Podcast appearances and mentions of kent c dodds

Today we have the excellent Kent C. Dodds on the program. Kent is an amazing teacher in the web development space, and I've learned a ton from him about React, JavaScript testing, and general web dev. Lately, Kent has been going all-in on AI, especially with the model context protocol (MCP) space. He's sharing a ton of useful material in this area as he works on a new course. We spent a lot of time going over what MCP is, why it's useful, and why Kent thinks our own personal Jarvis is the next step. We cover a bunch of other topics too, like what it's like putting on a conference (Epic Web Conf) plus how AI has changed the educational space. Check it out! *Timestamps* 01:12 Start 06:52 The pitch for MCP 14:30 Where does MCP architecturally sit? 17:27 Contrasting with REST 23:07 Should I be building these now? 23:47 Are there any frameworks? 26:31 Why Cloudflare 34:10 MCP Spec 35:35 Authentication 38:29 A2A by Google 41:50 What caught Kent's attention? 44:28 What got Kent interested in React? 46:16 Jarvis 47:44 Frontend Development in the long run 51:44 What needs to get better for this to happen? 57:42 How has AI impacted education landscape? 01:04:46 Like the travel? 01:12:35 App Stack 01:13:48 React Server Components Follow Kent: https://twitter.com/kentcdodds Follow Alex: https://twitter.com/alexbdebrie Follow Sean: https://twitter.com/seanfalconer *Software Huddle ⤵︎* X: https://twitter.com/SoftwareHuddle

In this episode we had the pleasure of sitting down with Kent C. Dodds, a celebrated educator, open-source advocate, and React expert. He's the creator of the Epic Web conference starting on March 25th 2025 and has created some of the best React workshops and courses out there. Together, we dove deep into how AI has made it almost impossible to apply to jobs the traditional way and if junior developers should turn off their AI chatbots when learning. We also covered what framework you should be learning and the roadmap for learning it. (Spoiler alert... it's React). Show Notes: https://www.htmlallthethings.com/podcasts/ai-has-broken-the-web-developer-job-market-w-kent-c-dodds

In episode 7 of Open Source Ready, Brian and John are joined by Kent C. Dodds to discuss the evolution of React, the rise of Remix, and the future of front-end development. From early struggles with Angular to React Router v7's role in modern apps, Kent shares valuable insights for developers navigating the ever-changing JavaScript landscape.

This is the last episode for 2024. To make it special, it's a supercut of all the unconventional advice from every single guest that was on the show this year - Kent C. Dodds, Jerod Santo, Rob Walling, Adrienne Tacke, David Khourshid, Saron Yitbarek, Rachel Andrew, Katie Fujihara, Lena Reinhard, Miriam Suzanne, Kirupa Chinnathambi, Craig Hewitt, Jennifer Wong, Jason Lengstorf, Michael Kennedy, and Asia Orangio. This turned out so well, that I will be definitely re-visiting the format in the new year. I hope you have a successful and adventure-packed 2025, with plenty of room for career growth. See you next year!

At React Summit in New York, KBall & Nick sat down with Kent C. Dodds & Theo Browne for two fascinating conversations. Both of them showed us the whole gamut of their personalities! Kent shared his insights on effective teaching methodologies and the future of developer education, while diving deep into React and the Remix/React Router ecosystem, and closing on an appeal for kindness int he world. Then Theo took us behind the scenes of his developer-focused content creation, from streaming to the origins of the T3 stack, and how his online persona (including T3!) is "just him".

At React Summit in New York, KBall & Nick sat down with Kent C. Dodds & Theo Browne for two fascinating conversations. Both of them showed us the whole gamut of their personalities! Kent shared his insights on effective teaching methodologies and the future of developer education, while diving deep into React and the Remix/React Router ecosystem, and closing on an appeal for kindness int he world. Then Theo took us behind the scenes of his developer-focused content creation, from streaming to the origins of the T3 stack, and how his online persona (including T3!) is "just him".

Kent C. Dodds, web dev educator, discusses the evolution of web architectures, the potential of React Server Components, and the latest advancements in React 19, offering insights perfect for developers eager to stay ahead. Links https://kentcdodds.com https://x.com/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds https://www.youtube.com/c/KentCDodds-vids https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://www.epicreact.dev https://www.testingjavascript.com https://www.epicweb.dev We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket provides AI-first session replay and analytics that surfaces the UX and technical issues impacting user experiences. Start understand where your users are struggling by trying it for free at [LogRocket.com]. Try LogRocket for free today.(https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

Want to break free from the 9-to-5 hustle and build a $1 million creator business?In this week's episode, I coach Aaron Francis on his course-selling business and explore how to 3x his business by the end of 2025.Join us as we explore how to effectively implement a hub-and-spoke model to build a loyal newsletter list, proven lead magnets that can double your audience size, practical ways you can implement price tiering to instantly boost your revenue.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:15 Breakdown of Launch Businesses05:37 Setting Future Goals for the Business06:38 Creators Who Pulled Off Successful Launches10:31 Potential Problems for Product Based Creator Businesses20:40 How to Master Audience Growth26:50 Using Lead Magnets for YouTube to Email Conversions36:10 Strategic Content Creation for Sustainable Growth39:48 Tiered Pricing to Increase Revenue49:10 Grow Your Business Without Making More Products53:54 Cross-Selling Your Existing Products01:05:17 Fine-Tune Your Brand Vision01:07:40 Closing ThoughtsIf you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. We read every single one.Know more about Billion Dollar Creator: https://www.billiondollarcreator.com/Follow Nathan:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry/Twitter: https://twitter.com/nathanbarryWebsite: https://nathanbarry.com/Featured in this episode:High Performance SQLite: https://highperformancesqlite.com/watch/introduction-to-this-courseScreencasting.com: https://screencasting.com/ConvertKit (soon to be Kit): https://convertkit.com/Aaron Francis: https://aaronfrancis.com/Kent C. Dodds: https://kentcdodds.com/Wes Bos: https://wesbos.com/Adam Wathan: https://adamwathan.me/Highlights:07:45 How to Bridge the Mental Gap to Your Goals16:09 Overcoming Struggles by Delegating Tasks & Team Dynamics23:15 Importance of YouTube and Email 29:10 Mastering Lead Magnets49:10 Timeline to Grow a Course Business

In this episode, we dive into the remarkable career journey of Kent C. Dodds, a passionate educator and entrepreneur. Kent shares insights from his early days in programming, his transition from working at PayPal to becoming a full-time educator, and the creation of his successful educational platforms like Epic React and Epic Web. We explore the challenges and rewards of going solo, the process of developing and launching educational content, and the importance of work-life balance. Whether you're an aspiring developer or a seasoned professional, Kent's story is full of valuable lessons on growth, resilience, and the power of teaching.

Kent C. Dodds joins Tracy Lee and Rob Ocel at THAT Conference-WI for a discussion about his journey from being an Angular developer to becoming a leading figure in the React community. Kent shares his motivations for making the switch, detailing how React's focus on JavaScript fundamentals and its incremental adoption of new features appealed to him. He also reviews his current and upcoming projects, including the launch of EpicWeb.dev, a comprehensive platform designed to provide end-to-end web development education. Kent talks about the updates coming to EpicReact.dev, including a new tutorial where developers can build useState and useEffect from scratch, aimed at deepening their understanding of React hooks.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 02:41 Preparing for a 90-Minute Keynote 05:37 Writing a Book and Other Projects 08:04 Surrounded by Ambitious People 09:01 Personal Stories and Balance 10:22 Lessons from Domo and Joe Eames 11:21 Learning from Experienced Engineers 12:41 The Importance of Surroundings 13:33 Choosing the Right People to Associate With 14:46 Kent's Organizational Skills 15:41 Balancing Work and Family 17:06 Committing to Big Things 18:04 Avoiding Burnout and Assessing Priorities 19:26 Sharing Personal Stories in Talks 20:21 Finding Effectiveness and Efficiency 21:17 Dealing with Burnout and Overwhelm 22:46 The Entrepreneurial Mentality 23:15 Running to the Top and Figuring It Out 24:14 Kent's Various Projects 25:41 Transitioning from Angular to React Follow Kent C Dodds on Social Media Twitter: https://x.com/kentcdodds Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/kentcdodds.com Github: https://github.com/kentcdodds EpicWeb.dev: https://www.epicweb.dev/ EpicReact.dev: https://www.epicreact.dev/ Learn More About THAT Conference Wisconsin 2024: https://thatconference.com/wi/2024/

https://codingcat.dev/podcast/cwcc-0-6-remix-with-kent-c-dodds --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/codingcatdev/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/codingcatdev/support

Join the waitlist for my SQLite course launching in June: https://highperformancesqlite.com/ Get production ready SQLite with Turso: https://turso.tech/tryhard. In this interview, I talk to Kent C. Dodds about SQLite, LiteFS and the React ecosystem. Carl: https://twitter.com/kentcdodds EpicWeb: https://www.epicweb.dev/ The Epic Stack: https://www.epicweb.dev/epic-stack Fly.io: https://fly.io/ LiteFS: https://fly.io/docs/litefs/ Litestream: https://litestream.io/

In this episode, Amy, Brad, and Bekah welcome back Kent C. Dodds, who shares exciting updates about his latest project, Epic Web.dev. Kent discusses the philosophy behind his comprehensive web development course, the importance of understanding foundational technologies, and the motivation behind creating Epic Web Conf. He also dives into the benefits of building your own authentication systems and the decision-making process behind the Epic Stack. The conversation is filled with insights on balancing different technologies, creating cohesive learning experiences, and the future of web development education. SponsorsConvexConvex is the backend for founders. Convex is the backend application platform for product-obsessed founders Show Notes0:00 - Intro1:09 - Sponsor: Convex2:09 - Overview of EpicWeb.dev3:09 - Journey from PayPal to Epic Web8:14 - Teaching Approach and Workshop App10:47 - Building your own Authentication System16:59 - Decision-Making and Epic Stack21:35 - Launching Epic Web Conf27:26 - Consistency in Teaching and Conferences35:03 - Future Plans for EpicWeb.dev43:16 - Picks and PlugsKentPick: Brandon Sanderson's books - Particularly the Mistborn series and his involvement in the Wheel of Time series.Plug: Epic Web Conf - An exciting web development conference happening in Park City, Utah.BekahPick: Primal Buffalo Chicken StickPlug: @opensauced on Twitter/XBradPick: Ray-Ban Wayfarer SunglassesPlug: @bradgarropy on Twitter/XAmyPick: The Artists Way by Julia CameronPlug: Two Week Build 

Kent C. Dodds joins the podcast to discuss common user experience pitfalls in web development, emphasizing the unintentional 'lies' developers tell users through various practices. He covers the necessity for honesty in UI designs, covers some real-world examples, and explores strategies to combat these issues. Links https://kentcdodds.com/ https://twitter.com/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz-BYvuntVRt_VpfR6FKXJw https://kentcdodds.com/transparency https://www.epicweb.dev https://epicreact.dev https://www.testingjavascript.com We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

This is our first live recording (with other people) ever! Kent C Dodds welcomes us to his Epic Web Conf to interview some of the speakers. We go into the dynamic landscape of developer tools and community engagement, reflecting on the evolution of DevRel roles with insights from industry experts. We also explore the profound influence of AI on creativity, discussing the ethical implications and the fusion of technology with artistic expression.

Today, we have Kent C Dodds on the show. If you don't know Kent, he's a well known expert in JavaScript, Web Development and Teaching. His courses like Testing JavaScript, Epic React, and Epic Web Dev have helped countless developers uplevel their skills and develop whole new ones. During our conversation, we discussed how he got to start in creating courses in the background on his latest project, Epic Web Dev. We also picked his brain about JavaScript. Why the heck do we have so many JavaScript frameworks? Are we just perpetually dissatisfied with what we have? Or is there a fundamental problem with how the web is actually designed? There's a lot of meat in the bone on this one, and we hope you enjoy it. Show Notes: The Web's Next Transition https://www.epicweb.dev/the-webs-next-transition Epic Web Conference 2024 CONFERENCE DAY April 11th, 2024 WORKSHOP DAY April 10th, 2024 https://www.epicweb.dev/conf Timestamps 01:46 Kent's Background 05:38 Epic Web Dev 15:07 Creating an engaging course 19:07 How long does it take to finish the course 23:01 JavaScript and CS 25:47 Things that you should know 29:09 JS frameworks 36:28 Re-building the Web from Scratch? 42:59 PESPA Architecture 53:04 Rapid Fire

Simon and Jon have been busy! Check out this episode to learn about their adventures with long hair, using Kent C Dodds' gamified LMS to run a Pixel Perfect workshop and how you can suggest topics on the new Navbar website Website: https://navbar.tech Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Build a Twitter Clone with the Next.js App Router and Supabase (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/build-a-twitter-clone-with-the-next-js-app-router-and-supabase-19bebadb Want more NavBar?

In this episode we chat with Kent C. Dodds, the creator of educational sites like, EpicWeb.dev, EpicReact.dev and TestingJavaScript.com, about Remix. Where it came from, what it is all about and its differentiators from other meta-frameworks. This is a must-listen episode for any developer wanting to expand their web development horizon or curious about modern React.More about KentGithub: https://github.com/kentcdodds X: @kentcdoddsLinkedIn: Kent C. Doddshttps://www.epicweb.devhttps://kentcdodds.comFollow us on X: The Angular Plus Show The Angular Plus Show is a part of ng-conf. ng-conf is a multi-day Angular conference focused on delivering the highest quality training in the Angular JavaScript framework. Developers from across the globe converge on Salt Lake City, UT every year to attend talks and workshops by the Angular team and community experts.Join: http://www.ng-conf.org/Attend: https://ti.to/ng-confFollow: https://twitter.com/ngconf https://www.linkedin.com/company/ng-conf https://bsky.app/profile/ng-conf.bsky.social https://www.facebook.com/ngconfofficialRead: https://medium.com/ngconf Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@ngconfonline Stock media provided by JUQBOXMUSIC/ Pond5

Kent C. Dodds is a developer, educator, community organizer, and above all, a person that is passionate about making the world a better place by giving as many folks as possible the opportunity to learn web development. I sat down with Kent to chat more about his career, what bootstrapped his interest in programming, and what his takeaways from building his path as an entrepreneur are. Just like me, you will quickly learn how his career is a testament to the power of passion, resilience, relentless pursuit of excellence, and most importantly - consistency.

It's the end of the year, so we want to give you a taste of our most popular episodes from 2023, starting with Tim Neutkens and the release of Next.js 13.4, followed by Chris Ferdinandi talking about the transitional web, and ending with Kent C. Dodds talking about type safety. Links Apple Next.js 13.4 with Tim Neutkens: https://apple.co/3S93lyh The state of JS frameworks with Chris Ferdinandi: http://bit.ly/3n9eCRS Fully Typed Web Apps with Kent C. Dodds: http://bit.ly/3LfXNP4 Spotify Next.js 13.4 with Tim Neutkens: https://spoti.fi/4aE67Tm The state of JS frameworks with Chris Ferdinandi: https://spoti.fi/3LPxUpN Fully Typed Web Apps with Kent C. Dodds: http://bit.ly/3YuRN8o Google Next.js 13.4 with Tim Neutkens: https://bit.ly/3RwXscw The state of JS frameworks with Chris Ferdinandi: http://bit.ly/3JEzOXH Fully Typed Web Apps with Kent C. Dodds: http://bit.ly/3L9ZL3O We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guests: Chris Ferdinandi, Kent C. Dodds, and Tim Neutkens.

In this repeat episode picked by host Noel Minchow, Kent C. Dodds talks about his project, the Epic Stack, a stack curated by Kent aimed at giving devs the tools they need without overwhelming them with too many options. Links https://twitter.com/jonmeyers_io https://kentcdodds.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds https://twitter.com/kentcdodds http://EpicWeb.dev http://EpicReact.dev http://TestingJavaScript.com We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

Kent C. Dodds, a JavaScript engineer and teacher known for Epic Web Dev and the Remix web framework, reflects on his journey in tech, including his tenure at PayPal and his transition to full-time teaching. Kent's passion for teaching is a constant theme throughout. He transitioned from corporate roles to full-time education, capitalizing on his ability to explain complex concepts in an accessible manner. This transition was marked by the creation of successful online courses like "Testing JavaScript and Epic React," which have significantly influenced the web development community. An interesting aspect of Kent's career is his involvement with Remix, including his decision to leave Shopify (which acquired Remix) to return to teaching, which led to the development of his latest project, Epic Web Dev, an extensive and innovative web development course. This interview provides a comprehensive view of Kent C. Dodds's life and career, showcasing his professional achievements in web development and teaching, his personal life as a family man, and his unique upbringing in a large family. Epic Web (https://www.epicweb.dev/) Remix (https://remix.run/) Follow Kent C. Dodds on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds/) or X (https://twitter.com/kentcdodds). Visit his website at kentcdodds.com (https://kentcdodds.com/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: WILL: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Will Larry. And with me today is Kent C. Dodds. Kent is a JavaScript engineer and teacher. He has recently released a massive workshop called epicweb.dev. And he is the father of four kids. Kent, thank you for joining me. KENT: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. WILL: Yeah. And it's an honor for me to have you. I am a huge fan. I think you're the one that taught me how to write tests and the importance of it. So, I'm excited to talk to you and just pick your brain and learn more about you. KENT: Oh, thank you. WILL: Yeah. So, I just want to start off just: who is Kent? What do you like to do? Tell us about your family, your hobbies, and things like that. KENT: Yeah, sure. So, you mentioned I'm the father of four kids. That is true. We are actually expecting our fifth child any day now. So, we are really excited to have our growing family. And when I'm not developing software or material for people to learn how to develop software, I'm spending time with my family. I do have some other hobbies and things, but I try to share those with my family as much as I can. So, it's starting to snow around here in Utah. And so, the mountains are starting to get white, and I look forward to going up there with my family to go skiing and snowboarding this season. During the summertime, I spend a lot of time on my one-wheel just riding around town and bring my kids with me when I can to ride bikes and stuff, too. So, that's sort of the personal side of my life. And then, professionally, I have been in this industry developing for the web professionally for over a decade. Yeah, web development has just worked out super well for me. I kind of focused in on JavaScript primarily. And when I graduated with a master's degree in Information Systems at Brigham Young University, I started working in the industry. I bounced around to a couple of different companies, most of them you don't know, but you'd probably be familiar with PayPal. I was there for a couple of years and then decided to go full-time on teaching, which I had been doing as, like, a part-time thing, or, like, on the side all those years. And yeah, when teaching was able to sustain my family's needs, then I just switched full-time. So, that was a couple of years ago that I did that. I think like, 2018 is when I did that. I took a 10-month break to help Remix get off the ground, the Remix web framework. They got acquired by Shopify. And so, I went back to full-time teaching, not that I don't like Shopify, but I felt like my work was done, and I could go back to teaching. So, that's what I'm doing now, full-time teacher. WILL: Wow. Yes, I definitely have questions around that. KENT: [laughs] Okay. WILL: So many. But I want to start back...you were saying you have four kids. What are their ages? KENT: Yeah, my oldest is 11, youngest right now is 6, and then we'll have our fifth one. So, all four of the kids are pretty close in age. And then my wife and I thought we were done. And then last December, we kind of decided, you know what? I don't think we're done. I kind of think we want to do another. So, here we go. We've got a larger gap between my youngest and the next child than we have between my oldest and the youngest child. WILL: [chuckles] KENT: So, we're, like, starting a new family, or [laughs] something. WILL: Yeah [laughs]. I just want to congratulate you on your fifth child. That's amazing. KENT: Thank you. WILL: Yeah. How are you feeling about that gap? KENT: Yeah, we were pretty intentional about having our kids close together because when you do that, they have built-in friends that are always around. And as they grow older, you can do the same sorts of things with them. So, like, earlier this year, we went to Disneyland, and they all had a great time. They're all at the good age for that. And so, they actually will remember things and everything. Yeah, we were pretty certain that four is a good number for us and everything. But yeah, we just started getting this nagging feeling we wanted another one. So, like, the fact that there's a big gap was definitely not in the plan. But I know a lot of people have big gaps in their families, and it's just fine. So, we're going to be okay; just it's going to change the dynamic and change some plans for us. But we're just super excited to have this next one. WILL: I totally understand what you mean by having them close together. So, I have three little ones, and my oldest and my youngest share the same exact birthday, so they're exactly three years apart. KENT: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's actually...that's fun. My current youngest and his next oldest brother are exactly two years apart. They share the same birthday, too [laughs]. WILL: Wow. You're the first one I've heard that their kids share a birthday. KENT: Yeah, I've got a sister who shares a birthday with her son. And I think we've got a couple of birthdays that are shared, but I also have 11 brothers and sisters [laughs]. And so, I have got a big family, lots of opportunity for shared birthdays in my family. WILL: Yeah, I was actually going to ask you about that. How was it? I think you're the 11th. So, you're the youngest of 11? KENT: I'm the second youngest. So, there are 12 of us total. I'm number 11. WILL: Okay, how was that growing up with that many siblings? KENT: I loved it. Being one of the youngest I didn't really...my experience was very different from my older siblings. Where my older siblings probably ended up doing a fair bit of babysitting and helping around the house in that way, I was the one being babysat. And so, like, by the time I got to be, like, a preteen, or whatever, lots of my siblings had already moved out. I was already an uncle by the time I was six. I vaguely remember all 12 of us being together, but most of my growing up was just every other year; I'd have another sibling move out of the house, which was kind of sad. But they'd always come back and visit. And now I just have an awesome relationship with every one of my family members. And I have something, like, 55 nieces and nephews or more. Yeah, getting all of us together every couple of years for reunions is really a special experience. It's a lot of fun. WILL: Yeah. My mom, she had 12 brothers and sisters. KENT: Whoa. WILL: And I honestly miss it because we used to get together all the time. I used to live a lot closer. Most of them are in Louisiana or around that area, and now I'm in South Florida, so I don't get to see them as often. But yeah, I used to love getting together. I had so many cousins, and we got in so much trouble...and it was -- KENT: [laughs] WILL: We loved it [laughs]. KENT: Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that. WILL: Yeah. Well, I want to start here, like, how did you get your start? Because I know...I was doing some research, and I saw that, at one point, you were an AV tech. You were a computer technician. You even did maintenance. Like, what was the early start of your career like, and how did you get into web dev? KENT: I've always been very interested in computers, my interest was largely video games. So, when I was younger, I had a friend who was a computer programmer or, like, would program stuff. We had visions of...I don't know if you're familiar with RuneScape, but it's this game that he used to play, and I would play a little bit. It was just a massive online multiplayer game. And so, we had visions of building one of those and having it just running in the background, making us money, as if that's how that works [laughter]. But he tried to teach me programming, and I just could not get it at all. And so I realized at some point that playing video games all the time wasn't the most productive use of my time on computers, and if I wanted my parents to allow me to be on computers, I needed to demonstrate that I could be productive in learning, and making things, and stuff. So, I started blogging and making videos and just, like, music videos. My friend, who was the programmer, he was into anime, or anime, as people incorrectly pronounce it. And [laughs] there was this website called amv.com or .org or something. It's Anime Music Videos. And so, we would watch these music videos. And I'd say, "I want to make a music video with Naruto." And so, I would make a bunch of music videos from the Naruto videos I downloaded, and that was a lot of fun. I also ran around with a camera to do that. And then, with the blog, I wrote a blog about Google and the stuff that Google was, like, doing because I just thought it was a fascinating company. I always wanted to work at Google. In the process of, like, writing the blog, I got exposed to CSS and HTML, but I really didn't do a whole lot of programming. I also did a little bit of Google Docs. Spreadsheets had some JavaScript macros-type things that you could do. So, I did a little bit of that, but I never really got too far into programming. Then I go to college, I'm thinking, you know what? I think I want to be a video editor. I really enjoy that. And so, my brother, who at the time was working at Micron, he did quality assurance on the memory they were making. So, he would build test automation, software and hardware for testing the memory they build. And so, he recommended that I go into electrical engineering. Because what he would say is, "If you understand computers at that foundational level, you can do anything with computers." And I'd say, "Well, I like computers. And if I go into video editing, I'm going to need to understand computers, too. So yeah, sure, let's let's do that." I was also kind of interested in 3D animation and stuff like that, too. Like, I wasn't very good at it, but I was kind of interested in that, too. So, I thought, like, having a really good foundation on computers would be a good thing for me. Well, I was only at school for a semester when I took a break to go on a mission for my church [inaudible 09:42] mission. And when I got back and started getting back into things, I took a math refresher course. That was, like, a half a credit. It wasn't really a big thing, but I did terrible in it. I did so bad. And it was about that time that I realized, you know what? I've been thinking my whole life that I'm good at math. And just thinking back, I have no idea why or any justification for why I thought I was good at math because in high school, I always struggled with it. I spent so much time with it. And in fact, my senior year, I somehow ended up with a free period of nothing else to do. I don't know how this happened. But, I used that free period to go to an extra edition of my calculus class. So, I was going to twice as much calculus working, like, crazy hard and thinking that I was good at this, and I superduper was not [laughter]. And so, after getting back from my mission and taking that refresher course, I was like, you know what? Math is a really important part of engineering, and I'm not good at it at all, obviously. And so, I've got to pivot to something else. Well, before my mission, as part of the engineering major, you needed to take some programming classes. So, there was a Java programming class that I took and a computer systems class that included a lot of programming. The computer systems was very low level, so we were doing zeros and ones. And I wrote a program in zeros and ones. All that it did was it would take input from the keyboard, and then spit that back out to you as output. That was what it did. But still, you know, many lines of zeros and ones and just, like, still, I can't believe I did that [laughter]. And then we upgraded from that to Assembly, and what a godsend that was [laughs], how wonderful Assembly was after working in machine code. But then we upgraded from that to C, and that's as far as that class went. And then, yeah, my Java class, we did a bunch of stuff. And I just remember thinking or really struggling to find any practicality to what we were doing. Like, in the Java class, we were implementing the link to list data structure. And I was like, I do not care about this. This does not make any sense. Why should I care? We were doing these transistor diagrams in the computer systems class. And why do I care about that? I do not care about this at all. Like, this is not an interesting thing for me. So, I was convinced computer programming was definitely not what I wanted to do. So, when I'm switching from electrical engineering, I'm thinking, well, what do I do? And my dad convinced me to try accounting. That was his profession. He was a certified public accountant. And so, I said, "Okay, I'll try that." I liked the first class, and so I switched my major to go into the business school for accounting. I needed to take the next accounting class, and I hated that so much. It was just dull and boring. And I'm so glad that I got out of that because [laughs] I can't imagine doing anything like that. WILL: [laughs] KENT: But as part of switching over to business school, I discovered information systems. What's really cool about that is that we were doing Excel spreadsheets and building web pages. But it was all, like, with a practical application of business and, like, solving business problems. And then, I was like, oh, okay, so I can do stuff with computers in a practical setting, and that's what got me really interested. So, I switched, finally, to information systems–made it into that program. And I was still not convinced I wanted to do programming. I just wanted to work with computers. What ended up happening is the same time I got into the information systems program, I got married to my wife, and then I got this part-time job at a company called the More Good Foundation. It's a non-profit organization. And one of my jobs was to rip DVDs and upload those videos to YouTube, and then also download videos from one site and upload those to YouTube as well. And so, I was doing a lot of stuff with YouTube and video stuff. And as part of my information systems class, I was taking another Java class. At that same time, I was like, you know, what I'm doing at work is super boring. Like, can you imagine your job is to put in a [inaudible 13:45] and then click a couple of buttons? And, like, it was so boring and error-prone, too. Like, okay, now I've got to type this out and, you know, I got to make sure it's the same, try and copy-paste as much as I can. And it was not fun. And so, I thought, well, I'm pretty sure there are pieces of this that I could automate. And so, with the knowledge that I was getting in my information systems programming class, that was another Java class, I decided to write a program that automated a bunch of my stuff. And so, I asked my boss, like, "Can I automate this with writing software?" And I'm so glad that they said I could. WILL: [laughs] KENT: Because by the end of it, I had built software that allowed me to do way more than I ever could have before. I ended up uploading thousands of videos to their YouTube channels, which would have taken years to do. And they ended up actually being so happy with me. They had me present to the board of directors when they were asking for more money [laughs] and stuff. And it was really awesome. But still, I was not interested in being a programmer. Programming, to me, was just a means to an end. WILL: Oh, wow. KENT: Yeah, I guess there was just something in me that was like, I am not a programmer. So, anyway, further into the program of information systems, I interned as a business intelligence engineer over that next summer, and I ended up staying on there. And while I was supposed to be a business intelligence engineer, I did learn a lot about SQL, and star schema, and denormalized databases to optimize for read speed and everything. I learned a lot about that. But I just kept finding myself in positions where I would use my programming experience to automate things that were problematic for us in the business realm. And this was all still Java. It was there that I finally realized, you know what? I think I actually do want to be a programmer. I actually really do enjoy this. And I like that it's practical, and it makes sense for me, so… WILL: What year was that? KENT: That would have been 2012. Then I got a new job where my job was actually to be a programmer at a company called Domo, where they do business intelligence, actually. So, it got my foot in the door a little bit since I was a business intelligence engineer already. I got hired on, actually, as a QA engineer doing automated testing, but I never really got into that. And they shifted me over pretty quick into helping with the web app. And that is when I discovered JavaScript, and the whole, like, everything flooded out from there. I was like, wow, I thought I liked programming, but I had no idea how fun it could be. Because I felt like the chains had been broken. I no longer have to write Java. I can write JavaScript, and this was just so much better. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And so, yeah, I was there for a year and a half before I finally graduated. And I took a little break to work at USAA for a summer internship. And when I came back, I had another year and then converted to full-time. And so, yeah, there's my more detail than you were probably looking for, story of how I got into programming [laughs]. WILL: No, I actually love it because like I said, I've used your software, your teachings, all that. And it's amazing to hear the story of how you got there. Because I feel like a lot of times, we just see the end result, but we don't know the struggle that you went through of even trying to find your way through what your purpose was, what you're trying to do. Because, at one point, you said you were trying to do accounting, then you were trying to do something else. So, it's amazing to see, like, when it clicked for you when you got into JavaScript, so that's amazing. KENT: Yeah, it is kind of funny to think, like, some people have the story of, like, I knew I wanted to be a programmer from the very beginning, and it's just kind of funny for me to think back and, like, I was pretty certain I didn't want to be a programmer. WILL: [laughs] KENT: Like, not only did I, like, lots of people will say, "I never really thought about it, and then I saw it, and it was great." But I had thought about it. And I saw it, and I thought it was awful [laughter]. And so, yeah, I'm really glad that it worked out the way it did, though, because programming has just been a really fun thing. Like, I feel so blessed to be doing something that I actually enjoy doing. Like so many of our ancestors, they would go to work because they cared about their family and they just wanted to feed their family. I'm so grateful to them for doing that. I am so lucky that I get to go to work to take care of my family, but also, I just love doing it. WILL: Yeah, I feel the same way, so yeah, totally agree. After you found out about JavaScript, when did you figure out that you want to teach JavaScript? What was that transition like? KENT: I've been teaching for my whole life. It's ingrained in my religion. Even as a kid, you know, I'd prepare a talk, a five-minute talk, and stand up in front of 30 of my peers. And even when you're an early teenager, you get into speaking in front of the entire congregation. It took a while before I got good enough at something, enough hubris to think that people would care about what I have to say -- WILL: [laughs] KENT: Outside of my religion where, like, they're sitting there, and I've been asked to speak, and so they're going to listen to me. And so, when I started getting pretty good at programming, I decided, hey, I want to teach this stuff that I'm learning. And so, when I was still at school and working at Domo, the business intelligence company, one of our co-workers, Dave Geddes, he put together a workshop to teach AngularJS because we were migrating from Backbone to Angular. And I asked him if I could use his workshop material to teach my classmates. This was, like, soon after ng-conf, the first ng-conf, which my co-workers at Domo actually put on. So, I wasn't involved in the organization, but I was very much present when it was being organized. I attended there and developed a relationship with Firebase with the people there. I was actually...they had a developer evangelist program, which they called Torchbearers or something. And actually, that was my idea to call them Torchbearers. I think they wanted to call us torches, and I'm like, that just doesn't make sense. WILL: [laughs] KENT: I developed a relationship with them. And I asked them, "Hey, I want to teach my classmates AngularJS. Would you be interested in sponsoring some pizza and stuff?" And they said, "Yeah, we'll send you stickers, and hot sauce, and [laughs] a bunch of..." Like, they sent us, like, headphones [laughs] and stuff. So, I was like, sweet. I taught my classmates AngularJS in a workshop, brought a bunch of pizza, and it was, you know, just an extracurricular thing. And actually, the recording is still on my YouTube channel, so if you want to go look at one of my early YouTube videos. I was very into publishing video online. So, if you are diligent, you'll be able to find some of my very early [laughter] videos from my teenage years. But anyway, so, yes, I've been teaching since the very beginning. As soon as I graduated from college, I started speaking at meetups. I'd never been to a meetup before, and I just saw, oh, they want a speaker. I can talk about something. WILL: Wow. KENT: And not realizing that, like, meetups are literally always looking for speakers. This wasn't some special occasion. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And one of the meetups I spoke at was recorded and put on YouTube. And the guy who started Egghead io, John Lindquist, he is local here in Utah. And he saw that I spoke at that meetup, but he wasn't able to attend. So, he watched the recording, and he thought it was pretty good. He thought I would do a good job turning that into a video course. And that first video course paid my mortgage. WILL: Wow. KENT: And I was blown away. This thing that I had been doing just kind of for fun speaking at meetups, and I realized, oh, I can actually, like, make some legit good money out of this. From there, I just started making more courses on the side after I put the kids to bed. My wife is like, "Hey, I love you, but I want you to stay away for now because I've just been with these tiny babies all day. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And I just need some alone time." WILL: Yes. KENT: And so, I was like, okay. WILL: [laughs] KENT: I'll just go and work on some courses. And so, I spent a lot of time for the next couple of years doing course material on the side. I reached out to Frontend Masters and just told them, "Hey, I've been doing courses for Egghead." I actually met Marc Grabanski at a conference a couple of years before. And so, we established a little bit of relationship. And I just said, "Hey, I want to come and teach there." So, I taught at Frontend Masters. I started putting on my own workshops at conferences. In fact, just a few months after graduating, I got accepted to speak at a conference. And only after I was accepted did I realize it was in Sweden [laughter]. I didn't think to look where in the world this conference was. So, that was my first international trip, actually, and I ended up speaking there. I gave, actually, two talks. One of them was a three-hour talk. WILL: Whoa. KENT: Which was, yeah, that was wild. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And then, yeah, I gave a two-day workshop for them. And then, I flew straight from there to Amsterdam to give another talk and also do a live in-person podcast, which I'd been running called ngAir, an Angular podcast. It just kept on building from there until finally, I created testingjavascript.com. And that was when I realized, oh, okay, so this isn't just a thing I can use to pay my mortgage, and that's nice. This is, like, a thing I can do full-time. Because I made more with Testing JavaScript than I made from my PayPal salary. WILL: Oh wow. KENT: I was like, oh, I don't need both of these things. I would rather work half as much one full-time job; that's what I want, one full-time job and make enough to take care of my family. And I prefer teaching. So, that's when I left PayPal was when I released Testing JavaScript. WILL: Wow. So, for me, I think so many times the imposter syndrome comes up whenever I want to teach or do things at the level you're saying you're doing. Because I love teaching. I love mentoring. I remember when I came into development, it was hard. I had to find the right person to help me mentor. So now, I almost made a vow to myself that if someone wants to learn and they're willing to put in the energy, I'm going to sit down however long it takes to help them because I remember how hard it was for me whenever I was doing it. So, you said in 2014, you were only a couple years doing development. How did you overcome impostor syndrome to stand in front of people, teach, go around the world, and give talks and podcasts? Like, how did you do that portion? KENT: Part of it is a certain level of hubris like I said. Like, you just have to be willing to believe that somebody's going to care. You know, the other part of it is, it's a secret to getting really, really good at something. They sometimes will say, like, those who can't do teach. That's total baloney because it requires a lot of being able to do to get you in a position where you can teach effectively. But the process of teaching makes you better at the process of doing as well. It's how you solidify your experience as a whatever. So, if you're a cook, you're really good at that; you will get better by teaching other people how to cook. There's an element of selfishness in what I do. I just want to get really, really good at this, and so I'm going to teach people so that I can. So yeah, I think there's got to be also, like, a little bit of thick skin, too, because people are going to maybe not like what you have to share or think that you're posing or whatever. Learn how to let that slide off you a little bit. But another thing is, like, as far as that's concerned, just being really honest about what your skill set is. So, if somebody asks me a question about GraphQL, I'm going to tell them, "Well, I did use GraphQL at PayPal, but I was pretty limited. And so, I don't have a lot of experience with that," and then I'll answer their question. And so, like, communicating your limitations of knowledge effectively and being okay being judged by people because they're going to judge you. It just is the way it is. So, you just have to learn how to cope well with that. There are definitely some times where I felt like I was in over my head on some subjects or I was involved in a conversation I had no business being there. I actually felt that a lot when I was sent as PayPal's delegate to the TC39 meetings. Wow, what am I doing here? I've only been in the industry for, like, two or three years at [laughter] that point. It takes a certain level of confidence in your own abilities. But also, like, being realistic about your inexperience as well, I think, is important too. WILL: Yeah, I know that you had a lot of success, and I want to cover that next. But were there any failures when you were doing those teaching moments? KENT: Years ago, Babel was still a new thing that everybody was using to compile their JavaScript with new syntax features down to JavaScript that the browser could run. There was ES Modules that was introduced, and lots of us were doing global window object stuff. And then we moved to, like, defining your dependencies with r.js or RequireJS. And then, there was CommonJS, and Universal Module Definition, and that sort of thing. So, ECMAScript modules were very exciting. Like, people were really interested in that. And so, Babel added support to it. It would compile from the module syntax down to whatever you wanted: CommonJS or...well, I'm pretty sure it could compile to RequireJS, but I compiled it to CommonJS. And so, there was a...yeah, I would say it's a bug in Babel at that time, where it would allow you to write your ES modules in a way that was not actually spec-compliant. It was incorrect. So, I would say export default some object, and then in another module, I would say import. And then, I'd select properties off of the object that I exported, that default I exported. That was allowed by Babel, but it is superduper, not how ECMAScript modules work. Well, the problem is that I taught, like, a ton of people how to use ECMAScript modules this way. And when I realized that I was mistaken, it was just, like, a knife to the heart because I was, like, I taught so many people this wrong thing. And so, I wrote a blog post about it. I gave a big, long talk titled “More Than You Want to Know About ECMAScript Modules,” where I talk about that with many other things as well. And so, yeah, just trying to do my part to make up for the mistake that I made. So yes, I definitely have had mistakes like that. There's also, like, the aspect that technology moves at a rapid pace. And so, I have old things that I would show people how to do, which they still work just as well as they worked back then. But I wouldn't recommend doing it that way because we have better ways now. For some people, the old way to do it is the only way they can do it based on the constraints they have and the tools that they're using and stuff. And so, it's not, like, it's not valuable at all. But it is a struggle to make sure that people understand that, like, this is the way that you do it if you have to do it this way, but, like, we've got better ways. WILL: I'm glad you shared that because it helps. And I love how you say it: when I make a mistake, I own up to it and let everyone know, "Hey, I made a mistake. Let's correct it and move on." So, I really like that. KENT: Yeah, 100%. MID-ROLL AD: Are your engineers spending too much time on DevOps and maintenance issues when you need them on new features? We know maintaining your own servers can be costly and that it's easy for spending creep to sneak in when your team isn't looking. By delegating server management, maintenance, and security to thoughtbot and our network of service partners, you can get 24x7 support from our team of experts, all for less than the cost of one in-house engineer. Save time and money with our DevOps and Maintenance service. Find out more at: tbot.io/devops. WILL: I want to go back to what you were saying. When you left PayPal, you released Testing JavaScript. How did you come up with the idea to write a Testing JavaScript course? And, two, how long did it take to take off and be successful? KENT: That was a pretty special thing, honestly. In 2018, I had put together a bunch of workshops related to testing. There was this conference called Assert(js) that invited me to come, taught them. In the year prior, I went to Midwest JS and taught how to test React. I had this material about testing. I'd gotten into testing just because of open-source stuff. I didn't want to have to manually go through all my stuff again every time I wanted to check for breakages and stuff, so that got me into testing. And whatever I'm into is what I'm going to teach. So, I started teaching that testing. And then my friend, Ryan Florence, put together...he separated from Michael Jackson with React Training, and built his own thing called Workshop.me. He asked me to join up with him. And he would, like, put together these workshops for me, and I would just...my job was just to show up and teach. And so, I did that. I have a picture, actually, in this blog post, The 2010s Decade in Review, of me in front of 60 people at a two-day workshop at Trulia in San Francisco. WILL: Oh, wow. KENT: And this is where I was teaching my testing workshop. Well, what's interesting about that photo is that two weeks before that, I had gotten really frustrated with the tool that everybody uses or used at the time for testing React, and that was Enzyme. And so I was preparing this workshop or working on it. I had already delivered it a number of times, but I was working on it, improving it, as I always do [laughs] when I'm preparing. WILL: [laughs] KENT: I can never give the same workshop twice, I guess. And I was just so frustrated that Enzyme was so difficult to work with. And, like, I was going to prepare this document that said, "Here are all the things you should never do with Enzyme. Like, Enzyme encourages you to do these things; you should not do these things. And let me explain why." And I just hated that I needed a document like that. And so, I tweeted, "I'm seriously starting to think that I should make my own very small testing lib and drop Enzyme entirely. Most of Enzyme's features are not at all useful and many damaging to my test bases. I'd rather have something smaller that encourages better practices." And so, I tweeted that March 15th, 2018. I did that. I did exactly that. What I often do in my workshops is I try to build the abstraction that we're going to use so that you can use it better. So, I was, like, building Enzyme, and I realized the jump between what I had built, the little utilities that I had built as part of the workshop, from that to Enzyme was just a huge leap. And so, I thought, you know what? These utilities that I have built to teach Enzyme are actually really good. What if I just turned that into a testing utility? And that became Testing Library, which, fast forward to today, is the number one testing library for React. And it's recommended for testing React, and Vue, and Angular. The ideas that are in Testing Library got adopted by Playwright. If you're writing tests for anything in the browser, you are very likely using something that was either originally developed by me or inspired by the work that I did. And it all came from that testing workshop that I was working on. So, with that, I had not only that testing workshop; I had a number of other workshops around testing. And so I approached Joel Hooks from Egghead.io. I say, "Hey, I'm getting ready to record a bunch of Egghead courses. I've got, like, six or seven courses I want to do." And he'd seen my work before, you know, I was a very productive course creator. And he said, "Hey, how about we, you know, we've been thinking about doing this special thing. How about we make a website just dedicated to your courses?" And I said, "That sounds great." I was a little bit apprehensive because I knew that putting stuff on Egghead meant that I had, like, a built-in audience and everything that was on Egghead, so this would be really the first time of me just branching out with video material on my own. Because, otherwise, if it wasn't Egghead, it was Frontend Masters, and there was the built-in audience there. But yeah, we decided to go for it. And we released it in, I think, November. And it was that first week...which is always when you make the most is during the launch period. But that launch week, I made more than my PayPal salary for the entire year. And so, that was when I realized, oh, yeah, okay, let's go full-time on this because I don't need two PayPal salaries. I just need one. And then I can spend more time with my family and stuff. And especially as the kids are getting older, they're staying up later, and I want to hang out with them instead of with my computer at night [laughter], and so... WILL: I love how you explain that because I came in around 2018, 2019. And I remember Enzyme, and it was so confusing, so hard to work with, especially for, you know, a junior dev that's just trying to figure it out. And I remember Testing JavaScript and then using that library, and it was just so much easier to, like, grab whatever you needed to grab. Those utils made the biggest difference, and still today, they make a huge difference. So yes, I just resonate with what you're saying. That's amazing. KENT: Aw, thank you so much. WILL: Yeah. You did Testing JavaScript. And then what was your next course that you did? KENT: I quit PayPal, go full-time teaching. That first year, I actually did an update to Testing JavaScript. There were a couple of changes in Testing Library and other things that I needed to update it for. And then I started working on Epic React. So, while I was doing all this testing stuff, I was also very into React, creating a bunch of workshops around that. I was invited to speak all over the world to talk about React. And I had a couple of workshops already for React. So, I was invited to give workshops at these conferences about React. And so, I thought, you know, let's do this again, and we'll do it with React this time. The other thing was, I'd never really planned on being the testing guy. It just kind of happened, and I actually didn't really like it either. I wanted to be more broad than just testing. So, that kind of motivated me to say, hey, let's do something with React to be a little bit more broad. Yeah, so I worked on putting those workshops together and delivered them remotely. And then, yeah, COVID hit, and just really messed everything up [laughs] really bad. So, I had everything done on my end for Epic React by March of 2020, which is, like, immediately after COVID got started, in the U.S. at least. And so, yeah, then we actually didn't end up releasing Epic React until October that year, which, honestly [laughs], was a little bit frustrating for me because I was like, "Hey, guys, I have recorded all the videos and everything. Can we get this released?" But, like, that just was a really rough year for everybody. But yeah, so Egghead got the site put together. I did a bunch of interviews and stuff. And then we launched in October of 2020. That was way bigger than Testing JavaScript because Testing JavaScript was still very informed by my experience as an Egghead instructor, which, typically, the Egghead courses are, like, a video where watch me do this thing, and then you'll learn something and go apply it to your own stuff. And that's kind of what Testing JavaScript was built as. But as part of the update of Testing JavaScript in 2019, I added another workshop module called Testing Node Applications. And in that one, I decided, hey, typically, I would have a workshop version of my material and a course version. The workshop version had like instructions and exercises. And the course version was no instructions or anything. It was just, like, watch these videos. And it was just me doing the exercises. And with the update of Testing JavaScript, I added that Testing Node workshop, and I said, hey, what if we just, like, embrace the fact that these are exercises, and it's just, like, me recording the workshop? How I would deliver the workshop? And so, I tested that out, and that went really well. And so, I doubled down on that with Epic React. And I said, okay, now, this isn't just, like, watch these videos. This is a do the exercise and then watch me do the exercise. So, Epic React was not only a lot more material but the format of the material was more geared for retention and true practice and learning. And so, Epic React ended up doing much better than Testing JavaScript, and even still, is still doing a remarkable job as far as course material is concerned. And, like, so many people are getting a lot of really great knowledge from Epic React. So yeah, very gratifying to have that. WILL: Once again, I've used Epic React. It's taught me so many...stretched me. And I do like the format, so yes, I totally agree with that, yeah. The next thing, Remix, correct? KENT: Yeah. So, how I got into Remix, around the same time we finished recording Epic React videos, I was doing some other stuff kind of to keep content going and stuff while we were waiting to launch Epic React. And around that same time, my friend Ryan Florence and Michael Jackson––they were doing the React training thing. And so, we were technically competitors. Like I said, Ryan and I kind of joined forces temporarily for his Workshop Me thing, but that didn't end up working out very well. And Michael really wanted Ryan back, and so they got back together. And their React training business went way better than it had before. They were hiring people and all sorts of stuff. And then, a training business that focuses on in-person training just doesn't do very well when COVID comes around. And so, they ended up having to lay off everybody and tried to figure out, okay, now what are we going to do? Our income has gone overnight. This is a bit of a simplification. But they decided to build software and get paid for it like one does. So, they started building Remix. Ryan, actually, around that time, moved back to Utah. He and I would hang out sometimes, and he would share what he was working on with Michael. We would do, like, Zoom calls and stuff, too. I just got really excited about what they were working on. I could see the foundation was really solid, and I thought it was awesome. But I was still working on Epic React. I end up launching Epic React. He launches Remix the very next month as a developer preview thing. Yeah, it definitely...it looked a lot like current Remix in some ways but very, very different in lots of others. But I was super hooked on that. And so, I paid for the developer preview and started developing my website with it. And around the next year in August, I was getting close to finishing my website. My website is, like, pretty legit. If you haven't gone to kentcdodds.com. Yet, it is cooler than you think it is. There's a lot that goes into that website. So, I had a team help me with the product planning and getting illustrations and had somebody help me implement the designs and all that stuff. It was a pretty big project. And then, by August of 2021, Ryan and I were talking, and I said, "Hey, listen, I want to update Epic React to use Remix because I just think that is the best way to build React applications. But I have this little problem where Remix is a paid framework. That's just going to really reduce the number of people who are interested in learning what I have to teach. And on top of that, like, it just makes it difficult for people to test things out." And so, he, around that time, was like, "Hey, just hold off a little bit. We've got some announcements." And so, I think it was September when they announced that they'd raised VC money and they were going to make Remix open source. That was when Ryan said, "Hey, listen, Kent, I think that it's awesome you want to update Epic React to use Remix. But the problem is that Remix isn't even 1.0 yet. The community is super small. It needs a lot of help. If you release a course on Remix right now, then you're not going to get any attention because, like, nobody even knows what it is." So, part of me is like, yeah, that's true. But also, the other part of me is like, how do people find out what it is [laughs] unless there's, like, material about it? But he was right. And he said, "Listen, we've got a bunch of VC money. I've always wanted to work with you. How about we just hire you? And you can be a full-time teacher about Remix. But you don't have to charge anything. You just, like, make a bunch of stuff for free about Remix." I said, "That sounds great. But, you know, to make that worth my while because I'm really happy with what I'm doing with this teaching thing, like, I'm going to need a lot of Remix." And so, Michael Jackson was like, "How about we just make you a co-founder, and we give you a lot of Remix?" And I said, "Okay, let's do this." And so I jumped on board with them as a year-delayed co-founder. I guess that's pretty common. But, like, that felt kind of weird to me [laughs] to be called a co-founder. But yeah, so I joined up with them. I worked on documentation a little bit, mostly community building. I ran Remix Conf. Shopify was interested in what we were doing. And we were interested in what Shopify was doing because, at the time, they were working on Hydrogen, which was one of the early adopters of React Server Components. And, of course, everybody was interested in whether Remix was going to be adding support for server components. And Ryan put together a couple of experiments and found out that server components were nowhere near ready. And we could do better than server components could as of, you know, the time that he wrote the blog posts, like, two years ago. So, Hydrogen was working with server components. And I put us in touch with the Hydrogen team—I think it was me—to, like, talk with the Hydrogen team about, like, "Hey, how about instead of spending all this time building your own framework, you just build on top of Remix then you can, you know, make your Shopify starter projects just, like, a really thin layer on top of Remix and people will love it? And this is very important to us because we need to get users, especially really big and high profile users, so people will take us seriously." And so, we have this meeting. They fly a bunch of their people out to Salt Lake. They're asking us questions. We're asking them questions and saying, "Hey, listen, this is why server components are just not going to work out for you." Well, apparently, they didn't listen to us. It felt like they were just like, "No, we're highly invested in this. We've already sunk all this cost into this, but we're going to keep going." And they did end up shipping Hydrogen version 1 on top of server components, which I just thought was a big mistake. And it wasn't too long after that they came back and said, "Hey, we're kind of interested in having you guys join Shopify." So, right after Remix Conf, I go up into Michael's room at the hotel with Ryan. And they say, "Hey, listen, Kent, we're talking with Shopify about selling Remix and joining Shopify," and kind of bounced back and forth on whether we wanted to do it. All of us were just not sure. Because when I joined Remix, I was thinking, okay, we're going to build something, and it's going to be huge. This is going to be bigger than Vercel, like multibillion-dollar company. So, I really kind of struggled with thinking, hey, we're selling out. Like, we're just getting started here. So, Ryan and I ended up at RenderATL in Atlanta at that conference. We were both speaking there. And Ryan didn't fill out the right form. So, he actually didn't have a hotel room [laughs], and so he ended up staying in my room. I intentionally always get a double bedroom just in case somebody needs to stay with me because somebody did that for me once, and I just...it was really nice of them. So, I've always done that since. And so, I said, "Yeah, Ryan, you can stay with me." And so, we spent just a ton of time together. And this was all while we were trying to decide what to do with Shopify. And we had a lot of conversations about, like, what do we want for Remix in the future? And it was there that I realized, oh if I want to take this to, like, multi-billion dollar valuation, I've got to do things that I am not at all interested in doing. Like, you've got to build a business that is worth that much money and do business-related things. On top of all of that, to get any money out of it...because I just had a percentage of the company, not actually any money. There was no stock. So, the only way you can get money out of a situation like that is if you have a liquidation event like an IPO, which sounds, like, awful—I [laughs] would hate to go through an IP0—or you have to be bought. And if you're worth $2 billion, or 3, or whatever, who can buy you? There's almost nobody who can buy you at that valuation. Do you really want to outprice anybody that could possibly buy you? And then, on top of that, to get there, that's, like, a decade worth of your life of working really superduper hard to get to that point, and there's no guarantee. Ryan would always say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. He was saying Shopify is a bird in the hand, and we do not know what the future holds. And so, we were all finally convinced that, yeah, we want to sell, and so we decided, yeah, let's sell. And as the sale date grew closer, I was getting excited because I was like, oh, I can be back on the TC39 because Shopify is, like, I don't know if they're actually sending delegates to the TC39, but I'm sure that they would be interested if I ask them to, like, "Hey, let's be involved in the evolution of JavaScript." And I know they're on the Web Working Group. Like, they're on a bunch of different committees and stuff. And I just thought it'd be really cool to get involved in the web platform again. And then, on top of that, I just thought, you know what? I'll just spend all my time teaching Shopify developers how to use Remix. That sounds like a lot of fun. As things drew closer, I got more and more uneasy about that. And I thought, you know, I could probably do just as well for myself by going full-time teacher again. I've done this thing before. I just really like being a teacher and, like, having total control over everything that I do. And if I work at Shopify, they're going to tell me, "Hey, you need to, like, do this, and that, and the other." And I don't know if I want to go back to that. And so, I decided, this is awesome. Super, super good job, folks. I think I've done everything for you that you need me to do. I'm going to bail out. And so, yeah, Shopify wasn't super jazzed about that. But the deal went through anyway. And that's how I ended my time at Shopify. WILL: I love it. It's lining up perfectly because you say you left Shopify to go back doing more teaching. And then you released another course; that's Epic Web, correct? KENT: Right. That was the reason I left Shopify or I didn't join up with Shopify is because I wanted to work on Epic Web. In this 2010s blog post, one of the last things that I mention...toward the bottom, there's a section, KCD EDU, which is basically, like, I wanted to help someone go from zero to my level as an engineer in a single place where I teach just all of the things that I can teach to get somebody there. And so I wanted to call it KCD EDU, but I guess you have to be an accredited university to get that domain or something. But that was the idea. Erin Fox, back in 2020 she said, "I'm expecting you to announce your online Kent C. Dodds engineering bootcamp." And I replied, "I'm planning on doing this, no joke." So, I've been wanting to do this for a really long time. And so, leaving Remix was like, yeah, this is what I'm going to go do. I'm going to go build KCD EDU. And I was talking with Ryan at some point about, like, what I was planning on doing in the future. And something he said or something I said in that conversation made me realize, oh, shoot, I want to build Epic Web Dev. So, I've got Epic React. I don't want Epic Remix. I want people to, like, be web developers. Remix is just, like, an implementation detail. And so, I went and I was relieved to find that the domain was still available: epicweb.dev, and so I bought that. And so, I was always planning on, like, even while I was at Remix, eventually, I would leave Remix and go build Epic Web Dev. So, that's what I did. Starting in August, I decided, okay, how about this: I will build a legit real-world web application, and then I will use that to teach people how to build legit real-world web applications from start to finish. If it's included as, like, knowledge you would need to build this web app, then that's knowledge you need to be able to build a full-stack application. That was the idea. So, I started live streaming in, like, August or September, and I would live stream almost everyday development of this web app. So, people can go and watch those on my YouTube channel. I would livestream for, like, sometimes six hours at a time with breaks every 45 minutes. So, I'd just put it on a break slide, go for a quick walk, or take a drink, whatever, and then I would come back. And I would just, like, so much development and live streaming for a long time. Once I got, like, in a pretty good place with that, the app I was building was called Rocket Rental. It's like Airbnb for rocket ships. So, you could rent, like, your own rocket ship to other people to fly. So, it had to be, like, realistic enough that, like, you could relate it to whatever you were building but not realistic enough that people would actually think it was a real product [laughs]. I worked with Egghead again. They actually have a sister company now called Skill Recordings that's responsible for these types of products. And so, I was working with Skill Recordings on, like, they would get me designs. And then I would, like, work with other people to help implement some of those designs. And then, I started working on turning this stuff into workshops. And with Epic React, we have this workshop app that you run locally so that you can work in your own editor, in your own environment, and with your own editor plugins and all that stuff. I want you to practice the way that you're going to actually exercise that practice when you're done––when you're working at work. And so we have this workshop app with Epic React. Well, that was built with Create React app, very limited on what you could do. And so, I started working on a new workshop app that I just called KCD Shop, that was built with Remix. And so, now we've got a bunch of server-side stuff we can do. And this server side is running on your machine. And so, so much stuff that I can do with this thing. One of the big challenges with Epic React was that the video you watch is on epicreact.dev, but the exercises you run are on localhost. And so, you have to keep those things in sync. You'd see, okay, I'm in exercise one on the videos. Let me go find exercise one in the app and then find the file exercise one. So, you've got, like, three different things you've got to keep in sync. And so, with the workshop app for Epic Web, I said, how about we make it so that we can embed the video into the app? And so, you just have localhost running, and you see the video right above the instructions for the exercise. And so, you watch the video that kind of introduces the problem that you're going to be doing, and then you read the instructions. And then we can also make it so that we have links you can click or buttons you can click in the app that will open your editor exactly where you're supposed to go. So you don't have to keep anything in sync. You go to the app, and you watch the video. You read the instructions. You click this button. It opens your editor. And so, that's exactly what I did. And it's an amazing experience. It is phenomenal, not just for the workshop learners but for me, as a workshop developer, like, creating the workshop––it's just been phenomenal. Because, like, we also have this diff view where you can see the difference between your work in progress and the solution. So, if you get stuck, then it's very easy to see where you went wrong. It also means that we can build even very large applications as part of our workshop and our exercise where there are dozens or hundreds of files. And you don't have to worry about finding them because it'll tell you exactly which ones you need to be working in, so all sorts of really, really cool things. So, this workshop app––actually, took a lot of time and effort to build. But now that it's done, like, people are going through it now, and they're just loving it. So, I built the workshop app, I put the first workshop of Rocket Rental into this workshop app, and I delivered it. And I found out very quickly that a full application with all the bells and whistles you'd expect, like, tons of different routes and stuff, was just too much. Even with the workshop app, it was just really pretty difficult for people to gain enough context around what they were building to be effective. So, I was concerned about that. But then, around the same time, I started realizing that I had a marketing problem. And that is that with Testing JavaScript, people know that they're customers because they're like, I'm a JavaScript developer, and I know how to test––boom. I'm a Testing JavaScript customer. With Epic React, I join this company; they're using React; I need to know React, boom. I'm a customer of Epic React. But with something like Epic Web, it's just so broad that, like, yeah, I am a web developer. I just don't know if I'm a customer to Epic Web. Like, is Epic Web for only really advanced people, or is it only for really beginner people? Or is it only for people who are using this set of tools or... Like, it's just a very difficult thing to, like, identify with. And so I wanted to de-emphasize the fact that we used Remix because the fact is that you can walk away from this material and work in a Next.js app or a SvelteKit app and still use so much of the knowledge that you gained in that environment. So, I didn't want to focus on the fact that we're using any particular set of tools because the tools themselves I select them, not only because I think that they are really great tools but also because the knowledge you gain from these tools is very transferable. And I'm going to teach it in a way that's very transferable. That was the plan. But I still had this issue, like, I need people to be able to identify themselves as customers of this thing. So, what I decided to do through some, like, hints and inspiration from other people was how about I turn Rocket Rental into a much simpler app and make that a project starter? And while I was at Remix, actually, I directed the creation of this feature called Remix Stacks. It's basically the CLI allows you to create a Remix app based on a template. I said I can make a Remix Stack out of this, and I called it the Epic Stack. And so, just took all of the concepts that came from Rocket Rental; applied it to a much simpler app. It's just a note-taking app, but it has, like, all of the features that you would need to build in a typical application. So, it's got a database. It's got deployment, GitHub integration. So, you have GitHub Actions to run tests and stuff. It has the tests. It has authentication already implemented, and even two-factor auth, and third-party auth, and file upload, and, like, just tons and tons of stuff built in. And so, people can start a new project and ship that and have a lot of success, like, skip all the basic stuff. So, I presented that at Remix Conf. I wasn't working at Remix anymore, but they asked me to run Remix Conf again, so I did. And I told them, "If I'm running it this year, I'm going to select myself to speak." And I spoke and introduced the Epic Stack there. And then that was when I started to create the workshops based on the Epic Stack. And so, now it was no longer we're going to have workshops to build Rocket Rental; it was we're going to have workshops to build the Epic Stack, with the idea being that if you build the thing, you are able to use it better, like, still following the same pattern I did with Testing JavaScript where we build a framework first. Like, before you start using Jest, we're building Jest and same with Testing Library. We do the same thing with React. Before we bring in React, I teach you how to create DOM nodes yourself and render those to the page and all of that. And so, here with Epic Web, I'm going to teach you how to build the framework that you can use to build applications. So, that is what Epic Web is, it's effectively we're building the Epic Stack. In the process, you learn all about really basic things, like, how do you get styles onto the page all the way to really complex things like, how do you validate a user's email? Or how do you implement two-factor auth? Or how do you create a test database? So, you don't have to mock out the database, but you can still run your test in isolation. Around this time was when my wife and I were trying to become pregnant. And we got the news that we were expecting, and we were super excited. And so, I'm thinking, okay, I've got to ship this thing before the baby comes. Because who knows what happens after this baby comes? So, I am talking with Skill Recordings. I'm saying, "We've got to get this done by October." I think it was May. And so, I was thinking like, okay, I've probably got, like, maybe eight days worth of workshops here. And so, kind of outlined all of the workshops. Like, I know what needs to be included. I know what the end looks like because I've got the Epic Stack. The end is the Epic Stack. The beginning is, like, a brand new create Remix app creation right there. So, I know what the start and the end looks like. I kind of can figure out how much time I need to teach all of that. And I said, "Let's do eight days." And so, we got that scheduled and started selling tickets. And we sold out 30 tickets in just a couple of days, and that's what we originally planned for. I'm like, well, gosh, I can handle 80 people in a workshop. I've done that before, but that's about as far as I go. I don't really like going that much. In fact, online, especially, I only like to go up to, like, 40. But we said, "Hey, let's knock this out of the park." So, we doubled it, and we sold another 30 seats. And so, it was sold out before even the early bird sale was over. So, that was pretty encouraging. The problem was that I hadn't actually developed this material. I'd already given one workshop about testing with Rocket Rental, and I'd given one workshop about the fundamentals with Rocket Rental. But I hadn't done anything of the authentication or, the forms, or data modeling. Also, like, Epic Notes app is different from Rocket Rental. So, I got to rebuild those workshops. Like, the first workshop was going to start in, like, two weeks, maybe three weeks. And so, I'm working on these workshops. And I'm like, I've finished the first workshop, which was going to be a two-day workshop, and so I get that done. And so, that next week, I'm getting close to finished on the forms workshop, and then I start the workshops. And that was when I started to realize, oh, shoot, I am in huge trouble because I have to not only deliver two workshops a week, so that's two days a week that I'm not able to work on the workshops, really. And then also develop the material as I go, which I don't normally do this at all because I just don't like stressing myself out so much. But, like, I'd had this timeline put together, and I'm like, I need to ship this by October. For about five weeks, I worked 80 to 100 hours a week, maybe more, in a row to get those workshops created [laughs]. And I do not recommend this, and I will never do it again. I can tell you this now. I didn't tell anybody at the time because I was worried that people would think, well, geez, is that the type of product you create, like, you're just rushing through this stuff? But I can tell you this safely now because the results speak for themselves. Like, these people loved this stuff. They ate it up. It was so good. I won't do this again. It's not something that I typically do. But it worked. And, like, I put in a crazy amount of work to make this work. People loved it. And yeah, I'm really, really happy with that. The next step, though, so it was eight days' worth of workshops in four weeks. And I realized, as I almost always realize when I'm presenting workshops, that, like, oh my gosh, I have way more material than I have time for. So, by

In this week's roundup episode, we cover how different frameworks handle reactivity, the differences between Vuex and Pinia, and the TL;DR of why Kent C. Dodds won't use Next.js. Links Apple The rendering dilemma with Atila Fassina: https://bit.ly/43rBbAN Mastering Pinia with Eduardo San Martin Morote: https://apple.co/3Gax3Mg Why I won't use Next.js with Kent C. Dodds: https://bit.ly/3SDZMjY Google The rendering dilemma with Atila Fassina: https://bit.ly/3pMSYEJ Mastering Pinia with Eduardo San Martin Morote: https://bit.ly/3SSNQv4 Why I won't use Next.js with Kent C. Dodds: https://bit.ly/3FZ9CWk Spotify The rendering dilemma with Atila Fassina: https://bit.ly/3PV64KD Mastering Pinia with Eduardo San Martin Morote: https://spoti.fi/3T9AB9x Why I won't use Next.js with Kent C. Dodds: https://bit.ly/3SBK8Wx We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guests: Atila Fassina, Eduardo San Martin Morote, and Kent C. Dodds.

In this repeat episode, Kent C. Dodds has a blog post for everything, and in today's episode he returns to PodRocket to talk about his blog post, “Fully Typed Web Apps.” Links https://www.epicweb.dev https://kentcdodds.com https://twitter.com/kentcdodds https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

Kent C. Dodds returns to explain why he won't use Next.js, offering insight into what he sees as the issues with using Next, why he uses Remix, and more. Links https://kentcdodds.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds https://twitter.com/kentcdodds We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

The hubbub of the web dev world right now is Next.js' integration of React Server Components, Kent C. Dodds writes up why he doesn't use Next, Lee Robinson responds with why he does, the NixOS team hits a milestone in their reproducible builds effort & OpenSign is an open source alternative to DocuSign.

Dax and Adam read through Kent C. Dodds' article on Why He Won't Use Next.js and give their thoughts on the web platform, independence, Next.js eating React, collaboration, experimenting on users, too much magic, and complexity. Oh and something's off with the X.Want to carry on the conversation? Join us in Discord.Links:Linear – A better way to build productsDax on X: “the rest of us have literally no hope” / XNext.js ConfHow About Tomorrow? | Next.js Conf 2022 RecapWhy I Won't Use Next.js | Epic Web Dev by Kent C. Doddssolidjs.comIndex - OpenNextScale & Ship Faster with a Composable Web Architecture | NetlifyRemix - Build Better WebsitesRefactoring UICustom fonts without compromise using Next.js and next/font – VercelMooToolsDomainr · fast, free, domain name search, short URLs, new gTLDs, whoisBuy a domain name - Register cheap domain names from $0.99 - NamecheapLive streaming with RiversideTopics discussed: (00:00) - Meeting Trash (00:30) - X feels off (03:28) - Design, easter eggs, and clothing style (08:05) - NextJS Conf is our origin story (10:07) - Why Kent C Dodds Won't Use Next.js (16:41) - Whatever you use is probably fine (19:21) - The web platform (24:10) - Independance (34:10) - NextJS is eating React (36:04) - Collaboration has gone down (40:22) - Experimenting on my users (45:16) - Too much magic (52:45) - Complexity (55:39) - Stability (56:34) - Capabilities (58:05) - Twitter's logo as a unicode character (01:01:40) - Back to the conclusion (01:05:07) - Tech conference fomo (01:08:00) - Is Dax an F1 fan?

The hubbub of the web dev world right now is Next.js' integration of React Server Components, Kent C. Dodds writes up why he doesn't use Next, Lee Robinson responds with why he does, the NixOS team hits a milestone in their reproducible builds effort & OpenSign is an open source alternative to DocuSign.

The hubbub of the web dev world right now is Next.js' integration of React Server Components, Kent C. Dodds writes up why he doesn't use Next, Lee Robinson responds with why he does, the NixOS team hits a milestone in their reproducible builds effort & OpenSign is an open source alternative to DocuSign.

In this week's roundup, hear snippets of our discussions about the recent release of Svelte 4 with Geoff Rich, Kent C. Dodds explains his newest stack, The Epic Stack, and Matteo Collina explains modular monoliths. Links Apple Svelte 4 with Geoff Rich: https://tinyurl.com/2tht8bu3 Matteo Collina on modular monoliths, Platformatic, and Pino: https://bit.ly/3CFD4id The Epic Stack with Kent C. Dodds: https://bit.ly/3qMQGFG Google Svelte 4 with Geoff Rich: https://tinyurl.com/uw2295f4 Matteo Collina on modular monoliths, Platformatic, and Pino: https://bit.ly/3pib956 The Epic Stack with Kent C. Dodds: https://bit.ly/3p6Lkor Spotify Svelte 4 with Geoff Rich: https://tinyurl.com/398dahva Matteo Collina on modular monoliths, Platformatic, and Pino: https://bit.ly/3CCYQU3 The Epic Stack with Kent C. Dodds: https://bit.ly/3X6GeVD Tell us what you think of PodRocket We want to hear from you! We want to know what you love and hate about the podcast. What do you want to hear more about? Who do you want to see on the show? Our producers want to know, and if you talk with us, we'll send you a $25 gift card! If you're interested, schedule a call with us (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/contact-us) or you can email producer Kate Trahan at kate@logrocket.com (mailto:kate@logrocket.com) Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guests: Geoff Rich, Kent C. Dodds, and Matteo Collina.

Kent C. Dodds is back again with his newest project, the Epic Stack, a stack curated by Kent aimed at giving devs the tools they need without overwhelming them with too many options. Links https://kentcdodds.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds https://twitter.com/kentcdodds http://EpicWeb.dev http://EpicReact.dev http://TestingJavaScript.com Tell us what you think of PodRocket We want to hear from you! We want to know what you love and hate about the podcast. What do you want to hear more about? Who do you want to see on the show? Our producers want to know, and if you talk with us, we'll send you a $25 gift card! If you're interested, schedule a call with us (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/contact-us) or you can email producer Kate Trahan at kate@logrocket.com (mailto:kate@logrocket.com) Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

SimonG hits the big time with an Ionic video course on Free Code Camp! We also break down the latest in the React Native world, ask the big questiosn about AI and finally discuss the latest stack suggestion from Kent C Dodds.Also, please leave a review at ratethispodcast.com/allthecode

Like the UX of a SPA but developing it is a nightmare

Kent C. Dodds has a blog post for everything, and in today's episode he returns to PodRocket to talk about his blog post, “Fully Typed Web Apps.” Links https://www.epicweb.dev https://kentcdodds.com https://twitter.com/kentcdodds https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds Tell us what you think of PodRocket We want to hear from you! We want to know what you love and hate about the podcast. What do you want to hear more about? Who do you want to see on the show? Our producers want to know, and if you talk with us, we'll send you a $25 gift card! If you're interested, schedule a call with us (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/contact-us) or you can email producer Kate Trahan at kate@logrocket.com (mailto:kate@logrocket.com) Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

In our first-ever mailbag episode, testing experts Debbie O'Brien, Gleb Bahmutov, and Kent C. Dodds answer your questions about testing. Links https://kentcdodds.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds https://github.com/kentcdodds https://twitter.com/kentcdodds https://kentcdodds.com/s/test https://glebbahmutov.com https://twitter.com/bahmutov https://www.linkedin.com/in/bahmutov https://github.com/bahmutov https://www.cypress.io/blog/author/gleb https://twitter.com/debs_obrien http://youtube.com/c/DebbieOBrien https://debbie.codes https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-o-brien-1a199975/ https://github.com/debs-obrien Tell us what you think of PodRocket We want to hear from you! We want to know what you love and hate about the podcast. What do you want to hear more about? Who do you want to see on the show? Our producers want to know, and if you talk with us, we'll send you a $25 gift card! If you're interested, schedule a call with us (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/contact-us) or you can email producer Kate Trahan at kate@logrocket.com (mailto:kate@logrocket.com) Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guests: Debbie O'Brien, Gleb Bahmutov, and Kent C. Dodds.

Kent C. Dodds wants you to be more confident as a developer AND have more fun!  All of us are familiar with the feeling of stumbling around between YouTube videos, blog posts, and documentation just copy/pasting code and hoping it'll work. The more skilled you are, the more you can get done and the more value you can provide. Kent shares his ideas with Scott on how WE can level up!https://kentcdodds.com/coursesInterested in investing in Zencastr? go to http://wefunder.com/zencastr to claim your slice of the Future of Podcasting!

Production is down!! Faulty code was released!! Users are losing your trust by the second!! Ugh, how did this happen and how could this have been prevented? By writing the right tests! Today, Jedi test master, Kent C. Dodds, joins us as we discuss all things testing, from the types of tests in your tool belt, how to write the right tests, when to run them, tools you can and should use, and ways to ensure your tests are performant. Kent is a world renowned speaker, educator, a beacon of inspiration in the tech community and has written an entire course focused solely on Testing Javascript. He graduated from BYU with a Master of Science in Information Systems, and has worked at companies like Domo, Alianza and PayPal. He is a Google Developer Expert and an instructor on egghead.io and Frontend Masters. He is actively involved in the open source community as a maintainer of projects like Glamorous, Downshift and Testing Library, and is a contributor to hundreds of popular npm packages. Prior to his current role, he co-founded Remix and worked as the Director of Developer Experience. Presently, our guest is a Software Engineer Educator working for himself and working on what he calls his magnum opus - EpicReact.Dev. When Kent is not teaching the world about software or spending time with his family he is cruising around on his onewheel or snowboarding. Prepare to become a Jedi test master!! Connect with Kent: Twitter Website Youtube Discord Show notes and helpful resources: The Testing Trophy blog post Why I never use shallow rendering blog post Avoid the test user blog post Making your UI tests resilient to change blog post Common mistakes with React Testing Library blog post Migrate from Enzyme to Testing Library documentation How to know what to test blog post Business and engineering alignment blog post Playwright - End-2-End testing library Vitest testing framework Building something cool or solving interesting problems? Want to be on this show? Send me an email at jointhepodcast@unfilteredbuild.com Podcast produced by Unfiltered Build - dream.design.develop.

Kent C. Dodds is a speaker, teacher, and trainer. Kent joins us to talk about how he rebuilt his website using Remix, how the industry is transitioning to a new and improved architecture for building web applications, and more. Links https://twitter.com/kentcdodds https://kentcdodds.com https://testingjavascript.com https://epicreact.dev https://www.epicweb.dev https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz-BYvuntVRt_VpfR6FKXJw https://egghead.io/q/resources-by-kent-c-dodds https://remix.run Tell us what you think of PodRocket We want to hear from you! We want to know what you love and hate about the podcast. What do you want to hear more about? Who do you want to see on the show? Our producers want to know, and if you talk with us, we'll send you a $25 gift card! If you're interested, schedule a call with us (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/contact-us) or you can email producer Kate Trahan at kate@logrocket.com (mailto:kate@logrocket.com) Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Kent C. Dodds.

Kent C. Dodds is a well-known JavaScript developer who has done myriad development courses and training. He's also done outreach for Remix. He's spoken at tons of conferences and his now working on creating EpicWeb.dev which helps developers become epic web developers.The Jabber crew starts out talking about learning, teaching, and EpicWeb.dev before going into the changes in the web platform and progressive enhancement and eventually Remix. Links: TestingJavaScript.com EpicWeb.dev EpicReact.dev Remix Fly.io Lightstream The Web's Next Transition blog post by Kent C. Dodds tRPC GraphQL Picks:AJ Extraordinary Attorney Woo When fixing a 4-wheeler, look at the larger component and compare prices. FourTrax 300 Dan Web Directions Summit War in Ukraine SteveStudy on why you can't tickle yourselfKent EpicWeb.dev Call Kent Podcast Kent's Travel Map Build Your House Yourself University Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Kent C. Dodds is a well-known JavaScript developer who has done myriad development courses and training. He's also done outreach for Remix. He's spoken at tons of conferences and his now working on creating EpicWeb.dev which helps developers become epic web developers.The Jabber crew starts out talking about learning, teaching, and EpicWeb.dev before going into the changes in the web platform and progressive enhancement and eventually Remix. Links: TestingJavaScript.com EpicWeb.dev EpicReact.dev Remix Fly.io Lightstream The Web's Next Transition blog post by Kent C. Dodds tRPC GraphQL Picks:AJ Extraordinary Attorney Woo When fixing a 4-wheeler, look at the larger component and compare prices. FourTrax 300 Dan Web Directions Summit War in Ukraine SteveStudy on why you can't tickle yourselfKent EpicWeb.dev Call Kent Podcast Kent's Travel Map Build Your House Yourself University

Kent discusses his role at Remix and why he loves the product so much.SponsorsHashnodeCreating a developer blog is crucial in creating an online presence for yourself. It's proof of work for your future employer. Hashnode makes it easy to start a blog in seconds on your custom domain for free. It's fully optimized for developers and supports writing in Markdown, rich embeds, publishing from GitHub repository, syntax highlighting, and edge caching with Next.js blogs deployed on Vercel. On top of these, Hashnode is free from paywall, ads, and sign-up prompts.Hashnode is a community of developers, engineers, and people in tech. Your article gets instant readership from their growing community.Check out Hashnode, and join the community.Daily.devdaily.dev is where developers grow together. It provides a community-based feed of the best developer news, helping you stay up-to-date. daily.dev aggregates hundreds of sources every few minutes and creates a personal feed for you according to your interests, whether it's web dev, data science, or Elixir. Anything you might be interested in, it has the content for you.Check out daily.devShow Notes00:00 Introduction01:33 Kents Background07:08 The Marketing of Remix09:08 Create Things You're Excited About11:06 Transparency and Honesty13:51 Sponsor: Hashnode14:37 Using Remix and What's Coming Soon24:49 Embracing the Web Platform32:14 How to Handle Databases37:15 Sponsor: Daily.dev38:16 Hate Tailwind?43:58 Tradeoffs

  Episode 247 Kent C. Dodds is a world renowned speaker, teacher, and trainer and he's actively involved in the open source community as a maintainer and contributor of hundreds of popular npm packages. Kent is a Co-Founder and Director of Developer Experience at Remix. He is the creator of EpicReact.Dev and TestingJavaScript.com. He's an instructor on egghead.io and Frontend Masters. He's also a Google Developer Expert. Kent is happily married and the father of four kids. He likes his family, code, JavaScript, and Remix.   Links https://kentcdodds.com https://twitter.com/kentcdodds https://blog.kentcdodds.com/   Resources https://remix.run/ https://remix.run/docs/en/v1 https://rmx.as/discord https://github.com/remix-run https://twitter.com/remix_run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsIWJpuxNj0 https://remix.run/blog/remix-vs-next https://remix.run/blog/remixing-react-router https://egghead.io/courses/up-and-running-with-remix-b82b6bb6 https://twitter.com/brandontroberts/status/1533598978658418689 https://remix.run/blog/remix-stacks https://remix.run/conf https://remix.run/docs/en/v1/tutorials/jokes   "Tempting Time" by Animals As Leaders used with permissions - All Rights Reserved × Subscribe now! Never miss a post, subscribe to The 6 Figure Developer Podcast! Are you interested in being a guest on The 6 Figure Developer Podcast? Click here to check availability!  

In this episode we discuss the history and mission of Prisma, the boundary between Prisma Client and Prisma Migrate, and whether developers need to know the difference between SQL and NoSQL.Austin Crim Home Page Twitter GitHub LinkedIn Prisma Home Page Twitter GitHub Links Prisma Data Platform Deploying Prisma to Cloudflare Workers Remix with Kent C. Dodds

Kent's Website Kent on Twitter Remix Epic React

Curious about using the full stack web framework Remix? In this episode of the Modern Web podcast, we're talking to Kent C. Dodds, Co-founder and Director of Developer Experience at Remix. They talk about how Remix formed, what Remix's current goals are, and where the team sees the technology going in the future. Kent also discusses the features offered by the framework, how the team's philosophies about web development inform these features, and the role Remix is playing in the JavaScript ecosystem. Finally, Kent talks about what's happening in the Remix community and invites listeners to get involved. Host Rob Ocel, Software Architect at This Dot Labs (@robocell)   Guest Kent C. Dodds, Co-Founder and Director of Developer Experience at Remix (@kentcdodds)   Sponsored by  Cloudways- PHP Cloud Hosting - Developer Friendly Managed PHP Hosting Platform Get up to 1 Month of Free Hosting by using code “MODERNWEB” and get a $15 free hosting credit. Cloudways offers peace of mind and flexibility so you can focus on growing your business and reaching new milestones instead of dealing with server management. With Cloudways, you get an optimized stack, managed servers, backups, staging environment, integrated Git, pre-configured, Composer, 24/7 support, and the choice of five cloud providers: AWS, DigitalOcean, Linode, Google Cloud, and Vultr.

In this supper club episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott talk with Tom Pretson-Werner about his work on RedwoodJS, the importance of documentation, and the new Redwood Startup Fund. AIOSEO - Sponsor Our Sponsor for today's episode is a popular WordPress plugin, AIOSEO, also known as All in One SEO for WordPress. It's becoming one of the most powerful SEO toolkit and is now used by over 3 million websites to improve search rankings. Shipshape (Whiskey, Web and Whatnot) - Sponsor Whiskey Web and Whatnot is different than your typical dev podcast. We show a lighter, more human side of developers you know and love, like a fireside chat with your favorite devs. Past guests include Tom Preston-Werner, Kent C. Dodds, Charlie Gerard, and of course Wes Bos! We have discussed everything from Next.js and TypeScript to Chuck's past life as a blackjack dealer, Cincinnati Chili, the best casseroles, and of course whiskey! Show Notes 00:34 Welcome 01:36 Guest introduction Tom Preston-Werner on Twitter Kai's Power Tools 04:23 Math is weird 07:21 User interface design 08:53 Sponsor: AIOSEO 10:24 What is RedwoodJS? RedwoodJS Chatterbug 15:31 Is JavaScript the stack you should be using these days? 18:40 Freedom vs decisions in software Where Good Ideas Come From 23:10 RedwoodJS docs and video strategy RedwoodJS Docs Readme Driven Development 29:13 The tech behind RedwoodJS Apollo Storybook 36:20 Sponsor: Shipshape (Whiskey, Web and Whatnot) 36:58 Redwood Startup Fund The Redwood Startup Fund 42:28 Supper club questions VS Code Netlify Hacker News RedwoodJS on Discord RedwoodJS Discourse RedwoodJS on Twitter Shameless Plugs Scott: LevelUp Tutorials Wes: Wes Bos Tutorials Tweet us your tasty treats Scott's Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes' Instagram Wes' Twitter Wes' Facebook Scott's Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

In this supper club episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott talk with Jared Palmer about Turbo Repo, how it fits in your tech stack, and what it was like being acquired by Vercel. Whiskey Web and Whatnot - Sponsor Whiskey Web and Whatnot is different than your typical dev podcast. We show a lighter, more human side of developers you know and love, like a fireside chat with your favorite devs. Past guests include Tom Preston-Werner, Kent C. Dodds, Charlie Gerard, and of course Wes Bos! We have discussed everything from Next.js and TypeScript to Chuck's past life as a blackjack dealer, Cincinnati Chili, the best casseroles, and of course whiskey! Show Notes 00:35 Welcome Jared Palmer 02:15 What is Turbo Repo? Turbo Repo Vercel tsdx 03:27 Where does Turbo Repo fit in your stack? 06:04 What are Google, Meta, or Twitter doing? 15:35 Sponsor: Whiskey, Web and Whatnot 16:45 What's the cost of adding Turbo Repo to a project? 21:19 Changing based on environmental variables 23:18 Does this replace how you define your workplace? 24:08 How do you share the cache? 25:25 What don't you cache? 27:35 What about Gatsby images? 28:44 Can Turbo Repo help with re-running compiles? 36:54 Supper Rapid Fire Questions Oceanic Next GitHub Dark Kotlin 52:47 Selling Turbo Repo to Vercel 55:49 Shameless Plugs Shameless Plugs Scott: LevelUp Tutorials Wes: Wes Bos Tutorials Tweet us your tasty treats Scott's Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes' Instagram Wes' Twitter Wes' Facebook Scott's Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

In this supper club episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott talk with Victor Savkin about NX Monorepo development. Whiskey Web and Whatnot - Sponsor Whiskey Web and Whatnot is different than your typical dev podcast. We show a lighter, more human side of developers you know and love, like a fireside chat with your favorite devs. Past guests include Tom Preston-Werner, Kent C. Dodds, Charlie Gerard, and of course Wes Bos! We have discussed everything from Next.js and TypeScript to Chuck's past life as a blackjack dealer, Cincinnati Chili, the best casseroles, and of course whiskey! Visit whiskeywebandwhatnot.fm or find them wherever you listen to podcasts. Strapi - Sponsor Strapi enables developers to build projects faster by providing a customizable API out of the box and giving them the freedom to use their favorite tool as it has both REST and GraphQL endpoints. Strapi is extensible and frontend agnostic, built to cover all your content use cases. Give Strapi a try at strapi.io/demo, find your missing content workflow piece on our marketplace,and learn more about Strapi and how it help you on our Youtube channel. Show Notes 00:29 Welcome 02:42 Guest introduction 04:07 What tools did Google use? 10:49 What do bigger companies use for version control? 14:40 What is Nx? Nx 21:02 How does Nx help you upgrade projects? 27:42 Sponsor: Whiskey Web and Whatnot 28:33 How does Nx fit into the existing tooling? 37:27 Sponsor: Strapi 39:02 Caching and skipping builds 44:50 The problem with caching 48:44 Is it used for images or video? 51:40 Small projects can benefit as well 53:13 Lightning questions Happy Hacking KB IntelliJ LunarVim VS Code 02:23 Shameless Plugs Shameless Plugs Scott: LevelUp Tutorials Wes: Wes Bos Tutorials Tweet us your tasty treats Scott's Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes' Instagram Wes' Twitter Wes' Facebook Scott's Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

In this episode we discuss building excellent user experiencers without embarrassment inducing code, the definition of a "center-stack framework," whether the technical benefits of partial hydration actually lead to better UX, and that time Kent almost died.Kent C. Dodds Home Page Twitter GitHub YouTube Remix Home Page Twitter GitHub YouTube Discord Links How I built a modern website in 2021 React Server Components and Remix Next.js Commerce Remix vs Next.js Remix vs. Next: Which React Meta-Framework Should You Use? Web Fetch API Remix v1

Huge shoutout to my guest, Kent C. Dodds ! Like what you hear? Connect with me- Website: www.taylordesseyn.com LinkedIn: Taylor Desseyn Tweet me: @tdesseyn Tik Tok: @tdesseyn Pics of the life, wife, daughter & dog: @tdesseyn