Podcasts about mqls

Why B2B Lead Qualification Fails and How to Fix It  Traffic is cheap, but qualified B2B sales conversions are not. Too many CMOs in the B2B space are watching brilliant creative go to waste at the top of the marketing funnel because what's passing through as a “qualified lead” often isn't really qualified. How can B2B marketers identify where the real lead qualification bottleneck is? Why is rethinking how MQLs are defined, scored, and routed one the most strategic fixes a CMO can make to improve pipeline performance? That's why we're talking to Gabe Lullo (CEO, Alleyoop), who shared some insights around why B2B lead qualification fails and how to fix it at the top of the funnel. During our discussion, Gabe challenged the common misconception that poor lead quality is the issue when sales aren't closing. Instead, he emphasized the importance of a clearly-defined Ideal Customer Profile (ICP), a strong product-market fit, and a well-mapped B2B sales journey. Gabe also stressed the need for A/B testing, identifying and resolving funnel bottlenecks, and using data-driven decision-making to improve lead conversion rates. He underscored the value of nurturing leads and cautioned B2B marketers against dismissing traditional marketing channels without rigorous testing. https://youtu.be/KXVmywNsfP0 Topics discussed in episode: [02:36] Why top-of-funnel lead qualification breaks down in B2B. [16:37] How to define and operationalize your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP). [12:17] When MQLs hurt more than they help, and how to fix them. [26:14] How A/B testing and data-driven decisions improve lead conversion. [27:53] Why lead nurturing is critical to long sales cycles. [34:05] When to test (not abandon) traditional B2B marketing channels. Companies and links mentioned: Gabe Lullo on LinkedIn  Alleyoop  ZoomInfo  Salesloft  Adobe  Transcript SPEAKERS Gabe Lullo, Christian Klepp Gabe Lullo  00:00 So we’re doing top of funnel activities, and then we’re sending leads over. The sales team takes them, and then what we find, a lot, we hear this all the time, is leads aren’t closing. And what’s interesting is that it was never a lead problem. It was more of a, you know, seller problem. I don’t mean to put blame on it, but companies come to us saying, hey, my sellers are saying we don’t have enough leads, we don’t have better leads, we don’t have good leads, and they’re the ones complaining about the lead. So they come to us to fix the lead problem. We fix the lead problem, but it doesn’t fix the revenue problem. It’s still not closing. So what is it? Christian Klepp  00:30 Traffic is cheap, but conversion is not too many CMOs (Chief Marketing Officer) are watching brilliant, creative go to waste at the top of the funnel, because what’s passing through as qualified just isn’t so how can you identify where the real bottleneck is, and why is rethinking how MQLs (Marketing Qualified Leads) are defined and scored the single most strategic fix? A CMO can make welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Gabe Lullo, who will be answering these questions. He’s the CEO of Alleyoop, a sales development agency working with industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft and Adobe. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is, and off we go. Mr. Gabe Lullo, welcome to the show, sir. Gabe Lullo  01:17 Christian. Thank you so much. First off, I’m a huge fan of yours, so is my team, and we just appreciate all that you do for the industry. And I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for the invite. Christian Klepp  01:28 Wow, wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. Right off the gate with the praise, thank you, sir. Gabe Lullo  01:33 Well, you deserve it, man, you’re the best. What do you do. I love it. I love your show, and I love being a part of that. Christian Klepp  01:38 I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know, we really had an awesome, like, pre-interview conversation. I’m gonna say, like, you know, talking about coming up to Toronto and Buffalo and what have you. And I’m really looking forward to this conversation, Gabe, because, man, you know, what? As much as some Marketers probably don’t want to hear this. It’s an, I think this is an absolutely necessary conversation to have. Right this topic that we’re going to talk about, and I will not keep the audience in suspense for too long. I’m just going to jump into the first question, if you don’t mind. Gabe Lullo  02:09 Yeah, no problem. Let’s get right into it. Christian Klepp  02:11 All right, so Gabe, you’re on a mission to provide the ultimate assist to your clients by setting them up for success. So for this conversation, let’s zero in on the following topic of how B2B Marketers can fix qualification at the top. So here comes the first question in our previous conversation. You talked about many marketing funnels being a leaky bucket. Can you please explain what you meant by that? Gabe Lullo  02:36 Yeah, I think companies right now are going to market in a very hodgepodge type of way, you know, ICP (Ideal Customer Profile), you know, we throw that terminal around a lot, and, you know, people think they know what it is, or feel like they have it drilled down, or feel like it’s completely locked, locked in. And then clients invite us in, and we realize it’s not the case, and it’s not just what the ideal client profile is, which, of course, is quintessential to going to market, and it’s really the first step to qualification, isn’t it, right? But on the other side of it, it is, you know, is there a product market fit? Is there a pricing that needs to be aligned? What’s the competitive landscape look like? So when we’re having live conversations, our sellers are making, you know, 11 million cold calls a year. That’s front of the line conversations, right? And we can hear, understand, and truly, you know, debrief with what each call is sounding like, so we can then narrow in what those qualifications should be. You know, a lot of you know, let’s say VPs of sales come into the sales development side of the house or the marketing side of the house, and they apply sales training methodologies to top of funnel qualifications, and it really gets broken as well. So there’s a lot to unpack, but I’ll give you an example. You know, band for instance, but you know budget authority needed timing. Like, is that really the right qualification at the top of the funnel, or does that really, you know, evolve the seller and the demo and the discovery call at that moment in time. So really understanding who’s in charge of that top of funnel and what their experience is also as a part of it, in my opinion. Christian Klepp  04:13 Absolutely, absolutely and you’re absolutely right. There’s so much to unpack here, but I have to ask just from your experience, and I know you have a lot, it seems like it’s just, there’s so many moving parts in this ecosystem, and a lot of like, well, what causes the leaky funnel? I’m gonna say is a lot of the things that you just mentioned, right? It’s a lack of understanding of who the actual ICP is. It’s probably also, especially the bigger the the organization gets sorry to everyone out there, but the lack of ownership and accountability, the lack of an actual strategy, like, where’s this all gonna go? Right? Gabe Lullo  04:54 Oh, it’s interesting. Yeah, I find this to be our except we so we’re doing top of the funnel activities, and we’re sending leads over, the sales team takes them, and then what we find, a lot, we hear this all the time, is leads aren’t closing. And what’s interesting is that it was never a lead problem. It was more of a seller problem. Now I don’t mean to put blame on it, but companies come to us saying, hey, my sellers are saying we don’t have enough leads, we don’t have better leads, we don’t have good leads, and they’re the ones complaining about the lead so they come to us to fix the lead problem. We fix the lead problem, but it doesn’t fix the revenue problem. It’s still not closing. So what is it? It’s the entire channel, right? It’s the entire sales journey, and we have to make sure that all of those things are working like an engine, right? All the cylinders are working at the same time in the same motion, to truly know what the problem may be. So that that’s really exposed a lot when we step in and start doing top of funnel activities, Christian Klepp  05:55 Absolutely, absolutely. And that segues into the next question, which I feel you’ve already answered to a certain extent. But where do you feel the true bottleneck lies, and that may be dependent on the company, right? Because each company maybe has a different set of challenges. And most importantly, okay, where does the bottleneck lie? And how do how can B2B Marketing teams help address the bottleneck and not be part of the bottleneck? Gabe Lullo  06:21 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s an eight step approach to sales. That’s what we call your sales journey, right? You have, obviously, you know, list building, and then we have, of course, outreach, we have qualification, we have discovery call, we have demo, we have, you know, closing or negotiating. We have client success. I mean, that’s the basic funnel, if you will. So is our, I should say, all of those things operating at the best of its ability. And what is broken, and it’s, it’s the old, you know, Henry Ford approach the assembly line. You know, there’s an assembly line and building a car, and there’s an assembly line in sales. And you have to know those steps, firstly, two, you have to know if those steps are working correctly, and figure out where that bottleneck is, and then, you know, take those blockers away so that those cars are flowing in and the production line doesn’t stop and we’re, you know, executing on the results that we need to serve our clients. Christian Klepp  07:16 100% agree. But now I’m gonna throw in another like wild card question, and I know you can handle it, right? When companies like yours come in to help organizations, right, there are times, even from my own experience, where the internal teams look at you and go, What are those guys doing here? Right? Like, is my job on the line. So they feel, they feel threatened, right by by somebody coming in and providing an external perspective. So I guess the question is, how do you deal with that kind of push back to help fix this leaky marketing funnel? Gabe Lullo  07:57 Yeah, it’s very important, right? Because a lot of companies come, you know, come in like us, and say, You know what, we’re going to come in here and try to solve the problem, or rip and replace or threaten the job. And it’s interesting, our point of contact, usually is the person who may be, you know, being fired because of our success. Well, we don’t want to approach it that way. So we set clear expectations that, hey, listen, we’re not here to rip and replace we are here to work as a parallel to what you’re existing doing, so we can A/B test and share best practices and be collective in those results. A lot of companies who have existing teams in place usually put us in scenarios where we’re bringing something new to market, or we’re reaching out to a market that is you know, you know, a new product line or a new segment, and we’re bringing that in. We do, however, see about a 20 to 30% increase in existing production when an outside partner comes in, because, again, we are sharing best practices. We’re all working together, but there is some pressure on the line when they see it. You know, another great player on the team playing ball. However, we did put a mechanism in place that really helps alleviate the fear, if you will, of that rip and replace scenario. Very unique thing to us, only a handful of companies I know about, of hundreds and if not thousands, that do what we do, do this. And here’s what it is, a lot of companies want to hire everything within and bring everything in house, in the sales development side within, because they graduate those people into account executives or closers or higher level performers or managers, so that graduation of career placement is there if you do it in house. So what we say is, you know what? You can have that great feeling of growing and building your team in house with us too. So all of our reps (representatives) who come work here, and all of our clients who enroll with us know that they can hire our reps and and bring them into their payroll and into their in house team with our help. So that’s a really good way of curving the fear, because they know, hey, this person who’s executing this outbound activity could be our next closer, and we can hire them to not take again, to not take away from what their current teams are doing, but to add to and grow that existing team they have. Christian Klepp  10:14 Absolutely, absolutely, and you know where I’m going with this, right? Because, like, you know, far too often, especially the higher ups that are not involved in the day to day, that are looking at this from the, I call it the Mount Olympus perspective, right, looking down at the land of the living, right? Like, why are you bringing in an external partner? Isn’t that your job to fix it? Right? But there are benefits to your point of, like, bringing in somebody that’s external, that’s not privy to, perhaps, some of the bias, some of the, certainly, the, certainly the organizational like dynamics and politics, which may, may be more detrimental than useful, right? Gabe Lullo  10:50 Yeah. I mean, we do punchy contracts, right? We have a six month minimum engagement. But so when we do that, you know, we’re saying, Hey, listen, we’re, we’re going to work with you for six months. We’re going to give it everything we got. And if it’s something you want to bring in-house from our team, great. If it’s you want to continue, great, or if you’ve learned a lot and you’re able to duplicate our efforts, also great too. So again, we’re not going in there saying, Oh, this is our world. Now. Get out of the way. Good luck, you know, and giving pink slips to people, it’s about really, again, how can we help? How can we assist? How can we hit this number? It’s not getting hit. There has to be reasons why. And let’s figure those numbers out, and let’s figure out the reasons why. And then, and then we move on, you know. So there’s short contracts, and then there’s very, very long contracts, you know, ZoomInfo has been a client off and on for the last decade. We’re doing a program right now where they just launched a lot of cool things, and we’re helping them so companies like that, size and stature, still come to outside help when necessary, when the timing is right and the fit is right. Christian Klepp  11:55 Amazing. Amazing. All right. Next question. So why do you believe rethinking how MQLs are defined and scored as the most strategic fix that a CMO can make, and what are some of these other key pitfalls that Marketers should avoid, and what should they be doing instead? I mean, let’s, let’s keep the conversation constructive here, right? Gabe Lullo  12:17 So defining and scoring MQLs is by far one of the first things, if not the most important thing, to start with, right? Because that is, again, the start of that assembly line. You know, garbage in, garbage out. And so if we’re not actually understanding why those MQLs are, the MQLs that we are saying they are, and what those triggering events are causing them to be considered. MQLs could truly dictate whether or not we’re receiving garbage into the funnel versus excellence and extraordinary leads and MQLs into the funnel. So again, it’s going back to that ICP, like we discussed earlier. It’s determining, okay, are these worthy and does it make sense to continue this, lead this MQL down the funnel, and will it produce results? Should it even be in the system at all? So knowing that up front, like I said earlier, it’s like the raw material. You know, if you have really bad raw material that you’re using to build your cars, you know, no matter how great it comes out at the other end, it’s not going to be a quality vehicle. So it’s that, it’s the raw material that we need to make sure that’s first and foremost, because it’s the start of the entire process. Christian Klepp  13:29 Yeah, yeah, no, that’s for sure. Because, you know, how many times have you heard that, right? Like the marketing team says, well, we’ve, we’ve got, we’ve generated the MQLs, we’ve passed them on to the sales team now, so we’re good, yeah, but that’s not where it stops, right? Like, so especially if the MQLs are, like, not qualified, right? Gabe Lullo  13:48 No, I couldn’t agree with you more. And again, having sales and marketing work synergistically in that determination is paramount. You know, so many companies, and it’s the old adage, and I think it’s almost a cliche now, because it’s been said so many times that you know, sales is throwing spears over the fence to marketing, and marketing is throwing another spear back to them, and they’re fighting back and forth over this wall. The deal is, you got to break down the wall and start having conversations. And again, sellers have to give feedback on why we’re seeing this to not be the right fit, and Marketers have to be curious and asking what those things may be happening on those conversations, so they can go find the MQLs that that is worthy. Christian Klepp  14:30 Absolutely, absolutely. And on that topic, what are some of these other pitfalls that marketers should be looking out for, and what should they be doing instead? Gabe Lullo  14:39 Yeah, I think what right now is that you have to really understand your channels. You know, a lot of Marketers right now are doubling down on things that may not be producing the results that they have been expecting. Maybe a year from now, two years from now, every company is different, every ICP is different, and every industry is different. I’ll give you an example. You know, if you’re reaching out to sellers and you know, red. Heads of revenue, you have to have a totally different approach than if you’re reaching out to VPs of technology and cyber security. Now that may sound basic, but if you were coming from a company and you’re in your head of marketing, and you’re coming from a company where your ICP and your persona is all tech based companies, or all tech based personas, and you go into a new industry or a new company, and you come with that lens. It’s not the right approach. You know, sellers like to pick up the phone. They think they’re customers. They use the phone all day long. They pick up the phone all the time. Maybe that’s the right channel, right? CTOs (Chief Technology Officers), CIOs (Chief Information Officers), CSOs (Chief Security Officers), they are not usually picking up the phone. Maybe they’re their channels significantly different, and so you have to realize, understand what your persona is, so you can do marketing activities towards that total addressable market that resonate and hit home and get their attention. And it could be just as much as where they live in regards to where, where do they associate with, what, what channel are they living on? Are they people that pick up the phone? Are they ones that live on LinkedIn? Are they ones that go to Instagram? Are they ones that go to conferences? Where is your audience? And know that first and then go talk to them? Christian Klepp  16:10 That’s definitely a great insight. You know it. I know it. The problem is that there’s so many teams out there that skip this part, right? Like that, like that. That detailed breakdown you just gave us about the different let’s call them like, the different personas, the different behaviors, the different channels, like, Why do you think a lot of teams out there skip this part? Is it because of the the time crunch, the pressure to deliver immediately is all of the above? Gabe Lullo  16:37 Yeah, I think, you know, there’s a lot of boardrooms out there. They come out with this unique product, and then with all they do is they do is they look at the TAM, what’s the total addressable market? But that’s like saying, I want to go catch a tuna fish. But you know, let’s just look at the entire ocean. Like, okay, we have to be more specific. Where do the tuna fish actually swim? Where part of Do they like warm water? Do they like the coast? Are they more towards New Zealand, or are they up towards the Massachusetts? So you have to know where your school of fish are. If you want to go fishing, you can’t just look at the entire ocean as the market. And I think narrowing it down to understand patterns and where people are so you can go talk to them is the right approach, versus this spray and pray mentality that I feel marketing has been living in for many, many years, and now it’s becoming more self evident because of AI, right? Because AI can tell us a lot of these things. AI can do a lot of analysis and research, and it’s giving us insights that we’ve never been able to really see before because of the speed and quickness of it. And so I think we are getting to a point, and I’m hopeful that we are more specific with our total addressable markets in new companies specifically that may not have the experience or the capacity like they used to. And I think it’s exciting. Christian Klepp  16:37 Oh Gabe, you just open the door to another question there. Man. Gabe Lullo  16:37 Like, start with an A. Christian Klepp  16:37 Yeah, it starts with an A. But, like, you know, since you brought it up, I’ve got to ask AI, right? Gabe Lullo  16:37 Yeah. Christian Klepp  16:37 And in terms of, like, helping to fix a leaky marketing funnel, how do you from your experience and your perspective, how do you think AI is helpful, and how is it harmful? Gabe Lullo  17:23 Sure. I mean double edged sword, right? We love AI. We accept it. We know it’s here. We’re not scared of it. We’re not running away from it, but we’re also not ripping and replacing things too abruptly with with the implementation of it, either. For instance, I’ll give you real examples. Are we telling AI to go make cold calls? Well, no, it’s illegal, technically. Secondly, are we using it, though, on the flip side, to train our reps on how to effectively handle great questions and objections through an AI sparring partner? Yeah, we are, and it’s amazing at it. So we actually have our reps when they’re brand new and onboarding or launching into a new campaign. We program the robot, the AI right to be able to have conversations in real life time with our reps, to literally spar with them. And it’s like practice. It’s a sparring partner before they go live onto a campaign, and it prepares them immensely before the live show, before they’re before they’re active, right on the campaign. So this is one way we’re doing it. Other ways, obviously email, messaging, obviously personalization, obviously research, you know, pre-call research, account research, determining who’s picking up the phone when they pick up the phone, how many times does it take to call them? You know, time zones? What’s the best time to call them? And it’s crazy what it could do, but it’s really, really helpful. But it’s not a crutch. It’s an assistant, and that’s how we’re approaching it. It’s not replacing human to human communication. If it was. Maybe you and I would just have our AI avatars do this podcast right instead of we’ll be on a beach somewhere, maybe we’ll be there in the future. I’m not predicting it, but I will say there’s a huge, significant role it plays right now, but it is not a role that’s, in my opinion, supposed to replace everything. It can replace a lot, but not everything. Christian Klepp  20:20 Absolutely. I mean, it certainly requires a lot of like, human intervention, right? And it’s and it’s constantly learning, and it’s learning quickly, which I think is to its benefit, to its detriment. And I think that’s, that’s your point as well. There’s a lot of stuff out there that’s AI generated that just looks off, starting with videos even, even like in I don’t know if you’ve dabbled with Google notebook, right? It can, it can take all that content and turn it into an audio file. And it’s scary. How real it sounds. Gabe Lullo  20:54 It is pretty scary. And I have seen tools like that. I love there’s one right now, where it’s actually tracking not even what someone is saying, but how they’re saying it. So tonality, right is a huge piece of communication, as we know, and so it’s literally listening to calls and sales calls, and not just again, we’ve seen it before, like, you know, Gong and others, where it’s telling, hey, maybe say this. Don’t say that, but it’s also giving that score of how they’re delivering that message, which, in my world, is huge because, you know, I could read a script, or I can, you know, have an amazing performance, and that’s how we approach, you know, the way we communicate on a phone call. So that is why we’re so excited. Because there’s new tools coming out all the time that are really, really impactful, for sure. Christian Klepp  21:42 Absolutely, absolutely. So you’ve touched on this a little bit like in the past couple of minutes, but explain how market research and strategy help to develop a solid marketing funnel, not a leaky one. Gabe Lullo  21:55 Yeah. I mean, I think it’s your playbook, right? You know, you have to have a built out playbook, and it’s your guide. And it’s not just important to go to market with a playbook, but it’s also going to market to scale, right? You know, once you get it to work, the ever everything after that is, how do we duplicate and how do we scale? So the playbook is that design is the architecture behind your strategy. So when we do start pouring fuel on the fire and we’re adding people, we’re adding leads, we’re adding workflows, we’re adding everything outside of that, we still go back to the playbook. It’s like the Constitution, right? Everything based off that in our country. I know we’re in different ones, but my point is is, is you have a framework, right, that we go off of and that playbook is so vital to our importance of market research gives us a great understanding of where that playbook is built and how it’s designed and how it’s architected, and that’s how we that’s how we do it here. Christian Klepp  22:55 And even how the playbook can be iterated, right? Because let’s not forget that it’s not written in stone. Gabe Lullo  23:01 Evolving. Yeah, absolutely. I do want to warn people, though, evolve with time. Be patient, right? You know, marketing, sales, development, it’s not a light switch. Yeah, I always say it’s like boiling water, right? So a watch pot technically does boil. It’s just painful to watch. So, but the point is, is that you have to give it enough time to see if that playbook is yielding results. What you don’t want to do is change the play, you know, too many times in the middle of the game, because then you look confused and confused. People do nothing, right? So, yes, is it evolving? Does it pivot? Does it grow? Do you do you change things up, of course. But also you want to do it in a tactful timeline to make sure that it is truly a working playbook or not. Christian Klepp  23:47 Absolutely, absolutely. And you brought something up, and I have to ask this, this next question, it’s… We know, from a marketing point of view, that rolling out these initiatives and seeing the results takes time, yeah, but we’ve had, I’ve certainly had this experience in B2B, that there are people, again, at the top, that don’t have oversight into the day to day, and probably also don’t understand quite how the process works, that don’t have that patience, right, that are telling you, like, hurry up and deliver like, we want results right now. So what do you say to those, I guess the people that are doubting that this initiative needs more time than they think it does. Gabe Lullo  24:30 Yeah. I mean, I think looking at benchmarks and case studies and past results is very important, like I said, Back to the boiling of water. You can show a thermometer as well, like you can see, is it working well? You can put a thermometer in a boiling pot of water and watch the temperature go up, right? And it gives you a clear indication and forecast, if you will, that you’re going to achieve boiling point eventually. It’s not just again, you put the water in and then. And you all of a sudden, measure boiling. You have to measure along the way, and that’s we want to do. So what the ways we do it specifically is, if we’re working on a campaign that is almost a look alike campaign to another company, maybe it’s in the same industry, same ICP, you know, same your size, same scope, we can look at that historical result and say, Hey, by the way, if we do these, these, these and these, you’re going to we’re going to expect boiling point at this time based on a company that’s very similar to yours. Now, is it identical? No, maybe that company has really bad sellers we talked about. Maybe that company doesn’t really care about content and they’re just missing the boat there. Maybe they have a crappy website, like, I don’t, there’s different levers that could, you know, alter the recipe, but we can absolutely make highly educated guesses, as opposed to just trying to wing it or give false expectations. Christian Klepp  25:54 Yeah, yeah, no, that’s absolutely right, all right. I mean, you’ve given us a lot of, like, recommendations, a lot of actionable tips. So walk us through, and I know it varies from company to company and case by case, but walk us through the process of how you actually fix a leaky marketing funnel. Like, what are the steps? What are those key components that absolutely have to be in that process? Gabe Lullo  26:14 Yeah, you have to, you know, inspect what you expect. You have to understand what your messaging is, and you have to A/B test it all the time. I A/B test everything, whether it’s data vendors, whether it’s email messaging, whether it’s LinkedIn content, what you have, obviously mechanisms, depending on what tech you’re working with, what vendors you’re working with, or your history or historical results are to give you grades and scores and A/B testing everything. So if you have, you know campaigns that are running that are successful, you should be able to know how to measure that. That’s what’s so important. So you have to have inspect, inspection tools in place across everything you’re doing on those campaigns to tell you, Hey, this is broken, this is leaky. This isn’t working. Or on the flip side, this is crushing right now. This is totally resonating right now, and we’re loving these, seeing these numbers, and then pour fuel on that fire and focus on that and remove the other ones, and still A/B test, because you always want to keep getting better. So A/B test everything, define the leaks, and then try to fix those leaks as fast as possible. Christian Klepp  27:23 Fantastic, fantastic. And because we’re talking about marketing funnels, I mean, like, I can’t help myself but ask you, okay, but what about metrics? Because that’s something that people want to see, right? But I’m not talking about like, let’s, let’s come up with this like, laundry list of like metrics, and you go down this deep rabbit hole. Like, what are the metrics that you would say, or you would advise B2B Marketers to look at to say, like, okay, we’re trying to fix the leaky marketing funnel here, and these metrics will help you to indicate that there is progress. Gabe Lullo  27:53 Yeah. I mean, it’s harder now than ever before to metric things out, and it’s because of tech that’s kind of getting in the way. You know, for instance, in an email campaign, there’s been some rules and regulations in the last recent years that prevents us from seeing whether or not there’s clicks and opens that are happening on email campaigns. I’ve actually removed many of those triggers completely away from our campaigns, because it’s preventing deliverability, and it’s preventing our ability to keep domains healthy. So there are a lot of moving parts right now that’s happening because of these AI filtration tools. I just heard Google just released that it’s going to now put disclaimers and emails saying that this was written by AI. And so there’s it’s ever involving so depending on I guess when your listeners are hearing this, it may be completely different in a year, but I will tell you that there are definitely things that we need to metric and we need to have KPIs for. But I think the priority of what we used to measure two, three years ago, is significantly different than what we measure today, because of those rules and regulations. So if we’re talking about emails, I want to know what we’re sending, who we’re sending it to, who obviously is responding. What are those responses look like? Is it turning to an actual lead? Are we turning on warm leads, or are we just looking at set meetings? You know, it’s interesting, right? There is only about 2 to 3% of the market ever wants to truly buy, and they’re in buying mode, and I think a lot of companies are just looking for those people, and about 20% of the market is actually interested in buying and we turn that entire segment off. It’s about 10 times more people. But if we can warm the nurture them correctly, and message them correctly, that’s where the rubber meets the road, and that’s where your gold is. I like to analogize everything. So, yeah, when you have a green apple, right? What do you do with the green apple? You put it on the window sill, and then the sun on the windowsill warms it up. Now, that doesn’t mean you just throw out the apple. That means you have a lot of opportunity. You just have. To nurture, and you be patient. And you have to know that timing is everything in business. So if you’re just looking for the red apples, you’re only gonna get 3% if you’re looking for green apples that turn into red apples, now you’re getting 25% so focus on the 25, be patient. Fix those leaky buckets, of course. A/B test, and then then you measure. Christian Klepp  30:20 Yeah or you get yourself an apple orchard. You mentioned one keyword there, nurture, right? I think that’s the one that’ll I see a lot of, like people in sales and even in marketing, right? They just don’t take that time to nurture those leads. They close in. I keep saying they close in for the kill too fast, right? Gabe Lullo  30:44 Yeah. I mean, go back to that food analogy, that the fruit analogy, again. Christian Klepp  30:49 Sure. Gabe Lullo  30:49 I’m on a roll with that. Christian Klepp  30:50 Please. Gabe Lullo  30:50 It’s the low hanging fruit cliche, right? Christian Klepp  30:52 Yes. Gabe Lullo  30:52 Everyone focuses on the low hanging fruit. They’re not focusing on what else is part of that harvest. They’re not focusing on the nurturing. They’re not focused on watering. They’re not focusing on circling back, following up, checking in, providing value in those checks. Not just say, Hey, I’m following up, no, provide value in those seconds, right? And that’s again, that’s where you see excellence happen, you know? And there’s a lot of young, and I don’t mean to be age, but like tenure, people that are experienced, that are in these experience roles right now, and I feel that they’re just trying to get that quick answer and that quick response. And we’re in this like dopamine, like, you know, hit like social media environment right now. Not to go off topic, but I think people are not again, they’re in this microwave society, and they don’t understand the value of nurturing. And if you do and you treat that part seriously, wow, it usually is a windfall at that time. Christian Klepp  31:47 Absolutely, absolutely. It’s an art, a skill, a craft, isn’t it? Right? All of you love, okay, my friend, we come to the point in the conversation where we’re talking about actionable tips, and Gabe, you’ve given us plenty, all right, but just think of this kind of like a recap. If there was somebody listening to this conversation that you and I are having, and you want them to walk away with three to five things that they that they can take action on right now, when it comes to fixing a leaky marketing funnel, what would they be? Gabe Lullo  32:17 Well, I think the best thing is you have to really decide if you have the right people in place, right, and are they? And it doesn’t mean that they are the ones that are going to bring it home. It doesn’t mean that they’re they don’t need support and training and love, like, do they have the commitment? Do they have good experience? Are they willing to roll up their sleeves and get get a little dirty, and if you feel like you have a great team in place of people that are ready to get to work and solve some problems. I think that is literally step one. Step two is, do we have the messaging in the mark, in the ICP nailed down? We really need to know that, because, again, there’s no point of building a campaign if you don’t know who you’re sending it to. And then, thirdly, you really have to make sure that you’re willing to A/B test. It’s hard enough to build a campaign, but it’s much more difficult to build two or three campaigns. Run three campaigns, right as opposed to one, and score each of them to determine what’s working, what’s effective, and what’s not, and then you pivot based on those results. So I think finding a great team is basic and fundamental. Finding a great ice or determining a great ICP is before you build the messaging and then measure the message across multiple campaigns, and then you should be on your way Christian Klepp  33:29 And test, test, test, everything, right? Gabe Lullo  33:34 Yes, it’s great. It could be working. It’s exciting, but maybe there’s a significantly more effective way of doing it, even though it’s still working, and let the data make those decisions for you and drive everything based off data driven decisions, and that’s how you should be operating. Christian Klepp  33:51 Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Here comes the soapbox question, a status quo in your area of expertise that you passionately disagree with and why? Gabe Lullo  34:05 Yeah, I think the big thing right now, and I have to just kind of talk about my space, because you said in my industries, like, there’s a lot of, you know, people out there soapboxing, to be exact, on things that are dead or not. And I will tell you that, you know, cold calling is dead, emailing is dead. You know, LinkedIn is dead, or all of these things and and when you peel back the onion, you notice that those individuals who are saying that users are trying to sell a book or something, and nothing against selling books, but it sounds like there’s a personal agenda and not actual operational intelligence that is dictating what they’re saying. So to your point about testing everything, don’t assume something is not going to work just because someone said it on the internet. Test it and then decide if it’s going to work. And it may surprise you in a big, big way. Christian Klepp  34:56 I truly believe that, man, I truly believe that. I mean to your point. About, like, email being dead. I mean, I did close one client who was a guest on the show, and it took me a year to close, but I closed it through email. Gabe Lullo  35:09 Yeah. Christian Klepp  35:11 Right. And it’s to your point, it’s sending, sending that person articles that were relevant to that person’s industry and saying, like, Hey, I read this the other day, what are your thoughts on this? And here’s my take. What do you think? Gabe Lullo  35:24 That is the best way to do an email, right? You know, we do a lot of content and on social media, we do a lot of podcasting, posts on LinkedIn, but that’s all great, but where the rubber meets the road is you take that post and you send it in an email or a direct message and say, Hey, listen. This made me think of our last conversation, and I really liked the way that this person mentioned this. Do you think you know that there is, is the timing right here to reopen this conversation, and you feel like the problem is still existing in your world, and love to see if we can solve it for you, that type of content, that type of message, that type of verbiage at the right time in a nurture campaign like we discussed, close one business, right? That’s how it works. Christian Klepp  36:08 Absolutely, absolutely okay. Here comes the bonus question, and for those of you that are listening to the audio version, Gabe’s got two guitars right behind him, so I’m just gonna go on a hunch here that he likes playing guitar, right? So the question is, if you had the opportunity to, like, go on a tour with your favorite guitarist/musician, who would it be, and where would you go? Gabe Lullo  36:36 Wow, I love this question. I do play the guitar. I’m a bet big avid music player. Love Rock as well, but all genres, I will say, in real life, we just actually my family, my wife and daughter and I went to go see Oasis reunion tour, which was in Toronto, actually, out of all places. Christian Klepp  36:53 That’s right, you mentioned it. Gabe Lullo  36:54 Yeah, we went to see that. It was epic. Obviously, the brothers have been apart for many years. A lot of drama there. But yeah, you know, I’m old enough to remember their original songs, so it was cool to reminisce and introduce my daughter to that music, which was pretty cool. We’re gonna go see Paul McCartney in a few weeks. He’s on tour now and never seen him or I’m a big fan of The Beatles, and I think that would be really exciting to tour with him, obviously. And I think those are definitely both of those right there kind of sum up the type of music that I resonate with. Christian Klepp  37:26 Amazing, amazing. I just remember, like, this is, this is a couple of years ago. I think he’s already passed away, but Compay Segundo. Gabe Lullo  37:33 Oh yeah. Christian Klepp  37:34 Buena Vista Social Club. And the guy was in his 90s, and they were, they had a concert, and they they brought him up in stage in his wheelchair, helped him get up, get out of that wheelchair, and they gave him that guitar, and off he went, Man, like, Gabe Lullo  37:48 Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing, man, that’s amazing. Christian Klepp  37:53 Gabe, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. So please quick intro to yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you. Gabe Lullo  38:03 Yeah, LinkedIn is the best way to connect with me directly. I post twice a day, every day. We’re very bullish with our content. There’s a lot of free material there. We have a newsletter, so please take a look at that, and if you like what you see, and he heard today, you know, reach out, and I’ll definitely be responsive. And you know, anyone who is looking or struggling with the after-sales motion, which are after marketing motion, that sales development function, that’s where we play, and we’d love to look at what you’re looking for and see how we can help. Christian Klepp  38:33 Sounds good. Gabe, once again, thank you so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Gabe Lullo  38:38 Thanks, Christian. Christian Klepp  38:39 All right. Bye for now.

In this episode of Disruption/Interruption, marketing veteran Ed Locher pulls back the curtain on B2B marketing's biggest lie: that the MQL machine actually drives growth. As CMO of PureFacts Financial Solutions and author of "Digital Transformation: People, Process and Technology," Ed reveals why 15 years of marketing automation created a sugar rush that's now crashing, and how AI can help fix it without repeating the same mistakes. This is a no-holds-barred conversation about emotional connection, the 95% of buyers marketers ignore, and why marketing tenure averages just 18 months. Four Key Takeaways: The MQL Mirage Is Built on a Lie 8:56Marketing automation promised accountability through MQLs, but overdelivering on MQL targets quarter after quarter never translated to actual revenue growth. The entire system targets only the 5% of the market ready to buy right now—ignoring the 95% who need demand creation, not demand capture. B2B Buying Committees Have Tripled in Size 16:30The buying committee for enterprise B2B purchases has exploded from 5 people to 16. You can't build credibility and trust with 16 stakeholders through email sequences—you need emotional connection and personalized storytelling that speaks to each person's specific drivers (CFO cares about ROI, compliance cares about regulations, operations cares about not making headlines). AI Raises the Floor, Not the Ceiling 29:59AI protects terrible marketers from themselves by raising the quality floor, but it hasn't raised the bar for great marketing. The real opportunity lies 3-4 standard deviations above the mean—where human empathy, emotional triggers, and genuine understanding of customer pain create outsized impact that AI can't replicate. Marketing Attribution Is a Myth 44:13There will never be a "cast iron steel rod of attribution" connecting marketing activities directly to purchases. Marketers who work for leadership that doesn't understand this are doomed to 18-month tenures, chasing MQL targets that deliver short-term sugar rushes followed by revenue crashes. The rare CEO or investor who recognizes this broken motion is the problem—not the marketer—creates space for real growth. Quote of the Show (44:13):"There will never be a cast iron steel rod of attribution that says marketing did X, which led to this person buying something. It just doesn't work that way.” — Ed Locher Join our Anti-PR newsletter where we’re keeping a watchful and clever eye on PR trends, PR fails, and interesting news in tech so you don't have to. You're welcome. Want PR that actually matters? Get 30 minutes of expert advice in a fast-paced, zero-nonsense session from Karla Jo Helms, a veteran Crisis PR and Anti-PR Strategist who knows how to tell your story in the best possible light and get the exposure you need to disrupt your industry. Click here to book your call: https://info.jotopr.com/free-anti-pr-eval Ways to connect with Ed Locher: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edlocher/ Company Website: https://purefacts.com How to get more Disruption/Interruption: Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/eccda84d-4d5b-4c52-ba54-7fd8af3cbe87/disruption-interruption Apple Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disruption-interruption/id1581985755 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6yGSwcSp8J354awJkCmJlDSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

MQLs are dead…or are they? Daniel sits down with Emily Popson, VP of Marketing at CallRail, to unpack the biggest pieces of bad advice marketers keep seeing on LinkedIn and what the real truth is behind MQLs, attribution, dark social, and AI-powered data. Emily shares: - Why the war on MQLs is misleading thousands of marketers  - How to fix your lead definitions without rebuilding your entire ops system - Why attribution isn't “garbage.” And, what metrics do CMOs actually want to see? The answer might be the ones you've been leaving out.  This episode is for Marketers who are tired of LinkedIn hot takes and want to understand what actually drives revenue.  CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. https://www.callrail.com/proveit?utm_campaign=q4_2025_marketing_millennials_podcast&utm_medium=thirdparty_advertising&utm_source=marketingmillennials   Follow Emily: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilypopson/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

A CMO Confidential Interview with Tom Stein, the Chairman and founder of Stein and Jann Schwarz, Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation at LinkedIn and founder of Think tank, The B2B Institute, who join us to discuss the 2025 Brand-to- Demand Maturity and the B2B Buyability studies. Tom and Jann share results showing the need to integrate brand and performance marketing in an era when the marketing funnel has collapsed needs fundamental re-thinking and Marketing Qualified Leads (MQLs) are still a key measure (in spite of data showing they've lost their usefulness). Tom and Jann explain why nearly all survey respondents acknowledge a problem but only 20% are taking action. Key topics include: why a good product or service are now "table stakes”; how buyer confidence, human connection and customer experience have become key Buyability differentiators; and the belief that B2B creative is way behind B2C on average. Tune in to hear why “demand-focused marketing" was one of the greatest brand misdirects of all time and a fabulous story of an alter boy accidentally dropping the Baby Jesus. The Truth Behind the Curtain in B2B: Brand + Demand, MQLs, and “Buyability” with Tom Stein & Jan SchwartzDescription:Mike Linton sits down with Tom Stein (Stein) and Jan Schwartz (LinkedIn's B2B Institute) to unpack new ANA research on brand–demand maturity and a bold operating model they call “buyability.” They cover why 80% of marketers say integration matters but aren't doing it, why MQLs are failing modern buying groups, how to financialize creative and brand, and what CEOs/boards should actually measure to accelerate revenue. Chapters:00:00 Intro & guest setup02:36 Why a brand–demand maturity study now05:36 The 80% integration gap07:17 Org design: why teams move slowly09:36 MQLs under fire (and better alternatives)10:45 Creative quality in B2B: reality check13:34 ServiceNow, Idris Elba, and distinctive assets15:01 The CEO/CFO/Board disconnect19:00 “Buyability” explained: becoming easier to buy22:12 Brand as a full-funnel commercial driver23:40 The funnel is broken; AI ups the stakes26:59 Playing offense: fewer, better buyer-group leads28:20 Financializing the case for change29:56 The budget stat that shocked everyone31:41 What to do now: category fame, trust, real metrics34:41 Funniest stories and practical parting advice37:35 Wrap & where to find more episodesTags:B2B marketing,brand and demand,buyability,MQL,pipeline velocity,CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Tom Stein,Jan Schwartz,LinkedIn B2B Institute,ANA,B2B brand,B2B demand gen,marketing measurement,go to market,Salesforce,ServiceNow,Idris Elba,B2B creative,category fame,board metrics,CFO,CEO,CRO,sales alignment,MarTech,lead gen,buyer groups,brand strategy,revenue growthSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Simple 3-Step B2B Demand Generation Strategy for 2026

In the first ever live edition of How to Grow a CMO, we bring together four heavyweight marketing leaders to unpack career journeys, the realities of modern B2B marketing, and how to survive (and improve) annual planning season. Host Alastair Hussain interviews:Carolyn Henry - most recently Regional CMO of the Americas at Intel, leading 60+ marketers across consumer, commercial, gaming, data centre, AI, telco and enterprise, and a board member of the Silicon Valley Education Foundation.Kelly Waldher - CMO at Palo Alto Networks, responsible for global brand, demand, field and comms, formerly CMO at Zendesk with prior leadership roles at Google, Microsoft and Qualtrics, and an HBS MBA.Negin Kamangar - a career CMO with 20+ years in high-growth SaaS, including leading Parchment through an $835m acquisition by Instructure, now also a limited partner at Stage 2 Capital and a Chicago Booth MBA.Jon Miller - co-founder of Marketo and Engagio, now building a new stealth AI-era marketing platform. He writes extensively on LinkedIn about buying groups vs MQLs, brand as a revenue driver, and hosts the Marketing on the Rocks video series.

In this OnBase episode, host Chris Moody reconnects with marketing visionary Jon Miller for a deep dive into the evolution of B2B marketing and the transformative role of artificial intelligence in shaping the future of go-to-market strategy.Jon shares his remarkable journey, from studying physics to co-founding Marketo and Engagio, joining Demandbase, and now launching his next venture at the cutting edge of AI. He reflects on the lessons learned from past technology revolutions, drawing parallels between the early internet era and today's AI boom.Listeners gain an inside look at how AI is fundamentally changing both software innovation and buyer behavior, why marketers must shift from quantity to quality-driven personalization, and what it takes to build organizations that thrive in an AI-first world.This episode is packed with insights for anyone navigating marketing's AI transformation, from creative storytellers to data-driven tacticians.Key TakeawaysThe Biggest Shift Since the Internet AI isn't just another tech trend, it's as transformative as the rise of the internet. We're entering a new era where software can do things we never imagined, enabling businesses that couldn't exist before.The “Jagged Frontier” of AI AI excels at some tasks and fails at others. The key is daily experimentation, understanding where AI amplifies your strengths and where human oversight is indispensable.From Quantity to Quality The goal isn't to send more emails, it's to deliver more relevant experiences. AI's true power lies in helping marketers achieve genuine one-to-one personalization through smarter orchestration, not mass automation.The Human – AI Partnership Future success lies in collaboration: humans provide creativity and empathy; AI handles data, optimization, and orchestration. Together, they create outcomes neither could achieve alone.Culture Determines AI Success Technology adoption starts with leadership. Organizations must build AI fluency into their culture, encouraging training, experimentation, and open sharing of prompts and insights.Emotion Drives Storytelling Even in B2B, emotion matters. Great storytelling taps into curiosity, excitement, and drama, whether through stealth launches, community intrigue, or relatable human experiences.Marketing Measurement Is Broken B2B marketers are still judged on MQLs and short-term results, despite the nonlinear reality of buying behavior. We need new ways to measure marketing that reflect its true long-term impact.Quotes“Don't use AI like a faster typewriter. Use it as a new form of intelligence that helps you think better.”Tech recommendationsDescript – For seamless AI-powered video and podcast editing.Crosby.ai – An AI-enabled law firm combining automation with human legal review.Resource recommendationsBooksThe Advantage by Patrick Lencioni – A guide to building healthy, high-performing organizations.Setting the Table by Danny Meyer – Lessons on culture and leadership from the hospitality world.Turn the Ship Around by L. David Marquet – Empowerment and leadership through intentional communication.NewsletterAlmost Timely Newsletter by Chris Penn.Kieran Flanahan Newsletter on Medium.Shout-outsChris Penn – AI strategist and co-founder of Trust Insights.Kieran Flanagan – SVP, Marketing, AI & GTM (SVP) and B2B growth expert and AI prompt innovator.Kathleen Schwab – Author of Marketing in the Great Big Messy World.About the GuestJon Miller is a marketing technology pioneer and serial founder. He co-founded Marketo, Engagio, and later served as CMO of Demandbase, helping redefine how B2B companies go to market. Now building his next AI-focused startup, Jon also advises tech companies on strategy and growth. A frequent keynote speaker and author of The Definitive Guides to ABM and Marketing Automation, he's been recognized as one of the world's top B2B marketers.Connect with Jon.

Good Friction vs Bad Friction in B2B Marketing: Stop Wasting Buyer EffortToo many teams removed every barrier and called it “buyer-first.” The result? Leaky funnels, vanity MQLs, and zero commercial insight. In this episode, we show how to use good friction to earn trust, capture context, and actually help buyers make better decisions (without annoying them).We (George Coudounaris & Kevin Chen) break down where friction belongs in your buyer journey, when gating makes sense, and how to turn forms, events, and content into useful market intel. We also dig into progressive profiling and cataloguing so Sales get timing, permission, and real-world context they can act on.We'll show standout moments like: why you should stop gating case studies, how to design “good friction” for community signups and workshops, and a simple green-yellow-red scoring method to fix bad friction fast.Tune in and learn:+ The difference between good vs bad friction (and how to spot each)+ When to gate (community, events, newsletters) and when not to (case studies)+ How to use progressive profiling to “catalogue” vendors, renewal dates, and permission to follow upIf you're a small B2B team, this episode is a must-watch. You'll walk away with a friction map you can fix this week, a scoring system to prioritise changes, and a smarter way to feed Sales with timing-based insights.-----------------------------------------------------

How can B2B marketers succeed when every deal involves 11 or more stakeholders?This special Hard Corps Marketing Show takeover episode features an episode from the Connect To Market podcast, hosted by Casey Cheshire. In this conversation, Casey sits down with Adam Needles, CEO and Co-Founder of ANNUITAS, Inc., to unpack the game-changing concept of Buyer Unit Demand (BUD). Adam challenges the outdated reliance on MQLs and ABM and introduces a new framework for engaging the full buying unit, with multiple stakeholders who have diverse roles and needs throughout the journey.He shares how marketers can design conversation tracks that align with real-world buying dynamics and explains why buyer-led orchestration, not sales-led tactics, is the key to driving meaningful engagement and revenue. Adam also discusses the organizational shifts and mindset changes required to fully adopt this buyer-first approach.In this episode, we cover:Why MQLs and ABM fall short in complex B2B buying environmentsHow to map conversation tracks around stakeholder needs and behaviorThe importance of aligning marketing, sales, and automation tools to the buyer journeyWhy focus beats scale when prioritizing content and engagement strategies

We're joined by guest Niall Sullivan to discuss why MQLs (at least the traditional way of defining MQLs) suck and how to shift to more demand gen and buyer-friendly marketing practices. We chat about: • Moving away from gating content and focusing on educating buyers• Measuring marketing's impact through pipeline and revenue metrics instead of MQLs• Showing more product details and UI to help buyers understand the value• Creating content that serves prospects, not just internal team needs• Setting proper expectations when making big marketing strategy shiftsNiall drinks a traditional British ale

Ashley Lewin has audited 30+ companies in her career and seen the same pattern: marketing teams stuck chasing MQLs while revenue stalls. In this episode, Carolyn and Trevor dig into Ashley's perspective on why MQLs keep organizations trapped in short-term thinking, and how she's applying those lessons now as Head of Marketing at Aligned.We talk through what it takes to stand up a marketing function from scratch at a hybrid PLG + sales-assisted company, why implementing HubSpot's Lead object was a foundational bet, and how “fail fast” disqualification changed the way BDRs and sales managers manage their pipeline. Ashley also shares her playbook for winning executive buy-in: showing CEOs a predictable growth equation that replaces lead volume with qualified pipeline and product activation.What You'll Learn:Why 30+ audits taught Ashley that MQLs create waste, not growth.How to split the funnel: PLG activations vs. sales-assisted pipeline.The power of clean infrastructure: standing up a true lead object in HubSpot.Why “fail fast” leads to better conversion, stronger feedback loops, and less waste.How to navigate culture change so sales isn't afraid to close lost.Why exec scorecards (not dashboards) determine whether change sticks.If your growth plan still relies on lead math, you're running on outdated assumptions. Ashley shows how to build a system that actually scales revenue, not just reporting.

If your outbound is optimised for meetings, not conversations, you're burning cash and trust.We sit down with Joey Gilkey (CEO, Titan X) and Adem Manderovic (Closed Circuit Selling, CRO School) to rebuild B2B outbound so it actually drives revenue. We unpack why the SDR-AE factory failed, how to get 25% connect rates, and how to use first-party signals to guide timing, ads, and follow up.Joey shows why he pays SDRs to create completed conversations and rigorous disposition buckets. Adem explains cataloguing and channel validation so marketing stops guessing and starts planning around real timing. We dig into audience activation using opt-in texts and VSLs, and why “buyer intent” data isn't the shortcut you think it is.Tune in and learn:+ A practical B2B outbound strategy built on conversations and 6 disposition buckets+ Why the SDR-AE model and Predictable Revenue broke outbound (and what replaces it)+ Why pipeline coverage and meeting quotas mislead teams, and what to measure insteadThis is a must-watch if you're a B2B revenue leader. Stop chasing low-value meetings and start engineering high-value conversations that inform ads, timing, and deals.-----------------------------------------------------

If your board asks “Why is pipeline down?” and your opportunity dashboards only say marketing-sourced vs. SDR-sourced (AKA the four-funnel model), you're stuck with surface-level data and left guessing at fixes instead of diagnosing the problem. The real story lives between engagement and opportunity, the unmeasured factory floor where prospecting happens (or dies). In this episode, Carolyn and Amber show how to rip the lid off that black box, swap vanity volume for "causal" metrics, and find the repeatable patterns that actually manufacture pipeline.Expect blunt takes, practical questions to bring to RevOps tomorrow, and real outcomes from teams who've made the shift (e.g., win rates jumping from ~13% to ~24% and easier budget approvals once the black box is illuminated).What You'll Learn:[02:20] Why “source” reporting hides the truth (and fuels misalignment)[08:00] The Pipeline Black Box: measuring the in-between (triggers → first meeting → opp)[15:00] Pattern-spotting: sequences that create pipeline vs. waste[17:30] Visual walkthrough: opening the black box[20:55] Prospecting as its own lifecycle: timing, activity load, DQs, velocity[26:10] From more leads to more lift (conversion, speed, win rate 13%→24%)[36:00] Turning visibility into stronger board stories & budget wins[38:25] 3 questions to expose your black box this weekWho This Episode ForCROs, CMOs, Demand leaders, and RevOps owners ready to graduate from MQLs/last-touch to a factory-style measurement system.

Whatagraph has evolved from a bootstrap marketing reporting tool to a comprehensive marketing intelligence platform processing data from 12+ sources for marketing teams globally. With over $10 million in funding and a decade of iteration, the Lithuania-based company recently launched "Whatagraph 3.0"—a fundamental shift from pure sales-led to hybrid PLG motion. In this episode of Category Visionaries, Justas Malinauskas shares the technical and strategic decisions behind their transformation from agency tool to enterprise marketing intelligence platform, including their multi-agentic AI implementation and the SEO strategy that generates 500+ MQLs monthly. Topics Discussed: Technical architecture evolution from reporting automation to full-stack marketing intelligence Strategic pivot from sales-led to hybrid PLG/sales-led motion triggered by mission misalignment Advanced SEO methodology using competitor pain point analysis and search behavior reverse engineering AI implementation using multi-agentic systems rather than simple LLM integration Lithuania's bootstrap-first ecosystem and knowledge-sharing networks among unicorn companies Go-to-market evolution across three distinct phases over 10 years GTM Lessons For B2B Founders: Engineer time-to-value as your primary PLG enabler, not feature breadth: Whatagraph achieved 5-minute time-to-value from data connection to dashboard generation—versus the industry standard of hours—by rebuilding their onboarding around AI-powered automation rather than manual drag-and-drop configuration. Justas notes this wasn't just UI optimization but fundamental product architecture changes: "It's basically a lot of knowledge from our last 10 years...we're able to build it like really multi-agentic platform which helps to build those things in steps, not just like drop something randomly." For PLG success, optimize your technical stack for immediate value delivery, not comprehensive feature exposure. Weaponize competitor technical limitations through content strategy: Rather than competing on generic "best marketing tool" keywords, Whatagraph dominated by creating authoritative content around specific competitor pain points. Their "Looker Studio being slow" content strategy captured high-volume searches from frustrated users by actually helping solve the problem while positioning their technical advantages. Justas explains: "The biggest problem was it's actually very slow...when we have everything in house we can make things like very quick and speedy compared to there." Target technical pain points your architecture inherently solves rather than fighting brand-to-brand keyword battles. Align your ICP strategy with your actual technical capabilities, not market perception: Whatagraph's shift to hybrid PLG wasn't market-driven but mission-driven. Justas realized their technical product could serve smaller organizations, but their sales-led approach artificially excluded them: "We were not empowering in the first place people, everyone to make those data driven decisions fast...we were not allowing everyone into the product even if our product was allowing to." Audit whether your go-to-market motion matches your product's actual technical capabilities and addressable market, not just your current revenue optimization. Build SEO moats through search behavior psychology, not keyword tools: Whatagraph's SEO dominance came from Justas thinking like customers in problem-solving mode rather than using standard keyword research. He reverse-engineered the complete buyer journey: "People go through a very much regular process...they search for a problem...find a blog post...find a product...competition...pricing...reviews...then actually buy the product." They attempted to own multiple touchpoints in this journey through strategic content placement across different domains. Map your customer's actual research psychology, not just search volumes. Implement freemium with full core functionality, not feature limitations: Whatagraph's new freemium tier includes their complete AI-powered report generation ("Whatagraph IQ") with only data source limitations, not feature restrictions. This approach lets small users experience the full product value while creating natural upgrade triggers as they grow. Justas notes: "All the core functionality...you're able to talk with your data within AI capabilities and ask questions about your data as you would pay a couple of thousands a month." Design freemium around usage scaling, not capability restrictions, to demonstrate full product value.   //   Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe.  www.GlobalTalent.co   //   Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM   

In this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn joins the Growth Activated Podcast as a guest to unpack one of the biggest blind spots in GTM today: what actually happens before an opportunity is created.99% of GTM teams still can't see this stage clearly. It's the “grey area” where SDRs and BDRs are grinding—sending emails, making calls, chasing signals, running sequences—all in the hope of booking a meeting that turns into pipeline.The problem? None of this activity is tracked in a clear, causal way. Leaders only see pipeline “sources” (marketing, sales, SDR), which hides the bigger story. Pipeline isn't a source—it's a chain reaction. A trigger sparks sales work, a series of events unfolds, and only some of those reliably convert to opportunities. Most of it? Invisible. That's why pipeline creation still feels like guesswork.Carolyn explains why source-based reporting and last-touch attribution keep teams stuck, and how to instrument the pre-opportunity “factory floor” with simple metrics that expose what's really working. Key Topics in this Episode:[00:10] Carolyn's journey: 4x Head of Marketing → CEO of Passetto[07:30] The Pipeline Black Box: why pre-opp activity is invisible[09:20] Using triggers to understand what really starts sales work[14:00] Inside the factory: connect rate, time-to-meeting, qual rate, DQs[22:40] Client insight: MQLs drain resources[27:50] KPIs to rethink: drop department-source, own pipeline as a system[30:45] For marketing leaders: accountability over defense[41:55] Annual planning: fight inertia, build visibility first[44:50] Where to find Carolyn & learn more about Passetto—This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!In this episode of OpsCast, hosted by Michael Hartmann and powered by MarketingOps.com, we're joined by Ellie Cary, Senior Demand Generation Manager at StarTree. Ellie shares her experience navigating marketing performance challenges, including what happens when teams hit MQL goals but still face cuts, and why ROI visibility has become critical for MOps leaders.Ellie discusses the limitations of attribution and reporting, how over-engineered models can create complexity, and what it takes to simplify processes while improving impact. She also shares insights on customer marketing, retention, and how MOps professionals can make their work more visible and strategic across the organization.In this episode, you'll learn:How to connect marketing performance to business outcomesThe risks of overcomplicated attribution and how to simplify itThe importance of foundational marketing processes for measurable ROIStrategies for MOps teams to communicate effectively with non-technical stakeholdersThis episode is ideal for marketing operations, demand generation, and growth professionals looking to strengthen their impact and visibility in the organization. Tune in for Ellie's actionable guidance on making MOps work matter.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals Join us at MOps-Apalooza: https://mopsapalooza.com/Save 10% with code opscast10Support the show

This episode of the OnBase Podcast delivers a masterclass in building modern go-to-market strategies with ABM at their heart. Host Paul Gibson talks with Robert Norum about why a focused, account-based approach is no longer optional for B2B organizations—it's essential. Robert breaks down the journey from traditional, volume-based marketing to a sophisticated, tiered ABM model that aligns the entire organization.The conversation uncovers the most common challenges businesses face when adopting ABM, from securing leadership buy-in to managing expectations and moving beyond outdated MQL metrics. Robert provides a clear roadmap for success, emphasizing that ABM is not just a marketing tactic but a company-wide directive that unites sales, marketing, and customer success into a single, powerful growth engine.Listen to the full episode to gain the confidence and clarity needed to make ABM your primary GTM strategy.Key TakeawaysABM is the Go-to-Market StrategyFor enterprise organizations, ABM should be the central GTM strategy, not just another marketing program.Focus is EverythingAn account-based approach forces you to concentrate your budget, resources, and people on the accounts that truly matter..Alignment is Non-NegotiableSuccess depends on creating a "SWAT team" across sales, marketing, and customer success, all working toward shared account goals.Pilots Can Be a TrapTreating ABM as a short-term pilot is a recipe for failure; it requires long-term investment and commitment from the top down.Measure What MattersMove beyond MQLs and vanity metrics. Focus on moving the dial within target accounts, expanding your footprint, and creating real pipeline opportunities..Quotes"ABM is the glue that has the potential to really connect organizations and break down silos across different teams"Best Moments (04:37) – The Evolution of ABM: Robert discusses how ABM grew from a one-to-one approach for large enterprises to a scalable, multi-tiered strategy.(09:05) – The Case for Focus: Why concentrating on high-value accounts is the most critical decision a B2B business can make today.(20:12) – The Biggest ABM Challenge: The most common mistake companies make is diving in without defining what ABM means for their organization and getting leadership buy-in.(24:17) – The End of Silos: How an account-based approach fosters an equal partnership between sales and marketing.(30:50) – Winning Over Leadership: Strategies for building a compelling business case for ABM and getting the C-suite excited.(42:40) – The Role of AI: How AI will accelerate ABM, but human intelligence remains essential to brief, interpret, and quality-check the output.Resource RecommendationsBooks:Account-Based Marketing: The Definitive Handbook for B2B Marketers by Bev Burgess.Shout-OutsJon Miller - MarTech entrepreneur,Co-founder at Marketo and EngagioMarta George - Head of EMEA AMB Programmes, Ping Identity.Lianne O'Connor - Global Field & ABM Marketing Director, Fluke Corporation.Andy Johnson - Founder and Director of Client Strategy, HUT 3.Charlotte Graham-Cumming - CEO, Ice Blue Sky Corporation.About the GuestRobert Norum is a B2B Marketer with over 30 years experience. He has worked in magazine publishing, IT distribution, marketing agencies and for the last 20 years as an independent marketing consultant. During this time he has worked on brand, demandgen, channel, ecommerce and sales enablement. For the last 10 years he had specialised in ABM working with a number of leading agencies and directly for wide cross-section of global brands. Since 2017, he has delivered the ABM Essentials training course for B2B Marketing training over 750 marketing professionals in the process. Robert has also been the ABM and Demand Strategy Expert on Propolis since its launch.Connect with Robert.

Most GTM teamstoday are missing targets because they're simply measuring the wrong things. In this episode, Carolyn and Amber unpack why attribution is a mirage (it only shows the lucky 2% that become opportunities) and why the MQL hamster wheel keeps smart teams stuck optimizing a tiny slice of reality. We dig into the pre-pipeline “factory floor,” show how to expose the messy middle, and explain why “more volume” isn't a strategy—it's a cash leak.You'll hear concrete ways to replace vanity conversion stats with a causal view of attempts → connects → meetings → opps → DQs (with reasons), what to do about pipeline shock when you tighten scoring, and why pipeline needs a single owner (hint: not “marketing-sourced”). We also talk about modular change vs. big-bang transformations, and where attribution actually belongs (as seasoning, not the main ingredient), dig into where attribution actually belongs in GTM measurement (spoiler: it's seasoning, not the protein), and explain why modular change beats waiting for a full-scale transformation.What You'll Learn:Attribution ≠ answers: It validates the 2-5% that convert and hides the waste in the 98%.Kill the MQL hamster wheel: Measure the journey, not just MQL→SQL%.Instrument the factory floor: Person-level steps that predict pipeline (and the drop-offs to fix).Volume lies: “Do more dials” is a 2012 play—engineer repeatable patterns instead.Pipeline shock is healthy: Fewer junk opps → higher win rate and better CAC.One owner for pipeline: Align Sales + Marketing on quality pipeline, not credit.When to use attribution: After you fix data hygiene and pre-pipeline tracking.If your dashboards keep telling you to “get more leads” or “add more dials,” you're staring at the pipeline mirage. Break free from the hamster wheel, shine a light on the messy middle, and finally see what's really driving, or draining, your revenue.This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

Most B2B revenue engines stall out. In this episode, we break down why — and how to build one that actually scales.Paul Perrett (CEO, Firmable) joins us with Adem Manderovic (Closed Circuit Selling, CRO School) to map ARR model, the 10-line economic engine, and why cataloguing and ecosystem activation beat brute-force outbound.We unpack how to work backwards from revenue goals, align Sales, Marketing and CS around market validations, and build compounding demand with brand and partners.Tune in and learn:+ The 10-line economic model behind a scalable B2B revenue engine+ How to replace MQLs with market validations and fix SDR incentives+ Ecosystem activation plays that compound trust and pipelineIf you're a B2B marketer in a small team, this is a must-watch. It's practical, numbers-first, and shows how to turn brand, SDRs, inbound, and partners into one working B2B revenue engine.-----------------------------------------------------

When small-market teams face off against deep-pocketed competitors, winning means rewriting the rules of the game. That's exactly what happened in Moneyball, where the Oakland A's turned to unconventional metrics and overlooked talent to outsmart the league's biggest spenders. In this episode, we explore the marketing lessons behind it with special guest Scott Greenwald, CMO at Linedata.Together, we dive into how B2B marketers can rethink the metrics that matter, compete asymmetrically against larger rivals, align teams around bold strategies, and tell stories that stick, all while staying credible, prepared, and ready to adapt.About our guest, Scott GreenwaldAt Linedata, Scott's tenure as Chief Marketing Officer has been marked by the successful leadership of a dynamic, multi-lingual team and the creation of transformative digital marketing strategies. Our efforts have resulted in a staggering 600% year-over-year increase in web traffic, contributing significantly to a 20% generation of the sales pipeline.Scott's role extends to overseeing the marketing budget and launching a new CRM and Marketing Automation tool, which has streamlined Linedata's pipeline review process and accelerated the sales cycle. With a focus on driving market visibility and thought leadership, Scott's strategic campaigns across key global markets have empowered Linedata to cement its presence in the competitive financial services industry.What B2B Companies Can Learn From Moneyball:Focus on the outcomes that matter.  In Moneyball, the point wasn't to sign the flashiest “five-tool” players; it was to score runs. The same is true in marketing. Scott says, “In the end, it's how many of the MQLs turn into opportunities or new business? And that's what we focus on.” Metrics that look good in a report mean nothing if they don't turn into real pipeline and closed deals. In B2B, your scoreboard isn't impressions or clicks, it's revenue.Credibility over volume in content. AI makes it easy to crank out more content than ever before, but more isn't always better. “If we suddenly increased our, our, our output fivefold, we, we would lose that credibility,” Scott says. His team uses AI to adapt and reformat high-quality core pieces, not flood the market with fluff. Your audience notices when your content is consistent, credible, and worth their time—and they notice just as fast when it's not.Compete asymmetrically. The A's couldn't outspend the Yankees or Red Sox, so they had to outthink them. That meant challenging every “sacred cow” in baseball and finding value others overlooked. Scott explains, “You can't come in here and say, I'm going to transform this marketing organization into what I had before… you have to assess the talent pool [and] review the best way of spending the marketing budgets you have.” In marketing, the same rule applies: when you can't match your competitors' budget, you win by rewriting the playbook.Quote“It is our responsibility as storytellers of not just giving the business what they want, but also giving the audience what they need to hear.”Time Stamps[00:55] Meet Scott Greenwal, CMO at Linedata[01:04] Why Moneyball?[06:45] Behind the Scenes of Moneyball[10:00] B2B Marketing Lessons from Moneyball[31:51] The Importance of Storytelling[37:18] The Role of Communication in Change Management[41:02] The Evolution of Marketing Automation[45:30] Balancing Content Quality and Quantity[47:00 Final Thoughts & TakeawaysLinksConnect with Scott on LinkedInLearn more about LinedataAbout Remarkable!Remarkable! is created by the team at Caspian Studios, the premier B2B Podcast-as-a-Service company. Caspian creates both nonfiction and fiction series for B2B companies. If you want a fiction series check out our new offering - The Business Thriller - Hollywood style storytelling for B2B. Learn more at CaspianStudios.com. In today's episode, you heard from Ian Faison (CEO of Caspian Studios) and Meredith Gooderham (Head of Production). Remarkable was produced this week by Jess Avellino, mixed by Scott Goodrich, and our theme song is “Solomon” by FALAK. Create something remarkable. Rise above the noise.

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!In this episode of Ops Cast by MarketingOps.com (powered by The MO Pros), hosts Michael Hartmann, Mike Rizzo, and Naomi Liu delve into one of the most discussed shifts in B2B marketing and revenue operations: the evolving roles of Marketing Qualified Leads (MQLs) and Marketing Qualified Accounts (MQAs).In this episode, you'll learn:Why the traditional MQL model may be falling short and where MQAs step in.How to realign marketing and sales around shared intent signals.Common pitfalls when transitioning from MQLs to MQAs (and how to avoid them).Practical advice on shifting measurement frameworks to reflect real buyer behavior.To unpack this timely topic, they're joined by two accomplished leaders in RevOps and marketing strategy:Andrea Frazier, Senior Revenue Operations Technical Consultant, is known for her expertise in building scalable systems and aligning sales, marketing, and data. What makes her presence special on this podcast is that she will be a part of the Mopsapalooza as a speaker.Jessica Fewless, VP of Marketing and Partnerships, has deep experience in ABM, demand gen, and full-funnel program strategy.Together, they challenge long-standing definitions of buying intent and discuss how teams can evolve from lead-focused metrics to account-based signals that drive more aligned, strategic growth.Tune in now, because whether you're in Marketing Ops, RevOps, or Demand Gen, this episode offers an expert-led perspective on what it means to qualify, measure, and act on intent in today's B2B environment.Check out our complete toolkit for helping you move from MQLs to MQAs!Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals Visit UTM.io and tell them the Ops Cast team sent you. Join us at MOps-Apalooza: https://mopsapalooza.com/Save 10% with code opscast10Support the show

In this episode, we're joined by Sander van Gelderen, CMO at Effectory, an employee listening solution platform helping organizations measure and improve engagement, enablement, and productivity at scale, serving 700+ recurring customers across the Benelux, DACH, and now the Nordics. We spoke with Sander about how Effectory transformed from a project-based consultancy into a recurring revenue SaaS business and how his team is reshaping their go-to-market motion through Account-Based Experience (ABX). The goal? Closing the gap between marketing and sales, reducing waste, and targeting only the accounts truly in-market. Here are some of the key questions we address: What is ABX and how does it differ from ABM in practice? How do you unify marketing and sales targeting to remove friction? What were the warning signs that the traditional MQL model wasn't working? How do you implement ABX without losing velocity or your team's trust? What process and tech changes are required to make ABX work? How should marketing compensation evolve in an ABX world? What are the real trade-offs and pitfalls no one talks about?

Are MQLs really dead, or just evolving?In this episode of The Hard Corps Marketing Show, I sat down with Melissa McCready, Founder and CEO of Navigate Consulting Group. With decades of experience in marketing automation, customer success, and growth operations, Melissa is a recognized thought leader and award-winning expert in her field.Melissa unpacks the evolving role of MQLs and why they're far from obsolete. She explains how engagement scores and persona alignment still make them vital to marketing strategies when used correctly. We also explore the rise of growth operations as a strategic business function, the need for detailed AI implementation, and how leaders can stay ahead by embracing trends like generative engine optimization (GEO).In this episode, we cover:Why MQLs still matter, and how they're evolving, not disappearingWhat it means to train AI like a new team member using SOPs and expert inputWhy growth operations is broader than revenue ops and demands a seat at the tableHow early adoption of GEO can give you a competitive edgeWhy mentorship, community, and giving back elevate your career and credibilityIf you're ready to rethink traditional marketing operations and strategically prepare for an AI-powered future, this episode is full of actionable insights you won't want to miss!

In this episode of Executive Conversations, Maeva Cifuentes speaks with Dan Chapman, VP of sales and marketing at DocNow. Dan tells the story of walking into a startup that was generating one or two MQLs a month, then building a 90-day lead-gen engine that lit up the entire pipeline. He explains how owning both sales and marketing forces a single-funnel mindset, why every project must prove its revenue impact fast, and how he justifies brand spend by showing that one closed deal covers the cost. Dan shares his “north star” spreadsheet of thirty ranked experiments, describes hiring creatives who can tie design to bookings, and details how constant calls with reps eliminate silos. He also digs into measuring success with CAC efficiency, balancing short-term pipeline with long-term credibility, and adapting to buyers who either want total handholding or zero contact. The conversation is a blueprint for making marketing accountable without killing creativity.  

In this short segment of the Revenue Builders Podcast, we revisit the discussion with Shopify's CRO Bobby Morrison. We dive into the transformational "pod structure" they've adopted to align cross-functional teams more closely with customer outcomes. Drawing on lessons from his tenure at Microsoft, Morrison explains how Shopify's industry-specific pods streamline collaboration across sales, solution engineers, marketing, and customer success—leading to improved speed, accountability, and customer satisfaction. He also reveals how aligning incentives within these pods reduces internal friction and creates scalable, enterprise-grade execution. This episode is packed with strategic insight for CROs, sales leaders, and go-to-market operators aiming to drive operational efficiency and growth.KEY TAKEAWAYS[00:00:28] Shopify's shift to 16 industry-specific pods was designed to bring cross-functional teams closer to the customer.[00:01:00] Each pod includes sales, solution engineering, launch engineers, and partners all aligned around a single outcome.[00:02:00] At Microsoft, the team spent 70% of their time on internal orchestration, highlighting the inefficiency of siloed roles.[00:03:00] Shopify's pod structure includes defined primary and secondary roles with centralized responsibility and incentives.[00:03:49] All roles in a pod are measured against the same customer cohort, improving continuity and reducing disruption.[00:04:12] Morrison explains how aligning marketing with outcomes (not just MQLs) is helping Shopify eliminate interdepartmental friction.[00:05:00] Shopify is close to assigning at-risk compensation to marketing teams based on segment performance—creating real ownership.[00:05:49] The pod model drives faster decisions, stronger accountability, and less tug-of-war between siloed departments.QUOTES[00:01:00] "All aligned around a single outcome, which is helping our customers win."[00:02:39] "A sales rep could have as many as 87 different people they're working with internally to hit their objective."[00:03:49] "Now the pods are incentivized off of the same customer cohort."[00:04:59] "We're very close to assigning at-risk targets to our marketing team."[00:05:49] "Less tug-of-war that happens between siloed parts of the organization that have different KPIs."Listen to the full conversation through the link below.https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/ai-driven-sales-innovation-with-bobby-morrisonEnjoying the podcast? Sign up to receive new episodes straight to your inbox:https://hubs.li/Q02R10xN0Check out John McMahon's book here:Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4Check out Force Management's Ascender platform here: https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

Laura Erdem, Sales Leader - Americas of Dreamdata, shares how sales and marketing teams can work together more effectively by focusing on shared business goals rather than forced alignment. Laura highlights the role of revenue attribution in helping marketers understand which activities are driving real impact, while acknowledging the complexity of measuring modern buyer journeys. She also discusses the value of correlation over time when it comes to linking marketing activities to revenue, and why simplifying processes and working closely with RevOps teams can help marketers feel more confident about their contributions to growth.Key Takeaways:(01:22) Sales and marketing alignment is about mutual respect, not friendship.(05:05) Creativity thrives when teams have time and space to experiment.(09:19) Marketing teams should collaborate with RevOps to understand impact.(13:10) MQLs need to connect to SQLs and revenue, not just impressions.(15:11) Attribution is often indirect; correlation over time is key.(18:03) Good data enables marketers to take accountability for revenue.(22:00) Using LinkedIn intentionally supports both sales and marketing goals.(24:46) Startup principles help enterprises achieve faster growth.(27:48) Transformation teams test ideas before full-scale execution.Resources Mentioned:Dreamdata websitehttps://dreamdata.io/Insightful Links:https://www.pecan.ai/blog/attribution-marketing-machine-learning/https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/communicating-marketings-impact-revenue-elevating-role-isaac-asendele/https://martech.org/new-attribution-challenge-understanding-marketing-sales-work-together/Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation. We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Why MQLs Are Broken (And What to Measure Instead)B2B marketers are under pressure to generate pipeline. But the truth is, most of us are stuck operating inside a broken GTM system that was never built for how buyers actually buy.In this episode, we're joined by Steve Patti — 7x CMO, 3x sales leader, and creator of the Brand Demand Expand framework — alongside Adem Manderovic, co-founder of CRO School and architect of Closed Circuit Selling.Together, we unpack why the MQL became marketing's biggest mistake, how misaligned incentives broke sales and marketing, and how to rebuild your go-to-market so it's actually commercially viable.Steve shares real stories — including how he used account intelligence to guide $200M in CapEx — and outlines the system he used to align sales, marketing, and product around real buyer needs.Tune in and learn:+ Why MQLs are based on “fantasy intent” — and what to track instead+ How to replace lead gen with real account intelligence+ What sales, marketing, and CS need to align on to win deals (and renew them)If you're a B2B marketer frustrated with misaligned GTM motions, noisy Martech promises, and the pressure to deliver pipeline from people not ready to buy — this episode is a must-watch.-----------------------------------------------------

Joelle Kaufman has been both a CRO and a CMO—and she's here to tell you: if sales and marketing aren't on the same page, you're leaving revenue on the table.  In this Huddles Quick Take, Joelle outlines the three most common mistakes CMOs make when trying to align with sales—and how to avoid them. From pipeline goals to budget tension to attribution battles, Joelle shares how CMOs can build better partnerships that actually drive revenue.  What You'll Learn:  3 alignment mistakes that keep marketing and sales at odds  Why obsessing over MQLs sends the wrong signal  How shared pipeline goals help unify teams  The real problem with attribution finger-pointing    For the rest of the conversation with Joelle, visit our YouTube channel (CMO Huddles Hub) or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64XHb_E7UT4.  Get more insights like these by joining our free Starter program at cmohuddles.com.   For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcasts/ To learn more about CMO Huddles, visit https://cmohuddles.com/

Welcome to Executive Conversations, where we dig into the gritty realities of leading modern marketing teams. In this episode, Maeva Cifuentes sits down with Janet Jaiswal, chief marketing officer at Blueshift and long-time marketing advisor. Janet unpacks why her team now owns 90 percent of pipeline, how she killed the vanity of MQLs in favour of BANT-qualified “stage 1” leads, and what it really takes to align marketing, sales and CS around the same revenue target. She explains the hidden CRM and training work that comes with that shift, the dangers of chasing efficiency before effectiveness, and why AI-powered search is rewriting the SEO rulebook. Janet also shares practical steps for surfacing in LLM results—from tweaking robots.txt to publishing Q&A-style content—and reveals how Blueshift is already closing deals that start with ChatGPT queries.

We sat down with sales legend Leslie Venetz and CRO School co-founder Adem Manderovic to untangle why outbound is still stuck in 2011—and how modern SDRs and BDRs can fix it fast.Outbound targets have never been tougher, yet teams keep blasting buyers with the same tired sequences. In this no-fluff chat, we unpack a buyer-first framework that swaps brute-force tactics for trust-led outreach and market validation.Tune in and learn:+ The “earn the right” test Leslie uses before every email or call+ How to rebuild SDR metrics around market validations - fast+ Why AI tools like Clay help only when you start with real buyer insightThis episode is a must-watch if you're serious about building a profit-generating pipeline without burning trust (or your team).-----------------------------------------------------

Tired of being seen as sales support? David Heyworth reveals how marketing leaders can break free from the order-taking trap and own the entire go-to-market motion. From building sales discovery teams that report to marketing to creating personalised experiences that win enterprise deals, David shares battle-tested strategies for transforming marketing from a cost centre into a revenue-driving growth engine. Learn why talking revenue (not leads) changes everything, how to build true sales partnerships, and the account-based selling approach that boosted conversions from 7% to 52%. Key Takeaways Stop talking leads, start talking revenue - Frame your impact as "$1M in pipeline opportunities" not "100 MQLs generated"Own the sales discovery process - Build SDR teams that report to marketing for full funnel controlBe in the room where it happens - Get marketing into weekly sales meetings as strategic partners, not vendorsAccount-based selling beats ABM - Focus on "us" outcomes, not just marketing campaignsListen with intention - Use "two ears, one mouth" to gather sales intelligence and customer insightsProve your model first - Start with sales champions, show results, then scale across the organisationCustomer intimacy is your B2B superpower - Direct customer engagement beats digital analytics every timeAI is your wingman, not your replacement - Use it to scale content creation and personalisation efforts Memorable Moments The "crickets" story: How poor event execution taught valuable lessons about sales alignmentThe Defence Coin case study: Creating meaningful, personalised experiences that cement relationshipsThe 7% to 52% conversion breakthrough: How rapid response transformed lead quality Who Should Listen: Marketing leaders frustrated with being seen as support functions, CMOs looking to drive revenue ownership, and anyone struggling with sales-marketing alignment in complex B2B environments. Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC: https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter

Key Links:Park & Battery: https://parkandbattery.comPark & Battery LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/parkandbatteryBBN | Agency X: www.bbn-international.com/agencyxThis episode Ed Davis rewinds the reel on Cannes Lions to ask whether the festival is finally judging B2B work on its own creative terms. His guide is Michael Ruby, fresh from the Croisette after Park & Battery's Roto-Rooter campaign became one of only a handful of pure-play B2B entries to make the Creative B2B shortlist.The vibe in CannesRuby describes a “whirlwind” first visit: endless content, dizzying networking and—crucially—a palpable momentum for business-to-business brands. With B2B entries up to 415 this year, he believes the new compliance checks have helped weed out thinly veiled B2C work and sharpen the category's focus on genuine business impact.Evolving judging criteriaBoth host and guest agree the jury is learning to look beyond clever execution to lasting impact. Ruby notes that the best-in-class entries marry creativity with commercial proof: not just impressions and clicks, but measurable shifts in buying intent or brand preference. Yet very few campaigns—his own included—are “culturally sticky” enough to be remembered in five years, a challenge he throws down to the industry.Behind the Roto-Rooter short-listerTurning America's best-known plumber into an emotional storyteller started with one insight: nearly half of small businesses never reopen after a major flood. From there Park & Battery pushed a long-trusted client to embrace talking toilets, wry humour and a budget-friendly regional media plan. Stakeholders bought in instantly—as long as every line stayed technically accurate for professional plumbers. Data, emotion and AIThe pair dissect the uneasy dance between performance metrics and brand building. Gartner still says 60 % of martech sits idle; Cannes jurors can hardly be expected to decode MQLs and SQLs, so agencies must translate data into clearly meaningful outcomes. On AI, Ruby sees a gulf between public bravado and private anxiety: smart teams are automating the menial to free humans for concept craft, while audiences begin to recoil at low-grade “AI slop”.Campaigns that raised the barBeyond his own work, Ruby highlights AXA's “Three Words” domestic-abuse clause, Spotify/FCB's “Song for Every CMO” (with just 14 hyper-targeted impressions) and Vaseline's TikTok verification series as benchmarks that blend purpose, precision and share-worthy storytelling.Advice for would-be Lion-tamers“Stop sitting on the side-lines.” B2B specialists have the craft, but must invest time and a modest budget in world-class case films. If Park & Battery can do it four years in, anyone can. The only real barrier is deciding to enter.

In this solo episode, Dan shares an evolved perspective on outbound strategies for boutique agency owners. Reflecting on lessons from the "Right Words to the Right People" workshop and client campaigns since, this episode offers a practical, human-centered approach to outbound that respects your time and builds real pipeline—without sacrificing trust or burning bridges.⏱️ Time-Stamped Breakdown00:00 – Why outbound often fails for boutique agencies02:20 – Why small wins in copy drive big results04:39 – The unique control and feedback loop outbound provides06:57 – Why most agency outbound tactics are broken from the jump09:21 – Enter the "trust recession" and how to sell like a human, not a marketer11:39 – How to define ideal client profiles (ICPs) the right way14:01 – The six key ingredients of effective outbound copy14:10 – Tribe-based kinship15:12 – Deep understanding and insider language16:21 – Show, don't tell authority cues18:38 – Timeliness and aligning with the calendar21:01 – Pattern interrupts that keep it horizontal, not hokey22:32 – De-risking the ask and giving people an easy yes23:20 – How to scale relevance without fake personalization25:43 – Outbound channels: why simpler may be smarter28:04 – Systems thinking: time blocking, trust, and the ops question30:21 – The real definition of “sales work” (hint: it's not just calls)32:43 – Supporting your new business person (or yourself) to succeed

From GTM Live:This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, to unpack why so many B2B companies are pouring budget into paid media, and still missing revenue targets.They break down what's really going wrong: not too much paid media, but too much spend on a strategy that doesn't convert. Pipeline is down. Revenue is down. And yet, the response is often to spend more, not better.You'll hear why performance marketing often fails to deliver real outcomes, how misaligned KPIs drive bad decisions, and what separates newer, agile companies from legacy players still running outdated GTM playbooks.Megan shares insights from working with dozens of growth-stage companies and how leadership mindset, speed of iteration, and willingness to challenge old assumptions can make or break your demand strategy.If you've been trying to defend paid spend, or wondering why results are flat despite doing “all the right things”, this episode is for you.Key topics in this episode:Why paid media often fails to convert to pipeline or revenueThe difference between new-school and old-school GTM teamsWhy optimizing for MQLs leads to the wrong outcomesHow to rethink measurement for real demand captureWhat high-performing growth teams do differentlyThis episode is powered by ⁠⁠Passetto⁠⁠. We help high-growth and equity-backed companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit ⁠⁠⁠passetto.com⁠⁠.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn unpacks one of the most deeply ingrained—but damaging—habits in B2B go-to-market: measuring success based on which department sourced the deal.While many marketing leaders know this approach doesn't reflect reality, changing it is hard, especially in legacy orgs with outdated attribution models, internal inertia, and leadership that still demands simple answers to complex questions.In this solo episode, Carolyn breaks down the real problem: measuring performance by team creates siloed decision-making, warped incentives, and misses what actually moves buyers through the funnel.You'll hear why the future of GTM performance measurement is about mapping buyer behavior across an interconnected journey, not slicing credit by department. And she shares the exact 5-part framework Passetto uses to help teams ditch "department-sourced" for something far more accurate and impactful.If you've ever struggled to prove Marketing's full impact, or if your exec team is still obsessed with MQLs and last-touch attribution, this episode will hit home.Key topics in this episode:Why “department source” attribution is outdated and misleadingThe real structure of a modern buyer journeyHow this model leads to misaligned KPIs and credit battlesWhy most GTM teams lack the data architecture to measure what mattersA new framework to measure engagement, prospecting, and sales as one integrated systemThis episode is powered by ⁠⁠Passetto⁠⁠. We help high-growth and equity-backed B2B SaaS companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit ⁠⁠passetto.com⁠.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, to unpack why so many B2B companies are pouring budget into paid media, and still missing revenue targets.They break down what's really going wrong: not too much paid media, but too much spend on a strategy that doesn't convert. Pipeline is down. Revenue is down. And yet, the response is often to spend more, not better.You'll hear why performance marketing often fails to deliver real outcomes, how misaligned KPIs drive bad decisions, and what separates newer, agile companies from legacy players still running outdated GTM playbooks.Megan shares insights from working with dozens of growth-stage companies and how leadership mindset, speed of iteration, and willingness to challenge old assumptions can make or break your demand strategy.If you've been trying to defend paid spend, or wondering why results are flat despite doing “all the right things”, this episode is for you.Key topics in this episode:Why paid media often fails to convert to pipeline or revenueThe difference between new-school and old-school GTM teamsWhy optimizing for MQLs leads to the wrong outcomesHow to rethink measurement for real demand captureWhat high-performing growth teams do differentlyThis episode is powered by ⁠⁠Passetto⁠⁠. We help high-growth and equity-backed companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit ⁠⁠passetto.com⁠.

Think LinkedIn is the place to reach technical buyers?Auvik CMO Susanne Rodriguez breaks down how her team built an insanely effective Reddit and Facebook strategy — yes, Facebook — to reach IT pros who dodge sales emails like it's their job (because it is).We're talking memes that convert, subreddits that slap, and how to avoid getting flamed by Reddit mods who smell B2B fluff from a mile away. You'll also hear how Auvik got dragged for a meme, owned it publicly, and came out stronger — a.k.a. how to market like a human.If you've ever uttered the words “we need more MQLs” while ignoring your company's meme game… this one's for you.

Are We Forgetting the Humans in B2B Marketing?In this episode of The Hard Corps Marketing Show, I sat down with Daniel Incandela, Consultant, Advisor, and Fractional Marketing Officer for several fast-growing companies. With a background in anthropology and a career built on the power of storytelling, Daniel offers a refreshing take on branding, creativity, and human connection in B2B marketing.Daniel challenges the obsession with performance metrics and argues that B2B brands must return to what truly moves people: stories, emotion, and authenticity. From crafting messaging frameworks to using AI to amplify impact, he shares how marketers can stay ahead without losing their humanity.In this episode, we cover:Why B2B marketers need to take branding seriously and break the “brand doesn't matter” mythThe messaging house framework Daniel uses to align teams and anchor a brand's narrativeHow B2C creativity can inspire B2B marketing strategiesThe danger of relying too heavily on sterile metrics like MQLs and SQLsHow thoughtful gift-giving and storytelling build better customer relationshipsIf you're looking to build a brand that's not just data-driven but human-centered, this episode is packed with ideas to elevate your strategy and inspire your team.

Refine Labs' General Manager Judy Sheriff is on today to walk through how and why you should implement Refine Labs' modern, tangible success metrics for your marketing team. Judy Sheriff shares her career story, starting with her entry into marketing in 2010, highlighting experiences with companies relying heavily on traditional metrics such as MQLs, and her eventual discovery of modern demand generation strategies. The conversation moves then into the critical juncture when she realized the necessity for change and her subsequent contributions at Refine Labs in guiding companies toward a comprehensive understanding of influence over direct tracking. Essential SEO keywords such as "B2B SaaS," "marketing measurement framework," and "demand generation" are explored throughout the episode.The episode also spotlights the impact of tools and strategies that have helped Judy develop successful frameworks in marketing. With Evan, they discuss the importance of simplifying dashboards and streamlining data processes for accurate measurement. Judy emphasizes the significance of aligning with sales and finance to drive effective change and discusses the potential over-reliance on AI in marketing. Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #measurement #metrics______Subscribe to Stacking Growth on Spotify and YouTubeLearn More About Refine LabsSign Up For Our NewsletterConnect with the guest:Judy SheriffConnect with the hosts:Evan HughesSteph Crugnola

"We need to stop forcing marketing metrics on the business MQLs, click-through rates, web traffic and start speaking the language of pipeline, bookings, and revenue. When marketers align their reporting with what the executive team actually cares about, they stop defending their existence and start leading the growth conversation.” Leslie Alore, SVP of Marketing at Flexera Marketing Impact Unlocked: Prove, Scale, and Strengthen Revenue Contribution. A practical framework for aligning marketing metrics with the outcomes your executive team actually cares about. In this episode of Revenue Boost, Kerry Curran sits down with Leslie Alore, SVP of Marketing at Flexera, to unpack one of the most urgent challenges facing B2B marketing leaders today: proving marketing's value in terms that drive boardroom decisions. Too many teams are stuck reporting MQLs while the C-suite wants pipeline, bookings, and revenue. Leslie shares how to shift from tactical metrics to strategic impact with a marketing contribution model that reframes the role of marketing as a core revenue engine not just a lead factory. You'll walk away with actionable strategies to: Align marketing language with executive priorities Measure contribution across pipeline creation, acceleration, and bookings Navigate complex sales cycles and partner motions with smarter tracking Earn trust by demonstrating marketing's real influence on growth Whether you're a CMO, VP, or revenue-minded marketer, this episode gives you the tools to elevate your seat at the table and scale marketing's business impact without fighting for credit.

Podcast Summary: The Community Code — Building Brand Loyalty Beyond the TransactionIn this episode, Sacha Awwa dives deep with Michael Puhala, Chief Community Evangelist at Khoros, a trailblazer in the digital community space. With over a decade at the forefront of online community innovation, Michael has helped some of the world's top brands—like Microsoft, Spotify, and Sephora—build thriving ecosystems that drive retention, loyalty, and long-term customer engagement.From the early days of gamer forums to the rise of AI-assisted support and ideation hubs, Michael unpacks how brands can turn passive customers into active participants. This episode is essential for marketers, CX leaders, and product teams who want to build customer relationships that last.Key Topics Discussed:1. The Evolution of Community StrategyWhy digital communities predate social media—and how they still matter moreFrom support channels to data goldmines: how community became strategicHow post-COVID dynamics revived the role of community in brand building2. Community as a Retention EngineWhy Sephora community members spend 2.5x more than non-membersThe difference between customer-to-brand and customer-to-customer engagementUsing forums and ideation to support loyalty, CSAT, and product development3. From Forums to FlywheelsHow brands like Zoom and Southwest scale support through communityThe power of community-driven SEO: 180-day payoff, long-term valueSuper users as volunteers, evangelists, and customer service amplifiers4. B2B vs. B2C CommunitiesThe surprising overlap between Spotify and ShopifyWhy use cases like support, ideation, and lifestyle education apply across sectorsCommunity KPIs: lifetime value, churn reduction, CSAT, and content generation5. Community & AI: A New FrontierWhy AI needs community more than the reverse—for nowSummarization, prioritization, and churn prediction: AI's real role in communitiesHow generative AI will transform federated search and product-embedded support6. Avoiding the Community PitfallsWhy “build it and they will come” doesn't workThe death of MQLs and the rise of behavior-based engagementWhy community is a long-tail investment, not a short-term marketing fixKey Takeaways for Founders & Marketing Leaders:Treat community like a listening channel—not a marketing oneThe first 90 days of a new community initiative are critical—don't wing itDon't treat community like a campaign; it's a flywheel, not a funnelCommunity members are your highest-value customers—invest accordinglySurround yourself with experienced community leaders from day oneFollow Michael Puhala's Work:

“I think AI is not the future. Human-led content is the future. Authentic stories are the future,” says Tim Rath, co-founder and CEO of YOYABAIn this episode of The Content Cocktail Hour, Tim Rath, co-founder and CEO of YOYABA, joins Jonathan to discuss the rise of revenue marketing—and why it's much more than a buzzword. From co-founding an agency with his dad to working with powerhouse brands like HubSpot and Personio, Tim shares what it really takes to scale smartly in today's B2B environment. He also explains why marketing teams need to think beyond MQLs and focus on what actually drives revenue, retention, and growth.In this episode, you'll learn:How revenue marketing shifts focus from lead gen to business outcomesThe importance of product-market fit and message-market fitThe underrated power of personal branding in a noisy AI-driven worldResources:Connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-gandolf/Explore AudiencePlus: https://audienceplus.comConnect with Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timrathofficial/ Explore YOYABA: https://www.yoyaba.com/ Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(03:52) The concept of revenue marketing(07:22) Aligning marketing and sales for success(12:20) The role of brand marketing(13:37) Keys to rapid business growth(17:01) Founding a business with family(18:32) Building a marketing career from scratch(19:58) AI is not the future

This episode features an interview with Bill Macaitis, Founder & CEO, SaaS CMO Pro, where he shares growth strategies for SaaS and AI companies. His past roles include CMO positions at Slack and Zendesk, and SVP of Marketing at Salesforce. Bill joins the podcast to discuss findings from a recent survey of over 300 B2B marketers that gives insights into marketing strategies and budgets. He shares what they learned about marketing versus sales budgets, the most common attribution model, and more. Key Takeaways:Companies that are growing the fastest, invest the most in marketing. While cause and effect of that correlation is unclear, it's an interesting finding. Pipeline generation was one of the most tracked metrics for CMOs, which is a nice move away from only looking at MQLs or leads. Unfortunately, awareness was rarely tracked, making it hard for marketing teams to invest in long-term initiatives. A lot of companies, 65 percent, continue to use first or last touch attribution models.  Quote:  So, what we learned is a lot of companies, I think especially in their earlier stages -  percent still use first- or last- touch.  It's kind of crazy. I'm still shocked by it.  I remember my time at Salesforce,  I was running the marketing ops team at that point, along with a couple other teams, and  I just did a deep dive into attribution. Like I really wanted to understand like, hey, how many touches are people having with us before they became a lead? And then how many touches before they became a customer? What we would see is people would have 10, 20, 30 interactions or touches with us before they became a lead, and then they'd have like another 20 or 30 before they became a customer. And just imagine giving all the credit to the very first or last thing. And by the way, it's one of the reasons Google got so big was because a very common last touch thing is they will search on your company name. Branded search, right? And it's like, oh, like the SEM guys are like, this is amazing, right? We need to spend more on Google because they're producing these massive deals. And it's like, well wait, what about all the stuff in the middle?Episode Timestamps: *(03:48) Marketing Strategies and Budgeting*(22:31) Attribution Models in Marketing*(26:44) Top Metrics for B2B SaaS and AI Companies*(31:06) Marketing's Role in Revenue and ExpansionSponsor:Pipeline Visionaries is brought to you by Qualified.com. Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with PipelineAI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, intent data, and Piper, your AI SDR. Visit Qualified.com to learn more.Links:Connect with Ian on LinkedInConnect with Bill on LinkedInLearn more about SaaS CMO ProLearn more about Caspian Studios

This episode features an interview with Jenny Force, VP of Global Demand Generation at Meltwater, a company with a suite of solutions that spans media, social, consumer, and sales intelligence. Jenny discusses her experience launching the company's first big summit, as well as the work they have done to automate their inbound process to maximize each MQL.Key Takeaways:Launching a new big initiative and then proving ROI to the executive team requires careful positioning and careful measurement against KPIs.Automating the process for inbound leads through tech removes manual human intervention and puts the sellers into positions where they can do their job at a more impactful level.Imbuing campaigns with humor, while a little scary, can cause a big lift in engagement.Quote: We've been really investing and not just spending more money to get more MQLs. It's making, not to sound cliche, but every MQL count. It's about automating the process. Here at Meltwater, we're a 20-year-old company, we're very sales-centric and there's a lot of energy that used to be put behind outbound. So, it was changing the narrative around inbound. Until we totally make this change as a business where everyone in the business is shouting to get an inbound lead and are super excited about it, it's how can I get every single lead responded to in under an hour without any delays? And it's been a bit of a journey to put the right tech in place to automate those processes that we can, take out that manual human intervention and then put the sellers into the business so they can actually sell. So, I've got some tech around instant meeting scheduling, self-serve demos, a conversational email that we've put in. And honestly, I feel like that has already had such an impact on our conversion rates. I wouldn't get rid of it.Episode Timestamps: *(06:03) The Trust Tree: Improving inbound efficiency and increasing deal velocity*(14:32) The Playbook: Launching a summit and investing in automation *(45:53) The Dust Up: Changing inbound KPIs to get a seat at the table *(49:30) Quick Hits: Jenny's quick hitsSponsor:Pipeline Visionaries is brought to you by Qualified.com. Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with PipelineAI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, intent data, and Piper, your AI SDR. Visit Qualified.com to learn more.Links:Connect with Ian on LinkedInConnect with Jenny on LinkedInLearn more about MeltwaterLearn more about Caspian Studios

Most B2B teams still obsess over MQLs, discovery calls, and proposal stages—yet 90% of B2B buying happens during internal meetings, not sales calls.In this episode of Full-Funnel Live, Vlad and Andrei unpack

In this episode of The Long Game Podcast, Alex Birkett interviews Alice Wyatt, a B2B fintech marketing leader with experience at Codat, Bloomreach, and Adyen. Alice shares how her personal journey of building community and maintaining sanity in a fast-paced city like New York connects with her marketing philosophy: agile, people-first, and impact-driven. The conversation explores person-based marketing (PBM), the limits of MQLs, aligning sales and marketing teams, and embracing adaptability in an AI-disrupted world. Alice also reflects on how her approach to building community mirrors how great marketing is done: with empathy, boldness, and a willingness to challenge the status quo.Key TakeawaysFrom ABM to PBM: Moving beyond account-based strategies to person-based marketing creates deeper personalization and stronger alignment with buying behavior.MQLs Are Outdated: Relying on MQLs limits alignment; marketing and sales need shared, outcome-driven goals instead.Adaptability Over Tactics: Successful marketers focus on business outcomes and adapt tactics as priorities shift—agility trumps specialization.AI Is Redefining Roles: AI is reshaping marketing roles, requiring teams to adopt tools while maintaining strategic thinking and creativity.Community as a Superpower: Whether in marketing or life, building and contributing to genuine communities creates long-term value.Hire for Resilience and Curiosity: Non-traditional backgrounds (e.g., comedy, hospitality) often produce standout BDRs with adaptability and EQ.Thought Leadership ≠ Press Releases: Modern thought leadership means leading with perspective, not parroting trends or relying on legacy PR tactics.Show LinksVisit Alice's Forbes Council for Marketing ExpertsConnect with Alice Wyatt on LinkedInConnect with Alex Birkett on LinkedIn and TwitterConnect with Omniscient Digital on LinkedIn or TwitterPast guests on The Long Game podcast include: Morgan Brown (Shopify), Ryan Law (Animalz), Dan Shure (Evolving SEO), Kaleigh Moore (freelancer), Eric Siu (Clickflow), Peep Laja (CXL), Chelsea Castle (Chili Piper), Tracey Wallace (Klaviyo), Tim Soulo (Ahrefs), Ryan McReady (Reforge), and many more.Some interviews you might enjoy and learn from:Actionable Tips and Secrets to SEO Strategy with Dan Shure (Evolving SEO)Building Competitive Marketing Content with Sam Chapman (Aprimo)How to Build the Right Data Workflow with Blake Burch (Shipyard)Data-Driven Thought Leadership with Alicia Johnston (Sprout Social)Purpose-Driven Leadership & Building a Content Team with Ty Magnin (UiPath)Also, check out our Kitchen Side series where we take you behind the scenes to see how the sausage is made at our agency:Blue Ocean vs Red Ocean SEOShould You Hire Writers or Subject Matter Experts?How Do Growth and Content Overlap?Connect with Omniscient Digital on social:Twitter: @beomniscientLinkedin: Be OmniscientListen to more episodes of The Long Game podcast here: https://beomniscient.com/podcast/

“Marketers are sociologists. We see the entire market. Sales are psychologists. They focus on one thing in front of them,” shares Nadia Davis, VP of Marketing at CaliberMindIn this episode of The Content Cocktail Hour, Nadia Davis, VP of Marketing at CaliberMind, unpacks the realities of ABM, revenue marketing, and why marketing leaders need to align with the language of the boardroom. Nadia shares how ABM has always existed—long before platforms tried to "productize" it—why MQLs aren't actually dead, and the biggest mistake companies make when implementing account-based strategies.She also explores the operational side of marketing, offering insights on why instrumentation and process matter just as much as creativity, and how marketers can set themselves up for success when stepping into new leadership roles.In this episode, you'll learn:Why ABM isn't as new as people think—and how to actually make it workHow to prove marketing's value in the boardroom and tie impact to revenueThe biggest tech trap ABM marketers fall into—and how to avoid itResources: Connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-gandolf/ Explore AudiencePlus: https://audienceplus.com Connect with Nadia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiadavis/ Explore CaliberMind: https://www.calibermind.comTimestamps:(00:00) Intro(01:33) Nadia's marketing journey and insights(03:56) The evolution and misconceptions of ABM(05:16) Defining ABM and its practical applications(08:21) Challenges and strategies in ABM implementation(15:28) Tracking success in ABM and marketing(20:35) Nadia's first 90 Days at CaliberMind(23:41) Why MQLs aren't dead

Mark Herring is a passionate marketing leader with strong technical roots and deep knowledge of how to market cloud and enterprise software to open-source developers and DevOps audiences. He is the Chief Marketing Officer at HiveMQ. In this episode, Mark shares his approach to cold outreach, explaining why leading with recognizable brands before introducing value creates engagement. He explores effective email strategies, emphasizing the power of short, curiosity-driven messages over long, detailed pitches. He also discusses pricing from the buyer's perspective, highlighting how perceived value—rather than just function—drives purchasing decisions.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn proven strategies for grabbing attention in cold calls and emails, using brand credibility and psychological triggers like FOMO. Discover how to price based on what buyers truly value, rather than just cost or features, using real-life analogies. Get practical tips on structuring sales conversations to keep prospects engaged without sounding like a typical salesperson.   “Try and understand the value in the eyes of your buyer. I think far too many times as vendors, we think there's intrinsic value because it costs us much to produce or we think it looks like that. It's trying to understand from a buying perspective, what is the value you're providing.” - Mark Herring   Topics Covered: 01:29 - How his journey from development to product marketing led him to pricing 03:41 - How his early pricing research focused on how customers would use a product rather than explicitly asking about the problem it solved 04:59 -  To what is the short tenure of CMOs in B2B and consumer goods attributed to 06:25 - Explaining what a pipeline is and how pipeline generation involves value demonstration 10:38 - Comparing pipeline to running a marathon, emphasizing that while MQLs and SQLs are useful stepping stones, the ultimate goal is generating real sales opportunities 12:02 - Differentiating a pipeline from a SQL 14:18 - Demonstrating how a successful cold outreach combines multiple touchpoints 18:57 - How to make prospects more receptive in a cold call  21:13 - Why he uses big brand names as conversation openers in cold calls rather than starting with a value statement 22:27 - What an effective cold email should be 24:42 - Highlighting  the importance of A/B testing cold emails and continuously refining outreach strategies to improve open rates 25:55 - Mark's best pricing advice   Key Takeaways: “It's cold because you've never had the interaction, but usually they've interacted somewhere with you. It's like they might have seen you at an event, or they might have seen some of your outreach to you already and going, ‘Okay, I'll give this guy a bone.'” - Mark Herring “One of the sales guys was talking about this [cold calls] at the conference we were at together, and I just loved it. And he is like, ‘Don't over research, because there's never a good time to know everything.' Because you got to keep on dialing.” - Mark Herring “You can't stop doing it [cold outreach] because it's like getting dice and trying to get the six, the more you throw it, the better chance you're going to get to the six.” - Mark Herring “I lead [cold call] with brands, not with value. And when you do that type of thing, they're then shocked going, ‘Oh, he didn't do a sales pitch on me. He's asking me about these companies. Well, maybe it is something interesting.'” - Mark Herring   People/Resources Mentioned: FedX: https://www.fedex.com/en-us/home.html UPS: https://www.ups.com/us/en/home   Connect with Mark Herring: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/herringmark/ Email: mark.herring@hivemq.com   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is the first GTM Live episode of 2025, and Chris shares his most recent GTM strategies to help you win. These lessons are especially crucial for companies who want to scale past $10 million ARR. Key topics from this episode: The 3 Pillars of GTM Success: GTM Strategy, GTM Optimization, and GTM Operations. Cost of Growth: Reframing GTM efficiency as "cost of growth" to measure true ROI and organizational health. AI and Copycat Products: How AI is accelerating product cloning and forcing companies to change how they differentiate. Challenges of PLG Integration: The pitfalls of mixing product-led and sales-led growth motions together in established companies. Smaller, Agile Teams: The shift towards AI-enabled, lean marketing and sales teams for efficiency and flexibility. Flawed Metrics: Why reliance on outdated KPIs like MQLs and traditional attribution models is a mistake. Siloed Departments: The need to remove organizational silos to create a Unified Revenue Factory. Future-Proofing Sales and Marketing: Strategies to align compensation, integrate data, and streamline processes for sustainable pipeline creation. – Thanks to our friends at Hatch for producing Revenue Vitals and all of Chris's short-form video and YouTube content. Hatch is a video-first content agency that creates short-form video content, video podcasts, original video series, and YouTube videos for B2B companies. Visit www.hatch.fm to learn more.

In this episode, Chris Walker talks with hosts Mikkel Kiærulf Plæhn and Toni Hohlbein about the GTM challenges B2B companies face. He shares common mistakes companies are making, how to better use data for decision-making, and predictions for what the future of GTM looks like. Key topics from this episode: Why unit economics at the top of the funnel are the root of most GTM inefficiencies The CEO's pivotal role in aligning the entire GTM function Why current data structures fail executives and how to fix them Predictions for 2025: Centralized decision-making, smaller teams, and AI-native organizations The pitfalls of relying on outdated KPIs like MQLs and demo requests Why traditional attribution models hinder strategic decision-making How AI will reshape GTM strategies and why data architecture is critical The shift from RevOps to a more streamlined approach to operations Chris's vision for post-sale functions: Aligning customer success with measurable outcomes Strategies for improving per-rep productivity and scaling efficiently – Thanks to our friends at Hatch for producing Revenue Vitals and all of Chris's short-form video and YouTube content. Hatch is a video-first content agency that creates short-form video content, video podcasts, original video series, and YouTube videos for B2B companies. Visit www.hatch.fm to learn more.