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We discuss the big expectations Notre Dame has going into 2026 and how they could impact the Irish in their push to a championship. We also discuss what players at each position group could shock us with their play this season as well as CJ Carr and more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
We discuss the big expectations Notre Dame has going into 2026 and how they could impact the Irish in their push to a championship. We also discuss what players at each position group could shock us with their play this season as well as CJ Carr and more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Gene lists his Bills positional battles for mini camp & training camp. Plus Sweet (Joe) Brady Lies. Gene also gives his pick for who wins game 4 tonight.
Sean Fazende and Andre Johnson Jr break down the #Saints offseason, ranking their top 3 positional battles as we head into the final week of #NFL #OTAs
Catching up on the Discord! Top 10 positional battles in CBB next year! Will these teams finish better or worse next season? The Sleepers Podcast is now available daily with new episodes every Monday-Friday! The College Basketball stock market is LIVE on Stakeholder! Buy low or sell high on teams as they lose and add players in the portal! Join using our link for an instant $15 bonus: https://stak3holder.com/join/sleepersmedia Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
In this episode, we discuss the Jets' kicker swap on the free agent market to kick off the carousel early this year. Also, does New York lack positional depth at key spots on offense & defense? That, and much more. If you've enjoyed episode, make sure to leave a positive rating if you're listening on Apple. Enjoy!
00:00 – 10:47 – Kevin wonders if we should play the montage from game 1 of the finals last year, Curt Cignetti on the cover of College Football 27, who will guard Victor Wembanyama tonight in the NBA Finals, James was at Fever practice 10:47- 19:33 – Morning Checkdown 19:33 – 45:18 – Looking at how Andrew Nembhard and Aaron Nesmith fit into the Pacers plan next year? Kevin goes position by position on the Colts and asks James if they got better at those positions. How does that exercise compare to last year? Kevin disagrees on how many positions are actually an upgrade, the upcoming kicker battle at training camp and Kevin can't wait to cover it. 45:18 – 1:10:50 - ESPN's Stephen Holder joins to first discuss him potentially attending the Miami-Notre Dame game this fall. James asks him whether Daniel Jones will be out there week 1 before Kevin poses how important depth is at wide receiver. Who will be the number 1 target in the offense, Tyler Warren or Alec Pierce? Kevin poses the exercise of positional upgrades to Stephen. He also explains why the Colts won't be as bad as some people think while also admitting there's lots of room to improve. The trio also revisits their group chat from last year's Miami vs. Notre Dame game. Morning checkdown. 1:10:50 – 1:21:33 – We play audio from our interview with Jake Query a few weeks ago that touched on why the Pacers had to include their pick in the Ivica Zubac trade. James answers if he would've included Obi Toppin or Andrew Nembhard in the trade. Are the Pacers too married to their core? 1:21:33 - 1:30:43 – Kevin breaks some news to Marc on what he will have to do for the station when he gets back, we'll be hearing from Mike Wells from Europe tomorrow, what is James' favorite NFL road trip, how close the Colts were to signing Jameis Winston in '22. 1:30:43–1:53:31 – Pregame and Postgame host for the Pacers TV broadcast, Jeremiah Johnson, joins to discuss who Colts fans hate more, the Knicks or Patriots? Also, which Tyrese Haliburton clutch shot was his favorite from last season? The biggest Pacer need for the season, revisiting the anonymous player poll from last season and is there an answer to how will we be able to watch the Pacers next season? Morning checkdown 1:53:31 - 2:04:56 – Is Anthony Richardson wearing a visor, toying with the idea of LeBron in a Pacer uniform, Anthony Richardson was a little muted on his vision when he talked last week 2:04:56 - 2:13:24 – Masters ticket pricing remains the same from last year, looking ahead to game 1 of the finals tonightSupport the show: https://1075thefan.com/the-wake-up-call-1075-the-fan/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dr. Margarita Fedorova discusses the effectiveness of shunting for idiopathic normal pressure hydrocephalus. Show citation: Luciano MG, Williams MA, Hamilton MG, et al. A Randomized Trial of Shunting for Idiopathic Normal-Pressure Hydrocephalus. N Engl J Med. 2025;393(22):2198-2209. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa2503109 Show transcript: Dr. Margarita Fedorova: Welcome to Neurology Minute. My name is Margarita Fedorova and I'm a neurology resident at the Cleveland Clinic. Today we're reviewing a randomized trial that provides high quality evidence for treatment we've been using for decades, shunting for idiopathic normal pressure hydrocephalus. The PENS trial, a placebo controlled effectiveness and iNPH shunting trial was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in December 2025 by Luciano and colleagues. This international multicenter study enrolled 99 patients across the United States candidate in Sweden. While idiopathic normal pressure hydrocephalus or iNPH is characterized by triad of gait impairment, cognitive decline in urinary continence, these findings can be non-specific and we mass factor in radiological findings too. Furthermore, while CSF shunting has long been the standard treatment, its effectiveness has never been rigorously confirmed in a large well-powered randomized trial. In this trial, patients with a clinical improvement in gait velocity after temporary CSF drainage were deemed eligible for shunting and randomizing the trial. What makes this trial particularly elegant is its blending strategy. All 99 participants underwent the same surgical procedure with the same commercially available programmable shunt valve. After surgery, the valve was set either to an open functioning position or to a high resistance placebo setting. Neither patients nor assessors knew who had a working shunt. This is about as close to a true double-blind design as neurosurgery can get. The primary outcome was changing gait velocity at three months. The open shunt group improved by 0.23 meters per second on average, while the placebo group showed essentially no change in 0.03 meters per second. That's a treatment difference of 0.21 meters per second, both statistically significant and clinically meaningful. To put that in perspective, a change of 0.10 meters per second is considered the threshold for substantial meaningful change in the elderly. 80% of the open shunt group exceeded that threshold compared to only 24% of the placebo group. The Tenet scale, which measures gait imbalance, also showed significant improvement in the open shunt group. However, screening measures for good condition using the MoCA scale and bladder symptoms did not reach significance at three months, though tertiary outcomes for cognitive testing, quality of life and functional independence tended in favor of shunting. Importantly, falls were more common in the placebo group at 46% compared to 25% in the open shunt group. This is a meaningful safety signal given how dangerous falls are in older adults. There were also real risks with active shunting. Subdural hematomas occurred in 12% of the open shunt group versus 2% of placebo and three even required surgical intervention. Positional headaches from low CSF pressure were more common in the open shunt group at 59% versus 28%. The good news is that the adjustable valve allowed non-invasive management of many of these complications. While this trial gives us reasons to be cautiously optimistic about shunting for appropriately selected iNPH patients, it's worth noting that we only have evidence for improvement in gait and follow-up is only three months. Longer-term data is still being collected so we don't know yet how durable these benefits are. If you want to read more, please find the paper by Mark G. Luciano, et al. It's titled A Randomized Trial of Shunting for Idiopathic Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus published in the New England Journal of Medicine in December 2025. That's your neurology menu for today. Keep exploring and we'll see you next time.
I first go over all the news that came out of the Eagles “open to media” practice and more so just overall thoughts on how the team lined up. I finish the show going over the CB room and how it stacks up in comparison to last season.https://sportspyder.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/news?pid=4349
Alan Saunders and Zachary Smith discuss all things Pittsburgh Steelers. On today's episode, we discuss what battles we are seeing take shape. From Mason Rudolph and Will Howard battling for QB2 to Roman Wilson trying to hold off Germie Bernard to two open spots on the right side of the offensive line, how will these play out? We then discuss the team dismissing Derius Swinton II from the coaching staff, the changes to cutdown day and much more. Let's go for another Steelers Afternoon Drive and discuss all this! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Alex Barth of 98.5 The Sports Hub and Brian Hines of Pats Pulpit go LIVE on the Patriots Beat Podcast to preview OTAs ahead of Wednesday's practice. Patriots Beat on CLNS Media is Powered by:
12pm hour of The K&C Masterpiece! Is this rock bottom for the Rangers? Seriously, what the hell?! Will this positional coach help Terence Steele improve? And do all NFL teams do this? AM ON THE FM: National Paper Airplane Day / the best college baseball story ever!
Let's talk about the middle of the defense. One of which with major questions and another that even though you lost an All-Pro level player you still feel fantastic about. https://sportspyder.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/news?pid=4349
The Steelers bring back Aaron Rodgers on a one year deal and we discuss the hopes for his final year. We then breakdown the Wide Receiver room and the players who have their place on the team solidified and who could lose their role. All that and more on this week's episode. Go Steelers!
This show is dedicated to going over the defensive line. But before I do I go over the big information Vic Fangio revealed during his press conference and some more talk about AJ Brown.https://sportspyder.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/news?pid=4349
They'll tell you the Terror was born from ideology, from fanaticism, from Robespierre's madness. That's too small. Much too small.The real engine wasn't fervor. It was a machine — a legal apparatus the Committee of Public Safety built piece by piece. The Law of Suspects in September 1793 made suspicion itself sufficient evidence. The Law of 22 Prairial in June 1794 stripped revolutionary tribunals of defense counsel, witnesses, and meaningful cross-examination. In 47 days, that machine consumed 1,376 lives in Paris alone. And in the end, it consumed the men who built it.This isn't conspiracy. It isn't ideology. It's architecture.In this video:→ Why Louis XVI's execution detonated rather than stabilized the revolution→ The Girondins, the Hébertistes, and the Dantonists — three factions consumed in eight months→ 9 Thermidor: how Robespierre's own machine ended Robespierre→ The same architecture under Stalin, Mao, and the Khmer Rouge — same playbook, different centuryCHAPTERS:00:00 The Machine, Not the Madness01:08 January 1793: Paris on the Edge02:08 Robespierre and the Definition of Virtue03:04 The Law of Suspects05:01 Three Factions Fall: Girondins, Hébertistes, Dantonists08:38 The Law of 22 Prairial10:36 Positional, Not Behavioral13:07 9 Thermidor: Robespierre Falls14:59 The Same Architecture: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot18:01 The Architecture, Not the IdeologySubscribe to Hidden Forces in History for civilizational autopsies of the empires, institutions, and patterns shaping the world we live in now.
This show I go over all the names currently on the Eagles roster who play WR and TE. I give my thoughts on how they can make the team and who are the likely candidates to do just that. And yes we talk about someone who may soon not be on the roster as well. https://sportspyder.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/news?pid=4349
Let's talk about the the offensive line. I go over what was easily the most disappointing unit on the team last year simply based off the lofty expectations the OL has every single season. I then go over the Eagles full schedule as it has been released. https://sportspyder.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/news?pid=4349
Join Ryan Rishaug, Jason Strudwick & Rob Brown as they examine and rank the Oilers' positional needs to address this offseason. Plus, an all-time golf story and celebrating moms everywhere!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
VolQuest's Brent Hubbs Talks College Football Playoff Expansion & Latest Positional Battles See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
VolQuest's Brent Hubbs Talks College Football Playoff Expansion & Latest Positional Battles See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Summary: May 7: Matthew (@MatthewBerryTMR) details his time at the Kentucky Derby which included a strange interaction at dinner to Jay (@croucherJD) and Connor (@ConnorJRogers), then the trio dive into where Matthew is placing rookies in his positional rankings this season. Jeremiyah Love, Jordyn Tyson, and Fernando Mendoza are among the players discussed. The crew also highlights A.J. Brown, Jaxson Dart and other veteran movers in the rankings along the way and wrap up the show with their favorite bets to win Super Bowl LXI. Description: (1:45) – Matthew recaps his time betting Churchill Downs and shares an unusual story going out to dinner (7:30) – Rookie RB Rankings: Jeremiyah Love (RB11), Jadarian Price (RB27) (18:45) – Rookie WR Rankings: Carnell Tate (WR25), Jordyn Tyson (WR32), Makai Lemon (WR44), KC Concepcion (WR46), Omar Cooper Jr. (WR55) + Germie Bernard, Antonio Williams intrigue (31:40) – Notable Veteran WR Movers: A.J. Brown (WR11), DeVonta Smith (WR14), Terry McLaurin (WR22) (37:20) – Jay reveals why he is feverishly rooting for Arsenal to win the Premier League (40:50) – Rookie QB Rankings: Fernando Mendoza (QB28) + Jaxson Dart (QB9), Tyler Shough (QB17) among top veteran movers (44:40) – Rookie TE Rankings: Kenyon Sadiq (TE20) + Mark Andrews (TE12), Dallas Goedert (TE13) headline veteran shifts (50:05) – Last Call: Way too early Super Bowl LXI Champion bets See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
We did our 53-Man Roster Projection but let's dive deeper into every position and get every name on the 90 man roster mentioned. This show we go over the QBs and the RBs and the case for all on how they can make the final roster.https://sportspyder.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/news?pid=4349
We're back for Mock Draft 2.0… and yes, it's still way too early.In this episode of Apples & Ginos, Blake and Evan run it back with their second “Way Too Early” fantasy hockey mock draft of the offseason—this time dialing in on categories league strategy through the first 4 rounds.After getting a first crack at it, the approach starts to shift:
The early-season volatility is in full swing, and this week's Razzball Fantasy Baseball Podcast breaks down a wave of prospect promotions, key injuries, and some early season positional evaluations. A major ace hitting the IL for elbow surgery leaves a huge void in rotations. Please, blog, may I have some more?
On today's episode of The Bucky Report, we break down the Wisconsin Badgers post-spring depth chart and project the full 2-deep heading into summer. After weeks of spring practice, it's time to evaluate who's rising, who's falling, and where the biggest position battles stand.We go position by position to build out our projected Wisconsin football depth chart for 2026, highlighting key storylines, surprise contributors, and players making major moves up the roster. From the quarterback room to key battles in the trenches and secondary, we've got a complete snapshot of where things stand right now.Plus, we deliver a full Stock Up / Stock Down report by position group, identifying the biggest winners and losers coming out of spring camp and what it all means heading into fall.
Foster Griffin pitching well for the Nats Beltway Blitz focus on NFL recap Do fan enjoy the picks outside Sonny Styles
CB and Clay catch up on the NHL and NBA Playoffs. Timberwolves lose both guards for the playoffs due to injury. The NFL Draft is now finished. We take a look at the draft results and how our teams did. Jeremiyah Love becomes the highest paid running back in the league after being drafted third overall.
Our NFL Draft preview concludes as James Weaver and Alex Vigderman from the R&D department are joined by Ben Hrkach to break down the skill position players in this year's draft. The prospects that we analyze this week include Fernando Mendoza, Makai Lemon, Cole Payton, and Rueben Bain Jr.Additionally, James wrote an article comparing the value of positions between the first and later rounds of the draft that we break down in the episode.Visit our NFL Draft Website. Off The Charts features a blend of statistical insights, tactical analysis, and personal opinions, aimed at providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the week's key matchups and the intricacies of the sport. You can follow our content on Twitter at @Football_SIS, on Bluesky at @sportsinfosis.bsky.social and at sportsinfosolutions.com.
Hour 3: Silver & Krueg continue their NFL draft talk by focsuing on the value of positional versatility, such as Nick Emmanwori for the Seahawks in last year's class. They're joined by Ted Nguyen of The Athletic, who shares his expertise on the top big-play prospects. They guys discuss the 49ers' potential picks, including edge rushers like Keldric Faluk and Cashius Howell, and safeties like Keionte Scott and AJ Haulcy. The conversation also touches on the team's needs, with a focus on strengthening the interior line and finding a great player, regardless of position.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Get access to the 2026 NFL Draft/Rookie Guide for FREE from Chad Parsons (and a VIP Chat with the best dynasty owners on the planet) by signing up as an All-Pro at www.Patreon.com/UTH. Thanks for listening, and keep building those dynasties! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
What does it really mean to be blessed? In this message, we're challenged to move beyond thinking of blessings as temporary or material and instead see the deeper, lasting spiritual blessings God has given us. Drawing from Ephesians 1, we discover that believers are not just lucky or fortunate—we are chosen, redeemed, forgiven, and sealed by God, with an eternal inheritance that cannot be taken away. This sermon then shifts to Matthew 5, where Jesus describes a different kind of blessing that one often feels counterintuitive. Blessed are those who mourn, the gentle, the merciful, the pure in heart, the peacemakers, and even those who are persecuted. These are not weaknesses, but marks of a life aligned with God and filled with His favor. The message challenges us to change our perspective: Stop focusing on what we don't have Start recognizing the spiritual blessings we already possess Learn to rejoice in both good times and difficult circumstances Instead of asking “Why me?” in hardship, we are encouraged to ask, “Why not me?”, trusting that even in difficulty, God is still blessing us and shaping us for eternity. When we truly begin to count our blessings, we realize something powerful—we will never reach the end of the list. Sermon Notes Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be God who blessed us with every spiritual blessing Ephesians 1:4 - 14 Positional blessings – holy & blameless, redemption, made known the mystery of His will, an inheritance, and seal by the Holy Spirit as a pledge as God's own possession Matthew 5:3 – 12 Character and Circumstance blessings – the kingdom of heaven, comfort, inheriting the earth, to be satisfied, receive mercy, seeing God, called sons of God, the kingdom of heaven and great reward
Trade smoke at picks 6 and 12 A week out from the NFL draft, the Detroit Lions Podcast locked in on the rumor with real bite. Dallas has eyes on jumping from 12 to 6 in a deal with Cleveland. That move would put the Cowboys in range for a defensive cornerstone. Names floated were concrete. Caleb Downs. Niese Styles. Rubin Bain. Jeremiah Love. Cardinal Bates. Cleveland, sliding to 12, would still sit in a clean pocket for an offensive tackle such as Caden Procter, Monroe Freeling, or Spencer Fano. The logic tracks. Dallas secures a high-end defender. Cleveland reloads up front. The Giants, Arizona, and the safe defender debate There is a catch. If Dallas covets the same player as New York, the Cowboys may need to leap the Giants. New York is not doing business with Dallas. That pushes the question higher on the board. Some believe five could be Downs' range. Positional value chatter will hum, but this class may mute it. Just take really good players. Arizona complicates everything. If Niese Styles is seen as one of the safest prospects, what stops Arizona from taking him? That possibility shapes the entire top 10. If Styles or Downs goes early, Dallas must recalibrate. If either slides to six, the door swings open for that 12-to-6 jump. What it means for the Lions at 17 The Detroit Lions sit at 17 and can let the board work for them. If Dallas climbs for a defender and Cleveland targets a tackle later, the middle of the round shifts. A run on defensive backs and edge players could shove an offensive tackle down to 17. A tackle surge could push a defender into Detroit's lap. Both outcomes help. The room weighed immediate impact versus projection. David Bailey's pass rush pop could hit early. Arnold Reed might take a different path to the same outcome. The staff's preferences matter. Aaron Glenn values defenders who attack the run and set edges with urgency. That lens will filter every option that hits 17. Detroit has done the homework on day two and day three paths. Now the choices at 17 crystallize. If the Cowboys-Browns swap happens, it clarifies priorities. If it fizzles, it still tilts the board through the threat of action. Either way, the Lions can stay patient, trust their stack, and pounce when the right player slides. #detroitlions #lions #detroitlionspodcast #nfldraft #seventeenthoverallpick #dallascowboys #clevelandbrowns #movefrom12to6 #offensivetackles #defensiveends #calebdowns #niesestyles #rubinbain #jeremiahlove #cardinalbates #cadenprocter #spencerfano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In this solo episode, Coleman Ayers breaks down a fascinating research study on fatigue and shooting performance, turning complex science into practical takeaways for coaches. Using the study “Basketball Fatigue Impact on Kinematic Parameters and Three-Point Shooting Accuracy”, Coleman explores a question every coach has seen firsthand: why players miss more shots late in games. While traditional coaching often emphasizes “using your legs” or simply training through fatigue, this episode reframes the issue—highlighting that the real breakdown is not just physical, but coordinative.Coleman dives into how fatigue disrupts timing, rhythm, and sequencing across the body, leading to slower releases, flatter shots, and decreased accuracy. He then connects these findings to real-world player development, offering actionable ways to design better shooting drills. From cueing faster releases to using constraints like defenders and game-like scenarios, this episode provides a clear roadmap for helping players maintain rhythm and efficiency under fatigue—without relying solely on conditioning or outdated cues.Timestamps00:00 – Introduction and purpose of the episode 01:09 – Overview of the fatigue and shooting study 01:50 – Why players struggle to shoot late in games 02:55 – Traditional approaches to training shooting through fatigue 03:50 – Key insight: fatigue causes coordination breakdown, not just loss of strength 04:25 – Study findings: drop in accuracy, slower release, flatter arc 05:45 – Visualizing fatigued shooting mechanics 06:30 – Common breakdowns: hitchy motion, deeper dip, arm-dominant shots 07:24 – Power vs. coordination and their relationship under fatigue 08:38 – Why common cues like “use your legs” can backfire 09:55 – The problem with slowing down the shot under fatigue 10:40 – Differences between rhythm shooters vs. power-based shooters 11:30 – Adapting shooting solutions for different player archetypes 12:25 – Importance of movement variability and adaptable shooting styles 13:49 – Why shooting faster can restore natural rhythm 14:25 – Managing early inconsistency when changing tempo 15:13 – Building a base before adding fatigue constraints 16:17 – Ways to safely introduce fatigue into training 17:35 – Creating functional, game-representative fatigue 18:15 – Importance of smart cueing during fatigue shooting 19:09 – Effective cues: speed, effortlessness, and attacking the ground 19:40 – Using defenders and constraints to naturally increase tempo 20:37 – Positional differences and implications for training 21:34 – Conditioning's role in maintaining shooting performance 22:15 – Using research to validate and refine coaching instincts 23:00 – Final thoughts on developing better shooting under fatigueCoaching ResourcesBAM Coaches Podcast: https://byanymeanscoaches.com/resourcesBAM Blueprint Book: https://byanymeanscoaches.com/blueprint-bookCall to ActionIf this episode helped you rethink how you train shooting under fatigue, share it with another coach or player who needs it. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and stay tapped in with By Any Means Basketball for more practical coaching insights backed by real research.
JJ and Kitchen talk NFL news, positional value, sleepers in this year's class, and more on this week's Late-Round Fantasy Football Show. Make sure to check out LateRound.com to preorder the 2026 Late-Round Prospect Guide. Want to get dynasty rankings while accessing the amazing Late-Round community on Discord? Become a Late-Round member today.Check out DraftKings Early Best Ball Contests that we mentioned in the show. Use promo code LATEROUND if signing up or click this link. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Help is available for problem gambling. Call (888) 789-7777 or visit ccpg.org (CT).18+ in most eligible states, but age varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. See terms at DraftKings.com. Sponsored by DK.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
In the final four, Marshall Harris and Gabe Ramirez were joined by Fox Sports reporter Carmen Vitali to discuss the Bears' mindset as the NFL Draft looms next week. What positions do the Bears need to address? Later, they discussed the latest developments in the Bears' stadium saga.
Welcome to Steelers Morning Rush, our new daily short-form podcast with Alan Saunders, giving a longer perspective on a single news topic surrounding the Pittsburgh Steelers or the National Football League. Today, it's the third episode of our 2026 NFL Draft preview, talking with Justin Melo of NFL Draft on SI and Titan Sized, to discuss the No. 4 overall pick, where the Tennessee Titans may very well be drafting a running back in Notre Dame's Jeremiyah Love, despite the lack of positional value. Alan and Justin break it down. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
For all those who missed out on London, see you in Miami next week!Notion, the knowledge work decacorn, has been building AI tooling since before ChatGPT, with many hits from Q&A in 2023 and unified AI in 2024 and Meeting Notes in 2025. At the end of their last Make user conference, Ryan Nystrom teased Notion 3.0's Custom Agents - and they are finally embracing the Agent Lab playbook!Sarah Sachs and Simon Last of Notion join us for a deep dive into how Notion built Custom Agents, why it took years and multiple rebuilds to get right, and what it means to turn a productivity tool into an agent-native system of record for enterprise work.We go inside the product, engineering, evals, pricing, and org design decisions behind one of the most ambitious AI product efforts in software today — from early failed tool-calling experiments in 2022 to agent harnesses, progressive tool disclosure, meeting notes as data capture, and the long-term vision for software factories and agentic work.We discuss:* Sarah and Simon's path to launching Notion Custom Agents, and why the feature was rebuilt four or five times before it was ready for production* Why early agent attempts failed: no tool-calling standard, short context windows, unreliable models, and too much complexity exposed to the model* The “Agent Lab” thesis: not just wrapping a model, but understanding how people collaborate and building the right product system around frontier capabilities* How Notion thinks about roadmap timing: not swimming upstream against model limitations, but also building early enough that the product is ready when the models are* Why coding agents feel like the kernel of AGI, and how Notion is thinking about “software factories” made up of agents that spec, code, test, debug, review, and maintain codebases together* How Sarah runs AI engineering at Notion (“notes from Token Town”): objective-setting over idea ownership, low-ego teams comfortable deleting their own work, and a culture designed to swarm around fast-changing opportunities* The “Simon Vortex,” company hackathons, and why security gets pulled in early rather than late* How Notion organizes AI: core AI capabilities and infrastructure, product packaging teams, and a broader company mandate that every product surface must increasingly work for both humans and agents* Why prototypes have become much easier to build internally, and how “demos over memos” changes product development inside a tool the whole company already uses every day* Notion's eval philosophy: regression tests, launch-quality evals, and “frontier/headroom” evals that intentionally only pass ~30% of the time so the company can see where model capabilities are going* What a “Model Behavior Engineer” is, and why Notion treats eval writing, failure analysis, and model understanding as a distinct function rather than just software engineering* The changing role of software engineers in the age of coding agents, and why the new job looks less like typing code and more like supervising a rigorous outer system of agents, PRs, and verification loops* How the “software factory” should work: specs, self-verification, bug flows, subagents, and minimizing human intervention while preserving the invariants that matter* A live walkthrough of a Notion Custom Agent handling coworking space tenant applications by triaging email, enriching applicants with web search, and writing structured data into a Notion database* How agents compose inside Notion: shared databases as primitives, agents invoking other agents, “manager agents” supervising dozens of specialized agents, and memory implemented simply as pages and databases* Notion's take on MCP vs CLI: why Simon is bullish on CLI's self-debugging nature, where MCP still makes sense, and how Sarah thinks about capability, determinism, permissioning, and pricing alignment* The evolution of Notion's internal agent harness: from early JavaScript coding agents, to custom XML, to Markdown and SQL-like abstractions, to tool definitions, progressive disclosure, and a much shorter system prompt* Why Notion cares about teaching “the top of the class,” building for sophisticated operators rather than abstracting away too much capability for everyone* How agent setup works today: agents that can configure themselves, inspect their own failures, and edit their own instructions — with guardrails around permissions* How Notion prices Custom Agents: credits as an abstraction over tokens, model type, serving tier, web search, and future sandbox costs; why usage-based pricing was necessary; and how “auto” tries to match the right model to the right task* Why Notion is not eager to train a foundation model, where they do fine-tune and optimize today, and why retrieval/ranking is one of the most important investment areas as more searches come from agents rather than humans* Why Meeting Notes became one of Notion's strongest growth loops: not just as transcription, but as high-signal data capture that powers search, custom agents, follow-up workflows, and the broader system of record for company collaboration* Why Notion is more interested in being the place where collaboration data lives than in building hardware themselves — and how wearables or other capture devices may eventually feed into that systemSarah SachsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmsachsX: https://x.com/sarahmsachsSimon LastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140X: https://x.com/simonlastFull Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00:00 Introduction and launching Notion Custom Agents* 00:01:17 Why Notion rebuilt agents four or five times* 00:03:35 Building for where models are going, not just where they are* 00:05:32 The Agent Lab thesis, wrappers, and product intuition* 00:08:07 User journeys, leadership, and low-ego AI teams* 00:13:16 The Simon Vortex, hackathons, and bringing security in early* 00:16:39 Team structure, demos over memos, and building for agents* 00:20:25 Evals, Notion's Last Exam, and the Model Behavior Engineer role* 00:27:37 Evals as an agent harness and the changing role of software engineers* 00:30:42 The software factory: specs, verification, and agent workflows* 00:32:18 Live demo: a custom agent for coworking space applications* 00:35:08 Composing agents, manager agents, and memory as pages* 00:38:15 Notion Mail, Gmail, native integrations, and tools* 00:39:43 MCP vs CLI and the cost of capability* 00:44:13 When Notion uses MCP vs building its own integrations* 00:47:43 The history of Notion's agent harness rebuilds* 00:55:35 Power users, public tools, and the setup agent* 00:58:01 Self-fixing agents, permissions, and “flippy”* 01:01:13 Pricing, credits, and choosing the right model automatically* 01:09:01 Why Notion isn't training its own frontier model* 01:14:07 Retrieval, ranking, and search built for agents* 01:17:27 Meeting Notes as data capture and workflow automation* 01:21:18 Wearables, hardware, and Notion as the system of record* 01:23:45 OutroTranscript[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio founder of Kernel Labs and I'm joined by swyx, editor of the Latent Space.[00:00:11] swyx: Hello. Hello. We're back in the beautiful studio that, uh, Alessio has set up for us with Simon and Sarah from Notion. Welcome.[00:00:18] Sarah Sachs: Thanks for having us.[00:00:19] Alessio: Thanks for having us. Yeah.[00:00:20] swyx: Congrats on the launch recently the custom agents, finally it's here. How's it feel?[00:00:26] Sarah Sachs: We ship things slowly. So it had been in Alpha for a little bit and at the point at which is it's an alpha, um, there's a group of people that are making sure it's ready for prod, and then there's a group of people working on the next thing.So sometimes some of these launches are a bit delayed satisfaction, so it's quite nice to remind yourself all the work you did because we do have a habit of like. Being two or three milestones ahead. Uh, just ‘cause you have to be, you know, you can't get complacent. Um, but it's been great that people understood how this is helpful.And I think that's just easier in general building AI tools today than it was two, three years ago. People kind of get it and so that user education, um, there's just, it was our most successful launch in terms of free trials and converting people and things like that. It was really successful, so yeah.But there's a lot to build.[00:01:12] swyx: Making it free for three months helps.[00:01:16] Sarah Sachs: Yep.[00:01:17] Simon Last: It was definitely super exciting for me because it's probably the fourth or fifth time that we rebuilt that.[00:01:22] swyx: Yes.[00:01:23] Simon Last: And I mean,[00:01:24] swyx: you've been building this since like 20, 22.[00:01:26] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, like, it was even right when we got access to like GPT four in late 20 22, 1 of the first ideas we had is like, oh, okay, let's make an agent that I, we used the word assistant at the time, there wasn't really the word, the word agent yet, but, oh, we'll give an access to all the tools the notion can do, and then it, we run in the background like, like do work for us.And then we just tried that many times and it just. Was too early. Um,[00:01:48] swyx: I need to force you to like double click on that. What is too early? What didn't work?[00:01:52] Sarah Sachs: We were fine to, like, before function calling came out. We were trying to fine tune with the Frontier Labs and with fireworks, like a function calling model on notion functions.This is right when I joined. I joined because, um, we needed a manager as Simon was needed to be able to go on vacation. So, uh, that's, that's around when I joined, so you can speak much more to it.[00:02:11] Simon Last: Yeah, we did partnerships with both philanthropic and open AI at different times, uh, to try to, at the time the, I mean, when we first tried, there wasn't even a constant of like tools yet.We, we sort of designed our own like, like tool calling framework and then we tried to fine tune the models to, uh, to use it over multiple turns. Um, and because it, it didn't work well out the box, I think. Yeah. The models are just too dumb and the context thing was also way too short.[00:02:37] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:02:37] Simon Last: Um, and yeah, we just kind of banged our head against it for a long time.Uh, unfortunately it was always like, there was always like sort of. Glimmers that it was working, but um, it never felt quite robust enough to be like a useful, delightful thing. Um, until I would say, uh, the big unlock was probably like Sonic 3.6 or seven, uh, early last year. And that's when we started working on our agent, which we shipped last year.Um, and then, and then uh, uh, custom agents, kinda a similar capability and that, that one just took longer because we, we just wanted to get the reliability up a lot higher. ‘cause it's actually running in the background.[00:03:14] Sarah Sachs: And the product interface of like permissions and understanding, you know, this custom agent is shared in a Slack channel with X group of people and has access to documents that are surfaced to Y group of people.And the intersect experts, Y might not be whole. And so how do you build the product around making sure administrators understand that permissioning took multiple swings.[00:03:35] Alsesio: Everything is hard back at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm curious, like when the models are not working, how do you inform the product roadmap of like, okay, we should probably build, expecting the models to be better at some reasonable pace, but at the same time we need to, you know, you had a lot of customers in 2022.It's not like you were a new company or like no user base.[00:03:54] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean I think there's always the balance of, you know, like you want to be a GI pilled and thinking ahead and building for where things are going. Uh, but also you wanna be like shipping useful things. And so we always try to like, like keep a balance there.You know, we. We try to take clear, like a portfolio approach. You know, we're always working on multiple projects and, and we're always trying to work on, you know, maintaining things where that have already shipped, like, like shipping new things that are like eminently working well and make them really good.And, and then we wanna always have a few projects that are a little bit crazy. Um,[00:04:23] Alsesio: and what are the a GI peel projects that you have today? I'm curious about, uh, you don't have to share exactly what you're working on, but I'm curious what are things today that maybe in 18 months people will be like, oh, obviously this was gonna work[00:04:35] Sarah Sachs: 18 months.[00:04:37] Alsesio: Yeah, 18 months is, you know,[00:04:37] Sarah Sachs: it's a long time and Yeah. Yeah.[00:04:39] Simon Last: I mean, there's a number of things happening. I think one thing that's becoming more clear is I think like, like, uh, coding agents are the kernel of EGI, sort of, everything is a coding agent. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sort of one, one direction.Um, and then, yeah, the exciting thing about that is sort of your agent can sort of bootstrap its own software and capabilities and actually debug and maintain them. And so yeah, we're, we're, we're thinking a lot about that. And then, yeah, like, like another category of things that I'm, I'm really excited about is like, uh, we call the software factory also.People are using this, uh, this, this sort of word. Um, basically it just means can you create sort of like a, as automated as possible, a workflow for developing debugging. Mm-hmm. Merging, reviewing, and maintaining a code base and a service where there's a bunch of agents working together inside, and like, like how does that work?[00:05:28] Sarah Sachs: If you think back to your initial question, like, why did this take so long? I think something,[00:05:32] swyx: I didn't say that, but Yes. Okay. Go ahead.[00:05:34] Sarah Sachs: Why, what, what changed over the three and half years of trying[00:05:37] swyx: it? Exactly. Right. Because most people always say like, it didn't work yet. Then reasoning models came, then it worked.I was like, okay, let's go a little[00:05:43] Sarah Sachs: bit. That's, I mean, that's part of it, but I think the other part of it that I actually think is really what will set notion apart for every new capability is we have like. Two skills that are crucial when it comes to frontier capabilities. One is not letting yourself swim upstream.So like quickly realizing if you're just pressing against model capabilities versus not exposing the model to the right information, not having the right infrastructure set up. That and of itself is the skill of intuition. And the second is to see, okay, you're not swimming upstream. Which direction is the river flowing and what is like, how do we think ahead about the product and start building it even if it's not great yet, so that when it is there, we're ready for it.Right? And like those can sometimes feel like counterintuitive things. Like we can be trying to fine tune a tool calling model when they don't exist yet. And that the trick is to not do that for too long, but realize that there was something there. And we've had a lot of things which like, um, we're just like not swimming in the right direction with the streams.I think we had multiple versions of transcription before we got meeting notes, right? Oh, I gotta talk[00:06:39] swyx: about that. Yeah.[00:06:40] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. Um, and so. I, I, I think that like we, we really closely partner with the Frontier Labs on capabilities and we also have to have strong conviction on, as those capabilities move.Notion is about being the best place for you to collaborate and do your work. And how does that narrative change if the way that we work changes?Yeah.[00:06:58] swyx: Yeah. You told me you were a fan of the Agent Lab thesis, and this is, this is kind of it, right?[00:07:02] Sarah Sachs: Right. I show that thesis to so many candidates. Like I have it as like micro chrome autofill.Um, at this point, like it's one of my most visitations[00:07:10] swyx: because like, is this the, here's why you should work in notion and not open, open eye. I, it's like,[00:07:14] Sarah Sachs: here's, here's what's different about it.[00:07:16] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:16] Sarah Sachs: And here's why. It's not just a rapper. I actually think more and more people understand it's not just a wrapper.[00:07:21] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:22] Sarah Sachs: Um, and by the way, like in the beginning, parts of what we build are wrappers on functionality. That works well, of course, but that's not really the most, um. I would say that's not the product that, that drives revenue. And that's not necessarily always what users need.[00:07:35] swyx: I mean, you know, notion is the AWS wrapper, but like the, the wrapper is very beautiful and like very, very well polished.So[00:07:40] Sarah Sachs: like the analogy,[00:07:41] swyx: like[00:07:42] Sarah Sachs: the analogy that I've been coming back to his Datadog in AWS[00:07:45] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:46] Sarah Sachs: So, uh, Datadog could not exist with, without cloud storage. Right. That it's kind of fundamental that that works. Um, and AWS has like a CloudWatch product, but Datadog is an expert on understanding how people want observability on the products they launch.And we're experts in understanding how people wanna collaborate, and that's really where our expertise lies.[00:08:04] swyx: Totally.[00:08:04] Sarah Sachs: Um, regardless of the tools that we use,[00:08:07] Alsesio: I'm kind of curious how you think about implicit versus explicit expertise. I feel like Datadog is half and half implicit and explicit. It's like they understand across markets and industries what engineering teams usually look for.With notion, it's almost like more of the expertise is at the edge because you as a platform, you're like so horizontal that the end user is not really the same. Mm-hmm. Like with Datadog, the end user is always like, yeah, an engineering lead, a kinda like SRE related person with notion. It can be anything.So I'm curious how you put that expertise into a product versus, you know, obviously it, WS cannot build notion. It's, that doesn't quite work in this case, but[00:08:44] Simon Last: it's, it's a little bit differently shaped. I think, you know, a classic vertical SaaS, like the data is kind of like that. They understand their individual customer very deeply.It's kinda a narrow slice, um, notion has always been super horizontal. And our, our task has always been to sort of balance these two somewhat opposing forces of like, we're listening to our customers and what they want us to build. It's a broad slice. And then also we're thinking about like, okay, how do we decompose what they want into, uh, nice primitives that are, that are really nice to use and we'll, we'll get us like as much bang for the buck as possible.And then, you know. Maintain the whole system, make it all like, like super clean and nice to use.[00:09:22] Sarah Sachs: We still have user journeys. I mean, we still focus on like core. I actually think the failure of our team is when we focus too much on what are cools that are, what are tools that are[00:09:31] Simon Last: mm-hmm.[00:09:31] Sarah Sachs: Cool tools. I actually think that's when we make have the least velocity because you still need some sort of focus on a user journey.So like for instance, we'll all sit down every Friday and look at the P 99 of like the most token exhaustive custom agent transcript and just look at why it didn't do well and cut a bunch of tasks. Like we still focus on like, this has, like this should work. Email triaging should work. Mm-hmm. Right. And similarly, like when we're talking about before building, um, chatting, um, before we started filming about, okay, how can I do PDF export?Well that's functionality that then merits. Maybe we should build a tool that has access to a computer sandbox in a file system and the ability to write code. Right? Right. Um, but it's because we're thinking about the fact that our users to do their, to do their daily work, need to export PDFs, not because we're like, Hmm, I think a computer tool could be cool.Like, let's just see what happens. Mm-hmm. Like we, we have to focus on some user journeys, otherwise we just don't have like, enough strategy to, to prioritize.[00:10:29] swyx: I think there's a lot of like really strong opinions that you've had. Do you have like sort of like a towel of Sarah Sachs? Like, you know, like what, how do you run your team?Like I feel like you just have accumulated all these strong opinions. Obviously part, part of this is your, your token town thing.[00:10:43] Sarah Sachs: I think the TAs working with Service X is, um, you'd have to, it depends who you ask. Um, I think it depends if you're on my team or a partner Right. Or a vendor.[00:10:54] swyx: Yeah. There other people want to run their teams the way that you're Yeah.You're like bringing these things. And then also similarly, uh, Simon, when you did the custom agents demo, you had like, well, we've been using custom agents and here's the super long list of everything that we do. No humans ever read it. Right? That's what you said. I was like,[00:11:07] Sarah Sachs: yeah. So I think for, for me, um, something that I learned very quickly and became very comfortable with was that my job was not to be the ideas per person or the technical expert.My job was to make it so that everybody understood the objective, had a resource to help prioritize what they should work on, and had an avenue to prioritize what they thought was important. And I think that's true with all, all leadership, but I think especially on the AI team. Almost all of our best ideas come from prototypes, from people that have a cool idea because they saw a user problem, and it's a huge disservice if all of those ideas have to pass, like the sniff test of what me and a product partner or Simon and Ivan decided were the direction, right?Because a lot of what we're doing is leaning into capabilities, so. I think that's the first thing is like, I don't really view like the role of engineering leadership as like, uh, hierarchical, nor has it ever been, but especially now, like very willing to change direction based on, um, like proof is in the pudding.Yeah. And like, and I think we have rebuilt our harness three or four times. And when you do that, then the second rule of engineering leadership is like you need to build a team that's comfortable deleting their own code and is very low ego and is driven by what's best for the company. And, um, doesn't write design docs because they think it's their promotion packet.Right. And that's a culture that notion had long before I joined, but like our willingness to just swarm on different problems and um, redo things that we've built before because something has changed. Like, there's a lot of friction that can happen at companies when you do that. And it doesn't happen at Notion.And because it doesn't happen when new people join. Like they don't wanna be the ones that are saying, we shouldn't do this. I wrote that code. So then it's, you know, you, you create a culture that everyone thoughts and that culture comes directly, I think from Simon and Ivan though, um, because they're very open-minded.[00:12:50] swyx: Anything that you,[00:12:50] Simon Last: you'd add? I'm not a manager, like, like, like Sarah is. Um, a lot of my role is really to try to think a little bit ahead, make sure that we're, we're building on the right capabilities and then like the prototyping stuff. And yeah, it's really, really critical to always just be starting again.It's like, okay, this is new thing. What does this mean? What if we just rethought everything or wrote everything? And so I, I'm, I'm basically just doing that in a loop every six months.[00:13:16] swyx: Yeah. Do you believe in internal hackathons for this stuff?[00:13:19] Sarah Sachs: I think there's like two different versions. So one is like, we just have a, a, a solid bench of senior engineers that come and go on what we call the Simon Vortex and Productionizing what we built, right?Because when you're in the Simon Vortex, the velocity is super high. The direction changes daily, and it's meant to be like the equivalent of a SC Works lab. We don't need to do hackathons for that. We need to have senior engineers that we trust to come in and out of those projects. For instance, like management boundaries are really loose.Like you report to him, but you work for her right now. Yeah. That's something that when we hire managers, it's important they don't care about because we tend to form more structures. Yeah. Don't be too[00:13:54] swyx: territorial.[00:13:55] Sarah Sachs: We form more. It's after we ship things, not not before, just historically. Um, the second thing is we do have companywide hackathons.Actually we just had our demos day for the hackathon we had last week this morning. That's more for people that aren't directly working on the project, feeling like they have the time to pause and learn how to make themselves more productive or how they would use notion custom agents to build something.Or part of the hackathon was actually encouraging everyone across the company to build their own agentic tool loop, calling from scratch. Follow like an every blog post on how to do what I think because we want[00:14:26] swyx: just with the compound engineering one. Yeah.[00:14:28] Sarah Sachs: We want everyone to use cloud code in the company or whatever the coding agent they please and understand that fundamental.So we set aside a day and a half. We're all leadership, encourage everyone on their teams across the company to do it. So we have hackathons like that. I would say like kind of facetiously, like everything we build is a little bit like a hackathon until it graduates and puts on big boy pants and as a product ops rollout leader and has a assigned data scientists and stuff like that,[00:14:54] swyx: security review enterprise stuff,[00:14:56] Sarah Sachs: actually security reviews one of the things that we bring in first because it just slows us down way more and, um, causes a lot of tension and they build better product if they're involved early.So, um, that is probably the first person to get involved in something that's the[00:15:09] swyx: right PR approved answer.[00:15:10] Sarah Sachs: No, but it's not just PR approved. It like, um, um, it's[00:15:13] swyx: actually real. It's actually real. It's like, um, I'm just saying scar[00:15:15] Sarah Sachs: tissue.[00:15:15] swyx: Yeah,[00:15:16] Sarah Sachs: because like, you know, my background's also, I worked at Robinhood for a number of years.Yes. So like, uh, compliance and things like that, um, are a little bit more, you learn the hard way when it doesn't come naturally.[00:15:26] Simon Last: Yeah. I think the. The hackathon is really important for uplifting the general population, but like, if that's the only way you can build new things, you're kind of toast. I mean, it, it has to be like the daily processes, like, you know, building these new things.Um, and it has to be about, I think like, I think in the AI era a lot more leverage accumulates to the most curious and excited people. And so it's like we're all about just like activating that energy. You know, like if someone's protesting something on the weekend that they're excited about and it's important, that should be the main thing that we're doing.Yeah. Um, it's not a hackathon that we schedule once a quarter, it's just like, yeah. Daily process. Part of the culture.[00:16:02] Sarah Sachs: I mean, that's how we shift image generation and notion now. It was always this thing that would be kind of nice to have, but it wasn't really clear where that was necessarily aligned in product priorities.It'd be a lot of work. And we had someone on the database collections team, Jimmy, who was like. I really wanna do image generation for cover photos and inside notion. And we're like, if you wanna build it, like it's, do it please. Like we encourage you. We gave ‘em all the resources of working directly with Gemini and being able to like track the token usage and it working through endpoints.We gave them eval, support, everything, and then became a, a full project.[00:16:34] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:16:35] Sarah Sachs: That's why you can't have like ego as a, a leader. Like that's, that's how we work.[00:16:39] Alsesio: What's the size of the team today, both engineering and overall?[00:16:43] Sarah Sachs: I manage, uh, the team. That's what we'll call it. Core AI capabilities and infrastructure.That's about 50 people. But then we have per i partner teams that do packaging. So how it shows up in the corner chat versus custom agents versus meeting notes, that's another 30, 40 people. And, and then every team that has a product service at Notion that a user can interface with owns the tool that the agent interfaces with the editor team.The team that did CRDT for offline mode is the same team that handles how two agents, um, edit competing blocks. Mm-hmm. Right? It's the same problem. The team that built the underlying SQL engine is the same team that owns how the agent asks it to run a SQL query, and it does it performantly. And so from that regard, anyone working on product engineering is tasked with making them work for customers that are humans and agents because over time the majority of our traffic will be coming from agencies using in our interface, not humans.And so. Our objective is to make it so that the whole product org is building for agents.[00:17:40] Alsesio: Yeah. How has it changed internally? The activation bar is kind of lowered a lot. Like anybody can kind of create a prototype very, somewhat easily, especially if you're like an existing code base. Have you raised the bar on like what type of prototype people need to bring forward to gonna be taken?Not like seriously, but like, you know what I[00:17:58] Simon Last: mean? Yeah. I think the bar is lowered in many ways. Be like, one thing our, uh, our team built that is really cool is our, uh, our, our design team made a whole separate GitHub repo, uh, called the, the design Playground. And it's basically just to create a bunch of like, like helper components and you, uh, for, for quickly a throwing together UIs.And it's become like actually quite sophisticated. Like it has like an agent in there and like, uh, that's pretty fun. So like, we pretty much, like, they don't do mocks, they just make like, like full, full prototypes.[00:18:27] swyx: Here it is. It works.[00:18:28] Simon Last: They give you like a u rl. They're like, okay, all right. So we have to make the, like the real production version of that.Um, and then for engineers. A prototype looks like just making it a feature flag that actually works. Like that's sort of the bar.[00:18:39] Sarah Sachs: Something to understand that's really unique about notion. One of the reasons I joined we're super lucky is no one uses Notion in their job as much as people that work at Notion.[00:18:46] Simon Last: Of course.[00:18:47] Sarah Sachs: So I think there's very few companies, maybe if you worked on Chrome I guess, but like everything that we ship, we ship internally first and get a lot of really quick feedback. And also sometimes our dev instance is totally borked and you have to change a bunch of flags to get things done. And that's kind of like, but everyone, so people that do it ticketing, people that do supply chain procurement, recruiting, everyone is using the same instance of notion with like a lot of flags on for these prototypes people build.Um, and so we have this, Brian Levin, one of the designers on our team, I think evangelize this concept of demos over memos.[00:19:18] swyx: Ooh, too[00:19:20] Sarah Sachs: good. Um, which has been, uh, very good for building demos, and I think it's put a big pressure point on us to have really strong product conviction, because if anything can be demoed, you really need a strong filter of making sure that if you know, you're doing X amount of work, you're making the, you're, you're focusing on one tower, you're not just building a really flat hill.Right. That's actually where I think there has to be more conviction from our PMs, um, and our designers and, and well, the company really to have conviction of what journey we're going on.[00:19:52] Simon Last: But overall, I feel like it works pretty well. Like people, almost all the engineers have good enough taste to realize that like, this prototype doesn't actually make sense in the product, or, or it does.So it's not that common that I would see a prototype. It's like, oh, this makes no sense. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, people are doing reasonable things and, and, and then it's just a matter of. Which things we build first and then often just, just figuring out how to turn it on and off. There's our, in the, in our like experimental chat ui, there's this, there's probably like, like a hundred check boxes in there.[00:20:22] Sarah Sachs: Kills me[00:20:23] Simon Last: the things you could turn on and off.[00:20:25] Sarah Sachs: Uh, but I think that, okay, so that is kind of true, Simon, but like being the person that manages the evals team, like there is a level of intensity that it adds to the platform team. So, you know, if we're gonna do image generation and notion, all of a sudden the way that we do attachments and the way that we, um, our LLM completion like cortex talks and expects tokens back and now it's getting images back.Like there's a lot of platform work that we do need to, like solidify a little bit. So sometimes it'll be in dev for a couple weeks before it makes it to prod just because we still have to like, make it robust, make it HIPAA compliant, ZDR compliant, figure out the right contracting with the vendor, whatever it is.And we need to eval it because we want the team. To still maintain what they build. That's the one thing is like if we have a bunch of prototypes, it can't just be like a small group of people that then maintain whatever end prototypes. So we have invested a lot of people in an eval and model behavior understanding teams that, we call it agent dev velocity.So your dev velocity building agents can be faster if we invest in that platform. And so we have a whole org dedicated to Asian, um, platform velocity so that you can build your own eval and then maintain it once you ship it. So if a new model release comes out and we, every[00:21:38] swyx: team maintains their own eval,[00:21:40] Sarah Sachs: we maintain the eval framework.Every team owns their own evals and a lot of them we've integrated to Optin, to ci, or we run them nightly and we have a team, uh, a custom agent that triggers to a team to look at the major failures. That's really critical because if we have like all these different surfaces now, a lot of it's on the same agent harness, so it's easier to maintain.It's just packaging of different agent harnesses, but new functionality of the agent. Let's say that like we wanna update like. Uh, you know, they deprecated, sonnet, um, four or whatever it is and we need to auto update. Are[00:22:11] swyx: they already? That's so, okay. Yeah. Actually wasn't that long ago.[00:22:14] Alsesio: Theywere[00:22:14] Alsesio: just 3.5.[00:22:15] Sarah Sachs: 3.537. Just got deprecated.[00:22:18] swyx: 3 7, 5 0.2 or, yeah. No,[00:22:20] Sarah Sachs: it's not. 5.2 is five point. Five point no. Yeah, five four is 40% more expensive than five two. So if they deprecated five two, you would hear they can, you would hear from me about that one. Um, but, uh, another conversation to have.[00:22:35] swyx: I have a cheeky evals question for you.Have you noticed any secret degradation from any of the major model providers?[00:22:40] Sarah Sachs: Secret degradation,[00:22:42] swyx: like. During the War Bay, when it's high traffic, it suddenly gets dumber.[00:22:47] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. I mean, not just between the, I mean, we definitely notice flakiness, we've definitely noticed, particularly for some providers, that things are slower during working hours and[00:22:57] swyx: there's a latency argument.Yes. Not a quality argument.[00:22:59] Sarah Sachs: No. I think the quality difference that's interesting is, um, even though companies that say they're selling the same, a, it's really into like quanti quantization, but like companies that say they're selling the same model through different vendors, whether it be through first party or Bedrock, Azure, et cetera.We do see different qualities sometimes, and that's not necessarily what's advertised.[00:23:21] swyx: Yeah. Kidney went to the point of like, if we, they shipped like this, like eval across all the providers and it was like very obvious we were secret equalizing and it was very,[00:23:28] Sarah Sachs: yeah. But[00:23:29] swyx: that's very embarrassing.[00:23:30] Sarah Sachs: You know, um, we hire Subprocess to figure that out for us.So we just wanna understand where it's regressing or where it's optimized. And sometimes we're okay with regressions that optimize latency if they're the appropriate regressions. Our job is to make sure we have the evals to understand the changes that are important to us. And even like when we're partnering with labs on pre-releasees of models, they'll send us multiple snapshots.And this is less about quantization, but more just regressions. Like they have shipped models that were not the snapshots that we wanted, and they have changed the snapshots that they shipped based on the feedback that we give. Because our feedback tends to be more enterprise work focused and not coding agent focused.And definitely those can be bummers, like, you know, uh, we know that this wasn't the version you wanted, but we'll help you make it work. I mean, we always make it work, but that definitely happens.[00:24:16] Alsesio: Yeah. Do you have, um, failing evals that you're just hoping, oh, that will have success eventually when a good model comes out?[00:24:23] Sarah Sachs: Uh, I mean, yeah. So I think. I mean, I could talk about this for 60 minutes, so I will limit myself. I think it's a real issue when people say evals and it's just like, that's quality, that's like unit, I mean, it's like saying testing. It's not just unit tests, right? So. We have the equivalent of unit test.Regression test. Those live in ci, those have to pass a certain percent, you know, within some stochastic error rate. Then we have, as you're building a product, evals of these aren't passing right now, and this is launch quality. So we have a report card and we need to, on these categories, you know, be it 80 or 90% of all of these user journeys to launch, and then what we have what we call frontier or headroom evals, where we actively wanna be at 30% pass rate.And that's actually been a effort that we took in partnership with philanthropic and OpenAI in the past maybe two or three months, because we actually hit a point where our evals were saturated and we weren't able to really give insightful feedback other than it wasn't worse. And not only is that not helpful for our partners, it's not helpful for us to understand where the stream is going.You know, going back to that analogy. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about. What notions last exam looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Not just humanities, last exam. Ooh, notions last exam. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a lot of, you know, dreams about what that would look like. I know we've talked a lot about benchmarking, um, swix, but, uh, yeah.Notions last exam is a big thing inside the company and we have people, full-time staff to it exclusively. Mm. We have a data scientist, a model behavior engineer, and an full-time, um, evals engineer just dedicated to the evals that we pass 30% of the time.[00:25:56] swyx: What you're hiring for[00:25:57] Sarah Sachs: MBEs? I am hiring[00:25:58] swyx: What is an MBEA[00:25:59] Sarah Sachs: model?Behavior Engineer Model. Behavior engineers started with a title data specialist before I joined when they were working with Simon on like, uh, Google Sheets and like Simon just needed someone to look through Google Sheets and say, yes, no, this looks bad. This looks good. Right? And so we hired people with kind of diverse linguistics background.We had like a linguistics PhD dropout. Mm-hmm. And a Stanford ate new grad. And they're amazing. And they formed a new function basically. And over time we've built a whole team, um, with a manager who's now kind of reinventing what that role is with coding agents. So they used to be kind of manually inspecting code.Now they're primarily building agents that can write evals for themselves or LLM judges. There's a really funny day I can send you the picture where Simon, about a year and a half ago, was teaching them how to use GitHub. Um, and they're on the whiteboard and it was like, okay, I think it would be so much faster if our data specialists learned how to use GitHub and like learned how to commit these things in Dakota.And, and that was then and now I think, you know, coding has been a lot more accessible. Um, but moving forward it's this mix of like data scientist PM and prompt engineer because there's craft in understanding like even like what models can and can't do things. How do we define like that headroom? How do we define like what a good journey is?Um, is this model better or not? Why is this failing? There's some qualitative work, but then there's also like a lot of instinct and taste to it, and that's not necessarily software engineering. And so we have like very firm conviction and we have had for a number of years now that that is its own career path and we have always welcomed the misfits, so to speak.So we really firmly believe that you don't need an engineering background to be the best at this job. And that's what's quite unique about this particular role.[00:27:37] Simon Last: Yeah, this is something that I've been pretty excited about recently is we made an effort basically to treat the eval system as like an agent harness.So if you think about it, like, you know, you should be able to have an agent end-to-end, download a dataset, run an eval, iterate on a failure, debug, and, and then implement a fix. And ultimately you should be able to, you know, drive the full time process with a human sort of observing the, you know, the outer uh, system.So yeah, we went, went pretty hard on that. And that's, that's worked extremely well so far. It's like basically just to turn it into a coding agent, uh, uh, problem.[00:28:11] swyx: Your coding agent or just whatever[00:28:13] Simon Last: harness No coding agent. Yeah, code, cloud code. It should be totally general. Yeah. I think if it would be a mistake to like, like fix it on any, any particular coding agent.At the end of the day, it's just like CLI tools.[00:28:21] Sarah Sachs: It's like the same way that you would've a coding agent write the unit test. You should have a coding agent write the eval.[00:28:26] swyx: Yeah.[00:28:26] Sarah Sachs: But there's a lot of supervision in that still. We just don't believe that supervision has to come from software engineers because a lot of it is like, um, kind of you XREE and whatever, and these are the people that also triage failures and tell us where we should be investing next.[00:28:40] swyx: Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and ask a spicy question. Is there a data, there are no software engineers at Notion.[00:28:46] Simon Last: Um,[00:28:46] Sarah Sachs: what does it mean to be a software engineer?[00:28:47] swyx: Exactly.[00:28:48] Simon Last: I mean, I think the way things are going is like we're on some continuum where. If, if you look back three years ago, humans were typing all the code and then we had auto complete, you're typing list of the code.Then we had sort of like filling agents, filling lines, and now we're getting into like agents doing longer range tasks where you can debug and implement a fix and then verify it works and you know, get your, get your PR even like, like Merion deployed. I think we're sort of just moving up the abstraction ladder and then the human role becomes more about observing and maintaining the outer system.There's a string of agents flowing through, like me prs what's going off the rails. Like what do I need to approve? Is there like a learning or memory mechanism that that works? So it's kind of a hard engineering problem. There's a, you know, there's, there's a lot to do there. I think we're just sort of moving up stack[00:29:34] Sarah Sachs: the same transition machine learning engineers have made, right?Like I haven't looked at a PR curve in a while.[00:29:39] swyx: Yeah. You used to do this stuff and now, um, auto research can do it,[00:29:42] Sarah Sachs: right? Like I think it depends on what you define as a software engineer.[00:29:46] swyx: Yes. It's, that's changing for sure.[00:29:49] Sarah Sachs: I think every software engineer in notion this summer went through like this, um, sheer, um, one of our engineering leads of the company called it, like every software engineer is going through the, the, uh, identity crisis that every manager goes through, where all of a sudden they realize their ability to write code is less important than their ability to delegate in context switch.And I think that is a transition out of being a software engineer. But[00:30:12] Simon Last: yeah. Yeah, there's a critical difference to being a manager, which is that like, it is actually very deeply technical. The problem, you know, humans are very like, like, like fuzzy and you can't like treat a team of humans like a, like a rigorous system where like, you know, prs like, like flow through and can be in like a block status and then what happens when they're blocked, right.With a set of agents, you actually can do that. And, and, and I think it's actually, there's a lot of interesting technical rigor that that goes into that it's like it's a technical design problem. Ultimately.[00:30:42] Alsesio: What is the design of the software factory that you're building?[00:30:46] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think we're. Trying a lot of different things.I mean, ultimately you want to design a system that requires as little human intervention as possible, but like still maintaining the in variance that, that you care about. So yeah, we're exploring a lot different ideas there. I mean, I think I could talk about a few things I think are important there.Like, one thing I think is really important is, um, having some kind of like specification layer you can just commit marked on files. Mm-hmm. That works pretty well, but[00:31:15] swyx: it's nice to be notion man. I'm just saying like the spec, like Yeah. The natural home for specs is notion.[00:31:21] Simon Last: Yeah. Right. It can be a database of pages.Yeah. I mean, it needs to be something that is, you know, human readable and I viewable and I think that's pretty key. Another really key component is like the, the self verification loop. Yes. You need really, really good testing layers, basically. And that's a really deep, uh, uh, problem. But by getting that right, you know, and then, and then it's kinda like the workflow of like.What happens when there's a bug? How does it flow into the system? Like, is it like a subagent working on it? How does it make a PR and how does that get reviewed? And me, and then, you know, so there's like the, the flow or process.[00:31:56] swyx: Yeah. Cool. Uh, you know, one thing we did work out before you guys came in was this demo or this[00:32:01] Simon Last: agents[00:32:02] swyx: agent demo.Uh,[00:32:03] Simon Last: so every,[00:32:04] Alsesio: every time we do an episode, we try the product. Right. I don't think there's ever been an episode that I haven't tried. Yeah. Um,[00:32:11] swyx: and we, we try, try is a, a big word. Like since day one lane space has been on Notion, but this is the, this is the net new thing. Yes.[00:32:18] Alsesio: So this is for Nel Labs, which is the space we're in.So next week we're opening applications for tenants. So there's a web form, let me, we got this form done here. Uh, so, uh, before. Uh, the workflow would be I get an email, then I look at the person. It was like, should I spend time talking to this person? Then I respond, they respond back. So I build this. So the name it came up for on its own.Can you maybe h how do, how does it come up with its own name?[00:32:43] Simon Last: Yeah, that's a pretty app name. It's, it, it is just a random, it's a random, a name generator.[00:32:47] Alsesio: Oh, that's funny. It just came,[00:32:49] Simon Last: the fact that it picked that is, is kind of hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's just determined,[00:32:54] Sarah Sachs: resilient collector. I, I think I've never looked at the code for that.I've never second guessed it. I think it's kind of like a madlib situation.[00:33:00] Simon Last: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. It's, it's totally a, a deterministic. Oh, I thought it was great. Yes. Although, although when the, if you use the AI to set itself up, it can update its own name, so. Okay. Um,[00:33:11] Sarah Sachs: how did you create it? It, did you just do[00:33:12] Alsesio: classroom?I,[00:33:13] Sarah Sachs: okay.[00:33:13] Alsesio: I did, yeah. I'll say just check my inbox for applications for a coworking space. Keep a people, so it created the database for me. Which I have here. And I guess database is like an notion table because everything is notion. Um, and then whenever um, an email comes in, like here, it just creates a new role for the person.Mm-hmm. And then it uses web search to enrich the mm-hmm. The profile. So it kind of like searches the web and it's like, this is who this person is, this is when they say they wanna move in and kind of updates everything else. This is, I mean, it's not a GI, but to me, I don't wanna do this work. So it feels like, I mean, it took me maybe like 15 minutes to set up the whole thing.Um, and I really like that most of the information should live here. You know, it is not like some other tool asking me[00:34:01] Sarah Sachs: Yeah.[00:34:01] Alsesio: To like, bring my stuff there. It's like I would've probably already created an ocean thing.[00:34:06] Sarah Sachs: Mm-hmm.[00:34:06] Alsesio: So[00:34:07] Sarah Sachs: most of our biggest use cases and gains are from. That extra layer of human involvement in the process to make it so right.And so like one of our biggest use cases is bug triaging. So if someone posts something in Slack, can you just have a custom agent that lives there that has its own routing constitution of what team this belongs to, creates a task in your task database and then posts in that Slack channel, right? Like that's like one of the first things that we built internally, I think.And it's completely changed the way that notion functions as a company. Nothing falls through, well, most things don't fall through the crack. We don't know what we don't know. But it's not replacing people, it's replacing processes.[00:34:44] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:34:44] Sarah Sachs: Right.[00:34:45] Alsesio: And I'm curious how you think about composability of these things.So the other one I was working on is like a. These filler. So whenever somebody signs up as a tenant, kind of he'll sell the lease for them. There should probably some agent that is like office manager agent mm-hmm. That can handle the request, make the lease, and then, uh, give them a ADA access to the office and all of that.How do you think about that feature?[00:35:08] Simon Last: Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's two ways you can compose. One way is by using like the data primitives. So you can, you know, you, you could give, you have one agent, uh, be writing to the database and there's another agent that's walked in the database. So that's, that's one way that they, they can coordinate that's like a little bit more decoupled and mm-hmm.Works really well. Or you, you can couple them. So I, I think it's actually not released yet. Releasing it like next week is, uh, in the settings for an agent, you can give access to invoke any other agent.[00:35:34] swyx: Hmm.[00:35:34] Simon Last: So you can have them just. Just, uh, uh, talk directly. So[00:35:37] swyx: you, was there a limit on like, number of recursions or just,[00:35:40] Simon Last: um, probably,[00:35:42] swyx: you know what I mean?Like, you can just get an infinite loop that way there's[00:35:45] Simon Last: some kind of Yeah,[00:35:46] Sarah Sachs: I think it's, there is actually a number somewhere.[00:35:49] swyx: I believe I'm just, you know, like, you're, you're, someone's gonna screw up. You[00:35:51] Simon Last: should you try to see[00:35:53] swyx: Yeah. I mean, everything's gonna be paperclips.[00:35:55] Simon Last: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, but that's really useful.Yeah. So we, you know, like I just, I, I helped, uh, someone internally the other day, they had, they had built like over 30 custom agents for, uh, for our go to market team doing all kinds of different things. You know, for example, like researching, you know, like, like filling information about, about a customer or like, like triaging customer feedback or like, uh, something like that.Literally over 30 of them. And, and then he, and then he even made like a database of all the agents and then he is like, okay, and, and now I'm getting 70, over 70 notifications per day with just the agents are blocked on various things. Uh, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, the obvious thing to do there is to make a manager agent,[00:36:32] Sarah Sachs: right?[00:36:33] Simon Last: That's gonna sort of blocks be another abstraction layer in between your, your, uh, uh, 30 agents. Uh, so yeah, we, we send out with like a manager agent and then has access to invoke all the other agents and it's sort of like, like watching and observing them and then it sort of, it just creates a layer of abstraction.So instead of 70 notifications per day, it's like, like five. And then, and then the manager agent can help like, uh, debug and fix any problems with the,[00:36:54] swyx: does this is a concept of like an inbox or something like piece, you're basically saying that they can message each other?[00:37:00] Simon Last: Yeah.[00:37:01] Sarah Sachs: Well[00:37:01] swyx: they use the system of record, which, which is[00:37:02] Sarah Sachs: notion, so we[00:37:03] Simon Last: actually, yeah, we didn't make any special concepts at all.[00:37:06] swyx: They're interested to the motion notifications that I would've got,[00:37:09] Sarah Sachs: they can just like write a task to a database that the other agent's task to listening to, or they can actually call a web book to the agent, like they can just add the agent. Okay.[00:37:17] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, this is something that, that we're still working on.I, I think we, you know, like, like generally, generally the way we do these things is, you know, you first make it possible, maybe like a sort of janky way. So I, I, I think the way I set ‘em up is like, you know, we created like a new database that was sort of like issues mm-hmm. That the custom agents were, were experiencing, and then gave them all access to file an issue and then the manager has access to, to read the issues.Um, and that works pretty well, essentially like, like give it its own like internal issue tracker just for the agents. And then, you know, if that becomes a, a concept that seems useful, generally maybe we will think of how to package it in. But I mean, generally we try to just keep it to composing the primitive if we can.You know, another example of this is we have no built-in memory concept. Memory is, is just pages and databases. And so if you wanna give a memory, just give it a page and give it. Edit access to that page and the[00:38:03] swyx: human can edit it. Agent can edit[00:38:04] Simon Last: it. Yeah. And so that works, that pattern works extremely well on it.And you know, depending this case, you can have it be just a page or it could be an entire database with, you know, or, you know, I can have sub pages is is pretty on what you can do with that.[00:38:15] Alsesio: So when I was setting this up, uh, I connected my inbox and it was like, do you wanna use Gmail or Notion Mail? And I'm like, I don't wanna use Eater, I just want you to do it.I'm curious how you think about, you know, notion, mail, notion, calendar, all of these kind of ui ux interfaces, full stack[00:38:29] Simon Last: notion.[00:38:30] Alsesio: Yeah. When like at the same time you have the agents abstracting them away from you in a way, you know, how do you spend like the product calories so to speak?[00:38:37] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty important that you don't have to use, not your mail to connect to the mail capability.So we can just connect to Gmail or, or whatever you want, uh, to use. And we're thinking of the mail service as being really great to the extent that it's really agent built, right? So maybe the mail app is just sort of a prepackaged agent that helps you automate your, your inbox.[00:39:00] Alsesio: Yeah, the auto labeling is great.Think[00:39:03] Sarah Sachs: the, when we, um, integrate with Gmail for instance, we have a series of tools available that are available via MCP or API to Gmail. When we integrate with Notion Mail, we have the Notion Mail engineering team to build us the, um, exact right tools that optimize latency, optimize performance and quality.They own that quality. Um, there's product leads there. They're directly thinking about the user problems that happen in mail. So it tends to be when we build integrations and connections, we build natively first. Um, and then think about, um, extending them generally just because it's also easier. Mm-hmm. Um, um, to build natively first.Um, so that tends to be how we phase things out.[00:39:43] swyx: Talking about integrations, you prompted me, so I gotta ask. M-C-P-C-L-I. What's going on? What's the[00:39:48] Simon Last: Yeah. Opinion. I think, I mean, I'm, I'm definitely bullish and excited about cli. I think there's a few really cool things about cli. So one really cool thing is like, um, is that it's in the terminal environment, so it gets a bunch of extra power.So it, you know, for example, it can like, like paginating and cursor through like long outputs. Um, and it has a progressive disclosure inherently. Uh, so, you know, you don't see all the tools at once. It's just, you see the CLI wrapper and you can like use the, the help commands and, and, and read files. And then I think the most important thing that's, that's super cool is that there, it's also inherently a, a bootstrapped.So if there's an issue, uh, the agent can debug and fix itself within the same environment that it uses the tool.[00:40:30] swyx: Mm.[00:40:30] Simon Last: Right. Like, you know, I think I saw a tweet this morning. Someone said, you know, my agent didn't have a browser, so I asked it to make all a browser tool and within a hundred lines of code, it gave itself a little browser, like, like wrapping the, the, the chromium API, um.That's pretty incredible. And then if there was a bug, it would just immediately try to fix it. Mm-hmm. Right. On the other hand, if you use an, you know, if you use like of, of the Chrome dev tools, MCP, I've had this issue where like, like sometimes the transport gets like messed up. If it gets messed up, the agent has no way to fix itself.It, it no longer has a browser, it's, it's not broken. Right. I think that's, that's pretty fundamental, but I would say like a lot of the, the bad things about it can be fixed. Uh, so I think like, as a progressive disclosure, that can be fixed with, with right harness. Like, it, it obviously doesn't make sense to show it all the tools all the time.That's not really inherent to the MCP protocol. It's just like how you wrap it and use it.[00:41:16] swyx: There's many poorly built MCPs because we didn't know.[00:41:19] Simon Last: Yeah, yeah. I mean it was just early, like, like the obvious thing is, uh, you know, to start with is, is to just show it all the tools and it's like, okay, now we have a hundred tools.Yeah. And like the tool calling actually works. So let's of[00:41:28] swyx: your success[00:41:29] Simon Last: give it a way to like, like filter to source the tools. So yeah, I would say like broadly speaking, I'm really bullish on cli. I'm still bullish on CPS and in a certain environment. I think in, in particular, CP is really great for when you want sort of like a narrow, lightweight agent.I think there's, there's definitely a lot of use cases where, where you don't want like a full coding agent with a compute run time. And also you want it to be like more tightly permissioned. MCP inherently has a really strong permission model, like all you can do is call the tools. A CLI is a little bit murkier.It's like, can I access the, if PI token are you, like, properly sort of like re-encrypt the token so it can't like exfiltrate it, it introduce a lot of like, like new issues, which are. Real and hard to solve. And MCP is just like the dumb simple thing that works and it that it's pretty good.[00:42:12] Sarah Sachs: I'll add two more perspectives, not from it working well for Notion, but how notion like commits to both platforms.Notion is dedicated to being the best system of record for where people do their enterprise work. So we will always support our MCP and so far as other people are using cps, right? So regardless of our perspective, we've put a lot of effort into our MCP and we have a fantastic team that we're building, um, to do more there.And the second thing I'll say, I think, um, we all think a lot, but lately I've been thinking a lot about making sure there's a value alignment and pricing, um, with capability.[00:42:43] swyx: Literally our next question[00:42:44] Sarah Sachs: and. Needing language to execute deterministic tasks feels wasteful and requiring on a language model to interface with third party providers seems wasteful for tasks that don't require it.And particularly because our custom agents are using usage-based pricing. We think of pricing as like the barrier of entry for use of our product, and we're quite committed to making sure that it's not wasteful. Um, not just because it's a bad deal for our customers, but it's also bad business. We wanna have as many buyers, like there's a, there's an elasticity of demand and so if we can have our agents properly execute code that calls on CLI deterministically, it's a one-time cost, right?Versus constantly having a language model integrate with an MCP over and over and over and paying those like repeated token fees and it's happening outside the cash window, then you're paying for it over and over and over and it's just kind of unnecessary and less deterministic when it doesn't have to be.[00:43:36] Alessio: Yeah, the open-endedness I think is like, the main thing is like, well, if I go write code to just call an API, I would never use an MCP. But then you need an NCP sometimes when you know what to call, but you don't want it to restart versus like, I think the it built a browser from scratch is like, it's great when you're doing it on your own, but like if your customers were having your AI write a browser from scratch every time and you had to pay the token cost of that, yeah.You'd be like, no, no. The Chrome dev tools CP is actually pretty great. Just use that. I'm curious, how do you make that decision? Like should it be. Just straight API call very narrow. Should it be an MCP? Should it be super open-ended?[00:44:10] Sarah Sachs: Do you mean for when we ship notion capabilities or when we add capabilities to[00:44:13] Alessio: notion[00:44:14] Sarah Sachs: AI or,[00:44:14] Alessio: I mean, you might have a capability that the only way to do is an open-ended agent, like an agent with a coding sandbox.[00:44:21] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. In Notion ai they're not explicit, not We also ship an MCP.[00:44:24] Alsesio: Yeah. Yeah. In B,[00:44:25] Sarah Sachs: yeah.[00:44:26] Alsesio: Internally. Okay. Like is there ever a discussion of like, we're not gonna ship it because we're not able to tie it down? Or are you happy to just like,[00:44:33] Sarah Sachs: um, no. I mean, there are a lot of things where we choose not to use MCP because we wanna add more high touch to quality.I think search an agent to find is like the largest instance of that, where we have. Um, slack and linear and Jira search and notion that is not using necessarily the search MCP functionality that is provided by those companies. And that's because it's quite critical we think, to how our agent trajectories work is for us to have a little bit more control on the functionality of the search journey.And so it usually comes from quality and there's a long tail of things and that's why we built an MCP client or an MCP server, excuse me, so that people can connect whatever they want. There's that long tail, right. But we, for search particularly, I would say that's like the primary entry point, but there are other connections as well that it's a little bit of secret sauce a
The NBA play-in games are here, which means The Dance NBA Playoff Best Ball contest is about to lock. Pete, Nez, and Jon are getting their houses in order with two hoops heads. Mike Zakarian joins in the first half to break down his latest strategy for navigating the contest, followed by Scott Blumstein, who won the Dance two years ago. Join our NBA bracket challenge on Underdog.☕ Become a "Best Ball Value Hounds" Youtube member for access to weekly DFS After Dark shows & a private DFS Discord channel
Retired Steelers Linebacker, Arthur Moats, is joined by Dr. TaNeisha from @ReallyFlawed & the Emmy Award Winning WRAL Channel 5 Producer in Raleigh, NC, Mark Bergin, to discuss Travis Hunter transitioning to only DB in 2026 and the impact of that, along with what is more important between positional value or talent when it comes to the NFL Draft!
Brandon & Jason wrap up their 2026 NFL Draft coverage by discussing their final pre-draft Top 10 rookie positional ranks. To support the podcast and learn more about becoming a NFL DRAFT BIG BOARDS subscriber visit https://www.nfldraftbigboards.com
What if thriving as a leader requires civic responsibility, not just career success? On today's episode, Brittany N. Cole sits down with Tequila Johnson, founder of The Equity Alliance, global speaker, civic strategist, and Harvard-certified power-building leader, to unpack the intersection of business, politics, power, and purpose. From registering 80,000 Black voters to building a multi-entity organization focused on cultural, economic, and political power, Tequila breaks down what civic engagement really means and why corporate leaders, entrepreneurs, and working professionals can no longer afford to stay disengaged. This conversation explores how power is truly defined by control of resources rather than position, breaking down the role of lobbying in shaping policy and protecting interests, and why many middle-class professionals are pushing back against broken systems. It unpacks the difference between positional and influential power, reframes leadership branding as belief rather than aesthetics, and highlights the importance of radical authenticity during periods of transformation. It also examines how community power is built through economic leverage and what corporate leadership must look like in this new era of heightened civic accountability. Brittany also brings clarity to how leadership branding, identity alignment, and courageous visibility are required for leaders stepping into their next season. If you are a corporate executive, entrepreneur, civic leader, or ambitious professional navigating influence and impact, this episode will challenge how you think about power, engagement, and leadership responsibility. Thriving is not just about scaling your success.It is about understanding your influence and using it intentionally. KEY POINTS: - Civic engagement is a leadership competency - Power is the ability to control valuable resources - If you are not organizing your influence, someone else is - Corporations are talking politics whether you are or not - Lobbying is strategic advocacy - Positional power versus influential power - Why authenticity is power when fully owned - Accepting evolution as part of leadership growth - Leadership branding is a belief expressed consistently - Building power requires listening first - The Renaissance era of corporate accountability - Diversification of dollars and diversification of identity - Aligning ambition with purpose - Community engagement beyond photo ops QUOTES: “Power in its essence is really your ability to control the value of resources.” — Tequila Johnson “If we aren't thinking about what our people need and what we value, then we're not really building power. We're building a facade.” — Tequila Johnson “Before you can put anything on, you have to see yourself, accept yourself, and say it.” — Brittany Cole “Authenticity is recognizing the power you have and being able to stand firmly in that power and own that position.” — Tequila Johnson “Sometimes it is an intentional strategy to keep you civically disengaged.” — Brittany Cole “We voted against the system because it's not working.” — Tequila Johnson “Before you can put anything on, you have to see yourself, accept yourself, and say it.” — Brittany Cole GUEST RESOURCES Tequila Johnson Website | theequityalliance.org RESOURCES Take the Leadership Brand Score Assessment How strong is your leadership brand? Take this free 3-minute assessment and get an instant score on your impact, your visibility, and the gap between the two. That gap is where your influence and your income are hiding. → scoremyleadershipbrand.com Join Leadership Brand Class Every Tuesday, Brittany teaches a free live class on leadership branding, helping you close the gap between the impact you're making and how visible that impact actually is. Whether you're an executive, entrepreneur, or emerging leader, this class will change how you think about your leadership. → leadershipbrandclass.com Love what you're hearing? Follow Brittany N. Cole & The Career Thrivers Podcast to share the love! Work with Brittany at Career Thrivers IG | @CareerThrivers Brittany N. Cole IG | @BrittanyNCole LinkedIn | @BrittanyNCole Let's Thrive Together is produced by EPYC Media Network
Intro – 0:00 Eric Ebron & Shaq Leonard – 1:17 Positional Mock – 10:54 Twitter Questions – 26:35 Support the show: https://1075thefan.com/kevin-bowen/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A digital show and podcast featuring NFL free agent and college prospect breakdowns by NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell, co-host of ESPN's "NFL Matchup Show." #PhiladelphiaEagles #flyeaglesfly #kenyonsadiq #elistowers #maxklare #samroush #nfl #nfldraft In this episode, Cosell gives his comprehensive tape breakdown of NFL Draft prospects by position, continuing with TEs. Breakdowns include Kenyon Sadiq, Eli Stowers, Max Klare, Sam Roush and others.► Subscribe to our Patreon Channel for exclusive information not seen or heard anywhere else and become among smartest Birds fans out there (just ask our members!!) + get all of our shows commercial free and a lot more!!:https://www.patreon.com/insidethebirds►Support our sponsors!!► Simpli Safe Home Alert System: https://simplisafe.com/BIRDS for 60% OFF!► Camden Apothecary: https://camdenapothecary.com/Follow the Hosts!► Follow our Podcast on Twitter: https://twitter.com/InsideBirds► Follow Geoff Mosher on Twitter: https://twitter.com/geoffpmosher► Follow Adam Caplan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/caplannflNFL insider veterans take an in-depth look that no other show can offer! Be sure to subscribe to stay up to date with the latest news, rumors, and discussions.► Sign up for our newsletter! • Visit http://eepurl.com/hZU4_n.For more, be sure to check out our official website: https://www.insidethebirds.com.
Scott Mason talks with Marcus Johnson of Silver and Black Pride and Tape Don't Lie about the Raiders tenure of OL Dylan Parham! Marcus discusses: -Thoughts on Parham when he was drafted -A season by season review of his contributions -Positional flexibility and durability -Was Parham a good signing for the Jets? And much more! Check out the Play Like A Jet store and get your "Play Like A Jet" logo shirt RIGHT NOW! Hoodies, hats, mugs, etc.....also available! https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/19770068-play-like-a-jet-logo-shirt?store_id=717242 To advertise on Play Like A Jet, please contact: Justin@Brokencontrollermedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks provide insight into the specific positional traits they evaluate in NFL draft prospects. From notes on a wide receiver's physical tools to a safety's communication habits, the Move the Sticks duo applies decades of scouting experience to a deep and intriguing 2026 NFL draft class.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
March 27, 2026 - Season 16, Episode 112 of The Terrible Podcast is now in the can. In this Friday morning show, Alex Kozora and I get right into discussing the recent pro days conducted by Ohio State and Alabama and how neither Pittsburgh Steelers GM Omar Khan nor HC Mike McCarthy were present for either of them. We also talk about how Khan and McCarthy have only really attended one pro day outside of Pittsburgh this offseason and how not very many positional coaches have been spotted on the road these last several weeks. Alex and I discuss how we will likely need to rely heavily on the pre-draft visits the Steelers conduct this offseason when it comes to figuring out several potential selections this year. We also wonder if the new Steelers pre-draft process might become the new normal moving forward. Moving forward from our discussions about the Steelers' pre-draft process this offseason, Alex and I have several conversations that are centered around the wide receiver position, both globally and related to the Steelers. We discuss positional value when it comes to first round wide receivers and specifically as it relates to drafts dating back to 2016. We go over the compact list of elite and exceptionally good wide receivers that were selected in the first-round dating back to 2016. We move forward to discuss this year's wide receiver draft class as it relates to the Steelers and which players might be worthy of a first round selection, and specifically at 21st overall. Is former Indiana WR Omar Cooper Jr. a bona fide first rounder? Does he exit college as a gamechanger at the wide receiver position? Alex and I discuss several key advanced analytics when it comes to this year's wide receiver draft class and that includes us going over yards per routes run, drops, and much more. Can the Steelers get the proper usage and production out of a first round wide receiver this year on the heels of the team trading for WR Michael Pittman Jr. this offseason? How much does the decision of QB Aaron Rodgers play into answering that question? We discuss those two questions during this show. Is guard the easiest position for the Steelers to address in the first round this year when it comes to value and rookie year production and playing time? We address that question in this show. Alex recently wrote about empty routes by wide receivers in Pittsburgh during the last several seasons, so we make sure to review that post along with his findings and takeaways. This 99-minute episode also discusses several other minor topics not noted in the above recap and we end this show by answering several emails we received from listeners. steelersdepot.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Draft season on the Sea Hawkers Podcast is kicking off with Coach DC (All 22 NFL Films) to showcase Draft Signal Pro, a collaborative draft preview site built for easy navigation, player profiles, and film links. What are the key needs and realistic targets around picks 32, 64, and 96? We start the discussion at cornerback before taking a look at edge defenders. As we shift to the offensive side of the ball, we start with running back considering Kenneth Walker's departure and Zach Charbonnet's injury. Can the Seahawks find another starter on the offensive line? We talk about some options at guard who could help Seattle improve both in the run and passing game. Support the show Get in the Flock! Visit GetInTheFlock.com Or visit our website for other ways to support the show Subscribe via: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | YouTube | TuneIn | RSS Follow us on: Facebook | Twitter Listen on our free app for Android, iOS, Kindle or Windows Phone/PC Call or text: 253-235-9041 Find Sea Hawkers clubs around the world at SeaHawkers.org Music from the show by The 12 Train, download each track at ReverbNation
March 19: Matthew (@MatthewBerryTMR), Jay (@croucherJD), Connor (@ConnorJRogers) and Lawrence (@LordDontLose) break down the Broncos trading for Jaylen Waddle and the Chiefs bringing in Justin Fields before highlighting free agency deals for Dallas Goedert, Rachaad White, Keaton Mitchell, and Christian Kirk. The group also dig into Connor’s 2026 draft prospect rankings, analyzing Fernando Mendoza, Jeremiyah Love, and Jordyn Tyson. Along the way they ponder how Matthew can find a better connection from his Florida home and predict who will select Jeremiyah Love. (1:40) – Matthew explains his rooting interests in the NCAA Tournament (4:15) – Rotoworld Player News: Broncos trade for Jaylen Waddle, Chiefs acquire Justin Fields from Jets, Eagles bring back Dallas Goedert and bring in Hollywood Brown (19:10) – More News & Notes: Commanders add Rachaad White and Jerome Ford, Chargers sign Keaton Mitchell, Titans restructure Calvin Ridley’s deal, Giants sign Darnell Mooney, 49ers add Christian Kirk (28:30) – Connor’s Top 10 Rookie QBs and RBs: Fernando Mendoza, Jeremiyah Love, Jadarian Price (43:00) – Connor’s Top 10 Rookie WRs and TEs: Jordyn Tyson, Carnell Tate, Chris Bell, KC Conception, Kenyon Sadiq, Eli Stowers (49:15) – Last Call: Which team will draft Jeremiyah Love?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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