Podcasts about gharbi

The term “woke” might be modern, but woke movements have been going on throughout history. And while an “awokening” is meant to further equality among systemically marginalized groups, they often can exacerbate existing social inequalities. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociology and assistant professor of communication and journalism at Stony Brook University. His book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, examines how professionals in the so-called symbolic capitalism space like media, nonprofits, and education have gained elite status through woke culture, and in turn, benefit from some of the inequalities they are morally aligned against. Musa and Greg discuss the origins of woke movements throughout history including what factors in society can lead to “awokenings,” how symbolic capitalists have become the new elite, the role of cultural capital in today's world, and why the elimination of DEI programs and pushback against woke culture can sometimes accelerate a new “awokening.”  *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:Can we be committed to seeking social justice and elite status at the same time?12:52: It's our desire to be an elite that often ends up winning out and kind of transforming how we pursue these social justice goals, so that we mostly try to pursue them in ways that don't cost anything for us, risk anything for us, require us to change anything about our lifestyles and our aspirations, and the aspirations of our children, and all of that stuff. And so that mostly pushes us into pursuing these social justice goals in largely symbolic ways, on the one hand. And on the other hand, it often leads us to expropriate blame to other people, who often benefit far less from the system than we do, and exert a lot less influence over institutions and so on than we do.Has diversity become a status symbol instead of a value?46:01: Diversity is great as long as its fellow affluent, highly educated people. But God forbid, if they want to build affordable housing in your neighborhood, that's a hard no.On competition over status18:41: One of the things that's interesting about competitions over status and cultural capital and things like this is that status—one—it's actually more of a zero-sum competition.So, for wealth, it's possible for everyone in a society to have a decent amount of wealth or a high amount of wealth. But for status, that's not the case. A situation where everyone had a high amount of status—the same status—would be a situation where nobody had any status. Status is more zero-sum. You actually can't give more attention, more time, more deference, and whatever to one person without actually taking some from someone else, because our attention is finite, et cetera, et cetera. And so status is actually more of a zero-sum competition.Show Links:Recommended Resources:Pierre BourdieuWhy Has Critique Run out of Steam? From Matters of Fact to Matters of Concern by Bruno Latour Andrew AbbottSocial Gospel movement..Secular Surge: A New Fault Line in American PoliticsGuest Profile:Faculty Profile at Stony Brook UniversityProfessional WebsiteProfessional Profile on LinkedInHis Work:We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/political-science

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The […]

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented.

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/politics-and-polemics

Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce? Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi's provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi's central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work. Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's fan-favorite week at Casa de Remnant.Jonah Goldberg is joined by Thomas Chatterton Williams, staff writer at The Atlantic and fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, to discuss illiberalism on the right, dole out some sympathy for the most ardent defenders of wokeness, and dig into Thomas' upcoming book, Summer of Our Discontent: The Age of Certainty and the Demise of Discourse. Show Notes: —Thomas' piece in The Atlantic: “How the Woke Right Replaced the Woke Left” —Musa al-Gharbi on The Remnant —Jonah's “Critical Trump Theory” —Woke chili The Remnant is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch's offerings—including Jonah's G-File newsletter, regular livestreams, and other members-only content—click here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Semia Gharbi, Chairperson of Tunisia`s Association of Environmental Education for Future Generations, discusses the import of textiles to Tunisia and the related challenges faced by the country.

The word woke has gone from badge of pride to insult. Those who have embraced so-called wokeness say they are promoting social justice. But to sociologist and author Musa al-Gharbi, it's social justice for the comfortable.

Christian activist Jason Fileta and Biblical scholar Brian Doak talk about the state of Christianity in the United States in light of the Trump administration's emerging policies. How are Christians responding to the current political climate? What is it like to be a "DEI" professional in a Christian environment right now?Atlantic article: Is This What Cancel Culture Achieved?We Have Never Been Woke by Musa al-Gharbi.The February 14th Dear Colleague letter.More politics content with Jason:HOW Christians need to prepare for the new phase of American politicsDoes Trump Believe God actually SAVED him?If you enjoy listening to the George Fox Talks podcast and would like to watch, too, check out our channel on YouTube! We also have a web page that features all of our podcasts, a sign-up for our weekly email update, and publications from the George Fox University community.

Sociologist Musa al-Gharbi takes aim at people who talk about being "woke" to the suffering of others but actually benefit from and even perpetuate the inequality they condemn.

The rightward shift in public opinion that carried Donald Trump back into the White House is being widely interpreted as a backlash against the "Great Awokening" of the past decade -- a surge in radical progressive activism around social justice issues that featured a number of extreme and unpopular positions ("defund the police," "abolish ICE," support for Hamas after the October 7 attacks, etc.). In his new book We Have Never Been Woke, Stony Brook University sociologist and Niskanen Center senior fellow Musa al-Gharbi argues that this is only the latest in a series of "awokenings" over the past century. In each case, he contends, the focus was more on competition within the growing ranks of "social capitalists" (i.e., knowledge workers) than on the plight of the poor and marginalized -- and the net impact consisted more in stoking backlash than in actually driving progress. On this episode of The Permanent Problem podcast, host Brink Lindsey sits down with al-Gharbi to discuss his new book, reviewing the rise of "symbolic capitalists" to economic and cultural dominance and analyzing the dynamics that have led to the poisonous politics of the present day.

Musa's track record as Trump-reader and his new book, We Have Never Been Woke ... The reason Trump won—twice ... Messaging that works for the working class ... Has the left lost the faith(ful)? ... Who is wokeness even for? ... Biden's bad messaging ... Why elites failed to deliver on social justice ... Heading to Overtime ...

Musa's track record as Trump-reader and his new book, We Have Never Been Woke ... The reason Trump won—twice ... Messaging that works for the working class ... Has the left lost the faith(ful)? ... Who is wokeness even for? ... Biden's bad messaging ... Why elites failed to deliver on social justice ... Heading to Overtime ...

Our friend and colleague Stony Brook sociologist Musa al-Gharbi has a new book out. And it's a tour-de-force. We Have Never Been Woke is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand the economic, political and cultural divides between the haves and the have-nots in the United States. We were delighted to host Musa for a book talk on the Carleton campus last month. He spoke with Amna in front a packed house. This is episode 2. Episode 1 is available here. Show Notes* On the limitations of diversity training, see this piece from Musa, “Diversity is Important. Diversity-Related Training is Terrible.” Also see this piece we wrote in Inside Higher Ed, “Don't Mistake Training for Education.” And this short, animated explainer video we made, “Training is Performative. Education is Transformative”* Georgetown philosopher Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò wrote the book on elite capture; here's a précis in the Boston Review. And this piece by Táíwò, published in The Philosopher, is also worth reading: “Being-In-The-Room Privilege: Elite Capture and Epistemic Deference”* Creating a Class: College Admissions and the Education of Elites by Mitchell Stevens is arguably the best book ever written on how the many advantages of the rich and well-off accumulate in the race to get into the most prestigious schools* On the incentives for students of color to highlight their trauma in college admissions essays, this NYT piece is excellent, “When I Applied to College, I Didn't Want to ‘Sell My Pain.'” On “racial gamification” in college admissions, see Tyler Austin Harper, “I Teach at an Elite College. Here's a Look Inside the Racial Gaming of Admissions”* College essays are more strongly correlated with social class than SAT scores. See this journal article by A.J. Alvero et al.* On the question of whether college admissions tests drive or reflect social inequalities, see this Banished episode (“Should More Colleges Drop the SAT and ACT?”) and this article in Inside Higher Ed (“Tests are not the source of inequities in American society”)* On the test-optional debate, see this article from the New York Times, this study from Dartmouth College and these comments from the MIT Dean of Admissions* Bertrand Cooper, “Who Actually Gets to Create Black Pop Culture?” (Current Affairs, May/June 2021)* Matt Taibbi discussed the controversy surrounding former Intercept journalist Lee Fang here This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit banished.substack.com/subscribe

Our friend and colleague Stony Brook sociologist Musa al-Gharbi has a new book out. And it's a tour-de-force. We Have Never Been Woke is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand the economic, political and cultural divides between the haves and the have-nots in the United States. We were delighted to host Musa for a book talk on the Carleton campus last month. He spoke with Amna in front a packed house. Here are some of the highlights. More to come in our next episode in about a week's time. Show Notes* Musa's personal website * Follow Musa on twitter here, bluesky here* We Have Never Been Woke has attracted widespread attention and acclaim in the media; see, for example, these articles in The Atlantic, The Guardian, The New Yorker & The Washington Post This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit banished.substack.com/subscribe

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Musa al-Gharbi, professor and author of We Have Never Been Woke, examines wokeness as an elite-driven ideology. He addresses the question of who it truly serves: the elite or the working class. He explores how social justice has been used to gain power and social media's role in spreading woke principles. Resources We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite by Musa al-Gharbi

Musa al-Gharbi, professor and author of We Have Never Been Woke, examines wokeness as an elite-driven ideology. He addresses the question of who it truly serves: the elite or the working class. He explores how social justice has been used to gain power and social media's role in spreading woke principles. Resources We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite by Musa al-Gharbi

Musa al-Gharbi, professor and author of We Have Never Been Woke, examines wokeness as an elite-driven ideology. He addresses the question of who it truly serves: the elite or the working class. He explores how social justice has been used to gain power and social media's role in spreading woke principles. Resources We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite by Musa al-Gharbi

In this episode, sociologist Musa al-Gharbi discusses his book We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite. How should we understand the "woke" phenomenon? Where did it come from? Why do elite whites claim to be marginalized, while showing little care for genuinely marginalized people around them like the service workers they rely on? Article referred to in the podcast about China interfering to elect Bill Clinton president in the 1990s: https://musaalgharbi.com/2018/03/01/democrats-unlearned-lessons-2020/4/GUEST LINKS:

We are getting a government shutdown for Christmas! Or Hanukkah! Here's what happened and what might come next. On Thursday night, a vote on a continuing resolution was taken, which some viewed as 1) a stunning rebuke to Donald Trump 2) raising fears of a shutdown.The first claim is almost certainly incorrect, and the second is possibly wrong. Last minute gift idea! Get yourself a subscription.The root of the conflict lies in the Republican House conference's inability to unite behind ANY Continuing Resolution to fund the government. There are a handful of Reps that simply don't vote for them. Ever. For anyone. This is not a problem for the Democrats who do not have fiscal hawks in their ranks. It's just a part of the game. But Speaker Mike Johnson needs to pass a CR. So he has no choice but to negotiate with Democrats. But they know that he knows that they know he needed their support. Sensing leverage, Democrats demanded extensive concessions, transforming a slim resolution into a sprawling 1,500-page bill resembling an omnibus. Republican leaders, frustrated by being excluded from these negotiations, learned details of the bill from lobbyists who had inside knowledge.The situation intensified when media narratives blamed Trump and Elon Musk for killing the bill. In reality, internal GOP dissension doomed the Quasibus CR as soon as the text hit the internet. It would have died when it went to a vote.Did Trump and Musk accelerate its collapse and prevent a vote? Sure. But it woke up dead. It was never happening.Trump's Truth Social missives did set a new course, advocating for a clean continuing resolution with disaster relief and other GOP priorities while proposing a two-year suspension of the debt ceiling—a strategic move to avoid draining political capital on recurring debt ceiling battles. Specifically the Trump tax cuts which are a top priority in 2025.House conservatives, especially fiscal hawks like Ralph Norman, Chip Roy, and Thomas Massie oppose eliminating the debt ceiling (a key Republican cudgel when Dems run things) unless there are other massive spending cuts to go along with them. Their resistance in the Rules Committee prevented the bill from advancing traditionally, forcing a long-shot vote requiring a two-thirds majority on Thursday night, which was never realistic. GOP leadership permitted the vote anyway to gauge opposition and explore potential concessions.To put simpler, the bill that failed last night was always meant to fail. The question was by how much and who would vote no. One GOP House staffer expressed to me that more rock ribbed conservatives that talk a big game about government spending voted to suspend the debt ceiling than he would have guessed.Looking ahead, the bill will likely shrink more, possibly making the debt ceiling provision more palatable. If Johnson can flip one of the three hardliners on the Rules Committee, a party-line vote might succeed. Alternatively, a few Democrats might cross over, given the approaching holidays and the general desire to avoid a government shutdown.However, if the government does shut down, the practical impact could be limited since most federal employees would still receive holiday paychecks. Political fallout, however, would be inevitable, with intensified pressure to strike a deal after the new year.Despite the chaos, some GOP insiders view the vote as more promising than expected. Though 33 Republicans voted against the resolution, party leaders seem cautiously optimistic. If Trump and key Senate allies like J.D. Vance begin actively whipping votes, a slimmed-down resolution could pass. The next steps remain uncertain, hinging on whether enough conservatives can be persuaded to compromise in the days ahead.Or we shut down and reload for the new year as Trump 2 begins as Trump 1 ended: messy.Chapters & Timecodes* [00:00:00] Introduction and Upcoming Topics* [00:01:59] U.S. Government Shutdown and Congressional Infighting* [00:12:02] Trudeau's Political Crisis in Canada* [00:49:19] Musa Al-Gharbi on U.S. Electoral Trends This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.politicspoliticspolitics.com/subscribe

It's high time to start the postmortem of the latest Great Awokening. Jonah is joined by sociologist and author Musa al-Gharbi to discuss his new book, We Have Never Been Woke. Musa makes the casethat many of the maladies of the woke movement stem from a desire to achieve social justice without individual sacrifice and that wealth redistribution is much more complicated than the Macbook Marxists have been led to believe. Jonah and Musa discuss the capitalist soul of a seemingly altruistic elite, the concept of asymmetric multiculturalism, trustafarians, and the formula behind major social progress movements. Show Notes: —Musa's book: We Have Never Been Woke —The Credential Society: A Historical Sociology of Education and Stratification The Remnant is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch's offerings—including Jonah's G-File newsletter, weekly livestreams, and other members-only content—click here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.racket.news"We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi may be academia's first serious effort at self-analysis, and its surprising, enraging diagnosis rings all too true.Narrated by Jared Moore

In 'We Have Never Been Woke,' sociologist Musa al-Gharbi argues the so-called “woke elite” pursue two conflicting desires – to be elite and egalitarian. But the desire to be elite always wins, hurting the communities they vow to help.

In a provocative new book, sociologist Musa al-Gharbi offers a sweeping theory of wokeness as a recurring social phenomenon—that's right, we've been here before, says al-Gharbi—tied to “elite overproduction.” The book is understandably making waves and we decided to enter the fray of the conversation.

What purpose does “wokeness” really serve? Is it a way of thinking that helps lift up marginalized groups? Or is it a convenient way for elites to pay lip service to social justice while maintaining the status quo that benefits them? This week, I'm joined by sociologist Musa al-Gharbi to discuss his new book We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions Of A New Elite. In addition to distilling his ideas about wokeness as “cover for elites,” we talk about Musa's love for French theorists, the value of his community college education, and the culture shock he experienced when arriving at Columbia University. We also explore whether women are overrepresented in elite workplaces and how this might affect perceptions of gender inequality and male dominance. GUEST BIO Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. His research primarily focuses on the political economy of knowledge production and the “social life” of scholarly and journalistic outputs. He is a columnist for The Guardian, and his writing has also appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and The Atlantic, among other publications. al-Gharbi's first book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, was published by Princeton University Press in October 2024. Follow him on Substack. Want to hear the whole conversation? Upgrade your subscription here. HOUSEKEEPING

Musa al-Gharbi is the author of “We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite.” He join to discuss Elite Overproduction, and how it results in mass movements. Book at: www.mightyheaton.com/featured

In the wake of the recent election, journalists, sociologists, political party leaders, and all of us are looking at the voting data, examining what ballot initiatives passed and where, and asking, “What does this data tell us about the people and culture in our country?” Autumn and Hunter discuss four themes that emerged from the election trends. 1) Legacy Media vs. Alternative Media 2) The Broad “Trump Voting Coalition” 3) The Abortion Issue, and 4) The Return to Political Norms.Resources mentioned in this episode:Financial Times: U.S. Election Results 2024No, the Problem Isn't the Voters by Bari Weiss and Oliver WisemanThe Doug Election and America After the Great Dechurching by Jake MeadorHow Trump Won, Again by Nate CohnAbortion Rights Ballot Measures Succeed in 7 of 10 States by Kate ZernikeColorado Voters Move to Put Existing Abortion Laws Into State Constitution by Bente BirkelandSee the Voting Groups That Swung to the Right in the 2024 Vote Vote by Zach Levitt, Keith Collins, Robert Gebeloff, Malika Khurana, Marco HernandezContextualizing the 2024 Election: It's the (Knowledge) Economy, Stupid by Musa al-Gharbi

What does it mean to be "woke"? It's become a catchall term to smear or dismiss anything that has any vague association with progressive politics. As a result, anytime you venture into an argument about “wokeness,” it becomes hopelessly entangled in a broader cultural battle. Today's guest, journalist and professor Musa al-Gharbi, helps us untangle "wokeness" from its fraught political context. The author of a new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, al-Gharbi explains what effects the movement is and isn't having on our society. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Musa al-Gharbi (@Musa_alGharbi), author, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMusa is a sociologist and writer. He's an assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. His first book is We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite. He also has a great substack, Symbolic Capital(ism).For two clips of our convo (recorded on October 9) — how “elite overproduction” fuels wokeness, and the myth of Trump's support from white voters — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: raised in a military family; a twin brother who died in Afghanistan; wanting to be priest; his stint as an atheist; converting to Islam; how constraints can fuel freedom; liquid modernity; going to community college before his PhD at Columbia; becoming an expert on the Middle East; getting canceled as a professor because of Fox News; his non-embittered response to it; engaging his critics on the right; my firing from NY Mag; the meaning of “symbolic capitalism”; how “white privilege” justifies the belittling of poor whites; deaths of despair; the dilution of terms like “patriarchy” and “transphobe”; suicide scare tactics; fairness in sports; books on wokeness by Rufo, Kaufmann, Caldwell, and Hanania — and how Musa's is different; Prohibition and moralism; Orwell's take on cancel culture; the careerism of cancelers; the bureaucratic bloat of DEI; “defund the police”; crime spiking after June 2020; the belief that minorities are inherently more moral; victim culture; imposter syndrome and affirmative action; Jay Caspian Kang's The Loneliest Americans; Coates and Dokoupil; Hispanic and black males becoming anti-woke; Thomas Sowell; and the biggest multi-racial coalition for the GOP since Nixon.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Damon Linker on the election results, Anderson Cooper on grief, David Greenberg on his new bio of John Lewis, Christine Rosen on humanness in a digital world, and Mary Matalin on anything but politics. Sadly Peggy Noonan can't make it on the pod this year after all. We tried! And a listener asks:Is Van Jones still coming on the show? You said he was going to, and now his upcoming interview hasn't been spoken about for the last few episodes.He said he would but his PR team put the kibosh on it. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com. Our episode with Sam Harris last week was a smash hit, driving more new subs than any other guest in a while. A fan writes:I always really like your conversations with Sam Harris. You always seem to bring out the best in each other.A listener dissents:On your episode with Sam Harris — besides the fact that it was an “interview” of you, not him — your insistence that Harris and Biden haven't done anything about immigration needs more investigation. For example, see this new piece in the NYT:The Opinion video above tells the little-known story of how Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris worked behind the scenes to get the border crisis under control. I found that they acted strategically, out of the spotlight, since the earliest days of the administration. They even bucked their own party and fulfilled Republican wishes, though they've gotten little credit for it. Their hard work finally paid off when illegal crossings dropped significantly this year.Sam said toward the end of the episode, “I hope we haven't broken the Ming vase here. … We both want a Harris presidency. … It's the least bad option.” I listen to Kamala all the time, and your rants against her are warranted and should be done, but honestly, the two of you have done more to smash the bloody vase than carry it!I tried to make it through that NYT op-ed video. It's an absurdist piece of administration spin. There was nothing to stop Biden enforcing his 2024 executive order in 2021. He didn't because his core policy is expediting mass migration, not controlling it. As for Harris, it's not my job to be her campaign spokesman. I know a lot of legacy journalists seem to think it's their job to push her over the finishing line. But that has never been my thinking. I'd like both Trump and Harris to lose. But if I had to pick one, it would be Trump. The idea of four years of Harris is soul-sucking.Sam is also putting the episode on his own podcast, so the conversation was intended to be a two-way “interview” — though the Dishcast in general is always meant to be a conversation. On the following clip, a listener writes:You're absolutely right. But this is so obvious, and the fact that Harris can't articulate what would clearly be advantageous to her indicates she is incapable of clearly articulating positions. She's turned out to be the same horrid candidate she was in 2019. Unfortunately.Another writes about that clip, “As a prosecutor she makes a great case against voting for Trump, but she doesn't have the defense attorney skills needed to make the case for herself.” This next listener has an idea for a Sister Souljah moment:Sam asked you what Harris could do in the final stretch, and you both agreed that she needed to show some independence from Biden and also distance herself from the craziness of the woke left. I want to point you to my latest Substack post, which points out an opportunity she currently has to do both in one press conference.In the past couple of weeks, the Biden Justice Department has sued the Maryland State Police, the Durham Fire Department, and the South Bend Police Department over “racially disparate”  employment tests. They are testing skills such as literacy, basic math, and the ability to communicate, all in the context of doing the actual job. The DOJ is calling it discrimination because black people do worse on the test than white people. There is also a physical test where you have to prove you have the minimum level of fitness to do the job, and the DOJ calls that sexist because fewer women are able to pass.This is obviously complete insanity. Anyone but the wokest of the left understand that these jobs require standards, and that implementing any objective standards is likely to have a disproportionate impact on race and gender. While Maryland and Durham quickly settled the suits and signed consent decrees, South Bend is fighting it. South Bend is, of course, the hometown of former mayor Pete Buttigieg. Harris could schedule a campaign event in South Bend with Mayor Pete where she defends the South Bend police and pledges that a Harris administration will drop this suit and not prosecute any similar cases. This could be a “Sister Souljah moment,” as Sam called for. It would also show independence from Biden, since his DOJ has been filing these suits. It could bring the last few undecideds over to her side. Dream on, I'm afraid. This kind of race discrimination and abandonment of objective standards in hiring is at the heart of Harris' leftism. She hasn't renounced it. Au contraire. Here's another clip from the Sam pod:Another listener writes:I happen to subscribe to both the Dishcast and Sam's podcast, so I know you both well. I'm so surprised that you two can't understand the appeal of Trump to one half of the country. Let's be honest and clear: Trump voters care LESS about preserving the system as-is (the peaceful transfer of power) than about RESCUING the nation from the cancer of woke. It is almost completely cultural.Trump supporters despise the anti-white, anti-male, anti-Christian hatred that has been so deeply ingrained into our daily lives. We all live in terror for wrong thought and wrong speech. We feel disgust for being called racist, misogynist, xenophobic — with the knowledge that woke progressives control the apparatus of power in our media, corporations, entertainment, and education. It is cancer when our entire body politic has been so thoroughly invaded by this malignant force.We are sick of this cancer. Sick. Sick. Sick. Kamala is a shill of this force. Her tepid disavowals (and convenient pivot to the center) are not genuine. We know who she is. She protects and metastasizes this cancer into every touchpoint of our lives. Sam says she is “no woke Manchurian candidate,” but he is wrong. Even if he IS right, why should we trust her when she so clearly made her wokeness clear in 2019? We shouldn't.The left is cancer. Trump is radiation. No one wants cancer and no one wants the radiation, but that's where we are.I feel you. I do. It's what makes this election so painful for me. Another listener comments on “the subject of why the Democrats and Harris can't say what the majority of Americans want to hear on issue after issue”:Isn't the fundamental problem very simply that the Overton window of the Democratic Party doesn't allow it? Harris may know that Americans want to hear a defense of fracking, but can a Dem really speak in favor of fracking at a San Francisco dinner party and expect to be invited back? Can a Dem really speak against the trans activist position? Against DEI? Against abuse of asylum rules at the Southern border? Of course not. Those are not acceptable positions in Dem activist and donor circles. Contra what Michelle Goldberg tried to say when she was on your podcast, or what Rahm Emanuel told Sam Harris, the activist position sets the limits of acceptable discourse among Democrats.All of us who live in NPR-listening land know this. I would never say what I actually think about gender revolutionaries at a social gathering in my left-liberal community, because it'd be the last social event I'd ever attend. It might be safe to talk about the need for some actual policing these days — that issue might get a few cautious nods — but everyone in the room would be nervous, because who knows if one of these guests we've never met before who works at a nonprofit is going to turn out to be a social justice activist and trot out “systemic racism” and the carceral state and all the rest of it. Maybe Rahm and Michelle are right that most Democrats don't actually buy most of far-left activist thinking, but that doesn't mean it's okay to disagree. And remember, most Democrats are riddled with guilt about everything: climate change, systemic racism, patriarchy, theft of land from Indigenous peoples … it's all our fault, isn't it? So we need to be humble, check our privilege, and listen to the activists and their moral truths.By the way, I listened to your podcast with Sam only a week after finishing Tom Holland's Dynasty — about Caesar Augustus and his heirs through Nero. I know comparisons between America and ancient Rome can get tiring, but holy s**t: an elite appealing to the masses not as one of them, but as their tribune? Check. Entertainment value winning the day every time over serious speeches by humorless patrician elites? Check. Amusing the plebs by publicly humiliating the most esteemed senators, reducing them to flattery and groveling? Check.  I'm not saying Trump is knowledgeable enough to copy a Caesar's playbook intentionally, but he seems to have stumbled on a remarkably similar (and similarly effective) approach.I have explored the Roman parallels myself. One more listener on the episode:The conversation with Sam Harris was really what we need right now: insightful and often humorous in light of the grave situation we face. It's not Trump I'm afraid of; it's everyone else. If Trump does not win, I fear there will be violence — and he won't even have to call for it this time. Whether it's business or politics, the leader sets the tone, and Trump's tone is angry and permissive of trampling perceived enemies. I don't think it's a stretch to predict self-formed Trump militias springing up as a pretense to defend election integrity, hunt down illegal migrants, or generally “keep order” where another organization has failed to do so. I pray that I'm wrong. Another thing to consider is that if Trump loses, we won't be rid of him. He's controlled the Republican Party and influenced the culture wars for the last four years, and we won't see that endSam brought up Nixon, and it's something I've been thinking a lot about in the Trump years. Watergate — the foolish break-in itself — was nothing compared to what Trump has said and done since 2016, but the scandal took down the president because the public perceived that the president's behavior was reprehensible to the office. Nixon KNEW he lied and had enough integrity to actually resign over it. I was a kid then and can remember how appalled people were by Watergate and thought of Nixon as a disgrace. How things have changed in 50 years.I'm also worried about leftist violence if Trump wins. Another writes, “I thought your episode with Tina Brown was tremendous”:She's an exceptionally astute and admirable woman. I immediately took out a full year to her new substack. It was touching to listen to the account of her model marriage to Harold Evans (I think the Sunday Times was at its greatest when he was the editor). And the description of her autistic son and their time together shows her to be a beautiful, loving mother, as well as a towering intellect.I particularly appreciated the comparison you both made of US to UK politicians:Like you, Andrew, I studied at Oxford in the mid-1980s and always felt that institutions like the Oxford Union (where I saw you, Boris, and Micheal Gove perform, amongst others), and later Prime Minister's Question Time, toughened up UK politicians to a degree that is unheard of in the US. I actually had the pleasure of witnessing Question Time live when Thatcher was PM. What struck me was not only the substantive issues raised during those sessions, but also the sheer brilliance of the repartee. Thatcher gave as good as she got, and she made mincemeat of the Labour opposition. Question Time compared to the deliberations of the fatuous Congress is like comparing Picasso's work to that of a 5-year-old finger painter. It doesn't even bear thinking about how Biden would cope in an environment like that, let alone Trump. Both you and Tina come from that glorious UK debating tradition, and it shines through consistently throughout the episode.My massive disappointment when I first watched the US House and Senate was related to this. So unutterably tedious. Another on the Tina pod:If not too late, perhaps this will offer some help to Tina Brown, as your other listeners have suggested communities for adults with special needs: Marbridge in Austin, TX. Our daughter is only 12 and she has a rare genetic condition that basically means she will not be able to fully integrate into society. We are in the process of learning about opportunities for her to have some level of independence as she ages, if she so desires.Here's a suggestion for a future guest:I'm glad you are gaining new subscribers, but I think it may be time to cull the herd and have on someone who will make the smugs' blood boil. The brilliant and caustic Heather Mac Donald — one of a few prominent conservatives to excoriate Trump for January 6th — is scrupulously honest yet merciless in attacking left-wing hypocrisies on topics ranging from race and policing to the DEI takeover of classical music.She sure is. Amy Wax anyone? Another rec:I know you have quit Twitter somewhat, so I am not sure if you know who Brianna Wu is, but I strongly suggest looking her up. Bari Weiss just interviewed her:I think you and Wu would be absolutely fantastic, and I think you would really like her — as would Dishheads.Yep, great rec — we're already planning to reach out to Wu. Another plug for a trans guest:In case you didn't see it, here's an interesting interview with a trans man, Kinnon MacKinnon, who researches detransition. I found it refreshing to hear someone speak about detransition from an empirical perspective. It's a real phenomenon that to date has either been denied by trans activists or turned into red meat for the right-wing. A fact of logic so often forgotten is that two things can be true at the same time. Thus, adults who are truly trans should be allowed to live the lives they want; AND society should protect children against fervent trans activists who would rush them into radical “gender-affirming care.” The reality of sex (as opposed to gender) needs to be more firmly established in the public's understanding. In short, we need more honest brokers in the discussion about trans issues if we are ever going to find the proper balance between allowing adults to make their own life decisions and respecting biological females on issues where sex (not gender) should be the overriding variable on which to make public policy and healthcare decisions. I don't know if Kinnon MacKinnon is truly an honest broker, but he seems to have potential. Perhaps you could consider him for a Dishcast.I passionately defend the right of trans adults to do whatever they need to make their lives as fruitful as possible. It's children — and children alone — I'm concerned with. On the topic of sex-changes for kids, a frequent dissenter writes:When confronted with evidence that only a minuscule percentage of kids in the US are being prescribed puberty blockers and hormones in the late 2010s, it's an artless dodge to try to reframe the discussion around the experiences of 124 kids who presented at a UK gender clinic in the 1990s, the vast majority of whom never transitioned at all. You cannot use that data to imply that the majority of kids being prescribed puberty blockers in America today are actually gay kids destined for detransition and regret. You are distorting the facts to fit your narrative.Time and time again, the evidence shows that there is no epidemic of “transing” gay youth.

The Stony Brook sociologist discusses how progressives are having a hard time processing why more and more black and Latino voters are supporting Donald Trump.

A joke at a punch rally gets pilloried. And a full-show interview with Musa al-Gharbi on his book We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite. This is the conversation all the symbolic capitalists have been waiting for! Produced by Joel Patterson and Corey Wara Email us at thegist@mikepesca.com To advertise on the show, visit: https://advertisecast.com/TheGist Subscribe to The Gist: https://subscribe.mikepesca.com/ Subscribe to The Gist Youtube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4_bh0wHgk2YfpKf4rg40_g Follow Mikes Substack at: Pesca Profundities | Mike Pesca | Substack Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Subscribe to Pluralist Points on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor at Stony Brook University whose research explores how people think about, talk about, and produce shared knowledge about race, inequality, social movements, extremism, policing, and other social phenomena. His new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, examines the rise and fall of wokeness among America's elites and explores the underlying social forces at play. Tyler and Musa explore the rise and fall of the "Great Awokening" and more, including how elite overproduction fuels social movements, why wokeness tends to fizzle out, whether future waves of wokeness will ratchet up in intensity, why neuroticism seems to be higher on the political Left, how a great awokening would manifest in a Muslim society, Black Muslims and the Nation of Islam, why Musa left Catholicism, who the greatest sociologist of Islam is, Muslim immigration and assimilation in Europe, and more. Read a full transcript enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video. Recorded September 19th, 2024. Other ways to connect Follow us on X and Instagram Follow Tyler on X Follow Musa on X Sign up for our newsletter Join our Discord Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here.

***Vote for us to win a Signal Award.This is our unabridged interview with Musa al-Gharbi.  Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right? The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible? “The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves. Show Notes Resources: "We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi Similar NSE episodes: Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry's and a Better Capitalism Christian Miller: We're Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comWalter is a novelist, literary critic, and journalist. He's written eight books, most famously Up in the Air, which became a film starring George Clooney. He's now the editor-at-large for County Highway and co-hosts a weekly podcast with Matt Taibbi, “America This Week.” Way back in the day, I edited his work for The New Republic, and he guest-blogged for the Dish.For two clips of our convo — on Tim Walz as a “white minstrel” of a Midwesterner, and Walter watching speeches by Obama and Trump on LSD — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Walter's upbringing in rural Minnesota — “a Huckleberry Finn life”; the colorful characters of his small town; the humanist rear-admiral and feminist librarian who mentored him; learning horses from the Amish; his father the “short-haired hippie”; transferring to Princeton — “the coldest bath of my life”; the snobbery of his rich roommates; wanting to be a poet; his scholarship to Oxford; the anti-Americanism there; Shakespeare; drinking culture in London; working as a private eye; teaching immigrants to read in NYC; working at Vanity Fair with Tina Brown and the “Eurotrash elite”; The Great Gatsby; Gore Vidal on homosexuality; the overblown fear of militias in ‘90s America; the Matthew Shepard myths; the history of progressive populism in the Midwest; Gus Hall and Eugene McCarthy; towns decimated by NAFTA; Trump turning on Iraq War; the Pentagon Papers; Harris' interview on 60 Minutes; her passing on Josh Shapiro; the phoniness of Walz; his fascination with China; disinformation and free speech; the Twitter Files; demonizing rural people during Covid; the “information engineering” in the pandemic; Jay Bhattacharya's dissent; sex changes for minors; Helene and FEMA; immigration in small towns; Mickey Kaus; how the elite loathe Vance; Stop the Steal; and Walter living in Montana.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Tina Brown on her new substack, Musa al-Gharbi on wokeness, Sam Harris for our quadrennial chat before Election Day, and Damon Linker on the election results. Wait, there's more: Peggy Noonan on America, Anderson Cooper on grief, Christine Rosen on humanness in a digital world, Mary Matalin on anything but politics, and John Gray on, well, everything.Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

***Vote for us to win a Signal Award.Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right? The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible? “The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves. Show Notes Resources mentioned: "We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi Similar NSE episodes: Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry's and a Better Capitalism Christian Miller: We're Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Sociologist Musa al-Gharbi returns to discuss his new book, "We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite," published just today by Princeton University Press. "Rotten History" by Renaldo Migaldi follows the interview. Check out Musa's book here: https://musaalgharbi.com/we-have-never-been-woke-available-now/ Musa is currently on a book tour. Check out the dates here: https://musaalgharbi.com/book-tour-we-have-never-been-woke/ Help keep This Is Hell! completely listener supported and access bonus episodes by subscribing to our Patreon: www.patreon.com/thisishell

What happens when the guardians of cultural narratives and societal norms become inseparable from the very hierarchies they critique? Today, we explore the concept of "symbolic capitalists" with Musa al-Gharbi, author of We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite and assistant professor at the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. In this conversation, Musa discusses the role of symbolic capitalists in perpetuating societal inequalities and how their influence extends to academia and media. His latest book, "We Have Never Been Woke," provides a radical yet introspective take on these themes. Drawing from his experiences at elite institutions like Columbia University, he highlights the paradoxes and internal contradictions of symbolic capitalism. Join us as Musa al-Gharbi articulates the complicity of the professional-managerial class in societal injustices and reflects on the role of identity and networks in shaping academic and professional paths. In This Episode:Definition and impact of symbolic capitalistsCollaboration between symbolic and traditional capitalistsMoral and ethical implications of symbolic professionsThe interplay between academia and elite credentialingDisparities within symbolic professionsExploitation of adjunct professors in higher educationHistorical context of social justice movements among symbolic capitalistsThe symbolic performance of advocacy vs. direct actionRevisiting the relationship between personal success and systemic inequality About Musa:Musa al-Gharbi, Ph.D., is the Daniel Bell Research Fellow at Heterodox Academy, and an assistant professor of journalism, communication and sociology at Stony Brook University. Musa is the Author of We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, published by Princeton University Press. He is a columnist for The Guardian and his writing has also appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and The Atlantic, among other publications. Find Musa on X at @Musa_alGharbi and on Substack. Learn more about Musa at: https://musaalgharbi.com/musa-al-gharbi/biography/ Follow Heterodox Academy on:Twitter: https://bit.ly/3Fax5DyFacebook: https://bit.ly/3PMYxfwLinkedIn: https://bit.ly/48IYeuJInstagram: https://bit.ly/46HKfUgSubstack: https://bit.ly/48IhjNF

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comBill Wasik is the editorial director of The New York Times Magazine. Monica Murphy is a veterinarian and a writer. Their first book, Rabid: A Cultural History of the World's Most Diabolical Virus, was a bestseller, and they're back with a new one: Our Kindred Creatures: How Americans Came to Feel the Way They Do About Animals.For two clips of our convo — on the beginnings of dog welfare, and the “Uncle Tom's Cabin” for animal activism — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: writing a book as a married couple; the mass extinctions of early America; bison at the brink; how horses increased after the Industrial Revolution and drove the early movement for animal welfare; “the best humanitarian ideas came from England”; bullfighting in Spain; the profound role and colorful character of Henry Bergh; his founding of the ASPCA; the absence of vegetarianism among early activists; PT Barnum's sympathy and exploitation; transporting Beluga whales by train; the public clashes between Barnum and Bergh; journalism's role in animal welfare; George Angell's magazine Our Dumb Animals; the anti-slavery Atlantic Monthly; animal activism growing out of abolitionism; Darwin; Romanticism; George Bird Grinnell and first Audubon Society; fashion and consumerism; wearing hats with whole birds; the emotional lives of dogs; the activism around strays; the brutality of early shelters; rabies and dog catchers; Louis Pasteur and the rabies vaccine; Anna Sewell's Black Beauty; how she was robbed of royalties; the treatment of horses in Central Park; reform movements driven by elites; class resentment; Animal Farm and Watership Down; the cruelty of today's food industry; pig crates; Pope Francis; and Matthew Scully's Dominion.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Walter Kirn on his political evolution, Musa al-Gharbi on wokeness, Sam Harris for our quadrennial chat before Election Day, and Damon Linker on the election results. Wait, there's more: Peggy Noonan on America, Anderson Cooper on grief, Christine Rosen on humanness in a digital world, Mary Matalin on anything but politics, and John Gray on, well, everything.Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Over the past decade a form of wokeness arose on the illiberal left, characterised by extreme pessimism about America and its capacity to make progress. Analysis by The Economist of how influential these ideas are today finds that wokeness peaked in 2021-22 and has since receded. Why is America becoming less “woke”? John Prideaux hosts with Charlotte Howard and Idrees Kahloon. They're joined by The Economist's Ainslie Johnstone and Sacha Nauta, and Professor Musa al-Gharbi of Stony Brook University.Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Over the past decade a form of wokeness arose on the illiberal left, characterised by extreme pessimism about America and its capacity to make progress. Analysis by The Economist of how influential these ideas are today finds that wokeness peaked in 2021-22 and has since receded. Why is America becoming less “woke”? John Prideaux hosts with Charlotte Howard and Idrees Kahloon. They're joined by The Economist's Ainslie Johnstone and Sacha Nauta, and Professor Musa al-Gharbi of Stony Brook University.Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts Listen to what matters most, from global politics and business to science and technology—subscribe to Economist Podcasts+. For more information about how to access Economist Podcasts+, please visit our FAQs page or watch our video explaining how to link your account.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comDavid is an old friend, a long-time writer at The Atlantic, and a contributor to MSNBC. He's the author of 10 books, including Trumpocalypse and Trumpocracy.For two clips of our convo — on the way Biden has empowered Trump, and the outlook that won the Cold War — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Frum writing a memoir on being a Cold War baby; raised in Toronto — a city “filled with exiles and refugees” from both sides of that conflict; torture under Pinochet; how global security made Frum a conservative; the Nazis; the distinction between authoritarians and totalitarians; the Stasi in East Germany; the Netflix docu-series on the Cold War; the hubris of the West; the US condoning the coup against Allende; Khrushchev wanting to “bury” the West; JFK scared by Soviet growth; the Cuban Missile Crisis; the genius of Reagan and Thatcher to let the USSR implode; Gorbachev; the US neutralizing the nuclear stockpile after 1989; luring Russian scientists; the enduring influence of the KGB on Putin; the invasion of Crimea; Russia's historic claims on Ukraine; Putin's drive to revive an empire; today's hot war with a nuclear power; the likely fate of Ukraine; how the EU is economically depressed; the migrant crisis there; Merkel's role; Brexit; China lifting millions from poverty and fueling global trade; today's cold war with China; the Birther slur; Trump's wall; threats of mass deportation; asylum seekers vs. illegal immigrants; Biden's recent executive order; how both Frum and I are immigrants; how the Trump show is boring after a decade; Clinton's “I'm With Her” vs. Harris dulling identity politics; today problems vs. tomorrow problems; Washington leaving the presidency; Trump's deranged psyche; and the death of Frum's daughter Miranda.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Musa al-Gharbi on wokeness, Walter Kirn on Republican voters, Bill Wasik and Monica Murphy on animal welfare, Anderson Cooper on grief, John Gray on, well, everything, and Sam Harris for our quadrennial chat before Election Day. After the election we have Peggy Noonan on America, Christine Rosen on humanness in a digital world, and Mary Matalin on anything but politics. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This week on Blocked and Reported, Jesse is joined by Musa al-Gharbi, sociologist at the Stony Brook University School of Communication and Journalism and the author of the forthcoming book We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite. Musa on Twitter: https://x.com/Musa_alGharbiArizona instructor claims U.S. military 'greater threat' to peace than ISIS | Fox News This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.blockedandreported.org/subscribe

Yascha Mounk and Musa Al-Gharbi discuss why so many members of elite groups like to pretend they're oppressed. Musa al-Gharbi is an assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. His most recent book is We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Musa Al-Gharbi discuss the tendency of certain elite groups to lay claim to marginalized identities as a form of symbolic capital; the challenges posed by "asymmetric multiculturalism," in which we encourage certain groups to organize along identitarian lines while discouraging others from doing the same; and how we can apply greater consistency to our analysis of social dynamics. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: podcast@persuasion.community  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMichelle is an opinion columnist at the New York Times, and before that she was a columnist for Slate. She has written three books: Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, The Means of Reproduction, and The Goddess Pose. She's also an on-air contributor at MSNBC.For two clips of our convo — debating who the real Kamala is, and how much BLM is responsible for lost black lives — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: growing up in Buffalo with conservative parents; her dad a journalist and mom a math teacher; Michelle a teen activist in the “Buffalo abortion wars”; the legality but ugliness of clinic protests; a pro-life man knocking the wind out of her; ACT UP; going to J-school; reporting at mega-churches in Ohio in the 2004 election; Harris' moderate Smart on Crime book in 2009; her “triangulating” in 2019 (e.g. fracking); her busing moment with Biden; supporting a bail fund in summer 2020; Biden's bait-and-switch as a centrist; bipartisan support for Israel; Merrick Garland's effort to appear apolitical; lawfare; from Bush's “f**k yeah” patriotism to Trump's dark view of America; the Iraq War and 2008 bailout causing mistrust toward institutions; crumbling infrastructure; Trump never being a majority candidate; the cultural grievance fueling him; Michelle going to Trump rallies; the 1619 Project; debating the US as a “white supremacy”; the left radicalizing after Trump replaced a two-term black president; Covid mania; the distortion of Twitter; the Electoral College and its roots; the violent crime spike in 2020 and after; how the disadvantaged always bear the brunt of disorder; the greed of BLM Inc; the press distortion of unarmed black men killed by police; Michelle's 2014 piece “What Is a Woman?”; Rachel Levine; puberty blockers; the Dutch protocol; the Cass Review; bathroom bills; and the GLAAD protest against the NYT.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: David Frum on Trump, Musa al-Gharbi on wokeness, Walter Kirn on Republican voters, Bill Wasik and Monica Murphy on animal welfare, Mary Matalin on life, Anderson Cooper on grief, John Gray on, well, everything, and Sam Harris for our quadrennial chat before Election Day. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.