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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Resources: Lavender Phoenix: website | instagram QTViet Cafe: website | instagram Mugworts Queer Cabin: website Underpainting Collective: instagram Aetelier Collective / Suncha: instagram | spotify | show on march 30 in Newark, CA Minjoona Music instagram | spotify Transcript: Cheryl Truong (she/they): Good evening and welcome to tonight's episode of apex express. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight show is in honor of Trans Day of Visibility, but we're not just here to talk about visibility in that surface level way get sometimes framed as a political strategy. We're here to hold the fullness of trans life, the rage, the fear, the grief, and the joy, the power and the brilliance. Across the nation, a storm of hostility is being unleashed against the LGBTQ plus community.  In 2024 alone, 617 anti-trans bills were introduced. Making it the fifth consecutive record breaking year for legislation targeting trans rights. This year, that number has already climbed to 796 bills. This is horrifying. Yes. But even in the face of all of this, Our trans and queer community have never stopped living have never stopped dreaming. Have never stopped building futures from the margins.   And so I hope tonight as much as it is important to stay rooted and grounded in our political reality that is having very real, very immediate consequences on our trans and queer and gender expansive community. We also want to center trans joy because trans joy is not a distraction.  It is a strategy, a survival skill, and a source of power. So we're gathering in that spirit of resistance, remembrance, and radical joy tonight. And I'm honored to be joined by some incredible guests whose lives and work, reflect that very spirit. First we have Jean and Hải from QTViệt Cafe a creative cultural hub, dedicated to queer trans (QT Viet) liberation through ancestral practices, the arts and intergenerational connection. And we're also joined by eri oura from Lavender Phoenix, also known as LavNix, an organization that builds trans non-binary and queer API power in the bay area. Thank you all so much for being here. To start us off can you all introduce yourselves so that our listeners can connect your voices to names?  Hải Võ: Yeah, thanks Cheryl. Chào mọi người My name is Hải. And I am a member of Asian Refugees United, QTViệt Cafe Collective. And, yeah, thanks so much for having me. Jean Phạm (they/them): Hey, I'm Jean. I use they/them pronouns and I also organize with Hải at QTViệt Cafe Collective. I'm also a part of a newly formed art collective called Under Painting Collective. We're taking over an art school. We teach oil painting and charcoal drawing. Thanks for inviting us to be here, Cheryl.  eri oura (they/them): Hey, thanks Cheryl for having us. I'm eri. I am part of LavNix I am also part of Mugworts, a queer, and trans BIPOC centered cabin out in Greenville. , and I'm excited to be here. Cheryl Truong (she/they): Before we begin, I want to offer a logistical note. For our listeners if you were interested in any of the organizations that were mentioned, and it will be mentioned throughout the show such as Mugwort and Lavender Phoenix, which eri mentioned. Or QTViệt Cafe mentioned by Hải and Jean, and of course the Underpainting collective you could find their socials in the show notes on our website, kpfa.org/programs/apex-express.  Okay. Transition. I want to start with a question that is intentionally spacious. What is on your heart right now as a trans person moving through the world. Hải, do you want to start us off?  Hải Võ: Hmm. Yeah chia buồn That's the phrase that comes up for me. I just share in sadness. Usually that's a phrase to describe when someone passes in the Việt community. The way that I hear about how folks in our community are experiencing job insecurity, housing insecurity, being arrested, detained, deported. My days and my hearts are just broken. My heart has gone in many cycles of heartbreak over my whole life, as a queer person, as a trans, femme person. It isn't to say that this is anything new or that I haven't been in practice to mend my heart. This is just a incredibly heightened time. It's starting to not just hurt my heart, but also I feel it viscerally. It's much more tangible. We're talking about our lives, each other's lives. And so yeah, my heart is breaking.  I feel the frustration and the anger and the more frequent, heightened fear. But to be honest with you, our ancestors have equipped us for this moment. And I think there are reasons why, this moment exists. This is the reason why we started QTViệt Cafe, why Asian Refugees United is here because we know that we're trying to restore our wholeness, not just as trans folks, as queer folks, but just as people from a history of violence, trauma, and displacement. This isn't the first time that all those things have come around. Our ancestors have faced these maybe in different contexts and maybe in our homelands more so. And while I have that frustration and that anger, the frequency is heightened, I feel steadfast and I feel more able to mend my heart and able to hold and mend other people's hearts in this moment because we've been at this for so long. QTViệt  Cafe, we're gonna be celebrating nine years this summer. So I just got chills because I, I think I, um, I have to like, hold myself in comfort for myself right now because, I mean, when I came out, to myself in my teen year or I knew I was queer and trans from a really young age. I could see who I was, but I didn't necessarily feel like it was who I truly was. And so I grew up in a world where I was living different realities or wanting a different reality from actually how I was. I'm getting chills because when I came out, I started coming out to friends and families in my late teens and early twenties, and then ultimately to my parents when I was 23. I didn't know I would be able to live this long. I didn't know I would be able to meet other queer and trans Viet people, other queer and trans folks of color or other queer and trans people in general. Couple that with like a food system that I've been in food for so long, , for almost 15 years. And so, trying to nourish. Queer justice is connected to all other forms of justice. I've been at land and food justice work for a long time. And so, what I was seeing with what was happening to me and our queer and trans kin, the injustices happening in our community, I was seeing also that with cultural injustice in Vietnam to the Vietnamese community here, and then ultimately to the food system here in the US. So it was all connected. I am both surprised and also really proud that I'm still here and the most comfortable and thriving I am in my skin. Healing as a trans and queer person, I can only go so much. I can only heal so much on my own. The healing and the fight for liberation and freedom as queer and trans people happens so much more exponentially when done together. And so, I'm just so proud of us for all the years of connecting with each other, getting to know each other, building friendship, relationships, and fighting for the future that we want. I'll be turning in Viet age, I'll be turning 40 next year. My doctor, when I was young and had type two diabetes said that I'll only live to be 30. And so I've surpassed that. I'm excited for what magic we as queer and trans people continue to make, and what's the fights that we will continue to have and ultimately the unprecedented and insurmountable victories and wins that we'll have as a queer and trans community. 'cause we've been doing that forever and in this moment I wanna organize, I wanna help mend and heal our hearts and our minds so that we can really be able to like galvanize, organize, and create the practices and policies and futures that we actually want in the world, which we've been doing forever. I also think that it's an important time right now to be really clear about what we need, to be really clear about what we want and gather in ways that we may not have gathered before. I see joy and health as part of struggle and freedom in liberation and organizing. And so, I'll check there. eri oura (they/them): That was so beautifully said Hải. Thank you for naming the resilience and the fight that queer and trans folks have had to exude to continue to exist. For me it has also been really difficult to see and witness the struggle that our folks are experiencing right now.  It's really something to kind of trust in the state to hold our identities in a way that I don't think the state ever really knew how to. I was reminded on a group coaching call with other trans folks, that trans folks have lived in the underground for most of time. And that reminder really just made me feel we don't need validation from these entities, you know? That's never what has fulfilled our existence. It's actually our joy. It's actually our healing, our ability to not get bulldozed by waves of hate and transphobia. Queerphobia. It's really important for us to remember that and remind young folks that truth even though there has been this chunk of time, maybe like the last decade or so, where our gender identities get acknowledged by the state, but that's not where our validation comes from. We really need to not depend on these institutions. We take care of us. What I have been witnessing more is mutual aid being used as a way for our people to keep going. Honestly, I have never in my life gotten so many mutual aid requests as I have in the last few months which speaks to the heightened security and safety issues that our folks are experiencing in the queer and trans community. But also it's a sign that people are leaning into being courageous and asking for help, which is not an easy thing to do. It's not easy to ask for the help that we need. I think it's really important for us to remember that we're not alone. There are more than a billion people in this world I think I was also feeling overwhelmed by how much support folks were asking of me and I've had to say some grounded nos. And that kind of broke my heart honestly, to have to say no to a really courageous ask for support. My friend and coworker reminded me that there are so many other people in this world and we need to be able to share the the work of supporting each other to exist. Jean Phạm (they/them): Mm-hmm. Wow, that's beautiful. I'm loathed to go last. the first thing I think about is recently, one of the youth that I had formally worked with reached out and we just had a check-in and it really reminded me of the show Heartstopper, you know, these gay British kids. One of the gay kids, he is like always going to his art teacher about his various issues like, Hmm, I'm gay. Like, what do I do? And the art teacher's just trying to have lunch. And I remember I used to be Charlie, the kid, but now I'm the art teacher trying to have lunch and trying to help this kid deal with crisis. I remember years ago, the first time Trump got elected, I remember the first thing that I was thinking about was ” oh, I, I guess I'll never be able to transition or live my life the way I want or need to.” then I just kind of grieved that and made peace with it. I do wish I could speak to that version of me because I think it's pretty similar to what Hải had shared. Personally, I do feel I am in probably the best form of myself that I've ever been. I'm the wisest I've ever been. I'm doing everything that I want to. I'm learning to heal my inner child. My taste in men has improved dramatically. I learned how to say no. There's a lot of things that have just shifted that I think are net positives, but it's in total, in contrast with the world in which we live ourselves. And I think similar to what folks have shared I think for me, I've just gone more hyperlocal. Right. Given that these institutions, our federal institutions, our state institutions have failed us. It's just truly ripping the mask off. These are things we've known before. The ways in which we are being oppressed, the ways in which people spout hate. The rhetoric being used. It's not new, it's not novel. These are things we've heard over and over again. Like, if I wanted to cosplay as a hater, an alt-right hate, like, it'd be so easy, you know everything they say. There's a sense that the oppression we face is so mundane and it's so ordinary. The student had asked me oh, Jean, I'm so alone right now. What do I do as a young queer person trying to navigate the Trump of it all, and I was like, oh girl, you need to make friends. Like you really need to make friends. 'cause it's really, yeah, like when our institutions fail us, our community really holds us out. It's why I organized with the QTViệts. It's why my art friends, we created Under Painting Collective. It's why we find these pockets of the world that we really want to build and that are nourishing to us, our energy giving, that we wanna invest our time and resources in. And we try to carve out a version of the world that we wanna live in. And I think that's how we ride it out, or that's how we survive. We have to look super local. Yeah, I think that's basically how I'm doing. So I'll, I'll just check there too.  Cheryl Truong (she/they): Thank you all for sharing what's in your heart.  Hải, thank you for bringing up chia buồn, sharing sadness, and for naming our legacies of ancestral resilience. eri, thank you for reminding us that the state and institutions have no say in the validation of our identities as trans and queer people. And for lifting up mutual aid as a beautiful alternative that supports, and I loved how you put this, those courageous asks for help that the state will never be able to provide. And of course for modeling those grounded no's..  And Jean, thank you for your offerings of alt-right cosplay. And for grounding us in that strength of community. And I just want to say. A big, thank you to the art teachers in the middle of having lunch everywhere. I don't know where we would be without you truly. ‘  We are going to take a quick music break, don't go anywhere we'll be right back with more conversation in honor of Trans Day of Visibility when we return. Next up, you're listening to a track called “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright. This track features Ari Statler on bass, josh Qiyan on drums, and Ryan Fu producing. Juniper is the lead single from Minjoona's newest release, the Juniper EP, a five track p roject rooted in indie rock, 60 throwback vibes, and lyric forward storytelling. You can follow Minjoona on Instagram at @minjoonamusic or find them on Spotify to keep up with upcoming releases. We'll drop the links in our show notes. Enjoy the track and we'll be right back.  And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona.  Huge thanks to Jackson Wright and the whole crew behind that track. Before the break we talked about, what's been sitting on our hearts as queer and trans people moving through the world right now, naming both the grief and also the resilience that we carry. I wanted to stay with that thread and widen the lens a bit because we know that even in the face of violence and erasure, trans resistance is alive and ongoing. So I want to ask, where are you seeing moments of resistance in the trans community?  Whether in movement spaces, small acts of care, or day to day survival.  eri oura (they/them): I am happy to share first. Where I'm seeing resistance, movement building work and also community building. My paid work with LavNix is definitely a space where we center trans justice and do the work of developing leaders with skills to be able to hold the line of our existence. Our existence is resistance. We don't just see our own individual liberation as separate from everyone else's. We are doing the work of advocacy around budget in San Francisco with our Care Not Cops campaign. We're doing the work of lifting up our folks in our stories not just in the current moment, but also by lifting up like our QTAPI histories. QTAPI meaning queer and trans API folks. With Mugwarts, we provide a more accessible, affordable space for queer and trans BIPOC folks to heal. For me that is also part of the resistance, the fight, getting to rest because as we were checking in earlier and talking about how stress really does shorten people's lifespans and quality of life. I think knowing that there's space, there's place, there's land for us to engage with to do that work of healing. The more disconnected we are from that reality that we are connected with the land, it's making it harder for us to be able to feel connected to ourselves, to each other. For me, when I go to the river for a swim or go to the ocean for a dip, that is part of my resistance too. My joy in being in that space is so important. Why would we fight if we had nothing to look forward to? Honestly, if it all just felt so mundane and also like we're always fighting, we would just burn out. When we're burnt out, it makes it hard for us to feel the light of our ancestors, feel the light of the universe that is actually our birthright to connect with. The reality is that this world is very abundant. Scarcity is a manufactured thing that, capitalism, the state is trying to push on us as a way to oppress us, to suppress us, to keep us down. When we tap into abundance, we tap into pleasure, we tap into joy. We tap into ease in this way that allows us to stay connected to each other, to ourselves, to other beings on this planet. Being rooted in abundance is a powerful act of resistance. Jean Phạm (they/them): Yeah. Well said. I try to practice abundance, but I always feel all I know is scarcity. Great reminder. For me, trans justice is so embedded with so many larger movements like you have shared. Trans justice is disability justice. Trans justice is fighting for Palestinian liberation. Trans justice is anti-imperialist because I think ultimately, self-determination in our bodies. To be the way that we are.  I often feel spiritually as trans people, we know who we are so there's a lot of abundance there. There's a lot of wealth there. I would actually argue spiritually cis people have more to gain from trans justice than we do. I always share how trans people in pre-colonial societies were spiritual leaders, shamans, healers in the community. It was mentioned before that a lot of trans people today exist in underground economies or are just not embedded in society. There's no place for trans people in our current world whereas there used to be. I do think that is one of the unstated qualities that we're trying to bring within trans justice. I also will say in any given committee where people are doing actions or organizing or doing mutual aid, I can assure you that there is a, they them, there is a doll, there's a trans gender expansive person, otherwise trans person in those committees, you know, People are moving.  In the topic of trans visibility day, we see the ramifications of that, right? Visibility doesn't always offer us more power or safety. Institutions are realizing this. You see nonprofits, community orgs, they have to scrub every fixture of language around diversity, equity, inclusion, so that they aren't being targeted by the federal government. Visibility isn't really what trans justice is about, right? It has never really protected us. We're fighting for basic things to survive, to work to make sure this stupid gender on our form is right. To walk to the store. In some sense, the way I've lived and expressed my transness, I always feel the un visible parts or the invisibility is where I will always feel more actualized. You know when people, cis people, strangers look at me and they're like, who the hell is she? What is she like? What is that? I'm like, uh, My favorite moments are when people. Like in my old job when I had first moved to the Bay, I got this big sense that I declared to know, oh, I'm trans. And I could see the cogs turn in their head as they're trying to figure out, oh, which way are they trans? And I love that. I love living in the ambiguity. To me, that's always been more emblematic what being trans is to me is kind of just playing with expectations. Making people a bit more uncomfortable and allowing more for more experiences to live. Hải Võ: What's coming to mind, in addition to what you've all shared is, what does it mean for me to be on Turtle Island and in the diaspora? Part of transness and queerness is also understanding who we are and where we come from. In the context of just the nature of why I'm here on Turtle Island in diaspora is because the US was there in Vietnam. I think that means trans justice is actually beyond borders and actually recognizing that the history of our queer and trans people, trans justice means that we're also acknowledging the struggles and liberations of our kin  in the homeland. When I think about trans justice, I can't help but think about the fights against imperialism, colonization, the ways in which essentially trans and queer people in Vietnam have been discriminated, have been bullied, have been essentially because of colonization, imperialism, been wiped out of history. And if it wasn't for a culture that is by word of mouth and people from indigeneity that is questioning who we are and also being like, well, if we are trans and queer then we must have queer and trans ancestors. And we do. And that's been a very healing journey for me. It's been both hard but also very healing to know that queer and trans folks our age, even younger are also experiencing similar things to what we're experiencing here as queer and trans folks in the diaspora. But it also means fighting for indigenous, local, queer and trans ancestral homeland experience also. I was just, we were just hearing about how USAID was paying for essentially medication for our people over there. But now with that gone, it's like, what are people to do? And so it's not even just, not just about trans lives. The defunding of that has also created stop in removal of Agent Orange. We have fields in Vietnam that have like, after that cut, are left to continue to have Agent Orange. Now, with the early monsoon seasons of the year, that water will permeate into millions of lives downstream. And Vietnam is a whole ecosystem of wetlands and water. And so for me, I just think about trans justice as as a Viet, as a Southeast Asian, as an Asian person, as a person who has lineage somewhere, ancestry, somewhere indigeneity somewhere, it means acknowledging the deep historical reparations that colonization, imperialism and modern day capitalism in parts. The last thing I'll share for this one is I think that trans and queer justice is also ecological justice. This is very connected to what you were sharing, Jean. Ecology is essentially the study of home. There's just been too many times in my life where home has been ripped from me. I've had to leave what I thought was home. I've had to feel like I, I needed to be a different thing outside of what my home actually is in my own body and my own mind. How can we create a piece of not just mind, but also piece of body, piece of place, piece of space, piece of an unlived ecology that transness and queerness is the norm. And, I love learning about how nature is so queer and so trans. I mean me saying that and naming that is a hard thing to say. The English terms that we use is a very colonial thing, but the ways in which other animals and plants are in relationship to each other, I'm like, oh, worms having multiple genders, I'm like that. I feel like that. And so like, the worms probably have their own language about what that is. I'm not gonna like, “worms, teach me about who you are” because I'm not trying to appropriate you and I'm just like, this is this cool that nature is already in a state of abundance in itself, like queer abundance in itself. Cheryl Truong (she/they): Ooh.  Thank you all for sharing those powerful reflections on resistance. It's such a reminder that trans resilience doesn't just show up in protests, policy fights, or in singular days like Trans Visibility Day. It lives on in our relationships. And our lineages in the everyday ways we refuse erasure.  As Hải reminded us. It stretches beyond borders and into our motherland, especially as diasporic trans or queer people of color. And it shows up when we play with people's expectations. Like Jean confusing their colleagues assumptions about their gender. It's also in the worms. In our ecologies. It shows up when we fight for Palestinian liberation. When we organize with value aligned groups, like Lavender Phoenix, like QTViệt Cafe it also shows up as Eddy beautifully names in our joy. I love the importance of uplifting that swimming in the ocean is part of resistance. Because rest is resistance. Pleasure is resistance. Our very existence is resistance. So, thanks for grounding us all in that  So we've just spent time talking about how resistance shows up in our trans and queer communities. And I now want to shift us into a conversation about what sustains us, what keeps us going, what brings us back to ourselves and to each other. But before we dive in, we're going to take a quick music break.  Up next. You're going to be hearing from Suncha, an Asian-American Bay area based band dabbling in punk rock, math rock, and groove-based jamming. The group features Ryan Foo on guitar and vocals. Jackson Wright on bass and vocals. And Abhay Malik on drums. You can catch Suncha live this Sunday at Simmer Huang in Newark, California. For more information, check them out on Instagram. @ ateliercollective That is spelled. A T E L I E R collective– link in our show notes. And keep an eye out Suncha's debut album is set to drop in the summer of 2025. Enjoy the music and we'll be right back. Welcome back!  You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3. KPFB in Berkeley, and 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. Big shout out to Suncha for that last track. So much love to this Bay Area Asian American band bringing punk, math, rock and groove into our ears and hearts. You can catch them live this Sunday at Simmer Huang in Newark. More information on Instagram at @ateliercollective, as always link in our show notes.  I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight's show is in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. I'm here in conversation with Jean and Hải from QTViệt Cafe, which is a project of Asian Refugees United. And eri oura from Lavender Phoenix. Before the break we explored where trans resistance is showing up across our communities. Now I want to turn towards what sustains us, what keeps us rooted, nourished and connected as we continue dreaming and building together. So my next question: what kind of trans joy or wisdom has carried you through this past year? Jean Phạm (they/them): I wanna uplift what Hải I had shared at the very beginning. The Vietnamese concept of chia buồn. Sharing sadness. We can survive if we each just take a little piece. The community takes a small morsel of someone's burden and helps lift them up and share it. I really experienced that a couple weeks ago when my maternal grandmother passed away. And I think one of the biggest I feel tragedies is we're all just trying to survive. Purchasing power definitely creates a difference, but the reality is in our terms of just lived experience, we're just one or two paychecks from just full on destitution, you know? so we really rely on each other. When I heard that my grandma passed away, it was really hard for me because one is just going back to family is such a traumatic ordeal, and two, the flights were just logistically expensive. I just commiserated to one of my friends I had to do an overnight train down, which is maybe 10 hours. I mean, it's fine. I've done it many times before. But I think as an act of care and mutual aid, my friends organized behind my back and were able to give me enough so that I could get a flight and not really think about the logistics so much so that I could just focus on being present and also deal with the mental load of being around my family again. To me that was an expression of trans joy in terms of all these relationships I had built, really came through and I wasn't expecting it to, you know. One constant reflection I had was like, when people are grieving, am I just nice to them? Because I was like, I don't think so. Maybe, you know, it's hard to tell. But people really came through. And I think that really lifts me up and really I think about it so often. Being able to share in everyone's sadness. I'll also share within my close group of friends, I have this little scheme or theory called the Screaming Girl Theory. In a given week, only one of us can be the screaming crying girl and everyone has to support her. And then it rotates. In the scheme of things, it's like, oh God, we're all people of color who are all queer, trans or just have a touching point of just being oppressed in some way. If someone's like, oh no, I'm having such a hard time because I'm depressed, I have anxiety, I'm a queer person of color. You know, that type of rhetoric. It's hard in our space 'cause it's like me too. Everyone's going through it. So I think moments where we can share in that and rotate taking care of each other is really what has been keeping me going. And I also think it's nice to care for other people too. That's probably the final realization. People like helping, and giving people opportunities to help. I think it does induce a nice feeling and we may not always be well resourced or have the capacity to, but when we can, when we offer help to people, I think that's something people generally wanna do in service of the community. eri oura (they/them): I love this question because again, I feel like joy is so important right? In our fight for liberation, for Justice as trans folks, gender expansive folks. I mean, honestly, being with other queer and trans folks is such a joy. When we're marching in the streets together, when we're organizing doing the back end work of creating the space for each other to feel safe. And not just safe, but also seen and held. Not only is it joyful, but it's healing. When I think about trans justice, I think about healing justice as a intersection that we hold together. It's inseparable, honestly. I do think that there is a lot of grief, a lot of hurt, a lot of trauma that we have to endure in this world and sometimes we inflicted on each other. But when we can turn that around and really face each other in those hard moments. It makes such a difference in the quality of our relationships. The depth of how much we can access within ourselves. We as trans and queer folks, it doesn't matter what the state is trying to impose on us, trying to erase our existence, they have been doing that forever. They have been trying to eliminate us in this colonial context. It really is the joy that keeps us buoyant, that keeps us connected to the light of the universe that keeps us connected to each other. When other people who don't understand transness see us in our joy, they just see joy and that makes it attractive. That makes it something they wanna be a part of. The fact that we have learned to put words to who we are in the deeper ways that words have evolved into is us really just trying to fit into this context of colonialism, meaning making, all of these things that I think are powerful tools, powerful skills to have. At the root of everything is we know we are a network that supports each other to exist. And being able to put words to that is such a gift. Without the words we communicate with each other in ways we see each other in ways that I don't think people who are stuck in narrow binaries can actually see or feel or understand. For whatever reason that makes them angry. Their anger is just more fuel for us to lean into joy because it's not even about them. We can have conversations, we can try to justify our joy and our existence, but at the end of the day when the sun goes down, we are who we are, and in the light it might be easier to see how magical we are, but in the darkness, I think. We glow in a way that people who are limited in their thinking are not able to. They can't tap into that light. Hải Võ: I used to hide a lot. I used to hide who I was in order to think that I would feel safe. Hide my queerness. Hide my transness. Because there were assumed fears that my parents being conservative Catholic that I would be reprimanded and then, that happened. There was a period of that very tragic dark times. Looking back at that, I think I needed to experience that in order to fully understand how deeply organized systems can be traumatic and be deeply problematic. And also lessons in how do we actually better organize our systems to not perpetuate discrimination, violence and trauma. All that to say, I think that part of trans joy in the last year is instead of being less, getting smaller, being less than, hiding, actually, trans joy is just what you were saying, eri. Actually just being more me. Being more truthful. More honest. I've been on a healing journey with my dad the last year. We've been estranged for five years since my mom passed. I had gone to come to peace with, potentially not talking to my dad for a while. But I think that innately part of being Viet and wanting to reconnect with Vietnam is to try to connect with my dad as a portal or as a throughway to Vietnam. I took both the risk and the opportunity to reconnect with my dad with the hopes that we could heal our relationship. And just as much as I've gone through my own journey on transness and queerness, my dad has also too. There's been a lot of apologies, A lot of me unearthing and upending a lot of my own truths and just being really honest about who I am and being more comfortable and more grounded in what I want to do in my life. My dad has too. As hard as the tensions are, and even if in the moment, our elders, our people, our families might not be voting in the ways that we want them to vote or be against the policies and practices that counter who we are. I think I'm hopeful for just being more honest with myself and getting out of our comfort zones and unease in order to really surface what needs to be said. That's one. Two is, I just love meeting with our queer and trans elders. I think that's been part of our joy. Shout out to Sống Thật, the first queer Viet radio show in San Jose. They literally just were like, we're gonna take community college classes on radio and we want a show. We just wanna share that experience to dismantle a lot of the stereotypes. And so I think a lot of the, the trans joy that I'm experiencing is just we just gotta do it. We just gotta try it. I'm learning with our ancestors. Learning with our elders and just being like, we gotta try, we gotta do and yeah. I'll check there. Mm-hmm.  Cheryl Truong (she/they): And that's the end of our show. If you're. Curious about the incredible work being done at Lavender Phoenix, Asian Refugees United, QTViệt Cafe, Mugworts, and Under Painting Collective, check out the links in show notes and learn more about how these groups are building trans and queer aAPI power, culture and care in our communities. You can access the show notes at kpfa.org/programs/apex-express.  Before we close out, I want to take a moment to uplift a campaign that is very close to my heart. Pardon APSC 4. Some of you listening may already be familiar with this campaign, they've been on our show before. Pardon APSC4 is a demand to Governor Newsom to pardon the APSC 4 which are Borey “Peejay” Ai, Nghiep “Ke” Lam, Chanton Bun, and Maria Legarda. Our beloved family members, the APSC 4 are at risk of deportation. We are asking you our listeners to join us in telling the governor to pardon them now so they can remain home with their families and communities. The APSC 4 are childhood survivors of violence and trauma. They are impacted by bullying, poverty, war, and domestic violence. Like so many others, they were funneled into the criminal legal system as youth. While incarcerated, they became leaders. They completed self-help and educational programs. They mentored others and committed themselves to healing and transformation. Each one of them have earned release through California's parole process and were affirmed for release by both the board of parole hearings and Governor Newsom himself. But instead of being allowed to return home, ICE was contacted and now they face deportation simply because of where they were born. That is what's called double punishment. A racist and unjust system that targets immigrants and refugees after they've already served their time. The APSC 4 are not just individuals. They are community leaders. As part of the Asian Prisoners Support Committee, an organization, which centers formerly incarcerated leadership, Peejay, Ke, Bun, and Maria provide reentry support. They mentor at risk youth and they lead workshops on the school to prison, to deportation pipeline. They are change-makers. They are caregivers. They are parents. They are our community. And despite everything that they've given and everything that they continue to do, they live in an immigration limbo. Under the threat of deportation by a system designed to disappear them. So we are calling on Governor Newsom to stop ICE from deporting the APSC4.  We are calling on Governor Newsom to grant them pardons. To learn more and take action, please visit bit.ly/APSC4.  That is B I T dot L Y slash APSC. You can sign a petition, write a letter and help us keep our people home. Please join us in the fight to keep APSC4 home. Thank you. Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong  Cheryl Truong: Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – March 27, 2025 – Trans Day of Visibility appeared first on KPFA.

Don't miss this week's episode, featuring Neil Twa, the CEO of Voltage Holdings, LLC. As co-author of Almost Automated Income with FBA, Neil specializes in launching, operating, and acquiring e-commerce brands, particularly within the Amazon FBA space. In this conversation with Shekar and Gary, he shares his journey from almost studying music theory to uncovering his passion for e-commerce—and much more.

This week on The Retail Perch, Shekar and Gary welcome Todd Maute, who is a parter at CBX. With many years of branding expertise, Todd shares his journey from advertising to transforming private labels into high-quality, innovative brands. They discuss the evolution of private label perception, the role of retailers like Wegmans, Trader Joe's, and more.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. For this week's episode of APEX Express, we are joined by Yi Thoj and Belle Vang from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF) who will go into depth about these very tough but very real and needed conversations about abusive relationships, especially within the Hmong community, where 70% of Hmong Americans are under 24 years old.   Important Resources: Hmong Innovating Politics website California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures website Healthy vs. Unhealthy Relationships infographic How to Spot Abusive Relationships infographic Do you know someone in an abusive relationship? infographic Are you in an abusive relationship? infographic What does consent look like? infographic Transcript Cheryl: Good evening, everyone! You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl and tonight is an What is AACRE?, you might ask. Well comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality (AACRE) network, leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement, building and support for Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  For tonight's episode, we will be spotlighting the work of AACRE group Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP. Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from HIP will be in conversation with Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from the California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures, also known as CHAN-BOF.  They'll be in discussion on the importance of teen dating violence awareness, especially in the Hmong community as they are among the youngest of all ethnic groups in the United States with about 70% of Hmong Americans being under 24 years old.   I know somebody, you might want to learn more about HIP and CHAN-BOF so I'll let our speakers introduce themselves. And don't forget. All of their socials and websites will be linked in the show notes.    Belle: Hi, everyone, thank you so much for making time in your night to join us. We really appreciate it. Today we're going to be having a panel discussion in recognition of Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month. I really want to thank CHAN-BOF for collaborating with Hmong Innovating Politics. We're very excited to do this collab together. We're going to do a brief introduction. So, hi, everyone. My name is Bella Gaonoucci Vang. I'm with Hmong Innovating Politics as a Communication and Narrative Manager. If you're not one of our followers, make sure to follow us.  Hmong Innovating Politics is a grassroots organization focused on strengthening political power within Hmong communities through civic engagement. And with that being said, I'll go ahead and pull in one of our HIP members, Yi.  Yi Thoj: Hi everyone, my name is Yi and I use she, her pronouns, and I been a HIP young adult for around three to four years. I'm also working on the Bright Spots project.  Belle: And then if we can have Pana join the conversation.  Pana: Hi, everyone. I am Pana with CHAN-BOF champion stands for California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future. We were two grassroots organizations in community and outreach and this past year we have been able to provide mobile direct services to our Hmong survivors of domestic violence across the Central Valley– so from Sacramento to Fresno. Jennifer Xiong: All right. And that leaves me. Hi, everyone. My name is Jennifer Xiong. I use she/her pronouns and I work as a program specialist with CHAN-BOF and Banak, who actually serves as my supervisor. I'm really excited and happy to be here and really grateful for HIP for giving us a space time and platform to have this conversation  Belle: Thank you again CHAN-BOF for collaborating with us here at HIP. We really appreciate all the work y'all do in the community. I know y'all individually are really great folks. I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation. In your experience, I'm just asking everyone in the panel, where are some cultural norms or expectations within the Hmong community regarding relationships and dating, and that could be anything that you'd like to share from your own personal experiences. Pana: I think I can go. So I think growing up in the eighties, cultural expectations for women, Hmong women, We were expected to just cook, clean, and take care of our younger siblings and our parents. Right? So if you were dating, your relatives would just look down on us. Dating was frowned upon. I remember it was expected that if a guy is interested in you, they would have to come by your parent's house and your parents would have to approve. I remember guys come in and during our teenage years, my mom would have to be present. Right. My parents are really strict. Their limit was they could only stay two hours. And so my mom would ask fast questions. If they don't qualify, they don't meet expectations, they better be out ASAP. My parents are really, really strict.  So those were our expectations back in the 80s. We weren't really allowed to date during my younger days that's what we had to go through. Yi Thoj: I feel like a lot of the gender expectations of my generation is still very much by heteronormative and patriarchal norms and construct.  I'm the youngest of 7 girls, so all of my, 6 older sisters– they're fierce and they're also wonderful, powerful women who have helped me navigate through a lot of the contentions that I held before, interacting with romantic encounters and engagements. And so I think having that model definitely helped me navigate through my experiences as well. I feel like our parents are like, oh, if you want to engage in romantic encounters at a young age, that's welcome. But thankfully, they also didn't pressure us to do so. Jennifer Xiong: It's got me thinking about my own experiences, very little experiences, I might add. I think about some of the things my mom has said to me, which still stick around, it's kind of like embedded in my mind where she says Oh, ([Jennifer speaks in Hmong) meaning when your partner is visiting or at our home, you guys shouldn't be in your bedrooms. You should be out in the living rooms because that's really disrespectful. It, it invites negative perceptions about the person and about the relationship and it is a form of disrespect toward the, the parents and the home. I've also felt and seen from my older cousins or distant relatives who've gotten married– I think it's centered a lot around saving face. I remember hearing stories about my cousins. If they had gone out and they came home late, for example, and the parents were extremely displeased or unhappy, and they're like, no, you dishonored me and my daughter. You have to marry my daughter now because you took her home late, even if they didn't do anything salacious, so to speak. I'd hear those a lot. And, for me, those are always scary. Like, Oh my gosh, they would just do that! And you're a kid and you're growing up hearing these and actually, I think I heard it more commonly than I expected– people marrying young because of the whole consequence of arriving home late from a date or a hangout. So those are some of my experiences or what I've, I heard and witnessed. Yeah.  Belle: Thank y'all for sharing. I love hearing about your experiences. I It's really interesting how we all have different experiences, but it's still in the same realm of a very similar community, right? Very tight knit community. I echo both Jennifer and Yee's experience where my parents are a little bit more lax, but at the same time, it's like, make sure you marry someone who's a quality person. Right? I think that's really telling of how we see dating in the Hmong community. We don't date to date, right? We date to commit forever. And especially, I know all of us on this panel are women identifying and that can be a very dangerous tool, right? To just date to only marry– you're willing to put up with a lot, even if it's not really what you want for yourself, because the way the culture shapes us is if you are dating, you're only dating seriously. It's not to explore, not to be curious about yourself. And so I really appreciate the way that y'all frame it and the way that you share your experiences too. And I know we touched a little bit on this as well, but kind of gauging what it looks like to be in a healthy relationship. How would you say a healthy relationship is defined within the Hmong community? And what are qualities that you consider important? For a positive and respectful relationship within the community? Pana: So you all heard the word [Pana speaks in Hmong], right [Pana speaks in Hmong] right? [Pana speaks in Hmong] We We hear this over and over. I think even with my age, I've heard that. I'm pretty sure some of y'all have heard that to even my parents or friends or family, right? To me, what's considered positive in a relationship is really compromising and allowing you to have your own space, really meeting each other in the middle, trusting each other, having boundaries, appreciating each other, respecting, having that respect, right? Effective communication, being able to communicate with each other and having empathy. Also consent. Really having the permission of something to happen or agreement. Be able to agree with something and being committed to your relationship.  Jennifer Xiong: Yeah, I wanted to add, and also share that I think a lot of the times traditional expectations around what a healthy relationship looks like in the Hmong community generally entails being constricted and confined to your pre established roles that have been gone for generations. But I think that how we can further redefine that nowadays is to really think about how everything that Pana has already listed and shared. Right. I think it's important that those things like healthy boundaries and having balance within a relationship, I feel a lot of those things should be contextualized to the relationship. That's one, but also, I think it should be formed organically, which is difficult, and there will always be ongoing conversations about what a romantic commitment looks like, and what does that mean for the exact couple, but I think it's important to have an ongoing conversation about it, and then also it's important to understand these layers, that , If the couple is both Hmong, it's important to put that in context, and then it's also, what if it's a multiracial or multiethnic relationship? I think that's also very important. Understanding the values, and how these things can be formed organically as well. There are certain learned behaviors, beliefs, attitudes, that we pick up as we grow up and what the kind of relationships and dynamics we witnessed as we're growing up and then getting or getting involved in our own romantic relationships with people, and the things we witness and see can also really shape the way we go into relationships and the way we show up as partners.  I really don't know how to define it within the Hmong community, but I will say that I have seen when relationships and dynamics of dating are built on a foundation of patriarchy, it can, relating back to what Yi and Pana says, it can build really toxic and concerning, unhealthy relationship dynamics of power and control, and not knowing how to allow your partner to have autonomy to themselves, or knowing that it's two different people coming in together to a relationship. Power and control, when it gets mixed into this relationship, it can become really unhealthy and toxic. So I think it's also about unlearning those and realizing that certain attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs don't serve in creating a healthy relationship between a partnership or a romantic relationship. Within the Hmong community, a lot of us I've seen unlearning those behaviors and attitudes that we may have witnessed and maybe even internalized growing up. To answer the second part of the question what qualities are considered important for a positive respectful Relationship. I think it's really all that you you both named. Those are important like compromise and y'all named so many other great stuff, but then I was also just cranking up the things in my mind, but I just want to echo back what Yi and Pana said, and I'll leave it at that. Yi Thoj: What Jennifer just shared, about what we witnessed growing up sparked something in my mind as well about the media that we consumed growing up too. I watched a ton of Tyler Crohn's and Southeast Asian media growing up, and so much of the representations of love in there. It's so romanticized that abuse is okay. Non consensual engagements is okay. The media and real life relationships that are reflected and also modeled throughout our lives hold such a big factor into how we view love growing into a young adult and further. I know it definitely impacted me because I was always like, Oh, I think that's what love is, right? That's what it's showing on TV and things like that. Yeah, definitely holds weight.  Belle: Yeah, I love that you mentioned that Yi. I didn't really seriously start dating until I was in college and a lot of our generation grew up watching kdramas. Like, oh so romantic, super rich Boy is in love with super poor girl and he dictates her life and buys her everything like so romantic. And I tell my partner now that i'm married, if you ever do anything like in kdramas we are not messing around. That is not cool I don't want you to decide anything for me. I don't want you to pretend like you're in the hospital just as a prank You know boys over flowers. It's really interesting how love is framed growing up and how, just like you said, it's super romanticized. And like, you know how K dramas, you feel that excitement, like that, it's not necessarily love, right? That's just the thrill of being in something new, experiencing something different, but not necessarily love itself. And I really resonate with what you said earlier, Yi, about how it's really important to form those healthy boundaries and organically. And I really closely ties to Pana's comment about being able to create a consensual relationship and, Just like Jennifer said to like dismantling that patriarchy and foundation that we were built on.  We;re Belle: Learning those things are really hard to because initially I thought that drama was what love was supposed to be, but love is supposed to be safe and supposed to protect you, make you feel like you belong. Right? Because we like do grow up in a society that perpetuates love in honestly a violent way, I also just kind of want to know like y'all's thoughts on do you think there's enough awareness about dating violence within our communities, particularly the Hmong community? And how do you feel like it's generally perceived or even discussed amongst one another? Pana: I actually think there's not much awareness happening in the Hmong community. We really need to continue and bring more awareness. And it's awareness. Prevention. Intervention. We need to continue to do that. Some parents don't talk much to their youths about teen dating violence, what's healthy and what's not healthy, or actually like what to look for in a relationship.  In my household, I have only boys. And so we talk about safe sex, healthy boundaries, healthy relationship. What would they like to see in a relationship. I do this because, I've had experience working in the domestic violence field, sexual assault field for a long time. And plus, that's something that I never got from my parents. So my goal was, from now on, when I have my kids, these are stuff that I'm going to teach them. And so I kept my goals, you know, that was something that I told myself that I promised myself that I would do this, to continue to teach my kids healthy boundary, healthy relationship and dating violence., Most parents were taught when they were young you're going to get married and just have a good life, have a good family.  Yi Thoj: All points that are so valid and so true. There are generational gaps, between the elders and ourselves and myself. My parents are around mid 60s. As much as I think I try to bridge that gap sometimes, I think youth just don't have the language as well to fully explain to them.  There's even the conversation about like mental health and how romantic relationships are embedded in mental health and even that in itself is a difficult conversation to start. More tangible resources to learn more about communication in terms of learning the Hmong language and whatnot would definitely help with outreach and building awareness in the community. But I think a lot of recent events as well have also shown to me about where The reflection of culture and the communities as well Which I would also like to provide some sort of affirmation for any youth who's watching this that these contentions and frictions within the community– it's never a reflection of you. You know, it's always a reflection of the larger culture and what is happening. And something that we all need to advocate for and invest into to change.  Jennifer Xiong: yeah. I agree that Bottom line, there isn't enough awareness about dating violence within the Hmong community on many different fronts, like Pana mentioned, the prevention piece and the intervention piece. How does someone recognize or learn to recognize signs of I might be in a toxic, unhealthy relationship that is or can eventually lead into something that's violent? Or maybe I am in a current relationship where there is violence, but I don't know how to pick up on the signs and actually realize that, hey, I'm not in a safe place in this relationship, or in a safe relationship.  And then if your loved ones or family members or friends are recognizing it from an outside perspective, like, we lack a lot of resources and information out there for our community to engage with to learn how to intervene or also recognize it among our loved ones and the people we care about if they may be in those types of dynamics and relationships. And then when we do recognize it, how do we step in and help? What do we do? How can we help? And yeah, so bottom line, there isn't enough resources out there. I think it's still really on the, I guess the loose term, up and up. I really have a lot of faith and hope and I've seen, the work continue to expand and grow and obviously CHAN-BOF is a part of that, along with so many other organizations, statewide organizations that are trying to build more resources and information and push it out there into our communities, so that they know this information, they have access to it and can tap into it with our youth and young adults , and maybe even with our older folks or generations, cause I know you mentioned brought up a really great point too,in that , there's different gaps or different ways of understanding how to talk about dating violence within the Hmong community. Pana: Yeah, I remember my parents would tell me, [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] and I'm like I never understood that. And so growing up, getting older, I kind of understood it. And again, they said the same thing. We were talking, me and my kids were sitting in the table and we're talking about healthy relationship and stuff. What do you look for? How would the relationship look like? What's healthy? And then again, my dad says, yeah [Pana speaks in Hmong]  And my son was like, I don't understand that mom. It was just very generalized, and I had to like recorrect that. This is what he means. My definition of what my dad said was Look for a healthy relationship. Get to know the person Date them Belle: I love that example Pana because growing up everyone always told me that, and I took it at face value. You know when we speak in moments like poetry, right? but growing up I took that at face value saying like when you grow up make sure you marry someone who has Power, who has good reputation in the community, and then As I got older, my mom's like, that's never what I was telling you. Jennifer Xiong: I was just telling you, marry someone who makes you happy. And I was like, Oh, how come you didn't just say it that way? Then like you put it in a way that I was like, Oh man, I have to make sure I marry someone who's brings honor to my family, right? Like what a Mulan way of thinking. But I feel like that's always how I really perceive dating. And tying how Hmong is very much like poetry in our communities, I really like what Yi's comment earlier about how there's not really a lot of terminology in our community for even awareness about the mental health in our community. It's very much how medical terms have only really come to fruition in our community within the past like 50 years. We don't have anything regarding terms that we can use for mental health or dating violence, like the only thing we can use is sick, like that's pretty much how you say when you talk about mental health.   You just say basically, you have a sickness in your head, but there's not actual terms. When we talk about diabetes, like, [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] which literally translates to sweet blood or blood. Well, that is sweet. I hope to see, the next, I don't want to wait 50 years. I hope in the next 20 years there is verbiage that can help the community decipher and break down and bring more awareness to the violence that's being perpetrated in our communities as well. Belle: I love this conversation. I really love that. You showed examples of your son, and it really feels like how intergenerationally we think. We all think so differently, even though we have good intentions it doesn't get translated across the board. I kind of want to elaborate a little bit more when we talked about how it's really important to have consent when it comes to dating, how you really teach your sons that. Would you mind elaborating a little bit more about what consent looks like when it comes to dating, your perspective and how you see it within our communities as well. Pana: Have y'all seen the little video about drinking tea ? Sometimes you can drink the tea and you're like, I don't want to drink it no more. You know, and so you can change at any moment, right? And being able to understand okay, I This person might not want to, so I need to be able to give that respect and step away, right? And so, getting them to understand that. So if you all watched that video, the tea consent video. It's really cute, and It's really good for the youth, even for the kids. They understand it real quick. In a relationship, you should be able to give them that space and say, Okay, I get it. I'm gonna be able to understand if someone says no, then no means no. And then their body gestures are like they're pushing back, that means no. If my face is looking like, i'm shaking my head or you can see in my eyes like I don't like you stay away Right? And so being able to understand that Jennifer Xiong: I think one thing I want to add to that which is great. Like the tea consent video is super amazing at just Easily explaining under the understanding of consent, but also when someone can't consent like when they can't answer yes or no. For example, they're at a party and they've passed out drunk. They're just not conscious and awake and they can't answer yes or no, decline or accept. That also is not an invitation or permission. That is not a consent, basically. So I'm going back and forth. When a person can't answer, it's definitively no, because they're not consciously aware and awake enough to give that response. So I think that is also something I wanted to add. Yi Thoj: Yeah, I don't have much to add to this question. I've never seen the tea consent video, but putting that into perspective, that is such a great analogy and wonderful example and easy way to explain things can change right in the middle of an interaction.  Also just wanting to provide admiration to Pana as well to opening up the conversations with your sons because I think that's so important. A lot of the times younger Men or Hmong youth who are male identified. A lot of the times their influences are from other male figures in their lives who may not be the best role model. And so I'm totally leaning in towards the Hmong woman leaders in people's lives, especially Hmong youth, and just really loving that. Belle: I love that affirmation. we are right now a room of powerful women in our community itself. So I really, I want to like, double up on that echo Yi's statement as well.  Cheryl: You are currently tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA and 88.1 on KFCF. You have so far been listening to Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP, and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future (CHAN-BOF). We are going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. More on breaking the silence about teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong community after our break.  Welcome back. You were tuned into apex express on 94.1, KPFA 88.1. KFCF in Fresno. And online at KPFA. Dot org. You were just listening to your track off of the Anakbayan LB May Day mix tape called “Letter to Mom” by shining sons. Anakbayan LB is a Filipino youth and student organization based in long beach, California, working to arouse, organize and mobilize the community to address issues that impact Filipinos in the U S and in the Philippines.  Now, back to the show. We are here, with belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong. From California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF). We're talking about teen dating violence awareness and its impacts and implications in the Hmong community.  Belle: Jennifer, you talk about patriarchy and shared about how, you really tried to shape your son because you also work in this field you are definitely more eloquent work in addressing these issues. I want to dive more into what that looks like within our community and in our culture. Do you feel like there are specific cultural or community barriers that may prevent individuals, particularly Hmong individuals, from seeking help or disclosing incidents of dating violence? And what does that look like? Especially since I know CHAN-BOF does a lot of that direct work with clients. Pana: I think because we're so closely knitted, that's a barrier too, being afraid of, okay, this person might know me. One example is while growing up, I was taught men were more valuable than women. I think in our family, my parents really wanted a son and they kept on trying and trying until after they got 7 daughters, they finally got their son, right? And so we were told, you have to be patient because boys, [Jennifer speaks Hmong] and as a teenager, I was like, I guess I held no value. And so, and also keeping in mind for a long time, a lot of our culturally specific organizations were mainly ran by Hmong men. Hmong men are the main person who makes the decisions Jennifer Xiong: Some of those barriers are they don't seek help or support. The other barrier that I experienced in high school is I had a friend who was dating someone who was really abusive and verbally abusive, physically abusive. He sexually assaulted her. When she came to me. I was like, Oh, no, you need to go to your parents. The minute she told her parents, she was forced to marry him to save face. And so, after watching what had happened to my friend made me feel like if that happened to me and I went and told my parents. But these are back in my days, though, right? I would be forced to get married, like, and that time I didn't know that that was not okay. If someone raped you and forced you, that is not okay, but I wasn't aware of that. She wasn't aware of that. And so, again, we said, you know, back, awareness needs to happen. Awareness and education. That was something I remember for a long time and I felt guilty and I, I felt bad because I didn't know who to send to go for help. I referred it back to her parents and said, yeah, your parents would help you go for it and go for it. And that's, that's what happened. That's one of the other barriers. Some of our parents are not very educated in this topic, and it's a topic that we don't talk about. I do want to add, there's still strong sentiments of, victim blaming, shaming, disempowering. I've heard statements, or I will say, I was doing my research paper on DV in the Hmong community. My sources were like YouTube videos. And so, I found these videos of these women speaking out about their experiences of DV. In this particular example, she's married she was pregnant and her husband was abusing her. So much so that he was dragging her down the stairs of their apartment building. And so she mentioned her stomach was basically getting shaped. She was somehow able to escape his grasp and run to a neighbor and ask them to call law enforcement. And so law enforcement came and took away the husband because they visibly could see what, what had gone on. Her mother in law had said to her, Oh. [Jennifer speaks Hmong], meaning, oh, daughter in law, why did you call law enforcement and have them take away my son? It dawned on me how we perceived some of these dynamics and abuses when it happens in relationships. And again, the whole, why did you do that instead of are you okay? What happened to you? Why did they do that to you? Or really focusing on the wellness and safety of the person being in a violent relationship, violent abusive relationship. And to add to that, the terminology and the way we frame some of the resources out there, I remember a lot of the [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] the elders, would call DV shelters [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] right. The term, the explanation of it is like the place for runaway women or wives or mothers. But in fact, these shelters meant to house and keep individuals, women, children, who were experiencing abuse and violence in their relationship safe. But then we use negative connotations and terminology to label them because it brings a lot of shame and hesitation to seek out help. The fact that the resources that are available mainstream wise for those who are seeking help and resources because they may be in an abusive violent relationship is that there's also a lack of culturally responsive resources and services to aid and assist our specific community members when they're out trying to get the help that they need. I've witnessed and heard that a lot from the clients that I directly support and assist. Like, oh, we've gone here and then they mentioned not having a great experience, or being misunderstood, or I'm not feeling even safe or comfortable enough to talk about their experiences and get the resources and help that they need because some of the agencies really lacked the cultural understanding awareness or the intersection of that when it comes to dating violence or domestic violence in our own community. Yi Thoj: Yeah, all of this is like really great examples. Also, unfortunate. I think that from my own experience with dealing with victims around me who have undergone a lot of these violences, what I've seen is that a lot of it is them recognizing that the harm that is being done to them is wrong. Very much so. But they've also internalized and conditioned themselves to accept it as something that is normal and okay, even if a lot of the times there's this back and forth resistance of wanting to debate themselves from the situation, but then at the same time, them like always going back and this is the cycle of abuse, right, and how it works. But one note that I would also like to make is that what I've also seen is that it's really, really important that male perpetrators, especially Hmong men, it's important that there are other Hmong men who are holding them accountable, is what I found to be true. Because as much as Hmong women who are victims and other Hmong women bystanders who are wanting to advocate for these victims try to stand up for them, These perpetrators and also the culture inherently does not change if people who are in power and have that privilege don't actively help dismantle it, too. So, I think that it's important to note. There's so much power that goes into having woman led spaces and woman voices because that's so important, but I also think there should be so much more work done from the cisgendered male counterparts in our lives and in the community Belle: Thank y'all for that. Your sentiment is so powerful, yi and it's Very valid. A lot of times the folks that were leading this work are often the women in our communities Like that's just straight up facts, right? I attended a Boys and men of color conference, and one of the panels said the one time that men have these spaces together is also when women created. Right? As women, we build a lot of community for our community and at the same time, don't get the recognition of the work that is being done. So, it's really important that those who do have power, make sure that they implement it correctly and support communities that minorities within their communities that need that extra support.  The examples provided to I felt were very powerful, but also very traumatizing. When I was listening to your story, when you were talking about how you advise your friend to go to their family and they were forced into marriage. I know that we are different generations, but I feel like I definitely have met folks who are my age who were still forced to the situation. Those culture practices are so very normal and not unheard of. Like it's not completely cultural shift within one generation. And I'm sure When you witnessed that, that it was very traumatizing for you too, even though you were not the one immediately affected by it, but it also shifted the way you saw community, the way you viewed culture itself. And you even expressed you felt a lot of guilt and responsibility for that. It's really interesting that when there are those traumatizing, abusive relationships happening to those folks, and even at the third per person party that you feel that trauma in other ways as well. You mentioned how the patriarchy does affect our communities in that way. What is being done? What is being said to help heal our communities and work past these issues that are obviously very much rooted in our communities. I know we talked a little bit about the way cultural identity influences our communities. I know we specifically talked about the Hmong community too as well. I know we only have about 10 minutes left and so I kind of just want to dive into, not necessarily solutions, but what are things that we can take, what are steps that we can take to make progressive action and change in our community? So in your opinion, what role can the Hmong community play in addressing and preventing this deep imbalance? And Are there any community led solutions that you feel could be effective within our community? Yi Thoj: Yeah, I think as we've mentioned throughout the conversation, it's important to emphasize and highlight prevention work that can be done. And that is teaching the young boys and men and ongoing older Hmong men in our lives to. Because that is community, right? Folks who are directly within our circles, as well as people who we interact with. I think it's important to teach them very simple things that should already be fundamental, but unfortunately are not. Such as informed consent, and then also just normal consent. I think to echo back on what I just shared as well, having more male mentors who are very much progressive and radical in their work, and also centered in the actual tangible dismantling of the culture and harmful aspects of the system, I think is, A really big part of it. The reason why I think I'm bringing this up is because my experience with younger men who still hold a lot of these traditionalist and violent behaviors and mentalities receive a lot of their mentorship from other male mentors in their lives, and also just media consumption such as Andrew Tate and whatnot. A lot of folks in my own young adult experience very much religiously follow Andrew Tate and I had believed that we were at a point in our progressive history to where we have gone past that, but it's still very rampant in the community and it's affecting The youth, and it's affecting how they interact with and also date other Hmong women as well, assuming that this is a binary relationship.   Pana: It's time to talk about it, supporting each other, talking about what health relationship really is. And It doesn't have to just come from the school. For a long time, a lot of our parents, we depend on the school. Oh, they'll figure that out, right? it needs to come from everyone, every one of us. Even as a friend, as an individual, we all need to support in that piece like supportive organizations such as CHAN-BOF and HIP, right? Continuously talking about this, bringing the awareness. If you're feeling uncomfortable, if we're really uncomfortable talking about a certain topic, we do need to talk about that and really addressing that. Getting to understand what's healthy and what's not healthy. What are the signs of an abusive relationship? I think if we really want change, change needs to happen especially as parents and it comes from the youth too. We want a better future for our youth so I think really continue to really address this and doing a lot of prevention work because we tend to deal with a crisis and we're forgetting about the prevention part. How do we prevent this stuff. One great example that I always use is we're constantly supporting and trying to jump in and support people who are drowning, but we keep forgetting about, what's happening on the other side of that river. Something's happening and it's the prevention education piece that we need to start doing and continue to do. Cheryl: We're going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. Next up,. You're going to be listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle. More on the ways we can work towards. Teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong Comunity when we return.    Cheryl: And we're back!. You are tuned in to KPFA on 94.1, KPFA 88.1 KFCF F in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. You were just listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle, a Filipino beat rock music artist based in the bay. We're currently here with Belle and Yi from Hmong innovating politics, hip. And Jennifer and Pana from California Hmong advocates network, building our futures, cHAN-BOF as we discuss the ways we can address teen dating violence in the Hmong community.    Jennifer Xiong: I'm gonna echo, I mean, both of you brought up the same points, but in really distinctive examples of your own, and I really appreciate that. It is about really bolstering, our community up to be proactive and engaged and informed about this, and really equipping and building them up to be a part of this, that it's not oh, you know, I think it's great that obviously we do this work as current active advocates who've had previous quote, unquote, professional experience dealing with , crisis like this, or dealing with and supporting directly individuals who have gone or are going through this and that, like, everyone is more than capable of being equipped with the knowledge and being enforced with the knowledge and the ability To learn and understand this and be proactive about it in our community. It does lead a lot back to the whole prevention and intervention work and building up our youth and young adults. Cause you know, okay. So a side note is, so we did a lot of outreach and engagement work this past year, really putting it out in front of our community, in the Hmong community. And let me tell you, I was scared to do this because I was like, oh my gosh, people are going to be bringing their pitchforks and torches and, and they're going to come around and be like, who's this girl going on TV, talking about DV and providing resources and services for our community. Interestingly enough, I got like so much of the opposite reaction and responses. And I think to me, that's really heartwarming. And it gives me a lot of hope because I got so much positive affirmation and reinforcement and feedback from even our older generations in our community and young folks too, saying this is so needed. This is critical, important. I'm so glad you're out here. Or how can we get involved? Even being like, , I'm so happy that you guys are doing this work. And we really have a lot of faith because so much of our younger folks, younger generations are stepping up to do this sort of work. So I think it's really the community, a large portion of the community, from what I've experienced, really recognize how important and needed this work is to implement this and incorporate this into our community so they know and understand like, Hey, violence is not okay. Dating violence is not okay. Domestic violence is not okay. But what can we do? , what do we do about it? And I think we're at that place where people are really curious and desiring to really step up and do something about it. And again, I think what Pana and Yi mentioned.  Belle: Thank you. I love those ideas on how the Hmong community can take action to change the violence that happens in our communities, right? I love dismantling the patriarchy and empowering our youth. I think that also really comes with, I know we didn't really touch on this, but, the 18 class system. How there really needs to be more, you mentioned, women leadership. We have a lot of women leadership in our communities, but not within our 18 class system. And why is that right? And how do we convince them that we need women in those leadership roles within our communities to represent our communities. That also ties into the same thing with Jennifer, how we really want to empower youth. We should also have youth leadership because then the folks who are in those important seats are 60 plus and so disconnected with the reality that we're living in today. So, you know, I just really appreciate everything y'all brought to the table today. I know we only have a few minutes left. , I know we talked a lot about youth empowerment, how there's a lot of women leadership. Since we're focusing on teen dating violence today, what is a tip or advice that you would have liked to receive as a teenager, now being a little bit more experienced with your relationships. And if you could say it really quick. Any of the teenagers listening out here, perk your ears up– there's a lot of great advice in here, so make sure that you absorb it like a sponge. And I'll just go ahead and leave it at that.  Pana: I think with me– it's okay to not be okay, right? It's okay to not be okay, and it's really okay to talk to someone. And really reach out for help and, you know, really understand that it's okay to say no, and we are all equal. Jennifer Xiong: For me, Oh gosh, this is hard. First things first is like, I think my teen self would have loved to know dating during your teen years. It's not a big deal. Like, it's okay. Don't feel like you're missing out or that there's something wrong with you if you aren't in a relationship while you're in your teen years. Really spend that time cherishing and valuing the time you have with yourself and getting to know yourself first, so that when you do get into a relationship, you know what you want, you know, the values that you want in a relationship, the values you want to bring into a relationship, you know yourself. And also don't forget that you are you're worthy. You matter, you're important. And that, anyone who disrespects you or does not value your work in a relationship more than likely aren't worth your time and aren't worth your tears. And so I think that's what I would have wanted to know.  Yi Thoj: for mine, it's very specific. How I came to be with my current partner. It was through an intersection of events with a lot of things that we've already discussed today as well. And so I think what I would have wanted to know is that It's very difficult to try to empower and change the hearts and minds of people on the ground level. Even if you're going in head strong. please treat yourself with grace in all of that. And then lean in on your partner to help you navigate that. It's so important. I think a lot of Hmong women and Hmong girls are taught to be hyper individualistic and independent, and it's needing to teach that sometimes you can lean into your femininity. Sometimes you can lean in on support from other people. And also from your partner, it's really important. C: Thank you. I love all the self love in the room and just really great advice on being gentle with yourself and recognize that you are deserving of all the good things in life. I hope that everyone really takes that to heart and it's just friendly reminder to continue loving yourself in the process of loving others. Love is abundant. It's not scarcity mindset. We are here to share our love and that love should be shared with ourselves as well. We're going to wrap today up and I just want to say thank you so much to Yi, Pana, Jennifer for joining us and thank you so much CHAN-BOF for collaborating with HIP for dating violence awareness month. We really appreciate all your effort and all the work you do in our communities as well. If you haven't already in the audience, please make sure to follow and like HIP and CHAN-BOF so you can continue following the work that we do and support our endeavors as community members, because you are part of the change in our communities as well. Well, all so much and have a good rest of your night. Thanks everyone.  Cheryl: And that's the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Hmong innovating politics and CHAN-BOF by checking out our show notes.   Also HIP and CHAN-BOF ask work together to create these really helpful infographics on themes of teen dating violence awareness, such as what is consent? How do you know you're in an abusive relationship. How can you help someone who's in it? I found them to be really helpful. So I will also make sure to link those in the show notes as well.  Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – 01.23.25 – Hmong Teen Dating Violence Awareness appeared first on KPFA.

This episode is brought to you by www.thebikeaffair.com If you are in search of a one-stop destination that caters to all your cycling needs, our today's sponsor, The Bike Affair, is the perfect place to check out! With over 14 years of experience, The Bike Affair has established itself as a trusted source offering honest advice and exceptional service. They are offering a special treat for the listeners of this podcast. You can enjoy a 10% discount on your first order by using the code 'BIKEYVENKY' on their website.  Visit their bike store in Hyderabad or shop online by using the link www.thebikeaffair.com     In this episode I talk to Dr. Shekar Rao and Dr Kavitha Rao. Dr Shekar and Dr Kavitha are an inspiring doctor duo who cycle together. Dr. Shekar is a heart surgeon and Dr Kavitha is an eye specialist. Both of them were part of the Tour of Nilgiris this year and I sat down with them on the rest day to not only talk about their cycling journey but also about their specialities of heart health and eye health. I interviewed them one after the other as I had only two microphones. I'm sharing both the interviews together in this episode to keep them together even here. I hope you enjoy the conversations as much as I did.            0:00:00  Intro 0:04:40  How Dr Shekhar got into cycling 0:09:08  How he got to know about Tour of Nilgiris 0:11:15  Memories & changes in Tour of Nilgiris he noticed in the last 10 years   0:17:20  Heart health, what is optimal amount of exercise 0:23:00  How does one take care of heart health, moderation, regularity and graded progress 0:25:00  Screenings/tests for ensuring heart health, general screening, treadmill test, CT angiogram 0:33:10  Biggest rides he has done, SR, west to east, Manali to Leh 0:36:50  Dr Shekar's tips for working athletes, happiness of pursuit 0:41:00  Dr Kavita's intro, how she started cycling 0:44:40  Experience of completing an super randonneur(SR) in 2023 0:46:00  Experience of her first Tour of Nilgiris in 2022, what makes TFN special 0:49:30  Some of her memorable rides 0:50:30  Taking care of our eyes, myopia 0:53:10  Food for eye health, eye care for athletes 0:55:10  What keeps them going, calm 0:56:45  Tips for women on taking care during premenopausal and menopausal times 0:58:00  Closing             About the Podcast The working athlete podcast is a podcast with and for working athletes from all walks of life and various sports. The goal is to provide inspiration, training tips, mental hacks, time management and life-style advice through conversations with some of the best in sport, from athletes to coaches. If you think you can benefit from this, please consider subscribing so that you don't miss the weekly episodes in future. Who is a working athlete? Someone working fulltime/part-time, entrepreneur or anyone who has to work to make ends meet and doesn't let being busy to stop him/her from pursuing an active lifestyle is a working athlete. I consider stay at home moms/dads who pursue a sport, as working athletes because homemaking is a full-time job. If you like this, share with friends who could be interested. For the visually inclined, a video version of the podcast can be found here: YouTube Other Places you'll find the podcast on: Anchor | RSS | Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google podcasts | Pocket Casts | Radio Public | Breaker 

For the next instalment in the mini-series on “More – and Better – Financing for Nutrition”, N4D are taking it global in a discussion with Dr Meera Shekar, who was, until recently, the World Bank Global Lead for Nutrition. She is the main author of the World Bank Nutrition Investment Framework 2024, a crucial document in understanding what it's going to take to move global nutrition financing from where it is now to where we want to be in 10 years, in tackling all forms of malnutrition. Meera highlights key messages from the framework, including the US$30 billion per annum required for nutrition (significantly higher than 2017's estimate) – and that every dollar invested in nutrition brings a return of $23.N4D's directors quiz her on making the case for innovative financing, how countries can more effectively advocate for domestic funding, and how global systems such as the SUN Movement can support country-led approaches for financing. Meera's responses offer important insights into how countries and global structures can better advocate for funding nutrition. Listen now and be part of this important conversation.NOTE: Meera refers to UHC in the podcast, which stands for Universal Health CoveragePlease join the debate! Credits: Recorded edited and published by: N4D & Nutriat.coTheme tune: Saraweto, used with kind permission of Just East of Jazz© N4D Group 2025 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   In this episode of APEX Express, host Cheryl shares Part 1 of a powerful intergenerational conversation featuring the OG organizers of Chinese for Affirmative Action (CAA) and young leaders from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP). The discussion highlights the challenges and inspirations that drove CAA's founders to join the Asian American Movement of the '60s and '70s, offering valuable lessons for sustaining activism across generations. Important Links: Chinese for Affirmative Action: Website  |  Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics: Website  |  Instagram Transcript   Cheryl Truong: good evening and welcome to tonight's episode of apex express. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight is an AACRE night. Now you might be wondering what is AACRE. AACRE stands for the Asian Americans for civil rights and Equality network, which is made up of 11 grassroots, social justice groups. Together leverage the power of our network to focus on longterm movement, building and support for Asian-Americans committed to social justice. And speaking of AACRE groups. APEX express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  For tonight's show, I'm thrilled to share a really special and intimate recording from a panel discussion we hosted here at the AACRE network that bridges generations of organizing. This panel brought together the OGs– originals– who helped build chinese for Affirmative Action or CAA into the esteemed 50 year old civil rights organization it is today. Alongside young organizers from Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP, who are paving the way for Hmong Americans in Sacramento and Fresno. Both hip and CAA are vital groups within the AACRE network. The purpose of this exchange. To spark an intergenerational dialogue between seasoned CAA leaders and current hip staff and exploring how their roles in the movement have evolved over time.  Together, they delve into the strategies they've employed to sustain their impact over decades of organizing. However, this is only part one of what is and was a much longer conversation. So for tonight's episode, we'll focus on getting to know some of the CAA OGs. You'll hear them introduce themselves. Share some of the hardships they faced as pivotal organizers during the Asian-American movement of the tumultuous sixties and seventies. And reflect on what catalyze them to get involved in the movement. Through the stories we hope to uncover lessons from the past that can guide us in sustaining and evolving the fight for justice today. So stay tuned. It's going to be an inspiring and reflective journey into the heart of activism.  So I'm pleased to introduce. The panel facilitator, Miko Lee who is AACRE's director of programs. And CAA OGs Germaine Wong Henry Der Laureen Chew Stephen Owyang and Yvonne Yim-Hung Lee  Miko: Yvonne,  what was a kind of chrysalis moment for you in terms of social justice? Yvonne Yim-Hung Lee: First of all, when I got the email, I didn't know what O. G. was, so I said “Oh Geezer!” That's how I interpret it. I said “Oh, I'm there!” This is going to be a really honest and frank family gathering so thank you inviting me and I'm really excited to be here with my, peers and colleagues and more importantly to really hear from you, your experience. I am a first generation immigrant. My parents were very well to do business people in Hong Kong. They decided to immigrate to this country with three young kids. My father when he was young, he was the richest boy in his village. Overnight, people came and forced his father to give up 98 acres of their 99 acre farm. So from being the richest boy in town, in his village, to have to go to Hong Kong to live with this uncle. My mom was from a rich family in China also. Her father was one of the few merchants who came to the U.S. after the Chinese Exclusion Act, he went to New York, opened up a pastry shop, but he found his goal. He won second prize of a New York lotto. So he decided to go back to China because even though he was a merchant, he experienced a lot of discrimination. He never talked about his experience in America. But my mom was a little princess. You know, we used to call her , and her friends, the little Paris Hilton of the group, because that's what they did. They went to school as ABC's, never had to work a day in their life. But one thing, She and my father, because they were both from richest families in different villages, they were supposed to be matched up. But by the time they were at marriage age, he was already a poor kid. But my mom told the father, said, a promise is a promise.. So she married this poor guy, moved to Hong Kong, and he did quite well for himself. So we were brought up, ” money is not what should drive you in your life. You can lose it in one day. The most important thing is to have a good heart, to make sure that everything in this world, you have to make a difference. Whether it's to your family, or to others. You cannot be angry, because someone else is going to make you angry. When we came, it was a really tough time for him. You know, we lived really well in Hong Kong. Coming here to live in Chinatown back in the 60s really wasn't that pleasant. But, we made do based on the three principles. We came here for freedom. We came here for knowledge. And knowledge doesn't mean just college. So we were lucky. We never were forced to study certain fields so that we can make money because for him, it was always experience to really, really take in the nourishment for yourself, but give out whatever you have to others. So based on the guidance and that's how, that's my North Star. That's what's driven me. So I went to Davis. Yay Davis and the Cows! They're still there. What really got me to community activism was when I was 16, I was in the hospital. And They put this, at the time I thought she was elderly, but thinking back she was probably in her 30s. But when she was 16, anyway over 20 is elderly. And she could not speak English. And they could not communicate with her. And half of the hospital staff was making fun of her. And that was in, 70? 1970? It wasn't that long ago. It was still in my our lifetime. So, I was young but I acted as her translator. It was very difficult because she has women issues. And I didn't know her. And her husband was standing there. And she had to tell me her most intimate thing. And all the room of doctors, nurses and everything– they were very dismissive of her because of the fact that she did not speak their language. So because of that I felt that that's wrong. Because prior to that, even when we were living in Chinatown, I still felt I was privileged. You know, we weren't poor. We were still doing well. But after seeing that experience, it really taught me that even though we came to America for freedom, freedom is only for those who could really stand for themselves. And there are some who, if they cannot, send someone else in to fight with them. Not for them, but with them. So that's how I started my career, and I jumped from place to place. I'm not the CAA member, but I'm the honorary member of CAA because I had the privilege of working with Henry. All the meetings that we had back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s and everything with Ted and Steve on redistricting, immigration reform, census, welfare reform, everything that we today take granted. We don't even think about it. Came from here. This room. Before this room, it was another room. It was a little less, little place. We, we moved up by, by moving here in the 90s. So, thank you so much for this privilege and I look forward to our conversation. Miko: Thank you, Yvonne. And I just, OG, just so you know, does not mean OG. Does anybody want to explain what OG means? Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) Staff: Old Gangster   Miko: It's actually a hip hop terminology for gangster, but it actually means the original. Who's the original, the source of the knowledge, the source of the power. So it's, we use it with love and honor.  Yvonne Yim-Hung Lee: Intergenerational communication.  Miko: I'm sorry I did  Henry Derr: I have to say, I never liked the term O. G. when I first heard it. Because I thought it meant an old guy, Even though I'm old, I didn't want to admit that I was old. , one thing I have to say straight away is, you all are happy about this weather, I'm very unhappy about this weather, because I, even though I'm a native of San Francisco, Chinatown, at the age of seven, my family moved into Stockton. I went through all my schooling till I graduated from Franklin High School on the east side of Highway 99. Some of you may have, your high schools may have competed against Franklin High School. When we moved into Stockton for the longest time, We could never figure out why in the hell our father moved us into Stockton, because we were the only one or two Chinese family on the east side of Stockton right there on Main Street. And then over time, and actually very recently when I think about it, there was, he probably had a good reason for moving us into Stockton. Because my father was actually quite clever in terms of circumventing the discriminatory impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act. As some of you may know, a lot of Chinese men who came here to the United States after the Exclusion Act had to lie about who they were. They would claim that they were sons of U. S. citizens in order to enter the United States. Well, it turned out that my father and my mother on paper had 17 children. And in our family, there were really only just eight of us who were born from our parents and my oldest brother who was adopted. The rest were actually paper sons. So my father moved the family into Stockton because I remember very clearly when I was less than five years old, my mom said to us, children, don't say anything about the family when you go out the streets and I could never understand why don't say anything about that. Well, it turned out that. There were a lot of immigration agents prowling around Chinatown during the fifties, during the confession program. So, I think my father made the right choice to move the family into Stockton. And we always longed about coming back to San Francisco. But also looking back at it, it was actually a blessing in disguise. Because I actually grew up, as some of you may know, from Fresno, Sacramento, Visalia, Ceres, Modesto, then, not now. It was actually, I lived in a very diverse neighborhood. There were blacks, there were Mexicans and there were whites and the whites were not rich. They were like the rest of us. They were poor from Oklahoma. So probably the first social, I would consider this first social justice consciousness that I developed during the 19 50s and 60s when I was growing up. In addition to following what was going on and unfolding with the Black Civil Rights Movement in the South, was that Stockton Unified was impacted by school desegregation and there was busing. So there was a lot of talk that kids from our high school in Franklin were going to be bused to Stagg High School. And at that time, in the 50s and 60s, Stagg was all white, they were all wealthy, and we basically protested, said, we are not going to go, that we're not, we don't need those rich white folks. We're okay by ourselves. So that kind of built a consciousness in me. And I would say the other big social justice consciousness was really actually during college, when many of us protested against the war in Vietnam. We marched to the Oakland Army Induction Center in Oakland. We had a sleep in, in the old student union on the college campus. We didn't get arrested like the kids are being arrested today who are protesting the atrocities in Gaza. During my last year in college, There wasn't anything known as Asian American Studies, but there were enough black students who wanted black studies on the campus. So, we just joined in and helped protest that there was an absence of black studies on the college campus. After I graduated from college, I knew that I was going to go into Peace Corps because I was inspired by President Kennedy. And it didn't make, truth be told, it made no difference what college I was going to go to. I knew I was going to go into Peace Corps, and that's what I did, because the last year I was in college, they offered Swahili, and I said, oh, that's perfect, I'm going to enroll in Swahili, and I end up going to Kenya for two years. And after two years of service in Kenya, you know, it kind of made sense for me to say, you know, if I can go halfway around the world to do public service work, I can certainly come back to Chinatown and do community work. And that's how I end up coming back to San Francisco in 1970. And then, The rest is whatever I did.  Female speaker: The rest is history.  Female Speaker 2: The rest is documented history.  Miko: We'll get into that a little bit more. Steve, what about you? What was your first kind of experience of recognizing social justice?  Stephen Owyang: Okay, so, Both sides of my family came to the U. S. a long time ago in the 1870s from Southern China. And they were in San Francisco until the big earthquake in 1906, after which point most of the family went into the Sacramento Valley. So I was born in Sacramento. I was raised in, down the river in the Delta. I'm really excited to meet you because my father had a small business back then and we went up and down Highway 99 all the time. So, Stockton, Lodi, Modesto, Merced, Kingsburg, Fresno, Hanford, Ripon, Visalia. And my father's business was basically delivering stuff to little mom and pop grocery stores run by Chinese families, mainly from one little county in Guangdong province. There was no I 5 back then, just 99, and you know, in the summer, as you know, it gets really hot. So it was a treat for me to go along with my father because I always got free sodas at every store, so I would go out with him and you know after six or seven sodas It was like, it was a great day. My first glimmers about social justice were just growing up in the Delta and I'll give you three stories.  It's the town of Walnut Grove, and the town of Walnut Grove on Highway 160 is one of the few delta towns that are on both sides of the river. There's a bridge that connects it. And on one side of the river, it's middle class and upper middle class and wealthy white families. Our side of the river, you had the folks from the Dust Bowl days, as Henry mentioned, people from Oklahoma and Texas who came out during the Depression. You also had a small Chinatown, a small J Town, a small Filipino area, a small Mexican area. And that just reflected the social conditions of California agriculture, because each one of those communities at one time was the main source of farm workers. And in fact, my own family, because of the alien land laws, they were farmers, but they couldn't own farmland, right? And so they were sharecroppers. Just, you hear about sharecropping happening in the South, but it also happened in California. So when I was growing up, three things. On the rich side of town, the white side of town, there's a swimming pool that was only open to white families. It was a private pool. You could only go there if you were a member. You could only be a member if you were white. The only way I could go there is if a friend who's a white, from a white family, who's a member, takes you there as a guest. So that's number one. Number two. My best friend was from one of these landed white families, and we were, we were very close. We were good students in elementary school. And then one day in the seventh grade, he, he takes me aside and he says, You know, I can't hang out with you anymore because my mom says I need to have more white friends. So he just cut it off like that. And I, that's the, that's, that's the truth. That's just how it happened. I guess the other thing that affected me back then was I used to go to a little American Baptist church and we had, I guess visits to black churches. And I remember going up to Sacramento on one of these visits and one of the kids there did Martin Luther King's, I have a dream speech from memory. And, it's like amazing oration. And I thought, wow, there's something. going on here that you sort of opened up my eyes to the situation in this country.  So basically until high school, I was a country kid, you know, but then we moved out to San Francisco and it was a big culture shock, big shock. So I was in, I basically came out for high school and this was in the late 60s and I remember it was 1968 when Laureen was on strike for, uh, Ethnic Studies and the Third World Strike in SF State. My high school was literally a few blocks away. I was at Lowell High. And students from SF State were coming over and leafleting us. I started reading that stuff and that's when I really got interested in what was going on at State and later on when I was at Berkeley, you know, in Ethnic Studies. So I think my grounding came from Ethnic Studies, the anti war movement, and, you know, I would love to talk to you about the whole thing about the Vietnam War because, You know, I'm guessing maybe your parents or grandparents were involved in the secret war in Laos, a war that the U. S. wouldn't even acknowledge happened even though we were bombing Laos. So it was ethnic studies, the civil rights movement, and the anti war movement that got me involved. In Berkeley, I was involved in some of the ethnic studies stuff. Even though I'm a fourth generation Chinese American, it's always been very important to me to try to learn the language so I was in the Cantonese working group. So I helped put together the curriculum stuff that was going on in Asian American Studies. I think before Germaine was there, or maybe around the same time. Yeah, I've known these folks for literally 50 years. It's kind of scary. So, um, I was inspired by what was going on at CAA, what Laureen was doing at SF State. So I joined CAA. Biggest mistake of my life. Because I saw this little ad in East West newspaper, used to be this community newspaper, and there was literally a coupon that you would clip out. And I sent in the coupon with a 5 check. It's like the most expensive 5 I've spent in my whole life. And then I went to law school, and I was involved in the law caucus and a number of other things, but my first job out of law school was Right here at CAA. Well, not here, but up on Stockton Street. Henry was my boss. You know, I feel like I would have been less burned out had we done some of this stuff. But we didn't do any of this. I remember my first desk had literally a door on top of like cardboard boxes. That was our office back then. And in one form or another, I've been involved in CAA ever since. I've been in a couple of organizations. Other organizations, but CAA is the one that's closest to my heart, and I'll tell you why. One, I met my wife here. And number two, I feel like the great thing about CAA is it's never lost its real community roots. I feel like other organizations do great work, don't get me wrong, but I feel like CAA has always maintained a real close connection to the community, and that's why everybody. I wrote that 5 check and, and several others. So yeah, that's, that's my story.  Miko: Thanks, Steve. Laureen, what about you?  Laureen Chew: Wow, this is amazing. Listening to everybody else's story, really. I guess I'll start pretty much how, my family was. My grandfather came in 1870s. I think I found out when I went to the roots program, which is only like five years ago, that was an adventure. so my parent, my father and his whole family was born here and born during Chinese exclusion. And so obviously they lived in Chinatown and nowhere else to go, even though they, my father and especially his, younger siblings. They all spoke English. Interestingly, his first two sisters were born here too. They didn't speak a lick of English because they never went to school. So what was really interesting for me, so I was born and raised in Chinatown. Okay. I wasn't born in Chinese Hospital. I was born in Children's Hospital, which everybody thinks is odd. But that's another story. My mother is actually an immigrant. She's a first generation, but she didn't come until 1947. So what's interesting is that I'm always kind of stuck between generations, like one and a half. But having a very strong mother who spoke only Chinese and my father's side, who's mostly English speaking. But a lot of them, my cousins or whatever, they were a lot older. They did speak Chinese also. But what's really stark to me is because growing up in Chinatown, you go to school with basically majority Chinese kids, right? And so you live in this community that on the one hand is very nurturing, very safe. Very intimate in a lot of ways. All my cousins and whatever are here. I mean, to show you how large my father's side was, when my aunt, the oldest aunt had her 50th anniversary wedding anniversary, she married when she was 14 because otherwise women, people forget. I I'm probably the first generation of women that either had a choice to not get married and I was still able to eat because I made my own money. Okay, my mother's generation, no, all her friends, no, you know, so don't take that one for granted either as women. So what was interesting was the fact that because she is very strong in being Chinese and then my father's side are total assimilationists, mainly, which was really interesting because many of them who grew up during Chinese exclusion. It was horrific, but you would never, I never heard one story. His family must have had over 300 people because his sister had 13 kids. Okay, then they had all had kids, one at 10, one of her daughter in law. So it was like huge. Growing up in this area, I just never felt I was different than anyone else because you don't come in contact with anyone that's really different until I went to high school. My mother is the immigrant. She wanted to send me to a school that was not a public school that a lot of the Chinatown kids went to, which was Galileo, because she somehow felt that I would be the kind of kid that would go not the straight and narrow, but more towards the the More naughty kids, to put it mildly, she knew that. So what she did was that she sent me to a Catholic school, okay, because she, God knows, oh yeah, she went to school for two years in Hong Kong. She's another story, she didn't have any money, and so she was given to an aunt to be raised. So she married to get out of Hong Kong because At twenty, she told me the only thing she told me was at twenty seven, I was considered an old maid. And then my father, who was, didn't have, there weren't very many women here because of Chinese exclusion, and he had to marry Chinese, actually saw my mom, and my mom's a picture bride, so they didn't even know each other when they got married. But she took over. My mom is like the queen of the family and the decision maker. And my father made the money and she spent it however little she had. Okay. And going to Catholic school was one thing that she felt that would help me become a good girl, except that I had never been to a where there were white kids. And so this school Was not only Catholic, but it was also a school that was considered kind of the, the best girls, Catholic high school. It was at the end of Chinatown. And that's the only reason why she wanted me to go there because I didn't have to take the bus. I can walk home. It's, it's a French school called Notre Dame de Victoire. So I went there and I thought I would have a really good time, just like all, all the high school. My problem was, was that. I was different, but never to know that you're different until you're in high school. Because you know, you know how mean girls can be in high school. And then they're all, it's an all girls school and it's a small school. And so my mom told me very clearly, you know, it's $150 a year. We really don't have that money, but. You know, we'll scrape and do whatever we can to send you through that. I said, Oh, okay, cool. Right. Except I had no friends. I mean, I was one of three Chinese girls in the school and I never knew how different I was until I got there because I used to get home perms, you know, permanence. And all the other girls had money. They were at least middle class, if not richer, and they all went to beauty parlors. My mom cut my hair and gave me the home perms, and she was into saving money, like I said, so she always kept the perm on longer than you should have it. I swore one year it came out like I had an afro, and I was so embarrassed. I made her cut it just to make it look straighter, but it was horrible. I don't have a picture. No, first of all, pictures aren't that common back then, you know, it costs money to have film and a camera. You didn't even have a camera. Yeah. So anyway, plus another thing is that because I wasn't the smartest Chinese girl either. Okay, the other two Chinese girls did pretty well. They were smart, and they were good in sports. I was neither. And I looked like a dork. Then what would made it even worse was that my mother spoke no English. My father did, but he might as well be absent because he slept during the day and worked at night. So we have things called mother daughter fashion shows. Mother, daughter breakfast. And I saw the way those mothers were dressed and I saw the way everybody acted and my way of dealing with it was I had no mom. I never brought her to the school. Any mother, daughter thing, I didn't go to. You didn't have to. I mean, that made me even less part of the school. And it was very painful because I didn't understand why I would be treated that way. Just because I looked, but I spoke English, it didn't matter. I did look a little weird, you know, so to this, I think it influenced me a couple of ways. One, whenever I had money, clothes was going to be my big deal. It still is, you know, it's kind of psychological. And then secondly, then that was a time that I figured out like, how come I don't, I hate myself and my family versus versus hating those girls. Right. I mean, that's how I dealt with it. It was, I call it a form of self hatred and it's, it's done by schooling. It's done by not only schooling in terms of omission about who we were as a people here, but omission about racism. Omission about discrimination and just about our histories here. But I didn't have a label for it in high school. I just, I really thought there was something wrong with me and my family. And that's the greatest danger about racism, is this form of internalizing it and not having a vehicle to deal with it. And there was nothing in our schools that dealt with it, you know, and I think what I came out of there realizing was that. Oh, another thing, I had mixed messages about what was happening because Martin Luther King was already on TV, and I was trying to watch it, and then I was still in high school, and my mom would, and my cousins, American boys, don't watch the black people. They're troublemakers. You know, all they do is make trouble, you know, they don't, they should be like us. We don't complain, right? We don't make trouble. And that's how you succeed. You succeed, I think, in my, what I was raised with, with the older generation of American born who had to go through this horrific history, you know, one, you don't get a job in Chinatown. You should get a job outside of Chinatown because it means that you're working for white folks and working for white folks is better than working for your own. So self hatred doesn't just run in yourself. It kind of permeates how we feel. feel as, as a group of people, right? And so, my whole thing was that I was looking for answers as to why, why I felt the way I did. And not only that, I wasn't the only one. That's what was interesting. And I didn't realize that until I went to San Francisco state, you know, because I was told, my mom said, you want to go to college, you're going to have to You know, find your way up to court because she, you know, she spent that on my fabulous high school education, which I came up miserable and, and I would tell her I want to go to Galileo. I want to go there. She said, no, you're not going to go. I said, she goes, what is wrong with you? Because I started crying certain times and she would just say, well, you're going to school to learn, not to make friends, so forget about it. I'm giving you the best with best intentions. But then when I went to college, this one girl who grew up in South City, similar experience because South City was all white back then. So she said to me one day, she was, she's Chinese too. And she says, you know, there's a meeting there that's huge. The people are talking about all this stuff. We talk about how we were mistreated in high school and how people are blah, blah. There's a name for it. It's called racism. I was called what racism. Okay. She goes, you want to go? I said, well, who's there? She said, black people. But I said, Oh, my mom would kill me. I mean, I was really worried because my mom doesn't even know what I do at state. So I went. I think that time we had some pretty interesting people. One time there was Eldridge Cleaver, who was the head of the Black Panther Party. Um, there were people like Carlton Goodlett, who was from the Bayview Hunters Point, who had certain people from the mission. They were all kind of leaders of different communities. There was Yuri Wada, who was a Japanese American. He was very prominent in dealing with civil rights. Chinatown, I, George Woo, George Woo is an infamous person also. He was the spokesperson for gang kids in Chinatown. He was very, very, very alive and took over in terms of the whole thing about the youth problems in Chinatown. So he was not part of this group, but just hearing the stories of these other ethnic groups that were very similar, not the same, but this whole thing of like just being dissed for the way you look, the way you speak, and supposedly your values. And my whole thing is that, that thing opened my eyes to the extent that helped me to release a lot of my anger towards something I didn't know who to be angry at, right? So you have to, I felt that the San Francisco State Strike, I mean, I was all in and with a small group of Chinese that were there, including Mason, all these people. And we had to really open our eyes to working with other people that were not like us. And what was more interesting for me to see was that every single group said that if we're ever going to have classes on ethnic studies, a key part of those classes should be why we are getting an education. And why we're getting an education primarily is to serve our communities. So there is a real strong component to ethnic studies that was community based. And because of that, during my college years, I actually came back, I mean came back, I was still living in Chinatown, but I actually placed myself in the Chinatown that I knew nothing about, which is our issues, our problems. And during my time, it was mainly about youth problems. We had a gang problem. We had girls that were on drugs. We had immigrant kids that didn't speak any English and just thrown into schools nilly willy without anybody helping them. So I was lucky enough for three years or four years during college that I worked as a house parent for runaway girls. I worked trying to tutor immigrant kids, you know, and I was trying to become a teacher. So those formative years, in terms of just having my feet in different things really showed me that, you know what, I don't want next generations of people who kind of look like me to have to go through the struggle of hating myself. Because of things that are my home, that are based home base, you know, this country, this is what I feel that very strongly about the United States, that I think people are losing sight of, especially now that we're all in very ethnic silos. This country is very different in the sense of just the whole fact of different groups mixing, you know, you go to China or whatever it's still basically you. you're Chinese, even in my north, south, pink, whatever direction you are. It's still basically Chinese, but in this country you can come from different areas and different places of the world and still have a vision that ties you together. That should be a singular vision, which is a democracy at this point. And then also this very simple statement of justice. And equality for all. We sometimes forget about the all, if we're just kind of in our little silos. But I think that's the reason why, from state on, and reacquainting to my community, it was life changing. Whatever job I took after that, whether I was a teacher, a faculty, associate dean, chair of the department. My main focus was that I'm here for the students and the people, quote unquote, who are here with me that have this similar vision, that we all have a place here. And in order to, for us to really respect others, we have to respect ourselves. And that includes what we're raised with in terms of our values and also our history here. Miko: Thanks, Laureen. Germaine?  Germaine Wong: Oh. well, my experience is similar to many of yours and a little bit different. I grew up in Oakland, Chinatown, and Went to a school that was only three blocks from where I live. And the school was Mexicans, blacks, as well as Chinese. Although I would say maybe half the school, at least half the school was Chinese. And I didn't, I didn't speak any English until I went to school, so I had that experience too. And then, my father was always very upwardly mobile, wanted to live the white middle class life. And I didn't know it at the time, but, he managed to buy property in Castro Valley, Southeast of Oakland. At the time, they wouldn't sell to Chinese. So he got somebody at work to buy the property for him. And then sold it to my father. That's how we got to move there. So I started high school in Castro Valley. I was the only non white in the whole school. The janitors, the cafeteria workers, everybody was white. I was the only one in that school who was not white. But I'm a little bit more dense than all of you, so I was not aware of whatever racism there was. At that time Castro Valley was really white. And also very affluent. So most of my classmates. It's unlike in Oakland, Chinatown, these classmates, they were children of doctors and lawyers and engineers and dentists and most of the people in my high school, they, the kids either had horses or cars. At that time, Castro Valley was not the suburb it is today. Our neighbors, for example, our next door neighbors had chickens and goats So it was really different. So it was all so different from Oakland Chinatown. And then I finally experienced some racism the following year when a black family moved in and somebody really literally did burn a cross in their front lawn. Wow. Yeah. And she was in the same grade I was in, one of the daughters. And then another Chinese girl moved in. And I recognized her, but we were never friends in Oakland Chinatown. And that's where I first experienced reverse discrimination. Because I met the stereotype of an Asian student, right? So I did well in math and all the classes. Well, she was definitely a C student and the teachers treated her as if she was an F student. Teachers just expect us to excel in our classes. So that was my first, really, where it hit home for me. And then in the 50s, in Oakland, Chinatown, I experienced what Henry did during the confession program. So my mother was going through all these things. These are your aunts and uncles and these are not your aunts and uncles. And so if any white person comes and starts asking you about your family, just remember these people are not related to you because all of us had paper names. Like I'm not really a Wong. My family's really a Kwan. But in my situation, I had a great grandfather who was here legitimately. And then the next generation, when they went back, they decided we're never coming back to the United States. So they sold their papers. So then when the next generation decided to come back, they had to buy papers. So my family went through that situation. I had jobs where I lived in, during college, I, I had live in jobs, I lived with a family first when I was going to UC Berkeley, and then later on when I transferred over to San Francisco State, I worked for an older white woman, and so I, I got to see what upper white middle class families lived like, and then with this older woman that I lived in with here in San Francisco, what the rich people lived like, so that was kind a different world. And then somebody asked me to work at the Chinatown YWCA here. And I got to experience San Francisco Chinatown then. I was assigned to work in a pilot program where I worked with third grade Chinatown girls. One group were immigrant girls who lived in the SROs here. They literally are eight by eight rooms with a whole family lives in them. And the kitchen and the bathrooms are down the hall. So that was the first time I had ever seen people living like that, in such crowded digits. And the other group of girls I worked with, again, were middle class, upper middle class Chinese girls whose parents were doctors and dentists and like that. And the woman who was the executive director was a Korean American woman named Hannah Sir. And this was all when I went to college when President Kennedy was assassinated and then Lyndon Johnson became president. And so it was during this time that this Korean American woman said to me, you have to apply for this program because right now, President Lyndon Johnson only thought about blacks and Hispanics who needed help. And we really need to get Asian Americans in. So she convinced me to apply for program and some miracle happened and I got into the program. After I went to that summer training program, I came back here to San Francisco and I was assigned to work in the Bayview, Hunters Point, and Fillmore areas of San Francisco working with black gang kids. That was a new experience for me too. Then from there, then I went to grad school, then when I came back, I got assigned to working here in Chinatown, where I worked mainly with immigrant adults looking for jobs as well as the gang kids, both English speaking as well as Chinese speaking. And, from there, I met people like Ling Chi Wong and Eileen Dong. who were already working in Chinatown before I was. And that's when we got together and Ling Chi was actually the organizer, the lead person. And, we started CAA. So all of us had other jobs. We had full time jobs and so we were doing this kind of on the side. I think Ling Chi was the only one who didn't have a job. He was a graduate student. And I want to tell you, he was a graduate student in Middle Eastern ancient languages. That's what he was studying at UC Berkeley at the time. And, uh, but all the rest of us had full time jobs. We started CAA as a volunteer organization. We had no office, no staff, no money. And that's how we started. And eventually I first met Laureen, who really helped us out with one of our first major projects. Teaching English on television, remember? You and Helen, yes. You and Helen Chin really helped us out. Laureen Chew: Okay, nice to know.  Germaine Wong: And then I remember meeting, and then when Henry came to Chinatown and his Swahili was better than his Cantonese. Wow. Yes. Wow. Anyway, and I met all of these good people and CAA continued to grow. And there still is. Yep. Amazing, amazing story.  And that wraps up part one of this incredible intergenerational conversation. Between the OGs of Chinese for affirmative action. And the young organizers of mung innovating politics. Tonight. We got a glimpse into the powerful stories of CAS.  Of CA's founders.  Their hardships resilience and what drove them to commit their lives to the movement. Their reflections, remind us that the fight for justice is not just about the moments of triumph and the victories, but also about the struggles, the sacrifices. And perhaps most importantly, the. Vital importance of being grounded in our communities and our values. Be sure to join us next time for part two, where we'll dive into the dialogue between. Seasoned OJI leaders and today's. Today's youth Changemakers from Monday innovating politics. Together, they'll explore strategies, how strategies have shifted over the decades and how we can sustain our work for social justice in the longterm. As always thank you for tuning into apex express. For more about Chinese for affirmative action and mung innovating politics.  Please do check them out on their websites, which will be linked in the show notes. At apex express. At kpfa.org/apex express. Until next time. Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong  Cheryl Truong: Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – December 19, 2024 – Bridging Generations appeared first on KPFA.

Welcome to ELI (Entrepreneurship Learning Insights)! In this episode, we dive into the world of cybersecurity with Srinivas Shekar, the founder and CEO of Pantherun Technologies, a cybersecurity and data encryption innovator. Discover his entrepreneurial journey, insights into cybersecurity challenges, and how his patented solutions are safeguarding the digital world.

This week on The Retail Perch, Shekar and Gary are thrilled to chat with David Milstein, the co-founder and CEO of SellCord, a service agency dedicated to simplifying the process of selling on Walmart's marketplace. David shares his unique journey and insights into navigating Walmart's ecosystem, from his beginnings in IT to helping clients with product placement. The trio discusses his entrepreneurial path, challenges that sellers face, strategies for thriving in the competitive retail landscape, and much more!

In this week's episode, Shekar and Gary are joined by special guest Mykhailo Maksymenko, Vice President and Salesforce Practice Head at CustomerTimes Corp, a leader in CRM and digital transformation. Mykhailo shares insights into his role as a product-to-market expert, exploring topics such as crafting emotional connections with buyers, the power of synthetic data, cocktails, and much more.

Dr Meera Shekar is the Global Lead for Health, Nutrition and Population at the World Bank. Meera is the former Chair of the SUN Executive Committee, a key figure in shaping the movement, and a prominent voice in the fight for global food security. In this episode, Meera discusses global nutrition challenges and the World Bank's updated Investment Framework for Nutrition. She provides insight into the scope of malnutrition worldwide and the importance of policy interventions in managing malnutrition.   Resources and links: World Bank website Dr. Meera Shekar on X   Connect: Future Fork podcast website Paul Newnham on Instagram Paul Newnham on X Paul Newnham on LinkedIn Disruptive Consulting Solutions website SDG2 Advocacy Hub website SDG2 Advocacy Hub on X SDG2 Advocacy Hub on Facebook SDG2 Advocacy Hub on LinkedIn   This show is produced in collaboration with Wavelength Creative. Visit wavelengthcreative.com for more information.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Links: Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics Website   Transcript: Cheryl: Good evening, everyone. You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for civil rights and Equality Network– AACRE– leverages the power of its network to focus on longterm movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to the fight for social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups. APEX Express is proud to be apart of the AACRE Network.  Joining us for tonight's show from Yokuts also known as Fresno, california is my special, big hearted friend Shai Chang from Hmong Innovating Politics. Also known as HIP. Shai, do you mind introducing yourself? Who are you, who are your people, and where do you come from?  Shai Chang: Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show. My name is Shai pronouns are they and them. I'm located in Yokuts Valley, currently in Fresno, California. I'm actually working with Hmong Innovating Politics located both in Sacramento and Fresno. I'm in the Fresno. And officially, just recently in October, I got my name title changed to be the Trans and Queer Fresno Community Organizer. So I am so ecstatic to be doing the trans and queer work in the Central Valley, yeah, born and raised in Fresno, Hmong, Southeast Asian, and really, actually I was born in a house. The rest of my siblings were born in the hospital. We were actually, the reason why was because we were trying to go to the hospital and my dad was like, Oh, wait for me, wait for me, wait for me, and couldn't wait any longer. Cheryl: And then you just popped out. You couldn't wait any longer. Did your dad make it in time? Shai Chang: I think my dad made it in time, but only in time for us to come out.  Cheryl: I didn't know that about you, Shai, that you were a home birth. How many siblings do you have?  Shai Chang: I have five other siblings. We were all born one year apart. Honestly, like, growing up, I really loved the idea of, Oh, we're all born one year apart. It's so nice. My siblings were so close. And now I'm looking back, Oh my gosh, my mom. Oh  Cheryl: my gosh. are any of your siblings also trans or queer?  Shai Chang: No, um, one of them is queer, but, the rest of my family is, actually very progressive and a great ally to me. So I've been very privileged and blessed.  Cheryl: Do you think that's a common Hmong queer experience to have supportive and progressive parents?  Shai Chang: so I'm not actually out to my parents or my grandparents or my uncles or some of my aunts. I am out to my siblings and so I think it's very interesting and I'm still grappling along with that as well. I think there is internal work to be done. It's that both I think it's, this is a reality of some things. It's that outside of the community, I'm queer and trans and at home, I'm very much having to play a role. My dad is a shaman and so he does do, they do come from a lot more like traditional values and conservative values. And at the same time, they are progressive on things. I think that they understand racial issues. But not gender issues. So you can wear, for example, I would say like my aunt, she it's like progressive and the most conservative ways, so it's like. Oh yeah, I'm totally okay that you're gay, Shai, but if my kids wore earrings, that's too feminine.   Cheryl: Thanks for sharing that shy. It's sounds like you've had to navigate a lot of different spaces, also expectations.  I'm curious, what was it like growing up queer in Fresno?  Shai Chang: I think that it has really shaped me because I feel like I came into my queerness and my transness so late. I feel like I came into being who and knowing who I am or what I am so late into my life. It wasn't until I was much more exposed into the organizing work over in the Bay Area. And so obviously big props to Lavender Phoenix.  Cheryl: Love them. Shout out Lavender Phoenix.  Shai Chang: And just really seeing so many of the organizers really live and their truth and who they are. And I. And having to also trying to figure out what that means for myself as well. Also knowing that How many other like Hmong trans queer folks are also might be going through the same thing as well. And so there is a definitely a strong sense of unwelcome this or not even unwelcome this, but not the intentional welcome. Right. When we think of radical welcome. From Lavender Phoenix, there is a lack of radical welcomeness within our Hmong community, and so, especially for trans and queer folks, and it wasn't until just this year that there's a in the Hmong community, there's 18 clans, or our last names, and there's an organization over in the Midwest, over in Minnesota, Minneapolis that just then wrote a letter in Hmong talking about the recognition that, Hey we recognize that we have not been intentional in inviting like trans and queer people into our community. So like one, it was super validating and two, that's just like the bare minimum. Okay. They recognize it, but what did they do? Right. Nothing. And so, or, you know, for me I didn't really see much, but also that's so different. Like that, that lived experience over in Minnesota is so different from the lived experiences in California for our Hmong community. And yeah.  Cheryl: Yeah Shine you're bringing up so many things. You're so absolutely right. There is such a different between. Merely tolerating transness and queerness, such as you know, in the story you shared earlier but your aunt and her kid wearing earrings. And then also with the vagueness and The lack of action and accountability in the . Minneapolis letter. Versus the radical, welcoming. Of trans and queer folk, such as, is done in Lavender Phoenix, which. For folks who don't know is also an AACRE group. that organizes is around building trans and queer AAPI power in the bay area. And I also love. That you called in that, of course there are differences in the lived experiences for the Hmong community in Minneapolis. Versus California. Because I also think that that's super true to in the in lived experiences for trans and queer as in the bay, Area. You know, such as, what Lavender Phoenix does. Versus the transness and queerness that is experienced in the central valley, which is of course where a majority of Hmong Americans in California live. Which is also actually a great segue to talk about the amazing work that HIP does and the work that you lead with QHIP, which is for listeners who don't know. Is short for Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride. Do you mind telling us what QHIP is and what led to its fruition. Shai Chang: Yes, thank you so much. Back in 2018, I actually was, that's when Hmong Innovating Politics actually branched out to Fresno. And that's when I was like, Oh, I've heard about you all, like in the organizing work over in Sacramento. I will love to get involved. And literally that weekend that they came in Mytao one of the original organizers for, to, to branch out into Fresno, she actually messaged me, it's Hey, I have this application that's due on Sunday. It's Seeding Change. Can you apply for it? I was like, Yeah, sure, of course. It's Friday. Also, how did you get my number? Ha ha ha ha ha., and so, like, it was just a great She actually got my number through, like, different connections here and there, and then that's how she got my number, and then she contacted me, and she talked Yeah, and so, that's how I got involved with HIP, was through Seeding Change. I've already been trying to organize in the Fresno community around , Hmong and trans and queer issues, and, , Leadership has always, always been a very big issue. Just finding other trans and queer leaders, and I was very lucky, it was such a very strange time that one of my were One of my friends, um, friends now, but then, uh, actually it's like this other random person came into Fresno and was like, Hey, I just got back from, Texas, and I am in Fresno. Like, I was born and raised in Fresno, I moved away, came back, and wanted to organize around trans and queer issues. I was like, no way!  So, on top of that, Mytao, later in the summer, was able to organize to get us, funding, and so we got 3, 000 just to organize for trans and queer issues, and in the next two to three months, um, we got 20 people to start showing up. We met every single week. Wow! And then on top of that, we were hanging out for another two to three hours. So I honestly, we all use obviously like our own personal funding, our own like, like vehicles, transportation, pick it up folks just so that we can meet and really being housed in like HIP's office. And. To really honor HIP, we were also trying to think of our name for our own space because I think it came from actually like being, and I, I really also want to share that like quip, the reason I'm like, why QHIP? Why QHIP? Why not join any of the, like the trans and queer spaces? Let me be very clear about why not join any of the other gay spaces in Fresno? So, and,, Fresno historically has been a very white cis space. male gay space. And so that's really also we want to highlight that. There is like also trans spaces that just came more recently as well, Trans-E-Motion. But before that , we were actually then like, okay, let's go and be a part of these organizing spaces as like our little group, right? And we show up to these spaces and they're asking, what's your name? , who are you all? What's your name? Are you gay little Asian boys?  And so I share the stories. As to, like, how much it speaks volume to the microaggressions, the internal racism that exists, and as well as how much, like, work is done. Like, why we need this space so much, right? When we show up to these spaces, we are not feeling that sense of belonging, that radical welcoming. And so, Yeah, we just started organizing from there and then obviously we were being housed and so HIP was like, okay So do you want to spin off and do your own organizations? Who are you and What's your five year plan and the whole time we're like “What?!” I've never thought about a five year plan, you know, and got, yeah, that's her name. And also Katie Moua, who's working with us as our , program director, you know. And so, we finally actually just this year became a program under HIP. So originally we were like a support group. We were just holding space and we just hit our five year last year and after seeing so much transition and leadership,, we just know that for, sustainability is that we need to make sure that we're holding it somewhere and so HIP was able to hold that program space for us. And so that's just where and where we're at right now.  Cheryl: Thank you so much for sharing the origin storyof QHIP. It's really inspiring to meto hear how organizations come to be? And. All of the community effort and community members that came together, recognizing a need and supported each other through it all. It really shows the power of mutual care and collective organizing. We're going to take a quick music break, but there'll be more on the incredible organizing workbeing done by QHIP for trans and queer Hmong folk in the central valley when we return. Up next. We'll be listening to “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.  Here's “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera.  And we're back. You're listening to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and also streaming online at kpfa.org. That last track was “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. We're here with Shai chang lead organizer of Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride (QHIP). A program by Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as hip. So far Shai has shared some powerful, personal stories about growing up queer and trans in a more conservative central valley.  And how essential programs like QHIP are for helping trans and queer Hmong Americans. I thrive in such places which are often hard to find. We've learned about how QHIP. Came to be and how it was created by and for the community through effort and also through. I would say great courage. So Shai. Can you tell us a little bit more about the programming that QHIP does? Shai Chang: Thank you so much for asking. A lot of the work that we do is rooted in healing justice. when we first came together, we just knew that. There's so much trauma that we had. Um, so I, I say this because one, we were like, okay, like, should we open it up to, like, other Asian Pacific Islanders? Should we do like a Southeast Asian, queer, trans work? And then, I was like, let's look at the space we're in currently. Who is in here with us? Like, how can we say that we're a lot of the time, it's, I think it's frustrating that it's always like, API, API, right? And there's no other Pacific Islanders in this space. Um, so it's like to say that Hmong people are here and it's okay for us to focus on Hmong communities. On top of that, we have so much particular trauma that if we then invite other folks into the space and they have their own intersectional trauma, how can we also hold space for them when we're also then trying to figure out our own, like. issues. And so, uh, not realizing that these were like rooted in healing justice. We just knew that we just needed space for ourselves and to heal and, and heal in different ways. And so in one of those ways, like, how can we heal and also have fun? And one of the organizers around that has been One of the events we did was Sports Day. Um, I was like, okay, how does Sports Day relate to healing, you know? And it's like, of course it does, right? We know that many times, like, trans and queer folks are not allowed to have fun in sports, are not allowed to be queer enough, like, they're too queer, um, that they're not allowed to be Performing to mask, to fan, and like in queer, like in sports. And so, we know and we recognize that it's so important for us to actually be able to live in these spaces as well. For us to reclaim these opportunities for ourselves. And so, um, It has shown up in many different ways. And so every single, almost every year we, we do something like that together. And so, uh, we did one in Sacramento and they're all like, this is where the BIPOC people have been at. Uh, because there is like a queer and like sports, like, uh, outing that is over there, but it's always like predominantly white, and so when all of the people of color started showing up, I'm like, oh! Uh, and so it's so funny. It's so funny. Like, that we get to actually practice community, care, and love, and intentionality, and really finding space of joy for one another, especially If you want to like play volleyball, hit the ball back into a twerk, you know, like we've seen our Southeast Asian Filipinos, like Cheryl: I love that image of just like this pack of like Hmong queer and trans folk just like rolling up, you know, I just love that image so, so much. And I love that point too. Like what does sports have to do with queer being queer and trans? And it has so much. It starts in those like little things, those little sports outings, being able to hit a volleyball and go into a twerk. That's healing justice. Wow. That is so incredible. You mentioned that when QHIP first started, it was around 20 people. What would you say like the age demographic is? of the people in QHIP.  Shai Chang: So when we first started, no one was over 30.  We had folks from high school, and we had folks, um, in like, uh, like over 18, um, and, uh, no one was over 30. Yeah, so we had a very young group and we can just see how like hip has also adapted into that as well It's not like we have always been really young organizers and so When you were talking about the budding and the seedings like that's what we do We train and we right now we are wanting to bring up and train other trans and queer leaders that really also want to be a part of the space too because One, like, to be very honest and transparent, if I'm gone, Quint is gone. That's what I mean by the sustainability of leadership. Like, I'm the one who's holding this work right now. And because we have just recently expanded over to Sacramento to have Christine also hold that space, like, oh my god, Once I'm gone, it's gone, right? And so  so we actually Went um, we had a booth at the Hmong New Year's. It was a queer and trans booth It's super queer super trans and we were anticipating lots of pushback And so folks we actually just asked like our friends who I mean like I already didn't have like queer friends already And so we asked our friends to just come and be in the booth with us, come organize with us, and then words kind of spread out around that, like, oh, there's this thing, they're doing this thing, and so folks came and volunteered. And I need to share this story because, like, we were all anticipating people to come to our booth and push back. Um, we've, there's like Christian monk folks there have come and done push back in the past, but there has never been like a trans and queer booth. Like a Hmong trans queer booth and so folks, we have like a photo booth in the back and the way that you can take brief pictures is that you just signed the board that I support Hmong LBTQ and really there was so much overwhelming love and support for us that many of the times like our own like folks, our own trans and queer folks, they had to take a pause and like, yeah, Actually, I need to take a break, right? I think this overwhelming sense of love and care from community and so this is where it grew and this is where and how we grew and also knowing at the same time that like there's so much multiple layers in this conversation, I'm sorry. Um, so it's like One, there is so many overwhelming support, yes, and that's how many people came and started to know about us and started organizing along with us. And the other piece and part of it too is that right now and where I'm at now is that I'm trying to organize for trans and queer spaces for Hmong folks, and I'm really trying to invite community to come and be part of us, and at the same time, not seeing folks show up. Um, and so like when we had our organizing program, our 7, 8, 9 month long organizing program, first time this year, opening it up for like, community to apply and be part of, like, 4 folks applied, and they were all allies, um, and so I, yeah, I didn't want to take that away from them as well, and so these are the people that applied, and these are the people that like, I will be working with, right? And so when we went to the Pride Parade, and other, like, trans and queer Hmong folks showed up, and they're like, Oh, is this an organizing program? And I was like, Yeah, it is! And they're like, Oh, I should've applied! And I was like, Yeah, you should've! And so, We, Christina and I, we really had to sit in with that, and it's like, why is that? Why is that, like, a really challenging place? Um, and we really lean in back into that, like, in the Hmong community, there is such a lack of welcomeness. There is such a lack of belongingness, like, many times in the Fresno, and this is just, like, trans queer people in general, in the Central Valley, is that For you to be trans and queer, it's for you to move away from home. Um, go to the Bay Area, go to L. A. And so, um, in our name, Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride, Intersectional from Kimberly Crenshaw, is really where we are highlighting that you can be queer and you can be Hmong. And Many of the times it's so hard for us to show up in like our own community because there's like so much layers of like anti blackness, like patriarchy, uh, lots of gender justice that needs to be done, transformative and healing justice that needs to be done and I appreciate Lambda Phoenix for being so bold and I'm also sitting over here. It's like how can I be bold and I think about, like, for us, like, we were already ostracized by our own community, some, many of the times, like, unwelcomed, and for us to then fight to be in our own community, it's such a big fight already, and then, like, folks would then welcome us, and then, okay, let's talk about police brutality. Right? How much of that would then also, um, be welcomed as well? And so really to be trans and queer is for us to be anti imperialist, anti capitalist, you know, anti, um, anti racism, right? And so Yeah, so like that's that's just so the realm that we're like like Hmong and trans queer folks are living in and so our next steps for our quip is for really us to build our sense of belonging. We're going to be launching our campaign Love is Love or Luya Lu um to really highlight um that that piece of belongingness within our Hmong and transqueer community that we do need to find a sense of belonging, that we don't need to be part of like our Hmong community to really find community, that we can have our own community and still be part Hmong and still be transqueer. Cheryl: I love that so much,, the I in quip intersectional is you can be queer and mom. And I think that is so brilliant. And I wonder the whole that also that piece you shared about how a lot of, you know, queer and trans, trans People of the Central Valley leave to go to larger cities, more liberal quote unquote spaces. I wonder, too, if that's part of the reason why there was low signups for your organizing program, because so much of the trans and queer among folk that are in quip are all really young and are still reliant on living in the same household as their family. Shai Chang: Yeah, thank you so much for highlighting that. Yes, that is so, so, so true. Um, I also really want to highlight that it's so hard on our femme and women folk, our transqueer femme and women folk, um, because in our experiences as a young person for them, they were the babysitters. Um, they were the caregiver and the caretaker of their family. And so many of the times it's that, you know, They could not join us in these particular spaces because they constantly had to ask for permission from their family just to be with us. Um, so, can I go? I was like, oh no, I need you to watch the house, or watch the babies, watch, watch your siblings. Um, I need you to take care of this, or X, Y, and Z, and so. It's a lot of, like, it's a lot of the patriarchy coming up in this multi layer, like, this multi layer level of oppression, multi layer level of, like, Experiences that Hmong and transqueer, , women and femme folks go through. And so really wanting to highlight that. Cheryl: So, of course, like I'm hearing the family dynamics, the patriarchy. What do you think are the other struggles that queer and trans Hmong youth currently face in Central California? Shai Chang: you know, the Central Valley is very poor., and so, lot of trans folks actually have a hard time in transition. There's only like one doctor that comes once in a long while that like really does affirmative care. And so we're trying to grow our affirmative care resource and our doctors list. And so now I think we've probably grown I think maybe like two or three in the Citra Valley. And I mean Central Valley from like Stockton to like Bakersfield, like there is no, like, it's hard to find affirmative care. And many of the times folks are, if they're wanting like gender affirming care, they have to go into the bigger cities. And so there has been in the past transportation. So obviously when we're doing like, it's, you know, Affirmative care surgery. It's a very, very big thing. And so transportation on top of like housing for rest is a very big thing as well. And so there was funding that folks have been organized to do transportation as well as housing to take care of them. What does what does aftercare look like? And so I think there's like those kind of layers like racism, Obviously, transphobia, , homophobia, and I think it just speaks to a lot, you know, about like the, there's like a lot of, and there is gender based violence in our community, quite a bit, right? When you think about patriarchy, of course, it's attached. I think in the media of the times, community needs to also see that patriarchy also impacts, patriarchy impacts all genders. Right. , it forces more, males and men to be more masculine, really pushing them away from what it means for them to actually have, like, quote unquote feelings, or being feminine, or, um, there's a lot of big drinking problem in our Hmong community as well, and so, there's lots of, like, over drinking and binge drinking, and so, yeah, there's also deeply rooted issues that are also, uh, showing up in the community as well. Cheryl: Wow, there's a lot. And it sounds like there's so much infrastructure and resources that are still, that still need to be developed. Central California is still developing their resources for trans and queer, especially trans and queer Hmong folk. My question then, Shai, because you, because I do agree, like if the moment you leave, QHIP is gone. How are you dealing? Because this is a lot of work. How do you deal with all of this responsibility? Shai Chang: I lean into hip. I have to. Um, to be very honest, I had a really hard time. I think last year, um, we had a really hard time when I was just like, I feel so alone. I went to this like conference. This was called creating change. It's their national, like LBGTQ conference and over in San Francisco and like February, July and went to that conference and then came back home. I was like the only trans, you know, I was the only person on the train back home. Right? And so it feels so isolating. It feels so alone sometimes. And I brought this up to HIP and we all just cried and we're like, This is not okay, right? And so that's when we started to see what programming for quip actually looks like and recognizing that something needs to happen. We need to build more. And so I also really want to highlight that it takes time and it takes It takes time and commitment to want to build with people. Um, and we were able to really build space for our trans and queer community here because we were so committed to wanting to build something here. Um, and so it is very alone, like, and also it's really to recognize that we are not alone. Um, I think Lambda Phoenix has done such a great job in really being able to model what that means and what that looks like. And literally asking for help. Um, it's not to say that I'm not good at delegating. It's not to say I'm not good at delegating. I'm just really bad at breaking down, like, these roles and responsibilities for me to then Invite other folks in to also to support me to help, you know, to make the movement go and grow together. And we're so used to doing this work alone. I'm so used to doing this work alone that I feel like I have to do everything together. I have to be the creative artist, the social media campaign manager. The comms manager, coalition building, I, I feel like I have to be then like the, the organizer, the program manager, the development, the HR, um, the supervisor, and, and at the same time as a, you know, not as a young person anymore, but like young enough still 29, is that I'm still also learning what organizing is and what organizing means. And so, um, it means all of us. It needs all of us. Cheryl: That's actually such an important dimension too, because as , you're all developing this in the works, you're also learning along the way. , I guess maybe to end our conversation. I want to know, because you bring up the welcomeness, the radical welcomeness you've learned from Lavender Phoenix and how Revolutionary that has been in your praxis of trans and queer organizing for Hmong folk. What does radical welcoming look like for you for quip moving forward in the next couple of years? What would you want it to look like? Shai Chang: What it will look like for quip is that Um, next year we're going to be launching a campaign and then continuing the Love is Love or Lu is Lu Ya Lu campaign and really highlighting the sense of belonging that needs to be built up in our Hmong community. Um, as much as we're fighting for trans justice, racial justice, and gender justice, and trans queer justice, and like, those are like the big words, and all of those things, and what does that mean? And it starts at the small, it starts at the small, like, if we don't even feel that sense of belonging within our own community, if we don't even feel that sense of belonging within our own selves, small like the sports day, it's not going to actually build in that piece of justice in the long term. And so it's so important that, um, we build in that radical welcomeness through all layers. And it can look very different. It doesn't have to be like, Oh, welcome. Verbatim welcome. This means that we are doing it every single time at every single point, at every single way. It looks like having dinners. Um, it looks like having fun. It looks like karaoke. It looks like listening to each other's story, passion mic, open mic nights, poetry slams, and sports days, and Really going out to vote together. It really looks and shines in all the different ways and really being in coalition with one another is how we're going to get there and build there. And so, yeah,  Cheryl: that was the perfect answer, Adrian Murray Brown writes about this all the time. Small is all. Radical welcoming in all areas of this work. I think that's just so beautiful.  We are actually going to take another music break. But learn how to plug into quips work when we get back. So don't go anywhere.  Up next is taking names by Rocky Ibarra. And we're back. You are tuned in to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3. KPMB in Berkeley and online@kpfa.work. You were just listening to you taking names by Rocky Berra. Before we close off the show shy. Do you mind letting our listeners know how they can stay in touch with Quip and learn about all of your upcoming programming? Shai Chang: Yeah, I would say follow us on our social media, Facebook and Instagram. That's a great place to begin, um, and continue to share and highlight us. , we are trying to post more. And you can follow us at qhip. ca at qhip. ca or quip. california. ca. Yeah, um, I think that's a great place to begin and then you all always can message me there. Um, yes.  Cheryl: Thank you shy. All of those links to equip socials we'll be linked in our show notes. And so before we close off for the night, do you have any last words, you'd like to share to any trans. Queer, mung folk who might be listening right now.  Shai Chang: Yes. Um, lean into your leadership. Lean into it. I know that you're so scared of, like, wanting to be in a leader because it feels like there's so much responsibility that comes with it. And know that you are not alone. In it. You are not alone in this leadership. You are never alone. There's so much people who have paved the way and so much people who are still here with us today. And so, I am here and we can learn and lean into each other and really actually create spaces of love. Like, how do we lean into love and not into our leadership? Right? And so, you don't have to feel like you are leaning into your leadership alone. But leaning into community and leaning into love. Cheryl: Thanks, everyone. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – October 24, 2024 – Trans & Queer Hmong Rise: Organizing in Central California appeared first on KPFA.

Bio Shekar Narasimhan is the Managing Partner at Beekman Advisors which provides strategic advisory services to companies and investors involved in real estate, mortgage finance, affordable housing and related sectors.  Shekar is a Co-Founder for the Remergent Communities Fund, an... Continue reading

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Resources QTViet Cafe website Instagram Facebook Register for QTViet Cafe's 8 Year Anniversary Bilingual Letter for a Free Palestine (English/Viet) Transcript Cheryl Truong: Good evening! You were currently tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host Cheryl Truong, and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE, you might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network — AACRE — leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX Express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network. Tonight. We have some special guests from a collective near and dear to my heart. Hải Võ and Jean Jean Phạm from QTViệt Cafe. QTViệt Cafe is a project of Asian refugees United, which is one of the 11 Asian American social justice groups within the AACRE network. Hải, do you want to kick us off by introducing yourself? And QTViệt Cafe?  Hai Vo: Co chào mọi người! Hi everyone. Thanks Cheryl for inviting QTViệt Cafe to be here today. My name is Hải. I go by my name. It means ocean in Việt. And just so excited to be here today. , I'm part of the Queer Trans Việt Cafe Collective. We are a cultural organizing hub by and for queer and trans Việt folks for our freedom and liberation. And we do that through the creative arts, ancestral life ways, and, connecting intergenerationally with our parents, our elders, families, and friends. We'll be celebrating eight years, and I've been a part of it in the beginning when Mơ asked me to help advise and start the project. What started out as an idea to essentially really bring us together and meet other queer and trans Việt people, and with a little bit of SEED funding from the Impact Hub and Youth Impact Hub Oakland project and fellowship, we've been able to not just grow our numbers, but also really more importantly, My healing and then our collective healing.  Just so grateful to be here. And I'm just so excited that Jean, you can join us. Jean is just amazing all around, such a thoughtful intuitive person, designer, friend, just all around beauty of an artist. Thank you for introducing me to the world of visual art and just so many things that you've just been exploring over the years. So, yeah, I'll pass it over.  Jean Pham: Oh my god, thanks Hải. That's honestly too generous. And thanks for inviting us here, Cheryl. That's really awesome that we have this opportunity to share about QTViệt Cafe and our work. My name is Jean. I use they/ them pronouns. I've been a part of of QTViệt Cafe since 2018 when I first moved here to the Bay Area and honestly was looking for queer and trans Việt Namese community, which although I grew up in Orange County, I have always found it very difficult to relate and find other QTViets I've been a part of the various programming and events that QTViệt has put on, including our Healers and Artists cohort. I think my role in QTViệt Cafe is honestly to just , go with the flow. I try to make myself available as much as I can. I try to help with designing things. A big cornerstone of QTViệt Cafe is repairing our connection with our ancestral and cultural heritage in a way that still celebrates and maintains our queerness and transness at the forefront. A lot of this I found has been through the culinary arts, which to me was a big point of growth. Literally using taste and smell to connect us with memory and feeling and healing. QTViệt Cafe is honestly such a special place here. It started in Oakland here in the East Bay, but we have members all across the Bay Area and even outwards in different states and locales. So it's been a pretty amazing journey to see how vast the QTViet Cafe network has expanded and definitely excited to talk about it. So yeah, I'll just check there. Again, thanks for having us.  Cheryl Truong: Thanks so much for sharing that, and especially the culinary aspect of QTV, I think is really what makes y'all so, so special. And honing that ancestral connection through food, too, is something I noticed that you all do , extremely well. Hai brings up that we're celebrating eight years of QTV at Cafe, coming up very, very soon, which is such a long time to celebrate trans and queer Việt Namese magic. I want to know what does this milestone mean to you, maybe it tastes a certain way, maybe it smells like nuoc mam or something like that. Jean Pham: Yeah, eight years is a long time. I think it's longer than any relationship I've ever had. , I've always found the QTViet Cafe such a beautiful, open space. It's very different from any organization I've ever been a part of. There's been times when, I've been overwhelmed and had to step away, but I've always just been invited back and I've been given that grace to be as involved as I want to. There's something we practice it's called penguin theory where we try to support the inner penguins like who you know move in advance of work but also have space for us to be modular. We built this bastion of work here in a Bay and I've eight years I think really to me starts or begins this journey of connecting with a greater diasporic queer and trans Việt Namese collective. So, last year was a big points in our journey as QTViet cafe, because we were able to. a fundraise and take about a dozen members to go back to Việt Nam and connect with Queer and Trans Việt Namese in Saigon. And that was just honestly, such like a unbelievable thing. Totally out of my imagination that we were able to do it. But now it really peaks our imagination of yes, , there's queer and trans Việt Namese people all over the world. Next year marks the 50th year since the Việt Nam War had ended, and there's diasporic queer and trans Việt Namese all across the U. S., but also France and Germany, Australia, Japan. We were able to form these meaningful connections here in the East Bay, but I think what I'm thinking about now is how do we take these lessons we've learned in community building and creating our own traditions and connecting with other locales, like in the queer and trans people in Australia , LA or New York or Texas of which, they do exist. There are other collectives, queer and trans Vietnamese there, but, how do we further unite the different threads of Diasporic Viets, and so it's kind of a very hard question to answer, but I think, again, we have such a strong organizing and magic that I think People that we connect with, they get why does work is important and it's what's what's needed right now. To build these strong points of relationships and solidarity across different locales internationally and outside of our own safe collective spaces. Hai Vo: Yeah, I resonate with everything that Jean shared. I think for me, eight years of continuing to gather and to organize and to be with one another means that the vision of a cultural healing hub, by and for queer and trans people to learn our ancestral ways, to be creative with one another, to heal with our elders still resonates like it still matters. I'm getting emotional about it because I just been thinking a lot about, this question. We're approaching 10 years and even 12 years. And I keep asking myself, as a queer Việt person, am I more free? Am I more liberated? I think I want to be asking myself that question deeply in the next phase of my life. Having gone through a journey on my own to explore my own gender, sexuality and be more loving of my trans femness and explore my art around food and food waste and being a diasporic cultural food worker, but also explore my eco- femme writing and erotica. Those things are really exciting for me, but also when we started QTViet Cafe, I came to peace with potentially being estranged from my parents. I noticed that a lot in our community, like that's a possibility. After my mom passed in 2018 and inviting my dad to, you know, I've invited my parents every year to come to QTViet, they haven't. Me inviting my dad to bring a picture of my mom for the altar. For me, like, okay, that's the cultural organizing piece. But deep down, I just really wanted to celebrate my mom and I just wanted my dad to be there. And to like witness how I've grown, witness my friends and family, witness the chosen family that I've built over time. And my dad came and my dad stayed through the program. My dad donated. My dad could have chosen not to go.  My dad could have left the program. My dad could have not donated. If anything, he could have probably done a lot of things Not in support of what we do. And not to say that this happens with every person or every family, but I think that for me, that's the power in trying to heal our relationships with ourselves and our families and with each other. Every year I hear more struggles, as queer and trans Việt people, and I also hear more joys and liberations, and so I think for me, yeah, eight years means that, we still are surviving, and we are still thriving any way that we can. Whether that's through our foodways, our practice of trying to continue the language, whether it's connecting on our different art forms, I'm hopeful. Eight years means being more of ourselves, and it means being able to experience one another being more of ourselves.  In my relationship with my dad, I've been able to be more honest. I see my dad as more honest, and I hope that by doing this cultural organizing work and arts as a way to practice healing justice, I want more of us to see each other as human. Queer, trans, Việt-ness is not a sickness or a disease. But also our parents are more than that role, that they're humans who experience war and trauma and are also healing too. And so, I think, that's a big part of what eight years means to me. Eight years also means we have, like, hundreds of recipes. I still haven't written out all the recipes, but in my mental Rolodex, we have lots of recipes, lots of songs, lots of poems, visual , art pieces, photos, videos. We just have so much art that expresses the queer trans Việt experience, especially the diaspora. I'm excited to, create more of it and also help archive that and document that and celebrate that as we approach, 10, 12 years and into the farther future.  My example is specific to my dad, but I think that we all heal in different ways with ourselves and our relationship to body and spirit, our relationship to other family, other friends, how we relate to each other, how we relate to the world. I see that in, in every one of us. Jean Pham: Everything Hai is saying is so important and beautiful. The landscape that QTViet formed in eight years ago was in many ways very different from now. There's a lot more shift in their communities too. Eight years ago, for example, I grew up in Orange County. Little Saigon, outside of Việt Nam, it's the densest Việt Namese population, where in San Jose, it's like the largest Việt Namese populations outside of Việt Nam . Still at their core like very deeply conservative locales. And, it's one of the reasons why I was seeking community in the eight years since then I think we've seen a kind of a shift. Our generation of Việt Namese diasporic students, descendants, inhabitants, we're challenging the politics, reckoning of, what does it mean for us, who descendants of refugees, people who hold all these different complexities, who also struggling to find our own space, what does it mean for us to, create and shape our own worlds, or to even resist against some of the things we were taught. I've been in QTViệt Cafe for most of my 20s, and I really feel the collective has honestly raised me in many ways that changed me for the better. I remember, one of my first QTViệt Cafe meetings, everyone was just cooking. I came in, like, on time. I was coming from a very different environment in terms of political organizing, where it's very we have a set agenda, everything's really disciplined. In QTViet Cafe spaces, we spend most, like, an hour or two just kind of checking in with each other, making sure everyone just felt okay and present, and able to move. A big part of it is still just being in community, cooking with each other, sharing recipes, and that's so central to the work. It's a slower pace, but I also felt like it's also ingenuous. It's really about building relationships and families. So many of us have complicated relationships with our blood families and. within QTViet Cafe spaces, sometimes we do talk about it, and sometimes there is space for us to explore that form of hardship, but people just understand. If we come in a space as a queer and trans Viet, there are certain experiences that are almost unfortunately, , universal, or you can just deeply feel. And everyone just almost telepathically holds that space for each other in a very, like, beautiful way. Cheryl Truong: You bring up how last year you were all able to go to Việt Nam, to the motherland. What is the landscape there? Like politically, emotionally, spiritually. Jean Pham: Yeah, last year we went in October, it was almost a week before Halloween I believe, and we had been preparing for this journey for half a year and it was actually delayed. Originally there were plans for , queer and trans Việt Namese. to go Việt Nam together in 2020. But because of the onset of the lockdown, these plans were not scrapped, but just put on pause until we could travel in a meaningful and safe way.  I would say the landscape in Việt Nam with the queer and trans, community we met, it was a big shock to me. It was, very loving, you know, like When I told my parents I was going my mom sent me this large message about how dangerous Việt Nam is, it's like a third world country, that people are gonna try to scam me or steal my belongings and that I should always be on guard, that even my friends can't necessarily be trusted because they might be fooled too. And I didn't necessarily believe her all the way, right? I think I thought she was being a little bit just overprotective. And when I met people in Việt Nam, no, it was like the exact opposite. Everyone was very curious, where are you from? Why are you here?  We met with a collective called the Bạc Xỉu Collective. Bạc Xỉu is a type of Việtnamese coffee. I thought it was interesting that both our collectives are named after community spaces that revolve around coffee. The Bạc Xỉu Collective were very, like, loving and open to us. They were just so curious that our group existed. A lot of them practice the art of drag, but they also had members who were involved with very different art forms, pretty similar to us. I think one of the questions I was trying to reckon with was, what does it mean to explore your queerness and transness, when you're not confronted with whiteness in the way that we are as people living in America. Obviously, white supremacy is global, but I felt it's such a new way to be queer in Việt Nam, if that makes sense. One of the highlights from meeting the collective was one of the first nights when we had rented this apartment suite and we invited a lot of the locals to come over and we just had a nice little kiki moment. We had brought over gifts. Hải is always very hospitable and gracious and prepared. Hải brought this entire suitcase full of seeds of gifts of prints of artwork that we had created and we exchanged it with them and they also just had a moment where we went around in a circle just shared who we are. It was bilingual. I was really nervous. I was like looking up on Google Translate, how to say something very, it was just like, Hi, my name is Jean. I'm from California. This is something I know how to say, but I was just so nervous in the moment that I was using Google Translate for it. But everyone was so nice. Local people in Việt Nam can speak, especially young people have a level of fluency in English so we were able to communicate pretty effectively, despite some of the language barriers. But I remember they were just interested and wanted to learn more. I honestly wish I could have stayed longer and just been in that moment forever.  I think the last thing I'll add: we just had a little like cute little party moment and I was like, what music do I put on? And so I just put on my regular music that I put on for, folks at home, like all like the gay boys and stuff I hang out with. And I just found that everyone, like Rihanna is universal. Like you put on Rihanna and no matter where you are in the world, people will freak out which I thought was so hilarious.  Hai Vo: A thousand percent agree. I loved everything that you shared, Gene. That question around, yeah, I love that you brought up that question.  As someone who grew up a part of my life in the diaspora, white supremacy and whiteness, it's just, it just happened. It's just every day. Most of the Bạc Xỉu Collective is a lot younger than our group. Most of the country actually is very young. I think a good percentage, if the majority of the country is under 25. I bring that up because I think that there's a level of a cultural revolution happening around art in general in Việt Nam in my experience in the last, let's say last like six years that I've been going almost every other year. And then to be able to meet other queer and trans Viet folks who were born, grew up there, live there, to hear them say things like, Yeah, I want to do drag and I want to do drag forever and this is what's going to free me and liberate me. , that's like very inspiring. I think in many ways, those of us who grew up here or, had time here in the diaspora, whiteness kind of, distracts, makes distractions, , and so , to, hear these young queer, Việt, local folks be so adamant and, and really, , trying, like, they're going to shows, they're making their own shows, they start doing their own events, asking for tickets and working with local shops and local bars to make their dreams happen. The one maybe kind of interesting thing that I want to share that I thought about in your question, Jean, is we met Bạc Xỉu Collective at a time when I went back, with Mơ, also part of QTViet Cafe, end of 2022. And up until that point, I had done visits back starting 2018 after my mom passed and, I wanted this trip to be a bit of a pre trip, kind of a research trip, and getting ready for the bigger trip with the dozen of us that Jean mentioned,. So, the night after we landed, we were introduced to the Bạc Xỉu Collective. A lot of these local Việt drag artists started this collective because they were in houses that had folks who were other than Việt, of them white European folks, and so they just were like, we want to create our own all Việt drag house, and do this show all in Việt. You know, make it bilingual, but centered on Việt-ness. , I think that's what we're trying to do. In the diaspora. I think there's different nuances in the places, but to be able to hear a queer drag Việt show Mostly like 95 percent Việt, and for most of the the space that we were at, was mostly Việt, I was like, oh, this is what it feels like to be at home. It was both and both comforting, exciting, my creative curiosity was going, but also there were moments where I was like, I don't understand that, you know?  I think they experienced their own challenges as artists over there , in trying to center their Việt-nesa and then we have our challenges here too. but they have a lot of freedom and access and connection to their Việt-ness because that's our motherland. During our time there where I was able to bring, parts of our altar that we bring and we practice here as part of our gatherings to honor our ancestors and, It was interesting, before that kiki that Jean mentioned I was asked if I could share about the altar, and then for some reason, I think at the end of the night I realized I didn't share, and then after we danced and catwalked, Some people started leaving. Some of the collective members, noticed the altar, and then they started bowing and recognizing Chị Phụng and Xuân Diệu, and they were wondering who put it together.  I think it was just me noticing them knowing what this is, where I didn't have to explain. Them just honoring them, just taking a minute, like, it was like a minute of our hundreds of minutes that we had together that night. But I just started getting emotional and crying that night because this is a moment where I don't have to explain. There's my kin who get it. And they looked at me after and they're like, well, you're crying. And I'm like, yeah, I'm crying because this practice, this ritual I feel only a few of us get it in the diaspora. What seems so special here in the diaspora is actually just very normal.  They were like, yeah, this is what I know about Chị Phụng and you should look up these other queer ancestors that I didn't know about. And I'm like, oh my God, this is one of the reasons why I wanna be here. So better understand our people. They were like, yeah, look at this up. Look at this up. Like look this, look up this person. Two nights later when we had our show together, we brought elements of the same altar, but Bạc Xỉu also brought things. They brought, their contributions and offerings to the altar, and food. It was a collaborative ritual that we had together and before the show as part of the hype up and the prep. We got to cúng mǎ to honor our ancestors and I'll never forget that moment to be able to practice ritual in addition to the show where we're sharing our expressive creative arts. Everyone knew the importance of why we were doing that and that we come from a deep lineage of queer trans, have probably paved the way and fought for their existence and for our existence to be here. I think that spiritually, that's a way that I felt like I was able to connect over there. I'd also say in your question, Cheryl, I think the last time I heard the the government approves same sex marriage. I would say culturally, it's a whole other story. I think because of colonization, imperialism, um, queerness and transness has been erased. And so I think that why it's so important for us to do this work in the diaspora because, our parents and our elders, they have left a motherland and so there's a gap in culture and understanding, and, it's a harder struggle to justify that actually, no, we have queer, trans, Việt history, and we come from a lineage of queer folks, and I think that for me that cultural work is so important because by sharing the history of our people, by sharing our creative expression, by sharing the struggles of, who we are both here in the diaspora and also in Việt Nam. And a lot of those struggles are around the same things. Family acceptance, belonging, economic justice, employment, , access to resources, access to healthcare, jobs. Those things are actually very similar , in my meeting, in my connecting with queer folks there. Those systems that are, creating those struggles are the same, like they're the same capitalist, Corporate imperialist systems. What I'm hopeful for is that what we're doing as queer and trans Việt folks in the diaspora, connecting with queer and trans Việt folks who are in Việt Nam know– I want to imagine a world without borders. For me the art and the creativity and trying to transform the struggles that we all experience as queer and trans people to stories and actually life ways of resilience. I'm hoping changing hearts and minds. Will ultimately transform practice and policy. The government might be saying one thing, but at home, it's actually a different story. That's why our work is important to try to change heart and minds. I want to get to a place where my dad would be like, okay, yeah, same sex marriage. My child and their friends, are members of the community who are respectful and joyful and wanting to contribute to society, just as much as our, just as much as our queer trans, Việt ancestors have to. Cheryl Truong: Thank you so much for bringing us here, Hai.  You've highlighted some really important point. Colonization capitalism, white supremacy. These are, systems of oppression that while they manifest differently, as you say, they are global in nature and. In escapable and then impact is both here in America and also in Vietnam.  The motherland, like the forces at play are very much the same. I really appreciate the insights that both of you have shared, especially in response to Jean's extremely evocative question about what it means to explore queerness and transness when you're not confronted with whiteness. Hai,, your story about the altar and Bạc Xỉu Collective connection to ancestral practices and rituals. They're embracing of our trans and queer Viet histories. And how. How it creates this deep sense of kinship. I think these are powerful reflections. The diaspora. You know, as you say. As a result of imperialism and capitalism.  Makes us a bit disconnected from these wisdoms at the motherland and what you share truly clarifies. And sharpens. What's up the forces at play and the vast systemic issues that we're confronting. But also, it really deepens my admiration for. The extremely revolutionary work that QTVIet Cafe is doing to bridge this gap and are in our world, filled with borders.  Okay. We're going to take a quick music break. But stay tuned. We'll be right back.   Cheryl Truong: And we're back. You were listening to apex express on 94.1, FM KPFA and online@kpfa.org. You were just listening to change the world by baby Chris.  We are still here with Hai Vo and Jean Pham from QTViet Cafe. For the first half of our show, we were reflecting on what eight years of QTV at cafe means and also learning. And also about the trip that they took together as a collective to Vietnam last year to learn more about trans and queer. Experience of local Vietnamese of local Viet. And of course, as the artists that they all are, they created a film about it. Let's get back to the show.  Speaking of changing hearts and minds, tell me about this documentary that you all created when you were in Việt Nam.  Hai Vo: I think the idea started because, so my parents and my brother left as boat people in 86 and I was born In Iowa in 87 after being sponsored by a Presbyterian Church. I went for the first time to Việt Nam when I was 7 and again when I was 12. I remember my parents were obsessed with camcorders. I don't know if you all have this but, there's still so many VHS tapes that I think I need to digitize, But I think the spirit of homeland trips being documented in my family is such a thing.  When I was thinking about this trip, 2018, when I started coming back when I was 12, it wasn't until 22 years later, when I was 34, that I came back after my mom passed. Going back, I was , curious about how people document their experience going back to the homeland and these days with reels and social media, people doing daily blogs and just all the things, I was curious. But I think there's an element of that kind of old school, just document everything. And then coming back here a few weeks later, just over dinner, just see everything unedited. Um, so, yeah, that was part of the inspiration and then fortunately, 1 of our collective members, and, and members Tracy Nguyen and folks with the Sunkist SunKissed,they've been documenting the QTViet Cafe experience since the beginning, really.  So much of what's on YouTube and online of our work is, through their documentation. Basically was like, Sal, I don't have a lot of money. We don't have a lot of money, but here's a little bit of money that I fundraise so far and we can keep fundraising as part of the collective effort. What do you say about trying to document this experience with us? I think what's so powerful about the collective is by it for us. Knowing that Sal and other folks who practice videography and film are already part of the collective and are already interested in a trip, I think, it's easier to share and connect on the goal of connecting with other queer and trans folks.  We've never done a trip like this and then two, we've never documented a trip like this. Everything was new. And we were going into it. We had like ideas of how we wanted to film this and there were some proposals and we Filmed some of the activities that we had before the trip like some of our planning retreats and some of our fundraising events. Sal did some interviews of how we felt before in all the feelings of like anxious and excited, nervous. And I ultimately was just like, Sal, here's our best agenda, here's like a guide of what each day will look like. Ultimately, I want to give all of us a creative permission just experience this trip and to let's do our best to document it. And as long as we're truthful and honest. As long as we can just share our full humanhood, whatever happens on the other side, I think will be amazing. After that, it just had a little bit of relief knowing that. Honestly, we were inspired by Videos that other queer trans folks were doing in Việt Nam. It's like abstract and editorial and like voiceover and like, it's just like, just put it out there. That was part of our inspo. I think just as much as, our identities and sexualities and gender are fluid, I wanted to encourage, the film and documentation to be just as fluid. Fortunately, we had folks who were filming and doing sound, and with the support of , everyone in the collective, we're all taking photos and doing videos. We're, hoping to just share honestly and report not just our experience, but also share the struggles that we experienced as queer and trans people, the struggles that queer and trans people, in Việt Nam experience to the power of what it means to collaborate together and, um, do something historic and do a first event there ever. we hope to share our post trip reflections of what it's meant for us.  Jean Pham: Yeah, it was just like a fun process for us to take upon this trip and each of us in our own way, document it. QTViet Cafe has different disciplines of artists– filmmakers, photographers, writers, dancers, and so forth, that one of the things we were also asked to do was, to take our own photos and to share it throughout the entire process.  For me it was a different experience because this is my first time going to Việt Nam. My parents came here in 89 and I was born in 95. I guess if you're not a part of the diasporic Việt Namese American population, there are certain, like, ideas held about Việt Nam that some people from the older generation have about, Việt Nam as , a socialist country. And also, like, what it means for people who are refugees to be reckoned with, how their country has transformed. And so I've never gone back to Việt Nam because my parents honestly thought this is like a lost country. It's not home for us anymore. And so a lot of ideas about Việt Nam and what it is now, we're, Reproduced and given to me and of course, like it's a lot of unpacking too, right? Because I honestly don't believe a lot of these held ideas that they have about Việt Nam. And it was important for me to want to experience that. Việt Nam for myself, in a way where I could truly see what the country is and not in a way that necessarily demonizes it or even romanticizes it. A lot of like diasporic poetry and art and writing I feel kind of like hinges or teeters that like point of almost romanticizing their ancestral country. And I think it's important for us to unpack all these like held beliefs and biases. In college, I did a lot of poetry, slam poetry, and I always recognized the language barrier is a big part of access, not being able to fully understand or communicate with our parents is a tension that many like second or third generation Americans face. The way that I think QTViet Cafe interacts with that is pretty ingenious, but also very, what one should do, which is just simply to learn the language. We need to teach each other the language so that we can communicate with each other in Việt Namese. That was another big part of our preparation too.  Some collective members. held Việt Namese classes for us to talk to each other, talk to locals, talk to other queer folks. And also the language is important because as much as we have our own lingo and slang as queer and trans communities here, so do they in Việt Nam, in Việt Namese. With the documentary, not everyone has the same experience, right? For me, it was my first time. So I was trying to visit places where my parents grew up, trying to see the city from my own eyes. Some people had a lot more connection with Việt Nam and had visited it, Việt Nam and Saigon many times before. So in a documentary, there are certain members of the collective that have like more keyed interviews that kind of talk about that difference because even within our collective, we're not monolithic in terms of our experiences and you can see the different ways like we're shaped by it.  I think the last thing I'll share with you is definitely, and Hai, and I kind of talked about this. It's in conversation pretty often, but a lot of eateries, Việt Namese restaurants in the US are kind of stuck in time because a lot of them are, restaurants that are Staffed and created by diasporic Việt Namese refugees. The food has like definitely developed a lot in Việt Nam. And so has the language. It almost feels like, you know, us in a diaspora, us here in California, we're in like a time bubble. And going to Việt Nam breaks that. And lets us experience what does Việt Nam look like now in like 2024, 2023. Now that it has like modernized. You know, most people, most queer and trans Việt Namese people we've met were either in underground economies or they're gig workers or they're freelance workers. I think there's a lot of parallels between the ways that queer and trans people move here and also in Việt Nam. Although there is definitely like that point of us visiting Việt Nam as Americans. or people who have American passports, there is a class dynamic to it. So yeah, it, I would say part of the complication is There are things we were trying to resolve within our own bodies by going back to Việt Nam, but also things we had to reckon with, like the differences too, and how, I think for me, one of the most jarring things was realizing that in Saigon, there are provinces or like neighborhood, entire neighborhoods that are home to just people who immigrated out from their countries and had access to a larger degree of wealth and who are actively perhaps displacing Saigonese locals and realizing that if I wasn't careful, then these are structural issues that can be created if we don't examine our place like in context. Yeah. And I'll check there. Yeah.  Cheryl Truong: Thanks so much for sharing Jean and Hai. That's just about all the time we have left tonight. For those interested in seeing the premiere of their Đồng Quể documentary, learning more about QTViet Cafe. And or celebrating eight years of queer trans Viet magic, please join QTViet Cafe on September 1st in Oakland, California. They will be having an exciting celebration. ? Hai, how can people learn more? Hai Vo: Yeah, we're excited to invite everyone to our eight year anniversary. We're premiering Đồng Quể, which is the film of their Việt Nam trip. We are planning to have it, on Sunday, September 1st. 5 to 9 at Firehouse Oakland in Chinatown. And, yeah, we're live on the tickets and registration.  It'll be up on our IG, @qtvietcafe, it'll be up on our Facebook, it'll be up on our website. Folks can also subscribe to our newsletter too via our website. Yeah, September 1st, Sunday, evening time, 5 to 9, Chinatown at Firehouse in Oakland.  Cheryl Truong: Thank you all. So thank you both so much for being here for coming on the show. And for our listeners, please join us September 1st at the firehouse in Oakland. You hear all of these stories, these intimate details at Jean and Hai have shared with us income to live. For those interested in learning more. QTViet Cafe's socials Facebook, Instagram website, all that good stuff will be in the show notes as well as a link to their registration form. As well as their bilingual letter for a free Palestine. That was written in collaboration with members of QTViet Cafe, the Dallas, Asian American historical society, and also various other community supporters. This letter is bilingual. It starts off with dear family. And is meant to catalyze an intergenerational conversation about Palestine. Everyone has a different relationship story to our families and lineage, so this resource is a conversation starter so please check it out.  It'll also be in the show notes.   Thank you all so much for listening and I'll see you next time. .  Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – August 22, 2024 – 8 Years of QTViet Cafe! appeared first on KPFA.

This week on The Retail Perch, Shekar and Gary are excited to welcome an intelligent and humorous guest, Kevin Coupe, the founder of Morning News Beat—a news platform that provides the latest updates and insights in the retail industry. As Kevin shares his journey from starting out as a news reporter, the trio dives into discussions on retailers' reactions to AI, the shifting dynamics of advertising, Amazon, and much more.

In this episode of the Greenbook Podcast, host Lenny Murphy sits down with Pravin Shekar, a multifaceted entrepreneur, author, poet, adventurer. The conversation explores Pravin's approach to "unconventional decision making," emphasizing the importance of standing out by thinking and acting differently in business and life. They delve into Pravin's new book, "Convert Customer Bias into Business," which highlights how understanding human psychology and biases can enhance marketing strategies. Pravin shares insights from his extensive career, stressing the need for continuous personal and professional reinvention. The episode is a rich blend of practical business advice and inspiring personal anecdotes, aiming to motivate listeners to embrace their unique paths and create meaningful differences in their endeavors.You can reach out to Pravin on LinkedIn. Many thanks to Pravin for being our guest. Thanks also to our producer, Natalie Pusch; and our editor, Big Bad Audio.Mentioned in this episode:

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Resources: APSC 4 Action Toolkit Asian Prisoner Support Committee Website | Instagram Purchase Arrival: Freedom Writings of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Transcript: Cheryl: Good evening! You were currently tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host Cheryl Truong, and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE, you might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justicegroups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network — AACRE — leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX Express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  Tonight. I have the incredible honor to introduce you all to some very special friends of mine, members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee APSC, which is also one of the 11 groups with the AACRE network. These individuals are among the most incredible people I've had the privilege to know. And tonight we'll be delving it to their stories and the important initiative that they're leading which is called #PardonAPSC4?  Their journey is not only one of immense resilience and courage, but also a Testament to the importance of community care and how community based approaches keep us safe way more than surveillance institutions or police ever will. So join us as they share their stories and also stick around to learn more about APSC's newest anthology, Arrival: freedom, writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders, where you can actually find some of their art and writings in physical form. So to start here with us, are Maria, Peejay, Bun, and Ke who put the four in APSC4. Peejay, do you mind kicking us all off with what the #PardonAPSC4 for campaign is all about?  Peejay: So APSC 4 are staff members at APSC and we all do different work at A PSC but our primary is helping our community. In general, fighting deportation, helping folks come home and reintegrate to society and supporting them with other needs that they may have, right? Mainly just to become successful citizen and. APSC4, despite our work, we all have backgrounds in incarceration, we're impacted, which means we're also at risk for deportation. And the campaign is born out of a desire to keep us home to fight our own deportation. And so we need the Governor Newsom to actually issue a pardon so that we can continue to do this work and stay with our family. Because otherwise, they would eventually, deport us. And as immigration is a very hard thing to deal with, and there's not a lot of options, especially with folks with convictions. And pardonness for us is like mainly the only thing that can help us stay home. And APS v4 mainly is to, it's a campaign to ask community members to support us, that mean elected official, that mean community members that you know, family members, anyone who's willing to support us, and basically uplift our campaign as well as reach out to elected and to Governor Newsom and encourage him to pardon us so that we can stay home and do this work. Cheryl: Thanks Peejay. You're literally hearing about the campaign directly from the people who are leading the way. So we know about APSC 4. We've heard a little bit about their campaign. But I also want you all to know about the people within APSC 4. And this is very in theme, especially with APSC's upcoming anthology Arrival, which captures stories of Asian American Pacific Islander individuals inside prisons, or who have been detained by ICE or have been recently released from ICE or prisons and as well as stories from impacted family members. So until you all get your hands on that, which is available for purchase now at Eastwind Books of Berkeley Berkeley. Which you can get at asiabookcenter.com. I would love to introduce you all to the beautiful, incredible, inspiring people of APSC 4. everyone's nodding their head. It's really cute. So let's start with,, maybe Ke, do you want to introduce yourself? Let our listeners know, who are you? Who are your people? Where do you come from?  Ke: Hi, my name is Ke Lam. My first, that's my full name is Nip Ke Lam which means in finishing my father's business in my language. So I'm Chinese Vietnamese. I also am a refugee baby who came here when I was four years old to America. So my people are all the impacted folks, all the juvenile lifers. And everyone that's trying to make a change in their life and looKeng for a second chance.  Cheryl: Thank you so much. I love that. Maria, do you want to introduce yourself next? Who are you? Who are your people?  Maria: Hi, my name is Maria Legarda and I'm the reentry consultant for APSC. My people are impacted folks, incarceration, immigration, detention, the survivors and, the resilient women who are still inside, those are my people. And my APC family and the community members who work towards change to improve our communities. People just didn't decide one day to commit crimes, right? There's always a reason behind because of events that led to that. People that make changes in the community to help it make it better for them to have that. Those are my people too. You know what else? I forgot what the question was.  Cheryl: Maria, you answered. Everything perfectly. The question was who are you and who are your people? And you answered it by giving a huge list of who your people are and I think that's very definitive of who you are as a person. But is there anything else you want to add to that, Maria?  Maria: I think that covered it all.  Cheryl: Beautiful. All right, Peejay, do you want to introduce yourself?  Peejay: So I am Peejay, real name is Borey Ai, but I go by Peejay, and Peejay has been in my life for many years longer than I can remember, but it has shifted and shaped in different forms, but I answer to both now, and I am a child refugee, I'm Cambodian, my family escaped the Khmer Rouge when it happens, and then I immigrate to Thailand to find refuge, and my mom and my dad met there, and so I was conceived and was born in Thailand, came to the United States when I was five, and yeah, and then got in trouble, trying to resettle into the, to the new environment, new culture, and I end up in prison. I share that to say that my people are folks who are impacted, people who I can relate to, and my experiences, so the refugee folks community And, my elders at CERI, obviously APSC and AACRE are all my community members and anyone who is in a fight, like where I'm learning, as I sit in a lot of different coalition spaces, doing my work, as an advocacy with APSC, and I've learned that a lot of community members are sharing the same work, sharing the same values, sharing the same goals, and the people that I'm in community with, so they are my people. And yeah, just like with Marie, like anyone who's striving to make changes to better our community members who are impacted is my community.  Cheryl: And last but not least Bun.  Bun: Hey, y'all! Thank you. My name is Chanton Bun, but I just go by Bun. I'm a, I was born during the genocide in Cambodia. I grew up in the refugee camps. Came to the U. S. when I was about six or seven years old. I'm formerly incarcerated. I'm a father of three boys. Grandfather Yeah, I'm the reentry coordinator here at Asian Prince Support Committee. And I also mentor at risk youth in our community. My folks are the incarcerated, the formerly incarcerated, the community the youth that is growing in our community now. And just supporting our community through a lot of these traumas that we still  Cheryl: It's so interesting hearing all of you introduce yourself because I work a lot with the APSC four members just through AACRE. But and I just learned that bun is a grandfather.    Bun: Yeah, I was gonna say that I'm not that old, but I am a grandfather.  Cheryl: All right now is that we've had the chance to hear from each of you about your backgrounds and the communities that you represent and the people that you carry with you. I would like to delve a bit deeper into your personal stories. Each of you have faced unique challenges and experiences that have shaped who you are today. Could you each share with our listeners a bit about some of the hardships that you have all encountered along your journey?  Bun: Oh, I can go.  Yeah. Growing up yeah, I grew up in the refugee camps. So I was faced with like starvation not knowing what safety was, there was, living in the refugee camps. There were so many I saw so many people hurt or walKeng in almost dead. I think I was numb to it coming to this country. I was faced with bullying a lot and being discriminated against. Being poor wasn't really. And I didn't realize we were poor because in the refugee camp, we were poor. So like coming here, we had, we had a roof on our head and food and, family all around the fear of, somebody coming into our house, just taKeng our stuff or, doing what they want because we were in refugee camps when I came to the United States. I didn't realize we were poor for a long time. But the bullying and the discrimination was really hard. I remember even the school discriminated against us because I guess they didn't know where we're from. One of my memory was me and my cousins and an uncle, we went to school and we all wore slippers. They called our parents to come pick us up and say, you guys cannot wear slippers. You need shoes. And like our parents didn't realize that we're like that's what we wear for shoes. So that's one of the first like memories. I knew that we didn't understand the U. S. And then, you know, Keds around the neighborhood. We're just picKeng on us because we didn't speak English or we didn't understand the rules we were, and then it was just like a bunch of us Keds. Cause when I came to LA, I lived in an apartment with about 25 of us living there because our cousins and stuff, all we came from Texas, our cousins were here. And we just wanted to be together because we've been separated for a while. And all we knew was me, my uncles, and my cousin, we walked everywhere together. Some of us caught on caught English earlier, so we understood more, some didn't. So we're just guiding each other. And then when we were bullied Our parents told us to just take it. And we knew that in, in the refugee camp we had no power. We took whatever they wanted. I remember getting robbed like three times a week and they're taKeng our pots and pans. So like keeping quiet was a thing. So we just kept quiet and we didn't trust authorities at all. Never complained to the principal or the teacher at all, but then we grew into That, that, that, that fear grew into anger and the need was protection. So the boys in, in, in my family is nah, we're not taKeng this no more. And we just started defending ourself, fighting and just or my thought, and I'm pretty sure like all my, my, my uncles and my cousin's thoughts were like, we got to protect. Each other because we can't walk home crying all the time or we can't walk home seeing our cousin walk home crying. So we just said the next time we're going to fight back and whatever the consequences and the cost. The consequences of coming home, like the teacher calling like, Hey, you're going to fight. That's what the consequences because our parents was like against fighting against violence. But, the consequences of getting detention in class wasn't, that wasn't nothing to us. We were scared of coming home, but that, that led into a lifestyle of violence, a lifestyle of feeling that I need protect myself from everything and don't matter what the situation was. And, it tumbled into joining gangs for protection and in the gang lifestyle. overtook that fear and we just, gravitated to it because it gave us strength. It gave us a sense of, sense of brotherhood, a sense of safety, a sense of I'm not going to get hurt no more. So that's how my life spiraled.  Cheryl: Yeah, the interesting thing about radio is that y'all can't see their faces when Bun was telling the story, literally everyone in this room right now, we're nodding their heads, and y'all can't see that because it doesn't translate into radio. Ke, I saw you nodding your head a lot. Do you want to share your story?  Ke: My story is very similar to probably Bun's and Peejay's being come here as a refugee baby. I don't remember my whole journey to America. I just remember my journey in America. I just, I remember growing, we moved around a lot in California. We came into San Francisco, moved around. I remember home for me was the barrier, but predominantly San Francisco. And we moved all over the city. We lived in Chinatown, 100th Point, Petro Hill, Sunset. I remember as a Ked parents separated when I was about six. No, in and out of relationship when I was seven. So they, they basically wasn't around for me or each other. They dealt with, dealing with trauma. My mom lost her parents on the way to America. Yeah. My mom's parents was actually murdered by pirates in the open South China sea. So she dealt with that and she did not deal with that to cope with that. So she, she did what she did best. And that's, is finding an end jobs and then dealing with a husband who was abusive. And so we live when we moved to patrol Hill. We got our place got robbed all the time. We ended up having to put bars on our doors and our windows. I remember my mom would say, don't go outside. Knows anytime of the day. So I basically was like in a prison in our little apartment. And I had to run this. I remember trying to go to school one time by myself and I got jumped multiple times. I remember they, they do rocks at me. They do run eggs at me. They push me push me down. They didn't let their dogs chase after me. So the funny joke about that, I said, I was grateful for them because they actually made me really good at track and field, so I was able to run real fast and jump fences, so that was, I like, I was grateful for that. But I took, the route to school was only five minute walk, but it took me 30 minutes every day to, one each way to come to go to school and come home, just so I could avoid my bullies. I remember one time they actually caught up to me when I was like eight years old, and I had to, I had really no choice but to fight. And after that day, after they jumped me, after I fought one of those guys, I remember I was standing over the Ked that I fought, and I saw the parent just yelling at me like how you let that chink, that Chinese Ked, that chink beat you up. And then I saw his friend walKeng up to me like they about to assault me, and I'm like, I'm about, I'm, I'm about to get messed up, but instead they congratulated me. They said good job, welcome to the neighborhood. And so I'm like, from that day on, I normalized violence. Violence is the way to solve your problems, and it's also the way to be accepted in the neighborhood. And that's, and that opened my eyes to, everywhere I looked, there was violence, all different forms of violence. My mom was gone all the time. She was never home. I became a parent. My mom had my second, third oldest my brother. And I end up becoming a parent at eight years old, raising my little brother for a whole year by myself because the neighbor was some old elderly Asian couple just didn't care about him. He had diaper rashes and I just took care of him. I built a lot of resentment towards my mom. I'm like, you abandoned us. You abandoned me. You abandoned my brother. What Kend of mother are you? I remember I went out, I stole diapers, stole formulas, stole food, also begged for money at the streets not in the neighborhood, but, different parts of the cities and yeah, it just, I, it felt, I felt like my mom didn't care. My dad was never around, he was out of the picture, so I didn't even think about him. My teenage years. I became really good at sports, played a lot of sports growing up. At the age of 15, we moved to Richmond, California, where I got introduced to the gang lifestyle. I didn't know nothing about gangs. It was the first time I actually grew up, I went to a school where there was a lot of Asians. In San Francisco, all the schools I went to were predominantly Blacks and Mexican and Pacific Islanders. And I didn't know, certain words meant certain things, and then I learned what a blood and a crib is. I didn't know what that was, because I remember growing up in San Francisco, we used the word, the term blood all the time as a form of, like family. And so when I went to Richard and they were like, what's up? I was like, what's up, blood? And they were like, just cuz. I'm like, cousin? I was confused. I didn't like, I didn't know what that meant. But then I didn't know that by me hanging out with them that their enemies also became my enemies. And and then I remember if I walked around by myself, their enemy would try to attack me thinKeng I was one of them, which I wasn't. And so I became a wannabe at the time and I like associate with them. I started KecKeng with them. But one thing that drew me really close to the gang, the Asian gang, was that our story was very similar to each other. They understood my story, understood this story. We all struggled. I remember growing up, I had to be a translator for my parents, my mom. She would take me out of school and I resented her for that. Why? I didn't want to learn English. And so that was, and that just came on as I got older. That resentment came and then I committed my crime when I was 17 years old because I was trying to show my homeboys like you got to show me love. I'm gonna be there. I want to be the best I could be. I wanted a name for myself. I wanted that respect. And I didn't think about the consequences at the time. My life was on, it was on the road down destruction. So I didn't care about myself and I didn't care about nobody else and I didn't care about my siblings either at the time. And so that's what ended up happening to me before, growing up as a Ked. Cheryl: What about you, Peejay? Peejay: Yeah, I think what Keechi said, like my life And Bun and his similar, like I came here when I was five and then like I got bullied right away, right? Like at the earlier stage. And at the time I didn't even, I didn't even understand it, even know what it is. And I think like this one story Kend really highlighted my introduction to bullying. I was in the park, a bunch of Keds laughed at me, right? They're laughing, right? And so I'm like, at the time I didn't know they were laughing at me. They were just laughing. And so I laughed. I thought they were laughing, because we're friends or something, right? They liked me. So I laughed too. I didn't know what that was laughing about, but one of the Keds got angry and came up and punched me in the face. I realized, he punched me in the face, he was screaming and yelling at me, I didn't know what he was saying but I understood right then and there he wasn't laughing with me, he was laughing at me. So what happened, I laughed too, so it got him angry, learned right away, What like bully was right and then I wasn't like well accepted, share the same story of like most Southeast Asian community, we get spit on we get beat up, in school and things like that. But I think the message I got, most deeply about I'm not wanted, is, we talked about that the Cleveland elementary school shooting, that was where I was with the first school shooting in the United States where Southeast Asian community was targeted by, And I lost my cousin during a school shooting. But that was like a big statement, some dude showed up in the, in the playground, climbing up the roof with an AK 47 and shooting at us, right? They were like telling me, that's a big statement you're not wanted, for me it was like, I grew up in a very bad environment as it is, where there's a lot of gangs, there's a lot of violence, a lot of shooting, a lot of, stuff happening in the neighborhood and then, getting constantly bullied all the time and, spit on and tell you that you're not wanted to go back to your country. And then when that happened, I just shut down, I didn't believe that my environment is safe anymore. And I, obviously when you're in a refugee camp, like when I go you don't feel safe, you know what safety is, right? So I grew up never feeling safe, right? And I was moving around. And so that led me to gangs, right? Like he, I joined a gang. I felt the love in the gang. The bully stopped, and they started giving me hugs, showing me love and as someone who craves acceptance, since the day you step into a new country, just wanting to belong somewhere that felt really good, and I was a Ked. I was like, man, I felt so good. Like I felt like I belong somewhere. Like people care about me. This is my family. And for me, like that, that bought me into this idea, like this is what most of my life is about. I'm going to give everything for these, for the homies. And, the Ke, I agreed to commit a crime, At 14 and end up in the prison system as one of the youngest juvenile lifer, and I was pretty much raised in the system. I think I spent more time in prison than I've been home, been out on the street. So everything I learned, in prison, right? And then I came home as an adult after 20 something years. And not like trying to just, as an adult in a new society with not a lot of experience. So fortunately, people like he, people like Bun, Maria, who does this work, that's why APC4 Reentry Program is so important, right? Because people like me didn't know how to use a cell phone, didn't know how to turn on a computer, didn't do a lot of stuff, right? I've learned a lot of stuff in prison. So I have a lot of advantage as I was investing in myself and doing my programming to earn my parole, but even still this stuff, I didn't know, and I imagine people it was worse than both of I was to have some knowledge and have a lot of access that I did, but I'll show you, I'll show you to say it's hard, it's hard in our work, help transition. I remember he took me shopping, show me how to use Bart, how to use public transportation. The trajectory of my life would have much been different. If I grew up in a different environment, like that's something I was clear about. And so now like we try to create those environment for our community because we'll know better. We learn from our past experience and now like giving back to our community. Is, for me, it's like, for me, like this work is my life, like it's my life because I've lived through it, like someone saved my life, I didn't want to make it home without people showing up, doing this work. So I feel like for me giving back and continuing this work is part of the commitment. Creating change and giving back, but I feel like I was meant to do this, like I, I came home with a purpose, I went to prison with absolutely no clue, just trying to survive. And I came home with a purpose. I feel like I have some Kend of meaning in my life. So that's Kend the short summary of my life. I like my connection to APS C is my work and my work is my life. Cheryl: (Peejay I think your genuine passion for what you do really shows, and I'm sure our listeners can feel it too.) Maria, please. We would love to hear your story. .  Maria: For me. Unlike Peejay, Ke, and Bun, I wasn't a refugee, during the war. I immigrated to the U. S. During the time when the economic the economy in the Philippines is not doing great. I was born during the time of the Marcus dictatorship. That was during Ferdinand Marcus regime in the Philippines where we were under his dictatorship for 30 years. During that time, growing up. I had siblings and my younger sister became ill, with my parents being gone all the time taKeng care of my sister. It was a difficult childhood, from what we were used to, and just the changes. In our lives. And at that time, my parents did the best that they could to support us, all three of us, but because they don't know actually what was going on with my sister, right? It was difficult for a parent to see their child. Child suffering, and she was young. She was only four. So at that time, I was left to take care of my brother. And it was the two of us, fending for ourselves. It took a toll on my parents, and the time spent with me and my brother and my sister were very limited. And I felt abandoned. This was our life before, my sister got sick. We were happy. We're going on vacations summer. By the beach, even if it's just, right there, you go to the beach with your chocolates and you just hop on the, the side of it's the islands, right? So we had fun. We just stopped doing all those things. And the only thing we knew was my sister was sick. That was it. My parents didn't know how to explain something that they don't know either what was going on. So I guess that my expectation is such a young age is, my parents were in my world. So expecting them to tell us like what was going on and the feeling of that abandonment and that unworthiness being unloved and cared for really was there, it's just there, but I never manifested it because I didn't know how to, but I knew what I was feeling inside. And so when parents fought my sister's condition got worse and eventually at the age of 10, she passed away, so my parents would, my parents, other than the heartache, the heartbreak of losing a child was left with huge financial debt. In, in our culture, the eldest takes care of the family, right? So at that time I was going to school my parents provided for us that we can still go to school. It was hard. We managed it. We went through a lot, but in the end my parents did the best that they can for me and my brother. So I, I had the opportunity, to come to the U S. And I came here by myself without any contingency, any plan, but the idea that maybe when I get there, then I'll figure it out because I see a lot of people leaving the Philippines, coming over here, finding work. So I'll also do that. And that was the trend during that time. In the 90s, a lot of people were immigrating to the U. S. to find like a better life, right? And so when I came during that time I mentioned that longing, the attention, that abandonment. And so I was here alone and I met someone. I met someone and everything that I needed, that person listened to me. He cared. He loves me. He actually, somebody does actually care how I feel. And so I never thought that he would be the person to hurt me. And so we were talKeng like really getting to know each other. And then six months, we decided to meet. And on the day we met, I became a victim of sexual assault. And Again, the, it was worse, there were, I don't even have words for how, I felt after the betrayal because my whole world just shattered, and being alone here, it wasn't, it's not like the Me Too movement that we have now. Back then, we don't speak of it. And one thing I did at that time that I tell the women now, the young women, it is not your fault because I met him. Do I really know him? No. Growing up in a culture where you just don't go out with somebody you don't know, right? That was the time then people were meeting chat rooms, online dating. So I carried that guilt with me that it was my fault. For a long time, it took me a long time to really process that it wasn't my fault. It was done to me. I didn't ask for it. But I carried that. So drugs were the only thing that I was able to cope with because it made me numb. It made me forget. It gave me that false sense of power that I can take control back of my life. Not knowing that once I use drugs, I, it, I become numb to it all. And that eventually led me to incarceration. And so now after years of self introspection and just understanding what has, what the challenges and, the difficulties and all the heartbreaks that I had went through in life, going to self help groups and hearing the other survivors overcome it And stepping out of that that it was my fault, having to hear that the first time is what broke me free from that. Now, in my line of work, I can easily recognize it, because I was there. I know how it felt. And I always I've been, blessed to be able to grant that space, that safety space for our folks, men and women, when they share their struggles, because I've been there. I know what it's like. So I do, I'm passionate about my work because I've seen how I've turned things around. I saw myself, how I picked myself back up. I saw myself when I was really down that at the end of the day when people around you care enough to get to know you more than your past, you're going to get through it, and my, work in APSC And Ke would be the I came out of detention and Ke was one of the first one of the first people that I met other than Nia, Nia was a volunteer at that time with APSC and being undocumented it was hard for me to get anything. So Ke was there from the beginning. This is what you need to do. Don't worry. I'm going to walk you through it. And without Ke. guiding me through those steps it would have been much harder. It was already hard, but this was going to be extremely harder if he didn't give me the guidance. He didn't know what was going to happen, but he knew something to guide me. So that's why that's how I Eventually got to work with APSE because the first time they had their internship program, I think five minutes into posting it, I already submitted my application because I knew that the journey that I was taKeng on at that time as an undocumented immigrant, I know that there's going to be ways that I'm gonna, I have to find another way. Because I'm not the only one, and I know a lot of women coming home, men and women that are coming home are going to need their IDs, are going to need their social security, are going to need all their documentation, and who's best to explore them, right? Than me. Why? Because right now, this is where God has me, right? He has me on this path to help people. So let's get it done. And so that's why I stay with my APSC because I believe in what they do for a community because they started with me.  Cheryl: Maria!. That is such a beautiful point. And I think that last sentence that you shared is really why I admire the work of APC. So, so incredibly much, like not only is it work. For. Impacted folk. But it's also led for and by impacted folk who really understand the experiences of what it's like. And when your work is led by those who have truly experienced the impact firsthand. You approach people with a level of empathy that makes a real difference. And I'm listening to the things that you've all shared. You know, it's clear that what often matters most are the things that people like me who have never been behind bars often take for granted, you know, it's things like. You know your stories of needing Ke to. Teach you how to navigate BART? How do you secure your ID? What's a. Social security number. And the emotional support that comes with helping someone reintegrate into society. I truly don't know where a community would be without the incredible work that you all do with APC for.   Now I'm eager to learn more about the impactful work that you're doing within our community. What has been some of the most rewarding aspects of your work in. Reentry support and mentorship. Time is a factor. So maybe we could hear from maybe two of you. Bun: I think the most rewarding about re entry for me is, Watching the person I'm helping know that they have support, in my life there was nothing out there to support us other than gangs. But just. Watching them know that they have support, empowering them and their family to understand the system understand a person when they're coming home with family relations, and also relationships with their Keds because a lot of us have been incarcerated for so long. Just that, like he always say the first 90 days are important to show them the support that they really need because like myself, I was lost. I was like a loss, the last person coming home. I didn't even know how to cross the street. It took somebody to come take me to cross the street and walk me down the street because I wouldn't do what I was like, I can't do it. It's terrifying. But yeah just. A lot of folks often think like reentry is like a, no, we have to go get you a job, get you this. And those are important too. But the important thing is the little things like, teaching, teaching somebody how to answer their phone, teach them how to, setting up their calendar, teaching them across the street, walKeng, maKeng decisions when we're ordering stuff, taKeng them shopping, letting them shop for themselves. So these are the little things that. A lot of us and especially myself, I could speak for having anxiety, it was a really big anxiety of learning how to navigate society when I came home. I think a lot of our folks in reentry and. And it's crazy. Often, like when we take them on everybody in RedsKens is thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm like, what are you thanKeng me for? This is what you deserve, and then you'll hear it. They'll thank us all day. And we want to relate to them. This is what you deserve. This is what all of us deserve when we're coming home. This is what all of us deserve when we're growing up in our communities is this support from people that looks like you. People come from the same background, people that understand you. That's what really give me a lot of joy when I do my work is to seeing folks know that they do have support from folks that have been through it and folks that look like them, folks that's been through things like them. So that's my biggest joy when I do this work,  Ke: I like to jump in real quick I remember when I came home before all the rest of my colleagues here. I had no one like no one knew how to navigate the system. No, I like I came home with a loss of status. So I didn't know that I wasn't American that, I got released from immigration. And it just Kecked me out. And then it's I want to go get an ID. And it's we need two form of IDs. And I'm like, what do you need? They need, they said, we need a birth certificate or a passport. And I said, I have neither, no, neither one. And they said, what about a green card? I said my green card is no good no more. According to what they told me. So I'm like, I have no former I. D. I couldn't get I. D. And it took me a while to get I. D. And just learning how to navigate barred and everything. It was I have a lot of gray hairs behind it. I have my head on, so you can't see, but it was really difficult to navigate. And then it's I had no one that looked like me that went through that process, right? And there was no program for A. P. I. folks that's coming out to have that support. And I'm so grateful for Asian Prison Support Committee for giving me that, for opening that door for me to learn this process, but also to receive the help. And I think for me, the highlight like Bun named a lot of the great stuff. I think for me, the it's my way of maKeng amends for the harm that I caused. That's why I do this work. I can, I could have left this job for a really good trade job, get great money, maKeng six figures a year, but I'm like, I need to get back, because that, this is my way of healing myself, not just the other person, it's just, it's Kend selfish to say that. But I if I can't heal myself, how can I help heal the next person? And that's why I do this work. And I remember one of the guys I picked up from immigration, he's he had a choice of his family and us, formerly incarcerated folks, to pick him up. And he's I'm grateful for you guys to pick me up. And I'm like, why? He said, because you guys understand me. You guys understand if my family came, it would have been a such a disconnect with them because they wouldn't understand it was like you have to do this, you have to do that. And then this is what you should do is but for us like we know what to do, and then we understand like choices, being incarcerated for decades and coming out like choices is really difficult for us, people tell what do you want, and we like, I don't know. We was limited to what we had inside. And so that's why I keep doing this work. Like with the rest of them, it's like giving back, but also at the same time healing. We're on this healing journey together.  Cheryl: I know I only said two people, but I really watched the way Maria's eyes fricKen sparkled when I asked this question. Maria, I want to know what has been the most rewarding part of worKeng at APSC?  Maria: Am I that I'm easily read? No, because the one thing and he and by with no we had a client, she had a drug past these two, she was, she had a, oh my god, I said that backwards past drug use. And she worked on actually worKeng on getting her substance abuse, counseling. So we help her get through it online classes register for her use gift cards to get that online classes paid like every avenue that we could think of we helped her get that in the same time. She was trying to get custody of all her children. And so walKeng her through her online classes and being there by her side, like just cheering her on, you can do this. And so with her heart and mind into it, she was able to do it. She graduated. She finished it. And at the same time it was just getting hit with left and right with different problems, around getting custody of her child children. But because she has the support of a PSE. She said, I would have never been able to get through all this if not for your weekly calls that you check up on us. It doesn't matter whether it's me, whether it's Ke, Bun, because it's a, it's an effort, a team effort, right? Me and Bun would go there when she needed us, as a support. And so when she finally finished her school she was able to go to an internship. And now she works for another nonprofit organization, and she actually refers clients to us now because she became a substance use counselor. And then on top of that, gained custody of her three Keds. How much more work an AP has to do, right? With family reunification, that's what it's all about. It doesn't matter what your past was, it matters like how you're going to move forward. Yeah, your past, they're always going to bring it up, right? Because you have a record. But what they're not going to be able to take away from you is what you go from this point on, from that abusive relationship, and you were able to take it out, and you're able to do something with your life and get your Keds back, and now you have a home for them. That's what the work is about. It's not just about helping people, when they first come home, but it's that care that you nurture them in their journey. That's why our job is not eight to five, unfortunately, and it doesn't, our job doesn't stop after six months. They become family to us and that's really what APSC is about, and that's one of the joys seeing her graduate, become a counselor and have her Keds back. So that's our APSC, one of our stories, our re entry stories that really we talk about it all the time.  Cheryl: I could speak the praises of the incredible work that APSC 4. Does forever. But until then we have to take a quick music break. To our listeners. If you take anything away after hearing these stories, it's that we need to collectively demand that governor Newsome, pardons APSC 4 for. Formerly incarcerated leaders like the APSC four are at the heart of our movement. They're compassion and resiliance inspire us all to create change in our communities. And yet despite their work and transformation. Maria Key bun and PJ remain in this immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ice and deported. Uh, deporting APS. Core staff would devastate our community.  So please join me in urging governor Newsome to take action now to pardon APC for. To protect them from deportation by going to this link. bit.ly/APSC4 for all in capital letters. It'll also be linked in our show notes.  Once again, the link is bit.ly/APSC4 this is an all capital letters. This is a direct link to the APC for action toolkit, which will give you different action items you can do to join us in. The fight to part in APC for. There's a call script for governor Gavin Newsome. Demanding the protection of APC for there are sample tweets you can send out. There is a petition. You can sign there also graphics you can share on social media. So please, please check out this link. You could even do this during our music break. Once again, the link is bit.ly/APSC4 N all capital letters. When we come back, we're going to be tackling broader issues and systemic change.  So don't go anywhere.   Cheryl: And we're back. You were listening to apex express on 94.1, FM KPFA and online@kpfa.org. You were just listening to change the world by baby Chris. We have currently with members of APS C. Maria Key PJ and bun. And the first half of the show, we delved into their personal stories, struggles and advocacy efforts. But in order to give you all a comprehensive understanding of their stories. We need to talk about the broader systemic dynamics that are at play. So let's dive back in.   Bun: For me immigration need to look at what we've been through and also what California said, we got a second chance. We earned our second chance. We have proven that we are change, and we, APSE4, have proven that coming back to the community, we are an asset to our community. I think they need to really look into that. Folks that have been have proved themselves through the board, through finishing their term, that we all deserve a second chance. If a citizen deserves a second chance, why not us? And what is the difference, other than we were born somewhere else? Our lives, our family, our communities here. So yeah, they need to really look into what a second chance  Ke: mean. I don't think there's anyone in the world that has not made a bad choice in their life or a mistake. Like to be defined by the worst day of your life for the rest of your life. Like, how is that just, especially in a country that is You know, the pillar of human rights, we say who built America, immigrants built America. How do we make America great again? We save our immigrant and refugee community. That's how we make America great again. It's not by, I look at it when you put people through the immigration system, it's like slavery all over again. Prisons, no different. It's like slavery all over again. If we talk about humanity, we talk about a just system. We talk about second chances. We talk about people. These are people that are incarcerated, not numbers, not products. not just a person that made a terrible choice, these are people, mother, father, grandfather, aunties until we start seeing people as people, we will continue to dehumanize them. And yeah, yes, we made some bad choices in our life. But at the same time, like Bunce said, we are redeemable. Just give us that second chance to show you. And that's what APSC's Board has been doing. We've been showing everyone that we, yeah, we own it. We, yeah, we take accountability for what we've done. At the same time we're showing you that we're not that same person anymore. And put it out there for everyone is yes, look at, don't always look at the harm that people cause, but look at the reason why they made that choice. And if you understand where they came from, it'll tell you why they did what they did, but also you give them that chance, they can show you that they can make a difference. Yeah, I know like  Peejay: the way I see life now, and this is Kend of like mind boggling to me because a lot of people like are conservative or very smart. We're educated. And then, to me, it's if you truly value peace, right? You truly value people's lives. Community, right? You have to treat everyone equally, the same, right? We start treating people differently, you create division, that's how you divide us. California isn't supposed to be a state that is full of division, it's supposed to be, the value is that we're all together, right? We're from all walks of life, and a melting pot, right? Of cultural and diversity, and that's what makes it so amazing and beautiful, and you can find anything here in California from any part of the world. Like we made California an amazing place, right? So then, like, when you see about the anti Asian hate, like, all the movement about solidarity, then you turn around and say, okay we're going to treat these people differently and just deport them because they committed a crime, but then we're going to say, like, all these other people, they redeemed themselves, too, but we're going to give them another chance, to me, that would make no sense, right? You're creating division, we're people, we should treat everybody the same. And we all have, it's not like we didn't earn it, we're not talKeng about giving people a chance to give a chance we're giving people a chance to earn a chance. And then we have proven ourselves. And I think that's a testament, like I'm going to keep living my life the way I live my life. I'm going to keep pushing and helping people because that's what I'm meant to do. And I don't think that's going to change me no matter what people think of me, but I think if people really put money where their mouth is, then they should really more solidarity, like watching people differently when we're trying to bring people together. I don't know. That's, maybe that's too simple, but to me, it's no brainer, if you want to pull us all dirty, then do it. Stop talKeng about it,  Cheryl: maria, did you have anything you wanted to add?  Maria: I second everything that Bun, Ke, and Peejay mentioned, second chance is, to me, it's, we weren't born here, right? But, our community is we're helping our community become safe. We're helping our community thrive, and I'll look at that. Cheryl: I  Maria: got distracted, but they would someone that never had a conviction, what are you doing to help your community thrive? So the only difference between me, but he and Peejay is that we had a conviction. But we're here to serve our community, and yet at any given day, he can just pick us up and deport us. And then what happens, who's going to continue to work, because like I said, our jobs not eight to five, and it doesn't last a six month program. It's a lifetime. No. So who's willing to pick up that responsibility, because we are. So I hope that, in the near future, like the policies and the immigration see past the conviction. And see us that we matter, took us a long time to regain that work to believe in our own worth, because we're now we know what our value is, and we fight for our freedom to stay here to not get sent back to a country we've never been in, because now we know what our value is. We know our community values us, our family holds us dear. And without our work in the community, who's going to save the children, the youth, who's going to help the elders, who's going to bridge that gap, because there are more and more people that's going to be in and out of the system. And who's going to help them. And that's, that's my hope that, one day they see us as equals, and not just. immigrants who are not born here.  Cheryl: I hope that by this, after hearing all of these incredible stories of APSC4, you all know how important and integral that Boone, Peejay, Maria, Ke are to our community. I know just from my own experience that They are core members of my own community, and I don't know where our community would be without them. Learn more about PartinAPSC4 in the show notes. I want to thank all of you so much for coming on our show tonight. Thank you all so much for being here, for sharing your stories, and for continuing this really incredible work that y'all are doing. Yeah, we'll see you on the next show. Thanks, everyone! Thank you, have a good night!  Ke: Alright, bye!  And that's the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Apsu for, by checking out the show notes. Don't forget that the APC for action toolkit is also available at the link bit dot Lee slash APC. that's the number for all capital letters. And it's also available in our show notes as well.  And also don't forget to check out the new anthology published by Asian prisoner support committee. APC called arrival freedom, writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders. This anthology was several years in the making.  And offer us an intimate insight into the lived experiences of AAPI communities, entangled within the criminal legal system and immigration. From tales of resilience, amiss adversity to profound reflections on identity and belonging, arrival explores themes of war, memory, prison, transformation, healing, and the pursuit of home.  This is available for purchase at Eastwind books of Berkeley. www.asia book, center.com.  Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening! The post APEX Express – July 11, 2024 appeared first on KPFA.

This week on the Retail Perch, Shekar and Gary are thrilled to host Kausambi Manjita, who divides her time between Bangalore and Toronto. She is the Co-founder of Mason, a provider of AI-powered customer service solutions. They discuss a unique perspective on the intersection of technology and customer experience, geographic consumer behavior, generative AI, and much more.

On this week's episode of the Retail Perch, Gary and Shekar are joined by Nirit Cohen, all the way from Israel. Nirit is an HR specialist and founder of WorkFutures. The three of them engage in a dynamic discussion with the about the future of the workforce, exploring topics such as evolving flexibility for employees and much more.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   A teach-in by Queer Crescent in collaboration with Palestinian Feminist Collective – Palestine is a Queer Issue: Resisting Pinkwashing Now and Until Liberation. Featuring guest speakers Rabab Abdulhadi from Palestinian Feminist Collective, Ghadir Shafie of ASWAT, Shivani Chanillo from Lavender Phoenix, poetry by Mx Yaffa from Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity (MASGD). Moderator by Shenaaz Janmohamed of Queer Crescent. Important Links and Resources: Sign on to Queer Crescent's Ceasefire Campaign for LGBTQI+ organizations and leaders Queer Crescent's Pinkwashing Resources  Queer Crescent Website Palestinian Feminist Collective Website ASWAT Instagram (@aswatfreedoms) Lavender Phoenix Website Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity (MASGD) Website Purchase Blood Orange by Mx. Yaffa Transcript Shenaaz Janmohamed: Thank you all so much for being here today. Welcome to the “Resisting Pinkwashing Now Until Liberation” teach-in. Queer Crescent is honored to host this teach in in partnership with the Palestinian Feminist Collective, Lavender Phoenix, The Muslim Alliance for Gender and Sexual Diversity or MASGD, Teaching Palestine, and Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diaspora Studies   Thank you all so much for joining us and for tuning in. My name is Shenaaz Janmohamed. I use she and they pronouns. I'm the executive director of Queer Crescent.  Queer Crescent is really thrilled to offer this Teach-in and to be in learning with you all for the next hour and a half on Pinkwashing in particular, as we hold grief and rage and mourn towards healing, towards resistance, towards a free Palestine. Joining the resounding people all across the world who have been calling for a permanent ceasefire. To not let the violence and the destruction of Gaza go without our clear and determined voice to say that this is not okay, that we, our tax dollars should not be paying for this, that we do not consent to genocide. And as queer people, as trans people, it is very much a queer issue to be in solidarity with Palestine. For the next hour and a half we will take time to learn from Palestinian organizers. in Palestine, in the U. S., around the ways in which this moment can be used to understand our relationship to pinkwashing in particular and to Palestinian solidarity in general. And so thank you again for being with us today. We're going to start our Teach in with poetry, because we deeply believe as a queer Muslim organization in the power of cultural work, cultural change, and imparting our shine as queer people into the culture. That is the way that our people have survived. That is the way that people share their histories their survivalship is through culture. And so, before I bring up Yaffa, who's a dear friend and comrade, and also the executive director of MASGD, the Muslim Alliance for Gender and Sexual Diversity, let me introduce Yaffa. Yaffa is a trans Muslim and displaced indigenous Palestinian. She is sharing poetry from her new book, Blood Orange, shout it out, please get a copy if you haven't already, which is an emotional, important, and timely poetry collection. Their writings probe the yearning for home, belonging, mental health, queerness, transness, and other dimensions of marginalization while nurturing dreams of utopia against the background of ongoing displacement and genocide of Indigenous people. Join me in giving some shine, energetic shine to Yaffa, and I'll pass to you. Mx Yaffa: Hi everyone. It's so nice to be here with you all. So excited to share space with all of you, with all the incredible panelists, with the entire Queer Crescent team, y'all are just incredible. Right before this, me and one of the other panelists realized we could potentially be related. So that's the beauty of having spaces like this, where you connect with people that you've kind of been missing your entire life, but you didn't even know that they were missing. I'm excited to recite some poetry for you all from my new collection. Just a little bit about the collection before I recite some poetry.  This collection was written for the most part, on the weekend of October 13th to the 15th. Some of y'all might remember that there was an eclipse during that weekend. And I really wanted to find something that would really center queer and trans Palestinian experience in particular, and also would just support me in navigating my own processing of everything that's going on.  I have family both in Gaza and the West Bank still. I'm originally from Jaffa and Jenin, but I've kind of lived in nine different countries. So when I say I'm displaced, it's displacement from various different wars, various genocides, various everything. And the result of that was Blood Orange.  I tried to get it out as quickly as possible and here we are. The first poem that I'll read is called “Healthy”. And I'll talk a little bit about each of these poems after I read them. It's called “Healthy”. We are not meant to be okay, when genocide is our neighbor that is funded by our labor. We are meant to be a mess, our sleep tearing into reality, anxiety brewing, wondering what is hope. We are meant to tear at the seams of reality, realizing a reality built on oppression is bullshit. We are meant to realize and demand all we are worth. Self actualization, wholeness. Things systems built off of genocide can never. Our response labeled by western capitalism as wrong is healthy. We move to wholeness always, they move to pain attempting to drag us with them. So this was actually the very first poem that I wrote for this collection and it was in that first week of the genocide immediately following October 7th when so many people were really struggling with what do we do with all of this, right? We're witnessing an entire genocide right before our eyes. And what do we do? There was a lot of hopelessness going around and a lot of narratives, at least in what's known as the United States and the global north that's always told us that all of that is wrong. That we're not supposed to be overwhelmed by things. But for me, with all the practices that I have, it's actually healthy to be overwhelmed right now. We're not supposed to know how to let genocide live in our bodies with ease. We still show up, we still do the things, and yet at the same time, we honor it. That it is a large experience. This is not normal. This is not something that should be happening all the time or ever. And so really wanted to honor that of the world that we live in is not what we deserve. For us to be overwhelmed right now is actually healthy, is where we should be. So the second poem I will read kind of goes into the conversation of today around pinkwashing.  This one's called “At Odds”.  My transness and a colonized perception of Palestine are at odds. They think it's because of lack of modernity. I say I have only received death threats targeting my transness from white people, Zionists, and other various political affiliations. I say only white people around me have ever disowned their own. Yet I do not talk to sisters who choose to buy into imperialist transphobia, claiming it as their own. My parents do not understand how some of their children could hate anything any of their children could be, why anyone would hate what they do not know. I won't talk much about pinkwashing because I know we'll get to that today. But in particular, most queer and trans Palestinians over these last eight weeks have been receiving such immense violence from the broader LGBTQ community telling us that our people are the ones who are going to kill us. I've been receiving death threats my entire life in particular as an organizer since I was 19, and I have literally never received a death threat from anyone from our region from any Muslim person. It has always been white people who have sent me death threats specifically for my queerness and my transness. Let alone everything else. And so that, that poem just kind of honors that experience.  I'll read one more, and I'll say just a few words before I read this last one. For me, the arts are so important. Not just as a tool for resistance, but also as a tool for world building. Often we think of the world is what creates art, rather than art is what creates the world. If you look at literature, even with Zionism, Zionism was in literature 100 years before it was ever named. I think about that of what is the world that we are building, what is the world of tomorrow that we get to write about and paint about and do all different kinds of art forms about today. And so this last poem kind of brings a little bit of that into it. The collection goes into the topic of utopia as we're exploring all of these other things. and as we're experiencing this genocide. So this last poem is called “Land Back”. I do not know names wiped from time in Gaza Like I do not remember the names Of great uncles and aunts Who have been reclaimed by our land To say they were murdered Is to claim loss that our land will never feel For we are made of her And regardless of how many layers of phosphor fill the air We return to her in our deaths They may exacerbate the process of our return, but return we shall. Standing thousands of miles away, I know even here she will take me back for distance is a creation that is buried with bodies that were never ours. We are not the ones who take land back, it is land that takes us. There will come a day when the sun sets on a world and rises in another, when indigenous sovereignty is honored. Where queerness no longer exists, where transness is no longer an identity, where humanity means something genuine. So I wanted to end with that, on a note of everything that we're doing right now, all of the resistance is world building. We're building the world that we have always deserved. So I'll leave you all with just one final thing about the book, like I mentioned, the reason I wrote this book in the first place and published it is to raise awareness about queer and trans Palestinians in particular and our experiences, and also to fundraise for queer and trans Palestinians both on the grounds in Gaza and in the diaspora. So 100 percent of all the proceeds from Blood Orange go directly towards that.   As we're getting deeper and deeper into this, the needs of the queer and trans Palestinian community is getting so immense, both on the ground in the region and in the diaspora. Over just the last few days, I've received over $20,000 worth of requests from individuals because people are being doxed, people are receiving death threats, people are losing their jobs. In one case, people are losing their children. There's a lot happening. And so just wanted to leave with that. I want to invite you all to pay attention to those needs and honor them, especially as we go into next year and into the elections. Thank you again for having me. It was such a pleasure to be here. And I'm so excited for the rest of this. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Thank you so much, Yaffa. It's so wonderful to have you here. And it feels so important to start our teaching with the ways in which poetry, culture, moves and inspires us. It opens our hearts in ways that feel both healing and necessary as part and parcel to our organizing and our deep learning. As my comrade and partner Saba says, to growing our empathy to be able to show up with more depth, more commitment, and more resolve towards these issues because we are deeply interconnected. So thank you again, Yaffa..  Before I turn to introduce our other panelists, I wanted to just ground us for a moment in why Queer Crescent, along with the many partners that I named at the beginning felt it was important to host this teach in. Back on November 3rd, Queer Crescent in collaboration with the Palestinian Feminist Collective drafted and released a letter calling upon LGBTQI organizations, leaders, and influencers to join Queer Crescent and Palestinians in calling for an immediate ceasefire. And in particularly to take up understanding and resisting pinkwashing as a queer issue. The frame ” Palestine is a queer issue” is very much an homage of Palestinian Feminist Collective who tirelessly make the links around gender justice, bodily autonomy, self determination, sovereignty to the project of Palestinian liberation. Seeing them as part and parcel of the same project of liberation, and we very much are inspired and in deep gratitude to PFC and all the tireless folks who make those links so clear and apparent to us. We are also in deep gratitude to organizations like Al-Qaws, based in Palestine, who have been telling us about pink- washing for a long, long time, and we are finally doing our part to answer the call as an organization as Queer Crescent. Since we shared this letter, over 350 individuals have signed on, over 65 organizations have joined us in a commitment to calling for permanent ceasefire. This teach in is part of our commitment to moving those who have signed, ourselves included, and the many others who have joined us today. To deepen our shared resolve to a free Palestine through learning about pink watching as a propaganda tool of Israel and settler colonial state violence, and to allow this moment to transform us so that the grief is not in vain, towards a more fierce committed and clear stance of solidarity with Palestinian liberation movement. As queer and trans people and within LGBTQI organizations, we have a distinct role to play to organize to undermine pinkwashing. Because pinkwashing works and functions on the backs of racist tropes of Palestinians, Arabs, SWANA, and Muslims more broadly. We cannot let our vulnerabilities as trans and queer people be exploited in the pursuit of colonial violence and the genocide against Palestinians and all indigenous people. It was not surprising that some of the first folks who signed on to our letter were trans led organizations like the Transgender Law Center, like El/La, and indigenous organizations. It's not surprising because I think for folks who are leading trans led organizations, Trans and indigenous organizations, the relationship of self determination of bodily autonomy and to state violence and colonization is clear, right? Because ultimately colonization uses gender injustice and creating these wedges within our communities as a way to dampen our resistance and to keep us apart. So, I don't want to say more because our amazing speakers will speak and illuminate so much more of these issues. But I wanted to just state why it was important for Queer Crescent to support advancing these conversations. So, our first speaker today is Ghadir Shafie ( she and her). She is a Palestinian queer activist and the co founder of ASWAT, Palestinian Feminist Queer Center for Sexual and Gender Freedoms. A passionate advocate for the intersectionality of the struggle of Palestinian queer women, fighting multiple forms of oppression as Palestinians in the context of Israel's system of apartheid, military occupation, and settler colonialism, as women in a militaristic and imperialistic male dominated society, and as queers in the context of pinkwashing and homophobia. Ghadir promotes active solidarity for Palestine through global feminism and with queers. Thank you, Ghadir. Pass it to you.  Ghadir Shafie: Thank you so much. Hello from Palestine. Thank you so much for organizing this teach-in on pinkwashing. I am grateful for your presence here with me, witnessing in this horrible, horrible time. I will speak today for about 15 minutes, and I want you to bear in mind that since October 7th, Israel has killed over 18, 000 Palestinians. That is one Palestinian every 15 minutes. Imagine how many queer people are being killed daily by Israel. The scenes from Gaza are beyond description. They defy comparison, even for Palestinians, jaded by decades of occupation and settler colonial violence. Devastated landscape filled with craters and the blackened ruins of what were once people's homes, dead bodies or pieces of them. Orphaned children screaming in terror and incomprehension. Desperate survivors crying for food and water. Doctors despairing at the ever growing influx of wounded people they know they cannot treat. As a queer Palestinian watching these images of horror, one stood out as particularly revolting in a rather different way. It shows an Israeli soldier in the middle of the rubble of one of the many residential neighborhoods in Gaza, flattened by the Israeli indiscriminate military strikes. In the distance, smoke from Israel's carpet bombings hang in the air. The soldier is surrounded by Israeli tanks and demolish everything in their way. It is a scene of death and destruction The soldier stands holding a bright new rainbow flag. and Described it as a message of hope.  What hope can there be for 2.3 million Palestinians trapped over 16 years in the occupied and besieged Gaza Strip. In the words of UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres, Gaza has become a graveyard for Palestinians. They have no water. No food and no electricity as Israel has cut off what little it allowed in through its already suffocating siege. They seek shelter from Israeli bombings in hospital, UN schools, mosques, and churches, only to find these sites targeted by Israeli strikes. Those who can flee their homes along Israeli designated safe corridors only to have their vehicles shelved by the Israeli IDF soldiers. It seems incomprehensible that an Israeli soldier would pose a photo with a rainbow flag while participating in his army's mass slaughter of Palestinians and destruction of half of Gaza's homes. The truth is more sinister yet. This stunt, which was shared online by the Israeli state official social media accounts, is a textbook. example of obscene colonial pinkwashing. More than that, it is a pinkwashing on steroids. For years, Palestinian queers have denounced Israel's pinkwashing, a cynical strategy designed to use self proclaimed support for LGBTQIA plus rights as a pink smokescreen to conceal its 75 years regime of apartheid, which oppresses all Palestinians, no matter of our gender. or sexual orientation. All the while singling out queer Palestinians for persecution and blackmail. It is an attempt to falsely depict Israel as modern and a liberal country while diverting attention from its alignment with far right homophobic regimes and groups around the world and its current fundamentalist, racist, and homophobic government. In addition, Israel's pinkwashing agenda is a colonial tool that has the racist aim to misrepresent Palestinians as backwards, homophobic, and thus not deserving of human rights. It also tries to convince us, as queer and trans people, that we are somehow foreign in our society, and tries to turn us against our Palestinians brothers and sisters. I think there couldn't be any better example of Israeli pink washing than the photo that the Israeli soldier with the rainbow flag in the rubble. Israeli pink washing has always been dishonest and dangerous. It has always been racist and colonial. It has allowed Israel to continue its ethnic cleansing, besiege, imprisonment, and murder of Palestinians, queer and non queer alike, for decades. Now it's being used to cover up for genocide. In these dark times, Palestinians in besieged Gaza are bearing the brunt of Israel's full blown genocidal war and ethnic cleansing. Palestinians in the occupied Palestinian territories of West Bank, meanwhile, are also facing escalating waves of killing, torture by both Israeli military and illegal sectors. Apartheid, for Palestinians like myself inside Israel, is reaching new peaks as Israeli forces are targeting and suppressing any expression of sympathy with the oppressed. As hard as it is, we still maintain hope. We have no other choice. That hope comes from the grassroots mobilization that are forcing complicit governments and institutions to finally call for the bare minimum that is nevertheless the absolute priority: a ceasefire that will put a stop to Israel's carpet bombing and genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. Queer groups have been extremely instrumental in our struggle for liberation. Queer groups have been an important part of the mobilizations. Nearly 40 LGBT, QA plus groups across Southwest Asia and North Africa called for the immediate ceasefire stating ” we stand with justice, equality, progress, and liberty.” Throughout my life as a queer activist, I have proudly held the rainbow flag high as a symbol of queer inclusion, queer struggle, queer liberation, queer equality, and queer joy. The Israeli soldier participating in Israel's genocidal war on my people in Gaza has desecrated the flag, has disgraced the flag, and made it a mockery for all it stands for. Queer and trans people and groups are increasingly seeing through the pink smokescreen and rejecting Israel's pinkwashing and its war crimes and crimes against humanity. We will not stand by as our flag and our identities are co opted and used to justify a genocide. I call upon queer allies around the globe to remember none of us is free until we are all free. What can we do right now in these terrible times? Since 2005, Palestinians have proposed to you, our friends around the world, an entirely nonviolent method of ending Israel's power over our lives. An academic and cultural boycott of Israel. This strategy is known as BDS, Boycott, Digestment and Sanctions. BDS means boycotting all Israeli state sponsored institutions. This is not aimed at individuals, but at institutions financed by the state and that serve as extensions of the government that occupies us and keeps us under siege. We ask academics, staff and students not to speak at Israeli state funding organizations, including universities. We ask artists and cultural workers not to perform in apartheid Israel. Make sure that your universities are divested from Israeli money. Do not take israeli money for your conferences or film festivals. Do not accept deceptively free propaganda trips to Israel. End complicity with the government of Israel by among other things, cancelling all joint projects activities that are complicit with Israeli universities. Right now, the main demand is to stop the genocide. Stop the genocide and ask for ceasefire now.  So how can queer groups and queer people support queer liberation in Palestine?. One effort that is happening right now around the world is Queer Cinema for Palestine. Queer cinema for Palestine is a vibrant event that happens globally, established in 2021 to support queer art and queer cinema around the world. Today, there are more than 270 filmmakers and artists who signed our pledge to boycott Israeli film festival, to boycott Israeli institutions, and support queer liberation in Palestine. Queer Cinema for Palestine is happening online in more than 15 locations around the world from the 2nd until the 10th of December. Under the title, There's No Pride in Genocide, we gather together as artists to support, Queer Cinema for Palestine and the Palestinian struggle for liberation. There's not much to say. I think you've seen the image from Gaza. You've seen what is happening right now. This is not a regular panel on pinkwashing. It's happening during a genocide, where pinkwashing is also used to promote genocide. So, may I ask you as a Palestinian and as a queer Palestinian, please keep talking about Palestine. Palestine is a queer issue. Gaza is a queer issue, and there's no queer justice until we are all free. Thank you so much for organizing this and thank you so much for your work and activism on Palestine. You are saving lives right now. Thank you. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Thank you so much, Ghadir. Thank you so much for your passion, your commitment, reminding us that hope is an active choice that you're engaging in every day, despite all the odds, because that is the story of survival. Thank you for reminding and being so clear in the link to BDS boycott, divestment and sanction movement as tangible ways that we could be in solidarity with Palestine and to chip at the far reaching power of the Israeli state and settler colonial project. Thank you for showing the ways in which queer folks and queer organizations. use culture and art to tell different stories of survival with the Queer Cinema for Palestine. And thank you for showing up and being here with us. Thank you for all the ways that you hold communities, your fullness, and time to share and to lead us today. Wishing so much protection and safety to you and yours. Next we have Rabab Abdulhadi. Rabab Abdulhadi (she/her) is an internationally known scholar and distinguished professor and researcher. Her scholarship, pedagogy, and public activism focus on Palestine, Arab, and Muslim communities and their diasporas, transnational feminisms, and gender and sexuality studies. She is the Director and Senior Scholar in the Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diaspora Studies, and a Associate Professor of Ethnic Studies, Race and Resistance Studies at the Historic College of Ethnic Studies, San Francisco State University. She is also a treasure, a beloved teacher, organizer here in the Bay. I feel really grateful that you're here with us today for all the work, all the times that you've taught me. It's really such an honor to be able to host you and invite you in, Rabab.  Rabab Abdulhadi: Thank you so much Shenaaz, and I begin by acknowledging that my own university, San Francisco State University, sits on stolen indigenous Ohlone people's land, and I'm now on the east coast of the United States, where I am also present on the Lenape people's land that has been stolen and people have been displaced, just like it is in Palestine. I also want to thank Queer Crescent for organizing this with the Palestinian Feminist Collective and actually joining with Palestinian Voices. I'm very happy that my colleague, my sister, my sibling, Ghadir, was able to join us and has actually taken a lot of the things that I was going to focus on, and thank you, Yaffa, for especially naming even the poetry, Blood Oranges, because we know what oranges mean and how they have been used. And many Palestinians can't even eat oranges because it reminds them of the orchards that they've lost back home. So I start, if you don't mind, just Putting the first slide on. Yeah. And this is a slide if people can see it. This is actually was done in 2013 and it was organized by a group of underground artists, called themselves cultural jammers, to remake all the campaign that was at the time by Pamela Geller and other Zionist groups doing all this smearing and buying sides on the buses and so on. And the reason I mentioned because there is a connection between the cultural jammers and also the whole naming of pink washing because pink washing, some people say, emerged in Palestine. Some people say it emerged in the U. S. Some people talk about the whole question of washing and then the question of pink and so on. And I think for me as a researcher, a scholar, it's very, very interesting because there are so many origins of every single way that we are having the struggles. And so the colonial boundaries and borders that the colonialists and settler colonists try to impose upon us don't really work because we cross these borders at least maybe imaginary, maybe in our networks and so on. But why is it that pinkwashing persists? Ghadir spoke a lot about it. I'm just going to just emphasize a couple of things. It is necessary, very important for Israel public relations. Public relations is a very important project for it. This is why Israel consistently demands of the Palestinians and the Arab countries and the world, not only to recognize Israel's right to exist, but to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, which in itself a very racist notion. And this is very much connected with the genocide that we're seeing now in Gaza, that also we have seen for 75 years of Nakba and for over 100 years of colonization of Palestine, because , the slogan by the Zionist movement was “a land without people, for a people without the land.” We can talk about “for people without the land” a little bit later, but let's talk about “a land without people”. In order to accomplish that and legitimize it, you have to arrest the people. You have to erase them. You have to erase their presence. You have to also discredit their discourse, their work, their culture, their interaction, their social relations, in order for you to present yourself as Israel does. And as Ghadir mentioned, as a modern state that is making the desert blue, which we know is not true, and by contrast, is the best friend of women and queer people, as a gay haven, as opposed to quote unquote the backward, savage. excessively homophobic, excessively misogynist, Arab world, Arab and Muslim world, and in which Arab men and Arab and Muslim and Palestinian men are presented as irrational, bloodthirsty, misogynist, haters of women and Queer people, and as women as being docile, as being only oppressed constantly, and need to be rescued by the colonists who will come in and basically realize what Gayatri Spivak spoke about I don't know, 30 years ago, the colonist project of trying to save brown people from brown communities and queer people from their own queer communities. And so in order for this to work, it has to be presented in all of these things that it is necessary. And it's very important for Israel to focus on its public relations. And this is something that has been actually very part and parcel of since the foundation of the state of Israel in 1948, a task that was assigned to the military, to the security of interior affairs to the Mossad, which is the CIA, outside intelligence, Shambit, the internal intelligence to everybody. And now we see more and more the Ministry of Strategic Affairs and other is, and the whole question of quote unquote branding, which I put it in parentheses because branding also refers to the ways in which people engage in slavery actually used to quote brand people whose lives they owned. So I put it in parentheses. I question it. But Israel is very big on that to brand Israel as a gay haven. Israel as a best liberator of women and so on.  This is also what we see today in the sense of Israel actually making a very public relation campaign and a very, very intensive campaign to claim that Palestinians have chopped off the head of children, which was even reiterated by the president of the United States without even thinking about it because he was quoting Israeli Officials who we know are not really known for telling the truth and then they had to retract it the second day but yesterday he repeated the same thing again and said there is the rape of women and so on which we do not have any evidence until now. We know that a lot of Israeli groups and Zionist groups like this group Bonat Alternativa and others are alleging, but we haven't seen any evidence of that. If there is any evidence of that, we will not stand for it. We condemn any kind of violations of gender and sexual, justice because we believe that gender and sexual justice is part and parcel with indivisibility of justice. So this is not something we are trying to cover, but this is very much part and parcel of the Israeli propaganda and it's churning machine, the Hasbara machine is everywhere and they keep changing their stories. And if we have time we can actually go over how each story has developed and moved from one place to the other. I'm also talking about the ways in which colonial feminisms or colonial quote unquote feminism, because feminism is supposed to be about the liberation of women as part of liberation of everybody, have been very much engaged in. But within that, there is also notion of blaming the victim. It is a very important aspect of it. So in order for the Israeli and the Zionist narrative to work, you have to blame people. And one of the very well known cases, for example, was the case of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, the young Palestinian teenager who was kidnapped from in front of his house on July 2nd, 2014, right around the big, big 2014 war on Gaza we talked about, and kidnapped by Israeli settlers who took him to a forest in Jerusalem that was built on the ruins of the village of Deir Yassin, where the massacre on April 8th, 1948 happened in order to facilitate the creation of the Israeli state. And they made him drink kerosene and set him on fire and burned him alive, which was a clear case of lynching. Now, what Israeli police tried to do was to actually say that Mohammed Abu Khdeir was killed by his own family to quote unquote salvage family honor. And they killed him because he was queer. And now if it wasn't for his father who had videotapes of the security cameras outside of the house and showed it– the Israeli police tried to confiscate it and basically destroy it– showed that these people came and kidnapped him. The relative would still be among colonists, among racists, among white supremacists, Zionists, that Palestinians are killing Palestinians and they are doing this all the time. So it's not only blaming the victim, but it also instilling and reinforcing the narrative of people, not only Palestinians, this happens with all indigenous and all colonized communities and all communities of color from time immemorial. You look at the history of the United States, this is something, this is a trope that keeps getting repeated again and again and again. And it's not an easy trope because It is not something that's only being said. It's not only a discursive issue. It's not a discursive issue that we need to deconstruct in the classroom because we know the history, including that. But recently, many people started learning more about the case of Emmett Till, the young Boy who was killed and the woman who actually accused him came out and said that she lied, but he was killed and he was lynched. And then his mom insisted on having open casket so everybody could see the crime. And there's so many more examples that we don't have time to get into all of them now, but this is part of the colonial narrative, the colonial strategy in order to discredit the people who are colonized and discredit their struggle.  And this is definitely a part in Gaza and it is, but the other thing is that it depends on the narrative of saying that our communities in particular as exceptionally sensitive and exceptionally traditional. And this is something that we saw in Abu Ghraib for example.  When they were talking about, we're not going to show the images of iraqi men are particularly insensitive. But we were raising the question, which men are okay with it, which women, which anybody, which non gender binary person, who would be okay with being subjected to sexual and gender violence; to being displaced like this and so on. Nobody will be. But the imaginary that it is trying to instill that's built on Orientalist, Islamophobic, anti Arab, anti Palestinian, anti Muslim racism as part and parcel of all kinds of racism basically makes it possible to do a little dog whistle in order for you to enforce all of this. We saw this also at the US Social Forum when Zionist groups stand with us, which now everybody knows what it is, tried to do a workshop around queer communities in the Middle East, and many of us objected to it. And the reason that it got through because the organizers thought that this would be something that would be actually really wonderful, bringing everybody together. They did not really investigate who this group was and what it was doing and did not coordinate with the many organizations that were at the U. S. Social Forum in 2010 in Detroit from our own community to see what is happening, what's going on, are you part of this unparceled hat? Even though the Palestinian queer organizations have existed for a very long time, and I think it was by then, if I'm not mistaken, Ghadir you can correct me that we organize a national tour and for all calls throughout the U S in order for people to speak and you all came and spoke in my own classroom. This is part of the stuff that keeps going back. And this is also the same thing that we hear around this group that I've mentioned now, and this propaganda that's happening, and also in terms of the ways when we passed the resolution on BDS in the National Women's Studies Association 2015, many Zionist groups came out and basically came with the whole question is there a place for Zionism and feminism? Many of the feminist groups have been targeted, including the International Women's Strike and so on. This is a continuous, systemic, persistent thing. This is not something that is out of random or accidental. And so what do we do about this? In addition to what Ghadir said, I think it's really, really important for us to say, how do we fight back? We fight back with multiple ways. One of the ways we do for example, organizing this in the classroom. So one of the things that we do in the Arab and Muslim Ethnicity and Diaspora Studies program ever since we were founded in 2007 is every single year we were partnering with the Pride Month at San Francisco State to organize sessions on the whole question of queer justice, and this is one of them. Even after San Francisco State stopped funding pride month, we continue doing it again and again. We believe that it's really important to connect the knowledge within the classroom with the knowledge outside and with the activism and advocacy. We do not separate what happens in the classroom, what happens in the academy from outside. So the academy is not producing knowledge that is divorced from reality. The people who are organizing are part and parcel of that. And so we've been doing this again and again. The other thing that is really, really important to think about is how do we work here, and I'm talking here in the diaspora, with groups on the ground, Palestinian queer groups who are working? So one of the examples that I would like to cite from our own experiences is when Al-Qaws was attacked by Palestinian police in Nablus trying to hold an event. My hometown Nablus. We were going to rush and say something, but we waited and we coordinated with Al Qaws and we asked, what should we do? And we did not do anything until Al Qaws came out because we were objecting to the whole question of saving queer people from queer communities, saving brown people from brown communities, the whole question of the colonial notion. And we were also taking leadership from the people on the ground who are day in and day out struggling. Once Al-Qaws came out with it, what we did is we published in one of the newspapers in the Bay Area, along with Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism, which is a group that has been doing a lot of work for a very long time, and whose founder actually was chosen to be the Grand Marshall at Gay Pride Parade at San Francisco. And she turned down this honor and said, because I am here in Palestine struggling with the International Solidarity Movement at the time to oppose the apartheid world to oppose the repression by Israel and so on. So we organized together. And that's when we said we endorse. We support. This is really important sometimes to think about how do we take a back road and when is it we go public with things. At this point, we really need to go public and we need to defy all this propaganda that is happening.  This is part of what the solidarity mean. But this is not free. When we do something like this, there is punishment. And these are some of the flyers I'm showing from the Queer Liberation March that took place in 2019. This was the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall, Uprising. The Queer Liberation March at that time actually decided to refuse any corporate funding, to refuse to allow the police to go march in their own uniforms and so on, rejected the policing, rejected the state apparatus that represses people, rejected the corporate money and so on. As a result, there was space for us to be there. So we were organizing, we organized a big contingent under the banner of QAIA, Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, and also Queers A gainst Islamophobia.  So we participated and I took this banner and I put it on my Facebook page. This led to the another Zionist attack, which is trying to silence Palestine and were trying to criminalize Palestine in the curriculum, and especially targeting us and our program in particular. And they took it and didn't say what was on the banner. They just said that I'm spreading hate, and thus I should be– they had 86 organizations, some of them fake organizations– sign it, send it to the university, to the chancellor of California State University to the president of San Francisco State, saying that I'm spreading hate. This for them is hate. Palestine is a queer issue. BDS Zionism is racism. Silence means death. For them, this was something that was very problematic, and it was something that is undermining the Zionist propaganda, and Zionist project of colonizing Palestine and eliminating the Palestinian people like the genocide that we are seeing here, and trying to continue pushing the pink washing without having it exposed.  As a result, our program has been attacked again and again. The Lawfare Project executive director got on the TV, on Fox and friends, and made a lying statement. They sued me. And they sued San Francisco State and they sued California State University. But we defeated them. It was thrown out of court. It was dismissed with prejudice. But she lied about that. And she said that I'm spreading hate; that I'm one of the leading anti Semitic– Horowitz every single year pushes out a formula about the top anti-Semitic scholars, and they always give me number one. And I think they do it in May because this is the fundraising season for them. As a result, I started receiving death threats. However, and including to my own university and the threat voicemails on my office mail that said Muslims will die, which is the same phrase that the guy who killed Wadiah Al-Fayyumi in Chicago, stabbing him 26 times. He said Muslims will die. The university does not believe that this is actually a viable threat. And so they protect the right wing speech, which is white supremacist and Zionist is a protected speech protected that they can do whatever they want, put up hateful posters, do whatever they want against us, but we are not allowed to say so. And the university is not investigating death threat letters that actually came to me through the University President's office to my own office. However we refuse to be silenced. We refuse to lie down. And so we continued organizing. And one of the main events that we organize, and we do it every year, is this panel Queer Open Classroom that everybody can attend and come in. Queer justice against pink washing, exposing it, bringing scholars and activists, Ghadir was one of the people who spoke at that, in order for us to support liberation for Palestine as part of liberation of all, and to support gender and sexual justice as part and parcel of the indivisibility of justice. Thank you. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Oh, Rabab. I hope that you can feel all the tremendous. gratitude and love that you're getting in the chat. I think that there is such a clear longing to be hearing stories from elders, folks who have been in this fight for so long. Thank you for bringing in the long arc of queer Palestinian organizing. Thank you for bringing the long arc and history of queers being in solidarity for Palestine. It's so important that we understand that while this moment is so important for us to study, learn and act. It rests upon such a long arc and such a long history of organizing in solidarity with Palestine. Thank you for also speaking to Mohammed Abu Khdeir, thank you for speaking him into the space. Thank you for both of you reminding us to follow the lead of queer Palestinians. What we're trying to do with you all today with this teach-in is to really pull us together, circle around and invite us all to be following the lead of queer Palestinians so that we can take on this work as inextricably linked to our own liberation; to advance the work of undermining pinkwashing and Zionism as part and parcel to our queer liberation. So thank you so much, Rabab. Our last speaker, Shivani Chanillo with Lavender Phoenix. Shivani (they/them) is a trans non- binary second generation Indian American organizer. Shout out to the baddy Indian organizers out here, myself included. Their experience of active solidarity with Palestinian folks came in 2017 through exchanges they facilitated between their high school students in Baltimore, and students at Ramallah Friends School in the West Bank. These powerful exchanges stoked Shivani's passion for developing young people as critical thinkers grounded in revolutionary values and politics. As a leadership development coordinator at Lavender Phoenix, an organization that Queer Crescent deeply loves and feels deeply supported by and in deep siblingship with. Shivani continues this work by facilitating opportunities for trans and queer Asians and Pacific Islanders to practice values based organizing and contribute to intersectional movements. In particular, I just want to really say that we were so excited to invite Shivani and Lavender Phoenix in to our teach in as the final speaker, because Lavender Phoenix is one organization that really models, going back to the initial motivation of this teach in with our letter calling for a permanent ceasefire, calling on LGBTQ organizations and leaders to sign on to understanding pink washing and to support Palestinian liberation. Lavender Phoenix is one such organization that has really demonstrated such values align solidarity with Palestinian liberation. And so I'm really excited to bring you in Shivani to close us out to talk about how queer people, queer organizations can really double down on our solidarity.  Shivani Chanillo: Thank you so much Shenaaz for that introduction and to Queer Crescent for organizing this event. I just want to take a moment and just, I feel so deeply moved by the sharing from Rabab and Ghadir in this workshop and just sitting with the lineage within all of us as we take up Palestine as a queer issue. We have generations of lessons and decades of work and such powerful leaders here in this space, but all across the world to follow, and I feel so grateful and so excited to be joining in on this work and sharing a little bit about what Lavender Phoenix is doing in this moment. If you haven't heard of Lavender Phoenix, we build trans non binary and queer Asian and Pacific Islander power here in the Bay Area. We are a base building organization training grassroots leaders to build intersectional movements. As we witness an escalation of the ongoing genocide in Palestine I can say that our base is firmly grounded in the understanding that Palestinian liberation is part of our struggle and our responsibility as trans and queer Asian and Pacific Islander people. And so I want to start by sharing a little bit about what we're doing in this moment, before sharing about how our members arrived to this point. Since October 7th we have shifted our work accordingly. We have dedicated time to mobilize our members and our broader communities to action. We have educated each other to stay politically grounded. We have and will continue to support each other to process the grief of this moment and to remember hope, optimism, and commitment. In so many facets of our work, we are stepping into deeper leadership and responsibility to support our Palestinian comrades to win. And more tangibly across our six member led committees, this looks like offering healing support, coordinating our members who are trained in protest and digital security to support our comrades, coordinating contingents at in person and online actions, moving financial resources and funder attention to our Palestinian partners, and uplifting pro Palestinian messaging and calls to actions using our social media reach. Responding to Palestine and challenging pinkwashing is not a shift in our priorities, but it's actually a sharpening of our focus as an organization. We've organized our base over the years to recognize our interconnected struggles, and across our membership, we so deeply understand that the Palestinian struggle is our struggle. And Palestinian futures are our futures. All of the actions we are taking right now to support Palestine, to challenge pinkwashing are the result of so many tests, experiments, and trials that have helped us deepen our political purpose and grow our power. Many of these experiments and trials that we've conducted over the years really informed our current theory of change. And this is really critical to how we're organizing in this moment. Our emergent responses to sharpen contradictions in our world like we are witnessing with Palestine, are only possible because we organize within a consistent theory of change. A key part of our theory of change and a key part of my role as Leadership Development coordinator, is that we are committed to developing leaders who are rooted in our values, in our history, in emotional intelligence, and compassion, because we know that is how our movement will be sustained and will be effective. So we're not just developing members and masses who care about single issues, we're developing holistic, critical thinkers who care about solidarity with all oppressed people so that in moments like this, solidarity with Palestine is a natural choice in our larger fight for liberation. One of the really important ways we do this, and this workshop is a critical example, is we educate our base, our trans and queer API base, on our history. We dig into how systems of white supremacy, imperialism, colonialism, racial capitalism, and cisheteropatriarchy impact all of us across our identities in the past and in the present. Right now, the tools and tactics being wielded by fascist leaders to criminalize and punish trans people here in the U. S. are rooted in the same white supremacist, colonial, and imperialist ideologies used to justify the dehumanization and murder of Palestinians, particularly trans and queer Palestinians. As part of our theory of change, we've also spent intentional time educating our base about revolutionary politics like abolition and healing justice, and developing our skills for safety, for healing and resource mobilization that are applicable in moments all across our movement. We spent so much time since we implemented this theory of change in 2021 to build our base and grow our power so we can show up for our partners who are organizing for Palestinian liberation in this moment. We have spent so much time cultivating our skills and knowledges so we can support our movements beyond just trans liberation.  I want to end just by sharing a little bit of a story. A few weeks ago, our members participated in a direct action that asked many of them to step into higher risk than they had before. Prior to the action, we met to get grounded together. Folks shared their fears, but they also countered those fears with a really rooted sense of purpose. So many of our members talked about how they wanted to look back on this moment and know that they and we as an organization did everything in our power to support Palestinian liberation. And they spoke about the sacred responsibility and duty we have in this moment to show up in solidarity. I feel so moved, even now, just thinking back to that moment and feel so much gratitude to our members for taking new risks, to the generations of leaders in our organization and our movement who have led us to this point, and I feel immense admiration and gratitude to the long lineage of Palestinian queer and trans resistance, and current day organizers who are guiding us right now. For Lavender Phoenix, this moment is really helping us clarify our power, and for many of our members, this moment is helping them clarify their political purpose. The things all of our Palestinian siblings are fighting for, self determination, safety, healing, community, decolonization, these are the things that we as trans and queer API people here in the Bay Area so desire for ourselves as well. We refuse to let our transness and our queerness be co opted for violence and displacement and genocide, and we know that our struggles and our futures are united, and we're committed to fighting alongside our Palestinian comrades until we are all free. Thank you so much for letting me share. I'll pass it back to Shenaaz. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Shivani, thank you so much for bringing all of it. Lavender Phoenix, I just can't swoon on y'all enough. You model that clarity of purpose and power and grace. There's also such deep humility and grace to be in constant learning. As an emerging organization, an emerging queer organization, I just have to say Queer Crescent feels so deeply held by y'all and really inspired with the path that you are leading and inviting us all towards.  This piece around letting this moment sharpen the focus. It's not a pivot. I think I've even said, we're pivoting, we're in rapid response. Part of our political principles as an organization is understanding anti Zionism as part and parcel of the white supremacist project. And so this is not a pivot, it's not a rapid response, but to your point, it's a sharpening and it's a double down of our commitments, principles and priorities. So thank you for naming that.  Cheryl Truong: And that's the end of our show. Tonight's show was a broadcast of the Resisting Pinkwashing teach-in co-led by Queer Crescent and the Palestinian Feminist Collective. It was moderated by Shenaaz Janmohamed, executive director of Queer Crescent and featured poetry by Mx. Yaffa of MASGD, and guest speakers, Rabab Abdulhadie from the Palestinian feminist collective, Ghadir Shafie of ASWAT, and and Shivani Chanillo from AACRE Group Lavender Phoenix. Learn more about the incredible work of these incredible organizations and sign on to Queer Crescent's cease fire campaign through the links in our show notes.  Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening! The post APEX Express – 05.30.24 – Resisting Pinkwashing appeared first on KPFA.

New York City Council Member Shekar Krishnan, chair of the Council's Parks Committee, and Adam Ganser, Executive Director of New Yorkers for Parks, joined the show to discuss the push for more funding for city parks, pools, beaches, playgrounds, and other public recreational places. (Ep 448)

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. For this week's episode of APEX Express, we are joined by Yi Thoj and Belle Vang from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF) who will go into depth about these very tough but very real and needed conversations about abusive relationships, especially within the Hmong community, where 70% of Hmong Americans are under 24 years old.   Important Resources: Hmong Innovating Politics website California Hmong Advocates Network – Building Our Futures website Healthy vs. Unhealthy Relationships infographic How to Spot Abusive Relationships infographic Do you know someone in an abusive relationship? infographic Are you in an abusive relationship? infographic What does consent look like? infographic Transcript Cheryl: Good evening, everyone! You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl and tonight is an What is AACRE?, you might ask. Well comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality (AACRE) network, leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement, building and support for Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  For tonight's episode, we will be spotlighting the work of AACRE group Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP. Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from HIP will be in conversation with Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from the California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures, also known as CHAN-BOF.  They'll be in discussion on the importance of teen dating violence awareness, especially in the Hmong community as they are among the youngest of all ethnic groups in the United States with about 70% of Hmong Americans being under 24 years old.   I know somebody, you might want to learn more about HIP and CHAN-BOF so I'll let our speakers introduce themselves. And don't forget. All of their socials and websites will be linked in the show notes.    Belle: Hi, everyone, thank you so much for making time in your night to join us. We really appreciate it. Today we're going to be having a panel discussion in recognition of Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month. I really want to thank CHAN-BOF for collaborating with Hmong Innovating Politics. We're very excited to do this collab together. We're going to do a brief introduction. So, hi, everyone. My name is Bella Gaonoucci Vang. I'm with Hmong Innovating Politics as a Communication and Narrative Manager. If you're not one of our followers, make sure to follow us.  Hmong Innovating Politics is a grassroots organization focused on strengthening political power within Hmong communities through civic engagement. And with that being said, I'll go ahead and pull in one of our HIP members, Yi.  Yi Thoj: Hi everyone, my name is Yi and I use she, her pronouns, and I been a HIP young adult for around three to four years. I'm also working on the Bright Spots project.  Belle: And then if we can have Pana join the conversation.  Pana: Hi, everyone. I am Pana with CHAN-BOF champion stands for California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future. We were two grassroots organizations in community and outreach and this past year we have been able to provide mobile direct services to our Hmong survivors of domestic violence across the Central Valley– so from Sacramento to Fresno. Jennifer Xiong: All right. And that leaves me. Hi, everyone. My name is Jennifer Xiong. I use she/her pronouns and I work as a program specialist with CHAN-BOF and Banak, who actually serves as my supervisor. I'm really excited and happy to be here and really grateful for HIP for giving us a space time and platform to have this conversation  Belle: Thank you again CHAN-BOF for collaborating with us here at HIP. We really appreciate all the work y'all do in the community. I know y'all individually are really great folks. I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation. In your experience, I'm just asking everyone in the panel, where are some cultural norms or expectations within the Hmong community regarding relationships and dating, and that could be anything that you'd like to share from your own personal experiences. Pana: I think I can go. So I think growing up in the eighties, cultural expectations for women, Hmong women, We were expected to just cook, clean, and take care of our younger siblings and our parents. Right? So if you were dating, your relatives would just look down on us. Dating was frowned upon. I remember it was expected that if a guy is interested in you, they would have to come by your parent's house and your parents would have to approve. I remember guys come in and during our teenage years, my mom would have to be present. Right. My parents are really strict. Their limit was they could only stay two hours. And so my mom would ask fast questions. If they don't qualify, they don't meet expectations, they better be out ASAP. My parents are really, really strict.  So those were our expectations back in the 80s. We weren't really allowed to date during my younger days that's what we had to go through. Yi Thoj: I feel like a lot of the gender expectations of my generation is still very much by heteronormative and patriarchal norms and construct.  I'm the youngest of 7 girls, so all of my, 6 older sisters– they're fierce and they're also wonderful, powerful women who have helped me navigate through a lot of the contentions that I held before, interacting with romantic encounters and engagements. And so I think having that model definitely helped me navigate through my experiences as well. I feel like our parents are like, oh, if you want to engage in romantic encounters at a young age, that's welcome. But thankfully, they also didn't pressure us to do so. Jennifer Xiong: It's got me thinking about my own experiences, very little experiences, I might add. I think about some of the things my mom has said to me, which still stick around, it's kind of like embedded in my mind where she says Oh, ([Jennifer speaks in Hmong) meaning when your partner is visiting or at our home, you guys shouldn't be in your bedrooms. You should be out in the living rooms because that's really disrespectful. It, it invites negative perceptions about the person and about the relationship and it is a form of disrespect toward the, the parents and the home. I've also felt and seen from my older cousins or distant relatives who've gotten married– I think it's centered a lot around saving face. I remember hearing stories about my cousins. If they had gone out and they came home late, for example, and the parents were extremely displeased or unhappy, and they're like, no, you dishonored me and my daughter. You have to marry my daughter now because you took her home late, even if they didn't do anything salacious, so to speak. I'd hear those a lot. And, for me, those are always scary. Like, Oh my gosh, they would just do that! And you're a kid and you're growing up hearing these and actually, I think I heard it more commonly than I expected– people marrying young because of the whole consequence of arriving home late from a date or a hangout. So those are some of my experiences or what I've, I heard and witnessed. Yeah.  Belle: Thank y'all for sharing. I love hearing about your experiences. I It's really interesting how we all have different experiences, but it's still in the same realm of a very similar community, right? Very tight knit community. I echo both Jennifer and Yee's experience where my parents are a little bit more lax, but at the same time, it's like, make sure you marry someone who's a quality person. Right? I think that's really telling of how we see dating in the Hmong community. We don't date to date, right? We date to commit forever. And especially, I know all of us on this panel are women identifying and that can be a very dangerous tool, right? To just date to only marry– you're willing to put up with a lot, even if it's not really what you want for yourself, because the way the culture shapes us is if you are dating, you're only dating seriously. It's not to explore, not to be curious about yourself. And so I really appreciate the way that y'all frame it and the way that you share your experiences too. And I know we touched a little bit on this as well, but kind of gauging what it looks like to be in a healthy relationship. How would you say a healthy relationship is defined within the Hmong community? And what are qualities that you consider important? For a positive and respectful relationship within the community? Pana: So you all heard the word [Pana speaks in Hmong], right [Pana speaks in Hmong] right? [Pana speaks in Hmong] We We hear this over and over. I think even with my age, I've heard that. I'm pretty sure some of y'all have heard that to even my parents or friends or family, right? To me, what's considered positive in a relationship is really compromising and allowing you to have your own space, really meeting each other in the middle, trusting each other, having boundaries, appreciating each other, respecting, having that respect, right? Effective communication, being able to communicate with each other and having empathy. Also consent. Really having the permission of something to happen or agreement. Be able to agree with something and being committed to your relationship.  Jennifer Xiong: Yeah, I wanted to add, and also share that I think a lot of the times traditional expectations around what a healthy relationship looks like in the Hmong community generally entails being constricted and confined to your pre established roles that have been gone for generations. But I think that how we can further redefine that nowadays is to really think about how everything that Pana has already listed and shared. Right. I think it's important that those things like healthy boundaries and having balance within a relationship, I feel a lot of those things should be contextualized to the relationship. That's one, but also, I think it should be formed organically, which is difficult, and there will always be ongoing conversations about what a romantic commitment looks like, and what does that mean for the exact couple, but I think it's important to have an ongoing conversation about it, and then also it's important to understand these layers, that , If the couple is both Hmong, it's important to put that in context, and then it's also, what if it's a multiracial or multiethnic relationship? I think that's also very important. Understanding the values, and how these things can be formed organically as well. There are certain learned behaviors, beliefs, attitudes, that we pick up as we grow up and what the kind of relationships and dynamics we witnessed as we're growing up and then getting or getting involved in our own romantic relationships with people, and the things we witness and see can also really shape the way we go into relationships and the way we show up as partners.  I really don't know how to define it within the Hmong community, but I will say that I have seen when relationships and dynamics of dating are built on a foundation of patriarchy, it can, relating back to what Yi and Pana says, it can build really toxic and concerning, unhealthy relationship dynamics of power and control, and not knowing how to allow your partner to have autonomy to themselves, or knowing that it's two different people coming in together to a relationship. Power and control, when it gets mixed into this relationship, it can become really unhealthy and toxic. So I think it's also about unlearning those and realizing that certain attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs don't serve in creating a healthy relationship between a partnership or a romantic relationship. Within the Hmong community, a lot of us I've seen unlearning those behaviors and attitudes that we may have witnessed and maybe even internalized growing up. To answer the second part of the question what qualities are considered important for a positive respectful Relationship. I think it's really all that you you both named. Those are important like compromise and y'all named so many other great stuff, but then I was also just cranking up the things in my mind, but I just want to echo back what Yi and Pana said, and I'll leave it at that. Yi Thoj: What Jennifer just shared, about what we witnessed growing up sparked something in my mind as well about the media that we consumed growing up too. I watched a ton of Tyler Crohn's and Southeast Asian media growing up, and so much of the representations of love in there. It's so romanticized that abuse is okay. Non consensual engagements is okay. The media and real life relationships that are reflected and also modeled throughout our lives hold such a big factor into how we view love growing into a young adult and further. I know it definitely impacted me because I was always like, Oh, I think that's what love is, right? That's what it's showing on TV and things like that. Yeah, definitely holds weight.  Belle: Yeah, I love that you mentioned that Yi. I didn't really seriously start dating until I was in college and a lot of our generation grew up watching kdramas. Like, oh so romantic, super rich Boy is in love with super poor girl and he dictates her life and buys her everything like so romantic. And I tell my partner now that i'm married, if you ever do anything like in kdramas we are not messing around. That is not cool I don't want you to decide anything for me. I don't want you to pretend like you're in the hospital just as a prank You know boys over flowers. It's really interesting how love is framed growing up and how, just like you said, it's super romanticized. And like, you know how K dramas, you feel that excitement, like that, it's not necessarily love, right? That's just the thrill of being in something new, experiencing something different, but not necessarily love itself. And I really resonate with what you said earlier, Yi, about how it's really important to form those healthy boundaries and organically. And I really closely ties to Pana's comment about being able to create a consensual relationship and, Just like Jennifer said to like dismantling that patriarchy and foundation that we were built on.  We;re Belle: Learning those things are really hard to because initially I thought that drama was what love was supposed to be, but love is supposed to be safe and supposed to protect you, make you feel like you belong. Right? Because we like do grow up in a society that perpetuates love in honestly a violent way, I also just kind of want to know like y'all's thoughts on do you think there's enough awareness about dating violence within our communities, particularly the Hmong community? And how do you feel like it's generally perceived or even discussed amongst one another? Pana: I actually think there's not much awareness happening in the Hmong community. We really need to continue and bring more awareness. And it's awareness. Prevention. Intervention. We need to continue to do that. Some parents don't talk much to their youths about teen dating violence, what's healthy and what's not healthy, or actually like what to look for in a relationship.  In my household, I have only boys. And so we talk about safe sex, healthy boundaries, healthy relationship. What would they like to see in a relationship. I do this because, I've had experience working in the domestic violence field, sexual assault field for a long time. And plus, that's something that I never got from my parents. So my goal was, from now on, when I have my kids, these are stuff that I'm going to teach them. And so I kept my goals, you know, that was something that I told myself that I promised myself that I would do this, to continue to teach my kids healthy boundary, healthy relationship and dating violence., Most parents were taught when they were young you're going to get married and just have a good life, have a good family.  Yi Thoj: All points that are so valid and so true. There are generational gaps, between the elders and ourselves and myself. My parents are around mid 60s. As much as I think I try to bridge that gap sometimes, I think youth just don't have the language as well to fully explain to them.  There's even the conversation about like mental health and how romantic relationships are embedded in mental health and even that in itself is a difficult conversation to start. More tangible resources to learn more about communication in terms of learning the Hmong language and whatnot would definitely help with outreach and building awareness in the community. But I think a lot of recent events as well have also shown to me about where The reflection of culture and the communities as well Which I would also like to provide some sort of affirmation for any youth who's watching this that these contentions and frictions within the community– it's never a reflection of you. You know, it's always a reflection of the larger culture and what is happening. And something that we all need to advocate for and invest into to change.  Jennifer Xiong: yeah. I agree that Bottom line, there isn't enough awareness about dating violence within the Hmong community on many different fronts, like Pana mentioned, the prevention piece and the intervention piece. How does someone recognize or learn to recognize signs of I might be in a toxic, unhealthy relationship that is or can eventually lead into something that's violent? Or maybe I am in a current relationship where there is violence, but I don't know how to pick up on the signs and actually realize that, hey, I'm not in a safe place in this relationship, or in a safe relationship.  And then if your loved ones or family members or friends are recognizing it from an outside perspective, like, we lack a lot of resources and information out there for our community to engage with to learn how to intervene or also recognize it among our loved ones and the people we care about if they may be in those types of dynamics and relationships. And then when we do recognize it, how do we step in and help? What do we do? How can we help? And yeah, so bottom line, there isn't enough resources out there. I think it's still really on the, I guess the loose term, up and up. I really have a lot of faith and hope and I've seen, the work continue to expand and grow and obviously CHAN-BOF is a part of that, along with so many other organizations, statewide organizations that are trying to build more resources and information and push it out there into our communities, so that they know this information, they have access to it and can tap into it with our youth and young adults , and maybe even with our older folks or generations, cause I know you mentioned brought up a really great point too,in that , there's different gaps or different ways of understanding how to talk about dating violence within the Hmong community. Pana: Yeah, I remember my parents would tell me, [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] [Pana speaks in Hmong] and I'm like I never understood that. And so growing up, getting older, I kind of understood it. And again, they said the same thing. We were talking, me and my kids were sitting in the table and we're talking about healthy relationship and stuff. What do you look for? How would the relationship look like? What's healthy? And then again, my dad says, yeah [Pana speaks in Hmong]  And my son was like, I don't understand that mom. It was just very generalized, and I had to like recorrect that. This is what he means. My definition of what my dad said was Look for a healthy relationship. Get to know the person Date them Belle: I love that example Pana because growing up everyone always told me that, and I took it at face value. You know when we speak in moments like poetry, right? but growing up I took that at face value saying like when you grow up make sure you marry someone who has Power, who has good reputation in the community, and then As I got older, my mom's like, that's never what I was telling you. Jennifer Xiong: I was just telling you, marry someone who makes you happy. And I was like, Oh, how come you didn't just say it that way? Then like you put it in a way that I was like, Oh man, I have to make sure I marry someone who's brings honor to my family, right? Like what a Mulan way of thinking. But I feel like that's always how I really perceive dating. And tying how Hmong is very much like poetry in our communities, I really like what Yi's comment earlier about how there's not really a lot of terminology in our community for even awareness about the mental health in our community. It's very much how medical terms have only really come to fruition in our community within the past like 50 years. We don't have anything regarding terms that we can use for mental health or dating violence, like the only thing we can use is sick, like that's pretty much how you say when you talk about mental health.   You just say basically, you have a sickness in your head, but there's not actual terms. When we talk about diabetes, like, [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] which literally translates to sweet blood or blood. Well, that is sweet. I hope to see, the next, I don't want to wait 50 years. I hope in the next 20 years there is verbiage that can help the community decipher and break down and bring more awareness to the violence that's being perpetrated in our communities as well. Belle: I love this conversation. I really love that. You showed examples of your son, and it really feels like how intergenerationally we think. We all think so differently, even though we have good intentions it doesn't get translated across the board. I kind of want to elaborate a little bit more when we talked about how it's really important to have consent when it comes to dating, how you really teach your sons that. Would you mind elaborating a little bit more about what consent looks like when it comes to dating, your perspective and how you see it within our communities as well. Pana: Have y'all seen the little video about drinking tea ? Sometimes you can drink the tea and you're like, I don't want to drink it no more. You know, and so you can change at any moment, right? And being able to understand okay, I This person might not want to, so I need to be able to give that respect and step away, right? And so, getting them to understand that. So if you all watched that video, the tea consent video. It's really cute, and It's really good for the youth, even for the kids. They understand it real quick. In a relationship, you should be able to give them that space and say, Okay, I get it. I'm gonna be able to understand if someone says no, then no means no. And then their body gestures are like they're pushing back, that means no. If my face is looking like, i'm shaking my head or you can see in my eyes like I don't like you stay away Right? And so being able to understand that Jennifer Xiong: I think one thing I want to add to that which is great. Like the tea consent video is super amazing at just Easily explaining under the understanding of consent, but also when someone can't consent like when they can't answer yes or no. For example, they're at a party and they've passed out drunk. They're just not conscious and awake and they can't answer yes or no, decline or accept. That also is not an invitation or permission. That is not a consent, basically. So I'm going back and forth. When a person can't answer, it's definitively no, because they're not consciously aware and awake enough to give that response. So I think that is also something I wanted to add. Yi Thoj: Yeah, I don't have much to add to this question. I've never seen the tea consent video, but putting that into perspective, that is such a great analogy and wonderful example and easy way to explain things can change right in the middle of an interaction.  Also just wanting to provide admiration to Pana as well to opening up the conversations with your sons because I think that's so important. A lot of the times younger Men or Hmong youth who are male identified. A lot of the times their influences are from other male figures in their lives who may not be the best role model. And so I'm totally leaning in towards the Hmong woman leaders in people's lives, especially Hmong youth, and just really loving that. Belle: I love that affirmation. we are right now a room of powerful women in our community itself. So I really, I want to like, double up on that echo Yi's statement as well.  Cheryl: You are currently tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA and 88.1 on KFCF. You have so far been listening to Belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as HIP, and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong from California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Future (CHAN-BOF). We are going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. More on breaking the silence about teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong community after our break.  Welcome back. You were tuned into apex express on 94.1, KPFA 88.1. KFCF in Fresno. And online at KPFA. Dot org. You were just listening to your track off of the Anakbayan LB May Day mix tape called “Letter to Mom” by shining sons. Anakbayan LB is a Filipino youth and student organization based in long beach, California, working to arouse, organize and mobilize the community to address issues that impact Filipinos in the U S and in the Philippines.  Now, back to the show. We are here, with belle Vang and Yi Thoj from Hmong Innovating Politics (HIP) and Pana Lee and Jennifer Xiong. From California Hmong Advocates Network Building Our Futures (CHAN-BOF). We're talking about teen dating violence awareness and its impacts and implications in the Hmong community.  Belle: Jennifer, you talk about patriarchy and shared about how, you really tried to shape your son because you also work in this field you are definitely more eloquent work in addressing these issues. I want to dive more into what that looks like within our community and in our culture. Do you feel like there are specific cultural or community barriers that may prevent individuals, particularly Hmong individuals, from seeking help or disclosing incidents of dating violence? And what does that look like? Especially since I know CHAN-BOF does a lot of that direct work with clients. Pana: I think because we're so closely knitted, that's a barrier too, being afraid of, okay, this person might know me. One example is while growing up, I was taught men were more valuable than women. I think in our family, my parents really wanted a son and they kept on trying and trying until after they got 7 daughters, they finally got their son, right? And so we were told, you have to be patient because boys, [Jennifer speaks Hmong] and as a teenager, I was like, I guess I held no value. And so, and also keeping in mind for a long time, a lot of our culturally specific organizations were mainly ran by Hmong men. Hmong men are the main person who makes the decisions Jennifer Xiong: Some of those barriers are they don't seek help or support. The other barrier that I experienced in high school is I had a friend who was dating someone who was really abusive and verbally abusive, physically abusive. He sexually assaulted her. When she came to me. I was like, Oh, no, you need to go to your parents. The minute she told her parents, she was forced to marry him to save face. And so, after watching what had happened to my friend made me feel like if that happened to me and I went and told my parents. But these are back in my days, though, right? I would be forced to get married, like, and that time I didn't know that that was not okay. If someone raped you and forced you, that is not okay, but I wasn't aware of that. She wasn't aware of that. And so, again, we said, you know, back, awareness needs to happen. Awareness and education. That was something I remember for a long time and I felt guilty and I, I felt bad because I didn't know who to send to go for help. I referred it back to her parents and said, yeah, your parents would help you go for it and go for it. And that's, that's what happened. That's one of the other barriers. Some of our parents are not very educated in this topic, and it's a topic that we don't talk about. I do want to add, there's still strong sentiments of, victim blaming, shaming, disempowering. I've heard statements, or I will say, I was doing my research paper on DV in the Hmong community. My sources were like YouTube videos. And so, I found these videos of these women speaking out about their experiences of DV. In this particular example, she's married she was pregnant and her husband was abusing her. So much so that he was dragging her down the stairs of their apartment building. And so she mentioned her stomach was basically getting shaped. She was somehow able to escape his grasp and run to a neighbor and ask them to call law enforcement. And so law enforcement came and took away the husband because they visibly could see what, what had gone on. Her mother in law had said to her, Oh. [Jennifer speaks Hmong], meaning, oh, daughter in law, why did you call law enforcement and have them take away my son? It dawned on me how we perceived some of these dynamics and abuses when it happens in relationships. And again, the whole, why did you do that instead of are you okay? What happened to you? Why did they do that to you? Or really focusing on the wellness and safety of the person being in a violent relationship, violent abusive relationship. And to add to that, the terminology and the way we frame some of the resources out there, I remember a lot of the [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] the elders, would call DV shelters [Jennifer speaks in Hmong] right. The term, the explanation of it is like the place for runaway women or wives or mothers. But in fact, these shelters meant to house and keep individuals, women, children, who were experiencing abuse and violence in their relationship safe. But then we use negative connotations and terminology to label them because it brings a lot of shame and hesitation to seek out help. The fact that the resources that are available mainstream wise for those who are seeking help and resources because they may be in an abusive violent relationship is that there's also a lack of culturally responsive resources and services to aid and assist our specific community members when they're out trying to get the help that they need. I've witnessed and heard that a lot from the clients that I directly support and assist. Like, oh, we've gone here and then they mentioned not having a great experience, or being misunderstood, or I'm not feeling even safe or comfortable enough to talk about their experiences and get the resources and help that they need because some of the agencies really lacked the cultural understanding awareness or the intersection of that when it comes to dating violence or domestic violence in our own community. Yi Thoj: Yeah, all of this is like really great examples. Also, unfortunate. I think that from my own experience with dealing with victims around me who have undergone a lot of these violences, what I've seen is that a lot of it is them recognizing that the harm that is being done to them is wrong. Very much so. But they've also internalized and conditioned themselves to accept it as something that is normal and okay, even if a lot of the times there's this back and forth resistance of wanting to debate themselves from the situation, but then at the same time, them like always going back and this is the cycle of abuse, right, and how it works. But one note that I would also like to make is that what I've also seen is that it's really, really important that male perpetrators, especially Hmong men, it's important that there are other Hmong men who are holding them accountable, is what I found to be true. Because as much as Hmong women who are victims and other Hmong women bystanders who are wanting to advocate for these victims try to stand up for them, These perpetrators and also the culture inherently does not change if people who are in power and have that privilege don't actively help dismantle it, too. So, I think that it's important to note. There's so much power that goes into having woman led spaces and woman voices because that's so important, but I also think there should be so much more work done from the cisgendered male counterparts in our lives and in the community Belle: Thank y'all for that. Your sentiment is so powerful, yi and it's Very valid. A lot of times the folks that were leading this work are often the women in our communities Like that's just straight up facts, right? I attended a Boys and men of color conference, and one of the panels said the one time that men have these spaces together is also when women created. Right? As women, we build a lot of community for our community and at the same time, don't get the recognition of the work that is being done. So, it's really important that those who do have power, make sure that they implement it correctly and support communities that minorities within their communities that need that extra support.  The examples provided to I felt were very powerful, but also very traumatizing. When I was listening to your story, when you were talking about how you advise your friend to go to their family and they were forced into marriage. I know that we are different generations, but I feel like I definitely have met folks who are my age who were still forced to the situation. Those culture practices are so very normal and not unheard of. Like it's not completely cultural shift within one generation. And I'm sure When you witnessed that, that it was very traumatizing for you too, even though you were not the one immediately affected by it, but it also shifted the way you saw community, the way you viewed culture itself. And you even expressed you felt a lot of guilt and responsibility for that. It's really interesting that when there are those traumatizing, abusive relationships happening to those folks, and even at the third per person party that you feel that trauma in other ways as well. You mentioned how the patriarchy does affect our communities in that way. What is being done? What is being said to help heal our communities and work past these issues that are obviously very much rooted in our communities. I know we talked a little bit about the way cultural identity influences our communities. I know we specifically talked about the Hmong community too as well. I know we only have about 10 minutes left and so I kind of just want to dive into, not necessarily solutions, but what are things that we can take, what are steps that we can take to make progressive action and change in our community? So in your opinion, what role can the Hmong community play in addressing and preventing this deep imbalance? And Are there any community led solutions that you feel could be effective within our community? Yi Thoj: Yeah, I think as we've mentioned throughout the conversation, it's important to emphasize and highlight prevention work that can be done. And that is teaching the young boys and men and ongoing older Hmong men in our lives to. Because that is community, right? Folks who are directly within our circles, as well as people who we interact with. I think it's important to teach them very simple things that should already be fundamental, but unfortunately are not. Such as informed consent, and then also just normal consent. I think to echo back on what I just shared as well, having more male mentors who are very much progressive and radical in their work, and also centered in the actual tangible dismantling of the culture and harmful aspects of the system, I think is, A really big part of it. The reason why I think I'm bringing this up is because my experience with younger men who still hold a lot of these traditionalist and violent behaviors and mentalities receive a lot of their mentorship from other male mentors in their lives, and also just media consumption such as Andrew Tate and whatnot. A lot of folks in my own young adult experience very much religiously follow Andrew Tate and I had believed that we were at a point in our progressive history to where we have gone past that, but it's still very rampant in the community and it's affecting The youth, and it's affecting how they interact with and also date other Hmong women as well, assuming that this is a binary relationship.   Pana: It's time to talk about it, supporting each other, talking about what health relationship really is. And It doesn't have to just come from the school. For a long time, a lot of our parents, we depend on the school. Oh, they'll figure that out, right? it needs to come from everyone, every one of us. Even as a friend, as an individual, we all need to support in that piece like supportive organizations such as CHAN-BOF and HIP, right? Continuously talking about this, bringing the awareness. If you're feeling uncomfortable, if we're really uncomfortable talking about a certain topic, we do need to talk about that and really addressing that. Getting to understand what's healthy and what's not healthy. What are the signs of an abusive relationship? I think if we really want change, change needs to happen especially as parents and it comes from the youth too. We want a better future for our youth so I think really continue to really address this and doing a lot of prevention work because we tend to deal with a crisis and we're forgetting about the prevention part. How do we prevent this stuff. One great example that I always use is we're constantly supporting and trying to jump in and support people who are drowning, but we keep forgetting about, what's happening on the other side of that river. Something's happening and it's the prevention education piece that we need to start doing and continue to do. Cheryl: We're going to take a quick music break, but don't go anywhere. Next up,. You're going to be listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle. More on the ways we can work towards. Teen dating violence awareness in the Hmong Comunity when we return.    Cheryl: And we're back!. You are tuned in to KPFA on 94.1, KPFA 88.1 KFCF F in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. You were just listening to “cultural worker” by power struggle, a Filipino beat rock music artist based in the bay. We're currently here with Belle and Yi from Hmong innovating politics, hip. And Jennifer and Pana from California Hmong advocates network, building our futures, cHAN-BOF as we discuss the ways we can address teen dating violence in the Hmong community.    Jennifer Xiong: I'm gonna echo, I mean, both of you brought up the same points, but in really distinctive examples of your own, and I really appreciate that. It is about really bolstering, our community up to be proactive and engaged and informed about this, and really equipping and building them up to be a part of this, that it's not oh, you know, I think it's great that obviously we do this work as current active advocates who've had previous quote, unquote, professional experience dealing with , crisis like this, or dealing with and supporting directly individuals who have gone or are going through this and that, like, everyone is more than capable of being equipped with the knowledge and being enforced with the knowledge and the ability To learn and understand this and be proactive about it in our community. It does lead a lot back to the whole prevention and intervention work and building up our youth and young adults. Cause you know, okay. So a side note is, so we did a lot of outreach and engagement work this past year, really putting it out in front of our community, in the Hmong community. And let me tell you, I was scared to do this because I was like, oh my gosh, people are going to be bringing their pitchforks and torches and, and they're going to come around and be like, who's this girl going on TV, talking about DV and providing resources and services for our community. Interestingly enough, I got like so much of the opposite reaction and responses. And I think to me, that's really heartwarming. And it gives me a lot of hope because I got so much positive affirmation and reinforcement and feedback from even our older generations in our community and young folks too, saying this is so needed. This is critical, important. I'm so glad you're out here. Or how can we get involved? Even being like, , I'm so happy that you guys are doing this work. And we really have a lot of faith because so much of our younger folks, younger generations are stepping up to do this sort of work. So I think it's really the community, a large portion of the community, from what I've experienced, really recognize how important and needed this work is to implement this and incorporate this into our community so they know and understand like, Hey, violence is not okay. Dating violence is not okay. Domestic violence is not okay. But what can we do? , what do we do about it? And I think we're at that place where people are really curious and desiring to really step up and do something about it. And again, I think what Pana and Yi mentioned.  Belle: Thank you. I love those ideas on how the Hmong community can take action to change the violence that happens in our communities, right? I love dismantling the patriarchy and empowering our youth. I think that also really comes with, I know we didn't really touch on this, but, the 18 class system. How there really needs to be more, you mentioned, women leadership. We have a lot of women leadership in our communities, but not within our 18 class system. And why is that right? And how do we convince them that we need women in those leadership roles within our communities to represent our communities. That also ties into the same thing with Jennifer, how we really want to empower youth. We should also have youth leadership because then the folks who are in those important seats are 60 plus and so disconnected with the reality that we're living in today. So, you know, I just really appreciate everything y'all brought to the table today. I know we only have a few minutes left. , I know we talked a lot about youth empowerment, how there's a lot of women leadership. Since we're focusing on teen dating violence today, what is a tip or advice that you would have liked to receive as a teenager, now being a little bit more experienced with your relationships. And if you could say it really quick. Any of the teenagers listening out here, perk your ears up– there's a lot of great advice in here, so make sure that you absorb it like a sponge. And I'll just go ahead and leave it at that.  Pana: I think with me– it's okay to not be okay, right? It's okay to not be okay, and it's really okay to talk to someone. And really reach out for help and, you know, really understand that it's okay to say no, and we are all equal. Jennifer Xiong: For me, Oh gosh, this is hard. First things first is like, I think my teen self would have loved to know dating during your teen years. It's not a big deal. Like, it's okay. Don't feel like you're missing out or that there's something wrong with you if you aren't in a relationship while you're in your teen years. Really spend that time cherishing and valuing the time you have with yourself and getting to know yourself first, so that when you do get into a relationship, you know what you want, you know, the values that you want in a relationship, the values you want to bring into a relationship, you know yourself. And also don't forget that you are you're worthy. You matter, you're important. And that, anyone who disrespects you or does not value your work in a relationship more than likely aren't worth your time and aren't worth your tears. And so I think that's what I would have wanted to know.  Yi Thoj: for mine, it's very specific. How I came to be with my current partner. It was through an intersection of events with a lot of things that we've already discussed today as well. And so I think what I would have wanted to know is that It's very difficult to try to empower and change the hearts and minds of people on the ground level. Even if you're going in head strong. please treat yourself with grace in all of that. And then lean in on your partner to help you navigate that. It's so important. I think a lot of Hmong women and Hmong girls are taught to be hyper individualistic and independent, and it's needing to teach that sometimes you can lean into your femininity. Sometimes you can lean in on support from other people. And also from your partner, it's really important. C: Thank you. I love all the self love in the room and just really great advice on being gentle with yourself and recognize that you are deserving of all the good things in life. I hope that everyone really takes that to heart and it's just friendly reminder to continue loving yourself in the process of loving others. Love is abundant. It's not scarcity mindset. We are here to share our love and that love should be shared with ourselves as well. We're going to wrap today up and I just want to say thank you so much to Yi, Pana, Jennifer for joining us and thank you so much CHAN-BOF for collaborating with HIP for dating violence awareness month. We really appreciate all your effort and all the work you do in our communities as well. If you haven't already in the audience, please make sure to follow and like HIP and CHAN-BOF so you can continue following the work that we do and support our endeavors as community members, because you are part of the change in our communities as well. Well, all so much and have a good rest of your night. Thanks everyone.  Cheryl: And that's the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Hmong innovating politics and CHAN-BOF by checking out our show notes.   Also HIP and CHAN-BOF ask work together to create these really helpful infographics on themes of teen dating violence awareness, such as what is consent? How do you know you're in an abusive relationship. How can you help someone who's in it? I found them to be really helpful. So I will also make sure to link those in the show notes as well.  Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – 04.25.24 – Hmong Teen Dating Violence Awareness appeared first on KPFA.

On this special episode of The Retail Perch, Shekar hosts our very own Gary Hawkins, to tell us about his latest book! Bionic Retail: How to Thrive in an Exponential World explores the connection between evolving technology and supermarkets. They chat about Gary's childhood, farm life, and his family's grocery business, uncovering fascinating stories along the way.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   This year, more than 24,000 Chinese migrants have made the dangerous 60-mile trek through the Darien Gap to cross the U.S.-Mexico border.   For this episode of AACRE Thursday, host Cheryl is joined by Annette Wong, Kelly Wong, and Kennis Chen, members of Chinese for Affirmative Action's Immigrant Rights and Chinese Digital Engagement teams who flew down to the San Diego Migrant Welcome Center early March to meet the influx of Chinese migrants who would have otherwise had to rely on Google Translate for support.   In the three days the team was in San Diego, they had met people from all over the world. There were Vietnamese speakers, Arabic; Gujarati, Portuguese, in addition to Chinese, Spanish, and English. But according to CAA's Managing Director of Programs, Annette Wong, “what folks were coming and looking for– it's very much the same story. Economic opportunity. And family reunification.”   Important Resources: Chinese for Affirmative Action website Chinese for Affirmative Action Instagram Justice Patch article Kelly and Kennis' Podcast: 第二十一集 | 美墨邊境走線者的故事: 追逐夢想與更美好生活 | EP21 | Chasing Dreams & A Better Life: Chinese Migrants at the Southern Border Transcript Cheryl Truong: Good evening, everyone. You were currently tuned in to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA. We are bringing you an Asian-American and Pacific Islander point of view from the bay and around the world. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong. And tonight is an AACRE night, a series on APEX express, where I highlight groups from within the AACRE network, AACRE being short for Asian Americans for civil rights and equality. APEX express is proud to be part of the acre network.  I am so excited to introduce you all to the guests on tonight's show. They are from Chinese for Affirmative Action, You'll hear it referred to as CAA all throughout tonight's episode. They are people whose work I really admire and I feel so lucky to work closely with them through the AACRE Network.  A little bit of history. CAA was founded in 1969 and has for five decades now been a progressive voice in an on behalf of the broader API community. The advocate for systemic change that protects immigrant rights, promotes language diversity, and remedies racial and social injustice.   Early this March members from the Immigrant Rights and Chinese Digital Engagement Teams from CAA flew down to the San Diego Migrant Welcome Center to meet the influx of Chinese migrants who are crossing the Southern border. This year. More than 24,000 Chinese migrants have made the dangerous 60 mile Trek. Through the Darien gap to cross the U S Mexico border. The San Diego Migrant Center is only the first stop for thousands of migrants entering the United States, and is for many only the beginning of an even longer and greater journey.   Annette Wong: Earlier 2023, the immigrant rights team at CAA started to receive more and more calls from Chinese community members that were seeking asylum. And so this kind of raised a flag for us to inquire a little bit more about why is this happening? Where is this coming from? Are other organizations that are similarly situated seeing the same trend? So we have been working with a couple partners that also do similarly kind of immigrant legal services in the Chinese community, and we also asked them, “Are you seeing the same uptick?” And the same kind of issue arising for them as well, where they're getting this increase in calls of Chinese asylum seekers who are sharing a very similar story of coming in through the southern border. And so, as a result, we started to pay more attention to what the news was reporting out about that phenomenon and paying attention more to what we're also seeing in terms of the local impact in San Francisco.  Cheryl Truong: Speaking currently is Annette Wong. The managing director of programs at CAA.  Annette Wong: in the fall of 2023 a group called the Haitian Bridge Alliance reached out. At the time they were working out of the San Diego Migrant Welcome Center And provide services to migrants that are arriving from the southern border in San Diego. There were many groups that were staffing the center, but none of the groups were Chinese speaking, so they were having a lot of difficulty communicating with Chinese community members that were coming through. And yeah, that was how we got plugged in.  In December of 2023. We went down for our first trip.  Kennis Chen: when IR team first go down to San Diego last December, I was like so excited. I was like, Oh, let me hear more about the stories. And this March, we have budget for one of the CDE advocate could go down there with IR team and see what is going on. And luckily, that person is me.   Definitely this time is more chaotic than last time. And I will say for me is. It's both physically and mentally a challenge because I have many cultural and well language connection with those migrants, so I feel a lot for them. It's an issue, but it also gives me some hope when seeing them. Cheryl Truong: Speaking now is Kennis Chen, who is one of three members of the CDE team at CAA. CDE which stands for Chinese digital engagement. The CDE team does a lot of incredible work debunking right-wing misinformation and lifting up progressive viewpoints in Chinese language spaces, such as WeChat and Weibo which is a Chinese micro-blogging site whose name I, just Googled how to pronounce, and am probably saying wrong anyway.  Kennis who is absolutely my inspiration for being powerfully multilingual actually wrote about CAA's experiences in San Diego in an article on JusticePatch.org, which is one of CAA's Chinese language websites that has become a trusted source of in-language information for thousands of viewers. Because Justice Patch is not subject to the political censorship that occurs on platforms like WeChat, readers actually have access to a wider selection of content. Including more progressive commentary, fact checks, and news alerts. I'll have Kennis's article linked in the show notes and I'll also have information on the ways you can stay engaged with CAA's Chinese Digital Engagement work. For those interested in reading the article, but are like me and can't read Chinese, the article actually has cool pictures in it. And if you scroll all the way to the bottom, you'll actually see a list of English articles that were cited and used as resources when writing the article.  Speaking next is my dear colleague Kelly Wong, who is. part of CA's immigrant rights team. the IR team as you'll hear it referred to throughout the show.  Kelly Wong: When the Immigrant Rights team went last December, San Diego still funded a Migrant Welcome Center that's allowed a migrants that were released from Customs and Border Protection, so, short for CBP. When they released the migrants last December, we have the center where the migrants can go there take some rest, and try to figure out what the next move would be. But this time, it's a lot harder. In March the county government decided to pull out funding for the migrant center. As a result, the migrants actually didn't get to drop off at the center anymore. They would just be released on the street and that make the whole situation a lot harder.  I didn't join the group last time, so for me it is also my first time going to San Diego. I heard so much from my teammates as to what had happened before. And obviously from the news as well. So part of me is a little anxious, not gonna lie, just to not knowing what to do on the spot.  And I already foresee that it's going to be a lot of challenges with languages because it's not just Chinese migrants that's going to be there, right? It's going to be people from around the world that cross the border. So I think part of me is really anxious. But at the same time, I also really want to talk to migrants directly because, many things were said on the news, narratives, but these are actual human beings and people, right? So I wanted to know what motivated them to come here, their journey, and literally just how are they doing? So part of me is curious, but at the same time, also nervous for them. And kind of trying to prepare myself for the worst. Just like what Kennis was saying, I am naturally a empathetic person, especially as an immigrant myself. So mixed feelings of anticipating the work, not knowing, preparing for the emotionally taxing work that we're about to do.  Kennis Chen: Our plan was kind of changed last minute because we didn't know when we planned the trip there will no longer be a Welcome Center. Our team has to be split to separate our work in different transit centers. So I didn't expect that will be that many unexpected situation coming up.   My work on a daily basis for Chinese Digital Engagement team, is mostly on social media or monitoring the digital space. Especially because this year is election year, people are using their immigration topic as a political driven tool to get anti immigrant sentiment from people. On social media space we can see a lot of inhuman narrative flowing around. Like, Oh, these people are just number– they are not human. There are like 100 millions people coming to the border. So called border crisis. But when we go down there, I feel like these people could be my parents, you know. Some folks, they're similar age as my parents and suffer a lot to come here. We need to show more empathy to them.  If we look at the broader picture, people migrant for a place to another place. We're all looking for the good stuff. No one want to came to the state to do bad things, you know. Everyone wants came here for maybe a better future for the next generation, maybe a more stable financial situation for their family. Many of them just scared of the thing happening in their home country, and they don't feel safe, or they don't feel financially secure or politically secure; that they feel like I have to leave this place. Immigration or migration is not an easy choice for an individual. Those migrants, they have to Separate from their family for who knows how long.  When they made that decision they need to have the mentality that they probably need to suffer a lot, and they suffer for the good. We really need to see them as human. Human want to live in a safer place, live in a more financially stable place. That's why they want to come to another country. American is a place that people think is the best country in the world. It's illustrated by the mainstream media or illustrated by people's imagination. True or not, but people think it that way, for example, me as a Chinese, growing up, we think American people so free and people has money to eat and everything. We need to understand more of their reason to come to the state, other than, oh, people come here want to do crime, which is not true at all. Kelly Wong: Lots of them, that being said, we are restricted to talking to people that speak Chinese, have struggles back home economically and coming here to make a better living and to create a better future for their families.  I met a young Chinese immigrants woman between 25 to 35 years old. I met her at, one of the transit center that she got dropped off at. Her whole journey took roughly 20 days from China to a Western country to Panama. And then from there Basically going through different Latin American countries by vehicles.  The whole journey was really rough for her as a single woman. She was staying in refugee camps and really shady motels. Eventually she landed in Mexico, walking, hiking for two to three hours before crossing the border to San Diego. She is a single mom and her family suffer from bondage issues back home. She doesn't clarify what it is exactly. And she wants to earn some money on the East coast through a friend's connection, to take care of her nine year old child in China.  Her husband, her child's father is not in the picture anymore. So she's the sole provider for the family. And she actually does not plan to stay in the U. S. permanently because eventually she wants to reunite with her child back in China. She also mentioned that the economy's got worse during COVID in China, and that's why the financial situation back home is more dire. And that's kind of prompt her to think outside the box to try to make this journey.  Her experiences during the journey was really rough because she didn't get enough money to fly directly to Mexico, like lots of migrants do. If you have more money, you flew directly to Mexico and then rest there for a little bit and then walk for two to three hours or maybe a day to cross the border and that is actually relatively safe and not as rough. But for her because she doesn't have enough money, she have to go through the whole journey from Panama all the way to Mexico before crossing.  She encountered a lots of robberies, and cops in those country asking for money to cross certain areas and constantly staying on the street, refugee camps. And those places are open areas. Anything could have happened hto er or her peers. That was the kind of insecurity that she has been experiencing. Her belongings were all stolen at one point, including her passport, which is actually relatively common in these kind of journey.  My interaction with her is actually pretty memorable for me. She was very confused. She didn't even know that she was in California. She thought she was somewhere in the on the east coast. But despite feeling confused and scared, she's relatively calm and just really grateful for us being there able to speak Chinese with her, explaining where she's at, directing her to the airport to her destination and all of that. And even though she was really confused and lost during that journey, she managed to take care of other people too. She talk about coming across with a 65 years old grandmother during detention. That grandmother was also Chinese and was separated from the rest of her family– two children, a daughter-in-Law, and her son. They actually went through the whole journey through the jungle to get to San Diego. The grandmother was left alone at the detention center because She had troubles doing fingerprinting. The rest of the family were before the grandmother. The Young Chinese immigrants woman was the only one that were able to communicate in Chinese, So she was there for the grandmother, guide her through different things, calm her down when she was feeling emotional thinking she will never see her family again.  I think that really shows their resilience, how strong they are. Even though they are suffering a lot and going through a lot, they still were able to take care of one another, care for other people.  Me and this person, we sat down for two hours. We talked just like a human beings. She actually speak Cantonese too, since she from the Guangdong region and remind me of my friends because she's not too old, you know, like she's really young, just like our age. So I just really can't imagine What she has been through as a young woman myself as well.  The entire time I was by her side, guiding her. Eventually she took a shuttle to the airport and we actually both felt a little bit emotional when we parted ways, because we just connected. She gave me the warmest hug and told me that she's grateful for seeing us there and hoping that we can keep the work going to help other people. And, of course that really left a mark in my heart; that brief encounter with her. That was something that I still think about sometimes and make me emotional. Hopefully can humanize these people more than what was reported on the news. Kennis Chen: There was a young girl, maybe 20 something. Young girl. We were talking just chitchatting. And then she asked, how long have you been in the U S and I say, probably almost 10 years. And then that girl was saying, if I came here when I was in middle school, then I probably will be here for 10 years as well. Her response really inspired me to think if I didn't have the privilege to come to study for college, will I be her? Will I be in a situation that I probably also need to cross the border, go through her journey to came to this day. And sometimes, people's life is sometimes only is about luck. It's not how hard I work. My background or my family already determined something for me. They could provide me for college. I don't need to work myself for college. I don't need to pay for student loan and those kind of stuff.  If I was that girl, I probably would be in the same situation. Or if I was that uncle, I probably will did the same choice as well. I think sometimes when we think about immigration and migration, we think about so called American born, maybe they're just lucky to be born as American. It's nothing about they're better than other people, it's just they have the luck to be born in the state, and they're born with voting rights. They're born with democracy. It's not like other people don't deserve this good stuff. If they choose to believe in a better life, they should have the choice to do so. Kelly Wong: I think as an immigrant, like what Kennis just talked about, we both came here as a student and with the support from our parents and financial security that we get a job eventually here, and settle in the U. S. It's really easy to fall into the mainstream narrative of differentiating good migrants from the bad ones. From the quote unquote illegal ones, right? And not gonna lie, before entering this kind of work, that's how I feel, too I don't really know why people make those choices to go undocumented across the border. But then, came to work for Chinese for Affirmative Action, CAA. My line of work is serving migrants from different backgrounds, and that's when I realized the privilege that Kennis was talking about. I never have to make those choices of should I go through those journey to come here, should I overstay so I can make a living here or getting separated from my loved ones. That would never happen in my life because of my privilege. And I think lots of migrants or immigrants that were able to make it here in a more regular ways often think that, because we went through so much ourselves to get here, we deserve those spaces versus those who crossed the border irregularly, or, those who goes undocumented, that they do not deserve the same thing that we both we all desire, right? So when I speak to the migrants that I serve here in San Francisco, and then at the border, both regular or irregular, it's the same story. Same as the story that me and Kennis have. We come here because we want a better future for ourselves. And as much as America also too has a broken system, there's some really beautiful, beautiful things about the U. S. too. Not everything is true from what we learned since a kid about America, but this is true that it's a land of opportunities; a land of democracy, maybe not the perfect ones, but they do have democracy here. And something that lots of people don't get to enjoy back home. So these migrants that cross the border, they very much know these things and decide to pursue and have that for our children. So I think My lived experiences and my line of work really informed how I see them right now at the border.  Instead of thinking that we are better than them because we are quote unquote legal, I actually think that we're all the same essentially. And as, immigrants communities, especially Chinese migrants communities, we should help each other out instead of putting each other down or, categorizing people using certain stereotypes. Annette Wong: I think the one thing that We encounter that is difficult for people to understand is that the reasons that people are coming here today are very similar to the reasons that people have come for generations, centuries, even. Really what they're seeking is more economic opportunity and potentially more freedoms. And that has not changed over time. The current lens through which people are absorbing this news is really through mainstream media. And the way that it's painted isn't looking at people in a very human way. This is a very bad analogy, but, like ants crawling through a log or something. It's like, just look at all these hordes of people is what we hear all the time. But, really it's not different than what it has been in the past. It's really about how it's been sensationalized and because of the upcoming November election, how it's being used and leveraged to push a certain political agenda on many fronts. At the end of the day, people are coming for every human reasons they're coming because they want to survive, they want to have a better life.  For many of us who may be first, second, third generation Asian American, where our ancestors at some point had migrated, I think that that's something that we can connect with– this idea that people want to come for a better life for their families. that's something that often gets lost in all of the political football around the issue in particular. Kennis Chen: When we go out to live our life, We actually maybe already met so many undocumented friends or foes. When we met people, we did not say, Hey, could you show me your immigration document?  We're just seeing them as human beings. So we just know them as, how they work, and how we communicate, and we maybe speak each other's language so we will see them as human beings. We will not say, oh, you are undocumented, so you are less than me. Undocumented folks, they all work very hard. And just like us, they all pay taxes, but sometimes they do not get the benefits like we have. Kelly, for Kelly's work, for example, sometimes the Immigration Rights team will help people to renew their green card. For me, when I was a student, there are some restrictions for me to have to stay in my legal status. For example, if I skip a semester, then I probably could not have my student visa. Then, right now, I'm having my working visa. If I, for example, move to another state, I probably could not maintain my legal status. So even though I have a so called legal status, I already see that many restrictions. So I can imagine for people who do not have a legal status, the life might be even harder for them. I also see my privilege that holding a legal status. For example, I don't need to worry about on the street, I.C.E. (ICE) will chase after me. So they need to work, or they need to live. in a really careful way, then at the same time they sacrifice a lot of freedom to, for example, move to other places or do certain job or staying with their families. I feel we should learn from our privilege and also learn from our experience and to understand others. Annette Wong: Over the course of my years doing immigrant rights work I would say that what was different for me in coming to do this type of work in particular is actually seeing a lot of the diversity of the folks that are coming through. In that diversity, though, there is a community. And I thought that that was really beautiful and something that I did not expect. I think technology and, the World Wide Web essentially has made the world a lot smaller place.  Once the buses emptied, there was a line that formed for people to go through intake. There was clearly like a food station, a restroom station, a water station. you know, but There were also places where people could charge their phones and access internet.   People that wouldn't typically be able to communicate with one another have the technology and tools to do so. And they have just come out of this very arduous journey where they have probably a lot of shared trauma around what they saw along the way. And so there was a level of bonding between the folks that were coming through the center that I had not anticipated, but it was very beautiful to see. People that were complete strangers before, but in the process of the journey had become friends and actually built quite a bit of trust with one another. So much so that even once they arrived in the U. S., they're discussing next steps together and making decisions together about who to trust, who not to trust, et cetera.  I remember there was this one gentleman and he came up to us and he was like, well, I'm trying to get to Los Angeles and I, I don't really know how to get there. What are some of my options? Another woman who was standing nearby, also a Chinese migrant, we had been helping her try to get to the airport, overheard this conversation and she comes over and she's like, Oh, actually, I know a group of folks , over on that side of the migrant center and they're also going to LA maybe you all can catch a ride together.  People just seem so relieved to be in the United States. There was a sense of hope. Even though they were telling us we saw people that we had to leave behind in the Darien Gap. But despite seeing so much tragedy, their spirits were hopeful about what was to come here in the States. Kelly Wong: Migrants themselves, they experience a lot of language barriers among themselves. So it's a little hard to help each other, even if they want to, just because of the existing challenges of languages.  A lot of Hispanic migrants we're actually waiting at the transit center for their loved ones. Many of them, for example, husband or wife got released before the other ones. So they didn't really know how to reunite with other peoples. They end up just sitting at the transit center with other people, trying to wait for the loved ones to be released, hopefully on the same day. A couple of people, they were there for almost the entire day, maybe the day before as well, waiting for the loved ones to be released. And Instead of just waiting there doing nothing, they were actively helping each other out. I don't speak any Spanish, but people will come to me because I had information of directions, but we don't have enough Spanish speaking volunteers. Spanish speaking migrants actually came to me, I can interpret for you. I remember one of them. She's a young woman herself. She actually took the lead. Because at one point we do not have any Spanish speaking volunteers, she took the lead, copying what we told people earlier, about what's happening.  You see solidarity; a mutual understanding of how everyone is going through, and we have to help each other out. There's only so many volunteers there speaking limited languages. So migrants are stepping up for one another and passing those correct information to one another. And at that point I don't see language barriers as much– just a mutual understanding that girl just came to me– don't worry, I'm going to help. you.. She speak more English so she can do the interpretation for me. I think that's something that I did not anticipate. The resilience that we all have to function and to help each other out with limited resources. Cheryl Truong: While I was listening to Kelly tell this story I felt tears coming on. Her very comment of I didn't see language barriers as much just mutual understanding really inspires me. I am finding from these stories, from these courageous migrants. I'm going to say something really cheesy. But hear me out anyway. I am being reminded from these stories of the essence of our humanity. That when we come to one another with the deep intent to understand each other, we do, or we can, when we summoned the courage to do so.  I had a weird, but brilliant professor back in college and he. I remember he said, something like. Hopes dwelling place. Must be at the most visceral and emotional part of our being. This feels to me like a pretty promising kind of hope Doesn't it.  More stories from the Southern border after a music break, so don't go anywhere.  Cheryl: Welcome back. You are tuned into apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org.. We were just listening to “Acceptance” by Gavin grant from The Khamsa Project.  Annette Wong: When you're coming through the border and you get processed by CBP, men and women are separated and they're processed separately. So when the buses arrive at the transit center, It's a bus full of men and then a bus full of women, bus full of men, bus full of women. So people are essentially being separated from their family members if you're traveling with opposite sex people.  There was one bus that got off that was predominantly women. And we saw this one Chinese woman. So we approached her, and we noticed that she was using Google translate to communicate with a Georgian family. The Georgian family, was a male and there were two females. The male looked at me and he started pointing at his ring on his ring finger. And you know, I kind of gathered, okay, he's looking for his wife. He can't find his wife. And so he, he expressed that it's actually his wife and his kid. They were talking to the Chinese woman because they were asking if the Chinese woman had seen the wife and the child in the interview process, because the husband wasn't privy to what happened to the women. The Chinese woman was saying yes because they started showing a photo of the wife and the child. she was like yes, I saw her. We were processed at the same time, but I don't know what happened to her. So the Georgian family was asking, did she get on the bus with you? And the Chinese woman said no. And the Georgian family was like, why, what happened to her? And the Chinese woman was like, I don't know. It was really a heartbreaking kind of moment to see the desperation in people's eyes. I was watching the Georgian family. They were approaching all the women that were waiting on the sidewalk and they were just showing this photo on the camera phone. Have you seen her? Did you see her? Just going person to person. And eventually we figured out because there was a child in the picture, those people went straight to a shelter. The husband was relieved to find that out, took off and went to go to the shelter to try to meet them. But it was just one of those things; a very surreal and sad scene watching the family show the photo to anybody that would listen, even though they couldn't communicate in any kind of shared language, but everybody knew what they were looking for to because other families were experiencing the same thing; separation from their family members. It's ridiculous that people have to go through that level of anxiety, and for them I did hear that they were able to reunite within the same day. Which doesn't always happen.   Another woman was also waiting for her husband. She had been waiting days.  Typically, at The transit center, one of the organizations would have staff who would be coordinating for the day. That staff person would be making announcements every time the buses came, handing out flyers to people, they would be directing the flow of volunteers, you do this you cover that. But at times, there were limitations on the number of staff, people were really operating on a very shoestring kind of operation where sometimes there's only one staff person, and there's more volunteers than there are staff.  One of the days we were at the site, it was nearing four o'clock or so and the staff person said to us I've been here since 7am. I have to go. There's supposed to be another lead volunteer but they haven't arrived yet. Can you guys just watch the situation, receive more buses, do the orientation spiel for the newly arrived folks. We had only been there for a couple days, but the fact that they were just going to leave this in our hands because they really just had no other support was not shocking necessarily, but sad how little infrastructure was in place. And it's not the fault of the organizations. It's really just a lack of support from the local city and county to provide infrastructure for these kinds of releases.  Annette Wong: So we're like, yeah, sure, we'll take care of it. They pointed me to this lady who was Sitting near all of the staff materials. I had seen her around the first day that we had been there and then of course the second day. I recognized her but I hadn't really talked to her because she only spoke Spanish. The staff person before she left was like. This woman is actually waiting for her husband, and she's been waiting for six days, and every day she just comes back and waits at the bus station. And so she has come to know the process that people go through when they arrive, so she's willing to help. So if you can utilize her support, utilize her support because she's a Spanish speaker and none of us spoke fluent Spanish. I was grateful to have her support, but also very sad for her situation. The fact that she had waited so long that she has no idea when her husband's going to come, if he's going to come. But then the fact that she wanted to help people was just also very beautiful and amazing. She and I started to coordinate because she was the only one who could communicate with the Spanish speakers that also knew how this operation runs. So we worked very closely with her. To try to help Spanish speaking migrants arrive and be able to get to where they needed to go, whether it was the airport or the Greyhound or wherever they were headed.  There's a lot of these, like, I wish that we didn't have to always look for that silver lining to give us hope. Because we really shouldn't have to deal with these kinds of situations to begin with. But it's the reality of what's happening now because there's no infrastructure, there's no process, there's no federal immigration reform, there's no local infrastructure to support people that are coming through. It really is just the dedication and hard work of the advocates at the organizations that are based out of San Diego that are doing this work. Kennis Chen: I remember when I first come to the state for school and my luggage was delayed and I couldn't find my luggage. I was so nervous because it's completely new environment for me. And I spoke relatively fluent English and staff couldn't understand the English I spoke, so they couldn't help me . You're seeing how people are being treated when they don't speak English, and how less information they could gather when they don't speak the dominated language in the U. S. And the service they get is also very limited. How can we expect people to live a same life as U. S. Born folk when they do not get the same amount of information they could get her just like the example that Kelly provided. Even if you want to gather some government provided documents where you want to get public resources. The information you got just maybe 20 percent or 30 percent the same as the amount that if you could read English. It's unfair for folks. Language and also community are super segregated in the U. S. For example, folks in Chinatown, they could only live in Chinatown because They probably don't speak so called perfect English because it's very hard for them to live in other area in their city. The way that we are limiting the resources for the people who in need is just so insane to me.  Kelly Wong: After going to one of the transit centers and noticing that a lot of Chinese migrants gravitate towards unlicensed drivers who are Chinese migrants themselves, because they're the only one that are Chinese speaking. And when they look at us, they're confused who we are. Even though we speak Chinese, there's still differences, right? Those drivers went through the same thing that they went through. So automatically there might be some trust over there. And we also noticed that there might be some gender dynamics there. Everyone except for one colleague, are, immigrant woman. And many of us are young woman, who back home Oftentimes not seen as authority figure, right? They just think that we're kids, right? Some people when they see us, they might not associate us with authority or people that actually have knowledge to share  On the first date. Kennis make this suggestions of maybe we should make a big sign saying that we are volunteers and we're here to provide some immigration services or basic information if they need it. And we have a free buses to the airport, you don't have to pay those drivers to get to your destination.  Kennis Chen: Not saying those unlicensed drivers are bad people or something like that, but because they were the only one, they sometimes might be seen as authority because they were the only one who were there giving Chinese information. So whatever they say might be seen as truth to those Chinese migrants. As volunteers, we definitely want Chinese migrants to get accurate and reliable resources that we can provide. So we're there making sign and say, Hey, please talk to us. We have free shuttle bus to the airport. Please don't get to the unlicensed driver first, because definitely those people are making money. They're doing business, which I respect, but I don't want them to be the only reliable sources there.  I really see the potential threat that this driver could cause. Because again, if people want to make a living out of their challenging situation, I could not imagine what they would do. And given that because they are also migrants, they probably do not have the work permit right away so they probably need to do certain stuff to make a living. So if they would be the only resources there, then they literally could do anything. Because there's no certain thing to prevent them to do so. Maybe a little bit extreme example could be human trafficking or stuff like that. That could also happen, so we try to hand it out. resources for anti human trafficking hotline and stuff like that to the migrants. I told them, don't trust anything you hear. And be careful about stuff. Like for example, people try to hire you or people try to say, Oh, I could give you a job right away and stuff like that. Maybe try to be more cautious about that.  Kelly Wong: So that's kind of how we try to navigate that dynamics. That being said, like what Kennis was saying, we also respect those drivers are trying to make a living. At the same time, we also want to make sure those new migrants that were just released knows what's going on and they're actually entitled to just get on the free buses to the airport instead of paying God knows how many money they have to pay for a trip to airport or other places.  Kennis Chen: I want to compliment the mentality of those migrants. They are very strong. I could not imagine that if I go through the whole journey and then be captured in the CBP border for a couple days, how would I look? I probably would be very upset and very worried and probably anxious. But those migrant, Every one of them, they're so sweet and they're so optimistic and they express so many gratitude to us. Even though they don't speak the same language, they were like gracias. And thank you, sister. . I feel really like inspiring. even though people at their lowest, they still could share so many appreciation and gratitude to others. So I really just hope them all the best. Kelly Wong: one point, I was helping a Muslim Arabic speaking family. I met this young girl. And she looks so confused. She was crying when she got off from the bus. So I approached her. We were able to communicate through Google Translate.  She told me, she didn't know where her husband is. Her husband doesn't have phones, all the phones were with her. And she doesn't have even one dime of money, nothing. It was a desperate situation. You don't know where your husband is. You don't have any money. She was really panicking. I told her to, you know, stay calm. Don't worry. Hopefully your husband will come in soon. Even though we don't really speak the same language, she actually kept following me the entire time. She told me she wanted to stay beside me, which I was like, yeah, don't worry. If you feel safer, you can stay beside me. And then luckily her husband was there for the next bus. Actually, not too long and not too far away. It was, I think maybe within 30 minutes, her husband came down and I saw them reunited. I was really moved just to see them hugging. And her husband also have some friends that also crossed the border together. So they were all reunited one big family. She came to me and just telling me sister. That's when they start calling me and the other folks sister. Thank you so much for being there for me. And then she told her husband what had happened. So her husband then call me sister to. And then she just gave me the warmest hug. She told me thank you so much. When I was panicking, you were there for me. And the husband, they were so cute. They were young couples. The husband speak English and told me that they have never been apart from each other for more than one day. So the fact that they were separated for two days was very scary for both of them. And then, he tell me that she is the love of his life. Before they went onto the bus, they turn around and call me– goodbye, sister, and God bless you. To this day, it's really moving and keep me going. Annette Wong: I think that this idea of like family reunification is definitely one that rings true for my family as well. Not in the micro sense of , getting off of buses and looking for your family, but a lot of my family's migration history is one of seeking family reunification. My mom actually came to the United States to reunite with her dad, my grandfather in 1968 after the immigration act. What happened was my grandfather had come to the United States first to find a job, make some money, get the home ready to bring over my grandmother, his wife, and then their two daughters. When my grandmother came, unfortunately my grandfather had actually. done his own thing and found himself another family. But the initial desire to come was for that a family reunification. My grandmother wanted to be with her husband. She wanted my mom and my aunt to be with their dad.  The grandmother that I just mentioned, her mother, ended up coming to the United States to reunite with my grandma and my grand uncle, her son. Within the same family, multiple points and multiple generations of family reunification being end goal and the end desire of all of this. For these different generations, my mom was in her twenties when she came, my grandmother was in her forties. My great grandmother was older at the time. When I think about the journeys that people took at those points in their lives, where they probably had established themselves to some extent , but, to leave all that behind, to reunite with family is something that came up during the trip as . This, constant reminder that people want to be with those that they care about. People want to be united with their family. They don't necessarily want to have to go through all this struggle in order to do so, but that's what love is, right? Like that's what love is about.  Kennis Chen: I want to appreciate the volunteer there. Because though our colleague were there for like three days, we were literally so exhausted. I couldn't feel my leg every day. Those volunteer there are from 7 a. m. to 7 p. m. every single day. when you talk to people and when you need to help people, you need to open yourself as well. So you're being vulnerable and sometimes it's just physically, mentally exhausted.  Many volunteer, they are women of color and they're so strong. , I could not imagine life or the world will continue without them. They're just like so strong, so resilient. Part of me was worried because they are all volunteer groups that doing this at their own capacity without the budget they need. And the other part of me think, whatever the challenge would be, they will find a way to get through because they are just like so strong and so human. They're just like beautiful human. I just appreciate the opportunity to see them and work with them. Kelly Wong: We were only there days. We were tired. I slept through the whole weekend. These people are continuously perservering every single day.  the beginning of our interview, we talked about how things just changes within a few days. We do not have migrant center anymore. Within a few days. I don't know how they do it. Within a few days they were able to produce info sheets from multiple languages. I stopped counting. I think at least 8 to 10 languages that I saw of how to get to airport, where you're at, if you have questions, try to do this and that. They ran all the of shelters that host children and their parents. They managed to arrange buses from another nonprofit to transport Migrants from one transit center another one and eventually to the airport so people won't be stuck at one place and creates issue for the local residents too .They have to react on the spot and figure out how to do all of that.  So to see how resilient, quick they are to respond to all this ongoing changes, and frankly problems one after another is, just so inspiring to me as a fellow person to also do direct services.  Annette Wong: The patchwork of immigration laws that we have holding our immigration system together has not been updated for over 20 years. It desperately needs an overhaul. When we're talking about lack of federal action, what does that actually mean? We're talking about comprehensive immigration reform. The world has changed so much in the last 25, 30 years. Globalization. The economy. geopolitical relationships with other countries. Everything has changed so much yet our immigration system has not been updated to reflect it. Ever changing needs of our world. I think that is one of the things that would help address the situation. And not in a way that is. all about punishment and punitive measures. What we're hearing now is immigration is going to be one of the top issues for the upcoming November election, and what everybody's talking about is cracking down on border enforcement. Nobody's talking about where is the pathway for the 11 million? Where is the, humanitarian aid and humanitarian relief for folks that are seeking that. We're not really hearing about that side of things. And I think that's where we hope to see more emphasis is on a more inclusive policy package rather than what we're seeing now, which is just exclusion and punishment, . So, I think that's one level of infrastructure. I think the other level of infrastructure is how do people manage, how do cities and counties manage the influxes. And then also for the receiving city– people going to places like New York, like LA, like San Francisco. Making sure that there's infrastructure there in those cities as well, whether it is temporary shelters, whether it is immigration legal services that are free and low cost or accessing jobs while people are navigating their immigration paperwork. There's a lot of things that localities have been planning for, some are doing very well. Some are needing more local support in order to enact around providing support to migrants. But this kind of thing will help because when migrants can land on their feet and integrate into the local neighborhood, the local economy, et cetera, it will help make things better for everybody. It will be a better life for the migrant. It will also be something that can help a neighborhood thrive. And so I think that's really what we're hoping to see in terms of investments and support for migrants that are coming into the country.  Cheryl Truong: and that's the end of our show! Learn more about the incredible work of Chinese for affirmative action in the show notes.. Speakers and readers of Chinese will also be able to find Kennis' justice patch article written in Chinese, as well as the podcast that Kennis and Kelly made about this very trip.  Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – 03.28.24 – Stories from the Southern Border appeared first on KPFA.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   A teach-in by Queer Crescent in collaboration with Palestinian Feminist Collective – Palestine is a Queer Issue: Resisting Pinkwashing Now and Until Liberation. Featuring guest speakers Rabab Abdulhadi from Palestinian Feminist Collective, Ghadir Shafie of ASWAT, Shivani Chanillo from Lavender Phoenix, poetry by Mx Yaffa from Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity (MASGD). Moderator by Shenaaz Janmohamed of Queer Crescent. Important Links and Resources: Sign on to Queer Crescent's Ceasefire Campaign for LGBTQI+ organizations and leaders Queer Crescent's Pinkwashing Resources  Queer Crescent Website Palestinian Feminist Collective Website ASWAT Instagram (@aswatfreedoms) Lavender Phoenix Website Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity (MASGD) Website Purchase Blood Orange by Mx. Yaffa Transcript Shenaaz Janmohamed: Thank you all so much for being here today. Welcome to the “Resisting Pinkwashing Now Until Liberation” teach-in. Queer Crescent is honored to host this teach in in partnership with the Palestinian Feminist Collective, Lavender Phoenix, The Muslim Alliance for Gender and Sexual Diversity or MASGD, Teaching Palestine, and Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diaspora Studies   Thank you all so much for joining us and for tuning in. My name is Shenaaz Janmohamed. I use she and they pronouns. I'm the executive director of Queer Crescent.  Queer Crescent is really thrilled to offer this Teach-in and to be in learning with you all for the next hour and a half on Pinkwashing in particular, as we hold grief and rage and mourn towards healing, towards resistance, towards a free Palestine. Joining the resounding people all across the world who have been calling for a permanent ceasefire. To not let the violence and the destruction of Gaza go without our clear and determined voice to say that this is not okay, that we, our tax dollars should not be paying for this, that we do not consent to genocide. And as queer people, as trans people, it is very much a queer issue to be in solidarity with Palestine. For the next hour and a half we will take time to learn from Palestinian organizers. in Palestine, in the U. S., around the ways in which this moment can be used to understand our relationship to pinkwashing in particular and to Palestinian solidarity in general. And so thank you again for being with us today. We're going to start our Teach in with poetry, because we deeply believe as a queer Muslim organization in the power of cultural work, cultural change, and imparting our shine as queer people into the culture. That is the way that our people have survived. That is the way that people share their histories their survivalship is through culture. And so, before I bring up Yaffa, who's a dear friend and comrade, and also the executive director of MASGD, the Muslim Alliance for Gender and Sexual Diversity, let me introduce Yaffa. Yaffa is a trans Muslim and displaced indigenous Palestinian. She is sharing poetry from her new book, Blood Orange, shout it out, please get a copy if you haven't already, which is an emotional, important, and timely poetry collection. Their writings probe the yearning for home, belonging, mental health, queerness, transness, and other dimensions of marginalization while nurturing dreams of utopia against the background of ongoing displacement and genocide of Indigenous people. Join me in giving some shine, energetic shine to Yaffa, and I'll pass to you. Mx Yaffa: Hi everyone. It's so nice to be here with you all. So excited to share space with all of you, with all the incredible panelists, with the entire Queer Crescent team, y'all are just incredible. Right before this, me and one of the other panelists realized we could potentially be related. So that's the beauty of having spaces like this, where you connect with people that you've kind of been missing your entire life, but you didn't even know that they were missing. I'm excited to recite some poetry for you all from my new collection. Just a little bit about the collection before I recite some poetry.  This collection was written for the most part, on the weekend of October 13th to the 15th. Some of y'all might remember that there was an eclipse during that weekend. And I really wanted to find something that would really center queer and trans Palestinian experience in particular, and also would just support me in navigating my own processing of everything that's going on.  I have family both in Gaza and the West Bank still. I'm originally from Jaffa and Jenin, but I've kind of lived in nine different countries. So when I say I'm displaced, it's displacement from various different wars, various genocides, various everything. And the result of that was Blood Orange.  I tried to get it out as quickly as possible and here we are. The first poem that I'll read is called “Healthy”. And I'll talk a little bit about each of these poems after I read them. It's called “Healthy”. We are not meant to be okay, when genocide is our neighbor that is funded by our labor. We are meant to be a mess, our sleep tearing into reality, anxiety brewing, wondering what is hope. We are meant to tear at the seams of reality, realizing a reality built on oppression is bullshit. We are meant to realize and demand all we are worth. Self actualization, wholeness. Things systems built off of genocide can never. Our response labeled by western capitalism as wrong is healthy. We move to wholeness always, they move to pain attempting to drag us with them. So this was actually the very first poem that I wrote for this collection and it was in that first week of the genocide immediately following October 7th when so many people were really struggling with what do we do with all of this, right? We're witnessing an entire genocide right before our eyes. And what do we do? There was a lot of hopelessness going around and a lot of narratives, at least in what's known as the United States and the global north that's always told us that all of that is wrong. That we're not supposed to be overwhelmed by things. But for me, with all the practices that I have, it's actually healthy to be overwhelmed right now. We're not supposed to know how to let genocide live in our bodies with ease. We still show up, we still do the things, and yet at the same time, we honor it. That it is a large experience. This is not normal. This is not something that should be happening all the time or ever. And so really wanted to honor that of the world that we live in is not what we deserve. For us to be overwhelmed right now is actually healthy, is where we should be. So the second poem I will read kind of goes into the conversation of today around pinkwashing.  This one's called “At Odds”.  My transness and a colonized perception of Palestine are at odds. They think it's because of lack of modernity. I say I have only received death threats targeting my transness from white people, Zionists, and other various political affiliations. I say only white people around me have ever disowned their own. Yet I do not talk to sisters who choose to buy into imperialist transphobia, claiming it as their own. My parents do not understand how some of their children could hate anything any of their children could be, why anyone would hate what they do not know. I won't talk much about pinkwashing because I know we'll get to that today. But in particular, most queer and trans Palestinians over these last eight weeks have been receiving such immense violence from the broader LGBTQ community telling us that our people are the ones who are going to kill us. I've been receiving death threats my entire life in particular as an organizer since I was 19, and I have literally never received a death threat from anyone from our region from any Muslim person. It has always been white people who have sent me death threats specifically for my queerness and my transness. Let alone everything else. And so that, that poem just kind of honors that experience.  I'll read one more, and I'll say just a few words before I read this last one. For me, the arts are so important. Not just as a tool for resistance, but also as a tool for world building. Often we think of the world is what creates art, rather than art is what creates the world. If you look at literature, even with Zionism, Zionism was in literature 100 years before it was ever named. I think about that of what is the world that we are building, what is the world of tomorrow that we get to write about and paint about and do all different kinds of art forms about today. And so this last poem kind of brings a little bit of that into it. The collection goes into the topic of utopia as we're exploring all of these other things. and as we're experiencing this genocide. So this last poem is called “Land Back”. I do not know names wiped from time in Gaza Like I do not remember the names Of great uncles and aunts Who have been reclaimed by our land To say they were murdered Is to claim loss that our land will never feel For we are made of her And regardless of how many layers of phosphor fill the air We return to her in our deaths They may exacerbate the process of our return, but return we shall. Standing thousands of miles away, I know even here she will take me back for distance is a creation that is buried with bodies that were never ours. We are not the ones who take land back, it is land that takes us. There will come a day when the sun sets on a world and rises in another, when indigenous sovereignty is honored. Where queerness no longer exists, where transness is no longer an identity, where humanity means something genuine. So I wanted to end with that, on a note of everything that we're doing right now, all of the resistance is world building. We're building the world that we have always deserved. So I'll leave you all with just one final thing about the book, like I mentioned, the reason I wrote this book in the first place and published it is to raise awareness about queer and trans Palestinians in particular and our experiences, and also to fundraise for queer and trans Palestinians both on the grounds in Gaza and in the diaspora. So 100 percent of all the proceeds from Blood Orange go directly towards that.   As we're getting deeper and deeper into this, the needs of the queer and trans Palestinian community is getting so immense, both on the ground in the region and in the diaspora. Over just the last few days, I've received over $20,000 worth of requests from individuals because people are being doxed, people are receiving death threats, people are losing their jobs. In one case, people are losing their children. There's a lot happening. And so just wanted to leave with that. I want to invite you all to pay attention to those needs and honor them, especially as we go into next year and into the elections. Thank you again for having me. It was such a pleasure to be here. And I'm so excited for the rest of this. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Thank you so much, Yaffa. It's so wonderful to have you here. And it feels so important to start our teaching with the ways in which poetry, culture, moves and inspires us. It opens our hearts in ways that feel both healing and necessary as part and parcel to our organizing and our deep learning. As my comrade and partner Saba says, to growing our empathy to be able to show up with more depth, more commitment, and more resolve towards these issues because we are deeply interconnected. So thank you again, Yaffa..  Before I turn to introduce our other panelists, I wanted to just ground us for a moment in why Queer Crescent, along with the many partners that I named at the beginning felt it was important to host this teach in. Back on November 3rd, Queer Crescent in collaboration with the Palestinian Feminist Collective drafted and released a letter calling upon LGBTQI organizations, leaders, and influencers to join Queer Crescent and Palestinians in calling for an immediate ceasefire. And in particularly to take up understanding and resisting pinkwashing as a queer issue. The frame ” Palestine is a queer issue” is very much an homage of Palestinian Feminist Collective who tirelessly make the links around gender justice, bodily autonomy, self determination, sovereignty to the project of Palestinian liberation. Seeing them as part and parcel of the same project of liberation, and we very much are inspired and in deep gratitude to PFC and all the tireless folks who make those links so clear and apparent to us. We are also in deep gratitude to organizations like Al-Qaws, based in Palestine, who have been telling us about pink- washing for a long, long time, and we are finally doing our part to answer the call as an organization as Queer Crescent. Since we shared this letter, over 350 individuals have signed on, over 65 organizations have joined us in a commitment to calling for permanent ceasefire. This teach in is part of our commitment to moving those who have signed, ourselves included, and the many others who have joined us today. To deepen our shared resolve to a free Palestine through learning about pink watching as a propaganda tool of Israel and settler colonial state violence, and to allow this moment to transform us so that the grief is not in vain, towards a more fierce committed and clear stance of solidarity with Palestinian liberation movement. As queer and trans people and within LGBTQI organizations, we have a distinct role to play to organize to undermine pinkwashing. Because pinkwashing works and functions on the backs of racist tropes of Palestinians, Arabs, SWANA, and Muslims more broadly. We cannot let our vulnerabilities as trans and queer people be exploited in the pursuit of colonial violence and the genocide against Palestinians and all indigenous people. It was not surprising that some of the first folks who signed on to our letter were trans led organizations like the Transgender Law Center, like El/La, and indigenous organizations. It's not surprising because I think for folks who are leading trans led organizations, Trans and indigenous organizations, the relationship of self determination of bodily autonomy and to state violence and colonization is clear, right? Because ultimately colonization uses gender injustice and creating these wedges within our communities as a way to dampen our resistance and to keep us apart. So, I don't want to say more because our amazing speakers will speak and illuminate so much more of these issues. But I wanted to just state why it was important for Queer Crescent to support advancing these conversations. So, our first speaker today is Ghadir Shafie ( she and her). She is a Palestinian queer activist and the co founder of ASWAT, Palestinian Feminist Queer Center for Sexual and Gender Freedoms. A passionate advocate for the intersectionality of the struggle of Palestinian queer women, fighting multiple forms of oppression as Palestinians in the context of Israel's system of apartheid, military occupation, and settler colonialism, as women in a militaristic and imperialistic male dominated society, and as queers in the context of pinkwashing and homophobia. Ghadir promotes active solidarity for Palestine through global feminism and with queers. Thank you, Ghadir. Pass it to you.  Ghadir Shafie: Thank you so much. Hello from Palestine. Thank you so much for organizing this teach-in on pinkwashing. I am grateful for your presence here with me, witnessing in this horrible, horrible time. I will speak today for about 15 minutes, and I want you to bear in mind that since October 7th, Israel has killed over 18, 000 Palestinians. That is one Palestinian every 15 minutes. Imagine how many queer people are being killed daily by Israel. The scenes from Gaza are beyond description. They defy comparison, even for Palestinians, jaded by decades of occupation and settler colonial violence. Devastated landscape filled with craters and the blackened ruins of what were once people's homes, dead bodies or pieces of them. Orphaned children screaming in terror and incomprehension. Desperate survivors crying for food and water. Doctors despairing at the ever growing influx of wounded people they know they cannot treat. As a queer Palestinian watching these images of horror, one stood out as particularly revolting in a rather different way. It shows an Israeli soldier in the middle of the rubble of one of the many residential neighborhoods in Gaza, flattened by the Israeli indiscriminate military strikes. In the distance, smoke from Israel's carpet bombings hang in the air. The soldier is surrounded by Israeli tanks and demolish everything in their way. It is a scene of death and destruction The soldier stands holding a bright new rainbow flag. and Described it as a message of hope.  What hope can there be for 2.3 million Palestinians trapped over 16 years in the occupied and besieged Gaza Strip. In the words of UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres, Gaza has become a graveyard for Palestinians. They have no water. No food and no electricity as Israel has cut off what little it allowed in through its already suffocating siege. They seek shelter from Israeli bombings in hospital, UN schools, mosques, and churches, only to find these sites targeted by Israeli strikes. Those who can flee their homes along Israeli designated safe corridors only to have their vehicles shelved by the Israeli IDF soldiers. It seems incomprehensible that an Israeli soldier would pose a photo with a rainbow flag while participating in his army's mass slaughter of Palestinians and destruction of half of Gaza's homes. The truth is more sinister yet. This stunt, which was shared online by the Israeli state official social media accounts, is a textbook. example of obscene colonial pinkwashing. More than that, it is a pinkwashing on steroids. For years, Palestinian queers have denounced Israel's pinkwashing, a cynical strategy designed to use self proclaimed support for LGBTQIA plus rights as a pink smokescreen to conceal its 75 years regime of apartheid, which oppresses all Palestinians, no matter of our gender. or sexual orientation. All the while singling out queer Palestinians for persecution and blackmail. It is an attempt to falsely depict Israel as modern and a liberal country while diverting attention from its alignment with far right homophobic regimes and groups around the world and its current fundamentalist, racist, and homophobic government. In addition, Israel's pinkwashing agenda is a colonial tool that has the racist aim to misrepresent Palestinians as backwards, homophobic, and thus not deserving of human rights. It also tries to convince us, as queer and trans people, that we are somehow foreign in our society, and tries to turn us against our Palestinians brothers and sisters. I think there couldn't be any better example of Israeli pink washing than the photo that the Israeli soldier with the rainbow flag in the rubble. Israeli pink washing has always been dishonest and dangerous. It has always been racist and colonial. It has allowed Israel to continue its ethnic cleansing, besiege, imprisonment, and murder of Palestinians, queer and non queer alike, for decades. Now it's being used to cover up for genocide. In these dark times, Palestinians in besieged Gaza are bearing the brunt of Israel's full blown genocidal war and ethnic cleansing. Palestinians in the occupied Palestinian territories of West Bank, meanwhile, are also facing escalating waves of killing, torture by both Israeli military and illegal sectors. Apartheid, for Palestinians like myself inside Israel, is reaching new peaks as Israeli forces are targeting and suppressing any expression of sympathy with the oppressed. As hard as it is, we still maintain hope. We have no other choice. That hope comes from the grassroots mobilization that are forcing complicit governments and institutions to finally call for the bare minimum that is nevertheless the absolute priority: a ceasefire that will put a stop to Israel's carpet bombing and genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. Queer groups have been extremely instrumental in our struggle for liberation. Queer groups have been an important part of the mobilizations. Nearly 40 LGBT, QA plus groups across Southwest Asia and North Africa called for the immediate ceasefire stating ” we stand with justice, equality, progress, and liberty.” Throughout my life as a queer activist, I have proudly held the rainbow flag high as a symbol of queer inclusion, queer struggle, queer liberation, queer equality, and queer joy. The Israeli soldier participating in Israel's genocidal war on my people in Gaza has desecrated the flag, has disgraced the flag, and made it a mockery for all it stands for. Queer and trans people and groups are increasingly seeing through the pink smokescreen and rejecting Israel's pinkwashing and its war crimes and crimes against humanity. We will not stand by as our flag and our identities are co opted and used to justify a genocide. I call upon queer allies around the globe to remember none of us is free until we are all free. What can we do right now in these terrible times? Since 2005, Palestinians have proposed to you, our friends around the world, an entirely nonviolent method of ending Israel's power over our lives. An academic and cultural boycott of Israel. This strategy is known as BDS, Boycott, Digestment and Sanctions. BDS means boycotting all Israeli state sponsored institutions. This is not aimed at individuals, but at institutions financed by the state and that serve as extensions of the government that occupies us and keeps us under siege. We ask academics, staff and students not to speak at Israeli state funding organizations, including universities. We ask artists and cultural workers not to perform in apartheid Israel. Make sure that your universities are divested from Israeli money. Do not take israeli money for your conferences or film festivals. Do not accept deceptively free propaganda trips to Israel. End complicity with the government of Israel by among other things, cancelling all joint projects activities that are complicit with Israeli universities. Right now, the main demand is to stop the genocide. Stop the genocide and ask for ceasefire now.  So how can queer groups and queer people support queer liberation in Palestine?. One effort that is happening right now around the world is Queer Cinema for Palestine. Queer cinema for Palestine is a vibrant event that happens globally, established in 2021 to support queer art and queer cinema around the world. Today, there are more than 270 filmmakers and artists who signed our pledge to boycott Israeli film festival, to boycott Israeli institutions, and support queer liberation in Palestine. Queer Cinema for Palestine is happening online in more than 15 locations around the world from the 2nd until the 10th of December. Under the title, There's No Pride in Genocide, we gather together as artists to support, Queer Cinema for Palestine and the Palestinian struggle for liberation. There's not much to say. I think you've seen the image from Gaza. You've seen what is happening right now. This is not a regular panel on pinkwashing. It's happening during a genocide, where pinkwashing is also used to promote genocide. So, may I ask you as a Palestinian and as a queer Palestinian, please keep talking about Palestine. Palestine is a queer issue. Gaza is a queer issue, and there's no queer justice until we are all free. Thank you so much for organizing this and thank you so much for your work and activism on Palestine. You are saving lives right now. Thank you. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Thank you so much, Ghadir. Thank you so much for your passion, your commitment, reminding us that hope is an active choice that you're engaging in every day, despite all the odds, because that is the story of survival. Thank you for reminding and being so clear in the link to BDS boycott, divestment and sanction movement as tangible ways that we could be in solidarity with Palestine and to chip at the far reaching power of the Israeli state and settler colonial project. Thank you for showing the ways in which queer folks and queer organizations. use culture and art to tell different stories of survival with the Queer Cinema for Palestine. And thank you for showing up and being here with us. Thank you for all the ways that you hold communities, your fullness, and time to share and to lead us today. Wishing so much protection and safety to you and yours. Next we have Rabab Abdulhadi. Rabab Abdulhadi (she/her) is an internationally known scholar and distinguished professor and researcher. Her scholarship, pedagogy, and public activism focus on Palestine, Arab, and Muslim communities and their diasporas, transnational feminisms, and gender and sexuality studies. She is the Director and Senior Scholar in the Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diaspora Studies, and a Associate Professor of Ethnic Studies, Race and Resistance Studies at the Historic College of Ethnic Studies, San Francisco State University. She is also a treasure, a beloved teacher, organizer here in the Bay. I feel really grateful that you're here with us today for all the work, all the times that you've taught me. It's really such an honor to be able to host you and invite you in, Rabab.  Rabab Abdulhadi: Thank you so much Shenaaz, and I begin by acknowledging that my own university, San Francisco State University, sits on stolen indigenous Ohlone people's land, and I'm now on the east coast of the United States, where I am also present on the Lenape people's land that has been stolen and people have been displaced, just like it is in Palestine. I also want to thank Queer Crescent for organizing this with the Palestinian Feminist Collective and actually joining with Palestinian Voices. I'm very happy that my colleague, my sister, my sibling, Ghadir, was able to join us and has actually taken a lot of the things that I was going to focus on, and thank you, Yaffa, for especially naming even the poetry, Blood Oranges, because we know what oranges mean and how they have been used. And many Palestinians can't even eat oranges because it reminds them of the orchards that they've lost back home. So I start, if you don't mind, just Putting the first slide on. Yeah. And this is a slide if people can see it. This is actually was done in 2013 and it was organized by a group of underground artists, called themselves cultural jammers, to remake all the campaign that was at the time by Pamela Geller and other Zionist groups doing all this smearing and buying sides on the buses and so on. And the reason I mentioned because there is a connection between the cultural jammers and also the whole naming of pink washing because pink washing, some people say, emerged in Palestine. Some people say it emerged in the U. S. Some people talk about the whole question of washing and then the question of pink and so on. And I think for me as a researcher, a scholar, it's very, very interesting because there are so many origins of every single way that we are having the struggles. And so the colonial boundaries and borders that the colonialists and settler colonists try to impose upon us don't really work because we cross these borders at least maybe imaginary, maybe in our networks and so on. But why is it that pinkwashing persists? Ghadir spoke a lot about it. I'm just going to just emphasize a couple of things. It is necessary, very important for Israel public relations. Public relations is a very important project for it. This is why Israel consistently demands of the Palestinians and the Arab countries and the world, not only to recognize Israel's right to exist, but to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, which in itself a very racist notion. And this is very much connected with the genocide that we're seeing now in Gaza, that also we have seen for 75 years of Nakba and for over 100 years of colonization of Palestine, because , the slogan by the Zionist movement was “a land without people, for a people without the land.” We can talk about “for people without the land” a little bit later, but let's talk about “a land without people”. In order to accomplish that and legitimize it, you have to arrest the people. You have to erase them. You have to erase their presence. You have to also discredit their discourse, their work, their culture, their interaction, their social relations, in order for you to present yourself as Israel does. And as Ghadir mentioned, as a modern state that is making the desert blue, which we know is not true, and by contrast, is the best friend of women and queer people, as a gay haven, as opposed to quote unquote the backward, savage. excessively homophobic, excessively misogynist, Arab world, Arab and Muslim world, and in which Arab men and Arab and Muslim and Palestinian men are presented as irrational, bloodthirsty, misogynist, haters of women and Queer people, and as women as being docile, as being only oppressed constantly, and need to be rescued by the colonists who will come in and basically realize what Gayatri Spivak spoke about I don't know, 30 years ago, the colonist project of trying to save brown people from brown communities and queer people from their own queer communities. And so in order for this to work, it has to be presented in all of these things that it is necessary. And it's very important for Israel to focus on its public relations. And this is something that has been actually very part and parcel of since the foundation of the state of Israel in 1948, a task that was assigned to the military, to the security of interior affairs to the Mossad, which is the CIA, outside intelligence, Shambit, the internal intelligence to everybody. And now we see more and more the Ministry of Strategic Affairs and other is, and the whole question of quote unquote branding, which I put it in parentheses because branding also refers to the ways in which people engage in slavery actually used to quote brand people whose lives they owned. So I put it in parentheses. I question it. But Israel is very big on that to brand Israel as a gay haven. Israel as a best liberator of women and so on.  This is also what we see today in the sense of Israel actually making a very public relation campaign and a very, very intensive campaign to claim that Palestinians have chopped off the head of children, which was even reiterated by the president of the United States without even thinking about it because he was quoting Israeli Officials who we know are not really known for telling the truth and then they had to retract it the second day but yesterday he repeated the same thing again and said there is the rape of women and so on which we do not have any evidence until now. We know that a lot of Israeli groups and Zionist groups like this group Bonat Alternativa and others are alleging, but we haven't seen any evidence of that. If there is any evidence of that, we will not stand for it. We condemn any kind of violations of gender and sexual, justice because we believe that gender and sexual justice is part and parcel with indivisibility of justice. So this is not something we are trying to cover, but this is very much part and parcel of the Israeli propaganda and it's churning machine, the Hasbara machine is everywhere and they keep changing their stories. And if we have time we can actually go over how each story has developed and moved from one place to the other. I'm also talking about the ways in which colonial feminisms or colonial quote unquote feminism, because feminism is supposed to be about the liberation of women as part of liberation of everybody, have been very much engaged in. But within that, there is also notion of blaming the victim. It is a very important aspect of it. So in order for the Israeli and the Zionist narrative to work, you have to blame people. And one of the very well known cases, for example, was the case of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, the young Palestinian teenager who was kidnapped from in front of his house on July 2nd, 2014, right around the big, big 2014 war on Gaza we talked about, and kidnapped by Israeli settlers who took him to a forest in Jerusalem that was built on the ruins of the village of Deir Yassin, where the massacre on April 8th, 1948 happened in order to facilitate the creation of the Israeli state. And they made him drink kerosene and set him on fire and burned him alive, which was a clear case of lynching. Now, what Israeli police tried to do was to actually say that Mohammed Abu Khdeir was killed by his own family to quote unquote salvage family honor. And they killed him because he was queer. And now if it wasn't for his father who had videotapes of the security cameras outside of the house and showed it– the Israeli police tried to confiscate it and basically destroy it– showed that these people came and kidnapped him. The relative would still be among colonists, among racists, among white supremacists, Zionists, that Palestinians are killing Palestinians and they are doing this all the time. So it's not only blaming the victim, but it also instilling and reinforcing the narrative of people, not only Palestinians, this happens with all indigenous and all colonized communities and all communities of color from time immemorial. You look at the history of the United States, this is something, this is a trope that keeps getting repeated again and again and again. And it's not an easy trope because It is not something that's only being said. It's not only a discursive issue. It's not a discursive issue that we need to deconstruct in the classroom because we know the history, including that. But recently, many people started learning more about the case of Emmett Till, the young Boy who was killed and the woman who actually accused him came out and said that she lied, but he was killed and he was lynched. And then his mom insisted on having open casket so everybody could see the crime. And there's so many more examples that we don't have time to get into all of them now, but this is part of the colonial narrative, the colonial strategy in order to discredit the people who are colonized and discredit their struggle.  And this is definitely a part in Gaza and it is, but the other thing is that it depends on the narrative of saying that our communities in particular as exceptionally sensitive and exceptionally traditional. And this is something that we saw in Abu Ghraib for example.  When they were talking about, we're not going to show the images of iraqi men are particularly insensitive. But we were raising the question, which men are okay with it, which women, which anybody, which non gender binary person, who would be okay with being subjected to sexual and gender violence; to being displaced like this and so on. Nobody will be. But the imaginary that it is trying to instill that's built on Orientalist, Islamophobic, anti Arab, anti Palestinian, anti Muslim racism as part and parcel of all kinds of racism basically makes it possible to do a little dog whistle in order for you to enforce all of this. We saw this also at the US Social Forum when Zionist groups stand with us, which now everybody knows what it is, tried to do a workshop around queer communities in the Middle East, and many of us objected to it. And the reason that it got through because the organizers thought that this would be something that would be actually really wonderful, bringing everybody together. They did not really investigate who this group was and what it was doing and did not coordinate with the many organizations that were at the U. S. Social Forum in 2010 in Detroit from our own community to see what is happening, what's going on, are you part of this unparceled hat? Even though the Palestinian queer organizations have existed for a very long time, and I think it was by then, if I'm not mistaken, Ghadir you can correct me that we organize a national tour and for all calls throughout the U S in order for people to speak and you all came and spoke in my own classroom. This is part of the stuff that keeps going back. And this is also the same thing that we hear around this group that I've mentioned now, and this propaganda that's happening, and also in terms of the ways when we passed the resolution on BDS in the National Women's Studies Association 2015, many Zionist groups came out and basically came with the whole question is there a place for Zionism and feminism? Many of the feminist groups have been targeted, including the International Women's Strike and so on. This is a continuous, systemic, persistent thing. This is not something that is out of random or accidental. And so what do we do about this? In addition to what Ghadir said, I think it's really, really important for us to say, how do we fight back? We fight back with multiple ways. One of the ways we do for example, organizing this in the classroom. So one of the things that we do in the Arab and Muslim Ethnicity and Diaspora Studies program ever since we were founded in 2007 is every single year we were partnering with the Pride Month at San Francisco State to organize sessions on the whole question of queer justice, and this is one of them. Even after San Francisco State stopped funding pride month, we continue doing it again and again. We believe that it's really important to connect the knowledge within the classroom with the knowledge outside and with the activism and advocacy. We do not separate what happens in the classroom, what happens in the academy from outside. So the academy is not producing knowledge that is divorced from reality. The people who are organizing are part and parcel of that. And so we've been doing this again and again. The other thing that is really, really important to think about is how do we work here, and I'm talking here in the diaspora, with groups on the ground, Palestinian queer groups who are working? So one of the examples that I would like to cite from our own experiences is when Al-Qaws was attacked by Palestinian police in Nablus trying to hold an event. My hometown Nablus. We were going to rush and say something, but we waited and we coordinated with Al Qaws and we asked, what should we do? And we did not do anything until Al Qaws came out because we were objecting to the whole question of saving queer people from queer communities, saving brown people from brown communities, the whole question of the colonial notion. And we were also taking leadership from the people on the ground who are day in and day out struggling. Once Al-Qaws came out with it, what we did is we published in one of the newspapers in the Bay Area, along with Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism, which is a group that has been doing a lot of work for a very long time, and whose founder actually was chosen to be the Grand Marshall at Gay Pride Parade at San Francisco. And she turned down this honor and said, because I am here in Palestine struggling with the International Solidarity Movement at the time to oppose the apartheid world to oppose the repression by Israel and so on. So we organized together. And that's when we said we endorse. We support. This is really important sometimes to think about how do we take a back road and when is it we go public with things. At this point, we really need to go public and we need to defy all this propaganda that is happening.  This is part of what the solidarity mean. But this is not free. When we do something like this, there is punishment. And these are some of the flyers I'm showing from the Queer Liberation March that took place in 2019. This was the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall, Uprising. The Queer Liberation March at that time actually decided to refuse any corporate funding, to refuse to allow the police to go march in their own uniforms and so on, rejected the policing, rejected the state apparatus that represses people, rejected the corporate money and so on. As a result, there was space for us to be there. So we were organizing, we organized a big contingent under the banner of QAIA, Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, and also Queers A gainst Islamophobia.  So we participated and I took this banner and I put it on my Facebook page. This led to the another Zionist attack, which is trying to silence Palestine and were trying to criminalize Palestine in the curriculum, and especially targeting us and our program in particular. And they took it and didn't say what was on the banner. They just said that I'm spreading hate, and thus I should be– they had 86 organizations, some of them fake organizations– sign it, send it to the university, to the chancellor of California State University to the president of San Francisco State, saying that I'm spreading hate. This for them is hate. Palestine is a queer issue. BDS Zionism is racism. Silence means death. For them, this was something that was very problematic, and it was something that is undermining the Zionist propaganda, and Zionist project of colonizing Palestine and eliminating the Palestinian people like the genocide that we are seeing here, and trying to continue pushing the pink washing without having it exposed.  As a result, our program has been attacked again and again. The Lawfare Project executive director got on the TV, on Fox and friends, and made a lying statement. They sued me. And they sued San Francisco State and they sued California State University. But we defeated them. It was thrown out of court. It was dismissed with prejudice. But she lied about that. And she said that I'm spreading hate; that I'm one of the leading anti Semitic– Horowitz every single year pushes out a formula about the top anti-Semitic scholars, and they always give me number one. And I think they do it in May because this is the fundraising season for them. As a result, I started receiving death threats. However, and including to my own university and the threat voicemails on my office mail that said Muslims will die, which is the same phrase that the guy who killed Wadiah Al-Fayyumi in Chicago, stabbing him 26 times. He said Muslims will die. The university does not believe that this is actually a viable threat. And so they protect the right wing speech, which is white supremacist and Zionist is a protected speech protected that they can do whatever they want, put up hateful posters, do whatever they want against us, but we are not allowed to say so. And the university is not investigating death threat letters that actually came to me through the University President's office to my own office. However we refuse to be silenced. We refuse to lie down. And so we continued organizing. And one of the main events that we organize, and we do it every year, is this panel Queer Open Classroom that everybody can attend and come in. Queer justice against pink washing, exposing it, bringing scholars and activists, Ghadir was one of the people who spoke at that, in order for us to support liberation for Palestine as part of liberation of all, and to support gender and sexual justice as part and parcel of the indivisibility of justice. Thank you. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Oh, Rabab. I hope that you can feel all the tremendous. gratitude and love that you're getting in the chat. I think that there is such a clear longing to be hearing stories from elders, folks who have been in this fight for so long. Thank you for bringing in the long arc of queer Palestinian organizing. Thank you for bringing the long arc and history of queers being in solidarity for Palestine. It's so important that we understand that while this moment is so important for us to study, learn and act. It rests upon such a long arc and such a long history of organizing in solidarity with Palestine. Thank you for also speaking to Mohammed Abu Khdeir, thank you for speaking him into the space. Thank you for both of you reminding us to follow the lead of queer Palestinians. What we're trying to do with you all today with this teach-in is to really pull us together, circle around and invite us all to be following the lead of queer Palestinians so that we can take on this work as inextricably linked to our own liberation; to advance the work of undermining pinkwashing and Zionism as part and parcel to our queer liberation. So thank you so much, Rabab. Our last speaker, Shivani Chanillo with Lavender Phoenix. Shivani (they/them) is a trans non- binary second generation Indian American organizer. Shout out to the baddy Indian organizers out here, myself included. Their experience of active solidarity with Palestinian folks came in 2017 through exchanges they facilitated between their high school students in Baltimore, and students at Ramallah Friends School in the West Bank. These powerful exchanges stoked Shivani's passion for developing young people as critical thinkers grounded in revolutionary values and politics. As a leadership development coordinator at Lavender Phoenix, an organization that Queer Crescent deeply loves and feels deeply supported by and in deep siblingship with. Shivani continues this work by facilitating opportunities for trans and queer Asians and Pacific Islanders to practice values based organizing and contribute to intersectional movements. In particular, I just want to really say that we were so excited to invite Shivani and Lavender Phoenix in to our teach in as the final speaker, because Lavender Phoenix is one organization that really models, going back to the initial motivation of this teach in with our letter calling for a permanent ceasefire, calling on LGBTQ organizations and leaders to sign on to understanding pink washing and to support Palestinian liberation. Lavender Phoenix is one such organization that has really demonstrated such values align solidarity with Palestinian liberation. And so I'm really excited to bring you in Shivani to close us out to talk about how queer people, queer organizations can really double down on our solidarity.  Shivani Chanillo: Thank you so much Shenaaz for that introduction and to Queer Crescent for organizing this event. I just want to take a moment and just, I feel so deeply moved by the sharing from Rabab and Ghadir in this workshop and just sitting with the lineage within all of us as we take up Palestine as a queer issue. We have generations of lessons and decades of work and such powerful leaders here in this space, but all across the world to follow, and I feel so grateful and so excited to be joining in on this work and sharing a little bit about what Lavender Phoenix is doing in this moment. If you haven't heard of Lavender Phoenix, we build trans non binary and queer Asian and Pacific Islander power here in the Bay Area. We are a base building organization training grassroots leaders to build intersectional movements. As we witness an escalation of the ongoing genocide in Palestine I can say that our base is firmly grounded in the understanding that Palestinian liberation is part of our struggle and our responsibility as trans and queer Asian and Pacific Islander people. And so I want to start by sharing a little bit about what we're doing in this moment, before sharing about how our members arrived to this point. Since October 7th we have shifted our work accordingly. We have dedicated time to mobilize our members and our broader communities to action. We have educated each other to stay politically grounded. We have and will continue to support each other to process the grief of this moment and to remember hope, optimism, and commitment. In so many facets of our work, we are stepping into deeper leadership and responsibility to support our Palestinian comrades to win. And more tangibly across our six member led committees, this looks like offering healing support, coordinating our members who are trained in protest and digital security to support our comrades, coordinating contingents at in person and online actions, moving financial resources and funder attention to our Palestinian partners, and uplifting pro Palestinian messaging and calls to actions using our social media reach. Responding to Palestine and challenging pinkwashing is not a shift in our priorities, but it's actually a sharpening of our focus as an organization. We've organized our base over the years to recognize our interconnected struggles, and across our membership, we so deeply understand that the Palestinian struggle is our struggle. And Palestinian futures are our futures. All of the actions we are taking right now to support Palestine, to challenge pinkwashing are the result of so many tests, experiments, and trials that have helped us deepen our political purpose and grow our power. Many of these experiments and trials that we've conducted over the years really informed our current theory of change. And this is really critical to how we're organizing in this moment. Our emergent responses to sharpen contradictions in our world like we are witnessing with Palestine, are only possible because we organize within a consistent theory of change. A key part of our theory of change and a key part of my role as Leadership Development coordinator, is that we are committed to developing leaders who are rooted in our values, in our history, in emotional intelligence, and compassion, because we know that is how our movement will be sustained and will be effective. So we're not just developing members and masses who care about single issues, we're developing holistic, critical thinkers who care about solidarity with all oppressed people so that in moments like this, solidarity with Palestine is a natural choice in our larger fight for liberation. One of the really important ways we do this, and this workshop is a critical example, is we educate our base, our trans and queer API base, on our history. We dig into how systems of white supremacy, imperialism, colonialism, racial capitalism, and cisheteropatriarchy impact all of us across our identities in the past and in the present. Right now, the tools and tactics being wielded by fascist leaders to criminalize and punish trans people here in the U. S. are rooted in the same white supremacist, colonial, and imperialist ideologies used to justify the dehumanization and murder of Palestinians, particularly trans and queer Palestinians. As part of our theory of change, we've also spent intentional time educating our base about revolutionary politics like abolition and healing justice, and developing our skills for safety, for healing and resource mobilization that are applicable in moments all across our movement. We spent so much time since we implemented this theory of change in 2021 to build our base and grow our power so we can show up for our partners who are organizing for Palestinian liberation in this moment. We have spent so much time cultivating our skills and knowledges so we can support our movements beyond just trans liberation.  I want to end just by sharing a little bit of a story. A few weeks ago, our members participated in a direct action that asked many of them to step into higher risk than they had before. Prior to the action, we met to get grounded together. Folks shared their fears, but they also countered those fears with a really rooted sense of purpose. So many of our members talked about how they wanted to look back on this moment and know that they and we as an organization did everything in our power to support Palestinian liberation. And they spoke about the sacred responsibility and duty we have in this moment to show up in solidarity. I feel so moved, even now, just thinking back to that moment and feel so much gratitude to our members for taking new risks, to the generations of leaders in our organization and our movement who have led us to this point, and I feel immense admiration and gratitude to the long lineage of Palestinian queer and trans resistance, and current day organizers who are guiding us right now. For Lavender Phoenix, this moment is really helping us clarify our power, and for many of our members, this moment is helping them clarify their political purpose. The things all of our Palestinian siblings are fighting for, self determination, safety, healing, community, decolonization, these are the things that we as trans and queer API people here in the Bay Area so desire for ourselves as well. We refuse to let our transness and our queerness be co opted for violence and displacement and genocide, and we know that our struggles and our futures are united, and we're committed to fighting alongside our Palestinian comrades until we are all free. Thank you so much for letting me share. I'll pass it back to Shenaaz. Shenaaz Janmohamed: Shivani, thank you so much for bringing all of it. Lavender Phoenix, I just can't swoon on y'all enough. You model that clarity of purpose and power and grace. There's also such deep humility and grace to be in constant learning. As an emerging organization, an emerging queer organization, I just have to say Queer Crescent feels so deeply held by y'all and really inspired with the path that you are leading and inviting us all towards.  This piece around letting this moment sharpen the focus. It's not a pivot. I think I've even said, we're pivoting, we're in rapid response. Part of our political principles as an organization is understanding anti Zionism as part and parcel of the white supremacist project. And so this is not a pivot, it's not a rapid response, but to your point, it's a sharpening and it's a double down of our commitments, principles and priorities. So thank you for naming that.  Cheryl Truong: And that's the end of our show. Tonight's show was a broadcast of the Resisting Pinkwashing teach-in co-led by Queer Crescent and the Palestinian Feminist Collective. It was moderated by Shenaaz Janmohamed, executive director of Queer Crescent and featured poetry by Mx. Yaffa of MASGD, and guest speakers, Rabab Abdulhadie from the Palestinian feminist collective, Ghadir Shafie of ASWAT, and and Shivani Chanillo from AACRE Group Lavender Phoenix. Learn more about the incredible work of these incredible organizations and sign on to Queer Crescent's cease fire campaign through the links in our show notes.  Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening! The post APEX Express – 01.25.24 Resisting Pinkwashing Teach-In appeared first on KPFA.

This week on the Retail Perch, Gary and Shekar are in the festive spirit as they mark a momentous occasion - their 100th episode! To make it truly special, they're joined by a distinguished guest, Len Covello, the Chief Technology Officer of Engage People, a company dedicated to enhancing customer loyalty. Together, Gary, Shekar, and Len dive deep into the fascinating world of customer loyalty. They discuss the intricate dynamics of loyalty programs, the redemption of reward points, the ever-evolving landscape of customer loyalty in the era of technological advancements, and so much more. Tune in for an insightful and celebratory episode!

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   DESCRIPTION: Sheenaz and Saba of Queer Crescent and Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A of Lavender Phoenix join Cheryl for this week's episode of APEX Express! This first half of the episode dives into the insincerity of pinkwashing and the ways it has been utilized by the Israeli government to exploit LGBTQIA+ rights to distract from their oppressive policies towards Palestinians, both queer and non-queer. Sheenaz and Saba brilliantly expose the ways pinkwashing perpetuates Islamophobia and racist tropes about Palestinians, along with Arab, Muslim, and SWANA communities and shed light on the long history of trans and queer organizing within Palestine, uplifting work of Al Qaws, an organization at the forefront of Palestinian cultural and social change that builds LGBTQ communities and promotes new ideas about the role of gender and sexual diversity in political activism, civil society institutions, media, and everyday life. Queer Crescent urges queer organizations and leaders to speak up, take action, and demand a ceasefire, writing that “As trans, queer and non-binary people we understand too well what is at stake when our self-determination and sovereignty are removed. Palestine is a queer issue, and it is our duty to listen and learn from queer Palestinians who are living under Israeli occupation, and in the imposed Diaspora”. You can sign on to Queer Crescent's ceasefire campaign at bit.ly/PalestineisaQueerIssue. In the second half of the show we are joined by Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A of Lavender Phoenix who emphasize the importance of care within the Palestine Liberation movement, urging our listeners to not fall into feelings of inaction. They highlight the importance of grief routines and using grief and rage as tools for momentum, and ask the provoking difficult question: What could it look like for people to feel as safe at a protest as they feel at home? We also gain intimate insight into the ways Lavender Phoenix has been organizing, as Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A emphasize the interconnectedness of all of our struggles and the interconnectedness of all of our freedoms. IMPORTANT LINKS + RESOURCES: Queer Crescent's website Queer Crescent's Call for Ceasefire Sign-On Queer Crescent's Pinkwashing Resources Al Qaws's website Lavender Phoenix's website SHOW TRANSCRIPT: Cheryl: Good evening. You are tuned into apex express. We are bringing you an Asian American and Pacific Islander point of view from the bay and around the world. I'm your host, Cheryl and tonight is an acre night, which is short for Asian Americans for civil rights and equality. Apex express is proud to be one of the 11 API social justice groups within the acre network, working to advance positive social change. Tonight, we have two very spectacular guests here with us, Shenaaz and Saba from Queer Crescent. It is such an honor to have you both here with us today. Do you mind introducing yourselves? Who are you and who are your people? Saba: Hi, I'm Saba Taj. I am the communications coordinator for Queer Crescent. And, who are my people? Oh gosh, this is a beautiful question, and I think one that, changes at different moments. In large part, I really feel like I am on the side of humanity and Global dignity. As a queer Muslim from the South that struggle for our collective dignity often centers folks whom I share identities with and just more broadly, really thinking about individuals who are marginalized on multiple fronts. And so, yeah, that's a really kind of vague answer. There's a lot of different folks that are included, but, I hope that answers it for you. Shenaaz: Yeah, thanks Cheryl for inviting Saba and I on the show. Hi folks, I'm Shenaaz Janmohamed. I'm the founder and executive director of Queer Crescent. I've been asked this question ” who are my people” at different times and in the past would have this litany of folks that come to mind: parents, queers, misfits, etc. And I think what I'm feeling now and what I've noticed is that litany of folks can sometimes make the world feel smaller. What I'm pushing and striving towards is feeling a sense of home with more and more folks where there's political alignment. There's values alignment. We're struggling together. So this notion of who are my people feels like it's more of a question than it's an answer. And it keeps me hungry for finding more and more. Cheryl: Wow. Thank you both so much for your thoughtful answers and for setting the tone of our conversation in such a provocative and intentional way.. Do you mind telling us about Queer Crescent, the work that you do, and also about your current cease fire campaign? Shenaaz: Sure, yeah, I can kick us off and then Saba feel free to weigh in. So Queer Crescent, started really as a response to the ways in which many of us, I say queer Muslim and I really mean the range of LGBTQIA plus experiences, trans folks, non binary folks, intersex folks, et cetera. So Queer Crescent really started as a drop-in support group when the Muslim and African travel ban was imposed in 2017. At the time I was working as a mental health worker largely with high schoolers and I also had a private practice. As a queer Muslim recent parent at the time was really feeling like a sense of placelessness and lack of political home where all parts of me would be held whole. And so I put together a support group and it was an overwhelming response in the community. Over 30 people would show up every two weeks. I've lived in the bay for about eight nine years at the time and I was meeting so many different people. Really the seedling of that support group led to this more national organization stretching towards base building and power building with marginal Muslims, queer Muslims. It really was like trying to create a space where we could be held and seen and move from that place of the complexity and the entireties of our identities. In terms of the ceasefire campaign, I'll kind of foreground it and then kick it to Saba, over the last several years that Queer Crescent has grown we've been able to build really solid relationships with other movement partners and other queer organizations. And linking to Palestine solidarity around bodily autonomy has always been something that has been top of mind. The assaults on Gaza are consistent and they have been for many years so when October 7th happened and the assault on Gaza and this genocide has been so intense, it required all hands on deck. Many folks who are committed to the liberation of Palestine have been calling for ceasefire. And so I asked myself, what can Queer Crescent do to play a role in calling for ceasefire and what are the links that are possible to make. Pinkwashing was a natural connect because it is very much a queer issue. Queer organizations like Al Qaws in Palestine and so many others have been talking to us about pinkwashing and making those links. It felt like a good opportunity to call for ceasefire while also doing some political education around the importance of queer people understanding and interrupting and taking on pinkwashing as part of queer liberation. Saba: Shenaaz, I feel like you covered the grounding. That was, I think, perfect. But Cheryl, there's additional questions about the campaign. Cheryl: Yes! I have many questions. For starters, what is pink washing and Saba I'm taking this line directly from Queer Crescent's ceasefire campaign description, which you wrote. How is pinkwashing used as a strategy to advance Zionist colonial violence? Saba: Yeah. So pinkwashing is a form of propaganda that's used by Israel. The aim of it is ultimately to dehumanize the Palestinian people and use this racist trope that Arabs and Muslims and Middle Eastern SWANA people are anti queer and trans and are ultimately homophobic and backwards. It's part of a larger narrative of these groups of people not being with the times and trying to create some sort of image. Not trying to, but very actively pushing a story that Israel is the place of progress, of freedom, when in fact they are using these stories of Palestinians, Muslims, et cetera, being homophobic as an excuse to dehumanize them as cover for their own violent actions. So it's a distraction from their racist and violent policies, projecting an image of freedom and safety for queer people in Israel that is not in fact true. You can't be for queer liberation while also bombing these people and oppressing this entire group. There's no way for those things to happen at the same time, and I think it's part of a larger strategy that we see also play out in terms of feminism. That story is very familiar, where after 9 11, we have to go save Muslim women from these evil, savage Muslim men, and to do so, we're going to bomb all of these communities. It's a strategy you utilize to justify violence. It splits our communities in ways like a divide and conquer sort of tactic; this larger story of you can't be queer and Muslim at the same time, or you can't be a feminist and be Muslim at the same time. And that ultimately serves to split our movements and reinforce a racist stereotype that makes the larger public feel that it is justified to behave in violent and oppressive ways towards an entire people through some excuse that they actually don't care about one another. Shenaaz, if you want to jump in. Shenaaz: I appreciate the links you're making and ultimately I think pinkwashing strategies or the splitting that you're talking about requires a betrayal of the self. Only if you betray some part of yourself can you feel a sense of belonging. And as queer people in our queer bodies, we know that is just not the case. When your experience is being exploited, it's very evident. The work ahead is both combating the colonial violence, making the violence stop, demanding ceasefire now, and the continuous work of continuing to show up in our full selves as queer people, and affirm our sense of belonging within our communities despite both the state violence and the ways in which our belonging is interrupted, both from external forces and internal. Cheryl: Thank you both so much. I think that imagery of splitting. And the ways pink washing shows up, especially for queer Muslim people is really powerful, especially that line Shenaaz, pink washing requires a betrayal of the self. Could either of you talk a little bit more on the impact of this splitting internally within SWANA communities. Shenaaz: Well, I don't think that Saba and I could speak to experiences of SWANA folk because neither Saba and I are SWANA, we're both South Asian. I think the ways in which we come into this conversation, as folks who are Muslim who grew up in Muslim community and that adjacent experience, where Queer Crescent's central project is to blow breath into what it means to be a Muslim. And so Muslim multiplicity, nuance, contradictions, self determination around what your relationship to Muslim is, and a self determined Muslim identity. One of the many functions of Islamophobia and anti Muslim racism as an outgrowth of white supremacy is to dehumanize people. In the case of what Saba was saying earlier, it limits what can be possible of a people. There's this assertion that Muslim communities are inherently homophobic, inherently patriarchal. There were queer Muslim folks prior to colonization. It was the advent of colonization with it's imposed Christian, dogmatic, very strict notions of gender that actually interrupted what was otherwise a much more fluid sense of gender. So part of it is understanding those lineages and that history. And then it's also confronting the realities that are present today. Saba: Yeah. I think it also really obscures a lot of reality as well. One that there are queer Palestinians who are organizing and doing this work within their own communities, Al Qaws being folks that we really look to and want to amplify and follow their leadership. But even in the U. S., you can really see clearly this story of we are in the United States, the harbingers of progress, and yet anti trans laws and the oppression, the silencing of queer people and trans people in this country– we haven't solved these things. . It's a story that is used for a particular purpose and that purpose is just to justify war. That is the actual priority. It's not about queer liberation. It feels incredibly obvious that is not actually the priority of the United States or of Israel, especially when if they were actually to be for progress, for queer and trans liberation, by design, that means you would not be moving in these ways. Cheryl: That was perfectly said. There is the strange dissonance going on with pink washing that, just as you said Saba, has nothing to do with trans and queer liberation at all. I know queer Crescent has compiled a thorough pink washing resource list. How can our listeners access that? Saba: We put out a call to queer orgs to sign on to a letter that outlines that Palestine is a queer issue and is naming pinkwashing in particular as a framework that we need to be very familiar with because it's a copy paste situation. This pinkwashing strategy is used really clearly and blatantly by Israel but also more broadly applied in other circumstances as well. So really calling on queer folks to understand that we have stakes in this and as Organizations as individuals who are committed to that liberation. We must recognize and move in a way that centers Palestine also as a queer issue, connect to it in that way. It is our responsibility. So the letter is online. It's bit.ly/PalestineisaQueerIssue. It can also be found via our Instagram. It's one of the links in our bio as well as the pinkwashing resources, which can be further accessed via that letter. That's a great way to get connected with us. We are also planning some pinkwashing teach ins, so that we can help further this political education and make those connections so folks feel empowered to speak on this issue and bring more folks into calling for a ceasefire, understanding that this is in our broad interest as a community of LGBTQI plus organizations and individuals. Shenaaz: Yeah. The only piece that I would add is this is a really horrific. moment of witnessing genocide and the fight for a free Palestine is a long fight. And so this is also a moment to shore up deeper solidarity. And part of solidarity is supporting people with learning the ways in which they, our struggles are connected. And again really helping queer people understand pink washing, both as such a well oiled used tool of Israel and its settler colonial project and occupation of Palestine, but also the ways in which Israel is this. Model for other colonial powers to learn from through military, through cops and also pinkwashing. We see, for example, India adopting pinkwashing strategies as well to again blur its power and its own project of ethnic cleansing of Muslims, Dalits, Christians, and anyone who doesn't subscribe to the Hindu fascist notion Modi and his government is trying to push. And so it's also really important for queer people to understand this strategy of pinkwashing, to interrupt the Israeli propaganda, but also to notice and be on alert for other colonial and state forces that also use pinkwashing to further other political gains that are in direct opposition to us having safety and bodily autonomy and freedoms. Cheryl: All of these amazing resources will also be linked within our show notes. For maybe one of the final questions do you mind expanding more about this interconnectedness between all of our movements, how to quote from the ceasefire campaign “as a queer Muslim org we recognize that there is no queer trans non binary and femme Muslim liberation without Palestine. Could you expand on this a little bit more? Saba: Yeah. the interconnectedness of our struggles is just such a critical piece, that shows up in this moment and so many others. And I can track that and name as a queer Muslim person, the Black Lives Matter movement was also integral. When we think about our freedom, we must always be looking towards how we can disrupt, dismantle systems of oppression, of policing, of dehumanization that are perpetuated across so many different lines. And that connection I think is really critical because it becomes so easy to think about safety on an individual level. How can I personally be comfortable? How can I personally be safe? But oftentimes what that requires within a capitalist framework is somebody else not being safe. As long as our systems of safety are contingent on the oppression of one or many groups, none of us are actually safe. If you look deep into policy, just to further articulate this, the Patriot Act not only impacted Muslims in the U. S. and more broadly, but immigrants. We're not only Muslim, you see that police violence in the U. S. is not disconnected. Anti blackness that is so obvious and rife in our policing in the United States is also in relationship with Israel. Much of the police across the nation is trained by Israeli IDF. And if we're not actually seeing those connections, then ultimately we are not dismantling those larger systems that serve to direct their violence, their silencing towards different groups at different times, but ultimately all serve to uphold white supremacy. I think it can be very tempting when it feels like the target is not specifically on our own back to feel like maybe we can find some safety by being close have some proximity to whiteness in different moments. And we really need to resist that urge. Even when they're not looking directly at us, if there is a group of people who are being named as enemy, who are being actively dehumanized whether that is subtle or blatant, that is all of our business, and those are strategies that will be certainly used against us at a different time when it's in the interest of consolidating white supremacy. These strategies can be used to target so many of us. Also this notion that we are separate groups is also often not the case. There is overlap so we must, at all turns, be on the side of liberation, on the side of pushing for community care, as opposed to our money going towards violence, which is the root of so much of this. The interests of the S. and Israel is power at the expense of people, not actually about how to care for their own people. Shenaaz: Yeah, if I could just build on that as well. I think that's such an important point that you're making when there is one community that is facing assault in this case, Palestine and Palestinian liberation movement organizers. It also becomes a moment where harmful policies and decisions are made in rapid fire to your point around the Patriot Act. For example, right now there is the potential of a reauthorization of section 702, which is a section of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and Queer Crescent is a part of many other Muslim progressive organizations that are trying to resist this. But this moment of increased violence against Palestinians that is being met by mass mobilization in the form of protest, of shutting things down, deep solidarity is being met from the elected official side and the state side with more more strategies for repression. We're seeing much more police force at protest. And then we're seeing things like the reauthorization and the expansion of the surveillance apparatus and the surveillance state. And so while that is Popping up in response to the swell of solidarity with Palestine, everyone will suffer under more expansion of surveillance, not just Palestinians, not just Muslims, right. So it is then both our responsibility to be in solidarity as people who are committed to liberation for a free Palestine, but is also tactically and strategic for us to be stronger together. And those that are the most vulnerable under increased suppression and surveillance are those that the most on the margins, be it poor working class, disabled, queer, trans, sex workers, incarcerated, et cetera. There's always so many things happening simultaneously and we need each other, you know, in short. Cheryl: We do need each other. Well, Shenaaz, Saba, thank you both so, so much for being on tonight's show. For all of our listeners out there, to stay in contact and to keep up with Queer Crescent's work, Shenaaz, do you mind reminding us one last time how our listeners can keep up with Queer Crescent? Shenaaz: Yeah you can follow us, our website is queercrescent.org. Thanks to Saba, we have a pretty active social media presence through Instagram, so it's @queercrescent. And then the amazing, resources and call for ceasefire, is at bit.ly/PalestineisaQueerIssue Thank you so much for having us on, Cheryl, and I think it's really important before we end to give a strong solidarity and love to Al Qaws, the Palestinian queer organization in Palestine, who have been talking to many of us about pinkwashing, about resisting colonialism, and about really centering liberation and queerness as two things that are not mutually exclusive, but part of the same liberation project. They've got great resources, really encourage folks to support them, learn from them and follow their lead in the ways that we are trying to do with this campaign. Cheryl: Thank you so much Shenaaz for ending us on such a great note, the link to Al Qaws' website and socials will be also linked in our show notes. Now before I introduced our next guests, we're going to do a quick music break. This song is “Anger (DPT)” by the Khamsa Music Project. Hope you enjoy. PT2: LAVENDER PHOENIX Welcome back to the show, everyone. You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org.. You were just listening to “Anger (H.T.P.)” by the Khamsa Music Project. We've reached the final half of our show where we're joined by Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A– three incredible organizers and members of Lavender Phoenix. Lavender Phoenix along with APEX Express are two of the eleven AAPI social justice groups within the AACRE network working to advance social change. It is such a great pleasure and honor to have the three of you here with us on the show. Do you mind introducing yourself for our listeners here tonight? Who are you and who are your people? Cynthia: Of course, thanks Cheryl for having us. I'll get us started. My name is Cynthia. I use they/them pronouns. I am the lead organizer at Lavender Phoenix. I'll pass it to Kaiyah. Kaiyah: Hello. Hello. I'm Kaiyah. I use they and he pronouns. I've been a Community Safety Committee member for a couple years and a volunteer for much longer. I'll pass it to A. A: Hi hi, my name is A. I use she/her pronouns, and I've been a Community Safety Committee member since 2021 and also a volunteer slash person who hung around before then. Cheryl: Thanks for indulging me in that quick Round Robin. Can you tell our listeners who is Lavender Phoenix, and what is the role that LavNix plays within the movement for Palestinian liberation? Cynthia: Yeah, of course. Here at Lavender Phoenix, we organize with trans and queer Asians and Pacific Islanders here in the Bay Area. We build power through our organizing, inspire and train grassroots leaders, transform our values from scarcity to abundance, and we also build vibrant intersectional movements. We work with our youth, but we also have a community of elders and our history has been a lot of intergenerational work and oral histories. And as trans and queer Asians and Pacific Islanders, I think it's important for us to know how deep in our legacy our relationship with state violence is. We have lessons from the AIDS epidemic, and we also need to stand on the lessons that we experience from our homelands. From all of this, we know that organizing in solidarity right now with Palestinians is actually the best way to make that argument for true healing and safety. All the money that's going into this war, violence, and the prison industrial complex, those are resources that could actually go towards healing our earth, feeding our people, housing people. They actually call Palestine an open air prison, and we know that we have better ways to spend our money, better things to do with our time, than to incarcerate and murder people. We want to mourn for our dead, and we fight like hell for the living. And we know that right now, it is not just an actual war, but there's a war in ideology. Are we going to go for weapons and corporate greed, or are we going to fight for a new world? Kaiyah: Yeah, I was gonna kind of go off what Cynthia said about how our struggles are connected. The money that is going to weapons, going to fuel the military, to take people's lives in Palestine. That money could be used instead to uplift life all around the world and also here in the US where people are houseless. People don't have enough food. People don't have their basic needs met. Safety could be realized in a very practical way instead of using it to take people's lives. And for me, I was thinking about how to become more human is to be aware that we're all connected. And this isn't just like a pretty thing to say, cause literally we're seeing money being sent over there could be used differently. A lot of different cultures and different organizations I've been a part of really hold this value that we're all connected. You hear people say things about Ubuntu and Kapwa– that I am because of who we are and I guess I've developed this sense of connectedness to other people across the world and people in Palestine– many of whom I've never met. I was thinking about why I felt so connected to it. I definitely had this sense that like. I'm seeing my siblings across the world suffering and in pain. What else can I do but try to stop that pain? I see my siblings across the world in Israel are harming others and causing pain. What can I do except to ask them and demand of them to do differently to stop hurting others. We wrote in our organization's plan that to support Palestine is to support our own liberation as well. Palestinian struggle is our struggle and Palestinian futures are our futures. So that's kind of how I've been thinking about it. I don't know if you want to add anything, A? A: That's so beautiful Kaiyah. Yeah, and absolutely resonate with all of that. I guess the last thing I'll add is that I think we also have a really unique opportunity as Asian Americans, as people living in the heart of empire. This is happening overseas, but it's very much a result of our government. The United States is ultimately the most culpable here. So I think as people living here, as people who are voting our representatives into office, who give that legitimacy to our government, I think we both have a responsibility, but also a unique power that most people in the world don't have. That is such a unique opportunity that we have as Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in the United States. Yeah, we're a marginalized group here, but we're still, relatively speaking, have so much strength in both our position and privilege and also in the ways that we connect to each other. Cheryl: Thank you all so much for speaking to that. From Cynthia and Kaiyah, we're hearing the interconnectedness of all of our struggles to Palestine, and also from A, the positionality and as a result responsibility we have as people within the global north who are complicit within this genocide. Before we continue this incredible conversation. We're going to take a short music break. Go ahead, grab some water and maybe a snack. And we'll be right back after we listened to “Power Struggle” by Kultural Worker And we're back. You were tuned into apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org.. I'm here in conversation with Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A from Lavender Phoenix, a grassroots organization, building trans and queer API power in the bay area. You were just listening to “Power Struggle” by Kultural Worker. Now let's get back to the show. The next question I have for you all revolves around how a lot of Asian Americans, by way of class privilege or otherwise, are decidedly apolitical even though our existences themselves, as you all have been saying, are extremely political and are extremely interconnected within the Palestinian struggle for liberation. How do we get our communities thinking and taking action on this? A: I can take a first pass, because this is something I truly think about all the time, you know, how do we collect our people? I feel like it really goes back to what Kaiyah was just saying about our humanity is all connected, and to care about other people is to also care about ourselves. It's really hard to do, but this key piece of how do you get people to see that systems of oppression, even if they ostensibly benefit you and guarantee you real material privilege, they also detract from your humanity, and they also make your lives actively materially worse in a lot of ways, or spiritually worse in a lot of ways. I really struggle with how to implement that. It's a hard thing to convey. In movement spaces, over time I, finally, like, you know, got it. But I think that is really what the work is, right? Even if you are not at the bottom of a hierarchy, even if you're at the top of a hierarchy, a system of oppression dehumanizes the oppressor too. Kaiyah: I really feel that. I, I really feel like in this time, there's been a lot of spiritual growth as people are seeing just what is truly important in life. I've been hearing so many people talk about how what's important has become crystal clear as they see people across the world having their lives taken and being like, wow, we really have to do something about this. I'm going to kind of take it a different direction. In general, I think something I often see is that people who care about what's happening to other people who are being oppressed become really overwhelmed with grief and the feelings that come with witnessing something terrible and either become stuck in that and become stuck in inaction because they're overwhelmed, or detach from it because they're not sure what else they can do. Maybe they attempt to take some action, but then it feels futile. Is this actually making an impact? I guess what I'm trying to talk about right now is what can give people hope so that they feel like mobilizing is worth it and mobilizing can be effective. How do we get to that and that? Those things I named around inaction definitely apply to me. In the past I would attempt to organize. I would be like, is this really working? How do I even know it's working? God. Or just feeling like I can't engage with this. I'm I'm going to cry my eyeballs out if I think about this for more than five seconds. So I want to share about two main things that have helped move me from hopelessness and overwhelm into action and to stay there. So the first one is a practice of welcoming and making space for grief in my life, grief and rage. Grief and rage is often trying to remind me of what I yearn for, what I'm missing, what I care for, and what I deeply love. People say grief is love with no place to go, right? So I try to spend time with this grief to give it a place to go and do things to help it flow through me. Not to distract from it, not to get rid of it, but to let it move; to let it be. So I might like scream in my car. I might say to myself okay I'm really feeling this grief and rage today, what do I want to do? Okay, maybe i'm gonna scream my car. I'm going to listen to loud music. I'm going to go by a walk by the water. I've also been making a lot of altars and just giving thanks in nature to feel connected to what's in the world and feel like nature's helping me hold all these feelings. I might go to the gym to run out my feelings or talk to a friend. And all these things help me feel the grief and rage and let it move through me instead of sitting there and overwhelming me and demobilizing me. So instead that grief and rage can take the form of love and the care that it's trying to express. It's like I'm able to take all this pain I feel for my siblings in Gaza so that it fuels me to act instead of preventing me from acting through that overwhelm. The second thing I want to share that kind of moves me from hopelessness into action is to hone my understanding of strategy. I feel like nothing feeds hopelessness for me like pointless action, or action where the outcome and purpose is so unclear or if I'm not sure how its impact is going to play out. So for my actions to feel purposeful, I need to know, one, what is the outcome of my action? And two, how does that outcome fit into a larger plan or strategy? How does it feed into an overall goal of Palestinian liberation, per se? For example, I might tell myself, okay, I know that some protests are meant to be a part of many protests internationally that together are meant to draw more media attention or put more pressure on representatives. Other protests might happen even when the goal seems futile because to stay silent and let it happen without a fight would be even more damaging to our spirits. Maybe it serves some other purposes. Some other protests might be to directly intervene on organizations that are sending weapons and supplies and resourcing oppressive systems across the globe. Some protests are meant to directly slow that down or grind that industry to a halt. There's much more, but those are just some examples of things I think about when I go to a protest to make it really clear to myself what the function is of each action I'm a part of so I'm clear about how my little bit adds to a much larger goal, and it doesn't feel futile. And I know what the risks are, what the outcomes could be and what I'm fighting for in really certain terms, so I can have faith in my own impact. So I just want to share that long chunk as a hope that it might give other people some insight of how they might want to move out of hopelessness and let that grief and rage take another form. Cheryl: Thank you so much, Kaiyah. I was giving myself a hug just listening to you speak. It's important that we feel more rather than just feel better. We can hold all of these nuances without looking away. Cynthia, is there anything you wanted to add to that? Cynthia: I think today we're recording the Trans Day of Remembrance, and I know that this week, there is a holiday. I would encourage us to actually be celebrating the Indigenous Peoples Day. This theme of grief, rage, what we do with it, how we not let it immobilize us. I think is so sharp. This question about strategy too, because it has been 75 years of occupation, I'm actually really grateful for the leadership of Palestinians in this moment. This question of what do we do with this energy and how I've seen them move hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people all across this world to stand in solidarity. That is because of that strategy. And really, let's just get sharp. It's not just the politicians, but the weapons; manufacturing; the tech. It's all connected. How do we put our pressure where power is and contest for that? . Cheryl: As I'm listening to all of you speak, I'm hearing so much about the importance of taking care of our spirits as important and integral part of our strategy. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the importance of care and collectiveness within the Lavender Phoenix's organization and structure, and how it aligns itself with Palestinian liberation? A: I think something that I noticed that was really interesting when this latest slate of intensified violence started is people in LavNix started with, I'm going to this protest, who's coming? Then, people were pulling together Signal chats, and we were all coming together, but it was, like everyone had this urge to do something, and LavNix provided that home to do that and resources to do that. I know if I go to a protest I will have a group of people to meet up with there, and be safe with there. LavNix provides this base that allows us to take strategic, powerful action, and that's only possible because of all of the building that we have been doing before this point, like the work of our Community Safety Committee training folks on de-escalation practice, and now that folks are trained, they can go volunteer as protest marshals and do community safety work in that way. Or our healing justice committee providing peer counseling support for folks and helping folks be emotionally grounded so then in a moment of really intense violence, there's like a higher baseline of stability that allows us to do more. I think it's especially helpful in this moment. because it creates an organized resource group of people that can then go take action that is risky and difficult sometimes. Kaiyah: Yeah, I have been really appreciating how I have an organization to organize with. I have a group of people to organize with in this moment that is Lavender Phoenix, because I see so many people asking right now, Oh, I want to do something. How do I help? And while I believe that everyone can get involved and everyone can mobilize themselves if they would like to, it also is really helpful that we've already had that sense of trust built. We know each other so we can ask each other to join up on higher risk actions because we know how to work together already , whereas we wouldn't be able to ask that to a completely new stranger. Something else I was thinking about in terms of caring for each other at protests was actually a conversation I was having with another Lavender Phoenix member the other day, so I'm stealing this from them. They were asking, “What could it look like for people to feel as safe as a protest as they feel at home?” Not that we were thinking that we're ever going to get there per se, but it was just something we want to think about because I want people who join protests and actions to take really informed risks and be trained in what to expect and how they can maybe react in those situations, especially in escalated situations if that happens. On a personal level, the way I feel healing and care is showing up is again, it's similar to those grief routines. I'll often set aside time to just be really silent after a protest and be by myself, make sure I have a meal prepped at home. Maybe take some time to listen to sad music, really do my thing to move through those feelings because I can often feel really disoriented and kind of discombobulated from all the adrenaline after a protest, or maybe even more sad because it's got me thinking about everything happening to my Palestinian siblings, so that's how healing and care is showing up. Did you want to add anything, Cynthia? Cynthia: I would say it has been special to see how our membership has kind of snowballed into this collective action Started with a few of us. And then there were maybe 10 of us, 20 of us, and then at one point there were 50 of us, and it was I think a testament to trans and queer APIs just feeling that connection, feeling that love, wanting to put that love into action and do that with our community, because we know we keep us safe and we have something to contribute to the broader movement around us. Like we know we can bring that and where we organize, we contribute a lot. And so it's something to be really grateful for. Kaiyah: Yes, I feel so grateful as well. Cheryl: I'm feeling so grateful for this conversation and I'm so grateful that organizations like Lavender Phoenix exist and can cultivate these strong senses of communities. And really y'all do such a great job. Cynthia, do you mind letting us know what are ways that people can follow and stay in touch with Lavender Phoenix and what y'all are up to? Cynthia: Yeah, of course. We are celebrating a new graduating class of Rise Up members. Our organization, we're doing things externally, but also building internally. You can find us on Instagram @lavphoenix. You Google us, you'll find our website as well. Keep in touch. We'd love to see you around. Kaiyah: Trans and queer Asian and Pacific Islander people, come find us. . Cheryl: And that's the end of our show. Please check out our website, kpfa.org to learn more about Queer Crescent and Lavender Phoenix. We'd We'd like to thank all of our listeners out there. Keep dreaming folks. A better world is possible. Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening! The post APEX Express – 12.07.2023: Re-Air of Queers for a FREE PALESTINE appeared first on KPFA.

In this episode of The Retail Perch, Gary and Shekar welcome Scott Greenberg, an acclaimed keynote speaker, renowned for his insightful understanding of people dynamics, and an accomplished author. Scott's insights not only shed light on the intricacies of managerial roles within businesses but also offer actionable takeaways for those navigating the dynamic world of retail. The three discuss the influence of diverse personality types on retail environments, the nuances of generational disparities in the workplace, and much more.

This episode recorded live at the 8th Annual Becker's HIT + DH + RCM Conference in Chicago features Shekar Ramanathan, Executive Director of Digital Transformation at Atlantic Health Systems. Here, he discusses integrating multiple technologies as a unified experience, his technology growth strategy, and more.

Shekar Krishnan just got re-elected to the New York City Council with three times as many votes as the runner-up. And so far, he's showing how politics and government can actually make people's lives better. Shekar fights for immigrant taxi drivers, the LGBTQ community, and minorities who need good low-income housing; he went briefly to jail and got smeared by the Proud Boys, along the way. Oh - and he's doing the usual political things like getting potholes fixed.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   DESCRIPTION: Sheenaz and Saba of Queer Crescent and Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A of Lavender Phoenix join Cheryl for this week's episode of APEX Express! This first half of the episode dives into the insincerity of pinkwashing and the ways it has been utilized by the Israeli government to exploit LGBTQIA+ rights to distract from their oppressive policies towards Palestinians, both queer and non-queer. Sheenaz and Saba brilliantly expose the ways pinkwashing perpetuates Islamophobia and racist tropes about Palestinians, along with Arab, Muslim, and SWANA communities and shed light on the long history of trans and queer organizing within Palestine, uplifting work of Al Qaws, an organization at the forefront of Palestinian cultural and social change that builds LGBTQ communities and promotes new ideas about the role of gender and sexual diversity in political activism, civil society institutions, media, and everyday life. Queer Crescent urges queer organizations and leaders to speak up, take action, and demand a ceasefire, writing that “As trans, queer and non-binary people we understand too well what is at stake when our self-determination and sovereignty are removed. Palestine is a queer issue, and it is our duty to listen and learn from queer Palestinians who are living under Israeli occupation, and in the imposed Diaspora”. You can sign on to Queer Crescent's ceasefire campaign at bit.ly/PalestineisaQueerIssue. In the second half of the show we are joined by Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A of Lavender Phoenix who emphasize the importance of care within the Palestine Liberation movement, urging our listeners to not fall into feelings of inaction. They highlight the importance of grief routines and using grief and rage as tools for momentum, and ask the provoking difficult question: What could it look like for people to feel as safe at a protest as they feel at home? We also gain intimate insight into the ways Lavender Phoenix has been organizing, as Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A emphasize the interconnectedness of all of our struggles and the interconnectedness of all of our freedoms. IMPORTANT LINKS + RESOURCES: Queer Crescent's website Queer Crescent's Call for Ceasefire Sign-On Queer Crescent's Pinkwashing Resources Al Qaws's website Lavender Phoenix's website SHOW TRANSCRIPT: Cheryl: Good evening. You are tuned into apex express. We are bringing you an Asian American and Pacific Islander point of view from the bay and around the world. I'm your host, Cheryl and tonight is an acre night, which is short for Asian Americans for civil rights and equality. Apex express is proud to be one of the 11 API social justice groups within the acre network, working to advance positive social change. Tonight, we have two very spectacular guests here with us, Shenaaz and Saba from Queer Crescent. It is such an honor to have you both here with us today. Do you mind introducing yourselves? Who are you and who are your people? Saba: Hi, I'm Saba Taj. I am the communications coordinator for Queer Crescent. And, who are my people? Oh gosh, this is a beautiful question, and I think one that, changes at different moments. In large part, I really feel like I am on the side of humanity and Global dignity. As a queer Muslim from the South that struggle for our collective dignity often centers folks whom I share identities with and just more broadly, really thinking about individuals who are marginalized on multiple fronts. And so, yeah, that's a really kind of vague answer. There's a lot of different folks that are included, but, I hope that answers it for you. Shenaaz: Yeah, thanks Cheryl for inviting Saba and I on the show. Hi folks, I'm Shenaaz Janmohamed. I'm the founder and executive director of Queer Crescent. I've been asked this question ” who are my people” at different times and in the past would have this litany of folks that come to mind: parents, queers, misfits, etc. And I think what I'm feeling now and what I've noticed is that litany of folks can sometimes make the world feel smaller. What I'm pushing and striving towards is feeling a sense of home with more and more folks where there's political alignment. There's values alignment. We're struggling together. So this notion of who are my people feels like it's more of a question than it's an answer. And it keeps me hungry for finding more and more.  Cheryl: Wow. Thank you both so much for your thoughtful answers and for setting the tone of our conversation in such a provocative and intentional way.. Do you mind telling us about Queer Crescent, the work that you do, and also about your current cease fire campaign? Shenaaz: Sure, yeah, I can kick us off and then Saba feel free to weigh in. So Queer Crescent, started really as a response to the ways in which many of us, I say queer Muslim and I really mean the range of LGBTQIA plus experiences, trans folks, non binary folks, intersex folks, et cetera. So Queer Crescent really started as a drop-in support group when the Muslim and African travel ban was imposed in 2017. At the time I was working as a mental health worker largely with high schoolers and I also had a private practice. As a queer Muslim recent parent at the time was really feeling like a sense of placelessness and lack of political home where all parts of me would be held whole. And so I put together a support group and it was an overwhelming response in the community. Over 30 people would show up every two weeks. I've lived in the bay for about eight nine years at the time and I was meeting so many different people. Really the seedling of that support group led to this more national organization stretching towards base building and power building with marginal Muslims, queer Muslims. It really was like trying to create a space where we could be held and seen and move from that place of the complexity and the entireties of our identities. In terms of the ceasefire campaign, I'll kind of foreground it and then kick it to Saba, over the last several years that Queer Crescent has grown we've been able to build really solid relationships with other movement partners and other queer organizations. And linking to Palestine solidarity around bodily autonomy has always been something that has been top of mind. The assaults on Gaza are consistent and they have been for many years so when October 7th happened and the assault on Gaza and this genocide has been so intense, it required all hands on deck. Many folks who are committed to the liberation of Palestine have been calling for ceasefire. And so I asked myself, what can Queer Crescent do to play a role in calling for ceasefire and what are the links that are possible to make. Pinkwashing was a natural connect because it is very much a queer issue. Queer organizations like Al Qaws in Palestine and so many others have been talking to us about pinkwashing and making those links. It felt like a good opportunity to call for ceasefire while also doing some political education around the importance of queer people understanding and interrupting and taking on pinkwashing as part of queer liberation. Saba: Shenaaz, I feel like you covered the grounding. That was, I think, perfect. But Cheryl, there's additional questions about the campaign.  Cheryl: Yes! I have many questions. For starters, what is pink washing and Saba I'm taking this line directly from Queer Crescent's ceasefire campaign description, which you wrote. How is pinkwashing used as a strategy to advance Zionist colonial violence? Saba: Yeah. So pinkwashing is a form of propaganda that's used by Israel. The aim of it is ultimately to dehumanize the Palestinian people and use this racist trope that Arabs and Muslims and Middle Eastern SWANA people are anti queer and trans and are ultimately homophobic and backwards. It's part of a larger narrative of these groups of people not being with the times and trying to create some sort of image. Not trying to, but very actively pushing a story that Israel is the place of progress, of freedom, when in fact they are using these stories of Palestinians, Muslims, et cetera, being homophobic as an excuse to dehumanize them as cover for their own violent actions. So it's a distraction from their racist and violent policies, projecting an image of freedom and safety for queer people in Israel that is not in fact true. You can't be for queer liberation while also bombing these people and oppressing this entire group. There's no way for those things to happen at the same time, and I think it's part of a larger strategy that we see also play out in terms of feminism. That story is very familiar, where after 9 11, we have to go save Muslim women from these evil, savage Muslim men, and to do so, we're going to bomb all of these communities.  It's a strategy you utilize to justify violence. It splits our communities in ways like a divide and conquer sort of tactic; this larger story of you can't be queer and Muslim at the same time, or you can't be a feminist and be Muslim at the same time. And that ultimately serves to split our movements and reinforce a racist stereotype that makes the larger public feel that it is justified to behave in violent and oppressive ways towards an entire people through some excuse that they actually don't care about one another. Shenaaz, if you want to jump in. Shenaaz: I appreciate the links you're making and ultimately I think pinkwashing strategies or the splitting that you're talking about requires a betrayal of the self. Only if you betray some part of yourself can you feel a sense of belonging. And as queer people in our queer bodies, we know that is just not the case.  When your experience is being exploited, it's very evident. The work ahead is both combating the colonial violence, making the violence stop, demanding ceasefire now, and the continuous work of continuing to show up in our full selves as queer people, and affirm our sense of belonging within our communities despite both the state violence and the ways in which our belonging is interrupted, both from external forces and internal.  Cheryl: Thank you both so much. I think that imagery of splitting. And the ways pink washing shows up, especially for queer Muslim people is really powerful, especially that line Shenaaz, pink washing requires a betrayal of the self. Could either of you talk a little bit more on the impact of this splitting internally within SWANA communities.  Shenaaz: Well, I don't think that Saba and I could speak to experiences of SWANA folk because neither Saba and I are SWANA, we're both South Asian. I think the ways in which we come into this conversation, as folks who are Muslim who grew up in Muslim community and that adjacent experience, where Queer Crescent's central project is to blow breath into what it means to be a Muslim. And so Muslim multiplicity, nuance, contradictions, self determination around what your relationship to Muslim is, and a self determined Muslim identity. One of the many functions of Islamophobia and anti Muslim racism as an outgrowth of white supremacy is to dehumanize people.  In the case of what Saba was saying earlier, it limits what can be possible of a people. There's this assertion that Muslim communities are inherently homophobic, inherently patriarchal. There were queer Muslim folks prior to colonization. It was the advent of colonization with it's imposed Christian, dogmatic, very strict notions of gender that actually interrupted what was otherwise a much more fluid sense of gender. So part of it is understanding those lineages and that history. And then it's also confronting the realities that are present today.  Saba: Yeah. I think it also really obscures a lot of reality as well.  One that there are queer Palestinians who are organizing and doing this work within their own communities, Al Qaws being folks that we really look to and want to amplify and follow their leadership. But even in the U. S., you can really see clearly this story of we are in the United States, the harbingers of progress, and yet anti trans laws and the oppression, the silencing of queer people and trans people in this country– we haven't solved these things. . It's a story that is used for a particular purpose and that purpose is just to justify war. That is the actual priority. It's not about queer liberation. It feels incredibly obvious that is not actually the priority of the United States or of Israel, especially when if they were actually to be for progress, for queer and trans liberation, by design, that means you would not be moving in these ways. Cheryl: That was perfectly said.  There is the strange dissonance going on with pink washing that, just as you said Saba, has nothing to do with trans and queer liberation at all. I know queer Crescent has compiled a thorough pink washing resource list. How can our listeners access that? Saba: We put out a call to queer orgs to sign on to a letter that outlines that Palestine is a queer issue and is naming pinkwashing in particular as a framework that we need to be very familiar with because it's a copy paste situation. This pinkwashing strategy is used really clearly and blatantly by Israel but also more broadly applied in other circumstances as well. So really calling on queer folks to understand that we have stakes in this and as Organizations as individuals who are committed to that liberation. We must recognize and move in a way that centers Palestine also as a queer issue, connect to it in that way. It is our responsibility. So the letter is online. It's bit.ly/PalestineisaQueerIssue. It can also be found via our Instagram. It's one of the links in our bio as well as the pinkwashing resources, which can be further accessed via that letter. That's a great way to get connected with us. We are also planning some pinkwashing teach ins, so that we can help further this political education and make those connections so folks feel empowered to speak on this issue and bring more folks into calling for a ceasefire, understanding that this is in our broad interest as a community of LGBTQI plus organizations and individuals. Shenaaz: Yeah. The only piece that I would add is this is a really horrific. moment of witnessing genocide and the fight for a free Palestine is a long fight. And so this is also a moment to shore up deeper solidarity. And part of solidarity is supporting people with learning the ways in which they, our struggles are connected.  And again really helping queer people understand pink washing, both as such a well oiled used tool of Israel and its settler colonial project and occupation of Palestine, but also the ways in which Israel is this. Model for other colonial powers to learn from through military, through cops and also pinkwashing.  We see, for example, India adopting pinkwashing strategies as well to again blur its power and its own project of ethnic cleansing of Muslims, Dalits, Christians, and anyone who doesn't subscribe to the Hindu fascist notion Modi and his government is trying to push. And so it's also really important for queer people to understand this strategy of pinkwashing, to interrupt the Israeli propaganda, but also to notice and be on alert for other colonial and state forces that also use pinkwashing to further other political gains that are in direct opposition to us having safety and bodily autonomy and freedoms. Cheryl: All of these amazing resources will also be linked within our show notes. For maybe one of the final questions do you mind expanding more about this interconnectedness between all of our movements, how to quote from the ceasefire campaign “as a queer Muslim org we recognize that there is no queer trans non binary and femme Muslim liberation without Palestine. Could you expand on this a little bit more? Saba: Yeah. the interconnectedness of our struggles is just such a critical piece, that shows up in this moment and so many others. And I can track that and name as a queer Muslim person, the Black Lives Matter movement was also integral. When we think about our freedom, we must always be looking towards how we can disrupt, dismantle systems of oppression, of policing, of dehumanization that are perpetuated across so many different lines. And that connection I think is really critical because it becomes so easy to think about safety on an individual level. How can I personally be comfortable? How can I personally be safe? But oftentimes what that requires within a capitalist framework is somebody else not being safe.  As long as our systems of safety are contingent on the oppression of one or many groups, none of us are actually safe. If you look deep into policy, just to further articulate this, the Patriot Act not only impacted Muslims in the U. S. and more broadly, but immigrants. We're not only Muslim, you see that police violence in the U. S. is not disconnected. Anti blackness that is so obvious and rife in our policing in the United States is also in relationship with Israel. Much of the police across the nation is trained by Israeli IDF. And if we're not actually seeing those connections, then ultimately we are not dismantling those larger systems that serve to direct their violence, their silencing towards different groups at different times, but ultimately all serve to uphold white supremacy.  I think it can be very tempting when it feels like the target is not specifically on our own back to feel like maybe we can find some safety by being close have some proximity to whiteness in different moments. And we really need to resist that urge. Even when they're not looking directly at us, if there is a group of people who are being named as enemy, who are being actively dehumanized whether that is subtle or blatant, that is all of our business, and those are strategies that will be certainly used against us at a different time when it's in the interest of consolidating white supremacy.  These strategies can be used to target so many of us. Also this notion that we are separate groups is also often not the case. There is overlap so we must, at all turns, be on the side of liberation, on the side of pushing for community care, as opposed to our money going towards violence, which is the root of so much of this. The interests of the  S. and Israel is power at the expense of people, not actually about how to care for their own people.  Shenaaz: Yeah, if I could just build on that as well. I think that's such an important point that you're making when there is one community that is facing assault in this case, Palestine and Palestinian liberation movement organizers. It also becomes a moment where harmful policies and decisions are made in rapid fire to your point around the Patriot Act. For example, right now there is the potential of a reauthorization of section 702, which is a section of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and Queer Crescent is a part of many other Muslim progressive organizations that are trying to resist this. But this moment of increased violence against Palestinians that is being met by mass mobilization in the form of protest, of shutting things down, deep solidarity is being met from the elected official side and the state side with more more strategies for repression. We're seeing much more police force at protest. And then we're seeing things like the reauthorization and the expansion of the surveillance apparatus and the surveillance state. And so while that is Popping up in response to the swell of solidarity with Palestine, everyone will suffer under more expansion of surveillance, not just Palestinians, not just Muslims, right. So it is then both our responsibility to be in solidarity as people who are committed to liberation for a free Palestine, but is also tactically and strategic for us to be stronger together. And those that are the most vulnerable under increased suppression and surveillance are those that the most on the margins, be it poor working class, disabled, queer, trans, sex workers, incarcerated, et cetera. There's always so many things happening simultaneously and we need each other, you know, in short. Cheryl: We do need each other. Well, Shenaaz, Saba, thank you both so, so much for being on tonight's show. For all of our listeners out there, to stay in contact and to keep up with Queer Crescent's work, Shenaaz, do you mind reminding us one last time how our listeners can keep up with Queer Crescent?  Shenaaz: Yeah you can follow us, our website is queercrescent.org. Thanks to Saba, we have a pretty active social media presence through Instagram, so it's @queercrescent. And then the amazing, resources and call for ceasefire, is at bit.ly/PalestineisaQueerIssue  Thank you so much for having us on, Cheryl, and I think it's really important before we end to give a strong solidarity and love to Al Qaws, the Palestinian queer organization in Palestine, who have been talking to many of us about pinkwashing, about resisting colonialism, and about really centering liberation and queerness as two things that are not mutually exclusive, but part of the same liberation project. They've got great resources, really encourage folks to support them, learn from them and follow their lead in the ways that we are trying to do with this campaign.  Cheryl: Thank you so much Shenaaz for ending us on such a great note, the link to Al Qaws' website and socials will be also linked in our show notes. Now before I introduced our next guests, we're going to do a quick music break. This song is “Anger (DPT)” by the Khamsa Music Project. Hope you enjoy.   PT2: LAVENDER PHOENIX   Welcome back to the show, everyone. You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org.. You were just listening to “Anger (H.T.P.)” by the Khamsa Music Project. We've reached the final half of our show where we're joined by Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A– three incredible organizers and members of Lavender Phoenix. Lavender Phoenix along with APEX Express are two of the eleven AAPI social justice groups within the AACRE network working to advance social change. It is such a great pleasure and honor to have the three of you here with us on the show. Do you mind introducing yourself for our listeners here tonight? Who are you and who are your people?  Cynthia: Of course, thanks Cheryl for having us. I'll get us started. My name is Cynthia. I use they/them pronouns. I am the lead organizer at Lavender Phoenix. I'll pass it to Kaiyah.  Kaiyah: Hello. Hello. I'm Kaiyah. I use they and he pronouns. I've been a Community Safety Committee member for a couple years and a volunteer for much longer. I'll pass it to A. A: Hi hi, my name is A. I use she/her pronouns, and I've been a Community Safety Committee member since 2021 and also a volunteer slash person who hung around before then. Cheryl: Thanks for indulging me in that quick Round Robin. Can you tell our listeners who is Lavender Phoenix, and what is the role that LavNix plays within the movement for Palestinian liberation?  Cynthia: Yeah, of course. Here at Lavender Phoenix, we organize with trans and queer Asians and Pacific Islanders here in the Bay Area. We build power through our organizing, inspire and train grassroots leaders, transform our values from scarcity to abundance, and we also build vibrant intersectional movements. We work with our youth, but we also have a community of elders and our history has been a lot of intergenerational work and oral histories. And as trans and queer Asians and Pacific Islanders, I think it's important for us to know how deep in our legacy our relationship with state violence is. We have lessons from the AIDS epidemic, and we also need to stand on the lessons that we experience from our homelands. From all of this, we know that organizing in solidarity right now with Palestinians is actually the best way to make that argument for true healing and safety. All the money that's going into this war, violence, and the prison industrial complex, those are resources that could actually go towards healing our earth, feeding our people, housing people. They actually call Palestine an open air prison, and we know that we have better ways to spend our money, better things to do with our time, than to incarcerate and murder people. We want to mourn for our dead, and we fight like hell for the living. And we know that right now, it is not just an actual war, but there's a war in ideology. Are we going to go for weapons and corporate greed, or are we going to fight for a new world? Kaiyah: Yeah, I was gonna kind of go off what Cynthia said about how our struggles are connected. The money that is going to weapons, going to fuel the military, to take people's lives in Palestine. That money could be used instead to uplift life all around the world and also here in the US where people are houseless. People don't have enough food. People don't have their basic needs met. Safety could be realized in a very practical way instead of using it to take people's lives. And for me, I was thinking about how to become more human is to be aware that we're all connected. And this isn't just like a pretty thing to say, cause literally we're seeing money being sent over there could be used differently. A lot of different cultures and different organizations I've been a part of really hold this value that we're all connected. You hear people say things about Ubuntu and Kapwa– that I am because of who we are and I guess I've developed this sense of connectedness to other people across the world and people in Palestine– many of whom I've never met. I was thinking about why I felt so connected to it. I definitely had this sense that like. I'm seeing my siblings across the world suffering and in pain. What else can I do but try to stop that pain? I see my siblings across the world in Israel are harming others and causing pain. What can I do except to ask them and demand of them to do differently to stop hurting others. We wrote in our organization's plan that to support Palestine is to support our own liberation as well.  Palestinian struggle is our struggle and Palestinian futures are our futures. So that's kind of how I've been thinking about it. I don't know if you want to add anything, A?  A: That's so beautiful Kaiyah.  Yeah, and absolutely resonate with all of that. I guess the last thing I'll add is that I think we also have a really unique opportunity as Asian Americans, as people living in the heart of empire. This is happening overseas, but it's very much a result of our government. The United States is ultimately the most culpable here. So I think as people living here, as people who are voting our representatives into office, who give that legitimacy to our government, I think we both have a responsibility, but also a unique power that most people in the world don't have. That is such a unique opportunity that we have as Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in the United States. Yeah, we're a marginalized group here, but we're still, relatively speaking, have so much strength in both our position and privilege and also in the ways that we connect to each other. Cheryl: Thank you all so much for speaking to that. From Cynthia and Kaiyah, we're hearing the interconnectedness of all of our struggles to Palestine, and also from A, the positionality and as a result responsibility we have as people within the global north who are complicit within this genocide.  Before we continue this incredible conversation. We're going to take a short music break. Go ahead, grab some water and maybe a snack. And we'll be right back after we listened to “Power Struggle” by Kultural Worker  And we're back. You were tuned into apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org.. I'm here in conversation with Cynthia, Kaiyah, and A from Lavender Phoenix, a grassroots organization, building trans and queer API power in the bay area. You were just listening to “Power Struggle” by Kultural Worker. Now let's get back to the show.  The next question I have for you all revolves around how a lot of Asian Americans, by way of class privilege or otherwise, are decidedly apolitical even though our existences themselves, as you all have been saying, are extremely political and are extremely interconnected within the Palestinian struggle for liberation. How do we get our communities thinking and taking action on this?  A: I can take a first pass, because this is something I truly think about all the time, you know, how do we collect our people? I feel like it really goes back to what Kaiyah was just saying about our humanity is all connected, and to care about other people is to also care about ourselves. It's really hard to do, but this key piece of how do you get people to see that systems of oppression, even if they ostensibly benefit you and guarantee you real material privilege, they also detract from your humanity, and they also make your lives actively materially worse in a lot of ways, or spiritually worse in a lot of ways. I really struggle with how to implement that. It's a hard thing to convey. In movement spaces, over time I, finally, like, you know, got it. But I think that is really what the work is, right? Even if you are not at the bottom of a hierarchy, even if you're at the top of a hierarchy, a system of oppression dehumanizes the oppressor too. Kaiyah: I really feel that. I, I really feel like in this time, there's been a lot of spiritual growth as people are seeing just what is truly important in life. I've been hearing so many people talk about how what's important has become crystal clear as they see people across the world having their lives taken and being like, wow, we really have to do something about this. I'm going to kind of take it a different direction. In general, I think something I often see is that people who care about what's happening to other people who are being oppressed become really overwhelmed with grief and the feelings that come with witnessing something terrible and either become stuck in that and become stuck in inaction because they're overwhelmed, or detach from it because they're not sure what else they can do. Maybe they attempt to take some action, but then it feels futile. Is this actually making an impact? I guess what I'm trying to talk about right now is what can give people hope so that they feel like mobilizing is worth it and mobilizing can be effective. How do we get to that and that? Those things I named around inaction definitely apply to me. In the past I would attempt to organize. I would be like, is this really working? How do I even know it's working? God. Or just feeling like I can't engage with this. I'm I'm going to cry my eyeballs out if I think about this for more than five seconds. So I want to share about two main things that have helped move me from hopelessness and overwhelm into action and to stay there. So the first one is a practice of welcoming and making space for grief in my life, grief and rage. Grief and rage is often trying to remind me of what I yearn for, what I'm missing, what I care for, and what I deeply love. People say grief is love with no place to go, right? So I try to spend time with this grief to give it a place to go and do things to help it flow through me. Not to distract from it, not to get rid of it, but to let it move; to let it be. So I might like scream in my car. I might say to myself okay I'm really feeling this grief and rage today, what do I want to do? Okay, maybe i'm gonna scream my car. I'm going to listen to loud music. I'm going to go by a walk by the water. I've also been making a lot of altars and just giving thanks in nature to feel connected to what's in the world and feel like nature's helping me hold all these feelings. I might go to the gym to run out my feelings or talk to a friend. And all these things help me feel the grief and rage and let it move through me instead of sitting there and overwhelming me and demobilizing me. So instead that grief and rage can take the form of love and the care that it's trying to express. It's like I'm able to take all this pain I feel for my siblings in Gaza so that it fuels me to act instead of preventing me from acting through that overwhelm. The second thing I want to share that kind of moves me from hopelessness into action is to hone my understanding of strategy. I feel like nothing feeds hopelessness for me like pointless action, or action where the outcome and purpose is so unclear or if I'm not sure how its impact is going to play out. So for my actions to feel purposeful, I need to know, one, what is the outcome of my action? And two, how does that outcome fit into a larger plan or strategy? How does it feed into an overall goal of Palestinian liberation, per se? For example, I might tell myself, okay, I know that some protests are meant to be a part of many protests internationally that together are meant to draw more media attention or put more pressure on representatives. Other protests might happen even when the goal seems futile because to stay silent and let it happen without a fight would be even more damaging to our spirits. Maybe it serves some other purposes. Some other protests might be to directly intervene on organizations that are sending weapons and supplies and resourcing oppressive systems across the globe. Some protests are meant to directly slow that down or grind that industry to a halt. There's much more, but those are just some examples of things I think about when I go to a protest to make it really clear to myself what the function is of each action I'm a part of so I'm clear about how my little bit adds to a much larger goal, and it doesn't feel futile. And I know what the risks are, what the outcomes could be and what I'm fighting for in really certain terms, so I can have faith in my own impact. So I just want to share that long chunk as a hope that it might give other people some insight of how they might want to move out of hopelessness and let that grief and rage take another form. Cheryl: Thank you so much, Kaiyah. I was giving myself a hug just listening to you speak. It's important that we feel more rather than just feel better. We can hold all of these nuances without looking away. Cynthia, is there anything you wanted to add to that? Cynthia: I think today we're recording the Trans Day of Remembrance, and I know that this week, there is a holiday. I would encourage us to actually be celebrating the Indigenous Peoples Day. This theme of grief, rage, what we do with it, how we not let it immobilize us. I think is so sharp. This question about strategy too, because it has been 75 years of occupation, I'm actually really grateful for the leadership of Palestinians in this moment. This question of what do we do with this energy and how I've seen them move hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people all across this world to stand in solidarity. That is because of that strategy. And really, let's just get sharp. It's not just the politicians, but the weapons; manufacturing; the tech. It's all connected. How do we put our pressure where power is and contest for that? .  Cheryl: As I'm listening to all of you speak, I'm hearing so much about the importance of taking care of our spirits as important and integral part of our strategy. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the importance of care and collectiveness within the Lavender Phoenix's organization and structure, and how it aligns itself with Palestinian liberation?  A: I think something that I noticed that was really interesting when this latest slate of intensified violence started is people in LavNix started with, I'm going to this protest, who's coming? Then, people were pulling together Signal chats, and we were all coming together, but it was, like everyone had this urge to do something, and LavNix provided that home to do that and resources to do that. I know if I go to a protest I will have a group of people to meet up with there, and be safe with there. LavNix provides this base that allows us to take strategic, powerful action, and that's only possible because of all of the building that we have been doing before this point, like the work of our Community Safety Committee training folks on de-escalation practice, and now that folks are trained, they can go volunteer as protest marshals and do community safety work in that way. Or our healing justice committee providing peer counseling support for folks and helping folks be emotionally grounded so then in a moment of really intense violence, there's like a higher baseline of stability that allows us to do more. I think it's especially helpful in this moment. because it creates an organized resource group of people that can then go take action that is risky and difficult sometimes.  Kaiyah: Yeah, I have been really appreciating how I have an organization to organize with. I have a group of people to organize with in this moment that is Lavender Phoenix, because I see so many people asking right now, Oh, I want to do something. How do I help? And while I believe that everyone can get involved and everyone can mobilize themselves if they would like to, it also is really helpful that we've already had that sense of trust built. We know each other so we can ask each other to join up on higher risk actions because we know how to work together already , whereas we wouldn't be able to ask that to a completely new stranger. Something else I was thinking about in terms of caring for each other at protests was actually a conversation I was having with another Lavender Phoenix member the other day, so I'm stealing this from them. They were asking, “What could it look like for people to feel as safe as a protest as they feel at home?” Not that we were thinking that we're ever going to get there per se, but it was just something we want to think about because I want people who join protests and actions to take really informed risks and be trained in what to expect and how they can maybe react in those situations, especially in escalated situations if that happens.  On a personal level, the way I feel healing and care is showing up is again, it's similar to those grief routines. I'll often set aside time to just be really silent after a protest and be by myself, make sure I have a meal prepped at home. Maybe take some time to listen to sad music, really do my thing to move through those feelings because I can often feel really disoriented and kind of discombobulated from all the adrenaline after a protest, or maybe even more sad because it's got me thinking about everything happening to my Palestinian siblings, so that's how healing and care is showing up. Did you want to add anything, Cynthia?  Cynthia: I would say it has been special to see how our membership has kind of snowballed into this collective action Started with a few of us. And then there were maybe 10 of us, 20 of us, and then at one point there were 50 of us, and it was I think a testament to trans and queer APIs just feeling that connection, feeling that love, wanting to put that love into action and do that with our community, because we know we keep us safe and we have something to contribute to the broader movement around us. Like we know we can bring that and where we organize, we contribute a lot. And so it's something to be really grateful for.  Kaiyah: Yes, I feel so grateful as well. Cheryl: I'm feeling so grateful for this conversation and I'm so grateful that organizations like Lavender Phoenix exist and can cultivate these strong senses of communities. And really y'all do such a great job. Cynthia, do you mind letting us know what are ways that people can follow and stay in touch with Lavender Phoenix and what y'all are up to?  Cynthia: Yeah, of course. We are celebrating a new graduating class of Rise Up members. Our organization, we're doing things externally, but also building internally. You can find us on Instagram @lavphoenix. You Google us, you'll find our website as well. Keep in touch. We'd love to see you around. Kaiyah: Trans and queer Asian and Pacific Islander people, come find us. .  Cheryl: And that's the end of our show. Please check out our website, kpfa.org to learn more about Queer Crescent and Lavender Phoenix.   We'd We'd like to thank all of our listeners out there. Keep dreaming folks. A better world is possible.   Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!    The post APEX Express – 11.23.23 Queers for a FREE PALESTINE appeared first on KPFA.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. “We are a small group of people, and if we are annihilated the world won't even miss us because most of the world doesn't even know we exist.” The Kuki-Zomi tribal community of Manipur, a small picturesque state in north-east India, has been witnessing violent ethnic conflict in which over 120 lives have been tragically lost and more than 50,000 individuals displaced from their ancestral homes since May 2023. Hosts Miko Lee and Cheryl Truong are joined by Niang Hangzo and Sonny Gangte, both members of the impacted Kuki-Zomi and a part of the North American Manipur Tribal Association @namtaus. They unravel the complexities of Manipur's crisis and the factors perpetuating this atrocious humanitarian violation against the Kuki people. CONTENT WARNING: Please be advised that the things we're going to be talking about and what has been happening to the Kuki-Zomi people of Manipur is horrific. Tonight's show handles sensitive topics, such as violence, genocide, gender based violence and sexual assault. Our show's transcript will be available to read in our show notes for those who would like to process at their own pace. Stay updated on the Manipur crisis and the incredible work by the North American Manipur Tribal Association by following their socials: https://twitter.com/NamtaUs https://www.facebook.com/namtaus/ https://www.instagram.com/namtaus/ https://www.youtube.com/@AdminNAMTA namta.us and namta.us/donate Niang's article APEX Express: Manipur's Humanitarian Crisis Show Transcript ​ Cheryl Truong: Before we begin here is a content warning. Please be advised that the things we're going to be talking about, and what is happening to the Kuki-Zomi people of Manipur is… Horrific. Tonight's show handles sensitive topics, such as violence, genocide, gender based violence and sexual assault. Our show's transcript will be available to read in our show notes for those who would like to process at their own pace. Please do whatever you must to take care of yourself. Miko Lee: Good evening, you're on APEX Express. This is Miko Lee and Cheryl Truong, and tonight is an AACRE night. AACRE is Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, and APEX Express is proud to be part of the AACRE network. Cheryl Truong: For tonight's show, we're going to be unpacking some of the violence that has been taking place in the Indian state of Manipur. Protests have erupted all over America, including the series of actions that took place Sunday of last week in the bay area led by NAMTA, the North American Manipur Tribal Association, and one of our AACRE groups, ASATA, Alliance of South Asians Taking Action. The Sunday actions were in support of the Kuki-Zomi tribal community of Manipur who have been facing ongoing violence by the ethnic majority, the Meiteis. The Kuki-Zomis, a predominantly Christian indigenous community.., are facing genocide as their villages, churches and communities are being razed by the Meitei community, a largely Hindu ethnic group who account for about 50% of the state's population. This assault of the Kuki people has been ongoing since May, but is only recently getting traction for reasons we'll get into later. Here to speak out about what's been going on are two members of the impacted Kuki tribe and members of NAMTA, Niang Hongzo and Sonny Gangte. Thank you both so much for being here. To start do you mind telling our listeners who are at the Kuki-Zomis and what is going on in Manipur? Niang Hangzo: Thank you for having me here. I'm Niang Hangzo and I am a Kuki-Zomi woman. When I talk to people, I ask them, Where do you think I'm from?” and almost nine times out of ten, they'll say I'm outside of India, maybe Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, but they never think I'm Indian. Kuki-Zomi people are indigenous to Manipur, to the hills of Manipur, and we are 16% of the population, and we are Christians. But because Manipur is a small state about 8,621 square miles, and it has two distinct geography, the valley, there's a hill and valley and the valley is also where the capital is. And it is very developed– all the infrastructure, the high seats of learning, any advanced facilities, education center, et cetera– is concentrated hundred percent in the valley. And the valley is where the Meitei live. There are three distinct ethnicities in Manipur: the Meiteis, who are the majority and primarily Hindu, and then there are Nagas, and the Kuki-Zomis. The Naga and Kuki-Zomis primarily live in the hills. We are hill tribes, indigenous to the hills. But because of jobs, et cetera, a lot of us live in Imphal. My family lived in Imphal for 60 years because my parents worked for the government of Manipur. And what's interesting about me is that my mother is a Meitei and my father is one of the subtribe of the Kuki-Zomis. So when we say Kuki-Zomi, it is a conglomerate of subtribes. So it's not one tribe, it's multiple small tribes, 16% of the population. The total population of the state is about 3 million from the last 2011 official census, we are barely above half a million. So we talking about a very small section of people. People that the world does not even know exists most of the time, like I started with how people mistake us for somebody outside of India. We are very small in number– that's over half a million– about seven to eight tribes all together. Cheryl Truong: That's so interesting, Niang, that you mentioned that your mother is Meitei, and your father is Kuki-Zomi. I know you wrote an essay for the American Kahani, a very detailed report on your family, what they were going through when all the violence erupted in Manipur on May 3rd. Do you mind sharing a little bit about what your family experienced? Niang Hangzo: Yes. Like I mentioned, my family has lived in Imphal in a locality called PaiteVeng which literally means where Paites live. I mentioned that I belong to a tribe, Paite, which is one of the Kuki-Zomi tribes. My father actually founded that colony with two other Paite men in the 60s. And they've been embroiled in the social fabric of Imphal, and we have Meitei relatives, we speak Meitei, we speak our Paite language, and we speak English. We, you know, we've lived there, and our neighbors know us. My mother was a nurse. I think 90% of births in Manipur were delivered at home. And as a nurse, she delivered the babies around the Meitei localities that surround PaiteVeng– everyone knows our family, you know, it's the first house next to the main highway. And on May 3rd, around eight o'clock, there was a sudden rush of people coming to the locality, and then there was a huge noise. In Manipur, among the Metis, when they have trouble or they want people to come out of their houses, they take rods and they hit the electric pole. And that is a cry to the community to come out; that there's trouble or something important is happening. So that happened. My family knew there had been trouble the Kuki-Zomi area in Churachandpur earlier in the day. They expected some sort of civil unrest, maybe burning of tires, pelting of stones. They just locked the gate. My family lived in a compound with four houses in there with my brothers, they had their own homes. Each family, cowered in, in one room and waited for trouble to die down. They thought it'll die out, but it didn't. They could hear the crowd, the roar of people. And one of my nephew went upstairs and he peeped out and he said, the church is burning. Our church is burning. And that's when they knew this is no ordinary agitation. In Manipur with all the distinct ethnicities, we've had troubles with each other among ourselves. But, we've never had a church burn or any places of worship attack. So this was different. Absolutely different. We've never had our churches burned or attacked. So they knew something was wrong. My sister called my brother and he said he was already sheltering in the neighbor's house in the neighboring compound. So the neighboring compound there were multiple houses belonging to another family, and they had a big house that was now rented by a Meitei man, and he ran it as a hotel. My brother said, “Come over.” My sister; my mom was 86 years old– they left. My mom was completely shocked and she couldn't wear her shoes they struggled and got out in the nick of time. They took shelter in the hotel for a bit with the rest of my family. They're like, I think, 20 of them, because I come from a large family. And there were other people in the hotels our neighborhood. The owner was a Meitei man and he was very kind. He allowed them to come in, but he said the mob had grown. They had started burning our neighbor's house and our house. So he said, they're going to come here next. There's no way I can protect you. He talked to the cops and he negotiated safe passage for us. So of all the people in our neighborhood, our family was the only one that came face to face with the mob. Because of this man, this kind man who negotiated safe passage, we were escorted out by the cops and the mob parted and they let us through. The young men in the mob said, “This is ” Ibok*– means grandma. We know her. Do not touch our family. And that's why our family was saved. I mean, because there were many instances on the fort, for example, where they actually killed Kuki-Zomi people. We are very lucky and the story is very long, but eventually they ended up in army camps. The interesting thing is that my family had my mom, 86 years old, and she had a great grandchild who was just one year old, as well as her grandson who was almost two years old, and another one that was four years old. And my youngest sister has down syndrome so we have all kinds of ages. And it's very difficult to keep the kids, the babies quiet and so on. So they had a really tough time, but I have another sister in California. We managed to get them out to Delhi and they're safe. So thank God we are very lucky. We lost everything we own. They burned our houses, our cars, and whatever they didn't burn, they looted. But we still think we are the luckiest family because they were together. My nephew's daughter, she's 11 years old. When they were being herded to safety and finally at the camp, they never felt secure. She told her grandmother, ‘At least we are together. At least we'll die together” This is from 11 year old. Cheryl Truong: Thank you Niang for sharing that. That must have been really difficult to write. Niang's essay will be linked in our show notes. A lot of the headlines I've been seeing reporting on what's been going on in Manipur has been framing the violence as an ethnic violence. But Niang mentions that her family was surprised at how a lot of her community churches were being burned down. Of course the Meitei violence against the Kuki-Zomis is an ethnic dispute against tribal communities, but there seems to be another dimension to it. Sonny. Do you think you can talk a little bit about that? Sonny Gangte: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Cheryl. I am also a member of the Kuki-Zomi community. As Niang mentioned, we are a persecuted minority in Manipur. The state is divided into three predominant groups. Majority Meitei group, which comprises more than 50%. And then the Nagas who are also a tribal group, but they are not involved in this ethnic cleansing. And then there's the Kuki-Zomi community, who is predominantly being targeted. We are 16% of the Manipur state's population. And the state government has been pre- planning violence against the Kuki-Zomi community and we know this because there have been many instances of the government trying to take over tribal lands by legislative means, you know, they would conduct a bogus survey and declare that this land is a protected forest, and then the tribal indigenous people who have been living there for hundreds of thousands of years, would then be evicted. The Meitei the state government is hand in glove with the Meitei community and the majority Métis radical groups. There are a couple of radical groups, one of them called Arambai Tenggol which is basically a sort of the militant wing of their community. And then there is Meitei Leepun which on paper seems to espouse unity and cultural heritage of the Meiteis but in reality, they are the ones radicalizing the entire Meitei community and trying to malign the Kuki-Zomi community. And as you said, they have been trying to change the narrative, right? The state government under Biren Singh, when he came to power, he's the chief minister much like the governor of the state. When he came into power he has been trying to spread this propaganda of the Kuki-Zomi people being illegal immigrants from neighboring Myanmar which is absolutely not the case. There are small number of refugees who have been given shelter in Manipur by certain communities, but by no means are the Kuki people illegal immigrants. They are indigenous to the area and they have been there for so long. Niang Hangzo: If I could just jump in there. Sonny mentioned that there's been land grab attempts and the Meitei can do that because in Manipur. They have 40 seats out of 60 in the state legislature. And this gives them majority to pass any bills. And in 2015 they passed a bill, their first attempt, and there was a huge protest from the tribals so that went nowhere. Then Biren Singh came to power in 2017. He is very different from the previous chief minister. He is the architect of the ethnic cleansing and the genocide that's going on in Manipur. He's the one who started using xenophobic tropes to turn the Kuki-Zomi into the other. We've been living side by side. We are neighbors with them. So to turn the neighbors against us, they started this propaganda. And the older people know, most sensible people know, but a lot of the people just grabbed onto this and they just ran with it. But these are nothing but xenophobic tropes. There were many serious attempts to land grab. In 2022, for example, they expanded the Indian Forest Act 1927, and just like Sonny mentioned, they'll just went and turned our villages and claimed that these villages are now protected forests. These villages are wildlife sanctuaries. These villages are reserve forests. And so this is another way to grab lands and they evicted our villages, like there was in, I think, February of 2023, they went and just bulldozed a village. I think this is something that's not just in Manipur, they've used things like environment protection, climate change, protecting the environment, preserving forests, as dog whistles, just to grab tribal land. That's one thing. And the other thing that they did was they'd say, Oh, that hill. That is a seed of our God. Oh, that place. And these are all tribal lands. Oh, that place over there, like in Behiang, Chivu, they said, Oh, that one, you know what, our king, his footprints are found there. I don't know what that means, but somehow they use that to grab our land, and they never consulted the tribal people, our leaders. They've been doing this land grab progressively over the years, and suddenly from 2022, they've just been doing this coming on full force. Miko Lee: Niang, what was the change making factor in 2022 that, that ramped up this whole situation? You said that the land grab has been going on for a long time and the oppression of the tribal folks has been going on, but was there some kind of catalyst that changed things in 2022? Niang Hangzo: I wish we knew. If we had known that I think we would not have been taken by surprise, but we know that since 2022 that's when the whole population, or even the TV, their media started using the tropes that I mentioned to make us be the other. So something escalated. Only they would know what the plan is, but they started doing things like that and maybe Sonny might know more, but we don't know what was the tipping point or what caused it, but it escalated and everyone noticed. Sonny Gangte: It's been simmering. The trouble has been simmering for many years, and it coincides with this current chief minister, Biren Singh, coming to power, and over the last several years, that has been the case. But even before this, the Kuki-Zomi people have been marginalized for years, because we never had the seats in government. They always had 40 seats. And the 10 seats might go to the Nagas and 10 seats to the Kukis. So right now the community has only 10 seats and we can never enact legislation that favors us. For many, many years growing up in, in Manipur it's always Meitei centric– Meitei being the majority community, right? And that's the sort of image that the people of Manipur have cultivated. The term ‘Manipuri' sort of exclusively refers to the Meitei people, not us, even though we are from Manipur. Some of the examples, the hospitals, the airport, the colleges, they're all Imphal. And then Churachandpur is the second largest town, and that is a stronghold of the Kuki-Zomi community. Churachand was the name of the Meitei king and the people of this town have now renounced it and they prefer to call it Lanka. And so that's where we're from, Lanka. Niang Hangzo: I think this is very important that people know that Meitei fought with the British in 1891 and they appointed this puppet king, who was Churachand, a little boy. Before that the place that they called Churachandpur was always ours. The Meitei kings never, ever ruled over the hills. The hills are ruled by tribes. And we don't have kings, we have chiefs, similarly for the Nagas. But our ancestors would interact with them. They would sometimes even go down to the valley and raid. So we were always fighting with them and we would have an uneasy alliance. The British administered us, but the king of Meitei ruled in that 700 square miles, which is the valley. Historically, we had never been under a Meitei administration until we became a state. The Churachandpur name is only as old as I think it was 1917 or 19 something, after the Kukigal. But, before that, it was Lamka. And the British were still there. I think they were doing something, maybe it was after the First World War or something like that, because a lot of Kuki-Zomi signed up to commemorate that the name of the place was changed to Churachandpur. But before that, it was always the indigenous Lamka. That's how we call it. And we've always called it Lamka. Miko Lee: So part of the actions that have been going on, part of it I'm hearing from you both is a land grab, and the other part , is around religious persecution. Is that right? Can you expand more on that? What is the impetus for this recent surge in violence? Sonny Gangte: Right. The Meiteis follow the majority Hindu religion, and then the Kuki-Zomi are predominantly Christian. It is primarily a ethnic and land grab issue, but then there are religious undertones. There is a religious implication as well. They have destroyed hundreds of churches, places of worship, in Imphal. Imphal used to house a lot of Kuki-Zomi people living together with the Meitei in the city of Imphal, the state capital. But now there is not a single member of the Kuki-Zomi community living there anymore, because if they do go there, they will be killed. It's as simple as that. We cannot go back there. There were hundreds of churches in Imphal and they were all burned. Niang can elaborate more on this angle, but one of the things that I can say is that Arambai Tenggol and the Meitei Leepun they don't want the religious conversion of some Meiteis as well. Some Meiteis convert to Christianity and they don't want that to happen either. So that's another angle to that. Niang Hangzo: Yeah. When I started this, I said that the first thing they did when they came to my colony was they went and burnt the church. And I said that was unprecedented because they've never, we've never, we've lived together, but nobody has burned or destroyed or vandalized or desecrated places of worship. So this is what tells me that there are outside actors that are looking at what divisions we have and that's banking on it. So the religious element is absolutely new. And just to quote some figures, because I like figures, the Hindu population is 41.39%. And the Christian population in the projected census is 41. 29%. The official census is 2011. India hasn't had any census since then. It's been postponed. So the last official census, I think it was like 37 point something for Christians and, a little higher, maybe over 43 or 45 for the Hindus. So you see, there's been a demographic shift in religion. That means in between many Meitei have become Christians. So now we are almost neck to neck, right? There are over 357 churches burnt altogether. Out of that, 170 belong to Meitei. That took me back. I was shocked that there were so many Meitei Christian churches. So one of the things that made everything different was first, we have this shift in demographics, in religious demographic, right? They're 53 percent of the population, but their Hindus is 41. 39 percent and Christians 41. 29 percent. Two organization, Arambai Tenggol and Meitei Leepun, openly said in one of the interviews that we don't like our people becoming Christians. So that's one reason. And I have to say that this religious angle I really feel is from outside. The push to cause this division between the two religion because it's unprecedented. And also, we know that the ruling party, the center, for example, they're strong Hindu nationalist. So there is that. The lust for land that the Meiteis have for tribal land, uh, I think they took that and used it to divide and also added this religious divide; in this ethnic cleansing. Like Sonny said, we've been ethnically cleansed from the valley and the same thing for the Meiteis. We retaliated too. When they started burning, we also burnt the houses in our area. So there are also no Meiteis in the Kuki-Zomi area. The ethnic cleansing is over. What is happening today the genocide of the Kuki-Zomi. We stay in our areas, but they keep coming to the peripheral villages, the area that borders Meiteis and Kuki-Zomis. Those villages are now empty of women and children. And our men, our young men have put their lives on hold, their education on hold, and they have taken up the defense of the villages, of our land, and our people. There's nothing going on in terms of education, even for young children, because there are over 104 relief camps in the Lamka Churachandpur area. The schools are being used as camps. And the same thing is going on in the Kuki-Zomi area in Kangpokpi. They attack us with the state forces and the two organizations, the militants so young men are fighting to save us. To protect us. Our children are not getting education. Our students, the young people who are studying in medical colleges at Inphal, or there's one medical college in Lamka, even those schools those universities and colleges are closed. Meanwhile, in the valley, everything is going on a full swing. The students are back, they're taking exams, etc. The government has not made any provision for the Kuki-Zomi students. If this continues, they will lose an entire year of studies. Sonny Gangte: And to add to that there were a handful of Meitei students studying in the one medical university in Lamka. And they are Meiteis, so they left the town of Lamka as well, right? But the government of Manipur immediately swung into action. And made provisions for these Meitei students to be able to continue their studies in a different university outside the state or within the state. This is clear evidence that the government is simply favoring one group over the other. Niang Hangzo: Yes. So they made sure that their students continue their studies. But our students; our smart young people, are sitting in limbo. They have nothing. Miko Lee: Thank you so much to both of you for sharing this. This is, it's really hard to hear. We, as you know, are dealing with the rise of fascism and the othering of peoples in the United States and all across the world. I'm, I'm seeing it in the press a little bit, like every once in a while, but it's really hidden and kind of hard to find. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how people are communicating with each other . How are you hearing stories about What's really going down as opposed to just the news, the little bits I'm picking up from the guardian or this place or from a newsletter from somebody. Sonny Gangte: Yes. The mainstream media in India refuses to cover this story. And that's one of the reasons why global media does not automatically pick it up. How do we get our information? There are a number of online media outlets in India, and a bunch of YouTube channels who are vocal about this issue. There are very few honest journalists left in India, because as you well know, India is trending towards fascism as well. Freedom of speech is being suppressed and journalists are being targeted in India. it's a tough situation out there for everyone. To touch upon how this issue became an international or a national issue. On May 4th, two Kuki Zomi women were paraded naked, and subsequently gang r*ped by a large mob of Meitei people. The video incident happened on May 4th, but issue came out because the video got leaked to the Internet. There was an Internet ban in Manipur at that time, and then 77 days later the video surfaced online, and it shook India. It went viral in India and it shook the psyche of the people of India. The Prime Minister of India, Narendra Modi, had up until now, refused to speak on this issue. People were dying. 120 plus people had died at that time and 50, 000 people displaced. And the Prime Minister of the largest, oldest democracy in the world, well, Modi likes to say, India is the mother of democracy. He came to the U. S. floor of Congress, and proclaimed that India is the mother of democracy, and here, while that was happening, while he was speaking, all of this was happening back home. He is the democratically elected leader, and he refuses to acknowledge the problem up until the video of these two women being paraded naked came online. And at that time the prime minister was under pressure, so he spoke briefly, he spoke for 36 seconds, and he said, Violence against women is bad, and he condemned that issue as an isolated incident, and that was it. He went back. He didn't address the killings, ethnic violence, and most importantly, he did not call for peace. Niang Hangzo: And I think that was one of the saddest thing for both for the Kuki-Zomi and the Meiteis because a lot of people are suffering. Enough is enough. We want this to end. So for the prime minister of the country to treat that as an isolated incident not related to the ethnic cleansing that's going on and the genocide that's in progress. That is absolutely shocking and extremely disappointing. Manipur as I mentioned, is a small state, we are barely 3 million people or maybe 3.5 if we look at projected population, India has a strong army. 60,000 strong. They're there, but they're not enabled to douse this fire. So the fire that was set, literally and figuratively from May 3rd is still burning 91 days later. And because of the moratorium on news, the viral video of the gang r*pe of those two Kukis, of our sisters, had not come out, we would not be talking about here because nobody paid attention. We shouldn't have to see something like that to act. It is a humanitarian crisis. And for a people that is so small in number they can easily wipe us out and the world would not know because most people don't know we exist. And so it's very important for us to tell the world that we exist. It doesn't matter if we're one, two, 500k or a million. We exist and we matter. And they're doing all this just to get tribal lands because our lands are rich in mineral. And when I think of that, I know that there are powers outside of the state involved, because there's nobody in Manipur who can mine or do anything. You need industry, you need infrastructure, you need lots of money. If you follow the money, it'll trace you to something outside. And I believe that at the end, let's say if the Meiteis managed to annihilate us, which we don't think will happen. But if they did, I can tell you for sure that they'll never get benefits or they'll never get equity from whatever industry will come out of our land. And for tribals, our land, we have a strong affinity for our land. We are mostly laid back most of the time, but if you come for our land, it doesn't matter. Even if there's one last man standing or one last woman standing. We will fight. Our people back home will fight to death. We will not give an inch. Cheryl Truong: Thank you so much, Niang, for all of your courage and insight. For those just tuning in, we are here with Niang Hangzo and Sunny Gangte from the North American Manipur Tribal Association, NAMTA, and we're peeling through the many layers of the Meitei violence against the Kuki in Manipur. There are land grabs, profit motives, ethno religious tensions, in action by the Manipur state government that all perpetuate this atrocious humanitarian violation against the Kuki people. We'll be right back with more on what's going down in Manipur after this music break. We're going to be listening to a track by the Khamsa Project. Khamsa, the Arabic word for five, is a multimedia art project, showcasing black, Muslim, immigrant, and refugee visual artists and musicians traversing the five stages of grief. They've launched art exhibits, music performances, dance shows, community events, podcasts, but this track in particular, Is from their self-titled hip hop album. Khamsa: the album. This is “something” by one of their collaborative artists Spote Breeze. Welcome back. You are tuned in to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 K PFB in Berkeley and online@kpfa.org. That was something called “Something” by Spote Breeze from the Khamsa Project. We are back with Niang Hangzo and Sonny Gangte, members of the Kuki tribe and NAMTA, learning more about the genocide waged against the Kuki people and what we can do to help. Once again, that was “Something” by Spote Breeze from the Khamsa Project.. Sonny Gangte: There have been many instances of police brutality in Manipur, because obviously the police are in cahoots with the state government. There was a youth called Hanglalmuan Vaiphei 21 year old college student in Churachandpur. He shared a Facebook post criticizing the chief minister. They're insane. The post he did wasn't an original post. He reshared it, and it basically was accusing the chief minister of being hand in glove with the poppy planters or drug dealers. Two days later, the police came knocking at his door and they arrested him and then transported him to Imphal to be booked and processed. The official story is that a mob came and snatched the police convoy and waylaid the police convoy and this young man was lynched to death. So he died. And that is the official story of the police. I don't know. Niang Hangzo: Yeah, he died because of he forwarded a Facebook post. He died because he forwarded a Facebook post Sonny Gangte: And the police were so quick to act within two days. They acted on this one, but it took them so many days, months to act on so many other police reports, especially of those two women who were paraded naked. Niang Hangzo: So I want to make a correction there. It's been almost three months. They've not acted on anything. The only thing they acted on was the two women who were paraded naked, but they've not acted on any other. And they acted on that because the prime minister spoke on it, his outrage, but them? Lots of FIR. There's a young, uh, I mentioned immolation. This is a horrifying story. I don't even want to tell it. He's 70 years old. He was caught, he was in a camp with his family and there was, cross firing between the two groups and they were in the middle in the army camp. He got ricochet or something shot went and hit his head. He was taken in the ambulance with his mother who was Meitei– he was Kuki. The mother had married a Kuki man so they decided to send him to Imphal because that's a closest and the best facility advanced facility hospital. He was in an ambulance with his mother, and another Meitei woman who was in the Kuki neighborhood. They said they may be married to a Kuki but it should be safe. And so they went. They were on the way to the hospital and they got waylaid by a mob of this Meira Paibis, those so called women vigilante, and they were burnt alive. There are many stories, real horror stories in this war that we don't want to talk about it, but it's all there. The way they've treated the Kuki-Zomi, the propaganda has succeeded. They don't see us human beings. And even when I talk about it, this is just one of the things, but a seven year old boy? Where's the humanity? If there were militants that did it, I could at least grasp that, as horrifying as it is. But to know that it's done by the Meitei women, mothers, sisters, wives. Who prosper, possibly have grandchildren like at that age, or even children. That is the horror of this war the world doesn't grasp. And then, to make it worse, their young people started putting on Facebook, and their Twitter, and so on that the seven year old boy was harassing them. That he was burning houses. There are horrible stories like this, there's beheading, there's a 77 year old lady praying in a church, Kuki-Zomi praying in a church. She was shot, and then they said she was a sniper. The two women who were paraded and gang r*ped, they said yes, because they were snipers. So not only did they kill or, or debase and dehumanize people. They try to destroy the character as well and brand them as snipers or something. I mean, and they're so outrageous. A seven year old boy harassing them? A seven year old minority boy harassing them? Let's not forget, this war waged by the 53% against the 16%. The 53% have enjoyed 98% of the budget of the state for over 70 years. They have everything today. If somebody has to fly out to Delhi, they cannot go and access the airport. If somebody has a heart attack, they cannot go to Imphal. They will just die there, or they have to go by road. If there's anything critical medically, they have to be airlifted. The biggest need now is medical, medicine, any sort of medical help, more doctors. Remember to access our areas, they have to come through Mizoram or through Nagaland. They cannot fly in into Imphal. If they're coming by road, to our area, maybe they'll be stopped because this vigilante women have stopped everybody including armies. We used to revere them because they were the ones who fought for the women of Manipur originally but they've turned completely. They've turned completely and they are now the aggressors. They're hunting. There are videos of women hunting. When my family escaped, I told you they came face to face with the mob. And my 11 year old grand niece said that the women were worse. The men said, protect this family. We know this woman. She's Meitei, she's a grandmother. We know her. They call her Ibo. The women said, why should we let them go? They raped and kill our people. But. Nobody was raped or killed in Churachandpur on May 3rd. There was disinformation spread to rile up all the people in Imphal, so they would chase us out of our house, they would kill us, and even the gang r*pe. They clearly said that it's in retaliation of a fake story. The harm that misinformation has caused. The price we had to pay for misinformation is unimaginable. We are a small group of people, and if we are annihilated, the world won't even miss us because most of the world don't know we exist. So please. Spread the word. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for both sharing on that. I'm sitting with your words, Niang, and kind of taking them in, absorbing them. And Sonny, I'm thinking about how important video was, because they did capture that horrific gang r*pe on camera. And same thing that happens here with African American people that have been killed by the police. It's when we catch the video of it that it tends to have that impact. The more people have exposure to it. I'm sitting with the fact that video then made it on the internet, and then I read about it in Al Jazeera, July 20th. This is like the time between May and July 20th that it took for it to even hit any kind of national news partially is because one there was a video there that people are seeing it, but also the story is still hidden, even with that .The story of the deeper roots of what's going on and this whole attempt at annihilating a people's for profit is kind of going under the radar. How can people in our audience that are listening, get involved in your work so that we can help to build the world that we want to see as opposed to the world we're living in? Sonny Gangte: So, NAMTA, the North American Manipur Tribals Association, is an organization as old as this crisis itself. It was formed as a response to this persecution of our people. And even today, the crisis is ongoing. And the government, any aid going to Manipur right now is not reaching the Kuki-Zomi people. It might reach Imphal. I don't know. The people in Kangpokpi and Lamka are in dire need of humanitarian aid. There are hospitals there, small hospitals. Primary health care centers, and they don't have enough supplies, and we have received a pleas from their people asking for IV fluids and gloves and bare minimum medical necessities, and it's going to turn into a larger public health crisis. It already is. One of the things that we can use is to spread the word. First of all, we need the world to know that horrific atrocities are being committed in the so called largest democracy. We also welcome any Donations if anyone would like to support our cause when you try and send humanitarian aid. Niang Hangzo: Yeah, yeah. The thing is, because of the inaction and silence of the central government, we can say that they are complicit, right? Silence is complicit because they could have stopped this. They allowed this to happen. So when we ask about aid, for example, if the U. S. aid has to go, it has to go through the center government and they will refuse it. If you remember, Eric Garcetti said, if you ask us, we will help. He said that, the US ambassador. He was told that this is an internal matter, but really, but it is not. We're not looking at the political part of it. If you look at the human side of it, it is a humanitarian matter.. Our people are not getting anything from the central government because for the central government will send it to the state government. This is state sponsored pogrom.. So they're not going to send anything to our people. So even asking for international aid. They need permission of the central government, so they'll not receive it. But we still want people to talk because one of the things we want to do now and what I want the listeners to do is to talk about this, to read about this, go to our site, listen to the personal stories, not political. We have our personal stories there, read about it and talk about it, tweet, put it out in social media. If everyone talks about Manipur and the Genocide of the Kuki-Zomi. We want it so loud, so loud in the digital media that Delhi can hear it. Because I think public opinion can sway government. I think that is very important. I want engagement from listeners to start tweeting about this, to start reading about it and share it on their social media so it gets amplified. That's one ask. The second ask is that I want you all to write to your senators, to write to your representatives. The European Union brought this Manipur issue and the persecution of Christians on 12th July, and on the next day they passed a resolution condemning the failures of the Modi government. This is the EU, they've done it. And Fiona Bruce, who is a Special Envoy of Religious Freedom for the UK Prime Minister, she brought it in Parliament. U. S. is a bastion of freedom, the land of the free. everybody looks up to the United States. As someone who would protect human rights, not U.N. But United States is synonymous with being the big brother, the father that take care of the weak. And yet nobody has spoken. So we want our congressman to bring this to motion. I know there are on a break right now, but we this is a time to hit them with it. We want the U. S. representatives to bring the Manipur issue on the floor and discuss it and maybe censor the government. And of course, our president went as far as saying that we need to sanction. And I know that that will be hard because when Modi came, they signed billion dollars worth of business and there's economic reasons, but that would be also one of the aspirational goals, but let's start with raising awareness. Spreading the news to everybody, to your friends, talk to people about it. Like I said, let it ring so loud that Delhi can hear it. Number one, number two, I'm repeating, because it's important, write to your congressmen, write to your senators about this, and tell them to bring this issue up. Please look at NAMTA's Facebook page. We also have a YouTube channel. We also have Instagram, and we will announce those and please join us. Miko Lee: . . We will add links to those in the show notes of APEX Express so people can have access and find out more about the amazing work. Thank you. You are a few but mighty that are living here carrying the banner for a lot of people in Manipur and all around the world. And just know that there's so many of us that are here supporting you and believing in you and supporting the fight for dignity and power for your people. thank you so much for all the work that you're doing. We're going to encourage everybody to check out the NAMTA website. to find out more about what's happening in Manipur and how you all in our community, all of our listeners can make a difference, can make your voices be heard so that these atrocities will not continue to happen. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Cheryl Truong: And that's the end of our show. Please check our website, kpfa.org to find out more about what's going on in Manipur, the work that NAMTA has been doing, and the work that ASATA is doing. We'd like to thank all of our listeners out there. Keep dreaming folks. A better world is possible. Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong Tonight's show was produced by Miko Lee and me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening! The post APEX Express – 8.3.23 – Manipur's Humanitarian Crisis appeared first on KPFA.

This week, Gary and Shekar are joined by Raz Golan co-founder of Shopic, a company that has transformed the shopping experience to another level. Shopic seamlessly integrates online stores with physical retail stores, enabling businesses to manage inventory, sales, and customer interactions in one unified system. It offers a streamlined shopping experience for both online and in-store customers, fostering efficient and effective retail operations. Shopic has developed an artificial intelligence based device called Smart Cart that attaches to a shopping cart. With cutting edge technology can detect when shoppers remove and add items to their cart acting as a self checkout. Raz discusses his background and the brainstorm that led to the creation of Smart Carts. Gary, Shekar, and Raz talk about the inspiration behind Shopic, the process of onboarding a retailer, and much more.

On this episode of The Retail Perch, Gary and Shekar welcome Max Koziolek who has come a long way from politics to making a marketing platform. Max Koziolek is the co-founder of Spectrm, a conversational marketing platform that powers chatbots for a wide range of companies. Max shares his run in a national election in Germany, his interest in journalism and how that transformed into his current focus of helping marketing teams build trust, and provide success to brands. The three discuss marketing, the rise of marketing on WhatsApp, and much more!

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The Supreme Court's ruling earlier this week has struck down on affirmative action in college admissions. What does this mean? What can we do? Where do we go from here? All of these questions will be answered in this week's episode of AACRE Thursday at APEX Express. Miko Lee and Cheryl Truong are joined by affirmative action experts, Vincent Pan, Co-Executive Director of Chinese for Affirmative Action (CAA) and Sally Chen, Harvard alum and CAA's Education Equity Policy Manager for a discussion on SCOTUS's repeal of race-conscious admission policies. Make sure to tune in! CAA and APEX Express are proud to be a part of the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality (AACRE) network. Petition to Universities in support of Affirmative Action Affirmative Action Resources   Let's Talk Affirmative Action show Transcripts Miko Lee: Good evening, you are on APEX Express. This is Miko Lee and Cheryl Truong. Tonight is an AACRE night, APEX Express is proud to be part of the AACRE Network, which is Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. Cheryl Truong: Tonight, we're talking about the Supreme court's ruling against affirmative action in the repeal of race conscious admission policies just earlier this week week. Joining us today from Chinese for Affirmative Action are co-executive director Vincent Pan and education equity policy manager Sally Chen Miko Lee: Sally and Vin, thank you so much for joining us tonight. Sally, I know that you have had a personal connection to affirmative action. Can you tell us a little bit about your personal connection? And I know you wrote an article that was amazing in the LA Times. Tell us about your experience. Sally Chen: Absolutely. I was born and raised in San Francisco. The daughter of Chinese immigrants who are working class worked in restaurant and service industries all of their time in the United States. And from a young age, I was both a translator and advocate for my parents, whether that was letters from our landlord in the mail, dealing with insurance, calling the bank, and. All of these experiences really shaped my motivations, my aspirations, and ultimately the content of what I wrote about in my college application at the time. I talked really candidly about my background and ultimately matriculated to Harvard in 2015. As a part of my experiences as an organizer, a student organizer on campus involved with various racial justice efforts, including advocating for ethnic studies and for supporting junior faculty of color on campus I came to be involved with student for fair admission versus Harvard in my junior year of college. I ultimately was one of eight students and alumni that testified in support of race conscious policies such as affirmative action for two reasons. One, for how I saw the benefits of race conscious policies reflected in my own admissions experience. I had gotten to look at my admissions file and I saw how much of the reality that I would not have been able to get across all of who I am with my skills, strengths, perspectives, without talking about race and ethnicity, without talking about my background, my upbringing, and second, because of how I saw racial diversity on campus, playing out in really meaningful ways for cross-racial school coalition building or our joint advocacy. And I really think it's important. It's important to highlight that in the course of this case. Students for Fair Admissions, Ed Blum's organization, never brought forward a single student in any of his proceedings to testify, to even show proof that they had been harmed by race conscious policy, and as one of the only eight students who did get to weigh in on this case, on the public record. We all showed really direct support and answered the question that I was disappointed to see that the Supreme Court justices did not answer, did not hear in answering why these policies are important, why racial diversity is important, why racism is still a reality in the society. Miko Lee: Thanks for that Sally. Vin, as the co-executive director of Chinese for Affirmative Action can you talk about the impact of this ruling across the work that you're doing with CAA? Vincent Pan: Sure. I'm happy to do so. Miko and, and thanks for having us on the program. You know, I think that the ruling is devastating on so many different levels. I think most notably it affects college admissions and who will have access to higher education. It's already been a very difficult struggle for students of color, for students from backgrounds that, you know, may have been less traditionally college going. And this will make it even harder for students to present the entirety of themselves for consideration at the most select private institutions of, of higher education. But on another level, I think that impact is, is even worse. Because when you really read and understand the ruling that the supreme court conservative, super majority made and understand, you know, how those individuals got onto the court we can also recognize that this ruling is about going backwards on the whole issue of race and racial justice. Because it is trying to convince America again that the way to deal with racism is to either pretend that it doesn't exist by sticking our head in the sand, or by saying that racism is okay and that we can live with these deep inequities that affect so many of us. So I think for CAA and, and for the communities that we work with and we represent it's a time to really deepen our resolve and our commitment because the work for racial justice is not going to be easier by this decision, but in many ways becomes even more important. Cheryl Truong: In a similar vein, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson said that deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. And so, Sally, I was wondering just because you were a first-generation student at an Ivy league school. I was wondering what your experience was like just navigating these educational systems Sally Chen: Absolutely. As I mentioned, my parents were working class immigrants. They had not attended college themselves. And in my K 12 educational journey, a lot of. What I was able to navigate was, for the most part on my own. My parents were not able to help me with my homework starting in around third or fourth grade, and I nonetheless, I still felt that a lot of the values and the lessons that they taught me were of value. That people who do not often have their voices uplifted should nonetheless be heard. That people who are directly impacted by issues are experts on issues. And when I was writing my college application, my personal statement, I talked a lot about wanting to do work that would be relevant to the communities that I'm from to Asian American communities of the Bay Area that I called home. And I remember when I wrote my personal statement, I actually had advice from my counselor at the time who himself was Asian American. And he said something along the lines of, don't tell an Asian immigrant story. It's not compelling, it's not of interest. And. I remember at the time as a young person feeling utterly crushed honestly, by that advice. And in the end, I didn't listen. One because I had already written my statement and I was not going to rewrite it, being a tired student myself, but second, because I really felt that I wanted to be going to an institution that would. Value the perspectives that I would bring that would see the value of my presence there. And are still able to and are empowered to. Speak directly about the issues that affect our lives, about what shapes our perspectives, and that no student should feel they have to hide who they are or what their needs are, or what their goals and ambitions are either. Miko Lee: Well, number one, thank you young Sally for standing up for yourself, not listening to that counselor and just saying, I'm gonna speak my truth. Yay. Thank you for doing that. This brings up this question that I'm hearing Edward Blum and all these conservatives bring up around a holistic idea of admissions. And having colorblindness. Can both of you talk a little bit about that holistic admissions process? Because Sally, like you're saying, part of your upbringing is being an immigrant, you know, having to translate for your parents. So now with this new ruling, this whole idea of colorblindness, how do you separate those two out? Vin, can you speak a little bit about that process and what does that mean and, how are they gonna go forward? How are people supposed to go forward with this idea of a holistic admission process, but also being colorblind? Doesn't one contradict the other? Vincent Pan: They, they absolutely contradict. And so what makes sense is to have a holistic process that takes into account, not just academic performance, but also extracurriculars, also adversity, also race and ethnicity, gender, immigration status. Like all the things that make us human beings. , as a result of being these full human beings, being able to participate in learning processes with beloved students and classmates and to share those perspectives. And so, why this court ruling makes no sense is because it somehow suggests that we consider everything else but race when we know that race is actually one of the driving and determinant factors of how we experience life. Maybe there's a time or a place where that wouldn't be the case but in the United States, it has probably been one of the most important factors in terms of how people experience life. Not only historically but today. So in some ways colorblindness is just a mask. There's, there's really no such thing as colorblindness in the way, you know, America navigates either it's public policy or it's social and cultural life. Colorblindness becomes a way of, of just saying, we're going to make invisible people of color. And, you know, Blum and, and his allies and the super majority of conservatives on the court, that's really what this has always been about. And it really has been an effort to turn back much of the progress that began with the civil rights era and the in the sixties, to try and reckon with race by more directly confronting and addressing it. Sally Chen: Right. And. Totally agree with everything Vin is bringing up here, and I can speak to a little bit just how holistic admissions works. Naming first that holistic admissions at generally elite institutions include often hundreds of factors including gender, sexuality, religion, geographic diversity. Socioeconomic status includes a large range of factors, and this calling out specifically of race as being problematic is just as ridiculous as Vin has discussed. And if anything, the decision from the court really throws a confusing challenge to colleges and universities around how they can navigate these limitations and move forward. We really see the role of advocates in this space to both show support for and call for accountability from colleges and universities to still hold racial diversity and equity as part of their goal, part of their mission, and that. They need to invest more and double down on the alternatives available to them, and even to implement policy changes that were available to them even before this decision that can open access for more students in particular students of color that I'll plug here on CAA's website. We have an open letter to colleges and universities outlining some of these changes, including eliminating legacy preferences, removing racially biased SAT or ACT tests as evaluation for admissions or merit scholarships, and really looking at racial diversity, after admissions to continue tracking data around who is being admitted and encourage diverse student matriculation to support financial aid or mentorship programs for first generation college students, and to really double down and invest more in these practices that we know work and that are more important than ever. Cheryl Truong: Thanks Sally, for that plug. If folks are interested in signing that open petition that Sally mentioned, we will have it linked in our show notes. We're going to take a quick music break and listen to a Burmese track. “Thai Rhymes with Sound” by Ma Ei Moe. This is a recording by Columbia records from back in around 1932 and features the saung-gauk, an arched harp that is considered the national instrument of Burma. And a little fun fact for all of our listeners out there, the saung gauk is said to be the only surviving harp in Asia. Cheryl Truong: you are tuned in to apex express at 94.1 KPFA and 89.3, KPF B in Berkeley and online@kpfa.org. That song you just heard was a Burmese song called “Thai Rhymes with Sound” by Ma Ei Moe. The singer is singing about the colors and smells of each flower. How in the summer, after the long monsoon season flowers are in bloom. Once again that was “Thai Rhymes with Sound” by Ma Ei Moe. Now, back to the show. Where we will be diving in a little bit on asian american history and Asian Americans, long history of supporting affirmative action. Cheryl Truong: Vin, you mentioned something really important earlier, and I just it's so important that I want to say it again. Asian Americans have had a long history of supporting affirmative action since the 1960s. And yet Blum is perpetuating this harmful narrative about affirmative action attacking, targeting Asians. And weaponizing this fear against other communities of color. I wonder if you can talk a little bit more about this. Vincent Pan: Yeah. Well, you know, the, the narrative it is very problematic. It's very dangerous. And for me personally, I, I find it sickening. ,the reality is that almost all the gains made by Asian Americans, in this country have been in part, due to leadership by African Americans. Uh, in the 1960s on civil rights. It really opened the door for, immigration to be expanded from Asian countries. It opened the door in education and employment. In public contracting, media representation, political representation. So, this idea that somehow Asian Americans could ever afford to be against affirmative action because of some false belief that select school admissions at the smallest, most elite institutions are working against them and to blame that on other people of color, you know, it's, it's quite frankly, it's horrifying and it's also not true. Right. We know through the research and through the evidence that there is discrimination, of course against Asian Americans in all sectors of society, but it very, very rarely, and I would say almost never has anything to do with how affirmative action is practiced. It has to do with anti-Asian racism. So again, the cause of fighting anti-Asian discrimination can be solved with things at college admissions, like better training, more oversight, really making sure that there are not biases that creep into the process. But to suggest somehow that one of the more powerful tools for rectifying systemic discrimination is a cause, it's not just cynical. it's also, I think, reflective of just the lengths that the far right is willing to go. And to really use basic tenants of the Constitution and equal protection and flip them upside down in their head. I'm very, very discouraged when I see Asian Americans who put a fall for these lies. It behooves the rest of us. Asian Americans had to really speak out, you know, speak out in solidarity with other communities that are marginalized and oppressed to speak out in support of, of race conscious programs, whether that's in college, admissions or in the workplace, or in culture and, and media. I think Asian Americans, you know, we, we have our work cut out for us, both in terms of rooting out anti-blackness in our, our own communities in terms of really getting educated on how public policy and complicated areas work. But also, to take this as a challenge to do even more to lead the way to push for policies that makes society work for everyone. Miko Lee: Vin can you back up and speak a little bit more about Asian-Americans history of support for affirmative action? I know there was a 2020 Asian-American voter survey that said that 70% of Asian-Americans actually support affirmative action, even though the narrative has been shifted a lot. But can you go back in time with us a little bit about how AAs have had this history of supporting affirmative action? Vincent Pan: Sure, I'm happy to, you know, so Chinese affirmative action was found in 1969 and it's important to know at the time, affirmative action did not have the same sort of political controversy around it because it was understand as a broad approach and a deal. Simply stated that we have to be proactive to try and fix these problems that we've inherited, that lead to unfairness and discrimination towards women, towards people of color, towards folks who are trans and queer. It's not a hard idea to grasp that you can't take a society that is so unfair and just automatically expect that by doing nothing, things will get better. No. And so for more than five decades in, in all areas of society, CAA and other Asian American groups with other Asian Americans have fought for affirmative action. And they continue to fight for affirmative action. But I think, in some ways they've come to misunderstand just how much affirmative action has benefited us. And so when, you know, I have community members tell me how much they like, say Everything everywhere, All At Once, pushing for Asian Americans, the media is affirmative action. When folks say that they really want to see more Asian American judges or senators or maybe someday the president. That's a form of affirmative action. So it's not surprising that many of the polls do show when people understand what affirmative action is, Asian Americans overwhelmingly support. Now I think what we're seeing though, in terms of this very loud vocal minority is frustration around select school admissions. Or to be quite blunt, maybe their kid didn't get in. Right. That frustration is, is, is driven by a whole number of things, including unhealthy of what higher education in the United States could be, um, but other things as well. There's a lot of work that needs to be done to explain in the future know, like the constructive ways to push against anti-Asian discrimination and to create productive outlets for some of these frustrations. For example, just expanding the pie and making sure that there are more good school and college slots for everyone as opposed to like buying into this idea that a good education or somehow needs to be this very, very scarce commodity by design. Right. But, you know, I think that it's also very true that Asian Americans, and it's really primarily East Asians and South Asians, who I think have got caught up in this. That's also part of this challenge of a growing right wing within our communities that also needs to be confronted. Miko Lee: Thank you for that. , you know, this whole idea around the colorblindness and holistic admissions and really talking about how many students can be allowed into these elite schools. One of the things that the justices didn't address was the bulk of folks that get into these school sites, which is, you know, 43% of Harvard admissions fall into the legacy, donors ,and children's of staff. Those are the folks that are getting this special admissions. Sally, can you talk a little bit about that? Who is getting access into these select schools and why that aspect hasn't been addressed? Sally Chen: Absolutely. Part of what VIN had talked about was the idea that we already knew, which was that college admissions as it stands is not fair, and that there's so much work to be done to make sure that there is meaningful, real access for all students. And one of the first points on our open letter to colleges and universities in calling on them to reassess all the different levers that they have to address inequity in college admissions in this moment is to reexamine exactly what you named this Athletic Legacy Dean's List, children of. Faculty, A L B C category under which, as you named at Elite institutions, this factor is often the first in consideration and even when it is not explicitly named the numbers that you see around students in these types of categories. Applying under early admissions, applying under early action. As a kind of backdoor for them to be able to ensure their admissions in ways that disadvantage certainly first generation students, immigrant students, students of color that are not benefited by these policies. We see that this is one of the key areas where we do need to address what some people have said is, Affirmative action for wealthy white students and that while this still stands, there is a very clear contradiction in how college admissions is allowed to continue to operate. Miko Lee: Thanks for that, Sally. We know already that nine states have passed anti-affirmative action laws and California sadly did this with Prop 209. Vin, can you talk a little bit about the impact that that has had on the uc system in California and how that can be utilized as a model for how we deal with affirmative action in other states and nationally in the future. Vincent Pan: Sure, sure. It's a really important question because there's aspects of Prop 209, the ban on affirmative action in California that overlaps with the ruling that occurred at the Supreme Court. Prop 209 really limited race and gender conscious programs in California's public institutions that deal with education, employment, and contracting, but it did not govern any of the private institutions. And so, you know, the, the private colleges and, and universities in California were not affected by Prop 209. And I should also say that businesses in the private sector were not affected by it either. Supreme Court ruling affects institutions of higher education that are both public and private. And private because most private colleges have received at least some federal funding. And so they will be governed by this as, as well. What we saw in California was a real drop in access for students of color at the UCs. We saw a tremendous drop in the number of minority owned and women owned businesses who were able to obtain public contracts. We saw real slowdown in the diversity of the public sector workforce. And that includes teachers, includes civil servants, it includes firefighters. We also saw, and this is one thing we need to be careful about, sort of an overreaction too, where many government agencies who could still do a lot of different things just decided not to even try not to even ask the question. Through the support and leadership of advocates, it's taken time, but we've been able to get many of these institutions to do better. At some parts of UC, you do see a rebound in the number of students of color because folks have learned to be more assertive and to really understand that they have to do everything that the law will allow. And I think there's a lesson there for public colleges and universities. To what Sally was saying before it's on our petition. This ruling should not be an excuse for college presidents and universities to back down or to shy away from this, this critical question of how we achieve racial justice in society. It's a call to action for them to really make sure they're doing everything possible. And that includes getting rid of the SATs. It includes making their campuses more welcoming for students of color by having stronger ethnic studies programs. It includes really accelerating the need for a more diverse faculty. It also means thinking about how we can get at issues of the adversity that students of color face and being able to account for that in the application process. In California we are unfortunately, with Prop 209, we made it very, very hard for ourselves. To achieve the type of equitable society that we all want. But as hard as it's been, we've recognized that there are multiple tools, and affirmative action was a powerful one, but it was not the only one. We've got to get better at using all of the tools available to us and also developing new ones. Cheryl Truong: So I'm so glad we're actually talking about Prop 209 because it's a point in history where we've already repealed affirmative action and we have seen how it affects our communities. I think 40%, the enrollment of black and Latino communities dropped by 40% with the passing of Prop 209. This is going to change how a lot of young people imagine their futures because now we are being told that we cannot financially succeed or we won't have financial opportunities due to this example of systemic racism. How do you think this repeal of affirmative action is going to impact how families and communities think about our futures? And if you have any advice you'd like to share especially with high schoolers who are trying to navigate the college process in the wake of this repeal. Vincent Pan: Well, I'll, I'll go first and I would love to hear what you think Sally. I think a lot of it is still unclear, right? We know like the pathways are as a result of the ruling and by limiting affirmative action or really ending affirmative action in, in college admissions, it's gonna be much, much, much harder. But a lot of it will depend on what the colleges and universities decide to do. If they decide to take the easy way out and say we really can't prioritize diversity and inclusion anymore, then the numbers of students of color are going to drop dramatically. There's no question about that. But on the other hand, if the colleges and universities say, okay we've got to double down on our commitment to diversity because our schools can't function if they're only serving just one community, the white community or just one community, the rich community. If they really step up and understand that's not acceptable, then they will have to employ every single tool at their disposal with the absence of affirmative action. And they will have to also create new ones. I think if they do that, then perhaps there's more reason to be optimistic. what does that mean for, for students and families? I think they have to stay engaged and to really understand what's happening in, in this space. It's important as Sally has said before, for students to talk about adversity, to present themselves as who they are. and to also know that in many parts of society that there is still discrimination against all students of color and people of color. It'll depend on finding allies in particular universities or colleges and really understanding what they're trying to do in this moment. Are they looking at this as an excuse to go back to when universities were really just for rich white men ? Or are they going to really step up and meet the call that this ruling really demands of all of us. Cheryl Truong: We are deep in conversation with affirmative action specialists, Sally Chen and Vincent Pan from CAA. We're going to take a quick music break and listen to some music by Namgar, an international ethno music collective that fuses traditional Buryat and Mongolian music with pop, jazz, funk, ambient soundscapes, and art- pop. We'll be back in just a moment with more on the supreme court ruling after we listen to “part two” by Namgar. Cheryl Truong: Welcome back. You are tuned in to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB B in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org. That song you just heard was “part two” by Namgar, an incredible four- piece Buryat- Mongolian ensemble that is revitalizing and preserving the Buryat language and culture through music. Now, back to the show as we continue our conversation with Vincent pan and Sally Chen discussing their valuable insights regarding the Supreme court's recent ruling on affirmative action. Miko Lee: I wanna go back Vin, to something that you just said about getting faculty to look more like the students, and I'm wondering both of your response to actually also getting the Supreme Court to look more like our population , and actions that can be taken to actually change the Supreme Court. Vincent Pan: Well, the Supreme Court questions are as, as many of your listeners know, Supreme Court members are appointed for life and there are not that many of them. It becomes very important to make sure that we have people in the White House who make those appointments. Who I would say not only appoint people who look like America, but who actually represent a vision that works for all Americans. In a very small body like that you're gonna have your Clarence Thomas's who, you know, are African-American, but in, in my view, are not representing the interests of, of African-Americans at all. It speaks to the importance of being involved political process and voting and civic engagement throughout the country and being smart about it. I think for folks who say that elections don't matter, here's another example of just how much they do. I think that the representation in all aspects of government is also critical. And again, that's not just the folks who work at college and university say, but it's also in Congress it's also all of our elected officials, and I think that we are making progress in, in this way. But for Asian Americans, we again have to be very, very careful because you do see folks running who are Asian Americans on the far right. It's incumbent upon us not just to vote for someone who looks like us, but to be smart and, and to vote for people who represent the interest of all those who've been left behind, including our communities. Miko Lee: That's right. And I guess I'm asking about expansion of the Supreme Court and actually changing the very function of how it's operating. Sally Chen: I can uplift here specifically on Supreme Court reform. That is one of the areas in which many of our advocates and allies have been thinking about in and planning for, in pivoting in response to this recent slate of decisions that came out. I'll uplift here. Equal Justice Society, one of our , close partners, both in the Prop 16 campaign and ongoing that they have really dug into exploring and researching and educating people on the history of Supreme Court expansion at Pivotal moments in US history and other opportunities for reform and even intervention. Curtailing some of the Supreme Court's power and really calling on the other branches of our federal government to step up here, whether that is our Congress or the executive branch and highlighting equal justice society as well as an expert in that area. Vincent Pan: Yeah, it's a great point, Sally. You know, and I think it is something we all have to look more closely at because you see like ruling, after ruling, after ruling they are all right wing decisions that sort of overturn not only settled law but are really trying to take the country backwards, to a place where none of us want to go. So whether that's on reproductive rights, whether that's on racial justice issues, whether it's on, student loan, debt relief. This term in particular, right? Voting rights, Trans and queer rights. It's just like one after the other. So I do think it does make sense to look at ways to try and get the Supreme Court to do what it was meant to do. And at the same time are so many things for all of us work in the grassroots to, to engage in as, as well. And so when we talk about all these other tools at our disposal, we need to know that many of those occur at the local level. sometimes we have pretty good laws maybe passed at the, the state level, but they're not implemented at the city or township I think that there are always very, and this is one thing I'm really, you know, proud of that we do at CAA and proud of all the folks in AACRE, there's so many ways to push for social justice. And as despondent and, and frustrated and angry as many of us are about the Supreme Court latest rulings, one thing we cannot say is that there aren't things that we can do. And that's one thing in particular that I think for Asian Americans, we have to, you know, we have to step up our game on. Sally Chen: Thanks Vin. And just adding on that, a lot of CAA's work on the ground, whether that's in our civic engagement team or our Chinese digital engagement is engaging directly with students, families, community members, and the message that we want to send to students and their families is that our young people should follow their dream, should be able to celebrate their identities, and reach their full potential, strive for success in ways that are meaningful to them. They should feel able to be unapologetically themselves and at the end of the day know that, we, the broader community, are ultimately with them separately. I did, I was thinking a little bit about the legacy question. I just wanted to add one more piece, if that's okay. Which is that. Reform around the removal of consideration of legacy or significant donations in college admissions is not a new conversation. And in fact, we've seen universities like Amherst College only a few years ago, publicly announced that they would no longer consider legacy as a factor in admissions. And they saw a significant change in the demographics of their student bodies admitted .The number of first generation college students certainly increased and they did see racial diversity overall broaden and that this is not a new change and it's not one that is unprecedented either, and that we really have seen universities already at the forefront of taking action even before this decision came. Vincent Pan: Right. The other piece that I think has been lost in all this is there are more Asian Americans, uh, who attend City College of San Francisco than who are in all of the Ivy Leagues. So there's a real distortion of just how important the Ivy Leagues are in real terms for Asian Americans. Another good thing to know is that more than half of Asian Americans who are in any type of higher education or in community college, Right. So if we understand that the real damage of the Supreme Court ruling on the one hand is in the way, it's changing how this country wants to deal with the issues of race and racism. You know, we could also know that for Asian-Americans who are seeking college, that there also has to be an emphasis on where students are actually at, which is in the community colleges. Community colleges have historically been dramatically under invested in. We know that there need to be better pathways for folks to get from the community colleges into to four year degree programs. I think that the degree that we can at CAA we also wanna lift up the need for all of our communities, not just to always be focusing in on what the media feeds us, which is that we only care about the Ivy Leagues, but to focus in on what we also live and experience. That it is the community colleges, it's the CSUs. It's all these other nontraditional pathways to higher education that our community benefits from. ESL classes, vocational training. Now, all those need support as well. And those are also other ways to drive educational equity across and with other communities of color. Miko Lee: Well, Vincent Pan and Sally Chen, you've given us so many things to think about and so many actions that we can take from fighting for investments in more community colleges to paying attention to Asian American candidates to make sure that we're in values alignment to checking out this open petition that is on the CAA website, which we will put a link to. What else can people do to get involved so that they can actually take action around affirmative action? Sally Chen: Well, certainly our open petition is still available for signatures. We are hoping to, and are rapidly reaching a thousand signatures by the end of this week, but we are preparing to use that as the launching off point for a lot of engagement with colleges and universities, certainly advocates that have relationships to their alma maters, to their networks should engage as much as possible, show their support publicly for the investment in commitment to values of racial diversity and equity, especially at these institutions of higher education .And like Vin had mentioned, a lot of this implementation will , happen at the local and state level. Folks should pay attention to any attempts to broaden this decision beyond the scope of what it should be, of any kind of backing down from originally stated commitments to equity, diversity, inclusion, and to call that out where they see it. Vincent Pan: Yeah, obviously I second what Sally has, has said in terms of ways for folks to get involved, especially on the issue of, of colleges and universities and access and equity to those institutions. You know, I, I think more broadly for Asian Americans, it, it really can't be understated how dangerous a time we are in. And that what, the anti civil rights litigator Ed Blum, has done and the way that our community is now being portrayed that it becomes important. So, so important, even more important for Asian Americans to speak out. To speak out and, and declare themselves as an anti-racist, to declare themselves as a supportive of affirmative action, and to declare them themselves in solidarity with all people who have been oppressed.. It's the time to lift up our histories as activists, as people who have fought for civil rights and social justice. This ruling coupled with everything that we know is going on with the escalation of anti-Asian hate, with the uprising in China, just behooves our community to really to reflect and to, and to move forward and to act, as you said, Miko. And so I think that one of the great ways to support affirmative action in the broad sense is by getting involved with any of the key social justice issues that are currently needing our attention. Again, it's intersectional. And so whether it's voting rights, reproductive rights, trans and queer rights, civil rights, immigrant rights, there's just so much work that all advances this broader ideal that really reflect what affirmative action has always been about. This has to be a wake up call for Asian Americans. Most of us have fought for progress. Most of us know that our fate is intertwined with other communities of color, but there's also far too many who've been on the sidelines. And this should be a wake up call to engage on, on the side of those who have been fighting for justice and equity for all communities and not allowing themselves to be exploited by groups and people who clearly do not have our community's best interests at heart. Miko Lee: That was a great wrap up, VIN. Thank you. Is there anything else either of you would like to add? Vincent Pan: Yeah, I have one thing. There's, there was one part of the ruling that was also very instructive. Part of the conservative majority, the ruling said, well, the only institution of higher education and learning that can still maybe consider race are military academies. In effect saying that no, well, we want diversity in the schools that are preparing people to go and die in wars. Right? But it's not in the rest of of society. And so I thought that was like extremely telling, right? Because I think that these right-wing folks, they really don't believe in colorblind. They only want to use it as a way to mask white supremacy. But in instances where it won't uphold white supremacy, then they will toss it overboard, right? So they want race conscious admissions for military academies. They want race conscious admission for the military. I mean, you know, that tells us everything I think that we need to know about what's motivating them. I'll pause on that. The other thing that I think affirmative action as it was conceived and as it moved in the 1960s benefited white women, and white women have been perhaps the largest beneficiaries of affirmative action programs. And affirmative action programs have always included gender, right? To say that this has been just about affirmative action when it really is about how we understand race in America. Some parts of the community will still continue and say, oh, this is about whether or not the admissions process is fair. But it really is about trying to solve what's always been maybe the most difficult thing to solve in America. The question of race. And that there have not been uprise Of opposition against affirmative action programs that have helped white women. It is only because affirmative action has been a tool that's been able to increase racial diversity at some of these institutions that we've seen such a backlash against it. Miko Lee: Holy cow. I just have a whole nother series of questions about white women beneficiaries, but that's another show. Sally, do you have anything that you wanna add? Sally Chen: I'm good. Thank you both so much, Miko and Cheryl for this interview. Miko Lee: Thank you. Thanks to both of you. I actually additionally have more questions about what's behind this Ed Blum guy, like what's in it for him? I mean I'm kind of blown away. I know we're at time, but I do wanna have a further conversation about that too, because it's like, dude is the rebellion to his progressive parents. He was raised by Jewish progressive parents and he's every progressive's parents nightmare. I just like, what's in it for him? Is this just a money thing? Like what's that about? Vincent Pan: That's great question. Yeah, I don't know, but maybe there's a, a six hour version of this podcast that we could do time where we're just going all different directions. Cheryl Truong: check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about the fight for affirmative action and equal access to higher education. And to learn more about our wonderful guests, Sally Chen and Vincent pan. We think all of you listeners out there, keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong tonight's show was produced by me cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening. The post APEX Express – 7.6.23 Let's Talk Affirmative Action appeared first on KPFA.

"Your audience sees you.  I don't care if you're a performer, a producer, a kitten, or a vendor. They are watching you.  They determine who to patronize, who to be involved with, who to give their dollars to." Lakota Shekar holds court in Cleveland, OH.  Just coming off her visit to the Burlesque Hall of Fame Weekender, where she was part of the Miss Exotic World judging panel and part of the accessibility crew.  We talk about the apparent shock at the winners' circle by some folks, and how she feels about all that, plus how BHOF held space for disabled audience members and perforners. Conversation includes thoughts on production, judging, burly parents and children, cancer, reading the comments, drag, redlining, and that age-old "you're so brave" kudos.  (this conversation was recorded June 15, 2023) Instagram: @lakota_shekhar @blackwater_cabaret @disabiliteaseacademy https://www.facebook.com/lakota.shekhar.5 https://www.tiktok.com/@lakota_shekhar SUPPORT THE PODCAST: - patreon.com/weburlesque - venmo: @viktor-devonne - paypal: weburlesque@gmail.com - cashapp: $weburlesque All donations at $25 or above will get a signed 8x10 of Viktor Devonne, covered in flour. — WEBurlesque Podcast Network is the creation of Viktor Devonne. Episode 188 call hook by Faggedy Randy. Podcast artwork by Logan Laveau, WEBurlesque the Podcast cover art photography by Atticus Stevenson. Theme song, “On a 45” by This Way to the Egress, used with permission. Incidental music via pixabay.com under fair use. Visit weburlesquepodcast.com for notes on this and every episode. Follow @weburlesque and @viktordevonne on just about every platform, and support the podcast via patreon.com/weburlesque or via Venmo @Viktor-Devonne. Don't got the cash? Please follow, subscribe, and give 5 stars on every platform you can get your hands on. It really does help. All original material is owned by Viktor Devonne and White Elephant Burlesque Corporation; all other materials property of their respective copyright. No infringement, while likely, is intended.

In this week's episode, Shekar and Gary interview Justin Chen, co-founder of PickFu, a company that provides a self-service way to get in-depth consumer feedback be it for businesses, authors, game designers, and more. Their instant polling services allow you to get feedback on anything from logos to business ideas from your chosen target audience in minutes. Justin explains how this whole project began, how PickFu can be used in the retail industry, how the surveys work, and much more. 

Sukesh Shekar is the CEO & Founder at Altgage, the Google search of mortgages, bringing simply affordable mortgages to home buyers. . Sukesh believes in the American dream of homeownership. However, mortgages are more unaffordable than ever and most mortgage processes lack transparency. Altgage makes home buying more affordable with smart mortgages that build wealth over time.

The majority of the New York City Council members are new and are part of a class that is the most diverse and progressive in city history. Over the next year Brian Lehrer will get to know all 51 members. This week, Councilmember Shekar Krishnan talks about his priorities for District 25, which includes the neighborhoods of Elmhurst and Jackson Heights. On today's '51 Council Members in 52 Weeks,' District 25's @CMShekarK brought the 34th Ave Open Streets as part of his "show & tell" pic.twitter.com/5LAnjg4NdE — The Brian Lehrer Show and A Daily Politics Podcast (@BrianLehrer) July 15, 2022   Catch up with all the interviews here.