Sacred Skeptics

Are Adam (and Eve) historical people, or mythical figures meant to convey ideas about humanity? People of faith often puzzle over how to reconcile what Genesis says with what they are hearing from various scientific disciplines, feeling forced to choose one or the other or compartmentalize their faith. Mike talks with Pastor Bryan Hurlbutt about this issue and the nuances of the book of Genesis as ancient near east literature set in a context much different than our own.

Are Adam (and Eve) historical people, or mythical figures meant to convey ideas about humanity? People of faith often puzzle over how to reconcile what Genesis says with what they are hearing from various scientific disciplines, feeling forced to choose one or the other or compartmentalize their faith. Mike talks with Pastor Bryan Hurlbutt about this issue and the nuances of the book of Genesis as ancient near east literature set in a context much different than our own.

Is it just smart to be concerned about Muslims in America and immigration issues, or have Christians bought into a media narrative that distorts reality and causes us to fear those that we should be welcoming to? In this episode, Mike Bell interviews Shane Bennett, a man that has been interacting with Muslims all over the world for many years (and is currently involved in predominantly Muslim refugee engagement in Sicily). Mike and Shane discuss the realities of Muslim belief and practice, and some of the hot potato issues related to Islam from a Biblical point of view.

What does a person of faith do when they face an unimaginable tragedy; the loss of a child? In the case of Pastor Stewart White, the reality of the sudden unexpected death of his adult son confronted him with the most serious of questions: will the Christian faith that he has held his whole life sustain he and his family through the darkest time of their lives? Stewart shares insights and reflections drawn from his four-year journey since the passing of his son.

Welcome to Sacred Skeptics, a podcast available on the KSL Newsradio app. Jen and Brandon Hatmaker are the latest evangelical thought leaders to catch public condemnation.  They join the unhappy club of formerly loved evangelicals, along with Rachel Held Evans and Rob Bell.  Mike Frost, the professor, author and Christian blogger has called foul on Evangelical culture for being exclusive and unhealthy. Pastor Rick Henderson, along with guest co-host Rob Lambert respond in part two of this conversation.

Pastor Rick Henderson and guest co-host Rob Lambert delves into the fall of Jen and Brandon Hatmaker, the latest evangelical thought leaders to catch public condemnation. They join the unhappy club of formerly loved evangelicals, along with Rachel Held Evans and Rob Bell. Mike Frost, the professor, author and Christian blogger has called foul on evangelical culture for being exclusive and unhealthy.

Jen and Brandon Hatmaker are the latest evangelical thought leaders to catch public condemnation.  They join the unhappy club of formerly loved evangelicals, along with Rachel Held Evans and Rob Bell.  Mike Frost, the professor, author and Christian blogger has called foul on Evangelical culture for being exclusive and unhealthy. Pastor Rick Henderson, along with guest co-host Rob Lambert respond.

In part two of our video episode, Pastor Rick Henderson welcomes guest co-hosts Becky Bruce and Rob Lambert to talk about the viral hashtag from self-proclaimed Jesus Feminist, Sarah Bessey - #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear. The hashtag erupted on twitter, with observations about women being relegated to service but never leadership, comments about infertility and family planning, and much more. Does it indicate a real cultural or doctrinal problem in churches? Is religion somehow inherently sexist? Does faith accidentally encourage abuse? What does all of that mean for the battle of the sexes? 

Jesus Feminist Sarah Bessey's hashtag, #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear created a twitter firestorm - and it's still catching. After the last episode's discussion about a role for Christian leaders in helping repair bad relationships, Pastor Rick Henderson got an earful on Facebook about domestic violence and women in the church. He welcomes guest co-hosts Becky Bruce and Rob Lambert to help better understand where victims of abuse are coming from and how his words might have been perceived, even if that's not what he meant. 

Jesus Feminist Sarah Bessey's hashtag, #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear created a twitter firestorm. Is there a cultural problem or a doctrinal problem in churches that makes religion inherently sexist? Is it both or something altogether different? Does faith unintentionally encourage abuse? Pastor Rick Henderson admits he was wrong, as he welcomes guest co-hosts Becky Bruce and Rob Lambert to give their perspective.    

Part 2 of 2. After posting comments online in response to Samatha Fields's article in Relevant Magazine, a Christian publication, a storm of shame and general insanity erupted. Added to the spotlight is self-proclaimed Jesus Feminist Sarah Bessey's trending hashtag, #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear. Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson engage the fray on their podcast, Sacred Skeptics, and take seriously the claims that pastors, like John Piper, promote abuse. Is that fair or far fetched?

After posting comments online in response to Samatha Fields's article in Relevant Magazine, a Christian publication, a storm of shame and general insanity erupted. Added to the spotlight is self-proclaimed Jesus Feminist Sarah Bessey's trending hashtag, #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear. Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson engage the fray and take seriously the claims that pastors, like John Piper, promote abuse. Is that fair or far fetched?

After posting comments online in response to Samatha Fields's article in Relevant Magazine, a Christian publication, a storm of shame and general insanity erupted. Added to the spotlight is self-proclaimed Jesus Feminist Sarah Bessey's trending hashtag, #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear. Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson engage the fray and take seriously the claims that pastors, like John Piper, promote abuse. Is that fair or far fetched?

When people of faith teach young women to stay modest and pure, is there a mixed message? In other words, if we are encouraging modesty and purity as a means to avoid the sexualization or objectification of women, are we accidentally sexualizing and objectifying women? Samantha Field makes that argument in Relevant Magazine, a Christian publication. But pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell aren't so sure it's a fair argument and make the case that everyone has some responsibility on the spectrum of respect for others. 

A writer for Relevant Magazine, Samantha Field, argues that modern church messages about modesty and purity may, in fact, help sexualize and objectify women, the opposite of the intended effect. Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss in part two of this three-part conversation. Hint: they don't think Christian viewpoints about modest dress necessarily intend to shame victims. 

Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell begin with the quote of the week, which comes from Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a German religious leader and theologian who became a spy and anti-Nazi dissident before his execution by hanging shortly before the end of World War II in 1945. He said, "Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice." In other words, when Christians choose prejudgment over education and facts, the truth becomes too easy to set aside.

Writing for Relevant Magazine, Samantha Field claims that Christian teaching on purity and modesty cultivates objectification of women and a rape culture. She claims that's why there is sparse outrage over the realities of sexual harassment. Is she on to something or is she out of her mind? Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss.

Presumably the secular culture at large expects the marketplace of ideas to be much more civil without those “narrow minded” Christians around, constantly discussing moral black and white, drawing lines in the sand on sexual ethics for instance. If Christian influence is waning in society, progressives might expect there to be a utopia just around the corner, where each person’s ideas and choices are wildly accepted by everyone, and civil discourse is normative…but is that what we’re seeing in the culture at large?  Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson engage this and more.

The most persuasive people are the ones who make us laugh. Louis C.K.'s new Netflix special has erupted in controversy.  His observations spark laughter over "killing babies."  Pro-choice advocates like it less than the Pro-life advocates.  And yet, the routine is decidedly in favor of abortion.  Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss the the power of comedy and persuasion all while taking a serious look at the tiny revolution behind every joke.  

The claim that Jesus rose from the dead is well documented and undeniable.  But is that claim credible?  Scholars of all stripes agree on 5 bedrock facts.  What explanation best accounts for all of those facts?  It's not enough to submit a theory.  You must support it with evidence.  Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson dive in and evaluate each theory against the evidence.  

Richard Dawkins claims that Jesus rotted in a grave, like everyone else.  And, any claim otherwise is no better attested than a children's fable.  But what about all of New Testament scholars who say differently? What about non-Christian historical documents that address Jesus and the resurrection? Even agnostic, New Testament scholar, Bart Ehrman disagrees with Dawkins. Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss.

You can try to control your children or you can try to influence them, but you can't choose both. What do you when you're afraid that your kids are losing their Christian values or their innocence? Your college age kid announces that he has adopted a political ideology that you despise... Your teenage daughter is pregnant.  Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson discuss how to move forward without blowing up.  

Someone once said, "When you become a parent you quickly realize that for the rest of your life you’re only as happy as your unhappiest kid." Kids will do something that goes against our values, experiment with something illegal or go through a phase that feels like a bomb has been dropped on the family. What do you do when you're afraid they're losing something sacred? What if they drop the atheist bomb? Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss steps to keep the Christian family from blowing up when the bombs do drop.  

Disillusionment.  A crisis of faith.  Uncertainty.  These are common, maybe even healthy experiences in every worldview.  Do these feelings and thoughts mean that it's time to abandon beliefs?  Should we repress doubts?  What is the way forward? How are we supposed to be a good friend when talking with someone who is believer in public, but a secret doubter in private?  Join Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson for round two, as they discuss with special guest Aaron Shafovaloff.

What do you do when see yourself playing a shell game?  On the outside you still wear the mask of a believer, but on the inside—you know you’re really a doubter. There are many different approaches to common experience.  The answers can't be, "Just have more faith."  Or, "fake it till you make it."  Is it possible that the way we face our own beliefs is flawed?  Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss with special guest Aaron Shafovaloff.

From Bethel Church in Redding, to Hillsong in Australia, many in the evangelical world have gone full fanboy over modern day prophets.  If someone is legitimately a mouthpiece for God, how could that ever be verified?  Is this just a matter of faith, feelings or intuition?   How can we know if someone is legitimate?  Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson jump head first into the murky depths of the weird and sensational claims made by religious people.

From social interaction to social media, making a political statement or taking a bold stance on a cultural issue feels like stepping into the lion's den.  And yet, we love it when people dare to engage.  In this episode, pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell respond to both the friendly and critical members of the Sacred Skeptics community who have written emails and commented online.

Baronnelle Stutzman is the florist who was thrust into the national spotlight for refusing to design flowers for a same-sex wedding. Alliance Defending Freedom is taking her case to the Supreme Court. Is this another instance of grumpy, hypocritical Christians? Is there a difference between what the law should allow and what Christians should do? Does this case expose liberal hypocrisy? Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson disentangle perception from fact and give their take on this messy issue.

William Paul Young's uber popular book, The Shack, has sold millions of copies and is now a feature film.  Some are raving fans.  Others resist and even attack it for being heresy -- chock-full of erroneous information about God, Jesus, the Bible etc. Conservative Christian thought leader Albert Mohler says that the book "reveals a disastrous failure of evangelical discernment." Is he right? Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss.

In a world where it seems like the like the people in charge often act like petulant children, we have to ask, "Where are the adults?"  The Art of Adulting is about living with wisdom and taking responsibility.  This may be hardest with navigating disagreement with those who treat us like enemies.  How do we move forward?  What does it mean to be loving when surrounded by hostility. Pastor Rick Henderson and guest co-host, Rob Lambert discuss.

Atheism is a belief system, and we can prove it! Everyone and every view is united by the same BIG questions. We're just divided by the answers. Whether you're a strong atheist or a passive disbeliever--we all are responsible to explain why people have dignity or why rape is wrong. Saying, "everyone knows it" is not only not true.  It's a copout. Join Rick Henderson and guest co-host, Rob Lambert as they discuss.

This is bigger than the controversy surrounding the Texas High School State Wrestling Championships. What is gender and how do we know it? Tucker Carlson debated Zac Petkanas, a senior Democratic National Committee advisor. Petkanas claims gender identity is settled science. Do doctors agree? How could it be caring to help kids live a lifestyle that leads 40% to attempt suicide? Mike Bell and Rick Henderson ask hard questions while sidestepping harsh attitudes.

In this age of protests, condescension has become a virtue. At a town hall for Senator Bill Cassidy, protesters drew notoriety for shouting during a prayer and pledge to the flag.  At the Oscars, celebrities like Academy Award winner Viola Davis adorned themselves with self-praise. Could it be that there is a common trait, below the surface, that causes us to act wrong when we feel most right?  Pastors Rick Henderson and Mike Bell call on the aid of Tim Keller as they discuss.

Have you seen the videos of college professors melting down and throwing tantrums at protests?  If you never get emotional you're not human.  If you can't discipline your emotions you're not an adult.  What is the hope for meaningful engagement if we get mean every time someone asks a question that makes us uncomfortable?  Rick Henderson and Mike Bell help us move into discomfort and see how to turn conflict into connection.

Millions are marching and more are passionately expressing their values.  Among all the disagreement, there is surprising unity: compassion is good, racism is bad, evil should be resisted.  Can we validate these values without a belief in God?  On the Late Show, with Stephen Colbert, Ricky Gervais laughs off the idea God.  He claims science is enough. Mike Bell and Rick Henderson respond.   

Sarah Bessey, author of Jesus Feminist, joins the show with Rick Henderson and Mike Bell.  They tackle feminism, doubt and what it really means to follow Jesus.  She shares her experiences with the U.S. Immigration process.  And, in a surprise twist, maybe the Canadians have something to teach us about common sense compassion.

Sarah Bessey, author of Jesus Feminist, joins the show with Rick Henderson and Mike Bell.  They tackle feminism, doubt and what it really means to follow Jesus.  She shares her experiences with the U.S. Immigration process.  And, in a surprise twist, maybe the Canadians have something to teach us about common sense compassion.    

President Trump sparked controversy with his Executive Order, spinning airports, agencies and the courts into chaos.  How do we open our borders to those seeking help and close our borders to those seeking harm?  It's not just refugees that need to be vetted, it's how we think that needs to be scoured as well.  Mike Bell and Rick Henderson tackle the hard questions and propose possibly radical solutions.  

Is it the media's job to tell us what is right, or is it the media's job tell us what is true?  In the second, of this this two part series, Rick Henderson and Mike Bell continue their discussion with Jasen Lee.  He has been a journalist for over 20 years and is the co-host of Voices of Reason.  The conversation shifts from simply examining the media to exploring the responsibility of media consumers.  

Here's just a hint of the rest of our conversation with Jasen Lee, a journalist and co-host of the podcast Voices of Reason. A reporter for the Deseret News, Jasen takes Pastor Rick Henderson and Mike Bell to task for their views, but also allows the Sacred Skeptics to push back on his opinions about journalism, accountability, credibility and fake news. We'll be posting the rest of the discussion soon! 

President Donald Trump's suspension of immigration and refugee acceptance has sparked concern and outrage from all sides. Is the mainstream media guilty of influencing thought before informing minds? Mike Bell and Rick Henderson interview journalist, Jasen Lee, a reporter at the Deseret News and the co-host of Voices of Reason. Before tackling the news, in this two-part series, they address where to get news and how to tell the difference between information and indoctrination.  

In the last episode, Mike Bell and Rick Henderson reacted with emotional hostility to the question, "Are you a feminist?"  In this episode they take a look at the true history of feminism and react to the perspective of Sarah Bessey, author of Jesus Feminist, a pro-life, Christian who believes the Bible teaches all of us to embrace rights for women as followers of Christ.  Will Mike and Rick change their tune and admit that they were wrong?  

Millions of women marched in Washington and in cities around the U.S., but for what exactly? Abortion? Equal pay? Equality in education? An end to oppression? Senator Claire McCaskill said her stated goal was to get people to go to her website.  Is that all this is -- a power play and fundraiser opportunity? People are angry and the next wave of feminism is rolling in.  After being asked, "Are you a feminist?"  Pastor Rick Henderson and Mike Bell give their raw, gut level reaction to this question. Make sure you listen to both episodes of this two part series.    

Martin Scorsese directed and released Silence, a film starting Liam Neeson, Andrew Garfield and Adam Driver.  More than a stellar movie, it tells the story of brutally persecuted Jesuit priests and Japanese Christians in 17th century Japan.  The film compels the Jesus follower to ask the question, where is God in our pain and suffering?  Why does he allow evil?  Pastors Mike Bell and Rick Henderson respond.  We promise, no spoilers if you haven't seen the movie yet.  

Congressman John Lewis and many other politicians and public figures are boycotting the inauguration of president-elect Donald Trump.  Jennifer Holliday is the latest celebrity to back out.  Are people standing up for their convictions or settling for hypocrisy?  Do liberals and conservatives afford each other the same courtesy?  The price tag of this moral and intellectual could be the loss of freedom of speech.  Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss.

Prominent CNN news personality, Don Lemon, said that acts displayed in the infamous Facebook torture video were not, "evil." Rather, it's just "bad home training." Is he right? Did he misspeak? Does it matter what we call this kind of abuse?  Mike Bell and pastor Rick Henderson discuss this and its possible relationship to white privilege.

Exactly who are the clergy on stage at Donald Trump's presidential inauguration? What does this tell us about them?  What does this tell us about our president elect?  The spiritual adviser with most influence seems to be controversial, prosperity gospel preacher Paula White (giving us an excuse to play our favorite Benny Hinn audio clip). Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss her role, along with Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Rabbi Marvin Hier, Bishop Wayne T. Jackson, Rev. Samuel Rodriguez and Rev. Franklin Graham. 

We love interactions on social media and getting emails from listeners. Pastor Rick Henderson gives a fun and heavy handed response to an anonymous emailer who attacked him, his commentary and even his knowledge of the Bible. Enjoy the rant and his full throated attack of the Prosperity Gospel, Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen.

There is a reason that so many people are misinformed or duped into believing what is not true.  The reason...agnotology.  A term coined by Robert Proctor.  Rick Henderson and Mike Bell discuss the science and business of strategically keeping people confused and ignorant for the purposes of gaining or keeping power.  Don't let your motto be, "Often wrong, never in doubt."

How should we engage people who disagree with us? Can you articulate another person's point of view in such a way that they would say you've done them justice? In this episode, Mike Bell and Rick Henderson tackle emotional fragility and intellectual strength.  Plus, we wade into the "Pizzagate" story (John Podesta's strange emails & Comet Ping Pong Pizza to name a few elements), and the controversy over what constitutes "fake news". 

Trump Evangelism is not what you think. It's not about the President-elect. It's about finding what lightning rod issues people are passionate about and reaching out to them on that level to help them see the truth you're trying to convey. In this episode Rick Henderson & Mike Bell tackle the question, "How do you talk about truth with people who believe everyone has their own truth," such as author, activist and philanthropist Glennon Doyle Melton.  [BONUS MATERIAL] A discussion on political strategist, Donald Trump adviser, and former executive chair at Breitbart , Steve Bannon and the Alt Right. Are the mainstream media fairly describing him as a "white nationalist"?