Podcasts about janeite

Netflix has just announced a brand new Pride and Prejudice adaptation, and you know I had to weigh in! In this episode, I'm chatting through all the early details—from Dolly Alderton writing the screenplay to the fresh marketing strategy, which seems much more tailored to the Janeite and bookish community.We talk about what we've loved in past adaptations, where there might still be space for a new take on this beloved novel, and yes... we do share our concerns (especially after the whole Persuasion situation).Hope you enjoy it!Where can you find Dr Kayla Jones:  @regencyrumours  on all platforms!

Welcome, Janeites, to the What the Austen? podcast! I'm your host, Izzy Meakin, a lifelong Janeite with a deep love for Austen. Each month, I team up with fellow enthusiasts to explore the wit, charm, and quirks of Jane's novels. This podcast is for those who enjoy thought-provoking discussions and a good laugh, covering everything from romantic moments to quirky aspects and unpopular opinions. We embrace the full spectrum of the Austen fandom. Join me for lively conversations that deepen your love for her timeless tales.

The third episode of Mike & Megan's show continues with an episode all about Parenting, as submitted by Tony (A.R.) Farina! M&M discuss what their childhoods, their thoughts on becoming parents in the future, children's behaviours and more! Let us know what you think and please submit your topics for future episodes! Watch the video version here: https://youtu.be/eznshwdUvko All Patreons received this episode one month early and have access to episode 3 (Parenting) so to support Mike and hear even more from Megan, consider supporting Mike's podcasting endeavours at https://patreon.com/GenuineChitChat - for only £1 per month, you will get instant access to over 230 episodes of their exclusive Patreon show Afterthoughts and a new episode is released every week! Find Megan @GrittsGetsFit on Instagram and find all of Mike's social media & other links at https://linktr.ee/GenuineChitChat Mike & Megan recently guested on Chris & Dave's Reality Cast, on the first week of Love Island: https://pod.fo/e/24596f  Mike, Megan, Dan & Ria return for Disney Discussions 12, to talk about The Rocketeer & Condorman: https://pod.fo/e/2413fd Mike & Megan were on Back To The Filmography to talk about Jason Statham in The Meg: https://pod.fo/e/2370b0 - they have also recorded their episode for Meg 2: The Trench, so keep an eye out for that too! Megan was also on episode 232 of GCC to talk about dog behaviour with Paige and was on ep 228 to talk Vegas with Chris! The previous episode of GCC was with Tony (A.R.) Farina & Ada McCartney; Tony is author of the Austen Chronicles while Ada has performed/recorded for both audiobooks thus far! The trio discuss why Ada was chosen to perform each of The Austen Chronicles audiobooks, the challenges Ada faced recording a shared universe, favourite characters to read and to perform, their love of reading and so much more – whether you're a fan of writing, an audiophile or a Janeite, tune in for a fantastic conversation! Mike has also been releasing weekly Acolyte discussion shows – you can listen at the Comics In Motion or Star Wars: Comics In Canon podcasts, or watch at https://youtube.com/GenuineChitChat – Dave was for the premiere and Maff was on episode 3, with Tonya Todd on episode 4 and JAC on ep 5! Sign up to the Pop Culture Collective newsletter here to keep up to date with Mike and other incredible creator's many releases: https://pccnewsletter.com     GUEST SPOTS: Mike spoke about Dune 1984 and Part 1 (2021) with the 20th Century Geek: https://pod.fo/e/227135 Mike was recently on Mandatory Music & CD, talking Weezer: https://pod.fo/e/224890 Mike also featured on the VHS Strikes Back, talking Trainspotting: https://pod.fo/e/22437b Mike hosted the 1000th episode of Comics In Motion: https://pod.fo/e/22046f - https://youtu.be/OqFFFehte5A Find all of Mike's social media & other links at https://linktr.ee/GenuineChitChat 

This week Mike speaks with Tony (A.R.) Farina & Ada McCartney; Tony is author of the Austen Chronicles while Ada has performed/recorded for both audiobooks thus far! In more detail, the trio discuss how Ada & Tony met, why Ada was chosen to perform each of The Austen Chronicles audiobooks and the challenges Ada faced recording a shared universe. They then discuss each of their connections to Jane Austen, what it was like collaborating to create the best voices & performances for the books, favourite characters to read and to perform, their love of reading, the future of The Austen Chronicles, how narration works in these Austen novels, Ada's recording process and so much more – whether you're a fan of writing, an audiophile or a Janeite, tune in for a fantastic conversation! Ada is part of the Femme On podcasting collective, found here: http://femmeon.show and she was previously on ep 171 of GCC to talk about some very special poems she has written! Ada's site is: https://aamccartney.com - Her Poetry Site: https://aa-mccartney.medium.com – On Twitter & Instagram @aa_mccartney – Ada's Appearance on Indie Comics Spotlight: https://pod.fo/e/11bf5b Inga Muscio's book “C*nt”: https://goodreads.com/book/show/52588.Cunt Tony has been on GCC numerous times, the last three were episodes 195 (introducing his first Jane Austen Novel), 219 (for Buffy Revisited) and episode 222 for further information on Welcome To Mansfield, with tangents about language, music & history! Find Tony's site here: https://www.arfarina.com, his podcast Indie Comics Spotlight is found on Comics In Motion: https://podfollow.com/comicsinmotion & find his book Welcome To Mansfield wherever you buy books, with That Other Dashwood Girl due out in October 10th 2024! You can hear the playlists for Tony's novels on Spotify or his website: https://www.arfarina.com/music.html The previous episode of GCC was Clone Wars Conversations Season 3, Part 2 and the episode the week before, was a special episode where Mike speaks with Leyna; she is one of several alters in the Doug Vincent System, to explain the condition of Dissociative Identity Disorder; what it means, how it affects you and what living with it is really like. Mike has also been releasing weekly Acolyte discussion shows – you can listen at the Comics In Motion or Star Wars: Comics In Canon podcasts, or watch at https://youtube.com/GenuineChitChat – Dave was for the premiere and Maff was on episode 3, with Tonya Todd due on to talk episode 4! Sign up to the Pop Culture Collective newsletter here to keep up to date with Mike and other incredible creator's many releases: https://pccnewsletter.com     GUEST SPOTS: For something completely different, Mike recently guested on Chris & Dave's Reality Cast, filling in for Chris on the first week of Love Island (with Megan): https://pod.fo/e/24596f   Mike, Megan, Dan & Ria return for Disney Discussions 12, to talk about The Rocketeer & Condorman: https://pod.fo/e/2413fd Mike & Megan returned to Back To The Filmography to talk about Jason Statham in The Meg: https://pod.fo/e/2370b0 Mike was chatted Dune 1984 and Part 1 (2021) with the 20th Century Geek: https://pod.fo/e/227135 Mike was recently on Mandatory Music & CD, talking Weezer: https://pod.fo/e/224890 Mike also featured on the VHS Strikes Back, talking Trainspotting: https://pod.fo/e/22437b Mike hosted the 1000th episode of Comics In Motion: https://pod.fo/e/22046f - https://youtu.be/OqFFFehte5A Find all of Mike's social media & other links at https://linktr.ee/GenuineChitChat 

"Emma"  has never felt more vivid and imaginative, thanks to Georgie's artistic prowess from Duniath Comics.  It was wonderful to hear about Georgie's Jane Austen journey from finding solace within the pages of "Sense and Sensibility" to creating his own Jane Austen-themed comics, serving as both a sanctuary and a spark for creative endeavours. Georgie explains how he creates both graphic novels and comics and how he uses this medium to retell much-loved classics with a fresh perspective. This episode is a celebration of Jane Austen's work, the Janeite community and the work creators like Georgie are doing to help make this space inclusive and welcoming to all - a space Jane Austen herself would be proud of. Where can you find Georgie Castilla Website Youtube Instagram: @duniathcomicsSOLD On The DreamWhat's a life selling real estate really like? This humorous guide tells it, as it is!Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the showWhere can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: www.whattheausten.com Podcast Instagram: @whattheaustenPersonal Instagram: @izzy_meakinYoutube: What the Austen? Podcast

Have you ever envisioned Jane Austen entangled in a murder investigation? I am joined by novelist Jessica Bull, who brings this fascinating concept to life in ‘Miss Austen Investigates'.It was amazing to discuss how Jessica's teenage love of Jane Austen led her down the rabbit hole that would eventually inspire her to write a story where our favourite literary icon takes on a whole new role. Her dedication to research and authenticity breathes life into a narrative that balances historical accuracy with the creative flair that only a true Janeite could master

Hello, Janeites! Pour yourself a hot drink or glass of wine, and settle in for an enlightening conversation on our favourite Austen characters, their intriguing relationships, and the societal pressures they endure. Caily back for this year-end episode, where we reflect on the past year's discussions, the challenges we faced, and the wisdom we gained along the way.From the manipulative Lucy Steele in "Sense and Sensibility" to the controversial Lydia from "Pride and Prejudice," we dissect the multi-faceted personalities of Austen's world. We explore the complex dynamics of Edmund and Fanny's relationship in "Mansfield Park" and the role Lydia played in Lizzie and Darcy's love story. We stress the significance of 'girl code', supportive female friendships, and the importance of self-care for us modern-day Janeites. As we look ahead, an exciting new year awaits us with more in-depth character studies, the expansion of our book club, and the growth of our Patreon community. With gratitude in our hearts for each of you, we are thrilled to continue this Janeite journey, engaging in profound discussions about the timeless world of Austen. Let's raise our teacups to another year of Austen adventures, and let the conversation flow!Mentions: Melodie illustrator (Cover Art)The Woman's Guide to Girl Code | Spot a Friend or Foe  Classics Out LoudWe take great books that have stood the test of time and make completely new recordings...Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the showWhere can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: www.whattheausten.com Podcast Instagram: @whattheaustenPersonal Instagram: @izzy_meakinYoutube: What the Austen? Podcast

Devoney Looser discusses with Ivan six things which should be better known. Devoney Looser, Regents Professor of English at Arizona State University, is the author or editor of ten books, including Sister Novelists: The Trailblazing Porter Sisters, Who Paved the Way for Austen and the Brontës, The Making of Jane Austen, and The Daily Jane Austen: A Year of Quotes. Looser, a Guggenheim Fellow and an NEH Public Scholar, has published essays in The Atlantic, New York Times, Salon, Slate, TLS, and The Washington Post. Her series of 24 30-minute lectures on Austen is available through The Great Courses and Audible. In addition to being a quirky Janeite book nerd, she's played roller derby under the name Stone Cold Jane Austen. Find out more at http://Devoney.com. The Porter sisters https://sisternovelists.com Love on the Spectrum https://www.netflix.com/title/81265493 The Church of Stop Shopping and Reverend Billy https://revbilly.com/ The Ring Theory https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html Roller Derby https://www.wired.com/story/womens-roller-derby-has-a-plan-for-covid-and-it-kicks-ass/ Jane Austen's Lady Susan https://www.nybooks.com/online/2016/05/27/love-and-friendship-unserious-austen/ This podcast is powered by ZenCast.fm

In this episode I am joined by friend and fellow Janeite Sophie Andrews from blog and Instagram page @LaughingwithLizzie as we discuss the life lessons we have taken from Jane Austen's heroines over the years. Looking at what quotes we resonate with and what it means to live with Jane in mind 200 + years after her death. Sophie is a prominent Janeite in the community and it was so much fun to sit down and chat about our mutual love of Jane's novels and characters. This podcast is about Janeites coming together, discussing Jane Austen's work, and having a few laughs along the way. We really enjoyed making this episode and we hope you like it. Where can you find Sophie? Instagram: @laughingwithlizzieBook: Be more Jane & Be your own HeroineBlog: http://laughingwithlizzie.blogspot.com/Youtube: https://youtube.com/channel/UCfVhOxVmayHjm4O9qGbCMbA BBC Documentary 'My Friend Jane': https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08ywkjv Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEAudible | 30 day free trial Izzy's recommendation: The Jane Austen Collection: An Audible Original Drama Support the showWhere can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: www.whattheausten.com Podcast Instagram: @whattheaustenPersonal Instagram: @izzymeakinYoutube: What the Austen? Podcast

Jane Austen gift guide 2022! So I thought this would be a fun episode to help you build your wish list or to give you some ideas on what to get a fellow Janeite. I am joined by the wonderful Eleanor owner of the Haus of Bennet shop @hausofbennet as we pick our favourite Jane Austen themed gift ideas for this year. Mentioned (please find links and more info on my blog post): Jane Austen felt decorations/ornaments Ex Libris designs Austen Heroines & Tee Jane was Here Travel Guide by Nicole Jacobsen, Devynn MacLennan, Lexi NilsonNorthanger Soapworks SoapsClaire and Clementine Bookish Stickers  The Jane Austen Tarot Deck by Jacqui Oakley The Jane Austen playing cards by John Mullan Haus of Bennet's "What are men to rocks and mountains?" Holographic Sticker The Well Read Company's Pride and Prejudice bags WheatonsCloset's Regency Dresses Penguin Clothbound Books Wordsworth Collectables Barnes & Noble Collectible EditionsVintage copies of Jane Austen's novelsTea and illustration StickersVivi at Home Studio's Jane Austen Themed Cutie, Kawaii Character Faces Haus of Bennet's Regency cross neckless  Build a Bear's Rebel Girls collection Jane Austen Build a Bear Discount codes: Haus of Bennet: whatthediscount for 22% OFFNorthanger Soapworks:  IZZY10 FOR 10% OFF.Everything myself and Eleanor mentioned can be found on my website: www.whattheausten.comI have added easy links and info for you there. Where can you find Eleanor? Instagram: @hausofbennetWebsite: https://hausofbennet.com/Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/au/shop/HausofBennet This podcast is about Janeites coming together, discussing Jane Austen's work, and having a few laughs along the way. We really enjoyed making this episode and we hope you like it. Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEAudible | 30 day free trial Izzy's recommendation: The Jane Austen Collection: An Audible Original Drama Support the showWhere can you find your host (Izzy)? Website: www.whattheausten.com Podcast Instagram: @whattheaustenPersonal Instagram: @izzymeakinYoutube: What the Austen? Podcast

Hello friends,Welcome to a special Austen Connection podcast episode - taped earlier this month, for a live-streamed event at the wonderful Austen Con 2022, an international weekend gathering of scholars, artists, and creators on Jane Austen topics, from Melbourne, Australia.This was fun!The annual Austen Con is produced by Sharmini Kumar and 24 Carrot Productions, from Abbotsford Convent in Melbourne and it's also live-streamed.It was wonderful to take part in this year's Austen Con with our friend author Devoney Looser, to talk about her new book Sister Novelists: The trailblazing Porter sisters, who paved the way for Austen and the Brontes.Watch for more upcoming episodes from the Austen Connection, and more posts connecting Jane Austen to so many, many things - here at the Austen Connection as the season rolls out, we'll be bearing gifts that will drop in your inbox if you're a subscriber, and if not why not?! Join our community, here.Links and more reading* Here's where you can find out more about Austen Con 2022 - and special thank-you to Sharmini Kumar and Tech producer Tad Errey for help with this production/podcast episode* Here's where you can find Sister Novelists, and here's where you can follow Devoney Looser and sign up for her newsletter Counterpoise - about strong women, we're here for it!* Here's a biography of Mary Robinson by Janeite author and scholar Paula ByrneIf you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to review it! Get full access to The Austen Connection at austenconnection.substack.com/subscribe

Did the newest adaptation of Jane Austen's Persuasion leave us in agony or hope? The release of the 2022 Persuasion has set the Lonely Girls of the world abuzz and so we stayed up past our bedtime to watch the movie and then immediately record an episode. This isn't your regular Janeite rant. Rebecca was very adamant that it wouldn't turn in to that. So instead we talk about the other adaptations, what went wrong in this version, and what we actually enjoyed *gasp*. What did we get right? What did we get wrong? Idk. We're attaching the two pieces of media below that Rebecca and Madelaine particularly liked. -Moderngurlz: https://youtu.be/fzAY0UmxNIQ-Kermode and Mayo's Take: https://youtu.be/AATrCIcotvA Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sensual details, it's said, make scenes come alive on the page. Today's guest Leesa Cross-Smith is a master of the sensual, and you'll see why when you listen to her interview. A listmaker, a word handler, a Janeite who owns 25 copies of Pride and Prejudice, Cross-Smith helps us think about the sensual and how to bring it to your awareness and to your writing. We touch upon form, too, short and long, and why sensual detail matters so much, no matter what you're writing.

This week we are joined by the amazing Becca and Molly from Pod and Prejudice! Join us as we discuss Janeite culture, how to avoid spoilers, Daddy Bennet, and much more Find Becca and Molly at podandprejudice.com and @podandprejudice on Instagram!

Hello dear friends,We're heading into the holidays - and next week our topic is Bad Families from Jane Austen, just in time for our family gatherings for the US holiday, Thanksgiving Day. Stay tuned for that! But first, let's talk about romance.Specifically, let's talk about Muslim romance.The author Uzma Jalaluddin is well known in the Jane Austen world for her retelling of Pride and Prejudice. Her novel Ayesha At Last puts Lizzy Bennet - or Ayesha - in a large Muslim family in the Scarborough neighborhood of Toronto, where she's navigating complicated cousins, domineering matriarchs, and the rituals of marriage proposals, all while hoping to find the time to follow her ambitions for poetry.Uzma Jalaluddin herself seems outrageously busy.When she's not writing novels, teaching high school, and parenting, she writes a column for the Toronto Star about education, family, and life - it's called “Samosas and Maple Syrup.”Ms. Jalaluddin's latest novel is Hana Khan Carries On. It's been optioned for the screen by Amazon Studios and writer-producer Mindy Kaling.In this conversation, Uzma Jalaluddin tells us how she discovered Jane Austen - as a teen, at the local library in the Toronto neighborhood she grew up in - Scarborough. That neighborhood is also the setting for both of her romcom novels, Ayesha At Last and Hana Khan Carries On. It's a diverse, vibrant neighborhood that now her readers also feel right at home in - at least in our imaginations.Enjoy this podcast, available on Spotify and Apple, or by simply clicking Play, above. Check out the links to more Muslim women writers and artists below, send us other recommendations, and leave us a comment! And for those who prefer words to audio or like both, here's an excerpt from our conversation:Uzma Jalaluddin I was - I am and was - a voracious reader. Growing up, I was constantly in the library. I was that kid who - the high school that I went to was right across the street from a large public library. And so during lunch breaks after school, I would just head over to the library and borrow books and hang out there. And I just studied there, I would just basically live there. And even my school library, of course, had a pretty good collection of books. And that's really where I was among my people, when I was in the library.Plain Jane And was that in Scarborough, Toronto? Uzma Jalaluddin That's right. It was in Scarborough. It's the Cedarbrae library, if any of your listeners are from Toronto. It's a very large building,Plain Jane And shout out to libraries and librarians.Uzma Jalaluddin Oh my God, hashtag-library-love, I have so much love. And I think so many writers can relate to this, right? Like you become a writer out of a sense of, a love of reading. And I think I was a teenager - I must have been 15 or 16 years old - and I heard about Jane Austen. And I was one of those kids that just was like, “I want to read all the classics. I'm really interested. I'm going to try everything. I'm going to try reading Dickens and, you know, the Russian novels and Anna Karenina. And let me try Shakespeare,” and all of this. …So I picked up Pride and Prejudice, and I read it. And I remember the language was, it felt very old-fashioned to me. And it took me a while to get through it. And I did read it. And then I remember after I - because it takes a while, especially as a teenage girl, for it to sort of pick up ... there was something about that book that just stuck with me. And I kept going back to it and rereading it. And I'm a kid and then I'm a child of the ‘90s. So when the 1995 A&E  special came out, you know, I got the box set. And I would watch it. My mom watched it with me, it was this thing that we both really enjoy doing. And I think I've said this before, multiple times: But the books that you read when you're young, especially at those formative ages, the ones that you love, they just stay with you. Those stories just stay with you. And I feel like Jane Austen and specifically Pride and Prejudice - and I did go on further and read all of her novels - have traveled with me throughout my life. And I'm so glad that they have, because … my take on Elizabeth and Darcy came out in Ayesha At Last. And that is a book that has brought me so much joy, sharing with the world, writing it, and all of the things that have come afterwards. It's been truly a privilege.Plain JaneI love the way you say that Jane Austen travels with you through life. That is something that really brings people - Jane Austen readers - together too. Because we kind of have fellow travelers traveling with Jane Austen through life when we have this community, which is cool. But I know that from hearing you talk with Janeite communities, and reading some of your interviews as well, that you really see it - correct me if I'm wrong - but you seem to see yourself as a writer first and then the genre romance, the retellings, come second? So it seems like you were writing Ayesha At Last, and those characters were kind of taking shape, and the story was taking shape, and you realized, there's an element of Pride and Prejudice and Jane Austen in this, which isn't surprising. Can you tell us how you ended up with a retelling?Uzma Jalaluddin  My first novel took me a really long time to write. And then it's probably just a function of the fact that I'm a busy person. I'm a high school teacher. I also have two young boys. And when I started writing this book in 2010, I knew that it was going to be a long marathon. And the book wasn't published until 2018. So it took me about seven years for the entire book to kind of take place. And it wasn't until my fourth or fifth draft, that I gave the book to a friend of mine. And she she pointed out that this has a lot of the elements of Pride and Prejudice. Specifically, she was pointing out the fact that I seem to have a Mr. Darcy character in Khalid, and Elizabeth Bennet character in Ayesha, and a Mr. Wickham character in Tarek, and I thought, “Oh, my goodness, I didn't even see it.” And that's the ironic thing. I mean, I was writing a book and I was leaning into these tropes, these well-known characters that I love, and I didn't see it. And I made a very deliberate choice. And it was her suggestion, but it was also something that I decided to lean into. I thought, “I'm a completely unknown writer. Here I am sitting in Markham, Ontario, writing this book. No one's heard of me.” I wasn't writing for the Star at this time, either - [I'm a] high school teacher. And on top of that, I'm writing about these unapologetically Muslim characters. Or, as you said, [going] so deep inside of the community that it feels like all I'm talking about are Muslim characters. Who's going to give me a chance? This was like 2014, right? Who's going to give me a chance? Nobody. So let me do something that pays homage to a story that I love, which is Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, and also turn it and use it for my own devices. Because that story, I think, really resonates with South Asian communities to this day, even though the book itself was written over 200 years ago. And so that's what I did. I reread - for the dozenth time or more - Pride and Prejudice, and I picked out the pieces that I thought would really translate well, and I went about and I rewrote my book. And it felt like I should have done that from the beginning, because that would have saved me years of drafting. Because that's the book it was trying to be, I just didn't see it.[T]he books that you read when you're young, especially at those formative ages, the ones that you love, they just stay with you. Those stories just stay with you. And I feel like Jane Austen and specifically Pride and Prejudice - and I did go on further and read all of her novels - have traveled with me throughout my life. Plain Jane  Well, it's helpful to have some scaffolding for your imagination to just go wild within … to just kind of hold you together. So that does make sense. And you're saying something really profound here in a way, making me realize that the stories of Jane Austen and the Jane Austen community - not to overstate their influence - can provide access to voices, provide an audience, provide access, and provide a way for diverse voices. You've said something really interesting in the Toronto Star, you talked about the challenge that you felt like was in front of you to get your story. And the story of this family, of these characters in the public eye, and published, and you have written in the Toronto Star that “the lack of diversity in the arts has harmed me in ways I'm only starting to untangle.” Can you tell us a little bit about the lack of diversity in the arts, and how and what a challenge that has been for you?Uzma Jalaluddin When I wrote that piece, in particular, I pitched it to my editor as a way for me to sort of unpack this, and almost have this as a battle cry. It was an encouragement for parents, my fellow parents - who are maybe first-generation immigrants, unlike me, or maybe are like me, second-generation immigrants … they're, you know, so far removed from their home countries - to encourage those children to go into the creative arts. Because I feel like in Asian communities, in particular, there's such a push to have kids really establish themselves. And I'm speaking - forgive me, I'm speaking very generally here, and I am speaking from a Canadian immigrant perspective here as well, it could be different other places - but I feel as an educator, who teaches a lot of Asian students, there's such a push for children to go into traditional professional fields. So to go into the sciences, to go into the STEM fields, the math fields, engineering. And art is not even considered important. And yet, art is the basis of culture. And culture is what keeps our society going. And the people who are making the art are very rarely the same ones who represent that same Asian immigrant subset that I'm talking about, or even any marginalized communities. Things are changing now. But certainly when I was growing up in the ‘90s, and early 2000s, there was very limited representation of immigrants of South Asians, and definitely Muslims. And the types of stereotypes that I was exposed to, as a Muslim woman, were, quite frankly, very toxic. And one of the impacts of that is that … even though I clearly was interested in the creative fields, I've been writing since I was a kid, I've been reading my entire life, I have an aptitude for this and a talent for this. And yet, I never thought that I belonged in this industry, I didn't even know how to go about inserting myself into this industry. Beyond “maybe I should be a journalist” … And instead, I became a high school teacher, because I knew that it's a very stable job. I like people, I like kids. Okay, let me go and do that. But - I think I was telling my husband this - I started too late. I started in the creative arts, as an adult, as a mother, all of these responsibilities were already there. And so here I am in the position of juggling, like, five or six different jobs, and having a completely [booked] calendar. And so I want parents to know that … there are opportunities in the creative fields. There is money to be to be made in this. Yeah, you have to hustle a lot. And it's certainly not an easy place to be. But the impact on culture can be so vast, so important, as well. I get emails even now from people from people all over the world. I just had a letter from a young woman who lives in France and who said she read my book - unfortunately, Ayesha At Last has not been translated into French - but she read my book in English and she said she has never seen these types of stories represented where you have Muslim characters who are just living their life, who are falling in love, who are having funny adventures, and dealing with some serious things but also some lovely things, and how important it was to her, how much it meant for her to see this type of representation. And I think what it is, is for so long marginalized communities have been erased. And, like what we were just talking, about the point that you made really beautifully earlier about, the retelling is the way that Jane Austen can be reconfigured to represent different communities … And it's actually been a conversation I think in on Twitter, you know, about all the different diverse retellings? And should they even happen in the first place, which is a different conversation. But, I think …  it comes back to the idea that there was nothing for so long. And I know what it's like to feel like my stories, the things that I think are important, are just never represented on the page or on the screen.Plain JaneThat's really powerful. It's wonderful to hear. ...  you didn't feel there was a place for you and you forged a place. I feel like that's something that Jane Austen characters are doing. They feel left out of the conversation, marginalized, and they find their way in. … But you say something really powerful here, too: We need to talk about romance. So you mentioned also, to quote you again, in the Toronto Star ... that people of color need more romance. What do you mean by that? And how does this come about, when it comes to that representation, that lack of representation, or that negative representation - and romance?Uzma Jalaluddin I think the definition of romance needs to be expanded. Also, there seems to be a bit of a renaissance happening in the romance community, which I'm completely here for. And you know, in Romancelandia, as it's called online, which is the wider community of romance writers, consumers, creators, etc., there's so many up-to-date conversations that have been happening over the years, and I'm a newcomer to this. I've been a lifelong romance reader, but I've kind of stumbled on this community after I became a writer. And it's been fascinating to watch the types of conversations that are happening about race and identity and retellings and consent and just acceptance and tolerance in this very large genre.Plain Jane Yeah, … you said something else really powerful - that art is important. And as a journalist, I also feel that way. I feel like that's why I feel arts journalism, and humanities journalism, is important. Because … journalism is the first draft of history, right? … But to me, the interesting part, and the the heavy, impactful part of our history is not just what happened, but how we processed what happened, how we reacted to what happened, how communities and how individuals felt about what happened, and what we thought about what happened. And that to me, that's where the arts and humanities journalism is. … And so if you're looking at Arts and Humanities and the stories we tell, there's nothing more important right now. There's nothing more important in the last year and a half than how we process that. And that's why that's one reason I put a a microphone on the Jane Austen discussions, because the Jane Austen discussions involved, you know, Ibi Zoboi, and Uzma Jalaluddin, and so many people, Soniah Kamal, making the stories of Jane Austen relevant to today and adapting them to today. So I think that's not only okay, I think it's what is keeping it alive. And I'm also kind of quoting Damianne Scott here. … She says it very beautifully. She says ... Jane Austen doesn't want to be on a pedestal. She wants to be among the people. Uzma Jalaluddin  That is such a good insight. And I've always felt that, and I think that's why Jane Austen has kind of, as I said, traveled with me all my life …And I think Jane Austen, for whatever reason - maybe it's because of that sly wit, the satire, the description of regular everyday life, middle class life, really, and, of course, upper class life - is just so relatable. And I love what you're saying about art, I completely agree. And my take on it is that the art that has been made for decades has only ever focused on the white experience. And yet, that has been incomplete. If journalism is the first draft of history, and the art that is made is answering the questions of, how do we feel about this? We haven't been hearing from a very large segment of our population. And if we had been hearing about them, those voices have been oftentimes dismissed. [A]rt that has been made for decades has only ever focused on the white experience. And yet, that has been incomplete. If journalism is the first draft of history, and the art that is made is answering the questions of, how do we feel about this? We haven't been hearing from a very large segment of our population. And if we had been hearing about them, those voices have been oftentimes dismissed. … Commercial fiction is really where we have these conversations about, what are we obsessed with? What are we interested in? What's the hottest Netflix show? That's where culture is created. Really, [those are] the things that we're kind of thinking about. It's more than a momentary blip, right? It's like the trend in dystopian, the vampire fiction, all of this said something about what we're thinking about as a culture and as a society. And a lot of those stories were written by white authors. And if there are people of color, or if there are Black, indigenous, people of color in those stories, the creators are still largely white authors. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not a proponent of censorship, or anything like that. But I think we have to recognize that there has been traditionally, and culturally speaking, the effect of this has been an erasure of marginalized voices. And so I feel like things are changing slowly. Very, very slowly. But they are changing. And I'm interested in hearing those voices. And so part of that is romance. What does love look like to bring it back full circle?Plain JaneWe interrupted ourselves, but there you go. I was gonna bring it back to romance, but I just will say: Muslim romance,Uzma Jalaluddin  Yes! Which is something that is very rarely, if ever, explored, unless it is through the prism of culture. … So the main character, it's always the same type of storyline: The main character, if it's a woman, is pressed, has to break away from the bonds of her family, and has to basically give up everything about her culture and herself. And embrace the wider, usually North American, Western type of society in this way. She is freed - there's always kind of a white-savior complex type of storyline, or there is a rejection of her own community. I think we have to recognize that there has been traditionally, and culturally speaking, the effect of this has been an erasure of marginalized voices. And so I feel like things are changing slowly. Very, very slowly. But they are changing. And I'm interested in hearing those voices. And so part of that is romance. But Muslim romance, the thing that I'm interested in, is a little bit more nuanced than that. It can be love that's found with another Muslim person, with another person of color. It can be love that is found with someone who isn't Muslim and … it could be perhaps an LGBTQ exploration of this. I want all of the stories. I think we need to have all of these stories that show that the Muslim experience in North America that was an experience globally is not a monolith. My experience as someone who grew up in the ‘90s and early 2000s, in a more conservative Muslim family, is going to be different than someone who's growing up, you know, even in my neighboring country of the United States. But the stories that I write, I usually have two South Asian - both my books feature two South Asian or Muslim characters. And their faith is just the background information about them. They're not having conversations necessarily about, Should I be Muslim, or should I not? Should I take off my hijab? Will my father disown me? They come from loving families, they know who they are, and they're secure in that identity. And the romance really is about other things, you know, and because I write romcoms, they tend to be more situational. Plain JaneI love that. And it's something, as you said, your characters are unapologetically Muslim. And that's really fun to see. … [W]e have to talk about your Darcy character. So your leading man, Khalid … is like Darcy. And he really is like Darcy. But it's funny because … they're both stiff, somewhat formal and awkward, handsome, a little emotionally aloof, for various reasons. But Khalid has a very good reason and it's better than Darcy's reason: Khalid is part of a traditional Islamic community. And following the rules and interested in the rules. And Darcy's reason, as far as I can tell, is just that he's socially awkward. So in some ways, your Khalid and your “Darcy” has much more of a societal underpinning, stronger underpinning, than Darcy, where you're just kind of left at sea, like Elizabeth, thinking, “What's going on with him?” And then here's Ayesha, who doesn't have that question. She knows exactly what's going on with him. And she's got to work through it. So this is so much fun for, as you say, situational comedy. Can you talk about Khalid as Darcy?Uzma Jalaluddin  Khalid is the reason I wrote and I didn't give up on Ayesha At Last. I have to first put that out there, because he is the character that for some reason - this rarely happens for writers - but he just burst into my imagination completely, fully formed. I just knew who he was and knew what he wanted. I just completely understood him. I can't emphasize how rare this is, as someone who's trying to write their third book and I don't know anything about anything right now. It's just very rare. But when I finally … came to the realization that I was writing Pride and Prejudice, late in my drafting, when I finally put that together, that Khalid was Mr. Darcy, it just made so much sense. Because what I'm trying to do through Ayesha At Last is to write a really fun entertaining book that my readers will enjoy. But I'm also trying to engage in a conversation about appearance versus reality. So here's this guy. And I think that's what Jane Austen is trying to do as well. And in so many of her books, right? Here is this person who is judged from the moment that you see him because of the way that he dresses, because of the way that he acts, and the assumptions that the reader themselves might have about this type of person. And Darcy is the same way, right? He's an aristocratic man, everyone thinks that he's proud and he's disdainful. That says more about their own insecurities, though. Admittedly, he is quite rude. In the very beginning.Plain Jane  Of course, yeah ...Uzma Jalaluddin   Classic hero. And Khalid, in his own way, is awkward and bumbling and rude. But on top of the regular social awkwardness of a classic, romantic hero, we have that layer of his Muslim-ness. And his Muslim-ness comes out in very overt symbols that make the people surrounding him very uncomfortable, because he is really comfortable in the way that he embraces his faith. I purposely made him almost like a cartoonish Muslim guy. Like he was wearing a long white robe to work and a skullcap, he had an unkempt beard. And I did all this on purpose. I made him an extra on homeland. And yet I decided to put it in my book, because I wanted to throw this in my reader's face - and the Muslims and the non-Muslim readers: This is this is your villain. This is the guy that you've been trained to be afraid of. Look at how hot he is. Look at how sexy he is. Look at how romantic he is.Plain JaneI will make you fall in love!Uzma Jalaluddin Exactly, exactly. And in that way, I had a lot of fun deconstructing the Muslim man archetype. Because I live with Muslim men. I'm raising two Muslim men. I've been married to a Muslim man for nearly 20 years (he refuses to grow a beard, I keep trying to get him to grow one. He's not interested!) I have a brother, I have a loving father. I have uncles. And I never saw the men that I interact with on a daily basis, who were Muslim, really adequately represented in the wholeness of their person and their humanity. And I wanted to correct that. ...Plain JaneWhen it comes to Muslim romance, you have some interesting developments in Ayesha At Last. One thing that's interesting is that - I don't know if you would call her a white character, Caucasian character, if that's what she is - Clara? Her boyfriend Rob is super sluggish about proposing and he can't get his act together and Khalid, our hero, helps Clara negotiate a proposal and a dowry? And I don't know what you were wanting readers to get from this, if anything, but it had me wondering whether ... there are some things in traditional Muslim cultures and religious cultures that you think are helpful to women? That seemed to be what was being depicted. And if that is something that's probably worth unpacking -  that complicated aspect of rituals, and the rituals that we all embark on, whether we like it or not. They're in our culture.Uzma Jalaluddin Yeah, I never thought of it that way. I, to be honest, I just thought it would be really funny to have the girl get a rishta from her boyfriend, who she's been living with for five years. And the guy who sends her the rishta is this bearded Muslim man. I-  just in my head, right? Because I have to keep going! - and these jokes just keep me going. I did all this on purpose. I made him an extra on homeland. And yet I decided to put it in my book, because I wanted to throw this in my reader's face - and the Muslims and the non-Muslim readers: This is this is your villain. This is the guy that you've been trained to be afraid of. Look at how hot he is. Look at how sexy he is. Look at how romantic he is.But I think there's a lot of merit in what you said. Yeah, of course, cultures can learn from each other and gain certain positives and negatives. As much as I've learned, you know, from from my wider Western upbringing in Canada  -  I'm just as Canadian as I am South Asian, as I am Muslim, right? There's so much about all of these cultures that I've learned from, and hopefully other people can pick up from this. And really what Khalid is exhorting Rob to do is, say, “Why aren't you having this conversation? It's very obvious that Clara has been trying to hint to you for a very long time, why aren't you picking up the hand? It's time to, you know, figure this out, you're going to lose her. And if that is the consequence for your inattention that's on you. But here, let's just, let's just be completely upfront about this.” And I think this is someone who is very direct, I really appreciate this about South Asian marital practices. And I have to point out that the rishta process is South Asian, it's not really a Muslim thing. Okay, other cultures who are Muslim, they might have like a different marital custom. But it's a very South Asian practice, rishta, which is a proposal, like an arranged-marriage proposal. I really appreciate the directness of it. There's always a goal. It's like, we're not just casually dating. We're dating because we want to know if we can build a life together. And if that life together involves marriage, because that's what you want to do, that's fine. But, like, this isn't just for seeing each other, and let's see where this goes. No, no, there's none of that: There's a deadline within a certain amount of time. You've got to figure this out. And ... that's what Khalid brings to the table here. Plain Jane Rob will never change. That's the way Rob is always going to be - somebody's always gonna have to be strong and basically put it on the table. [O]ne thing that I had in my notes Uzma … that kind of made me laugh when I looked back and saw this in my notes, was, “We need to be talking more about Khadija.” You mentioned the wife of the Prophet Muhammad. Can you tell us about her and why she has an appearance in Ayesha At Last?Uzma Jalaluddin  Growing up I went to Sunday school, and you know, all of the type of stories that you learn, you know, like I'm sure Christian children are taught Bible stories, and Muslim kids are taught Muslim stories. So one of the stories that we're always told is that Prophet Muhammad was married to his first wife - because she died, and he later remarried - was a woman named Khadija, and she really liked Muhammad, peace be upon him. She really liked him, so much that she proposed marriage to him. And she was 15 years older than him. And actually, he was one of the traders that she hired. So he was actually working for her at the time. But she was really impressed by his honesty and his trustworthiness and his authenticity. And so, as you do, she was just straight up and said, “I'm interested in you. Are you interested in me? Let's get married.” And he accepted. And, you know, the traditional story was that he was extremely happy with his wife, even though he was 25, and she was 40. They were married for 15 years before she died. .. [W]hen he received revelation from God, as the traditional mythology goes, she was the first person who accepted Islam, the first person who supported him and believed him, and was his partner in all things - an equal partner, and in fact a more successful partner because she was the one who was the hard-headed businesswoman, who was kind of running things. And I just thought this story is not well known, I don't think, by a lot of people who aren't familiar with the Muslim faith. And it just goes to show you that there's so much emphasis on the darkness of the way that Muslims are portrayed around the world, that there's no room for these lighthearted stories. And that's really what I wanted to get across in Ayesha At Last. Muslims can fall in love too. We need our romance stories, need our love stories, just as much as any other community. Maybe even more, because we've had so much darkness heaped on us by the actions of some people who have done extremely violent things. But also [by the] decisions of other people who have portrayed Muslims, over and over again, as violent extremists.-----Thank you for being here, Austen Connection friends.Let us know: Are you a reader of romance, Muslim romance, and retellings? What are your favorites? Did this conversation inspire you to think differently about contemporary romance, romcoms, and the stories we tell, and what it all has to do with Jane Austen? Have you read Ayesha At Last and/or Hana Khan Carries On? And/or, what are your recommendations for the Thanksgiving holiday, if that's a thing where you live? And if not, let us know your weekend reading plans? Comment below!As always, you can find us right here, on Twitter at @AustenConnect, and on Facebook and Insta at @austenconnection.Meanwhile, have a beautiful weekend. Wishing you all the light, joy, and romance,Plain JaneCool links:Here's more on Uzma Jalaluddin's books and bio at her website: https://uzmajalaluddin.com/Here is another Muslim writer whom Ms. Jalaluddin recommends: Ayisha Malik: https://www.ayishamalik.com/bioAnd check out the Muslim comedy and romance in the work of Huda Fahmy, also recommended by Ms. Jalaluddin: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Yes-Im-Hot-in-This/Huda-Fahmy/9781507209349Here's Uzma Jalaluddin's Toronto Star column about writers of color breaking through: https://www.thestar.com/life/parent/opinion/2021/09/21/as-a-parent-teacher-and-writer-i-urge-creators-of-colour-to-raise-their-voices-in-the-arts.htmlAnd this Toronto Star column is on romance and writing the light rather than the darkness: https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/books/opinion/2021/04/05/dis-romance-all-you-like-i-choose-to-write-happy-funny-stories-as-a-light-against-the-darkness.htmlIf you enjoyed this post and conversation, feel free to share it! Get full access to The Austen Connection at austenconnection.substack.com/subscribe

Dear Jane friends,It's Tuesday, and not our usual Thursday, because we have something special for you: Today, we are kicking off a second season of the podcast! We have some amazing conversations lined up for you, dropping on Thursdays over the next few weeks - so make sure you are signed up for this newsletter, and each conversation will drop right into your inbox. You can listen right here (click Play!) or find the podcast on Spotify or Apple.And today, we interrupt our October month of horrors for a romantic, soulful interlude … about Jane Austen's most romantic, soulful story.We're talking with playwright Sarah Rose Kearns, an actor, Janeite, and playwright whose adaptation of Persuasion is showing in an Off-Broadway production through the end of the month.We recently spoke with Kearns for this Christian Science Monitor piece, and when we caught up with her by Zoom on a recent Saturday night she told us she feels like Anne Elliot has been her imaginary friend for half her life.Can we relate, friends?It seems to me like many of us feel - like biographer Claire Tomalin told us she does - that Austen's characters are indeed our intimate friends. And have been for a very long time, if we're lucky.As a writer, Sarah Rose Kearns has an answer to why this is: She attributes this intimacy partly to Austen's literary technique known as “free indirect discourse,” which takes us right into the mind of the character. My very favorite part of this conversation might be the part about the music included in Kearns's stage play - including the folk song “The Saucy Sailor,” featuring in this episode a version of the ditty by Canadian folk trio The Wailin' Jennys. Kearns also talked about some of our favorite themes of Jane Austen that come out strong in Persuasion - such as the feeling not only of longing and loss, but also of displacement, abandonment, and what Kearns called “the quest for a stable home.” Enjoy this Austen Connection podcast episode with Sarah Rose Kearns on taking Jane Austen's most heartbreaking, soulful, most painful and pining, and deeply romantic story - and putting all that on stage. And, friends, tell us: What is your favorite theme in the story of Anne Elliot and Captain Wentworth? What is your favorite part of the novel - is it The Letter? Do you feel that Anne Elliot is the perfect imaginary friend? And what did you think of The Wailin Jennys' version of “The Saucy Sailor” featured in this episode?Does anyone out there plan to be at the play, at Bedlam theater in NYC? The Austen Connection will be there on Friday, Oct. 22, for the TalkBack - come by and see us! And, watch for brand new Season 2 podcast episodes, dropping on Thursdays! Coming up: author Vanessa Riley about her latest book Island Queen, author Uzma Jalaluddin on her Pride and Prejudice retelling Ayesha at Last, Damianne Scott on her own retelling of Persuasion and her popular Facebook page “Black Girl Loves Jane,” and next week a special Halloween edition that continues our October month of Horrors, with Professor Maria De Blassey, about ordinary gothic, everyday magic, romance, and what it all has to do with Jane Austen - that's next Thursday! Sign up for the newsletter, and all these conversations arrive right to your inbox. And meanwhile, friends, stay healthy, warm, and happy, and stay in touch with us at the Austen Connection.Yours truly,Plain Jane If you liked this post, feel free to share it, friend! Cool Links:The Persuasion play website: https://www.janeaustenspersuasion.com/The current Bedlam production website: https://bedlam.org/persuasion/Jocelyn Harris's book A Revolution Almost Beyond Expression: Jane Austen's ‘Persuasion': https://www.jocelynharris.co.nz/work/revolution-almost-beyond-expression-jane-austens-persuasion/Paula Byrne's The Genius of Jane Austen, about Jane Austen and the theater: https://paulabyrne.com/books/Here's the Andrew Davies talk at Chapman University that is mentioned in this conversation: Get full access to The Austen Connection at austenconnection.substack.com/subscribe

Hello dear friends,Welcome to another week of The Austen Connection and our sixth podcast episode, which you can stream from right here, or from Apple or Spotify! And this episode features a conversation with Austen scholar and Janeite Devoney Looser - who for many of you captures the spirit and vibe of Jane Austen's stories in her work and in her life: Looser has dedicated so much of her life to connecting through literature and Jane Austen, from her books, her teaching, her many appearances at conferences and at Janeite and JASNA gatherings, and also in her personal life through her marriage to Austen scholar George Justice and her roller derby career as Stone Cold Jane Austen.These days Devoney Looser is working on a new book, due out from Bloomsbury next year: Sister Novelists: Jane and Anna Maria Porter in the Age of Austen explores two sister novelists writing, innovating, and breaking rules in the Regency and Victorian eras. Devoney Looser is also the author of The Making of Jane Austen. And - full transparency here - I'm lucky enough to call Devoney Looser a friend. We met as professors on a campus in Missouri. So this is a continuation of conversations that Devoney and I have had for years. We got together by Zoom a few weeks ago and talked about many things, including the first time she read Austen, how an Austen argument was the foundation of her first conversation with her husband, and how -  just like Jane Austen - Devoney straddles the worlds of both high culture and pop culture.Here's an excerpt from our conversation. Enjoy!Plain Jane:  So let me just start if you don't mind with a couple of just questions about your personal Austen journey. What Austen did you first read? When did you discover Austen? Do you remember which book? And which time and place? Devoney Looser: Absolutely. And this is a question that I really enjoy. It's a kind of conversion question, right? … So I love that this is where we start …  I do have my awakening moment. And your awakening, I think this is a common story for a lot of Janeites, which is why the story resonates. It was my mother, who handed me a copy of Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice bound together. I now have this book. It was a Modern Library edition of both of those novels that was published in the ‘50s. And she handed it to me because … she knew I was a reader, she knew I loved to read. And she said, “Here's one that I think you should read.” We had books from her childhood, or from church book sales in our house, we had a lot of books in our house. And I started to try to read it. And I really stumbled because I could not get at the language. But she was insistent, she kept kind of putting it toward me, and saying, “I think you should read this one.” And I think it was maybe around the third time I tried it - Pride and Prejudice is what I started with - it just really took. You know, it was like, Oh, wait this is kind of funny. And I like these characters. And I like the story. So after I got my PhD, I learned that my mother had actually never read Pride and Prejudice before. And to me that actually made her giving it to me even more meaningful. She is not college educated. She wanted me to have an education. And the idea that novels could be handed down from mothers to daughters, even mothers without an education, to say, “Here's a way for you to have access to more opportunities,” is what the books are about too, in a way, right? I mean, the mothers aren't always the ones doing it in the books. In fact, they're often not. But the books are functioning as that opening up - worlds opening up possibilities and opening up education, self actualization. You know that this is to me meaningful that my mother knew that this is a book that educated girls should read, and that she wanted it for me. Plain Jane: She was tapping into something that she hadn't had herself and just trying to give that to you. That's awesome. So you're a professor, scholar, writer. … What attracts you to the conversations about Jane Austen, and teaching Jane Austen? Devoney Looser: I think the thing about Austen that keeps me coming back to her is how readable she is. And lots of people say this in the critical community and the Janeite community like the scholars and JASNA. I think even anyone who picks her up casually having not read her in 20 years or never read it before, there's a complexity there on the level of the sentences, paragraph, plot, that is really, to me. enriching, or generative - it generates ideas. And every time I go back to the books, I see something new. every age, every experience that I've made it through, gives me a new way into those sentences. And there are a lot of books that we love, but that we can't really imagine rereading with the same level of love, I think. And for me, that makes Austen just really remarkable. The idea that you can go back to her, you know, every year. A lot of people who love her books read her every year, all six every year. Do you know that joke from Gilbert Ryle, the philosopher, philosopher Gilbert Ryle was asked, this is a century ago, asked, “Sir, do you do you read novels?” And he said, “Yes, I do, all six every year.” So this is this is a good Janeite in-joke, that the only novels there are these six? Obviously not true. … But the relatability is how I would I would answer that.Plain Jane: So I mean, Jane Austen can be, like you say, kind of adapted to your life as you go through different things in life. But you, with The Making of Jane Austen have really documented how not only individuals can adapt Jane Austen to their lives, but movements can adapt Jane Austen to their causes and ... we see that in kind of exciting ways. Can you talk a little bit about why her? Why are her novels so adaptable throughout the last couple of hundred years?Devoney Looser: So I know you know this, I talked about this in The Making of Jane Austen about the ways that various people have very different political persuasions find a reflection of their values or questions or concerns in her novels. So she has been used to argue opposing sides of political questions for 150 years and probably longer. I think this was partly to do with the fact that her novels and her fiction open up questions more often than they close them. And I think it's her relationship to the didactic tradition in her day, the moralizing tradition. I think she's really stepping outside of that and more interested in gray areas, than in declaring what's right and what's wrong. So I think this is a beautiful, complex thing about her novels and they're novels of genius, to my mind, and I'm not afraid to use that word. But they also present certain kinds of really interesting challenges, because you can't go to them and say, “What should I think?” They don't really answer that question for you in a clear away. I think in other kinds of didactic fiction where there's a clear moral outcome, this person's punished with death, or, you know, or some kind of tragic outcome, or this person's rewarded, and it's all going to be, you know, happily ever after, and nothing ever is going to go wrong. Her novels are working outside of that to some degree. So I do think that that's one reason why people have very different experiences and political persuasions and motivations, come to her novels, and it can be kind of like a Rorschach test, right? You can see what you want to see in the designs to some degree. Now, I do think people can get it wrong, I think you can find there are arguments that people make that I think there is absolutely no textual evidence for that whatsoever. But oftentimes, I can look at someone coming to a conclusion that might be different from the one that I reached, and say, Well, I see where you can get that from emphasizing this point, more than this one, or seeing this passage as the crucial one, instead of another passage.I think this is a beautiful, complex thing about her novels and they're novels of genius, to my mind, and I'm not afraid to use that word. But they also present certain kinds of really interesting challenges, because you can't go to them and say, “What should I think?” They don't really answer that question for you in a clear away.Plain Jane It's also occurring to me listening to you Devoney, that she sort of makes people think, in ways that might be uncomfortable. She must be one of the few novelists that can actually draw you to her story, draw you in and draw you to that narrator. But also be uncomfortable, maybe with what she's giving you. And maybe we just stepped around the discomfort some of us. Do you think that's an accurate way of thinking about Jane Austen as well?Devoney Looser: I think that's beautifully put. And, you know, I think too we can read her novels on many different levels. If you say, I want to go into this for a love story, that's funny, with a happy ending, which is what many people who read in the romance genre know the formula, and they're going to it because they like the formula. And it might have different things in different component parts. But you know that at the end you're not going to be distressed and dealing with something tragic, right? So when you go into an Austen novel, the kinds of discomfort you're describing, that they will be there along with something happy, too. So I think you could just read it for the happy ending. [But] I see that as a real lost opportunity. Because I think the happy endings are tacked on from genre expectation about comedies. If you're focusing on the happy ending, you're missing all the important stuff that's happening all along the way. And that's the uncomfortable stuff, right? The stuff about family conflict, economics, all of the kinds of ways that people are terrible to each other, that are, maybe borderline criminal or actually criminal. But everything below that, too. That's more mundane, the way that people mistreat each other. That is wrong. It's not criminal. And that, to me, is what makes these novels uncomfortable, is that even those people who are doing terrible things, usually get away with it. Plain Jane: Hmm, yes. If you said to people, Here's a novel about the insult and injury endured by women because of class and gender - and possibly you can add race and disability and a lot of other boundaries in there” -  I don't know how many people would see that as Jane Austen. But there's that subtext. … The more I read and reread Jane Austen and just stay really close to the text, the more I find myself relying on Gilbert and Gubar and their “cover story.” And it's, you know, I read that a long time ago. So it's probably influencing my reading, I say close to the text, but it's close to the text that's very influenced by what I already have read of you, and is it Sandra Gilbert and Susan Gubar…. How much do you think she was consciously or even unconsciously saying stuff? In all that meandering, within that courtship plot and then within that happy ending plot that you just described? How much do you think was going on with that cover story?Devoney Looser: So I want to first start with the end of this, which is to say, I think every sentence is saying something else. You know, and not like it's a secret ...I think there are there are people who will say that this is a code for a completely other world below the surface. I'm not sure that I would go there. But I do think that these are novels that are trying to get us to investigate not only who the characters are, but who we are. And sonthere's always something else going on in any human conversation. There's always something else going on. And I think she captures that in the conversations among her characters, that they can be having the same conversation but with such varying motivations that you can see it and it becomes humorous. You know, Henry Tilney in Northanger Abbey, talking to Mrs. Allen, about Catherine Morland's chaperone about muslin, that whole conversation about clothing and shopping. You can read that as a love of fashion, you can read it as an indictment of consumer culture, you can read it as a kind of gender cosplay, or you can use it as an indictment of femininity. I mean, there's just so many different levels within the same conversation and you can try to understand how these characters are arguing with each other. So I think in some ways, what you're getting at is, Yes, there's something beneath the surface. So the text that you brought up, Gilbert and Gubar's The Madwoman in the Attic, I think that came out in 1979 - incredibly important book. Because a lot of second wave feminism, 60s and 70s, had said Jane Austen is not a primary author for us or not an author that can be as important to the second wave, because these novels end in marriage. And it was a moment in the feminist movement, when looking for something that expressed anger, that expressed alternative lifestyles, was seen as more important than reinforcing heteronormativity, which is what Austen was imagined as doing. So what I think what Gilbert and Gubar did is allowed for feminists and feminist critics and scholars and people beyond that circle, to look at Austen and say, “What if we didn't emphasize the ending? What if we emphasize the other parts of the story?” And of course, they took that to a lot of other different texts and the “madwoman” in the attic is actually a reference, as you know, to Jane Eyre, to Bertha Mason? What if you read Jane Eyre and centered Bertha Mason, which is of course exactly what Jean Rhys did in her novel Wide Sargasso Sea. But Gilbert and Gubar gave us a framework to say, “Let's look at the parts of these novels from a feminist perspective that maybe we haven't focused on.” And I think it opened up so much possibility for Austen, reading it through that lens of saying,”Maybe there's more here than the ending. Maybe there's more here than heteronormativity. There is a lot more going on.” And I'm really grateful to that book for doing that. I do think there is some tendency now to turn it all into, “Well, it doesn't mean this, it means this exactly the opposite.” To me, that's doing exactly what we shouldn't be doing. We're just closing down the text. … “Here's a clue. Now we'll find an answer. Now we've got this new clue, solve next mystery.” These are not mysteries with solutions. They are moral quagmires - and you can't solve a moral quagmire with a fact or an answer.Plain Jane: I love that. I love the way you say, “Don't shut down the text.” I love the way you describe that 1979 Madwoman in the Attic, because you're right. They were just, I guess at a time when you know, feminism was wearing Doc Martens and reading Hemingway … Devoney Looser: … and reading Kate Millett and Sexual Politics: Let's find the sexism. It was a sexism-identification moment, which is really important because a lot of people couldn't see it until people like Millett and others said, “Oh my gosh, there's sexism here in every single book, how do we not notice this?” Plain Jane: Yeah. And they were saying, These are women's lives, let's interrogate what's happening with stories by women, about women, really going in depth in their lives. And they happen to be genius, as well. You know, Devoney, you also say, in your book, The Making of Jane Austen, that Jane Austen has, in many ways, been the making of you. This is getting back to you a little bit, Devoney. In what ways is Jane Austen and the making of you? I know a few of those ways. But why did you write that? Devoney Looser: Well, I think, again, this is the reason this story resonates with people is because all of us who care about literature, and who allow books to lead us places, probably had moments like this. Mine is slightly more bizarre than most people's in that I now make a living from reading Jane Austen. And as you said, I read lots of other things, too. I read Jane Austen in the context of the history of women's writing, which has been very opening up of territory for me as a scholar, and I help lead people to read outside of her. But I've also been able to create a romantic life that started around conversations with her - and I know you know, this - that I met my husband, George Justice is also an Austen scholar. We met over a conversation and an argument on Jane Austen's books. Plain Jane: What were you arguing about again? What book? Was it Mansfield Park?Devoney Looser: It was Mansfield Park. So my husband George and I were introduced at a cocktail party that I was crashing. … And George had actually been invited. And we had a brief conversation that ended, but he came and found me because somebody said to him that I had worked on Jane Austen. And so he said, “I hear you work on Jane Austen. What's your favorite Jane Austen novel?” And I know, you know, George, Janet. So you know that he likes to ask these kind of puncturing questions, right. … … And I said, “Well, the one that I'm working on right now is Northanger Abbey.” And he said, “I didn't ask you which one you're working on. I asked you which one's your favorite.” He heard that I was working on it. But he wanted me to make an aesthetic, you know, you want to make a judgement about which one's the best. … So I said, Well, I guess my favorite is Pride and Prejudice. And George said very proudly, “Well, my favorite is Mansfield Park. … And so I said, “Well, Mansfield Park is my least favorite. And I like it the least because I don't like the heroine. Fanny Price is too much like me. She's boring. Plain Jane: You said that?!Devoney Looser: Yes. And George said at that moment that he said to himself in his head, “I'm gonna marry this woman.” So you really need to hear his side of it. I just thought, this guy's kind of needling me. And I'm shutting down his meddling with, you know, disarming honesty and sarcasm. But you know, I do mean it, I did at the time. I really felt like a very shy person and quiet person and I had more class sympathies with Fanny Price of all of Jane Austen's heroines. But I didn't like those parts myself. I didn't like being quiet and timid, and didn't appreciate her as a character, I think, in a way that I now do. But he did end up proposing to me that night. And I said, “No.” I said, “I don't believe in the institution of marriage.” But whatever. What I can say is that he was very persuasive. And within about a month we decided we'd have a Jane-Fairfax-and-Frank-Churchill-style secret engagement. And we got married. We got married about a year later. So George is very persuasive. Plain Jane: That's awesome. I did not know that he had proposed and that you had declined on that same evening. And I love it that you relate to Fanny Price and find that kind of complicated. Now I have to say, you have told me that story, Devoney. And I had forgotten the details about Fanny Price. But I learned them again, from the First impressions podcast, where they were talking about you on that podcast, and that you related to Fanny Price. And that got me thinking about who people relate to in Jane Austen novels. And I feel like Jane Austen is putting herself  - I feel like all authors, for much of the time -  are putting themselves in not just the positive aspects of characters … She's even probably in Mrs. Norris a little bit, you know? Think of your worst person, you know? There's a part of her that wants to be Lady Bertram, probably. And there's certainly a part of her that's Fanny Price. And there's certainly a part of her that's Emma, who's also a difficult character. So anyway …  does George love Fanny Price?Devoney Looser: I think George loves underdogs who triumph. And I think to him, he likes the idea of people who weren't born to it sticking up for themselves. And he likes the idea of there being greater opportunity for people who weren't necessarily born to opportunity. And I think that's the story of his grandparents and his parents. So I think that's where he came to the love of that particular plot, out of stories from his own family. Plain Jane: So we are talking about, we've been talking about, the way people take on Jane Austen for their causes. You also talk about the fact that Jane Austen has ... carried pop culture and high culture simultaneously. Almost maybe like almost no other artist, maybe Shakespeare can carry those two at the same time. And you also walk both of those worlds. Can you talk a little bit about that? How are we doing with those two things right now? I mean, Jane Austen's probably bigger than ever before, right, today? And are we kind of bringing the high culture of the scholarly and the fandom together in interesting ways? And in productive ways?Devoney Looser: Yeah, that's such a great question. And the “greater than ever before,” quite possibly, if only because of how communication is greater than ever before, right? … But there were moments where she definitely popped in popular culture before now, you know, millions of people saw that Broadway play in 1935 that moved to the West End in London, the next year. This was another moment of Austen pop culture saturation. Where I think if we were able to compare it, then, to now we might say she was in the imagination of the cultural imagination to a pretty great degree in these other moments, too. But let's not go there - now I'm in the weeds! But I do think there is something about being in both worlds that really speaks to my sense of our responsibility as scholars to be educators, but also to be trying to understand the world outside of the academy and seeing that as a talking across, not a talking down. And there are moments where it's easier for scholars to remember that than others, but the talking across has really made new scholarly ideas possible. For me, this is a divided identity. I think you're capturing that accurately in how you describe it, Janet, but I want to make sure that I'm saying it's not a one way street for me. When we talk about teaching, those of us who are educators, we talk about learning from our students, and people often roll their eyes at that … But I think back to an old, classic and educational theory of Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed, where he talks about differently located learners. And the Janeite community through JASNA has definitely brought home to me the ways that differently located learners can inspire each other, and teach each other. And I think that is just really, really crucial. And I love that Jane Austen has made this possible.Plain Jane: You know, we're in a way a lot of what we're talking about is her image. And how, you know, there's a lot under the surface of the Courtship and the Marriage Plot, that you've researched this, and written about it in The Making of Jane Austen. In what ways did her family contribute to this image? Can you talk a little bit about that? And why - why were they trying to create, if I have this right, a respectable sort of Aunt Jane? Do you feel like this is what she also would have perhaps wanted? I mean, class insult, class injury can be humiliating, and I feel like perhaps also Louisa May Alcott, some of these women writers who were writing for money, maybe did want to be seen first and foremost, as respectable. What do you think was going on with the family members painting her image?Devoney Looser: I think this is a really difficult, multi-layered question. And I, of course, have different ways of answering this. But I think that the ways that her family described her, were trying to head off criticism. And I think if you look at the ways that women writers were treated in this period, you can understand why they wanted to head off the criticism. They very much wanted her not to be seen as strident Bluestocking, morally suspect. They very much wanted to put her on the side of … the polite, the proper, the lady .... Not the bitter spinster, not the ugly woman who couldn't get married or who was having all sorts of morally questionable behaviors with men. But the woman who was very much doing the “femininity”, quote-unquote, 1810s and the 1820s. So at first, I think that's what her family is up to. And the extent to which she would have been excited about that, I don't know. But it does seem quite possible that she would have endorsed staying to the side of that. Because in the same way that 70s feminists brought us to see the ways that language was about Virgins and W****s - not that no one had ever noticed this. But I think in Second Wave feminism, the Women's Studies classes, let us look at the words that were used to describe women and their sexual experiences, and say, “Wow, this is really unbelievable,” right? So I think if we take that and we move that conversation back 150 years, I think the Austens were wise to the fact that you were not allowed to be anything other than one or the other. And it was very clear what you wanted to be if your choice was to be castigated as the woman writer so who is more virgin-like, or the woman writer who is more W***e-like, of course, she wanted to be on the side of the Virgin. It's a crime that this existed, right? It's a linguistic crime. But if you're a family trying to negotiate the reputation of your relative at the same time that some of you are clergymen and trying to make your way forward in polite society, titled society, elite society, of course ... She's a Public Woman. Those words aren't supposed to go together. You want to put her to the side of the one who wasn't looking for money, the one who wasn't looking for fame, the one who wasn't too learned. She was nice. She was doing this for her family. She wasn't doing this for fame or money, you see that? Already, you're talking about sides of a question, where putting your eggs in one basket results in a different outcome. So the extent to which Austen herself wanted that, what would be desirable of being on the other side of that? Very little, right?Plain Jane: Listening to you talk makes me really understand that so much more. And also realize that in a way they were doing what Jane Austen seemed to do with her novels, which was to keep herself out of it. And maybe she's not as out of it on the third and fourth rereading as we thought she was on the first rereading. But she's kind of keeping herself out of it and just letting the story, letting the characters, say what she really doesn't want to be seen saying particularly, perhaps.Devoney Looser: You know that I'm working on two contemporaries of Jane Austen, Jane and Anna Maria Porter. I'm writing this book, Sister Novelists: Jane and Anna Maria Porter in the Age of Austen. And where for Austen, we have 161 letters of hers [that] have survived. So when we try to say, “What did Jane Austen think?” The novels give us a certain amount to go on. But a lot of us say, well, “What did she say in her letters where we can assume that she was being more of a quote-unquote, authentic self?” … But the idea that we only have 161 of these to go on; for the Porter sisters, they were both novelists. And they wrote thousands of letters, which they painstakingly preserved. And so to be able to go through these thousands of letters between these two sisters who are looking at literary culture through the eyes of public women and literary women, and looking at the ways that they describe the things that they want people to believe and what they're actually doing behind the scenes, has been really illuminating for me. And I hope other people will be interested in reading about that too, people who are interested in Austen, people who are interested in the early 19th century and Regency culture, Victorian culture, because the Porter sisters lived longer than Jane Austen did. [And] the ways that they tried to navigate making decisions with agency and with, specifically, female agency and romantic agency and a culture that said that, as Austen puts it, their only power should be the power of refusal. And they, the Porter sisters, were doing things all the time that you weren't supposed to do. And we know it because they were writing about it with each other. They were innovators in historical fiction. And Jane Porter claimed, I think with with some accuracy, that she was the one who influenced and inspired Sir Walter Scott's Waverley, which was published in 1814. Plain Jane: Wow, you had us at Hello - our sisters writing to each other, during the Regency and beyond, and they have each other, they're doing historic fiction. I mean, I just think hashtag-Regency is going to blow up over these two sisters! I think that sounds like a lot of fun. I just feel like there is a hunger to broaden out these conversations, and you can see it, the conversations are being broadened out in such exciting ways, especially right now. Books, like The Woman of Colour, and then every conversation we can have about Bridgerton -  like anything to do with the Regency and people's lives and especially the lives that we're uncovering that have been overlooked: Women writers, Black citizens of the Regency in Britain, and it's just and so many others. It's just really exciting. So I feel like there's a hunger for these conversations. Devoney Looser: And I think it's absolutely crucial and important that we start to try to understand race relations in the early 19th century. And think about why we care about them so much. Now, that's what literature should do. I get really frustrated when people want to tell us that we're taking questions from the present and popping them back falsely under the past. This is not at all we're doing. Things are popping in our moment that we can see, we're also popping in Austen's moment. ,,, Maybe she doesn't write about them to the degree that some of us would now wish she had. But these questions are there. And we are having a real opportunity, through scholars like Gretchen Gerzina and Patricia Matthew, and others who are helping us look back to the abolition movement, look back to texts, like The Woman of Colour, which Lyndon Dominique edited in a fabulous edition for Broadview Press that everybody should run out and buy. This is a novel from 1809, an anonymous novel. All of these works are giving us new opportunities to read Austen in terms of race issues that were important in her own day and to her novels. And for very good reasons have popped up in ours, so I'm excited about the opportunity to open up these questions.I do think there is something about being in both worlds that really speaks to my sense of our responsibility as scholars to be educators, but also to be trying to understand the world outside of the academy and seeing that as a talking-across, not a talking-down. And there are moments where it's easier for scholars to remember that than others. But the talking across has really made new scholarly ideas possible.Plain Jane: And some of this is historians also - Gretchen Gerzina, in a previous episode, alerted me to the National Trust report that was done documenting the ties to the slave trade in the Great Houses in England. Such a simple thing, really. And very much a historic enterprise, not a political enterprise in any sense, other than [that] everything is political. But that's exciting. And then you've also contributed to this conversation about the legacy of slavery and the ties to the slave trade in the Austen family. Do you want to talk about that at all? I mean, this is something that's just been published in The Times Literary Supplement and then picked up a lot of places. Do you want to just give a takeaway on what was going on with your research on that and what you'd like people to keep in mind when they think about Austen's family and the slave trade?Devoney Looser: Absolutely. So the May 21 issue of the Times Literary Supplement, which is a weekly newspaper that anyone who cares about literature should subscribe to … I am very honored to have published it. I did a piece on Austen and abolition, looking deeply and very minutely into the Austen family's relationship to slavery and abolition. And people are asking a question now, “Was Austen pro-slavery or anti-slavery? Was the author's family pro-slavery or anti-slavery?” And because of things like the National Trust report that you just mentioned, and a freely available database called the Legacies of Slavery that's run out of UCL by a scholar named Catherine Hall and a team. This is a freely available database, George Austen's name shows up in that database, because he was a trustee for a sugar plantation in Antigua that was owned by somebody who was probably a student at Oxford. So this is the fact that we had, and that has been repeated, that Austen's implicated in the economics of slavery. And what my piece did, is tried to look at what that means, and to try to deepen that conversation. And what I, the takeaway, for me is that the Austen family can be described as both pro-slavery and anti-slavery. And this is probably true for a lot of 19th century families, frankly, where you would have members who were on different sides, quote-unquote, of these questions. But the moment we try to turn it into sides, we're missing an opportunity for further description and nuance. And what my piece shows is that George Austen probably never benefited financially from this trusteeship. He was a co-trustee. And I go into a lot of description about that. And that years afterward, 80 years after that, Henry Thomas Austen, we never noticed this before: Henry Thomas Austen was a delegate to an anti-slavery convention. So we have a member of the immediate Austen family, a political activist, against the institution of slavery and with the anti-slavery movement. So to me, this tells us that the Austen family was both of these things. And I think it's an additional piece of information for us to understand the ways that race and slavery come into Austen's novels and the ways that she is working with the difficulties and complexities of this issue that was central to the moment she lived in.Plain Jane: What do you love most about introducing people to Austen? And what surprises you when you teach - in the classroom, or in Great Courses, from people that you hear from all the many Janeite and fandom conversations that you so graciously, drop in on Zoom with? What do you love about introducing people to Jane Austen?Devoney Looser: Yeah, so these 24 30-minute lectures I did for the Great Courses, which is interestingly just rebranded itself as Wondrium. But I say there, and I say this at the beginning of my classes as well: I love these books. And I love the ways that these books have inspired me to be a better thinker and have created certain things in my life that have become possible and meaningful to me. But it is absolutely not required to me that anyone in my class come out loving them like I do. What I want is for students to find that thing that is meaningful to them. And that generates meaning for them - that's generative, to go back to that word again. And I think when students take me at my word, I'm very grateful. I want them to read closely and think about these things. But it is absolutely not required that they see in them what I see.—————Thank you for reading, listening and being here, my friends. Please stay safe and enjoy your remaining days of summer. We'll be back next week - and it's all about my conversation with definitive Austen biographer Claire Tomalin! I caught her at home, safe, enjoying her garden during the pandemic, and I'll share our conversation here, same time, same place, next week! Below are many of the authors that Devoney mentioned in this conversation, with links to finding out more.If you enjoyed this conversation, please do share it!And if you'd like to have more conversations like these dropped in your inbox, subscribe - it's free! More Reading and Cool Links:Gilbert and Gubar's The Madwoman in the Attic: https://www.npr.org/2013/01/17/169548789/how-a-madwoman-upended-a-literary-boys-clubPaulo Freire and The Pedagogy of the Oppressed: https://www.freire.org/paulo-freire/paulo-freire-biography/Gretchen Gerzina - https://gretchengerzina.com/about-gretchen-gerzina.htmlLyndon Dominque, editor: The Woman of Colour: https://broadviewpress.com/product/the-woman-of-colour/#tab-descriptionPatricia Matthew: https://www.montclair.edu/newscenter/experts/dr-patricia-matthew/UCL slavery database: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/ Devoney Looser's website: http://www.devoneylooser.com/The Wondrium/Great Courses on Jane Austen: www.thegreatcourses.com/janeausten Get full access to The Austen Connection at austenconnection.substack.com/subscribe

Professor Danielle Christmas is a scholar in English and Comparative Literature at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In her day-job, she researches serious topics about race and history, from white nationalism to the legacy of slavery and the Holocaust, and how issues like this are depicted in our cultural currency. But when she's off the clock and needs to unplug, Danielle Christmas turns to Jane Austen. And she says even though she doesn't always want to, she can't help bringing her knowledge of race and history into these stories. As co-editor of the most recent issue of the JASNA journal Persuasions Online, Danielle Christmas has become a convener of conversations within the Janeite and academic community on race and the works of Jane Austen. She took some time recently to chat with us about that issue, and everything from Fanny Price and the history behind Mansfield Park, to binging “Bridgerton.” And she says, for her, escaping to a Regency world can be both guilt-free and fruitful. Here's our conversation.Danielle ChristmasSometimes I really like the idea of putting my brain to the use of just having fun - of playing around in a text that's beautifully written and is doing subtle work, right? [During the day] I'm talking about slavery and the Holocaust. And my new work is on white nationalism. That's loud, there's nothing [subtle] about that. And you have to pay attention to the corners and the contours of what's happening in [Jane Austen's] novels, in order to really understand the stakes. And it's just a good brain exercise [and] it trains me to pay attention to the small things. Whereas maybe if I'm spending all of my time, just looking at the loud - you know, the loudness, the violence, all of that - I miss the corners.Plain Jane  Well tell me, Danielle, because you are reading with all of that loudness around you. And you're very aware of this and you're … choosing to dedicate the time to exploring all those issues in our culture, everything from our lynching histories in our culture and the legacy of slavery and the legacy of racism. What do you bring as a reader with your expertise to Jane Austen, does that enter into it very much? Do you find comfort in the fact that she was surrounded by these conversations? And they are, like you say subtle, but they might be there like Edward Said says, - look at what's not there as well as what is there.Danielle Christmas Yes, exactly! That it's always there. Even if it's not there. It's there and it's absence and the fact that it's absent, is itself indicating something that we should be thinking about that's doing something whether or not it's present in the room. I think it's fascinating that people that we talk to so much in this special issue that we're doing [in] Persuasions, there is a lot going on, of course about the triangle trade and how that works. And yet there are four lines in Mansfield Park … or the sum total of what Jane Austen clearly said, explicitly said - explicitly-ish! - that is her making a direct reference to slavery. If we, we smart people, we smarty-pants people, have so much to say, based on four lines and its absence, then there really is something fascinating going on. Anytime there is a narrative, a television series, a book, anything that has to do, it is deeply embedded in a construction of class culture, right? And manners. There are all sorts of politics that surround that. And she was right. … She was a brilliant woman and a brilliant writer who wrote knowing that, right? It's intentional. I think that sometimes it's fascinating to encounter resistance among people who love Jane Austen, out of fear, I think, that we're pushing politics into a space where it's like a protected space. So why are we bringing politics into yet another thing, right? Like, why are we? It's there! … If we were living in Regency times, there's no way to read her work without understanding it as construction of political narrative. Not only that, or maybe not primarily that, but to write a romance novel at the time is itself a political exercise. And so acknowledging the truth of that - two things can be true at the same time. This is what I like, my major discovery in my 30s: Things can be true, a person can be, you know, racist and fascinating; a person could be writing just enjoyable romantic fiction, and also be doing something interesting and political. And I think that's what's happening. And it's easy to to get our hackles up on either side of that, to insist that it is only politics. And to forget that it's more fascinating. So why are we bringing politics into yet another thing, right? Like, why are we? It's there! … If we were living in Regency times, there's no way to read her work without understanding it as construction of political narrative. I think maybe this is my pop culture brain. But it's more fascinating because it's not just politics, right? Like she's doing something that is supposed to be an exercise in entertainment and pleasure. But she's playing this all out. And in a tableau that's tends to be people of a certain like wealth and class and that money comes from someplace, their comfort comes from someplace, the exclusion or not, of people. You cannot read Mansfield Park outside of those four lines, without understanding Fanny, and her absence of wealth, her relationship to the wealthier family, and the way that that interaction works as anything except a political inquiry into how relationships with family and money work and power, and morals and ethics, right? Plain Jane  So everything you say, Danielle, so interesting about Mansfield Park: They have to get their money at Mansfield Park from somewhere. You mentioned the four lines about “dead silence.” There's so much in that novel, if you're closely reading the text, that are choices that Jane Austen is making. And … she's so good at her job that we forget that there's a puppeteer. There's a conductor, who's making choices about how Mansfield Park gets its money, about where Sir Thomas goes when he leaves Mansfield Park, about what Fanny Price is reading. So much more than the “dead silence,” you know?So tell me more. Danielle, when I read it, it occurred to me that it's not it doesn't seem to me like too much of a stretch to see Mansfield Park and its dismantling, I would say it's kind of reduced to rubble. By the end of it. It's kind of destroyed! And the only person who's still standing is Fanny Price. And I feel like it could be a metaphor for a sort of dismantling of England through colonialism - morally - not paying attention to your house, being out there and not concentrating on what's real and what's actually ethical. And the consequences of that. Do you think that's too much of a stretch?Danielle Christmas That's provocative! I kind of love that! I would have to sit and think about that. I think if that's plausible, and as a sort of larger metaphor, I think that maybe … you'll get my preemptive defenses against those people who tend to in general, tell me I'm bringing politics into politics-free spaces. So [they'll say], “It's just romance. Right? It's happy. It's just pop culture. Why are you insisting?” I think because of that, I tend to be more conservative in the claims that I make than you're being. I think that my the most conservative account that I could easily defend - that I think that any person could reasonably defend: After you learn a little bit about Jane Austen's family in general (I resist psychoanalytic readings of an author through their work, don't think it's helpful), but you can't find out that her father has a trustee relationship with a plantation, or find out that her brother would patrol waters for slave ships, and not think about how knowing that in her relationship to them, and doing that would inform her decision to write this novel. And what to include, and not. So I think the most conservative thing to say about slavery, history, [and] politics, and the novel, is that just the insistence that she's publishing this, and that she's insisting that people who like her novels, and enjoy her kind of writing, read this. That is disruption. That is interesting. Just that, yes. So, just even stopping there, makes me curious. I think sometimes I feel like my job as a teacher, maybe less so in my writing, but as a teacher, is just to make us notice things that we noticed, but didn't realize were important to notice. Like to just say if I was teaching a class, like, what do you guys think that a woman who was writing what we could call - even at the time -chicklit, right? Like a woman who's writing - yes, a smart woman - who's writing for other literate smart women, inasmuch as any woman is considered especially smart and literate at the time, who's interested in reading a romantic novel happened to do this. Like happens to mediate this particular story through the experience of a deep privilege? And, what you're saying, which is really the kind of collapse of privilege in one family, right? So, like, and this is where we're going. Just think about that, guys. I'm a new historicist. So I want to know what's going on all around the page. I want to know what helped make the story and I want to know what the story is doing off of the page. And so there is an entire ecosystem around what we can talk about - this really weird thing she did, right? Like, it's just a weird thing! There's a way to have told that story, so that all I needed to do was curl up on my couch and read it and not really have to do any heavy lifting. Not grapple with what it means that there are four lines of silence. I think sometimes I feel like my job as a teacher, maybe less so in my writing, but as a teacher, is just to make us notice things that we noticed, but didn't realize were important to notice. You know, Fanny really is the subject of abuse. … And I think because so many of us read the novel, and so many of us who are doing it outside of the context of the classroom, are doing it for pleasure reading. And ... if I'm reading this novel for pleasure, I don't want to sit with Fanny's pain very long. It is unpleasant. It's really cruel the way she's treated. But if we pause and think about that, that is quite a choice that Jane Austen made: to insist that somebody who wants to pick up the genre that they would expect her to be writing, that they have to walk through that maltreatment. And it's not just, you know, a heroine who's mistreated. She is the subject of abuse. Compared to how people feel about Lizzy Bennet, you know, everyone wants to be Lizzy Bennet, right?Fanny is meek. She is not … as charming. And, you know, she's just coming from a different place. What a heroine she is, right? What a curious heroine she is compared to who we've come to know from Jane Austen's other novels. What do we do with that? What do we make of that? Sometimes I think the most fruitful things come from just realizing that there are questions that we haven't been asking.Plain JaneLet me get to some of your work. Danielle. You are the Co-editor of the most recent issue of Persuasions … and it's a peer-reviewed publication of JASNA, the Jane Austen Society of North America. And it features essays on Jane Austen and her world. Can you tell me a little bit about the most current issue, which is called “Beyond the Bit of Ivory, Jane Austen and Diversity”? By the way, I put the Call for Papers, link in our chat. It's so beautiful, the first paragraph of that. Danielle Christmas I'm so glad that you think it's beautifully written. You know, it was fascinating. We encountered each other through the “Race and the Regency” series. That was a fascinating multi-month journey ... hearing different lectures. But .. because so many of us are asking questions about race, we're asking questions we didn't know we should have been asking .... So that's good and important work then, right? If you sit back and think, OK, we're all kind of engaged in that thinking JASNA has jumped in. Like at Chawton [House], where they were doing the Black Lives Matter to Jane Austen exhibit and all of that. I mean, like, Whoa. Fascinating. Like, who is mad who's yelling? Why? What are the stakes to people? What's happening? … Like, what is that alarmism about? People who have different intellectual stakes in the way that we remember, and read Jane Austen. We're all bringing a different set of thoughts and values and questions to this figure, as an abstract person, as a writer, as a creator of stories. We are mapping on to these stories, all sorts of powers that they may or may not have. So this special issue is an opportunity for us, in this moment, to do some deep thinking about those questions. Fanny is meek. … What a curious heroine she is compared to who we've come to know from Jane Austen's other novels. What do we do with that? What do we make of that? Sometimes I think the most fruitful things come from just realizing that there are questions that we haven't been asking.You know, there are plenty of folks who have been working on the intersection of these questions in these histories and Jane Austen's work for a long time. So it's not as if, you know, finally scholars are coming to ask questions. But for maybe different scholars than before, and some who have been … in this wheelhouse, but different folks who maybe haven't been a part of the conversation yet. And all of us, right, whether or not we've been a part of the conversation, or we're new to it, or having this conversation right now. And now is a different time to be having this conversation. Asking questions about Race in the Regency four years ago is interesting and important. But it's different right now. There is something different happening in the … stakes of the way that we think and argue and remember racial history.Plain Jane  The very first sentence in the Call for Papers [says] “the police killings of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and others, and the pandemic that has disproportionately killed along racial lines have shocked the world into a confrontation of inequities resulting from individual behavior, institutional design, and even attachment to limited and comfortable perspectives.” That's really powerful language to introduce a Call for Papers about Jane Austen and the world of Jane Austen. What did you mean in that first sentence - “limited and comfortable perspectives that we might be attached to”?Danielle Christmas Well, what it makes me think now about is the fact that I think a lot of us, if you read that Call for Papers and agree, like, Wow, that's an important conversation to be having. Then it's likely that at least a little bit, when we read Jane Austen or - heaven forbid - we like go binge a Netflix series, right? So … Why should we be wasting hours doing this, it's purely an exercise in like, you know, self pleasure, whatever?Plain Jane  Well, let's just say what we're all thinking right now, which is: “Bridgerton.” So yes, as we're watching “Bridgerton” …?Danielle Christmas Right?! As we all sit for one day and watch the entirety of the series! We, I don't know, I won't project for lots of others, but I've talked to enough people who are the same people who would read that Call for Papers and think, “This is urgent and important.” And then would would realize that there is some degree of guilt that we feel when we are cozied up right now reading Jane Austen. Like … what does it mean? That we're exercising our comfortable privilege to sit and relax and read a feel-good book, you know? I feel guilt about that. I feel guilt as a person, as a scholar who has a certain set of values. But as a Black woman who understands all of the history that's in the background of Jane Austen, I sit with some guilt about what is and is not there. I think that it's really helpful to see that, and talk about that, and not suggest that, like, that guilt can't do fruitful things. In this Persuasions issue, there are some folks who are not, quote, “scholars,” right? These are not the usual suspects that you would find in a typical peer-reviewed journal. Lots of people submitted, and some of the folks that we're publishing are non-university folks. And … we are all bringing a set of active considerations that typically are dismissed as inappropriate for informing questions and answers, and we're insisting that that's OK. And it's interesting, and it can do interesting stuff. Some of the essays, unlike a sort of traditional peer-reviewed journal, are coming more from a place of practice. Some of them are coming more from a place of intellectual memoir. And ... that is so valuable, especially when we're thinking about what it means to talk about this figure in this time, considering that the passing description of her is a woman in the 1800s, who wrote romance novels, right? Like that's the quick and short version. There's a lot of problems we need to fix right now. And that's really an indulgence and there's something to be worked out. It feels like an exercise in privilege. And that's really [the source of] some of the resistance and alarmism, I think, is that we don't like what it might mean about us if we don't want to think about that. Who wants to think about that, right?! Like who wants to think, “Oh, yeah, there's the Zong crisis, is happening in the background, right? Maybe Lord Mansfield, the real man had something to do with the Mansfield Park.” Like what a terrible … who wants to think about that?!… But if you just read it  - to take away that you feel guilty, there's something wrong with you if you don't enthusiastically embrace the idea of talking about race, slavery and Jane Austen, right? Like you are intellectually dishonest, whatever. I think it's more interesting that, like, none of us really want to do that thinking! That she made it a little difficult to do that thinking. She could have been more explicit. But … an adult mind that's really fully formed and inclined to do critical thinking cannot read her novels and not ask questions about power, money, history, race. Like all of that stuff, the silences and the explicit statements: We have to notice it. We do or don't have to choose to ignore it. … It's not wrong, that on Tuesday, after doing my research on white nationalism, I don't really want to think about that.… I have a lot of students who are inclined to think that talking about this stuff means that a professor's telling them they should feel guilty about stuff. … They're conditioned to think that, like I'm saying you should have been thinking about this all along and shame on you. What I would say to them is, I think the most important thing about consuming any culture - so Jane Austen or any media - is to be deliberate and intentional …  If you sit down and decide to binge “Bridgerton” … I'm gonna have fun. It's Netflix. Like, it's been a tough day. But do that knowing that today, you're … choosing not to think about all of the racial politics that Shonda Rhimes introduced by creating this alternate race history in England. The fact that she … [introduced] the visual politics of having characters of having a Black man and a white woman fall in love -  in the context, just having interracial romance is itself a really political, challenging thing to represent. And to think about, especially now that I live in the south, to look at, to argue about, to remember to [think about] all of that. And Shonda Rhimes is like, “No, no, no. I'm not going to let you enjoy that without noticing what you're not noticing.”So I think it's just fine to decide, I don't really want to do that right now., I don't want to do that thinking. But tomorrow: Do that thinking, or know that it's thinking that needs to happen. And that you aren't appreciating the text for the fullness of what it is. ... You'll actually, I think, enjoy it more. Maybe you consider, like, what a decision she made, right? Like what a fascinating decision she made that we're arguing now, again, about Queen Charlotte and whether she was Black. And our construction of race -  it's fascinating to hear what people have to say about Queen Charlotte being Black, as if race operated in the same way then as it does now. All of that. Plain Jane  And in all of what you just said, something sticks out to me that I want to pick up - which is Jane Austen could have been more explicit. And I want to be careful that when I'm saying, “Fanny Price burns the b***h down!” You know, [that[ I'm not superimposing what I would have loved for Jane Austen to be thinking and saying. I do think, though, the more you hear the more you think, ‘“Yeah, there's that subtext. Maybe even not as subtle as I thought.”And you mentioned something in “Race and the Regency” and your talk on the Zong slave ship - [that] calling Mansfield Park Mansfield Park is a little bit like writing a novel today and calling it Scalia House. There's no way that's not saying something.So anyway, I think it's, it's not politics. It's life. If you think that we need to just sit and escape this, and your students want to just escape, and not look at this. It's not politics they're escaping from, it's basically life. It's just the real world that they're escaping from. But yet you need to escape from it. So do I and we all do that. So it's about life. And it is painful. That's the other thing you said, Yes, it's painful. You know, wherever you're coming from when you're reading Jane Austen. And when you're having these conversations about privilege, it's painful. But yet I feel like the art is what helps us work through it. So I guess that's what I pull away: the art. … But all of that noise, as you say. that loudness … was seeping in. So it's there. And it's just going to be unpacked and unraveled for generations to come.Danielle Christmas Absolutely. You know, and as I'm listening to us, and listening to you and thinking about what both of us are talking about, I think [of] another discomfort: This is really a sacred cow. So I'm spending time with Janeites. And talking about all this interesting stuff and enjoying books. And I think something that we don't like, this group that I've been spending time with ..., is that Jane Austen probably had some racial attitudes that we really wouldn't like. Right? So, really problematic racial attitudes and racial values. And that's hard, right? Like, if we, if we love her work, if we feel like she was doing important, disruptive, interesting stuff, that then challenges us. I think that brings forward ... the stuff that's, like, what does it mean about me? If I like a person, you know, I don't want to admit that about her because it means something about me. … What are my values if I enjoy that?And it is itself a kind of, like: Two things can be true, right? It can be true that she's doing interesting, disruptive, fascinating stuff. And she, I would put money down on her having racial attitudes that were not too awesome, right?I think the helpful thing to remember is we don't know, we'll never know, It's not really that interesting to argue about that. But that actually, I think, is the core of some of that alarmism, the unstated core of it. Which is like, “Are you trying to indict Jane Austen?” No, who can do that? What are we doing? It's so fascinating because I would say to a person who said that to me, like, I'm not gonna indict her, I don't have to! It is almost impossible to conceive of a world in which she would formulate her thoughts of how the world works, and how people work, and that she would think that I, a Black woman, am of equal intelligence.… She might - that'd be delightful! There's no way for me to know that! ...But, you know, I actually think it's not that interesting to acknowledge that she was a person. That's, just a person of her time. And so I want to - even among the people who it's fun to have these conversations with - disrupt the sacred, you know, really kill the sacred cow. … We must admit that this person whose work we love … we're being intellectually dishonest if we refuse that. And I actually think that's something that's really hard for us to do. There are still people who would read that Call for Papers who would share my values or do interesting work, but who will still be unsettled if I say to them, that according to today's values, and the way that we construct the idea of racism, Jane Austen was probably racist. That really makes people uncomfortable. Now, you know, it was my intellectual upbringing, like, how I was trained as a scholar, I was raised to be a little polemical. In some ways, I just kind of want to see what happens if I throw that out. ...If I go into a room and say, “What are you going to do with that? Here's the way that works” But outside of being kind of mischievous, I actually think that's probably true. And that's OK. Like, I don't think it means I shouldn't enjoy her work. I don't think it means anything about anyone who does enjoy her work. I think it means something about all of us. If we are so deeply resistant to a likelihood … I think that requires some interrogation. And that's work that even people who read that call for proposals, lots of those people who are open to different ways of thinking, so they are not themselves villainous. But like, they're not noticing what they're not noticing. Which is maybe their own resistance to the idea that, according to the way that we reasonably assign the label racism, [Jane Austen] is probably racist. What do we do with that? Plain Jane  Well, you're challenging me, Danielle. Because I did have a question on here: In what ways is reading Jane Austen and Jane Austen, you know, of her time, possibly problematic for us? But it was painful to even write that question. And I asked myself, Is that really necessary? And you're telling me, it is necessary. Again, it's another thing that's there or not there, to pull out and talk about, and just make sure, like you say, if, it's uncomfortable, why is it uncomfortable? And it's okay, by the way to be uncomfortable! Something we all need to know. But Danielle, basically, you can solve America, if we can all remember to keep two thoughts in our head. That's the first lesson. And then also just be OK with being uncomfortable. Just if we can all just do those two things. America, we'll be on our way.Danielle Christmas Yeah! To insist that you have some thinking to do does not make you a villain: It means you have some thinking to do. We all have different thinking to do. And then I might not have the same work to do. But I've got my own stuff. It's funny. … This is like when I say this to my graduate students, this is very much me projecting my judgment of myself. In retrospect, I used to call everything “problematic.” My first job out of college was as an organizer. I was a union organizer driving around Missouri - so driving around where you are! - organizing people. Low-income people in downstate Missouri, doing all sorts of, you know, life [challenges.] If I had the mission, my mission was to change the world. Plain Jane  That's a part of your bio I did not know! Danielle Christmas, ladies and gentlemen, driving around the byways, the blue highways of Missouri.Danielle Christmas It's an interesting state. It is an interesting state to be driving around as a 20-something Black woman there to organize low -income folks who are, you know, working their hardest. So that was a formative experience. But because of that quite reasonably, I had an eye for like, everything that is “problematic.” And yes, … and I'm not picking on you for using that word. It's a useful word.Plain Jane  Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm around students, and daughters, you know who, yes, find everything problematic.Danielle Christmas It's just, it's lazy. That's the thing to remember about myself, and what I noticed about my students. And the reason that I push them. It's not because they're calling something out that needs to be examined more closely. It's that it's lazy to call it “problematic” and stop right there. It's like, it is an empty explanation that explains nothing.Plain Jane  So you're right. It's kind of jargon and you do a great job of cutting through the jargon. Especially for an academic, right?.Danielle ChristmasSee, that's my dream!Plain JaneOne thing I have to ask along these lines is that you are spending a lot of time, you say, among Janeites. And you mentioned not everyone would love that Call for Proposals. I mean, what do you think, because these conversations are going on in a really dynamic, fantastic way with race and the Regency in the Jane Austen world. But there also people that would like to see - and they're coming out on Twitter and saying, openly and thoughtfully I think, that they would like to see things going faster. They'd like to see change. They'd like to see a more assertive discussion about diversity and equity. But what is your sense of the JASNA community and its take on equity and diversity and approaching all of these questions in the readings of Jane Austen and her world? Danielle Christmas You know, that is a terrific question. And it's a complicated question. I think that  what's good about this special issue is that, this [is] one corner of what needs to happen, which is intellectual work, that we expressed commitment to prioritizing that thinking. So that intellectual work and making that accessible. That is one corner. And that's one corner that I'm excited to participate in. The voices that are saying that that is not enough, are absolutely right. It would be dishonest of JASNA, were anyone just saying, and I don't think they would say, “You know, that's it, we're checking it off.” … So I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of, JASNA's ambition around this, right? … A part of that is the intellectual work, of making that accessible as a publication. But the other stuff the, like, let's revisit infrastructure. Let's ... look at our mission statement. And let's look at participation, the inclusion of other voices in the way the organization is run. All that absolutely needs to happen. And that work always takes longer, right? It's always messier. It's always more complicated. And I understand people saying, like, you know, “tick tock..” What I'm excited about is that this moment is giving us an opportunity to prioritize the discussions. I would actually say of myself that I am, I'm probably unfairly patient. I am predisposed, maybe because of like, the, ugliness that I work with. And my need to like my particular intellectual project or public-facing scholarship is to figure out how to do that, how to make these conversations. possible, not hostile, really interesting, and move at the pace that people can have those conversations, right?So, do I think we should all burn down the system to stop white nationalism? Sure. Is that going to happen? No. So that means that I've got to talk to a lot of people who really disagree with me ... So I have a sense of pace and scale … So I would not call myself the best measure of pace of change, right? Also, I think, because I have the good fortune of doing what I think is this really important part of the work. And that primarily being, I've joined the editorial board of Persuasions and I'm really excited about making sure that this isn't a single special-issue thing. That this conversation continues and expands, that we're not ghettoizing this work. So I know, that's a commitment they have. And I know those other conversations are happening. And I know there's frustration. There's a reason for optimism, because we're having a conversation. And the most important thing - and this does come from my days as a union organizer - is to cultivate allies where we can find them. So I know that there are people who are part of JASNA leadership, who are all about making this happen, even if we're different people in different corners … So make the make noise - because no change happens without noise. Plain Jane  Do you want to say any more about “Bridgerton?” I mean, I know that you saw it as an escape. Does it in any way advance the conversations, on all of these conversations on race and the Regency?Danielle Christmas I actually think it does really important work. Because there are arguments now about casting of Anne Boleyn in an upcoming film production that has her as a Black woman - a dark-skinned Black woman playing opposite a very … expected casting for Henry. There are dozens of future Jane Austen adaptations to come, because we love them, right? They're going to continue. They will be made as long as we watch them. At what point are .. we going to insist that we see that in those kinds of adaptations? I actually think that's really important. If someone told me, this raises the question of whether we're gonna cast Black women as leads in Jane Austen films … I actually think that's really interesting. I think so many of us like Jane Austen because we are Lizzy Bennet, right? We identify. We all want to be the people, we want to be leading ladyl. We're on the adventure, I would say even more so than lots of other works. And Jane Austen's awesome, because she makes that easy. And her stories make that easy. What does it mean for a new generation of viewer if we insist that you can look different? I think part of my grappling ... in my own journey, is feeling frustration and guilt that I enjoy something that insists that I cannot look like the person who is the lead, right? What would it have meant if that wasn't a thing to grapple with? Because people telling Jane Austen stories today already did the work of saying, “No, her stories really transcend that. It doesn't have to look like … we expect it to look.”That would have made a difference. And I actually think that “Bridgerton” is insisting that he next time there's a production, if they decide to insist on a certain kind of casting, they're being deliberate and intentional about that. And that's provocative, right? It means that if you are making the new adaptation of Sense and Sensibility [you remember]…  that “Bridgerton” was super successful, right? If you're a person who wants something super successful, how much of success of “Bridgerton” could be attributed to - at least our interest at first - because of that strange world Shonda Rhimes [made] for us. So it would be shrewd for the future adaptors of Jane Austen's work to calculate on whether there is any value in being equally provocative and making us curious. And actually, I do, I think that's more important than I would have expected. And I think - this is the mischief-maker in me - I think it's good to make a person be deliberate in saying, no, they're not going to do something. .. [If] you're making an adaptation, you should have to tell yourself now that you're only going to cast the usual suspects.Plain Jane  Yes, it's changed the default in a way, maybe forever. And maybe it's been a long time coming. I mean, if you look back on so many adaptations, I think very soon, if we don't already, we'll be thinking, “Boy, that is a white world they created, and that doesn't even seem realistic.” OK, so very much a random aside: When you're reading Jane Austen's descriptions of her characters now with a kind of an ear and an eye for colorism and depictions and descriptions, a lot of her lead characters - I think Eleanor Dashwood - [are] just described as Brown. So does that make it easier for you as a writer, a reader when you were younger? Did you like Soniah Kamal, who wrote Unmarriageable and who I've talked with. She said, from the very first time reading, Pride and Prejudice, it was Pakistani. Do you do make things what you need them to be in your head? I know I do as a reader as well.Danielle Christmas I think that's the only way that I can really enjoy Jane Austen. But I like that she makes that possible. ...  I wouldn't go so far as to say that that is on a top 10 list of what makes her so accessible. … You know, now that I'm thinking about it, I really actually do think it's .. that she is so accessible because she makes it so easy for us to be the heroine. I do, you know, just as a reader, as a person who reads Jane Austen, for pleasure, it is easier to be transported by her work than lots of other things that I read that I would consider comparable.Plain Jane  And we won't give her more credit than would have been deserved. But it I think one thing that's interesting as we talk about … the experience of reading is that it might have been unconscious. 5here are a lot of things that can be unconsciously happening. … But either way, it's interesting. Do you have anything else to add that we haven't covered? Danielle Christmas I don't have anything else to add, It's such a pleasure. These were great questions. I hope that it is entertaining and fruitful for listeners. That too on my epitaph: “She was entertaining and taught us stuff”!Plain Jane  You are entertaining, and you have taught us stuff, Danielle Christmas! Thank you so much for joining us on the Austen Connection.And thank YOU, Austen Connection readers, listeners, subscribers, engagers.As always, if you liked this conversation, or think of anyone else who would find it interesting and, as Danielle Christmas says, “fruitful” - please share it!You can also sign up for the Austen Connection, if you haven't already, to get these conversations delivered right ot your Inbox.Here are some awesome links to the things Danielle Christmas talked about in this conversation. Keep reading, and let us know your thoughts. Cool Stuff/Links:The current issue of JASNA's Persuasions Online:  http://jasna.org/publications-2/persuasions-online/volume-41-no-2/editors/Jane Austen & Co.'s discussion series “Race and the Regency” - it's awesome: https://www.janeaustensummer.org/raceandtheregencyMore on Jane Austen & Co: https://www.janeaustenandco.org/NYT on Chawton House Museum and Black Lives Matter:  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/world/europe/jane-austen-slavery-museum.htmlMore on Danielle Christmas:  https://englishcomplit.unc.edu/faculty-directory/danielle-christmas/ Get full access to The Austen Connection at austenconnection.substack.com/subscribe

Hello, dear friends!It's here! Episode One/Season One of the Austen Connection podcast. You can press play and listen or stream from any device, and it's also available (we hope) on Apple podcasts. Enjoy, and if you like it, share with your Janeite and bookish friends. Thank you for being here and joining this conversation! One of the most exciting things about Jane Austen is how her stories travel - across continents, across cultures, across time. Like her spiritual brother Shakespeare, her stories contain a universality and also a lot of fun of the sort that works like a passport across these boundaries - and perhaps no one else but Shakespeare comes so close to providing us with stories that connect - if you will - so strongly today. And one thing that a lot of us find exciting, as so many of us are questioning and exploring issues of race and inclusivity in all of our cultures - is how this author who is important to us is also important to so many of our sisters and brothers across continents and cultures. It's just downright exciting.So it's a thrill to share with you a conversation that I had with the author of a book that happens to be a favorite Jane Austen retelling of a lot of Janeites, and scholars, and readers alike: Soniah Kamal's Unmarriageable: A Novel.Unmarriageable tells the story of heroine Alysba, or Alys, Binat and the Binat sisters, who live in Pakistan, teach at an English school, and avoid getting married - that is until the arrogant, wealthy and handsome Darsee comes along and shakes things up. I think you know how this is going to go.  When I reached Kamal she was visiting Pakistan, the place of her birth. Growing up, she also spent time in England, Saudi Arabia and currently lives in Georgia. But in this conversation you could hear Pakistan - its streets and soundscapes - in the background. Kamal and I spoke about why Mansfield Park is her favorite novel, how religious communities that teach Purity, from conservative Islam to Evangelical Christianity, make ideal contemporary settings for Jane Austen's themes, and why she says that ever since she first read Pride and Prejudice at the age of 16 she's always known that Jane Austen was Pakistani. This is the first Austen Connection podcast episode - you can listen here and subscribe to the podcast on Apple. Meanwhile, if you prefer words to sounds, here are edited excerpts from our conversation. Enjoy! -------------------------------Plain Jane:Let me start with a really simple question: When did you first encounter the novels of Jane Austen? When and where and how have Austen and her stories shaped your life ever since?Soniah Kamal: I was first given Pride and Prejudice when I was, I think, around 12, 13, 14 ... by an aunt of mine. And what she gave me was, this was I believe, around the ‘70s. And she gave me a really beautiful red leather-bound copy with gold lettering on it. And I opened it up, and I read the first sentence, which is, you know, “It's a truth universally acknowledged …” etc, etc. And I promptly shut the book and said, “OK, I'm not reading that.” … And I remember thinking, “I don't know what this is, what I just read, I'm not reading this book.” And then I think I was 16 when I finally opened the novel, and I like to joke It must have been a rainy day. But I don't know why I opened it. I started to read it, and I read it cover to cover. And it was a quintessentially Pakistani novel. I mean …  it could have been set in Pakistan completely. I mean, Jane Austen didn't know she was Pakistani, and I actually started calling her Jane Khala in my mind - Khala means maternal aunt ... I just loved the novel. And I actually grew up in Saudi Arabia for a while and went to an international school there. And my library had books from the US and the UK … But the one thing that I never could find back then was a book written in English but set in Pakistan, and English is my first language. English is the official language of Pakistan, it became so in 1947, even though we know the origins of it are not that delightful. But reading Jane Austen at that [time] at 16 … what I started to do, in a lot of my reading was flipped settings and stuff. So like bonnets would turn into buttas, sandwiches would turn into scones and stuff. So when I read Austen at 16, it just seemed, you know, it didn't seem other … Which is why I say that it was a quintessentially Pakistani novel. My brain was already doing that, you know … So just seeing the dialogue, the scenarios, the characters, the concerns, the thematic material. And it's all very relevant to today. Plain JaneAnd that is what we do when we're reading novels. We're using our imaginations to recreate our own world, which is what's so powerful about it. So funny to think about a young Soniah Kamal reading that first sentence that we love, “It is a truth universally acknowledged …” I have some teens in my life, and they have emptied my shelves of Jane Austen, because I press Jane Austen on them. But the thing I'm very careful to say, and you're reminding me, as I always say, “She's sarcastic!” Soniah Kamal I think maybe that's what fascinated me, or at least definitely caught me was that … Yes, it's funny. But the humor is … sarcasm, you know, even the irony and sarcasm are closely related. And I think what I had sort of done to be able to survive myself in the society that I found myself living in, was sarcasm also. So Austen, she was just perfect for me. Her wit, her quips, her social insights. But it wasn't just that she had social insights. ... And she has such an astute understanding of characters, of people. She doesn't mock people; she mocks institutions. And her irony and sarcasm are her medium - of her humor … and I really, really related to that. I really love that. But she wasn't making fun of people. She was making fun of the institutions and the ideas that had given birth to these people. Plain JaneLet's tackle that. I mean, she's not just funny, not slapstick funny, as you say, right? She's wickedly funny because she's taking on these incredible institutions. And she's demanding to be listened to. … Soniah, you tackle a lot of themes in the first few pages of Unmarriageable - I could see that you were tackling so many of the themes that people don't actually associate with Austen: Things like you've just mentioned, like class oppression, gender oppression, hypocrisy of society, things that were not only annoying to women in the Regency era, and in Jane Austen's world, but are dangerous - and are still dangerous today. And really, it's all right there in Unmarriageable in the first few pages. So tell me about how conscious this was for you. Soniah Kamal It was very, very conscious. In fact, what I wanted to do with the first chapter was set up all the thematic material that I felt was in Austen, as well as in Unmarriageable. And Unmarriageable works on two levels. It's a completely stand-alone novel. So if you know nothing about Jane Austen or not coming from Pride and Prejudice, it's still a stand-alone novel in its own right. However, it's also an homage to Pride and Prejudice. I mean, it's a postcolonial parallel retelling, and parallel because it follows the original plot and all the characters are there. And it's a postcolonial retelling because I was trying to remap the linguistic history of British Empire. So this was very much a project for me, rather than just something fun that I thought I would do, you know. And I was very intimidated by what I was setting out to do. I don't know if there's any parallel retelling actually out. I haven't come across one -I think this may well be the first one. But because I was taking on British Empire and postcolonialism also, that was intimidating. I was very intimidated by what I was setting out to do. I don't know if there's any parallel retelling actually out. I haven't come across one -I think this may well be the first one. But because I was taking on British Empire and postcolonialism also, that was intimidating. So on these two levels, I had to satisfy two different groups of readers which are polar opposite - coming from Austen, and not knowing Austen at all. And what I brought for the Austen readers though, what I definitely wanted to do was put easter eggs throughout the the narrative, and they're actually nods to all of her six completed novels as well as Lady Susan. And the very first line, my opening for Unmarriageable is a nod to Pride and Prejudice. And those rewrites, those reimaginings, retellings of her iconic first sentence, continue in the first chapter. But also my favorite Austen novel is actually Mansfield Park. And I think the opening for Mansfield Park is fantastic because it just encapsulates what traditionally, and for centuries, women's lives actually were, which was the ring that your finger wore ended up determining your life and the life of your children, your opportunities, your privileges, and Austen depicts that. … A lot of people don't like Mansfield Park. Like when I say it's my favorite, sometimes I get very odd looks, like, “What's wrong with you?” ...Plain JaneYeah, I'm so with you. And that's the one that I tend to press on my teenagers because I say, “Look, this is about a group of young people stuck in a house together.”Soniah KamalYou know, yes. Interesting. It's so interesting, I've never really thought of it like that. …I mean, the beginning, the opening of Mansfield Park are three sisters. And because of who they end up married to - one of them, you know, lies about on the sofa all day long with her dog; the other one needs to suck up to the owner of the mansion; and the third one has to send her kids away because she can't afford their upbringing. And they've all grown up in the same environment. They're sisters; they've come from the same family; but look at what happened to their life, just by dint of who they ended up getting married to. I think the opening for Mansfield Park is fantastic because it just encapsulates what traditionally, and for centuries, women's lives actually were, which was the ring that your finger wore ended up determining your life and the life of your children, your opportunities, your privileges …And in a lot of traditional cultures, that is still the case. You know, and I'm coming from Pakistan where I see this - saw this then, see this today. And I think what I absolutely loved in [Mansfield Park], it was the first time that I had read a novel where family relationships - in Pride and Prejudice and Emma, etc. … are what Austen really picks apart .. the people visiting and … what is it “one and 20 families” and stuff. But in Mansfield Park, like you said, she keeps this group of people in the house. And what she picks apart are relatives and family relationships and what family means. I think I fell in love with that novel because it is by far one of the realest novels … the most honest novels I have still read about what it means to be and to belong to family. You know, just because .. people are your cousins, just because they're your mother, sisters… it doesn't mean anything. They can still be unkind and cruel. And I think Austen is so amazing for what she's done with Mansfield Park. Plain Jane…And you know everything you were saying Soniah, makes me realize I think a lot of people mistakenly sort of, you know … all of our feminist colleagues and friends, I think sometimes might have the question, “What's relevant about Jane Austen?” And I think maybe that's because with the [screen] adaptations, you think that these are novels about marriage. But really, it's about the precarity of women, and that marriage was the option. Marriage was so important for the reasons you're saying.Soniah KamalI mean, yeah, in Regency England and Austen's time, marriage was the only thing women of a certain class would do. I mean, if you came from the servant classes, you could perhaps gain employment as a cook as a maid, etc. But from Austen's own class, you couldn't do that, the only option you had was to become a governess … So you're very in-between; you were neither here nor there. And Austen doesn't seem to be too happy about that. So Regency England was harsh on women… Plain Jane … and harsh on Jane Austen!Soniah KamalRight but she chose those for herself insofar as she said no to Harris Bigg-Wither. … So it's really interesting to see that off the page [and] on the page. … I think that the worst thing per se was once you got married, any property you brought, your kids, everything - you yourself - belonged to your husband. You were their property. So … saying Yes to someone wasn't just a question of, “Oh, are we going to get along and have lovely strolls …”  It was, if you didn't get along with this person, or if he was cruel or horrible, you were in a bad position as a woman. And the fact is, as we know, with a lot of relationships, things don't stay static; people change. So women, the precariousness of a woman's position in her home, or in her husband's heart, or wherever the hell, in Regency England, was not a fun place to be at all. Because they had no power. They lacked complete agency per se.Plain Jane But the thing that I love, that you mentioned, [is] that Fanny and Eliza and Austen's characters are very astute, and I think that's really, really important in these characters - They're judging us. People are judging each other constantly. And the biggest, and harshest judges are Austen's leading ladies and leading men. They are the smartest people in the room. And you really capture this and I feel like, in a way, Austen, I feel like Pride and Prejudice upends Regency values. … And you have your characters [in Unmarriageable], Alys and Darsee, are the smartest people in the room. They're the judgiest two people in the room, and they judge each other. And there's always this opposition. But that's how in these precarious positions women survive, is by being excellent judges of character and of their situations, and also being honest. Do you find that? Soniah Kamal.... Well first, I think it's interesting that you said, you know about pre-judging and everything, because the thing is Pride and Prejudice is prejudice.  … When you break the word apart, it's pre-judge. ...You're pre-judging everyone. And that's exactly what Elizabeth does. But you know, I find, I think for me, Sense and Sensibility, Lucy Steele, the Steele sisters, but especially Lucy - I personally think out of all of her novels, Lucy is the most astute in many ways ...Plain Jane… and you're reminding me while I'm over simplifying it, in many ways, for brevity, really, there's so many nuances to her characters. Let me ask you a little bit about the characters in Unmarriageable. I love it that, you know, there's always this opposition between the leading man and the heroine that we know need to end up together. And so much suspense is created out of that. And there's so much opposition between them, but at the same time, the reader is allowed to see things that they might have in common. And all of this is in Unmarriageable as well. But it's interesting, what you choose to make Darsee and Alys understand about each other, is there's a sort of global citizenship, the fact that they've had this. And then they've had this postcolonial education .... Very English-first, in so many ways. And Darsee says something very interesting. He says, “We've both been educated on the ‘literature of others.'”What did you mean by having Darsee say this and having this as being the thing that the two-people-about-to-fall-in-love have in common?Soniah Kamal My own background came into my mind. I was like, “OK, you know, they're third culture kids, and they've grown up overseas. They've gone to international schools, and this is what they'll connect over.”And I think partly it wasn't just the ease of knowing this world because I come from it, but also because it was very important for me in the landscape of Unmarriageable. Because Unmarriageable is very much an East-West, East-and-West-come-together book. … You know, there's a line in one of Kipling's poems, where he says, you know, “East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.” I think in Unmarriageable they definitely do, and very purposefully, because of British Empire. In fact, one of my epigraphs is by Thomas Babington Macaulay ... from his 1835 speech to British Parliament in which he's recommending that English replace all the indigenous languages as the official language in Empire. And that is what ended up happening, and therefore English became the language of privilege, power, opportunity. So, because English became this major, important language, everyone aspired to learn it. The twist comes when, in 1947, British Empire left the Indian subcontinent and Pakistan and India became sovereign countries. Pakistan retained English and declared it as one of its official languages. So English is very much a Pakistani language. However, it happens to be one of the only languages, it's actually the only language I can speak fluently for the most part. …  And I did not know the origins of this language that was coming out of my mouth. I happened to come across Macauley's speech … doing some extra reading for myself. And it was really, it was really disturbing to see, to say the least, because as I say in my epigraph, what he wanted to do was create confused people who are brown in skin but white in sensibilities and basically create confusions ....Plain Jane Yes, and what you're saying - because I did read your epigraph as well, and I had a question for you - that must have been incredibly disturbing. And what he was talking about actually was education, right? You quote him as saying English is better worth knowing than Sanskrit or Arabic. So yeah, I think that's astounding and really needs to be pointed out - that this was creating, like you say, chaos, but also privilege - creating layers of privilege ... Soniah Kamal… Definitely. And we see that in contemporary Pakistan also, because one of the themes in Unmarriageable is the class divide between those who come from an English-fluent, English-language background with … what is considered proper accents … versus those who are not. But the thing is, reading that, reading [Macauley's] essay, reading the origins of this, it was, I mean, ...disturbing is an understatement. And I think for the longest time, I couldn't read that quote out loud without just tearing up. But the fact is that English is the official language in Pakistan, and I wanted to fuse the language that is mine and the culture that is mine. And really, a lot of Unmarriagable came from that desire. And actually a professor of mine at Seattle University called Unmarriageable Macauley's worst nightmare. And I don't know if there can ever be a compliment to top that. Because as British subjects, even postcolonial, you were supposed to look up to everything white and British. … And I guess I did flip the narrative on that one, which was the reason for writing it.Plain Jane And, you know, Darsee and Alys in Unmarriageable are big readers, and your novel is really a celebration of books. And it's a celebration of the English writers that you and Darsee will have grown up with, but also a celebration of Indian and Pakistani writers. As you mentioned to Callie Crossley on WGBH, you hear often that people are encountering and discovering Jane Austen through Unmarriageable and the first time somebody said, “Oh, I loved Unmarriageable, I'm going to check out Jane Austen,” you burst into tears!Soniah Kamal … This is where with empire and countries who have privilege and neocolonialism … what happens is that whereas empire and those of us who are brought up on British literature are aware of Austen and Hardy and Dickens, etc. Someone who wants to flip that will not necessarily, I mean, the general public in certain countries will not be aware of the Pakistani writers and stuff. And in fact, I think Darsee, that's what I think Darsee says at one point, which is … “Will there ever be someone doing that actually?” And that's where power structure comes into play. And that's where sort of pop culture and soft power and dominance, domination happens. And that's exactly what Macaulay meant when he meant “brown in skin, but white sensibilities,” which is that these people will grow up on everything British - British literature … Darsee saying “literature of others.” The fact is, I have grown up on British literature and it's very much mine too. But it was supposed to other me from myself. Because having been brought up in English I was not able to really read things set within the culture itself, which is why I had this burning desire to to read a piece of literature which I'd grown up with, within my own cultural paradigm. The fact is, I have grown up on British literature and it's very much mine too. But it was supposed to other me from myself.So all of this comes into play - just identity politics, and who gets to decide how they're going to change people's identities. All the novels and all the short stories that I've mentioned in Unmarriageable reflect the theme of Unmarriageable and the theme of identity. I think the one that encapsulates it the best for me is the Native American writer Leslie Marmon Silko. I think Alys makes her students read her short story, “Lullaby.” “Lullaby” is about children who are taken from Native American tribes by white settlers who had come in and sent [them] to boarding schools, and they were not allowed to speak their tribal languages. They were not allowed to wear their native tribal dress. I believe they had to cut their hair. They did exactly what Macaulay tried to do, which is “brown in skin, but white in sensibility.”And Silko's story is so beautiful, because she talks about what happens when you strip away someone's native identity and try to make them other, and what you do to their souls. ...I wanted to do something which fused this language which is mine, within the culture. So I wanted to do something “light and bright and sparkling” with it. Even though it's very, very heavy, and can be very troubling.Plain Jane It's, it's everything. And, you know, I love that you say Jane Austen is mine and Jane Austen belongs to everyone. You mentioned that someone said to you, Sir Thomas Macaulay would roll over in his grave … or it would be his worst nightmare.  But you know, Jane Austen would have celebrated it and loved it. So, you know, we have Jane Austen's permission. Soniah KamalI hope so. I hope so. … I think she would have chuckled.Plain Jane What would you like the Janeite community to keep in mind to make … the discussions about Jane Austen more inclusive? What should people keep in mind when reading and having these conversations?Soniah Kamal I think it comes down to the readers being aware of the space that Austen is writing in, and what she's writing. And for me, [the books] have always, with their thematic content … been universal across time and centuries. And, just as a writer, she has a certain modern way of writing. You know, she doesn't, unlike Edith Wharton, or unlike Dickens, she doesn't … preach. And she doesn't go off into long pages of descriptions and stuff. She's a very modern when it comes to pacing ...Plain Jane Interesting, so I hear what you're saying - that there's so much universality to pick up and to explore.Soniah Kamal There is, which is why I think with Janeites and with the Austen communities … Austen has a lot to offer readers from all communities and … anyone can read her and find something of worth and merit. Plain JaneYou know, you have managed to write, with Unmarriageable - you called it a parallel retelling - a scene-by-scene retelling, which is fascinating. In some ways, that's a challenge, just to show you can do this scene by scene, even though we are in Pakistan, for this story. And we are, you know, in the early 2000s, I think for most of the story. So we can go across centuries and continents, and still do a scene-by-scene retelling with all the right characters, including Wickham… in Pride and Prejudice. But you also introduced some fascinating [contemporary] things. You introduced some body image concepts, lots of talk about premarital sex, abortions, and also colorism ...I would love to hear you talk about these contemporary themes and also your experiences that also go into this very, very close retelling.Soniah Kamal I always meant to do a retelling because for me, like I said, this was a postcolonial writing back to empire. Remapping empire and its legacy. … So a scene-by-scene retelling is is very difficult because contemporary Pakistan is definitely not Regency England. And anyone who says that does not know what they're talking about as far as I'm concerned. Because in contemporary Pakistan women can get educated; … There are women across the board in all sorts of jobs; you can get a divorce, you're not stuck. You're literally not stuck, jobless. … Yes, there is a bit when it comes to morality, because Pakistan and Regency England still expect its women to be good. And you know, but I always think of it in terms of Evangelical Christianity, which also expected its women to be pure, you know ...Plain Jane Let me jump in there and say that I grew up in Evangelical Christianity, and … that is absolutely a contemporary parallel. And something relevant about Jane Austen's world. [And] it's relevant to my world in the 1980s and 1990s.Soniah Kamal Even today, even today! I mean, Pakistan very much has its own purity culture, where good girls are expected to, you know, uphold certain morals. And if you don't do that, you can get into big trouble. And so thematically, doing a parallel retelling for me was very easy, because the morality in which Austen's characters function is very much the morality even today in which Pakistani women are supposed to function. Or at least thrive the best. And if you don't, ... like me, if you're opinionated, if you talk back, if you ask things like I would ask my Dad, “Well, you know, what's wrong with smoking? If you can smoke? Why can't I? Why can guys go out at this time at night? And why can't I?” You know, just to give it just to give very teen-agey examples. So this material, I think, especially with more traditional societies and more religious societies, definitely, definitely resonates. —-Thank you for listening, friends! As always, talk back to us. Wherever you're reading from right now, how do Austen's stories connect with you? Let us know! Comment below, or write me at austenconnection@gmail.com, at @AustenConnect on Twitter, or austenconnection on Instagram. And if you're not yet part of the Austen Connection community, join us with a free subscription, to get every podcast episode and conversation dropped right into your inbox.If you liked this conversation, feel free to share it! Get full access to The Austen Connection at austenconnection.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode we welcome special guest Bianca Hernandez to talk about current affairs in the Jane Austen fandom, including the push that dedicated Janeites are making to foster inclusion in our online community. Join us to hear about the barriers that BIPOC and other marginalized Janeites continue to encounter in Austen fan spaces, and why representation in Austen adapations is so important to growing a diverse Janeite community. Finally, learn about her upcoming Virtual Jane Con event on May 1-2, 2021!   You can find Bianca online at Bookhoarding on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube, and check out her new patreon!

Why do Austen’s novels inspire an almost religious fervour? --- “There’s no one to touch Jane when you’re in a tight spot,” declares a character in the Kipling short story “The Janeites”, in which a group of soldiers in the trenches of World War I bond over their shared love of Austen. Today, Austen fandom approaches levels of devotion unrivalled by almost any other author. At the same time, her six novels are often dismissed as “chick lit”. In this episode, Simon agrees (with some reluctance) to finally read Pride and Prejudice - and is surprised by what he finds. Natasha speaks with Katrina Clifford, Dean of Academics at Robert Menzies College and a scholar of eighteenth-century literature, about why so many people over the last two centuries have been so obsessed with Austen. From Mormon or Amish adaptations to the handful of surviving prayers we have from Jane’s pen; from Austen’s male historical mega-fans (Churchill, Tolkien) to the BBC’s famous lake scene; this conversation has something for everyone - whether you’re a diehard Janeite, or need a bit of convincing to give Austen a go.

Hi Janeite and welcome to the What the Austen? podcastI'm your host Izzy and every very month I will be joined by a guest and fellow Janeite as we discuss Jane Austen's work we will be exploring her much loved novels and her timeless characters from the dreamy, the villanous and the slightly strange. I hope you will stick around and join the Janeites tribe as we have the best time discussing our much loved novels. Head over to instagram @whattheaustnen for all the latest updates and for more Jane Austen themed content. Support the show

In this episode, we're thrilled to welcome special guest Sarah Rose Kearns, actor, playwright, and consummate Janeite! We chat with Sarah Rose about her new adaptation of Persuasion, which will be staged (hopefully) in New York this fall. We also discuss her one-act play Manydown, which will be included as part of UNC Chapel Hill's Jane Austen Summer Program. Join us to learn how Sarah Rose interprets key aspects of Persuasion, and discover the fascinating challenges of making Austen come alive onstage. [Note: since recording this podcast, JASNA announced that their 2021 Annual General Meeting will indeed be held in person!]

Join us for a mash-up of murder mystery and Regency romance- Death Comes to Pemberley by P.D. James. Spoiler alert! We will be revealing whodunnit so read before you listen. We are joined by friend and fan of the show, Rose, a Janeite with valuable intell on all things Austen. We crown another Queen of Crime and talk about the potential chocolates that are "on brand" with the murder mystery genre. We also discuss toilet humour, blaggards and the price of a cockapoo. Mystery Mentions The Black Tower, An Unsuitable Job for a Woman and Cover Her Face- P.D. James AOB: National Archives currency converter, Women's Prize for Fiction, Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion - Jane Austen, A Vindication of the Rights of Woman - Mary Wollstonecraft Next book: The Case of the Late Pig by Margery Allingham In the mood for more mystery? Check out Episode 12 - The Mystery of Oaklands (Just William) (also featuring an expert guest) Follow us on Instagram: @missingsalmoncase Share with a friend: The Unsolved Case of the Missing Salmon Nominate a Queen of Crime: missingsalmoncase@gmail.com This podcast is created, produced and edited by Maddy Berry and Hannah Knight. Our music is sourced from Melody Loops and composed by Geoff Harvey.

I'm joined this week by writer, social media specialist, and fellow Janeite, Rachel Amber Bloom. Rachel gives me a crash course on the Star Trek fandom, we compare favorite childhood books, and we of course talk at length about all things Jane Austen, from favorite novels, to the dearth of non-Pride & Prejudice fanfic, to Emma adaptation rankings (spoiler: we both put Clueless at the top).  Listen to Rachel on the podcast Masks and Mayhem. Find links to the topics we discuss plus a list of Rachel's recommended books at RhondaWithABook.com and get exclusive bonus content through my Patreon. You can also follow me on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rhondapods/support

This Tuesday on Tea & Tattle Podcast, I’m joined by the fabulous Lucy Worsley to discuss Lucy’s latest novel for young adults, The Austen Girls. Lucy Worsley is an historian, writer, television presenter and the Chief Curator of the Historic Royal Palaces, with her office situated at Hampton Court Palace. Lucy is the author of several bestselling books, including the captivating biography of Jane Austen, Jane Austen at Home. Her historical stories for children aged 11-14 are also hugely popular, and I loved The Austen Girls, which tells the story of Jane Austen’s favourite nieces, Anna and Fanny, and the difficult decisions they must make as they approach womanhood and look ahead to the prospect of balls and marriage proposals. Tasked by their Aunt Jane to be the heroines of their own lives, both Fanny and Anna must decide the kind of women they wish to become. I highly recommend The Austen Girls for anyone who is homeschooling during lockdown, as - as well as being a fun, gripping story that both children and adults can enjoy - The Austen Girls also gives a fascinating perspective on the domestic sphere of women in Georgian England. The novel, of course, also provides some excellent background to Jane Austen’s world, and it’s a lovely read for any Janeite. I had a fabulous time chatting to Lucy about her love for Jane Austen and how she came to write this novel about the Austen nieces. Read the show notes: teaandtattlepodcast.com/home/135 Get in touch! Email: teaandtattlepodcast@gmail.com Instagram: @teaandtattlepodcast If you enjoy Tea & Tattle, please do rate and leave a review of the show on Apple Podcasts, as good reviews help other people to find and enjoy the show. Thank you!

Pat Donnez praat met Kristien Hemmerechts over Herman de Coninck, Jane Austen en anderen.Tweehonderd jaar na haar haar dood ligt de Engelse schrijfster Jane Austen nog bijzonder goed in de markt. Kristien Hemmerechts is een volboed ‘Janeite,’ ze kent Austens werk door en door. Voor Klara ging ze op zoek naar Austen, in 'Looking for Jane.' En twintig jaar na zijn dood ligt de Vlaamse dichter Herman de Coninck nog bijzonder goed in de markt. Kristien Hemmerechts is een volbloed Hermaniste, ze kent De Conincks werk door en door..

We're back in the podcast hut with a Team Austen episode! This week, we interview the lovely Sophie Andrews. Sophie runs a Janeite blog called Laughing with Lizzie, and was recently featured in the BBC documentary - My Friend Jane. Follow Sophie on Twitter: @LaughingwithLiz You can check out her site here: http://laughingwithlizzie.blogspot.com/

We interrupt the epic battle between Darcy and Heathcliff to bring you this very special episode about the Jane Austen Festival in Louisville, Kentucky! Janeite and knitting expert, Mary Kravenas sits in for Hannah to tell us about her festival experience. And Lauren interviews Bonny Wise, the founder of JASNA Louisville and festival director. Get ready for some serious bonnet talk! Check out the JASNA Louisville site - http://jasnalouisville.com/ Follow Mary on Twitter and the 'gram - @PurdyMaryk

In this episode Gabriella and Claudette review Whit Stillman’s enchanting “Love & Friendship” based on Jane Austen’s epistolary novel Lady Susan. Among other things, Gabriella and Claudette chat about Stillman’s career, Kate Beckinsale’s star turn as Lady Susan Vernon, the “Cult of the Janeite” and what exactly constitutes a perfect Jane Austen adaptation. Notes: Apologies […]