The Forget The Funnel Podcast

This is Part 3 of a 3-part series for founders who want to stop being the bottleneck—and start building a system their team can actually use.In this episode, Georgiana walks through the exact 3-step process behind Customer-Led Growth. One that helps teams operate with clarity, confidence, and momentum—without needing the founder to constantly connect the dots.Whether you're drowning in ideas, stuck in feedback loops, or unsure where to focus—this is how to turn customer insight into a repeatable system for growth.Takeaways:The 3-part system behind strategic, customer-led teamsWhy shared KPIs and team rituals beat decks and dashboardsHow to prioritize and embed customer insight into executionKey Moments:00:01:14 | The hidden reason your team's still stuck—even with a solid strategy00:03:07 | The first move every strategic team makes (and what most skip)00:06:05 | Mapping your customer experience the right way (and what to look for)00:09:43 | The KPI trap—and what actually tells you if you're winning00:11:17 | What you learn when your team becomes your own customer00:13:31 | The case for fixing less (and why it leads to more)00:15:49 | Why rituals—not decks—make growth systems stick00:18:46 | What customer-led teams really do differently (and how to start)Links & ResourcesFollow Georgiana on LinkedInForget The Funnel on YouTube Catch the full 3-part series on Customer-Led Growth As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book The AI book companion that comes free with the book Check out Forget the Funnel's website

Most teams are making decisions in chaos—reacting, guessing, hoping something sticks. But not every team operates that way.In this episode, Georgiana lays out what strategic, customer-led teams do differently—and why these teams are still so rare.She walks through the systems, habits, and mindset shifts that help teams make faster, better decisions and stop relying on guesswork. She shows how these teams embed clarity into how they plan, prioritize, and execute—without constant oversight or gut feels.This is Part 2 of a 3-part series. If you missed Part 1, it's all about why even great teams default to guessing. But here, we focus on what better looks like—what strategic, customer-led teams actually do differently.In this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast:The core traits of strategic, high-performing teams.Why strategy isn't about ideas—it's about constraints.What shared language, ownership, and alignment really look like.What happens when your team stops guessing—and starts operating with clarity.Key Moments:00:01:21 | How high-performing teams replace guesswork with insight—and make smarter, faster decisions.00:03:32 | Why customer journey milestones (and their KPIs) are the backbone of clear execution.00:06:22 | Strategic teams don't chase shiny objects—they log ideas and revisit them when it matters.00:08:38 | The secret to cross-functional clarity: one centralized view of the customer experience.00:15:24 | Shared language around terms like "activation" and "adoption" keeps teams aligned and accountable.00:21:00 | Why assigning ownership of key milestones transforms team accountability and momentum.00:28:44 | You don't hire a strategic team—you build one with systems, clarity, and shared constraints.Links & ResourcesFollow Georgiana on LinkedInForget The Funnel on YouTube As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel's website

Your team is smart. You have happy customers (even if not enough). Your product delivers value. So why does execution still feel scattered? Why does your team default to chaos, gut feel, and endless feedback loops?This is Part 1 of a 3-part series for founders who are frustrated with how their teams are making decisions—and feeling like everything is stuck in guessing mode.In this episode, Georgiana breaks down the uncomfortable (but fixable) reason why—even inside talented teams—execution feels like spaghetti at the wall. She explains why this isn't a people problem, it's a system problem, and how a lack of strategic clarity keeps founders stuck in firefighting mode.This episode sets the foundation for the series, naming the real issue behind the frustration—and how Customer-Led Growth can be the first step to solving it.In this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast:Why execution feels chaotic, even inside great teams.The strategic clarity gap that keeps founders as the bottleneck.What founders get wrong about their team's ability to make better decisions.How systems (not heroics) create clarity and confidence for your team.Key Moments:00:03:20 | Why your team feels like they're smart but still guessing—what's missing is a clear system, not more talent or hustle00:06:35 | The uncomfortable truth: It's not a skills gap—it's a strategic clarity gap that keeps founders in firefighting mode00:09:15 | How AI and "vibe marketing" make it even harder for teams to focus, leading to reactive, scattered growth efforts00:12:05 | Red flags your team is stuck in guesswork: You're still the bottleneck, feedback loops never end, and campaigns lack a clear anchor00:15:30 | What happens when you give your team a system: Customer-led growth gives them a shared language and removes the guesswork00:18:45 | The clarity your team needs: Who they're building for, what matters most, and how their work drives customer valueLinks & ResourcesFollow Georgiana on LinkedInForget The Funnel on YouTube As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel's website

Most teams are messing up their opportunity to scale their product into higher-value deals—without even realizing it.They're following someone else's Product-Led Sales playbook. ICPs are fuzzy. Qualification is weak. Sales motions aren't landing.Some teams are stuck in the messy middle: a PLG motion that's working (sort of), but sales is jumping in too early—or not at all. Customers are confused. Deals stall.Others know it's time to evolve beyond pure PLG—but aren't sure how to layer in sales without breaking what's already working.In this episode of The Forget the Funnel Podcast, Georgiana Laudi and April Dunford break down the real meaning of product-led sales, and the common mistakes that keep even experienced teams stuck—like unclear ICPs, poor qualification, and misapplied sales motions. Whether you're adding sales to a PLG motion, or trying to make your sales-led org more product-led, this episode will help you avoid costly missteps and find clarity fast.What you'll learn:Why PLG alone isn't enough to close bigger dealsThe real role of sales in a product-led motion (and how to get it right)How to identify product-qualified accounts and avoid jumping the gunWhat's in the episode:(00:00) What is product-led sales, really?(03:00) Why your users ≠ your buyers—and why that matters(06:00) The shadow IT opportunity most teams miss(09:30) Postman's evolution from PLG to strategic sales(14:00) The biggest misstep: Sales jumping in too early(20:00) What smart outbound looks like today(25:00) Faux freemium and low-risk PLG experiments(30:00) How to know when your product is ready to support salesLinks & ResourcesLenny's newsletter on GTM motions of 30 startups Explore April's workCheck out April's books Follow Georgiana on LinkedInForget The Funnel Podcast Forget The Funnel on YouTube As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel's website

SaaS teams are falling into two extremes right now:AI-powered SaaS teams moving at a breakneck pace—roadmaps shifting weekly, product teams shipping nonstop, and marketing scrambling to keep up (while also getting bombarded by their own shiny objects).More traditional SaaS teams stuck in analysis paralysis—waiting for perfect data, overanalyzing, and second-guessing instead of fixing what's broken.The problem? Both extremes lead to the same outcome: Teams are busy but not making progress, nothing really sticks, and the customer experience suffers.This kind of decision-making chaos isn't new, but with how quickly things are changing in tech because of AI, it's more extreme than ever.In this episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, Georgiana breaks down:Why speed without clarity leads to wasted effortHow teams end up optimizing in silos and breaking the customer experienceWhat first principles actually help teams make better decisions—fasterIf your team is moving too fast, too slow, or just feeling stuck, this one's for you.Key Moments04:58 | Examples of AI-powered SaaS teams shipping nonstop but struggling to make things stick, versus traditional SaaS teams hesitating to act due to analysis paralysis.10:39 | When Moving Fast Doesn't Lead to Progress. Gia breaks down how rapid execution without a strategy leads to wasted effort, misalignment, and confusion across teams.16:40 | The Trap of Overanalyzing and Second-Guessing. A look at how some teams slow themselves down by waiting for perfect data and how indecision can be just as costly as moving too fast.24:54 | The Consequences of Optimizing in Silos. Why teams that focus on individual parts of the customer experience without a broader strategy end up with broken and disjointed experiences.36:57 | How first principles provide clarity when teams are stuck, offering a framework to cut through noise, avoid wasted effort, and focus on what truly matters.Links  & ResourcesHow to Break Free From the ‘Data Rich, Insights Poor' TrapFeatures vs. Benefits: How to Maximize the Impact of Your MessagingWhy Customer-Led KPIs Are Your Growth Engine (Part 1 of 2)Unlocking Retention and Growth: How to Set Customer-led KPIs (Part 2 of 2)As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel's website

Too many SaaS founders and GMT leaders confuse positioning with messaging—and it's holding back their growth. If you've ever struggled with homepage copy, sales messaging, or team alignment, this episode is for you.Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) and April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch) break down why messaging can't work without clear positioning—and how this confusion leads to weak differentiation, internal misalignment, and wasted marketing and product growth efforts.If your SaaS messaging feels scattered or ineffective, your positioning might be the real problem. Listen in to learn how to fix it.Positioning ≠ Messaging – Positioning defines who you compete against, what makes you different, and why customers choose you. Messaging is how you communicate that in different contexts.Why SaaS Teams Get This Wrong – Many founders try to “fix” messaging when the real issue is unclear positioning.The Problem with Guessing – How teams waste time on tactics instead of using customer insights to drive strategy.Why a Messaging Document is Non-Negotiable – April shares why teams without one end up in a game of "broken telephone."The PLG vs. Sales-Led Divide – Gia explains why positioning is different for self-serve SaaS vs. sales-led B2B and how each model should approach it.Why Homepage Teardowns Are Mostly BS – And what actually makes a homepage (or any messaging) effective.00:03:10 – Why Founders Confuse Positioning & Messaging (And Why It's a Problem)00:06:45 – The Core Components of Strong Positioning00:12:00 – The Messaging Mistake That Creates Internal Chaos00:24:30 – How PLG & Sales-Led SaaS Should Approach Positioning Differently00:30:00 – The Problem with Homepage Teardowns & Why Context Matters00:43:20 – How to Stop Guessing & Get Positioning RightApril's books: Obviously Awesome (on positioning) & Sales Pitch (on sales narratives)April's podcast: The Positioning Show with April DunfordForget The Funnel: Book & Consulting – Helping PLG SaaS teams build growth strategies based on customer insights, not guesswork. Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Check out the Forget the Funnel website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

In today's episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, we tackle one of the biggest challenges facing SaaS companies: differentiation. With AI tools and products flooding the market and competition skyrocketing, standing out has never been this hard. But here's what you might not know—your messaging can be your moat.In this episode we'll cover:Why good positioning alone isn't enough—and how powerful, pervasive messaging is needed bring it to lifeThe biggest messaging pitfalls SaaS companies fall into (and how to avoid them)How to craft messaging that resonates and how to leverage it, as your moat, at every stage of your customer journeyReal-world examples of companies that get messaging right (and what you can learn from them)If your product is getting lost in a flood of competitors, this episode is for you.00:03:30 – The market is more crowded than ever: how AI has accelerated competition00:07:10 – Positioning vs. messaging: why positioning alone isn't enough00:12:15 – The most common messaging mistakes SaaS companies make00:17:40 – How to align messaging across the entire customer experience00:22:55 – The role of messaging in onboarding, retention & expansion00:28:20 – Real-world examples of SaaS companies with a strong messaging moat00:34:10 – How to test & refine your messaging to drive conversions Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Check out the Forget the Funnel website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

This episode of The Forget the Funnel Podcast is a must-listen for B2B SaaS founders and teams ready to unlock the power of segmentation. Gia tackles the critical importance of segmentation in driving targeted marketing, better customer experiences, and scalable growth strategies. If your team targets more than one customer segment but struggles to go from data overload to building segmented experiences that actually drive revenue growth, this episode is for you.In this episode, you'll learn:Why segmentation is essential for improving engagement and conversion rates.How understanding customer Jobs-to-be-Done leads to more effective demographic and firmographic segmentation.Why prioritizing multiple segments can be tricky for teams and how to focus your efforts.Actionable steps to iterate and improve your segmentation over time.Packed with practical advice and real-world examples, this episode will leave you with clear strategies available to you to get more from the marketing you're already doing and based on opportunities that you have today. If you have any questions you can connect with Georgiana Laudi (Gia) on LinkedIn. Visit us at forgetthefunnel.com, and don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch on YouTube.Chapters[00:00] Introduction: Why most segmentation strategies fail SaaS teams.[02:15] Gia's take on the biggest misconception about segmentation.[08:45] Deep dive on segmentation strategies from awareness all the way to expansion and upsell.[17:50] The connection between segmentation and customer retention.[22:10] Tailored onboarding: How to get it right for multiple segments.[32:35] The iterative process: How to refine and improve your segmentation over time.LinksPrev Ep: https://youtu.be/q_mKOtt-vg0?si=IEqNXm-Nm3lEBQ0gLinkedIn Article - ICP vs Personas vs Jobs-to-be-Done https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/unlocking-scale-strategic-customer-segmentation-georgiana-laudi-z769f/SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/ Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Check out the Forget the Funnel website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

This episode of The Forget The Funnel Podcast, Gia dives deep on how we've become data-rich but insights-poor and the 4 growth stalls you're likely experiencing as a result. If you're a SaaS founder or product manager bogged down in the weeds of hypothesis-mode and product growth challenges, you'll want to tune in.In this episode, you'll learn:How understanding the full customer journey—not just metrics—can transform your growth strategy (and how Gia's team hit 900% revenue growth).How to uncover what really drives value and revenue with actionable customer research (featuring lessons from real SaaS companies).The secret to aligning product and customer experiences for scalable, predictable growth. Why product marketing is the unsung hero for team alignment and smarter decision-making.How to ditch panic-mode tactics and build long-term, customer-driven strategies that work. This episode is packed with no-nonsense advice and strategies you can start implementing right away. It's time to move from operating in hypothesis-mode to focused, intentional strategy.For further questions, connect with Georgiana on LinkedIn. Visit us at forgetthefunnel.com. Your feedback through ratings, reviews, and subscriptions means the world to us.Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch the full presentation on YouTube.What's in this episode:[02:15] - How a visit to Airbnb's office changed Georgiana's perspective on customer value. [09:40] - The four core reasons why product growth stalls and how to counter them. [14:22] - Strategies for penetrating market saturation and retaining your customers. [21:10] - Balancing the urgency for short-term gains with the necessity for long-term growth.[27:35] - Practical examples demonstrating companies that prioritize customer insights. [32:45] - Understanding and leveraging the unique role of product marketing in driving growth.[38:50] - How to operationalize customer insights into actionable growth strategies.LinksBusiness of Software: https://businessofsoftware.org/talks/georgiana-laudi-data-rich-insight-poor-the-real-reason-your-growth-is-stalled/ Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook Previous Episodes How Customer Blind Spots are Costing Your Team & How to Fix Them on Apple Podcasts Avoiding Common Customer Research Traps (and What Good Research Looks Like) on Apple Podcasts

AI is everywhere. We're using it in our marketing, in our products, in our day-to-day task management. We're all using it in one way or another. But when it comes to learning from and understanding your customers and what drives them to make decisions, proceed with caution.Here's how we see it:To grow revenue, you need to increase conversions. To increase conversions, you need to create better customer experiences. To create better customer experiences, you need to understand the why - that critical context that leads your customers to make the decisions they do. Are AI tools capable of that? Cue the sad trombone. But - that doesn't mean AI has no role to play in customer research. And that is what this latest episode of the pod is all about. This week on Forget the Funnel, Georgiana takes on the 100-ton elephant in the room: whether AI can help us learn more about our customers. Drawing from a recent months-long Custom GPT experiment and conversations with SaaS teams and colleagues, Georgiana shares her take on using it as a research tool.Timestamps02:10 — What is the role of AI in customer research? Georgiana explores this burning topic and gives examples of what AI can and cannot do. 05:00 — Georgiana explains why the results of their Custom GPT research experiment fell flat and why they needed a human to connect the dots.10:16 — Georgiana highlights the importance of foundational customer intelligence and explains why customer knowledge shouldn't be guesswork but insight-driven, especially when integrating AI. 13:51 — She discusses how AI helped her leverage a large set of customer surveys and interpret their results.17:10 — She breaks down the potential risks of using AI for customer research, privacy policy issues, and other potential threats.19:06 — She finishes off by sharing the current stage of experiments and goals for collaborating with AI in customer research.LinksFollow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/Follow Bob Moesta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/bookCheck Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook Previous Episodes How Customer Blind Spots are Costing Your Team & How to Fix Them on Apple Podcasts Avoiding Common Customer Research Traps (and What Good Research Looks Like) on Apple Podcasts

If you're trying to scale your SaaS, but you're stuck tweaking features, following best practices and listening to experts who know nothing about you, your customers or your product… you're doing it wrong. In this no-fluff episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, Gia and Claire cut through the noise and give you the exact steps for growing your product by understanding what your best customers actually need.Forget building for the masses. Forget best practices. Forget guesswork. It's time to focus on the customers who understand the value of your product and turn them into loyal, long-term revenue. Customer-Led Growth is the framework that gets you there—fast.What You'll Learn00:36 — What the heck is Customer-Led Growth? Claire and Gia break down why most SaaS founders misinterpret this concept—and why it's costing you scale.07:34 — Step One: Get out of your product bubble and into your customer's head. Why focusing on the customer's problem—not your product—is where growth starts.11:15 — Step Two: Map the customer journey like a pro. Learn how to move beyond “trial to paid” and take customers from curious prospects to raving fans.21:17 — Build high-converting customer experiences by solving real problems—no shiny features needed.23:04 — Step Three: Figure out what “good” really looks like for your best-fit customers and find the gaps in your current experience.26:43 — Case Study: Claire and Gia walk you through how they used the CLG framework with Invoice Simple to uncover hidden growth levers.Why This MattersScaling your SaaS isn't about cramming in new features or guessing what customers want. It's about understanding who your best customers are and solving their real problems. That's what drives growth. If you want to unlock real scale, this episode is your playbook.Your Next MoveListen now, and then head to forgetthefunnel.com to get even more insights on how to turn Customer-Led Growth into your secret weapon for scale. Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook Previous Episodes How Customer Blind Spots are Costing Your Team & How to Fix Them on Apple Podcasts Avoiding Common Customer Research Traps (and What Good Research Looks Like) on Apple Podcasts

“Sell benefits, not features”. We've all seen the UserOnboard image of Mario + the magic flower = Super Mario. Or Popeye + spinach = super extra-strength Popeye. It's the best practice that says you should focus on selling the benefits of your product, rather than the features. What if we told you that this is a best practice that's lazy and risky?Welp. It is. Different customers value different things at different stages of their decision-making. We can't assume that our customers only care about the benefits or business outcomes of your product. Don't get us wrong. Making the outcomes your product provides clear is important. But is it the right thing to be leading with across all of your marketing and messaging and onboarding? I think you're already picking up what we're putting down. So what should you do instead? Shock. You gotta start with knowing what will resonate with your customers and then translating that into messaging that will convert. That's what we dig into on this episode of the Forget The Funnel Podcast. And we're joined by Anthony Pierri from FletchPMM  to help dispel the whole “sell benefits, not features” best practice brilliantly. He shares the example of the humble homepage; how a lot of brands write its content for the person who they think will approve the deal - some executive - leaning way too heavily into the ‘benefits' and ‘outcomes' they think they'll care about. Increased revenue. Reduced risk. Saved time. …which leads to totally undifferentiated “me too” messaging. This episode is for SaaS founders & practitioners who are looking to: - Home in on the value themes your customers care about- Map those themes to relevant product capabilities (whether feature or benefit-based)- And make sure your messaging is targeted and effective and converts more high-LTV customers. Discussed: How exclusively focusing on benefits can lead to generic, “me too” messaging that turns prospects off - if they even pay attention in the first place. Why understanding what customers value at different decision-making stages leads to higher LTV customers. And techniques for identifying what resonates most with your customers to develop targeted messaging and marketing.  Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook Previous Episodes How Customer Blind Spots are Costing Your Team & How to Fix Them on Apple Podcasts Avoiding Common Customer Research Traps (and What Good Research Looks Like) on Apple Podcasts

SaaS teams use the best practice of  A/B testing like a crutch for marketing, messaging and product growth decisions. And it makes sense. If you think about it, A/B testing something relieves you of so much burden. Not sure which headline is gonna resonate? Test it! Teammates have an (ahem, questionable) idea for how to improve conversions? Test it!Here's the problem with the “test everything” approach: The vast majority of A/B testing is void of customer understanding and designed to make incremental improvements, typically without impacting revenue in any meaningful way.If you can 'cut the cord' from the purely data-driven statistical model of trying to optimize a page or user journey, you can build bigger, better, more powerful A/B tests that hit customers directly in the feels (and your ARR).On this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast, Marc Thomas from Podia shares why testing isn't the best practice it's cracked up to be. Georgiana and Claire share when running tests is valuable and why knowing how your customers think, feel, and behave helps you run more productive and profitable tests.Timestamps:1:04—Marc Thomas discusses A/B testing as a flawed “best practice” in SaaS. He explains why it isn't always the answer and why getting close to your best customers is a better alternative.10:28—Georgiana discusses scenarios when teams might use A/B testing, like validating a hypothesis before taking a big swing. She also explores when a smaller conversion rate can actually be a good thing.15:07—Claire explains why testing for testing's sake will not produce the desired results. Instead, effective testing starts with understanding your customers to form stronger hypotheses.18:11—Georgiana tells a story of how testing went south for one company when the team tried to find a suitable pricing model. A/B testing steered them wrong until they zeroed in on their best-fit, higher-value customers and what value meant to them.23:29—Georgiana talks about the value of identifying Jobs-to-be-Done for one company so that they can build the customer experience around their high-value customers and optimize for the right things for the right customer.27:25—Claire points out how major organizational change can come from a handful of conversations and when SaaS companies should run tests. Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook Previous Episodes How Customer Blind Spots are Costing Your Team & How to Fix Them on Apple Podcasts Avoiding Common Customer Research Traps (and What Good Research Looks Like) on Apple Podcasts

If you're building a racecar, friction is bad news. But when you're building an onboarding experience for your software product, things are a little more nuanced. This week, we're dialing into why the pervasive push for a frictionless user experience in your product onboarding isn't just overrated—it might be undermining your growth potential.At some point, SaaS founders and product managers started taking for granted that friction in the user journey was always a bad thing. But that so-called “best practice” isn't always the best because it doesn't account for your potential customer's context. And as we know, context is everything when it comes to their decision-making process.In fact, your customers often *need* friction to convince them to keep using your product.How can you tell good friction from bad to make sure your users get to key moments of value, educate your potential customers, and unveil what really matters to them?On this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Ramli John shares why “remove all friction” is a best practice we should forget. Georgiana and Claire also share why friction gets a bad rap, when to add it in or remove it, and how customer insight unlocks how to add profitable friction for your SaaS. Discussed:Why “remove all friction from your product onboarding” became a best practice and why it's not actually helpful advice.The difference between unnecessary friction and useful friction and how good friction can help users keep going in your product, including real-life examples.Why customer intel is essential to getting new users to moments of value when you're adding and removing friction.Key moments:1:56 - Ramli John shares his favorite flawed best practice: “You have to remove all friction from the user journey.” This advice isn't universal — friction can be helpful and add value to the user experience. 5:31 - Georgiana and Claire second Ramli's take and break down what friction is, why it gets a bad rap, and why it shouldn't (at least, not always).8:29 - Claire describes “Exhibit A” of unnecessary friction: a lengthy demo form where sales don't actually use all the information gathered. The questions may be intended to create a better experience, but it's a chore to fill out — and the friction's unhelpful.11:47 - Georgiana walks through examples of products where friction is good, like Canva's approach to catering the product experience and Wave asking for the user's logo to show what an invoice would look like.15:26 - Sometimes “best practices” are in direct conflict with what customers want, which is why customer knowledge is critical. Georgiana shares an example of how Bitly introduced friction to educate customers based on Jobs to Be Done research and the resulting use cases. 20:27 - Claire shares how it can hurt you to remove friction when you shouldn't, using an analogy from IKEA. If it's the user's first tim Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

How do you empower your team to make better decisions in their day-to-day work to increase conversions and drive more revenue?Here's the thing: Most companies claim to be customer-led. They say things like, “We talk to our customers all the time,” “Our CSAT scores are great," and “User testing is part of our DNA.” But actual customer-led growth means mobilizing your entire team around the ideal customer's experience. Not piecemeal in Product, Marketing or CS.If you're going to mobilize a truly customer-led team, you need to know which pitfalls to avoid and how to set your team up for success so that they can take customer insight and turn it into revenue-generating outcomes for your business. On this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Georgiana and Claire break down why Customer-Led Growth is such a powerful tool for driving revenue and how it helps your team break down silos and actually align around your ideal customer. They also share the challenges you might encounter when implementing CLG and how to navigate them.Discussed:The benefits of Customer-Led Growth for teams and what it looks like to implement it well.The practicality of a CLG approach and how it helps teams build more relevant, resonant customer experiences to drive conversions, revenue, and all-around smarter decisions.Common traps that teams fall into when trying to implement — from practitioners who “go rogue” to having too many cooks in the kitchen — and how to avoid them.Key moments:1:32 - Georgiana describes what it looks like to implement customer-led growth, why a lot of companies that say they're “customer-centric” are full of it, and the benefits of being truly customer-led.4:44 - Claire digs into why CLG helps teams feel more connected to the customer and the power of a shared language across different departments. She also describes how it helped one customer to have Jobs-to-Be-Done language in real time.7:00 - Georgiana shares how a CLG approach drives a better, more resonant customer experience, which, in turn, impacts conversion rates, revenue, and your highest-level business goals.9:44 - Claire describes how adding one question to your sign-up form can be a huge win for customer-led growth and trigger more valuable and relevant customer experiences right away.11:23 - The pair talks through some of the traps teams fall into when CLG goes wrong, starting with one person trying to push the project forward on their own without involving other stakeholders — AKA the lone wolf. 17:01 - Claire talks about another challenging dynamic: stakeholders cycling in and out of a project due to turnover. Georgiana offers her take on why it happens and how to navigate it.18:48 - You shouldn't “lone wolf” customer-led growth, but involving too many stakeholders is a problem, too. Claire and Georgiana explore the challenges of having too many cooks in the CLG kitchenFollow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/book Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

We need to talk about voice of customer — because there's been a misunderstanding.Voice of customer isn't just for huge companies. It's also not an abstract, academic concept that's too broad for teams to use. Done right, insights pulled from the words your customers use are practical and actionable. And they can help your team make better business decisions day in and day out. Best of all, you don't have to undertake a massive, endless research project to start putting the words of your best customers, aka ‘Voice of Customer', to work for your business. You can tap into both quick-win and in-depth methods to capture and leverage those insights to attract way more great-fit customers.Ready to tap into VoC? Listen to this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast as Georgiana and Claire dive deep into why the voice of the customer matters, how you can (and should) apply it to your business, and the methods you can use to get started.Discussed:Common misconceptions about voice of customer and how it fits into the foundational understanding of your customers.Methods for capturing voice of customer, including customer interviews, qualitative surveys, signup flows, social listening and other quick-win tactics.Practical applications for voice of customer, from your homepage copy to product positioning and onboarding experiences.Key moments:1:12 - Claire kicks things off by defining voice of customer, and Georgiana explains some of the misconceptions that might hold companies back from capturing and using it.5:16 - Georgiana takes a “then and now” look at the voice of customer concept. She compares how the term was first used in 1993 to how it looks today, with practical daily applications in areas like marketing. 8:38 - Georgiana explains how capturing voice of customer is part of foundational customer understanding. She also describes the output of those conversations: both high-level understanding and actual customer quotes.12:05 - Claire asks Georgiana to share some methods for capturing voice of customer beyond customer interviews.16:21 - Claire offers guidance for which methods to start with when gathering the voice of the customer and the importance of knowing that your insights are coming from your best-fit customers.21:51 - Georgiana speaks to the importance of recording and manually transcribing customer interviews — and why you shouldn't use AI to transcribe for voice of customer.24:27 - Georgiana and Claire share an example of a customer who gathered the voice of the customer through qualitative surveys. What they learned completely changed their messaging, which led to a 93% increase in product sign-ups.30:39 - Voice of customer is versatile and applicable well beyond your website homepage. Georgiana closes out the episode by sharing the many applications for the voice of customer.Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

It's rough out there in SaaS—everyone's feeling it. Whether you're trying to lower your acquisition costs, make the most of organic inbound interest, or better meet the needs of your technical buyers, you might be ready to take a more product-led approach to growth.But if you're a sales-led organization, the transition to product-led can be bumpy, and the idea of switching probably raises more questions than answers. How do you validate that there's a real ‘product-led' opportunity for your SaaS? How do you prevent cannabilizing your sales opportunities?  What would a shift like this mean for your team? What are some low-risk ways to leverage your product for acquisition?If you've got questions like those, don't miss this Forget the Funnel podcast episode. Claire and Georgiana dig into all things product-led and share the indications that your SaaS is ready for a product-led approach, how to navigate company culture pitfalls, and the baby steps you can take to get started and validate the transition.Discussed:Key indicators that signal your SaaS is ready for product-led growth.Cultural and team alignment are essentials for a smooth transition to PLG, and marketing, product, and other teams might need to change.Practical starting points for integrating product-led tactics into your current business model. Key moments:2:03—Georgiana breaks down the differences between sales-led and product-led growth and other approaches to growth. 4:01 - Claire asks Georgiana to walk through the signs that a company might need to move toward product-led growth or that it's time to transition away from founder-led sales. 9:14 - Team culture is critical in shifting to a product-led approach. Claire and Georgiana explore some potential growing pains when moving away from the sales-led structure (and where to focus on overcoming those).13:50—Claire shares the cautionary tale of a company where the CEO wanted to move to a product-led approach but didn't do the legwork to get buy-in from the rest of the leadership team.15:06 - Georgiana explores how the move to product-led growth might look for different teams  — and how, in particular, the expectations of product and marketing need to shift.19:14—Georgiana explores tangible ways companies can start the transition from a purely sales-led to a product-led approach, including learning from their customers to better leverage their product.20:52 -  Claire and Georgiana break down examples of tactical entry points to PLG, like a video from the CEO when someone books a demo and sandboxes or other low-touch customer experiences.28:38—The pair closes out the episode by emphasizing how important it is to know your customers intimately before you can leverage product-led growth.Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

“We don't need customer research; we already know our customers.” “Research takes too long.” “Is qualitative research even valuable enough?” These objections to customer research are super common—every day, founders and teams use these excuses (and oh so many more) not to learn more from their customers. Maybe you're wrestling with these objections yourself or trying to move others past them to get internal buy-in for customer research. Either way, here's the bottom line: There's no better way to gain the intel you need to grow your SaaS and improve conversions than by getting inside your customers' heads.In this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Claire and Georgiana break down the four most common myths about customer research they've encountered. They talk through where they come from, how to get past them, and why foundational customer understanding is critical for every business decision you make.Discussed:The top four customer research objections.The importance of building a foundational customer understanding based on 10 to 12 conversations with recent, paying, and happy customers—and why you don't need to spend endless months and tens of thousands of dollars on research.How do changes in your customers, market, product, and team make customer research all the more urgent? Key moments:1:32 — Claire sets the stage for the episode by outlining the four most common objections to customer research.3:18—Georgiana discusses the most common research objection: “We already know our customers.” Claire explains why founders often feel this way and the problem with leaning on early-stage intuition long-term.6:22 — Georgiana speaks to the similar objection that customer success or product teams frequently research or interviews with customers and why this misses the forest for the trees.10:42 — Claire shares the second most common customer research objection: “Research takes too much time.” Georgiana breaks down where this objection comes from. (Hint: It's usually prior experiences with research projects on a massive scale.)13:18 — Georgiana explains what it can look like to gain foundational customer understanding with 10 to 12 customer interviews, along with quicker wins like running a qualitative customer survey or adding a question to your sign-up form.18:49 — Georgiana introduces the third objection, which shows up when people think 10 interviews couldn't possibly be enough or want quantitative proof. Claire breaks down the context you need when running customer interviews and the importance of pattern saturation, which you can get from 10 to 12 interviews.25:01 —  The fourth and final objection comes when a product moves into a new market, and the team doesn't think they can learn from their current customer base. Georgiana explains why this objection has become more common in recent years.33:54 — The pair ends the episode by pointing to other episodes of the podcast and resources that explore these topics and objections more in-depth.Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

From competitive analysis to NPS surveys to UX research, research can help you grow your business and revenue. But you're wasting your time if you jump into those research types without a foundational understanding of your ideal customer and what they're trying to accomplish. You'll end up down unhelpful or misleading paths that leave you with more questions than answers. As they say, you'll be ‘missing the forest for the trees'.Starting with qualitative customer interviews—conversations with your best customers about what led them to your solution in the first place and the value you're driving for them now–is the gold standard for a reason.  Customer interviews are how you reverse engineer their experience to find and acquire more customers like them. In this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Claire and Georgiana get super tactical about the art of interviewing customers. They explain what it takes to interview well, the critical elements of a Jobs-to-Be-Done interview, and the pitfalls to avoid when you're new to customer research.Discussed:How to pick the right customers to interview and the skills that make someone a great customer interviewer so you can choose the right team member to run them.The elements of an effective Jobs-to-Be-Done style interview and questions to ask.Mistakes you should avoid in customer research, how a question script can help, and how bringing in an outside expert can be an advantage for deeper learning with the added benefit to the team.Key Moments:1:32—Georgiana asks Claire to clarify why you would choose customer interviews over other customer research methods. Claire shares how learning from your ideal customers is the foundational research that helps you make strategic decisions.5:02—Claire explains how one client with a broad customer base chose the right customers to interview: They started with a survey to gather key data points and identify who had embedded a critical feature into their workflow.9:27 - Claire explains the “unfair advantage” some of your team members may have for customer interviews: a knack for active listening and navigating unpredictability without getting flustered. 10:10 - Georgiana asks Claire to break down the elements of a Jobs-to-Be-Done-style interview, and Claire shares about guiding the customer to explain what their life looked like before they “hired” your solution.  17:21 - Claire breaks down the pitfalls to avoid if your team is new to customer research. She recommends having a question script (one you adapt as you go) or outsourcing customer interviews to an expert. 19:22—Georgiana talks about why sensing a customer's energy makes interviewing a task that AI won't be able to take over for humans anytime soon.22:20—The pair finishes out the episode with their advice to founders about outsourcing customer interviews: You get the benefit of external expertise, and someone from your team can ride sidecar to upskill and do it themselves in the future.Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

One study found that 70% of people who sign up for a product log in once… and then never again. That's why customer-led KPIs aren't just about measuring when someone becomes a “customer” — they're about measuring the critical customer outcomes that lead to high retention. To do that, you must focus on genuine customer value: getting them from their first moment of value to value realization, continued value and beyond. So, how do you define your own customer-led KPIs? You need to know what “job” your customers are hiring your solution to solve for them. You need to understand what matters to them to map that value to the specific parts of your product that deliver that value.In this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast — the second of two episodes on customer-led KPIs — Claire and Georgiana share how to build your KPIs around moments of value for your customers. They explain how to map the customer experience, share examples of customer-led KPIs, and explore how to rally your team around your new KPIs.Discussed:What your customer journey map isn't telling you and how the three phases of the customer experience will help you operationalize growth.The critical importance of getting the evaluation phase KPIs right and how to leverage Jobs-to-be-Done to measure value realization.How to rally your team around customer-led KPIs and maximize their impact on growth.Key Moments:1:47 - Claire and Georgiana explore the difference between customer journey mapping and customer experience mapping.3:31 - Georgiana shares why the evaluation phase of the customer experience is critical for setting customer-led KPIs — and how many teams get it wrong. She also breaks down the importance of first value and value realization at this stage.7:09 - Claire asks Georgiana to talk through examples of customer-led KPIs, and Georgiana walks through a hypothetical example of how to tie a particular product feature to a moment of value.9:52 - Georgiana defines value realization (AKA reaching true product engagement) and what a corresponding KPI looks like.11:10 - Before your customers get to value realization, your only job is to help them hit those value-focused KPIs — so you shouldn't be throwing every possible feature at them. Georgiana explains that once they've hit value realization, you can shift to helping them get additional value through additional features or expanding to other team members.14:06 - Claire asks Georgiana to speak about how to rally people around customer-led KPIs instead of letting those metrics sit on the shelf. (Hint: Customer-led KPIs are way more motivating than transactional measures of success.)16:27 - Another way to embed customer-led KPIs for your team? Evaluate your current customer experience and figure out what's misaligned with your new KPIs, which will open new opportunities. 17:48 - Claire finishes the episode by sharing advice for more mature and nimble companies to gather data to implement and track customer-led KPIs.Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

If you're measuring everything, you're measuring nothing. It's so important for you to pick a handful of key performance indicators (KPIs) for your team to focus on — or they won't end up moving the needle on anything. But how do you pick KPIs that matter, so you can motivate and incentivize your team to drive customer value (and ultimately, growth)? Instead of transactional measures of success, focus on customer-focused KPIs that let you measure moments of value. You need to know which parts of your product drive customer value and measure your ability to move them from one milestone to the next. In this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast — the first of two episodes on customer-led KPIs — Claire and Georgiana define customer-led KPIs and share why metrics that focus on helping customers solve problems are more actionable and motivating for your team.Discussed:The definition of KPIs and why each team needs them.Why focusing on transactional measures is a problem — and why measuring experiential moments in the customer relationship is the way to go.The prerequisites for setting customer-led KPIs and the importance of knowing which parts of your product drive value for the customer.Key Moments:2:30 - Georgiana defines KPIs and shares why they're a critical metric. She explains that when you measure everything, you're measuring nothing, so your team needs to focus on a few KPIs. 3:47 - Claire and Georgiana differentiate transactional measures of success — like trial-to-paid conversions or entering a credit card — from customer-focused KPIs, which measure experiential moments in the customer relationship. 6:40 - Georgiana explains why transactional measures of success can be problematic KPIs (even though lagging indicators like MRR and churn do matter).10:37 - Claire shares why it's a mistake to measure your growth team by lead numbers rather than focusing on lead quality or the value they can get down the line. Gia also speaks to success indicators that can be misleading, like daily, weekly, and monthly users, and breaks down MQLs, SQLs, and PQLs.16:10 - Claire asks Georgiana to share about the prerequisites for defining customer-led KPIs that tie your team's success to customer value.19:29 - Georgiana talks about how common it is for product teams to get so excited about their offering that they throw the kitchen sink at new customers because they're not sure about what parts of their product they should introduce to customers in which order.21:30 - The pair ends the episode by talking about converting customers in a low-touch way: You need to know the parts of the product that drive value and measure your ability to help customers get from one milestone to the next. Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/Check out Forget the Funnel's website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

Not all customers are created equal.Increasing conversions with the right message to the right person at the right time is a pipe dream for most teams. The problem is that you haven't figured out how to meaningfully segment your customers to do it yet.We got you. In this episode of the Forget The Funnel Podcast, Claire and Georgiana deep dive into the de facto segmentation tools that have so many teams tripping over themselves – Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP), Personas & Jobs-to-be-Done (JTBD). Walking through real-world examples, we break down when it's mission-critical to get segmentation right; your founder's intuition won't scale, your marketing and messaging are falling flat, and your product-led experiences need to pull their weight - AKA when you need to grow. Discussed:The differences between ICPs, Personas and JBTD - and when to leverage each in your decision-making. Why founder intuition doesn't scale and how a systematic understanding of customer segments is necessary for scale. How the promise of 'right message, right person, right time' is achievable and will help you grow more efficiently across marketing, sales and product.  Key Moments:1:58 - Claire and Georgiana outline some of the questions that are being asked at the executive-level around the use of customer segmentation tools like personas, ICPs and Jobs-to-be-Done.3:06 - Georgiana clarifies that no one customer segmentation tool is necessarily better than another; they all have their uses in different contexts. But getting a clear understanding on what these tools mean for your business is key. 5:38 - Claire and Georgiana share their definition of customer segmentation and give a real-world example of what this means in the context of a Forget The Funnel customer, SparkToro. They then break down their definitions of ICP and personas.9:37 - Georgiana asks Claire to unpack the nuance between the customer research done by teams using personas versus the customer research done using Jobs-to-be-Done.15:02 - Georgiana unpacks in what situations ICPs are the most useful tool for SaaS product and marketing teams, and when personas make more sense. 18:25 - Claire share one of the main takeaways from the episode - that founder intuition does not scale. You can intuit your way to getting the right person, at the right time, with the right message in the early days, but eventually you hit the point of diminishing returns - where you'll then need to look at customer segmentation tools to unlock the next stage of growth. Claire shares the example of Attune to illustrate this.25:55 - The pair finish the episode by talking about the opportunity cost of failing to understand the different segments your product services - even during an economic downturn.  Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

You operate in a crowded market. How are you going to stand out? That's what Claire and Georgiana discuss on this week's episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast.Differentiation is essential in helping cut through the noise and bring in more best-fit customers. Yet, many SaaS companies try to compete by obsessing over their competitors' strategies and messaging. We can tell you from experience… it never works. Drawing on real-world examples from their work with "landscaping.io" and "hiring.io", Claire and Georgiana share practical advice on how to switch from being competitor-obsessed to customer-obsessed and unlock the differentiated value you can offer your customers. Discussed:What are the challenges of building a SaaS company in crowded and commoditized markets, especially regarding "me too" messaging and positioning?How two SaaS teams went deep with their best-fit customers to uncover their differentiated value.How did this new understanding impact their product messaging and acquisition strategies to stand out from competitors and win customers? Key Moments:[2:07] Georgiana and Clare discuss how SaaS businesses often struggle to cut through the noise.[5:10] Claire shares responses to a survey from Peep Leja, which showed that Saas businesses often have difficulty with differentiation.[6:26] Claire talks through the example of a landscaping business that Forget The Funnel is currently working with, which was looking to redevelop its messaging while not risking a small window of seasonal sales opportunity. [16:02] Georgiana speaks about the importance of focusing on what your customers want instead of what your competitors are doing.[18:58] Claire shares another example of an international hiring company running an outbound sales strategy that looked the same as their competitors - and how they got close to their customers to understand that professional services were a key differentiator.[31:23] Both Georgiana and Claire wrap up this episode by saying SaaS companies need clarification by thinking that developing robust and differentiated messaging is a marketing exercise when it's not.  Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

The numbers are in: SaaS growth is flat or down. Cost to acquire customers is up.Global startup investment over the last twelve months reached $285 billion — a 38% decline year over year, according to Crunchbase*.  Gone are the days of ‘move fast and break things'. SaaS leaders are being forced to think about efficiency or risk running out of runway.And we think this is a really good thing.Why?Finally, rather than spending more on the ‘top of the funnel', founders are looking more closely at their positioning, messaging, onboarding and early product experience as the powerful growth levers they are. Also, more than ever before, it's not just mature SaaS companies leveraging customer marketing for post-acquisition expansion strategies.In this episode, Georgiana Laudi & Claire Suellentrop dig into building resilience to the top of funnel challenges facing SaaS right now - from tactics to help lower the cost of acquiring new customers, to growing revenue by focusing on expanding your existing customers. Discussed:Why it's now more complicated than ever to acquire new customers in SaaS - and the missed opportunity in successfully finding ways to expand revenue from existing ones.How to lower CAC and increase efficiency across the ‘funnel' - from getting ridiculously close to the customer through research to building scalable customer experiences and programmatic communications. Key Moments: [4:44] Georgiana and Claire outline the reality facing many SaaS companies right now - a focus on profitability, slowed growth, and diminishing returns on once-reliable growth tactics. [8:20] The pair discuss why the evolution of customer expectations has led to the skillsets of SaaS teams becoming outdated in an era where net dollar retention is down across the board YoY - and the role leaders play in exacerbating this problem. [12:44] Georgiana unpacks how investing in an existing customer base by expanding on the value you already provide can unlock new opportunities for growth - and some of the ways you can practically do this. [19:01] The pair share their recommendations on how to address lowering the cost of acquisition and increasing efficiency across the board, from optimizing the customer experience for new sign-ups to getting ahead of customer attrition and expanding your existing customer base. [26:40] Georgiana covers the importance of focusing on the buyer champion across marketing and messaging and the danger of trying to talk to too many personas simultaneously - especially in enterprise sales. [30:50] The pair shares practical tips on how to better program reactive and proactive email marketing campaigns to attract new customers and retain/expand old ones. --*Source: https://news.crunchbase.com/venture/global-funding-data-analysis-ai-eoy-2023/ Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

On this episode, Georgiana and Claire are joined by Steve De Jong and Diego Richards, the CEO and CCO of Stillio, who started working with Forget The Funnel earlier this year. Steve and Diego share their journey from blindly experimenting with marketing tactics and dangerously slow growth to a renewed sense of optimism for the future. With a new understanding of their amazing customers, they learned that growth doesn't have to come from spending more on top-of-funnel marketing. We unpack the importance of understanding the use cases for your product, honing in on the ones that matter most – in this case, gaining Steve and Diego the clarity they needed for positioning & messaging their niche product inside a nearly limitless, horizontal market.Discussed:Problems with copying the marketing that works for other SaaS companies and relying on guesswork without clearly understanding the unique value you provide to a unique set of customers.How effective research allowed Stillio to quickly uncover its best customers and develop a more focused, effective messaging strategy with clear, practical outputs. Being open to seeking out external expertise to help guide you to a more customer-centric approach quicker - especially when the skillset is missing internally. Key Moments: [2:57] Steve and Diego explain the problem Stillio solves, their roles within the company and how they came to work with Forget The Funnel. [6:51] Georgiana, Diego, and Claire discuss the dangers of copying what seems to work for other SaaS companies and running marketing for marketing's sake. [10:52] Steve talks about the product marketing challenges of building a product for so many potential customers with so many potential use cases. [13:26] Diego shares some new and unique insights they discovered about their best customers through their research efforts - from understanding which segments were signing up for the long haul and others to set up and forget. [15:47] The group discusses the different types of Jobs of the Stillio product identified from the research and how this impacted practical decision-making across how they present themselves through their marketing. [20:46] Georgiana explains the massive short-term opportunity in identifying the customers who implicitly understand the value of your product. [23:03] Diego and Steve share some practical ways customer research influences their priorities, from reconsidering their overall messaging to updating the company homepage and email campaigns. [27:07] Diego talks about the value the Stillio team found in working with an objective, external partner that could provide focus to their customer research efforts. Check out StillioConnect with Steve and Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

In this episode of the Forget The Funnel Podcast, Georgiana and Claire discuss what happens when SaaS businesses prioritize customer research but screw it up, and how this can lead to perpetuating the vicious cycle of resistance to research in the first place. They dig into why this happens, from misaligned goals between teams, wasting time with research that isn't actionable, and why looking to win/loss analysis, big quantitative surveys or even UX research to guide product and marketing decisions can leave teams feeling stuck.Georgiana and Claire also share an outline of what good customer research looks like - research that gives SaaS leaders the clarity and confidence needed to turn insight into revenue growth. Discussed:What bad research looks like - and what causes it in the first place. Why not all research methods will get you the answers you need, especially when teams lack a foundational understanding of customers.Why it can be problematic to rely on internal resources to run homegrown research projects - even if the leads have the word ‘research' in their job title. What good research looks like (it should be obvious what to do next after it's done) and how to make it super actionable for your team. Key Moments:[1:58] Claire shares a story of a Product Manager who fell back into bad habits by working on assumptions. [7:25] Georgiana and Claire talk about botched customer surveys. [11:33] Georgiana unpacks why not all research is equal, and assigning the wrong kind of research to a project can leave you with more questions than answers. [13:38] Claire shares an example of a team Forget The Funnel worked where a  UX researcher led a customer research project - and how the end result didn't give the team the insights they needed. [16:46] Georgiana and Claire discuss how research done well should feel immediately actionable - and this starts with setting a clear goal at the start of the project.[18:32] Georgiana breaks down the importance of having an internal sponsor and stakeholder in any customer research project who can help champion the work.[20:10] Both discuss what good research looks like - from setting the right expectations, staying focussed on the best customers, clear segmentation, and asking the right questions.  Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

On this episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, Georgiana & Claire are joined by Dan Stuart, President of EverCommerce companies Invoice Simple & Joist. Dan shares the moment he realized that the data his team relied on to make growth decisions about their 400,000 customers wasn't helping them make real progress, the importance of continually validating core beliefs about your product, and the advice he would give to other SaaS leaders to get out of their own way and capture business critical insights.Discussed:Dan shares how overreliance on assumptions stacks over time and how critical it is to re-evaluate and retest the customer experience you're building continually.How Invoice Simple drastically improved their GTM experiments by transitioning from being a ‘data factory' to incorporating real-world customer insight. How Invoice Simple measures success across key metrics like user acquisition to customer churn.Dan's advice to other business leaders for how to support their cross-functional teams by providing them with the time, capability and expertise, not just for short-term success but to help them level-up overall.The importance of integrated planning within functional areas of your business and strategic pillars, and how an external team is often better equipped to handle internal competing assumptions and priorities. Key Moments:[3:51] The Invoice Simple product and the broad range of customers they're targeting.[5:15] Dan talks about his growth from product and engineering to President and the ever-evolving need to adapt to new customers while keeping their long-standing customers happy. [7:59] Invoice Simple was a data factory whose early success was primarily due to being data-driven and making experimentation-based decisions.[13:33] Why Dan decided data wasn't enough, his desire for more specific roles around research, and his belief that customer research has so much value.[17:31] Finding cross-functional alignment within teams and across strategic pillars.[21:15] Dan explains how his internal team decided which customer segment to go after, shifting, reorienting, and aligning teams towards this new segment. [24:47] Dan talks about uncovering this new customer understanding and what it meant for onboarding new customers to Invoice Simple. [27:21] Dan shares an example of customer messaging that he and his team prioritize now, thanks to customer research. [32:40] What Dan thinks are the most significant results from using customer insights. ---Check out Invoice SimpleConnect with Daniel Stuart on LinkedIn Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

In this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Georgiana and Claire sit down to discuss the consequences of not understanding what really matters to your customers and how product and marketing teams find themselves in this situation way too often. They talk about the signals that show your team has less insight than they need to make good decisions and how you, as a team leader or founder, may be making the problem worse. Finally, they share a real-world story of a customer who went into the market with one understanding of their ideal customer - only for shifts in the market to force their hand and reevaluate everything they thought they knew about their customers, marketing and messaging. Key takeaways: Signs you and your team don't know who your best customers are (or enough about them), including slowed and inconsistent growth or trying new tactics that aren't moving the needle. Why A/B testing and experimentation is valuable, but only if it comes after building a solid foundational understanding of what matters to your best customers with research.A great example of a team with an early mover advantage who was suddenly in a saturated market and needed to go from one understanding of their customers to another quickly. Highlights:[3:48] The typical a-ha moment for founders to know they need customer research. [6:13] The consequences of companies not understanding their best customers. [9:25] An example of the failure of not knowing your target customer[12:02] Why these failures bubble up due to legacy knowledge, poor documentation, and resistance to research (even if you know it's critical to your success). [17:45] An example of a company whose business was negatively impacted during COVID, new companies entering their category, and how Gia and Claire helped them navigate back to success. Tune in and get your notepad ready. Enjoy the show! Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

On this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Gia and Claire dive deep into Bitly's journey from a point-solution to a $100m ARR multi-product platform with CMO Tara Robertson. Tara shares how her team leverages customer research to supercharge the SaaS company's product-led growth.Discussed:Using Jobs-to-be-Done research at a SaaS that serves nearly limitless use-cases for customers ranging from B2C and micro-business to a Fortune 100 enterprise. The differences between your customer's “Jobs”, ICP (ideal customer profile), personas, and target audience - and how Bitly develops a nuanced view of its different customer journies to guide its strategy.Building internal alignment at a leadership level through active listening, communication, and setting shared goals. The story behind Tara's cross-functional collaboration with Product to get both teams aligned in their understanding of customers and speaking the same customer-centric language.Key Moments: [3:10] Bit.ly's growth story is evolving beyond the virality of link shortening into the world's leading connections platform, doing over 100 million in ARR.[5:00] Moving from a traditional sales model to building a product-led business and how Tara's marketing team works cross-functionally with Product, Sales, and Customer Success.[7:00] The CEO tells Tara it's time to rethink the way they do marketing. They needed a highly strategic team working in partnership with the Product team to create positioning and shared language, and that required a lot of research.[11:00] Marketing is using personas, Sales are leveraging ICPs, and the Product team is doing user research—how do you get everyone aligned to make the most significant impact across the organization, and what does it mean for the bottom line?[16:00] Finding alignment in the differences between Jobs-to-be-Done and ICP around goals for different teams.[19:26] You don't have to be pro-jobs and anti-persona or vice versa. Tara shares how the partnership between her and the Chief Product Officer was critical to ensuring the teams understood each other to avoid missing out on some “distinguished but niche audiences.[23:00] Tara shares an example of a small customer base that equates to significant revenue, how to find those niche use cases, and the need to create different journeys for different customer jobs.[25:46] The value of being a good communicator, collaborator, and listener as a CMO and how to do that work.[28:30] Tara talks about leveraging the language from the Jobs-to-be-Done research for use on their product pages (and the SEO value). —Check out Bit.lyConnect with Tara Robertson on LinkedIn Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn

Every B2B SaaS leader knows the frustration of poor decision-making. Despite your team working hard to build and market a great product, revenue growth is often inconsistent and unpredictable. In this show, Claire Suellentrop and Georgiana Laudi, co-founders of Forget the Funnel, break down how to evolve beyond guesswork by adopting the Customer-Led Growth framework - a systematic approach to help businesses understand their best customers, map & measure their experience, and unlock their best levers for growth.So, if you're a SaaS leader looking to help your marketing and product teams make smarter decisions that drive predictable revenue - this show is for you. Buy the book: Forget the Funnel book (Paperback, eBook, or audiobook) Visit the website: Forget the Funnel Connect with Claire Suellentrop on LinkedIn Connect with Georgiana Laudi on LinkedIn