coaching with Bob and Kim: bobgoff.com/writing-coaching

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This week, I got to sit down with my friend Tauren Wells. Not only does he have a voice that can fill stadiums, but it's his heart that really moves people. We talked about calling, the cost of obedience, and what it looks like to trust God when the plan doesn't make sense. Tauren emphasized that joy and happiness are intertwined and that God desires for us to experience joy in our lives. He's living proof that you can chase your dreams and stay grounded in your purpose. Pull up a chair and join us, because you're going to enjoy this one. Connect with Tauren: instagram.com/taurenwells Order “Joy Bombs”: https://a.co/d/7QXxDXu Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff --- Come join Bob and some of his friends for a workshop at The Oaks! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

In this episode of the Writing Room, Bob and Kim welcome Jessica Robertson, who shares her journey as an author and a member of the Robertson family from Duck Dynasty. We talk about what it means to live a creative life, raise a family in the public eye, and keep your identity anchored when the world has a lot of opinions. Jess also gives us a behind-the-scenes look at Brave Books' brand-new streaming service, Brave Plus. If you've ever felt like your story isn't worth sharing or you're not sure where to start then this one's for you. Take the risk, make the leap, and show up. The world needs your voice. Connect with Jessica: instagram.com/jessicaduckwifeCheck out Dear Valor: https://a.co/d/9v1ppkP Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff Connect with Kim: instagram.com/kimberly.stuart.writes --- Come join Bob and Kim at the Oaks for a Writer's Workshop. Wherever you are in the writing process they are ready to help you figure out your next steps! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more. Learn more about Writing Coaching with Bob and Kim: bobgoff.com/writing-coaching

Writing doesn't need to be fancy, it just needs to be honest. In this episode, we talk about what happens when you pour out your story - not to impress, but to connect. Bob, Kim, and Lisa remind us that God isn't looking for polished voices, just willing ones. Whether you're in the middle of motherhood or the middle of a manuscript, there's something here for you. Connect with Lisa: instagram.com/lisadharper/A Jesus Shaped Life: https://www.lisaharper.org/a-jesus-shaped-life Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff Connect with Kim: instagram.com/kimberly.stuart.writes --- Learn more about Writing Coaching with Bob and Kim: bobgoff.com/writing-coaching Come join Bob and Kim at the Oaks for a Writer's Workshop. Wherever you are in the writing process they are ready to help you figure out your next steps! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

On this episode of the 4:13, we're diving into the joy-filled adventure of chasing whimsy—a path to discovering the uplifting, inspiring, and unexpected possibilities that await you every single day. With his signature storytelling and winsome take on life, bestselling author Bob Goff reveals how whimsy isn't just about enthusiasm—it's a deeply purposeful way of living. It's where intentionality meets curiosity, where interruptions become invitations, and where delight flips the script on your bad days. You'll learn how to embrace spontaneity with anticipation and wonder, use humor as a tool to broaden your perspective, and see life's mundane moments as onramps to meaningful experiences.  So, if you're ready to wake up to the marvelous adventure that is your life, hit play, and let's chase some whimsy together! SHOW NOTES: 413Podcast.com/345 Enter to win the GIVEAWAY and read the episode TRANSCRIPT in the show notes. Get my weekly email, Java with Jennifer, to be notified when a new podcast episode releases. Subscribe HERE.

Bob is delighted to introduce you to his friend, Rev. Liz Walker, an author, minister, and former reporter, to discuss her new book "No One Left Alone." They explore the importance of creating safe spaces for grief and emotional expression, the power of listening, and how community can foster healing. Liz shares the story behind her Can We Talk? initiative and how mutual compassion can change lives. Connect with Liz: instagram.com/pastorlizz/No One Left Alone: https://a.co/d/dPNHhfr Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff --- Come join Bob and some of his friends for a workshop at The Oaks! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

In this episode of the podcast, Bob Goff welcomes Elisabeth Hasselbeck, another dear friend, to discuss her new book, 'God's Masterpiece'. They explore themes of self-worth, the importance of childlike faith, and how art reflects life's journey. Elisabeth shares insights on encouraging children to recognize their value and the significance of welcoming failure as part of growth. We hope you listen in and realize the power of reminding others (and yourself) to embrace their uniqueness. Connect with Elisabeth: instagram.com/elisabethhasselbeckGod's Masterpiece Available Now: https://a.co/d/6BX6lCy Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff --- Come join Bob and some of his friends for a workshop at The Oaks! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

Jody Luke is the President of Love Does – a nonprofit founded by Bob Goff over 20 years ago that fights for human rights, cares for the vulnerable, and provides education in conflict zones around the world. Under Jody's leadership, the organization has expanded internationally to fourteen countries, while also broadening its reach domestically to further help refugees, teen moms and the incarcerated. From a major accounting firm to a variety of start-up businesses, Jody has a diverse financial background with companies of all sizes.   Jody may have a firm grasp on the numbers, but it's the life stories of people around her which fuel her desire to help friends and strangers alike. Jody strives to bring bundles of purpose and passion to everything she does, just ask her biggest fans: her family. She has been married for more than 20 years and has 3 kids who can all attest to her many world record setting attempts at multi-tasking You can connect with Jody via Instagram @jodylluke and you can learn more about Love Does at their website https://lovedoes.org/ and via Instagram @lovedoes. Related Episodes: Ep 267 - Always Positive Energy with Elijah Muhammad   Ep 297 - From Prison to Pastor: Andrew Carter   If you like this episode, please subscribe to Pursuing Health on iTunes and give it a rating or share your feedback on social media using the hashtag #PursuingHealth. I look forward to bringing you future episodes with inspiring individuals and ideas about health. Disclaimer: This podcast is for general information only, and does not provide medical advice.  I recommend that you seek assistance from your personal physician for any health conditions or concerns.

In this episode of The Writing Room, Bob and Kim sit down with writer and artist Liz Bell Young to talk about her book "Let There Be Havens" and the creative process behind it. Liz discusses how she blends memoir, photography, and practical wisdom in her work—despite being told her voice was “too quiet” for publishing. Listen in as they explore what it means to trust your creative instincts, push past industry expectations, and write the book that's truly on your heart. Connect with Liz: instagram.com/lizbellyoungLet There Be Havens: https://a.co/d/8rr6Eok Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff Connect with Kim: instagram.com/kimberly.stuart.writes --- Learn more about Writing Coaching with Bob and Kim: bobgoff.com/writing-coaching Come join Bob and Kim at the Oaks for a Writer's Workshop. Wherever you are in the writing process they are ready to help you figure out your next steps! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

Mike Nawrocki, known for his role as Larry the Cucumber in VeggieTales, joins Bob and Kim today to share his journey from aspiring pediatrician to a beloved children's storyteller. He discusses his new series, Dead Sea Squirrels, and the creative process behind writing for children across various mediums. Bob, Kim, and Mike explore the impact of storytelling, the importance of crafting themes, and the necessity of a supportive community. They also highlight the legacy that impactful storytelling can leave for future generations. Connect with Mike: instagram.com/mike.nawrockiCheck out the “Dead Sea Squirrels”: https://gominno.com/lp/deadseasquirrels/ Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff Connect with Kim: instagram.com/kimberly.stuart.writes --- Learn more about Writing Coaching with Bob and Kim: bobgoff.com/writing-coaching Come join Bob and Kim at the Oaks for a Writer's Workshop. Wherever you are in the writing process they are ready to help you figure out your next steps! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

What if faith looked more like an adventure than a checklist? Today Bob and his friend, John Eldredge, dig into what it means to live courageously, love deeply, and follow Jesus with joy. They chat about legacy, the power of connection, and why a playful faith just might be the most powerful kind. If you're ready to trade fear for freedom and step into a life of bold love, this episode is your invitation. Connect with John: instagram.com/wildatheartGrab your copy of “Experience Jesus. Really.”: https://wildatheart.org/books/experience-jesus-really Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff --- Come join Bob and some of his friends for a workshop this fall! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

In this episode of the podcast, Bob welcomes filmmaker, author, and friend Ryan Whitaker Smith. They discuss the importance of creativity, courage, and taking risks in pursuing one's passions. Ryan shares his journey in filmmaking and writing, emphasizing the need to discern the right timing for projects and the significance of finding unique stories to tell. The conversation also touches on the challenges of being misunderstood as a creative and the importance of capturing ideas. Ultimately, they encourage listeners to take courageous steps towards their ambitions and leave a lasting impact. Connect with Ryan: instagram.com/itsryanwhitaker/http://www.ryanwhitakerfilm.comhttp://www.angel.com/oxford Connect with Bob: instagram.com/bobgoff --- Come join Bob and some of his friends for a workshop at The Oaks! Visit bobgoff.com/events to learn more.

Today on the show, I get to talk with the king of whimsy himself, Bob Goff. This is his third time back to That Sounds Fun and he's always a good friend to us and a really wise voice we can learn from. His new book Catching Whimsy is a 365 day devotional challenging us to intentionally live a life full of kindness and wonder and, of course, some whimsy too. He shares stories of visiting prisons in a Santa Claus suit, building a giraffe habitat, and encourages us to get curious about other people. I think you'll really like this one.  . . . . . Want to watch this episode on YouTube? Head on over to our YouTube Channel and be sure to like and subscribe!  . . . . . Join our advent study at https://www.anniefdowns.com/advent Join our Patreon community Single Purpose League as we tackle the question: What is my single purpose and what is my purpose while single? . . . . . Sign up to receive the AFD Week In Review email and ask questions to future guests! #thatsoundsfunpodcast . . . . . Thank you to our sponsors!BetterHelp: Visit BetterHelp.com/THATSOUNDSFUN today to get 10% off your first month.  Aura Frames: Save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35-off Aura's best-selling Carver Mat frames by using promo code FUN at checkout. Hiya Health: Receive 50% off your first order at hiyahealth.com/thatsoundsfun. Our Place: Go to fromourplace.com and enter our code TSF at checkout to receive 10% off sitewide. Ritual: Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/THATSOUNDSFUN. . . . . . If you'd like to partner with Annie as a sponsor for the That Sounds Fun podcast, fill out our Advertise With Us form! . . . . . NYTimes bestselling Christian author, speaker, and host of popular Christian podcast, That Sounds Fun Podcast, Annie F. Downs shares with you some of her favorite things: new books, faith conversations, entertainers not to miss, and interviews with friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices