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10 episodes with david gruder
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3 episodes with david gruder
2 episodes with david gruder
3 episodes with david gruder
Dr. David Gruder is a Corporate Counsel who is a 12-award-winning multi-bestselling clinical and organizational psychologist. As an Executive Team Orchestrator and Culture Catalyst, he makes integrity profitable by equipping socially responsible businesses with missing mindsets, skillsets, and procedures to actualize their unique calling in helping humanity's most elevated future emerge. As President of Integrity Culture Systems™ and director of the Center for Enlightened Self-Sovereignty™, he provides keynotes, training programs, executive consulting, writing, and media interviews. He also hosts the “Reimagining Humanity's Future and Yours” show. His main website is DrGruder.com. This episode is sponsored by the coaching company of the host, Paul Zelizer. Consider a Strategy Session if you can use support growing your impact business. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Dr. David Gruder's site Reimaging Humanity's Future show Dr. David Gruder's books Article on the Transformation Economy David Gruder on Linkedin Paul's Strategy Sessions Pitch an Awarepreneurs episode
Our guest today is a renowned clinical and organizational psychologist, Dr. David Gruder — a man once dubbed 'America's Integrity Expert.' With a career spanning over four decades, Dr. Gruder is a multi-award-winning author, trusted advisor to leaders, and a compelling voice in the psychology of integrity, societal sanity, and ethical leadership. He's here with us to discuss the psychological challenges of our time, how we can reclaim personal and cultural integrity, and what it takes to thrive in an age of division and distortion.www.drgruder.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.
Dr. David Gruder, the integrative psychologist widely known as The Polymath of Human Potential™. With a career that spans visionary leadership, transformational psychology, conscious business, and societal wellbeing, Dr. Gruder is a Self-Sovereignty Luminary, Leadership Sage, Business Alchemist, and America's Integrity Expert. He has received an extraordinary range of personal and book awards across disciplines, and he's here to share the wisdom behind his life's work. Through his keynotes, trainings, consulting, and mentoring, Dr. Gruder supports leaders, influencers, entrepreneurs, and change-makers who are called to co-create a future where personal sovereignty, ethical business, and societal healing are deeply integrated. This conversation is a rare opportunity to connect with a true master of inner and outer transformation—and to explore what it really takes to create a thriving, integrity-rooted future for humanity.
Join us for Business Influencers Episode 175, where Dr. David Gruder, Founder of Integrity Revolution and award-winning psychologist, explores the Evolution of Consumer Demand & Implications for Business Leaders. Discover the shifting patterns of consumer expectations, the current landscape, and what lies ahead. Gain valuable insights into navigating these changes and shaping the future of business and leadership. Don't miss this engaging conversation with host Chris Salem on Youtube, Spotify and Apple Podcast only on TALRadio English!Host : Chris SalemGuest : Dr.David GruderYou Can Reach David Gruder @DrGruder.com#TALRadioEnglish #BusinessInfluencers #ConsumerTrends #LeadershipInsights #DrDavidGruder #IntegrityRevolution #BusinessEvolution #FutureOfLeadership #EntrepreneurMindset #PsychologyOfBusiness #IndustryShifts #ChrisSalem #PodcastEpisode #TouchALife #TALRadio
In this episode you discover how to use Emotional Freedom Techniques to deepen love, romance, and passion in your committed relationship. If you're looking for that special someone, you'll learn how to use EFT to attract the perfect partner for you.---Resources: "Tap and Talk" episode: "Use EFT Tap and Talk Method for Anxiety and Worry Relief". Link to listen in Spreaker: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/use-eft-tap-and-talk-method-for-anxiety-and-worry-relief--59397915You can also find this episode by searching the title in your listening application.David Gruder, PhD, DCEP, "Unveiling the Science Behind Energy Psychology: How Tapping Works". Published through ACEP. Link: https://www.energypsych.org/blog/unveiling-the-science-behind-energy-psychology-how-tapping-worksDavid Feinstein, Ph.D. "Physiological Mechanisms of Energy Psychology Treatments: An Updated Synthesis". Link: https://energypsychologyjournal.org/physiological-mechanisms-of-energy-psychology-treatments-an-updated-synthesis/---Host:Stephen Carter - Website: https://StressReliefRadio.com - Email: CarterMethod@gmail.com---Technical information:Recorded with Hindenburg Pro. Edits with Twisted Wave, Amadeus Pro, Hush, and Levelator. Final edits and rendering with Hindenburg Pro. Microphone: Ultravoice XM8500.---Key words:Couples, love, passion, romance,
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Welcome to the 'Gina Gardiner & Friends Show' - this episode features my guest, Dr David Gruder whose theme was 'A blueprint for a spiritually uplifting future for humanity that lifts us out of chronic fear and frustration, and practical ways that anyone who wants it can help it emerge'.
As the hijacking of humanity continues to bring about a more dysfunctional society, what can be done to secure an enlightened future? Timothy J. Hayes, Psy.D returns with Dr. David Gruder, who talks about his solution through The Center For Enlightened Spiritual Sovereignty. In this second part of their discussion, the two break down the center's SPARK Blueprint, a roadmap that guides people on emerging in their authentic ways and contribute to developing a much better world. Dr. Gruder talks about his desire to reimagine humanity, explaining why now is the perfect time to be more conscious about the concepts, beliefs, and perspectives that we embrace.Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!Here's How »Join the On Your Mind Community today:journeysdream.orgTwitterInstagramFacebookYouTube
There are countless beliefs, ideologies, and perspectives that mold society today, and unfortunately not all of them consider our best interests. Some are focused on the hijacking of humanity, trapping everyone on an endless slippery slope. Delving into this alarming problem with Timothy J. Hayes, Psy.D is award-winning clinical and organizational psychologist Dr. David Gruder. In this first part of their insightful discussion, they talk about the three holes of humanity, the five aspects of the hijacking of humanity, and the two symptoms of a dysfunctional society. Dr. Gruder also explains how the concept of the American Dream causes people to chase distorted ideas of happiness, kills the intuitive mind, and pushes us further away from a complete revisioning of humanity.Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!Here's How »Join the On Your Mind Community today:journeysdream.orgTwitterInstagramFacebookYouTube
In this thought-provoking episode of 'Healthy and Awake' podcast, Mike Vera engages with Dr. David Gruder, a renowned psychologist and a critical thinker who discusses the intersection of human consciousness, technology and happiness. Dr. Gruder dares to challenge conventional beliefs and gives insights into how our sense of happiness and freedom can be hijacked through societal 'spells' and technology, particularly artificial intelligence. Shedding light on the emerging future of humanity, he presents two contrasting paradigms: 'Homo Machina', a human-machine hybrid dominated by AI, and 'Homo Spiritus', individuals more connected with love, wisdom and their higher selves. He expresses optimism for the latter future, emphasizing the importance of spiritual self-sovereignty and enlightening self-awareness. Throughout the discussion, we also cover topics such as propaganda, 'rockefellerization' of medicine, leadership, and the role of AI in propaganda.Dr. Gruder's main website is DrGruder.com and you can learn about The Center for Enlightened Self-Sovereignty at TheCESS.com. TUNE IN TO HIS SHOWSReimagining Humanity's Future and Yours: DrGruder.com/RHFYBoosting Business Value: DrGruder.com/BBVThe One Thing: DrGruder.com/TOTApply for Free Membership in The Center for Enlightened Self-Sovereignty: www.TheCESS.comRead of Listen to My Latest Bestselling Business Books: Media.NimbilityWorks.com __________________________________________________________________
With Dr. David Gruder, a multi-award-winning Wall Street Journal bestselling psychologist who Radio-TV Interview Report named America's Integrity Expert and hailed as having “a field of wisdom that few can match." A Business Lifecycle Psychologist and pioneer in PsychoSpiritual Fitness for Leaders & Executives with a deep commitment to ethical leadership, Dr. Gruder is a beacon of inspiration for those seeking to revolutionize their organizations, enlighten their communities, and create lasting positive impact in the world. He has helped countless individuals and organizations around the world chart a path toward a more ethical, values-driven, and universally prosperous society. Dr. Gruder excels at turning high intentions into practical step-by-step procedures. He blends psychospiritual mysteries of the soul with boots-on-the-ground skills that equip leaders in business, society, and governance to flourish. The most recent of his many books are "The Nimble C-Suite" and "The Nimble Company." Join us for this powerful conversation around what makes for effective leadership, how to create real impact in your life and in the world, and why transformation on an individual level is essential for all of us. Listen as we dive deep into a conversation about anger, (and how to transform our relationship to it), what purpose is and how it relates to your soul-growth mission, as well the true definition of forgiveness. Hear Dr. Gruder share on why we can't "will power" our way out of trauma, and how we can better deal with the current state of (painful) affairs in the world. This is a ultimately a conversation about healing - oneself and the world. You will not want to miss this transformational conversation!
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David Gruder: What Happened to the American Dream? Dr. David Gruder is a multi-award-winning Wall Street Journal bestselling psychologist who Radio-TV Interview Report named America's Integrity Expert. Hailed as having “a field of wisdom that few can match," he blends psychospiritual mysteries of the soul with boots-on-the-ground skills that equip leaders, influencers, and organizations, to actualize their highest intentions. Welcome to the Conscious Millionaire Show for entrepreneurs, who want to achieve high sales and positively impact humanity! Join host, JV Crum III, as he goes inside the minds of conscious guests such as Millionaire Entrepreneurs and World-Class Business Experts. Like this Podcast? Get every episode delivered to you free! Subscribe in iTunes Download Your Free Money-Making Gift Now... "Born to Make Millions" Hypnotic Audio - Click Here Now! Please help spread the word. Subscribing and leaving a review helps others find our podcast. Thanks so much! Inc Magazine "Top 13 Business Podcasts." Conscious Millionaire Network has over 3,800 episodes that have been heard by over 100 million in 190 countries.
David Gruder: What Happened to the American Dream? Dr. David Gruder is a multi-award-winning Wall Street Journal bestselling psychologist who Radio-TV Interview Report named America's Integrity Expert. Hailed as having “a field of wisdom that few can match," he blends psychospiritual mysteries of the soul with boots-on-the-ground skills that equip leaders, influencers, and organizations, to actualize their highest intentions. Welcome to the Conscious Millionaire Limitless Performer Show for service and tech entrepreneurs who want to create limitless wealth, make a limitless impact, and enjoy a limitless life. Heard on the Conscious Millionaire Network by millions in 190 countries. Join host, JV Crum III, as he unlocks the human potential secrets of how to evolve your consciousness to create limitless results with today's featured guest. Like this Podcast? Get every episode delivered to you free! Subscribe in iTunes. Please help spread the word. Subscribing and leaving a review helps others find our podcast. Thanks so much! Download Your Free Money-Making Gift Now... "Born to Make Millions" Hypnotic Audio - Click Here! Inc Magazine called our Conscious Millionaire Show one of the "Top 13 Business Podcasts". Conscious Millionaire Network has 3,800+ episodes and has been heard by over 100 million in 190 countries.
David Gruder: What Happened to the American Dream? Dr. David Gruder is a multi-award-winning Wall Street Journal bestselling psychologist who Radio-TV Interview Report named America's Integrity Expert. Hailed as having “a field of wisdom that few can match," he blends psychospiritual mysteries of the soul with boots-on-the-ground skills that equip leaders, influencers, and organizations, to actualize their highest intentions. Welcome to the Conscious Millionaire Show for entrepreneurs, who want to achieve high sales and positively impact humanity! Join host, JV Crum III, as he goes inside the minds of conscious guests such as Millionaire Entrepreneurs and World-Class Business Experts. Like this Podcast? Get every episode delivered to you free! Subscribe in iTunes Download Your Free Money-Making Gift Now... "Born to Make Millions" Hypnotic Audio - Click Here Now! Please help spread the word. Subscribing and leaving a review helps others find our podcast. Thanks so much! Inc Magazine "Top 13 Business Podcasts." Conscious Millionaire Network has over 3,800 episodes that have been heard by over 100 million in 190 countries.
For a business to thrive, it needs to change with the times, and that requires the C-suite to lead the way. How do we, as leaders, ensure that we don't end up as dinosaurs in this constant march of change? Discover the pressing need for businesses to adapt to the ever-changing market landscape in this thought-provoking podcast conversation with Dr. David Gruder, co-author of The Nimble C-Suite. Dr. Gruder introduces the concept of nimbility, encouraging companies to become better versions of themselves by embracing transformation, resilience, and innovation. Find out why shifting from a product and service-oriented economy to an experience economy and now to a transformation economy is essential, requiring businesses to continuously innovate and transform to remain competitive. Explore the vital role of the nimble C-suite in driving this change, all while considering the historical context of corporate charters and the impact of corporate social responsibility on governance. Tune in!
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity
Dr. David Gruder is a clinical and organizational psychologist, an eightaward-winning author, and a highly sought speaker, trainer, and trusted advisor. He is the founder and CEO of Integrity Revolution, which “helps ‘everyday people to world leaders' create sustainable happiness, health, love and success without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility,” through providing Essential Psychological Skills for Extraordinary Businesses, Leaders, and Wellbeing™. Their Integrity Stimulus Plan is a universal, transpartisan, nondenominationally spiritual framework for co-creating integrity-centered sustainable solutions to the vast challenges we face today as individuals, families, communities, businesses, societies and a planet.Well into his fourth decade as a “Merlin” of personal, relationship and leadership transformation, Dr. Gruder is internationally acclaimed as a foremost expert in how to reconnect integrity with sustainable happiness, health, and prosperity. A frequent guest on many radio talk shows throughout North America, “Radio & Television Interview Reports” has hailed Dr. Gruder as “America's Integrity Expert.” A trusted advisor to leaders and businesses, he is an Equanicity Resources faculty member and serves as Special Counsel to CEO Space International's Board & Chairman, in addition to teaching classes for members, providing behind-the-scenes training programs for faculty, club presidents and Forum staff, and serving on the Faculty Integrity Team.His speaking, training and consulting engagements have ranged from the Sanoviv Medical Institute in Mexico to the Transactional Analysis Institute in Switzerland, from family-run businesses to American Express work teams, from Leaders Causing Leaders to the World President's Organization, and from the San Diego County Department of Education's Management Academy to ambassadors to the World Trade Organization. He also served as the founding president of the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology.A masterful wordsmith in addition to being a psychologist, Dr. Gruder also co-authors books with high profile individuals whose life story offers valuable lessons in personal or professional development, such as the just-released “Conversations With the King,” which he co-authored with Elvis Presley's stepbrother, David Stanley.Dr. Gruder's last book, “The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships and Our World,” won six awards for its solutions to today's massive deficits in personal, relationship, corporate, governmental, and leadership integrity. The IntegrityMakeover.com website converts this material into a step-by-step self-guided curriculum for integrating your happiness, health, prosperity, and ability to make a positive difference in your chosen spheres of influence. His next book is tentatively titled, The Hijacking of Happiness.Based in San Diego, CA, with his wife Laurie, Dr. Gruder is also an ordained interfaith clergy, and an Elder with the ManKind Project, an international nonprofit organization of men creating a safer world by stepping into mature masculinity and living in integrity with their life mission.
Dr. David Gruder is a clinical and organizational psychologist, an eightaward-winning author, and a highly sought speaker, trainer, and trusted advisor. He is the founder and CEO of Integrity Revolution, which “helps ‘everyday people to world leaders' create sustainable happiness, health, love and success without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility,” through providing Essential Psychological Skills for Extraordinary Businesses, Leaders, and Wellbeing™. Their Integrity Stimulus Plan is a universal, transpartisan, nondenominationally spiritual framework for co-creating integrity-centered sustainable solutions to the vast challenges we face today as individuals, families, communities, businesses, societies and a planet.
On this episode of The Cam & Otis Show we are joined by special guest Dr. David Gruder, who is a clinical and organizational psychologist, an award-winning best-selling author, and a highly sought speaker, trainer, and trusted advisor. He is the founder and CEO of Integrity Revolution, which“helps ‘everyday people to world leaders' create sustainablehappiness, health, love, and success without sacrificing personalintegrity or social responsibility,” through providing EssentialPsychological Skills for Extraordinary Businesses, Leaders, andWellbeing™. As always this show is brought to you by Tribe andPurpose. You've put the work in but you're not sure how to reap therewards. It's time to focus on the success you have planned foryourself and your team. The Tribe + Purpose team can guide you tobuild on that success to have even more. Learn more atwww.tribe-purpose.com connect with Dr. David Gruder on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gruder Check Out his site: https://www.drgruder.com/YouTube Link: https://youtu.be/RCwgPBgpxXk
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
In this episode, Phillip Lanos and Jason Miller are joined by David Gruder, founder and CEO of Integrity Culture Systems™. David Gruder shares a lot of incites in this episode and how he broke free from traditional academia to become a successful business owner. You will also uncover how to overcome a business struggle that may help save your business.Tune in to learn more!ConnectStrategic Advisor Board: www.linkedin.com/company/strategic-advisor-boardJason Miller: www.linkedin.com/in/jasontmiller-sabPhillip Lanos: www.linkedin.com/in/philliplanos/David Gruder Website: www.drgruder.comDavid Gruder: www.linkedin.com/in/gruder
Today we are joined by special guest Dr. David Gruder, who is a clinical and organizational psychologist, an award-winning best-selling author, and a highly sought speaker, trainer, and trusted advisor.He is the founder and CEO of Integrity Revolution, which “helps ‘everyday people to world leaders' create sustainable happiness, health, love, and success without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility,” through providing Essential Psychological Skills for Extraordinary Businesses, Leaders, and Wellbeing™.As always this show is brought to you by Tribe and Purpose. You've put the work in but you're not sure how to reap the rewards. It's time to focus on the success you have planned for yourself and your team.The Tribe + Purpose team can guide you to build on that success to have even more.Learn more at www.tribe-purpose.comand connect with Raliegh on LinkedIn here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/gruderOr his website: https://www.drgruder.com/Youtube Link: https://youtu.be/RCwgPBgpxXk
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Learn Why Shadow Spotting is Crucial to the Health of Your Organization! Spotting & Intervening With Shadow Dynamics in Groups Workshop with Dr. David Gruder, Ph.D., DCEP Clarity about what "shadow" dynamics are and their toxic impacts in businesses, nonprofits, community groups, families, society, and politics. ("Shadow" is a psychological term coined by the extraordinary trailblazing psychologist, Dr. Carl Jung, for the parts of us that we ignore, repress or deny.") How to spot the telltale signs of 5 key individual, co-created and systems shadow dynamics in groups. Key questions to ask yourself when you see any of these dynamics happening... before you speak up about them. Simple ways to quickly help groups get back on track Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Dr. David Gruder is perhaps the world's only clinical and business psychologist specializing in Integrity Intelligence. His most recent book, "The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships and our World," has been embraced across the political and faith spectrums, and has won six awards in the areas of current events in politics & society, social change, conscious business and leadership, health & wellness, self-help and transformational psychology. Dr. Gruder speaks, trains and consults worldwide with leaders in business, government, education and the helping professions on how to create sustainable happiness, business success and social change without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility. He is also currently writing his next book on this topic. His website is www.TheNewIQ.com.******************************************************************To listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com ******************************************************************
Dr. David Gruder, PhD, is a clinical & organizational development psychologist and bestselling 12-award-winning Human Potential Strategist, Business Lifecycle Psychologist, and Culture Architect, who was Named America's Integrity Expert by Radio-TV Interview Report. Dr. Gruder has written, contributed to, or been featured in, 26 books... plus Forbes, Inc., Entrepreneur, and Nonprofit Performance magazines, among hundreds of media and podcast interviews, in addition to having provided keynotes, training & consulting worldwide. Now in his senior decades, David characterizes himself as a recovering psychologist and professional troublemaker. Some of the many hats he continues to wear include President & Founder of Integrity Culture Systems™ , Co-Founder & Partner with NimbilityWorks™, Chief Integrity Officer of the Lydian Foundation, Business Lifecycle Psychologist for Blue Sky Business Resources, Legacy Faculty for CEO Space International™, Founder of the Government Trust Restoration Project, and Ritual Elder with the ManKind Project. His next two interconnected books, scheduled to be released in mid-2022, are The Nimble C-Suite and The Nimble Company. His main website is DrGruder.com. David lives in San Diego, California, and despite a very full professional life, he most loves enjoying plenty of time with his wife Laurie and their two cats.
Dr. David Gruder, PhD, is a clinical & organizational development psychologist and bestselling 12-award-winning Human Potential Strategist, Business Lifecycle Psychologist, and Culture Architect, who was Named America's Integrity Expert by Radio-TV Interview Report. Dr. Gruder has written, contributed to, or been featured in, 26 books... plus Forbes, Inc., Entrepreneur, and Nonprofit Performance magazines, among hundreds of media and podcast interviews, in addition to having provided keynotes, training & consulting worldwide. Now in his senior decades, David characterizes himself as a recovering psychologist and professional troublemaker. Some of the many hats he continues to wear include President & Founder of Integrity Culture Systems™ , Co-Founder & Partner with NimbilityWorks™, Chief Integrity Officer of the Lydian Foundation, Business Lifecycle Psychologist for Blue Sky Business Resources, Legacy Faculty for CEO Space International™, Founder of the Government Trust Restoration Project, and Ritual Elder with the ManKind Project. His next two interconnected books, scheduled to be released in mid-2022, are The Nimble C-Suite and The Nimble Company. His main website is DrGruder.com. David lives in San Diego, California, and despite a very full professional life, he most loves enjoying plenty of time with his wife Laurie and their two cats.
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
My next guest is David Gruder, the Founder of Integrity Culture Systems. He helps aspiring & accomplished thought & market leaders master the psychological skills & procedures that make their leadership effective, their culture devoted, their customers delighted, & our society healthier. He is a visionary leader who guides you to reaching your goals and accomplishing them.
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David S. Gruder, PhD, DCEP, has been hailed by Radio & Television Interview Reports as America's Integrity Expert: the clinical and organizational psychologist who is today's preeminent thought leader on practical ways to bring integrity back into daily life, relationships, business, politics, the media, eduction, and religion. As Integrity Revolution's CEO & Founder, he passionately embodies its mission statement (described above) through writing, keynotes, training, mentoring, and media interviews on various aspects of integrity-centered living, working, loving and serving. An international speaker, trainer and TheraCoach for over three decades, Dr. Gruder has also given hundreds of interviews on many radio talk shows throughout North America and is a recurring guest for many of them. Dr. Gruder's masters and doctorate are in clinical psychology with a secondary emphasis in organizational development and conflict resolution. His bachelors degree was in psychology and music, magna cum laude. He is also an ordained interfaith clergy and spiritual director. Dr. Gruder has authored two major print books, four e-books, over seventy CD sets and well over a dozen training manuals. His first print book, Sensible Self-Help, won two book awards, including Colliers 1997 Mental Health Book of the Year. His six-award-winning second print book, The New IQ, is a road map for addressing the worldwide crisis of lack of personal, relationship and leadership integrity*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com
Dr. David Gruder is perhaps the world's only clinical and business psychologist specializing in Integrity Intelligence. His most recent book, "The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships and our World," has been embraced across the political and faith spectrums, and has won six awards in the areas of current events in politics & society, social change, conscious business and leadership, health & wellness, self-help and transformational psychology. Dr. Gruder speaks, trains and consults worldwide with leaders in business, government, education and the helping professions on how to create sustainable happiness, business success and social change without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility. He is also currently writing his next book on this topic. His website is www.TheNewIQ.com.Now listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewpaper.com
Dr. David Gruder is perhaps the world's only clinical and business psychologist specializing in Integrity Intelligence. His most recent book, "The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships and our World," has been embraced across the political and faith spectrums, and has won six awards in the areas of current events in politics & society, social change, conscious business and leadership, health & wellness, self-help and transformational psychology. Dr. Gruder speaks, trains and consults worldwide with leaders in business, government, education and the helping professions on how to create sustainable happiness, business success and social change without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility. He is also currently writing his next book on this topic. His website is www.TheNewIQ.com.Now listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewpaper.com
If anyone has been a major player in helping humanity wake the f up, it's Janet Hogan's next guest. Widely regarded as an absolute giant in the personal transformation world, Dr. David Gruder is a man who has dedicated his life to helping people not only wake up to who they really are, but also wise up to their unique abilities and step up to play their part in repairing and elevating the world. Sometimes it's easy to forget that these giants who walk before us are humans, too, and also go through the emotional wringer from time to time. In this episode, get to know the doctor behind the doctrine. A great thought leader, mentor, and inspiration, Dr. David shares his early struggles in life, or what he calls the Twin Towers moment. Learn how he fought through that by reviewing his life, and discover what it means to be awake in order to reach your peak.
Dr. David Gruder is perhaps the world's only clinical and business psychologist specializing in Integrity Intelligence. His most recent book, "The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships and our World," has been embraced across the political and faith spectrums, and has won six awards in the areas of current events in politics & society, social change, conscious business and leadership, health & wellness, self-help and transformational psychology. Dr. Gruder speaks, trains and consults worldwide with leaders in business, government, education and the helping professions on how to create sustainable happiness, business success and social change without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility. He is also currently writing his next book on this topic. His website is www.TheNewIQ.com.******************************************************************To listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com ******************************************************************
In episode #031 of The ManKind Podcast, Brandon Clift interviews renowned psychologist and professional troublemaker, Dr. David Gruder, to discuss how SHADOW turns up in our power structures and those who have authority over us. Interview Starts At: [04:01]This Episode Covers: How our relationship with Power influences our relationships across the board.How to utilize influence and power as an agent of positive change versus a tyrant.What separates those who create lasting positive change in the world and others who create chaos, destruction, and pain.Loved Dr. David Gruder? Find His Links Here:David's Website: DrGruder.comDavid's Academy: Academy WebsiteDavid's Integrity Social Network: HEREDavid's Ted Talk: HEREAdditional Resources:Subscribe/Rate/Review ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐: >>>HERE
In episode #027 of The ManKind Podcast, Brandon Clift interviews renowned psychologist and professional troublemaker, Dr. David Gruder, to introduce you to the SHADOW of the human psyche.The term Shadowisbecoming more commonly used to describe the negative aspects of our personalities which is why we've brought David onto the show to give you his expert rundown of how the shadow impacts our livelihood. Interview Starts At: [04:35]This Episode Covers: How childhood determines how we develop our shadow into adulthood.How to identify, explore and address our shadow work.How we can invite others to see where their own shadow is getting in the way of their progress in life.The RIGHT way to begin Shadow Work and why it's important to seek guidance and support from the beginning.Loved Dr. David Gruder? Find His Links Here:David's Website: DrGruder.comDavid's Academy : Academy WebsiteDavid's Integrity Social Network: HEREAdditional Resources:Subscribe/Rate/Review ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐: >>>HERE
In this episode, we interviewed psychologist, speaker, mentor, author, and founder and president of Integrity Culture Systems, Dr. David Gruder. David is an expert in self development and uses his knowledge to help others become leaders. He explains the 5 steps one should take to make their way into a leadership role and uses a real life example in how to act-out the process. Later, David walks us through a 4-step process that we can use to re-train our inner-critics in order to stop shaming ourselves. David ends the interview with a message he'd like to share with our listeners. Enjoy! Where to find Dr. David Gruder: @drgruder (https://www.instagram.com/drgruder/) Follow us, ask us questions, and submit podcast ideas: @Social_Anxiety_Kyle (https://www.instagram.com/social_anxiety_kyle/) @JeremyTalksToStrangers (https://www.instagram.com/jeremytalkstostrangers/) Check out our website and stay up-to-date on everything we are doing: www.TheSocialNinjasPodcast.com Make sure to leave us a 5-star review! Support The Social Ninjas Podcast via our Patreon here. https://www.patreon.com/thesocialninjas
Beyond the physical and mental aspects of pursuing your calling is the importance of spirituality. Too often, when people still feel like there is something missing, it is often this aspect that they forget about. Dr. David Gruder is an award-winning clinical and organizational developmental psychologist who helps leaders and influencers repair and elevate the world with the missing spiritual, inner, and outer skills needed to succeed in their calling. He joins Timothy J. Hayes, Psy.D., to discuss with us how he is doing that. He takes us deep into some energy psychology methods and what he calls Paradigm Sculpting, then shares a couple of tips on finding the therapist that best matches you. Follow along to this conversation with Dr. Gruder, where he takes us further into foundational wellbeing or self-care and how we can best become a positive influence in the world.Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!Here’s How »Join the On Your Mind Community today:journeysdream.orgTwitterInstagramFacebookYouTube
What does the future look like beyond 2020? It is hard to deny that 2020 has been a rough year for most of the world. In this episode of Incorporating SuperPowers, host Justin Recla and Dr. David Gruder reflect on and explore the reasons why 2020 seemed like a bad horror movie. More importantly, [...]
SuperPower Up! | Super Power Kids | Sex, Love and SuperPowers | SuperPowers of the Soul
What does the future look like beyond 2020? It is hard to deny that 2020 has been a rough year for most of the world. In this episode of Incorporating SuperPowers, host Justin Recla and Dr. David Gruder reflect on and explore the reasons why 2020 seemed like a bad horror movie. More importantly, [...]
How do you know who to trust? Have you ever been scammed?In this era of trying something new, because of the massive job and career losses, I wanted to bring in a colleague/friend of mine who has been speaking out for years about the hijacking of the human potential movement. I recently found out the a dear friend of mine lost everything in a scam and I have to admit that I have also been sold down the Nile as well by people who sound like they care about you! @drgruder Dr. Dave Gruder, fellow @ceospaceinternational faculty and friend will be LIVE in my Zoom #covidsafe studio on my 8 year award-winning syndicated show “Take my advice I’m not using it: Get Balanced with Dr. Marissa”!! coaching us all on how to be a savvy consumer of human potential resources.Episode sponsored by www.BestSelf.co
Based on a lifetime of dedication to help repair and elevate the world, Dr. Gruder will share with Dr. Young some of his transformational turning points that led him to dedicate the final chapter of his career to equipping leaders and influencers in inner, outer, and spiritual skills to succeed at something he calls ”Self-Sovereignty,” that serves us all and governance that serves “Self-Sovereignty.” He will share some of the key skills that leaders and influencers need to do their part in helping to repair and elevate the world. He will also offer his perspectives on how humanity has been hijacked and what it will take to get it back on track. A show you will not want to miss.
Welcome back to Part 2 of this interview with Dr. Gruder. If you missed part 1 please pause and head back to episode 14 of the Create A New Tomorrow Podcast to be able to catch the whole interview. Dr. David Gruder is a twelve award winning integrative psychologist. He's president of the Integrity Culture Systems, which work focuses on what he calls self sovereignty, and that serves us all. He equips leaders, influencers and entrepreneurs who are called to repair and evolve the world in their own unique ways with inner, outer and spiritual skills to expand their positive impact. And a super change Catalyst's without sacrificing their lightheartedness, health, financial well-being or cherished personal and work relationships *Episode Highlights* *David* [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind. *David* [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind. *Ari* [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way. *David* [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other. *Ari* [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside. *David* [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple. *Ari* [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different. *David* [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us. *David* [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong? *Ari* [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be. *Ari* [00:37:30] What would that path be? *Resources and Links* * *https://drgruder.com* * *https://drgruder.com/academy* * *https://CreateANewTomorrow.com* * *https://www.facebook.com/arigronich* *Full Transcription* *Ari&Davidpart2.mp3* *Ari* [00:00:02] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. *Ari* [00:00:14] For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree. But I'm not backing down. *Ari* [00:00:51] I'm Ari Gronich. And this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast. *Ari* [00:01:03] Welcome back to part two of this interview, if you missed the part one. Head back to the previous episode before you listen to this one. Now, we'll dive right into the conversation from the moment that we left off. Thanks again and welcome back. *Ari* [00:01:18] As an operational planner, along with all your other accolades. *Ari* [00:01:24] Right. If we were going to operationally plan this, which is basically taking it from the result that we want and working our way down to the beginning. *Ari* [00:01:36] What would be the first steps on that operational plan to shift the system as it is and start that development into a lack of insane, insanity? *David* [00:01:50] Right. *David* [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind. *David* [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind. *David* [00:02:18] If we don't start with a utopian vision, if we don't start with a vision of what we want to strive toward, the ideal future that we're not going to have tomorrow. But we have a true north that we're that we're pointing toward. If we don't have that, then we don't have a country. This country, the United States, was birthed based in large part on and in a its origins, a utopian vision. And then they got to crafting the Constitution and made all kinds of compromises and disenfranchized certain people and allowed slavery to continue and all kinds of nasty, dark, shadowy stuff. But it started off as a vision. A vision of a society. That is functioning at the intersection of personal freedom and the common good, where all are considered to be equal in terms of their right to have opportunity to make of it as they will and where. The government was mandated to function and legislate at the intersection of what preserves individual freedom and what promotes the common good. That was an audacious idea that people that people would actually be in a society whose government was mandated to be a servant to its citizens, not to itself, not to the common good. I'm sorry. Not to special interests, not to itself. That's that was a radical notion back then. It was a utopian notion back then. What I would say to you today is all of those utopian notions, great concept, still never been tried. *Ari* [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way. *Ari* [00:04:50] And so there's always been such a dichotomy of divergence between ideal and reality. And I want to help bring the ideal into reality. So what do we need to do in order to create that? *David* [00:05:08] The master planning, again, starts with envisioning the best possible end, getting on the same page about. About what that looks like in principle. And then reverse engineering coming backwards from that best possible end to the question of where are we now in relationship to that and how do we deliberately construct a bridge that takes us from where we are now to the best possible hand over time with patience and persistence and a dedication to not abandoning the vision. *David* [00:05:49] This is what. Great companies do. *David* [00:05:52] It's what great societies are theoretically capable of doing. But not if we're fighting against each other over whose ideology is right and wrong. *Ari* [00:06:04] That's that's a good point, because my my question to you based on that, is everybody has their own vision of what utopia is. Right. They have their own belief system about it. And most of the belief system is created by the traumas that they've experienced in their life and the experiences I say Traumas, because the traumas in the experience are really what shape our belief system and what we think of as utopia in our heads may not necessarily be the answer for our hearts and our, you know, and our humanity. *Ari* [00:06:42] So how do we bridge that gap first? *David* [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other. *David* [00:07:06] And what I would add is and within ourselves, we human beings tend to be have an inner community of self that is at war with itself. And the war comes from our traumas. The war comes from the undigested life experiences that we've had, the life experiences we've been through that we didn't know, and we still haven't figured out how to harvest great deep spiritual gifts from. So those pieces of unfinished business remain the boss of us. And if we go back to Maslow, when someone is in survival mode, they don't see utopia. They don't see what are what's possible, because all they're settling for is is surviving. It's like The Ballad of Jack and Diane and John Cougar Mellencamp. And the line from that song is Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? But that's that's the majority of society. They are. They are believing that they just have to muddle through in life. They long ago gave up their ideals, their their vision. And it's because of what you said, Ari. They have been taught to tolerate undigested life experiences inside themselves and to believe that the best they can do is hope to live with their scars rather than being shown ways that they can transform through their scars into an elevated way of living. *Ari* [00:08:53] That was those very beautiful way of putting it. And, you know, to any listener out there who's thinking, I don't know what to do next. I know I'm listening to you and I'm understanding the words that you're saying and I just don't know what to do next. Where would where would you. You know, suggest somebody start with that. *David* [00:09:23] Well, I'll say something that might sound self-serving, but it really is my answer to the question. I have an online course called the Integrity Guide to having it all how to put your genius where your dreams are and that course. Teaches people not simply a mindset, but very specific, step by step by step sequence skills, skills that are developed in a specific order because one set of skills builds on the next, builds on the next. And it the entire focus of that course is to help people outgrow their survival plan and upgrade their trival plan and their ability to live there. Thriveal plan. That's the resource that I would recommend. *Ari* [00:10:17] Awesome. So I have I have. *Ari* [00:10:21] I was I'm glad that you brought that up, because while I don't mind you being a little self-serving, I was being self-serving in having you mention a word, which is integrity. *Ari* [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside. *David* [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple. *David* [00:11:25] Now about integrity. Integrity is one of those words that unfortunately falls in a category I referred to as true, but not useful because tons of people. Truly an authentically not not as lip service, but tons of people truly believe in the idea of integrity. But when I ask them to tell me what integrity is and what skills are necessary, they they don't know how to answer. And so forget for the moment about ill intended people who don't believe in integrity. What I'm talking about right now are people who authentically believe in integrity, just like most people, and authentically believe in collaboration. But they've never been trained in the skills that enable them to walk the talk. So what is integrity? *David* [00:12:14] Integrity revolves around the three core drives that I was referring to earlier, our drive to be who we truly are, authenticity, our drive to bond with others connection and our drive to influence the world around us. Impact, authenticity our authenticity. Core drive is about being in integrity with our selves, with our own, the promptings that come from our deepest self, our deepest nature, our deepest callings and and connection. The connection core drive is about relationship integrity, doing what we say we're going to do and holding ourselves accountable when when what we do is not aligned with our intentions and then impact our impact or drive corresponds with collective or societal integrity being an integrity with the groups that we are a part of. *David* [00:13:14] So integrity is not one dimensional, it's three dimensional. And as someone who was primarily motivated for the largest part of my life up until about 20 years ago, by contributing to societal integrity, I sacrificed myself integrity. I killed off my first marriage. Well, that was cocreator. The killing off was cocreator. But my part in killing off my first marriage was because I became so self neglectful that my heart shut down. And even though I was a dutiful husband and I did all the right things and I didn't do them as a martyr or feeling like I was sacrificing myself, I became so depleted that the thing that my first wife most rightly wanted from me, which was my heart, stopped being available. So I was out of integrity with myself and in my primary relationship, all while I was pursuing all of my social improvement initiatives. And that is is what I call One-dimensional integrity. It was a light bulb moment when I realized that I understood a fair amount of relationship about relationship integrity, even though I was falling to the wayside with some of that. And I understood a lot about societal integrity, but I didn't count integrity with myself as a form of integrity. There are other people who are at it at a different point with that, where they're all about themselves and they're and they're all about being an integrity with themselves. And if you don't like who I am and what I do, that's your problem. Well, that's one dimensional integrity. That's not three dimensional integrity. Integrity is three dimensional. *Ari* [00:15:07] That's you know, that's a really good point because. I've had similar experiences, and I think that everybody can relate to this is sacrificing yourself. *Ari* [00:15:21] For others or sacrificing yourself of sacrificing others for yourself, right? *Ari* [00:15:29] I think that that we can relate to this as a regular thing, and I don't think that it's necessarily. *Ari* [00:15:38] Common to have only one of these things right? Depending on the relationship, I'm sacrificing myself here for the better good here or I'm sacrificing the better. Good for this here. You know, sacrificing in the middle. *Ari* [00:15:54] Right. *Ari* [00:15:54] We're always having a balancing act between sacrificing our integrity and keeping it because we are such a busy society. Because we've had to create our value by what we do. *Ari* [00:16:10] And this kind of goes back to the original part of our conversation is, is the sacrifice for work and money worth the lack of integrity towards ourselves? And if not, how can we as a society lift each other up to that place of integrity vs. you know, I, I let's just say I didn't vote. *Ari* [00:16:40] Somebody doesn't vote. Right? Why? Because I don't feel like my vote counts, as you were saying at the beginning of this conversation. Well, that help. I sing my integrity as a contributing impact person both to myself and to the society at large. *Ari* [00:16:59] Right. So how do we shift this perspective from nothing. I do really matters anyway. *David* [00:17:09] This is what you're what you're pointing toward is a is people's belief in a law of scarcity that in order to have this, I have to sacrifice that. And when we allow that either or thinking to affect our happiness formula, we're basically screwed. So if I think that I have to sacrifice my integrity in order to have financial well-being. Or that I have to sacrifice financial well-being in order to keep my integrity. I am engaging in psycho spiritual insanity. I'm engaging in either or thinking when what is what our design is is both and thinking. Our design is to live at the intersection of our authenticity, our connection with others and our positive impact in the world. It's not one being sacrificed for the other two or two being sacrificed for one of them. It's all three in synergy, in collaboration with each other. We have collectively forgotten that vision of being human and because of that we are operating as a society. Again, there's some lovely individuals who have, you know, woak awakened from the spell. But as a society, we are still under the spell of a profoundly and dysfunctionally and harmfully sic happiness formula. It is not a real happiness formula. It's a dystopian formula. And we don't know it collectively, and it's time that people started calling it like it is. I am not a fan of political correctness. I am a fan. Huge fan of treating people with respect, compassion and regard. And when I am civil with people, when I am authentically respectful to them, toward them and compassionate toward them, I don't have to worry. One split second about about political correctness. Political correctness as an attempt to legislate morality and morality cannot be legislated. It can only be developed in us because we've healed those traumas that you you're referring to earlier so that we are living our authentic self rather than our wounded self. *Ari* [00:19:42] Yeah, you know, I agree. I don't think that. I'm not a fan of political correctness. I'm not I'm not a fan. So much of correctness at all. You know, I really like if somebody were to point out my the experience of my life is very rare moments that I've actually been what somebody else might consider to be correct. *Ari* [00:20:11] And I would imagine that that's probably the same thing behind closed doors that anybody and everybody else that's listening. *Ari* [00:20:22] Would be able to relate to. Is that correctness is on? *Ari* [00:20:29] It's unlegislated all because nobody has the same morality. Not a single person has every single thing in alignment with ever with another person's morality. And so how can we possibly legislate that? You know, we've tried because of religion. So religion originally was the first attempt at legislating morality, in my opinion. *Ari* [00:20:54] All right. Let's see what we can do to take a set of a community that's tribal. Right. *Ari* [00:21:03] And create a civil society so that we can all live together in somewhat peace and harmony. Right. And then and then let's create some rules around that. So don't covet you know, don't steal. Don't murder. Right. These are all commandments. But really what they are is legislating a level of morality because, you know, don't murder unless, of course, you're being attacked. *Ari* [00:21:30] Right. Don't don't covet somebodies, you know, goods unless it's driving you to be better so that you can afford those goods. *Ari* [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different. *Ari* [00:22:10] And we've kind of gone backwards on this and we stop legislating corporate structures in favor of deregulation. Right. *Ari* [00:22:23] And started to regulate people's behavior as it relates to things even, you know, like in the olden days, in the 20s of of alcohol prohibition. *Ari* [00:22:37] Also, we prohibit the things that we think as a society are morally questionable. *Ari* [00:22:45] And then we allow a company to poison our food, poison our water, poisoned our air in in attempts for profit for money. *Ari* [00:22:55] So, you know, when we look at this as a society at large and we go, is this working optimally? *Ari* [00:23:05] Is this moving our world and our society forward? I say no. *Ari* [00:23:13] Caveat, maybe a little. *Ari* [00:23:15] In some places and not in others. But really the whole point of this conversation is to awaken people into some other points of view that may not be politically correct or agree with your point of view. *Ari* [00:23:32] So. *Ari* [00:23:33] How do we agree to disagree? *Ari* [00:23:39] And still be authentically ourselves without having to worry about the offense of political correctness,. *David* [00:23:50] The way I think we start to do that is by establishing first. *David* [00:23:55] What we agree to agree upon. So what I mean by that, for example, is that. And I have I have a different perspective about the Ten Commandments. I view the Ten Commandments not as commandments, but as promises. *David* [00:24:18] That when you are in alignment with love, you can't help but behave those ways, not because you should, but because behaving in any way other than those ways would just be out of integrity for you wouldn't feel good. It wouldn't feel right. I don't agree that there is no universal morality. *David* [00:24:40] I am firmly convinced that there is. But it's not a Theal a theology. It's a universal morality that is built into our fundamental human nature, related to our three core drives. That that when we are. Truly, who we are designed to be when we are authentic, when we are bonded, when we're connected, when we are loving. And when we are devoted to having positive impact in the world. Expression of our three core drives is our fundamental morality and is integrity. *David* [00:25:26] In other words, what I'm saying is we are designed by our wiring to live within to in integrity. And it is our trauma structure. It's our unfinished business. It's our societal programing that is dysfunctional societal programing that seduces us out of our fundamental human nature. We have to learn how to love. *David* [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us. *Ari* [00:26:25] That is beautifully stated, and I like having people who disagree with me because that allows me to learn something new. *Ari* [00:26:35] And, you know, it's why I it's why when I'm looking on Facebook, for instance, all start searching for things that go completely against my point of view at I don't fall into that echo chamber that we or bubble thought bubble that that we started talking about. *Ari* [00:26:56] And I have the ability to then say, OK, what is this? And, you know, I've never had the thought. I think I got it, this friend, this person, because of what they're posting. Right. I've never had that as something that I've thought, huh? No, they don't. They don't agree with me. I think I'm going to defend them. *Ari* [00:27:18] Right. Yeah. *Ari* [00:27:20] Such a foreign kind of a concept in my world. So how come it's such a common. *Ari* [00:27:28] Fundamental thing happening in the world, because it just seems like it seems ridiculous to me. *David* [00:27:37] Well, at the macro level, I think it's happening in the world today because. Because we have. A species that species being humanity. That is in a collective state of terror and the collective state of terror that I believe humanity is in right now. Is that all of the old structures? Are crumbling because they're being outgrown. The things that the structures that were helpful in propelling us forward in fits and starts and an imperfectly for the last couple of thousand years. Are not the structures that are going to propel us forward the next couple of thousand years? And when people fall into a trap that I think we're programed to fall into, which is to identify who we are through what we believe. Then if what we believe starts to crumble, we stop thinking we can know who we are. So we desperately cling to old belief systems in order to hold onto some version of identity. And that's a very false version of identity. You know, you're talking about being a human doing. Right. And when when in a society teaches us to be human doings, when first and foremost we are human beings. Right. And so this is this is, I think, at the heart of of the problem. Ah ah. Ways of understanding and our ways of functioning are crumbling. It's scaring the crap out of most people. And so they are becoming more and more tightly bonded, tightly and tightly woven to their belief system because they are afraid they won't know who they are. If those systems crumble. *Ari* [00:29:51] That's a that's an interesting way of looking at it. You know, as I was thinking about what you're saying. The image in my head was that of meat inside of a pressure cooker. All right. You put the meat in the pressure cooker and it's hard. *Ari* [00:30:10] You put it in. *Ari* [00:30:12] Massive amounts of pressure and heat. [00:30:16] Make it soft vs., say, a diamond that's been created over years of intense pressure and heat. *Ari* [00:30:27] Right. Creates this beautiful thing called the diamond. *Ari* [00:30:32] And I believe that in some ways the weaknesses of our society were caused because our culture was like you were saying earlier, our parents wanted us to be have it better than they had it. *Ari* [00:30:50] And so they attempted at every point to remove the pressure cooker. *Ari* [00:30:59] And the way I look at it, it begins with C sections at birth because they have found that the people who have C sections that are born from a C section. And this isn't this isn't to say to somebody who's had one, you're bad for having one. *Ari* [00:31:20] It's just to say that in general that the first struggle of a human being is the struggle for life coming out that small tube. *Ari* [00:31:33] And then coming out into the world and we have removed that first struggle and some people have postulated that that has itself. *Ari* [00:31:45] Become part of the weaknesses of the people who have been born that way. I know that when when Gabriel was born, we had to have a C-section because of a fibroid. *Ari* [00:31:58] And we did what we called a natural C-section, which was smaller hole. And we had him, like, squeeze out more. So it would be mimicking more experience. Right. *Ari* [00:32:13] But the more we coddle our society, the more we remove the pressure cooker. And, you know, the lesson of the lobster is is the same a lobster. *Ari* [00:32:27] Outgrows his shell by making the shelf so tight around the body that it has to be removed. *Ari* [00:32:37] And we have artificially removed the shell and this stunted the growth. Right. What do you think of any of what I just said? *David* [00:32:50] I think it's spot on. I think that part of why we have so many immune system problems in people today is because we stopped, you know, when I was a kid. *David* [00:33:03] We didn't have the term free range children because all of us were free range children. So there wasn't a term for it. It's what kids did. They they ran around and had a great time together and got in trouble sometimes and fell and and scraped their knee or broke their leg or whatever it was, parents who coddled their children. *David* [00:33:26] On the other hand, these were the children who who grew up with entitlement disorder. These are the children who grew up thinking that the world owed them something because they didn't grow up with self responsibility. They didn't grow up with with experiencing growth coming from pain. Not to say that we should be seeking out pain all the time, because I don't think we're supposed to seek out pain all the time. I think we're supposed to have be familiar enough with pain so we don't run from it. And so it can wisen us. It can help us become wiser rather than more defeated. So, you know, when we have when we have a society that is antiseptic, that is trying to protect people, we fall into that old teaching story. *David* [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong? And of course, the mom's response in this teaching story, the healthy response was, honey. *David* [00:35:12] Your compassion was wonderful. *David* [00:35:16] And you tried to save this butterfly from an experience it needed to have in order to be able to fly away, and you simply didn't know that. And this in turn, reminds me of one of my favorite sayings from a 20th century theologian by the name of Reinhold Niebuhr, which is that our mission? *David* [00:35:39] Is if we really care about elevating people and about elevating the world. Our mission is to both comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. Not one or the other. *David* [00:35:56] Both. And this is what I was referring to in the beginning in our first segment about at the end of the segment about. About the two forms of love. If we have nurturance without challenge, nurturing love, without challenging love, we get narcissistic, entitled people. If we have challenging without nurturance, challenging love without nurturance, we get shamed. *David* [00:36:22] And disempowered people or tyrants. It's got to be both and. *David* [00:36:30] But we don't live in a both and society anymore. We live in an either or society. And that is the fundamental sickness of our society today is vastly immature either or thinking that we are programed into having. And that we better wake the hell up out of. If we want to evolve into a next golden age. *Ari* [00:36:52] That's that's a very profound thing. And, you know, I'm going to ask you a question I haven't asked anybody, which is. *Ari* [00:37:01] If I was to ask you a question that would sum up. The sum total of everything we've talked about. Right. *Ari* [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be. *Ari* [00:37:30] What would that path be? *David* [00:37:34] It would be the path toward what you've heard me say. It's the path towards self sovereignty that serves us all. It's the intersection of self responsibility in the context of living in a in a society where we are responsible for ourselves and we are contributing to the common good. Not one over the other. Self sovereignty that serves us all. *Ari* [00:38:04] That is that's beautiful and I so appreciate you being here and I think we've had plenty of. *Ari* [00:38:12] Tools that somebody can take away from this conversation and start applying, if you were to give just one other tool for the how, so that somebody can take that conceptual knowledge and wisdom that we just spent an hour and a half disseminating. Right. One simple tool. *Ari* [00:38:38] To activate that in them. What would that will be. *David* [00:38:44] That the toll would be a an imagery, a piece of imagery. That's about shifting our mindset. And the imagery is of a jigsaw puzzle. So imagine a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces are out on the table and they're all upside down. And we're in a group of people and we're all busy turning all the pieces over so that we see what's what's on each piece. *David* [00:39:11] And then, sure enough, some of us cluster around finding pieces that are the corners of the puzzle and others of us cluster around finding pieces that are the edges of the puzzle. And others of us start making discoveries about parts of inside the puzzle that are elements of the picture that the puzzle is creating, like a window or a door or flower or whatever. *David* [00:39:40] And imagine that one other thing, which is that unlike a typical jigsaw puzzle, we're on the cover of the box. You see what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done. *David* [00:39:53] There is no box, so we don't know what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done. And we have two choices. We can either start to polarize and accuse the cornerists of being horrific people because all they care about is the corners or the edge ists or the flowerists or the doorists or the window ests. *David* [00:40:17] Rather than saying. Isn't it wonderful that you're so focused on the corners that you're identifying those on behalf of all of us? And the edges and the flowers and the and the doors and the windows so that we can co discover togather what the picture is meant to look like when it's all put together. That vision of synergy, of collaboration, if we can keep that in mind and in our hearts and in our spirits when we are interacting with other people who have different perspectives from ours. *David* [00:40:55] The magic is just going to start happening. That's the last tool I'll leave you with. *Ari* [00:41:01] That is. *Ari* [00:41:02] That's a beautiful image and I so appreciate you being here. I appreciate this conversation and the gifts that you've just given the audience. I hope that they will walk away from this conversation, having pulled at least 20 or 30, not just one, but 20 or 30 good gems that they can then take with them and and really, really start to create their new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world, because this is my way of impacting the world. *Ari* [00:41:41] Is to bring these kinds of conversations out into full view of the public so that we can have deep, considerate conversations about where we want to be, who we want to be and what we want to create in this world. *Ari* [00:41:58] And I really appreciate you being here. What's again, you know, I'd like you to actually say the Web site, both for you as well as for that particular integrity piece and how people can get a hold of you if they'd like to learn more from you. *David* [00:42:17] Sure. So, first of all, thank you for your mission of service. Because what you're doing through this podcast has the potential to have widespread, important, significant impact, positive impact in the world. So my main Web site is DrGruder.com. That's drgruder.com. And if you want to be in touch with me, you'll find on drgruder.com a blue button that says contact and click on the blue button and you'll have different ways of contacting me. The Integrity Guide to having it all course that's available. You can find that by going to drgruder.com/academy. That'll take you to the Doctor Gruder Academy page. And it's the first course that's listed. dr.gruder.com/academy. *Ari* [00:43:17] Excellent. Thank you so much. And thank you audience for sticking with us, listening to this episode. *Ari* [00:43:23] And I wish you a really, really blessed day. *Ari* [00:43:29] And I wish you the kahunas to challenge yourself. *Ari* [00:43:38] To become the person that, you know, you are already inside and to shift what you might be doing now to create something more based on results performance and create a better world with us. Collaborate with us so that we together can bring in and usher in this new society that is focused on creating a world we all can live in, in harmony with nature. *Ari* [00:44:11] And I just I bless you all. Hope you have a healthy day. This has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow with your host, Ari Gronich. And thank you so much, David Gruder, for being here. We really appreciate all of your wisdom and experience. *David* [00:44:27] Thank you. Thank you for having me. *Ari* [00:44:30] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow. Com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. *Ari* [00:44:55] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.
David Gruder returns for the second time. If you missed his first interview please check out episode 6 of the Create A New Tomorrow Podcast. Dr. David Gruder is a twelve award winning integrative psychologist. He's president of the Integrity Culture Systems, which work focuses on what he calls self sovereignty, and that serves us all. He equips leaders, influencers and entrepreneurs who are called to repair and evolve the world in their own unique ways with inner, outer and spiritual skills to expand their positive impact. And a super change Catalyst's without sacrificing their lightheartedness, health, financial well-being or cherished personal and work relationships *Episode Highlights* *Ari* [00:04:15] How do you break through that kind of organizational is in, whether it's in corporations and governments in whatever or in families or in yourself, even the organizational how you've organized your own being. *David* [00:06:04] And for the words and actions that the emotions I'm having about the stories I'm telling myself about the parts of reality that I'm paying attention to have on those to whom I'm in relationship or with whom I'm in relationship. That, to me, is the essence of spiritual responsibility. So that's the personal side of it. There's a societal side of it, too. Should I go on to that? *David* [00:12:15] My belief system is the right belief system because after all, all of the other beliefs that my core assumptions are based on makes sense with my core assumptions. So my belief system must be right. Well, it does. It doesn't. Must be right. That's that's. That's erroneous thinking. That's arrogant thinking. And the reason that's important to the question that you are asking is because when I approach these kinds of of questions of paradigm of belief system from a place of humility. Then I get to see everyone else as my brothers and my sisters. I get to see people who have different life experiences for mine that have lessons and wisdom to teach me, just as I have certain life experiences that might have wisdom to offer others. *Ari* [00:17:26] And that's whether it's, you know, in this day and age is the mask versus the know mask. Right. Or the hug versus no hug. Social distance versus. Come together. You know, if we're able to have these kinds of conversations, don't you think we would get a long way, much better in society? *David* [00:22:10] The blindness that people end up having, they don't know it. I call it a spell. Most people, in my experience are under a cultural spell. They don't know how to see that they're under a spell and therefore they don't know that there's something to get free of. And it's incredibly damaging. *Ari* [00:23:29] A community of melting pot people. So when you know, when we hear people say, if you don't like it, leave it. Or if you're you know, if you think differently than I do, you should leave the country or whatever those those statements are that people make. *Ari* [00:27:26] That is so true. You know, my my grandfather came over to this country when he was 12 years old, I believe, by himself on a boat through Ellis Island, became a multi, multi millionaire, lost it all, gained it all, lost it all gained it all. *Ari* [00:27:44] But he spoke eleven languages, eleven Austrian, Hungarian, you know, Yiddish, Hebrew, Spanish, French. I mean, he spoke German a lot of languages because, you know, as a salesman that was his job. But even even before he was 12. Growing up in Austria, Hungarian Empire, he was initially taught and this was in maybe the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. He was taught these languages as just your being born. *Ari* [00:47:46] Absolutely. You know, I'd like you to maybe expand on that a little bit, these ideas, because this is really what what my book in this podcast is about is how do we go about with tools, with techniques, with training, with mindset. How do we go about taking this world that we created. Right. And saying, OK. The way I look at it is this is not optimal, we can create it better. So how do we create something that is more optimal for our own human growth? So let's expand on this for a little bit. And just I'm going to let you kind of go, because I know you've you've done a lot of thinking about it. We've talked about this before *Resources and Links* * *https://drgruder.com* * *https://drgruder.com/academy* * *https://CreateANewTomorrow.com* * *https://www.facebook.com/arigronich* *Full Transcription* *Ari&Davidpart1.mp3* *Ari* [00:00:00] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. *Ari* [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast. *Ari* [00:01:01] Welcome back to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow. *Ari* [00:01:05] I am your host, Ari Granite's, and I am back with Dr. David Gruder. He is a 12 time award winning integrative psychologist. And more than that, he's an organizational psychologist. He has done some amazing things. I call him the guru of gurus, the mentor of mentors. And welcome back, David. I am so glad that we're able to do this again and provide so much more of your wisdom to the audience. *David* [00:01:33] That's a pleasure to be back with you, Ari. *Ari* [00:01:35] Awesome. Thank you so much. Tell us a little bit about how you got started in organizational psychology. Why did you choose that field specifically and what it is that you're looking to create in this new tomorrow, New World? *David* [00:01:52] So how I got into the field. Kind of starts at at age 16. I was expected to become a professional musician. And we're certainly on track for that. I had started performing as a child in a lot of different capacities. And so I was not being asked, what university are you going to? I was being asked, what conservatory are you're going to? And by the time I was 16, in some way, that is still kind of magical and mysterious to me. I knew that even though music was and is my first love, psychology was my calling. And I also knew that I was. Called to have impact on elevating society, not just on individuals. And so in my doctoral program, I selected a doctoral program that was going to enable me to get a PHD. That was split between clinical psychology, which is the deep inner work and organizational development psychology, which is the interpersonal the work of of what happens in groups and systems. And so that was my best way to equip myself to elevate leaders and cultures throughout my career. *Ari* [00:03:14] That is that it's awesome. You know, one of the things that I say a lot is we made this shit up and we can make it up better. Yeah. Think that people forget in many cases that the society as it is, is a figment of our imagination. We created it. We created the buildings. We created the design of the houses. We created the design of the societies. And when something is suboptimal, not up to performance standards, right. Then it's kind of incumbent upon us to recreate it in a different, better way. But we have organized around our creation and there's a psychological element to this is how we live and this is how we're always going to live and this is how we should live. And we want to go back to the way that it was right or the way that we think it should be. *Ari* [00:04:15] How do you break through that kind of organizational is in, whether it's in corporations and governments in whatever or in families or in yourself, even the organizational how you've organized your own being. *Ari* [00:04:31] What do you what would be some some tools, some ways that people could think about this a little bit differently so they'd be open to the possibilities now? *David* [00:04:42] Great question. I agree with you completely. We have massive imaginations as human beings were incredible. *David* [00:04:50] The natural compulsive storytellers. We make up stories left and right. And so, yes, everything we see around us is of our creation. We invented an imaginary thing, called it a corporation corporate structure. We invented an imaginary thing called money. I mean, you don't go down a whole long list of things that we invented and then those things started being or seeming real to us. So the tails wagging the dog in that sense. *David* [00:05:26] And so where where this starts is with a personal ownership piece and. And a societal ownership piece. So the personal ownership piece for me has to do with self responsible responsibility. I and I alone I'm responsible for the parts of reality that I pay attention to for the stories I make up about what those parts of reality that I'm paying attention to mean for the emotions that the stories I tell myself about the parts of reality that I'm attending to activate in me. *David* [00:06:04] And for the words and actions that the emotions I'm having about the stories I'm telling myself about the parts of reality that I'm paying attention to have on those to whom I'm in relationship or with whom I'm in relationship. That, to me, is the essence of spiritual responsibility. So that's the personal side of it. There's a societal side of it, too. Should I go on to that? *Ari* [00:06:30] Yes, please. *David* [00:06:32] So the societal responsibility part. Has to do with with the intersection of freedom and responsibility, which we seem to have forgotten collectively as a society, even though I know certain individuals who haven't forgotten that. *David* [00:06:51] But as a society, we seem to have forgotten it. You know, there are there are lots of people who are taking the position essentially that the most important thing in society is freedom. And others are saying the most important thing in society is responsibility, social responsibility. *David* [00:07:12] And both groups are equally and oppositely insane because of what they've forgotten, because freedom without responsibility is narcissism and responsibility without freedom is tyranny. And when we have forgotten that we invented society and that society or society's rules are not meant to be the boss of us, they are meant to be in service to our evolution as a species and our stewardship of a planet. When we forget those things, then we have everything upside down. Same thing goes with patriotism, by the way. You know, I view patriotism as nested dolls. You know, those Russian or Ukrainian dolls where there's a doll with an a doll with an a doll? *David* [00:08:08] Well, this is something else that we've forgotten as a as a planet collectively. Again, individuals are exceptions to this, where we take a position that in my country comes first. And, you know, whatever impact that has on your country, well, that's your problem. Well, you know, patriotism, if it's integrated and if it's saying it's nested. So my first responsibility is to stewarding the planet. My second responsibility is to humanity inside of that. I have patriotism to my country, to my religious or spiritual groups, to my communities, to my business, etcetera, etcetera. And inside of that is my patriotism to my to my family and my and my primary love relationship and to myself. When we when we are in either or thinking that says I have to sacrifice one of those nested dolls for the other nesting dolls or or in order to attend to one nesting doll, I have to be willing to sacrifice the rest. I'm engaging in insane societal thinking. *Ari* [00:09:20] You know, that's really interesting. I think a lot of people believe that they have to focus the exact opposite of what you just said. Right. Self family, city, county. I mean, it goes out and then eventually maybe we'll get to the world at large. Right. Or humanity at large and and so forth. I never quite understood the idea of patriotism. And I'll tell you why. Patriotism to me has always been the same thing as being a white supremacist or a well, saying to somebody, I'm proud to be white, I'm proud to be black. I'm proud to be blue. I'm proud to be green. It's something that you have no control over where you were born. Right. So you're born and you know, Latvia versus being born in the U.S.. So all of a sudden, you must be a lower form of human because you were born there, but you had no no choice in that. Just like you must be if you're black, you must be a lower form of a human being because of your color, even though you had no particular choice in that. And it really relates nothing to character. So how do we evolve beyond the label of. Well, any of the labels. But beyond the label of patriotism, beyond the label of I'm proud because. Of what I am versus what I do. *David* [00:11:05] Right. Oh, my gosh, there are so many layers to this question. *David* [00:11:10] You know, the let me start with what you said about in this narrative of a person saying, I can't help where I was born or the color of my skin. Even that is open to question. You know, there are metaphysical belief systems that that say that we do choose our life circumstances. So the humility piece with this is to remember that all belief systems, every belief system this planet has ever seen is based on its own set of core assumptions, such as I chose where you know, how the circumstances under which I was born. I didn't choose those core assumptions that are neither verifiable nor unverifiable that can either be proved nor disproved. And when we forget that, we move straight into arrogance. *David* [00:12:15] My belief system is the right belief system because after all, all of the other beliefs that my core assumptions are based on makes sense with my core assumptions. So my belief system must be right. Well, it does. It doesn't. Must be right. That's that's. That's erroneous thinking. That's arrogant thinking. And the reason that's important to the question that you are asking is because when I approach these kinds of of questions of paradigm of belief system from a place of humility. Then I get to see everyone else as my brothers and my sisters. I get to see people who have different life experiences for mine that have lessons and wisdom to teach me, just as I have certain life experiences that might have wisdom to offer others. And it's not a competition over who has more wisdom for whom it is this delicious opportunity. Life is this delicious opportunity to compare notes and learn from each other and discover more about the bigger picture from the smaller slices that we each see individually when we have that kind of attitude. We are able to sit in the both and of relishing our own identity, you know, relishing the unearned privileges and the unearned targeting that we get to experience as a result of the life that we have been born into. And we get to relish the diversity of humanity. So instead of it being one or the other, that I'm I'm either only identified through the color of my skin or I refuse to recognize that my skin has has a particular tint to it. How about both hand? *Ari* [00:14:20] That's a really interesting point of view. I think that what that does for people when they adopt that kind of a point of view is it allows for an openness and a willingness to understand another's point of view. And I'll give you an example of of an experience that I had about 10 years or so ago. I had a roommate who was a Palestinian Muslim woman. And I am a Latino Jew who I you know, I call myself a mutt because I have pieces, I think everything inside of me. So I've never actually identified as a label, but I've definitely got a lot of that Jewish culture and Latino culture in me. And so she and I would have these amazing conversations about the Palestinian and Jewish and Israeli conflict, the Muslim and Jewish conflict. And, you know, what was fascinating is her cousin was an attorney who worked for Hamas, PLO. And the government of Palestine. And did negotiations with Israel. So we actually had an an opportunity in that in those conversations to create some real change, because what I didn't know is she would call him up after we had a conversation and say, OK, you might want to talk to them about this. You might want to write. You might want to have these kinds of conversations with when doing the negotiating. *Ari* [00:16:09] And she was like a sister to me. We didn't have that feeling of being separate is even with our separate thoughts and our separate opinions. We didn't agree on everything for sure. But she was like a sister. We considered ourselves each others, family. *Ari* [00:16:27] And that allowed for so much healing within both of us from what we preconceived as in what's the word that they use in divorce? *David* [00:16:43] Irreconcilable differences. *Ari* [00:16:45] Both differences. Yes. So what we would consider to be a reference. A reconciled, salable differences became very reconcilable. Very common for us to get to a level of understanding where we were the same, where we were different. And how the how that happened. *Ari* [00:17:08] And I find that what you're saying is that kind of a conversation. When doing peace talks would be so beneficial. *Ari* [00:17:20] Yeah, to to have that kind of a conversation with the people who disagree with us. *Ari* [00:17:26] And that's whether it's, you know, in this day and age is the mask versus the know mask. Right. Or the hug versus no hug. Social distance versus. Come together. You know, if we're able to have these kinds of conversations, don't you think we would get a long way, much better in society? *David* [00:17:47] Not only would we get along much better, but the quality of our problem solving would skyrocket. Because. When people are in their own silos, you know, when they're when they're in what is in some circles, the circles that study propaganda, they call them information bubbles. They they're only getting a reflection of their own beliefs. Coming back at them from social media and other Internet sources because of how the the algorithms are actually set up on the Internet, where the algorithms are deciding for us what we're going to get exposed to, what products we're going to get exposed to, what perspectives we're gonna get exposed to and when we're in information bubbles. That's a prescription for divisiveness because in an information bubble, because all I'm seeing is my own reflection. Now, it's easy to imagine that I must be right. Whereas when we're given these these sacred opportunities to really know and interact with people who have very different life experiences and backgrounds than we do, then there's a level of richness that expands our vision of ourselves, of our world, and of what solutions could look like. *Ari* [00:19:20] Yeah, that that's that's really cool, I was watching a video recently, and it was a gentleman who what they, you know, they say infiltrated the KKK. He was a black gentleman, but he didn't infiltrate. He just started having conversations with one of the grand. Pubis don't know what they call them, grandmasters of the KKK, and yet and over the years, they became very close friends. *Ari* [00:19:50] Began to trust each other because they got to know each other. Yes, then I believe that it's somewhere around 60, 70 different members of the KKK ended up denouncing that. Belief system. They still like the camaraderie that came from being part of the group. Right. But they denounced what the group was focused on. I guess you could say, and it's an interesting form of psychology. *Ari* [00:20:23] You get to learn about somebody or about a different culture, and all of a sudden it opens your eyes and heart rate. They say that the cure to racism is traveling. *Ari* [00:20:35] What do you think of that statement? *David* [00:20:37] Yes, the cure to centrism. Any kind of ethnocentrism is to be exposed to other cultures. The conversations that I have with my fellow Americans who have not traveled extensively outside of the United States are profoundly different from the conversations that I have with my fellow Americans who have traveled extensively and by travel. I don't mean that they've that somebody has gone to another country and then they've stayed in American hotels and eaten American foods and gotten tours around whatever that location is by American tour guides. That's not traveling. That's pretending to travel. I'm talking about the real deal. And when we're exposed to other cultures, if we have any kind of teach ability in us at all, we can't help but be impacted. We can't help but have our world view expanded when people are very, very ethnocentric. Whatever the the centrism is about American centric, let's say, because they've never traveled outside of the United States. They may not have even traveled to all the different sections of our country because our country is a bunch of mini called countries. Culturally, you know, the culture in the Deep South is not the same as the culture in New York or as the culture in California, etcetera, etcetera. *David* [00:22:10] The blindness that people end up having, they don't know it. I call it a spell. Most people, in my experience are under a cultural spell. They don't know how to see that they're under a spell and therefore they don't know that there's something to get free of. And it's incredibly damaging. *Ari* [00:22:32] Yeah, that's interesting. I used to I I'm very good with accents. Right. And I used to be able to tell if somebody was from Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx, Manhattan, which New York accent. It was that they had just because somebody was from Texas or if they're from Tennessee. Right. From. From their accent. And what you just said is so true. We are such a diverse culture of many different countries met. *Ari* [00:23:04] You know, this this whole thing about us being a melting pot. And so here's my question to you. If we a melting pot of all of these different cultures. How do we convince or shift the perspective of American to. *Ari* [00:23:29] A community of melting pot people. So when you know, when we hear people say, if you don't like it, leave it. Or if you're you know, if you think differently than I do, you should leave the country or whatever those those statements are that people make. *Ari* [00:23:47] How do we shift that so that people understand that this melting pot and the differences in culture is what makes us great, not what weakens us? *David* [00:23:58] A great question again. I, I think that what will help a lot is understanding the pendulum swing in the immigrant mindset that we've undergone over the last 80 years or so, 70 years, somewhere in that in that timeframe, that there was a time when the immigrant mindset that the dominant immigrant mindset was you come to the United States and you leave your old country, your old culture behind and you assimilate into being an American. And what that looked like back then. And I grew up in a family like this. Was that you? You gave up the language of the country that you came to came from and you gave up its its cultural traditions. And and you you tried to blend into some notion of what being an American was. And now we are at the other end of that pendulum swing where we have people that have no desire. Some people, not not all people, but some people have no desire to assimilate into American society. They want the experience of being in this country while staying fully identified with whatever the culture or country or languages that they came from. And I think both of those perspectives have massive blindspots. We have to have a common bond, a common sense of purpose and mission. And that common bond is in the context of the United States would be the the original version of the American dream, the version the American dream that birthed this country, not the delusional version of the American dream that it was replaced with in the 1950s. *David* [00:25:56] And the diversity piece of that is that I inside of this common bond that I share with you. I relish my uniqueness as an individual, as a culture. My ability to speak multiple languages, God forbid, like most Europeans, are multilingual. Most Americans are not multilingual. And in Europe, there is no there's no fear when I mean, when I'm working in Switzerland, there is no fear that I encounter among the Swiss, for example, that they're losing their culture because they're having conversations in French, in German, in Italian and in the one of the native versions of Swiss language, which is called her Monch. There's no feeling of, oh, I'm I'm suddenly not Swiss because I'm speaking all of these languages. There's there's a both. And about that, there's pride in being Swiss. And what the Swiss culture collectively stands for. And at the same time, there's a joy in expressing a flavor of that being that version of being Swiss. We're missing that in this country. We're missing the boat and we're in a war between blind acculturation or refusal, a refusal to a culture rate. It's got to be both. *Ari* [00:27:26] That is so true. You know, my my grandfather came over to this country when he was 12 years old, I believe, by himself on a boat through Ellis Island, became a multi, multi millionaire, lost it all, gained it all, lost it all gained it all. *Ari* [00:27:44] But he spoke eleven languages, eleven Austrian, Hungarian, you know, Yiddish, Hebrew, Spanish, French. I mean, he spoke German a lot of languages because, you know, as a salesman that was his job. But even even before he was 12. Growing up in Austria, Hungarian Empire, he was initially taught and this was in maybe the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. He was taught these languages as just your being born. *Ari* [00:28:20] You're growing up and you're learning. My parents, on the other hand, my dad who speaks German and Spanish and English and Yiddish. Right. But he they only spoke Spanish if they didn't want us to know what they were saying. And so I was I took a lot of years of Spanish, but I never learned how to speak it fluently or fluidly, I should say, you know, same with Hebrew. I took Hebrew school, but when I went to Israel, I couldn't speak Hebrew for anything based on how they speak it on the streets, right? Absolutely. No, I felt. And every time I've traveled, I have felt so culturally inept because of my lack of being able to speak another language. So what you just said is so true. And and I really appreciate you saying that, because when you speak somebody else's language, you get to know their culture much better. Right. Especially if you could dream. In their language. *David* [00:29:30] So you and I came from very similar families. Both sides of my family came from what was then the Australian Gary, an empire. One side of my family came from the Austrian side. The other side of the family came from the Hungarian side. And my parents as well, both of whom were born in the United States. It's their parents who came over from from Europe. My parents, when they didn't want my brother and me to understand what they were talking about. That's when they talk to Yiddish. And when I first started traveling extensively internationally in the 1970s, what I discovered to my great delight were that was that the two fastest ways to access the heart of a country that I was in were to speak its language and eat its food and hang out with people who were from that country rather than go looking for other Americans to hang out with. And I got huge enrichment from the willingness to be a clumsy imbecile in another language, because what I found very rapidly was that most people in the countries that I visited were very appreciative and forgiving of my inability to speak their language simply because I was authentically attempting to speak their language. And it opened up all kinds of doors. *Ari* [00:30:59] That is that's a that's a really good point. You know, when I was in Greece during the 2004 Paralympics. We learned a lot of Greek because I was going to be there for a month and I had to learn it. I had to learn what what they were saying on the on the trail, you know, the trains and and so on. And some of the words that are not appropriate to say. Right. So they had us with these. But. Packs as part of our uniform. But you called them a fanny pack. Well, you know, you were you were saying something untoward because Fanny means something different in European here than it does. That's right. Our culture. And so learning those things so that you don't offend, but you also learn. *Ari* [00:31:51] Oh, that's a odd name for that particular body part. Know, it's an interesting thing. And I would go to this this restaurant after a ten, twelve hour day. And this one gentleman was from Boston, but from while he was from Greece, we had lived in Boston. It came back to Greece. So he spoke a few languages and he and I would sit and chat for an hour, two hours, three hours a night and just get to know each other. And it was interesting because when I was there, they had the Algerians coming in to the country and doing all of the cheap labor for building the stadiums and so on for the Olympics was such an interesting thing for me because. We have in this country what we call the Mexicans, right? It's not Mexican people. It's the Mexicans that will do your cheap labor. And I was thinking, you know, every country has got to have is going to have immigrants that they call taking their jobs and doing this this kind of thing. And I think about it and I go, well, why wouldn't why weren't the Greeks doing the job? Because it was a lot easier, would have been a lot easier to hire the people who were from there. Right. So what is it about us as people in general that think that outsourcing and doing these kinds of things is such a wrong thing vs. allowing people who want to work in something that they're good at and like doing and then we get to do the things that we like doing. Right. *Ari* [00:33:38] So how can we balance these two pieces so that they make more sense for people? *David* [00:33:49] Well, I think it's important to understand with those particular dimensions that that there are certain people who who look on certain kinds of jobs as being beneath them. There are other people who might not look on a particular job as being beneath them, but the job pays a lower amount per hour than the amount of money that they want to be making per hour. And so they won't take the job because they think it pays too little. And so when we've got and we've seen this throughout cultures around the world, I mean, the Japanese, for example, had the same kind of attitude toward Koreans for a long time, just as a for instance, you name the culture there. *David* [00:34:40] There has been this kind of where the where the real people of our country. And then we have these people that really aren't us, but we've got to bring them in because they'll do what we need doing because they're willing to and they're willing to get paid less than we're willing to get paid. And we've got more important things to do that that kind of of that mean it's a form of elitism. Obviously, it's also partly propelled, though, by in the United States, by the old immigrant mentality. You know, my parents like like you're talking about when when my grandparents came to the States, they came penniless. They they gave up everything in their prior lives. And so my my parents both grew up in tenements. They grew up in the slums because their parents could barely make ends meet because they were taking jobs that were the the dregs of society kinds of jobs in order to make enough money to not be deported. You know, enough money to because they became they all became American citizens, but they didn't have the education to or the entrepreneurial spirit if they didn't have the education to really succeed in high level ways. So they put all of their energy into making sure that their children got the kind of education in the United States that they didn't have. *David* [00:36:13] So their children create better lives for themselves than their parents could. And my parents in term had in turn had that same idea that they wanted my brother and me to have a better life than they had. So we were enter generationally, we were on an upward spiral in the belief in the American dream. *Ari* [00:36:37] You know, that's a good point. I think every generation is designed as a step ladder. Right. And if we continually move up generation to generation to generation up that ladder, we can create something that's incredible. We just have to be willing to shift ladders when that ladder stops. Right. So one ladders, 10 feet. We've got to be on a 20 foot ladder to get past so we can switch. And right now, we're we're on this trajectory of people who want to go backwards down the ladder again. Right. And people who want to go forwards. We have this big confusion. I think it's a confusion, although a lot of people are very sure of themselves when it comes to progression versus regression. And, you know, progressive and liberal has gotten a bad name, conservative has gotten a bad name and those kinds of things. So if we're ever going to change and create a new tomorrow. What are the elements that we have to look at? In order to to start moving forward on and keep going up the ladder vs. regressing down? *David* [00:37:57] Well, I think first of all. *David* [00:38:00] We have in our society a massive pandemic of learned helplessness, the belief. Nothing I do makes a difference. The negative things I do don't really impact other people. The positive things I do don't really impact other people. So all you know, all I'm left with is let me let me live for today as much as I can. And, you know, I probably won't be alive in 10 years, so who cares? And so there's an unrealistic, you know, self-serving kind of undercurrent in parts of our society. There's a learned helplessness, undercurrent in parts of our society. There is a mentality in other parts of our society that says, well, we we've achieved things that other people haven't achieved. So we're entitled to look down our noses at those people who haven't achieved what we think they should have achieved at the at that point in their lives or in the in their generations of being American. The first stage, I think, is about spotting the spell. It's about waking up to the ways in which our minds. There's a battle for our brains. It's going on and waking up to the ways that our minds are being hijacked or that attempts to hijack our minds are occurring on a daily basis across the political and ideological spectrums. I think we need to align with our fundamental design. You know, there there there are certain qualities that unite all of us as a species, as humanity. *David* [00:39:46] We all have the drive to be who we truly are. It's our drive for authenticity. We all have the drive to bond with others. It's our drive for connection. And we all have the drive to influence the world around us. And that's our drive for impact. When we forget that our basic nature is about living at the intersection of authenticity, connection and impact. We are susceptible to being manipulated and propagandized by stuff out there that's going to that's trying to tell us that other things are more important than those things. So we have to align with our design or realign with our design. We have to strengthen our underpinnings. We have to strengthen our teach ability, are our personal well-being, our health are self care, our discernment, our ability to to recognize those kinds of subtle thought processes, critical thinking, if you will, rather than this ridiculous, you know, either or polarized thinking. We have to learn how to recognize the promptings from our deepest selves. We have to learn how to recognize wisdom that comes from whatever source we individually happen to feel connected with that we are a part of. And that's larger than us. We we need to learn how to harvest profound blessings and gifts from undesired and even unacceptable life experiences. *David* [00:41:23] We need all of those underpinnings in order to function in thrive, all rather than survival as individuals. We need to learn how to have right relationship with our power rather than to either run from power because the role models we see around power or our modeling really screwed up dysfunctional versions of power. So we want nothing to do with power or to pursue dysfunctional power. And we need to be really good at facilitating repair and evolution in whatever spheres of influence we're called to have positive impact. If we're all doing that, if we're all busy being too busy doing those kinds of things, then our differences become cherished and our common bond becomes sacred. And when we got that way of functioning as a society, the way we're going to function is vastly different from how we're functioning today. *Ari* [00:42:27] Yeah, you know, there is a number of things that you said there that that I really enjoyed hearing. And one of the things that, you know, my my mentor. I call him Buckminster Fuller would say is that we have to get over the auspicious. And this is a paraphrase. So don't quote me on it, but it's paraphrased. It over the auspicious notion that we have to work to be a value. And. *Ari* [00:43:01] I go back when I hear that phrase in my head, I go back to people like Thomas Jefferson, Leonardo da Vinci, Plato, you know, like I go back to the people that we consider great people of history. And I think, were they valuable in their lifetime or were they valuable in their death? Were they valuable as human beings because they created what they created or because they existed to begin with? And when I think of this notion,. *Ari* [00:43:37] I think of all the technology that we have created and all the technology that we can create. And we've seemed to placed so much emphasis of value on how much a person person works versus what a person contributes. And the results that we get, we do this in medicine all the time. A doctor gets paid for procedures, not for results, not for what they create, but for what they treat. And so to me, I want to go backwards a little bit to a time in which we don't have the technology. Now, this is this is just a utopian theory at the moment, right? *Ari* [00:44:27] I believe that we have borrowed with all the technology that we have and we consume. We've borrowed our imaginations from other people. And thereby have left our own imagination by the wayside. And that's going to become more and more evident in the next couple generations. Right. So how do we stop borrowing other people's. Imagination's and I call that, you know, game boxes. You know, any kind of game boxes and Internets and TV's and so on. When we had more time on our hands, we did more with the time that we had. I don't believe that people are lazy. I believe that people have been conditioned to cut their imaginations and thereby not create and be authentic in who they could be. So how do we get back to being our authentic selves when we have to eat? We have to live and we have to pay to be valuable. *David* [00:45:36] Let me answer at a macro level and on a micro level. At the macro level. We are culturally still in a phase with technology where we are intoxicated with it. So it's a new toy, a new set of toys, and we're drunk. We're drunk on the new toy. *David* [00:45:57] And so, of course, the toy becomes the boss of us and we relinquish our thought process to this new toy developed mentally in a society. Those phases are eventually outgrown. Where we we ultimately develop right relationship with new innovations rather than be intoxicated by them at the at the micro level. I think it's crucial for each one of us to discover and move into alignment with whatever are our deepest sense of life. Purpose happens to be because when we're living in alignment with our purpose. Our creativity comes back online and things like technology. Become what they are meant to be in the first place, which is tools to propel our creativity and our imagination rather than substitutes for being creative and imaginative. And I love that you brought up Bucky Fuller. One of my favorite of many quotes of his is the best way to predict the future is to invent it. And we've got the tail wagging the dog here. We're looking at trying to figure out how to predict the future so that we can be ready for it. Rather than asking ourselves what is the future we want to create together, the future we want to live in? What is the world we want to live in? And the world we want to leave to our children and our grandchildren. We need to stop predicting it and start inventing it. And, of course, like you said, in order to do that, we have to realign our creativity. *Ari* [00:47:46] Absolutely. You know, I'd like you to maybe expand on that a little bit, these ideas, because this is really what what my book in this podcast is about is how do we go about with tools, with techniques, with training, with mindset. How do we go about taking this world that we created. Right. And saying, OK. The way I look at it is this is not optimal, we can create it better. So how do we create something that is more optimal for our own human growth? So let's expand on this for a little bit. And just I'm going to let you kind of go, because I know you've you've done a lot of thinking about it. We've talked about this before. *David* [00:48:37] Yeah, well, on a brass tacks level, we can. *David* [00:48:43] Simply start making a habit of doing what is already being done in a more narrow way in high functioning companies, in a high functioning company. Among other things, one of the one of their one of the traditions or rituals in a high functioning company is that teams get together regularly, not just once in a while. They get together regularly and they ask the question, what's working well and why does that matter? What positive impact does those things that are working well have? *David* [00:49:18] And then they ask a second question. What would what could what could be even better? What would be even better? If so, what if we did this and that and this other thing differently? Why would that matter? What positive impacts would would the up leveling of best practices have and. Healthy company is constantly looking at it at their best practices and saying, well, those might have been the best practices 10 years ago. And thank goodness we develop them today in the middle of the Covid crisis. Not so much. What would what are what what in vet best practices would we invent? Now, that same kind of boots on the ground attitude. Is a equally relevant to crafting an elevated society. We need to look at what's working well and why that matters so that we will do those things more. And we need to look at the even better ifs and how it different changes and improvements are going to elevate our functioning as a society. So, you know, we're looking at, let's just say capitalism, for example. Most people don't know that there are two versions of capitalism and one version of something else that that's called capitalism but isn't. And most people just, you know, lump all of those things together. And so there are a lot of people in society that are viciously, fiercely anticapitalism. *David* [00:50:56] Well, when I ask those people to tell me their version of capitalism, what they inevitably describe is what I and others who study this call sociopathic capitalism, the sociopathic version of capitalism, where I manipulate you into buying what you don't need at a price you can't afford. And I'll manipulate you so well that I'll convince you that doing that makes you happy. That's sociopathic capitalism. Or I'll make profits at the expense of killing off the environment. That's sociopathic capitalism. When I ask people who are anticapitalist what they, how they define capitalism, they invariably define sociopathic capitalism. They have no idea that there's such a thing as healthy capitalism or collaborative capitalism, the way that you and I know about where we're creating win wins. And then there's a third group that defines capitalism in a way that has nothing to do with capitalism. They're defining a completely different economic system that I call debtism, which is borrowing against an uncertain future in order to prop up the illusion of a lifestyle in the present. There's nothing about capitalism that has anything to do with that. That's a completely different economic system. It has nothing to do with capitalism. So if we don't sit down and really look at what our structures really are, what is our economy based on? Well, we have an economy just to finish up this little strand. *David* [00:52:30] We have an economy that's based on an assumption that perpetual growth is good. *David* [00:52:41] And most people just buy it. They buy it as an economic assumption. That's an example of a belief system that has an assumption that's neither verifiable nor and verifiable. It's neither Chern or false. That perpetual growth is good. What we have to have the courage to look at is what are the costs of perpetual growth? What are the prices of perpetual growth? And is there a way to continue to grow simply because evolution is part of our makeup? But to not make growth the boss of us. What about the notion of enough Nisse? What about the notion of sustainability and looking at growth in that in those as frames of reference? *David* [00:53:25] So unless until we find the courage to say we have to evaluate, reevaluate what patriotism is, what the American dream is, and if we're in the United States or what the dream of our country is or elsewhere, what economics looks like, what happiness looks like. What growth looks like, what alignment with being stewards of a planet looks like until we have the courage to sit down and ask these kinds of questions without getting into polarized, divisive arm wrestling matches over ideological addiction. We will continue to devolve into the the opposite of utopian future. Well, it's it's a dystopian future that we are actually co creating right now. And yet, at the same time, everyone says, well, we don't want a dystopian future, but no, no, we're not going to look at our basic assumptions. That's nuts thinking. That's insane. That is cultural opposite of mental health as a culture. *Ari* [00:54:30] You know, I like I like that you you put it that way because in a lot of a lot of people I've talked to have issues sometimes just saying it like it is, you know. And the truth is, is that if you're not saying something as it is matter of factly, then you're doing a disservice to the situation at hand, you know? And so to say something like that's insane thinking is going to cause people to say, I'm thinking that way and I'm not insane. Right. Therefore, you must be insane for saying exactly there to be insane. *Ari* [00:55:16] Thank you so much for listening to part one of this interview. Stay tuned for the next episode when we resume this conversation right from where we left off. *Ari* [00:55:26] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. *Ari* [00:55:33] If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow Acom and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. *Ari* [00:55:51] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.
And today we have David Gruder, Dr. David Gruder. In fact, he is a twelve award winning integrative psychologist. He's president of the Integrity Culture Systems, which work focuses on what he calls self sovereignty, and that serves us all. He equips leaders, influencers and entrepreneurs who are called to repair and evolve the world in their own unique ways with inner, outer and spiritual skills to expand their positive impact. And a super change Catalyst's without sacrificing their lightheartedness, health, financial well-being or cherished personal and work relationships. *Episode Highlights* *David* [00:02:51] This one year it was it was 1960 at the latest. I might have been fifty nine, but I think it was 60. The New Year's card was a UNICEF card and it simply said the greater peace will only come after the smaller peace we make with each other. And even at six years old, those words went just straight into the core of my being turned out to really have a major hand in crafting the calling that I came to understand that I was here in this world to fulfill. *Ari* [00:03:28] That is awesome. You know what? If you're going to express one of the challenges that you've had in getting this message across with them, the system has, as we have it, what would be kind of the biggest challenge that you've had to face? *David* [00:03:46] The biggest challenge that I've had to face is something that I for decades have referred to as rightness addiction and among colleagues in the psychology profession. I use a tongue in cheek term, a fake, a fake diagnosis I call a paradigm attachment disorder. And so people who are right about how wrong everyone else is, they're unteachable and they're in that kind of state of of arrogance. *David* [00:06:28] So I decided I was here as punishment. And what I was able to offer to all that I was able to offer in that moment was the willingness to consider the possibility that maybe I was wrong and that little tiny bit of willingness was enough to crack the door open to what ultimately over time resulted in my finally outgrowing that rightness addiction of mine. And that story seems to impact the people who are teachable. *David* [00:11:17] Challenging people to to recognize that there are two forms of love. One is nurturance and the other is challenge. And that nurturing love, if it is out of context with challenging love, if it's only nurturance, it becomes self-indulgence that teaches entitlement. When challenging is without nurturance, it becomes shaming and abusive and coercive. We we must have both. And so that would be my first first recommendation is to practice that. My second recommendation is to practice remembering that people adopt positions and attitudes and defensiveness. For really good reasons, that the origins of their stuffiness, of their blindness, of their rigidity, of their attacking, of whatever they're doing, have have really good reasons behind them. That doesn't mean that the behavior is justifiable. But the origin of empathy, the origin of compassion is understanding that when people are relating to me in ways that I would prefer that they not or relating to others in those were ways that they're operating from their wounds. You know, people live their lives at the level of their wombs, not their wishes. So that would be the second thing. And the third thing would be the humility of teach ability, the humility that says I know that I am particularly focused on and have some wisdom to share about slices of a larger picture. But I don't see the entire larger picture. No one else does. And I really want to see parts of the larger picture that other people are more attuned to than I am. So that together we can discover what the whole picture looks like. *Ari* [00:13:59] Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. And I'm going to have you back on so that we can have a longer conversation and talk about some of the myriad of things that that you and I have had conversations about in the past when we've been face to face, able to to touch, you know, touch and see each other. *Resources and Links* * *https://drgruder.com* * *https://drgruder.com/academy* * *https://CreateANewTomorrow.com* * *https://www.facebook.com/arigronich* *Full Transcription* *Ari&David1.mp3* *Ari* [00:00:01] Hass it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. *Ari* [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast. *Ari* [00:01:03] And welcome back to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich. *Ari* [00:01:09] And today with me, I have David Gruder, Dr. David Gruder. In fact, he is a twelve award winning integrative psychologist. He's president of the Integrity Culture Systems, which work focuses on what he calls self sovereignty, and that serves us all. *Ari* [00:01:27] He equips leaders, influencers and entrepreneurs who are called to repair and evolve the world in their own unique ways with inner, outer and spiritual skills to expand their positive impact. *Ari* [00:01:40] And a super change Catalyst's without sacrificing their lightheartedness, health, financial well-being or cherished personal and work relationships. He is amazing. I've known this man for about a decade or so and I have experienced some amazing things. I call him the gurus, guru or the mentor, his mentor, because some of his clients have included some of the most influential leaders that we have. Welcome, David. I'd like to hear from you a little bit. Just tell what got you started in this field. *David* [00:02:17] Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you for that kind introduction. And what got me in this field. I can go back into childhood around what got me into this field. I. Oh, my gosh. So many so many stories I could select from. But the one that I'll I'll keep an eye on for now is when I was right bout six years old and my family received a New Year's card. *David* [00:02:51] This one year it was it was 1960 at the latest. I might have been fifty nine, but I think it was 60. The New Year's card was a UNICEF card and it simply said the greater peace will only come after the smaller peace we make with each other. And even at six years old, those words went just straight into the core of my being turned out to really have a major hand in crafting the calling that I came to understand that I was here in this world to fulfill. *Ari* [00:03:28] That is awesome. You know what? If you're going to express one of the challenges that you've had in getting this message across with them, the system has, as we have it, what would be kind of the biggest challenge that you've had to face? *David* [00:03:46] The biggest challenge that I've had to face is something that I for decades have referred to as rightness addiction and among colleagues in the psychology profession. I use a tongue in cheek term, a fake, a fake diagnosis I call a paradigm attachment disorder. And so people who are right about how wrong everyone else is, they're unteachable and they're in that kind of state of of arrogance. *David* [00:04:20] That to me, is is the single biggest challenge. Probably the second biggest challenge is, is lack of self responsibility. OK. *Ari* [00:04:29] So how have you been able to overcome that with some of your clients? Because I know that you've probably had a number of clients who have had that syndrome. And I'm absolutely certain that in some cases you've been able to help overcome that particular addiction. So what are some of the skills that you used or tools that you've used in order to help people get over that? *David* [00:04:56] Right. *David* [00:04:57] Well, two parts to answering your question briefly, one. One part is that I don't try to make the unteachable see the light. So I. And that ties into the second part, which is I'm vetting people's teach ability to see whether it's a right match for me to assist them. I, I will often tell a story that kind of blows the untouchability piece out of the water if it is capable of being blown out of the water. And that goes to when I was thirty five years old in nineteen eighty nine, I was. Working with I was a client to someone who was doing some some healing work on me, and she turned to me one day and she said about a piece of programing that I was very wedded to. I was in rightness addiction about, which was that I was here on Earth as punishment. And she turned to me and she said, what is it going to take for you to outgrow that crazy belief of yours? *David* [00:06:11] And I I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles at that point in my life for the first 35 years of my life that I was here on Earth as punishment and punishment for what I didn't know. But I know I didn't want to be here. *David* [00:06:28] So I decided I was here as punishment. And what I was able to offer to all that I was able to offer in that moment was the willingness to consider the possibility that maybe I was wrong and that little tiny bit of willingness was enough to crack the door open to what ultimately over time resulted in my finally outgrowing that rightness addiction of mine. And that story seems to impact the people who are teachable. *Ari* [00:07:06] You know that that is a great story. *Ari* [00:07:08] I've I, I have this thing, you know, that I call nuanced thinking. I don't know if that's an actual term, but I call it nuanced thinking. And what I feel like, especially this day and age, is that so many people are so right about whatever their position is and they lack nuanced thinking, the ability to see things in little bits and pieces so that they can assess, OK. Is this particular thing right or wrong based on nuanced thinking versus based on my philosophy or my belief in the world? And we you know, we're seeing this all over the place in this new world that's been created in the last four or five months. And and it's really difficult. You know, people are becoming really intolerant of nuanced thinking, not just not knowing what it is, but really intolerant of it. How do you suggest that we kind of get over ourselves so that we can look at reality and say and start developing this nuanced thought pattern? *David* [00:08:26] Mm hmm. Yeah, well, I like your term nuanced thinking. I am regularly attacked for nuanced thinking. And so what do I recommend? I recommend two things. The first is I recommend lightheartedness, because I know that when people attack me for what you're wonderfully calling nuanced thinking, I know that what they're really doing is expressing that I've scared them, that my thinking is scaring them. And it's really hard for me to be angry, judgmental and and punitive towards someone that I recognize is scared. It's really easy for me to to be those things with someone who I'm telling myself a story that they're attacking me. So lightheartedness is one piece. The other piece that I think is really important is what I call tensions, competence, tensions, literacy, which is the ability to sit in the ambiguity of of a point of view that is not either or thinking, but as both. And that looks at how to. How do we integrate the core concerns and core intentions, the noble concerns and noble intentions underneath people's positions rather than get locked into an arm wrestling match match at best, and a world war psychologically at worst, when we get into an argument over surface positions, surface positions or garbage. What's fueling them at the level of of noble concerns and intentions is where the gold is. *Ari* [00:10:12] That seems a little bit like, you know, taking into consideration Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Right. And saying, OK, so what is behind the behind the need that's being expressed right now? Is that does that. Am I accurate? And in that assessments are on. *David* [00:10:28] Spot on. *Ari* [00:10:29] OK. *Ari* [00:10:30] So if we were going to offer the audience three and I ask this of every guest at the end of an interview with like three actionable. *Ari* [00:10:41] Steps that somebody can take today, tomorrow in order to shift their world, activate their vision for a better world and create a new tomorrow, what would those three actionable items be, in your point of view and your perspective? *David* [00:11:02] So if I had to had to break them down or divide them down two to only three. I would start with with. *David* [00:11:17] Challenging people to to recognize that there are two forms of love. One is nurturance and the other is challenge. And that nurturing love, if it is out of context with challenging love, if it's only nurturance, it becomes self-indulgence that teaches entitlement. When challenging is without nurturance, it becomes shaming and abusive and coercive. We we must have both. And so that would be my first first recommendation is to practice that. My second recommendation is to practice remembering that people adopt positions and attitudes and defensiveness. For really good reasons, that the origins of their stuffiness, of their blindness, of their rigidity, of their attacking, of whatever they're doing, have have really good reasons behind them. That doesn't mean that the behavior is justifiable. But the origin of empathy, the origin of compassion is understanding that when people are relating to me in ways that I would prefer that they not or relating to others in those were ways that they're operating from their wounds. You know, people live their lives at the level of their wombs, not their wishes. So that would be the second thing. And the third thing would be the humility of teach ability, the humility that says I know that I am particularly focused on and have some wisdom to share about slices of a larger picture. But I don't see the entire larger picture. No one else does. And I really want to see parts of the larger picture that other people are more attuned to than I am. So that together we can discover what the whole picture looks like. *Ari* [00:13:18] You know that that's a really good point. And to me, I call that tribal living or teamwork. You know, when when you can adopt a perspective that other people have something to contribute to you as much as you have something to contribute to them. And when we come together, we can really create something amazing and magical. *Ari* [00:13:40] So, David, how could people get a hold of you if they're interested in learning more about you and what you have to offer? *David* [00:13:48] Well, probably the single best place to look is my main Web site, which is Dr. Gruder dot com. *David* [00:13:54] That's drgruder.com. *Ari* [00:13:59] Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. And I'm going to have you back on so that we can have a longer conversation and talk about some of the myriad of things that that you and I have had conversations about in the past when we've been face to face, able to to touch, you know, touch and see each other. *Ari* [00:14:20] Yeah, I'm looking forward to having more conversations. *Ari* [00:14:24] And, you know, this is the kind of information that I want my I want the listeners to to really have is how can we change the world? How can we create a new tomorrow without some of these skills that you're talking about? *Ari* [00:14:41] And and it's very beneficial, I think, to doing so. *Ari* [00:14:46] So we're gonna have another conversation. *Ari* [00:14:48] In the meantime, this has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow, Activating Your Vision for a Better World. And I am your host, Ari Gronich. Thank you so much for being here, David. And have a healthy day. *David* [00:15:01] And you as well. *Ari* [00:15:03] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, createanewtomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. And look forward to seeing you take the lead. And joining our private paid mastermind community. *Ari* [00:15:34] Until then, see you on the next episode.
Pastor Kathleen welcomes Dr. David Gruder to talk about effective ways to minister in times of stress and the impact of stress on those in ministry.
Pastor Kathleen welcomes Dr. David Gruder to talk about effective ways to minister in times of stress and the impact of stress on those in ministry.
Shift Your Money Relationship: Finding Your Money Leaks with Chella Diaz Chella Diaz knew at a very young age how to manage money, at 9 years old she would go to the Farmer's market and knew the vendors that had the best product at the lowest price. She purchased her car at 17 and her first home at 23. Chella was married for 17 years and has two sons. For over 15 years, Chella has been on her spiritual journey. Chella has been hosting workshops to empower people to master their money skills. Her simple approach to creating a spending plan that will serve you today and for many years to come will allow you to reach your financial goals with joy and grace. Chella has worked with many coaches and mentors and created a program that meets each client where they are and provides them with the tools they need to unpack their emotional baggage around money. Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: It's 2pm on the Eastern Coast time zone. We are hosting The Nonprofit Exchange yet again. Every week, it's special. We have a guest who shares some really good stuff. We are talking about money today, but it will be different. It's one of those things everyone talks about. *Sponsored by EZCard* My guest today is Chella Diaz. Long-time friend, but we finally connected, and I understand why she needed to be on this show and tell you things that she knows. Chella, tell people a little bit about yourself and why you're doing this thing that you're doing. Chella Diaz: It would be my pleasure. It's an honor to be here. It's all about timing. We have known each other for several years, and I'm glad we're here. The timing is absolutely prefect. I have been good with money since I was nine. I was just one of those little interesting kids. I purchased my first car when I was 17 and my first house when I was 23. Before some of you start jumping, I have been speaking for a long time. My dad was a baker, and my mom was a housewife. Some of you may think I got lots of help. I did, but not financial. When I went to purchase my first house, I was short $1,600. My dad did lend me the money at that point in time, but up until then, it was just one of those things that made sense. I have two amazing boys, young men now. I spent many years in the corporate world. I was a real estate underwriter. Along with my being good with money, I got the opportunity to review over 20,000 real estate loans. I got to see this black and white stuff. This is me reviewing tax returns and seeing how the wealthy save their money and the folks that don't have money. I saw a pattern. After my divorce, and after the company I worked for shut down, I knew that I didn't want to go back to that. I knew there was something bigger I wanted to do. That was when I published my first book Money Bootcamp. My idea was to empower high school and college students. That was when my business idea began. The first business idea doesn't always take off. Then I was asked to speak at various women's groups. For me, that was when the light went on. Watching and teaching women not only how to manage money but also how to set themselves apart so they always have enough money to do what they want to do, and watching the lights go on. I do work with some men, but my main audience is women and high school students and college students. To me, I feel that this is my way of giving back. This is my mission. I get to have so much fun doing it. People always say, “Find something that you like, and you will never work a day in my life.” I feel very fortunate because that is what I am doing right now: having an amazing time. Hugh: Yeah, you gotta have fun. I am still doing what I do in my senior years and enjoying it more than ever before. There is a lot more to do and more to learn. My area is leadership and organizational development. It's a big area. Money is another big area. We start out in the nonprofit world with this word “nonprofit.” We immediately set the tone that is negative. We have profitability. It's not profit in the sense of a business where we look out for our shareholders and have this big salary for the top person. It's a for-purpose enterprise, where we are doing charitable work, but watching money. We have this negative thing about money from the start. When we minimize things and we cut pennies, we are really hurting ourselves in terms of how we manage money. We're in an era where women leaders are stepping up. This is a good time for you to talk about how women bring unique skills to the marketplace as entrepreneurs running a social enterprise or business. My wife is a clergy in the Methodist church. There are new opportunities for women to bring fresh perspectives and ideas. Let's talk about how we see money. What are the biggest problems in how people think about money? Chella: I believe it goes back to when we are five years old, and we begin to hear, “We can't afford it. You have to work hard for your money. Money does not grow on trees.” These are three of the most popular phrases I come across. When we think about that story we hear, how it travels and grows with us, so that we can't afford it. Now we are here in a purpose, where we want to help people, but we are still having this, “I can't afford it. You have to struggle for money.” That interferes with our mission and purpose. It prevents us from asking, going after, and showing up. Whether we are working on our passion project, it doesn't matter. We tend not to show up for our business. We tend not to share. Most importantly, we do not ask for what we need. Hugh: In the case of nonprofits, we are sharing our vision and our mission and the impact that we're having on people's lives. In a way, we're asking, but we're inviting people to participate in that work. We start these habits. If I hear you right, we have been spoonfed these from the beginning. We were told things about leadership that don't work, and we have been told things about money that don't help us at all. What is the antidote to this? Chella: It's going and identifying what that story was and connecting to how that is currently affecting your financial picture. It sounds simplistic, but every single one of my clients who has done this- Once you have identified and shed some light on this, then you are no longer subject to that story. It's giving a voice. Hugh: Don't give the voice to the story. It's like we download software in our computer, but we have to learn how to use it correctly. We only use the templates. We have Ryad here from Algeria, part of Bob Hopkin's class in Dallas. He has a special interest in inspiring young leaders to think about philanthropy in a new way. To be a philanthropist, we don't need to be afraid of money. Philanthropy is not all about the money. We do make financial contributions. As we welcome new people into the Methodist church, we say to participate with your time, talent, and money. There is a triple invitation, but there is an opportunity for young people to understand. I had Ivan Misner on the show last week. The motto for BNI is Givers Gain. It's a different mindset. How do we get an awareness of some of these negative things we have been taught? You are in who we have been taught. How do we have an awareness to gain a mindset? Chella: By simply beginning to write. As we are sitting here, I am a huge note-taker. As you are saying wisdoms, write down. Sit down for 10 minutes, for seven days, silent, and think about those money conversations you listened to. That will bring them up to awareness. Everybody has a conversation. There are a few of you out there who are not going to have it because adults do not talk about money. Go back. 10 minutes. Seven days. I would love to hear from you what your feedback is. These things, the minute you begin to give the mind a task, it will do it for you. But if you don't remember, that is also very telling because that means as a little child, what stories did you make up about the fact that adults were not talking about money? That is also very powerful. You make up a story as a kid as to what that meant. I wish I was making this up. As an adult, it's possible you are in a relationship, and you don't talk about money. But you have this white elephant in the room that nobody is talking about. Not hearing a conversation is also incredibly telling. What did that little child make up as a story? Hugh: We know that we give energy to what we think about. If you think about debt, we are in a panic time. The media wants to scare us so that we read their newspaper or watch their show. We don't need to buy into these narratives that have penalized us. Dan Pallotta has this keynote where he talks about the way we think about charity is dead wrong. Nonprofit is a good starting point. It's a bad word; it's a lie. But it's the word we know. It's a genre of operating. It's a tax-exempt business. Part of the headline here is, “Money Leaks.” What do you mean? Do you carry it in a bucket, and it leaks out? Chella: I am going to make that a picture. As we go through life, and we get services, and we don't realize that some of these, are we using them? The most traditional one would be a membership to the gym and we don't use it. There are so many other things that we go out and purchase, and we don't use. Those are the money leaks. Those are the ones. But also, how are you choosing to spend your money? This is the $100,000 question. If you are able to sit down and track your finances for 30 days, whether you go back and do it or start fresh from here moving forward, if you are able to track any time you spend over a dollar on a notepad or a Word document or an app, at the end of the four weeks, you are going to divide that list into how much you spend on wants and how much on needs. I prefer to do it every week, so it doesn't seem like such an overwhelming task. For four weeks, how much did you spend on wants versus needs? At the end of the four weeks, you will find your money leaks. One of my favorite examples is a young lady was spending $750 a month for lunch. You don't realize how much you're spending. You go to the bank and get the money. You're on automatic pilot. You don't realize where the money is going. By taking the time to do this one task for four weeks, whether it's lunch or dinner or snacks- One of my clients, $125 in snacks. He would stop at the corner store before getting to work to pick up snacks. $125 for snacks? Imagine what you could do with $125 a month extra. By doing this one task, you are going to find where your money leaks are. I don't believe in giving up everything. After you find the money leaks, my lunch person, she decided to put away $500 toward a down payment of a house, but she still went out to lunch. She still had $250 to work with for lunch. You will find what other choices you can make with your money. How are you choosing to spend your money? That's where the magic happens, folks. Hugh: You start buying a $5 latte every day. That adds up to a lot of money. That is a lot of money over the terms of a week, a year. You add all those wants up, not needs. You can get an app like Mint, which shows you every day where your money went. It's free. Is something like that helpful? Chella: Absolutely. It's doing the work for you. The only thing with some of those apps. If you are able to track everything, fabulous. Sometimes you may not be able to track stopping at the store and picking up flowers. When you pay with cash, that is where Mint may not be great. But it is a great start. I like Mint. Hugh: I try to do everything on a credit card. I don't care what the interest rate is. A high interest rate encourages me to pay it off. To me, the interest rate, the higher the better. I can't pay interest, so it encourages me to pay the thing off. My particular card gives me a summary by category in addition to the Mint, and it also gives me hotel points. I go to a lot of hotels I don't pay any money for. There is a liability in a credit card where you just use credit without the cash to pay it at the end of the month. There is an accountability process here. If you are struggling to make ends meet, you have to be aware of your own spending. We go out and have drinks with friends, and we spend money. We don't have to do all that. We can drink water and have a good time and have a wine at home. Pay for a bottle instead of one glass at a restaurant. Or give it up all together. How do you stay on track? Do you have an accountability partner idea? Maybe we encourage each other. Chella: Hugh just brought up a big idea. If you know anybody who has credit cards, ask them to add up three months' worth of interest. How much did they pay in three months? When you see that, let's say it's $500 for three months. That is going to be $2,000 for the year. This is the game-changer. When you start thinking not only am I making the credit card company rich, but what could I be doing with $2,000 at the end of the year? Imagine what that looks like in your bank account. I find that when people do this task, they are able to go out and work maybe a little bit harder for the short term to pay off that debt, be it selling something or doing something extra so that money can flow into their account. The accountability is one of my favorite things to do. I still have two accountability partners. I suggest they cannot be a spouse or significant other. This is something you're working on yourself first. Then you can come together. It's not that you can't tell them what you're doing. Once upon a time, purchasing personal development courses was a weakness for me. Any time I saw it on TV or an event, any time I went to spend over $100, I needed to call my accountability partner and share that I wanted to buy this thing I could not live without. You tell each other what your goals are, what your weaknesses are, and then you call each other during that time. After I started talking about it, justifying why I needed to buy this, it was so silly. I really didn't need it. An accountability partner helps you to stay on track on whatever financial goals you are. It helps you stay away from the shiny objects, and they are there to celebrate any time you achieve a milestone. Hugh: These are all good personal growth habits. I wanted you on the show because we all bring our good and bad habits into the workplace. Many of our audience has a vision for changing people's lives through a nonprofit they founded; sometimes they run it, or they get other people to run it. We want to identify these because the personal problems become systemic problems and a problem for the organization. In the nonprofit world, we are required to have a board of directors, and they oversee the money part. The same issues that you just talked about do exist in organizations. I have seen organizations who are broke, but there is no discipline or system or accountability or awareness of living beyond our means. We don't have the money coming in, but we have to do these programs because they are compelling. You have to take care of home first. How do leaders bring these shortcomings into the business? How does that hurt everybody? Chella: That's why I think you have to start at home. Find your money leaks, fix them. Once you start to do that, what happens is you begin to see other opportunities, whether it's the saving $500 a month. Other opportunities begin to present themselves. Debt creates overwhelm and stress. When you are stressed and have to think about how you make those payments, there is that “Another payment, I have to write out ten checks.” I know people don't do that anymore. Automatic pay, whatever that is. I need to pay ten bills versus three bills. That takes stress. When you are able to get that under control at home, those skillsets will transfer to your organization. You are able to come up with different ideas for a fundraiser. You are able to share about your project to that person you haven't thought about sharing. It opens up more space for you to be able to be more productive and bring in more money to your nonprofit, or what I call a passion project. Hugh: Your passion project. What is your passion project? Chella: My passion project is to do workshops for high school students and college students. It's interesting because I hear a lot from them about how they don't care about the money, but they want to make a difference. I say, “In order to make a difference, you need the money.” Hugh: Ryad, as a young person facing the life ahead, does this stimulate any questions for you, or do you want to comment on what you're hearing? Ryad Benabdelkader: Yes. By the way, I like the use of the credit card. Where I live, it's not used very much. People love cash. They never use a credit card. Starting with my family and my parents, they just use cash in Algeria. But I like the idea of the credit card because you have to think about how to use the money twice. You won't just buy it with cash. Each time my parents are just spending, spending, spending. If it was with a credit card, it would be better, and they know where to spend the money. I love the idea of credit cards. I hope we will apply it one day. Hugh: You're in Algeria. Ryad: Yes. Hugh: How do you pay for things? Physical cash or digital payments. Ryad: Physical cash. Hugh: I understand you were admitted to a college in France, so you will be going to France. How will this kind of information help you think about managing your expenses in college? Ryad: I love the idea of credit cards because like this, I will manage and optimize how and where to spend the money without carrying cash. I would just be buying this and this. With a credit card, I will only buy things I need with limits. Each time you see the card, you think about money. Hugh: Before I go to Professor Hopkins, let's talk about philanthropy. In order to be a philanthropist, you want to manage your time because we give time and talent, but we also give money. Why do you think it's important to manage our own finances? Why do you think it's important to have our house in order to be a better philanthropist? I will give you some time to think about it. Bob, what kinds of questions do you have today? Bob Hopkins: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I hate this topic. I hate this topic for me personally. I hate the words, “I can't afford it.” In respect to you, I think your topic and what you tell the students is what they need because people need to manage money. I have never been able to do that unfortunately. Because of my elderly age, what you see on the horse is what I look like today. I am 50 years older than that person on that horse. I try to teach students to think positively instead of thinking, “I can't have, and I don't have.” I think that God gives us everything we need, and you just have to have a positive attitude about it. Unfortunately, I don't manage money very well. For some reason, there always seems to be money when I need it. But I do understand, and it's a good thing I don't have children. I was thinking of you when you said, “What did I think of money when I was five years old?” I could always have what I needed. When I became an adult, my parents divorced, and I think one reason that happened is because of money. It's not been one of my best topics. Hugh: Let me introduce you to my friend Chella. Bob is a colleague in Texas. Sandy, do you have any questions here? Sandy Birkenmaier: My parents didn't have a whole lot of money when I was growing up. When I was 10, they bought their first brand new car. They had no credit whatsoever because they'd always paid cash for everything. I learned pretty early that it was important to have a credit record at least. My dad died when I was 13, and we had even less money. I never had money when I was growing up unless there was something special I needed to buy. I had to justify then why it was that I needed money. I raised my kids that you do need to establish a credit record, but you need to not be using a credit card unless you are able to pay that credit card off. I pretty much managed to do that through adulthood. There have been times where things have gotten rough, and the credit cards have stacked up, but I got them paid off as quickly as possible. I think I have a pretty good relationship with money. Hugh: Great. Sandy, thank you. Chella, that triggered a couple of interesting topics. Thank you for allowing me to have you comment. When you start an enterprise and apply for a credit card, they will check your personal credit. You are the founder of this and want to apply for a credit card. This is one area that is important for having your act together. Do you want to comment on that? Bob's relationship with money, he's a mover and shaker. He is an energy field. I am sure in his career with nonprofits, he has seen a challenge with money. It's an attitude that comes from the top. Those are two areas for you to bounce off of. Chella: Actually, Hugh, you mentioned earlier. When it comes to money and credit, people think about it as a negative thing. But you are proof that that's not the case. You are able to get things for free. It's about learning how to use the system. I have a friend who got a 32-inch flat-screen TV for free. She was a business owner, and she charged a lot, and she paid a lot. She accumulated so many points. That's the thing about credit cards. We can use them to our advantage. We can use them just like Sandy, thank you for sharing, and Bob. We are going to come back to you. But you can use these credit cards to your advantage. They don't have to be the bad word. This is a tool you can use to get free stuff. I personally have gotten gift cards. You can give them away for gifts. It can definitely work to your advantage. Know that the magic is you only need three types of credit that is being reported. All you need is three lines in order to build a credit score. Hugh: Three lines? Three credit cards? Chella: It could be a credit card. A car loan. Anything that reports. It cannot be paying rent. That is not reported. Utility bills, those are not reported. Those do not count. Three, be it two credit cards, a car loan. Three of them in order to build credit. That's it. Hugh: It's all back to what you were talking about. It's a matter of discipline or attitude and an awareness. I see a lot of people start a business or nonprofit, and they say, “We will make money and do these things.” How important is it to put a budget line item on there to mark our discipline for spending? Chella: I love that. I don't like to use the b-word. The budget. If we start thinking about, “This is how I am creating a spending plan” instead. It sounds softer and not quite so rigid. But if you create a spending plan, then you have choice. You are spending this. This is how much we allocated for this and that. Create a spending plan, and stick to it. Sometimes, we want to do, and we want to serve. But if we don't have the money coming in, it's going to stop sooner or later. There is only so much you can do. Right now, I do know quite a few nonprofits where the money is just not coming in, and they may need to shut down. Hugh: It's a challenge for the whole sector. Small businesses, churches, restaurants, nonprofits: we are challenged to how we do things. My wife and I have gone through a personal discipline of looking at expenses, and we spend a lot less than we used to. We eat really well, and we do pretty much anything we want to do, but we stay under budget every single month. Even though I have a number of credit cards, and a lot of credit lines, we primarily use one, so I don't have to remember to pay the others. Everything comes on the 1st of the month, so there is a ritual in paying it all. 100% on-time payments, no interest charges. It's been a good discipline that has energized us, and we have more money to support the charities we want to support. It feels good to be able to give some to other people. When you build your budget, let's talk about the giving part of this. Part of philanthropy is money. Part of it is showing up. You talked about showing up earlier. It's not just physically present, but it's emotionally present. Where does giving come into our financial system? Chella: Giving should be up here with paying yourself, giving, then meeting your obligations, then down the line should be your wants. Not to deprive yourself. But I am saying if you put it in that order, I guarantee you that you will always have money for everything. It just shows up. The money always showed up for Bob. I agree with you. I think that God gives you all that you need. I am delighted, and I believe in thinking positive. Where I see the struggle is we want to think positive, and your students are saying that. It's the monkey chatter behind the scenes from the money conversations we heard as children. We have that conflict. It's about identifying it so that it's minimized. I haven't been able to make it go away entirely, but it is minimized, so the voice is softer and not as loud. It's about making the voice softer. Hugh: That annoying voice that lies to us. A while back, we had Dr. David Gruder talking about the psychologist's view of money shadow. Say more about how those negative scripts hurt us. Chella: Because we believe them, right? I'll share mine. My dad was a baker. He definitely shared that you have to work hard for your money. He did. He worked very hard. One time, he took two jobs. One paycheck went toward a down payment for the house. After we bought the house, he quit the job. So he did work hard for his money. He was incredibly successful and bought lots of great properties. I grew up that you have to work hard with money because my dad did physical work. He was a baker. When I did my very first paid speaking gig, I went through it. Here I am getting paid for something I love doing and for talking. I went through that psychology. It's about what that five-year-old identifies with, and how we carry that along with us. Which is why I think identifying it and releasing it is where the key comes in. You're no longer subject to it. Hugh: You started talking about the lies we hear about money. What were those? Chella: You have to work hard. You have to struggle. Money does not grow on trees. And we can't afford it. Those are the ones that keep coming up, no matter what income you're in. We go back to whatever those adults have. The key here is that this is something- Think of it as a gift. These stories we have been told are a gift. Sometimes I think it comes from good intention. The adults want to prepare us for the future. They want to set us up for success. The stories they are giving you are a gift. Now give them back. It was a gift that you don't have to take. It's okay to give the gift back. Hugh: Wow. I was formulating another question, but I got into what you were talking about. I can't afford it. That's code for, “I don't like it,” or “I don't understand what you're asking me.” Isn't it? Chella: it is. It also could be simply that the adults didn't understand. We go back to the adults. We go back. Even if you now look at the grocery store and see a mom and kids, if you hear the mom saying, “No, we can't afford it,” what is that child's interpretation of money? It's not about the fact you said you can't afford it, because maybe you can't, or you don't want to. Telling them you can't afford it is about the interpretation the kid is walking away with. Hugh: You're choosing to spend money on something else. It ceases to be a reason and becomes an excuse. There is no reason to pay for anything you want. Back to your list of wants and needs. Do you do this on a monthly basis, a weekly basis, in hindsight or forecast? Chella: I like the moving forward because you become more aware. We're sure nothing slipped through the cracks. Keep track of your money for seven days. Any time you spend a dollar, you write it down. I like to divide the seven days into wants and needs. That's it. I don't analyze it or judge it. We just do a black and white list. You do this for four weeks. You will find some of the things that you are ready to let go from that list. What are some of the things, like my lunch person? Along with going out for lunch, she is putting $500 toward a down payment of a house, which was important to her. Once you find something you can replace it with, I take it Bob likes horses. Can we buy new toys for the horse? Does that work? Once you are able to find where the money is going and you choose something else to do with it, that is where you begin to shift and accumulate to have money for those things. You're a perfect example, Hugh. You have a spending plan, but you are always able to do the things you want to do. It's about having the choice to do what we want to do. Hugh: A spending plan doesn't mean you can't do fun things. A whole lot of things don't cost money, or very little money. Sometimes the free things are healthier anyway. What I see often is, especially in early-stage organizations, we make bad decisions on spending. We put wants ahead of the needs, like hiring staff prematurely until we have enough money in the bank to pay for that person for at least a year. We get out ahead of it. We assume the product will sell. We assume the donors will donate. We will assume we will get grants. So we hire in preparation for that. That is a bad habit we bring over with our personal life. We bully our way through here. Really, we need to have a foundation of revenue becoming revenue until we can get an executive director or a funding specialist on our staff. It's good to get someone on staff who knows how to handle money. So it needs to be the right choice at the right stage, and we need to have a plan that can work, and an accounting system to track it. We can't keep it in our head. We have a lot of systems that interface with our credit cards and bank accounts. It's automatically kept up to date for us. It's a good era to manage that. We get a chunk of money. A donor writes us a large check. Whoopee. We can go to work. We can hire people and buy equipment and rent space, and we run out of money. We haven't looked at our forecast. A budget is a spending plan, but really what's our cash flow projection? In business, we call it a burn rate. You are spending money and not selling things enough to offset the cost of doing business. It's still a burn rate in the nonprofit world. We're not offsetting the old revenue with new revenue. We are spending the money without creating new money. There is a relationship to money that comes from our personal life, that brings in good discipline and running an organization. I am not perfect in all of this. I am not here saying I am the model; I am here to say we are all struggling and need to improve. Do you want to comment on any of that? Talk a little bit about that. After that piece, we have a relationship with money, but our relationships with people impact our cash as well. Chella: I could not have asked for a better set-up. That is why if you do the 30 days for your personal life and your business, you will know exactly what it takes to run your business on a monthly basis. When you get that $100,000 check, what if you are able to put away one to two years of monthly revenue on your business and spend the rest on projects? At least you know you're covered for however many months. We don't know when the next money will come in. That's magical. You know that you at least will be able to continue to do that work for the amount of time. The more money that comes in, the better. But cover that base first. It's a work in progress. Sometimes we will fall off track a little bit, and then you get back. But keeping track or finding out what it is you need on a monthly basis is magical because then you will always be prepared. It's the ideal situation. Also, that peace of mind will come with it. Prematurely hiring someone. What if you are able to ask them to volunteer five hours, ten hours a week? Then you will get to know each other, see each other's skillsets. When you are ready to hire them, they will be able to step in. It's that intern, if you will. Then you know if they are a fit for your company. Asking for that volunteer is a great way to help you until you can get the money ready, but also find out if they are a fit for your company. If not, you will spend a lot of time and money investing in something that may not work. A volunteer is a great way to help you, and do what you want to do, which is help. You want to give back. But you don't have to spend the money. Hugh: Yes. Relationships. We have mental capital, a product or service, and the work we do, and we want financial capital. But there is this relationship capital in between those. Chella: I want you to think about money and relationship the same way you would do a business partner, a donor, or whatever. How you're talking to that donor is the same way you should be talking to money. If you are telling money, “I don't have enough. You're never enough,” if that was a partner, and this is where the money relationship shifts. If you are in a relationship, because you are, we are in a relationship with money, whether we are readily able to admit it or not. Talk to money the same way you would talk about a potential donor. How you would treat that person is the same way. Treat the donor the same way as money and treat money the same way as the donor. This is a win-win for all. There is something for the donor to contribute to your organization. Think about money. Start dating money. Get to that point where you are ready to make a commitment and get married. Hugh: Find your money leaks. Develop a plan. Get an accountability partner. Don't bleed yourself dry. Don't deprive yourself of fun things. But be responsible. Your analogy with the person who was spending $750 and they cut it down to $250 on lunches, they can now save money for a house. In the world of nonprofits, we want to put away money to build an endowment fund. People do give to it specifically, but we can build it in more than one way. Having an endowment fund allows you to build interest that could pay for your operations expenses if it was large enough. That is a discipline for nonprofits. *Sponsored by EZCard* Chella, this has been useful stuff. This is not just theory, but applicable information. This is what we like to do: help leaders be better leaders. What closing thought would you like to leave people with? Chella: I truly encourage you to do the four-week challenge. It's just four weeks to finding your money leaks and get your money journey on track. Love to hear from you. It's been a pleasure and an honor to be here today. Every single person who has done this, their money conversation and relationship has shifted. Highly encourage you. It's only four weeks. Hugh: Only four weeks. Your life is a downer if you don't do it. Chella has been building her website. Chella Diaz, thank you for being our guest today on The Nonprofit Exchange. Chella: It's been an honor, thank you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Organizational impact is a result of effective leadership! The SynerVision Leadership Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium is a one-day intensive virtual event for you to learn the skills to stand up or grow your nonprofit, recruit the right board and volunteers, create a winning strategy, and attract donors to support your mission. This symposium is designed to equip nonprofit leaders and clergy to break through barriers in performance for themselves, boards, staff, and volunteers; and to attract the funding to support the fulfillment of the organization's mission. To register for this Virtual Symposium go HERE Read the Preview Conversation Dr. Thyonne Gordon: Well, I guess we can introduce ourselves, huh? I am Dr. Thyonne Gordon. I am here in sunny Los Angeles, California. I am your story strategist. I help people with curating and creating the best story of their life, their project, their idea, their business. As Hugh continues to pull me back into the nonprofit world, I help nonprofits to curate their story of great success. Hugh Ballou: You're so valuable to this sector. Let me introduce who's here. We're here to share with you. It's a preview session. Thank you for being here today. Today is a special edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. It's thoughts, ideas, encouragement, empowerment, learning, examples to learn from. It's people who have something to share. Everybody here has been a guest on previous episodes of the podcast. We'll have some more people joining us. These are presenters for the Nonprofit Reactivation Symposium that will happen on May 1. I wanted the presenters to give you their story about what they're going to share with you. Also, why did they want to show up? I am going to start with Dr. David Gruder. David, you've been with me doing this kind of stuff for a way long time, back since water. This is #27 of these live events. This one is the first one that is virtual, and it's very different. It was the Leadership Empowerment Symposium for years. You and I started noodling on the title. Share a little bit about what we talk about and why we named this a reactivation symposium. Dr. David Gruder: Right. Well, first of all, it's a pleasure to be here with you, Hugh, as always, and to be with these wonderful, esteemed colleagues who I so respect and appreciate and love. The changes that are going on in our society right now that have been brought to the forefront through the COVID-19 crisis are changes that have been under way for a while in a lower-key manner, that in a sense flew under the radar. Because of what's been magnified through the COVID-19 crisis, we really are in the process of establishing what's being called a new norm. Nonprofits are going to be dramatically impacted by this new norm. So what we at SynerVision Leadership Foundation are committed to doing is helping nonprofits stay ahead of that curve so that we craft the new norm together as the nonprofit world so that nonprofits can fill their proper place in the world in a more effective way in the new norm rather than be drowned out because of the craziness that is going on as the new norm emerges. Hugh: Craziness. Whoa. I love it. We were talking a little bit before we officially started. I had a technical glitch, and my Zoom disappeared off my computer. I am back. We were talking about being busier than ever. When somebody says, “Why do we need reactivation?” you are going to talk a little bit… Tell them about what you're talking about. David: The topic I am going to be speaking on is reenvisioning leader development in the new normal. The things that have been emerging during this COVID crisis really illuminate the necessity of, I don't want to be dramatic here too much, but pretty much an overhaul of the vision of what leadership is going to need to include that people were thinking of as optional before now. Now it's mandatory. I am going to be covering four key areas of new norm leadership and leader development in my talk. Hugh: We won't tell them exactly what that is yet. David: Ooh, it's a secret. You have to show up to find out. Hugh: It's a secret. Each of you have recorded a little promo that we have put out on the Internet and invited people to come. The latest one I got a few minutes ago was from Dr. Gordon. We have some California people here. David Gruder, you're way south, Spanish-speaking San Diego. Thyonne, you're a little north of there in Los Angeles. Talk a little bit about what you're talking about, and why. Thyonne: Yes, I'm Dr. Thyonne. I will be talking about shifting your crisis story through board leadership. I'll be speaking in regard to how boards and executive directors and organizations overall need to work together during the time of crisis more than ever. No matter what, board leaders and their executives should always be in mind step. But during a crisis, it's really important for the board to step up and take their leadership role and do it in a more advanced way than they have in the past. I'll be speaking about how board members can show up in that type of way. Hugh: We'll be talking more about that. This is the special edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. This particular event, we have a key sponsor, EZ-Card. *Sponsor message from EZ-Card* We have Greg Sanders today. Greg represents the EZ-Card company. It's his company. He founded it. But you're not just a tech guy, are you? Just a little bit about Greg. Why are you supporting the work of SynerVision Leadership Foundation? Greg Sanders: I just want to say what a privilege it is first of all to be here. I understand this is a relatively informal gathering, so I did not wear a suit and tie. I agree with Dr. Gruder. This time is a time of transition. So many people are learning new technical skills, supportive technologies, to enable them to conduct business and do face-to-face meetings in this type of venue as opposed to meeting at Starbucks and going to live venues. Not just businesspeople, but their customers. If I am going to do an estimate and put a roof on your house, I am not going to come to your house anymore. I am going to ask you to hop on your phone or computer. The normal person on the street is also developing all of these online skills. So to David's point about nonprofits, every nonprofit I'm aware of works with a skeleton crew. They are time-challenged and resource-challenged, and they probably don't have time to think about what Dr. Gruder is going to talk about, which is how to rest and reshape and reform. They are trying to survive. Coming on Friday is so valuable. What we're doing at EZ-Card is we are the supportive technology. I am not a major speaker. I will speak briefly about possibly using EZ-Card along with Zoom or other technologies which move your message forward in this particular environment. That is what EZ-Card is. I will be explaining the benefits of EZ-Card as a mobile app. When I think of a nonprofit, they have to get their message out. They have to raise money. They have to let their supporters know this is our valuable work we are doing day in and day out. Any video they can show where they are caring for children or at-risk populations, any way to get their message out there, and they can do that with EZ-Card on their phone. That is what we'll be doing, and we are happy to support the event itself. If you'd like to look at it and share it with people to get there on Friday, you just text LDR, which is an abbreviation for leadership, to 64600. Two things will happen. You will get a link to your phone. You click the link, and the EZ-Card opens. It could take you to the SynerVision website. It could take you to details about Friday's event. You can register. But it will also give Hugh and the leadership team your mobile number so they can send you text reminders about the event. Text LDR to 64600. We'd like to provide similar technology to any nonprofit if we can help you do what you do better and help you raise more money. Hugh: It's an amazing tool. I know David Gruder has one. The others of you who have seen it. Sherita just saw it for the first time. Bob Hopkins out there in Big D, Dallas, Texas. You're recording as you were wearing this ten-gallon hat. So passionate about philanthropy he even named his horse Philanthropy. Bob Hopkins: I did. I did, and I do. Hugh: It's this kid who said to his dad, “Your ten-gallon hat won't hold ten gallons; it only holds four quarts.” Tell us what you are going to talk about and why you want to talk about that. Bob: It changes every hour quite frankly. I just got off the television looking at the president of Brown University. By the way, universities are nonprofit organizations. Talking about how hundreds of thousands of colleges are going to stay afloat because they depend upon tuition, and lots of kids aren't going back to school at this time because they don't know what they're going to do, and they don't have jobs anymore. They won't be able to afford to go. I'm sure every board of directors of every university or college in the country is madly trying to figure it out. One of the people I invited to come on Friday as a student is Alfonse Brown. He's at a university in Florida, an African-American law university, the oldest one in the country. He has board meetings all day Friday and Saturday, trying to figure out what they are going to do in the fall. Not in the summer. We have already figured out the summer; we are doing Zoom, just like we're doing now. What are they going to do in the fall with those huge buildings, with billions of square feet? With students, I have 22-24 students in my classroom. We cannot handle six feet apart. If every classroom doesn't have 24-26, they will lose money. Thousands of colleges will have to close. Then I'm thinking about my students. My students have been introduced to the nonprofit sector in my class because I teach communications with a focus on nonprofit management. I'm thinking about them because what are they going to get out of it, and what message am I going to give them? I have a requirement that all my students come to this class on Friday. It's half of their final. Then they have to write a critique on what they experienced, what they got out of it as 50 points, and they have to write their eulogy for the other 50 points. After this semester, they will probably want to die anyway, so their eulogy might be appropriate. I don't know. I'm going to look at what you all are going to talk about, so I will try to fit in so I am not talking about the same thing. I listened to speaking about boards of directors as well as Thyonne. There are so many avenues of how to talk about boards of directors. How to get them, how to keep them, how many to get, what are their responsibilities, those kinds of things. I think, and you already messaged it to me right now, is how they will stay afloat. That's what boards of directors are going to want to know when they come to see us when we are talking about nonprofit management and organizations. How are we going to stay afloat? What is the new normal going to be? I think that changes every day, too. We are supposed to in Texas open up last Friday. I went to the bank just now. There was one man in there without a mask on. I went to the president sitting in the corner and said, “Is it a requirement to wear masks now?” He said, “Yes, it is, but we're not enforcing it. It's a $1,000 fine, and we're not enforcing it.” I said, “Why not? It's a rule and a law. If I have to do it, they have to do it because I am not being protected, but they are being protected from me.” I tell you every minute I find something different. Our lives are going to change not just from the board level, but from the people who come to participate with us. All of them won't be board members. They will be people who are not involved in the nonprofit sector as a living or in a vocation, but as maybe just a volunteer. Hugh: Bob and I met recently. My wife was going to Dallas for a conference at SMU. We were introduced by guests on my show who were the founders of Barefoot Winery. They accidentally founded a winery; it's a great story. We connected. Bob, you have a book in your hand there? Bob: Hugh, I'm so sorry you asked. This is my book. It's called Philanthropy Misunderstood. Is that appropriate for the time. I think it should be Management Misunderstood, Nonprofits Misunderstood, Our Planet Misunderstood. My next book will be called Philanthropy Understood. Hopefully in the next two years, we will figure that out. Hugh: Sherita and Thyonne will have some stories for you there. They have a massive amount of connections and nonprofits they have worked with. The new normal is you go into the bank with a mask on. It used to be when you walk into the bank with a mask on, they will be nervous. Now if you don't have a mask on, they're nervous. The new normal is opposite polarity. Bob: They are still nervous because they arrested two men and asked them to leave. Unfortunately, you people of color will understand this. These were two black men with two black masks on. The people behind the counter were uncomfortable with them and asked them to leave, not knowing if they had a billion dollars in the bank or whatever reason they were there. It didn't matter. We have a lot of challenges coming up. Hugh: Sherita, on that happy note, tell folks- Bob has been a lifelong champion of nonprofits. He has been a CFRE with the fundraising professionals. He is a wee bit older than me. Finally I am in a group with one person who is my senior. My sister Sherita out there, where are you now? Arkansas? Sherita Herring: I am in Hattieville, Arkansas, of all names, right? Bob: I know Hattieville. Sherita: The fact that I am even here in Hattieville. When I was a young girl, do you guys remember Petticoat Junction? I used to want to live there. I loved Betty Jo, Billie Jo, Bobbie Jo, Uncle Joe. I loved the pig Arnold. Most people did not realize how much I am a country girl. I am telling you that story because what I am going to be talking about on Friday is there are grants that exist even now that will allow you to live your most unbelievable dreams. I am living my dream. I am sitting here on 30 acres of land that has been passed down in my family for over 100 years. It's been almost 50 years since my great-grandfather passed away and anyone has lived here. It's not a cliché for me. I am living my best life right now in an RV with chickens and Guinea, and he is out there spraying. That's what I'll be talking about. Thank you for having me on with these other experts, Hugh. Hugh: We have Wil Coleman. He is a great musician out there in Raleigh, North Carolina. We will hopefully have Dr. Williams here in just a minute. Sherita: He is coming on now. Hugh: We also have a presenter who is not here, Bishop Ebony Kirkland. If you go to the landing page for the symposium at NonprofitLeadership.live, I am watching my phone. People are registering. It's exciting. We want to fill the house because there is so much important work to do. If you click on the pictures for these good-looking people, a video will pop up with an invitation as to what they are talking about in more detail and why you should come. This word “reactivation,” it's a mystery word for some of us because we are working as hard as we can. It's a new era. It's an important era. Bob has invited students. He is in the classroom again. He's worn a lot of hats. I gotta tell you, I have been in his class with his students. They come to our nonprofit leadership group on Thursdays. You are inspiring a new group of leaders, profound group of leaders coming up. There is a lot of untapped potential for people who might get overlooked. I remember, Bob, when I was 18, I had a chance to conduct when I was nothing but potential. Somebody like you believed in me. Somebody like you said, “Hugh, give it a go.” I was able to step up into a whole career. Let's go back to David Gruder for a minute. I want to ask any of you to shout out when you can. This is such an important occasion. Bob just talked about colleges who are a specific type of nonprofit. Big universities with big budgets and a lot of foundations and history are having challenging times. Imagine a small community organization that wants to feed people, clothe people, house people. They are working on a bare strings budget. David, what's important for our mindset? What's important for how to equip ourselves to rethink leadership and our work? David: Oh my. Well, okay. Short version is that we need to shift our, what's called in psychology, locus of control. Right now, in society, there is an external locus of control. What locus of control has to do with is how a person centers their ideas about where control lives. Right now, a lot of people are thinking that society and government and COVID-19 and external circumstances are the boss of them. That is a mindset that is a surefire recipe for victimization, powerlessness, and empty, unhelpful forms of rebellion. That has to shift into what in psychology is called an internal locus of control, where I'm the boss of the future I create. I'm the boss of my own stories that I tell myself and the emotions that I have and response to those stories and the words and actions that I say and do in response to the emotions I have about the stories I create. That is a skillset that is developable, and it is a crucial skillset, not only for leaders to embody, but for teams to be trained in how to do because without that, there will be no conscious, elevated, spiritual architecting of a new norm that is helpful to humanity rather than harmful to humanity. Hugh: David Gruder says things, and I say, “Gosh, I wish I would have put those words together like that.” He is a champion wordsmith. Anything else you want to share? Thyonne, I was so impressed by your short video. Of course, I was impressed by all of them, but yours is in mind because I got it most recently. It was passionate. You used to be part of a foundation that sent you out to do board capacity building. Why is it so important for us to learn ourselves as leaders, to equip ourselves as leaders to grow and engage our boards at a higher level? Thyonne: Thanks for the compliment on the video that you had me do at the last minute. It's really important for us as leaders to engage and interact with our boards because our boards are what make our organizations. They hold the fiduciary responsibility for our nonprofit organizations, which means if they're not working in step with the executives and the team at the organizational level, you absolutely could slip and fall. Your board is like your safety net. They are looking at things. Their role is to actually make sure the organization is staying afloat, is sustainable, is doing what it says it's supposed to do, staying in line with the vision and the mission. Your board is your support system. It's important for leaders to understand the relationship and the role they have with their board members. The foundation that I worked with prior was the Annenberg Foundation here in Los Angeles. We did do capacity-building by teaching board leaders how to work in alignment with the executive director. The program was called Alchemy. It was a magical program to bring together the executive director and a support person, or a champion, and the board chair. They had to come together in the program, which we would do quarterly. We came for classes and learning how to work together, how to build the capacity of the organization, and even how to fundraise. With them working hand in hand, they were able to have much higher success rates. It's important for leaders to understand the importance of their board and what their board roles are. Especially with small organizations, when you start an organization, my mom is on the board, my brother is on the board, and my sister down north. They're like, “Yeah, sure, you can put my name down.” They have no idea what it means to be responsible on a board. They don't know anything about board governance. It's important for leaders who want to start these nonprofits to understand your board is a serious thing. It's not just your mom and grandma and everybody who said, “Yeah, we should do that. That sounds cool.” And you're selling pies or chicken dinners or whatever it is to raise money. That's great, but if you have a board who understands their fiduciary responsibility, they will say, “We can sell these chicken dinners, but we also have to expand and talk to somebody like Sherita about how we find grant funding and how we are in alignment with that and how we stay with our vision and our mission. If you're working with saving the chickens, selling chicken dinners might not be a good idea.” Hugh: Absolutely. Thyonne: It's important for us to know what we're doing and that our boards know their roles. Hugh: I want to get Sherita on here for a minute. Sherita has some family issues, and she needs to go tend to some of those important things. She set you up for this thing that you are going to talk about. Everybody thinks there is grants, and it will be a smooth road going after them. You send in an application, and people will give you all this money. We have to learn some things as leaders, don't we? Sherita: Yes. For one, grant funders are investors just like any other investor. People think that there is a magic potion or something when it comes to grants for the nonprofit arena. That's why another time when Hugh and I worked together, and I wrote that article, “Nonprofit - The Stepchild of Business,” people treat a nonprofit like a side gig or a hobby. They don't put much into it. They might submit one grant or two grants and don't receive it and say, “See, everyone told me not to do this.” But they have been trying to get money for their for-profit business for 20 years and kept trying until they succeeded. They will not put much into the nonprofit arena but expect a greater return. That's what tends to happen. When you're going after grants, it's a joint process with the executive or whoever they choose to work with the person that is writing the grants because even myself, I raised over $30 million. We developed over 600 organizations. But there is no way to just take it upon myself and write about my clients' accomplishments without their assistance. I am very good at what I do, but I am only as good as the information received. People expect you to write a grant for a building, for the grant-writer to write about it without their input. The grant-writer doesn't know their accomplishments, who they have worked with in the past as far as collaborations, their projects. It has to be a joint effort in order to make it happen. Yes, like you said, I lost a very dear uncle this morning. I tried to clear my calendar to be on here with you, but I got the call this morning that my uncle passed away. I am working on a couple of things. Before I leave, it's also important for people. Just today or yesterday it was reported, a director of an ER committed suicide. She was in New York at a major hospital. Had contracted coronavirus herself while treating patients. Got well, went back to work, and yesterday, committed suicide. Organizations after every catastrophe, whether it is Katrina or the 1930s Depression, after every catastrophe, it doesn't stop there. There is going to be an aftermath. There is cause and effect. Organizations are going to need to get prepared for depression, suicide prevention, PTSD, while also like professionals like ourselves, helping people to regain themselves after this. With every issue or problem, there is grant funding. That is why grants are there: to address problems and issues. This is why the nonprofit arena, and you hear about grants more during times like this. It's not that it operates less. The nonprofit arena steps up more. It's important to understand that, understand how you can stabilize your footing, and understand the process of how to go after funding in order to ride this wave. Yes, it is a negativity that is happening right now. Yes, we are losing lives. Yes, a lot of businesses are closed right now. If we understand how to ride the wave of what is happening right now in addition to knowing how to survive and move forward in it, that is what I will be talking about. I thank you for having me on, including me with these other experts. Wil, hi, how are you? It's been years. Tell Pastor I said hello, and I do want to speak with you guys following on this. David Gruder, Greg, Thyonne, and Bob, I look forward to being with you on Friday. Have a very blessed day. Hugh: That was so profound. It's time for some summary statements. I'd like to start with Bob Hopkins. Every time I talk to Bob, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge he has about a lot of different topics. He is living the sweet life. He could be tending his garden, but he is out there inspiring students and teaching. He has joined the SynerVision team and wants to help us take the magazine up another level and do some work with us. Blessings to you and sharing your gifts, and thank you for being a part of this presenting team. We are going to wrap up here and let everybody have a moment to say something. What would you like to add to the conversation? Bob: I'm anxious to read the content again of everybody and what we are going to do and where I fit in. I am going to be there for the entire time. A lot of it might be off the top of my head after I have learned what I have heard from you. I don't want to go on a tangent that doesn't have some relationship to what we are already talking about. I think as a time when we all speak for 20 minutes at a time, then I'm later on in the afternoon. I'm the last speaker. At least that was the schedule I saw. Hugh: I messed with it because we had some changes I had to make. I am going to send that out to you right after this session. You do have several times that you are going to be able to influence people and share some of your stuff. I have had to rework it. Our Bishop Kirkland in New York couldn't be here today. She is sitting in New York talking to people about working together, collaborating. She is going to share with us Friday about that. We will get a report on how that is going in New York City. Bob, you could speak off the top of your head all day and not duplicate yourself. You have such a wealth of information. We are going to talk about philanthropy. His book is brilliant. He lifted it up before. Your book is 100-something stories of nonprofits and how philanthropy really works. We think we know what philanthropy is, but it really is different. How do boards connect with that? You have experience running nonprofits as well as being a resource to them. We have had to make the schedule a little fluid, but it's not a whole lot different. I have moved you up in the day a little bit. Whenever you talk, people are going to listen. It's like one of those big investment companies. When they talk, we all listen. Knowing that, you're going to have great gifts to share. Don't put yourself down. You have a lot of important stuff to share. Thank you for being part of this great presentation team. Bob: Thank you. Hugh: Greg Sanders. Why is the work of a nonprofit so important? Why are you sponsoring SynerVision? Greg: My mother and my father were both university teachers. My mom was in foreign languages, Spanish. My father was in music. I taught sociology for 30 years. I have a big heart for students who can't figure out what the heck they are going to do with their lives when they are 18-22, which is an important thing I felt like I did when I was working at the university. Not just transmitting content, but helping people figure out their futures. I think about Dr. Gruder who is known for integrity. My feeling is that everything we do should be of service to other people. I love the nonprofit organization because they wear right on their sleeve that we are here to serve. Businesses should have that same mindset. If what you do is not improving the quality of life for other people, you should go do something else. That is what EZ-Card attempts to do. I tell people if you are going to build a house, you could do it with your bare hands, but it's a lot better to do it with tools, even with power tools, because if you spend $1 on a power tool, it's going to help you save hundreds of dollars in building that house. That is what we are trying to do at EZ-Card. If the technology fits and helps people to do what they have chosen to do to help other people in a more efficient manner, that is what we're all about. I think we are right. We need to rethink the way we are doing everything, and we need to think about it in terms of helping other people. We are trying to make money during this period of time, but we are also caring for people. Just recently, I had one middle-aged adult talking about taking care of her 88-year-old mother right now and saying, “My mom was healthy. She went out with her friends. She went to restaurants. She had an active life. Now she is cooped up in her house and is wasting away. She is no longer actively engaging.” My advice is to maintain your normal life as best you can, even having to shelter in place. How can you maintain the routines? How can you maintain life as normal? It's that kind of strategic thinking that nonprofit organizations have to be maintained in. You can't do some things the way you did them before, but you can make a semblance of those activities and try to keep those healthy routines in place. I am privileged to be a part of it. We are trying to drive some traffic to what is happening on Friday from the EZ-Card side. Hugh: Text 64600 with LDR in the message. You will have the SynerVision card. Dr. Gordon, how would you like to close? Thyonne: Hugh, I hope you can keep David, Greg, Bob, and Wil because I plan on putting on my mask and kidnapping Bob from Texas. Bob, don't pay attention. I am going to be grabbing you and bringing you to California. Bob: My bags are packed. Thyonne: I have already texted Greg's site. I am excited about that. David, I know how I feel about you. Wil, I just met you. This is going to be an amazing symposium. I am excited to be part of it. Anyone who misses it, you are about to miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. That is what we have to understand as nonprofit leaders and people in this space. I will speak as an African-American woman. This isn't our first time in a crisis. We know how to get through a crisis. Nonprofits, we are used to not having a whole lot and making a lot happen. In this crisis, we are the leaders. We actually know what to do already. Our leadership style is what everybody else is trying to do. We have been doing this makeshift thing for a long time. We have such an opportunity to take this thing by the horns and make an opportunity of it. That is what I will talk about with the board leadership as well. When board leaders step up right now, there are all sorts of opportunities for us to come out of this thriving and leading during this crisis as well as through this crisis to help us get through it. There is so much opportunity. With the people who will be at this symposium, wow, you will get the ideas, the information. You will have the knowledge that you need to break through and make a change in your organization. I am excited. Hugh, let's make it happen. Bob, don't look for me, but I am coming to get you. Hugh: That's awesome. You may have noticed some old white guy. Sometimes we're clueless. Some of us know how to dress, but not me. Wil, did you say Pastor is on here? Blessings. Do you have a picture, or will you just talk to us? Dr. Kevin Williams: I am just going to talk to you. I don't have a picture today. Hugh: Thank you for being here. All of us have crazy schedules. We have some awesome folks. You are going to talk about how Paul said be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Talk about the transformation that you are going to talk about. You will be square up at noon EST at the symposium. It's the spot before we take a lunch break. Tell us why we need that and why you want to share that with people. Kevin: Right now, I think one of the greatest challenges that that could hinder any individual is to be stuck to an old way of thinking. Everything that has transpired recently has caused two waves of thought. One wave is people believing that things will go back to the way that they were, which is a very dangerous mindset. The other thought is understanding that they won't go back to the way that they were, but also understand what is getting ready to come. Any time there is going to be advancement, either you are going to be a reactionary person or you will be an initiating individual. Thought leaders nowadays have to initiate so that we can provoke other people to initiate and not be reactionary. Usually, if you are reactionary, you are going to suffer the consequences of reacting. But when your mind is renewed, when Paul talks about that, he is talking about a renovation of taking out some old things, almost like renovating a house, taking out some old things and literally changing the scope of the house and the aspect of it so that it can meet your current needs. The same thing happens in the mind. If a person doesn't transform their thinking and get out of the old stuck way of thinking, they are going to ultimately implode and damage themselves. But when an individual comes into a mind renewal, this is why symposiums like this are key and important, because what you have then is you have thought leaders who are ultimately like construction workers. What we're doing is aiding the individual to renovate their thinking because in this renovation, people are not just going to learn about what's new, but also learn the type of thinking they should have that has hurt them before but also is going to help them now because now we're open to a new way of thinking. If you look at what's happening with the United States, with the government, with the marketplace, everything is shifting. Look at stocks. Look at the different kinds of currency now, like cryptocurrency. All of these different things that are happening, our mind has to be renewed. The next thing is we have to make sure that we don't fall into the hands of something that we don't ascribe to because with all of this that is happening, by being a faith leader, I understand that God has an agenda. Even though God has a focus and a vision for all of us, so does the enemy. We have to make sure we are not operating in something that looks like it has a form of goodness, but denies the power thereof. As thought leaders, one of the things I believe that is important is that our thinking definitely has to change in order for us to be effective for this coming time and for this generation right now that is depending on us to see something for them that they cannot see for themselves. Hugh: Awesome. Dr. Williams, it's been a few years, but you invited me down to work with your congregation. We did some leadership stuff. Wil and I did some music stuff. Also, the very first symposium happened in Greensboro at your church. Did you know that? Kevin: Wow. I knew that we did the symposium, but I didn't know it was the first one. Hugh: That was a shorter one. It was an evening. You put out the word, and everybody came. I remember Bishop Willimon asked somebody why they came, and they said, “Pastor said to come.” He was quite impressed with that. This is #27. It's changed a little bit. Of course, we can't do it live right now, so we are doing it virtually. It's a celebration of something we started in Greensboro at New Jerusalem Cathedral. Thank you for helping me launch this so many years ago. Kevin: Most definitely. I always want to be a part of things that you're doing. Hugh: Blessings. You've been a blessing to me. Thank you for being here. You're sharing it with your tribe. Bishop Kirkland is out here in New York City getting people to collaborate. She is doing some important work today. She will be with us on Friday. May 1. Be there. Thank you for getting in here. As we close out here, my brother David Gruder, you get the last spot. You know Dr. Williams, don't you? David: Yes. We have not talked or seen each other for a number of years, but I am delighted to reconnect. Hugh: This has been a great conversation. What do you want to leave us with? David: What I want to leave you all with is a quote from a 20th century thought leader that many of you are familiar with by name at least, Buckminster Fuller. What Bucky Fuller said was, “The best way to predict the future is to invent it.” This Friday, we are going to be talking about how nonprofits get to invent their future in effective, useful ways. I am really looking forward to offering some key psychological foundations for inventing a new future. Hugh: And you have a book. Do you want to offer a virtual version of it? Tell us about that. David: Very briefly, yeah. I have been involved in one capacity or another with 24 books now. One of them is a book I was the psychology editor for called Transcendent Thought and Market Leadership. That is by Bruce Raymond Wright. I have been blessed by Bruce to be able to offer a digital copy of the book as a gift to everyone who attends the symposium on Friday. Hugh: We will have some other gifts, but that is a significant one. David, thank you for being here. Kevin, thank you for being here. Greg, thank you for being here. Bob, thank you for being here. Thyonne is going to capture you and take you to California. He can do a book signing there. He will do that in California. I look forward to putting a spin on nonprofit leadership in a good way and inspiring people to go out there and make a huge difference. Thank you so much for sharing today with everybody. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Today, on Higher Energy, we are joined by special guest Dr. David Gruder, who is a clinical and organizational psychologist, an award-winning best-selling author, and a highly sought speaker, trainer, and trusted advisor. He is the founder and CEO of Integrity Revolution, which “helps ‘everyday people to world leaders’ create sustainable happiness, health, love, and success without sacrificing personal integrity or social responsibility,” through providing Essential Psychological Skills for Extraordinary Businesses, Leaders, and Wellbeing™. Dr. Gruder joins us today to discuss helping clients get free from societal/political stress and learned helplessness that's affecting their wellbeing, harming their relationships, & influencing them as citizens. The American Psychological Association's Stress in America™ survey has found a growing need for psychoeducational and psychotherapeutic resources to help individuals deal with stress more effectively. Dr. Gruder outlines the types of questions helping professionals may ask clients to understand the impact that stressors such as societal divisiveness, political polarity, and media mind jacking are having on them, along with the keys to assisting clients in nonpartisan, psychologically mature ways. He shares the psychological skills that helping professionals can provide to elevate a client's mindset, eliminate learned helplessness, increase self-responsibility, and replace impotent rebellious activism with solution-focused activism. Visit https://podcast.energypsych.org/ to learn more!
Business owners who practice conscious capitalism are having a huge impact on the world. And as the world continues to change, more and more people are awakening to the sense that there is something off with the old ways of business. Is there a better way to make money and help people? David Gruder [...]
NPC Interview with Penny Zenker Hugh Ballou: Welcome to the Nonprofit Chat tonight. We have a really, really, really good topic tonight. My co-host on these has been Russell David Dennis. I'm Hugh McPherson Ballou. We have a good time on these, and we introduce great things to the world by introducing great people who have great products and services. We have a long time friend of ours tonight, Penny Zenker. Russ is carrying the heavy weight tonight. I am waiting in an airport to board a plane, so I will be a passive participant in this. We are recording on the cloud. This is going to be part of our Nonprofit Exchange podcast, Penny. This nonprofit chat is something we broadcast out to folks every Tuesday at 7. Russell, would you cue up the introduction and let Penny talk a little bit about herself as well? Russell Dennis: Thank you, Hugh, and welcome, Penny. It's always a pleasure to see you. It's been a good while. Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we have Penny Zenker. Penny is a strategic business coach and trainer. She coaches business leaders and entrepreneurs. She is the author of the best-selling book The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time. Penny leverages her personal experiences building up and later selling a multi-million-dollar business, as a senior executive at one of the world's largest market research companies, and working with business leaders all over the world as a Tony Robbins business coach. Penny's proven and practical approaches to help people get results quickly. Time is something that is just difficult to get more of. It's the one thing we can't get more of. Penny, tell everybody about yourself today. Good to see ya. Penny Zenker: Good to see you, too, Russell and Hugh. Always good to be here with you guys. Thank you for having me here. As you cued it up, where some of my experience and background is, Hugh earlier said, “How are you qualified? What makes you the time management expert or productivity expert?” Maybe it's because I have more challenges than most people, I don't know. No. As you heard in the introduction, I started my own technology business back when I was 25. Nobody knows better about time management challenges than an entrepreneur starting off in their business, wearing all the different hats and playing all the different roles. I have seen it from an entrepreneur's perspective. Then I went to work for a big company, organized very differently. At the same time, when I left my company and I sold it, I thought, Now I am going to go work 9-5. It's going to be so easy. I am going to take over this role. That's not what it was at all. Instead of being the CTO of the organization, I took my boss's job in a reorganization, and then I was responsible for multiple countries, speaking a foreign language, and reorganizing the organization. I have never experienced such a challenge, which isn't time. At that moment, I thought it was a time management challenge. How can I do all this? What I'd love to briefly share is a story that shifted the way I thought about time management forever. And hopefully some of our discussion will really be around that. When I took over this position at the market research company, and I was overwhelmed and I was questioning myself if I even had the skills and what was needed to do this job because it was so much different and bigger than what I had ever had before. It's when we get overwhelmed, we think we get overloaded, but we are really just overwhelmed. There is a difference between that. One has to do with mental capacity, where the other one is more of a time capacity issue or a physical capacity issue. I went into my boss's office and said, “Peter, I can't do this. I don't think I am the right person for this position.” I shared with him what my challenges were. He sat there patiently, like a cool leader, listening. Then he said, “Listen. I hired you to make decisions. What you do with the rest of your time is up to you.” Think about that. Hugh: That is profound. Penny: My reaction was at first, “Easy for you to say.” But then I thought about that, and it was so simple. As you said, Hugh, it is so profound. It really made me rethink the way that I looked at everything because it's true. It shifted my mindset from that point forward to being much more of a strategic thinker than a tactical thinker. When we are in time management, then we are tactically thinking. We need to pull ourselves away and be more strategic. Go ahead, Hugh. Hugh: People in leadership positions have tremendous impact. What that person said to you, “I pay you to make decisions,” that is amazing. Penny was talking about her journey of being able to think strategically. Penny, that was profound. Talk about it a bit more, and then we will get into some of the substance we want to talk about tonight. Penny: As I said, that was the base of me shifting my thinking around time. As I got further into that organization, I was able to work with people in various divisions of that organization. Then I went to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach for his organization, and I worked with people all over the world. I really helped them to—I think you said it earlier, Russ—get out of your own way. I helped them to get out of their own way. If cash flow is the number one reason why businesses go out of business… *technical difficulties* As I started to work with Tony Robbins as a strategic business coach there, the goal was to help companies grow their businesses, double their business and to grow exponentially. They say that the number one reason businesses go out of business is cash flow. The number two reason has to be because of their time management. They would have the cash flow if they managed their time and thought more strategically about what they need to do. It doesn't matter what culture or what country. I found myself working on the same set of skills first and foremost with people all over the world to help them to manage the way that they think around time management and where they focus and how they prioritize, to get them to think more strategically about what they are doing as opposed to tactically. Then we could implement the strategies and things like that. But it's really about shifting the perspective around time and being more of a strategic thinker around that than a tactical thinker. Hugh: What is your book about? Stop the Tug of War with Time. We used that in our teaser that we sent everybody earlier. Penny: I saw that. I think it's the common struggle that people feel is, “I wish I just had more time.” It's that tug of war with time. What I did was all the people I have worked with around the world, I thought, How can I bring this to a larger number of people than just those few people I have been able to work with one on one? I really want to make a much bigger impact. The way to do that is either through written word, or a video series that I do. I also have a piece of software that goes with this. It really describes what I call the productivity zone. When you are in the zone, you are focused on ten core drivers that help you to think and act more strategically, like I said about the decision-making aspect. What are the aspects that go into having us be more strategic about how we show up for our time? There is a framework for the productivity zone. What is in the zone is these ten drivers. What is out of the zone is perfectionism and procrastination. We were talking earlier, Russ, before the show started, about how that is where resistance is. We create resistance through procrastination because mentally we are not interested, we are not clear on what we want to do, we are not motivated, and we are afraid of what is on the other side. We have all this resistance that sits outside, and that is where the stress is. Hugh: Stress? Stress? We don't have stress. So, Penny, Russ has written books, I have written books. My first book, I outlined it. I started on the chapter “Getting Things Done.” It was about what you are talking about, planning, that whole space. Once I wrote it, it really helped me do the rest of the book, and it gave me this sense of accountability. Okay, well you said it, now you gotta do it. Writing the book and thinking about being productive, you have to plan it and make use of the time available. Was there a learning experience for you in going through that writing the book process? Penny: There were a lot of learning experiences as I'm sure you guys have had, too. Some of the things that helped me were principles I explained in the book. For instance, the number one principle is to understand how to motivate yourself and to be in the right space of motivation. When you are really motivated, everything else disappears, and you get things done. One of the things I did first was create the cover of my book, like way before it was even started. I had the cover, so I was motivated to see that it was already done; it was just filling in the pages. That really motivated me and inspired me as I saw it up on my desk and know that it was just about filling it in. Mine came pretty easily structured. Once you have an outline, and because I am talking about the ten drivers, it was pretty easy because each driver was then a chapter. As soon as I had that, it was clear. And how I wanted to format it. I wanted to have a few callouts. I wanted to have a summary at the end so people could have the top three takeaways of each chapter. And I wanted to have a personal story at the beginning of each chapter. Once I defined the outline and that format, it was really easy to put things in. Easier than people think, especially today with the whole dictate thing. I love that function. Hugh: I love Siri. I think I sleep with her. She understands me and makes my Southern into real language. You talked about your ten. I am asking some questions because Russ will do the heavy lifting after I go through security here at the airport. What are those ten? Can you outline those? Russ knows you and has done some research, and he has some profound questions to lay on you. We also have some questions that you and I devised a while back that are launching out there on Facebook and Twitter for people to respond to, and we will talk about those in the interview, too. What are those ten? PZ. Those are your initials. Penny: I know, isn't that funny? I realized that afterwards. Productivity Zone and Penny Zenker, PZ. Russ: Unconscious titling going on. Hugh: What are those ten? Penny: I will go through them real quickly. Obviously there is meat below it. The key is understanding how to twist them and make them work for you in the moment. Number one is motivation. Number two is self-talk. Number three is focus. Number four is physiology or self-care. I am going to do them in blocks. Those four together make up what I call Championship Psychcology. It's where we manage our energy. That is really the determination of what you get done in that time; it's because how you show up for that time. Those are the four initial drivers: about how we manage our energy and psychology. Then we go into Winning Strategies. That is the planning, getting that outline together. It's the process, creating systems, automating things. And then prioritization, knowing what comes first, what's important. Then we get into what makes it sustainable. Now we have our psychology and approach. What do we need to do to keep this going? That would be progress. That's the next one. Understanding measurement, what it is that we are measuring. Then lastly is being proactive in staying ahead of the curve. I know that is a total quick run-through, and maybe we will touch on a few more in detail. Obviously there is another resource if people want it. There is a chapter for each one of those in the book and software that goes along with that. Hugh: I muted myself because there was background noise. We have people joining us on Facebook and the webcast. Too bad about the technical problems before. I watched Frank Kern do a webcast for thousands of people, and they had a few snafus today. It happens. We are talking to Penny Zenker, author of The Productivity Zone: Stop the Tug of War with Time. I love it when people say they are going to manage time. You can't manage time; it's going to go by anyway. What are we managing? Penny: We are managing those three elements. We are managing our energy, which is what I say mostly. It's how to show up for the time. Let's face it: Most people know what to do, but they just don't do it. That's why I get into the procrastination and perfectionism; there is that resistance because there is something else going on there, and it's all up here. That's the biggest thing. Hugh: Oh my word, it's the mental trap. Penny: It is. Hugh: We have David Gruder next week. He is going to talk more about our mind. We had a chat with him a couple months ago about the shadow inside. There is a lot of synergy to what you are talking about, and what several of our presenters are talking about. What you are presenting is a really good system, wow. We don't sell things on this show, but if people wanted the book, where would they find it? Penny: It's available on Amazon. They can get it on Amazon. Look up The Productivity Zone or Penny Zenker, and they can find it there. There is a link I can put up if anybody is interested in taking the assessment, which enables them to get a piece of software that helps them actually to rate themselves and do some self-coaching, identify their strengths and weaknesses, and set some actions around these ten core drivers, too. Hugh: If you will send that to us, we will put that in the notes for the Nonprofit Chat and the podcast. We're pushing 15,000 listeners on the podcast, so somebody likes what we're doing. We want to make sure they have access to whatever you mention, so if you mention any links, make sure we have them. Russell, I know you're itching to get in here. I am going to go through security as you guys are doing the next bit, and I will see you on the other side. Russ: Outstanding. I am looking through this. I am now the owner of your book. Penny: Thank you. Russ: Technology is good for consuming things, not necessarily good for the checking account. The impulse. I love the idea of the issue of time. They look at it as the enemy. I have heard this saying that time is a gift, not the enemy. Penny: Right, that's a good statement. Russ: Yes, we can get into some of the questions that we have for the week. Our first question is: What is the biggest time vampire of your life? Penny: Right. I want everybody to think about this question and answer it for themselves. Hopefully, for those who are joining us on Facebook, post what it is. Get really clear on what the biggest time vampire is. For me, my biggest time vampire is my kids. I love them, and of course I want to be flexible to be there. But they miss the bus, and then I have to drive them to school. Whatever I have planned is out the door. Or I have to pick them up from school because they missed the bus, or they have soccer practice. I do a lot of organization to get them to where they need to go and things like that. Things pop up all the time. Somebody is sick. I will include the dog in that. The dog has a problem, and I have to take care of that. We all have time vampires. What that means to me is something that we can or can't control. There are things outside of our control that happen that take our time up. But we also have to think about which part is within our control. There is a piece of it that we can anticipate what kinds of things could come up, and we can set things in place, be proactive, so we don't have that. In the morning, if I could make sure to wake my kids an extra 15 minutes early, then I can avoid most of the challenges of them being late, unless it is a real exception. I want people to take ownership of the time vampires. It's like that person that calls and you know every time that person calls they want to talk to you for an hour. You can allow that person to be that time vampire because you don't have an hour to give them. Or you can say, “Hey, what's up? I only have ten minutes.” If you qualify yourself in the beginning, not in a rude way, but in a good way, “Love to talk to you. That's why I picked up. But I only have a couple minutes.” When you do things like that, then you can help to mitigate those time vampires. Russ: I think that can create conflicts for people because they say, “What if something happens that is out of my control?” It's in here. It's part of the process; we're talking about planning. That involves contingencies. You have to have a contingency plan. Entrepreneurs, we are eternal optimists. Everything usually takes two to three times more money, time, and effort than we planned for because we plan for everything to go well. I think that's a pretty common trap. Penny: What is your vampire, Russ? Russ: My vampire- I suffer from what I call S to the third power. Shiny Stuff Syndrome. I have to be very careful. I do a lot of communicating online, and I find myself in social media a whole lot because I am writing, posting, responding to people. Sometimes I have writing and other projects to do, so I need to back out of that so I can prepare for my meetings with clients and other things. That can be a real vampire, whether it's social media or email. There are apps out there you can get that will squawk at you or tell you to get out of there so you don't get stuck in social media or other things. It's really easy to get stuck in activities that don't produce revenue or results. With the coaching, for you, I know you work with a lot of different people. What are some of the more common vampires that the people you work with talk about? Penny: One of them you just mentioned: social media is a big one. Different types of office distractions are what people talk about. These open office environments that they are in. Now the studies have just come out to show they really are killing our productivity. That is why people prefer to work at home because they get stuff done at home. Often, when I go in and do workshops in organizations, they won't talk about this with each other, but in a safe space around these drivers, they are able to talk about the distractions of, “Hey, you know, my desk is closer to the kitchen area, so everybody stops to talk to me at my desk.” They don't get stuff done. There are those common things. There is the telephone ringing. They pick up their phone because it might be a client. They are constantly binging with their emails and things like that that are interrupting them. Depending on the office environment, there are a ton of different ways that our times can be taken. Russ: There are times I turn the telephone off or let voicemail pick up. My phone won't explode at my desk if I don't pick it up. For the most critical things, I think it's important to focus on those. Productivity zone, everybody's productivity zone, is that a moving target? Is that different for everybody? Penny: It is. We're not machines. We're not going to be calculating how productive we are by widgets. It's not like we produce ten widgets and have a productive day. We need to be able to feel in control. When we feel stressed, then you're not in the zone. You need to have some semblance of feeling like you're in control. I don't like the word “balance” because what does that mean? It's like a plane that is 90% of the time correcting all the time. It's never really on path. Maybe it's being in harmony. Being able to feel good about what you have accomplished and knowing you are moving forward on those things that are most important. The key thing about the zone is is that you can use any of these core drivers to get back in the zone. When you get distracted, you have one of those vampires, you can turn off your social media. People just don't do that. Being more conscious of what helps you to be more productive, and then putting things in place to support you—for example, I go to a personal trainer because I know I won't go otherwise. I want to be healthy, I want to stay fit and strong, and I know that it's important to my energy levels and my whole productivity. So I have to force myself by paying somebody to go and work with them. That's just the way it is. We have to put things in place so we know we're not living and reaching the things we want to reach. If we are not able to do it for ourselves, then we need to put something else in place, some other form of accountability to help us. Russ: Accountability is where it's at, for sure. I have an accountability coach that I speak with every week. That has been marvelous for me. There are other people here at my office, and we keep each other on task with different projects. Accountability is huge for helping stay productive. Penny: Absolutely. And that is why I created that software. Not everybody can afford a coach. I realize that. Having a coach in some instances can be outside of a person's budget, so I wanted to have something that would give them some accountability. They could come back to the tool on a weekly basis, assess where they are, and get that accountability coaching because it is key. Hugh: Penny, our primary audience here are clergy or nonprofit executives and people who work on a very limited budget. That would be an important gift for them. You have been to my workshop in Philly, and Russell has been to two of them. You both presented. It's great when you have people present who do better than you do in your own workshop. I feel really fortunate having you two guys around me. In that workshop, if you remember, I ask people what the topics they wanted to deal with most are. The number one in every location was leader burnout. I think that has to do with what you are talking about. It's not really having that structure. I asked about managing time, which we don't; we manage selves. Speak about how the anxiety and this stuff going unbridled, not having accountability, not having a plan, not being productive. How does that contribute to us being burned out? Penny: Burnout is the ultimate stress outside of the zone. It's gotten to a point where you are not doing anything about it, and you are just going on until- it's a stacking effect. Then it gets to the point where physically some people have adrenal issues because they really burn out in the context of mentally and physically. I believe that the things that are most important is for them to recognize and- Here is the challenge. Most people say they don't have the time. They don't have the time to invest in making sure they are not getting enough exercise and moving their body. They don't have enough time to get enough sleep. They don't have enough time for these different things, so they just keep going like the Energizer Bunny until they burn out. The key thing is to take a step back as soon as possible on a regular basis and say, “What's working and what's not working? Where must I make the time?” Again, I go to a trainer because I must make that time and because I know it is going to feed my energy and everything else. I know that my brain is like everyone else's where I say I don't have the time for that. I have projects I need to move forward on. These people in these nonprofits, they have a big responsibility and a big passion. Sometimes that passion can burn you out because you don't have harmony with the rest of the areas in your life. It's taking a step back and getting that strategic holistic look at what is going on so that they can focus their time and energy in the right places. One other quick thing is: A good question for those people to ask themselves: What is it costing you? Sometimes we just keep going, but if they really think about what it's costing them, it may be costing them volunteers and people on their team because they are not able to communicate properly. They are not able to lead their team anymore when they are in that stressful state because that energy is transferred. They might be losing possible funding. They might be destroying their relationships with their family. Any of us, if we think about what it's costing us, then it can create some greater motivation. We are one hundred times more motivated by pain than we are by pleasure. Really to connect to that and understand this is how it's not serving them, and then it will create some action. Hugh: Russ, maybe you get this, too, but I hear that often. I don't have time to write goals. I don't have time to make a plan. Well, you have time to really upset your whole board and your staff because you are not moving in a step-forward manner, and they don't know where to play. I would classify that as an excuse, not a reason. Penny: And the excuse comes from fear. I tell people all the time to write down the excuses why and where you are procrastinating. Everything around perfectionism, too. Why are you working to death? What are your excuses? I love that. Shine a light on those excuses so you can see what it really means. Hugh: I wouldn't be a procrastinator if I ever got around to it. Russ: That brings us to that second question, which is: What do you procrastinate around? My Kryptonite is the telephone. I need more phone conversations because I talk to people one on one. When I talk to them, that is how I get to know them and see what they are doing. I can set some time to make some sales calls. I find myself doing other things, whether it is a broadcast or writing something. It's really important. My friend Suzy Prudden says that my mind needs a telephone. What are some things that you procrastinated around and other things that a lot of people that you work with find themselves procrastinating around? Penny: Isn't it funny how we procrastinate on the things that are most important? People find this hard to believe about me, but- I do a lot of public speaking. One of the things I procrastinate on is preparing for my speeches. I don't mean structuring out the slides or anything like that, but the actual preparation. Recently, I did a TedX for Penn State in Erie, and that was the hardest thing for me: set aside time to practice. I kept finding other things to do instead of practicing. Then I had to go back to that accountability. I had to invite people to my house, and I had to burn the boats. I had to do things that meant I had no way out. People were coming, and I had to practice. I see a lot of people procrastinating on sales calls because of a fear of rejection, because they don't see themselves as a salesperson. They will procrastinate on asking people for referrals because they feel like if a person appreciated their service, they will just give me the referral. That's not true. People are just too busy to think about you, so you have to remind them. Russ: That's true. I'm my favorite subject. I'm all I think about. Penny: The administrative paperwork, that is another thing to procrastinate on. Anything that requires organization. Cleaning their desk. Getting through their email. I have had CEOs tell me they have had 5,000 unread emails in their inbox. That is ridiculous. Someone else told me they had 200 voicemails. Okay. Hugh: I don't think I'll tell you how many emails I have. Penny: Unread? Hugh: Everything is in spam, and I just don't go there. Penny: That's different. If it's spam, that's something else. You can filter things into different places, but this was in their inbox. The first thing that you do is take everything that comes into your inbox and you filter out all that spam. Only good quality content comes to your inbox. Hugh: I think the wisdom is being able to set some priorities on that. Excuse me, Russ, I interrupted you. Russ: As far as that email inbox goes, I have to clean out the spam first and quickly so that I can scan through for the important things. Filing it, I don't always file it, but I have to go through that inbox with the most current stuff and get it out of there. I do that at night before I go to bed sometimes because I get a lot. It's like delete, delete, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Even if you sign up for a free report or some valuable information, what happens is those folks email you every day. Penny: There are some good systems out there that help you to remove those. Hugh: I'd love to talk about that. We keep adding things. We add email, text, cell phone, but we don't take anything away. Penny: That's true. Hugh: Are we up to our third question yet? Russ: Yeah, we are. Penny, how do you prioritize your work? Another portion to that is how do you define what is urgent? I have trouble with that. Sometimes I have to back up, look at what is most important, and take things off the list. Penny: Totally. I find that is one of the biggest challenges people have. I am pretty good at that myself, but I find that a lot of people get- Look at the nature of an entrepreneur. We are born with a certain sense of urgency. It's a gift and a curse at the same time. We have to respond quickly because that is just in our nature. A potential client calls, so we have to get back to them. It takes real discipline to be able to really define and say what is really urgent. Is it really urgent that I get back to this person or that I check my email—I forget what the latest statistic is—130 times a day? It's ridiculous. Don't quote me on that, but the number is a ridiculous number of how many times people check their email. It's making planning a priority. A lot of these drivers are intertwined. I pulled them out so we can get some awareness out of them, but in setting priority, we need to understand that balance between what is important. To me, what is important is strategic. I brought that up in the very beginning. My whole mindset works around what is strategic and how we can think and act more strategically. Thank you, Peter Hoffer, for that, my mentor who taught me that. So I am always thinking, Is this going to further my most important goals? And that is how I stay. I try to do those things first. I am very clear on my list of things that needs to be done that those are the most important. It will be my multiplier in my long-term strategy. I call it having the multiplier mindset so that I know I am working on my multiplier. Russ: Okay. Penny: And then to be able to look at the things that are urgent but not as important. How do you handle those? Can you delegate some of those? Can you automate some of those? Can you be proactive so that they don't show up any more? Hugh: Comment on two things. There is a book by Hummel called Tyranny of the Urgent. Do you know that book? Penny: I don't know that book, but it sounds good. Hugh: The other one is Covey talks about the quadrants. Urgent, important, not important, not urgent. And how we segment our work. If we ignore stuff, then the not important becomes urgent, and there is the tyranny. Penny: Yes, yes. The Covey matrix is called the Eisenhower matrix. I like to have people use that to build awareness as to what they are doing throughout the day. If we took that matrix and they just identified at the end of the day what percentage of the day did you spend in each quadrant, it gives you some awareness. As you start to build your task list, you can look at those quadrants. Which of those things are from the important quadrant? Which of them are in the urgent quadrant? And so forth. It gives you a greater awareness. It's almost like when people are asked to do a food diary because they need to have greater awareness as to what they are eating. To most people, it sounds ridiculous. I know what I am eating. If you have to write it down, it gives you a different level of clarity than just having it in your head. Oh my goodness, I only had one glass of water the whole day, and I am supposed to have had eight. Did I really have five chocolate chip cookies and that carrot cake? Oh, I thought that was yesterday. That was today. Did I really have eight cups of coffee? Oh, I did. When you have to write it down, it's a rude awakening. it's the same thing if you look and really log what you are doing with your time, it's a rude awakening. I have had some really big Ahas in working with people and having them see that so they could clearly from that point decide what I can delegate. They could clean the situation up, but they have to recognize it fully first. Hugh: Absolutely. In one of John Maxwell's books, he sits down in his thinking chair at the end of every day. He spends fifteen minutes thinking about where the time got lost and making notes as to what he can do better. There are affirmations and corrections. I suggest to clients I work with who have a similar pattern. We do what we call daily valuable deliverables, something that is a baby step that leads us to a bigger plan. It's a daily discipline. I am of the opinion that we learn from ourselves. You have referred to some of these things during this interview. Writing down what you eat, we are what we eat, and we are also what we think and we are what we do. That is a good idea. Write it down and look at it. That is some of the same discipline as writing down your food. If you feel bad, it might be what you ate, but it might be how you created some stress in your stomach because you didn't plan your day and then work in the plan. Am I rambling, or am I hearing what you're saying? Penny: Absolutely. You are picking up what I am putting down. Yes. Russ: Writing things down is a question of accountability. Once you have it on paper, it's real. Saying things to my accountability coach just adds to that. You know what surprises me is how much better some things sound in my head than when I am telling somebody else or writing them down. Penny: We can lie to ourselves when it is in our head. When we get it on paper, it's hard to lie to ourselves. That is why I like to have people get it on paper. There is another exercise I have people do around distractions. The reason we are not getting to what is important is all of these excuses and distractions. I have them track their distractions and categorize them. I have a link that people could go to to download that worksheet. Russ: That is what I need for my Shiny Stuff Syndrome. Penny: Here is the thing. Most people will download the sheet—and you know you are one of them—and you won't do anything with it. You won't actually take the few minutes that it takes to write things down. That is why we don't get results. We don't have the discipline and the mental capacity to use the tools that we are given. Again, it comes back to the mental side. Why is it important? Get connected to how much more you can do. Get connected to how much more relaxed you would be if you could just remove some of these things. Hugh: Penny, when you do that, you find you have more free time because you really put things in order and you eliminate the things you shouldn't be doing. Penny: Right? How awesome is that? Russ: One of the things in what you were saying I noticed about myself over the years is I would find myself learning more things. As I got overwhelmed, I picked up this tool or that tool. There is remarkable stuff out there. Next thing you know, I have all of these tools, and I am sitting there trying to think, How am I going to juggle things, manage ‘em, make ‘em work? I am overwhelmed because I have this pile of tools, and my productivity is not where I want it to be. I am getting more and more tools and more and more stressed. Am I just so wacky that I am on my own planet? Penny: You're like everyone. I think you said it, Hugh. It keeps being more and more and more, and nothing is going away. It comes back to the discipline of just saying… I don't like to use a ton of tools for the same reason. There is too much. A) We have to get away from the “I need a new tool because it will fix everything.” All it does is start us back over, and two months later, we say, “This isn't working. I need a new tool.” All the tools work. I guarantee you, all the tools work. It doesn't matter what tool it is. If you use it consistently, it will work. It might not be perfect, but it will work. Hugh: I have a tool called a pen and paper. Penny: I would say go through your tools and remove most of them. It reminds me of an IT group I was working with. They wanted to bring in this document management system. It was all about choosing the tools. I said, “Hold on a second. If we are going to put in a new document management system, how are we going to use it?” First, let's think strategically how we are going to organize ourselves versus what are the bells and whistles of the system that don't matter. That is what we need to get back to. What do we really need to run our business? What is it that we are looking to do? What are the options available? Choose one of those tools and be committed enough to it to follow it through. Hugh: That is real discipline. I am going to let Russell take us out here. I am going to board a plane to Florida to go to CEO Space where it is not raining today. Penny, this is awesome stuff. Russell will take us to the end. Russ: Thanks, Hugh. Have a good trip. Give everybody my best down there. Penny: Me too. Russ: Let them know they are in my thoughts. It's important: getting down and using a tool that is going to work. I have a specific set of things that I like. I use Evernote. I do everything in Evernote. Funny enough, it was a tool you introduced me to. Penny: I like Evernote, too. Russ: I have clients that use the Microsoft suite. They use Google, and they don't want to do anything different. That is how I got a pile of tools. That doesn't always work. But I stick to Evernote; that is really my tool. Even if I am using their platform, I organize things with Evernote. Penny: Perfect. Then you have a system that works for you. Russ: I have what works for me. I love it. I wish I could convince everybody that I am right and they should use mine, but that is crazy. Everybody works a little differently. Penny: Everybody does. There are going to be different tools that are for some and other tools that are better for us. Russ: You mentioned it very early in the show, but I'd like to spend a little bit of time on it. Our fourth question is talking about the difference between being overwhelmed and overloaded, and how we can separate those and manage each of them. Penny: Like I said earlier, most people think they are overloaded. They get to this thing where I am at capacity and I can't take on any more. I even hear myself say, “I don't have the time.” The truth is I am not being resourceful enough to find ways to make it happen. Either the motivation isn't high enough, or I have some kind of fear of what it is going to take away from me. So I get overwhelmed with all the things I have to think about. A lot of the times, what I am working with people around is how to get off overwhelm. Make a plan. Don't keep everything in your head. Go back to how you prioritize things. People get stuck because everything is a priority. Then they go into overwhelm. Sound familiar? We have all been there. Russ: I have a mantra for myself that I came up with. This is a processor, not a storage unit. Penny: That's good. I like that. Russ: I try to record things and organize them in a way that I can come back to them later. That is why I love Evernote. There is that emotional component. Overload is having too many things to do. With leaders, they can create that by overfunctioning or taking on too many things. How have you seen that impact some of the people you are working with, as far as having an overfunctioning leader and underfunctioning employees? Penny: Typically, I find that when there is an overfunctioning leader, the employees are underfunctioning. I call that the accountability effect. The leader feels nobody is accountable, and it's really because they are in their perfectionist, micro-management mode. They are trying to do everything; therefore, the others kind of get apathy, like the leader will do it anyway. That is often what I see. The people who are taking on, who are in that perfectionist stage, meaning they can't lose control of something, need to be overloaded. In most cases, they have teams or potential resources they could reach out to to be able to help them to delegate, but they don't want to delegate because they do it better, or the other person doesn't know, so it would be easier for me to do it than to teach them. Again it's a very tactical, short-term thinking versus how much time they could free themselves up over time so they can do the more strategic work. So I find that that is where the overfunctioning gets caught up. There are plenty of people. I am a single mom. I am involved – I have two kids who are somewhat coming into their teenage years, very active in sports, got a lot to organize with them. I run my own business, and I am involved in other community affairs and activities. And, and, and. You want to have a relationship. Part of it is spending time in our relationship. We manage all of these things in our lives. It doesn't have to be an overload; it's just how we approach it. It does come back to setting the priorities. Not every day are you going to get to everything that you feel is urgent and needs to be done. You need to have some criteria. We didn't talk about that in terms of prioritizing, but you need to have some criteria about what determines what pops to the top of the list. When you get clear on what that criteria is, and it depends on the circumstances of your life, those criteria could be around values. Or if you are looking for sales opportunities, you can't go after everything. You can overload yourself if you take on too big of a region. If you strategically approach it, you are being more resourceful, changing that overload, and not creating overwhelm. Does that make sense? Russ: Yes, breaking things down into smaller chunks helps me. I have three to five things, no more than five. Three things that I absolutely must get done. And then stick to that. Add more of course throughout the day. But the most important three is where I would look for myself. Where do you find the most resistance to people who are in that cycle? Penny: You just said the top three things. It's the excuses. People say, I have more than five. I can't do to the top three to five things. I have ten or twenty things, and there is no way around it. What I find is that most people are in an overwhelm place. What happens in our brain when we get stressed and in that overwhelm is that our brain starts not to work effectively. We go into flight or fight or freeze mode, which means we don't have access to our logical decision-making mode. That makes us more anxious and more in that emotional space. The most important thing is to take a step back and to get a broader perspective. That is why I talk about the ten drivers so that people can take a step back and see where they are in all of them and which one is the biggest hindrance for you right now. Maybe it's you don't have the time so you don't do any planning. Then you are in urgency mode so things fall apart, or you haven't planned accurately so you need more resources than you thought, or it takes twice as long. You know what I'm saying. It's really getting to take a step back and to be able to see it from a logical perspective. Russ: I think that is critical. Get that other perspective. That is where people like you and I and Roy, my accountability coach, come in. We get to cluster things, and we get overwhelmed. Somebody can bring an outside perspective. It could be an accountability buddy. Go out and hire a coach, or get an accountability buddy. This has been a marvelous hour. We have come down to our final couple of minutes. I am really looking forward to your book. What are some closing thoughts that you want to leave our audience with for themselves and for their teams? Penny: As a closing thought, what I would urge people to do is understand that it's not about time. There have been studies at the University of Pennsylvania where they studied stress and time. Basically, the outcome was the people who were given back time weren't any less stressed or happy than the people that they actually gave more to because it's how you show up for your time. I would say look at how you are managing your energy, how you are showing up for the time. Look at your excuses. When you say I don't have the time or whatever your excuses are, challenge them. Is it really true? What does that mean? I did this the other day. I heard myself say that I didn't have the time, and I looked at it and said, “Wait, that means it's not a priority for me.” Then I need to question myself as to why it's not a priority. If it's not a priority, get it off my calendar all together. By challenging ourselves, you can be your own coach. I'm not saying you don't need a coach. Everybody should have a coach because it's better to get the outside perspective. But when possible, be your own coach and challenge yourself in those excuses so that you can really get to the root of what is holding you back. Russ: Thank you. That is marvelous. Priorities change, and things change. There is a time to let go of things. Penny, I thank you very much for coming. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Tips to Becoming an Exceptional Board Member with Jeb Banner As the CEO and a Founder of Boardable, Jeb Banner is passionate about community nonprofits, entrepreneurship, and more. He also founded SmallBox, a creative agency for mission-driven organizations, and is co-founder of The Speak Easy and founder of Musical Family Tree, both 501(c)(3) nonprofits. Interview Transcript Jeb Banner: More and more. I was running another business at the time, which worked mostly with nonprofits called SmallBox, a creative agency here in Indy. As we raised some money and as the business turned off, I shifted from SmallBox to Boardable in the course of 2017. I went full-time in 2018. My wife actually took over the agency and runs that now. We are all in the same building in Indianapolis here in the old library. We still get to work together, but different floors. Hugh Ballou: Awesome. Jeb, we write a plan, set some goals, and we give it to the board. It's all a done deal. The board embraces it. What is your experience with boards? Jeb: Boards are busy. Boards are over-committed. Board members are often serving on multiple boards. They are spread thin. This is one of the challenges we want to solve in the product, eventually building out a talent marketplace on Boardable's platform to give boards access to a wider pool of talent. This is a real challenge. These great people who serve on boards often get called to serve on other boards. When they show up, they're often reading the material at the Stop sign, on the drive in, in the parking lot, during the meeting. They're not always prepared. Board members, as much as they really want to give everything they can, they don't really have the time to do it because they're spread so thin. Nonprofits struggle to hold board members accountable because they don't feel comfortable asking them to follow through in a way they should sometimes, or really do the role they need to do in the organization because they're volunteers. It's hard to make demands of a volunteer. A lot of what we're trying to do is build into the product ways for those board members to be nudged toward the right behaviors. Hugh: Well, this is fascinating. Russell, you worked with a nonprofit Indian reservation for many years. Are you hearing some things jump out about boards that you'd like to probe? Russell Dennis: Communication is probably the biggest challenge that board leaders and boards have. We had the challenge up there where I was working of geography working against us. Our board members were scattered over an area that was about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined in a county called Aroostook. Our council members, the government body, or board if you will, would travel from long distances, 60-65 miles some of them, to attend the meeting. We had bi-weekly meetings. In northern Maine, weather is an issue. Being able to communicate is pretty tough. There is more technology available for that. There is challenges in conducting board meetings and staying in touch. Yes, I agree that getting things done can be tough. It can be pretty tricky. A lot of times, when folks like you, entrepreneurs and consultants, people have problems that drive them bananas, that keep them awake. What were some of the key things that were driving you crazy that you thought you had to fix, that motivated you and inspired you to develop a platform to help board members operate an organization more smoothly? Jeb: I think the #1 thing is communication. What you just said there is true. Keeping up that communication between meetings. Doing it in a way that meets people where they are. Everybody has their own style. Some people like to text, some like to email, and some like phone calls. You have people at different technology levels, too. The boards I was running had less of that challenge. Boards I sit on now, that is one of the challenges they have. The #1 headache I experienced as a board chair was centralizing everything. So much was going into my inbox, like the bylaws would be attached to an email from two years ago. Where was the bylaws? There is no central repository. If somebody rolled off the board, their inbox rolled off the board with them. All that communication, all those documents they may have been working on just vanishes. That is a real problem with boards. There is no continuity if you are using those kinds of tools. They are not built for that. They are built for immediacy. That centralization was pain point #1. After that comes the communication pain point. Having a place where everything flows. If you start a discussion in Boardable, it goes into their inbox and phones. It responds, and it goes back in. It's always back in the system. That is a real headache. The third thing we thought about was it has to be super easy to use. It has to be simple. If you give a board member a tool they can't use, if they can't log in, if they can't make sense of it, it's worthless. It can do all the things in the world, but it's worthless. As we have gotten into it further, we think about it a lot more around engagement. We have different dimensions of engagement we think about as well. We can chat about that later. The initial problems were centralization, communication, and simplification. Hugh: Boardable.com. That's quite an impressive site. We have a couple folks I want to shout out to. Don Ward, who is in Orlando, Florida. He is the president of the CEO clubs in central Florida. Has groups that talk about leadership, business development, and nonprofits. He said, “Board members need to be trained. They think their input and power is far more than it was ever supposed to be. What if…” How would you respond to that, Jeb? Jeb: I think setting and managing expectations with a board member, and that is part of that training, around what their role and responsibility is on the board. Different boards have different levels of responsibility to the organization. Some boards really do have a high level. Fiduciary responsibility in most cases. There are real consequences to their decisions. They often don't understand that. They don't understand they are playing with fire, if you will. This is not a practice. Other boards are more advisory, where they are just giving input. Defining that role, and saying to the board member, “Hey, this is what we expect of you. This is your lane.” And being clear about that up front through board training, onboarding, mentorship—giving them a mentor to work with on the board—is a missed opportunity. Based on our research, two thirds to three fourths fail to do any onboarding or training. Then you have a board member that doesn't know what is expected of them, so they run wild. I agree with that comment. I think board members, not maliciously, they don't just know their role, so they do what they think they need to do. Hugh: You're so right. Without clear expectations, leaders are actually setting up conflict. People don't know where to- They can't color inside the lines because they don't know where the lines are. Jeb: That's right. I think a lot of times, leaders are timid about this. They are uncomfortable having that conversation. They are uncomfortable telling that powerful donor that has joined the board, “Don't do this.” They have trouble giving them those lines because they are writing checks in some cases, or they are influential. They struggle with that accountability and that clarity. Hugh: That's a big deal. I hear leaders say, “I can't correct them because they are volunteers. They're giving their time.” I served megachurches for 40 years. I had plenty of opportunities to fire volunteers. Sometimes they were happy about it. Most of the time, they were happy about it because they knew it wasn't a good fit. Actually, I got to a place where we eliminated the word “volunteer” because a lot of the language, like “nonprofit,” which is a lie, and “volunteer,” which is dumbing down, some of the language we use actually contributes to the lower functioning. In the church, we created members of the ministry. It was a leadership position. In my symphony, I am the president of the symphony here, we are on the road to creating a servant leader model, where people have a track, and they lead in the model here. There is a whole lot of things that we set up that we unintentionally set up problems. Talk about this- There is a fear of conflict. People want to step away from it, which fosters it. Making course corrections doesn't mean you have to tell people they are wrong. Talk about that interaction. That is a big deal, I think. Jeb: I often think- Are you familiar with Patrick Lencioni, the author? Hugh: Five Dysfunctions… Jeb: Five Dysfunctions of a Team. You look at that pyramid. You have to have that trust in order to have conflict, which gets into commitment, which leads to accountability to reinforce it, which outputs results. To have that alignment there, you have to start with trust. Making sure that board member is part- Trust is being part of a team, feeling like they are safe to step up. They can talk about their concerns. They feel they are in a safe space to speak their mind. It's very hard to engender that without some of that teambuilding work that you need to do with boards. There is some socialization to that. I use a design thinking framework when I work with boards to do small group activities to push conversations and connections so that people feel like they know each other and there is a foundation of trust so they can start to move in that conflict. Conflict is critical. You need to have conflict on a board. Healthy, productive conflict. Not political drama-based conflict, but real conflict where people really care about things. Hugh: it's a sign of energy, isn't it? Jeb: It's a sign of life. If you don't have it, you have a problem. If everybody is sitting there going, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” you have a dysfunctional board. It may not look like it, but it's dysfunctional. Hugh: The only place I have seen where there is no conflict is a cemetery. Jeb: There is conflict in the earth between the body and the ground, I'll tell you that much. Hugh: Oh man. Another watching on Facebook is Don Green, who is in Wise, Virginia. Don Green is the executive director of a nonprofit called The Napoleon Hill Foundation. Don is sending his thank you because this is useful information. Russell, do you want to weigh in on this leader making course corrections? I think this is a bigger topic than most people realize. Russell: Running a nonprofit or an organization is just like flying a plane. When you get into a plane, your pilot takes off, and they are flying along. They are off course the vast majority of the time. They spend the whole time course-correcting. You know where you're leaving from, and you know where you're going, but you make a lot of adjustments along the way. Running an organization is a lot like that. That is the thing. I had somebody say to me one time. I was attending a church many years ago back home. These guys are all nice. One of the deacons said, “If you like everybody you've met here, you haven't been to enough services.” There is going to be that conflict from time to time. It's important to be able to come back together at the end of that day and agree on the common goal. How you get there could be an interesting dynamic. If everybody was the same, people would get bored and walk away. That dynamic tension is what makes the work exciting. Jeb: Absolutely. Hugh: You don't want a bunch of yes people, do you? Russell: No, it would be very dull. Hugh: Also, we create a culture that is the opposite, where people are afraid of standing out and saying their mind. The real meeting happens in the parking lot. “So yeah, I knew what was going on in there, but here is what I think.” Triangling going on. Jeb, let's forecast. What does a really great board look like? We were talking about the exceptional board member. Either the board as a whole or a board member. Tell us what that looks like from your perspective. Jeb: I think there are a few dimensions to this. You have the composition of the board itself. The board should be somewhat reflective, not entirely one-to-one of the people it's serving, but somewhat reflective so there is an empathetic connection to the service being provided. Then I think there should be diversity of age, race, gender. It needs to bring in different perspectives. I don't have an exact formula for that, but a healthy board has a level of diversity there. Getting into the roles of the board. You look at that. We need someone who has a legal background, depending on the organization, a finance background, a marketing background. It's important to have that composition as well. Then you look at the actual activity of the board. That's where I think about engagement. I think about seven dimensions of engagement. Preparation for a board meeting. Are they preparing? Are they reading the materials? Are they showing up to the meetings? Are they following through on what they said they would do? Are they volunteering, getting involved in the organization so they feel the impact of the work? Are they advocating on behalf of the organization? Are they fundraising? Helping raise money. Are they donating? Writing the checks. Looking across those seven dimensions, and then looking at those other areas, I think that then you need leadership. That is the last ingredient. To make sure you have that foundation of safety and trust for conflict, which leads to a healthy dialogue and the ability of that board to really, truly govern the organization. Russell: Our friend Dr. David Gruder develops a lot of tools around that for people to talk to one another. There are some other resources out there like Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone and Bruce Patten. It's important to be able to do that. What it boils down to is being genuine and authentic. You're communicating in respectable ways. What are some of the tools you have provided to help board members do that in organizations you work with? Jeb: I'm familiar with Crucial Conversations. Is that a similar framework to what you're talking about? Russell: Yes, they are different. Jeb: Crucial Conversations is wonderful training. I have done that a couple times. I think that's great training. It's a little extensive for a full board to go through. In my experience, I have a background in design thinking. It's a framework that people-centered. It's empathy-based. It's all about starting with the problem. Trying to create a consensus around what the problem is, not what the solution is. There is a lot of different exercises that come from that, different ways that you can facilitate whole and small group exercises. You can do research. There is a whole toolkit that my previous company SmallBox used in our work with nonprofits and boards. For instance, organizational values, which is a part of what the board needs to do. They need to be a part of that values conversation. Mission, vision, those conversations as well. Then you get into strategic planning. There are tools around that from the design thinking background that are helpful for that. Working with the United Way board here in town, we recently redesigned their entire board governance approach. It started with working in small groups to bring in ideas and socialize ideas with the larger board to then refine those, and take those back to leadership, and put them into a plan. I follow that approach, which is more organic. I do think there is good tools out there. My background and training is more in that design thinking framework, which is more custom to the situation. Russell: Custom solution is different. Everyone is different. Everyone on the board is different. What are some challenges in making a board run efficiently that you've seen across various types of organizations, some of the universal ones? Jeb: Meetings. Time management. Managing the agenda, managing the conversations, making sure that people are staying on topic. You don't have people grandstanding. Every board has someone who loves to hear themselves talk. There have been times where it's been me. I love to hear myself talk. But having the chair or the executive director, it's best when it's the chair, be an active facilitator and have some facilitation training, so they learn how to bring in others, make sure everyone has that safe space to be heard. I think that's critical in a productive board experience. Everything about the board is that meeting. Like you said, the parking lot conversations, that starts to happen a lot when the dysfunction of that meeting deepens. All of that stuff ripples out. You have phone calls and emails. It cascades when that meeting is ineffective. Hugh: I'm a conductor. Especially the better they are, every ensemble rehearses for every performance. We don't rehearse. Some of the stuff you're talking about is how we get better at what we do. In a sense, rehearsals, I'd like to share with you sometime later. Meetings are the #1 killer of teams. I have a whole piece that says the agenda is the killer of productivity. Agendas don't use agendas for rehearsals; we use deliverables. We can accomplish. Goals for the session. We focus on outcomes. That is a reframing. I see everything as a rehearsal. I'm sorry. Jeb: Sure, I can relate to that. Hugh: There are so many things you've hit on that are big-deal things that we have to be selective here. I want to go back to this board governance. Russell, he threw a zinger in there that had fire in the name. Did you hear that? About governance and board members. Jeb: Playing with fire. Russell: Playing with fire, yeah. Hugh: Expand on that a little bit. Not having ONC insurance, DNC insurance, Arizona missions not having- Russell: Directors and offices liability insurance policies. It's critical to protect yourself and to keep the structures separate. Compliance is a big deal when it comes to running these organizations. There is a lot of documentation that is required. Have you found that boards warm up to the challenge of keeping all of that in order? Jeb: Absolutely. I just recently joined a board. A week later, the board resigned, not because I joined the board, but because of issues in the organization. I was the last board member standing. This was an experience. Part of it was because the insurance had not been taken care of. There were other issues and lapse that were not being brought to the board's attention. It was a two-way street. The leadership in the organization wasn't doing its job, but neither was the board. The board needs to push to get clarity on those things. Part of why that happened is they did push. It was a bit of a mess. I found myself moving into a chair role when I expected to be a board member, and having to help the organization, and still now, get back up on its feet. It's been a crash course in a lot of the things we're talking about. When I'm talking about playing with fire, I am speaking from experience. That's fire. You're talking about vehicle insurance and transporting kids. You have to think about that stuff. The board is on the hook. The buck stops with the board. The board is the boss. I don't think board members really get that when they sign up. I don't think they really get that. I think they would take their jobs more seriously if they understood the consequences of not doing their jobs. I think that's a real failure in leadership because they're too timid about that conversation. Russell: That baptism by fire when I worked with the Micmac nation is the same baptism by fire you're talking about. In terms of documentation, there are so many things that have to be kept in one place. Does your platform help with that? Does it help to deal with governing documents and creating a space where people can collaborate and have these conversations? That is another common problem. I have my favorite tools I use to work with. I have different clients who like different tools, some of which I'm not crazy about. It's about getting things done, so I have learned to use a number of different things. That's not always conducive to good communication and keeping things working. Talk about if you could address the importance of organizing all of your compliance documents and processes. Jeb: That is what Boardable does. Thanks for the pitch there. The problem that we see with a lot of boards is that nothing is one place. When a new board member rolls on, they're forwarding them emails. The mess grows and expands. Having all documents, everything that you're doing in one place so that no matter what, you've got it right here on the app. You have your directory, your documents. You can call someone from here. You have your groups, agendas, minutes, and voting, everything you need in one place, your notifications, tasks, follow-up items. And you integrate with all those other tools. That is the key here. You have to integrate with Google Docs and Dropbox and Microsoft and calendars and emails because people won't stop using those tools. They shouldn't. They work. We have to meet them where they are. A lot of what we focus on is accepting the board experience as it is and coming alongside and bringing value and augmenting what they're doing. Hugh: What you don't know is the guy who comes knocking at the door from the IRS was Russell. He knows about compliance. He wants to see your corporate record book. I find many, if any, executives who understand what the function of the record book is and what should be in there. Is that part of your program as well? Jeb: Yes, it automatically organizes all those documents into folders. You can lock and control them depending on committee access. All those meetings are automatically archived historically. Who was in attendance? Who wasn't? You create a report that shows everything that happened. When the IRS does knock at the door, you can show them exactly what you did, how you voted. There is the agenda from that meeting, whatever you need to show them. Fortunately, I have not been audited yet. Hopefully that doesn't happen here soon. But when Russell does knock at my door, I'm confident at least with the organizations I'm involved with and our customers they'll be ready. Hugh: You're audit-ready. Jeb: I hope so. I'll ask my CFO and see if he has the answers. Hugh: Russell is on a good track here with compliance. I do think most are blind to this. That's why you got us on here. This sounds like valuable stuff, doesn't it, Russ? Russell: It is. As far as having processes, a lot of the problems revolve around people using a different language in addition the tools they think differently. There are certain things that have to be in place. if you can create a way where people have that common understanding and can access stuff. Brendan Burchard talks about creating different products, courses, approaching consulting, and he talks about tools. One of the things he says is if it's not easy to access, understand, and use, people aren't going to bother with it. Meetings get complicated. A tool like that, Hugh's publication on conducting a successful meeting, because it really breaks things down and makes it manageable. Jeb: Absolutely. If you can't use the tool, if you can't log in, if it's frustrating or confusing, give it 10, 15, maybe 30 seconds, and at that point, you are going back to what you know. This is where things get hard. The organization often caters to the board. They want the board to be taken care of. If the board says this isn't working for me, whatever it is, they will print out the packet. They will do whatever they need to do to help the board. It's good and bad. It's good to take care of your board. The board needs that information. I think it's also good sometimes that organization needs to push the board more than they do. Too often, they cater and capitulate to the board instead of pushing the board to do best practices in terms of how they want to communicate. They have to give them tools that are easy to use. That is super critical. Hugh: Jeb, let's take a case study. Is that okay? A real, live situation. I am the president of the board, the board chair, of the Lynchburg Symphony. We have 24 board members. A third rotate each year. It's a three-year gig. We have a moving and family situation, so we have 10 new members coming in. A week and a half from now, we are doing our strategy, some people would call it a retreat, but we are going to charge. We are not retreating. It's a work session, which is different from a board meeting. We have a planning session. I have highly skilled board members that are committee chairs of development, finance, events, and concert programs. We are mapping the future. Our proprietary strategy is called a solution map. Where do you want to be? How are you going to get there? it's the basic rubric of a strategic plan, but more nonprofit-friendly. We are doing our planning session. I already met with all the chairs and the new conductor. We are starting a new era with a new conductor. I am succeeding a president who put a lot of systems in place. I am inheriting a sound board and a sound organization, financially and structurally, and we are moving it up. What do you think is the most important things that I should do with incoming board members as we strategize on our work and integrating our work together as we plan for the next five years, and specifically the next year? Jeb: I think that the onboarding piece is critical. We talked about that earlier. Making sure they know what is expected of them and what their role is. I think that's important. Assigning them a board mentor is important as well if that is something you can do. That can give them navigational help on a peer level. The third thing is getting them a committee assignment as soon as possible. They need to feel like they have a role on the board. The board meeting, they will feel they are observers for a while. They may ask some questions, but they may not feel they have a really defined role. That onboarding, setting roles and responsibilities, getting them a mentor, getting them on a committee are three initial things you can do that will increase their engagement and make them feel like they are a part of something. That is the initial phase. Hugh: Russell, I did all of those. Jeb: Good job! Russell: Yes, you did. Building a board book. When people go through our leadership symposium, it's a board book. It lays out a big-picture overview of some things you do. He has other materials he's built that could actually take leaders through a reflective process. Having what we call a board book has the information that people need. Setting up some training around that and having them go through that, as well as having a mentor, is great. As you are bringing somebody on board, you want to find out what lights their fire. What is something they just can't wait to get out of bed to do? They are going to have some ownership around that. They will have ideas around that. Good leaders build better leaders. You set the parameters for success, and you turn them loose and let them run with it. Jeb: That's a great point. Tapping into what they're passionate about is critical. That is often a conversation before they join the board, but it can be an ongoing conversation of what is the why. What is the why here? There has to be some alignment between their why and the organization's why. If that is missing, they're not going to be engaged. There will be misalignment. That leads to dysfunction, which can be challenging. Hugh: I like that word, “dysfunction.” Russell: Especially if they are effective and highly visible, everyone accepts Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is running after them to get them on their board of directors. That's fine if they have the bandwidth to do it. What I have seen on occasion is they are not clear with what they want to do or accomplish. They're not sure what they want from the board members. Typically, they find people who they love and adore, who they're good friends with, who support them. They don't always take that inventory of exactly what they need, and can't always define that commitment. What are some of the things you have seen? How have you been able to address those types of issues? Jeb: In terms of aligning their commitment? Russell: And crafting a set of expectations. Jeb: To be honest, I haven't done that as much as I should have. The previous time, I was chairing two nonprofits I co-founded, and they were like start-ups. It was a bootstraps situation, where the founders became the board members. We added from there. With the board I am rejuvenating right now, we are in triage mode. We are trying to get up and running. With the larger board I serve on, the United Way board, they are much more intentional about this experience. It's been good to watch from that perspective. I have a financial commitment to the board I'm making, which is important. A lot of boards have that. The more mature and functional board, which this one certainly is, they know what they're doing, they're intentional. They have a full-time administrator working with the board. There are clear commitments. I sign things every year. They talk about it a lot. They have one-on-one sessions with me every year to talk about my giving, where I'm going with my life. How is United Way going to be a part of that? I have seen that be effective. I see it more with my customers, but I am speaking from my own experience. I have been more on the start-up side of boards. When a board is starting up, the start-up phase is different. You have the start-up, the growth, and the cruise. The cruise control one is where United Way is. It's healthy, big, knows what it's doing. Different dynamics, different needs. It changes as the board changes. Russell: A lot of tools we put together here at SynerVision address organizations at different stages. What I love about the model Hugh has created is it's perfect for somebody who is starting. If you can structure everything right, which isn't always the case, you're going to have fewer problems later. Hugh: Thank you for highlighting that. What I see, Jeb, is we do the people part of this. What's missing is all the stuff you highlighted. The plethora of emails that is a cancer. I remember when we didn't have email, when we didn't have the Internet, we didn't have cell phones or texting. We keep adding things, but we never take anything away. People are just bombarded. Sometimes they don't read anything. You've covered so many important topics here. Russell, you never saw this happen, but I have seen this happen. Board members come unprepared to a meeting. Russell: That happens? Jeb: I've never seen that happen. Russell: When did that start? Jeb: Shocking. Hugh: They're busy people. They leave a board meeting and get sucked into the vortex of life. The next thing they know, there is another meeting coming up at 6:00. What was I supposed to do? It's the engagement piece that keeps people tuned in between meetings. One of my missions in meetings is we teach people that we don't work at meetings, we work in between meetings. We check in. it's an accountability system. A planning session is different. A regular board meeting, we report on what we've done, and we define what we're going to do and look for those points of collaboration and collision that we want to work on. Speak about those topics. Jeb: You're totally right. It's the in-between that is so important. Board members think of their board services as simply the meeting. Here I am, I'm in the meeting. There are some boards where that is truly their role. That goes back to defining roles and responsibilities. If all they are doing is being advisory, or simply sitting there to listen and decide, that is one thing. A healthy board has projects and activities running in between meetings. To do that, there is a lot of management. You have to set that expectation up front of what kind of hours you are committing a month when you join this board. Very few boards have that conversation. They talk about the board meetings. They talk maybe about committees. Talking about the hours you will commit and spend. This is two or three hours a week, we expect you to come in for a meeting, etc. We redesigned the committees at United Way, and it has been a fascinating experience. We are moving more toward work groups. More ad hoc. Is this getting you excited? Hugh: Oh yeah. There is the old adage that committees are a place where good ideas go to die. Jeb: I respect that committees are still the primary vehicle for a lot of organizations and our customers. I think there are healthy committees. The idea of being more ad hoc subject matter experts that come together as needed around a problem to solve that problem. Those are being formed as needed. During board meetings, between board meetings. They are reporting back. You have a platform, whether it's Boardable or something else, where they are able to collaborate, share content documents. That creates visibility to others in the organization so that work is not entirely happening in a silo. That makes the work more effective. It multiplies that work. That move is a good one. It gives people something to do. I hate sitting in a committee meeting and feeling like I have nothing to do with what's being talked about. I want to feel like I have some skin in the game. Hugh: Absolutely. Russell, this is music to our ears, isn't it? Russell: This is great stuff. Solution sessions are great because you got to get in there, got to get it done. You don't have time to goof around. Having people with the right information. Understanding the roles and how everybody fits is communication. That is where things slip through the cracks, when somebody says, “I thought you were going to take care of that.” “Didn't we agree you would?” You end up in this back and forth. You definitely want to stay out of that. You want to stay out of finger-pointing as well. What you're doing is too important. Finger-pointing solves no problems. It keeps you away from course-correcting. Hugh: I love it. My meetings always end with an action plan. Who is going to do it? What is the action? To do what? Who is the champion? What is the deadline? It ends up with a communication board. What is the specific message somebody that is not here needs to know? Who was going to tell them? We don't think of those things. We sit around and talk about things to do. Everyone assumes the facilitator will do them. Man, it's been a lot of very helpful content here. What are board ambassadors? I want to ask you two questions. What are board ambassadors? There are groups, governance and financial oversight, which is your board of directors. The symphony has an advisory council. They are just what you said. We ask their advice. And we have advisors at large, people we call from time to time to give us advice. Those are the three sets of people we have connected. But the board of directors is fitting in to the role you are talking about, the group that is responsible for this organization. Are there other entities, besides committees or work groups or project teams, you find are helpful? Jeb: You have YP boards. They are good to create a feeder system for the main board. Young professional boards. They are that group of younger people in their career, in their 20s often, who are rising in their careers. We see that happening more and more with nonprofits. They have YP boards. They can pick from their boards as you see leadership emerge. I like that system. You see who shows up. You see who gets things done. That also gets that age diversity issue, which I think is a real problem with boards. A lot of boards struggle to get those younger board members. It's two things. The younger board members don't have awareness around the opportunity, and I think they are intimidated by it as well. The YP board is a good piece for that. Board ambassadors. That could be more on the emeritus side. Folks who have been on the board for a while, who are no longer in an active role but are still really important connectors in the community, and you want to keep them involved. That is one way to think about it. Perhaps you have a different thought on that term. I'm curious what you're thinking. Hugh: I love that. That's a vacuum in my thinking. We do see a lot of old white guys. We see way too much of that. I have changed the symphony board so far. The 11 days I'm in, it's already a different board. I had a good board to build on, so I'm not saying it was bad before. We are adding some of those elements of diversity. Russell, we have about three minutes for a short question before we go into our sponsor message and give Jeb his last word. Russell: We're talking about bringing youth in. I like the idea of what I call reverse mentoring, where there is this knowledge exchange between generations. I went to a United Veterans Committee Colorado meeting this morning. Lots of gray hair. Yes, the brown guys get gray hair, too. This whole notion of diversity, I had a marvelous week last week helping Carol Carter with GlobalMinded at Be the Solution conference here in Denver. The whole event was about diversity and inclusion. If people don't feel like they are a part of something, they won't participate. That is a serious topic. We have covered that. It might be time for us to do another diversity and inclusion panel, Hugh. That is very important. I am curious as to, and you have been on several boards, what has the composition of your board looked like? What did you need to do to help that along, or make any adjustments to make sure you had the bandwidth of ideas and energy? Jeb: Each board has been unique in this aspect. The Speakeasy was founded by a bunch of white guys. We had to be intentional about diversifying the member base. People who were members of the co-working space, along with the board. Not in a check the box way, but in a legitimate, how do we get real perspectives into this? How do we get women into this? I am proud of where the board is now. It's had three female executive directors in a row. It's had a diverse board consistently. In terms of the board I'm working with now, it's diverse as well. There is a lot of opportunity to improve here. It's tricky because I think that there aren't natural pathways for people in different demographics to explore board service. I think this is a real challenge, especially in certain populations in Indianapolis. There is no awareness around it whatsoever. We have a three-phase road map: board management, which is the logistical side of it; board engagement, which gets into all the things we talked about in terms of nudging behavior to people saying what they said they will do; and board talent, really trying to give a tool to boards to get that talent, a matrix to see what diversity they have now, what skills they have now. And a marketplace for them to connect with people. We market that marketplace to populations that don't currently think of board service. That is where we are taking the product. This speaks to my desire to create more opportunity for others. I feel like this system is rigged. There is an opportunity to use technology and marketing and content to bring others into it. A board role can be transformative in the life of a person. It can broaden their network and connections. It can open doors that wouldn't have been opened. It can lead to careers and opportunities that were not available to them before that role. To bring more of those roles to people of different backgrounds, not just of my background, but all kinds of backgrounds. I am a privileged person. I grew up with parents who volunteered with nonprofits. This is the culture I came from. It's what I know. To give this experience to others is where we see the company going. Hugh: Thank you on behalf of nonprofits for doing this. This work is so important. We will be having more conversations. Russell, I can smell some cross-support here, maybe more conversations about our alignment. We have things and you have things that would be better together. *Sponsored by Wordsprint* Jeb, give us the top traits of an effective board member. What thought do you want to leave us with? Then Russell will close us out. Jeb: The seven things I discussed earlier: 1) A board member is prepared for meetings. 2) They are showing up. 3) They are following through. 4) They're volunteering in the organization. 5) They're advocating on behalf of the organization. That ambassador piece. 6) They're helping with fundraising. 7) They're donating, writing a check themselves. Those are the seven dimensions that we look at to measure in our product. What was the other question? Hugh: What tip do you have for people? Jeb: I think my #1 tip to board leaders is if you are not comfortable having hard conversations, whether it's the difficult or crucial conversations, take some time to do some training. Learn how to have those conversations in a way that is productive. I believe the difference between a good and a great organization is a lot of hard conversations. That skillset is important to build as a leader. Russell: Jeb Banner, it's been a remarkable hour. Thank you so much for coming to share your wisdom with us. 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TURS: The TellUS Radio Show with Christa Nehls - Today's Guest: Dr David Gruder
A lot of authors, coaches, and speakers start setting up their careers without taking the time to build on their foundational tools. They jump into monetizing without building an audience. Psychological business strategist David Gruder discusses the concept of sequencing in your business and how it works. Sequencing is, in the context of business of […]
A lot of authors, coaches, and speakers start setting up their careers without taking the time to build on their foundational tools. They jump into monetizing without building an audience. Psychological business strategist David Gruder discusses the concept of sequencing in your business and how it works. Sequencing is, in the context of business of any kind, is doing the right things in the right order in order to get the maximum results from the things that you’re doing. David speaks, trains, and consults leaders, executives, entrepreneurs, and social change catalysts, helping professionals and self-developers. Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Promote, Profit, Publish Community today: superbrandpublishing.com Promote, Profit, Publish on Facebook Promote, Profit, Publish on YouTube Follow Juliet on Twitter Follow Juliet on LinkedIn Take the Quiz!
In this episode of Inside Out Empowerment, host Joshua Nussbaum sits down with speaker, author and mentor David Gruder PhD for an interesting look at The Faulty Happiness Formula vs The Sustainable Happiness Formula. During their conversation they discuss many things, including the adaptation of Dr. David's teaching and training methods with the advancements in technology over time. But the focus of the conversation really is a look at today's culture and the problem people are having with their endeavors to "have it all" which fuels greed for more money and power. The conversation is a look at our culture's wrong thinking and an evaluation of the formula Dr. David believes can bring true, sustainable happiness. SUMMARY OF TAKE AWAYS -Dr. Gruder’s background -How today’s technology has impacted Dr. Gruder’s career -Defining the faulty happiness formula -Describing the American dream -Breakdown of the pursuit of happiness -Defining the sustainable happiness formula -Relating your childhood to the sustainable happiness formula -The best ways to get show love to your children -Describing the pandora box -Steps towards self development NOTABLE QUESTIONS/LESSONS -Tell me what you do right now at this moment. (1:13) -How have you, personally and professionally, been impacted since the tides have changed? (3:28) -What is the faulty happiness formula? (10:17) -When happiness gets redefined as excessive consumption, that’s where we have a faulty happiness formula. (15:12) -Personal freedom got redefined as conformity. (15:24) -The sustainable happiness formula is the drive to be who we really are, the drive to bond with others, and the drive to influence the ones around us (18:28) -What are steps people can take to be more integral as it pertains to these three elements?(21:10) -What registers as love for a child are connection, validation, and emotional safety. (26:48) -When we most need love is when we’re experiencing a life experience that we don’t know how to digest. (28:04) -Feelings are never buried dead. They’re always buried alive. (41:25) -How does somebody work towards self development? (47:56)
Dr. David Gruder, a Psychologist and the President of Integrity Culture Systems, joins Tatiana Berindei to talk about understanding men and the journey of elevating the divine masculine. His mission is to make happiness sustainable, collaboration productive, integrity profitable, and society healthy. He is known for his broad talents, integrative mind, unquenchable passion, huge [...]
#EvolveYourMoneyRelationship with David Gruder, PhD [Part 3-3] Want lots of MONEY? Then time to call out the giant "Money-Elephant" in the room! #BeFEARless #FaceEverythingAndRise Put on your galoshes, cuz it's getting deep (I had to pull out my Jimmy Choo fishing waders for this one ~ bahaahahh!) We must shine the light on the Not-Enough-Money myths that are blinding us from #MoneyShadowFreedom. Failure is my best teacher! My greatest life altering debacle was my FAILED suicide attempt. "I had reached the end of my rope, it was do, or die...and, in my reality---a matter of life and death. So, miraculously, I chose LIFE." ~ #KarenLoveLee However, not without massive resistance, I was willing to tough it out by committing to learning what I did not know was "in shadow," by finally taking full #SelfResponsibility. David brilliantly sums up our shared sentiments based on our personal experiences, "My clarity, innovations and contribution to human potential came from my being in pain over an issue in myself, and going out on a journey to find resources that helped to an extent, but not far enough..." Eventually realizing, "The only resource I could depend on to get me where I wanted to go was my RELATIONSHIP with source. And then, wisdom coming through me that's smarter than me." Profoundly relating, I was in awe. This is almost identical to what I went through, which confirms what I truly believe ~ the beings we attract are mirror-reflections to and for us, as opportunities for greater growth and wisdom. "Thank you, David, for being this wise and relatable reflection." Part 3 is so rich in nutrients to nourish your #MoneyRelationship that you're going to want to listen to this one over and over again! Dr. David drops this mind-blowing #TruthBomb, "The faulty formula is 'Money Creates Wealth.'" Having learned and lived by this code of ethics to a fault---being enslaved to his practice, he neglected himself, creating a cycle of depletion, stress and destruction. Humbly admitting, "...that was my contribution to the demise of my first marriage." I interject with "sounds like drowning, which is what I felt like after my sister died." David depicts more accurately, "I was pretending to tread water, while I was actually in the process of drowning." This is all about acknowledging all the elephants in the room without any self-judgement. Using past experiences of what did not serve us by transforming who we are, our behaviors and actions to evolve and elevate every aspect of life. Part 3-3: Monetization Mastery — Replacing Myths & Shadow Programming With the Missing Keys: Why affirmations aren’t nearly enough. Identifying your M-Wealths. Taking charge of your life energy allocations. Evaluating your monetization decisions. Filling your monetization gaps. Dr. David Gruder, PhD, DCEP | Integrity Culture Systems™ | www.DrGruder.com 11-award-winning multidisciplinary psychologist who has provided keynotes & training programs on 3 continents in 8 countries for 40+ years. Trailblazer in integrated self-development, integrity restoration, leader effectiveness, business success, culture architecture, and ethical ways to market, sell, & embody personal power. GRACIOUS & ETERNAL THANKS FOR DAVID'S RAVE REVIEW: "Karen is a top-flight podcast host. She cares so much about her listeners that she devoted an unusual amount of time to understand both my work and me deeply enough to be certain that interviewing me would be highly valuable for her listeners. During the show she brought our discussion to a far deeper level of understanding, and a far greater amount of transparent self-disclosure, than any of the other multiple hundred media interviews I’ve given. What a class act Karen is. Her rare level of devotion to serving her listeners is truly precious. Consider yourself blessed to have discovered her. I sure do." ~ Dr. David Gruder, PhD, "America's Integrity Expert" www.KarenLoveLee.com PLEASE CONTACT KarenLoveLee@gmail.com #KarenLoveLee #KarenLoveLeeTV #KarenLoveLeePodcast #ThePowerOfSelfEVOLution #KarenLoveLeeEmpowersYOU #EmpoweringYouThroughUs
#EvolveYourMoneyRelationship with David Gruder, PhD [Part 2-3] Our relationship to money is now starting to heat up! Why? Because the more we delve into our relationship to our SELF, and the truest "Crystal Ball," our Inner-Child, the more telling our relationship to "Money," or lack thereof. We can only connect dots of wisdom looking backwards. Therefore, making these profound connections to our scorned childhood experiences, which lurk "In Shadow," shall set us free. #SelfFreedom As I encourage Dr. David to share on the deepest level, as holding back on my show is prohibited ~ lol! He brings on the woo-woo! As far as I'm concerned the woo-ier the better!! This, by far, is the bulk of my own "Wealth," referring to David's eye-opening tagline, "Wealth Creates Money." David shares his near death experience at age 3 that paved the way to his own lack of wealth rearing it's ugly head decades later, simply because of what was hidden in his shadows.... Uncanny yet inspiriting, I recall similar supernatural experiences that informed my own self-sabotaging patterns, which fed right into our like-ways---as David eloquently professes to being an "Addicted giver and phobic receiver." "Yikes, I'm not liking what I see in the mirror! However, the only reason to keep looking heartily into the Mirror-of-SELF is because auspiciously, the virtue that emerges is breath-taking." ~ #KarenLoveLee, #SelfLoveSpecialist Part 2-3: Money Shadow Freedom Money Shadow Programming — Getting Free: Reversed Sourcing Entitlement Scripts Money Risks Spiritual Reciprocity Blocking BONUS: Dr. David brilliantly enlightens us with, "The Law of Reciprocity is more powerful than the 'Law of Attraction.'" Dr. David Gruder, PhD, DCEP | Integrity Culture Systems™ | www.DrGruder.com 11-award-winning multidisciplinary psychologist who has provided keynotes & training programs on 3 continents in 8 countries for 40+ years. Trailblazer in integrated self-development, integrity restoration, leader effectiveness, business success, culture architecture, and ethical ways to market, sell, & embody personal power. RAVE REVIEW "Karen is a top-flight podcast host. She cares so much about her listeners that she devoted an unusual amount of time to understand both my work and me deeply enough to be certain that interviewing me would be highly valuable for her listeners. During the show she brought our discussion to a far deeper level of understanding, and a far greater amount of transparent self-disclosure, than any of the other multiple hundred media interviews I’ve given. What a class act Karen is. Her rare level of devotion to serving her listeners is truly precious. Consider yourself blessed to have discovered her. I sure do." ~ Dr. David Gruder, PhD, "America's Integrity Expert" www.KarenLoveLee.com PLEASE CONTACT KarenLoveLee@gmail.com #KarenLoveLee #KarenLoveLeeTV #KarenLoveLeePodcast #ThePowerOfSelfEVOLution #KarenLoveLeeEmpowersYOU #EmpoweringYouThroughUs
Evolve Your Money Relationship with David Gruder, PhD [Part 1-3] When it’s time to grow and level up, seek experts, specialists & professionals who know first-hand by facing, enduring and persevering through their own humbling experiences of failure; who persistently self-reflect, risk, reinvent, restructure and execute; and are willing to be #RealRawRelatable in the name of EMPOWERING YOU! My special guest, Dr. David, who refers to himself as a “Recovering psychologist,” which is what sealed the deal to collaborate on a phenomenal podcast series simply because I resonated to his #WordsOfWisdom! This followed hearing his brilliant sound bite, “We live our lives at the level of our wounds, not our wishes.” POW ~ right to my gut! I intuitively felt that I must connect with him, not only for his spot-on messaging, but most impactfully, his beingness….In short, I dig his vibe!!!!! I am honored to associate with extraordinary people, but when an “11-Award Winning Multidisciplinary Psychologist & Best-Selling Author; Business Consultant, specializing in Leader Effectiveness, Enterprise Success, and Culture Architecture & International Speaker/Trainer,” is candidly transparent and humble---willing to be an "Open Book," I'm more enthralled than ever! Refreshing authenticity, like Dr. David’s, yet atypical in the realm of psychotherapy, is what has made THE difference along my own journey of #SelfEVOLution. And, the very thing that was missing from all of mine, and my clients’ numerous therapists, counselors & mentors. Most notably, just like myself, “The Grudes” is beyond being outside the box -- he rolls without any box! I am a descendant of Chinese royalty, and genius academic Master Degrees/PhD's; Radcliffe, Harvard, Cornell, Princeton, Oxford -- yadda-yadda, yawn!! Though, what was gravely missing was the ability to feel interrelated, connected and understood... “Yet, despite his breadth of experience, accolades and requests, you won’t find a speaker, trainer, or trusted advisor who is more joyful, approachable, humble, collaborative, and teachable, than Dr. Gruder.” ~ www.DrGruder.com/about My whole “Schtick” is transforming and transcending the UNconscious childhood wounds that ultimately stop us from sustaining our fullest-purest potential...The only thing that saved and catapulted my life! So, when I heard David say, “Wounds,” I immediately knew, “This is the guy!” Ironically, when asked what podcast topic he’d like to delve into, he blurts out, “Money Shadow Freedom,” illuminating misconceptions in shadow, giving way to understanding how “Wealth Creates Money,” NOT the other way around. Ta-dah! A topic after my own heart, and exactly what I have been hyper-focusing on in my immediate life for the past several months. Ladies and gentlemen, “Ask, and thou shall receive!” And, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” The mysteriously astounding subconscious phenomenon is that consciously, this was not even remotely on my radar. BAM! This is the LAW OF ATTRACTION at its best!!!! Buckle up, and let’s ride this confronting, yet exhilarating roller-coaster, EVOLVE YOUR MONEY RELATIONSHIP. “There isn’t anything more exquisitely divine than our primary Relationship-to-SELF, in which all other RELATIONSHIPS are based.” ~ Karen Love Lee, #SelfLoveSpecialist BONUS: David shares his Success Secret Formula ~ Download and listen NOW! Part 1-3: Money Shadow Freedom Money Myth-Busting — Waking Up From the Money Spell: Cultural Money Polarization (Wealth versus Integrity) Faulty definitions of money and capitalism. False conceptions about what causes greed. The myth that money is anti-spiritual. Dr. David Gruder, PhD, DCEP | Integrity Culture Systems™ | www.DrGruder.com "Award-winning psychologist who has provided keynotes & training programs on 3 continents in 8 countries for 40+ years. Trailblazer in integrated self-development, integrity restoration, leader effectiveness, business success, culture architecture, and ethical ways to market, sell, & embody personal power." www.KarenLoveLee.com PLEASE CONTACT KarenLoveLee@gmail.com #KarenLoveLee #KarenLoveLeeTV #KarenLoveLeePodcast #ThePowerOfSelfEVOLution #KarenLoveLeeEmpowersYOU
Kurt Francom currently lives in Woods Cross, Utah with his lovely wife Alanna. They are blessed to have two children (girl and boy). He enjoys drawing caricatures and editorial cartoons, basketball, reading, and college football. Kurt has served as a full-time missionary (California Sacramento), an elders quorum president, executive secretary, bishopric counselor, high priest group leader, bishop and 1st counselor in a stake presidency. More Information at https://leadinglds.org Interview Transcript Hugh Ballou: This is another version of Orchestrating Success. I have Kurt Francom on here. Kurt and I are passionate about leadership, and we discovered each other on LinkedIn. We went back and forth and had a conversation, and we decided we wanted to share information with our mutual audiences. Kurt, welcome to Orchestrating Success. Kurt Francom: Hey Hugh, it’s a pleasure to be here. I love talking with other podcasters because people just don’t understand the struggle. I celebrate your success with the podcast. Hugh: People find me, and I don’t know how they find me but they do. You and I come from a similar background. I served mainline Protestant churches for 40 years and rallied people in music ministry, creating ensembles. In my church in Atlanta, Georgia, I was a staff person. You do leadership in the LDS church. In big Presbyterian Methodist churches, it’s a paid position. I discovered that 90% of my job as music director was music, and the rest of it made music possible. I learned to create systems and influence people. I’d love to swap stories with you, but before we go on to the questions and digging into your knowledge base, tell our listeners about yourself. I prefer for my guests to speak about themselves rather than me trying to read a boring bio. Talk a little bit about your background and why you’re doing this. Kurt: Sure. At the end of the day, I’m just a typical Mormon boy from Salt Lake City. I grew up in a city just outside Salt Lake City called West Valley City. Born and raised in the LDS church. Jumped through the typical Mormon hoops. Served a mission in Sacramento, California. I had the opportunity of learning Spanish because it feels like Northern Mexico there some days. I had the great pleasure of serving among the Spanish-speaking population there and sharing our message. After my mission of two years, I came home and a few years later got married. I was dumped in church leadership. I don’t mean that in a negative sense. In the LDS church, in the Mormon faith, it’s all lay ministry. Whether you are a Ph.D., plumber, or mechanic, anybody in the local congregation or ward can be called as the bishop or the presiding priest of that area. I moved into an area that was in the inner city of Salt Lake and had no inclination or desire to necessarily lead the congregation. But a few years into that, I was called in at the age of 28, which most bishops serve when they are in their late 30’s, early 40’s. They asked me to be the bishop at 28 years old and to preside over about 500 people in the Salt Lake area in our ward. I knew nothing about leadership. I had served with other bishops. I had been an elder’s quorum president over a smaller group of some of the priesthood men. There I was expected to stand and be a dynamic leader and meet with individuals and counsel with them and recommend professional therapy or counsel them on maybe a difficult marriage they are in, the typical things maybe a clergy is found doing. That is when I realized that maybe there could be some more resources out there that could help LDS leaders. I would go into a Barnes and Noble and see bookshelves filled with incredible, dynamic books that would help people in the business world who were striving to lead. I wanted to take some of those principles like Stephen Covey, another famous Mormon leader. Stephen Covey, Liz Wiseman, a lot of these who have written great books, take these principles and apply them to LDS church leadership. That spurred on a podcast I produce around leadership in the context of the Mormon faith. Then we turned it into a nonprofit called Leading LDS, where we are striving to help lay leaders in the church enhance their ability and capacity as they face these difficult situations. Hugh: That’s pretty profound. I understand that from my many years serving in church. You call it a ward. It’s like a parish for a Catholic or an Episcopal church. And it is run by volunteers basically, right? Kurt: Yeah, absolutely. The neat thing is wherever you move, you are assigned to a ward. I can’t just shop and find a pastor or bishop that resonates with me or likes me. If you are in a geographical area, the church determines what parish or ward you will attend. You go there and everybody takes their turn. I served as bishop for about five years, and then somebody else served. After him, somebody else will serve for about five to six years, which is the average. It creates this unique leadership dynamic. Nobody is paid. Nobody really wants to serve. But if they are asked, we believe these callings and assignments come from inspiration and revelation. We feel as we are called by God and step up and serve as we are asked to do. It is interesting to see that responsibility passed around. We are all volunteers that work a 40-50 hour week in our day job, and in the weekends and evenings, we are acting as clergy and doing our best at it. Hugh: That’s amazing. You got called into a leadership position. Did I hear you say you didn’t know leadership? Kurt: Well, I had just graduated college with a marketing degree. I had served as a bishop counselor, as an assistant to the bishop before that and on different smaller auxiliaries within the local ward. This was a whole new experience of being the go-to guy when it comes to life problems or collecting tithing funds and standing and delivering sermons that are going to impact individuals in a positive way and help them progress through the gospel. Hugh: When people ask the famous question, “Are you a born leader, or did you learn leadership?” what is your answer to that? Kurt: I definitely learned leadership. There are certain experiences that were put in my life that helped me develop and catch on to some of these skills. After being bishop, I then served in what is called a stake presidency. A stake is a group of wards. I was over a handful of about seven or eight bishops and their wards, helping mentor those bishops and helping them serve. It is remarkable to see those new bishops come in. The vast majority would claim they were definitely not born leaders, and they are really looking for help in developing that. In my experience, it was something through experience. I made a lot of mistakes. I don’t claim to be the Mormon leadership guru by any means. There are people much more fit for that title. I am grateful for these experiences, that other leaders took a chance on me when I had very little experience. But it has helped me develop personally in a way that is remarkable and has really blessed my life. Hugh: We are talking to business leaders on this particular podcast. When I talk to business leaders, I tell them I developed my methodology in a mega-church. They say, “Hey, why is that relevant to business?” My response is, “If you can do it in a church, you can certainly do it in business because it’s harder when you are working with volunteers.” You can respond to that paradigm, but what can business leaders learn from your LDS model? Kurt: I would encourage people, regardless if you have a connection to the LDS or Mormon faith, to maybe go visit a church and just admire what is happening there. We are a leadership laboratory. Imagine that you’re in your position as a manager, as a CEO, or an executive, but imagine you are limited to a certain geographical area or neighborhood. You can only hire people within that area. As a bishop, if I need a new organist or relief society president, who is the female leader over the women’s organization, I couldn’t send out a plea for resumes. I could only go to a handful of selected streets in an area and say, “What do I got? Who can step up to this and really lead?” Oftentimes, there isn’t obvious choices for a lot of these positions. As a secular leader, these are interesting paradigms to put yourself in and say, “If I couldn’t fire anybody,” because we can’t fire anybody. We can change their calling maybe, but we can’t say, “Hey, listen, this isn’t working out. Go away.” We have to put them somewhere else in our organization to serve. Of course, people get offended, but we want them to love attending church, not feel like, “Oh man, they fired me from this calling.” Imagine in your leadership if you could not only fire anybody, if you could only select from a very small demographic, how would you lead differently? Pondering that and visiting an LDS church and seeing how that works and trading those responsibilities around. I was a leader for five years. Now it’s your turn. Now I sit in the pews and look at this person who was maybe my assistant, and now I consider him my leader. Just these small leadership dynamics in the LDS faith and the lay ministry that will really cause a leader to pause and reevaluate maybe how they lead and how they can excel with these limitations and even outside that, recognize the limitations you have in your organization and see them as strengths and how you can apply them as better strengths. Hugh: We do have a lot of listeners that run small businesses. They are economically limited as well as geographically limited many, many times. That paradigm works really well. Your business is outside of the Mormon Church. You do this as a volunteer. But Leading LDS is your nonprofit that you teach leadership with? Kurt: Exactly. Leading LDS is a separate third-party organization that is supplementing the resources of leadership development for the LDS church. When I was called as a bishop, I was given a handbook and a pat on the back and was told good luck, and away I went. We are trying to connect some of these resources to those lay leaders that are treading water and just need some ideas and thoughts. A bishop in Maine may be doing something different than a bishop in Texas, and I help share those ideas by interviewing them on the podcast or sharing resources and tools they are using within those local wards. Hugh: I will put a link in, but tell us what your podcast is called. Kurt: It’s called Leading LDS. Hugh: It’s the same. I do have lots of Mormon friends. I would say they all are high performers. They are very serious about what they are doing. I also find that my Mormon friends are very astute businesspeople. There are attributes of the Mormon culture that are kind, focused, and serious about what I’m doing. It’s important work. Is that all tied to your spiritual calling? Kurt: You know, I would hate to take away their grit and hard work of going through schooling and developing that. But in the LDS faith, when I was 19 years old, it’s cultural norm for these young men and women to go on missions. I was dropped in Sacramento, and I had never experienced homesickness like I did at that time. I really had to step up and look at myself and say, I can either flourish or shrink in this situation. There is a great book called The Mormon Way of Doing Business, which came out 10 years ago. It talks about David Neeleman, who started JetBlue, and David Checketts, who was the president of the New York Knicks, and some of these other LDS Mormon individuals who have had great business success. A lot of that is attributed to not only their Mormon mission as young men and women when they really had to step up and define themselves as an individual. Also, when you return, you are still asked to lead in various capacities. If you are a manager, CEO, or other executive and you happen to know that somebody is LDS, you should ask them, “Have you ever been an elder president? What sort of leadership have you held in your local ward? How has that developed you?” You may find out characteristics about that individual that can maybe help you better utilize them in the capacities in their secular job. Hugh: Fascinating. I was remembering my work at a 12,000-member church in Atlanta, Georgia. I worked with 750 people in music ministry, all of whom were volunteers. Multiple events to plug into every week. We were on national TV and local TV, etc. The pressure was pretty high to motivate people to show up. When I got there, somebody told me they had lost 200 members in the adult choir. That was like your Mormon Tabernacle Choir losing your core singers and having a handful left. Your choir is bigger, but still. The critical mass, and having 35 people to build from. You have this big cavernous place to make sound. It was an uphill battle. I worked with executives, CEOs from major companies, who were in the choirs, who were in the committees, who were in the leadership of the church. I earned their respect because I could motivate people to follow a track and get things done. I’m curious when I hear people in the MLM industry, whether they have contract labor, people who aren’t really in their employ, say, “Oh, I can’t tell them what to do because it’s their own business.” I had a whole bunch of people that weren’t in business that did the directive we inspired. We created the compelling reason for what we’re doing. So I got a lot of respect from CEOs because I could motivate people by influence, not by power of position, which, to me, is one of the attributes of transformational leadership. You might be familiar with the works of Burns and Bass who in the ‘80s developed this concept of transformational leadership, which is like an orchestra or choir. It’s building a culture and influencing that culture to function at a higher level. I say back to you that I influence business leaders because of methodology and influence. From your side, business leaders coming into the laboratory that you suggested, is that kind of a learning experience that business leaders could expect? Kurt: As I was preparing for this interview with you, Hugh, I put down four principles that maybe a secular leader or a manager in their everyday life can learn from LDS leaders and the challenges that we face. One of those is your limitations and strengths. Another one I would say is what would you do if you didn’t have classic leveraging tools of motivation? You couldn’t demote someone, you couldn’t take their salary away, and you couldn’t fire them. They are all volunteers. How do you approach that? We have a fantastic scripture in our doctrine of covenance, which is a fantastic scripture just like the Bible. It says, “No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the leadership, only by persuasion, long suffering, by gentleness, meekness, and by love unfeigned.” It gives you a whole new approach to motivating individuals when you can’t just yank their salary away or give them these harsh consequences that will impact their family life. It’s through this meekness and long suffering, really connecting and getting to know these individuals. Just like servant leadership or transformational leadership, these are all different ways of saying this, but really leading in a way that connects with the individual so they do want to have influence and realize they are a leader themselves. They can have remarkable impact on their local ward or even at work where they have important responsibilities. Hugh: I’ll tell you a funny story. I had a volunteer who was in one of my programs at one of my churches, and it just wasn’t working. I asked them to come in and have an interview. I said, “Let me get somebody else to do this for a while so you can regain control of your life, and then we’ll come back and find another place for you to show your talents.” It was a painful conversation. It was like they were relieved. They said, “Okay.” We had a hug and a parting, and they left. I said, “Now I gotta put my new leaders in place.” I looked at my window, and the first person they met, they were skipping, jumping, and smiling saying, “I got fired from our job!” Kurt: Yep, we have the same dynamic. Hugh: If it ain’t workin’, either in a business context or a volunteer context, everybody knows it. We don’t address it. One of the conflict management pieces I encourage people to embrace is you move toward conflict as soon as it’s there because it doesn’t get better if you don’t address it. Remain calm and address the facts. What is your advice when you have somebody either in business or a volunteer in a charity that it just isn’t working out? From your perspective, what’s your advice on how to deal with changing their job or moving them out of the space? Kurt: Obviously, every leader wants to establish a really healthy culture in their organization. There is nothing more damaging to that organization than a passive-aggressive attitude of, “We appreciate your time serving in this position, but man, do we need you over here passing out the hymn books as people enter. There is nobody else that can do it; you must do it.” This is one thing I preach a lot on Leading LDS. There is nothing more valuable to a leader in my opinion than this ability to effectively communicate on a one-to-one basis. I get questions and situations emailed to me all the time, “I have this difficult person that is in my ward or my primary relief society. What should I do with them?” 90% of the time, you need to have a conversation with them. And if you don’t know how to do that, you need to develop those skills to have that conversation. That is one thing in our culture, a very religious culture, where we feel like, “I am called of God; therefore, I should have these abilities given to me in the moment that I need them to handle these leadership positions.” But it really is up to that leader to take the time to listen to podcasts like Orchestrating Success to develop these skills so that you are an effective leader. It’s not just going to come because they call you a leader. Hugh: Absolutely. What you just described is a triangle relationship. You have that local leader calling you about a third person. There are three people in a relationship, which is neutral. There are triangles that are the basic blocks of human relationships. What that person may have wanted to do is triangle the other person, which is another way of looking at passive aggressive. They want to dump all their energy on you and have you do something about it, which happens in the life of the church. That is the culture that people sometimes unload on a third person about that other person, which doesn’t solve the problem. What you did was undo the triangle and say, “Go face to face. Address the situation. Develop the skills to do that. No, God didn’t download these skills to your hard drive. You need to think about it and faith, God is giving you certain abilities, but He is also giving you the ability to think and speak the truth. Hall said, “Speak the truth in love.” We dodge around it. We hint around it instead of saying, “This isn’t working out. How can we remedy it?” Sometimes, a person will want to upgrade their skills, and we can mentor them in that. Sometimes they are going to say, “This isn’t working for me either.” They know it, and they may not know how to tell you that they want out of it. I think a direct one-to-one conversation. You want to respond to that paradigm? Kurt: That’s the beauty of it. When you learn how to have these conversations, it’s not like this person is struggling in this calling or assignment and is oblivious to their lack of ability. By having that conversation with love, again, going back to meekness and connecting with that person, they are more likely to say, “I hate failing at this thing, too. Do you have any suggestions of a way I can be better? Or maybe there is a better place for me to be.” Then you don’t have this weird passive-aggressive relationship of, “Remember that time you fired me but we never talked about it?” They move onto the next position where they can maybe flourish, and they still love you as their leader because you took the time to have that interaction and express love to them in a way that will help them flourish elsewhere. Hugh: We’re talking to a business audience in this podcast. There is a lot to learn from being able to manage self and speak clearly in this culture. That question I asked you a while ago, how can business leaders learn, all of this, leadership is leadership. Good leadership is good leadership, no matter where you are. In the context you’re working, it’s more difficult. By the way, in my methodology, when I was inside the church, I developed this paradigm of we’re called to ministry, so why are we calling people volunteers? I don’t know if you call them volunteers or not. I started this initiative in the last church I served where we outlawed the word “volunteer” because we are teaching everybody in our theology that God calls you to Christian service. It’s in conflict to say, “I want to volunteer stuff” rather than saying, “I was called to leadership.” You mentioned servant leadership; that is certainly a title. We adopted the title of “members in ministry,” which worked for the church. It was us in a leadership position. It changed the paradigm of performance. People saw themselves as leaders. We had lots of people doing lots of stuff joyfully because they had a leadership track. It wasn’t the volunteer mentality of showing up and doing the least I can because I am a volunteer. It was a paradigm shift. My bias is we have to let go of some words to be able to let go of the old paradigm and shift to a new one. What is your response to that methodology? Kurt: In the Mormon faith, the nomenclature of these volunteer assignments is it’s my calling. What is your calling? I was just called to this position. I think we have gone too far with it to where we have used it for so long for so many years that it has the same connotation as if we just said volunteer. This goes to when I started Leading LDS; our slogan that I say at the end of each episode is, “Be a leader, not a calling.” Insert whatever word there. “Be a leader, not a volunteer, manager, executive” because in my opinion, leadership is something that you step up to. You’re not always dragged there and told to wear your crown, enjoy it, and be effective. Leadership is something we need to find in each one of our selves and say, “I can have some influence somewhere in the world. Where is it going to be?” For me as a young 28-year-old, I was asked to be a bishop and I thought, Well, I can either flounder or flourish. Not that I was the most successful bishop and there are statues of me anywhere by any means. Nonetheless, I saw it as a calling that is a great opportunity to lead. Leadership is no better than when it’s self-called. Hugh: What is the biggest challenge you see in leadership anywhere? Inside the church, inside a business. What is the biggest challenge in today’s convoluted toxic world today? Kurt: That’s a great question. Many books have been written on that. I would probably change my answer month to month, but most recently, I have been very struck with this topic of the role of shame in organizations, especially more highlighted in religious situations because we go to our chapel every Sunday. There is always this undertone of, You’re not doing enough. You need to be better. Keep the commandments. Be more. Be more. Of course, I want to be part of an organization that is constantly encouraging me to be better. It’s so easy for the adversary we would have in our doctrine to twist that and say, “You know what? You’re just not good enough. Because you’re just not good enough, you’re broken. If you’re broken, you don’t belong here.” That person internalizes that message of, “This system broke me. This church broke me. This organization broke me. I don’t want to work there because they shame me and make me feel less than myself.” There is this subtle balance for a leader to be encouraging and motivating without being shaming. I have been doing lots of research and interviews around this topic of how we can better lead without shaming. It’s valuable. Brene Brown has done some remarkable research on it. Her TED Talk, which is one of the most listened-to, about this concept of vulnerability and shame and recognizing it and getting it out of your life. Nothing that comes from God is laced in shame, and there is no place for it in the church nor is there any place for it in any organization. Hugh: When we are demeaning ourselves, we are demeaning God, because we are a creation of God. In this series of podcasts, #42 is my colleague Dr. David Gruder, who is an organizational psychologist. He talks about the shadow. That is part of what you’re talking about: the negative scripts that we have that limit our ability. Sometimes we’re our own worst enemy, no matter where we are leading. Kurt: Yeah, it’s too bad. Hugh: I’m glad you referred to that. It’s a hidden liability for leaders. It’s really a problem. This podcast is called Orchestrating Success obviously. I picked up when you said you prepared for this podcast. Thank you. That honors what I’m doing. You checked me out, and you obviously know I am a musical conductor. Orchestrating is how you define the instruments that play, but it’s also adding energy to that idea that is notes on paper become sounds, glorious sounds. The subtitle is “Converting Passion to Profit.” I am a champion for profit in all of its forms. The scripture says, “What does a man profit if he gain the whole world and lose his soul?” That is a different element of profit. We can be a prophet, for profit, and profit from the synergy of the community. What I want people to do is to profit in their leadership methodology, their vision for empowering themselves and their teams through this series of interviews. Speaking to that paradigm, what’s the most important takeaway that you’ve had? You were a bishop at 28. You don’t look a whole lot older than that. Kurt: I’m 35, so it’s been a few years. Hugh: I’m 71. You’re not a whole lot older than that. Kurt: I still got a lot to learn, for sure. Hugh: I can remember 35. It’s kind of fuzzy. What would you like people to take away? I think we’ve covered our topics really well. If there is something else you want to cover here, I’m happy to do that. Back to my question. What are the takeaways you would like to emphasize for leaders who need to up their game in any space, in an entrepreneurial space, charity space, church space, wherever? What are some empowerment pieces that you’d like to leave people with? Kurt: Pleasure to do so. Again, I thank you, Hugh, for giving me a stage here to talk about what I have learned as a developing leader. My overall message that I would love for people to take away is be a leader and not a calling. Wherever it is that you lead, are you leading because you are called to that or asked to lead or hired as a leader, or are you leading because you find it a passion in your life to step up and have an influence for good in your world and surroundings? You mentioned my age of 35. One of the principles I wanted to mention is for leaders out there, even in the secular world that maybe are managers or executives, somebody took a chance on the 28-year-old young kid to be a bishop. It impacted me as a person and hopefully I had positive influence in that role. Don’t underestimate. Speaking as one of the older Millennials in the world, don’t underestimate the power of those Millennials. Don’t wait on them to lead. That doesn’t mean you have to fire your older executive staff and put a bunch of young guys in Levi’s in there. Look for opportunities for them to lead and to flourish so that by the time that you do need them to step up, they are ready to go and to be a leader, not a calling. Hugh: That’s huge. We’re not engaging Millennials as a sector. I’m a boomer, you’re a millennial—we have similar values. We value core principles, and we value a lot of things that we see in common, but we have a different way of approaching it. Neither one is bad or good; it’s just understanding and celebrating the difference and creating a diverse board, a diverse cadre of people who are servant leaders in any organization. That’s a great final thought. Kurt, I see why you’ve been called into leadership positions. You’re on top of your game, sir. Kurt: Thank you. I appreciate that. It means a lot. Hugh: Thank you for being on this podcast, and thank you for sharing your message with so many people that tune in.
Dreams, Teams, and Funding Themes Danna Olivo Shares Her Secrets of Success Danna Olivo is a Business Growth Sequencing Strategist and CEO of MarketAtomy, LLC. Her passion is working with small first stage entrepreneurs to ensure that they start out on the right foot and stay on the path to financial freedom. Known as the Business Birthing Specialist, Danna understands the intricacies involved in starting and running a successful business. Her efforts extend beyond the initial strategic planning process on into the implementation and monitoring phase. As an intricate component ingrained into her client's business structure, she works diligently to keep her client's accountable and on track to fulfilling their success goals. A graduate of the University of Central Florida's College of Business, Danna holds degrees in both Marketing and Management Information Systems (MIS). She brings more than 35 years of strategic planning experience in business, marketing and business development both nationally and internationally. Danna is not only a professional business growth strategist but has worked as an International Strategist within the country of Brazil, is a public speaker and #1 Best Selling Author on Amazon with “Success From The Heart” and “Journey To The Stage.” Her newest book “MarketAtomy: What To Expect When Expecting A Business” is now available through Amazon on Kindle. You can find out more about Danna Olivo at http://www.marketatomy.com Here's the Transcript Hugh Ballou: Greetings to the Nonprofit Exchange. We do this live every Tuesday at 2:00 EST. Today, Russ is with me as always. Russ, how are you today? Russell: Greetings. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hugh: Russ is in Denver, and I'm in Virginia. I'm getting ready to move into a new home. Moving is one of my most favorite things. It's right below setting myself on fire or teaching middle school. It's in close competition, but I am moving this week. My life is full of excitement. Russ and I see each other at least once a week and talk in between. Thank you for being a faithful co-host in this series of interviews with thought leaders. We certainly have one that you and I both know. We are talking about some of the themes that we have talked about in the past, but we are on the verge of launching the third pillar of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have a pillar that supports clergy and all the religious organizations, like churches and synagogues, and the para-church organizations. And we have a leg that is all these social benefit community charities; we call them nonprofits, but it is the other tax-exempt type of organizations. Now the third leg is for early-stage entrepreneurs. There is a lot of struggle with early-stage nonprofits and businesses around the topic of getting your grounding and getting your funding. Today's guest is a dear friend of ours, Danna Olivo. Danna, welcome. Danna Olivo: Hi, Hugh. Hi, Russell. Hugh: Danna, you and I have known each other for a number of years. We participate in some activities together. You have actually spent a day at one of my live events. You were not at the one where Russ was a co-presenter, but you were at one where Shannon Gronich was a co-presenter. You're familiar with the methodology of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I'm familiar in concept with the brilliant work you do. You came to me a couple weeks ago and said, “Hugh,” and you came with another friend of ours who is a funding expert, “let's build a system, a program for those people early-stage who are struggling.” We are talking about the future now. This is what's going to happen under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Danna, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange. Danna: Thank you, Hugh. I am real excited about this new program that we're talking about launching. You know as well as I do that there is a gap out in the marketplace that is just not being met. And we really need to touch on that and help them. We make it so easy for entrepreneurs to start a business here in the U.S, but we don't make it easy for them to grow a business in the United States. Hugh: They can start a business, but they lack the- We can teach them how to drive a car, but they need to put gas in it so it runs. That is the world of funding. Before we dig in, we are going to keep people in suspense for a minute. Before we dig into the topics for today, give our listeners some background about you. What's your superwoman power? What's brought you here? You could probably talk the whole podcast about your experiences. But capsule what's brought you here and your primary passion for what we're doing together. Danna: My company's name is MarketAtomy; it's marketing anatomy. I have had so many clients that were coming to me that were new entrepreneurs, and they had a good product or service they had started their business on. But what happened was they got into business and there were no customers coming through the door. They couldn't figure out how to bring those customers through the door. In an effort to teach them the infrastructure that needed to be in place around that product or service is where MarketAtomy was born. The way I do that is by explaining to them graphically through the human body that the heart of your business is your why. Why are your customers going to come to you? Why are your patrons going to visit you over the competition? The brain is your how. That is your structure. That is your systems, the methodologies, everything that runs the business. But in the human body, can the heart operate without the brain? And vice versa? No. You need both the heart and the brain in order to grow your business and bring those customers through the door by pushing your message out through the veins of the body to your market, which is the human body. It's a real simple concept. My vision for MarketAtomy is to teach this to every single entrepreneur out there wanting to start their business. Ultimately, make a dent in the number of failed businesses out there in the world. Hugh: I want to highlight what you're saying and move it into the nonprofit sector. We teach nonprofits (we're using the word because people understand it), we teach tax-exempt charities how to install business principles in their organization because it's truly a tax-exempt business. We have more rules from the IRS for how we manage money. Basically, we have to create profit to fund the work that we're doing. We need to attract those customers or stakeholders or donors or volunteers. There is not a whole lot of difference in how we attract those. How about you? Danna: No. there isn't. For the most part, you hear about nonprofits always trying to raise funds, and they are going to the for-profit corporations to help them through donations and things like that. What about the for-profit side? Is there a way, or there is a way, where they can rely on nonprofits that are going to help them build credibility in their company? Reach out and expand their market. There is a synergy there between the nonprofits and the for-profits by partnering, and that's what we call cause marketing. Hugh: Yeah, absolutely. I am going to use the words “business” and “charity” because it's simpler for my brain not to have so many “p” words in there. Danna: Business and charity works good with me. Hugh: I want to cut through the chatter and get down to the brass tack. You've done a brilliant thing like we've done a brilliant thing. We have put synergy and vision together and got SynerVision, which is the synergy of the common vision. You put market anatomy together, and that comes up with a new concept. Plus you can go get a URL nobody has. Danna: That's true. Got it. Done it. Hugh: I want to set the context for what we're going to talk about later. I want to delve into some of your expertise. People tell us they learn important things they can utilize day to day in their charities. Our primary listening audience are those people who are executive directors or clergy, and they are trying to make their way through all this stuff they don't understand. We want them to understand some business principles. People tell us if there is some very useful information. We have tens of thousands of people who view these videos and listen to the podcast. Knowing you, you will give us some nuggets for the interview. We are launching a program underneath SynerVision Leadership Foundation for early-stage entrepreneurs, whether they are running a business or a charity, to get that strategy and to have access to early-stage funding, which is a trap for a lot of people. They get stuck right there. We will talk about that later on in the interview. As we start this, I have SynerVision International, which is a business. I work with business leaders. I have SynerVision Leadership Foundation, which is a 501(c)3 charity. There has to be a clear line as far as how the cash flows from one to the other; there are strict rules. There is tax rules for everybody, but there is more strict rules with a charity. Russ knows about this. He has had years with the IRS. We attempt to stay out of prison and not get in trouble and pay penalties because we try to uphold those rules. They are there for a really good reason. We can attract funding that is philanthropic funding, but there are eight streams of revenue there. There are a lot of ways we can attract funding. You work with people in a business and a charity. Sometimes you have people that have both like me. You started talking a little bit about the two of those working together. What else would you like to share about how somebody could have an entity, two totally separate entities, two checking accounts, two different leaderships—you have to have a board with a charity. Just because you founded it doesn't mean you get to say anything. You have to have real clear principles because the board is in charge of governance and the funding piece, the disbursement, the financial accountability. If people have both, you advocate to people to have both. If so, how do you manage that? Danna: First of all, yes, whether you are a business or a charity, I think you should have a board of directors. On the business side, it could be an advisory board, depending on where you're going. Yes, you need somebody that is holding you accountable to what your culture is, what your vision is, what your mission is. It's the same thing on the charity side. If you have a nonprofit and a business, I would say it would be beneficial to have two different boards because there is two different mindsets going there. Hugh: Let's let the expert weigh in. Russ, we're getting in your territory here. Do you want to weigh in here? Russell: Good to see everyone. Having separate accountability structures is pretty critical because in essence you have different things that you're doing. One of the terms by the way that I have seen is lack of social profit entities. That might be better terminology to talk about what you're doing. Structurally, you need to keep things separate because if you get into a situation where your profit-making business has unrelated activity going on and the nonprofit is conceived as bringing in revenue from activity that is not related to its primary cause, you could create a taxable income situation. You don't want to do that. You definitely don't want to- The whole purpose of having a nonprofit is not paying tax. That is a big part of it. Danna: I think the other thing to keep in mind- The most critical thing to think about is whether you have both a nonprofit and a for-profit arm, there are two separate businesses. You have to operate them as two separate businesses. They have their own licenses. Everything is operated separately. For that reason, I would say, you do need two boards. Hugh: We talk about an arm and an arm, but really they are two distinctly different entities. What Russ was referring to is IRS has this thing called unrelated business income. If you are bringing in lots of money and it's not related to your mission, then that is really taxable income, no matter if it's a business or a charity. You could argue that I would rather pay tax on more money, but you want to keep your accounting really clean and keep really good records. There is some synergies between the two. There is lots of examples in the marketplace where people do business work here, but then they give away or have a greatly reduced price for those charities. For instance, Russ and I work with organizations through SynerVision Leadership Foundation either for free through opportunities or at a drastically reduced cost because that is the philanthropic calling for SynerVision. We offer people who can't afford it goods and services, and that is why we are tax-exempt. On the business side, I work with business leaders who jolly well have the income and should be paying for it. They get value for that. Let's talk about some of your background. What would you say are your areas of expertise? You have used the word “strategist” and “business plan.” We use business plans. Danna: I call it the life of hard knocks. Believe me. I've got my degrees, I've got this, I've got that, but I'm sorry. It's life. It's life experience that has taught me a great deal of what I know. It comes out in the way that I talk and the way that I teach. I don't teach at a level of a professor or anything like that. I am right there at the level of the entrepreneur, and I think that's what benefits me. I've had two failed businesses. I'll be up front. This is my third business, and it's a success. I'm glad. But we are still growing it. Through those two failed businesses, I learned very early on what I was missing, which is what I'm bringing to the table now. I did not have that business experience. Even though I was a marketer, I did not have that strategic experience on how to develop a strategy to take a product to market, to take a business to market. I did not have those. I just jumped right in, which is what a lot of business owners do. They have a good product or service. They jump into business, and before they know it, they have robbed themselves of their 401k, they have mortgaged their homes to the hilt, they have exhausted their savings, and now they are continuously putting money into a sinking ship, so to say, only because they don't have that knowledge base. They don't have the skills. Short of going back to school, which is what I did for four years and got my degrees, short of going back to school, they really have no other options. They have linda.com. They have other e-learning academies out there, but if you don't know where to start, if you don't know what questions to be asking, they're not going to help you. I am introducing the MarketAtomy e-learning environment at the end of this year, and it will have the actual structure just like going back to school. If you want to learn about doing a market analysis, you have to know who your customer is, who your competitors are in order to do it. They will have to go and make sure they understand that. That is what we are trying to do. Hugh: That is what we are going to do. Danna: Yes, exactly. Oh yes. We are, Hugh. Okay. I am so glad I have you in my corner now. Hugh: You got me cornered, didn't you say. You could say that same thing about people starting charities. I have met people that have exhausted all their money. I have one yesterday that put a lot of money into the charity because they believe in it. I put money into my charity. Danna: I've done it. Hugh: It's going the wrong way, and I'm not taking money out. I don't take a salary form SynerVision. It's a concept that I've rallied a lot of people around. We are moving into phase two of development, which is 2018 is going to be a substantial year for the work we are doing. What you don't yet know is that the gentleman on the other end of this call, the other host, has some good programs that will be valuable to you as well around funding. He is an expert in a number of areas. He is more than a pretty-looking guy; he is smart. Danna: That's great. I'm telling you, I need all the help. I will be the first one to tell you I have big, big visions, just like you, Hugh. But I can't implement them, and I need those people in my corner, which is why I reached out to you and Money Miners. It's why I reach out and surround myself with those experts to make my vision a reality. Hugh: Russ, did you capture that? Number one thing in leadership is to delegate, to bring people on your team. What do you think of that? Russell: I think that's the way to go. At least, that's what we have been telling people. We drink our own Kool-Aid. If we're not drinking the Kool-Aid, then we are not going to get anybody else to do it. Danna: My brain is too small to absorb everything, I'm sorry. Hugh: My vision to you is that you have a big brain and a big heart and lots of really good content. You have great passion for what you do. What we preach in SynerVision, and you just did it, too, is we can do more if we run together. Down in your neck of the woods there was a NASCAR race in Daytona. When they draft, they go faster, and they use less fuel. Both cars. Three cars. It's like a train. You can be much more efficient. We are creating our own draft here. You didn't know I was a redneck and a race fan. Danna: My daughter is a big redneck race fan. I hear it all. Hugh: That's me. We're creating this vortex of energy. Focusing on the road ahead. Talk about some of your programs that you already have that you offer people and how you are going to repurpose those for business and for charities. Danna: I mentioned the e-learning academy that we are developing. We are beta-launching at the end of December. That will fill that self-help avenue that needs to be filled. Then there is still do-it-with-you services because we are a firm believer that you do it with your business owners than for. They need to understand. There are two areas that I have found with the services that I offer where my clients struggle the most. One is clarity. Vision clarity, market clarity, all of that. I have introduced a five-stage clarification process. It's mind-mapping. I will actually take them and clarify all of the components and find those gaps that they are missing. The other area of focus that I have found is even more prevalent is the financing side and funding side. Hugh, you and I know from going to CEO Space there are a lot of business owners that go in thinking that they can just pull together their business plans and just go and present before investors. But what they don't realize is the amount of work that has to go into these packages. Not only that, but they also need to be answering the questions these investors ask. They are not putting themselves in the minds of the investors. That is the other side that we are helping them with by first educating them on the front end and getting their companies credit-worthy so that they can go for these larger dollars on the back end to help them grow. Hugh: That's really critical. You get your own house in shape. Russ, what are you hearing over there? What's brewing in your mind? Russell: What's brewing in my mind is getting that message out there of what value you are bringing, the problem you solve. You got to do it in the language of people who are writing the checks. It's language. If you don't have the right language or you are talking to the wrong people, this is a component that has been challenging over the years for me. I have found myself a lot of times talking to the wrong people. You really have to have tools in place to measure what you're doing. What people measure, and this is what makes social profit so maddening, because you do have dollars and cents, but there are other things that are important to people. It's finding out and having systems to go find out what's important to people so that you can deliver that. It's really asking questions and tapping into their own genius. A lot of these have genius under their own roof that they're not leveraging. That's another story with over- and under-functioning leaders. That's another path that we're not going to go down today. Danna: You're absolutely right. I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I spent six years in Albuquerque, and I was working in the children's department of Hoffmantown, one of the largest churches in the United States. Charles Lowry was the pastor there. Pastor Charles had a business side to the business as well, where he had a men's group, and he would travel the country and teach men entrepreneurs the concept of business in the Christian sense of the word. Where I came out of this is understanding that even in a church environment, it's a business. It needs to be run like a business. I got that from Hoffmantown. You have all of these smaller churches that crop up, and their memberships, their patrons are giving their dollars to these churches that don't have a procedure, a system in place. They are not being good stewards of the dollars that are being brought into the church. Those are the kind of things that we need to teach. Hugh: To be fair with our listeners, we are in concept stage with this. But we all see a huge importance. We are going to resources. Danna, this dovetails with what Russ and I have been working on with some of the other thought leaders you know in creating a portal with both live and virtual events. It's going to be initially under the umbrella of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, and we will go after some philanthropic funding for that. We're actually going to put our money where our mouth is basically. People may be listening to this podcast way into another year. If you're listening to this podcast in 2018, you will see this launch. If you go to synervisionleadership.org, there will certainly be a section on the site that talks about this collaborative entity. We have kicked around names. Let's leave that for later. We'll name it something special, but it will be a project right now. It's a tax-exempt project to empower early-stage thought leaders who really can't afford it. Danna, in the communities where we do the work, it's part of reemploying the work force. Reactivating the military, there are 49,000 homeless vets, and there are a whole lot in homes who are wandering around. There are people who have come out of prison and need a leg up. There are small churches and charities that don't have the vision you just talked about. Part of what we are going to have to do is narrow down our first target. There is plenty of work. No matter if we started in Orlando, Denver, or Virginia, it doesn't matter, we could have plenty of work if people were willing. Let's talk about that piece for a minute. I would like Russ to weigh in, too. Danna, when you see a charity or a small business and there is really a lot missing, what is the biggest barrier to getting that message across? Is it their own lack of self-awareness? What is the barrier for them not coming forward and being open to receiving the assistance that you offer? Danna: I will put into context. You and I met during CEO Space with a certain gentleman that I had put you in touch with. Great ideas. They always have great ideas, and their heart is there. But first of all, they approach it unprofessionally in the sense that they are not protecting themselves. This was the first thing I identified with this gentleman. He is already getting sponsorship dollars and things like that from the public and the community, but he's not protecting his organization. As those funds come in, they're not being funneled correctly or monitor correctly. The first thing I find out is they jump in without a plan for protecting or being good stewards of the dollars that are coming into the organization. I think the other thing is they jump in because they don't have the funding and they're wearing way too many hats, so the project never really gets off the ground because they're thinking they have to do it all themselves. This is in business; this isn't just nonprofits and charity work. They think they have to do it all themselves to save money, but in actuality, energy is money. If they are spending all their energy doing a whole crapload of little things, they're not getting anything done. They're not making money. They're not able to get what they need. I think the first thing that I would say that- it's a matter of we have to clarify. What is that vision? What is the strategy to reaching that end vision? At the same time, showing them that you have a huge responsibility as a charity, as a nonprofit, you have a huge responsibility because it's not just your money that you're using and that you have to hold accountable. You want to make sure that you are able to report back to your donors how you've managed their money. Hugh: In case of a grant, it's crucial. You won't get another grant. They might ask for the money back if you have not demonstrated the proper fiduciary oversight and good stewardship, as you put it, which is a really good term. Danna: That's why what you bring, Hugh, on the strategy side for nonprofits is just amazing. They really need this. There are so many people with such big hearts, but they don't know how to do this. Hugh: Russ, you heard it right here. I'm amazing. Russell: I have been trying to tell him that for quite a while. Now I'm glad he hasn't gone to that. Danna: We'll keep him grounded, but we can always lift him up. Russell: All of us behind the scenes know all about it. In looking at and addressing that question, there are a number of things that might prevent people from actually doing something different. Sometimes it's resource-based. Other times, it's people that I've come across that are doing things that have been in the leadership role. They look at things, and they're not comfortable getting outside of what they're used to doing. Maybe looking at what they need from a person side, from a human capital type. This is a big thing because when investors or funders or donors of any type write you a check, they're betting on your team, not necessarily just on you. If people are unable or don't have the right collaborative partners, or they don't have people that are willing to collaborate, they become starved for people to actually implement. Ideas are great, but it's in that implementation that people actually need support. They may not know they need that support, or they may not feel like they have a trusted source for that support. Danna: Exactly. One of the other things is, and I'm so glad I have you in my corner, Hugh, is I learned the other day: The word “foundation,” so many nonprofits will set up a foundation but they don't realize the legal implications of having a foundation and having the money from that foundation be designated to other charities rather than just their own. Hugh: In our case, it's in-kind services. A dollar goes to SynerVision, it goes to other charities in the form of in-kind support, like those of us on this call. It's money in a different form. Danna: That was just a lesson I learned this week. Hugh: Russ, the example that she used, without giving names, it's okay if he's listening. It's a funny story. A colleague of mine, we were talking about CEO Space. It's a business growth conference that all of us met at. Danna: A collaborative environment, yeah. Hugh: Teaching cooperative capitalism. We take it a step up in collaboration. We all know that it works. A friend of mine, Ed from there, we got with Ken Courtright and talked about… It was actually David. They've both been on this podcast. David and I got with Ken for some advice on critiquing a thing we were launching. Next thing I know, without names, he is talking about us on his podcast. He used Ed's name because Ed had some sage advice, as he always does. I'm honored when somebody says, This is a guy, and this is what they need, and this is our conversation. I knew it was me, but he protected my identity. The person you're talking about has a huge vision. They're bought in 100%. They have passion for it, and they're going for it, no matter what. It's a classic case of somebody getting the cart before the horse. They're jumping in and not having the systems in place. Russ, there are some dangers from the auditing side, from the tax side of not having the records and not having a board that manages the cash flow. Are there some dangers people need to look out for as we are early-stage putting good systems in place from your standpoint in your years working with the Internal Revenue Service? Russell: You definitely want to have good internal controls. How does money flow in and out? Who tracks the money? Who actually handles it? Who tracks it? The people that handle it and the people that are tracking it should be different. When you are talking about large amounts of money and large purchases, you need solid fiscal policies to determine how purchases are made. There are a lot of opportunities for funds to walk out of the door unbeknownst to the management if you don't have very stringent internal controls in place. Separation of duties, that's always a big one. If you're dealing with government monies, you need to be aware of different things that you need to do to comply, especially federal monies under the Office of Management and Budget. There are a lot of pitfalls you can fall into. Of course, we already talked about unrelated business revenue. There are endless places you could end up stepping on a landmine from a tax perspective because the code is so complicated. I think that with a charity, one thing that is often overlooked is whether or not you are registered to collect donations or what you're registered to collect. Are you registered in all places that you're actually going to receive funds? That's one that flies under the radar frequently. Hugh: Those are good words. Russ and I have seen this, and I'm sure you have seen that people think because they have a good product on the business side or really good intentions on the other side, money is going to jump their way in the bank. It doesn't happen that way. Danna: No, I'll tell you a perfect example. I was at a conference three weeks ago. We were in a mastermind session. We were talking about the financing side. When the question came up, two of the individuals, they were new entrepreneurs, said, “I'm incorporated. I don't need to use my personal credit because now I am protected under the veil of incorporation.” My explanation to them is: That is absolutely true. You are protected. But consider it this way. Your LLC or corporation that you set up is another individual. It's an individual that has absolutely no credit. You are wanting to launch your business and be able to get bank credit and financing and things like that. If you have no credit, chances are you're not going to get any financing. That's where you need to bring in your personal financing, your personal credit, to kick-start your business and then at a later date, you can take yourself off of that and everything else is put into the corporate veil. But you do need your personal credit, which is where we run into issues. Hugh: We want to be careful with charities. They don't want to put anything in there of theirs because you can't get it back out. We want to create a firewall there. But you speak a really good track to lay down here. We must have personal disciplines with our leadership, with our funding, and with our behaviors. If we are going to be effective leaders, we got to get our own house in order as well. Danna: That's exactly it. That's part of what we are going to be doing with this summit. Hugh: Great. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Part two will be early in 2018 that we will do a formal announcement with the tracks and the programs. We do see a need. What I will create is a forum of SynerVision, an information forum, where you and I will collaborate on the questions. People can come and weigh in on their top issues. If they are starting a small business or a religious institution or community charity or a cause-based organization, any of those tax-exempt, or membership organization, 501(c)6, if they are starting one of those entities, what do they think their biggest needs are? We will have people in the conversation. I'm envisioning—and I didn't check this out with you, but I am going to blurt it out anyway. I'm envisioning a combination of things. The online learning, but also some live webinars. I am also envisioning some group processes. I find that when I have people, especially at a place we talked about, CEO Space—Danna, you saw it and Russell, you saw it on the SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium—when I am helping one person think through their issues, other people are listening, and everybody is learning from that example. There is group learning that we haven't talked about, but I think you and I have had similar experiences in that area. What are your thoughts on that? Danna: I definitely agree. Masterminding is what we're talking about here. When you think about it, it's definitely one of the hot topics right now. That is one of the best ways to learn from other successful thought leaders. I know that's how I've learned. We've got some mutual friends who are very big thought leaders, and they are holding their own masterminds. Don Ward is one of them. We can't help but learn from others. Hugh: Absolutely. Danna: We can't help but learn from others. Why reinvent the wheel and struggle if there are people out there willing to give us this help that we need? That is exactly what CEO Space is. You go there in a collaborative environment and you get the information you need. I just came off of Women's Prosperity Network, which is a nation-wide organization. This is another one that is very collaborative, what they call cooperative, I think. Women, more and more women are starting businesses. This is a very fast-moving market right now. Hugh: My wife and I took some time over the weekend and went down the route to Staunton in Virginia. It's a really well-kept downtown, both in character and architecture. People were downtown. Business after business was young, female entrepreneurs. I just rejoiced in that. Everyone was a niche, and it was creative, and there was passion behind it. We are in the women's era. It's time to leave the old white guys behind. We messed it up; it's time for a new era. Danna: It's amazing how many men have come in and joined the WPN, the Women's Prosperity Network, because they like that interaction with the women. They like that comradery. I grew up in the architectural/engineering/construction market. In that market, I spent 35 years. Everything was so closely held to the chest. Don't say this, don't say that. We don't want the competition to hear this. I just kept telling them, “Guys, get over it. They already know what's going on. Get over it. Don't be afraid. Just stay a step ahead of them.” Women just have a way of cooperating and helping and lifting each other up. If more and more people did that, we would be a lot farther along than where we are right now. Hugh: We can make up for lost time. I totally agree with you. Women are very collaborative. At this point in history of recording, it's time for the small business sector and the charity sector to set a new bar. We have conflict in the government and with football of all places, and people are divided over common issues where we ought to be united for those. We will not go into politics today. Danna: Thank you. Hugh: There is another channel and example that we are called to be. I want to do a Round Robin here. I want to start with Russ because we need to give the better-looking guy some attention, some airtime. Russ always has these great sound bites, but he has also got some really good contributions. When he speaks, people listen. Russ, two things. Do you have some comments about what Danna has brought up or questions for her? Then tell us about your next live event for your charity work and your program for funding that you have. First with Danna, and then talk about the two things that you have, or others you want to share. Russell: I think that everything is relationship-based. This is the thing that we are coming around to. It's all about relationships. The way that men operate, we're more linear in our thought process and more results-oriented. Women are more relationship-based. What we're finding out is that if you want to build partnerships and joint ventures, you are going to have people that resonate with you. If you're going to get people to collaborate with you in any project, it's all about relationships. You have to have good relationships. People aren't just looking for the fast buck, the quick transaction. They're not going there. That's not going to work for people. It's all about relationships. We really need to change that. The other thing is in looking at churches, I have been working with my own envisioning project. Whatever we're doing, the key is to raise our level of consciousness. This is what we're finding out with today's environment. We're shouting at each other. We're at a point in time where if we are going to succeed, it doesn't matter what area you're talking about. If you're talking about your spiritual or economic situation, your business, we have to raise our level of consciousness to be more effective, to help more people. That's my view on that. As for right now, I am working on some new material with a group called Algorithms for Success. I've done some training with them. We're actually strategizing on some of my online programs. I am working on different modulized programs for fundraising and board development. We're working on rolling out a series of things for 2018 as well as the book Four Steps to Building a High-Performance Nonprofit. I have been working on that for a while; I have not gotten all the interviews I want, but we are going to be launching that online program that I am in the process of revising. That is taking me through the fundamental steps of building a strategy. It's a 22-point strategy framework that Hugh and David Gruder actually developed a success map. As far as questions for you, what benefits do you think could be realized from cross-sector partnerships? What are the big wins you see businesses getting through this collaboration? What are some of the wins for the nonprofits as well? Danna: Wow. The reason I reached out to Hugh for this program that we're talking about is because one of the benefits is with the target market that I go after, small businesses that are generally under $500,000 annual revenue or less, a lot of times they can't afford my services. Much to the chagrin of my husband, I would love to give my services away. But his comment is, “Honey, I'm sorry, but we gotta make money. I don't want to be working at a j-o-b all my life.” It's two-sided. In an effort to find a way for them to be able to afford the services that they need, there is grant money out there. That's what we want to go after. I'm not familiar with nonprofits, and I know that I need a nonprofit. That's why I reached out to Hugh Ballou. I knew I needed a nonprofit leg to help on the sponsorship side so we could go for sponsorship dollars for these events we are doing, and also for the grant money to help those business owners that qualify to get the education and the resources that they need. That is one of the reasons where I see for-profits and nonprofits can coordinate. The other thing is by businesses partnering with nonprofits, you get that credibility factor. By building in that credibility factor, your clients look at a higher standard for you. Not necessarily at a higher standard, but they become advocates because they know you're doing good for the community. You're doing good for society, and they want to promote you because of that. So you get the credibility aspect. You get the market outreach. You get the dollars. There is so much value and benefit that comes from a business partnering with a nonprofit. You have to figure out how to make that work and not try and do it all yourself. Russell: That's critical. Hugh: Russ, you're so right. Let's capture that. What I find over and over again is we help small business owners, especially solopreneurs, learn how to do things and then try to bring in team members. With a charity, it's imperative that you start with a team. That's the biggest problem leaders have in the charity/church world. The leader wants to do it all, but really you must engage the board for governance, for fiduciary oversight, and for support, their arms and legs. Lots of really good stuff here. We are coming to the last stretch of our time here. Danna, we got a lot more to talk about. We need to do some heavy lifting. Right now, you are waiting for me to get a document back to you. I am starting to get a clearer vision of the potential. Our problem is going to be to scale it to what we can handle to begin with. I know the energy field here is really good. Russ, where do people go for your stuff that you talked about? Your book and your online program, your website. Where do people go to find that? Russell: For the four steps to building a high-performance nonprofit, you go to bit.ly/fourstepshpnpo. I will drop that in the chat box so that people can see it. If you'd like to have a talk with me, I do discovery sessions with folks. You can go to bit.ly/bookruss to get on my calendar, and we will have a discovery session about whatever concerns you. I am in the process of having people rebuild my website, so I'll have free offerings. I have a donor series and some board series things that people will be able to tap into once my website rebuild is done. I'm working on some other courses and writing articles. All of that stuff will be available to everyone out there. Hugh: I want to know when you sleep. Do you sleep? Russell: I sleep quite a bit, maybe more than I should. I'm finding as more time passes by, I sleep a little bit more. The real opportunity, I think, in this is to get people talking to one another. This thought crossed my mind. I was thinking of asking Danna: What is the high point, the one single thought that needs to be conveyed to people on both sides, for-profit and nonprofit? What would you say is the single thread that needs to run through their minds when they are debating about whether or not they should collaborate? Hugh: I'm going to let her think about that a minute. That's a great question. You took the words right out of my mouth. Danna, think about that for a minute. We need to think about profit in our charities. That is the gas that is going to help us fully achieve our mission and vision. Thenonprofitexchange.org is the place you can view this video a few hours after we stop here. I will put the links for Russell's website and Danna's website. You will already be on the SynerVision website when you go to thenonprofitexchange.org. That will take you to SynerVision for this Tuesday program. Danna, we are going to let you close us out with Russell's question that you have been pondering on. Your website is… Danna: Marketatomy.com. It is also being revised, so there may be a little bit of Greek in there right now. Just ignore it. Hugh: We have to stop here. Danna, will you leave that closing thought for us? Danna: Russell, correct me if I'm wrong. You sked me what is the one thing that should be considered when thinking about collaborating with a nonprofit or a for-profit. First, you need to be clear in your messaging. You need to be clear in what you want so that you can communicate it clearly, and then also synergy. For instance, me teaming with Hugh, he is a strategist. We have the same processes and things like that, so that creates that synergy. Does that answer your question? Russell: That does. Synergy is all about synergy and alignment. Danna: Alignment, yep. Hugh: That was my inspiration for combining vision and synergy. It's the synergy we get from the common vision, which is our trademark. Danna Olivo from Orlando, Florida, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your time. Russell, thank you for your friendship and support. Thank you both for being here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Highlighting the best ideas from the best sessions is our intention. Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis point to interviews for more listening and more personal growth. Here's the Transcript NPE Hugh & Russell Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it's an episode of the Nonprofit Exchange that is the Hugh and Russell show. Russell David Dennis and Hugh McPherson Ballou, we are going to chat today about some of the great things that we've heard in the past podcasts. We create a lot of content, and it's time to reflect on that. Russell, how are you doing today? Russell Dennis: It is a beautiful day here in Denver, Colorado. It did snow a little bit yesterday. Now it's gone back to Denver-type weather, at least for the front range here. There is a beautiful cap on the mountains that you can see miles and miles coming in. Life is good. Hugh: Your life is always good. You make it that way. When I lived in Colorado, they had a saying: If you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes. Russell: It does change frequently. We are expecting some pretty mild weather for this time of year. But the skiers are happy. We got a natural cap. The snow machines are going. Let the skiing begin. It will continue through May. Hugh: Through May. Wow. So we are live on Facebook. We record our podcasts as a live video feed, so anybody who is listening to the Nonprofit Exchange podcast, feel free to join us on Facebook live on Tuesdays at 2:00 Eastern Time. You go to thenonprofitexchange.org, and it will lead you there. We post to the past sessions and create new sessions every Tuesday. Russell, I find that when we are doing it live that we have unexpected participants that join us on Facebook. I also find that there is an energy with creating that live event. What is your experience with this? Russell: I have had people come in and share their experience because it enhances the program. It always helps to have people ask questions that are burning in their minds. One of the things to consider because as nonprofit leaders, you're running an enterprise. It's a business like a lot of others. The big difference is the tax status. There are problems with people and business and just operating that can be solved and leadership issues. These are things that people want to talk about. I like to bring people things that they want to hear about. I love when people ask questions because it gives us points for discussion. We find out what sort of things are important to you out there, and that is what matters to us. Hugh: I was with both Burt Oliva and David Dunworth two weeks ago tomorrow down in Florida, and we managed to dodge the weather and do some meaningful things in between the storms. As I spend time with both of those gentlemen who are both watching right now, I really appreciate the level of skill they have and the level of expertise. David Dunworth has been on this podcast. I've talked to Burt, and he and his team are going to be part of this interview process next month. Their calendar is pretty full. I look forward to having them. The fact that you are connected to them is also great. We have been doing this Nonprofit Exchange. Our magazine editor, Todd Greer, Dr. Greer is an organizational psychologist. He has got a degree in organizational leadership… *audio interruption, clearly a network issue* Russell: Can you hear me, Hugh? Can you hear me okay? Hugh: Did I lose you and you're back? Russell: I lost you for a brief- Hugh: Did you go away? Did you hear what I just said? Russell: Very little of that. We had a little bit of a freeze there momentarily. Hugh: High tech is really great when it works. When high tech works, it's great. When it doesn't work, it really stinks. What I was talking about the history of this podcast, and it starts as a video and then goes into the audio on Nonprofit Exchange podcast, which you can find on iTunes and Stitcher and most every platform. The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, you have showed up faithfully as unofficial co-host, but you are trying to get out of it now. You are part of this process. How long have we been doing this together? Has it been a year? *more technical difficulties* Russell: We started fairly early in the year on a consistent basis. I popped in and out on some broadcasts in late 2016, but I've been consistent since probably about February. We've been co-piloting during the week. One of the things that has been pointed out because we've had people that have come in and talked about the use of technology for nonprofits and using it well. Technology is something that can enhance what we're doing, but it's not primarily what we're doing. It's important to use it well as a nonprofit leader not to be afraid of it. Technology can do a lot of things for you particularly when it comes to getting your message out. *more technical difficulties* I have been talking about technology and how we can leverage it to make it work. It's not a magic bullet, but it's something that can afford nonprofits the opportunity to get their organizations out in front of other people, whether it's through Facebook or using Google. Google has put millions and millions of dollars into the nonprofit arena by offering grants to nonprofits to actually get their message out there. *more technical difficulties* You might be having a bandwidth thing going on there. Hang in there. I don't know if you have some apps open that you might be able to close. Hugh: I was going to blame it on you. I'm hoping that audio continued and I didn't hear anything, but it could have been my own frailty here. I did change devices so I am on a different router now. Russell: It seems to have cleared the problem up. I was talking about technology because that is so important for everything. One of the things that I was talking about getting messages out there, but it can be used to reach your audience. You can actually do a little bit more in terms of determining who the people are that are listening to you. You can get your message out in more cost-effective ways than you were ever able to do before. Like anything else, the thing that has been the overarching message that our guests have put out as far as using technology and social media and connecting with people is it's all about relationships and building strong relationships with people you serve and those that you serve with. Technology is not a substitute for that, but it's a way to factually extend that reach in a cost-effective manner. Hugh: Absolutely. Russ, let's talk about some impressions from- Tell me again when you and I started doing this together. Russell: I think we started moving consistently in February because I pop in and out in 2016. But I've started showing up consistently. We have been here. I have been on just about every broadcast. I have had the honor and privilege of standing in a few times for you when you had other things that you had to get done. It's been beautiful. It's been a great thing for me. I have done other broadcasting, too. I'd like this talk show hosting. I think it suits me. Hugh: You do it very well, and you've had me as a guest on your show. You know we have learned, in our association with our group called CEO Space, the power of cooperation, and we have taken it to the collaborative level. There is plenty of room for everybody to play because it's a big playing field, and we bring it to a new paradigm. Let's look over some of the past podcasts. We have had the pleasure of interviewing some really amazing people. I don't know about you, but I learn from every single one of them. As a matter of fact, every time we talk, I learn something from you. You have some incredible sound bites. You are very well-read. You continue working on self. I remember Jim Rohn would commonly say in his speeches, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” That is my sense of Russell Dennis. You are always improving your own self. You have done many worthy things in your career. What you are doing is bringing all that value to people who need it. Thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your wisdom. Let's collaborate on thinking about the wisdom we've gathered from some of these people we have interviewed recently. What are some of the messages that jump out to you from some of those great interviews we have had? Russell: Here's the panel discussion that we had that really sticks in my mind. Several weeks ago, we were talking about diversity. This is a discussion that I've been having with people all over the place. In fact, I had a discussion with one of my classmates from the Sponsorship Boot Camp around diversity. This lady is a naval officer. She was a pilot, so she experienced some interesting reactions from her fellow naval pilots. It's pretty much a boys' club. When we get into diversity, we can get stuck on race, but there's not just race. There is age, gender, and socioeconomic status, which is really critical. Some of the things that I've read in the nonprofit press show a lack of diversity in our nonprofit boardrooms. That has an impact when you don't have a diversity of leadership or a diversity of thinking styles. You're leaving a lot on the table, and that's been uppermost in my mind lately as far as some of our discussions go. Hugh: Well, that's Dr. Thyonne Gordon you're referring to. The more I talk to her, the more I appreciate the depth of her wisdom and character. The context behind both her and Mr. William Lewis, they are both doctors and very skilled people. I was the white guy on the call, but it wasn't, as you have carefully placed, about race. We think it's about race. That's a factor. But how about boomers and millennials? How do we get along? We don't, because we don't understand each other. The gender, you talked about. The sexual preference, what is your lifestyle? Did you grow up in the ghetto? There is so many dynamics. When I participated years ago in working with a company in Germany that holds a competitive event called the World Choir Games, there were 400 choirs that show up from 100 countries. That is diversity. That is amazing diversity. People come together around a common thread, which is music, excellence in music. There is community that happens, not because you force it to happen, but because we all celebrate our diversity and celebrate the commonality that is music. I think we forget to think about the things we have in common. We think about what we have that is different rather than what we have in common. Russ, even within a white church that has mostly people from one generation and one economic sector, there are diverse opinions, but they are trapped in this container, not being able to get outside their point of view. Somebody from outside to ask questions: What about this? It opens up the conversation. We do get closed in without thinking about possibilities. We just think about what we have always done. What I have gained out of that particular interview, which was the brilliance of two of our guests, is there are some things we can think about. Here are some other values that we could bring. Is it about diversity, or is it about inclusion? Is it about bringing creative energy into your organization? That call was not only about race; it was about a whole plethora of other really powerful things. Am I remembering some of the same things you are? Russell: Yes, that's true. That is what I took away. Here is where you have these things potentially show up in a bad way, if you don't have that diversity. It's understanding the populations that you serve. A lot of the populations look like everybody else, but some of them don't. If you're running a nonprofit and you're trying to serve a population that you don't have a solid connection with, it could reduce your effectiveness and your efficiency in doing that. There are all sorts of problems and other articles. I would love to bring those up. We discussed maybe doing another panel, and I have talked to a couple of people who would be good for that once we decide we want to do another one. Hugh: Let's spin on that a minute. If you're listening to this podcast and diversity, inclusion, and building creativity on your board and your culture generally, if that is a topic of interest for you, please go to the podcast and do some comments. It is on the SynerVision website, and there is a place for comments. We very much welcome comments. If you are really into growing the culture in a creative way, I don't think you can do without some diversity. What do you think, Russ? Russell: You've gotta have it. That has been recognized by a lot of the new research that is out there. I read in the Chronicle of Philanthropy some of their findings. Those ads are out there. It's really important. People are finding that this is critical. The Denver Foundation, right here where I work, they did an inclusion project and put quite a bit of money and research into it several years ago to actually tackle that problem. They have great material on their website, denverfoundation.org. They actually put some of the questions that they ask with limited information on some of the participants and some of the types of questions that they ask. They will be happy to talk with you about it if you want more information. Hugh: Thank you for bringing this up. This is a really important topic. I think there should be a series of group discussions on this topic because it is such a big topic. It is such an important topic. When we had that call and I did a debriefing for the two guests, they both said there is a lot more content and sub-themes. We introduced so many themes in that call. What I think you ought to do is challenge me, or challenge each other, to put a series of these conversations together. We might have to do it not at this time, but do it at this time and broadcast it to be able to accommodate the variety of schedules. I want Wornie Reed, the race professor at Virginia Tech, on the call, and Andy Morikawa, my original founding board member, who have really good wisdom on boards and diversity. There are some others that you and I have talked about. I think there are lots of subthemes for us to work through and develop. What do you think of us having a series of conversations about that topic? Russell: I'd love to do that. As a matter of fact, I have a preliminary agreement. I've got Andie Sue Phillips who will be appearing on the Nonprofit Culture Success show on November 1 at 4 pm EST. She and I are going to be talking about diversity. We are both veterans. She is very interested in coming on and doing the panel and talking. She has experienced this, and she has actually put together a very interesting program that a number of major businesses are looking at on diversity. They found her and approached her on the subject. I'm excited about that conversation that we'll have coming up where she can talk about some of those tools. And we have a number of things. I think you could spend an hour on gender on one program. You could spend an hour on age, particularly the disconnect between boomers like ourselves and millennials. It's really a communication thing. A good friend of mine, Brooke Chestnut, who I went through the Colorado Speakers Academy with, has put some programs together to help organizations that are looking to recruit millennials actually get that done. He put together an interesting concept that he called reverse mentoring. I think it's about time for me to give young Mr. Chestnut a call. Hugh: He could be one of those panelists, couldn't he? Russell: Very easily. That is a piece of his work. Another good friend in the area, Russ Manery, does a lot of work around making sure you hire the right people. He is masterful at that. He was on my show a few weeks back. You got the conversation around age. You got a conversation around gender. Her being a veteran and me being a veteran, that opens up all sorts of doors for this conversation, and I'm looking forward to that. Hugh: Me, too. Russell: There is a lot to unpack there. Then of course there is socioeconomic status. People who actually are in need of a lot of the services that nonprofits provide. A big mistake I've seen people make over the years is that they have got wonderful ideas and they want to help, but somewhere along the way, they neglected to talk to the people that they are actually putting the program together for. Lo and behold, they had everything to sign, they had it funded, they built it, and nobody came. It's really important to talk to these folks and find out how they want to be helped because if they're accessing different services, they don't know where to buy them so to speak. They are experiencing these gaps, and there is something that falls outside the purview of the guidelines. They are actually struggling to fill all the needs. This happens with everything, especially with school. Students can go out and get scholarships and not be able to take advantage of them because of the hidden costs like the fees, the flights, and the textbooks. There are just things that show up that nobody accounts for. Thandie Caraway was on the Nonprofit Culture Success show last week. I have to put that replay up. Hugh: People will be listening to this way after the dates you gave, so let's give a link so people can find that. Russell: I will. Hugh: What is that link? Russell: For the Nonprofit Culture Success show, it's on Facebook. I have that every week. It's a webinar similar to this broadcast. I deliver it the exact same way. If you look up NP Culture Success on Facebook, you will be connected there. Hugh: NP, meaning Nonprofit, Culture of Success. That is a really good program. You interviewed me a few weeks ago. I have been in a thread with some really fine folks. Russell, when you were talking about programs they hadn't checked out, it reminds me of a Robert Frost poem: “We sit in a circle and suppose/the secret sits in the center and knows.” Does that resonate at all? Russell: That's pretty good stuff. David weighed in and said there is a lot we could talk about where diversity is concerned. These types of discussions are what I really love to see. I would love to have more people weigh in. You want to know what people are interested in and struggling with because that is another way we can add value. Hugh: I'm going to ask David Dunworth what some of those topics are that come to his mind. He said there are lots of topics that would enhance the facets of the show. Russell, we've been looking at some of the past podcasts. Last week we had our friend Joe White who had an amazing presentation on goals. I teach goals. I said in that show that Joe did that module in my workshop. You have done your module twice. Everybody I've had present a module does a far better job than I do. Joe came in and presented goals, and it was resonant with what we have defined in SynerVision. He did a stunning job of that. He talked about his GPS system for setting goals, which I found to be very powerful. The Covey principle, sharpen the saw, comes to mind with people like that. We are always working on our tools, sharpening the saw so we can be better. You and I are no spring chickens. We have learned a lot of stuff; we have a lot of stuff. But we are not sitting on our laurels. We are growing our own skill and being able to share the wisdom and experience and skills we have learned over the years. Do you remember that conversation with Joe? Does anything come to mind from that for you? Russell: The thing I loved about his GPS system is that it is incredibly powerful. There is a lot of power in it. The power comes from the simplicity that he rolls it out there with. Almost everybody that drives can relate to a GPS. It makes me wonder how we ever got anywhere without them. They have become so widespread that we are used to them. The power is the focus that comes from using a simple system, is what comes through. I think that any good system is easy to access, easy to understand, and easy to use. That comes from our friend Brendan Bouchard; that is not one of my originals. But it makes perfect sense because a lot of people in the industry, and I have had that conversation with him and other people in the personal development industry: maybe two or three out of every hundred that actually pick up a system implement it. This is where I want to help people get beyond that. If there is something that people can use in simple steps, they are going to be more likely to apply it. It's not going to be overwhelming. That was Joe's GPS system. It is a textbook example of that principle. Hugh: He did a very good job of explaining it and laying it out. And he had a free gift. We don't number the episodes of Nonprofit Exchange. If you find the one on Joe White setting powerful goals, that is a good one. We are going to expand some other topics coming up. David Dunworth had filled in some. One was outsourcing and its challenges because of preconceived notions. I find a lot of charities and churches and synagogues say we don't have time to do all these things, yet they want to hire people. You could outsource some of these things if you had sufficient time to develop your plan and methodology so you could hand it off. One of the basic tenets of transformational leadership is being able to take things off your plate and empower some other people to do. You and I have talked about the burnout rate with nonprofit leaders, and it is unusually high. Part of it is we get stuck as leaders doing too much, and then we are not effective as we could be because we have too much on our plate. One of them is outsourcing. We think giving things to other people is a weakness in leadership when really it is just the opposite. Some other topics that he threw on the table were gender bias, the glass ceiling, young versus old, the color barrier, and the multi-culture world is here. Those are some of the topics. I think besides being the glass ceiling, and that is commonly used with women who are limited- I find there is a lot more opportunity for growth and taking charge for women in the nonprofit sector because they have a unique ability to engage people and bring in some fresh ideas. A lot of the old white guys like me get stale. There is a freshness in them, especially the woman leaders of any race or age. I think there is a great opportunity. The ceiling that John Maxwell talks about is the lid. The lid is our ability to lead the organization. That is the leadership issue, not a diversity issue. But it also could be a diversity issue if we had somebody that brought different skills. Are we going to put a lid on them? Many times, we have this scarcity thinking. It's not just the lid that Maxwell talks about. His framing is that the organization cannot develop any further than the leaders' ability to lead it, so there is the law of the lid. Sometimes, it's not the leader's fault; the organization and the culture puts a lid on that leader. “No, we don't do it that way here.” You and I have seen circumstances where that happens. We have been in groups where we have participated mutually. Talk about that a minute. The framing of leadership and the ability of the board to let the leader lead, if they show some competence. What are some things you have seen? Russell: I'm working with the group now that has actually got good intent. It's a new organization. They asked me to serve on their board. There have been some struggles with understanding what it is that they want. That speaks to the outsourcing that David was talking about. You have to understand what it is that you want in order to be a good customer. That takes some definition. A lot of social profit leaders are new to doing what they're doing from a social profit realm, or they are taking on a big challenge. There could actually be some fear around whether some things are going to work. They are trying new things. They are trying things outside of their comfort zone. Those are things that can hold folks back. It's really expanding the thinking outside of the old traditional limited realms. Good leaders build on the leaders around them. There is no better way to look good than to have a great team of leaders around you because they are actually doing the stuff on the ground. If you are the leader providing direction, these folks actually make you look good. It's really when you bring people onto a board or you are a board and you bring somebody to lead your organization, you are putting them in a position of trust. There is a lot that you are expecting them to do. If you don't give them the tools or the autonomy to actually get things done, to leverage that creativity, you are going to have a little bit of trouble. One of the things my good friend Doug Crude talks about is the brilliance of the team. You have a lot of brilliance under your roof, a lot of people that are dedicated and motivated. But if you suppress that talent and you don't let them shine the way they want to shine, they will walk away. I don't think that it's fully a pay issue; it's really an issue of am I making a difference here? This is really important for millennials. They want to do work that matters. They don't want to be micro-managed. Nobody wants to be micro-managed. It's having that trust for your team and not being afraid to make mistakes that will propel you forward. Those are several things that transformational leaders do. Hugh: Absolutely. I am looking over some of the recent podcasts. We do develop a transcript from the interviews and put it in the Nonprofit Exchange podcast. Going back a while, you and I did a podcast on the five top things that block a leader's success. That one had a lot of plays; it was in April. There was also an interview we did with Dr. David Gruder, our friend who is an organizational developmental psychologist. It was about the people who are controlling the board with their anger. There were some things he gave us that were really helpful. We have seen lots of boards where they say they can't do something because it will upset so-and-so. So we tiptoe around the topic, and they avoid dealing with it head-on. What I heard with that and some other of my studies is when you have conflict, you move toward it and remain calm and address the facts very directly. We tend to avoid in the effort to be nice. When we are trying to be nice to one person, like on a board, then we are devaluing every other person because we have let that person take us hostage. That was the interview with Dr. Gruder, which was before our discussion on those five things. That one spoke to me especially in a special way because I see that kind of thing happening an awful lot. That was back in February, believe it or not. Russell: I think I've got that- We did that in June, I believe. I believe the February discussion was the discussion on the relationship that we have with money. Hugh: The shadow- you're right. Russell: That particular program, he talked about the strong personalities on the board. If one person dominates a lot of the conversations, he talked about how they go about really getting their way and actually short-circuiting any conversation that people have. That is just not a good thing. As a matter of fact, what I'm going to do is drop that into the chat box. That's a good one to go back and listen to if you have a strong personality that you are concerned about. Dr. Gordon did a podcast that addressed boards, too. Hers was also in June or somewhere close by. That one was April 11. That was about empowering your board and structuring a good board. I was actually absent that week that you and Dr. Gordon talked about boards. What were some of the things that she brought up? Hugh: There were a number of things. But it was empowering the board by asking them to do things. Going back to David Gruder's piece, we let other people's emotions control us. We have our own scripts that sometimes are not true. There was some synergy in the two presentations with Dr. Gruder and Dr. Gordon. She encouraged us to step up and ask board members to contribute money, time, and talent, all three. We tend to overcompensate by saying, “I'll do it for them; they're busy,” when that's not what they want. What they want is meaningful contribution. They are on the board because they want to give their skillset. That doesn't mean they are going to work every day for you, but it does mean they want to do something that is meaningful and see an impact from the organization. Her presentation is very valuable, and it's one of the most listened-to episodes on the podcast over the last three years. Dr. Thyonne Gordon, you said it was in April. That is a very popular podcast. That is a very important podcast. It's on a topic that I think a lot of boards struggle with. David Gruder talked about the shadow in February, but he talked about the anger specifically, how people control boards with their anger. That is something that we tend to cave into but is not very helpful. We are talking about David Dunworth who is watching us on Facebook at the moment. He talked about the brand and connecting it to the board. The board has impact on the brand. The board represents our brand. Your employees represent the brand. You represent the brand. We tend to think, Oh I'm a nonprofit; I don't have a brand. It's important that you have a brand identity, a brand promise. It's important that you know what your brand is, and everybody supports that brand. David has lots of skills. His particular channel that day was talking about your brand and what I remember coming out of that is how people behave around that brand. Do you have some thoughts around David and what he shared? Russell: It addressed leadership. His key message was that leaders are actually the brand, and they present the brand they build that once they build that, they safeguard it. They provide the direction and make sure. The brand is really what you're all about. A lot of times, the word “brand” will bring up thoughts around some sort of packaging or snazzy jingle. We think about that sort of thing. We think about it in terms of marketing, but a brand is really a statement about who you are and everything that you do flows out of that. David was talking eloquently about the leader's responsibility to make sure you have all the integrity and the effectiveness around that brand. You build on that, and it guides what you do. Leaders actually reflect that brand that your nonprofit is out there. That is a very good podcast. I did put that in the chat, too. Those will be in the notes for folks that missed those particular ones. I drop those in the notes because they are great to go back to. I tend to make a list and go out and grab all of these links as they go up so that I could look at them because there is so much that we learn from those that you can't absorb it all. I have to go back and listen to them again and again. That is the beauty of the Internet. We archive these videos, and they are there for our review. The podcasts are even better because you can listen to those on the fly. I put them on my iPod, and I can plug my iPod in the car and get it to go. You don't even have to fight with CDs anymore. There is technology again, and it is beautiful when it works, which is most of the time. Hugh: It is. “The Seven Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leadership Success,” that is one that you and I did. We went around that number seven because you had found seven to be a powerful number. The podcast that Todd Greer did years ago was on community. That is by far the most listened-to episode. It was relaunched on August 11 as an archive replay. The other one is “Drucker Challenge: Managing Oneself in the Digital Age.” That was Frances Hesselbein and her leadership institute. She is an amazing person who is much older than you and I but shows up to work because she has a passion for creating value in people's lives. She is very clear on who she is and what she offers. The other one I wanted to lift up—We are coming close to our time. I like not to go over too much—is the due diligence one with Thomas Moviel. You interviewed Thomas. That was one of the times you got to do an interview and didn't have the burden of Hugh Ballou getting in your way. Before you launch an idea, can you do some due diligence? Does the world need your nonprofit? I thought that was relevant. I met him at a conference and invited him in because- You may have more relevant statistics than this, but my memory is that half of the nonprofits that are formed every year close. They are not able to fully achieve their mission at any level. That might partly be because the world didn't need your idea. You go to all the trouble of launching something before you did a check-up to see if it's really needed. Do you remember that interview you did with Thomas? Russell: Yes, it was quite a while ago. One of the things that David pointed out is that the brand philosophy and its tenets have to be present throughout the whole organization, not just with the leadership. Thomas and I talked about some of that identity, but what we were really talking about was making sure that you understand what it is that you do and what you do differently. The concept behind “Does the world need your nonprofit?” is understanding clearly what the problems that you solve are and focusing on things that you really do well. That was a big key takeaway that a lot of folks just don't do that as well as they could. So we talked a little bit about some tools for doing that, but most of the emphasis was on the importance of doing that, whether it's with a program or specific people that you go to attract to your organization. It's really having that focus on the people that you're serving. Hugh: Amen. That was a really good interview. I saw him on Saturday and thanked him for that. I just had a hunch that would be something valuable. It's been one of the most listened-to episodes. As we do a wrap here, Russell, I thought it would be good for us to pause in our pretty active schedule of interviewing thought leaders and for you and I to reflect on some of the lessons and help people think about what they need next. As I am looking over the list since you and I have been doing this, there are a number of very powerful interviews that have of course the transcription there, but they have things that could be implemented. The David Corbin interview about brand slaughter, which is the title of his book. The Penny Zenker interview about how to gain control over your life. It's about that time robber. George Fraser talked about building a legacy. He has the largest African-American network in the world and is very humble about it. Don Green talked about the Napoleon Hill Foundation. He is going to contribute for the magazine about boards. That board uses business principles to support that nonprofit. Our friend Shannon Gronich did getting unlimited publicity. There is a whole methodology under that, which she is so brilliant about. Russell, as we draw to a close, I customarily ask our guests to think about what they want to leave people with. Maybe you and I could take a turn doing that. What is your thought that from all the wisdom that we've ben able to partake in, what would you say to people listening to this podcast that you would wish they could do with some of this wisdom? Russell: I would say refer back to it regularly. Never stop looking for ways to do what you do better. Always work from your strengths as much as possible. Find partners and other people to collaborate with so that you can cover those areas that you don't necessarily do well because you are going to be much more effective just living it, working in your genius, and trusting that to make an impact than trying to create a new genius for yourself. Do what you do. Do your thing. That is really the most important thing: work from those strengths, and always be learning. Always keep learning. Always continue to look for opportunities to collaborate. Learning is a never-ending process. Don' be afraid to try new things. If you are feeling stuck, stop and think about some of the people that you already have in your payroll or who are volunteering or who are writing your checks. It won't hurt to ask your donors for ideas. Ask them what they'd like to see. It's about getting people more and more engaged with what you're doing and letting them know that what they're contributing, whether it's time, treasure, talent, or all three, how important that is. Let them know what's possible through that regularly. Hugh: Russ, that is really great. You took the words out of my mouth. I find people say, “I don't have time to listen to podcasts.” Do you ever drive in your car anywhere? I never have anything but public radio and my podcasts, and I learn every time I listen to my podcast. What I appreciate about Russell David Dennis is that you are always working on your skill. You have a book you're working on. What you pointed out is that just because you listened to it or read it doesn't mean you know it all. What I have learned from our friend Ken Courtright is he goes back and reads great books again with a different colored highlighter. He finds that when he goes back and highlights passages that stand out to him, they are different than the ones he highlighted the first time. Either you didn't see it or understand it, or you weren't ready to learn it yet. I applaud what you said. That is a very good reminder for me. Just because you read it, just because you listened to it doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it again because you are ready to learn the next thing. Russell, I'm grateful for you. Thank you for being on this series of podcasts. I would like to encourage people to go back and listen to this library of wonderful resources that we have as a gift for you. Please share your comments and the podcast on social media or on your email because we want people to listen to them. They are free. This is our gift to you. Russell, thank you for today. I am grateful to you, sir. Russell: It's very good. If folks don't already, keep going back to the SynerVision page, the Nonprofit Culture Success page on Facebook, and the Nonprofit Exchange Channel. Make sure you subscribe to that on YouTube. Check back regularly. Go in the comment areas and let us know what you think and what you want to hear about because we are here to serve you and help you make more impact in your communities. Hugh: Good words, Russell. Thank you so much. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Giselle Jones-Jones shares her wisdom on engaging board members in fund sourcing. Here's the Transcript Russell Dennis: Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange brought to you by SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I am your host, Russell Dennis. Thank you for joining us. Our guest today is Dr. A Giselle Jones. She is the founder of The Write Source, technical writing and consultation services. She is a writing advocate for community leaders, pastors, administrators, and the like, all sorts of nonprofit entities. She is here to share her expertise with us today. Thank you, Giselle. Welcome. Glad to have you here. Giselle Jones-Jones: I am glad to be here. Russell: All right. So Giselle, tell us a little bit more about the woman underneath the cloak. Giselle: I see myself standing like Wonder Woman with my cape flying in the wind. Russell: Tell us about your superpowers here. Giselle: I'll tell ya, I am empowered by the people whom I have had the privilege to write for and to work for. They are really the wind beneath my wings. I can't claim any of the success on my own. It's because I have been in the right place and been equipped to be the right person for these people. I like the way you emphasize The Write Source before because that is exactly what I do. The w-r-i-t-e. I do the writing. We'll talk a little bit more about that in just a little bit. But the woman underneath the cloak, the woman wearing the mask, the woman who is in the background. Again, my name is Giselle Jones-Jones. I am a Jones twice. I married a Jones. I have ben writing now, filling the majority of my professional life, and how I demonstrate that in my day job, so to speak, is as a teacher. I am a professor of English, of literature, public speaking, so that is my day job, and that is what gives me my passion. My students give me my passion. I do that and have been doing it since 1990. That tells my age, Lord have mercy. But I have been doing that for many years, and I learned my greatest lesson. I once heard that the teacher is twice taught. Again, I look at everything really as a privilege, and I take everything that I do as building blocks to do the next thing. Teaching, that gives me what I need to do what I do in my evening job, in my weekend job, in the-extra-time-that-I-have job, which is working for the nonprofit, which is working for the charity or the ministry or the professionals who have a desire in their hearts to do something to make a change in their community. Where I come in is exactly how I see my students. My students on the first day of English 101: Composition, “I hate to write. I don't want to do it.” I have to struggle with them throughout the semester. On the other end of it, they are happy for the journey. But it's the same thing with the charities, with nonprofits. There is this fear, there is this force that is in the air, and they absolutely fear the writing process. Preparing that proposal just causes dread and so they have a desire to do something in the community. They want to do something great, but they often stop in their tracks. When they face that in order to write a grant, it needs to read well, etc, they come looking for the grant writer, that person, and that has been me for organizations again who I have been privileged to work with as a freelance writer. I created The Write Source to cover me as the freelance grant writer, and that is how I have operated over the course of these 20+ years that I have been The Write Source. Meeting Hugh on August 26—that was just a little over two weeks ago—founder and president of SynerVision, opened my eyes to the possibilities that I was working out this summer and building of the infrastructure of my company to duplicate myself a few more times so that I can reach more people and help more people. Again, this opportunity today is a blessing. The past two weeks dealing with Hugh, I have been on a rollercoaster ride already. It's been fantastic because it's putting me in a place of impact to help people more, for me to do more and to build upon what I'm doing even more. That is a little bit of who I am. I'm a mother of three. I have two in college, both of my two girls, and I have a boy who is 12. I'm a wife of a wonderful man who is a musician like Hugh and a director. Again, I am privileged to be his wife. Here I am, before you now. I have shared a little bit about my passion, what makes me get up, what is my mission for life, walking in my purpose, walking in my destiny, all of that. Russell: I'm glad to have you here just looking at your bio. You are a tenured professor at just about every university in the state of Carolina. Giselle: Oh, stop. Russell: Your client list reads like a who's who. It's phenomenal. More hands makes the work lighter. Giselle: That's right. Russell: I've been a part of this SynerVision team and signed on as the first WayFinder. We have been building momentum and now things are starting to take off. It's really great to have expertise to leverage because you can do more. A lot of nonprofits feel like they're alone. How much does that play into the struggle that people have with writing grants? I know that a lot of times, at my first nonprofit job, my first day on the job, the travel planner came and dropped a package on my desk from the Department of Education and said, “I've seen your writing sample. You'll do okay. I'm right next door if you need some help.” I had never written a grant. Talk a little bit about that intimidation that most people have and what makes it seem like such a difficult process for most folks to achieve. Giselle: You said it. I mean there is nothing more dreaded than being given the RFP coming from a federal grant that requires 20-25 pages of information, demographic studies, all those things you have to do, plus giving a face and a personality to the organization. That is a lot. The fact that you were a gifted writer helps, but think about those who lack the skills to write. They feel alone. They feel like they're on an island by themselves, and again, those grants go often unwritten. That's money that that organization did not get because people stop in their tracks. It's for that very reason it is dumped on one person's desk, and that one person feels it is his/her job to do it by him/herself. That is wrong. The team approach is absolutely the best way to go about this. I think that the idea that you offer grant-writing workshops and support the grant writer, that is promoting it the wrong way. It has to come from the point of view that a team effort, with the grant writer sitting at the helm delegating responsibilities—Yes, that can be that person's role, but that person needs the help of experts across the board everywhere from just even designing the document itself. You need someone who goes and gathers the information. All of these pieces go walking past the background in accounting who can put together that top-notch budget that is tight and that is ready to go. All of those elements for one person to handle, who is a gifted writer but may not have the expertise in those other areas, can get overwhelming. Again, having those people on board, having those people who are trained and equipped and ready to contribute to the team, is the best way to approach grant-writing or proposal-writing, period. That body of people, really from the standpoint of all funds development, all funds, all resources, from not proposal-writing because you can't put all your eggs in one basket either, that team will follow the organization and work with that organization, with donors, with sponsors, with all of that because the same documentation is needed, the same writing is needed. That team of people who are equipped and ready to help the nonprofit, the charity, the ministry, they follow them from beginning to end and let them know they're not alone. That is overcoming that particular person who is given that file on the desk, that RFP. No, if that does happen, that person sitting at that desk should pick up the phone and call that team and call a meeting and let's go over this. Let's look at this and delegate. Let's look at who needs to do what so we can pull this together. Russell: Our first question came from Jolyn. She asked, “Do you know of any grant funding for a holistic healer or complementary healing services for PTSD?” Giselle: Oh my goodness. I would think that there will be federal funding, and I do have a list of those from the Center of Disease Control, federal dollars that go toward those military who have suffered. There is funding, yes, there is. As a matter of fact, I am going to keep searching for that, and I will make that available. I think there is a chat forum on here, and I will type those in as I find them. Yes, there are federal dollars that are available for that, yes. Russell: We will get those in there to you. Giselle: Yes. Russell: There we are. We've got a phone number for Karen. There is information we can follow up with in the chat. I have put the web address in the Facebook chat and the Zoom chat forums: http://www.thewritesource.org. That is where you can reach Dr. Jones. As always, our lines are open for more questions. Jolyn already has a 501(c)3 set up, and she knows about practitioners. There are some people that I want to put Jolyn in touch with who are doing different types of things, nontraditional and complementary healing. I will put her in touch with some other people online. My next question is that you have been working. I know you met Hugh a couple of weeks ago, and you have been talking about setting up what you call an office of funds development and collaboration. This is something that other nonprofits can do for themselves. Tell us a little bit about setting that type of thing up. Giselle: Especially because Hugh approaches what he does through SynerVision with the team approach, team is very important. So having a funds development office is really the next step in line for what he needs to do. It takes the pressure off of him so that he can continue to be creative, so that he can continue to do his workshops, his symposiums, but to have this particular office to continue to fund what he does as he helps organizations and boards fund what they do, the team approach handling how they go about procuring and sustaining their funds, this particular office would be the liaison between the workshops and the symposiums that are held to local implementation. This office would provide guidance after they have received the trainings. this particular office will follow them. And it's got two branches, two arms. It will continue to fund the endeavors of SynerVision because its vision is large. Its vision is still evolving. That one side is important. But then those whom SynerVision develops and trains, they will continue support. This office will be here to stay ahead of the game with resources, with staying trained and relevant and current about what is being offered to charities and nonprofits across the board because again people have various needs and they are trying to impact change in their local communities in various ways. This office will be equipped to be the support for both sides, for SynerVision and for those whom they serve and develop and train. It is still a work in progress. Again, this is a two-week relationship that is blossoming, so we're putting some meat on the bones per se, so that is where we are at this point. It is exciting. Hugh and I are talking every day. He says, “Giselle, what do you think about this? I am going to put these ideas together. Let's put a proposal together to begin to make this happen because it needs to happen.” That is where we are as far as that is concerned. This particular office is critically important. It seems like a natural next step for SynerVision to have this particular office available. Russell: And it is. The work here that SynerVision is doing is designed to help nonprofits increase their capacity to serve others. Training and development is very important. It's something that will attract people to you to serve on your board and for volunteers. Having a process, we're all about helping put processes together that will empower you to work more efficiently, that will tell you to go off and find others to collaborate with. Fundraising is like a lot of other things. My whole role is to help nonprofits build high-performance organizations. There are four steps to that, and the first is having a solid foundation where you look at all of the things that you have. You look at all of your assets. You look at what you want to try to do and what you want to try to achieve. As you bring people in, you find out what drives them, what makes the work important to them. Once you understand why you're doing what you're doing, you can start putting a solid foundation. Talk a little bit about the importance of an overall strategy. I've seen a lot of organizations go out and take a scattershot approach where they are applying for grants, they are looking at pockets of funding and saying to themselves, “Oh my God, that's a lot of money. Maybe we can go after this.” But they don't stop to look at whether that particular funding source is the right one. Giselle: That's exactly right. Again, the process is very important. I believe the gift that I have is making sure the voice of the organization tells the story. It is what draws the potential donor to them, which gives value both ways, which shows why the organization is so important and why they are so important to do the work they want to do in their community, and why it won't be done any other way. It's important then to connect with the potential donor that has the same value that in giving their money and making a contribution, they will be a part of that value. That I think is important, but what I do and have done is to go and pull the voice out of the organization. Who are you? It's activating voice. I came up with my own class that I'll be teaching that is called Voice Activated. It is. It's just that. Who are you? What is it that you want to do? Whose lives are you trying to impact? First, you have to know your purpose. Everybody wants grants. I get phone calls every day, “I need a grant. I need you to write a grant.” Okay. Why? Let's back up. Let's take a couple of steps back because you can't go find the grant first and then write the grant to it. You have to have a purpose first. You have to know who you are first. You need to have in mind the person or the thing that is being impacted. You create a story around that. Those are the steps. You begin with you have to know who you are, and then we can look at- You have an idea, you know what it is you want to do in the community, you go from idea to how it is going to impact the community. You then look at, if given the money, if you get the funds, who is going to implement it. What is that going to look like? How are you going to sustain yourself if you don't get that grant funding? What happens after that? Do you have a sustainability plan in place? from idea all the way to sustainability with implementation in there as well, those are the necessary steps it takes, but where we spend the most time is that first base. We have to know who we are, why you're doing it, and thinking long-term or short-term and then long-term. Coming up with that kind of strategy, sitting with the organization, hashing that out will help. We can't do anything else until we know who we are. That is exactly how I teach my classes. That is how I teach those first steps in composition. You have to know who you are. Once you can find that out, I can tap into that voice and help to create your story, to create the emotional attachment. All those things that go along with pulling people into knowing why that particular idea or why that particular act of service is so important. Russell: That's it. That is the second step of how to develop a high-performance nonprofit: creating an effective action plan. Once you look at what you're trying to do, it's a matter of, Okay, what do we need to do first? And breaking it down into simpler steps. It's really important to be clear on who you are. Then you measure everything you do. This is probably a place where a lot of organizations struggle because they got an idea for what they want to accomplish, but they are not exactly sure how they want to measure it. There are two things. The third step of building a high-performance nonprofit is staying on track. When it comes to your programs, there is an evaluation component. That is an essential piece of every grant and of developing programs. A lot of people don't account for resources to do evaluation when they have put a proposal together. The other piece is benchmarking, which is, Okay, how do we compare to other nonprofits doing similar work in the same industry? How are we doing comparatively? Talk a little bit about that, about measuring what you do and how to quantify that because some people look at their work and say, Well, we can't really put it in the dinner table on the spreadsheet, but you still have to show some results. Giselle: That's right. That part is very important. That is what stops people at first base. Because that is a very integral part, the objectives, you have to have clear objectives that can be measured. Those things, as a part of the proposal writing process, have to be considered while we are sitting at the table: how we want to measure this, what are the outcomes, what are the expected outcomes, and then what we want those variables that we use in order to test it. A lot of people, a lot of organizations that I work with, only think short-term. They are very short-sighted and think they want to do a program for only one year when they are working with students to help improve their ELG scores, for instance. Okay. How are we going to know whether or not what you have done as far as the programmatic have impacted these young people? How are you going to test that from year to year? Are you going to follow them for just one year after they have successfully perhaps passed the ELGs their first year? Or are you going to continue to follow them until they graduate? Those are things you have to consider. Then you are addressing subliminally how long your program is going to be, from one year to four years perhaps to eight years to follow with that. All of those steps in between of parents being an active part, they have a great deal to do with whether or not the objectives are being met because they see things as concerns that say that program that involves those children you are trying to help improve those scores, parents see things at home. They need to see some things changing at home. Organizations in a community, they also have input on seeing the growth and development of that child. There are many things to consider as you think about evaluating these programs. That is what we consider at the beginning: How do you draft an objective that can be measured? What other evaluation tools will be there? Yes, sir, those are very important parts of the proposal process that have to be discussed up front. Having a team there to contribute also helps, not just one person trying to think of all of these things themselves. Having the team approach helps. Russell: It does, it does, it does. It's a long-term plan; the sustainability and the funding should be thought of in terms of taking a long view. What will happen over the course of time. This is pretty critical. A lot of people struggle with that. Some do, some don't. You teach people how to go about working these processes in. Tell us a little bit about how you approach teaching people to quantify that because quantifying it and talking about how you measure- The fourth piece of building a high-performance nonprofit is communicating the value that you bring to people. That plays into getting people to bet on your team and to fund you, looking at what is that value and how do you communicate that in terms that are important to the funder? Giselle: Wow. Again, you have touched on something that involves a mindset shift. I say that because every organization has to develop a culture of giving, a culture of fundraising, a culture that supports at all odds giving what is needed in order to operationalize that particular idea. From understanding what philanthropy means, understanding that the culture involves even on the board level that boards have to be involved in the process of thinking through what their fiduciary responsibility, why it's so important even for them to give to the idea because buy-in is difficult if the board doesn't support it 100%. Being able to quantify the value is a complete and total buy-in from everyone who is internal to the organization. That is a mindset shift. It is a culture that has to be cultivated. It has to have been there and sitting around the table making sure that everyone understands the value of the organization, understands the value of that particular community of people because again, yeah, we can quantify numbers. But those numbers represent people, and those people are the ones that have the issues. Understanding and feeling out why it is so important to activate that voice and being able to connect on a donor level to the individuals being impacted is important. The organization, the people in that organization, the board and the members, all those who are a part are a part of something else bigger and greater happening. Those kinds of things, when they are happening and filled with momentum, it is easier to get the kind of quantifiable results that we are talking about. It is easier to begin to do that, and where the community is seeing it through everything that is written and written well through the newsletters, through all these things that are showing people what is happening, they are constantly involved. That is also creating a culture around that particular organization. The more that they know about what's happening, the greater the instances they will continue to give. That organization is not just a one-time giving opportunity. You want this to be a sustained relationship in that good or bad you have where we need to grow, you have the stakeholders meeting. Those kinds of things need to constantly happen so that it will increase opportunities for organizations and charities to give. That is what I see as far as that is concerned. My particular experience over the years is being the lone ranger so to speak, being that lone grant writer and desiring to have a team around me that I can continue to train in the classroom is one thing, but in my business, to have that as I have been working with these people over the years, I understand why it's so important now. Being that lone ranger, like you said earlier, receiving all of these grants and all of these people who want that services by myself, is daunting. It is very overwhelming. Understanding why it is so important to have a team to surround the board, the team to surround the individual who is interested in making an impact in the community, is so very important. I am glad for that question because that speaks to the heart of getting the kinds of results and those statistics that will grow and follow that organization so that they stay open and ready to continue to receive the funding that they need. That is what you read often. I read an article just recently that said before you become a nonprofit, read this. Don't do it. Find other ways to do it because it is daunting, it is overwhelming if you think that there is only one way to go about funding, and you are trying to do it on your own. This is an excellent question for the culture has to be developed. A culture for philanthropy, a culture for giving. Russell: It is. I just got another question from Jolyn. She says that, “I have been a lone ranger for too long and am ready to create a team and need to know where to start.” Giselle: Tell her to call me. My number is- hahaha. Jolyn, will you be on my team? She needs first of all, and I am building my infrastructure as well. In putting myself out there, I am attracted to so many people who have such great gifts. But you need some skilled writers on your team. You have to duplicate yourself at least three or four times. You need to have a few people who are skilled. You also need to have someone who is your accountant, someone who is good at putting together a budget. That is a very big part of this. Then someone who understands data. Your question about being able to measure growth, you need people who are experienced in that to be on your team; someone who can look at data management is a critical role. Having someone who deals with that, and then it would not hurt to have a good fundraiser, someone who can sell you the bottled water that you already have beside you. There are some people who are just gifted at that. But to have someone who doesn't mind going out and being the face of the organization, you need someone like that. just a few people around you, and then you will continue to grow. It wouldn't hurt for you to also consider some interns. Get interns. I launched an internship and had the pleasure of working with some dynamite young people. I have worked many places, so it wasn't difficult for me to make a couple of phone calls and get some recommendations for some young people who are gifted. The areas that I used them is not just for writing, but I also began to train them in sales. I had a young person who was my PR representative. She was fantastic. Then another one who was very good at technology and web design. Those things help. Then all of them being part of this younger millennial generation, they were all social-media savvy. That helped. Someone who is gifted at that as well. All those key parts were to help the organization because all those things are needed to help put them into the forefront of the community. Jolyn, call me. We can talk. We can continue to talk. Russell: Make sure you get the number. Giselle can put that number in the chat. Another question that Jolyn had was: How do I get people to come on board when I don't have funds to pay them? Giselle covered some of that masterfully. There are opportunities out there where you have students, internships. There are opportunities to get pro bono work if you have an idea how to do that. Worth exploring pro bono as a means. Pro bono is not great for anything you need in a hurry, but pro bono is another opportunity for you to get services. When the whole concept of pro bono was launched, it was centered around the legal profession. But any type of professional organization or any type of profession almost bar none today, you can find some organizations that do pro bono work. That is something that you can talk with Giselle about. I'd be happy to talk with you about that if you have questions on that as well. That is very important. Thank you for that. Giselle: Fantastic. Russell: The word “culture” is something that you used. I read a study that was centered around funding. They took a sample of about 2,700 nonprofits of all sizes to find out what sort of fundraising practices they had. There was a lot of reliance on the development director, or there is a single person that a lot of them rely on, usually the development director. This person, they didn't all have processes set up because fundraising is an all-hands-on-deck adventure for nonprofit. Oftentimes, it's left to one person, and there is not what they call a culture of fundraising, which is having everybody that is associated with the organization participate in that. It starts with leadership, particularly your board of directors. Talk a little bit about that importance of having your leadership be involved and how a culture of fundraising can help you be more sustainable. Giselle: Another excellent question. Having all of your leadership on board is critically important. I believe that the buy-in that can be shown on the outside is critically important. Culture has to do with personality also, the personality of the organization. You attract people who are most like you. The organization itself as you embark upon events in the community and those things that you want to help promote the idea that you have, it is best to operate as the team and not just a one-person show. That is not the way it should be handled. I appreciate the study that you've mentioned and that you increase your opportunities to be successful when you are approaching it from the partnership, from the group approach, as opposed to that lone ranger. You increase your opportunities. That is what is really all about. Even the collaboration between organizations that are like-minded shows that you really have the community at the center of what you're doing and not just your individual organization, but you're wanting to collaborate, you're wanting to partner. That in and of itself can change a community. The personality of the community as well, knowing that people are there to help them, people are there who do care about their particular needs. Those things are important. Yes, operating as a board, being trained as a board, going together to receive the same knowledge, puts them all in a better position to make a greater impact. I agree wholeheartedly with that study. I have not read that, but I agree with it wholeheartedly. I do. I am messing up my screen, Russ. Do you see something over here to the right? Russell: No, I don't. You haven't shared your screen with the audience, so you're okay. Culture of fundraising, there are a lot of different types of cultural mindsets. One is a culture of innovation. That is an organization that always wants to try new things. A culture of learning. That is an organization that invests in development, in building your people. That is the opportunity you have to offer some of your volunteers, or as we like to call them, servant leaders. Development, and it can be training in a specific area that is of interest to them. These are things, when you don't have cash that you can offer development opportunities, you can offer opportunities for people to exercise their creativity and build a portfolio. It would be a wonderful opportunity for a student of marketing to come in and build a social media strategy. Giselle: Oh my goodness, yes. Russell: They get to put that in their portfolio, and you get some expertise from people that are learning. You have undergraduate students who can work as interns, and you have graduate students that can work as fellows for more robust studies and this type of thing. The opportunity to get support really rests in what people value. The word “value” is something that more people associate with business. I don't hear people talking in terms of value. When somebody sets up a profit-making business, they do it to deliver something of value that people will pay for, that they can offer at a profit. This is what we're doing. We have to operate at a profit, and it's called surplus in nonprofit circles. The bottom line is the same regardless of your tax status. If more money goes out the door than comes in, you're done. Or after a period of time. It's about sustainability and keeping the steady flow of funds coming in. A lot of people look at grants, but there are so many funds to come in through other means, too. Grants are something that people associate with nonprofits, but when you get in-kind services, such as pro bono, that is a different matter. You get sponsorship. Individual donations come in a lot of forms. There are current checks. But individuals may plan for when they are away, they want to leave a legacy. So you have planned giving. You have capital campaigns. You have all sorts of things. There are a lot of things that you can do. It's important to have a diverse base of funds. But you have got to build relationships to get those. A lot of people think in terms of grants. Giselle, what sort of things have you done with people that you go in to write grants for to help them be more sustainable? I know when people talk to you initially a lot of times they are thinking in terms of grant funds. But there are other options. How do you help people explore those other options? Giselle: Let's say that first grant is not funded, or somehow something happens and they don't get their 501(c)3 in time, they wonder what they can do in the interim. Well, in those cases, I have worked with the organizations to partner with another organization with a 501(c)3 to serve as a fiscal sponsor. As a matter of fact, that occurred about a year and a half ago with an organization. They are just coming back from Brazil now, but the Global Missions Group has partnered with a church inside Silo City. Silo City is serving as a fiscal sponsor so that they would have the sponsorship they needed in order to write those grants. But they also have a very robust, as you say, board. They have each invested a certain amount so it could sustain those short trips that are taken in order for them to do the exploratory kinds of work because they build churches in Brazil. They do that to make sure those kinds of operations occur. Then they go out and seek those sponsorships, those people in the community and from the churches that are like-minded, that are missions-oriented, and they pledge those. They become their own rope. They have their *audio interruption* and they ask for donations that way. When you have something that is pressing, and the grant is low-hanging, it's out there, you can't get to it, but you know there are things you need to do, you have to get creative. Like you said, you have to be innovative. You have to come up with some creative ways quickly to go get what you need. That one organization, I want to use them as the exemplar. They are wonderful. They have come up with strategic partnerships. I have helped them to cultivate that and behind the scenes to create all the documentation they need in order to do it. But they have their street team. They go out and visit these churches. They carpool. They go where they need to go and to spread their particular program or the mission of their program, and they made it happen. Then grant dollars started coming in. But all of those things working in concert helped. They are one organization that made it work against all odds. They knew what they needed to do. They believe strongly that their particular organization has something to do for the building of God's kingdom. They wanted to spread the word by building churches in places where the word is not shared. They were about business. They are two retired gentlemen. They knew that was their purpose, and they brought me on to help to be that person to help them find all of the resources necessary. We had all kinds of campaigns. They sold T-shirts. You name it, they did it. They used social media. They had the street team. They had their passion, their heart; they wore it on their sleeves. Everywhere they went, people gave. People gave because they believed and had evidence to show that they had done this and that more work needed to be done, that their mission is far from being over because there are still people who are unreached. That is an example of what is done in the face of not perhaps receiving that grant or when you are in waiting mode but there are people out there, organizations out there, who will serve as fiscal sponsors. You have those who come up with multiple fundraising ideas and then they began to implement those. The more passionate you are about what it is that you do, you have to be creative and think outside the box. That is where I come in to make sure that the written pieces, the documentation, follows their dreams, follows their action plan, follows everything. The sustainability part, that was a part of your question as well. On the other end, sustainability, to follow up reporting is important. People forget that, and their organizations end up being audited because they are not turning in the paperwork that is needed to follow up what they have done. You are funded, but then you have these periodic reports that have to be submitted. You have to show what you are accomplishing via newsletter, whatever it is to show the community and those people who have given what you're doing. That has to continue. The Write Source has been that follow-up aid for technical writing as well. My work continues to follow the organization. I have done that with these organizations that I help. It doesn't stop with getting the grant. You have to have a sustainability plan in place. You have to include in your budget those contractual fees that cover periodic evaluations. From the funders, you have to give way to them coming to visit your site. They are a part of the process. They are a part of your big picture once you see that funding. All of those pieces are important to understand upfront that just wanting a grant involves multiple layers. Understanding those layers will equip them to be able to receive it and continue to receive in the future. Yes, sir, you are exactly right. Russell: There is an awful lot packed in what you said. It really starts with, as you put things together, talking with people who you are going to serve, people who will pay for your programs. It's really understanding what is important to people. Keep your measures down to the things that are most important. If you design the program carefully so that it's not an extra burden on the people delivering services, but actually collect information, you will have more success, and there are ways to do that. This business of collaboration is going out and bringing other entities in. When you look at in your foundational process, the skills that you have on hand and the skills that you may have gaps with, that helps you bring collaborative partners because when you have core inner values that are alike, and you get these complementary skillsets, you can work together. Everybody is working to their strengths, not trying to fill weakness. Everybody is doing what they do best. That increases the leverage exponentially that you have working together to actually get some impact. It is critical to collaborate with other people in that way. Bring that impact forth. It's a wonderful way to go about doing things. Working with other people is important. I did put Dr. Jones-Jones' phone number in the chat. Giselle: Thank you. Russell: You have an onsite link for an automated calendar, don't you? I want to put it out there on Facebook and in the chat so people can go to that automated scheduler and book time with you. Giselle: I am going to let that happen in a few minutes because I do want to make that available. Yes, sir. Russell: Automation is important. Technology is our friend when it works. Giselle: When it works, yes, sir. Russell: When it works, it's a thing of beauty. Giselle: I see that she says she doesn't see the phone number. Okay. Russell: I typed it in. Scroll up to about 12:44. I put it in about 13 minutes ago in the chat. Giselle: Okay. Russell: I can copy it again and put it up again. Giselle: Wait a minute, I see that. Russell: I will put it back in there because there have been a lot of comments in there and the feed has been scrolling away. That is how folks get ahold of you. It's really been a pleasure. I'm thankful to all of our panelists, to all of our folks who have attended and asked a lot of great questions. There is a toll-free number there, 888-426-2792. I need to get that in the comment section of Facebook as well. This hour has gone very quickly. What sort of closing thoughts do you want to leave our audience with today? Giselle: Again, the need for a team approach to proposal writing, I can't express that enough, having been one who has experienced the burden by herself, who has also been successful, and I'm thankful for that. Having worked with organizations and having them funded close to a million dollars speaks to the gift that I have and how I have been able to use it over the course of these 20 years. But I think having the team approach, now having more who are on the board, understanding how important it is, and even with the collaboration with Hugh and SynerVision, just how many more people we are going to be able to impact. I am excited about those possibilities. I am excited about this collaboration with SynerVision because I know that he is moving forward, and you are moving forward, Russell. I believe that our paths, this is destiny. You are already on that path, and my path has joined yours. You are moving forward and upward. You are impacting people. Now utilizing the skillset that I have, I believe that we are going to really make a difference in a lot of people's lives. The world needs us. A lot of people are hurting in the world. I do believe that at the heart of nonprofits and the heart of charities, they do have a heart for the people. That is how I see myself. I am a person who helps the people who want to help. What greater legacy could one leave in knowing that I have given myself and my life and my skillset I was given- I have been given this skillset. To be able to use it in a way, a meaningful way, to help organizations that have this fear of writing these proposals and understanding that is just one of many ways to go about giving the resources, now being a part of SynerVision and helping to create this infrastructure that will be there to support the people that come through SynerVision and are trained and the local implementation to know that you have a god in between to help make that happen. I couldn't be happier. I couldn't feel any more in position and aligned to do greater things. I tell my students all the time, “Just use me.” I know that's bad. But I am at that place. “Just use me.” Use me. I am a student. I am still learning. As a matter of fact, I learned a great deal on this podcast today from you, Russell. I stand greater because of this experience. I am humbly here. I am one who is willing to serve. I am here. Russell: Dr. Giselle Jones. It's really been a pleasure to have you here. I am looking forward to working with you to serve other people. These phone numbers out here for those of you who are watching on Facebook and would like to speak with Giselle at greater length, 888-426-2792, toll-free. Or 336-681-1863, local, to Greensboro, North Carolina area. If you want to discuss other matters, you can book a discovery session with me. We can do it live or online. Go to bit.ly/bookruss. Get yourself on my calendar. Let's talk. Synervision Leadership, we are building the community. We are building our online offerings. There will be much more to come. We will be doing live events in your area somewhere in 2018 as we roll out SynerVision, and we will have more webinars, online offerings, and such. Go to www.thewritesource.org for more information. This is Russ Dennis and Hugh Ballou thanking all of you who have joined us on Facebook. Be sure to tune in next week. We will have a panel on diversity where we will talk about diversity and how that strengthens nonprofits. Until next week on the Nonprofit Exchange, this is Russ Dennis. For those of you who are on Facebook and would care to join me, there is the Nonprofit Culture of Success show that we run weekly. That is something I host tomorrow. Dr. David Gruder is my guest. Next Wednesday, our own Hugh Ballou will be my guest. Thank you once again, and I look forward to seeing you again next week on the Nonprofit Exchange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Interview Transcription Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it’s Hugh Ballou. My guest today is a long-time friend and colleague, Linda Ruhland. Linda has a lot of superpowers. She’s got some unique gifts. Not alone from those gifts is her wonderful, pleasing personality and her wisdom for things that aren’t common in life. I have enjoyed working with Linda over the years and have enjoyed her insights into things that challenge other leaders. Linda, welcome to the podcast today. Linda Ruhland: Thank you, Hugh. I am very honored to be here. It is a privilege to be among the people you have interviewed because I have been following your podcast for a while. There are some pretty impressive folks who have shared this stage. My company, Spirit of Success, is something you are familiar with. We have worked together for a long time now. Hugh: Yeah, yeah. I prefer not to do these dry introductions for people, so I’m going to let you go ahead with that track. Tell us about Spirit of Success, and tell us about Linda Ruhland and how you’ve developed this skill and got you to where you are now. Linda: Okay. Spirit of Success was an inspiration a few years ago. Basically, we’re coming out of a tough economy back in 2010, and that continued. We slowly came out of what people are often now lovingly referring to as the new norm. From that, I wanted to see what could happen to really jumpstart us in terms of business and inspiration and, with all the change we have going on in society and in the workplace, what doesn’t change. From my point of view, the idea was that the spiritual drive, the commitment that we have, the energy we have within us, is the one unchanging factor. That is where the name came from. Since that period of time, I and a group of colleagues, friends, and associates have put together ideas on a website or two, one of them being spiritofbusinesssuccess.com, where we discuss success stories, and solve or at least share ideas on solving problems of common issues with regards to business and workplace issues that advance business, based on where we go with those in the shoe tips. Hugh: You have a new book out. I know something about this book. Linda: You are in it. Hugh: Yeah, I’m in it. What prompted you to want to put a book out? There are lots of books out. What’s the specific niche? What’s the title of the book? What’s it all about? Linda: The title of the book is Amazing Workplace. And the workplace of course with business is where everything comes from. It’s where success is really evolving from. It’s no big secret. If you look at some of the Gallup findings, 70% of people are disengaged at work. You couple that with the fact that 51% of the people who are at work are looking for other jobs and contrast that with the fact that we are in a declining job market and new business start-ups are declining. We have horses going in the wrong direction. Hugh: Wow. That’s not one problem; that’s a series of problems. Let me recap that. The Gallup poll, and they have been doing it for years, and they consistently come back to around 70% of the work force is disengaged or actively disengaged. They equate to the $500 billion in lost profits. You throw out another number. How many people are looking for another job? Linda: 51% of everybody at work today right now is looking for a different job. Hugh: Wow. And that’s primarily the business, the corporate sector, correct? Linda: That’s business across. That’s another Gallup finding in the same report. Hugh: Because the numbers are even higher in the nonprofit sector, but the business sector, that is pretty alarming. I don’t know if leaders really fully grasp the importance of that. We got this thing turned around, where we as leaders, CEOs, COOs, whatever, we think all those people depend on us. But really, we depend on them. Linda: Yes. Hugh: We need to preserve our work force. You’re in business to help people solve problems, right? Linda: Yes. I am in business to really create more of a positive- If it comes right down to it, I want to see people happy and healthy and really experiencing rewarding work lives because it relates to everything in life. We spend too much time at work not to be happy with it. Hugh: Oh my word. A third of your life. Eight hours a day. Linda: Yeah. Hugh: Wow. So what is it that you have that helps people improve? What are they working on? What are they improving? Linda: If we are talking about Amazing Workplace, which has been a focus right now with Spirit of Success, Amazing Workplace delves into what your colleague Dr. David Gruder had pointed out some of the less talked about nuances that really make a difference with workplace success. When you think about it, the things that happen at workplaces, the workplace is a canvas. That canvas is painted by what comes into the room, so the people, the mindsets, the attitudes that come into the room; the structure, the framework within which the business is created; the communication, so how is the focus, how is the rest of that business communicated; and then the ability, or lack thereof, of people to work together. When I started interviewing friends, colleagues, professionals in this arena, I found there is so much that can be done, that should be done, to make a difference. In fact, you can just pick one that works for you. I interviewed 12 thought leaders or gurus on different subjects pertaining to work. As a result of those interviews, I divided the areas of concentration in the book into three separate sections or chapter leads. One section has to do with personal care and self-esteem. The second section has to do with culture and communication. The third has to do with collaboration and team-building. Within each of these is an overview of areas that you as a leader or as an individual, an employee can do. The employee, the person who comes to work, has so much more influence than I think any individual gives him/herself credit. That’s really what the first section of the book is all about. We have Jean Bernet talking about nourishment. We deal with a lot of nutritional issues in this society. We talk about what are the right calorie amounts, avoiding that. But are we talking about nourishment? Her perspective is that the individual chemistry is a little bit different, and each of our bodies, if we start to learn to listen to them and pay attention to them, has a different set of chemistry that works in favor or against. The other thing that she mentions is that we are doing things to harm ourselves in the workplace. We are working so hard that we skip meals. We skip the opportunity to drink enough water. We are so focused on how we look that we forget about how we feel. That is the first avenue: What are you doing for your body? It doesn’t involve so much as complicated or physically athletic things, but just good self-care. Another perspective that my friends have inspired my thinking about- Julie Hill, who used to work for Horst Rechelbacher, the founder of Aveda Institute, says that with all the supermodels she worked with over the years, she found one thing in common: They lacked personal self-esteem. They were always paranoid about how they looked and how they were received. She said it goes a long way to just have that feeling of accepting yourself. She goes into some details and examples about how that can work for you in the workforce. You get to what our friend Jane Sanders talks about in regard to handing outs. Handing outs may be woo-woo, but when you consider the fact that a thumbprint or fingerprint contains a lot of data and information that is very commonly used to identify a person, now multiply that by all the fingers in the palm of the hand, and you realize there is a mapping system to the neural network of every individual’s brain. What she uses that information for is to ascertain, to tell people, what it is their strengths are, give them some positive feedback or affirmations of things they might know about themselves, or sever some details that may not have come to the forefront yet for them. That is a very quick skimming of what the first section of this book is all about: self-care and self-esteem. The next section is about communication and culture. My friend, are you there? Hugh: I’m here. I’m just trying to tell people that we also record the podcast in video on YouTube. I put a cover of the book up for people to look at. It’s stunning. I don’t know what you call that image on the front, but it pulls you into the vortex there to get your interest. I’m really fascinated by how you have divided up the different sections in this book. Sorry to interrupt you. This is great. I want to give people a visual. You can find the video on the Hugh Ballou YouTube channel. Go ahead, Linda. Linda: You bring up the cover. The cover is something that my designer and I worked on from the perspective of all the different things that go into making a workplace. We were looking for an image that represented that infusion or vortex where all these different ideas, colors, and personalities and factors combine into something that is utterly creative. As a result of those combinations, when you think about it, there is so much that can be changed or manipulated or made better. That is what we are looking for. That is what we are seeking in regard to Amazing Workplace. We talk a little bit about the culture with regards to communication. There are so many entrepreneurs in particular who have a strong vision of where they want to be or where they want to go. Those who really laser focus on what they want to do, do it and have great success with it. But sometimes they miss their people in the process. They have to bring them with. That is what this section is all about. What are you communicating? How are you framing what you do as a company? This pertains to little companies and great big corporate entities. How do you frame what you do as an organization so as to empower the individuals to take part in that, to help that along? If they have to wing it, what are the chances of them getting it right? What are the chances of you organizing this into something that is really moving in a very specific direction? It’s not good. Secondly, if you have those pieces in place, and somebody provides you with some contrast, we call it sometimes conflict resolution. Kit Welschland talks about the fact that you should look at it not necessarily as conflict confrontation, but an opportunity to create a new perspective, a new way, like the cover shows, to mix things up again and come up with different positive results. Hugh: Give me the three sections again of the book. The first section is about…? Linda: The first section is about self-care and confidence. Hugh: The second one? Linda: The second one is communication and culture. And the third section is team-building and collaboration. Hugh: Now I know that you have formal education and extensive expertise and background in marketing. Linda: I do. Hugh: It would occur to me that there is some internal marketing that needs to happen from the visionary leader to market to the people so we really understand we don’t have a culture because people haven’t been tied into the vision. Marketing is acquainting people with the value that you have, letting them be aware of where you are going and the pieces that you offer. It just came to me in the middle of what you were saying. Reframing marketing internally. Am I off track yet, or is that part of your thing here? Linda: Not at all. A couple of things on that topic. There is a section in the book by Ed Bogle about, as he puts it, writing for the brand. Getting people engaged in the idea with what this entity is and having some pride and ownership over it. Connected to that with what Spirit of Success is doing, we are making some observations here about what marketing looks like in our current scenario. We talked about the success platform. Success platforms, we are looking at the fact that marketing is no longer ready, aim, shoot. Target marketing and the scientific demographics and putting that value proposition out there is all well and good, but with the Internet having become the mainstay of people’s social communication and entertainment and everything else it seems, we have increased people’s decision-making capabilities exponentially. Those decisions are no longer just focused on the utility of an item or product; it’s more focused on how that makes them feel. The emotional value has gone way up in the scale of importance in terms of a decision. They want to know who you are, what you produce, why you produce it, why they should like you, and why they should buy from you; they want to feel connected to you. We just want to be connected. This is so much again almost a copy of what is happening in the workplace. You are selling that whole system, that success platform within the organization to the people who work with you so they can communicate it and amplify it out to the public, to their friends and family and beyond. You as a company do the same thing. We are becoming more of the same really. That is what a business is after all. We call it all sorts of different things. It’s got that different kind of patience and movies and the news, but ultimately, business is and always has been an entity. It’s a brief reflection of our humanity. Hugh: Ah, very well put. When we wrote this book, who were we writing it for? Linda: We were writing it for mainly anybody who was in a leadership position to influence a team of people. That is where you came in, with regard to teamwork. Hugh: You mentioned Ed Bogle. Ed is a master strategist and understands strategy. Ed and I work together in the integration of strategy and performance. People want to write a plan, and as Ed puts it, it becomes credenzaware until we make it come alive. There is an interaction there that must take place. Building the team around the strategic framework that Ed creates. You mentioned Dr. David Gruder. Both of them have been on my podcast. David and I are colleagues. I work with David as well on culture. We understand this. I think you are bringing points up that most people I experience don’t recognize. They might give it some superficial thought here and there. They don’t bring it into, It’s real for me, and it’s really impacting my bottom line. As you know, this Orchestrating Success podcast, its subtitle is “Converting Passion to Profit.” Leadership as a pathway to profit. Profit may not be our main focus, but profit is our main product that we need to feed ourselves. We feed ourselves by helping people solve problems by bringing value to others. We really need to focus on how we are going to drive that value, and the reciprocal of that is bringing the value back to us, which is revenue that helps us create the lives that we want. Everybody in the system contributes to the system, whether it’s good or bad. You mentioned David Gruder. We deal with situations where there is conflict. What I have learned from him and from life and my studies of the work of Murray Bowen and Bowen leadership principles is that everybody in a culture contributes. If there is conflict, everybody contributes. If there is a wholesome culture, everybody contributes. Part of my journey is helping leaders reframe leadership because they have learned it wrong. You have a goldmine of resources in this book and in programs that all of those authors offer, I’m sure. I know I have programs, and you probably have others. You not only have your programs, but you have the aggregate of all the value that all of your authors and all of the people you represent with Spirit of Success offer. What is your biggest challenge when you are talking to leaders in helping them be self-aware, helping them recognize there is something missing? What do you think is the biggest barrier for them understanding? Linda: There is so much noise out there. As I mentioned earlier, as a lot of the authors, which is really an interesting phenomenon, because each of these authors has a different focus, there is definitely a correlation that happens as you read the book and see that it all strings together. The noise out there as far as what the solution is gets confusing. I believe particularly after composing this book, which I couldn’t have done without all the insights of all the authors, is that it really is unique the organization. Pick one. Pick the area of focus that you think could really make a difference for you, that you feel could make a difference for you, and then go there. Do that. Don’t worry about what everybody else is telling you to do. Don’t run after other people’s advice. You always miss because they don’t know you and your organization as well as you know your organization. But go out there, be selective, and you be the decision-maker as to where you are going to work. With all of these different things mixed into the pot that creates your workplace, there is a lot that can be done. If you try to take on too much, it is not going to do well for you. Hugh: The book is sort of in my mind the tip of the iceberg. You have a lot of resources that are connected to the book, but the book is sort of your business card for each of us that are in there. It’s the tip of awareness. What do you hope people will gain by reading this book? Linda: My hope is that people will wake up to all the opportunities that they have before them to make a difference. They feel and know that they have the power to do something. Like I mentioned earlier, you could be an individual on a team, or you could be leading the team. In either case, you have a great deal of influence over the success of what is happening for you. Furthermore, if you go back to those Gallup findings, realize that in looking elsewhere, if you spent a little bit of that time looking at yourself perhaps and realizing that there is something I can do here for myself now, that is empowering. A lot of people do realize there is so much they have available to them that they won’t need to feel overwhelmed. They will feel good in the organization they are already in and all of a sudden find themselves to be more highly valued. Sometimes that is hard to believe at first, but if you open your mind to the opportunity, you’d be surprised sometimes. Hugh: That to me is the biggest barrier: an open mind. I do find that leaders that think they know it all are dangerous. They not only limit their own success, but they also limit the success of the organization. John Maxwell has in his 17 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership the law of the lid, which is your organization cannot develop any further than your own ability. My work as you know is around helping leaders develop the ability to lead the team. If you have a great time and can’t lead them, then they will get tired and leave, get frustrated and leave, turn against you and be angry. Reading the book is a way to gain some self-awareness, would it not be? Linda: Absolutely. Becoming aware of yourself and the details that happen, the wonderful things that can happen on your team if you pay attention. Hugh: They can find the book on Amazon. Amazing Workplace. The subtitle is: Creating the Conditions that Inspire Success. I wanted to have you on this podcast because we resonate so much in the philosophies of how things work. You said there is a lot of noise out there, and there are a lot of quick-fix solutions. Do this and you will make money. It hadn’t really done anything to create sustainable revenue or create a sustainable enterprise or create more skill in the leader to create a sustainable team. We want to look for something now. I don’t have time to learn. Well, you ought to spend some time because you could do a major transformation of yourself and your organization if you plug into some of these themes. I am fascinated with the nutrition piece because that is a hot button for me: to make sure I am doing my best. In order to do my best, I have to be on top of my game. If I eat crappy food, I am not on my game. I have eaten good food so long that when I have eaten a bad meal, my body tells me. No, no, Ballou, what are you doing to me? Ed talks about strategy, and I talk about teamwork. It’s been such a long time that I forgot. You have been good at pre-doing the book way before launch and getting the content in. Mine is about creating the team. Is that what it was about? Linda: Yours is about orchestrating the team. The whole section on teamwork is an interesting thing because a lot of it circles back. Within this section on teamwork, for example, Dan Nelson, who was a Heisman trophy nominee, he is now the athletic director at the University of California Irvine and was at Stanford for a number of years. He talks about three seminal concepts that the team section is all about. Be in good shape, steady, and learn. Your section on teamwork has to do with being that leader, orchestrating that success, making sure that people are paying attention and listening to one another and are ready to act and respond in a very specific way. Billy McLachlan brings in the fact that you have to be in tune first before you can listen to others. He brings another flavor to that if you will, but being in the set and listening to one another, or as you put it, being in the conductor seat and being sure that the people who are on your team are ready to perform. It is all fascinating combinations. Again, amazing correlation from different thought leaders from different perspectives. Hugh: Very different areas. Billy and I are both musicians. He is a crazy dude, too. He is very gifted. He has a whole different schtick, but leadership shows up nevertheless in what we do. Music by the way is a right and left brain function. It is very structured, and we have to be creative in the structure. What you are helping me realize is that creating the amazing workplace is understanding the elements of culture. How do we create the system that people can be creative in? A lot of leaders feel like if you create too much of a strategy and a system, then it stifles creativity. I say to them the antithesis of that is true. The system is a container for creativity. If you have this container, then you can put all the focus on your creativity. What Billy and I understand intuitively is you have this structure for music, which is very rigid and unforgiving, very mathematical and precise, then once you have that in place, you can make the magic happen and the creative part happen. I really admire the work of Ed Bogle, who has a chapter in here, and the gift of strategy. It’s really a gift if you have spent the time to clarify where you are going and how you are going to get there. My piece of putting the team together. I was pleased when you asked me to do the book. I didn’t really get it, and you were very patient with me to help me to figure it out. You had it in your mind and got me on the path. I am grateful to be in the book. I am also grateful to be a collaborator with Spirit of Success. I have heard lots of nuggets in this podcast that have given me a reason to upgrade my thinking. My whole perspective on this podcast is yes, leadership is converting your passion to profit, leadership is that pathway to success. Profit has more meaning than money. Money is the commodity we must have when we are in business. We must have that quantifiable financial result. You have given me some nuggets to think about. I really want to give you a final piece to give people a challenge, a tip, a closing thought as we close out this podcast. I’d like people to look at the book not only because I’m in there, but also because there are a lot of things I think are missing in the marketplace for leadership development. There are a lot of books on leadership out there, but there is not a book just like this one with the amount of resources. Linda, as we end this podcast, you have given us some valuable nuggets today. What do you want to leave people with, as we are ending this podcast? What is your wish for people? What impression do you want to give people as you leave this? Linda: You mentioned a couple times throughout our time here this morning that profit is an important thing, but these are important, too. I reflect back to some of the words that Ed had said in the strategic planning portion or human element of strategy portion of this book. That is: If you focus on these areas, if you get your people playing together correctly, if you have your vision in hand and people are writing for the brand, the profits will come. So we are not separate from profits. This is the foundation of surge in profits. It’s just another way of looking at it. Hugh: Linda Ruhland, Spirit of Success. The book is Amazing Workplace: Creating the Conditions that Inspire Success. It’s on Amazon. You can pick up a paper version. What about Kindle? Linda: Kindle is to come in the next week or so. Hugh: By the time this podcast hits the street, it will be live. I love Kindle. Linda Ruhland, thank you for making time to share your wisdom with the world. Linda: Thank you, Hugh.
David Corbin: Keynote Speaker, Business Adviser, President of Private and Public Corporations, Inventor, Mentor and pretty good guy…..David M. Corbin has been referred to as “Robin Williams with an MBA” because of his very practical, high relevant content speeches coupled with entertaining and sometimes side splitting stories. A former psychotherapist with a background in healthcare, he has served as management and leadership consultant to businesses and organizations of all sizes – from Fortune 20 companies to businesses with less than 1 million – and enjoys the challenges of all. He has worked directly with the Presidents of companies such as AT&T, Hallmark, Sprint as well as the Hon.Secretary of Veterans Administration and others. http://davidcorbin.com Notes from the interview: Why is it important for nonprofits to be clear about their brand? You have a brand. If you don't work at defining it, your audience will. You create an impression by your actions, intent does not stop that. Everything you do adds to the impression you create. Make believe you are always being observed and act accordingly. Audit your service by experiencing your deliverable. Would you do business with your organization? When working with people to build organization framework, when to we focus on brand promise? From the beginning. Why do we exist? Who do we serve? How do we want to be known? What do we really want? Who are we really? Everything we take on needs to fit who we are at the core! Do the Brand Audit right at the beginning(Before you deliver any services or approach anyone)! Team must be fully engaged all the way through. Quality and Clarity Determine Financial Results. Growth must start at an individual level for the organization to grow. People – The only completely renewable resource of any organization! (And the most valuable) Culture is a reflection of leadership! How Do Leaders Keep Our Internal and External Brands Fresh? Integrity – Living the values of the organization. Boss Watching – Biggest Sport! Model the behaviors the brand represents. Transformation consists of a series of small steps, often many of them! It starts with one in a row! Everything counts when it comes to integrity. Leader must lead by example. The Transcript NPC Interview with David Corbin Hugh Ballou: Greetings, this is Hugh Ballou. We are live with the Nonprofit Chat. Today, we have a guest who will bring energy to a lot of different topics tonight. David Corbin is a friend of ours. We have known each other for a number of years. This is the first time we have had a live interview, so welcome and thank you for being here. David Corbin: My pleasure. I'm happy to be a live interview. I hope the other ones weren't dead. What are you trying to say, Hugh? Hugh: You're a live one, man. I like guests to start out by telling people something interesting about yourself. Why do you do what you're doing, and what is your background that gave you… The few times you and I have had some deep conversations, I have really been impressed by the depth and breadth of wisdom that you have on these topics that you talk about. Give us a little paragraph or two about David Corbin. Who are you, and what brought you to where you are today? David: Well, I'm a human being. I'm not a speaker. I'm not an author. I'm not a doctor. I'm a human being, and I play the role of a keynote speaker, inventor, and mentor. I am a guy who loves life. What can I say? If there is a way- As I did yesterday, I had a client fly out from Mexico. The objective overall was for him to be happy, healthy, prosperous, and the like. I am the guy who likes to do that and likes to be that as the extent I can continue to learn and grow. I do all of those things. As you know, you have been in my audience, and I have been in yours. I love to share ideas from a platform. I like to consult with corporations at the highest levels and then solopreneurs. I love to run my 5K every Saturday, and I love to play tennis. I love to hang out in my backyard. I look out there, and I have chickens running around and a turtle in the pool. Life is great. Hugh: You're in San Diego, California. David: I am. Home of Tony Gwynn, the famous Padre. Today I was honored to be invited to the unveiling of his statue in our little town here. I was also with his family at Cooperstown at Baseball Hall of Fame as he was inducted with Cal Ripken. I am in southern California, San Diego. The town is called Poway. Hugh: Love it. The first time we met, we were in Lake Las Vegas, and you had just published Illuminate. You're not an author, but you write some really profound stuff. You actually were in a suit and tie that day. What inspired you to write that book, and what is it about? David: I'll tell you what it's about. It's about facing the reality of situations in our life and our business. You see, I have read the positive mental attitude literature, and I have had the honor of meeting Dr. Norman Vincent Peele and some of the luminaries in positive mental attitude. I am honored to be in the latest Think and Grow Rich book, Three Feet from Gold. Nowhere in that literature does it say ignore negative issues, that we should push them under the carpet as it were. I came to realize that my most successful clients were individuals who had the courage to face those issues, not just accentuate the positive as the song goes. But rather than eliminate the negative, I learned the key is to illuminate the negative in a model that I call “face it, follow it, and fix it.” That is what Illuminate is about. It came from the realization from practical experience, that whether it is a nonprofit, a for-profit, or a for-profit that doesn't intend to be a nonprofit but ends up that way, no matter who it is, the individuals who have the courage and the character to face the problems head-on, that is what I found to be the greatest model, and hence the title of Illuminate: Harnessing the Positive Power of Negative Thinking. Hugh: What I can count on if we are having conversations is the words coming out of your mouth are not what I can expect from anyone else, because David Corbin is one of the most creative people I have ever met. I remember when we were introducing ourselves at CEO Space one time, one person said they were a consultant, and then you came along and said, “I am an insultant,” and I said, “I'm a resultant,” and your head went, Whoosh. At least one time I one-upped you. David: It's on my website now. There is an asterisk at the bottom and says, “Maestro Hugh Ballou, genius extraordinaire.” Hugh: I am honored, David Corbin. I have not seen that. A resultant in a pipe organ is a pipe that is not as long. A sixteen-foot pipe has a certain pitch. They don't have space, so they miter it, and the result is a lower tone from a shorter pipe. We actually create a bigger result without having to be bigger ourselves. We can amplify the sound by what we do. You and I, I love this Illuminate. Two weeks ago, I talked to David Dunworth, who is also an author. He has quoted you. We talked about that. You illuminate a lot of people you maybe don't even know. It's really how we amplify what other people do. I'm just energized by the fact that you're here. You have another book that is new. You've written about brand slaughter. Is that the title? David: It is. I was just on the TV news this week talking about that. It was fun. The guy couldn't get over the title. The concept is- People create their brand based upon their values and the brand promise out to the world. They put a check off and think they're done. Don't stop there. You're either building your brand—you, your employees and everyone else in your organization—or killing it. Nothing is neutral. You are either engaged in brand integrity or engaged in what I call brand slaughter, just like manslaughter in the first, second, or third degree. We can read in the news that people are convicted of manslaughter, but you don't often see people convicted of brand slaughter, except maybe in the case of United Airlines or Pricewaterhousecooper in front of 30 million people after 87 years of great service to the Oscars. I don't know if it's brand slaughter. I think they can recoup from that. However, United Airlines is going to have a hard time coming back from that brand slaughter, wouldn't you agree? Hugh: I would. It's one that got highlighted in a series of really dumb things the airline has done. We're talking to passionate people who are providing amazing value but are limited by how people perceive us. I was talking to someone on a radio interview, and he said, “There is a charity in my area, but I quit giving because I really wasn't sure what was happening.” That is part of our brand promise, who we are and what we stand for. David: That's right. When we look at the organizations that part of our charter is to serve others in an amazing way, and there is no shortage of people in the giving field, those organizations are carrying a lot of weight for the society. They are making a promise out there. By and large, they are delivering. However, there are some actions and behaviors they either are taking or their management/leadership is taking or their front line people are taking—they are taking certain behaviors that are undermining the brand and the promise of the entire organization. It doesn't have to be that way. Look, I have had great experiences on United Airlines. I truly have. I love Gershwin, so when I hear that music, it pus me in a wonderful state. I have met some wonderful people. They are not just a group of dirtbags. However, the one person who carries the credibility and reputation of the organization pulled down the asset value of the corporation, the reputation of the corporation, and created for great humor, “United Airlines put the hospital back in hospitality,” such that Southwest Airlines came out and said, “We beat our competition, not our customers.” That kind of stuff is just going to keep going because of one guy making one bad move. I want to tell the leaders, managers, supervisors, and individuals who are carrying the torch of these organizations to do what I teach in this book called an ABI, an Audit of Brand Integrity. Have every one of your employees take a sheet of paper and write down the values, write down the brand, and then write down the touchpoints they have on a daily basis with the individuals they are touching: a customer, a fellow employee, a vendor. Everyone who is carrying that brand, and that individual looks at their touchpoints and asks themselves, “How does the brand live that touchpoint?” What could I do, what might I do, what should I do, what ought I do to really boost that brand? If the organization, let's say United Airlines because we are picking on them, but I can tell you two of them I experienced today alone. But I focus in on that one. If the CEO said, “Folks, this is our brand. We are doing a brand audit. After you do that audit, come back and tell us examples of how that brand is to live in your head. Maybe even tell us some examples of what you have observed in our organization when we have committed brand slaughter.” There is a statute of limitations. Nobody is going to get busted. But it helps us to see how the brand is alive and well and being fed and nurtured and supported, and on the other side, by the law of contrast, we can see where we have fallen down so we don't fall down that hole again. That would be an amazing solution. I implore everyone who is listening, whether you are running a nonprofit or not—maybe you are going to at some point but now you are a parent or a neighbor or a member of a church or synagogue—and ask yourself: What is your brand? How are you living that brand? I think when we get serious about this, we can't solve everything we face, but we can solve anything unless we face it. This is a way of facing the opportunity of building your brand asset value. I sound like a politician. I am David Corbin, and I endorse that message. Hugh: That's right. Your passion is contagious. Our friend from Hawaii, Eve Hogan, is watching on Facebook. We have a lot of people that we know. David, there are four million 501(c) somethings. There are 10's, 6's, 3's, and government organizations. There are all kinds of tax-exempt organizations. They are charities; they are social benefit organizations. Russell and I are on the campaign to eliminate the word nonprofit. Rather than defining ourselves by what we're not, which is not correct either—we do need to make a profit to make things happen—we are social benefit organizations. We leverage intellectual property. We leverage passion. We leverage the good works and products we have for the benefit of humankind. These nongovernmental organizations that we represent have a bigger job and more important job today than ever before. There is real confusion on the whole branding thing. I want to back up a minute to a question posted a few minutes ago. How can nonprofits eliminate their brand? But I think it's important for them to know why they even need a brand and why it is important to be clear about the brand. It's true for any organization, but we are talking to nonprofits. The reason we have top-level business leaders like you on this series is we need to understand good, sound business principles to install into these organizations that we lead. Why is branding important? How do we illuminate that into the communities that want to support us but need that information? David: Let's just say this. Whether you like it or not, you have a brand. Whether you know it or not, you have a brand. These scanners- I have a scanner over there. It's a Hewlett Packard. It doesn't compare to these scanners. *points to eyes* I have a computer that we're working through. It doesn't compare to this computer .*points to brain* Everyone is walking around with these scanners and this computer, and everything counts. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are creating an impression from the eye to the brain to the heart to the soul of who you are and what you're doing, whether you believe in it or not. I don't know if you believe in gravity or not, but if you walk off of any building in any town of any city, you are going down. It's an immutable fact. Now, thank you for the concept of the not-for-profit. Why talk about what we're not? That was brilliant. You open up my thinking. I thank you for that. I want to let all of my service providers know that everything that you do is creating an impression, whether you believe in it or not. Could you imagine if I came out and said, “I want to talk about hygiene and important it is?” *while sniffling and rubbing his nose and eyes* That would be absurd. I happen to have a 501(c)3 for anti-bullying called Anti Bullying Leadership Experience. Everything that we do is going to be carrying our mojo of the anti-bullying. Could you imagine if I started yelling at one of my vendors and pouncing on them and playing a power trip with them? That would be the antithesis of everything. The point I want to make is make believe that you are on the stage of a microscope and you are being observed in everything that you are doing because you are. And as soon as the leaders know that, they will start looking at things differently. You drive up to the parking lot, see what the front door looks like, see how you are greeted, and you are watching everything that is going on. God is my judge, I must tell you. Hugh, you know I am putting together a little wedding party for my daughter. I was at two places today, one of which the woman didn't show up to the appointment, and she needed to call me back, and she didn't later. One was a very famous place called L'Auberge Del Mar. It's five-star. When I called to make a room reservation there, I was there for seven and a half minutes before I even found someone. I eventually called the manager who called me back. I said, “I'm going to give you a gift. I would like you to call and try to make a room reservation and get the experience of what that's like.” She did. She called me back and goes, “My goodness, Mr. Corbin. I had no idea.” We need to audit all of these activities. Our service organizations, which do not have an unlimited budget that a lot of corporations might have today, must be efficient, must be effective. The best consultation you can get is from yourself experiencing your deliverables and that which it is you are bringing to the market. I just think that we don't have a lot of wiggle room for error. There is a wonderful book by Andy Grove who started a little company called Intel. You probably haven't heard of it. Andy wrote a book called Only the Paranoid Survive. I don't think he is suggesting that we walk around paranoid. I think he is suggesting a strong and deep introspection into what we are doing and how we are doing it. I want to punch that home. Please, please for the benefit of all whom you are serving and whom you could serve in the future, take this message seriously. Know that you have a brand. Live that brand. Make sure that everyone in your auspices know how they live that brand. Hugh: Those are wise words. Mr. Russell Dennis is capturing sound bites. He is very good at picking out things, and you have given him a lot of fresh meat today. David, you work with a variety of different kinds of clients, some of whom you and I both know. When you are working with them on building out the whole framework of the organization they are launching and growing, at what point do you hone in on this brand image, brand promise, brand identity? At what point in this process do you focus on that aspect? David: I believe strongly with begin in the end in mind. It's more than rhetoric. If you are a service organization, really ask the penetrating questions. 1) Why do we exist, and do we need to exist? 2) Who do we serve, and how do we serve them? 3) How do we want to be known? 4) What do we want somebody to yell over to the fence to their neighbor about our organization? When you have that, you work backwards from that. Business planning takes the existing business and carries it out into the future, but strategic planning envisions the future and works backwards from there. I take a deep dive of visualization. Actually, as you know, I am a graduate of Woodstock. I was there in 1969. So I can say not just visualization, but hallucination. I can really hallucinate on those questions. I just was in front of an audience in Atlanta and said, “What do you want? What do you really want?” I say that to businesses as I do strategic planning. Who are you? Who are you really? Then you know all of that. That is when you contemplate for your brand promise and the reputation that you want to earn because you can't demand it. Then when you do that, you get the confidence to move forward. You now have the gristmill, and everything must go through that. How does it go against our brand? Should we do that? Great, tell us how it fits into our brand. When someone does something that is off-target, how did that dent our brand, and what can we do to prevent that from happening again? In direct answer to your question, do this brand audit right form the get-go. I promise you not only does it give individuals a sense of ownership, but it gives them a sense of confidence because nobody wants to mess it up. In Europe, they take it down to the bottom line. When you ding the brand, you are actually pilfering money from the organization. Isn't that something? Imagine if we really own the brand. No one changes the oil when we rent a car because they don't have ownership. When people know what the brand is in their hands, they take ownership. What happens is when you collaborate with your people, you breed creativity and commitment. Now they are engaged, they are enrolled. Nothing can stop a service organization with passionate, engaged people. That is why I plug what you're doing, Hugh. Hugh: Thank you for that, David. That is such a vivid description of how we can upgrade our performance and upgrade the performance of the organization that we have a huge responsibility for as the leader. Perceiving ourselves as the leader doesn't mean we have to do everything. It does mean we need to be involved in the grassroots of what is going on so we can know what is actually happening. And what you talked about brings to mind that we build relationship with others in the organization. To me, that is the foundation of leadership, and it is also the foundation of communications. You gave the gift to the hotel manager that she didn't have because she was too busy doing the top-level things to get into the minutiae and figure out, Whoa, how do we look to the public? You could go to any big company in America and help them do an audit, and it would bring them immense value, probably within the first 30 seconds of your conversation. Part of what you described is part of this word that you have used, which is such a brilliant framing of how we- Everybody in Synervision is a leader. We lead from different perspectives, and we impact everybody else in the organization. We also represent the brand. We don't know who is going to go wild, like United Airlines. That was such a terrible thing for everybody, but it highlighted an underlying problem. Brand slaughter was what brought it to the fore. I bet that cost United a whole lot of money so far, not to mention future business. Let's take it back to the charities. We are doing work that impacts people's lives, sometimes saving people from drug addition or suicide or insanity. There are a lot of worthy things we are doing. We have elements going on that kill the brand. I love it when you talk about this brand slaughter thing. I'd like to put it back into context in what we're doing with this world of charities and how we need to contain this brand and empower our tribes to represent the brand and not be guilty of brand slaughter. Give us a little more food for thought, especially for charities. I work with churches, synagogues, community foundations, semi-government agencies. I find there is a similarity with everybody, that we are not aware of how the culture is represented by the people, and that brand slaughter is committed in minor ways, but also in bigger ways. I am going to shut up now and let you talk about brand slaughter and why that is so crucial for our charities. David: I look at it this way. I believe that the financial results of any organization is largely dependent on the quality of its people and the clarity of its people. Be it a service organization or otherwise, I believe everyone in the organization should create a circle. I don't mean hands holding. I mean draw a circle, a wheel with a hub and spokes. Every one of those spokes is an essential core job function for that person. If it's a leader, we know some of the spokes are delegation, communication, strategic thinking, and financial management. Those are all spokes. Whatever the position is, if you're an operating room nurse or a development manager for a service organization, you create that wheel and look at the spokes. When you do, you start rating yourself on those spokes. The hub means you're terrible. Outside at the end is a number ten. That is mastery. You get real serious with whoever you are, whatever your job is, and rate yourself on a scale of zero to ten. Where you are an eight or nine, great, pat yourself on the back. That is really cool. But don't stop there. Unfortunately, Americans tend to stop at the immediate gratification. Look at what I'm doing great. We say no. Focus in on the threes, fours, and fives. Set a goal to a six, eight, and nine, and close those gaps. I say that to my brothers and sisters who work in the serious world of service delivery. I mean what we would call service providers and not-for-profits or whatever you want to call them. When you get serious, and you rate yourself on a scale of one to ten in those areas, and you start closing those gaps, magic happens. You know what the magic is? You start building a momentum of growing yourself. You can't grow an organization unless the individuals are growing themselves. You show me an organization that does what I'm talking about: closing the gaps, setting personal goals, and getting more efficient and effective in what they do. I don't care if their building burns down; they could accomplish their mission in a tent. They could do it with dirt floors. They could do it anywhere. The saying is, “Wherever two or more people are gathered in His name, there is love.” Let me tell you. Whenever you have a leadership team and a management team that talks about building their people, the only renewable asset in an organization, no matter what happens, they will win. Every one of the employees increases their asset value. You invoke the law of control. People feel good about themselves in the extent they are moving in the direction of destiny. Their confidence goes up. Their competence goes up. People talk about going down the rabbit hole. Now you are going up this amazing spire into success, achievement, productivity, confidence, peace of mind, and self-esteem. I am passionate about that because I have seen it work. I help it work. I live it myself. I couldn't talk about it if I didn't live it, or else that would be a form of brand slaughter. Hugh: I can validate that. You live out the David Corbin brand. You illuminate the brand. Or you don't do it. You are very serious about being spot-on. You show up fully present. I have been doing the German ice cream thing. I am being Häagen-Dazs Mike. Russell, do you have a comment or a question for our guest tonight? Russell Dennis: It's a lot easier to tear a brand apart than it is to put it together. Look at United. Those guys have been around forever and a day. And in the space of a day, they have torn the whole thing down and trashed a lot of good wealth. It's very easy. Brand is about- it goes beyond a logo. People think of a logo when they think of a brand. It's not the logo; it's what is behind the logo that symbolizes something. I am going to pull a definition out of a book that a very wise man wrote, “The brand as is a tangible expression of top-performing culture comes to life when the elements including the mission are taken off the wall and put into daily action at all levels and through all individuals in the organization.” That is a big mouthful. Hugh: Who is the wise person that wrote that? Russ: Just some guy who is sitting around while we chat. Hugh: David Corbin wrote that. Russ: Brand slaughter, to me, is the ultimate thing. To say this is what we stand for and do something completely different. I think there are some people out there who are scrutinizing and are waiting for somebody to make a mistake. I have seen people do that. You run into those folks in a supermarket. People don't intentionally set out to fail, but it happens. These are things that are talked about in the Core Steps to Building a Nonprofit course. When it's building that foundation, they could lay all those things out. The time to figure out your brand is right at the outset. Who do we serve? What is in our wheelhouse? What do we have? What are we weak at? Where are our gaps? I think you have to hammer those strengths and work with them, but when you have a gap, that is where your recruiting starts. You recruit your advisors, you recruit your board. Or you look for collaborative partners. But you find a way to do it that will stay because everything rides on it. You have to have it all in place. You have to have a solid foundation to start making those plans and do the things that you want to do first. What are we going to do first? There is a big vision. I have been working with Sue Lee. We had a great conversation yesterday. I have also been working with Dennis Cole on his foundation. We are looking at some potential sponsors. We have got some things that we are going to be doing really soon that are interesting, but we are ready to break out and go out there and be a service to people by telling them they don't have to succumb to any bad circumstances they have because of an injury or major illness. You can work around that. The whole brand is about living that and walking that walk. These are pretty courageous young men I am proud to be helping. Hugh: Part of that course where you talked about- David, Russell is helping people bring in revenue to their so-called nonprofits/charities. There is a relevance. Russ, I'd like to get David weigh in on the relevance of this branding and attracting revenue, the income that we really need that is the profit that runs our charity. Russell, I'll bring it back to you in a minute, but you had illuminated some things that I wanted to get David to weigh in on. There is a monetary equivalent to the integrity in our brand that you talked about earlier. David: Yeah. Just as in the strategic planning you are asking yourself who are we serving and why are we serving and how are we serving, when you look at the individuals you are appealing to in business development, you say, “Hey, contribute to us. Support us.” When we are looking at that, we then need to reverse-engineer that. That is what I do in my visualization/hallucination. Why are they contributing? What have they contributed to before? What are they contributing to? What is going to make them feel good? How do they know they are contributing to the right organization after they contribute so they might want to contribute again? When you contemplate the psychology of that, much like you look into why people invest into businesses, you think about those donors. Then you know that the emotional connection- You guys have heard me talk about the mojo factor or the God only knows factor. Why are you contributing to them year after year? God only knows. Would you consider not contributing to them or contributing to someone else? Absolutely not. Why? God only knows. They are not sure what that emotional connection is, but you know the emotional connection. In my case, with the anti-bullying, we are looking at the ramifications of some of these young souls who have been bullied and how it impacts their lives. Individuals who are donating to that might have experienced some bullying before and know the pain they went through, as well as the imaginations throughout their life. We know that now, so we know what the mojo factor is to get that individual to know who we are, what we do, and how and why they might want to invest. When that becomes our brand, when they can see it and feel it and taste it and touch it, which it to say there is energy between what we are doing and what we are saying, from the logo and the color and the actions and our behaviors and our sounds, then when we have that going on, we have this awesome connection. Years ago, some of us are old enough to know about Ma Bell. Remember Ma Bell? And then a company came in called Sprint and they wanted to break that God only knows connection, that amazing connection between Ma Bell. Sprint came in and said. It was MCI. They said, “We are going to beat the price,” and Ma Bell came out and said, “Oh yeah? Make them put it in writing.” Ma Bell, you don't talk like that. Ma? They broke that bond, you see. That is just an example of breaking a bond. When it comes to our organizations who are listening today, the bond is that promise. The two great things that my friend Russell just discussed are 1) it's a lot easier to kill a brand than to build a brand. That is so true. And secondly, among other things Russell shared, there are some people out there who are looking for you to mess up. There is an individual looking for the rabbi to have a ham sandwich. There is an individual who is looking for the such-and-such the wrong way. They are looking for that. Why? Because it is easier to find the fault in others than to take the personal responsibility to build themselves. So when you know that, don't be paranoid. But be a little paranoid and know they are watching you. Not only are people scanning you from a neutral point of view, and those scanning you from a positive point of view, but there are also those naysayers who are looking for you to be hypocritical. They are looking for you to mess up. That is when I say have everybody lockstep in knowing what is our promise and behaving that way. You can't go after fund development and not be the brand, or you are wasting your time. Hugh: Whoa. So Russell, I have interrupted you. Were you formulating a question? We are two thirds of the way through our interview, and we are getting into the nitty-gritty. Did you have a really hard question to stump our guest with tonight? Russ: There is no stumping David. It just follows in with what I was saying. The fourth step of building a high-performance nonprofit is to be able to communicate that value that you bring to everybody you come into contact with. You have people that work in the organization. You have donors. You have people who get your services. You need to know how to do it with everyone. With people who are working with you internally, you have to set an expectation so people know exactly what they are signing up for. Understand that you are not everybody's flavor, but you are some people's flavor. When you talk to organizations or donors or people who are going to support you, here is the reality of anything you undertake: There is going to be some risk associated. If you walk in and tell them, “Everything is going to be peachy,” when you are in the service mind-frame or an entrepreneur, we can be hopeless optimists a lot of times. It has been my experience that a lot of things take twice the money, time, and effort they are going to take because we go in with those good intentions. We have to be fully transparent, especially if we discover we have some problems or snags implementing the project. The time to talk about that is as soon as you discover it and look at it and say, “Well, we may not be where we quite want to be.” Up front, transparent. Illuminate as David has talked about. That is a book that is on my shelf. I love that book. I read the thing in one sitting. A lot of people want to cover up. Or human egos want to make us look good. When we are in the business of trying to help people with some serious societal problems, you have to get the ego out of the way. That is hard to do. It makes it difficult to get organizations to collaborate or talk to one another. I have seen a lot of that, too. My philosophy is that you can get a hell of a lot done if you are not hung up on who gets the credit. It is an uphill climb often, but I think the landscape is changing a little bit. People are going into business with a socially benefited mind. They create business structures like the LLC and the B-corp and the benefit corporations. We are seeing a lot of these social enterprises crop up. People can not only make a profit but can also do some good. It's all about doing some good, but there are certain things we have to look at. It has to be run efficiently and effectively, but it doesn't matter what your tax stamp says. Hugh: There is a comment on Twitter: “Doing what you love, loving whom you serve, believing that your nonprofit is vital. I knew too many whose hearts aren't in…” That's interesting. David, do you want to respond to Russ before we go to the final set of questions here? David: Well, a couple things that come to mind. Something that you had said earlier, Hugh, and something that Russell just said. I'll start with Russell. Yes, you need to face the issue. Face a lot of issues. Look at what happened. Happily, there will be lemonade coming out of this lemon on the United Airlines. Not for that doctor, but he will get a huge settlement. That is not what he wanted. I think the industry is shifting now. I read somewhere that Southwest Airlines has changed their model around overselling seats. Sometimes it takes this type of situation for people to learn, and then they shift. A lot of people don't really appreciate their life or family until God forbid maybe a near-death experience, and that is what wakes them up. I say practice safety in driving before then, don't wait for a near-death experience. Start contemplating for the potential issues or challenges that might happen in your organization before it happens. That is the part of roleplaying what could/might happen. What could possibly happen in this situation? Those are the types of things. Don't be a negative nelly. Don't get me wrong. The government has something called Sarbanes-Oxley that says the corporation has the fiduciary responsibility to anticipate, predict, and prepare for a natural disaster. It makes good sense. You don't have to mandate that to me as a business owner. Of course, if I am manufacturing a car, I want to make sure that if the person who creates my rearview mirrors goes down, I am still going to be able to meet the needs of my organization, my shareholders, my staff, my employees. Of course I am going to do that. I don't need regulation. For crying out loud, I don't even need the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is to provide reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities. For crying out loud, that is just good sense. It is just good sense. Plus it is the right thing to do. But be that as it may, we need to face the issue before it happens. Oh by the way, be prepared for facing the issue after it happens. So Mr. President of United Airlines, anticipate if a problem goes down how you are going to handle it. Don't say he was only following procedure. There was a guy in Nazi Germany who used to say that, too. I was just following procedure. I hate to make an extreme example, but I make a point following procedure. Following procedure, pulling a guy off, breaking his teeth. Come on. To say that is just ridiculous. What Pricewaterhouse did after they had a big brouhaha in front of 33 million people, they had 87 years of doing the job really well. What happened after that is they came back and apologized. They said Mea culpa. Just like the Japanese corporate executives did if a plane goes down, they resign. They take personal responsibility. But what Pricewaterhouse did is they said: It was our responsibility, and we apologize. We are looking into it. We want to congratulate those people on camera, including Jimmy Kimmel, for handling it elegantly. Even bringing a little humor into it. We apologize from the bottom of our hearts—I am paraphrasing here—and we will get to the bottom of this. We will let you know what happens so it never happens again. You see, that ding wasn't brand slaughter. It was kind of like getting a ticket for tinted windows or a light being out. I believe we are going to forgive them after a while, but it will be hard to forgive United Airlines after they issued responsibility and took that cheap ticket out. I'm piggybacking off some of the comments you made earlier. I think it's an important point. Anticipate what can go wrong. It doesn't require legislation for that; it requires common sense. Then practice. Practice so it comes out naturally. Sir Lawrence Olivier said the key to acting is spontaneity, which is the result of long, hard, tedious practice. I say practice. Hugh: I could hear you talk all night, David. I think people would be with us this long. There are people listening to you with lots of focus. We could all reframe our own leadership. The question we threw out for people to think about is from the leadership position. My forty years of conducting, I know that what the orchestra and the choir sees is what I get. The culture is a reflection of our leadership. Representing the brand internally helps them represent the brand externally. My question to you is, in this whole spirit of illuminating- I don't know about you, but I find some leaders who have more blind spots than awareness on the impact they are having on the brand externally and internally. You can do your own inventory, but I don't think we can. We need to illuminate with some outside, impartial person asking us the right questions. David, how can a leader, especially one that has been in a position for a while, keep it fresh and illuminate our own representation of our brand internally and externally? David: I think it's about integrity. Integrity is a powerful word. It's thrown around. But integrity, the leader living the values of the business. I can't ask you to do what I'm not willing to do. They say one of the biggest sports in life is soccer, but I don't think that's true. I think the biggest sport in life is boss-watching. Seriously. I really think that. They set the culture. They set the pace. To the extent they are leading with honor and integrity, with the values and behaviors and all. I talk about illuminate, face it, follow, and fix it. One time, instead of getting out of the shower and running past the mirror, I stopped. I didn't quite like what I saw, and I saw a guy who was 40-50 pounds overweight. I thought, My goodness. How dare I talk about illuminate if I don't face it. I faced it. I am asking everyone, every leader, to face: Are you living in integrity? I followed it. I found out why I was gaining weight. I was having a glass of wine or two every night, and it brought my blood sugar down. I would eat anything that was there. There are sardines and chocolate syrup. Looks great! And then I'd go to sleep. I didn't realize I was training to be an athlete. There is an athlete who drinks alcohol and eats a lot of food at night, and that athlete is called a sumo wrestler. I was training to be a sumo wrestler. I couldn't be a leader of Illuminate and be that hypocritical. The fix it was to take small steps and make some transformation. I ask my leaders, my brothers and sisters who are leaders, to get serious. I walked into an association that has to do with diabetes, and I saw a big Coke machine there. I look at some of our organizations who are in the health industry, and they are not healthy. I did a lot of work with a company. I won't tell you the name of it, but it rhymes with Schmaiser Permanente. They are talking about their model called Thrive. And I look at some of their employees, and they are out of integrity. I say, “Don't talk about thrive. You are better off saying nothing. When I see the word ‘thrive' and see people who are grossly unhealthy, I know you are hypocritical. I wonder where else you are cutting corners. I don't like that.” Everything counts. Everything counts. I scan, I think, I feel. Maybe below the line of consciousness. But if it is not in integrity, I am not donating my time and my money to you. I am going to move on to someone who is. Any business, any organization, the leader must lead by example. When she falls down, she says, “Mea culpa. You know what. I fell down. I apologize for that. Here is my plan.” The feminization of business today is so important. Authenticity comes with that, and a lot of drive. When we have the character to say, “Whoops, I messed up, wow, that is a big difference,” that is leadership. Leadership is real. Vulnerability, authenticity, those are just words. They are being overused, but they are real. Get serious about that. Hugh: You are preaching our song. We preach that leadership is influence. We get to choose if we influence positively or negatively. Those are good parting words, but I am going to give you the chance to do a wish or thought or tip for people as we leave. I want to recognize that they can go to davidcorbin.com. David Corbin leaps over tall buildings. Do you really run a 5K every Sunday? David: Every Saturday when I am in town. Hugh: Wow. And you went to Woodstock? You know who else was there? David: My brother David Gruder. Hugh: Yes, he was at Woodstock. You and I are contemporaries. I am a little older than you are. I have never had anybody on this interview series take a sound bite from Rhapsody in Blue. He is a modern-day Renaissance man with many skills. David Corbin, you are indeed a blessing to a lot of people, but tonight, to Russ and me for sharing this great stuff with so many charities. As we are winding up this really powerful interview, David, what is a parting thought or tip you'd like to leave with these amazing leaders that are making such a difference in people's lives? David: I would express my gratitude for their passion, for their hard work. It is difficult today. Service organizations, it seems as though they are being told to jump through hoops and then they make the hoops smaller and then they set the hoops on fire. It's not easy. We need to attract people to volunteer and donate and work for our noble mission. Every morning, I wake up. My hands and knees are on the ground like our Muslim brothers, and I give thanks and gratitude every single morning. I want to give gratitude to those of you who are taking the rein and doing this amazing work, this social work. I thank you for that. I deeply hope that some of these ideas might help you be more effective, more efficient, and more joyous and confident in what you do. Thank you for what you do. Hugh: David Corbin, special words indeed. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with so many people. Your words will live on. Thanks so much for being with us. David: Thanks, brother. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Dr. Gruder’s mission is to make happiness sustainable, collaboration productive, integrity profitable, and society healthy. He is known for his broad talents, integrative mind, unquenchable passion, huge heart, deep integrity, and naked authenticity. Everything he provides is geared to help you make all of this possible so you can succeed in your chosen spheres of influence. Who is Dr. David Gruder? He’s… • The 11-award-winning founder & president of Integrity Culture Systems™ • A Psychologist specializing in Leader Effectiveness, Enterprise Success, and Culture Architecture. • A highly rated international speaker & trainer • A consultant, mentor & trusted advisor who consultants, mentors, & trusted advisors utilize Those Dr. Gruder assists ascribe their success to his uncanny ability to translate intentions and values into step-by-step implementation procedures that enable leaders, enterprises, and causes to walk their talk. Are you an innovative market leaders and thought leaders looking for strategies and skills that enable you to prove to their stakeholders that your business, nonprofit, or governance entity can profitably thrive without sacrificing integrity or social responsibility? Are you looking to up-level your business or organization, provide new value to your event attendees, or serve clients or society more effectively? Then now might well be your time to engage Dr. Gruder. www.drgruder.com The Inventors Launchpad – Roadmap to Success Series is presented by Inventors Launchpad in beautiful Tampa Bay, FL and hosted by Carmine Denisco. Carmine is an accomplished Author, Entrepreneur, Inventor and Co-founder/Managing Partner of Inventors Launchpad. Along with his business partner Rick Valderrama has changed the face of the invention industry and look forward to helping inventors from all over the world move their ideas forward. For more information please visit www.inventorslaunchpad.com
Hugh Ballou Interviews Dave Lucas about his Misfit Entrepreneur concepts and systems. The Interview Transcript Ep 53, Interview with Dave Lukas Hugh Ballou: Dave Lukas has this podcast called the Misfit Entrepreneur. Dave, you and I met virtually, and we are getting acquainted. What I have seen so far is quite impressive. Say a little bit about your background and your business, and then about this podcast, this Misfit Entrepreneur. Talk about yourself and your background and what the inspiration was for launching this great podcast you have. Dave Lukas: Thanks, all good stuff. Thanks for having me, and thanks everyone for tuning in. A little bit about my background just so you guys know. I have always ben an entrepreneur, ever since I was a kid. Like most people, I did the lawn thing, but I did a direct sales business at my college and took it to another business after college that I brought to Columbus, Ohio, where I live now. I split time between Columbus and San Diego. I am in the health and wellness arena. I did that for a year. Then I had this crazy idea. I either wanted to run or own a Fortune 500 someday. So early 20s, right? Everything you can accomplish. I got to get up from the ground floor with one of these and really understand it. One of the best places to do that is on the sales side of things. If you look at a lot of CEOs, a lot of them are salespeople. Sales is a skill that no matter who you are in life and no matter what you do, you really need to understand and utilize. One of the things I talk about when I do speeches is that sales is one of the most innate, natural abilities we all have. If you have a spouse or a significant other, you sold yourself to them, and they sold themselves to you. It’s something that we do naturally. We don’t think of it to be more deliberate at it. I went to school essentially. I worked for a top 50 training program, Fortune 500. Spent a number of years there. Had a lot of success. I was Rep of the Year and all that in my early days. Then I became a turnaround manager and a trainer nationally for all of their rookies. During that time, I continued my entrepreneurial efforts. I continued to invest. I continued to build up other businesses. When you are successful in sales, that gives you autonomy, which allowed me to do that. One of those companies I invested in and helped to guide and mentor in my free time was a company called Grass Technologies. It was a very unique company in the data intelligence space in the travel industry. Anything can be learned. That is one thing I learned. Going from where I was and going to the travel sector is a completely different world. We grew that business from basically nothing to- Nowadays I spend a lot of time there, and it is my largest business. Inc 5000 multi-year winner. We do business in over 100 countries. It’s been a lot of fun. We have that. I do some other things, where I teach and speak and train. I work in the investment side of things, and I am part of a small hedge fund. Then I started this podcast. It’s called the Misfit Entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur, that makes sense. People are like, “Oh yeah, you’re an entrepreneur. You started a podcast to learn the unique traits of entrepreneurs.” The reason I did it is not what most people think. The reason I did it came about three years ago when my wife and I went to China to adopt our daughter. We adopted our daughter, and we get home, and she is 18 months old at that time. In my youth, I spent a lot of my extra time, weekends and evenings, learning. I trained with Zig Ziglar, God rest his soul; Brian Tracy, who wrote the cover quote for my bestselling book; and Tony Robbins, all of these guys, billionaires and millionaires. I spent about five years spending every waking moment that I had learning from these people. That is how that book came about. Fast forward multiple years later, and I have this 18-month-old. I am a dad now. As we are starting to become a family, all of these things are bubbling up that I forgot that I had learned throughout time. I learned from this person or that person. I’m going, Oh my gosh. How much of this stuff have I forgotten over the years? The idea for the Misfit Entrepreneur came about because at that point I said, “I have to have a way where I can immortalize these lessons and this amazing advice from people like you and others throughout the world for her to have even after I am dead and gone.” That is how it started. Do I do a blog? Do I do a video blog? Do I do an email address that she get when she’s older that there is all this stuff in there for her? I am a big listener of podcasts; I know a lot of people are. They are pretty mainstream nowadays. I love the medium because you can take it anywhere. You can take it to the car, to the gym, while you work. You can have it anywhere, which is different than a video or a blog where you have to be present in viewing and reading. You can’t take it to all these places. So that is why we settled on a podcast. We launched in September of last year. It’s been a blessing. Now we are in over 50 countries, and we have had amazing guests. It’s been a lot of fun, and it’s helped to bring this amazing information that these people have, these secrets, their misfit trades that set them apart and helped other people learn and put to use in their lives. That is a brief background on all that fun stuff. Hugh: That’s a very different paradigm than a lot of people I talk to, as you might imagine. I love that. We had a conversation before we went live today and discovered that we have a lot more synergies. I am glad to have you today as a guest. My audience I would classify as social entrepreneurs. They are running a business, or they are running a church, synagogue, or local community foundation. The commonality is that we all are establishing good, sound business principles in the organizations that we run. I want to probe some of that with you because the things that make us independent as entrepreneurs also cripple us so we don’t fit. Some of the things we need to learn are things we don’t yet know we need to learn. I love what you talked about in keeping track of all the things we have been exposed to. We have learned so many things we have forgotten a lot of them. I love the podcast. Like you mentioned, I love keeping current on my skills. You may know that I spent 40 years as a musical conductor. The composer/conductor Ralph Vaughan Williams said that music did not reveal all of its secrets to just one person. I get tidbits from a lot of other people, which is great. As entrepreneurs, we tend to go to the shiny object when we need to stay focused. I think podcasts are a focus for me. I am an entrepreneur. I am guilty. Seems like you have this bestselling book. What is the book about? What’s the title of it? Dave: The book is called The Ten-Year Career. It came out in 2012/2013. The idea behind that book was, Okay, I spent all this time learning all this stuff. How do I condense it down so it’s useful? It came about because I had this giant binder of all these lessons, notes that I have learned along the way. When I was working on one of my businesses or with someone else or just in general, I would pull this thing out and go, “Hey, I learned that from Tony. Check this out. Here is what we can do here with this.” Eventually, enough people said that I should distill it down and put it in a book. The biggest challenge for a lot of people is where to start. Where do I start, and how do I get that momentum? The book was written as a way to help people, whether you are just starting out, or maybe you have lost your way and are looking for that road map or path to help guide you to get yourself to higher levels of achievement. The book title, The Ten-Year Career, is based upon the fact that my goal was always to be at a position to where if I wanted to, I didn’t have to work within ten years. I am happy to say that I achieved that two years ago. To me, that was my goal. But it was the principles that had to be put into place consistently done over time to do that. One thing I found about success in very high achieving and high-performing people that consistently win, it’s not that they do one thing extremely better than anyone else—sometimes you have those cases—but really it’s they do a lot of things just incrementally better than the others. And they do that consistently. That is what’s in here. It starts off with: Who are you? How can you find clarity and purpose in who you are? Then it goes to helping you set goals for yourself so that you have something to go after and achieve. A lot of people don’t write down what they want. They don’t know what they want. You have to have that clarity to find it. Then we go into helping you get the skills you need along the journey. I talk about sales earlier. There is a chapter on that in there. There is a chapter on managing your finances. Productivity and time. Structure = freedom. I know that sounds weird, but the more structure you put into your life, the more freedom you will gain by it. That is something that is important. A lot of people don’t plan anything. They don’t plan their days or weeks, and they don’t plan for their success. We have all heard that cliché that if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. That is really true because being structured, understanding where you are going and how you are going to get there, makes it so much easier. That’s all in there. Then we have traits of highly sucessful people I have met along the way that are really stand-out things like what it means to be tenacious and what that looks like and examples of that, what it means to be committed. We go through all that. At the end, we share some unique ways—even from 2012 or 2013, they are still relevant today–that you can start a business before, if you have never started or created a business before, here are some unique things you can be doing. Ways of looking at things that are different to help you get ahead. Hugh: I am laughing because you were so in sync with these messages. We have talked very little. It’s like in James Allen’s book A Man Thinketh, he says, “We don’t attract what we need. We attract what we are.” The reason failing to plan is a cliché is because it’s true. I want to make sure people know. Is it ten number or ten word? Dave: Word. Hugh: The Ten-Year Career. Is it Dave Lukas? Dave: It’s D. M. Lukas. Hugh: D. M. Lukas. Dave: I am the weird guy that spells it with a K. I am the one guy out there still, I think. Hugh: I misspelled you. How did I do that? Dave: No worries. It’s very common. Hugh: I’m sure they can find it on Amazon. It’s been a bestseller. What is a link to find you online? Dave: You can type in Dave Lukas in Google and find a lot of things. I am on all the social media as themisfitentrepreneur. Misfitentrepreneur.com. You will find everything if you go there. Hugh: People ask me how to find you. Did you try to Google me? I’m all over, as are you. A couple of interesting things. Thank you for explaining about the book. I got to get me one. There is a journey in writing a book of self-discovery. It’s self-empowering when you are trying to share with other people. Did you find that true? Dave: It’s my first book. It took me two years. Advice for writing a book if you are going to write a book: Ready, fire, aim is okay. You can always revise it. I really wanted it to be perfect in every way, so I went around and around and around. My wife knew me pretty well. In the beginning, I would dabble in it a little bit and go away from it. She knew me pretty well and said, “When you are truly committed to it, you’ll do it.” On those words, that was literally about a year. A little less than a year later, it was done, published, out. It is a journey. You discover things about yourself and who you are. You learn about things that you didn’t even think about. Especially when you are learning to write, most people aren’t professional authors. I’m not either. But you start to study how to get a message across succinctly. That transfers into other areas of your life. When you are on a meeting like this, don’t say too many words; only a few will do to get a message across. It’s interesting going through that process. You learn a lot, you grow a lot, and you discover some things in yourself you never knew you had. Hugh: Those are good words. That book seems like it would be valuable. As soon as I hang up, I’m getting it. In that explanation, there is something that came to my mind. A month ago, I had on a colleague of mine, Dr. David Gruder, organizational and developmental psychologist. We were talking about the shadow, that part of us that holds us back. You and I talked a little bit about mindset. This whole thing about sales, it requires a different mindset because we have the wrong idea about sales. I do work with lots of different kinds of entrepreneurs, including those who are clergy. They don’t believe in sales. What is evangelism if it’s not selling something you believe in? You have a need, you find value, and you connect people with that value. One of the people I want to have on here who is a friend of mine is Bob Circosta, who sold over $11 billion worth of stuff on the home shopping channels. He hates to sell, but he teaches people how to sell, and he is brilliant at it. It’s about the transfer of feelings, but it’s also offering people value. Would you speak to this? How do we reframe our thinking? The book that I referred to As a Man Thinketh has a lot of really meaty stuff. What does Dave Lukas have to say on how we need to reposition our thinking no matter what kind of entrepreneur we are and what kind of organization? I think it starts with us reframing our thinking. Would you agree? Dave: It is. This is one of my favorite topics to talk about because it’s where most people struggle the most. They actually don’t realize a lot of things about the way that they think. It’s funny you just mentioned a pastor or priest having trouble selling. What are you doing giving a sermon? When you are giving a sermon and doing the verse of the day and explaining that and trying to connect that with people’s lives so they take it and make a difference with it, that’s what you’re doing. You’re selling them on understanding that sermon. You don’t look at it that way, but that’s what you’re doing. We’ll take a step back from that and a step back even from sales. Here is the thing that a lot of people don’t realize about the way that they think. I’ll ask you: When the baby comes out of the womb, is their success and path in life already predetermined? When they get out of the womb, do they say, “Beautiful baby. Too bad they will never make more than $35,000.” Hugh: We tend to do that as irresponsible adults. We put limits on others, which sometimes they accept and sometimes they don’t. Dave: What you just said makes a lot of sense. If you guys think about that, you really come out with a clean slate, but we actually are conditioned to be who we are in life. A lot of that conditioning is great. Sources: parents, friends, media, culture, school, religion, everything has an impact on who we are. The thing that people don’t realize is that we have two minds. We have our subconscious mind and our conscious mind. Our conscious mind is what you use when you think to give an answer, like I am thinking it through now. That is your conscious mind. But your subconscious mind is actually the most powerful part of the brain. It is the animal part of the brain. It is the part that runs you without you even knowing it. How else do you think to drive a car or throw a ball? In a lot of situations, you just react. What you say is a reaction. You don’t really think. You say it, you do it. That is your subconscious. What the subconscious gets its information from is all that conditioning over the years. Basically it files that away in your brain, and when scenarios or instances come up, it takes that reaction or that way of thinking and applies it. You at home, how many things do you say because that is what you learned from your parents, or maybe things you do because that is what my parents did. That is all conditioning. The cool thing is there are a lot of cool things that come from that, cultural things, traditions, etc. But there are things that come into our lives that if you stopped and thought about it, you may not actually accept about yourself. You may think that $50,000 is a lot of money, or you say that, but when you step back and think about it, you say, “That is actually not a lot of money. I think $500,000 is a lot of money.” Or so on. The trick that people have to learn is what I call really the awareness factor. Awareness is the catalyst to change. Once you understand that you have been conditioned to be certain ways, then you have the choice to keep them and keep using them in your life or recondition yourself for what you want. I’ll give you a great example as to how the mind can quickly be reconditioned. Have you ever wanted or saw a car that you really like? Maybe a cherry red whatever. It’s amazing how after you put that to memory and say, “I really like that car. I want that car in that color,” how much you see them on the roads. I don’t know if you’ve ever had that experience before or seen that, but it happens. I remember when I first saw an Aston Martin on the roads here, I said, “That’s the car.” It’s the Vanquish. I went home and looked it up. That is on the goal board. That is the car. I had never seen an Aston Martin before that. But the next week, I saw four of them on the roads. That is your subconscious. Once you give it something, for all the credit we give it, it’s actually pretty dumb. It’s the animal part of the brain. It filed it away and started looking for it and pointing it out to me. It’s the same in all aspects of your life, from your financials to your relationships to everything. This is where once you are aware of this, you can start to do a few things. The first thing that I talk about with people is you have to develop what I call your inner coach. This is that little voice inside of your head that catches you when you go to start saying something or you go to start doing something that you don’t agree with in your life. It could be something that you learned from somewhere else or you have done over and over again but you realize that it’s not you. That’s not who I want to be. And you start to realize it. It doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a lifelong skillset that you have to do with this to start to change the way you think. What you do is you do what I call stop, ask, and choose. You stop yourself in the moment, ask yourself, “Is this the thought or reaction I want to have?” and choose the path forward that you feel is best for you. When you start to do that, you recondition that brain. When it comes to finances, if your success and wealth path is set to a certain number, you can start to retrain your brain to set it to a higher number. Ask yourself how you will get there. That activates the side of the creative brain and allows you to start growing and learning and taking the steps you need to go to those higher levels. It’s not easy for anybody. But you look at a lot of the most successful people in the history of the world. You will see that this trait runs common with them. Whether they figured it out or were just naturally gifted at it, this is something that they truly understand. They truly understand how to have true choice and gain control over their thoughts and the way they do things. I have a couple more points to that, but I will stop there if you have any questions. Hugh: Well, I do. I do. Or some observations. I am still in sync with all of that. Three weeks ago, on an interview like this, I was at the Napoleon Hill Foundation, which is a two-hour drive from me, speaking to the executive director, who used all of Napoleon Hill’s philosophies, running a bank or other businesses. He is now the executive director for the legacy of Napoleon Hill with his foundation. What you are talking about, the things that Napoleon Hill discovered when he interviewed all of these famous people, I never thought about whether they were aware of it or not, but they all had this trait as positive image failure was not an option. It was the subconscious that you program with your conscious. Bob Proctor speaks about that a lot. You are sort of springboarding on Napoleon Hill’s writings and philosophies, aren’t you? Dave: None of this stuff is new. In fact, it was around way before Napoleon Hill. Aristotle was talking about this stuff. Hugh: Amen. Dave: It’s been packaged in different ways over the years that at the time made the most sense for people to understand it based on where they were in life. Napoleon Hill was a wake-up call to a generation essentially. When he wrote that, he packaged it in a way that really helped people to grasp it and be in sync with it and become aware so they really could put it into effect in their lives. We have seen it in other ways. We have seen The Secret and other things that have been packaged around this concept. But at the very root core of it, it comes down to a very simple process: your beliefs lead to the way you think. The way you think leads to the way you feel, the way you feel leads to your actions, and ultimately your actions lead to your results. Now if you take out the middle of that, you get beliefs lead to your results. What you truly believe ultimately becomes your results. What you focus on in life becomes your life. This is where the clarity is so important to understand what you truly believe. How many people take the time to stop and ask themselves what they truly believe? What do I truly believe about my life? What do I truly believe about my finances, my relationships, my family, my spirituality? What do I truly believe? We live in such a fast-paced society nowadays. We stop the microwave with three seconds left, I often joke. We can’t wait those three seconds anymore. Ding on the phone and we are automatically trained. Talk about subconscious conditioning. The phone dings and we are automatically on it. When do we have time? Or does it not feel like we don’t have time to stop and ask ourselves what we truly believe in life? Take two hours and put pen to paper on what you truly believe. It will change your life. What you truly believe will turn to actions in your life. You have to constantly remind yourself of this stuff. You can’t just do it once and be done with it. Again, what happened in the news yesterday? Anybody remember? It moves that fast. A great thing for you to do is remind yourself of these things. I will give you a simple one. I know it sounds goofy, but I have been doing it almost every day for a decade now. I have a white board in my office. When I walk in every single day, it says, “What type of attitude will I choose to have today? Great, fair, or poor.” Every morning, I have to come in and take a marker and circle which one of those I am going to have. I know it sounds rudimentary, but remember the subconscious is the animal, rudimentary part of our brain. Every day, I come in and not once in ten years have I circled fair or poor. It’s always great. When something doesn’t go right or I feel myself starting to react, that bubbling up inside you that we have, I look up there and saw that I circled I am going to have a great attitude today. I stop myself, ask myself how I want to go forward, and then choose the way that I want to do it. I can’t count how many times how having a simple board in front of me has made a difference and saved a deal or relationship or allowed me to better coach someone or make the right decision at the right times because just like everybody else, it’s a work in progress in life. I still react to things. I am not perfect; ask my wife. Little things like that make such a huge difference. Remember we started this by talking about the high-performing and successful people, they do little things incrementally better consistently. That is an example of one little one that works really well for me. Hugh: Consistently. I love that word you just slid in there. You’re talking about the structure. I laughed when you were talking early on in the conversation about having a structure in place. I am a musician. It’s a very ridged discipline. It’s mathematical and exacting. We have a structure. But because we have the structure, now we can be creative within that structure. Now we can spend our energy letting it happen. We are not spending energy trying to figure out what happens next. You’re hitting a lot of universal truths. What Napoleon Hill did was understand the laws of nature that have always existed, but he did what I would call original research by interviewing people who actually employed it. Like you said, he put it into a system that people could replicate that goes back to Aristotle and Biblical writers and other points in history. It is very consistent with all of that. He lists the attributes of true wealth. Money is the last one because it is the least important, but it is the result of all the value. The law of attraction came out of that. We are talking about that. We are also talking about programming your subconscious. That was a big part of that. Bob Proctor speaks about a lot. I don’t know if you understand or know the work of Murray Bowen. It is leadership methodology, understanding ourselves from our family of origins. We have this DNA that is imprinted into us, like software that is loaded into our computer. Unfortunately, a lot of people just use the defaults with the software and haven’t learned to program it appropriately. A whole lot of the things you are saying really ring true, no matter where we are working. I call my audience social entrepreneurs because we are not doing the corporate things. We are doing something independent. However, we have lots of liabilities. Our assets are our liabilities. The things that make us independent also penalize us. The mindset difference. You also talk about consistency. That is a huge one in my book. You also talked about having a structure in place so you know what you’re supposed to do. Your white board thing is brilliant. Napoleon Hill talks about that. Read your goal and set your attitude. He found that all these people could not hold a positive and negative idea simultaneously. You’re hitting a lot of the strong points. These are all in your book, are they? Dave: Yeah, a lot of this is discussed. I have expanded upon it since then, but much of what I just said is in there. Even the structures side of it, you mention the structure. Once you understand this stuff, you have to have a way to systematically input it in your life. That is how you plan things and how you do little things. Every morning, Tony Robbins does something similar like this. I have my own spin on this. I do what I call my 10-minute prime. It’s ten minutes to center yourself before the day starts, especially in today’s age. We are getting hit from all sides of all kinds of things throughout the day. It moves so much faster than it did in Napoleon Hill’s time or even ten years ago. It’s funny. A lot of people don’t even think about this, but the iPhone is 10 years old just this year. Doesn’t it seem like it’s been a lot longer than that? It’s amazing where we have come and even more amazing where we are going to be a few years from now, let alone ten years from now. Having the ability to put that consistent structure in your life, that is what I do with my ten-minute prime. I do three things I’m grateful for for the day. I center myself around gratitude and start my day with gratitude. That makes such a huge difference. If you have ever had a day where you start off late and it snowballs from there, and everything seems like nothing goes right throughout the day, it’s because that negative start has compounded in your subconscious and continues into everything else throughout the day. Having a process like a ten-minute prime where you stop and say I’m thankful for this or that, I believe in this, and this is a great thing for those in the world today, that gets your mind in a whole different way. It stops that negative thinking and stops things from happening like that. Hugh: That’s huge. You are slipping in some gems. I want to highlight that. You begin with a position of gratitude. There is abundance we are not grateful for, and it’s there for us to claim. I want to highlight that. Sorry to interrupt you. But that is so key. Dave: No, not a problem. I fly a lot. I am in the travel industry. I do everything from speaking. I split time between here and San Diego or my biggest office is for Grass. I am back and forth. I do a lot of flying. I am still amazed at how annoyed people get flying. You are in a seat going 550 miles an hour through the air on your laptop working or watching a movie or whatever. Come on! 100 years ago, you were on horseback trying to cross the Rocky Mountains. Come on! It’s just amazing what we have at our disposal that we take for granted. Hugh: It’s amazing. You have a lot of nuggets in this. We will transcribe this so there will be places for us to underline all of this great stuff. Dave, I knew you were great. I didn’t know you were this great. This is awesome. I could talk to you all day, but I don’t think people are going to listen to us all day. So I try to keep these interviews to a manageable length. We are on the downside of an hour here. As we wrap this up, think about what are some of the key points you want to leave people with? We are serious about changing the world. We got great stuff. We are entrepreneurs, but we are compromised by all of these things you have highlighted. What are some thoughts you’d like to leave people with so they can continue thinking? What are some things you’d like to leave people with as final thoughts? Dave: The first thing is be deliberate about your success. Take some time to plan and write down what you want. Get clear on what you want. Be deliberate about it. If you have ever had a day where you feel you have worked really hard and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it, that is pretty common. That happens because we don’t plan for it. We don’t sit there and say, “What do we need to accomplish today?” The other half of my ten-minute prime is I do the three things I need to thrive for the day. These are the three things that are going to make the biggest impacts on my world, my businesses, family, relationships, whatever it may be for that day. I take the time to think through the three most important things I can do today to further our mission and what we are doing. If you do nothing else but that, it will make such a huge difference. Be deliberate about your success. The second thing is you can never stop learning. I always say your education begins after school, whether that’s high school or college. Whatever it is, your education begins when you decide that it really begins. Take that time. I knew in today’s fast-paced world, get on a regular regiment. Read, listen to podcasts, seek out things. Anything can be learned. Whatever you don’t know, you can learn. Seek out those that have done it. The beautiful thing about today’s world is you can access all of it. Whatever you want to learn is at your fingertips, and it’s probably free. Get yourself into a mode where you are consistently learning and growing. If you are not growing, you are dying. If you are not growing yourself and your knowledge and your capabilities, then you are kind of dying. You are not reaching your true potential. Those are two things that I think are really important to anybody in success, no matter what you do, whether you are a nonprofit or in business, whether you are an athlete or in school, whatever it is. The last thing is look for those little things. Look for those little things that you can do just a little bit better than anybody else. Think about it. The 100-meter dash in the Olympics is won by 1/100/100 of a second. That makes the difference. You take inventory of your strengths, understand what you are really good at, and be deliberate there. Look for those ways to get incrementally better so it translates to a big difference for you. You will be amazed at how fast you can grow if you do that. Hugh: Wow. I loved everything that you have said in this interview, Dave. Dave Lukas, D. M. Lukas, author of The Ten-Year Career, thank you for sharing your brilliance with my audience today. Dave: Thanks for having me on. It’s been a pleasure to be with you. Any questions anybody has, I am always open. I respond to all emails that are sent to me. www.misfitentrepreneur.com. Any way that we can help, let us know. Hugh: Here we are. I sent an inquiry. Thank you so much, Dave.
How can you use integrity and accountability to create positive disruption in your market and in your business? You'll learn from Dr. David Gruder the four critical elements that foster an environment where your customers trust you to deliver, creating a compelling competitive advantage, especially with executives. Dr David is widely recognized as a highly regarded […]
How can you use integrity and accountability to create positive disruption in your market and in your business? You’ll learn from Dr. David Gruder the four critical elements that foster an environment where your customers trust you to deliver, creating a compelling competitive advantage, especially with executives. Dr David is widely recognized as a highly regarded speaker, trainer & executive coach in the areas of leadership, entrepreneurship, organizational development, and personal development. He has authored The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships, and Our World, and Transcendent Thought and Market Leadership 1.0 with Bruce Wright, along with other books and publications. Get more information at: www.DrGruder.com www.HijackingofHappiness.com www.TheNewIQ.com Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Selling Disruption Show Community today: sellingdisruptionshow.com Selling Disruption Show Facebook Selling Disruption Show LinkedIn
Dr. David Gruder, Ph. D. is an organizational and developmental psychologist. Hugh and David discuss how the Jung definition of shadow limits our effectiveness as nonprofit leaders. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
OS 042: The "Shadow" that Limits Our Effectiveness with Dr David Gruder
Regarding emotional & intelligence IQ, studies reflect that the higher the rankings the higher the success and profitability. However, Dr. David Gruder's a New IQ philosophy revolves around high Integrity. His studies reflect that the higher our integrity in our personal and professional lives the higher our happiness, satisfaction, success, health, & wealth. Considering that Amplified with Ken Rochon, Host & CoFounder of The Umbrella Syndicate (TUS) dedicates time to honor individuals that amplify extraordinary efforts, such as Dr. Gruder, this dedication to high integrity stands firm with Ken's personal philosophies. Supporting this belief, mindset, & mission is Andrea Adams-Miller, CEO The RED Carpet Connection PR Agency, co-host. Our other guest, Heshie Segal, child advocate, Kids Better World, also recognizes that leadership & partnerships only are as effective as the integrity shown between parties recaps The Essence of Being Event led by Burge Smith-Lyons this past weekend.
Regarding emotional & intelligence IQ, studies reflect that the higher the rankings the higher the success and profitability. However, Dr. David Gruder's a New IQ philosophy revolves around high Integrity. His studies reflect that the higher our integrity in our personal and professional lives the higher our happiness, satisfaction, success, health, & wealth. Considering that Amplified with Ken Rochon, Host & CoFounder of The Umbrella Syndicate (TUS) dedicates time to honor individuals that amplify extraordinary efforts, such as Dr. Gruder, this dedication to high integrity stands firm with Ken's personal philosophies. Supporting this belief, mindset, & mission is Andrea Adams-Miller, CEO The RED Carpet Connection PR Agency, co-host. Our other guest, Heshie Segal, child advocate, Kids Better World, also recognizes that leadership & partnerships only are as effective as the integrity shown between parties recaps The Essence of Being Event led by Burge Smith-Lyons this past weekend.
www.alexandraharbushka.com Leave a review: http://bit.ly/ReviewSexMoneyandFood PSST. I will be reading your reviews in an upcoming episode so if you have any questions ask away :-) Do you ever feel like money owns you, rather than you owning it? Or maybe you’re just overwhelmed by the thought of saving and haven’t a clue where to get started. If that’s the case you’ll love today’s guest and our conversation! On this edition of The Sex, Money and Food podcast, I’m joined by Chella Diaz. Chella is a money management guru with a practical approach you’ll love and embrace. She’s on a mission to empower others and their relationship with money. She wants you to be the boss of your money - tune in today to find out how! More About This Show From an early age Chella Diaz has been fascinated by money, and spent over 20 years in the banking and financial industries. She saw firsthand how little information most people have around money management, and she also saw the different habits the wealthy have from those who live paycheck to paycheck. Today we dive into all of those areas, and more! Because her mission is to empower others, she always meets her clients wherever they are in their financial journey. Unlike many financial experts, she doesn’t have a cookie cutter approach that she applies to everyone. When I asked her what differences she sees in the habits of the rich versus the poor, she said the wealthy pay themselves first. They take that money and put it into an account that serves a purpose like investing in retirement, real estate, etc. They create a wealthy account and set that money aside for long-term gains, it is not to be used for anything but long-term investments. She also recommends credit unions over banks, for good reason. Credit unions are typically non-profits and you as an account holder actually own a percentage of it. They also have lower interest rates, and lower fees than big banks so you can keep more of your own money! And speaking of keeping more of your money, she has a very simple strategy to develop the wealthy habit of paying yourself first: take $5 from every paycheck and set it aside in your long-term investment account. Then after that, pay your bills. Once your bills are paid, whatever is leftover is for going out, movies, new clothes, etc. Once you’ve gotten into the habit of doing this for a few months, start putting away $10 from every pay period. And if you get a raise or a bonus, put half of that away too. Do both of these things regularly and consistently: keep increasing the amount you save, but don't make it painful! Small amounts are easy to get used to, which is why she suggest starting with those and incrementally getting yourself to 5% of your paycheck. Also on today’s episode, Chella shares a simple 3 bucket system you can use to teach your kids about money (it’s a system you can use too!), the books she recommends for truly understanding what it means to be a millionaire, as well as why you should never pay ATM fees again. Chella has all of those tips and more to help you become the boss of your money, tune in to hear them all! Tweetable: “The wealthy pay themselves first.” ~Chella Diaz Chella Answers the Questions Q: Rank the following in order: sex, money, food. A: Food, sex then money. Money is last because I’ve got that under control! Q: There is nothing better in life than…A: having people around you that appreciate you and see you for who you are. Q: Your ultimate pleasure in life is?A: Actually that’s so much! I enjoy cooking and baking, I enjoy it when people enjoy meals. There’s a bonding that happens, we go back to old-fashioned breaking bread together. I enjoy it when friends and family come together to enjoy a meal. Q: What does being a boss of your own money smell like to you? A: It’s refreshing! It’s that smell you get after a rain, the light rain that washes away the dirt from the streets. It’s that rain - it’s light, crisp and refreshing. It allows you to take a moment and pause and appreciate the fact that you are there. Q: What is a mistake or a circumstance you went through in your 20’s regarding sex, money and food that is has allowed you grow and learn from. Or is there something that you would say...I will never do that again! A: As you asked a few things popped up but the one that came to the surface is going through my divorce. I lost part of my identity, I was no longer the wife and I became a single parent. That was the toughest thing. But the growth that I have done since then - it didn’t happen overnight but it did happen! Q: What book are you reading? A: What Is Your EQ? by David Gruder. I always have Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill by my bed and I read it a couple of times a year. And As A Man Thinketh, by James Allen is also by my bedside. These I have so I read them over and over again. Resources From This Episode Chella Diaz’s web site Chella Diaz on Twitter Chella Diaz on Facebook Fall In Love With Food, Sex and Money Summit Think and Grow Rich, by Napoleon Hill As A Man Thinketh, by James Allen Money: Master the Game, by Tony Robbins The Millionaire Next Door, by Thomas J. Stanley Millionaire Women Next Door, by Thomas J. Stanley Subscribe to the Sex, Money and Food Podcast on iTunes Get your free audiobook at Audible
2 pm Central, 3 pm Eastern: "Positive Impact Radio," host Carol Wachniak Join Carol every week, to talk to people who are making a Positive Impact in the world! Dr. David Gruder America's Integrity Expert & Culture Architect Glenn Barker Director ManKind Project Chicago Dr. David Gruder is a Business Peak Performance Psychologist who didn’t just win a leadership award: one was named after him. Also named America’s Integrity Expert by Radio & TV Reports and featured in Forbes 15 times & counting, he has received 8 book awards, has provided keynotes, training programs and consulting in eight countries on three continents, and is co-head of faculty and a Board member for CEO Space International, a 25+ year-old entrepreneur development organization. As a Culture Architect, Dr. Gruder equips leaders, managers & work teams with skills & procedures to get things done quickly, collaboratively, successfully & enjoyably.
Integrity is not just about keeping your word. There is integrity within yourself, as well as within your relationships, both personal and community-wide. Dr. David Gruder is "America's Integrity Expert." He is a clinical & organizational psychologist who brings the best of psychology to business, the best of entrepreneurship to professionals, and the best of both to social change & governance. An award-winning author and highly sought-after speaker, David coaches corporations and individuals the collaborations skills required to create sustainable productivity, profitability & job satisfaction. Simply put, if you want a work environment where everyone - top to bottom - enjoys their work and feels fulfilled personally and professionally, talk to David. Happy employees ultimately leads to growth.
Do you push down your anger or blow up? Do you direct it toward yourself or toward others? There are 4 shades of anger. Three aren’t merely ineffective: they’re harmful. One is very helpful. Each needs to be dealt with differently. Now YOU can learn how, during a FREE webinar David Gruder is giving this coming Thursday, June 18, 2015 (or watch via the recording!). David Gruder is a 9-award-winning psychologist who developed the world's first & only Full Spectrum Anger Effectiveness Secrets™ system. You probably didn't know that did you? This webinar is for you if you want to get the upper hand on your own anger with other people's anger. It's for you whether the anger you're dealing with anger is in your personal life, your work life, or your community. The Full Spectrum Anger Effectiveness Secrets™ system is acclaimed across cultures around the world because of its universal usefulness: ** “One of the best theories of anger (and how to use it wisely) I've read.” ~ Beth Spencer, Australia. ** "Terrific. Original. Very well articulated. Even helps people answer their own questions.” ~ Iwowarri Berian James, Nigeria. ** “Without this system, it would have taken me a lifetime to develop my ability to resolve conflict without anger or force.” ~ Craig Collins, USA. Don't be left out. Register now: www.DrGruder.com/angerwebinar! And remember to spread the word by forwarding this email to your colleagues and friends, and posting the link on Facebook, LinkedIn, Google+, Twitter, and so forth.
An interview with Dr. David Gruder, author of "The New IQ: How Integrity Intelligence Serves You, Your Relationships and Our World" and a Business Development Psychologist & Culture Architect. We discuss the challenges that dentists experience in their offices in creating a proactive, friendly and enjoyable culture that will allow them to have better treatment plan acceptance, as well as discussing ways in which they can move to an all-cash practice.This show is broadcast live on W4CY Radio – (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (http://www.talk4radio.com/) on the Talk 4 Media Network (http://www.talk4media.com/).
Join host Dr. Ulwyn and her guest Dr. David Gruder, one of the world’s leading clinical-organizational psychologists, specializing in integrity development, enhancement and education. Dr. Gruder speaks, trains, and consults worldwide with leaders, businesses, and professionals, in the areas of integrity and accountability, personal power and collaboration, leadership development, and work-life balance. His latest book “The New IQ: How … Read more about this episode...
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