Podcasts about vdom

Have you ever pondered on the revolutionary innovations taking place within the LGBT community? Join us, as we dive into an insightful conversation with our guest Glenise, the ingenious mind behind SkiiMoo Tech. SkiiMoo Tech is a game-changer; designing products that cater specifically to the LGBT community and addressing gaps in the market. We kick off the discussion with their revolutionary first product, VDOM, a smart penis device designed to add spontaneity to your sex life and offer gender-affirming solutions for transgender individuals.https://thevdom.com/https://www.facebook.com/thevdomatlhttps://www.instagram.com/the.vdom/https://www.tiktok.com/@the.vdom Contact the hosts of A Queer Understanding info@aqueerunderstanding.com https://www.aqueerunderstanding.com/ Like, subscribe, & follow FB @aqueerunderstanding IG @aqueerunderstanding Twitter @QueerUnderstand

Esse é mais um conteúdo sobre expansão de consciência, um freestyle de conexão com uma frequência elevada. A intenção é te provocar a pensar sobre o que é o NOVO em sua vida e permitir que a consciência Cristica se manifeste em/por/com você.

As vezes é necessário... | Vdom by Denis Marx

Como Surfar na Multidimensionalidade | Vdom by Denis Marx

The Sex Tech revolution will not be televised! Join me, Taylor Sparks, in this in-depth discussion on the sexual technology revolution being led by The Vdom Founder, Glenise Kinard-Moore! Her Vdom is a blue tooth operated prosthetic penis that was originally designed to enhance sexual relations within the LGBTQ+ community. In addition it has expanded to be life-changing for those with disabilities and erectile dysfunction. Listen in now to this inspiring conversation on innovation, perseverance and the business of sex. Most recently her sex tech company, Skiimo Tech became the first sex tech company to take second place at Pharrell Williams' Black Ambition Prize. Better still, the vdom is now available for purchase via the link below. Glenise Kinard-Moore Bio: Based in Atlanta. Glenise Kinard-Moore is a wife, a daughter, sister (youngest of three), tech nerd, idealist, and visionary. An information security professional by day and an ambitious tech creative by night. Glenise's superpower is breaking apart things to create new things. She holds an undergraduate degree from Georgia State University, where she attended as a student-athlete. Having worked within the information security world for the last six plus years, Glenise holds several information security and audit industry certifications. Using her advanced tech skills and knowledge Glenise chose to challenge herself by finding a solution to the annoying world of limited and ineffective products. Wanting to design something that could be worn comfortably all day and hands-free as much as naturally possible. Her aim was the wearable that would also be able to go from non-erect to erect via a simple process. She succeeded and The VDOM was born. The VDOM is set to be available to consumers in spring 2021, pre-orders are set to begin this month. Stay up to date with Glenise via: Website: www.thevdom.store Instagram: @the.vdom Facebook: @vdomatl Twitter: @vdomatl Youtube: @vdomatl Stay up to date with Sisters of Sexuality via: Website: www.sistersofsexuality.com Email: sistersofsexuality@gmail.com Instagram: @sistersofsexuality Facebook: @sexysostour Twitter: @sistersofsex Visit all our sister site Organic Loven for all and sign up for our newsletter for exclusive subscriber offers! If you liked this episode, LEAVE A COMMENT! LIKE REVIEW SUBSCRIBE SHARE SUPPORT --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sistersofsexuality/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/sistersofsexuality/support

Multidimensional - #Vdom by Denis Marx

Hold on- an app that can give your strap on an erection?? When I heard about the VDOM I knew I had to have Glenise on the show and pick her brain. We chat about sex AI, how to engineer a sex toy, and how Atlanta shaped the development of her groundbreaking device.  Pre-order or learn more about Glenise at: thevdom.com They are on Instagram @the.vdom  Check me out @bbirna or @beyondbedroompodcast  beyondthebedroom.org 

In today's episode, I interview Glenise Kinard - Moore, the Founder and CEO Skii MooTech which produces their product the VDOM. SkiiMoo Tech was created to disrupt the status quo and break through societal barriers by leveraging "all things tech". Their focus is on creating tech-based consumer products for niche markets that are usually not at the forefront. Their premier product, The VDOM, is the first app-connected prosthetic penis that can go from flaccid to erect at the push of a button or via a swipe on a smartphone or smartwatch. This device is specifically designed to enhance the lifestyles of LGBTQ+ people, Erectile Dysfunction sufferers, and Spinal cord injury patients. While pre-order quantities have sold out, you can join our waitlist at www.thevdom.com Enjoy the episode!

INTRODUCTION: Anna, pronouns anything respectful, is a Chicago-born social entrepreneur who builds streaming platforms which center & celebrate BIPOC & QTPOC creatives. Media has always been her passion and in 2009 she turned that passion into a reality when she founded E3 Radio, an online radio station playing Queer music & reporting on Queer news with an intersectional lens. Most recently, she founded The Qube, a curated app of music & podcasts by BIPOC & QTPOC creatives. Anna is determined to ride media into its next era by utilizing digital media streams to tell the stories and play the music that deserves to be heard.  Learn more about her work here. In no particular order I'm also a daughter, wife, sister, and friend who loves cooking and running. Favorite Quote: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” –Gandhi Did you know? Anna has been in love with Robin Roberts all her life. Interviewing her would be the ultimate experience. Media Coverage ABC 7 Pride Coveragehttps://abc7.ws/3BGSAZz  Choose Your Struggle https://open.spotify.com/episode/5VaUCZRfUCxUNzdfmAibuV?si=Wqu7M0knQmWZYyJ_Ahmleg&nd=1 191: Learn How To Do Queer Radio Right with Anna DeShawn, Founder of E3 Radiohttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/191-learn-how-to-do-queer-radio-right-anna-deshawn/id1189319336?i=1000521261587  Trindi Media Podcasthttps://podcasts.bcast.fm/e/mn4wvyq8 Park Careers Podcasthttps://anchor.fm/icparkcareerspodcast/episodes/Episode-9--Anna-DeShawn-IC07-e10l4bp/a-a5haqne   INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      Exposure To The Qube App·      Celebration Of BIPOC & QTPOC Creatives·      Why It's Good To Be Complete BEFORE You Enter A Relationship·      Why Mental Health Therapy Is SOOO Damn Good For You·      The Variety Of Mental Health Options Available To You·       A Warning Against Being Addicted To Church·      A Warning About Biblical Interpretation·      Politics & Religion = YUCK!·      Why Being Non – Straight Is Not A Damn Choice! CONNECT WITH ANNA: Website & Radio: https://www.AnnaDeShawn.comTikTok: https://tiktok.com/@annadeshawn Facebook: https://facebook.com/annadeshawnInstagram: https://instagram.com/annadeshawn  Twitter: https://twitter.com/annadeshawn  E3 Radio: https://e3radio.fmThe Qube: https://theqube.app   ANNA'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      EyeWear: https://thekayakollection.com·      VDOM: https://thevdom.com/the-vdom/ CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: What's up. What's up. What's up everyone. I'm so happy to have you with me again. One more week. I hope everyone is fucking fantastic. Happy Cinco de Mayo. Today we have a spotlight on black indigenous people of color and queer trans people of color as well. Anna de Shawn has created the cube app, which is a safe space for creative people of color of various ideas.We dish on religion, sex [00:01:00] self-acceptance mental health and so much more. And I throw some shade at Lakewood church over in Houston, Texas, because of the way they dehumanize people behind the scenes. Take a listen to my people.Anna. Good girl, girl. How the fuck is you doing the day? That's what I need to know. Anna: I'm amazing that I'm here with you period. De'Vannon: Looking at you, trying to gain me up, see energy. Like that is the reason why sometimes contemplate letting a lesbian fuck me in the ass because y'all have got that. Yeah. The game was on point.The words on point y'all is I am a survivor. I'm like, oh, almost y'all I'm just like Emile come in there. And I'm like a good low to come in my ass. Okay. Anna: We don't get that. We don't got that. We got a lot of other things, but we got a lot of other. De'Vannon: Although they [00:02:00] have those buildings. Now you can put something like different juices or whatever in them, and then it'll squirt it into whatever hole you want.So Anna: mommy, my homemade is actually creating this really amazing strap. It's her, her business is called V Dom. Y'all should check it out. V D O M she was on television recently for a pitch competition. Like it's like mechanical, so it's not hard all the time. So you hit a button, it gets hard on the, on the whim.It's like from an app. So you don't gotta go. And like, yo it's legit stuff. It's good De'Vannon: stuff. So it's a Dick, a plastic Dick that get, that can give, go from levels of softness to hard, Anna: but the press of a button. De'Vannon: I ain't seen that before. Hmm. Next level I found real. It, it okay. Also Anna de Shawn is a bad bitch.She. It's the [00:03:00] greater of an app called the cube. She hosts the radio station and everything like that. And she considered herself to also be a social entrepreneur as an initial. We're going to be talking about what the cube is, how this benefits the LGBTQ plus community, the alphabet mafia, as I like to call us, because we will fuck a bitch up if we have to, we don't want to, but sometimes y'all just make us pull the will Smith on a bitch and just Anna: necessary.Okay. Sometimes it's necessary.De'Vannon: I don't think he should have done it, but I'm not here to judge him. I feel suck his Dick right now and buy tickets to his movie. But I, we, we, we will not be slapping everybody on Smith. Anna: I don't know what he was thinking. I think actually, I think he thought it was recorded. I think he forgot. It was like. I mean, there's so De'Vannon: many of them things, it's just like he's sitting at his [00:04:00] kitchen table.Anna: I think he forgot it was left. I think he thought they were going to be able to enter that up. De'Vannon: So we'll be talking about what the cube is. It's a new thing specific for our community and people of color and things like that to help help us with podcasts and getting our creative arts and media out there.And then we're going to talk about Anna's history. She has a lot of history with the church and church Bo shit, and there's so much bullshit and the church is unreal. And so what do you got to say about your own history? Tell us about you got the run Anna: down to the quick rundown, quick rundown south side of Chicago, born and raised.I consider myself a social entrepreneur who. Platforms digital platforms that celebrate and center black, brown and queer folks of color. I, I love my [00:05:00] people and I love the power that media has to actually create some change, some meaningful change to humanize people's stories and experiences. And I think that we have the power to shift that, you know, if we tap into it and since 2009, I've been interviewing black queer folks to raise awareness around our stories out of Chicago.And I've always been into media. Let's be clear, Robin Roberts is everything to me. Okay. I want it to grow up and be just like her on ESPN or doing some play by play announcing. But it became very clear that people don't look like me on television. They're not masculine the center. Prokes a report in the 10 o'clock news.Okay. But radio allowed for me to speak to folks without folks having to see me. And that is a very powerful thing. And I realized I really loved it. So I got into radio. Which of course leads you into podcasting. And then I just saw the same things that were happening in traditional media. What's happening in podcasts.I'm like, where are my black people at? Where am I brown people at? Where am I queer [00:06:00]folks of color at? Like, why is it that when I go to apple and Spotify and all these places, like I can't find my people and I wanted to change that. De'Vannon: Well, it is a noteworthy thing you're doing. And I can tell you have sense enough to understand that this is something that's takes time.You know, this is, this is a long-term dedicated process. Does it? Don't take, you know, a long, long time to, to see, come to fruition. Hopefully you see it in your generation, but you know, you know, these things take time. So I appreciate that. You're laying this foundation here, you know, for generations to come, you know, I can see it in a, in a hundred years, you know, you know, when you did that and gone somebody is going to have a very successful.Show you know, public broadcast and everything like that. You gonna be like, we want to thank him to Sean for the work that we did back in 2009 to make this day [00:07:00] possible for me in 3050 or whatever the Anna: case. That's unbelievable. Let me tell you. But I do say this, that I do see the radio station and what we're building with the cube as being far bigger than myself, I feel like, and I think we connect can connect on this on a spiritual level.Like we're here because we're called to do something. And when I think when you tap into your call, it is bigger than you because you're just a vessel for the work and you've been given some gifts and you, and you've been called to use them. And so I feel like I'm called to use these gifts in this way.Everything about me says I'm about systematic changes about changes that can affect masses amount of people. That's what I'm called to do. Some folks is called to be in the streets activating, you know, some folks has called to do one-on-one work and change people's lives one by one by one. And I feel like I've been called to change folks' lives through media and a massive amount of [00:08:00] ways.And so I'm excited about what the cube is going to be to the world of podcasting. I'm excited what it's going to be for discoverability. Today 43% of people listening to podcasts actually identify as people of color and there's no place that is serving those folks. And the discoverability of those folks.There's so many people like you creating amazing content, raw content, authentic content, quality content, and more people need to know, you know what I'm saying about sex drugs and Jesus. Come on. De'Vannon: Okay. We don't want to go down that rabbit hole is a tight, deep hole and trust me may have gotten stuck in it.Anna: I love you. De'Vannon: So I love you too, baby. So one of my favorite things about you. So we're going to talk about Anna for a little bit and get into her personal story, which tells us a lot about why she's doing what she's doing. And then we're going to get very granular and talk very specifically about what the cube [00:09:00] is, where you can find it.Who's who was this for a podcast. As people want to go on shows what sort of content you can find there and all of that. So when I was reading through your bio and everything like that, and researching you as I do, I found that your pronouns, you don't have like, he, she, they. You know, whatever you said, anything respectful.And I admire the open-mindedness of that and the flexibility of that, it reminds me a lot of myself because when people ask me who I am, sometimes I like to refer them to the Torah, you know, to the, to the oh, Hebrew scripture when when Moses was first called by God. And he had his slippers off on the side of the mountain and God was in the burning Bush.And Moses was like, God, who is you? Who are you? He was trying to put God in a box and figure out how shall I, what can, what can, how can I associate you with what I already know? Okay. And God told him, bitch, I am that I am. [00:10:00] And that's all there is to it. Anna: Yes. Is that a quote description? That is, I am what I am and that's really it.Right. Because the point of even. The initiatives around using someone's proper pronouns is about respect. It is about honoring someone's identity, right? And for me, depending on what space I'm in child, ain't no telling what the pronouns is going to be. If I, with my boys, it's just, it is whatever. Right.And then I'm in society and people see me a certain way. And then that's that all I'm saying is with respect to who I am. So anything respectful is what resonates most with me, De'Vannon: right? Because it's in the tone of voice in the spirit behind the words. So you can be like, what a bitch and mean it would love.And you can be like, oh, Hey girl, Amina, what all the painting is and violent as that you could contrive. And when you hate that bitch, and you're like, Hey girl, you [00:11:00] know, that was not really in the word, but isn't the heart behind it. More than anything.Anna: Absolutely cause the shade is real. You can notice the shade.Okay. De'Vannon: At all. Oops. Plaque.Anna: You don't have it, but I see it. Okay. Y'all got it. But I see it. De'Vannon: I keep one in my glove compartment, just in my car, just in case I needed somewhere. And I got several in the house. Anna: So does my wife, Lord, all the De'Vannon: things, speaking of that. Yeah. And your bio, it says you are a daughter, a wife, a sister, and a friend who loves cooking and running.What I wanted to know from you about the wife. How did it feel? I want to know how did it feel to be married? Did you have any struggles and things like that? I don't meet a whole lot of married women. I don't. So talk to me about that whole process. Anna: Yeah, we just celebrated our five-year wedding [00:12:00] anniversary.We've been together for nine years. Just like when I met her, my momma loved there. Okay. And I don't like the ideas of, or the statements around, like someone completes me. I was done and completed, but she just adds so much to my life. She's just such a sweet and kind person. And she just fit right in with my family.It was like she had always been there. Everybody embraced her and, and I love her. So she's my best friend. She is the ultimate diva. Okay. She is the most high film woman I have ever dated in my life. But she balances me out and I just love her to pieces. De'Vannon: Yeah. Opposites attract like that. I learned that when I was in my hitting the therapy class, I was training to be a licensed hypnotist, which I am, you know, there's all kinds of signs [00:13:00]behind why quiet, conservative people attract more outgoing people, you know, and vice versa.If you too much alike, you tend to repel each other, you know, to put it simply my boyfriend's the same way. He's quiet. Fucking there. Okay in there, I'm the ones linking from the poles and the chandelier's and hitting the splits. And even now with all of that, you know, showing up, you know, shutting the shit down and everything, and he couldn't even talk.He would, he's not necessarily the most comfortable talking to people in public. You know, when I walk in the bitch, I own the room. Oh, his y'all's belongs to me until I leave this bitch. Anna: Okay. And let me tell you, so I turn it on when a microphone is in front of me, but other than that, I don't have to say a word to anybody.Okay. Yes, my wife is the same way. She walked into a room, she's a stylist. She just takes up space. Okay. Take some space. You came misled. And she also sells, I wear all right. [00:14:00] So the Kia collection.com. So she sells customer. I wear. And so every time she walked into a room, somebody taken something off her face off her risk, won't something.And she is, she's the life of a party.Oh, yeah. The K a collection.com. K a K a Y a K O L L E C T I O N. So the K a collection.com. De'Vannon: Okay. So then I'm like, Hey, yo, collection.com. All right. I'll drop that shit in the show notes, but show ya. I also heard what you said about how you were complete before you met her. This is something I concur with.None of this. This person completes me. I'm lost without you. I can't. Oh that you better know who you are before you get into a relationship with somebody. And a lot of that has to do with just theory, spirituality and shit like that. I think so many relationships in between. People lose [00:15:00] sight of their own individual identity in the whole process.And if you're not in tune with who you are, you're not going to be able to truly cater to that other person. You know, you gotta be whole firstAnna: a hundred percent and let's also be clear. We all been broken, right? So I ain't coming up here. Like I walked, I woke up like this therapy saved my life. Right.Therapy saved my life. We've all had tough and challenging relationships that have taken you all types of places that you never thought you would go. Then at some point you have to like, do some self reflection. Like, is it me? Maybe it's me. And you got to own that. You have to own that. Otherwise you'll continue to date the same person over and over again in a different body with a different sign and all types of stuff.And that was my reality. I had realized that I was dating the same person over and over again. I'm like, what is wrong? And so quickly checked myself into therapy and it saved my life. And so when my wife came into my [00:16:00] life, I didn't need completing. At that point, I was very clear about who I was and who I am.And she was just like the perfect fit into, into my life. So now we have our life with our puppy and grateful. De'Vannon: So when you say you checked yourself into therapy, are you being general in that saying you started seeing a therapist, did you check into a residential. Anna: I'll say it in general. Like I went to start, I started seeing a therapist and I've seen a few over my life and actually it's just about to start seeing a new one.And I think there'll be, is one of these things where you can choose to be in it for a really long time with the same person, but sometimes you even grow out of your therapist. And so sometimes you have to shift and sometimes you don't need it anymore and sometimes you gotta restart it because life would be doing a lot of living.And we just went through what, two years of an airborne panic. And if you listen into this, that means you survived it too. And [00:17:00] so none of us are the same as we were in 2019. There's no way you're the same person. So I think that there's there's seasons. And so I'm in a season where I got a lot going on.So I'm about to go see another therapist and it's just, if you've never done it, it's just a refreshing opportunity to talk to someone who is not fully engaged in your life, but can offer an outside an outside viewpoint that is often not, it's not critical, it's not judging. Right. You find somebody that works with you that you can vibe with, and you'll find yourself lighter after leaving.They're clearer, maybe about something you're struggling with. And for me, it was, it saved my life. De'Vannon: What kind of therapist? A licensed clinical social worker, a Anna: licensed clinical social worker and a black woman. De'Vannon: I find the LCSW to be [00:18:00] more like down to earth, then send like a psychologist, cause an LCSW is not prescribing medication.So they're actually the only way they can help you is through the words and the talking and the exercises and the practices. They, they, they give you to take home. I see an LCSW. I see a licensed marriage and family therapist together with my boyfriend together for, I don't know, 2, 3, 4 years, some shit I don't keep up with the damn time.You have to ask him I'm bad with birthdays and just general time, because I, I view things more eternal. You know, I don't believe in time constraints. It always has existed and always will in a way. And so And then I see my hypnotherapists individually and I love hypnotherapy because of how focused it is and how it gets into the subconscious and how you rip out what you don't want.You speak back to your open, vulnerable mind, which you do want. And so I particularly use that to help me stay off of [00:19:00] drugs. And so all. So that is our plug for mental health, because we know that it's something that's lacking in both the color community and in the gay community. It is not a straight a strike to your pride.If you want to go talk to somebody about getting help, there's many different types of therapists. That's why I asked her that if you go to one therapist and they're a fucking piece of shit, then fuck that hell you go to somebody else. Maybe you need a different type of therapy. There's all sorts of new age, metaphysical shit out there, getting the therapy Stella constellations all kinds of mind, body, soul meditation, shit.If you don't want to do traditional therapist, you can therapy. You can do the shit off his own. Now there's all kinds of shit. So whatever it is you think mental health is if you have a bad taste in your mouth about it I asked you to revisit it and take a second look at it. Because again, I said, we all had been fucked.You know, and so you need help to get unfucked up and to get an objective perspective. So you [00:20:00] don't keep getting fucked up relationships and sabotaging yourself. So just humble yourself down and go get some help, baby. And look, no one has to know, these therapists are bound by confidentiality, so it's not like they can go put it on social media that you were in treatment, or they would get their license taken and probably go to jail.So it's a secret, nobody. Nobody nobody has to Anna: know that's right. And may is mental health awareness month. So there is so much information out here right now in promoting and making awareness, you know, mental health awareness, I think this month. So you just one Google search. De'Vannon: Just one Google search away.So a quote that you had it says is your favorite pro. You said at first they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you, then you win. And that was by Gandhi. Tell me what this quote means to you.[00:21:00]Anna: And that you can't be waiting for people to validate who you are or validate your idea or validate what you call to do. It is not about that. You know, people gonna go along for the ride, you have to be clear about what you want to do. And I think that along the way, you're going to encounter different people.You know, I'm building a business. I don't come from a whole lot. I come from a whole lot of love. And so, but we got a lot of things and a lot of people, I talked to a lot of asks and the requests, I take a lot of leaps of faith. I have to keep practicing my faith muscle and building up my face muscle and what it means to take risks.And along the way, I'm going to run into people that don't agree with me, who don't believe what I'm in, what I'm doing, who don't see a market for it, who don't see a need for it. And honestly, like when we make it, that's when everybody want to be down. So for me, that quote by Gandhi just resonates a lot with what it means to be on the journey.And not, and for me, it's [00:22:00] not caring so much about the destination because to your point, like, I feel like things just will continue to be, but it's about enjoying the journey. And that quote reminds me that it's a journey that is not just going to be one thing or another thing. It's all of things, De'Vannon: all of them each and every last one of them.I love the friction that comes along. When w when people would try to repel us, though, I believe it helps to meet tourists. And it helps to refine us like when a moth or a butterfly. It's trying to crawl a lot of that Chrysalis after they'd been a caterpillar, you know, that struggle helps to release the, you know, the blood flow in whatever juices are in their little furry bodies to expand their wings.You know, that that struggle is needed. They can not become what they are to be without the problems. And, you know, and so I'm thankful for all the Karens for all the church, people who told us we had to get out, you know, and, and everything like that. For [00:23:00] the people who told us since we were black, we can't, we can't stay there.And stuff like that. When I read that, I thought about how I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas for not being straight, you know, but eventually I'm going to get the victory over them. Cause you know, I've been there when they kicked me out. This was like 2008, 2009. And I just finished my book and I went into great detail about how I felt about all of that.It took me over 10 years, but I finally clapped. I finally clapped the back. And so I will win. Yes, Anna: you are winning. You are winning. You've already won. The victory is yours. You're already, De'Vannon: they may in an amen. Okay. So then I'm just curious about, what do you think some of the top issues are facing just the lesbian community today?Hmm. [00:24:00] And why are you thinking about that? I noticed some of your top lives being moments when I was researching you. I would agree with queen Latifa from set it off. Anna: Yes, honey. That is number one of all time. You know what? I would argue anybody down and say that ain't the number one black lesbian moment in film, because.She was studied out in and go, okay, let dances. It was everything. Okay. It's a freaking classic acquaint. Lindsey foot is number one and she ain't even have to be out she out now, but she ain't going to have to be out. She is out to us anyway. So that was actually a really fun video to do. And I'll probably do another one because so many people rode in some of their favorite black lesbian moments that I had not even thought about again, or that people didn't tell me about because I asked my friends.So for example Lena commented, Lena [00:25:00] wave comments. And then she was like, what about when Tasha was on, came out on the L word? And I was like, dang, that was a pivotal moment because L where had been so white up until that point and it Tasha show up and just wreck the crew. And I was just like, Hey you.Right. So I'll probably do another video. But I think, I think for lesbians, some of the major challenges is still representation. And I think there is a lot of invisibility happening with lesbians. So there's a, there's a podcast called cruising, which on this podcast and but there's a podcast called cruising and they have like three lesbians going across the country and they are going to all of the last lesbian bars.And so there's 60,000 bars across the country and there's only 25 lesbian bars, 25 lesbian owned bars across the whole country. And so they did a whole podcast traveling around the country and visiting these bars. [00:26:00] So I think that there is a great need for visibility of lesbians. Not only in media, but just in life in general, you know?And I think lesbians often can kind of get lost in the south. So similar to how people feel like there's some invincibility with, by bisexuals in the community right now, I think, you know, a lot of trans folks get a lot of press because there is a political onslaught happening from right wing conservatives politically.And it doesn't mention, you know, gay folks or lesbian folks or bisexual folks it's specifically mentioned trans folks, you know, and I think that there's some, there's a definitely a sector of lesbians who feel like they have been left behind often also because we use the word queer these days and no one really uses the word lesbian.So I know that there's some lesbians out there that just feel like they've been left [00:27:00]somewhere in the eighties and. I think it's a, I think it's a challenge for them in that respect with all that being said, if one of our alphabet mafia is as you put it, okay, it's being attacked. Then we all being attacked.If we all don't have freedom, then none of us have freedom. So I think that some of what I hear as lesbian concerns, you know, aren't really concerns at all. I think it is fear. And I think that when our trans fam is experiencing right now, what they are experiencing right now affects every single last one of us.De'Vannon: So when you say someone says there's a lesbian concern and it's not really a concern, it sounds like you're speaking about hate and ignorance. Anna: Well, it might be a problem for them. It's not a problem for me. I think [00:28:00] that. I think it's just people being who they are.And I think that there, I think that people evolve and I think that terms evolve. And so I think there are people who are lesbians, who identify with a very strict definition of what it means to be a lesbian. I think there's people who identify with the very strict definition of what it means to be, get men who love men and women who love women.Like these are various particular definitions like that is it. And that is all right. That we're coming upon a time. I felt like we were living in a time where there is sexual fluidity and so forth, and I can speak for myself and I statements are so helpful in these moments. It's like I came out as a lesbian, but at the end of the day today, I identify as queer because child, I love a lot of things.Okay. And it's not just, it's not just women or assists women. Okay. It's just not. And so I needed an expansive word. I needed an expansive definition outside of [00:29:00] lesbian to identify with. So I think that I think oftentimes people get. And what they always known or anything like or stuff like that.But at the end of the day, things evolve, people evolve terms, evolve, communities evolve. And I also think that if there is one major issue affecting lesbians today, it is just continues to be a lack of representation and visibility, especially for masculine scent and lesbians. I mean, fam lesbians, they, their level of Ms.Visibility is a whole nother story, right? I've I've had films. Tell me, like, I intentionally date, you know, masculine of center women. So people know that I am a lesbian. I don't want you to think I'm straight, you know? And for masculine of center women, there is a, there is an appearance that out you, when you walk out the house.So you know, [00:30:00] visibility on a grander scale is still not there, even though there's a different level of acceptance. I believe four lesbians than there are even for gay men. I think gay men have a whole other struggle that around masculinity, especially in this country, that it's just really different than the lesbian experience.I've talked about. A friend I grew up with a gay guy who was very flamboyant, right? We was cool. He had to come to school with a knife right in his shoe. He never left home without a knife. And underneath the sole of his shoe, that was not my story. I never felt unsafe. He always felt unsafe. And I think at the core of it, I mean, there's so much to be said around the differences between a male identified experience and a woman identified experience within the LGBTQ community.De'Vannon: Let's talk about these experiences in the church. So in researching you, there is some Lutheran Baptist. History [00:31:00] here. Talk to us about how you grew up in cherish. Anna: Ah, man, my mama and my daddy met at church. So my dad has been a teacher for 40 years and he was teaching at teaching at a private Lutheran school where my mom had enrolled my sister.So my sister is 17 years older than me. And so my mom rolled my sister there and then they started a love affair in which they had to keep on, on the low, because the teachers weren't supposed to be thanking the parents, the parents were supposed to be dating the teacher's child, but in a way,and let me tell you, 40 years later, they still at the same church. Okay. So. They landed at a black Lutheran church on the south side of Chicago. And so that's where I grew up, but my dad's side of the family started a missionary Baptist church also on the south side of Chicago. So I would often have two Easter speeches.Okay. I, we would often end up going to two different churches on Sundays. Cause my family was at that church, [00:32:00] my uncles, my aunts, my grandma. I mean, everybody was that Christian Love missionary Baptist church. Right. And so we would, you know, time's always different to, with black church. So Lutherans start at a bright and early 10:00 AM.Okay. And we was done in 60 minutes, strong, maybe 75 on communion. Sunday Baptist church was just getting started about 11 and praise and worship. 30 minutes. And so by the time we get that, we still at the beginning of the service, so it would a lot more shouting to go. So it was definitely two very different religious experiences growing up too, which I think just kinda tells a lot about my life in general.The dichotomies. I'll be one place at one moment and be in total different place in the moment. Another moment, you know, I could be at some highfalutin place one moment, and then I could be in the projects the next moment. All of it [00:33:00] made sense to me for where I was in my life. But church church was a good time.De'Vannon: So you're a preacher's kid. You, you, you say that would explain why you are freaking, you call yourself queer into all things. You have them PKS. I'm pretty freaky deaky. Anna: We get into some things, we get into some things and they'll see it. My dad. So he's a deacon, but at the end of the day, he could preach anywhere and he does preach all the time.And. He just for Lutherans, you got a lot of rules, regulations. And so he never went back to get that final piece, but he has his master's in divinity and all this stuff. So, yeah. Child, Sundays, Wednesdays, Saturdays, and church. De'Vannon: Yeah, that's awesome. That's how I was growing up. Pentecostal Wednesday, you know, Bible ban this night, delivering service this night and the other service [00:34:00] that night when I was at Lakewood, I was there four nights a week, choir practice, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, kids worship leading and teaching Saturday night kids, life choir, Sunday choir.I think, I think we get like addicted to church before we realized we are Anna: Church is a big part, right? If you grew up in the church, it's a big part of your identity. It's your community, it's your family and my home church where my parents still go is home. They have always loved me, always embracing me.I've never been anything that I'm not there, but I have my own thoughts around religion and religious organization. So joining the Missouri Senate is not an option for me because they don't see me as a whole person. So for me, it goes beyond the church. It's about the religious organization, right. [00:35:00] But it defined so much.And that's why when queer folks get rejected from church, It is incredibly impactful and can really damage and cause harm because the first couple of places you learn how to love is at home and at church. And that's often times the two places you spend the most time. And so when one, or both turn their back on you as a human being, you are not the same person you were before.It can, it, it leads you down a path that it, it destroys you period. Point blank. It destroys you, you know, and a lot of my work over the years has been around dismantling that and telling the truth about it. That Jesus never said one thing about gay people, not one, Jesus never said it. Now. I just, these clapper scriptures and everything else, I mean, The Bible is meant to be interpreted.It's meant to be [00:36:00] understood. It's meant to be put into context and the way folks have picked and chosen what they want to and who they want to damn to Hale is, is the most unlocked ungodlike thing they can absolutely ever do. And back in the day, I did this project with this organization called church, was in a church where we did a video 30 day release them to do video every 30 days called my God is not a bully to just emphasize that point that God is not bullying anybody.It's the people in the pulpit that are, and their lack of interpretation of scripture and in context of strip scripture. So The church means a lot to me actually is part of the Q we are releasing our own content as part of the queue and to, and one of our podcasts first podcast is called second Sunday.And I cannot wait for y'all to hear this podcast [00:37:00] because it's talking about the intersections of being black queer and in the church. And we had the opportunity to interview a lot of black queer theologians, lay people musicians for this podcast and the things that they share a child, it's just, it humanizes an experience that gets polarized a lot.And I hope I hope folks can get seen through this work. De'Vannon: Yeah. I was at a graduate at the Houston graduate school of theology and he of course, Euston, Texas, but I was going to get a master's of divinity as well. When you said that it, it popped out my ears, but I, I left that bitch. I broke up, I broke up and that bitch, when the, when the law professor said that, that they like to control people in church.And so that was like, well, I didn't come here to dominate motherfuckers, so I'll be going now. And so let me get more, I want to get more granular [00:38:00] with your per perspective. Cause I watched that video. One of the, one of the God is not a bully and I agree with what you're saying and it's at the epicenter of my message to people.I preach spiritual independence and people getting close to God on their own without a church or with one. But if you're going to have a church, remember that it's second to God. And so You bring up. Okay. So you're talking about like how the people are using the scripture to throw shade at people who are unlike them.It, how. Scriptural interpretation is very subjective and it is, everybody can read the Bible and come out of it with what they want. It's clearly not an easy to understand book because if it was simple to interpret, then you wouldn't need a thousand different translations of it. And so, I mean, And so since people are indoctrinated in such a young age, you know, at churches, you, you understand you go there to learn, but critical thinking about what the preacher is saying is not what's taught to you.And [00:39:00] so you're accepting whatever is being said. And by the time you're old enough to know any difference, you've got all of these issues to sort out, and then you feel conflicted about it because you've been told never to disagree with a preacher or a church, but now you like the shit don't make sense though.And so, so we add an out here to tell you that you will not burn up and go to hell for not being straight and to all the straight people. And I mean that loosely, because you never know what the hell people not doing behind closed doors. I didn't fuck so many straight married men and my day is unreal.And so you know, just, just know that while they're trying to use these scriptures over here to condemn you to hell since they want to be so strict about that. The, the Bible and everything. You know, the Bible speaks against getting divorced for any reason, other than infidelity. It speaks against interracial couples and stuff like that, stuff that we're all totally cool with.Now, them people in church got 50,000 divorces. [00:40:00] It all kinds of reasons and all kinds of mixed, mixed racial shit's going on. And I'm cool with all of it. But my whole point is this. If you're going to be such a hard ass about one part, you need to be a hard ass about the whole fucking thing. I don't want to see you eating nothing that divided the hoof.I don't want you getting down with the pig or nothing like that. If you going to be that much of a, of a bitch about it, then follow the whole fucking thing from end to end and not just a P a few slices of. Anna: And that's what they do, right? Those Christians like them, so-called Christians cause they not Christian some so called Christians.You know, they use, they use it for whatever they feel like they want to use it for. And they cause a lot of freaking harm and they're causing harm right now. And now it's entered the political round, you know? And we need more folks like you, we need more projects. I tell queer folks and LGBTQ young people that you'll still love that God still loves you.That your relationship with God is far more important [00:41:00] than whatever this preacher is saying from a pulpit. I also think critical thought is so incredibly important when you understand that there are books missing from the Bible, right? When you understand that, that what you're reading is not the entire Canon, like what are we doing here?People, what are we doing here? And also think it's easy to make God this very angry damning person and being. That was not what God taught at all. That's not what God taught at all. De'Vannon: He's not, he's a God of mercy and grace forgiveness, long suffering, slow to anger, quick, the mercy, quick, the compassion.That's what the scripture say. He's not like man, you know, quick to judge and clobber you and what you speak of about getting kicked out from churches and how it changes you. It's it's, it's what I call being dehumanized. It makes you feel like you're less than a person. And when a church tells you, you have to go.Not because of [00:42:00] something you've done with church has never supposed to tell anyone to go, no matter what, you know, Jesus accepted murderers and everybody. So for a terrace would be like, you can't go because of who you love, which is what Lakewood church did to me. You know, you can't. There, you know, you, that, that, that, that sent me on a downward spiral that ultimately led me into drugs and to drug dealing and to getting hepatitis B and HIV, my choice to do what I do, do what I did, but they certainly would've sparked the set that shit in motion and fuck them.Fuck you wake with church in on repeat, if we can dub stuff, that shit, then the video you also said. You, you made a comparison about how, okay. Say like procreation, one of the arguments people use against the non straight community is that God hates what you're doing because when you have sex, you can't, and there's no kid that's gonna come of it.[00:43:00]And then you were like, okay, well they're straight couples that God has prevented them from having children's. It was that because he hates them too. You know, it's not a, you can't apply that sort of a rubric evenly. You can't do it. And then you were also saying, you said something very interesting to me.You said that you wouldn't choose another burden and you were like, I'm already blessed. That's hard enough as it is. Do I really want. Add queer to it and all the problems that come along in this life, in that statement, you're rebutting the stupid shit. Like I heard Joyce Meyer and whoever the fuck else say that, where they think it's a choice, you know, like, like we just, oh, well we'll think we'll be gay today, you know, or some or some stupid shit like that as that is the most overly simplistic, dumb ass shit.These supposedly educated people Anna: say 100%. And I think that that's at the core of it. And I was talking to somebody recently whose child just came out to [00:44:00] them a year or so ago. And I was just like, you know, We have to start the conversation at choice with choice, because if you believe what I'm doing is a choice, then we're not going to get very far because at the heart of homophobia, is this idea that you can change.Hence why conversion therapy, right. Has been such a popular way for Christians to change people because you don't think it's a choice because you think it's a choice. But in fact, it's not. In fact, I grew up when my mama put me in bowls and matching ruffle socks. Okay. And doing everything in her power to make, to, to raise a feminine girl.And in fact, I was who I was from the moment I had any say over it. It's just not who I was. And I was very clear about that from a very young age. I was very clear that I was [00:45:00] athletic. Does that make me gay? No, but I was also very clear. I liked wearing my dad's shirts and my dad and I had the same initials and he gets his shirts embroidered with his initials on them.And I wanted to wear his shirts. I was not going to wear my mother's dresses. I didn't want nothing to do with heels. I didn't want to do a pantyhose. It's just, it just wasn't who I was and it's not who I am. And so I think all of these conversations around homophobia and transphobia and hate come around, the idea that who we are is a choice and who we are is not a choice in the same ways who they are, you know innately is not a choice.De'Vannon: That do be facts though, because if there was, they're going to apply that logic, the us, and it has to go in reverse. And I like you when I was two, three years old, I was already playing with Kendall. I was trying to see what was up under his shorts and shit like that. So, but if, but if there's a choice, then when did they kick to be straight?And [00:46:00] then if that's the case, are they confessing that they had homosexual desire at some point, you know, the way they tell it, they'd been straight from the beginning. So if that's the case, you know, it's uneven, but it's like anything else from your favorite food to your favorite color? Life is a thing of discovery.We do not get to put ourselves together like a doll or a made out of Play-Doh. You don't get to go. My favorite color is going to be green. My favorite dish is going to be lobster. My favorite state, I think I'll go with Kentucky. My favorite shoes, I think van sounds nice. You know, you, you get exposed to shit and then you pay attention to what keeps standing out to you.And what keeps drawing you in and then you go, oh, it seems like I'm into the color green or, oh, I think I really, really liked these fucking vans. They represent me. Well, you discover who you are, the beginnings of who you are, is shaped. And when you're in your mother's womb everywhere, she goes, the things she says, the people she talks to, the thing she thinks read, exposes [00:47:00] that child to everything, you cannot separate the two.So you're predisposed to so much before you're even born. So for them fuckers to be like, well, you chose to be gay. I goes again, signs and all logic. And they're just stupid as hell. Anna: Pretty much, pretty much. And what's really unfortunate is, is that I, I see that there can be a differentiation. So let me give you an example.Like you can believe that being queer is wrong, right? You can believe. But that should not equate to me not having the rights as a citizen, within a country that I pay taxes in, if that makes sense. So for me, politics shapes society. So you can think being gay is wrong, but that doesn't mean you have the right to limit my rights, [00:48:00] to control who I love control.If I can get married control, if I can get medical care control with books, I read you not have that type of control in my life. Just because you don't agree with who I am. I don't agree with you being a white, racist, homophobic transphobic person. Right. Right. But I ain't trying to write legislation to kill off your human existence.Right. Because that is exactly the fact of the matter is that what's happening across the country right now is killing. Trans youth, the numbers the suicide hotlines, like the Trevor project, they are outrageous right now, right? People are trying to leave states where they have had homes and families and a legacy because their children can't get the medical care they need.Because now politicians are saying that parents don't know what's best for their own children. How dare you? Just because you don't believe in who I am. [00:49:00] And I think it's just so incredibly contradictory because they don't want anyone telling them who they are or what they should be doing. You know,De'Vannon: if it's any consolation, these people are the hypocrites of our day. You had them in Jesus's time. I agree with what you said earlier, how the Bible is not complete. Some people will say everything you need to know about life it's in the Bible. That's bullshit. It's a general. It's a general guide to help get you close enough to God.So you can talk to him for yourself and then he can fix you and instruct you the rest of the way. But everything is not in there, but these, these Republicans and evangelicals and everything, these are today's hypocrites. Every generation has to have them. There's not going to come a time in this earth until probably the millennial kingdom when Jesus Christ reigns here again, but even, well, I'm not going to say that because even then there's going to be people who don't believe in him in the earth.And so there's always going to be those people who are contradictory, these people [00:50:00] are like how solid the apostle is before you became Paul. The thing is if God doesn't open somebody's eyes to their hypocrisy, then they won't see if you don't up in their ears to hear truth. They won't hear, they won't believe and be converted.Every generation has to have the people who are going to be citizens of hell bound to go to hell. Because if they have humility and love in their heart, they would go to heaven and they would be rugged. You people not going to accidentally end up in hell, you have to be like Pharaoh or somebody and just hardheaded ignoring the signs, not hearing what the people under you are trying to say, not hearing the voice of the people.That's how far was he just would not hear logic and reason because he was so set in his ways and what he wanted to want other people to do. Now, Paul Saul took his ass to the Sanhedrin saying Hedron was a religious council of the day. I think it's like 70 something. My fathers who control shit. It's no [00:51:00] different than legislation.The day, a whole group of motherfuckers who control. You say, I look this Jesus person and come here with his bullshit and these people trying to act like him and we can't be having none of this. So give me some power, some letters and shit. So then go arrest. They asses and beat them and fuck with them and shit beat this Jesus out of the acids.Cause this ain't right. It's on rip up our moral fabric. And this is going to tear our society down because of how they believe. And the Sanhedrin was like, go on, play a gong. Now his way to Damascus Jesus intercepted his bitch ass. And it was like, ah, ah, ah, ah, what you doing? You need to stop this shit because I did not send you scripturally speaking.He said, Saul saw, why, why are you persecuting me? It's hard for you to kick against the pricks. And so what do we have here? Somebody who said those people over there, I don't like what they doing. So let me in and enact laws to change them. And the Lord said, I don't want [00:52:00] you to do that. That, that is the what the whole beginning of that, that part of the book of acts is about Jesus Christ.Being against using the law to co Eris people to behave differently. It was right there yet. When those people, the people of our day, the hypocrites, the Republicans, evangelicals, if they even read they dusty ass Bibles, I don't see how they can. And when they read the Bible, they, they read it to find not what's wrong with other people.They are right there. But when they killed Steve and I'm going to say this and shut the hell up, but this is a hot button for both of us when they killed even the one who said to me, the first martyr, he read the religious people for Phil, and he told them, you motherfuckers are the same people who kill the prophets and everything like that.While you sitting up here trying to judge me that he, it was a whole long chapter in acts. And then they stoned him to death and everything like that. So these things must be so, Anna: and I think so, [00:53:00] Chad, you just said so much, there's so much to say. I think, I think at the heart of it also is that the theology, like your own spiritual connection to God is, can be so expansive.So the, to your point, right, the Bible is one thing. But then, right. Christians will tell you that all these, you shouldn't even explore these other religions. They can't give you nothing. Like, no, you can't get nothing out of nothing out of these, none of these other spaces. And I think to myself, like I thought God created everything.I thought God created everything. And if God created everything and God is in everything. And and I find myself having a very expansive worldview about God and my beliefs, like, so. Growing up. You're taught that if someone commits suicide, they go into hell. [00:54:00] And then now I was thinking, and then as I grew up, I was like, why would God send anybody to hell for committing suicide?And where does it say that in the Bible? And it doesn't right. We're just fed these. We fed these things out of fear to control you to not commit suicide, but who in the world told you that? When I think about the, the, the, the preachers and spiritual teachings that like folks around the world, anyone who doesn't call Jesus by name as their Lord and savior is going to go to hell, how is that possible?When there's people in the other countries, in the world who don't even know who Jesus is. So you're telling me that this God of love is going to send somebody who had an opportunity to get to know who, who Jesus was. That doesn't make any sense to me. And I think that. When for me, because of my sexual identity, it caused me to have to question a whole hell of a lot of stuff.Definitions of [00:55:00] what heaven heaven is, definitions of what hail is, definitions of who's going, and who's not, you begin to question all of it. And for me, when it boils down, I love it. When my mom says this to people about me. When she would tell me this all the time, she'd be like, have you read your 10 commandments recently?I don't see nothing in there about God, about gay people, you know? But I see a whole lot of other stuff that applies to you. Hello. So my mom, you know, she got to the point where she was empowered enough to, you know, stand up and say something and speak out about that. And I think that we need more people to do just that.Cause they ain't gonna say it to me. They gonna say it to their friend who they think agreed with them, you know? So. I just think we have a long way to go to the, understand what it means to, to embody and to embody a godlike existence, because it has so much [00:56:00] more to do with love and choice than anything else.De'Vannon: I was like you a very well said girl. I was like you very confused and conflicted about myself because of what the church said. They only gave me peace with learning, how to read the scripture for myself. I went back to the original Greek Hebrew and Aramaic the original, the Bible and discovered it for myself, what I want people to do, because any translation you read king James, a message or whatever, the living Bible, those are all other people's translations.That's not the actual original language. Instead, if you want the true truth, then you got to go back to the source. You got to go back to the original languages of the net and you get. Somebody else's version Anna: that end. You have to I think you gotta find your own practice. So you have to find what that practice looks like for you.Especially when you feel disconnected from church, because church was a practice Sunday, Saturday, Wednesday, however many times a [00:57:00] week, that was a practice. So as if you feel yourself pulling away from that, that you have to figure out what your practice look like. And so today, like my practice looks like me being in my prayer corner in the mornings, but my affirmation books with my journals, with my candle, with my music, with pictures of my family, like for me growing up, like it is being grounded in quiet and close to God in those moments.And that's my, that's my practice today. And I feel closer to God than I ever have. I see signs all the time. I think numerology is real. Like if something profound happens, I'm like, what time is it? I think, I think there's so many ways to connect with God. And when you choose to close yourself off to all the possibilities and all the possibilities of who God is, you will miss her.You going to miss, you're going to miss her. You gonna miss her. That's it.[00:58:00]De'Vannon: Let me see here. So we wanted to talk about the cube. As we begin to wrap it up, I'm going to read your favorite quote by Shirley Chisholm believes you better than she was the first black woman to put in a bid to be a presidential nominated back in the seventies and her eyeglass, a tiny her frame game was on point yes and date match for the gods date.And she said, if they don't give you a seat at the table, bring a folding chair. You go on to say in your it says in your, in your, in your website, you know, we bought our folding chairs and there hasn't been any equity to be found at those tables. It's time for us to build our own tables and our own chairs to this space and model the change we want to see in the world of podcasting.Anna: Yes. All of that. So I love Shirley chill. I love [00:59:00] everything. She's still fought. She she's made a lot of things possible and she had to bring her folding chair. Okay. She had to, they weren't inviting her to no tables. She had to bring a folding chair, but because of the work that she did and in fact that we can stand on the shoulders of so many other incredible, incredible people of history from Ella baker to Angela Davis, to Coretta Scott King, Utah, I mean, Elaine brown, I can go on and on.We can build our own tables. We don't have to wait on anyone to do anything for us. Should apple be more inclusive? Yes. Should Spotify be more inclusive? Yes, they should. But it is not about what they should do because capitalism rules this country. So if it's not, if it doesn't make money, it doesn't make sense in so many ways in that world, but we have an opportunity to do something different.[01:00:00]And I think we have an opportunity to shape, especially the podcasting space, because I feel like it's still very much so a new medium, I believe it's coming into its own after 20 years. And that's why I like new it's like, so it's such a funny thing to say because it's been 20 years, but for so many people, they are just really getting into what it could mean to listen to a podcast.And we can shape what we want this world to see. And I wanted to see more diverse. I want to see more people like me and I wasn't finding them. And so the cube will be that there'll be the one and only curated destination of music and podcasts by BiPAP and QT POC folks. And the music is powered by our radio station.Ethan. Which plays queer music and reports on queer news and high rotation specifically at the intersections of race and sexuality. So there's so many queer artists out here doing their thing, and you don't hear about them. [01:01:00] There's so many of them making good music. I got one of my favorite inspirational artists is a black queer woman who was on Sunday.Best Maya be you know, her, you know, like they deserve a space to be. And then there's like, dope podcasts is like, you whole deserve to be seen who to serve more visibility, more amplification of your work. And I think we can do it. And matter of fact, I know we can do it. We are doing it. And I think we can do it really, really well.So it's going to be an app or in development. My goal. My hope is that we are dropping beta in July and totally out to the public. By September of this year, we've accepted 94 podcasts into the app. We've got a team of folks listening to every single piece of podcast content, because we want the best pod-casters inside of our app.I want the best because there's a lot of poor Lee produced podcasts in the market. People who [01:02:00] sound like they got the iPhone on top of the roof on a fourth bottle of wine. Okay. And you know, that's okay. That's okay. You can do that. You got something to say and you better go say it. Okay. But they don't have to be what's in my ears.It doesn't have to be what's inside this app. I want it to have to be where the best reside and that's what resonates with me. And that's what we're building. De'Vannon: Yeah. I was listening to somebody, his podcasts earlier, who's trying to come on my show and be a guest. And I was like, God, I can't hear what you're saying.You sound muffled. Yes. Out there. So I thank you for your compliments. Just all the sex, drugs and jingles podcast has been accepted into the cube. So our clients, our quality is on point enough for these standards. And so. I'm going to read it a little bit further. So it says the cube is majority owned by a black queer woman and co-founded by three black LGBTQ persons.The cube will be a centralized [01:03:00] destination for discovery of BiPAP and QT pop music and podcasts. Tell us what the BiPAP and QT pox Anna: fans. Absolutely BiPAP is black indigenous people of color. And I choose to say BiPAP because I leave with my blackness. And so I choose to say black indigenous people of color.And then I choose to identify queer trans people of color specifically, even though we inside the BiPAP, we in there. But I think it's important for queer folks to know that I'm talking about that, that this platform is also for them, that I want to be able to center and amplify their work as well. And so that's why I, I include QT POC into the narrative now is my marketing team happy about that?No. Okay. It's a lot of words. It's a lot of acronyms people don't know what the heck I'm talking about, but the people, the people who know know. Right. And so, you know, at the end of the day I'm in this accelerator right now with Google, which is [01:04:00] really dope. It's the Google for startups like founders academy.And one of the mentors was like, I need five words, five words to describe your business. You should be able to describe your business in five words. And I was like, God, dang it. And so I came up with discover, discover the best bi-pod podcast. Right. If I had to describe it in five words, discover the best BiPAP podcast is what I came up with.And so that's what it all means. At the end of the day. It's about discovery. You will, will be able to listen to these podcasts inside of the app. And I hope people would choose to do that as well. There's an opportunity for Uproxx to tip their creators from within the app and that money would go straight to those creators.And I'm excited about that. The moment we get enough users, we'll be able to roll out an ad revenue sharing program, right? So we could put more money into creatives pockets who do want to make money from advertising. And, you know, I think we just continue to build this platform in this [01:05:00] space for folks to discover some of the amazing ways that black, brown, and queer folks of color show up in the world.And I think podcasting is a space that people are choosing to share their experiences with the world the same way you share yours. You know? I think there's a, there's a, I know there's a lot of people doing that and you just can't find them. De'Vannon: Up until now, because now Anna: you got the keyDe'Vannon: cue, baby. Yeah.All right. So just any last words you have for the world, any community, whatever you want to say, you can say, what the fuck you feel? Anna: I love it. I love, I can say whatever the fuck I feel.I feel like we're in. I feel like we're in a moment right now. So I, I feel like we've survived a pandemic and it feels like the world is restarting in some ways. [01:06:00] And I feel like we've got an opportunity here to change the way. We do media and podcasting has a way, has an opportunity to show folks how to do media collaboration.Right? I think we can show what it means to be a community inside of a media industry. I think podcasting has an opportunity to do it differently than what and how things have been done in the past. And so I hope that I, I hope that I can be part of that change. There are so many amazing people in this space doing amazing work, our partners.And my hope is that I can amplify them as well. So when we talk about the black podcast association, when I think about the women of color association, when I think about the

This episode is a continuation of Javascript Jabber 512, so head over there before tuning into this one! In this Part 2, the Jabberers and Dan Shappir discuss THE difference between Svelte vs. virtual DOM and React, the most noticeable pros and cons of React when a DOM's around, and how “partial rendering” is changing the game. Per usual, Steve's dad jokes are 100% funny. “This separation that the VDom creates between the representation of the UI and the actual UI is a really powerful one.” - Dan Shappir In This Episode The BIGGEST difference between Svelte and virtual DOM + React (and when to use one or the other) React's noticeable pros and cons when a DOM gets involved (and how much they'll affect your workflow in 2022) What to watch out for in case you get locked into a vendor (and which vendors to consider) How “partial rendering” is changing the game (and created a whole new model where React is the “middleman”) Sponsors Vultr (https://www.vultr.com/jabber/?promo=100FLY14&utm_source=jsjabber&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=q122) Top End Devs (https://topenddevs.com/) Coaching | Top End Devs (https://topenddevs.com/coaching) Picks Aimee- Financial Literacy as a 2022 goal Aimee- GitHub: eyalev/kubectl-context-prompt (https://github.com/eyalev/kubectl-context-prompt) AJ- iOS 6 Apple Maps with Pins AJ- Classless JavaScript - Dec 16, 2021 - Utah Node.jsClassless JavaScript - Dec 16, 2021 - Utah Node.js (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wz2Ued0Zkc&list=PLrPrSDTfMDlpDem7DdJwzBkzza73OtaCn&index=3) AJ- Best Thunderbolt Display / iMac Monitor Alternative (https://coolaj86.com/articles/best-thunderbolt-display-imac-monitor-alternative/) AJ- Creeds of Craftsmanship (https://github.com/BeyondCodeBootcamp/beyondcodebootcamp/issues/18) AJ- webinstall.dev (https://webinstall.dev/) Dan- Molly White on Twitter: my god it's actually happened (https://twitter.com/molly0xFFF/status/1471581442408812545?s=20) Steve- Twitter: Dad Jokes ( @Dadsaysjokes ) (https://twitter.com/Dadsaysjokes) Steve- Everything I googled in a week as a professional software engineer - localghost (https://localghost.dev/2019/09/everything-i-googled-in-a-week-as-a-professional-software-engineer/) Steve- Detailed Footage Finally Reveals What Triggers Lightning | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/radio-telescope-reveals-how-lightning-begins-20211220/)

This episode is a continuation of Javascript Jabber 512, so head over there before tuning into this one! In this Part 2, the Jabberers and Dan Shappir discuss THE difference between Svelte vs. virtual DOM and React, the most noticeable pros and cons of React when a DOM's around, and how “partial rendering” is changing the game. Per usual, Steve's dad jokes are 100% funny. “This separation that the VDom creates between the representation of the UI and the actual UI is a really powerful one.” - Dan Shappir In This Episode The BIGGEST difference between Svelte and virtual DOM + React (and when to use one or the other) React's noticeable pros and cons when a DOM gets involved (and how much they'll affect your workflow in 2022) What to watch out for in case you get locked into a vendor (and which vendors to consider) How “partial rendering” is changing the game (and created a whole new model where React is the “middleman”) Sponsors Vultr (https://www.vultr.com/jabber/?promo=100FLY14&utm_source=jsjabber&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=q122) Top End Devs (https://topenddevs.com/) Coaching | Top End Devs (https://topenddevs.com/coaching) Picks Aimee- Financial Literacy as a 2022 goal Aimee- GitHub: eyalev/kubectl-context-prompt (https://github.com/eyalev/kubectl-context-prompt) AJ- iOS 6 Apple Maps with Pins AJ- Classless JavaScript - Dec 16, 2021 - Utah Node.jsClassless JavaScript - Dec 16, 2021 - Utah Node.js (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wz2Ued0Zkc&list=PLrPrSDTfMDlpDem7DdJwzBkzza73OtaCn&index=3) AJ- Best Thunderbolt Display / iMac Monitor Alternative (https://coolaj86.com/articles/best-thunderbolt-display-imac-monitor-alternative/) AJ- Creeds of Craftsmanship (https://github.com/BeyondCodeBootcamp/beyondcodebootcamp/issues/18) AJ- webinstall.dev (https://webinstall.dev/) Dan- Molly White on Twitter: my god it's actually happened (https://twitter.com/molly0xFFF/status/1471581442408812545?s=20) Steve- Twitter: Dad Jokes ( @Dadsaysjokes ) (https://twitter.com/Dadsaysjokes) Steve- Everything I googled in a week as a professional software engineer - localghost (https://localghost.dev/2019/09/everything-i-googled-in-a-week-as-a-professional-software-engineer/) Steve- Detailed Footage Finally Reveals What Triggers Lightning | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/radio-telescope-reveals-how-lightning-begins-20211220/)

Dan Shappir takes the lead in explaining React's core design, and how it's enabled by the Virtual DOM (VDOM). The panel discusses what the VDOM is, and how it differs from the actual browser DOM. Also how React leverages the VDOM and its reconciliation mechanism. Understanding these concepts is important in order to properly understand and make the best use of React. Panel AJ O'NealCharles Max WoodDan ShappirSteve Edwards Sponsors Top End DevsCoaching | Top End Devs Picks AJ- Jordan Walke - React to the Future - YouTubeAJ- Tribal LeadershipAJ- The Innovator's SolutionAJ- A Meditation for Healthful SleepAJ- CreedsOfCraftsmanship.comCharles- AntibioticsCharles- Podcast | Top End DevsCharles- Author | Top End DevsDan- Typing the Technical Interview in TypeScriptSteve- Random Phrase Generator

Dan Shappir takes the lead in explaining React's core design, and how it's enabled by the Virtual DOM (VDOM). The panel discusses what the VDOM is, and how it differs from the actual browser DOM. Also how React leverages the VDOM and its reconciliation mechanism. Understanding these concepts is important in order to properly understand and make the best use of React. Panel AJ O'NealCharles Max WoodDan ShappirSteve Edwards Sponsors Top End DevsCoaching | Top End Devs Picks AJ- Jordan Walke - React to the Future - YouTubeAJ- Tribal LeadershipAJ- The Innovator's SolutionAJ- A Meditation for Healthful SleepAJ- CreedsOfCraftsmanship.comCharles- AntibioticsCharles- Podcast | Top End DevsCharles- Author | Top End DevsDan- Typing the Technical Interview in TypeScriptSteve- Random Phrase Generator

This week, Erica and Kenrya talk to VDOM creator Glenise Kinard-Moore about running toward what you're afraid of; learning as you go; the space where intimacy, queerness and disability intersect; using technology to "make the most incredible dick ever" and the future of sex.ResourcesGuest, Glenise Kindard-Moore: Website | Instagram | TwitterBook, "Stiff" (Heavy on the D Book 1) | AmazonAuthor, Stephanie Nicole Norris | Website | Instagram | Twitter | FacebookGlenise's Recommendations:"Hustle Harder, Hustle Smarter" by Curtis Jackson​ | Bookshop | Amazon"Algorithms of Oppression: How Search Engines Reinforce Racism" by Safiya Umoja Noble | Bookshop | AmazonYou can find full show notes, a transcript and links to everything we mentioned on this episode at https://www.theturnonpodcast.com/transcripts/season-5-episode-2_5-the-turn-on-x-glenise-kinard-moore.Connect With The Turn OnWebsite: http://www.theturnonpodcast.comInstagram: @TheTurnOnPodcastTwitter: @TheTurnOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheTurnOnPodcast/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrkR-duu-KegFURl-P8xpYg?view_as=subscriberPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheTurnOn?fan_landing=trueMerch: https://teespring.com/stores/the-turn-on-podcastSupport the show (https://cash.app/$theturnonpodcast)

Se começou só para quando terminar!!! Essa é a ideia de hoje, inclusive esse é o plano que esta em execução. Da uma atenção ai e já tira da gaveta e põe pra funcionar aquele projeto que você ta procrastinando faz uma cota. Chegou a hora de resolver essa parada! #VDOM

This podcast involves two live demos, you can catch up on the YouTube verison here: https://youtu.be/T3K_DrgLPXMLinks Builder.io https://www.builder.io/ PartyTown https://github.com/BuilderIO/partytown Qwik https://github.com/builderio/qwik https://dev.to/mhevery/a-first-look-at-qwik-the-html-first-framework-af Timestamps [00:01:53] Misko Intro  [00:03:50] Builder.io  [00:08:31] PartyTown  [00:11:41] Web Workers vs Service Workers vs Atomics  [00:15:02] PartyTown Demo  [00:21:46] Qwik and Resumable vs Replayable Frameworks  [00:25:40] Qwik vs React - the curse of Closures  [00:27:32] Qwik Demo  [00:42:40] Qwik Compiler Optimizations  [00:53:00] Qwik Questions  [01:00:05] Qwik vs Islands Architecture  [01:02:59] Qwik Event Pooling  [01:05:57] Qwik Conclusions  [01:13:40] Qwik vs Angular Ivy  [01:16:58] TED Talk: Metabolic Health  Transcript [00:00:00] Misko Hevery: So the thing that I've learned from Angular.js days is make it really palatable, right. And solve a problem that nobody else has. Doing yet another framework in this state of our world would be complete suicide cause like it's just a different syntax for the same thing, right? So you need to be solving a problem that the other ones cannot solve. [00:00:22] swyx: The following is my conversation with Misko Hevery, former creator of Angular.js, and now CTO of Builder.io and creator of the Qwik framework. I often find that people with this level of seniority and accomplishment become jaded and imagine themselves above getting their hands dirty in code.  [00:00:39] Misko is the furthest you could possibly get, having left Google and immediately starting work on the biggest problem he sees with the state of web development today, which is that most apps or most sites don't get a hundred out of a hundred on their lighthouse scores. We talked about how Builder.io gives users far more flexibility than any other headless CMS and then we go into the two main ways that Misko wants to change web performance forever: offloading third-party scripts with PartyTown, and then creating a resumable framework with Qwik. Finally, we close off with a Ted Talk from Mishko on metabolic health. Overall I'm incredibly inspired by Misko's mission, where he wants to see a world with lighter websites and lighter bodies. [00:01:23] I hope you enjoy these long form conversations. I'm trying to produce with amazing developers. I don't have a name for it, and I don't know what the plan is. I just know that I really enjoy it. And the feedback has been really great. I'm still figuring out the production process and trying to balance it with my other commitments so any tips are welcome. If you liked this, share it with a friend. If you have requests for other guests, pack them on social media. I'd like to basically make this a space where passionate builders and doers can talk about their craft and where things are going. So here's the interview.  [00:01:53] Misko Intro  [00:01:53] swyx: Basically I try to start cold, [00:01:55] assuming that people already know who you are. Essentially you and I met at Zadar and, I've heard of you for the longest time. I've heard you on a couple of podcasts, but I haven't been in the Angular world. And now you're no longer in the Angular world.  [00:02:11] Misko Hevery: The child has graduated out of college. It's at a time.  [00:02:15] swyx: My favorite discovery about you actually is that you have non-stop dad jokes. Um, we were walking home from like one of the dinners and that you're just like going, oh, that's amazing. [00:02:27] Yes. Yeah.  [00:02:28] Misko Hevery: Yes. Um, most people cringe. I find it that it helps break that. It does and you know, the Dad jokes, so they're completely innocent. So you don't have to worry. I also have a good collection of, uh, computer jokes that only computer programmers get.  [00:02:47] swyx: Okay. Hit me with one.  [00:02:48] Misko Hevery: Um, "How do you measure functions?" [00:02:51] swyx: How do I measure functions? And the boring answer is arity,  [00:02:55] Misko Hevery: and that's a good one! "In Para-Meters." Uh, [00:03:03] swyx: yeah. So for anyone listening like our entire journey back was like that it just like the whole group just groaning. No, that's really good. Okay. Well, it's really good to connect. I'm interested in what you're doing at Builder. You left Google to be CTO of Builder. I assumed that I knew what it was, from the name, it actually is a headless CMS and we can talk about that because I used to work at Netlify and we used to be very good friends with all the headless CMSes. And then we can talk about Qwik. How's that ? [00:03:34] Misko Hevery: I can jump into that. Sorry. My voice is a little raspy. I just got over a regular cold, like the regular cold ceilings  [00:03:42] swyx: conference call, right. I dunno, I, I had it for a week and I only just got over it. [00:03:46] Misko Hevery: It was from the conference. Maybe it wasn't from the other trip I made anyways.  [00:03:50] Builder.io  [00:03:50] Misko Hevery: So let's talk about Builder. So Builder is what we call a headless visual CMS. Uh, I did not know any of that stuff. Would've meant. So I'm going to break it down because I assume that the audience might not know either. [00:04:01] So CMS means it's a content management system. What it means is that non-developers, uh, like typically a marketing department think like Gap. Gap needs to update .... If you're showing stuff on the screen, you can go to Everlane. Everlane is one of our customers. Okay. And so in Everlane case, the marketing department wants to change the content all the time. [00:04:22] Right? They want to change the sales, what things are on the top, what product that they want to feature, et cetera. And, um, this is typically done through a content management system. And the way this is typically done is that it's like a glorified spreadsheet where the engineering department makes a content. [00:04:39] And then it gives essentially key value pairs to the marketing. So the marketing person can change the text, maybe the image, but if the developer didn't think that the marketing person might want to change the color or font size, then there is no hook for it, and the marketing person can't do that. [00:04:54] Certainly marketing person won't be able to add new columns, decide that this is better shown in three columns versus two column mode or show a button or add additional text. None of that stuff is really possible in traditional content management systems. So, this is where the visual part comes in. So Builder.io is fully visual, right? [00:05:13] Drag and drop. You can add it, whatever you want in the page. And the last bit is headless, meaning that it's running on the customer's infrastructure and we don't host the website. If you are, if we are hosted CMS, then it's relatively easy to make a drag and drop editor. [00:05:28] But because we don't host it, it's not on our infrastructure. It's actually quite a head-scratcher. And the way we do this, which I think is pretty cool, is, we have this open source technology called Mitosis, which allows us to give one input to Mitosis and it can produced any output in terms of like, whether you use Angular, React, Vue, Svelte, Solid, it doesn't matter what you use on the backend. [00:05:50] We will generate a component for you. And because we're generating an actual component, it drops into the customer's backend infrastructure, right. And everything just works there. Server-side rendering works. Everything that, that the customer might have on a backend, it just worked because it's a full-on regular component, whether it's Angular, React, or whatever the company might use. [00:06:13] So that's the unique bit that nobody knows how to do. And it's also the bit that attracted me to Builder.io and joining them. And the reason for that is because it is really easy for them to create new technology. So one of the things we're going to talk about later is this thing called Qwik. [00:06:30] What's super easy with Builder.io is that they can easily produce new output. So if you have a customer that already has their content, let's say on react or Angular, and they decided they want to move over to something different, like Qwik, and I will talk about why that might be a reason, it is super easy because with a push of a button, because we generate the content, we can generate the components in a different framework. [00:06:55] swyx: Got it. It's interesting. Have you seen Tailwind?  [00:06:57] Misko Hevery: So Tailwind is more of a CSS framework with my understanding is correct for  [00:07:01] swyx: building, but they had to build something for doing this essentially like having different outputs, uh, we have one central template format that outputs all these different  [00:07:11] Misko Hevery: things.  [00:07:12] So this is what Mitosis would do. Right. But Mitosis can do this across all of them, not just Vue and React, right? Every single one. Like, I don't even know what the list is, but there's a huge list of possible outputs that uh, Mitosis  [00:07:25] swyx: can do. Yeah. You have, Liquid and JSON.  [00:07:30] Misko Hevery: There's more, I mean, this for ones that you see over here. [00:07:33] Yeah. You can see pretty much everything's analyst here. We can import from Figma, given some constraints. Cause it's not a one-to-one thing kind of a thing, but we can import from Figma. So the idea is that people can design their site in Figma provided that they follow a certain set of guidelines. [00:07:49] We can actually import them and to turn it into HTML and then serve it up, whether it's React or whatever. One of the things is that's actually important. For example, for us is Liquid, right? Liquid is a templating system on Shopify. But it's a server side templating system and it cannot be done on the client side. [00:08:05] So if you pre-render on Liquid, how do you get a component to bind to it on the client? Because you would need to have the same component. Right? One of the things we can do is we can present it on a liquid and then produce an, a equivalent react component on the client and they automatically bind to it on a client. [00:08:21] Right. So we can do these kinds of tricks which are normally quite difficult.  [00:08:25] swyx: So you went from building one framework to building all the frameworks.  [00:08:29] Misko Hevery: You can think of it that way.  [00:08:31] PartyTown  [00:08:31] Misko Hevery: But my real thing, the real passion is that I want to get all sides to be 100/100. Yeah. Okay. Uh, on mobile, not on this stop, you know, a lot of people claim on desktop that they can do 100 out of a hundred mobile, that's the bar. [00:08:46] So I want to figure out how to do this. And in order to do that, you really have to get super, super good at rendering these things. And it turns out that if you just make a blank page and blank, white page with nothing on it, and you add a Google tag manager, that alone puts you essentially on the cusp of a hundred, out of a hundred on mobile. [00:09:08] So that alone, that, that act alone, right, he's kind of uses up all your time that you have for rendering. And so the question becomes like, how do we make this as fast as possible? So you can get a hundred out of a hundred on mobile. And it's very little processing time that you get to have and still get to have a hundred. [00:09:25] And so we do two things. One is be introducing a new framework called Qwik. little later. But the other thing we're talking about is introducing this thing called PartyTown okay. And I absolutely love PartyTown. So the person behind PartyTown is Adam Bradley, who you might know him from, making the Ionic framework.  [00:09:43] The guy is absolutely genius. And this is a perfect example of the cleverness of it. All right? So you have, something like a Google tag manager that you want to install on your website. And that thing alone is going to eat up all of your CPU time. So you really would like to put it on a WebWorker, but the problem is you can't because the WebWorker doesn't have DOM API. [00:10:02] It doesn't have a URL bar. It doesn't have just about everything that the Google tag manager wants to do. Right? Google tag manager wants to insert a tracking pixel on your screen. It wants to register a listener to the, to the, uh, URL changes. It wants to set up listeners for your mouse movements, for the clicks, all kinds of stuff. [00:10:21] So running it on a Web Worker becomes a problem. And so the clever bit of geniuses that Adam came up with is that, well, what you really want is you want to proxy the APIs on the main thread into the web worker thread, and you can proxy them through, you know, we have these, these objects called proxies. [00:10:39] The problem is that the code on a Web Worker expects everything to be synchronous. And our communication channel between the main thread and the web worker thread is async. And so the question becomes like, well, how do you solve this particular problem? And it turns out there is a solution to this problem. [00:10:56] And the solution is that you can make a XML HTTP request, which is synchronous, on a Web worker. And then you can intercept that the request using a service worker and then service worker can talk to the main thread. Figure out what exactly did you want to do? So for example, let's say you want to set up a, uh, you want to know the bounding rectangles of some div, the Web Worker thread can make that request, encode that request inside of a XML HTTP request, which goes to the service worker. Service worker calls the main thread, the main thread figures out what the rectangle boxes, and then sends the information back to the web worker thread, which then doesn't notice anything special. As far as it's concerned, it's just executing stuff, synchronously. It's like, you're laughing, right? Because this is hilarious. [00:11:41] Web Workers vs Service Workers vs Atomics  [00:11:41] swyx: So I'm one of those. Okay. You're, you're a little bit ahead of me now. I'm one of those people I've never used web workers or service workers. Right. Um, can we talk a little about, a little bit about the difference and like, are they supposed to be used like that? Like,  [00:11:54] Misko Hevery: uh, so we did these two because they are supported under the most browsers. [00:11:59] There's a different way of making synchronous call and that is through something called Atomics, but Atomics is not available on all browsers yet.  [00:12:07] So web worker is basically just another thread that you have in the browser. [00:12:12] However, that thread doesn't have access to the DOM. So all DOM APIs are kind of gone from there. So you can do a lot of CPU intensive things over there, but, , with limited abilities and this is what PartyTown solves is it proxies all of the API from the main thread into the Web Worker thread. Yeah.  [00:12:32] Now service worker is kind of a safe thing, but the difference is that a service worker can watch HTTP requests go by and it can intercept them. And so think of it as almost like a mini web server in your browser. And so what the service worker does over here is intercepts the request that the web worker makes, because that's the only way we know how to make it blocking call. [00:12:56] swyx: Uh, this is the one that we use for caching and Create React App and stuff like that. [00:13:00] Misko Hevery: Yeah. And then, because we can make a blocking call out of a web worker, the service worker who can use the blockiness of it to make an asynchronous call to the main thread and get all the information that you need.  [00:13:12] swyx: that's pretty smart. Is there any relation to, uh, I know that I think either Jason Miller or Surma did a worker library that was supposed to make it easier to integrate, um, are you aware of, I think  [00:13:25] Misko Hevery: all of these worker rivalries are in heart they're asynchronous, right. And that's what prevents us from using it, right. [00:13:31] Because the code as written assumes full asynchronicity, and that is the bit that's. Different. Right. That's the thing that allows us to take code as is, and just execute it in a, Web Worker. And so by doing that, we can take all of these expensive APIs, whether it's, Google tag manager, Analytics, Service Hub, I think that mispronouncing it, I think, all of these libraries can now go to the main thread and they have zero impact on your Google page speed score. And we actually talked to Chrome and we said like, Hey, we can do this. Do you think this is cheating? Right? Like, do you think that somehow we're just gaming the system and the message was no, no, because this actually makes the experience better for the user, right? [00:14:17] Like the user will come to the website. And because now the main thread is the thing that is running faster and none of this stuff is blocking. You actually have a better experience for the user. The other thing we can do is we can actually throttle how fast the Web Worker will run because when the Web Worker makes a request back to the main thread to say, like, I want the bounding box, or I'm going to set up a tracking pixel or anything like that, we don't have to process it immediately. [00:14:43] We can just say, well, process this at the next idle time. And so the end result is that you get a really high priority for the main thread and then the analytics loads when there's nothing else to do. Which is exactly what you want, right? You want these secondary things to load at a low priority and only be done when there's nothing else to do on the main thread. [00:15:02] PartyTown Demo  [00:15:02] swyx: That's amazing. Okay. All right. We have some demos here if we want to  [00:15:05] Misko Hevery: So if you, let's pick out the simple one, the element, right. And what you see in the console log is this is just a simple test, which performs, uh, synchronous operations. But what you see on the console log is that all of these operations are intercepted by the service worker. [00:15:22] Right. And we can see what particular API on the web worker is trying to do and what the result is, what the return code is, you know, how do we respond and so on and so forth. And so through this,you can kind of observe what your third party code does. By the way. The nice thing about this is also that, because you can observe, you can see is ECP. [00:15:43] If you're a third-party code, because we essentially trust them, right. Fully trust this third party code on your website and who knows what this third party code is doing. Right? So with this, you can see it and you can sandbox it and you can, for example, say like, yeah, I know you're trying to read the cookie, but I'm not going to let you, I'm just going to return an empty cookie because I don't think it's your business to do that. [00:16:04] You know, or any of those things we can do. So you can create a security sandbox around your third party code. That is kind of, as of right now is just implicitly trusted and you can, you have a better control over it.  [00:16:18] swyx: I could filter for it, I'm basically, I need HTTP calls and then I need any cookies. [00:16:23] Right. So,  [00:16:25] Misko Hevery: yeah. So in this case, there will be nothing because this is just showing off element API, but I think you go to previous page  [00:16:33] swyx: Before we go there. is there anything significant and? It says startup 254 milliseconds?  [00:16:38] Misko Hevery: Yeah. So the thing to understand is that it is slower, right? We are making the Google tag manager slower to start up. [00:16:46] Right. So it's definitely not going to be as fast as if it was on a main thread, but it's a, trade-off, we're doing intention. To say like, Hey, we want to give the CPU time to a user so that the user has a better experience rather than eagerly try to load analytics at the very, very beginning and then ruining it for the user. [00:17:04] So while in theory, you could run a react application and the web worker, I wouldn't be recommended because it will be running significantly slower. Okay. Um, because you know, all of these HTP requests, all these calls across the boundary, uh, would slow down. So it is a trade-off.  [00:17:23] swyx: So this is really for the kind of people who are working on, sites that are, have a lot of third-party scripts for,  [00:17:30] Misko Hevery: well, all the sides have third party scripts, right? [00:17:32] Like any kind of a site will have some kind of third-party whether it's analytics ads or just something that keeps track of what kind of exceptions happen on the client and send them back to the server, right. Standard standard things that people have on a website. And instead of the standard things that are making, preventing you from getting a hundred out of a hundred on your score. [00:17:52] Right. Okay, amazing. So this is a way of unloading stuff from the main thread Got  [00:17:58] swyx: What's the API? I haven't seen the actual code that, Party Town. Okay. There's a, there's a adapter thingy and then  [00:18:05] Misko Hevery: you stick it. So we, those are just for react components. There is also vanilla. Just go a little over. [00:18:14] So do   [00:18:16] swyx: you see how we have to prioritize, React above Vanilla? [00:18:20] Misko Hevery: Even lower? This just shows you how you get the PartyTown going. Oh, here we go. Text to pay. We go right there. [00:18:25] You're looking at it right there. So notice what. We asked you to take your third party script, which, you know, if you go to Google on an exit, it tells you like, oh, take this script tag and just drop it inside of your head. Right. Or something like that. So what we do is we say like, do the same exact thing, except change the type to text/partytown. [00:18:43] And that basically tells the browser don't execute it. Instead, PartyTown will come later, read the stuff, ship it over to the web worker and then do it over there.  [00:18:54] swyx: So the only API is you, you just change this, that's it? Yes. Yes.  [00:18:58] Misko Hevery: So you drop a party down script into, uh, into, which is about six kilobytes. And then you go to all of the third-party places and just add, type text/partytown, and that ships them off to the other place. [00:19:10] swyx: So, um, it feels like Chrome should just build this in like script, script type third party. Right. And then just do it.  [00:19:20] Misko Hevery: Yeah. I mean, we're having chats with them. You never know. Maybe if this shows up to be very useful technique. It might be something that Chrome could consider. Well, certainly we need a better way of making synchronous calls from the web worker thread to the main thread, not from the main ones of the web, right. [00:19:37] That's clearly a bad idea, but from the web worker, the main, it would be really nice to have a proper way of doing synchronous calls.  [00:19:44] Atomics  [00:19:44] Misko Hevery: Atomics might be the answer. And so it might be just as simple as getting all the browsers to adopt Atomics because the standard already exists.  [00:19:51] swyx: And I see what, what is this thing I've never heard of it? [00:19:55] Misko Hevery: Atomics is basically a shared memory array buffer between two threads and you can do, atomic operations like locking and incrementing and things of that sort on it. And they can be done in a blocking way. So you can, for example, say, increment this to one and wait until whatever result is three or something like that. [00:20:14] So then you're giving a chance for the other thread to do its work. I  [00:20:18] swyx: mean, this is like, so I'm writing assembly, like,  [00:20:22] Misko Hevery: It's not assembly it's more, you know, semaphore synchronization.  [00:20:26] swyx: Um, okay. Yeah. I see the, I see the locks and stuff, but this is, I can't just like throw in a third party script here. [00:20:33] Misko Hevery: No, no, no. This is something that the PartyTown would use to get synchronous messaging across. Right. Because currently it is kind of a hack that we create an XML HTTP request that is blocking that stuff with a service worker. Like this is craziness, right. So Atomics would definitely be a nicer way to do this. [00:20:51] swyx: I think the goal is definitely very worthwhile that the underlying, how you do it is a bit ugly, but who cares?  [00:20:57] Misko Hevery: Yeah. So the goal is very simple, right? The goal is, for us, we think we can have the best CMS, if we can produce websites that are a hundred out of a hundred on mobile, right? [00:21:07] That's the goal. And if you look at the current state of the world, and if you go to e-commerce websites, it's pretty dismal. Like everybody gets like 20 something on their scores for their sites, right? Even Amazon that has all the resources to spend, will only get 60 out of a hundred on their score. [00:21:24] Even Google website themselves gets it only about 70, out of a hundred. Right? So the state of the world is not very good. And I feel like we are in this cold war in a sense that like everybody's website is equally bad, so nobody cares. Right. But I'm hoping that if you can build a couple of websites that are just amazingly fast, then the world's going to be like, well, now I have to care. [00:21:46] Qwik and Resumable vs Replayable Frameworks  [00:21:46] Misko Hevery: Right? Because now it is different. And so now we're getting into the discussion of Qwik. So what is clicking and why do we need this? So, um, the basic idea behind Qwik, or rather than, let me back up a second of why existing websites are slow.  [00:22:04] And so there's two reasons, right? One is third party scripts, and we just discussed how we can solve this through PartyTown right? I mean, we can move all of their party scripts off.  [00:22:12] However, even if you move all the third party scripts off, your problem is still going to be that, uh, the startup time of your website is going to be pretty slow. And the reason for that is because all websites ship everything twice. First it's a server side rendered HTML, right. [00:22:30] And the page comes up quickly and then it's static. So we need to register listeners. Well, how do we adjust your listeners? Well, we download the whole site again, this time they came to in a form of TypeScript or JavaScript, and then we execute the whole site again, which is by the way, the server just did that. [00:22:49] Right? Yup. Yup. And then we know where to put up listeners and, that causes, you know, this is a perfect graphic for it, right. That causes double loading of everything. So we, we download everything once as HTML and then we load everything again, as JavaScript and then the execute the whole thing again. [00:23:07] So really we're doing everything twice. So what I'm saying is that the current set of framework are replayable, meaning that in order for them to have the bootstrap on the client, they have to replay everything that the server, literally just did, not even a second ago. And so Qwik is different in a sense, because it is resumable. [00:23:27] The big difference with Qwik is that the Qwik can send HTML across, and that's all. That's all it needs to send across. There's a little tiny bootstrapper, which is about one kilobyte and about one millisecond run, which just sets up a global listener and alert for the system. And no other code needs to be downloaded and it can resume exactly where the server left off. [00:23:48] So you need to have some formal way of serializing, the state, getting the state to the client, having a way of deserializing the state. More importantly, there's an importance to be able to render components independently from each other, right? And this is a problem with a lot of frameworks, which is - even if you could delay the startup time of a, uh, of an application, the moment you click on something react has to rerender the whole world right now, not rerender, that might be the wrong term, but it has to re execute its diffing algorithm from the root, right. It has to build up the vDOM. It has to reconcile the vDOM, has to do all these things, starting at the root. [00:24:26] There's no real way to not make it from the root. And so that means that it has to download all the code. And so the big thing about Qwik is, how can we have individual components be woken up individually from each other in any order? Right? I mean, people tend to talk about this in form of micro components or microservices on the client, right? [00:24:46] This is what we want, but at like the ultimate scale, where every component can act independently from everybody else.  [00:24:54] swyx: Yeah. Yeah. I think, we should talk a little bit about that because basically every single component is its own module and separately downloaded. So you're really using the multiplexing or whatever you call it of HTTP/2, right? [00:25:05] Like you can parallelize all those downloading. Right. The main joke I made, because I saw this opportunity and I was like, immediately, like, I know this will be the most controversial part, which is essentially. Uh, the way you serialize is you put everything in HTML, right? Like, like that. [00:25:23] So, so I, I immediately feel that, and it will stir up some controversy, but like also, like, I think the, the interesting, I mean, we should talk a bit about this. Like, obviously this is not handwritten by, by, by people. So people should not be that worried. Um, but also like there are some legitimate concerns, right. [00:25:40] Qwik vs React - the curse of Closures  [00:25:40] swyx: About how I think basically Dan Abramov was, was also the, the, you, you responded to Dan. Um, so Dan said something like this, okay. So it wasn't a direct response to Qwik but Qwik serializes all state in HTML, and that's something that we considered for React Suspense. And he says, basically the question was, have you considered allowing server components to have serializable state using equivalent? [00:26:03] it's been proposed somewhere earlier. This doesn't work generally state is in reaction arbitrary. Payloads would get huge essentially, like, "does it scale?" Is the question. Uh, and he said that this was done before and I went and looked it up and he was like, yeah. And it's actually what we used to do for ASP .NET WebForms. Right.  [00:26:18] Misko Hevery: So if you will look at react the way to React does things. And so I want to pull this up on one of the dev, uh, dogs. I actually talk about it and it might be useful to kind of pull it out. Yeah, the one you are on right now, the answer adoptable fine-grained lazy loaded. The point is that if you have a react component, react components take heavily, closures, right? Closure is the bread and butter of react components and they rely on closures everywhere and it's beautiful. I it's absolutely nice. I really like the mental model. However, it doesn't serialize, right? [00:26:50] You can't take a closure and serialize it into HTML. So what Qwik is trying to do is it's trying to break this up into individual functions. Clearly functions cannot be serialized, but functions can get a URL , a globally known URL, uh, which can load this. So if you scroll a little lower, you will see a, uh, Qwik component , and the difference is, in a Qwik component, we'll have these declaration template, which is which points to a location to where this particular thing can be loaded, if you scroll even further, it talks about how this particular thing can be served up in pieces to the client, if you do this thing. Right. So while it's maybe true that like, oh, it's been tried before and we didn't do it right. [00:27:32] Qwik Demo  [00:27:32] Misko Hevery: Have people really tried to solve every single one of these problems. Right. And there's a huge myriad of them that Qwik is trying to solve and kind of get over. And so maybe I can show it to you as a demo of what I kind of have a to-do app working. So let's let me, let's talk about this. [00:27:50] One of the things. So by the way, the screenshot you have on your Twitter account, that is the old version of Qwik, I've been chatting with you and bunch of other people at the conference, I really got inspired by lots of cool things. And this is a kind of a new version I'm working on, which has many of the issues fixed up and improved. So the thing I'm going to show you is standard todo example, right? I mean, you've seen this millions of times before. [00:28:15] swyx: By the way. I did not know that, uh, I think Addy Osmani made this original to do yes, he did. He did. And it's like the classic example. That was a classic example,  [00:28:24] Misko Hevery: right?  [00:28:27] So remember the goal for us is to serialize everything and send to the client in a form that the client can resume where the silver left off. Right. And then everything can be downloaded in pieces. So there's a lot of things to talk about. So let's start with, with how this works first, and then we can talk about how different pieces actually fit together. [00:28:46] So, you know, first thing you need to do, is, standard, define your interface for an item and define your interface for Todos, which is the collection of items, which contains , number of items completed in the current filter state, and just a list of items like so far, nothing. [00:29:02] Now the special thing comes in that when you declaring a object that you want to serialize, you will run it through this special function called Q object. And it's a marker function and does a couple of things to an object. But you're just basically passing all the stuff in and notice the individual items on Q objects as well. [00:29:20] The reason I did it this way is because I want to serialize individual line items separately, because I know that I'm going to be passing the individual items into separate components individually. Right? So what this basically says to the system is like, there is a top level object. Which is this guy right here and it can have rich state, but remember it has to be JSON serializable. [00:29:43] Therefore it cannot have cyclical things inside of it. It has to be a tree, but inside of it, it can have other objects and those can form cyclical things. So using the combination of those two, you can actually get cyclical graphs going inside of your application. But individually, each Q objects doesn't have that. [00:30:02] So that's a bit of a magic. If I scroll over to the actual running application, what you will notice is these Q objects get serialized like right here. So for example, this one has some ID and you notice it says completed zero and the inside of it has individual items. And notice these items are actually IDs to other locations. [00:30:22] So this ID ending in Zab is actually pointing to this object right here, which has other things. So the whole thing gets serialized. And unlike the demo I showed in Zadar, I have moved all the serialized content at the end, because I don't want to slow down the rendering of the top part. And so if you go, let's go back to our application. [00:30:41] So if you have Todo app, the Todo app is declared in a slightly more verbose way than the way the one would be declared in React. But if we do it this way, then we can serialize the closures, right? The closures don't have the issue with non serialized. By the way, the regular React way of doing things still works here and you can do that is just, they become permanently bound to their parents. [00:31:05] They cannot be lazy loaded. So you can think of it as having two mental models here. You can have lightweight components, which are essentially the same as react components, or you could have Q components, which are slightly more heavyweight, but they get the benefit of having the whole thing, be composable and get lazy a little bit so on and so forth. [00:31:24] So in this particular case, we're saying that there is a Todo app component and the QRL is this magical marker function that tells the system that this content here needs to be lazy. Or rather let me phrase it differently, it says the content here can be lazy loaded. The beauty of Qwik is that it allows you to put a lazy load of boundaries all throughout the system. [00:31:48] And then an optimization phase later decides whether or not we should take advantage of these lazy loaded motor boundaries, right in normal world, the developer has to put dynamic imports and that imports that asynchronous and a pain in the butt to work with, it's not simple. Right? So instead, what Qwik wants to do is say like, no, let's put dynamic imports everywhere, but do it in a way where the developer doesn't have to worry about it and then let the tooling figure out later whether or not we should actually have a dynamic import at this location or not. [00:32:18] Yeah. So even though this file, this there's two applications is in a single file in the tooling. We'll be able to break this file up into lots of small files and then decide in which order the things should be shipped to the client in order to get the best experience. You know, if there's a piece of code that never runs in the client will then put it at the bottom of the, of the chunks, right? [00:32:38] If there's a piece of code that is going to be most likely, you're going to click on it and put it up to the top. So, anyway, so that's kind of a diatribe here with a little bit of an off the rails here, but what this produces is a to-do and it turns the code, right? This QRL function, it says on render, it gets turned into a URL. [00:32:58] And this is what allows the build system to rearrange the code. And so this URL basically says, if you determine that Todo needs to be re re rendered, uh, then you can go download this piece of code. And that will tell you how do we render the Todo, right.  [00:33:14] You know, you're using a header and we're using main, notice we're binding Todos in there. So it looks like a regular binding, but the system has to do more work. So in this particular case, the main has to see if it has Todos, it has to refer to a object. So notice this, this ID here matches the ID here. And this is basically how the system knows that this component here, because if you look over here, the main and foot are, both of them want to know that you do this right? [00:33:42] So both of these components need to have the same object. And so, yeah, exactly. So this main here, as well as the footer, they both have a same ID passed in here. And that's how the system knows like, all right, if I wake you up, I have to make sure to provide you with the same exact ID. Now, not only that there is also this particular thing, which is just a copy of it, but, but in this particular. [00:34:08] What it does is, is the list, all of the objects that could potentially affect the state of this component. And when you go and you modify one of these, state objects, the state, these objects actually keep track of each other and they know which components need to be woken up and affected. So I think there's an example of it somewhere here later, uh, like right here, right in here, it says, Hey, if you, uh, you know, do a key up on the input right here, if I type here over here, something, then the key up runs and then eat, enter runs, you know, add a new item, which is just the function that the function right here, which just pushes an item and new item into the list. [00:34:54] And it sets my current state to text me. And so the system knows that in this political case, in a header, this input right here, Has its own state right here. So let me refresh this again. Um, this header has its own state one eight, whatever, right? Which if you look over here is right here. It's text blank, right? [00:35:16] So we find typing here. I'm going to change the state over here. And then if I set the state to blank, then the system knows, oh, that's object 1 8, 7 1, or whatever. I can run a query. I can run document DOM, querySelectorAll. And I can say, give me, uh, all the queue objects, remember how the selector for this start something like this. [00:35:44] Anyways, there's a way to run a selector that will allow me to whatever, whatever the code is, right? I'll run the selector and this selector will then return this header back to me saying this is the object or rather, this is the component that is, has interests registered into this object, which means. [00:36:04] Because I've selected this thing. I have to find the Q render message and send the Q render message to download its template and we render the object. And so what this allows you to do is have a completely distributed set of components that can be awoken only when a relative, you know, appropriate data is changed rather than having this world of like, well, the state has changed and I don't know who has a reference to what? [00:36:30] So the only thing I can do is we learn that the whole page. Well, that's kind of a, it doesn't help you, right? Cause if you run the, the whole page, then there's the whole, the code has to come in here. Right. So that's not helpful. We want to make sure that we only download the code is actually needed. And so you need to have some mechanism by which, you know, like if I change this piece of code, if I change this object, which component needs to be awoken, right. [00:36:54] And normally like if you have Svelte, Svelte does through subscription, this particular trick, the problem is subscriptions cannot be serialized into the DOM. And so we need a mechanism where the subscription information is actually DOM serializable, right? And this is what the Q object is, or the subscriptions that the individual components have to undo to other things. [00:37:18] And so the other thing I kinda want to point out is that we can then bind a complex object. Like in this case, it's a complicated state that'd be assigned to reduce yet. It turned into a binding that's serializable into the bottom, right? So if I go back here, see I'm jumping around. So we have our footer. [00:37:38] If we have our main, the main is declared over here, you know, standard, uh, JSX in here where you, you want to iterate over a bunch of items. There's a host. Okay. So one of the things we need to do is, um, in react, when you have a component, the component is essentially hostless, or I would say it's life component in the sense that it doesn't have a parent, right. [00:38:02] Uh, and that is wonderful in many, many situations, but sometimes it isn't. The problem we have is that we need to have a component. We need to have a DOM element for each component that can be queried using querySelectorAll so that we can determine if there is a listener on it, or if there is a subscription on a particular object or a single back. [00:38:24] So we have this concept of a host element, and this is one way in which the Qwik Q component is more heavyweight than the react component. You can still use react components if you want, you just don't get the benefits we talked about. And, and so a host element is, is a way of referring to the, the host element and adding an attribute to it. [00:38:47] Right. And saying like, oh, I want the host, I'm going to have a classmate. And so if you go into, let's see Maine, uh, right. So it's supposed to be a classmate, right. So it's the component that, that adamant. So normally, uh, the way you do this normally in react is that the main would be a object that the JSX of the re. [00:39:07] The child react component, right? In this particular case for a variety of reasons, we need to eagerly create this particular thing. So then it's a placeholder for other things to go in. And so we need to do an eagerly and then we need a way of like referring to it. So that's what host is, sorry for the, uh, diatribe anyways, but this is how you create your items, right? [00:39:31] And notice the way you got your items is you just got it from your prompts and you can iterate over them. Right? You can reiterate and run the map and produce individual items. And for each item you will pass. And the key. So if you look at the item here, it's prompt says like, I am going to get an item in here. [00:39:50] And my internal state is whether an I am not, I am an editable state. So these are you, basically your props. And this is the components state in here. And, uh, you know, on mound, we create a component states that we're not, we're not an editable state. And then when the rendering runs, uh, it has both the information about the item as well as about whether or not you are currently editing. [00:40:13] Uh, and if you look at the UL, so here's our, one of our items that got generated, notice that the item that passed in as a ID here, right? So if you go to the script at the bottom and see this one ends in PT six, so we should be able to find, here we go, this is what actually is being passed in to that particular component. [00:40:34] But notice there's a second object. Not only is there a, um, a PT six objects, there's also the secondary option. That's the state of the components. So if the state of the component, we're basically saying here is like, if this object changes or this object changes, I want to know about it and I need to be. [00:40:52] So these objects form a graph, right? The presents, the state of your system. And then the Qwik provides a mechanism to serialize all this information into the DOM in such a way that we know which component is to be woken at what time. So if I start typing in one of the things you're going to see is that on the first interaction, this script that will disappear, because what actually happens is that when you interact with the system, it says like "I need to rehydrate myself". Right? And so it goes to the script tag and, uh, reads it. Let me give it back over here, read it leads to the script tag and figures out. You know, these utilizes all these objects because takes this object, puts them inside of this object to build up the graph and then goes back into the DOM tree and say like, okay, so I need to put this one over here. [00:41:40] I need to put this one over here, this one over here and so on and so forth and puts all these objects back. What are they supposed to be? And now you are, your state is back in a, in these components, but the components aren't present yet. They're not awoken, right? Because none of their, uh, Mount or their render functions actually got called. [00:41:59] And because the functions didn't get called, uh, the code didn't have to get downloaded. So everything is super lazy. Right. So when I go and I hit a key over here, the state gets de-centralized, but the only piece of code that gets downloaded is right. It is, it is right. This thing right here. [00:42:18] Nothing else.  [00:42:19] swyx: Can we show that the network actually, ah,  [00:42:22] Misko Hevery: I would love to, but that part is mocked out right now in the old demo, in the demo that I have, that I did for the conference, that one actually had it properly working. But the feedback was that the D as a developer, there was a lot of things I had to do. [00:42:40] Qwik Compiler Optimizations  [00:42:40] Misko Hevery: And so I wanted to simplify it. So one of the things I did is I figured out a way, or rather I spoke with Adam, uh, the same Adam that did PartyTown. And we figured out how to make it, make the tooling smarter so that the developer doesn't have to do this. So what actually happens is that when you have the QRO over here, what actually happens is you, the, the code automatically gets refactored. [00:43:06] And you will get a new function with factor like this. The system will put an expert on it. And what gets placed in this location is a string that says something like, you know, ABC. Uh, hash you local, right. Or something like that. Right? So by doing this transformation and that piece of code is not working in this transformation, um, the, uh, the system can then, uh, lazy load, just the spirit physical code, nothing else. [00:43:39] But in order to do this transformation, we have to make sure that this code here doesn't have any closures. Right? I cannot, it cannot close over something and keep that variable because if it does the whole thing doesn't work. And so the nice thing is that we can still write it in a natural form, but one of the constraints here here is that you can't close over any variables. [00:44:01] Now there's no variables to close over them. The system is designed in such a way that it doesn't need it. Instead of things like props and state are explicitly passed into you, as well as to the thing of the child, whether they're halo as well. So you don't have a needs to create these kinds of closures, but it is a constraint. [00:44:19] And this is what allows the optimizer to go in and rearrange your code base in a way where we can then determine what things are used. So, so in this particular case, we can, for example, determined that you're likely to go and interact with the input box, but you are very unlikely to actually call this on render, because this is the kind of the Chrome, the shell of the application, and wants to show them the applications loaded you will never, ever interacted. [00:44:46] Right? So what you can do is you can take all these imports and you can sort them not alphabetically. You can sort them by the probability of usage. And then once you haven't sorted by the probability of usage, you can tell the optimizer like, okay, take the first N ones so that I have a chunk that's about 20 kilobytes because we think 20 kilobyte chunks. [00:45:08] And then the system can be like, okay, let me add a whole bunch of them until I have 20 kilobytes. Let me add a nice chunk, then underline about 20 clubs. And I kind of do these chunking all the way on the end. And then the last chunk we'll probably end up with a bunch of stuff that never ever gets loaded. [00:45:22] Right. But the problem is the current way we design applications. You can't do that. You just can't right. And so we have this mentality of like, we have frameworks that have amazing developer experience, but they set up the overall experience down the path of monolithic code base and any kind of, um, lazy loading that the Builder can add after the fact. [00:45:50] It's just like kind of a kloogey workaround. Right? And that's the thing that the Qwik solves it says like, no, no, no, let me help you design an application that has still nice developer experience, but let me structure things in a way so that I can later rearrange things, right? Let me keep you on this guide rails of like, make sure you do it in these ways. [00:46:12] And so everything is in the quickest set up in a way where it keeps you in this guide rails. And the result is, is a piece of code that the optimizer, then the Qwik can rearrange, right? It can go and pull out this function. It can pull out this function. It can pull out all of these functions and turn them into a top level functions that are exportable. [00:46:31] And it can then, um, tree shake the stuff that's not needed and produce chunks that can then be lazy loaded into your application.  [00:46:41] swyx: Like four or five years ago, I think there was some, uh, I think even at the Chrome dev summit or something like that, there was a effort to use Guess.js to basically use Google analytics, to optimize all this, intelligent pre-loading or loading predictions. [00:46:58] Um, is that how I think I missed the part about how, like, how you pull in the statistics for, for optimizing.  [00:47:05] Misko Hevery: So the first thing to talk about, I think is important to understand is that unless you can take your application and break it up into lots and lots and lots of chunks, I do that. Yeah. There's nothing to talk about. [00:47:15] Right? If your application is one big chunk, there's nothing to talk about. You would have to load the chunk end of discussion.  [00:47:21] swyx: Well, so the chunk goes page level, and now you're doing component level, right? So they were, they were saying we split it by page and we can predict the next page. So,  [00:47:30] Misko Hevery: so look at Amazon, right? [00:47:34] Most of this stuff, you will, I mean, you can click on stuff and there's a menu system up here and let's pick a random component here. How do I, let me just go to something. Oh, come on. Just give me a detail view of something every day. Uh, you know, most things here never have to be rendered. Like, for example, there's a component here. [00:47:52] This component never, ever changes. Nothing here. We're render nothing. We'll run it there, here. Uh, yes, these are components and I can click on them and they update the UI over here. But if I'm interacting here, why am I downloading the menu system? Right. And so the point is, if you have a page like this, there is huge number of components in here, but most of them either never update, or in my current path of interaction, I just don't need to update them. Right. If I'm using the menu system, then I don't need to download this thing here. And if I'm interacting with my item then I don't need the menu system, and I'm not, unless they put something out to car, do I have to worry about my shopping cart? [00:48:33] Right? And, and this is the problem is that we currently bundle the whole thing up as one giant monolithic chunk. And yes, there are ways to break this out, but they are not easy. And everybody knows how to do route level break up. But like even on rough level, it's, it's not, it's not fine grain enough. [00:48:53] Right. And so the magic of Qwik is the magic of writing the code in this particular style. Is that for a typical size application, I can break up the application in literally thousands of chunks. Now that's too much. We've gone way too far. I do. These, these chunks are too small and we don't want that. [00:49:13] Right. But when I can break things up, it's easy for me to assemble bigger chunks out of it. But the opposite isn't true, right? If I have a big chunk and I want to break it, well, good luck. You know, no amount of tooling is going to do this. As a matter of fact, the best AI system we have, which is right here in our brains. [00:49:31] Right. Even if you give it to the developer and say, go break this thing up, it's a head-scratcher that takes like weeks of work. Right? And so we are in this upside down world of like build a humongous thing and then have this attitude of like, somehow tooling will solve it. Tooling can solve this problem. [00:49:52] Right. You have to do it the other way around. You have to design a system which breaks into thousands of little chunks. And then the tooling can say, yeah, but that's too much. It's too fine-grained. And let me glue things together and put them together into bigger chunks because. Through experience. We know that an optimal chunk size is about 20 kilobytes, right? [00:50:11] And so now the thing you want is to get a list, the order of which the chunks are used, and that's easy, right? If you're running your application, you can just keep statistics on what, how users interact with your application and that's that the sticks can be sent back to the server. And so once you can get back on a server is just a ordered list of the probability by which you're going to need individual chunks. [00:50:35] And that sort of lists that sorted list is all you need to tell the optimizer, like start at the top of the list, keep adding items until you get to a correct chunk size, they'll start a new job, right. And you keep doing this over and over. Okay. Now the reason I get excited about this, the reason I talk about it is because we completely ignored this problem. [00:50:57] Right. We, we have these amazing frameworks, whether it's Angular, React, Svelte or whatever that allow you to build these amazing sites. But on the end of the day, we all have horrible page speed scores, because we're not thinking about it from the correct way. And the attitude for the longest time has been, the tooling will solve it later. [00:51:18] And my argument here is no, the tooling will not solve it later. If you make a mess of this code base, there's nothing that tooling can do. Yeah.  [00:51:27] swyx: Um, there's so many directions. I could take that in. So first of all, uh, the React term for this is a sufficiently smart compiler, which has been in the docs for like four or five years. [00:51:36] Yeah. That's an exhibit,  [00:51:39] Misko Hevery: but that's my point. Like you cannot make a sufficiently smart compiler [00:51:43] swyx: so is, I mean, is there a compile step for this because of the QRL section.  [00:51:47] Misko Hevery: So right now it's actually running without compilation whatsoever. So one of the things I want to make sure that it runs both in a compiled and uncompiled state, and that's why it comes up with these bogus things like mock modules, et cetera. [00:52:01] Uh, and I think if you go to the network stab, it loads the mock module, and it just re-exports it. I can't really show you, but basically all of these things are kind of just in there. So currently this thing runs as a single monolithic application, but the, the way this thing would work is that as I pointed out everything, every place that you see QRL is a hint to the compiler to go and extract this. [00:52:26] The compiler, literally, we would just think. Ctrl+Shift+R extract here and then gives it a name which will be a header pull on a key up. Right. And then it repeats the same exact thing over here. So Ctrl+Shift+R extract. This is a header onMount. I mistyped it. It's okay. I get it right. And the same thing here, controls have to go Ctrl+Shift+R [00:53:00] Qwik Questions  [00:53:00] swyx: what if I need to do like conditional loading because the competitor doesn't know which branch I need to go down.  [00:53:09] Misko Hevery: So I'll answer the question in a second, did you want to point out, so notice what ends up here? The header is super, super lightweight. There's nothing in here. Cause these things, these two things will get converted into these URLs, right? Yeah. And because of that, this header is permanently bound to the onRender of the to-do app. [00:53:28] Right? If you load a to-do app you're also loading the header and of Main and a footer, but the thing we've done over here is we made this super lightweight, and this is what allows the lazy loading to happen.  [00:53:41] Now you're asking what about other components? Uh, easy. I mean, uh, if you want it to conditionally include the header, you know, standard stuff. [00:53:51] Uh, true. Right now the, the header itself will always be permanently bound into the, on render of the to-do app. Right. However, because we did the trick when we extracted everything out of it had already super, super lightweight. It doesn't contain anything. Right? So the only thing the header really contains if you go in here is the what to do on this URL was the only thing that's in there and also this vendor, right? [00:54:18] So these two URLs are the only thing that is contained inside of the header by itself. Okay. It's only when we decide to render the header, do we go into the header? And we say, okay, we're doing a rendering. So what's your URL. And we look at this URL right here, we download the code. And so now the rendering pipeline has to be a synchronous. [00:54:38] We download the code and then we go and execute the content. And we basically fill in the content the better now in the process, we also realize, oh, we also have to download this piece of code. And this is where statistics would come together. And we basically tell us that this URL and this URL always get downloaded together. [00:54:57] And therefore the optimizer will be smart enough to always put them together in the same file in the same chunk. And, uh, you know, we rented the content. Got it.  [00:55:09] swyx: Okay. So, uh, one small piece of, uh, API feedback slash questions. Uh, yeah, you have, the tag name is optional there. I guess that's a hint to what to store, right. [00:55:18] Misko Hevery: So right now it says to-do right here. If I have a  [00:55:22] swyx: out,   [00:55:24] Misko Hevery: it becomes, uh, just the div. Um, so the system doesn't care. What the thing is, it means eight element. Um, it could be any element they will do just fine. It's easier to kind of on the eyes if it actually says to do right. So that's the only reason for okay. [00:55:42] Got it.  [00:55:43] swyx: the bigger piece is okay. It's like a lot of HTTP requests. Every time I basically, like every time I make a request, every time I interact with the app, I essentially need to do a whole new handshake, a whole new network transfer. There's some baseline weight for that. [00:56:00] Right. Chunking links that helps, um, is there a preload essentially? Is there a less programmatically say like, okay. And by the way, uh, this is important for offline capable apps. So I like, let's say like, I'm going offline. Like it's five things. I know I don't need it right now, but like as an app developer and  [00:56:18] Misko Hevery: I know.  [00:56:19] Yes. So, uh, we can totally do that. Um, we, uh, there is a level worker that will be set up and the web worker will get a list of all the chunks in the woodwork who will try to go and download them and set up the caching for you, uh, in these chunks of time. So that Y when you interact, the only thing that the browser has to do is execute the code now, because these chunks are small, the execution code, if we don't, we're not worried about it, right. [00:56:46] In the case of like on typical framework, that's replaceable. The problem is that the first time you interact with this thing, you have this huge amount of code to download parts and execute. But this isn't the case here because every interaction really only brings in the code that's strictly necessary for this interaction. [00:57:04] So again, we go to like Amazon, right? If I hover over here over these things, and it changes the image on the right side, the only code that gets downloaded and executed is the code for this. Now it's already pre downloaded because their web worker would go and pre fetch it for you. So the only thing that the browser has to do is parse the code and execute the code for the on hover, a callback that goes and updates this components URL. [00:57:27] Right. That's it? No other code needs to be downloaded in a presence. Yep.  [00:57:31] swyx: Got it. anything else that we should cover real Qwik?  [00:57:35] Misko Hevery: I feel like I have talked your ear off and you have been such a good and gracious host. Uh, happy to answer questions. I don't want to overwhelm people, but I am super excited as you can talk. [00:57:46] I'm super excited about this. I think it's a fundamental shift about how you think about a framework. So like, if you look at all the existing frameworks, they're all arguing about, like, I have a better index, I can do this better or that better and et cetera. Right. But fundamentally they're not the same, like essentially the same buckets they can all do about the same thing Qwik. [00:58:05] I think it's a whole new ballgame because the Qwik thing is not about like, oh, I can render a component just like, you know, 50 other frameworks can do as well. The thing that Qwik has is I can do it. I can give you microservices for free. I can give you this micro component architecture for free and I can produce a bundling. I am the sufficiently advanced compiler. Okay. Let's put it this way. This thing that you thought you could have and solve for you, doesn't exist unless you have the current guidelines. Right? So the thing with Qwik is that it is the thing that allows you to have a sufficiently smart compiler to give you this amazing times to interactivity, right? [00:58:48] At the end of the day, is the, there's nothing faster than downloading HTML for your website. I mean, that's the cake, right? Yep. So the reason why Qwik is fast is not because Qwik is clever in the way it runs JavaScript or anything like that. So no Qwik as fast because they don't have to do anything. [00:59:04] Right. When you, when you come to a Qwik website, there is literally nothing to do, right. We're fast because we don't do anything. And that's  [00:59:13] swyx: your baseline is like a one kilobyte bike loader, right?  [00:59:16] Misko Hevery: One come on loader with all the loader, does it sets up a global list? Right. So let me, let me go back. Sorry, let me share one more thing. [00:59:22] So here's your input, right? So if you go to a header, here's the input, right? The reason we know how to do something on it is because we serialize this thing called on:keyup, and there is a URL, right? So when this thing is first executed, nothing is done. Like this content shows up and it said we're done. [00:59:41] And the only reason why we know to do something next is because when I do a key up here, the event, bubbl

What do you know about prosthetic devices in relation to sex? Glenise Kinard-Moore, inventor of the lifestyle product the VDOM, explains how she moved from cyber security to developing the world's first ever prostheic genital device - the VDOM. From concrete dildos to prosthetic penises, Kelly & Glenise discuss the evolution of the sex tech, how representation has progressed in the industry and what they would like to see changed.  The VDOM - https://www.thevdom.com/  @SXNoir   Our Host: @mskelgee Brand Site: HotOctopuss.com   Use code REBEL20 for 20% your Hot Octopuss purchase!

Why do folks continue to debate if the g-spot is a real thing? Does everyone have the potential to enjoy g-spot stimulation? What if someone is new to using sex toys for penetrative sex? And what's the deal with the new VDOM strap-on technology?  We also answer a sex question: I'm jealous of the pleasure my wife gets from her vibrator.  Oh, and we are giving away some FREE sex toys and lube! Tune in to find out how to win! About our guest: Glenise Kinard-Moore is the founder of SkiiMoo Tech and the creator of The VDOM. The VDOM is the first app-connected prosthetic genital device that can go from flaccid to erect at the push of a button. An information security consultant by profession and an ambitious tech creative at night; Glenise is a self-proclaimed tech nerd and she likes to say that her superpower is breaking apart many things to create new things. To learn more visit thevdom.com Other links: Get 10% off + free shipping with code SHAMELESSSEX on Uberlube AKA our favorite lubricant at uberlube.com Get $5 off while mastering the art of pleasure at OMGyes.com/shameless Get turned on with 30 days free of super hot audio erotica at dipseastories.com/shameless Get 2 for 1 of our favorite Willy Willy Hot Sauce at WillyWillyHotSauce.com/shameless Want to try one of our favorite boutique wines? Get 10% off of 3 bottles or more with code SHAMELESSSEX10 or 15% off of 6 bottles or more with come SHAMELESSSEX15 at marginswine.com Get 15% off all of your sex toys with code SHAMELESSSEX at purepleasureshop.com Buy some Shameless Sex swag while supporting a good cause when you visit teepublic.com/stores/shameless-sex-podcast  

Title: Ep6 Ditch the strap w/ VDOM for Thot Leader Podcast Description:  Thot Leader Pod host SX NOIR interviews Glenise Moore, Founder of VDOM #DITCHTHESTRAP   The VDOM | Made by a Woman. Curated for Mankind.https://thevdom.com The VDOM is an app-controlled prosthetic, on pace to revolutionize the s*xtech industry.   In this episode we talk about the future of prosthetics for sx, why being a Black queer founder in s*xtech is vital, and navigating building a sextech startup!   In each episode, sx noir hacking the conversation on sx, love, and tech. SXNoir is holding space for authentic conversations with innovators, influencers, and activists about how we navigate developments in the S*xTech industry. hosted by @sxnoir theme music by @valleylatini   https://thevdom.com/ https://twitter.com/VDOMATL https://www.instagram.com/the.vdom/

WELCOME TO EPISODE 100! The Sex Tech revolution will not be televised! Join me, Taylor Sparks, in this in-depth discussion on the sexual technology revolution being led by The Vdom Founder, Glenise Kinard-Moore! Her Vdom is a blue tooth operated prosthetic penis that was originally designed to enhance sexual relations within the LGBTQ+ community. In addition it has expanded to be life-changing for those with disabilities and erectile dysfunction. Listen in now to this inspiring conversation on innovation, perseverance and the business of sex. Glenise Kinard-Moore Bio: Based in Atlanta. Glenise Kinard-Moore is a wife, a daughter, sister (youngest of three), tech nerd, idealist, and visionary. An information security professional by day and an ambitious tech creative by night. Glenise's superpower is breaking apart things to create new things. She holds an undergraduate degree from Georgia State University, where she attended as a student-athlete. Having worked within the information security world for the last six plus years, Glenise holds several information security and audit industry certifications. Using her advanced tech skills and knowledge Glenise chose to challenge herself by finding a solution to the annoying world of limited and ineffective products. Wanting to design something that could be worn comfortably all day and hands-free as much as naturally possible. Her aim was the wearable that would also be able to go from non-erect to erect via a simple process. She succeeded and The VDOM was born. The VDOM is set to be available to consumers in spring 2021, pre-orders are set to begin this month. Stay up to date with Glenise via: Website: www.thevdom.com Instagram: @the.vdom Facebook: @vdomatl Twitter: @vdomatl Youtube: @vdomatl Stay up to date with Sisters of Sexuality via: Website: www.sistersofsexuality.com Email: sistersofsexuality@gmail.com Instagram: @sistersofsexuality Facebook: @sexysostour Twitter: @sistersofsex REVIEW LIKE SHARE SUBSCRIBE AND SUPPORT --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sistersofsexuality/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/sistersofsexuality/support

Se você é do tipo de passo que tem ideias e até cria mas nunca compartilha porque acha que o seu trabalho nunca está bom o suficiente para que outras pessoas possam ver... se você sente a necessidade aprovação e morre de medo do julgamento alheio. Escuta isso... essa é pra você! #VDOM

Confesso que sinto que estamos encontrando o rumo das coisas por aqui! No episódio de hoje compartilho contigo uma reflexão sobre um tipo de bloqueio que te impede de avançar em várias (para não falar em todas) areas da sua vida. Te convido para sintonizar nessa frequência comigo... Aproveite a viagem!!! #VDOM

Acabei de voltar de viagem, estava num parque chamado Yosemite, na Califórnia, EUA. Depois dessa experiência em meio a natureza, na volta para casa pensei: Como levar essa vibe de aventura para minha realidade pessoal, familiar e profissional? Por enquanto a resposta que eu consegui elaborar foi: Vou botar pressão para chegar no próximo level de criação de conteúdo, com ênfase na transparência, honestidade e sinceridade em ser eu mesmo. A missão é compartilhar a minha realidade da forma que eu conseguir nas redes sociais, sempre compartilhando uma energia de crescimento, evolução e expansão de consciência. Então, hoje vocês encontram mais uma fagulha fractal desse universo de ideias que estavam na minha mente na hora que eu comecei a gravar. Se quiser saber onde isso vai levar... Se conecte e manifeste-se através dos comentários e mensagens! te vejo na próxima publicação em alguma plataforma. #VDOM

Have an idea for a new sex toy design but no clue how to actually produce it? Let this conversation with Glenise Kinard-Moore be your inspiration! A couple of years ago Glenise was an average person with an off-the-cuff idea and today she’s the founder of the lifestyle tech startup, SkiiMoo. Her flagship product, VDOM, isn’t only a pleasure tool, it's also a groundbreaking gender-affirming prosthetic made for the LGBTQ+ community. Glenise walks us through the process of starting with zero background in the pleasure business and what she did every step of the way.  She also talks about disrupting the status quo as a queer Black woman entering an industry that isn’t always as inclusive as it appears.   ____________________________________ --Submit your BDSM & sex advice questions by email to americansexpodcast@gmail.com --To support American Sex podcast, please visit patreon.com/americansex (plus you’ll get all episodes early, secret episodes, bonus stories from guests, on-air shout-outs, stuff in the mail & more!) --Get friendly with us on Twitter at @AmericanSexPod or visit sunnymegatron.com or americansexpodcast.com --Join our mailing list by visiting http://sunnymegatron.com/newsletter               Sunny & Ken, xo! ____________________________________  Episode 159 Links  VDOM website https://thevdom.com/ VDOM Instagram https://www.instagram.com/the.vdom VDOM Twitter https://twitter.com/vdomatl Glenise, creator of VDOM video https://youtu.be/mIaoT5wg5sc Open Deeply Podcast http://opendeeplypodcast.com Sexual Health Magazine Cover Story https://www.sexualhealthmagazine.com/ American Sex Podcast Discord Community http://bit.ly/discordasp American Sex Podcast subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/americansexpodcast American Sex Podcast Patreon http://patreon.com/americansex Episode 159 Sponsor, Affiliate & Giveaway Info Get 10% off everything from http://gvibe.com including the Gbulb Get 20% off http://simpatic.uswith code SUNNY Get 20% off + free shipping at Manscaped.com with code SUNNY http://manscaped.com Hot & Healthy Erotic Humiliation recorded class https://gum.co/humiliationclass Prostate Play for Beginners (recorded class) from Sugar Baltimore https://www.sugartheshop.com/prostate-milking-for-beginners.html Sunny & Ken’s classes on Kink Academy http://bit.ly/kinkacademyelectric & http://bit.ly/kinkacademyhumiliation 10% off American Sex Podcast & Sunny Megatron merch with code SUNNY (t-shirts, mugs, phone cases & more) http://bit.ly/sunnyshirts 15% off your order at Lovehoney when you use this link http://bit.ly/lovehoney15(This link can be a little wonky and does not keep tracking cookies. If the discount does not show up in your cart (or disappears after you shop around on the site), access the site with that link again. Your items will still be in your cart & the discount will appear) 15% off everything at Lelo.com with code SUNNY 10% off everything (with minor restrictions) online from woman-owned, feminist, trans & queer-friendly Early To Bed http://bit.ly/sunnyetbwith code SUNNY 10% off everything from Fun Factory using this link http://bit.ly/sunnyfunfactoryand the code SUNNY at checkout At least 25% off BDSM gear & sex toys with Stockroom’s daily deal (there’s a new product each day!) https://www.stockroom.com/dailydeal/?acc=7c590f01490190db0ed02a5070e20f01 15% off most items from Stockroom http://bit.ly/sunnystockroomwith code SUNNY

Just a little hiking at 5:00AM with Deep Conversations. Ready to fly? Leave your comment and link and don't forget to share with a friend!!! See you soon! #VDOM

In 2019, when developers think of Ionic and particularly the Ionic Framework they might think of Angular and Stencil. What about that VDOM thing called React? That's on the other side of web developers minds...right? Actually…..it's everywhere and now it's part of Ionic. Mike Hartington (@mhartington) joins The Web Platform podcast again. This time Mike discusses Ionic's latest incarnation of its framework using powerful React Components. React developers only need to know React and a few extra bits. Listen in to get the gritty details and some news on upcoming Ionic ventures as well. Visit the website for This Week in Web, resources & more: https://thewebplatformpodcast.com/192-ionic-and-react-are-friends Follow The Web Platform podcast on Twitter for regular updates @TheWebPlatform.

This week we chat with lit-html creator Justin Fagnani. Lit-html is a framework agnostic library that uses new JavaScript features to efficiently render HTML templates. In this episode, you'll learn what lit-html is in detail and why it was created. We compare the lit-html approach to VDOM in terms of performance and also how it compares to JSX structurally. We also discuss some of the upcoming proposals for standardising HTML template instantiation. Visit the website for This Week in Web, resources & more: https://thewebplatformpodcast.com/159-lithtml-html-templates-via-javascript-template-literals   Follow The Web Platform podcast on Twitter for regular updates @TheWebPlatform.