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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. For this week's episode of APEX Express, we are joined by Yi Thoj and Belle Vang from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF) who will go into depth about these very tough but very real and needed conversations about abusive relationships, especially within the Hmong community, where 70% of Hmong Americans are under 24 years old.   Important Resources: Hmong Innovating Politics website California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures website Healthy vs. Unhealthy Relationships infographic How to Spot Abusive Relationships infographic Do you know someone in an abusive relationship? infographic Are you in an abusive relationship? infographic What does consent look like? infographic Transcript Cheryl: Good evening, everyone! You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl and tonight is an What is AACRE?, you might ask. Well comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality (AACRE) network, leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement, building and support for Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  For tonight's episode, we will be spotlighting the work of AACRE group Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP. Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from HIP will be in conversation with Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from the California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures, also known as CHAN-BOF.  They'll be in discussion on the importance of teen dating violence awareness, especially in the Hmong community as they are among the youngest of all ethnic groups in the United States with about 70% of Hmong Americans being under 24 years old.   I know somebody, you might want to learn more about HIP and CHAN-BOF so I'll let our speakers introduce themselves. And don't forget. All of their socials and websites will be linked in the show notes.    Belle: Hi, everyone, thank you so much for making time in your night to join us. We really appreciate it. Today we're going to be having a panel discussion in recognition of Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month. I really want to thank CHAN-BOF for collaborating with Hmong Innovating Politics. We're very excited to do this collab together. We're going to do a brief introduction. So, hi, everyone. My name is Bella Gaonoucci Vang. I'm with Hmong Innovating Politics as a Communication and Narrative Manager. If you're not one of our followers, make sure to follow us.  Hmong Innovating Politics is a grassroots organization focused on strengthening political power within Hmong communities through civic engagement. And with that being said, I'll go ahead and pull in one of our HIP members, Yi.  Yi Thoj: Hi everyone, my name is Yi and I use she, her pronouns, and I been a HIP young adult for around three to four years. I'm also working on the Bright Spots project.  Belle: And then if we can have Pana join the conversation.  Pana: Hi, everyone. I am Pana with CHAN-BOF champion stands for California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future. We were two grassroots organizations in community and outreach and this past year we have been able to provide mobile direct services to our Hmong survivors of domestic violence across the Central Valley– so from Sacramento to Fresno. Jennifer Xiong: All right. And that leaves me. Hi, everyone. My name is Jennifer Xiong. I use she/her pronouns and I work as a program specialist with CHAN-BOF and Banak, who actually serves as my supervisor. I'm really excited and happy to be here and really grateful for HIP for giving us a space time and platform to have this conversation  Belle: Thank you again CHAN-BOF for collaborating with us here at HIP. We really appreciate all the work y'all do in the community. I know y'all individually are really great folks. I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation. In your experience, I'm just asking everyone in the panel, where are some cultural norms or expectations within the Hmong community regarding relationships and dating, and that could be anything that you'd like to share from your own personal experiences. Pana: I think I can go. So I think growing up in the eighties, cultural expectations for women, Hmong women, We were expected to just cook, clean, and take care of our younger siblings and our parents. Right? So if you were dating, your relatives would just look down on us. Dating was frowned upon. I remember it was expected that if a guy is interested in you, they would have to come by your parent's house and your parents would have to approve. I remember guys come in and during our teenage years, my mom would have to be present. Right. My parents are really strict. Their limit was they could only stay two hours. And so my mom would ask fast questions. If they don't qualify, they don't meet expectations, they better be out ASAP. My parents are really, really strict.  So those were our expectations back in the 80s. We weren't really allowed to date during my younger days that's what we had to go through. Yi Thoj: I feel like a lot of the gender expectations of my generation is still very much by heteronormative and patriarchal norms and construct.  I'm the youngest of 7 girls, so all of my, 6 older sisters– they're fierce and they're also wonderful, powerful women who have helped me navigate through a lot of the contentions that I held before, interacting with romantic encounters and engagements. And so I think having that model definitely helped me navigate through my experiences as well. I feel like our parents are like, oh, if you want to engage in romantic encounters at a young age, that's welcome. But thankfully, they also didn't pressure us to do so. Jennifer Xiong: It's got me thinking about my own experiences, very little experiences, I might add. I think about some of the things my mom has said to me, which still stick around, it's kind of like embedded in my mind where she says Oh, ([Jennifer speaks in Hmong) meaning when your partner is visiting or at our home, you guys shouldn't be in your bedrooms. You should be out in the living rooms because that's really disrespectful. It, it invites negative perceptions about the person and about the relationship and it is a form of disrespect toward the, the parents and the home. I've also felt and seen from my older cousins or distant relatives who've gotten married– I think it's centered a lot around saving face. I remember hearing stories about my cousins. If they had gone out and they came home late, for example, and the parents were extremely displeased or unhappy, and they're like, no, you dishonored me and my daughter. You have to marry my daughter now because you took her home late, even if they didn't do anything salacious, so to speak. I'd hear those a lot. And, for me, those are always scary. Like, Oh my gosh, they would just do that! And you're a kid and you're growing up hearing these and actually, I think I heard it more commonly than I expected– people marrying young because of the whole consequence of arriving home late from a date or a hangout. So those are some of my experiences or what I've, I heard and witnessed. Yeah.  Belle: Thank y'all for sharing. I love hearing about your experiences. I It's really interesting how we all have different experiences, but it's still in the same realm of a very similar community, right? Very tight knit community. I echo both Jennifer and Yee's experience where my parents are a little bit more lax, but at the same time, it's like, make sure you marry someone who's a quality person. Right? I think that's really telling of how we see dating in the Hmong community. We don't date to date, right? We date to commit forever. And especially, I know all of us on this panel are women identifying and that can be a very dangerous tool, right? To just date to only marry– you're willing to put up with a lot, even if it's not really what you want for yourself, because the way the culture shapes us is if you are dating, you're only dating seriously. It's not to explore, not to be curious about yourself. And so I really appreciate the way that y'all frame it and the way that you share your experiences too. And I know we touched a little bit on this as well, but kind of gauging what it looks like to be in a healthy relationship. How would you say a healthy relationship is defined within the Hmong community? And what are qualities that you consider important? For a positive and respectful relationship within the community? Pana: So you all heard the word [Pana speaks in Hmong], right [Pana speaks in Hmong] right? [Pana speaks in Hmong] We We hear this over and over. I think even with my age, I've heard that. I'm pretty sure some of y'all have heard that to even my parents or friends or family, right? To me, what's considered positive in a relationship is really compromising and allowing you to have your own space, really meeting each other in the middle, trusting each other, having boundaries, appreciating each other, respecting, having that respect, right? Effective communication, being able to communicate with each other and having empathy. Also consent. Really having the permission of something to happen or agreement. Be able to agree with something and being committed to your relationship.  Jennifer Xiong: Yeah, I wanted to add, and also share that I think a lot of the times traditional expectations around what a healthy relationship looks like in the Hmong community generally entails being constricted and confined to your pre established roles that have been gone for generations. But I think that how we can further redefine that nowadays is to really think about how everything that Pana has already listed and shared. Right. I think it's important that those things like healthy boundaries and having balance within a relationship, I feel a lot of those things should be contextualized to the relationship. That's one, but also, I think it should be formed organically, which is difficult, and there will always be ongoing conversations about what a romantic commitment looks like, and what does that mean for the exact couple, but I think it's important to have an ongoing conversation about it, and then also it's important to understand these layers, that , If the couple is both Hmong, it's important to put that in context, and then it's also, what if it's a multiracial or multiethnic relationship? I think that's also very important. Understanding the values, and how these things can be formed organically as well. There are certain learned behaviors, beliefs, attitudes, that we pick up as we grow up and what the kind of relationships and dynamics we witnessed as we're growing up and then getting or getting involved in our own romantic relationships with people, and the things we witness and see can also really shape the way we go into relationships and the way we show up as partners.  I really don't know how to define it within the Hmong community, but I will say that I have seen when relationships and dynamics of dating are built on a foundation of patriarchy, it can, relating back to what Yi and Pana says, it can build really toxic and concerning, unhealthy relationship dynamics of power and control, and not knowing how to allow your partner to have autonomy to themselves, or knowing that it's two different people coming in together to a relationship. Power and control, when it gets mixed into this relationship, it can become really unhealthy and toxic. So I think it's also about unlearning those and realizing that certain attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs don't serve in creating a healthy relationship between a partnership or a romantic relationship. Within the Hmong community, a lot of us I've seen unlearning those behaviors and attitudes that we may have witnessed and maybe even internalized growing up. To answer the second part of the question what qualities are considered important for a positive respectful Relationship. I think it's really all that you you both named. Those are important like compromise and y'all named so many other great stuff, but then I was also just cranking up the things in my mind, but I just want to echo back what Yi and Pana said, and I'll leave it at that. Yi Thoj: What Jennifer just shared, about what we witnessed growing up sparked something in my mind as well about the media that we consumed growing up too. I watched a ton of Tyler Crohn's and Southeast Asian media growing up, and so much of the representations of love in there. It's so romanticized that abuse is okay. Non consensual engagements is okay. The media and real life relationships that are reflected and also modeled throughout our lives hold such a big factor into how we view love growing into a young adult and further. I know it definitely impacted me because I was always like, Oh, I think that's what love is, right? That's what it's showing on TV and things like that. Yeah, definitely holds weight.  Belle: Yeah, I love that you mentioned that Yi. I didn't really seriously start dating until I was in college and a lot of our generation grew up watching kdramas. Like, oh so romantic, super rich Boy is in love with super poor girl and he dictates her life and buys her everything like so romantic. And I tell my partner now that i'm married, if you ever do anything like in kdramas we are not messing around. That is not cool I don't want you to decide anything for me. I don't want you to pretend like you're in the hospital just as a prank You know boys over flowers. It's really interesting how love is framed growing up and how, just like you said, it's super romanticized. And like, you know how K dramas, you feel that excitement, like that, it's not necessarily love, right? That's just the thrill of being in something new, experiencing something different, but not necessarily love itself. And I really resonate with what you said earlier, Yi, about how it's really important to form those healthy boundaries and organically. And I really closely ties to Pana's comment about being able to create a consensual relationship and, Just like Jennifer said to like dismantling that patriarchy and foundation that we were built on.  We;re Belle: Learning those things are really hard to because initially I thought that drama was what love was supposed to be, but love is supposed to be safe and supposed to protect you, make you feel like you belong. Right? Because we like do grow up in a society that perpetuates love in honestly a violent way, I also just kind of want to know like y'all's thoughts on do you think there's enough awareness about dating violence within our communities, particularly the Hmong community? And how do you feel like it's generally perceived or even discussed amongst one another? Pana: I actually think there's not much awareness happening in the Hmong community. We really need to continue and bring more awareness. And it's awareness. Prevention. Intervention. We need to continue to do that. Some parents don't talk much to their youths about teen dating violence, what's healthy and what's not healthy, or actually like what to look for in a relationship.  In my household, I have only boys. And so we talk about safe sex, healthy boundaries, healthy relationship. What would they like to see in a relationship. I do this because, I've had experience working in the domestic violence field, sexual assault field for a long time. And plus, that's something that I never got from my parents. So my goal was, from now on, when I have my kids, these are stuff that I'm going to teach them. And so I kept my goals, you know, that was something that I told myself that I promised myself that I would do this, to continue to teach my kids healthy boundary, healthy relationship and dating violence., Most parents were taught when they were young you're going to get married and just have a good life, have a good family.  Yi Thoj: All points that are so valid and so true. There are generational gaps, between the elders and ourselves and myself. My parents are around mid 60s. As much as I think I try to bridge that gap sometimes, I think youth just don't have the language as well to fully explain to them.  There's even the conversation about like mental health and how romantic relationships are embedded in mental health and even that in itself is a difficult conversation to start. More tangible resources to learn more about communication in terms of learning the Hmong language and whatnot would definitely help with outreach and building awareness in the community. But I think a lot of recent events as well have also shown to me about where The reflection of culture and the communities as well Which I would also like to provide some sort of affirmation for any youth who's watching this that these contentions and frictions within the community– it's never a reflection of you. You know, it's always a reflection of the larger culture and what is happening. And something that we all need to advocate for and invest into to change.  Jennifer Xiong: yeah. I agree that Bottom line, there isn't enough awareness about dating violence within the Hmong community on many different fronts, like Pana mentioned, the prevention piece and the intervention piece. How does someone recognize or learn to recognize signs of I might be in a toxic, unhealthy relationship that is or can eventually lead into something that's violent? Or maybe I am in a current relationship where there is violence, but I don't know how to pick up on the signs and actually realize that, hey, I'm not in a safe place in this relationship, or in a safe relationship.  And then if your loved ones or family members or friends are recognizing it from an outside perspective, like, we lack a lot of resources and information out there for our community to engage with to learn how to intervene or also recognize it among our loved ones and the people we care about if they may be in those types of dynamics and relationships. And then when we do recognize it, how do we step in and help? What do we do? How can we help? And yeah, so bottom line, there isn't enough resources out there. I think it's still really on the, I guess the loose term, up and up. I really have a lot of faith and hope and I've seen, the work continue to expand and grow and obviously CHAN-BOF is a part of that, along with so many other organizations, statewide organizations that are trying to build more resources and information and push it out there into our communities, so that they know this information, they have access to it and can tap into it with our youth and young adults , and maybe even with our older folks or generations, cause I know you mentioned brought up a really great point too,in that , there's different gaps or different ways of understanding how to talk about dating violence within the Hmong community. Pana: Yeah, I remember my parents would tell me, [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] and I'm like I never understood that. And so growing up, getting older, I kind of understood it. And again, they said the same thing. We were talking, me and my kids were sitting in the table and we're talking about healthy relationship and stuff. What do you look for? How would the relationship look like? What's healthy? And then again, my dad says, yeah [Pana speaks in Hmong]  And my son was like, I don't understand that mom. It was just very generalized, and I had to like recorrect that. This is what he means. My definition of what my dad said was Look for a healthy relationship. Get to know the person Date them Belle: I love that example Pana because growing up everyone always told me that, and I took it at face value. You know when we speak in moments like poetry, right? but growing up I took that at face value saying like when you grow up make sure you marry someone who has Power, who has good reputation in the community, and then As I got older, my mom's like, that's never what I was telling you. Jennifer Xiong: I was just telling you, marry someone who makes you happy. And I was like, Oh, how come you didn't just say it that way? Then like you put it in a way that I was like, Oh man, I have to make sure I marry someone who's brings honor to my family, right? Like what a Mulan way of thinking. But I feel like that's always how I really perceive dating. And tying how Hmong is very much like poetry in our communities, I really like what Yi's comment earlier about how there's not really a lot of terminology in our community for even awareness about the mental health in our community. It's very much how medical terms have only really come to fruition in our community within the past like 50 years. We don't have anything regarding terms that we can use for mental health or dating violence, like the only thing we can use is sick, like that's pretty much how you say when you talk about mental health.   You just say basically, you have a sickness in your head, but there's not actual terms. When we talk about diabetes, like, [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] which literally translates to sweet blood or blood. Well, that is sweet. I hope to see, the next, I don't want to wait 50 years. I hope in the next 20 years there is verbiage that can help the community decipher and break down and bring more awareness to the violence that's being perpetrated in our communities as well. Belle: I love this conversation. I really love that. You showed examples of your son, and it really feels like how intergenerationally we think. We all think so differently, even though we have good intentions it doesn't get translated across the board. I kind of want to elaborate a little bit more when we talked about how it's really important to have consent when it comes to dating, how you really teach your sons that. Would you mind elaborating a little bit more about what consent looks like when it comes to dating, your perspective and how you see it within our communities as well. Pana: Have y'all seen the little video about drinking tea ? Sometimes you can drink the tea and you're like, I don't want to drink it no more. You know, and so you can change at any moment, right? And being able to understand okay, I This person might not want to, so I need to be able to give that respect and step away, right? And so, getting them to understand that. So if you all watched that video, the tea consent video. It's really cute, and It's really good for the youth, even for the kids. They understand it real quick. In a relationship, you should be able to give them that space and say, Okay, I get it. I'm gonna be able to understand if someone says no, then no means no. And then their body gestures are like they're pushing back, that means no. If my face is looking like, i'm shaking my head or you can see in my eyes like I don't like you stay away Right? And so being able to understand that Jennifer Xiong: I think one thing I want to add to that which is great. Like the tea consent video is super amazing at just Easily explaining under the understanding of consent, but also when someone can't consent like when they can't answer yes or no. For example, they're at a party and they've passed out drunk. They're just not conscious and awake and they can't answer yes or no, decline or accept. That also is not an invitation or permission. That is not a consent, basically. So I'm going back and forth. When a person can't answer, it's definitively no, because they're not consciously aware and awake enough to give that response. So I think that is also something I wanted to add. Yi Thoj: Yeah, I don't have much to add to this question. I've never seen the tea consent video, but putting that into perspective, that is such a great analogy and wonderful example and easy way to explain things can change right in the middle of an interaction.  Also just wanting to provide admiration to Pana as well to opening up the conversations with your sons because I think that's so important. A lot of the times younger Men or Hmong youth who are male identified. A lot of the times their influences are from other male figures in their lives who may not be the best role model. And so I'm totally leaning in towards the Hmong woman leaders in people's lives, especially Hmong youth, and just really loving that. Belle: I love that affirmation. we are right now a room of powerful women in our community itself. So I really, I want to like, double up on that echo Yi's statement as well.  Cheryl: You are currently tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA and 88.1 on KFCF. You have so far been listening to Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP, and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future (CHAN-BOF). We are going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. More on breaking the silence about teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong community after our break.  Welcome back. You were tuned into apex express on 94.1, KPFA 88.1. KFCF in Fresno. And online at KPFA. Dot org. You were just listening to your track off of the Anakbayan LB May Day mix tape called “Letter to Mom” by shining sons. Anakbayan LB is a Filipino youth and student organization based in long beach, California, working to arouse, organize and mobilize the community to address issues that impact Filipinos in the U S and in the Philippines.  Now, back to the show. We are here, with belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong. From California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF). We're talking about teen dating violence awareness and its impacts and implications in the Hmong community.  Belle: Jennifer, you talk about patriarchy and shared about how, you really tried to shape your son because you also work in this field you are definitely more eloquent work in addressing these issues. I want to dive more into what that looks like within our community and in our culture. Do you feel like there are specific cultural or community barriers that may prevent individuals, particularly Hmong individuals, from seeking help or disclosing incidents of dating violence? And what does that look like? Especially since I know CHAN-BOF does a lot of that direct work with clients. Pana: I think because we're so closely knitted, that's a barrier too, being afraid of, okay, this person might know me. One example is while growing up, I was taught men were more valuable than women. I think in our family, my parents really wanted a son and they kept on trying and trying until after they got 7 daughters, they finally got their son, right? And so we were told, you have to be patient because boys, [Jennifer speaks Hmong] and as a teenager, I was like, I guess I held no value. And so, and also keeping in mind for a long time, a lot of our culturally specific organizations were mainly ran by Hmong men. Hmong men are the main person who makes the decisions Jennifer Xiong: Some of those barriers are they don't seek help or support. The other barrier that I experienced in high school is I had a friend who was dating someone who was really abusive and verbally abusive, physically abusive. He sexually assaulted her. When she came to me. I was like, Oh, no, you need to go to your parents. The minute she told her parents, she was forced to marry him to save face. And so, after watching what had happened to my friend made me feel like if that happened to me and I went and told my parents. But these are back in my days, though, right? I would be forced to get married, like, and that time I didn't know that that was not okay. If someone raped you and forced you, that is not okay, but I wasn't aware of that. She wasn't aware of that. And so, again, we said, you know, back, awareness needs to happen. Awareness and education. That was something I remember for a long time and I felt guilty and I, I felt bad because I didn't know who to send to go for help. I referred it back to her parents and said, yeah, your parents would help you go for it and go for it. And that's, that's what happened. That's one of the other barriers. Some of our parents are not very educated in this topic, and it's a topic that we don't talk about. I do want to add, there's still strong sentiments of, victim blaming, shaming, disempowering. I've heard statements, or I will say, I was doing my research paper on DV in the Hmong community. My sources were like YouTube videos. And so, I found these videos of these women speaking out about their experiences of DV. In this particular example, she's married she was pregnant and her husband was abusing her. So much so that he was dragging her down the stairs of their apartment building. And so she mentioned her stomach was basically getting shaped. She was somehow able to escape his grasp and run to a neighbor and ask them to call law enforcement. And so law enforcement came and took away the husband because they visibly could see what, what had gone on. Her mother in law had said to her, Oh. [Jennifer speaks Hmong], meaning, oh, daughter in law, why did you call law enforcement and have them take away my son? It dawned on me how we perceived some of these dynamics and abuses when it happens in relationships. And again, the whole, why did you do that instead of are you okay? What happened to you? Why did they do that to you? Or really focusing on the wellness and safety of the person being in a violent relationship, violent abusive relationship. And to add to that, the terminology and the way we frame some of the resources out there, I remember a lot of the [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] the elders, would call DV shelters [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] right. The term, the explanation of it is like the place for runaway women or wives or mothers. But in fact, these shelters meant to house and keep individuals, women, children, who were experiencing abuse and violence in their relationship safe. But then we use negative connotations and terminology to label them because it brings a lot of shame and hesitation to seek out help. The fact that the resources that are available mainstream wise for those who are seeking help and resources because they may be in an abusive violent relationship is that there's also a lack of culturally responsive resources and services to aid and assist our specific community members when they're out trying to get the help that they need. I've witnessed and heard that a lot from the clients that I directly support and assist. Like, oh, we've gone here and then they mentioned not having a great experience, or being misunderstood, or I'm not feeling even safe or comfortable enough to talk about their experiences and get the resources and help that they need because some of the agencies really lacked the cultural understanding awareness or the intersection of that when it comes to dating violence or domestic violence in our own community. Yi Thoj: Yeah, all of this is like really great examples. Also, unfortunate. I think that from my own experience with dealing with victims around me who have undergone a lot of these violences, what I've seen is that a lot of it is them recognizing that the harm that is being done to them is wrong. Very much so. But they've also internalized and conditioned themselves to accept it as something that is normal and okay, even if a lot of the times there's this back and forth resistance of wanting to debate themselves from the situation, but then at the same time, them like always going back and this is the cycle of abuse, right, and how it works. But one note that I would also like to make is that what I've also seen is that it's really, really important that male perpetrators, especially Hmong men, it's important that there are other Hmong men who are holding them accountable, is what I found to be true. Because as much as Hmong women who are victims and other Hmong women bystanders who are wanting to advocate for these victims try to stand up for them, These perpetrators and also the culture inherently does not change if people who are in power and have that privilege don't actively help dismantle it, too. So, I think that it's important to note. There's so much power that goes into having woman led spaces and woman voices because that's so important, but I also think there should be so much more work done from the cisgendered male counterparts in our lives and in the community Belle: Thank y'all for that. Your sentiment is so powerful, yi and it's Very valid. A lot of times the folks that were leading this work are often the women in our communities Like that's just straight up facts, right? I attended a Boys and men of color conference, and one of the panels said the one time that men have these spaces together is also when women created. Right? As women, we build a lot of community for our community and at the same time, don't get the recognition of the work that is being done. So, it's really important that those who do have power, make sure that they implement it correctly and support communities that minorities within their communities that need that extra support.  The examples provided to I felt were very powerful, but also very traumatizing. When I was listening to your story, when you were talking about how you advise your friend to go to their family and they were forced into marriage. I know that we are different generations, but I feel like I definitely have met folks who are my age who were still forced to the situation. Those culture practices are so very normal and not unheard of. Like it's not completely cultural shift within one generation. And I'm sure When you witnessed that, that it was very traumatizing for you too, even though you were not the one immediately affected by it, but it also shifted the way you saw community, the way you viewed culture itself. And you even expressed you felt a lot of guilt and responsibility for that. It's really interesting that when there are those traumatizing, abusive relationships happening to those folks, and even at the third per person party that you feel that trauma in other ways as well. You mentioned how the patriarchy does affect our communities in that way. What is being done? What is being said to help heal our communities and work past these issues that are obviously very much rooted in our communities. I know we talked a little bit about the way cultural identity influences our communities. I know we specifically talked about the Hmong community too as well. I know we only have about 10 minutes left and so I kind of just want to dive into, not necessarily solutions, but what are things that we can take, what are steps that we can take to make progressive action and change in our community? So in your opinion, what role can the Hmong community play in addressing and preventing this deep imbalance? And Are there any community led solutions that you feel could be effective within our community? Yi Thoj: Yeah, I think as we've mentioned throughout the conversation, it's important to emphasize and highlight prevention work that can be done. And that is teaching the young boys and men and ongoing older Hmong men in our lives to. Because that is community, right? Folks who are directly within our circles, as well as people who we interact with. I think it's important to teach them very simple things that should already be fundamental, but unfortunately are not. Such as informed consent, and then also just normal consent. I think to echo back on what I just shared as well, having more male mentors who are very much progressive and radical in their work, and also centered in the actual tangible dismantling of the culture and harmful aspects of the system, I think is, A really big part of it. The reason why I think I'm bringing this up is because my experience with younger men who still hold a lot of these traditionalist and violent behaviors and mentalities receive a lot of their mentorship from other male mentors in their lives, and also just media consumption such as Andrew Tate and whatnot. A lot of folks in my own young adult experience very much religiously follow Andrew Tate and I had believed that we were at a point in our progressive history to where we have gone past that, but it's still very rampant in the community and it's affecting The youth, and it's affecting how they interact with and also date other Hmong women as well, assuming that this is a binary relationship.   Pana: It's time to talk about it, supporting each other, talking about what health relationship really is. And It doesn't have to just come from the school. For a long time, a lot of our parents, we depend on the school. Oh, they'll figure that out, right? it needs to come from everyone, every one of us. Even as a friend, as an individual, we all need to support in that piece like supportive organizations such as CHAN-BOF and HIP, right? Continuously talking about this, bringing the awareness. If you're feeling uncomfortable, if we're really uncomfortable talking about a certain topic, we do need to talk about that and really addressing that. Getting to understand what's healthy and what's not healthy. What are the signs of an abusive relationship? I think if we really want change, change needs to happen especially as parents and it comes from the youth too. We want a better future for our youth so I think really continue to really address this and doing a lot of prevention work because we tend to deal with a crisis and we're forgetting about the prevention part. How do we prevent this stuff. One great example that I always use is we're constantly supporting and trying to jump in and support people who are drowning, but we keep forgetting about, what's happening on the other side of that river. Something's happening and it's the prevention education piece that we need to start doing and continue to do. Cheryl: We're going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. Next up,. You're going to be listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle. More on the ways we can work towards. Teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong Comunity when we return.    Cheryl: And we're back!. You are tuned in to KPFA on 94.1, KPFA 88.1 KFCF F in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. You were just listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle, a Filipino beat rock music artist based in the bay. We're currently here with Belle and Yi from Hmong innovating politics, hip. And Jennifer and Pana from California Hmong advocates network, building our futures, cHAN-BOF as we discuss the ways we can address teen dating violence in the Hmong community.    Jennifer Xiong: I'm gonna echo, I mean, both of you brought up the same points, but in really distinctive examples of your own, and I really appreciate that. It is about really bolstering, our community up to be proactive and engaged and informed about this, and really equipping and building them up to be a part of this, that it's not oh, you know, I think it's great that obviously we do this work as current active advocates who've had previous quote, unquote, professional experience dealing with , crisis like this, or dealing with and supporting directly individuals who have gone or are going through this and that, like, everyone is more than capable of being equipped with the knowledge and being enforced with the knowledge and the ability To learn and understand this and be proactive about it in our community. It does lead a lot back to the whole prevention and intervention work and building up our youth and young adults. Cause you know, okay. So a side note is, so we did a lot of outreach and engagement work this past year, really putting it out in front of our community, in the Hmong community. And let me tell you, I was scared to do this because I was like, oh my gosh, people are going to be bringing their pitchforks and torches and, and they're going to come around and be like, who's this girl going on TV, talking about DV and providing resources and services for our community. Interestingly enough, I got like so much of the opposite reaction and responses. And I think to me, that's really heartwarming. And it gives me a lot of hope because I got so much positive affirmation and reinforcement and feedback from even our older generations in our community and young folks too, saying this is so needed. This is critical, important. I'm so glad you're out here. Or how can we get involved? Even being like, , I'm so happy that you guys are doing this work. And we really have a lot of faith because so much of our younger folks, younger generations are stepping up to do this sort of work. So I think it's really the community, a large portion of the community, from what I've experienced, really recognize how important and needed this work is to implement this and incorporate this into our community so they know and understand like, Hey, violence is not okay. Dating violence is not okay. Domestic violence is not okay. But what can we do? , what do we do about it? And I think we're at that place where people are really curious and desiring to really step up and do something about it. And again, I think what Pana and Yi mentioned.  Belle: Thank you. I love those ideas on how the Hmong community can take action to change the violence that happens in our communities, right? I love dismantling the patriarchy and empowering our youth. I think that also really comes with, I know we didn't really touch on this, but, the 18 class system. How there really needs to be more, you mentioned, women leadership. We have a lot of women leadership in our communities, but not within our 18 class system. And why is that right? And how do we convince them that we need women in those leadership roles within our communities to represent our communities. That also ties into the same thing with Jennifer, how we really want to empower youth. We should also have youth leadership because then the folks who are in those important seats are 60 plus and so disconnected with the reality that we're living in today. So, you know, I just really appreciate everything y'all brought to the table today. I know we only have a few minutes left. , I know we talked a lot about youth empowerment, how there's a lot of women leadership. Since we're focusing on teen dating violence today, what is a tip or advice that you would have liked to receive as a teenager, now being a little bit more experienced with your relationships. And if you could say it really quick. Any of the teenagers listening out here, perk your ears up– there's a lot of great advice in here, so make sure that you absorb it like a sponge. And I'll just go ahead and leave it at that.  Pana: I think with me– it's okay to not be okay, right? It's okay to not be okay, and it's really okay to talk to someone. And really reach out for help and, you know, really understand that it's okay to say no, and we are all equal. Jennifer Xiong: For me, Oh gosh, this is hard. First things first is like, I think my teen self would have loved to know dating during your teen years. It's not a big deal. Like, it's okay. Don't feel like you're missing out or that there's something wrong with you if you aren't in a relationship while you're in your teen years. Really spend that time cherishing and valuing the time you have with yourself and getting to know yourself first, so that when you do get into a relationship, you know what you want, you know, the values that you want in a relationship, the values you want to bring into a relationship, you know yourself. And also don't forget that you are you're worthy. You matter, you're important. And that, anyone who disrespects you or does not value your work in a relationship more than likely aren't worth your time and aren't worth your tears. And so I think that's what I would have wanted to know.  Yi Thoj: for mine, it's very specific. How I came to be with my current partner. It was through an intersection of events with a lot of things that we've already discussed today as well. And so I think what I would have wanted to know is that It's very difficult to try to empower and change the hearts and minds of people on the ground level. Even if you're going in head strong. please treat yourself with grace in all of that. And then lean in on your partner to help you navigate that. It's so important. I think a lot of Hmong women and Hmong girls are taught to be hyper individualistic and independent, and it's needing to teach that sometimes you can lean into your femininity. Sometimes you can lean in on support from other people. And also from your partner, it's really important. C: Thank you. I love all the self love in the room and just really great advice on being gentle with yourself and recognize that you are deserving of all the good things in life. I hope that everyone really takes that to heart and it's just friendly reminder to continue loving yourself in the process of loving others. Love is abundant. It's not scarcity mindset. We are here to share our love and that love should be shared with ourselves as well. We're going to wrap today up and I just want to say thank you so much to Yi, Pana, Jennifer for joining us and thank you so much CHAN-BOF for collaborating with HIP for dating violence awareness month. We really appreciate all your effort and all the work you do in our communities as well. If you haven't already in the audience, please make sure to follow and like HIP and CHAN-BOF so you can continue following the work that we do and support our endeavors as community members, because you are part of the change in our communities as well. Well, all so much and have a good rest of your night. Thanks everyone.  Cheryl: And that's the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Hmong innovating politics and CHAN-BOF by checking out our show notes.   Also HIP and CHAN-BOF ask work together to create these really helpful infographics on themes of teen dating violence awareness, such as what is consent? How do you know you're in an abusive relationship. How can you help someone who's in it? I found them to be really helpful. So I will also make sure to link those in the show notes as well.  Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – 01.23.25 – Hmong Teen Dating Violence Awareness appeared first on KPFA.

  In this episode Helene talks to Jane Clift about her role as the Chair of IAF England and Wales. They talk about: How Jane got involved with the IAF and the facilitation community “the game changer for me was coming to my first IAF conference,I had never met so many people interested in facilitation” How Jane became the Chair of IAF England and Wales Highlights and challenges since becoming the Chair  The importance of the IAF and community events “I think there's been a recognition in our chapter, in our community, we can all learn from each other.”  And future plans for both the IAF England and Wales chapter and Jane A full transcript is below. Links Today's guest: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-clift/ Email: chair@iaf-englandwales.org  To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter: Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team: Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/  Nikki Wilson:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript H.J Hello and welcome to facilitation stories brought to you by the England and Wales Chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Helen Jewell, and today I'm going to be talking to Jane Clift, consultant, coach and facilitator and Chair of IAF England and Wales. Welcome Jane.   J.C Thank you very much, Helen. I'm very happy to be here.   H.J So I've got lots of questions for you, mostly about your role as chair, but before we do that, it'd be really nice to hear a little bit more about you as a facilitator and the type of work that you do.   J.C Very good opening question there. So I have facilitated in quite a wide range of contexts, and I think I was doing it before I knew it was called facilitation. So I'm currently have my own business, but I've also worked a great deal for organisations, originally in sort of technology and consulting roles. So I think I was setting up and running workshops well before I knew that there was a term called facilitator, or that facilitation was a thing. So I would say that my practice started very, very organically, very organically. It's   H.J It's funny, if I listen back to all the different podcasts we've done, we've done, I would say that that kind of thing is a real thread through all of them that people have kind of come into facilitation accidentally, organically, or discovered that it is called facilitation after they began doing it in the first place.    J.C Exactly, yeah, something that I've also, I've always really loved stationery and stationery shops, like I really, really enjoy going into rymans and places like that. So obviously, when you're working as a facilitator, you have got the best reason in the world to be stocking up on colourful stationery craft materials. So there's something about that aspect of it that I don't know,  just I've always really, really liked that idea of bringing, like, colourful stationery or objects into the workplace and having a reason to use them. And that reason is facilitation.    H.J I love it. That's a great reason. I am also a self confessed stationery nerd, so I totally, I'm totally on board with that. Is there a particular type of facilitation that you enjoy doing, or that you feel is your kind of forte? J.C So I've done a lot of facilitation around agreeing, like a strategy or a road map, or like, identifying things that are getting in the way. So one of the areas that I've actually facilitated on quite a lot is risk management, which is really an important topic if you're doing large scale programs or projects, which I've done quite a lot of in my career. So I actually really like that as a topic, whether you do that in person or online. I have done quite a lot of those workshops where you end up with a room covered in pieces of paper, covered in sticky, you know, in post its and so forth. But during lockdown, like many people, I became very adept at online facilitation, and that's probably the space that I've worked in the most over the last few years, and I, I really, really like that, and I'm amazed that it works, because you're connecting up people that can be all over the world, and you're just in this virtual space, and yet you can, you can make magic happen if you can facilitate it well, and I find that an incredible and unexpected gift that came out of lockdown. Having said that, there is nothing like the energy of being in a room with people. I also absolutely love that I had the great pleasure of being facilitated myself recently, large scale workshop, 30 of us in a room, all talking about something, and it was just so much fun. So I'm not sure I've really got a niche. I'm quite a versatile person, but I tend to be better with topics that are a little bit more creative or future oriented, or that are kind of attached to something that's happening right now. Hence the interesting risk.    H.J Ah, interesting, okay, and it's, yeah, also good hearing about that adaptability, which I think also flows through a lot of facilitators, practice or facilitation, and yeah, that whole movement online. I think it is amazing sometimes, as you say, to think how people can be connected online, but somehow, well, it's not somehow the magic happens. It's because we're brilliant facilitators.   J.C It is because we're brilliant facilitators and we can create a safe and a fun space. It's, it is incredible, and it's also something that you almost don't realise that you have a gift for until you get that feedback. Oh, that was great workshop. Oh, we made, you know, we made progress, or I felt I could speak up. During the lockdown, I volunteered as a facilitator for action for happiness, and I ran a monthly session, and each month we get to, oh, I've got to do that session again. Oh, like an hour and a half, and I go into it, and I had a co facilitator, and we'd be part way through the session, and the magic would start to happen. And you could feel, because lockdown was a very tough time for many people, and you could feel the magic of facilitation happen. You could feel people relax, open up, and at the end of the session, we'd always do this check in, and everybody without exception, every single one of those sessions we ran, people said, Oh, I feel better. All my energy levels have lifted, or I feel relaxed. And I just thought, wow.   H.J Yeah. And you get that real kind of lovely feeling in your body where you think, oh, yeah, this, this is, this is good. This is why I do this. Okay. And so you talk about, you know, your work, and then sort of almost discovering, I guess, that you are a facilitator, or that that's the thing that you can call what you do. When did you get more involved in the kind of the facilitation community and the IAF in particular. J.C So like many people who facilitate, I had been doing quite a lot of facilitation, without much formal training or orientation and without any awareness there was a facilitation community. So what kind of got me into the IAF was I, I'd been doing some team, like away day workshop, and I had, this is classic me, by the way, I kind of reinvented the wheel, not realising that there were lots of methods out there and and like ways of doing things. And after I did this workshop and probably kind of gave it far too much effort, I thought I actually need to get learn some technique here. I've got the interest, I've got the motivation, I've got the aptitude. I haven't got enough technique. So I went and did some training with ICA UK. I did, I think that their group facilitation skills course. And I think the trainer was Martin Gilbraith, who, at the time, I think, was very much a leading light in the IAF. And I joined the IAF, and then I kind of washed in and out of it a little bit. And when I started to get more involved was at one of the London meetups. That's, I think, when I started to become more actively involved. Realised it was a community. Realised that you could come gather, meet other people who facilitate and talk about facilitation. Wow, amazing, it's a thing.   H.J A big network of geeks where we get to talk about all of these tools and techniques and stuff and stationery, probably. And so you discovered, I guess then this community, what kind of drew you in more, what kept you going to, you know, maybe the London meetups or ?    J.C I really like, I like being part of communities. So even though I have my own business, I do like to collaborate with other people. I do like to be connected to other people. It's quite important for me. So there's quite a lot of community attached to coaching, which is another area I'm involved with. And I think once I identified there was community attached to facilitation, I was just interested in finding out more. And the meetups were definitely really good for that. And then the game changer for me was coming to my first IAF conference. I don't think I'd ever met, I had never met so many people interested in facilitation, all in one space. And also the diversity of practice was really, really, it was really inspirational for me. I had been toying with some more creative practices, not necessarily having the confidence to implement them. And at that conference, I saw people that were just going, you know, all in on their more creative facilitation practices. And I was like, wow. So I think it was that very first conference which really said, thought, these are my people, these are my tribes. We're all different from each other, and yet we've got this thing in common. And so it was the creative thing, a kind of curiosity about people, and I think another common thread was this desire to, desire to make an impact in the world, but in quite a practical way.   H.J It does, I recognize that feeling of finding your people and just feeling really comfortable in a space, whether that's a meetup or something bigger, like the conference, and just thinking, oh yeah, people get what I'm talking about. And, yeah, that, yeah, making a difference I think is, is part of that, isn't it? How can we spread the word a bit? How can we share our, share our inner geekery, our love with other people? Okay, so pulling you further in, then you've been chair for the last couple of years, since January 2022, I think. And so how did that happen?    J.C Well, I have to say I wanted to get more involved in the IAF, and I think I stood for the board, and I guess I didn't intend to be chair, but I'm one of those people who I think it's called situational leadership. I don't choose to be a leader unless I feel in a context I am the best person to be that leader. So so I don't have, I don't have a burning desire every day to lead, but when I'm in a situation where I think in this context, I'm the best person to lead in order for us to get a good result, that's when I get involved. So that's I think, in with that group, when I became, when I joined the board and joined the leadership team, I was, I felt I was the best person, or the one who had had the capacity and the willingness. There was plenty of other people who had the expertise to do it, but I had the capacity and the expertise and the motivation to be the chair. So that's why I became the Chair. And it's been incredible, incredibly interesting thing to have done.    H.J So that's interesting, that kind of sweet spot of having all those things come together at once, as you say, the capacity and the sort of, you know, the space and the skills to actually do that. And so thinking the responsibilities is quite a it's a big deal being the chair, especially of, you know, a group of people that are all volunteers all coming together, you know, all sort of, all having their own day jobs as well. What have been your main kind of responsibilities, I suppose, as a chair, knowing a little bit about having done the role already?   J.C So the responsibilities are quite varied. The way I've worked as the chair is, there's a lot of structuring of the leadership group so that we can work effectively. So I guess there's an administrative element to it, and there's also an aspect to it where you're trying to move things forward in what you feel is the general direction that the group is interested in, whilst being mindful of the fact that everybody is indeed volunteering their time, and that, you know, it's a volunteer organisation, with fairly sort of Slim, slim but stable financial capacity. So it's it's been, for me, about like moving us forward, taking us further away from that sort of post COVID environment, where I think many organisations, you know, they had to get back on their feet, and I think you had steered the leadership team beautifully through the incredible challenges of lockdown. And I think I've been able to pick up from where you left off, continue the great work. And I think move us into an even, you know, into a stronger position. And definitely, I feel we've fully recovered from lockdown now, and I think evolved somewhat as well in some really, like, great, sort of great directions.   And I think we've also, and I've done this quite frequently when I've been in leadership roles, is I've tried to sort of streamline. And so sometimes with all organisations, particularly ones where a lot of people are very ideasy, you can spread yourselves too thinly, you can chase hairs, you can have an inconsistent practice because you're trying to do too much because you've got so many ideas. So I think one of the responsibilities of the chair is to sort of say, yes, these are all brilliant ideas, but where, where do we feel we can really make the most difference? Where should we? Where should we focus our energies to have the greatest impact? So that's definitely one of the, one of the responsibilities of the Chair is to sort of provide that, that leadership to, but to, you know, to acknowledge all the great ideas, but just to say, right what are we actually capable of doing as a leadership team, as an organisation, given it's entirely volunteer led.   H.J And especially maybe with a group of facilitators, you know, we do tend to like ideas, don't we? We've got all sorts of, you know, things that we think should happen and could happen, and so I guess containing them then and making sure that, yeah, some are driven forward, some aren't lost, and people are still on board with with all of what's going on is definitely quite a challenge. And thinking, also back to my time as chair, it felt like that was a period of, as you say, in COVID, treading water, just making sure that things sort of carried on really but definitely your era has been much more of a moving forwards, progressing, improving things, I think. Thinking then about highlights, I suppose, things that have really stood out for you, things that have gone really well. What are those?    J.C The highlights for me, from my time as chair the sort of the red carpet event every year is our conference. It's so much fun. It is two days of learning, connecting, getting totally out of your comfort zone, talking about facilitation, meeting your community, making friends, being grateful, thanking everybody for all that they're doing. So the two conferences in the time that I've been chair, they've both been really, really wonderful events for me, and I am so grateful for being part of them, even though, as Chair, I'm actually quite second hand to the conference because it's organised by a different group. But when I'm there at the conference, I have felt this is such a celebration of facilitation, it really is. And I've also been really pleased I've brought new people to the conference and introduced people to the leadership team and so forth. So that's the red carpet events.    I've absolutely, also really loved our leadership away days. And in fact, can you just describe them different? Yes, we're calling them retreats now. I also love, yes, our leadership retreat. So they've been absolutely wonderful events as well. And I remember thinking, Oh, I'm going to be facilitating facilitators, uh oh. So I remember that was thinking that was quite the challenge. And yet, you know, I think we've, I think I've been involved now in three of the retreats, and I think they've all, they've all gone well, and I've learned a lot about facilitation from, from running those, from designing those sessions, and from also witnessing people in our leadership team facilitating sessions within the session. So they've been really wonderful as well. And I guess I do love the in person activities, like I do love being in a room or a space with other people, so any opportunity to do that has been great, and I think inspired by meetups that I went to in London, I'm now based in Sheffield, and I've also kicked off like a facilitate Sheffield group. I'm not sure I would have done that had I not had the experience of being a chair. I've just realised sometimes it's just like, shall we do this? Shall we try and get something moving? And that's been really interesting as well, that sometimes you've just got to have a go.    H.J Oh, that's interesting. That the Sheffield meetup sort of grew out of your position as Chair, if you like. It's interesting thinking about that facilitating, facilitators bits? I totally Yeah, that really makes sense to me. That whole, you know, you, it's really good to see other people and experience other people's facilitation, but at the same time, I think possibly we are the worst participants, but it is nice to kind of get together and have that, have that all sharing of how we do things as well. I think it's quite inspirational.   J.C It's really, really inspirational for me. I find the diversity of people's practice, of their life experiences, the fact that people come from different parts of the UK, and we've all converged, actually, I think it's been in Manchester or Birmingham. So we've kind of all come together. I find that very, very interesting. And everyone's paths into facilitation have been quite different. So so for me, I kind of find those sessions are very opening up, and afterwards I go away and I've learned something that's often quite significant for me and I've then carried forward with me. So I'm not going to those sessions and think I'm going to boss everyone around. It's been, they're very collaborative.   H.J Definitely. No, that's been my experience as well, that feeling of collaboration. So what's changed, you know, quite a lot, probably in your time as chair, from this period of, you know, COVID, where things weren't moving forwards very much perhaps. What are the main changes you think you've seen in the last couple of years with the IAF England and Wales leadership team and board, but maybe beyond that as well?    J.C So there's been quite a lot of changes. I think facilitation itself as a sort of professional and area of expertise is more understood, known, celebrated and in demand than it's ever been. That's quite interesting. I think in the time I've been chair, I'm, I have a tendency to want to structure things, so I probably have brought in some structure more, perhaps some more structure than there was previously. And I've, as I said, maybe done some of that streamlining activity. And I think everybody that I know in IAF England and Wales is really keen to, you know, expand our community, welcome more people in ,work on the diversity. I think that we are slowly becoming more diverse. We acknowledge that there's a lot more to do in that space, but there's a sort of appetite and a sort of momentum around that now, we're not just talking about it, we're doing something about it. So, for example, most of the leadership team have now taken part in anti racism training, which is, you know, really, really important. So I think perhaps we were a little bit more focused than we were.    The other thing that I think changed is, and I think you 100% laid the foundations for this. I think we are more tightly or better aligned with the EME region for IAF. So I've participated in our, the regional like leadership team meetings, and they've been very interesting. And I think there's been a recognition in our chapter, in our community, we can all learn from each other. And when we've had people come to the conference from other other chapters that survive other geographies that's been really, really interesting and inspirational. So we can, we can learn so much from each other. And we've also, I think also we as a chapter have been able to do a little bit of support for other chapters as well. So that's been really great, too. So I guess I'm just trying to summarise what's changed. So I think a little bit more structure and focus, and also, yes, totally recovered from COVID and the lockdown era, and I'm feeling we probably contracted a little bit during that time period, as many organisations did, I feel we're now expanding.   H.J It's really interesting that Europe and Middle East Regional link as well, because I personally really value that diversity and looking outside, you know, our chapter, and seeing what other chapters are do, are doing, and, yeah, forging those links is a really, really nice thing to be doing I think.   J.C It's a wonderful opportunity. One of the things when we hear, it's easy to look at the news and think, Oh, so many bad, bad, dark things happening in the world. What I find is when you connect with people from other geographies, other cultures, when you form those links, when you extend your community, it just makes all those bad news stories, they seem a little less important, because on a very practical, like, I don't know, day to day basis, or you kind of you're ignoring all that. You're reaching out and saying, no, there is, there are, It is worth doing this stuff. It is worth connecting. It is worth still believing that we can change things through our facilitation practice. You know, I just, I like the aspect of it. I find, actually find this, I find this idea of being part of a global community, I find it very optimistic and positive.    H.J It's almost quite, quite a skill, I think, to be able to find that optimism. Because, as you say, you know, there's a lot of doom and gloom around but I really like that way of thinking about things. Find the kind of the good stuff in, you know, all that's going on around us. Okay, and then flipping that on its head, however, with any role, with any you know group such as we are, there will have been challenges. What have been the main challenges? In a few minutes?   J.C So one of the challenges has been my own time. So I have my own business. Sometimes I'm working full time, and then I'm supporting this activity in my free time. So that's been a personal challenge for me. The other personal challenge for me is with my desire for structure and focus, I've had to really temper that, because I have had to learn, and it's been really, really good for me, that we've got to let the ideas flow. We, people need that space to let the ideas flow, to connect. We can't, I've got a tendency to go straight into right what are we all going to do? Action, action, action. And that doesn't work with this community, because that, they that's not how this community operates. So it's been, for me that's been a tremendous learning curve, and I am now much, much more respectful and aware of that need to sort of have a lot more flow before you sort of, so that's been, that's been, as I said, it's been that's been quite challenging for me. And. And then, equally, it's also challenging that with the best one in the world, we are all volunteers, and everybody's time, you know, time constrained, or they have things going on in their personal lives which may inhibit their ability to do things, even if they're highly motivated to do that. And we are trying to be smart about this now, work at how we can outsource some of the more rote activities to to, like virtual assistance, so that we can, almost, like, use our time in a more clever and a smart way. And what I'm thinking, what are the other challenges have been? Well, it's always, you know, I think this is something we all suffer from, is, and I'm the, I'm also guilty of it is, is trying to do too much.   H.J And it's, I think, that bit about us all being, you know, we're all all volunteers. We're all doing this in our own time. We're all doing it because we are invested in our community, and we want it to be better, and we want more things from it, and we want it to still be the fantastic thing it is. But actually, you know, there's only so many hours in a day, and and then finding that time to do that, and the energy, and then collaborating and coordinating, coordinating that with with a whole heap of other people all around the country is, you know, it's definitely not an easy task.   J.C It's not easy at all. And I think at one point I was trying to, sort of almost like fly solo too much, and doing too much on my own. And then this year I've been really busy. And I, it was actually, this is a kind of a sort of, you know, people make New Year's decisions. So one of my decisions for 2024 was whatever I'm trying to do in life, I want to do that in collaboration with others. So I've been a much more collaborative leader in 2024 for our chapter, and I think that's been really beneficial for the chapter. So rather than thinking, I can, I'll do all this stuff on my lonesome, I've actually asked people to come in with me, and I think that's been much more successful for the chapter and for me, and again, it's another sort of smart way of working and sort of not being that kind of lonely leader marching up the mountain on their own. It's much better if you are, if you're doing stuff in small groups or with a partner. So that's just been a personal learning for me and a decision and a change of a change, like a change of sort of operation.   H.J So it sounds like there's been quite a lot of learning, you know, over the last couple of years for you as chair and probably for all of us as the leadership team as well. Thinking then about, you know, all that hard work that goes into making this stuff happen, and the IAF leadership team and the, you know, England, Wales, and the wider community, what do you think that that we kind of bring to people, you know, what? What's, what do people get from it?   J.C I think the most important thing that we offer is community. I think, I think many people who work in the facilitation space, I don't know if it's solo entrepreneurs, you know, or small businesses, and I think creating a community that's actually really easy to connect to, you can be in our community, don't have to be a member. You know, many people aren't members. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that there's a community that you can be part of, and we offer different ways of connecting. We have our online meetups, we have in person meetups, we have our conference and then I think what I've I've seen happen which is a very beautiful thing to witness. I have seen people who I know have only met through the conference or through the community start to do collaborations together, which shows you that these relationships are really, really building and developing and supporting people professionally. So I think that community thing is, we never did anything else, that's that's, for me, is the most important thing.    But the second thing, I think, is really important, is sharing practice and acknowledging when we see good work and supporting practice. And it can be really something quite practical like, has anyone done this type of thing? Can you recommend an exercise to do this? How do you price something so, so it can be, like the very practical things, but it can also be, I mean, at the conference, quite a lot of people will showcase something that perhaps they're still working on, in terms of offering it out to clients. It's a place where you can do some experimentation. I think that's just, I feel we are very much a community of practice, and I just think that's another huge benefit to all of not just the paid up members, but everybody in our community that we can support each other to develop practice, and we can learn from each other's practices.    H.J And it feels like that community, or our community, is growing all the time, and the more it grows, the more you discover new things. And you think, Oh, I didn't realise that was a thing that's interesting. I want to know more about that. And like, it doesn't seem that there are any edges to facilitation most. It's like just a constantly changing picture, which for me is someone who's got a fairly short attention span, I think is great. Always like, Oh, I've found something new to do, to learn about. So what do you think, then, is next for IAF, England, Wales and the broader community, whether members or, you know, not members.    J.C We've done quite a lot of work on, like, quite futuristic visioning, and I think we slightly rode back from that, because it almost became something that was inhibiting our more immediate development and growth. So I quite like the fact that we've been a little bit more realistic about our capacity. And we've kind of, we're focusing on a few things we want to do really well. So one of them is this wonderful podcast that I'm on today.   H.J Of course.   J.C  We want to support all of our meetups, online and in person. We want the conference to be a great success, I think, we, we obviously want to continuing offering this. It's very hard to sometimes crystallise it, but this informal kind of community support. I think, where I think there's potential is I think we could actually promote ourselves or promote the practice of facilitation more on social media, and perhaps be more structured about that. I would really like to use the, we have the IAF Global website, which is currently being updated. I would like to see that also used as a vehicle to promote, share, practice and support the community. I feel there's quite a lot of things we can do around diversity and also connecting up with our global community. So these are some of the things I find interesting and exciting, and I feel we could do more in these spaces, we could perhaps do more to support other chapters in our region as well. So there's some of the topics, I think, Oh, that's interesting. I feel my energy rising when I think about that. So there's quite a lot of opportunities. And it's just there's, again, there's so many opportunities and ideas, and there's only so much time and so much money at the bank. So so I think lots of opportunities, but we have to take a realistic perspective on it as well.   H.J Opportunities tempered with a bit of fear, bit of can we actually do this stuff? And your time as chair is coming to an end at the end of this year, I think. So what's next for you? What are you going to do with all those spare hours?   J.C So I have really, even though it's been very challenging and time consuming and sometimes frustrating, I've absolutely loved the opportunity to be a situational or servant leader for this chapter. It's been a wonderful opportunity for me. It's reconnected me with a lot of leadership practice that I hadn't really done for a little while. So so I'm really keen to stay involved with our chapter and stay on the leadership team and support a new chair, whoever that will be in 2025. I also want to continue developing my own facilitation practice. And I think the thing that's come out of it for me, there's two things, one more opportunity to do leadership in life, and I'm pretty confident I want to replace, replace, I'm definitely going to be pursuing, probably a trusteeship with another organisation as I think that's a really nice segue from from what I've done here, but a slightly different way of doing that. So I like to be busy, and I, I like to serve. I don't want to say be too idealistic and optimistic, but there is something wonderful about feeling that you are doing some good public service, or some good service for others without it being a huge strain on yourself. It's really good to know that you are committing some personal time to some activities, which we hope are going to do good in the world.   H.J Thank you so much for talking to me today. I've just got one last question, and that is, how can we get in touch with you? So if people want to talk more to you, what, how should we get in touch with you?   J.C The easiest way to get hold of me is via LinkedIn. I've got a LinkedIn profile and I'm on LinkedIn very frequently. That's guaranteed. And you can also reach me by the email address for the chair.   H.J We'll put any contact emails and your LinkedIn link in the show notes afterwards.    J.C Brilliant.    H.J Thank you so much, Jane, and I will see you soon.    J.C Thank you very much. What a wonderful opportunity to be interviewed by you. Thank you so much Helen.    H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF, England and Wales.   N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved, all of the links are on our website. Facilitationstories.com   H.J And to make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use?   N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?   H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about?   N.W Send us an email at podcast@IAF-Englandwales.org .   H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more facilitation stories.   N.W Until then, thank you for listening.  

San Deigo Comic Con season is here and LEGO didn't disappoint, FORTNITE (all that needs to be said), and your August shopping list. All of this and much more on this week's Bricking News! P.S. Humble brag for my latest commissioned LEGO Model! Set Review: 76291 X-Men X-JetRebrickable MOC Review: Deadpool Mask by A_C Thank you, Patrons! - Bellefonte Bricks Studio, Ryan Moore, Franco Portelli,  Jimmy Tucker, Ryan S, David, Matthew Vanden Boogart, Paul Snellen, Lee Jackson, Pop's Block ShopFortnite! - LEGO.comMy Football Stadium!Tennis SurpriseMimic is backGodzilla! - YouTube.comAugust shopping listMona Lisa - Instagram.comNew BrickheadzShadow Helmet seriesHarry PotterDid Feige get a say? - YouTube.comback to school!Insider's sale (UK only)Super Mario WorldMinecraft birthday!Jedi BobDungeon's & Dragons MinifiguresSDCC boothSupport the Show.See some of the designs I've built - REBRICKABLE.COMHead over to Back2brick.com for links to the latest LEGO set discounts!Support the podcast through our affiliate links AND join the Back 2 Brick Patreon!Have a question? Want to be a guest? Send me a message!backtobrick@gmail.comBack 2 Brick Podcast is not an affiliate nor endorsed by the LEGO Group.LEGO, the LEGO logo, the Minifigure, and the Brick and Knob configurations are trademarks of the LEGO Group of Companies. ©2023 The LEGO Group.

FS69 Social Presencing Theater with Rosie Cripps   In this episode Nikki talks to Rosie Cripps, a facilitator and evaluator who helps build social movements and evaluate complex systems, about Social Presencing Theater. They talk about: What Social Presencing Theater is, its origins and some of the tools and techniques that sit under it; The role of the facilitator in creating psychological safety and responding in the moment without knowing the details of the issue being explored; How Rosie first experienced Social Presencing Theater and what interested her about it; “with social presencing theater, you can get to the crux of the matter so quickly, and so, kind of precisely, and so clearly see what needs to change without barely exchanging any words at all.” A workshop that Rosie ran with Ann Nkune at the IAF England and Wales conference using the tool “Stuck”; “Some people said it made them not just think differently, but feel differently”. How this experience led Rosie to attending a recent Social Presencing Theater course and the learning from that experience; Rosie's thoughts on how to take this forward, including a call out for collaborators; A full transcript is below. Links Today's guest: Rosie Cripps on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosie-cripps/ Today's subject Presencing Institute: https://presencinginstitute.org/ U School: https://www.u-school.org/ Arawana Hayashi Social Presencing Theater website: https://arawanahayashi.com/spt/ Social Presencing Theater The Art of Making a True Move (book), Arawana Hayashi   To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript N.W Hello, and welcome to facilitation stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Nikki Wilson (N.W), and my guest today is Rosie Cripps (R.C). So welcome Rosie.   R.C Hi, thank you for having me.   N.W So to start off with, could you tell us a little bit more about you and what you do?   R.C Yeah. So I'm a facilitator and an evaluator. I help build inclusive community-led movements and as part of this, so I've helped teach architecture students, Appreciative Inquiry, and I've been exploring the idea of universities as anchor organisations to help communities become resilient and self-sustaining. And I evaluate kind of complex, messy systems. And I usually do that using outcome harvesting, which uses lots of facilitation. So in summary, I kind of help build social movements and evaluate complex systems.   N.W Great. And so today, we're going to be talking about Social Presencing Theater. So for listeners who don't know what it is, Please, could you tell us a little bit more about it, and how a typical session might work?   R.C Okay, so this is very different from my day to day work. First of all, Social Presencing Theater uses mindfulness, movement, and reflection, to create quite dramatic shifts in perspective. So it can be used at an individual level, or with teams, with big organisations, or in quite complex systems around social justice issues, or climate change, or something like that. It was created by Arawana Hayashi, and she's a dance teacher. But it's mainly been applied across sectors by someone called Otto Scharmer. He's an academic at MIT and he basically coded what are the principles of innovation, and he turned them into a theory called ‘Theory U'. And that's all open source, because he wants as many people as possible to be tackling the complex issues of our time. But they together, Otto and Arawana, they co founded the Presencing Institute, and they use Social Presencing Theater as a means for helping people to progress past habitual thought patterns and into these principles of innovation in whatever context they're in. So I personally find Social Presencing powerful, because you can work through very kind of tricky issues where we might feel stuck or unable to move forward very quickly, sometimes taking you to a place of being more stuck. But at least you have different insight. But without having to reveal at any point, what the issue is or what the tricky situation is. And it can be also very bonding for the people who are doing it. So your group that you're working with, it's very bonding, even if you're working with a complete group of strangers.   N.W And so how might a typical session run?   R.C Yeah, a typical session. So this is tricky, because I'm new to it. And there's also lots of different methods that sit under it. Some individual based tools and techniques, and some are for very large groups. But they think the way that Otto Scharmer mainly uses it with kind of fortune 500 companies and big organisations is he uses something called 4D mapping, which was co created by I think Otto Scharmer, and Arawana. And people who also use organisational constellations, and people who use presencing more generally. And 4D mapping, basically, you map out a system using people. And then you sense together a different potential future for that system. So it allows you to see in kind of 3D what the system is currently looking like, and how it could potentially shift. And that can be really powerful. And systems mapping, because it's very malleable. I like traditionally in systems mapping, I would kind of draw out a system, and it's very fixed. Whereas in this situation, you're sensing together as a group, where are the opportunities for movement, and that can give a lot of insights into what should change.   N.W Okay. And so what would the role of the facilitator be in that environment? And how would that be different from other types of facilitation? Would you say?   R.C Yeah, I think, I think in that context, because you don't always know what the actual topic is, there's kind of two parts to it. So one is it's about making the situation safe, because I think generally, we're not used to moving as a society. We're not used to using movement and so the psychological safety is really important. And then the other aspect is you're going in blind. So you're kind of sensing the room as opposed to, in a normal situation, you can be kind of tracking the flow of the room by listening to people in their conversation them expressing what's, what's going on. Whereas in this context, it's much more about sensing what's happening in the room. And responding to that in that moment. So it's quite different actually supposed to be a lot more emotionally responsive to what they would normally be as a facilitator, I think.   N.W And, and as you've said, this is quite different to the kind of tools and techniques and facilitation work you'd normally do. So when did you first come across Social Presencing Theater? And what was it that interested you about it?   R.C So I was reflecting back recently about which of the workshops and where are the places in my life where I've had the biggest personal transformational shifts, and which have been the workshops that have made those shifts last, and they've all involved movement. And so there's two workshops I've been to in my life. The first was in my early 20s, which is kind of a week-long workshop which involved movement. And, again, involved no talking. And then I volunteered at the Never Done Before Festival, which is run by Myriam Hadnes's community, and just stumbled across a Social Presencing Theater Workshop. And in that workshop, it was online, it was only like an hour, I think.  It was people from all over the world who had never met before. And yet, even in that very short amount of time, we just did some small movements.You know, just sat at my desk, and then also some group movements just in breakout rooms, and it totally shifted my perspective. And I felt incredibly close to the people that I'd been working with, even though I'd never met them before and it was all through a computer. So it kind of made me think, Okay, I'm personally finding this stuff really powerful and interesting. But is that you know, other people's experiences. And before kind of, like throwing myself into that, I guess I really wanted to explore that further, and see if other people were getting these shifts and transformations as well. Which is why, and then I started talking to Megan Evans, he's been a kind of mentor to me, and to Ann Nkune, who I know, to a shared love of Appreciative Inquiry and time to think. So I just literally read Arawana's book, and then suggested to Ann that we run a session at the IAF Conference, which we did this year. So that's kind of how I came to it, it's not been a planned route. But I found it personally very powerful. And it's also linked in to actually, after I had children, I started dancing. And I had a complete shift really, again, in my perspective, when I just I think I lived so much in my mind, when I started dancing, I had this dance teacher who didn't teach us kind of choreographed moves, he just taught us how our body wanted to move. And I didn't know if you can actually even call it dance, it's probably just me moving around terribly, but I found it really powerful and healing, just getting out of my head and into my body. And I think that's a lot of what this is about. It's about just getting rid of those habitual thought patterns and kind of living in our minds all the time. And being in our bodies and noticing that our bodies have a lot of wisdom and knowledge that we just waste, we just waste. And the thing I found with social presencing, is we spend so much time talking especially you know, as in groups, as facilitators, we see so much talk and conversation. Whereas with social presencing theater, you can get to the crux of the matter so quickly, and so, kind of precisely, and so clearly see what needs to change without barely exchanging any words at all.   N.W Okay. And so you've mentioned that you ran a session at this year's IAF England and Wales conference,with Ann Nkune, and so could you tell us a little bit more about that?   R.C Yeah, so I mentioned earlier, there's, there's quite a lot of tools that sit under social presencing theater. So our IAF conference workshop focused around a method called ‘stuck' and in that you take a situation where you're not moving or thriving or something's not moving forward, or maybe you're just kind of stuck in your comfort zone and you you're not really willing to step out. And you embody that situation in whatever form you want to take. You form a statue and you call that sculpture one and then you kind of sense in your body you let yourself move to a different future. that wants to emerge through you. You move to a second position, and then you call that sculpture two, and you give each sculpture a phrase. And that in itself sounds very bizarre, but is very powerful. So for instance, the other day, I had a situation where I had to report a huge amount of data to a group of people. And I was feeling incredibly overwhelmed. And so I put myself in this stuck position where I had my kind of arms up in front of my head, and was almost crouching down, and my word was overwhelmed. And then I moved into a second position, which gave me a lot of clarity. And I had another phrase, which was, they need to make sense of it. And so I in my head, I've been getting stuck over and over with trying to make sense of all these overwhelming amounts of data, when in actual fact, it kind of shift the perspective straight way for me in that I didn't need to be making sense, but I just needed to be presenting them with data. So that's just an example of where you might use stuck. So we use stuck. And then you start off working through your own stuck practices, even from sculpture one to sculpture two. And then you extend that out as a group. So in our workshop, and in most social presencing situations, we don't at any point, know what issue someone is working through. So you'll do your sculpture one to sculpture two on your own, and then you extend that out as a group without explaining what it is that you're working through. And the other people in our group will help extend out our stuck situation. So they become other players in the system. And they help enhance that feeling of stuck, and also give a different perspective on it. So So in my situation where I was stuck with feeling overwhelmed with all this data, I might have someone standing in front of me who's representing all the hundreds of interviews that I've done. And then I might have someone stood behind me, who is representing the people that I have to show all this data to. And then we would move together as a group, so they wouldn't know what this issue is about at all, but they might look at me and say, You look pained or, or I'm seeing confusion, something like that. And then we'd all move together with no idea where each other we're going to move or any sense of where we should move, we just move wherever feels right at the time. And then we'll move collectively together into a second sculpture. And then again, they'll give their perspective on the situation. So they might say, you know, you look freed or relieved or something like that. And the other people's insights can be just as valuable as your own. And I think for me, and our IAF session, that was what people found most powerful is working through something as a group, without anyone in the group knowing what it was about, except for that one individual. And even though as a group members, for example, I've done this a number of times, even in situations where I don't know what the person's going through, I can personally find it very moving as well. I think just by moving together as a group is very bonding in itself and illuminating. So we did that at the IAF conference, we did this stuck on our own and then stuck as a group. And then we use time to think, to reflect on what those processes felt like to the groups involved.   N.W Okay, and so you've mentioned, I think that this session was for you a bit of an exploration of how to use this. So what were your personal kind of takeaways from that session?   R.C I think there were a lot of takeaways, actually. I think the main thing was that it was something other people found powerful. So I went in thinking, okay, is this just me, in fact, I was there the night before in my hotel, and I was thinking, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? Because I'm going to a conference I've never been to before, co facilitating with someone I've never met before, on a subject that I've only read a book about. You know,I didn't know whether this is going to be something that anyone else would get anything from at all. So the main takeaway was, oh, wow, okay other people are finding this useful as well. And I think having spoken to a few people after the conference, they said, you know, it's one of the sessions where they were able to go deepest. And again, I think that's because they didn't have to talk about anything that they were kind of working through. So as a facilitator that's quite strange because you're kind of blind to all of that. But it's really nice to be able to create a space where people can work through some quite tricky personal issues. So yeah, there was that, that it was helpful. Some people said it made them not just think differently, but feel differently. And that, you know, someone else mentioned that there's something that they've been talking to people about for months and months and months, and just couldn't see a way out of this situation that then had done that, and then could instantly see a way through. So I was like, Okay, great. I feel like it's, it's a useful tool. So that was the main thing. I also noticed that maybe it isn't for everyone, and getting the context is going to be right. And I think for Ann and I, we both kind of felt that we recognise that it was probably more powerful, like using movement is more powerful than we originally expected. And thinking about how we prepare the room for the emotions, it can trigger as well, I think is quite important. But yeah, just the overwhelming thing I took away was the kind of desire to experiment with other people more, to try it out with other people more. And so then that evening, I think went back to my hotel room and signed up to a course in Berlin to properly train in it.   N.W Great. And so you've neatly led into my next question, really, about that course, and what happened on the course? And what did you learn there?   R.C Yeah, so the course was a two day course with Arawana Hayashi herself. So that was really exciting, because she kind of founded it all. And it was with 43 other people from all over the world, actually, but mainly from Europe. I think there were four people from the UK. And we went through all the different types of techniques, which she describes in her book called Social Presencing Theater. And yeah, it was, it was just incredibly insightful. There were lots of different techniques that we tried out, some, you know, just on our own, some as a whole group of 43 people, some in small groups, all that can be used in different contexts. And again, I think by the second day all of us were just feeling like, why would you bother talking anymore? It just seems like such a waste of time, when you can kind of get so much clarity and connection with others in silence, you know, just by moving together. But it's called Social Presencing Theater, but it's not about theater, it is just about moving and embodying. There's no acting element to it. There's nothing theatrical actually about it at all. It's just a way of using, thinking with our bodies as well as our minds. Yeah. So the training was fantastic, gave me loads of ideas and met loads of connections, lots of people who were also thinking about using it in all kinds of leadership scenarios. And actually some massive issues about, you know, tackling climate change and deforestation in the Amazon and all these different frameworks, people using it for and all of them finding it ,yeah, a really interesting method of breaking just habitual thought patterns and approaches to situations and thinking about things really differently.   N.W Okay. And so I know that you, you weren't on the course very long ago. So this might be a difficult question to answer. But what are your current thoughts on how you might take it forward and put it into practice? Yeah,   R.C Yeah, so I think main thing at the moment, which is very much just a thought process, to help serve this, but Ann and I are thinking about experimenting, doing another session at London Lab, which is linked to the London IAF group. So we're thinking about doing that in maybe September or October. And I'm personally thinking about how I built it into my work with systems thinking and systems mapping. So it's part of the evaluation work I do, we do a lot of systems thinking work. And I think using it in that context is really helpful, because it's a really malleable way of looking at how we can change and shift systems, but also even the stuck practice, which is just within individuals. You know, through all my systems based work, the one thing that stands out is that unless we change people, you know, we can't change systems. And the stuck practice itself is a way of really helping people shift their perspective on their role within a system and what they can do individually to change things. So yeah, I'm thinking about how I can build into my work. And I'm also just looking for as many people as possible to collaborate with who'd like to experiment with Ann and I on this.   N.W Great. And you mentioned earlier that in your IAF session, you combined this with time to think, are there other kinds of facilitation tools and techniques that you think could work well alongside social presencing theater if you're building this out into something you would use in other contexts?   R.C Yeah, I would say on that, that Ann and I used time to think at the end of the session, and we were also thinking about it from an Appreciative Inquiry perspective, because that's what both of us use primarily in our work. Having said that, at the training, it really shifted my perspective, because I think one of the things which they tried to focus on with social presencing is, is moving out of these habitual thought patterns. So they just focus on what did you do? What did you see? What did you feel? And so I think probably, I wouldn't use time to think with it anymore, possibly, or maybe use elements of time to think that not, not use exactly the same principles. And I think that also relates back to the psychological safety element as well, you're never really conceptualising with anyone, what it is you're working through, maybe not even yourself. And I think that's actually helpful, because we get so bogged down in our thought patterns. So I think keeping it very just in the moment in your body, like touching, not overthinking anything is quite important with the process. So yeah, what tools would I use it with is possibly Appreciative Inquiry, maybe as a precursor to that. And then systems mapping and any group work where you're working through individual challenges collectively as a group, maybe it's support groups or something like that.   N.W That's great. So if listeners would like to find out more about social presencing theater, where should they look?   R.C Okay, so there's a book by Arawana Hayashi called social presencing theater. I think it's called The Art of Making a True move. There's also a website. So Arawana has a social presencing theater website, which is really interesting. And then there's also this wider context of ‘Theory U'. So Otto Scharmer, and Arawana have a website called the U-school, literally the letter U hyphen school. And that gives a wider framework to the work as well, which is, they have loads of open source training as well, which is really interesting, if anyone was interested in that.   N.W Brilliant and how about if people want to get in touch with you after this? Particularly as you've got a call out there for collaborators and fellow experimenters as it were.   R.C Yeah, probably just LinkedIn is best for me.   N.W Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Rosie. That's been really interesting. And I hope to hear more about where you, where you take this forward. But thank you for sharing where you've got to today so far.   R.C Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And I look forward to hopefully hearing to some people who are interested in experimenting.   Outro   H.J So listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of facilitation stories, the community podcast of IAF England and Wales.   N.W If you'd like to find out more about the IAF and how to get involved all of the links on our website facilitationstories.com   H.J To make sure you never miss an episode, why not subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you use.   N.W We're always on the lookout for new episode ideas. So is there a fabulous facilitator you think we should talk to?   H.J Or something interesting emerging in the world of facilitation you think listeners need to hear about N.W Then send us an email at podcast@IAF-EnglandWales.org   H.J We hope you'll join us again soon for more facilitation stories.   N.W  Until then, thank you for listening.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. For this week's episode of APEX Express, we are joined by Yi Thoj and Belle Vang from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF) who will go into depth about these very tough but very real and needed conversations about abusive relationships, especially within the Hmong community, where 70% of Hmong Americans are under 24 years old.   Important Resources: Hmong Innovating Politics website California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures website Healthy vs. Unhealthy Relationships infographic How to Spot Abusive Relationships infographic Do you know someone in an abusive relationship? infographic Are you in an abusive relationship? infographic What does consent look like? infographic Transcript Cheryl: Good evening, everyone! You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl and tonight is an What is AACRE?, you might ask. Well comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality (AACRE) network, leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement, building and support for Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  For tonight's episode, we will be spotlighting the work of AACRE group Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP. Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from HIP will be in conversation with Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from the California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures, also known as CHAN-BOF.  They'll be in discussion on the importance of teen dating violence awareness, especially in the Hmong community as they are among the youngest of all ethnic groups in the United States with about 70% of Hmong Americans being under 24 years old.   I know somebody, you might want to learn more about HIP and CHAN-BOF so I'll let our speakers introduce themselves. And don't forget. All of their socials and websites will be linked in the show notes.    Belle: Hi, everyone, thank you so much for making time in your night to join us. We really appreciate it. Today we're going to be having a panel discussion in recognition of Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month. I really want to thank CHAN-BOF for collaborating with Hmong Innovating Politics. We're very excited to do this collab together. We're going to do a brief introduction. So, hi, everyone. My name is Bella Gaonoucci Vang. I'm with Hmong Innovating Politics as a Communication and Narrative Manager. If you're not one of our followers, make sure to follow us.  Hmong Innovating Politics is a grassroots organization focused on strengthening political power within Hmong communities through civic engagement. And with that being said, I'll go ahead and pull in one of our HIP members, Yi.  Yi Thoj: Hi everyone, my name is Yi and I use she, her pronouns, and I been a HIP young adult for around three to four years. I'm also working on the Bright Spots project.  Belle: And then if we can have Pana join the conversation.  Pana: Hi, everyone. I am Pana with CHAN-BOF champion stands for California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future. We were two grassroots organizations in community and outreach and this past year we have been able to provide mobile direct services to our Hmong survivors of domestic violence across the Central Valley– so from Sacramento to Fresno. Jennifer Xiong: All right. And that leaves me. Hi, everyone. My name is Jennifer Xiong. I use she/her pronouns and I work as a program specialist with CHAN-BOF and Banak, who actually serves as my supervisor. I'm really excited and happy to be here and really grateful for HIP for giving us a space time and platform to have this conversation  Belle: Thank you again CHAN-BOF for collaborating with us here at HIP. We really appreciate all the work y'all do in the community. I know y'all individually are really great folks. I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation. In your experience, I'm just asking everyone in the panel, where are some cultural norms or expectations within the Hmong community regarding relationships and dating, and that could be anything that you'd like to share from your own personal experiences. Pana: I think I can go. So I think growing up in the eighties, cultural expectations for women, Hmong women, We were expected to just cook, clean, and take care of our younger siblings and our parents. Right? So if you were dating, your relatives would just look down on us. Dating was frowned upon. I remember it was expected that if a guy is interested in you, they would have to come by your parent's house and your parents would have to approve. I remember guys come in and during our teenage years, my mom would have to be present. Right. My parents are really strict. Their limit was they could only stay two hours. And so my mom would ask fast questions. If they don't qualify, they don't meet expectations, they better be out ASAP. My parents are really, really strict.  So those were our expectations back in the 80s. We weren't really allowed to date during my younger days that's what we had to go through. Yi Thoj: I feel like a lot of the gender expectations of my generation is still very much by heteronormative and patriarchal norms and construct.  I'm the youngest of 7 girls, so all of my, 6 older sisters– they're fierce and they're also wonderful, powerful women who have helped me navigate through a lot of the contentions that I held before, interacting with romantic encounters and engagements. And so I think having that model definitely helped me navigate through my experiences as well. I feel like our parents are like, oh, if you want to engage in romantic encounters at a young age, that's welcome. But thankfully, they also didn't pressure us to do so. Jennifer Xiong: It's got me thinking about my own experiences, very little experiences, I might add. I think about some of the things my mom has said to me, which still stick around, it's kind of like embedded in my mind where she says Oh, ([Jennifer speaks in Hmong) meaning when your partner is visiting or at our home, you guys shouldn't be in your bedrooms. You should be out in the living rooms because that's really disrespectful. It, it invites negative perceptions about the person and about the relationship and it is a form of disrespect toward the, the parents and the home. I've also felt and seen from my older cousins or distant relatives who've gotten married– I think it's centered a lot around saving face. I remember hearing stories about my cousins. If they had gone out and they came home late, for example, and the parents were extremely displeased or unhappy, and they're like, no, you dishonored me and my daughter. You have to marry my daughter now because you took her home late, even if they didn't do anything salacious, so to speak. I'd hear those a lot. And, for me, those are always scary. Like, Oh my gosh, they would just do that! And you're a kid and you're growing up hearing these and actually, I think I heard it more commonly than I expected– people marrying young because of the whole consequence of arriving home late from a date or a hangout. So those are some of my experiences or what I've, I heard and witnessed. Yeah.  Belle: Thank y'all for sharing. I love hearing about your experiences. I It's really interesting how we all have different experiences, but it's still in the same realm of a very similar community, right? Very tight knit community. I echo both Jennifer and Yee's experience where my parents are a little bit more lax, but at the same time, it's like, make sure you marry someone who's a quality person. Right? I think that's really telling of how we see dating in the Hmong community. We don't date to date, right? We date to commit forever. And especially, I know all of us on this panel are women identifying and that can be a very dangerous tool, right? To just date to only marry– you're willing to put up with a lot, even if it's not really what you want for yourself, because the way the culture shapes us is if you are dating, you're only dating seriously. It's not to explore, not to be curious about yourself. And so I really appreciate the way that y'all frame it and the way that you share your experiences too. And I know we touched a little bit on this as well, but kind of gauging what it looks like to be in a healthy relationship. How would you say a healthy relationship is defined within the Hmong community? And what are qualities that you consider important? For a positive and respectful relationship within the community? Pana: So you all heard the word [Pana speaks in Hmong], right [Pana speaks in Hmong] right? [Pana speaks in Hmong] We We hear this over and over. I think even with my age, I've heard that. I'm pretty sure some of y'all have heard that to even my parents or friends or family, right? To me, what's considered positive in a relationship is really compromising and allowing you to have your own space, really meeting each other in the middle, trusting each other, having boundaries, appreciating each other, respecting, having that respect, right? Effective communication, being able to communicate with each other and having empathy. Also consent. Really having the permission of something to happen or agreement. Be able to agree with something and being committed to your relationship.  Jennifer Xiong: Yeah, I wanted to add, and also share that I think a lot of the times traditional expectations around what a healthy relationship looks like in the Hmong community generally entails being constricted and confined to your pre established roles that have been gone for generations. But I think that how we can further redefine that nowadays is to really think about how everything that Pana has already listed and shared. Right. I think it's important that those things like healthy boundaries and having balance within a relationship, I feel a lot of those things should be contextualized to the relationship. That's one, but also, I think it should be formed organically, which is difficult, and there will always be ongoing conversations about what a romantic commitment looks like, and what does that mean for the exact couple, but I think it's important to have an ongoing conversation about it, and then also it's important to understand these layers, that , If the couple is both Hmong, it's important to put that in context, and then it's also, what if it's a multiracial or multiethnic relationship? I think that's also very important. Understanding the values, and how these things can be formed organically as well. There are certain learned behaviors, beliefs, attitudes, that we pick up as we grow up and what the kind of relationships and dynamics we witnessed as we're growing up and then getting or getting involved in our own romantic relationships with people, and the things we witness and see can also really shape the way we go into relationships and the way we show up as partners.  I really don't know how to define it within the Hmong community, but I will say that I have seen when relationships and dynamics of dating are built on a foundation of patriarchy, it can, relating back to what Yi and Pana says, it can build really toxic and concerning, unhealthy relationship dynamics of power and control, and not knowing how to allow your partner to have autonomy to themselves, or knowing that it's two different people coming in together to a relationship. Power and control, when it gets mixed into this relationship, it can become really unhealthy and toxic. So I think it's also about unlearning those and realizing that certain attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs don't serve in creating a healthy relationship between a partnership or a romantic relationship. Within the Hmong community, a lot of us I've seen unlearning those behaviors and attitudes that we may have witnessed and maybe even internalized growing up. To answer the second part of the question what qualities are considered important for a positive respectful Relationship. I think it's really all that you you both named. Those are important like compromise and y'all named so many other great stuff, but then I was also just cranking up the things in my mind, but I just want to echo back what Yi and Pana said, and I'll leave it at that. Yi Thoj: What Jennifer just shared, about what we witnessed growing up sparked something in my mind as well about the media that we consumed growing up too. I watched a ton of Tyler Crohn's and Southeast Asian media growing up, and so much of the representations of love in there. It's so romanticized that abuse is okay. Non consensual engagements is okay. The media and real life relationships that are reflected and also modeled throughout our lives hold such a big factor into how we view love growing into a young adult and further. I know it definitely impacted me because I was always like, Oh, I think that's what love is, right? That's what it's showing on TV and things like that. Yeah, definitely holds weight.  Belle: Yeah, I love that you mentioned that Yi. I didn't really seriously start dating until I was in college and a lot of our generation grew up watching kdramas. Like, oh so romantic, super rich Boy is in love with super poor girl and he dictates her life and buys her everything like so romantic. And I tell my partner now that i'm married, if you ever do anything like in kdramas we are not messing around. That is not cool I don't want you to decide anything for me. I don't want you to pretend like you're in the hospital just as a prank You know boys over flowers. It's really interesting how love is framed growing up and how, just like you said, it's super romanticized. And like, you know how K dramas, you feel that excitement, like that, it's not necessarily love, right? That's just the thrill of being in something new, experiencing something different, but not necessarily love itself. And I really resonate with what you said earlier, Yi, about how it's really important to form those healthy boundaries and organically. And I really closely ties to Pana's comment about being able to create a consensual relationship and, Just like Jennifer said to like dismantling that patriarchy and foundation that we were built on.  We;re Belle: Learning those things are really hard to because initially I thought that drama was what love was supposed to be, but love is supposed to be safe and supposed to protect you, make you feel like you belong. Right? Because we like do grow up in a society that perpetuates love in honestly a violent way, I also just kind of want to know like y'all's thoughts on do you think there's enough awareness about dating violence within our communities, particularly the Hmong community? And how do you feel like it's generally perceived or even discussed amongst one another? Pana: I actually think there's not much awareness happening in the Hmong community. We really need to continue and bring more awareness. And it's awareness. Prevention. Intervention. We need to continue to do that. Some parents don't talk much to their youths about teen dating violence, what's healthy and what's not healthy, or actually like what to look for in a relationship.  In my household, I have only boys. And so we talk about safe sex, healthy boundaries, healthy relationship. What would they like to see in a relationship. I do this because, I've had experience working in the domestic violence field, sexual assault field for a long time. And plus, that's something that I never got from my parents. So my goal was, from now on, when I have my kids, these are stuff that I'm going to teach them. And so I kept my goals, you know, that was something that I told myself that I promised myself that I would do this, to continue to teach my kids healthy boundary, healthy relationship and dating violence., Most parents were taught when they were young you're going to get married and just have a good life, have a good family.  Yi Thoj: All points that are so valid and so true. There are generational gaps, between the elders and ourselves and myself. My parents are around mid 60s. As much as I think I try to bridge that gap sometimes, I think youth just don't have the language as well to fully explain to them.  There's even the conversation about like mental health and how romantic relationships are embedded in mental health and even that in itself is a difficult conversation to start. More tangible resources to learn more about communication in terms of learning the Hmong language and whatnot would definitely help with outreach and building awareness in the community. But I think a lot of recent events as well have also shown to me about where The reflection of culture and the communities as well Which I would also like to provide some sort of affirmation for any youth who's watching this that these contentions and frictions within the community– it's never a reflection of you. You know, it's always a reflection of the larger culture and what is happening. And something that we all need to advocate for and invest into to change.  Jennifer Xiong: yeah. I agree that Bottom line, there isn't enough awareness about dating violence within the Hmong community on many different fronts, like Pana mentioned, the prevention piece and the intervention piece. How does someone recognize or learn to recognize signs of I might be in a toxic, unhealthy relationship that is or can eventually lead into something that's violent? Or maybe I am in a current relationship where there is violence, but I don't know how to pick up on the signs and actually realize that, hey, I'm not in a safe place in this relationship, or in a safe relationship.  And then if your loved ones or family members or friends are recognizing it from an outside perspective, like, we lack a lot of resources and information out there for our community to engage with to learn how to intervene or also recognize it among our loved ones and the people we care about if they may be in those types of dynamics and relationships. And then when we do recognize it, how do we step in and help? What do we do? How can we help? And yeah, so bottom line, there isn't enough resources out there. I think it's still really on the, I guess the loose term, up and up. I really have a lot of faith and hope and I've seen, the work continue to expand and grow and obviously CHAN-BOF is a part of that, along with so many other organizations, statewide organizations that are trying to build more resources and information and push it out there into our communities, so that they know this information, they have access to it and can tap into it with our youth and young adults , and maybe even with our older folks or generations, cause I know you mentioned brought up a really great point too,in that , there's different gaps or different ways of understanding how to talk about dating violence within the Hmong community. Pana: Yeah, I remember my parents would tell me, [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] and I'm like I never understood that. And so growing up, getting older, I kind of understood it. And again, they said the same thing. We were talking, me and my kids were sitting in the table and we're talking about healthy relationship and stuff. What do you look for? How would the relationship look like? What's healthy? And then again, my dad says, yeah [Pana speaks in Hmong]  And my son was like, I don't understand that mom. It was just very generalized, and I had to like recorrect that. This is what he means. My definition of what my dad said was Look for a healthy relationship. Get to know the person Date them Belle: I love that example Pana because growing up everyone always told me that, and I took it at face value. You know when we speak in moments like poetry, right? but growing up I took that at face value saying like when you grow up make sure you marry someone who has Power, who has good reputation in the community, and then As I got older, my mom's like, that's never what I was telling you. Jennifer Xiong: I was just telling you, marry someone who makes you happy. And I was like, Oh, how come you didn't just say it that way? Then like you put it in a way that I was like, Oh man, I have to make sure I marry someone who's brings honor to my family, right? Like what a Mulan way of thinking. But I feel like that's always how I really perceive dating. And tying how Hmong is very much like poetry in our communities, I really like what Yi's comment earlier about how there's not really a lot of terminology in our community for even awareness about the mental health in our community. It's very much how medical terms have only really come to fruition in our community within the past like 50 years. We don't have anything regarding terms that we can use for mental health or dating violence, like the only thing we can use is sick, like that's pretty much how you say when you talk about mental health.   You just say basically, you have a sickness in your head, but there's not actual terms. When we talk about diabetes, like, [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] which literally translates to sweet blood or blood. Well, that is sweet. I hope to see, the next, I don't want to wait 50 years. I hope in the next 20 years there is verbiage that can help the community decipher and break down and bring more awareness to the violence that's being perpetrated in our communities as well. Belle: I love this conversation. I really love that. You showed examples of your son, and it really feels like how intergenerationally we think. We all think so differently, even though we have good intentions it doesn't get translated across the board. I kind of want to elaborate a little bit more when we talked about how it's really important to have consent when it comes to dating, how you really teach your sons that. Would you mind elaborating a little bit more about what consent looks like when it comes to dating, your perspective and how you see it within our communities as well. Pana: Have y'all seen the little video about drinking tea ? Sometimes you can drink the tea and you're like, I don't want to drink it no more. You know, and so you can change at any moment, right? And being able to understand okay, I This person might not want to, so I need to be able to give that respect and step away, right? And so, getting them to understand that. So if you all watched that video, the tea consent video. It's really cute, and It's really good for the youth, even for the kids. They understand it real quick. In a relationship, you should be able to give them that space and say, Okay, I get it. I'm gonna be able to understand if someone says no, then no means no. And then their body gestures are like they're pushing back, that means no. If my face is looking like, i'm shaking my head or you can see in my eyes like I don't like you stay away Right? And so being able to understand that Jennifer Xiong: I think one thing I want to add to that which is great. Like the tea consent video is super amazing at just Easily explaining under the understanding of consent, but also when someone can't consent like when they can't answer yes or no. For example, they're at a party and they've passed out drunk. They're just not conscious and awake and they can't answer yes or no, decline or accept. That also is not an invitation or permission. That is not a consent, basically. So I'm going back and forth. When a person can't answer, it's definitively no, because they're not consciously aware and awake enough to give that response. So I think that is also something I wanted to add. Yi Thoj: Yeah, I don't have much to add to this question. I've never seen the tea consent video, but putting that into perspective, that is such a great analogy and wonderful example and easy way to explain things can change right in the middle of an interaction.  Also just wanting to provide admiration to Pana as well to opening up the conversations with your sons because I think that's so important. A lot of the times younger Men or Hmong youth who are male identified. A lot of the times their influences are from other male figures in their lives who may not be the best role model. And so I'm totally leaning in towards the Hmong woman leaders in people's lives, especially Hmong youth, and just really loving that. Belle: I love that affirmation. we are right now a room of powerful women in our community itself. So I really, I want to like, double up on that echo Yi's statement as well.  Cheryl: You are currently tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA and 88.1 on KFCF. You have so far been listening to Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP, and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future (CHAN-BOF). We are going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. More on breaking the silence about teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong community after our break.  Welcome back. You were tuned into apex express on 94.1, KPFA 88.1. KFCF in Fresno. And online at KPFA. Dot org. You were just listening to your track off of the Anakbayan LB May Day mix tape called “Letter to Mom” by shining sons. Anakbayan LB is a Filipino youth and student organization based in long beach, California, working to arouse, organize and mobilize the community to address issues that impact Filipinos in the U S and in the Philippines.  Now, back to the show. We are here, with belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong. From California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF). We're talking about teen dating violence awareness and its impacts and implications in the Hmong community.  Belle: Jennifer, you talk about patriarchy and shared about how, you really tried to shape your son because you also work in this field you are definitely more eloquent work in addressing these issues. I want to dive more into what that looks like within our community and in our culture. Do you feel like there are specific cultural or community barriers that may prevent individuals, particularly Hmong individuals, from seeking help or disclosing incidents of dating violence? And what does that look like? Especially since I know CHAN-BOF does a lot of that direct work with clients. Pana: I think because we're so closely knitted, that's a barrier too, being afraid of, okay, this person might know me. One example is while growing up, I was taught men were more valuable than women. I think in our family, my parents really wanted a son and they kept on trying and trying until after they got 7 daughters, they finally got their son, right? And so we were told, you have to be patient because boys, [Jennifer speaks Hmong] and as a teenager, I was like, I guess I held no value. And so, and also keeping in mind for a long time, a lot of our culturally specific organizations were mainly ran by Hmong men. Hmong men are the main person who makes the decisions Jennifer Xiong: Some of those barriers are they don't seek help or support. The other barrier that I experienced in high school is I had a friend who was dating someone who was really abusive and verbally abusive, physically abusive. He sexually assaulted her. When she came to me. I was like, Oh, no, you need to go to your parents. The minute she told her parents, she was forced to marry him to save face. And so, after watching what had happened to my friend made me feel like if that happened to me and I went and told my parents. But these are back in my days, though, right? I would be forced to get married, like, and that time I didn't know that that was not okay. If someone raped you and forced you, that is not okay, but I wasn't aware of that. She wasn't aware of that. And so, again, we said, you know, back, awareness needs to happen. Awareness and education. That was something I remember for a long time and I felt guilty and I, I felt bad because I didn't know who to send to go for help. I referred it back to her parents and said, yeah, your parents would help you go for it and go for it. And that's, that's what happened. That's one of the other barriers. Some of our parents are not very educated in this topic, and it's a topic that we don't talk about. I do want to add, there's still strong sentiments of, victim blaming, shaming, disempowering. I've heard statements, or I will say, I was doing my research paper on DV in the Hmong community. My sources were like YouTube videos. And so, I found these videos of these women speaking out about their experiences of DV. In this particular example, she's married she was pregnant and her husband was abusing her. So much so that he was dragging her down the stairs of their apartment building. And so she mentioned her stomach was basically getting shaped. She was somehow able to escape his grasp and run to a neighbor and ask them to call law enforcement. And so law enforcement came and took away the husband because they visibly could see what, what had gone on. Her mother in law had said to her, Oh. [Jennifer speaks Hmong], meaning, oh, daughter in law, why did you call law enforcement and have them take away my son? It dawned on me how we perceived some of these dynamics and abuses when it happens in relationships. And again, the whole, why did you do that instead of are you okay? What happened to you? Why did they do that to you? Or really focusing on the wellness and safety of the person being in a violent relationship, violent abusive relationship. And to add to that, the terminology and the way we frame some of the resources out there, I remember a lot of the [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] the elders, would call DV shelters [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] right. The term, the explanation of it is like the place for runaway women or wives or mothers. But in fact, these shelters meant to house and keep individuals, women, children, who were experiencing abuse and violence in their relationship safe. But then we use negative connotations and terminology to label them because it brings a lot of shame and hesitation to seek out help. The fact that the resources that are available mainstream wise for those who are seeking help and resources because they may be in an abusive violent relationship is that there's also a lack of culturally responsive resources and services to aid and assist our specific community members when they're out trying to get the help that they need. I've witnessed and heard that a lot from the clients that I directly support and assist. Like, oh, we've gone here and then they mentioned not having a great experience, or being misunderstood, or I'm not feeling even safe or comfortable enough to talk about their experiences and get the resources and help that they need because some of the agencies really lacked the cultural understanding awareness or the intersection of that when it comes to dating violence or domestic violence in our own community. Yi Thoj: Yeah, all of this is like really great examples. Also, unfortunate. I think that from my own experience with dealing with victims around me who have undergone a lot of these violences, what I've seen is that a lot of it is them recognizing that the harm that is being done to them is wrong. Very much so. But they've also internalized and conditioned themselves to accept it as something that is normal and okay, even if a lot of the times there's this back and forth resistance of wanting to debate themselves from the situation, but then at the same time, them like always going back and this is the cycle of abuse, right, and how it works. But one note that I would also like to make is that what I've also seen is that it's really, really important that male perpetrators, especially Hmong men, it's important that there are other Hmong men who are holding them accountable, is what I found to be true. Because as much as Hmong women who are victims and other Hmong women bystanders who are wanting to advocate for these victims try to stand up for them, These perpetrators and also the culture inherently does not change if people who are in power and have that privilege don't actively help dismantle it, too. So, I think that it's important to note. There's so much power that goes into having woman led spaces and woman voices because that's so important, but I also think there should be so much more work done from the cisgendered male counterparts in our lives and in the community Belle: Thank y'all for that. Your sentiment is so powerful, yi and it's Very valid. A lot of times the folks that were leading this work are often the women in our communities Like that's just straight up facts, right? I attended a Boys and men of color conference, and one of the panels said the one time that men have these spaces together is also when women created. Right? As women, we build a lot of community for our community and at the same time, don't get the recognition of the work that is being done. So, it's really important that those who do have power, make sure that they implement it correctly and support communities that minorities within their communities that need that extra support.  The examples provided to I felt were very powerful, but also very traumatizing. When I was listening to your story, when you were talking about how you advise your friend to go to their family and they were forced into marriage. I know that we are different generations, but I feel like I definitely have met folks who are my age who were still forced to the situation. Those culture practices are so very normal and not unheard of. Like it's not completely cultural shift within one generation. And I'm sure When you witnessed that, that it was very traumatizing for you too, even though you were not the one immediately affected by it, but it also shifted the way you saw community, the way you viewed culture itself. And you even expressed you felt a lot of guilt and responsibility for that. It's really interesting that when there are those traumatizing, abusive relationships happening to those folks, and even at the third per person party that you feel that trauma in other ways as well. You mentioned how the patriarchy does affect our communities in that way. What is being done? What is being said to help heal our communities and work past these issues that are obviously very much rooted in our communities. I know we talked a little bit about the way cultural identity influences our communities. I know we specifically talked about the Hmong community too as well. I know we only have about 10 minutes left and so I kind of just want to dive into, not necessarily solutions, but what are things that we can take, what are steps that we can take to make progressive action and change in our community? So in your opinion, what role can the Hmong community play in addressing and preventing this deep imbalance? And Are there any community led solutions that you feel could be effective within our community? Yi Thoj: Yeah, I think as we've mentioned throughout the conversation, it's important to emphasize and highlight prevention work that can be done. And that is teaching the young boys and men and ongoing older Hmong men in our lives to. Because that is community, right? Folks who are directly within our circles, as well as people who we interact with. I think it's important to teach them very simple things that should already be fundamental, but unfortunately are not. Such as informed consent, and then also just normal consent. I think to echo back on what I just shared as well, having more male mentors who are very much progressive and radical in their work, and also centered in the actual tangible dismantling of the culture and harmful aspects of the system, I think is, A really big part of it. The reason why I think I'm bringing this up is because my experience with younger men who still hold a lot of these traditionalist and violent behaviors and mentalities receive a lot of their mentorship from other male mentors in their lives, and also just media consumption such as Andrew Tate and whatnot. A lot of folks in my own young adult experience very much religiously follow Andrew Tate and I had believed that we were at a point in our progressive history to where we have gone past that, but it's still very rampant in the community and it's affecting The youth, and it's affecting how they interact with and also date other Hmong women as well, assuming that this is a binary relationship.   Pana: It's time to talk about it, supporting each other, talking about what health relationship really is. And It doesn't have to just come from the school. For a long time, a lot of our parents, we depend on the school. Oh, they'll figure that out, right? it needs to come from everyone, every one of us. Even as a friend, as an individual, we all need to support in that piece like supportive organizations such as CHAN-BOF and HIP, right? Continuously talking about this, bringing the awareness. If you're feeling uncomfortable, if we're really uncomfortable talking about a certain topic, we do need to talk about that and really addressing that. Getting to understand what's healthy and what's not healthy. What are the signs of an abusive relationship? I think if we really want change, change needs to happen especially as parents and it comes from the youth too. We want a better future for our youth so I think really continue to really address this and doing a lot of prevention work because we tend to deal with a crisis and we're forgetting about the prevention part. How do we prevent this stuff. One great example that I always use is we're constantly supporting and trying to jump in and support people who are drowning, but we keep forgetting about, what's happening on the other side of that river. Something's happening and it's the prevention education piece that we need to start doing and continue to do. Cheryl: We're going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. Next up,. You're going to be listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle. More on the ways we can work towards. Teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong Comunity when we return.    Cheryl: And we're back!. You are tuned in to KPFA on 94.1, KPFA 88.1 KFCF F in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. You were just listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle, a Filipino beat rock music artist based in the bay. We're currently here with Belle and Yi from Hmong innovating politics, hip. And Jennifer and Pana from California Hmong advocates network, building our futures, cHAN-BOF as we discuss the ways we can address teen dating violence in the Hmong community.    Jennifer Xiong: I'm gonna echo, I mean, both of you brought up the same points, but in really distinctive examples of your own, and I really appreciate that. It is about really bolstering, our community up to be proactive and engaged and informed about this, and really equipping and building them up to be a part of this, that it's not oh, you know, I think it's great that obviously we do this work as current active advocates who've had previous quote, unquote, professional experience dealing with , crisis like this, or dealing with and supporting directly individuals who have gone or are going through this and that, like, everyone is more than capable of being equipped with the knowledge and being enforced with the knowledge and the ability To learn and understand this and be proactive about it in our community. It does lead a lot back to the whole prevention and intervention work and building up our youth and young adults. Cause you know, okay. So a side note is, so we did a lot of outreach and engagement work this past year, really putting it out in front of our community, in the Hmong community. And let me tell you, I was scared to do this because I was like, oh my gosh, people are going to be bringing their pitchforks and torches and, and they're going to come around and be like, who's this girl going on TV, talking about DV and providing resources and services for our community. Interestingly enough, I got like so much of the opposite reaction and responses. And I think to me, that's really heartwarming. And it gives me a lot of hope because I got so much positive affirmation and reinforcement and feedback from even our older generations in our community and young folks too, saying this is so needed. This is critical, important. I'm so glad you're out here. Or how can we get involved? Even being like, , I'm so happy that you guys are doing this work. And we really have a lot of faith because so much of our younger folks, younger generations are stepping up to do this sort of work. So I think it's really the community, a large portion of the community, from what I've experienced, really recognize how important and needed this work is to implement this and incorporate this into our community so they know and understand like, Hey, violence is not okay. Dating violence is not okay. Domestic violence is not okay. But what can we do? , what do we do about it? And I think we're at that place where people are really curious and desiring to really step up and do something about it. And again, I think what Pana and Yi mentioned.  Belle: Thank you. I love those ideas on how the Hmong community can take action to change the violence that happens in our communities, right? I love dismantling the patriarchy and empowering our youth. I think that also really comes with, I know we didn't really touch on this, but, the 18 class system. How there really needs to be more, you mentioned, women leadership. We have a lot of women leadership in our communities, but not within our 18 class system. And why is that right? And how do we convince them that we need women in those leadership roles within our communities to represent our communities. That also ties into the same thing with Jennifer, how we really want to empower youth. We should also have youth leadership because then the folks who are in those important seats are 60 plus and so disconnected with the reality that we're living in today. So, you know, I just really appreciate everything y'all brought to the table today. I know we only have a few minutes left. , I know we talked a lot about youth empowerment, how there's a lot of women leadership. Since we're focusing on teen dating violence today, what is a tip or advice that you would have liked to receive as a teenager, now being a little bit more experienced with your relationships. And if you could say it really quick. Any of the teenagers listening out here, perk your ears up– there's a lot of great advice in here, so make sure that you absorb it like a sponge. And I'll just go ahead and leave it at that.  Pana: I think with me– it's okay to not be okay, right? It's okay to not be okay, and it's really okay to talk to someone. And really reach out for help and, you know, really understand that it's okay to say no, and we are all equal. Jennifer Xiong: For me, Oh gosh, this is hard. First things first is like, I think my teen self would have loved to know dating during your teen years. It's not a big deal. Like, it's okay. Don't feel like you're missing out or that there's something wrong with you if you aren't in a relationship while you're in your teen years. Really spend that time cherishing and valuing the time you have with yourself and getting to know yourself first, so that when you do get into a relationship, you know what you want, you know, the values that you want in a relationship, the values you want to bring into a relationship, you know yourself. And also don't forget that you are you're worthy. You matter, you're important. And that, anyone who disrespects you or does not value your work in a relationship more than likely aren't worth your time and aren't worth your tears. And so I think that's what I would have wanted to know.  Yi Thoj: for mine, it's very specific. How I came to be with my current partner. It was through an intersection of events with a lot of things that we've already discussed today as well. And so I think what I would have wanted to know is that It's very difficult to try to empower and change the hearts and minds of people on the ground level. Even if you're going in head strong. please treat yourself with grace in all of that. And then lean in on your partner to help you navigate that. It's so important. I think a lot of Hmong women and Hmong girls are taught to be hyper individualistic and independent, and it's needing to teach that sometimes you can lean into your femininity. Sometimes you can lean in on support from other people. And also from your partner, it's really important. C: Thank you. I love all the self love in the room and just really great advice on being gentle with yourself and recognize that you are deserving of all the good things in life. I hope that everyone really takes that to heart and it's just friendly reminder to continue loving yourself in the process of loving others. Love is abundant. It's not scarcity mindset. We are here to share our love and that love should be shared with ourselves as well. We're going to wrap today up and I just want to say thank you so much to Yi, Pana, Jennifer for joining us and thank you so much CHAN-BOF for collaborating with HIP for dating violence awareness month. We really appreciate all your effort and all the work you do in our communities as well. If you haven't already in the audience, please make sure to follow and like HIP and CHAN-BOF so you can continue following the work that we do and support our endeavors as community members, because you are part of the change in our communities as well. Well, all so much and have a good rest of your night. Thanks everyone.  Cheryl: And that's the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Hmong innovating politics and CHAN-BOF by checking out our show notes.   Also HIP and CHAN-BOF ask work together to create these really helpful infographics on themes of teen dating violence awareness, such as what is consent? How do you know you're in an abusive relationship. How can you help someone who's in it? I found them to be really helpful. So I will also make sure to link those in the show notes as well.  Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – 04.25.24 – Hmong Teen Dating Violence Awareness appeared first on KPFA.

Davo, Tom & Callum have a funny chat to the host of this seasons reboot of Thank God You're Here Celia Pacquola!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Davo, Tom & Callum have a funny chat to the host of this seasons reboot of Thank God You're Here Celia Pacquola!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On this editon of Bay Native Circle, on 03/22/23 Morning Star Gali hosts and Interviews poet activist yAyA; then Cathy Jackson interview two young Navajo women, owners of Dolii farms. Below we have a rough transcript done by Cathy Jackson for the Dolii Farms interview. Today we're going to interview two young women who are farmers on the Navajo reservation.  Can you please say your names and the names of your company?  And where you live on the reservation. Yes, my name's Jeneva Ben  (speaks in Dine traditionally introducing herself by clan) Those are my clans and how I am recognized on the Navajo reservation.  And within the reservation, we live in a community called Shiprock, New Mexico…which is one of the biggest um farming communities on the reservation. And sitting with me is my sister, and she'll introduce herself. Hello, we represent Dolii Farms LLC, and my name is najazoni Rain Ben, my clans are ye'dine B….(introduces in Dine). And as she mentioned we both reside in Shiprock, New Mexico. C question:  And how did you both decide to become farmers? kl; For me personally, this is Jeneva  I really dove into farming when I was going to New Mexico State University…I originally went there to become a veterinarian, and I also taken college courses with in my time at the high school..to get ahead on my veterinarian career that I was thinking about doing at the time.   And while I was at NMSU, it hit me that I really enjoyed farming, due to driving around the campus..they grow Alfalfa, and Pecans that surrounds the university.  And whenever I got really overwhelmed in schoolwork, or homesick– because it was about six hours away from where I reside on the Navajo reservation– it's in Las Cruces, New Mexico.   And..whenever I really want to talk to my family– and I couldn't get a hold of them..I would go to the fields, the alfalfa fields and just sit there and just smell the alfalfa. And it reminded me of home…reminded me of when I was young and loved by my family and they supported every decision I made..so far. 02:46   And that love and passion for my family and my nation..and for food overall..I realized that I wanted to become a farmer.  Well, I was a farmer at the time, but..getting a degree in farming.   I called my father and I told him that I no longer wanted to pursue my veterinarian career…but I wanted to become a legit farmer in the western society.  And asked what degree I could go for in that. 03:21 So he called a friend of his..and he called me back and told me that there is a degree called “Agronomy.”  So I went to my academic advisor and asked them if they had an Agronomy degree at NMS university and they said yes.   So they sent me to a professor– I went to talk with him, and he told me what Agronomy is..and can be for a community.  And from there on I decided that I wanted to be an Agronomist.   Agronomy– the definition is the science of soil management and crop production.  My emphasis is in crop consulting…that way when I do come home to the Navajo Nation I would be able to consult with my farmers ..farmer peers here on the reservation ..and help them understand the new techniques of farming…which I was educated through western universities. 04:20 So with that in mind, I really engulfed myself in my classes, different after school programs there at the university..one of the clubs I loved was horticulture club.. And then I knew my love for farming preceded The veterinary career I wanted.  And that's how I got into um, more interested in becoming a farmer. 04:57 Yes, hello, this is Najazhoni, and one underlying lesson we've learned is through education..we had to pursue it off- reservation..we understood the importance of kinship? And how we are really tied to our people in terms of wanting to help them…and just wanting to be back on the reservation once we got off.   So for me I was able to study at the University of New Mexico, which is in Albuquerque..and the drive isn't too long…but itI was far enough– I was getting homesick pretty bad..on my first year there…and one thing I really noticed that ..I really missed looking at the stars…and not only that, but the constant reality of just having to step on cement all the time (chuckles) there's not a lot of cement here in Shiprock…I think just those little things affected me, in wanting to come back. 06:19 And so..right now I'm studying economics at the university of New Mexico, and I'm on a gap year, and focusing on our farming business and expanding it in that way. 06:31 C:  Well..who in your family– was anyone in your family growing corn..before you guys or ..who in your family taught you about the process of drying the corn?   Yes..our father…Joe Ben junior…was the leader of showing us how to farm…put the seed in the ground..love it and create the product of dried steam corn. 07:12 He learned it from his father …and obviously the farming back then was different … they had to do hands on…more hands on work at the farm, meaning they would cultivate with hoes…whereas now we have tractors to do that…heavy hard work.   Other than that..the way of growing it and cooking it is the same..as he had done it before. 07:46 C:  Were you doing this before the pandemic? Or since the pandemic? 07:53 We farmed when we were young..ahm, back then it was more farming to feed our family– our immediate family. And then as we grew older.. I would say when we were getting more into middle school and high school–that's when we started farming, or leasing from other farmers..and there on we decided to start selling the product to the communities, and during fairs, the flea market..ah getting orders for weddings and birthday parties, and that's how we understood the business part of the selling to the community, communicating with them and understanding that there is a profit to be made on Navajo Nation farm. 08:49 Yes and…we just grew up in farming..it's our way of life now ..as it was when we were younger.  So we would wake up early in the morning, go out to run on the fields, hoe..and irrigate, and all the way through the day..and then at night we would Me and my sister started school we still had to do it Our dad still expected to help you at the farm and sell at in the weekend at the Flea Market, and we learned a lot of discipline.. 09:31 And what type of person you have to be to continue this and make it your job?  Cause..it was just– when you're younger you didn't think about like..the money aspect.. But that was our only financial income coming into our family 09:50 Other than our father's artwork?  So, it was really interesting.. In seeing that..that we're able to survive off that and um… 10:02 And to share it with our community–but not only that..when we got into college, we understood the western methods of running a successful farming business, and the pros and cons of doing business with your family. 10:22 And…I'd say going to school and working with our father really helped us create our farming business 10:40 C:  Do you see any obstacles..in say doing business in the urban environment and..doing business on the rez? 10:51 Are there any obstacles you've had on either side of that? 10:58 Yes, definitely there are many obstacles..as being a indigenous farmer..on any reservation.  For Navajo Nation, particularly is what we see is there's no Agriculture extension agents for us. 11:17 An Agriculture extension agent… what I've learned at NMSU is  a person who takes on the role of becoming an agent for the people..and for  farmers..and ranchers..and ranchers in particular.   And what they do is they go to them in the beginning of the year, and they lay out a whole farming plan with them, and advising them on what grants they can apply for, what type of fertilizers they can use, what type of chemical plants they can go to – to buy cheap fertilizer, where they can go to get their seeds, the different markets that are coming up..um, how to run a farming business.. 11:57 So many different..ahm important aspects of farming they teach.  However…we do have a San Juan county extension agent– agriculture extension agent ..but they don't cross the reservation border..they stay on New Mexico border. 12:15 And the reason?  I have no idea. Ahm, they help many farmers off reservation..if you drive east of Shiprock.. You're coming to a community called Hogback– excuse me..Waterflow, New Mexico..and Waterflow..you'll see many farms there. 12:38 And you keep driving up to Kirtland, New Mexico..again, there are farms there. How they get their big expensive equipment, their seeds, their fertilizers..that's through the extension agent who helps them every year. 12:52 However, when you drive into Navajo Nation..you don't get that necessity…you don't get that knowledge..it's not handed to us..and never has been.  How Navajo farmers got their agricultural knowledge from western people was through BIA .. Bureau of Indian Affairs. 13:14 Back in the 1900's ..there they taught us how to farm our fields using the western methods.   And when I was at school..they said…how to prepare your land.. You have to do seven steps. 13:31 You gotta plow.. First you have to walk your field..look at the soil, see if it be able to hold a seed, and yield a lot..for example if the soil is too sandy or silty..it's not gonna be a really good soil to hold a seed or hold the water..so it has to be a  pretty  good nice organic soil that can really grow the seed. 13:57 After that you have to plow the soil..many other different  agricultural terms – but basically you have to rip up the soil, and you do that after every season..after every harvest of your field. 14:10 However, at school we learned that's not a really good way to farm..There's different farming techniques that were learned by indigenous people such as…no till..which means when you grow ah..if you can visualize a corn field.. Your grow that, you harvest the field..you leave the cornstalks on the field, until next year. 14:32 Then all you do is disc it,..you don't plow the corn stalks under where it goes, or you rake off the cornstalks you just leave the corn stalks on there..and you disc the field. So the cornstalks will still be on the field. 14:48  And then you plant over it. . 14:50 And that creates organic matter– and that's how our fam– not our family but our ancestors..ahm..farmed, when they were here. (truck noise) Excuse me, there's some farm trucks driving down our lane…with a lot of hay..(chuckles) 15:08 Sorry about that..so back to what I was saying..that type of farming, our father was able to teach us..on how to not really..ruin the land with chemicals, or overplowing or overdiscing ..and that's how I want it to be. 15:27 So when I went to school, the things they taught me..I've learned..but I've also chose to leave some of those teachings behind… because I know that in the long run, it's not healthy for the soil. 15:41 So, the teachings offered by western farmers and the different companies that help them, they don't come to the Navajo Nation to teach us these new methods. So that's why I was very grateful to go to New Mexico State and for them to teach me what is not taught on the reservations. 16:06 And again…I do not know –I don't know why those agents don't come to the reservation to teach us the most simplest things..and– but that's ok, because what the Navajo Nation has is youth..youth that are wanting to learn..that are wanting to better our livelihood..that want to push our sovereignty and food energy , etc..and me and my sister are one of those youth that are spearheading that change for the Navajo Nation. 16:39 And the change is just basically gaining knowledge on how to better our farms.  Our people ..the food ..and the other things that we face ..that really hurt us as farmers is the lack of responsibility of our western neighbors when it comes to natural catastrophes..such as the Gold King Mine spill. 17:10 We weren't compensated as how the western farmers were compensated, we had no natural catastrophe aid during the Gold King Mine spill ..meaning no one came over here to haul water for us 17:27 Our own government also lacked that, because they didn't know how …how to keep thousands of acres of Navajo farms alive when we couldn't use that river back in 2016. 17:42 So, in that year..over 95 per cent of the farms died..because we couldn't use the water due to  the heavy metal contamination. However, the western farmers..they had water supplied such as dams that they created in case – which means, they already knew that..maybe one day in the Rockies..those mines might break and come into the water, so we have to have a contingency plan. 18:12 And Navajo Nation did not have a contingency plan..we did not think further ahead on the different evils we could face as farmers ..and due to that we lacked so many things during that catastrophe 18:30 But also we weren't offered any help at all. So due to all these real life situations we face as indigenous farmers ..and the lack of assistance ..me and my sister realized we have to be the ones to speak..not only for ourselves as indigenous farmers, not only for the nation ..but for our land..our water ..our water rights ..and our air rights. 19:00 And with all this experience..as a young Navajo woman farmer..our love for continuing our traditional way of farming ..our product, dried steam corn..we had to really look into ..what are we going to do as a business..not just to make profit..but..how are we going to help our people.. 19:30 How are we going to pull in all these ..aids, such as grants..or being able to speak up in Chapter meetings and having a say in ..ahm off-reservation things pertaining to the water..As a young Navajo woman..you have to realize that things won't be handed to you..you have to work hard for it. 19:59 And fortunately, we had a father who really made us work hard during our youth – but to us it was fun, and it is still fun to this day..farming..but it really instilled in us  Integrity, self-discipline ..ahm, love..compassion for each other, kinship, and many more things that are unspoken.. 29:26 C:  I'm hoping that someone out there listening will be able to direct you on some of the resources that are available ..especially for women in business ..is there anything else you'd like to add?  And please give your contact information. 20:46 I believe one thing I could add..is..what we're trying to combat..me and my sister is bringing in the youth to farming.  What I mean by that is ..if you look at the numbers of how many number of farmers here today in Shiprock..how many of them are over the age of 65..over 85 per cent of these farmers here in Shiprock are over the age of 65. 21:22 Meaning..there are no young farmers..there's probably–  say 25 per cent of the farmers are around my sister and my age..and below the age of 30.  And that's not a really good ratio.  Cause what happens when elders– elder farmers pass on. 21:45 Who are they passing their farms to?  And what are those farmers gonna do with those farms?  A lot of the farms here are in probate..people are fighting in court..and/or people just don't care… and they just leave Navajo Nation because they don't know how to farm. 22:04 That part is what me and my sister really want to emphasize and helping our reservation is by going to the schools to do little class exercises with the children with agriculture, and having the kids understand that their land is worth something.. 22:27 Their land is very valuable, their water is very valuable..and I believe these teachings are just understanding is very not widely spoken on..and the resources that are out there..aren't readily accessible to the people that are living on the Navajo Nation right now..today. 22:50 Just as we said..there's no office on the Navajo Nation, nor in the biggest community –farming community in the Navajo Nation ready to take on these type of questions or having actionable plans to help the people. 23:11 Yes..ahm..one thing that I'd say – would really help us is just for my sister and I is to really build our foundation of our business in order to be that advisor ..that agent, that leader in our culture community here on the Navajo Nation to spearhead all these different issues and come up with solutions with the youth. 23:45 And hopefully gain trust with our elders farmers and hopefully pass that down to us and their children and to be comfortable with that. Yes, and you may contact us at a phone number which is 505 420 7167 or send us a message on Instagram or Facebook under the name of Dolii Farms LLC to get in contact with us.  24:15 C: Can you spell Dolii Farms for the people please? It's DOLII Farms FARMS LLC. C:  Thank you so much. The post Bay Native Circle March 22 2023 – Morning Star Gali Interviews yAyA & Cathy Jackson interview two young Navajo women, owners of Dolii farms appeared first on KPFA.

[4.Allegretto][5.Allegro] Telephone phrases - Private, Office: receive a call“I will call you back as soon as I get back.” [00:07] Hello, everyone. How are you doing? Today, we will practice phrases for phone call. Honestly, I'm not really comfortable with talking on the phone. Especially when there is an unexpected private call, I get nervous and check the number… thinking who would it be? what would it be? etc.….Nowadays, most things can be done online, so you may not have many opportunities to talk on the phone. Having said that, it's still a means of communication. You lose nothing by practicing. Repeat after me [00:40] 1. Is this Kato san's house? 2. May I speak to your husband there? 3. May I speak to your wife? 4. Yes, s/he is (at home). I will get her/him. (I will put you through to her/him.) 5. S/he is out at the moment. 6. Around what time will s/he be back? 7. I will call again later. 8. Wait a moment, please. 9. I'm afraid you've got the wrong number. 10. Sorry, I must've dialed the wrong number.By the way, we seldom say “sayounara(good bye)” at the end of the phone call. Normally we say, “ja”, “dewa, mata” or ”shitsurei shimasu” .[02:34] Now, listen to the dialogue. Catherine is calling Teruko san. Teruko san's sir name is Hoshino.[02:44]Dialogue C: Is this Hoshino san's house? H: Yes, it is. May I ask who's calling? C: My name is Catherine. Can I talk to Teruko san?H: She is out at the moment. C: I see. When do you expect her back? H: Well, I think she'll be back around 7 pm. C: I see. Then, I will call again around that time. H: I will tell her that you called. C: Thank you. Well, good bye. H: Good bye. Repeat after me [03:17]1. Is this Hoshino san's house? 2. My name is Catherine.3. Can I talk to Teruko san? 4. When do you expect her back? 5. I will call again around that time. [04:02] Role Play! It's your turn! You will call Family Hoshino, and ask if Teruko san is at home. Follow the prompts.[04:12] H: Hello? You: (Ask if it's Hoshino san's house.) H: Yes. May I ask who's calling? You: (Say your name and ask if Teruko san is at home.) H: She is out now at the moment. You: (Ask when she will be back. )H: Well, I think she'll be back around 7 pm. You: (Say, you will call her back around that time.) H: I see. Then, I will call again around that time. You: (Say, thank you and finish the call.) H: Good bye. [05:15]How was it? Did you get it? Try again without prompts. Support the show=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=Become a patron: More episodes with full translation and Japanese transcripts. Members-only podcast feed for your smartphone app. Japanese Swotter on PatreonNote: English translations might sound occasionally unnatural as English, as I try to preserve the structure and essence of the original Japanese.

In part C we get back into it with Problematic, the legend of Vermont Hip Hop

During this time the best thing we can do to improve ourselves is to try something new. “I know that "trying is not about perfection", it's more on about learning something new.” "Not a lot of people know that trying new things makes us grow.." - C

www.valerielavignelife.com/130 for full show notes + links   [00:52] Valerie LaVigne: Welcome back to The Women's Empowerment Podcast. So typically every 10 episodes, I do a q&a, and I have decided to switch things up a little bit which I'm very nervous about but also very excited because I have an extra special guest on today's show, and he is my partner, Craig and as I'm saying he I'm just realizing that you're the first male guest I've had on the show which is also very exciting so welcome.   Craig: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.   VL: Craig was very excited to be on the show today but also a little nervous because we have a pretty much a list of listener questions for Craig. If you follow me on Instagram at about living life, you will have known or you will have seen that Craig and I have been doing some little renovations on the home, which have been fun to follow along with and just a little fun part of our relationship, and what's going on right now. So, now, I usually read a bio for the guest and Greg and I were chatting previously to recording and I said oh I don't really have a bio for you and you know you're not a entrepreneur so things are very different episode for us today. So what I thought would be great if I read your Tinder bio, which is how Craig and I met, and on his Tinder bio and correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I remember it. It said Craig, I don't think it's at your age, but at the time you were 36, and it said, looking for someone to steal my sweaters. Eat my fries, and drink my coffee, even though you said you didn't want any.   Okay can you remember my Tinder bio, off the top of my head.   C: Off the top of my head. I remember the pictures very clearly. Yeah there was beautiful pictures and I can remember. I can remember that you were a health coach, and that you were. You were in touch with, I was spiritually woke spiritually.   V: Yeah, we're gonna talk about being spiritually woke a little bit on the podcast.   Yeah, I remember something like that, something about pizza was thrown in there too, that yeah that was a good time my first ever Tinder experience and ever Tinder date and look where we are now almost, we'll definitely over a year and a half later.   As you know, my business really does revolve around health but more specifically healthy habits. So we're gonna talk a little bit today about healthy habits, and I figured we just dive in, because that's kind of how I like to do things. And the other thing I wanted to share with you about the podcast is that and I know you've listened to a couple episodes but I'm really try to leave the guests with some motivation to take action. So as we are talking if you have any like tidbits of advice, or actionable steps you can take, feel free to share that on the show.   Okay, so let's start with the healthy habits.   So Ania asked, Are there any healthy habits that Craig wants to achieve or get better at what are you currently working on in terms of your healthy habits?   [4:33] C: Well thank you for the question on habits that I really want to improve on that I lack out a lot on my diet. So we've got better at eating more consistently and vows introduced some, you know, a couple recipe books that are great, but they're still not the best.    So, really got to tidy that up one of the bad parts is too much sugar.   So, working out that that's active and not sleeping.   I guess regularly. So that's probably my biggest challenge at the moment is getting a good night's sleep every night. Just between work and life and everything, it's just seems to be, I guess that's not really an excuse.   It's toying with me a little bit so I have to figure out a way to get in control of it. So yeah those are probably the two main things I need to I need to figure out.   VL: So, and then her next question I guess is a bit of a follow up, but are there any bad habits that you want to change so I it's kind of a similar question.   C: Yeah, so the sleep and then I guess just lazy snacking. That's probably the biggest downfall with sugar is that you know the snacking. We've gotten this terrible habit of having dessert before I have having this dessert before bed, and I guess the one was sleep.   The biggest challenge there is not putting down my phone. I need to put down my phone. Turn off the screen, close my eyes,   VL: Eliminating sugar would also probably help you sleep better too.   C: Yeah.   VL: Okay, so let's talk about some of your good habits, what are some of your good habits, and that you do every day and I can list a few but I want it to come from you.   C: I train every day, I don't know if that's necessarily a good habit. I like I enjoy the habit but I, I enjoy trading. I do feel I should take a break every now and then and listen to my body which I, I certainly don't do.   And my other habits don't necessarily turn towards health, it's more structured in a routine and I like to get things done and I don't like to leave things open ended.   If I, if I have something in my mind. I want to get on top of it like I consider that a good habit to not leave things open or unfinished.   VL: Yeah, so you work out every day, which, you know, and then some days you say you don't have a great workout. It's more of like a rest day, but you are definitely someone who takes action, whereas we laugh about that. I like to start things and Craig likes to finish things necessarily start something, but I feel like once we get something started. You're the one who's saying we need to finish this, or I'm like yeah we'll do later.   Or we'll start something else. In the meantime, and then you're done, like you said you like to, you like to take action and I think this is something that I've learned a lot from you because I tend to hesitate sometimes like oh let me think about a little bit more like let me plan this out. Where that can be helpful but it can also be a little bit of a detriment if I'm just, you know, waiting to feel ready or you're like just jump in with both feet.   C: I think when I was younger, I hesitated a bit more and I was a little bit more concerned about the risks and the outcome. And I eventually realized, you know, as time ticks along, and you've passed your 30s and it feels like the clock is getting quicker and quicker, that you start to realize that the time is not waiting for you.   So, I guess that's the reason why I've driven. Now, more.   [9:00] VL: Candace wants to know, how have your habits changed since meeting me so like what are some things that you maybe added?   C: Thank you. Thanks, Candace for that question. Since Val and I've met. There is a lot of things that have changed. Habitually and for the better.    We, I guess, the one that pops up the most into my head is recycling and take, you know, I used to just throw, throw away everything into the trash and, and I never used to really recycle so foul, foul was very very persistent with that so I, I started to recycle and I'm still not perfect, but I'm definitely 91 miles, miles ahead of where I was. So that was a that was a huge one. One of them that happens.   I had, I had a TV in the bedroom, and fell. Passive aggressively comment though. Oh, you shouldn't do this but I was like okay, she's like no no it's your decision but, you know, so eventually I ended up getting rid of that and that definitely helped my sleep a lot because I, I used to sleep with the TV on and then wake up in the middle of the night with it still running and really have a broken sleep so that was a huge one.   I used to eat a lot of takeout. And that's, that's non existent so that's benefited me in two ways that not only am I saving a lot more money but I'm also I'm also looking after myself with my health, and mentally. I used to always believe I was old and it's almost like I was convincing myself that I was old and Val Val came in with this notion that like, Hey, you're only as old as you, you sort of believe you are.   So, if you believe you're young, you're going to convince yourself you're young and you will be young. So, this has been a huge modification for me to come back to being young and recognizing that it's a lot more journey to come down the road and we have a lot of time together.   [11:34] VL: And so that you're not even older than I am, but you're not full that I have to give, and you're very playful like this is something that I really love about you is that you are really wonderful. I used the wrong word, and once I called him immature but I met. It didn't go very well.   But this is something that like, I really like for me because I sometimes can get really caught up into more serious and structured mentality like playful side which I think is so important, and even today you're tied to these fun things, a game all the stuff so we're ready to pull your heart and you're young.   I think money wise to like you're better at saving money now.   C: Yeah.   VL: I think the pandemic also helps with Thanksgiving close.   C: Yeah, but it was like I used to I used to be very impulsive. I still am from time to time but you said Help me right now. And it's that's for the better.   [13:02] VL: So one of the other questions that Candice asked was if someone told you five years ago that you'd be getting an astrology reading, and your aura read and playing with oils, diffusing oils. What would you have said to them?   C: You're off to lunch. Yeah. Never in a million years, I would I would never have thought it, I would have probably had a good giggle and moved on.   So, this is, this has been one one journey, like the spiritual journey, I guess, although I'm not. I'm perhaps not 100% There are definitely, it's definitely been an eye opener, and I've definitely learned a lot about myself, about how to behave, my personality, how to interact with other people, and Val. You you you introduce me to a few different people like Glynis the Astrologer.    VL: A nutritionist…   C: And that's, that's been a huge change as well. Glynis, the astrologist was huge. VL: It's one of those things where if you don't believe it and if you can't just read your horoscope in the paper, you need to read your birth chart and someone needs to do that for you because it's like a whole other language.   C: you know, when I, when I went to see Glynis I went in with a very open mind, you know, just, I think at that time we were having a tough time. And it was a search for a good direction. And I was a bit lost.   VL: And then how many people did you tell to go see her?   C: So many because it put a lot of things to rest in my mind I think we have a lot of secrets that a lot of insecurities that are raised in dark places that you don't want to embarrass anybody and I think it takes even a lot to sometimes let your partner in because you're not certain if they're going to use it against you or you might be super super ashamed of these things and, and sitting, listening to what she had to say, might feel normal. My darkness fuel Okay, a lot more accepting of myself.   It put some perspective into some journeys that perhaps I hadn't closed the door or had time to fix properly.   VL: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, that was very early on in our relationship too so for you to go and have that meeting with her was, it was a surprise to me that you actually did that.   At the time, but if someone asked you now like, Hey Craig, what do you think of the willie stuff like your horoscope and or as in meditation and crystals of essential oils, what would you say to somebody?   [16:25] C: You know, I came from a very sort of conservative upbringing. So, to get through something that you've grown up with is kind of a challenge, not necessarily a challenge but it takes some convincing if you will. So there's obviously like with in regards to oils, there's some oils that you can show me the benefit of them straightaway like the lemon oil. When we're painting and I spilt this lemon gospel to paint on the ground, and you gave me that oil and I couldn't believe it, including the microwave, like things that was so challenging, there's, there's, you know, I saw a huge benefit but it was kind of like, there was that instant gratification so you, you respond like I responded really well to it.   But the other oils that you know that the calming blend. Like sometimes I have a bit of a giggle because like I think it's whimsical almost, but it's just it's just because it's very difficult to believe, but I'm getting. I feel I'm getting better.    VL: Yeah, when we first started dating you kept calling me as soon as there.   C: Yeah, yes it's right   VL: And what else, the tummy oil?   C: I guess because I'm lactose intolerant since I've been in Canada, like I respond very well to lactose and so it's been a very challenging journey for me with that because, you know growing up I grew up on a farm and Zimbabwean, there was an abundance of milk because we had cows and it was unpasteurized and, you know, we'd milk the cows and had the milk straight from there and so to get it all processed and stuff I think is playing havoc on me but, certainly.   VL: Hey, well when I met you you had a deep blue rug. Essential Oil muscle rub,   C: yeah wow okay well that's that's another one that's, that's fantastic as well, Like, I used to use a 535, you know, and more chemical kind of products and then yeah picked up that that deep blue and that that works a real treat, and even little things like the diffuse smell.   It's, it's a very nice response but that was a really bad habit I had, I had those.   VL: Oh my god yeah fresh air fresheners everywhere.   C: Yeah, so we changed the diffusers and that was a huge change which was for the better. Oh man, I threw all my chemicals as well, all the cleaning products.   VL: I basically came in it was like so…. Yeah we're throwing out everything…   C: We pretty much. Wow, okay. There's a lot. Yeah, do laundry detergent, as well, soaps, soaps.   VL: Do you like how does it feel, do you notice a change?   C: I've noticed, I've noticed like, you know, just, I guess the changes have been so subtle, we've done some, like, it's already that like, also the painting of the house, and the brightening of the house and your style and your fashion you know the way that you've brought that in like, there's been a lot of things I think mentally I feel more grounded, obviously work is like a bit stressful so it keeps me on my toes, but I feel it's a good place to come on we have.   VL: Yeah, I was gonna say that I feel like we've created a nice little nest where it feels a little bit more like a home together. It's been a year that we've lived together.   [20:48] VL: this is actually one of the questions from Faith, who wants to know if we can talk about our, and then they quoted us like, I'm gonna change the words like pandemic relationship so basically, Craig and I met in 2019. And this summer, And then it got a little more serious in the fall. We joked about cuffing season, and where I kept Craig, in September, and then we both went on our own little trips in February or January and then when we, when we came back we were basically in this global pandemic. And, you know, the two weeks to flatten the curve was like, Oh well, I'll just stay at your house for two weeks. It actually wasn't two weeks and then all of a sudden, like I was living here and all my stuff was here and I was decorating and yeah.   So, basically, Craig, Faith's question is to talk a little bit about this dynamic and how we've stayed sane and kept our relationship healthy over the past year or so.   C: Thank you for your question. Look, do I feel that it's been easy all the time. No, we've we've certainly had challenges, you know, and I definitely, definitely, definitely would admit that it's not always roses, but I do appreciate and love you very much. I guess this made it a bit easier in the beginning because I was perhaps a bit less selfless. I wanted to do stuff for you more, you know, I kind of set my own aside for us. And I've been very fortunate where my workers as kept going.   VL: Okay, I'll jump in here just for some context. So at the beginning of the pandemic. My job changed immediately and drastically so I lost my main source of income and I was kind of just working off of some of the passive income I was building on the side which I wasn't actively pursuing so it was a very small fraction of what I was taking home every month, whereas Craig's job was deemed essential so there wasn't a lot that changed for you other than maybe some flexibility with where you had to be so there was a little bit more working from home on Craig's and I was now completely throwing myself into my online business and as any entrepreneur would explain to you that you know the reward or the, the, the finances, they don't necessarily come overnight, it is a bit more of like, okay, we need to build this growth but I was, I was building an entirely new foundation so essentially I was building a new business and Craig was incredibly supportive of me emotionally, mentally, I mean you let me stay here at your at your house, and we kind of came up with an arrangement that made the best sense for us at the time and it's evolved a little bit but yeah so I kind of took to this like domestic role of cooking, not so much cleaning but I was cooking meals.   And I was like making our little nest for us while you were bringing home the bacon so they say.   And it like it'll happen very quickly and it was like, Oh, we don't really know how long this is going to last long and I mean, yeah, I would agree that not everything has been super easy, but I feel like we've learned so much about each other, and about ourselves, and this is actually the first time I've ever lived with a partner too so I think that was one of my, my hesitant or that's where my where my hesitancy came from was like, oh this is new and this is scary and I'm not making any money and or I'm not making as much money as before and, yeah, it's a bit of a vulnerable time for me.   C: Yeah, cuz I think I made a promotion. Last year, during that. So things are doing really really well can remember. I can remember feeling quite terrible though because my, my work although consistent is is not, you know, some days can be stressful, but it's not terrible. And I can remember you work in your past. We can get by. And I, I, deep down inside, I hope that, why not I hope I know that your time is coming, because I've seen how hard you work and I've seen how far you throw yourself into things and I sometimes feel it's not fair. You know some of your journey this, this last few years of this pandemic, I don't feel it's fair. But I don't know quite how else to support you, other than to be there for you and to support you the best I can.   Sometimes I feel I dropped the ball at it, but, you know, other times, do my best.    VL: Craig is really, you are really supportive of me and in a lot of ways, and honestly, most of the time. So, again more context, because the studio the Pilates studio is closed right now I've been spending more time at home. So sometimes I just, it's just nice for when you come home for us to be around each other and have, like, for me, quality time is really important right now because I spend so much time alone. That being around you, and like, no phones and no emails and no TV and just having like a genuine conversation is really important to me.   And then, you know that I have like a walking habit but if I can add an additional walk with you and get some fresh air. Like, I feel like this is, it sounds like somebody's so small, but it's so important to me that time with you.   C: But I remember as you weren't getting out to us sitting and saying hey you need to get out. Come on, totally. Yeah, and that's what I think the walking habit stemmed from.   VL: Yeah a lot of it, I felt like the lazy, a lazy bum and you were like you need fresh air, you need to get outside. The best is when you came up did you leave the house today. No new, did you get up today. Does making another cup of coffee.   What about each other. Yeah and you know what this is probably like one of my most serious relationships, like I said I've never lived with a partner before and so I felt a lot of times, like, is this what it's like to live with somebody like my friends kept saying no.   What about each other. Yeah and you know what this is probably like one of my most serious relationships, like I said I've never lived with a partner before and so I felt a lot of times, like, is this what it's like to live with somebody like my friends kept saying no.   You know I've looked like my friends have lived with their partners for years. And since the pandemic, a lot has changed you're spending way more time with your significant other, you know, you're not getting the outlet of socializing with your friends or Craig likes to go skydiving like we weren't doing those things but because this is like the pretty much. Probably two thirds of our relationship I've been through the pandemic. Yeah, so it's very, it's, it's gonna be different regardless.   C: Honestly, I feel sometimes it's, it's definitely a case of make or break. And I think, I think, in this time we went away. Together we've done a few good things and we've got a few coming up so yeah we have the fabulous little like weekend road trip kind of things that have been fun, or adventurous to come. Yeah.   [29:08] VL: Okay so we have a few personal questions. Nothing crazy. So, Lisa wants to know the, your favorite thing about yourself.   C: Thank you for the question, Lisa, the favorite. My favorite thing about myself. I can't give the credit all to myself for this. But I guess the favorite thing I would think about myself is my ability to bounce back. There's, like, I, I grew up in Zimbabwe and we kind of lost our homes and byways and moved to Australia and started from zero. And then I moved to Canada and kind of started from zero and come a long way.   If you asked me 20 years ago. Do you ever, you know, would you feel that you would have moved this far or I still would have been on a farm in Zimbabwe. So, it's been, it's been a very long and tough journey and there's a lot of good people to thank, you know that have been with me.   And then in many different ways and some, some of them it's just, you know, a very small, you know, somebody just touched my life and the most smallest way but it's done me a huge benefit but I think that's probably the, I don't know if it's even.   VL: That's a great answer, I would agree with that. And then Lisa also asked, What do you want to work on with Val?   C: I would like to ultimately build our own little Empire, and have a little family and have a little house and go on vacation vacations and maybe start living a little bit, a little bit more than we have been I think we've you know you've been tied up during this this Corona thing and I would, I would appreciate to be able to stretch our legs as a couple, a little bit more out, I'd like for us to become a lot more successful. And, you know, I'd like to be there. I think I have been there like what year but has come to you, having a bit of hesitation with moving forward with your business and stuff and sometimes I'm just like, go home, don't jump on it, don't be shy like move, move, move, so I'd like to work on that as well. So be successful and be happy. And maybe content.   Like, I think we once, when you want to ask me like, What do you say don't just to be comfortable, You're like, what does that mean, like, what's comfort mean to you and that, that still, it still resonates in my mind because I'm not wondering well what is comfortable, you know, what does it mean and what do we want and I think we've started to understand each other a bit better about, you know, if we bought a house, what would it look like and, you know, one of the things that we both kind of enjoy and I guess one of the things, if I'm going to be truly honest.   One of the things I'd really like to work on as well as feeling super comfortable in our relationship to the point that you know you go on your trips and I'll be calm in my heart. I guess that's, I think we're getting to that point that relationship where we're a lot more confident with each other and yeah. [33:16] VL: So, when people tell me they want to be comfortable as a goal I cringe because comfort is not a goal. And, you know, like I'm very fortunate for where I grew up and how I like this incredible people that I've attracted into my life and the and the situations I've been in like I'm very fortunate. And if someone asked me, Are you comfortable, I would say yes I am comfortable, and even with Craig like where you've come from and where you are now to tell me that you're not comfortable in your house and you have an amazing job and, like, you don't have to worry about putting food on the table, in my opinion, this is comfort so that's why I always encourage people to one figure out what comfort means to you because you probably already are comfortable and to, to raise the bar like, what do you actually want to feel because you want to buy a bigger house or we want to buy a bigger house together. But comfort in a bigger home is not what we're looking for. We're looking for a spacious mess we're looking for, you know, expansion because we want to build a family like we want to have a backyard we want to be. We don't want to have to move our freaking cars around every day.   You know we want to be able to have like space for our bicycles and our paddleboards and all the other things that we, we want to include so, so really that's where I'm coming from with that is, is why I don't agree when people say the comfort is the goal because most of the people who I'm speaking to who are saying that are well more than comfortable.   C: Yeah, right. Um, I think one of the other things that, that I've really enjoyed about our little journey is that, you know, when we, when we look back and we we see some of the experiences we've had, and some of the photos, we've taken, you know, we find these old memories and have a good chuckle. I, I think the last year and a bit have most likely been some of the best years of my life. Like I feel super, like I feel a lot more settled in myself.   And I think this has allowed us to have a really great journey and one of the things I'd like to keep working on with you is making more memories, good memories. You know that we look back and like you forget a lot of them and we you know you say to me, what are you grateful for it. And we become conscious and think back to the things that we've done and have a good giggle like we've, we've done a lot of good stuff. I look forward to do a lot more.   [36:30] VL: Thank you for sharing and I look forward to doing more with you too. We're pulling on Craig's heartstrings. A little teary.   Good questions. So we have another question from Yvonne and I'm going to change the question just a teeny bit. So I would say I would rephrase this question as if you're giving advice to another couple, whether they're a couple of a couple years, or several years. But the question that she's asking is, how do you encourage your partner to practice more healthy habits, without coming off too forceful so I would say like, what advice would you give to another couple?   C: Thanks everyone for that question. this one for me is super super challenging because I've been in some relationships where somebody is expected check to change something and you don't feel equal or hurt in the relationship. And no matter what approach that person takes.   You're not gonna budge, or if you do, it'll just be to appease them on a shallow level sort of thing.   I really feel that you need to work at. At hearing your, your person hadn't appreciated your person, and communicating with your person, to the point that you actually care about each other and you love each other, to become a lot more selfless and a lot more open and less defensive and all of that.   Want to win once you get to actually see how that person is, you'll figure out how to navigate that minefield, because honestly, at the end of the day like it really does feel like a minefield sometimes.   So, I think, step one is not to, not on the approach of the question is, step one is to actually know the person, and to understand the person.   Once you know and understand that, then you can start to ask or approach it the right way.   Does that make sense?   VL: Yeah, so, and I say this to Craig all the time he he'll ask me to do something.   I don't necessarily want to do, and they'll say to Craig You know what, if you asked it to me this way. I would do it, but if you're saying, and it's, It's because I like, because I know what's gonna motivate me to do that action. Whereas if it sounds like someone's telling you something, the way I am, as a personality, I will put it off, longer if you keep asking me to do something with Craig I found that, and again I think you're right, I think it is about, it's different depending on the specific depending on the person, but with you I found that if I explain to you why this habit wasn't important. You were more willing to change it. And I also didn't come at you like you. You did list a lot of things that have changed since knowing me, but they didn't all happen at the first meeting, right, so like, I noticed that his green van container where we throw our compost had was a storage container for bags, and for grocery bags, like the ones that you dispose up the plastic bags and I was like, whoa, Whoa whoa whoa So like right away we were using disposable grocery bags, and also there was no place to put our food waste. So, yeah, that's another one.   So, again, like here I am like the alarms are going off all the red flags, he doesn't recycle. I'm just kidding, that's a huge red flag that's changeable.   So I was like okay so I bought the green bin bags and I said, actually this bin is for this, and this is why this is important. Garbage people take this every week, and then we swapped to the produce bags, and the reusable grocery bags, and the grocery store, we go to, they use paper bags anyway they don't even use plastic anymore so that's helpful.   Craig has come a LONG way!   C: What's the other thing sustainability.   VL: But yeah, a lot of those things.   C: I think it's definitely, because there's been there's been things like Val hates cleaning. She cannot, and now I love cleaning. VL: You know, wait wait wait, you love the house being clean, you don't love it. I like the result.   C: But we compromise. Like, there's a lot of compromise and there's a lot of give and take and that's why I think it's really important to understand the other person, and to know the limits and then it's gonna need to know the limits but then it's is to know within yourself, whether your ex, you're willing to accept that this is the way it's going to be, you know that some things you may not change so you have to compromise and you have to not grow to resent them you need to just let it go and breathe and move on to another thing that's much more worth the battle.   [41:55] VL: Well, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast I still have a couple more questions for you but I did want to say thank you so much because I know you were a little bit nervous but also, I kind of, you're very polite and professional on the show I thought you'd be… Maybe next time you'll be a little more your charismatic self.   C: I know what it means to you.   VL: Thank you. Before we get into the rapid fire round   RAPID FIRE ROUND What are you currently reading? Or what is your favourite book? C: I'm gonna have to get it out. It's about leadership as sad as a guy who was in the ASA, and his leadership techniques.   What does empowerment mean to you? C: There is nothing that you can put your mind to like if you put your mind to it, you can achieve it differently. If you want something just go get it. It's yours. Everything's attainable goals and only walls you put up your own walls. So empowering myself as pulling down my own walls, I guess.   What are you currently working toward? C: There are three things that I've tried to focus on now. And I've kind of class them in buckets. One of them is being a lot more successful at work. But, in being successful being settled as well, perhaps taking work seriously but trying to cut down the stress. That's one success at work, reducing stress.   The other thing is, building and working on on my family. By that I mean, being more in touch with my, my family, being more in touch with you, because I consider you my family, appreciating and being more in touch with your family. Also consider them my family now, and appreciating the small things like watching my brother's children grow up and being a little bit more part of it and trying to be more active and getting involved with them and, you know, making a family with you and growing our lives.   I love your family anyway so I think things go well there but it's a relationship that needs to be nurtured as well. And then my other pocket is being happy doing things that I love to do. For skydiving, as going camping and the things that we're looking forward to doing like a happiness bucket, work, family,   VL: Sounds like like core values which I've talked a lot about the podcast, share those episodes with you later.   Well thank you so much again I want to acknowledge you for one taking the time to, to do this with me because it meant a lot to me I was a little bit nervous but like I said, I was also super excited to have you on the show you were an incredible guest very polite and professional.   There's a different side to learning about today.   And I also want to acknowledge you for being a really incredible and supportive partner because I don't know what I would have done this year without you or how it would have gone, and you're always empowering me and you're always supporting me and encouraging me to take the big leaps that I am mortified to take, and I definitely would say that my, my success and my growth this year has been because of your support and encouragement, So thank you so much.   C: Thank you, you're an amazing woman, I love you too.   VL: Aww

C-Welcome to Episode 25 of This Is Yu Podcast.C -This Is Carole Yu and Scott StewartThis Is Yu Podcast Music intro….C-You just heard a clip from Justin Warner’s show for Marvel called “Eat the Universe.” More on that later.But, first, today, taking inspiration from Justin and his quirky science meets food mashup world, we’re going to talk Molecular Gastronomy. Stay tuned to after the interview with Justin where we’ll actually step you through one of his super galactic recipes.S-Carole, I remember about ten years ago you bought Dara a molecular gastronomy kit for her to play around with. I think you got it on Amazon right? How did that come about as even an option?S- Today we welcome Justin Warner who burst onto the food scene by winning Season 8 of Food Network Star.What’s amazing is he’s totally self taught and has created a life full of creative and idiosyncratic food.C- I remember watching that season, and I was so blown away by his inventiveness. I think because he doesn’t have that formal training, his vision isn’t clouded by traditional ways to cook foods, and pair flavorings.S- We talk to Justin about his early competitive spirit when he was still in middle school in Maryland. Justin worked his way up through the front of house in restaurants, until he worked in NYC for Danny Meyer. He was a captain at The Modern which is a restaurant in the Museum of Modern Art.C- Justin then appeared on 24 hour restaurant battle on the Food Network in August 2010 and won with his brunch restaurant concept. Then, he got called back in 2012 to be on Alton Brown’s team on the 8th season of Food Network Star. He won, and that’s how his food media career took off.S- Around this same time, Justin had a restaurant called Do Or Dine, in Brooklyn, which paired unusual tastes together, like and caviar nachos, shishito with yuzu, wasabi, hickory and green tea, or venison wontons with Jarlsberg cheese.C- I remember we ate there with Dara, and Justin was super engaging and even sat down with us for half an hour talking about food TV competitions, since Dara had just finished her show on MasterChef Jr. I was dying over the fish and chips. It had an entire deep-fried fish that looked like it was swimming on top of a huge pile of fries. Mmmm, so mouthwatering. S- Justin has several cookbooks, and more to come and now has a partnership where he has done over 47 videos for Marvel Comics with his Eat the Universe cooking show. He represents as Marvel’s food expert at all the great comic conventions.C- Here you go, Take a listen…..C-Thank you so much to Justin for joining us in today’s conversation. It’s been so awesome to follow your career from restauranteur to Food Network Star to Marvel comics food expert. S- We’re so happy that you’ve found a way to really make the most of your creative and innovative food spirit!S-As always, we really appreciate your thoughts and feedback about the show. C-You can reach us on Instagram or Facebook at [This Is Yu Official] or you can leave us a voice memo at [562-291-6037]. We listen to all the voicemails.S- Home base is www.ThisIsYu.comC- Thanks for listening to the show. Speaking of APPLE PODCASTS, Please SUBSCRIBE, COMMENT and RATE our THIS IS YU PODCAST. S-Have a great week! Thanks for listening and letting us make your life more delicious.Justin Warner's Information:Twitter @EatFellowHumansInstagram @EatFellowHumansMarvel & Justin - Eat The Universe - On You Tube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKWPfouH9vcWebsite - http://www.eatfellowhumans.com/

Welcome to Episode 24 of This Is Yu Podcast.This Is Scott Stewart and Carole YuYou just heard a clip from when today’s guest, Maneet Chauhan, competed on Iron Chef America. She is an intrepid competitor, having made hundreds of appearances as a contestant and judge on the Food Network. This woman is a passionate and determined restauranteur, mother, wife and celebrity chef.But, first, today is all about Fruits, nuts, and flakes.Your relatives Carole? Nope we’re talking about cereal. Today, we welcome Maneet Chauhan, Maneet was born in Ludhiana, Punjab, India. S-She went to the Welcomgroup Graduate School of Hotel administration in India. After asking her professor what the best cooking school in the world was, she went to the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park New York and got her Associates degree in Baking and Pastry.C- True, and might I add, that’s where Dara is going for the exact same degree! Well, Maneet graduated the top of her class with high honors, sweeping all awards.S- Right after graduation in 2000 she was hired as management for a startup restaurant in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, where she headed a team and expanded the restaurant's capacity from 70 seats to 140 seats. C- By 2003, at the age of 27, she became the opening executive chef of Vermilion in Chicago, Illinois, earning her 3-Stars from The Chicago Tribune. A few years later in 2007, she moved to NYC to open At Vermilion[13] where she was nominated as the 'Best Import to New York' by Time Out Magazine. Her style is described as "global fusion" with roots in Indian cuisine.[14]S- Maneet has been on Food Network for 12 years, starting as one of the original judges of “Chopped”. She is not only a full time judge, she also competes on the network. She is the only Indian female ever to compete on Iron Chef. She has made numerous guest appearances on TV shows, and at the top food and wine festivals.C- You’d think she would be busy enough as a judge and competitor, but she also has Morph Hospitality group, and four restaurants in Tennessee. If you want to check them out, she has her signature Chauhan Ale and Masala House, Mockingbird, a southern American restaurant, Tansuo, contemporary Chinese, and Chaatable, Indian Street Food.C-Thank you so much to Maneet for joining us in today’s conversation. What a fun conversation time we had, time literally sped by on that interview. You were such a joy to speak with Maneet!S- Maneet you have such positive energy, and I will come back and listen to you if I feel my energy needs a boost, either that or I’m going to sit right down with a big bowl of Lucky Charms!S-As always, we really appreciate your thoughts and feedback about the show. You can reach us on Instagram or Facebook at [This Is Yu Official] or you can leave us an anonymous voicemail at [562-291-6037]. We listen to all the voicemails.C- Home base is www.ThisIsYu.comS- Thanks for listening to the show. Speaking of APPLE PODCASTS, Please SUBSCRIBE, COMMENT and RATE our THIS IS YU PODCAST. Have a great week!C -Thanks for listening and letting us make your life more delicious.Maneet Chauhan's details:http://www.morphhospitality.com/https://www.instagram.com/maneetchauhan/https://www.maneetchauhan.com/March Of Dimes:https://www.marchofdimes.org/index.aspx

添加笨笨老师微信：benbenkouyu1（笨笨口语全拼），速速加入口语学习群，免费每日纠音打卡，0元抢购5天直播口语训练营（仅限100名），领取三大听课好礼！好礼一：价值299元《走遍美国》全集课程视频！ 好礼二：实用英语口语纸质书籍免费包邮到家！好礼三：笨笨口语《十年精选英语学习资料》全集。一口流利的英语=1整套真正有效的课程（独特学习方法+发音+词汇+连略读+句型+英语思维+结构变换+情景对话）通常在西餐厅的菜单裡，会出现关于牛排（Steak）的项目，大都是牛肉的种类（牛身上的部位）。但是除了牛肉的种类、等级（Grade）以外，你还会被侍 者问到烹调牛排的生熟度（Degree of Cooking），以及配料（Accompaniments）、调味料（Condiment）等问题。让我们来一一认识在餐馆点牛排的种种规格。菲力，沙朗，肋眼，纽约客，丁骨，红屋，肋排，牛小排……这些牛排屋菜单上常见的字眼，全指的是牛排肉取材的部位。啊哈，又想选菲力吗?其实，真正的牛排行家，会依自己喜好的口感质地，来选择适合部位的牛排。而且通常，都不会是菲力。菲力牛排、西冷牛排、T骨牛排；这些名称都是英语翻译来的，他们各有各的特点，菲力牛排（FILET）也称牛里脊，腰内肉，特点是瘦肉较多，高蛋白，低脂 肪，比较适合喜欢减肥瘦身，要保持身材女子；西冷牛排（SIRLOIN）,也叫沙郎牛排，是外脊肉，牛的后腰肉，含一定肥油，尤其是外延有一圈呈白色的肉 筋，上口相比菲力牛排更有韧性、有搅劲，适合年轻人和牙口好的人。T骨牛排（T-BONE），是牛背上的脊骨肉，呈T字型，两侧一边是菲力，另一边是西冷，既可以尝到菲力牛排的鲜嫩又可以感受到西冷牛排的芳香，一举两得。我们在菜单上常看到的牛排种类有以下几种：*菲力牛排（Filet Mignon）：是来自牛的腰部的小块里嵴肉（Tenderloin），相当於猪的里肌肉部位。Filet Mignon 是法文字，是「小块里嵴肉」的意思，大块一点的里嵴肉称为 Tenderloin Steak。菲力是牛身中运动量最少的一块，所以质地超嫩得没话说，相对也精瘦得油花极少。很多人认为菲力高贵又不会太肥，实际上菲力纯粹是因每头牛就那 一小条而“物稀为贵”，太嫩太瘦的肉质，也意味著较缺乏肉汁及咬劲，并且烹煮过头一点就显得老涩，反而与讲究多汁嚼感的本地食客不太合。因此多推荐给牙口 不好，消化较弱的老人家或小朋友食用。*肋眼牛排（Rib's Eye Steak）：另一种便宜大碗，口感又受行家肯定的牛排是肋眼(Rib Eye)，顾名思义，它取自牛肋脊部位，或许比不上腰脊肉那样嫩，但“骨边肉”向来好吃，肋眼就有这种味道，油油嫩嫩的肉丝中夹著Q而有劲的油筋，比沙朗 耐嚼，比菲力够味，而且油花十分丰郁，请年轻男食客享用此味，好评总不断。肋眼牛排是取自牛的第6根到 第12根肋骨附近的肉，特色是多汁、肉嫩、而且有许多脂肪夹杂，红白相间像大理石一样称为（marbled steak）。通常上桌的肋眼牛排是已经去骨的。*T骨牛排（T-bone Steak）：T骨牛排取字于牛腰部后面的肉，在分割的时候会保留一块T 字形的牛骨，所以才有T骨牛排的称呼。T骨牛排通常份量比较大。 食量够大又懂牛排的美国饕客，乾脆就点丁骨(T Bone)或红屋( Porter House)牛排，大块肉排中间夹著 T 字形的大骨，一边是菲力，一边是纽约客，肉质一细嫩一粗犷，或油腴或爽俐，点一客统统吃得到。*纽约牛排（New York Steak）：纽约牛排也是取自上等无骨里嵴肉，也称为Top Loin Steak 或者 Strip Steak。至于为何称之为纽约牛排，至今无定论。有一种说法是早期在美国东部，所有牛隻宰杀后尚未冰冻前，都会送往纽约的肉舖分割出售，最好的里嵴肉当 然就留给纽约客享用了，信不信由你。*沙朗牛排 (sirloin steak)：也成为西冷牛排，就像猪肉要带点肥才会好吃，牛排行家偏好的，反而是带点油花嫩筋的部位，一般简称为“沙朗”或“西冷”，基本上皆取自牛只背脊一带最柔嫩的牛肉，但其中各有千秋。例如 和菲力同属於“前腰脊肉”的纽约客，它的肉质纤维较粗，微微带有嫩筋，油花分布不那均匀漂亮，却是标准的“嫩中带腴”，“香甜多汁”，嚼起来满口肉感，非 常过瘾，豪迈又具个性的风味，是许多行家最爱。　正宗的沙朗则取自“後腰脊肉”，也是牛只运动量极少的部位，肉质细嫩还油花满布，像大理石纹般美动人;相 对於菲力的精瘦，好的沙朗是超嫩鲜腴到入口即化的地步，让食客第一口就惊於牛肉的极致鲜甜。*牛小排（Short Rib/ Baby Ribs)：至於取自牛只胸腔左右两侧的牛小排，它带骨带筋又够肥腴的肉质，本来就很多汁耐嚼，特别是采用牛的第六，七根肋骨烹制成的“台塑牛小排”，嫩而不涩，肉量丰郁的全熟肉质，即使是怕生的本地食客也可怡然享用，更创造出牛小排的另类魅力。*除了以上几个品项，像牛肩胛部位的板腱肉，上肩胛肋眼心， 牛肚部位的腹胁肉，上後腿肉等，这些部位虽然肉质纤维较粗，但或因油花丰富媲美沙朗，或修去脂肪後的精瘦口感神似菲力，价位又只要高级肉排的三分之一，常 被价格诉求的业者拿来充作牛排。如果上餐厅付高价，却吃到名不副实的牛排，当然令人火大，但若拿来自家用，煎薄片牛排，涮火锅，烧肉，这些品项的肉品却非 常物超所值呢。最IN熟度 领略牛排菁华风味三分熟，就想到血淋淋的肉汁，所以还是指名“全熟”的牛排吧……如果你也这想，那表示你还未真正领略牛排的菁华风味。真正合格的三分熟高级牛排，端上来见不到血水的，看得到 的只有一样漂亮的焦棕褐色，表面浮渗著香甜的肉汁，嫩汪汪地绝对很诱人。就算下刀，切开的也不会是触目惊心的红生肉，而是像 Baby 脸颊般嫩嫩的粉红肉质，叉入口中，只待轻轻嚼动便温润即化，留下满口的鲜甜馀香。这样，才是“三分熟”。如此曼妙的口感若煎烤到全熟，可能比牛肉面里的牛肉还乾涩难当，所以一般专业大厨的建议，牛排都以三至八分熟为宜;但肉质不同，各有适合的熟度。美国肉类出口协会处长吴秋衡的建议是:精瘦的菲力，三至七分熟;油腴的沙朗，肋眼与纽约客，四至六分熟;带骨的丁骨及红屋，五至八分熟;牛小排，全熟。 点用的术语：问句：How would you like your steak?（您的牛排要几成熟？）牛排的烹调方式有煎（Grill）与烤（Roast）。Grill是烤架的意思，将牛排放在炭火上直接加热叫做煎，把牛排放到烤箱裡加热叫做烤（Roast），以下是介绍煎製牛排的生熟度：* Rare、Very Rare：极生，煎的（Grill）时间不超过3分钟。外表有烧烤过的痕迹，但是裡面还是冷得几乎没有受到热度。切开时还有血水渗出，但是肉质极嫩，口感多汁。* Rare：生，一分熟。煎的时间不超过4分钟。外表有烤焦痕迹，裡面肉质呈现原来红色，但入口有热度。切开时还有血水渗出，但是肉质极嫩，口感多汁。 * Medium Rare：中生，三分熟。煎的时间6~8分钟。外表有烧烤过的痕迹，但是裡面已经全面加热，可以感受到相当热度，但是肉质还是呈现红色。切开时还有稍许血水渗出，但是肉质嫩，口感多汁。* Medium：稍熟，五分熟。煎的时间8~10分钟。外表烧烤呈深褐色，但是裡面除了中间部分呈现粉红色外，外围部分呈现烧烤过的澹褐色。切开时流出褐色肉汁，需要咬上数口才能嚥下。* Medium Well：中熟，七分熟。煎的时间10~12分钟。外表烧烤呈深褐色，但是裡面核心部分呈现少许红色外，外围部分呈现烧烤过的褐色。切开时流出褐色肉汁，需要咬上数口才能嚥下。* Well Done：全熟。煎的时间12～15分钟外表已有明显烤焦痕迹，热度已经渗入整片肉，裡面肉色因为高度加热呈现深褐色。咬劲很够才能下嚥。挑品质 什么牛排最高级? 就像吃鱼一样，只要鲜度佳，就绝对好吃，牛排亦然。愈来 愈多餐厅饭店采用冷藏牛肉，也就是从工厂出品，运送进货到切割烹调前，全程都以 0 至 2 度的低温监控，以保持牛肉的鲜嫩风味。因为牛肉是红肉中最敏感娇贵的肉品，一路小心呵护再煎烤出来的牛排，就是比冷冻牛肉来得鲜活，腴嫩，多汁而甘美，只 要吃过便可辨出中差别，虽然成本要贵上数倍。 美国是牛肉生产与消费大国，因此美国农业部（US Dept. of Agriculture, USDA）也订出的不同品质牛肉的等级。美国农业部把牛肉分为8等Prime、Choice、Select、Standard、Commercial、 Utility、Cutter 与Canner。*Prime：约佔全部生产牛肉2%，在高级餐厅出售。肌肉含脂肪量（Intramuscular Fat）在 8~11%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度高。*Choice：肌肉含脂肪量在 4~8%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度中等，通常供应给超级市场。*Select：肌肉含脂肪量在 3~4%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度轻微。由于大理石纹路不明显，吃起来牛肉汁较少，口感较差，不适合用作牛排材料。*Standard：肌肉含脂肪量在 2.5~3%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度几乎不存在。*Commercial、Commercial、Utility、Cutter 与Canner这几级肌肉间脂肪和量极少，也没有大理石纹路，用在做绞肉（Ground Beef）如汉堡肉（Burger Patty）或其他牛肉加工製品。*牛排大理石纹路积分（Beef Marble Score）：所谓牛排大理石纹路，就是我们所谓的「雪花效果」，凡是脂肪问愈密集的等级愈高。神户牛排（Kobe Steak）的大理石纹路积分都要在9分以上。产地及等级，也会影响牛排的风味品质。本地牛排肉主要来自美国，其他还有加拿大，纽澳，日本及阿根廷。根据资深肉商的说法，纽澳，阿根廷的牛以青草放牧饲 育，肉质较纤瘦而具嚼感;美加取玉米谷物为饲料，以科学化圈养而成，运动量低，自然柔嫩肥腴，口感多汁带甜。而以“喝啤酒，听音乐，享受按摩”出名的日本 牛，油脂极丰郁，肉质极细致，但多吃几块便容易感腻，且实际进口量极少，有些店家号称是日本牛肉，其实拿美国牛顶替。另外在某些高级牛排屋正当红的“美国安格斯牛肉”，指的 是耳朵下垂，没有混到乳牛血统的纯种安格斯牛，美国有专门协会饲育此高级肉牛，只供应16至30个月龄，肉质符合Prime 及 Choice 两等级的优质牛肉。重点是获得授权贩售安格斯牛肉的餐厅，不得供应其他肉牛产品，堪称名副其实的“贵族”牛排。个人口味不一 搭配喜好佐料牛排配菜（Accompaniments）*马铃薯：Mashed Potato（马铃薯泥）或Baked Potato（烤马铃薯）、French Fries（马铃薯条），三者择一：前食用时可加肉汁调味；后者食用食用刀切开，可以涂上少许牛油（Butter）或食盐调味。*蔬菜：一小节煮过的玉蜀黍（Corn）、数颗绿色花椰菜（Broccoli）、洋葱（Onion）*蘑菰：数片小蘑菰比较高级的牛排餐的佐料会提供海鲜，例如一隻龙虾尾、或两隻炸明虾，通常称作「海陆大餐」（Surf and Turf）或者（Reef and Beef）。二者都有押韵。Surf 是冲浪代表海产、Turf是草地代表牛的饲料；Reef是礁石代表海产。牛排调味料（Condiment）有许多人食用牛排喜欢原味，不加任何调味料。但也有人喜欢家 一些调味料，冲澹牛排的血腥味。在一般大众化的牛排馆，供应瓶装有品牌的牛排酱（Steak Sauce），最有名的两个牌子是 A1 Steak Sauce 与Heinz 57 两种。非大众化的牛排馆供应由厨师自製的牛排酱汁，如蘑菇酱汁（Wild Mushroom Source）或者黑胡椒酱汁（Black Pepper Sauce）。牛排英语实用情景对话W：Good evening, my name is Lucy. I will be your waitress today. Can I get you any drinks?晚上好，我叫Lucy，今天将由我为您服务。请问您需要什么喝的吗？C：Yes. I would like an iced tea, please.我想要一杯冰红茶，谢谢。W：Here is your iced tea. Are you ready to order, or do you need a little more time? 这是您的冰红茶。请问您准备好要点餐了吗。还是您需要更多的时间考虑？C：Thank you. I'm ready to order.谢谢你。我已经准备好点餐了。W：No problem. Did you notice on our seafood special grilled tuna tonight? 不客气。您有注意到我们餐厅今晚的海鲜特餐烤金枪鱼吗？C：That sounds really good, but I think I'll have the New York steak.听起来非常不错，但是我想我还是要纽约牛排吧。W：Sure, how would you like that steak?您想要几分熟的牛排呢？C：Medium, please.五分熟，谢谢。W：Sure. The New York steak is served with mashed potatoes, a baked potato, or steak fries.好的。纽约牛排的配菜是土豆泥、烤土豆或者薯条。C：I'll take the baked potato，please.我想要烤土豆，谢谢。W：Ok. Your order will be served soon.您点的餐马上就会做好，请稍等。C：Thank you.谢谢您。

Genet & Christina wrap up 2019 & Season One! They have an open discussion about what it means to be “radical”, the pressures of being a “picture perfect” blended family and why it’s important to keep dating your spouse. There MAY have been 2 bottles of wine involved in the making of this one...so cheers, and Happy Holidays! ****Note From G&C: Thank you so much for all your support this year! We appreciate all of you and we’re excited for 2020 and making Season 2 even more radical! Find us on Instagram: @radicalstepmomspodcast Website: www.radicalstepmomspodcast.com Email: radicalstepmomspodcast@gmail.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/radicalstepmoms/message

Hi everyone, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the We Make Books Podcast - A podcast about writing, publishing, and everything in between! Week Three of Submissions September and oh boy did we really run with it this time!  This week we are bringing you not one, not two, but three episodes and they’re all about those mysterious creatures known Literary Agents.  Who are they?  What do they do?  How do you summon one?  For this episode, we sat down with Literary Agent Caitlin McDonald to discuss all this and more.  We loved talking with Caitlin and hope that our discussion might remove a bit of the fear and mystery from proccess of querying agents.  Caitlin is with the Donald Maass Literary Agency and you can (and should!) check her out her and her work at: Website: http://maassagency.com/caitlin-mcdonald/ Twitter: @literallycait - https://twitter.com/literallycait/status/1154917792619139073 Tumbler: https://literallycait.tumblr.com/   And be sure to check out new and upcoming releases from some of her clients!   The Resurrectionist of Caligo: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KDWLM3P The Library of the Unwritten: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/608277/the-library-of-the-unwritten-by-a-j-hackwith/9781984806376/ In case you’re just joining us, this month is Submissions September on the We Make Books Podcast!  We’re doing seven (7!) episodes this month all about the process of submitting your novel.  We have a lot of awesome discussions lined up and even some special guests.  Here’s what will be coming your way for the month: Week 1 (9/3/2019): Is This Ready For Other People to See?- Submitting Your Manuscript Week 2 (9/10/2019): My Entire Novel in Three Hundred Words - The Dreaded Query Letter Week 3 (9/17/2019): Agents of Literature, Part 1: An Interview with Literary Agent Caitlin McDonald               (9/18/2019): Agents of Literature, Part 2: Interviews with Agented Authors               (9/19/2019): Agents of Literature Part 3: Interviews with Agented Authors Week 4 (9/24/2019):What is Going On Over There? - The Other Side of the Submissions Process Week 5 (9/30/2019): Now I’m Even More Confused – Submissions September Q&A Episode We Make Books is hosted by Rekka Jay and Kaelyn Considine; Rekka is a published author and Kaelyn is an editor and together they are going to take you through what goes into getting a book out of your head, on to paper, in to the hands of a publisher, and finally on to book store shelves. We Make Books is a podcast for writer and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, concerns, and any stress relief suggestions for Kaelyn while she deals with the Giants’ will-they-won’t-they Eli Manning and Daniel Jones situation. Seriously guys, she can’t do a whole season of this. We hope you enjoy We Make Books!   Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap Instagram: @WMBCast  Patreon.com/WMBCast     Kaelyn (K): Hey everyone, welcome, another episode of the We Make Books podcast, a show about writing, publishing, and everything in between. I'm Kaelyn Considine, I'm the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. Rekka (R): And I'm Rekka and I write Science Fiction and Fantasy as R J Theodore. K: So Week Three, Submissions September. And this week's a doozy. R: We've got a lot of episodes for you this week. K: Yeah, so, what we ended up doing instead of just one episode about agents, we.. you're actually getting three this week. The first one is going to be an interview with an actual literary agent. Caitlin McDonald took some time to talk to us, she was lovely, we had such a great conversation and that's what you're going to be listening to today. Then, we have two more episodes that we're going to be putting out Wednesday and Thursday. R: Yeah, we're just going back to back with this. K: And we talked to six different authors about their process getting an agent... R: They're experience working with them. K: Yeah, cause I think there's... what we're learning, talking to people, there's a lot of mystery around this. R: Yeah. Mmm-hmm. K: Everyone is very uncertain about what agents do, and how you get one. R: And how you're allowed to use them. K: Yes. Yeah, so we had a really great time talking to Caitlin who gave us some really interesting insight and... Yeah, Week Three: Agents. We… Three episodes, because it turns out there's a lot to say about that. R: You know, this is a big part of it for a lot of people. K: Yeah, it's the check mark. It's a huge check mark for a lot of people in this process is: “Get agent." So take a listen, we had a great time talking to Caitlin and hopefully you enjoy the episode. [music] 02:01  Caitlin (C): I’m Caitlin McDonald. I'm a literary agent at Donald Maass literary agency. I represent primarily Science Fiction and Fantasy for adult and young adult, as well as a little bit of nonfiction. I've been in the business for... I think, eight or nine years no? I lost track, but around there. R: So over eight or nine years you've seen it change a little bit, with going, you know, so heavy on digital all of a sudden, and the opportunities for print on demand, opening up smaller publishers… C: Yeah, absolutely. Actually, at my first agency I was involved in a lot of reworking backlist contracts that had no language for digital to kind of, you know, deal with that change that was really becoming a huge deal. That was 2011, so... there was a lot. It was, obviously 2008 was kind of when digital really hit the market—  K: Yeah. R: Right. C: —started to become... um, but like, 2011 was when people really said, "Okay, this isn't going away. This is serious." [Kaelyn and Caitlin talking over each other and laughing.] K: Oh, people will read things off screens! They don't always need the physical book in their hand. C: And it's not going to kill paper! K: No, no not it's not. C: It's a supplement. K: Yeah. So, Caitlin, could you maybe tell us a little about what a literary agent does? Because I think there's a lot of misconceptions out there about, like, "Oh, as soon as I get an agent, that's it, then my book's gonna get signed," or, "I'm never gonna do this unless I get a literary agent." Um, I think a lot of authors who are looking for agents maybe don't always know what the agent will do for them. What their job is, after you sign with them. C: Sure, so there are some things that kind of differ from agent to agent, particularly, there's also differences between if you have an agent who focuses on Non Fiction or, versus Fiction. So, it's always worth having a conversation with an agent and asking this question of them directly if they're offering representation because their answer may vary from what I'm about to describe here. But, at the, you know, the basic level, typically, in addition to most of us these days do editorial. So, I will do at least two rounds on a manuscript before I send it out on submission even after I've acquired it, there's always gonna be at least one round of line editing but usually even before that, I'm doing at least one round of structural edits, areas where I'm saying, "I love this character but strengthen their character arc, you know, make their motivations clearer.” “X Y Z isn't working, let's find a way to fix that.” So, I always make sure that I'm doing editorial before we go out on submission. Obviously, submission is the Big Thing™, that's what everyone gets an agent for, but even after we have that deal in place for you, part of our job is to negotiate it so that it's the best deal it could be, both in terms of the offers but also the contract language. So sometimes there are elements that, you know, authors don't necessarily know or that don't come up in the offer point, so it's not a deal point of how much money you're getting, what sub-rights you're contracting out, but really nitty gritty language in the contract that might be boilerplate between the agency and the publishing house but maybe the publisher recently revised their standard contract, so we have to make sure that the language is still what we agreed to. You know, really little things, we're here to make sure that everything is the best it could possibly be for our authors. And then, also staying on top of everything afterwards as well. Os I don't just well, “Here's your editor, the book deal is signed, it's their problem." I'm still there to make sure that you know, everyone is on target for deadline, that the publisher is delivering on publicity and marketing that they agreed to. That, if there are any concerns coming up, a copyeditor who's making changes that the author doesn't like—I've had that problem before. Anything that, you know, any concerns my author has, any discrepancies, any time issues, all of that, I'm here to kind of be a mediator between my author and the publisher. If an author has a problem with anything, if they have a question they're afraid to ask the editor directly, I'm here to kind of be the difficult person so that the author can maintain their good relationship with the editor. The author should never have to ask a hard question or demand something that is going to seem pushy, because that's my job. I'm the one who gets to be pushy and maybe be the person that the publisher goes, "Ugh, them again." But they'll get to have a good relationship with their author. K: I always really enjoy going through the agent because authors, you know, don't wanna be pushy and they're a little, "Oh, I don't want to step on anyone's toes here," and with the agent it's like, "Okay, let's just figure this out." C: Exactly. We also know what's standard. What's a reasonable request where we can come in and say, "Okay, the publisher's not going to be able to do that but here's a compromise that we can suggest." So we can help mediate a lot of those elements where an author may want something but not know whether it's standard, whether it's something that they should ask for or can ask for, not knowing what is normal. K: Yeah I mean for a lot of authors this is kinda their first foray into publishing and it's overwhelming and it's things that they think they should know already and they really don't. And there's no reason that they should. So, yeah, having and agent, someone that's in your court and able to help you navigate that is so valuable. A lot of people who're going to be listening to this probably do not have an agent already, and they want one. When you're evaluating potential clients to take on. What are you looking for? Obviously a good book is the first major component. But beyond that, is there anything you kind of take into consideration when making decisions on these things? C: Certainly there's an element of understanding how to pitch, clear market identity, knowing that they clearly understand and read within their genre. So, they may... I don't expect them to, you know, know every, have read every book and be as on top of the industry and what's coming out in the next, you know, year, as someone who's in the industry, but I do expect that they read within their genre, that they have comp titles that are relevant, that they show an understanding of what readers are looking for in the sense that they themselves are a reader. So sometimes I'll see queries that come in and describe.. some.. they say, "Oh, this pitch is something that's never been done before," and clearly it has. Then I'm going, "Okay. You definitely don't read this genre at all, and this is probably not a good fit." You need to really make sure you're reading in your genre and demonstrate some understanding of it, because otherwise we will be able to tell. Uh, the other thing that is really helpful is a little bit of that personalization when you're pitching to an agent can just be really helpful. It's not necessary, per se, but I do find it incredibly helpful to show that you know, you've done a little bit of research and it gets me more excited about a project if you know things that I'm specifically looking for. Not just my genre but specific details of things I'm interested in things that I'm looking for that you can cite and say, "Yes, my work has this and I know you want that." Then that can really get me excited about it before I even get to the sample pages and that's a really good way of grabbing an agent's attention. K: You hear that, listeners? Slapping the same thing together and sending it out over and over again is not the best way to get someone's attention, actually doing some research and putting some time into —because that's something we talk about a lot, is this is not an easy process, so if it seems easy to you you're probably not doing it the right way.  R: So one place that folks can find your particular manuscript interests would be on your submissions page? Your submissions guidelines, generally. Um, lightly browse (do not stalk) your twitter, and if the agent is listed on Manuscript Wishlist, which is a website that like, puts together a lot of agents. They can fill out profiles and keep it updated themselves of what they're looking for. That's a couple of places where you can find out, is this agent interested in something I'm writing, and also a lot of agents will have the headers on their social media include the books they've worked on. So if you look at that header photo, it's like a real quick double-check. Is anything.. do I write like anything on here. One, if you haven't read anything on there, stop what you're doing if you're really interested in that agent, and read something that they've worked on. But, it's a quick check, just like, "None of this is anything like what I write, maybe I should look for a different agent, and not waste their time." K: Yeah. Along those lines, one of the questions we had sent along was, "Agents, when they open for queries, this has to do with the alignment of the stars, correct?" C: Absolutely. K: "And the tidal forces of the moon and..." R: "Magic. Lots of magic." K: "And various other natural phenomenon." But when those things happen, what makes you decide like, "Okay, I'm ready to be open for queries again. I'm ready to take on new clients"?
C: I man, I'm sure it's different for every agent. For me, specifically, it really has to do with how much time that I have. How I'm doing with current client manuscripts. Whether I've caught up on all of the queries already in my inbox. That's often something I have to make a really concentrated push, after I close to queries, to then get through all of the ones that are still need to be responded to. Then give myself a little bit of time to get through some manuscripts. I wish I could say that I only open to queries when I've responded to all of the fulls that I've already requested, but that's not the case because then I'd probably never open to queries." K: as an acquisitions editor, I can say the same thing, that I always have a few that I'm still working through but it's like, "But I also need more for the future, so we're gonna open for submissions again." It's hard to balance that. C: Yeah, yeah it is and the work-life balance as well, there's so many elements. Because I think the thing to keep in mind is that most agents aren't reading queries during work hours. They're reading them during their own personal time. Our work hours are dedicated to our clients, editing manuscripts, possibly reading fulls, but for the most part, it is working on our clients and editing the existing manuscripts, going out on submission, making sure everything is up to date. All of the work that is involved with being an agent for our existing clients is pretty much a full time job and finding new clients to add to our list is an important part of our job but it also usually happens outside of the parameters of our forty-fifty hour work week whatever you .. however you define that. I'm often sending queries at ten o'clock at night and that's just how it is. When you have the time for it. K; Yeah. Same thing. I get responses from people that are like, "Uh, were you up this late?" I'm like, "I'm up that late every night. That's when I get my work done!" We talked about this a little you know, when you said what does a literary agent do, but: relationships with authors. Obviously, like, one of your big things is, you're in that person's court. You are their advocate, you are there, making sure that they get the best possible publishing deal, making sure everyone's happy, handling difficult situations for them. But beyond that, your relationship with a writer, what is that like? What do they expect from you? Obviously, it will change depending on how things are happening in their career, but what's your relationship like leading up to a release and then, for example, afterwards? C: This is such a good question because it' actually really important for an author to know what they need about themselves before, if they can. Which is hard to know if you've never had an agent, but if you can try to figure out 'what's important to me?' beforehand, then having that conversation helps you know whether the agent is going to be a good fit for you. Because it really varies for all of my clients. Some of them, you know, I'm in almost constant touch with. Some of them I only head from them when they have a manuscript ready and they send it and it's already revised and they feel like they just... "here it is!" and others are going, "Here are my next... here are one-sentence pitches for my next eight ideas, which one should I do?" "Here's a partial draft." so it really really varies. I've got some authors where I'm working with them on all sorts of different levels of early stages of manuscripts and others that don't come to me until they've got something nearly complete, or at least a full first draft, or a full synopsis, you know, it really really varies. and then the level of contact that they want also varies from author to author there are some who I'm here as you know an emotional support as well as all of the other tasks that my job entails. And then others who are very happy to sort of sit back and only reach out when they actually have a specific publishing question or concern that needs to be addresses. So it really really varies, wildly and it's important to kind of know "how much do I want my agent to be in touch?""Am I more comfortable with email of phone?" "Am I going to be someone who wants to be able to text my agent?" These are the kind of questions that it helps to be able to look a little bit inside and say, "this is.. these are the kinds of communication limits that I want with an agent," and to talk to them about it beforehand and make sure that that's what you're going to be getting from the agent you're looking for. K: Well now, you, I'm sure, in a lot of situations, have to set some boundaries. C: That is true, um, but it.. there often, I find, it's something that is done not necessarily explicitly. I kind of set what I'm comfortable with and if that means I'm not responding to emails that aren't super important on the weekend, then that's just something isn't necessarily discussed beforehand, per se? I know this sounds a little bit contradictory to what I just said, but like R: No but by your responses, you're setting their expectations. C: Exactly. Exactly. K: I know some people that, when they first signed with their agent they're like, "I have this question," and I'm like, "Well go ask your agent then." C: Yes. Exactly. K: "That's what they're there for." "I don't wanna bother them." "That.. I.. you are not bothering them. Other.. you know, you're not calling them at one in the morning having a breakdown about something." That's bothering. Don't do that. C:  Yes, exactly. We're here as a resource so you should always feel comfortable reaching out to your agent about anything that is publishing and work related. That, at least, you should always feel comfortable doing. They might set the parameters of how to do that. Is it okay to just call them ay any time, or do they prefer email? Do they give you their number so you can text them? Depends. I mean, I know many agents prefer not to do that which I think is absolutely a good idea but I'm sure that there are some that are perfectly comfortable with it. So you know, having that conversation beforehand and finding what their preferred system is so that you know whether it's compatible with your preferred system, that's really the key. K: Gotcha. So, we had kind of also talked about this briefly, but one of the other questions we wanted to talk about is, and I'm gonna kinda combine two things here: what catches your eye in query letters, in authors that are querying you, and at the same time, what are some red flags? C: So, what catches my eye, I think'd be a little like what I talked about before, something that really speaks to me personally and actually addresses things that I have specifically said that I'm looking for. Anything that is particularly really unique, like actually finds a way to give me an unexpected twist within the pitch itself. I'm also.. I do really appreciate comp titles that kind of combine, you know, taking two very very disparate comps and combining them to say "here are two things that are nothing alike but if you combined them, that's my book." Then you can get a sense of, "Oh, here is something really new and unique." I once got a query that said it's Jane Austin's Emma meets Dexter. And then.. K: Oh! C: Yeah, and then the plots came out, like, Yes, that makes sense! But getting that, those kind of comp titles, I went, "That is very interesting and I want to learn more." So, you know, it's.. comp titles don't have to be like that but they can be a very interesting way to condense a unique aspect of your book into one creative, short pithy pitch. In terms of red flags, I think it's often a, like I said before, very clear not understanding of their genre or the type of book I'm looking for if they very clearly have misunderstood, not just the genre per se, but something say, comes in and is pretty heavily misogynistic in a certain way or something that just, like, if you check my social media, I'm very clearly not interested in works that are, you know, a certain way, even if they are science fiction or fantasy. And then, also I would say another huge red flag is authors who feel the need to attack other authors or existing books for a genre in their query letter. K: Oh really?
C: that is never good. don't be that person. K: No. C: Yes, I've definitely those books that come in say, "Well, this book was terrible," or "Nothing in YA is good anymore," or, "Twilight was terrible!" K: Oh my god. C: Don't be that person. That's... you know, don't attack other authors in your query. It's not a good look. K: I'm making this face right now because I have read so many query letters and I have never seen that.  C: Really? K: That's like. now see, watch.. cause we're open for submissions now so I'm gonna get like ten of those. Now that I've said that but like, oh my god, wow. I thought I'd seen everything. That's a new one. Okay. R: Actually that comes up on Twitter a lot. I see a lot of agents saying "Please don't do this. You know, don't insult J K Rowling because you think that will make your book sound more intelligent. It doesn't." K: It doesn't and I mean, you know. Come on, Harry Potter. R:  Regardless of whether you like it, it was very successful. An agent wouldn't mind a Harry Potter. C: And it sets yu up as a person who is going to be not someone who plays ball with the industry if you're going to be someone like that then that doesn't send a good message about the type of person you're going to be in terms of how you interact with other authors and publishers. and the fact is other authors: those are your peers, those are your support network. you need other authors because their success is your success. And their blurbs are how you get found and you all have to support each other and so if you're not going to be interested in doing that then you're probably not going to succeed in the book industry. K: I've done a couple things over the years and a question I get a lot is well you guys are like, you know a small independent press, and "yes, we are, it's a lot of fun," "So what about competition from this what about..." It's not like... it's not competition. People, I think. It's not the same as cheering for a sports team. You don't love one team and therefor their failure is other teams' success. People who love and read these genres of books are just going to keep looking for more things to read. So everyone succeeding you know especially in similar veins that you're working in, that's great for you as an author because that means more people might come across your book as a result of that. C: Exactly. K: But it is very interesting when you look at these and you're evaluating if you think you can work with this person. Can I help no only them but like, I need to be successful here. Your author's success is the agent's success but you still have to work within the industry and you still have to be able to put together and sell a book at the end of the day and if you're presenting yourself in a way that's gonna make your agent think "I'm not sure I can do this with this person" that's gonna drive them away.  R: We talk a lot about querying an agent for the first time, creating a new relationship with them, but frequently, especially in genre fiction, book deals are for more than one book. So once you have entered into like the second in a series or the second book that's been optioned as part of the same contract, does your relationship change with the author at all? C: Um, yes, so it's very much, I think, it depends from agent to agent but for me, I'm very much willing to work with authors as early as they have pitch ideas. So they will come to me with, you know, ideas, with early drafts, and I'll be definitely working on things much earlier than I would be than a query. So, obviously, when you query your manuscript should be as close to final as you can possibly make it. You should have already had some beta readers, you should have already done editing, and so at that point the hope is that it will only take a few more rounds with an agent before it's ready to go on submission. Obviously for your second or third book, and books after that, that's necessarily not the case. So yes, I am seeing much earlier drafts. I have worked on books that are completely rewritten from scratch multiple times before going to the publisher ad also part of it is deciding what the next book should be sometimes. So I've had clients where we look at their first book and where it fit in the market place, and their other book ideas, some of which might be very different from the first book, and others might be in between and we say, "okay, how do you want to be positioned in the marketplace as your career? Do you want to be a YA author or do you want to be an adult author? Do you want to be a horror author or do you want to be a fantasy author? If you want to be both that's fine, but if you really feel strongly about one of these things, and you just happen to have one book idea that falls outside that parameter, then maybe we don't so that as the second book, maybe that's the third or fourth. Maybe that's an outlier book." So, figuring out how the author wants to be positioned in the marketplace and making sure that we are following a trajectory that will achieve that is part of what I help them do. K: That's something that I think a lot of people don't realize a lot of agents do is, basically helping the author come up with an identity. And how they're gonna fit into the marketplace, what they want to be known for. Yeah that's really interesting to think about as well. Anything that you wish people knew about literary agents? Any giant misconceptions you frequently come across? You know, obviously the stuff about the bloodletting is all ~true, but the rest of it? C: I think that the big thing I would  just... I really wish to share with people is that I promise we're not scary. It's... We're just people like you. We just love books, like you. I.. when I got to conferences there are so many people who are so scared and I just want to hug them and say, "No, it's okay, I promise.. there's nothing to be scared of." K: Wait, quick qualification. If you run into Caitlin at a conference do not walk up to her and hug her immediately. Ask first. C: Thank you. Fair. Thank you. Yeah, but I also there's just a I feel like there's a I don't wanna say a culture of self-rejection but there is.. I see a lot of self-rejection— K: Oh, yeah, absolutely. C: —on the internet and on social media and people will ask me, "Can I query you?" and I'm going, "Why are you asking me? Just do it. Just do it!" You know, alway always give it a shot and you know, we're just here because we love books and we want to help you succeed. Like we want authors to succeed. We want books to succeed. We're not out here saying no to books because we're up in a castle laughing at all of you. We really really want these books to succeed. We want to see more books that we love. And most of the time, when we reject something, it's with a heavy heart. It's, "I love this pitch but the writing just wasn't quite there yet, but man, I hope they come back to me with another project in a couple of years when they've really honed their skill and improved their writing." You know that's really where we're coming from is, "Not this one, but keep working at it. We're waiting for you to come back next time and really nail it." K: to everyone I hope hearing that is encouraging. I'm encouraged just listening to it and I'm not even querying an agent. Thank you so much for talking to us. This was really a lot of fun. I really enjoyed this conversation. C: Of course, well thank you for having me, it's been great.  K: So, where can people find you on the socials? C: I'm on most social media @literallycait that's c-a-i-t short for Caitlin, and on the Donald Maass website which is MaassAgency.com. R: Alright so is there anything else that you wanna tease for people, books coming out or anything like that? C: Sure I've got a couple really exciting books coming out over the next month or two. We've got The Resurrectionist of Caligo by Wendy Trimboli and Alicia Zaloga, which is very very exciting. Kind of dark Victorian-esque fantasy, which would be great for anyone who's a fan of the podcast Sawbones. If you're into that you'll definitely like this book. And I've also got The Library of the Unwritten, by A J Hackwith, which is K: Yes C: Fabulous Hell based fntasy about books that are unwritten escaping their library and going on walkabout and the librarion having to chase them down it's very fun and if you love books it really explores the concepts of narrative and character and what it means to have those elements and give them agency so it's a really it's a love letter to the concept of writing. It's fabulous. K: That one's on my list, I'm very excited for that one. C: Oh good. K: Okay, so. The take away here: Agents; they're people just like the rest of us. R: At least one is. K: One of them anyway. The rest are in the castle. R: Okay, thank you so much Caitlin, we really appreciate your time. C: Thank you. 31:34 [Music]
R: Thanks, everyone, for joining us for another episode of We Make Books. If you have any questions that you want answered in future episodes or just have questions in general remember you can find us on twitter @WMBcast, same for instagram, or WMBcast.com. If you find value in the content we provide, we would really appreciate your support at patreon.com/WMBcast. If you can't provide financial support, we totally understand, and what you could really do to help us is spread the word about this podcast. You can do that by sharing a particular episode with a friend who can find it useful, or if you leave a rating and review at iTunes, it will feed that algorithm and help other people find our podcast too. Of course you can always retweet our episodes on twitter.  Thank you so much for listening and we will talk to you soon.

通常在西餐厅的菜单裡，会出现关于牛排（Steak）的项目，大都是牛肉的种类（牛身上的部位）。但是除了牛肉的种类、等级（Grade）以外，你还会被侍 者问到烹调牛排的生熟度（Degree of Cooking），以及配料（Accompaniments）、调味料（Condiment）等问题。让我们来一一认识在餐馆点牛排的种种规格。牛排的种类菲力，沙朗，肋眼，纽约客，丁骨，红屋，肋排，牛小排……这些牛排屋菜单上常见的字眼，全指的是牛排肉取材的部位。啊哈，又想选菲力吗?其实，真正的牛排行家，会依自己喜好的口感质地，来选择适合部位的牛排。而且通常，都不会是菲力。菲力牛排、西冷牛排、T骨牛排；这些名称都是英语翻译来的，他们各有各的特点，菲力牛排（FILET）也称牛里脊，腰内肉，特点是瘦肉较多，高蛋白，低脂 肪，比较适合喜欢减肥瘦身，要保持身材女子；西冷牛排（SIRLOIN）,也叫沙郎牛排，是外脊肉，牛的后腰肉，含一定肥油，尤其是外延有一圈呈白色的肉 筋，上口相比菲力牛排更有韧性、有搅劲，适合年轻人和牙口好的人。T骨牛排（T-BONE），是牛背上的脊骨肉，呈T字型，两侧一边是菲力，另一边是西冷，既可以尝到菲力牛排的鲜嫩又可以感受到西冷牛排的芳香，一举两得。我们在菜单上常看到的牛排种类有以下几种：*菲力牛排（Filet Mignon）：是来自牛的腰部的小块里嵴肉（Tenderloin），相当於猪的里肌肉部位。Filet Mignon 是法文字，是「小块里嵴肉」的意思，大块一点的里嵴肉称为 Tenderloin Steak。菲力是牛身中运动量最少的一块，所以质地超嫩得没话说，相对也精瘦得油花极少。很多人认为菲力高贵又不会太肥，实际上菲力纯粹是因每头牛就那 一小条而“物稀为贵”，太嫩太瘦的肉质，也意味著较缺乏肉汁及咬劲，并且烹煮过头一点就显得老涩，反而与讲究多汁嚼感的本地食客不太合。因此多推荐给牙口 不好，消化较弱的老人家或小朋友食用。*肋眼牛排（Rib's Eye Steak）：另一种便宜大碗，口感又受行家肯定的牛排是肋眼(Rib Eye)，顾名思义，它取自牛肋脊部位，或许比不上腰脊肉那样嫩，但“骨边肉”向来好吃，肋眼就有这种味道，油油嫩嫩的肉丝中夹著Q而有劲的油筋，比沙朗 耐嚼，比菲力够味，而且油花十分丰郁，请年轻男食客享用此味，好评总不断。肋眼牛排是取自牛的第6根到 第12根肋骨附近的肉，特色是多汁、肉嫩、而且有许多脂肪夹杂，红白相间像大理石一样称为（marbled steak）。通常上桌的肋眼牛排是已经去骨的。*T骨牛排（T-bone Steak）：T骨牛排取字于牛腰部后面的肉，在分割的时候会保留一块T 字形的牛骨，所以才有T骨牛排的称呼。T骨牛排通常份量比较大。 食量够大又懂牛排的美国饕客，乾脆就点丁骨(T Bone)或红屋( Porter House)牛排，大块肉排中间夹著 T 字形的大骨，一边是菲力，一边是纽约客，肉质一细嫩一粗犷，或油腴或爽俐，点一客统统吃得到。*纽约牛排（New York Steak）：纽约牛排也是取自上等无骨里嵴肉，也称为Top Loin Steak 或者 Strip Steak。至于为何称之为纽约牛排，至今无定论。有一种说法是早期在美国东部，所有牛隻宰杀后尚未冰冻前，都会送往纽约的肉舖分割出售，最好的里嵴肉当 然就留给纽约客享用了，信不信由你。*沙朗牛排 (sirloin steak)：也成为西冷牛排，就像猪肉要带点肥才会好吃，牛排行家偏好的，反而是带点油花嫩筋的部位，一般简称为“沙朗”或“西冷”，基本上皆取自牛只背脊一带最柔嫩的牛肉，但其中各有千秋。例如 和菲力同属於“前腰脊肉”的纽约客，它的肉质纤维较粗，微微带有嫩筋，油花分布不那均匀漂亮，却是标准的“嫩中带腴”，“香甜多汁”，嚼起来满口肉感，非 常过瘾，豪迈又具个性的风味，是许多行家最爱。　正宗的沙朗则取自“後腰脊肉”，也是牛只运动量极少的部位，肉质细嫩还油花满布，像大理石纹般美动人;相 对於菲力的精瘦，好的沙朗是超嫩鲜腴到入口即化的地步，让食客第一口就惊於牛肉的极致鲜甜。*牛小排（Short Rib/ Baby Ribs)：至於取自牛只胸腔左右两侧的牛小排，它带骨带筋又够肥腴的肉质，本来就很多汁耐嚼，特别是采用牛的第六，七根肋骨烹制成的“台塑牛小排”，嫩而不涩，肉量丰郁的全熟肉质，即使是怕生的本地食客也可怡然享用，更创造出牛小排的另类魅力。*除了以上几个品项，像牛肩胛部位的板腱肉，上肩胛肋眼心， 牛肚部位的腹胁肉，上後腿肉等，这些部位虽然肉质纤维较粗，但或因油花丰富媲美沙朗，或修去脂肪後的精瘦口感神似菲力，价位又只要高级肉排的三分之一，常 被价格诉求的业者拿来充作牛排。如果上餐厅付高价，却吃到名不副实的牛排，当然令人火大，但若拿来自家用，煎薄片牛排，涮火锅，烧肉，这些品项的肉品却非 常物超所值呢。最IN熟度 领略牛排菁华风味三分熟，就想到血淋淋的肉汁，所以还是指名“全熟”的牛排吧……如果你也这想，那表示你还未真正领略牛排的菁华风味。真正合格的三分熟高级牛排，端上来见不到血水的，看得到 的只有一样漂亮的焦棕褐色，表面浮渗著香甜的肉汁，嫩汪汪地绝对很诱人。就算下刀，切开的也不会是触目惊心的红生肉，而是像 Baby 脸颊般嫩嫩的粉红肉质，叉入口中，只待轻轻嚼动便温润即化，留下满口的鲜甜馀香。这样，才是“三分熟”。如此曼妙的口感若煎烤到全熟，可能比牛肉面里的牛肉还乾涩难当，所以一般专业大厨的建议，牛排都以三至八分熟为宜;但肉质不同，各有适合的熟度。美国肉类出口协会处长吴秋衡的建议是:精瘦的菲力，三至七分熟;油腴的沙朗，肋眼与纽约客，四至六分熟;带骨的丁骨及红屋，五至八分熟;牛小排，全熟。 点用的术语：问句：How would you like your steak?（您的牛排要几成熟？）牛排的烹调方式有煎（Grill）与烤（Roast）。Grill是烤架的意思，将牛排放在炭火上直接加热叫做煎，把牛排放到烤箱裡加热叫做烤（Roast），以下是介绍煎製牛排的生熟度：* Rare、Very Rare：极生，煎的（Grill）时间不超过3分钟。外表有烧烤过的痕迹，但是裡面还是冷得几乎没有受到热度。切开时还有血水渗出，但是肉质极嫩，口感多汁。* Rare：生，一分熟。煎的时间不超过4分钟。外表有烤焦痕迹，裡面肉质呈现原来红色，但入口有热度。切开时还有血水渗出，但是肉质极嫩，口感多汁。 * Medium Rare：中生，三分熟。煎的时间6~8分钟。外表有烧烤过的痕迹，但是裡面已经全面加热，可以感受到相当热度，但是肉质还是呈现红色。切开时还有稍许血水渗出，但是肉质嫩，口感多汁。* Medium：稍熟，五分熟。煎的时间8~10分钟。外表烧烤呈深褐色，但是裡面除了中间部分呈现粉红色外，外围部分呈现烧烤过的澹褐色。切开时流出褐色肉汁，需要咬上数口才能嚥下。* Medium Well：中熟，七分熟。煎的时间10~12分钟。外表烧烤呈深褐色，但是裡面核心部分呈现少许红色外，外围部分呈现烧烤过的褐色。切开时流出褐色肉汁，需要咬上数口才能嚥下。* Well Done：全熟。煎的时间12～15分钟外表已有明显烤焦痕迹，热度已经渗入整片肉，裡面肉色因为高度加热呈现深褐色。咬劲很够才能下嚥。挑品质 什么牛排最高级? 就像吃鱼一样，只要鲜度佳，就绝对好吃，牛排亦然。愈来 愈多餐厅饭店采用冷藏牛肉，也就是从工厂出品，运送进货到切割烹调前，全程都以 0 至 2 度的低温监控，以保持牛肉的鲜嫩风味。因为牛肉是红肉中最敏感娇贵的肉品，一路小心呵护再煎烤出来的牛排，就是比冷冻牛肉来得鲜活，腴嫩，多汁而甘美，只 要吃过便可辨出中差别，虽然成本要贵上数倍。 美国是牛肉生产与消费大国，因此美国农业部（US Dept. of Agriculture, USDA）也订出的不同品质牛肉的等级。美国农业部把牛肉分为8等Prime、Choice、Select、Standard、Commercial、 Utility、Cutter 与Canner。*Prime：约佔全部生产牛肉2%，在高级餐厅出售。肌肉含脂肪量（Intramuscular Fat）在 8~11%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度高。*Choice：肌肉含脂肪量在 4~8%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度中等，通常供应给超级市场。*Select：肌肉含脂肪量在 3~4%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度轻微。由于大理石纹路不明显，吃起来牛肉汁较少，口感较差，不适合用作牛排材料。*Standard：肌肉含脂肪量在 2.5~3%之间，瘦肉与肥肉夹杂的大理石纹路明显度几乎不存在。*Commercial、Commercial、Utility、Cutter 与Canner这几级肌肉间脂肪和量极少，也没有大理石纹路，用在做绞肉（Ground Beef）如汉堡肉（Burger Patty）或其他牛肉加工製品。*牛排大理石纹路积分（Beef Marble Score）：所谓牛排大理石纹路，就是我们所谓的「雪花效果」，凡是脂肪问愈密集的等级愈高。神户牛排（Kobe Steak）的大理石纹路积分都要在9分以上。产地及等级，也会影响牛排的风味品质。本地牛排肉主要来自美国，其他还有加拿大，纽澳，日本及阿根廷。根据资深肉商的说法，纽澳，阿根廷的牛以青草放牧饲 育，肉质较纤瘦而具嚼感;美加取玉米谷物为饲料，以科学化圈养而成，运动量低，自然柔嫩肥腴，口感多汁带甜。而以“喝啤酒，听音乐，享受按摩”出名的日本 牛，油脂极丰郁，肉质极细致，但多吃几块便容易感腻，且实际进口量极少，有些店家号称是日本牛肉，其实拿美国牛顶替。另外在某些高级牛排屋正当红的“美国安格斯牛肉”，指的 是耳朵下垂，没有混到乳牛血统的纯种安格斯牛，美国有专门协会饲育此高级肉牛，只供应16至30个月龄，肉质符合Prime 及 Choice 两等级的优质牛肉。重点是获得授权贩售安格斯牛肉的餐厅，不得供应其他肉牛产品，堪称名副其实的“贵族”牛排。个人口味不一 搭配喜好佐料牛排配菜（Accompaniments）*马铃薯：Mashed Potato（马铃薯泥）或Baked Potato（烤马铃薯）、French Fries（马铃薯条），三者择一：前食用时可加肉汁调味；后者食用食用刀切开，可以涂上少许牛油（Butter）或食盐调味。*蔬菜：一小节煮过的玉蜀黍（Corn）、数颗绿色花椰菜（Broccoli）、洋葱（Onion）*蘑菰：数片小蘑菰比较高级的牛排餐的佐料会提供海鲜，例如一隻龙虾尾、或两隻炸明虾，通常称作「海陆大餐」（Surf and Turf）或者（Reef and Beef）。二者都有押韵。Surf 是冲浪代表海产、Turf是草地代表牛的饲料；Reef是礁石代表海产。牛排调味料（Condiment）有许多人食用牛排喜欢原味，不加任何调味料。但也有人喜欢家 一些调味料，冲澹牛排的血腥味。在一般大众化的牛排馆，供应瓶装有品牌的牛排酱（Steak Sauce），最有名的两个牌子是 A1 Steak Sauce 与Heinz 57 两种。非大众化的牛排馆供应由厨师自製的牛排酱汁，如蘑菇酱汁（Wild Mushroom Source）或者黑胡椒酱汁（Black Pepper Sauce）。牛排英语实用情景对话W：Good evening, my name is Lucy. I will be your waitress today. Can I get you any drinks?晚上好，我叫Lucy，今天将由我为您服务。请问您需要什么喝的吗？C：Yes. I would like an iced tea, please.我想要一杯冰红茶，谢谢。W：Here is your iced tea. Are you ready to order, or do you need a little more time? 这是您的冰红茶。请问您准备好要点餐了吗。还是您需要更多的时间考虑？C：Thank you. I'm ready to order.谢谢你。我已经准备好点餐了。W：No problem. Did you notice on our seafood special grilled tuna tonight? 不客气。您有注意到我们餐厅今晚的海鲜特餐烤金枪鱼吗？C：That sounds really good, but I think I'll have the New York steak.听起来非常不错，但是我想我还是要纽约牛排吧。W：Sure, how would you like that steak?您想要几分熟的牛排呢？C：Medium, please.五分熟，谢谢。W：Sure. The New York steak is served with mashed potatoes, a baked potato, or steak fries.好的。纽约牛排的配菜是土豆泥、烤土豆或者薯条。C：I'll take the baked potato，please.我想要烤土豆，谢谢。W：Ok. Your order will be served soon.您点的餐马上就会做好，请稍等。C：Thank you.谢谢您。

Show Summary: In this Job Insightsepisode, we are talking to Ryan Bresnahan, Customer Experience Operations analyst. Ryan is sighted and works for Aira Tech Corporation, a company that connects people who are blind or low vision to a trained professional agent who is dedicated to further enhancing their everyday experience. Ryan joined Aira nearly 4 years ago and was introduced to the Blindness Community, in which he did not know much about. Through examining his own preconceived ideas of people with disabilities, Ryan has grown a new understanding of how society can sweep aside people who are not the ‘standard’ and how his Aira experience is enhancing his perceptions and opening his eyes to the possibilities that he and his Aira team can bring about in changing attitudes and perceptions. Ryan sits at the crossroads of Aira Agents, Aira Explorers and the team of developers and evaluates the efficiencies and practices to ensure that they are delivering the best service to the consumers. Ryan talks about his journey through education, his music, teaching and how he arrived at Aira. As a sighted person working for a company that is aimed at assisting the Blindness Community, Ryan talks about how agents are getting connected with the Blindness Community and what qualities makes a good Aira Agent. And, if you know of a family member, friend or someone who you believe would make a good Aira Agent, you can find out more on the Aira web site at www.Aira.io/Our-Agents For more information about becoming an Aira Explorer you can go to www.Aira.ioand check out all the opportunities Aira offers. Contact: If you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361. To find your State Services in your State you can go to www.AFB.org and search the directory for your agency.C Thank you for listening! You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store andGoogle Play Store. Check out the Blind Abilities Communityon Facebook, the Blind Abilities Page, the Job Insights Support Groupand the Assistive Technology Community for the Blind and Visually Impaired.

Show Summary: State Services for the Blind hosted a Career Expo for high school and college students who are blind, low vision, or DeafBlind. The event took place on Saturday, April 27. Throughout the Expo students had the opportunity to: Connect with adults with a vision loss from a variety of professions and careers. Hear from college representatives about what college is like. Learn why diversity matters from an employer’s point of view. Share and learn about assistive technology Sign up for individual informational and/or mock interviews. In this interview, Jeff Thompson caught up with Bobby Binns:   Robert Binns Package Handler, Fed Ex Smart Post   Robert was walking to a college class when he lost his sight in 2012.  He fell into a depressed stage, believing that the only thing left for him was channel surfing and listening to television shows. One day he realized that he didn’t want to just sit at home for the next 40 years. He wanted to live. Because he was a new United States citizen, however, Robert had to wait for an extended time before receiving services. He ended up in a homeless shelter. All he has accomplished since then shows how high expectations and adjustment to blindness training can open many doors.  Contact: If you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361. To find your State Services in your State you can go to www.AFB.org and search the directory for your agency.C Thank you for listening! You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store andGoogle Play Store.

Thank you to anyone that has reached out. This was something Alex felt he needed to do. If you don't want to listen, that is okay. I'm sorry this had to happen. Rest in Peace, T.C. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/upstairsbasement/support

school talk show 2014.11.5 C: Hello my audience, welcome to the school talk show. I'm Carol, and here is my new partner Lynn. L: Good evening everyone. I'm Lynn. C: You know Lynn, it's really a fresh felling to cooperate with you. L: Relax. I am looking forward to see the privity we will make. C: Well, I do find a common on something. L: What? C: You see the two telephones on the table have the same color and size! L: OK, Carol. 我不否认我们用同一款iphone是我们通向默契的第一步.But do you know how many people use the same telephone as we do? C: Although I can't count the number of people accurately. I know the great influence that Apple make. Apple has topped a global ranking of the world's 50 most innovative companies for 9 consecutive years, Business Insider reported. L: 连续九年夺冠？！ C: Yeah. 美国波士顿顾问集团访问了全球1500名年营收逾1亿美元大企业的创新技术主管，评比他们心目中的优良企业，得出该排名. L: How about the other companies? C: The list is led by technology groups, with Google, Samsung, Microsoft and IBM in spots 2 to 5, respectively. They are followed by Amazon, Tesla Motors, Toyota, Facebook and Sony in positions 6 to 10.值得一提的, the Chinese phone maker Xiaomi makes it all the way to 35th. Frankly, many students use Xiaomi in our scool. L: Yeah, though Samsung and Apple dominate the smartphone business globally, the technology superpowers are being squeezed in China by aggressive local manufacturers. Statistics show that over 100m smartphones were sold in the 2nd quarter in China, accounting for over 1/3 of global sales and making China the world's largest market. C: 所以中国手机真的要挺进世界了嘛！？ L: Maybe. Now Chinese firms are increasingly eyeing lucrative foreign markets. C: Xiaomi's top-notch performance and low price 的确能赢得年轻人的青睐。 L: As for students, the low price is the most attractive point. You know thereis a popular Chinese Internet term that means underprivileged losers ,who call themselves 屌丝. C: Yep. L: Xiaomi 等一系列的国产手机的问世简直是他们的福音。 C: 说起这个，recently a report of the life of the underprivileged losers was announced. L: My god , '屌丝'生存报告都出炉了 C: According to a new report, the average monthly wage of a diao is RMB2917.7. The report on the life of diaosi, the first of its kind in China, was published by Peking University's Center for Market and Media Studies Wednesday. The paper also reports that 21.7% of diaosi work overtime, daily. L: Stop, I just wanna cry. C: Come on. You see, 72.3% of diaosi feel they are living an unhappy life, and 37.8% believe they suffer from psychological problems and haven't received proper counseling. L: How do they get rid of the pressure? C: Most of them turn to sleeping, talking about their troubles, and drinking to relieve stress. L: In my mind, drinking is always the way to solve the question of love. C: Well. As for 屌丝, Love is their another big trouble. L: Don't worry about. If I can't find my charming, I would give myself a solo wedding. C: Seriously? L: Of course. Kyoto-based company Cerca Travel has set up a "Solo Wedding" for women unwilling to get married, foreign media reported.Women can have the full wedding day experience without actually having to get hitched. C: 单身婚礼, sounds embarrassing. L: It can't be! 据悉，该服务提供2天的体验，顾客在酒店过夜，由专业人士为她们挑选婚纱，设计花束、发型和妆容以及拍婚纱照. Each of these services is handled by a professional as if it were a real wedding ceremony. C: I don't think you could have the day when you wear the wedding clothes alone. And you could never be one of the underprivileged losers L: You do? C: After all , you are the one who use Iphone! ————分割线———— L: This is all for today's show. C: Thank you for listening. L&C: Bye~