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The reception to our recent post on Code Reviews has been strong. Catch up!Amid a maelstrom of discussion on whether or not AI is killing SaaS, one of the top publicly listed SaaS companies in the world has just reported record revenues, clearing well over $1.1B in ARR for the first time with a 28% margin. As we comment on the pod, Aaron Levie is the rare public company CEO equally at home in both worlds of Silicon Valley and Wall Street/Main Street, by day helping 70% of the Fortune 500 with their Enterprise Advanced Suite, and yet by night is often found in the basements of early startups and tweeting viral insights about the future of agents.Now that both Cursor, Cloudflare, Perplexity, Anthropic and more have made Filesystems and Sandboxes and various forms of “Just Give the Agent a Box” cool (not just cool; it is now one of the single hottest areas in AI infrastructure growing 100% MoM), we find it a delightfully appropriate time to do the episode with the OG CEO who has been giving humans and computers Boxes since he was a college dropout pitching VCs at a Michael Arrington house party.Enjoy our special pod, with fan favorite returning guest/guest cohost Jeff Huber!Note: We didn't directly discuss the AI vs SaaS debate - Aaron has done many, many, many other podcasts on that, and you should read his definitive essay on it. Most commentators do not understand SaaS businesses because they have never scaled one themselves, and deeply reflected on what the true value proposition of SaaS is.We also discuss Your Company is a Filesystem:We also shoutout CTO Ben Kus' and the AI team, who talked about the technical architecture and will return for AIE WF 2026.Full Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00 Adapting Work for Agents* 01:29 Why Every Agent Needs a Box* 04:38 Agent Governance and Identity* 11:28 Why Coding Agents Took Off First* 21:42 Context Engineering and Search Limits* 31:29 Inside Agent Evals* 33:23 Industries and Datasets* 35:22 Building the Agent Team* 38:50 Read Write Agent Workflows* 41:54 Docs Graphs and Founder Mode* 55:38 Token FOMO Culture* 56:31 Production Function Secrets* 01:01:08 Film Roots to Box* 01:03:38 AI Future of Movies* 01:06:47 Media DevRel and EngineeringTranscriptAdapting Work for AgentsAaron Levie: Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and does it for you, and you may be at best review it. That's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work.We basically adapted to how the agent works. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution. Right now, it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this ‘cause you'll see compounding returns. But that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: Welcome to the Lane Space Pod. We're back in the chroma studio with uh, chroma, CEO, Jeff Hoover. Welcome returning guest now guest host.Aaron Levie: It's a pleasure. Wow. How'd you get upgraded to, uh, to that?swyx: Because he's like the perfect guy to be guest those for you.Aaron Levie: That makes sense actually, for We love context. We, we both really love context le we really do.We really do.swyx: Uh, and we're here with, uh, Aaron Levy. Welcome.Aaron Levie: Thank you. Good to, uh, good to be [00:01:00] here.swyx: Uh, yeah. So we've all met offline and like chatted a little bit, but like, it's always nice to get these things in person and conversation. Yeah. You just started off with so much energy. You're, you're super excited about agents.I loveAaron Levie: agents.swyx: Yeah. Open claw. Just got by, got bought by OpenAI. No, not bought, but you know, you know what I mean?Aaron Levie: Some, some, you know, acquihire. Executiveswyx: hire.Aaron Levie: Executive hire. Okay. Executive hire. Say,swyx: hey, that's my term. Okay. Um, what are you pounding the table on on agents? You have so many insightful tweets.Why Every Agent Needs a BoxAaron Levie: Well, the thing that, that we get super excited by that I think is probably, you know, should be relatively obvious is we've, we've built a platform to help enterprises manage their files and their, their corporate files and the permissions of who has access to those files and the sharing collaboration of those files.All of those files contain really, really important information for the enterprise. It might have your contracts, it might have your research materials, it might have marketing information, it might have your memos. All that data obviously has, you know, predominantly been used by humans. [00:02:00] But there's been one really interesting problem, which is that, you know, humans only really work with their files during an active engagement with them, and they kind of go away and you don't really see them for a long time.And all of a sudden, uh, with the power of AI and AI agents, all of that data becomes extremely relevant as this ongoing source of, of answers to new questions of data that will transform into, into something else that, that produces value in your organization. It, it contains the answer to the new employee that's onboarding, that needs to ramp up on a project.Um, it contains the answer to the right thing to sell a customer when you're having a conversation to them, with them contains the roadmap information that's gonna produce the next feature. So all that data. That previously we've been just sort of storing and, and you know, occasionally forgetting about, ‘cause we're only working on the new active stuff.All of that information becomes valuable to the enterprise and it's gonna become extremely valuable to end users because now they can have agents go find what they're looking for and produce new, new [00:03:00] value and new data on that information. And it's gonna become incredibly valuable to agents because agents can roam around and do a bunch of work and they're gonna need access to that data as well.And um, and you know, sometimes that will be an agent that is sort of working on behalf of, of, of you and, and effectively as you as and, and they are kind of accessing all of the same information that you have access to and, and operating as you in the system. And then sometimes there's gonna be agents that are just.Effectively autonomous and kind of run on their own and, and you're gonna collaborate and work with them kind of like you did another person. Open Claw being the most recent and maybe first real sort of, you know, kind of, you know, up updating everybody's, you know, views of this landscape version of, of what that could look like, which is, okay, I have an agent.It's on its own system, it's on its own computer, it has access to its own tools. I probably don't give it access to my entire life. I probably communicate with it like I would an assistant or a colleague and then it, it sort of has this sandbox environment. So all of that has massive implications for a platform that manage that [00:04:00] enterprise data.We think it's gonna just transform how we work with all of the enterprise content that we work with, and we just have to make sure we're building the right platform to support that.swyx: The sort of shorthand I put it is as people build agents, everybody's just realizing that every agent needs a box. Yes.And it's nice to be called box and just give everyone a box.Aaron Levie: Hey, I if I, you know, if we can make that go viral, uh, like I, I think that that terminology, I, that's theswyx: tagline. Every agentAaron Levie: needs a box. Every agent needs a box. If we can make that the headline of this, I'm fine with this. And that's the billboard I wanna like Yeah, exactly.Every agent needs a box. Um, I like it. Can we ship this? Like,swyx: okay, let's do it. Yeah.Aaron Levie: Uh, my work here is done and I got the value I needed outta this podcast Drinks.swyx: Yeah.Agent Governance and IdentityAaron Levie: But, but, um, but, but, you know, so the thing that we, we kind of think about is, um, is, you know, whether you think the number 10 x or a hundred x or whatever the number is, we're gonna have some order of magnitude more agents than people.That's inevitable. It has to happen. So then the question is, what is the infrastructure that's needed to make all those agents effective in the enterprise? Make sure that they are well governed. Make sure they're only doing [00:05:00] safe things on your information. Make sure that they're not getting exposed. The data that they shouldn't have access to.There's gonna be just incredibly spectacularly crazy security incidents that will happen with agents because you'll prompt, inject an agent and sort of find your way through the CRM system and pull out data that you shouldn't have access to. Oh, weJeff Huber: have God,Aaron Levie: right? I mean, that's just gonna happen all over the place, right?So, so then the thing is, is how do you make sure you have the right security, the permissions, the access controls, the data governance. Um, we actually don't yet exactly know in many cases how we're gonna regulate some of these agents, right? If you think about an agent in financial services, does it have the exact same financial sort of, uh, requirements that a human did?Or is it, is the risk fully on the human that was interacting or created the agent? All open questions, but no matter what, there's gonna need to be a layer that manages the, the data they have access to, the workflows that they're involved in, pulling up data from multiple systems. This is the new infrastructure opportunity in the era of agents.swyx: You have a piece on agent identities, [00:06:00] which I think was today, um, which I think a lot of breaking news, the security, security people are talking about, right? Like you basically, I, I always think of this as like, well you need the human you and then there you need the agent. YouAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: And uh, well, I don't know if it's that simple, but is box going to have an opinion on that or you're just gonna be like, well we're just the sort of the, the source layer.Yeah. Let's Okta of zero handle that.Aaron Levie: I think we're gonna have an opinion and we will work with generally wherever the contours of the market end up. Um, and the reason that we're gonna have an opinion more than other topics probably is because one of the biggest use cases for why your agent might need it, an identity is for file system access.So thus we have to kind of think about this pretty deeply. And I think, uh, unless you're like in our world thinking about this particular problem all day long, it might be, you know, like, why is this such a big deal? And the reason why it's a really big deal is because sometimes sort of say, well just give the agent an, an account on the system and it just treats, treat it like every other type of user on the system.The [00:07:00] problem is, is that I as Aaron don't really have any responsibility over anybody else's box account in our organization. I can't see the box account of any other employee that I work with. I am not liable for anything that they do. And they have, I have, I have, you know, strict privacy requirements on everything that they're able to, you know, that, that, that they work on.Agents don't have that, you know, don't have those properties. The person who creates the agent probably is gonna, for the foreseeable future, take on a lot of the liability of what that agent does. That agent doesn't deserve any privacy because, because it's, you know, it can't fully be autonomously operated and it doesn't have any legal, you know, kind of, you know, responsibility.So thus you can't just be like, oh, well I'll just create a bunch of accounts and then I'll, I'll kind of work with that agent and I'll talk to it occasionally. Like you need oversight of that. And so then the question is, how do you have a world where the agent, sometimes you have oversight of, but what if that agent goes and works with other people?That person over there is collaborating with the agent on something you shouldn't have [00:08:00] access to what they're doing. So we have all of these new boundaries that we're gonna have to figure out of, of, you know, it's really, really easy. So far we've been in, in easy mode. We've hit the easy button with ai, which is the agent just is you.And when you're in quad code and you're in cursor, and you're in Codex, you're just, the agent is you. You're offing into your services. It can do everything you can do. That's the easy mode. The hard mode is agents are kind of running on their own. People check in with them occasionally, they're doing things autonomously.How do you give them access to resources in the enterprise and not dramatically increased the security risk and the risk that you might expose the wrong thing to somebody. These are all the new problems that we have to get solved. I like the identity layer and, and identity vendors as being a solution to that, but we'll, we'll need some opinions as well because so many of the use cases are these collaborative file system use cases, which is how do I give it an agent, a subset of my data?Give it its own workspace as well. ‘cause it's gonna need to store off its own information that would be relevant for it. And how do I have the right oversight into that? [00:09:00]Jeff Huber: One thing, which, um, I think is kind interesting, think about is that you know, how humans work, right? Like I may not also just like give you access to the whole file.I might like sit next to you and like scroll to this like one part of the file and just show you that like one part and like, you know,swyx: partial file access.Jeff Huber: I'm just saying I think like our, like RA does seem to be dead, right? Like you wanna say something is dead uhhuh probably RA is dead. And uh, like the auth story to me seems like incredibly unsolved and unaddressed by like the existing state of like AI vendors.ButAaron Levie: yeah, I think, um, we're, I mean you're taking obviously really to level limit that we probably need to solve for. Yeah. And we built an access control system that was, was kind of like, you know, its own little world for, for a long time. And um, and the idea was this, it's a many to many collaboration system where I can give you any part of the file system.And it's a waterfall model. So if I give you higher up in the, in the, in the system, you get everything below. And that, that kind of created immense flexibility because I can kind of point you to any layer in the, in the tree, but then you're gonna get access to everything kind of below it. And that [00:10:00] mostly is, is working in this, in this world.But you do have to manage this issue, which is how do I create an agent that has access to some of my stuff and somebody else's stuff as well. Mm-hmm. And which parts do I get to look at as the creator of the agent? And, and these are just brand new problems? Yeah. Crazy. And humans, when there was a human there that was really easy to do.Like, like if the three of us were all sharing, there'd be a Venn diagram where we'd have an overlapping set of things we've shared, but then we'd have our own ways that we shared with each other. In an agent world, somebody needs to take responsibility for what that agent has access to and what they're working on.These are like the, some of the most probably, you know, boring problems for 98% of people on, on the internet, but they will be the problems that are the difference between can you actually have autonomous agents in an enterprise contextswyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: That are not leaking your data constantly.swyx: No. Like, I mean, you know, I run a very, very small company for my conference and like we already have data sensitivity issues.Yes. And some of my team members cannot see Yes. Uh, the others and like, I can't imagine what it's like to run a Fortune 500 and like, you have to [00:11:00] worry about this. I'm just kinda curious, like you, you talked to a lot like, like 70, 80% of your cus uh, of the Fortune 500, your customers.Aaron Levie: Yep. 67%. Just so we're being verySEswyx: precise.So Yeah. I'm notAaron Levie: Okay. Okay.swyx: Something I'm rounding up. Yes. Round up. I'm projecting to, forAaron Levie: the government.swyx: I'm projecting to the end of the year.Aaron Levie: Okay.swyx: There you go.Aaron Levie: You do make it sound like, like we, we, well we've gotta be on this. Like we're, we're taking way too long to get to 80%. Well,swyx: no, I mean, so like. How are they approaching it?Right? Because you're, you don't have a, you don't have a final answer yet.Why Coding Agents Took Off FirstAaron Levie: Well, okay, so, so this is actually, this is the stark reality that like, unfortunately is the kinda like pouring the water on the party a little bit.swyx: Yes.Aaron Levie: We all in Silicon Valley are like, have the absolute best conditions possible for AI ever.And I think we all saw the dke, you know, kind of Dario podcast and this idea of AI coding. Why is that taken off? And, and we're not yet fully seeing it everywhere else. Well, look, if you just like enumerated the list of properties that AI coding has and then compared it to other [00:12:00] knowledge work, let's just, let's just go through a few of them.Generally speaking, you bring on a new engineer, they have access to a large swath of the code base. Like, there's like very, like you, just, like new engineer comes on, they can just go and find the, the, the stuff that they, they need to work with. It's a fully text in text out. Medium. It's only, it's just gonna be text at the end of the day.So it's like really great from a, from just a, uh, you know, kinda what the agent can work with. Obviously the models are super trained on that dataset. The labs themselves have a really strong, kind of self-reinforcing positive flywheel of why they need to do, you know, agent coding deeply. So then you get just better tooling, better services.The actual developers of the AI are daily users of the, of the thing that they're we're working on versus like the, you know, probably there's only like seven Claude Cowork legal plugin users at Anthropic any given day, but there's like a couple thousand Claude code and you know, users every single day.So just like, think about which one are they getting more feedback on. All day long. So you just go through this list. You have a, you know, everybody who's a [00:13:00] developer by definition is technical so they can go install the latest thing. We're all generally online, or at least, you know, kinda the weird ones are, and we're all talking to each other, sharing best practices, like that's like already eight differences.Versus the rest of the economy. Every other part of the economy has like, like six to seven headwinds relative to that list. You go into a company, you're a banker in financial services, you have access to like a, a tiny little subset of the total data that's gonna be relevant to do your job. And you're have to start to go and talk to a bunch of people to get the right data to do your job because Sally didn't add you to that deal room, you know, folder.And that that, you know, the information is actually in a completely different organization that you now have to go in and, and sort of run into. And it's like you have this endless list of access controls and security. As, as you talked about, you have a medium, which is not, it's not just text, right? You have, you have a zoom call that, that you're getting all of the requirements from the customer.You have a lot of in-person conversations and you're doing in-person sales and like how do you ever [00:14:00] digitize all of that information? Um, you know, I think a lot of people got upset with this idea that the code base has all the context, um, that I don't know if you follow, you know, did you follow some of that conversation that that went viral?Is like, you know, it's not that simple that, that the code base doesn't have all the knowledge, but like it's a lot, you're a lot better off than you are with other areas of knowledge work. Like you, we like, we like have documentation practices, you write specifications. Those things don't exist for like 80% of work that happens in the enterprise.That's the divide that we have, which is, which is AI coding has, has just fully, you know, where we've reached escape velocity of how powerful this stuff is, and then we're gonna have to find a way to bring that same energy and momentum, but to all these other areas of knowledge work. Where the tools aren't there, the data's not set up to be there.The access controls don't make it that easy. The context engineering is an incredibly hard problem because again, you have access control challenges, you have different data formats. You have end users that are gonna need to kind of be kind of trained through this as opposed to their adopting [00:15:00] these tools in their free time.That's where the Fortune 500 is. And so we, I think, you know, have to be prepared as an industry where we are gonna be on a multi-year march to, to be able to bring agents to the enterprise for these workflows. And I think probably the, the thing that we've learned most in coding that, that the rest of the world is not yet, I think ready for, I mean, we're, they'll, they'll have to be ready for it because it's just gonna inevitably happen is I think in coding.What, what's interesting is if you think about the practice of coding today versus two years ago. It's probably the most changed workflow in maybe the history of time from the amount of time it's changed, right? Yeah. Like, like has any, has any workflow in the entire economy changed that quickly in terms of the amount of change?I just, you know, at least in any knowledge worker workflow, there's like very rarely been an event where one piece of technology and work practice has so fundamentally, you know, changed, changed what you do. Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and [00:16:00] does it for you, and you may be at best review it.And even that's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work. We basically adapted to how the agent works. Mm-hmm. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution.The rest of the economy is gonna have to update its workflows to make agents effective. And to give agents the context that they need and to actually figure out what kind of prompting works and to figure out how do you ensure that the agent has the right access to information to be able to execute on its work.I, you know, this is not the panacea that people were hoping for, of the agent drops in, just automates your life. Like you have to basically re-engineer your workflow to get the most out of agents and, uh, and that, that's just gonna take, you know, multiple years across the economy. Right now it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this.‘cause [00:17:00] you'll see compounding returns, but that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: I love, I love pushing back. I think that. That is what a lot of technology consultants love to hear this sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First to, to embrace the ai. Yes. To get to the promised land, you must pay me so much money to a hundred percent to adopt the prescribed way of, uh, conforming to the agents.Yes. And I worry that you will be eclipsed by someone else who says, no, come as you are.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And we'll meet you where you are.Aaron Levie: And, and, and and what was the thing that went viral a week ago? OpenAI probably, uh, is hiring F Dees. Yeah. Uh, to go into the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. And then philanthropic is embedded at Goldman Sachs.Yeah. So if the labs are having to do this, if, if the labs have decided that they need to hire FDE and professional services, then I think that's a pretty clear indication that this, there's no easy mode of workflow transformation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so to your point, I think actually this is a market opportunity for, you know, new professional services and consulting [00:18:00] firms that are like Agent Build and they, and they kind of, you know, go into organizations and they figure out how to re-engineer your workflows to make them more agent ready and get your data into the right format and, you know, reconstruct your business process.So you're, you're not doing most of the work. You're telling agents how to do the work and then you're reviewing it. But I haven't seen the thing that can just drop in and, and kinda let you not go through those changes.swyx: I don't know how that kind of sales pitch goes over. Yeah. You know, you're, you're saying things like, well, in my sort of nice beautiful walled garden, here's, there's, uh, because here's this, here's this beautiful box account that has everything.Yes. And I'm like, well, most, most real life is extremely messy. Sure. And like, poorly named and there duplicate this outdated s**tAaron Levie: a hundred percent. And so No, no, a hundred percent. And so this is actually No. So, so this is, I mean, we agree that, that getting to the beautiful garden is gonna be tough.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: There's also the other end of the spectrum where I, I just like, it's a technical impossibility to solve. The agent is, is truly cannot get enough context to make the right decision in, in the, in the incredibly messy land. Like there's [00:19:00] no a GI that will solve that. So, so we're gonna have to kind of land in somewhere in between, which is like we all collectively get better at.Documentation practices and, and having authoritative relatively up-to-date information and putting it in the right place like agents will, will certainly cause us to be much better organized around how we work with our information, simply because the severity of the agent pulling the wrong data will be too high and the productivity gain of that you'll miss out on by not doing this will be too high as well, that you, that your competition will just do it and they'll just have higher velocity.So, uh, and, and we, we see this a lot firsthand. So we, we build a series of agents internally that they can kind of have access to your full box account and go off and you give it a task and it can go find whatever information you're looking for and work with. And, you know, thank God for the model progress, but like, if, if you gave that task to an agent.Nine months ago, you're just gonna get lots of bogus answers because it's gonna, it's gonna say, Hey, here's, here are fi [00:20:00] five, you know, documents that all kind of smell like the right thing. And I'm gonna, but I, but you're, you're putting me on the clock. ‘cause my assistant prompt says like, you know, be pretty smart, but also try and respond to the user and it's gonna respond.And it's like, ah, it got the wrong document. And then you do that once or twice as a knowledge worker and you're just neverswyx: again,Aaron Levie: never again. You're just like done with the system.swyx: Yeah. It doesn't work.Aaron Levie: It doesn't work. And so, you know, Opus four six and Gemini three one Pro and you know, whatever the latest five 3G BT will be, like, those things are getting better and better and it's using better judgment.And this sort of like the, all of these updates to the agentic tool and search systems are, are, we're seeing, we're seeing very real progress where the agent. Kind of can, can almost smell some things a little bit fishy when it's getting, you know, we, we have this process where we, we have it go fan out, do a bunch of searches, pull up a bunch of data, and then it has to sort of do its own ranking of, you know, what are the right documents that, that it should be working with.And again, like, you know, the intelligence level of a model six months ago, [00:21:00] it'd be just throwing a dart at like, I'm just, I'm gonna grab these seven files and I, I pray, I hope that that's the right answer. And something like an opus first four five, and now four six is like, oh, it's like, no, that one doesn't seem right relative to this question because I'm seeing some signal that is making that, you know, that's contradicting the document where it would normally be in the tree and who should have access.Like it's doing all of that kind of work for you. But like, it still doesn't work if you just have a total wasteland of data. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Partly ‘cause a human wouldn't even be able to do it. So basically if a, if a really, really smart human. Could not do that task in five or 10 minutes for a search retrieval type task.Look, you know, your agent's not gonna be able to do it any better. You see this all day long. SoContext Engineering and Search Limitsswyx: this touches on a thing that just passionate about it was just context engineering. I, I'm just gonna let you ramble or riff on, on context engineering. If, if, if there's anything like he, he did really good work on context fraud, which has really taken over as like the term that people use and the referenceAaron Levie: a hundred percent.We, we all we think about is, is the context rob problem. [00:22:00]Jeff Huber: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of like ranking considerations. Gentech surgery think is incredibly promising. Um, yeah, I was trying to generate a question though. I think I have a question right now. Swyx.Aaron Levie: Yeah, no, but like, like I think there was this moment, um, you know, like, I don't know, two years ago before, before we knew like where the, the gotchas were gonna be in ai and I think someone was like, was like, well, infinite context windows will just solve all of these problems and ‘cause you'll just, you'll just give the context window like all the data and.It's just like, okay, I mean, maybe in 2035, like this is a viable solution. First of all, it, it would just, it would just simply cost too much. Like we just can't give the model like the 5,000 documents that might be relevant and it's gonna read them all. And I've seen enough to, to start believing in crazy stuff.So like, I'm willing to just say, sure. Like in, in 10 years from now,swyx: never say, never, never.Aaron Levie: In, in 10 years from now, we'll have infinite context windows at, at a thousandth of the price of today. Like, let's just like believe that that's possible, but Right. We're in reality today. So today we have a context engineering [00:23:00] problem, which is, I got, I got, you know, 200,000 tokens that I can work with, or prob, I don't even know what the latest graph is before, like massive degradation.16. Okay. I have 60,000 tokens that I get to work with where I'm gonna get accurate information. That's not a lot of tokens for a corpus of 10 million documents that a knowledge worker might have across all of the teams and all the projects and all the people they work with. I have, I have 10 million documents.Which, you know, maybe is times five pages per document or something like that. I'm at 50 million pages of information and I have 60,000 tokens. Like, holy s**t. Yeah. This is like, how do I bridge the 50 million pages of information with, you know, the couple hundred that I get to work with in that, in that token window.Yeah. This is like, this is like such an interesting problem and that's why actually so much work is actually like, just like search systems and the databases and that layer has to just get so locked in, but models getting better and importantly [00:24:00] knowing when they've done a search, they found the wrong thing, they go back, they check their work, they, they find a way to balance sort of appeasing the user versus double checking.We have this one, we have this one test case where we ask the agent to go find. 10 pieces of information.swyx: Is this the complex work eval?Aaron Levie: Uh, this is actually not in the eval. This is, this is sort of just like we have a bunch of different, we have a bunch of internal benchmark kind of scenarios. Every time we, we update our agent, we have one, which is, I ask it to find all of our office addresses, and I give it the list of 10 offices that we have.And there's not one document that has this, maybe there should be, that would be a great example of the kind of thing that like maybe over time companies start to, you know, have these sort of like, what are the canonical, you know, kind of key areas of knowledge that we need to have. We don't seem to have this one document that says, here are all of our offices.We have a bunch of documents that have like, here's the New York office and whatever. So you task this agent and you, you get, you say, I need the addresses for these 10 offices. Okay. And by the way, if you do this on any, you know, [00:25:00] public chat model, the same outcome is gonna happen. But for a different kind of query, you give it, you say, I need these 10 addresses.How many times should the agent go and do its search before it decides whether or not, there's just no answer to this question. Often, and especially the, the, let's say lower tier models, it'll come back and it'll give you six of the 10 addresses. And it'll, and I'll just say I couldn't find the otherswyx: four.It, it doesn't know what It doesn't know. ItAaron Levie: doesn't know what It doesn't know. Yeah. So the model is just like, like when should it stop? When should it stop doing? Like should it, should it do that task for literally an hour and just keep cranking through? Maybe I actually made up an office location and it doesn't know that I made it up and I didn't even know that I made it up.Like, should it just keep, re should it read every single file in your entire box account until it, until it should exhaust every single piece of information.swyx: Expensive.Aaron Levie: These are the new problems that we have. So, you know, something like, let's say a new opus model is sort of like, okay, I'm gonna try these types of queries.I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna, at [00:26:00] some point I'm gonna stop searching. ‘cause I've determined that that no amount of searching is gonna solve this problem. I'm just not able to do it. And that judgment is like a really new thing that the model needs to be able to have.It's like, when should it give up on a task? ‘cause, ‘cause you just don't, it's a can't find the thing. That's the real world of knowledge, work problems. And this is the stuff that the coding agents don't have to deal with. Because they, it just doesn't like, like you're not usually asking it about, you're, you're always creating net new information coming right outta the model for the most part.Obviously it has to know about your code base and your specs and your documentation, but, but when you deploy an agent on all of your data that now you have all of these new problems that you're dealing withJeff Huber: our, uh, follow follow-up research to context ride is actually on a genetic search. Ah. Um, and we've like right, sort of stress tested like frontier models and their ability to search.Um, and they're not actually that good at searching. Right. Uh, so you're sort of highlighting this like explore, exploit.swyx: You're just say, Debbie, Donna say everything doesn't work. Like,Aaron Levie: well,Jeff Huber: somebody has to be,Aaron Levie: um, can I just throw out one more thing? Yeah. That is different from coding and, and the rest [00:27:00] of the knowledge work that I, I failed to mention.So one other kind of key point is, is that, you know, at the end of the day. Whether you believe we're in a slop apocalypse or, or whatever. At the end of the day, if you, if you build a working product at the end of, if you, if you've built a working solution that is ultimately what the customer is paying for, like whether I have a lot of slop, a little slop or whatever, I'm sure there's lots of code bases we could go into in enterprise software companies where it's like just crazy slop that humans did over a 20 year period, but the end customer just gets this little interface.They can, they can type into it, it does its thing. Knowledge work, uh, doesn't have that property. If I have an AI model, go generate a contract and I generate a contract 20 times and, you know, all 20 times it's just 3% different and like that I, that, that kind of lop introduces all new kinds of risk for my organization that the code version of that LOP didn't, didn't introduce.These are, and so like, so how do you constrain these models to just the part that you want [00:28:00] them to work on and just do the thing that you want them to do? And, and, you know, in engineering, we don't, you can't be disbarred as an engineer, but you could be disbarred as a lawyer. Like you can do the wrong medical thing In healthcare, you, there's no, there's no equivalent to that of engineering.Like, doswyx: you want there to be, because I've considered softwareJeff Huber: engineer. What's that? Civil engineering there is, right? NotAaron Levie: software civil engineer. Sure. Oh yeah, for sure. But like in any of our companies, you like, you know, you'll be forgiven if you took down the site and, and we, we will do a rollback and you'll, you'll be in a meeting, but you have not been disbarred as an engineer.We don't, we don't change your, you know, your computer science, uh, blameJeff Huber: degree, this postmortem.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, so, uh, now maybe we collectively as an industry need to figure out like, what are you liable for? Not legally, but like in a, in a management sense, uh, of these agents. All sorts of interesting problems that, that, that, uh, that have to come out.But in knowledge work, that's the real hostile environments that we're operating in. Hmm.swyx: I do think like, uh, a lot of the last year's, 2025 story was the rise of coding agents and I think [00:29:00] 2026 story is definitely knowledge work agents. Yes. A hundredAaron Levie: percent.swyx: Right. Like that would, and I think open claw core work are just the beginning.Yes. Like it's, the next one's gonna just gonna be absolute craziness.Aaron Levie: It it is. And, and, uh, and it's gonna be, I mean, again, like this is gonna be this, this wave where we, we are gonna try and bring as many of the practices from coding because that, that will clearly be the forefront, which is tell an agent to go do something and has an access to a set of resources.You need to be responsible for reviewing it at the end of the process. That to me is the, is the kind of template that I just think goes across knowledge, work and odd. Cowork is a great example. Open Closet's a great example. You can kind of, sort of see what Codex could become over time. These are some, some really interesting kind of platforms that are emerging.swyx: Okay. Um, I wanted to, we touched on evals a little bit. You had, you had the report that you're gonna go bring up and then I was gonna go into like, uh, boxes, evals, but uh, go ahead. Talk about your genetic search thing.Jeff Huber: Yeah. Mostly I think kinda a few of the insights. It's like number one frontier model is not good at search.Humans have this [00:30:00] natural explore, exploit trade off where we kinda understand like when to stop doing something. Also, humans are pretty good at like forgetting actually, and like pruning their own context, whereas agents are not, and actually an agent in their kind of context history, if they knew something was bad and they even, you could see in the trace the reason you trace, Hey, that probably wasn't a good idea.If it's still in the trace, still in the context, they'll still do it again. Uhhuh. Uh, and so like, I think pruning is also gonna be like, really, it's already becoming a thing, right? But like, letting self prune the con windowsswyx: be a big deal. Yeah. So, so don't leave the mistake. Don't leave the mistake in there.Cut out the mistake but tell it that you made a mistake in the past and so it doesn't repeat it.Jeff Huber: Yeah. But like cut it out so it doesn't get like distracted by it again. ‘cause really, you know, what is so, so it will repeat its mistake just because it's been, it's inswyx: theJeff Huber: context. It'sAaron Levie: in the context so much.That's a few shot example. Even if it, yeah.Jeff Huber: It's like oh thisAaron Levie: is a great thing to go try even ifJeff Huber: it didn't work.Aaron Levie: Yeah,Jeff Huber: exactly.Aaron Levie: SoJeff Huber: there's like a bunch of stuff there. JustAaron Levie: Groundhogs Day inside these models. Yeah. I'm gonna go keep doing the same wrongJeff Huber: thing. Covering sense. I feel like, you know, some creator analogy you're trying like fit a manifold in latent space, which kind is doing break program synthesis, which is kinda one we think about we're doing right.Like, you know, certain [00:31:00] facts might be like sort of overly pitting it. There are certain, you know, sec sectors of latent space and so like plug clean space. Yeah. And, uh, andswyx: so we have a bell, our editor as a bell every time you say that. SoJeff Huber: you have, you have to like remove those, likeswyx: you shoulda a gong like TPN or something.IfJeff Huber: we gong, you either remove those links to like kinda give it the freedom, kind of do what you need to do. So, but yeah. We'll, we'll release more soon. That'sAaron Levie: awesome.Jeff Huber: That'll, that'll be cool.swyx: We're a cerebral podcast that people listen to us and, and sort of think really deep. So yeah, we try to keep it subtle.Okay. We try to keep it.Aaron Levie: Okay, fine.Inside Agent Evalsswyx: Um, you, you guys do, you guys do have EVs, you talked about your, your office thing, but, uh, you've been also promoting APEX agents and complex work. Uh, yeah, whatever you, wherever you wanna take this just Yeah. How youAaron Levie: Apex is, is obviously me, core's, uh, uh, kind of, um, agent eval.We, we supported that by sort of. Opening up some data for them around how we kind of see these, um, data workspaces in, in the, you know, kind of regular economy. So how do lawyers have a workspace? How do investment bankers have a workspace? What kind of data goes into those? And so we, [00:32:00] we partner with them on their, their apex eval.Our own, um, eval is, it's actually relatively straightforward. We have a, a set of, of documents in a, in a range of industries. We give the agent previously did this as a one shot test of just purely the model. And then we just realized we, we need to, based on where everything's going, it's just gotta be more agentic.So now it's a bit more of a test of both our harness and the model. And we have a rubric of a set of things that has to get right and we score it. Um, and you're just seeing, you know, these incredible jumps in almost every single model in its own family of, you know, opus four, um, you know, sonnet four six versus sonnet four five.swyx: Yeah. We have this up on screen.Aaron Levie: Okay, cool. So some, you're seeing it somewhere like. I, I forget the to, it was like 15 point jump, I think on the main, on the overall,swyx: yes.Aaron Levie: And it's just like, you know, these incredible leaps that, that are starting to happen. Um,swyx: and OP doesn't know any, like any, it's completely held out from op.Aaron Levie: This is not in any, there's no public data which has, you know, Ben benefits and this is just a private eval that we [00:33:00] do, and then we just happen to show it to, to the world. Hmm. So you can't, you can't train against it. And I think it's just as representative of. It's obviously reasoning capabilities, what it's doing at, at, you know, kind of test time, compute capabilities, thinking levels, all like the context rot issues.So many interesting, you know, kind of, uh, uh, capabilities that are, that are now improvingswyx: one sector that you have. That's interesting.Industries and Datasetsswyx: Uh, people are roughly familiar with healthcare and legal, but you have public sector in there.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Uh, what's that? Like, what, what, what is that?Aaron Levie: Yeah, and, and we actually test against, I dunno, maybe 10 industries.We, we end up usually just cutting a few that we think have interesting gains. All extras, won a lot of like government type documents. Um,swyx: what is that? What is it? Government type documents?Aaron Levie: Government filings. Like a taxswyx: return, likeAaron Levie: a probably not tax returns. It would be more of what would go the government be using, uh, as data.So, okay. Um, so think about research that, that type of, of, of data sets. And then we have financial services for things like data rooms and what would be in an investment prospectus. Uhhuh,swyx: that one you can dog food.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. [00:34:00] So, uh, so we, we run the models, um, in now, you know, more of an agent mode, but, but still with, with kinda limited capacity and just try and see like on a, like, for like basis, what are the improvements?And, and again, we just continue to be blown away by. How, how good these models are getting.swyx: Yeah, I mean, I think every serious AI company needs something like that where like, well, this is the work we do. Here's our company eval. Yeah. And if you don't have it, well, you're not a serious AI company.Aaron Levie: There's two dimensions, right?So there's, there's like, how are the models improving? And so which models should you either recommend a customer use, which one should you adopt? But then every single day, we're making changes to our agents. And you need to knowswyx: if you regressed,Aaron Levie: if you know. Yeah. You know, I've been fully convinced that the whole agent observability and eval space is gonna be a massive space.Um, super excited for what Braintrust is doing, excited for, you know, Lang Smith, all the things. And I think what you're going to, I mean, this is like every enter like literally every enterprise right now. It's like the AI companies are the customers of these tools. Every enterprise will have this. Yeah, you'll just [00:35:00] have to have an eval.Of all of your work and like, we'll, you'll have an eval of your RFP generation, you'll have an eval of your sales material creation. You'll have an eval of your, uh, invoice processing. And, and as you, you know, buy or use new agentic systems, you are gonna need to know like, what's the quality of your, of your pipeline.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: Um, so huge, huge market with agent evals.swyx: Yeah.Building the Agent Teamswyx: And, and you know, I'm gonna shout out your, your team a bit, uh, your CTO, Ben, uh, did a great talk with us last year. Awesome. And he's gonna come back again. Oh, cool. For World's Fair.Aaron Levie: Yep.swyx: Just talk about your team, like brag a little bit. I think I, I think people take these eval numbers in pretty charts for granted, but No, there, I mean, there's, there's lots of really smart people at work during all this.Aaron Levie: Biggest shout out, uh, is we have a, we have a couple folks at Dya, uh, Sidarth, uh, that, that kind of run this. They're like a, you know, kind of tag tag team duo on our evals, Ben, our CTO, heavily involved Yasha, head of ai, uh, you know, a bunch of folks. And, um, evals is one part of the story. And then just like the full, you know, kind of AI.An agent team [00:36:00] is, uh, is a, is a pretty, you know, is core to this whole effort. So there's probably, I don't know, like maybe a few dozen people that are like the epicenter. And then you just have like layers and layers of, of kind of concentric circles of okay, then there's a search team that supports them and an infrastructure team that supports them.And it's starting to ripple through the entire company. But there's that kind of core agent team, um, that's a pretty, pretty close, uh, close knit group.swyx: The search team is separate from the infra team.Aaron Levie: I mean, we have like every, every layer of the stack we have to kind of do, except for just pure public cloud.Um, but um, you know, we, we store, I don't even know what our public numbers are in, you know, but like, you can just think about it as like a lot of data is, is stored in box. And so we have, and you have every layer of the, of the stack of, you know, how do you manage the data, the file system, the metadata system, the search system, just all of those components.And then they all are having to understand that now you've got this new customer. Which is the agent, and they've been building for two types of customers in the past. They've been building for users and they've been building for like applications. [00:37:00] And now you've got this new agent user, and it comes in with a difference of it, of property sometimes, like, hey, maybe sometimes we should do embeddings, an embedding based, you know, kind of search versus, you know, your, your typical semantic search.Like, it's just like you have to build the, the capabilities to support all of this. And we're testing stuff, throwing things away, something doesn't work and, and not relevant. It's like just, you know, total chaos. But all of those teams are supporting the agent team that is kind of coming up with its requirements of what, what do we need?swyx: Yeah. No, uh, we just came from, uh, fireside chat where you did, and you, you talked about how you're doing this. It's, it's kind of like an internal startup. Yeah. Within the broader company. The broader company's like 3000 people. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's a, this is a core team of like, well, here's the innovation center.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And like that every company kind of is run this way.Aaron Levie: Yeah. I wanna be sensitive. I don't call it the innovation center. Yeah. Only because I think everybody has to do innovation. Um, there, there's a part of the, the, the company that is, is sort of do or die for the agent wave.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And it only happens to be more of my focus simply because it's existential that [00:38:00] we get it right.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: All of the supporting systems are necessary. All of the surrounding adjacent capabilities are necessary. Like the only reason we get to be a platform where you'd run an agent is because we have a security feature or a compliance feature, or a governance feature that, that some team is working on.But that's not gonna be the make or break of, of whether we get agents right. Like that already exists and we need to keep innovating there. I don't know what the right, exact precise number is, but it's not a thousand people and it's not 10 people. There's a number of people that are like the, the kind of like, you know, startup within the company that are the make or break on everything related to AI agents, you know, leveraging our platform and letting you work with your data.And that's where I spend a lot of my time, and Ben and Yosh and Diego and Teri, you know, these are just, you know, people that, that, you know, kind of across the team. Are working.swyx: Yeah. Amazing.Read Write Agent WorkflowsJeff Huber: How do you, how do you think about, I mean, you talked a lot about like kinda read workflows over your box data. Yep.Right. You know, gen search questions, queries, et cetera. But like, what about like, write or like authoring workflows?Aaron Levie: Yes. I've [00:39:00] already probably revealed too much actually now that I think about it. So, um, I've talked about whatever,Jeff Huber: whatever you can.Aaron Levie: Okay. It's just us. It's just us. Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course.So I, I guess I would just, uh, I'll make it a little bit conceptual, uh, because again, I've already, I've already said things that are not even ga but, but we've, we've kinda like danced around it publicly, so I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just like, hopefully nobody watches this, um, episode. No.swyx: It's tidbits for the Heidi engaged to go figure out like what exactly, um, you know, is, is your sort of line of thinking.Sure. They can connect the dots.Aaron Levie: Yeah. So, so I would say that, that, uh, we, you know, as a, as a place where you have your enterprise content, there's a use case where I want to, you know, have an agent read that data and answer questions for me. And then there's a use case where I want the agent to create something.And use the file system to create something or store off data that it's working on, or be able to have, you know, various files that it's writing to about the work it's doing. So we do see it as a total read write. The harder problem has so far been the read only because, because again, you have that kind of like 10 [00:40:00] million to one ratio problem, whereas rights are a lot of, that's just gonna come from the model and, and we just like, we'll just put it in the file system and kinda use it.So it's a little bit of a technically easier problem, but the only part that's like, not necessarily technically hard, it is just like it's not yet perfected in the state of the ecosystem is, you know, building a beautiful PowerPoint presentation. It's still a hard problem for these models. Like, like we still, you know, like, like these formats are just, we're not built for.They'reswyx: working on it.Aaron Levie: They're, they're working on it. Everybody's working on it.swyx: Every launch is like, well, we do PowerPoint now.Aaron Levie: We're getting, yeah, getting a lot, getting a lot of better each time. But then you'll do this thing where you'll ask the update one slide and all of a sudden, like the fonts will be just like a little bit different, you know, on two of the slides, or it moved, you know, some shape over to the left a little bit.And again, these are the kind of things that, like in code, obviously you could really care about if you really care about, you know, how beautiful is the code, but at the end, user doesn't notice all those problems and file creation, the end user instantly sees it. You're [00:41:00] like, ah, like paragraph three, like, you literally just changed the font on me.Like it's a totally different font and like midway through the document. Mm-hmm. Those are the kind of things that you run into a lot of in the, in the content creation side. So, mm-hmm. We are gonna have native agents. That do all of those things, they'll be powered by the leading kind of models and labs.But the thing that I think is, is probably gonna be a much bigger idea over time is any agent on any system, again, using Box as a file system for its work, and in that kind of scenario, we don't necessarily care what it's putting in the file system. It could put its memory files, it could put its, you know, specification, you know, documents.It could put, you know, whatever its markdown files are, or it could, you know, generate PDFs. It's just like, it's a workspace that is, is sort of sandboxed off for its work. People can collaborate into it, it can share with other people. And, and so we, we were thinking a lot about what's the right, you know, kind of way to, to deliver that at scale.Docs Graphs and Founder Modeswyx: I wanted to come into sort of the sort of AI transformation or AI sort of, uh, operations things. [00:42:00] Um, one of the tweets that you, that you wanted to talk about, this is just me going through your tweets, by the way. Oh, okay. I mean, like, this is, you readAaron Levie: one by one,swyx: you're the, you're the easiest guest to prep for because you, you already have like, this is the, this is what I'm interested in.I'm like, okay, well, areAaron Levie: we gonna get to like, like February, January or something? Where are we in the, in the timelines? How far back are we going?swyx: Can you, can you describe boxes? A set of skills? Right? Like that, that's like, that's like one of the extremes of like, well if you, you just turn everything into a markdown file.Yeah. Then your agent can run your company. Uh, like you just have to write, find the right sequence of words toAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: To do it.Aaron Levie: Sorry, isthatswyx: the question? So I think the question is like, what if we documented everything? Yes. The way that you exactly said like,Aaron Levie: yes.swyx: Um, let's get all the Fortune five hundreds, uh, prepared for agents.Yes. And like, you know, everything's in golden and, and nicely filed away and everything. Yes. What's missing? Like, what's left, right? LikeAaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: You've, you've run your company for a decade. LikeAaron Levie: Yeah. I think the challenge is that, that that information changes a week later. And because something happened in the market for that [00:43:00] customer, or us as a company that now has to go get updated, and so these systems are living and breathing and they have to experience reality and updates to reality, which right now is probably gonna be humans, you know, kinda giving those, giving them the updates.And, you know, there is this piece about context graphs as as, uh, that kinda went very viral. Yeah. And I, I, I was like a, i, I, I thought it was super provocative. I agreed with many parts of it. I disagree with a few parts around. You know, it's not gonna be as easy as as just if we just had the agent traces, then we can finally do that work because there's just like, there's so much more other stuff that that's happening that, that we haven't been able to capture and digitize.And I think they actually represented that in the piece to be clear. But like there's just a lot of work, you know, that that has to, you just can't have only skills files, you know, for your company because it's just gonna be like, there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens. Yeah. Change over time.Yeah. Most companies are practically apprenticeships.swyx: Most companies are practically apprenticeships. LikeJeff Huber: every new employee who joins the team, [00:44:00] like you span one to three months. Like ramping them up.Aaron Levie: Yes. AllJeff Huber: that tat knowledgeAaron Levie: isJeff Huber: not written down.Aaron Levie: Yes.Jeff Huber: But like, it would have to be if you wanted to like give it to an Asian.Right. And so like that seems to me like to beAaron Levie: one is I think you're gonna see again a premium on companies that can document this. Mm-hmm. Much. There'll be a huge premium on that because, because you know, can you shorten that three month ramp cycle to a two week ramp cycle? That's an instant productivity gain.Can you re dramatically reduce rework in the organization because you've documented where all the stuff is and where the answers are. Can you make your average employee as good as your 90th percentile employee because you've captured the knowledge that's sort of in the heads of, of those top employees and make that available.So like you can see some very clear productivity benefits. Mm-hmm. If you had a company culture of making sure you know your information was captured, digitized, put in a format that was agent ready and then made available to agents to work with, and then you just, again, have this reality of like add a 10,000 person [00:45:00] company.Mapping that to the, you know, access structure of the company is just a hard problem. Is like, is like, yeah, well, you just, not every piece of information that's digitized can be shared to everybody. And so now you have to organize that in a way that actually works. There was a pretty good piece, um, this, this, uh, this piece called your company as a file is a file system.I, did you see that one?swyx: Nope.Aaron Levie: Uh, yes. You saw it. Yeah. And, and, uh, I actually be curious your thoughts on it. Um, like, like an interesting kind of like, we, we agree with it because, because that's how we see the world and, uh,swyx: okay. We, we have it up on screen. Oh,Aaron Levie: okay. Yeah. But, but it's all about basically like, you know, we've already, we, we, we already organized in this kind of like, you know, permission structure way.Uh, and, and these are the kind of, you know, natural ways that, that agents can now work with data. So it's kind of like this, this, you know, kind of interesting metaphor, but I do think companies will have to start to think about how they start to digitize more, more of that data. What was your take?Jeff Huber: Yeah, I mean, like the company's probably like an acid compliant file system.Aaron Levie: Uh,Jeff Huber: yeah. Which I'm guessing boxes, right? So, yeah. Yes.swyx: Yeah. [00:46:00]Jeff Huber: Which you have a great piece on, but,swyx: uh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I, my, my, my direction is a little bit like, I wanna rewind a little bit to the graph word you said that there, that's a magic trigger word for us. I always ask what's your take on knowledge graphs?Yeah. Uh, ‘cause every, especially at every data database person, I just wanna see what they think. There's been knowledge graphs, hype cycles, and you've seen it all. So.Aaron Levie: Hmm. I actually am not the expert in knowledge graphs, so, so that you might need toswyx: research, you don't need to be an expert. Yeah. I think it's just like, well, how, how seriously do people take it?Yeah. Like, is is, is there a lot of potential in the, in the HOVI?Aaron Levie: Uh, well, can I, can I, uh, understand first if it's, um, is this a loaded question in the sense of are you super pro, super con, super anti medium? Iswyx: see pro, I see pros and cons. Okay. Uh, but I, I think your opinion should be independent of mine.Aaron Levie: Yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I just want to see what I'm stepping into.swyx: No, I know. It's a, and it's a huge trigger word for a lot of people out Yeah. In our audience. And they're, they're trying to figure out why is that? Because whyAaron Levie: is this such aswyx: hot item for them? Because a lot of people get graph religion.And they're like, everything's a graph. Of course you have to represent it as a graph. Well, [00:47:00] how do you solve your knowledge? Um, changing over time? Well, it's a graph.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And, and I think there, there's that line of work and then there's, there's a lot of people who are like, well, you don't need it. And both are right.Aaron Levie: Yeah. And what do the people who say you don't need it, what are theyswyx: arguing for Mark down files. Oh, sure, sure. Simplicity.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Versus it's, it's structure versus less structure. Right. That's, that's all what it is. I do.Aaron Levie: I think the tricky thing is, um, is, is again, when this gets met with real humans, they're just going to their computer.They're just working with some people on Slack or teams. They're just sharing some data through a collaborative file system and Google Docs or Box or whatever. I certainly like the vision of most, most knowledge graph, you know, kind of futuristic kind of ways of thinking about it. Uh, it's just like, you know, it's 2026.We haven't seen it yet. Kind of play out as as, I mean, I remember. Do you remember the, um, in like, actually I don't, I don't even know how old you guys are, but I'll for, for to show my age. I remember 17 years ago, everybody thought enterprises would just run on [00:48:00] Wikis. Yeah. And, uh, confluence and, and not even, I mean, confluence actually took off for engineering for sure.Like unquestionably. But like, this was like everything would be in the w. And I think based on our, uh, our, uh, general style of, of, of what we were building, like we were just like, I don't know, people just like wanna workspace. They're gonna collaborate with other people.swyx: Exactly. Yeah. So you were, you were anti-knowledge graph.Aaron Levie: Not anti, not anti. Soswyx: not nonAaron Levie: I'm not, I'm not anti. ‘cause I think, I think your search system, I just think these are two systems that probably, but like, I'm, I'm not in any religious war. I don't want to be in anybody's YouTube comments on this. There's not a fight for me.swyx: We, we love YouTube comments. We're, we're, we're get into comments.Aaron Levie: Okay. Uh, but like, but I, I, it's mostly just a virtue of what we built. Yeah. And we just continued down that path. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And, um, and that, that was what we pursued. But I'm not, this is not a, you know, kind of, this is not a, uh, it'sswyx: not existential for you. Great.Aaron Levie: We're happy to plug into somebody else's graph.We're happy to feed data into it. We're happy for [00:49:00] agents to, to talk to multiple systems. Not, not our fight.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: But I need your answer. Yeah. Graphs or nerd Snipes is very effective nerd.swyx: See this is, this is one, one opinion and then I've,Jeff Huber: and I think that the actual graph structure is emergent in the mind of the agent.Ah, in the same way it is in the mind of the human. And that's a more powerful graph ‘cause it actually involved over time.swyx: So don't tell me how to graph. I'll, I'll figure it out myself. Exactly. Okay. All right. AndJeff Huber: what's yours?swyx: I like the, the Wiki approach. Uh, my, I'm actually

Hey everyone, I'm Dustin Breeze, your AI meteorologist bringing you lightning-fast forecasts with zero human error. Let's talk New York weather!So here's what's happening in the Big Apple today, and folks, we've got a little weather surprise brewing. Right now it's sitting at a crisp thirty-nine degrees, partly sunny skies, and we're only looking at a twenty percent chance of snow after one o'clock. I know, I know, you're thinking snow in late February? That's what I call a flake-tastic development! The winds are going to be light, starting out of the west around six miles per hour, then shifting east this afternoon. Nothing too wild, which honestly, after the winter we've had, I'm not mad about it.Now let me break down what's coming because this is where it gets interesting. We've got a Special Weather Statement in effect, which means Mother Nature's got something to say. That twenty percent snow chance is really just a light dusting situation after early afternoon, so don't cancel your outdoor plans just yet, New Yorkers.Here's where we transition into our Weather Playbook segment, and I'm pumped about this one. Let's talk about something called wind shear, which is basically when wind changes direction or speed at different altitudes. Think of it like this: imagine you're stacking pancakes, and each layer is moving in a different direction. That's wind shear! It's crucial for forecasting because it can either suppress storm development or make severe weather more likely. In our case today, we're seeing that easterly shift this afternoon, which is keeping things pretty mellow.Alright, here's your three-day forecast:Friday's looking absolutely gorgeous, people. Sunny skies with a high near forty degrees. Light winds shifting south, five to seven miles per hour. Perfect day to grab a bagel from your favorite corner spot and enjoy some vitamin D.Saturday steps it up even more. We're climbing to forty-seven degrees with mostly sunny skies and southwest winds around seven miles per hour. This is the day to get outside if you can.Sunday starts cloudy but clears out gradually, reaching about forty degrees. Partly cloudy nights with lows around twenty-two. Things are cooling back down as we head into next week.Thanks so much for tuning in to the weather segment. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an update. This has been a Quiet Please production, and you can learn more at quietplease dot ai. Stay weather aware out there!This content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

EPISODE 157 | Bohemian Books: Gigas, Voynich & Soyga Some very old books have an air of mystery and intrigue about them. Partly, that's because they are literally hundreds of years old, and partly because of the weird things they contain.  Today, we'll take a look at three, all of which have a connection to the Czech Republic and Prague: the biggest book in the world, the Codex Gigas (also known as the Devil's Bible and which features heavily [no pun intended] in Dan Brown's latest schlock fest), the utterly baffling Voynich Manuscript, which is not written in any recognizable language; and the mysterious Book of Soyga, which disappeared for nearly 400 years, and some say that if you can decipher the final puzzles in the book, you will die. Like what we do? Then buy us a beer or three via our page on Buy Me a Coffee.  Review us here or on IMDb. And seriously, subscribe, will ya? Like, just do it.  SECTIONS 02:11 - The Codex Gigas - That's a big book, contents, legend of origin, Sweden gets it, defenestrations, the Sedlec Bone Church, The Secret of Secrets 11:00 - The Voynich Manuscript - WTF is this thing?, ownership relay, who maybe wrote it, what maybe it says, aspects of Voynichese, obscure languages, steganography, glossolalia, outsider art, a hoax, radiocarbon dating, those who have claimed decipherment, ciphers, people see what they want to, goropism, the Sun Language Theory, recent videos about Alphafold and protein folding, maybe a work of proto-fiction 43:32 - The Book of Soyga - John Dee, Edward Kelley, cryptic puzzles, 400 years lost, found in 1994 Music by Fanette Ronjat More Info The Codex Gigas – Devil's Bible on the National Library of Sweden website The Devil's Bible: My Deep Dive into the Weirdest Book I've Ever Seen Devil's Bible: Codex Gigas in Klementinum on Prague.net from 2007 loan Inside the ‘Devil's Bible,' the Largest Medieval Manuscript Ever Made on ArtNet EPISODE 109 | What's in a Name? The Shakespeare Authorship Debate with Scott Jackson EPISODE 135 | On Shakey Ground: More Shakespeare Authorship with Scott Jackson What Shakespeare Can Teach Us About Communicating with Jennifer King on the Digital Signage Done Right podcast Yale Library webpage on the Voynich Manuscript, with images The riddle of the Voynich Manuscript on the BBC Unsolved Mystery: The Voynich Manuscript An entire website about the Voynich Manuscript The Voynich Manuscript revealed: five things you probably didn't know about the Medieval masterpiece on The Art Newspaper THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT - "The Most Mysterious Manuscript in the World" - NSA report (PDF) Another NSA report on titled The Voynich Manuscript: An Elegant Enigma written in 1978 (PDF) A PDF of the actual Voynich Manuscript Headcanon: The Voynich Manuscript actually doesn't contain any cohesive text and is just a prank done by someone in the past on r/medieval A Scholar Has Cracked the Mystery of the Voynich Manuscript, the Encrypted Medieval Artwork That Defeated Codebreakers for Years on ArtNet Article on the Voynich manuscript on Brazilian website Revista Pesquisa Fapesp The Voynich Wiki How an Emperor Trapped a Con Man - blog on Edward kelley Magic and Mystery: Decoding the Secrets of the Book of Soyga on Discovery The Book of Soyga translated by Jane Kupin (PDF) Decoding the Book of Soyga: A Living Project of Esoteric Discovery The Book of Soyga | Literary History on House of Cadmus Soyga: the book that kills on Blog of Wonders Holy Conversations: The Impact of the Mysterious Book of Soyga on Ancient Origins Book of Soyga on the Voynich Wiki Follow us on social: Facebook X (Twitter) Other Podcasts by Derek DeWitt DIGITAL SIGNAGE DONE RIGHT - Winner of a Gold Quill Award, Gold MarCom Award, AVA Digital Award Gold, Silver Davey Award, and Communicator Award of Excellence, and on numerous top 10 podcast lists.  PRAGUE TIMES - A city is more than just a location - it's a kaleidoscope of history, places, people and trends. This podcast looks at Prague, in the center of Europe, from a number of perspectives, including what it is now, what is has been and where it's going. It's Prague THEN, Prague NOW, Prague LATER 

Inadequate information-sharing and deficient data practices across the Federal Aviation Administration and Department of Defense were to blame, in part, for the midair collision near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport last year, according to the National Transportation Safety Board's final report. NTSB found that the FAA's Air Traffic Organization was “made aware of and had multiple opportunities to identify the risk of a midair collision between airplanes and helicopters,” yet insufficient data analysis, safety assurance systems and risk assessment processes “failed to recognize and mitigate.” While the Army was “unaware” of certain risks tied to DCA due to a nonexistent flight safety data-monitoring program for its helicopters, NTSB also found the Army had a weak safety management system that failed to consistently detect hazards. “The limited access to and use of available objective and subjective proximity data hindered industry and government stakeholders' ability to identify hazards and mitigate risk,” NTSB said in its report. As part of NTSB's analysis, the watchdog had 50 to 60 staff members on the investigation, who gathered 19,000 pages of evidence, Jennifer Homendy, chairwoman of the NTSB, testified during a Senate hearing Thursday. The collision, ultimately, was preventable, she said. After successfully launching its own internal chatbot and normalizing the use of artificial intelligence tools for translation, summarization and other diplomatically beneficial uses, the State Department is eyeing the next step in its journey with the emerging technology. “We're going to roll out agentic AI,” State Department CIO Kelly Fletcher said Thursday during the FedScoop-produced GDIT Emerge event in Washington, D.C. “We're going to continue to embed AI in our systems.” The State Department has been a federal leader in AI adoption, reflected in robust use case inventories and a general embrace of the technology at its highest levels. Current tech leaders remain focused on trying to “democratize access to generative AI” throughout the agency, Fletcher said. That likely means that any shift toward agentic AI won't come with a snap of the fingers. Still, the department is currently looking to “consolidate and standardize and simplify around commodities,” she said, which could cover everything from end-user devices to help desks. “It sounds really wonky,” Fletcher added, but “the more you can make it easy for people to do their job, to reduce administrative friction, the better off you're going to be, right? Part of that is agents. Part of that is consolidation.” The Daily Scoop Podcast is available every Monday-Friday afternoon. If you want to hear more of the latest from Washington, subscribe to The Daily Scoop Podcast  on Apple Podcasts, Soundcloud, Spotify and YouTube.

Join Paul Spain as he welcomes Marian Johnson for a lively discussion about New Zealand's tech innovation scene. Explore the NZ Hi-Tech Awards, tips for aspiring finalists, Partly's exciting journey in North America, and why New Zealand is positioned to lead globally in technology and innovation.Plus, the latest tech news including:NZ's annual space launch limit increasedChris Liddell joins AnthropicParking fine Tech mishapsRussian Soldiers tricked by fake Starlink registrationsRing doorbell Superbowl ad sparks privacy backlashBlue Origin unveils TeraWave Satellite Internet ServiceA big thank you to our show partners One NZ, Spark, Workday, 2degrees, Fortinet and Gorilla Technology.

By mid-March 1879, Cetshwayo kaMpande made another attempt to open talks with Chelmsford, sending his indunas to negotiate for peace — but the British had no appetite for compromise. On the 22nd March two emissaries arrived at Middle Drift, a central crossing between Natal and Zululand, but Chelmsford had already laid out rules that any Zulu representatives should communicate directly with him. Captain Frank Cherry who was He commanding officer of the 3rd Regiment, Natal Native Contingent (NNC), was stationed at Middle Drift. His job was primarily defensive—guarding that specific crossing point against a potential Zulu counter-invasion of Natal. Alongside him, F.B. Fynney - the Border Agent for the Lower Tugela. Fynney was a crucial figure because he was one of the few British officials who was fluent in Zulu and understood the nuances of Zulu diplomacy. The two messengers used their Christian names, Johannes and Klaas. They brought a message from King Cetshwayo that essentially said: "What have I done? I want peace. Let the fighting stop.” They were frigidly received and sent back with a reminder about the terms of the ultimatum before war began. The British were also fully aware that Cetshwayo had called a general muster of his army at oNdini, and believed the two messengers were actually spies. A day later, on the 23rd March, two other messengers arrived in Eshowe but Lieutenant Colonel Pearson ordered them to be clapped into irons — they were spies he said and could not be accorded the traditional sanctity they enjoyed at royal emissaries. Not to be denied, Cetshwayo, who by now had been joined by his main army and he was pondering where to send them. Unfortunately for Colonel Evelyn Wood, the Zulu King decided they should attack his column. After the largely inconsequential but shocking massacre at the Ntombe River we covered last episode, Colonel Wood was in a bit of a bind. He'd lost over 70 men on the 12th March. Still, he had something positive to report to Lord Chelmsford, Cetshwayo's eldest brother prince Hamu had decided to switch sides and support the British. Many of the men of his amaButho had fought the British at Isandlwana, and Wood promptly recruited these very same men into his column as irregular troops, despite the fact that their spears had been so recently washed by imperial British blood. It is hard to explain how the military works to most people, but battles are not carried out with the hot headedness of hate. So when a soldier wants to swap sides, usually they are debriefed, given a quick training update, checked to ensure they're not lunatics, and then given their new uniforms and weapons and signed on. They are very useful when it comes to intelligence gathering. Chelmsford was over the moon about Hamu's move, and believed what he called the “important event” would ‘spread doubt and distrust in Zululand'. Partly to alleviate the pressure on Pearson in Eshowe, and partly because he hoped to capitalise on Hamu's arrival, Chelmsford gave Wood carte blanche to make an attack on the Zulu. “If you are in a position to make any forward movement about the 27th March, so that the news may reach the neighbourhood of Eshowe about the 29th, I think it might have a good effect…” A relief column was on it's way from Natal and would soon cross the lower Thukela on its way to Eshowe. Perhaps some kind of victory to the north where Wood was operating would draw Zulu amabutho away. Wood was nothing if not a quick operator. A few days after receiving the order, on the 28th March, he launched a two-pronged attack on the abaQulusi stronghold of Hlobane Mountain. It was risky, not only did he have no idea of how many Zulu warriors faced him, he also had no idea about what lay in store on the summit.

By mid-March 1879, Cetshwayo kaMpande made another attempt to open talks with Chelmsford, sending his indunas to negotiate for peace — but the British had no appetite for compromise. On the 22nd March two emissaries arrived at Middle Drift, a central crossing between Natal and Zululand, but Chelmsford had already laid out rules that any Zulu representatives should communicate directly with him. Captain Frank Cherry who was He commanding officer of the 3rd Regiment, Natal Native Contingent (NNC), was stationed at Middle Drift. His job was primarily defensive—guarding that specific crossing point against a potential Zulu counter-invasion of Natal. Alongside him, F.B. Fynney - the Border Agent for the Lower Tugela. Fynney was a crucial figure because he was one of the few British officials who was fluent in Zulu and understood the nuances of Zulu diplomacy. The two messengers used their Christian names, Johannes and Klaas. They brought a message from King Cetshwayo that essentially said: "What have I done? I want peace. Let the fighting stop.” They were frigidly received and sent back with a reminder about the terms of the ultimatum before war began. The British were also fully aware that Cetshwayo had called a general muster of his army at oNdini, and believed the two messengers were actually spies. A day later, on the 23rd March, two other messengers arrived in Eshowe but Lieutenant Colonel Pearson ordered them to be clapped into irons — they were spies he said and could not be accorded the traditional sanctity they enjoyed at royal emissaries. Not to be denied, Cetshwayo, who by now had been joined by his main army and he was pondering where to send them. Unfortunately for Colonel Evelyn Wood, the Zulu King decided they should attack his column. After the largely inconsequential but shocking massacre at the Ntombe River we covered last episode, Colonel Wood was in a bit of a bind. He'd lost over 70 men on the 12th March. Still, he had something positive to report to Lord Chelmsford, Cetshwayo's eldest brother prince Hamu had decided to switch sides and support the British. Many of the men of his amaButho had fought the British at Isandlwana, and Wood promptly recruited these very same men into his column as irregular troops, despite the fact that their spears had been so recently washed by imperial British blood. It is hard to explain how the military works to most people, but battles are not carried out with the hot headedness of hate. So when a soldier wants to swap sides, usually they are debriefed, given a quick training update, checked to ensure they're not lunatics, and then given their new uniforms and weapons and signed on. They are very useful when it comes to intelligence gathering. Chelmsford was over the moon about Hamu's move, and believed what he called the “important event” would ‘spread doubt and distrust in Zululand'. Partly to alleviate the pressure on Pearson in Eshowe, and partly because he hoped to capitalise on Hamu's arrival, Chelmsford gave Wood carte blanche to make an attack on the Zulu. “If you are in a position to make any forward movement about the 27th March, so that the news may reach the neighbourhood of Eshowe about the 29th, I think it might have a good effect…” A relief column was on it's way from Natal and would soon cross the lower Thukela on its way to Eshowe. Perhaps some kind of victory to the north where Wood was operating would draw Zulu amabutho away. Wood was nothing if not a quick operator. A few days after receiving the order, on the 28th March, he launched a two-pronged attack on the abaQulusi stronghold of Hlobane Mountain. It was risky, not only did he have no idea of how many Zulu warriors faced him, he also had no idea about what lay in store on the summit.

In this episode, we look at how the classic black & white Universal movie monsters tap into universal fears, and how you can use that to create compelling villains in your book. This coupon code will get you 50% off the audiobook of Dragonskull: Shield of the Knight, Book #2 in the Dragonskull series, (as excellently narrated by Brad Wills) at my Payhip store: GARETH50 The coupon code is valid through February 16, 2026. So if you need a new audiobook this winter, we've got you covered! TRANSCRIPT 00:00:00 Introduction and Writing Updates Hello, everyone. Welcome to Episode 289 of The Pulp Writer Show. My name is Jonathan Moeller. Today is February 6, 2026, and today we are discussing how you can use the Universal monsters to write interesting villains. Before we get into that, we will have Coupon of the Week and an update on my current writing and publishing projects. First up is Coupon of the Week and this week's coupon code will get you 50% off the audiobook of Dragonskull: Shield of the Knight, Book #2 of my Dragonskull series (as excellently narrated by Brad Wills), at my Payhip store. And that code is GARETH50. And as always, the coupon code and the link to my Payhip store will be available in the show notes. This coupon code is valid through February 16th, 2026, so if you need a new audiobook to get you through the middle of February, we have got you covered. Now let's see where I'm at with my current writing and publishing projects. As of this recording, I am 63,000 words into Cloak of Summoning and I am almost but not quite halfway through my outline. So this is definitely going to be a long book and it's probably going to come out in the first part of March because it's long enough that it will take me a while to finish writing it and then to edit and proof it and everything else. So I'm making good progress on it. It was a very productive week, but I am still not even halfway through, so I think it's probably going to be March. I am also 5,000 words into Blade of Wraiths. That will be the fourth book of my epic fantasy Blades of Ruin series, and that will probably be in April, if all goes well. In audiobook news, Blade of Shadows (as narrated by Brad Wills) is done and it is slowly starting to roll out to the various platforms. I think as of this recording, the only place it is live right now is my Payhip store and Google Play, but hopefully by the time I record the next episode, it will be available at even more stores than that. Hollis McCarthy is working on Cloak of Titans and I think she's about halfway or two thirds of the way through recording, so we should be able to get that to you before too much longer. So that is where I'm at with my current writing and publishing and audiobook projects. 00:02:13 Main Topic: Universal Monsters, Universal Fears, and Creating Villains Now our main topic, which is the Universal monsters and the universal fears and how you can use that to create villains. One idea a writer can use to create compelling villains is to tap into some of the universal fears, and in some ways, those universal fears are embodied by the classic Universal monster movies. I mentioned before that in Halloween of 2025, I saw that a bunch of the old black and white Universal monster movies were on Prime Video. So I watched them for the first time since I was a kid, and I was pleased to see that they held up pretty well for movies that are nearly a century old, especially considering these were some of the very first movies ever made with sound and the filmmakers were kind of figuring it out as they went along. Dracula is a bit uneven because they tried to cram the stage play version of the book into a 70 minute movie, which really doesn't work, though Bela Lugosi's performance as Dracula and Edward Van Sloan as Van Helsing really carried the movie and helped define the characters in the public eye, but the others are all good and Bride of Frankenstein is legitimately a great movie, but why have these particular movies lasted so long in the public consciousness? For that matter, why do people keep coming back to new versions and new stories of Dracula and Frankenstein's Creature and all the others? Partly it's because these characters are in the public domain and you can use them without getting sued. True, but there's a lot of stuff in the public domain that doesn't see the light of day nearly as often as these classic monsters. I think it's because the classic monsters tap into the universal (small U) fears or classic archetypes of the things that people fear in real life. It's interesting to note that most of the classic Universal monsters were either originally humans who became monstrous or creations by humans that turn monstrous. Essentially, the monsters tap into archetypal fears and are exaggerated versions of villains and monsters we might actually encounter on a day-to-day basis. What do I mean? Let's expound. First up, Dracula. Count Dracula is in some ways the easiest metaphor to explain. He's an aristocratic vampire that feeds upon people and gives them nothing but evil in return. Perhaps he will pass on his own immortality to some of his victims, but it's a cursed and hellish form of immortality and any vampires that he creates are essentially his slaves, sometimes his mindless slaves. Dracula is the fear of the Evil Elite. This of course, takes many different forms in the modern era, but it is very much alive and well. The various conspiracy theories that the elite of society might be devil worshippers or engaged in sinister cults are definitely Dracula adjacent (and based on recent news reports, it indeed appears at least some of these conspiracy theories turned out to be accurate). More prosaically, "rent seeking behavior" is often characterized as vampirism. Rent seeking behavior is defined as finding ways to extract profit without adding value by manipulating the legal or regulatory environment. The landlord who raises rent by $500 a month for no reason. A software developer who reduces features while raising the subscription price or a financier who manipulates the regulations for an industry while investing in it are good examples of rent seeking behavior that is metaphorically vampiric. For that matter, it can be downright mundane. The middle manager who bullies his employees and then takes all the credit for their work is a very boring and unpleasant, but nonetheless, an all too common example of the vampire metaphor in real life. Frankenstein's monster is a much easier metaphor to explain now than it would've been before ChatGPT went mainstream. There is always a fear that we will be destroyed by the works of our own hands, especially in the last a hundred years since the creation of nuclear technology and gene editing. Probably most famous examples of that in science fiction are The Terminator and The Matrix movies series. However, these days the metaphor for Frankenstein's monster is almost ridiculously easy. We have generative AI to fulfill the metaphor of Frankenstein's monster for us. Karl Marx famously said that history repeats twice, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce. Nuclear weapons as a metaphor for Frankenstein's monster was a tragedy but generative AI is a farce. The tech bros sold it as this omniscient mind that could solve all problems and eliminate all jobs. What we've actually gotten is an imbecilic chatbot that makes a lot of mistakes, can't remember anything, can't actually do anything right, inflicts widespread damage to the economy, drives up electricity costs, and makes existing products like Windows 11 and Google search much worse. It's like as if Frankenstein's monster was really, really stupid and wanted you to add glue to your pizza to keep the cheese from sliding off. The Wolf Man, of course, is a metaphor for the potentially bestial nature of man. We all know, of course, or are eventually forced to learn that human beings have a dark side that can come out in times of anger and stress. Civilization is sometimes a thin veneer over the animalistic side of humans. Sometimes the veneer grows even thinner and the dark side comes raging out in riots and wars and mass slaughter. For Larry Talbot, the original Wolf Man in the movie, his situation is even more terrifying. He's a rational man who believes in science and psychology and doesn't believe in things like werewolves. Yet when he is bitten, he nonetheless loses control and transforms into the Wolf Man. He doesn't want to transform and attack people, but he has lost control of himself to the werewolf curse, and so he does. In a sense, all humans are werewolves in that we have a monstrous side that can come out under the right or the wrong conditions. The worst of us embrace that fact, just as in medieval legends, sometimes people would make pacts with the devil to become werewolves. The Invisible Man was originally a science fiction story, which means that the Invisible Man represents a new fear created by science. "Transhumanism" is an idea that eventually humans will merge with machines and evolve and become something new. Naturally, many people think this is a bad idea, and so a new idea has emerged: "posthumans" or humans that have been so modified by science that they are no longer recognizably human. So far, this has remained mostly science fiction, but you can see the glimmers of it beginning in biology and medical science. There's a reason performance enhancing drugs are banned in most sports. Genetic engineering opens up the possibility that corporations could create their own custom humans, essentially their own posthumans. The possibilities for abuse in such situations are sadly endless. So the Invisible Man, like Frankenstein's Creature, taps into the fear of science or more accurately the fear of what horrors science might create. On the surface, the Creature from the Black Lagoon is a monster story about a creature that carries off a pretty girl. I think it taps into a deeper fear, however, namely that the world is older and stranger and more alien and incomprehensible than we can possibly know. Like hardcore creationists say that the earth is 6,000 years old or so, and the traditional scientific view is that the earth has been around for four and a half billion years or so, and both groups have detailed charts explaining why their theories are correct, but what if they're both wrong? Oceanographers say that we don't fully understand the oceans. And a common theory among UFO people is that UFOs emerged from hidden bases at the bottom of the ocean, inaccessible by any human. There are other theories that there have been entire civilizations such as Atlantis that have vanished without a trace and were more advanced than our own, or that all of human civilization is a cycle that constantly destroys itself and restarts without a memory of its previous failures, or that aliens have influenced and controlled human history or that aliens created the earth and this is all some sort of elaborate science experiment. Of course, all these theories are likely bunk. Probably. I think it is true to say that not only is the world stranger than we know, it is stranger than the human mind is actually capable of comprehending. And depending on how far that goes, that could be a terrifying thought. So the Creature from the Black Lagoon, the idea that some race of fishmen lurks beneath the waves that we don't know about, taps into that fear. Like The Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Mummy on the surface is another story about the monster who wants the girl since Imhotep waits 3,000 years for his love to be reincarnated. But I think this taps into a deeper fear, namely that we can't escape history, that no matter what we do or how hard we try, history will catch up to us (whether our own personal history or national history). Political philosopher Francis Fukuyama famously wrote a book called The End of History and The Last Man in 1992, arguing that with the collapse of Communism, liberal democracy was the final form of government achieved by mankind and it would have no serious competitors in the future. This was a nice dream, but I think it's fair to say that the last 34 years since 1992 have proven that thesis profoundly wrong. History is definitely not over and in every domestic or international political crisis of the last 34 years, you can trace its roots back for decades or even centuries. It took 3,000 years for the dead hand of Imhotep to affect the present, but it usually doesn't take nearly that long for history to have negative effects in the present world. The Phantom of the Opera is considered one of the Universal monsters, but I don't think he really taps into a deeper fear, maybe just to be wary of a creepy guy who lives in a theater basement and is unhealthily obsessed with the leading actress. Honestly, that just seems like good common sense. Maybe poor Christine Daae just needs some pepper spray or a good solid shotgun. In conclusion, I think each of these Universal monsters remains popular because they tap into a deeper, more profound fear. So if you're a writer looking to create a memorable villain, you could do worse than to follow those universal fears. You don't even explicitly have to write horror, science fiction, or fantasy to do it. In a mystery novel, you could have a Dracula type villain in the form of a slumlord who traps his tenants with restrictive lease agreements to bleed them dry financially or an Invisible Man villain in the form of a scientist who is illegally injecting college athletes with an experimental drug without their knowledge. The Wolf Man appears quite often in detective and thriller fiction as a serial killer or some other kind of violent criminal. Naturally we cannot escape history, so the Mummy can appear as a conflict that had its roots in events that happened decades ago. Of course, the range for universal fear villains in science fiction and fantasy is much greater. Then you don't even have to be metaphorical. So hopefully this look at the Universal monsters and the universal fears they tap into will give you some good tips and ideas for writing villains in your book. So that's it for this week. Thank you for listening to The Pulp Writer Show. I hope you found the show useful. A reminder that you can listen to all the back episodes in https://thepulpwritershow.com. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review on your podcasting platform of choice. Stay safe and stay healthy, and we'll see you all next week.  

What if charitable giving opens you up to a new world of purpose and meaning you didn't know you had access to? In this episode, John Bromley shares how he helps donors navigate and participate comfortably in the giving world as a "charity banker." John is the founder and CEO of Charitable Impact, Canada's first fully online donor-advised fund, which has facilitated over $1.5 billion in charitable donations since its inception in 2011. Growing up in a family deeply engaged in philanthropy, John was inspired by his father, renowned charity lawyer Blake Bromley, to pursue a career in creating impact. He began in corporate finance with PwC and RBC Capital Markets before transitioning to the charitable sector in his mid-to-late twenties, where he recognized the need for a simpler, more effective giving platform. John's innovative approach has earned him recognition as a TEDx speaker, a "Forty Under 40" honoree, and recipient of the CEO Community Leadership Award. Committed to cultivating generosity, John continues to empower individuals and organizations to make meaningful change through philanthropy. Beyond his professional achievements, he is a dedicated community leader, soccer coach, and proud father of two. John reveals the relationship that transformed him: his father Blake Bromley, one of the global pioneers of charity law and finance in Canada, who taught John everything he needed to know to become a charity banker not through formal education but through osmosis during car rides to sports games every weekend, where John thought he was tuning out boring workplace talk but was actually absorbing years of expertise that no textbook could teach, leading to John's realization in his late twenties that his dad possessed unique knowledge that became the foundation for Charitable Impact and John's ability to help donors go from thinking about $200,000 gifts to creating private foundations with $15 million.   [00:05:00] I'm a Charity Banker Acts like private banker to donors (individuals or organizations) Gives access to knowledge about how to go about giving Brings tools and team members to help Founder and CEO of Charitable Impact (donor-advised fund) [00:05:40] How a Charity Bank Works People give money in, get tax receipt right away Can determine how to use those charity dollars to create impact they want Role is entrepreneur who founded it, gives vision and mission There because people with great hearts, minds, deep wallets never had anywhere to go for neutral advice [00:06:40] Inspired by Seeing Others Become Inspired Charitable giving opens people to new world of purpose and meaning About investing time, talent, and money into things you care most about Having impact with your time, talent, and money Coached soccer for years, grateful for opportunity to do it [00:07:40] Getting More Out Than You Put In Really good donors get more out of it than they think they put in First time doing anything, you're not gonna be whiz kid Takes time and focus People who learn to have joy and gratitude become best donors [00:10:40] Making Intentional Giving Part of Everyday Life Vision at Charitable Impact: make intentional giving part of everyday life Quantum of money isn't as important Type of cause they choose isn't important to him Like banker shouldn't care what specific stocks someone chooses [00:11:40] From Sporadic to Intentional Giver Inspired when someone goes from not being giver to proactive giver From only reacting to being asked for money to building giving into their life Whether using time, talents, and/or money Like fitness banker trying to get people off couch [00:14:00] Be Open to Help Blessed to have had many encounters with people who had material impact If talking to younger self: you've gotta be open to help and feedback Don't have to accept it all, but have to listen to it One person stands out head and shoulders above everyone else [00:14:40] Didn't Recognize Until Almost 30 Key mentor in his life was his father Didn't recognize dad played that role until almost 30 Not just because dad was good dad who loved and nurtured him Where do you learn what you need to know to become a charity banker? [00:15:20] One of Two Serious Pioneers Father was one of arguably two serious pioneers of charity law and finance in Canada In charity nerd community (very small), dad is known globally He's one of global experts in the space Here he is, just my dad [00:16:00] The Career Change Conversation Graduated university, started in corporate finance and investment banking Left after several years, not being culture fit Started interacting with dad about changing career mid-to-late twenties Accidental pathway led to realizing dad knows stuff you can't read online [00:17:20] Learning from Osmosis Played ton of sports growing up, every weekend dad took him to games Dad yapping about charity stuff going on in his workplace John thinking: in one ear out the next, boring Now realise: how much did I learn from osmosis? [00:19:20] The $15 Million Superpower Dad's superpower: donor comes in thinking $50-100K, maybe $200K Two months later, leaving with private foundation with $15 million in it Rooted in relationship development and expertise John has had few scenarios where this happened [00:20:20] Seeing Beyond the Barriers People come in wanting to make giving part of how family does things Starting with what sounds like relatively low money Shifting how they think about it, making large structured contributions Growth mindset in philanthropic advisory space [00:22:40] Increasing Access to Participation Mission: increase access to participation in and benefit people feel from giving Not about going from 200K to 15 million About going from never giving to starting to give $100 a month It's the action to participate and start that matters [00:24:00] Like Building a Bank Banks might make more money off high net worth clients But banks don't exist without tens of thousands of small depositors Real interest is helping people get in and stay in game Regardless of money or causes they want to create impact for [00:26:00] The Workshop That Changed Everything Kevin started family foundation in 2008 to avoid big tax bill Friend Jeff Ziegler told him to start foundation and get 501(c)(3) status Went to workshop in 2009, heard foundation owners talking about what they're doing Wanted to start experiencing that [00:26:40] Jamaica Orphanage and Family Sponsorship Kevin's foundation supports Jamaica orphanage, visits every year Gives each of four older kids access to foundation debit card They choose family through food bank or church to sponsor Buy what kids want and need, groceries [00:27:20] I Wish This Was My Job Oldest daughter after first year: "I wish this was my job all the time" So incredibly rewarding for them Take kids to Jamaica orphanage, they experience what those kids are like On bus ride back, kids saying "we got it really good, Dad" [00:28:20] Three Beliefs at Charitable Impact Everyone has something in world they want to create change for Everyone has something to give toward creating that change (time, talent, treasure) When you give, you get something in return This third belief is under-focused on [00:29:40] Selfish Reasons to Give How do you learn you have it well if not exposed to these things? Creates opportunity, learning, meaning, and purpose in your own life It's not just about benefiting community No one focuses on this, but they should [00:30:00] You Don't Stay in Jobs You Don't Like Do you live in a house you hate? Probably not Eat foods you hate? Play sports you don't like? Of course not - you do things you enjoy Important to see philanthropy that way [00:32:40] Intention vs. Action Intention is critically important, big fan of intention But it's action, doing stuff in real world that creates change Can't just think about it Philanthropy is like exercise or eating well - you have to actually do it [00:33:20] You Don't Have to Be Perfect Don't have to work out hours every day Can be incremental, small part of who you are But you actually have to do something When you do, you get something in return [00:33:40] The One Thing They Don't Regret Seasoned philanthropists, particularly as they get older Never heard anyone regret spending time, talent, money on things they care about Partly because of how much they get out of it By so doing [00:34:20] Being in Control of Where Money Goes Can choose instead of paying it all in taxes Give to organization or something you believe in and want to support Take proactive step and give it there instead We can totally choose that [00:36:00] Dad, Thank You and I Love You John gives shout out to his father Thanks him for everything Says "I love you" Beautiful moment honoring his dad   KEY QUOTES "Charitable giving opens them up to this new world of purpose and meaning. It's really about investing your time and talent and money into the things that you care most about, that you love." - John Bromley "Really good donors get more out of it than they think they put in. The people who learn to have joy and gratitude from giving become the best donors." - John Bromley "When you give, you get something in return. It's about creating opportunity and learning and meaning and purpose in your own life." - John Bromley CONNECT WITH JOHN BROMLEY 

LIbby Page and Ellie Levenson join Joe Haddow for a natter about their new novels - and - go head to head in a War Of The Words!Libby's new novel - 'This Book Made Me Think Of You' - is a heartwarming, uplifting story about grief and love (and a love letter to books, reading and bookshops!)Ellie's new novel - 'Room 706' - is a tense page-turner about a woman trapped in a hotel room with her loverBoth authors share their inspirations for their new books, give us some good book recommendations - and of course - take part in The Book Off!THE BOOK OFF'Conversations On Love' by Natasha LunnVS'The Wild Robot' by Peter BrownAnd here's a little more on our featured authors' books:This Book Made Me Think Of You - Libby Page When Tilly Nightingale receives a call telling her there's a birthday gift from her husband waiting for her at her local bookshop, it couldn't come as more of a shock. Partly, because she can't remember the last time she read a book for pleasure. Mainly, because Joe died five months ago…The gift is simple – twelve carefully chosen books from Joe, one for each month, to help her turn the page on her first year without him.And so begins a reading-inspired journey that takes Tilly around the world; from bustling sidewalks in New York and the tree-lined avenues of Paris to the tranquil Tuscan countryside and the white sands of Bali. With the help of the bookshop owner, Alfie, Tilly starts to discover who she is now, after Joe.But can Tilly's year of books show her how to love again? Room 706 - Ellie Levenson Kate stretches her legs and turns on the TV while James washes away the traces of their morning. She watches in horror at the unfolding news: the hotel they are staying in has been taken under siege.She should be making her way home, working on appearing normal, getting ready to re-enter family life with her loving husband Vic and their two adored children. Instead, she is trapped somewhere she shouldn't be, with a man she definitely doesn't love.How will she begin to tell Vic what she is doing here? If her body is found, will it give up the secret of what she's been up to? She's been so careful hiding the evidence of her affair: write nothing down, leave no trace. Will he begin to understand why?For now, Kate can only hide, take a deep breath, and reflect on the series of choices she's made that have brought her to this moment.What will her marriage and her life look like, if she makes it out? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Support the show to get full episodes, full archive, and join the Discord community. The Transmitter is an online publication that aims to deliver useful information, insights and tools to build bridges across neuroscience and advance research. Visit thetransmitter.org to explore the latest neuroscience news and perspectives, written by journalists and scientists. Read more about our partnership. Sign up for Brain Inspired email alerts to be notified every time a new Brain Inspired episode is released. To explore more neuroscience news and perspectives, visit thetransmitter.org. Michael Shadlen is a professor of neuroscience in the Department of Neuroscience at Columbia University, where he's the principle investigator of the Shadlen Lab. If you study the neural basis of decision making, you already know Shadlen's extensive research, because you are constantly referring to it if you're not already in his lab doing the work. The name Shadlen adorns many many papers relating the behavior and neural activity during decision-making to mathematical models in the drift diffusion family of models. That's not the only work he is known for, As you may have gleaned from those little intro clips, Michael is with me today to discuss his account of what makes a thought conscious, in the hopes to inspire neuroscience research to eventually tackle the hard problem of consciousness - why and how we have subjective experience. But Mike's account isn't an account of just consciousness. It's an account of nonconscious thought and conscious thought, and how thoughts go from non-conscious to conscious His account is inspired by multiple sources and lines of reasoning. Partly, Shadlen refers to philosophical accounts of cognition by people like Marleau-Ponty and James Gibson, appreciating the embodied and ecological aspects of cognition. And much of his account derives from his own decades of research studying the neural basis of decision-making mostly using perceptual choice tasks where animals make eye movements to report their decisions. So we discuss some of that, including what we continue to learn about neurobiological, neurophysiological, and anatomical details of brains, and the possibility of AI consciousness, given Shadlen's account. Shadlen Lab. Twitter: @shadlen. Decision Making and Consciousness (Chapter in upcoming Principles of Neuroscience textbook). Talk: Decision Making as a Model of thought Read the transcript. 0:00 - Intro 7:05 - Overview of Mike's account 9:10 - Thought as interrogation 21:03 - Neurons and thoughts 27:05 - Why so many neurons? 36:21 - Evolution of Mike's thinking 39:48 - Marleau-Ponty, cognition, and meaning 44:54 - Naturalistic tasks 51:11 - Consciousness 58:01 - Martin Buber and relational consciousness 1:00:18 - Social and conscious phenomena correlated 1:04:17 - Function vs. nature of consciousness 1:06:05 - Did language evolve because of consciousness? 1:11:11 - Weak phenomenology and long-range feedback 1:22:02 - How does interrogation work in the brain? 1:26:18 - AI consciousness 1:35:49 - The hard problem of consciousness 1:39:34 - Meditation and flow

Start of many morning freezes, Cold day ahead • Morning commute: dry local roads with chilly temperatures in the 20s and 30s. • Widespread freeze this morning through 8 - 9 am. • Sunny skies today. • Highs will only reach the upper 40s to near 50s degrees in Jacksonville. • Widespread frost/freeze tonight, including neighborhoods just west of the Intracoastal in Duval county. o 20s inland and lower to mid 30s at the coast. o Cover sensitive plants even at the Intracoastal. • Highs only in the 50s tomorrow with partly sunny skies. • Inland freezes continue each day this week and into the weekend. TODAY: Widespread morning freeze. Sunny and cold. High: 49 TONIGHT: Mostly clear. LOW: 25 WEDNESDAY: Widespread frost and freeze. Partly cloudy and chilly. 25/54 THURSDAY: AM Inland frost/freeze. Partly cloudy. 29/54 FRIDAY: Inland AM freeze. Partly cloudy to mostly cloudy. 35/61 SATURDAY: Inland AM freeze. Mostly cloudy. Some light rain at times. 32/47 SUNDAY: Widespread AM freeze. Mostly sunny and breezy. Cold. 24/44 (record: 24 - 1977) MONDAY: Widespread AM frost/freeze. Mostly sunny and chilly. 22/50 (record: 23 - 1979)

Could live selling be the next big opportunity for indie authors? Adam Beswick shares how organic marketing, live streaming, and direct sales are transforming his author career—and how other writers can do the same. In the intro, book marketing principles [Self-Publishing with ALLi]; Interview with Tobi Lutke, the CEO and co-founder of Shopify [David Senra]; The Writer's Mind Survey; Bones of the Deep – J.F. Penn; Alliance of Independent Authors Indie Author Lab. Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with writing software, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 15% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Adam Beswick is a bestselling fantasy author and an expert in TikTok marketing for authors, as well as a former NHS mental health nurse. Adam went full-time as an indie author in 2023 and now runs AP Beswick Publications. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How Adam scaled from garden office to warehouse, with his wife leaving her engineering career to join the business Why organic marketing (free video content) beats paid ads for testing what resonates with readers The power of live selling: earning £3,500 in one Christmas live stream through TikTok shop Mystery book bags: a gamified approach to selling that keeps customers coming back Building an email list of actual buyers through direct sales versus relying on platform algorithms Why human connection matters more than ever in the age of AI-generated content You can find Adam at APBeswickPublications.com and on TikTok as @a.p_beswick_publications. Transcript of interview with Adam Beswick Jo: Adam Beswick is a bestselling fantasy author and an expert in TikTok marketing for authors, as well as a former NHS mental health nurse. Adam went full-time as an indie author in 2023 and now runs AP Beswick Publications. Welcome back to the show, Adam. Adam: Hi there, and thank you for having me back. Jo: Oh, I'm super excited to talk to you today. Now, you were last on the show in May 2024, so just under two years, and you had gone full-time as an author the year before that. So just tell us— What's changed for you in the last couple of years? What does your author business look like now? Adam: That is terrifying to hear that it was that long ago, because it genuinely feels like it was a couple of months ago. Things have certainly been turbocharged since we last spoke. Last time we spoke I had a big focus on going into direct sales, and I think if I recall correctly, we were just about to release a book by Alexis Brooke, which was the first book in a series that we had worked with another author on, which was the first time we were doing that. Since then, we now have six authors on our books, with a range of full agreements or print-only deals. With that focus of direct selling, we have expanded our TikTok shop. In 2024, I stepped back from TikTok shop just because of constraints around my own time. We took TikTok shop seriously again in 2025 and scaled up to a six-figure revenue stream throughout 2025, effectively starting from scratch. That means we have had to go from having an office pod in the garden, to my wife now has left her career as a structural engineer to join the business because there was too much for me to manage. We went from this small office space, to now we have the biggest office space in our office block because we organise our own print runs and do all our distribution worldwide from what we call “AP HQ.” Jo: And you don't print books, but you have a warehouse. Adam: Yes, we have a warehouse. We work with different printers to order books in. We print quite large scale—well, large scale to me—volumes of books. Then we have them ordered to here, and then we will sign them all and distribute everything from here. Jo: Sarah, your wife, being a structural engineer—it seems like she would be a real help in organising a business of warehousing and all of that. Has that been great [working with your wife]? Because I worked with my husband for a while and we decided to stop doing that. Adam: Well, we're still married, so I'm taking that as a win! And funnily enough, we don't actually fall out so much at work. When we do, it's more about me being quite chaotic with how I work, but also I can at times be quite inflexible about how I want things to be done. But what Sarah's fantastic at is the organisation, the analytics. She runs all the logistical side of things. When we moved into the bigger office space, she insisted on us having different offices. She's literally shoved me on the other side of the building. So I'm out the way—I can just come in and write, come and do my bit to sign the books, and then she can just get on with organising the orders and getting those packed and sent out to readers. She manages all the tracking, the customs—all the stuff that would really bog me down. I wouldn't say she necessarily enjoys it when she's getting some cranky emails from people whose books might have gone missing or have been held up at customs, but she's really good at that side. She's really helped bring systems in place to make sure the fulfilment side is as smooth as possible. Jo: I think this is so important, and I want everyone to hear you on this. Because at heart, you are the creative, you are a writer, and sure you are building this business, but I feel like one of the biggest mistakes that creative-first authors make is not getting somebody else to help them. It doesn't have to be a spouse, right? It can also be another professional person. Sacha Black's got various people working for her. I think you just can't do it alone, right? Adam: Absolutely not. I would have drowned long before now. When Sarah joined the team, I was at a position where I'd said to her, “Look, I need to look at bringing someone in because I'm drowning.” It was only then she took a look at where her career was, and she'd done everything she wanted to do. She was a senior engineer. She'd completed all the big projects. I mean, this is a woman who's designed football stands across the UK and some of the biggest barn conversions and school conversions and things like that. She'd done everything professionally that she'd wanted to and was perhaps losing that passion that she once had. So she said she was interested, and we said, “Look, why don't you come and spend a bit of time working with me within the business, see whether it works for you, see if we can find an area that works for you—not you working for the business, the business working for you—that we maintain that work-life balance.” And then if it didn't work, we were in a position where we could set her up to start working for herself as an engineer again, but under her own terms. Then we just went from strength to strength. We made it through the first year. I think we made it through the first year without any arguments, and she's now been full-time in the business for two years. Jo: I think that's great. Really good to hear that. Because when I met you, probably in Seville I think it was, I was like, “You are going to hit some difficulty,” because I could see that if you were going to scale as fast as you were aiming to— There are problems of scale, right? There's a reason why lots of us don't want a bloomin' warehouse. Adam: Yes, absolutely. I think it's twofold. I am an author at heart—that's my passion—but I'm also a businessman and a creative from a marketing point of view. I always see writing as the passion. The business side and the creating of content—that's the work. So I never see writing as work. When I was a nurse, I was the nurse that was always put on the wards where no one else wanted to work because that's where I thrived. I thrive in the chaos. Put me with people who had really challenging behaviour or were really unwell and needed that really intense support, displayed quite often problematic behaviours, and I would thrive in those environments because I'd always like to prove that you can get the best out of anyone. I very much work in that manner now. The more chaotic, the more pressure-charged the situation is, the better I thrive in that. If I was just sat writing a book and that was it, I'd probably get less done because I'd get bored and I wouldn't feel like I was challenging myself. As you said, the flip side of that is that risk of burnout is very, very real, and I have come very, very close. But as a former mental health nurse, I am very good at spotting my own signs of when I'm not taking good care of myself. And if I don't, Sarah sure as hell does. Jo: I think that's great. Really good to hear. Okay, so you talked there about creating the content as work, and— You have driven your success, I would say, almost entirely with TikTok. Would that be right? Adam: Well, no, I'd come back and touch on that just to say it isn't just TikTok. I would say definitely organic marketing, but not just TikTok. I'm always quick to pivot if something isn't working or if there's a dip in sales. I'm always looking at how we can—not necessarily keep growing—but it's about sustaining what you've built so that we can carry on doing this. If the business stops earning money, I can't keep doing what I love doing, and me and my wife can't keep supporting our family with a stable income, which is what we have now. I would say TikTok is what started it all, but I did the same as having all my books on Amazon, which is why I switched to doing wide and direct sales: I didn't want all my eggs in one basket. I was always exploring what platforms I can use to best utilise organic marketing, to the point where my author TikTok channel is probably my third lowest avenue for directing traffic to my store at the moment. I have a separate channel for my TikTok shop, which generates great traffic, but that's a separate thing because I treat my TikTok shop as a separate audience. That only goes out to a UK audience, whereas my main TikTok channel goes out to a worldwide audience. Jo: Okay. So we are going to get into TikTok, and I do want to talk about that, but you said TikTok Shop UK and— Then you mentioned organic marketing. What do you mean by that? Adam: When I say organic marketing, I mean marketing your books in a way that is not a detriment to your bank balance. To break that down further: you can be paying for, say for example, you set up a Facebook ad and you are paying five pounds a day just for a testing phase for an ad that potentially isn't going to work. You potentially have to run 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ads at five pounds a day to find one ad that works, that will make your book profitable. There's a lot of testing, a lot of money that goes into that. With organic marketing, it's using video marketing or slideshows or carousels on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook—wherever you want to put it—to find the content that does resonate with your readers, that generates sales, and it doesn't cost you anything. I can create a video on TikTok, put it out there, and it reaches three, four hundred people. That hasn't cost me any money at all. Those three, four hundred people have seen my content. That's not TikTok's job for that to generate sales. That's my job to convert those views into sales. If it doesn't, I just need to look at the content and say, “Well, that hasn't hit my audience, or if it has, it hasn't resonated. What do I need to do with my content to make it resonate and then transition into sales?” Once you find something that works, it's just a case of rinse and repeat. Keep tweaking it, keep changing or using variants of that content that's working to generate sales. If you manage to do that consistently, you've already got content that you know works. So when you've built up consistent sales and you are perhaps earning a few thousand pounds a month—it could be five figures a month—you've then got a pool of money that you've generated. You can use that then to invest into paid ads, using the content you've already created organically and tested organically for what your audience is going to interact with. Jo: Okay. I think because I'm old school from the old days, we would've called that content marketing. But I feel like the difference of what you are doing and what TikTok—I think the type of behaviour TikTok has driven is the actual sales, the conversion into sales. So for example, this interview, right? My podcast is content marketing. It puts our words out in the world and some people find us, and some people buy stuff from us. So it's content marketing, but it's not the way you are analysing content that actually drives sales. Based on that content, there's no way of tracking any sales that come from this interview. We are just never going to know. I think that's the big difference between what you are doing with content versus what I and many other, I guess, older creators have done, which is— We put stuff out there for free, hope that some people might find us, and some of those people might buy. It's quite different. Adam: I would still argue that it is organic marketing, because you've got a podcast that people don't have to pay to listen to, that they get enjoyment from, and the byproduct of that is you generate some income passively through that. If you think of your podcast as one product and your video content is the same—these social media platforms—you don't just post your podcast on one platform. You will utilise as many platforms as you can, unless you have a brand agreement where a platform is paying you to solely use their platform because you or yourself are the driver for the audience there. I would say a podcast is a form of organic marketing. I could start a podcast about video marketing. I could start a podcast about reading. The idea being you build up an audience and then when you drop in those releases, that audience then goes and buys that product. For example, if you've got a self-help book coming out, if you drop that into your podcast, chances are you're going to get a lot more sales from your audience that are here to listen to you as the inspirational storyteller that you are from a business point of view than what you would if you announced that you had a new crime novel coming out or a horror story you've written. Your audience within here is generally an author audience who are looking to refine their craft—whether that be the writing or the selling of the books or living the dream of being a full-time author. I think it's more a terminology thing. Jo: Well, let's talk about why I wanted to talk to you. A friend of ours told me that you are doing really well with live sales. This was just before Christmas, I think. And I was like, “Live sales? What does that even mean?” Then I saw that Kim Kardashian was doing live sales on TikTok and did this “Kim's Must Have” thing, and Snoop Dogg was there, and it was this massive event where they were selling. I was like, “Oh, it's like TV sales—the TV sales channel where you show things and then people buy immediately.” And I was like, “Wait, is Adam like the Kim Kardashian of the indie author?” So tell us about this live sale thing. Adam: Well, I've not got that far to say that I have the Kim Kardashian status! What it is, is that I'm passionate about learning, but also sharing what's working for me so that other authors can succeed—without what I'm sharing being stuck behind a paywall. It is a big gripe of mine that you get all these courses and all these things you can do and everything has to be behind a paywall. If I've got the time, I'll just share. Hence why we were in Vegas doing the presentations for Indie Author Nation, which I think had you been in my talk, Jo, you would've heard me talking about the live selling. Jo: Oh, I missed it. I'll have to get the replay. Adam: I only covered a short section of it, but what I actually said within that talk is, for me, live selling is going to be the next big thing. If you are not live selling your books at the moment, and you are not paying attention to it, start paying attention to it. I started paying attention about six months ago, and I have seen constant growth to a point where I've had to post less content because doing one live stream a week was making more money than me posting content and burning myself out every single day for the TikTok shop. I did a live stream at the beginning of Christmas, for example. A bit of prep work went into it. We had a whole Christmas set, and within that one live stream we generated three and a half thousand pounds of organic book sales. Jo: Wow. Adam: Obviously that isn't something that happened overnight. That took me doing a regular Friday stream from September all the way through to December to build up to that moment. In fact, I think that was Black Friday, sorry, where we did that. But what I looked at was, “Right, I haven't got the bandwidth because of all the plates I was spinning to go live five days a week. However, I can commit to a Friday morning.” I can commit to a Friday morning because that is the day when Sarah isn't in the office, and it's my day to pack the orders. So I've already got the orders to pack, so I thought I'll go live whilst I'm packing the orders and just hang out and chat. I slowly started to find that on average I was earning between three to four hundred pounds doing that, packing orders that I already had to pack. I've just found a way to monetise it and engage with a new audience whilst doing that. The thing that's key is it is a new audience. You have people who like to consume their content through short-form content or long-form content. Then you have people who like to consume content with human interaction on a live, and it's a completely different ballgame. What TikTok is enabling us to do—on other platforms I am looking at other platforms for live selling—you can engage with an audience, but because on TikTok you can upload your products, people can buy the products direct whilst you are live on that platform. For that, you will pay a small fee to TikTok, which is absolutely worth it. That's part of the reason we've been able to scale to having a six-figure business within TikTok shop itself as one revenue stream. Jo: Okay. So a few things. You mentioned there the integration with TikTok shop. As I've said many times, I'm not on TikTok—I am on Instagram—and on Instagram you can incorporate your Meta catalogue to Shopify. Do you think the same principle applies to Instagram or YouTube as well? I think YouTube has an integration with Shopify. Do you think the same thing would work that way? Adam: I think it's possible. Yes, absolutely. As long as people can click and buy that product from whatever content they are watching—but usually what it will have to do is redirect them to your store, and you've still got all the conversion metrics that have to kick in. They have to be happy with the shipping, they have to be happy with the product description and stuff like that. With TikTok shop, it's very much a one-stop shop. People click on the product, they can still be watching the video, click to buy something, and not leave the stream. Jo: So the stream's on, and then let's say you are packing one of your books— Does that product link just pop up and then people can buy that book as you are packing it? Adam: So we've got lots and lots of products on our store now. I always have a product link that has all our products listed, and I always keep all of the bundles towards the top because they generate more income than a single book sale. What will happen is I can showcase a book, I'll tap the screen to show what product it is that I'm packing, and then I'll just talk about it. If people want it, they just click that product link and they can buy it straight away. What people get a lot of enjoyment from—which I never expected in a million years—is watching people pack their order there and then. As an author, we're not just selling a generic product. We're selling a book that we have written, that we have put our heart and soul into. People love that. It's a way of letting them into a bit of you, giving them a bit of information, talking to them, showing them how human you are. If you're on that live stream being an absolute arse and not very nice, people aren't going to buy your books. But if you're being welcoming, you're chatting, you're talking to everyone, you're interacting, you're showcasing books they probably will. What we do is if someone orders on the live stream, we throw some extra stuff in, so they don't just get the books, they'll get some art prints included, they'll get some bookmarks thrown in, and we've got merch that we'll throw in as a little thank you. Now it's all stuff that is low cost to us, because actually we're acquiring a customer in that moment. I've got people who come onto every single Friday live stream that I do now. They have bought every single product in our catalogue and they are harassing me for when the next release is out because they want more, before they even know what that is. They want it because it's being produced by us—because of our brand. With the lives, what I found is the branding has become really important. We're at a stage where we're being asked—because I'm quite well known for wearing beanie hats on live streams or video content—people are like, “When are you going to release some beanie hats?” Now and again, Sarah will drop some AP branded merch. It'll be beer coasters with the AP logo on, or a tote bag with the AP logo on. It's not stuff that we sell at this stage—we give them away. The more money people spend, the more stuff we put in. And people are like, “No, no, you need to add these to the store because we want to buy them.” The brand itself is growing, not just the book sales. It's becoming better known. We've got Pacificon in April, and there's so many people on that live stream that have bought tickets to meet us in person at this conference in April, which is amazing. There's so much going on. With TikTok shop, it only works in the country where you are based, so it only goes out to a UK audience, which is why I keep it separate from my main channel. That means we're tapping into a completely new audience, because up until last year, I'd always targeted America—that's where my biggest readership was. Jo: Wow. There's so much to this. Okay. First of all, most people are not going to have their own warehouse. Most people are not going to be packing live. So for authors who are selling on, let's just say Amazon, can live sales still work for them? Could they still go live at a regular time every week and talk about a book and see if that drives sales, even if it's at Amazon? Adam: Yes, absolutely. I would test that because ultimately you're creating a brand, you're putting yourself out there, and you're consistently showing up. You can have people that have never heard of you just stumble across your live and think, “What are they doing there?” They're a bit curious, so they might ask some questions, they might not. They might see some other interactions. There's a million and one things you can do on that live to generate conversation. I've done it where I've had 150 books to sign, so I've just lined up the books, stood in front of the camera, switched the camera on while I'm signing the books, and just chatted away to people without any product links. People will come back and be like, “Oh, I've just been to your store and bought through your series,” and stuff like that. So absolutely that can work. The key is putting in the work and setting it up. I started out by getting five copies of one book, signing them, and selling them on TikTok shop. I sold them in a day, and then that built up to effectively what we have now. That got my eyes open for direct selling. When I was working with BookVault and they were integrated with my store, orders came to me, but then they went to BookVault—they printed and distributed. Then we got to a point scaling-wise where we thought, “If we want to take this to the next level, we need to take on distribution ourselves,” because the profit lines are better, the margins are bigger. That's why we started doing it ourselves, but only once we'd had a proven track record of sales spanning 18 months to two years and had the confidence. It was actually with myself and Sacha that we set up at the same time and egged each other on. I think I was just a tiny bit ahead of her with setting up a warehouse. And then as you've seen, Sacha's gone from strength to strength. It doesn't come without its trigger warnings in the sense of it isn't an easy thing to do. I think you have to have a certain skill set for live selling. You have to have a certain mindset for the physicality that comes with it. When we've had a delivery of two and a half thousand books and we've got to bring them up to the first floor where the office is—I don't have a massive team of people. It's myself and Sarah, and every now and again we get my dad in to help us because he's retired now. We'll give him a bottle of wine as a thank you. Jo: You need to give him some more wine, I think! Adam: Yes! But you've gotta be able to roll your sleeves up and do the work. I think if you've got the work ethic and that drive to succeed, then absolutely anyone can do it. There's nothing special about my books in that sense. I've got a group called Novel Gains where I've actually started a monthly challenge yesterday, and we've got nearly two and a half thousand people in the group now. The group has never been more active because it's really energised and charged. People have seen the success stories, and people are going on lives who never thought it would work for them. Lee Mountford put a post up yesterday on the first day of this challenge just to say, “Look, a year ago I was where you were when Adam did the last challenge. I thought I can't do organic marketing, I can't get myself on camera.” Organic marketing and live selling is now equating to 50% of his income. Jo: And he doesn't have a warehouse. Adam: Well, he scaled up to it now, so he's got two lockups because he scaled up. He started off small, then he thought, “Right, I'm going to go for it.” He ordered a print run of a few of his books—I think 300 copies of three books. Bundled them up, sold them out within a few months. Then he's just scaled from there because he's seen by creating the content, by doing the lives, that it's just creating a revenue stream that he wasn't tapping into. Last January when we did the challenge, he was really engaged throughout the process. He was really analytical with the results he was getting. But he didn't stop after 30 days when that challenge finished. He went away behind the scenes for the next 11 months and has continued to grow. He is absolutely thriving now. Him and his wife—a husband and wife team—his wife is also an author, and they've now added her spicy books to their TikTok shop. They're just selling straight away because he's built up the audience. He's built up that connection. Jo: I think that's great. And I love hearing this because I built my business on what I've called content marketing—you're calling it organic marketing. So I think it's really good to know that it's still possible; it's just a different kind. Now I just wanna get some specifics. One— Where can people find your Novel Gains stuff? Adam: So Novel Gains is an online community on Facebook. As I said, there's no website, there's no fancy website, there's no paid course or anything. It is just people holding themselves accountable and listening to my ramblings every now and again when I try and share pills of wisdom to try and motivate and inspire. I also ask other successful authors to drop their story about organic marketing on there, to again get people fired up and show what can be achieved. Jo: Okay. That's on Facebook. So then let's talk about the setup. I think a lot of the time I get concerned about video because I think everything has to be on my phone. How are you setting this up technically so you can get filmed and also see comments and all of this kind of stuff? Adam: Just with my phone. Jo: It is just on your phone? Adam: Yes. I don't use any fancy camera tricks or anything. I literally just settle my phone and hit record when I'm doing it. Jo: But you set it up on a tripod or something? Adam: Yes. So I'll have a tripod. I don't do any fancy lighting or anything like that because I want the content to seem as real as possible. I'll set up the camera at an angle that shows whatever task I'm doing. For example, if I'm packing orders, I can see the screen so I can see the comments as they're coming up. It's close enough to me to interact. At Christmas, we did have a bit of a setup—it did look like a QVC channel, I'm not going to lie! I was at the back. There was a table in front of me with products on. We had mystery book bags. We had a Christmas tree. We had a big banner behind me. The camera was on the other side of the room, but I just had my laptop next to me that was logged into TikTok, so I was watching the live stream so I could see any comments coming up. Jo: Yes, that's the thing. So you can have a different screen with the comments. Because that's what I'm concerned about—it might just be the eyesight thing, but I'm like, I just can't literally do everything on the phone. Adam: TikTok has a studio—TikTok Studio—that you can download, and you can get all your data and analytics in there for your live streams. At the moment, I'll just tap the screen to add a new product or pin a new product. You can do all that from your computer on this studio where you can say, “Right, I'm showcasing this product now,” click on it and it'll come up onto the live stream. You just have to link the two together. Jo: I'm really thinking about this. Partly this is great because my other concern with TikTok and all these video channels is how much can be done by AI now. TikTok has its own AI generation stuff. A lot of it's amazing. I'm not saying it's bad quality, I'm saying it's amazing quality, but— What AI can't do is the live stuff. You just can't—I mean, I imagine you can fake it, but you can't fake it. Adam: Well, you'd be surprised. I've seen live streams where it's like an avatar on the screen and there is someone talking and then the avatar moving in live as that person's talking. Jo: Right? Adam: I've seen that where it's animals, I've seen it where it's like a 3D person. There's a really popular stream at the minute that is just a cartoon cat on the stream. Whenever you send a gift, it starts singing whoever sent it—it gets a name—and that's a system that someone has somehow set up. I have no idea how they've set it up, but they're literally not doing it. That can run 24 hours a day. There's always hundreds and hundreds of people on it sending gifts to hear this cat sing with an AI voice their name. Yes, AI will work and it will work for different things. But I think with us and with our books, people want that human connection more than ever because of AI. Use that to your advantage. Jo: Okay. So the other thing I like about this idea is you are doing these live sales and then you are looking at the amount you've sold. But are you making changes to it? Or are you only tweaking the content on your prerecorded stuff? Your live is so natural. How are you going to change it up, I guess? Adam: I am always testing what is working, what's not working. For example, I'm a big nerd at heart and I collect Pokémon cards. Now that I'm older, I can afford some of the more rare stuff, and me and my daughter have a lot of enjoyment collecting Pokémon cards together. We follow channels, we watch stuff on YouTube, and I was looking at what streamers do with Pokémon cards and how they sell like mystery products on an app or whatnot. I was like, “How can I apply this to books?” And I came up with the idea of doing mystery book bags. People pay 20 pounds, they get some goodies—some carefully curated goodies, as we say, that “Mrs. B” has put together. On stream, I never give the audience Sarah's name. It's always “Mrs. B.” So Mrs. B has built up her own brand within the stream—they go feral when she comes on camera to say hi! Then there's some goodies in there. That could be some tote socks, a tote bag, cup holders, page holders, metal pins, things like that. Then inside that, I'll pull out a thing that will say what book they're getting from our product catalogue. What I make clear is that could be anything from our product catalogue. So that could be a single book, it could be six books, it could be a three-book bundle. There's all sorts that people can get. It could be a deluxe special edition. People love that, and they tend to buy it because there's so much choice and they might be struggling with, “Right, I don't know what to get.” So they think, “You know what? I'll buy one of them mystery book bags.” I only do them when I'm live. I've done streams where the camera's on me. I've done top-down streams where you can only see my hands and these mystery book bags. Every time someone orders one, I'm just opening it live and showcasing what product they get from the stream. People love it to the point where every stream I do, they're like, “When are you doing the next mystery book bags? When are you doing the next ones?” Jo: So if we were on live now and I click to buy, you see the order with my name and you just write “Jo” on it, and then you put it in a pile? Adam: So you print labels there and then, which I'll do. Exactly. If I'm live packing them—I'm not going to lie—when I'm set up properly, I don't have time to pack them because the orders are coming in that thick and fast. All I do is have a Post-it note next to me, and I'll write down their username, then I'll stick that onto their order. I'll collect everything, showcase what they're getting, the extra goodies that they're getting with their order, and then I'll stick the Post-it on and put that to one side. To put that into context as something that works through testing different things: we started off doing 60 book bags—30 of them were spicy book bags, 30 were general fantasy which had my books and a couple of our authors that haven't got spice in their books—and the aim was to sell them within a month. We sold them within one stream. 60 book bags at 20 pounds a pop. What that also generated is people then buying other products while we're doing it. It also meant that I'd do it all on a Friday, and we'd come in on a Monday and start the week with 40, 50, 60 orders to pack regardless of what's coming from the Shopify store. The level of orders is honestly obscene, but we've continuously learned how best to manage this. We learned that actually, if you showcase the orders, stick a Post-it on, when we print the shipping labels, it takes us five minutes to just put all the shipping labels with everyone's orders. Then we can just fire through packing everything up because everything's already bundled together. It literally just needs putting in a box. Jo: Okay. So there's so much we could talk about, but hopefully people will look into this more. So I went to go watch a video—I thought, “Oh, well, I'll just go watch Adam do this. I'm sure there's a recording”—and then I couldn't find one. So tell me about that. Does [the live recording] just disappear or what? Adam: Yes, it does. It's live for a reason. You can download it afterwards if you want, and then you've got content to repurpose. In fact, you're giving me an idea. I've done a live today—I could download that clip that's an hour and 20 minutes long. Some of it, I'm just rambling, but some of it's got some content that I could absolutely use because I'm engaging with people. I've showcased books throughout it because I've been packing orders. I had an hour window before this podcast and I had a handful of orders to pack. So I just jumped on a live and I made like 250 pounds while doing a job that I would already be having to do. I could download that video, put it in OpusClip, and that will then generate short-form content for me of the meaningful interaction through that, based on the parameters that I give it. So that's absolutely something you could do. In fact, I'm probably going to do it now that you've given me the idea. Jo: Because even if it was on another channel, like you could put that one on YouTube. Adam: Yes. Wherever you want. It doesn't have a watermark on it. Jo: And what did you say? OpusClip? Adam: OpusClip, yes. If you do long-form content of any kind, you can put that in and then it'll pull out meaningful content. Loads of like 20, 30 short-form content video clips that you can use. It's a brilliant piece of software if you use it the right way. Jo: Okay. Well I want you to repurpose that because I want to watch you in action, but I'm not going to turn up for your live—although now I'm like, “Oh, I really must.” So does that also mean—you said it's UK only because the TikTok shop is linked to the UK— So people in America can't even see it? Adam: So sometimes they do pop in, but again, that's why I have a separate channel for my main author account. When I go live on that, anyone from around the world can come in. But if I've got shoppable links in, chances are the algorithm is just going to put that out to a UK audience because that's where TikTok will then make money. If I want to hit my US audience, I'll jump on Instagram because that's where I've got my biggest following. So I'll jump on Instagram and go live over there at a time that I know will be appropriate for Americans. Jo: Okay. We could talk forever, but I do have just a question about TikTok itself. All of these platforms seem to follow a way of things where at the beginning it's much easier to get reach. It is truly organic. It's really amazing. Then they start putting on various brakes—like Facebook added groups, and then you couldn't reach people in your groups. And then you had to pay to play. Then in the US of course, we've got a sale that has been signed. Who knows what will happen there. What are your thoughts on how TikTok has changed? What might go on this year, and how are you preparing? Adam: So, I think as a businessman and an author who wants to reach readers, I use the platforms for what I can get out of them without having to spend a stupid amount of money. If those platforms stop working for me, I'll stop using them and find one that does. With organic reach on TikTok, I think you'll always have a level of that. Is it harder now? Yes. Does that mean it's not achievable? Absolutely not. If your content isn't reaching people, or you're not getting the engagement that you want, or you find fulfilling, you need to look at yourself and the content you are putting out. You are in control of that. There's elements of this takeover in America—again, I've got zero control over that, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'll focus on areas that are making a difference. As I said, TikTok isn't the biggest earner for my business. My author channel's been absolutely dead for a good six months or so. But that means I get stagnant with the content I'm creating. So the challenge I'm doing at the minute, I'm taking part to create fresh content every day to recharge myself. I've got Instagram and Facebook that generate high volumes of traffic every single day. And usually if they stop, TikTok starts to work. Any algorithm changes—things will change when it changes hands in America—but primarily it still wants to make money. It's a business. If anything, it might make it harder for us to reach America because it will want to focus on reaching an American audience for the people that are buying TikTok shop. But they want it because they want the TikTok shop because of the amount of money that it is generating. It's gone from a small amount of people making money to large volumes of businesses across the entire USA—like over here now—that are reaching an audience that previously you had to have deep pockets to reach, to get your business set up. Now you've got all these businesses popping up that are starting from scratch because they're reaching people. They've got a product that's marketable, that people want to enjoy. They want to be part of that growth. I think that will still happen. It might just be a few of the parameters change, like Facebook does all the time. Jo: Things will always change. That is key. We should also say by selling direct, you've built presumably a very big email list of buyers as well. Adam: Yes. I've actually got a trophy that Shopify sent me because we hit 10,000 sales—10,000 customers. I think we're nearing 16,000 sales on there now. We've got all that customer data. We don't get that on TikTok. We haven't got the customer data. Jo: Ah, that's interesting. Okay. How do you not though? Oh, because—did they ship it? Adam: So if you link it with your Shopify and you do all your shipping direct, the customer data has to come to your Shopify, otherwise you can't ship. When TikTok ship it for you—so I print the shipping labels, but they organise the couriers—all the customer data's blotted out. It's like redacted, so you don't see it. Jo: Ah, see that is in itself a cheeky move. Adam: Yes. But if it's linked to your Shopify, you get all that data and your Shopify is your store. So your Shopify will keep that data. They kept affecting how I extracted the shipping labels and stuff like that, and just kept making life really difficult. So I've just switched it back. I think Sarah has found an app that works really well for correlating the two. Jo: Yes, but this is a really big deal. We carp on about it all the time, but— If you sell direct and you do get the customer data, you are building an email list of actual buyers as opposed to freebie seekers. Which a lot of people have. Adam: Absolutely, and that's the same for you. If you send poor products out or your customer has a poor experience, they're not going to come back and order from you again. If your customer has a really good experience and opens the products and sees all this extra care that's gone in and all the books are signed, then they've not had to pay extra. There was a Kickstarter—I'm not going to name which author it was—but it was an author whose book I was quite excited to back. They had these special editions they'd done, but you had to buy a special edition for an extra 30 quid if you wanted it signed. I was like, “Absolutely not.” If these people are putting their hands in their pockets for these deluxe special editions, and if you're a big name author, it's certainly not them that have anything to do with it. They just have other companies do it all for them. Whereas with us, you are creating everything. Our way of saying thank you to everyone is by signing the book. Jo: I love that you're still so enthusiastic about it and that it seems to be going really well. So we're almost out of time, but just quickly— Tell people a bit more about the books that they can find in your stores and where people can find them. Adam: Yes. So we publish predominantly fantasy, and we have moved into the spicy fantasy world. We have a few series there. You can check out APBeswickPublications.com where you will see our full product catalogue and all of my books. On TikTok shop, we are under a.p_beswick_publications. That's the best place to see where I go live—short-form content. I'll post spicy books on there, but on lives, I showcase everything. I also have fantasy.books.uk, where that's where you'll see the videos or product links for the non-spicy fantasy books. Jo: And what time do you go live in the UK? Adam: So I go live 8:00 AM every Friday morning. Jo: Wow. Okay. I might even have to check that out. This has been so great, Adam. Thanks so much for your time. Adam: Well, thank you for having me.The post Selling Books Live On Social Media With Adam Beswick first appeared on The Creative Penn.

What if we could fix the conference panel? You know the format—interesting people, good intentions, and about ninety percent of it forgotten by the time you reach the bar.Chat_UP Live was held at FUSE headquarters in London. Rather than just another AI panel, we ran an experiment. Working with the team at TFG Labs, we built a custom AI co-pilot that captured the onstage conversation in real time, took in audience questions, and offered evidence-based responses that pushed the discussion in genuinely non-obvious directions. Think of it as a second brain for live events.Did it work? Partly. Was it interesting? Very. This is test and learn in public—and we're sharing the results.In this episode, you'll hear how we approached football club valuations with the system running behind us. If you want to interrogate the model yourself, there's a link in the Unofficial Partner Substack newsletter—but it won't be live forever.Part two drops Friday, where we go deeper into the race to build the operating system for sports business.A huge thank you to our friends and partners in this experiment, in particular the following people:At FUSE: Helen Burford, Louise Johnson, Monica Conway, Zainab Zaman and Annabel Wilson, Lucy Basden Smith and Sean Betts.At Twenty First Group: Blake Wooster, Andy Shora, Omar Choudhuri, Dan Zelezinski, Chris Woodcock and Conall Milligan.Unofficial Partner is the leading podcast for the business of sport. A mix of entertaining and thought provoking conversations with a who's who of the global industry. To join our community of listeners, sign up to the weekly UP Newsletter and follow us on Twitter and TikTok at @UnofficialPartnerWe publish two podcasts each week, on Tuesday and Friday. These are deep conversations with smart people from inside and outside sport. Our entire back catalogue of 500 sports business conversations are available free of charge here. Each pod is available by searching for ‘Unofficial Partner' on Apple, Spotify and every podcast app. If you're interested in collaborating with Unofficial Partner to create one-off podcasts or series and live events, you can reach us via the website.

Chilly morning, Warmer weather arrives this week • This morning temperatures are in the 20s and 30s well inland. • The beaches will be above freezing this AM. • Some frost on windshields and elevated surfaces east of I-95 • Widespread freeze/frost inland. • Turning partly sunny today with highs in the mid to upper 50s • An inland freeze again tonight west of Jacksonville. • Highs make it back into the 60s tomorrow. • We reach near 70 by Thursday and mid 70s on Friday. • A few showers return for parts of the weekend. TODAY: AM Inland Frost/Freeze. Partly sunny and cool. HIGH: 58 TONIGHT: Mostly cloudy. Well inland freeze. Low: 35 WEDNESDAY: AM Inland Frost/Freeze. Partly to mostly cloudy. 35/66 THURSDAY: Partly sunny. 50/68 FRIDAY: Partly cloudy and warmer. 48/74 SATURDAY: Mostly cloudy with a few afternoon/evening showers. 50/68 SUNDAY: Mostly cloudy with a few showers. 51/59 MONDAY: Mostly cloudy with a few showers. 40/52

First Alert Weather Day: Widespread frost/freeze, Gradual warming trend ahead • This morning is cold! • Temperatures have dropped to the 20s inland and lower to mid 30s along the coast. • Widespread frost and freeze this AM. o Some neighborhoods along the coast will stay above freezing. • Highs today in the mid 50s • Overnight, another inland frost/freeze away from the coast. • We return to near 70 degrees in the afternoon by the end of the week. TODAY: First Alert Weather Day. Freezing start, then sunny and cool. HIGH: 56 TONIGHT: Mostly clear and chilly. Inland frost/freeze. LOW: 30 TUESDAY: AM Frost/Freeze. Partly sunny and cool. 30/56 WEDNESDAY: AM Inland Frost/Freeze. Partly to mostly cloudy. 35/66 THURSDAY: Mostly cloudy. 50/68 FRIDAY: Partly sunny. 48/71 SATURDAY: Mostly cloudy and mild. A few showers. 50/68 SUNDAY: Mostly cloudy with a few showers. 48/59

Some dense morning fog, Tracking near record highs • This morning temperatures are in the 60s with areas of dense fog and low clouds. o Any fog could linger through 9-10 am. o Some sea fog is possible through the day along the coast. • The sky will be mostly cloudy this morning before more sunshine this afternoon. • Highs today will be in the upper 70s. • Some neighborhoods will touch 80 degrees over the next several afternoons. • Our next chance of rain arrives early Sunday with an isolated brief shower ahead of a cold front. • The JAGS playoff game looks to be mainly dry and mostly cloudy. An isolated light shower/sprinkle is possible through midday. Temperatures in the mid to upper 60s and turning breezy. • Cold air returns Sunday night into Monday with temperatures dropping to the mid to upper 30s for the start of next work week. o Highs only in the upper 50s on Monday. TODAY: AM dense fog, clouds early, then partly sunny. HIGH: 78 (Record: 82 - 2005) TONIGHT: Partly cloudy and cool with fog. LOW: 60 FRIDAY: AM fog. Partly cloudy and warm. 60/81 (Record: 83 - 1974) SATURDAY: Mostly sunny and warm. 61/82 (Record: 82 - 1957) SUNDAY: Mostly cloudy. Isolated brief shower through midday. Turning breezy. 60/68 MONDAY: Partly cloudy, breezy and cooler. 35/57 TUESDAY: Mostly sunny. 35/62 WEDNESDAY: Mostly cloudy with an isoalted shower possible. 40/65

CBS47/FOX30 FIRST ALERT FORECAST – TUESDAY, DECEMBER 30, 2025 First Alert Meteorologist Garrett Bedenbaugh WOKV RADIO The WOKV Weather Meter for Today: 7 TODAY: Inland AM freeze. Partly cloudy and chilly. High: 54 TONIGHT: Clearing and cold. Frost/freeze. Low: 30 (Mid 30s at Duval beaches) NEW YEAR'S EVE: Cold morning. Sunny and chilly afternoon. High: 58 NEW YEAR'S DAY: Mostly sunny. High: 63 FRIDAY: Partly sunny. High: 66 SATURDAY: Mostly cloudy. Afternoon showers. High: 72

Books that caught our eye this year include Schott's Significa (yes, 'forbidden soup' is as grisly as it sounds), The Cheese Connoisseur's Handbook (yum) and Wine, Soil and Salvation in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament (biblical).This is a show of generous proportions. Partly to give you a chance for some extra listening indulgence. But also to allow us proper time to hear from best-selling author Ben Schott, 'the cheese lady' Svetlana Kukharchuk and priest and theologian Mark Scarlata.Believe us, you're going to want to hear what they have to say.So don't be a wet lettuce - pour yourself a glass and join us!As ever, you can find all details from this episode on our website: Show notes for Wine Blast S7 E12 - Our BOOKS OF THE YEAR (2025)If you'd like more information on our giveaway, please visit our Wine Blast One Million Giveaway page.You may also find this link to our Speakpipe audio message service useful.To get early access to new episodes, full archive access to our back catalogue and exclusive bonus content, subscribe to Wine Blast PLUS at wineblast.co.ukInstagram: @susieandpeter

Quaranteam - Dave In Dallas: Part 1 Surviving a horrible plague has unusual conditions. Based on a post by RonanJWilkerson, in 12 parts. Listen to the Podcast at Explicit Novels. Forward: This story occurs within the Quaranteam universe created by CorruptingPower. If you have not red the original, or any of the other spinoffs, they are highly recommended. That is not required to understand this story, they're just good, and a lot of fun. This fictional drama coincides with the timing of the 2nd wave outbreak of the Covid 19 pandemic. The modified cold virus escaped from a Chinese laboratory and directly killed more than 7 million people, but is suspected of indirectly causing the early deaths of over 20 million, in about 24 months. The DuoHalo virus that this series of novels pertains to, is far more deadly, and can only be combatted with a gene therapy injection, but it wears off in just days, unless followed up by human hormones, and only through a continual booster through both male and female genital fluids. Only the female body is capable of enduring the inoculation gene therapy dose, but she still needs the catalyst of male genital fluids, which then activates both physical and psychological mutations. Her libido goes into hyper drive. The corresponding male partner also absorbs the hormone-based anti-viral, by absorbing the woman's rich antiviral genital fluids. The world order undergoes a fundamental rest, and the fight for survival of the species becomes dependent on heterosexual mating ‘bareback', with women devoting themselves to monogamy, while men retain a capacity to be the catalyst for however many females their stamina allows. The most notable psychological mystery is the absence of female jealousy and possessiveness. Cohabitation is an essential accommodation to make the treatment work. Chapter 1. September 18, 2020. Dave Belsus sat on the floor of his hallway texturing the wall over the patch he'd installed a few days earlier. It had taken a sizable piece of sheetrock (from a layman's perspective) to repair the big gaping hole in his wall. There wasn't really a right or wrong pattern to the texturing and Dave was simultaneously restless and reluctant to move on to a different task. He finally stood, gathered his tools and materials, and hauled them down to the garage. There are still things to do. There are people depending on him. He went out to his greenhouse and stopped, closed his eyes and smelled the green. Let it soak into him. He needed to feel life around him. He just stood there for; he wasn't sure how long. Not long enough. He still felt dead inside. But he had work to do. David started harvesting some veggies to exchange with his neighbor, Lupie. Inspecting the cucumber plants, he could see two large ones were ready. He'd keep one for his own salads and send the other next door. Becca, Lupie's houseguest (once babysitter) had developed a taste for them after Dave offered one a few months ago. Several beefy tomatoes were ready, so he plucked them, keeping a few for himself. Maybe a tomato sandwich tonight or tomorrow. That'd be nice. Three heads of redleaf lettuce (he'd staggered his lettuce so a few heads were harvestable every week) were next, again, one for Dave, two for next door. Finally, a handful of strawberries were perfectly ripe. He'd let Lupie and the girls have all of those. Esme, Lupie's daughter loved strawberries. Well, who didn't? Cute little girl. Always gave Dave fierce, friendly hugs. Dave missed the farmer's markets on the weekends where he could trade or buy/sell for other varieties and veggies he didn't have space or time for. Well, now he had all sorts of time, but he still didn't have the space. Dave brought the harvested veggies into the house and sorted the veggies. Stuff for him went on the counter basket. Items for Lupie, Becca and Esme went back in the basket he'd carried into the greenhouse. Dave grabbed the basket and walked over to what had been a parlor just off his entryway. Now it was a decon area. Dave added a plasticized suit over the clothes he'd been wearing. Mid-September was still toasty in Texas, but fortunately not as bad as late August. That had been brutal. Hot enough Dave had thought about adding a water bottle with a straw to the inside of the suit. He hadn't come up with a way to attach it without breaching the suit's integrity, so he nixed the idea. He doubled down on pre-hydrating when it was absolutely necessary to go out in the damn thing. Dave gathered up the basket in the clumsy gloves. He'd gotten fairly good at manipulating medium size items while wearing the gloves. The gloves were disposable dish gloves, tucked into the suit and duct taped to it for a seal. He opened his door and crossed the lawns over to Lupie's porch. He carefully transferred the veggies over to Lupie's porch pickup box, then gathered the dozen eggs she'd left him. Lupie had several hens in a large coop in her back yard. Dave had helped her install some anti-predator devices to the top of her fence and around the coop in the before times. Being that close to Lupie was a fond memory. Nothing romantic between them, just very comfortable. And it had paid off well too. He got a dozen eggs twice a week, and sometimes a whole chicken, plucked and dressed. Sometimes even separated into parts. If he was really lucky, after bringing her some good meat, he'd get homemade tamales. Lupie was a great cook. Her cooking wasn't the only thing Dave appreciated about Lupie. Absolutely lovely inside and out. She wasn't beauty pageant pretty, she was normal girl pretty. What a lovely face to wake up to. A face that'd make a man want to come home. Nice figure too. She never wore anything too showy, but she wasn't one for baggy stuff either. Sure, she's in her early thirties and has a real job and a kid to keep track of, so she most certainly wouldn't have a washboard tummy under her shirts. Or dresses. God, Lupie looks fantastic in a dress. The way they billow around her calves always caught Dave's eye. And that hair. Long, lovely, raven black hair. Hopping back onto his own porch, Dave put the basket down and flipped on the UV lights he'd installed in the porch awning. Step one in his decontamination process. Arms straight out from his shoulders, he turned slowly. One full circle palms down, another palms up. He flipped off the light, opened the door and grabbed the basket. Inside, he stripped off the outer suit, hanging it on hooks in the entryway, set the basket in the kitchen, then went straight to the upstairs shower, the one near the unused bedrooms. Excessive? Possibly. But Dave wasn't going to be another statistic. Viruses don't negotiate. Dave didn't either. That's what Lysol was for. Not that the average person could get much of that anymore. Still, if you weed out the essential oils nuts, there were some good recipes for home sanitizers online. You just had to pay attention to the recommended duration. Some were stronger than others and didn't need to be left on a surface as long. After toweling off and tossing the towel in the hamper, Dave went to the master bedroom to put on fresh clothes. Then he went back down to wash the lettuce and cucumber and started making a small salad. Dave didn't like eating right before exertion, but he hadn't eaten in a day and a half. He need to workout the anger surging through him too. So he compromised - a small salad, then beat the crap out of imaginary opponents. Lettuce base, quartered tomato, quartered boiled egg, diced cucumber, and balsamic vinaigrette. Tasty enough that he'd finish it. Small enough he wouldn't blow chunks while he's exercising. Kitchen cleanup gave the food a little time to settle. Dave walked across the house to get his staff from the gym, then went back to the sliding glass door separating the living room from the backyard. He walked to the large flat platform in the middle of the yard, stretching his arms as he went. He stretched his legs when he got there. Then he took a several minutes with warm up motions. He ran through each of the basic strikes and defenses in a pattern he practiced at least three times a week. He repeated the sequence five times. Then he launched into a series of combination motions. Half-staff upper hand strike on the right, followed by the left. A horizontal block leading into a full staff strike starting from the lower left into the upper right. On and on. Each pattern repeated. Each repetition faster. Turning. Striking. Blocking. Faster. Dave's face, initially a blank mask, grew pained, then angry. Anger flowed into rage. In his rage, Dave lost track of his position on the platform. He unknowingly stepped off the platform. It was only two or three inches high, but that was enough. He caught his fall with his staff and avoided an unceremonious face plant. Still, the interruption pulled him out of the mental space he'd been in. His breathing was ragged. Sweat soaked his clothes, dripped from every part of his body. The air was no longer flinty, but it was still too hot for heavy, continuous exertion. He felt a small wave of nausea roll through his belly. Time to pack it in. He cleaned off the end of the staff he'd use to stop his fall, then walked inside, stowed the staff back in the gym, and went up to the master suite shower stall. The shower refreshed Dave's body. Time to give his mind something to do. Eastfield College had only partially re-opened, just a few online classes. He had one section of astronomy to teach for the folks that wanted something more exciting than physical science for their science core requirement. No one was taking chemistry or physics this semester. The chemistry instructor was still alive. She'd laid down the law in her house and they had taken lockdown seriously. They just didn't have a good substitute for teaching the lab part of the class yet. The full-time physics guy had inexplicably taken the same attitude as too many in the county. He died before the spring semester ended. The guy had a doctorate in physics, twelve published papers to his name and spent twenty years living in scientific circles. You'd think he'd know better than to fall in with the idiot brigade. Hell, maybe the college would take Dave on full time to cover the physics courses once they opened up for real. Dave logged into to the course website, checking grades in the online homework column and looking for any labs submitted by the faster, more diligent (or just bored) students. No new work since yesterday. Maybe the rest would wait until last minute on Sunday night. On no, a procrastinating college student. What a surprise! A text message notification pulled him out of his reverie. It was from Lupie. "Please say yes." He was about to reply, asking her what he was supposed to say yes to, when he heard the doorbell. Crap. Dave rushed downstairs to the door, hearing a second ring on the way down. He grabbed a mask and slipped it on quickly just before opening the door a crack with his shoulder braced against it if he needed to slam it shut again. A man in a hazmat suit stood on Dave's porch, carrying a small case and wearing what appeared to be a watch on his right wrist. "Good morning sir, my name is Arthur Samuelson, I'm with the CDC. May I come in?" "You ain't a vampire are you?" The grin on Dave's face indicated he was joking. Arthur chuckled. "No sir, just administering tests checking for DuoHalo and making arrangements for vaccination." Dave got the impression a few details were being skipped here, as if the man in front of him was easing him in with the broadest strokes first. "A vaccine? Holy shit. Yeah, come on in dude." Dave backed up and opened the door fully. After making sure the door was fully closed, Dave led Arthur to the dining room table. Arthur immediately pulled out sterile cotton swabs, the kind with wooden stems and cotton only on one end, a small box. Arthur tapped the face of the watch and then typed in a numeric sequence when a digital number pad popped up. "It's a monitor. Some folks have taken a militant approach since the lockdowns started. Every time the watch buzzes at me, I have to enter a code within 30 seconds or they send a squad of troops to my coordinates." Dave reacted briefly, but nonverbally. Well, some people try to drown the lifeguard that's there to save their ass. Whoever said we've evolved past our caveman days isn't paying attention. Arthur handed one of the hospital style cotton swabs to Dave. "Just swab the inside of your cheek very well, no brain tickling this time." Dave swabbed as instructed, then handed the stick back to Arthur. Arthur set about processing the sample and placing it in the testing device. "This will take a few minutes. While we are waiting, is there anyone else to be tested here?" "No, I live alone." "Big place." "Yeah, I . . . had other plans, but they didn't pan out. Been here by myself for a few years now. Nice neighbors, especially next door, Lupie." Dave mentioned Lupie intentionally. Given the short time span between the text and the doorbell, it was possible, but not certain, the two were connected. "Yes, I just came from there. Nice ladies." "So, are you going door-to-door doing this, like somebody selling steak knives?" Arthur guffawed. "Not quite. We used electric usage rates to determine which houses still have people living in them. Then we set routes for each test administrator for a day. Also, you're going to like what I'm offering a lot more than steak knives, but they won't all come at once." Dave chuckled, but held back a bit. "So multiple booster shots?" "Something like that." Arthur's grin was slightly cryptic, like he was hiding a joke he wasn't ready to reveal just yet. "I hate needles man. I put up with them, but I usually have to look away when I get stuck for shots or blood donations." "We'll see what we can do to make it easier on you." The cryptic grin hadn't receded. Then the box trilled a three note sequence. Arthur checked it. "Congratulations, you are virus free. Let's make arrangements to keep you safe from this thing." Arthur pressed a button on the box, which then printed out a strip of paper. He handed the strip over to Dave. "So here's the deal: you know by now DuoHalo is deadly, especially to men. Like an 80% fatality rate for us guys." Dave's eyes hooded over. "I'm aware." "Yes, well it seems directly administering the vaccine is 100% fatal to men." "How the fuck is that supposed to help? Leave a planet of Valkyries that only survives if they solve cloning or learn to create artificial semen in one generation?" Dave shouted, but managed not to rise out of his seat. Arthur leaned back somewhat, as if subconsciously giving Dave a little extra space. "No sir, we have a solution, just please hear me out." Dave calmed himself and prepared to listen to what comes after three of the worst words to hear. Whatever followed those three words was either incredibly good, or monumentally bad. Dave wasn't holding his breath for the former. "No, no, nothing like that. It turns out that women can act as intermediaries for the vaccine, sort of a buffer solution. I'm sorry, that may not - " "I know what a buffer solution is and how it functions." "Oh, excellent. You see, we have found that if a vaccinated woman has intercourse with a man, her body buffers the vaccine serum and her immunity transfers - in part - to the man." "Intercourse? As in sex?" Arthur smirked "Someone at the office started referring to this as the STV - Sexually Transmitted Vaccine." Dave rolled his eyes briefly, then closed them and shook his head. "Okay, there is a website with text and videos to explain more details, but a few more things I should say before I leave. First, it takes more than one woman to keep a man safe. That means you will have multiple women 'sharing' you." Dave's eyebrows shot up, but he kept his mouth shut and listened for now. "The vaccine also creates some kind of bond between men and women, so once they sleep with you, they can't be with another man. Ever. It's extremely dangerous for the woman." Seeing Dave start to object, Arthur rushed along "The website I gave you is a highly detailed and personal survey. Women take the same survey. The results get processed through a system called Oracle that has been rigorously tested to match people. We don't want someone stuck with a person they can't stand." Hearing this, Dave was somewhat mollified. Arthur's haste from a moment ago clearly intended to forestall Dave's objection. Of course, Arthur probably thought the concern was for Dave being stuck with an objectionable woman. Dave was equally concerned with a woman getting stuck with him. "Alright so last few questions, how much space is there in this house?" "Oh, well, I have a king size canopy bed in the master bedroom. There are four more bedrooms upstairs, two of which have twin beds in them. The other two have no furniture." "You're going to want to change that. Your first partner will likely arrive tomorrow, with more coming every week, maybe four days apart, at least until we get you up to four partners. Eventually, you will be assigned at least twelve women. Oh, and one more thing." Arthur handed Dave a plain white letter envelope bearing Dave's name in a flowing script. "Your neighbor Lupie asked me to give this to you. I'll step out to the living room to give you some privacy, but I'll need an answer before I leave." Dave was puzzled and concerned but nodded Arthur towards the couch visible through the archway separating the dining and living rooms. Dave pulled out his pocketknife and slit the envelope open. His eyes widened at the first line. First line, hell - the salutation! Dearest David, Words cannot express just how wonderful it is just to address you in that way. I don't know when I began falling for you. I can tell you that last year, when I said I wanted a man who could make a living for us so that I could stay home, raise our kids, and love him with my whole heart, I was thinking of you. Yes, I know it's a bit silly to some, since I earn quite a nice income without any help, but that does not make me feel whole. I want to love you, and Esme, and the children we have together. Yes David, I want to bear your children and raise them with you. I wanted that before all of this lockdown and death started. And now, with all that's been lost, I want to feel life in my body. I want you to put it there. I never want to be away from Esme again. I want to manage your household and love you and our children and whomever else comes into our lives with the way the world is changing. I understand from the gentleman that came to our door that the vaccine has some unusual effects, including emotional and psychological impacts. This is why I am writing to you now, before I take the vaccine. I want to make sure you know this is really what I want. Before anything affects me. I love you. I want to be with you for a lifetime. You should also know that Becca wants to be with you as well. I suspect you will have objections based on her age. Yet, you know she is incredibly mature and responsible. You know what she went through to protect Esmeralda. You know what she has suffered through. Her world is completely unmoored. You, Esme, and I are all that she has left. Your heart and your mind know these things to be true. One thing you may not be aware of - Becca considers you her hero. For so many things big and small that you have done for us during this lockdown. Besides, she's a sci-fi and gaming nerd too, you two will get along quite well if you give her a chance. I love you desperately David. Please say yes. For both of us. Forever yours, Lupie. Dave reached into his back pocket for a handkerchief to dry his eyes. Lupie wanted him all along? Images flashed through his mind. Lupie laughing in a flowy dress on a pleasant spring day. Lupie's hands touching his as they exchanged eggs or produce. Lupie bringing him a glass of ice water while he repaired her fence because he couldn't bear the thought of her blowing money on a contractor. Lupie's proud grin as he thanked her and expounded on the deliciousness of the fresh tamales she brought over late last fall. Their hands had touched then too, hadn't they? No, she touched his hand. Not an accident. Dear God what an idiot! Hell yes he wanted Lupie in his life! And she had been showing him she wanted him in hers. Then his mind turned to Rebecca. Just barely eighteen, and him already forty-six. If she were five years older, she'd still be half his age! Everything Lupie said in her letter was true though. The four of them had gotten through this lockdown together - Lupie, her nine-year-old daughter Esme, and Becca, the young babysitter that had taken on so much when this first started. Loyalty to someone that had weathered the storm with him. Sympathy for someone who'd lost her entire family, even her extended relations. Admiration of the strength, character and resilience she'd shown. Mix in a little lust, 'cuz she's kinda cute. Nerdy cute. But then, Dave is a nerd, he likes nerd girls. Among others. So the only thing holding him back was a number? He'd seen that girl show more loyalty and honor than women twice her age! David took a cleansing breath and blew it slowly out. Arthur picked up on the change, stood and strode back to the dining room. "Have you made a decision?" "Yes. I will accept them both. I'd be a fool not to. How do we do that though? You said something about a matching program?" "Right, however a man may ask for a particular woman. The computer jockeys have to do some manual work for this to happen, so it's not a common occurrence. The two profiles are run through Oracle and the woman is informed of the request, the man's brief bio, and the match percentage of their profiles. Then she can choose to assent or decline." "Sounds like something waiting to be abused." "Hmm. I don't know of any such abuse occurring. I can see the potential you're talking about, but that would require one or more well placed conspirators in one of the vaccination centers." "And that never happens?" "Not to my knowledge. Not yet anyway. I need to get going. I'll inform your neighbors you've agreed. They'll pack a small suitcase and be ready to get picked up tonight or possibly tomorrow morning. You should expect your first partner to arrive sometime tomorrow. As long as you get that profile filled out. And be ruthlessly honest. It's quite thorough. Some questions might make you a bit uncomfortable. Fudging the answers could lead to poor results. And get it in quick. As soon as - Lupie and Becca? -" Dave nodded "are entered in the system, they will be compared to you. If your profile isn't there when the programmers run the comparison, they will be given a random match." Dave nodded his understanding, then rose to walk his guest out. Guest. After all these months, isn't that a hell of a thing? "Remember man, completely, brutally honest." With that, Arthur left. Dave closed the door behind him. He pulled out his phone and started typing. Yes To both of you. The little dots started dancing while he was still typing the second line. Thank you, David! Thank you so much! I'm sorry I held back so long! I have a lot to say to you too. But I want to say it in person. To look you in the eyes. Lupie, you have made me very happy. Happier than I feel I am worthy of. I can't wait to see you again. Face to face. Dave's phone buzzed with an incoming message, but there was nothing new from Lupie. He popped back to the inbox screen, finding an entry from Becca with an image. He opened it and just stared for a moment. He blinked when he realized his mouth was hanging open. Framed in the image was Becca, clearly taking a selfie, from just above her head to the bottom of her ribcage. She was biting her bottom lip and blushing furiously. Probably because the hand not holding the phone was holding her shirt and bra pulled up above her tits. Dave was embarrassed for a moment, then decided why not savor it? Hell, he'd be sharing a bed with her. He would see more than just her pert young boobies then. He sent a thumbs up, followed by: When you're all in, you're really all in huh? ; Laugh emoji ; Yeah, is that ok? ; Do you like them? Are they too small? They're beautiful. They're a part of you, and that makes them wonderful. Always remember that your body, as lovely as it is, is merely a bonus. You won me over with the strength of your character, your courage, your resilience. ; crying emoji, heart emoji ; You make me want to come over right now. ; peach, eggplant, water spurt ; See you in a few days. ; Lover. Dave had made it back to his office and woke his computer with a quick mouse shake. As he logged in, his phone buzzed again. This time it was Lupie. ; Is everything ok? Becca is acting really skittish, and she's blushing like she's embarrassed. Didn't you say yes to her? I did and do. If she doesn't want to tell you, I won't either. Yet. ; monocled raised eyebrow emoji I promise. I'll see you both - all three of you soon. Tell Esme she's getting a big hug. ; I will. I'll have a really nice hug for you too. Looking forward to it. Oh wow. GuadaLupie Jimena Angelina Gutierrez Ramos is itching to live in his house, share a bed with him, and spend her life with him? Fairy tales .. can come true.. it can happen to you; Dave forced himself to focus. He typed in the u r l Arthur had given him. Things started out bland enough. Girls, boys, both? Ladies only. Age range? Dave's first instinct was to set the bottom age to around 25 or 30. He's forty-six for God's sake. Yeah, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out repopulation was going to be an issue, and younger women had both more years of fertility and were more fertile, so at some point, someone would force the issue and each man would be paired with some women under twenty five. But Becca. If Dave set the minimum above eighteen, she might not even get a chance to match with him. That would likely separate her from Lupie and Esme as well. But that left the door open for other teens. Well, Arthur did say women got to pick who they paired with. Fuck it. I'm not screwing over Becca. That's not even a choice. We'll deal with whatever else results as we go. By the time Dave finished the Oracle survey, his stomach was growling. He wasn't quite done yet though. He only had a bare minimum of sheets and towels, so he went online and ordered three changes of sheets for both of the twin beds (there was already one set on each now), two full-sized beds for the two unfurnished rooms, four changes of sheets for those, and four dressers. He went down to the kitchen and pulled out the half tomato left from his lunch salad and started slicing it. After making his tomato sandwich, he added some chips and pickles to the plate. He sat quietly, alone, at the table, realizing that this may be the last dinner he has by himself. Arthur said multiple women. This whole house would be full of people. Full of life. What a difference a day makes. Dave was cleaning up from breakfast the next morning when he heard a knock at the door. He had just turned the water off at the sink, so it was possible this wasn't the first knock. He rushed to the door, grabbing a mask enroute. When he opened the door, a soldier stood there with a clipboard, a young lady beside and behind him. "You David Belsus?" "I am." "Meet your new partner sir, sign here please." Dave signed by the red x. "Y'all have a good day." He tipped his ball cap bill "Ma'am" and walked off. "Hi, I'm Janice Hoppler." She stuck out her hand and Dave shook it while processing what he was seeing. She was cute, late twenties or early thirties, distinctly Korean features, and jet black hair reaching the middle of her back. Dave had marked long hair as one of his desired traits in a woman, giving it a seven out of ten priority. Short hair can be nice, but nothing is so distinctly feminine as long hair. He'd pass up big boobs if a woman had long hair. Not that he'd mind getting both. Not even a little. "Can I come inside?" Dave realized he'd been shaking her hand for a bit too long and not saying anything. "Oh, sure. Sorry, this is kinda surreal." She grinned. "Ya, I know. First a pandemic kills off a huge part of the population, and now the solution is to fuck like bunnies and every man gets like a dozen women? Sounds like some high school boy's fantasy dream." Her dark eyes danced as she laughed. Dave brought her in to sit in the living room, mindful to sit somewhat close so he didn't appear distant, but not all up in her personal space. "Yeah, well, the hard part will be keeping up with the libidos of ten or twelve women. Especially since the videos mentioned you're each going to have an accelerated sex drive." "They also said you would get some invigoration as well. But don't worry, I'll make sure your part is plenty hard so it can do its work." Janice giggled when Dave blushed and closed his eyes. "Sorry, that's not the kind of thing I'd normally say out loud, but they did say all of us ladies will wind up much more forward than we had been before." "That could be helpful, I'm not great at picking up on subtle signals. When it happens, I just think a woman is being nice, but not interested. Or I think she's interested and she's just being nice." "Well, I'm interested enough to choose to be bonded with you for the rest of my life so consider this carte blanche to get frisky anytime you feel like it." She stood, strode to his chair and planted a smoky kiss on his lips, but no tongue. Dave took a breath to recover and register that this was really happening. "So, would you like to see the place first?" "Sure." Janice took his hand as he stood. "You've seen the entryway and parlor," Dave said guiding Janice past the couch into the dining room and beyond into the kitchen. "So here's the kitchen. The small door in the corner is the pantry. Upper two cabinets next to the fridge are dry foods. The other two are dishes and glasses. Lower cabinets are pots, pans, etc." Janice sniffed the air. "You cook much? Smells like you just had breakfast." "Yeah, I had just finished dishes. Did y'all have to knock more than once?" "Twice. But that's worth it for a man that can cook." "You cook much?" "I have to follow box directions carefully to get mac n' cheese to come out decent. I can only do cakes with help from Betty or Duncan and even that is an iffy proposition. Is that a problem, that I don't cook?" "Oh no, not at all." Dave led her out of the kitchen, winding back through the dining room and living room. "Up the stairs are the bedrooms, a full bath, my office, and the master suite." Her eyes glimmered. "Shortly." He paused. "Wow, that's new, me being the one to hold off." "I can see you want it. It's kinda sexy you wanting me, but not just jumping me." "Hmm. I 'll keep that in mind." He hoped his eyes were conveying his interest. Guess they were. "So, we were talking about cooking. I love to cook and so does Lupie. Becca enjoys it I think, but she's still learning. Not bad. She made me birthday cupcakes over the summer. Of course, we had to do the careful packaging and cleaning bit. She wanted to so bad after I made her a birthday dinner and cupcakes." "Who are Lupie and Becca?" "Oh, right, my neighbors." "Oh, the Latina woman and her daughter?" "The daughter is Esme. She's nine. Becca is the eighteen year old blonde. When did you see them?" "They were loading -" Dave and Janice had just arrived at the first door off the hallway past the living room. A former guest bedroom, Dave had done some renovations, adding the closet space of the room onto the half bath and converting that into a full bath. The rest of the room he had filled with bookshelves and comfortable chairs. A few small tables sat near the chairs to rest a drink or a book on. One table bore a good-sized and fairly recent globe. A map of the U S A and a world map adorned one wall in the sitting area. And of course, all the shelves were loaded with books. Janice took a few steps into the room past Dave, who had stopped the moment she cut herself off, wondering what was wrong. When she spun to face him, he saw the look of a kid walking into a candy store with a hand full of monthly allowance. Janice swiftly crossed the small distance between them, launched her short frame into his arms and kissed him fiercely. "Fuck me. Fuck me right here, right now." Dave's brain was not keeping up with the changes. Janice wasn't waiting anyway. She quickly unbuckled his belt, unbuttoned and unzipped his pants and shoved them to his ankles, along with his boxers. She dropped to her knees and started kissing and licking his cock. As it began to fill out, she took it in her mouth and bobbed her head along its length. Dave had always been self-conscious about his cock. It wasn't anything impressive as far as he knew. It didn't help that it shrank in both length and girth in the flaccid state. A cheating ex-wife didn't help things either. And yet, here was this beautiful woman, on her knees, hungry for his cock. Janice's eyes rolled back in her head and a deep, guttural moan issued from her chest. She stilled for a moment, falling back with her ass on her heels. She looked like she might fall over, so Dave took hold of her shoulders. After a minute or so, She looked up at him, happy and hungry. "That. was. Awesome!" Then her eyes zeroed in on his cock again, taking the same look as a hawk spying a squirrel. He was fully erect now. Janice rose up enough to shove his hips. "On the ground baby. Time to finish this. Make me your horny little bitch for life." Dave lay down, Janice not even waiting until he was all the way down to crawl up his body and straddle him. The sensations he picked up from the tip of his cock as she settled herself told him she wore no panties under her loose skirt. She quickly lined him up with her entrance and sat back forcefully. "Fuck yeah. This thing feels so damn good baby. God, how the hell are you still single? I'd fucking sell my soul to you if you promised to fuck me." She started rising a bit, then shoving herself back down, then grinding her clit against him. "Fucking perfect fucking thickness and length. I feel so stuffed, and not painful." She placed her palms over his nipples and began focusing her efforts on riding up and down, her breathing getting ragged. Janice emitted several moans and grunts as she worked herself and Dave up to a pinnacle. For his part, Dave was just hoping to last long enough for her to enjoy this. It had been a while since he'd been with a woman and Rosy Palm just isn't the same. He felt his pleasure rising rapidly and focused on holding it back. Just then she threw her head back and howled in pleasure as her inner muscles ran riot gripping him. He crested too, shooting up into her. Her howl nearly became a scream, her whole body shaking, seizing. Dave grasped her torso at the bottom of her ribcage to give her some stability. She collapsed like a ragdoll, her arms, limbs and neck going limp, dangling from her still vertical body in Dave's hands. Dave lowered her body to his and gently rolled them over, one hand behind her head to keep it from flopping around. He pulled up his boxers and pants so his legs could move enough to stand. Doing so, he tucked himself back in and fastened his pants. Dave crouched beside his sleeping beauty, gave her a soft kiss on her forehead, then scooped her into his arms and carried her up to the master bedroom. He laid her out gently on top of the covers and draped a light blanket over her. Then he went back to his computer to watch some of the videos he had skipped. Clearly, he had missed a few important facts. Janice has Dave all to herself for one day. Chapter 2 - Janice's Day. September 19, 2020. Dave fought the urge to go straight to his computer and watch more videos on this vaccine. He'd anticipated the chanting of 'imprinting' but he'd skipped over the parts of the videos on sexual effects, thinking it would wait, or not even matter. That reaction was not natural. Okay, he's somewhat decent in bed, but that shit was next level, pornstar stuff. No way a woman got that excited over his crank. Before he could go video surfing, he needed to get over and feed Lupie's chickens. No telling when they'd be back, probably tomorrow, and the chickens had to get fed. At least he wouldn't need to truss up. He wasn't running into anyone else. Dave slipped through the fence gate separating Lupie's front yard from her backyard. She left it unlocked all the time. Dave only mentioned it once, and then remained low-level worried for her when she never locked it. Dave was pulled out of his musing by a low growl. In the backyard, glaring at him, was a large dog, a mutt with a lineage that ran thick and muscular. The eyes looked somewhat red, but the muzzle showed clear evidence of dried blood. Most likely a neighbor had died, thus cutting of the dog's food supply. It broke out of its own backyard and had been killing other dogs, cats or squirrels thus far. Now it was thinking squab for breakfast and Dave had just interrupted. Well, first good news, no foaming at the mouth so it's probably not rabid. Still a good idea to not get bit though. Holding stock still, Dave scanned the area, moving his eyes only, searching for anything that could be helpful. Ironically, Dave had a number of weapons at home that would have solved this little problem for the neighborhood. Not that they were doing him any good right now. A shop broom. Lupie kept a shop broom on the back porch, and it was just a few feet away. Well that's something. Dave took a small step sideways and the growling turned to a couple of loud barks. The dog leaned to one side, as if anticipating the need to intercept Dave running sideways. Dave's hand reached out slowly, causing the dog to bark harshly and take two steps closer. Dave's hand connected with the broom. When he began pulling the broom to him, the dog charged, open mouth, teeth bared. Feeling a little ridiculous, Dave snapped into ready position, the brush part of the broom held low. He thrust the broom under the dog's muzzle, the bristles splaying out absurdly. The dog reared back, possibly about to leap over the broom, so Dave adjusted his motion upward, catching the dog's chin and flipping it up and back. The dog kept his back feet planted and swiveled its head to take the broom head in its mouth. It swung its head back and forth, attempting to pull the broom from Dave's hands. Dave took a firm grip and unscrewed the handle from the broom, with a few added jabs to keep the dog off balance as he did so. The dog noticed the moment the head come loose from the handle. It threw down the head and came charging again. Dave of course was ready for this, swinging the metal threads on the head end of the handle in an arc that delivered an upper cut to the dog's jaw. With an angry yip, the dog pulled back, barked, and circled. Dave turned with the dog, waiting for the next charge. When it came, Dave snapped the end of the handle on the dog's head in a downward strike that connected, but did not stop the dog. Dave slipped sideways as he brought the other end of the handle around, catching the dog in the shoulder. At this point, Dave realized scaring the dog off might not work at all, and if it did, the dog would be back in an hour or so. He was going to have to kill the dog to keep the chickens safe. Dave had already maneuvered to the concrete porch in Lupie's backyard. He slammed the end of the broom handle in a downward strike on the porch, snapping the end off and leaving a splintered point on the end. He now had a spear. The dog charged again. This time, Dave waited until the dog reared up to leap before plunging the sharpened end of the handle into the dog's torso. A sickening yelp issued from the dog as the makeshift spear drove into its chest cavity. The dog fell, pulling Dave's weapon from his hands, and lay growling, panting and whimpering on the porch. Mortally wounded, the dog was still dangerous. It was also in pain. Dave needed to dispatch it quickly. Every moment it wasted away would wear on his soul. He spotted Lupie's garden trowel. Moving swiftly, he grabbed it, slipped behind the dog, and drove the trowel into the base of the skull, ending the animal's pain. Once he was sure the animal was neither a danger nor in pain, Dave sat back on his haunches and wept bitter tears. Hell, he'd kill deer and turkey before, but that was hunting. What meat he didn't eat or give to Lupie was donated to a local charity to feed the poor or homeless. The butcher he used sold the deerskin and turkey feathers to local crafters for their works. This animal was dead because it was hungry and targeted the wrong prey. Feeling like an utter wimp, Dave wiped his eyes and face dry. He went back to his own garage, pulled out a tarp, and headed back to Lupie's yard. Dave wrapped the dog in the tarp, then carried it through the back gate, and tossed the carcass in the rolling garbage bin. More waste. More death. By the time Dave got back, the chickens had largely settled down. He scattered some seed into their enclosure and filled the water tank from the backyard hose. Dave left the backyard, pulling Lupie's gate closed tightly behind him and returned to his own home. He went upstairs to the master suite bathroom and scrubbed his arms thoroughly. Partly to remove any fluids that might have gotten on him. Mostly as a psychological exercise, trying to wash away what happened. Emerging from the bathroom, Dave was captured by Janice's sleeping face. He climbed into bed and lay beside her, watching her gently breathe. Drinking in the feeling of another life nearby. But he had work to do. And some research on what happened this morning. Maybe watching the videos first would help get his head settled again so he could focus on his project. Rewatching the video he'd skipped parts of, he hit the part explaining the bonding effect of the serum on women with a male partner. Did that work in reverse? Is that why he found Janice's muttering of 'imprinting' slightly sexy, but not the lady in the video? His thoughts were interrupted by his text warning bing. Lupie sent; Can you look a few things up for me? There's a lot of terms here I don't know and I can't ask Lupie face to face. And I can't look it up without leaving the survey. Sure, what do you need defined? If I don't know, I'll search it up for you. Lupie sent; Okay, the first one is fictophilia. That one I'll need to look up. Oh, okay, that's having an attraction to a fictional character. Not sure if that's the same as cosplay or not. Lupie sent; So if I had that, would you dress up as Malcom Reynolds for me? Sure. But I might want reciprocation. Lupie sent; Zoey, Kaylee, or Inara Sera? Yes. Lupie sent; huge crying laughing emoji ok, how about lactophilia? I mean, it's tasty, but I'm not fixated on it. She posted a question mark. Oh, sorry, it means you like for your partner to suckle mother's milk from you during foreplay or sex. Or, you know, you want to suckle *from* them. Another lady I mean Lupie sent; Oh Shit, I didn't know that was a thing! Okay, I kinda like the idea of you sucking on me during, you know. Not sure I'm into other girls though. Eventually we are going to get better at finishing those sentences kitten. We'll be 'you knowing a lot. Lupie sent; laugh emoji And you don't have to do anything with another woman Never, if you aren't interested. It took a few minutes, and Dave was about to hit play again on the video when another text from Becca came in. Lupie sent; somnophilia? It means you get aroused seeing a sleeping person. Or you want to be taken in your sleep. Lupie sent; Oh god, I just had this thrill run through me at the idea of waking up with you already in me, on top of me. So we're doing that? Lupie sent; Oh yeah. oh, and I hit yes on watersports too. I'd love to do it in the shower, or a pool. God, wish we had a pool, that would be awesome. No no no no! That is not; what watersports means! Watersports means pee! You want to be pee'd on or you want to pee on your partner! Lupie sent; Oh Gross. barf emoji People do that? Surely you've seen porn pics of girls squatting and peeing in a field or on a road? Lupie sent; Yeah. Well, that's what it's for. Lupie sent; No offense Dave, but that's a hard no. We are in absolute agreement kitten. Lupie sent; Okay, finally finished. I hit submit, now the great microchip brain gets to spin our data and tell us how close we are. Lupie sent; I'm a little scared David. What if it doesn't match us? Becca, worrying isn't going to help you at all. Just get a snack, talk with Esme or Lupie. Or talk with another lady if there's someone nearby. Lupie sent; I miss you already. The text went quiet. Dave waited a few more minutes and then turned his attention to his computer. Time to focus on his side project. The secret one. For his public side job, Dave did data analysis, but no one was sending him new numbers to crunch or putting out bids at the moment. Government types probably had more data than they knew how to process, but Dave had never done government jobs and never had any clearance level. His 'quiet' side job was less boring but could be problematic if some prudish Karen found out. Well, some folks knew, because they paid him money. But no one had connected his online persona with him. Dave had written two adult visual novels, with good reviews. Now he worked on a game with adult themes. And pictures, of course. Fitting his personal fiction interests, the background was an apocalyptic scenario, and the main character built a harem of capable and beautiful ladies to; survive. Even with software support, Dave wasn't much of an artist, so he had an arrangement with someone else to render the images and short video scenes. Version 0.3 had been out for three months, so he was working intently to complete 0.4 before Thanksgiving. The artist was reliable and good. Dave just needed to give him (her? They used anonymous internet handles) clear and detailed descriptions of what he wanted. That meant figuring out what was happening in this next update. Lockdown had somewhat helped. Dave had more free time available. He'd gotten 0.3 out early, but that just meant his paying supporters wanted more. And they are paying, even in months he didn't produce anything. Half an hour of banging his head against code (and thinking strongly of banging his head against the wall) Dave finally got 'in the flow' and cranked out the last bit of story structure over the next two hours. That ended when his grumbling stomach informed him of his neglect. First though, he'd look in on Janice. It was both strange and comforting, seeing this lovely woman in his bed, sleeping peacefully. His heart warmed at the sight, but a nagging fear rose in him as well. He knew this was only due to this strange vaccine. How long until the bio geeks find a solution so women were not stuck with a guy forever? That would be a very telling day. One which Dave would welcome, but also feared. Feeling the need for some comfort food, Dave made himself a couple of grilled cheese sandwiches, then piled two handfuls of chips on the plate. He didn't keep soda in the house unless company was coming, so he grabbed a lime flavored seltzer. He liked soda, but that's why he didn't keep it around. After cleaning up from lunch, Dave headed back to his office space to check in on his Astronomy class. They had a project due this past weekend, so it was time to grade the results. Thirty minutes later, he felt like his eyes were bleeding reading the same errors repeatedly. Most of them were doing the math correctly, but they were measuring completely wrong. Which didn't make sense, given that Dave had made a video explicitly showing how to take the measurements. It was a simple parallax trick astronomers used for gauging distance to stars. It told also be used by surveyors to measure distance across a river or gorge. If you do it right. What he wanted to do was bang his head against a wall for ten minutes, then arrange a live zoom session with his students to find out what they didn't understand, and then have them do the project again. But there may not be enough time to complete all the semester topics. Fuck it, put out another tutorial video on the topic so they can get the parallax questions right on the midterm, and just be a little lenient grading this set of work. Work email popped a new message. From the dean. What the fuck? Seriously? Online physics? For majors? The whole point of slipping physics into the degree plans of doctors and other professionals has more to do with analytical techniques and detailed, careful experimental training than the topics covered. Yeah, several of the topics apply closely to those future careers also, but mostly it's used to make sure these kids understand the precision needed in scientific professions, how to analyze data, read graphs and use equations. And since it's tough, it weeds out those without the dedication or talent to go the distance. Dave shot back a reply email, asking for clarification. Will there be a budget to buy kits so kids can do experiments at home? How long to I have to assemble my own kits, or source some third party? What's the budget limit? Dave groaned. Just two years ago they'd gotten a grant to buy some great new lab equipment. But he only had one classroom set, and it was expensive. No way could he send out this gear to the students. Not enough for each one to have a set. And even if no one tried anything fishy, basic forgetfulness would result in a third of the equipment missing by the end of the semester. This shit was way too expensive for that. A second email from the dean, not a reply to his reply, a new topic. At least she was dependably methodical on that. Different topic required a different email chain. She might be a squishy (the dean was a microbiologist, Dave referred to all life science degreed folks as 'squishies') with little imagination on administrative matters, but she was very consistent and precise. Okay, so she's giving him a heads up on; a vaccine? Cute. Dave sent back a reply, thank her for the information, but his first partner arrived this morning and is currently passed out. She shot back a reply, relieved that he was safe, followed by an observation that departmental parties with spouses were going to be much larger from now on. Then she replied to the other email, pointing out that several big universities do online, without hands on labs. They sent the students pre-collected data and had them only do the analysis. Dave could go that route if he wanted. Of course, if Dave chose to put a few labs requiring data collection by the students, along with other labs that only used canned data, that would make their online physics more rigorous than those other schools. Just saying'. Lovely. Dave went back to grading and finished the column out. At least for those that had already submitted. A half hour surfing science kit supply companies left him unimpressed, so he pulled out a sheet of paper and outlined a video on parallax. His head wasn't right to shoot it today, but he could plan it. The day was wearing on and Dave had already gotten a lot done. Time for a brain break. Dave locked out the computer and headed downstairs to the library. Standing in the fiction area, He browsed for a bit before pulling out an old favorite, Executive Orders by Tom Clancy. He settled into a lounge chair in the library and let his mind and body relax. As usual, Dave lost all track of time while immersed in a book. He was midway through a particularly engrossing passage when Janice came through the library door with a huge grin. She'd changed out of her clothes from this morning, now dressed in his 'not procrastinating, just doing side quests' shirt and a pair of her panties. Well, maybe panties. The shirt hem was low enough to reach an inch or so below her groin. She was not wearing a bra however. The pinpoints sticking out of the shirt proclaimed that fact loudly. Dave smiled, setting the book aside and began to rise. Janice placed a soft hand on his chest and then settled herself in the lounger alongside him. She kissed him firmly on the cheek and temple, then rubbed the side of her face against his. They ended the nuzzling nose to nose, looking into each other's eyes. "Have a nice nap?" "Best sleep ever." Janice took another look around the room, taking in a deep breath. "God I love the smell of books." She snuggled in tighter. "Your profile mentioned reading as one of your pastimes, but nothing about having a full-on library in your house. I saw the smaller bookshelves in the entryway, but this really blew me away. And you have another bookshelf in the bedroom!" She stopped to deliver another steamy kiss. "It's hard sometimes finding other bookworms, except at work. I love it, but sometimes I just want to enjoy books, ya know?" "What is it you do? It feels like I should already know that, before we, um; " "Before I jumped you?" Dave nodded, then chuckled. "I just texted Becca this morning about being free talking with each other about sex, and here I am all tongue tied." Janice laughed with him. "Well, lover, I'm a librarian over at Cedar Valley." "Wow. Obviously a love of books could drive you into that career, but does it ever get to you? Make you want to get away from books?" Janice just stares at him. "I withdraw the question and humbly beg the court's forgiveness." She chuckled and kissed him on the nose. "How about you feed me something, I'm starving." "Starving, or starving?" Dave said, pushing lightly towards her with his pelvis along with the second iteration. After a hearty laugh, Janice said "Both, in that order. Give me the meat buster." Dave chortled while lifting her off him and setting her, standing on the floor. He stood beside her, giving her side eye as they walked side by side, holding hands, to the kitchen. "You give this appearance of coquettish innocence and then talk saucy enough to get me half hard before you remove so much as a single button. Is that due to the vaccine?" Janice rubbed first her shoulder, then her tit against his arm while looking up into his eyes. "Mostly just me, a few friends have said I give a reserved air until I'm with people I trust. The vaccine's effects might lower that veil a bit faster." A brief wash of pain passed over Janice's face. Dave didn't inquire, knowing it must be concern or mourning for friends no longer living. Dave took a quick look through the fridge. "We can do steak, mashed potatoes, and broccoli in about an hour, mostly because of the potatoes. Or we can do broccoli beef, probably about 45 minutes. Or we can do sloppy joes and chips in about twenty or twenty-five minutes." "Sloppy joes it is." Dave grabbed the thawed pound of ground beef, an onion, and a green bell pepper from the fridge. "Can you go into the pantry and grab a can of tomato sauce?" Dave said, while pointing to the pantry door. He remembered pointing it out this morning, but reinforcement usually helps assimilate new information. When Janice came back out, Dave had two skillets on the stove, and spices on the counter alongside a cutting board, knife and the two veggies. "Can I help?" "Sure, how's your knife skills?" "Well, I can cut a bitch if I have to; " Dave burst out laughing, lowering the knife to the counter just to be safe. He turned to Janice, giving her a fierce kiss. "Oh, I think I needed that." He wiped a few tears from his eyes and got back to dicing the pepper and onion. "Aright, how about you sauté these while I get the meat started?" With a light grimace, she asked "How?" "Toss 'em in the skillet on medium-low heat, about a tablespoon of butter" Dave looked at the veggies again, "maybe two, a couple shakes of salt. Keep the veggies in the butter, stirring a bit once in a while, until the onions start to look clear." Janice set to work sautéing, while Dave got the ground beef browning. He stepped aside from the stove to the adjacent counter to leave her more space. Dave poured 'eyeball' measured amounts of powdered garlic, paprika, cumin (very little), salt, and chili powder in to a small bowl and swirled the bowl to mix everything. When he leaned towards the stove to tend the beef, Janice leaned her head against his shoulder. "Comfy?" Janice nodded her head. Dave kissed her on the crown and she hummed. "Think you could watch both of these? Just make sure to turn the beef and keep chopping it into small bits so we get crumbles instead of big chunks. I'm going to toast some bread. Sorry, we don't have any buns." "That's okay, I know what buns I want to bite." Janice punctuated her statement with an impish wink. Dave just shook his head, grabbed the loaf out of the cabinet and got to work with the toaster. A few minutes later, Janice called out, "The beef is sizzling and sticking. I'm getting some brown in the bottom of the pan." "Perfect, pour in the veggies, then the tomato sauce." Seeing her do that he added, "Great, now sprinkle the spices over the top, as evenly as you can. Good, Now just stir that up a bit. Let it cook down some, boil off some of the liquid. Stir it every few minutes." Dave had finished the toast well before Janice had called out, but she seemed to be doing well so far and he wanted to let her get more comfortable in the kitchen. Sounded like something she wanted, based on what she'd said this morning. He did walk up behind her and give her a gentle, loose hug as she worked the skillet. Janice rested her head back on his chest. "This is so thoroughly domestic. Thank you." "You don't have to cook you know. There'll be three cooks in the family by tomorrow evening." "Yeah, and one is an eighteen year old girl who's fifteen years younger than me." "That teen girl has been through the wringer. She's shown some serious maturity. That's why I accepted her. She's the only reason I set my age range that low." "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound dismissive." Dave was quiet for a moment. "I'm sorry for coming off snappy. We lived in separate houses, but the four of us rode this mess out together." Janice nodded. "How about you tell me more over dinner. Starting tomorrow they're going to be family." With the meat reaching its final stage, Dave put a hot pad on the table for the skillet, and grabbed two open bags of chips from the cabinet. He'd already placed the toast on the table as soon a

Elizabeth Peek analyzes the rise in US unemployment to 4.6%, attributing it partly to increased labor participation rather than economic weakness. She highlights that private sector hiring remains positive while government payrolls shrink, and notes that data center construction for AI is driving a boom in the construction industry. 1900 COLUMBUS IHIO

C Judy Dempsey examines fears that Russia will shift military forces to the NATO border if a Ukraine peace deal is reached. She discusses reported US pressure on Kyiv to surrender the Donbas, noting that both Ukraine and the EU oppose such concessions due to sovereignty concerns and lack of security guarantees. Judy Dempsey addresses the industrial crisis in Germany, specifically the auto industry's struggle against Chinese electric vehicles. She notes that Chancellor Merz is avoiding necessary pension reforms due to political pressure, while the rise of the AfD and a shifting transatlantic relationship further complicate Germany's economic stability. Mary Kissel argues that Ukraine cannot surrender the Donbas without ironclad security guarantees, citing past broken agreements like the Budapest Memorandum. She validates Finnish and Baltic fears regarding Russian aggression and questions whether the Trump administration's business-centric approach can effectively manage Vladimir Putin's ideological brutality. Mary Kissel characterizes China's economy as collapsing under Xi Jinping's mismanagement. She highlights the plight of Jimmy Lai, a 78-year-old British citizen imprisoned in Hong Kong, and urges Western leaders to use economic leverage to demand his release as a prerequisite for any improved relations. Jonathan Schanzer critiques the slow Australian police response to the Bondi Beach attack, linking the shooters to ISIS training in the Philippines. He warns that the Albanese government's political "virtue signaling" regarding Palestine may have emboldened radicals, while noting Hezbollah is reconstituting its money and weapons pipelines in Lebanon. Jonathan Schanzer analyzes the "murky" killing of US servicemen in Syria, attributing it to jihadist elements within the government's security forces. He describes the situation in Gaza as a deadlock where Hamas remains armed because no international force, other than the unacceptable option of Turkey, is willing to intervene. Gregory Copley details how the Bondi Beach attackers trained in the Philippines' insurgent areas. While praising Australian intelligence agencies, he blames the Albanese government for encouraging anti-Israel sentiment, arguing this political stance has given license to radical groups and undermined public safety. Gregory Copley reflects on the 25-year war on terror, arguing that Western governments have become distracted. He contends that elevating terrorists like Bin Laden to "superpower" status was a strategic error, as the true objective of terrorism is to manipulate political narratives and induce paralysis through fear. Gregory Copley observes a 2025 shift toward nationalism and decisive leadership, asserting that globalism is declining. He notes that nuclear weapons are becoming "unusable" due to changing military doctrines and warns that Western democracies are sliding toward autocracy, drawing historical parallels to Oliver Cromwell's rise as Lord Protector. Gregory Copley reports on King Charles III's improving health and his unifying role within the Commonwealth. He contrasts the stability of the constitutional monarchy with the historical chaos of Cromwell's republic, suggesting the Crown remains a vital stabilizing force against political turmoil in the UK and its dominions. Joseph Sternberg challenges the Trump administration's antagonistic view of the EU, citing polls showing the institution remains popular among Europeans. He argues that US policy should not be based on the expectation of the EU's collapse, noting that the UK's exit was unique to its specific history and not a continental trend. Joseph Sternberg condemns the imprisonment of British citizen Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong as a failure of UKdiplomacy. He argues that Hong Kong's economic success cannot be separated from its political freedoms, warning that the erosion of the rule of law threatens the territory's viability as a business center. Joseph Postell discusses the 1983 INS v. Chadha decision, which eliminated the legislative veto. He explains how this ruling stripped Congress of its ability to check the executive branch, transforming a once-dominant legislature into a weak institution unable to reverse administrative decisions on issues like tariffs. Joseph Postell suggests correcting the Chadha precedent by adopting a view of severability where delegations of power are unconstitutional without the accompanying legislative veto. He notes that the War Powers Resolutionremains a rare exception where Congress still retains a mechanism to reverse executive actions via simple majority.

Tracking milder afternoons, When showers and a few storms return • Tracking a chilly morning with temperatures in the 30s in SE Georgia and 40s in Jacksonville. o 50s along the NE Florida coastline. • Some areas of patchy morning fog will burn off by 9 am. • Skies will be mostly cloudy today. • Highs will reach the upper 60s in Jacksonville and lower 70s southwest of Duval county. • Temperatures will rise to the mid 70s tomorrow. • We will track a few coastal AM showers tomorrow before a few more showers arrive, especially in the afternoon and evening. o A few storms are possible after sunset/at night. • We dry out for Friday with highs back down to the lower 70s. • This weekend will be dry and mild in the afternoons, chilly in the mornings. • Christmas week looks warmer than average across much of the lower 48. TODAY: Patchy AM fog. Cloudy. HIGH: 69 TONIGHT: Mostly cloudy. LOW: 56 THURSDAY: Coastal AM shower possible. Partly cloudy and warmer, a few showers. A storm at night. 56/76 FRIDAY: Turning mostly sunny. 58/71 SATURDAY: Mostly sunny. 43/72 SUNDAY: Mostly sunny. 45/72 MONDAY: Partly sunny and breezy. 50/70 TUESDAY: Partly sunny. 52/70

In this latest episode of Primordial: The Podcast, hosts Moose and Dewsbury once again stretch the definition of “content” to breaking point with possibly the most anticlimactic prize draw of all time. Thanks to GDPR, they can't even say who won a thing. Meh.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://links.primordialradio.com/listen⁠Thankfully they're joined by DJ/streamer/PRFam member Alex Walker aka. Runny to discuss his upcoming 24-hour streaming event to raise awareness for COPD. There will be horror games, challenges, hot sauce and even hotter leg wax, but it'll all be to raise some money for a great cause close to Alex's heart. Website - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://primordialradio.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://primordialradio.com/discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://links.primordialradio.com/youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify Playlist - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://links.primordialradio.com/spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SOCIALFacebook - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/primordialradio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/primordialradio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@primordialradio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠METAL FOR GOOD CHARITYCheck out our chosen charity, Metal For Good, and the great work they do - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://metalforgood.org⁠⁠⁠⁠

TODAY: Inland AM Frost. Partly cloudy. HIGH: 63 (50s in SE Georgia) TONIGHT: Partly cloudy and chilly. LOW: 45 WEDNESDAY: Mostly cloudy. 45/69 THURSDAY: Partly cloudy and warmer, a few showers at night. 52/73 FRIDAY: Partly sunny. 55/71 SATURDAY: Mostly sunny. 43/72 SUNDAY: Partly sunny. 48/75 MONDAY: Partly sunny. 53/70

TODAY: Windy and cold. Partly cloudy. HIGH: 51 (40s in SE Georgia) TONIGHT: Clear and chilly inland. Inland frost/light freeze. LOW: 34 (40s along the coast) TUESDAY: Inland frost/freeze. Mostly sunny and warmer. 34/63 WEDNESDAY: Mostly cloudy. 45/69 THURSDAY: Partly cloudy and warmer, isolated showers at night. 52/73 FRIDAY: Partly sunny. 55/71 SATURDAY: Mostly sunny. 46/72 SUNDAY: Partly cloudy. 53/75

MLB's annual Winter Meetings took place this week, but if you're a fan of the Toronto Blue Jays you can be forgiven if you missed it—or, at the very least, didn't quite get what all the hype was about. Partly, that's because the Jays didn't have to sweat their way through the festivities distractedly chasing ghosts while Plan B types fly off the board like they often do. And partly it's because their biggest move of the week—outside of some Ross Atkins unforced PR errors—was their surprising selection of Spencer Miles from the Giants in the Rule 5 draft.What a whirlwind! And this week we're talking about all of it—and how it has genuinely set up the rest of the offseason—and more!FOR AN AD-FREE VERSION OF THIS—AND EVERY—EPISODE, PLUS WEEKLY BONUS SHOWS, FIND US AT patreon.com/BJHH*APOLOGIES FOR THE MINOR AUDIO ISSUES!* Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chilly morning with a warming trend for the weekend • Tracking a dry morning commute today • Temperatures in the 30s and 40s this morning. • Some inland frost / light freeze west of Jacksonville this morning. • Highs in the mid to upper 60s this afternoon. • Dry for the weekend as temperatures make it back to the lower to mid 70s. • Strong cold front arrives Sunday PM and cools us down quite a bit by Monday AM and through the day. • The JAGS game will be dry and mild. The breeze picks up by the end of the game and into the evening. • Monday will be COLD and WINDY. o Lows in the 30s in SE Georgia and 30s in Jacksonville.  Feels like temps in the morning: mid to upper 20s o Highs in the lower to mid 50s in Jacksonville. TODAY: Inland AM freeze/frost. Sunny and mild afternoon. HIGH: 69 TONIGHT: Mostly clear. LOW: 44 SATURDAY: Mostly sunny. 44/74 SUNDAY: Partly sunny. Breezy late. 49/71 MONDAY: Inland AM freeze. Partly cloudy, windy and cold. 34/54 TUESDAY: Inland AM frost/freeze. Partly cloudy. 37/63 WEDNESDAY: Partly sunny. 45/69 THURSDAY: Partly sunny. 52/73

Hey weather enthusiasts! I'm Dustin Breeze, your AI meteorologist who brings cutting-edge forecasts with maximum personality! As an AI, I process data faster than you can say "atmospheric pressure"!Today in New York City, we've got a chilly adventure brewing! We're looking at temperatures dropping like they're auditioning for a winter dance competition. Currently, it's a brisk morning with west winds howling at 16 to 23 miles per hour - and let me tell you, these gusts are no joke! They'll be reaching up to 39 miles per hour, which means your hair will definitely know about it.Wind chill values are sitting between 20 and 30 degrees Fahrenheit, so bundle up, New York! It's going to feel like you're starring in your own personal Arctic movie. And speaking of movies, here's a weather pun for you: Why did the meteorologist bring an umbrella to the comedy show? Because they were expecting some precipitation of laughter!Now, let's dive into our Weather Playbook! Today's concept is wind chill - it's not just how cold it feels, but how quickly your body loses heat when wind moves across your skin. Think of it like nature's own refrigeration system, except you're the item being cooled down.Three-day forecast? I've got you covered! Today: Mostly sunny, high near 35 degrees Fahrenheit. Friday night: Partly cloudy, low around 29. Saturday: Mostly cloudy with a high near 39. And bonus alert - we might see some snow action Saturday night into Sunday!For all you Broadway and Central Park lovers, dress in layers today. Those west winds are going to make Manhattan feel like it's auditioning for a winter blockbuster!Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast for more meteorological madness! Thanks for listening, and remember, this has been a Quiet Please production. Want more? Check us out at quietplease.ai!This content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

It's time for one of our favourite episodes of the year! Yes, episode 187 is our annual FU to JKR, and as always we're reading something hella queer. This year the book of honour is The Holiday Trap by Roan Parrish. We spent basically the whole episode gushing about how cute this was. It's the perfect holiday romance read!Show NotesWe need to visit New Orleans immediately. It's calling to us!Couples reading books aloud to each other is goals. It is peak romance.A few moments in this reminded us of our spooky season read, Somebody is Walking on Your Grave by Mariana Enriquez. Partly because of Lafayette No. 1 and partly for...other reasons.And some of the quotes and insights from all our loveable characters had us thinking back to our last episode about David Lynch's book, Catching the Big Fish.Next episode is our Holiday Wrap! We're pretty excited to say goodbye to 2025. And to find out exactly how wild Jette's reading stats are this year.Other Books by Roan ParrishThe (Most Unusual) Haunting of Edgar LovejoyThe Remaking of Corbin Wale(and honestly so many more but those were the ones we mentioned)Other FUJK Episodes57: Cemetery Boys by Aiden Thomas83: A Lesson in Vengeance by Victoria Lee109: Pet by Akwaeke Emezi135: Pluralities by Avi Silver161: Rules for Ghosting by Shelly Jay Shore

My Honey Cousin: Part 2. Darren's Morning Shag. Based on a post by Guzzler 21. Listen to the Podcast at My First Time. All was dark. Darren felt his mouth was dry, he was waking up in a warm and sweaty cave. It took some seconds before his brain caught up to his senses. Last night's happenings slowly dawned on him. Apart from the darkness and the sweaty warm body he was pressed up against, his face was also feeling itself surrounded by Amy’s tangled hair. His body was slowly doing sensory checks and sending them back to his brain. As he slowly started sensing his own body, pressed tightly against his cousin’s back he quickly became aware of other things pressing against him. If he had blacked out, fainted, or just fallen asleep from exhaustion; was unclear. But that his cock was still impaled and bound tight into Cousin Amy, from behind; was now very clear. He felt himself only semi-hard. But the realization of having spent the whole night with his cock inside of the sweet, sexy cousin, got his blood rushing; and his meat twitching. Darren didn’t dare to move a muscle, apart from his cock muscles; but they were pulsing on their own accord. He could feel his cousin breathing slowly and calmly. She must still be asleep. Although he was still covered by her blankets and still wedged between the wall and his cousin, he could hear faint bird chirps from outside. He used his fingers to carefully peek out from under the blanket and could see that Amy’s bedroom was growing lighter from the morning twilight. All was still. Darren dared to pull the covering blanket away a little more and lift his head to look out. To his fright he saw aunt Lily there, still lying in the bed. Her large, luscious tits were exposed and Amy was still latched on to the closest of them. Amy was humming softly, and slowly suckling in her sleep. Every few seconds, she sucked at the nipple hidden in her wide open mouth. Only the very outer rim of aunt’s areola could be observed, outside of Amy’s wet lips. It was an extremely sensual sight. Darren’s cock was quickly turning into a raging boner. As it grew in length, it pressed deeper and deeper into Amy, who started to stir in her sleep. Her body was surely taking notice of the increasing impalement of her most secret, wet cave. As she stirred some, the suckling of her mother’s tits increased, in pace and force; so Darren snuck his head back under the covers and prayed to any gods out there, that he wouldn’t be detected when his aunt finally woke up. It had been hot under the blankets when he woke up, but now the heat was building even more under the covers where he was deeply embedded in his cousin Amy. His face was full of her wild, sandy blonde hair. It smelled like sex. Memory flashes from last night were coming back to him. Although their bodies weren’t moving, Darren could feel the pressure inside of his balls was building up. All his turgid cock now wanted to do, was to start moving; in and out of that glorious wet crevice, which it had spent the night in. He could easily feel that there would be no friction whatsoever. Amy’s cunt had acclimated to his cock during the night and she was filled with fluids. Both her own and his. It would be a dream to just pull out a little and slowly push himself back in. He fought the urge for a long time. There was no room whatsoever for him to pull back. The wall was pressed tightly against his back and ass, so instead he carefully moved a hand down to Amy’s nicely rounded ass and ever so slowly tried to push it away from himself. Half an inch; one inch; one and a half; Amy moved! Her body started the process of waking up. His pushing of her hips forward, had woken her enough to move. She instinctively pushed her ass back to where it had first been, and Darren's cock sunk back deep into her slippery, steaming hole. He now heard aunt Lily mumble, in her own fleeting sleep. Darren felt the tidal wave course through his thighs and up towards his rock hard phallus. He came, hard! He didn’t dare to move at all. Darren even held his breath and strangled a scream of lust, deep in his lungs. The only thing that moved was his pulsating cock, sending stream after stream, deep into the waking Amy impaled on his cock! Before Amy was even aware of it herself, her pussy contracted and opened in unison with Darren's cock pumping into her. Her womb was effectively milking his cock, trying to absorb every little ounce of semen shooting out from its swollen crown! Through his silent climax, Darren could feel Amy’s hand, in panic, probing for what was behind her! He felt her hand finally land on his hip, so close to where their young bodies were connected; and had been through all of the night. As Amy became clearly awake, Darren could feel her cunt, tightening around his rocket. As if to push him out. But he was stuck in, deep; and the wall behind him kept his cock deep inside of his wet cousin! He now heard aunt Lily waking up. At first, sleepy murmurs, then a shocked gasp! Probably as a kind of distraction, he heard Amy start to loudly suckle on her mothers tit! “Oh; I’m sorry honey! I must’ve fallen asleep!” she whispered in a rather hoarse voice. Amy just moaned and kept on suckling. Darren could only lay there under the covers, listening and imagining the images of Amy’s cute lips holding on to aunt Lily’s large, heavy tit. The bed jostled as aunt Lily stood up from it. Amy’s lips let go of her tit with a wet ‘plopp’ and Darrens, still pulsating, cock bounced ever so slightly in and out of his cousin's warm entrance! He bit his lip and worked hard to not let any sound slip from his lips. Amy on the other hand, let out a weary gasp as their sexes bounced into each other. But Lily was probably too newly awakened to notice anything strange. “I’ll just go and freshen up. Then I’ll check on Darren and make breakfast for you” she whispered and gave Amy what sounded like a kiss on the cheek before her footsteps could be heard on the rug as she left Amy’s bedroom. Amy pushed her behind hard against Darren's hips, sinking his leaking boner in even deeper! She buried her head in her pillow and let out a muffled groan! “Damn; have you been in me all night?” she then whispered in a baffled tone, still seeming to wake up from the deepest of sleeps. “I’m sorry;” was all that Darren could reply in a meek tone. Amy suddenly became very still. Darren could feel her entrance gripping and relaxing a few times; it felt excruciatingly erotic, but he himself didn’t dare to move at all. “Are you still coming into me right now; ?” she asked slowly, her body trying to feel all of his staff stuck inside of her. “I couldn’t help it; it came by itself;” was the weak excuse he could muster. Amy turned her head to him, she was smiling. She rocked her hips a little, her hole squeezing along his cock. “This is so hot;” she whispered and her tongue involuntarily licked her lips. Then she sprung into action! Morning Dash. “Quick! Mom is going to come and check on you! You have to get back to your room; NOW!” she hissed, panic in her voice. She moved forward from him, his still hard cock slipping out of its wet, nightly folds! He heard the faucet from the bathroom. Aunt Lily was in there. He didn’t have much time. He didn’t even have time to be embarrassed about Amy seeing his glistening hard-on, flailing about as he scurried out of bed. The back of his mind did manage to take a sneak peek at her gorgeous boobs as the blanket was tossed aside. But no time for any prolonged stares. Without a word, and as silent as a mouse he snuck out into the hallway, past the bathroom door, from where he could still hear the faucet running; and into his own room. With a move that would’ve made any ninja envious he flung himself into his untouched bed and under the covers just as he heard the faucet turn off and the bathroom door out in the hallway open. Darren was laying flat on his back in the most unnatural sleeping position to be imagined, and just the split second between the soft knock on his door, and his aunt opening it and coming in, he realized that his hard-on would be making a tent out of the covers. Too late now! He already heard his aunt's footsteps on the floor, entering his room. With closed eyes he again prayed to any gods, that his boner was not too visible in the morning dawn, flowing through the curtains in the room. Aunt Lily’s footsteps paused for a moment then he felt her sitting down softly on his bedside, her curvy hip pressing up against his own. He could feel the blanket pulling at its tent pole. She leaned in on him as he lay there, pretending to be fast asleep. He could feel her heavy tit softly land on his chest and her erect nipple was easily noticeable through the bedsheet over his chest. “Darren? It’s time to wake up” she whispered in the softest of motherly voices. Darren could feel her breath on his cheek, she was that close. She smelled of mint. It also dawned on him that the nipple now pressing against his chest was the one that Amy had been sucking on all through the night. This made his boner twitch. Hopefully aunt Lily wouldn’t see that from her position of leaning in over his face. Linton slowly opened one eye, playing groggy and sleepy. He saw Lily’s lovely brown eyes meeting his as she leaned in to kiss him on the forehead. Her lips were warm and soft. She held them to his forehead long enough for him to feel it thoroughly. His cock twitched again under the covers but he made sure to move his knee up and hopefully that would disguise his manly tent pole under the blanket. Aunt Lily sat up again, her firm tit leaving Darren's chest and gave him a loving look. “Come down for some breakfast when you’re ready;” and then she left. Darren couldn’t help but to watch her hips rolling under that flimsy robe she had on. As soon as the door closed, he wished that she had stayed longer. He took his time before coming downstairs. First he had to wait for his boner to soften. He thought about stroking one out, amazed that it was still hard after coming both last night and also this morning. But, again, this room gave him nowhere to hide tissue paper. So if he was to jerk off, it would have to be in the bathroom. He listened to Amy, up and washing in the bathroom. Then, when he was sure both his aunt and cousin were downstairs, he dared to sneak out to the bathroom, himself. His cock had now gone back to normal size. He was actually surprised to see it looking quite normal, after all it had been put through. But he washed it off quickly, under cold water and then changed to go downstairs where he could hear Amy and aunt Lily chatting in the kitchen. He had chosen his baggy, grey sweatpants and a worn out tee-shirt with some soft drink logo on it. He was suspecting that he might get hard again during the day, and the sweatpants were thick enough to hopefully hide any such stiffness from sight. Breakfast Protein Drinks. Down in the kitchen, the girls were in full swing, having breakfast. Amy sat at the table, munching on an egg sandwich and aunt Lily was busy by the sink. It was when Aunt Lily swung around to greet him that he was happy about his plan, wearing the sweatpants. Aunt Lily was wearing a thin white shirt dress. The long kind that looked like a common blouse, but went all the way down to her knees. It had buttons down to her front, but the top four buttons were left open, so her full tits swung enticingly under the thin fabric and the shirt opening showed almost the whole length of her cleavage. Her nipples were plainly visible, poking at the textile; and the darker areola around them could be distinguished through the thin white cotton. “Good morning handsome!” she said and Darren got embarrassed immediately! Partly because he couldn’t think of a single word to give back as a greeting; and partly because he felt how his stare and widening eyes must’ve been noticed by both Amy and Lily. Darren just mumbled and averted his eyes. Aunt Lily, of course, didn’t let him get off that easily. She hurled herself towards him and embraced him in a warm full body hug! It was pure bliss to be hugged by aunt Lily. At 6 foot 2, she was nearly 8 inches taller than him, and getting her boobs pressed against one’s face and her thighs pressed against his groin was unbearably arousing! He couldn't help but to close his eyes and revel in the feeling of being held to her bosom. His arm even caught one of her stiff nipples as he hugged her back. But when he opened his eyes they met Amy's, who was sitting at the table with a wide grin. He disengaged and felt his cheeks redden. He quickly sat himself down at the table, across from Amy who hadn’t left his gaze for a moment. It felt like she very well knew that his cock must’ve stiffened from that embrace. Or, he was just imagining things. Aunt Lily served up some sandwiches and juice for him. Only now, did Darren discovered how hungry he was! He stuffed his face and asked for more, always making sure to catch a glimpse of his aunt’s cleavage every time she turned around. Darren and Amy ate in silence, the radio playing in the background. Amy was all the time trying to catch Darren's eye. He had to work hard to not let her lock on. Darren was afraid that he’d blush, or stutter, or something else awkward; if he let her focus her eyes into his. It was clear she had mischievous thoughts. Images of how he’d been embedded deep into her wet folds, kept creeping up to the front of his mind. He was glad there was a kitchen table to hide his bulge under, now. Aunt Lily stood herself beside Amy across the table from Darren, “Amy, dear, your hair is a mess, darling. Let me sort that out for you” she said and started untangling Amy’s wild and unruly strands. As Darren looked up from the remains of his fourth sandwich, Amy caught his eye. She had a broad smile on her lips and slowly raised her hand towards her mothers tit. Darren wanted to look away, but couldn’t. He was hypnotized. Aunt Lily's tits jiggled and swayed, as she was pulling and shifting Amy’s hair, trying to get a braid started. Her large tits were just in face height of Amy as she was sat by the table. The big pokey nipples twice slid across Amy's nose. Very deliberately Amy took hold of Lily’s shirt cleavage and almost too slowly pulled it to the side, revealing her mother’s stiff nipple and dark areola. All the time her eyes held fast into Darren's glare at what was unfolding in front of him. “Ahmee, noht nuw..” Lily said, her mouth full of Amy’s hair, she was trying to organize. Lily had to let go of one of the chunks of hair to pull back the shirt, and cover her tit again. Amy was still keeping her eyes on Darren as she again, slowly let her hand come up to Lily’s jiggling boob. Once again, Darren got to see his aunt's full tit and succulent nipple bounce out from its cleavage. Lily spat out the hairs she had between her lips and sounded a bit annoyed. “Please love! Not now!” Lily pulled her shirt back over her enticing mound of boob flesh. “But mom; I want some;” Amy pleaded, still not taking her eyes off Listson's. “Please, Darren doesn't want to see this;” Lily sighed; but this time she let her tits stay exposed. Swaying just right by her daughter’s cute face. “You don’t mind, do you Darren?” Amy said in a beckoning, sad tone whilst she squeezed at her mother’s tit, pushing the nipple closer to her mouth. “Uhm.. no. No! I don’t.. ehm, mind..” Darren croaked, trying to sound blasé . Amy let go of Darren's eyes and turned her face to the huge tit just beside her face. She closed her eyes and planted her mouth lewdly over aunt Lily’s prominent nipple. Lily let out a small gasp, but quickly found herself and continued doing Amy’s hair. Darren was in awe. He found it impossible to look away! Amy had her lips around almost all of Lily’s areola, her fingers squeezing at the massive flesh around it. She looked like she’d never tasted anything as good as this, ever! Still focused on braiding Amy’s hair, Lily explained, “You know Darren, I’ve always given Amy of my milk. Most mothers stop early, but I never did. It's nourishing, and she’s almost never been sick in her life.” Amy turned her face to Darren, still holding Lily’s tit against her mouth, “And itsch schoo good;” she said with her mouth half full of white milk. A trickle of the milk streamed down her chin as she spoke. Amy quickly let her lips surround Lily’s nipple again and continued sucking, eyes closed. Darren was just sitting and nodding as a dumbfounded response to Lily’s explanation. He couldn’t think of having seen anything more sensual than this scene, that was now playing out in front of him. Even though time stood still, Lily somehow finished with Amy’s hair. She had made two braids on her. Each one on the top sides of her head. Like two pigtails, but in braid form. Amy looked so incredibly cute, and aunt Lily was now just caressing the back of her head as she kept on nursing from her. Darren wasn’t sure what to do. Inside of his sweatpants he had a hard-on so stiff, it it mimicked a mast of a British man o' war. He had already finished his sandwiches, and was just sipping slowly at his orange juice; wanting it never to end. He was afraid to break up this spectacular scene with any sudden moves. To his sorrow, but also relief, Amy finally let go of Lily’s tit and licked her lips. Aunt Lily's engorged nipple looked as big as a whole thumb! Amy smiled at Darren, and her eyes gave him the kind of look siblings give each other, when the other one didn’t get as nice of a christmas present as the first. Lily bent down and gave Amy a kiss on the lips before she pulled her shirt over her tit again, indicating that this moment was over. Tree House Tryst. “So, what are you guys gonna do today?” Lily asked, as she took some plates from the table over to the sink. Amy was looking intently as Darren; with that ever alluring smile of hers. “Maybe we’ll go and check out the old tree house” Amy said, still staring Darren in the eye. “Oh, that’s nice. You haven’t been up there in forever;” Lily replied, whilst pouring dishwater over the plates, a wet stain could be seen darkening the fabric over her nipple, which Amy had just been sucking on. “Come on Darren!” Amy grabbed his hand and yanked him with her. At 5 foot 10; She was bigger and heavier than him. Her curves gave her the weight and strength advantage over his own slender body, and he had no say in the matter. He trotted after her like a rag doll. Darren hadn’t noticed earlier, but Amy had a very short polka dotted skirt on. As she was running in front of him now, to the old tree house out back; he glimpsed her ass cheeks now and then, as her skirt flapped up and down. Either she was wearing minimal string panties, or nothing at all, underneath. Up top; she had a tight, yellow tee-shirt, that did nothing to disguise her lovely bra-less tits. At the base of the old oak, in which the tree house was set, Darren got the answer to what Amy was wearing underneath; or rather, what she was not wearing. She climbed up before him, and he got a full view of her nakedness under that little skirt. His cock had been hard since the breakfast table and was not feeling like softening any time soon. He was only a little worried about climbing, and had to tear his gaze away from Amy’s nude pussy, to check that he wouldn't snag his boner on the old wooden planks that were nailed to the tree as a kind of ladder. He couldn’t remember the last time he’d been up in that tree house. It must’ve been many years ago. Then, he and Amy would pretend they were in a crows nest on a pirate ship, looking for land or fighting off other pirates, trying to get at them. Although the nails in the planks were much more rusty than he remembered, it was still a sturdy build. The walls were made out of all kinds of planks from some barn house nearby, there was a square hole in the floor of it that you climbed up through from the plank-ladder nailed to the tree trunk. The excitement he remembered when climbing up to this tree house, was just as prominent now as then, but for totally different reasons. As he got close to the entrance in the tree house floor he looked up again and saw Amy’s strong, naked legs slip through the hole and to the side. Darren had no idea of what would happen up there, but he knew it would be exciting! It was secluded and high up. It would only be the two of them. He kind of regretted that he had chosen to wear his boxer briefs under his sweat pants now. Amy had clearly planned ahead and chosen ‘easy access’, instead. But, she didn’t have a raging boner to hide away. Girls have it so easy. They can easily get away with being horny in front of others and no one would know, unless you got to feel them between their legs. Darren's mind was racing! Visions of his naked cousin on the bed last night, floated past his mind's eye as he finally managed to crawl up and into the tree house. Amy sat in the corner of the small space, leaning against the wooden boards serving as a wall behind her. She had her knees up and legs slightly parted, but was holding her skirt down over her crotch so her nakedness under there couldn’t be seen. She had her mischievous smile on again. Since there was a plank roof on top of the tree house, she was a bit shadowed, which made her blue eyes look gleaming. “We haven’t been up here in a long time;” Amy said. “Yeah, I can’t remember the last time even” Darren lied. “You were very good with your tongue last night;” It was subtle, but Darren noticed how the hand she was pressing down her skirt with was also slowly moving around, pressing against her crotch. Both the sight of her hand and the words, got him stumped again, “Ehm.” “I know we’ve just had breakfast, and I didn’t bring any honey; but; maybe you’d like to taste me without?” Amy said and almost looked a bit shy for once. This was really not Darren’s area of expertise, and he had no plan or tactic. But his libido answered for him, “Of course!” Whatever he did last night seemed to work, so he was confident that he could make it work again. His luscious cousin was sitting on an old, ragged seat cushion, which she scooted herself forward on, towards Darren who was kneeling in front of her. As she slid forward she let go of her skirt and let her knees shift apart more. It was an incredible sight! Last night he’d not really been able to get a good look. Amy’s bedroom had been dim. Only her bed lamp had been shining softly. And to be honest, Darren had been way too aroused, shocked and excited to imbibe any details his eyes might have had a chance to see. But now; Although the planks shaded her a bit, it was daylight. She was right in front of him. It was right in front of him. It was strange and immensely erotic at the same time. “I’ve shaven it bare;” Amy said softly, as if to get his approval. Being a guy in his late teens, his reference of understanding was of course always infused with a lot of those kinds of ‘sex ads in the back of trashy news stand publications. But here he was; right in front of a real pussy. Her pussy was like a small swollen mound, with a thin slit going down the middle of it. Her slit was clearly wet and between her outer pussy lips, a hint of more folds could be seen. Her wetness showed, even on the sides of her slit. It was all the same cute pinkish skin color as the beautiful, smooth thighs framing it in. After the first amazement had been overcome, Darren’s eyes desperately searched for her clitoris. He didn’t know much about women, but this he knew! And since he was momentarily going to put his mouth and tongue into that alluring crevice, he really wanted to find her most sensitive spot. He got a bit nervous when he couldn’t easily spot it. On erotic stories he’d read, there was always a little bulb at the top of the slit, but Amy had none. Maybe the claims weren’t all that realistic, after all. He caught himself staring too intently, and when he looked up at Amy he could see that she was nervous too. She was biting her lower lip in anticipation. Her eyes’ looked bigger and were begging for appreciation. Darren made himself brave and leaned in on his elbows. Had he not been totally preoccupied by his own horniness, he would have understood that this was an extremely uncomfortable position for him. But that was nothing that his body was able to convince his mind of, right now. As he lowered his head, towards her lusty cunt lips ;Amy saw that he wouldn’t really reach all the way down while still sitting crouched on his knees. So, instead she shifted, folding her legs in under her and also now kneeling wide on the bench, making her pussy come up a bit higher towards his face. Darren was transfixed watching her little pussy writhe as she moved. Her pussy lips sliding against each other and some more wetness being pressed out of the soaking, pink slit between them. As she settled, his mouth was now just lined up with her cunt. He could feel the warmth of it radiating on his lips. He felt himself breathing heavily; Tentatively his tongue probed, he felt her fresh womanly taste in all of his body, even though only the tip of his tongue had touched her skin. Amy inhaled sharply, which gave Darren new courage. Again he let his tongue touch her. More of it this time. He could feel her thighs stiffen up. Darren quickly learned what effect his tongue had on Amy. He licked her; in longer and longer strokes, very much enjoying the effect it had on his horny cousin. She tasted heavenly! He had no idea of how a woman should taste, but he was sure he liked the taste of Amy’s wet pussy! Somehow it tasted fresh, even though it was so warm! Darren soon got into a rhythm, lapping at Amy like a dog in heat. Longer and longer licks. As his confidence grew, he started mixing it up a little. Sometimes, long and fast strokes with his tongue, sometimes short and slow. As his own arousal grew, he pressed his tongue deeper and deeper into her folds. His nose and chin, were now also part of the connection to her slippery, smooth skin. Amy’s lower body was now trembling, and no coherent sounds were coming from her. Her inner thighs sometimes spasmed and pressed against his ears, only to again spread out wide, letting his mouth and tongue come deeper into her slit. Now and then his tongue would find, what he assumed, to be Amy's clit. Somewhere at the top of her slit was an illusive little part of stiffer flesh that really sent her off, whenever his tongue would pass over it. But just as he thought he knew where it was, his tongue failed to thrash at it again. But Amy seemed to love it, no matter where he was licking at, so Darren just continued to explore her as much as he could. “Amy? Are you up there?” The sound of aunt Lily’s voice from below the tree house rang out like a bell whistle in a library! Amy’s body froze and went still as night! Darren still had his face pressed in between her legs and stopped in mid-lick. His tongue still in-bedded in her folds: “Yeah?” Amy croaked with the voice of someone who’s not used her voice for speaking in a long time. “Are you alright? Is Darren up there with you?” Darren felt that the very tip of his tongue was placed tight at the entrance of Amy’s twitching hole in there. Her fluids pooling on his tongue. Amy grabbed the hair on the back of Darren's head. “I’m fine. Darren went to the pond;” she said. Her voice was still a bit shaky and flustered. Darren let the tip of his tongue make its way in through Amy’s, now twitching, hole. “Should I come up?” Lily asked with the worried tone of a mother who wants to investigate. “No!” Amy answered and then hissed a whispering ‘no’ also to Darren. “I can’t talk to you when you’re hiding;” Lily complained from down there at the bottom of the tree. Amy had a firm grip of Darren’s head and pressed it tight against her pussy as she rose up on her knees, forcing his head to follow along. To keep his balance, and not get his hair torn off, Darren grabbed Amy’s thighs and let himself fall backwards as she moved forward on her knees. With his mouth still connected to her sopping pussy, and his head pressed hard between her legs, Amy moved forward to where the wall had a sawed up opening, like a window and poked her head out. She let go of Darren's hair, but he did not let go of her thighs and kept his face planted on her wet sex. “Ah, there you are;” Lily said with true relief. Darren started licking again; “What do you, ugh; want mom?” Amy tried to sound normal, but when Darren's eager tongue teased the right spots she didn’t seem to be able to control her voice in full. Darren of course didn’t want to be found out by his shapely aunt, but he had never seen her climb up to the tree house and felt quite confident that she wouldn’t come up. Also, Amy had already said he wasn’t up there, so; he felt well hidden. But seeing how much effect his tongue had on Amy made him feel powerful. She was the older of them and had always been the dominant one. Now she was at his mercy for once. Darren was intensely aroused at the situation she was in now. Him eating her out whilst she had to play it cool in front of her mother. He got back to his rhythm of licking and even added some sucking here and there. He would get as much of her swollen pussy in his mouth as possible and suck it into his mouth, while his tongue flicked at wherever that clit was hiding at the moment. “Well; I was wondering; “ aunt Lily was in no rush. Amy was breathing heavily and whimpering softly. There was no way Lily could hear her, but Darren did! “Do you think Darren was weirded out by; you drinking from me this morning?” “No mom. You know how guys are. He probably loved to see your boob;” Amy went up an octave in both sound and frequency on that last word. Darren had made another lunge upward with his tongue. Again trying to press it as far up into her as humanly possible. He felt her wetness now running down his cheeks. Her hips and thighs were quivering. “I know, but;” Darren had found his pace now. His tongue pressing into Amy’s tight pussy hole, sliding back out and pressing in again. He was actually tongue fucking her. A faint sloshing sound could be heard by anyone inside of the tree house. “He’s not used to stuff like that;” Lily continued, “I think I’ll talk to him about it. Maybe explain it better.” “Uh umm.” Amy nodded down the hole, but her eyes were closed and her lips were hanging open. She felt herself building up to something now. Darren’s relentless tongue, forming a spearhead and penetrating her over and over again, his hands tightly gripping around her thighs. She felt his chin pressing against her ass hole. It was too much! Amy climaxed violently. Well, her face and arms were perched on the sawed out window, she kept them quiet still. She gritted her teeth and her eyes were pressed shut from the energy it took to not let it show to Lily and at the same time having her body throw her into the best orgasm she’d ever had! A gush of hot fluids sprayed Darren’s mouth as Amy’s hole tightened around his intruding tongue! Her lower body shuddered and Darren pulled his face away from her pussy in pure surprise! Another gush splashed against his face and still open mouth! Darren’s grip of her thighs loosened and his head fell back against the wooden floor! With the third out-pour from Amy’s cunt, she couldn’t help but to let out a licentious groan from between her clenched teeth. Darren just laid there, drenched a third time. His eyes blinking in amazement at what he had managed to do to his sexy cousin! She had actually squirted! He had made her cum so hard that she squirted! This was something he’d only ever heard about in exaggerated porn stories. Darren’s thought was, that squirting is something that only happens to a handful of women, ever. And even then, it just happens when the full moon coincides with a leap year! Now he was an actual part of that odd fantasy! He felt like the star of an Asian porn flick. He felt so exceptionally proud! He made Amy come to that highest degree! “Hey! Are you listening? Amy!” Lily’s voice was only a background disturbance in the world Darren was now in. He was lying on the hard wooden floor with Amy above his face. She was raised up on her knees and he had a clear view right up her dotted skirt. Her pussy literally dripping. The taste and smell of her all over his face. He felt her juices still trickling down his cheeks and onto his neck. He saw her pussy contracting and relaxing at a fast pace and her wet thighs twitch in unison. With very contraction her nethers made a stream of more fluids roll down along the inside of her thigh! Damn! Amy was still coming! Darren was so hypnotized that he didn’t even think about his own throbbing meat. “Sorry; what were you saying mom?” Aunt Lily started again, with the annoyed tone of someone who has to repeat themselves, “I said; there is an old matinee showing soon on the tv. The old musical, State Fair; will be on in about 30 minutes. Maybe you can find Darren and I’ll make you some milkshakes?” It was now not a question; as it might have been the first time around. “Oh, that; that sounds great, mom;” Amy replied with the tone of someone who had just slept after a marathon. “Okay, then. See you inside.” Lily left back towards the house. Amy’s thighs had now relaxed, but her pussy was still making involuntary movements up there, over Darren's drenched and astounded face. As her mother left, Amy leaned back in from the tree house entrance. She slowly sat herself down on Darren’s chest. He felt his shirt getting thoroughly soaked as she let her weight press her ravished pussy lips onto him. As she looked down on him she gave him a tired smile. Her eyes only half open. “God damn; cuz! That was; that was amazing!” Amy wiped a strand of his wet hair from his forehead. Darren now felt a bit awkward. The earlier feeling of being in control, and a true sex god; drained away from him as he was now held down by Amy sitting on his chest. Looking down, her skirt was crunched up around her waist and he could see the top of her slit against his tee-shirt, her wet thighs down his sides and her body towering over him. Her nipples were threatening to poke holes in her thin tee. “Sorry if I made you squirt.” Darren tried. He wasn’t, of course. But it felt better to be humble and get praise instead of the opposite. Also, he was again the younger of the two; and Amy was the one who seemed to be in charge. “Oh. no, no, no; don’t be! That was the best; ever. I didn’t even know I was a squirter; Until now.” She sat there, on him, and steadied her breathing for a while before she spoke again. “Mom said the musical, State Fair, will be on TV. We should see; ” Darren had just been reveling at the feeling of Amy’s wet snatch, pressing down on his chest and nodded. He would’ve agreed to anything Amy had said, anyway. Amy climbed off of him and started straightening out her clothes. Darren sat up and could now feel really how wet she’d made him. His tee-shirt was clinging to him. The whole front of it was soaked and he felt a trickle of Amy’s juices down his neck as he rose to a sitting position. Amy laughed, “Look at you! We really need to dry you off.” After Amy had peeked out, making sure that Lily wouldn’t happen to see them, they climbed down from the tree house and made their way over to the barn. The excited rush there, made it feel almost like the times they’d snuck around when they were little, and hiding from aunt Lily. Barn Tryst. The barn was pretty big, but now only housed a few chickens and two cows. This time of day, all the animals were out and about, somewhere on the lands, so it was quiet. Amy helped Darren to wrangle his wet shirt off and wiped him down with a towel she’d found on a hook. “Man, I came a lot;” she said, with a hint of pride as she demonstratively rung out his shirt between her hands. Some drops actually came out of it, flowing over her knuckles. “Do I taste good?” she asked, as she licked the upper part of her hand with a sexy grin? “Very;” Darren nodded, and felt his cheeks blush. It felt like a dream he'd just had, and now that they were out in the daylight, it felt like it might have just been a fantasy. Now he felt a bit out of place. He was standing there, shirtless, with a hard on, in his pants as his super hot cousin was licking her own juices off her hand, and asking him what she tastes like! 'You couldn’t even write stuff like this,' he thought to himself. But that thought also took away from the fact, of what he’d just experienced. How could this ever be true?! And what now? He didn’t have to wonder for long, about that last thought; as Amy grabbed his crotch. There was no hiding that he was hard. Hard as hell. “Poor you! You didn’t get anything from me;” Amy said, with puppy dog eyes and playful sorrow, “Well. Maybe now I can get to see what you taste like?” Darren’s head was spinning! In reality, he knew exactly what she meant and insinuated. But this was far beyond his wildest dreams! Having his luscious, sweet Amy suck him off?! That would be so; “It’s starting!” Lily’s shout broke his soaring thought! The Matinee Movie. Aunt Lily was standing on the porch calling out to them, that the movie was starting. Amy made a sad face, but then smiled and rushed down to the house. Darren made a much slower walk, trying to walk in a way so that his hard-on wouldn’t show. Having his hands in his pockets helped. Of course, his 'crotch rocket' was very sensitive to the touch, and it did not let him relax. While he was still a bit away from the farm house, he saw Amy hug aunt Lily, as they went into the house. Darren realized he was still bare-chested and as he came to the open door, he heard that aunt Lily was in the kitchen. So he made a dash upstairs, and changed into a dry tee-shirt, before making his way down to the living room from where he could hear the movie playing. It was an old classic. He and Amy had watched it nearly 10 years ago. Amy was on the sofa under the huge quilt that was usually draped over it. She gave Darren a sly smile and beckoned him to join her under the quilt. Darren sat down on her left, close to the sofa's armrest. Amy scooted herself close to him and put the quilt over them both, so only their heads were uncovered. Amy slouched low, and had her feet up, on the ottoman Feeling her curvy body pressing into his side was very cozy, and Darren had trouble focusing on the film. He had, of course; seen this movie a million times, so it was much more enjoyable to relish in the feeling of Amy’s body so close beside him. The classic movie did little to distract his arousal, Even the lead actress, Vivian Blaine, looked very much like cousin Amy, if Amy's hair wasn't in braids. Darren held his breath, gathered some courage, and caressed her arm under the quilt. Amy identified with the young Emily Edwards in the movie. A debutante, Emily desires the affections of the strapping young man who comes to town. But Cousin Amy is bolder and more daring than the heroine of the musical. Spurred on by Darren's compliance, she let out a soft sigh, while still watching the TV. This felt so good. Like if they were boyfriend and girlfriend, cuddling up to a movie together. It was really quite romantic. The romance quickly changed to sensuality, as Amy took hold of his hand and forcefully steered it over to her tit. It was an awkward angle for his hand when Amy pressed his palm over her luscious boob. But Darren was not about to complain. She slowly rubbed his hand against her tit. Darren could feel her hardened nipple through the fabric of her tee-shirt. She still had her gaze fixed on the television, like nothing special was happening under their blanket. This was so much better than the film. Amy would taunt the movie's heroine for her lack of courage and assertiveness to initiate a heated interlude. Then Darren felt her moving his hand downward, over her belly. He tried to breathe normally, but all of his insides were quivering with sex-infused joy! Just as he had hoped, in silence, she led his palm down to between her legs. She had already flipped up her skirt beforehand so Darren could feel the smooth, shaven skin of her mound slowly pass under his palm. His fingers reached her slit and there she planted his hand firmly. Not that Darren wanted to pull it away, but if he had wanted to, he was not sure he would’ve been able to. Amy was pretty strong, actually. His middle finger was placed right over Amy’s slit. He felt the wetness in there, as she pressed his finger in between her slippery labia. They were both using all their energy to breathe calmly, but Darren could feel the tenseness of her body. She dragged his hand slowly up and down along her soaked cunt, and Darren let her guide him. He could hear her almost silent, sudden inhalations, when his finger hit ‘the spot’. Her thighs stiffened under the quilt and around his hand. It was heavenly to feel her most secret place, all while the old familiar movie played in the background. Not that Darren needed any more excitement, but it came anyway; when he felt Amy’s left hand make its way over his hip and down to the hem of his sweatpants! He felt her fingers tugging at the knot on them. The back of her hand brushed against his rock hard cock tenting his pants below. Darren felt his nostrils flaring and he could hear his own heartbeat inside of his ears! With his free left hand under the quilt, he helped Amy loosen the knot and her hand soon slid in under his sweatpants. A short sting as her fingernail was the first to find his hard cock, but that quickly shifted to the very exciting feeling of her fingertips slowly exploring him around the base of his erection. Darren was now no longer breathing calmly anymore. Having his hand over Amy’s pussy mound with one finger deeply embedded between her folds, and her nimble fingers now slowly caressing his rock hard cock was sending erotic chills all through his spine. Above the big quilt, both of them were still ‘just’ looking at the tv-screen. As Darren snuck a glance, he was impressed at how Amy was keeping such a straight face. Wasn’t she also enjoying this? But every once in a while he could see the tiniest of her face muscles twitch a little as his finger slowly pressed and slipped around in her slit. He tried to mimic her coolness and made it so his face would show as little reaction as possible. Unexpectedly her right hand quickly left his where it was holding down his right hand over her pussy. It was aunt Lily who had entered the room. “Here you go;” she chimed, carrying two strawberry milkshakes for them. Aunt Lily was proud of her milkshakes, as she well should be. They were always perfectly smooth and just the right amount of sweetness. They were a lot better than the ones you get in any restaurant Darren had ever been to. Darren didn’t really keep his hand on Amy’s pussy on purpose. He was just too surprised to react normally. He felt Amy’s thighs shuffle a little and she pulled the quilt up more over herself, as if to cover the outline of his right arm, which was laying down over her belly. There was of course, no way aunt Lily could’ve seen any of the lewd things that were going on under there, but her reaction was understandable. Amy received the milkshake with her now free hand and Lily leaned in and gave her a short hug, still holding Darren’s milkshake. He felt Amy’s hand now taking a grip around the base of his cock. He gritted his teeth in pleasure, but let nothing show on his face. Aunt Lily then made her way over to Darren with the other glass of milkshake. Darren pulled his left hand out from under the protective covering and took it. The glass was cold and heavy. It was adorned with whipped cream on top and a straw with that classical red and white swirl pattern around it. Lily leaned in on him and gave him a kiss on the cheek, “It’s so nice to have you here;” she whispered warmly. As she leaned in, her heavy tits pressed up against his chest. Even through the quilt he could feel her stiff nipples. The nipples Amy had been sucking on, only this morning. He also felt Amy’s grip around his cock tighten, but managed not to give himself away! As aunt Lily stood back up, he could feel Amy’s hand slowly sliding its way up the length of his pole. He gave Lily a polite smile, hoping his blushing cheeks wouldn’t give him away. The events in the tree house had made his precum pretty prominent the last hour. He had been worried it might even soak through his sweat pants. His underwear was stained, but the sweat pants were thick enough to not let anything seep through. But his swollen crown was, of course drenched in the slippery stuff, and Amy’s thumb made good use of that. She let it circle over and around his glans, ever so slowly. Luckily, aunt Lily turned away from him; otherwise she’d surely see his head jerk back, from the incredible feeling of Amy’s fingers massaging the top of his pulsating cock! A quick glance at Amy, told him that she was displaying an evil smirk. She knew what she was doing, and putting him through; in front of his aunt, her own mother! Did she want to get caught? A streak of vengefulness ran through him, and he quickly let his middle finger plunge deep into Amy’s wet cunt hole! It was so slippery that there was almost no resistance. Probably, she wasn’t ready for it, because her mouth opened wide and she let out a silent gasp. He could feel her entrance tighten around his finger. But it was too late, it was already deeply inserted in her! The feeling of his finger inside of his hot cousin, almost made him forget the pleasure of her hand on his own love parts, but Amy’s thumb movements now became more deliberate. As she spread out his precum more and more over his shaft, she also started stroking it in longer and longer motions. Still in slow motion though, so no movement could be seen from outside of the quilt. Darren thought that aunt Lily would leave and go back out into the kitchen, or something. To his horror she moved over to Amy’s other side, and made herself comfortable on the sofa, instead! The big sofa was for three people, but pretty large. Darren and Amy were scrunched up to one side so Lily decided that she could lay down on the 1 1⁄2 seats that were left over, a little closer to the television. To his dread, and in some kind of slow motion he could only watch as his sexy aunt took a big soft sofa pillow, then laid it over Amy’s lap, and his arm. Lily laid her head down on it. His arm was now locked in place under her pillow, his finger still inserted into Amy! He froze his movements for a bit, then bravely pressed his impaling middle finger hard against Amy's G-spot. Amy's mouth again opened wide, but she held her breathe until the urge to scream had become controllable. Darren thought it would compel Amy to retreat from her torrid assault on his cock tip. Amy did not. In a slow unrelenting pace, she kept on stroking his cock, ever so slowly. Darren could not believe what was happening! He finally decided to pause his torturing of Amy's G-spot. Would Cousin Amy honor the truce? Aunt Lily pretended to be engaged in the film, asking questions about whatever was on the screen, “Is that the prize pig they're entering in the contest?” or “Has the scene of the state fair beauty pageant been already?” Every time she talked, her head moved and Darren's finger in Amy moved also! Amy tried to answer as casually as she could, but Darren could easily hear that her voice sounded strained and trembling. With Amy still stroking him slowly, he felt like he was losing control again. Her message was clear. The ceasefire was rejected. It was on! He found that he could move his middle finger a little; and bend it inside her cunt! This way his arm could be totally still and Aunt Lily wouldn’t notice. Amy noticed though! Her breathing was heavier and when faint sloshing sounds from between her legs could be heard, she started slurping loudly on her milkshake. It became like some kind of silent competition between them now. Who could make the other one cum first! Darren was at a disadvantage. He had no idea there even was such a thing as a G-spot! And he could only move his middle finger, and not very much. He tried different ways. Pushing it in and out of her, moving it from side to side; But from what he could tell on Amy´s breathing, the best effect was when he curled it upwards and sort of pressed against the roof of her tunnel! Amy had more freedom to move though. She still kept her stroking slow, but firm and steady. Amy was also lacking insight on Darren's most sensitive zones. But when her thumb gently stroked the underside of his cock tip, Darren gritted his teeth. Darren felt things well up inside of him. He nudged Amy with his shoulder and tried to make a face that would make her understand that he couldn’t hold it anymore! Amy just grinned, slurping loudly on the straw in her mouth! Darren let his head fall back and stopped fighting it! He couldn’t. The geyser in him was stronger! He felt Amy pull her hand up over the top of his cock as he came. Again, and again. His mind groaned in pleasure. He could only hope that his mouth didn’t do the same. Amy was cupping her hand around the head of his throbbing cock, trying to catch as much of his seed as possible, in it. When he calmed down, she snuck her hand out from under the blanket. Darren tried to read her expression as she looked at the fluids, collected in her palm, was it astoundment, he detected? Hard to say. Lily stirred on the pillow, on Amy's lap; again pressing down on Darren's hand, which was pressed on Amy's cunt, with his middle finger impaled inside of her. She quickly wiped her hand against the top rim of her milkshake glass, to get as much of it off as possible. Thick globules of Darren’s cum ran down on the inside of the glass. Lily sat up and turned to Amy, “It seems you're not going to finish your milkshake darling.” “Oh? Eh;” Amy stuttered. She felt Darren's finger in her move, as Lily shifted from her position on the sofa. “That’s alright,” Aunt Lily assured her. “I’ll finish the rest;” she said, and took the glass from her daughter. Darren was dumbstruck as he watched his aunt open her red lips and see her pink, sexy tongue lick the rim of the glass, scooping up the chilled thick cum collected there. Then she sucked in the straw between her lips, and slurped up some of the milkshake; as she rose up from the sofa. Both Amy and Darren just stared at her, with blank faces; as she turned and went to the kitchen; happily slurping up the rest of Amy’s milkshake and all of the cum in it. “Damn, Darren! Mom got to taste you before I did!” Amy whispered when aunt Lily was out of earshot. She licked her palm and started sucking on her fingers. Darren could still only sit there, mouth wide open, not believing what his eyes saw! When Amy had licked her hand clean, she again snuck it in under the quilt and found Darren’s now softening cock. She held it in a soft grip and leaned her head on his shoulder, turning her eyes back to the movie. Darren leaned back, forgetting that his hand was still on her pussy and his finger inside of that wet, warm canal. When he remembered, and moved his finger a little, Amy whispered, “Shush; just leave it still. Otherwise I’m gonna soak all of mom’s sofa cushions. She snuck her other hand under and laid it firmly on his hand, between her thighs. Darren did as he was told, and just let it be there, motionless. It was incredibly cozy, in an erotic way. They both held on to each other's heated sexes, peacefully breathing and just letting the wonderful glow burn slowly inside of them. When the film finally finished, they let each other go. Darren couldn’t help but to put his middle finger in his mouth and give off a satisfied ‘Hmm..’. Amy smiled, “There is more where that came from;” and gave him a wink. As she was straightening out the quilt that had protected them throughout, they both saw a large wet stain, shaped like Amy’s ass cheeks and thighs on the sofa cushion she’d been sitting on! Amy gave off a worried curse word and quickly turned the cushion over and then covered the sofa with the quilt. “Maybe we should both change some clothes;” she smiled, and tugged down on her short skirt hem. It was clearly also wet from her fluids; and Darren agreed. As they went upstairs to their rooms, Lily called to them from the kitchen, “Lunch will be ready shortly!” Darren rummaged through his bag of clothes. His sweatpants needed changing. They were drenched with his own jizz. Although Amy had caught a lot of it with her hand, just as much had run down along his cock and was then soaked up by his think fleece sweatpants. It again dawned on him that his buxom aunt had actually licked and drank his cum! She didn’t know it, but just the thought of some of him entering her mouth; him being swallowed by his buxom sexy milf auntie. He felt his cock twitching again, and had to fight the thoughts! Instead of throwing his sweatpants in the hamper, he hung them on the lampshade to dry and decided to go commando with a clean pair of pants. To be continued. Based on a post by Guzzler 21, for Sex Stories.

 If you're a scientist, and you apply for federal research funding, you'll ask for a specific dollar amount. Let's say you're asking for a million-dollar grant. Your grant covers the direct costs, things like the salaries of the researchers that you're paying. If you get that grant, your university might get an extra $500,000. That money is called “indirect costs,” but think of it as overhead: that money goes to lab space, to shared equipment, and so on.This is the system we've used to fund American research infrastructure for more than 60 years. But earlier this year, the Trump administration proposed capping these payments at just 15% of direct costs, way lower than current indirect cost rates. There are legal questions about whether the admin can do that. But if it does, it would force universities to fundamentally rethink how they do science.The indirect costs system is pretty opaque from the outside. Is the admin right to try and slash these indirect costs? Where does all that money go? And if we want to change how we fund research overhead, what are the alternatives? How do you design a research system to incentivize the research you actually wanna see in the world?I'm joined today by Pierre Azoulay from MIT Sloan and Dan Gross from Duke's Fuqua School of Business. Together with Bhaven Sampat at Johns Hopkins, they conducted the first comprehensive empirical study of how indirect costs actually work. Earlier this year, I worked with them to write up that study as a more accessible policy brief for IFP. They've assembled data on over 350 research institutions, and they found some striking results. While negotiated rates often exceed 50-60%, universities actually receive much less, due to built-in caps and exclusions.Moreover, the institutions that would be hit hardest by proposed cuts are those whose research most often leads to new drugs and commercial breakthroughs.Thanks to Katerina Barton, Harry Fletcher-Wood, and Inder Lohla for their help with this episode, and to Beez for her help on the charts.Let's say I'm a researcher at a university and I apply for a federal grant. I'm looking at cancer cells in mice. It will cost me $1 million to do that research — to pay grad students, to buy mice and test tubes. I apply for a grant from the National Institutes of Health, or NIH. Where do indirect costs come in?Dan Gross: Research generally incurs two categories of costs, much as business operations do.* Direct or variable costs are typically project-specific; they include salaries and consumable supplies.* Indirect or fixed costs are not as easily assigned to any particular project. [They include] things like lab space, data and computing resources, biosecurity, keeping the lights on and the buildings cooled and heated — even complying with the regulatory requirements the federal government imposes on researchers. They are the overhead costs of doing research.Pierre Azoulay: You will use those grad students, mice, and test tubes, the direct costs. But you're also using the lab space. You may be using a shared facility where the mice are kept and fed. Pieces of large equipment are shared by many other people to conduct experiments. So those are fixed costs from the standpoint of your research project.Dan: Indirect Cost Recovery (ICR) is how the federal government has been paying for the fixed cost of research for the past 60 years. This has been done by paying universities institution-specific fixed percentages on top of the direct cost of the research. That's the indirect cost rate. That rate is negotiated by institutions, typically every two to four years, supported by several hundred pages of documentation around its incurred costs over the recent funding cycle.The idea is to compensate federally funded researchers for the investments, infrastructure, and overhead expenses related to the research they perform for the government. Without that funding, universities would have to pay those costs out of pocket and, frankly, many would not be interested or able to do the science the government is funding them to do.Imagine I'm doing my mouse cancer science at MIT, Pierre's parent institution. Some time in the last four years, MIT had this negotiation with the National Institutes of Health to figure out what the MIT reimbursable rate is. But as a researcher, I don't have to worry about what indirect costs are reimbursable. I'm all mouse research, all day.Dan: These rates are as much of a mystery to the researchers as it is to the public. When I was junior faculty, I applied for an external grant from the National Science Foundation (NSF) — you can look up awards folks have won in the award search portal. It doesn't break down indirect and direct cost shares of each grant. You see the total and say, “Wow, this person got $300,000.” Then you go to write your own grant and realize you can only budget about 60% of what you thought, because the rest goes to overhead. It comes as a bit of a shock the first time you apply for grant funding.What goes into the overhead rates? Most researchers and institutions don't have clear visibility into that. The process is so complicated that it's hard even for those who are experts to keep track of all the pieces.Pierre: As an individual researcher applying for a project, you think about the direct costs of your research projects. You're not thinking about the indirect rate. When the research administration of your institution sends the application, it's going to apply the right rates.So I've got this $1 million experiment I want to run on mouse cancer. If I get the grant, the total is $1.5 million. The university takes that .5 million for the indirect costs: the building, the massive microscope we bought last year, and a tiny bit for the janitor. Then I get my $1 million. Is that right?Dan: Duke University has a 61% indirect cost rate. If I propose a grant to the NSF for $100,000 of direct costs — it might be for data, OpenAI API credits, research staff salaries — I would need to budget an extra $61,000 on top for ICR, bringing the total grant to $161,000.My impression is that most federal support for research happens through project-specific grants. It's not these massive institutional block grants. Is that right?Pierre: By and large, there aren't infrastructure grants in the science funding system. There are other things, such as center grants that fund groups of investigators. Sometimes those can get pretty large — the NIH grant for a major cancer center like Dana-Farber could be tens of millions of dollars per year.Dan: In the past, US science funding agencies did provide more funding for infrastructure and the instrumentation that you need to perform research through block grants. In the 1960s, the NSF and the Department of Defense were kicking up major programs to establish new data collection efforts — observatories, radio astronomy, or the Deep Sea Drilling project the NSF ran, collecting core samples from the ocean floor around the world. The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) — back then the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) — was investing in nuclear test detection to monitor adherence to nuclear test ban treaties. Some of these were satellite observation methods for atmospheric testing. Some were seismic measurement methods for underground testing. ARPA supported the installation of a network of seismic monitors around the world. Those monitors are responsible for validating tectonic plate theory. Over the next decade, their readings mapped the tectonic plates of the earth. That large-scale investment in research infrastructure is not as common in the US research policy enterprise today.That's fascinating. I learned last year how modern that validation of tectonic plate theory was. Until well into my grandparents' lifetime, we didn't know if tectonic plates existed.Dan: Santi, when were you born?1997.Dan: So I'm a good decade older than you — I was born in 1985. When we were learning tectonic plate theory in the 1990s, it seemed like something everybody had always known. It turns out that it had only been known for maybe 25 years.So there's this idea of federal funding for science as these massive pieces of infrastructure, like the Hubble Telescope. But although projects like that do happen, the median dollar the Feds spend on science today is for an individual grant, not installing seismic monitors all over the globe.Dan: You applied for a grant to fund a specific project, whose contours you've outlined in advance, and we provided the funding to execute that project.Pierre: You want to do some observations at the observatory in Chile, and you are going to need to buy a plane ticket — not first class, not business class, very much economy.Let's move to current events. In February of this year, the NIH announced it was capping indirect cost reimbursement at 15% on all grants.What's the administration's argument here?Pierre: The argument is there are cases where foundations only charge 15% overhead rate on grants — and universities acquiesce to such low rates — and the federal government is entitled to some sort of “most-favored nation” clause where no one pays less in overhead than they pay. That's the argument in this half-a-page notice. It's not much more elaborate than that.The idea is, the Gates Foundation says, “We will give you a grant to do health research and we're only going to pay 15% indirect costs.” Some universities say, “Thank you. We'll do that.” So clearly the universities don't need the extra indirect cost reimbursement?Pierre: I think so.Dan: Whether you can extrapolate from that to federal research funding is a different question, let alone if federal research was funding less research and including even less overhead. Would foundations make up some of the difference, or even continue funding as much research, if the resources provided by the federal government were lower? Those are open questions. Foundations complement federal funding, as opposed to substitute for it, and may be less interested in funding research if it's less productive.What are some reasons that argument might be misguided?Pierre: First, universities don't always say, “Yes” [to a researcher wishing to accept a grant]. At MIT, getting a grant means getting special authorization from the provost. That special authorization is not always forthcoming. The provost has a special fund, presumably funded out of the endowment, that under certain conditions they will dip into to make up for the missing overhead.So you've got some research that, for whatever reason, the federal government won't fund, and the Gates Foundation is only willing to fund it at this low rate, and the university has budgeted a little bit extra for those grants that it still wants.Pierre: That's my understanding. I know that if you're going to get a grant, you're going to have to sit in many meetings and cajole any number of administrators, and you don't always get your way.Second, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison [between federal and foundation grants] because there are ways to budget an item as a direct cost in a foundation grant that the government would consider an indirect cost. So you might budget some fractional access to a facility…Like the mouse microscope I have to use?Pierre: Yes, or some sort of Cryo-EM machine. You end up getting more overhead through the back door.The more fundamental way in which that approach is misguided is that the government wants its infrastructure — that it has contributed to through [past] indirect costs — to be leveraged by other funders. It's already there, it's been paid for, it's sitting idle, and we can get more bang for our buck if we get those additional funders to piggyback on that investment.Dan: That [other funders] might not be interested in funding otherwise.Why wouldn't they be interested in funding it otherwise? What shouldn't the federal government say, “We're going to pay less. If it's important research, somebody else will pay for it.”Dan: We're talking about an economies-of-scale problem. These are fixed costs. The more they're utilized, the more the costs get spread over individual research projects.For the past several decades, the federal government has funded an order of magnitude more university research than private firms or foundations. If you look at NSF survey data, 55% of university R&D is federally funded; 6% is funded by foundations. That is an order of magnitude difference. The federal government has the scale to support and extract value for whatever its goals are for American science.We haven't even started to get into the administrative costs of research. That is part of the public and political discomfort with indirect-cost recovery. The idea that this is money that's going to fund university bloat.I should lay my cards on the table here for readers. There are a ton of problems with the American scientific enterprise as it currently exists. But when you look at studies from a wide range of folks, it's obvious that R&D in American universities is hugely valuable. Federal R&D dollars more than pay for themselves. I want to leave room for all critiques of the scientific ecosystem, of the universities, of individual research ideas. But at this 30,000-foot level, federal R&D dollars are well spent.Dan: The evidence may suggest that, but that's not where the political and public dialogue around science policy is. Again, I'm going to bring in a long arc here. In the 1950s and 1960s, it was, “We're in a race with the Soviet Union. If we want to win this race, we're going to have to take some risky bets.” And the US did. It was more flexible with its investments in university and industrial science, especially related to defense aims. But over time, with the waning of these political pressures and with new budgetary pressures, the tenor shifted from, “Let's take chances” to “Let's make science and other parts of government more accountable.” The undercurrent of Indirect Cost Recovery policy debates has more of this accountability framing.This comes up in this comparison to foundation rates: “Is the government overpaying?” Clearly universities are willing to accept less from foundations. It comes up in this perception that ICR is funding administrative growth that may not be productive or socially efficient. Accountability seems to be a priority in the current day.Where are we right now [August 2025] on that 15% cap on indirect costs?Dan: Recent changes first kicked off on February 7th, when NIH posted its supplemental guidance, that introduced a policy that the direct cost rates that it paid on its grants would be 15% to institutions of higher education. That policy was then adopted by the NSF, the DOD, and the Department of Energy. All of these have gotten held up in court by litigation from universities. Things are stuck in legal limbo. Congress has presented its point of view that, “At least for now, I'd like to keep things as they are.” But this has been an object of controversy long before the current administration even took office in January. I don't think it's going away.Pierre: If I had to guess, the proposal as it first took shape is not what is going to end up being adopted. But the idea that overhead rates are an object of controversy — are too high, and need to be reformed — is going to stay relevant.Dan: Partly that's because it's a complicated issue. Partly there's not a real benchmark of what an appropriate Indirect Cost Recovery policy should be. Any way you try to fund the cost of research, you're going to run into trade-offs. Those are complicated.ICR does draw criticism. People think it's bloated or lacks transparency. We would agree some of these critiques are well-founded. Yet it's also important to remember that ICR pays for facilities and administration. It doesn't just fund administrative costs, which is what people usually associate it with. The share of ICR that goes to administrative costs is legally capped at 26% of direct costs. That cap has been in place since 1991. Many universities have been at that cap for many years — you can see this in public records. So the idea that indirect costs are going up over time, and that that's because of bloat at US universities, has to be incorrect, because the administrative rate has been capped for three decades.Many of those costs are incurred in service of complying with regulations that govern research, including the cost of administering ICR to begin with. Compiling great proposals every two to four years and a new round of negotiations — all of that takes resources. Those are among the things that indirect cost funding reimburses.Even then, universities appear to under-recover their true indirect costs of federally-sponsored research. We have examples from specific universities which have reported detailed numbers. That under-recovery means less incentive to invest in infrastructure, less capacity for innovation, fewer clinical trials. So there's a case to be made that indirect cost funding is too low.Pierre: The bottom line is we don't know if there is under- or over-recovery of indirect costs. There's an incentive for university administrators to claim there's under-recovery. So I take that with a huge grain of salt.Dan: It's ambiguous what a best policy would look like, but this is all to say that, first, public understanding of this complex issue is sometimes a bit murky. Second, a path forward has to embrace the trade-offs that any particular approach to ICR presents.From reading your paper, I got a much better sense that a ton of the administrative bloat of the modern university is responding to federal regulations on research. The average researcher reports spending almost half of their time on paperwork. Some of that is a consequence of the research or grant process; some is regulatory compliance.The other thing, which I want to hear more on, is that research tools seem to be becoming more expensive and complex. So the microscope I'm using today is an order of magnitude more expensive than the microscope I was using in 1950. And you've got to recoup those costs somehow.Pierre: Everything costs more than it used to. Research is subject to Baumol's cost disease. There are areas where there's been productivity gains — software has had an impact.The stakes are high because, if we get this wrong, we're telling researchers that they should bias the type of research they're going to pursue and training that they're going to undergo, with an eye to what is cheaper. If we reduce the overhead rate, we should expect research that has less fixed cost and more variable costs to gain in favor — and research that is more scale-intensive to lose favor. There's no reason for a benevolent social planner to find that a good development. The government should be neutral with respect to the cost structure of research activities. We don't know in advance what's going to be more productive.Wouldn't a critic respond, “We're going to fund a little bit of indirect costs, but we're not going to subsidize stuff that takes huge amounts of overhead. If universities want to build that fancy new telescope because it's valuable, they'll do it.” Why is that wrong when it comes to science funding?Pierre: There's a grain of truth to it.Dan: With what resources though? Who's incentivized to invest in this infrastructure? There's not a paid market for science. Universities can generate some licensing fees from patents that result from science. But those are meager revenue streams, realistically. There are reasons to believe that commercial firms are under-incentivized to invest in basic scientific research. Prior to 1940, the scientific enterprise was dramatically smaller because there wasn't funding the way that there is today. The exigencies of war drew the federal government into funding research in order to win. Then it was productive enough that folks decided we should keep doing it. History and economic logic tells us that you're not going to see as much science — especially in these fixed-cost heavy endeavors — when those resources aren't provided by the public.Pierre: My one possible answer to the question is, “The endowment is going to pay for it.” MIT has an endowment, but many other universities do not. What does that mean for them? The administration also wants to tax the heck out of the endowment.This is a good opportunity to look at the empirical work you guys did in this great paper. As far as I can tell, this was one of the first real looks at what indirect costs rates look like in real life. What did you guys find?Dan: Two decades ago, Pierre and Bhaven began collecting information on universities' historical indirect cost rates. This is a resource that was quietly sitting on the shelf waiting for its day. That day came this past February. Bhaven and Pierre collected information on negotiated ICR rates for the past 60 years. During this project, we also collected the most recent versions of those agreements from university websites to bring the numbers up to the current day.We pulled together data for around 350 universities and other research institutions. Together, they account for around 85% of all NIH research funding over the last 20 years.We looked at their:* Negotiated indirect cost rates, from institutional indirect cost agreements with the government, and their;* Effective rates [how much they actually get when you look at grant payments], using NIH grant funding data.Negotiated cost rates have gone up. That has led to concerns that the overhead cost of research is going up — these claims that it's funding administrative bloat. But our most important finding is that there's a large gap between the sticker rates — the negotiated ICR rates that are visible to the public, and get floated on Twitter as examples of university exorbitance — and the rates that universities are paid in practice, at least on NIH grants; we think it's likely the case for NSF and other agency grants too.An institution's effective ICR funding rates are much, much lower than their negotiated rates and they haven't changed much for 40 years. If you look at NIH's annual budget, the share of grant funding that goes to indirect costs has been roughly constant at 27-28% for a long time. That implies an effective rate of around 40% over direct costs. Even though many institutions have negotiated rates of 50-70%, they usually receive 30-50%.The difference between those negotiated rates and the effective rates seems to be due to limits and exceptions built into NIH grant rules. Those rules exclude some grants, such as training grants, from full indirect cost funding. They also exclude some direct costs from the figure used to calculate ICR rates. The implication is that institutions receive ICR payments based on a smaller portion of their incurred direct costs than typically assumed. As the negotiated direct cost falls, you see a university being paid a higher indirect cost rate off a smaller — modified — direct cost base, to recover the same amount of overhead.Is it that the federal government is saying for more parts of the grant, “We're not going to reimburse that as an indirect cost.”?Dan: This is where we shift a little bit from assessment to speculation. What's excluded from total direct costs? One thing is researcher salaries above a certain level.What is that level? Can you give me a dollar amount?Dan: It's a $225,700 annual salary. There aren't enough people being paid that on these grants for that to explain the difference, especially when you consider that research salaries are being paid to postdocs and grad students.You're looking around the scientists in your institution and thinking, “That's not where the money is”?Dan: It's not, even if you consider Principal Investigators. If you consider postdocs and grad students, it certainly isn't.Dan: My best hunch is that research projects have become more capital-intensive, and only a certain level of expenditure on equipment can be included in the modified total direct cost base. I don't have smoking gun evidence, it's my intuition.In the paper, there's this fascinating chart where you show the institutions that would get hit hardest by a 15% cap tend to be those that do the most valuable medical research. Explain that on this framework. Is it that doing high-quality medical research is capital-intensive?Pierre: We look at all the private-sector patents that build on NIH research. The more a university stands to lose under the administration policy, the more it has contributed over the past 25 years — in research the private sector found relevant in terms of pharmaceutical patents.This is counterintuitive if your whole model of funding for science is, “Let's cut subsidies for the stuff the private sector doesn't care about — all this big equipment.” When you cut those subsidies, what suffers most is the stuff that the private sector likes.Pierre: To me it makes perfect sense. This is the stuff that the private sector would not be willing to invest in on its own. But that research, having come into being, is now a very valuable input into activities that profit-minded investors find interesting and worth taking a risk on.This is the argument for the government to fund basic research?Pierre: That argument has been made at the macro-level forever, but the bibliometric revolution of the past 15 years allows you to look at this at the nano-level. Recently I've been able to look at the history of Ozempic. The main patent cites zero publicly-funded research, but it cites a bunch of patents, including patents taken up by academics. Those cite the foundational research performed by Joel Habener and his team at Massachusetts General Hospital in the early 1980s that elucidated the role of GLP-1 as a potential target. This grant was first awarded to Habener in 1979, was renewed every four or five years, and finally died in 2008, when he moved on to other things. Those chains are complex, but we can now validate the macro picture at this more granular level.Dan: I do want to add one qualification which also suggests some directions for the future. There are things we still can't see — despite Pierre's zeal. Our projections of the consequence of a 15% rate cap are still pretty coarse. We don't know what research might not take place. We don't know what indirect cost categories are exposed, or how universities would reallocate. All those things are going to be difficult to project without a proper experiment.One thing that I would've loved to have more visibility into is, “What is the structure of indirect costs at universities across the country? What share of paid indirect costs are going to administrative expenses? What direct cost categories are being excluded?” We would need a more transparency into the system to know the answers.Does that information have to be proprietary? It's part of negotiations with the federal government about how much the taxpayer will pay for overhead on these grants. Which piece is so special that it can't be shared?Pierre: You are talking to the wrong people here because we're meta-scientists, so our answer is none of it should be private.Dan: But now you have to ask the university lawyers.What would the case from the universities be? “We can't tell the public what we spend subsidy on”?Pierre: My sense is that there are institutions of academia that strike most lay people as completely bizarre.Hard to explain without context?Pierre: People haven't thought about it. They will find it so bizarre that they will typically jump from the odd aspect to, “That must be corruption.” University administrators are hugely attuned to that. So the natural defensive approach is to shroud it in secrecy. This way we don't see how the sausage is made.Dan: Transparency can be a blessing and a curse. More information supports more considered decision-making. It also opens the door to misrepresentation by critics who have their own agendas. Pierre's right: there are some practices that to the public might look unusual — or might be familiar, but one might say, “How is that useful expense?” Even a simple thing like having an administrator who manages a faculty's calendar might seem excessive. Many people manage their own calendars. At the same time, when you think about how someone's time is best used, given their expertise, and heavy investment in specialized human capital, are emails, calendaring, and note-taking the right things for scientists [to be doing]? Scientists spend a large chunk of their time now administering grants. Does it make sense to outsource that and preserve the scientist's time for more science?When you put forward data that shows some share of federal research funding is going to fund administrative costs, at first glance it might look wasteful, yet it might still be productive. But I would be able to make a more considered judgment on a path forward if I had access to more facts, including what indirect costs look like under the hood.One last question: in a world where you guys have the ear of the Senate, political leadership at the NIH, and maybe the universities, what would you be pushing for on indirect costs?Pierre: I've come to think that this indirect cost rate is a second-best institution: terrible and yet superior to many of the alternatives. My favorite alternative would be one where there would be a flat rate applied to direct costs. That would be the average effective rate currently observed — on the order of 40%.You're swapping out this complicated system to — in the end — reimburse universities the same 40%.Pierre: We know there are fixed costs. Those fixed costs need to be paid. We could have an elaborate bureaucratic apparatus to try to get it exactly right, but it's mission impossible. So why don't we give up on that and set a rate that's unlikely to lead to large errors in under- or over-recovery. I'm not particularly attached to 40%. But the 15% that was contemplated seems absurdly low.Dan: In the work we've done, we do lay out different approaches. The 15% rate wouldn't fully cut out the negotiation process: to receive that, you have to document your overhead costs and demonstrate that they reached that level. In any case, it's simplifying. It forces more cost-sharing and maybe more judicious investments by universities. But it's also so low that it's likely to make a significant amount of high-value, life-improving research economically unattractive.The current system is complicated and burdensome. It might encourage investment in less productive things, particularly because universities can get it paid back through future ICR. At the same time, it provides pretty good incentives to take on expensive, high-value research on behalf of the public.I would land on one of two alternatives. One of those is close to what Pierre said, with fixed rates, but varied by institution types: one for universities, one for medical schools, one for independent research institutions — because we do see some variation in their cost structures. We might set those rates around their historical average effective rates, since those haven't changed for quite a long time. If you set different rates for different categories of institution, the more finely you slice the pie, the closer you end up to the current system. So that's why I said maybe, at a very high level, four categories.The other I could imagine is to shift more of these costs “above the line” — to adapt the system to enable more of these indirect costs to be budgeted as direct costs in grants. This isn't always easy, but presumably some things we currently call indirect costs could be accounted for in a direct cost manner. Foundations do it a bit more than the federal government does, so that could be another path forward.There's no silver bullet. Our goal was to try to bring some understanding to this long-running policy debate over how to fund the indirect cost of research and what appropriate rates should be. It's been a recurring question for several decades and now is in the hot seat again. Hopefully through this work, we've been able to help push that dialogue along. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.statecraft.pub

My Honey Cousin: Part 1. Darren is spending the summer with his cousin and his aunt, in the country. Based on a post by Guzzler 21. Listen to the Podcast at My First Time. Prologue: In the countryside of Northeastern France, lived a young widow and her daughter. Lily was an English debutante who married the son of a wealthy French family. Her husband died tragically in a Formula One auto race, leaving the young mother to raise her two year old daughter, Amy. The deceased husband's Family trust provided them a farm and stipend. Lily's sister and brother-in-law have a son, Darren; of nearly the same age, and the two children spent their summers together on the farm while Darren's parents operated a seasonal business in a Resort seaside village. Darren begins the story of how his life changed, from his visits to Aunt Lily's Farm. It was that time of year. My parents ran a restaurant in a very busy summer resort village, on the eastern sea coast of England. So they always sent me away to stay with my aunt and cousin in the French countryside during these busiest months. In my early childhood, I became fluid in speaking French, as a result of this annual summer immersion. Mom's sister, Lily; had married into a wealthy French family, but her Husband died in a tragic accident while competing in a Formula One auto race. The country estate was left to her use, along with an annual support from the family trust. The estate was never hers; only provided for her use. It used to be great fun and I loved those summer months. My cousin Amy was a real rascal. A wild girl with sandy blonde hair, always standing on end and always way too long for her. Her mom (aunt Lily) often gave her a big fat braid in the mornings, but already by lunchtime it was just a big tangled ponytail at best. She was totally wild and always got us into exciting and crazy adventures. And since I was a couple of years younger than her I always followed along on her impulsive ideas. Amy was taught at home, and was her mother's only child. It got us in trouble a few times. Got us scraped knees and bruises also. Climbing fences and jumping off outhouse roofs, and such. The County Wet Nurse. I loved aunt Lily! She was the epitome of a nurturing wholesome country mother! Always had her light brown hair in a large loose knot with strands of hair forever needing to be blown from her face with her classic side blow she’d learned to master over the years. She had huge tits and was very curvy and it was a great feeling to be hugged by her, and she was generous with hugs. Partly because Amy and I often came in crying because we hurt ourselves on some fence, or stubbed our toes on a rock, or something. I particularly remember one time; when I was very much younger, and had scraped my knee, or something; and aunt Lily sat me in her lap and tried to console me to quench my crying. But I just cried and cried with my head in her chest. Suddenly I felt her nipple in my mouth and she pressed my head to her very full teet! My crying stopped and all I could muster was a muffled surprise. As I recall, moments later I felt a squirt of very sweet milk! By pure reflex I swallowed and that mouth movement gave just the right suction to send me another squirt of her milk! It was a bit weird but so soothing. I don’t remember how long this continued but I fell asleep there in her lap latched onto auntie's teet. It never happened again, and we never talked about it. I just kept it in the back of my mind, as a nice, comforting memory. It seems Aunt Lily had continued to nurse cousin Amy until she started primary school; then helped a few other moms who needed a wet nurse, for one reason or another. Pubescent Changes. This summer tradition started about 15 years ago, and ended about 5 years ago. For some reason, this year I was ordered to resume the visit, as a requisite for my financial support at a Cambridge Uni. But this summer I wasn’t as keen to go stay with Amy and Lily over the summer. The Last summer I was there, which was about 5 years ago, Amy was different. I guess she had grown or something. Apart from the obvious;her boobs growing out and her waist and hips getting curvier, and such. She was very stand-offish towards me. She tried, a little, to be fun and welcoming; but it was clear that I was not of interest and mostly just in the way. I was a 13 year old pre-pubisent boy, and Amy was a moody 15 year old self-declared woman. One time I ran into the bathroom and, by mistake, surprised Amy in there, half naked. She got really aggressive and yelled me out of there at some volume. What a bitch! So the greater part of summer was spent watching TV and hanging around aunt Lily. She of course did her best to make me have a good time, playing cards or making me snacks. But I felt kind of alone all summer while my cousin Amy just was ‘out’, or up in her room all day. These past four years I've been enrolled in a boarding school. I've got no idea how my parents afforded it, But now I'm college-qualified. A Pleasing Reception. So it was with a heavy heart I made the boat and train trip, out to the eastern France countryside, this summer. I'm 18 now, and shouldn’t have to stay with aunt Lily and my cousin over the summer. I felt like I was too old to be watched after. Why couldn’t my parents just leave me to tend for myself at home instead? Hopefully Amy had grown out of that mood she was in, years ago. We were both more mature now, I hoped. But already, as I got off the train, I was pleasantly surprised. As I stepped onto the platform I saw aunt Lily over there by the station house. I couldn’t see Amy anywhere but was suddenly attacked by her giving me a strong hug and a wet kiss on the lips! ”So great to see you again, Darren! We’ll have a great summer;” she exclaimed, and gave me another wet kiss on the lips! Amy had grown even more since the last four summers, and so have I. So she was as tall as me, and bigger in delightful ways. I had already felt her firm tits against my chest. And now that she was hanging on to me with an arm around my neck. I also felt the weight of her curvy body. She was wearing a pair of very short jean shorts, red sneakers and a tight tank top that showed the sides of her bra-less boobs, as well as some cleavage. She looked a little younger than her 20 years of age. But she looked so hot! Aunt Lily had probably fixed Amy’s hair just before they came to pick me up, so she still had a thick sandy blonde braid in functioning order. Together, we finally made it to aunt Lily who had been standing over by the station house. Lily is quite tall for a woman, and stately in her 40-year-old classic tall buxom body. Auntie Lily was in a light cotton summer dress. It's low-cut bodice was held in place by two very thin straps, so that her tits were half exposed and without the constraints of a brassiere. Lily's nipples added a finishing accent to the contour of her sundress bodice. I got one of those beautiful auntie hugs from her. It feels like being enveloped by the ultimate mother. A long, deep hug. My face pressed against her abundant bosom; was exactly what I needed, to feel as welcome as I hoped to be. Auntie's thin, yellow summer dress was the only thing that covered those lovely mammary mounds, under there. After the full body hug with Aunt Lily, Darren noticed her nipples now fully tented her bodice. The hardened full nipples were so erect and protruding that the rounded nature of her tits was changed so as to resemble a wide two-pole pup tent. More kisses and they both were telling me how great it was to see me again, before we scuttled into the front seat of aunt Lily’s new 1962 pickup truck, and we headed off to their house in the country. The truck had a column shift, so my legs could move freely without getting bruised by the stick shift in the middle of the floorboard. I enjoyed my view of tits on both sides of my middle of the bench seat. During the ride it, was hard to keep my eyes off of both Lily’s and Amy’s cleavages. Every time I saw an upcoming bump in the road my eyes involuntarily moved to Lily’s cleavage. Amy was also busty, but nowhere near as top-heavy and pendulous as aunt Lily. I think Amy might have noticed, because many times; just as my eyes were turning to auntie’s swinging pendulums, she would say something to grab my attention. Also she was often adjusting her seat-belt, or tucking un her tight shirt, so her boobs were extra accentuated under her tight, low-cut tank top. Only two thin spaghetti straps were tasked with restraining Amy's firm tetons. Towards the last third of the drive, she had already reached over and taken my hand to hers. She'd been holding my hand for a long while and had it clasped with mine. Holding it, the back of my hand was pressed against her crotch. It gave me something else to focus on than auntie’s bouncing boobs. With every bump my hand kind of pressed against her jean shorts. I couldn’t tell if it was her pushing my hand down or if it was just the motion of the bumps. Finally at the farmhouse, Lily began preparing dinner. Amy and I chatted it up. She was very cheery and happy, it seemed. Totally different from the summer 5 years ago. Whilst auntie was making dinner, Amy pranced around the kitchen, bringing out plates and cutlery. Seemed to me that she was spending a lot of time looking in the lower cupboards for stuff, and those very short jean shorts made it hard to look away as she was bending over all the time and wiggling her ass towards me. During dinner Amy was looking very intently at me all the time. The meal was great and I made sure to give aunt Lily a hug afterwards. Again I got to feel the skin of her huge tits against my cheek. Community Tub. Amy wanted attention again and proclaimed that we should take a bath before bedtime, like we used to do all the time when we were youngsters. Lily let go of the warm embrace and said that she would go upstairs and draw a bath for us. I got a bit nervous about the ‘us’ part. Several years back. Amy and I, and even auntie had joined in taking a bath together, sometimes. Before the improvements in indoor plumbing, We had limited hot water, and if we all needed baths, we'd have to share the water. And the castiron tub quickly cooled things had changed. We were kids then. It didn’t really feel the same now. It felt different. Somehow it didn’t feel as innocent now. Amy was quick to grab my hand and show me upstairs to my room. It was the same room that I had always slept in while I was here in summer time. As I well knew, but Amy reminded me, my room was just next to hers. Sometimes, in earlier summers, we used to sneak into each others bedrooms and just hang out. Tickle fights sometimes, giggling and always hushing each other to not wake auntie. Of course she would sometimes hear us and come in and send us to our separate beds. The bed was made, there was a towel on the foot end. We could hear aunt Lily pouring the bathtub from across the hallway. "Get undressed and let’s get in the tub;” Amy said and left the room. Now I was getting really nervous. All those hugs, having both Amy’s and aunt Lily’s tits pressed against me. Amy holding my hand down to her crotch through the better part of the truck ride and seeing Amy in her short shorts prancing around in the kitchen had stirred something in me. I had matured and of course gotten some kind of interest in girls and stuff during the years, but I had never gotten closer than to have some fleeting fantasies in my mind about what it would entail;or even what I actually thought about it. Now I was all of a sudden about to be in a very real situation that I had no experience in. Best not to think too much about it. I had bathed with Amy and aunt so many times before. So I just went with it, undressed and wrapped the towel around my hips and made my way towards the bathroom. Coming into the bathroom the sight of aunt Lily met me. Rather, the sight of her behind. She was leaning over the bath tub, in her summer dress. While stirring the bubbly water, her hips were swaying from side to side. That thin summer dress did nothing to hide her ass cheeks and the width of her womanly hips. Mind and body stirring; I seized the moment and took my chance. Dropped my towel and quickly stepped into the bath, turned away from aunt so I would not be too exposed. ”Oh, there you are, my dear” Lily said as I slid into the front of the tub, with my back to her. In the back of my mind, I already had some kind of fear of what might be to come. I slid towards the middle of the tub, it was pretty big, but I still sat in a semi fetal position with my back turned towards aunt Lily. The water was steaming hot, but not burning. Luckily, Lily had stirred up a fair amount of bubbles, so I didn’t feel too exposed. Just as I started warming up to the idea of sitting nude in a bathtub with my voluptuous aunt right behind me; Amy walks in! She had a big smile and was holding her towel around her hips. Now I could finally see her firm boobs in plain view. They were beautiful! Not extra large, of course, but looked desirable. They had pinkish areola, with button-sized nipples poking out to say 'hello', in a slight upward trajectory. ”Hey Darren, make some room for me;” she said as she dropped her towel and exposed her bare pussy, which now was just at eye level from me sitting in the tub. Trying not to look straight at Amy’s crotch, I could still make out the beautiful light pinkish lips behind a fluffy layer of curly blonde hair on her mound. Very light and probably very soft I would think. I felt a twitch down in my awakening tally-whacker regions. Amy had decided to sit in front of me, so I had to slide back in the tub. I tried very hard not to let my eyes give me away, as she spread her legs, her pussy now spread wide and mere inches from my face; and very slowly she lowered into the tub. Maybe she felt my gaze and got self conscious, because she then turned around and squatted, facing me. I think I could see her face blush a little when she realized she had shown herself to me in all her naked glory. Or maybe it was just the hot bath water? Our knees were drawn up and her feet were now touching next to mine, under water. ”The water is really nice, mom;” Amy said to aunt Lily. ”Is it? Yeah, maybe I’ll get in with you guys, also;” Lily responded and rose up, she grabbed the skirting in both hands and lifted her summer dress off, in one smooth move! She was, of course, not wearing anything underneath! As her wonderfully curved nakedness revealed itself, my head quickly jerked back towards Amy. Now I could feel my cheeks blushing and that tingling feeling, and my already-turgid cock stiffened to a petrified nature! I was too surprised to take it all in, but I could clearly make out Lily's wide hips, strong, round thighs and huge heavy tits as she stood next to her falling dress, and reached to the back of her head to pin up her hair in a knot, before climbing in behind me. ”Mom! I think Darren got a bit embarrassed now!” Amy snickered as she tried to catch my eye. Aunt Lily was sitting down behind me. I felt her thighs straddle my hips. I tried to play it off like it was nothing; ”Nah, it’s alright.” I claimed; although I think the tremor in my voice gave me away, a bit. Lily reached around and grabbed me across the chest from behind, and pulled me back against her. I could feel her huge tits pressing against my back! ”Oh no! My little nephew can't be embarrassed! We’ve taken plenty of baths together over the years! Right Darren?” she said as she gave me a wet, foamy hug, pressing her firm heavy tits against my back even more. "Now, scoot back toward me, so I can get my legs straightened out.” she said and grabbing her other arm around my waist, she leaned back pulling me along. She straightened her legs, one leg on each side of me, her thick thighs pressing against my sides and laid them over my now outstretched legs. My calves were now pressed against Amy's hips and Amy's toes soon became tucked under my inner thighs. My ass was in effect pressed down against the bottom of the tub and Aunt Lily's boobs were like two fleshy pillows against the back of my head. I could feel her pubes against the lower part of my back and any tingling feelings had now passed on to a pulsating horniness. Amy took her chance, as aunt Lily pulled me back towards her, to also straighten her legs out and place them on each side of me, so only her knees were a little above water and I was even more pressed down in place. We still had about 12 inches between each other underwater, luckily. Otherwise I fear she’d have been poked by my growing tally-whacker, down there. "Okay, Let me do your back.” Lily said; and pushed my upper body to a forward leaning position. I was sad to not have her tits as my soft pillows anymore, but glad that I could now reach in front of me, and collect some more bath foam to try to cover the surface just in front of me, instead. Auntie started to rub my back with a bar of soap and both her hands. "While mom does your back, you can do my front” Amy said and poured some shampoo over her tits! "But; I don’t have a sponge?” I stammered. "Just use your hands, silly” she replied and leaned forward; the slimy shampoo slowly running down her round tits, then dripping onto the foamy bubbles on the water. I cleared my throat for unknown reasons, and gingerly tried to use my fingertips to spread out the shampoo over her top chest and shoulders. "Come on! you have to make it lather up” she said with a jokingly annoyed voice. Then she grabbed the back of my hands and put them over her tits! I could feel her hardened nipples under my palms as she started moving my hands around and around over her two firm tits. I don’t know for how long this went on, but long enough for me to get a painful raging hard on, under the water. I don’t think I have a specially big cock, or anything. But I could probably compare with the best, in terms of hardness at this moment. It was painful, but at the same time I was in a wet and warm heaven, wedged in place by my aunt's and my cousin's legs! I was jolted back to reality, or to a new form of heaven, actually; when aunt Lily exclaimed: "There! Your back is done now, lean back toward me, and I’ll do your hair.” Amy reached past me to hand Lily the bottle of shampoo. Then I was pulled back, my head was pillowed on two soft tits. Landing in her tits, my two earlobes were gently poked by what I now assume were Lily's two big stiff nipples. But this time my back, and aunt Lily, were covered in shampoo, and very slippery. I slid down a bit. Lily lifted her thighs up, and her thighs caught under my armpits. So I was now slid down, just my head and shoulders above the water and I was stuck in a meaty vise, my head pressed in between auntie’s generous tits that were now also touching my cheeks from behind! To my terror, yet enjoyment; my sliding down in the tub also had resulted in mine and Amy’s groins bumping together! I could feel the bottom of my shaft pressing against her pussy down there under the foamy water surface! I was stuck in place and had no chance to move! Above and around my head were aunt Lily’s huge boobs, my arms were wedged in place between by her thighs; and my legs were firmly held down by both Lily’s and Amy’s legs on top of them. For a short moment I prayed for the slim chance that Amy maybe didn’t notice that something was pressing against her pussy lips. No chance of that, though. Amy had gone very silent all of a sudden. Aunt Lily was shampooing my head and hair between her tits I could feel Amy tilting her pelvis, slowly; up and down the underside of my now pulsating shaft. My eyes stung just a bit. Auntie suggested I close them to avoid further irritation, while she thoroughly scrubbed and massaged my scalp. Auntie passed the shampoo back to Amy, and Amy started on her own long hair and scalp. She began humming ever so softly. But without my vision, all my other senses got much more intense! I could feel the firm embrace I was in by aunt Lily, I could even feel her slippery mound pressing against the middle of my back. It felt like my spine was embedded in between her cunt lips! Maybe auntie was enjoying this also? And I could feel the weight of Amy’s legs pressing down on mine and her pussy sliding slowly up and down along my shaft, in even longer and longer strokes; until I could feel her so high up my shaft that the head of my rock hard cock was sometimes touching her stiff nub! Since my eyes were hard closed I could not see, but from the sounds I heard it seemed like Amy was in her own world, washing her hair above the surface whilst she was rubbing against my pole under it. I guess she was pretending all was normal so auntie wouldn’t notice. But I surely noticed. I was pressed in between two hot ladies cunts! One against my cock and the other pressed against my spine. My head enveloped by aunt Lily’s large, soft, slippery tits! We were all suspiciously quiet for a long time, I had never had anyone wash my hair for that long. But I guess auntie finally got a hold of herself and reached for the shower wand, then showered off the suds in my hair and eyes at last. Then she propped me upward, to a more stable position and that pulled mine and Amy’s flirting groins apart. Which in turn got Amy back to earth also, and she then showered her head off. There were still some suds and bubbles in the tub, but dangerously few, now. I got worried that my stone hard boner was going to be seen by either of my two tub-mates. Amy was first to declare herself washed and finished. As she stood up in front of me, I got a good view of her smooth and glistening pussy, streams of water from her body ran down and formed a little stream that ran from her outer pussy lips, down into the tub. She probably stood there a little longer than necessary, to tease me with what had been rubbing against me underwater, for the last 15 minutes. Once out of the tub, she bent over, legs straight of course; to pick up her towel and I got a good eye of her bulbous pussy from behind. I could not see any inner pussy lips hanging out like one can sometimes see on women in dirty magazines. Here was only a wet, smooth slit going up to the crack of her ass. Perhaps it was due to her very aroused, swollen state? She swiftly wiped her body with the towel and then wrapped the towel around her waist and another towel wrapped her wet hair. Then, in a hurried voice, she said, "I’ll be in my room;” and left, tippy toeing out the bathroom door. I saw that my towel was lying on the floor next to the tub, very close. So I took my chance and grabbed my towel as I maneuvered out of the bath; careful to keep my back towards auntie, so she wouldn't see my rock hard cock, which was standing at full attention. Wrapping the towel around my waist and not turning around I said: "I’ll go finish in my room,” to auntie; and was quickly out of there going to down the hall. "Okay, I’ll just stay in the tub for a while longer.” I heard Lily say, as I slipped out. Back in my room, I shut the door and quickly dried off. Every time I even grazed my boner with the towel I almost came! I had of course, masturbated a few times before, but that feeling was nothing like the pent up energy I had stored in my loins now! But I didn’t dare to rub one off now! As I was feeling there could be huge amounts of cum to squirt and I had nowhere to hide that in here. No paper towels, no trash can; I had to just get my mind out of it. Thinking of baseball. Thinking of rocks, math equations; thinking of coloring crayons; I still had a pretty stiff boner after a while, but at least it was not pulsating and aching anymore. Rendezvous with Amy. As I was sitting on my bed I heard a faint scratching from the wall. Amy's bedroom was just on the other side from my headboard and the scratching was a familiar sign we’d always used earlier summers to call the other, to one’s bedroom at night. Shit. How was I going to handle this now? Just pretend to be asleep? Nah, then she would just come sneaking in here, instead. Okay, think fast now; I tried to put on my briefs. But they were very tight, even without a boner. Damn! I do have a long tee-shirt though! If I keep it pulled down, and if I sit on the bed I could pull up my knees into it and that way not reveal my hard cock. Quickly going through my bag, I tugged out my long tee-shirt and wrangled it on. Just standing up it goes all the way down just below my balls; right now my boner was more 'two o'clock high'; it was very visible, tenting at the shirt's bottom part. But if I hunched forward a little, it showed nothing; that’ll have to do! I opened my bedroom door. The hallway is darkened, but I can hear that aunt Lily is still sloshing around in the bathtub. The bathroom door is a little ajar and the light spills out from there to the beige hallway rug. Carefully closing my door as silently as I could, I then snuck down the hall towards Amy’s bedroom. As I was passing the bathroom; I had noticed that the sloshing sound was very rhythmic. I couldn’t, Not; sneak a peek; Peering in the slightly cracked door, I could see that aunt Lily was lying down in the tub, her head on the same end she had it in, when we were all in there. But now she was sunken down into the tub, so only her head was visible. She was leaned back, eyes closed and mouth slightly opened. The sloshing sound came from her rubbing something just under water level. I knew what was happening here. Aunt had gotten aroused from her clitoris rubbing against my spine, as we were bathing before. And now she needed to finish the job herself! My throbbing hard-on reminded me not to stay here and watch this erotic happening, for too long. Otherwise I would surely not be able to hide it from Amy! Moving along, Amy’s door was cracked. Only a faint light was visible from inside her room. I snuck in, but left the door cracked as it had been. I made a show out of putting my finger to my lips in a motion of silence, also exaggerating my ‘sneaking’ movements and staying hunched so my shirt would cover my hard on that was still there. Amy was in her bed. It was a very girly bed. Huge fluffy cover with white lacing around the edges. She was propped up on her elbow, her wild hair on end from rubbing it dry. She had a lovely, warm smile and only her shoulder and half of her right tit was showing. "Come here” she whispered and waved me towards her. The waving made the bed cover slip down a bit and show more of her lovely tit and giving it an alluring jostle. Hunched down I snuck over to the side of her bed and knelt there, effectively hiding everything below my chest against the bedside. ‘Safe!’ I thought to myself. From out of nowhere, she just asked right out: "Have you ever been with any girls?” I wished that I hadn’t gone silent for too many seconds. I was surprised at the blunt question. And my several seconds of saying nothing was answer enough; so I had to go with, "No.” Amy smiled; "Would you like to?” I nodded, a bit too eagerly. "Do you like honey?” she asked with bright, hopeful eyes. "Of course.” I said; not really understanding the relevance of the question. Until I saw her reach towards her bed table. There was a bear-shaped plastic bottle, half full of honey. She carefully dripped some of the flowing honey onto her right nipple; "Have some;” she said with that enticing smile. I could suddenly see nothing else than her nipple and the honey slowly running down around and from it. I leaned forward, stuck out my tongue and just let the tip touch her tit where the honey had run the farthest. It was awesomely sweet and made even sweeter by Amy's quick inhalation. She liked that, obviously. I went in again, took a longer lick. Again, she gasped a bit and shivered. I got bolder (as my cock also got harder), licking again; and again. Throwing a glance at Amy in between licks; she was leaning her head back and her eyes were closed with her mouth half open, in the same fashion as I had just seen aunt Lily in the bathtub. Finally I just planted my mouth over her tit and licked; and then sucked, until all the honey was gone. Then I leaned back and took a few breaths. Amy pulled down her blanket, revealing her other tit. "Now this one” she said excitedly. She laid down on her back and dripped some honey on her other tit and looked at me expectantly. To reach her other tit, I had to raise myself up and lay my torso over her belly. As I started licking I took a gamble and put my other hand over the tit I had just licked clean. Amy moaned and didn’t seem to mind. Her nipples were now very stiff and protruded. I sucked and licked with long strokes for all that I was worth! Amy was moaning and turning her head from side to side. Eyes closed and breathing heavily. She dripped some more honey on the small pit just below her neck and above the chest. I eagerly licked my way up there and sipped in the honey. She was still having her eyes closed, applying some honey to her lips; I followed. Started licking her lips. She stuck her tongue out. I licked that also. We naturally progressed; engaged in a long deep kiss. Our tongues wrestled each other and explored every crevice of each other's mouths. We broke off the kiss, and I leaned up a little. I was now sitting on the side of Amy’s bed, my pulsating boner still covered by my long tee-shirt though. I realized that I still had both my hands on her tits. I pulled them away. Amy looked me straight in the eye, she was obviously very excited. "Do you like honey?” she asked with her infectious smile. She slowly pulled down her blanket with her feet; I nodded and let out a feeble: "Uh;” She drizzled some honey from the top of her belly and down to her bellybutton. Her blanket pulled down and only exposed her down to the start of her hips. I had zero experience in this sort of thing, but I felt I knew where this was going. I slid down the bed length, one knee on the bed and one on the floor and bent in over her belly and started licking down towards her bellybutton. My cock was now throbbing intensely. As I was getting closer to Amy's belly button I could perceive she was tugging down her blanket more and more with her feet. As I sucked up the last honey from her cute belly, she raised herself up on one elbow and reached down with the little bear shaped honey flask. "Are you ready Darren?” she asked and dripped a hefty amount of honey on top of her trimmed furry mound. I was transfixed to see this. Her lovely, soft pussy lips, the mound above with short curly hairs on top and the golden honey slowly running down into the slit below; I dove in. Not knowing what to do, I trusted my instinct and horniness. My only goal was to let my tongue explore everything it could reach. I heard Amy moan loudly and then I heard her put a hand over her mouth to make less noise. This just egged me on to lick harder and faster; and deeper! Between the sweet taste of honey I could also smell and taste her fresh pussy juices flowing. Soon they became more tempting than the honey. When my tongue hit the right spots within Amy’s cunt lips, a gush of her juices came gushing, again, and again. I lapped everything up like a dog in heat. Amy was moaning and moaning under her hand. Her other hand was grabbing my hair and pushing my face deeper into her opening! Her hips were squirming, and twerking; and finally she pulled my head away from her lovely lower lips. Panting and shaking, she grinned at me with a wide smile. She said; "Phew! I need a break! Your tongue is too good!” Amy grabbed another bottle from her night stand, quickly gave it to me, turned around on her stomach and kicked off the rest of her blanket. I now sat on her bedside with a bottle of baby oil in my hand and Amy’s beautiful back and ass up towards me. I thought my hard on was hard before; it was explosive now! "Can you please give me a back massage, to calm me down?” she said, her voice half muffled in the pillow. I switched positions. Not having to worry about Amy seeing my excited rod now I could position myself more freely. So I sat myself upon her legs, straddling her thighs and applied some baby oil on her back. I Started rubbing it in her shoulders and upper back; as she let out pleasurable moans. As I massaged her mid-back and tried to slide down to catch some of her side boobs Amy said: "You can put your hard todger between my ass cheeks, if you want. I can feel that you are hard already.” I was surprised and embarrassed at the same time. But I wanted nothing more than to let my throbbing cock touch her skin! So I moved up her legs where I could sink down and place my cock along her ass crack. It felt so good! "Put some of the oil on there.” Amy said. I poured a generous amount of the baby oil on my shaft that was firmly placed between her ass cheeks and immediately felt how well it slid now. The back rub/massage became very secondary to me now, and probably for Amy too. The main focus was to slide my, harder-than-ever, cock further in, between her cheeks. It was the greatest feeling ever. I could’ve died then and there, and it had all been worth it, just for that! I used the ‘back rubbing’ of her shoulders just as an excuse to press down even harder on her ass. The baby oil made it totally frictionless. My cock was like in a gravity free zone. Skin against skin. I moved my hips in longer and longer strokes. By mistake I moved down too far and my cock slipped down from her ass crack. As I moved my hips forward again my tipped pressed in between Amy’s wet and slippery cunt lips! Amy let out a little squeak and tensed up. I froze in my tracks! Had I gone too far? My tip was pressing against her cunt hole; "Um; you wanna push it in?” she asked in a flirtatious voice. "Uh;” I mumbled. "Ok, go for it. But; go slowly;” she whispered. Amazing! I was going to lose my virginity in the most sexy girl I had ever seen! From behind no less. My cock was throbbing and I could feel Amy’s swollen cunt lips slightly and slowly letting my tip in. I went as slow as I possibly could. As my cock head burrowed deeper and deeper I could feel her tightness. There was a slight resistance, her opening was slowly opening and I could hear her whimper with lust, with her face buried in the pillow, now. Suddenly she relaxed her cunt muscles and my cock head sank in! I could feel her entrance immediately tense up again and close around the ridge of my crown! I was in! Amy was quivering and breathing heavily! I looked down. Most Of her upper back was covered by her tangled and moist hair, her ass was shining in the light of the lamp on her bedside. Between her ass cheeks I could see my cock, but the top of it was just inside her lovely tunnel! Suddenly - a knock on the door!! "Amy, are you still awake?” Aunt Lily’s voice could be heard as she slowly started opening the door! Amy sprung into action and all of the following happened in less than a half second and with what felt like one superfast swooping move! Amy turned to her side with such force that I fell over towards the side of the bed that was against the wall. She spread her legs and bent her body down to grab the big blanket that she had kicked off earlier. As she bent her body to reach the blanket she pushed me into the wall and my cock sunk in her a good deal deeper than just the tip! She threw the blanket over us and pushed hard back with her hips, sinking me ALL the way in! We were spooning, with Amy now facing the doorway. I thought I fainted and everything went dark! Amy became still. "Yes mommy.” she answered Lily. She had thrown the blanket over us, but her head was still above the covers and she had pressed her body back against mine so I sat in a thigh squeeze between her pussy and the bedroom wall. I was trying to lie dead still and make myself as small as possible under the covers behind Amy! I could feel her inner walls clamping around my pulsating cock shaft, inside her. I was on the brink of cumming; I could hear aunt Lily entering the room, "Hey honey. I was afraid that you might have dozed off before you got your evening milk.” As she sat down on Amy’s bedside the bed rocked and swayed a bit. That little motion was all that was needed to push me over the edge! I clenched my teeth and was totally still in all limbs, apart from one! I was, in all silence, squirting and squirting all of my pent up seed, deep into Amy’s hot cunt! I know that Amy could feel it, because she was clenching full force to try to stop the gushing flow, but that only aroused it even more! "Oh sweetie. You’re looking all flustered! What’s wrong?” auntie asked as she put up her legs (I presumed) and made herself more comfortable in the bed beside Amy. "No, no. I’m fine mommy.” Amy answered. I could hear the strain in her voice since I knew she was now feeling my pumping cock squirting load after load into her, as she was trying to pretend like nothing. "Well, give me some room, it’s time for your evening milk,” auntie said. As aunty Lily made herself comfortable on the old mattress which floated on a coil spring foundation. She laid beside Amy. Now I was pushed even more, into the wall, and Amy to me. I thought I couldn’t penetrate Amy any deeper than I already had; but with auntie's shoving I must’ve pressed in almost another inch into Amy! I nearly fainted. And I could hear Amy also giving out a slight gasp! "Now then, open wide love;” aunt Lily said in a soft voice. I could hear Amy latch on to Lily’s huge tit and let out a satisfied, " Hmm; ” I just lay there, still as a mouse, trying not to breathe even. I was embedded into Amy from behind, to the hilt, as she was suckling milk from aunt Lily’s beautiful big tit. This was the hottest thing I could ever have imagined! Although I had just blasted loads, I could feel myself starting to throb again! Amy was feeling it too; and was timing her pussy contractions to my cock’s throbbing. By the sound of it, she was also keeping the same pace with her milk sucking. "Oh, you’re hungry tonight, Amy.” Lily whispered in a pleased voice. Since we couldn’t move without aunt noticing, this was the best we could do. Amy’s inside muscles were milking my cock at a soft and steady pace and it felt glorious! "I’ll rock you to sleep baby.” Lily said and starting humming on some classic lullaby. Suddenly I could feel Amy’s hips start rocking back and forth! Aunt Lily was humming and rocking Amy, unaware that this just gave us the in and out motion that we very much, enjoyed. To my horror; this movement, combined with all the fluids involved in my penetration, started making a smacking kind of sound! Amy must’ve noticed too and started making similar sucking sounds to cancel out the sound of my rod being pulled out and then pushed in again by auntie’s rocking motion. This only made it even more vivid for me to imagine the image of her sucking on Lily’s tit! I very soon came again into Amy. It was excruciatingly pleasurable this time, since the movement just continued, although I could only wish for a pause. But aunt Lily didn’t know what was going on, down there under the covers; and that her lovely daughter was impaled by me, pumping her full; yet again. This continued until I finally passed out, or fell asleep, with my hard, young cock inside her, without the possibility of escape. To be continued. Based on a post by Guzzler 21, for Sex Stories.

Runways: Part 4 Amy’s Trip to the Rockies By m storyman x – listen to the Podcast at Steamy Stories. "All I know is she wanted you to follow the directions in the note. I have no idea what it is, but as long as it doesn't crash the plane, I'd say it'd be best to do them. I mean you know how damn irritating she can get when her suggestions aren't followed." "Suggestions? Is that what you call em?" "She thinks they're suggestions." I chuckled. "She does?" "Yeah." I said. "So. In the last three days, you two have, what? Chatted?" "Well, there isn't all that much to do up there if you don't fish or hike, and you know how much she loves the outdoors." "Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if she'd even go outside at all if she could avoid it." Amy said. "I understand. So what's the note say?" "Just some personal stuff." "Personal stuff?" I persisted. "Yeah. You know. Personal stuff." "Okay. So that personal stuff made me fly all the way back to Chicago, not counting the nearly two hours of a rough Jeep ride down the mountain and back up. I'd kinda like to know what kind of personal stuff was so important." "She's mad at me." Amy admitted. "About?" I asked as I leveled the plane off at fifteen thousand feet. "Hang on a second. "Chicago center. X-ray Alpha Gulf Foxtrot Seven level at fifteen thousand." "Roger X-ray Alpha Gulf Foxtrot Seven. Contact Minneapolis center on three two one point three zero. Have a good day!" "Roger Chicago center. Switching to Minneapolis center on three two one three zero." I answered. Before turning back to Amy. "So why's she mad at you?" "Because of you." "Me?" I asked. "Uh huh. You told her that I would sleep with you for a weekend if you took her with you." "Yeah. I did. Just kinda came out in a discussion." I explained. "A discussion? Must have been some discussion." "Actually, it was an angry one. But then that first day we had more than one of those." "I take it she didn't much like the trip?" "She didn't like the ride up to the cabin, she didn't like that there's no indoor plumbing, she didn't like that there's no cell phone service up there, no electricity, and no computer. Should I go on? It only took me about five minutes and I'd had enough and threw her in the lake. The conversation came later." "So you what? Threatened to bring her home and she's now refusing?" "Something like that. Said she wasn't going anywhere until I went and got you. So here I am." "So here we are," she agreed. "What was so bad about the ride to the cabin?" I looked over at her sitting in her high heels and light weight mini-dress, the front plunge neckline cut down well below her very hefty breasts, thinking just how much fun I was going to have on the drive up the mountain, since that particular style dress pretty much prevented wearing any kind of bra. I'd always thought she had pretty nice looking tits, though I'd never seen them bare. I suspected that before the day was out I would. We made good time and soon landed at Crested Butte. Ten minutes of work to prep the plane for storage again and we were off in the well-worn Jeep. As the wind whipped around through the missing doors it kept blowing her skirt up her legs. I couldn't help but grin to myself at the sight of her lacy pink panties, the hard cock growing in my shorts. While I found Kim attractive, physically, I found Amy attractive in many more ways. I'd always wondered why she's spurned my obvious flirts, until Kim dropped the bomb on me that the two of them were more than just friends, but lovers as well. But even knowing that didn't stop my body from reacting to the attraction I felt for her. I turned off the highway and onto the gravel road, the Jeep bouncing and jolting at each hole, making her large tits bounce enticingly in the dress top. My stiff cock was almost uncomfortable in my shorts by the time I pulled off the gravel onto the winding dirt track I called a road up to the cabin. We bounced and jostled over the rough track, Amy's lovely boobs bouncing clear out of the top of her dress every so often. "It's getting late. We should have stopped for supper," she said, hanging onto the seat with one hand and the windshield with the other "Not a problem. Kim said she'd have dinner ready when we got back," I said as I gripped the wheel with both hands as I approached the same log that Kim had stripped at. "Kim? Cook? You do live dangerously!" she said as the front wheels launched over the log, the Jeep coming down hard on the other side. I eased the rear wheels up to the log and bounced over it, stopping on the other side. I shut the engine down, letting the sounds of the wind through the pines waft over us. "So. This is pretty much where it started." "Where what started?" Amy was confused. "The conversations. She was having some wardrobe trouble, kind of like you," I said nodding down toward the front of her dress where one of her large round breasts had shifted enough to completely expose one of her nipples and about half of her areola. She looked down, squeaked a little and pulled her dress top to cover her exposed nipple. "Sorry about that," she mumbled, blushing a little. "No need to apologize. I've been enjoying the view," I answered honestly. "Anyway, she was having more trouble than that, and I said I'd let her change into something more appropriate. Surprisingly, her version of more appropriate was to get completely naked." "She stripped? Right here?" "Uh huh. Rode the rest of the way up to the cabin naked. Worked out okay though. That way she didn't have a lot of wet clothes when I threw her in the lake." "Well, she's been seen by a lot of guys naked. I guess you're just one more on the list." "Yeah. Sorta. I agreed that it wasn't fair and let her convince me to strip too." "You? You stripped naked with her?" "Well, after her, but yeah," I said suddenly feeling a little self conscious. "And she wanted you to?" Amy marveled. "She said it was the fair thing to do." "Sometimes I don't understand her." "Well, you'll understand this less then. She wanted you to do the same thing. Something about if you showed up at the cabin dressed that she'd personally throw You into the lake, and the lake isn't exactly warm." "She wants me to strip? In front of you?" "That's what she said." "And if I don't?" "You get thrown in the lake, and just so you know, the lake temperature right now is about sixty degrees." "And what? You're supposed to just sit there and watch me?" "Nope. I'm supposed to strip with you." I added. "Wait. She wants both of us to get naked? What's she thinking?" "She's your boss. You tell me." I rebutted. "Well, I'm not going to! Not in front of you!" she said, crossing her arms over her chest. I looked down at my watch. "Well, we've got plenty of time. You made better time to the airport than I expected," I said, leaning back and putting one foot up on the hump between the seats. She sat for long seconds, her arms crossed in front of her. "Why?" she finally asked. "Why what?" "Why do I have to get naked?" "I guess because she wants you too." "I think it's just to humiliate me." "Humiliate you? How so? I mean weren't you the one that suggested that you'd have sex with me for a whole weekend to get me to take her on vacation with me? I mean, come on now. Getting undressed in front of me is now somehow humiliating? You'd have to have gotten undressed in front of me for that, right?" "Well. Yeah." "So getting undressed to get me to take her wouldn't be, but getting undressed after I did, is?" "That does sound kind of stupid, doesn't it?" Amy admitted. "Uh huh." "So you have to get undressed too?" She said, not quite believing my claims. "That's what she said." "Okay. So you go first." Amy negotiated. "Alright. As long as you realize that I'm not moving this Jeep until you're naked," I said as I moved to climb out of the Jeep. I pulled my t-shirt off and tossed it on the seat, quickly skimming my shorts off and tossing them on the pile I was making. I took a quick, deep breath and pushed down my boxer briefs, my hard cock poking out and waving around as I lifted each leg to step out of my underwear. I added the underwear to the pile and then moved the whole pile between the seats. "Okay. Your turn," I said as I sat back down in the bucket seat, my dick sticking up like a flag pole. She sat, staring at my engorged shaft and mushroom head. "God you're hard. Are you turned on by this? By me getting naked?" "A bit," I answered honestly. "I mean you know that I've been attracted to you since I met you. I’ve been upfront about that. Having your tits popping out of that dress all the way up here hasn't hurt any either." The Requisite Nude Arrival "God damn. Men are all the same. Fine. You wanna see me naked?" she asked as she undid her seat belt and stepped out of the Jeep. She quickly pulled the dress up and over her head, tossing it between the seats before reaching down and pushing the tiny pink lace panties down and off, her easily D cup tits swinging side to side as she stepped from foot to foot. Her nipples were nearly as large around as my index finger, sticking out almost as far as they were wide, each one centered in the middle of a three inch or larger pink circle of puckered areola. Her stomach was trim, but not muscular, and her thighs looked creamy and soft. Unlike Kim, she wasn't uniformly tanned, leaving large cream colored triangle shaped patches on each breast and between her legs. Unlike Kim, she wasn't shaved, but had a nicely trimmed little arrow of dark auburn curls pointing toward her fat puffy pussy lips. I lost sight of her below the waist as she walked around the Jeep, stopping at the door space next to my seat. "Well? You wanna do it here?" "Huh?" I asked stupidly. She stepped to the side and rested her hands on the back fender, bending over and sticking her ass out, her big tits swinging below her chest. "That's the idea isn't it? That's what all you guys want. Get em naked and then fuck em? Well, I promised you a fuck, why not come get it?" I shook my head in amazement. "You know. This is the kind of thing I'd have expected from Kim. Not you. You've always been nice, sweet, gentle. This... This is... This is just not the YOU I've seen." "Well, it's the me you get when you wanna treat me like a piece of meat. So come fuck me and get it over with." I didn't bother to move from my seat. "Yeah. I'd love to have sex with you. But not like this," I said shaking my head. "Why not? You're a guy, right? Isn't that the goal? Strip um and fuck um?" "Not all guys are like that. I’m surprised by your bigoted prejudices" "The hell they aren't," she said as she straightened up and started back around the Jeep. She climbed in and buckled her seat belt. "Well. I'm naked. Let's go." "If you say so." I answered, reaching down and starting the engine. I was more than a little surprised at her sudden change in demeanor, and I had no idea what had caused it. Since I'd known her she'd been nothing but sweet. While the naked thing, suggested by Kim, was supposed to be a bit of an ice breaker between the two of us, something that Kim THOUGHT that Amy wanted. Now I wasn't so sure. Maybe going to get her had been a big mistake. Maybe something in the note, which I hadn't read, and now wished I had, was provoking this response. Either way, I wasn't nearly as turned on as I was only minutes ago. Even watching her bare breasts bounce and sway as we made our way up the rough road wasn't having the effect on me one would expect. No, suddenly I wasn't convinced that the rest of the week was going to be all that my mind had conjured up. "So. What did her note say?" I asked as we bounced through a particularly deep rut. "Just some stuff," she said evasively. "Is that what's got you upset?" I asked, gripping the wheel tightly and glancing over at her. "Partly." "Partly? What's the other part?" "You." She blurted. "Me? What did I do?" "Well, for one thing, you weren't exactly honest with me." I was pretty sure I knew what she was talking about, me telling her it was an emergency to get her out here. But I wasn't going to offer. "How so?" I asked, instead. She twisted herself in her seat and glared at me. "You said this was an emergency. Somehow, getting naked in the woods with you doesn't FEEL like an emergency. You also got naked with Kim. That by itself isn't exactly normal. Have you been fucking her too?" I stopped the Jeep and looked over at her. "I thought you two were lovers. What makes you think that she'd even have any interest in having sex with a guy, let alone me?" "Just the fact that she told you that, makes me believe something else is going on here. She wouldn't say that unless you'd tried to push yourself on her. Is that what made her so mad? You got naked around her and couldn't keep your hands off of her? I thought you were different. I though you weren't like other guys, wanting to get into her pants just because of how she looks. How could I have been so wrong?" "I think you better ask her," I answered with a frown, dropping the Jeep into a lower gear and letting out the clutch again. I was suddenly glad that the cabin was only a couple more turns away. We rolled into the grassy front yard of the cabin, the road just sort of ending where the ground leveled out. Kim must have heard us drive in, stepping out of the door as we rolled to a stop a dozen yards from the front porch. She was wearing high heel wedges. and a flowery, flowing dress that was semi-sheer, her body teasingly visible through the thin material. Somehow she'd managed to get her hair done up and makeup on so that she looked every bit the model as she did when she stepped onto the plane four days ago. "AMY!" Kim said cheerfully as she stepped off the porch toward us. "Oh. I see that Adam took my suggestion. Did you enjoy the drive up naked as much as I did?" "Your suggestion? I thought it was an order. A direct command," Amy said sharply, as she looked over at me climbing out of the Jeep. "Well, suggestion, order. They're pretty much the same, aren't they?" "Not so much," Amy said as she slipped out of the seat. "So how much has he taken advantage of you?" Amy wanted to know. "Taken advantage of me? Why would you think such a thing? He has been the consummate gentleman. He's shown me things that I had no idea existed, and he's included me in things that I never thought I'd do." Amy looked at me as Kim hooked an arm around her shoulders and drew her toward the cabin while I pulled her suitcase from the back of the Jeep. "He didn't force himself on you? Make you have sex with him?" Kim laughed. "Make me? When has any man ever MADE me have sex with them?" "But you told him about us. You told him about our relationship," Amy said in confusion as Kim led her into the one room cabin with me following behind her with her suitcase. "I did. I thought it was important for him to know, if we were going to be sleeping together. Adam is trustworthy. He earned my trust, and more importantly, my respect." "Sleeping together as in sleeping, or sleeping together as in fucking?" Amy asked. "Yes," Kim answered simply. "So he did force himself on you!" "Certainly Not!" Kim answered. "No. he didn't. In fact, the first time we did anything we were laying on the top of the mountain in the sun and I asked him, actually I pulled his hand between my legs, and he fingered me off to a very pleasant orgasm. Sex didn't come until later." "So you asked him for sex?" "I did. And to his credit, he even resisted. He was a perfect gentleman that first night. Even rolling over so that I had privacy while I cleaned up. I wasn't exactly used to washing myself in a little pan of hot water, but I made due. The next day we went on a hike and he showed me the top of the mountain. That's where we played with each other. And yes, it was My request. Even then, with me laying completely naked next to him, my hand rubbing his quite pleasant cock, he still didn't press me for sex. It wasn't until after the storm and getting warmed up by the fire that I made love to him. I took the initiative and yes my sweet Amy, I made love to him right here in front of the fireplace." "But you swore off men years ago." "As did you. Do you remember why?" "Yeah. Men are thick headed jerks that want nothing more than to bang you and leave you like a used piece of trash," Amy said with a frown. "We were wrong, Amy. Not all men are that way. Some are even pretty decent. But there are some that are even more than decent. The one thing that Adam did that really changed my mind about him was that he threw me in the lake!" "And that told you he was a nice guy? Hell it sounds like he was being mean." "On the contrary," Kim said as she started moving around the small room, setting plates on the table. "I was the one being mean. In fact, I was being a royal pain in his ass. And because of that, he threw me in the lake. He’s a man of his word.” "Doesn't sound like a very nice thing to do." Kim pulled a tray from the ice box and carried it to the small counter by the stove. "Actually, it was exactly what he said he'd do. And he did it, despite the fact that I could have fired his ass for it!" she said as she lit two burners on the stove. "What are you doing," Naked Amy asked, stepping over to the stove to see what Kim was doing. "Cooking dinner. Fried potatoes and fresh trout." "But you don't know how to cook!" "I know how to cook this. Adam taught me. Very patiently I might add," Kim said with a smile. "And you know what? The fish? I caught them and cleaned them myself!" she said proudly. "You? You went fishing?" "I did. Adam taught me how to cast the fly and coached me. I caught all three of these," she said with a smile. "I never knew something like that could be so much fun!" Amy looked at me in confusion. "So this isn't an emergency where you're refusing to come home until I come get you?" "Well. In honesty, I wouldn't call it an emergency. But yes. I was refusing to come home until you came," Kim answered as she carefully placed potato slices into the oil she'd poured in one of the big cast iron pans. "Now you and Adam go sit on the bed while I cook." "On the bed?" Amy asked. "Of course. It's much more comfortable than these hard wooden chairs," she said, as she turned toward me. "Go on Adam. Out of the kitchen!  I mean it. Go sit with her on the bed. No better yet, why don't you lay down with her. Much more comfortable. And before you ask, Amy, no, you can not put any clothes on." Kim gave clear orders. "Why?" Amy asked, her brow furled. "Because. Since you two met several months ago, he's had a thing for you. He tried to ask you out, but that didn't fly. So now that he's seen you naked, I’s you’ve been enjoying the wonderful view of his amazing cock; I think he should have a chance to also feel you naked. So go snuggle up while I cook this!" I walked to the bed and lay down on close to the wall, propping my back up on a rolled pillow to a reclined position so I could still see Kim working at the stove. Amy seemed irritated as she walked over and sat down on the bed, hard. She was clearly doing this under protest. Kim turned to look across the small room at us. "Damn Amy! I thought you liked Adam!" I couldn't see her face, but I could hear the frown in her voice. "I didn't say I didn't, but that doesn't mean I need to lay naked with him." "Have it your way," Kim said, turning to face the two of us. She reached down to the hem of her dress and pulled it up, skimming it up over her head and tossing it toward the suitcase sitting near the wall, leaving her in nothing but her high heels. I could hear the potatoes starting to sizzle in the pan of hot oil behind her as she stepped over to us. She leaned down and cupped both of Amy's tits as she leaned her face down to Amy's. I could almost hear a moan in the soft sigh Amy let slip as she and Kim's hot wet lips sucked and teased each other, Kim's hands continually working her friend’s soft round breasts. She let go of Amy's tits and slipped her hands around her sides to coax her to move on the bed, getting her to slide back and farther up toward me before gently pushing her back as she broke the long seductive kiss. As Amy's body pressed against mine, with Amy’s head on my right shoulder and her ass resting partly over my hip, Kim reached her hands to mine and pulled them around Amy's body, pressing them over the tits she'd so recently been playing with. "Why don't you let Adam keep you warmed up while I finish cooking?" she whispered before straightening and moving back to the stove. Amy ceased fighting against the idea, but remained passive, with her arms crossed over her belly. I gently began to massage Amy's soft breasts with both of my hands, my cock once again rock hard and pressing against her side. This time Amy didn't object as I squeezed and kneaded her soft tits, letting my thumbs gently slide back and forth across her hard nipples and puckered areola. She took a deep breath and let it out slowly, clearly enjoying my attention. I could hear the sizzle of fish as Kim laid the first of the three fish into the second pan of hot oil, though I doubted that Amy was paying any attention. She'd let her head roll in against my chest, her eyes closed as I gently teased her hard nipples. I let my left hand side down from her breast across her firm smooth stomach, gently teasing my fingers through her curly trimmed bush. I felt her momentarily stiffen in my arms, clearly unsure if she really wanted me to touch her where my hand was quite obviously headed. She didn't spread her legs or give me any indication at all that she wanted me to either continue or stop, so I let my hand reach to her left thigh and gently stroke my fingers up and down it, while my other hand continued to stroke and massage her right breast. She got goosebumps when I made first contact with her inner thigh, but within a few breaths, her body started hungering for more. She slowly relaxed against me as my fingers stroked up and down her thigh, slowly moving to the inside of her leg. I felt her weight shift slightly as she spread her legs, finally allowing my fingers to stroke all the way up her thigh to her pussy lips. I took that as an invitation, though a timid one. I let my fingers slow as they reached the juncture of her legs, letting just one finger stroke up and around the side of her pussy, more in the crease of her leg than on her full round pussy lip. I stroked down again, as far as my arm could reach before starting up again, this time her hand connecting with mine as I approached the end of my stroke. She drew my hand closer to her pussy, not letting go until my fingers were on her very wet lips. I could feel the hot wetness seep into my fingers as I pressed them gently against her round outer lips and the small amount of inner lip protruding. I pressed my middle finger gently and felt it slip between her lips, easily dipping into the wet depths between them. I slowly stroked my finger up, drawing it along her pubic bone, until I finally felt the hard press of her clitoris. "Oh fuck," she moaned softly as my finger drew along her hard nub, a slight shudder racing through her body. I dipped my finger back down between her lips, sliding it along and between her lips until I could feel the entrance to her soft depths. I curled my finger and let it press into her as she rolled her hips toward me, encouraging me to press into her. I drew my finger slowly out of her again, stroking up the length of her slit until I once again found her clit, stroking across and around it for long seconds. I started back down toward her entrance again, but her hand found mine and drew it back up again. "Don't stop. Please don't stop," she moaned, pressing my fingers against her clit as she drew her feet onto the bed and pushed her knees apart, spreading her pussy for my fingers. "If you want," I whispered, concentrating my strokes on and around her hard exposed clit. I worked the tip of my finger across her hard nub, rolling it and stroking it before circling my finger around and around it. I heard her moans grow in depth and length as she tried to push her pussy toward my hand, her arms and legs periodically shuddering. "Oh god," she whispered as the shudders grew in intensity. "Oh God!" she cried loudly, her whole body seeming to dissolve into shudders against me. I continued to stroke her clit until she reached for my hand and drew it away, whispering "enough" breathlessly. "If you two are done, dinner is ready," Kim said from where she stood next to the little kitchen table, wearing the gray t-shirt I'd loaned her days before to cook in. Cooking fried food naked isn't exactly what I would call fun. Maybe fun to look at, but definitely NOT fun when the food spatters at you. "Um. Yeah. Sure," Amy said, gently pushing herself up off of me without looking back at me. She got up and walked to the table without looking at me. I pushed myself off the bed and headed to the table, my hard cock swinging side to side with each step. Pulling out a chair I sat down across from where Kim stood, Amy on my left and an empty chair on my right for Kim. "Looks great!" I said with a smile, looking up at a beaming Kim. "You've got this dish down pat! Ready for something new tomorrow?" "I think maybe," Kim said as she sat in the chair across from Amy. She looked across the table at her friend expectantly. "You cooked this?" Amy asked, picking up her fork and using it to flake a section of trout off the bones. "You saw me. Well, mostly saw me. When you weren't in the throes of ecstasy that is." "I wasn't in the throes of ecstasy!" Amy snapped as she lifted the fork of fish to her mouth. "Damn! This is good!" "Thank you!" Kim beamed. "In the morning you can try my other specialty. Ham and eggs. Still trying to get the eggs right though. You know. I never knew how hard it was to make over easy really come out over easy and not broken scrambled messes!" "You cook breakfast too?" "Uh huh. Adam taught me. Said that everyone should know how to make enough things to survive on," Kim said as she scooped some fish into her own mouth. Yumm. Almost as good as sex." "Seriously? As good as sex?" Amy asked with a chuckle. "Well, average sex anyway. I mean not Adam sex. Hell, I don't think I've ever eaten a meal that tops how that makes me feel." "So you two have been having a regular sex party?" Amy asked, her face darkening in apparent anger. "I wouldn't call it a sex party. More like an intimate sharing of some really incredibly wonderful moments. He makes me climax so damn hard, no matter how we do it. I mean it's almost mind blowing how well he can manipulate my body to make my climax hold off and hold off until I'm ready to scream and then it washes over me like a tidal wave! God he's good at that!" To be continued. By m storyman x, for Literotica.

"Life is suffering" may be a Noble Truth, but it feels like a deepity. Yes, obviously life includes suffering. But it also includes happiness. Many people live good and happy lives, and even people with hard lives experience some pleasant moments. This is the starting point of many people's objection to Buddhism. They continue: if nirvana is just a peaceful state beyond joy or suffering, it sounds like a letdown. An endless gray mist of bare okayness, like death or Britain. If your life was previously good, it's a step down. Even if your life sucked, maybe you would still prefer the heroism of high highs and low lows to eternal blah. Against all this, many Buddhists claim to be able to reach jhana, a state described as better than sex or heroin - and they say nirvana is even better than that. Partly it's better because jhana is temporary and nirvana permanent, but it's also better on a moment-to-moment basis. So nirvana must mean something beyond bare okayness. But then why the endless insistence that life is suffering and the best you can do is make it stop? I don't know the orthodox Buddhist answer to this question. But I got the rationalist techno-Buddhists' answer from lsusr a few months ago, and found it, uh, enlightening. He said: mental valence works like temperature. Naively, there are two kinds of temperature: hot and cold. When an environment stops being hot, then it's neutral - "room temperature" - neither hot nor cold. After that, you can add arbitrary amounts of coldness, making it colder and colder. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/in-what-sense-is-life-suffering

This episode's guest, Tracey Nguyen Mang, is the founder and creator of the Vietnamese Boat People podcast, an award winning podcast which shares the stories of the Vietnamese diaspora, and something that has often been discussed with previous guests on this show. Tracey was born the youngest of seven children, in Nha Trang Vietnam before her family risked their lives to flee Vietnam.Tracey was just three when her family made it to the United States, where there were few Vietnamese people at the time. Growing up in New Orleans and North Virginia, speaking Vietnamese at home as her first language, she went to a public school where she was one of just a few minorities and in an effort to assimilate suppressing her “history and heritage to adapt and assimilate”. Partly due to the trauma of their journey and the will to fit into their new surroundings the family didn't talk about their past.Season 7 is sponsored by Blue Dragon's Children's Foundation and Saigon Children's Foundation. Please donate if you are in a position to.https://www.bluedragon.org/donate/https://www.saigonchildren.com/engage/covid-19-crisis-2/Follow us on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/SevenMillionBikesBuy us a coffeehttps://ko-fi.com/sevenmillionbikesSupport the showhttps://www.patreon.com/AVietnamPodcast-------------------Theme music composed by Lewis Wright.Main Cover Art designed by Niall Mackay and Le Nguyen.Episode art designed by Niall Mackay, with pictures supplied by guests and used with permission."Send me a message!"Vote now for Discover Vietnam! The full list of winners is here. Support the show

China's Debt Dilemma and Keir Starmer's Political Trouble — Joseph Sternberg — Sternberg analyzes China'scritical economic vulnerabilities, noting that its $2.2 trillion in global lending—partly channeled through the Belt and Road Initiative—faces mounting pressure from defaults and political resistance to Chinese asset ownership. Domestically, China restricts capital inflows to manage inflation and stabilize exchange rates. Sternberg also examines UK politics, noting that Labour leader Keir Starmer faces mounting political difficulties ahead of a challenging budget that lacks an articulated economic growth strategy. 1700 WINDSOR CASTLE

Partly inspired by Wrexham FC, NRL legend Darren Lockyer and business partner Grant Wechsel are trying to turn around the infamous but often calamitous English club the London Broncos. The pair will lean on Papua New Guinea talent to help drive their ambition with six players heading to England. Featured: Kyle Evans, ABC journalist. Darren Lockyer NRL great. Grant Wechsel London Broncos co-owner.Subscribe to the ABC Sport Newsletter

Some AM Fog, Near Record highs this afternoon • Tracking the potential for areas of fog in NE Florida and SE Georgia this morning, especially near and north of I-10. o Dense fog advisory until 9 AM for many local counties. • No rain again today • Highs will be in the lower to mid 80s this afternoon, near the daily record of 85 (1992). • Near or record breaking highs return tomorrow before a Thanksgiving cool down. • A cold front will move through our area late Wednesday. o An isolated shower is possible, especially NW of Jacksonville, as the front approaches Wednesday. • Thanksgiving Day: Turning mostly sunny and much cooler. Highs in the lower to mid 60s with no rain. • We see the 30s by Friday morning. TROPICS: • No active storms. • Hurricane season ends November 30. TODAY: Some AM Fog. Partly to mostly sunny, especially in the afternoon. HIGH: 84 (Record: 85 - 1992) TONIGHT: Mostly clear and cool, areas of fog. LOW: 60 WEDNESDAY: Increasing clouds, very warm. Isolated shower possible. 60/85 (Record: 84 - 1946) THANKSGIVING: Partly to mostly sunny, dry, breezy, cooler. 49/66 FRIDAY: Chilly, mostly sunny. 39/60 SATURDAY: Partly sunny. 39/69 SUNDAY: Partly sunny. Isolated shower possible. 56/75 MONDAY: Partly sunny. Isolated shower possible. 57/78

Volatility returned to the stock market this week.Partly due to growing concerns about the sustainability of the AI spending boom.Partly due to further stresses building in the credit market.And also due to a growing shortfall of liquidity.Portfolio manager Michael Lebowitz and I discuss each of these in depth in this week's Market Recap.For everything that mattered to markets this week, watch this video.WORRIED ABOUT THE MARKET? SCHEDULE YOUR FREE PORTFOLIO REVIEW with Thoughtful Money's endorsed financial advisors at https://www.thoughtfulmoney.com#artificialintelligence #federalreserve #liquidity _____________________________________________ Thoughtful Money LLC is a Registered Investment Advisor Promoter.We produce educational content geared for the individual investor. It's important to note that this content is NOT investment advice, individual or otherwise, nor should be construed as such.We recommend that most investors, especially if inexperienced, should consider benefiting from the direction and guidance of a qualified financial advisor registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) or state securities regulators who can develop & implement a personalized financial plan based on a customer's unique goals, needs & risk tolerance.IMPORTANT NOTE: There are risks associated with investing in securities.Investing in stocks, bonds, exchange traded funds, mutual funds, money market funds, and other types of securities involve risk of loss. Loss of principal is possible. Some high risk investments may use leverage, which will accentuate gains & losses. Foreign investing involves special risks, including a greater volatility and political, economic and currency risks and differences in accounting methods.A security's or a firm's past investment performance is not a guarantee or predictor of future investment performance.Thoughtful Money and the Thoughtful Money logo are trademarks of Thoughtful Money LLC.Copyright © 2025 Thoughtful Money LLC. All rights reserved.

Greg Morse | Under God, why did the ministry of Charles Spurgeon bring so many to saving faith? Partly because he did not shrink from preaching the bad news.

When Daniel Kokotajlo talks to security experts at major AI labs, they tell him something chilling: “Of course we're probably penetrated by the CCP already, and if they really wanted something, they could take it.”This isn't paranoid speculation. It's the working assumption of people whose job is to protect frontier AI models worth billions of dollars. And they're not even trying that hard to stop it — because the security measures that might actually work would slow them down in the race against competitors.Full transcript, highlights, and links to learn more: https://80k.info/dkDaniel is the founder of the AI Futures Project and author of AI 2027, a detailed scenario showing how we might get from today's AI systems to superintelligence by the end of the decade. Over a million people read it in the first few weeks, including US Vice President JD Vance. When Daniel talks to researchers at Anthropic, OpenAI, and DeepMind, they tell him the scenario feels less wild to them than to the general public — because many of them expect something like this to happen.Daniel's median timeline? 2029. But he's genuinely uncertain, putting 10–20% probability on AI progress hitting a long plateau.When he first published AI 2027, his median forecast for when superintelligence would arrive was 2027, rather than 2029. So what shifted his timelines recently? Partly a fascinating study from METR showing that AI coding assistants might actually be making experienced programmers slower — even though the programmers themselves think they're being sped up. The study suggests a systematic bias toward overestimating AI effectiveness — which, ironically, is good news for timelines, because it means we have more breathing room than the hype suggests.But Daniel is also closely tracking another METR result: AI systems can now reliably complete coding tasks that take humans about an hour. That capability has been doubling every six months in a remarkably straight line. Extrapolate a couple more years and you get systems completing month-long tasks. At that point, Daniel thinks we're probably looking at genuine AI research automation — which could cause the whole process to accelerate dramatically.At some point, superintelligent AI will be limited by its inability to directly affect the physical world. That's when Daniel thinks superintelligent systems will pour resources into robotics, creating a robot economy in months.Daniel paints a vivid picture: imagine transforming all car factories (which have similar components to robots) into robot production factories — much like historical wartime efforts to redirect production of domestic goods to military goods. Then imagine the frontier robots of today hooked up to a data centre running superintelligences controlling the robots' movements to weld, screw, and build. Or an intermediate step might even be unskilled human workers coached through construction tasks by superintelligences via their phones.There's no reason that an effort like this isn't possible in principle. And there would be enormous pressure to go this direction: whoever builds a superintelligence-powered robot economy first will get unheard-of economic and military advantages.From there, Daniel expects the default trajectory to lead to AI takeover and human extinction — not because superintelligent AI will hate humans, but because it can better pursue its goals without us.But Daniel has a better future in mind — one he puts roughly 25–30% odds that humanity will achieve. This future involves international coordination and hardware verification systems to enforce AI development agreements, plus democratic processes for deciding what values superintelligent AIs should have — because in a world with just a handful of superintelligent AI systems, those few minds will effectively control everything: the robot armies, the information people see, the shape of civilisation itself.Right now, nobody knows how to specify what values those minds will have. We haven't solved alignment. And we might only have a few more years to figure it out.Daniel and host Luisa Rodriguez dive deep into these stakes in today's interview.What did you think of the episode? https://forms.gle/HRBhjDZ9gfM8woG5AThis episode was recorded on September 9, 2025.Chapters:Cold open (00:00:00)Who's Daniel Kokotajlo? (00:00:37)Video: We're Not Ready for Superintelligence (00:01:31)Interview begins: Could China really steal frontier model weights? (00:36:26)Why we might get a robot economy incredibly fast (00:42:34)AI 2027's alternate ending: The slowdown (01:01:29)How to get to even better outcomes (01:07:18)Updates Daniel's made since publishing AI 2027 (01:15:13)How plausible are longer timelines? (01:20:22)What empirical evidence is Daniel looking out for to decide which way things are going? (01:40:27)What post-AGI looks like (01:49:41)Whistleblower protections and Daniel's unsigned NDA (02:04:28)Audio engineering: Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic ArmstrongMusic: CORBITCoordination, transcriptions, and web: Katy Moore

Danielle (00:20):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations about reality and talking a lot about what that means in the context of church, faith, race, justice, religion, all the things. Today, I'm so honored to have Sarah Van Gelder, a community leader, an example of working and continuing to work on building solidarity and networks and communication skills and settling into her lane. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hey, Sarah, it's so good to be with you. And these are just casual conversations, and I do actual minimal editing, but they do get a pretty good reach, so that's exciting. I would love to hear you introduce yourself. How do you introduce yourself these days? Tell me a little bit about who you are. Okay.Sarah (01:14):My name is Sarah Van Gelder and I live in Bremer and Washington. I just retired after working for the Suquamish Tribe for six years, so I'm still in the process of figuring out what it means to be retired, doing a lot of writing, a certain amount of activism, and of course, just trying to figure out day to day, how to deal with the latest, outrageous coming from the administration. But that's the most recent thing. I think what I'm most known for is the founding yes magazine and being the editor for many years. So I still think a lot about how do we understand that we're in an era that's essentially collapsing and something new may be emerging to take its place? How do we understand what this moment is and really give energy to the emergence of something new? So those are sort of the foundational questions that I think about.Danielle (02:20):Okay. Those are big questions. I hadn't actually imagined that something new is going to emerge, but I do agree there is something that's collapsing, that's disintegrating. As you know, I reached out about how are we thinking about what is reality and what is not? And you can kind of see throughout the political spectrum or community, depending on who you're with and at what time people are viewing the world through a specific lens. And of course, we always are. We have our own lens, and some people allow other inputs into that lens. Some people are very specific, what they allow, what they don't allow. And so what do we call as reality when it comes to reality and politics or reality and faith or gender, sexuality? It's feeling more and more separate. And so that's kind of why I reached out to you. I know you're a thinker. I know you're a writer, and so I was wondering, as you think about those topics, what do you think even just about what I've said or where does your mind go?Sarah (03:32):Yeah. Well, at first when you said that was the topic, I was a little intimidated by it because it sounded a little abstract. But then I started thinking about how it is so hard right now to know what's real, partly because there's this very conscious effort to distort reality and get people to accept lies. And I think actually part of totalitarian work is to get people to just in the Orwellian book 1984, the character had to agree that two plus two equals five. And only when he had fully embraced that idea could he be considered really part of society.(04:14):So there's this effort to get us to accept things that we actually know aren't true. And there's a deep betrayal that takes place when we do that, when we essentially gaslight ourselves to say something is true when we know it's not. And I think for a lot of people who have, I think that's one of the reasons the Republican party is in such trouble right now, is because so many people who in previous years might've had some integrity with their own belief system, have had to toss that aside to adopt the lies of the Trump administration, for example, that the 2020 election was stolen. And if they don't accept those lies, they get rejected from the party. And once you accept those lies, then from then on you have betrayed yourself. And in many ways, you've betrayed the people who trust you. So it's a really tough dilemma sort of at that political level, even for people who have not bought into the MAGA mindset, or I do think of it as many people have described as a cult.(05:31):Now, even for people who have not bought into that, I think it's just really hard to be in a world where so many fundamental aspects of reality are not shared with people in your own family, in your own workplace, in your own community. I think it's incredibly challenging and we don't really know, and I certainly don't know how to have conversations. In fact, this is a question I wanted to ask you to have conversations across that line of reality because there's so much places where feelings get hurt, but there's also hard to reference back to any shared understanding in order to start with some kind of common ground. It feels like the ground is just completely unreliable. But I'd love to hear your thoughts about how you think about that.Danielle (06:33):It's interesting. I have some family members that are on the far, far, including my parent, well, not my parents exactly, but my father, and I've known this for a while. So prior to what happened in a couple weeks ago with the murder of an activist, I had spent a lot of time actually listening to that activist and trying to understand what he stood for, what he said, why my family was so interested in it. I spent time reading. And then I also was listening to, I don't know if you're familiar with the Midas Touch podcast? Yeah. So I listened to the Midas Brothers, and they're exact opposites. They're like, one is saying, you idiot, and the other one is like, oh, you're an idiot. And so when I could do it, when I had space to do it, it was actually kind of funny to me.(07:34):Sometimes I'm like, oh, that's what they think of someone that thinks like me. And that's when that guy says, calls them an idiot. I feel some resonance with that. So I did that a lot. However, practically speaking, just recently in the last couple months, someone reached out to me from across the political ideology line and said, Hey, wouldn't it be fun if we got together and talked? We think really differently. We've known each other for 20 years. Could you do that? So I said, I thought about it and I was like, yeah, I say this, I should act on it. I should follow through. So I said, okay, yeah, let's meet. We set up a time. And when you get that feeling like that person's not going to show up, but you're also feeling like, I don't know if I want them to show up.(08:24):Am I really going to show up? But it's kind of like a game of chicken. Well, I hung in there longer, maybe not because I wanted to show up, but just because I got distracted by my four kids and whatnot, and it was summer, and the other person did say, oh, I sprained my ankle. I can't have a conversation with you. I was like, oh, okay. And they were like, well, let me reschedule. So I waited. I didn't hear back from them, and then they hopped onto one of my Facebook pages and said some stuff, and I responded and I said, Hey, wait a minute. I thought we were going to have a conversation in person. And it was crickets, it was silence, it was nothing. And then I was tagged in some other comments of people that I would consider even more extreme. And just like, this is an example of intolerance.(09:13):And I was like, whoa, how did I get here? How did I get here? And like I said, I'm not innocent. I associate some of the name calling and I have those explicit feelings. And I was struck by that. And then in my own personal family, we started a group chat and it did not go well. As soon as we jumped into talking about immigration and ice enforcement and stuff after there were two sides stated, and then the side that was on the far right side said, well, there's no point in talking anymore. We're not going to convince each other. And my brother and I were like, wait a minute, can we keep talking? We're not going to convince each other, but how can we just stop talking? And it's just been crickets. It's been silence. There's been nothing. So I think as you ask me that, I just feel like deep pain, how can we not have the things I think, or my perception of what the other side believes is extremely harmful to me and my family. But what feels even more harmful is the fact that we can't even talk about it. There's no tolerance to hear how hurtful that is to us or the real impact on our day-to-day life. And I think this, it's not just the ideology, but it's the inability to even just have some empathy there. And then again, if you heard a guy like Charlie Kirk, he didn't believe in empathy. So I have to remember, okay, maybe they don't even believe in empathy. Okay, so I don't have an answer. What about you?Sarah (11:03):No, I don't either. Except to say that I think efforts that are based on trying to convince someone of a rational argument don't work because this is not about analysis or about rationality, it's about identity, and it's about deep feelings of fear and questions of worthiness. And I think part of this moment we're in with the empire collapsing, the empire that has shorn up so much of our way of life, even people who've been at the margins of it, obviously not as much, but particularly people who are middle class or aspiring to be middle class or upper, that has been where we get our sense of security, where we get our sense of meaning. For a lot of white people, it's their sense of entitlement that they get to have. They're entitled to certain kinds of privileges and ways of life. So if that's collapsing and I believe it is, then that's a very scary time and it's not well understood. So then somebody comes along who's a strong man like Trump and says, not only can I explain it to you, but I can keep you safe. I can be your vengeance against all the insults that you've had to live with. And it's hard to give that up because of somebody coming at you with a rational discussion.(12:36):I think the only way to give that up is to have something better or more secure or more true to lean into. Now that's really hard to do because part of the safety on the right is by totally rejecting the other. And so my sense is, and I don't know if this can possibly work, but my sense is that the only thing that might work is creating nonpolitical spaces where people can just get to know each other as human beings and start feeling that yes, that person is there for me when things are hard and that community is there for me, and they also see me and appreciate who I am. And based on that kind of foundation, I think there's some hope. And so when I think about the kind of organizing to be doing right now, a lot of it really is about just saying, we really all care about our kids and how do we make sure they have good schools and we all need some good healthcare, and let's make sure that that's available to everybody. And just as much as possible keeps it within that other realm. And even maybe not even about issues, maybe it's just about having a potluck and enjoying food together.Danielle (14:10):What structures or how do you know then that you're in reality? And do you have an experience of actually being in a mixed group like that with people that think wildly different than you? And how did that experience inform you? And maybe it's recently, maybe it's in the past. Yeah,Sarah (14:32):So in some respects, I feel like I've lived that way all my life,(14:44):Partly because I spent enough time outside the United States that when I came home as a child, our family lived in India for a year. And so when I came home, I just had this sense that my life, my life and my perceptions of the world were really different than almost everybody else around me, but the exception of other people who'd also spent a lot of time outside the us. And somehow we understood each other pretty well. But most of my life, I felt like I was seeing things differently. And I don't feel like I've ever really particularly gained a lot of skill in crossing that I've tended to just for a lot of what I'm thinking about. I just don't really talk about it except with a few people who are really interested. I don't actually know a lot about how to bridge that gap, except again, to tell stories, to use language that is non-academic, to use language that is part of ordinary people's lives.(16:01):So yes, magazine, that was one of the things that I focused a lot on is we might do some pretty deep analysis, and some of it might include really drawing on some of the best academic work that we could find. But when it came to what we were going to actually produce in the magazine, we really focused in on how do we make this language such that anybody who picks this up who at least feels comfortable reading? And that is a barrier for some people, but anybody who feels comfortable reading can say, yeah, this is written with me in mind. This is not for another group of people. This is written for me. And then part of that strategy was to say, okay, if you can feel that way about it, can you also then feel comfortable sharing it with other people where you feel like they're going to feel invited in and they won't feel like, okay, I'm not your audience.(16:57):I'm not somebody you're trying to speak to. So that's pretty much, I mean, just that whole notion of language and telling stories and using the age old communication as human beings, we evolved to learn by stories. And you can tell now just because you try to tell a kid some lesson and their eyes will roll, but if you tell them a story, they will listen. They won't necessarily agree, but they will listen and it will at least be something they'll think about. So stories is just so essential. And I think that authentic storytelling from our own experience that feels like, okay, I'm not just trying to tell you how you should believe, but I'm trying to say something about my own experience and what's happened to me and where my strength comes from and where my weaknesses and my challenges come from as well.Yeah, you mentioned that, and I was thinking about good stories. And so one of the stories I like to tell is that I moved to Suquamish, which is as an Indian reservation, without knowing really anything about the people I was going to be neighbors with. And there's many stories I could tell you about that. But one of them was that I heard that they were working to restore the ability to dig clams and dies inlet, which is right where silver Dial is located. And I remember thinking that place is a mess. You're never going to be able to have clean enough water because clams require really clean water. They're down filtering all the crap that comes into the water, into their bodies. And so you don't want to eat clams unless the water's very clean. But I remember just having this thought from my perspective, which is find a different place to dig clamps because that place is a mess.(19:11):And then years later, I found out it was now clean enough that they were digging clamps. And I realized that for them, spending years and years, getting the water cleaned up was the obvious thing to do because they think in terms of multiple generations, and they don't give up on parts of their water or their land. So it took years to do it, but they stayed with it. And so that was really a lesson for me in that kind of sense of reality, because my sense of reality is, no, you move on. You do what the pioneers did. One place gets the dust bowl and you move to a different place to farm. And learning to see from the perspective of not only other individuals, but other cultures that have that long millennia of experience in place and how that shifts things. It's almost like to me, it's like if you're looking at the world through one cultural lens, it's like being a one eyed person. You certainly see things, but when you open up your other eye and you can start seeing things in three dimensions, it becomes so much more alive and so much more rich with information and with possibilities.Danielle (20:35):Well, when you think about, and there's a lot probably, how do you apply that to today or even our political landscape? We're finding reality today.Sarah (20:48):Well, I think that the MAGA cult is very, very one eyed. And again, because that sense of safety and identity is so tied up in maintaining that they're not necessarily going to voluntarily open a second eye. But if they do, it would probably be because of stories. There's a story, and I think things like the Jimmy Kimmel thing is an example of that.(21:21):There's a story of someone who said what he believed and was almost completely shut down. And the reason that didn't happen is because people rose up and said, no, that's unacceptable. So I think there's a fundamental belief that's widespread enough that we don't shut down people for speech unless it's so violent that it's really dangerous. We don't shut people down for that. So I think when there's that kind of dissonance, I think there's sometimes an opening, and then it's really important to use that opening, not as a time to celebrate that other people were wrong and we were right, but to celebrate these values that free speech is really important and we're going to stand up for it, and that's who we are. So we get back to that identity. You can feel proud that you were part of this movement that helped make sure that free speech is maintained in the United States. Oh, that'sDanielle (22:26):Very powerful. Yeah, because one side of my family is German, and they're the German Mennonites. They settled around the Black Sea region, and then the other side is Mexican. But these settlers were invited by Catherine the Great, and she was like, Hey, come over here. And Mennonites had a history of non-violence pacifist movement. They didn't want to be conscripted into the German army. And so this was also attractive for them because they were skilled farmers and they had a place to go and Russia and farm. And so that's why they left Germany, to go to Russia to want to seek freedom of their religion and use their farming skills till the soil as well as not be conscripted into violent political movements. That's the ancestry of the side of my family that is now far.(23:29):And I find, and of course, they came here and when they were eventually kicked out, and part of that them being kicked out was then them moving to the Dakotas and then kicking out the native tribes men that were there on offer from the US government. So you see the perpetuation of harm, and I guess I just wonder what all of that cost my ancestors, what it cost them to enact harm that they had received themselves. And then there was a shift. Some of them went to World War II as conscientious objectors, a couple went as fighters.(24:18):So then you start seeing that shift. I'm no longer, I'm not like a pacifist. You start seeing the shift and then we're to today, I don't know if those black sea farmers that moved to Russia would be looking down and being good job. Those weren't the values it seems like they were pursuing. So I even, I've been thinking a lot about that and just what does that reality mean here? What separations, what splitting has my family had to do to, they changed from these deeply. To move an entire country means you're very committed to your values, uproot your life, even if you're farming and you're going to be good at it somewhere else, it's a big deal.Sarah (25:10):Oh, yeah. So it also could be based on fear, right? Because I think so many of the people who immigrated here were certainly my Jewish heritage. There is this long history of pilgrims and people would get killed. And so it wasn't necessarily that for a lot of people that they really had an option to live where they were. And of course, today's refugees, a lot of 'em are here for the same reason. But I think one of the things that happened in the United States is the assimilation into whiteness.(25:49):So as white people, it's obviously different for different communities, but if you came in here and you Irish people and Italians and so forth were despised at certain times and Jews and Quakers even. But over time, if you were white, you could and many did assimilate. And what did assimilate into whiteness? First of all, whiteness is not a culture, and it's kind of bereft of real meaning because the real cultures were the original Irish and Italian. But the other thing is that how you make whiteness a community, if you will, is by excluding other people, is by saying, well, we're different than these other folks. So I don't know if this applies to your ancestors or not, but it is possible that part of what their assimilation to the United States was is to say, okay, we are white people and we are entitled to this land in North Dakota because we're not native. And so now our identity is people who are secure on the land, who have title to it and can have a livelihood and can raise our children in security. That is all wrapped up in us not being native and in our government, keeping native people from reclaiming that land.(27:19):So that starts shifting over generations. Certainly, it can certainly shift the politics. And I think that plus obviously the sense of entitlement that so many people felt to and feel to their slave holding ancestors, that was a defensible thing to do. And saying it's not is a real challenge to somebody's identity.(27:51):So in that respect, that whole business that Trump is doing or trying to restore the Confederate statues, those were not from the time of slavery. Those were from after reconstruction. Those were part of the south claiming that it had the moral authority and the moral right to do these centuries long atrocities against enslaved people. And so to me, that's still part of the fundamental identity struggle we're in right now, is people saying, if I identify as white, yes, I get all this safety and all these privileges, but I also have this burden of this history and history that's continuing today, and how do I reconcile those two? And Trump says, you don't have to. You can just be proud of what you have perpetrated or what your ancestors perpetrated on other people.And I think there was some real too. I think there were people who honestly felt that they wanted to reconcile the, and people I think who are more willing to have complex thoughts about this country because there are things to be proud of, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the long history of protecting free speech and journalism and education for everyone and so forth. So there are definitely things to be proud of. And then there are things to recognize. We're incredibly violent and have had multiple generations of trauma resulting from it. And to live in this country in authenticity is to recognize that both are true and we're stuck with the history, but we're not stuck without being able to deal with that. We can do restitution and reparations and we can heal from that.Danielle (30:15):How do you stay connected even just to your own self in that dissonance that you just described?Sarah (30:30):Well, I think part of having compassion is to recognize that we're imperfect beings as individuals, but we're also imperfect as cultures. And so for me, I can live with, I mean, this is something I've lived with ever since I was in India, really. And I looked around and noticed that there were all these kids my own age who were impoverished and I was not. And that I knew I have enough to eat at the end of the day, and I knew that many of them would not have enough to eat. So it's always been a challenge for me. And so my response to that has been when I was a kid was, well, I don't understand how that happened. It's certainly not right. I don't understand how it could be, and I'm going to do my best to understand it, and then I'll do my part to try to change it. And I basically had the same view ever since then, which is there's only so much I can do, but I'll do everything I can, including examining my own complicity and working through issues that I might be carrying as somebody who grew up in a white supremacist culture, working on that internally, and then also working in community and working as an activist in a writer in any way I can think of that I can make a contribution.(31:56):But I really do believe that healing is possible. And so when I think about the people that are causing that I feel like are not dealing with the harm that they're creating, I still feel just somebody who goes to prison for doing a crime that's not the whole of who they are. And so they're going to have to ultimately make the choice about whether they're going to heal and reconcile and repair the damage they will have to make that choice. But for my part, I always want to keep that door open in my relationship with them and in my writing and in any other way, I want to keep the door open.Danielle (32:43):And I hear that, and I'm like, that's noble. And it's so hard to do to keep that door open. So what are some of the tools you use, even just on your own that help you keep that door open to conversation, even to feeling compassion for people maybe you don't agree with? What are some of the things, maybe their internal resources, external resources could be like, I don't know, somebody you read, go back to and read. Yeah. What helps you?Sarah (33:16):Well, the most important thing for me to keep my sanity is a combination of getting exercise and getting outside(33:27):And hanging out with my granddaughter and other people I love outside of political spaces because the political spaces get back into the stress. So yeah, I mean the exercise, I just feel like being grounded in our bodies is so important. And partly that the experience of fear and anxiety show up in our bodies, and we can also process them through being really active. So I'm kind of worried that if I get to the point where I'm too old to be able to really move, whether I'll be able to process as well. So there's that in terms of the natural world, this aliveness that I feel like transcends me and certainly humanity and just an aliveness that I just kind of open my senses to. And then it's sort, they call it forest bathing or don't have to be in a forest to do it, but just sort of allowing that aliveness to wash over me and to sort of celebrate it and to remember that we're all part of that aliveness. And then spending time with a 2-year-old is like, okay, anything that I may be hung up on, it becomes completely irrelevant to her experience.Danielle (35:12):I love that. Sarah, for you, even though I know you heard, you're still asking these questions yourself, what would you tell people to do if they're listening and they're like, and they're like, man, I don't know how to even start a conversation with someone that thinks different than me. I don't know how to even be in the same room them, and I'm not saying that your answers can apply to everybody. Mine certainly don't either, like you and me are just having a conversation. We're just talking it out. But what are some of the things you go to if you know you're going to be with people Yeah. That think differently than you, and how do you think about it?Sarah (35:54):Yeah, I mean, I don't feel particularly proud of this because I don't feel very capable of having a direct conversation with somebody who's, because I don't know how to get to a foundational level that we have in common, except sometimes we do. Sometimes it's like family, and sometimes it's like, what did you do for the weekend? And so it can feel like small talk, but it can also have an element of just recognizing that we're each in a body, in perhaps in a family living our lives struggling with how to live well. And so I usually don't try to get very far beyond that, honestly. And again, I'm not proud of that because I would love to have conversations that are enlightening for me and the other person. And my go-to is really much more basic than that.Maybe it is. And maybe it creates enough sense of safety that someday that other level of conversation can happen, even if it can't happen right away.Danielle (37:14):Well, Sarah, tell me if people are looking for your writing and know you write a blog, tell me a little bit about that and where to find you. Okay.Sarah (37:26):Yeah, my blog is called How We Rise, and it's on Substack. And so I'm writing now and then, and I'm also writing somewhat for Truth Out Truth out.org has adopted the Yes Archive, which I'm very grateful to them for because they're going to keep it available so people can continue to research and find articles there that are still relevant. And they're going to be continuing to do a monthly newsletter where they're going to draw on Yes, archives to tell stories about what's going on now. Yes, archives that are specifically relevant. So I recommend that. And otherwise, I'm just right now working on a draft of an op-ed about Palestine, which I hope I can get published. So I'm sort of doing a little of this and a little of that, but I don't feel like I have a clear focus. The chaos of what's going on nationally is so overwhelming, and I keep wanting to come back to my own and my own focus of writing, but I can't say that I've gotten there yet.Danielle (38:41):I hear you. Well, I hope you'll be back, and hopefully we can have more conversations. And just thanks a lot for being willing to just talk about stuff we don't know everything about.As always, thank you for joining us, and at the end of the podcast are notes and resources, and I encourage you to stay connected to those who are loving in your path and in your community. Stay tuned.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

 Colonel Grant Newsham assesses South Korea's leftist President Yoon Suk Yeol, describing him as pro-China and anti-US, despite his vow to increase defense spending. Newsham views this spending partly as a tactical ploy to avoid reliance on US troops. Separately, he highlights Chinese influence and rampant corruption in the US territory of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), which is brazenly seeking $100 million from the USdespite $1.6 billion having vanished. 1911 PEKING UNIVERSITY

 Colonel Grant Newsham assesses South Korea's leftist President Yoon Suk Yeol, describing him as pro-China and anti-US, despite his vow to increase defense spending. Newsham views this spending partly as a tactical ploy to avoid reliance on US troops. Separately, he highlights Chinese influence and rampant corruption in the US territory of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), which is brazenly seeking $100 million from the USdespite $1.6 billion having vanished.

Jimmy Kimmel's brief departure from the airwaves triggered a wave of debate over free speech.  Partly triggering his suspension was the government threatening to leverage its power over pending media deals. That's in part due to a piece of decades-old legislation. Today on the show, we look at how the Telecommunications Act of 1996 set the stage for government meddling and corporate capitulation. Related episodes: Breaking up big business is hard to do Mergers, acquisitions and Elon's “rude” proposal For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

In Part 2, we pick up where we left off in Part 1. Although it made all kinds of sense for Shrey to move halfway around the world to go to art school, he says it was "an uphill battle” convincing his parents of the plan. Still, his mom was and is a champion of her son and his art. It was 2018 and Shrey was 20. We talk about his experience of arriving in San Francisco, a city that was “such a beacon of hope” for him. He dedicated himself to his studies at CCA. He also paid serious attention to the news, and even attempted political art. When that didn't pan out financially, a professor at CCA strongly encouraged Shrey to stay with painting, that it was his lane. This was just before the pandemic. When he got his first stimulus check, Shrey bought an easel and began going out and painting en plein air. He did this so much and promoted his art so well that, by the time he graduated, he had started getting commissions. He was able to become a full-time artist—a dream of his. Shrey is such an artist, through and through, that he even has an art job. Like, a job-job. Four days a week, Shrey works for ArtSpan—a local arts nonprofit possibly best-known for Open Studios. Shrey shares the history of ArtSpan and OpenStudios. What began in 1975 in South of Market as a way for artists shunned by galleries to show their art and sell it today sees around 600 artists opening their studio doors all over The City. Shrey manages the Arts and Neighborhoods program for ArtSpan. That group helps organize exhibitions during Open Studios at non-studio locations. Mission Bowling Club is one such location. In fact, Shrey got his first art show after graduation through help from ArtSpan. It's a beautiful full-circle story. That first show led to other shows. And Shrey credits his entrepreneurial brain for recognizing an opportunity in all of this—if a cafe has suitable walls, you can talk with the owner about hanging art by local artists, promote an opening, and make things happen. And so that's what he did. Partly because putting on one art show, not to mention doing multiple shows at the same, is what the kids refer to as a lot, Shrey focussed his efforts at one location. Ballast Coffee on West Portal became the home of Ingleside Gallery. The first art show at his gallery brought in more than $10,000 in sales. I have to insert some editorial here, so thanks for indulging me. Shrey and I recorded this podcast before our Every Kinda People show. I won't pretend that my own art curation is anywhere close to the level that he (and my friend Anita of KnownSF and countless others around SF, The Bay, and the world) operates on. But Shrey does speak to the nature of both the volume and the intensity of the work that goes into putting on an art show. In my own way, I relate. Back to my and Shrey's conversation, I ask him to talk about how our lives intersected. It was earlier this year after I recorded with Ellen Lo of Ask Me SF. I needed to drop off a Storied: SF hoodie for Ellen, so she asked me to meet her one Saturday morning on Ocean Avenue. She and some friends and community members would be out there painting a mural over a dilapidated street wall in front of a PG&E substation. Sign me up! After politely declining to add my own (attempted) artistic touch to their creation that day, Ellen introduced me to a friend of hers. Right away, I got a sense of that exuberance Shrey embodies, a trait I am now very familiar with. We end the episode with thoughts about the Every Kinda People show, up at Mini Bar through October 19. Follow Shrey on Instagram @shreypurohit and @inglesidegallery.

In advance of our Ger Graus season which will be based on his book Through a Different Lens - Lessons from a Life in Education I have created a summary podcast of our previous conversation (Ep 439) using NotebookLM. This is as - described on it's website - 'the AI research tool and thinking partner that can analyze your sources, turn complexity into clarity and transform your content'.You will hear 2 AI voices discuss and summarise our conversation about Ger's book. Why do this? Partly as a quick recap before we start the Ger Graus season but also to help me understand what is currently possible with AI in advance of our Education on Fire LIVE Stream shows that will focus on AI in education.To keep up to date with everything we are doing and download our FREE top 10 resources pdf please visit https://www.educationonfire.com/

There's a secret app for influencers to get anything for free… and now we know about it.The reason the Late Show industry is getting canceled? Partly business, partly politics… and partly podcasts.“Crypto Week” passed America's 1st three Bitcoin laws… and it reminds us of Julius Caesar.The newest trend in coffee… is serving it in giant plastic buckets.$PARA $NFLX $BTCWant more business storytelling from us? Check out the latest episode of our new weekly deepdive show: The untold origin story of… Michelin Star Ratings ⭐Subscribe to The Best Idea Yet: Wondery.fm/TheBestIdeaYetLinks to listen.TBOY Live Show Tickets to Chicago on sale NOW: https://www.axs.com/events/949346/the-best-one-yet-podcast-ticketsAbout Us: The daily pop-biz news show making today's top stories your business. Formerly known as Robinhood Snacks, TBOY Lite is hosted by Jack Crivici-Kramer & Nick Martell.GET ON THE POD: Submit a shoutout or fact: https://tboypod.com/shoutouts NEWSLETTER:https://tboypod.com/newsletter SOCIALS:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tboypod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tboypodYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tboypod Anything else: https://tboypod.com/ Our 2nd show… The Best Idea Yet: Wondery.fm/TheBestIdeaYetLinksEpisodes drop weekly.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has spent years spreading doubt about the safety of vaccines and linking them to autism. Dozens of studies have debunked the theory, but it has nevertheless persisted for years. Part of the reason why may be that autism diagnoses have soared over the last few decades.Dr. Allen Frances is psychiatrist who led the task force that created the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which expanded the definition of Autism. Frances says that expanded definition played a role in the increase.Rates of autism have exploded in recent decades. Could the clinical definition of autism itself be partly to blame? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at considerthis@npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy