Podcast appearances and mentions of hugh ballou

In this special live-audience episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou welcomes longtime fundraising professional Bob Hopkins for a practical conversation about annual campaigns, donor relationships, and the art of asking for support. Drawing on more than four decades of experience in philanthropy, Bob explains why individual donors remain essential to nonprofit sustainability. His central principle is simple: people give to people. Successful fundraising begins long before the request is made, through genuine relationships, careful listening, consistent communication, and a clear understanding of what matters to each potential supporter. Bob defines an annual campaign as an organized, multi-month process rather than a single event or one-time appeal. He describes a typical fall sequence: introduce the campaign in September, make the formal request in October, follow up and collect gifts in November, and celebrate and thank supporters in December. The purpose is to build predictable support for the coming year and establish an annual rhythm that donors come to recognize. The conversation also addresses the importance of preparing a focused contact list, maintaining a clean and current database, involving board members and volunteers, and communicating the results donors can help achieve. Bob emphasizes that organizations do not need thousands of names to begin. A smaller list of people with authentic relationships can be more valuable than a large list of disconnected contacts. Throughout the episode, Bob encourages nonprofit leaders to listen more than they speak, learn about a donor's interests, and connect the mission to those interests before making an invitation. He also reminds leaders that fundraising should never be treated as the work of one person. Strong annual campaigns engage a team of people who can reach out through their own relationships. The episode offers an accessible starting point for nonprofit executives, board members, development professionals, and emerging leaders who want to replace reactive fundraising with a thoughtful, relational, and repeatable annual campaign. ·       People give to people, so trust and relationship come before the ask. ·       An annual campaign is a planned process, not a single event or email. ·       A smaller list of genuine relationships can be more effective than a large, impersonal database. ·       Listening helps leaders understand what potential donors care about and how the mission connects with their values. ·       Boards and volunteers should participate in fundraising through their own relationships. ·       Consistent communication, follow-up, gratitude, and celebration are essential parts of the campaign. ·       Annual campaigns help organizations build more predictable support for the year ahead. “People give to people.” Key TakeawaysClosing Principle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou speaks with Van Ton-Quinlivan about why workforce development must be understood as a collaborative community effort, not the responsibility of any single organization. Van explains that healthcare workforce development offers a powerful model for nonprofit leaders because the same principles apply across many fields: people need trusted guides, clear pathways, practical training, and community encouragement to move toward meaningful work. Van shares her own story of coming to the United States from Vietnam as a child and how access to education helped her family rebuild. That experience shaped her lifelong commitment to opening doors for others. Her work today focuses on helping people gain the credentials and confidence needed to enter healthcare careers, especially in allied health roles that are essential to community well-being. A central theme of the conversation is the “three-legged stool” of workforce development: employers, educators, and community organizations. Employers define the skills needed and offer the jobs. Educators help close the gap between current ability and workforce readiness. Nonprofits and community organizations serve as trusted connectors who invite people into new possibilities, help them understand available pathways, and support them as they take the next step. The conversation also highlights the dignity of opportunity. Nonprofits are not called simply to rescue people, but to help them recognize their gifts, build confidence, and see a future they may not yet imagine for themselves. Van notes that many people in every community have untapped potential but need encouragement, information, and access to the right pathway. Hugh and Van also explore inclusion, accessibility, and the importance of recognizing talent among people who are often overlooked, including individuals with disabilities, those with lived experience, adults returning to work, and young people seeking meaningful career exposure. Van points out that some career pathways, such as peer support roles, actually depend on lived experience as a qualification. The episode closes with a practical challenge for nonprofit leaders: identify one action this week that can help someone see a future in healthcare, in your organization, or in another meaningful career path. Workforce development is not only about filling jobs; it is about changing the trajectory of lives by building pathways of trust, dignity, opportunity, and collaboration. More information at https://futurohealth.org/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou talks with Ryan Dewey Smith, Founding Executive Chairman and CEO of Inperium, about how mission-driven organizations can scale without losing the mission, identity, culture, and local trust that made their work effective in the first place. Ryan reframes growth not as absorption or control, but as a disciplined affiliation model that allows nonprofit organizations to remain locally rooted while gaining the strength of shared infrastructure, operational systems, capital access, and leadership capacity. Ryan explains that the work happening around the mission--finance, accounting, legal, insurance, technology, cybersecurity, data, facilities, fleet, and workforce systems--often determines whether the mission can continue. His central message is clear: no money, no mission; no mission, no money. Nonprofit leaders must treat financial stewardship, operating discipline, and collaboration as essential expressions of mission rather than distractions from it. The conversation explores why partnerships can be stronger than standalone operations, how leaders can reduce administrative burden, why culture can improve through thoughtful change, and how organizations can build sustainable models that protect mission while expanding impact. Ryan also challenges leaders to embrace entrepreneurial thinking on the business side of service, not only in the programs they deliver. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou talks with Sally Mildren, CEO and Chief Strategist of CommonWell Marketing, about why even good missions often get ignored in a noisy, overloaded world. Sally explains that the problem is usually not the mission itself, but the lack of emotional connection, clarity, and recognition in the message. Drawing on brain science, marketing strategy, and practical nonprofit experience, Sally shows how people make quick subconscious decisions about whether a message is relevant, trustworthy, and meant for them. She challenges nonprofit leaders to stop overwhelming people with every program, campaign, and call to action, and instead communicate with one audience, one clear message, and one meaningful emotional connection at a time. The conversation explores the difference between representation and recognition, the importance of simplicity, and the “two-second test” every website, social post, email, appeal, and face-to-face message must pass. For nonprofit leaders, the message is clear: communication is not just information delivery; it is an act of leadership that builds trust, belonging, and action. Sally Mildren is the CEO and Chief Strategist of CommonWell Marketing, a strategy-driven marketing firm serving nonprofits, rural health organizations, and mission-driven brands. Her work helps leaders connect strategy, storytelling, brand clarity, customer experience, and sustainable growth so their organizations can communicate with greater relevance and impact. Sally is also the host of the Leadership Cafe podcast, where marketing leaders, nonprofit professionals, and small teams gather for practical insights and candid conversations about leading with confidence and creating real impact. Key Themes in This Episode Why good missions still get ignored when people do not feel personally connected to the message. How the brain filters information quickly and often subconsciously before people decide whether to pay attention. Why nonprofit messaging often becomes too organization-centered, focusing on programs, systems, awards, and wins instead of the audience's needs and identity. The difference between representation and recognition, and why people need to see themselves in the words, images, tone, and focus of the message. Why simplicity is one of the hardest and most important disciplines in nonprofit communication. How too many calls to action create confusion, fatigue, and inaction. Why emotion, surprise, and relevance are essential for earning attention and trust. Practical Takeaways for Nonprofit Leaders Start with the audience, not the organization. Ask, “Who is this for?” before creating any message. Speak to one person, one audience group, and one immediate need instead of trying to reach everyone at once. Reduce the number of words, images, and calls to action so the message can be processed quickly. Use images and stories that help the right person recognize themselves in the message. Watch engagement, traffic, bounce rates, conversions, and donation response as signals that your message is either connecting or missing the mark. Avoid panic messaging during financial uncertainty. Be intentional about what you need, who is most likely to engage, and what message will matter to them. Remember that a confused mind says no. Clarity builds trust and trust opens the door to action. Memorable Insights People often decide within seconds whether a message is for them or not. Recognition is more powerful than broad representation because it helps a specific person feel seen and understood. More content does not necessarily create more attention; it often creates more noise. The pathway to attention usually runs through emotion. Before pressing send, nonprofit leaders should ask: “Who is this for?” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this inspiring episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou welcomes Phil Cousineau, author of The Wisdom of the Odyssey: Twenty-Four Life Lessons from Homer's Epic, for a rich conversation about ancient wisdom and modern leadership. Phil explores why Homer's Odyssey still speaks powerfully to leaders today, especially those serving through nonprofit work. He describes myth not as an old story locked in the past, but as a sacred story that continues to reveal how we live, lead, suffer, heal, remember, and return home. Through the journey of Odysseus, the devotion of Penelope, the growth of Telemachus, and the wisdom of mentorship, Phil draws out lessons on endurance, responsibility, hospitality, trust, healing, and the deeper meaning of service. The conversation connects the themes of The Odyssey directly to nonprofit leadership: staying rooted in mission, remembering the original “why,” creating places of welcome for the wounded or forgotten, and leading with courage through uncertainty, scarcity, and conflict. Phil also highlights the Greek concept of xenia, or sacred hospitality, as a model for building trust, listening to people's stories, and creating communities where people feel seen and valued. At the heart of the episode is the question every leader eventually faces: How do we keep going when we feel far from home? Phil's answer is simple and profound: follow the love. Remember what called you into the work, what contribution you hoped to make, and what shared story can bring people together again. This episode invites nonprofit leaders to see their own work as an odyssey through storms, temptation, loss, discovery, responsibility, and renewal—and to recognize that wisdom is often formed along the journey itself. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou welcomes Molly Tschang, founder of Say It Skillfully, for a practical conversation on communication as one of the most essential leadership skills in nonprofit life. Molly emphasizes that communication is not simply about what leaders say, but about what people actually hear, understand, and are able to act on. Molly shares that many leadership challenges are communication issues in disguise. Drawing from her work with senior leaders, teams, and organizations navigating complex change, she explains that effective communication is a “team sport” because every person in an organization has a responsibility to speak up in service of the greater good. When people hold back out of fear of being wrong, offending others, or not fitting in, organizations lose access to the full wisdom and contribution of their teams. The conversation explores how nonprofit leaders can create environments where people feel valued, heard, and safe enough to contribute honestly. Molly offers practical guidance on building “accurate shared reality,” inviting different points of view, responding well to difficult feedback, and normalizing the truth that all of us are sometimes part of the communication problem. That awareness, she says, gives leaders and teams the opportunity to become part of the solution. Hugh and Molly also discuss the power of nonverbal communication, intentional listening, and the importance of showing up with the right energy before a single word is spoken. Molly introduces her simple Me, You, We framework as a tool for preparing conversations with clarity, empathy, and purpose. She encourages leaders to speak with compassion and confidence, not to prove themselves right, but to serve the mission, the team, and the greater good. This episode is especially valuable for nonprofit executives, board members, staff leaders, and volunteers who want to strengthen trust, improve collaboration, and help people bring their full gifts to the mission.  More at - https://www.sayitskillfully.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou interviews Matthew Paneitz, founder and executive director of Long Way Home, about how discarded materials can become the foundation for education, dignity, and community transformation. Matthew shares the story of founding Long Way Home in Guatemala after serving in the Peace Corps and seeing both the depth of community need and the abundance of overlooked local resources. What began with building a city park grew into a larger mission: transforming trash into useful infrastructure while helping communities solve real problems with the resources already around them. The conversation explores the development of Hero School, a project-based educational model where students learn by addressing practical community needs such as stoves, water tanks, compost latrines, retaining walls, and sustainable buildings. Matthew explains how education becomes more meaningful when students connect classroom learning with real-life problem solving. Hugh and Matthew also discuss community ownership, local leadership, green building, resilience, and the challenge of scaling impact without losing the soul of the work. Matthew emphasizes that lasting transformation comes through listening, patience, cultural understanding, and building with the community rather than simply helping from the outside. The episode invites nonprofit leaders to rethink waste, poverty, education, and leadership—and to see possibility where others see only what has been discarded. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Ron Stotts—executive coach, leadership mentor, and transformational guide—to explore the often‑ignored internal dynamics that shape how leaders think, decide, and act. While most leadership development focuses on strategy, skills, and systems, Dr. Stotts argues that the real driver of performance is the leader's internal operating system: their awareness, beliefs, patterns, and emotional regulation. Drawing from decades of work in neuroscience, mindfulness, and leadership psychology, Dr. Stotts explains how subconscious childhood strategies become adult leadership saboteurs—fueling perfectionism, over‑control, burnout, and fear‑based decision‑making. He introduces the concept of Big Mind, a state of integrated whole‑brain thinking that expands clarity, creativity, and presence. Listeners will learn why breath is the earliest indicator of internal alignment, how awareness becomes the ceiling of leadership impact, and why nonprofit leaders—who carry emotional weight and mission pressure—must cultivate inner resilience to lead effectively. Dr. Stotts also shares his STOP Process, a simple but powerful tool for staying grounded in high‑stakes moments like board meetings. This conversation reframes leadership from the inside out, offering practical insights for anyone seeking to lead with more clarity, confidence, and conscious presence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou interviews leadership coach and author Greg Guliano about the principles of service-based leadership and enabling positive transformation in organizations. Greg explains that leadership is not about authority or control but about creating the conditions for people to succeed. He emphasizes that teams do not work for leaders—they work with them. The leader's responsibility is to care for people, unlock their talent, and help them grow from good to better over time. The conversation highlights the idea that organizations are transformed when teams are transformed, and teams are transformed when individuals grow in confidence, competence, and self-awareness. Greg stresses that leaders must shift from directing people to coaching them, helping individuals reach their potential rather than simply telling them what to do. Hugh and Greg also discuss the difference between being authoritative and authoritarian. Effective leaders provide clarity, direction, and standards while still empowering people to contribute their insights, creativity, and initiative. A key theme of the episode is that leadership is ultimately about service. By focusing on the growth, engagement, and success of others, leaders create cultures where people willingly and repeatedly contribute at a high level. This approach leads to stronger teams, healthier organizations, and more sustainable results. This episode offers practical insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and mission-driven professionals who want to build stronger teams, increase engagement, and lead with clarity, purpose, and service. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, author Hugh Ballou argues that most organizational frictionis avoidable because it typically stems from ambiguous expectations rather than personal animosity. He suggests that leaders should prioritize consensus-building to establish a unified framework of values and goals before problems arise. By utilizing the metaphor of an orchestra, Ballou illustrates how thorough preparation and disciplined listening ensure that team members remain synchronized during high-pressure situations. This proactive approach fosters mutual trust and accountability, which ultimately strengthens long-term performance and efficiency. Ultimately, the text highlights that investing time in defining guiding principles is far more effective than reacting to preventable crises. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, host Hugh Ballou sits down with Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller, founder of EQ via Empathy, to explore why empathy is not a soft leadership trait—but a strategic necessity for effective, sustainable leadership. Melissa shares her journey from musician and educator to leadership coach, explaining how her background shaped her understanding of emotional intelligence and human connection. Together, Hugh and Melissa unpack the critical role empathy plays in nonprofit leadership, especially in mission-driven organizations where people, purpose, and performance must align. The conversation challenges common misconceptions about empathy, reframing it as a practical leadership skill that strengthens trust, accountability, and organizational culture. Melissa explains how leaders can balance empathy with high expectations, make difficult decisions without losing humanity, and foster environments where people feel seen, valued, and motivated to contribute their best work. Listeners will gain insights into: How empathy directly impacts engagement, innovation, and results Why self-empathy is foundational for healthy leadership Practical ways nonprofit leaders can embed empathy into daily operations How empathy supports sustainability in resource-constrained organizations This episode offers thoughtful, actionable wisdom for nonprofit leaders, board members, and executives who want to lead with clarity, compassion, and effectiveness—without sacrificing results. Learn more about Melissa Robinson-Winemiller and her work at https://eqviaempathy.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Inspiring Leadership Voices from The Nonprofit Exchange from 2025 Each episode of The Nonprofit Exchange highlights ideas that move leaders beyond management and into meaningful influence. The following curated insights are drawn from recent episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange, hosted by Hugh Ballou. These voices reflect diverse leadership contexts—nonprofit, entrepreneurial, servant, and transformational—yet each offers a timely reminder of what effective leadership requires today. “Servant leadership is about aligning the heart and mind – true leadership comes from influence, not authority.” — Kevin Wayne Johnson, “Leadership with a Servant's Heart” “Whether you're making music or running a nonprofit, planning is the key to success.” — Carter Fox, “The Sound of Strategy: Music Business Lessons” “Culture is essentially the beliefs that govern how people behave.” — Steve Gandara, “Unlocking Excellence: How Culture Drives Success” “Achieving a seat on a corporate board requires intentional preparation and a clear plan.” — Dr. Keith Dorsey, “Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service”. “While our message remains timeless, our methods must change with the times.” — Terry Modica, “Reaching Hearts in a Changing World” “Leadership is an inside-out journey – if you don't lead yourself, you can't lead others.” — Dr. Wayne ‘Lyte' Brown, “Leadership from the Inside Out” — Jeff Schreifels, “Building a Culture of Generosity”. “Effective leadership comes down to character, competence, caring, and communication.” — Tom Collins, “Leadership Mastery” “Every computer we refurbish is a bridge across the digital divide.” — Dylan Zajac, “Sustainable Solutions: Bridging the Digital Divide” “Real change comes from lasting partnerships, not short-term fixes.” — Nathan Walters, “Transformational Mission” “Authentic leadership starts with knowing who you are.” — Dr. Rick Rodriguez, “Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation” “Effective communication requires active listening.” — Michael Reddington, “Everyday Confessions: Disciplined Listening” “When you heal and empower yourself, you can lead others from wholeness.” — Dr. Lisa Cooney, “The Body of Change” “You can't pour from an empty cup.” — Pankaj Singh, “Preventing Burnout Through Mindful Leadership”. “We have to stop begging for donations and start building relationships.” — James Meisner, “Transforming Fundraising." “A joy-filled culture inspires engagement and creativity.” — Heather M. Day, “Creating a Joy-Filled Culture” “Real change means listening to the stories of those we serve.” — Dr. Pierre Berastaín, “Leading Beyond the Buzzwords” “Engage your board and they become your greatest allies.” — Dr. A. Giselle Jones, “Engaging Your Board in Funds Sourcing” “Life is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Keep running!” — John David Graham, “Life is a Marathon. Keep on running!”” These insights remind us that leadership is not about control or charisma, but about clarity, character, and conscious influence. As the audience for this show, may these voices encourage you to lead with intention, humility, and courage. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nathan Walters is the President of Mission Discovery, an organization that has mobilized thousands of volunteers on short-term mission trips for over 30 years. With 15 years of experience leading teams around the world, Nathan has seen firsthand the transformative impact of missions when done with humility, sustainability, and Gospel-centered partnerships. His passion is equipping volunteers to serve well, empowering local communities, and sharing stories of lasting impact—like Valerie, who went from receiving a home as a child to building one for another family years later. Nathan's journey from personal loss to leading in missions is a testimony to God's redemptive work in brokenness, and he's passionate about helping others step into their own calling to serve.Website - https://www.missiondiscovery.org In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou interviews Nathan Walters, President of Mission Discovery, about the heart and vision behind global mission work. Walters shares how his personal journey from overcoming childhood hardship to leading a faith-based nonprofit has shaped his passion for transformational service. He emphasizes that mission trips are not just about what participants give, but how they themselves are changed through service. According to Walters, openness to transformation is the key to making mission experiences impactful.The conversation explores how Mission Discovery ensures sustainability by focusing on long-term community partnerships rather than one-off projects. Walters highlights success stories where clean water, education, and housing initiatives have produced lasting impact. Collaboration, he notes, is central to Mission Discovery's growth, with the motto “together is better” guiding its expansion into new regions and programs.Faith is also at the core of Mission Discovery's mission. Walters explains how their evangelical commitments shape team preparation and outreach, balancing tangible acts of service with sharing the gospel. Looking ahead, he outlines new opportunities for churches, schools, and individuals to engage in mission trips. Ultimately, the interview underscores the dual transformation of both communities and volunteers, rooted in faith and sustainable action. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, along with my colleague David Dunworth, delve into the exciting offerings of our publication, Lead Forward magazine. As the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, I emphasize the importance of creating synergy around our organizational vision, and David plays a crucial role as the co-publisher of the magazine. We discuss the evolution of our publication from a simple newsletter to a substantial quarterly magazine filled with valuable resources for nonprofit leaders. Unlike typical magazines filled with ads, Lead Forward is packed with insightful articles covering various categories such as transformational leadership, grant funding, compliance, board relations, and more. Each issue is designed to provide actionable strategies and tools that can help leaders navigate the complexities of running a nonprofit. David highlights the unique features of the magazine, including free downloads and QR codes that connect readers to additional resources. We also touch on the importance of community within the SynerVision network and the Nonprofit Prosperity Council, where leaders can share knowledge and support one another. As we wrap up, I encourage listeners to subscribe to Lead Forward magazine, which is available for free in digital format, and to explore the wealth of resources we offer through our community. We believe that reading and continuous learning are essential for effective leadership, and our magazine aims to be a valuable tool in that journey. For more information, listeners can visit leadforwardmagazine.org and the nonprofitexchange.org for past episodes and additional resources. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing new subscribers to our magazine! Subscribe at https://synervisionleadership.org/leadforward-magazine/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, had the pleasure of reconnecting with an old friend and seasoned entrepreneur, Clay Hicks. Clay is the founder of H7, a network dedicated to fostering meaningful connections among professionals. Our discussion centered around his trademarked methodology: "Connect, Serve, and Ask," which has been a guiding principle in his work since its inception in 2018. Clay shared his journey as an entrepreneur over the past 23 years, emphasizing his passion for leadership and the importance of building relationships. He recounted how the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" methodology evolved from his experiences of meeting with individuals one-on-one, initially starting in 2014. Through his reflections, he realized the significance of connecting with others, serving them genuinely, and ultimately asking for help when needed. This approach has proven to be a powerful way to earn trust and build mutually beneficial relationships. We delved into the importance of focusing on relationships rather than outcomes, a concept that resonated deeply with both of us. Clay articulated that when we prioritize building solid relationships, the desired outcomes—whether in fundraising, networking, or team dynamics—become more predictable and achievable. He highlighted that this principle is crucial for nonprofit leaders who aim to make a meaningful impact in their communities. As we explored the role of social media, particularly LinkedIn, in building connections, Clay pointed out common mistakes that many make, such as relying on automated messages and failing to provide value in their posts. He stressed the importance of authentic engagement and the need to treat social media as a platform for relationship-building rather than mere self-promotion. Clay also introduced practical strategies for initiating conversations with potential volunteers, board members, and donors. He provided insightful questions to help listeners connect with others on a deeper level, emphasizing the value of understanding their stories and needs. Throughout the episode, Clay's enthusiasm for helping others and his commitment to fostering a culture of trust and collaboration shone through. He invited listeners to explore H7 and participate in their meetings to experience firsthand the power of networking grounded in the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" philosophy. In closing, Clay left us with a powerful reminder: when we focus on relationships, the outcomes we seek will naturally follow. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their networking skills and build impactful relationships in their work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Nonprofit Lowdown listeners! Rhea here, bringing you the final episode of 2024. It's been a year full of incredible insights, heartwarming stories, and actionable tips for nonprofit leaders like you. I want to take a moment to thank you for being part of this journey — we're officially in our 6th year of the podcast! Can you believe it?!

In this special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, have the pleasure of welcoming my dear friend Amit Banerjee, the CEO and president of Philanthropy Kids, a Dallas-based organization dedicated to inspiring and educating young people about philanthropy, volunteerism, and social entrepreneurship. Amit shares his journey and the importance of instilling philanthropic values in today's youth, emphasizing that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of age or wealth. Amit begins by outlining his background, which includes a diverse range of experiences from electrical engineering to working with various nonprofit organizations. He highlights how these experiences have shaped his commitment to community engagement and charitable activities. A pivotal moment in his life was participating in a program called PAVE (Philanthropy and Volunteerism in Education) during elementary school, which sparked his passion for philanthropy. We delve into the PAVE program, which operates under the umbrella of Philanthropy Kids. Amit explains that PAVE partners with schools to transform traditional classrooms into environments where students learn about philanthropy, leadership, and social entrepreneurship instead of standard subjects like math or science. This innovative approach engages students in understanding their community's needs and how they can contribute to solving them. Amit discusses the impact of the PAVE program, noting significant improvements in students' demonstrated philanthropic behavior, academic performance, and school attendance. He shares compelling statistics, such as an 8-12% increase in standardized test scores for students who are already passing and a staggering 30-50% increase for those who are failing. These results illustrate that learning about philanthropy not only makes students better individuals but also enhances their academic success. Throughout our conversation, Amit emphasizes the importance of mentorship for young people, encouraging adults to support and guide the next generation. He believes that the innovative ideas and perspectives of youth can lead to meaningful solutions for societal challenges. As we wrap up the episode, I encourage listeners to visit the Philanthropy Kids website at philanthropykids.org to learn more about their programs, get involved, and support their mission. Amit leaves us with a powerful message: "You don't have to be rich or old to be a philanthropist. You just have to care." This episode serves as a reminder of the vital role we all play in nurturing the philanthropic spirit in our youth and the positive impact it can have on our communities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou, leadership expert and former musical conductor, delves into how influencers, much like conductors, shape teams through value, relationships, and synergy. Unpacking his four leadership principles—foundations, relationships, systems, and balance—Hugh reveals how these tenets foster high performance and accountability. Host Brynne Tillman discusses with Hugh the parallels between leading an orchestra and steering a business to success, emphasizing the importance of listening, collaboration, and personal growth. Tune in to understand how to turn individual brilliance into a cohesive, high-performing ensemble.

What does a musician and conductor know about leadership? My guest, Hugh Ballou, sees his work at conducting transformations. He defines what leadership is and isn't and what components go into great leadership. His company, SynerVision is a crossover between synergy and vision. Here are some key points. Listen in for more! Leadership isn't dictatorship - the leader is an influencer! In an orchestra, the leader knows the score and everyone playing knows their part Infrastructure is everything, what you're playing is almost secondary It all comes together - through practice, performance, clarity, and community BIG LEADERSHIP LESSON: Rather than tell people what to do, state your expectation and your availability to mentor. THIS IS A PARENTING TIP, TOO. (Just be sure you're walking the talk and not asking others to do as you say, not as you do.) THE CULTURE IS A REFLECTION of the leader! Rehearse Excellence Four foundational leadership principles: Vision = The Score Be ready to articulate the vision Relationships and Building a Team Hire The Best Systems - create systems that help your team do their jobs That includes the way you run meetings (bad meetings kill productivity) Value the Rests You can't drive and push all the time. You've got to create emphatic balance through clarifying punctuation. Find more about Hugh at: www.AboutHugh.com www.HughBallou.com And for a free, 31-day leadership program, 5 minutes/day, go to www.BetterLeader.me

Fundraising leaving you frazzled?

Here we will get to hear from Hugh Ballou conductor and founder. Hugh Ballou is a Transformational Leadership StrategistTM and Corporate Culture ArchitectTM, leveraging 40 years of experience as a musical conductor to teach leaders in various fields how to cultivate purpose-driven, high-performance cultures. He focuses on enhancing productivity, profits, and job satisfaction while reducing confusion, conflicts, and under-performance. Ballou demonstrates how leadership skills akin to those of a conductor can shape dynamic organizational cultures in business or nonprofit settings.

Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Hugh uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture. In his work with nonprofit leaders and corporate executives for 34+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, Hugh has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change. His books, e-Books, online programs, and live presentations have impacted leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Jen and guest Hugh Ballou as he discusses how his 40+ years as a music conductor helped equipped him to understand communication and build relationships with his team. Stay tuned to learn more.   _________________________ Hey everyone. Welcome back to this episode, my guest today. I've had so much fun getting to know him. Uh, you know, we're also in some other networking together and I've had so much fun getting to know him because what he's gonna be talking about today, I. It's pretty cool. It's just the, it's the angle that he has that makes this so interesting, um, in helping and building high performance leaders and teams. Um, right up. You know, one of the things I really love about this is that we do something very, very similar. It's just the mechanism in how we do it, and that's what differentiates us. And that's something that our, um, listeners hear. So if you're listening to this, you, you wanna hear this is, So a lot of times we feel like we're a commodity in what we do, but it's how you do it that differentiates you. And so you're gonna hear that from my guest today, Hugh Ballou. So welcome to the show, Hugh. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.  ... _________________________ Join the Success to Significance Community Today: YouTube Facebook Instagram Jenduplessis.com Linkedin Book a Strategy Call with Jen TODAY! ____________________

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In this episode, Jen is joined by guest Hugh Ballou. Listen along as Jen and Hugh discuss the importance of leadership and building high performing leaders within teams. Get to know Hugh Ballou: How does a conductor of orchestra and choirs teach leadership - very enthusiastically! Hugh Ballou teaches leaders around the globe how to build synergy with teams and how to build effective processes that bring success to any organization - no matter how small or how big. "I travel around the country and around the world and find that you can change the name of the organization, the location and the type of structure and you will still have the same issues - leaders not leading effectively!" Ballou brings 40 years of experience as a conductor to his leadership training. " I call the training Building High Performance Teams, but no one can produce effective teams without fine-tuned leadership skills. I teach business executives how an orchestra is a dictator, however, if the conductor hires a good oboe player, then it's best to let that oboe player use his or her skill rather than tell them how to play the oboe!" It sounds silly, however, leaders who micromanage those whom they lead only receive a fraction of the performance that is ultimately possible. Let the team perform! The skill set of planning for success, constructing powerful goals, and delegating with authority are consistent themes where many leaders underperform. Ballou's unique ability to inspire and motivate even the most difficult of audiences has made him the expert in the field of Transformational Leadership. Transformational Leaders build strong leaders on teams that are motivated, focused and highly effective in setting and implementing powerful goals. As author of 8 books on Transformational Leadership, Ballou works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields the fine-tune skills employed every day by orchestral conductors. Get In Touch with Hugh WEBSITE: https://hughballou.com/ FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/synervisionleadership/ LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/synervision-leadership-foundation TWITTER: https://twitter.com/SVNPOFoundation YOUTUBE: https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCvhvFUwqt_bRPq7b-0_g4aw/videos INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/synervisionleadership/ ____________________ TELL ME I CAN'T! Jen Du Plessis sits down with entrepreneurs who have overcome major obstacles and in some cases, people, in their lives, to launch incredibly successful businesses and grow beyond anything they could have imagined. Watch NOW! ____________________ Join the Success to Significance Community Today: YouTube Facebook Instagram Jenduplessis.com Linkedin Book a Strategy Call with Jen TODAY! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career Hugh Ballou spent 40+ years as a musical conductor and here are some of his recordings from that career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In episode 59 of Mission: Impact, Carol and her guest, Hugh Ballou discuss: How to improve the efficiency of your organization's meetings Why influence is more important than direction when leading The importance of clarity in your communications Guest Bio:Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture. Important Links and Resources: https://hughballou.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/hballou/  https://twitter.com/hughballou?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://www.instagram.com/hughballou/?hl=en

Norah Jones taps SynerVision's Hugh Ballou for his insights into and pathways to transformational leadership in business, organizations, and society.

Connect with Hugh Ballou:Website: https://hughballou.com/Email: hugh@hughballou.com  You can purchase Lauren's book “Finding Your Silver Lining in the Business Immigration Process: An Insightful Guide to Immigrant & Non-Immigrant Business Visas” here- http://bit.ly/silverliningimm Connect with Lauren Cohen:Website: https://ecouncilinc.com/goglobal/Facebook: www.facebook.com/ecouncilincYouTube: http://bit.ly/YT-LaurenesqLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ecouncilincInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/lauren_cohen_esq/Email: founder@ecouncilglobal.com

Hugh Ballou describes how he was able to transfer skills from conducting at megachurches to the executive boardroom. We also discuss delivering effective presentations, applying a results based approach to meetings and thinking outside the box. Learn more about Hugh Ballou through his website: https://hughballou.com And his initiative for non-profit leaders looking to develop business skills at: https://nonprofitcommunity.org

Hugh Ballou is the President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, guiding the life-changing, life-saving global impact of churches and nonprofit organizations. He has 30 plus years of a successful career in orchestrating success: working with visionary leaders integrating strategy into performance.  Key insights from the show include how Hugh brings synergies of orchestrating music at the highest level: How, as leaders, you can invite your team to use their expertise for a shared vision. How to not over function and micromanage. How to have successful meetings by not having agendas but deliverables and clear objectives. Prefer to watch the video version? Watch it here: https://youtu.be/MxrkF8GnhJQ

Clergy Leadership Challenges with Hugh Ballou In this short "T-Talk" (Transformation Talk) in the faith leader empowerment series, Hugh Ballou addresses the 5 top leadership challenges for clergy and all faith leaders: Self-Management Conflict Management Clarity of Vision Over Functioning Emotional Control Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture as a whole. In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model. Register for the Faith Leader Empowerment Series at http://iRecharge.live Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The idea of “leadership” is the same across the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. Good leadership is rooted in the ability to achieve growing and sustaining the engagement of people to accomplish something extraordinary together. Leadership can make or break an organization. Leadership in nonprofit organizations presents a specific set of challenges and therefore requires a unique set of skills. Executive mentoring and leadership development training can be key to growing nonprofit core competencies among board members and volunteers alike. Our guest for Episode #54 of Charged Up Studio is Hugh Ballou, one of the nation's leading NonProfit strategists. He brings a unique form of leadership training designed to create a team that will better serve an organization and helps them meet their goals. Hugh Ballou is The Transformational Leadership StrategistTM and Corporate Culture ArchitectTM working with visionary CEOs, entrepreneurs, pastors, and nonprofit leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance collaboration culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction, through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as a musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills and showing leaders in business, church, or nonprofit organizations the power of creating a high-performance culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director. In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 30+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs, and live presentations have an impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance, unlike the traditional consultant model. Website: https://hughballou.com Community Website: https://nonprofitcommunity.org Podcast: https://synervisionleadership.org/the-nonprofit-exchange/ Email: hugh@synervisionleadership.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou is well-known as The Transformational Leadership Strategist™ and Corporate Culture Architect™ who works with visionary CEOs, entrepreneurs, pastors, and nonprofit leaders and their teams. By minimizing confusion, conflict, and under-functioning, he is able to help leaders in businesses develop a purpose-driven high-performance collaboration culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction.Having experienced 40 years handling musical orchestras as the conductor, Hugh utilizes and hones leadership skills that respond to the nuances of the leader in the same way that a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director. This has allowed him to work with Social Entrepreneurs for more than 31 years as he empowers transformation and engagement that ultimately leads to accelerated income. And as part of his practice, he only takes on a few clients at a time to make sure he's able to provide the best support and give attention to every detail for success.With the way that his books, online programs, and live presentations have impacted leaders on a global level, his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance is definitely not like the traditional consultant model.You can learn more, connect, and follow Hugh Ballou on the following links:Website: https://hughballou.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hballou/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HughBallouLeadership/Twitter: https://twitter.com/hughballou?lang=enIf you know anyone that needs to hear what we talked about today, please subscribe and leave us a review or go to https://heart-hustle-and-humor.simplecast.com/.

With just a turn of a wand in one hand, an orchestra conductor has the ability to harmonize a vast array of instruments into a beautiful ballad. To ensure a successful performance, the conductor orchestrates many hours behind the scenes bringing this array of individuals together before ever stepping out on stage. In the like, an entrepreneur will spend many hours behind the scenes practicing, playing, and when ready, picking up your own wand to wave and stepping out onto the business stage for the performance of your life. For Hugh Ballou, orchestra conductor shifted to transformational leadership strategist, he teaches nonprofits and clergy about all the important behind-the-scenes secrets that result in a fine-tuned leadership with an even more harmonious operation. Listen in for a quick fine-tune. Shifter Wisdom: “We really need to equip ourselves for success. Never stop working on yourself and never limit the potential you have. There is potential we all have we can unlock.” (www.bookme.name/hughballou | www.hughballou.com | www.synervisionleadership.org | www.synervisionleadership.org/synervision-magazine | www.hughballou.com/podcast)

With just a turn of a wand in one hand, an orchestra conductor has the ability to harmonize a vast array of instruments into a beautiful ballad. To ensure a successful performance, the conductor orchestrates many hours behind the scenes bringing this array of individuals together before ever stepping out on stage. In the like, an entrepreneur will spend many hours behind the scenes practicing, playing, and when ready, picking up your own wand to wave and stepping out onto the business stage for the performance of your life. For Hugh Ballou, orchestra conductor shifted to transformational leadership strategist, he teaches nonprofits and clergy about all the important behind-the-scenes secrets that result in a fine-tuned leadership with an even more harmonious operation. Listen in for a quick fine-tune. Shifter Wisdom: “We really need to equip ourselves for success. Never stop working on yourself and never limit the potential you have. There is potential we all have we can unlock.” (www.bookme.name/hughballou | www.hughballou.com | www.synervisionleadership.org | www.synervisionleadership.org/synervision-magazine | www.hughballou.com/podcast)

My guest today is Hugh Ballou. Hugh is a Transformational Leadership Strategist and Corporate Culture Architect working with visionary CEOs, entrepreneurs, clergy, and nonprofit leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance collaboration culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction, through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning.  With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills and showing leaders in business, religious institutions, or nonprofit organizations the power of creating a high-performance culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director.  In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model. Here’s what to expect during the episode: The similarities between music directors, programmers, and leadership consultants: being creative without breaking the rules.  What are the elements that hold back nonprofit leaders from success? The importance of defining your goals as a leader to build the roads that lead to them. How can you avoid falling into the pitfall of micromanaging? Giving the opportunity for the board to add their expertise and be involved in the work.  You can listen to Hugh’s podcasts on http://thenonprofitexchange.org and http://BetterLeader.me His website is https://synervisionleadership.org and the community is at https://synervisionleadership.org/community-overview Get Mary’s free training, 3 Mistakes Nonprofit Leaders Make Orienting Board Members by going to http://nonprofitboardorientation.com   Be sure to subscribe to Inspired Nonprofit Leadership so that you don’t miss a single episode, and while you’re at it, won’t you take a moment to write a short review and rate our show? It would be greatly appreciated!   Let us know the topics or questions you would like to hear about in a future episode. You can do that, and follow us, on Facebook. To learn more about our previous guests, listen to past episodes, and get to know your host, go to: Hiland Consulting Connect with Mary! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryhiland Inspired Nonprofit Leadership Facebook Group: https://tinyurl.com/inspirednonprofitleadership Website: https://www.hilandconsulting.org/ Company Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hilandconsulting

Leadership is a skill that we need in many aspects of our lives and in many of our relationships. This is an interview that I did in 2008. The information is good for anyone who wants and needs to show leadership in any situation. Hugh Ballou came to the project with over 40 years experience as a music conductor and he had worked with groups and organizations in many exciting and diverse locations. We talk about his experience, his book, the contributors who share their stories in the book and much more. Many of their experienced are focused around church organizations, but the principles are applicable in organizations, churches, businesses, communities, non-profits and many other situations.

Hugh the Founder and President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation tells you how to establiish the leader's position of influence. You can check him out at https://HughBallou.com/

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don't have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality. Don't we all want to know we've made a difference, and when Hugh hears this from his clients, it melts his heart.

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don't have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality. Don't we all want to know we've made a difference, and when Hugh hears this from his clients, it melts his heart.

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don't have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality. Don't we all want to know we've made a difference, and when Hugh hears this from his clients, it melts his heart.

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don’t have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality.Working on Purpose Radio Show is broadcast live at 6pm ET Tuesdays on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). This podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com).

3 big ideas discussed in this episode: Leaders lead from a position of influence, and not power to be more effective. Leaders model what they want to see in the culture. Leaders must be clear in defining vision and expectations. Get the show notes and more resources related to this episode here: https://AskJeremyJones.com/200

Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld Martin Leifeld, author, coach, consultant, and public speaker directed the raising of over $500 million dollars during his 24 years of fundraising leadership in the St. Louis region. Martin authored the book, FIVE MINUTES FOR FUNDRAISING - A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. MartinLeifeld.com provides nearly 125 video presentations about leadership and fundraising matters. Martin served as vice chancellor for university advancement at UMSL for 10 years. He led a dramatic increase in fundraising, averaging $26.4 million per year. University Advancement had 140 employees and a $16 million budget focusing upon alumni engagement, community relations, fundraising, marketing and communication, university events, and St. Louis Public Radio. Previously, Martin was associate vice president for university development at Saint Louis University and director of development for the Diocese of Belleville, Ill. Martin was named the 2018 Outstanding Fundraising Executive by the AFP St. Louis Regional Chapter. Martin was selected as the 2020 Millard S. Cohen Lifetime Achievement Award from St. Louis Public Radio (KWMU).   Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Every week, we have a guest who has knowledge and wisdom, and experience in a topic. They have been there and done it, and they have some things to share with you. You're sitting in the seat as clergy, nonprofit leader, or board chair. Maybe you're a business person thinking about launching a nonprofit. This series is here to help you think out of the box, think of some new paradigms, and learn from some people who are experienced. Today, my guest is from St. Louis, Missouri. He is the author of this book, Five Minutes for Fundraising: A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. Martin Leifeld, welcome. Would you tell people a little bit about yourself, and why is it that you do what you do? Martin Leifeld: First of all, it's an honor to be on your program today, and I appreciate your audience. I hope I can be helpful. I've been in various leadership roles for around 45 years. 25 years of those were in small and larger universities. 25 years, although they didn't overlap exactly with the universities, I have been involved in fundraising. About two years ago, I retired after 10 years as vice chancellor for advancement at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, which is our local urban land grant university here in St. Louis. I had a wonderful run there. Long story short, here in the St. Louis region, which is where I spent my 25 years of fundraising, over $500 million raised, that's a lot of money for St. Louis. It's not about the dollars raised; it's about the involvement, the lives changed, and the impact because of the dollars raised. Two years ago, I retired. It wasn't my timing, to be honest with you. I had health issues. My handle in the last couple of years has been author, coach, consultant, and speaker. A little bit of everything. I think you know what I mean. I have a website, MartinLeifeld.com. There are over 120 videos there on fundraising and leadership. You were kind enough to point out the book. I have been doing podcasts, a couple dozen of them, and regular postings, particularly on LinkedIn. I am trying to give back. This is all about trying to give back to a profession that has been such a blessing for me, so good for me in so many respects. Certainly developed professional skills. I have grown as a person by doing this extraordinary work of fundraising. Hugh: We have in the audience two fundraisers who are CFRE. They're here because they heard about you. We'll let them ask questions later. Martin: I'm beginning to sweat, Hugh. Hugh: They're very nice people. Martin: I hope so. Hugh: I had a funding professional last month. He said he reads a fundraising book a week. My area is transformational leadership and the conductor. The best leaders I worked with in corporate or nonprofits are the people who are always working on themselves. The famous speaker Jim Rohn always said, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” I wrote that down and have been working on it ever since. 73, and still working. Martin: I'm impressed by somebody who would read a book weekly. There is a chapter in the book called, “The Three C's of Fundraising.” The first is competence. If you want to be involved in fundraising, being somebody of impact who makes a difference, you have to develop competency. There are two ways to do that. One is lifelong learning. You are a student of the game, of the practice. That can include certifications and the like. You mentioned CFRE, which makes me nervous. You go to webinars like this, podcasts, so on and so forth, to remain educated and current in the field. But book-learning alone doesn't make you an impactful person in the work of philanthropy. You have to add to that experience. In any profession, if you're working diligently and are learning, being humble as you work your way through successes and failures, you should acquire the kind of experience that makes that study you do come to life and be most virtuous. That's just competence. You have to have confidence. Confidence is not bravado. It's not fake it until you make it. Real confidence grows alongside the development of competence. But to get to your point, the third C is character. What donors want is someone who is competent. They want to recognize a competent professional who is doing their work with excellence and to have that quiet confidence that comes over the course of time. But what they are really looking for is people with outstanding character, people who are virtuous and trustworthy, people who you might say they know they can do business with. They can shake hands and make something happen. If you don't have all three operating, I don't think you can be a master in any profession. Hugh: Absolutely. I have earmarked a few things. I want to talk to you about the correlation between leadership and fundraising. Did you just sit down and say, “I want to write a book?” What was the inspiration, and how did you connect with the people in there, who are all experienced fundraising professionals? Martin: You might find this story curious. Since I turned 30, every consecutive decade since, on the 9th, the 29th, the 39th, etc., I would use that year very deliberately to reflect on my life up to that point, trying to look at success and failure, places for improvement. To look at the next 10 years and try to project what I can do to have an impact. I should say every decade, I got more intense about this, too. Six years ago, when I was 59, I was really working through that year. I decided in that spring to take 100 days and really drill down about the future. Every day in my journal, Day 1/100, Day 15/100, I began my journal. Journaling is part of my morning ritual. Seeking ahead, you might say. Believe it or not, around day 72/73/75, I have what I call a small I, inspiration. The inspiration, as I referred, was to give back to the profession. I wanted to start there. I thought, Well, I had done so much mentoring and coaching and fundraising with staff and volunteers. I was very good at doing something briefly. Somebody asked a question, as you can tell, I can go on for five minutes. Five minutes, I can give a good answer that would be appreciated. Maybe I could do some brief videos. Then I thought, Well, not everyone wants to watch a video, let alone look at me for a few minutes. People prefer to read. Let me do both. So the genesis of the book logistically was transcribing my first year and a half of videos on these very subjects. Hugh, you may know this, and your audience may also. Seven minutes of video, especially the speed at which I talk, only translates to a few pages. I got into this and thought, I am not going to have a book. The other part of this was I never tried to give a comprehensive answer about something. It was more stuff I noodled about, experimented with, discovered that I thought was helpful. That is what prompted me to go out and recruit 26 others to join me as collaborators in this. It was a fun experience because maybe 60% of them I knew, some very well, but the others I went out and recruited based on word of mouth and reference. I had to establish a relationship with them, like a donor, and ask them for their assistance. I found overwhelming willingness to be supportive. Hugh: Wow. 26 of them here, all by name. Each chapter says, “Collaboration.” Speak a little bit about how collaboration works for you, and how it manifested itself in the book. It's interesting how you have each section with dots and italics to stand apart, where there is a dialogue. Martin: What I was trying to do was say something about the particular subjects, insight and angle. I had come to realize through experience and effort and training. Then I wanted to enrich it. I tried to find people. I called them collaborators. In other words, I wanted to start with what I had to say about a particular subject and ask them to add to it. Nobody really directly contradicted me as a collaborator. But they collaborated in the sense that they took the content seriously and enhanced it with their own reflections. Many of them added stories that put the flesh on the bones of the point of the chapter. It was interesting. If I had asked people to write it, they wouldn't have written it because they were too busy. I had somebody help me interview them. We came to it in different ways based on the needs and availability and interest of my collaborators. I tried to collaborate logistically and practically in order to have them help, but they were generous about their time. The thing about this word “collaboration” is the goal is a joint thing we do together. The goal is to bring the best of more than one person to bear in order to, as you talk about with synergy with your organization, to get that synergistic gain, to get that exponential gain that you can't get with just yourself necessarily. Even if you have the authority with CFRE. Hugh: People introduce me sometimes as Hugh Ballou, an expert in leadership. I say, “I'm Hugh Ballou, a serious student of leadership.” Martin: Hear, hear. Hugh: The title of this episode is, “Fundraising in COVID-19.” And the post-COVID-19 world. There are some consistent things and some new thoughts. That chapter with leadership, the Three C's, your collaborator said, “ABC: Authenticity, belief, and confidence.” You and I were talking before about how fundraising is terrifying for a lot of us. I don't want to go. It's like when I was a teenager calling a girl for a date. I didn't want to get turned down, so I stood by the phone and sweat. Is that like people wanting to make a money call? What is it about trying to raise money that is so fearful? Martin: I don't know. It's all about fear. It's the fear of the unknown. It's the fear of being rejected. The fear of fumbling your way through it. The fear of someone being rude to you. If you will be embarrassed in front of them or embarrass them. It's something new. I haven't done it before. For those in religious work, it's unseemly. I shouldn't have to do that kind of thing as a pastor. Leave that to someone else to do. There is a lot of things. When I first got into major gift fundraising, in the St. Louis area, I would criss-cross southern Illinois, a larger rural area, sometimes driving an hour or an hour and a half to see someone. Talk about sweating bullets. I would rehearse half the trip, “Hugh, would you and Mary consider a gift for the education of poor elementary kids, a gift of $10,000? You could even pay that over three years.” I would say that over and over again because I couldn't trust myself. When I first began to do it, and I fumbled, it was a long drive back, knowing I hadn't done what I set out to do. I began to rehearse very seriously. Once I got in the home or the office, who knows what might happen? It might be something I couldn't predict. All I had to do was say, “Hugh and Mary,” and out would come the rest because I had rehearsed it. For those of you being called upon to raise money, practice makes perfect. You can do it. But let me shift into something more serious. Fundraising is a privilege. Fundraising is the most honorable of work. Fundraising is a spiritual work. Fundraising is actually a vocation. I came to this once I was talking to a very wise woman about fundraising and the struggles. She said, ‘Martin, you're in a helping profession.” A helping profession? I had never thought of it that way. I thought, Especially now, physicians, nurses, first responders, educators, oh my gosh, the young families. Two of my kids are educating kids at home. They have a manifold of appreciation of what it takes to be an educator now that they are trying to do that in their living rooms and around the kitchen table. But I hadn't thought of my profession of being something that was actually about helping. That's what it is. What we do as fundraisers are facilitators in effect. I like to refer to myself as a facilitator of philanthropy. What we do is on behalf of worthy causes. In effect, what we want to do is come alongside, almost put our arm around someone's shoulder, and say, “Look, there is an opportunity that makes sense to you as I have gotten to know you, and through which you can demonstrate great impact on this world. Here is the idea. Would you consider it?” That kind of work is very powerful and honorable work. I have had the privilege, as many of your audience have had, of interacting with some people of extraordinary success, Fortune 25 executives. I have had some of those people say to me, “Martin, I could never do that job. That is too hard a job.” Some of them knew it first-hand because they were chairmen of nonprofits or board members. They were called upon to go out and do it. They knew first-hand what I was doing full-time. They respected it. We underestimate the value, the contribution we are making in this work. Hugh: Wow. That's a paradigm shift. Somewhere, and it may be in this chapter, “Five Generous Fundraisers,” before we talk more about donors, let's consider you as the fundraiser. Somewhere, you talk about the impact it has on donors to actually donate. There is a point of philanthropy that releases something in you to make that donation, to see something happen. Talk about that. That is an inspiration that we don't think about, the impact that it has on the donor. Martin: First of all, it's all about the donor. What we tend to do is focus on ourselves. In one sense, we should because we want to be professional and effective and do the job with excellence. We also want to represent our organizations with integrity, as effectively as we can. It's all about the donor. What we're into is a business of building lifelong relationships, not just after a transaction. We want to build and support the relationship that the donor has with the organization for their lifetime hopefully. In that relationship-building process, there are opportunities for financial exchange. What this is about is not a transaction although writing a check or giving away stock or a document with a commitment is part of it. But what it's really about is helping people to influence the world for the better, and to demonstrate their values and what matters most to them. In that process of a donor taking their eyes off of themselves and looking outward, looking at, “Okay, I have been fortunate enough to have accrued these assets,” rather than being preoccupied with how I could take care of myself, I am going to give it to others or to the world to improve it. As they do that, they become greater people. Biochemically, by the way, we change. Enzymes are released. One person called it the family bonding enzyme. I used to notice that somebody would make a big gift to one of my organizations and suddenly they would be everywhere. They would be at every event, bringing friends and colleagues, talking about the organization with great enthusiasm. What's this all about? By their making a serious commitment, a gift of greater significance, there was something that happened within their entire being. A wise man, as you know, once said, “It's better to give than to receive.” There is something we receive as an internal, spiritual, reward by giving of ourselves generously. One of the ways we give ourselves generously, certainly in this contemporary age, is with financial resources in addition to our time and talents. Hugh: That's so good. The other thing I earmarked is you wrote this chapter about the donor development cycle. There is a transaction, and there are those who never ask for the sale. I have been there many times. One higher net worth person asked me, “You didn't ask for the sale.” It was my first conversation to get acquainted. But he was a businessman, “What do you want?” Another one, I am packing up to leave after I told him about what I was doing. He said, “Don't you want a check?” Then he wrote me a check and handed one to me a lot bigger than I thought. That was about relationships. But this cycle, you go through steps, identification, qualification, and more. Talk about the process. There is a transaction, but there is a lot more to this process. Martin: The bottom line is this is about a relationship. In the course of a relationship, you go through seasons. In this particular cycle that we use in our fundraising business, you identify. Then qualify, which means are these people of capacity? Are these people who have an interest or potential interest in what we represent? Then we cultivate, which is about building a relationship and involving them in the organization. That can include charitable giving, but not a gift of greater significance. As we get to know them, we are able to think about, Okay, given what they are interested in, how does that align with what we are about as an organization? What dimensions of our organization would be something that would make sense to them, that they would desire to support? Then we have the conversation about asking. Some people are proponents of never asking for money. They just listen their way to a gift. I have always believed to have conversations about money, about scale, about impact, about size. That might be, with this amount, you can do this and that. Provide some options. But I always want to be working with numbers. People want to know what we would like them to do. My experience has been perhaps more often the opposite of yours. If I don't ask, I get something smaller than what I had hoped for. I have always been one to say, “Let's talk about money.” It's a part of life. It's how we carry on in this world. Most people want to get to the bottom line, “How much do you want?” They can say yes, no, maybe so. They want to make that happen, but they can't make that happen now, or they will have to think more creatively about it. They can't write a check. I have always taught our people the 80/20 rule. Listen 80% of the time. COVID-19 has brought us to a hard stop here in some respects, but when you think about the frenetic pace of life that has only gotten faster and faster during our adult years, it has reached the point of sheer lunacy. Was anyone listening to anybody? One of the reasons we are such a divided nation is we completely lost the ability to listen, and listen with respect. What I found in fundraising, and I think many professionals in other fields would say the same thing, if you want success in your life, in your business, in your endeavors, you listen. It wouldn't be that I would listen 100% of the time. But what I found is people desperately wanted to be heard. They wanted to be listened to attentively, appreciatively, and respectfully. Honestly, when I think about to what extent I was a great fundraiser in my career, it's because of the power of listening. I have to ask for money, too. But listening puts us in that best position to understand. What I would do is retain, record, and retrieve. Three R's. Retain. Somebody had something to say during the course of the conversation. I was listening closely and thinking, That's important. Record. I would get in the car, call my assistant, and tell them, “Start taking notes.” Or I'd get back to the office and start typing at my computer. I would record all the various things I thought would be insightful and helpful, not just for me, but for anyone in my organization who would have reason to engage with those people. This is all about preparation. When I would prepare for my next visit, I would retrieve. The thing is in work like this, we are in front of different wonderful people each day. If a month has passed, there is no guarantee I would remember what someone said was important to them a month ago. One way I would respect them is I would retain, record, and retrieve, so that when I would return to them, I could say, “Hugh, so how's Mary Alice doing? You were talking about her facing that surgery.” Or, “Hugh, how's that billy goat dog of yours doing? You were worried about this.” Or, “Hugh, you said you were going to be marrying off your son Charlie. How'd it go?” People know I am representing the organization, but they love the fact that I listened to them as people. I cared about them as people. Do you think when it came to talking about a gift eventually, that put me in a better position to be taken seriously? Without question. It seems like, Geez, this is common sense, isn't it? We have lost a lot of common sense. Hugh: The problem with common sense is it's not very common. *Sponsored by EZCard* Let's pivot. You talked about some brilliant reframing of some old scripts we tell ourselves that minimize ourselves. I am guilty as anybody else, maybe more. That's not my job. I teach leadership. We have been in an era of lockdown. We are going back to work in Virginia. Churches are a sort of meeting with very limited engagement. No children. No singing. There is a new paradigm of how the exercise classes are in the parking lot with rain all week. People are getting paychecks from unemployment. What if that money runs out? Then what? We are facing some new challenges. How does that impact fundraising going forward? Martin: If you look back to the great recession, some sectors did better than other sectors in terms of fundraising. In the great recession, I had just come to the University of Missouri to take a campaign that was already underway public. I was there a month, and the economic sky fell. The world was thrown in the craziness. It doesn't exactly line up with our situation today, but there are some similarities certainly. Long story short, we decided to go ahead with our campaign. In my first year there, we raised 54% more than any other year in the history of that institution. When I hear someone say, “Boy, we can't ask for money now. People don't have it,” I immediately say, “That's not necessarily true.” One thing I would say is this: If somebody is philanthropic, and they have less money, are they less philanthropic? I don't think so. Philanthropy is a part of a value system. Let me ask you this about the organization you represent. Has its value proposition changed because of this pandemic? No, it hasn't. Now, if you are a food bank, there might be more urgency, immediacy. Crises bring out people's desire to try to do something for others, whether it's by cutting a check or by cheering on the streets for the first responders and nurses. People want to be supportive. One way they are supportive is certainly with their philanthropic support. Hugh: Love it. Would you like to have some questions from our audience? Martin: As long as they're all soft balls. Hugh: No guarantees. There's Jeffrey Fulgham from Richmond, Virginia. He is a CFRE and has done many good things. Used to be in Lynchburg, but moved just a couple hours away. Do you have a particular observation or question for our guest today? Jeffrey Fulgham: I don't really have a question, but I love what I'm hearing, Martin. The first thing when I came on (I missed the very beginning) is the part you were talking about studying, and that's only part of the equation. You can glean all this information, but if you started moving through your presentation, you were talking about relationships, which has always been the meat of this business. It's never more important than it is right now of letting folks know we care about them, and you hit that nail right on the head. That's what I have been preaching to my clients and associates: how important it is to stay connected to people and let them know that this relationship is a personal relationship before a financial relationship. I really liked what you said about character because I think that's the core of what we're doing. It's the core of leadership. If you don't have the character, you probably shouldn't be a fundraiser or in leadership either. The other thing that you mentioned about evaluating, that was so good. I didn't start doing it early enough. I wish I had done it the way you did it. The last five years, I have taken the month of December, or January because we are so darn busy in December that we don't have the time. I did a post-mortem on the year and on my life. How could I be better? This is great stuff. I'm glad I connected today. Martin: Jeffrey, pleased to meet you, and thanks for your great comments. I'm glad I'm in the ballpark with mine. One of the things, in fact, I just did a podcast on this, writing a chapter on someone's book on morning rituals. Every morning, as part of my morning ritual, I have one page in my personal/professional planner (I call it that), and I review what matters most about my life. That is a way for me to get locked and loaded for the day, in order to go forth and have the greatest impact possible, as a professional, but as a person. What am I all about as a person? Being able to define that, have it clarified, reviewing it every day has been amazingly powerful. One other thing I would say around the word “authenticity” is people want to be authentic, and they want authentic people in front of them. We don't have to be perfect in our work, but we want to be respectful, thoughtful, and do it the best way we can. Fundraisers come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities, and they understand that. But they don't want a fake, a snake salesman. They want a human being that they can respect and look up to. That's what they want from us. Jeffrey: I definitely agree with that. That authenticity and character and genuineness, people would ask me about having these relationships with people. I said, “You have to be in a genuine relationship. You can't have a relationship where you want someone to think that it's about the fact that you like them and want to be in a relationship, but it's really about the money, so you are clocking it so that it looks genuine. It might work for a little while, but it won't work for you forever. If you really want to have successful fundraising, it's about long-term relationships with people.” I'm fortunate that I am connected to people who I am three or four organizations removed from now. I still have relationships with them, and I still talk to them, especially right now with everything going on. Staying in touch. That's the fun part of this business. It's the most fun. Martin: The relationships is the most gratifying part of the deal. It's not about the dollars raised although that's great, too, because it can accomplish great things. In our business, we get to meet the most wonderful people. Phenomenal people. When I think about my own personal and professional development, a lot of it was profoundly stimulated by the people I have gotten to spend time with in this work of fundraising. Hugh: And I have gotten to spend time with Jeffrey and Bob Hopkins. Bob, you've been quietly listening. Do you have a question or comment for our guest today? Bob Hopkins: I'm in my backyard outside. Didn't know I had any airwaves back here. Beautiful day in Dallas by the way. I am loving listening to you. After 40 years of doing this kind of thing, you think you know it all. While I might say I do, it's so much fun to remember some of the key aspects of the fundraising process. When you first started talking, I thought, Why doesn't he talk about listening? Sure enough, 15 minutes later, you talked about listening. I am so grateful for that conversation. I teach speech, and I'm teaching people how to talk. But there is a chapter in my book called “Listening.” I spend about five minutes on listening because I don't think people need to know anything about it, and I am so wrong. As you said, the 80/20 thing is so true. I have so many great stories of when I didn't listen, and you know what? I didn't get the gift. Or when I listened and waited and patiently took my time about receiving, that I got about six times more money than I would have gotten had I asked earlier when the person wasn't ready. Martin: It's such a great comment. Pleased to meet you. We talk about this in a lot of fields, the blending of art and science. As I said, developing competency is about education and experience. Maybe that's the better way. This is a work you learn on the job; it's on the job training. As we stick with it, it saddens me when I think about the turnover in the profession. If something is willing to stick with it and keep at it, as you all know, the satisfaction is phenomenal to be in this work. To become competent at it over time is immensely gratifying. Beautiful horse by the way, Bob. Hugh: That's not his current one. He has one he is really proud of. That's his passion. One day, I was having lunch with him in Dallas, and he went off on this horse thing when I asked him about his passion. The principle is 80/20. 80% of your results are produced by 20% of your people. 80% of your inventory only produces 20% of your profits, but 20% produces 80% of your profits. It goes with donors; it's a repeated principle. When I wrote my first book, Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it's about church musicians and transformational leaders. That is when I moved into leadership. It took me 40 years to write this and 30 days to put it on paper when I was leaving the profession. I determined in that book the Ballou 10/90 principle. As a music director, 10% of my job was music; 90% made that possible. I am thinking as far as a professional fundraiser, the 10% is what people see, but 90% is under the iceberg. 90% is relationship, staying in touch, that allows that 10% to happen. There is a lot that happens that is invisible to most people, but that is where the hard lifting is. Let's hit real hard on this. We still have money in the economy. The fed printed more digital currency. Money didn't go away. Some people are struggling to make ends meet, but some companies are doing really well. Google had a record-breaking quarter. Grocery stores are slammed. There are some ministries that are challenged. Some restaurants are out of business. There is still money out there and people who want to make a difference. What is the change of mindset for addressing the new normal here? Martin: In some ways, the mindset hasn't changed. In other words, we have an organization worthy of support that is doing important work in this world. We are engaging with people who want to make a difference with their lives and resources to the extent that they can. They may have taken a hit financially, so they may not be able to do something right now. They may have to structure it differently. Back in the great recession, we mentioned we raised 54% more than any other prior year in the institution's history, that wasn't people writing a bunch of huge checks. People were writing smaller checks, making pledges over longer periods of time, putting gifts in their estates, and so on. Bundle it all together, and it would be a number that was not insignificant for them, but they couldn't do it. Even today, a year ago, someone might give you a large number with checks over a couple of years. Now, they still want to give you that number, but it will be put together in a different kind of package. What we need to do is be sensitive to people. We are all talking the same talk here. We have to put the concern for the people first. There are relationships. If we treat them that way, whether they can make a gift now or later, we are building the relationship for the long term. We are doing our job with the relationship by putting them and their concerns first. We all have stories and connections, a degree or two away from us, of people who have been profoundly impacted by this. We should know it firsthand, and be sensitive as we engage with others. To raise major gifts, it's typically a face-to-face, labor-intensive business. Up until very recently, there hasn't been any face-to-face work. Difficult to have a talk with a donor ten feet apart. Tools like Zoom, even my sister who just turned 80 years old knows how to use Zoom. We can all use Zoom. People welcome Zoom calls or the equivalent. They desire that human interaction. If we get on a call like this, we just have a conversation, and we listen to them, that's powerful. Hugh: whoever thought of this term “social distancing,” it's physical distancing. We are still social. Anti-social distancing. This book is chock-full of stuff that is not rocket science. It's a solid experience when people have been there and done it. Stuff that most of us don't know. You have been around and done this for years; you've practiced this. I'm a musician. We rehearse. You have rehearsed a lot. What I am so appreciative of is you put it in a book to share with people. Why should people have this book? Where can they get it? Martin: Why they should get it is it's a way of staying current in the work. If you are a beginner, it's an insightful introduction to the work. It's getting 27 seasoned professionals' input, not just one's. I call it Five Minutes for Fundraisingbecause each chapter is about a five-minute read. They are stand-alone chapters. You don't have to read it in consecutively. You can go to what resonates or what you need right now. In terms of the book, if you want an autographed one, 15% off, no shipping and handling, go to MartinLeifeld.com and order it there. You can get it on Amazon as well. Like any book, it's available on multiple channels. Hugh: It's not an expensive book. *Sponsored by EZCard* *Message about a Youth Philanthropy Conference on 6/27* This has been a very helpful interview. Lots of good sound bites. What do you want to leave people with today? What is a challenge or thought as we go into the unknown? Martin: Every day we are going into the unknown. That was six months ago, too. It's new every morning, as it says in the Book of Lamentations, for those of you who look at the Bible. What we're after is helping people become greater through philanthropy. We're doing that through putting them first, respecting who they are, helping them to demonstrate their value system to the world. Hopefully, by working with our organization as part of their way of doing so. We are privileged. It's honorable work. It's worth people devoting their lives to. Not to highlight myself, but this is powerful. When I retired two years ago, they had a party for me, which was very nice. A number of the donors were there who I had worked with for years. Unbeknownst to me, they had a video. If you go to YouTube, it's there. This couple who were the first alumni in this young university to reach a $5 million-level gift of cumulative giving was on the video. This is what they said, and I think it pulls it together and certainly represents so much my gratitude for the work of philanthropy in my life. They said, “By teaching us about giving, Martin, you have given us a great gift. Our philanthropic involvement with the university has enhanced our lives on many levels. We owe that to you. Martin, because of your professionalism, expertise, and friendship, you made something that is truly enjoyable even more rewarding. You showed us the way to contribute in a meaningful manner, and this resulted in our receiving so much in return.” Hugh: What a great summary. Martin: Isn't that amazing? That's what it's about. Hugh: It is amazing. You have touched people's lives on both ends of the spectrum. Martin, thank you for sharing your wisdom and time with us today. Martin: Thank you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Don't Stop Networking, Just Do It Differently Interview with Dr. Ivan Misner Dr. Ivan Misner is the Founder & Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world's largest business networking organization.  Founded in 1985 the organization now has over 9,400 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world.  Last year alone, BNI generated almost 12.3 million referrals resulting in $16.7 billion dollars worth of business for its members. Dr. Misner's Ph.D. is from the University of Southern California.  He is a New York Times Bestselling author who has written 24 books including one of his latest books – Who's in Your Room? He is also a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been a university professor as well as a member of the Board of Trustees for the University of La Verne. Called the “Father of Modern Networking” by CNN and one of the “Top Networking Experts” by Forbes, Dr. Misner is considered to be one of the world's leading experts on business networking and has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world.  He has been featured in the L.A. Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York. Times, as well as numerous TV and radio shows including CNN, the BBC and The Today Show on NBC. Among his many awards, he has been named “Humanitarian of the Year” by the Red Cross and was recently the recipient of the John C. Maxwell Leadership Award.  He is also proud to be the Co-Founder of the BNI Charitable Foundation.  He and his wife, Elisabeth, are now “empty nesters” with three adult children. Oh, and in his spare time, he is also an amateur magician and a black belt in karate. More information at: www.bni.com www.ivanmisner.com   Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings everyone. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome back to a new episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, where we talk to leaders and get their secrets to success, what they found that's worked, what didn't work, what's their wisdom. Each week is a different person from a different place with a different experience, but they have a passion for excellence. Today's guest is the founder of a really neat networking group called BNI. I will let him tell you a little bit about BNI. I have been a member over the years, and I have done networking as a nonprofit leader, as a church professional, and as a business professional. I find out that networking is as misunderstood as leadership is. There are a whole lot more varieties of what people call networking, but Ivan Misner stands alone as a person who has developed a whole new system for networking. Ivan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange today. Ivan Misner: Hugh, thank you very much for having me here. You're right. I am the founder of BNI. We have now 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries around the world. But what you may not know about me is I have spent some time in the nonprofit world. My second management job was as an assistant to the president of a nonprofit transportation business in Los Angeles called Commuter Transportation Services, Inc., which was rideshare before there was Uber. It was computers bigger than this room to set up rideshares. It was funded mostly by the government and private corporations. I worked there for a while. I have been on the boards of nonprofit organizations for more than 30 years. Lot of experience in the nonprofit world. Hugh: You know some of the challenges that nonprofits are facing. Today, even more challenges. I like to say that, in the words of my co-publisher of our magazine and friend Jeff Magee, we suck at networking. Suck is halfway to success. Ivan: I like it. Hugh: I stole that from him, but I give him attribution. We go into a crowded room and say, “Hey, it looks like the stock market. We are trying to bid higher than the next person.” But I found my experience in BNI to be relationship-building and also the people I met there, I still know. I'm not active in that anymore. Life has taken me different places. I moved; I didn't get out purposefully. I found it is multi-dimensional. Let's go back. When did you found BNI, and why? Ivan: I started BNI in January of 1985. I was a management consultant. I helped companies with hiring, training, and evaluating employees. I got most of my business through referrals. I was looking for referrals. I went to a lot of networking groups, and the groups I went to were just playing mercenary. I'd go to these meetings, and I felt like I'd been slimed, and I needed to go home and get a shower. Everyone was trying to sell to me. Everyone was trying to sell. I didn't like that. I went to these other groups that were totally social; it was happy hour and hors d'oeuvres. Nobody was doing business. I didn't like either of those groups. I wanted the business, but I didn't want it to be mercenary. I wanted the social, but I wanted it to be relational. What I did was merge this concept of business and relational, and the glue that would hold it together is our principal core value of Givers Gain. This idea of that if I help you, you'll help me, and we'll all do better. Hugh, I'd like to tell you that I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I wanted to help my friends. One thing led to another, and it turned into two, to 10, to 20 groups. By the time it hit 20 groups, I realized, and it happened in less than a year, that I had struck a chord in the business community. We don't teach this in colleges and universities, even in business. I get it. You're a nonprofit. You feel like you aren't prepared. But business isn't prepared either. We don't teach this in school. That's when it hit me that we needed to teach this and provide a platform for businesspeople. We now have 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries. Hugh: 9,500 groups. We have people from a couple countries here, Algeria and Texas. Ivan: Texas is its own country. Hugh: We are in the south. We think California is another country, but we are confused about Texas. Ivan: I grew up in California. It is another country. Hugh: It will fall off in the ocean someday. What my mission is is to help nonprofit leaders think out of their box to learn some really good business principles. Sometimes, in networking, we do the inverse. We don't want to ask anybody for anything. Or we come from a position of need. “Oh, I need this. Help us.” Tell me about the framing that nonprofit leaders, we have clergy, we have executive directors, we have board chairs, we have people in what we like to call the for-purpose, not for-profit, community. What is the mindset we need to have as we approach networking? Ivan: I think the first mindset, and it's something I teach everyone and I think applies in the nonprofit world just as much as in the for-profit, is the foundation of networking is something I call the VCP process: Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. You first have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you move from visibility to credibility. People know who you are, what you do, and that you're good at it. That takes a long time to go from visibility to credibility. But when you get to credibility, then you can move to profitability, where people know who you are, what you do, that you're good at it, and they are willing to refer people to you. They are willing to bring people to you, whether it be a for-profit enterprise or a nonprofit enterprise. They are willing to refer you, support you, help you. That takes time. Networking is much more about farming than it is about hunting. It's about cultivating relationships with other business professionals. I think this fits the nonprofit world well, but I don't think the nonprofit world knows that. They keep thinking they're different. The VCP process applies to both. Hugh: Absolutely. We have this brilliance we can offer. We feed people, we clothe people, we help people get jobs. We do all this philanthropic work. That is our mental capital. Over here, we want financial capital. There is a space in between where you do what you're talking about. It's relationship capital. Ivan: It's social capital, yeah. Hugh: We build that. It's relationship. It's trust. It's being social.  I don't care if you're an introvert or not, and it takes energy away from you. It's still important for the leader and the board. Tell us about your board experience. Did you help them think about networking? Ivan: Let's talk for a moment about, before you asked about the board, you were talking about- The gray hair, things are slipping my mind. Yeah, I have been on a number of boards. I am an emeritus member of the board of directors for the Leroy Haynes Children's Center in the Los Angeles area. I was on their board for almost 20 years. I have been on the board of trustees for the University of La Verne. I am presently sitting on the board of directors for the Austin Boys and Girls Club. I started my own foundation, so obviously I am on the board of my own foundation. I have had a lot of work in the nonprofit world for a long time. The nonprofit world does a lot of really good work. Hugh: Yeah, I was talking about trust and having a conversation. It's a process to go from what we got to offer to people writing a check. Ivan: Yeah. Thank you. When you have that, there are a number of things that one can- You talked about introvert and extrovert. That is the thing I wanted to touch on. A lot of people assume you have to be an extrovert to be good at networking. That's not true. What's really funny- This is absolutely a true story, and I wrote about this about eight years ago on my blog at IvanMisner.com. I have more than 1,000 posts, and I have been blogging there for more than 13 years. One day, I was talking to my wife. We weren't quite empty nesters; our kids were in high school. They were at practice. It's just my wife and me. It was great. This is what it was going to be like. I said something to her, “You know me, honey, I'm an extrovert.” She was like, “No, you're not.” I said, “What do you mean I'm not? Of course I'm an extrovert. I run the world's largest business networking organization. I can't be an introvert.” I have been married 32 years. I don't know if you're married or not, but this is so husband/wife relationship. She's like, “Okay, honey, that's what you think. That's fine. You can be an extrovert.” “No, it's not what I think. I am a keynote speaker. You can't be an introvert.” “Whatever you think.” “Why do you think I'm an introvert?” She had been reading this book and telling me the differences between them. Then she said something that hit me, “Extroverts love to go out to recharge their batteries. Introverts want to hide and get away from everybody.“ “Okay, that definitely sounds like me.” But I am not an introvert. So I walk into my office at home in California, and I got on the Internet and found a test to take. I was going to show her that I am not an introvert. So I take this test. True story. I take this test, and it comes back with “Congratulations, Ivan. You are an introvert who is a situational extrovert.” I looked further, and it said, “When you are talking about something that you are very knowledgeable about, when you are in your wheelhouse, when you are with close friends, you come across as an extrovert. Otherwise, you are an introvert. So go apologize to your wife.” It didn't say that last part, but I did. I said, “Hey, I can't believe this, but you're right. I am an introvert.” Even before I discovered that, I told people introverts can be great at networking. The reason why they can be is that they're much more likely to listen than to speak. A good networker is like a good host, an interviewer. Hugh, you're asking me questions and letting me answer. That's what a good networker is. A good networker asks questions and lets the person speak. Extroverts love talking. What is their favorite subject? Themselves. So people assume that an extrovert is a great networker. That's not true. They are a great networker if they have learned to slow down and be an interviewer. Ask questions just like you are. Hugh: Take a note. Don't use your personality type as an excuse. Ivan: That's exactly right. Hugh: Sometimes, Myers-Briggs and many of those instruments, I am way over on E. When I am in a group where I am not the subject matter expert, I can flip over, and I am quiet. I am a situational introvert. That is a good term. It really is about our processing and our energy. I gain energy. I am a conductor. I finish a two-hour rehearsal, and I am raring to go. I have adrenaline. Other people have to go to bed after a social event. You're so true. When an introvert speaks, they have thought it out, and then, boom, it comes out as a complete thought. Extroverts just blurt it out. It's in process. Our assumption is we are going to have a conversation. The important thing that rose in your conversation to my attention was that we are talking to potential donors. The scenario you just described, we are networking. We want to listen to them. What are they interested in? We want to go up to the ATM, put in a card, and get some cash. Guess what? They don't want to be an ATM. They want to find out what they're interested in. That is a form of networking, isn't it? Ivan: It is. And sometimes you find out it's not a good fit, but you want to find people who it's a good fit. Their values and vision on the impact that they want to make in their community is congruent, resonant with yours. Where you can find those levers that you can pull that are resonant with their goals in life, the things they want to make a difference in, then you have the right person. You have to find out. You have to learn about that individual before you can start trying to pull money out of them. Hugh: Yes. In the social benefit world of churches and nonprofits, we receive money because we provide value. Ivan: Yes. But isn't that the same in business? Hugh: It's all the same. People buy from us because we give them value. There is a trust level there. There is a monetary exchange. It's an exchange of energy, trust. There is lots of ways to think of it. Having conversations, you're so right. It's 10% talking. When I studied coaching, they said, “Coaching is 90% listening. Most of the other 10% is listening.” I have had clients who solved great problems that they have given me credit for when I was a listener. Ivan: And asking questions as a coach. Hugh: Yes. Absolutely. Listening actively. We might already be nervous when approaching a donor or in front of a group or a new network of people. What is your advice to nonprofit leaders? We do have a mix of people on here. Some people have a nonprofit and a business. Some people have a church or synagogue and a business. Some people have only one or the other. What is your advice for people as they are approaching, let's say, a new group opportunity to network with other professionals? We have some anxiety or apprehension or concern about that. What is your advice to get the right mindset as we go into an opportunity to meet new people? Ivan: The right mindset is about building relationships with people. It's not as you said about transaction. It's about the relationship. In one of my books, I wrote something you might find interesting. In a book I wrote called Truth of Delusion, where I ask questions, I say, “Is this statement true, or is it false? Is it a delusion?” One of the statements we made in the book, “You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even at a funeral.” Is that truth or delusion? Of course, the overwhelming majority say, “No, you cannot network at a funeral.” Here is our answer. The answer is it's a truth. But here is the key. This is important. If you hear that answer, you have to hear this first sentence after that answer. You must always honor the event. You don't go to a funeral passing out your business card. That's completely inappropriate. But if networking, as I believe it is, is about building relationships with people, then there is no place that is inappropriate to build a relationship. Let me give you an example. I was at a church function years ago, one of those potluck things in the afternoon. Everybody brings in meals. Lot of fellowship. People are talking. I saw a business guy who I wanted to get to know. He was very successful in the area. I struck up a conversation with him. One of the questions that I suggest people ask, after you say, “Tell me about your business. Who are you? What kind of clients are you looking for?” all the normal stuff. A question I like to ask, but you can't start with this, is, “What are some of the challenges you run into in this business?” He gave me an answer I'd never heard before. He said, “Business is awesome right now. My biggest challenge is I want to give back to the community. But sometimes my years are up, and some years are not up as much. I am having good years one after another, but some are incredible. I don't want to give away all that money. But I am not big enough to create my own foundation. I don't know how to deal with that.” I said, “Have you ever heard of a community foundation?” He said, “No. What are those?” I said, “There are a lot in Southern California. There is the world's largest called the California Community Foundation. You can create a fund under the community foundation under your own name. John Doe Foundation. It's part of the California Community Foundation. There are restrictions on the kinds of things you can do, but they are pretty reasonable.” Back then, it only took $10,000 to open a fund. It may be more now. He said, “Oh my goodness. I have never heard of one of those. Hang on. Here's my card. Would you mind? Do you know anybody there?” “Yeah, I know the VP of Development.” “Would you introduce me?” “I'd love to introduce you.” That's what networking is. You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even in church, if you honor the event. To me, honoring the event is about making connections with people. If you can help someone in some way, then that's what networking is. He was in a business that wasn't relevant to BNI. If I had wanted to call him, if I had called him next week and said, “Hey, it was great talking to you.” By the way, I introduced him to the VP, and he opened up an account like that. If I had called him a week later and asked him to get together to learn more about what he did, do you think he would have taken my call and met with me? Yeah. Why? Because I made the beginning of a relationship. We stayed connected through church. We never did business together. That's what networking is. It's about helping people. It comes back around to you. Hugh: That is a great story. Givers Gain. What is that? That summarizes BNI. How did you arrive at that? We tend to use too many words. It's brilliant in its simplicity. Ivan: It's predicated on a theory in social capital called the law of reciprocity. The law of reciprocity basically is what goes around comes around. If you put things out to the world, it will come back to you. To me, that phrase was the simplest way of explaining what could be a somewhat complex concept. The concept of giving is actually more complicated than it sounds because when you really get to it, people start asking, “When do you know that you're giving too much and not getting anything in return? How do you ask? Do you give, give, give and never ask?” There are subtleties and complexities to the concept of Givers Gain. The bottom line is you have to give to people before you expect them to give you anything. Giving might be a referral to someone else, not selling your business, but giving them ideas, connections. Hugh: Law of reciprocity. Thank you, Napoleon Hill. The problem with common sense is it's not very common. Ivan: It's not commonly applied. Hugh: No. I've been doing this kind of work in the church for 40 years as a music director. People thought I was smart, so I served a 12,000-member church, so they asked me to come do board development and leadership development with them. I developed my third career out of that. I really struggle with how things have changed so dramatically. The work has gotten more and more important over those last 32 years I have been doing this work. It's more important now than ever before in history. In this changed world, in this new normal, it's up to us as leaders to set the bar for the new culture and the new engagement. What are your thoughts about how things have changed, and how networking is important in this new time? Ivan: Listen, networking has always been important. What I have done is codify it and organize it and structure it and explain it in a way that I think is useful. But it's always been important. In terms of leadership, there are a couple of concepts that I was taught by- I did my doctoral work at USC under Dr. Warren Bennis, which was in his day the world's leading expert on leadership. That mantle has been handed over to John C. Maxwell, who is an amazing man. I have had the opportunity to meet him on a number of occasions. Truly holds the crown of the expert on leadership today. But one of the things I learned from Warren when I studied with him was something that I think applies today and will apply 100 years from now in leadership. Two concepts. One is contextual intelligence. The second is adaptive capacity. Contextual intelligence. This is something I don't hear talked about much in leadership other than Warren. You really need to understand the context of the challenge. The context and the players will determine elements of how you address a particular challenge. So you really have to understand the context of this particular problem because the same problem in a different place might not have the same context. It might not play out exactly the same. I will give you an example. The second thing is adaptive capacity. One must have the ability to adapt to the changing contextual intelligence that you are confronted with. We talked about these concepts, and I understood them. I saw it come out and play out in the real world at the university where I was on the board. Warren was speaking. He did an event. I invited him to speak at an event at the University of La Verne. He spoke. It was right before the new president had taken office. He sat there in front of a big audience and said, “What do you guys think of the new president? She's amazing, isn't she?” Everyone thought she was fantastic. She hadn't started yet, but she had been on the campus off and on for more than a month. He said, “Is she prepared, or what?” “Yeah, she's completely prepared.” He said, “From day one, everything will come into place.” “Yeah!” He leaned into the microphone and said, “You're all crazy.” We were shocked. He said, “She's prepared, yeah. But the minute she walks in, there are going to be changes to the environment that nobody predicted. And so her ability to adapt will be critical in the success in her role in this university.” Within 30-60 days after she came in, the university lost its preliminary or interim accreditation for the bar association's law school. Yeah. She had nothing to do with it. She'd been there for only a month, less than two. There was an interim accreditation, and there was one more step to get to fully accredited. Lost it. Completely lost it. She had one year to regain interim accreditation, or it would be lost permanently. Well, you know that requires incredible adaptive capacity. It also requires contextual intelligence. The law school was on a track. It was doing fine. She had to understand the whole board. She had to see the entire chessboard of the university and see where things were going and what she thought was going to be okay actually wasn't. Understanding that a lot of resources had to go to that. A lot of adapting had to take place. That was all part of the leadership process that I think is something that 100 years from now will still be just as important, no matter what the technology or situation. Understanding the context and being able to adapt are key elements of a successful leader. By the way, the university is fully accredited as a law school now. Hugh: Three Feet from Gold, Greg Reid writes about how we don't give up. You're right there. Edison said, “Most people give up just before they succeed.” You and I were talking a bit as we were launching the live feed. We haven't been on airplanes in a while. One person said we're finding out now which meetings could really be held by email instead of having to be there. I haven't been too sad about cancelling some of my trips. It's a whole new world of working from home. I miss the interaction and the chemistry of being present, but I am just as busy as when I was traveling, maybe more. How do we network from home? How do we work from home? We are in the business, and we need to have positive cash flow to do our work. How do we function at home, especially now? Ivan: First of all, I think that we will go back to meeting people in person. That's not going to completely disappear. The genie is out of the bottle a little bit. What I foresee is some kind of hybrid where you will see a lot more done online and a lot done in person. As you know, with BNI, we are talking about 9,500 in-person meetings every week. We had to turn on a dime. We flipped within weeks to 9,500 online meetings. We now run online meetings. When we are out of this great pause (I like to call it that), I think there will be still some groups who may want to continue to meet online. But I think we will end up with some kind of hybrid system. In the meantime, while we are working at home, there are a number of things that are important to know. First of all, I started BNI out of my house. I have worked from home for most of the last 37 years. When I had the consulting business, I remember going to the city to get a business license. This was in 1983. They were like, “Where's your office?” I said, “I work from home.” “Yeah, you can't get a business license.” 1983, you could not get a business license. “That's not a business.” “Yeah, I'm a consultant. I don't need an office space.” “You can't have a license.” I could not get a business license from the city because I was working from home. Things have changed a lot since then. A couple years later, by the way, you were able to get a business license. I started BNI in my home, and I have been working off and on for the last 37 years. Now my office is in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I work here in Austin, Texas. This is my home office I am talking to you from. There are a number of things I could recommend. I hate the phrase “social distancing.” Hugh: Thank you. Ivan: I do. We need to be more social than ever. It's physical distancing. It's not social distancing. I believe we need to be more social than ever. You start with that. Then some of the things I talk about in working from home is you should have a dedicated workspace. I have a nice office. I didn't always have a separate office. Sometimes it was in the corner of the dining room or in a basement. I remember when I got kicked out of one bedroom because we were about to have a child, and I got kicked out of the second bedroom because we were going to have a second child, so I had to move out into an office. As we grew, then I had office space in my homes. I have worked from home most of the last 35 years. Have a dedicated workspace, even if it is a corner of the room. Were you going to say something? Hugh: No. I was just wondering how long it took you to figure out why you kept having children. Ivan: Yeah. I figured that out. It was planned. My wife was the most amazing woman to deal with the pregnancy. She loved being pregnant. It was quite an experience with her. Here's another one. Don't get distracted by bright, shiny objects. I keep this here by my desk because I am always talking to entrepreneurs, and they are always chasing bright, shiny objects. You want to be successful at whatever you're doing, whether it's for nonprofit or for-profit? Here's an important key. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. It doesn't have to be six. It could be five or seven. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. What I see businesspeople do is they constantly chase new things rather than really have a program and work it and work it and work it and work it until it becomes successful. If I have any superpower at all as a businessperson, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I am very persistent. I am good doing six things a thousand times. I think people who do that are much more likely to be successful. Here are a couple of other suggestions. No social media. Now, if it's business, if it's for your nonprofit organization, that's fine. But no cat videos during the middle of the day. They are forbidden. Something happens to the space/time continuum when you get on Facebook, and you end up on some YouTube video an hour later. How did I get here? Stay off of social media unless it's related to your organization. Right now, more than ever, micro-dose the news. Micro-dose the news. I see people who are overdosing on the news. Don't do that. It's so easy to do from home. Don't do it. All you see is doom and gloom and the end of the world. Don't get frozen by fear. Let fear focus you, not put you in a state of fear. Get focused by fear. Don't get frozen by fear. Hugh: As a performer, I had to learn that. When you get on stage, you have all of these people staring at you. You turn around with a baton and 75 musicians and 200 singers. It's like, Ooh. They are all looking at me. I have to tell you, when Berny had me speak on stage, it's a whole lot easier than conducting. But people are staring at you, so you have to have a whole different mindset. There is believing in self that is important, no matter what we are doing here. We have our core values and our guiding principles of how we use those values. We have something worthy, but working, like Jim Rohn used to say, work on yourself harder than you work on your business. I can't tell you how perfectly aligned everything you have talked about today is with what we teach at SynerVision. I have come to call what we are doing now anti-social distancing. I don't know what brilliant person came up with the term, but it is physical distancing. We are more social than we have been before. Ivan: Yeah, I think so. Hugh: I have a blog on that. I am in central western Virginia in the Appalachians. It's lovely this time of year. Ivan is in Austin, Texas. He has given us lots of bites of wisdom today. You could be listening to this during the isolation we have, semi-quarantine, whatever we call this. Ivan: The great pause. Hugh: It's like a music, you have a GP, a grand pause. I teach my leadership principles. One of them is value the rests, which makes everything else work. There are rests in music for a purpose. It's not absence of sound; it's a clarity place. I am finding this is a great time for clarity. You have that shiny thing. What is it? It's a jewel. Ivan: I don't remember where I got it. As soon as I saw it, I knew I had to have it. Hugh: You're under my control. Watch this. Nonprofit leaders are social entrepreneurs. We all ought to be social entrepreneurs because we have the triple bottom line: people, planet, and profit. People ask me, “Do all you entrepreneurs suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no. We enjoy it.” There is this certain possibility mindset that we have. We have this vision. It's important, and the stuff you talk about leadership, I quote John Maxwell and Bennis in my writings and books and online courses. Working at home is the new normal, and the new normal going forward is going to be a hybrid. Many of our for-purpose social benefit communities have to be out there feeding people. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia. We have the highest per-capita poverty in Virginia, like 25%, with 28 agencies who feed people. It's important for them to network amongst themselves, which they are not really doing. There is a space for us to learn about networking that is critical. It comes from leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. I quote John Maxwell a lot. There is network, a verb and a noun. Bob has a question. Let me let Bob talk. Bob Hopkins from Dallas, Texas. Why don't you ask your question in person? Bob Hopkins: Okay. Hi, Ivan. Bob Hopkins here. By the way, that picture you see was 40 years ago. I am an old man like you. I have white hair. Ivan: I'm just glad I have hair. I don't care that it's white. I'm just glad I still have it. Bob: I have lots of it, too. Thank you. I am a college professor. I teach in Dallas. I taught at UTA for about 10 years, and now I am teaching junior colleges. I teach speech communications, and I teach networking. Ivan: Let me clarify my statement. It's usually not full-time professors on these webinars. Let me clarify my statement. I only know of one university in the United States that has a core curriculum university course on business networking. That is the University of Michigan, taught by Dr. Wayne Baker. That is the only university in the United States. Do teachers talk about networking during class? I think they teach mostly the wrong stuff, not necessarily the right stuff. There are no courses on networking to speak of in the world. Bob: I know that. Because I think networking is so important, I couldn't have done what I have done or be where I am without who I knew. Of course, I tell my students, it's not what you know, it's who you know. Ivan: Wait. Let me add to that. I don't think it's what you know or who you know. It's how well you know each other that counts because the question is, do I know that person well enough that I could pick up the phone and call them? Would they take my call? If I asked them for a favor, would they be willing to do the favor? It's not just knowing somebody; it's knowing them well. That's the key. I'm sorry. I keep interrupting you. I'll stop. Bob: The rest of the story is I have them write 250 people that they know down, whittle it down to 25 who are in their circle of influence that they can rely on, and that they do know, and they consider their mentors and counselors and parents and grandparents, etc. They have to write them a letter. The letter is, “I love you so much. I want us to continue this. I want to have your back and you have mine, so I want you to know you are in my circle of influence.” What you said is true. I like what you said about how well do I know these people? That is the important thing. My question is: Why not? Why are we not teaching this? Why is the academia? Is it because they have never been in business and don't know the importance of it? Ivan: That is my answer. Are you a full-time professor or adjunct? Bob: I'm adjunct. Ivan: So you know. I was an adjunct professor for 16 years. You know that it's the full-time tenured professors who control the curriculum. Even the president of the university does not control it. When you are talking about business professors, it's the full-time tenured professors who determine the classes. I really get hate mail when I say this. Most full-time tenured professors in business have never run a business. Bob: I know. Ivan: That's why. You can get a Bachelor's in marketing and not know how to sell. We don't teach sales techniques. Most business professors, it's like heaven forbid I should get my hands dirty and make a sale. They love social media. They will teach social media. They love advertising because you don't have to get your hands dirty and sell. They don't teach sales, closing sales, business networking. It's because it's taught mostly by full-time tenured professors. Wayne Baker is the only exception I have ever seen in the last 30 years in Michigan. Bob: The reason I am here is because Hugh and I have connected because I ran nonprofit organizations for 35 years before I started teaching college. I have only been teaching for about 10 years. The nonprofit sector is something I also teach. I have a book called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I teach my students philanthropy. I was called by my dean at one of these universities who said to me, “Bob, nonprofits are not businesses. Why are you teaching nonprofits in your classroom?” Hugh: Oh my. Ivan, I don't know if you can see my screen. But this is Bob's book. It's a brilliant book. There are world-changing, life-changing nonprofits. He has had a long career. Ivan: Bob, I agree with you. I think the lessons learned in business and in nonprofits are oftentimes, at the very least, overlapping, if not the same. Bob: I was excited to know who you are and that you are the one who founded networking. Thank you. Ivan: Well, I founded BNI. Networking has been around for a long time. I organized it. Hugh: Bob, thank you for coming in. Let me prevail upon your secrecy there. Tell him the name of your horse before you leave. Bob: That horse there is not the one that I have now, but the one I have now is named Philanthropy. Ivan: I like it. Hugh: He's all in. Ivan: Bob, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Bob: I'm in Dallas. Once this settles down and the traffic isn't too bad, I will drive to Austin to meet you. Ivan: All right. You got it. Be well. Hugh: Bob is a peach of a guy. I went to Dallas. My wife is a clergy graduate of Perkins School of Theology. The week before the airlines quit taking us places. I had a guest who founded Barefoot Winery. They said, “You have to meet Bob,” and we have connected and have been doing amazing stuff since then. Ivan: That's networking. Hugh: Yes. They accidentally founded a winery. They were marketing people. Great story. I have had some wonderful people in six years on this show. You're giving us really useful, helpful nuggets. This is so good. To find out about BNI, go to BNI.com. And IvanMisner.com. Ivan: IvanMisner.com. I have 13 years of content up there. It's all free. Check it out. Hugh: Love it. Ivan is the man. He has been such an influencer over those many years. Let's talk about the difference between network as a verb and network as a noun. Ivan: How would you define it? Hugh: Having a network, those are people who you have done due diligence with. You know who they are. I spent 40 years in church ministry, music ministry. I never had lunch alone. I always met with somebody. I got the most useful information, and they got information because they asked me questions, “What do you do anyway? We see you an hour on Sunday. What do you do the rest of the week?” I realized the Ballou 10/90 rule. The 10% is what you see, and 90% is what you don't see that makes that 10% possible. Networking is an activity to connect and meet people and to share and to provide value for people. A network is the people who you know. What do you think? Ivan: That's a good definition. Both of them are really, if it's done right, are about relationship-building. It's about the relationships you create. Hugh: Absolutely. Leadership is based on relationship. Communication is founded in relationship. The flow of money is based on relationship. Ivan: Oftentimes. Hugh: Let's talk about something that is not money flow. Let's talk about boards. I am going off being the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra board. I was a guest conductor. They elected me when I wasn't looking to be president. I am going off, and they are doing this board nominating process. This is networking also. We don't know how to make the ask for money or for people. I love it when people ask, “Would you serve on this committee or this board? It's not a lot of work.” You know they're lying to you. How do we come forward? You've been on boards. It may be hard to get the right people on the board. How do we frame the conversation when we want to invite people to consider a board position? Ivan: The first thing you do is you go to them with someone who knows them really well. If that's you, that's great. Otherwise, I think the third party testimonial is incredibly powerful, and when you have somebody who says- Let's say Bob says to me, “Ivan, you really should be active in Hugh's organization. Hugh has done an amazing job. He has created this organization that has done this thing. That should resonate with you because you're interested-“ My emphasis in nonprofits tends to be children and education. I believe children represent about 20% of today's population, but they represent 100% of the future. It's about children and educating them. If he can make that linkage, then he has connected the two of us. Then we can have that dialogue about how I might be able to help you or you might be able to help me. The third-party endorsement process is the best way to get donors, board members, committee members. It's easier for me to say no to somebody I don't know, trust, or like, than it is to say no to someone I know, trust, or like. Hugh: Ah. Point well taken. That's sage advice. I can see why you've been very successful over the years. Starting a business, growing a business, and maintaining the viability of a business are three different things, aren't they? Ivan: Oh yeah. Very much so. An entrepreneur needs to figure out pretty quickly, or even in a nonprofit, when you're in that nonprofit in whatever role, if you want to be happy with what you do, it's very important that you work in your flame and not in your wax. Let me explain that. When you're working in your flame, you're excited, you're on fire, people can hear it in the way you speak, they can see it in the way you act. When you're working in your wax, it takes all your energy away, people can hear it in your voice, and they can see it in the way you act. Over time, the things that are your flame- Let me speak for myself. The things that were my flame when I started BNI are no longer my flame. Many of those things, I don't want to do them anymore. It's very important to learn the skillset of how to delegate effectively, how to select the right people, delegate effectively, put them in charge of that area so that you can continue to work in your flame and not in your wax. 90% of my time is in my flame. This is the fourth interview I've done today. I'm sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI now. I am the spokesman for networking. Hugh: Love it. Tell us about your nonprofit that you founded. Ivan: I started the Misner Family Foundation and the BNI Foundation. Two different foundations we have created. Both focus on children and education. Misner Family Foundation is a private foundation for my family, supporting children and education. The BNI Foundation primarily supports children and education, and it's the charitable arm of what BNI does. We do both activities to help kids locally as well as funding grants and things like that locally. BNIFoundation.org, you can find the website for it. Hugh: BNIFoundation.org. Think about a closing thought or a tip or challenge you'd like to give people who are listening to this. It could be years from now. We have been doing these interviews for six years, Ivan. We've had some incredible people. *Sponsor message from EZCard* Ivan Misner, I don't know why you said yes to come on to my show today, but I'm glad you did. I wrote to you on LinkedIn, we had a short exchange, and you agreed. What thought or challenge or tip do you want to leave people with today? Ivan: We are living through challenging times. I don't know what our future holds, but I do know we can influence it. I do know we can make a difference in it. I also know that your mindset is so incredibly important. I think hope is much more powerful than fear. Fear paralyzes us. It freezes us. When we are afraid of what the future will hold or what will happen, we just freeze. What we need to do right now more than ever is focus, not freeze. That focus can come with hope. The only other thing you need to add to it is action. You have hope, and you take action. When you do those things, you can come out of times like this, and you can make it through times like this. Be creative. Be innovative. Think about what you can do. My nonprofit, the Austin Boys & Girls Club, that I am on the board of, they created something called Club on the Go, where you can come by and pick up food that they package so there is still that social distancing. Be creative. Have hope. And influence your future. That is my closing thought. Hugh: Ivan Misner, you are a gift to all of us. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou, The Transformational Leadership Strategist® is Pastor Kathleen's guest, to talk about the new leadership skills congregational leaders and clergy need for this new time.

In this episode, Dave is excited to welcome Hugh Ballou. Hugh is an incredibly interesting guy. He is an award winning conductor that has become a highly sought after Motivational Speaker, Leadership Trainer, and Author. Hugh teaches leaders around the globe how to build synergy with teams and how to build effective processes that bring success to any organization, He teaches business executives how an orchestra conductor brings out the best skill of the players that have been hired. He works with organizations throughout the globe, has written 5 books on Transformative Leadership, and is the host of the Orchestrating Success podcast. This is a little different show in that Hugh and Dave also recorded this live online, so make sure to not only listen here, but check out the show notes to watch the live broadcast. www.​HughBallou.com www.Hughballoupodcast.com www.HughBalloublog.com Hugh spent his career as a musical conductor working from small to large megachurches and working with top orchestras for almost 40 years. Hugh is an entrepreneur many times over having had many businesses including a small camera store he bought in Florida that was barely surviving and made it into a multi-million dollar enterprise. Hugh talks about what he calls “pull leadership” and how being a conductor is not being a dictator, but being an influence that helps people to perform at a higher level. How do the principles of conducting an orchestra translate and relate to creating a successful business? You must have a clear vision of where you are going and a written plan (strategy) to get there The conductor can't play the instruments, but can only train people and pull them to raise the bar on their own performance. Leading a business requires the same actions. As a leader, you must be willing to train and pull people to raise the bar. What are things that leaders can do to help people raise their bar? If you want to transform your results and your team, you begin by transforming yourself. Leadership is about identifying your gaps – what you are and aren't good at. Attention to detail is critical. Leaders shape the culture, but must have a clear vision to do so. At the 10 min mark, Hugh discusses his 4 Leadership Principles in detail and how to execute them: Foundation – Where you are going Relationships – Who you are working with (Hire the best people) Systems - Rehearse for success Balance - Strategic rest/making it all work "How we do anything is how we do everything” You must be transparent and be willing to be vulnerable. Being vulnerable and transparent is misinterpreted as a weakness. People will know when you are not authentic. At the 20 minute mark, Hugh talks about the traits of Transformational Leadership. At the 25 minute mark, Hugh talks about challenges he's had to overcome as an entrepreneur and the principles used in doing so. “None of us is as smart as all of us” Compromise is lose-lose, Consensus is win-win It is a simple as believing in self, having a system, and then building the relationships. In order to succeed, you not only need an idea, you must do something about it, regardless of what people say. Act Many people look outside themselves for the answer when the answer is already there within in them. ​ Leadership comes down to 3 things: Leaders get things done Leaders understand how to get things done Leaders influence other people and help them unlock their potential FOCUS = Free of Clutter and Unnecessary Stuff Best Quote: "The Ballou Principle: 10% is what you know. 90% is what you don't know that you don't know. 90% of the iceberg is underwater that holds up the 10%. Stay humble and keep working on your 90%.” Hugh's Misfit 3 Understand why what you are doing or your vision is important. Spend time on this. Focus on the why before the what. Be able to articulate this why and vision carefully. What does it look like? What is the impact it will have when fully developed? We must think of ROI (return on investment), but we must also think of ROL (return on life). Is what you are providing going to make a lasting impact on other people's lives? Hire a coach. You must be aware that you there is more you can learn and be guided on. The most dangerous leader is one who thinks they know it all. Look at that 90% that you don't know.

  Hugh Ballou, Transformational Leadership Strategist Orchestrating Success How does a conductor of orchestras and choirs teach leadership – very enthusiastically! Hugh Ballou teaches leaders around the globe how to build synergy with teams and how to build effective processes that bring success to any organization – no matter how small or how big. “I travel around the country and around the world and find that you can change the name of the organization, the location and the type of structure and you will still have the same issues – leaders not leading effectively! Ballou brings 40 years of experience as conductor to his leadership training. “I call the training Building High Performance Teams, but no one can produce effective teams without fine-tuned leadership skills. I teach business executives how an orchestra conductor brings out the best skill of the players that have been hired. The conductor is a dictator, however, if the conductor hires a good oboe player, then it's best to let that oboe player use his or her skill rather than tell them how to play the oboe!” It sounds silly, however, leaders who micro-manage those whom they lead only receive a fraction of the performance that is ultimately possible. Let the team perform! The skill set of planning for success, constructing powerful goals, and delegating with authority are consistent themes where many leaders underperform. Ballou's unique ability to inspire and motivate even the most difficult of audiences has made him the expert in the field of Transformational Leadership. Transformational Leaders build strong leaders on teams that are motivated, focused and highly effective in setting and implementing powerful goals. As author of numerous books on Transformational Leadership, Ballou works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields