Podcast appearances and mentions of hugh ballou

In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, had the pleasure of reconnecting with an old friend and seasoned entrepreneur, Clay Hicks. Clay is the founder of H7, a network dedicated to fostering meaningful connections among professionals. Our discussion centered around his trademarked methodology: "Connect, Serve, and Ask," which has been a guiding principle in his work since its inception in 2018. Clay shared his journey as an entrepreneur over the past 23 years, emphasizing his passion for leadership and the importance of building relationships. He recounted how the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" methodology evolved from his experiences of meeting with individuals one-on-one, initially starting in 2014. Through his reflections, he realized the significance of connecting with others, serving them genuinely, and ultimately asking for help when needed. This approach has proven to be a powerful way to earn trust and build mutually beneficial relationships. We delved into the importance of focusing on relationships rather than outcomes, a concept that resonated deeply with both of us. Clay articulated that when we prioritize building solid relationships, the desired outcomes—whether in fundraising, networking, or team dynamics—become more predictable and achievable. He highlighted that this principle is crucial for nonprofit leaders who aim to make a meaningful impact in their communities. As we explored the role of social media, particularly LinkedIn, in building connections, Clay pointed out common mistakes that many make, such as relying on automated messages and failing to provide value in their posts. He stressed the importance of authentic engagement and the need to treat social media as a platform for relationship-building rather than mere self-promotion. Clay also introduced practical strategies for initiating conversations with potential volunteers, board members, and donors. He provided insightful questions to help listeners connect with others on a deeper level, emphasizing the value of understanding their stories and needs. Throughout the episode, Clay's enthusiasm for helping others and his commitment to fostering a culture of trust and collaboration shone through. He invited listeners to explore H7 and participate in their meetings to experience firsthand the power of networking grounded in the "Connect, Serve, and Ask" philosophy. In closing, Clay left us with a powerful reminder: when we focus on relationships, the outcomes we seek will naturally follow. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their networking skills and build impactful relationships in their work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Nonprofit Lowdown listeners! Rhea here, bringing you the final episode of 2024. It's been a year full of incredible insights, heartwarming stories, and actionable tips for nonprofit leaders like you. I want to take a moment to thank you for being part of this journey — we're officially in our 6th year of the podcast! Can you believe it?!

In this special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, I, Hugh Ballou, have the pleasure of welcoming my dear friend Amit Banerjee, the CEO and president of Philanthropy Kids, a Dallas-based organization dedicated to inspiring and educating young people about philanthropy, volunteerism, and social entrepreneurship. Amit shares his journey and the importance of instilling philanthropic values in today's youth, emphasizing that anyone can be a philanthropist, regardless of age or wealth. Amit begins by outlining his background, which includes a diverse range of experiences from electrical engineering to working with various nonprofit organizations. He highlights how these experiences have shaped his commitment to community engagement and charitable activities. A pivotal moment in his life was participating in a program called PAVE (Philanthropy and Volunteerism in Education) during elementary school, which sparked his passion for philanthropy. We delve into the PAVE program, which operates under the umbrella of Philanthropy Kids. Amit explains that PAVE partners with schools to transform traditional classrooms into environments where students learn about philanthropy, leadership, and social entrepreneurship instead of standard subjects like math or science. This innovative approach engages students in understanding their community's needs and how they can contribute to solving them. Amit discusses the impact of the PAVE program, noting significant improvements in students' demonstrated philanthropic behavior, academic performance, and school attendance. He shares compelling statistics, such as an 8-12% increase in standardized test scores for students who are already passing and a staggering 30-50% increase for those who are failing. These results illustrate that learning about philanthropy not only makes students better individuals but also enhances their academic success. Throughout our conversation, Amit emphasizes the importance of mentorship for young people, encouraging adults to support and guide the next generation. He believes that the innovative ideas and perspectives of youth can lead to meaningful solutions for societal challenges. As we wrap up the episode, I encourage listeners to visit the Philanthropy Kids website at philanthropykids.org to learn more about their programs, get involved, and support their mission. Amit leaves us with a powerful message: "You don't have to be rich or old to be a philanthropist. You just have to care." This episode serves as a reminder of the vital role we all play in nurturing the philanthropic spirit in our youth and the positive impact it can have on our communities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou, leadership expert and former musical conductor, delves into how influencers, much like conductors, shape teams through value, relationships, and synergy. Unpacking his four leadership principles—foundations, relationships, systems, and balance—Hugh reveals how these tenets foster high performance and accountability. Host Brynne Tillman discusses with Hugh the parallels between leading an orchestra and steering a business to success, emphasizing the importance of listening, collaboration, and personal growth. Tune in to understand how to turn individual brilliance into a cohesive, high-performing ensemble.

What does a musician and conductor know about leadership? My guest, Hugh Ballou, sees his work at conducting transformations. He defines what leadership is and isn't and what components go into great leadership. His company, SynerVision is a crossover between synergy and vision. Here are some key points. Listen in for more! Leadership isn't dictatorship - the leader is an influencer! In an orchestra, the leader knows the score and everyone playing knows their part Infrastructure is everything, what you're playing is almost secondary It all comes together - through practice, performance, clarity, and community BIG LEADERSHIP LESSON: Rather than tell people what to do, state your expectation and your availability to mentor. THIS IS A PARENTING TIP, TOO. (Just be sure you're walking the talk and not asking others to do as you say, not as you do.) THE CULTURE IS A REFLECTION of the leader! Rehearse Excellence Four foundational leadership principles: Vision = The Score Be ready to articulate the vision Relationships and Building a Team Hire The Best Systems - create systems that help your team do their jobs That includes the way you run meetings (bad meetings kill productivity) Value the Rests You can't drive and push all the time. You've got to create emphatic balance through clarifying punctuation. Find more about Hugh at: www.AboutHugh.com www.HughBallou.com And for a free, 31-day leadership program, 5 minutes/day, go to www.BetterLeader.me

Fundraising leaving you frazzled?

Here we will get to hear from Hugh Ballou conductor and founder. Hugh Ballou is a Transformational Leadership StrategistTM and Corporate Culture ArchitectTM, leveraging 40 years of experience as a musical conductor to teach leaders in various fields how to cultivate purpose-driven, high-performance cultures. He focuses on enhancing productivity, profits, and job satisfaction while reducing confusion, conflicts, and under-performance. Ballou demonstrates how leadership skills akin to those of a conductor can shape dynamic organizational cultures in business or nonprofit settings.

Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Hugh uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture. In his work with nonprofit leaders and corporate executives for 34+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, Hugh has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change. His books, e-Books, online programs, and live presentations have impacted leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Jen and guest Hugh Ballou as he discusses how his 40+ years as a music conductor helped equipped him to understand communication and build relationships with his team. Stay tuned to learn more.   _________________________ Hey everyone. Welcome back to this episode, my guest today. I've had so much fun getting to know him. Uh, you know, we're also in some other networking together and I've had so much fun getting to know him because what he's gonna be talking about today, I. It's pretty cool. It's just the, it's the angle that he has that makes this so interesting, um, in helping and building high performance leaders and teams. Um, right up. You know, one of the things I really love about this is that we do something very, very similar. It's just the mechanism in how we do it, and that's what differentiates us. And that's something that our, um, listeners hear. So if you're listening to this, you, you wanna hear this is, So a lot of times we feel like we're a commodity in what we do, but it's how you do it that differentiates you. And so you're gonna hear that from my guest today, Hugh Ballou. So welcome to the show, Hugh. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.  ... _________________________ Join the Success to Significance Community Today: YouTube Facebook Instagram Jenduplessis.com Linkedin Book a Strategy Call with Jen TODAY! ____________________

Transcript of episode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Jen is joined by guest Hugh Ballou. Listen along as Jen and Hugh discuss the importance of leadership and building high performing leaders within teams. Get to know Hugh Ballou: How does a conductor of orchestra and choirs teach leadership - very enthusiastically! Hugh Ballou teaches leaders around the globe how to build synergy with teams and how to build effective processes that bring success to any organization - no matter how small or how big. "I travel around the country and around the world and find that you can change the name of the organization, the location and the type of structure and you will still have the same issues - leaders not leading effectively!" Ballou brings 40 years of experience as a conductor to his leadership training. " I call the training Building High Performance Teams, but no one can produce effective teams without fine-tuned leadership skills. I teach business executives how an orchestra is a dictator, however, if the conductor hires a good oboe player, then it's best to let that oboe player use his or her skill rather than tell them how to play the oboe!" It sounds silly, however, leaders who micromanage those whom they lead only receive a fraction of the performance that is ultimately possible. Let the team perform! The skill set of planning for success, constructing powerful goals, and delegating with authority are consistent themes where many leaders underperform. Ballou's unique ability to inspire and motivate even the most difficult of audiences has made him the expert in the field of Transformational Leadership. Transformational Leaders build strong leaders on teams that are motivated, focused and highly effective in setting and implementing powerful goals. As author of 8 books on Transformational Leadership, Ballou works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields the fine-tune skills employed every day by orchestral conductors. Get In Touch with Hugh WEBSITE: https://hughballou.com/ FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/synervisionleadership/ LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/synervision-leadership-foundation TWITTER: https://twitter.com/SVNPOFoundation YOUTUBE: https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCvhvFUwqt_bRPq7b-0_g4aw/videos INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/synervisionleadership/ ____________________ TELL ME I CAN'T! Jen Du Plessis sits down with entrepreneurs who have overcome major obstacles and in some cases, people, in their lives, to launch incredibly successful businesses and grow beyond anything they could have imagined. Watch NOW! ____________________ Join the Success to Significance Community Today: YouTube Facebook Instagram Jenduplessis.com Linkedin Book a Strategy Call with Jen TODAY! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou's Christmas Music Selections from His Conducting Career Hugh Ballou spent 40+ years as a musical conductor and here are some of his recordings from that career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In episode 59 of Mission: Impact, Carol and her guest, Hugh Ballou discuss: How to improve the efficiency of your organization's meetings Why influence is more important than direction when leading The importance of clarity in your communications Guest Bio:Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture. Important Links and Resources: https://hughballou.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/hballou/  https://twitter.com/hughballou?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://www.instagram.com/hughballou/?hl=en

Norah Jones taps SynerVision's Hugh Ballou for his insights into and pathways to transformational leadership in business, organizations, and society.

Connect with Hugh Ballou:Website: https://hughballou.com/Email: hugh@hughballou.com  You can purchase Lauren's book “Finding Your Silver Lining in the Business Immigration Process: An Insightful Guide to Immigrant & Non-Immigrant Business Visas” here- http://bit.ly/silverliningimm Connect with Lauren Cohen:Website: https://ecouncilinc.com/goglobal/Facebook: www.facebook.com/ecouncilincYouTube: http://bit.ly/YT-LaurenesqLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ecouncilincInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/lauren_cohen_esq/Email: founder@ecouncilglobal.com

Hugh Ballou describes how he was able to transfer skills from conducting at megachurches to the executive boardroom. We also discuss delivering effective presentations, applying a results based approach to meetings and thinking outside the box. Learn more about Hugh Ballou through his website: https://hughballou.com And his initiative for non-profit leaders looking to develop business skills at: https://nonprofitcommunity.org

Hugh Ballou is the President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, guiding the life-changing, life-saving global impact of churches and nonprofit organizations. He has 30 plus years of a successful career in orchestrating success: working with visionary leaders integrating strategy into performance.  Key insights from the show include how Hugh brings synergies of orchestrating music at the highest level: How, as leaders, you can invite your team to use their expertise for a shared vision. How to not over function and micromanage. How to have successful meetings by not having agendas but deliverables and clear objectives. Prefer to watch the video version? Watch it here: https://youtu.be/MxrkF8GnhJQ

Clergy Leadership Challenges with Hugh Ballou In this short "T-Talk" (Transformation Talk) in the faith leader empowerment series, Hugh Ballou addresses the 5 top leadership challenges for clergy and all faith leaders: Self-Management Conflict Management Clarity of Vision Over Functioning Emotional Control Hugh Ballou works with visionary leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction. through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills creating a culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director while allowing each person to excel in their personal discipline while empowering the culture as a whole. In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model. Register for the Faith Leader Empowerment Series at http://iRecharge.live Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The idea of “leadership” is the same across the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. Good leadership is rooted in the ability to achieve growing and sustaining the engagement of people to accomplish something extraordinary together. Leadership can make or break an organization. Leadership in nonprofit organizations presents a specific set of challenges and therefore requires a unique set of skills. Executive mentoring and leadership development training can be key to growing nonprofit core competencies among board members and volunteers alike. Our guest for Episode #54 of Charged Up Studio is Hugh Ballou, one of the nation's leading NonProfit strategists. He brings a unique form of leadership training designed to create a team that will better serve an organization and helps them meet their goals. Hugh Ballou is The Transformational Leadership StrategistTM and Corporate Culture ArchitectTM working with visionary CEOs, entrepreneurs, pastors, and nonprofit leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance collaboration culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction, through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning. With 40 years as a musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills and showing leaders in business, church, or nonprofit organizations the power of creating a high-performance culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director. In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 30+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs, and live presentations have an impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance, unlike the traditional consultant model. Website: https://hughballou.com Community Website: https://nonprofitcommunity.org Podcast: https://synervisionleadership.org/the-nonprofit-exchange/ Email: hugh@synervisionleadership.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou is well-known as The Transformational Leadership Strategist™ and Corporate Culture Architect™ who works with visionary CEOs, entrepreneurs, pastors, and nonprofit leaders and their teams. By minimizing confusion, conflict, and under-functioning, he is able to help leaders in businesses develop a purpose-driven high-performance collaboration culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction.Having experienced 40 years handling musical orchestras as the conductor, Hugh utilizes and hones leadership skills that respond to the nuances of the leader in the same way that a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director. This has allowed him to work with Social Entrepreneurs for more than 31 years as he empowers transformation and engagement that ultimately leads to accelerated income. And as part of his practice, he only takes on a few clients at a time to make sure he's able to provide the best support and give attention to every detail for success.With the way that his books, online programs, and live presentations have impacted leaders on a global level, his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance is definitely not like the traditional consultant model.You can learn more, connect, and follow Hugh Ballou on the following links:Website: https://hughballou.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hballou/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HughBallouLeadership/Twitter: https://twitter.com/hughballou?lang=enIf you know anyone that needs to hear what we talked about today, please subscribe and leave us a review or go to https://heart-hustle-and-humor.simplecast.com/.

With just a turn of a wand in one hand, an orchestra conductor has the ability to harmonize a vast array of instruments into a beautiful ballad. To ensure a successful performance, the conductor orchestrates many hours behind the scenes bringing this array of individuals together before ever stepping out on stage. In the like, an entrepreneur will spend many hours behind the scenes practicing, playing, and when ready, picking up your own wand to wave and stepping out onto the business stage for the performance of your life. For Hugh Ballou, orchestra conductor shifted to transformational leadership strategist, he teaches nonprofits and clergy about all the important behind-the-scenes secrets that result in a fine-tuned leadership with an even more harmonious operation. Listen in for a quick fine-tune. Shifter Wisdom: “We really need to equip ourselves for success. Never stop working on yourself and never limit the potential you have. There is potential we all have we can unlock.” (www.bookme.name/hughballou | www.hughballou.com | www.synervisionleadership.org | www.synervisionleadership.org/synervision-magazine | www.hughballou.com/podcast)

With just a turn of a wand in one hand, an orchestra conductor has the ability to harmonize a vast array of instruments into a beautiful ballad. To ensure a successful performance, the conductor orchestrates many hours behind the scenes bringing this array of individuals together before ever stepping out on stage. In the like, an entrepreneur will spend many hours behind the scenes practicing, playing, and when ready, picking up your own wand to wave and stepping out onto the business stage for the performance of your life. For Hugh Ballou, orchestra conductor shifted to transformational leadership strategist, he teaches nonprofits and clergy about all the important behind-the-scenes secrets that result in a fine-tuned leadership with an even more harmonious operation. Listen in for a quick fine-tune. Shifter Wisdom: “We really need to equip ourselves for success. Never stop working on yourself and never limit the potential you have. There is potential we all have we can unlock.” (www.bookme.name/hughballou | www.hughballou.com | www.synervisionleadership.org | www.synervisionleadership.org/synervision-magazine | www.hughballou.com/podcast)

My guest today is Hugh Ballou. Hugh is a Transformational Leadership Strategist and Corporate Culture Architect working with visionary CEOs, entrepreneurs, clergy, and nonprofit leaders and their teams to develop a purpose-driven high-performance collaboration culture that significantly increases productivity, profits, and job satisfaction, through dramatically decreasing confusion, conflicts, and under-functioning.  With 40 years as musical conductor, Ballou uses the leadership skills utilized daily by the conductor in teaching relevant leadership skills and showing leaders in business, religious institutions, or nonprofit organizations the power of creating a high-performance culture that responds to the nuances of the leader as a skilled orchestra responds to the musical director.  In his work with Social Entrepreneurs and corporate executives for 32+ years applying his unique transformational leadership concepts, he has developed comprehensive systems and strategies for empowering leadership leading social change His books, e-Books, online programs and live presentations have impact on leaders worldwide with his unique and proprietary leadership methodology that integrates strategy with performance unlike the traditional consultant model. Here’s what to expect during the episode: The similarities between music directors, programmers, and leadership consultants: being creative without breaking the rules.  What are the elements that hold back nonprofit leaders from success? The importance of defining your goals as a leader to build the roads that lead to them. How can you avoid falling into the pitfall of micromanaging? Giving the opportunity for the board to add their expertise and be involved in the work.  You can listen to Hugh’s podcasts on http://thenonprofitexchange.org and http://BetterLeader.me His website is https://synervisionleadership.org and the community is at https://synervisionleadership.org/community-overview Get Mary’s free training, 3 Mistakes Nonprofit Leaders Make Orienting Board Members by going to http://nonprofitboardorientation.com   Be sure to subscribe to Inspired Nonprofit Leadership so that you don’t miss a single episode, and while you’re at it, won’t you take a moment to write a short review and rate our show? It would be greatly appreciated!   Let us know the topics or questions you would like to hear about in a future episode. You can do that, and follow us, on Facebook. To learn more about our previous guests, listen to past episodes, and get to know your host, go to: Hiland Consulting Connect with Mary! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryhiland Inspired Nonprofit Leadership Facebook Group: https://tinyurl.com/inspirednonprofitleadership Website: https://www.hilandconsulting.org/ Company Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hilandconsulting

Leadership is a skill that we need in many aspects of our lives and in many of our relationships. This is an interview that I did in 2008. The information is good for anyone who wants and needs to show leadership in any situation. Hugh Ballou came to the project with over 40 years experience as a music conductor and he had worked with groups and organizations in many exciting and diverse locations. We talk about his experience, his book, the contributors who share their stories in the book and much more. Many of their experienced are focused around church organizations, but the principles are applicable in organizations, churches, businesses, communities, non-profits and many other situations.

Hugh the Founder and President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation tells you how to establiish the leader's position of influence. You can check him out at https://HughBallou.com/

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don't have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality. Don't we all want to know we've made a difference, and when Hugh hears this from his clients, it melts his heart.

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don't have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality. Don't we all want to know we've made a difference, and when Hugh hears this from his clients, it melts his heart.

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don't have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality. Don't we all want to know we've made a difference, and when Hugh hears this from his clients, it melts his heart.

Transformational leadership casts a vision and empowers the team to realize it through inspired performance. Hugh Ballou works with non-profit and church leaders because he knows they often must work even harder to realize their vision, as they don’t have the power of the paycheck to push for performance. What keeps Hugh going is the profound difference those organizations make in our communities when they are led well and bring their vision into a reality.Working on Purpose Radio Show is broadcast live at 6pm ET Tuesdays on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). This podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com).

3 big ideas discussed in this episode: Leaders lead from a position of influence, and not power to be more effective. Leaders model what they want to see in the culture. Leaders must be clear in defining vision and expectations. Get the show notes and more resources related to this episode here: https://AskJeremyJones.com/200

Nonprofit Fundraising in our COVID-19 World with Martin Leifeld Martin Leifeld, author, coach, consultant, and public speaker directed the raising of over $500 million dollars during his 24 years of fundraising leadership in the St. Louis region. Martin authored the book, FIVE MINUTES FOR FUNDRAISING - A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. MartinLeifeld.com provides nearly 125 video presentations about leadership and fundraising matters. Martin served as vice chancellor for university advancement at UMSL for 10 years. He led a dramatic increase in fundraising, averaging $26.4 million per year. University Advancement had 140 employees and a $16 million budget focusing upon alumni engagement, community relations, fundraising, marketing and communication, university events, and St. Louis Public Radio. Previously, Martin was associate vice president for university development at Saint Louis University and director of development for the Diocese of Belleville, Ill. Martin was named the 2018 Outstanding Fundraising Executive by the AFP St. Louis Regional Chapter. Martin was selected as the 2020 Millard S. Cohen Lifetime Achievement Award from St. Louis Public Radio (KWMU).   Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Every week, we have a guest who has knowledge and wisdom, and experience in a topic. They have been there and done it, and they have some things to share with you. You're sitting in the seat as clergy, nonprofit leader, or board chair. Maybe you're a business person thinking about launching a nonprofit. This series is here to help you think out of the box, think of some new paradigms, and learn from some people who are experienced. Today, my guest is from St. Louis, Missouri. He is the author of this book, Five Minutes for Fundraising: A Collection of Expert Advice from Gifted Fundraisers. Martin Leifeld, welcome. Would you tell people a little bit about yourself, and why is it that you do what you do? Martin Leifeld: First of all, it's an honor to be on your program today, and I appreciate your audience. I hope I can be helpful. I've been in various leadership roles for around 45 years. 25 years of those were in small and larger universities. 25 years, although they didn't overlap exactly with the universities, I have been involved in fundraising. About two years ago, I retired after 10 years as vice chancellor for advancement at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, which is our local urban land grant university here in St. Louis. I had a wonderful run there. Long story short, here in the St. Louis region, which is where I spent my 25 years of fundraising, over $500 million raised, that's a lot of money for St. Louis. It's not about the dollars raised; it's about the involvement, the lives changed, and the impact because of the dollars raised. Two years ago, I retired. It wasn't my timing, to be honest with you. I had health issues. My handle in the last couple of years has been author, coach, consultant, and speaker. A little bit of everything. I think you know what I mean. I have a website, MartinLeifeld.com. There are over 120 videos there on fundraising and leadership. You were kind enough to point out the book. I have been doing podcasts, a couple dozen of them, and regular postings, particularly on LinkedIn. I am trying to give back. This is all about trying to give back to a profession that has been such a blessing for me, so good for me in so many respects. Certainly developed professional skills. I have grown as a person by doing this extraordinary work of fundraising. Hugh: We have in the audience two fundraisers who are CFRE. They're here because they heard about you. We'll let them ask questions later. Martin: I'm beginning to sweat, Hugh. Hugh: They're very nice people. Martin: I hope so. Hugh: I had a funding professional last month. He said he reads a fundraising book a week. My area is transformational leadership and the conductor. The best leaders I worked with in corporate or nonprofits are the people who are always working on themselves. The famous speaker Jim Rohn always said, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” I wrote that down and have been working on it ever since. 73, and still working. Martin: I'm impressed by somebody who would read a book weekly. There is a chapter in the book called, “The Three C's of Fundraising.” The first is competence. If you want to be involved in fundraising, being somebody of impact who makes a difference, you have to develop competency. There are two ways to do that. One is lifelong learning. You are a student of the game, of the practice. That can include certifications and the like. You mentioned CFRE, which makes me nervous. You go to webinars like this, podcasts, so on and so forth, to remain educated and current in the field. But book-learning alone doesn't make you an impactful person in the work of philanthropy. You have to add to that experience. In any profession, if you're working diligently and are learning, being humble as you work your way through successes and failures, you should acquire the kind of experience that makes that study you do come to life and be most virtuous. That's just competence. You have to have confidence. Confidence is not bravado. It's not fake it until you make it. Real confidence grows alongside the development of competence. But to get to your point, the third C is character. What donors want is someone who is competent. They want to recognize a competent professional who is doing their work with excellence and to have that quiet confidence that comes over the course of time. But what they are really looking for is people with outstanding character, people who are virtuous and trustworthy, people who you might say they know they can do business with. They can shake hands and make something happen. If you don't have all three operating, I don't think you can be a master in any profession. Hugh: Absolutely. I have earmarked a few things. I want to talk to you about the correlation between leadership and fundraising. Did you just sit down and say, “I want to write a book?” What was the inspiration, and how did you connect with the people in there, who are all experienced fundraising professionals? Martin: You might find this story curious. Since I turned 30, every consecutive decade since, on the 9th, the 29th, the 39th, etc., I would use that year very deliberately to reflect on my life up to that point, trying to look at success and failure, places for improvement. To look at the next 10 years and try to project what I can do to have an impact. I should say every decade, I got more intense about this, too. Six years ago, when I was 59, I was really working through that year. I decided in that spring to take 100 days and really drill down about the future. Every day in my journal, Day 1/100, Day 15/100, I began my journal. Journaling is part of my morning ritual. Seeking ahead, you might say. Believe it or not, around day 72/73/75, I have what I call a small I, inspiration. The inspiration, as I referred, was to give back to the profession. I wanted to start there. I thought, Well, I had done so much mentoring and coaching and fundraising with staff and volunteers. I was very good at doing something briefly. Somebody asked a question, as you can tell, I can go on for five minutes. Five minutes, I can give a good answer that would be appreciated. Maybe I could do some brief videos. Then I thought, Well, not everyone wants to watch a video, let alone look at me for a few minutes. People prefer to read. Let me do both. So the genesis of the book logistically was transcribing my first year and a half of videos on these very subjects. Hugh, you may know this, and your audience may also. Seven minutes of video, especially the speed at which I talk, only translates to a few pages. I got into this and thought, I am not going to have a book. The other part of this was I never tried to give a comprehensive answer about something. It was more stuff I noodled about, experimented with, discovered that I thought was helpful. That is what prompted me to go out and recruit 26 others to join me as collaborators in this. It was a fun experience because maybe 60% of them I knew, some very well, but the others I went out and recruited based on word of mouth and reference. I had to establish a relationship with them, like a donor, and ask them for their assistance. I found overwhelming willingness to be supportive. Hugh: Wow. 26 of them here, all by name. Each chapter says, “Collaboration.” Speak a little bit about how collaboration works for you, and how it manifested itself in the book. It's interesting how you have each section with dots and italics to stand apart, where there is a dialogue. Martin: What I was trying to do was say something about the particular subjects, insight and angle. I had come to realize through experience and effort and training. Then I wanted to enrich it. I tried to find people. I called them collaborators. In other words, I wanted to start with what I had to say about a particular subject and ask them to add to it. Nobody really directly contradicted me as a collaborator. But they collaborated in the sense that they took the content seriously and enhanced it with their own reflections. Many of them added stories that put the flesh on the bones of the point of the chapter. It was interesting. If I had asked people to write it, they wouldn't have written it because they were too busy. I had somebody help me interview them. We came to it in different ways based on the needs and availability and interest of my collaborators. I tried to collaborate logistically and practically in order to have them help, but they were generous about their time. The thing about this word “collaboration” is the goal is a joint thing we do together. The goal is to bring the best of more than one person to bear in order to, as you talk about with synergy with your organization, to get that synergistic gain, to get that exponential gain that you can't get with just yourself necessarily. Even if you have the authority with CFRE. Hugh: People introduce me sometimes as Hugh Ballou, an expert in leadership. I say, “I'm Hugh Ballou, a serious student of leadership.” Martin: Hear, hear. Hugh: The title of this episode is, “Fundraising in COVID-19.” And the post-COVID-19 world. There are some consistent things and some new thoughts. That chapter with leadership, the Three C's, your collaborator said, “ABC: Authenticity, belief, and confidence.” You and I were talking before about how fundraising is terrifying for a lot of us. I don't want to go. It's like when I was a teenager calling a girl for a date. I didn't want to get turned down, so I stood by the phone and sweat. Is that like people wanting to make a money call? What is it about trying to raise money that is so fearful? Martin: I don't know. It's all about fear. It's the fear of the unknown. It's the fear of being rejected. The fear of fumbling your way through it. The fear of someone being rude to you. If you will be embarrassed in front of them or embarrass them. It's something new. I haven't done it before. For those in religious work, it's unseemly. I shouldn't have to do that kind of thing as a pastor. Leave that to someone else to do. There is a lot of things. When I first got into major gift fundraising, in the St. Louis area, I would criss-cross southern Illinois, a larger rural area, sometimes driving an hour or an hour and a half to see someone. Talk about sweating bullets. I would rehearse half the trip, “Hugh, would you and Mary consider a gift for the education of poor elementary kids, a gift of $10,000? You could even pay that over three years.” I would say that over and over again because I couldn't trust myself. When I first began to do it, and I fumbled, it was a long drive back, knowing I hadn't done what I set out to do. I began to rehearse very seriously. Once I got in the home or the office, who knows what might happen? It might be something I couldn't predict. All I had to do was say, “Hugh and Mary,” and out would come the rest because I had rehearsed it. For those of you being called upon to raise money, practice makes perfect. You can do it. But let me shift into something more serious. Fundraising is a privilege. Fundraising is the most honorable of work. Fundraising is a spiritual work. Fundraising is actually a vocation. I came to this once I was talking to a very wise woman about fundraising and the struggles. She said, ‘Martin, you're in a helping profession.” A helping profession? I had never thought of it that way. I thought, Especially now, physicians, nurses, first responders, educators, oh my gosh, the young families. Two of my kids are educating kids at home. They have a manifold of appreciation of what it takes to be an educator now that they are trying to do that in their living rooms and around the kitchen table. But I hadn't thought of my profession of being something that was actually about helping. That's what it is. What we do as fundraisers are facilitators in effect. I like to refer to myself as a facilitator of philanthropy. What we do is on behalf of worthy causes. In effect, what we want to do is come alongside, almost put our arm around someone's shoulder, and say, “Look, there is an opportunity that makes sense to you as I have gotten to know you, and through which you can demonstrate great impact on this world. Here is the idea. Would you consider it?” That kind of work is very powerful and honorable work. I have had the privilege, as many of your audience have had, of interacting with some people of extraordinary success, Fortune 25 executives. I have had some of those people say to me, “Martin, I could never do that job. That is too hard a job.” Some of them knew it first-hand because they were chairmen of nonprofits or board members. They were called upon to go out and do it. They knew first-hand what I was doing full-time. They respected it. We underestimate the value, the contribution we are making in this work. Hugh: Wow. That's a paradigm shift. Somewhere, and it may be in this chapter, “Five Generous Fundraisers,” before we talk more about donors, let's consider you as the fundraiser. Somewhere, you talk about the impact it has on donors to actually donate. There is a point of philanthropy that releases something in you to make that donation, to see something happen. Talk about that. That is an inspiration that we don't think about, the impact that it has on the donor. Martin: First of all, it's all about the donor. What we tend to do is focus on ourselves. In one sense, we should because we want to be professional and effective and do the job with excellence. We also want to represent our organizations with integrity, as effectively as we can. It's all about the donor. What we're into is a business of building lifelong relationships, not just after a transaction. We want to build and support the relationship that the donor has with the organization for their lifetime hopefully. In that relationship-building process, there are opportunities for financial exchange. What this is about is not a transaction although writing a check or giving away stock or a document with a commitment is part of it. But what it's really about is helping people to influence the world for the better, and to demonstrate their values and what matters most to them. In that process of a donor taking their eyes off of themselves and looking outward, looking at, “Okay, I have been fortunate enough to have accrued these assets,” rather than being preoccupied with how I could take care of myself, I am going to give it to others or to the world to improve it. As they do that, they become greater people. Biochemically, by the way, we change. Enzymes are released. One person called it the family bonding enzyme. I used to notice that somebody would make a big gift to one of my organizations and suddenly they would be everywhere. They would be at every event, bringing friends and colleagues, talking about the organization with great enthusiasm. What's this all about? By their making a serious commitment, a gift of greater significance, there was something that happened within their entire being. A wise man, as you know, once said, “It's better to give than to receive.” There is something we receive as an internal, spiritual, reward by giving of ourselves generously. One of the ways we give ourselves generously, certainly in this contemporary age, is with financial resources in addition to our time and talents. Hugh: That's so good. The other thing I earmarked is you wrote this chapter about the donor development cycle. There is a transaction, and there are those who never ask for the sale. I have been there many times. One higher net worth person asked me, “You didn't ask for the sale.” It was my first conversation to get acquainted. But he was a businessman, “What do you want?” Another one, I am packing up to leave after I told him about what I was doing. He said, “Don't you want a check?” Then he wrote me a check and handed one to me a lot bigger than I thought. That was about relationships. But this cycle, you go through steps, identification, qualification, and more. Talk about the process. There is a transaction, but there is a lot more to this process. Martin: The bottom line is this is about a relationship. In the course of a relationship, you go through seasons. In this particular cycle that we use in our fundraising business, you identify. Then qualify, which means are these people of capacity? Are these people who have an interest or potential interest in what we represent? Then we cultivate, which is about building a relationship and involving them in the organization. That can include charitable giving, but not a gift of greater significance. As we get to know them, we are able to think about, Okay, given what they are interested in, how does that align with what we are about as an organization? What dimensions of our organization would be something that would make sense to them, that they would desire to support? Then we have the conversation about asking. Some people are proponents of never asking for money. They just listen their way to a gift. I have always believed to have conversations about money, about scale, about impact, about size. That might be, with this amount, you can do this and that. Provide some options. But I always want to be working with numbers. People want to know what we would like them to do. My experience has been perhaps more often the opposite of yours. If I don't ask, I get something smaller than what I had hoped for. I have always been one to say, “Let's talk about money.” It's a part of life. It's how we carry on in this world. Most people want to get to the bottom line, “How much do you want?” They can say yes, no, maybe so. They want to make that happen, but they can't make that happen now, or they will have to think more creatively about it. They can't write a check. I have always taught our people the 80/20 rule. Listen 80% of the time. COVID-19 has brought us to a hard stop here in some respects, but when you think about the frenetic pace of life that has only gotten faster and faster during our adult years, it has reached the point of sheer lunacy. Was anyone listening to anybody? One of the reasons we are such a divided nation is we completely lost the ability to listen, and listen with respect. What I found in fundraising, and I think many professionals in other fields would say the same thing, if you want success in your life, in your business, in your endeavors, you listen. It wouldn't be that I would listen 100% of the time. But what I found is people desperately wanted to be heard. They wanted to be listened to attentively, appreciatively, and respectfully. Honestly, when I think about to what extent I was a great fundraiser in my career, it's because of the power of listening. I have to ask for money, too. But listening puts us in that best position to understand. What I would do is retain, record, and retrieve. Three R's. Retain. Somebody had something to say during the course of the conversation. I was listening closely and thinking, That's important. Record. I would get in the car, call my assistant, and tell them, “Start taking notes.” Or I'd get back to the office and start typing at my computer. I would record all the various things I thought would be insightful and helpful, not just for me, but for anyone in my organization who would have reason to engage with those people. This is all about preparation. When I would prepare for my next visit, I would retrieve. The thing is in work like this, we are in front of different wonderful people each day. If a month has passed, there is no guarantee I would remember what someone said was important to them a month ago. One way I would respect them is I would retain, record, and retrieve, so that when I would return to them, I could say, “Hugh, so how's Mary Alice doing? You were talking about her facing that surgery.” Or, “Hugh, how's that billy goat dog of yours doing? You were worried about this.” Or, “Hugh, you said you were going to be marrying off your son Charlie. How'd it go?” People know I am representing the organization, but they love the fact that I listened to them as people. I cared about them as people. Do you think when it came to talking about a gift eventually, that put me in a better position to be taken seriously? Without question. It seems like, Geez, this is common sense, isn't it? We have lost a lot of common sense. Hugh: The problem with common sense is it's not very common. *Sponsored by EZCard* Let's pivot. You talked about some brilliant reframing of some old scripts we tell ourselves that minimize ourselves. I am guilty as anybody else, maybe more. That's not my job. I teach leadership. We have been in an era of lockdown. We are going back to work in Virginia. Churches are a sort of meeting with very limited engagement. No children. No singing. There is a new paradigm of how the exercise classes are in the parking lot with rain all week. People are getting paychecks from unemployment. What if that money runs out? Then what? We are facing some new challenges. How does that impact fundraising going forward? Martin: If you look back to the great recession, some sectors did better than other sectors in terms of fundraising. In the great recession, I had just come to the University of Missouri to take a campaign that was already underway public. I was there a month, and the economic sky fell. The world was thrown in the craziness. It doesn't exactly line up with our situation today, but there are some similarities certainly. Long story short, we decided to go ahead with our campaign. In my first year there, we raised 54% more than any other year in the history of that institution. When I hear someone say, “Boy, we can't ask for money now. People don't have it,” I immediately say, “That's not necessarily true.” One thing I would say is this: If somebody is philanthropic, and they have less money, are they less philanthropic? I don't think so. Philanthropy is a part of a value system. Let me ask you this about the organization you represent. Has its value proposition changed because of this pandemic? No, it hasn't. Now, if you are a food bank, there might be more urgency, immediacy. Crises bring out people's desire to try to do something for others, whether it's by cutting a check or by cheering on the streets for the first responders and nurses. People want to be supportive. One way they are supportive is certainly with their philanthropic support. Hugh: Love it. Would you like to have some questions from our audience? Martin: As long as they're all soft balls. Hugh: No guarantees. There's Jeffrey Fulgham from Richmond, Virginia. He is a CFRE and has done many good things. Used to be in Lynchburg, but moved just a couple hours away. Do you have a particular observation or question for our guest today? Jeffrey Fulgham: I don't really have a question, but I love what I'm hearing, Martin. The first thing when I came on (I missed the very beginning) is the part you were talking about studying, and that's only part of the equation. You can glean all this information, but if you started moving through your presentation, you were talking about relationships, which has always been the meat of this business. It's never more important than it is right now of letting folks know we care about them, and you hit that nail right on the head. That's what I have been preaching to my clients and associates: how important it is to stay connected to people and let them know that this relationship is a personal relationship before a financial relationship. I really liked what you said about character because I think that's the core of what we're doing. It's the core of leadership. If you don't have the character, you probably shouldn't be a fundraiser or in leadership either. The other thing that you mentioned about evaluating, that was so good. I didn't start doing it early enough. I wish I had done it the way you did it. The last five years, I have taken the month of December, or January because we are so darn busy in December that we don't have the time. I did a post-mortem on the year and on my life. How could I be better? This is great stuff. I'm glad I connected today. Martin: Jeffrey, pleased to meet you, and thanks for your great comments. I'm glad I'm in the ballpark with mine. One of the things, in fact, I just did a podcast on this, writing a chapter on someone's book on morning rituals. Every morning, as part of my morning ritual, I have one page in my personal/professional planner (I call it that), and I review what matters most about my life. That is a way for me to get locked and loaded for the day, in order to go forth and have the greatest impact possible, as a professional, but as a person. What am I all about as a person? Being able to define that, have it clarified, reviewing it every day has been amazingly powerful. One other thing I would say around the word “authenticity” is people want to be authentic, and they want authentic people in front of them. We don't have to be perfect in our work, but we want to be respectful, thoughtful, and do it the best way we can. Fundraisers come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities, and they understand that. But they don't want a fake, a snake salesman. They want a human being that they can respect and look up to. That's what they want from us. Jeffrey: I definitely agree with that. That authenticity and character and genuineness, people would ask me about having these relationships with people. I said, “You have to be in a genuine relationship. You can't have a relationship where you want someone to think that it's about the fact that you like them and want to be in a relationship, but it's really about the money, so you are clocking it so that it looks genuine. It might work for a little while, but it won't work for you forever. If you really want to have successful fundraising, it's about long-term relationships with people.” I'm fortunate that I am connected to people who I am three or four organizations removed from now. I still have relationships with them, and I still talk to them, especially right now with everything going on. Staying in touch. That's the fun part of this business. It's the most fun. Martin: The relationships is the most gratifying part of the deal. It's not about the dollars raised although that's great, too, because it can accomplish great things. In our business, we get to meet the most wonderful people. Phenomenal people. When I think about my own personal and professional development, a lot of it was profoundly stimulated by the people I have gotten to spend time with in this work of fundraising. Hugh: And I have gotten to spend time with Jeffrey and Bob Hopkins. Bob, you've been quietly listening. Do you have a question or comment for our guest today? Bob Hopkins: I'm in my backyard outside. Didn't know I had any airwaves back here. Beautiful day in Dallas by the way. I am loving listening to you. After 40 years of doing this kind of thing, you think you know it all. While I might say I do, it's so much fun to remember some of the key aspects of the fundraising process. When you first started talking, I thought, Why doesn't he talk about listening? Sure enough, 15 minutes later, you talked about listening. I am so grateful for that conversation. I teach speech, and I'm teaching people how to talk. But there is a chapter in my book called “Listening.” I spend about five minutes on listening because I don't think people need to know anything about it, and I am so wrong. As you said, the 80/20 thing is so true. I have so many great stories of when I didn't listen, and you know what? I didn't get the gift. Or when I listened and waited and patiently took my time about receiving, that I got about six times more money than I would have gotten had I asked earlier when the person wasn't ready. Martin: It's such a great comment. Pleased to meet you. We talk about this in a lot of fields, the blending of art and science. As I said, developing competency is about education and experience. Maybe that's the better way. This is a work you learn on the job; it's on the job training. As we stick with it, it saddens me when I think about the turnover in the profession. If something is willing to stick with it and keep at it, as you all know, the satisfaction is phenomenal to be in this work. To become competent at it over time is immensely gratifying. Beautiful horse by the way, Bob. Hugh: That's not his current one. He has one he is really proud of. That's his passion. One day, I was having lunch with him in Dallas, and he went off on this horse thing when I asked him about his passion. The principle is 80/20. 80% of your results are produced by 20% of your people. 80% of your inventory only produces 20% of your profits, but 20% produces 80% of your profits. It goes with donors; it's a repeated principle. When I wrote my first book, Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it's about church musicians and transformational leaders. That is when I moved into leadership. It took me 40 years to write this and 30 days to put it on paper when I was leaving the profession. I determined in that book the Ballou 10/90 principle. As a music director, 10% of my job was music; 90% made that possible. I am thinking as far as a professional fundraiser, the 10% is what people see, but 90% is under the iceberg. 90% is relationship, staying in touch, that allows that 10% to happen. There is a lot that happens that is invisible to most people, but that is where the hard lifting is. Let's hit real hard on this. We still have money in the economy. The fed printed more digital currency. Money didn't go away. Some people are struggling to make ends meet, but some companies are doing really well. Google had a record-breaking quarter. Grocery stores are slammed. There are some ministries that are challenged. Some restaurants are out of business. There is still money out there and people who want to make a difference. What is the change of mindset for addressing the new normal here? Martin: In some ways, the mindset hasn't changed. In other words, we have an organization worthy of support that is doing important work in this world. We are engaging with people who want to make a difference with their lives and resources to the extent that they can. They may have taken a hit financially, so they may not be able to do something right now. They may have to structure it differently. Back in the great recession, we mentioned we raised 54% more than any other prior year in the institution's history, that wasn't people writing a bunch of huge checks. People were writing smaller checks, making pledges over longer periods of time, putting gifts in their estates, and so on. Bundle it all together, and it would be a number that was not insignificant for them, but they couldn't do it. Even today, a year ago, someone might give you a large number with checks over a couple of years. Now, they still want to give you that number, but it will be put together in a different kind of package. What we need to do is be sensitive to people. We are all talking the same talk here. We have to put the concern for the people first. There are relationships. If we treat them that way, whether they can make a gift now or later, we are building the relationship for the long term. We are doing our job with the relationship by putting them and their concerns first. We all have stories and connections, a degree or two away from us, of people who have been profoundly impacted by this. We should know it firsthand, and be sensitive as we engage with others. To raise major gifts, it's typically a face-to-face, labor-intensive business. Up until very recently, there hasn't been any face-to-face work. Difficult to have a talk with a donor ten feet apart. Tools like Zoom, even my sister who just turned 80 years old knows how to use Zoom. We can all use Zoom. People welcome Zoom calls or the equivalent. They desire that human interaction. If we get on a call like this, we just have a conversation, and we listen to them, that's powerful. Hugh: whoever thought of this term “social distancing,” it's physical distancing. We are still social. Anti-social distancing. This book is chock-full of stuff that is not rocket science. It's a solid experience when people have been there and done it. Stuff that most of us don't know. You have been around and done this for years; you've practiced this. I'm a musician. We rehearse. You have rehearsed a lot. What I am so appreciative of is you put it in a book to share with people. Why should people have this book? Where can they get it? Martin: Why they should get it is it's a way of staying current in the work. If you are a beginner, it's an insightful introduction to the work. It's getting 27 seasoned professionals' input, not just one's. I call it Five Minutes for Fundraisingbecause each chapter is about a five-minute read. They are stand-alone chapters. You don't have to read it in consecutively. You can go to what resonates or what you need right now. In terms of the book, if you want an autographed one, 15% off, no shipping and handling, go to MartinLeifeld.com and order it there. You can get it on Amazon as well. Like any book, it's available on multiple channels. Hugh: It's not an expensive book. *Sponsored by EZCard* *Message about a Youth Philanthropy Conference on 6/27* This has been a very helpful interview. Lots of good sound bites. What do you want to leave people with today? What is a challenge or thought as we go into the unknown? Martin: Every day we are going into the unknown. That was six months ago, too. It's new every morning, as it says in the Book of Lamentations, for those of you who look at the Bible. What we're after is helping people become greater through philanthropy. We're doing that through putting them first, respecting who they are, helping them to demonstrate their value system to the world. Hopefully, by working with our organization as part of their way of doing so. We are privileged. It's honorable work. It's worth people devoting their lives to. Not to highlight myself, but this is powerful. When I retired two years ago, they had a party for me, which was very nice. A number of the donors were there who I had worked with for years. Unbeknownst to me, they had a video. If you go to YouTube, it's there. This couple who were the first alumni in this young university to reach a $5 million-level gift of cumulative giving was on the video. This is what they said, and I think it pulls it together and certainly represents so much my gratitude for the work of philanthropy in my life. They said, “By teaching us about giving, Martin, you have given us a great gift. Our philanthropic involvement with the university has enhanced our lives on many levels. We owe that to you. Martin, because of your professionalism, expertise, and friendship, you made something that is truly enjoyable even more rewarding. You showed us the way to contribute in a meaningful manner, and this resulted in our receiving so much in return.” Hugh: What a great summary. Martin: Isn't that amazing? That's what it's about. Hugh: It is amazing. You have touched people's lives on both ends of the spectrum. Martin, thank you for sharing your wisdom and time with us today. Martin: Thank you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Don't Stop Networking, Just Do It Differently Interview with Dr. Ivan Misner Dr. Ivan Misner is the Founder & Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world's largest business networking organization.  Founded in 1985 the organization now has over 9,400 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world.  Last year alone, BNI generated almost 12.3 million referrals resulting in $16.7 billion dollars worth of business for its members. Dr. Misner's Ph.D. is from the University of Southern California.  He is a New York Times Bestselling author who has written 24 books including one of his latest books – Who's in Your Room? He is also a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been a university professor as well as a member of the Board of Trustees for the University of La Verne. Called the “Father of Modern Networking” by CNN and one of the “Top Networking Experts” by Forbes, Dr. Misner is considered to be one of the world's leading experts on business networking and has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world.  He has been featured in the L.A. Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York. Times, as well as numerous TV and radio shows including CNN, the BBC and The Today Show on NBC. Among his many awards, he has been named “Humanitarian of the Year” by the Red Cross and was recently the recipient of the John C. Maxwell Leadership Award.  He is also proud to be the Co-Founder of the BNI Charitable Foundation.  He and his wife, Elisabeth, are now “empty nesters” with three adult children. Oh, and in his spare time, he is also an amateur magician and a black belt in karate. More information at: www.bni.com www.ivanmisner.com   Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings everyone. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome back to a new episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, where we talk to leaders and get their secrets to success, what they found that's worked, what didn't work, what's their wisdom. Each week is a different person from a different place with a different experience, but they have a passion for excellence. Today's guest is the founder of a really neat networking group called BNI. I will let him tell you a little bit about BNI. I have been a member over the years, and I have done networking as a nonprofit leader, as a church professional, and as a business professional. I find out that networking is as misunderstood as leadership is. There are a whole lot more varieties of what people call networking, but Ivan Misner stands alone as a person who has developed a whole new system for networking. Ivan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange today. Ivan Misner: Hugh, thank you very much for having me here. You're right. I am the founder of BNI. We have now 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries around the world. But what you may not know about me is I have spent some time in the nonprofit world. My second management job was as an assistant to the president of a nonprofit transportation business in Los Angeles called Commuter Transportation Services, Inc., which was rideshare before there was Uber. It was computers bigger than this room to set up rideshares. It was funded mostly by the government and private corporations. I worked there for a while. I have been on the boards of nonprofit organizations for more than 30 years. Lot of experience in the nonprofit world. Hugh: You know some of the challenges that nonprofits are facing. Today, even more challenges. I like to say that, in the words of my co-publisher of our magazine and friend Jeff Magee, we suck at networking. Suck is halfway to success. Ivan: I like it. Hugh: I stole that from him, but I give him attribution. We go into a crowded room and say, “Hey, it looks like the stock market. We are trying to bid higher than the next person.” But I found my experience in BNI to be relationship-building and also the people I met there, I still know. I'm not active in that anymore. Life has taken me different places. I moved; I didn't get out purposefully. I found it is multi-dimensional. Let's go back. When did you found BNI, and why? Ivan: I started BNI in January of 1985. I was a management consultant. I helped companies with hiring, training, and evaluating employees. I got most of my business through referrals. I was looking for referrals. I went to a lot of networking groups, and the groups I went to were just playing mercenary. I'd go to these meetings, and I felt like I'd been slimed, and I needed to go home and get a shower. Everyone was trying to sell to me. Everyone was trying to sell. I didn't like that. I went to these other groups that were totally social; it was happy hour and hors d'oeuvres. Nobody was doing business. I didn't like either of those groups. I wanted the business, but I didn't want it to be mercenary. I wanted the social, but I wanted it to be relational. What I did was merge this concept of business and relational, and the glue that would hold it together is our principal core value of Givers Gain. This idea of that if I help you, you'll help me, and we'll all do better. Hugh, I'd like to tell you that I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I wanted to help my friends. One thing led to another, and it turned into two, to 10, to 20 groups. By the time it hit 20 groups, I realized, and it happened in less than a year, that I had struck a chord in the business community. We don't teach this in colleges and universities, even in business. I get it. You're a nonprofit. You feel like you aren't prepared. But business isn't prepared either. We don't teach this in school. That's when it hit me that we needed to teach this and provide a platform for businesspeople. We now have 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries. Hugh: 9,500 groups. We have people from a couple countries here, Algeria and Texas. Ivan: Texas is its own country. Hugh: We are in the south. We think California is another country, but we are confused about Texas. Ivan: I grew up in California. It is another country. Hugh: It will fall off in the ocean someday. What my mission is is to help nonprofit leaders think out of their box to learn some really good business principles. Sometimes, in networking, we do the inverse. We don't want to ask anybody for anything. Or we come from a position of need. “Oh, I need this. Help us.” Tell me about the framing that nonprofit leaders, we have clergy, we have executive directors, we have board chairs, we have people in what we like to call the for-purpose, not for-profit, community. What is the mindset we need to have as we approach networking? Ivan: I think the first mindset, and it's something I teach everyone and I think applies in the nonprofit world just as much as in the for-profit, is the foundation of networking is something I call the VCP process: Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. You first have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you move from visibility to credibility. People know who you are, what you do, and that you're good at it. That takes a long time to go from visibility to credibility. But when you get to credibility, then you can move to profitability, where people know who you are, what you do, that you're good at it, and they are willing to refer people to you. They are willing to bring people to you, whether it be a for-profit enterprise or a nonprofit enterprise. They are willing to refer you, support you, help you. That takes time. Networking is much more about farming than it is about hunting. It's about cultivating relationships with other business professionals. I think this fits the nonprofit world well, but I don't think the nonprofit world knows that. They keep thinking they're different. The VCP process applies to both. Hugh: Absolutely. We have this brilliance we can offer. We feed people, we clothe people, we help people get jobs. We do all this philanthropic work. That is our mental capital. Over here, we want financial capital. There is a space in between where you do what you're talking about. It's relationship capital. Ivan: It's social capital, yeah. Hugh: We build that. It's relationship. It's trust. It's being social.  I don't care if you're an introvert or not, and it takes energy away from you. It's still important for the leader and the board. Tell us about your board experience. Did you help them think about networking? Ivan: Let's talk for a moment about, before you asked about the board, you were talking about- The gray hair, things are slipping my mind. Yeah, I have been on a number of boards. I am an emeritus member of the board of directors for the Leroy Haynes Children's Center in the Los Angeles area. I was on their board for almost 20 years. I have been on the board of trustees for the University of La Verne. I am presently sitting on the board of directors for the Austin Boys and Girls Club. I started my own foundation, so obviously I am on the board of my own foundation. I have had a lot of work in the nonprofit world for a long time. The nonprofit world does a lot of really good work. Hugh: Yeah, I was talking about trust and having a conversation. It's a process to go from what we got to offer to people writing a check. Ivan: Yeah. Thank you. When you have that, there are a number of things that one can- You talked about introvert and extrovert. That is the thing I wanted to touch on. A lot of people assume you have to be an extrovert to be good at networking. That's not true. What's really funny- This is absolutely a true story, and I wrote about this about eight years ago on my blog at IvanMisner.com. I have more than 1,000 posts, and I have been blogging there for more than 13 years. One day, I was talking to my wife. We weren't quite empty nesters; our kids were in high school. They were at practice. It's just my wife and me. It was great. This is what it was going to be like. I said something to her, “You know me, honey, I'm an extrovert.” She was like, “No, you're not.” I said, “What do you mean I'm not? Of course I'm an extrovert. I run the world's largest business networking organization. I can't be an introvert.” I have been married 32 years. I don't know if you're married or not, but this is so husband/wife relationship. She's like, “Okay, honey, that's what you think. That's fine. You can be an extrovert.” “No, it's not what I think. I am a keynote speaker. You can't be an introvert.” “Whatever you think.” “Why do you think I'm an introvert?” She had been reading this book and telling me the differences between them. Then she said something that hit me, “Extroverts love to go out to recharge their batteries. Introverts want to hide and get away from everybody.“ “Okay, that definitely sounds like me.” But I am not an introvert. So I walk into my office at home in California, and I got on the Internet and found a test to take. I was going to show her that I am not an introvert. So I take this test. True story. I take this test, and it comes back with “Congratulations, Ivan. You are an introvert who is a situational extrovert.” I looked further, and it said, “When you are talking about something that you are very knowledgeable about, when you are in your wheelhouse, when you are with close friends, you come across as an extrovert. Otherwise, you are an introvert. So go apologize to your wife.” It didn't say that last part, but I did. I said, “Hey, I can't believe this, but you're right. I am an introvert.” Even before I discovered that, I told people introverts can be great at networking. The reason why they can be is that they're much more likely to listen than to speak. A good networker is like a good host, an interviewer. Hugh, you're asking me questions and letting me answer. That's what a good networker is. A good networker asks questions and lets the person speak. Extroverts love talking. What is their favorite subject? Themselves. So people assume that an extrovert is a great networker. That's not true. They are a great networker if they have learned to slow down and be an interviewer. Ask questions just like you are. Hugh: Take a note. Don't use your personality type as an excuse. Ivan: That's exactly right. Hugh: Sometimes, Myers-Briggs and many of those instruments, I am way over on E. When I am in a group where I am not the subject matter expert, I can flip over, and I am quiet. I am a situational introvert. That is a good term. It really is about our processing and our energy. I gain energy. I am a conductor. I finish a two-hour rehearsal, and I am raring to go. I have adrenaline. Other people have to go to bed after a social event. You're so true. When an introvert speaks, they have thought it out, and then, boom, it comes out as a complete thought. Extroverts just blurt it out. It's in process. Our assumption is we are going to have a conversation. The important thing that rose in your conversation to my attention was that we are talking to potential donors. The scenario you just described, we are networking. We want to listen to them. What are they interested in? We want to go up to the ATM, put in a card, and get some cash. Guess what? They don't want to be an ATM. They want to find out what they're interested in. That is a form of networking, isn't it? Ivan: It is. And sometimes you find out it's not a good fit, but you want to find people who it's a good fit. Their values and vision on the impact that they want to make in their community is congruent, resonant with yours. Where you can find those levers that you can pull that are resonant with their goals in life, the things they want to make a difference in, then you have the right person. You have to find out. You have to learn about that individual before you can start trying to pull money out of them. Hugh: Yes. In the social benefit world of churches and nonprofits, we receive money because we provide value. Ivan: Yes. But isn't that the same in business? Hugh: It's all the same. People buy from us because we give them value. There is a trust level there. There is a monetary exchange. It's an exchange of energy, trust. There is lots of ways to think of it. Having conversations, you're so right. It's 10% talking. When I studied coaching, they said, “Coaching is 90% listening. Most of the other 10% is listening.” I have had clients who solved great problems that they have given me credit for when I was a listener. Ivan: And asking questions as a coach. Hugh: Yes. Absolutely. Listening actively. We might already be nervous when approaching a donor or in front of a group or a new network of people. What is your advice to nonprofit leaders? We do have a mix of people on here. Some people have a nonprofit and a business. Some people have a church or synagogue and a business. Some people have only one or the other. What is your advice for people as they are approaching, let's say, a new group opportunity to network with other professionals? We have some anxiety or apprehension or concern about that. What is your advice to get the right mindset as we go into an opportunity to meet new people? Ivan: The right mindset is about building relationships with people. It's not as you said about transaction. It's about the relationship. In one of my books, I wrote something you might find interesting. In a book I wrote called Truth of Delusion, where I ask questions, I say, “Is this statement true, or is it false? Is it a delusion?” One of the statements we made in the book, “You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even at a funeral.” Is that truth or delusion? Of course, the overwhelming majority say, “No, you cannot network at a funeral.” Here is our answer. The answer is it's a truth. But here is the key. This is important. If you hear that answer, you have to hear this first sentence after that answer. You must always honor the event. You don't go to a funeral passing out your business card. That's completely inappropriate. But if networking, as I believe it is, is about building relationships with people, then there is no place that is inappropriate to build a relationship. Let me give you an example. I was at a church function years ago, one of those potluck things in the afternoon. Everybody brings in meals. Lot of fellowship. People are talking. I saw a business guy who I wanted to get to know. He was very successful in the area. I struck up a conversation with him. One of the questions that I suggest people ask, after you say, “Tell me about your business. Who are you? What kind of clients are you looking for?” all the normal stuff. A question I like to ask, but you can't start with this, is, “What are some of the challenges you run into in this business?” He gave me an answer I'd never heard before. He said, “Business is awesome right now. My biggest challenge is I want to give back to the community. But sometimes my years are up, and some years are not up as much. I am having good years one after another, but some are incredible. I don't want to give away all that money. But I am not big enough to create my own foundation. I don't know how to deal with that.” I said, “Have you ever heard of a community foundation?” He said, “No. What are those?” I said, “There are a lot in Southern California. There is the world's largest called the California Community Foundation. You can create a fund under the community foundation under your own name. John Doe Foundation. It's part of the California Community Foundation. There are restrictions on the kinds of things you can do, but they are pretty reasonable.” Back then, it only took $10,000 to open a fund. It may be more now. He said, “Oh my goodness. I have never heard of one of those. Hang on. Here's my card. Would you mind? Do you know anybody there?” “Yeah, I know the VP of Development.” “Would you introduce me?” “I'd love to introduce you.” That's what networking is. You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even in church, if you honor the event. To me, honoring the event is about making connections with people. If you can help someone in some way, then that's what networking is. He was in a business that wasn't relevant to BNI. If I had wanted to call him, if I had called him next week and said, “Hey, it was great talking to you.” By the way, I introduced him to the VP, and he opened up an account like that. If I had called him a week later and asked him to get together to learn more about what he did, do you think he would have taken my call and met with me? Yeah. Why? Because I made the beginning of a relationship. We stayed connected through church. We never did business together. That's what networking is. It's about helping people. It comes back around to you. Hugh: That is a great story. Givers Gain. What is that? That summarizes BNI. How did you arrive at that? We tend to use too many words. It's brilliant in its simplicity. Ivan: It's predicated on a theory in social capital called the law of reciprocity. The law of reciprocity basically is what goes around comes around. If you put things out to the world, it will come back to you. To me, that phrase was the simplest way of explaining what could be a somewhat complex concept. The concept of giving is actually more complicated than it sounds because when you really get to it, people start asking, “When do you know that you're giving too much and not getting anything in return? How do you ask? Do you give, give, give and never ask?” There are subtleties and complexities to the concept of Givers Gain. The bottom line is you have to give to people before you expect them to give you anything. Giving might be a referral to someone else, not selling your business, but giving them ideas, connections. Hugh: Law of reciprocity. Thank you, Napoleon Hill. The problem with common sense is it's not very common. Ivan: It's not commonly applied. Hugh: No. I've been doing this kind of work in the church for 40 years as a music director. People thought I was smart, so I served a 12,000-member church, so they asked me to come do board development and leadership development with them. I developed my third career out of that. I really struggle with how things have changed so dramatically. The work has gotten more and more important over those last 32 years I have been doing this work. It's more important now than ever before in history. In this changed world, in this new normal, it's up to us as leaders to set the bar for the new culture and the new engagement. What are your thoughts about how things have changed, and how networking is important in this new time? Ivan: Listen, networking has always been important. What I have done is codify it and organize it and structure it and explain it in a way that I think is useful. But it's always been important. In terms of leadership, there are a couple of concepts that I was taught by- I did my doctoral work at USC under Dr. Warren Bennis, which was in his day the world's leading expert on leadership. That mantle has been handed over to John C. Maxwell, who is an amazing man. I have had the opportunity to meet him on a number of occasions. Truly holds the crown of the expert on leadership today. But one of the things I learned from Warren when I studied with him was something that I think applies today and will apply 100 years from now in leadership. Two concepts. One is contextual intelligence. The second is adaptive capacity. Contextual intelligence. This is something I don't hear talked about much in leadership other than Warren. You really need to understand the context of the challenge. The context and the players will determine elements of how you address a particular challenge. So you really have to understand the context of this particular problem because the same problem in a different place might not have the same context. It might not play out exactly the same. I will give you an example. The second thing is adaptive capacity. One must have the ability to adapt to the changing contextual intelligence that you are confronted with. We talked about these concepts, and I understood them. I saw it come out and play out in the real world at the university where I was on the board. Warren was speaking. He did an event. I invited him to speak at an event at the University of La Verne. He spoke. It was right before the new president had taken office. He sat there in front of a big audience and said, “What do you guys think of the new president? She's amazing, isn't she?” Everyone thought she was fantastic. She hadn't started yet, but she had been on the campus off and on for more than a month. He said, “Is she prepared, or what?” “Yeah, she's completely prepared.” He said, “From day one, everything will come into place.” “Yeah!” He leaned into the microphone and said, “You're all crazy.” We were shocked. He said, “She's prepared, yeah. But the minute she walks in, there are going to be changes to the environment that nobody predicted. And so her ability to adapt will be critical in the success in her role in this university.” Within 30-60 days after she came in, the university lost its preliminary or interim accreditation for the bar association's law school. Yeah. She had nothing to do with it. She'd been there for only a month, less than two. There was an interim accreditation, and there was one more step to get to fully accredited. Lost it. Completely lost it. She had one year to regain interim accreditation, or it would be lost permanently. Well, you know that requires incredible adaptive capacity. It also requires contextual intelligence. The law school was on a track. It was doing fine. She had to understand the whole board. She had to see the entire chessboard of the university and see where things were going and what she thought was going to be okay actually wasn't. Understanding that a lot of resources had to go to that. A lot of adapting had to take place. That was all part of the leadership process that I think is something that 100 years from now will still be just as important, no matter what the technology or situation. Understanding the context and being able to adapt are key elements of a successful leader. By the way, the university is fully accredited as a law school now. Hugh: Three Feet from Gold, Greg Reid writes about how we don't give up. You're right there. Edison said, “Most people give up just before they succeed.” You and I were talking a bit as we were launching the live feed. We haven't been on airplanes in a while. One person said we're finding out now which meetings could really be held by email instead of having to be there. I haven't been too sad about cancelling some of my trips. It's a whole new world of working from home. I miss the interaction and the chemistry of being present, but I am just as busy as when I was traveling, maybe more. How do we network from home? How do we work from home? We are in the business, and we need to have positive cash flow to do our work. How do we function at home, especially now? Ivan: First of all, I think that we will go back to meeting people in person. That's not going to completely disappear. The genie is out of the bottle a little bit. What I foresee is some kind of hybrid where you will see a lot more done online and a lot done in person. As you know, with BNI, we are talking about 9,500 in-person meetings every week. We had to turn on a dime. We flipped within weeks to 9,500 online meetings. We now run online meetings. When we are out of this great pause (I like to call it that), I think there will be still some groups who may want to continue to meet online. But I think we will end up with some kind of hybrid system. In the meantime, while we are working at home, there are a number of things that are important to know. First of all, I started BNI out of my house. I have worked from home for most of the last 37 years. When I had the consulting business, I remember going to the city to get a business license. This was in 1983. They were like, “Where's your office?” I said, “I work from home.” “Yeah, you can't get a business license.” 1983, you could not get a business license. “That's not a business.” “Yeah, I'm a consultant. I don't need an office space.” “You can't have a license.” I could not get a business license from the city because I was working from home. Things have changed a lot since then. A couple years later, by the way, you were able to get a business license. I started BNI in my home, and I have been working off and on for the last 37 years. Now my office is in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I work here in Austin, Texas. This is my home office I am talking to you from. There are a number of things I could recommend. I hate the phrase “social distancing.” Hugh: Thank you. Ivan: I do. We need to be more social than ever. It's physical distancing. It's not social distancing. I believe we need to be more social than ever. You start with that. Then some of the things I talk about in working from home is you should have a dedicated workspace. I have a nice office. I didn't always have a separate office. Sometimes it was in the corner of the dining room or in a basement. I remember when I got kicked out of one bedroom because we were about to have a child, and I got kicked out of the second bedroom because we were going to have a second child, so I had to move out into an office. As we grew, then I had office space in my homes. I have worked from home most of the last 35 years. Have a dedicated workspace, even if it is a corner of the room. Were you going to say something? Hugh: No. I was just wondering how long it took you to figure out why you kept having children. Ivan: Yeah. I figured that out. It was planned. My wife was the most amazing woman to deal with the pregnancy. She loved being pregnant. It was quite an experience with her. Here's another one. Don't get distracted by bright, shiny objects. I keep this here by my desk because I am always talking to entrepreneurs, and they are always chasing bright, shiny objects. You want to be successful at whatever you're doing, whether it's for nonprofit or for-profit? Here's an important key. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. It doesn't have to be six. It could be five or seven. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. What I see businesspeople do is they constantly chase new things rather than really have a program and work it and work it and work it and work it until it becomes successful. If I have any superpower at all as a businessperson, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I am very persistent. I am good doing six things a thousand times. I think people who do that are much more likely to be successful. Here are a couple of other suggestions. No social media. Now, if it's business, if it's for your nonprofit organization, that's fine. But no cat videos during the middle of the day. They are forbidden. Something happens to the space/time continuum when you get on Facebook, and you end up on some YouTube video an hour later. How did I get here? Stay off of social media unless it's related to your organization. Right now, more than ever, micro-dose the news. Micro-dose the news. I see people who are overdosing on the news. Don't do that. It's so easy to do from home. Don't do it. All you see is doom and gloom and the end of the world. Don't get frozen by fear. Let fear focus you, not put you in a state of fear. Get focused by fear. Don't get frozen by fear. Hugh: As a performer, I had to learn that. When you get on stage, you have all of these people staring at you. You turn around with a baton and 75 musicians and 200 singers. It's like, Ooh. They are all looking at me. I have to tell you, when Berny had me speak on stage, it's a whole lot easier than conducting. But people are staring at you, so you have to have a whole different mindset. There is believing in self that is important, no matter what we are doing here. We have our core values and our guiding principles of how we use those values. We have something worthy, but working, like Jim Rohn used to say, work on yourself harder than you work on your business. I can't tell you how perfectly aligned everything you have talked about today is with what we teach at SynerVision. I have come to call what we are doing now anti-social distancing. I don't know what brilliant person came up with the term, but it is physical distancing. We are more social than we have been before. Ivan: Yeah, I think so. Hugh: I have a blog on that. I am in central western Virginia in the Appalachians. It's lovely this time of year. Ivan is in Austin, Texas. He has given us lots of bites of wisdom today. You could be listening to this during the isolation we have, semi-quarantine, whatever we call this. Ivan: The great pause. Hugh: It's like a music, you have a GP, a grand pause. I teach my leadership principles. One of them is value the rests, which makes everything else work. There are rests in music for a purpose. It's not absence of sound; it's a clarity place. I am finding this is a great time for clarity. You have that shiny thing. What is it? It's a jewel. Ivan: I don't remember where I got it. As soon as I saw it, I knew I had to have it. Hugh: You're under my control. Watch this. Nonprofit leaders are social entrepreneurs. We all ought to be social entrepreneurs because we have the triple bottom line: people, planet, and profit. People ask me, “Do all you entrepreneurs suffer from insanity?” I say, “Heck no. We enjoy it.” There is this certain possibility mindset that we have. We have this vision. It's important, and the stuff you talk about leadership, I quote John Maxwell and Bennis in my writings and books and online courses. Working at home is the new normal, and the new normal going forward is going to be a hybrid. Many of our for-purpose social benefit communities have to be out there feeding people. I am in Lynchburg, Virginia. We have the highest per-capita poverty in Virginia, like 25%, with 28 agencies who feed people. It's important for them to network amongst themselves, which they are not really doing. There is a space for us to learn about networking that is critical. It comes from leadership. Nothing happens without leadership. I quote John Maxwell a lot. There is network, a verb and a noun. Bob has a question. Let me let Bob talk. Bob Hopkins from Dallas, Texas. Why don't you ask your question in person? Bob Hopkins: Okay. Hi, Ivan. Bob Hopkins here. By the way, that picture you see was 40 years ago. I am an old man like you. I have white hair. Ivan: I'm just glad I have hair. I don't care that it's white. I'm just glad I still have it. Bob: I have lots of it, too. Thank you. I am a college professor. I teach in Dallas. I taught at UTA for about 10 years, and now I am teaching junior colleges. I teach speech communications, and I teach networking. Ivan: Let me clarify my statement. It's usually not full-time professors on these webinars. Let me clarify my statement. I only know of one university in the United States that has a core curriculum university course on business networking. That is the University of Michigan, taught by Dr. Wayne Baker. That is the only university in the United States. Do teachers talk about networking during class? I think they teach mostly the wrong stuff, not necessarily the right stuff. There are no courses on networking to speak of in the world. Bob: I know that. Because I think networking is so important, I couldn't have done what I have done or be where I am without who I knew. Of course, I tell my students, it's not what you know, it's who you know. Ivan: Wait. Let me add to that. I don't think it's what you know or who you know. It's how well you know each other that counts because the question is, do I know that person well enough that I could pick up the phone and call them? Would they take my call? If I asked them for a favor, would they be willing to do the favor? It's not just knowing somebody; it's knowing them well. That's the key. I'm sorry. I keep interrupting you. I'll stop. Bob: The rest of the story is I have them write 250 people that they know down, whittle it down to 25 who are in their circle of influence that they can rely on, and that they do know, and they consider their mentors and counselors and parents and grandparents, etc. They have to write them a letter. The letter is, “I love you so much. I want us to continue this. I want to have your back and you have mine, so I want you to know you are in my circle of influence.” What you said is true. I like what you said about how well do I know these people? That is the important thing. My question is: Why not? Why are we not teaching this? Why is the academia? Is it because they have never been in business and don't know the importance of it? Ivan: That is my answer. Are you a full-time professor or adjunct? Bob: I'm adjunct. Ivan: So you know. I was an adjunct professor for 16 years. You know that it's the full-time tenured professors who control the curriculum. Even the president of the university does not control it. When you are talking about business professors, it's the full-time tenured professors who determine the classes. I really get hate mail when I say this. Most full-time tenured professors in business have never run a business. Bob: I know. Ivan: That's why. You can get a Bachelor's in marketing and not know how to sell. We don't teach sales techniques. Most business professors, it's like heaven forbid I should get my hands dirty and make a sale. They love social media. They will teach social media. They love advertising because you don't have to get your hands dirty and sell. They don't teach sales, closing sales, business networking. It's because it's taught mostly by full-time tenured professors. Wayne Baker is the only exception I have ever seen in the last 30 years in Michigan. Bob: The reason I am here is because Hugh and I have connected because I ran nonprofit organizations for 35 years before I started teaching college. I have only been teaching for about 10 years. The nonprofit sector is something I also teach. I have a book called Philanthropy Misunderstood. I teach my students philanthropy. I was called by my dean at one of these universities who said to me, “Bob, nonprofits are not businesses. Why are you teaching nonprofits in your classroom?” Hugh: Oh my. Ivan, I don't know if you can see my screen. But this is Bob's book. It's a brilliant book. There are world-changing, life-changing nonprofits. He has had a long career. Ivan: Bob, I agree with you. I think the lessons learned in business and in nonprofits are oftentimes, at the very least, overlapping, if not the same. Bob: I was excited to know who you are and that you are the one who founded networking. Thank you. Ivan: Well, I founded BNI. Networking has been around for a long time. I organized it. Hugh: Bob, thank you for coming in. Let me prevail upon your secrecy there. Tell him the name of your horse before you leave. Bob: That horse there is not the one that I have now, but the one I have now is named Philanthropy. Ivan: I like it. Hugh: He's all in. Ivan: Bob, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Bob: I'm in Dallas. Once this settles down and the traffic isn't too bad, I will drive to Austin to meet you. Ivan: All right. You got it. Be well. Hugh: Bob is a peach of a guy. I went to Dallas. My wife is a clergy graduate of Perkins School of Theology. The week before the airlines quit taking us places. I had a guest who founded Barefoot Winery. They said, “You have to meet Bob,” and we have connected and have been doing amazing stuff since then. Ivan: That's networking. Hugh: Yes. They accidentally founded a winery. They were marketing people. Great story. I have had some wonderful people in six years on this show. You're giving us really useful, helpful nuggets. This is so good. To find out about BNI, go to BNI.com. And IvanMisner.com. Ivan: IvanMisner.com. I have 13 years of content up there. It's all free. Check it out. Hugh: Love it. Ivan is the man. He has been such an influencer over those many years. Let's talk about the difference between network as a verb and network as a noun. Ivan: How would you define it? Hugh: Having a network, those are people who you have done due diligence with. You know who they are. I spent 40 years in church ministry, music ministry. I never had lunch alone. I always met with somebody. I got the most useful information, and they got information because they asked me questions, “What do you do anyway? We see you an hour on Sunday. What do you do the rest of the week?” I realized the Ballou 10/90 rule. The 10% is what you see, and 90% is what you don't see that makes that 10% possible. Networking is an activity to connect and meet people and to share and to provide value for people. A network is the people who you know. What do you think? Ivan: That's a good definition. Both of them are really, if it's done right, are about relationship-building. It's about the relationships you create. Hugh: Absolutely. Leadership is based on relationship. Communication is founded in relationship. The flow of money is based on relationship. Ivan: Oftentimes. Hugh: Let's talk about something that is not money flow. Let's talk about boards. I am going off being the president of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra board. I was a guest conductor. They elected me when I wasn't looking to be president. I am going off, and they are doing this board nominating process. This is networking also. We don't know how to make the ask for money or for people. I love it when people ask, “Would you serve on this committee or this board? It's not a lot of work.” You know they're lying to you. How do we come forward? You've been on boards. It may be hard to get the right people on the board. How do we frame the conversation when we want to invite people to consider a board position? Ivan: The first thing you do is you go to them with someone who knows them really well. If that's you, that's great. Otherwise, I think the third party testimonial is incredibly powerful, and when you have somebody who says- Let's say Bob says to me, “Ivan, you really should be active in Hugh's organization. Hugh has done an amazing job. He has created this organization that has done this thing. That should resonate with you because you're interested-“ My emphasis in nonprofits tends to be children and education. I believe children represent about 20% of today's population, but they represent 100% of the future. It's about children and educating them. If he can make that linkage, then he has connected the two of us. Then we can have that dialogue about how I might be able to help you or you might be able to help me. The third-party endorsement process is the best way to get donors, board members, committee members. It's easier for me to say no to somebody I don't know, trust, or like, than it is to say no to someone I know, trust, or like. Hugh: Ah. Point well taken. That's sage advice. I can see why you've been very successful over the years. Starting a business, growing a business, and maintaining the viability of a business are three different things, aren't they? Ivan: Oh yeah. Very much so. An entrepreneur needs to figure out pretty quickly, or even in a nonprofit, when you're in that nonprofit in whatever role, if you want to be happy with what you do, it's very important that you work in your flame and not in your wax. Let me explain that. When you're working in your flame, you're excited, you're on fire, people can hear it in the way you speak, they can see it in the way you act. When you're working in your wax, it takes all your energy away, people can hear it in your voice, and they can see it in the way you act. Over time, the things that are your flame- Let me speak for myself. The things that were my flame when I started BNI are no longer my flame. Many of those things, I don't want to do them anymore. It's very important to learn the skillset of how to delegate effectively, how to select the right people, delegate effectively, put them in charge of that area so that you can continue to work in your flame and not in your wax. 90% of my time is in my flame. This is the fourth interview I've done today. I'm sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI now. I am the spokesman for networking. Hugh: Love it. Tell us about your nonprofit that you founded. Ivan: I started the Misner Family Foundation and the BNI Foundation. Two different foundations we have created. Both focus on children and education. Misner Family Foundation is a private foundation for my family, supporting children and education. The BNI Foundation primarily supports children and education, and it's the charitable arm of what BNI does. We do both activities to help kids locally as well as funding grants and things like that locally. BNIFoundation.org, you can find the website for it. Hugh: BNIFoundation.org. Think about a closing thought or a tip or challenge you'd like to give people who are listening to this. It could be years from now. We have been doing these interviews for six years, Ivan. We've had some incredible people. *Sponsor message from EZCard* Ivan Misner, I don't know why you said yes to come on to my show today, but I'm glad you did. I wrote to you on LinkedIn, we had a short exchange, and you agreed. What thought or challenge or tip do you want to leave people with today? Ivan: We are living through challenging times. I don't know what our future holds, but I do know we can influence it. I do know we can make a difference in it. I also know that your mindset is so incredibly important. I think hope is much more powerful than fear. Fear paralyzes us. It freezes us. When we are afraid of what the future will hold or what will happen, we just freeze. What we need to do right now more than ever is focus, not freeze. That focus can come with hope. The only other thing you need to add to it is action. You have hope, and you take action. When you do those things, you can come out of times like this, and you can make it through times like this. Be creative. Be innovative. Think about what you can do. My nonprofit, the Austin Boys & Girls Club, that I am on the board of, they created something called Club on the Go, where you can come by and pick up food that they package so there is still that social distancing. Be creative. Have hope. And influence your future. That is my closing thought. Hugh: Ivan Misner, you are a gift to all of us. Thank you for being on The Nonprofit Exchange today.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hugh Ballou, The Transformational Leadership Strategist® is Pastor Kathleen's guest, to talk about the new leadership skills congregational leaders and clergy need for this new time.

Hugh Ballou, The Transformational Leadership Strategist® is Pastor Kathleen's guest, to talk about the new leadership skills congregational leaders and clergy need for this new time.

How Speakers And Experts Can Write And Publish A Book For Social Impact Interview with Jeremy Jones Jeremy C. Jones, a proud military veteran, is also a family man and entrepreneur who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. His accomplishments include being a four-time #1 Best-Selling Author on Amazon, hosting the popular podcast “Ideas & Impact,” and founding and serving as CEO at Jones Media Publishing.     Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it's Hugh Ballou. Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. This little interview will be packed with some ideas we hope will be useful to you. Today, we have Jeremy Jones, who comes to us from north Scottsdale, Arizona. Jeremy, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell folks a little bit about you, why you're doing this, and your passion. Jeremy Jones: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction. I appreciate it. A little bit about my background. I grew up in southern California and went into the military at the age of 18. I was stationed on an aircraft carrier for four years. Just to give your audience a reference of time, when I was getting ready to get out of the military was during the September 11 attack, 2001. I was a part of Operation Enduring Freedom. I was in the military during that time and shortly got out after, which was March of 2002. I moved here to Arizona, where I have been living and working of about 17 years now. Over time, I got my Bachelor of Arts degree. I started working of a company, working for myself. At the point where I had transitioned to fully working for myself, I was looking to get an edge on not only just the competition, but to set myself apart because I felt like I was really good at what I did. I authored a book and saw how it helped open up doors for me to get speaking engagements. I helped one of our clients be able to publish a book as well. That is where I developed a specialty of what we do with book publishing. Right now, I currently have that program. It's all we do. It's my primary business. Jones Media Publishing is the top rated book publisher for coaches, consultants, speakers, and experts to help them publish a book that can be used as a tool to get speaking engagements and new clients. I am so passionate about this because a book can be a tool to help an expert share their message that is impactful, share the story of the charity, nonprofit, or organization, to share the reason why they do what they do and the principles behind it, to help them reach an audience that are outside of their sphere of influence. Hugh: That's really great. I published my first book in 2007. It's called Moving Spirits, Building Lives. It's a church musician as a transformational leader. It's how I pivoted from being a conductor into organizational leadership. The conductor takes a bunch of singers and transforms them into a choir, transforms the choir into an ensemble, transforms people's lives. In church work, in the orchestra, it's the same kind of thing. I teach people how to build high-performing teams. I self-published and went to a church music conference. Nobody knew me. I had a bunch of books. There were 600 people there, and I sold 100 books. All of a sudden, people were quoting me, and I was a celebrity because I was an authority on a topic. Now, it took me 40 years to write the book, 30 days to put it on paper. So I sent myself a daily regimen and outlined it and wrote it. Miscellaneous chapters. I wrote the ones that flowed easily. The fist chapter I wrote was “Managing Time.” I wrote about it, so I have to do it. I can tell you that was a business card. The book was an open-door business card. People are really impressed that you have a book. I have had several other people quote my books in other books on the topic. That was my basic premise on transformational leadership. I have done other books and courses. It was really me putting on paper. The process was clarifying for me. What do you find is most helpful? We're talking to clergy and nonprofit leaders and their teams. I do experience they have lots of stories to tell, but they don't know how to get them out there. We think we published a book and it's a bestseller, so we're going to be filthy rich. That's not exactly the purpose, is it? Jeremy: No, not necessarily. So we always start with the foundation. A lot of times, when someone is referred to us, they come to us for three primary reasons. One is for contribution. They have a message that is important to them; they want to get it out to as many people as possible. The second reason is to have it be a tool to get clients for their business or speaking engagements, which furthers the message about what they do. The third reason is for credibility and authority. The book serves as a purpose to position you as an authority, a specialized expert at what you do. Whenever someone comes to us and says, “I have a book, but I feel like I'm stuck,” which is common, we start with the main purpose of the book. What is the purpose of the book for you? The whole structure and the outline of the book can be determined to serve that purpose if we know the reason why the author is writing the book, and who they are writing it for. You'd be surprised how many people don't think through that process. That's what we're very good at. That's what we work with each of our authors on. We develop a profile of who the book is for, what we need to cover within the book. We help them structure and outline their book properly. I will give you an example here based on your question. We had one author who wanted to be a public speaker. Inside of her book, she didn't mention anything about her having the ability to speak, or that she has even spoken. And she had spoken. What I recommended to her, because she was pretty far along, is within the book, rather than telling a bunch of random stories, she told a very specific story how she went to go speak somewhere, what she said impacted the people in the audience, and what happened as a result. A real quick story. Doesn't need to be very long. Only needs to be a couple of paragraphs. Because she told that story, it illustrated the point that she is a professional speaker. It demonstrates that she speaks, and people get a positive response by her speaking. Guess what a meeting organizer wants when they want you to speak? A good response from the audience, and for the audience to do something with what they learned. They want their speaker to perform to their audience and bring value to their audience. There are certain things we can do with the outline based on the purpose. You asked your question about stories. Depending on the purpose, depending on the structure and outline also depends how much of those stories or what stories even to make sense to include. Hugh: Before people melt down and say that's too much work, let me unpack a couple things. I found it very empowering laying it out in writing. I had cleared a month to write my first book. Those other books were written piecemeal through blog posts or other things I had put together. You have to be careful if you do it randomly so it has continuity. Having a good editor. The thing that occurs to me is a lot of churches and nonprofits don't consider branding. What you're talking about is your branding. Who are you? Who is your audience? How do you show up with that audience? What is your brand image? I had a brander publish a book called Twist. Her publicist contacted me and wanted an interview on my business podcast. During the interview, I had her book out. We were talking about putting a twist on your brand. I asked her, “How did you find me?” She said, “Your brand really stood out: the conductor that teaches leadership. That sets you out above everybody else.” If you're having trouble in your charity raising money, getting volunteers, maybe your brand isn't clear. If people aren't coming to your church or synagogue, there may not be a clear brand image on what they can expect or who you're marketing to. What are they going to experience when they get there? Why should they come? Any of those things, do you help people sort that out? Or do they need to come in with a brand ready? Do you help them decide who they are and how they want to show up in the world? Jeremy: That's what we help each of our authors and clients with. It starts with the structure and outline of the book first. Determining what is included in all of the chapters. We do a lot of research on book titles. The title is an important component of the book because that is the first thing that potential readers or audience members at an event see. When they see you're the author of X book, that's a determining factor to represent who you are. If you have a book about purpose, like Purpose-Driven Life, you know that's what the author is representing and talking about in their book. If you have a book called Family History Secrets, they are all about the secrets of their family. The title of the book does represent the message and what the author is all about. All of those things need to be considered with the end in mind. That's why I reference quite a bit with our members, because we coach our members through the entire process, from a blank Word document to published book, is we always do what Stephen Covey said in his famous book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, is begin with the end in mind. We always look at the end in mind for the purpose and the title. Hugh: It sounds awfully hard. I did everything myself. I went and found a printer. Actually, I had pitched my first book. Instead of making a dollar, it cost me a dollar, and I made $13 selling the book. They said clergy wouldn't buy it, but most people had clergy. I put music notes on my cover. My name was big on the cover. I don't know if I would redo it. If I feel like I want to do that, I would redo another type of book. All of that stuff. I am looking back and thinking, I wish I'd had somebody like Jeremy Jones guide me through the process. It was difficult. I had somebody proof it who didn't do a good job. My first printing was full of typos. That is a credibility issue. Jeremy: It is. What we do is we have the entire process outlined in three phases. That's how we are basically a guide, guiding people through the process so it doesn't ever feel overwhelming. We have divided our unique publishing process into three primary phases. Phase one is what we call the create or foundation phase. That's everything related to who the book is for, the purpose of the book for you, getting the book structured and outlined properly in a simple and systematic way, getting the book written in a time-effective manner because we know most of our authors or members are not writing the book three hours a day. They have a certain window of time they can allot outside of their business or profession. We are sensitive to that. We realize it does take an amount of time, but we want it to be as efficient as possible for each of our members. We have some programs in order to do that to help keep the writing efficient, providing editing along the way to provide feedback and insight for the author. That's all phase one. Then it goes to our team of editors to edit it properly so that the author doesn't have to deal with any of what you just mentioned. Where we have had people come to us and say, “I tried to do this myself. It's full of typos. I need to get it done right.” Our model is that traditional publishing house level of quality, but each of our authors retains full rights to their book. Everything I just mentioned is in phase one. Phase two is everything related to what we call packaging it. Packaging it as a product. Professional book cover design. The layout for the paperback book. Amazon and Kindle ebook formatting. Those are the primary three book formats. The third phase is the book release. When we first start our authors and they are thinking about their release, what we do is help guide them. Let's do phase one first. Then we move to phase two, then phase three. That's what we do is help facilitate each of those steps along the way so there is never any guesswork. Hugh: That's important. My clients in launching and growing an organization, people don't know what to do next. They do things randomly, which is not productive. It sounds like what could be a complicated process, you have streamlined what to do next. Is there a lot of I think what holds up a lot of people is they say I have to carve out time to do all this writing. I'll do that next year. It's the I'm going to wait until the perfect time. I will do it when… the famous excuse. Why should people wait? Can they get started? Is there a different way to put words on paper? Can they dictate them and have someone transcribe them? Are there options? Jeremy: There definitely are options. When we are in the writing phase, if the author wants to dictate what they have written, we have a unique process around doing that. It all starts with making sure everything is organized properly. If we have a book structure in place, if we have the outline in place, when the author is dictating something, it's not random. What creates a high expense for editing, the editing process completely multiplies itself and becomes expensive, when the editor has to go in and restructure and rewrite the developmental edit of everything. What we recommend is to do it in bite-sized chunks. Chapter one is typically broken into about three or five subparts. If the author is going to speak their book and transcribe it, they only focus on chapter one, point one. Then chapter one, point two. Then chapter one, point three. They are only talking about this one thing for a short period of time. That can be transcribed and cleaned up because it's focused, and it doesn't need this entire reworking. That piece dramatically deceases the time. Another thing is the reason that most people take a lot of time to write their book is because they don't have everything structured from the beginning. What a lot of our authors do is prior to them working with us, is they get an idea and are excited about turning it into a book. They get committed to it. They are on fire about it. They see the impact. They grab their laptop and start pounding away at the keyboard, writing that story and this story. It's a bunch of stuff they are typing out. Then they get to the point where they go, “Wait a minute. Should I include this in chapter one or four? Maybe this should be later in the book and this should be earlier.” They find themselves for five hours taking this and moving it here, taking this and moving that there, and rewording it. That process is frustrating and time-consuming. Our unique process we have developed is to help the author develop a proper structure for a book based on industry publishing standards to get it all structured first and then fill in the gaps. The way I like to illustrate this is when you think about a sculptor that is sculpting a big heavy sculpture. If it's big and heavy, they don't take a giant glob of clay, plop it there, and start doing fine detail. That's what people do with writing a book. They don't write it immediately in fine detail. What a sculptor does is they develop a wire frame of the body of the sculpture, and then they build the mesh. The mesh represents the body of it. Then they put on the clay, which forms the fine detail. If you do the same process when writing a book, first you look at the structure, which makes up all the chapters. Then you look at the chapters, which makes up each of those components for a properly published book. But you get to the writing once that is developed. You are cutting your writing time by a fifth; you will have a fifth of the time it takes to write in my experience. Hugh: There is always this fear of the unknown. I've had people tell me that they have done a series of blog posts and written the book and build excitement as they launch the book. People have read the blog and still buy the book because it's all in one place instead of strung out into a series of articles. That sounds like a good way to lay it out and think through it and get some real-time response. Do you have a reading on that? Jeremy: Sure, we've had authors who have done that. We've had authors who have done that with writing. If your style is you're more comfortable with writing, that's a great way to do that. Get to the exercise of writing and putting out blog posts and getting feedback. That's a great way to start. We have had another author as well who does it through audio forums, the course of a podcast. We'll have a chapter he wants to talk about, stories he wants to share, through the course of the podcast verbally. He is talking through the content that he wants to include in the book. That is a great exercise as well to speak out the story. Then you relisten to yourself telling the story, and you can very easily type it out, have it transcribed and cleaned up. Sure. Doing that process is a great exercise because you can get some feedback from people. See the response, the engagement, who leaves a comment. That's a helpful way to do that. Hugh: One thing I notice is you talk about the title. The title makes me stop when I go in the bookstore. All these books. What first catches my attention is the title. Not only the words in the title, but how it's laid out. Then I pick up the book, and I look for an index and the contents. If it's just a bunch of boring copy, that's a downer for me. I respect books that are laid out with some highlights, some images. I had mine with some little breakout highlighted paragraphs with tips throughout. I look for specific things that say to me it will be an interesting journey when I read this book. The titling is wordsmithing, but the rest of it, the cover appearance, the appearance of the title, and the book, what are the factors that encourage people- I'm talking about a physical book now. What are some of the things that make the book attractive so a person would want to pick it up and buy it? Jeremy: That's a great question. The first thing is the book title. The primary title, and the subtitle. I always encourage authors to create a compelling subtitle. The primary title should basically encompass the main thing the book is about. The subtitle should give the readers some additional information to help clarify what the book is all about. That's the first thing. The image of the book should be simple. Some of the best-selling books are simply all typography. Typography means it's all text. The title of the book should be clear and easy to read. In most cases, no script. Real scripted fonts are a bad idea because of readability. You want it at first glance to be easily read. Then the cover has pleasing design. The very next thing, you imagine if you are in a bookstore, is you flip the book open. The book should have a well-written book description on the back of the book, which teases or creates curiosity for the potential reader to let them know what's inside the book. That's on the physical book. On the Amazon book listing, we recommend to most of our authors who want to include it is you want to tease to the potential reader what's potentially in a variety of chapters in your book. Topic #1 would be chapter one. You would let them know what they would get out of each chapter in some bullet points. Giving those bullet points to that potential reader is giving them some insight as to what is in the book. The nice thing about Amazon as well is they have the ability if you are getting the book online to do a Look Inside and see the table of contents. What we find in most cases is the first line of defense is the book cover. Then it's the back, which is the description on the back of the book or in the Amazon book listing description. Then once when they are inside the book, it's the table of contents. That right there also lets you know you need to have a well-written table of contents that also informs the reader as to what is in the chapter. Those should also be well-written. They are almost like many titles of your book. They are titles of your chapters. That's what I recommend. Hugh: I threw up a cover. This is my fourth book. It was one of the imprints for the United Methodist Publishing House, which has since closed. They did this attractive cover. It was an anthology, so I had famous people on the front and endorsements from the back from two authors of Chicken Soup. We made it to the second print. What was a mistake was the cover doesn't have the subtitle. It was Stories of Transformation by Leaders. I didn't realize until after I had released it that it didn't have it there. That was a liability. To your point, it looked interesting. They had an artist do it, so I went with it. I do find that I look for what it's really about. The other thing is picking the right categories. With Moving Spirits, Building Lives, it's #2 in the transformational leadership category. I don't know how it got there because that was mostly by accident. I tried intentionally to get this one to bestseller. Just wanted to say I did it. I didn't make a lot of money, especially if you go through a regular publisher, you don't get paid until you get that advance back. Speak more about the artistry of design and how, this subliminal message and attraction thing that goes on to entice them to grab it. Once they grab it, that's half the battle, wouldn't you say? Jeremy: I would say so, yeah. Grabbing their attention first, yes. Once you have their attention, then it's the book description that takes them to the next piece. The title leads to the subtitle leads to the description leads to the table of contents, which leads them into the book. If they feel like the book would bring them value, that's when they make the decision to buy the book. Nonfiction books, the value in most cases is something they would learn to improve their life. About 80% of the books we publish are nonfiction. The value to the reader for fiction books is entertainment. Getting them outside of their own reality and their mind to imagine this outside world as entertainment. That is the value you bring to them. A lot of fiction authors don't consider that, but they have to market it that way when they are looking at writing their book description. How can you paint the picture of the value you will bring to this reader, which is capturing their mind and imagination? Hugh: I'm positioning a book as part of the overall marketing program for a nonprofit. Is that okay? It's a marketing tool. There are lots of reasons, but for the purposes of where I'm going with this. It's part of the awareness. It doesn't differ for an entrepreneur running a business. Like leadership, the principles are the same. I'm a speaker, too. Speaking itself is not a sustainable revenue source. You get paid, and it's gone. What we want to do is have back of the room material. You want to have books, courses, and other things you can offer people, which is a secondary flow of revenue. A lot of nonprofits have a lot of resources, their own and those of others who provide value in the space they are operating. Talk a minute about how a 501(c)3 can use a book to monetize, to bring in revenue. Jeremy: That is a great question. To answer your question, the way we have seen this work best, because of our model, we have a traditional publishing house level of quality. The author retains full rights, and they earn 100% of the royalties, minus the printing cost of the book. In that situation, where we've had two paths here, number one is the expert or influencer would write the book from their perspective, teaching something, sharing a message, and the nonprofit is mentioned within the book. The sale of the books would go to raise funds for a 501(c)3. You could sell a bundle of books to a company. When they buy books, the profit of books goes to the nonprofit. That is one way. Another way we have seen several of our authors do is the author runs a business themselves, or they are a speaker. But the nonprofit is the sponsor of the book. The nonprofit is mentioned on the back of the book. A portion of the proceeds go from the sale of the books toward the nonprofit. When the author is promoting the book, they can say, “A portion of the proceeds are going toward this nonprofit.” People like to contribute to causes or businesses that contribute to causes. There is a lot of joint venture opportunities that could come from that as well. The 501(c)3 could have donor lists. A list of all people who have donated. They could send a message to the donors saying, “We have partnered with this author. The proceeds are going back to our nonprofit. We think our audience would love this book. If you buy this book, proceeds go.” There are different types of things you could do within the marketing to split the proceeds or all of the proceeds because the author gets paid to speak or a back-end to the book where they are not so concerned about the profits of the book. This can be good. But they get paid on coaching clients, business services, things like that. Hugh: I have also said there are purpose books that teach people about particular things, how to get out of poverty, topics like that that explain to constituents. I live in Lynchburg, Virginia, where we have a high poverty rate. There are lots of initiatives about poverty. Getting them food, housing, and clothing does not raise them out of poverty. It's the mindset. The mindset takes us to a very different place. My material is helping people reframe their thinking. I spend a lot of time reframing the thinking for nonprofit leaders. I have seen occasions where a sponsor buys the back page. It's a helpful book for a certain segment or purpose. They give it away. But it has the sponsor message. They will buy 10,000 books. The company itself uses it for a marketing tool, and there is a mass distribution. Is that a scenario you see much? Does it really work? Jeremy: To a degree. I would say the most important thing is the sponsor, or the one representing, is in complete alignment with the audience or the reader and the values of the company. With your example, we publish quite a few books for health and wellness professionals or health coaches. I would never recommend they have a big soda company for obvious reasons because they can't condone drinking soda. Hugh: Different brands. Jeremy: And the purpose of the product as well. Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, they are not bad companies. It's just a drink. But it's not ever recommended by that particular person. If a health and fitness trainer wrote a book and they wanted to have a dietary supplement be a sponsor, perfect alignment. The supplement provider could email or promote or Facebook ads, whatever they choose to do, to promote the book, and it also tells them in the book how to take the supplement, which the trainer recommends. There is consistency happening there. I always recommend looking at, in most cases, there is, there is some sort of consistency you could create, and there is a company out there that would see that as alignment for their brand. Hugh: It's the principle I was trying to illuminate there. If their brand is compatible with your brand, and there is value for both brands. Jeremy: I'd say so. Hugh: It's not magical finding someone who wants to do that. Jeremy: On that note, I also do recommend to not make obvious blatant advertisements on the book. When someone normally gets a book, you wouldn't see a blatant advertisement. But marketing is something that we're very focused on with the book. We help with the launch. We are focused on joint ventures. There are easily things you can do to give the reader more value and subtly promote the other company. Using the example of the fitness trainer. Within the book, the fitness trainer talks about using this particular protein supplement. The company is mentioned several times. The author could mention a guide that talks about 50 smoothie recipes to use this supplement with, and they download this guide with these recipes. That company is mentioned, and there is a link you can go to to order this supplement. There are things you can do to not make it an advertisement, but an added value for the reader. Hugh: It's only fair. You have several books. Book Publishing on Demand, Power Authority, and Lead Flow. Those are on Amazon? Jeremy: Yeah. Hugh: You can also find them on JonesMediaPublishing.com. Then you have a podcast. AskJeremyJones.com/Podcast. What kind of things do you talk about on your podcast? Jeremy: The podcast is a lot of fun. We just published our 169th episode. The show is called Ideas and Impact. We interview authors, speakers, and subject matter experts about three big ideas you feel could be really impactful for people if they applied them into their lives, either on the personal side or on the business side. We have interviewed people about relationships, marriage, parenting on the personal side. On the wealth side of things, business growth, marketing, sales, things like that. And on the health side, we have talked about health and fitness, weight loss, all things. It's similar to like a TED Talk. You go there to listen for something insightful that you can immediately put into action with your life. It's been a lot of fun. Hugh: I am sorry I didn't know about your podcast, but I do now. Is there anybody on the horizon that will be exciting? Jeremy: John Nemo is on the line-up. He is a LinkedIn expert. Teaches people how to optimize their LinkedIn profile. We mention John David Mann, who is the co-author of The Go-Giver and also Bob Berg, who co-authored it. We interviewed Ivan Meisner from BNI, the largest business organization in the world. That was an incredible interview as well. We've had a few high-level celebrity-type people. We have Hugh up and coming. That's a given, Hugh. Hugh: I have been having back problems, but I had a shot today, so I'm a new man. Which new man I am. I am eager to find out more. I am going to listen to it. Jeremy: You can get all the episodes at AskJeremyJones.com. Hugh: Jeremy Jones, you are a real wealth of information. We had an author last week, Scott S. Smith, who has written 1,800 leadership articles for Investors Business Daily of all places. Leaders want to know about leaders. It was a powerful interview. I look forward to sharing some things with your audience. This has been helpful. I am reliving my journey of writing a book. I will say to people I spent 40 years in church music ministry. One time, I did a pivot and said, “I am a transformational leader.” I repositioned myself. I went from having my back to the audience as a conductor to facing the audience as a speaker. That was a physical 180-degree transformation. The book was a way for me to be clear on my message. Once I started writing, I found out I knew a whole lot of stuff that was valuable to people. We are in the third printing. To keep the price down, I bought a whole bunch. You can have a print book, but you can do it on demand. You can print a few. You can print a bunch. What are some of the options when you publish a book? Jeremy: We recommend to start with the print on demand option to get the process going until the author has enough established where they can hold some books on hand, which is a good idea to have some on hand. In most cases, because we run a printing and distribution facility, we can print on demand pretty quickly for our authors. We have one author just recently about a week and a half ago did an event with 200 people. She let us know, “Hey, I am doing an event with 200 people. I am going to need 200 books at this address.” We print them, package them up, ship them to her event. Within about five business days, they can be printed. We can fulfill and do that on demand. For higher quantities of books, make sure there is a good reason to have a higher quantity. You can get some price breaks. We can do that as well. Typically, what we do is start with the paperback. That's established. The author knows their printing pricing. We can work with that as well. Then we have the e-book version. There is no hard cost there. Once we finalize the paperback and do the release, a few of our authors like to have a hardback version. We do have printing facility capabilities to do that version with a dust jacket, which looks really nice. The printing cost is a little bit higher, but we have worked it out where we can do it on fairly low quantities. We can do a couple hundred books for a reasonable cost. Hugh: Good to know. There is the paperback, the hardback, the e-book, and the Kindle book. What about audiobooks? Are those valuable? Jeremy: Those are valuable. We provide some training and resources of how to get that up and going. We don't provide the services to do that. There is three options. Some of the authors want to speak the book themselves, which we usually recommend as the best option. But they have to have capability to go to a studio, record the audios, and have it cut properly for Amazon ACX, which is Audible's program for audiobooks. The second option is you can hire a voice actor and pay them up front. You still retain your side of the rights, and you get the royalties from Amazon directly. The third option is you can hire a voice recording artist and split the royalties with them. That's all built into there. You can choose the royalty option you want. We provide some resources. If the author wants to do an audiobook, we guide them on what is the best option and how it works. Hugh: That was the audiobook from Barefoot Winery. They were our guest a few weeks ago. They had a whole drama team that did the book. It was stunning. They didn't spare any cost. They sold the winery. They are marketing experts who accidentally got into the winery business. I never thought about getting a drama team to produce the book. It was a story. That was powerful. They helped nonprofits raise money through their activity with the winery. The book was out there to say this is an idea for you. It's been a bestseller for quite a while. Jeremy: I like that. It makes sense. Hugh: A lot of people do creative things. Books are not dead. I was talking to somebody the other day about how good leaders read. People at the top of their game read. There is no variance to that. They read the same books again over time and mark it with a different color marker because you will see different things when you go back. On my bookshelf, I have a lot of Kindle books, too. Somebody was telling me a physical book, you absorb better. Do you have an opinion on that, whether physical books are better than e-books? Jeremy: I am of the view that everybody learns differently. When some people learn something new or when they relax, they like to look at the words on a physical paper. I like to do that, too. I like to look and jot notes in the margins or write things down as I'm going. Total focus. If I have a book I want to totally focus on, I will get a paperback. I find that's the case with most people. When you just want to take a book with you, I have a Kindle app as well on all my devices, I like to have e-books as well to have books I can reference. E-books are great for that, to have a library of books you can carry around with you everywhere. Audiobooks are popular right now. We are starting to get more involved with that, with our clients. That's a great medium for when people are busy. A lot of business owners listen to audiobooks now. When you're driving and commuting places, you can listen to audiobooks. You can't read while you're driving until we all have self-driving Teslas, which I don't know how many years that's out. For right now, we're not reading while we're driving, so audiobooks are a great option for that. I think it depends on how you consume information. I agree with you. I don't think paperbacks, even though we have all these capabilities in different mediums, I really don't think that they're going anywhere. Hugh: I agree. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Jeremy Jones, what do you want to leave people with? Jeremy: For anyone watching or listening, if you have had a dream and a desire to write a book, we have many people say, “I just wanted to write something, to inspire people, to share a message with people.” A lot of people think that contacting a publisher too early in the process. I need to get further along. I need to write out my ideas. I need to get to some point before I explore that with anyone. I think the earlier, the better. That's what we're here for. On the foundational process, of making sure all the things work together to meet your objectives for a book. Some people, I say, “Hey, I think this is a great idea for a book, but not now. With where you're at and what you're doing, wait until you have this set up or this timing is better.” A lot of it is timing. That's what we do. We do a free book strategy session with anyone who would like to explore the idea of a book, how it can integrate with your organization, how that could work. We'd be happy to explore that. Also, I run a free Facebook group for the podcast called Ideas and Impact. If you go to AskJeremyJones.com, there is a Facebook icon at the top. Click on that, and you can join our free group. I am happy to answer any questions you have or explore the idea with you. Hugh: Jeremy Jones, this has been a delight. I have published lots of books, but I have learned a lot of new stuff today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 1 2020 Hugh Ballou d Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months. Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.     Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Spotlight on SynerVision Leadership Foundation's Online Community for Community Builders About Today's Episode: Today's episode is a little different. Rather than interview a nonprofit expert, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and host of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou shares some details about the online community for community builders. He discusses the details about all the resources and added value that nonprofit leaders get by joining this community.   Read the Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. People don't really know the word “SynerVision” because I made it up. I'm a musician. I'm a conductor. Conductors create community. We call this “ensemble,” whether it's instrumental or vocal, it's a choir or orchestra. It becomes an ensemble because we function together at a higher level. In our boards and our staff and our committees in the nonprofit world, which includes churches and synagogues, we create this higher functioning. It's the synergy we create with a common vision. The synergy we create with a common vision is defined by SynerVision. As leaders, we are catalysts, we're visionaries, we lead, we influence people, and we make things happen. For 32 years, I've been working with nonprofit leaders all over the place, on at least four continents and multiple countries. A lot of work in America. A lot of work with cause-based charities. People wanting to impact other people's lives. I spent 40 years serving an organized church from 120-12,000-member churches. I've seen it from different perspectives and different sized organizations. I have worked exterior to multiple types of nonprofit organizations. Membership organizations, cause-based charities, and many others. We have a million and a half 501(c)3s in this country. What I do know, statistics show that half of the new nonprofits that are formed every year will close, some with money in the bank. They will close because they are not able to fulfill their mission. There are many reasons for this. More often than not, it's one person with a cause, with a passion, with a fire; however, that person is unable to let that fire spread and build a sustainable legacy under that vision. We want to make sure that we've fully thought out the process, built a strategy, and built a team; therefore, we can be fundable and sustainable. You can create your legacy that can continue. SynerVision is the legacy I am creating that will continue the work after I'm gone. I want to share about the work of SynerVision. It's for nonprofit leaders and clergy. Those of you making a difference leading an organization, one you founded, one you didn't found, it doesn't matter. You're the person in charge of implementing the vision. You're the person influencing others to make things happen. You're the person that builds and maintains relationships so that you can lead, you can fund, and you have a communication system based on, yes, relationships. SynerVision is designed to provide high-quality resources for you working in the trenches, things that are going to help you get unblocked. Maybe you're not blocked, but you're not really hitting your stride. Maybe you have some money and have a staff, but if you got more funding, more staff, more focus, you can impact more people's lives. It's not about the money. The money is necessary to provide for people who do the work. It's sort of like building a car. Once we build the car, we have to get the gas to make the car go. Therefore, money is an important commodity that we must have a replenishable supply because we do run out of gas. We have to refuel. In order to make that happen, there are lots of moving parts. My job is to equip, empower, and train nonprofit leaders to build boards, to build strategies, to build systems, to create funding, and to impact people's lives more fully. To fully achieve the mission of the organization. Let me do a few terms, define a few terms at this point. In my world, as a strategist, I am a transformational leadership strategist. Transformational leadership is the culture of high performance. The leader leads the culture, sort of like a conductor leads the orchestra or a choir. We don't play the notes. We enable other people to perform. We lead. We guide. We influence. The leader is the leader. In terms of strategy, we must know who we are, what we're doing, what we stand for, who we serve. Our vision is that short statement that creates this mental picture of what we're doing. SynerVision Leadership Foundation transforms organizations to impact people's lives, building legacies. You doing okay, you say? Okay. Could you do better? Could you impact more people? Leaders at the top of their game impact more people. Leaders saying, “I've got it all. Don't need any” are pretty dangerous. We need to stay out of people's ways because we never learn it all. At 73, I am continuing to grow my skillset, my abilities every day. I encourage you to think about building the skillset. Define the terms of engagement. The vision is the concept. What are we? What defines what we do? Rise Against hunger, feeding people. Their vision is ending hunger in our lifetime. They didn't limit it. Powerful vision. The mission statement is application. SynerVision does transform organizations and leaders, empowers them and engages them, equips leaders for service through leadership training, strategy, board development, funds resourcing. There are a lot of tools of the trade. Fundamentally, we guide you in creating your vision, your mission, your objectives, your funding strategy, your budget, and all the people parts of working an organization. We can have this piece of paper, a strategy, but without the people, it's a piece of paper. Think of a conductor stepping on a podium, and they have this piece of paper in front of them with all these dots. We call that music. It's a conductor's score. Everything that happens is written in that piece of music. When you sit in front of your board, your staff, your committees, you have your road map. That is your strategic plan. SynerVision, we have created what we call a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? It's not a business plan. People can extract a business plan from this. That's a simpler document. It's a financial document that you give a major funder or your banker. The strategic plan, the solution map is a plan of operation. It's an implementation document. Do this first. Do this next. Do this concurrently. Who does what and when, and how it all leads you toward manageable, quantifiable objectives. I'm talking about SynerVision Leadership Foundation. It's a resource bank, specifically for those of us leading social benefit organizations, charities, religious institutions under the umbrella of nonprofit. IRS calls us a tax-exempt organization. It's a for-purpose organization, not necessarily a for-profit organization. The flow of money is important. There are many regulations guiding how we utilize those funds, but we do have a pathway for good. We want to impact people's lives. That's why we exist. I've created this online resource. We've called it the community for community builders. If you are doing work of a charity, it's governed, and financial guidelines are set by the board of directors. You may have founded it, but you don't run it. The board of directors is in charge of the organization, not the day-to-day operations, but the governance. How you set policies, what do you approve, do you approve contracts, do you approve the budget. The board sets that strategy. The implementation is done by staff. That's a clear delineation. Now having said that, I've worked within organizations that are in transition. If the board didn't work, nothing would happen. The board must be engaged, must be active, must be donors, must be on committees, must be doing the work of the charity, guided by staff. The staff reports to the board. It's a very good system. The executive director and the development/funding strategist are employed by the board. They serve at the pleasure of the board. They fulfill the strategy using the marketing plan, funding plan, strategic plan. They do the work of the organization and report through the president, the board chair to the board of directors. There is a clear definition of how this all works. We don't have all this knowledge in our heads. We know what we know. We're an expert at what we do. We have a passion. We have a vision for excellence. We are impacting nonprofits, empowering, engaging, raising their capacity for performance. We are connecting the dots from strategy to performance. Sounds like a conductor. We conduct the performer. We can do all the planning we need to create results because people are depending on us. We are called to a higher cause. This is the labor of our passion along with all those people who serve us as volunteers, staff, board members, committee chairs, committee members. The leader rallies that. This is all under the umbrella of how we build communities. We are building communities: your board, staff, volunteers, the people you serve. You are building communities of action. We turn apathy into excitement. We turn passive into active. We as leaders transform ideas into reality. We transform people's lives by the work we do. We need support. It's lonely work. We're overworked. We're underpaid. We have a lot of stress. There is a pathway forward for that. It depends on the leader constantly building their capacity to lead. Actually, the leader does less. Other people do more. I hear from folks who are burned out. “I have been willing to do what I ask other people to do.” Yes, that's right. The key word is “willing.” You know how. You're willing. However, there is somebody sitting around that board table who is very capable. If you do it, you're robbing them of an opportunity to use their passion for good. That's why they're there. We must get out of the way. We create the system. We manage the system. We lead people. We don't manage. We lead people. We inspire. We influence. That's hard work. I don't care what anybody says. It's very difficult work. Actually, it's more difficult in the nonprofit community than in the business community. It's important work, and that's our calling. I've created a private space to get people out of the toxic environment of today's social media. It's really bad. We get distracted. We find all kinds of harsh things happening there. We see things that we're not proud of on social media. I've created our own community. It's just for people like you. Just for people like you. it's an online community for those of us building communities. In the South, we say none of us is as smart as all of us. That's an important statement. We are the sum total of the people we hang around the most. Now, what happens if we hang around broke people? What if we hang around people who have failed at everything they do and have no initiative to learn from those experiences? How does that shape us? Sometimes, I've met people who want to hang around others that they perceive to be less qualified than themselves because it elevates them in other people's eyes. Oh, you're more important. You're more successful. Turn that around. You want to be with people much more successful than yourself. In the community, you have the chance to do that. It's a private community for those of us leading for-purpose work. It's the SynerVision Leadership Community, a community for community builders. You can find it at nonprofitcommunity.org. NonprofitCommunity.org. Remember that? It's pretty easy. NonprofitCommunity.org. It takes you to SynerVision. Blue button, “Join.” $40 a month will buy you a lot of stuff. Peace of mind. Stress reduction. It's a network of people doing the work that can help you. You get a whole lot of goods. You can try it out for a dollar for the first month. If you like it, you can keep on. When you join the community for community builders, I give you a program that I sell for $97. You're selling $100 almost. It's the five pillars to success. It's the five pillars in building a successful recurring income organization. We need to have all the pieces in place. You need all five of these. You can't skip one. It cuts your ability by half if you just eliminate one. It's the five pillars. Video, action guides. It's a short course. It won't take you a long time. You can do it all in one morning if you want. Download the program. Once you join, it's free. That's my gift to you as a joining bonus. There is also a report on building a profitable, sustainable nonprofit. It's a read-only report. It's not a video. Those two things will give you value. Plus you get a 50% discount—remember, you paid a dollar to get in here. You will get a 50% discount. One buckaroo to try this out for a month. Then it will go to the $40. You could go save $200-$500 on programs. Self-study programs that will make a difference. How about if somebody can help you find your blind spots? Those things that keep you hitting the wall. Those things that throw you off a cliff. Those things that get you stuck in the mud. You didn't see them. They are making you stuck. Maybe you think you're making progress. Your board and staff might think differently. You have no clue as to what's missing. Those are blind spots. What do we know? What do we not know? What is it that we don't know we don't know? I don't know it all. I hang around smart people. That's the guide. Hang around people smarter than you. We have turned the consulting model around. It's WayFinders. We guide the way. You know more about your work than we do. We have systems. We help you learn the systems that you can apply your knowledge to learning to running your organization that is so important to you, the world, and the people around you. Take off the stuff on your forehead that says, “I know all this.” No. No. We don't know everything. We know some things. The more I learn, the less I realize that I actually know. There is so much. The best leaders I work with are constantly working on building their skills. That's what I've learned. If you want to learn, make some mistakes. Those are learning opportunities. If you want to grow, hang around successful people. If you want to be the best, continue learning. We're providing this community from SynerVision for you. You join. There are 400 articles about leadership. There is five years' worth of magazines you can read: The Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine. Articles by wonderful people on many topics. When you join, you can get that magazine in your mailbox four times a year. You have curriculum. There is a forum on topics. As you're in there, you'll get to weigh in on what topics are important to you. 24/7, you have access to all of this. One day a week, it's office hours. I show up. Hugh and people who are influencer members for Q&As. What about this? What about that? It's guided through the curriculum of the online program, Unbound Leader, which you get at a 50% discount. Topic-based conversations guiding your learning, helping you figure out how to apply the knowledge. Getting contacts all over the country from others who are in this learning covenant along with you. Once a week, once a month, whenever you like, you can chime in. It's video. We see you, and you see us. Or you can just listen to others. Many times, we learn more just by listening to others ask questions that we may not have ever thought about asking. So the online community for community builders has lots of great value. I am encouraging you to try it out. You're risking a dollar. There is no refund option. It's a dollar. You will get a whole lot more value the first 30 seconds you're there, and you continue receiving value. The more we build critical mass, the more good people who are there, the more content we share, the more we learn, the more we grow, the more we network, learning how to collaborate with others who could benefit us. This is The Nonprofit Exchange. It's one of the programs we have offered for four and a half years now in the community for community builders. You will have access to interviews with wonderful leaders, with wonderful knowledge, with great ideas. Every interview has a transcript. You get to read the transcript. You get to listen. You get to watch the video. Choose the topics, find the ones you like the most. Grab it. It's yours. There are those kinds of assets in there. And the forums and live Q&As. When you talk to others in the trenches. The Meyer Foundation discovered that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving because of burnout. The #1 problem. The #2 problem: low revenue. #3: low functioning board. Those are the high ones. But the Meyer Foundation did that discovery that 45% of nonprofit leaders were leaving, done, were burned out because we don't know how to delegate, we don't know how to say no, we don't know how to sequence our work so that it's actually doable. It's not as easy as falling off a log. There is some work to getting it there. There is hope. There is a pathway. There is a process. We have assets. You don't need to copy everything, but there is a template. Here are ideas. Here is how it's normally done. Take the ideas, and make it your own system. Remember, I'm not a consultant who tells you what to do. I'm a WayFinder who guides you on the pathway of learning your own processes, building your skills, and creating your own outcomes. There is a huge difference in self-sufficiency. That is the title of that report that you get is Self-Sufficiency. You can get the free program, mini course, five pillars of success. You have to build those pillars. A self-sustainability report on thinking through how you are going to be self-sustainable so that you're not waking up every day trying to think of where money is coming from today. You should have two years of salary in the bank. You should have operational money in the bank. You should have money in a foundation, endowment fund that pays interest that is part of your revenue generation. Earned interest on money you have in your bank that has been donated. Those resources are in the community for community builders. NonprofitCommunity.org will take you there. Click on the blue button, “Join.” It's time to quit wasting time. It's time to make a decision. Good leaders make a decision. Some people listening to this will not make a decision. 97/100 people will not make a decision. They'll say, “That's interesting. I will figure it out myself.” You probably will. We can help you shorten that timeline, go way more directly toward the targets, the success, and the results that you want to see. It's investing in the future. You can certainly figure it out. We are here to help you do it in a shorter time frame and with more sustainable large results. I'm inviting you to go to NonprofitCommunity.org. Hit the Join button for a dollar. Boom, you're in. Look around. There is a place to register for the Thursdays at 3 Eastern. We will expand that to when can you meet. Is there a better time than that? Let's get started. Time's a-wastin'. Opportunity is whizzing by our faces because we need to learn more to be able to seize those opportunities. I will tell you. Standing here, speaking to you today, I have made all of the mistakes conceivable. I have learned from those mistakes, and I have created programs because of those mistakes and because of the problems I see others encountering. I have gone backwards from the negative result to what to do about it. I am streaming live on Facebook to catch more people. It's TheNonprofitExchange.org. Every week, 2:00, we broadcast with some expert telling us something we wish we'd known all along, or we would have been more successful had we known it. TheNonprofitExchange.org takes you to the page where the current and the future episodes are, and four years' worth of archives. Very valuable resources indeed. Today's version of The Nonprofit Exchange is to talk about the SynerVision online community for community builders, and to let you know there is a chance to check it out for a dollar. Go in, try it. NonprofitCommunity.org. That's where you go. We'll see you on one of those weekly Q&A sessions because even if you don't know what to ask, there is a question in your mind. How do we formulate those questions and find the answer that is right for you? it will be different for each one of you. We need to know how to arrive at that answer, what that answer will mean for the health of the organization, and what is the pathway forward to implementing that strategy from the answer. This is Hugh Ballou, the founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation saying thank you for being here. *Sponsor message from EZCard* Thank you for being here. Thank you for clicking on the online community for community builders. We have resources we have created just for you. They are not way expensive. Some are free. A lot is free. Many are very low-cost. Many will impact your future because they are things that you will learn that you didn't know before. I am going to sign off on this episode. Thank you for being here. 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  How to Put a "Twist" in Your Brand with Julie Cottineau (Archive) Julie Cottineau is the Founder and CEO of BrandTwist, a brand consultancy group that helps entrepreneurs and corporations build stronger, more profitable brands. Prior to launching her own business, she was the VP of Brand at Richard Branson's Virgin Group, overseeing branding strategy for new and established Virgin companies in North America. About the Interview: Ever wonder how Richard Branson manages to shake things up every time, in so many different industries? Julie Cottineau, spent 5 years as the VP of Brand for Virgin in North America helping to grow this iconic brand. Now the best-selling author of TWIST: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands (Panoma Press 2016), Founder & CEO of BrandTwist will show you how TWIST your non profit's brand  for maximum impact. Fresh ideas come from looking at old problems from new perspectives. In this podcast, Julie will teach you how to: Go beyond “me-too” marketing, and get stand out Make the most of every brand touch-point – large and small Connect with target more deeply to create loyal brand ambassadors Walk away with tangible new ideas for your organization Why nonprofits should care about brand A unique, compelling brand can make or break even the strongest, most worthy enterprise. Once you understand the true nature of your brand, you achieve clarity and focus. You are in a much better position to serve the cause and the people you're really passionate about. Literally, it can change a life. Your charity, church or synagogue needs a strong brand – one with a TWIST. The TWIST is your unique story that will help you stand out, get the attention your good work deserves and build a loyal community of followers, donors, and volunteers.   Read the Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. It's Hugh Ballou and Russell David Dennis. Russell, how are you out there in Denver, mile high Colorado? Russell Dennis: The sun is shining, but you step outside and it's very cold. I'm having Northern Maine flashbacks with these single digit temperatures here. Hugh: We are recording in the wintertime. People listen at all places. It might be warm in the other hemisphere, and it might be summer in the northern hemisphere when you listen to it. But the message is that we give you the techniques and strategies and information. It doesn't have a season. It's stuff you can use any time. This is a real important topic today, like all of them, but we tend to skip over this thing of branding. We tend to think it's a picture, a logo. We got a brand, we got a logo. We are going to explore the different facets of branding and give you a top level view of what it looks like and what it is. One of the best people I know has this great book out called Twist. Julie Cottineau. Did I say it right, Julie? Julie Cottineau: Close enough. Hugh: I have a good memory, but it's short. Thank you for being our guest today. Tell the people listening a little bit about you and a little bit about brand twist. Julie: I think I have been branding since I was eight years old. When I was a little girl growing up in Massachusetts, my parents wouldn't let me have a pet because my brother was allergic. I went out in my garden and took a rock and put it in a Cool Whip container. I poked holes in it so it would be able to breathe. I invented the pet rock. Two years later, some guy named Gary Dahl in San Francisco invented the official pet rock because he was also fed up with regular pets. He was in a bar after work, he worked in advertising, and all his friends were leaving to feed their cats and walk their dogs. He said there has to be a pet with no hassle, so he created the official pet rock for no hassle. I created the non-allergic pet rock. Ever since then, I have been creating solutions with a twist from a different angle. Hugh: Twist. How did that name come about? Julie: That's another story. I was working as a branding consultant for Interbrand, a large branding agency. I was traveling all over the country. I was at Newark Airport one day. I looked out of the window and saw this 747 with these golden arches on the tailspin. I stopped in my tracks and thought, That would be a really interesting airline. It would be different than all these other airlines that had the same color seats and stewardesses and the same experience. A McDonalds airline, maybe I could buy a regular economy seat and supersize it to a premium seat. I looked up again and realized that it was a mirage. It was actually the reflection of the food court sign on the window, and there happened to be a plane. You following me? It was a hallucination. But it started me thinking, if you are in the airline business and want to break through, stop worrying about your other airline competitors and twist with other brands. Find brands that you admire that are doing cool things outside of your category, and twist those lessons with your brand. That started it all. Hugh: We put a snazzy title for this. The top mistakes. What are some of the things that people do that you wish they wouldn't do? Julie: We put the top three mistakes; it was hard to keep it to three. Hugh: I'll bet. Julie: You can grow to four. These were mistakes nonprofits are making. The first one is what we were just talking about: not really understanding what a brand is. In fact, confusing your branding with your marketing. That is a big mistake. Your marketing is how you get your message out there, but your branding is your fundamental story. What are you about? Why should people care? All great stories, if we think about our favorite movies and books, they have a twist. They have something unexpected in the plot. The number one mistake is stop saying if I only had ten times the marketing budget, I could build my nonprofit. Well, I could throw 20 times the marketing budget at you, but if your brand isn't in shape, your fundamental story of who you are, who you serve, and what's different about you, then it's a waste of money. Hugh: It's a waste of money. What happens when- I guess one of the fundamental branding issues with a nonprofit is the word “nonprofit.” It really puts us in a negative twist of scarcity thinking and nonprofit, we gotta have profit to be able to run this church or synagogue or community charity. How do we start out on this journey of creating our brand? Talk about brand image, brand promise, brand identity. There is a lot of facets to this besides the logo. Julie: Your brand is not your logo. Your brand is fundamentally your story, and your logo and name should help reflect that. I think a very unique challenge of nonprofits is the second mistake. They really try to welcome everybody. People who work in the nonprofit world are attracted to it because there is this inclusive instinct. Branding is actually about choices. If you have a page of your website that tries to tell everybody about everything that you do, you will connect with no one. It's like the twist on AT&T: reach out and touch someone. It's like reach out and touch no one. What I say the most important thing about branding is be clear on who you want to serve and the issues you want to promote. Be very choiceful. Narrow them down. Most nonprofit websites look like someone threw spaghetti up on the website and wanted to see what sticks. Branding is like an onion. Just tell me a little bit for me to get to know you, and then I will keep peeling the layers back to continue to get to know you. Less is more. Particularly in nonprofit branding. Hugh: Russell, we see lots of funky things, don't we? Russell: Yeah, it gets really interesting. If your target is everyone, you're marketing to no one. What it's about is really having people understand what it is that you do. A confused mind always says no. From a perspective of nonprofit, what is it precisely that a brand should do for a nonprofit? What is that main benefit that they get? I don't think people always understand the benefit in taking time to actually build a brand. What is that main benefit, and how does that really empower nonprofits? Julie: The main benefit is your brand promise. Getting clear on your brand promise. Getting specific on your brand promise. It's not we want to help people, or we want to make everyone feel included, or we want to make life better. Those brand promises are not gonna stick because not that they're not valid, but they're just so overused. It's like when Charlie Brown hears the teacher talk, and all he hears is “wah wah wah.” When I work with nonprofit clients, what problem are we trying to solve? Can we get really specific on that problem? Not that we want to give people shelter or help homeless people, but keep digging deeper. We want to help people feel at home. We want to help people feel that they can realize who they are in their minds versus how other people are seeing them. We keep digging. We get to one brand promise. The main thing we do with that brand promise is we don't validate it by looking at all the other nonprofits in our space, and we don't create it by committee, which is hard for nonprofits. Nonprofits love committees. What we try to do is say if there is a leader of the nonprofit, whether it's the president of the board or head of marketing, they need to own the brand. Everybody else can contribute their ideas, but at some point, someone needs to make a decision and get everybody on board. Versus we need a direction that everybody can live with, but no one hates. That is the definition of weak branding, when you go to the lowest common denominator. Hugh: She has good sound bites here, doesn't she, Russ? Russell: Brilliant. It's quite a field. I have done some marketing myself. I started out working in market research and sold some advertising on television and in print. But that doesn't really speak to brand. I was just fascinated by why people do some things. Describe to us what attracted you to the career of helping others build brands. How did that particular piece of marketing expertise jump out at you? Julie: I've always liked storytelling. I studied communications and creative writing. When I was little, my rockstar was Judy Bloom. I won a contest at the library to go hear her speak. To me, that was winning the Super Bowl. I was so excited by it. I've always been interested in storytelling. Branding is a very unique way to tell your story. I am in my office. I like to use all the different tools that I have. My brand is purple because it's the twist of red and blue. I tell my story not just in words, but also in images. You will never see me on stage without some purple on. The walls of the office are purple. The cover on my book is a twist of pink and purple. Nonprofits, one of the mistakes I see them making is they use stock photography because it's cheap, and I understand that. But they build websites. Don't invest a lot of money in them, but build them with a lot of images. The minute they set up their nonprofit, they are saying we're just like everybody else. There are inexpensive ways to take stock photography but frame it differently, treat it with a different color. We learn those lessons by looking at brands like Tiffany's. Tiffany's is a great brand to twist with. If someone gives you a blue Tiffany's box, I say to my husband, it almost doesn't matter what's in the box. The blue is their brand. Tiffany's robin egg blue. It sets up this expectation of an experience. I think that nonprofits should look at things like that, like owning a color. As soon as you see the red Target ad, you know right away, even if you don't hear the name and only see a slice of the logo, you know right away it's a Target ad. Hugh: It's funny you bring that up. They are changing their colors in Lynchburg to white. I don't know where I am. I was so into the red. The doors are still red, and people still wear the red and khaki. You were vice president of Richard Branson's Virgin. What are some of the important things you learned from that experience? That's powerful. Julie: It was an amazing experience. I think the biggest thing that I learned from Richard is not to be afraid to fail. He has an expression, “Fail harder.” Another one he has that is hopefully ok for this podcast, and is the title of one of his books is, “Screw it, let's do it.” If you have a good idea, and it feels like it's going to make an impact, don't test it to death, don't run it through 10 different committees, just try it. It might be successful, and it might not be. We know that we learn the most from the things that go wrong. It really opened me up to being more adventurous. I came home from my corporate job. I had been there five years, and I was having a great time. I said to my husband, “Screw it, let's do it. I am going to start my own company.” He said, “I don't think that's what that means. We have two children to put through college.” I said, “No, that's exactly what that means. I have an idea to create a branding consultancy and a book and a learning program, and I'm going to do it. If it's successful, great. If it's not, I am going to learn a lot.” That's what I did seven years ago actually. Hugh: Wow, you're still there doing it. Your book is called Twist: How Fresh Perspectives Build Breakthrough Brands. I remember you kindly sent me a copy to preview it. I think I did a respectable interview a couple years ago on the Orchestrating Success podcast for business leaders. This is a wholly different focus today. Really it's not. Good branding, good leadership, good marketing is probably the same. We do have a lot of hang-ups when we are working for a nonprofit that we shouldn't have. Where can people get your book? Julie: You can get it on Amazon. The easiest place. Hugh: And the color makes it stand out. I was amazed, Russell, that she finds a way to twist that word “twist” into pretty much every page of that book. It's phenomenal how this plays out. Before Russ goes into another question, I want to ask you. You do board retreats. There is a tension between different perspectives and an apparent contrast. When you have this side and this side, when you start looking at the intersection, there is some real finite truth or wisdom. We have a different outcome, but we also have ownership at some level. When you do a board retreat, I would assume it's a branding retreat, talk about the dynamics of how the board plays into the decision and how it goes from the retreat to the final decision. That is where a lot of us get stuck. Julie: Board retreats are interesting dynamics. The first thing I do is get everybody out of whatever the location is, whether it's the church or synagogue, into a relaxed atmosphere where they can think differently, to use the apple. I also get them to start thinking about other brands. We don't think about our organization as a brand, as a story, as something unique. We get bogged down into that won't work, we tried that, I'm not sure about that. We have to remember that the people we are trying to engage, whether it's members, donors, or volunteers, they don't live in this box with only our brand. They live in the wider world with a wider brandscape. I ask the board members ahead of time, “What brands do you admire, and why?” If you admire Starbucks because it customizes your order or Nike because it motivates you or Uber because it helps you get around when you are on a business trip, why wouldn't you bring some of those qualities to your organization? Why wouldn't you twist some of those things? Why shouldn't our church or synagogue or nonprofit also be customized and seamless to use and have clever impactful messaging? When I get them to think beyond their nonprofit to his larger brandscape and twist those ideas, then it breaks through. We come up in a short amount of time with solutions we hadn't had for months and months of board meetings. The second part of your question is the trickier part, which is how do you move it forward? That is where I would say it shouldn't be a democracy. The president of the board or the head of the nonprofit should get the input of everybody. If they are in a position of leadership, they have to take the leadership and say, “I have listened to everybody. This is what we're going to do. You don't have to agree with it 100%, but you have to understand why we're doing it and help us tell the story to a larger group.” Russell: That's an interesting perspective. There is a tricky balance to strike as far as getting by it. Obviously, you want your people to go with that. Who exactly is brand twisting for? With nonprofits, you have multiple audiences. You have multiple constituencies. You have your board, volunteers, donors, other people who fund your work, staff. How do you make that marriage work for all of those different audiences? Who is twisting specifically for? How do you do that? Julie: I like to work in brand development committees. I just rebranded a school system. We created a brand development committee that had the superintendent as the leader. Ultimately, she is the leader of that brand. She had to buy into it. We had two members of the board represented, not all 12, just two. We had a few practitioners represented, so some principals and teachers. We had some staff, the people, if we were going to change the website, on a daily basis, who are going to have to program it, and things like that. We had a committee of about 8 or 10 people. We worked in that committee and got through surveys and other strategic planning input from the community, parents and students. You can pull in input as data points, but don't make your committee 30 people sitting around a table. You're not going to get anything done. The 8-10 people worked on the branding solutions. We led them through the process. We committed as a group with the superintendent's opinion counting the most to the one recommendation we were going to go back to the school board and make, with a lot of great rationale of how we got through the journey. It worked because we had a process. We had representation. Ultimately, we went with a recommendation and a clear rationale on that recommendation. Russell: When it comes to communication, eight people is about the span of control. Once you get beyond eight, the wheels start to come off the wagon. Julie: What we did was when we rebranded, we didn't ask everybody, “Do you like this?” Branding is like naming your kids. You never tell anybody your intended names until the birth announcement comes out because all those opinions won't be helpful. It's your opinion as the parent that really counts. We named the new logo and gave it a story. We created a video that explained the change. We launched internally first so all the teachers beyond the committee got the preview first. Then we went out to the larger group. It wasn't like the brand launch was overnight. It wasn't just throwing up a logo and saying, “What do you think?” It was a really carefully crafted story that we told over and over for about a year until everybody understood it and got it and got behind it. Russell: One of the things that you mentioned in the book is that people have blinders on around branding. What is it that you mean by blinders? How do we work around these? Julie: It's like a horse, if you're trying to lead a racehorse out and put the blinders on so they can't see anything beyond them, it keeps them going forward. But the downside of that in branding is we work in nonprofit that has to do with cancer. We spend all our time looking at nonprofits that have to do with cancer and we worry about being seen as legitimate. Because we worry about being seen as legitimate, we end up being very safe but also using the same words and images as everybody else. That is what I mean by brand blinders, is only thinking in your category. If you lift your head up, I mean honestly your next board meeting, have it in a Starbucks. That would be a good use of everybody's time, or your favorite restaurant, or your favorite brand experience. Say, Look around. Why are we spending twice as much on a coup of coffee? Why is this an experience that we all come to? Why is everybody else hanging out here? What are they doing? Look how they are naming the baristas. Look how they are using the color green. Look how they are creating an atmosphere of welcome. What are the specific things that they're doing to make us feel like this is not just a cup of coffee, but an engaging experience? How can we twist those with our nonprofit? Russell: What do you think are some of the more common mistakes that nonprofit leaders have? I imagine that these blinders have a lot to do with it. But what are the most common ones? Julie: Sticking within the category is a really common one. Another thing is taking too much input, trying to do too many things, like I mentioned. Most nonprofit websites, the front page will give you a headache because they are talking about everything. Setting a clear vision and using that as a funnel. I would say there is some overlooked brand touchpoints that nonprofits should think about. In my book, I talk about these vomit bag moments, which came from Virgin Atlantic, which was one of the brands that I looked after as part of Virgin Management. Virgin Atlantic did a very clever thing. They had these air sickness bags, which they had to provide anyway. It's an FAA requirement. They have to be in every seat pocket for every flight over six hours, I think. Most airlines, well, what color are they for most airlines? Hugh: White? Julie: White, plain, no message. What Virgin Atlantic did was brand them. They made them red, which was the brand color, and they wrote a little story on them about how flying used to be fun, people used to get dressed up, and what happened to flying in terms of taking away all the peanuts. They twisted it back to a story about on how Virgin Atlantic, you will always feel great flying. I say to for-profit and nonprofit clients is: What are your vomit bag moments? What are the things you're doing anyway as part of your brand experience, but you could add a twist? Whether it's an invoice that you send, whether it's a thank-you note, whether it's a gift, on-hold music. If you have a phone calling as part of your nonprofit. Those are the little moments where you could add something that supports the brand and stands out. Hugh: When did this word “twist” come in your present thinking? How did that get so deeply embedded in your being? Julie: I think it was that airline experience. The McDonalds airline, I needed to look in a different way. I needed to look at things from a different angle. The more I started using it, the more people played it back to me as something that was helpful to them. Hugh: I like how she uses it instead of other words and twisting ideas into something that is unique. Part of what you all are talking about is back when you started this interview today, who do we serve? It's our avatar, so to speak. Russell talked about marketing. We have to have a target. We want to attract certain people. We tend to think everyone needs us. How do you help your clients narrow down to that specific person that they want to attract? Julie: We create brand avatars. We look at up to three targets, and we create personas for each of them. Instead of saying, if you're a medical nonprofit, it's health care practitioners, we will say it's Dr. Bob, and we will give Bob a backstory, and what keeps him up at night, and who lives in his household, creating a character in a novel. We will do that up to three times. What we're looking for though is to turn this target into real people with real problems we can help solve. Hugh: When we're talking to a specific person, we're talking to the person who is sitting in the community nonprofit trying to figure out how to attract donors and volunteers and the next board member. Russell hit on it earlier, he says a confused mind says no. How many times have we had people ask for donations and board and all they get is excuses because all that person sees is I'm going to get sucked into this vortex? Russell: Endless time commitment and bottomless blank checks. People aren't clear. The brand is important. The one question I have about brand is is a brand what you make it, is a brand forever? Are there appropriate times to look at it to see what you have is outdated or not working? Julie: That's a great question. I think you do need to update your story every once in a while, or at least take a look at it. I do a lot of rebranding, if organizations merge, when there are major changes in the segment that organization serves, when there is new leadership. I think it's a very worthwhile exercise every five years or so to check in and say, “Is that story we're telling now relevant to the people we're trying to serve? Is it relevant to who we are at this moment? Have we become something different?” Even if you go through one of those exercises and don't change anything with the outwardly facing part of your brand, you will have validation that you're telling the right story. I think that's a really important exercise to do. I would say if you look at great brands in the for-profit world, like Coca-Cola for example, their core brand promise has always been about happiness. But every once in a while, they will update their advertising. “We'd like to teach the world to sing,” or “Open a Coke and a smile,” or “Happiness.” The fundamentals are there, but there is a bit of a refresh. People get excited about the refresh. People pay attention to brand refreshes or rebranding. It's a great opportunity to get out in front of your targets and your donors and say, “Let us tell you what's new. You might have noticed we made some changes. It's not because we just needed cosmetic changes, but our vision is evolving. We wanted the brand to reflect that vision.” Hugh: We've talked around these terms. Let's clarify. You've used the phrase “brand promise” a few times. There is a brand image, brand identity, brand promise. There are different facets. How do you segment the different parts of a brand? Julie: Your brand identity is everything. It's the way you show up, the way you present yourself to the world, not just in your logo and website, but in the way your people behave, etc. I look at it as a house. The brand promise is the roof. That is the main thing you stand for. There is a diagram in my book of the roof of a house. That is what you enable. If you look at Nike, for example, they sell sneakers, but their brand promise is “Just do it.” Supporting that roof, you have three brand pillars. Those are your values. Why should I believe that you're someone who can help me just do it? You have three pillars that support that. Hugh: When we're doing strategy, we nail down the problem we're solving. Why do we exist? What is our solution? What is our unique value proposition? What do we do that's different from others? Is that the building block to a brand? How does that fit into the branding that you do? Julie: Yeah, I think your unique value proposition is your brand twist. That is your brand promise. When I do it, I like to make them succinct and easy to remember. I'm not a big believer in mission, vision, values, 10 layers of the brand. When I do it, I answer four questions. The first is “Who are we trying to serve?” and dig into that psychographic. What are we promising them? That is your brand promise or your unique value proposition. Why should they believe us? That is your brand values. Who, what, why? The last question I answer is how, how do I bring it to life? What is my website? What is my tagline? What is the way I dress? What are the cuts of people I hire? One of the biggest mistakes I see for nonprofits and for-profits is they say, “We want to update our website.” If you are creating a new nonprofit, they are creating a new website. They go right to the how, how are we going to bring this to life? But they don't do the who, what, and why. They don't have a strategy. They spend hours and hours on versions of websites and logos, and they waste a ton of money. They think they'll just know it when I see it. It's not a great way to create a brand. You have to have a strategy. Once you have a strategy, the execution is actually pretty easy. Hugh: That's so common. Russ and I see that a lot. We had David Corbin on here a while back. David has a book called Brand Slaughter. We have seen that happen with another airline; we won't mention their name, but their initials are United. That one person destroyed the brand. It's happened a few times. But there are other companies where one person acted in a way that violated the way the company wanted to represent their value proposition and brand identity. What we do, we do values and principles. Part of that is how do we behave in the culture? How do we make decisions? Talk a minute about taking this brand promise we have and how to get people who are volunteers, board members, committee members represent that brand. We can violate that brand with our behavior, can't we? Julie: Yeah. You asked me what I learned from Richard Branson. That's the second biggest lesson besides taking chances. Your employees are the ambassadors of your brand. They bring the brand to life in their behavior. I do a lot of internal brand activation, meaning I train employees on the brand. I train them how to behave based on the brand. If our brand stands for teamwork, we actually look at all of our systems and evaluate where we are acting as a team and where we are breaking down. I had one client who was standing for teamwork, but we realized their office had an open plan with lots of cubicles. There were no nameplates. Somebody new to the team, it was taking them months to learn everybody's name. That's not a way to create a team. They'd see each other in the cafeteria, and they were embarrassed because they didn't know each other's names. Something as little as that. Definitely hiring. I use my brand values, even if I am hiring an intern. I ask them questions. Tell me a time that you twisted. Tell me about a time that you solved a problem from a different angle. Hiring, training, and rewarding on brand. Don't keep your brand values in a notebook somewhere. People will start really paying attention to them if they know their compensation or advancement is tied to them. Hugh: I just remembered when I was in high school, the twist was a dance. Russell, rescue me, will you? Russell: Thank god for the power of good video editors and sound editors. The first couple of months, I was co-hosting. This is Hugh, and old what's-his-name in Colorado somewhere. But it's important for people in the organization to have all the tools. If your organization is firing on all cylinders, even the person that comes in and sweeps the floor at night can talk to you about what that organization does and how it works. We have had good discussions. The brands that stick out in our minds are large, a lot of them larger than life. A lot of small nonprofits are resource-starved. They are listening to this, thinking, this is all well and good if you have 100 grand to throw at your marketing. But if you are like us, you're small and don't have a lot of resources, how do we build a brand? How do we bring this about with limited resources? Julie: Having a strong brand is even more important if you have limited resources. If you have limited resources, you can't afford to have things that don't tell a really tight story. I work with a lot of small businesses and nonprofits, 1-3-people sized companies. We spend that time on the brand promise and the brand pillars because that allows you to use every tool in the toolbox to tell the same story. Branding is harder, but more important, when you're smaller. It allows everything to work together. When I worked at Virgin, we actually spent way less than all of our competition on advertising. Way less. Virgin Atlantic spends way less than British Airways. But those ads would stand out, and they would create a loyal following. They would punch above their weight because they were very clear about who they were going after. The twist was very clear. What was different about the experience was very clear. Russell: What are some of the tools as a bare minimum that someone in the nonprofit should have to be able to talk about their organization in a compelling way? Are there one or two tools that you would say are absolutely essential? How important is it that these are simple and easy to use? Julie: I think your website is probably the biggest tool. For good or for bad, people come in, even if they are going to meet you in person, they will look at your website. Your brand walks in the room for you, and it sticks around after you're gone. I think having a smaller website, one or two pages, that are just super clear and really visually engaging, is important. The same thing for business cards. As you said, a confused mind doesn't remember anything. Keep it really simple, really streamlined. Your website, your business card, and your presentation. You can do a lot with live presentations. But talk on your elevator pitch. Have your elevator pitch be concise. Help people understand what you do in three floors, not in 35 floors. That comes from being clear on your brand and practicing it. I was telling Hugh at the beginning that I have done a lot of work lately with personal branding. I am teaching a class at Stanford with Tyra Banks who has built a huge personal brand as an entrepreneur and model. I think that nonprofit leaders need to embody their personal brands, and show up as their brands, whether that is wearing a color, a tie, or a pin. Don't go around saying your nonprofit is caring or innovative and not acting that way. One reason Richard Branson has been so successful is his business brand is about shaking things up, but his personal brand is about shaking things up. He spends a lot of time- he is the most followed executive on Twitter. He tweets about business and also life. He is frustrated about things, and is finding new ways to solve old problems. Russell: I follow Richard Branson on LinkedIn. He has a lot of interesting things to say. A lot of people think about them. I think most of us have interesting things to say. A lot of people who may not be clear on how interesting the stuff they have to say is, or how to put it together. We talked about the people of stories. How do you work with people who are having difficulty finding their voice, what it is they stand for, what it is they want to communicate? Julie: The first thing I do is offer brand health checks. These are the best place to start. You wouldn't go into your doctor and say, hey, help me fix everything. You go in once a year and say, “These are the things I feel good about. Here are some of the things I think need attention.” We offer these brand health checks through the website. What we do is spend some time asking you some questions. We look at your materials, whether it is your LinkedIn profile or your website. We will triage: What are the areas you need to look at? Maybe your brand promise is pretty good, but you are not expressing it right. Maybe your targeting is all over the place. Maybe you need to use social media in a slightly different way, or colors in a slightly different way. These brand health checks are a great place to start. Hugh: In your book, you talk about brand blinders. Can you say more about that? Julie: Sure. Those are when you are looking in your category and not outside of your category for inspiration. Taking off your brand blinders means that you are looking beyond your segment to the larger world for inspiration. Hugh: We want to make sure you highlight this offer. You say you work with a lot of individuals on personal branding, small businesses, and nonprofits. We have probably a mixture of all of those that follow us and listen to us and watch this. Where do they go first off for this brand checkup? Julie: We have two diagnostic products. One is a brand health check. That is 60 minutes. That is if you want to talk about your overall nonprofit. Go to BrandTwist.com. Get Started. Brand Health Check. If you are interested just in your personal brand, we have a personal brand plan call. That is half an hour. That is very similar, but we will ask you more personal questions. That is great for people who want help with their leadership, who are changing careers, who are job seekers. We talk a lot to recent graduates who want to get into the nonprofit or another space. That is for people who want to focus on their personal brand. But all roads lead to BrandTwist.com. We will have a special promotion for your listeners. Hugh: You are? Behind your head, it says Brand School. What is that? Julie: Brand School is our online school that we offer a few times a year for small businesses and nonprofits. It's a 10-week program. We get you all of the consulting that a big company would get, but we do it in groups of 10-12 students at a time. More heavy lifting on your side. It becomes more affordable and also creates a community of entrepreneurs. Hugh: Do you have a blog or podcast or anything people can tune into to get more of Julie? Julie: Yeah. If you go to BrandTwist.com, we have a blog that we update all the time. I am pretty active on Twitter as well. @JCottin on Twitter. You can Google Twist. We have good branding. There is lots of information that comes up. Hugh: Yay. Russell, why don't you have another question? He's got one cooking, I'm sure. Russell: All those wrinkles in my forehead are just common creases. They don't have any particular significance. For those of you who are watching this now, there is a branding twist school coming up. A semester in a couple weeks. If this is something of interest to you, look at it. One of the things I saw as I was looking through this website, which has a wealth of information, there were some things we didn't talk about. Julie says there are three mission-critical reasons why you should have a twist. I'd like for her to share those if she could. Julie: The first is a twist will help you stand out. I think it's really hard to stand out today in the competition. The second is bringing a twist to your business means you will have more fun. It's hard work. We should be having fun and doing things differently. I would say the third thing is think about your personal twist. Many of us will change careers or work for different nonprofits over the course of our lives. Paying attention to your personal and professional twists will always serve you. A lot of us are serial entrepreneurs or serial nonprofit professionals. You want to build not just a reputation for your nonprofit, but also your own reputation. Hugh: We talked about the symphony a little bit. There is a composite here. Maybe that's the wrong word. But you have the symphony, which needs a brand. We have 750 orchestras in this country. I bet you most of them want to play classics, so they want people to come. They complain they are not attracting millennials at all. There is a real interest in millennials for authentic historical church and culture. The orchestra has its identity, but the conductor also has an identity. That is the person that shapes the sound of the orchestra and is the figurehead for the orchestra, even though there is a huge culture. Is that a contrast or a conflict? Is there a synergy? There are lots of examples, but I tend to know a little bit about this one. Julie: I think there should be a synergy. I think it's great that you have an organization that has its identity. They don't have to be identical, but there should be a synergy between the face of the organization and the group. The other thing I would say is that orchestra who is looking to attract millennials, this is a great example. Take off your brand blinders. Stop looking at what other orchestras are doing. Look at brands that are attracting millennials. Twist those lessons. Hugh: Whoa. What do you think of that, Russ? Russell: I think that she is absolutely spot-on. Only Virgin Airways can be Virgin Airways. Everybody can't be exactly the same. When you are focused on what everybody else is doing, you are probably leaving your own unique talents on the table. It helps to go through a process. We lead people through a process with our own success framework, and brand twisting will help you do that as well. It's looking through that unique lens of what you bring to the table. Hugh: Our SynerVision brand is based on creating synergy through the common vision. We know who we are. We know where we're going. We know who we want to influence. It not only builds the synergy on our team, but it's building the synergistic interaction with our audience, our supporters. *Sponsor message from SynerVision's Community for Community Builders* We are going to let Julie give you a final thought or challenge or tip as we close out this really helpful interview. Julie, thank you for such great information. Julie: My pleasure. I would say if you feel that your brand isn't as healthy as it should be because you should build the brand that your business deserves, then I'd love to talk to anybody listening to this. You can go to BrandTwist.com and look at our brand health check or personal brand plan. If you put in the code SVLF, then you will get 15% off any of our products, and you will go to the top of the queue in getting something scheduled. I would love to check up your health and support your community however I can. My final thought is your brand is your business, whether your business is for-profit or nonprofit. You can't separate the two. You can't say, I'm working on building the business over here, and the brand over there. Strong brands are connected. Your brand is your business. Make it a priority. Russell: Great. If you haven't visited this website, go check it out. BrandTwist.com. There are cool tools here. Don't think you have to trip over half a million dollars to do something about your brand. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange Part 2 2019   provide highlights from interviews over the past few months. Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership.  Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past six months of episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Improving Donor Relations: Getting The Right Message To The Right People With The Right RhythmInterview with Wordsprint CEO Bill Gilmer Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hey, folks, it's Hugh Ballou. Another chapter of The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell David Dennis, last week you and I were in Florida. It's a good thing we're not there this week. Russell Dennis: Yes, it's a bit windy down there now. I'm hoping everyone is okay. It's looking like the storm is turning off and it's not going as far inland as they initially thought. Hopefully all of our friends and the wonderful people down at Kaiser who made us feel so welcome are okay. Hugh: It's called a hurricane, but it's really a slowcane. It's going slowly through there. Welcome folks to this episode. We have a special guest today, Bill Gilmer. He has been on the ride with us ever since we started the magazine. I think over five years ago. Bill Gilmer, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Bill Gilmer: Thanks. Glad to be here. Unlike Russell, I am in chillier Blacksburg, Virginia. No hurricane on my horizon, I don't think. Hugh: Yeah, we just are down the road in Lynchburg. Bill, we ask our guests to say a little bit about themselves. Some background. Why is it you're doing this important work you're doing today? Bill: My background, I used to be a printer. I used to run a printing company. Over the years, we discovered that most of the work we were doing was for nonprofits. Over the years, we started tracking response rates on donor relation campaigns. We have put together a system of marketing to donors, and that's what we do every day. Help folks build relationships with their donor base. Hugh: You've been working with SynerVision five or six years ago. Let's declare up front that Wordsprint, Bill's company, is a sponsor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine and SynerVision's work in general. We talk about you often on these podcasts. It's a pleasure to have you here live and in person. This is not an infomercial for Wordsprint, but we know the value of your work. We talk about the 30/30/30. That's the secret for success. Just to be clear, people can do this on their own. They don't need you. But if they want to do it the very best way possible, you know how to do that. I want to be clear on that. Explain what this 30/30/30/10 is all about. Bill: What we discovered, and this is lots of data, we started tracking this back in the early 2000s. I think we're up to 20 million touches, 15,000 campaigns. What we discovered is that there are three things that matter. It's our three-bit marketing system. There are three things that matter when it comes to donor relations. The first is having the right message. The second is getting that right message to the right people. The third is getting the right message to the right people with the right rhythm. We help clients focus their message, stay consistent with their message, stay on message. We help them with the right people by helping with database cleansing, database acquisition, all kinds of demographics and predictive analytics. But most importantly, we have developed a system for staying consistent and rhythmic with your donor touches. We've observed through all our data that is where many nonprofits fail. It's the rhythm and consistency. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm. That's the 30/30/30. Hugh: What do you say to people who say, “I've tried mailing. It didn't work. We tried sending out a mailing at the end of the year, and we got a little bit of money, but it doesn't work, Bill.” Bill: I tell them that I tried dieting once last year, and it didn't work either. Hugh: I tried working out once, and it didn't work either. Bill: I tried to exercise once, and it didn't work. It really is like diet or exercise or physical therapy. These are things that work if you implement them rhythmically. It's not a quick fix. Rhythm doesn't become rhythm right away. It needs a few cycles. In fact, on average, for most of our clients, it's really in the third year of repeated rhythmic touches that the donations start to snowball, that it really begins to build. This is not a showhorse thing. This is drip marketing, if you will. But it works. Hugh: It works. I've seen it work. Dig a little deeper into the right person and the right message. I want to know more about how I can do this. Bill: The right message, the first pillar, is your brand. It's who you are. It's why you go to work every day. It's your mission. It's your elevator speech. What we found that nonprofits who stay on message, who stay true to themselves about who they are, are the ones more successful over time as opposed to those who try to be all things to all people or try to repackage it or try to rebrand every year. I'm not saying you can't rebrand, but you need to do so carefully. The right message is mainly a matter of consistency and articulating it clearly. Having the right taglines, having the right logo, having the right paragraphs. The right people gets more complicated. It is all about relationships. We find that the nonprofits who succeed are those who create a database culture, where they take those relationships and get them into the database that everyone in the organization is empowered to update. Your best donors are the people you know. People donate to people. People donate to you because they trust you to fulfill your mission. It's the people you know, the people you run into, the people who come to your open house. These are the best potential donors. The organizations who know how to capture that and bring them into their database so they get rhythmic touches and notifications are the ones who succeed. You can also acquire data. We do a lot of this. Using some fancy predictive analytics, we can acquire names of people who are more likely to donate to your cause than others. That is almost a whole topic in itself. Hugh: Talk a little bit about that. We constantly run across people who say, “I don't know anybody.” If we do have people who are in nonprofits that maybe they get donations, but they don't have a donor management program per se, or they work with a number of early stage. Talk a bit about how you acquire names legally. Is there a magic database program that I can use to connect them with? Bill: It's all legal. There are about six or seven big players in this game called compilers. These are companies who do nothing but purchase, massage, and resell databases. You've heard of some of them. Dunne & Bradstreet does this mostly with businesses. Experian. Equifax, the one that had the big data breach. InfoUSA. There are others. There are literally thousands of brokers and people who take the information from these larger players and resell it to folks like us and you. Demographics are available. We as a society click a lot. We are on our computers and are clicking. We go to Amazon. We read the paragraph. We look at another book. We order this. We fill out a warranty card. We subscribe to a magazine. We join a club. All of those are data transactions that are public and can be sold and resold. The hard demographics have always been there, things like the value of your home, the car you drive. That's public information. But these compilers gather so many data points on all of us as consumers that they are able with artificial intelligence help to see patterns and build logorhythms. They know if you've done this and this and this, then you are more likely to support a nonprofit that focuses on children and especially disabled children. That is how detailed it can get. Or you are more likely to support a local nonprofit that works in the music arts, like an orchestra or a symphony. We call this predictive analytics. This is data that indicates the likelihood of someone supporting your cause. This has gotten way better than it even was six months ago. What we usually do—and Hugh, you have had some recent experience with this with one of your organizations—when we do a database acquisition like this, we then compare it to the organization's existing donor database. If the predictive analytics have been accurate, there will be considerable overlap. Your organization had 3,000 names. We bought another 700-800. Three years ago, you'd expect 10-12 of those to be an overlap. We had a 250-name overlap in that case. Those analytics were extremely accurate. These are folks not just demographically speaking but in terms of propensity are more likely to support your cause. You still have to touch them and touch them rhythmically. That is where the rhythm thing comes in. That is where you need to establish a system of cadent touches over the course of several cycles. At the end of the second or the beginning of the third year, that is where you will start to see donations come in, and it will start to snowball over time. Hugh: When you are talking about clicking, we're talking about mail in the U.S. We are not talking about email with our computer. Bill: I don't think I caught the last part of your question. In terms of what we advise for donor relations, it's a combination of mailing and emailing. Russell: It's so systematic to your approach to keeping and maintaining donors. Especially small nonprofits will be overwhelmed when they start thinking about all this data, and maybe a little confused as to what a touchpoint is. Lots of folks like me get lots of mail and email from a lot of the same folks. Maybe they think, “Oh, I don't want to be this person who is bombarding something with emails a day.” When you talk in terms of touches, there are certain things you are accomplishing with each touch. Let's take a generic year or quarter and talk about what touchpoints there are and the methods behind them. Bill: Let me give you a common example of a mid-sized local nonprofit. Let's say they have 10-12 staff. On average, our clients would have several touches. They would probably have one event every year. In the spring, they will do a luncheon where they talk about their cause and ask people for money while they are there. They might have a monthly blog. The first Monday of every month, they put something out on social media. They might have a fall appeal mailing. Here is where they write a letter. “Dear Dr. Smith, Here is what we do. Please give us money.” If they are smart, they will have that appeal mailing coupled with an auto trigger email, where the day after Dr. Smith gets the letter, he gets an automatic email that says, “Hey Dr. Smith, did you get our letter yesterday? I bet you trashed it, didn't ya? You can still click here to support our cause.” Once in the winter and once in the summer, they will do an e-newsletter. They are sending out information two or three times a year. Information only. They are asking for money in a hard ask twice a year. In the example I gave, once with a mailer/email and once with an event. Something like that. We have some clients who do mailers and ask for money every month. We have others who do it once a year with a hard mailing. What we don't have is much success with straight email solicitation. People do like the convenience of donating online, but they don't trust it unless it has something based in the physical world, whether that's a letter they got and threw away, then they get the mail. They will trust it a lot more because they have the mail piece. They go to an open house, and they then trust the email because they associate it with the real-life physical experience they had. That would be typical. A hard ask twice a year, information only two or three times, and maybe something monthly on social media. What we find does not work is the single big blast. So many people want to put all their eggs into one basket. We will have this big shindig and send out 200,000 invitations. It doesn't do that well. It is better to touch 200 people rhythmically than 200,000 in a blast. Is that helpful? Russell: The key is to spread these over with ask, non-ask. Give them information about the programs they were talking about in the newsletter. How the dollars are impacting, how many people were served, what the shift is. Bill: Impact is huge. Russell: If we're talking about contacting 200 people at a time, this probably means for a medium-sized nonprofit they are sending stuff out weekly to different donors.   Bill: Most of our clients, an average database for our clients is in the range of 2,000-10,000 donors. We often do mailings of 3,000. Sometimes we do 100,000. On average, let's say 5,000. Most of our clients would do one or two mailings a year. A fall appeal and a spring appeal. In lieu of the spring appeal, sometimes they would do a spring event. The other touches, the social media and the e-newsletter when they are not asking are information only. That would be a balanced mix. Let me get to another key point. This is the magic right here. Rhythm is important. Understanding the rhythm that your clients respond to. Most of you know this. Most nonprofit organizations have a pretty good understanding of how often their donors and potential donors want to be asked. Once a year, twice a year, once a month sometimes. The organization usually knows what the rhythm should be. Rhythm is so important that you sustain it over the years that our biggest piece of advice is adjust the scale to match your budget so that you can sustain the rhythm. We actually help clients with spreadsheets so it says we want to mail to 20,000 people twice a year. The postage alone exceeds your budget. You can't do that. “Let's try it one time.” Don't do it. Adjust that scale. If you can't afford the postage of 20,000 appeal letters, can you do 10,000? No. 5,000? You play with that spreadsheet and settle on we can sustain 2,500 twice a year. That's the amount you go with. You have this pool of 10,000. How do you target down to the 2,500? That's how you do predictive analytics. Mail to the 2,500 who are most likely to donate to your cause. It's a budget thing. You adjust your scale to match your budget so you can sustain that rhythm because if you sustain the rhythm through several cycles, it works. This is based on data of what actually works, not what makes you feel or look good, but did the donations come rolling in. Russell: What is the best path to help a new organization or client when they come to you? They may have some stuff they kept on Excel, but they don't necessarily have a donor database or CRM. They looked at these things and thought they were hard to use. They know they need to get better information. Talk about that process where you help them look at the most important factors and how to organize that data and how you guide them to build that so they get effective data from what they are collecting. Bill: There are lots of databases out there as you know. We deal with lots of them. People are constantly asking us which one is the best. All I can honestly say is the best one is the one that someone in your organization is willing to dive into. The right operator, any of these databases can sing. They really can. Some of our biggest clients use Salesforce for their nonprofit data. There is a whole spectrum. It's not so much which CRM system you use. It's do you have someone and a back-up or two who know how to use it? If you have no money and can't do anything, use Excel. It's not so much what you use as how you use it. We can assist. We understand a lot of the databases. We love working with Excel in terms of immediate back-and-forth with our clients. They will export their database to a CSV or Excel file, and we will update the addresses and run through a deceased person's filter. Make sure that list is scrubbed and clean. But we do all that from Excel. Russell: It's a robust program. Microsoft itself. What trips people up more than anything else is understanding what are the most important pieces for me to collect, and then once I collect all of these, what is the best way to categorize or shift my people around or look at now I have it, how do I use it? Bill: This leads into something new we have been doing within the last couple of years. Let's say you inherit a nonprofit. You come in as the new executive director. There has been some staff turnover, and you have three or four huge Excel files with all your donors. You don't really know your donors. You have some record of who gave when, but you don't know why the other people are in there. Are they good prospects? We can actually take that database, those Excel files, do all the usual stuff, combine, de-dupe, update the addresses, make sure they aren't deceased. Then we do something called data append. We send that file—let's say you have 3,000 names but you only know who 50 are—confidentially to some of these national compilers. They can run it versus their data banks and come back with demographic data filled in where you get age, education level, the value of the home, household income, gender, political persuasion, all sorts of things you can add back to that list. That can be a target. You can say, “Listen, these 300 people don't match the profile of our donors. I don't see why we're mailing to them. They haven't given to us in five years. Let's drop them. But these 400 look really good. They match the profile. They are active in the community. Let's keep them on our list.” We call it scoring data or modeling data. There are all kinds of things like that. Russell: There are so many nuances to relating to donors. They come from different backgrounds, education levels, parts of the country. They are in different age groups. When people look at this and say, “I have a lot of different people,” what is the best way for me to organize these groups? What are their touchpoints that are more effective for some groups than others? How do we go about looking at that? Bill: One thing I haven't talked about yet is what channel you use. Is this a demographic that will respond to a Facebook post or a physical newsletter or an e-newsletter? You can ask them. That's a good question. “Would you prefer to receive this?” Make some age and generation assumptions. Millennials actually like direct mail more than you think. Some older folks don't like it as much as you think. The one thing we do advise people to do is do what we call a scattergraph. That's where you sit around the table brainstorming and make a graph of your best donors in terms of age, income level, value of home, education level, geography. As you start graphing this, you will have people all over that graph. You will have young kids who donate to your cause. You have great-grandfathers. You have uneducated and educated. But there will be, the more you plot those dots on your graph, a cluster in the middle. That is your sweet spot. If you want to go after and acquire more donors, acquire more who match those demographics. Add those predictive analytics. It's good to have a profile of who is our sweet spot donor, and how many. Russell: Very helpful. When you start working with an organization, what type of organization are you most effective at helping? What are some of the things that the organization can do that will help you get them results a little faster? Bill: That's a great question, Russell. We find that most nonprofits are pretty good at the first 30%, the message. Nonprofits know most well why they do what they do. It's their passion. It's why they go to work. They usually have that part nailed down. They have that elevator speech. You can't shut them up. They got the message. We find that we can help a lot with the rhythm. We can build these Excel sheets. We can send reminder notifications. “Make sure your blog is written. It's due tomorrow.” “Your e-newsletter should launch next week.” We send reminders that keep them on track, like how a FitBit reminds you to hop up and walk around. These notifications keep you on track. The one that is hardest is the data. It's relationships. We don't know the people in their database, but they do. They know more of them than not. Say the thing in the organization could do is the best results is to go through their database with as many constituents involved as possible: your volunteers, your staff, your key donors. Break it up into small bits, and do a little bit at a time. Try to understand who your donors are. That would probably be the best. Leverage your board. Every board member should have a gun to their head that says, “Who do you know who might donate to your cause? Give us their names.” Leverage conversations. Your whole staff should be encouraged. You have a new administrative assistant who is helping you with this. She bumps into someone at the grocery store who says, “Hey Sally, I haven't seen you in a long time. What are you doing?” “I'm working at Habitat for Humanity now. We are doing this and this.” That person says, “Wow, that sounds interesting. Tell me more.” Sally needs to know to come back and get that information in the database. That person she just bumped into in the grocery store is a better prospect than any of these purchased names we are talking about. Everyone in the organization from the board to the staff to the volunteers should realize it is their personal relationships that lead to the best database. Russell: It's a warm referral that is good. One of the things that I've seen information on and talked to people about in having people on your team, you want to have good tools for them to use to go out and talk about your organization. If you can take a few minutes, talk about some of the tools, printed tools, the toolkits that you make the board members and volunteers and people with information on the organization, how they organize that, and the tools they have to talk about the organization in the best way. Bill: Funny you should ask. We just worked up some handout cards as old-fashioned as that sounds, a little bigger than a business card. The organization calls them the “Get Involved” cards. On one size is the logo and a truncated, poignant abbreviation of the mission. The back features three ways to get involved. You can go to this website and do this. You can become a volunteer and do this. You can call this number and do this. They give these cards to everyone on staff, their volunteers, and encourage them when you are in the grocery store and your old roommate comes up to talk to you, you give them one of the cards. Something as simple as that. Russell: It's important to have those pieces. Is there a way you have people who have these tools, a simple system for them to keep track of how many people are coming? How do you help them document the effectiveness of these tools? Bill: We haven't done a lot of that. The organizations themselves usually keep a database of how many cards did you hand out, and did you talk about it? Ideally you are getting some address/city/state/zip/phone number/email into your database from that encounter. That's the ideal. When you bump into the old roommate in the grocery store, you ask for a business card or a text so I can keep in touch with you. “I'd like to send some information about XYZ charity.” The ones I know do this on a regular basis have weekly staff meetings and go over contacts. It's the most important thing. You're an ambassador for your charity. It's those contacts. People give to people. I know you think they give to your organization because you do all this good. They give because they know and trust you to carry out that mission. It's all about trust. Hugh: Underlying that is relationship building. I can't tell you how many nonprofits out there get a check and wait until next year to ask for another check. I don't know what the average is, but 70% of most nonprofits get the bulk of their money from donors. There is a large percentage. Bill: Yeah, we really do need to take care of our donors better. We recommend the pyramid where you take your database and have your top donors at the top. At some point, you draw that line where everyone above this level of giving gets the personal visit from the executive director or the personal phone call or the three phone calls a year, whatever that appropriate nurturing touch is. The ones at the bottom get a thank-you card. The top people, your key donors, need to be acknowledged, need to be thanked. They need the recognition. You can't do that with all 3,000 names, but you can do it with the top 50. We recommend that pyramid approach. Hugh: It's the old Pareto principle, the 80/20 rule. 80% of your money comes from 20% of your people. The leader is challenged to be able to spend enough time with too many people. My rule of thumb is what you said. You want to spend individual time with your 20%, but you want to stay in touch with the other 80%. Your program is a good way to do that. Bill: We slice and dice it even further. I'll give you an example. They won't mind me talking about them. It's a local arts nonprofit that does theater and plays. They have a huge donor database. The ones at the very top get the personal visit, the handwritten note, the crème de la crème. The next hunk of several thousand records gets variable data printed communication. Variable data has a salutation, “Dear Sam and Jackie.” This communication flips out pictures of the last show they went to. It's highly personalized because they have scrubbed the data that far down that they trust it and know it's accurate. Variable data personalization works as long as it's accurate. The bottom part of the pyramid gets the “Dear friend of XYZ Theater.” The bottom part of it is not personalized because they simply don't have the resources to scrub their data all the way down and make their salutations are correct and other variable data is accurate. Russell: This is important as far as it's managing your budget. You're getting the most bang for the buck and where a lot of people don't think they have money to spend, they may find that after going through and working with someone like you, they may be able to find where they can actually spend the same dollars and get more bang for the buck. When you're working with an organization, sometimes they have board members or volunteers or different people participating in the process. How important is training for all of these key people? What are some of the most important things for you to cover when you're training them? Bill: Let me do a tangent because something you said reminded me of something. This is back in the early 2000s, 2006/2007, right in there. We had not developed our full-blown three-bit marketing system. We were beginning to gather the data and understand that the rhythmic touching is what's important. I ended up being the chair of a small nonprofit. It was a private school trying to get off the ground in the middle of nowhere, southwest Virginia. We didn't have the money to hire my company. We were struggling. We had about 300 names of donors and potential donors. We had 10 board members. 300 names, 10 board members. What a coincidence. Here's what we did. We wrote the letter. We took it to the board meeting and said, “Okay, Sam, you're on the board. You're responsible for these 30 potential people. You make copies of the letter, sneak them into church, and pay the postage. That's why you're on the board.” We assigned each board member 30 records from that database. As an organization, we didn't spend any money. We leveraged our board. They each had to make a few copies and come up with 30 first-class stamps. We did that rhythmically. We did that appeal mail three times a year. By the third year, what do you know? We could afford to have someone else do all this. That was definitely training board members to get in the trenches. Hugh talks about this all the time. The importance of an energized and dedicated board is, I can't say enough about it. That is so critical to have in a thriving nonprofit. Russell: That it is. It's all about the people who you have, who support you, who are in your organization. Your team is your secret sauce. That's where you grow and prosper and create more impact in the lives of others. Knowing how to reach out to them and what really resonates with them is very important. Having that system and having the tools to get them there. The one thing we haven't really touched on is with donors, you have three phases. You're acquiring them. Then at some point, as they're sticking with you, you want them to grow, and you want them to stay. There are three pieces to that. If you would, talk a bit about some of the best ways to move them through that process. How do you acquire them? What are some key tips for that? What are some things that will help you grow them? What are some of the most important things to keep them sticking with you? Bill: The acquisition part we talked about a bit. The best way is those personal relationships, those personal contacts. The second best way would be doing some data acquisition. You can do it yourself; you don't have to go through a company like mine. Google “how to acquire donors,” and plenty of places will crop up that will sell you names. That is the acquisition part. The rhythm means a lot here. The rhythmic touch is how you keep them and how you make them poised to grow. Usually, it's in the second or third year that you get the first donation from a brand new contact. To do that, you need to do those rhythmic touches. This is not an overnight success thing. This is in it for the long haul. It's rare, not unheard of, but rare for someone to move from a $50-per-cycle level to a $5,000-level without something happening. That something could be they come to an event, they hear a speaker, they get a visit from a board member, they get a visit from an executive director. To get that kind of nurturing increase takes something. It's rare that someone would jump from $40 to $500 or $5,000 through repeated passive asks. I think one of the best, it doesn't fit every nonprofit, is to have that annual luncheon where the board members are assigned to fill tables. When they invite people, they let them know, “We will do a presentation. We will ask to give you some money. You don't have to, but there will be an ask. We'd really love to have you.” You get people in the room and have dynamic speakers. You have some of the people you serve. It depends on what kind of nonprofit you have. You do things that give people a real glimpse into how you make the world a better place. that has been known to move people from the $50 level to the $500 level or $5,000 level. Russell: Well-executed non-ask events are critical, too. Just to let people know, “Hey, we're good stewards of your money.” There's some magic about walking them around where they can see where it is people are actually out there in the trenches doing good work. Speaking to some of the things you can acquire and move these services out of the community so they get a working understanding. That growth piece, getting them and growing them, is your lifetime value of a customer for lack of a better way to put it. That takes time. To grow them, you have to keep them. What are the two most important tools? Bill: There are some simple things you can do. You need to thank them for their gifts. The pyramid, the top ones should get a personal visit or phone call. At the bottom, maybe it's a handwritten thank-you note. More and more of our clients are doing the board pizza party, where they get their board together and some phones. Around dinnertime, they serve the board pizza, and they call the top donors. They do it around dinnertime so a lot of people don't answer the phone. But that's fine. You leave a message. The board member says, “Hey, Dr. Smith. I want to thank you and your wife for your $500 gift to our organization. We really appreciate it. It helps us do this, this, and this.” That donor will remember that. That donor will say, “Hey, a board member called me.” That's a nice little thing to do, and to touch the top donors that way. The ones at the really top, the big players, probably need the thank you from the chair of the board and the executive director. You can hit a lot of those mid donors with a call from a board member. Think about the donations you make. How often do you get a phone call of thanks? Not many. Maybe I'm not donating enough. Russell: It's always good. It's just common courtesy. If you're in a supermarket, someone holds the door. Saying thank you to people is a reflex. But somehow, it seems like from some of the statistics I've seen, it's one of the more common mistakes that people make. They don't take that time to say thank you. What are a couple other really common mistakes that people make that are just quick and easy to fix? Bill: Accurate data is really big. If you say “Dear Sam,” and the name isn't Sam, that's not good. You've got to be very careful with variable data and personalization. Personalization gone awry does more damage than it does good. One thing we've been doing more and more, the post office has gotten better with the deceased persons filter. You try to cut out saying, “Dear John and Sally” when John passed away a year ago. That's an easy mistake to fix. Run the data through the filter. Don't mail to dead people if at all possible. Data cleanliness is a common thing. Not thanking is the biggest thing. You mentioned something earlier. Every touch can't be an ask. It really should be more information only touches than there are ask touches. The top donors should get a report at the end of the year, maybe a few months after. Not a fancy annual report, but a sheet of, “Here's what your donation allowed us to do.” You can do these infographic looks. You can really show people what you've done. We have a client now that has this neat system. They do three newsletters a year. They have an elderly donor base. These are physical newsletters. Because newsletters are more expensive, they've gone to a news postcard. They send out these jumbo postcards three times a year. Short bullet point articles that show their impact. Every one of those short articles, it's just bullet points and headlines. People don't read anymore. There is a link to a website you can go to if you want more information. They do this three times a year. In the fourth quarter, they ask. They push out information on a 3:1 ratio with their ask. We recommend something like that. 2:1, 3:1, something like that, so people don't think, “Good grief. XYZ charity is always asking for money.” It has to be, “Here's the good things we're doing.” Your social media should be that. Your social media personally I don't think should ask for money. I think social media should be, “Look what we're doing. Celebrate with us.” Russell: It would certainly be a place to capture your benefactors, the clients online and talk about what's going on. Some of the sites that the work is being done on, it's almost like the news medium. When someone hears their name mentioned on social media, you get a thousand followers. Whoa, they're talking about me. This thing has 1,000 views and 10,000 followers. “Hey, maybe I need to send them another check. They need to get my good side next time.” Hugh: That's part of the story. Telling a story, you have relationships. There are people who want to be in the picture with a big check. I don't think we think about the amount of stories we need to be telling because we are doing a lot of good work. We don't really tell people. In fact, social media is social. We are supposed to engage. I see all too often, “Buy this. Do that.” And there is no attempt at a relationship. That is what I'm hearing you saying. In our program, we are building relationships. We are maintaining relationships. People give to people. That is the biggest sound bite. People give to people, not to organizations. Bill: I agree. It's all about relationships. It's all about telling your story. That's what relationships are. We as humans are people who have relationships with each other, and we tell stories to each other. It's the way you come home to your spouse and say, “Hey honey.” We love to tell stories. I think social media is great for this. You have these snippets and tell this vignette story of something your nonprofit did or something that you did. It's to build relationships. The best donor is the one that knows you. I keep coming back to this. You have a personal relationship with them. But you do it by stories. We recommend the hard ask appeal letter everyone does in the fall that it start off with just a three- to four-sentence story that is in a nutshell what you do. Then you make your ask. You take it to the next level. “There are so many kids like Johnny.” In the first paragraph, you tell Johnny's story. Stories mean a lot. Russell: You have really critical points in the year. A lot happens toward the end of the year around Giving Tuesday in the back end of the year. Are there some time periods during the course of the year that you believe nonprofits are leaving money on the table? Maybe there are times to reach out that might be more effective than people pay attention to. Bill: That's another great question. It's changing. It used to be I would always tell people to do their main appeal early to mid-November because we were told the stats said the most generous week of the year is the week leading up to Thanksgiving. Everybody is starting to feel festive, but they don't have worries about the credit card bills yet. We've also heard that summer is not a great time to ask because so many people are on vacation and will miss the appeal. I tell you though, people are so connected now. With tax law changes, the end of the year may not be as significant of a time as it has been. We are finding more and more of our clients are doing oddly timed appeals. It's just starting, so they haven't built a rhythm yet. We have clients who are doing a February appeal and a July appeal. Stay tuned. I'll have a better answer in three years when we get some data back on that. I really think that if you talk with your key constituents, talk to your board and staff and key donors, you'll know. You'll know when the appropriate time is to do your ask and your information only. Remember the point about you adjust the scale to fit the budget so you can sustain the rhythm. One thing I meant to mention is it's not just the financial budget. It's the budget of your time. Here is another common mistake. We see it probably most often with social media. You get all excited. You say, “I'm going to write a blog every week.” I'm going to post it out on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn. I don't know many executive directors who have the time to write a blog every week. If you do, more power to you. Our suggestion will be, Are you really? Let's be realistic about this. Adjust the scale to match the time budget. How much time do you have? Sustain the rhythm. We would counsel you down from once a week to the first Monday every month. If that's too much, if you can't stick with that, then once every month. Hugh: It's the regular rhythm that we heard about earlier, too. Speaking of time, we are almost at the top of the hour. Bill, you get the last word. If you have a thought or tip or challenge to give the audience. This has been a helpful interview. *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation* If you want to talk about how Bill's services look for you, go to Wordsprint.com. The regular mailing to your tribe makes a difference. Bill, Wordsprint.com is one of our main sponsors, so thank you for that. We talk about you often. You're leaving this interview. What is your challenge or parting thought for people? Bill: My parting thought would be it really is all about relationships. The piece of the puzzle that you or a director or a board member or your staff could do to help your organization the most is to work on those relationships and get that relationship into a database so they can get rhythmic touches. If anyone would like to chat with me about this, we do free consultations, no cost, no obligation, at Wordsprint.com. You can send me a message. I can talk in detail about your organization and things that would work for you. Our system of getting the right message to the right people does not mean you have to use us. You can use current partners. You can do it in-house yourself. It's the system that works. The right message to the right people with the right rhythm. Russell: Bill, thanks again for joining us. Thanks for all the support you give us here at SynerVision Leadership. You certainly make us look good. Folks, do yourself a favor, and have a talk with Bill and his team as to how you can grow donors, keep them, and build those relationships using the right tools by getting out there, sending the right message to the right people in the right rhythm. It needs to look good, but that is only 10%. And it will. Make sure you check out our magazine because it's a good-looking magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What are the Secrets to Scaling Your Nonprofit with Lauren Cohen (archive) Global entrepreneur and #1 bestselling author Lauren A. Cohenis an attorney licensed in both the U.S. and Canada. Lauren is an expert concierge immigration and business legal advisor boasting a stellar track record of success. Lauren has first-hand knowledge of the visa process, having herself immigrated from Canada in 2001, and later becoming an American citizen in 2012. In 2008, Lauren started e-Council Inc. an internationally-acclaimed company focused on providing concierge strategic full-service solutions for businesses seeking capital and foreign entrepreneurs seeking access to the U.S. market. In 2017, Lauren established Find My Silver Lining, a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to helping struggling single moms - and parents in general - to find their silver lining in a crowded world. Continuing in the tradition of sound strategic solutions, ScaleUPCheckUP is Lauren's newest initiative - an online risk assessment checkup tool for growing businesses in ScaleUP mode with the overriding mission of anticipating challenges before they happen. Designed in response to the challenges faced by so many entrepreneurs that simply do not understand the critical importance of proper professional guidance, and/or are afraid that the costs of protection are too high, ScaleUPCheckUP is poised to revolutionize the professional services industry and the way in which collaborative professional services are delivered. For more information go to https://www.scaleupcheckup.com Interview Transcript NPE Lauren Cohen Hugh Ballou: Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. My guest today has a fascinating background and a real passion for helping leaders in any kind of organization. We are going to be specific about scale-up check-up and how it is of value to those of us leading charitable organizations. We like to say a “for-purpose” organization. We have for-profit and for-purpose. If you would kindly tell us who is Lauren Cohen, a bit about your background and what led you to doing this particular initiative today. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Lauren. Lauren Cohen: Thank you. I will speak as loudly as I appropriately can without screaming. Hugh, it's a pleasure to be on your show and to know you. I am excited about our opportunities together. I am originally from Canada. I moved here in 2001 and became a citizen in 2012. I was doing immigration law outside the corporate transactional work internationally for seven years. I kept seeing these recurring themes among businesses who were seeking to raise capital and for entrepreneurs and businesses who were looking to come into the country. The recurring theme was they were really focused on sales and marketing and getting coaching and moving up the ladder and making money, but they weren't so focused on getting a strong foundation in place. The reality is that you can't really scale your business or often even stay in business if you don't scale up your business. In response to this recurring theme, I developed this online risk assessment tool which helps companies find their missing pieces, their gaps, and fill the gaps so they can scale up successfully. It is applicable to nonprofits because nonprofits need to scale as much as for-profits. At the end of the day, we're all about making money. It's about where the money goes that is the main difference between a for-profit and a nonprofit. As a social entrepreneur with a social consciousness, I am very focused on helping businesses be able to scale up successfully without hitting all these roadblocks along the way. Not to say that they won't hit any roadblocks, but the roadblocks are going to be a lot more manageable, and they will be able to respond to them more effectively because they will have the right professional team and structure in place to be able to do that. Hugh: Russell, this is Russell Dennis who has jumped on the call. You can tell the difference between us because I have more hair. That's it. Lauren: That's the only difference I see. Hugh: Russell, you guys got snow out there in Colorado, didn't you? Russell Dennis: A little bit. We got a little bit out here. It wasn't a great deal, more in the mountains, about an inch or two here in Aurora. Hugh: Lauren is jealous. She is in the Fort Lauderdale area, and she didn't get any snow. Lauren: I think I mentioned I'm originally from Canada. I grew up in Toronto, and I definitely know snow. I have a lot of good friends living in Colorado, including in the cannabis industry and outside of the cannabis industry. Hugh: Lauren, tell us a little bit about- You are trained as an attorney. What kind of attorney? Lauren: I am. I have been a corporate and immigration concierge attorney doing international law and handling international people through advisory services for longer than I care to acknowledge. I am licensed both in Canada and the U.S. I have been working with local entrepreneurs all over the world. You name it, I have been there. Europe, Israel, South America, and Canada, and the U.S. even. Mexico. It's been an interesting ride. I have always felt a calling to the entrepreneurial side of my psyche. As much as I love being a lawyer and that training was great, I don't love sitting behind a desk. I love being with people and helping people and making deals happen. The M&A lawyers who are on Wall Street, I am that type of mindset, but with my own clients and having a much more hands-on approach to working with clients and making sure all their moving parts are moving in the right direction. At the end of the day, there are so many different things that entrepreneurs and small business owners have to deal with in nonprofit and for-profit. They just don't know who to trust and who not to trust. I became this trusted advisor on an ongoing basis and decided to turn it into a larger-scale opportunity to help these businesses scale and grow successfully. It's a nice system. I am happy to share all of the steps with you. It's a nice system that helps you get your structure in place as a blueprint to success. It's like a business plan. Hugh: Great. Do you have a volume control on your computer? Lauren: I do, and I have it all the way up. Hugh: That won't help. I will bring you up when I do the edit of this. Let's talk about the word “assessment.” Everybody uses it. I'm not sure any of us have a definitive paragraph or sentence that we can say to describe it. What is an assessment? Why is it important? why is it important especially for nonprofit leaders? Lauren: Our assessment is quite different than a traditional assessment because we are assessing various foundational issues. Do you have your corporate minutes in place? Have you set up your structure properly? Do you perhaps have trademarks? A lot of these nonprofits are sitting on potential trademark or licensing opportunities that they may be overlooking. Did you put a business plan in place? Do you have an exit strategy in place? For nonprofits, an exit strategy is much different because you have to have an exit strategy for an IRS requirement. It's a matter of looking at all the various components of getting your structure in place and making sure your structure is sound so you can scale and grow. What happens, you will agree with me I'm sure, is I find all too often these small business owners, these accidental entrepreneurs, came up with this idea and suddenly grew. They didn't pay any attention. It's like building your dream home on a sinkhole. Suddenly, the sinkhole collapses, and your whole home collapses with it. I am here to make sure that doesn't happen. I am there to help you get your business on a solid foundation and make sure you are not building on a sinkhole before you start spending all this time, money, and effort to scale your business. At the end of the day, you can only scale so far, and it will come crashing down if you don't have that foundation. That could be assessed. We are assessing your foundational infrastructure. We have a customized score report that we provide, and we have an analysis of what that score means and how you can improve your score so your foundation is stronger. We also have a quiz that I'll share with everybody on the call. It's a freebie, a free online quiz that helps you to see initially how committed you are and how committed your business is. Our mindset might be 100%, but our business may not be ready to match our mindset. Russell: A lot of people mistake assessment and evaluation. They look at it as, It's something I have to do to get somebody off my back. It could be the government or a donor. We are doing this because we have to. They talk about some aspects of their work when you ask them how they know you're effective, “Oh, you can't measure this.” How much of that do you see, and how do you address that when people come at you? Hugh: Lauren: If you can tell me the answer to that, I will have the idea that will get me on the front cover of Entrepreneur Magazine, which is where I'm going. It's challenging. What I'm dealing with, and when I go on stage, I am making broccoli great again. It's about that. when I am building the broccoli of your business, it's not the ice cream, it's not the fun stuff, it's not the dollar dollar dollar, but at the end of the day, it really is. Even for a nonprofit, helping you get your structure in place will allow you to get more donor dollars, allow you to have a stronger valuation, allow you to potentially grow your business successfully, and this adds zero's to your bank account. My new messaging is all about show me the money. If you have a strong foundation in place, you will be able to see more money, if it comes from donors, buyers, or both. Certainly a nonprofit can offer for-profit products and services and make money. It's about what happens to that money that separates it from a for-profit business. Hugh: You have a nonprofit yourself? Lauren: I do. Hugh: What's it called? Lauren: It's called Find My Silver Lining. I established it in 2017. Hugh: You used this assessment yourself? Lauren: I did. Hugh: When you talk about this, there is a strong element of enthusiasm and passion. Was part of the inspiration seeing so many people get stuck in the mud or walk in the wall or fall off a cliff? Lauren: I want to say around February of last year, I have been a part of this coaching program. I offered to review some client agreements at no charge as a gift. In doing so, I realized that there were many business owners in that program that didn't have their ducks in a row. Many had been in business for many years. I'm not saying that that's not possible; it's very possible. But once you hit a certain threshold, you're not a mom and pop anymore, so you could be a target, not just for the IRS, but for litigation, potentially bankruptcy. People see opportunities. People want to challenge you. If you have a disgruntled employee, whatever the case is. As soon as you are starting to scale, your target becomes bigger. I kept seeing this. Oh my goodness, these amazing business owners are exposing themselves to risk. There has to be a way to address that risk and provide a solution. Ultimately what I am building is a home advisor for profits and nonprofit business owners to provide a resource of certified, vetted professionals like you guys who can provide a range of services: strategic services like legal, financial, accounting, insurance, business planning, exit strategies, all high-level B2B services that they are just finding on the Internet. Finding these resources on the Internet is like going in the Yellow Pages. We all used them. AAA, so they would get to the front of that section. It's the same as Google Ads. The more you pay, the higher you rank. That is where they will get the most traction. It doesn't mean they're the best. Does it mean they have been vetted? No. Because they are at the highest ranking, you are going to call them first. I am trying to be the antithesis of that. We won't talk about the companies out there who are especially providing legal services that you have no idea what you're getting. I have a client now who applied for a patent in June. They didn't even know what a patent was. There is no guidance. There is nobody holding their hand. What I have been doing for so long—I wrote a book called Finding Your Silver Lining in the Business Immigration Process. Everything is about finding the silver lining. Part of the reason is because to find a silver lining through adversity, my nonprofit is for single moms and single parents to help them find their way through the clouds. It's all about that. In everything you do, if you have somebody to count on, a support system, entrepreneurs and small business owners are often running on empty. We are running on our own. We are isolated. We are trying to have an impact. It's very hard to have an impact without the support and trusted advisors around you, so that is what I am building. Hugh: You're an attorney. You look at things differently than an ordinary person. You look at it as part of a risk assessment. Lauren: That's a good way of characterizing it, yes. Hugh: You've seen people get in trouble unnecessarily. Lauren: Absolutely. Hugh: You're looking at the holes. We're looking at the donut; you're looking at the hole. You see the silver lining, but you realize there are some holes. You're talking about a corporation, be it for-profit or nonprofit, and that corporation is a liability shield. Without the right documents in place, people can sue you and come for you personally if they can pierce that corporate veil. Lauren: Very big deal. People don't realize that. They think if they have a company, they're protected, and they're not because people can come for you personally. That is another dimension of the problem. Hugh: The compliance piece- recording your contracts, putting them in the corporate record book. Any agreements or expenditures. It's about liability protection. It's also about, you mentioned empower donors. Russell, it would occur to me we don't always protect ourselves from audits, but it would make us audit-worthy if you had your records filed. What are you hearing here, Russ? Russell: For me, the first step to building a high-performance nonprofit is having that solid foundation. There are a lot of things that go in there. If you don't have the right legal protection or the right structure, moving forward, you have to have the right structure. For nonprofits, succession planning is critical, too. Lauren: Big deal. Russell: Moreso maybe than exit planning. Everybody plans to operate in perpetuity. That doesn't always happen. But to have a succession plan so that you know how things are going to flow, no matter who is in the building at any given time, that structure sets a nonprofit up for success. Mitigating risks. I don't think a lot of nonprofits think about risks, but risk is there. You have natural risks. You have legal risks just like any other entity. The thing that came to mind was a question because you deal with this so much on the structural side. We talk about it in terms of strategy, but we defer to legal experts, accounting experts, experts who have that critical knowledge in their field that will keep us in compliance and keep us operating correctly. When it comes to scaling, I know a lot of times growth comes out of nowhere. You catch fire. You go viral. All of a sudden, you have all of this money and donors and people approaching you. When it comes to being prepared in this, what would you say is the biggest gap that you see nonprofits have? What is the most common mistake they make when they are that point in time? Hugh: Lauren: It's common for both nonprofits and for-profits although nonprofits are more guilty of this. Nonprofits think that because they have this designation, they are immune from challenge, or they are litigation-proof, or something along those lines. That just isn't true. Nobody will come after us; we are a charitable organization; we have a 501(c)3 designation. Whatever the case is. Why would they come after us? We don't have deep pockets. Really? A lot of them have deeper pockets because of the fact that they can distribute the income to their shareholders or the dividends or whatever. As a result, there is a lot of nonprofits out there that are extraordinarily successful. United Way, Red Cross, Jewish Federation. There is a huge amount of donors, very large businesses. There is a colleague of mine in this coaching program who runs a nonprofit. He came to the coaching program, and he was looking to raise $2 million. That was his goal for the year. He ended up raising $20 million because he created this licensing program and sold it to other nonprofits, which is amazing. That is where there is an opportunity. It's not just about assessing legal risk or legal vulnerability. It's also about the opportunity that this presents to you. I was talking about trademarks, and a lot of nonprofits have access to trademarks but don't know about them. In my report, I talk not only about risk, but also about hidden fortune. There is a lot of possible fortunes that these businessowners or executive directors might be sitting on that they could be making a great deal of money giving back to the community and making an even broader impact. I think that is where that missing link is. They don't think about a nonprofit as a business. They think about it as a charity. A lot of lawyers are guilty of this, too. Lawyers and service providers. Lawyers run their business as fee for service. I have developed this professional resource success plan, which outlines all the professionals that are needed to fill all the gaps in your armor and to potentially help you to scale and grow. We talk about mindset and coaching and opportunity and where do you want to go and your exit or your business succession plan. You're right. Every business needs a succession plan, whether it's an exit or a legacy. No matter what, in order to be successful, in order for a for-profit business to be successful at due diligence or a nonprofit to be successful in their succession planning, they need that structure in place. they are just not paying attention it. They are coasting along, thinking about how much donor money they can get this year, and are they meeting your budget, and are their donors happy. This is all great stuff. But think about the potential of greater impact if you are able to get those pieces in place and make that difference. It's like night and day. For both of you, once we have the opportunity to work through this with some of your client base, you can see how much of a difference it makes. They are coming out exposed, and then they are going back in and getting their hair done and makeup. Now they are ready to show themselves to the public. You are not getting too much hair done over there, Russell. It is a completely different mindset. I hear a lot of entrepreneurs work in their pajamas. I can barely work sweatpants even if I am working from home because that is not the mindset I want. I want to be in work mode no matter where I am. It's important. I think it's the same for for-profit business owners who are running a sole proprietor. They are not looking at it as a business; they are looking at it as a hobby. Until you make that transition, and look at it as a business, you're going to stay at a certain plateau. You may scale; you may make money. But at a certain point, you're eventually going to collapse. Russell: As you talk about that, one of the things that comes to mind when you talk about opportunities and other things businesses have access to, a business revenue comes to mind. Opportunities for mission-based revenue. You also have unrelated business income, as far as, it's money that's possibly left on the table because people don't think about bringing a valuable service. When it comes to revenue generation and protecting your intellectual property is important, it should separately be maintained and protected. Everything should be walled off. There is another discussion. When it comes to revenue, whether it's business-related or unrelated, when you see organizations that have one or both, what are some of the biggest pitfalls you see them fall into? Lauren: One of the things is that there is a limitation, but you still have to stay true. If you are a nonprofit and are providing for-profit services and products, you still have to stay true to your mission. If you start making millions of dollars and use it as a sham, so you can pass through income at a tax-free rate, or through a nonprofit to get the benefits of that, or raise money to do advertising, that is where the problems happen. The separation needs to be clean. If you start paying an executive director, suddenly they get a 100% salary increase, where is the money coming from? Where is the money going to? Are you circumventing the rule of putting the money back into the directors' pockets? That is where the problems happen. There is also an issue of fiscal sponsorship, as I'm sure you're familiar with, and renting your nonprofit to another entity. There are ways to do it that are legal and kosher, as long as you follow the rules. But if you are just using your nonprofit as a sham or as a front for what you're really trying to accomplish or for your for-profit business, you will lose your designation. It's as simple as that. Russell: It's important to put your structure. You have to have a separate structure, especially for unrelated, but also business income, and mission-based revenue. You have to make sure the vast majority of those funds are going into your programs and operation of your nonprofit to keep from creating a tax event. Unrelated business income, you file separate returns. You pay taxes on that the way you do with others. What happens is people can get distracted. People who approach a nonprofit can get confused. Do you find that nonprofits that are successful with generating large amounts of mission-based revenue, or maybe a substantial amount, a good percentage of the revenue they generate, do you find that they have difficulty getting donors because they see, “Well, they are making plenty of money. I don't need to write them a check.”? Lauren: It's definitely a challenge. However, it depends on your mission and how impactful it is and how broad it is. I think that what happens with some nonprofits, and this is what should happen, is as they become more successful financially, their mission expands beyond their original intended scope, demographically or in terms of the people they are helping. There is room for that within the IRS code. As long as that happens, I don't see it as a problem. But as soon as that is not happening, or once there is a compromise in that, it does create challenges. Russell: The key is to structure and make sure everything is compartmentalized and appropriately reported. It's about the systems you have in place. In order to scale, you have to have really good strong systems. What are the ones that you think are essential for them to have first? If you had to set systems up in a specific sequence for nonprofits, what would that be? Lauren: Operating systems are critical for any business; I don't care what business you are. You have to have an operating system for everything that happens from the time you answer the phone to the time you deliver the service until after that, all the way through, for the life of that relationship. You have to have a system in place for every single touchpoint with the prospective donor, with the donor, with following up with the donor, with if the donor moves. You have to have operating systems for all of your internal processes. They should be externally driven, one for your outbound touchpoints and one for your inbound stuff. How do your people work with each other? Who is responsible for your bank account? How many people are signing checks? What is the check and balance there? How does that all work? Every single thing should be documented. When I started this, I didn't realize how few businesses have systems. The only systems they have are the ones they pulled offline. That is the exception, not the rule. This is true of legal documents too because everyone goes online and pulls documents from there. It's like filling out the 1023, the IRS 501(c)3 application. Oh, this is easy. I can do this. It's just some forms. If that were true, there wouldn't be all these businesses doing that. It's very complicated. Even the 1023 form should not be done on your own. You need to make sure you are following the rules, and whatever you put in there is going to be systematized within your organization. What happens if the executive director quits someday? I'm sure this has happened to your clients. Uh oh, now what? One of my messages is about dealing with the Uh oh, now what? You don't want to wake up in the morning and say, What is going to happen today? I cannot imagine going to work today. Steve is doing this, and Joe is doing that, and Nina is doing this. Nobody is talking to anybody. We don't have group meetings. Things are falling apart. The donors are frustrated. They don't know what is going on. They are going to move their money elsewhere because they don't know if they are getting their donation receipt. It's a mess. One thing leads to another leads to another. I wish it was as true for the good things. The messy things have a more quick and efficient domino effect. Russell: This is true. We call them internal controls, what you talk about, for the IRS. How do you control who handles what? What is your record-keeping like? That gives you the scope of any audit you do. The scope is based on several things. One is the corporate records. I know you mentioned that. I'd like to ask you to speak to that. As an auditor, when I walked into a corporation, I wanted the internal control polices. The corporate minute book was the first thing I reviewed. Lauren: Was this on the for-profit side? Russell: The for-profit side, yes. Lauren: It's similar. When you submit for a nonprofit designation, you submit all these bylaws, including a conflict bylaw. I can't remember the title. Russell: Conflict of interest policy. Lauren: My brain went dead. This is so big in the nonprofit world. It's almost like insider trading in the for-profit world. If you have created a bylaw and implemented it and approved it and ratified it, and it's part of your corporate record-book, and you don't adhere to it, it's as good as throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks. This can put you in more harm than not having it in the first place. You're purposefully going around what you implemented. That's not cool. Your minute book depends on your state because some minute books, Delaware is strict on their minute book requirements and updates. Florida is less strict. The nonprofit requirements are different. But you need to follow your policies. Your bylaw policy said, We are going to have a board of directors meeting once a quarter. You need to have it and put it in the minute book once a quarter. I will tell you something that you probably don't know, and I shouldn't say it out loud. If there are businesses out there that want help with their minute books, we can fix them after the fact as long as it's before the auditor comes in. You just have to get everything up to date and in place. That's important. You can't fudge it, but it's okay to do it after the minute you're supposed to do it as long as you get it done. Let's get together. Call us, and we can get it done with you so that we can make sure you won't have a problem if the IRS or any other entity shows up at your door. Today, they're not coming so fast because they're still unfortunately on shutdown. Russell: The greater likelihood over the few years is a state regulator will walk in your office because of the reduction, and the money has been moved out of regulation. That's another discussion. It's true with the 1023. There are certain things you represent that you're going to do. What the auditors do is they look at your books and bylaws: Are you doing what you say you're going to do? I know there are laws out there. But we go by what you say that you are going to do. That is a huge portion of what an auditor would look at as to determine if you are on track, if you are in compliance. Are you doing what you say you're going to do? These are important to put on the table. With good systems in place, and it takes a little time to do this, the operation smooths out. Am I on track with that? Lauren: Hopefully. It's just like anything. You could have paper in a book or online. Then it's a matter of implementing and enforcing. Unfortunately, we're all guilty of creating a policy where the consequences are not consistent. Like my child. They're not consistent, so his behavior is not good from time to time. It's my fault because I am not consistent in enforcing a consequence. Same with a minute book. It's the same concept. A lot of people, just like setting up a nonprofit and using it as a sham, put thing into place to cover their you-know-whats. That's it. It sits on the shelf. They do it to be in compliance. If they are not honoring it and adhering to it, whatever operating system or control you have, it won't matter. You can't suddenly say, “I can't have a policy for it.” If you haven't enforced it in the past three years, and the person has been doing whatever they have been doing, or their brother has been sending them money, I am far-fetched here. The reality is there is a lot of this that goes on. As more for-profit businesses set up nonprofit entities, this is an ongoing problem. I think it's all a matter of training. If your people are not trained properly on what your policies mean, it's only a piece of paper. You need to have the policy, create the manual, create the operating policies, create the training, train your people, get them to buy in, have them involved, and have consequences for noncompliance. It's a range of things that need to happen. Have a third party designated to oversee that process so it doesn't fall on the executive director. Hugh: Absolutely. That's why you have board members and advisors. They really have fiduciary and governance oversight. Let's go back to this assessment. It sounds painful and expensive. What's involved? If I wanted to go through the process and take this assessment, what's involved in doing it? What do I get from that? Does it help me figure out how to do all this? It sounds scary right now. Lauren: We don't let it be scary. I am the non-scary lawyer. I have a free quiz. It's not specifically oriented to the nonprofit world yet; we are developing one now. I'll be happy to share it with your listeners. It's ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online. You can take that quiz; it's about 2 minutes. We can set up a quick call to discuss your needs. The assessment is $47. I can share a $20 coupon code that makes it $27. It's a customized score that highlights your issues and lets you know how at risk you are. It gives you access to my calendar for a quick call. The assessment and a strategy session is only $197. That gives you time to go through the assessment results and talk about how they could be improved. How can you improve your score so your bottom in is better? Our big deliverable item. The regular price is $997. However, Hugh, you, I, and Russell can talk about a special delivery product for the nonprofit world and can get a coupon code. I don't want to charge that much for people in the nonprofit world. It's a blueprint that shows you everything you need to scale up your business successfully. Then we create a strategy based on your budget and priorities. If your priority is to get a business plan in place because you want to build a facility, that's what we will focus on first. That will come out of this analysis and deep dive we do for you. Hugh: That sounds interesting. The quiz, anybody can take that. We try to convince those that are running a nonprofit, which is a bad word, it's a misnomer. Those who are in a tax-exempt enterprise, a for-purpose organization, they are really, there is a high level, it's critical that we establish sound business principles. If you have an organization, you should run it responsibly. It's good stewardship, if nothing else. The quiz, we could evaluate it as a tax-exempt business. It's ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz- Lauren: ScaleUpCheckUpQuiz.online. Hugh: That gives them the free quiz. You fill something, and you have a chance to interpret it. Then the assessment could be available through SynerVision Leadership Foundation for people who want to find out how much trouble they are in. Then there is a prescriptive; this is what you do about it. Lauren: Not exactly. The prescriptive is more detailed in the success plan. The assessment, if they do it with the strategy session, we will give them some ideas and tips on how to improve the score. It's the success plan that will give you a blueprint of everything you should do to make your structure more sound so you can accomplish your goals. Hugh: Your basic website is ScaleUpCheckUp.com. There is everything about the products there. There is a toll-free number to contact you. You have this purple branding that is quite elegant. Lauren: I've always been into purple. My existing brand is purple. For as long as I've had a brand, I've had purple. Hugh: That's on your site. People can go to ScaleUpCheckUp.com and can learn about you. What have we not asked you that people need to know about this whole line of risk mitigation? Lauren: The real question is: So what if I don't do it? So what if I don't get my stuff in place? What happens? How do I get caught? What's the risk? There is a huge risk. As Russell knows, having been an auditor, you risk not only for the nonprofit organization losing your designation, piercing the corporate veil, which means they go beyond the business and to you personally. You can lose your own personal assets. You put your family at risk. These are serious issues that people just don't want to deal with. They want to deal with numbers and money. Numbers and money, this will get you more numbers and money than any sale is going to ever get you. Your sale will be stopped dead in its tracks. All that time and effort on that sale will be wasted because you haven't done what you needed to do. When you want to create a strategic partnership or synergy, for example, you and I, with SynerVision, if we have a joint venture or strategic partnership, we both want to make sure we both did certain due diligence, with the compliance checks. We have our business in place. Our licenses are kosher. Everything is right and in place. Otherwise, I don't want to do business with you, and you don't want to do business with me. They could have a multi-million-dollar prospect on the table. I had a client I was working with for a short time. They were about to enter into this multi-million-dollar deal, a very big name. Big. Big. One of the biggest. I'm trying to see Russell's face. I think he's smiling. I'm willing, they didn't have their minute book records in place. For three years, they didn't have a single document. Because this company is so big and successful, they wanted to see that all their I's were dotted and T's were crossed. Do you know this company would not pay me to get their records updated? It was $5,000 or something like that. It was nothing. They didn't want to deal with it. They lost the deal. Multi-million-dollars. It was too late because they could have had it done, and they would have been at the table. This is what happens. You lose your seat at the table. You will have someone come after you and sue you, whether it's a disgruntled employee or the IRS. You won't have access to potential huge opportunities with your intellectual property. You are putting yourself at risk every which way and losing out on opportunities to make a fortune. So let's have a conversation and see how we can help you scale your business successfully and not violate your 501(c)3 designation or your company bylaws. I think there is a lot of for-profit corporations that are purposeful. It's all confusing, right? I try to have a purpose and make an impact, even though I have a for-profit company. There are so many ways we can create opportunity for you as a company and business owner to scale successfully. It's silly to throw that opportunity away because of fear of the unknown. Hugh: Yes, it is. This is a huge inventory of important things that people don't know to ask about. Russell, before we do our closing sequence, do you have another issue we need to bring before this lady? Russell: I was thinking about a point you made earlier that is worth emphasizing again. There are a lot of tools out there. People find templates and guides to build contracts and agreements with. Nothing wrong with them. The problem is people don't have them reviewed by someone who has the knowledge necessary to make sure everything is in there to protect yourself. Just grabbing something. The other thing people don't do is read the fine print in their own contract. They create something that they are going to adhere to. If they look at it with the eyes of, This will protect us from other people, they may not be protecting themselves from themselves by clarifying what they are agreeing to do. How common is it that you see people with these boilerplate templates? How can they get them reviewed? They definitely need to do that. Is it something that will break the bank? I think that's what stops a lot of people from doing that. Lauren: Thank you for asking that question. One signature speech of mine is “7 Secret Scale-Up Success Strategies.” One of the secrets is: Don't download a boilerplate template without getting it reviewed. There are multiple reasons to have it reviewed, some of which you addressed. Also, they could name the wrong parties. They could pull the wrong template. It could be perfect, but for another situation. They may think they need X, and they may need Y. It could be covered with legalese that no one understands, including lawyers. I wrote an agreement last week for a nonprofit for a lawyer. I was working with this lawyer. I want it to be two pages. This was a lawyer who was telling another lawyer that this agreement should be two pages. I can make it four. I'm laughing. I saw him last night and was like, “Two pages?” We are trying to condense things and make them concise because you get lost in it. I can't give you a flat fee, but we do have packages that include a range of services, including reviewing up to five agreements of up to 10 pages each. We have them on monthly packages, semi-annual packages, and annual packages. You need to grab one of those. Not go to those online services, but have someone you can trust and contact and text, a live person, who can help you look at those agreements and see what's missing or not. What's missing is almost as bad or often worse than what's not missing. You won't catch everything. No lawyer will catch everything because I don't know exactly what every single business owner wants to accomplish. But if you don't have it reviewed, you may as well jump in the ocean without a life preserver. Hugh: This is helpful information, Lauren. Thank you. *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership Foundation* What I'm taking away from Lauren's interview today is there are things about enterprises that we don't even know we're supposed to know. Lauren, what thought do you want to leave people with?   Lauren: Think about your nonprofit or for-purpose business as a business. Take it seriously. It deserves your attention. It deserves the attention of professionals. Don't be everything to your organization. Bring in the professionals that you can trust to accomplish the goals you need. I am available to speak with any of you about how to scale up your nonprofit. I look forward to working with you, Hugh and Russell, and collaborating with you further. Don't take the risk of losing all that you've built because you're afraid to make a phone call or send an email. Russell: This has been an enlightening and uplifting conversation. Here at SynerVision Leadership, we have all sorts of people like Lauren that are here. Come join the community and have a chance to plug into conversations with people so you are not doing things by yourself. We are the source for all things nonprofit. If we don't have the answers, we know people like Lauren who do.     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rocio Perez is an executive leader with more than 20 years of experience providing relevant insight to leaders around the world. She has delivered hundreds of inspiring and life-changing leadership trainings, keynotes and presentations to people around the world. Rocío helps leaders gain confidence, presence and step into their personal power, pave their own way, discover and eliminate their blind spots, spark self-awareness and maximize their overall impact. More…   Read the Interview Hugh Ballou:  Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Russell, our guest today is somebody that you connected us with. How are you doing today, Russ? Russell Dennis: I'm fine. It's beautiful out here in Denver, Colorado, where my guest is. She is just a remarkable woman who is a master around leadership. She has a very interesting journey that everybody should know about. Her book really describes her in general. She has a book called Unstoppable. That describes Rocio Perez, who will tell us about who she is. Welcome. It's always good to see ya. Rocio: Russell, always a wonderful pleasure. Hugh, thank you for the invitation to be on your show today. I'm very excited. I'll tell you a little bit about who I am, and then we'll go back to what made me who I am. I am an international leadership expert and have worked with individuals all the way from Denver to Singapore and Korea. I love helping people create an extraordinary vision in their life. I love helping them get unstuck. All of us get stuck in one way or another in our careers. My goal is always to allow people to see how amazing they are so that they can have an extraordinary life. That has been one of the most exciting things I have done. I have been working with people since I was 17 years old. It's been a long time. It's been an extraordinary journey over 24 years watching people. By 19, I was guiding 160-200 people at a time and taking them from where they were at in their goals and their dreams to be educated in their careers to where they're at today. I have seen remarkable things all over the world. That's been very thrilling to watch people open up their businesses, thriving businesses, and lead their team members into extraordinary amounts of success. Yet it did not start there. That's where my journey to Unstoppable comes through. I started off growing up in extreme circumstances as a child. By the time I was 12, given those circumstances, I looked at different things in life. I left home. I ran away from home at the age of 12. I'm sure there are a lot of people who wonder. I hear all the time, “How did you do that?” I had a vision. I had a dream. Ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to inspire people. I would run around with my uncle Sergio and say, “Some day, I'm going to grow up and become a teacher so I can inspire people.” Whether I was born with that or I picked it up somewhere, I don't know. What I do know is that drew me closer and closer to him. By the time I was 14, I ran away. I was pregnant at 14 and a mom by 15. And at that age, I was also knocking on the university doors to let me in so I could fulfill that dream. With my 6th grade education, showing up there, they're like, “Who are you? What are you doing here?” One of the things I can tell you is I was relentless at knowing I wanted to go to school. The only answer I could hear, I could accept was, “Yes, this is when you start.” That led me on an extraordinary journey at the age of 17 starting college. The track was difficult, guys. It was very difficult. It was an eight-hour track on a daily basis. Getting up at three o'clock in the morning so I could start my trek at four am to be at class by eight am was definitely something that unstoppable leaders are made of. I look back at that part of my life and think how amazing was that. I didn't think about that. This is what needs to be done. That's it. I'm happy to say that along the way from the age of 19 forward, I have led thousands and thousands of people. I became a serial entrepreneur. I did what seems to be impossible in the eyes of many individuals who were saying, “That's not possible. How can a person with your background make it?” I have been in homes of very important global leaders, in front of ambassadors of countries, presented to members of Parliament. I have done extraordinary things. It was all based on the belief of what made me unstoppable and what made the people I have guided throughout the years unstoppable today. My son is 28 years old, which sometimes I can't even believe. I have a four-year-old grandson named Emilio who continues to inspire me and helps me move forward as I continue to build businesses and help them get unstuck in greater levels of success and help them move forward in everything they're doing, making an impact on this world. Hugh: What a story. What a story. Show us that book again. You just happen to have it handy. Rocio: I do. This book is all over the world. It made international bestseller in less than 12 hours from the moment that the book was launched. One of the things I can tell you, Hugh, is it's been an answer to what a lot of people were asking: “Rocio, what can I do to help myself?” As I was getting off stages, whether it was Ph. Ds or MDs or 123s or ABCs, whatever it was. Whoever was getting off the stage wanted to get an answer. Besides coaching one on one or group coaching, here is another opportunity. This book has brought a lot of hope, a lot of transformation to people. It's been exciting to hear people who have had up to 33 businesses saying, “Because of this book and what I got out of it, I am doing business differently moving forward.” That has been touching, humbling, inspirational. Hugh: Tell us how you came up with that title, Unstoppable. Rocio: It's what I've always done. That's my domain. I am unstoppable by nature, unstoppable by desire, unstoppable. I was sitting here as I was writing a memoir. The next version of my memoir, which will be released next year. What can I do? Besides answering the call. What is that message that we all have inside of all of us? In my experience, it was the fact that working with so many people all over the world, the one thing they sometimes couldn't see, because I have been there and done that, I know what it's like not to see my own greatness in front of others. Sometimes they couldn't see it. They couldn't see their unstoppable nature. They couldn't see all of the amazing things they have done, how they have borrowed from the past. We were all meant to be unstoppable. Nine out of ten people are unstoppable and don't know it. For me, it's just to turn back that mirror and say, “Have you seen yourself?” The moment they see themselves, we go through a subtle process. When they see themselves fully, they become unstoppable. They own their unstoppable nature. Hugh: That is a compelling title. The rest of the title, and I found that on Facebook. What is the rest of the title? Rocio: Seven Steps to Becoming a More Intentional Leader. Hugh: I found it on Amazon, I meant. A more intentional leader. Do you want to highlight those seven steps? Rocio: Most definitely. I'll talk about the first three steps that are really important. Let's understand ourselves. Let's understand how our mind works. That is the first and most important thing. Knowing that our subconscious mind is there to preserve and protect our life. I don't have to speak about how many times our heart is going to beat. There is an intelligence inside all of us. When we understand that, and we understand that we are all meant for greatness, we are all destined for greatness, we can go ahead and hijack our own success, even in those moments we don't think we're unstoppable. The steps that are very important after knowing that is what is it that I must be aware of? Fostering that awareness and that capacity to change that we all have. We can all transform no matter where we start from. Knowing if this little girl who would run around barefoot thinking of only a dream would be possible, then it's possible for all of us. It's possible for one; it's possible for all. I have proved it thousands and thousands of times over and over again. Having that incisive discovery and accelerating my insight. How do I work with the people who already know that I can continue to learn? Who I am today is not who I must be in order for me to have what I want to have or be where I want to be. The next step, which is the third step, is I must know where I am going. Just like I knew where I was going. I wanted to become that teacher. I held that road map. No matter who came along, whether Ann or Billy or Dave or whomever was there, I held my own map and said, “This is where I'm going.” Whoever didn't pay attention, it didn't matter. I just moved on to the next person and said, “This is where I'm going.” Sounds like you have a question right there, Hugh. Hugh: No, I'm just resonating- I was practicing my R. I'm Southern. This is fascinating. Go ahead. I am going to have Russell jump in on the next question. These are really important steps. What I was also thinking, there is a lot of resonance with what we teach at SynerVision. Rocio: Beautiful. In that, too, is speeding up my personal evolution. They all go hand in hand. How do I accelerate? How do I become more aware of what's going on? Today, more than any other time in history, three things to me are super important. One is my auto leadership. How am I going to be leading myself? I hold the map. I take it wherever I go. Who is the most important person in our lives? We are. We know where we're going. We are the ones who are going to make that commitment and move forward. Two is being that intentional leader. How do I get there? It's about going through it over and over again, necessarily that I have to be intentional about everything I do. I have a level 10 goal. I can't give it 9.99 because that doesn't get me through the finish line. What is going to bring me to the finish line? Understanding sometimes that intention is being in positive places. Let me leave you with a picture here that was painted very vividly in my mind. You can get through the finish line of a marathon running with 100 people than with three people on your back. When you think about that intentionality, am I in a place that supported me? If I'm not, how do I create that for myself? Nothing happens to us; it only happens through us. Where do I go? How do I do this? How did that happen for me? The third step is being that aware leader. What am I aware of? What is happening in my life? How am I creating my reality? What is it I have created over and over again? We can think about a thought. The only thing that distinguishes us from a horse or a puppy or whatever that may be is the fact that we have the ability to be able to think and think very vividly and create that. Whatever it is we can think about, we can think and bring it to fruition. That is important to know because if our thoughts are positive, fantastic. High five. If our thoughts are negative, what is the impact of those negative thoughts on what will happen in our lives? We are thinking negative. We don't know about negative. We are wondering why we are getting negative results. It's about thinking about hey, we have anywhere from 55,000-75,000 thoughts a day. Whether those thoughts are negative or positive depends on what we are into that moment, that day. That very next step for me is creating that road map. I know where I'm going. Those three things are important. Now I know where I'm going. I can get there because I can look at that map and know what does it look like every step of the way, and being comfortable with adjusting that. Sometimes we get caught up in it has to be this way, yet it may not. Maybe somebody comes in and short-tracks your entire learning right there. It takes you from Point A to Point Z immediately. Yet if we were to be married to the way things are supposed to be, it's not going to happen. It may be a long journey, or it may not even happen. If it does, you may not be happy with the process because we put so much effort into it. It's fascinating to see that. I have seen it over and over again. For instance, when I work with clients, individuals come to me and say, “I want to make more money.” Before they came to me, they had already jumped out of their business, or they took a leap of faith and didn't have a parachute. That is destructive to see. You must have something that you know whether you're very centered or grounded. Whether it's the finances that support you through the process, or it's just the belief and the action that will take you to your success. The next one is taking that massive action. I have been relentless in taking action my entire life. Getting on a bus, waking up at three o'clock in the morning after I went to sleep at midnight, it's not something that normal people do. As I hear it from my friends, I like to say that I'm fab-normal because I'm willing to do whatever it takes. That relentlessness and resourcefulness. Something came up right here. Even the word “resentful.” To understand the impact of the words in our world. When a person holds onto feelings, those feelings actually have an impact in our world. What does that impact in our world? That can be detrimental. If I'm holding onto resentment, it's like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to get hurt in the process, which is one of the worst things that anybody could ever do. To me, it's blessing that person. I hope that person has an extraordinary time. Yes, it may have cost me time, energy, resources, whatever it may be. I just bless that person and hope that person is in a better place. I truly do. I can move forward. The very last part of it is understanding I must come back and evaluate my process. What does that look like? Does it look like I am tweaking it? Am I testing, tracking what my progress is along the way and making adjustments? I have been caught up in certain parts of my life. Things are going rough, and things happen. We have a setback. What does that look like to be aware that that also has an impact in the way we are thinking and living life? Russell: All critical stuff for any leader who wants to move forward. These are a lot of things we discuss with people at SynerVision in moving forward. We all have challenges. There are a lot of challenges. You have overcome some great ones. Most people I talk to have overcome some great challenges and don't always recognize the magnitude of what they have come through. That's important. Nonprofit leaders are people with a big vision. They want to change the world. Some of them have a lot of these attributes, and the mindset is critical, as you have talked about. What are some of the ways that you have seen leaders you have worked with- If there were what you call three greatest hits for the ways that leaders get in their own way, what would those be? Rocio: I would say the mindset is probably one of the biggest things in that. That is one of the biggest things that inspired me about our previous conversations and this one as well is looking at how am I getting in the way? Sometimes we hear things we intake from other people. That's why I shared earlier that we must be intentional about who we're around. If people are not supporting my vision, then I must look for a group that supports my vision. No matter the way we think about it, we start intaking it. It's like somebody coming in and throwing garbage on our bed. Would we like that? They throw it little by little by little. Sure enough in time, that bed will be filthy. We are not going to know where to start. Number one is to find a place that supports you in your vision. The other thing is to believe in the fact that there are good people in this world who are willing to help. Here you are, Russell and Hugh. The fact that you're here to guide individuals, you know the way, you can lead the way, and short-track people's success. You can go even faster. You can go the fast track or the slow track. What do you want? That's what I ask my clients, too. What would you like to do? I can take you on any journey. What journey do you want to be on? Do you want to be on the jet that will give you immediate success, or do you want to be on the horse? That's up to you. I will take you whatever way. I am here to be of service. Know to stay focused on the vision. What is the vision? The vision you came into this nonprofit organization with, the reason why you set it up, who you are going to help will help you to continue to get up every morning and to know that's what you're moving toward. Focus on the feeling of what it is you are looking to accomplish, whether that is an individual, a city, a country, the world, whatever it is that is important to you. Focus on the feeling of what it would be like. That is one of the things we don't focus on enough. We are focused on things are going haywire as opposed to that will feel amazing, that will get me up every single morning. There are mornings I get up, “I am here to serve. I am here to serve the people who are ready to be served.” In that, that inspires me to get up, to get on the stage, to show up every single time whether there is one person in that audience who hears that message, or 100 people who hear it. It's about showing up and having that belief that gives us the confidence that the more we do it, the easier it becomes. Russell: That's what possibility engineering is about. That's why I am one. There is always a way around something. We can find it with the right support. Becoming what Hugh calls a transformational leader is intentional. It's deliberate. It's no accident. Do all people have a capacity to be good leaders? Or is it something you have to be born with? Rocio: For me, we are all leaders. We are all meant to be leaders. We are leaders of our own life. Let's be honest. The morning we wake up, we are the CEO of our own company, the financial officer. We are leading ourselves. All of a sudden, somebody put this title up here when in reality it's there for all of us. We are all leaders in our own way in our own lives. Stepping into leadership to lead others is also when we take some of those fundamentals into life, let's say that for leadership, I am a mom. Which I am. Looking at that, how do I guide a team? How would I guide them? Do I treat them with empathy and compassion? Do I listen and ask, “Hey Russell, is everything okay? I see the project is not completed on time. Is everything okay? Anything going on with you?” Whether I can help you fix that problem, it also gives you an opportunity to say, I don't need to hide, because we hide. Whether we realize it or not, because we have been taught not to bring our home selves into work, which also has a huge impact. We can have many conversations. That piece alone, when we are siloing ourselves, here is who I am at work, here is who I am in real life. No, here is who I am as a complete and whole being. Yes, we are all capable of being those extraordinary leaders. Let's bring some fundamentals. How would we treat our children? Do we want to treat them with empathy and compassion, love, connection? Are there any throwaway people? Not really. Are there any throwaway kids? No, no. In reality, have I found something that connects and inspires them to continue to move forward in the direction of their dreams and their vision? Russell: That sounds like some of the ways a nonprofit leader can lead with a vision. What are the three most important things that a leader can do, especially in the nonprofit sphere, to help make his/her team unstoppable? Rocio: Encourage self-care. Mindfulness is so important. All of the years I have been around nonprofits simultaneously in 24 years, I have seen the impact of an individual, the burnout. Their heart is in the right place. They want to make an impact on the world. Sometimes, as leaders, we are not consciously aware that they're running themselves ragged. That is because we have already run ourselves ragged that we are not connected to that. We are numb to the fact they are doing that. Encouraging self-care is important. Check in with people. Connect with them. Get to know them. Ask them questions about their lives. Really get to know them. That is big in my world is to get to know people. Sit down for coffee. Get to know what their vision is. One thing is to know them. How am I going to get to where I want to be? More than a decade ago, I read a book about leadership, and I always thought how I would be the day I became a leader in my organization. What would that look like? I would listen to people. Get to know who you are. This is for me now. I want to get to know who you are. What's important to you? What would success look like? What do you not have right now that you would have that would light your world up, make it worthwhile? When I know that, I can help that person, as they are helping me to get to my vision, get to their vision. This is not a one-way street. Just because somebody is getting paid does that mean they are disregarded. The fact is they are giving you the most precious thing they have, which is time. You can get anything from anyone. That time that person is giving you cannot be replaced by anybody. We have a certain bucket of hours. We don't know when our time is called. That is why it makes it so special. Get to know people. Form those relationships. Take time to form those relationships, not just inside your organization, but outside your organization. A lot of people walk around and say, “Marketing is only one person's responsibility,” when marketing is a way of communication for all of us. Hugh: Russell, we got to the halfway point here. We titled our interview “The Five Top Secrets of Unstoppable Leaders.” You shared your seven steps to becoming an intentional leader. I am curious. Are you curious? Let's see what those five top secrets are. Rocio: Number one is getting to know myself. Every intentional leader gets to know who they are. They get to know what limits them, what drives them, what excites them, what blocks them. That is so important. First and foremost, get to know yourself. As you get to know yourself, you can get to know others and come from a place of empathy and compassion, and in some cases, ruthless compassion. Get to know yourself. That way, you can get to know others. Hijack your mind. If you can hijack your mind, intentional leaders hijack their mind. They take their learning into their own hands. They are constantly learning from people. Hugh: That's #2? Rocio: #2. Continuous learning. Hijacking your mind, and learning from anybody you can learn. There is not just one way of doing things. That is learning more about you. How does that work for you? The next step is showing up from intention with everything that I do. If you look at those three things of leadership that are close to me, the intentionality. If I know I am working with Russell, and I know Russell wants to send his kids to college, Princeton and Yale specifically, how can I help him every day to show up with intention in everything that I do for him? It's not just me; it's him. Show up from a place of authenticity, with those values that are so important, connection, vulnerability. What a concept. When people know me as an individual- Let me share one thing on that. I used to speak from a stage. You can give me any topic I'm familiar with, and I did an extraordinary job. When I tell you, when I started to share about me and my journey and where I had been, people would follow me. That was so different because it took something from me to be so vulnerable. I thought that that vulnerability was something that wasn't supposed to be shown. The moment you show up from a place of authenticity, vulnerability, connection, story, there is a relatedness within others that you can connect with. Showing up with energy, extraordinary energy. Nobody talks about energy. We see leaders from the stage talking and expressing, yet their expressions don't match what they want us to see from the audience. That is key. It's very different. I can come in and tell my son, “Son, I really love you,” or I can lean in, “Son, I really love you.” Same intonation. My body speaks louder than words. When we can show up from that place, “It is fantastic to get to know you. It is fantastic to get to be here with you,” that is a different story. When we can look somebody in the eye and ground that person because they have lived whatever is going on in that day, that is what leaders really do. They focus on that individual and pay attention to what that person is going through because they are the most important person in front of them in that moment, just like you are, and each person that I stood in front of before is the most important person in the moment because we all are. Russell: That's critical. Those are great attributes for people to have to become unstoppable. I had thought of an acronym for hijack. I remember writing a piece quite some time ago. I have to gout and find that. Those are characteristics of extraordinary leaders, too. When you go into your typical workplace, and it doesn't seem to matter which type, there are some challenges you have in nonprofit workplaces that you might not have in others. What is missing in the workplace when it comes to leadership? What are some of the things that are missing? How is that impacting the effectiveness of both nonprofit and profit-making entities? Rocio: The most important thing that is missing is our humanity, the fact that we are not seeing each other as human beings, that we are more concerned about the work, that we are not thinking about our impact. We work in silos, and we work not just in a silo, but we think that our work only impacts us. In reality, our work impacts everybody in the organization. When I start thinking from a place of how this impacts the other individual- Let's take the engineering world. Engineers, I have the extraordinary ability to be able to make them dance. Presidents of associations don't even know what happened the moment they walk in a room. Why are they connected? Why are they dancing? Why are they engaged? Allow me to share. It's that humanity, connecting from the heart, connecting with individuals, and also understanding their world. What's going on in their world? We talk about how sometimes we hoard information. In that hoarding of information, we are withholding from our project and everybody. How we do anything is how we do everything. Everything we do has an impact on what we do and how we show up in the world. Emotions. When we talk about passive-aggressive, we know that 66% of individuals don't like their jobs. People have been chasing money. They went into careers because they thought they were going to make money, not because that's what they felt made them happy. I chased money. I know what that looks like. I know what that feels like. That's a lonely world. I have also come in from a place of I wanted to inspire. The more I drifted away from that, the more miserable I was. The more I walked into it, I was happier. How can this be? Do I get paid for this? I love that fact. That's where the happiness comes from. When we know that 28% of individuals are passive-aggressive, what does that look like? What are the implications? When we talk about an apple spoiling the bunch, that will happen. When we know that more than 89% of individuals who volunteer, and this is what's missing. We are not doing something that is outside of ourselves, contributing to others. When we know that that happens as a leader, I can support my people more. There are so many things. Those are the most important things. One other thing I feel is important is emotions in the workplace. They are real. They will make or break your business, whether we understand them or not. People are running around passive-aggressive. I have spoken inside of businesses and spoken with CEOs of companies, and in between. The thing that I see the most common is our feelings that are getting impacted. Anger, resentment, rage, shame. We don't feel good enough. We don't feel worthy enough to be where we're at. Wherever we may be, those emotions have an impact. If we are running around withholding in our world, it won't work. Hugh: There are a lot of stuff packed into this narrative you just gave us. You are expanding on something you said early on. How you had influence on others. Leaders are influencers. You mentioned that early and whizzed by a strong sound bite about how we do anything is how we do everything. That is so true. You worked that through your narrative. A lot of good stuff. There is a lot of resonance in what we teach. Some of the key points of resonance is we teach that leadership is founded in relationship. You're talking about the aspects of that. Communication is likewise. We call this passive-aggressive triangling. People are taking an odd position in a triangle against another person. You have this power position of a triangle. What is lacking is relationship. You pull those people together and expose that toxic passive-aggressive stuff. There is no way to deal with it without pulling a triangle together and exposing it to light. Fungus dies in the light. We just got to get it out. There are those unhealthy systems. Russell, she is giving us a lot. We have time for a couple more questions. A whole lot of content packed into this. I bet Russell has another great question up his sleeve. Russell: One of the things that we haven't covered yet is Rocio does work with a nonprofit called GlobalMinded. That is all about diversity and inclusion. We are almost due for a panel on that. I have read studies. I know that the Denver Foundation did a lot of work just a few years ago to help cultivate diversity and inclusion in nonprofits. How important is that to leadership? What does that look like from your perspective? Rocio: It's so important from a leadership perspective. Diversity and diversity of thought. Two important things. It's so important to include individuals. I have walked into rooms where people have had this problem for a very long time. For instance, I came in to deliver a presentation. It was a team of basketball youth. They couldn't get through. Some were doubting themselves. They didn't know what was happening. Because of my experiences in the world, I was able to walk in there. They have been working on this for nine months. I was able to walk in there and in 15 minutes help them shift. In 15 minutes, they were in tears because they were so excited. They were excited about new possibilities and opportunities. In 20 minutes, some people turned around and said, “We are going to church tomorrow just because of what we have seen.” To be able to take other individuals' experiences, when we invite those experiences to the table, regardless of the fact- I love background. I'd love to hire somebody from prison. I'd love to hire somebody who has had these life experiences because they know certain things that we're missing. I'd love to see- I heard that. I heard a lady who was hiring a number of individuals who were from prison. Why? She sat down and asked them, when she got past the idea this person was from prison, “Let's talk about marketing. How did you market?” “I never did.” “How did you sell drugs or do whatever?” This person started saying, “I studied my market. I did this and that.” When you can start taking those gifts, to me they are gifts, from every person, and encourage them. I work on a global scale. One of the most fascinating things and saddening things is so many people sit around a table and confess to me, “You know what, Rocio? I just don't say anything because I don't feel my voice counts there. I don't feel I have anything to say.” Wow, there is so much for you to say and contribute. I want to hear you. I want to hear your voice. In some cases, people show up and say, “I don't know if I should ask for this, or maybe I sound too arrogant for wanting this.” Arrogant? We should all have what we want out of life. A leader should help individuals tap into what's possible, not where this person wants to go. If we see there is much greater potential, take them to that potential. That's been the reason why the people I have worked with have had so much success. I have taken cohorts of people who have had 100% graduation from our programs. 100%. Unheard of. How did that happen? That happened because I saw their potential, and I led them to their potential. You don't want to scare people. You don't want to get them into freak-out zone. You want to get them into possibility and building those blocks overnight. I hope that answered your question. Russell: Part of our methodology as we go in and do live events, we bring people in, we put low-tech tools into their hands. Give them markers and sticky pads, things to write on, because one of the things that happens in a group dynamic is you get certain people who take over. The extroverts take over. Your people are your best assets. You're leaving brain power on the table when you have two or three voices out of a group of 20 who are dominating the discussion. It's leveraging that with people being your most important asset and taking time to develop them, give them ways to develop. That is something a lot of nonprofits don't do. They don't feel like they have the resources. You hit on a point earlier when you talked about taking time to sit and talk with people. That costs you nothing but a few minutes. You have some coffee and get to know people. That's a powerful thing: to get that buy-in and make sure every voice at the table is heard. Bring in new ideas. The idea of being teachable, being flexible, and there are so many things. Today's workplace, we have people from 18-80 everywhere. It's a different type of future that we're looking at as far as the work force goes and the way people approach things. How do we prepare for a workplace of the future from the perspective of being a leader so we can grow and develop them? Rocio: I love the question. I love the question. As a matter of fact, I presented on the national level about this specifically. In preparation for the future of the gig economy, which we're in, and looking at how we transform the world, for me, is to really encourage that connection individual to individual. Encourage individual stories. Encourage the authenticity and vulnerability. Understand the distinctions between being vulnerable and feeling vulnerable. Understand those distinctions. Being vulnerable is I get to share myself with you, what's important to me, what's near and dear to my heart versus feeling vulnerable, which is feeling attacked by someone. That throws me into survival mode. Encourage people to connect with each other. Truly listen. I heard you talking about listening to individuals. That is so important. Find a way. Learn about listening. What we have been doing, and I can almost guarantee you that there are very few people in the world like you guys who actually hear what people are saying. That is what makes extraordinary leaders. We are looking at 2-3% of people in the world who are extraordinary leaders. They have the ability to be able to listen because we feed back into that individual not only what they heard, also what's possible and that world of possibility. You're looking at many other themes of encouraging self-leadership. I am not here to do it for you. Even when I work with clients, I am not here to give them the magic solution. I am here to help them rediscover what's already in them. I am not here to teach them anything. That is fascinating from what other individuals are doing. It's perfect. It works out for them and their client. For us, what makes it sustainable is clients work with us for one year. That's the max. That's it. I have shared every tool and resource and helped you reflect through a process. Reflecting helps people. Figure out how to best coach each individual. Understanding their personalities. Those are the key things that are important for me. Hugh: Awesome. When you are talking about listening, when I teach leadership, I come from the perspective of a musical conductor. Listening is essential for us. It's not a fine-tuned skill for most leaders I meet. Listening happens with your ears and your eyes. There are subtle things people communicate in various ways. There are lots of ways we communicate when we never say a word. There is the listening that makes us aware of what's going on around us. This has been good stuff packed into a short interview. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* Rocio, as you are wrapping up this great stuff, what is a thought or challenge you'd like to leave with us, especially the people working in the hardest place in the world, which is the clergy or nonprofit leaders, working in this space with volunteers? What would you like to leave them with today? Rocio: Lead them with your vision. Get to know yourself. I will repeat that one. Get to know yourself; that way, you can get to know others. Through that, lead them with your vision. Authentically connect. Get to know their vision and how your visions connect together. Being very intentional about what you're doing. Invest in yourself. Invest in your mind. Invest in your people. Your people are your greatest assets. I love the fact that you get to help individuals from all over the world. You gentlemen help so many people through this. One of the most impactful things I have heard is my impact is your impact. When we can see that in another, when we can help them achieve that goal we are working on together, we know our impact is even greater. We did an assessment earlier this year. Just to know I by myself in a company with others, I could go so far, yet to go even further, to make that global impact, has to take a lot of individuals who are committed and who can see that vision. Because of that, we were able to reach 1.5 million in months. That would have taken years to achieve. Yet that achievement was it was because it was all of us. I make the invitation for those who want to come and join and connect with us. We have unstoppables. Www.SevenStepsToUnstoppableBook.com. We have a free webinar for individuals. You can come on board and send me a quick email. Whoever signs up and purchases the book through that can get a free one-hour webinar and go through that process. When you get more knowledge and get more understanding, you shift into wisdom. That is important. We can talk about this like you gentlemen do so beautifully. It comes from the heart. It's there for you. It becomes a part of who you are. Leadership is who I am. Russell: Rocio, thank you so much for sharing your time with us and connecting with our audience. Thank you, folks who are watching and listening for all that you do to make the world a better place. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Highlights and Key Points from Recent Interviews of The Nonprofit Exchange [caption id="attachment_258" align="alignleft" width="150"]Hugh Ballou Hugh Ballouand Russell Dennis, co-hosts of The Nonprofit Exchange provide highlights from interviews over the past few months. Russell Dennis   Russ and Hugh distill some of the key points and sound bites from these wonderful interviews with people making a difference in nonprofit leadership. Co-Hosts, Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis share highlights from the past 6-months episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Books   Here's my list of the top 10 books to develop and to stay on top as a leader: Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill https://amzn.to/2IenAVY  Napoleon Hill On the Air, Napoleon Hill transcriptions https://amzn.to/2Z7YZsS Extraordinary Relationships: A New Way of Thinking About Human Interactions, by Roberta Gilbert https://amzn.to/2MtNF8I The Tao of Leadership, by John Heider https://amzn.to/2IdLhO9 As a Man Thinketh  by James Allen https://amzn.to/2F1JOtF The Tyranny of the Urgent, by Charles E Hummel https://amzn.to/2IedMeH Transforming Leadership, by James Macgregor Burns https://amzn.to/2QGtX8e Master Leaders: Revealing Conversations with 30 Leadership Greats, by George Barna https://amzn.to/2EReb5J Transforming Power: Stories from Transformational Leaders for Encouragement and Inspiration, by Hugh Ballou  https://amzn.to/2IjH4sj The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Follow Them and People Will Follow You, John Maxwell https://amzn.to/2MuD51e Many good thoughts in each of these. I will be mentioning all of these in future sessions.  

Why horses are perfect PTSD co-therapists......Join together in advocating for effective trauma therapy with Michele Fisher Michele Fisher is a Univ. of Michigan educated ( early childhood development) and 16-year CASA volunteer advocating in court and in life for traumatized children in our foster care system. Ms. Fisher has made it her mission in life to connect changemakers with effective mental health offerings, to compromised populations. The impact of this groundbreaking work speaks to otherwise unattainable joy and functionality in the lives of traumatized Americans. The unconventional, yet proven effective, use of the horse as an active participant in the therapeutic process make this modality an unusual yet compelling area for exploration.     Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis again for this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We have interviews with thought leaders every week. Russell, this is somebody you found today. How are you today, Russell? Russell Dennis: Greetings, salutations from sunny Aurora, Colorado, not far from Boulder, where our guest is today. My friend Michele Fisher, who runs a nonprofit that supports people through equine therapy. She is unique in that she raises money for herself, and she funds other projects. We're going to find out a lot about her secrets and how she is able to juggle both hats and wear both hats and what she looks for, and to talk about how equine therapy is helping veterans and children all over Colorado. Hugh: Let's jump into this. Michele, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Tell people a little bit about yourself. Michele Fisher: Thank you, Hugh. Thank you so much, Russ. I am a graduate of the University of Michigan, and my degree is in early childhood development. I am a teacher and have been a teacher and lover of education from the get-go. I decided at a very early age that I wanted to try to help children in a different way, not just through traditional education means by being a teacher. I became a CASA worker. It's an acronym for Court Appointed Special Advocate. We are volunteers that are trained to work with foster children who have been abused and/or neglected. We help them in life. We actually become life coaches and advocates in court and in their family life for them. This showed me how there were many more opportunities to help not only one child at a time or one classroom at a time, but entire families and entire communities that were compromised or otherwise had survived some sort of trauma. When I lived in Lake Tahoe, I became certified in what was then called the NAHRA program, the North American Handicapped Riders' Association. Today, it's called PATH. It's a particular version or modality of equine therapy that primarily addresses the needs of humans on the autism spectrum and also people who have cerebral palsy. As I married my two new loves, my equine therapy and my CASA work and education work with children, I realized that if there was enough money available for veterans that have PTSD and children who have been traumatized, we would be able to have a permanent impact upon the mental health in our society. As I became more and more involved in the mental health arena through my CASA work and also through the equine therapy work, I was struck and dumbfounded by how remarkably effective working with the horses was with people who were frankly quite emotionally ravaged and even physically ravaged in their lives. This became almost an obsession with me to find out why this connection was so different from other forms of traditional modalities and therapies when we are trying to help victims of trauma of all sorts try to live normal lives. I say “normal” knowing there is nothing normal. Joy-filled lives, trying to live lives with fulfillment and with absence of emotional and mental pain. I started to volunteer as a horse handler at various equine therapy barns around my area in Boulder, Longmont, Lafayette, Lewisville, Colorado. I learned there is an entire tribe of incredibly skilled, passionate, knowledgeable people who are doing this work, not only here in Colorado, which happens to be a hotbed of equine therapy, I've learned, but also all over the country and in eastern Europe as well. I started The Healing Hoof in order to raise money for people who couldn't afford equine therapy in order to get the benefit of it. In that, I've also learned how to find the vibe of my tribe, which I think is a really important learning for executive directors and other individuals involved in nonprofit work. Whether you are awarding grants, receiving grants, or doing some mix of both, or whether you are not even involved in the grant world, but maybe you are accepting donations or sponsorships, no matter what means you are using to generate energy and create a new life for your nonprofit, I think it's incredibly important to make sure that you find the right people. That is what I mean by find the vibe of your tribe. I'll tell you a short story, an anecdote. I was a director of business development for a nonprofit in Lakewood for a while before I immersed myself fully into my own nonprofit. During that time, one of the very large mega oil producers in Weld County approached us and asked if they could partner with us in order to gain positive PR. Their philosophy was that because many folks in Colorado are opposed to fracking, and they work here and have to work with us—gee, did I just say something about my political opinions?—they have a hard time really getting community buy-in to what they're doing. What they came to us for was to spend a lot of money in several communities on the I-25 corridor in the heart of Weld County, where the bulk of their operations exist, to build things like rec centers or community places where the community could come, and they would name it after themselves so that the community could see them as a more friendly player. At that company, we thought that was a great idea, and they were willing to pay us a great amount of money to do it. Fast forward to now marketing this nonprofit. I am speaking to all thought leaders in the nonprofit sector. As a marketer and a business development person, my mind went to, Wow, how many veterans and kids could I help with their checkbook? Maybe I should approach them to become a sponsor. I did my research, and I looked at the websites, and I dug deeper and deeper into their fiscal plans and all of the information I could garner from each of seven or eight of the larger to mid-size operators. What I found was that they are not my tribe. The reason they're not my tribe is because of who they really are intrinsically and the way that they choose to present themselves to the community. I'm not saying this is true for all of the operators, but these large ones I did research on. What I found was deception. What I found was that they promised to show certain things or reveal certain things they really didn't. Even though I probably could've gone down that path and gotten significant sponsorship dollars for my foundation, I decided not to because in the end, the only real support that we will get for our individual passions and for our work that we're doing is from the people who are authentically attached to it passionately and in their hearts and souls, not just as a job each day. I tell that story because I think that as businesspeople and as responsible executive directors and volunteers and different kinds of people that work to make this world better on many different planes, sometimes we get lost in trying to raise money and making that the goal because it is paramount not only to our success but to our survival. Of course, we must keep our eye on that ball. But I ask for us today to open some space to consider being a little bit more selective and taking a long-term view in exchange for a shorter-term relationship that may end up working out for the short run, may get you some bad press or not. In the end, if it's not really part of your vision and your mission and your heart, then I don't believe it's worth pursuing, even if it glitters a lot. Hugh: Michele, how long have you been doing The Healing Hoof foundation?   Michele: We started in 2013. We have really just begun to become vibrant and active. Life got in the way a little bit with me between then and now, which prevented me from really going full force into this. Now, I am able to do that. We're having our first event this summer, August 11 in Longmont. We are going to have a really fun event with a very well-known a capella rock band called Face Vocal Band, which will be our headline entertainment there. We are looking to make a splash into the Denver market with lots of great grant funding and lots of opportunity for veterans and kids and people who need to address issues relative to their trauma. Hugh: Russell, you've been carefully paying attention. I'm sure you have some questions for Michele. Russell: We met fairly recently, and we have been working together to move things forward. The ability to build relationships that help you raise money and fund projects takes a bit of juggling. What I wanted to ask Michele is what are three things that you look for in collaborative partners, whether you are getting them to write you a check or you are writing them a check? Michele: The first thing I look for is authenticity. Are they really who they purport to be? Are they really doing the work they say they're doing? Are they passionate? Are they involved? Are they engaged? That is the most important thing: their dedication from inside to the work that they're doing. Then I look for their wherewithal. Are they emotionally balanced? Are they able to carry forward this work? Are they able to do the work they set out to do and accomplish their goals? Are they well balanced and able to be a leader? The third thing would be for whom are they the sphere of influence? When I start to gather my tribe of those I want to help and those I would like to help me help them, I want to make sure that we have the same spirit of moving money. I'm dedicated to moving the money that I receive so that it can work. Whereas I appreciate people who make a lot of money and have a lot of resources. If they are not willing to move these resources and allow them to be a part of the commerce of healing and making our world better, then they are not a good partner for me. And they need to smile. Russell: You don't smile very much. Michele: Not much. Russell: With that said, looking for these things in the collaborative partners, there are things that you do that make you successful. What would you say are the three key ingredients to your success, both before and after you started this project and this journey? Michele: #1, I am willing to say no. That is a difficult thing, especially for those of us in this world who have inherently large hearts and say yes too often around the table and then cry on the way home trying to figure out how to fulfill that promise. I think the ability to draw boundaries when it's appropriate, to say no to the opportunities that are not good for everyone, and to recognize what is really a win-win for all of the people and animals involved. For example, one of our strong tenements is to fund barns and equine therapists who take excellent care of their horses, who don't overuse the land, who try to use organic products and not a lot of chemicals. It's not just the mental health of the child or the adult that we're concerned about. We want to make sure that our horses are happy and healthy. They are co-therapists. They are important to us. They are sentient beings who we respect a great deal. That is part of what is very important to us, too. That does set us apart. There are some people who will do some equine therapy. Just come and pet my horse. Get on my horse and ride. There is a certain kind of therapy or equine experience associated with that, but we are pretty picky about who we fund. We fund therapists that are licensed and have experience. Depending on what you come to us with, what your maladies are, whether they're physical, emotional, mental, or some combination will depend on which barns we might recommend for you or what type of equine therapy we suggest might be the most impactful for your particular issues you're dealing with or way of life or concerns or experiences. Everything is individual. Russell: That is one of the hallmarks of effective collaboration when people come to you. Having that network of people and being willing to share the wealth so to speak. I know people who do certain types of therapies for certain types of people. We're well aware of both strategy and collaboration here at SynerVision. One of the things that Beth Cantor, who is an expert at nonprofit social media, she wrote a book called The Healthy, Happy Nonprofit. She talks about the importance of taking care of yourself, which you emphasized here. How important is it for nonprofit leaders to take care of themselves in order to be effective at actually serving others? What would you say are the three most important things a nonprofit leader could do to take care of themselves so they are effective at helping other people? Michele: Russ, it's not only important, it's critical. One cannot be effective if they are not well cared for. There is a reason that the flight attendants tell us to put the oxygen masks on ourselves first. If we are not fully present, and our cup isn't full, then we are not able to give to others fully, authentically, and give everything they truly need. I believe in two-hour massages. Not one-hour massages. After one hour, I'm just getting relaxed, and the Jello is just setting. Two-hour massages. Yes, it will cost a little more money, but it will go a lot further. Massages. Happiness. To do what really brings you joy, whether it's dancing or singing or drinking a cup of coffee at six o'clock in the morning and watching the sun rise or climbing up on my horses at midnight when I can't sleep or breathing or yoga or taking a walk or a bath or having a good argument or discussion or reading a book or knitting or sports. Whatever it is. Find out, like my good friend Cody Qualls from Face Vocal Band says, “What's your jam?” Get your jam on. Your jam. I think that's a really important thing to know about ourselves, and to give us permission to indulge in. If you have children, if you are involved in your work or extracurricular activities, or taking care of parents, we all need to fill ourselves up. There are some schools of thought that will have us believe that is a selfish act, or that it is not giving to take care of yourself first. We all have to negotiate that particular conversation and value amongst ourselves and the people we engage with. But there is nothing wrong with meeting your own needs. Eating healthy, great food. I have had people say to me, “I can't afford to eat organic,” and they have the latest version of the newest iPhone. It depends on what you value. If you value your longevity, if you value what you have to give, you will be able to give it for a long time and to give much more quality in terms of your knowledge, wisdom, offering, service, or products if you take care of yourself. That is one thing. Get massages. Engage with people. Find your own personal tribe. Laugh with people. Cry with people. Engage. For me, this might not be for everyone, engage with animals. That to me is a big part of my own personal well-being. I know it's not for everybody. But if you are a meow or a bark or a neigh, go do your neigh neigh. Find your neigh neigh. It might not be a horse. Russell: I can't be of service to others unless I'm at my best. You are by trade a teacher from the University of Michigan. As a lifelong fan of the Ohio State Buckeyes, I never thought in a thousand years I would meet a Michigan Wolverine I like as much as I like you. We just connected and clicked on so many levels. You started your career. You have been working very closely for a long time with children. You chose to serve children. As a Court Appointed Special Advocate in three counties, you still are serving children at a high level. Talk a little bit about the therapy work that you've done with children and why horses are perfect for helping children through any challenges they have. Michele: Why children? Because children are our future. Children are our hope. Children represent the continuity of our very being and species. They are so magically delightful that when they honor me by allowing me to pick them up or care for them or laugh with them, it just touches my heart deeply. I find them to be so varied and open. They teach me so much. I learn so much from kids that adults are just kind of a little bit jaded or dead sometimes. It keeps me alive. It keeps me willing to be a little different and think of things in a different way. It also allows me to see the world literally from a different point of view. When you look at the world from a three-year-old's view, and you are looking at mostly table legs or humans' knees, it's a very different way of looking at the world, and it gives me compassion for needing to work harder to look into people's eyes and to be able to meet them on a deep level. Children allow me to do that and foster that for me. I think they bring life and honesty and joyfulness to most situations. That is what draws me to children. It makes me feel so great when I am still in touch with an 18-year-old child who I got as a CASA child when she was 18 months old out of a horrific situation, and today she is a pediatrician. Russell: That sense of possibility is impossible among children. They're small. Talk a little bit about how being a Court Appointed Special Advocate played into you starting your own foundation. What we are talking about with PTSD is trauma at the highest level. Michele: So when I first became a CASA member, a lot of people would respond to the news by saying, “Oh my God, how could you do that work? I could never do that work. I love children so much, and I'm so sensitive to them.” I'm here to tell you that I can do the work because I love children so much. It hurts me to see what people do to children. Every single time, it breaks my heart. Even after 18 years—she's not a pediatrician yet, she's in school—after 18 years, I still cry. I still feel very deeply, but never in court, never in front of them. It gives me power, it empowers me because if a child can stand up and put one foot in front of the other after what they've experienced with so little resources and so little support, then who am I, this privileged white woman, to say that I can't go out and raise money and help people and do what I know I can do? I find that strength in those cases. I find my wherewithal. I find that I can take on a tougher family. I can take on a gang member. I can work with these people. I'm not afraid anymore. What they have taught me is how to grit my teeth and get what I want. It was a message that my father taught me that they are reinforcing that has been valuable. Even when it looks like there is nothing, I don't know if you know who David Pelzer is. A Boy Named It was the book he wrote; he was the spokesperson for CASA, as are Dr. Phil and his wife, Robin. But what they show us is how the human spirit knows no bounds and that if we will just reach out a little bit and give just a finger up, a hand up, an arm up, whatever we can afford to spread around, what blooms is so much greater than the small seed that we once planted. Now many of these children are leading productive, contributatory lives in society. I'm not going to say it; it would not be deserving to say just because of me. But I did play a role in their self-confidence, in bringing them hope, that there is an adult who will listen, and in learning to use resources. That keeps my engine going. There are plenty more children and people who are suffering that I can help through using my education, experience, mind, resources, and wherewithal to bring awareness to what they need. There are people who will help. We just have to ask the right people. Russell: This work is taking place with small children, with teenagers. Some have been in gangs, but they have experienced all of this trauma. City kids. Connectedness is important as far as reaching children. I'm sure a lot of our nonprofit leaders who watch here work with youth and children. Equine therapy is a unique, out-of-the-box, fairly new way of approaching working with these kids. Horses are very large animals.   Michele: Most of them. Russell: The sight of a horse, even for an adult, you look up and see this huge animal, they have experienced all of this trauma, and there is probably some fear going on around that. How do you ease the children and these young people you work with- Same thing could be with veterans that you work with. When people have experienced this trauma, there is a fear factor going on. How do you bridge that and let these folks know you're safe here so that they can ease into actually building the relationship with the animal? Michele: Great question. I use the principles of an author by the name of Gavin de Becker. He protects one of the presidents. I don't know if it's the current president or Obama. He is also an author. He wrote the book The Gift of Fear. The principle is that fear is useful. Fear exists in us for a reason. It is to be paid attention to, not to be overridden, ignored, or otherwise bulldozed through. Your question is so wonderful. Why horses? How do we mitigate fear? Horses help us to mitigate fear. Not only by virtue of their size and maybe other people's experiences or what people have heard about horses, they not only induce fear, but they also help us to bring our fears out and put them on the table. For example, no matter who the herd of horses that I pick, if I bring a client that has a boundaries problem, one of those horses is going to get up into her face and make that client deal with her boundaries. They know. They just know that what you're feeling inside. Why fear? We use the fear as a therapeutic form to become aware of, to understand that these are feelings to name what that really is that you're feeling, and to be able to talk about it and why. Where else in your life do you feel fear? How is this like other fearful situations? How is it different? There is a plethora of conversations that then ensue because we use trained therapists who not only take advantage of these situations, but they foster the discussion. They're talented and skillful enough to recognize when a person is feeling fearful or trepidation, and move in and relieve it and talk about it, so that processing occurs. Once processing occurs, then healing can start to live there. You can plant a seed of healing. Horses are remarkable beings. They are extremely intuitive. That old adage: horses know you're afraid, so pretend you're not. The first half is true, and the second half just doesn't work. If you're afraid, the horse knows you're afraid, so you might as well just stand there and say, “I'm scared,” or “Hey, it's okay, buddy.” If you walk in with a lot of bravado and pretend you know what's going on and go into the horse's space, he/she will let you know. They won't hurt you. But they will somehow recognize who you are and find a way to let you know that's not okay. As we get managed in our behavior by the herd, there are lots of opportunities for us to talk about our own personal herds. Who are our relationships? We let our clients watch the herd interact. There they are in their families. Every single one of them can find their mother, father, boyfriend, little brother, someone to bring up issues that are yet not dealt with and still wreaking havoc with their joy. Horses do that. They have a very large nervous system. Just being around them will calm you. Some people just want to stand near them. Some people just take chairs and go in the stalls and breathe with them or listen to them eat. It's very relaxing. There is a whole gamut of why horses work for certain people. The theme is that they do. Not every horse wants to be a therapy horse by the way. You can't just pull over by the side of the road, jump into a corral, and make yourself feel better. It may work. But not every horse wants to engage. Not every horse wants to engage with people who are triggered, or triggered easily, or on medication, or going through withdrawal, or having some of the human experiences that we do. Bu the ones that are are all there. Often, they've had professional lives being competitive horses, hunters, jumpers, Western, reining horses, English, equitation on the flat. Many of them were very successful. They don't have anything to prove. Now they're like we are. They are in the time of their life when they are settled and ready to give back. Russell: Just looking out, there hasn't been a lot of data collection on equine therapy and studies on how that helps people. You and I went to see some folks at the United Veterans' Committee of Colorado. When you introduced yourself, people gravitated to you right away because the first words out of their mouths were, “This works.” Talk about some of what people who are exposed to this and who take on equine therapy, talk about some of the benefits and results you have been able to give people. Michele: Sure, thank you. One of the things that really stands out in my mind is their ability to cope. They have a toolbox now that they didn't have before. I'm not saying it's the only toolbox they have. It is one that they will always have and one that works every time. Because of that, they are more grounded. They are happier. They are easier to get along with. The children represent less behavior problems in school. They get along with their parents, foster parents, stepsiblings, and siblings much better than they used to. They are able to be more proactive in their own lives. They found a way to not just blow up. They have found coping mechanisms. They found the ability to recognize when they are having trouble. The ability to recognize and having a toolbox are two things that can really change people's lives. Those are the kinds of things that we impart into their world, into their ability, their resources to be able to go to. Russell: One of the things, going back to our meeting with the veterans here in Colorado at UVC, that they spoke to, was the epidemic of veteran suicides. This has become a national issue. Although there has been a lot of awareness over the last four or five years certainly, the mental health profession has not really been able to make a significant dent in it. As a matter of fact, the first time I started hearing statistics seven or eight years ago, there were 18-20 veterans a day committing suicide. That is up to about 23 a day now. I know a lot of mental health resources have been put into that. A lot of people are doing work toward it. But we haven't made a dent in it. With equine therapy being new, people might say, “I've tried some other things.” What would you talk to them about as far as: Are you a candidate? Are you someone who would benefit from equine therapy? Who does equine therapy help? Who is predisposed to getting better results? How would you handle that type of conversation? What are some of the things you would say to those folks who may be on the fence about trying it?   Michele: I would say jump over that fence and come on over. I don't know if you know this, but I have a personal story with suicide. My husband committed suicide in 1999. My personal experience with it is part of what motivates me to really be involved with the veterans. The fact that I see it escalating and not decreasing is even more motivation to do it quickly and in a large way and to try and get involved from a legislative perspective and try to get equine therapy involved and try to get these men and women into groups that are where they belong and where the rubber meets the road in terms of what they're dealing with and how we can help them to have less of it. I'm not saying we're the panacea, but it is the best kind of therapy that I've ever been exposed to in terms of impact and the amount of joy that it allows people to feel in their lives for a longer period of time and in a deeper, meaningful, lasting way. Yes, suicide prevention is something that is very much part of our work. We take it very seriously. We have some people in our network who are specialists. Not only are they veterans, but they are also equine specialists. We feel like we're a really good resource for the veterans. We really want to make an impact and help to reduce that number down to nothing, or at least single digits, in the next year or two if we can. Hugh: It's an alarming number. I've seen it escalate. When we started out, I thought maybe she had a green screen image like me, but it kept moving. The horse that is grazing is right in the picture. This is from the ranch. I'm wondering, you're really articulate. You're really focused. You're passionate about what you're doing. What do you do for self-care as a leader? It's not a straight line developing an organization. You've been through some life trauma yourself. How do you keep yourself not only on the cutting edge of what you're doing, but balanced—you've set some boundaries as you mentioned—and growing as a leader? How do you care for yourself? Michele: I like to do workshops. I like to look for leaders who I admire and whom I would like to adopt some of their means of work. I go to different places and do workshops and educate myself. I further myself mentally and spiritually. I take time to expand, not only in terms of mental health and how we can help veterans and children, but also where I need to grow. I do therapy for myself. I invest in relationships and get a lot of feedback from people and take their advice. I actually ask people what areas need to be improved. As far as leadership, I like to go away with people. I like to go on things that are kind of like retreats or weekends and just focus on, or even have a lunch or spend time with other thought leaders in a relaxing atmosphere to really just share ideas and not pursue the agenda so that we can expand ourselves and be more elastic instead of just doing our work every single day. That is expected of us. How can we get bigger? How can we have new ideas and see things in different ways? I like to be involved with people in all different kinds of ways. Hugh: That's a great answer. What do you think, Russell? That is a balanced approach to staying centered as a leader. Russell: A podcaster James Altucher, whose books I've been reading, talks about that. He talks about improving 1% a day. I don't remember where he got that, but he said improving 1% a day helps him to get better. One of the things he does is write down 10 ideas every day. He says it's the ideas that move people. Ideas move things forward. He writes down ideas. Not all 10 of them may be good. But getting into the practice of doing that helps you expand, helps you grow and shift into who you are. We're big fans here at SynerVision of learning. We're building toolkits all the time for people to come into the community and take advantage of. Leaders are readers. That might be a green screen, but Hugh reads a lot of books. He's written some. Soon, we're going to be talking about some of the books that are out there that we've read that some of our guests have written, and talk about some of the lessons we learned from them and some things we can apply to put to work for ourselves. Along that line, talk to us about some things that you've written and read that have been helpful to you on your journey in making a difference in the lives of other people. Michele: I think my go-to resource is the book by Dr. Charles Whitfield on boundaries. He might not even be with us anymore. He was in his 90s a while ago. It is a go-to place for me because no matter what walk of life you choose, and no matter what kind of people you surround yourself with, it's important to be able to recognize what their boundaries are in order to maintain respectful relationships and boundaries that go deep and get intimate. It also talks from a psychological point of view why we need to be able to understand what our own personal boundaries are because it gives us room for our own mental health and our space to be able to stay emotionally fluid and healthy and available to be able to function and contribute as a human on the planet instead of taking away. I'm not saying people who are needy are taking away. I'm saying people who impose upon others and strip us of our dignity and our respective selves. That is one of the most important books I really like. Another great book is by the daughter of either H or R Block. Her name escapes me right now. Prince Charming Isn't Coming. It's a lovely book. I see you're chuckling. It's true. By the way, Prince Charming isn't coming. I love that book because it really reinforces that we are responsible for ourselves, and that we can take responsibility no matter what our learnings previously or understandings have been. We can move on at whatever age to know who we are and to take care of our own needs. I love that message in that book. Another one would be Judith Durek, Circle of Stones. You could read this book in an hour. It's a book about what your life would have been like if you had been offered all of the support from your tribe that you needed at every step of the way. If you were in the sweat lodge with all of your tribe members, and your elders were teaching you about how it is to be a man or a woman, instead of the kind of life that you led, what would that be like for you? It's a wonderful springboard into what if. It allows us to fantasize about what we still could be. I really love that. She presents it in an easy-to-read, lightly anecdotal format. I think those would be the three go-to places. Another author I must talk about is Andrew Sam Newman. You must listen to his TED Talk. He writes children's books. They are the best children's books I've ever read. I majored in kiddie lit. I read a lot of children's books. The reason they're so good and so meaningful is because of the values that they impart and because of the way they set up reading time and the way they foster intimacy and create joy and love around reading. He writes just the greatest books. Whether you have children or not, you must familiarize yourself with him. He has a delightful soul. Hugh: You have a little sparkle in your eye when you talk about that. Michele, as we wrap up this good interview, lots of useful information, we like for people to tell their own stories because it's encouragement for those who are starting out or for those who are stuck. You can make a pathway if you are determined to do it, but if you have a strategy and a team around you and a clear way of talking about your vision and why you should support it. We will give you a chance to share a closing thought, tip, or challenge. We have great leaders, but they need help to get them to where they need to be with it. You get to have the last word. Russell closes us out and says sayonara at the end. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* We close out this interview with you giving the last word to people. What thought do you want to leave people with? Michele: There are two things I would like to ask. First, I would like to say thank you for all of the work that you're doing. The two things I'd like to ask are these. Today. I'd like to ask you to do two things today. 1) Ask for something you have previously been afraid to ask for. 2) Spontaneously help someone. I want to thank you so much for listening today. I want to let you know we appreciate all of the work you're doing. Hope to see you August 11 in Lafayette. We're at TheHealingHoof.org. Russell: Thank you, Michele. This has been a really great interview. It's a pleasure working with you. I'm looking forward to continuing and making that impact here on the front range with the wonderful program you have. A lot of people out there. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Developing Relationships For Winning Partnerships with Barbara Jaynes Barbara Jaynesis the founder of Positively-Funded. A Business Development firm focused on making nonprofits THRIVE. Barbara came to the nonprofit sector after having spent over fifteen years in large scale commercial real estate development. Bringing with her savvy negotiation skills and durable relationship development between the private and public sectors. Positively-Funded assists nonprofits with creating authentic community allies. Engaging for profit partners in nonprofit missions to increase their revenue, decrease employee turnover and create sustainable resilient communities. Barbara focuses on winning relationships for the long-term. More about Jayne http://www.positively-funded.com  The Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Greetings, folks. It's Hugh Ballou in central western Virginia, where today the flowers are coming out, the sun is shining, it's absolutely a gorgeous day. These are the old mountains in the Appalachians. You got all the young, pointy mountains out there in Denver, Russell. Russell Dennis: We haven't filed them down yet. We have a lot of them, too. Hugh: You have a lot of them. We have a good guest that you actually talked to and got her on board today. It's an important topic people don't talk about globally, or even around the corner in their own communities. There is a lot more we can do. Barbara Jaynes, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Barbara Jaynes: Hello, Hugh. Hello, Russ. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Hugh: Tell our listeners a little bit about Barbara, your history, and why you're doing what you're doing now. Barbara: I'd love to, Hugh. Thank you. In 2006, my family and I moved to Superior, Colorado right outside Boulder. Before that, I lived in Cleveland and did inner city redevelopment. I worked in some of the toughest neighborhoods in the country and did urban renewal. I did some hospitals, large scale, ground up shopping centers and grocery stores. I loved what I did. It was my vocation. When I came to Denver, it wasn't as old, and people weren't as interested in my vocation and developing strong communities.  So I decided to go to the nonprofit sector and take my vocation and business skills there. I went to one of the most well-known nonprofits in Denver. I would bring them these incredible partners. They didn't know how to develop the relationships. They just wanted the check. You can't do that. Target doesn't want you to burn through a gallon of milk one time; they want you to do it 1,000 times. Nonprofits need to start thinking like businesses. I realized that. They needed to learn how to develop these relationships and know they are a value add. That's how Positively Funded was founded. Hugh: Positively Funded. That's your business and website? Barbara: It is. Positively-Funded.com. Hugh: What's that about? Barbara: I wanted nonprofits to think of a positive way to fund themselves. What I do is beneficial to both parties. It's not about give me, give me, give me. It's about going out and developing relationships that work. In the business sector you find your community allies and ask, “What is it that you need? Are you having a hard time engaging millennials? Are you having a hard time keeping employees? Do you need a better market profile? Do you need sales increased?” You work with the nonprofit to benefit yourself to help your business grow and benefit the nonprofit at the same time. Hugh: Russell, did you hear that? There is a synergy between for-profit and for-purpose businesses. What did you hear in that, Russ? Russell: It's all about collaboration. We had a great discussion on that. I have been wanting to get Barbara on the show for a while. We just started having discussions. There are people I am meeting all over the place right here in town that Barbara and I will be talking with soon. It never ceases to amaze me how when you are vibrating at a certain frequency, people start to turn up. I had a good friend who did therapy for veterans who is recently retired. Just ran into her this morning. We were having coffee. She said, “What can I do?” That is somebody Barbara needs to meet and other people around here need to meet. We can get a lot more done together. The traditional models of each thing don't seem to fit. I am starting to see people who are creating hybrid businesses, socially responsible businesses. They are taking their for-purpose enterprises in new directions and looking at mission-based revenue. It's all exciting. It starts with partnerships and being able to talk to each other. Barbara and I met for lunch one day. She is so easy to talk to. It could be that we are vibrating on the same frequency. It could be a mild form of group psychosis. Either way, the results will be the same if we collaborate. Barb's masterful at putting these partnerships together. She is from my hometown. It's not surprising. Hugh: It's the thin air there that helps inspire you, I'm sure. Russ, we preach the song of working together, of collaborating. The town where I live, Lynchburg, the University of Lynchburg, is launching a center for nonprofit leadership around the theme of collaboration. We have lots of nonprofits that distribute food to hungry people, and some who provide meals in addition to that. There is no overarching umbrella of how they can work together. If somebody is hungry on a Friday night, none of them are available for food. If someone is bound at home and can't use transportation, there is no way they can get to this food bank. We are putting together an umbrella organization for people to know that other ones exist, and where can we have a meaningful conversation? Barbara, let's start from the beginning. We have these different entities. From where I sit, I've been in history longer than you guys, today it's more important for the work of our nonprofits, whatever we call ourselves, our work is more important today because the world is so splintered and fragmented and toxic. We do the substantive work of doing good. But really, it works better if we work together. Where is the starting point? Suppose the scenario I have just outlined. There are a bunch of medical facilities that are free clinics. How do you start this conversation? How do you paint this paradigm of benefit? How do you take people who are interested and make them allies? Barbara: Hugh, the scenario that you put out is very common. One nonprofit does this, and another one does that. The nonprofits need to come together and collaborate as well. They need to look at where are the gaps that we need to fill in. We both do amazing things. No one nonprofit can be everything to the world. You might take a scenario and take those gaps and go out and find a community partner. Say, “We have this need. Here is what it is. We are not serving-” Take your example on a Friday night. While we both have food, we're not available to serve them. We don't have the infrastructure. We don't have the bodies to do it ourselves. How could we work with you to help solve this problem? Ask for the mentorship from those companies. When you work with a company, it's so important that you are working from bottom to top, top to bottom, hitting everyone. So go to their development people, their operations people, their finance people in the C-suite and say that you need mentorship in these areas. We have this problem. Help us solve it. Go to their new employees. Say, we could use some volunteers. The company you work for is amazing because they are helping to support the community and feed those who are hungry. We need your support as well. Talk about employee retention and the mental health benefits from volunteering. And engaging millennials. Millennials don't just want what's in the envelope at the end of the week. They want a purpose and a reason to be there. You the nonprofit can help give them that purpose.   Hugh: Connecting those dots is essential. There is this fear factor where we have our group of volunteers, and we don't want people to take them. We have our group of donors. Volunteers commonly work with several organizations, and donors donate to a bunch of organizations. Speak to this fear of having these conversations. How do we get people to the table to even explore the potential? Barbara: That is so true. When it comes down to donors and volunteers and corporate champions, suddenly everyone turns into 12-year-old mean girls. You have to stop that mindset. You cannot come from the mindset of scarcity. You have to come from the mindset of, I am a value added. Don't you want volunteers and donors who are passionate about what you're doing? If they're not passionate about you, they're not really your volunteers or donors. They might just be there for the day. Don't you want someone for the long haul to create an authentic long-term relationship with them? Shouldn't you find the right people for your mission that have the passion for it who are truly going to become your partners? Hugh: Russ is thinking on that one. He is bubbling up. Russell: You have to get the right people on the bus. That involves speaking to them in a way that resonates with them. It's finding that spot where you connect, and they get that. One of the things we were thinking about is running an organization, when do you come to the realization that you need allies in the community? Barbara: I'll tell you my life philosophy, which is how I raised my girls. The strongest trees have the most branches. I gave my girls a lot of branches. We don't have family here in Colorado. We moved to the other coast away from everyone. I gave them branches at church. We have branches in the neighborhood. They have branches at school. They had branches at sports. They had a lot of strength because they had a lot of different people in their lives to help nurture them because it does take your village. You should look at your nonprofit the same way. Do you have enough branches? Are you a strong four-legged stool? Do you have grants? Do you have community allies? Do you have individual donors? Do you have a fundraising program? You can't just rely on one leg to be a strong stool. You need a little bit of everything. If you think about how you diversify your personal financial portfolio, we're all told to do that, do that with your nonprofit funding. Is your portfolio diversified? Do you have four strong legs to hold you up? Or are you one grant away from closing your door? If you don't have those four strong legs, go out and make partners. Go out and find community allies. Bring the for-profit sector in to you and share your passion and your story. Russell: What does that process look like? People realize they need partners, but how do I start figuring out which ones I need and how to go about getting them? Barbara: That's a great question. For a lot of people, that is a conversation stopper. They're like, I know I need partners, but I don't know what to do. Then someone comes to your door and needs help, and it ends right there. You have to take some time out to focus on yourself and care for yourself and nurture your own nonprofit before you go the way of blockbustering by the dinosaurs. Look at your board and tell them, “We have this winning partnership idea that we want to collaborate with the for-profit sector for. Can I look at your LinkedIn contacts and see there might be someone there who you could introduce me to?” I am making it perfectly clear that I am not calling that person to ask for a check. I am looking for a true, authentic business partnership where I can increase their brand and community power, and they can help support us.” That is one starter right there. Russell: That is going right through the table and doing something for them first. Where can we add value? That is what a partnership is all about. It's not one-sided. It's about people bringing value. A lot of nonprofits have trouble looking at things that way when they are speaking with donors or potential donors. It's not a hat in hand kind of thing. We can together provide a value that is going to make a change in our community. If we can do that, then we will be able to make some impact. In terms of allies or partners, what qualities do we look for in a good ally, and what do we do to make ourselves good allies for people we want to partner with? Barbara: One of the things I always coach nonprofits on is look at the mission statement. Look at the values of the company. What they're doing right now, before you approach them. We really seem to have similar thought processes here and similar value traits. That would be someone I can approach. Look at their press releases. What are they growing? What are they talking about? When you do reach out to them, you can say, I read that press release and heard this, and this. That really aligns with what we're doing, too. Maybe we can help each other get where we want to be. Russell: You can do that. The difference isn't necessarily- if you have two or three organizations, you multiply your resources exponentially instead of sequentially. Barbara: Absolutely. That's important. When you go out and start this, my philosophy where I found, whether I was doing real estate development or nonprofit business development, is the 30/10/3 rule. I am going to call 30 people. 10 of them want to talk to me. 3 want to say yes, I like that, let's talk some more. Hugh: That's a great ratio. 30/10/3. Talk to 30. 10- Barbara: Call 30. 10 will want to talk to you. I hear about this. 3 of them want to bite into it and say, “This is a good idea. I can see where this is helpful to me and helpful to you. Let's talk.” Hugh: That's an important routine. Russell: Talk to ten for every one you want to secure. That works for any customer base: donors, volunteers, potential board members. I love the idea of making sure that you check that alignment. People like to talk with people who have done some homework and know a little bit about their organization or them as a person. You start asking questions about them. LinkedIn is a good platform. Everybody's favorite subject is them. They're their own favorite subject. It's finding a way to lift them up, and not blowing smoke. People can tell if you're just blowing smoke. If there is an authentic connection, leveraging that and talking about that. Hugh: This is what we call ROR, Return on Relationship. That 30/10/3 rule is ongoing. I hear people say, “I talked to an organization about it, and it didn't work.” I talked to an organization. I say, “I tried working out one day last year, and it didn't work either.” Underneath what I'm hearing you say, there is a continuity. You have to stick with it. There is persistence. Speak to that. We think we're bothering people. No, we're not. We're giving them an opportunity. Help reverse that paradigm, would you? Barbara: You need to have tenacity, just like a business would. I want this. I know I'm making a difference. I know my product is helping the community. You need to have the tenacity, the passion to go out with that and know you're not bothering people. You don't know what problems that business has. You have something to offer to help them with those problems. Do people know your brand? Do you need brand recognition? Do you need a new platform? Are you struggling in the hiring process? You can put a letter from us in your New Hire packet so when people interview with you, you're right there to talk about it. In your follow-up emails, we are right there to say how amazing you are in a video. We're your partnership in everything from sales to hiring. We don't know who we know who might want your products in their stores. Truly embed yourself in that culture. Make it a give-give. Hugh: Russell, do you have your head around what Barbara Jaynes does? Can you explain it for people who are listening to her for the first time? Russell: What she does is bring people together from multiple sectors to solve social problems and put good systems in place and help people have conversations. The conversation that we rarely have, when you're talking with people in nonprofits, is about value, the dreaded V word. That's what we're all bringing to the table. It's helping people understand that they bring value, and to quantify that in terms that makes sense to other people. She helps in bringing business systems. Thinking of your organization as a business, as a producer of value, and approaching it from that place so that you're out there offering everybody you come in contact with something of value, whether they are donors, providing pro bono work, a socially responsible business looking to support a cause, or a nonprofit looking to get support. It boils down to a couple of things: money and people. If you are short on either, at some point, you're going to fold. Hugh: Barbara, how did he do? Barbara: He did great. He is true. I am called the connector. That's important because I connect for winning relationships. He is right about the value add. I like to play the game, “Bigger and Better” in business. Did you ever play the game as a kid where you start off with a paper clip and go door to door? I have a paper clip – what will you trade me that is bigger and better? Then you go to the next door with what they give you and trade for something else. I do the same thing, with my nonprofits and business partnerships. I had a nonprofit I was meeting with and said, “A church came and built our fence a couple weeks ago.” “How did you thank them? How did you follow up?” We are going to send them a letter. “No, no, no. They have parishioners. You go and ask their pastor, ‘We want to thank your congregation in person. Could we have five minutes to stand up after your announcements and personally thank them and let them know what building this fence meant to us and talk about your charity?'” You have a captive audience of 300 or more people. Don't walk away from that. That's not a thank-you letter. Go get them. Hugh: Whoa. Did you hear that? Maybe we should do that. Russell: We have to work on this. When we do get you here to town, we will take you to McDonalds. Then we will swap that from Morton's or something like that. That is too far. The idea is now firmly planted. It's like toothpaste. It's not going back in once it comes out. Hugh: You know who your friends are, don't you? Russell, I heard her talk about installing or teaching business principles to nonprofits. I'm not sure that all businesses have those skills either. They think they do. They have some cash flow that masks their ignorance. That's what Russ and I spend our life doing: helping nonprofit organizations think in terms of cash flow and budgeting and marketing and all the things businesses need. I find sometimes that even businesses that donate or buy sponsorships for nonprofits don't know how to get the benefit of that sponsorship. They donate, but they don't know how to say, “What's this money going to create? What difference will it make?” They don't know how to ask that. When they make a business decision to use marketing money to sponsor an event, they don't know how to get a return on that investment. Is that part of what you help both sides explore? Barbara: It absolutely is, Hugh. It's so important because I teach this to both sides. You need to say, for every $10 we bring in, we provide a box of groceries to a family that will feed them for a week. What nonprofits do with money is magical. For every $20 we can take care of 10 new dogs in our shelter. When you quantify it like that, it lets the business know, Oh, I am donating $5,000. It translates to 500 dogs. This is what I can do. On the nonprofit side, you should always be talking numbers. Numbers ring true with millennials and with businesses. When you say to someone, “This is what $50 can do,” I didn't know you could do that with $50. I would have donated $500; I didn't realize I would have upped my ante. Let them know from the beginning, if you're doing an event, this is how much we want to raise. This is what it breaks down into. For every $20 increment, this is what it will change. Same on the business side. Let people know, Hey, this is what we did last year for nonprofits. Here is the impact for each one of them. Hugh: There is a lot in the ask. I served a church in Atlanta of 12,000. The preacher raised $18 million for the next phase of the building program, to double the size of the facility. He did that in 14 lunches. I was sitting in his office one day, and he had the cash before they dug any dirt. He is reading the newspaper where one of the people he had talked to had given $4 million for a building at one of the local universities. He called that guy up and said, “I'm sorry I asked you for such a small amount.” Russell: When you hit that sweet spot, we underestimate ourselves. It's important to set those expectations. What is it that you want? I think the way to do that would be approaching a foundation or corporation is to look at it that you want to try to get, but find out what they want. Barbara is good at helping them find that because they don't always know what they want to get. She sits with them and works with them and asks them what they want to try to do. You can't get goodwill out of a Madison Avenue magazine spread. It comes with being connected with people, making a difference. If everyone is clear on the common goals, you can set some measures. With donors, it's important to keep in touch with them. After they have written a check, let them know what the money is doing. The money should be quantified not just numerically, but in terms of story, in terms of people who are getting your services. How far those dollars are going. Thanking them. Highlighting some of them. This is what your support is making possible. They hear from you much more frequently than when you need money. if the only time they hear from you is when it's time to write a check, they will run for the hills. Barbara: You are so right. That is not the thing to do. It shouldn't be, I've gotten my check. Life is beautiful. Make that relationship true. Ask them, Can we do a quarterly updated video for your staff? Every quarter, let's update them and let them know the impact and what is going on. You want to triple their Roladex, and they want to keep your employees. You want to embed yourself into the culture to support them and support your nonprofit. You do a video that goes out in an email link to every employee, thank them, let them know what you have done with their money. It's amazing we have these wonderful programs, and we are able to serve so many more people. Last month, we had 50 people come in with this problem. We have to figure out how to solve this. Will you roll up your sleeves and help me solve it? You engage them beyond money. Sweat equity, mentorship, be there for me. I want to hit on something Russ said before about knowing who your audience is. I firmly believe you don't just go out and throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks. So many people will say, “You're a big company. Write me a check.” You have to have a reason. Start with a why. I really researched you. I know what you do. We have the same vibe. We're good for each other. Let's talk about this. Russell: A lot of that goes into the psychology of their branding. You have Nike that says, Just do it. If your message resonates with something along those lines, you get an idea of you look at who is in their commercials. Who are the people they are trying to reach, attract? How many of those people are in your tribe? They want that exposure, that goodwill. It's important to look at that to see how we align with them. Just as importantly, to use language that resonates with them to start a conversation. I think the conversation starts with trying to find the right person. That may not always be somebody with a sponsorship label. It may be somebody in marketing, or have another title. They have different pockets of money. Only a certain number of dollars are earmarked for sponsorship. They could support you elsewhere. It's having that conversation and asking them questions with what you have in mind, and bouncing something off of them. It's trying to dig up information that's not in their literature to get a feel for the person and start building that relationship. After you have an idea of where they're going in that particular point in time, then you tell them about your project. After you have gathered enough information, you ask if it's okay to send a proposal. But these folks are busy. You want to get a 15-mintue interview. Nothing will annoy them more than asking questions that are on their website that they spent money to make. Doing that homework is important. That is what Barbara is masterful at helping you do. Barbara: They have to know that you know who they are. They have to know why. Why have you called me? You need to have a good answer. I went to a meeting with one of my clients. The owner of the company across the table said, “Why did you call on us?” I could tell them exactly why. You belong to this association, and this technology association aligns with what this charity does. He's like, Thank you. You know who we are. We walked out with a check. It made the difference in the world. To take that time, to know who you're talking to, and why you're talking to them. Russell: You don't always expect to walk out with a check on the first visit, but if that's the end result, be open to receiving that. Barbara: My client was very happy. It really opened their eyes to the way that I do my things. I relaly want my clients to learn from my playbook and to be able to run with it and do it on their own. I don't want to be there permanently from them. As your community needs change, you will be able to go out and meet those needs. Russell:We get back to this discussion on value. A lot of businesses quantify that by their products and services. How can a nonprofit do that? A lot of people will sit there and actually have a limited view of what's valuable to other people? What are some things they can do to demonstrate value? Barbara: Know your data. Know who you're helping and how many people you're serving. When you are meeting with that person, you have your numbers and alignment. When you ask that company what they need, do you need us to write a thank you letter that you can send to your vendors to let them know what a community ally you are and support you are? Do you need us to do a video to your vendors to let them know what you're doing? It triples the Rolodex for the nonprofit and puts new eyes on them as well as help the business. Do you need us to do a video for your customers so when they purchase something and get the receipt, I am there to thank them personally and let them know how important you are in the community? They are not getting a pair of shoes; they are getting someone who makes a difference in the world. That's who they're buying from. Tell us what you need. Russell: You mentioned vendors, and I don't know that people think that. Part of the value of your board of directors is the relationships they have. I don't know if people think in terms of we don't have a relationship with XYZ, but we have people on our board who have relationships with W company who is a vendor of XYZ. Do you frequently find that is a good way to approach an organization? Barbara: It is. Using vendors is important. They want that winning relationship with their internal customers. It creates even greater synergy. It gives the company that you want to ally with a better story that they can tell to their vendors. We are not buying copy paper from just anybody; we are buying copy paper from the company that does this. You have their community story, and you have their back. Make sure you are wearing each other's jerseys. Russell: What do you think of that, Hugh? Are you ready to go out and buy a Cleveland Browns jersey and a Denver Broncos jersey just in case it all goes sideways for the Redskins? Hugh: I gather those are football teams. I am not much of a football fan. I am a NASCAR guy. I am in the South. This is intriguing. Let's talk about your organization, Positively-Funded. How did you come to that name? Barbara: I wanted to change the way that nonprofits thought about funding. Not to think that you have to go out with your tail tucked between your legs and grovel and I gotta go out and beg because the lights are getting turned off. No. You have a value add. You have something positive to give to the business world beyond the community that you provide services for. Get out there and be positive with it. I have something to offer. I want to be your partner. I want to make your business thrive so that my community thrives also.   Hugh: It's a win-win proposition. I heard Russ say earlier in the conversation about finding out what other people want. It's something that he introduces to a conversation on finding board members or donors. It would occur to me the same thing would happen here. Find out what the business is interested in. You had done your homework, so you walked out with a check. You had studied what that company was about. I can't tell you how many times that doesn't happen with companies I know. They misspell the person's name in a pitch. That is not a good start. How did you get the name for this company? How did you think of that name? Barbara: It's what I just came up with. I wanted to make a difference in the way and change the mindset of how nonprofits felt they needed to be funded. You don't need to beg. This is a positive thing. You are offering something positive to those financially investing in you, sweat equity investing in you, pro bono. You have something great to offer. Hugh: Let's do a summary here. What are the top three to five mistakes that nonprofits make when they approach a company for some sort of connection, partnership, funding? What is the remedy to those mistakes? Barbara: I think the very first thing is do your homework. Study who you're going after, and know why you're going after them. Don't go in cold. Hugh: The mistake is they don't know what the company does, or who the person is. They have not honored that person at all. Barbara: When you talked about when you're sending out a letter and misspelling the name, I advise to never blindly send out a letter. Do not do that. I research my companies. Call them first. Have a conversation. Then send a follow-up email. Thank them for their time. If you leave a voicemail, send an email. I left you a message this morning, and I want you to know why I left that message. Hugh: When you call a company, who do you ask for? Barbara: It depends on what the nonprofit really needs. You typically look at who is doing their community investments? Most companies have a community investment team. They have an employee engagement team. You ask for those things. Those types of departments. Hugh: The first mistake is know your enemy. You need to know your prospect. The problem is they don't know who they are, know about them, know the personality. The remedy is study who they are and get educated before you even make the first call. Barbara: Absolutely. That is your very first thing. Know your audience. Hugh: Give us a few more. What is a mistake nonprofits make? Barbara: The other thing is going in for the kill, and I just want the check. No. Develop the relationship. You don't just want that check. You need more than that check. You need partners. You need support. You need a strong four-legged stool. Ask for it. I need mentorship. Your CFO, I need help with my books. I need to understand how to financially run better. Give me mentorship. I need from your operations department. We are going to replace our roof in three years. I don't know the first thing about getting a roofing contractor. I need to start saving for that now. I need to know what to look for. What is my best roof to have in the long term? Ask for the help. Ask for the right people. Go bottom to top. Go for their C-suite. Go for their board. Know those people. Research them. Know that you need more than just a check. You need sweat equity and volunteering, too. Hugh: Not knowing your prospects. Get to know them. Go in there thinking it's one and done. Not working on long-term relationship. What's another? Barbara: Not doing your follow-up and diligence. Not keeping that relationship fire stoked. Not staying in touch and saying, What can we offer you? I see that one of your goals is that you want to hire 10 new people. How can I help you with that? Do you want a letter from us saying how amazing you are that goes into your interview packets? Do you want a video for a thank you? How can we help? Do you want an opportunity, so on that person's first day of work, I know a person who does this, every employee's first day of work, they don't show up at the company. This is our charity. You will go there and stock the shelves of this food back and spend the day with them. Tomorrow, you show up here. Hugh: That is great. That's three really good ones. Do you want to float another one? Or is that good? Barbara: I really think it's important that you have your number ducks in a row. Know your numbers. Know your numbers internally. Know how they work. Know your company's numbers. I want to know what your turnover rate has been since we have started this partnership. I want to know your brand recognition. I want to know about your sales. I want to know about your customer satisfaction. I want to know that we have impacted you in return. Hugh: This is also reciprocal. When you are asking for money, you want to ask for a specific amount. There are some people who say, “I want $20-30,000.” That's not specific. There is a $10,000 spread; it doesn't sound like you're careful with my money. It's their money until they give it to you. Russell: Specificity is important. The universe will hear $20,000 if you say $20-30. $20,000 will show up. That's what you put out there. That's what you want. It helps to be specific. It sounds like all of these things, as far as looking for ways to be of service, can help build the long-term relationship with a business or between a business and nonprofit. What are some other things? What are the most important things, say for the business to do, or for the nonprofit to do? Maybe two or three things that are important for each of them to do to make sure that you can build and maintain a long-term relationship. Barbara: I think the very first thing in your follow-up plan is have a regular communication strategy. We're going to talk. Whatever department is your go-to person, have a standing monthly conversation. Update each other. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Great. This is how things are going on our side, and here is your impact. Keep that communication going. Offer to spend time with their employees. Do a lunch and learn quarterly. Talk about how what seniors need. Here are the latest stats in America for seniors. Here is their food scarcity, transportation problems. Let us come in and talk about our wisdom in our sector, and how you can overcome these things, and how we work together. Hugh: Brilliant. Barbara: Invite us to come to your association. Whatever your trade association is, bring us along. Let us be your dog and pony show. We're there for you. Hugh: That's also part of top of mind marketing. They don't forget you because you're there, and you are always looking to add value to the other. There are business leaders who see nonprofit as their duty. I wrote my check, and I'm done. Rather than looking for the win-win, which takes time. I like your set of questions. Do you work just in Colorado? She has a superior attitude, Russell. I don't know why. Just in Superior. Do you work all over? Barbara: I go beyond Superior, Colorado. Boulder County is my home, that's for sure. I have worked with international nonprofits. I have worked with national nonprofits. I have worked with statewide nonprofits. I work with little babies with a staff of four. Everyone starts somewhere. Everyone can create winning partnerships, no matter what your size is. Hugh: Is there a place on your website where people can ping you and have a conversation with you to explore possibilities? Barbara: Absolutely. My phone number is on there. My email. There is a Contact form you can fill out. Whatever medium is your comfort zone, be it phone or email. Hugh: This is good stuff. I'm a conductor by trade. Musical conductor. Not railroad conductor. The composer/conductor Ralph Long Williams from Britain is known to have said, “Music did not reveal all of its secrets to just one person.” We can say that about funding, partnerships, leadership. It's good. We have gotten some wisdom from a lot of people over the four years. Thank you for your time today. *Sponsor message from Wordsprint* The messages you have shared today are close to our heart. We wish people in every community would have some wisdom to share. Barbara, I am going to throw it to you for a closing tip or challenge. Barbara: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. This is wonderful to be able to share the good news of you have something to offer. Go out and be positive in your funding. Don't tuck your tail between your legs. I'd like to challenge nonprofits to look at your stool. How many legs do you have? How strong are they? Go find your community allies. Look beyond your traditional scope. What can I do? What do I have to offer? How can I collaborate? How can I be a good community collaborator, not only with the for-profit sector, but with other nonprofits? There is strength in numbers. Go out and be positively funded. Russell: Thanks always, Barbara. I am looking forward to having lunch with you later this week. That is the beauty of the bonus I get, Hugh. Barbara is in my backyard, and we are going to talk to people here and do what we can to come together and make some impact. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Day #24: No Job Descriptions A job description is a form invented by HR departments to validate their job. It has taken form as a list of tasks, which is a form of micromanaging.- Hugh Ballou         I love to borrow the quote from a colleague of mine that the Job Description is an invention of the HR department, which is the department of Human Remains. That’s not very flattering. HR professionals are important watchdogs for compliance in organizations. In fact, organizations without this department are in jeopardy of breaking the law. So, it’s really not a joke. It’s just bad practice. Having no document is worse than having a bad document, however, not much worse. Having a checklist of tasks is the document I have mostly seen. It’s not a document that inspires high-performing team members to do their best. A new best practice for my teaching is developing a “Position Description” for a specific job or position within an organization. The elements of this document are also the checklist for hiring employees, consultants, or board members. It’s a description of an area of performance with specific exceptions clearly defined. Here are the elements for a Position Description: Title of the Position Describe the Position in a Few Words Competencies Needed Role and Responsibility Culture Fit - Alignment with values and principles Performance Expectations - updated monthly or quarterly What’s important here is that a person has a performance track. You, as leader, guide them on that track. The role and responsibility might be “to create and implement…” or “to manage…” It’s a very specific track for their work, but not defining every single thing they are expected to do in that job. If the right person has been engaged for the right match in performance, then let that person define how he or she will accomplish said deliverables over time.Point people to end results, and not to activity.   Next: Day #25 - Evaluations

Are Websites Dead? Pipp Patton Shares Ways to Engage New Supporters Pipp I Patton is the co-founder of Search Intelligence LLC a digital marketing agency based in Tampa Florida. They specialize in SEO, sales funnels, and Facebook marketing. Pipp in a former life was a yellow pages rep back when your yellow pages directory was the search engine of choice. Pipp is a recovering golf addict, loves to travel and enjoys finding new and interesting restaurants with his fiancé. Pipp says, "Nonprofits should be using all the current sales and marketing technology to build their brand and maximize their revenue production." More about Pipp HERE Email Pipp HERE Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: Welcome to another episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. It's Hugh Ballou and my colleague, Russell David Dennis. How are you today, Russell? Russell Dennis: Greetings, everyone, and welcome. We are doing great in the Denver, Colorado area. Hugh: Russell, you and I have been doing this for a while. Overall, The Nonprofit Exchange started four years ago. We have hundreds of episodes from really good people. Our guest today was here once before talking about a different topic. We are talking about a related topic. I thought it was so important that we should invite him back and dig a little deeper into his intellect. Us old guys, we have earned the right to talk about more than one thing because we have been around the block a few times. Let's welcome back Pipp Patton. He is from the central Florida area, in Orlando. Pipp, welcome.   Pipp Patton: Thank you. Appreciate it. I am in Tampa technically. That qualifies as central Florida. Hugh: I know where Tampa is; I used to live in St. Pete. Pipp: I know you did. A little on my background. I currently have a digital marketing agency, which I've had here in Tampa, co-founded with a partner about eight years ago. In a former life, I was a Yellow Pages rep. I sold them back when the Yellow Page directory was the search engine of choice. That has now changed. What was interesting about that was it gave me a lot of insight to a lot of types of businesses. Since then, my focus has been helping local businesses primarily market themselves, which is what I enjoy doing. I found the people who own local businesses are folks I enjoy working with and getting to know and helping succeed. It is rewarding for me and for them. When we spoke a while back, we talked about Google grants, which are available to the nonprofit sector. Google Ads availability, which Google will provide. We will visit that again at some point. Today, I think we are going to talk about the idea of websites are dead. Hugh: We are. That was our teaser headline. It's about more than just one thing though. Where did you get this expertise from? Pipp: After being in Yellow Pages and working with local businesses for 14 years, I got out of that and really spent a couple of years taking care of my mom who needed some attention at that time. In the process, I was interested in technology. Google was starting to raise up and become well known. I remember having to wait early on to get a Gmail address because when they first started Gmail, you couldn't just get one. You had to get on a waiting list because they were rolling them out slowly to make sure things would work. I remember waiting for that. I began to learn more about websites and marketing online and how that could help local businesses. As I talked to local businesses that I knew, they were confused about having a website or not. How am I going to market myself? Yellow Pages doesn't have attention anymore. TV and radio have become fragmented. It's all about in today's world where are people's attention. Where is their attention focused? Can I get my message in front of them? Today, people's attentions are on their phones. This little device has changed the world. As powerful as this device is right now, within the next 10 years, it will become vastly more powerful and important, especially from a marketing standpoint. Hugh: You gave us a couple of topics. Are websites dead? But your overall thought was how do we create a sales funnel? We are talking about a nonprofit, Pipp. Why do we need a sales funnel for a nonprofit? Pipp: One thing in particular that it can be used for is in the fundraising arena. I have seen a lot of nonprofits and regular businesses that will spend money on advertising, Google Ads and other things. They will send traffic to the homepage of the website. But it doesn't actually focus a visitor's attention any one place. People get distracted very easily today. When you land on the home page of somebody's website, there are 42 things you can click on: drop-down menus and social media links. In a lot of cases, people have wasted their advertising dollars just sending a visitor to the homepage of their website. If they are trying to get them to make a donation, if they are running a charity golf event for someone to sign up, if they want them to join a newsletter, if they want to announce an upcoming event, maybe it's a holiday coming up. Maybe they are starting to promote some Easter activities. When you are going to direct people for a particular purpose, where they will land needs to speak solely to that purpose. Mostly it doesn't. That's why I say the website is dead. A website is really just a brochure as opposed to what we'd like to call a landing page where you can direct somebody's attention for the purpose of getting them there. Hugh: You're bringing them in from a noisy world, and you create more noise, so they don't know where to go. I will give you an acronym that I learned from Tom Antheon, who teaches speakers how to build businesses: HITS is how idiots define success. You don't care how idiots track success. It's not how many hits you got; it's how many conversions you have. Websites. I will agree with you. I see a lot of dead websites. I have heard this from clients I've had, who had a large team and produce big web experiences for state parks, for government, for universities. There wasn't just a pretty thing up there. Tom had also talked about web designers being propellerheads. We create something that is pretty, but no engagement factor. You hit on a big one in that websites are in fact dead because we don't know how to engage people with this experience. Let me throw that back in your arena. Any comments? Pipp: Absolutely. That is the case. That is what we are finding today. Let's say a church has a large email list, and they want to do an email promotion for a particular purpose. They have to send that traffic to a particular place if they want to get the results they would like to have. A website itself is not going to make that happen. It needs a landing page. A landing page can be part of that website, or it will be a mini website, what I call a sales funnel. If you direct someone there, then you have the ability to extract the result you're looking for. When they get there, they only have a couple options: follow through and do what you're asking them to do, or click away and go somewhere else. As an example, outside in the regular for-profit sector, there are a lot of companies, large and small, who spend huge amounts of companies on ads online, Google in particular. All of them spending significant dollars, five figures a month or more, are sending that traffic to specific landing pages. If an attorney is advertising for an auto accident, he wants to send that traffic to a specific page that talks about that topic and gives some of his testimonials that speaks to his credibility. They have options. One is to call him or to send him a message asking for his consultation. In the e-commerce world, I have a funnel that I created for Christian Family Life recently. All it is designed to do is to get people who are interested in finding out more about their small group study for marriage ministry called Two Becoming One. I recently did a funnel for a jeweler. Jewelers are people who don't take advantage of digital media at all. One of the benefits of that is they can choose to buy something, and in the order process, you have the ability to get them to buy something extra. The same can be applied to the nonprofit sector. If someone agrees to make a donation, then in the checkout process, there may be other things you can offer them that they would like to participate in that would generate more revenue for the nonprofit and doesn't require any extra work of the person who is making the purchase or the donation. We have a mechanism called a one-click upsell. Let's say you go to a page and say, “Yes, I want to buy this item.” You're selling a T-shirt. You want to buy a T-shirt. You put in your credit card information and are ready to check out, and at the bottom of the page, it says, “By the way, would you also like a hat that matches? They are normally $25, but you can have one for $15.” All they have to do is check Yes, and boom, they don't have to go back and put their credit card information in again. It's a powerful thing. When people have already made the decision to spend some money or make a donation, in many cases, you can offer some other things that will entice them to spend more money or make further donations for a different purpose while they are in that mindset. Hugh: It requires knowing what you want. I think building out what Russ and I do is help people build out their strategy so they know all the things they want to accomplish. Someone like you can help them pull it off. We have this big gap between desire and implementation. Part of implementation is on your side. I am going to ask you another question and let the smart guy ask some. We're talking today about websites being dead, but they don't have to be dead. They are an active, organic engagement tool. We're talking right now about the funding piece. We just say, “Oh, make a donation.” We don't create the language or make it a simple process. As they are checking out, you can upsell them. The other option is, “Here are some committees. Here's a place you can volunteer.” They are investing in the outcomes of the organization, but they can also invest with their time. Maybe there is a way to share this stuff with other people while they have the site open. I'm sure you have lots of tricks up your sleeve, but I heard you say at the beginning of this that when people get there, we drive traffic. That's one factor. But what do people do when they get there? What is the most important thing you can say to people thinking about updating or beginning to build a web experience for a nonprofit or church or public service organization? What's the advice you'd give them as they are starting up? Pipp: As they are starting up, I believe every business needs a website. Websites are dead for a certain purpose. Everyone should have one as a general information point. As far as a start-up nonprofit, yes, I believe they should have a website that when someone lands there, they can quickly understand what that nonprofit is about. What is their purpose? What is their mission? What are they trying to accomplish in the world? Russell: There is a lot to that. With the website being dead, one of the things that confuses people and leads to them being stuck is the availability of so many tools. You spoke to the landing page, which is for a special purpose. What are some of the other tools in addition to the website that are effective for nonprofits? Why do these work well together? Pipp: One thing right now is we are probably at a point where it's easier to build a brand online than it ever has been before. With that, that involves making a commitment to social media. I had a meeting with a young lady yesterday who used to be a Tony Robbins coach, and she is launching a coaching business of her own. She needs to be doing a Facebook Live every day. Take that video, whatever that is. It could be 5-20 minutes. Download that video, and put it up on YouTube. Then go through that video, and find nuggets of wisdom. 60-second clips. Post those on Instagram. We will take that video and separate the video and audio. Put the audio on a podcast. If we go a step further, she can take the audio transcribed and create a blog post. Parts of the video can also be posted on LinkedIn. Now you have the ability to put out media on a daily basis to a whole bunch of channels. Why is that important? That's important because, like I held up the phone before, it's a battle, if you will, to get people's attention. You don't know where everybody's attention is. Mine might be on Facebook. Yours might be on LinkedIn. Hugh might be on Instagram. Some people spend a lot of time on YouTube. Some folks like to read. Reading is still a thing that people do, I think, especially if they are over 40. Russell: Hugh happens to be surrounded by Yellow Page guys. I sold Yellow Page ads during college. Once again, he's out on the fringes, but that's ok. Hugh: My worst nightmare. Russell: There are so many things here that we can use. What we are all about here is strategy. With all of these tools available, and you just mentioned one way that someone can take one single piece of content and spread it across six platforms. Do you find confusion out there about how to use these platforms? What is the best way to approach a social media strategy? You want to have a brand. Don't different people show up in these multiple places? Pipp: They do. You want to know who your audience is. Ideally, as you guys know, if you are building a strategy, you want to create an avatar. Who is that person you're speaking to? You want to do the best you can with that. As far as social media strategy goes, I work mostly in the for-profit sector, I tell people to put out your best content. Put out your best stuff. Most people don't want to do it themselves. They will find someone to do it for them. The more you give your best information, the more you establish yourself as the expert, and you become branded and create content that people want to share. What's interesting about Facebook is when you start doing this, you may not have anybody watching your Facebook Live. But the more you do it, the first time you do it, you get one person. The next time, it's two or three. As that number begins to grow slowly, Facebook realizes there are people staying on listening to this for 5-10 minutes. We will start showing it to more people. Facebook knows more about all of us than we would like anyway. They will share it with who they determine to be like-minded people with the folks who are watching. It takes time to do it, but it doesn't take dollars to do that. One great thing about doing this social media strategy is if you are doing video content, you will find over time that more posts will get more engagement than others. If you find a post with a higher level of engagement, you can download that video and use it in a paid advertising strategy because you know the content has good engagement already, so it will do better if you put money behind it than if you were just starting to spend money on a campaign not really knowing if you had engaging ads or not. It can help you in that regard as well. Russell: It makes sense. That's part of being effective: staying on track and tracking everything you do. We encourage people to do that. What would you say is the best approach to building a brand, given that there are so many options? Pipp: Just what I said. I would set up a Facebook page around their brand. I would be getting on there doing regular content, if not daily, 3-4 times a week. Doesn't have to just be them themselves. It could be an interview like we are doing here. This is a podcast that is live-streamed to Facebook, but it could just be someone doing a 1:1 interview on Facebook with someone within their niche that they felt like their audience would be interested in what that person has to say. I would just start there. The other means of taking that content and putting it other places is it may initially be challenging for some folks. With a little bit of instruction, it's not that tough to figure out. I know a couple people who would disagree with me, but overall, if you're dedicated to building your brand and you know where you're going, you'll figure it out. Hugh: It's ok for people to disagree with you because you're not responsible for their low functioning. Just to play in to what you're saying, to show it's practical, we are streaming live on Facebook. We are recording on my computer, which I will edit and put the music and brand on it. I will relaunch the video on YouTube. We put it on LinkedIn and Facebook. In the next couple of days, it will have several hundred views. In a few days, it will launch on the audio podcast. We will take what you say, every word you say, and transcribe it. That goes into the podcast and the web page. By the way, the livestream of the Facebook is streaming on your page on the website. We have publicized that on our 250,000 contacts on social media. They can just watch you on our website. We are repurposing live right now. Before I go to sleep tonight, it will be on YouTube and all over. People will be ringing your phone wondering who is this guy? We provide value to people every week when we do these things. What I do find, Pipp, is when I show up in a group of leaders, people know who I am because I'm out there on the live stream. I'm out there on social media. People don't always agree with what I say, but I subscribe to, “Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.” We stir things up a little bit. This is so helpful. If people don't know how to do all these things, we will put into the window your website address and your email address. Pipp@SI-5.com Pipp: Search Intelligence. That's my company. Hugh: I know Russ is anxious to dig deeper on some questions. I'm going to throw it back to Russell. Russell: This is all fascinating. People look at social media. There are so many platforms and choices out there. What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says, “We don't need all of that. We only need one. We'll just do Facebook.” What would you say to a nonprofit leader who says that? Pipp: I would say that's a good start, but it depends on- My attitude is this. I'll hold up the phone to him/her as well and say, “This is what holds most people's attention today.” Everybody whose attention is here is not on Facebook. Some of them are watching YouTube videos. Some are on their Twitter feed. Some are on LinkedIn. Some listen to podcasts when they are driving around doing things. A few people go to websites and read stuff still. I would say, “Yes, you want to be on Facebook.” It's important. and you want video on Facebook because video holds people's attention. But you are handcuffing yourself if you are just sticking with one platform. If you will put the work to doing that one platform, it isn't a whole lot more work to get that content on other platforms. Ideally, someone on their own could get this done in an hour a day once you get used to doing it and get a system going. Before that, it will take longer. It will be burdensome until you fine-tune it for yourself. Russell: Multiple platforms. For nonprofits, and I know you work with different businesses, are there some that are better than others, if they have limited bandwidth as far as the amount of time or people they have to sit and work this system and set it up? Is there an order of priority that works better for nonprofits? Pipp: Facebook and Instagram are huge, of course. I think for a lot of people, LinkedIn hasn't really been utilized to the extent that it could be. But if you are going to do the Facebook content, it's just not a lot of extra work to take some of that content, clips or still shots, and get them on Instagram. You can take that same video and post it on LinkedIn. On LInkedIn, you will put that on your personal profile, not the business profile. People don't look at the business side. Russell: Some platforms are more visual like a Pinterest or Instagram. Those are visual. How important is it to play to all of the senses that people have in making your message stick and reach more people? Pipp: You want to mix it up. Part of the advice I give people is if you have your avatar, what is the age bracket? If you are dealing with 40 and under, you need to focus your attention more on Instagram. If it's 35 and up, then maybe Facebook. There is a saying out there now that the millennials aren't on Facebook. I don't believe that's true. I think they're there as well, even though Instagram may have their primary focus. Pinterest, I don't do much with it. I think for certain niches, specifically e-commerce, it can be good. I think it's good for jewelers and the wedding industry. It's visually oriented, even more than Instagram is visually oriented. You have to play with different ones and see which posts you do get the most engagement. The other thing you can do on Instagram in particular is search hashtags. If you know what your hashtags are, search those. Find out what the top performing posts are on that platform. Use those to help yourself model the posts you do. I have a young man I know who is proficient on Instagram. He is 21 years old. Normally, he is on there in T-shirts and jeans and flip-flops. He was looking at a competitor and saw he had done one dressed up in a suit and tie. The post got huge engagement. He went out and got a suit and tie and did a post. It did better than anything else he'd been doing. You can learn from what other people do. You can't copy, but you can model that success to gain more success for yourself. Does that help answer that a little bit? Russell: It does. The hashtag gives people things to search through. The thing I'm seeing more and more of is video. Talk about the importance of video. I know for nonprofits, it's about telling a story in an engaging way. Why is it really important for them to use video? Are there some things that would be more effective where video is concerned? Pipp: Video is important because it will hold people's attention longer. The one most important thing is the sound needs to be really good. People, even if the visual part is good, if the sound is poor, people won't stick around and listen. Another trick with Facebook: Most people who watch videos on Facebook on their mobile device do so with the sound off. 70%. It's a good idea to make the effort to close caption the video so you can get your message across even when they don't have the sound on. That's an extra step, more work, but certainly can be well worth it. Videos need to be real. If they are too slickly produced, you will lose people. I know a story that I'm fond of telling is I have a friend who has an online business. She lives in the Northeast. She is a mom with four kids. She is busy. She had been trying to get this video post out for a week. It was always something going on. The dog was sick, or one of the kids was sick. Finally she had to get it done. She didn't have time to do her hair or put on her makeup. She had her sick son sitting on her lap. She turned on her webcam and microphone. That post got more engagement than anything she'd ever done because it was real. People could relate to that. In any arena, you need to have content that people can relate to. A video is too slick, and everybody thinks they can't do it or it's too well produced. You can have some of that, but it's nice to have the stuff that is real and you pull out your iPhone or mobile phone and shoot some video. That can be really engaging and very effective. Russell: It looks like that red carpet footage from Hugh from Sunday night will have to stay in the vault. All of this material that we put together and all of the ways we bring this information together is to tell a story that is relatable to people. Back to the whole topic of a sales funnel. We want people to become more and more engaged so you attract more at the top and bring them in. Talk about some of the things that nonprofits would use a funnel for. Some of it is to engage donors. What are other uses for a sales funnel? What messaging would go into that? Pipp: The messaging could be what they are trying to promote at the time, whether it's raising funds or attracting volunteers or promoting an event. The best way to do a sales funnel is put one together that is a single one focused on that one topic. It's all about the strategy. What are you trying to accomplish? The other thing that is important on these funnels is the social proof. Social proof is everything in today's social media world. When you're pulling out your video and are having an event, you want to get some comments from other people that are not necessarily a part of the organization, but they are fans of the organization or the people who come to the church or support the charity or volunteer for the charity or are recipients of the charity's good works. All of that, as much as you can, needs to be captured. Pictures, video. That needs to be a part of that sales funnel so when you direct traffic there, the people can see this evidence that says, “I'm here for a particular reason.” You see an overwhelming amount of social proof saying, “These guys do some good work. Here's the evidence.” It makes it easy for people to say yes and take the next step. Russell: That's powerful. Have your friends recommend you. That is the best thing you can get out there. People who are talking about why they support that nonprofit. More people that your audience can relate to. Pipp: Absolutely. That is so important. As I mentioned, I am doing some work for CFL for a marriage ministry. Our whole focus of attention right now is gathering social proof for people who have been through this marriage ministry and the positive results they received. We are gathering that before making our next big marketing push. It's weird to say marketing in the nonprofit context, but it is marketing. Russell: If nobody knows what good work you're doing, they can't support you. Pipp: That's right. Hugh: We have an aversion to some principles. We have an aversion in nonprofits and churches (which are nonprofits) that we don't want to sell. What is evangelism? We don't want to market. What is evangelism? People don't give. Have we told them what's going on? Have we told them about the impact of our work? Interviewing people, and getting third party testimonials, is excellent. However, we have to give them a format to talk in. They will talk about fluff unless we say talk about what you needed, talk about the impact, and talk about the results you saw. Say a little bit about how when we do get people to talk about us and we post this- We started out talking about our websites, but we have talked about a web presence. Your website is your credibility piece. This is what we do; this is what we're about. Your website is not just on the one platform. A church is not only behind the four walls. There are other pieces of marketing. Russell is spot-on. How do you connect with people? Pipp: I think one of the best ways to make sure that you're not getting fluff is you have to ask questions, specific questions. If you're gathering a video interview or if you are walking around an event with your mobile phone, ask people questions. Get their answers. Then you're not just going to get, “This is great. I'm happy to be here.” “What have you seen today that made the biggest impact on you?” Or, “Have you thought about a friend who you really want to know about this?” Or, if you are talking to someone who has been the recipient of the good works of that organization, ask them, “How has this impacted your life? How has this helped you at home? How has this helped you with your children?” You get some specifics in there, and not just fluff, as you said. Hugh: It's not that we're programming them. We're helping them focus on what's important. I'm going to let Russ have another go at you. Russ, what else do you have on your heart that you want to ask him to talk about? Russell: One thing we talk about at the Colorado Speakers Academy is messaging, trying to find out what you want people to know, feel, and do as a result of the message. What would be the advice that you would give to nonprofit leaders specifically to hone in on accomplishing those three things? Are there certain best practices that serve a nonprofit more so than it would serve a commercial entity? Pipp: I think they are largely the same. Anybody who is leading a nonprofit is already in most cases someone who is comfortable speaking. They are having to get up in front of people and speak. It's getting comfortable turning that webcam on and talking to a Facebook audience when you are not seeing a person right in front of you. Interviews can be helpful because then at least you have another person to speak to. Focusing on the message that you want. The other thing that is effective is telling stories. It's important to get your message told in a story format because people love listening to stories. But they don't like being lectured to. If you can get your message across in a compelling story, you will be more effective. Russell: That was one takeaway from my mastermind. We have a group here that meets. Somebody will share a challenge. We had one of our members looking at updating some of our material on social media. She had written something very carefully, and it was slick and polished. When the question was posed, why is she doing this, her authentic self came out. She talked for about 45 seconds. One of the members said, “Why didn't you write that down?” It was smooth. She was just seamless. She was into it. It came out very well. Do you find that people feel like they have to polish stuff up because maybe they are uncomfortable being on camera? Even if they are the only person in that room, it's like speaker anxiety where they are afraid to talk into a camera. How do you address that? Pipp: What I tell people is the same thing I tell myself because I am not comfortable doing it either. We have to do it. Whether it takes you 10 times or 20 times or 30 times, once you do it enough, you will find your voice, and you will get a good understanding of how you need to present that information and the kinds of stores you're good at telling. With the Speakers Bureau, if they have never done speaking but always wanted to, they will be bad when they start. Practice gets you better. I used to play competitive golf. If you have ever played any golf, you know that the first time you pick up a club, the first thing you do is totally wrong. You learn those fundamentals, and then you practice. The nice thing about social media is that people are intimidated by and large. If they see somebody looking not so polished or stumbling over their words a bit, they're okay with that. That's real. Real can be compelling. You can draw an audience by being an authentic person. I could do that. Russell: I don't think they will mistake Hugh and me for Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. But I think we hold our own here. Get a message out to folks that resonates with them. That's what we hope to do. Finding other people that are doing some of this type of stuff might be helpful. Do you recommend helping people get a support system? Talk to somebody who has done this before. How about some of the volunteers in the organization? Do you find that when you work with nonprofits, some of them have volunteers on board who are savvy with this stuff who can interface with someone like you to bring the image to life for a nonprofit? Pipp: In this arena, I can't say I have worked with enough of them to have that experience. I am working real solidly more with one right now. They do have some volunteers who are helpful in this arena. It still largely falls to the head of the organization. Most nonprofits don't have big staffs. There is not a lot of people. Even if there are volunteers, they don't have enough time. It's learning how to put it together into a system that you can create for yourself. Once you get it down, you can do a Facebook Live video and parse it out to the different platforms inside an hour, if you have done it before and know what you're doing. It just takes some time to learn those steps, like everything. Hugh: Speaking of an hour, we can multiply ourselves if we can learn how to lead a whole team. Pipp has opened up a topic that is really important. We think we will just get some kid to put up a nice looking website. We haven't developed an integrative program. Pipp, part of what we don't do is define who we are and identify our brand value, our brand image, our brand promise. We need to identify who we are. What we have at SynerVision is a whole integrative process. You are doing things differently with web presence and social media presence and letting people integrate with us and engage people. It's critical in the nonprofit space. *Sponsor message from SynerVision Leadership's forum* What tip or thought or challenge do you want to leave people with, Pipp? Pipp: I would challenge everyone to get out there on social media and do a Facebook Live. Start there. Get comfortable with that. Then you can figure out a way to parse that material out. Take the video and put it on YouTube and Instagram and LinkedIn, etc. Hugh, if it's okay, can I make an offer to your audience? Hugh: Yes. Pipp: I will offer to create a sales funnel for three nonprofits for no charge. The first three that contact me as a result of this interview. Contact me via email at Pipp@SI-5.com. I will put together a funnel for them for no charge. Hugh: I don't think Russ and I can take the first two. That wouldn't be fair. That's generous. Thank you so much for being here. Russ will close us out today. Russell: Thank you very much, Pipp. It's been very enlightening. 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  Hugh Ballou, Transformational Leadership Strategist Orchestrating Success How does a conductor of orchestras and choirs teach leadership – very enthusiastically! Hugh Ballou teaches leaders around the globe how to build synergy with teams and how to build effective processes that bring success to any organization – no matter how small or how big. “I travel around the country and around the world and find that you can change the name of the organization, the location and the type of structure and you will still have the same issues – leaders not leading effectively! Ballou brings 40 years of experience as conductor to his leadership training. “I call the training Building High Performance Teams, but no one can produce effective teams without fine-tuned leadership skills. I teach business executives how an orchestra conductor brings out the best skill of the players that have been hired. The conductor is a dictator, however, if the conductor hires a good oboe player, then it's best to let that oboe player use his or her skill rather than tell them how to play the oboe!” It sounds silly, however, leaders who micro-manage those whom they lead only receive a fraction of the performance that is ultimately possible. Let the team perform! The skill set of planning for success, constructing powerful goals, and delegating with authority are consistent themes where many leaders underperform. Ballou's unique ability to inspire and motivate even the most difficult of audiences has made him the expert in the field of Transformational Leadership. Transformational Leaders build strong leaders on teams that are motivated, focused and highly effective in setting and implementing powerful goals. As author of numerous books on Transformational Leadership, Ballou works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields