Real Leaders

Welcome to the first episode of a special new focus for the HeySue Podcast: the Never Ask for the Sale Series. These new episodes are inspired by the September 2025 launch of Sue Heilbronner's newest book, Never Ask for the Sale: Supercharge Your Business with the Power of Passionate Ambivalence. Never Ask is based on the philosophy or sales technique Sue calls “passionate ambivalence,” the freedom to be as passionate as you are about a possible sale and equally unattached to whether you close any specific business. Sue argues in Never Ask that executing on this mindset will propel the success of solopreneurs, startup founders, service providers, company account executives, and anyone who is selling or influencing in a context that depends primarily on themself. The Never Ask series will focus on sellers, founders and CEOs Sue believes exhibit features of passionate ambivalence in their approach to selling and growing their companies. Kevin Brown left corporate America and cofounded (with Keah Kalantari) a sports chalk company called Friction Labs a decade ago. There is a lot of talk these days about category creation. Friction Labs didn't create the category of chalk for, say, rock climbing, but it did create the notion that professional and amateur climbers alike could have better climbing chalk. Friction Labs took a generic category and made it differentiated through pure innovation in both the product, branding, and positioning. In the pod, Kevin talks about how he started this journey, by offering a risk-free way for influential climbers to literally get their hands on Friction Labs chalk. It worked. Climbers loved the product, and sponsored athletes quickly led to a major full-chain rollout of the product line at REI followed by a number of global retailers. A key to the company's growth is Kevin's full alignment between this product category and his love of climbing (Kevin is a serious climber and bouldering club owner). He is as passionate an entrepreneur as I've ever met. His ambivalence shows up in the money-back guarantee he has used since Day 1. He has told climbers, gymnasts, golfers, tennis players, and major retailers that if they don't like the product, or if the product doesn't sell, he will offer a full no-questions-asked refund. He's had to do this almost not at all. If you love sports. If you love sweating outside. If you love from-the-heart selling, you'll love this episode, here and on YouTube. You can order Never Ask for the Sale at www.heysue.com/preorder. Get chalked for your next sweaty adventure at www.frictionlabs.com. You can see this and future episodes of the HeySue podcast on YouTube at www.youtube.com/sueheilbronner

Sarah Climenhaga is a writer and facilitator of Byron Katy's The Work. She is also a self-professed attention hog who loves to talk! But in this live coaching session with Sue and Leah, she brings her secret worry: “Does anyone actually care about what I have to say?” In this episode of the HeySue podcast, Leah and Sue inquire about the two competing voices in Sarah's mind, the one who loves to talk and the one who thinks Sarah takes up too much space. This internal contradiction is likely familiar to anyone who is a creator – it certainly resonates for Leah and Sue. What competing messages do you experience? You can learn more about Sarah's work at https://sarahclimenhaga.ca. And those nifty boots Leah mentioned at the top of the episode? Those are available here.

Fernanda Bertrand is a business coach and the host of her own podcast. She came to the session with Sue and Leah wanting to better understand the “darker side” of her – a judgmental voice – that keeps intruding on her thoughts. She admits that she has been judging herself and others her whole life... and she judges herself for that! In this live coaching episode of the HeySue podcast, Sue and Leah lead Fernanda to consider what those judgmental thoughts mean, for her sense of self-worth, as a type of gift, and as an internal radio station of judginess. As you listen, hear the openness in Fernanda and hear how your own internal patterns are echoed. We invite you to tune in. You can learn more about personas in Sue's new co-authored book, Leader Coach: Scaling Conscious Leadership at Work. If you want to go deeper on Leah's suggestion that your thoughts are not your fault, she recorded a teaching inspired by the session with Sue and Fernanda. You can hear more from Fernanda on her podcast, The Higher Self Project.

Nick Smith is the CEO and Co-Founder of Hauska, which uses AI to make home remodeling easier. But the real challenge in his life right now is how to raise a house full of teenage girls. Sue and Leah dive into what that responsibility means to Nick, as well as his core belief that “you either pay now and play later, or you play now and pay later.” The session investigates how to use anxiety as an invitation to get curious about your priorities. For Nick, that means leaning into what he knows is most important to him and discovering his own tricks for spending more time doing things he loves with the people he loves. If you find yourself staring at a full calendar wondering what you need to do to be happier, we recommend this piece by Sue on being “full” and this meditation by Leah on the tension between doing and rest. If you are also a golfer, you may enjoy this post where Sue gets some timely coaching during one of her worst games ever.

Dominique Aubry-Morgan is a high-achiever who is on a quest for more ease. In this episode, Sue and Leah engage with Dominique about how her desire to find a new cadence is in tension with her dominant identity. They dive into her familiar cycles and the anxiety that surfaces around all the competing desires she has for her life. What would happen if she did a trust fall into life? At the heart of this episode is the issue of how to navigate — and eventually release — the complex emotions, diligence, and “doing” that often accompanies (and can forestall) learning and change. To dig into these ideas a bit more, you can read about Sue's strategy for shifting core patterns and listen to Leah's exploration on not knowing.

Rachel Pickett comes to this coaching conversation with Sue and Leah with a pretty common problem: figuring out how to get her organization to grow. Rachel is the Founder and Executive Director of The Thinking Project, which also makes her the first non-profit leader on the HeySue podcast. Her organization (and her passion) is focused on bringing Byron Katy's The Work to children in educational settings. This conversation becomes an exploration of how love for something – an idea, a product, a cause – can be the key to unlocking growth. If you are not yet familiar with Byron Katy and The Work, you can visit thework.com. And if this is an entirely new tool to you, then this episode will certainly spark some curiosity!

Sue and Leah welcomed the first anonymous guest “Ryan” to the HeySue podcast! He kicked off the conversation by explaining that he is in the market for a coach who can help him get out of a funk. Sue and Leah invited Ryan to reflect on different parts of himself – from the achievement-oriented “higher self” to the cheese-loving slacker “Gary.” Ryan's curiosity and self-reflection shine through in this conversation that spans creativity, self-worth, quantified-self journaling, and Miyazaki's Fujimoto from Ponyo. This is a great listen for anyone (i.e. everyone) familiar with patterns of “productivity” and “laziness.” To go deeper, here is an exploration about how to allow yourself to rest. If you want to explore Ryan's pop culture references, listen to some Sufjan Stevens or watch the 1983 movie Wind in the Willows.

David Secunda is a successful serial entrepreneur who has big ideas ranging from tech solutions for talent management at companies to what may be the best adventure summer camp for kids in the US. In this live coaching episode of the HeySue podcast, David opens his heart and mind, sharing the deep questions he wonders about in his leadership. He talks about a recurring worry that he is “too much.” The inquiry around that worry unlocks a conversation about wanting to be liked as a leader, the upper limits he encounters as a visionary, reacting to internal and external critiques, and a persona named “Tiny” who is trying to protect David.

Robin Izsak-Tseng is the VP of Revenue Marketing at G2. She is a leader with a lot of expertise to offer, but having so many young tech dudes around makes her feel like an imposter. She wonders if she is holding herself back from the next level of leadership. In this bold and revealing session, Robin, Sue, and Leah Pearlman talk about the perks of being self-effacing, the desire to be more punk rock, and a tension between leading and belonging. You will hear about personas and why they show up, as well as how to stay with feelings of insecurity as you grow and move to the next level.

Shawna Barnhart is a seasoned product leader in tech who loves team building, cross-functional project orchestration, and deep, revealing client conversations. Like many leaders in tech, she was recently a part of a reduction in force. Shawna is trying to balance “holding on” and “letting go” in the midst of that transition. During this honest and joy-filled conversation, Shawna, Sue, and Leah dig into the issue of “selling yourself” on the job market by simply showing up with your passion and genius. This episode in particular showcases guest coach Leah Pearlman's coaching technique of “welcoming.” You can learn more about it at www.welcomingway.com.

Rachel Beisel is a seasoned executive who has achieved a lot of her goals and feels like she's at her next phase of growth. She climbed all of Colorado's 14-ers, ended her marriage, rang many professional bells, and wrote a book. She's looking at rewriting her bio in a literal and metaphorical sense. In this live coaching session, Rachel shares the questions she's facing as she is looking at the next chapter of her life and career with a hope of shifting some of her core patterns of planning, goals, and checklists for achievement. In this episode, Leah takes Rachel through an exploration to tune into her inner seven year old, finding a place of not knowing and opening to wonder.

Ajay Manglani, an exec in the generative AI space, joins Sue Heilbronner and Leah Pearlman for another episode of live executive coaching. Ajay, who brings a warmth, relatability, and sensitivity to this podcast and, seemingly, his leadership, raises two issues we hear often from company leaders. First, he discusses his effort to strike what he sees as the right balance around how much information (about board meetings, future company decisions, etc.) to share with his direct reports and larger team. He asks Leah and Sue for insights on how to think of that balance in a way that works best for him and for his team, and the coaches provide some thoughts you might find useful if you've wondered about this. Second, he asks how he might create more connected relationships with his colleagues. Leah does a bit of welcoming around his true motivations for wanting both more and less connection at once. As we do more of these episodes, we're grateful for the willingness of our leader guests to share what's really on their minds. We are game to talk to more leaders who are interested in this live coaching experience on the Hey Sue podcast. Find Sue on Linkedin, connect or follow, and send a message. We'll be in touch.

Pull back the curtain on conscious leadership executive coaching with a new leader every episode. In this ep, Yong Kim, CEO of Wonolo, joins Leah Pearlman and Sue Heilbronner for a deep and vulnerable live executive coaching session. Yong, who describes himself as the "Chief Empathy Officer" of Wonolo shares his concerns about a miss on quarterly numbers and opens the door to a wonderful conversation about 100% responsibility, the inner critic, and the many sides of empathy in leadership. This episode offers great insights on leadership pressures at any time, and surely during difficult macroeconomic conditions. It also offers wonderful perspective on optimizing a nurturing, compassionate relationship between CEO, venture investors, and company Boards of Directors.

Real Leaders takes a break from speaking with founders and leaders at technology startups to talk to the founders of Yogapod, a dynamic brick and mortar business in the heart of the yoga haven of Boulder, Colorado. But wait for it. Yoga pod founders Nicole and Gerry Wienholt have an even wider range than their 120-class weekly yoga schedule might have reflected, and they rose the challenge of Covid-19 closures days before the fast-moving municipalities mandated shutdowns. Today's yogapod is, for now, a tech company first. This is a winning story of two entrepreneurs who skipped over the five stages of grief in just one weekend, taking action to ensure the longevity of their vibrant business in the face of the Covid-19 pandemic. Yogapod--home to teachers and students who have been loyal since the business opened a decade ago--was live-streaming yoga classes before we knew the hashtag #flattenthecurve, and their loyal client base (I'm included) stayed the course, having a chance to meet live with their favorite teachers and community members from the shag-carpet "studio" of home. Yoga pod 's team watched the data and decided to make increasing investments to upgrade their technology to ensure a world-class streaming experience. A new microphone here, a second monitor so teachers could see themselves and also see the students. In the process, the founders realized that people well beyond the bounds of what we call the "Boulder Bubble" would enjoy practicing with leading teachers, no matter where they call home. So Yogapod is investing in streaming for good, regardless of when the city and state officials permit the reopening of yoga studios. This is my favorite kind of entrepreneurial story--packed with every stage of the lean startup process: from hunch, to experimentation, to learning, to leveraging that learning by taking informed risks. Join Sue Heilbronner and Nicole and Gerry Wienholt for a pivot story that is as vision-focused as it is P&L-focused.

Jim Dethmer and Diana Chapman – co-founders of the coaching and consulting business Conscious Leadership Group – are working to shift the mindset and level of self-awareness in global companies and organizations. Jim and Diana have been at the forefront of this movement, launching their bestselling book 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership in 2015 with Kaley Klemp. In this episode of the Real Leaders podcast, Sue Heilbronner leads an intimate interview with her long-time friends and fellow Conscious Leadership advocates Jim and Diana about why, how, and when they co-founded CLG. Combining their individual experience, skills, and resources, Jim and Diana decided to join forces to increase their impact. Jim’s passion for continued growth in consciousness and Diana’s practical approach to communication are what enable them to make change happen for their clients and coaches-in-training. CLG now comprises a talented group of coaches, trainers, and consultants who work with thousands of leaders and companies interested in bringing more conscious practices to their companies. Learn more about how Jim and Diana have built a rapidly growing international business through a mindset of abundance, transparency, and personal alignment on this engaging episode of the Real Leaders Podcast. Visit www.conscious.is to find upcoming events and more information about the Conscious Leadership Group. Real Leaders is brought to you by www.Leadership.Camp, a home for open Conscious Leadership coaching, events, and forums.

Chapter 2 in our series Conscious Leadership AMA ("Ask Me Anything") with Sue Heilbronner, CEO of MergeLane Fund and Leadership Camp. Conscious Leadership AMAs are open to alumni of MergeLane programs and camps at Leadership.camp. Leaders ask about their challenges and opportunities in implementing conscious leadership into their daily work and life. This episode features a heavy focus on unconscious commitments, including how to spot clearly the patterns that we are using in our leadership and how those patterns can make us more and less effective. Raw, real and revealed inquiries and live executive coaching from Conscious Leadership Coach Sue Heilbronner on the Real Leaders Podcast.

First episode in our series Conscious Leadership AMA ("Ask Me Anything") with Sue Heilbronner, CEO of MergeLane Fund and Leadership Camp. Hear from MergeLane portfolio fund CEOs and previous attendees of Leadership.camp about their challenges and opportunities in implementing conscious leadership into their daily work and life. Part of a new, occasional series from the Real Leaders Podcast

Mat Vogels is an extremely zestful CEO. And it's no surprise that he's founded a high-momentum startup called Zestful -- which is setting the standard for the next generation of employee perks -- with the tagline "live full." Because Mat Vogels lives fully. And behind his extraordinary attitude, full-time smile, and easy way of being stands a tenacious startup founder committed to making his company a winner. In this episode of the Real Leaders podcast with Sue Heilbronner, Mat shares his two-year journey in great detail -- the big wins like a berth in Y-combinator and funding from Bessemer -- and the long and arid valleys in between. He also opens up about how his personality traits make him the best and the worst CEO of a growth company and how he is managing that self-awareness to create the best version of himself and his company. Learn about the real story behind a fast-moving startup and its all-in founder in this telling episode of Real Leaders.

This is the third and final episode (so far) of our series on living kidney donation. Here seasoned donor coordinator Neshiyqah Nash tells you everything you need to know to consider being a non-directed donor or a donor to any of the 100,000 Americans (and plenty in your country if you're not American) awaiting a donor kidney right now. Learn about the process, the donor requirements, the timelines and your next steps to become a living kidney donor in this episode of the Real Leaders Podcast with Sue Heilbronner. If you like this episode, go back to hear episode 36 with Patty Graham, a successful altruistic donor who kicked off a huge chain of donations, and episode 35 with Mike Heilbronner, the recipient of a living kidney donation.

There are only slightly more than a hundred of people each year that make a "non-directed donor" kidney donation. Patty Graham is one of them. This means that Patty voluntarily donated a kidney not knowing who would receive it, and with her decision, she sparked a chain of kidney recipients getting their life-saving organ. Hear what motivated Patty and how her sister laid the groundwork when years ago she donated a kidney to their stepfather. Patty is an inspiring force of altruism in the world. Hear her story and all the wonderful things that have flowed from her decision to donate on this episode of the Real Leaders Podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

This is the first in a 3-part Real Leaders series on living organ donation. Our focus is on living kidney donation and the 100,000 people in the United States alone who are waiting for a life-saving kidney donation. In this episode, 50-year-old Mike Heilbronner talks about his need for a new kidney in his late forties and how he navigated the questions around asking for a living donor to step forward. He also discusses the process by which he ultimately decided to do a "marketing campaign" for a new organ and how an altruistic donor whom he didn't know stepped forward to fill his need. Learn about voluntary, in-life donation and how it affects recipients in this unique episode of the Real Leaders podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

Robyn Knowlan joined her two best friends from elementary school to start a business. Instead of trying their hands at a scalable tech business and targeting a high-multiple exit, they chose a cold-pressed juice retail operation that counts thousands of techies as its biggest fans in Boulder, Colorado. Wonder Press Juice is a business built with and from love, and as well as anyone I've met, Robyn explains how heart (and a massive amount of work) can create a fast-growing, values-aligned company bent on enhancing its customers' health. Hear about the journey of Robyn as a founder, then a CEO, and about Wonder Press, both the highs and the lows in this episode of the Real Leaders Podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

Perhaps you've heard of the mission-critical first 100 days in a new role. If you're looking at a new position and wanting to ensure your success -- or if you are making a key hire and want to ensure the same for that person -- Dennis Adsit of Adsum Insights has some great insights. Dennis has been coaching through his First 100 Days program, optimizing that key stage for new hires starting from before Day 1 in a new role. Hear his thoughts on this episode of the Real Leaders Podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

Alex Canter was born with a stainless steel spoon in his mouth, and on that spoon was a really excellent matzoh ball. Alex is among the fourth generation of Canter family members who learned about business early by working at the 87-old deli institution in Los Angeles. Canter's Deli is a Jewish-style restaurant that has been open 24 hours a day for the last 87 years. There is no lock on the door. When Alex began working at the restaurant, he saw that online ordering and food delivery were becoming a major part of the future opportunity for the business. Walk-in customers were down, and Alex wanted Canter's to triumph in this new age. He signed up for nine ordering services and saw the impact of the new revenue stream. He also saw the perils, with separate, non-integrated tablets behind the counter for Seamless, Grubhub, Uber Eats, and more. Orders were being lost, customers were having to wait when they arrived to pick up their food, the staff was confused. In this chaos, Alex Canter saw an opportunity to bring the more than 175 online ordering companies into a single point of sale system that could communicate with the front of house and back of house and fulfill the customer promise of hot food served seamlessly. Ordermark was born, allowing Canter's and thousands of other restaurant partners to manage all online ordering partner companies from a single device. In this episode of the Real Leader's podcast with Sue Heilbronner, hear Alex's story of growing up in an old-school restaurant family and bringing his gifts of vision and technical acumen to the table to create true innovation in the sector. Ordermark has raised in excess of $3 million to date and is part of the Techstars Boulder 2018 class. Learn more about Alex and how to get Ordermark at your restaurant at www.ordermark.com.

Lisa Weinstein had reached a point in her career where she'd covered most of the ground in advertising, from executive positions in global advertising firms to leading a major roll-up in the ad-tech space. After grabbing a number of brass rings in her industry, Lisa made a huge jump to lead a company she had been advising, Curiosity.com. Hear about her move, her ramp in this new role as a startup CEO, and her thoughts on where digital advertising and ad tech are headed on the Real Leaders Podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

When Vlada Bortnik arrived in the United States from the Ukraine at age 10 knowing very little English, her family settled in Kansas. Vlada was immersed in the language and in American culture, but she has never forgotten many of the things many Americans take for granted -- food in the grocery stores and enough money to buy it. From the time she was a kid, the founder of Joya (known best for the widely popular video communication app Marco Polo) has charted an intentional life. She landed at Northwestern University with a meaningful scholarship (which she needed), she majored in art and computer science, she successfully navigated from intern to product manager at Microsoft, and then she went out on her own (alongside her husband and co-founder) and built businesses that addressed market gaps or, with Marco Polo, solved a real problem. Vlada tells her inspiring entrepreneurial journey and her motivation for focusing on Marco Polo to help people feel close. Hear the intimate conversation on the Real Leaders Podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

Luke Saunders broke into entrepreneurship selling plants in elementary and middle school. After college, facing a poor economy and with a less-than-stellar academic record, he took the helm at his family's business, manufacturing and selling grease and lubricant to industrial producers. Luke was a dedicated sales road warrior, and he struggled with getting anything close to healthy food during weeks that he was driving 1000 miles to meet with accounts. How does someone with early exposure in logistics, manufacturing, and bad fast food end up leading a fast-growing, venture-backed, Chicago-based company that sells fresh and healthy meals through vending kiosks? It makes perfect sense as Luke tells the story on this episode of the Real Leaders podcast with Sue Heilbronner.

Seth Levine, partner at Boulder-based venture capital firm Foundry Group, was dismayed to hear the news coming out of Silicon Valley about the sexual harassment and sexual assault claims connected to veritable luminaries in the venture world. Seth and Foundry did what they often do on issues that matter. They moved quickly beyond thought and words to action. Yet this is a complex issue for a firm run by (his words) four middle-aged white guys. They stayed curious, moved carefully, sought extensive input, and continued to ask themselves tough questions about the "right thing" to do. Hear Seth's thoughts in the aftermath of these difficult disclosures and his views on what venture firms must do to not only be fair and decent but also leverage the meaningful investment opportunities with women-led startups. Listen in to an intimate conversation with MergeLane co-founder and CEO Sue Heilbronner on the Real Leaders podcast.

Mentoring has become a ubiquitous "should." You should be a mentor. You should have mentors. You should listen to the insights of your terrific mentors. This is certainly the byword in the startup world, and fantastic accelerators like Techstars are "mentor-driven" specifically nodding to the value that a diverse and engaged team of mentors can provide to an early-stage company. So if you're outside of this world and want to hear more about what a real-life mentor deep dive with a startup sounds like, this podcast is for you. If you're inside this world and want to hear what a mentor meeting sounds like with Techstars Boulder company Monday, here's your chance. This intimate conversations covers the usual business dynamics of the company and touches on the personal dynamics of the founders. Actually all of that counts as critical "business" dynamics. Evan Walden and Raul San Narcisso are the founders of Monday, at JoinMonday.com. Monday wants to connect engaged people with jobs they love, and as you'll hear, they're well on their way.

You know that time when you ended up at a bar with one of the smartest, most future-focused engineers you've ever met and you asked him (or her) a bunch of pretty basic questions about AR, VR, and AI? This episode of the Real Leaders podcast is a bit like that, except I get to feel like the neophyte asking the questions, both speakers stayed sober, and you get to be in awe of the way the complex mind of Vikas Reddy -- co-founder of spatial computing company Occipital -- can operate at the highest and most relatable levels in the highly complex space his company is charting. It's a great listen. A wonderful startup founder. A really nice and generous guy. A story of true long-term devotion to finding the nexus between the power of technology and pragmatic ways to use it to make human lives better.

Eric Friedenwald-Fishman was raised in a family of hippies (his words). His upbringing rendered him a change agent and a force for justice, as early as elementary school. In this transparent conversation with Real Leaders host Sue Heilbronner, Eric explains how his core values built and still permeate the mission at his social change communications firm, the Metropolitan Group.

Jason Eckenroth is coming off a terrific exit for the company he founded 17 years ago and ran for the entirety. Jason and ShipCompliant is a story about passion, perseverance, patience, and paving the way to building a great life through the creation and nurturing of a company that articulates your values. {{Jason's latest project is building a community for self-funded entrepreneurs. If you haven't raised venture capital, and are building a durable, profitable and meaningful business, visit www.sovereignty.com to learn more.}}

Devin Hibbard is changing the world, by radically enhancing the financial lives and self worth of women in its second largest continent. Devin could have chosen an easier path -- with talents perfectly suited to do just about anything -- but she has devoted her entire professional life to enriching the lives and prospects of women in Africa through the vehicle of BeadforLife. Hear how and hear why in this Real Leaders podcast with Devin Hibbard, the nonprofit's CEO.

You should know that Margaret Miner's companies generate way more revenue than you think, and way more than many of the tech companies you read about daily in TechCrunch. A completely different angle for this week's episode. Do you spend time and energy thinking about how to retain your top talent? How to give them growth opportunities in the business to keep them engaged? So does Margaret Miner, founder and CEO of Colorado-based Rags Consignments and ten20, a nail and waxing spa. Given how things have worked out in her decades of growing not one but two businesses founded to solve a need Margaret herself had, she's pretty much got this figured out. Take the fact that Ten20 has had retained at least one waxing technician -- growing her to one of two managers -- since the first days the company opened its doors 12 years ago. How about the fact that parents of the college-aged kids that staff the multi-unit Rags business regard the job as "finishing school" for their children. Margaret earned her chops as an entrepreneur the organic way -- by building not one but two successful businesses that have been self-supporting and growing since the start. In this Real Leaders episode, Sue and Margaret talk about the highs and the lows of this path. Now selling Ten20, Margaret shares the challenges of letting go of a business that has been so embraced by her customers. As always, this episode is real, raw, and revealing.

Nicole Glaros recently became Chief Innovation Officer of Techstars. In taking this role after serving as Managing Director of Techstars Boulder (the original Techstars accelerator) for years and the company's Chief Product Officer, she shed most of her direct reports because managing people wasn't her deepest passion. Nicole may be the most gifted mentor and coach for startup founders in the world. She's smart, funny, fast and fiercely committed to growing great founder leaders. In this Real Leaders podcast, Nicole also offers a real-time example of self-awareness, something she deems a critical feature of a founder worthy of investment. Nicole shares the backstory for her independent streak and discusses the downside of her extraordinary personal strength. This episode is a great example of a "real" leader, something Nicole lives and breathes daily.

Wendy Lea has had a lifetime of high-profile successes in building successful businesses. Leaving Get Satisfaction after years as CEO, Wendy was lured to Cincinnati to develop and grow an enduring business ecosystem that brings together startups, bigcos, government nonprofits, neighborhoods and even the clergy. The results already have been amazing. But Wendy is not your garden-variety winner. What you'll hear in this Real Leaders podcast is deep and candid reflection on what has motivated Wendy in her career and what gaps she's looking to fill across her life.

I think company founders who are also world-class athletes bring a unique form of tenacity to their businesses. Nicole DeBoom founded Skirt Sports after wearing her own homemade running skirt in an Ironman World Championship that she won. Nicole has excelled at so many things. A Yale graduate who chose triathlon after realizing she wouldn't likely go to the Olympics in swimming. Nicole brings all of herself to the growth and evolution of Skirt Sports. Her commitment to showing up vulnerably gives Skirt Sports incredible loyalty and connection with its growing customer base and the company's important mission.

This episode of the Real Leaders podcast features Elizabeth Kraus and Sue Heilbronner, co-founders of MergeLane, the investment fund and accelerator targeting companies with at least one female in leadership. Here Elizabeth turns the tables on Real Leaders Host Sue by asking her about her goals and motivations for building MergeLane as well as her approach to working closely with high-potential leaders. This episode gives real insight on the ways in which MergeLane is different, starting with the relationship between its founders. An intimate, revealing conversation.

Bill Flagg has a contrarian suggestion for startups: build and hold your companies. Fund your firms with revenue. Build great, enduring companies. Bill is serious, and he came by his strong views on this topic honestly. He sold his first company in a very lucrative transaction that he came to regret. Now Bill buys a material interest in select companies that are customer-funded, and he takes active roles in those firms -- from Saas businesses to summer camps. It’s almost incredible to think that Bill’s strong views on this are against the grain, as he essentially is just arguing for the definition of business that has been true before the burgeoning of venture funding. His views on this are terrific, and he’s taking a more visible stand on the topic, launching Sovereignty.com as a community, learning base, and support for founders who want to build customer-funded companies. Listen to Bill Flagg share his thoughts on business sovereignty in a candid conversation with Sue Heilbronner on the Real Leaders Podcast.

Erin Carson has worked as a fitness professional at RallySport Health & Fitness in Boulder, Colorado, since the very start of her career. After decades of commitment to this community-centric fitness club -- located in the heart of one of the fittest cities in the world -- Erin had the opportunity to buy the club. Erin did this in partnership with an ownership group who had been acquainted with her through her work at Rally, her successful triathlon career, and her terrific years on the University of Colorado women's basketball team. There are so many notable differences at Rally Sport, and Erin is at the forefront of all of them. Most importantly, Erin has always believed in cultivating personal trainers who are committed to the craft as a career. She grows both the training business at Rally (Rally Sport is at the top of health clubs globally in many business metrics associated with member engagement) and the trainers personally. She has set national benchmarks for retention of trainers and average salaries earned by her trainers. The sense of commitment to excellence comes through both in Rally's numbers and in the role the club plays in the community. In this terrific conversation with Real Leaders' host Sue Heilbronner, Erin speaks openly about her wins and her (very few) misses.

Lee Mayer, CEO of Havenly, joins Sue Heilbronner on the Real Leaders podcast to talk about the rapid growth of this cutting-edge design service. Lee shares reflections on the last two years and the role luck and gratitude has played in getting Havenly to where it is today. What comes through is that Lee has almost no sense of entitlement, and she values diligence and hard work in her staff above all else. Lee says “the hard problems are the profitable problems.” Leaving a cushy, well-paid job in New York to begin a new life and career in Colorado, Lee says she has grown more personally and professionally while developing her company than ever before. Havenly's core value is to "deliver on the delight factor," and Lee is finding savvy ways to turn this esoteric notion into a model that can be used across multiple products and markets for Havenly. Listen in as this founder and CEO discusses her high bar for hiring, her views of looking at the competition, and her sense of what makes for a great day at Havenly.

Founder and CEO of Homie, Johnny Hanna defies the entrepreneurial stereotypes. He is father of six kids under nine, and when his wife calls to remind him to come home from work, he does. Even more contrarian, Johnny Hanna has never been focused on the big exit. Instead, he has created companies "built to run," building cohesive teams and turning away from big-ticket purchase offers. When Johnny's first company, Entrata, reached $100M in recurring revenue, his gut told him it was time to move on in an amicable parting with his co-partners. He saw an opportunity to materially disrupt the real estate market at last. Unlike Zillow or Redfin, Homie is designed for the home seller who wants to cut out the real estate agent, save money and streamline the sale process with "pure automation." With 70% - 80% of home buyers finding their homes online without the assistance of an agent, the vision seems inevitable, and Johnny just may have the tools and tenacity to make that possibility a reality.. When it comes to leadership, Johnny's humble, down to earth attitude is a huge part of what makes him a success. He says,"I'm confident in what I don't know," and he isn't afraid to hire people who (according to him) are smarter than he is to fill in the gaps in his knowledge. Unlike many startups whose company culture is left to evolve organically, Johnny pays close attention to fit when hiring. He looks for loyal and positive-minded candidates. Johnny’s interview on the Real Leaders podcast with Sue Heilbronner offers a glimpse of the character of a founder who doesn't fit the standard mold. He prefers Utah to the Silicon Valley. He relishes the pressure from his board. He wants to solve the problem Homie addresses no matter who invests in it.

Fran Dunaway, co-founder and CEO of TomboyX, is an atypical leader. A humble and curious activist at heart, she's grown her women's apparel and accessories company at an amazing pace by being inclusive and focusing on previously underrepresented groups. As sales grow, new markets are discovering TomboyX and Fran finds ways to incorporate the needs of these demographics into her products. "This brand is for the people...the brand that helps people express who they are," she says in this Real Leaders podcast. Nowhere was this more obvious than in their initial Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign which raised $76K in 30 days. Clearly people saw something different and special and wanted to be part of it. Starting out as a clothing line and targeting the LGBTQ community via Facebook, TomboyX has decided to increase its emphasis on underwear, focusing on the huge success of its line of women’s boxer brief. The timing was perfect as a tide of acceptance for gay and transgender rights began to sweep mainstream culture and media. The company's development has mirrored these cultural changes by listening to customers. Fran says, "We're evolving in tandem...I don't feel like we're necessarily leading the charge, we're just paying attention." A two-time cancer survivor, Fran is no stranger to the tenacity required to build an early-stage company like TomboyX. "Nothing is more terrifying than starting your own business." She finds fulfillment in celebrating differences - different bodies, different careers, and different lifestyles. Find out how adaptability, inclusion and simple kindness have poised TomboyX to revolutionize the women's undergarment industry.

FrictionLabs’ co-founder and CEO Kevin Brown has the unique ability to get people energized about chalk, including national sports outfitters like REI and EMS, world-champion athletes and a fanatical base of online customers. By studying the evolution of the rock-climber demographic (of which he is a passionate member), Friction Labs has found the secret to making a seemingly mundane product at a premium quality level. At the same time, Kevin has made chalk fun to manufacture and market. Working in a niche market, Kevin has bridged the wholesale and direct sale arenas by, he says, "meeting buyers where they are in different mediums.” Whether it's on Amazon, the company website, or a retail store's shelf, the product is getting huge attention and rave reviews from the rock-climbing community. Kevin's unique methods extend to funding his company, staffing, and building a culture. He keeps his company "obsessively lean," but when considering new prospects, he says, "If something doesn't sound like a fun opportunity, we really question whether we want to do it." This entrepreneur is achieving big things in his own way, infusing enthusiasm and energy into the process at every stage and staying super-efficient while doing it. Knowing the importance of authenticity, Kevin tempers his bold style with genuine empathy saying, "You fight like hell to get the conversation [with a potential partner] and when you get it, you don't blow it...you start listening." He understands buyers' motivations and speaks directly to them. When it comes to his team members, he keeps expectations realistic, celebrates the wins, and looks at the rough patches as opportunities. Listen as Kevin Brown talks about how he has found “freedom” by leaving the corporate world and building a fast-growing company out of the dust, or chalk, such as it is.

Twenty-four year old Devon Tivona is the Co-founder and CEO of Pana, an on-demand travel agent software service that blends technology and real humans for ultimate ease in traveling. Devon is a rare mix of tech and EQ, getting energy from making human connections as well solving complex technical problems. These qualities have not only helped him launch a successful, well-designed and highly engaging app, but he has also garnered real loyalty his investors and advisors. He recognizes the value of this circle: "In order for a concept to be successful, you have to have this inner circle of people who are obsessed with your product."  Growing up Devon dreamed of attending Stanford. Although he was accepted there, he chose to attend the University of Colorado in Boulder, where he was offered a full merit scholarship. It was outside the classroom, however, where Devon found cohorts of like-minded people in the startup community. He founded Pana with classmates, won the University’s prestigious New Venture Challenge, and the company was accepted to Techstars Boulder upon his graduation. When talking about his experience in creating and maintaining a tight team, he believes that candor and transparency are the two greatest lessons he and his co-founders have learned. When it comes to vetting new ideas, the Pana team keeps its process open. "We have an idea, and we have a gut about it and we give the freedom to say 'Great. Build a hypothesis and go test it.'" Find out how this young entrepreneur won his company the backing of Techstars Ventures, The Foundry Group, Galvanize, Flight VC and a host of angel investors through his raw talent, obsession with learning, excitement and authenticity. 

Mark Berey, CEO turned white-collar crime detective, talks candidly about making a contrarian decision to turn in his country club membership for a slot in the police academy after his attempt at retirement. Growing up with both parents running separate, successful businesses, he was infused at an early age with an entrepreneurial mentality and an inquisitiveness that landed him roles as CEO and CFO at Giant Foods, Discovery Communications, and Sutton Place Gourmet.  When advising young people looking to grow and succeed, Mark's advice is to work hard and keep your objectives in mind. "I had a goal and if it meant taking orders from people that I know a year or two later might be reporting to me, I could do that." Industrious and pragmatic, Mark understands the meaning of true success, changing industries to suit his intellectual interests and knowing when to say when. Speaking about former colleagues, he says, "the ones who are least happy are the ones that are chasing a bar that keeps rising". Having made enough money to be financially secure, Mark changed course later in life by becoming a detective investigating financial and economic crimes. Mark's journey of realistic authenticity and clear-headed curiosity, will have you excited about the possibilities of your next chapter. 

In 2005, Lisa Stone consummated her transition from journalism to digital entrepreneurship with the co-founding of BlogHer. This business began as a conference for female bloggers, the first of which attracted 305 women bloggers and netted $60,000 in profit. BlogHer extended its awareness that social-media-activated women were an invaluable audience into an influencer network that reached 100 million women through a scalable technology company to monetize blogs and social communications. Lisa and her team sold BlogHer in 2014 to She Knows Media, and in this intimate conversation, Lisa talks about the import of women in media and her transition into chapter next. She reports that In the late 90s, people were saying women would never go online. She knew that was crazy. She now says "there is no media today without social media. There is only one customer you need to reach, and it’s the woman who is leading conversations in social media. She will not only bring female friends, she will also bring the men." Lisa is an authentic leader who build a company that traded on authenticity as a core value. This is a great window into Lisa's journey.

Scott Phoenix founded his first startup at age 16. By age 19 or 20, he got interested in Artificial Intelligence ("AI") because, according to Scott, "of all the things a person could work on, if you actually figure out how to build the first human-level AI, then you’ve solved all the other problems. You could have the AI then help you to solve any problem that a human could solve.” Scott started a few companies in between his 16th year and the founding of Vicarious -- his company that's "on a mission to build the next generation of artificial intelligence algorithms." He says that solving a very large problem is a key to his motivation around Vicarious. "Having a company whose core purpose in life is what I’m on fire to do and whose impacts would be really groundbreaking is something that makes me feel way more alive than any of the things that I’ve done before Vicarious." Scott's thoughts on this topic, his talent, his team, and his intense commitment have attracted the attention of investors including Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos, Ashton Kutcher, Marc Benioff, and a host of other internationally regarded leaders in tech. “We have a moral imperative to build this invention b/c the second we do it will have tremendous benefits to society. Every day we don’t have it, there are a tremendous number of things that go wrong that wouldn’t go wrong if we had really smart AIs to help us”

Phil Weiser is the outgoing Dean of the University of Colorado Law School, and there are countless reasons why he deserves a place on a podcast about early and mid-stage growth companies. Phil has created a climate at CU Law that essentially renders "town" and "gown" completely indistinguishable. He has brought together the entrepreneurial leaders, venture capitalists, large companies, government officials, and key service providers in the burgeoning business ecosystem of Boulder and made them an intimate part of the educational experience at CU Law. Why are these busy people so attracted to Phil's mission? Because Phil talks the talk and walks the walk of instilling an entrepreneurial mindset in the law students (and students from other parts of the university) he works with. Phil is a genius networker, and if he doesn't readily have a way to inject an influential leader into the law school, he creates one. In this podcast, Phil shares his guiding principle for his work -- that everything he does and has done in his career is an experiment. Phil is a "Lean Startup." Phil also discusses the ways that under his leadership -- and with the partnership of so many others -- CU Law has grown against the downward trend in law school applications nationwide since the mid-2000s recession. His views on reinventing the historical "normal" path for law school education are instructive for all educators and business leaders who care about developing nimble, self-aware young people who are capable of innovation in themselves and in the projects they elect to pursue in their lives.

Promise Phelon, CEO of TapInfluence, has built successful companies on both coasts and made her way to Boulder in 2015 to lead the leading Saas company for influencer marketing. In this authentic and engaging conversation, Promise shares and influential stories from her early career that have shaped her approach to leadership. She also talks about her experience of landing in a city in the middle of her career on the SFO to NYC flight path: “In the Valley, there’s become an archetype of who gets what — opportunities, venture money. And I wonder if that archetype is either dated or needs to be revisited. What I think about is there’s nothing conventional about Boulder, so can there be a different archetype or an anti-archetype that gets welcomed here?” She is embracing the opportunity to build a big company that looks nothing like big companies in the Valley. How can you scale an influencer marketing business that depends on authenticity of speakers to support the major brands that are clients of TapInfluence? According to Promise, “authenticity is risky, which is why it’s so popular. The secret is having influencers be motivated by more than money."

Meet Scott Meyer, CEO of Ghostery, one of the most popular browser plugins in the world. According to Scott, Ghostery "makes the web not suck." Scott tells the story of taking this business and company culture from a grassroots free plugin to global Saas platform serving some of the largest brands in the world. How hard was this shift? According to Scott, it was far easier for outside users than inside employees. Scott talks candidly about building a culture aligned with the goals of this VC and PE-backed company. He shares the backstory around how Ghostery transparently addressed the controversial launch of the Peace app. Scott jumped from an Ivy League background into rough and tumble startups. How he feels about that: “Sometimes you’re screaming with exhilaration, sometimes you’re feeling dizzy and like you want to puke, and sometimes you just want to get off. Overall, I still love roller coasters.”