Podcasts about Linwood

"Hip hop wasn't just music—it was a mirror, a movement, and a megaphone for the unheard. We weren't just playing records; we were broadcasting revolution."Detroit is Different episode featuring Brother Sayeed Sanders, executive producer of the legendary 1990s Detroit/Windsor-based hip-hop TV show Kicking Knowledge. From Mississippi roots and snowy first days on Linwood to being recruited into engineering at MSU with Black Power speeches featuring Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad, Sayeed breaks down a layered life of Black resilience, radical education, and revolutionary media-making. "People thought rap was noise, but I saw poetry and power." Sayeed shares behind-the-scenes stories from his time interviewing Public Enemy, Outkast, LL Cool J, and launching Flavor TV across the border. "We didn't just shoot shows—we preserved culture." He also speaks on Detroit's failing sewer infrastructure, cultural censorship, and the politics of Black image in media. A blend of engineering mind, cultural vision, and community-centered storytelling—this episode is for every Detroiter who remembers what came before YouTube, and why it still matters. Detroit is Different is a podcast hosted by Khary Frazier covering people adding to the culture of an American Classic city. Visit www.detroitisdifferent.com to hear, see and experience more of what makes Detroit different. Follow, like, share, and subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes, Google Play, and Sticher. Comment, suggest and connect with the podcast by emailing info@detroitisdifferent.com

To escape her haunting past and start anew, a children's author moves to a small town with her son. But when a seemingly innocent toy train and the recent loss of her husband begin to blur the lines between reality and illusion, her mind starts to unravel, leading her on a journey where memory, grief, and the supernatural collide New York Times bestselling author Linwood Barkley joined Pat on the show to chat about his new book,' Whistle'.

“A complete balls up”. How about that for what might be quote of the day? That's how Christchurch city councillor Andrei Moore is describing the council's handling of the housing intensification row. It's a row that has been shut down for good by Housing and Resource Management Minister Chris Bishop, who has rejected Christchurch's bid to have its own, separate housing intensification rules. Which I have no problem with. If he had given-in to Christchurch, it would've opened the floodgates right around the country. So good on Chris Bishop. It's a final decision too, by the way. No correspondence will be entered into. The council can't blow any more money running off to the environment court. So Christchurch has to like it or lump it. What it's going to mean is high density, multi-level residential housing in the CBD (good), Riccarton (good), Hornby (good) and Linwood (good). Even if it means neighbouring properties losing sunlight. Which is not necessarily good - but that's just reality. We need to get over that. Not that I've felt that way from the outset. When these new rules were first proposed three years ago, I didn't like the sound of them. And there was no shortage of people saying they felt the same way. And I suspect that a lot of people will still be very unhappy about the prospect of a new place going up next to them and losing their sunlight. But that's just reality. I accept that now. Because what other option is there in a city where the population is only going in one direction? Do we want the city to spread out even further, chewing up land that is much better used for things like growing food? Of course, we don't. If there's one very small example of how the city has just kept on spreading outwards, it would be Musgroves - the second-hand building supplies outfit in Wigram. I'm still amazed at how that place is surrounded by buildings now. When I remember it being pretty much in the wops not all that long ago. And, if we don't allow the city to become more built-up, we're just going to see more and more houses built in places like Rolleston and Prebbleton. Which aren't in Christchurch - they're in the Selwyn district. Which means more and more people travelling into the city every day, using Christchurch's roading infrastructure but not paying a bean towards it. Because they pay their rates to Selwyn. But let's come back to councillor Andrei Moore - who is saying today that the council has ballsed this up. He said back in April that he thought it was nuts that the council was insisting on pushing back on more intensified housing in Christchurch. He said - and I agreed with him a hundred percent at the time (and I still do) that “it's high time we wake up and deal with the reality of city growth”. What's more, it hasn't been cheap. The most recent, available figures show that the council has spent about $7 million fighting the Government's proposals. It's not a total loss for the council. Three of its ideas have been accepted by the Government, which include increasing the building height limit on the old stockyards on Deans Ave to 36 metres. Mayor Phil Mauger says: “We obviously wanted to get our alternative recommendations approved. So, to only have three of them get the tick, is a kick in the guts.” As a result of the Government telling the city council to pull its head in, we're potentially or eventually going to see 10-storey apartment buildings within 600 metres of suburban shopping areas. Even if it means neighbouring properties losing sunlight. Urbanist group Greater Ōtautahi thinks it's brilliant and gives the city certainty. They say the quarter-acre dream of a standalone house on a large section is unsustainable. Spokesperson M. Grace-Stent says: “Not everyone wants to live the exact same lifestyle. Allowing more housing to be built allows people to make that choice for themselves.” They say: “We want people to be living near the city centre, near the amenities, not pushed out further and further into the Canterbury plains”. And they'll get no argument from me. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"I don't know what it is about writing," muses Linwood Barclay in the opening moments of this conversation. "Even when you've had success and think, 'I don't have to write anymore, I've got money in the bank,' there's always this feeling that if I could write just one more book, maybe it'll be perfect."This pursuit of the perfect novel drives our fascinating conversation with the New York Times and Sunday Times bestselling author, whose journey from aspiring writer facing countless rejections to international success offers a masterclass in patience and perseverance. Barclay candidly reveals how his 30-year career in newspapers provided invaluable training before publishing his first novel at 49, and how it was actually his fifth book, "No Time For Goodbye" that became his breakout hit.We delve into publishing industry changes, the challenges of adaptation attempts, and the reason his latest supernatural thriller "Whistle" (which aims to make toy trains as terrifying as horror cinema has made dolls) was the most fun he's had writing in a decade.Whether you're a writer seeking inspiration or a reader curious about the mind behind bestselling thrillers, this episode offers wisdom, humour, and Linwood Barclay's surprisingly practical advice for authors.Send us a textSupport the show"Enjoying 'The Conversation'? Support the podcast by buying me a cup of coffee ☕️! Every contribution helps keep the show going.https://ko-fi.com/nadinemathesonDon't forget to subscribe, download and review. You can purchase books by the authors featured in our conversations through my affiliate shop on Bookshop.org. By using this link, you'll be supporting independent bookstores, and I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. Follow Me:www.nadinematheson.com BlueSky: @nadinematheson.com Substack: @nadinematheson Instagram: @queennadsThreads: @nadinematheson Facebook: nadinemathesonbooksTikTok: @writer_nadinematheson

Contact us and Get more information!  Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/  Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net  YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw  Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY    Join us for Worship!  Sundays at 10:30am  First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879 

Episode 3043 of the Vietnam Veteran News Podcast will feature a story about Vietnam Veteran Linwood Riddick who recently graduated from college as he celebrated his 80th birthday. The featured story appeared on NPR radio and was titled: He graduated … Continue reading →

Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

We would LOVE to hear what you think. Please drop a line.    Rockin' Out with Linwood Strange: Classic Vibes from Worcester, MA In this electrifying episode, we dive deep into the heart of classic rock with the talented four-piece band, Linwood Strange, hailing from Worcester, MA. Known for their high-energy performances and infectious melodies, these guys draw inspiration from rock legends like AC/DC, Thin Lizzy, and Cheap Trick, crafting a sound that's both nostalgic and fresh.Join us as we sit down for an engaging interview with the members of Linwood Strange. Get the inside scoop on their musical journey, band dynamics, and what it means to create authentic rock music in today's scene. With their camaraderie and passion for the genre, it's clear that these guys are not just bandmates—they're lifelong friends.Plus, don't miss the chance to hear their latest track, “Ass, Grass or Gas,” at the end of the episode! With its catchy riffs and powerful lyrics, this song perfectly encapsulates the essence of Linwood Strange.Tune in for a conversation filled with laughter, rock anecdotes, and a celebration of the music that brings us all together. Whether you're a classic rock aficionado or just looking for some good tunes, this episode is sure to deliver. Rock on! Listen now and discover why Linwood Strange is making waves in the classic rock scene!Support the show

“When I said I wanted to bring horses to Linwood, people started clapping before I could even finish the sentence.” David Silver's journey from Westchester County, New York to Detroit's 12th Street-Davidson area is anything but typical—but it's also exactly what makes his work with Detroit Horse Power so impactful. On this episode of Detroit is Different, Silver reflects on a life shaped by horses, privilege, and a growing awareness of inequity. “I grew up in a bubble,” he admits, describing his upbringing in an affluent community where he had access to elite horseback riding training. But when Teach for America brought him to Burns Elementary on Grand River and Greenfield, his world expanded—and so did his mission. “I had students who were persevering through life every single day, but didn't realize that was a strength.” He saw firsthand the character traits needed to thrive—resilience, empathy, confidence—and began to connect them back to his own experiences with horses. The result: a vision for a program that introduces Detroit youth to equestrian life while building essential life skills. “You fall off a horse, you get back on. That's life.” With community support and a forthcoming $12 million equestrian center being built in Hope Village on the former Paul Robeson Academy site, Silver is literally transforming empty space into a sanctuary of possibility. “This ain't Mr. Ed,” he jokes. “This is about power, about confidence, about trust.” His 10-year journey to this point has been one of endurance and evolution, driven by community relationships, the guidance of Detroit elders, and a powerful belief that “every kid deserves the chance to say, ‘what else can I do?'” This conversation is a deep dive into how culture, education, and nature can intersect to heal communities. Detroit is Different is a podcast hosted by Khary Frazier covering people adding to the culture of an American Classic city. Visit www.detroitisdifferent.com to hear, see and experience more of what makes Detroit different. Follow, like, share, and subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes, Google Play, and Sticher. Comment, suggest and connect with the podcast by emailing info@detroitisdifferent.com

We were all standing up and cheering the Christchurch City Council three years ago, when it flipped the bird at the Government over housing intensification. Because there was no way we were going to agree to three, three-story houses being built on one section. But I've changed my thinking. Eventually, the city council kind-of pulled its head in. But it's still dragging the chain a bit and wants more time before agreeing to what the Government wants. But one city councillor, at least, thinks we should stop dragging the chain, that we should get with the programme and allow this intensification to happen. And I agree with him. I think he's making a very good point. Maybe it's because my stance on intensification has eased since 2022, when the council told the Government in no uncertain terms that it wasn't interested in having three, three-story houses on one section. And I think Christchurch city councillor Andrei Moore is making a very good argument in favour of greater housing density. Saying that, if we don't let it happen, more and more houses will be built in places like Rolleston and Prebbleton. Which are not in Christchurch, they're in the Selwyn District, and that will mean more and more people travelling into the city every day, using Christchurch's roading infrastructure and not paying a bean towards it. Because they don't live in Christchurch city - they live in Selwyn. And he's saying we should stop kicking the can down the road and just get on with it. Instead of spending another year resisting it, we need to accept that greater housing density is here whether we like it or not. He says: “It's high time we wake up and deal with the reality of city growth.” And I couldn't agree more. And yes, that does mean that my stance on intensification has changed, and there's nothing wrong with that. The plan originally was to let developments with three, three-storey properties to be built on one section pretty much anywhere. But it was modified a bit. Modified to restrict this level of intensification to the central city, around shopping centres and what's described as "walkable distances" from core public transport routes. Which is still pretty carte blanche when you think about shopping malls and areas on core public transport routes. As far as shopping malls go, we've got the likes of the Hub Hornby, Riccarton Mall, Bush Inn, the Tannery, Barrington Mall, Tower Junction, Eastgate Mall, Merivale Mall, Northlands Mall, Fendalton Mall, the Palms, Homebase, and the Colombo. Which means intensification getting the green light in Hornby, Riccarton, Opawa, Barrington, Linwood, Merivale all the way up to Northlands, Fendalton, Shirley, Sydenham and Beckenham. And, if that's how it has to be, then I'm with Andrei Moore and I agree with him that we need to bite the bullet and get on with it. Because A: we've got a housing affordability problem in this country, and the quarter-acre section is a thing of the past. So, if you want your kids to be able to afford to buy their own place, it's not going to be somewhere with a big backyard. So we need more apartments and townhouses - the places you get with greater housing density. And B: population growth is real. The numbers aren't massive, but they're real and expected to continue in the upwards direction. The city's population is around 396,000. Last year it was 1.2% up on the year before. Over the last five years, population growth in Christchurch has averaged 1.3% annually. Before the quakes, it was declining. There was an especially large jump in 2023, when the population in Christchurch city increased by 2.7%. And city councillors pushing back on greater housing density in Christchurch are ignoring the obvious. That, yes, backyards are great. Yes, Christchurch is supposed to be the garden city. And yes, the people against intensification are most likely to be the people who can be bothered to vote. But, if they put all that aside, they'd see that their colleague Andrei Moore is being realistic. And I agree with him that it's time for Christchurch to stop pushing back on greater housing intensification. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Martin speaks with Football Coach, Youtuber and Politician Craig Houston. To find out more about him. Growing up in Linwood, love of Rangers, How Sons of Struth started, Youtube and more. Craig's Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@CraigHoustonTalksTo Youtube Members

Linwood Barclay's literary journey started with writing fanfiction on a typewriter. Over 20 books and millions of copies later, he's one of Canada's most successful living writers. His intricate thrillers have captivated audiences around the world — and his newest book, Whistle, comes out in May. Linwood joins Mattea Roach to talk about how he dreams up big thrillers, being mentored by the greats and why he loves model trains. You can also catch Linwood this week as a panellist on Canada Reads 2025. He's championing the book Jennie's Boy by Wayne Johnston. Canada Reads airs from March 17th to 20th. Find out more at cbcbooks.ca.

Your Pal Justin sits down for an in depth conversation with Dr. of Pipes, Linwood Hines.Show Sponsor: Redeemed Pipesredeemedpipes.cominstagram.com/redeemedpipesfacebook.com/redeemedestatepipesebay.com/usr/redeemedpipesIf you would like to support the podcast mission of providing a smoking lounge atmosphere for those that don't have one, see the options at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/pipespourspalsPipes, Pours, and PalsPO Box 432Daleville, IN 47334Call "The Pipeline" and leave us a message to potentially be used on air at 209-677-7473 (209-Mrs-Pipe)Email us at pipespoursandpals@gmail.comInstagram@PipesPoursAndPals@TheCoffeePotCodger@IndianaNateDiscord Server https://discord.com/invite/usDUUja2qp

A special message from Elder Linwood Bagby at the First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy - "Where Church Feels Like Home"   Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

Supporting Alabama's youth in agriculture— that's the goal of the Southeastern Livestock Exposition (SLE), and your ticket to the show contributes to that mission. SLE President Linwood McClain joins host Kayla Greer in studio to reflect on the SLE's history, its unique mission and share details about this year's event. Learn more at www.SLERodeo.com. 

For over 36 years, the people of Linwood, Kansas, have been asking the same question… what happened to Randy Leach?If you know anything about the disappearance of Randy Leach on April 15, 1988, in Linwood, KS, or may have seen his car, a 1985 Dodge 600 sedan with Kansas plate LVJ8721, please contact the Kansas Bureau of Investigation at 1-800-572-7463.For more information about Randy and the efforts to find him, please visit InSearchofRandyLeach.com.  To learn more about the other Randy Leach, listen to The Deck's Randall Leach (4 of Hearts, Idaho) You can learn more about The Good segment and even submit a story of your own by visiting The Good page on our website! Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit: crimejunkiepodcast.com/missing-randy-leach/Did you know you can listen to this episode ad-free? Join the Fan Club! Visit crimejunkie.app/library/ to view the current membership options and policies.Don't miss out on all things Crime Junkie!Instagram: @crimejunkiepodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @CrimeJunkiePod | @audiochuckTikTok: @crimejunkiepodcastFacebook: /CrimeJunkiePodcast | /audiochuckllcCrime Junkie is hosted by Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat. Instagram: @ashleyflowers | @britprawatTwitter: @Ash_Flowers | @britprawatTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!

Lynn Ann Clausing Rusch Executive Director Linwood Community, A Ministry of Fox Valley Lutheran Homes Phone: 920-734-7225 Email: lynnann.fvlhomes@gmail.com

Hey everyone! Our friends Linwood and Erin join us for a kiki as we chat about what's been going on in pop culture news, grabbing our attention, and just having a really good time! We discuss things from Sabrina Carpenter + Barry Keoghan's breakup, Kendrick Lamar + Drake beef, United Healthcare CEO murder, etc. Come on and have some fun with us! #sabrinacarpenter #barrykeoghan #kendricklamar #drake #unitedheathcareceo #celebritynews #entertainmentnews #popculture #popculturepodcast #thepopculturegreenroom

In this final episode of our series on Pocahontas, we see Pocahontas navigate life as a kidnapped young woman. She gets a marriage proposal. She ushers in an era of peace for her people. She gives birth. She's taken to England. At one point, she tells off that douchelord, John Smith. Her life story presents challenges for historians, not just because Native American oral history conflicts with English sources, but because she held so many roles in her short life – often at the same time. She was a survivor, a victim, a diplomat, a spy, an adventurer, a mother, a wife, a peacekeeper, an aristocrat, and a curiosity. Through it all, one thing is certain: Pocahontas's life was remarkably short, but her impact is incalculable. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Custalow, Linwood, and Angela L. Daniel. The True Story of Pocahontas. Fulcrum Publishing, 2007. “John Rolfe | Historic Jamestowne,” n.d. https://historicjamestowne.org/history/pocahontas/john-rolfe/. Rountree, Helen C. Pocahontas's People: The Powhatan Indians of Virginia through Four Centuries. University of Oklahoma Press, 1996. “Thomas Rolfe | Historic Jamestowne,” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/thomas-rolfe.htm. Townsend, Camilla. Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemna. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2004. Woodward, Grace Steele. Pocahontas. Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1969. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court. Thank you to our sponsors! Hello Fresh. Get 10 FREE meals at HelloFresh.com/freeotp. Applied across 7 boxes, new subscribers only, varies by plan. Miracle Made. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. TryMiracle.com/OTP

In this episode, tensions rise and true crime abounds. And, like an old timey episode of Dateline, it starts off peachy keen! Pocahontas married a warrior. She had a child. She lived what seemed to be a happy, normal life. But being the favorite daughter of Chief Wahunsenaca put a target on her back. It wasn't long before English settlers decided to kidnap her. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Custalow, Linwood, and Angela L. Daniel. The True Story of Pocahontas. Fulcrum Publishing, 2007. “History Timeline | Historic Jamestowne,” n.d. https://historicjamestowne.org/history/jamestown-timeline/. “Jane | Historic Jamestowne,” n.d. https://historicjamestowne.org/archaeology/jane/. “John Rolfe | Historic Jamestowne,” n.d. “Pocahontas: Her Life and Legend,” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/pocahontas-her-life-and-legend.htm. Townsend, Camilla. Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemna. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2004. Woodward, Grace Steele. Pocahontas. Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1969. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court. Thank you to our sponsor! Miracle Made. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and save over 40% OFF. TryMiracle.com/OTP

Chief Wahunsenaca was in a tough spot. English settlers were camped out nearby, desperate for food but heavily armed. He thought he might bring them under his fold by offering them food and community. To help ensure meetings remained peaceful, he sent his favorite daughter, Pocahontas, as a sign of trust. Over the next year, Pocahontas frequently visited Jamestown. She brought food, taught the settlers her language, and played with the English kids. Despite this offering, John Smith, the leader of the settlers, wasn't willing to cede control. He made false promises. He reneged on negotiations. And he even got a lil' creepy with Pocahontas! Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: “Captain John Smith - Historic Jamestowne Part of Colonial National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service),” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/life-of-john-smith.htm. Custalow, Linwood, and Angela L. Daniel. The True Story of Pocahontas. Fulcrum Publishing, 2007. “History Timeline | Historic Jamestowne,” n.d. https://historicjamestowne.org/history/jamestown-timeline/. Townsend, Camilla. Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemna. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2004. Woodward, Grace Steele. Pocahontas. Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1969. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court.

This short episode is a brief introduction to my research project about 18th century embroidery artist Mary Linwood. The episode includes a very short history about her, and then details of the community projects I'm running over the next few months, that you can take part in too. You can find out about them below, as well as a bit more about Mary Linwood here. Stitching Emotions: Collaborative project for the Mary Linwood exhibition Connected Threads: A community textiles project Find full details about the episode, including a transcript: https://ruthsinger.com/2024/11/22/mary-linwood-and-me-making-meaning-podcast-episode-45

When the English popped up on the shore of the “New World,” they were in rough shape. They didn't have much food, knew next to nothing about their surroundings, and had a boatload of diseases. The English also brought with them an interesting worldview. They figured that Native Americans would be thrilled to: Give them food, work for them, change religions, and one day pay taxes to the King. They thought wrong. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Custalow, Linwood, and Angela L. Daniel. The True Story of Pocahontas. Fulcrum Publishing, 2007. “The Lost Colony - Fort Raleigh National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service),” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/fora/learn/historyculture/the-lost-colony.htm. “The Virginia Company of London - Historic Jamestowne Part of Colonial National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service),” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/the-virginia-company-of-london.htm. Townsend, Camilla. Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemna. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2004. Woodward, Grace Steele. Pocahontas. Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1969. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court.

Over the years, Pocahontas' life story has become distorted, sensationalized and mythologized. Hell, it even got turned into an exceptionally crappy Disney movie! In this series, Norm separates fact from fiction as he delves into the complicated, fascinating life of Pocahontas. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Custalow, Linwood, and Angela L. Daniel. The True Story of Pocahontas. Fulcrum Publishing, 2007. Henricus. “Making a House a Home in Powhatan Indian Communities,” January 31, 2020. https://henricus.org/2020/01/31/making-a-house-a-home-in-powhatan-indian-communities/. Townsend, Camilla. Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemna. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2004. Woodward, Grace Steele. Pocahontas. Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1969. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court.

The Bobcats coach previews his team's game with St. James Academy

Furqan Mohammed, nephew of Elijah Muhammad, gives his first exclusive podcast interview to Detroit is Different, sharing the remarkable story of his life and family. Furqan opens up about how his family collectively joined the Nation of Islam, tracing their strong and self-determined beginnings from Georgia to Detroit's historic Black Bottom. He details how the teachings of WD Fard Muhammad in Black Bottom welcomed his family, and how his uncle Elijah Muhammad rose to leadership as the messenger for the Nation of Islam. Furqan also shares memories of his family running a restaurant next to the Nation of Islam Mosque on Linwood for generations. This interview offers a unique glimpse into Detroit's history, Black history, and American history through the lens of Furqan's family. Attorney Gregory Reed, who will be traveling and exhibiting artifacts of Furqan's father, made the interview possible. Detroit is Different is a podcast hosted by Khary Frazier covering people adding to the culture of an American Classic city. Visit www.detroitisdifferent.com to hear, see and experience more of what makes Detroit different. Follow, like, share, and subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes, Google Play, and Sticher. Comment, suggest and connect with the podcast by emailing info@detroitisdifferent.com Find out more at https://detroit-is-different.pinecast.co Send us your feedback online: https://pinecast.com/feedback/detroit-is-different/5520a86d-a08c-45b6-bc52-5c71bb4bc481

We dive deep into the vibrant world of open relationships with returning guests CJ, Linwood and their partner April. Your Pleasurespan.

A crowdfunding campaign is on to gather the last bit of money for a waterfront park on Saginaw Bay in Linwood. A conceptual vision is out for the site of the old Consumers Energy Karn power plant. For more, visit https://mrgreatlakes.com/

The Wildcats coach previews his team's game with Basehor-Linwood

The Bobcats coach previews his team's 2024 season

Bible Teaching from Elder Linwood Bagby at the First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy - "Where Church Feels Like Home"   Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

Bible teaching from Elder Linwood Bagby at the First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy - Where Church Feels Like Home.   Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

Bible Teaching from Elder Linwood Bagby at the First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy - "Where Church Feels Like Home" Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

Happy Monday! Let's get this holiday week started. The largest urban equestrian center in the nation is coming right here to the city of Detroit, and we're going to talk about it. Jer sits down with David Silver, founder and executive director of Detroit Horsepower, a nonprofit that teaches Detroit students to ride and care for horses. This new facility aims to develop critical skills in students, setting them up for academic, career, and life success. They discuss the transformational impact of working with horses, the five core social-emotional skills the program focuses on, and the journey to building this massive project on the former Paul Robeson school site at Linwood and Fenkell in the city. David shares the planning and community engagement that has gone into making this dream a reality, including the $11.4 million project budget, the $6.6 million already committed, and the targeted groundbreaking in fall 2024. They also touch on the importance of new market tax credits and the various funding sources that have been pivotal in reaching this stage.  Don't forget: Our annual listener survey: https://forms.gle/kzWXWh4NLkZPbyo79 Our Happy Hour on July 11 at The Royce Detroit: Feedback as always - dailydetroit - at - gmail - dot - com or 313-789-3211 Follow us on Apple Podcasts: https://lnk.to/dailydetroitonapple Or Spotify: https://lnk.to/dailydetroitonspotify Thanks to our members: http://www.patreon.com/dailydetroit

Jay smothers Weird Al with love and appreciation for Al's perfection in his parody. We talk about Mad Magazine, Looney Tunes, pizza, travel, doing what you want, the power of an orchestra, the two pulls of being a comic vs a musician, how a true showman can come out of Linwood, and giving up architecture for being a professional goofball/genius. Bio: FEW WOULD HAVE GUESSED that “Weird Al” Yankovic – who as a shy, accordion-playing teenager got his start sending in homemade tapes to the Dr. Demento Radio Show– would go on to become a pop culture icon and the biggest-selling comedy recording artist of all time, with classic song and music video parodies such as“Eat It,” “Like a Surgeon,” “Smells Like Nirvana,” “Amish Paradise,” “White & Nerdy” and “Word Crimes.”  Now in his fourth decade as America's foremost song parodist, he has been the recipient of numerous awards, including five Grammys® (out of sixteen total nominations) and a string of Gold and Platinum albums.In 2015 and 2016, Weird Al's Mandatory World Tour encompassed 200 shows throughout the U.S., Canada, Europe and Australia, including two nights at the Hollywood Bowl and a sold-out gig at New York's Radio City Music Hall.  In the spring of 2018, Al performed 77 shows as part of his Ridiculously Self-Indulgent, Ill-Advised Vanity Tour, where he and his bandmates of over 35 years played setlists composed almost entirely of his original (non-parody) material, and without any of their signature over-the-top theatrics (no costumes, props or video screens). And in 2019 Weird Al followed up his most bare-bones tour with his most extravagant tour ever – Strings Attached – where he and his band were backed for each of their 67 shows by female singers and a full symphony orchestra.Weird Al's 14th studio album, the Grammy® award-winning Mandatory Fun (2014), became the first comedy album in history to debut at #1 on the Billboard Top 200 chart, and the first to even reach the top of that chart since 1963.  Yankovic set the U.S. record on Spotify for having the most tracks from one album in the viral top 10 at one time, taking the top four spots.  In addition, “Word Crimes” debuted in the Billboard Top 40, making Al one of only four artists to have had Top 40 singles in each of the last four decades (the other three being Michael Jackson, Madonna and U2).Al has remained active as a recording artist.  June 2017 saw the release of Captain Underpants: The First Epic Movie (Dreamworks), for which Al co-wrote and performed the film's theme song.  In August 2017, Al wrote and performed “The North Korea Polka (Please Don't Nuke Us)” for Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO). In November 2017 Legacy Recordings released Squeeze Box: The Complete Works of “Weird Al” Yankovic, a remastered 15-disc box set (including a rarities album) plus a 120-page book of archival photos, all housed in a replica of Weird Al's trademark accordion. Al also recorded cover versions of the Squidbillies theme for Adult Swim and the Ramones' “Beat on the Brat” for a Dr. Demento compilation album, and produced remixes of two hit singles for Portugal. The Man (“Feel It Still” and “Live in the Moment”).  And March 2018 brought us “The Hamilton Polka,” a frantic tour de force mash-up of 14 songs from the Broadway smash, commissioned by Lin-Manuel Miranda himself and released as part of his “Hamildrops” series.In addition to his cult-hit feature film UHF (1989), his late ‘90s CBS Saturday morning series The Weird Al Show and numerous AL-TV specials he has made for MTV and VH1 over the years, Yankovic has remained a staple of film and television, from appearances on The Simpsons, 30 Rock, The Goldbergs and How I Met Your Mother to performing live on the Primetime Emmy Awards and starring in his own concert specials for Disney, VH1 and Comedy Central.  In 2015 Yankovic took over as co-host and bandleader for the fifth season of IFC's Comedy Bang! Bang!  Currently Al can be heard as the voice of the title character in Disney Channel's animated series Milo Murphy's Law (his other voice acting work includes appearances on Bojack Horseman, Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Wander Over Yonder, and the DC animated feature Batman vs. Robin). Yankovic added “New York Times bestselling author” to his resumé in 2011 with the release of his children's book, When I Grow Up (HarperCollins), followed two years later by My New Teacher and Me!  An animated series based on his children's books is currently being developed in partnership with the Jim Henson Company.   2012 saw the release of Weird Al: The Book (Abrams), an illustrated hardcover on Al's life and career, and in 2015 Yankovic became not only MAD Magazine's cover boy, but the first guest editor in their 63-year history.In 2017 NECA Toys released the second in its line of retro-clothed Weird Al action figures, and in 2018 Funko released two of its own POP! vinyl figures.  On August 27, 2018, the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce awarded “Weird Al” Yankovic with the 2,643rd star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

[00:00:00] Carl LaBarbera: I met a guy, Dick Berry, who was a professional in the Policy Governance arena. And once I took his class, I was convinced that this was what I needed to do board work. And the reason for that is because primarily my own work in aerospace industry, knowing that systems and procedures are essential to do any kind of job that's going to be effective. [00:00:26] Carl LaBarbera: And when Policy Governance was presented that's the kind of system that I was seeing. And so, a complete, scientific system with procedures and thinking about all the elements of governance was something I needed. [00:00:42] Tommy Thomas:  My guest today is Carl LaBarbera. I met Carl several years ago at his home in Southern California.  He was gracious to give me a couple of hours that afternoon, and we've maintained some loose contact with each other since then.  One of the areas of expertise he has is that of Policy Governance, and I've known that, from the afternoon I met him, so as I was thinking about more guests we could have in the area of board service, Carl was one of the ones I wanted to have, so thank you, Carl, for joining us this afternoon. [00:01:14] Carl LaBarbera: Thank you, Tommy. It's my pleasure to be here and look forward to our conversation. [00:01:19] Tommy Thomas: Before we dig too deep into Policy Governance, how did you get interested in or involved in nonprofit board service? [00:01:29] Carl LaBarbera: That goes back 40 years. So, it's interesting. I don't know how far back you want me to go. [00:01:37] Carl LaBarbera: I can go back to my childhood because my dad had a company in inner city LA which is a very difficult area. [00:01:48] Tommy Thomas: Back then, especially, [00:01:49] Carl LaBarbera:   When I was a very young child, I was 11 years old when the Watts Riots occurred. And my mother and I were driving into the business in South LA. [00:01:59] Carl LaBarbera: And the Watts Riots were underway. And my mom swears that a black woman flagged off attackers.  She was in front of us, and we were able to drive into the business, but we had no idea. The news was not like it is today.  We literally drove into it. So that obviously left a big impression on me as a kid. [00:02:22] Carl LaBarbera: And I've had a heart for the inner city ever since. And we continued, actually, my brother and I took over the business that my dad had started and in 1957 after the war and in continued in that Watts area, but then we were bought out by the freeway and moved just slightly south of there in an area in Linwood, which is still South LA [00:02:48] Carl LaBarbera:  So that connection of having a business in that community and actually knowing the neighbors in that community, in the Watts community, which was primarily African American gave me that heart. And then I was listening to Focus on The Family. I would wake up in the morning, six o'clock in the morning, with Focus on The Family on the radio. [00:03:09] Carl LaBarbera: And Dr. Dobson was talking with Keith Phillips, who is the founder of World Impact, and talking about Watts. And I thought to myself, wow, that's literally across the street. And so, I made a journey to introduce myself to World Impact. At the time it was a Canadian director who was leading that Watts ministry. [00:03:33] Carl LaBarbera: And we got to become good friends in our company partnered with World Impact to help the missionaries in the Watts community and help them in any way we can to support them in their ministry. [00:03:45] Tommy Thomas: Wow. That goes back a long way. [00:03:49] Carl LaBarbera: We're talking 1990s. Yeah. At the time I met him, it was late eighties or early nineties. [00:03:55] Tommy Thomas: Did you have any kind of mentorship relative to board service? Did you have a model or a role model? [00:04:03] Carl LaBarbera: I think, my interest in board work really began with our own company. That was the work that I love to do, having a 30,000-foot perspective, being able to work at that high level, conceptual level seeing all the pieces in an organization the teamwork necessary to make an organization successful. [00:04:25] Carl LaBarbera: I got a hunger for that level of leadership in our own company, but where I was introduced to Policy Governance was at the Christian Management Association. So, I was a member of the association, which was called the Christian Management Association. Now it's called Christian Leadership Alliance. [00:04:44] Carl LaBarbera: And I met a guy, Dick Berry, who was a professional in the Policy Governance arena. And once I took his class, I was convinced that this was what I needed to do board work. And the reason for that is because primarily my own work in the aerospace industry, knowing that systems and procedures are essential to do any kind of job that's going to be effective. [00:05:11] Carl LaBarbera: And when Policy Governance was presented that's the kind of system that I was seeing. And so, a complete, scientific system with procedures and thinking about all the elements of governance was something I needed. And then of course, serving with a friend from church who was an urban ministry leader when he started his nonprofit Urban Youth Workers Institute and asked me to join his board and chair his board, John Carver. [00:05:44] Carl LaBarbera: It was like, what do I use to run a board? Because there's really nothing other than best practice information as to how you actually chair and run a board, how you lead a board. And so that's why policy governance just rung a bell for me, and I knew it was something I had to learn and be very good at. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:06:05] Tommy Thomas:  Get up at 50,000, 100,000 feet and look down. What's the primary purpose of the nonprofit board? One role of the Board is dealing with the risk factor.  Mitigating or at least evaluate risk to determine what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. [00:06:12] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, there is one, one primary purpose with two parts actually. And I can just simplify that to say get the mission done and stay out of trouble. So, there's two elements. And what we say, what we call mission, and we call ENDS is what benefit for what people at what worth. [00:06:33] Carl LaBarbera: So those three elements make up the mission or the ENDS. And then there's the risk factor. So, a board is there to mitigate risk or at least evaluate risk and to determine what's acceptable and what's not acceptable but that's the keeping the organization out of trouble part, right? [00:06:51] Carl LaBarbera: So, get the mission done, stay out of trouble. That's their primary purpose. And, but let me add that all that's done on behalf of someone. Especially in nonprofits, in a corporation, right? You are beholden to the shareholders. A board works on behalf of the shareholders. There are no shareholders in the nonprofit world, but what Carver was smart enough to know is that we're, the board is beholden to some, they don't own the organization, the CEO, the staff, they don't own the organization, who owns the organization? [00:07:25] Carl LaBarbera: In the church, we say Jesus owns it. Of course, he owns it all, but Jesus owns the organization, which is cool because he left us a whole book of values that we know that we are beholden to, that we need to comply with. But secondarily, there are owners or what we call care holders or stakeholders on the organization. [00:07:49] Carl LaBarbera: I could talk about the global church as owning a nonprofit. So, we need to be aware of the values of the global church. We could talk about those that the organization impacts. Not the beneficiaries so much, but the communities that would have an interest in the organization. So, when we determine who the owners are, the moral owners, we call them, who is interested in seeing this organization succeed, who is interested in the benefits that this nonprofit will bring. [00:08:24] Carl LaBarbera: And those are the people that we are beholden to, not in a democratic way, not like we're looking for them to give us majority rule direction, but in a way like a doctor or a lawyer would work in the best interest of their ownership. So, the client comes to the doctor. Obviously, the client knows something about their ailment, but the doctor knows more, they're an informed agent. [00:08:50] Carl LaBarbera: Or Robert Greenleaf would say a trustee. So, a trustee, their job is to follow the direction of the trust that is given to them. And that trust is the trust that the ownership holds. And so, the board is to determine what are those values and determine what is in the best interest of those stakeholders. [00:09:12] Carl LaBarbera:  That derives a whole set of policies, which then give direction to the organization. The role of the Board Chair is that of Chief Governance Officer – making sure that the Board accomplishes what is says it is going to do. [00:09:21] Tommy Thomas: Under this model, what's the primary role of the Board Chair? [00:09:25] Carl LaBarbera: The Board Chair is called the C.G.O. So Chief Governing Officer.  So, the Chief Governing Officer, the primary role really is to assure that the board accomplishes what it says it's going to do. In a sense, the chairman is a manager of the board itself to assure that whatever they said they were going to do, because they have a role, they have a job description, and to assure that they get that job done. But I'd also say that the chair is the interface or maybe the primary interface with the CEO. It's very important that chairman has a really solid relationship with the CEO, that there's a clear understanding that there's complete communication on both sides in order for that chairman to do his job well. [00:10:16] Tommy Thomas: Give me some words and phrases that maybe would describe the skillset that this chair needs to do his or her job well. [00:10:25] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, that really starts with character. Especially in a Christian organization, but any nonprofit really, but it's the character. So that's essential. I think essential elements are wisdom over a lot of experience, preferably humility is very important. I think a humble leader, a servant leader. So, I love Robert Greenleaf and all his writing on servant leadership, and I'm deeply indebted to Robert Greenleaf and his description of what a servant leader does. So that chairman really needs to be that servant leader like Jesus commanded. If you want to be a leader in the kingdom, you have to be the least of all. So that chairman serves the board, and they serve the CEO and they serve the organization. [00:11:13] Tommy Thomas: I know this would vary, but just from your experience, how often does the chair meet with the CEO to maintain this relationship and this esprit de corps? [00:11:25] Carl LaBarbera: World Impact is a good example. And Alvin Sanders, the CEO, and I have a standing meeting once a week on a Monday morning. And we try to communicate with one another on a regular basis just to have that regular flow of communication, what's going on in your world. What's going on from my perspective. And, of course, planning together what the agenda is going to be for the year and for the next meeting. All those things are critical and talking through what issues are important for the CEO to comply with the board policy manual. The board has created, in helping that process.  A lot of times I need to help educate the CEO in the process of Policy Governance. Because there are not a lot of Policy Governance experts out there. And yeah, you don't see that a lot. So, part of it is educating as well. [00:12:19] Tommy Thomas: When you get a new board member what's the best way to onboard this person? [00:12:25] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah. The first thing we do is provide the documents that we've created. So, it's really important for a new board member to understand the process, certainly. So, what is this process called Policy Governance? It's very different from what most people experience. I think I know beyond several boards that many board members want to show up and display their wisdom and their good decision-making skills. And that's really not, that's not what the board is all about. We want that, certainly, but the board needs to understand the process. The beauty of Policy Governance is that all of the things that need to be known are in a policy, a board policy manual, and that manual is less than 30 pages, and it covers all four aspects of what we would call the policy circle regarding CEO role the board role, the chairman role the interaction between the board and the CEO what the mission is and what the limitations are, the things that we can't do as an organization, even if they worked, things illegal or unbiblical. A good Board Policy Manual provides invaluable information for new Board members.  This manual is usually less than 30 pages. So that board policy manual really provides invaluable information to anyone coming on board gives them all the information they need. They're not going to get it all in the first read through, but all the information is there, and they can study that. And the other thing we do is, obviously we want them to know what the bylaws are and what the expectations are in terms of meetings, etc. So, it's really just a quick update getting board members up to date on where we've been, where we're going, and how we operate. [00:14:14] Tommy Thomas: Let me ask you to get you to respond to this quote about a board service. Somebody said, “You need a director on a board who will be a pleasant irritant, someone who will force people to think a little differently. That's what a good board does.” [00:14:29] Carl LaBarbera: I love that because one of the things I strive for is called healthy, I call it healthy conflict. There's probably a better word than conflict, healthy discussion, which means we really want honest feedback from all our board members. So having that, and we definitely have those. A good irritant is someone who really is just thinking through. They're thinking from their perspective, and they're offering their perspective, and we need to hear it. Even if it's opposed to the direction that, we think we need to go, we need to know who was it that talked about Ruth Haley Barton. She talked about working together, finding God's will together. And you really need in teams, and I think it's any team, but including a board team, you need to know what the no people are saying. If someone's really objecting to where we're going, it's pertinent on us to determine what God is saying to that person. Why are they adamantly opposed? And if we don't take the time to figure that out, then we're neglecting our duty. As a board, so not again, obviously, you don't always achieve consensus, but I've been in situations on boards where we have worked it through taking some time and ultimately say there are two people that maybe don't agree, but they relent and say, we will submit to the wisdom of the board. And of course, one of the principles of Policy Governance is that we speak with one voice. After all the discussion and we finally get to the end of the day and we vote and some have to acknowledge that we don't agree, but we are going to speak with one voice when we're done with our work.  So that's critical. ++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:16:23] Tommy Thomas: Your thoughts on bringing younger people in their thirties and forties onto a nonprofit board? [00:16:30] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, I would love to see that.  And I would love to see young people have that interest. My experience has been that young people aren't the younger generation, millennials, maybe is my experience aren't as interested in what they might consider business-like work. So, say in a church setting, right? Or even in a Christian ministry setting, this is a business job in which I really have a problem with that because I'm a firm believer that God owns it all that he works through business and churches and our ministry happens in all realms of life, right? But that kind of perspective is, yeah, I don't want to be involved in that kind of business process, but every time I've seen young people engage in the process, it is so helpful. So, I would be a big fan. Where do we find them? I have seen them in the governance organization governed for impact, which I'm a fellow with, and we have seen their young people take a real interest in governance. And when they do, then it's highly valuable. We need their perspective, right? This is where the world's going. [00:17:49] Tommy Thomas: For sure. [00:17:51] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah. We need millennial perspective. We need Z perspective. Yeah, I value that. I wish we could get more of it. [00:17:59] Tommy Thomas: I run into this a lot in my work and has to do with the past CEO being a member of the board when, when you bring a new CEO on, your thoughts just from so many years of experience that you've had any observations there. It can be very difficult when a retiring CEO, especially a founder wants to remain as an emeritus Board Member.  That can restrict the ability of the new CEO to make mistakes and/or go in a different direction if that's what the organization needs. [00:18:14] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, that's tough. I've seen that in churches. I've seen it, I've seen it in other nonprofits. It's just, it's very difficult because when a CEO, who's especially a founder, CEO or a founding pastor and wants to be an emeritus board member or emeritus leader, even that really restricts the ability of that new CEO to be free to make mistakes and go in a different direction to bring their unique skill set because each leader has a unique skill set and they should be allowed to use that. And so I just, I see it often doesn't work out very well. And you hear the phrase that you don't want to be the next guy. You want to be the guy after the next guy. Because oftentimes that first guy is still hanging around and influencing where it's going. And that could be debilitating. [00:19:06] Tommy Thomas: This is probably in your Policy Governance manual but tell us about CEO evaluation. [00:19:13] Carl LaBarbera: That's an ongoing process. So, it is not a once-a-year process, although we do a summarized once-a-year process, but in the board policy manual the policies pertain particularly to the CEO or the executive director or the lead pastor. Those things that are called the Ends. So those are what benefits for what people at what worth. And then there are the executive limitations. And there are quite a few of those limitations, as I said before, that are not allowed, even if they work, because they're illegal or biblical or other reasons. And so, we constantly have a calendar of monitoring. So there's a very specific process of monitoring those limitations, how that CEO is complying with the limitations, and how they're complying with the accomplishment of the mission or the end. And so that's done, I think the Ends probably are mostly done on a biannual basis, but the executive limitations as I said, on a calendar, they're done every meeting.  We're evaluating some aspects of that CEO's performance. [00:20:30] Tommy Thomas: So, under Policy Governance, do you use closed session or executive session a lot? Or is that not a part of the M.O. [00:20:40] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, no, not a lot at all. These are, there's nothing that is considered, not transparent unless there's something to do with, specific HR issues or something where it would be a problem legally, but otherwise now I believe in transparency. I believe this, everything we do at the board level should be transparent. I know as I chaired or on the executive committee at our church, everything we do there should be transparent to our membership. But it's, we do have, I know at World Impact, there is a session at the end of the year where we look at all the policy governance elements that either were complied or not complied with, but then we also get a little more personal and try to talk about their spiritual life, their personal life how, the communication with the board. So those are, those get to be touchy conversations, but necessary because that's part of the board's job is really to assure it's one of three responsibilities the board can't delegate. And that is to assure the success of the CEO and thus the organization. [00:21:57] Tommy Thomas: On strategic planning, from your perspective, how deep should the board get into that, or is that something that the CEO and his or her cabinet brings to the board? [00:22:08] Carl LaBarbera:  I'd like to think of strategic planning as a continuum of planning, right? When we do the ENDS work, the ENDS, again, are the high-level mission. It's what benefit, what people, at what worth. That is, that's the highest level of the strategic planning process. The board can get more specific about that policy of ENDS or mission, but then they stop. The job of the board is to stop communicating at the point which they're willing to allow any reasonable interpretation of that mission, right? It's hard work to determine that. So, trying to determine what it is that the board has to say to a CEO about the mission, but then allow freedom for him to have any reasonable interpretation or any strategic plan that can accomplish those ENDS.  That's the delicate part of developing that particular set of policies. It takes a lot of wisdom, prayer, and determination. You don't want to say too much because if the board is saying too much and prescribing too much, then that is not allowing our professional CEO to do their job well. ++++++++++++++++ [00:23:30] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to something that happened in mine and your era. People younger than us may not remember this, but certainly we do - the Enron scandal. And although they weren't a nonprofit, I'm sure there are things a nonprofit board can learn from that. But one of the writers that did some analysis there, his perspective was that probably the board didn't ask the tough questions that they needed to ask.  How do you get that done in a nonprofit? [00:23:58] Carl LaBarbera: Absolutely. And the way we get it done is through the policy manual. In the manual itself, in those executive limitations, we're asking the hard questions up front. There are limitations regarding financials. There are limitations regarding asset protection. There are limitations regarding staff. There are limitations regarding the relationship with the CEO to the board and all these things, safety issues. So that is the role of the board, is to think through. And Carver was genius about this in a scientific way. He thought through a dozen different categories of risk that the board needs to think about ahead of time. And of course, you're not going to think about all risks that can happen, especially today. It's so hard to figure out what's going to come at you at a pretty hard and rapid pace, but for the most part, to think in general, in a systematic way, what are all the risks that an organization might encounter? And to think about that in a systematic way and do it ahead of time and have those boundaries in place, which then provides the CEO freedom to do anything else. The beauty of policy governance is it lays out the boundaries of acceptability, like a football field and says, you have to stay within these parameters, within these limits, within the rules that we've outlined. You could do anything else to achieve your end if they haven't already been stated. So it's empowering to the CEO. It gives freedom to the CEO. It gives them freedom to make mistakes. But does provide those boundaries, which is clear communication between the board and the CEO. [00:25:45] Tommy Thomas: Go back to the Board Chair for a minute.  So you got but the two or three questions that I like to ask that, that I think the answers are good and one of them is, you get all the high power, which you want people that have got experience in making tough decisions dealing with complexity, dealing with risk But sometimes it's difficult for the, for those people to take the CEO hat off when they walk into the boardroom and become a member of the whole. Have you experienced that in recruiting board members and how have you effectively coached them into good board service? [00:26:19] Carl LaBarbera: So, are you asking, I just want to be clear, you're asking about those who have been or are CEOs that now become a part of the board, that kind of leader? [00:26:29] Tommy Thomas: Yeah, they're probably still the CEO in their organization and they've got an expertise that you need on the board. [00:26:34] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, exactly. Now that is a difficulty because, CEOs by nature are built to want to do strategy and make decisions and get things done. That is not the job of the board. And so, they really have to, and that's one of those characteristics of a good board members, you need to really set aside maybe your own leadership gifts to allow yourself to be a part of this team who is now going to operate from a 30,000 foot perspective, not at the operational level. Under Policy Governance, the Board's role is governance – not management.  That is a critical element of governance. Because that's not where we work. We are governance is not management. That is a critical element of governance. It is not management. We shouldn't be doing management work. We have professional CEOs that we've hired. We feel that the board members should be as professional as the CEO. Why shouldn't they be as trained and have as much expertise about their job that the CEO has about hs or her job and but to do that job and not someone else's right that there's another training element that high level leaders just need to be trained that this, you are not operating the organization. We are governing the organization. And that's a big difference. You're taking your leadership.  Your directive often becomes a trustee, which is a different role. [00:28:03] Tommy Thomas: You mentioned the CLA for people who might be members. There are people that might be Christian organizations. What about your standard, other kind of nonprofit? Where might they get this kind of training? Are there seminars or Policy Governance training that one could attend or sign up for? [00:28:23] Carl LaBarbera: Absolutely. I belong to the Govern for Impact Association.  They have an annual conference, and they have sessions throughout the year as well. And it's been a great place for me to really learn the process. It's a complex process and it should be.  They have classes, they have seminars, they have this conference once a year. There is training, future board members and chairmen, chair, chairwomen, chairpersons to do this work. And the interesting thing, this organization, started originally with the Carvers and those who are Carver-trained and but now has become this international organization, literally. And actually has been participating in in Europe to develop ISO standards. I was in the aerospace industry, everything we did, especially for government and military work had to be done to international standards or Boeing standards or Lockheed's or McDonnell Douglas standards. So now Policy Governance has been embedded in an ISO standard for governance, what we're hoping to see is that will trickle down and that will become expected of boards to adhere to a set of, international best standards. Policy Governance will be included, and will be a framework for that. [00:29:49] Tommy Thomas: What advice are you giving somebody who comes to you and said they've been approached by an organization to serve on their board? What questions are you telling them to ask? [00:30:00] Carl LaBarbera: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I guess I would warn them or ask them. They should know everything about that organization and how it operates that they can. And one of those things would be to see if there is Policy Governance in place. Just obviously, if you want to read the bylaws, to read those governing documents that will affect their role because the worst thing that can happen is someone get on a board and have to spend so much time and tedium and making decisions that are management decisions. When I first began serving with our church, there was an old process developed over many years where you had elders who each one represented an area of ministry in the church, and then they would come together as an elder board as a governing board. And then each 1 would be reporting out from their area of ministry which could be a dozen different ministries. And so, you have 20 people on a board and you are spending hours and hours listening and thinking about things that you really shouldn't be thinking about. That is not your job. And so, I definitely would not want to be a part of that board. And I would advise others not to be a part of that board. If the organization is not clear about that. The board's role in their job. I wouldn't advise being a part of that board. [00:31:34] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes on our website: www.jobfitmatters.com/podcast. Tommy Thomas: If there are topics you'd like for me to explore my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com.  Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing. Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising. Tommy Thomas: If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode. Until then, stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable.   Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Perfect Search – What every board needs to know about hiring their next CEO Christian Leadership Alliance Govern for Impact Robert K. Greenleaf Center for Servant Leadership Ruth Haley Barton World Impact   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn   Listen to Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | Google Podcasts

Contact us and Get more information! Website: http://www.fpcsachurch.org/ Email: firstsouthamboy@optimum.net YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFuGhQ2f12YA3gHe0oy8Qfw Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/FPCSAMBOY   Join us for Worship! Sundays at 10:30am First Presbyterian Church of South Amboy 150 N Broadway, South Amboy NJ 08879

Only two souls managed to escape the deadly clutches of the Briley brothers, this time Linwood and Anthony, to tell their tale: William and Virginia Bucher. Now, both have passed on, their stories echoing in the grave. Unless the shadows of the past decide to part and reveal hitherto unknown survivors or witnesses, the blood-curdling events that transpired on the night of the 12th of March, 1979, stand as the gruesome overture to a seven-month symphony of horror. The modus operandi of these ruthless killers was as cold as it was random. Linwood, the elder of the two, sauntered up to the quaint, tightly packed home of the Buchers, nestled in the heart of Lafayette Avenue, and rapped his knuckles against the front door in a parody of normalcy. William Bucher, in a later account, revealed his initial assumption that it was the paperboy, come to collect his due, which rendered him unguarded enough to open the door. As the portal swung open, he found himself staring not at the familiar face of the paperboy, but at the strange and unsettling countenance of a complete unknown.Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theserialkillerpodcastWebsite: https://www.theserialkillerpodcast.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/theskpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialkillerpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/serialkillerpodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/the-serial-killer-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

WEDNESDAY HR 2 RRR Trivia - 55 Years ago today, Disney released a movie about a car. What was the name of the movie? Linwood checking in. Cars/Trucks/Ev's City of Winter Park voting on gas powered leaf blowers.

We don't want to become another America - that's the message the Linwood Islamic Centre's Imam will share with the prime minister today in a private meeting today ahead of the fifth anniversary of the March 15th terror attacks.  Fifty-one men, women, and children were murdered with high-powered firearms at Masjid An Nur and the Linwood Islamic Centre in 2019.  The Labour-led government announced a ban on military-style semi-automatics and assault rifles less than a week later.  The National-led coalition is now re-writing those laws to allow competitive sports shooters access to semi-automatics.  Linwood Islamic Centre Imam Lateef Alabi, and secretary Said Mostafa spoke to Corin Dann

Grand tidings! Join me as we venture into the fifth and final element of the Sacred Circle--and complete the show's Elements Series. Ergo, how does Spirit live among and connect us to each other? What spirits live within our world--and beyond? Grab your favorite bottle of red and settle in for the completion of the circle casting. Instagram: @beyondtheseaspodcastEMAIL ME: beyondtheseaspodcast@gmail.comTarot Collaboration: @thefeatherwitchnycWeekly Book: The Eagle and the RavenPodcast Shoutout: The White Witch Podcast, @thewhitewitchpodcastPodcast website: https://beyondtheseas.buzzsprout.com/More info: https://www.kierandanaan.com/beyond-the-seasSubscribe for all the mythological and folkloric episodes, posted weekly.Sources-Frederickson, Linwood. “Angels and Demons.” Encyclopedia Britannica, 2 January 2024. www.britannica.com/topic/angel-religion/Celestial-and-noncelestial-forms-relationships-of-beliefs-in-angels-and-demons-to-views-of-the-cosmos. Accessed 1 March 2024. -McCoy, Daniel. “Ancestors.” Norse Mythology. norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/ancestors. Accessed 1 March 2024. -Oban. “The Great Spirit Ancestors.” Planet Oz Kids. https://www.planetozkids.com/oban/the-great-spirit-ancestors.htm. Accessed 1 March 2024. Music"Endless Horizons" by Ian Henderson"Intimacy" by Ben Winwood"Walking in Forests" by Ben Winwood"Irish Mountains" by Ben Winwood"It'll Be Alright" by Ben Winwood"Love2016" by Ben WinwoodCheers,Kieran

In the final part of the series, Miyanovich and Johnson discuss: how it's illiberal to automatically bend the knee to American symbols, the Protect Illinois Communities Act, the realities of gun control, caring about kids, and the realities of the Clinton era Assault Weapons Ban with the Koper DOJ studies.

In Part 1 of this series, Miyanovich and Johnson discuss: Linwood getting into guns through self-defense, bringing nuance to issues, the effects of the pandemic and George Floyd protests on black gun ownership, starting off as an anti-gunner, inner-city violence, stereotypes, misinformation, the black community and the foundational symbols of America, and what Miyanovich calls "Fernfervinism".

Case story:Randy Leach, a 17-year-old from Linwood, Kansas, vanished in the early hours of April 16, 1988, after attending a classmate's high school graduation party. Last seen at the event, where approximately 70 to 150 guests were present, Randy's disappearance remains unsolved despite ongoing investigations by the Kansas Bureau of Investigation and the Leavenworth County Sheriff's Office. Witnesses reported that Randy was intoxicated during the party, some witness account are of Randy potentially being drugged during the party. In such a state, it's uncertain how Randy Leach would have left the party in his own car. We discussed the main theories about what could have happened Go fund me page - https://www.gofundme.com/f/v9pnsr-in-search-of-randy-leachFurther information sources: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064920605024https://maphub.net/FindRandy/Rahttps://www.facebook.com/groups/229958902081885/permalink/481336876944085/Music:oprahme Background Music by CO.AG MusicContact us at: weeknightmysteries@gmail.comInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/weeknightmysteriesTikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@weeknightmysteries

We talk about the new Mama Zu record, Linwood's time in Those Darlins and play Mama Zu's new intergalactic hit single "Lip".

What if a young athlete suddenly found his passion and purpose in the political arena? Meet our special guest for this episode, Josh Binda, an elected official from Linwood, Washington, who dared to enter politics at the tender age of 21 and succeeded. Josh takes us through his life's journey, from the football field to a city council member's chair, revealing how he used his youthful vigour to effect revolutionary changes in his community.Strap on as we explore an amusing controversy tied to Josh's persona - a shirtless photo in the public domain. While this stirred a fun conversation about attractive politicians, it serves as a reminder of how appearances can be deceptive. Turning the humour into a serious discussion, we converse about the importance of authentic representation in politics. This narrative echoes in Josh's involvement in youth activism, as he elucidates on how he overcame obstacles, leveraging his youth to inspire his peers and affect change.Finally, we shift the spotlight to an inspiring self-help book "Breaking Barriers" by Josh Binda Packed with practical insights, this work is a battlecry for those bent on breaking free from mediocrity. And for those wondering how to make a difference in their communities without running for office, we glean wisdom from our guest. Wrapping up the episode, we emphasize the importance of finding your passion and purpose, using your voice and platform to make a difference, and not being deterred by fear or doubt. After all, true power resides with the people, and everyone can be a leader in their unique way.Support the showSupport the show:https://www.buzzsprout.com/2003879/supportFollow our show's hosts on Twitter: twitter.com/@CoolTXchicktwitter.com/@Caroldedwinetwitter.com/blackknight10ktwitter.com/@pardonpodSubscribe to Ty's substack:https://theworldasiseeit.substack.com/Find Ty's book here:https://www.amazon.com/CONSEQUENCE-CHOICE-Decision-Shapes-Destiny/dp/1693703866Support Our Sponsor: Sheets & GigglesEucalyptus Sheets (Recommended):Sleep Mask (I use this every night)Eucalyptus ComfortorAdjustable Eukalyptus Pillow

"It feels good to be grateful. Gratitude opens your heart and unleashes a power of love.” - Mark Hulet  As we head more into the holidays, this season helps us become more aware of the level of gratitude in our lives. Join Dr. Michelle Robin as she invites Mark Hulet from the YMCA of Greater Kansas City to share some lessons and insights he's learned over the course of this year. He'll speak about what it means to reflect and forgive, and why sometimes we can get stuck in a place with relationships by thinking about what should be next – when really it's important to first pause and find gratitude in those relationships. As he prepares to start his 24th year at the YMCA, he'll also explain the impact their nonprofit has had on families' lives in Kansas City this year – and why they couldn't do what they do in the community without their volunteers.  About Today's Guest:  In July 2023, Mark Hulet became the 11th chief executive officer to lead the YMCA of Greater Kansas City since it was founded in 1860. Hulet has served as interim president and CEO from January 1, 2023. Hulet's background includes all aspects of YMCA leadership, philanthropy, operations, and support. He began his YMCA of Greater Kansas City career in 2000 as an executive director of a Y membership center, and has held various positions including chief operating officer, senior vice president of capital assets and risk, and vice president of membership. As interim president and CEO, Hulet successfully launched the current strategic plan to address organizational culture, operational excellence and sustainability as the Y recovers from the pandemic. During the pandemic, Hulet led the reopening of Y centers and programs as chief operating officer, including mobilization of resources and programs to provide childcare for essential workers, combat social isolation for older adults and support vaccine distribution throughout greater Kansas City. Over the years, Hulet has provided operations and philanthropic leadership and established innovative partnerships. Projects have included partnerships for the Y to operate community centers in Platte County and North Kansas City and bringing the University Health primary care clinic to the Linwood YMCA/James B. Nutter, Sr. Community Center. In addition, he led capital projects including the construction of the new Kirk Family YMCA in downtown Kansas City, MO, and the renovations of the Linwood and Atchison Y's as part of the largest capital campaign in the Y's history. A longtime Kansas City resident, Mark has two sons, Keagan and Killian, and three grandchildren, Gracelynn, Raiden, and Ruari.  Mentioned in the Episode:  YMCA of Greater Kansas City  YMCA – find a location around the U.S.  Your Wellness Connection  Volunteer at the YMCA of Greater Kansas City 

On this week's episode, Writer Adam Pava (Boxtrolls, Lego Movie, Glenn Martin DDS and many many more) talks about his writing career, and why sometimes when he writes features, he doesn't always get credited. Tune in for much more!Show NotesAdam Pava on Twitter: https://twitter.com/adampava?lang=enAdam Pava on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1106082/Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutogenerated TranscriptAdam Pava:I think that's the main thing is have samples that show exactly what your voice is and exactly what makes you different than everybody else, and what you can bring to the table that nobody else can. I think that's the first thing, but to get those open writing assignments, I think it's just a cool errand to even try because they're just so risk averse to hire anybody that hasn't done it before. I think the better shot that you have is to make smaller things and then they'll seen you've done it. You're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jenman.Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back for another episode. I may be retitling the name of my podcast. So I'm, I'm going to be vague for everyone, but I'm here with my next guest, Adam Pava, who's a very talented writer I worked with many years ago on show called Glen Martin, d d s, and he works. We'll talk. I'll let you speak in a second. Pava, you just relax. I'm going to bring you on with a proper introduction because you've worked a lot, lot of features, a lot of animation. So I'm going to run through some of your many credits. Some of them are credited and some of them just are not so credited. We're going to talk about that even though you've done the work. So I think you started early on on shows like Clone High, Johnny Bravo, I'm going to skip around.You worked with us on Glen Martin d d s, but then you've also done Monsters versus Aliens Dragons. I'm going to jump around, but wait, hold on. I'm skipping a lot of your credits, Pavo, a lot of the box trolls you've done, you work a lot with Lord and Miller on all their stuff, all the Lego movies, goblins. You have something in the works with Leica, which is one of the big animation studios which you're attached to direct as well, and then also some other shows. Let's mention My Little Pony dreamland. What else should we talk about? A bunch of the label, it's hard to talk about the credits because so many of 'em are things that are either in production or development that they're not supposed to talk about yet, or they're things that I was uncredited on. And so it's a weird thing.And why are you uncredited? How does that work? It's super different from TV and movies. So back when I worked in tv, I did tv. I mean, back when we worked together it was like what, 10, 15 years ago? Something like that. But I did TV for the first decade of my career and everything you work on, you're credited, even if you're just like the staff writer in the corner who says three words and doesn't make, get a joke into the script. You're one of the credited writers. Movies are a different situation. It's like one of these dirty secrets of Hollywood where they always want to credit one writer or a team of writers. Sometimes it'll be two writers that get the credit if both of 'em did a huge chunk of the work. But the thing that usually happens these days on big studio movies anyway is they will go through three or four writers over the course of the years and years of it being in development and all those writers who worked on it before the final writer or sometimes just the first writer and the last writer will get credit and all the ones in the middle won't get credit.Or it's like the W G A has these arbitration rules where it's like, unless you did a certain percentage of the final shooting script, you're not going to get credit at all. So even though the guy who brings catering gets credit and every person on, so will you arbitrate for credit or do you go into these projects knowing that you're not going to get credit? Usually I go in knowing that I'm not going to get credit or I will. Sometimes there'll be a situation. I did about a year's worth of work on the Lego movie, the first Lego movie, and Phil and Chris, Phil Lauren and Chris Miller who directed that and wrote the first draft of the script and the final draft of the script. They're buddies of mine and so I'm not going to arbitrate against 'em and I want them to hire me in the future and I love them and they really wanted, they're written and directed by title, and so of course I'm not going to arbitrate in that sort of situation.And also to be fair, I don't think I would win that arbitration because they wrote the first draft and it was already the idea and it was brilliant and it came out of their minds and it was awesome. And then they had me do four or five drafts in the middle of there where I was just addressing all the studio notes and all the notes from the Lego Corporation and all the notes from Lucasville and all that kind of stuff while they're off shooting 21 Jump Street and then they come back. So you were just doing it to move it closer and then they knew they were, yeah, exactly. They knew they were coming back onto it and they were going to direct it and they would do another pass. They would do multiple passes once it goes into storyboarding once it's green lit. So I was just trying to get it to the green lit stage, so they had written a draft and then I did a bunch of drafts addressing all these notes and then we got a green lit off of my drafts and then they came back on and they started the storyboard process and directing process.And the story changes so dramatically during that process anyway that the final product is so far removed from the drafts I did anyway, but it was a valuable, my work was needed to get it to that point to where they can jump back onto it. But very little of that final movie is anything that I can take credit for and I wouldn't want to take credit away from them on that. So I do a lot of that kind of work. Did they have other writers that worked on Legos movie as well, or just you? On the first one, it was them and me. There was these two brothers, the Hagerman brothers who had done a very early treatment, but that had set up the original idea for the movie of Allego man sort of becoming alive. So they got a story by credit, and then they definitely always have a stable of writers that they bring in to do punch up work and to just watch the animatic and give notes and stuff like that.So there's a whole bunch of people that are contributing along the way. Funny, they come from tv, so they really run it. They run it as if they're still on TV a hundred percent. They have their writers. And so I've gotten to work on a lot of their projects as one of their staff writer type people basically is the idea. So it's all uncredited work, but it's great work. They're such great guys and you're working on really cool things every time. And so now there's a new, in the last few years, the W G A started this new thing called additional literary Material credit. And so if Lego were to have come out now, I think I would've gotten that credit on it, but at the time, that didn't exist, so I got a special thanks. And how did you, oh, really? Okay. And how did you meet these guys?They gave me my first ever job before I knew you. I mean, I had written a movie script that was an animated movie. This is like 99 or 2000. I was just out of grad. I wrote it while I was in grad school. And Wait, hold on. I didn't even know you went to grad school. Did you study screenwriting in grad school? Yeah, I went to U S C screenwriting. Oh, I did not. I hide it from you. Why do you hide it? For me? I don't know. It's a weird thing where I feel like a, it's like I was in this weird secondary program that wasn't part of the film school. It was the master's of professional writing and screenwriting. And so people would get confused and I didn't want to lead them on, but also I just feel like it got me to a place and then I was like, I didn't want be part of a good old boys club where people are just hiring U S C people or whatever.That's the whole point of going to USC for Yeah, people ask me, should I go to film school, get an M F A, and my standard answer is, no one will ever ask for your degree. No one caress about your degree. The only thing they care about is can you put the words on the page that are good a hundred? But why did you, but what it did offer me, and I'll get back to how I met Phil and Chris in a little bit, but this is a good side conversation. It gave me an opportunity to do some internships on a couple of TV shows. And that was super, super valuable. So when I was at U SS C, it was 99 and 2000, and so I interned my first year on a little show called Friends, which was still on the air. I was on the air at the time.I was just the stage intern. So I was moving the chairs around during the rehearsals and fetching coffees and getting frozen yogurt for cast members or whatever, just shitting my pants, trying to be a normal human being around all these superstars and was not, I wouldn't say it was the best experience of my life. It was definitely one of those things where I was like, everybody was super intimidating and everybody was really busy and the cast were in the middle of a renegotiation, so they're all showing up late. It just felt like everyone was angry the whole time. And I was like, dunno if I want to work in tv. But there was one writer's assistant who was just like, yeah, because on the stage you're a writer, you need to be in a writer's room, you should be an intern in a writer's room.And I was like, oh. And then so I was able to get an internship on Malcolm In the Middle, which had just sold, it was in his first year, so it was a summer show. So I jumped onto that in the summer and was able to do that. And then in that writer's room, I was like, oh, these are my people. These are actual, wait, you were an intern. They let you sit in the writer's room one. It was like for doing all, getting the lunches and making the coffee and all that stuff. Linwood was nice enough to let me just observe in the room for one day a week just to, well, if I didn't have other stuff I needed to get done. So it was super nice as long as I didn't pitch or say anything and I was just, I never would.But it was cool to, that experience showed me that show was so well written and it was so tight and those writers were all geniuses or I thought they were all geniuses. And then I'd go in the room first, I would read the scripts and I would think, oh my God, I'd never be able to do this. And then I got in the room and I'm like, oh no, they're just working really, really hard and banging their head against the wall until they come up with a perfect joke. And then by the time it's done, it seems like it's genius. But it all was just really hard work, really long hours to get to that place. So that taught me like, oh, maybe I can be one of those people. If I'm just one cog in this room, I could do that. And so that gave sort of the confidence to do that.So I had done those. Getting back, I can loop back into the Phil and Chris thing now because this actually connects really well. I had done those internships. I graduated U Ss C and I had this script that I'd written as my final project or whatever, and it was an animated movie, and I thought you could just sell an animated movie, but I didn't know, they didn't teach me this in grad school that at the time they developed 'em all. It was like only Disney and Dreamworks were doing 'em at the time. This is 2000. And they just hire directors and sort of were an artist in-house to sort of create the stories or back then that's how they would do it. And so I sent it to some agents and the response was always like, Hey, you're a really funny writer. This is really good.I can't sell this. I don't know anybody that buys animated movies, but you should write a live action movie if you can write it as good as this. And so I wrote another movie that was Live Action, but it was silly. It seemed like it might as well have been an, I go back and read it now and I'm like, it's basically an animated movie, but it didn't say it was animated, it was live action human beings. And I submitted it to a small boutique agency at the time called Broder. I don't know if you remember them, Broder Crow, we were there. Yeah. And so Matt Rice was an agent there at the time, and he had on his desk, his assistant was Bill Zody. I dunno if you know him, he's a big name agent now, but he was an assistant at the time.He read that script that I wrote and was like, oh, you know who this reminds me of these other clients that Matt has, Phil and Chris. And so he passed it on to those guys and they were looking for a writer's assistant on Clone High because they had just sold their first TV show. They were a young hotshot writers that were just deal. And so I met with Phil and Chris, and they hired me as the writer's assistant on Clone High, which was like, they were the same age as me. They were just like, we don't know what we're doing. But they're like, you've been in a writer's room, you've been knock on the middle and I friends and you, I didn't know anything. I didn't know what I was doing at all, but it said on my resume that I had had these experiences.So they thought I would be a good writer's assistant for that reason. But they were the coolest dudes from the very beginning. They were just like, you're the writer's assistant, but also you should pitch in the room. You should act like you're another writer. We have a really small staff, we have seven writers, and you're going to get episode eight. I mean, it was crazy. They were just like, they gave me a lance and that never happens anymore. How did they get an overall deal when they came? Oh, it's the craziest day. So they went to Dartmouth, they made each other at Dartmouth and then they were doing cartoons while they were there studying animation. And one of Phil's, I think it was Phil, I think it was Phil won the Student Academy Award for a student film that he did. And it was written about in the Dartmouth Alumni magazine.And there was a development exec at Disney whose son went to Dartmouth and read that article and was like, Hey, called them in their dorm room. And we're like, if you guys ever go out to la lemme know. We'll set a meeting. And they literally, the day after they graduate just drove to LA and then called 'em up and we're like, we're ready to get hired. And it worked and they got hired, it worked. They got hired just to do Saturday morning stuff, and they did that for a little bit and everything they were doing was too crazy for Saturday morning, but it was like Disney. But then Disney was like, well, you can start developing stuff for adult Disney or for primetime stuff. And so they came up with the idea for Clone High, and it originally sold to Fox as a pilot to be after the Simpsons or whatever, but then it didn't get picked up and then M T V picked it up and then they had a show.So it's crazy what a trajectory their career has. Yeah, I know. And now they're running Hollywood. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. They were good guys to meet right away mean honestly, it was like to become friends with them and just to ride their wake and get some of their sloppy seconds and some of the stuff that they don't want to deal with, it's honestly, it was great. Did they call you a lot with stuff like that? Hey, we don't want to do this. It's yours less now than they used to. I mean, there was a point where I was one of their stable guys that they would call. I think they have met a lot of people in the 20 years since then, but early on it was like, I mean, even their first movie was Claudio with a Chance of Meatballs, and they brought me on to help rewrite the third act at one point.And it was just from then on, they would always send me their scripts and just add jokes or to give feedback or whatever, and they've always been like that. And then I've noticed the last maybe six or seven years as they've gotten these huge deals and all their projects are now just these massive things, it's not quite the same relationship where they would just text me or email me and be like, Hey, read this. Now. It's like they have a whole team of people. They have a machine now, but we still are friends. And then things will come up where they'll hire me for things here and there. I wonder, honestly, I don't want to make this differe about them, but it's so interesting. I kind of think, I wonder what it's like to be that busy. It almost feels like, oh my God, I'm too busy.They're so busy. They're the hardest working people I know. It's like people always wonder how this stuff comes out so good. And it's not that, I mean honestly, it's just good because they stay up later than everybody. They never stop tinkering with things. They're never satisfied. They always think the next thing they do is going to ruin their career. And so they run on this fear that propels them that, I mean, they harness it. It's not like it's a secret. They know that this is what makes them great and utilizing all their friends utilizing, they're the kind of people that are the best idea in the room wins. If you could be the PA or the head of the studio and if you have a great idea, they're like, let's try it. And they also try a lot of stuff that doesn't work and they're given the leeway to go down a lot of dead ends and then realize that's not the answer, and then back up and then try it again and try it again and try it again.And that's how a lot of animated movies are done. And so it drives everybody crazy, but also creates amazing product. That's what, because I've interviewed a couple of guys who worked at dreamworks, which John Able who does a lot of the kung movies, and he describes it the same way. I was like, wow, it's so different from writing live. It's so different from writing live action. The whole experience sounds exhausting to me. Do you find it the same? Yeah, I mean when I first started in it, I was like, this is ridiculous. Why don't they just write a script and then shoot the script? And then over the years, I've learned to love the process. I mean, I was frustrated early on when I would realize how much gets thrown out and how much changes and how much. It's just, it's out of the hands of one writer.And I think a lot of it is also just ego thinking that you could do it better than everybody. And then once I embraced, oh no, you have a bunch of really brilliant storyboard artists and you have a bunch of really brilliant character designers and head of story and a director and all these different people who, and layout artists and even the animators themselves, they all add something so vital and valuable to it, and you learn stuff from each of their steps and then you're just given the leeway to be able to keep adjusting and adjusting until you get it right. And that's why animation comes out so much tighter often than live action is just because you've been able to see the movie so many times and keep tweaking and tweaking until you get it right. Now there is a point where sometimes I feel like you can take that too far and then it just becomes like, oh, we had a great version, four drafts to go and now we've lost our way, or we're just spinning our wheels or whatever.See, that's why I get lost sometimes. I've been in shows where you rewrite something to death and then someone says, we should go back to the way it was, and I'm like, what was the way it was? I don't even remember anymore a hundred percent, and I've stopped ever thinking You can do that. I used to think I would hold out hope though they'll realize that the earlier draft was better. They'd never do. It's like everybody forgets it, and then you just have to have the confidence to be like, well, we know we'll come up with something better together that it'll be from the collaborative mind of all of us. And then I think now I've seen actually the last few years, there's a little bit of a tightening of the belt budgetarily, and that leads to faster schedules. And so instead of having seven times that you can throw the story up from beginning to end on the storyboards, like the reels and watch this movie, you can only do it three times or so.That gives you a little bit more of a window of like, okay, we got to get it right in three drafts or whatever, in three storyboard drafts. And who's driving the ship then in animation? Is it not the director in this case, it's Lord Miller, but they're the writers. Well, Lord Miller are often the directors, and so when they're the directors, they're in charge when they're the producers, they're in charge When they're on the Spider Verse movies, for example, they're the writer or Phil writes them and then they hire directors. But Phil and Chris are the producers, but they're sort of like these super directors. They're very unusual. Yeah, it's not, yeah, that's an unusual situation. But other movies somebody do at dreamworks and there's somebody do at Leica Leica, it's like the director and the head of the studio, Travis Knight, who it's his sandbox and it's his money because he's a billionaire that funds the studio.He has the ultimate say, and so the directors are always working with him, but it's always collaborative. It's always like you get in a room. When I'm working at Leica, it's always like me, the director and Travis trying to figure it out, and he's trusted me to be, I feel like he doesn't trust a lot of people. He is kind of closed off in that way, but once you earn his trust, you will be in that room and you'll figure it out together or whatever. But every movie's different, and sometimes I'm on a movie just to help fix it for a little bit, and then I'm just a fix it person that comes in for a little bit. Sometimes I just add jokes. Sometimes I just, there's been movies where it was a mystery animated movie and they're like, can you just rewrite the mystery?I was like, what a weird assignment. But I had three weeks still. But in this case, they're calling you. How are you getting this work? Just reputation, they're calling you out of nowhere? Mostly now it's reputation. I mean, sometimes I'll be submitted to it. I mean, the first time it's always like you have to be submitted. And I mean, I can tell you how I got hired on box rolls. That was a big breakthrough to me. I mean, it was after I'd done, so Lego was obviously just having known and worked with Phil and Chris forever, and then they got hired on Jump Street, and they needed somebody that they trusted to dear the ship for a while while they're gone. And so I was able to do that, and that was a huge big break. It was like, you couldn't ask for that. I just, I'm the luckiest guy in the world.But after that, at Leica, they had a draft of a movie before it was called box Rolls, it was called Here Be Monsters, and it had been in development for years and years and years and gone through a bunch of writers and they hadn't quite figured it out. It was kind of a mess. It was a big sprawling story that had a lot of moving parts to it, and they had heard that on Lego, I was able to harness a lot of the crazy ideas that Phil and Chris had and put it into a structure that made sense. And so they asked me to come in and do the same thing, or before they even did that, I did a punch up. I got hired to do a punch up on that movie, and I knew that it was going to be a huge opportunity to impress them.I really, really wanted to work at Leica because at the time, they had only had Coralline come out and I loved that movie. And then I had seen maybe ParaNorman had come out or it hadn't come out yet, but it was about to, whatever it was, I knew it was a new animation studio doing really unique original stuff, and I got asked to be part of this round table, and it was all these heavy hitter Simpsons writers. It was like J Kogan and Gamo and Pross, all these people that you're like, these are all legends. They've done a million shows and they get hired to do punch up all the time. That's like their bread and butter, right? I'm not so sure anymore, but okay, no, no, but this is in 2011 or whatever.And I was like, I am going to take this script and analyze it and come up with character moments and come up with, I'm not going to be able to compete with those guys with the best joke in the room necessarily. I'll have good jokes to pitch, but I'm going to have like, oh, what if we adjust the character to be more like this? And where those guys were all, not those guys specifically, but the room in general, these were all guys who were maybe reading five pages ahead and then pitching off the top of their head. And I spent a couple of days writing jokes in the margin and ideas in the margin, and I killed in that room. I got a lot of stuff in and to the point where a few months later when they needed a big overhaul, they asked me to come in and do sort of what I had done on Lego, just take this big thing and hone it down into, so it was a rewrite job at the beginning, and then it turned into three years of working with the director in the studio to change that story.We threw everything out and started over basically a couple times over the course of those years end up, but how are you get paid? Are you getting paid on a weekly scale? Because I don't know how that would work. Do you get paid? It starts off with a draft and then it'll be a typical thing like a draft in two rewrites, but you quickly run through those and then they keep needing your work. At least they're not getting free work out of you. They're picking no, then it turns into either a day rate or a weekly rate, and that's where I bought my house.I made so much money on my day rate. They would literally just, Leica would call me and just be like, oh, we're going to record an actor in a few days. Can you just go through all their scenes and write three or four alts for every joke? Just have a bunch of stuff. And I would spend a few days doing that, and then a day rate, you get paid really, really well, that stuff adds up. Or they would be like, we just need one more pass on the third act, or we just need to go through the whole script and remove this character. And so all these little weekly assignments, and then you're just like, that was very lucrative doing it that way.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not going to spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Adam Pava:You usually, because done so much animation and it sounds like you always set out to do animation, is that I did set out to do it, and then I didn't set out to only do it. I thought I could do both, but you kind of get pigeonholed a little bit. It's hard. I've gotten hired to write a few live action movies, but there were always a live action movie that had an animation element to it. It could be a hybrid movie or be a family movie that they think, oh, because you've done family work, you can do this. But nobody would ever hire me to just do a horror movie or whatever. And I don't know if I'd be the right guy for that either. I think my sensibility tends to be more animation based, but also, I think movies are such a different thing than TV where there's like, they're so expensive.If you're spending $80 million or whatever, you want to hire somebody that's done it before. So it's really, really hard for the studio bosses or even the lower level executives to fight to hire you if you've never done that kind of thing before. And so you get, it's not pigeonholed. I love doing it and I love the work, but it's also, I get why I get hired for certain things and not for other things. But also I feel super lucky because animation is one of the only parts or the only genres of film that has not shrunk over the years. Movies in general, they've stopped making live action comedies almost completely, except for stuff on streamers. They don't make rom-coms anymore. They barely make action comedies. It's like they make superhero movies and Star Wars movies, but then animation movies are evergreen. And so I feel really lucky that I sort of fell into this area that there is still work to be had.So yeah, I mean, you really have put together a really pretty impressive career. And I know not all your credits, not all your work is credited, so what I mean? Yeah, well, it's either uncredited or there's so many projects that died Vine. So it's like you read my, I said you that list of credits and it's like I'm looking at it over earlier today. Oh, it's just a list of debt projects, but that's expected. When you go into it, you go, okay, they're not all going to go. That's expected. It's all right. I was looking at my, I was organizing my, it's a strike, so I have time to do these things, organizing my folders on my computer and putting everything in, and I had over 150 folders of each. One is its own project, and not all of those are work that I've done.Some of them are like, I got sent this thing to pitch on, and then I had one meeting and it went away. And some of 'em I did a few weeks on, or some of 'em I just did day work on, but 150 projects over the years. Some of 'em I'm on for a year or two or three years. So it's insane. And so the hit ratio is super low of, I got really lucky when I transitioned out of TV and went into movies. It was like the first two things. Well, I sold a thing to Dreamworks that didn't get made, but then right after that, it was Lego and box trolls. They both came out in 2014, and I worked on both of 'em, and I was like, oh, this is going to be easy. You work on a movie and then it comes out and then it's cut to 10 years later and it's like nothing else is my name on it has come out.I've worked steadily. I've worked really well. I've been very happy. But it's definitely, it's a different thing than TV where you're just working and getting credited all the time. Well, yeah, but it also sounds like, I don't know, it sounds like to me, maybe I'm wrong. It sounds like you don't need to hustle as much doing what you do. No, I feel like it's the opposite because on TV you can get on a show and you're running for years, but on a movie you always know what's going to add, but they're coming to you. People are coming to you with offers, in other words. Oh yeah, sometimes. I mean, yes, the ones that end up happening, that's true. But there's so many that I'm just on a list at the studio, but I'm in a bake off with six other writers and I don't get it.So you put a lot of work so people don't know what to bake off is. So this is when you have to pitch to get the job and you have to put in several weeks of work. That's the worst. That's just the worst. And that's the majority of my life. Oh, is it? That's like, yeah. Yeah. So there's definitely, I mean, between Phil and Chris and Laika, I have, and a little bit of Dreamworks now. I'm doing my third movie for them right now. So that's pretty good over 10 years, three movies. But other than those places, it's always like you're getting sent stuff, but that doesn't mean they want you. It just means they want to hear a bunch of takes, and so you have to try to fight for the job if you really want it. Or I used to spend months or maybe eight months coming up with the take and having every detail worked out.And then I realized over time, they don't actually want that. They want a big idea and some themes and some ideas of what the set pieces are, and they want to know that you, I mean, honestly, it's, I don't even recommend that young writers go out for them because you're not going to get it anyway, because they're always going to go with somebody that has done it before. Especially, I mean, not always, if you might be the rare exception, but so much. Well, then what do you recommend to young writers to do? Dude, I don't know. I mean, I think you have to write great samples. I mean, I think that's the main thing is have samples that show exactly what your voice is and exactly what makes you different than everybody else, and what you can bring to the table that nobody else can.I think that's the first thing. But to get those open writing assignments, I think it's just a fool's errand to even try, because they're just so risk averse to hire anybody that hasn't done it before. I think the better shot that you have is to make smaller things, and then they'll see you've done, it's not even try to get these big studio things, get a small indie thing if you can, or make your own thing if you can, or just try to work your way up in a smaller way. I mean, all the big name directors out there all started on small indie movies. And I think that's got to be the same for writers now too. So many fewer movies. Is there anything that you're doing on the side just for the love of it that you're creating for yourself? Or is it, I haven't, in the last few years, I haven't.I've just been busy with work, but during the pandemic, I had plenty of time. Nobody was buying movies, and I am wrapped up on something and I had an idea that I thought was going to be my next big sale, and that it was an idea about a virus that went, it was a comedy thing, but it was this idea where it was sort of based on the idea that Christmas is getting longer and longer every year, where people put up their lights in decorations sooner and sooner, and you start seeing the stuff for sale in October or whatever. And so I was like, oh, it felt like Christmas was a virus that was slowly taking over the world. And I was like, what if it's a zombie movie, but Christmas is the virus? And so it was sort of a Christmas apocalypse thing where Christmas takes over the world and one family didn't get infected and had to fight back.So I was like, this is going to be a big seller. And then I was like, and then Covid hit, and it was like nobody wanted to buy a thing about a virus taking over the world, so I literally spent the pandemic. To answer your question, I wrote it as a novel. Instead, I wrote it as a middle grade novel, a y, a novel. Did you publish it? Not yet. We're trying. So we're out to publishers, and it took a while to figure out literary agents, which are very different world and everything, but the idea is to hopefully sell it as a book and then be able to adapt it as a feature. But yeah, it was so fun to write, and it was so freeing to not be stuck in 110 pages and to, I mean, I already had the whole thing outlined from the pitch when I was going to pitch it, so I knew the structure of it, so I just kept it as the structure of a movie, but I expanded on it and got more into the character's heads and that kind of stuff.But I had such a fun time writing that, and I was just like, man, someday when the work dries up, I am going to look forward to writing novels instead. And oh, yeah. The funny thing is when you describe the literary word going out to publishers, it's not that different from Hollywood. You think It is. It's not. It's the same hell. Oh, absolutely. But you and I haven't had to deal with breaking into Hollywood in a long time. And then in the literary world, they're like, oh, you've written movies. We don't care. We don't care at all. So it's starting over. And U T A tried to help a little bit, but they're like, we don't really know what to do. And then, so it's, I've been, my manager has been introducing me to editors and stuff, literary editors, and they've been really receptive, and it's been good trying to find the right one and the person I jive with. But it's very much like, oh, you're starting from scratch all over again. And for less money, no money. I mean, literally, I don't know how you would make a living off of this. I mean, I think we're spoiled a little bit, but what was the money they were telling you? Can you say, I don't want to say you don't, but it was basically about, it was less than a 10th that I would get paid on a movie.It was about my weekly rate. So I was telling you, I do weekly jobs on movies, and it's like if I do a weekly on a studio movie or I could sell a novel, or you could work five years on a novel, and I'm like, oh, this is not a way to support a family, but it was really fun. Someday when I'm just doing it for fun, I would love to do it. Wow, how interesting. Wow. So your best advice, because you're not an animator, you're not even an artist, are you? No, I don't draw or anything. I just love animation. I just always loved animation. So I don't know. I think when I was in seventh grade when the Simpsons started, and that blew my mind, and I was like, I remember telling my dad, I think I want to write on this. It was the first time I recognized, oh, people are writing these jokes. It was very, I think, more self-aware than most comedy was. And I was in junior high and I was just like, I want to be a writer on a show like this. I never was a writer on that show, but a bunch of other stuff.Now, as far as directing, because I know you're attached to possibly direct this project, where does your confidence come from that to direct? I mean, I don't know if I have confidence in it. I mean, I would want to co-direct it. In animation, you often get paired with another, if you're a writer, you'd get paired with an experienced animation director who comes from the visual side. So either an animator or a store wear artist or visual development artist. And I just feel like some of the projects I've been doing, you sort of act as more than just a writer anyway. You're sort of meeting with the creative heads all the time, making these big decisions that affect the projects. And at a certain point, I'm like, well, if I write something, that project that I, that's at life that I was attached to, it probably won't even happen at this point.It's been a few years, and it's kind of sitting there waiting for Travis to decide if he wants to make it. But it was a personal project to me, and it was like this would be the one that I was like, I would really want to see this all the way through. And I'm sure at that studio at this point, he's, Travis himself who runs the studio, is kind of directing all the latest projects anyway, so I would be co-directing with him. And so he would really be in charge, and I would just be, they're up in Seattle, right? Portland? Yeah, Portland or in Portland, yeah. So do you go up there a lot for Yeah, when I'm on a project, so usually it's like if I'm just writing it before it's green lit, which is most of the time I'll just fly up there for meetings just to get launched or whatever, and then go back up after I turn it in to get notes. But if it's in production on box trolls, and then there's another upcoming one that I did a bunch of production work on, they'll fly me up there to work with the board artists and stuff. And that's a crazy, that place is so nice.It's like a wonderland. I mean, it's like this giant warehouse downstairs that they have all the stages and they're all covered with black velvet rope, I mean black velvet curtains. So to keep all the light out and everything. And that's where they're moving all the puppets and everything, the stop motion. And then upstairs it's like the offices, and it just feels like a corporate office building with cubicles and stuff. It's very weird. But you go downstairs and it's like there's people animating, there's this huge warehouse where they're building all the props and they're like armature section where they're adding all the skeletal armature to the You never went with us to, because Kapa was like that in a cup of coffee in Toronto when we did Glen Martin. Yeah, it was amazing though. Similar. But Kapa is doing it on a budget, and these guys are spending so much money, it's not a viable way to make money to make these animated stop motion animated movies.They don't do it to make money. He does it. He loves it. Oh, really? Oh my gosh. Yeah, because Travis Knight is the son of Phil Knight who've gone to Nike, so he's got sort of a lot of money, and it's his hobby shoe money. He's got shoe money, but he is a brilliant animator. He is a super smart, interesting dude who wants to make things that are different than anybody else. And so it's an amazing place to work because nowhere else do you ever have the conversation of like, oh, we could do this if we wanted to do it, where more people would see it, or we could do it this way, which is cool and we want to do this. It's fun and weird.Not that he doesn't care about an audience, he does care about an audience, but it's not most important to him is making something that's awesome to him for the art. And so it's a very different way of looking at things. But I've been in situations there where it's like we're doing upstairs, doing a rewrite with me and the director changing the whole third act or whatever, and then I go downstairs and just tour the stages and the workshops, and I'll meet a puppeteer who's like building this giant puppet who's telling me this is the biggest puppet that's ever been created in Stop motion, and here's the 17 different places where I can articulate it. And I'm just thinking like, dude, we cut that yesterday upstairs. Oh no. And he's been working on it for a month. Oh, no. But I can't say anything. I'm just sort of like, oh, yeah, that's awesome.It's so great. You're doing great work. Anyway, I'm going to get back upstairs. That's so heartbreaking. But they burn through so much money just doing it all by hand. It's so crazy. But it's so beautiful, so I love it. And so you were literally upstairs, they gave you a small office and you just start typing? Yeah, that's literally, I mean, usually when I'm there, it's like they just put me in some random cubicle that nobody else is using or it's not a cubicle, a little office that is or whatever, somebody office. And you'll stay there for a few days or a few weeks or what? Yeah, exactly. Depending on how much they need me. So it either be a few days or a few weeks. And then on box rolls, I was up there. I would be up there for a week, relining some stuff, and then I'd come back home for two weeks and write those pages up.And I mean, I'd be writing in the evenings after the meetings and stuff too, while I was up there. But when we are rewriting, it's a train that's moving and it's like the track is you're running on a track and you got to keep pressure. What did you think of staying there in Portland? Did you like it? I did it. It's hard because my family's here and life is here, but if that movie had gone that I was attached to Coder Act, we were planning on moving there for that for three or four years. That's how it would take. Interesting. Would you have sold your house here or just rented it out? I'd have rented it out, I think. Interesting. Yeah, you, it was like we were having all these conversations, and then it's the longer it goes, we're like, that's probably not going to happen.We don't have to think about this right now. How interesting. That's so key. It really takes that long, man. Oh yeah. They're so long. And then also, it's like there is this weird thing in animation where it's not uncommon for a movie to go through two or three directors over the course of its many years in production. So it's like, why? I know. Just because they're beasts. And sometimes in the same way that you're changing the story so many times over the years, sometimes you make such a drastic change that it's no longer the vision of that director, and it's just not a right fit anymore. And I've seen that happen on a lot of movies that I've been on. I mean, Boxtrolls didn't end up with the same two directors that it started with. One of the two stayed on it, but the other one didn't.Oh, no, this sounds very frustrating to me. It sounds It does. And then other movies up there have gone through different directors, and so I was like, even if I had gotten hired as the director, I was in the back of my head. I always knew this might not last even if I'll do my best and I'll try to make it work. But you haven't even started and you're finding I'm being fired. Yeah, totally. But I mean, it's a weird thing. It's not TV where you're on a show for a year and then hopefully you get the second year if you get one. It's like in movies, they fire and hire different writers all the time, and so directors less, but writers, it really is pretty common. I've been on both sides of it where it's like, I used to take it really harder, fired off a movie.You're like, oh my God, did they not like the draft? I did. And usually it's like, no, we liked it, but now there's a director on it and they want to take a different direction. Or Oh, the director has a friend that they want to work with that they work with as a writer. Or other times I've been that guy that a director has brought on to rewrite somebody else, and I always try to be super nice about it. Now that I've seen both sides of it, I always try to reach out to the previous writer and be like, Hey, I just want you to know it's in good hands. Or sometimes if I'm the one that's fired, I reach out, be like, Hey, if you want to know where the skeletons are buried, happy to get in lunch with you. Just to be like, here's the pitfalls to look out for.This is where people don't realize that people on the outside just don't realize what it's actually like when you're the writer. You're a successful working writer. And I think they have a very different vision of the reality of a hundred percent. I didn't know the job was, I thought the job was going to be writing the whole time. Most of the job is it's playing politics with the studio and the executives and the director and Well, what do you mean politics, getting navigating the notes? What do you mean? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like the notes, but also the personalities. It's like a lot of the job I feel like is to go in and to make everybody feel comfortable with where you're taking it. Because you walk into a room and sometimes you could feel like, oh, the director thinks they're making a very different movie than the head of development thinks.Then that's different than what the producer thinks. And that's different than what the head of the studio thinks. It's like I've been in a room where it's like Jeffrey Katzenberg is just like, guys, guys, guys, you're all thinking about this all wrong. And you just have to be like, okay, how can I find solutions that makes everybody happy, that make everybody happy? And that's a huge part of the job. I mean, honestly, when I did the Lego rewriting with Phil and Chris, that's what the whole job was, was just like, how do I make Warner Brothers who didn't know what they had? They thought it was a toy commercial. They were very skeptical of the whole thing, Phil and Chris, who wanted to make some beautiful art. And it was cool with cool ideas. And Lego Corporation who wanted to make a toy commercial and Lucasfilm who didn't want their characters to be in it, and DC who didn't know whether they should be or not.And you're just like, how do I get in a room? And and usually if you come up with a great gag or great joke that articulates the, that illuminates the tone of the thing. So they all go, oh, okay. That's the thing. So the round of notes, like you're saying, oh, it's incredible, but for everybody and everyone's got conflicting. I don't even know walking into that job, and all I care about is I don't want my friends, Phil and Chris to think I fucked up their movie because they're trusting me just so I keep it moving. But I would think even for them, it's like, how do I get this movie made when I have so many competing notes and to their credit account, great, but still that is a hundred percent to their credit, they have a genius ability to, not only are they great writers and great directors, I think more than that, they have this sense of how to make everybody in a room think that the ideas came from them.It's like, yeah, they're great at, they'll go into a room, I think sometimes having some ideas in their pocket, but it feels like the room came up with the ideas together, and then everybody's like, yes, we did it. Pat ourselves on the back. And everybody, the executives' seem happy. But sometimes it actually does come out that, I mean, those brainstorm sessions really do create a new idea, and sometimes it's them trusting the process that that's going to work out. And sometimes I think they literally are like, well, we can go this way or this way, but I know it'll be easier if they think they had the idea. So let's go this way for now. And then later they know it's going to change a thousand times anyway in the storyboards, and then they could figure it out for real later. Because all these see people like that.They're very well paid, but in my opinion, they're earning every penny of this a hundred percent. They're earning every, it's not that easy. This job, I feel like I've gotten better over the years where I've taken my ego out of it. I used to have a much bigger ego, you might remember, but I feel like I can be, now, I can just go in a room and be like, I'm just going to try to help. I'm just going to be like, how could I make everybody feel comfortable? How can I make everybody feel like we're on the right page together and create this thing? I know that it's like the process is going to take years and years, and the relationship is more important than the individual story note or whatever. It's like that's what's going to matter over the long term of this project.It's that we all trust each other and that we can make something great together. And that's more important than fighting for a joke or fighting for a story moment or a take, or even exactly, either. It's about fighting the relationship, and I've said this before, it's about the relationship is the most important thing, and sometimes you have to sacrifice what you think is the best story, the best moment for the greater good of the relationship. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Wow. I feel like this has been eyeopening even for me, and I feel like my eyes are fucking opened. You know what I'm saying?We've done some movie work, but obviously we work mostly in tv, but the movie side, the movie side was never really appealing. I remember because we shared the same agent for our futures, and I remember he gave us a conversation. I was like, I dunno if I want to work in movies again. It's weird. It sounds hard. It's different because in TV you're the boss, right? I mean, when you're the showrunner, you're the boss. Yeah. You've been there for a long time. And in movies, you're never the boss. I mean, I gave up on, I mean, before I worked with you, there was one TV show I ran and I co ran with my friend Tim, and we were the bosses, and I hated it. I did not enjoy it. It was like all the meetings and all the decisions and the budgets and the interpersonal relationships and all that stuff.I was like, I was not good at it back then, and I don't know if I'd be better now, and I just was like, you know what? I just want to be part of a team and I want to be a writer. And it's like in movies, that's what you are. You're just part of this big team in a different way. I mean, I guess when you're a staff writer or coming up through the ranks and tv, you're part of a team too, but you can be like, you're also a much more integral part of the team, the one writer on it at the time. Or in movies, you're like, when you're the writer, you're the writer and they all look to you for that one job. Or if you're on a staff when I'm on a show with you or whatever, you might look to me for one type of, it's very different. I'm a cog in this room.It's never, you never have to be a hundred percent on your A game every day for you can showing it in a little bit coast. Wow. Adam Paval, what an interesting conversation. This is enlightening for me. Very enlightening. Yeah, man. Are you having everybody on from the old days, Brian? Well, I had Alex Berger on a while ago. We talked a little bit about that script that you guys wrote together. Well, there's two things on Glen Martin. You were always pestering me to do a musical. Yeah, I think, I don't know how to write a musical. And you're like, this is why I've work in animated features. I've written three musicals since I, so lemme let you do the movie. I was like, dude, I don't know how to do so go ahead and knock yourself out. That was fun. And then you guys came back with that Christmas episode. I thought you guys both hit it out of the park. I was like, let's shoot it, let's shoot it.I think it took, because that was all second year stuff and it took a little bit of time to figure out tonally what we were doing and then just to get a little crazier. And then, I mean, those episodes were like, yeah, I could be a little bit more myself of writing the weird stuff that I wanted. I mean, the other one I remember fondly is that weird Funshine episode. Was that the musical one or was that, I don't remember. Dude, fun cine was, it was like the planned community in Florida that was basically celebration Florida and they all realized that everybody was on being drugged and were lactating out of their breast and all that. Oh, that's right. Now I remember the guy, there was a scene where there's a pregnant man or something. It was fucking nuts. And I was like, oh, now we're writing the show that I could write.The first year, I think it was a little bit more like I was a little square pa in a round hole where it was like I didn't have a family at the time and it was a family show. It was about a dad and a mom trying to navigate their crazy kids and I was like, I don't know what the fuck. Crazy in that show. It's a shame. We didn't do more seasons. We weren't nuts. It was fun. It was a fun time. For sure. I got some of the puppies right over there, so see, yeah, I got the one you gave me of me that one from the college episode. Oh right, the college episode. That's right. We put you in. You ran the gauntlet I think, didn't you? I think that, yeah, that's exactly right. Funny. Yeah, funny. Adam, Papa, where can people, is there anything want, we can plug people, find you.Are you on social media? Is there anything? I'm not super active. I'm on Twitter. You can find me on Twitter. Adam Papa or Adam or whatever it's called now. X X, I'm on X, but don't really, I'm not super active on it. I don't have anything to plug. Everything's going to come out in four years. Yeah, right. Yeah. Look for Adam Papa in four years when something drops to the movies. That's the process. Dude, thank you again so much for doing this. This was a really interesting conversation. I haven't talked yet, spoken to anybody about this kind of stuff. You are a wealth of information. Alright. Yeah, it's fine. Everyone, thank you so much. Until the next episode drops, which will be next week. Keep writing.Phil Hudson:This has been an episode of Screenwriters Need to Hear this with Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson. If you're interested in learning more about writing, make sure you register for Michael's monthly webinar @michaeljamin.com/webinar. If you found this podcast helpful, consider sharing it with a friend and leaving us a five star review on iTunes. For free screenwriting tips, follow Michael Jamin on social media @MichaelJaminwriter. You can follow Phil Hudson on social media @PhilaHudson. This podcast was produced by Phil Hudson. It was edited by Dallas Crane Music by Ken Joseph. Until next time, keep writing.