Podcasts about cynefin

D. Firth Griffith is a writer, teacher and land-based practitioner whose work sits at the intersection of ecology, myth and lived relationship with the natural world.He is a father, horse handler, sacred butcher and leather tanner, as well as an award-winning independent author of books on kincentric ecology, mythology, fantasy, horror and language.  His writing has appeared in publications including The Stockman Grassfarmer, Resilience.org and the Permaculture Research Institute. His books have received several honours, including Independent Publisher Book of the Year in Fantasy and the National Indie Excellence Award in Nature Writing.Across his books and countless conversations, Daniel has challenged many of the assumptions that underpin modern agriculture, food systems and even contemporary environmentalism.  His work asks difficult questions: What does it mean to eat with honour?  What has been lost when food becomes commodity rather than a relational, animistic consent-based approach?  This conversation felt particularly alive for me because last year we field harvested one of our own cows within our community's farm.  The experience stirred reverence, grief, gratitude, responsibility and many questions that continue to unfold within me.Daniel's work offers a language for some of those questions, while also opening many more.What follows is a conversation about food, consent, ceremony, kinship, grief, horror, foraging, hope and what it might mean to become fully answerable to the places and beings that feed us.Firth has generously offered a fortnight of a 75% discount code for any and all of his books, which is for the patrons of this podcast and also for our paid subscribers on Substack. Daniel's Award-winning Irish Myth “Rimwalker” series now has three books, all available on his website. And if you want to learn more about kincentric rewilding, he also has that book available (I recommend it).The music in this episode is from Ojhro and Cynefin.Explore Firth's books.Learn more about our work at Rooted Healing.Become a patron.Subscribe on Substack. Get full access to Rooted Healing at rootedhealing.substack.com/subscribe

Donnez-moi votre feedback par SMS (mobile uniquement)!La plupart des dirigeants connaissent le modèle Cynefin. Très peu réalisent que l'outil suppose un diagnostic préalable que le modèle lui-même ne fournit pas : savoir dans quel domaine on se trouve avant de choisir comment agir.Cet épisode revient sur le cadre de Dave Snowden cinq ans après sa première présentation sur Leadershift. Pourquoi les dirigeants bien formés glissent-ils spontanément vers une logique de Compliqué face à des situations Complexes ? Que révèle le renommage du cinquième domaine — "confus" — sur l'état réel de la plupart des organisations ? Et que signifie le cliff, cette zone de bascule entre le domaine Clair et le Chaotique, pour les organisations qui ont tout optimisé ?Trois questions pratiques pour diagnostiquer la nature d'une situation, utilisables en réunion de direction. Accès gratuit à toutes nos ressources: www.coapta.ch/campusAccès aux archives du podcast: www.coapta.ch/podcast© COAPTA SàrlTous les épisodes disponibles sur www.coapta.ch/podcast ou sur votre plateforme préférée (Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts); cherchez "Leadershift" ou "Vincent Musolino"Faites partie de notre communauté sur le Discord officiel COAPTA!

BONUS: Why Your Agile Transformation Keeps Snapping Back — And What Systems Thinking Says About It Natalia Curusi co-authored a book that doesn't tell you what agile should look like — it tells you what actually happens when you try to transform an organization. Friday-night deployments, zombie teams going through the motions, transformations that met a wall of silence. In this episode, we unpack the real lessons from the front lines: how personal values drive the shift to agile, why some teams have all the ceremonies but none of the substance, and what systems thinking reveals about why transformations fail — or snap back. When Your Values Don't Match Your Ways of Working "I felt like there is a mismatch in my values, my moral values and principles, and customer-centric orientation. So when I found out about Agile around 2010, I understood — okay, this is the answer. Now I have the answer how I can map my moral values and principles with software delivery."   Natalia's journey to agile didn't start with a methodology — it started with a gut feeling that something was wrong. Working in large corporations in the early 2000s with fixed-scope contracts, late deployments, and scripts running directly in production, she sensed a disconnect between how work was done and how it should be done. When she moved to a smaller company around 2010 and experienced transparency, collaboration, and the freedom to ask any question without fear, she realized this was the agile mindset — even before she knew the term. The key insight: agile isn't something you adopt, it's something that aligns with values you may already hold. That alignment between personal principles and ways of working is what makes the difference between going through the motions and genuinely transforming how a team operates. Don't Be an Agile Zombie "The first thing I observe — if I go to some of the ceremonies and I see that stand-up becomes like a status meeting, and everybody is reporting to somebody. People are afraid to say some of the things, afraid to escalate risks or assumptions."   One of the strongest chapters in the book is titled "Don't Be an Agile Zombie." Natalia describes teams that have all the boards, all the roles, all the right meeting cadences — but nothing is actually changing. The Scrum Master becomes a secretary. The Product Owner is a proxy afraid to make decisions. The tell-tale signs? Fear and formality. When people report upward instead of collaborating sideways, when risks go unspoken because the environment punishes transparency, that's a watermelon project — green on the outside, red on the inside. Natalia's approach starts with observing the tone and dynamics in ceremonies. If the stand-up feels like a status report and not a coordination meeting, something deeper is broken. And her advice is direct: if an organization is delivering waterfall and happy with the predictability and value, that's fine — just call it what it is. Don't put lipstick on a pig. As Rebecca Homkes discussed on this podcast, the key is to communicate the truth with care, but communicate it nonetheless. Task-Driven vs. Value-Driven: The Real Spectrum "It's not right to say that you are agile if you are not. Just name the things how they are — name the things using the right word."   Rather than the old waterfall-vs-agile binary, a more useful lens is the spectrum between task-driven and value-driven product development. On the task-driven side, somebody creates the list of tasks — requirements, architecture document, design document — and a project manager distributes them. Teams execute but aren't asked to be creative or adaptable. On the value-driven side, what matters is the impact of what teams build. Value is discovered through the dynamic interaction of functionality with customers — it can't be predetermined. Most organizations sit somewhere on this spectrum, and many are slowly moving toward the value-driven end even if they don't call it agile. The practical takeaway: transformation should be tailored to where an organization actually is, not where a framework says it should be. The book argues for a pragmatic, hybrid approach rather than evangelical purity. Systems Thinking: Why Transformations Snap Back "We did a big agile transformation — five years of real transformation. Then the company was bought, merged with a bigger payment provider. And now they are working with SAFe. And that's the end of the story."   In the later part of the book, Natalia and her co-author move into systems thinking — Cynefin, the Iceberg Model, causal loop diagrams. Many agile practitioners stop before they get here because it feels academic. But Natalia argues it's essential, and she illustrates why with a real example: a payment company that went through five years of successful agile transformation using LeSS, only to be acquired by a larger organization that pushed SAFe — and the transformation snapped back. This is the basin of attraction concept: a system has to pass through a point of genuine disruption before it can settle into a new stable state. Without that, it returns to where it was. For practitioners looking to get started with systems thinking, Natalia recommends The Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge and learning to build causal loop diagrams — a practical tool that creates productive conversations about how organizational dynamics actually work. The Post-Agile Era: Beyond Labels "It's like comparing apples and orchestras. You cannot compare agile and AI — they are completely different things. Agile is not enough, but it's also not dead."   Natalia addresses the "Agile is dead" debate head-on. Her argument: comparing agile to AI is a category error. An apple cannot play an orchestra, and an orchestra cannot replace an apple — they serve entirely different purposes. AI can handle a significant portion of day-to-day tasks, but it lacks common sense, empathy, and the ability to read a room. Rather than declaring agile dead, Natalia sees a post-agile era — not one where agile disappears, but where we move beyond the label wars. The trends that matter aren't about whether agile is popular; they're about collaboration, adaptability, and understanding how teams and organizations actually work. We can finally talk about what matters in our industry without being pressured to label it. About Natalia Curusi Natalia Curusi is an Agile Coach at Endava with over 20 years in software delivery, specializing in agile transformations, delivery optimization, and systems thinking. She leads Asia Pacific initiatives driving business agility. She is co-author of From Resistance to Resilience: Practical Agile Lessons for Transformation.   You can link with Natalia Curusi on LinkedIn and visit her website at nataliacurusi.com. You can also join the Agile Continuum community on LinkedIn.

In this seasonal immersion with Isla Macleod, we step into what it means to meet this fertile, abundant, eros-filled threshold where the land has fully awakened, and something in us stirs awake alongside it. Together, we explore Beltane as a living field of relationship, one that invites us into deeper intimacy with our bodies, our creativity and the more-than-human world.These special seasonal episodes move between reflection, story and gentle ritual invitation.At the heart of this episode is a remembering that “we are collaborators and co-creators of life unfolding.”Beltane becomes an invitation to turn towards what enlivens us; to follow the subtle currents of desire, sensation and beauty. To slow down enough to feel the world again, listening to the body as a site of knowing and allowing the inner artist to emerge.As Isla shares, “When we witness beauty, our natural response is to create beauty in return.”There is also something playful and tender in this… stories of dancing with the stag beneath the moon, of gathering blossoms and making ritual with what is already at hand, of allowing life itself to be the ceremony, with a gentle loosening of the idea that ritual needs to be elaborate. What matters is attention, presence and willingness to be in relationship.This is, as with our core intention at Rooted Healing, an invitation into intimacy with Life. Into what Isla names so beautifully as “making love with creation.”You might listen while walking, while sitting with a tree, or simply letting the words move through you. However it meets you, may it soften the edges of separation and remind you of your place within this living, breathing world.With special thanks to the music in this episode, from Mango Lassie, Telling the Bees, The Children's Forest, Mae Bird and Cynefin.Learn more about our courses and gatherings at rootedhealing.orgSupport us on Patreon Get full access to Rooted Healing at rootedhealing.substack.com/subscribe

“What I’m really interested in and fascinated about is that, as AI penetrates and spreads throughout the workplace and gets placed into or integrated into workflows, the first thing that happens is that people in the mix are going to have to learn how to use AI and learn why to use AI when they do.” –Jon Husband About Jon Husband Jon Husband is the Founder and Principal of Wirearchy, a creative research and experimentation laboratory exploring the crossroads of AI and networked workplaces and society. He works as a coach, consultant, speaker and writer, and has co-authored three books, including Wirearchy. Website: wirearchy.com LinkedIn Profile: Jon Husband What you will learn The origins and evolution of wirearchy as a response to traditional organizational hierarchies How AI integration is reshaping knowledge work, workflows, and tacit knowledge within organizations The persistence of Taylorist job evaluation and why traditional work design remains resistant to change The rise of the relational economy and the increasing value of human judgment, trust, and relationships beyond financial exchange New approaches and tools for surfacing and mapping intangible or non-financial value exchanges in organizations The concept of emergence and the need to foster conditions for positive outcomes in complex adaptive systems Challenges and opportunities as organizations shift from rigid, control-based management to adaptive, networked, feedback-driven models Why coaching, facilitation, and skills like listening and allowing for emergence will be critical in navigating AI-augmented workplaces Episode Resources Transcript Ross Dawson: Jon, it is wonderful to have you on the show. Jon: Thank you very much, Ross, it’s good to see you again. Ross Dawson: We’ve known of each other and each other’s work for a very, very long time now from, I suppose, the roots of—yeah, I suppose you can crudely say—the intersection of knowledge and networks. So, as I think many of us who have come from that background, we now are thinking about humans and their relative role to AI. Some people will know of your wirearchy and a lot of your work of the past; others will not. So I’d love to just start off with: what is the concept of wirearchy? And then, how is that morphing or evolving, or are you building on that in how you’re thinking now? We’ll dig in and explore that. Jon: Okay, well, I started paying attention to knowledge work and work in organizations and so on as I changed careers in my early 30s, moving from banking, where I was in management, into management consulting. I ended up working for a large global HR consulting firm that, amongst several others—all the major consulting firms that address organizational issues—have services where they do what’s called job evaluation. What job evaluation does is put a size or a measure or a weight to a job, which then basically places it on the organization chart. I spent quite a few years writing thousands of job descriptions and helping streamline workflows and so on and so forth. So, when the internet came along, I had always been an avid reader, and I suppose a wannabe futurist—a wannabe Ross Dawson, if you will. I was reading all sorts of books back then. Instead of dating, because I was single in my mid-30s, I was spending Friday nights reading books about organizations, like “The Living Company” by Arie de Geus, the Tofflers’ work, “Powershift,” certainly Peter Drucker’s work. There was one day—well, I was reading all of these books, and all of the books were about the coming Information Age. The Information Age had not arrived yet; this was roughly late ’80s, early ’90s. All of a sudden, we hit 1994. I’m sitting in London, and I was just told by my team leader in my consulting firm that I was going to be proposed as one of the next global partners. Three weeks later, I quit my job in the consulting firm because I had begun to feel very uneasy about the work I was doing. If I was made a partner, your job becomes basically selling larger projects to keep the younger consultants employed. I realized that I would be selling methods that I had come to not believe in anymore, and the reason for that is that all of the job evaluation methods sold by all the major consulting companies are all versions of generic Taylorism. They have semantic statements that you pick to figure out a level of a job on a number of different factors. This is one of the things I’ve talked and written quite a bit about in wirearchy: this generic Taylorism is still deeply at the core of most of the work of most organizations. It’s how the work is designed. There has been now, what, 15 or 20 years—how far back does Enterprise 2.0 go?—about collaboration and cooperation and better knowledge management and sharing and transfer of knowledge, and so on and so forth. If you know these semantic statements, which are burned into my brain from this method—the Hay method—you realize that no amount of talking about doing things differently is going to make much difference. It’s not going to change much. And the remuneration—the way people get paid—every single person in every single company, is tied to all of that. It’s tied to your job size, it’s tied to the compensation practice, it’s tied to your performance management, it’s tied to your career plans, if an organization is still doing career planning. Frankly, it has not been touched in 75 years now. Ross Dawson: Used to describe it as a job as a box. Jon: Well, sure, and that’s where that term “think outside the box” comes from. I wrote an article about this at one point in time—oh, I can’t remember the title, so it doesn’t matter—but about the semantic statements essentially becoming semantic straightjackets, because they put limits around what you do. They’re a graded level of permissions, basically, or amounts of influence and authority, and that’s the codified, official organizational chart. So anyway, I was working with this all the time, and I realized if I was going to be made a big-time partner, I’d have to be selling these tools all the time. The internet had come along, so I quit, and I didn’t know what to do after that. I had to move from the UK because I was on a work permit, had to go back to Canada. When I went back to Canada, all the companies I tried to approach to work as an independent consultant didn’t want to engage me, because all of the work I’d been doing in the UK was with really large multinationals, and according to them, too sophisticated for what they were doing in Vancouver. But at the same time, I was still reading all the time—reading Charles Handy’s work, reading Gerard Fairtlough’s work on heterarchy, and so on. I came to believe very strongly that the ongoing sharing of information—which we were starting even 20 years ago to build into constant, incessant flows of information carried via hyperlinks—was going to inevitably begin to affect, I’m going to use the word affect, the traditional top-down power of hierarchy. That comes from the “knowledge is power” by Francis Bacon kind of perspective. Now, that was 25 years ago. What we’ve seen since is, of course, what you know—one umbrella term I could apply to much of what’s going on outside of organizations is the “enshittification” of the web. The same thing applies in a lot of ways, I think, to people doing work, sitting behind screens in organizations. Now, a whole host of things have happened in the past 10 or 15 years: there were armies of developers sitting in office spaces, all of them with their headphones on behind screens coding. There were all sorts of people beginning to understand how to use the internet. There were many failed attempts at effective knowledge management because of the idea that it’s still just good search, find documents, retrieval, without really paying any attention to the connections between people and how they work together, and so on. Ross Dawson: So, the frame there is, I mean, obviously, moving—the wirearchy being an arche of the organization being essentially a network. Obviously, there’s more richness to that as you describe the organization as a network, as opposed to the rigid structures, which are still very much rampant. But fast-forwarding to today, what we’ve overlaid is, whilst the old rigid structure is in place, organizations are effectively a lot more loosened up by Enterprise 2.0 and other types of frames, and essentially more peer communication. Now AI is changing a fundamental role, now being, in many ways, a participant in those workflows, in the creation of value. So where does that take us today, in this humans-plus—essentially wirearchy—pulled into where AI plays a role within those networks? Jon: Well, it’s a fascinating question for which I don’t have an answer. I have some responses, I suppose. The notion of wirearchy came, as you pointed out, out of everybody being wired, everybody being networked—the organization as a network. What I’m really interested in and fascinated about is that, as AI penetrates and spreads throughout the workplace and gets placed into or integrated into workflows, the first thing that happens is that people in the mix are going to have to learn how to use AI and learn why to use AI when they do. Often, it’s very soft at the beginning because it’s reminders, or “did you want to do that,” or “do you want to say that,” and so on. Increasingly, the AI, I think, will have more and more coaching built into it. But what I’m interested in is how, as we learn from the mistakes that are made in integration, and also learn from the successes that are made from integration, is that going to decompose a knowledge worker’s work and eventually capture most of their tacit knowledge and ways of working to reduce the cost of doing that kind of work? Then, on a larger scale, what is the active decomposition of types of work through the influence and integration of AI? How is that going to change the fundamental assumptions about work design? My belief is that the work of Dave Snowden and others with respect to complex adaptive systems is what is going to become—and this is a poorly connected parallel or analogy—but I think something like the Cynefin framework, or a unified approach to complex adaptive systems, will become the Taylorism of the 21st century. In other words, there will come to be forms of patterns and models and actions that help you address certain kinds of conditions, because I think, especially with AI, work and outputs are going to become continuous flows. They are the push and the pull, or the dynamic flow of power and authority that is alluded to in the working definition of wirearchy, the working definition of wirearchy includes knowledge, trust, credibility, and a focus on results, each of which you could write a book about. But as general headings, they are what capture what’s in play, I believe. Ross Dawson: Yeah, no, I think absolutely still relevant today. Now, the point I was going to make was around, in complex adaptive systems, a really central concept is emergence— Jon: Yes. Ross Dawson: —where you are not planning or overlaying or dictating a structure; the structure and the value and how that’s created emerges. And to your point, a lot of the key aspect in that world is, how do you create the conditions for emergence of positive outcomes, as opposed to less positive outcomes? And that’s still, of course, arguably at least as much an art as a science, particularly when you’re looking at complex adaptive systems composed of not just many humans, but also AI, which are stochastic in nature. Jon: Yes, well, it’s a very, very good point. I think it relates to the paper I shared with you a couple of days ago about what the author is calling “weaving the web.” There is an enormous amount of human input and activity, combined with the AI, that doesn’t get measured and is not seen in our currently technocratic, generic Taylorist worldview. That’s not seen, not captured, and it arguably is the kind of human input, work, and knowledge that is going to make this whole new era operate fairly well. That’s this notion of exchanges of value. Once that code is cracked, in terms of how to understand it, surface it, see it, measure it, this is going to lead to more and more of what Nvidia’s Jensen Huang is doing with respect to tokenization. There are some people who say tokenization will become the replacement for money in some cases, or even many cases in another, let’s say, 10 years or so. It’s kind of hard to imagine, but if you come back to the paper that you and I first connected on—Alex Imas’s review of the structural changes to the economy—if you can see the logic of his argument, he says there’s going to be a lot more work, but it’s going to be relational economy work, which ties directly into value exchange and surfacing how that exchange of value operates, say, between two people at work, or a group and a person, or two groups, and so on. This notion of value exchange is going to ground a lot of the conceptual and abstract issues that we talk about when we talk about, you know, why is making effective collaboration so hard? Why is it hard to de-silo an organization? All of those kinds of things are going to, I believe, eventually be washed away in this continuous flow of information. So we have to look for new concepts and new ways to measure what’s being created, the value that’s being created. Ross Dawson: Well, that’s—I mean, this is really interesting. As long as you do not recall, in “Living Networks,” I was actually laying out a quite similar thesis around value creation and network structures, and I did quite a bit of work with Verna Allee on value networks. We ran some workshops together, and we’re essentially—a lot as laid out in the paper you described, and as you’re saying now—a lot of it is saying, how do you look at the non-financial or intangible exchanges of value, which sometimes are apparent and sometimes less apparent? There are all sorts of these structures where, as you say, there is an exchange of value. Sometimes it involves money, oftentimes it doesn’t. To understand the landscape, you do need to understand all of these non-financial structures. But are you suggesting that in this tokenization or other structures, there is a way then of being able to, I suppose, capture some of these non-financial values, which does imply there needs to be some kind of measurement, or at least a mutual agreement or assessment on what that value is? Jon: Yes, the paper that I sent you, and the tool that I’m interested in and think is important, is called VEMapper—Value Exchange Mapper—which has some sophisticated capabilities with respect to AI, mainly by calling the main AI engines into the conversation. There’s a process set out whereby, in a dialogue that’s captured both by recording and by typing, there’s a record of a conversation or a dialogue about value exchange. I’ve carried out a few of them. I recommend trying it, because it’s quite remarkable. You really just tell your story, but it surfaces the tacit knowledge often that you’ve put to work in the creation and exchange of the value. The tool is also quite sophisticated today in terms of its databases and other components. Please forgive me, I’m not a technologist, but it creates a data commons. You, as a participant in a value exchange using this tool, your data, your output, is yours and yours alone. You own it. There’s a notion of data ownership and privacy, and as you carry out more and more of this value exchange, the way it’s captured—and again, I don’t really know about this, but I do know about the structure of the semantic web—it captures triplets: subject, predicate, object, which then makes them readable, makes them discoverable in knowledge graphs and other ways. The tool also has a 3D knowledge graph. If you read that paper, it’s really following the logic, the reasoning, and the innovations that were introduced by Vint Cerf long ago in terms of how knowledge would work, whether there would be things like knowbots, which are agents, and so on. So it stores all of this, and then there’s a process whereby you enter into a dialogue. The AI coach helps you clarify, elaborate, and so on, and then you revisit this process. What this does is it builds and scaffolds trust between people and between groups or whomever is working on a problem. Ross Dawson: Back to a broader frame here. So, what you’re describing—this tool or other tools—has been able to, as you state, capture or make visible value exchange in various guises, with the potential to shift to where we are looking and understanding far beyond the exchanges of financial or overt products and services, and so on. But we’re also relating it to Alex Imas’s thesis that we are moving into a relational economy, where the value—what is scarce—is not AI churning away on reasoning; what is scarce is human relation and judgment. In a whole variety of exchange contexts, including in simple conversations or other knowledge exchange, they’ll be able to apply human expertise to people in situations and organizations. So perhaps, if we just marry those two, what do you see might happen if we move into both a relational economy with the potential to surface more of the nature of how value is exchanged? Jon: Wow, that’s quite a question. I think it’s one of those things where there’s likely to be a very large and durable polarity emerge. I think that the polarity is that there will be some people—probably younger, I’m guessing under 45-ish—that will take to the new environment like ducks to water. They’re already living it in many ways. Their work is much more precarious. They operate in networks that are often networks of support and help, and so on. I think the other end of the polarity is that there will be lots of people who are—I sent you another piece about a week ago called “Artificial Intelligence and Sleeping Humans,” which was about the fact that many of us are, whether we like it or not, not all that much awake when we’re walking around every day, particularly after we’ve been working for 10 or 15 or 20 years, and, you know, kids, busy life, and so on. As AI moves through the workplace, different industries, different natures of work, and brings up issues of relation and so on, I think that relational work will always be AI-aided and supported. I think there’s a significant possibility of something emerging that currently I’m calling AI psychosis. I think that it will disturb a lot of people. They’ll try to build habits or create habits, and they’ll be trained for this with organizations with respect to using AI, but I think it will feel very foreign to them. I think there’s been something—you probably have talked about this before somewhere; I seem to remember reading something from you—but there’s been about 25, 30, 40 years of what I’d call atomization and augmentation in the social fabric. I don’t think that the introduction of AI on a widespread basis throughout work and everything is going to help with that atomization very much. So I think that the longer-term, emergent impacts of AI—I don’t think they’re going to be about productivity and efficiency. They’re going to be up a level or two in terms of the discombobulation and ongoing anxiety that are created. That makes sense? Ross Dawson: Yeah, yes, it does. I think most people can relate to what you’re saying. So, you were just saying before we started the podcast, you’ve, in a way, come back to your work. You’ve been reinvigorated by seeing some interesting shifts in the world. So, what are the next years for you? What do you think we should be thinking about? What should we be focusing on? What should we be creating to enable, as much as possible, all of this to go in a positive direction? Jon: Again, a tough question. It’s so hard because these conditions are all swirling around us. But for me, 10 years—10 years, I’ll be in my early 80s. I don’t like to play golf. I like to swim, so I’ll probably still be swimming. I think we’ll see more and more evidence of the relational economy, with respect to wirearchy and my implication. I’m going, in about a week, to Cambridge to start a creative residency there that involves a number of components. I’ll meet people with the Digital Futures Institute at the University of Bristol, some people at Cambridge. What I’m going to be doing with this creative residency is paying attention to and learning about improvisational facilitation. I think what’s going to happen, what I’m seeing happen everywhere, is shifts in what will be brought to work around the integration of AI. I think the evolution of wirearchy, which implies a different kind of leadership and power, will mean there will just be more and more—how do I want to say it? What I’m noticing is that there’s an enormous amount of talk on LinkedIn and other places where people are wondering about similar things to what we’re talking about. They’re emphasizing the ability to listen, the ability to suspend judgment, the ability to allow the time and the space for emergence—a very, very different mindset than the predict, plan, execute, control, linear types of work. This will be more circular. Many of the elements are already there. We’ve already seen in the last 10 years: develop fast, push versions out fast, fail faster—sort of recursive feedback loops. We’ll all be operating in recursive feedback loops, probably forever more. Ross Dawson: That’s actually very central to my own beliefs. Jon: Yeah, and we just—we have to get used to it. There’s an example I like. It’s not specifically apt for this, but I think you’d probably relate to it. Living in Bondi and in Australia, I presume you’ve gone scuba diving more than once in your life. There’s a kind of dive called a drift dive. Do you know what a drift dive is? Ross Dawson: No. Jon: Okay, I participated in one once, and it was really fascinating. At certain places, there are coral reefs where, I guess because of the topography, the current moves past it quite quickly—more quickly than you can swim against or manage yourself in. So if you go on a drift dive, the dive masters take you out, drop you in somewhere. They know how fast the water is moving, they know how much air you have, they know where you’re going to come up, so they meet you when you come up. But while you’re in the drift dive, what you do is essentially drift along the coral reef, watching the reef vertically because you can’t really swim. I learned about that reading a book a long time ago called “The Horizontal Society” by a Yale Law professor. I can find the title and I’ll email it to you. He described that living in our media-saturated environment—and this was a long time ago—was like living in a drift dive. I think we’re all going to be living in a big drift dive for the next forever—well, certainly for the rest of my life. It’s really interesting to think about things in that way. It relates particularly poignantly to my quitting my job as a management consultant, where I learned all of the method with the generic Taylorism. Because if you go back 20 years ago, the assumption—I know you’ve done a lot of strategic planning with companies and organizations—the assumption was that the next thing, the next time, and we get the strategy right, this thing is going to be stable. This is how it’s going to operate. Ross Dawson: Yes, it’s a common fallacy. Jon: Yeah, exactly. That wasn’t the case 20 years ago, and I started realizing it, and it’s much less the case today than it was 10 years ago. So, you know, I guess it’s like, get used to it. Ross Dawson: Yeah. So where can people go to find out more about your work and what you’re doing, Jon? Jon: At the moment, just LinkedIn. I’m going to put up a new site. I keep—another interesting, fascinating little story. I’ll do it quickly. I was over in England about a month ago, and there’s a guy, a friend of mine, whose claim to fame is, I think he built the first website in the UK in 1994. His name is Felix Velarde, and he’s run a number of agencies and is on the board of directors of a number of digital agencies now, as he’s gotten older. When I visited him a couple days later, I said, “Okay, I want to build a new website. I want to develop a new website, and I have some ideas. But Felix, can you point me to—you know a lot of really talented people—to help me design my next website?” He said—we were on a Zoom like this—he said, “Hang on for a sec.” Started typing into Claude a pretty general statement of, “Give my friend Jon Husband—go scrape his website and blah, blah, blah, and give him an idea of what a good website would look like.” Enter. Wow. Wow, just wow. I started playing with it, and I can do all sorts of interesting things. I can take the wirearchy graphic, I can embed that as a semi-opaque in the back. Anyway, just astonished. I don’t have it up yet, but I will have a new website called wirearchy.com in, I don’t know, about a month or so. I’ll try to put up a couple of my key pieces, but it’s mainly just going to be a landing page. I’ve decided that I don’t have any answers for anything, but I have, you know, 40 years of knowledge about watching organizations morph and change. So I’m going to really just offer half-day and one-day master classes. I respond to all sorts of different situations with different methods, done a lot of facilitation. I think facilitators and coaches are going to be very happy in this new era. Coaching is really interesting. From what I’ve used—Claude, you know, a bit as a personal coach, haven’t tried the others—but I’m really impressed with what they’re going to be able to do, or already can do. Where coaching is going to become critical is at the higher levels, the top of the organization, because all of what we’ve been talking about—sensing, listening, allowing for emergence. The phrase I used to replace “command and control” was “champion and channel”: champion ideas, channel resources. See what happens. Does the node light up? Does the node wither? Does the node connect to other nodes, and so on. This is the world where I think we’re going to be living in, and coaches will be operating at the higher levels to help executives—who have typically been hard-charging and with mindsets they learned 20 or 30 or 40 years ago—helping them adapt, which will be critical. Ross Dawson: Absolutely. There are many people who, for a long time, have been following and applying your insights, Jon, so I’m sure they’ll all be glad to get the update from this podcast and also when your website’s back up. Thank you so much, Jon. Jon: Thank you, Ross. The post Jon Husband on wirearchy, web weaving, the relational economy, and drift diving (AC Ep41) appeared first on Humans + AI.

Sima Basel is a Palestinian-Ukrainian therapist and the co-founder of Grassroots Village, an emerging eco-village in the mountains between Oman and the UAE.We spoke about multiplicity and what it means to hold different lineages, different histories, different griefs in one body, whilst rooted to the land we find ourselves in. About the quiet, often unnamed longing for belonging that so many of us carry.Again and again, we came back to this question of disconnection as something lived in the body, in the nervous system, in the way we organise our lives. The ways we've been taught to heal as individuals, while living in systems that keep us separate from land, from each other and often from our whole selves. Even the disconnection that happens between our many parts.What Sima is building through Grassroots Village feels like a response to these longings as a living inquiry into what happens when we begin to orient differently.There's something in this conversation about remembering. About noticing where healing itself can become another identity… another thing to “do”… and gently returning to something more honest underneath. And also, something about grief. How it moves when it's shared. How it softens when it's witnessed. How much we've lost the spaces that know how to hold it.Learn more about Rooted Healing.The music in this episode is from Cynefin, Bonnie Medicine and Ojhro. Get full access to Rooted Healing at rootedhealing.substack.com/subscribe

For this episode of the SFT Podcast, we hear from Owen Shiers – Welsh folk singer, researcher, grain grower and cultural historian. In his late 20s, Owen was rewarded a scholarship from the Finzi Trust to research folk music in Ceredigion, where he grew up – a moment which he describes as the 'beginning of his journey'. What was originally intended to be an exploration of culture, became an exploration of agriculture as Owen came to learn about the significance of black oats in Wales. During his research, Owen crossed paths with Gerald Miles, an organic farmer from Pembrokeshire, and Iwan Evans Coedfadre, a Welsh folk singer and farmer. Whilst Gerald had been searching for black oats for 20 years, having all but disappeared and been replaced by more modern varieties of oats, Iwan was the last farmer in Wales to be growing them. Through this research, Owen was able to connect Gerald and Iwan, which led to the creation of the Llafur Ni Network ('Our Cereals') – a project they co-founded with the Gaia Foundation, bringing together farmers and growers across Wales to revive black oats and other rare welsh grains. Owen's music, (Cynefin – Owen's 'musical brainchild') is firmly rooted in the customs and cultural vernacular of Ceredigion. His most recent album Shimli, explores the intersection between music, poetry, food and the natural world. Stick around until the end of this episode to hear 'Y Medelwr' (The Reaper Man) from Owen's latest album, and for an explanation about the origins of the song. Elsewhere in the episode, Patrick and Owen also talk about the impact that religion has had on Welsh folk music; how the cultivation and preservation of seeds compares to that of the cultivation of wool and other animal by-products; and they ask, how can we create economic opportunities for people in a food and farming system which is often working against the principles of sustainability? You can listen to Cynefin's music here and and follow him on Instagram. To find out more about the Llafur Ni Network and how Owen first came to meet Gerald and Iwan, watch this brilliant film from The Gaia Foundation and Andy Pilsbury. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our monthly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn and Bluesky. This conversation was recorded in January 2026.   Timestamps: 0:00: Welcome to the SFT Podcast! 0:49: Who is Owen Shiers? 3:17: Exploring the roots of Welsh folk music 5:03: The Methodist Church's impact on folk music in Wales 7:55: Black Oats in Wales 11:06: What can poetry tell us about farming culture? 13:40: Stuck between a rock and a hard place: valuing culture versus making a profit in farming 17:53: Opportunities in agricultural education 23:40: How do we create economic opportunities for people in a system set against the principles of sustainability? 28:18: The Llafur Ni Network 42:06: How does the cultivation and valuing of seeds compare to wool? 45:28: How can we make sustainable food and clothing more affordable? 49:11: Owen reads some Welsh poetry 51:52: Goodbye! 52:31: 'Y Medelwr' (The Reaper Man)

Spring Equinox greetings dear ones,In awe of the sun's return, I've been marinating in the gusty sea breezes moving across the farm. Gentle wind with the occasional passionate gust has always felt like Spirit talking to place or talking to me. We named our lost baby Awel, which is the Cymraeg word for such a breeze as this. The air of spring is the kind that seems to rearrange our thinking as much as the hedgerows, blowing away the thoughts that no longer serve. After a dark, wet, harrowing winter, slow craft with hands in rhythm of thread, fibre, spindle and loom has offered a balm for my soul. Of remembering how to stay in relationship with time rather than racing ahead of it, helping me integrate the winter with tenderness.In this Spring Equinox episode, I'm joined once again by ceremonialist Isla Macleod, with another immersive episode woven with music, ritual, lore and practice, as a way of honouring the turning of the Wheel of the Year.The equinox is often spoken about as balance, as light and dark in equilibrium, but I'm not sure balance is ever still in that way. It feels more like a moment of active negotiation, a living recalibration. A threshold where forces are shifting, adjusting, testing each other. And perhaps that's the real invitation of this time of year: to stay in conversation with what is stirring without rushing toward emergence. To notice where the land is leaning toward light, and where winter still has a voice. To sense the subtle thresholds we ourselves are crossing, sometimes quietly, sometimes reluctantly.This episode is an offering into that space of listening as a companion for attuning to the land, the body and the deeper seasonal intelligence moving through both.You can learn more about Isla's work here, and explore what we're tending at Rooted Healing.The music in this episode comes from the beautiful work of Bonnie Medicine, Cynefin, Telling the Bees and Ojhro - all artists who are also in conversation with land, memory and lore.If the episode resonates, we'd love to hear what is stirring for you this season.With heart, Veronica Get full access to Rooted Healing at rootedhealing.substack.com/subscribe

BONUS: Why the Spotify Model Didn't Work (Even at Spotify) Imagine a company that spends a year building an iPad app—and on launch day the product owner says: "Now it'll be interesting to see IF anyone uses it." In this episode, Marcus Hammarberg and Tore Fjaertoft share why organizations keep installing frameworks like software, why it still doesn't work, and what they've learned from places like Spotify about treating your way of working as a product in itself. When Copying Without Adopting Becomes the Norm "It becomes more about following whatever this framework tells you to do, rather than to understand what the problem you're trying to solve is all about."   Marcus and Tore met at a consultancy in Malmö and within 15 minutes realized they shared the same frustrations—despite coming from opposite directions. Marcus comes from the ground up as a software developer and coach, while Tore works top-down with leadership teams on product organization design. Both had worked at Spotify and both had seen organizations copy famous frameworks and models without adopting the underlying mindset. The telltale sign, as Tore describes it, is when people focus on compliance rather than being pragmatic—following the manual without questioning whether the way they're working is actually serving the organization. As Marcus frames it through Cynefin, product development lives in a domain where best practices don't even exist—only emergent practices that you discover by trying things out. Treat Your Process Like a Product "The easiest way for us to explain things has been: take the mindset you use for your product, and then use that same mindset when you're approaching how you set things up and how you work internally."   The core idea Marcus and Tore keep returning to is deceptively simple: see the way you operate as a product in and of itself. Just as a digital product is never finished—you ship it, observe how customers use it, and evolve accordingly—your operating model should follow the same cycle. Tore explains that the "customers" of your process are your employees: they need less friction, more empowerment, and the ability to spend more time on work that actually moves the needle for users. Marcus connects this to the lean concept of True North—a shared direction that everyone understands, so that every experiment and process change moves the organization closer to what matters. He contrasts this with the three Agile transformations he participated in that all had the same misguided tagline: "get more out of our development organization." As Marcus points out, even the AI DORA report shows developers feeling more productive individually—but is individual productivity really the goal? The Factory Floor Story: Empowerment Needs Alignment "Everyone down here knows that anything we do needs to be the best in the world, in every step."   Marcus shares a powerful story from a Swedish lorry factory where workers changed their workstation instructions several times a day—written on a whiteboard with a pen, not locked in a manual. When asked how they got everyone to engage in continuous improvement, the factory managers didn't understand the question. Every worker on the floor knew they were building the most expensive lorry in the world, and they wanted it to stay the best. That shared purpose drove improvement without mandates.  But Marcus is quick to add the counterbalance: empowerment without alignment leads to local optimization. The factory combined local metrics with overarching flow metrics, so everyone could see how their station fit into the whole chain. Marcus and Tore distill this into three interconnected principles: empowerment to enable people to change how they work, alignment to steer toward shared outcomes, and collaboration to prevent teams from optimizing in isolation. From Static Frameworks to Dynamic Ways of Working "We realized that Spotify didn't use the Spotify model. They moved on, because they see the way they work as a continuously evolving approach."   Tore reveals one of the most striking lessons from their Spotify experience: the company that accidentally created "the Spotify model" had already moved beyond it by the time the rest of the world started copying it. The reason? Spotify treated its way of working as something that continuously evolves—not a static blueprint to install and follow. Marcus adds a practical example from Spotify: on your first day, you got access to the company's key metrics. Everyone knew the True North—at the time, increasing monthly active users—and every process change, every experiment, every team decision was oriented toward that outcome. The contrast with organizations that "install" a framework and then wonder why it doesn't work couldn't be sharper. As Marcus puts it: "We tried process X, it didn't work. We tried process Y, the opposite, and that didn't work either. Why doesn't the process work?" The answer is that the "how" must emerge over time, guided by a clear "why." Always Know Why You're Doing What You're Doing "I don't want anyone to work on anything if you don't know why."   Tore shares a policy from a product management colleague at Spotify: every single day, everyone on his team should be able to articulate not just what they're working on, but why—and the "why" could not be "because person XYZ told me to." It had to connect to the company's purpose and users. Marcus takes this even further, recounting how he once stopped productivity at an entire company by telling developers: don't work on anything unless you know why. Nobody could continue. The uncomfortable silence that followed became a powerful catalyst for change. With an 80% failure rate for product experiments being the industry standard, packaging that risk into year-long projects is a recipe for the iPad app scenario they opened with. The alternative is to build the organizational muscle for rapid experimentation—cheap hypotheses, fast feedback, and the humility to let outcomes guide the way forward.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time you asked your team—or yourself—"why are we doing this?" and got an answer that connected to a real business or user outcome rather than "because the framework says so"?   About Marcus Hammarberg and Tore Fjaertoft Marcus Hammarberg is a product and software coach and consultant who has seen product organizations from the inside and from the trenches. He works at Humane, part of the ADRA consulting collective, and has experience from Spotify, Tradera, and multiple Agile transformations across banks and insurance companies.   Tore Fjaertoft is a product organization advisor who works with leadership teams on how product thinking actually scales in large, complex companies. He works at Above, also part of the ADRA consulting collective, and has experience from Spotify and Volvo Cars.   You can link with Marcus Hammarberg on LinkedIn and Tore Fjaertoft on LinkedIn.

Was haben Taxifahrer mit Wissensmanagement in Organisationen zu tun? Mehr als man zunächst denken würde. Wir reden über eine Ausbildung, die als einer der anspruchsvollsten überhaupt gilt. Dieses Beispiel führt zu einer überraschenden Frage: Wie entsteht eigentlich Wissen und was davon lässt sich überhaupt dokumentieren? In dieser Folge geht es um eine oft übersehene Unterscheidung: den Unterschied zwischen aktivem und passivem Wissen. Zwischen dem, was wir aufschreiben können und dem, was erst im Handeln sichtbar wird. Warum diese Unterscheidung für Organisationen entscheidend ist, welche Rolle Geschichten dabei spielen und weshalb viele Wissensmanagement-Systeme an einer grundlegenden Annahme scheitern, darum geht es in diesem Impuls.

BONUS: From Combat Pilot to Scrum Master - How Military Leadership Transforms Agile Teams In this bonus episode, we explore a fascinating career transition with Nate Amidon, a former Air Force combat pilot who now helps software teams embed military-grade leadership principles into their Agile practices. Nate shares how the high-stakes discipline of aviation translates directly into building high-performing development teams, and why veterans make exceptional Scrum Masters. The Brief-Execute-Debrief Cycle: Aviation Meets Agile "We would mission brief in the morning and make sure everyone was on the same page. Then we problem-solved our way through the day, debriefed after, and did it again. When I learned about what Agile was, I realized it's the exact same thing."   Nate's transition from flying C-17 cargo planes to working with Agile teams wasn't as jarring as you might expect. Flying missions that lasted 2-3 weeks with a crew of 5-7 people taught him the fundamentals of iterative work: daily alignment, continuous problem-solving, and regular reflection. The brief-execute-debrief cycle that every military pilot learns mirrors the sprint cadence that Agile teams follow. Time-boxing wasn't new to him either—when you're flying, you only have so much fuel, so deadlines aren't arbitrary constraints but physical realities that demand disciplined execution. In this episode with Christian Boucousis, we also discuss the brief-execute-debrief cycle in detail.  In this segment, we also refer to Cynefin, and the classification of complexity.  Alignment: The Real Purpose Behind Ceremonies "It's really important to make sure everyone understands why you're doing what you're doing. We don't brief, execute, debrief just because—we do it because we know that getting everybody on the same page is really important."   One of the most valuable insights Nate brings to his work with software teams is the understanding that Agile ceremonies aren't bureaucratic checkboxes—they're alignment mechanisms. The purpose of sprint planning, daily stand-ups, and retrospectives is to ensure everyone knows the mission and can adapt when circumstances change. Interestingly, Nate notes that as teams become more high-performing, briefings get shorter and more succinct. The discipline remains, but the overhead decreases as shared context grows. The Art of Knowing When to Interrupt "There are times when you absolutely should not interrupt an engineer. Every shoulder tap is a 15-minute reset for them to get back into the game. But there are also times when you absolutely should shoulder tap them."   High-performing teams understand the delicate balance between deep work and necessary communication. Nate shares an aviation analogy: when loadmasters are loading complex cargo like tanks and helicopters, interrupting them with irrelevant updates would be counterproductive. But if you discover that cargo shouldn't be on the plane, that's absolutely worth the interruption. This judgment—knowing what matters enough to break flow—is something veterans develop through high-stakes experience. Building this awareness across a software team requires:   Understanding what everyone is working on Knowing the bigger picture of the mission Creating psychological safety so people feel comfortable speaking up Developing shared context through daily stand-ups and retrospectives Why Veterans Make Exceptional Scrum Masters "I don't understand why every junior officer getting out of the military doesn't just get automatically hired as a Scrum Master. If you were to say what we want a Scrum Master to do, and what a junior military officer does—it's line for line."   Nate's company, Form100 Consulting, specifically hires former military officers and senior NCOs for Agile roles, often bringing them on without tech experience. The results consistently exceed expectations because veterans bring foundational leadership skills that are difficult to develop elsewhere: showing up on time, doing what you say you'll do, taking care of team members, seeing the forest through the trees. These intangible qualities—combined with the ability to stay calm, listen actively, and maintain integrity under pressure—make for exceptional servant leaders in the software development space. The Onboarding Framework for Veterans "When somebody joins, we have assigned everybody a wingman—a dedicated person that they check in with regularly to bounce ideas off, to ask questions."   Form100's approach to transitioning veterans into tech demonstrates the same principles they advocate for Agile teams. They screen carefully for the right personality fit, provide dedicated internal training on Agile methodologies and program management, and pair every new hire with a wingman. This military unit culture helps bridge the gap between active duty service and the private sector, addressing one of the biggest challenges: the expectation gap around leadership standards that exists between military and civilian organizations. Extreme Ownership: Beyond Process Management "To be a good Scrum Master, you have to take ownership of the team's execution. If the product requirements aren't good, it's a Scrum Master's job to help. If QA is the problem, take ownership. You should be the vessel and ownership of the entire process of value delivery."   One of Nate's core philosophies comes from Jocko Willink's Extreme Ownership. Too many Scrum Masters limit themselves to being "process people" who set meetings and run ceremonies. True servant leadership means owning everything that affects the team's ability to deliver value—even things technically outside your job description. When retrospectives devolve into listing external factors beyond the team's control, the extreme ownership mindset reframes the conversation: "Did we give the stakeholder the right information? Did they make a great decision based on bad information we provided?" This shift from blame to ownership drives genuine continuous improvement. Building Feedback Loops in Complex Environments "In the military, we talk about the OODA loop. Everything gets tighter, we get better—that's why we do the debrief."   Understanding whether you're operating in a complicated or complex domain (referencing the Cynefin framework) determines how tight your feedback loops need to be. In complex environments—where most software development lives—feedback loops aren't just for reacting to what happened; they're for probing and understanding what's changing. Sprint goals become essential because without knowing where you're headed, you can't detect when circumstances have shifted. The product owner role becomes critical as the voice connecting business priorities to team execution, ensuring the mission stays current even when priorities change mid-sprint. Recommended Resources Nate recommends the following books:  Team of Teams by General McChrystal Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink   About Nate Amidon   Nate is a former Air Force combat pilot and founder of Form100 Consulting. He helps software teams embed leadership at the ground level, translating military principles into Agile practices. With a focus on alignment, accountability, and execution, Nate empowers organizations to lead from within and deliver real results in a dynamic tech landscape.   You can link with Nate Amidon on LinkedIn and learn more at Form100 Consulting.

In this episode of The extra-Ordinary Leader, I sit down with my first-ever returning guest, Roderic Yapp, former Royal Marine Commando and founder of Leadership Capital. Rod brings a razor-sharp perspective to leadership in complex, fast-moving environments, and this conversation expands how we think about context, decision-making, and performance.We explore why context is the overlooked foundation of leadership, how to tell whether your world is simple, complicated or complex, and why you may need to develop an unexpected capability: a small measure of strategic callousness.We also unpack the practical tools leaders can use to stay effective - from drawing systems on paper to understanding the Cynefin framework, experimenting for growth, and knowing when to empower…and when to take control.If you lead people, lead change, or lead yourself, this is one to keep coming back to.Inside This EpisodeWhy context shapes everything — and why most leaders miss itThe multi-tool metaphor: choosing the right behaviour for the momentHow the wrong leadership style destroys performanceThe Cynefin framework in clear, practical languageWhy experiments beat long-range plans in fast growthThree-year horizons and twelve sprints: a smarter way to planDrawing your systems to reveal bottlenecks fastWhere empathy helps — and where it holds leaders backBoundaries, accountability and the realities of performanceThe simplest tool for cutting overwhelm: write it downWhat to bin, what to put in: reflective habits for high-performing leadersRod Yapp: LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rodericyappLeadership Capital: https://leadershipcapital.com/If you'd like to deepen your own leadership journey, my book The extra-Ordinary Leader is available here: https://www.dollywaddell.com/store/p/the-extra-ordinary-leader

Exploring harmony in our educational settings with Richard Dunne & Hilary Wyatt.In this episode, we look at the idea of harmony in education, discussing art, music, geometry and nature and how these aspects of a curriculum can bring harmony both to children and adults, parents, teachers, the staff body and the wider community.Richard Dunne is a former state school headteacher with a 30-year career in education. He is founder and director of The Harmony Project, which puts nature and sustainability at the heart of learning. The organisation works with schools both in the UK and around the world to develop harmony in education.Hilary Wyatt is the Headmistress of St James Nursery & Preparatory School in London. She has taught for 30 years and held senior leadership roles for 17 of those years—15 of which were in London prep schools, including eight as Head of a Pre-Prep and seven as Headteacher. In addition, she is an ISI schools inspector and the mother of two daughters, both of whom attended St James' Senior Girls' School. Links & Notes:More information on The Harmony Project can be found here: https://www.theharmonyproject.org.uk/St James Prep School is a a co-educational independent day school for children aged 2–11 in West Kensington, London. It is part of the St James network of schools, including the Senior Girls School on the same site in Olympia and the Senior Boys School in Ashford. More information can be found here: https://www.stjamesschools.co.uk/prepschool/Viviane Robinson, mentioned in the episode, is an emeritus professor at the University of Auckland specialising in organisational and educational psychology. Joe Kirby's blog has a neat summary of some of her research: https://joe-kirby.com/2023/04/15/problem-solving-viviane-robinson-and-the-shoulders-of-giants-1/Miles Richardson is a Professor of Human Factors and Nature Connectedness at the University of Derby. You can read more about his research on his blog: https://findingnature.org.uk/David recommended Danny Chung Does Not Do Maths by Maisie Chan. It is brilliant, both for middle grade readers as well as adults with a great sense humour. Read for the Romanesco, stay for the excellent character of Nai Nai.This blog post by Susan Davis explains more about the principle of Cynefin, defined by Richard as 'rootedness' and 'a sense of place': https://www.bera.ac.uk/blog/editorial-doing-cynefin-exploring-ideas-on-belonging-connectedness-and-community-in-the-curriculum-for-walesMore about the new Curriculum for Wales can be found here: https://hwb.gov.wales/curriculum-for-wales/

In this episode, Clark and Matt return to the topic of Leadership Development. Is traditional leadership development a worthy endeavor for most organizations? Well, the research, or lack thereof, indicates that at best, it is questionable, and at worst, it may actually undermine or act at cross purposes to what the company strives to attain.  Of course, in the end, they propose what they think might work more effectively. It's about context! Matt and Clark discuss four inherent issues with traditional leadership development, based on Matt's booklet on the topic, available for free download here: https://members.ldaccelerator.com/c/what-is-lda-press/leadership-development-the-four-issues-that-undermine-traditional-leadership-development-programs-3f451f4a-a52a-4ebe-9561-3d4e32cc23ba The Lacerenza, et. al. meta-analysis is below in the references.  Matt makes the case for a definition problem. In other words, we are rarely clear or consistent in our use of the word leadership. Because of this lack of agreement on what the term means, and more importantly, what knowledge, skills, abilities, and values embody effective leadership, it is very difficult to design effective learning.  They highlight the misalignment between what gets espoused by the "experts," the stakeholders in the organization, and the learning team, with how leadership actually shows up behaviorally in practice. Also, there is a tendency for all parties to idealize the factors that make up leadership and ignore, or sweep under the rug, some of the more nefarious behaviors that support leader outcomes.  Next, there is validity and reliability. When the learning team decides what to teach, is the model, the process, or the tools supported by research and experience? Do they work consistently over time? Matt uses Servant Leadership as an example. Of course, given the next problem of context, we know they are not consistent. But we make matters worse when we also use models unsupported by evidence and research… or, we use models that work once or twice in practice… but not in all circumstances. Finally, Clark and Matt explore the problem of the said context. Shifting situations, people, crises, opportunities, technology, and more make the environment in which one leads always unique and difficult to predict. What works today tends not to work tomorrow. What didn't work yesterday may work today.  Matt raises the Keith Grint model of leadership based on wicked, tame, and critical problems. Throughout the discussion, they reference lots of leadership and leadership development researchers and thought leaders (references below). They mention Jeffrey Pfeffer, Barbara Kellerman, Ronald Riggio, John Kotter, Warren Bennis, Bert Nanus, and David Grad.  Clark mentions the Cynefin framework by Dave Snowden as an alternative to the Grint framework. You can learn about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework  At one point, Matt refers to the hypocrisy of many corporate CEOs about Black Lives Matter. A good article on this was written by the BBC way back in 2020. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200612-black-lives-matter-do-companies-really-support-the-cause  Clark refers to The Gervais Principle by Venkatesh Rao when the two talk about psychopathy, or sociopathy, in leadership. Clark also calls back to a Matt favorite, Brian Klaas' Corruptible.  REFERENCES: Burns, J. M. (1978). Leadership (1st ed.). New York: Harper & Row. Burns, J. M. (2003). Transforming leadership: A new pursuit of happiness. New York: Atlantic Monthly Press. Grint, K. (2005). Problems, problems, problems: The social construction of ‘leadership.' Human Relations. 58 (11), 1467-1494. Kellerman, B. (2012). The end of leadership (1st ed.). New York: Harper Business, An Imprint of Harper Collins Publishers. Kellerman, B. (2015). Hard times : leadership in America. Stanford, California: Stanford Business Books, an imprint of Stanford University Press. Lacerenza, C.N., Reyes, D.L., Marlowe, S.L., and Joseph, D.L. (2017). Leadership Training Design, Delivery, and Implementation: A Meta Analysis. Journal of Applied Psychology, 1686-1718. https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-32276-001  Northouse, P. G. (2019). Leadership : theory and practice (Eighth Edition. ed.). Los Angeles: SAGE Publications. Pfeffer, J. (2015). Leadership BS : fixing workplaces and careers one truth at a time (First edition. ed.). New York, NY: Harper Business, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. Riggio, R. E. (Ed.) (2018). What's Wrong with Leadership? New York: Routledge. Rittel, H.W.J. and Webber, M.M.. (1973) Dilemmas in a General Theory of Planning. Policy Sciences. 4, pp. 155-169. Toor, S.-u.-R. (2011). Differentiating Leadership from Management: An Empirical Investigation of Leaders and Managers. Leadership and Management in Engineering, 11(4), 310-320. doi:doi:10.1061/(ASCE)LM.1943-5630.0000138  Toor, S.U.R. & Ofori, G. (2008). Leadership versus Management: How They Are Different, and Why. Leadership and Management in Engineering, 8(2), 61-71. doi:doi:10.1061/(ASCE)1532-6748(2008)8:2(61)  Young, M., & Dulewicz, V. (2007). Similarities and Differences between Leadership and Management: High-Performance Competencies in the British Royal Navy. British Journal of Management, 19(1), 17-32. doi: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-8551.2007.00534.x 

Dave, Esmee, and Rob take a moment to look back on the wild ride that was Season 4—revisiting the themes that sparked the biggest conversations and the guests who left a lasting impression. They also reveal what's on their summer to-do lists and drop a few juicy hints about what's coming in Season 5. Get ready—it's going to be even bigger and bolder.Thank you to all our listeners and guests for joining us in Season 4 - have a great summer and we will see you in September!TLDR:00:40 Season 4 by the numbers – and a fun mix-up with round figures03:20 Reflecting on standout topics and memorable guests03:42 Scaling AI: Hyperscaler narratives, tech momentum, and the adoption gap13:18 Ethics in the AI era – how organizations can and must stay grounded18:12 The human factor: Why “human-in-the-loop” matters more than ever27:29 Sovereignty in tech – geopolitics, shifting narratives, and the rise of Sovereign AI37:16 A deep dive into Telco – highlights from our dedicated mini-series53:48 2025 tech trends with Gene Kim55:33 Listener Q&A: Daniel Delicate on Cynefin vs. IT operating models1:01:44 Andrea Kis on keeping humanity in fast-paced tech1:06:09 Ezhil Suresh on how we prep and record our podcast with top-tier guests1:11:38 John Eaton-Griffin on how guests have shaped our thinking1:17:19 A word from our co-host1:19:57 Looking ahead to Season 5: AAA episodes, new industry mini-series, and Hyperscaler events1:22:09 Meet our new AI companions: Substack and the Cloud Realities chatbot1:23:40 What's next for us this summerHostsDave Chapman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chapmandr/Esmee van de Giessen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmeevandegiessen/Rob Kernahan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-kernahan/ProductionMarcel van der Burg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcel-vd-burg/Dave Chapman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chapmandr/SoundBen Corbett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-corbett-3b6a11135/Louis Corbett:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/louis-corbett-087250264/'Cloud Realities' is an original podcast from Capgemini

In this eye-opening episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with software engineer and consultant William Bernting to explore a radical approach to hiring, teamwork, and technical leadership. William walks us through his real-world experience with mob programming interviews—a collaborative hiring process where candidates join the team in an ensemble coding session, not a contrived solo coder test. He shares the surprising benefits of evaluating candidates through communication, alignment, and problem-solving over individual technical trivia. We dive into: Why mob programming is a great way to assess team fit and long-term success How to structure collaborative interviews that reduce anxiety and reveal true strengths What happens when you ditch traditional project-led methods and focus on predictability through steady flow How the Cynefin framework helps make sense of complex team dynamics and guides leadership decisions What freelance engineering looks like when trust, autonomy, and collaboration lead the way William also discusses how he's made his work more stable and sustainable—for both clients and team members—without relying on estimates or rigid plans. Instead, he uses continuous delivery, test-driven development (TDD), and mobbing to achieve results that are both reliable and adaptable. Whether you're a hiring manager rethinking your interview process, an engineer looking to join better teams, or a leader trying to move beyond chaotic delivery cycles, this conversation offers practical takeaways and fresh perspective.

What can the TV show House teach us about centralisation? In this episode of Troubleshooting Agile, Squirrel and Jeffrey talk about centralised communication, how it contributed to them first meeting and what to do when there's an imbalance of expertise in the room. SHOW LINKS: - Peer Review article: https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/we-know-how-to-fix-peer-review-part - CITCON: https://citconf.com/london2025/ - Cynefin: https://thecynefin.co/about-us/about-cynefin-framework/ - Situational Leadership: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_leadership_theory -------------------------------------------------- You'll find free videos and practice material, plus our book Agile Conversations, at agileconversations.com And we'd love to hear any thoughts, ideas, or feedback you have about the show: email us at info@agileconversations.com -------------------------------------------------- About Your Hosts Douglas Squirrel and Jeffrey Fredrick joined forces at TIM Group in 2013, where they studied and practised the art of management through difficult conversations. Over a decade later, they remain united in their passion for growing profitable organisations through better communication. Squirrel is an advisor, author, keynote speaker, coach, and consultant, and he's helped over 300 companies of all sizes make huge, profitable improvements in their culture, skills, and processes. You can find out more about his work here: douglassquirrel.com/index.html Jeffrey is Vice President of Engineering at ION Analytics, Organiser at CITCON, the Continuous Integration and Testing Conference, and is an accomplished author and speaker. You can connect with him here: www.linkedin.com/in/jfredrick/

Pascal Papathemelis: From Waterfall to Agile—A Multi-Level Change Strategy Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Pascal describes a successful agile transformation where he collaborated with a fellow coach in the IT department of a large organization with a waterfall history and heavy documentation-driven processes. The two coaches worked together effectively, sharing information and scouting for opportunities to take action. They began with an assessment and discussions across IT, business, and management levels to understand the current state. Using the Cynefin framework to understand complexity, they conducted a two-day workshop to introduce Agile vocabulary, covering concepts like Push/Pull and process waste.  The coaches operated at multiple levels simultaneously - working strategically with leadership who typically pushed excessive work to the organization, while also helping teams visualize their processes and clarify priorities. At the team level, they acted as Scrum Masters to demonstrate the role while mentoring the actual Scrum Master through one-on-one sessions. They also supported the Product Owner in understanding their role and used story maps to help visualize and organize work effectively. Self-reflection Question: How might collaborating with another coach or change agent amplify your effectiveness in leading organizational transformation? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

The Scrum community is buzzing about a new 55-page expansion to the Scrum Guide. Is this the depth practitioners have been asking for, or is it turning the lightweight framework into bloatware? In this episode, Enterprise Business Agility Coach Om Patel and Product Manager Brian Orlando critically examine the "DLC" that claims the original guide was "deliberately oversimplified." We explore new concepts like outcome vs output definitions of done, the "supporters" role, and the inclusion of complex frameworks like Cynefin.Stick around as we debate whether these additions help teams navigate complexity or create more confusion, while highlighting crucial omissions around organizational structure and practical implementation guidance. #Scrum #Agile #ProductDevelopment= = = = = = = = = = = =LINKS= = = = = = = = = = = = http://arguingagile.comYouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/@arguingagileSpotify https://open.spotify.com/show/362QvYORmtZRKAeTAE57v3Applehttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/agile-podcast/id1568557596= = = = = = = = = = = =Toronto Is My Beat (Music Sample)By Whitewolf (Source: https://ccmixter.org/files/whitewolf225/60181)CC BY 4.0 DEED (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/deed.en)

BONUS: Solution-Focused Coaching: The Game-Changing Method Every Scrum Master Needs With Ralph Miarka and Veronika Jugwirth In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into solution-focused coaching with Ralph and Veronika, co-authors of "Solution Focused Coaching For Agile Teams." This conversation explores how to shift from problem-solving to solution-building, helping Agile teams thrive through a forward-looking approach that empowers teams to find their own path to success. Understanding Solution-Focused Coaching "Solution focus, focuses on the goal itself. We are not talking about 'how', but first start with 'what we want to achieve'." Solution-focused coaching represents a fundamental shift from traditional problem-solving approaches. Rather than diving into root cause analysis and retrospectives focused on what went wrong, this methodology centers on the future and desired outcomes. It operates as a communication system that recognizes the complexity of modern work environments where simple cause-effect relationships don't always apply. In engineering, root causes make sense when dealing with predictable systems, but in complex organizational dynamics, solution-focused coaching acknowledges that we often can't identify clear root causes and instead focuses on creating a "preferred future." In this segment we refer to Solution-focused brief therapy and the Cynefin model.  The Power of Not-Knowing "Instead of suggesting solutions, we should start by asking questions. The “Not-knowing position” is about accepting this." The "not-knowing position" challenges coaches and leaders to resist the urge to immediately diagnose problems and offer solutions. When someone shares their story, they're not sharing the version we think we know. This approach transforms coaching conversations by starting with questions like "What difference would it make for you to solve this problem?" This shift toward asking questions about a positive future can even help identify advocates among those who initially resist change, creating unexpected allies in transformation efforts. Everyone as an Expert "When we help teams change by themselves, they change much faster." The principle that "everyone is an expert in their situation" fundamentally changes how coaches approach team dynamics, especially during periods of pressure or conflict. Instead of imposing external solutions, this approach involves asking teams what they already like about their current practices. For example, when observing daily standups with their natural diversity of approaches, focusing on what teams appreciate about their existing practices creates a foundation for sustainable change. Teams that discover their own path to improvement implement changes more rapidly and with greater commitment than those following prescribed solutions. The Miracle Question Technique "What would be a very small first sign that tells you that there was a small miracle during the night?" The Miracle Question emerges from real coaching conversations where clients express that "only a miracle can help." Rather than dismissing this statement, solution-focused coaches embrace the client's language to create powerful exploration opportunities. The technique involves asking teams to imagine their situation after a small miracle has occurred overnight, then identifying the first small signs they would notice. This approach helps teams explore possibilities and envision concrete steps toward their preferred future, making abstract goals tangible and achievable. Unlearning the Fix-It Mentality "Don't work by yourself in the problems of others, let them work." For Agile practitioners trained to identify and fix problems, solution-focused coaching requires a significant mindset shift. Instead of jumping into problem-solving mode, coaches must learn to hold space for solutions to emerge naturally from the team. This involves trusting that team members are experts in their own situations and developing strong questioning skills. Coaches and Scrum Masters need to clarify their own goals and resist the urge to solve problems for others, instead creating conditions where teams can work through challenges themselves. Practical Questions for Immediate Implementation "What do we want to achieve? What is our goal, and why?" Teams can immediately begin incorporating solution-focused approaches by bringing specific questions into their regular ceremonies. Key questions include exploring what the team wants to achieve and understanding the underlying purpose behind their goals. Additionally, asking "What works already?" helps teams build on existing strengths rather than focusing solely on problems. Confidence-building questions like "How confident are we?" and "What would make you more confident?" create opportunities for teams to identify specific actions that would increase their likelihood of success. About Ralph and Veronika Ralph Miarka is an Agile coach, trainer, and co-author of the book that is our topic for today's episode: Solution Focused Coaching For Agile Teams. Ralph helps teams thrive through solution-focused coaching. With a background in engineering and leadership, he bridges structure and empathy to spark real change. You can link with Ralph Miarka on LinkedIn. Veronika Jungwrith is a coach, consultant, and facilitator, Veronika blends solution-focused coaching with leadership development. Her work empowers individuals and teams to navigate complexity with clarity, meaning, and lasting impact. You can link with Veronika Jungwrith on LinkedIn.

In this episode of the Business Leaders Coach podcast, Toye Oshunbiyi sits down with renowned leadership expert and author Kevin Eikenberry to explore what it truly means to lead in times of uncertainty.Based on his latest book, Flexible Leadership, Kevin shares how leaders can develop the mindset, skillset, and habit set needed to adapt to change without losing their values or direction.You'll learn:Why flexibility is essential for modern leadershipThe difference between reacting and responding with intentionHow to use the Cynefin framework to understand the context you're leading inHow to balance consistency with adaptabilityWhy confidence in leadership doesn't come from having all the answers, but knowing how to flexWhether you're leading a team, running a business, or preparing for what's next, this episode will give you practical insights and a powerful framework to help you lead with clarity and confidence, no matter what comes your way.

Guest Bio:  Dave Snowden divides his time between two roles: founder & Chief Scientific Officer of Cognitive Edge and the founder and Director of the Centre for Applied Complexity at the University of Wales.  Known for creating the sense-making framework, Cynefin, Dave's work is international in nature and covers government and industry looking at complex issues relating to strategy, organisational decision making and decision making.  He has pioneered a science-based approach to organisations drawing on anthropology, neuroscience and complex adaptive systems theory.  He is a popular and passionate keynote speaker on a range of subjects, and is well known for his pragmatic cynicism and iconoclastic style. He holds positions as extra-ordinary Professor at the Universities of Pretoria and Stellenbosch and visiting Professor at Bangor University in Wales respectively.  He has held similar positions at Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Canberra University, the University of Warwick and The University of Surrey.  He held the position of senior fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies at Nanyang University and the Civil Service College in Singapore during a sabbatical period in Nanyang. His paper with Boone on Leadership was the cover article for the Harvard Business Review in November 2007 and also won the Academy of Management aware for the best practitioner paper in the same year.  He has previously won a special award from the Academy for originality in his work on knowledge management. He is a editorial board member of several academic and practitioner journals in the field of knowledge management and is an Editor in Chief of E:CO.  In 2006 he was Director of the EPSRC (UK) research programme on emergence and in 2007 was appointed to an NSF (US) review panel on complexity science research. He previously worked for IBM where he was a Director of the Institution for Knowledge Management and founded the Cynefin Centre for Organisational Complexity; during that period he was selected by IBM as one of six on-demand thinkers for a world-wide advertising campaign. Prior to that he worked in a range of strategic and management roles in the service sector. His company Cognitive Edge exists to integrate academic thinking with practice in organisations throughout the world and operates on a network model working with Academics, Government, Commercial Organisations, NGOs and Independent Consultants.  He is also the main designer of the SenseMaker® software suite, originally developed in the field of counter terrorism and now being actively deployed in both Government and Industry to handle issues of impact measurement, customer/employee insight, narrative based knowledge management, strategic foresight and risk management. The Centre for Applied Complexity was established to look at whole of citizen engagement in government and is running active programmes in Wales and elsewhere in areas such as social inclusion, self-organising communities and nudge economics together with a broad range of programmes in health.  The Centre will establish Wales as a centre of excellence for the integration of academic and practitioner work in creating a science-based approach to understanding society.   Social Media and Website LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dave-snowden-2a93b Twitter: @snowded Website: Cognitive Edge https://www.cognitive-edge.com/   Books/ Resources: Book: Cynefin - Weaving Sense-Making into the Fabric of Our World by Dave Snowden and Friends https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cynefin-Weaving-Sense-Making-Fabric-World/dp/1735379905 Book: Hope Without Optimism by Terry Eagleton https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hope-Without-Optimism-Terry-Eagleton/dp/0300248679/ Book: Theology of Hope by Jurgen Moltmann https://www.amazon.co.uk/Theology-Hope-Classics-Jurgen-Moltmann/dp/0334028787 Poem: ‘Mending Wall' by Robert Frost https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44266/mending-wall Video: Dave Snowden on ‘Rewilding Agile' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrgaPDqet4c Article reference to ‘Rewilding Agile' by Dave Snowden https://cynefin.io/index.php/User:Snowded Field Guide to Managing Complexity (and Chaos) In Times of Crisis https://cynefin.io/index.php/Field_guide_to_managing_complexity_(and_chaos)_in_times_of_crisis Field Guide to Managing Complexity (and Chaos) In Times of Crisis (2) https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/managing-complexity-and-chaos-times-crisis-field-guide-decision-makers-inspired-cynefin-framework Cynefin Wiki https://cynefin.io/wiki/Main_Page   Interview Transcript Ula Ojiaku:  Dave, thank you for making the time for this conversation. I read in your, your latest book - the book, Cynefin: Weaving Sense Making into the Fabric of Our World, which was released, I believe, in celebration of the twenty first year of the framework. And you mentioned that in your childhood, you had multidisciplinary upbringing which involved lots of reading. Could you tell us a bit more about that? Dave Snowden:  I think it wasn't uncommon in those days. I mean, if you did… I mean, I did science A levels and mathematical A levels. But the assumption was you would read every novel that the academic English class were reading. In fact, it was just unimaginable (that) you wouldn't know the basics of history. So, if you couldn't survive that in the sixth form common room, and the basics of science were known by most of the arts people as well. So that that was common, right. And we had to debate every week anyway. So, every week, you went up to the front of the class and you were given a card, and you'd have the subject and which side you are on, and you had to speak for seven minutes without preparation. And we did that every week from the age of 11 to 18. And that was a wonderful discipline because it meant you read everything. But also, my mother was… both my parents were the first from working class communities to go to university. And they got there by scholarship or sheer hard work against the opposition of their families. My mother went to university in Germany just after the war, which was extremely brave of her -  you know, as a South Wales working class girl. So, you weren't allowed not to be educated, it was considered the unforgivable sin. Ula Ojiaku:   Wow. Did it mean that she had to learn German, because (she was) studying in Germany…? Dave Snowden:  She well, she got A levels in languages. So, she went to university to study German and she actually ended up as a German teacher, German and French. So, she had that sort of background. Yeah. Ula Ojiaku:  And was that what influenced you? Because you also mentioned in the book that you won a £60 prize? Dave Snowden:  Oh, no, that was just fun. So, my mum was very politically active. We're a South Wales labor. Well, I know if I can read but we were labor. And so, she was a local Councilor. She was always politically active. There's a picture of me on Bertrand Russell's knee and her as a baby on a CND march. So it was that sort of background. And she was campaigning for comprehensive education, and had a ferocious fight with Aiden Williams, I think, who was the Director of Education, it was really nasty. I mean, I got threatened on my 11 Plus, he got really nasty. And then so when (I was) in the sixth form, I won the prize in his memory, which caused endless amusement in the whole county. All right. I think I probably won it for that. But that was for contributions beyond academic. So, I was leading lots of stuff in the community and stuff like that. But I had £60. And the assumption was, you go and buy one massive book. And I didn't, I got Dad to drive me to Liverpool - went into the big bookshop there and just came out with I mean, books for two and six pence. So, you can imagine how many books I could get for £60. And I just took everything I could find on philosophy and history and introductory science and stuff like that and just consumed it. Ula Ojiaku:  Wow, it seemed like you already knew what you wanted even before winning the prize money, you seem to have had a wish list... Dave Snowden:  I mean, actually interesting, and the big things in the EU field guide on (managing) complexity which was just issued. You need to build…, You need to stop saying, ‘this is the problem, we will find the solution' to saying, ‘how do I build capability, that can solve problems we haven't yet anticipated?' And I think that's part of the problem in education. Because my children didn't have that benefit. They had a modular education. Yeah, we did a set of exams at 16 and a set of exams that 18 and between those periods, we could explore it (i.e. options) and we had to hold everything in our minds for those two periods, right? For my children, it was do a module, pass a test, get a mark, move on, forget it move on. So, it's very compartmentalized, yeah? And it's also quite instrumentalist. We, I think we were given an education as much in how to learn and have had to find things out. And the debating tradition was that; you didn't know what you're going to get hit with. So, you read everything, and you thought about it, and you learn to think on your feet. And I think that that sort of a broad switch, it started to happen in the 80s, along with a lot of other bad things in management. And this is when systems thinking started to dominate. And we moved to an engineering metaphor. And you can see it in cybernetics and everything else, it's an attempt to define everything as a machine. And of course, machines are designed for a purpose, whereas ecosystems evolve for resilience. And I think that's kind of like where I, my generation were and it's certainly what we're trying to bring back in now in sort of in terms of practice. Ula Ojiaku:  I have an engineering background and a computer science background. These days, I'm developing a newfound love for philosophy, psychology, law and, you know, intersect, how do all these concepts intersect? Because as human beings we're complex, we're not machines where you put the program in and you expect it to come out the same, you know, it's not going to be the same for every human being. What do you think about that? Dave Snowden:  Yeah. And I think, you know, we know more on this as well. So, we know the role of art in human evolution is being closely linked to innovation. So, art comes before language. So, abstraction allows you to make novel connections. So, if you focus entirely on STEM education, you're damaging the human capacity to innovate. And we're, you know, as creatures, we're curious. You know. And I mean, we got this whole concept of our aporia, which is key to connecting that, which is creating a state of deliberate confusion, or a state of paradox. And the essence of a paradox is you can't resolve it. So, you're forced to think differently. So, the famous case on this is the liar's paradox, alright? I mean, “I always lie”. That just means I lied. So, if that means I was telling the truth. So, you've got to think differently about the problem. I mean, you've seen those paradoxes do the same thing. So that, that deliberate act of creating confusion so people can see novelty is key. Yeah. Umm and if you don't find… finding ways to do that, so when we looked at it, we looked at linguistic aporia, aesthetic aporia and physical aporia. So, I got some of the… one of the defining moments of insight on Cynefin was looking at Caravaggio`s paintings in Naples. When I realized I've been looking for the idea of the liminality. And that was, and then it all came together, right? So those are the trigger points requiring a more composite way of learning. I think it's also multiculturalism, to be honest. I mean, I, when I left university, I worked on the World Council of Churches come, you know program to combat racism. Ula Ojiaku:  Yes, I'd like to know more about that. That's one of my questions… Dave Snowden:  My mother was a good atheist, but she made me read the Bible on the basis, I wouldn't understand European literature otherwise, and the penetration guys, I became a Catholic so… Now, I mean, that that was fascinating, because I mean, I worked on Aboriginal land rights in Northern Australia, for example. And that was when I saw an activist who was literally murdered in front of me by a security guard. And we went to the police. And they said, it's only an Abo. And I still remember having fights in Geneva, because South Africa was a tribal conflict with a racial overlay. I mean, Africa, and its Matabele Zulu, arrived in South Africa together and wiped out the native population. And if you don't understand that, you don't understand the Matabele betrayal. You don't understand what happened. It doesn't justify apartheid. And one of the reasons there was a partial reconciliation, is it actually was a tribal conflict. And the ritual actually managed that. Whereas in Australia, in comparison was actually genocide. Yeah, it wasn't prejudice, it was genocide. I mean, until 1970s, there, were still taking half -breed children forcibly away from their parents, inter-marrying them in homes, to breed them back to white. And those are, I think, yeah, a big market. I argued this in the UK, I said, one of the things we should actually have is bring back national service. I couldn't get the Labor Party to adopt it. I said, ‘A: Because it would undermine the Conservatives, because they're the ones who talk about that sort of stuff. But we should allow it to be overseas.' So, if you put two years into working in communities, which are poorer than yours, round about that 18 to 21-year-old bracket, then we'll pay for your education. If you don't, you'll pay fees. Because you proved you want to give to society. And that would have been… I think, it would have meant we'd have had a generation of graduates who understood the world because that was part of the objective. I mean, I did that I worked on worked in South Africa, on the banks of Zimbabwe on the audits of the refugee camps around that fight. And in Sao Paulo, in the slums, some of the work of priests. You can't come back from that and not be changed. And I think it's that key formative period, we need to give people. Ula Ojiaku:  True and like you said, at that age, you know, when you're young and impressionable, it helps with what broadening your worldview to know that the world is bigger than your father's … compound (backyard)… Dave Snowden:  That's the worst problem in Agile, because what, you've got a whole class of, mainly white males and misogynism in Agile is really bad. It's one of the worst areas for misogyny still left, right, in terms of where it works. Ula Ojiaku:  I'm happy you are the one saying it not me… Dave Snowden:  Well, no, I mean, it is it's quite appalling. And so, what you've actually got is, is largely a bunch of white male game players who spent their entire time on computers. Yeah, when you take and run seriously after puberty, and that's kind of like a dominant culture. And that's actually quite dangerous, because it lacks, it lacks cultural diversity, it lacks ethnic diversity, it lacks educational diversity. And I wrote an article for ITIL, recently, which has been published, which said, no engineers should be allowed out, without training in ethics. Because the implications of what software engineers do now are huge. And the problem we've got, and this is a really significant, it's a big data problem as well. And you see it with a behavioral economic economist and the nudge theory guys - all of whom grab these large-scale data manipulations is that they're amoral, they're not immoral, they're amoral. And that's actually always more scary. It's this sort of deep level instrumentalism about the numbers; the numbers tell me what I need to say. Ula Ojiaku:  And also, I mean, just building on what you've said, there are instances, for example, in artificial intelligence is really based on a sample set from a select group, and it doesn't necessarily recognize things that are called ‘outliers'. You know, other races… Dave Snowden:  I mean, I've worked in that in all my life now back 20, 25 years ago. John Poindexter and I were on a stage in a conference in Washington. This was sort of early days of our work on counter terrorism. And somebody asked about black box AI and I said, nobody's talking about the training data sets. And I've worked in AI from the early days, all right, and the training data sets matter and nobody bothered. They just assumed… and you get people publishing books which say correlation is causation, which is deeply worrying, right? And I think Google is starting to acknowledge that, but it's actually very late. And the biases which… we were looking at a software tool the other day, it said it can, it can predict 85% of future events around culture. Well, it can only do that by constraining how executive see culture, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And then the recruitment algorithms will only recruit people who match that cultural expectation and outliers will be eliminated. There's an HBO film coming up shortly on Myers Briggs. Now, Myers Briggs is known to be a pseudo-science. It has no basis whatsoever in any clinical work, and even Jung denied it, even though it's meant to be based on his work. But it's beautiful for HR departments because it allows them to put people into little categories. And critically it abrogates, judgment, and that's what happened with systems thinking in the 80s 90s is everything became spreadsheets and algorithms. So, HR departments would produce… instead of managers making decisions based on judgment, HR departments would force them into profile curves, to allocate resources. Actually, if you had a high performing team who were punished, because the assumption was teams would not have more than… Ula Ojiaku:  Bell curve... Dave Snowden:  …10 percent high performance in it. All right. Ula Ojiaku:  Yeah. Dave Snowden:  And this sort of nonsense has been running in the 80s, 90s and it coincided with… three things came together. One was the popularization of systems thinking. And unfortunately, it got popularized around things like process reengineering and learning organization. So that was a hard end. And Sanghi's pious can the sort of the, the soft end of it, right? But both of them were highly directional. It was kind of like leaders decide everything follows. Yeah. And that coincided with the huge growth of computing - the ability to handle large volumes of information. And all of those sorts of things came together in this sort of perfect storm, and we lost a lot of humanity in the process. Ula Ojiaku:  Do you think there's hope for us to regain the humanity in the process? Because it seems like the tide is turning from, I mean, there is still an emphasis, in my view, on systems thinking, however, there is the growing realization that we have, you know, knowledge workers and people… Dave Snowden:  Coming to the end of its park cycle, I see that all right. I can see it with the amount of cybernetics fanboys, and they are all boys who jump on me every time I say something about complexity, right? So, I think they're feeling threatened. And the field guide is significant, because it's a government, you know, government can like publication around effectively taken an ecosystems approach, not a cybernetic approach. And there's a book published by a good friend of mine called Terry Eagleton, who's… I don't think he's written a bad book. And he's written about 30, or 40. I mean, the guy just produces his stuff. It's called “Hope without Optimism”. And I think, hope is… I mean, Moltman just also published an update of his Theology of Hope, which is worth reading, even if you're not religious. But hope is one of those key concepts, right, you should… to lose hope is a sin. But hope is not the same thing as optimism. In fact, pessimistic people who hope actually are probably the ones who make a difference, because they're not naive, right? And this is my objection to the likes of Sharma Ga Sengi, and the like, is they just gather people together to talk about how things should be. And of course, everything should be what, you know, white MIT, educated males think the world should be like. I mean, it's very culturally imperialist in that sort of sense. And then nobody changes because anybody can come together in the workshop and agree how things should be. It's when you make a difference in the field that it counts, you've got to create a micro difference. This is hyper localization, you got to create lots and lots of micro differences, which will stimulate the systems, the system will change. I think, three things that come together, one is COVID. The other is global warming. And the other is, and I prefer to call it the epistemic justice movement, though, that kind of like fits in with Black Lives Matter. But epistemic justice doesn't just affect people who are female or black. I mean, if you come to the UK and see the language about the Welsh and the Irish, or the jokes made about the Welsh in BBC, right? The way we use language can designate people in different ways and I think that's a big movement, though. And it's certainly something we develop software for. So, I think those three come together, and I think the old models aren't going to be sustainable. I mean, the cost is going to be terrible. I mean, the cost to COVID is already bad. And we're not getting this thing as long COVID, it's permanent COVID. And people need to start getting used to that. And I think that's, that's going to change things. So, for example, in the village I live in Wiltshire. Somebody's now opened an artisan bakery in their garage and it's brilliant. And everybody's popping around there twice a week and just buying the bread and having a chat on the way; socially-distanced with masks, of course. And talking of people, that sort of thing is happening a lot. COVID has forced people into local areas and forced people to realise the vulnerability of supply chains. So, you can see changes happening there. The whole Trump phenomenon, right, and the Boris murmuring in the UK is ongoing. It's just as bad as the Trump phenomenon. It's the institutionalization of corruption as a high level. Right? Those sorts of things trigger change, right? Not without cost, change never comes without cost, but it just needs enough… It needs local action, not international action. I think that's the key principle. To get a lot of people to accept things like the Paris Accord on climate change, and you've got to be prepared to make sacrifices. And it's too distant a time at the moment, it has to become a local issue for the international initiatives to actually work and we're seeing that now. I mean… Ula Ojiaku:  It sounds like, sorry to interrupt - it sounds like what you're saying is, for the local action, for change to happen, it has to start with us as individuals… Dave Snowden:  The disposition… No, not with individuals. That's actually very North American, the North European way of thinking right. The fundamental kind of basic identity structure of humans is actually clans, not individuals. Ula Ojiaku:  Clans... Dave Snowden:  Yeah. Extended families, clans; it's an ambiguous word. We actually evolved for those. And you need it at that level, because that's a high level of social interaction and social dependency. And it's like, for example, right? I'm dyslexic. Right? Yeah. If I don't see if, if the spelling checker doesn't pick up a spelling mistake, I won't see it. And I read a whole page at a time. I do not read it sentence by sentence. All right. And I can't understand why people haven't seen the connections I make, because they're obvious, right? Equally, there's a high degree of partial autism in the Agile community, because that goes with mathematical ability and thing, and that this so-called education deficiencies, and the attempt to define an ideal individual is a mistake, because we evolved to have these differences. Ula Ojiaku:  Yes. Dave Snowden:  Yeah. And the differences understood that the right level of interaction can change things. So, I think the unit is clan, right for extended family, or extended, extended interdependence. Ula Ojiaku:  Extended interdependence… Dave Snowden:  We're seeing that in the village. I mean, yeah, this is classic British atomistic knit, and none of our relatives live anywhere near us. But the independence in the village is increasing with COVID. And therefore, people are finding relationships and things they can do together. Now, once that builds to a critical mass, and it does actually happen exponentially, then bigger initiatives are possible. And this is some of the stuff we were hoping to do in the US shortly on post-election reconciliation. And the work we've been doing in Malmo, in refugees and elsewhere in the world, right, is you change the nature of localized interaction with national visibility, so that you can measure the dispositional state of the system. And then you can nudge the system when it's ready to change, because then the energy cost of change is low. But that requires real time feedback loops in distributed human sensor networks, which is a key issue in the field guide. And the key thing that comes back to your original question on AI, is, the internet at the moment is an unbuffered feedback loop. Yeah, where you don't know the source of the data, and you can't control the source of the data. And any network like that, and this is just apriori science factor, right will always become perverted. Ula Ojiaku:  And what do you mean by term apriori? Dave Snowden:  Oh, before the facts, you don't need to, we don't need to wait for evidence. It's like in an agile, you can look at something like SAFe® which case claims to scale agile and just look at it you say it's apriori wrong (to) a scale a complex system. So, it's wrong. All right. End of argument right. Now let's talk about the details, right. So yeah, so that's, you know, that's coming back. The hyper localization thing is absolutely key on that, right? And the same is true to be honest in software development. A lot of our work now is to understand the unarticulated needs of users. And then shift technology in to actually meet those unarticulated needs. And that requires a complex approach to architecture, in which people and technology are objects with defined interactions around scaffolding structures, so that applications can emerge in resilience, right? And that's actually how local communities evolve as well. So, we've now got the theoretical constructs and a lot of the practical methods to actually… And I've got a series of blog posts - which I've got to get back to writing - called Rewilding Agile. And rewilding isn't returning to the original state, it's restoring balance. So, if you increase the number of human actors as your primary sources, and I mean human actors, not as people sitting on (in front of) computer screens who can be faked or mimicked, yeah? … and entirely working on text, which is about 10%, of what we know, dangerous, it might become 80% of what we know and then you need to panic. Right? So, you know, by changing those interactions, increasing the human agency in the system, that's how you come to, that's how you deal with fake news. It's not by writing better algorithms, because then it becomes a war with the guys faking the news, and you're always gonna lose. Ula Ojiaku:  So, what do you consider yourself, a person of faith? Dave Snowden:  Yeah. Ula Ojiaku:  Why? Dave Snowden:  Oh, faith is like hope and charity. I mean, they're the great virtues… I didn't tell you I got into a lot in trouble in the 70s. Dave Snowden:  I wrote an essay that said Catholicism, Marxism and Hinduism were ontologically identical and should be combined and we're different from Protestantism and capitalism, which are also ontologically identical (and) it can be combined. Ula Ojiaku:  Is this available in the public domain? Dave Snowden:  I doubt it. I think it actually got me onto a heresy trial at one point, but that but I would still say that. Ula Ojiaku:  That's amazing. Can we then move to the framework that Cynefin framework, how did it evolve into what we know it as today? Dave Snowden:  I'll do a high-level summary, but I wrote it up at length in the book and I didn't know I was writing for the book. The book was a surprise that they put together for me. I thought that was just writing an extended blog post. It started when I was working in IBM is it originates from the work of Max Borrasso was my mentor for years who tragically died early. But he was looking at abstraction, codification and diffusion. We did a fair amount of work together, I took two of those aspects and started to look at informal and formal communities in IBM, and its innovation. And some of the early articles on Cynefin, certainly the early ones with the five domains come from that period. And at that time, we had access labels. Yeah. And then then complexity theory came into it. So, it shifted into being a complexity framework. And it stayed … The five domains were fairly constant for a fairly long period of time, they changed their names a bit. The central domain I knew was important, but didn't have as much prominence as it does now. And then I introduced liminality, partly driven by agile people, actually, because they could they couldn't get the concept there were dynamics and domains. So, they used to say things like, ‘look, Scrum is a dynamic. It's a way of shifting complex to complicated' and people say ‘no, the scrum guide said it's about complex.' And you think, ‘oh, God, Stacey has a lot to answer for' but… Ula Ojiaku: Who`s Stacey? Dave Snowden:  Ralph Stacey. So, he was the guy originally picked up by Ken when he wrote the Scrum Guide… Ula Ojiaku:  Right. Okay. Dave Snowden:  Stacey believes everything's complex, which is just wrong, right? So, either way, Cynefin evolved with the liminal aspects. And then the last resolution last year, which is… kind of completes Cynefin to be honest, there's some refinements… was when we realized that the central domain was confused, or operatic. And that was the point where you started. So, you didn't start by putting things into the domain, you started in the operatic. And then you moved aspects of things into the different domains. So that was really important. And it got picked up in Agile, ironically, by the XP community. So, I mean, I was in IT most of my life, I was one of the founders of the DSDM Consortium, and then moved sideways from that, and was working in counterterrorism and other areas, always you're working with technology, but not in the Agile movement. Cynefin is actually about the same age as Agile, it started at the same time. And the XP community in London invited me in, and I still think Agile would have been better if it had been built on XP, not Scrum. But it wouldn't have scaled with XP, I mean, without Scrum it would never have scaled it. And then it got picked up. And I think one of the reasons it got picked up over Stacey is, it said order is possible. It didn't say everything is complex. And virtually every Agile method I know of value actually focuses on making complex, complicated. Ula Ojiaku:  Yes. Dave Snowden:  And that's its power. What they're… what is insufficient of, and this is where we've been working is what I call pre-Scrum techniques. Techniques, which define what should go into that process. Right, because all of the Agile methods still tend to be a very strong manufacturing metaphor - manufacturing ideas. So, they assume somebody will tell them what they have to produce. And that actually is a bad way of thinking about IT. Technology needs to co-evolve. And users can't articulate what they want, because they don't know what technology can do. Ula Ojiaku:  True. But are you saying… because in Agile fundamentally, it's really about making sure there's alignment as well that people are working on the right thing per time, but you're not telling them how to do it? Dave Snowden:  Well, yes and no - all right. I mean, it depends what you're doing. I mean, some Agile processes, yes. But if you go through the sort of safe brain remain processes, very little variety within it, right? And self-organization happens within the context of a user executive and retrospectives. Right, so that's its power. And, but if you look at it, it took a really good technique called time-boxing, and it reduced it to a two-week sprint. Now, that's one aspect of time boxing. I mean, I've got a whole series of blog posts next week on this, because time boxing is a hugely valuable technique. It says there's minimal deliverable project, and maximum deliverable product and a minimal level of resource and a maximum level of resource. And the team commits to deliver on the date. Ula Ojiaku:  To accurate quality… to a quality standard. Dave Snowden:  Yeah, so basically, you know that the worst case, you'll get the minimum product at the maximum cost, but you know, you'll get it on that date. So, you can deal with it, alright. And that's another technique we've neglected. We're doing things which force high levels of mutation and requirements over 24 hours, before they get put into a Scrum process. Because if you just take what users want, you know, there's been insufficient co-evolution with the technology capability. And so, by the time you deliver it, the users will probably realize they should have asked for something different anyway. Ula Ojiaku:  So, does this tie in with the pre-Scrum techniques you mentioned earlier? If so, can you articulate that? Dave Snowden:  So, is to say different methods in different places. And that's again, my opposition to things like SAFe, to a lesser extent LeSS, and so on, right, is they try and put everything into one bloody big flow diagram. Yeah. And that's messy. All right? Well, it's a recipe, not a chef. What the chef does is they put different ingredients together in different combinations. So, there's modularity of knowledge, but it's not forced into a linear process. So, our work… and we just got an open space and open source and our methods deliberately, right, in terms of the way it works, is I can take Scrum, and I can reduce it to its lowest coherent components, like a sprint or retrospective. I can combine those components with components for another method. So, I can create Scrum as an assembly of components, I can take those components compared with other components. And that way, you get novelty. So, we're then developing components which sit before traditional stuff. Like for example, triple eight, right? This was an old DSDM method. So, you ran a JAD sessions and Scrum has forgotten about JAD. JAD is a really…  joint application design… is a really good set of techniques - they're all outstanding. You throw users together with coders for two days, and you force out some prototypes. Yeah, that latching on its own would, would transform agile, bringing that back in spades, right? We did is we do an eight-hour JAD session say, in London, and we pass it on to a team in Mumbai. But we don't tell them what the users ask for. They just get the prototype. And they can do whatever they want with it for eight hours. And then they hand it over to a team in San Francisco, who can do whatever they want with it in eight hours. And it comes back. And every time I've run this, the user said, ‘God, I wouldn't have thought of that, can I please, have it?' So, what you're doing is a limited life cycle -  you get the thing roughly defined, then you allow it to mutate without control, and then you look at the results and decide what you want to do. And that's an example of pre-scrum technique, that is a lot more economical than systems and analysts and user executives and storyboards. And all those sorts of things. Yeah. Ula Ojiaku:  Well, I see what you mean, because it seems like the, you know, the JAD - the joint application design technique allows for emergent design, and you shift the decision making closer to the people who are at the forefront. And to an extent my understanding of, you know, Scrum … I mean, some agile frameworks - that's also what they promote… Dave Snowden:  Oh, they don't really don't. alright. They picked up Design Thinking which is quite interesting at the moment. If you if you look at Agile and Design Thinking. They're both at the end of their life cycles. Ula Ojiaku:  Why do you say that? Dave Snowden:  Because they're being commodified. The way you know, something is coming to the end of its life cycle is when it becomes highly commodified. So, if you look at it, look at what they are doing the moment, the Double Diamond is now a series of courses with certificates. And I mean, Agile started with bloody certificates, which is why it's always been slightly diverse in the way it works. I mean, this idea that you go on a three-day course and get a certificate, you read some slides every year and pay some money and get another certificate is fundamentally corrupt. But most of the Agile business is built on it, right? I mean, I've got three sets of methods after my name. But they all came from yearlong or longer courses certified by university not from tearing apart a course. Yeah, or satisfying a peer group within a very narrow cultural or technical definition of competence. So, I think yeah, and you can see that with Design Thinking. So, it's expert ideation, expert ethnography. And it still falls into that way of doing things. Yeah. And you can see it, people that are obsessed with running workshops that they facilitate. And that's the problem. I mean, the work we're doing on citizen engagement is actually… has no bloody facilitators in it. As all the evidence is that the people who turn up are culturally biased about their representative based opinions. And the same is true if you want to look at unarticulated needs, you can't afford to have the systems analysts finding them because they see them from their perspective. And this is one of one science, right? You did not see what you do not expect to see. We know that, alright? So, you're not going to see outliers. And so, the minute you have an expert doing something, it's really good - where you know, the bounds of the expertise, cover all the possibilities, and it's really dangerous. Well, that's not the case. Ula Ojiaku:  So, could you tell me a bit more about the unfacilitated sessions you mentioned earlier? Dave Snowden:  They're definitely not sessions, so we didn't like what were triggers at moments. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Dave Snowden:  So, defining roles. So, for example, one of the things I would do and have done in IT, is put together, young, naive, recently graduated programmer with older experienced tester or software architect. So, somebody without any… Ula Ojiaku:  Prejudice or pre-conceived idea... Dave Snowden:  … preferably with a sort of grandparent age group between them as well. I call it, the grandparents syndrome - grandparents say things to their grandchildren they won't tell their children and vice versa. If you maximize the age gap, there's actually freer information flow because there's no threat in the process. And then we put together with users trained to talk to IT people. So, in a month's time, I'll publish that as a training course. So, training users to talk to IT people is more economical than trying to train IT people to understand users. Ula Ojiaku:  To wrap up then, based on what you said, you know, about Cynefin, and you know, the wonderful ideas behind Cynefin. How can leaders in organizations in any organization apply these and in how they make sense of the world and, you know, take decisions? Dave Snowden:  Well, if there's actually a sensible way forward now, so we've just published the field guide on managing complexity.  Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Dave Snowden:  And that is actually, it's a sort of ‘Chef's guide'. It has four stages: assess, adapt, exert, transcend, and within that it has things you could do. So, it's not a list of qualities, it's a list of practical things you should go and do tomorrow, and those things we're building at the moment with a lot of partners, because we won't try and control this; this needs to be open. Here's an assessment process that people will go through to decide where they are. So that's going to be available next week on our website. Ula Ojiaku:  Oh, fantastic! Dave Snowden:  For the initial registration.  Other than that, and there's a whole body of stuff on how to use Cynefin. And as I said, we just open source on the methods. So, the Wiki is open source. These… from my point of view, we're now at the stage where the market is going to expand very quickly. And to be honest, I, you know, I've always said traditionally use cash waiver as an example of this. The reason that Agile scaled around Scrum is he didn't make it an elite activity, which XP was. I love the XP guys, but they can't communicate with ordinary mortals. Yeah. It takes you about 10 minutes to tune into the main point, and even you know the field, right. And he (Jeff Sutherland) made the Scrum Guide open source. And that way it's great, right. And I think that that's something which people just don't get strategic with. They, in early stages, you should keep things behind firewalls. When the market is ready to expand, you take the firewalls away fast. Because I mean, getting behind firewalls initially to maintain coherence so they don't get diluted too quickly, or what I call “hawks being made into pigeons”. Yeah. But the minute the market is starting to expand, that probably means you've defined it so you release the firewall so the ideas spread very quickly, and you accept the degree of diversity on it. So that's the reason we put the Wiki. Ula Ojiaku:  Right. So, are there any books that you would recommend, for anyone who wants to learn more about what you've talked about so far. Dave Snowden:  You would normally produce the theory book, then the field book, but we did it the other way around. So, Mary and I are working on three to five books, which will back up the Field Guide. Ula Ojiaku:  Is it Mary Boone? Dave Snowden:  Mary Boone. She knows how to write to the American managers, which I don't, right… without losing integrity. So that's coming, right. If you go onto the website, I've listed all the books I read. I don't think… there are some very, very good books around complexity, but they're deeply specialized, they're academic. Gerard's book is just absolutely brilliant but it's difficult to understand if you don't have a philosophy degree. And there are some awfully tripe books around complexity - nearly all of the popular books I've seen, I wouldn't recommend. Yeah. Small Groups of Complex Adaptive Systems is probably quite a good one that was published about 20 years ago. Yeah, but that we got a book list on the website. So, I would look at that. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Thank you so much for that. Do you have any ask of the audience and how can they get to you? Dave Snowden:  We've open-sourced the Wiki, you know, to create a critical mass, I was really pleased we have 200 people volunteered to help populate it. So, we get the all the methods in the field guide them. And they're actively working at that at the moment, right, and on a call with them later. And to be honest, I've done 18-hour days, the last two weeks, but 8 hours of each of those days has been talking to the methods with a group of people Academy 5, that's actually given me a lot of energy, because it's huge. So, get involved, I think it's the best way… you best understand complexity by getting the principles and then practicing it. And the key thing I'll leave us with is the metaphor. I mentioned it a few times - a recipe book user has a recipe, and they follow it. And if they don't have the right ingredients, and if they don't have the right equipment, they can't operate. Or they say it's not ‘true Agile'. A chef understands the theory of cooking and has got served in apprenticeship. So, their fingers know how to do things. And that's… we need… a downside.. more chefs, which is the combination of theory and practice. And the word empirical is hugely corrupted in the Agile movement. You know, basically saying, ‘this worked for me' or ‘it worked for me the last three times' is the most dangerous way of moving forward. Ula Ojiaku:  Because things change and what worked yesterday might not work Dave Snowden:  And you won't be aware of what worked or didn't work and so on. Ula Ojiaku:  And there's some bias in that. Wouldn't you say? Dave Snowden:  We've got an attentional blindness if you've got Ula Ojiaku:  Great. And Dave, where can people find you? Are you on social media? Dave Snowden:  Cognitive. Yeah, social media is @snowded. Yeah. LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter. Two websites – the Cognitive Edge website, which is where I blog, and there's a new Cynefin Center website now, which is a not-for-profit arm. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. All these would be in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time, Dave. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. Dave Snowden:  Okay. Thanks a lot.

In this episode, Mon-Chaio and Andy dive into the intriguing concept of 'Alien Chess' and its relation to leadership and organizational diagnosis. They reflect on its connection with the four spheres of knowledge discussed in the previous episode and critically analyze its validity as a system within organizations. They draw parallels from the Cynefin framework, extreme programming, and real-world applications, debating whether alien chess is a useful model or leads to high-functioning, learned helplessness. Join the discussion on the balance between strategic planning and adaptable responses in leadership and technology sectors.ReferencesThe Resilience of Alien ChessCynefin frameworkThe Parable of Alien Chess

What does it mean to be a flexible leader? In this episode of Troubleshooting Agile, we welcome Kevin Eikenberry to talk about complex vs complicated situations, how to experiment rather than sticking to rigid policies, and his new book ‘Flexible Leadership' Links: - Kevin Eikenberry: http://kevineikenberry.com and http://kevineikenberry.com/gift - Flexible Leadership https://kevineikenberry.com/flexible - Cynefin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework - Naive Realism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism -------------------------------------------------- You'll find free videos and practice material, plus our book Agile Conversations, at agileconversations.com And we'd love to hear any thoughts, ideas, or feedback you have about the show: email us at info@agileconversations.com -------------------------------------------------- About Your Hosts Douglas Squirrel and Jeffrey Fredrick joined forces at TIM Group in 2013, where they studied and practised the art of management through difficult conversations. Over a decade later, they remain united in their passion for growing profitable organisations through better communication. Squirrel is an advisor, author, keynote speaker, coach, and consultant, and he's helped over 300 companies of all sizes make huge, profitable improvements in their culture, skills, and processes. You can find out more about his work here: douglassquirrel.com/index.html Jeffrey is Vice President of Engineering at ION Analytics, Organiser at CITCON, the Continuous Integration and Testing Conference, and is an accomplished author and speaker. You can connect with him here: www.linkedin.com/in/jfredrick/

Jason Schulist, Executive Director of the Fox Valley Data Exchange, brought his extensive problem-solving experience to the People Solve Problems podcast hosted by Jamie Flinchbaugh. With over 30 years of experience across construction, automotive, utility, and paper industries, Jason shared valuable insights about understanding and addressing different types of problems. At Fox Valley Data Exchange, Jason works to make community data accessible across three counties in Northeast Wisconsin. The organization helps stakeholders understand how people thrive by examining factors like meaningful work, wealth, physical health, and transportation. In addition to this role, Jason leads the Generative Local Community Institute, focusing on creating economic models that help people flourish. Jason introduced listeners to the Cynefin model, which provides a framework for categorizing problems into clear, complicated, complex, and chaotic domains. He emphasized that different types of problems require different approaches and tools. For example, while manufacturing problems might have clear cause-and-effect relationships, community issues often fall into the complex domain where patterns shift and traditional solutions may not work. Drawing from his experience addressing poverty in his community, Jason shared a compelling case study. His team discovered that earning $18 per hour represented a crucial threshold for stability in their area. They identified three key factors that helped people overcome poverty: some post-secondary education, having or expecting a child, and maintaining consistent employment for six to twelve months. Using this information, they set a goal to double the rate at which people moved out of poverty, from 3.5% to 7%. The project involved 27 parallel experiments, demonstrating Jason's approach to complex adaptive problems. One successful initiative identified eight certification programs - dubbed the "Elite Eight" - that consistently led to stable employment above the target wage. Another successful experiment involved connecting with people who were just a few classes short of completing their certifications, helping them finish their education and secure better-paying jobs. He emphasized the importance of collaboration in community problem-solving. He highlighted the success of CI Squared (Continuous Improvement times Community Improvement), a volunteer group of more than 55 continuous improvement professionals who have participated in over 80 interactions with nonprofits. These volunteers apply their professional skills to help community organizations address challenges and develop strategic plans. Throughout the conversation, he demonstrated how different problem-solving approaches can be adapted and combined to address complex community challenges. His work shows that while some problems can be solved directly, others - particularly in the complex domain - need to be addressed through iteration, observation, and pattern recognition. To learn more about Jason's work, visit www.fvdex.org or connect with him on LinkedIn.

Cómo dijo Isaac Newton todos estamos subidos a hombros de gigantes. Y estos son mis gigantes: Clayton Christensen: estrategia JTBD C. F. Kurtz y D. J. Snowden: Cynefin W. Chan Kim y Renée Mauborgne: Estrategia de los océanos azules Hamilton Helmer: Las 7 fuerzas de Helmer Richard Rumelt : The Kermel Donella Meadows: Thinking in systems Si quieres saber cómo y cuando los uso y cuáles son los pros y contras de sus modelos estratégicos, no te pierdas el pódcast. Me encantaría saber quienes son tus gigantes. Si quieres sentir la alegría de tener un plan claro que seguir suscríbete a leticiadelcorral.com  

In this engaging episode, I welcome back Kevin Eikenberry, a repeat guest on the show, to discuss his upcoming book, "Flexible Leadership: Navigate Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence," set for release in early 2025. We explore the critical role of confidence in leadership, especially amidst today's chaotic and fast-paced world. Kevin shares insights on the importance of self-awareness and the often-overlooked value of confidence in leadership development. We delve into the concept of sense-making and the challenges of adapting to a world that is no longer as predictable as it once was. Kevin introduces the Cynefin framework, a tool for understanding different contexts in leadership, and discusses the balance between flexibility and having a strong backbone. We also touch on the significance of purpose in guiding decisions and fostering commitment over mere compliance.

In this episode of The Brand Called You, Prof Dave J Snowden, Director & Founder of The Cynefin Centre, discusses the Cynefin framework and its application in organizational leadership. He explains how the framework categorizes situations into ordered, complex, and chaotic states, comparing them to the physical states of solids, liquids, and gases. Dave explores the evolution of sense-making approaches and their roots in natural science, emphasizing the importance of understanding complexity in decision-making. He shares insights about the differences between human and machine capabilities in problem-solving, particularly in the context of AI.  About Prof Dave J Snowden Prof Dave J Snowden is the Director & Founder of The Cynefin Centre. He works on the application of natural sciences to social systems through the development of methods and the SenseMaker® software suite. In 2008 he won an "Outstanding Practitioner-Oriented Publication in OB" award for a Harvard Business Review article on Cynefin. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tbcy/support

Why do software gurus keep talking about the Cynefin Framework? What is it? How is it even pronounced? In this episode of Inspect & Adapt, Construx puts many brains on the topic with Mark Griffin, Jenny Stuart, Steve Tockey, and Earl Beede making the link between Cynefin and doing actual software development work. They cover where Cynefin is best applied and where this sense-making system just doesn't make sense.

In this episode, we dive deep into the mycelial network with world-renowned educator and ethnomycologist Darren le Baron. Known for his transformative Shroomshop Masterclasses and groundbreaking work in mushroom cultivation, Darren shares his journey from growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms to pioneering the UK's first accredited Mycology and Mushroom Cultivation course for schools and at-risk youth.We explore how ancient fungi medicine traditions intersect with modern psychedelic research, the role of fungi in community empowerment, and the potential of mushrooms to heal both individuals and ecosystems.  Darren also discusses his innovative approach to permaculture and organic horticulture, weaving together sustainability, education and holistic community building.Join us for a conversation that blends science, spirituality, and practical wisdom to illuminate how "we are mushrooms having a human experience".The music in this episode is from Bonnie Medicine and Cynefin.  Reach our if you would like to gift your music to these rooted stories. Deepen Your Roots for a year-long slow spiral of Macy's 'The Work That Reconnects, weaving an animistic, embodied Deep Ecology into finding and tending your calling toward stewardship. Explore our world and work at rootedhealing.org and follow along on instagram.Access exclusive content at Patreon.Support the show

On this week's Salience Podcast, we explore anthropology, sensemaking and complexity.Our guest is Ellie Snowden. For those familiar with the Cynefin framework and its developer Dave Snowden, well Ellie is his daughter. Apart from an enormous requirement for personal resilience being Dave's daughter, Ellie has developed her own deep competency in the field of anthro-complexity and sensemaking. Ellie leads the Cynefin company's work on health and healthcare with her experience of supporting centre members in their use of SenseMaker® and surrounding methods. In this episode, we talk about the importance of narratives in expanding our world view, and how surfacing multiple voices can help cultivate culture. For more information about The Salience Podcast and Frontline Mind please visit our website at https://www.frontlinemind.com/the-salience-podcast/ You can also sign up for our newsletter here https://frontlinemind.us17.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=ff181d12c77d7cea5f19a2c48&id=fd7357f614

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!What happens when a military intelligence officer turns tech entrepreneur? That's what we uncover with Jonathan Hansing, co-founder of Walabi, as he shares his intriguing journey from the US Army to shaping the future of marketing analytics. Listeners will discover the surprising parallels between military intelligence and B2B marketing, as Jonathan elaborates on his experiences at Narrative Science, Tableau, and Salesforce. Together, we navigate the potential and pitfalls of data-driven methodologies in the world of AI and marketing, as Jonathan humorously admits to being an "AI guy who hates other AI guys."Marketing and sales teams often face significant challenges with data integration and visualization, and Jonathan brings to light the steep learning curves associated with platforms like Tableau. Our discussion explores alternative tools that simplify these processes and introduces the Cynefin framework as a strategic ally for marketers. This sense-making model helps differentiate between complicated and complex problems, offering strategies to align marketing efforts and secure leadership buy-in. We provide real-world examples of how this can improve communication and understanding among business leaders across diverse domains.The future of marketing is rapidly evolving, especially with AI's transformative impact, and we emphasize the necessity of rapid experimentation. Jonathan and I explore how being data-driven is crucial, yet it's equally important to embrace failure as part of the learning journey. We discuss the concept of an experimentation budget as a growth lever, the scientific approach to marketing, and the art of staying comfortable with uncertainty. By the end of our conversation, listeners will be equipped with strategies to navigate the dynamic landscape of AI-influenced marketing while spreading their bets across multiple channels.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

As you will have heard in previous episodes for example with Ray Ison, Mette Böll and others, there is a lot of interest currently in systems thinking approaches in education as a key competency for our young people. But what systems thinking means once you scratch the surface is a question that we need to ask. And if we're supporting our young people (as well as teachers and leaders) to navigate complexity, Dave - from his background in Anthro-Complexity (https://cynefin.io/wiki/Anthro-complexity) - will definitely have something to say about that!  Dave is the creator of the Cynefin Framework (https://thecynefin.co/about-us/about-cynefin-framework/) and originated the design of SenseMaker®, the world's first distributed ethnography tool. He is the lead author of Managing complexity (and chaos) in times of crisis: A field guide for decision-makers, a shared effort between the Joint Research Centre (JRC), the European Commission's science and knowledge service, and the Cynefin Centre. He divides his time between two roles: founder and Chief Scientific Officer of The Cynefin Company and the founder and Director of the Cynefin Centre. His work is international in nature and covers government and industry looking at complex issues relating to strategy and organisational decision-making.  He has pioneered a science-based approach to organisations drawing on anthropology, neuroscience, and complex adaptive systems theory. Using natural science as a constraint on the understanding of social systems avoids many of the issues associated with inductive or case-based approaches to research.  Dave holds positions as an extraordinary Professor at the Universities of Pretoria and Stellenbosch as well as visiting Professor at the University of Hull. He has held similar positions at Bangor University, Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Canberra University, the University of Warwick and The University of Surrey. He held the position of senior fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies at Nanyang University and the Civil Service College in Singapore during a sabbatical period in Nanyang. Social Links Great thinking on the Cynefin blog: https://thecynefin.co/our-thinking/ LinkedIn: @dave-snowden - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-snowden-2a93b/ X: https://twitter.com/snowded

Product Management is not about frameworks. Yes, using some frameworks that fit well in your situation can save us a lot of time by organizing our thoughts and allowing us to collaborate better.And before there were frameworks, there were mindsets.In this episode we are talking about a couple of mindset that help product managers and anyone who is building products to align better with the chaotic nature of our work.Our guest on the show is Assaph Mehr, a product and people leader. He is currently a Senior Product Manager of AI at Squiz, a Product Management Advisor & Mentor at My Mentor Path, a thought provoking blogger, and an author (or several ward-winning stories of Togas, Daggers, and Magic series - for lovers of Dark Urban-Fantasy Detectives and Ancient Rome!).On the episode, Assaph shared with us two of those mindsets - VUCA and Cynefin, and how they relate to our jobs as product people.Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Assaph:How he got to product managementHis experience building AI products, and some of the challenges they raiseWhat are these two mindsets all about (and how to pronounce Cynefin!)How to understand, and harness Volatility, Uncertainty, Complexity and Ambiguity (VUCA)The balance between all of these, and how each of our domains can have a different mixIs it possible to quantify things like uncertainty or complexity?How he defines strategyThe 5 domains of Cynefin, and the importance of fitting our problem to the right domainCan Product Managers impact their orgs to think in these ways?Can product job seekers test organizational fit by probing to see if they have the right mindset?And so much more…You can connect with Assaph at:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/assaph/ Blog: https://assaph.substack.comBlog post about Cynefin and VUCA: https://assaph.substack.com/p/cynefin-and-vuca * You can find the podcast's page, and connect with Matt and Moshe on Linkedin:Product for Product Podcast - linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcastMatt Green - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/Moshe Mikanovsky - linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky/ Note: any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests,  and do not represent the products mentioned in any way.Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Today, my guest is Dave Snowden, a leading expert in complexity theory and knowledge management. Dave is the creator of the Cynefin Framework, which is a tool for understanding challenges and helping us make decisions within the right context. His work is international in nature. It covers government and industry, looking at complex issues relating to strategy and organizational decision-making. He is a popular and passionate keynote speaker on a range of topics, and he's well-known for his pragmatic cynicism - and you will hear that come through as you listen to this episode. I wish I had come across Dave's work earlier in my career because I think I'd have made some different career choices. In particular, his 2007 Harvard Business Review article with Mary Boone is excellent. It was on the cover of the November edition of the HBR and won the Academy of Management Award for Best Paper of that year. In this episode, we dive into the nuances of decision-making in complex environments. He walks us through the Cynefin Framework and how it helps us understand the challenges at hand. Dave shares insights into how organizations can avoid the pitfalls of traditional decision-making approaches that often oversimplify complex issues. We also explore the role of narrative in making sense of complexity and how his work with something called SenseMaker, supports capturing and interpreting diverse perspectives. If you're interested in how to navigate complexity and make better decisions in uncertain times, this episode is a must-listen. Show notes: Dave Snowden The Cynefin Framework Dave and Mary Boone's 2007 HBR Article, “A Leader's Framework for Decision-Making” SenseMaker Estuarine Mapping EU Field Guide to Managing Complexity (and Chaos) in Times of Crisis Wardley Maps - A strategic mapping technique that helps organizations understand and adapt to their competitive landscape. Gary Klein's Pre-mortem Max Boisot's I-Space London taxi drivers' “The Knowledge” Taylorism Agile Hawthorne effect Cynefin's ‘risk matrix' Abductive thinking Dave on algorithmic induction Dave on AI: “anthropomorphising idiot savants” _ _ _ _ Like what you heard? Subscribe to The Decision-Making Studio Podcast Sign up for our Decision Navigators Course https://thedecisionmaking.studio/        

“Coupling is an inherent part of system design, not something that is necessarily good or evil. How we design coupling can take our system either towards complexity or towards modularity." Vladik Khononov returns to the podcast to discuss his latest book “Balancing Coupling in Software Design”. In this episode, Vlad revisits the essence of coupling, a term often not fully understood, and explores its implications on software complexity and modularity. Vlad introduces the concept of shared lifecycle and shared knowledge, revealing the hidden dependencies that can undermine even the most well-intentioned designs. He also explains complexity through the lens of the Cynefin framework and delves into the differences between essential and accidental complexity. One of the episode's highlights is Vlad's unique framework for evaluating coupling. He introduces the three dimensions of integration strength, distance, and volatility, providing a practical model for assessing and balancing coupling in software design. He also challenges traditional definitions of modularity, emphasizing the importance of knowledge boundaries. Whether you're a seasoned tech lead or an aspiring software engineer, this episode offers invaluable insights into building maintainable and modular software systems. It will leave you with a deeper appreciation for the delicate balance between coupling and complexity.   Listen out for: Writing about Coupling - [00:03:28] Coupling - [00:06:09] Shared Lifecycle & Knowledge - [00:08:17] Cynefin - [00:12:28] Essential vs Accidental Complexity - [00:19:00] Modularity - [00:22:45] Abstraction & Knowledge Boundary - [00:29:04] 3 Dimensions of Coupling - [00:36:25] Balancing Coupling - [00:58:11] 3 Tech Lead Wisdom - [01:02:30] _____ Vladik Khononov's BioVlad Khononov is a software engineer with extensive industry experience, working for companies large and small in roles ranging from webmaster to chief architect. His core areas of expertise are distributed systems and software design. Vlad consults with companies to make sense of their business domains, untangle monoliths, and tackle complex architectural challenges. Vlad maintains an active media career as a public speaker and author. Prior to Balancing Coupling in Software Design, he authored the best-selling O'Reilly book Learning Domain-Driven Design. He is a sought-after keynote speaker, presenting on topics such as domain-driven design, microservices, and software architecture in general. Follow Vladik: LinkedIn – linkedin.com/in/vladikk Twitter / X – @vladikk

In the autumn of 1996 in Palo Alto, Dan Newman had a career-defining epiphany: facilitation is playing other people's games with your own rules. It's something that has stayed with him on his journey from consultant to facilitator, as he solves complex organisational problems by asking: how are their rules preventing them from winning?We cover a lot of ground from Dan's storied career in this brilliant conversation, dancing from the debate of the neutral facilitator, to cultural communication traits, the psychology of music, and why he will happily fine his clients for breaking the rules!Full to the brim with facilitation lessons to learn, try and apply yourself.Find out about:Tips, insights and anecdotes from Dan's nearly 30 year careerThe key differences between the role of the facilitator and the consultantHow to rebuild people's ‘finite games' into ‘infinite games', with a positive-sum outcomeHow to use Dave Snowden's Cynefin framework to aid decision-making and de-complexify problemsHow to take a company out of their culture to see new perspectivesDon't miss the next episode: subscribe to the show with your favourite podcast player.And download the free 1-page summary, so you can always have the key points of this episode to hand.Links:Watch the video recording of this episode on YouTube.Dan's BookConnect to Dan Newman:LinkedInWebsiteSupport the Show.**Click here to navigate through all episodes via this interactive podcast map.**If you're inspired by our podcast and crave similar conversations, consider joining Dr Myriam Hadnes' NeverDoneBefore Facilitation Community. **If you're keen to master the art of facilitation, discover our expert-led live, online Facilitation Courses at the NDB Academy. **If you enjoy the show, consider a one-off donation and contribute to the ongoing costs of running the podcast.

Sonja Blignaut is a complexity expert. That might not sound relevant to incident response in reliability engineering. But it is!Our systems are becoming more complex and so are the resulting incidents.Learning about complexity can help reliability folk go into an incident with less anxiety, which we'll explore in this episode.We'll explore the causes of complexity in incidents and how the Cynefin framework classifies incidents.We'll also deep dive into the concept of complexity itself and dispel a common issue where it gets mixed up with complicatedness.About SonjaSonja is a co-founder of Complexity Fit and founder of More Beyond focusing on helping teams build capacity for sensemaking, collaboration, and wayfinding.She has a background in programming from her early career as a meteorologist, having worked in C and Fortran, and then progressing to working as a web developer.You can connect with Sonja to learn more about complexity via LinkedIn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit read.srepath.com

Milica Lubinic: Product Owner Anti-Pattern, The Renamed Project Manager Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Balancing Involvement and Authority in Product Ownership Milica highlights how great Product Owners involve their teams in decision-making while maintaining responsibility for final decisions. She discusses tools for prioritization and the importance of structured approaches to processing team input. Scrum Masters can help PO's balance ownership and shared decision making with the teams and stakeholders. The Bad Product Owner: The Renamed Project Manager Milica discusses a common anti-pattern in Product Ownership: simply renaming project managers as Product Owners, without role clarity or team involvement. She shares tips for distributing cognition between PO's and their teams. She also emphasizes the importance of clear role definitions and external training for PO's, stakeholders, and teams.    [IMAGE HERE] Are you having trouble helping the team work well with their Product Owner? We've put together a course to help you work on the collaboration team-product owner. You can find it at bit.ly/coachyourpo. 18 modules, 8+ hours of modules with tools and techniques that you can use to help teams and PO's collaborate.   About Milica Lubinic Milica is a Mom and Professional and Organizational Coach who is all about dealing with complexity, whether it's child development or organizational/team/individual transformation and growth. She found her true calling in the world of Agile, Cynefin, and Progressive organizational cultures. Creating safe spaces for innovation, nurturing trust, and sparking engagement is her true passion. You can link with Milica Lubinic on LinkedIn.

Milica Lubinic: Measuring Psychological Safety in Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. In this episode, Milica emphasizes the importance of team trust and psychological safety, which are difficult to measure. She suggests using surveys to initiate meaningful conversations and reflections about these critical aspects.  Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Solution-Focused Retrospectives Milica introduces her favorite retrospective format, focusing on future goals and leveraging existing strengths. This approach contrasts with the root cause analysis engineers often prefer, offering more actionable solutions and a variety of choices. This approach is based on insights from Solutions-focused Coaching.   [IMAGE HERE] Retrospectives, planning sessions, vision workshops, we are continuously helping teams learn about how to collaborate in practice! In this Actionable Agile Tools book, Jeff Campbell shares some of the tools he's learned over a decade of coaching Agile Teams. The pragmatic coaching book you need, right now! Buy Actionable Agile Tools on Amazon, or directly from the author, and supercharge your facilitation toolbox!    About Milica Lubinic Milica is a Mom and Professional and Organizational Coach who is all about dealing with complexity, whether it's child development or organizational/team/individual transformation and growth. She found her true calling in the world of Agile, Cynefin, and Progressive organizational cultures. Creating safe spaces for innovation, nurturing trust, and sparking engagement is her true passion. You can link with Milica Lubinic on LinkedIn.

Milica Lubinic: Consent-based Decision-making for Agile Organizations Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Milica shares insights from her experience in a company undergoing Agile transformation. She highlights the misalignment in decision-making processes and the need for consent-based decision-making. By facilitating retrospectives with leadership and creating guides for new decision-making approaches, she navigated through various challenges.    [IMAGE HERE] As Scrum Master we work with change continuously! Do you have your own change framework that provides the guidance, and queues you need when working with change? The Lean Change Management framework is a fully defined, lean-startup inspired change framework that can be used as the backbone of any change process! You can buy Lean Change Management the book at Amazon. Also available in French, Spanish, German and Portuguese.   About Milica Lubinic Milica is a Mom and Professional and Organizational Coach who is all about dealing with complexity, whether it's child development or organizational/team/individual transformation and growth. She found her true calling in the world of Agile, Cynefin, and Progressive organizational cultures. Creating safe spaces for innovation, nurturing trust, and sparking engagement is her true passion. You can link with Milica Lubinic on LinkedIn.

Milica Lubinic: How to Foster Long-lasting Change for Agile Teams Without Micromanagement Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Milica tells the story of a team's struggle with sustainable change. Despite good intentions, the team lead's constant reminders about incomplete actions led to a lack of ownership. She emphasizes the importance of developing habits for sustainable improvement and allowing teams to maintain ownership of changes. How can teams foster long-lasting change without micromanagement? Featured Book of the Week: The Power of Vulnerability by Brené Brown Milica discusses Brené Brown's "The Power of Vulnerability" (audiobook) and how it transformed her understanding of belonging versus fitting in. This distinction helped her foster true belonging in her teams, where members felt safe to be themselves and contribute their best. This book addresses a question that is critical for Scrum Masters: How can we create environments that nurture genuine belonging?   [IMAGE HERE] Do you wish you had decades of experience? Learn from the Best Scrum Masters In The World, Today! The Tips from the Trenches - Scrum Master edition audiobook includes hours of audio interviews with SM's that have decades of experience: from Mike Cohn to Linda Rising, Christopher Avery, and many more. Super-experienced Scrum Masters share their hard-earned lessons with you. Learn those today, make your teams awesome!     About Milica Lubinic Milica is a Mom and Professional and Organizational Coach who is all about dealing with complexity, whether it's child development or organizational/team/individual transformation and growth. She found her true calling in the world of Agile, Cynefin, and Progressive organizational cultures. Creating safe spaces for innovation, nurturing trust, and sparking engagement is her true passion. You can link with Milica Lubinic on LinkedIn.

Milica Lubinic: Curiosity Over Assumption, How to Enter a New Agile Team or Company Without Triggering Resistance Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. In this episode, Milica tells the story of a pivotal failure from the start of her career. She entered a company that, at first sight, already practicing scaled Scrum and aligned with Agile values. Milica was eager to contribute. However, she quickly discovered underlying taboos and a lack of true transparency. Her push for more openness led to unexpected resistance, teaching her the importance of curiosity and avoiding assumptions. Listen to learn how we can navigate the current status of Agile adoption without making premature judgments.   [IMAGE HERE] Recovering from failure, or difficult moments is a critical skill for Scrum Masters. Not only because of us, but also because the teams, and stakeholders we work with will also face these moments! We need inspiring stories to help them, and ourselves! The Bungsu Story, is an inspiring story by Marcus Hammarberg which shows how a Coach can help organizations recover even from the most disastrous situations! Learn how Marcus helped The Bungsu, a hospital in Indonesia, recover from near-bankruptcy, twice! Using Lean and Agile methods to rebuild an organization and a team! An inspiring story you need to know about! Buy the book on Amazon: The Bungsu Story - How Lean and Kanban Saved a Small Hospital in Indonesia. Twice. and Can Help You Reshape Work in Your Company.   About Milica Lubinic Milica is a Mom and Professional and Organizational Coach who is all about dealing with complexity, whether it's child development or organizational/team/individual transformation and growth. She found her true calling in the world of Agile, Cynefin, and Progressive organizational cultures. Creating safe spaces for innovation, nurturing trust, and sparking engagement is her true passion. You can link with Milica Lubinic on LinkedIn.

Jaques Smit: Sprint Goals Gone Wrong, Leadership Lessons from a Game Development Team Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Jaques shares an experience with a game development team struggling to meet their goals. Despite his efforts to implement sprint goals and keep the team accountable, he faced resistance. Apparently lost with the process of setting goals, the Product Owner (PO) stepped back, pushing Jaques to take ownership and set the goals, which further re-enforced the team's attitude of not taking ownership. Jaques reflects on the importance of coaching with an open mind and the challenges of directive leadership. He shares insights on enabling constraints and the Cynefin framework. In this episode we also refer to Clinton Keith's work as well as the #NoEstimates book.   [IMAGE HERE] Recovering from failure, or difficult moments is a critical skill for Scrum Masters. Not only because of us, but also because the teams, and stakeholders we work with will also face these moments! We need inspiring stories to help them, and ourselves! The Bungsu Story, is an inspiring story by Marcus Hammarberg which shows how a Coach can help organizations recover even from the most disastrous situations! Learn how Marcus helped The Bungsu, a hospital in Indonesia, recover from near-bankruptcy, twice! Using Lean and Agile methods to rebuild an organization and a team! An inspiring story you need to know about! Buy the book on Amazon: The Bungsu Story - How Lean and Kanban Saved a Small Hospital in Indonesia. Twice. and Can Help You Reshape Work in Your Company.   About Jaques Smit Jaques is a seasoned Agile coach and Scrum Master with extensive experience in leading and transforming teams in the game development industry. His expertise lies in fostering team collaboration, resolving conflicts, and facilitating effective retrospectives. Jaques is passionate about continuous learning and empowering teams to achieve their full potential.   You can link with Jaques Smit on LinkedIn and connect with Jaques Smit through his website.

‘Cynefin' (pr. kuh-neh-vin) is the creative vision of West Wales native folk musician, Owen Shiers. Fascinated by music and history, it aims to give a modern voice to Ceredigion's rich yet neglected cultural heritage. Starting from his home village of Capel Dewi in the Clettwr Valley and travelling through the local musical landscape, Owen has unearthed seasoned songs and stories, some never before recorded, and given them new life in the present.The result of three years of research and work, his debut album ‘Dilyn Afon' (Following a River) is distinct in its concept and ambition. From talking animals and tragic train journeys – to the musings of star-crossed lovers, farm workers and lonely vagabonds, the album provides a unique window into the past and to a vibrant oral culture of story and song – it moves, probes and reveals forgotten aspects of the tradition, whilst raising questions around our modern malaise of disconnection and rootlessness.As any of you who have listened to the podcast for a while now will know, belonging is a big theme within our work at Rooted Healing, and yet Owen roots belonging back into the true sense of Cynefin and discusses themes worth sitting with at a deep level.  Owen questions our responsibilities in the protection and revival of diversity, in the broadest ecological sense that involves culture, language and story, which is big theme that we are exploring in our online course ‘Deepen Your Roots' and at our upcoming gathering ‘Ancestral', which is the 23rd-28th July in Eryri, North Wales.  So it is especially joyful to bring Owen onto the show as we approach this time in community on home soil.Intro music by the wonderful Bonnie Medicine.Support the Show.

Paul Jarvis: Embracing the Stretch Zone, Tools for Personal and Agile Team Growth Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. In this episode, Paul introduces the "comfort - stretch - panic model" by Karl Ronker. This episode explores the necessity of stepping out of comfort to achieve personal and professional growth, emphasizing the role of the Stretch zone in challenging and expanding our capabilities. Through practical tips and insights, including the significance of a growth mindset. Paul refers to Managing for Happiness, Jurgen Appelo. Regarding change processes, Paul guides listeners on how to use experiments, spikes, and the Cynefin model to navigate and embrace change effectively. What does it truly mean to stretch beyond our comfort zones, and how can we apply these principles to foster a culture of continuous improvement and happiness? Discover tools, tips, and techniques that catalyze growth and change.   [IMAGE HERE] As Scrum Master we work with change continuously! Do you have your own change framework that provides the guidance, and queues you need when working with change? The Lean Change Management framework is a fully defined, lean-startup inspired change framework that can be used as the backbone of any change process! You can buy Lean Change Management the book at Amazon. Also available in French, Spanish, German and Portuguese.   About Paul Jarvis Paul is a seasoned Enterprise Lean Agile Coach, Trainer, RTE, and Scrum Master with a decade of experience in the FinTech sector, focusing on banking, payments, and e-commerce. Recently, he completed a 3.5-year tenure at a key player in investment banking. You can link with Paul Jarvis on LinkedIn and connect with Paul Jarvis on Twitter.

Dr. Richard Winters, Mayo Clinic's Leadership Development Program Director and author of “You're the Leader. Now What?: Leadership Lessons from Mayo Clinic,” discusses the dynamic challenges of healthcare leadership. He highlights issues like global healthcare professional shortages and emphasizes the need for teamwork amidst constant change. Dr. Richard advocates for understanding and leading diverse teams, focusing on tackling challenges such as resource scarcity and disagreements. In his book, he outlines actionable steps for leaders, promoting forward-thinking within constraints and encouraging openness to exploring varied life paths and personal fulfillment.   Key Takeaways:   [01:38] Dr. Richard is an emergency physician at Mayo Clinic who also engages in leadership programs. Despite an unconventional journey into medicine as a former punk rock skateboarder, he values the dynamic schedule of emergency medicine over standard clinic hours. Acknowledging the challenges, he emphasizes the importance of community and collaboration in providing effective emergency care. Grateful for the efforts of first responders, Dr. Richard recognizes the crucial role they play in critical situations.   [05:30] He addresses challenges in hospital practice, emphasizing global shortages of healthcare professionals. In his leadership insights, he highlights the dynamic nature of healthcare, with constant changes and teamwork requirements. Reflecting on his career, Dr. Richard notes the shift from individual care to collaborative leadership, stressing the importance of understanding and leading diverse teams in the ever-evolving healthcare landscape.   [09:42] Dr. Richard shares his book's focus which is on the challenges in healthcare leadership—scarce resources, disagreements, and the need for solutions. He advocates a forward-looking approach, urging leaders to think what they like to do given limitations. He also refers to the Cynefin  framework by David Snowden for decision-making in uncertain situations, particularly highlighting the importance of transitioning from crisis to complex environments in healthcare leadership.   [11:36] He explains the dual challenge of dealing with both well-known best practices and unknown, dynamic situations in leadership. Leaders must navigate between conventional approaches and the need to address new pressures. Dr. Richard shares the dynamic nature of leadership, especially for physician-scientist leaders, focusing the shift from trusting data to effectively conveying narratives. He highlights that leadership involves not just external adaptation, but also internal growth and the challenge of balancing authenticity with the demands of the role.   [14:40] Dr. Richard explores the liminal space in leadership, navigating dichotomies within departments, organizations, and professions. He emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between individual and collective stories, acknowledging the ever-evolving narrative in leadership. Connecting values like respect and integrity to specific behaviors, he also stresses the significance of leaders embodying organizational values in their actions. Dr. Richard explains the significance of healthcare leaders translating values into tangible behaviors to cultivate a positive organizational culture.    [21:39] He shares the challenge of aligning business and healthcare interests and emphasizes the importance of individual well-being. He critiques traditional wellness programs and advocates for a focus on psychological well-being components like purpose alignment, autonomy, personal growth, and positive relations. Dr. Richard also emphasizes the need for organizational commitment to measuring well-being as a vital sign and promoting a culture that values collective decision-making, autonomy, and purpose alignment.    [29:04] Dr. Richard stresses the importance of being willing to explore different paths in life, while encouraging leaders and individuals to consider alternative options. He also focuses on the need for open conversations about personal fulfillment, even if it means exploring unconventional paths like opening a surf shop in a cold climate. Dr. Richard uses the metaphor of a garden to illustrate that humans are not confined to one place and can find fulfillment in different areas.    [31:51] He reflects on the commonalities of change across various industries, acknowledging the profound transformations driven by technology and AI. He emphasizes the ongoing inflection point in different sectors, marked by consolidations, evolving job roles, and the integration of data. Dr. Richard also expresses excitement about the potential opportunities in healthcare due to increased data sharing and innovative leadership approaches. He gives focus on the importance of leaders challenging tradition, being bold, and skillfully guiding organizations through change.   [34:15] Dr. Richard also reflects on the evolving landscape of healthcare, giving focus on the significant advancements driven by AI and technology. He acknowledges the challenges of navigating a heavily regulated industry and addresses the need for regulatory adaptation to facilitate innovation. Dr. Richard envisions a transformative shift in healthcare delivery, while stressing the impact of remote monitoring and patient-centric models. He believes that it is important to embrace discomfort as a catalyst for growth and learning, and encourages leaders to navigate daily challenges with curiosity and resilience.   [36:17] Closing Quote: Remember, the life so short a craft, so long to learn. -Hippocrates   Quotable Quotes: "Leadership isn't just directing from above; it's about actively understanding and helping the team."   "Leadership is developing the ability to lead one-on-one and to lead groups of individuals who are all in disagreement."   "The most important on being a leader, is being able to lead yourself as you navigate and figure out your own path."   "Our most effective leaders must grasp how to analyze data, comprehend hard facts, and navigate complex situations."   "Many organizations share similar values, but often these values are not reflected in their behaviors."   "The key to changing the culture is ensuring that it's not only about values but also about the behaviors that embody those values."   “Values plus behaviors is equal culture.”   "Those daily stories are what truly inspires me."   "If I notice people don't feel safe speaking up or sharing perspectives, I take action."   "Things always change, so you need to look at everything to make the best decision."   “It's essential for humans to figure out where our efficacy is and what we can do to make sure that we're happy, engaged, have well-being, and fulfilled.”   “We need individuals who can deal with crises and can steer an organization forward when the organization is unsure.”   “We need individuals who have the ability to bring people with different perspectives together.”   This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Dr. Richard:     Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dr. Richard Winters LinkedIn | Dr. Richard Winters Website | Mayo Clinic Website | Dr. Richard Winters Twitter |  

Johannes Andersen: The Critical Role of the Leap of Faith in Organizational Change Programs Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. In this episode, Johannes discusses leading a small business unit through a change process to improve project flow and efficiency. Initially working in silos, the team aimed to reorganize around customer-focused products. Despite considering an outside-in model, they chose an inside-out approach for practicality. An off-site session helped visualize the workflow under the new structure, but progress in the change was slow due to overplanning. Johannes learned that successful change requires adaptability and a leap of faith, emphasizing the importance of navigating between complicated and complex models as reality shifts. In this episode, we talk about the importance of being able to differentiate between complex and complicated types of work and change.   [IMAGE HERE] As Scrum Master we work with change continuously! Do you have your own change framework that provides the guidance, and queues you need when working with change? The Lean Change Management framework is a fully defined, lean-startup inspired change framework that can be used as the backbone of any change process! You can buy Lean Change Management the book at Amazon. Also available in French, Spanish, German and Portuguese.   About Johannes Andersen Johannes comes from a finance and fintech background, and is now an enterprise agility maestro at a leading telco in Copenhagen! He focuses on optimizing the flow from strategy to execution, championing portfolio management with a keen eye on doing the right things, even if imperfectly. Johannes is an international speaker on product development topics. You can link with Johannes Andersen on LinkedIn.