We Will Get Through This

Thank you for listening this far and meeting some of the amazing people I've had the honour and privilege of talking to. Right now I'm sitting back, imagining what's next. I'd like to take a moment to ask for some feedback and point you in some cool directions for how to engage while we're on a brief break. You're awesome and you're doing great. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I recorded this episode in early July 2020, one year since I stepped away from being CEO of Box of Crayons and handed that responsibility over to today’s guest, Dr. Shannon Minifie. Now, most so-called founder transitions end up on the rocky shores of defeat for two reasons. First, most founders are a little bit like me: kind of neurotic and egotistical and wanting to keep our fingers in the pie. And second, it’s just a really hard thing to hand over an organization that is in many ways an embodiment of you, your values, and the impact you want to have in the world. So who did I trust with this and why is she doing such a brilliant job? In a word, Shannon Minifie is a Zenobia: a powerful, determined, unstoppable woman. Shannon began her career in academia, driven by her desire to be a part of conversations she thinks are important. In 2016, she joined Box of Crayons and started a career in corporate learning and development. Three years later, she became the CEO. Shannon brings to this role over a decade of experience in education, an incredible enthusiasm, and her superpower: a depth and rigor of thinking that investigates everything to its core. In our conversation, we discuss the three kinds of curiosity; the impacts curiosity culture can have on innovation, resilience, engagement, and connection; the relationship between curiosity and world-making; the importance of thinking of curiosity as a state, not a trait, and how that changes how you spark, peak, and cultivate it; and why curiosity is more important now than ever. You can meet Shannon at Boxofcrayons.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

One of the phrases that struck me when I was interviewing Tom Kolditz was when he said that “the US military is very egalitarian, very much in a meritocracy. People are expected to never lean on their rank. The rank gives them a certain set of responsibilities. But it doesn't give them any advantage in the framework that we operate in our military.” Tom rose to the rank of Brigadier General, which should give you some sense of his calibre as a leader. I’ve had the chance to get to know him as he’s gone about scaling and reinventing the way coaching works to support students in university settings, and Iwas excited to talk to him about how to lead in the most difficult of times. Tom Kolditz is the founding Director of the Doerr Institute for New Leaders at Rice University, named top university program by the Association of Leadership Educators. In 2017, he received the Warren Bennis Award for Excellence in Leadership, and has ranked among the top 25 global coaches for three years. The Doerr Institute is his fifth successful leader development start-up. His book In Extremis Leadership: Leading as if Your Life Depended on It has become one of the go-to texts for leading in the COVID-19 crisis. In our conversation we dig into the process for evaluating risk in a snapshot moment; the power of a premortem; how to enroll the most junior person in a room tocreate diversity of thought; and why feelings matter in a time of crisis. You can meet Tom at www.tomkolditz.com and see his institutional work at www.doerr.rice.edu and @doerrinstitute on Twitter. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

When you ask “what makes a leader?” you will hear back, almost immediately, “vision”. Show us the way! Shine the light! “Without vision, the people perish” or so it’s written... But, perhaps not. What if “vision” was overrated ... and that another leadership behaviour was shown to be much more important? Today I’m speaking to Gianpiero “GP” Petriglieri, Associate Professor of Organizational Behaviour at INSEAD, Europe’s preeminent business school. A recent article of his on HBR.org laid down the gauntlet: vision is overrated. Trying “holding” instead. In our conversation GP and I dig into the dangers of vision, and the dangerous story that many visions hold; what he means exactly by “holding” and its two different components; a favourite model of mine, Karpman’s Drama Triangle; and why we shouldn’t think of “holding” as being soft, because of the importance of challenge in this concept. You can meet GP at www.gpetriglieri.com and on Twitter at @gpetriglierito say hello. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I’ve been busy all my life. And quite frankly, I’ve enjoyed it. Teetering on over-commitment ...there’s an exhilaration to that. And gosh, I’m tired sometimes. Part of the self-growth work for me right now is creating space in my life to think, to regenerate, to allow what’s next to emerge. And, frankly, I need help because of my lifetime habit of filling my calendar. That’s why I’m talking to Juliet Funt today. Juliet is the CEO of White Space at Work, an organizational efficiency consultancy to organizations big and small. She is a tough yet loving guide to thousands of white space learners and fans, and a globally recognized warrior in the battle of effectiveness versus reactive busy-ness. She's been working at home full time for 24 years and running 100% virtual teams since the day she launched her organization. When we talked she was seeing out COVID-19 in New Zealand. In our conversation we look at the diminishing cycle of busyness and exhaustion we can all find ourselves in; what she means by “white space” and why it’s so essential at a personal and an organizational level; and why a critical question is “how much is enough?” You can meet Juliet at WhiteSpaceAtWork.com where you can also find a complimentary assessment to help you take the temperature of morale in your team and organization. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Hard as it is to believe, We Will Get Through This is not the only awesome podcast around here. Really, it’s true. Once a season, I’ll be sharing an episode from another podcast I listen to and admire, and there’s no better place to start than with Dave Stachowiak’s Coaching for Leaders. I’ve been a guest four times, and that’s not a scheduling error on my part. It’s me delighting in being in conversation with a smart, prepared and engaged host. I asked Dave which episode he thought we should feature, and his first suggestion was this conversation with Shelley Winner. It’s an absolute beauty. Shelley was caught in a downward spiral, and had ended up in jail. Statistics would suggest she’d be kept down in a vicious circle: you go to jail, you can’t establish yourself once you’re out of jail, you find yourself using old behaviour to survive, you go back to jail ... and so it goes. In this conversation Dave explores with Shelley why prison was the easiest part of her journey; how she took her first step towards working with one of the world’s biggest tech companies; the battle that almost cost her everything; and exactly why organizations should consider hiring past offenders. You can see Shelley’s excellent TEDx talk at http://www.tedxfonddulac.com/speakers/shelley-winner/. You can subscribe to Dave’s podcast at https://coachingforleaders.com/. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free  

Bill Carrier is someone you’ve never heard of. Years ago, as a counterintuitive marketing strategy, he decided that he’d do no marketing. No website. No business card. No social media. You found out about Bill through word of mouth, and word of mouth only. I met him when we both worked with TED Fellows on a retreat, and we had the opportunity to work together. I was struck by his generosity, his big heart, and his wisdom. Bill is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, a former army officer and a Rotary international ambassador scholar. He anchors his coaching work in extensive practical leadership experience and the firm belief that we're all part of something bigger than ourselves. He also contributes to the coaching profession in many ways: he's the co-founder and co-editor of the Future of Coaching magazine and a Founding Fellow of the Institute of Coaching at the Harvard Medical School. In our conversation we start with the importance of character and strategy (and why character matters the most); how to be generous and still give direction and hold people accountable; the difference between empathy and multi-perspective; and how to set yourself up to perform at the highest level. It’s tricky to find Bill online, but the best place to connect is via LinkedIn. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Dave Snowden a few episodes ago. I loved it, although I admit I was a little intimidated by engaging in conversation with someone who has such a sharp mind and who’s thought about the challenges and possibilities of complexity for so long. You might have gotten to the end of that episode and asked ... “and now what?” Let me introduce you to today’s guest. Aaron Dignan is the author of one of the most exciting books that I’ve read in the last number of years. Brave New Work lays down the challenge (and shows the way) to build an organization that is both “people positive” and also “complexity conscious”. In our conversation we talk about the idea of the adjacent possible and why it’s a helpful alternative to the classic “five year plan”; the power of constraints, and how they define systems (and why that matters); why “tension” gets a bad rap; and how to acknowledge and navigate the resistance that this type of change will always engender. You can meet Aaron at www.BraveNewWork.com and learn about his firm The Ready at www.TheReady.com. You can also listen to his podcast, Brave New Work. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I originally invited Kerry, today’s guest, because she’s one of the world’s top financial bloggers. Truly. Her blog is one of the most visited websites in the world. But in setting up the call, I discovered that she had another story she could tell in the context of We Will Get Through This. It’s the experience of surviving one of the most virulent forms of breast cancer. Kerry’s an absolute pro at talking to the media ... but not about cancer. So this is a rare and precious conversation. In it we discuss that moment when you have the worst possible news confirmed; what it is you can actually control, and why that really matters; how to ensure the uncertainty of the future doesn’t steal away the joy of the present; and what Kerry learnt about her own tendency to perfectionism. You can meet Kerry at her blog SquawkFox.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I hope you’ve had that experience of walking into somewhere special; a place that has a resonance, and a capacity, and a potential. But where does that special something, that sacredness, come from? Is it just a trick of architecture? What role do we have in creating sacred space ... and why would we want to? Pamay Bassey is the CLO of Kraft Heinz and a lifelong learner who loves laughter, words, big ideas and serving her community. She is also the Chief Experience Officer of the My 52 Weeks of Worship project, which you can learn more about through her TEDx talk. In our conversation we talk about why we might create sacred spaces and what purpose they serve; the core requirements needed to create sacred space; the role of learning in a modern organization; and how learning and generosity are fundamentally connected. You can meet Pamay on her LinkedIn page and learn more about her year of worship at My52wow.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Think one year ahead. You can likely do that. Think 15 years ahead, let’s say to 2035. You might just about be able to do that. Think 100 years ahead. Almost impossible. And 1000 years? And yet, if we don’t build our capacity to think beyond our timespan, we’re likely doomed. So, how to do that? I’ve been a member of an organization called The Long Now Foundation for ten years. They’re committed to long-term thinking. We’re 10,000 years into civilization. How do we act as stewards for the next 10,000 years? The perfect person to answer this question is Alexander Rose, the Executive Director of The Long Now Foundation. Alexander is an industrial designer who’s been involved in The Long Now Foundation since 01997 (the way they write the year reflects a 10,000 year calendar, btw). Projects include a stunning mechanical 10,000 year clock and a fantastic seminar series and podcast on long-term thinking. In our conversation we discuss: how the combination of mechanisms and myths help generate the conversations we need to survive the next 10,000 years; what it means to think about “a hundred year fix”; how the Foundation decides where to invest its time and money; and why their policy is to not take sides. You can meet Alexander at LongNow.org, and I’d encourage you to consider a membership to support the Foundation’s work. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Cynefin! Say it with me ... Well, you probably can’t. Because it’s a Welsh word and you have to know how it’s said: Ku-NEV-in. My guest today is Dave Snowden, the creator of the Cynefin model. And the reason we’re learning a little bit of Welsh is because this is the model that helps us understand what it means to be operating within a complex system, and how that differs from ordered systems and chaos. It’s a framework that fundamentally changes how you understand the world. In my conversation with Dave we discuss exactly what the Cynefin model is; the importance of boundaries and transition; why Dave’s a skeptic about Emotional Intelligence; and the power of being a generalist. You can meet Dave and the Cynefin community at cognitive-edge.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

How to have a good day. I for one want to know the answer to that. Now! Immediately! Now let me be clear. I don't want bland, predictable “there is no ‘i’ in innovation” type aphorisms.I want insights from science, so the changes I make are based in reality. So let me introduce you to Caroline Webb. She is an executive coach, author and speaker who specializes in showing people how to use insights from behavioural science to improve their professional lives. Her book is called –you got it—How to Have a Good Day, and it's been published in 14 languages and more than 60 countries. She is also a senior advisor to McKinsey where she was previously a partner. In our conversation we discuss: the brain science of engagement; how to calm your brain when it’s feeling anxious; the power of labeling; and the power of connecting to what you’re uniquely good at. You can meet Caroline at HowToHaveAGoodDay.com where there are various resources you can get hold of. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

The power of ritual is profound. It’s woven deep into the rhythms of societies, and its power lies in the marking of a transition, from one state to another. It often means a death of some sort: something needs to pass, before something new can arrive. But few of us are comfortable with death, literal or metaphoric. My guest today is Sarah Kerr,a ritual healing practitioner and death doula whose work supports the living, the dying, and the dead. She facilitates private and public healing rituals, and regularly presents on topics of death midwifery and holistic death care. Sarah has a PhD in Transformative Learning, and a Master’s degree in Environmental Studies. Her doctoral research explored the ways that modern western people can restore and re-create meaningful rituals for the significant transitions of life, and she has been a student of spiritual and shamanic healing modalities since 2000. In our conversation we unpack what a ritual is; explore how we loosen our fixation on the physical and the outer and the visible and the tangible; how grief and grieving differ; and how to understand our life as a spiral rather than a relentless trajectory. You can meet Sarah at www.soulpassages.ca, on Instagram at @soul.passages and on her YouTube channel. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I love the power of thinking about your thinking. This is where sustainable learning truly happens. Not in the telling. Not in the doing. But in the reflection on what’s happening. When you see patterns, you learn to manage them. My guest today is Trevor Ragan, the founder of The Learner Lab, an educational website that helps unpack and share the science of learning and development. Trevor spends his time with thought leaders and researchers from the worlds of psychology and developmental science, consumes their research, connects the dots, and shares it with anyone who will listen. In our conversation we talk about an essential process for successful training; why random can be better than predictable; a counterintuitive approach to managing difficult emotions; and of course, just what it means to train ugly. You can meet Trevor at thelearnerlab.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free

You know me well enough to know that I love a good question. But there are times, particularly in a crisis, when the questions you’re being asked feel impossible to answer. They ask for certainty and reassurance that you’re just not able to give. In that moment, you feel anxiety and uncertainty. What do you say to the unanswerable question? Ron Carucci has a suggestion. He is co-founder and managing partner at Navalent, and works with CEOs and executives pursuing transformational change for their organizations, leaders, and industries. He is the author of 8 books, a relentless contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and a two-time TEDx speaker. In our conversation we talk about the power of knowing you don’t know; when the best answer is sometimes another question; the somatic wisdom of your body; and how grace can be a guiding principle when you don’t know what to do. You can meet Ron at www.navalent.com, read his many articles on HBR, and connect on Twitter at @RonCarucci. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free

You know the marshmallow test, right? Some poor kid put in a room with a single marshmallow in front of them, and a choice: eat it now, or resist the temptation for 5 minutes and get a second marshmallow. Even though the research has been shown to be problematic, it’s illustrative: we so often take short-term, in-the-moment gratification that goes against our long-term interests. Bina Venkataraman is the editorial page editor of The Boston Globe and a fellow at New America. Before joining the Globe, she served as a senior adviser for climate change innovation in the Obama White House, was the director of Global Policy Initiatives at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, and taught in the program on Science, Technology, and Society at MIT. She is the author of a terrific book, The Optimist's Telescope: Thinking Ahead in a Reckless Age. In our conversation we talk about the power of a vividly imagined future; how to deal with vulnerable decision points; lessons learned from professional poker players; and both the flaws and usefulness of the marshmallow test. You can meet Bina at writerbina.com or on Twitter @BinaJV to say hello. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

The odds are you’re not an elite athlete. I know, for sure and without a doubt, that I’m not. When I am playing sports or working out, the thing that’s mostly going through my head is how do I keep myself from quitting, because I almost always have that desire to quit halfway through. The way champions like Bonnie St. John do it, in part, is by building micro-resilience. Bonnie is a former Olympian, and the first African Americanto win medals in a winter Olympic competition, taking home silver and two bronze medals at the 1984 winter Paralympics in Innsbruck, Austria. Today, Bonnie travels the globe as a keynote speaker, Fortune 500 leadership expert, and the bestselling author of seven books. She was a Rhodes Scholar, and served in the White House as a Director of the National Economic Council during the Clinton administration. NBC Nightly News called Bonnie one of the five most inspiring women in America. In our conversation we dive into the principles, strategies and tactics of micro-resilience; explore how someone from San Diego ends up winning skiing medals; look into the power of what happens in between the moments of performance; and how to stay focused on “the next turn”,whatever that may be for you. You can meet Bonnie, watch her TEDx talk and pick up her resilience first aid kit at microresilience.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people headmires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I have three broad categories of books in my life. First, there are the books that come and go pretty quickly. They’re just not very good. There are quite a lot of those. The second bucket are ones I read and think, “This is a pretty good book. There’s a smart idea buried in here.” And then the final category is made up of the types of books I strive to write. Powerful, designed, elegant and stirring. These are the books I keep on my top shelf, that travel with me when I move. Dr. Alexander Osterwalder writes those types of books. He is one of the world's most influential innovation experts, and is an author, entrepreneur and speaker. He was ranked number four in theworld by Thinkers 50, and he shot to fame with his business model canvas, a tool used by millions worldwide. His new book is The Invincible Company, and it’s fantastic. In our conversation we talk about what it means to me to create an ambidextrous company; the role of the CEO in innovation; some examples from his library of different business models; and the power of a gravity creation model. You can meet Alex and access his work at Strategyzer.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

It’s one of the stories that doesn’t quite seem real. Man has a really rough time in his life, starts a blog to cheer himself up--1,000 awesome things--it blows up, the book versions sell millions, the TEDx talk is seen by more millions, and he goes on to write more intriguing books, begin compelling podcasts and be a sought after keynote speaker. My friend Neil Pasricha is this self-same man. He’s a friend of mine, and we’ve spent time walking Toronto, visiting second-hand bookstores, drinking cocktails and talking. Neil’s a great talker. Of his Awesome books, his latest is my favourite: You are Awesome. It blends science and motivation, and I use a number of his suggestions to make my life better. He’s also the host of the number one book podcast in the world, 3 Books, which features guests such as Malcolm Gladwell, David Sedaris, the former sex-worker who wrote the world’s first children’s book featuring a sex-working parent … and me. In our conversation, we look at the magical 40% of life you can control; why the question about half-full or half-empty is the wrong question about the glass; the three books I shared in his podcast; and how and why Neil is starting to think of himself as an activist. You can meet Neil at Neil.blog and listen to his fantastic podcast 3 Books. Episode 48, featuring me, is a particular classic. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

For many years, I did five year plans. I'd sit there and do my best to map out what the next five years were going to be like. I would imagine great things: bold ambitions and brilliant outcomes. The other day as I was sorting through old boxes of paper, I came across some of these plans. What was both hilarious and slightly depressing about them is just how little resemblance those plans bear to what actually happened. Really understanding how to think and implement strategically is difficult. And while there are thousands of people who pontificate about it, only one of them is the #1 strategic thinker in the world. Rita McGrath is that person. She is a popular speaker and author and a long time faculty member at Columbia Business School. Her latest book is Seeing Around Corners: How to spot inflection points in business before they happen. She's been on the Thinkers 50 ranking for global management thinkers for more than a decade, and recently was ranked the number one thinker in strategy. In our conversation we look at the temptations and delusions of certainty; the power of Discovery Driven Planning; how to work back from the future; and why intelligent failure is a critical component of success. You can meet Rita at www.RitaMcGrath.com, or say hello on LinkedIn. She’s on Twitter at @RGMcGrath This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free

We Will Get Through This returns next week with another intriguing series of episodes. We'll be exploring how to see around corners, how to build micro-resilience, how to be invincible and so much more. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

It turns out, somewhat to my surprise, that the body isn’t just a nifty thing that carries around your head. There’s more to it than that. When I want to understand the power of emotions in a way that someone who lives in his head might understand, the person I go to is Dr Robert Biswas-Diener. Robert’s a psychologist, a researcher, and a coach, and he focuses on positive topics, such as happiness, courage, and social support. He’s also the author of a number of wonderful ooks, includes The Upside of your Dark Side and The Courage Quotient.  In our conversation we dig into why the “happy” emotions feel a bit same-ish, and why the “sad” ones feel different; how being disconnected from your feelings makes you less smart; a simple way to settle down when you’re feeling upset; and an essential, timeless insight for managing through difficult times. You can meet Robert at PositiveAcorn.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I like hyphenates. People whose journey has meant that they’ve got a bit of this and a bit of that. People who’ve taken expertise from one world into another. People whose journey to now makes no sense and total sense at the same time.  I’m a bit like that (so confirmation bias, I guess). So to is  Dr. Edy Greenblatt. She is a resilience pioneer, a work/life balance expert, and a coach supervisor. She has a Masters degree in psychology, and a joint PhD in organizational behavior from the Harvard Business School, and Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, where she specialized in dance. Her breakthrough work on personal resource management is the award winning book, Restore Yourself: The Antidote for Professional Exhaustion. And that tool, and that book, has been really an effective framework to help people become more resilient under different circumstances for people worldwide.  In our conversation we dig into what, exactly, a dance anthropologist is; how to find those behaviors that nourish and deplete us; and Michael gets some coaching on dealing with a particularly annoying pile of paperwork. You can meet Edy at www.edygreenblatt.com and on social at @askdredy. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

When I'm thinking to myself, "All right. Who do I need to talk to about money? Who would be a great source of wisdom and calmness and guidance in this time?" I thought I should introduce you to the person who helps me most. I'm going to introduce you to my financial advisor, Rona Birenbaum, who is brilliant. I love her not just for how she manages our money, but for how she calms us down. Rona is the founder of Caring for Clients--the name says a lot right away--a Canadian fee-for-service financial planning firm. Wealth Professional magazine has named Caring for Clients the top independent firm in Canada in 2017, and Rona has been named one of the top 50 advisors in Canada for five years running, an award well-deserved. Rona was recently named a Women of Influence in financial services. We’re not covering specific investment strategies in this podcast, because they’re irrelevant to most of us all the time, and immediately out of date regardless. But what we do get into is the mind-games of investing our money; what it means to plan positively using three different scenarios; just how a stock differs from a bond (so a tiny bit of financial basics for those of us who need it); and the power of self-care. You can meet Rona at www.CaringforClients.com and on Twitter @Caring4Clients. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Some years ago I was wandering up my street, Roncesvalles Avenue, here in Toronto where I live. I wandered into my library and one of the reasons I go into the library is so I can wander the shelves and I can let serendipity happen. A book waves at you and goes, hey, notice me! In this visit, a book leapt off the shelf: The Chairs Are Where the People Go. As a facilitator and somebody who cares about group dynamics, I thought …  well that's interesting, what is this about? So I took it home and I read it, and I came to know its author, Misha Glouberman Misha runs a program “How to Talk to People About Things” and is also a faculty director at the executive education program at the Ivy Business School. He hosts the Trampoline Hall Lectures, which are a quirky Toronto bar room lecture series, which have a fabulous energy and fabulous speakers. It's like TED, if it had a punk spirit. His book, The Chairs Are Where the People Go, was named by The New Yorker magazine as one of its top nonfiction books of that year.  In our conversation we work on how to get out of our own way when we’re having a conversation; the foundational error that derails a good conversation; how curiosity can be a saving grace; why we so often continue to tolerate short-term irritation; and why we’re often not bold enough in owning up to what irritates us most. You can meet Misha at his website www.MishaGlouberman.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

When I moved to Toronto and first dipped my toes in the murky waters of professional coaching, the name that got whispered with awe in the coffee shops and the ICF chapter gatherings was Karen Wright. Karen was already doing “coaching 2.0” before we’d really figured out what “coaching 1.0” was. Smart, provocative, rigorous and values-based. She and I have become friends, which I’m grateful for not just because we can share the occasional glass of wine, but because she’s who I turn to when I want to talk about helping leaders be their best and stay the course.  In our conversation we talk about why your own ambition might get in the way of your own ambition (yes, that’s what I meant to say!); the difference between a purpose-driven leader and a values-based one; and how one of the best tests of a value is when you notice how you’re letting yourself down. You can meet Karen at parachuteexecutivecoaching.com and on LinkedIn. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Can you tell the difference between a good PowerPoint deck and one that’s lousy? Do you have a commitment to slides that are useful, elegant and that tell a story? Do you feel some part of your soul die when you’re subjected to some poorly planned and poorly designed presentation? If so, knowingly or not, you’re likely a disciple of Nancy Duarte. She’s the co-founder and CEO of Duarte, an agency based in Silicon Valley that has been at the forefront of the revolution to improve communication. Along the way they’ve created more than a quarter of a million presentations, and trained thousands of people in their approach. Nancy’s the author of multiple books, all of which sit on my shelves. Her first was Slide:ology, her latest is Data Story. In our conversation we explore the power of the three-act structure, different types of stories and the problems they solve, and how to start and finish any story with grace and aplomb. You can meet Nancy at Duarte.com and follow her on Twitter @NancyDuarte.  This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

"If music be the food of love, play on." That William Shakespeare was onto something. I think he’s going to go places. So too is my guest, Nathan Leigh Jones, a musician and an academic. Let’s start with the facts he's an avid singer-songwriter: he's taken his piano all over the world, including performances at Joe's Pub in New York City, the Sydney Opera House, and even Google's headquarters in Mountain View. But he’s also doing a PhD that exposes the impact of music and lyrics on emotional wellbeing, and that expertise has meant he was the official music curator at the World Happiness Summit, and he shared his insights at the World Congress of Positive Psychology and the Australian Leadership Coaching Conference. In our conversation we talk about the dance between words and music, how you test to discover if lyrics really matter, and how to build the playlist you’re going to need. You can meet Nathan at nlj.co and connect with him on Twitter @nlj_co.  This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

This is the first season of We Will Get Through This, and of course I’m curious … should I keep doing it? Personally, I’m really enjoying the conversations, but I want to make sure that they’re useful for you too.  Will you email and let me know? Tell me what you like and don’t like about the show. Suggest some awesome guests, if someone comes to mind. Inquiries@MBS.works. I’d love to know what’s on your mind. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Ric Leahy, my guest in this episode, was almost responsible for a career choice of mine that would have been disastrous, both for me and my country. Ric and I went to high school together. When we hit our final year, Ric had a plan: “I'm going to win a scholarship and join the navy." And I thought … well, why not. I'm going to join the air force. Ric wins his scholarship and begins a career in the navy. I failed every test they had, didn't begin a career in the air force, and eventually found my own path. During his naval career, Ric served on the staff of the Chief of the Australian Navy, on multiple ships, and was deployed on the ground on operations to Cambodia, Timor-Leste, and Iraq. He was awarded a Queen's Gold Medal, and later in his career the Conspicuous Service Cross. He now leads a number of leadership programs for Australia’s top business schools, has become a “neuro nerd” with an Executive Masters degree on neuroscience and leadership, and is an endurance athlete. In our conversation we talk about where we do our best thinking--and why--and three powerful mindsets: the Sensei, the Scientist and the Socializer. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Now I'm not going to name names but, oh, you need to know I have them in my head right now. I can see them, I can hear them, I can feel my breath getting a little faster, my shoulders going up around my ears, my spine stiffening, my jaw clenching a bit. Equally, and I hope this is true for you as well, there are some people who calm me down. People who make me smile, help me breathe, let my shoulders drop, let my heart open. Eric Klein is one of those people. He is a great calming influence in my life and a deep and precious friend. He is one of the few people on the planet to be both a best-selling leadership author and a lineage holder and teacher in a 3,000 year yoga tradition. He leads Wisdom Heart, a global online meditation community, and serves organizations at the Mindfulteam.com In our conversation we dig into the neuroscience of calmness, the power of making a prenuptial contract with your own brain, where is the most useful place to start to settle yourself down, and (as strange as this might sound) just what it takes to breathe. You can meet Eric at www.Wisdomheart.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

One of the few people in my life who was a great boss to me was Kate Lye. One of the reasons I truly love Kate, and this will sound a bit odd, is her intolerance. Intolerance not of people so much, but of shonky, flabby thinking. She has an ability to stick a finger at the kind of weak thinking that often shows up in the world of leadership and resilience and whatever else and saying, "Well that's not really good enough is it? Somebody's just made that up." That quest for rigor in thinking is something that I try and hold onto myself and I see all the time in Kate.  Kate is a leadership specialist based in London and who works with clients worldwide. For over 20 years, ever since I’ve known her, she has been fascinated by how deep change happens for both individuals and organizations. And her work with CEOs and executive teams is focused on equipping them to hardwire tough changes and be clear-sighted about what or who gets in the way. She is a confidant and a coach to many leaders as they transform their businesses.  In our conversation, we sweep aside the platitudes and empty generalities that plague any discussion about resilience, and uncover the process by which we need to construct our own, personalized, RMO: Resilience Modus Operandi.  You can meet Kate at www.KLIconsult.com or on LinkedIn to say hello. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

The poet Muriel Rukeyser wrote, “The universe is made of stories, not of atoms.” I think, actually, it’s likely made of both … and while I can’t really claim any deep expertise in physics, I do know a little bit about the power of story-telling. A little bit. But not as much as Bernadette Jiwa who amongst other things has teamed up with Seth Godin to create a fantastic workshop on storytelling as part of his Akimbo series. Storytelling is the fabric that creates relationship and community and history. In creating history, it allows you to navigate where you are in the present, and also lay a path out to where you might be going in the future. But it’s plenty easy to tell a story poorly. A boring start, a soggy middle, an end that trails off … we’ve all been on the receiving end of that non-epic. To get beyond that, to save your story, you need a Story Scaffold, which is just what Bernadette shares in this episode. Bernadette helps people, organizations, and communities practice everyday storytelling to build resilience, trust, and connection … all critical skills to help us get through this.  You can meet Bernadette at her website www.thestoryoftelling.com This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I was introduced to the concept of projects and project management through a productivity guy: David Allen. In David’s book Getting Things Done, he says (and I paraphrase), "We get overwhelmed by all the stuff on our plates. Start thinking about almost everything you do as a project, and then you can start managing it as a project." David’s introducing a system, and in tough times, good systems are one of the things that help you live a better life, feel more in control, and get through this. Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez is the world expert on projects and project management. He’s written books, Harvard Business Review articles and is named as one of the Thinkers 50, the so-called “Oscars of management”. He really has been a champion forever in the argument that projects are the lingua franca of the business and personal worlds.  In our conversation we talk about the power of focus; the necessity of courage; why saying No is perhaps the ultimate project management hack; and how to avoid the swamps of project management where so many of us can get bogged down. You can meet Antonio at his website www.antonionietorodriguez.com and on Twitter at @AnietoRodriguez. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Dorie Clark has been described by no less than the New York Times as an expert in self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives. That’s probably all you need to know. But in case you’re asking yourself, “yes, but what else?” know that she's a frequent contributor to Harvard Business Review and is author of a number of books including Stand Out, which was named the number one leadership book of the year by Inc magazine. I’ve known Dorie for quite a while, and part of her quiet genius is the disciplined rigour of her approach to anything she does. When she builds a brand, she does it methodically. When she creates a network, she does it methodically. When she builds her business … you get the idea. If you’re known for something, you’re more likely to be valued; and if you’re valued, you’re more likely to get through whatever’s ahead. In our conversation we talk about why we shouldn’t get tripped up on the whole idea of “a personal brand”; why, if you build it, they won’t come; the necessity of creating content, and how to start even if you don’t know where to start; the power of social proof; and why networking really isn’t as bad as you probably think it is. You can meet Dorie on her website and discover how far along the path you are to becoming a recognized expert at www.DorieClark.com/toolkit.  This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Money is so often a source of anxiety … and that’s during the good times. When times are hard, money can prove to be an even more significant source of concern and stress. That’s why I invited Bruce Sellery to be a guest on the podcast. I met him many years ago when he was a business journalist, and he’s gone on to be the host of the Million Dollar Neighborhood for the Oprah Winfrey Network and a money columnist for CBC Radio. He’s the author of Moolala: Why Smart People do Dumb Things with Their Money, and he also hosts Moolala: Money Made Simple, a weekly radio show on personal finance for SiriusXM. You get a sense of Bruce in the name of his business: it’s pronounced M-oo-la-LA!. He’s about adding some flair and lightness to understanding money, while not diminishing its importance. In our conversation we dig deep into the four reasons why people do dumb things with money (“the C Factors); and then the five steps it takes to build out a robust money plan, in difficult times and in good times. You can meet Bruce at his website www.Moolala.ca and follow him on Twitter at @brucesellery. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Jen Louden is one of my most important friends. We met fifteen years ago (it might even be more), when a mutual friend suggested we be part of a mastermind group together. Honestly, I wasn’t sure it would last. She was the best-selling author of The Women’s Comfort Book, the first mega-selling book on self-care … and what I assumed was likely a whole bunch of touchy-feely, self-indulgent stuff that was not really my thing at all. And yet, here we are. I love her and I admire her work, in particular her new book Why Bother? When times are hard, one reaction is often apathy. There are things to do … but why bother? Jen’s struggled with that, and has written a book that shares in a practical, compassionate and non-trite way how to find your way back to purpose, engagement and, ultimately, yourself.  In our conversation we talk about the myths of self-comfort, and how it’s often hard, not soft; how it’s possible to have self-compassionate grit; why you have to be alert for key moments of transition; the power of Conditions of Enoughness; and how (to everyone’s surprise) Jen ended up being a committed trail runner. You can meet Jen at her website www.Jenniferlouden.com and follow her on Instagram at @JenLouden.  This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

The first time I saw Chester, he was wearing one of his trademark orange shirts and was surrounded by adoring fans at a learning and development conference. It was clear that people loved him. To be honest, I was irritated. I wanted some of that mojo for myself! When I got to know him years later, I discovered that, well, I loved him too … the man combines a big heart and a big brain in a way that’s irresistible. He is the author of a number of books that combined have sold north of 1.5 million copies. On the back of that thought leadership, he has worked for more than two decades helping organizations engage their employees in organizational strategy, vision, and values. In our conversation we dig into the wisdom of his latest book, Leading with Gratitude. We crush the misunderstanding that gratitude is somehow self-indulgence; talk about what it takes to build up the gratitude muscle; wrestle with the “Hand of God” from an atheist’s (mine) point of view; and share the ritual Chester instituted to help his kids embrace the power of gratitude. You can meet Chester at www.LeadingWithGratitudeBook.com and www.TheCultureWorks.com, and follow him on LinkedIn. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Confession: I’m not that great at conflict. For WAY too long my motto has been: Why have conflict when you can passively aggressively avoid it in some way? But the truth is, if we’re going to get through this, we need to manage conflict as best we can. Avoid the unnecessary fights; and fight well in the conflicts we have to have to move forward. That’s why it’s so important to listen to Liane Davey. She is an organizational psychologist who advises leaders on both strategy and team effectiveness. She's distilled her 25 years of experience into her most recent book, The Good Fight: Use Productive Conflict to Get Your Team and Your Organization Back on Track. In our conversation we talk about why we’re biologically wired to avoid conflict (see, it isn’t just me!); the price we pay for accumulating “conflict debt”; the delusion of “picking your battles”; when sweating palms can be helpful; and how to best harness the power of validation and reciprocity. You can meet Liane at www.LianeDavey.com and follow her on LinkedIn. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Lots of people have one piece of the resilience puzzle. Their experience and expertise has given them insight on, say, nutrition or money or self-care or community building. These people are awesome, and they’ll be coming on the show. Few people have an established model about resilience, based on empirical evidence and tested in both the business and academic worlds. Dr Taryn Marie Stejskal is the unicorn. Her pre- and post-doctoral studies focused on the assessment and treatment of neurological injury, and she went on to be the Head of Executive Leadership Development at Nike, and of Global Leadership Development at Cigna. She then founded her own company, Resilience Leadership, where she serves as the Chief Resilience Officer (CRO), and champions the The Five Practices of Particularly Resilient People. In this episode we get into what’s wrong with bouncing back; those five practices of resilient people; the distinction between choice and control; how Kevin Bacon may have shot himself in the foot; why the mindset “everything happens for a reason” drives us both crazy … and just what it means to over-egg a pudding. You can meet Dr Taryn Marie at www.resilience-leadership.com and on Instagram at @drtarynmarie. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

In difficult times, it's easy to despair. But all around us are experts who have proven tactics and strategies to stay strong: for ourselves, for our teams and for our organizations. This is a podcast asking the very best in the world how to stay resilient. This is a podcast that shows us We Will Get Through This