Friendship IRL

In the past few episodes, I've talked about keeping in touch with friends through the digital space. This episode goes a step further: how do you MAKE friends online?Today's guests are Claudia and Marcela, the mother-daughter duo behind the Minded Society, which offers a supportive virtual environment for women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s, with monthly events, book clubs, and personalized connections, helping members find authentic friendships across distances. We dive into everything, from maintaining friendships across time zones to being intentional about using the digital world to form deep connections. If this sounds like something you'd enjoy, Minded Society is offering our listeners 50 percent off your first month, plus a free 14-day trial; use the code Friendship IRL on their website.Technology isn't a barrier to deep friendship; if you use it right, it can be a bridge that leads you to the kind of people who make you feel less alone in the world.In this episode you'll hear about:The inception of Minded Society during the COVID-19 pandemic, driven by shared feelings of lonelinessWhat Minded Society is: a community that helps women form authentic friendships despite living in different parts of the worldThe importance of effort in maintaining online friendships, regardless of proximity or technology, and how to channel that effort (voice notes, phone calls, FaceTime, etc.)Generational differences in communication preferences and balancing effort and respect for others' boundariesResources & LinksListen to Episode 127 about calling your friends and Episode 24 about using the Marco Polo app. In this episode I also mention my Roots framework.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Are online friends REAL friends? I'm not talking about parasocial relationships, which are one-sided relationships; I'm talking about people you've had conversations with, people who know things about you. My personal opinion is that they most certainly are.In this episode, I talk in-depth about the difference between my friends I met in person and the friends I met online. I combat some of the pushback people have against people you meet online and highlight some of the benefits of online friendship, from global perspectives to professional support.At the end of the day, true connection isn't about where it started or how it's maintained. It's about how we are showing up for each other and supporting each other, whether that's across the dinner table or across the world.In this episode you'll hear about:How many of my current friendships started online, including podcast guests like Alex Friedman and Wesley StroupeWhere online friendships can form (business groups, social media, virtual reality forums, etc.) and how to maintain them (Zoom, Facetime, Marco Polo, social media)Finding niche friends online – for example, many of my professional friendships were formed in the digital space – and gaining global perspectives from themCommon concerns about online friendships: Will they fizzle out? Are they surface-level? Who actually IS this person from the internet?Resources & LinksListen to Episode 25 with Patrice Poltzer, Episode 48 with Michelle Reichman, Episode 72 with Wesley Stroop, Episode 44 with Deasha Waddup, and Episodes 5 and 7 with Alex Friedman.Also be sure to listen to Episode 128 about parasocial relationships!Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

The term ‘parasocial relationship' was coined in the 1950s by American sociologists Donald Horton and Richard Wohl to describe how people connected with TV personalities at the time. Today, parasocial relationships have expanded to include celebrities, influencers, athletes – even podcast hosts! Social media in particular has taken parasocial relationships to a new level; it blows my mind how much I know about some people I've never met. In this episode, I talk all about the parasocial phenomenon: the positive and negative attributes to parasocial relationships, why we reach for them, and how they're impacting our real (two-sided) connections.Parasocial relationships aren't inherently good or bad. They're just part of modern reality. They're not going anywhere. So instead of judging them, maybe it's time we get intentional about them. How can we use parasocial connections as a bridge to community rather than replacement for it?In this episode you'll hear about:Stats to consider: 51 percent of Americans have parasocial relationships but only 16 percent actually acknowledge they're in oneHow social media changed parasocial relationships, giving us more behind-the-scene access and real-time updates about the people we followThe emotional energy we invest in parasocial relationships and how they can impact real-life friendships, causing relationship distortionHow parasocial relationships can fill emotional needs, reduce stigma, provide behavioral modeling, and form communities in marginalized groupsResources & LinksListen to Episode 104 with Sharon Walters about how to get less passive and more active on podcasts and social media; Episode 91, about how to stop dreading parties and take charge of your guest experience; Episode 38 and Episode 39, about third places; and Episode 127, which is about calling your friends.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

When was the last time you just called a friend because you wanted to talk?We carry these super computers in our pockets, but sometimes, using them to stay in touch feels more complicated than ever. There are some people we can ring spontaneously. Others require multiple rounds of scheduling.This episode is about the gap between wanting to stay connected and actually doing it. Today's guest Mark Houghton, doesn't just relate to this problem; he decided to solve it by creating the SoonCall app, which tracks connections and reminds you when it's time to reach out. Here, Mark and I dive into the complexities of staying in touch. What I love most about our conversation? Mark has normalized something we've all been feeling guilty about: the mental load of maintaining modern friendships, and how some of us need a little extra help.Intrigued by SoonCall? Mark has created a special offer for Friendship IRL listeners with six months of free access to SoonCall pro. In this episode you'll hear about:How the SoonCall app was created out of Mark's own personal need to manage long-distance friendshipsFeatures of SoonCall, from tracking calls to reminding us of birthdays and important datesHaving open conversations with our friends about how they feel about different kinds of connection, including spontaneous callsUsing SoonCall and other tools as ways to support (not replace!) personal interactionsThe exclusive SoonCall offer for Friendship IRL listeners: six months of free access to SoonCall ProResources & LinksMore on friendship goals: listen to Episode 23, where I talked about my personal friendship goals, or Episode 60, where I dive into why friendship goals matter and how to make them.Be sure to read Good Friends: Bonds That Change Us and the World by Priya Vulchi and her first book, Tell Me Who You Are: Sharing Our Stories of Race, Culture, and Identity, which she wrote with Winona Guo.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Sometimes friendship can be a powerful force for social and political change.This is according to today's guest, Priya Vulchi, author of the newly-released (and AMAZING!) Good Friends: Bonds That Change Us and the World, which offers a resounding cry that friendship is vital, not just for individual well-being, but for humanity itself.Priya is the co-founder of the nonprofit, Choose; was the youngest TED resident ever; has been published in places like The New York Times and Time Magazine; and is pursuing her Ph.D. in African and African American Studies at Harvard as a presidential scholar.In other words, she knows what she's talking about. But here's why I'm excited about this conversation: we talk about how real authentic friendship is actually RADICAL and can change the world, challenging the status quo and causing people to care about issues simply because they impact the people they love.In this episode you'll hear about:Aristotle's three types of friendship – utility, pleasure, and virtue – and how these definitions still apply todayHow friendship challenges capitalistic models of overconsumption and self-reliance by relying on friends for favors instead of Uber or Amazon How friendship can be political, requiring people to challenge their self-interests and deepen relationshipsThe concept of heteros, or political friendship, and how it is as important as philia, or friendship of virtue; plus, the importance of joy in friendshipsResources & LinksBe sure to read Good Friends: Bonds That Change Us and the World by Priya Vulchi and her first book, Tell Me Who You Are: Sharing Our Stories of Race, Culture, and Identity, which she wrote with Winona Guo.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Have you ever stopped to think about what connection actually IS? How do you define the multi-faceted thing that we talk about all the time on this podcast? That's what our guest, Dr. Adam Dorsay, is tasked with in this episode. Dr. Dorsay is a licensed psychologist, executive coach to high-achieving adults in Silicon Valley, host of the award-winning podcast, Super Psyched, and presenter of two amazing TEDx Talks. Today he discusses his new book, Super Psyched: Unleash The Power of the Four Types of Connection and Live the Life You Love (which I highly recommend).This interview was so inspiring to me; I think the two of us could have talked for days. One of my biggest personal takeaways is to pay attention to not just my connection with others, but also my connection to the world and to something greater.Listen in as we discuss the four types of connection and how to find the right combination for ourselves. Spoiler alert – it's not a one-size-fits-all.In this episode you'll hear about:What connection is – Dr. Dorsay defines it as an emotional internal response – and the four different typesAnecdotes and practical tips to enhance connection, such as using a "driveway test" to evaluate interactions and employing a "walk-on song" to boost confidenceThe importance of self-connection – including self-awareness and self-love – which is the foundation of all other connectionsSocietal pressure to appear cool and how it can hinder genuine connection (and why we should allow ourselves to experience awe and excitement instead)Alexithymia, the spotlight effect, plus, how we psyche ourselves up for small talkResources & LinksRead Super Psyched by Adam Dorsay, listen to his TEDx Talks, and listen to his podcast, Super Psyched.Check out Dr. Adam Dorsey's book "Super Psyched" and his TEDx talks for further insights on connection.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Who in your life are you most consistently connected to? Is it a partner? A roommate? A friend, sibling, or parent? Now tell me this: when was the last time you wanted to lean into an interest, and you automatically asked this particular person to join … even though it wasn't their thing? I call this the “easy ask,” and I think it's a universal experience. I came up with the term years ago when I asked my partner Michael to go shopping with me, even though he doesn't enjoy shopping. (Spoiler alert: he didn't want to go.) There are times when the easy ask is okay, and there are times when you should work a little harder to find a more suitable person to join – or just go about it alone. I hope this episode gets you thinking: Where in your life are you making the easy ask? And what is the impact of this in your experiences and your relationships?In this episode you'll hear about:How the "easy ask" often stems from convenience and familiarity, rather than a genuine desire for the experienceTimes when the easy ask makes sense, like when you need help with certain tasks or when that person has expressed interestHidden costs of the easy ask, from strained relationships to missing out on opportunities to connect with friends who'd actually enjoy this activityWhy it benefits to choose the less convenient but more meaningful connection over the easy optionResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

A few months ago, I made a professional connection, and the energy felt good. As we neared the end of our working relationship, I realized I didn't want this connection to end – but there was no logical way for us to get together. We weren't in the same industry. I didn't know if we had overlapping hobbies.The whole situation got me thinking about this weird gray zone we sometimes find ourselves in when we can't rely on proximity to make friends. It can be awkward … almost like dating! But unlike dating, friendship expectations can be unclear. Will this be a close friend? Or an acquaintance? What do you actually want to come out of this connection?There will probably always be uncomfortable moments in new friendships. But I believe that if we talk about it, then hopefully we can accept that this is a normal part of the process and keep pushing forward.In this episode you'll hear about:The gray zone of making new friends and the importance of proximity and consistencyVulnerabilities in starting new friendships, including admitting we want to hang out with this person againThe tendency to overthink messages and interactions, and how sometimes making new friends is like starting a new exercise routinePushing through the discomfort of “friend dating” and navigating things like health restrictions in social settingsResources & Links:Check out the roots framework as featured in Episode 12.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Do you ever think about how one small act of kindness can literally change the direction of someone's life? What if YOU could cause that turning point?Today I'm sitting with Bryan Driscoll, author of The Goodness Game, who took an act of kindness he received 20 years ago in Orlando and, with the help of a Craigslist ad, paid it forward in a way that made national headlines and enormous ripple effects.What I love most about this conversation? He shows it's not about trying to change the world overnight. It's about the small choices we make every day, and the consequent ripples that touch not just the people we help, but also their friends, and their friends of friends.If you've ever wondered if those small acts of kindness really matter, or if you're feeling a little bit overwhelmed by all the negativity in the world, this episode is for you. In this episode you'll hear about:Bryan's journey on a Greyhound bus to Florida and the kindness of several strangers who helped him find a place to stay (and one woman who let him stay in her house!)Social trust: what it is (essentially, our faith in strangers), its historical significance, and its decline in modern societyThe importance of curiosity and discomfort in driving positive change and the potential for small acts to create significant ripplesHow to use concepts from The Goodness Game, including “giving without remembering,” honing in on your helper style, and making acts of kindness enjoyableResources & Links:Buy The Goodness Game by Bryan Driscoll and visit goodnessgame.com. And here's some more information about the study on social trust that was mentioned in this episode.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

There are endless ways to make friends as an adult, and today we're diving into one I have never covered before: speed friending.To some of you, this will sound terrifying at first, but stick with me, because it's actually pretty brilliant! Today's guest is Georgia Huntley, founder of Friends of Friends, who  is doing something really special in the friendship space.Georgia hosts speed friending events that are designed to make meeting new people feel fun and effortless. In today's episode, we'll cover what actually happens at these events and what to do if you're sitting there thinking this sounds terrifying. Her advice if you ever attend an event like this? Take some pressure off and practice the art of being both interested and interesting. Have a little fun, learn something new, and approach your experience with curiosity. (Which is also great advice for making friends in general!)In this episode you'll hear about:The origin of Friends of Friends, which started as an online community and evolved into in-person events (its third iteration had 85 people!)The bar that asked Georgia to host a speed-friending event because staff noticed people weren't socializing inside like they used toThird places, how they're disappearing, and what impact this has on making friendships as an adultThe setup of a typical speed friending event, why they have been so effective, and how you might mimic something similar where you areAdvice on how to attend an event like this, from being curious to taking pressure offResources & LinksFollow Georgia on Instagram!. Listen to Episodes 38 and 39, which go deep into third places.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

During the pandemic, like many others, I felt politically charged, and I channeled this energy into being an online warrior.On social media, I reposted it all, making it clear where I stood – only to realize this wasn't my highest use. I wasn't actually reading the books or taking the actions. I wondered: what could I do instead? That's how I ended up here. Real community requires something most Americans are terrified of, which is compromise. It requires letting go of the “all-or-nothing” mindset and finding common ground. It means being willing to give up some of our freedoms for real security and support. Today I share some of my political beliefs and what I've been doing instead of being an “online warrior.” I'm not saying this is how you should show up. It's just how I do. At the core of it all, my fundamental belief is this: as humans, we need to care more about each other. In this episode you'll hear about:My own political beliefs regarding religion, gun reform, human rights, climate change, marriage equality, church-state separation, human services programs, etc.Pitfalls of simply reposting political content without taking action and the importance of having meaningful conversationsThe danger of polarization and the “all-or-nothing” mindset and the importance of finding common ground to foster understanding and connectionThe power of small shifts, plus three things I'm doing in my everyday life instead of being the online warriorResources & LinksRead the book I quote in this episode, Democracy in Retrograde by Sami Sage and Emily Amick.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Are you enjoying your friendships? Are you able to be present with your people and soak up your time together?So often, people focus on what's missing in their friendships. They have this idea of what “peak” friendship might look like, which gets in the way of being grateful for what is there. I'm here to remind you that there is a stark contrast between HAVING connections and ENJOYING them. And this isn't just regarding our closest friends: how grateful are you for the acquaintance at the coffee shop? For your child's teacher, your hair stylist, or the people you work with?Today I talk about what might be getting in the way of your enjoyment, and I offer tips on how to be more present and happy while with friends.In this episode you'll hear about:Mental chatter and the fear of being “too much” or “not worthy,” and how this limits enjoyment in our friendshipsFriendship baggage, anxiety about the future, and working on receiving connection, even just small gestures from community membersThe present distractions that get in the way of enjoying friendships (mostly, it's the phones)The idea of “storing up connection for later” and multitasking during friend time – and why this doesn't always workResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

One of you asked me an amazing question the other day: If you could tell your younger self one thing about friendship, what would you tell her?I spend so much time thinking about community and connection – probably much more than the average person – and I have learned a lot since my youth. Some realizations I'm having at 35 are realizations a lot of people might not have until they're middle aged.No matter your age, there are likely things you wish you could go back and tell younger you. We are always growing and changing as friends. We are always learning.In today's episode, I'll cover what I've learned about choosing friends, being a friend, and friendship transitions – plus some final advice I would give younger me.Now that I've shared my thoughts, tell me: what would you tell your younger self? Send me a message on Instagram!In this episode you'll hear about:What I did a good job with in my younger friendships, including building community, choosing friends well, and not letting status quo drive friendshipsThe constant need I had to be worthy of friendships and how this affected my behavior and relationshipsThe inevitable heartbreak in friendships (especially one-sided friendships) and the importance of feeling that heartbreak and moving past itThe value of working on communication skills to improve friendships and learning from every interactionHow what a “good friend” is changes through every life transition, from middle school to college and beyondResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Do you ever drive past a former friend's house and find yourself flooded with memories?Suddenly, you start thinking: what would it be like if you still talked? Maybe it's just a fleeting thought, but maybe this thought really stings. As much as we like to think of certain friendships being “done,” it's never really the case.Today's episode is about the friendship that got away. What causes us to become less close? Why do some friendships stay with us? How do you know if you should keep trying? When should you let it go?There are so many lessons you learn from a friendship, so even if it ended, it's not a failure. It helped you grow into the person you are, and it is going to be worthwhile in the community you are creating and investing in.In this episode you'll hear about:The friendship fade, and why this happens (see my Roots framework): life changes, and responsibilities lead to a driftWhen paths diverge, it requires work to build new friendship roots; for example, when my friends started having kids, we needed to find new ways to spend time togetherHow hard it can be to separate the past from the present and the nostalgia associated with past friendhipsWhat you should ask yourself if you're looking to reconnect with an old friend, and the importance of letting yourself grieve if you decide to let it goResources & LinksSee my Roots framework, and listen to last week's Episode 114, about the friendship guilt spiral, Episode 115, about pet peeves, and Episode 25 about friendship break-ups.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Everyone's allowed to have pet peeves. It's normal and bound to happen.In this episode, I talk about common pet peeves; my friends' pet peeves; and my own pet peeves. Do you ignore them? Deal with them? (Also, how DO you deal with them?)Some people say to write off friends whose tendencies are driving you crazy. My thought: it's a lot of work to make new friends! What if we instead navigated that conflict and created a feedback culture in our friendships?These confrontations don't have to be big blow-outs. In fact, I hope they're not; I hope you get to them before they reach that point. Like with most things, there is no overarching solution. It's acceptable to be annoyed with your friends, and it's also acceptable to give feedback and work through it, because that's how friendships grow.In this episode you'll hear about:The idea for this episode (and where ideas for this show come from); I promise, I am not actively angry with any of my friends right now!Common pet peeves, from phone-interrupted conversations and last-minute cancels to the friend who always tries to fix itHow I've addressed my own pet peeves and discovered my friends' pet peeves by paying attention to subtle feedbackAddressing pet peeves BEFORE they become major issues and how to give feedback in a thoughtful and non-accusatory mannerGetting to the root cause of the frustration and giving friends time to reflect on the feedback – and know that initial reactions might be defensiveResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Recently, I left a text message from a friend unanswered for ten days.It's not something I'm proud of. All I needed to do was respond to this friend, but the more time that passed, the more it felt like a bigger response was needed.For ten days, I woke up, knowing I needed to respond to this text message, feeling worse and worse. Then, yesterday, I told myself, if there is one thing I do today, it is respond to this text message, because I can't carry this guilt on my shoulders anymore.Today's episode is about the phenomenon of the friendship guilt spiral. It happens when we don't act in the way we think we should act, and it turns into an enormous weight we carry. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I do have some tips for dealing with it.Most important is to remember that we are all human, and friendship guilt spirals happen! Give yourself some grace. Your friend will probably understand.In this episode you'll hear about:The friendship guilt spiral: when we don't act the way we think we should to a friend which results in escalating feelings of guilt Special occasion fails – for example, when I tried to make up for missing my friend's wedding by planning a celebration, which never materializedPressure to be the "perfect friend" and the guilt that comes with not meeting those expectationsHow acknowledging and addressing the guilt (and also starting small!) can keep it from escalating out of controlResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Have you ever had to FIGHT somebody in order to help them?I'll bet we all have that friend who meets you with resistance when you offer to show up for them. “It's too much,” they tell you – even if it's no trouble at all.Today, we continue our conversation about giving and receiving support with Laura Malcolm, the founder and CEO of Give InKind, a one-stop social support platform where you can organize all you might need to help somebody: meals, rides, GoFundMe updates, you name it.Laura shares her beautiful story about how she created Give InKind and how she sees people utilizing the service today. Some use it to organize care for a family going through pediatric cancer; others use it to plan whose turn it is to call Grandma.One of the most important things we cover is that we are ALL worthy of support, no matter our socioeconomic status, no matter how “not bad” we have it. Because honestly, it's not always about the help itself – it's also about the gesture, making us feel connected and cared for.In this episode you'll hear about:Give InKind, a one-stop-shop for helping friends and family in hard situations, with places to organize meal trains, grocery store trips, pet sitting, wish lists, etc.The idea for the service, which came about when Laura and her husband lost their first child to stillbirth and her coworkers set up a meal train for themRing Theory, the vulnerability it takes to give/receive support, plus, what people were asking for on Give InKind that threw Laura off guardWhy part of support is about connection and the act itself – no socioeconomic status is more or less deserving, and you don't need to be in an emergency to receive careResources & LinksWant more on giving and receiving support? See Episode 112 and Episode 113. Be sure to check out Give InKind and the Ring Theory I mentioned in this episode.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

I used to love being the “strong friend.” For awhile, it was a large part of my identity, and I'd brag about dropping anything to help a friend in need.In retrospect, it's easy to see how being the “strong friend” came naturally to me. I had a complex, traumatic childhood, and as the eldest daughter, I became a caregiver at a very young age and dealt with a lot of unpredictable circumstances. At school, I put myself in leadership positions where at the end of the day, the buck stopped with me, from becoming class president to varsity coxswain on the rowing team. But over time, it became clear this title – the “strong friend” – came at a cost.That's what today's episode is about: the costs of being the “strong friend,” and how I eventually was able to remove myself from this role (which had its own costs). If you've ever played this role, I hope this episode gives you permission to make small shifts to lighten your load. I promise, those changes do add up over time. In this episode you'll hear about:How being the “strong friend” actually denied other people in my life the chance to show up for me and for each otherThe unsustainable patterns this dynamic created, going from one grand gesture to the next, and how this impacted school, work, and my partnership with MichaelChoosing gestures that are actually not disruptive – for us, it's company – vs. disruptive, like taking time off work to stay with somebodyHow I shifted some of these patterns, including learning to build bridges instead of boundariesResources & LinksListen to Episode 85 about shifting people-pleasing patterns and to Episode 112 about breaking the ways we show up into phases.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

At the time this episode airs, there are devastating wildfires in Los Angeles – and yet, I've seen some beautiful levels of response. When something bad happens, whether to one person or an entire community, people want to help. Consequently, I've been thinking a lot about how people show up for one another. In a world where so many feel disconnected, helping someone else is a way to feel less alone. Today's episode is about how to be there for people during a loss. These ideas are applicable to anybody experiencing a tragedy, from losing their home to losing a loved one.There is no perfect way to show up. Stop putting that pressure on yourself and be okay with the fact you're probably going to make mistakes. If you're in the middle of supporting someone now, know that you're doing matters. Keep being brave enough to show up.In this episode you'll hear about:Being okay with discomfort and the fact that you can't fix what's happening to somebody – but you can provide support for themLooking at immediate needs first: do they have physical shelter, food, water, or clothing? Do they need a place to sleep for the night?My own personal experience receiving help after losing my mom at age 13 – plus, the realities of freeze stateThe value of specific offers, doing what you're naturally good at, and coordinating with others via existing networksDos and don'ts when it comes to supporting people going through hard times (for example, DON'T try to force silver linings; DO validate their feelings)Resources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Think of a space you feel completely comfortable in that's not your own home.For me, it's my grandparents' house. I can easily picture their front porch, where my grandmother waited for us; the table we played cards at; and the garden, where I spent hours talking to them while picking green beans.We've been trained by the internet to believe superficial details – like a perfectly styled coffee table or matching throw pillows – are what people remember about our homes. Consequently, many have anxiety hosting because their homes don't look Instagram-readyBut the houses we see online are designed to be in magazines. They're not real. Most people's homes are messy and imperfect, which in a way makes them friendlier places to be. It's not the aesthetic that makes them comfortable; it's the memories made there with people. So consider this your permission to host imperfectly, and to focus not curating space, but instead, on being present and holding space.In this episode you'll hear about:The bizarre age we live in, where we are inundated with perfect images of home from the internet, which is skewing our perception of what guests are looking forThe comfort of imperfection – sometimes it's nice to know it's not just  you whose living room is cluttered or whose freezer contains mangoes instead of ice!Rewiring our brains to focus on holding space vs. curating space (and why sometimes holding space is actually harder)What people are actually craving in a gathering: real connection, and to feel safe, comfortable, seen, and lovedResources & LinksListen to Episode 6 about hosting and see some of my other free resources. Listen to Episode 38 and Episode 39 about third places and Episode 27 and Episode 69 about the loneliness epidemic.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Your village is out there, waiting for you. It might even be knocking on your door, and you haven't realized. People often think they need to make enormous shifts to find community; they need to move to a tiny village on the other side of the world or into a compound in the woods. But that's not true. Here's what you actually need: subtle shifts and a willingness to be uncomfortable. So many people talk about how they want a village, and yet, I see them rejecting the small changes they need to make to let their villages in. They won't accept help – a ride to the airport, a babysitter, a pre-cooked meal – because they don't want to put a person out or let go of control.I can offer to pick up your groceries or watch your children over and over again. I am choosing that; I want to be in community with you. But at the end of the day, you have to want that, too. We need to co-create this relationship and support system together. In this episode you'll hear about:Community, which is cited as the answer for societal issues like childcare/elder care shortages, mental health issues, etc. – but rarely is there advice on how to find itThe idea of “hiring” a village – a message families often hear – for grocery pick-ups, babysitting, Uber rides, etc.Rejecting help when you need it because you feel like you can't accept unpaid help or are unwilling to let go of controlThe level of internal required to step off the hamster wheel and be willing to feel discomfort in either asking for help or offering itResources & LinksListen to Episode 8 with my friend Adrienne about building a friendship community for her family.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

The year 2024 feels like an absolute whirlwind. Where did the time go?Today's episode was inspired by one of my podcast producers, Alison, who told me she loves episodes this time of year that take you behind the scenes, which feels good to me; I want to catch you up on what's been going on.As you may know, I've been struggling with health issues this year, so much of what you've been listening to was pre-recorded. But finally, in early November, I got diagnosed with a trio of chronic illnesses: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, and Dysautonomia.I had hoped to get more done in 2024, but getting closure on some long-standing issues has been a very good thing. And, even though I didn't have capacity to work on the podcast very much, it has grown, with listeners from 138 countries and almost 4,000 cities. There's much in store for 2025, but I need your help. Please take my two-minute survey. Do you like solo episodes? Interviews? Grouped topics? Let me know so I can provide the content you crave. I hope the end of your year is filled with ease. See you in 2025.In this episode you'll hear about:What this last year has looked like: being ill and finally getting diagnoses; moving; wonderful friendship momentsMy goals 2025: health stability, more investment in my community, and more connection to listeners via social media/internetThings to get out into the world in 2025: Freebies! Printed guides! Audio guides! And also, the book I keep talking about!Stats about the podcast (which has grown without any traditional marketing techniques!) and what I'd like to focus on in the coming year Resources & LinksPlease complete my survey so I can provide the kind of content you're looking for in 2025.Check out YearCompass, which helps you reflect on the past year and set goals for the next. Listen also to Episode 101 and Episode 108.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

I sobbed in the car about the holidays this week – but not for reasons you might think.Here's what made me emotional: I am so grateful and excited for the ways we are celebrating our holidays this year. It could not be further from the reasons I've car sobbed in years past.Some of you are already excited about the holidays, and I love that for you. But that is not everyone's experience, and for years, it was not mine. There was a period in my 20s when my partner Michael literally called me the Grinch. Holidays are often reserved for families – so where does that leave those of us who don't have strong familial ties or want something different?This episode is about how to create holiday traditions with your friends that feel GOOD, with practical advice on how  to initiate these conversations and get the ball moving, with the hope that you too will dream up and work toward your own ideal celebrations, too.In this episode you'll hear about:My personal relationship and evolution with the holiday season, from being the Grinch to crying in the car out of happiness for my holiday plansWhat I was looking for in my holidays, including togetherness, connection, and splitting the burden of the magic makingThe societal normals that often limit holiday options to family gatherings or solitude, and the third option I'm proposing: holidays with friendsInitiating conversations with friends about getting together for the holidays – which often involves a little vulnerability The importance of patience and openness in creating new holiday traditions with friendsResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Traditions are incessant. They HAVE to keep happening. That's what makes them traditions! So how do you create traditions that stick around month after month, year after year? In my opinion, it's all about sustainability. Traditions have to be something you can maintain on some level as life changes. Otherwise they fizzle out and aren't traditions anymore.In this episode, I offer tips on how to create traditions that are sustainable for all the people in your life, from your formal communities to your historic and present friends. Traditions matter. They offer safety and security in our relationships by creating consistency and frequency with which we see each other. They don't need to be elaborate or expensive or energy intensive; they just need to be meaningful and maintainable. So start small. Be consistent. And let things evolve naturally over time.In this episode you'll hear about:What traditions look like for formal communities, defined/historic/present friends, etc. Different options for touchpoints: in-person gatherings, text threads, virtual chats, neighborhood walks, porch parties, restaurant outings, etc.My own Thursday morning ritual with my business friends that has morphed into a Monday morning paddleboard meet-upQuestions to ask when trying to decide if a tradition is sustainable – plus, let's change the energy behind being the initiator! Questions to ask if you're starting new traditions, including: what connections do you want to deepen? What's already happening naturally that could be more intentional?Resources & LinksListen to Episode 100 about the Wheel of Connection and Episode 52 about pulling off simple neighborhood gatherings.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

If you've listened to this podcast before, then you know the concept of the chosen family is very important to me personally.Some people in my chosen family play a variety of roles. Some play just one. Some are back-ups; others are back-ups for my back-ups. Cumulatively, it all adds up: today I feel more supported than I ever have in my life.I've talked about chosen families in other episodes – including Episode 16, about my friend Jeff's, and Episode 19, about my own – but I've never done one like today's, which delves deep into what a chosen family is; why it's important; and how to build one yourself.Chosen families are the people who catch you when you fall but also help springboard you to the next level. Even if you already have a strong familial support system, this matters: you could still be part of a chosen family for someone else. Whether you're building a chosen family out of necessity, like I did, or by choice, they matter. They make our lives richer, our support systems stronger, and our worlds a little bit better.In this episode you'll hear about:What a chosen family is: people who choose you through their words, intentions, and actions (with you choosing them back)The fallacy of the “all-or-nothing” mindset of the chosen family and the different roles chosen family members can play: big, small, medical, etc.My breast-cancer scare and how I leaned on my chosen family while I had to wait for the mammogram and ultrasoundCelebrating holidays, birthdays, vacations, and milestones with chosen family members and how to create traditions with themWays we can support our chosen families – plus, the power of specific support offers (helping with a new baby; driving someone to doctor appointments, etc.)Resources & LinksListen to other episodes about chosen families, including Episode 19, “The One for Little Alex,” and Episode 16. Also be sure to listen to Episode 12, about my Roots of Connection framework.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

A few years ago, Debra Driscoll was living in Brooklyn, navigating a long-distance relationship and a life split between the city and the sea. Then, in 2020, her world was turned upside down.Instead of seeing this as a setback, Debra took it as an opportunity to fast-forward her dreams and create something beautiful. Now Debra is a spiritual teacher and energy guide who, from her home in Tobago, runs a thriving community, Big Life Magic, which is made up of people who are looking for a space to grow and transform, and for others to witness and celebrate their transformation. Today's episode is all about finding those spaces where we can truly show up as ourselves – not just who we are now, but who we dream of becoming, filled with people who believe that anything is possible for us.In this episode you'll hear about:Debra's split life in New York City until 2020 – followed by her move to Tobago, where she started Big Life Magic, which focuses on spiritual guidance and energy workThe concept of "believing mirrors,” where friends reflect and affirm each other's potential and dreamsNot asking people about past or current selves, but instead: what do you want? Who do you hope to become? And how can I support you to get there?The power of getting out of your bubble and seeing other places, other people, and other ways to be in the worldAdvice for people looking to find similar transformational spaces for themselves and questions to ask themselves, like: what do I want in my life now? What do I need?Resources & LinksLearn about Debra's company, Big Life Magic, and her book, A Series of Surrendor: a Memoir of Grief.See Friendship IRL Episode 91, “How to Stop Dreading Parties and Take Charge of Your Guest Experience.”Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Many times on this podcast, I've talked about how powerful virtual connection can be, with the caveat: are you ACTUALLY engaging, or are you just lurking? Today we dive into connection through podcasts and social media, emphasizing active over passive consumption. Our guest is Sharon Walters, a coach and author who has made it her mission to transform gratitude from a reaction to an action.In this episode, Sharon highlights the impact of positive feedback and genuine interactions. She uses social media to build meaningful relationships and supports content creators by sharing their work and closing the loop. It's easy to turn social media and podcasts into passive connections, but actually, they are brimming with opportunities for authentic relationships. There are real people behind the microphones and cameras, and it only helps to show them some love. So give them a like. Send them a message. You might even make a new friend.In this episode you'll hear about:What it means to close the loop in virtual connections so that you're actively participating instead of just lurkingThe possibility of virtual connection: Sharon's friendships she's made through social media or podcasts, and my ownMy challenge to you: if you're listening to a podcast, and it's not one of the chart-toppers, connect with them: send them a message, give them a likeThe importance of being genuine and authentic in online interactions (and also, the value of positive feedback for content creators)Resources & LinksSharon is a business owner, gratitude coach, fitness trainer, and author. Visit her website and follow her on Facebook and Instagram.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

I just got back from this wild, adventurous, 11-day road trip with my friend to see two Taylor Swift concerts on opposite sides of the country. How did we make it happen? Partly, the stars aligned; partly, we're privileged in that we're self-employed, childless, and could afford it; but also, we just went for it. It was so fun and actually inspired a new goal: I want to go on a one-week girls trip sometime this decade.By this point in my life, I've traveled a lot. I've had so many fun experiences with friends. I was able to do it because I stopped waiting for the stars to align, for that perfect thing to happen. In this episode, I present a special call to stop saying the word someday. Someday I'll go on that girls trip. Someday I will make it out to visit that friend. Someday we'll take that vacation. Here, I offer four tips to help you just get that friend trip on the calendar.In this episode you'll hear about:My trip with my friend: what we did, where we stayed, what the logistics looked like, and why it was so fun (but also, not the norm for friend trips)Starting with small gatherings – Slumber party! Staycation! Weekend away! Board game night! – which can help build momentum for larger tripsInvolving everyone in the process and giving plenty of time to plan for care and work arrangements (and how this can be part of the bonding experience with friends)Making the trip attainable and enjoyable for everyone involved, with focus on connection and relaxation, as opposed to creating the “ideal” vacationResources & LinksInterested in trying a slumber party with your friends? Listen to Episode 28. Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

In this episode, I pull back the curtain on one of my own formal communities: the Toastmasters.Today's guest is Brendan Smith, a member of the Toastmasters chapter I was part of. Toastmasters is an international speaking club and educational organization, and for four years, Brendan and I met with the group every Thursday: sometimes online, sometimes in person; sometimes as presenters, sometimes as listeners. We all shared a common goal – to become better communicators and speakers – but there was an underlying benefit, too. You get to know people in a formal community. Over time, you develop a feeling of belonging to it.Since talking with Brendan, I have to admit, I did not renew my Toastmasters membership. I was not able to invest in it the way I felt I should have due to work and health stuff I've been going through. And though it's not a part of my weekly schedule anymore, I have such fond memories of the Toastmasters. It will always be a valuable part of my story and community.In this episode you'll hear about:What a formal community is and the importance of its regularity, from its structure to its shared goalsWhat it was like joining Toastmasters with Brendan early COVID and what our club looked like: the variety of members of different ages, careers, and backgroundsThe importance of discomfort, shared experiences, and informal interactions in building a strong formal communityWhat we learn when we're experiencing things with people – or talking with them “side-by-side” instead of face-to-faceResources & LinksLike what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

This episode, about navigating friendship through chronic illness, is deeply personal to me.In last week's episode, I shared about my own recent health issues, but I think this information is good to have no matter your situation. Chances are, chronic illness will impact somebody in your life in your lifetime.Today's guest is Catherine, a business coach, founder of Catherine LifeDesign, and a survivor of chronic illness. Here, Catherine shares about her “perfect storm” of life events – including a miscarriage and Hashimoto's disease diagnosis – that resulted in a severe health crash.Chronic illness is hard. There is no exact solution on how to navigate friendships around this; it's so personal and so nuanced. But my hope is that this one more story out there offers ideas on how to deal with this if it's impacting your own life.In this episode you'll hear about:Catherine's dream life: a successful business, a tropical Mediterranean home – and how it all fell apart with her three-year illness that stumped so many doctorsThe power of the friends who kept calling and asking how she was – a simple thing that offered comfort and support thousands of miles awayThe skill of managing your own emotional state and seeking the right support when you need it (and the importance of supplementing with professional support)The skill of rebuilding relationships, which Catherine learned on her healing journey, and how she views and interacts with friends nowHow friendship roots change when somebody goes through a major life change or illness (and how that impacts the work required to maintain the friendship)Resources & Links:Follow Catherine on Instagram and on her website.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

This whole podcast was only a dream a couple years ago, and here we are now with 100 episodes. Thank you for being here, for listening, and for sharing these conversations with your friends.In this episode, I share some life updates and talk intensely about the Wheel of Connection (view this visual diagram!), which is a foundational concept to my work. I give an overview about each of the categories, and at the end of the episode, I talk about how to do a basic Wheel of Connection audit. You deserve Level 10 support, and hopefully this helps you to take more intentional action to develop the connections you need for this season of life. Want to go even deeper? Sign up for my newsletter to receive more information, including announcements about my forthcoming book and the Wheel of Connection audio guide.In this episode you'll hear about:Life updates regarding my health, two Taylor Swift concerts, and the major milestone of this episodeThe Wheel of Connection: why I made it, why it's round, why it looks different for everyoneHow your own Wheel of Connection is constantly changing: people move between categories, and different categories grow and shrink depending on your needsWheel of Connection components: family of origin; family of choice; formal community; acquaintance; and familiar/defined/present/historic friendHow the Wheel of Connection and Roots Framework work together, and how to conduct a Wheel of Connection auditResources & Links:Here are some visuals of the Wheel of Connection and my Roots framework. Want more? Sign up for my newsletter to receive more information, including announcements about my forthcoming book and the Wheel of Connection audio guide.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Individualism is woven so deeply into the fabric of American culture that sometimes we don't even notice it. But what if this cornerstone of our culture is costing us more than we realize?Today's guest is James F. Richardson, a cultural anthropologist who spent two decades studying American society – which included living a more communal life in South India for three years. His new book, Our Worst Strength, challenges our approach to individualism as a way of life.I read the book, and it was interesting to notice what came up. Most eye-opening was realizing how deeply ingrained the individualism mindset is. I simultaneously didn't like what I was reading about individualism and didn't want to change anything about it.Was this eye-opening for you too? Be sure to read James's book and check out his substack. If you're like me, thinking about what a number individualism has done on our lives, remember we can't change this overnight. It takes small shifts over time to make big change.In this episode you'll hear about:How American society often values personal autonomy and freedom at the expense of responsibility and obligationThings that have affected communal interactions in America, from societal norms that prioritize achievement to the rise of modern media and entertainmentHaving meaningful conversations and sharing skills with friends instead of using friendship as a source of entertainmentThe need for community members to observe and inquire about the emotional well-being of others Getting comfortable with bringing together people who are in different phases of life; plus, why I hate the “200 hours to make a friend” statResources & Links:Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Have you ever felt like you're ALWAYS the one giving a shoulder to cry on – but don't have one to cry on yourself?I think it's a common issue among friends. Personally, I used to brag about how I'd drop everything to help a friend in need – but I eventually discovered it wasn't sustainable, and my friends didn't reciprocate in quite the same way.Today's guest, Chrissy Marie, experienced similar issues, having always been the “space holder” or “fixer” for other people but never sharing the depths of her own emotions – which consequently led to one-sided connections.Here, Chrissy – who is also a trauma-informed embodiment practitioner and founder of The Art of Aliveness podcast – shares her journey of unraveling these patterns and offers tips on how to build a diverse support network that holds space for ALL of you – no fixing required.In this episode you'll hear about:Chrissy experience being the “space holder” for other people and the watershed moment that cracked her openThe fear of losing a friendship if you decide to pull back (and my own personal experience with this)Why, sometimes, being the “fixer” isn't actually supporting people in the way you think it isThe difference between allowing people to know something about you vs. allowing them to see your feelings and emotions about itFire circles, reparenting the child inside you, a brilliant structure for a Zoom call, and filling the gaps with professional supportResources & Links:Be sure to follow Chrissy Marie on her website and listen to her podcast, The Art of Aliveness.In this episode I mentioned Episode 49 about small talk; Episode 91, about taking charge of your guest experience; Episode 74 about small intimacies; and Episode 85, about shifting people-pleasing patterns.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Have you ever hesitated to set a boundary with a friend for fear of pushing them away? Or, maybe you found yourself on the receiving end of unspoken expectations and left guessing what your friend truly needed. Our friendships are some of the only relationships we have by choice – but sometimes that freedom can make us hesitate to trust. We're subconsciously testing our friends, waiting for them to prove they will show up and listen. These tests can strain a friendship.But what if setting boundaries didn't have to be a test? What if instead we saw it as a bridge: a way to deepen the connection and show our friends how to love us better?Today, I talk all about friendship boundaries with Zya Be, host of the podcast Your Hell Yes Life. We share real-life experiences with boundaries in friendship and stories about those bridge-crossing moments.In this episode you'll hear about:When owning your “yes” is also about owning your “no” – and how to reassess boundaries that are no longer serving youBeing cognizant and upfront about how you like spending time with people, plus, how to create bridges instead of boundariesDifferent ways you can take a “friendship pause” if a pattern isn't working rather than immediately ending the friendshipSmall intimacies, self-love, self-care, and the importance of being explicit about what's needed when you (or a friend) are going through a hard timeResources & Links:In this episode I mention Episode 40 and Episode 54, which are both about neurodivergent friendships, and Episode 74, which is about small intimacies.Listen to Your Hell Yes Life with Zya Be and follow her on Facebook.Read Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab. Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Today I'm going to share my personal hot takes about friendship.If you've been listening to Friendship IRL for a while, you'll recognize some of these ideas, but some thoughts are new, and some I haven't presented as directly as I do today. I was inspired by Danielle Bayard Jackson's recent episode on the Friend Forward podcast, “6 Hot Takes on Female Friendships.” Here, I cover topics ranging from making friends with people of the opposite gender (which I love!) to the term “best friend” (which I hate!).Honestly, I think doing this work has cemented a lot of these friendship beliefs for me, but I'd love to hear your thoughts: which hot takes do you agree or disagree with? This is a great episode for new listeners to start with, so please: send this to a friend, too!In this episode you'll hear about:The fallacy that we need only a few close friends (and in particular, a best friend) and the truth about what the most supportive network actually looks likeHow diversity in friendships can help us imagine different ways to live and be in the world – and consequently better understand ourselvesOver-sharing vs. under-sharing in friendship and why it's actually not a bad thing when we're not invitedThe possible repercussions when you finally allow yourself to be uncomfortable in friendship Resources & Links:This episode was inspired by Danielle Bayard Jackson's recent episode, “6 Hot Takes on Female Friendships.” Danielle is host of the Friend Forward podcast and was a guest here during Episode 77 about female friendships. Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Imagine you've made the move you've always dreamed of. You live on the other side of the world and experience a new culture. It changes how you see your life – and almost imperceptibly, it changes you, too. When you return home, things are different among your friends. You don't fit in the way you used to.Today's guest, Linda Mueller, has lived this challenge firsthand through seven international moves over the course of thirteen years. Today, she is a life coach and mentor who empowers international women in the journey of relocation and repatriation. How do you reconnect with old friends when you've become a different version of yourself? While Linda's story centers on international relocations, I think there are takeaways that apply to so many transformative life experiences. In this episode you'll hear about:The impact on relationships based on emotional intimacy roots when we become new versions of ourselvesReverse culture shock and the importance of keeping an open mind when it comes to forging new connections and maintaining old onesThe instinct to add vs. to cut when it comes to looking at the scope of friendships in our lives (and in particular, adding people with similar interests or available time)Juggling a mixture of glass and plastic balls, and focusing on harmony instead of balanceHow technology enables us to hold on to so many more people than we used to – which creates new challenges!Resources & Links:Sign up for Linda's newsletter and receive five strategies to make the most out of your time abroad, and follow Suneera Madhani, whose brilliant metaphor about juggling plastic vs. glass balls is mentioned in this episode.Go back to Episode 12 and learn about my theory about the Roots Framework and listen to Episode 87 about spring cleaning your friendships.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

If you've ever felt overwhelmed and exhausted by everything you have to do (while still worrying you aren't doing enough!) then this episode is for you.Today I'm talking about burnout with Lesley Waldron, is a burnout coach who is also a sandwich caregiver (a parent and caregiver to a parent). Much of our conversation tackles this conundrum: friendship is hard during burnout, yet, it's also crucial for our well-being.I wish I could say this episode has all the answers, but unfortunately there is no magic solution. We're here to acknowledge a challenging situation many of you face and offer small ways to ease burnout in your own life.Sometimes what you need most when you're running on empty is actually a social connection: a hug, a swim date, a walk, or a living room dance party with a friend. In this episode you'll hear about:The stressors of being a caregiver, plus, the neurological and physiological shifts stress triggers in your body, from blood pressure to focusDifferent ways to “complete” the burnout stress cycle, from physical activity and laughter to social interaction and affectionEmotional labor: expressing your emotions to accommodate and elevate the emotions of others (which is common especially among women)Four steps to use social connection as a means to complete the cycle if you're experiencing burnoutGroup gatherings vs. one-on-one gatherings: which do you find more restorative? Plus, the role of oxytocin in combating burnoutResources & Links:Read Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski and Amelia Nagoski and Emotional Labor: The Invisible Work Shaping our Lives and How to Claim Our Power by Rose Hackman.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

There's no better way to test your friendship skills than to move to a new city, and today's guest, Leannda Shearer, has moved to a new city not once or twice but eight different times!So, at this point, you could say she's an expert at building a support system. With each new move, she's learned that it takes not just the right skillset but also the right mindset to create meaningful connections.Leannda is also a resilience coach and host of the podcast Rising with Phoenix Grace, and in this episode, she provides amazing tips and tricks on how to make new friends after a move, plus, some of her favorite quotes about friendship.There's a lot packed into this episode, and I think these tips apply to anyone who's trying to make an impact or change in their friendships or community.In this episode you'll hear about:The skillset AND mindset required to make new friends, plus, the benefits of even “surface level” connections (see my Wheel of Connection framework)Making friends and “putting things on the wall,” even when you know this place is only temporary (and how to not overthink your connections that aren't reciprocating)How new friends see you for who you are in this moment and not just who you used to be or what you've gone throughSome of Leannda's favorite places to make new friends, from meetup.com to networking nights to Facebook groupsSome of Leannda's and my favorite inspirational quotes regarding friendship, from Heidi Priebe to Winnie the PoohResources & Links:Listen to Leannda's podcast, Rising with Phoenix Grace.Listen to Episode 48 with Michele Reichman and be sure to look at my Wheel of Connection framework.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Sometimes, when our social lives feel lacking, we find ourselves living  vicariously through others and wondering: how come they're all living their lives and I'm not?This is the experience today's guest, Christine Hetzel, found herself in during a kind of quarter-life crisis. To turn her friendship situation around, she took the initiative and began organizing different kinds of public meet-ups.Today Christine is the host of the Time for Brunch podcast and blog where she coaches clients on how to prioritize their own needs and personal development. She has since organized meet-up groups around the world with hundreds of members.This episode is packed with inspiration on how to make the connections you want right now. As Christine reminds us, you can't sit around and imagine things might magically change. You have to go and take action. In this episode you'll hear about:How Christine turned her friendship situation around by organizing meet-ups all over the worldThe sometimes under-appreciated work of event-organizing, and how to not take things too personally in friendships (especially new ones)The joy of friendship match-making, and how to broaden your network not as a means to “close the deal” but widen your possibilitiesBeing curious about what lights people up, and the conversation starter we both hate the mostFolding past friendships, relationships, and acquaintances into your next season of friendshipsResources & Links:Listen to the episodes Christine mentions in this episode including Episode 24 (Marco Polo), Episode 41 (the Liking Gap), Episodes 44 and 48 (finding friends on the internet), Episode 49 (navigating small talk), and Episode 91 (party/event envy).And be sure to check out Christine Hetzel's blog and podcast, Time for Brunch and listen to the episode I recorded with her!Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

If you're somebody who dreads going to a party, then this episode is for you.Sometimes the couch feels more appealing than going out into the world and socializing, and I get it. Attending a gathering takes energy. Sometimes it feels awkward. But gatherings can also make us feel inspired and supported and invigorated.Today I offer an approach that will help you take charge of your guest experience with three simple questions. You can ask yourself these questions before you leave, while you're driving, or even on your way inside. It's that easy.My hope is that this episode helps more gatherings feel like time well-spent – and that, consequently, you'll want to say yes to more invitations in the future, too.In this episode you'll hear about:Why do we like being invited? What feeling do we think a gathering will offer? And why do we sometimes feel dread on the day of?What the very best gatherings can provide: a shift in momentum, a feeling of relief, a connection made, something learnedHow to take charge of our guest experiences and create moments of meaning by asking three simple questionsRemembering that we don't always know what will happen – and that sometimes the most unexpected gatherings can actually be the most impactfulResources & Links:Read The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker. It's amazing!Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Do you know men who don't have close friends?It's a common problem (one that I cover in Episode 31 and Episode 32 of this podcast) with major implications. Poor social and mental health in men is connected with all kinds of other issues ranging from suicide and depression to gun violence.Joining me to talk about this issue is Antonio Neves, a leadership expert, motivational speaker, award-winning journalist, bestselling author of Stop Living on Autopilot, host of the podcast The Antonio Neves Show, and founder of Man Morning.This episode is full of great advice for men who are looking to rebuild their social circles. His major suggestion: take action! Find a group. Give a friend a call. Put something on the calendar. It might feel awkward, but it's all part of the process.In this episode you'll hear about:My personal experience seeing the downside of poor friendship support networks when my mom passed away and my dad became a single parent of three kidsFace-to-face communicators vs. side-to-side communicators, and the difference between big conversations at 7 a.m. vs. 7 p.m.Antonio's advice on how to push past the “Level 1 Listener” status; plus, five of the most powerful words you can say in a conversationThe power of investing in ourselves, particularly our support systems, BEFORE we hit rock bottomResources & Links:Want to hear more on this topic? Be sure to listen to Episode 31 and Episode 32.Check out Antonio's book Stop Living on Autopilot, listen to The Antonio Neves Show, and learn about Man Morning.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Today I talk about two friendship terms I've been hearing more about lately: the “couch friend” and the “errand friend.”Lots of people want these kinds of friendships because they're supposed to be easy. You do life's responsibilities together or you do absolutely nothing together – no planning or panic cleaning required.But how do you find these friends? How do you find someone you're so comfortable with that you can just sit back and watch TV in your sweatpants together, and it's not weird? My thoughts? If you want a couch friend, you have to BE a couch friend. If you want an errand friend, you have to BE an errand friend. In this episode, I offer a few ideas about how to put that energy out into the world, from embracing spontaneity to encouraging your guests to get their own glasses of water.In this episode you'll hear about:What a couch friend is, what an errand friend is, and why these kinds of relationships are often with already established friendsLeaning into a more casual energy from the getgo in a new friendship instead of putting your best foot forwardHow I act when I have couch-type friends coming over (hint, I might be in sweatpants, and I'm probably not panic cleaning)What kind of energy does somebody bring when they come over? Is it roommate energy? Or are you waiting on them?Creative ways you might actually be able to spend time with a couch or errand friend even if you're a parent or busy adultResources & Links:Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Have you ever gone back to an old friend, only to realize it's not the same as it was?This is the experience of today's guest, Sarah Marie Paige, who in this episode shares about her amazing high school friend group – a group she assumed she'd be able to re-enter without a hitch post law school.Instead, she learned they couldn't actually pick up where they left off. Just like with plants, if you don't water your friendships, they don't continue to live. So, Sarah created a new community, one that supports her new lifestyle as a lawyer and fantasy writer.I hope this episode makes those who've experienced this phenomenon feel less alone and realize that there are options – you can try to start over with these old friendships, or, like Sarah, you can put your energy elsewhere to build what you need.In this episode you'll hear about:Sarah's high school friends, who kept in touch post graduation via blog for several years but eventually lost touchGrieving the loss of old friendships, which change as we grow older, and the crossroads ahead: do you start over with them or find new friends?Sarah's life as a fantasy writer, and her books, each of which is a kind of love letter to a specific friend – plus,  how she met new friends who support this passionThe importance of having a WHY when it comes to community – why are you bringing these people together? What is your shared purpose?Resources & Links:Sarah is a fantasy author! Check out her books on her website!Go back to Episode 12 and learn about my theory about the Roots Framework.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

There are some friendships we just need to let go of. In some instances, this means letting go of an aspect of a friendship. In others, this actually means letting go of an entire friendship.Today's guest is Emily Rogers, a transition and leadership coach and the host of the Leap to Lead podcast (which I was recently a guest on; link in the show notes!). Emily has lived overseas for 20 years and has personally navigated many moves and transitions. She says that with each transition comes a spring cleaning of sorts with past connections, which requires stepping back and reflecting on the energy of these relationships. Can you alter the expectations of this friendship? How will you connect? Is it time to let go entirely?Hopefully this episode helps you navigate those transitions with more grace and intention, so that, if you desire, those old friendships can still thrive in their new forms.In this episode you'll hear about:The different kinds of life transitions that affect friendship: physical moves; starting a family; a new romantic relationship; a medical emergency; finishing school, etc.Instances in which you SHOULDN'T do the work (for example: a toxic relationship; lack of capacity; you simply don't want to)Recognizing energy: when it's right, when it's not right, and when it's time to shift your friendships (and remembering that what feels right now might not feel right later!)The impact of taking a step back six to eight months after a big move or life transition to make sure your friendships aren't draining (or sliming!) youManaging interactions with draining people you have to spend time with (for example, doing an activity together or only hanging out in groups)Resources & LinksListen to Emily's podcast, The Leap to Lead, which I was recently a guest on!Go back to Episode 12 and learn about my theory about the Roots Framework.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

Have you ever met someone truly magnetic? They walk into the room, and suddenly, the energy shifts. People are drawn to them. Some might argue that this is just the way some people were born. They inherited some gene that the rest of us didn't.But I believe magnetic individuals are just people who are doing the thing, putting themselves out there and taking action consistently – which over time, creates momentum and that coveted main character energy. You are the main character in your own life, and when you're stuck riding somebody else's waves, it's easy to lose sight of your own needs and interests! So that's what today's episode is about: creating momentum and embodying that main character energy in your own life.In this episode you'll hear about:What main character energy is: taking action, speaking up for yourself, prioritizing community connectionWhat main character energy is not: centering yourself in every relationship; blaming other people as the problem; never taking responsibilityPeeling back the layers of your authentic self and letting yourself be seen, especially the things about you that make you colorful and interestingGiving yourself the glow-up without the life-changing event and making yourself the center of your connection universeThree tips and two challenges to help you get your own main character energyResources & Links:Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

A few years ago, I realized that one of my friendship patterns was actually kind of a problem.I'd show up for my friends as Superwoman, bragging that I could (and would) drop everything and do anything for my friends – even if it meant betraying myself and my own needs. Then, when I really needed help, I'd never ask for it.I think we all have friendship patterns and tendencies. Some are good. Some are not. What's important is taking a step back to determine whether they serve our friendships.We can talk about this stuff in theory, but hearing real stories makes all the difference, and today's guest, Deb Blum, the CEO and founder of the Whole Soul Way, shares her own tales with truth and vulnerability, from her historical wariness of female friendships to the midlife realization that made all the difference.In this episode you'll hear about:Becoming friends with people who feel “safe enough” and the feeling of being “too much” – plus, the difference between fitting in and belongingMismatches in relationships vs. mismatches in the moment, and how sometimes people just aren't in the same places at the same timeThe friendship patterns Deb finally realized midlife that were impacting her relationships and how she shifted those to create better onesThe impact our parents have on how we interact with friends and how close we allow people to get to usThe damage it can do to friendships when you don't share your whole truth – and how people pleasing can actually be a bit of a betrayalResources & Links:Learn about the Whole Soul Way and follow Deb Blum on Facebook and Instagram.Dive deeper into these ideas and listen to Episode 15, about managing differences in friendships.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

What are your friendship beliefs? What stories do you tell yourself about your friendships?Today's episode might be one of the most important I've ever recorded because it gets at the heart of so many people's struggles: core beliefs about friendship.Here, I'm joined by Sarah Siegert, founder of Friendships Abroad. Inspired by her own experience moving from Hamburg to London, Sarah is a friendship coach who helps people living abroad create meaningful connections and overcome their loneliness. As Sarah points out in today's episode, our relationships start with us. If we want healthy friendships, we have to be willing to do the inner work first. In this episode you'll hear about:Sarah's experience moving from Germany to London in 2019 and her struggles to fit in within a whole new countryDoing the inner work and training our brains to see the similarities between each other instead of the differencesCreating new friendship habits and developing close relationships within a friendship groupIntroverts vs. extroverts, recharging your social batteries, and being intentional about what you're looking for in friendshipsResources & Links:Check out Episode 42 about friendship trios, which is about developing a close friendship within a group and follow Sarah on Instagram and visit her website.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

I just want to make friends who are in the same stage of life as me.In this business, I hear some of the same phrases over and over, and this is one of them. I love that goal, and it's a big part of what I talk about on the podcast. But recently, I've also noticed a trend in which people are seeking friends who are in DIFFERENT life stages.So that's what I'm talking about today. Why would you want friends in different life stages than you? And more importantly, how do you make and maintain friendships with people whose current life circumstances are so different from yours?Personally, I'm looking for a walking buddy, and I feel like that perfect someone might not be a fellow entrepreneur in their mid-30s. What friendships are you looking for in your own life? How might people in different life stages add some richness to your social wellness?In this episode you'll hear about:The tendency to lean on sameness or perceived similarity in friendships – and the similarities you can still find between friends in different life stages Why sometimes it's actually easier to spend time with people in different life stages because they have different time constraintsThe opportunities for sharing wisdom and learning when you're friends with people who are older or younger than youHow sometimes having friends in different stages of life alleviates pressure to act or be a certain way – plus, ideas on how to find these friends!Resources & Links:Learn about my Wheel of Connection framework and be sure to check out Episode 77 about female friendships and Episode 15, about managing differences in friendships.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

One thing I always say is creating a community is the ultimate self-care.In today's episode, we dive deep into this idea with my good friend Jenny Dreizen, who is the co-founder of the Fresh Starts Registry, which I'm a huge supporter of. The Fresh Starts Registry is a registry for all of life's new beginnings, from divorces to graduations, big moves to scary diagnoses. (Sound familiar? I also talked with Jenny's sister and co-founder Olivia in Episode 68!)Jenny is the perfect friend for me to sit down and have this conversation with because so much of her work centers around supporting people through changes and transitions. BTW, don't let anyone tell you that you can't make friends on the internet. Jenny and I have never met in person, yet, I can totally see our friendship spanning 30 years from now.In this episode you'll hear about:What it means to be in your “friendship era” and why sometimes doing less actually serves friendships moreFriendship breaks vs. just taking a step back from friendship or cutting off just part of a friendshipPutting yourself in places and environments that feel authentic to you and the importance of trusting your gut about your relationshipsComing back to people whose energies didn't used to align with yours but actually do nowInternet friends, selfless acts, and how deciding to actively engage in your community is actually the ultimate self-careResources & Links:Learn about small intimacies in Episode 74, check out the Fresh Starts Registry, follow them on Instagram, and listen to Episode 68 to hear my conversion with Fresh Starts co-founder (and Jenny's sister) Olivia. Also, don't forget to listen to their podcast, A Fresh Story (including the episode I recorded with them).Olivia and Jenny have also written these amazing scripts for what to say when you don't know what to say.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

If you're having a bad day, try bragging about a friend. Talk about that thing they did and why they're so great – it will turn your whole day around.Today I'm bragging about my new friend Anna Goldfarb, author of Modern Friendships, which is about the nuances of adult friendships. Anna is a journalist whose reporting has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post and Vox. Her book is absolutely amazing.You'll find we have lots of overlap in the ways we think about friendship, but of course, we are different people, and she provides slightly different perspectives and language on the topic. Today's episode was such a delightful conversation; it felt like we could talk forever. If you like what I put out on this podcast, be sure to buy her book!In this episode you'll hear about:The topic of friendship over the last few years, which became magnified during and after the pandemicFriendship strategies that are outdated in today's super fluid society, putting people in positions where they can't commitHow Anna's research impacted her relationship with her sister and her own friendshipsThe importance of having flexible expectations as you and your friends move into different phases of lifeThe thing that's flattening our friendships that our ancestors didn't have to deal with and the amount of time it actually takes to develop close relationshipsResources & Links:Sign up for Anna's newsletter and buy her book, Modern Friendships: How to Nurture Our Most Valued Connections.Want to hear more about flexible friendship expectations? Check out Episode 33, “The New Version of Friendship,” and Episode 45, about friendship demotions.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!

How do we balance community and independence?This question is posed by today's guest, Donna Fields, who, twenty years ago, moved to Spain, and experienced culture shock, going from the United States – an individualistic society – to one that was collectivist and communal. Donna is an author, professor, teacher, trainer, and host of the podcast Doorways to Learning with Donna. Here, she asks: what do we look for when we leave one place and go to another? For her, it was family and community. But is it possible to be TOO communal? Spaniards are often extremely family oriented, but is it possible family ties literally tie them down when they could have more experiences if allowed to cut loose? When you move somewhere so different, it makes you wonder: where's the balance? What feels right to me?I love episodes like today's. It feels like we could just be sitting around the kitchen table with a cup of coffee, trying to explore life's deeper meanings. We don't answer all the questions, but it sure is an interesting conversation.In this episode you'll hear about:All about Donna – her background in New York and New Mexico and how she ended up in Spain for the last 20 yearsWhat do we look for when we leave one place and go to another? And why do we leave the house in general – to do something, or to be with other people?Spanish vs. American culture: how each views family, community, reciprocity, trust, etc., and the pros and cons of eachThe hyper-vigilance required in individualistic societies where you're doing everything by yourselfThe ripple effects we can have on others and the power of letting go Resources & Links:Donna has compiled some material that will generate fascinating conversations about cultural differences and the natural unions of communities. Check out Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community by Robert D. Putnam, and if you haven't yet, listen to Episode 41 about the Liking Gap.Like what you hear? Visit my website, leave me a voicemail, and follow me on Instagram and TikTok!Want to take this conversation a step further? Send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out!