Podcasts about Trulia

Zillow is enforcing stricter MLS compliance, requiring publicly marketed listings to appear on the MLS within one business day — or be removed from Zillow and Trulia. This move could have major implications for agents, investors, and off-market deal flow. In this episode, Kathy Fettke breaks down what the policy means, why it's controversial, and how it could reshape transparency, competition, and control in the real estate industry. Topics Discussed: 00:00 Zillow's Shakeup 00:25 Zillow's MLS New Rules 01:00 Investor Impact 01:30 Buyer Visibility 01:50 The Controversy  02:28 Zillow's Reasoning  LINKS Download Your Free Top 5 Cities to Invest in 2025 PDF!https://www.realwealth.com/1500 JOIN RealWealth® FOR FREE https://realwealth.com/join-step-1 FOLLOW OUR PODCASTS Real Wealth Show: Real Estate Investing Podcast https://link.chtbl.com/RWS Real Estate News: Real Estate Investing Podcast: https://link.chtbl.com/REN Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2025/05/06/zillow-home-listings-new-guidelines/83447930007/ 

There has been a fundamental shift in understanding metabolic health and chronic disease, particularly Type 2 diabetes, challenging long-standing dietary dogma by emphasizing that insulin resistance is largely driven by overconsumption of refined carbohydrates, not dietary fat or red meat. While highlighting the success of carbohydrate restriction and ketogenic approaches, nutrition is being seen as a powerful tool for reversing diabetes—often more effective and sustainable than conventional medication. The implications are far-reaching, not only for individual health outcomes, but also for reshaping public health strategies in addressing today's chronic disease epidemic. In this episode, I speak with Gary Taubes, Sami Inkinen, and Dr. Greeshma Shetty about an approach to treating Type 2 Diabetes that works. I also discuss how red meat is not to blame, but we should be looking at high sugar and starch diets. Gary Taubes is an award-winning science and health journalist, and co-founder and director of the Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI). He is the author of The Case Against Sugar, Why We Get Fat, Good Calories, Bad Calories, and, most recently, The Case for Keto. Gary is a former staff writer for Discover and correspondent for Science. He has written three cover articles on nutrition and health for The New York Times Magazine, and his writing has also appeared in The Atlantic, Esquire, and numerous "best of" anthologies, including The Best of the Best American Science Writing (2010). He has received three Science in Society Journalism Awards from the National Association of Science Writers, and is also the recipient of a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Investigator Award in Health Policy Research. He lives in Oakland, CA. Sami Inkinen is the CEO and Co-Founder of Virta Health, a pioneer in reversing diseases like obesity and type 2 diabetes through a nutrition-first approach. Sami's personal connection to diabetes and passion to advance global health was the motivation behind Virta and its innovative care model. Previously, Inkinen was the co-founder of the leading online real estate marketplace Trulia, serving as its COO and president and board member until its IPO and eventual sale to Zillow Group. Dr. Greeshma Shetty, board certified in Internal Medicine and Endocrinology, currently serves as a Lead Clinician in the Virta Medical Group and the Director of Quality and Safety at Virta Health. Prior to joining Virta, she was clinical physician educator at Harvard Medical School, where she directed the combined Joslin - Beth Israel Deaconess Endocrine Fellowship program and Co-Directed the Asian American Diabetes Initiative. She is dedicated to clinical excellence, leveraging health technology, transforming healthcare delivery, driving health equity and building high performing teams. This episode is brought to you by BIOptimizers. Head to bioptimizers.com/hyman and use code HYMAN10 to save 10%. Full-length episodes can be found here: The Evolution of Diabetes Treatment How to Reverse Diabetes Naturally Does Red Meat Cause Type II Diabetes?

Pete Flint, General Partner at NFX and founder of Trulia, joins us for an expansive conversation on how AI is reshaping the foundations of entrepreneurship, platform economies, network effects, and defensibility strategies.Drawing from his deep experience as both a founder and an investor, Pete breaks down what it means to build in a world where CAC is difficult to change and requires expanding LTV by designing invisible, agent-powered experiences and adopting “stackable” approaches to product development.Speaking on the low barriers to entry for startups, he highlights why speed now trumps precision, saying, “There is no prize for being right, but there is one for being fast.”This conversation is a must for anyone navigating the fast-moving world of AI, platform innovation, and startup strategy.What does it mean to build a startup in a world of frictionless tools and unpredictable technological shifts?In this episode, Pete, one of the world's most prominent internet entrepreneurs, helps us unpack how the dynamics of company-building are being transformed - not just by AI, but by new patterns of behaviour, demand, and value creation. We explore consumers' hyper-personalised requirements and what that means for founders navigating shifting entry points and stackable business models. He also speaks on cultural foundations and how an organisation's ecosystem affects outcomes.For anyone grappling with how to lead or build in this dynamic landscape, this episode offers a take on what truly matters.Key Highlights

Kevin Hartz is Co-Founder and General Partner at A*, a venture capital firm specializing in early-stage investments. Before establishing A*, Kevin co-founded Eventbrite and guided the company as CEO for its first 11 years before it went public. His entrepreneurial journey also includes co-founding Xoom, a digital money transfer service that PayPal acquired in 2015 for over $1 billion. Kevin has established himself as a successful angel investor with seed investments in companies like PayPal, Airbnb, Pinterest, Ramp, Trulia, and Anduril. His investment portfolio also includes early stakes in prominent companies such as Uber, Palantir, SpaceX, Square, Gusto, and numerous others.00:00 - Intro04:25 - Kevin's North Star06:27 - The Bottleneck to Entrepreneurship09:20 - The Explosion of Capital in Private Technology Markets11:52 - Monopolies and the Shift in Private Enterprise Value Distribution15:18 - Do Public Markets Price Themselves In?16:37 - When Is VC a Suitable Capital Instrument?19:09 - Agglomeration and The Future of Venture Capital20:56 - Cost of Capital and Competing in Venture23:09 - Is Value-Add Real?25:33 - On IPOing27:14 - Picking and Magnitude of Outcomes28:41 - Founders and Investors as Personality Types29:56 - Seed and Growth Investing as Distinct Skillsets32:02 - Incubations33:56 - Symptoms of Excess Capital35:55 - Can You Kingmake With Capital?37:17 - When Does It Make Sense to Raise a Huge Round?38:17 - Capital Efficiency39:39 - The Expansion of Technology Markets41:51 - Capital Innovation in Venture43:47 - The Endgame of Evaluation44:33 - What Should More People Be Thinking About?

In this episode, we dive into the world of marketplaces with Pete Flint, co-founder of NFX, one of the leading venture firms specializing in network effects. Pete brings decades of marketplace experience, from the founding team at Lastminute.com to the creation of Trulia and its merger with Zillow. At NFX, Pete and his team have a unique perspective on how network effects drive defensibility in marketplace businesses.Here are three highlights from the conversation:The Key to Defensibility: Pete explains why network effects are the best form of defensibility for marketplace businesses and how they make companies resilient over time.AI's Role in Marketplaces: Pete discusses how AI is both disrupting and enabling marketplaces, and why it's creating entirely new marketplace models.The Best Advice for Marketplace Founders: Pete shares his top tips for aspiring founders, from identifying the hardest side of the marketplace to seizing opportunities during economic or regulatory change.Tune in to hear Pete's insights on building long-lasting, resilient marketplace businesses powered by network effects.

What's the secret to real estate success? In this episode, Leigh Brown sits down with Charis Moreno to explore how relationships, culture, and adaptability drive the industry forward. Charis shares her unique journey from technology to brokerage, offering insights on building strong agent-broker connections and thriving in a competitive market. Plus, don't miss the jaw-dropping story of how Charis stalked her dream home for years and scored the deal of a lifetime. Tune in for a blend of humor, heart, and hard-earned wisdom. You don't want to miss this one! Key takeaways to listen for Why culture, not commissions, is the secret to retaining top talent Strategies to thrive financially in a tough real estate industry Reasons human connection always beats the latest app or tool How persistence secured Charis' dream home and how it can help you Actionable insights to align broker and agent goals for mutual success Resources mentioned in this episode Realtor.com Trulia NextHome Shoe Show About Charis MorenoCharis is a seasoned real estate professional with over 20 years of experience, specializing in franchise growth, culture building, and fostering agent success. As Vice President and Chief Culture Officer at NextHome, Charis has played a pivotal role in expanding the franchise from zero to over 600 offices nationwide. With a background in sales leadership at Realtor.com and Trulia, she brings a unique perspective on blending technology and human connection in real estate. Connect with Charis Facebook: Charis Moreno Instagram: @onefittexan Email: charis@nexthome.com Connect with Leigh Please subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast app at https://pod.link/1153262163, and never miss a beat from Leigh by visiting https://leighbrown.com. DM Leigh Brown on Instagram @ LeighThomasBrown.   Sponsors "You Ask. Leigh Answers." Your Affordable Coaching Program Hey there, real estate pros! Are you ready for some more Leigh Brown wisdom in your life? Then don't miss out on my brand-new program, "You Ask. Leigh Answers." It's your exclusive gateway to the insights and advice you need to supercharge your real estate business. With "You Ask. Leigh Answers." you get Direct Access to Leigh Brown, directly! Expert Coaching, Community Connection, and Extensive Resources. Whether listening to this on the go or watching at home, sign up today at Answers.RealEstate and take your business to the next level. Trust me, you'll be glad you did!  

In this Episode I welcome on Sami Inkinen CEO of Virta Health to discuss Virta Health's approach to Type 2 Diabetes reversal' Virta Health utilizes a continuous remote care intervention (CCI) that incorporates individualized carbohydrate restriction, health coaching, and telemedicine to manage and reverse Type 2 Diabetes We cover topics such as: Impact of individualized carbohydrate restriction: The role of the patient-provider relationship: Addressing quality of food The Virta change model: GLP-1 Receptor agonists as a bridge: Sustainable solutions require addressing nutrition: Research Findings of Virta's approach. Long-Term Effects of CCI: A 2-year non-randomized clinical trial published in Frontiers in Endocrinology showed significant and sustained improvements in multiple clinical markers of diabetes and cardiometabolic health in the CCI group compared to the UC (usual care) group . These included reductions in HbA1c, fasting glucose and insulin, weight, blood pressure, triglycerides, and liver alanine transaminase . The CCI group also saw higher rates of diabetes reversal and remission . GLP-1 Deprescription: A recent study published in Diabetes Therapy explored the impact of discontinuing GLP-1 agonists in patients who had successfully integrated Carb-Restriction Nutrient Therapy (CRNT) supported by Virta's telemedicine model . The study found that patients did not experience weight regain after stopping GLP-1 medications, and while HbA1c levels increased slightly, they generally remained below the diagnostic threshold for diabetes About Sami: Join NowSami InkinenFounder, Chief Executive Officer Sami Inkinen is the Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder of Virta Health, the leader in diabetes reversal and sustainable weight loss. With a combination of proven nutrition, expert support, and advanced technology, Virta empowers members with the tools and knowledge to sustain changes for a longer, healthier life. A data-driven technology entrepreneur, Sami's personal experience with diabetes and passion to advance global health was the motivation behind Virta. Working with over 500 large employers, health plans, and government organizations across the country, Virta has helped over 100,000 members reverse their diabetes and obesity. Previously, Sami was co-founder of leading online real estate marketplace Trulia, serving as its COO, president, and board member until its IPO and eventual sale to Zillow Group, and held roles at Microsoft and McKinsey & Company. He also founded Fat Chance Row to raise awareness of the dangers of sugar and its connection to diabetes, rowing from California to Hawaii — 2,750 miles — with his wife, completely unsupported.  He holds a MS in engineering physics from the Helsinki University of Technology and a MBA from Stanford University, and is also a triathlon age group world champion and 8 hour 24 minute Ironman finisher, having completed seven Hawaii Ironmans. He lives in Colorado with his wife and two daughters, enjoying the outdoors and the delight of their small barn of egg-laying chickens. Socials Website: https://www.virtahealth.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/virtahealth/?hl=enFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/virtahealth/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/virta-healthYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/virtahealthX: https://x.com/virtahealth --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/onethingpod/support

In this episode of the Wild Health Podcast, host Dr. Mike Stone talks with Sami Inkinen, CEO and co-founder of Virta Health. They dive into Sami's transition from tech entrepreneur (co-founder of Trulia) to leading a groundbreaking mission to reverse type 2 diabetes and obesity at Virta Health. The discussion highlights the power of nutrition, technology, and lifestyle changes in managing metabolic health, as well as the influence of Finnish sauna culture on well-being. They also explore the potential role of GLP-1 drugs in chronic disease management, sharing personal experiences, scientific insights, and the critical role behavior plays in achieving long-term health success.

What the hell is going on in the real estate industry? More specifically what is going on with the future of buyer agency? Is the end near and will buyer agency cease to exist? I'm hearing of agents already "losing" buyers who are unwilling to pay a buyers agency fee at closing so is this the beginning of the end? Here's what I know for certain, if you don't change you will go out of business because here's the truth.  Commission compression is real and the future of buyer agency as an income stream is real. There is a large segment of the real estate buying population that does not see the value in paying 2.5-3% buyers agency fee. My Prediction: The average buyers agency fee will be 1-1.5% in the next 6-18 months. NOTE: Listen to this podcast to see the ins and outs of how to profit with mortgage legally. The Future Of Buyer Agency Compensation Is Through Ancillary Services Or Indirect Services If real estate agents and brokerages do not start making adjustments, they are at risk for a massive wake up call. We're talking about a 50% reductions on buyer agency commissions which WILL CHANGE the way the entire industry operates. However, it's not all doom and gloom because there is a massive opportunity here to because I believe a large part of the future of buyer agency compensation can be through mortgage. I made a post a on my personal Facebook page back in March stating that every loan office just became a buyers agent and i got a lot of shit for it.  In today's market I think my prediction is starting to see fruition because the opportunity to shift. “BUT MY COMPANY NAME IS… AND WE HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR 99 YEARS… OUR MARKET SHARE IS AMAZING & I DON"T NEED TO ADJUST!” Nobody gives a crap.  People care about one thing and that's their bottom line.  What is your alternative going to be with a buyer client when they say no to your buyers agency agreement? Are you just going to let them go because your ego is too big thinking you are "worth 2.-3%"?  Guess what, 100% of nothing is still zero. This is going to be one of th ebuggest challenges we see within the real estate industry over the next 12 months, but what are you going to do about it? Well, through a mortgage partnership you can legally collect anywhere between .5-.75% (lenders call these basis points) of the loan amount. So if you were to receive 1-1.5% commission as a buyers agency fee, you could not also receive additional compensation legally through referring the mortgage, which you probably do anyways 90% of the time. The Future of Buyer Agency Is Thinking Outside The Box Everything changed with the NAR lawsuit. This has changed the consumer expectations. In addition telling a byer they need to come up with an additional 2-3% plus their downpayment is a tough sell.  I'm not discounting buyers agency at all, the public is, I'm just trying to show you an alternative. The way real estate is bought and sold has changed dramatically in the last 15+ years. It was not long ago when consumers needed a real estate agent to obtain information on the buying and selling process. In today's world, buyers can get that information easily by turning on their computer and logging onto Zillow, Trulia, Red Fin, Realtor.com, and other property search related websites. The value of a buyer's agent has lost much of it's value in the eyes of consumers. Your Buyers Agency Value Proposition Has To Change People don't hire your broker they hire you, but you have to show them you're worth it. What do you do that nobody else does?  The client experience and your personal brand have never been more important. part of having a value proposition can be marketing yourself as a hybrid agent or a true one stop shop. Now your buyer clients can use you to help them find, negotiate, and finance their next property which is much different than someone who cannot offer that. People don't hire or remember what you do, they remember how you do it.

In this episode of The Room Podcast, we're joined by Sami Inkinen, co-founder of Virta Health, a company transforming the treatment of type 2 diabetes. Virta Health's mission is to not just manage, but reverse diabetes using personalized nutrition plans backed by clinical research. Sami also shares his journey from humble beginnings on a Finnish farm to co-founding the real estate platform Trulia, and ultimately, Virta Health. Key highlights include the current state and effect of GLP1 drugs in America alongside the growing prevalence of diabetes, overcoming skepticism and resistance to adopting non-traditional treatments for chronic diseases, and the intersection of technology and healthcare overall.For The Room Podcast in your inbox every week, subscribe to our newsletter.Follow us on Instagram Follow us on TikTok Check out our guide to podcasting here! Don't forget to subscribe to our channel on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Music!5:07 - Where did Sami grow up and how did that shape his view of the world?7:11 - Did Sami always think he would become a founder?9:12 - What was Sami's plan when he finished college at Stanford?11:16 - When did Sami know it was time to start his journey as a founder?14:30 - What was the aha moment behind Trulia?17:57 - What were some lessons learned from Sami's first startup journey?22:13 - How was Sami's experience with his first startup being acquired by Zillow?25:56 - What is the core product of Virta Health?27:41 - What is Virta Health's mission?31:43 - How does Sami feel about GLP 1 medications becoming mainstream?35:34 - What is Sami's approach on go-to-market strategy with Virta?38:04 - Who was the first person to say yes to investing in Virta?40:07 - How has Virta changed its clients' lives?45:09 - What has been the hardest part of breaking into the healthcare space?47:21 - Who is a woman in Sami's life that had a profound impact on him and his career?Brought to you by Perkins Coie and Mercury.**Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust; Members FDIC.WX Productions

It's not your fault, and you don't have to wait for hope, it's already here. That's a message from today's guest Virta Health CEO Sami Inkinen, the man on a mission to reverse diabetes in 100 million people. And guess what, he's doing it. With a 60% success rate in type II diabetes, and an average weight loss success of 14 kilograms, Virta health is leveraging the power of data, AI and human expertise to maximum potential and changing people's lives. If you are one of the millions and millions out there feeling hopeless, ashamed and given up on your chances of weight loss and diabetes success, stop whoever you are doing and listen to this potentially life changing 60 minutes.Sami Inkinen is the Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder of Virta Health, the leader in type 2 diabetes reversal and creator of a new standard in medical care for people living with type 2 diabetes, prediabetes, or obesity. A data-driven technology entrepreneur, Sami's personal connection to diabetes and passion to advance health on a global scale was the motivation behind Virta Health and its innovative approach to diabetes care.Previously, Inkinen was the co-founder of the leading online real estate marketplace Trulia, serving as its COO and president and board member until its IPO and eventual sale to Zillow Group. He also worked on Microsoft's strategy team for MS Office, and as a consultant for McKinsey & Company within the software, telecommunications, and government sectors.Join us as we explore:Why metabolic disease is the health apocalypse of our times, with 50% of urban adults being diabetic or obese, and how metabolic disease is at the core of ill health.The story of how Sami's company Virta began, and how they are winning their mission of reversing type 2 diabetes and obesity in 100 million people.The ins and outs of how Virta is reversing diabetes in 60% of their patients.Virta's incredible, novel payment structure - no objective results, you don't pay!Contact:Website: https://www.virtahealth.comSupport the showFollow Steve's socials: Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | Facebook | Twitter | TikTokSupport the show on Patreon:As much as we love doing it, there are costs involved and any contribution will allow us to keep going and keep finding the best guests in the world to share their health expertise with you. I'd be grateful and feel so blessed by your support: https://www.patreon.com/MadeToThriveShowSend me a WhatsApp to +27 64 871 0308. Disclaimer: Please see the link for our disclaimer policy for all of our content: https://madetothrive.co.za/terms-and-conditions-and-privacy-policy/

Join Ginger Wilcox and Sherry Chris as they kick off Season Two of the “What Moves Her” podcast. They delve into Ginger's impressive career journey, from real estate agent to executive roles in major companies like Trulia. The episode highlights the significance of professional relationships and cultural alignment in the real estate industry, culminating in Ginger's transition to leading Better Homes and Gardens Real Estate. For more info, follow us on whatmovesher.com and ⁠⁠⁠⁠instagram.com/whatmovesher.

Sami Inkinen of Virta Health joins Nick to discuss Lessons from Founding Trulia to IPO, How to Enter New Industries with No Experience, and Why Technology is Critical to Combat Diabetes in an era of GLP-1s. In this episode we cover: Early Days of Trulia, Product Market Fit, and Challenges Faced by the Founder Building a Successful Company Without an Exit Strategy Reversing Diabetes through Nutrition and Technology Using Biomarkers and Software to Track and Adjust Diet and Lifestyle for Optimal Health Addressing Obesity through Telemedicine and Value-Based Care Healthcare ROI and Patient Retention in a US-Based Digital Health Platform Managing Complex Stakeholders in Healthcare and Real Estate Industries Guest Links: LinkedIn Twitter/X Virta Health Website The hosts of The Full Ratchet are Nick Moran and Nate Pierotti of New Stack Ventures, a venture capital firm committed to investing in founders outside of the Bay Area. Want to keep up to date with The Full Ratchet? Follow us on social. You can learn more about New Stack Ventures by visiting our LinkedIn and Twitter. Are you a founder looking for your next investor? Visit our free tool VC-Rank and we'll send a list of potential investors right to your inbox!

Kevin Hartz is a Co-Founder and General Partner at A*, an early-stage venture capital firm. Prior to founding A*, Kevin co-founded Eventbrite, a publicly traded company, and served as the CEO for the first 11 years of the company. Before Eventbrite, Kevin co-founded Xoom, a money remittance company that was acquired by PayPal in 2015 for over $1BN. Kevin is also a prolific angel investor having backed companies such as PayPal, Airbnb, Pinterest, Ramp, Trulia, and Anduril at the seed stage, and was an early investor in Uber, Palantir, SpaceX, Square, Gusto and many others. In Today's Episode with Kevin Hartz We Discuss: 1. What Makes the Best Founders: What questions does Kevin always ask founders in the investment process? Does Kevin prefer serial or first time founders? Why? Does Kevin prefer founders who are new to a problem or who are insiders and experts? When Kevin has gotten a founder bet wrong, what did he not see that he should have seen? 2. The Exploding Term Sheet That Cost $10BN: How did an exploding term sheet for the seed round of Airbnb cost Kevin $10BN? What did Kevin see in the seed round of Airbnb that so few other investors saw? Does Kevin agree that the best businesses often start off as ridiculous or toys? 3. From World's Greatest Angel to VC with $600M AUM: Why does Kevin think a barbell strategy of Seed and Series C is best today? Does Kevin agree that the Series B and growth stage is dead today? Why does Kevin strongly disagree that seed is the hardest stage of the market? Why does Kevin think that venture is less collaborative than ever? How does Kevin approach when to sell vs when to hold a position? What are his biggest lessons from seeding and holding Opensea? 4. Learning From the World's Best Investors: What have been Kevin's lessons from his relationship with Peter Thiel? What have been Kevin's biggest takeaways from investing alongside Roelof Botha in many deals? What have been Kevin's biggest lessons from watching and observing the great Pierre Lamond?  

Join our live, virtual event for Memphis BRRRR properties on June 25th. Free. Sign up now at: GREmarketplace.com/webinar Compound interest in stocks gets worn down to less than nothing due to: inflation, emotion, taxes, fees, and volatility. I focus on the little-understood deleterious effects of volatility. DON'T focus on getting your money to work for you. Learn what to focus on instead. Compound leverage and OPM are the wealth-building flexes. We discuss how to use a lower down payment to achieve a potential 20% cash-on-cash return with the BRRRR Strategy. Join our live, virtual event for this at: GREmarketplace.com/webinar Resources mentioned: Join our live, virtual event for Memphis BRRRR properties on June 25th. Free. Sign up now at: GREmarketplace.com/webinar For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Keith's personal Instagram: @keithweinhold   Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold (00:00:01) - Welcome to GRE. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. Compound interest is weak. What kind of iconoclastic heresy is that? Oh, I've got even more. Including. Don't get your money to work for you. This is a wealth building show. So why don't we discuss 401 days in IRAs here? It's precisely because they're not designed to build wealth. We'll get into that then. A way you can achieve higher property, cash and cash returns than you can with buy and hold real estate today and get rich education.   Robert Syslo (00:00:38) - Since 2014, the powerful get Rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate, investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show host Keith Wine, who writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad Advisors and delivers a new show every week. Since 2014, there's been millions of listeners downloads and 188 world nations. He has A-list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki.   Robert Syslo (00:01:06) - Get Rich education can be heard on every podcast platform. Plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener. Phone apps build wealth on the go with the get Rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get Rich education podcast or visit get Rich education.com.   Corey Coates (00:01:23) - You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold (00:01:39) - We're going to go from Saint Helena Island to Helena, Montana and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get Rich education. Compound interest is weak. Compound leverage is powerful. And with both available to most anyone, why don't you have more leverage in your financial life? That was a long time listener. You probably understand that if you're a newer listener, your reaction to that is like, wait, what? I mean, your inner self is telling you something like that challenges my existing longtime belief about how compound interest builds wealth. In fact, I will fight to protect this core belief. Even Albert Einstein purportedly called compound interest the eighth wonder of the world.   Keith Weinhold (00:02:36) - All right, well, let's break down compound interest until it looks as impotent as it is, as pathetic as it is, and as fallacious as compound interest is in the sense that it applies to your life as an investor. Now understand, I once thought the same limiting way that perhaps you once did, and that most others still do. When I was out of college and at my first job, I thought that there could be nothing better than getting my money to work for me with compound interest. Oh, and then maybe even the layer on top of that with the tax efficiencies of, say, a 401 K, 400 3B4 57 plan or an IRA. Then I took a real interest in this stuff, and I soon learned that I don't want any of those things because they don't build wealth. I don't want compound interest. I don't want to focus on getting my money to work for me. And I don't want any of those government sponsored retirement plans either. And that's why today I don't have any of them now, I remember when I had this one particular appointment, a financial planning appointment a few years ago, and I had it with what I'll call a conventional financial planning firm.   Keith Weinhold (00:03:56) - Maybe I remember it so well because it was an in-person meeting. It was in a tall office building that I went to and visited in downtown Anchorage, Alaska. And when I was in this money manager's office where basically what he was trying to do is win me as a new client. That's fine. That's his business model. Well, he had this big paper and cardboard sort of laminated charts thing resting on an easel, and this chart was prominently placed in his office so that I or anyone could see it. It showed the rate of return over time of. And I forget which index it plotted. It was either the Dow or the S&P, but no matter. It showed the return line going up and to the right for over 100 years. Your classic chart go up. It gave the impression to a prospective new client like me that, oh well, I had the opportunity to buy into this. And if I just invest my capital with this money manager and pay him fees for managing it for me now, I was at the point where I was starting to become better educated on these sorts of things compared to a layperson, for sure.   Keith Weinhold (00:05:06) - And I had been a real estate investor for a while at this point. Well, that physical chart in his office resting on an easel, it showed something like an 8 or 10% stock market return over time. Let's just be kind and call it 10% annually. And that's the first time in my life that I ever remember asking the question when I asked that money manager something like the chart shows a 10% market return, but what would my return be after inflation? Emotion taxes, your fees and volatility. Mic drop. You could hear a pin drop. I'll tell you what. That money manager almost froze. He didn't know what to say. I just remember, he began his reply, starting with talking about how inflation was low at the time. And yes, CPI inflation was low at that time, but he just didn't have a good answer for me. He was overwhelmed. He may have not ever had anyone ask him a question like that in his life. That sure is how he acted. And needless to say, I left his office that day without ever becoming one of his investors.   Keith Weinhold (00:06:17) - All right, so then let's dig into it. I've scratched the surface a little. What is the problem with, say, a 10% average annual return compounded over time? I mean, that sounds rather attractive when it's presented that way. Well, first, what do you think that the real rate of. Long term inflation is some make the case that it's still 15% today, even though the current CPI is 3 or 3.5%, and anyone that's looked at it feels that measure, the CPI is understated. So what do you think you want to use 6%. How about 6% as the long term true diminished purchasing power of the dollar? Okay then will your 10% stock market return -6% or you're already down to a 4% inflation adjusted return? Then there's the emotional component to buy and sell at exactly the wrong time, because no matter what people say they're going to do, most people want to sell when stocks are low because they're discouraged and they're just tired of taking their losses and they want to cut their loss. And then conversely, people want to buy when stocks rise because they're encouraged and they say they're a momentum investor and they experience FOMO if they're not in and riding the stocks up, well, what did you just do then? You just sold low and bought high.   Keith Weinhold (00:07:42) - How much does that emotional effect drag down your 4% inflation adjusted stock return that were already down to now? I mean, are you already at less than zero? Then there's taxes. Even in a 401 or IRA, you either pay the tax now or you pay the tax later. It's not tax free. How far below zero is your real return? Now that it's taxed? The IRS won't adjust your tax for inflation on a capital gain. Then tack on the investment fees, which can be 2% or higher. If you've got a professional money manager like the guy I met with in downtown Anchorage, or the fees can be really low if you are in an index fund. But how far below zero are you now? And that brings us to the last drag on compound interest in the stock market. We're not even done yet, remember? Okay, all we've done now is deduct out inflation, emotion, taxes and fees. What about adjusting it down further for volatility. Let's look at how deleterious volatility is to this floored compound.   Keith Weinhold (00:08:48) - Interest builds wealth thesis right here. Because you know on a lot of episodes we've just glossed over that. It just comes down to math. If you're up 10% one year and down 10% the next year, you're not back to even run the math and you'll see that you've lost 1%. That's just simply math. And now I'm going to get wonky here for a moment, and I'll use a more extreme example to demonstrate my volatility point for you. But I must get that way in order to debunk this myth about how compound interest builds wealth, or the getting your money to work for you builds wealth. Time spent making up lost returns is not the same as positively compounding your return. Any time you're looking at the annual average performance of an investment, it is vital to check how that performance has been calculated. And bear with me here for a minute, because this is substantive. Say your collection of stocks or whatever it is, just your overall portfolio value. It doesn't matter. Say it's up 50% one year, down 40% the next, then 50 up 40, down 50, up 40 down again.   Keith Weinhold (00:10:05) - All right. That right there was a 5% average annual return. But your average annual return. That is a lie because a 5% return through arithmetic performance. That sounds better than what really just happened to your money. So in a mutual fund prospectus, you might see that as a headline number, the 5% average annual return. But that's a lie in the small print. That's where you're more likely to see this CAGR, the compounded annual growth rate, and the CAGR. That's usually going to be worse than what the average annual number is. That headline number. And in our example, the CAGR is -5.1%. In this case that's the geometric figure. That's what you really want to look at not the arithmetic one. It looked like the market was up 5%, but your real return on your money was down 5.1%, a delta of 10.1% then. And the more volatile your returns are, the wider and wider this difference becomes. Now, if there were zero volatility, your average annual return, the arithmetic thing and the CAGR, the geometric thing, they would be the same and there wouldn't be any need to have this discussion.   Keith Weinhold (00:11:35) - This discussion is. Germane because volatility exists in the stock market and its related derivatives. So small differences over time compound and see really the problem is over the decades in your conventional retirement account, if you think that you're going to be quadrupling your money over time, but you only double your money over time, now you can see how this becomes a major problem. Come time for your retirement when it's too late. All right. Now, if you didn't follow that part because there were a few numbers flying around, just remember this time spent making up for lost returns is not the same as positively compounding your return inflation, emotion, taxes, fees, and volatility that just broke down any conventionally invested nest egg to less than nothing. This is why volatility is worse for investments than most people think. Well, we had someone write in to our general mailbox a while ago. And by the way, we like to hear from you. You can always communicate with us here at GR either through email or voice at get Rich education.   Keith Weinhold (00:12:52) - Com slash contact that's get rich education comment. I'd love to hear from you and really appreciate having you as a listener. Well, a listener wrote in on our inbox. They're asking why, if we're a wealth building show, why don't we talk about the benefits of 401 or IRAs? Well, it's squarely because those things don't create wealth. They aren't even designed to build wealth, but they create the illusion of doing so, partly due to the myth of compound interest that I just explained. But there's more outside of any employer match for IRAs and just generally investing cash in mutual funds or stocks or ETFs, they all have another gigantic problem. It could be a problem even bigger than the compound interest fallacy, which I just addressed. And that is all you're trying to do is get your money to work for you. Getting your money to work for you does not build wealth. Show me some evidence that it does. All right. Well, what's the problem here with these 41K and IRAs? I think you know, where I'm going is that you don't get any leverage.   Keith Weinhold (00:14:06) - Where is your leverage? Every single dollar that you lock away there means that you don't get the opportunity to ethically use three x or four x of what you've invested in OPM, other people's money, which you can build wealth off of. Where is your compound leverage with those conventional vehicles? It's gone. It never existed in the first place. Plus there's typically zero monthly cash flow. Plus you could have it invested where you don't legally have to pay any tax. Instead any tax, because retirement fund investors either pay tax today or pay tax later. Real estate can permanently mitigate income tax like you can get with real estate depreciation and absolutely zero capital gains tax on your real estate with the 1031 exchange. But let's not let the compound interest versus compound leverage case go to rest here just yet okay. How does then compound leverage build wealth instead? Well, the most available means for you to get access to leverage OPM is with real estate. Well, let's just look at what's going on today. Today, per the Fhfa, national home prices, they're up 6.6% year over year.   Keith Weinhold (00:15:26) - That's the latest figure that's not too different than historic norms. All right then. Well, if one year ago you had made a 20% down payment on a property that's 5 to 1 leverage, so you just take your 6.6% home price appreciation rate multiplied by five, and there's 33% for you. You went from a 6.6% return on the asset to a 33% return on your money, because you got the return on both your money and the bank's money. The majority is from the bank, OPM. So if you got a 33% return in year one, maybe it's 26% the next year and 21% the following year. It will go down over time as equity accumulates. And that's compound leverage. That's the wealth builder. And notice what else? Now that you know how destructive volatility is to returns, there is less volatility in real estate asset values. So now you're really on the path because you have a durable wealth builder. And then of course in real estate those high leverage returns are one of just. Five ways you can expect to be paid, but that one is the biggest leveraged appreciation.   Keith Weinhold (00:16:41) - That is the biggest return source of the five over time. And now you better understand why you don't want to set up your investor life to optimize getting your money to work for you. You don't want that. It's to get other people's money to work for you. And my gosh, mathematics makes compound interest in getting your money to work for you look amazing. But the real world proves that compound interest in getting your money to work for you is a farce, and it will keep you working at a job, maybe a soulless job until you're old. But the sheep believe it. You're listening to this show, so you're not a sheep. You're not among the masses. If you do what everyone else does, you'll only get what everyone else got. If you want wealth for yourself. All right, well, then, do you see that? You would have to think differently. And do you think that you would have to learn new things and then act differently than the masses? Well, yes, of course you do.   Keith Weinhold (00:17:41) - You can either go through life as a home run hitter or as a bunter. Most people are afraid to do anything other than learn how to be a bunter. And that's why the most popular personal finance platforms give the worst advice that limit you and keep you small. It's because they're talking to people with average or below average mindsets, not below average intelligence, but an audience of average or below average mindsets, which are the masses and they're just striving to get to a level of mediocrity, okay. They cater to financially irresponsible people that are just trying to get up to a mediocre level. And you know what? I was recently listening to one of these shows, I'll call it, a get rid of your debt and invest for compound interest and get your money to work for you shows. One caller called in. He and his wife got a $60,000 windfall from an heir. And they're wondering what they should do with the money. And they owned a home valued at 500 K, with 320 K left on the mortgage, which was a 3.25% interest.   Keith Weinhold (00:18:53) - And the guidance that the host had for this caller. I'm not kidding. Here was to use the 60 K to pay the 320 K mortgage down, so then they'd only owe 260 on the mortgage. I'm not kidding. That was the recommended course of action. And this is not an aberration. I've heard this same guidance with other callers on this conventional show. I mean, the opportunity cost of such a misguided move, what has he done when he pays down his mortgage? 60 K like that. He lost liquidity, he lost leverage. And it didn't even help with his cash flow. Because with a fixed amortizing loan, your monthly payment is the same the following month. Anyway, that 60 K, instead of being used to pay down a mortgage that could have been leveraged again by purchasing, say, a 250 to 300 K rental property. So my point is that conventional guidance does not build wealth in financial freedom. When you're actually young enough to enjoy it, you do things like learn how to get out of debt and then solely grind for decades, doing so, all while paying the opportunity cost of being leveraged less for the opportunity cost of targeting something like debt free, which is the wrong target rather than being financially free.   Keith Weinhold (00:20:18) - It's just like, if you want a wealth coach, well, then you don't hire and listen to guidance from a mediocrity coach. It's the same is if you want to learn how to skydive, then don't ask a basketball coach because you're going to die. We practice what we preach here at GRA. Now me what would I do if I had a paid off rental property or paid off home? Well, first, I've never had any residential rental property paid off in my life. Not one. Although I could, I'd recognize the opportunity cost of zero leverage. But just say, hypothetically, a paid off home fell in my lap. What's the next thing I do? I would go get the maximum loan against it, and then I'd have access to cash that I could invest in other properties. But what about these new loans that I'm taking out? What happens with them? I'm not concerned because both tenants and inflation pay it down passively, without my involvement at all, without my grinding for it at all, without me trading my time for dollars at all.   Keith Weinhold (00:21:27) - Well, I am really glad that we got into this here in the first segment of today's show. If you're near the show, it probably gave you a starting point for. Some new topics to search. Maybe you should start with learning the difference and reading more about average annual return versus compounded annual growth rate. It's really eye opening. And yes, you've heard me say on the show before that stock returns are dragged into negative territory with inflation, emotion, taxes, fees and volatility. And what's new here today is that I took the volatility component and broke it all the way down for you. There is a real paradox out there in America and elsewhere. You know, people spend all this time learning about how work works, zero time learning about how money works. And yet money is the main reason that people go to work. So congratulations so far on educating yourself some more today. Suffice to say, compound interest does not build wealth. If you're focused on getting only your money to work for you, you are really missing out on leverage through OPM.   Keith Weinhold (00:22:38) - And the good news here is that you actually don't have to believe everything that you think. Even if you thought the same way for years or decades. Chances are you're by yourself when you're listening to me right now. So that way you can change your mind all on your own without anyone thinking that you're wishy washy. Is it iconoclastic? Yeah, sure it is. If you're going to live an outsized life, if you're going to have an outsized impact in this world and on others, then you don't want to get labeled as normal. I mean, me, myself. I want nothing to do with normal. You can learn more on topics like this with our Don't Quit Your Day Dream email letter that makes it visual for you. Get it free at get Rich education com slash letter I write every word of the letter myself again. Get it at get Rich education.com/letter or it's quicker while it's on your mind right now. Text gray to 66866 to get the letter. Text gray to 66866. More straight ahead on how to potentially achieve cash on cash returns of 20% plus with real estate today.   Keith Weinhold (00:23:58) - That's next. I'm Keith Reinhold. You're listening to get Rich education. Your bank is getting rich off of you. The national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings. If your money isn't making 4%, you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk. Your cash generates up to an 8% return with compound interest year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% sitting in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25 K. You keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back there. Decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And I would know, because I'm an investor, to earn 8%. Hundreds of others are text family 266866. Learn more about Freedom Family Investments Liquidity Fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866. Role under the specific expert with income property you need. Ridge lending Group Nmls 42056. In gray history from beginners to veterans, they provided our listeners with more mortgages than anyone.   Keith Weinhold (00:25:21) - It's where I get my own loans for single family rentals up to four Plex's. Start your pre-qualification and chat with President Charlie Ridge personally. They'll even customize a plan tailored to you for growing your portfolio. Start at Ridge Lending group.com Ridge lending group.com.   Ken (00:25:48) - This is Rich dad advisor Ken McElroy. Listen to get Rich education with Keith Reinhold and don't quit your daydream.   Keith Weinhold (00:26:06) - We're talking about how to profit more and faster than with buy and hold property with the BR real estate investing strategy will tell you more about a live virtual event tomorrow night, with more about it where you can attend from the comfort of your own home and have any of your questions answered in real time. And can is with me today to talk about it. Welcome in. Hello, Kate. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation to be.   Ken (00:26:32) - A part of the get Rich education podcast.   Keith Weinhold (00:26:34) - Oh, we're honored to have you. Tell us a little more about yourself. First, you're Memphis based and you're part of a real estate family. Your wife is a realtor.   Keith Weinhold (00:26:44) - Yes, that is true. I have been in.   Ken (00:26:46) - The real estate industry in Memphis, Tennessee since 1992. I believe I was born to be in real estate. If real estate's in my DNA. If you cut me open little houses, duplexes, commercial buildings and multifamily apartments will drip out. I am pure real estate.   Keith Weinhold (00:27:05) - And you definitely came up in the right place for that. For us major metros, you're in perhaps the best cap rate market. Now. A lot of people are familiar with fix and flip real estate, maybe something that they've seen on HGTV where you buy low, you fix it up and you sell it for more. In fact, a lot of people think that's what real estate investing means. And others, they think of real estate investing more passively by identifying a good property that's already fixed up for you with a tenant in it, and ready property management. That's sort of the turnkey way. Tell us more about the BR, where I think of it as using elements of both the fix and flip world and the buy and hold world, putting them together to produce high returns and even infinite returns.   Ken (00:27:54) - That is correct. So what we're doing and what we offer, it's a hybrid, turnkey and BR, we call it BR key a nice. So basically that acronym as you know it stands for buy, renovate, rent, refinance and repeat. And we've added the key to it because we do all of the turnkey worked for our investor clients. We do all of the heavy lifting. So we turn BR into a passive investment where we find properties through our sourcing, we vet the properties and then the properties are offered to investors in as is condition. We provide a desktop appraisal which provides a future estimated after repair value after the property has been renovated. We seek out appraisers who are certified, who are licensed in the areas in the markets that we provide properties in, so that we're not just shooting at the door on a future value, basing the values on what Trulia says or Zillow or Redfin and what have you. So it's a real certified value from a licensed appraiser. Then we have licensed contractors to provide the scope of work and an estimate on how much the renovations are going to cost.   Ken (00:29:24) - And then we do we have a relationship with an in-house property manager. The property manager markets the property, leases the property out, and our target market is partially section A, government subsidized tenants, because we found that in the Memphis, Tennessee area is that section eight pays more than market rate in most instances. And I like to say that section eight rent payments, the recession proof, they're Covid proof, they're pandemic proof. I have not received a call yet. And section eight says, hey, we could not get your section eight payment out because of Joe Biden not being able to sign the check, or he didn't work last week, or Donald Trump could not sign the check or what have you. But time and time again, those section eight payments, even during the pandemic, they always showed up at the beginning of the month without fail.   Keith Weinhold (00:30:25) - I have rented to section eight tenants myself, and I can attest to that. That check just keeps coming in. You have to have a case manager come in and take a look at the property.   Keith Weinhold (00:30:38) - Prior to that section eight tenant being placed. Section eight a government subsidized housing program for those that qualify. But now that we've talked about the tenant, some what which is the rent are if we look back at the first are in the borough that is the rehab. You could also call that first are renovation. And really what you're doing there is you're eliminating friction for a lot of people because one thing that turns. People away from the Bir or concerns them about the BR. Is that first r the rehab because they find it daunting or intimidating to manage contractors? A lot of people don't want to have to manage contractors, and those that do, they don't want to do it again. But the thing is, is that you formed a team of contractors, property managers, project managers to manage those contractors and lenders to assist with that entire BR key process, making it pretty hands off for the investor.   Ken (00:31:37) - That's absolutely correct. So we have the relationships with contractors your locally that we've vetted that have proven themselves.   Ken (00:31:46) - They're true blue and these contractors have withstood the test of time. We develop relationships with electricians, plumbers, heating and air conditioning guys, roofers, painters, flooring experts, guys that can do kitchen cabinets, countertops, everything from the router to the tuner. And we also have excellent relationships that we've developed not only with the big boxes, Home Depots, Lowe's, but there are actually many locally owned mom and pop family owned supply houses that we are able to get better prices on some items versus the big boxes. So if those savings are passed on to the investor clients that our project managers and contractors are renovating those properties for.   Keith Weinhold (00:32:41) - I want to talk more about how that's actually going the actual track record with that team. But before we do, if we talk bigger picture, let's look at some real numbers on an example property so that one can understand the overall process. On why BR is attractive to investors, and why they can put substantially less money into the deal than they can with what we would call a deal that's already completely done for you.   Keith Weinhold (00:33:08) - Turnkey.   Ken (00:33:09) - Yes, and I like to use a $100,000. It's a nice round number, right.   Keith Weinhold (00:33:16) - Inflation is basically it, but you can still find some.   Ken (00:33:19) - Yes. So an example said hypothetically, if we had a vetted property that was available to be purchased by an investor client, and that appraised value after repairs is estimated to be $100,000, we simply take 75% of that after repair value of $100,000, and we arrive at 75,000. So we work in reverse, in a sense. And if the contractor has estimated that the renovations, labor and material cost is going to be $25,000, 75,000, 75% of the 100,000, -$25,000 in renovation expenses that would leave $50,000. So the actual purchase price of the property would be $50,000 plus $25,000 in renovations. So the investors approximate all in is $75,000. That doesn't take into consideration title company fees, homeowners insurance. We encourage all of the investor clients to get a six months builder's risk policy from one of our sources that we use here locally, but of course, all of the investor clients are free to use or choose whomever they'd like to.   Ken (00:34:53) - So the property is purchased for 50,000. The renovations, which are high quality, are done for 25,000. So now the investor is all in for $75,000. Now we're at that second stage, and many times the renovations are completed before the property is rented. So though that second and third are kind of interchangeable, sometimes we the property's refinanced before it's rented, sometimes it's rented before it's refinance. So in a perfect world, the property has been rented to a client. So if the client's all in for $75,000 and we have what we created, our own 1% rule of thumb. So if the investor is all in for 75,000 and the numbers are still based on renting it for maybe 1% of the value. So we find that our rent versus price return is more than 1%. So in many cases we blow that 1% out of the water. We're talking about the.   Keith Weinhold (00:36:01) - Monthly rent being 1% or greater of the overall value or purchase. Price of the property.   Ken (00:36:06) - Yes, sir. That's true. That's correct. So after the property is rented for, let's say, $1,000 per month.   Ken (00:36:15) - Now it's time to get the property appraised. We do have lending partners that are very experienced with investment refinancing, whether it's conventional or whether it's DSC or refinancing. So now the appraiser comes out to the property after the investor client has made loan application. The investors appraiser comes out and voila, the property is totally renovated. It's rented out. The appraiser appraises the property for $100,000 plus or minus. It may appraise for 95, it may appraised for one T, and so on, so forth. So what happens with the investment refinancing the loan to value or LTV is usually 75%. It's not typical for the lender to refinance at 80% or 85% of the refinance. But with investment financing, refinancing nowadays is typically 75%, so the praise is for 100,000. The lender lends 75% of the 100,000, which is 75,000 on the refinance. So now the investor who has paid cash or possibly obtained a hard money loan or private financing in order to purchase the property, their coffers are replenished with it. 75,000 were either the hard money or the private.   Ken (00:37:42) - Long is paid off, and the investor now has a property that they've refinanced for 75,000. That's worth 100,000. But the key is now they've refinanced and they're at that final, or now they're able to repeat the process, rinse and repeat, re-up whatever you want that are to me. But it basically means you can reuse that $75,000 again to purchase your second property. Third property, you're able to scale quickly or pay off the hard money lender. And the hard money lender says, hey, I don't need this $75,000. Do you own it again to buy property number two? We're property number three. And it just goes on. And I'd like that word that to use key efficient.   Keith Weinhold (00:38:28) - Right. Because in at least one of the scenarios you described there, you would have no money left in the deal and 25% equity in the property.   Ken (00:38:37) - That is correct because even though the investor is all in for 75,000, that new roof, the new windows, the new luxury vinyl plank flooring, the new HVAC system and so on, so forth.   Ken (00:38:53) - Those improvements cause to happen is called force appreciation. It's worth more than $75,000 because of all of the improvements that have been made to $25,000 to new light fixtures, the pretty paint color, the new mailbox, the landscaping. So we found that many of the houses that we offer, they once were the ugly ducklings of the neighborhood. Now they're the beautiful swans of the neighborhood, and they're the homes and houses that people flock to that they prefer to living.   Keith Weinhold (00:39:30) - Yeah. So we're talking about some of those rehabs you might LVP the floor do a kitchen fluff up. By that I mean maybe you're saving and painting the cabinets, but replacing the countertops, new light fixtures, perhaps keeping bath tile in place, but glazing it and then bringing everything to code?   Ken (00:39:47) - Yes, sir. That's absolutely correct. And we do have a really nice design for our properties. We use really nice neutral colors when it comes to the tile, to the paint, the flooring, the vent hood color, so on, so forth.   Ken (00:40:02) - And you mentioned code enforcement, which we had excellent relationships with the Memphis Shelby County Code Enforcement officers, whether it comes to the electrical inspection, plumbing inspections, what have you, we have really good relationships with those government officials.   Keith Weinhold (00:40:20) - You might want exotic colors for your own home, but in a rental property you want to go neutral. It can take a while to rent a purple kitchen. Now talk to us about the the timeline to rehab and refinance a property. How many months or days does that take? And I'm looking for an not an optimistic scenario, but a realistic scenario and a real life track record of what you've done. Because I've known that our followers have bought a number of properties from you.   Ken (00:40:49) - Yes, our average turnaround time right now is approximately 90 days. The quickest turn that we've ever done from acquisition all the way to the final stage of refinancing was 32 days. But that particular property there was the scope of work of $15,000. It was really clean. Okay, already had a new roof, the AC system was already top knots, so there was just very few things that had to be delivered.   Ken (00:41:21) - But on average it's about 90 days from start to finish. And in this part of the country the weather's quite nice, especially during the summertime. It's very hot, but we are hit occasionally in the wintertime with snow and ice, and it paralyzed the city of Memphis because we're just not equipped the way the northeast is and some other parts of the country when it comes to snow and ice. So we push back our estimated time frame to complete a Berkey property during the winter months to about 120 days. But our average is 90 days, and we tend to we like to under-promise with the 90 days, but we may hit our target in 75 days or 80 days, and we just recently had some properties that we should be able to smash the all time record of 32 days, where we may be able to get from a buy to refinance done, and maybe 21 days.   Keith Weinhold (00:42:21) - Wow. That's the result of a well refined system. And I would submit to most any listener to try to do that across state lines or even in your own home market, as you're trying to manage contractors and codes and inspectors and appraisers and lenders and everything else, you're going to join us with our investment coach narration, co-hosting Gre's live virtual event.   Keith Weinhold (00:42:47) - Alex, a little bit more about what one can expect there. Attending the live virtual event to learn more about what.   Ken (00:42:54) - One can expect is that we will have, I guess, actual numbers on properties that are available, scopes of work, rental amounts that are based on our studies with the data that section eight provides, as well as the local market rents for cash paying tenants. So I do want to make it clear we do have cash paying tenants as well. But we do offer to the investor clients a choice. If we have a four bedroom property, for example, that section 8th May possibly pay 1700 a month for, and then all of a sudden we get a cash paying tenant that's willing to pay 1600. We present the information to the investor to say, hey, would you rather hold out for the $1,700 section eight tenant? Or would you rather go with the $1,600 cash flowing ticket that works at Blue Oval City, the electric vehicle plant that's on the outskirts of Memphis, about 30 miles outside of Memphis at the end.   Ken (00:44:01) - Who knows? Real soon. It was just announced yesterday that X, I and Elon Musk, they've chosen the city of Memphis to be the headquarters for the world's largest supercomputer. So we're looking forward to the benefits and economic boom that that's going to add to the Memphis market.   Keith Weinhold (00:44:23) - All right. So we've got some economic drivers behind this. Learn more about vetting tenants. Berkey and importantly, the value added here. By bringing that team, especially those contractors that are being managed for you with the Berkey join Jerry's live virtual event. It's where you can attend live in real time. You can ask questions if you wish that way, and you can do it all from your own home. Gree investment coach extraordinaire Naresh is going to co-host it along with my guest Ken. Here it is free to attend free learning and if you wish, expect a buying opportunity for property conducive to the BR. Often single family homes two, three and four bedroom properties in Investor Advantage Memphis, you'll learn which properties are right for this and which ones are not.   Keith Weinhold (00:45:10) - Attend tomorrow night it is Tuesday the 25th at 8:30 p.m. eastern, 530 Pacific. Attend tomorrow and sign up now at GR webinars.com. You can do it right now while it's top of mind for our live event that is at Gray webinars.com. Hey, it's been great having your insight. Thanks so much for coming on the show today.   Ken (00:45:33) - Thank you. You're welcome.   Keith Weinhold (00:45:40) - Between last year and this year, more followers have bought from this provider in this system than any other in the entire nation. Strong deals with less out of pocket for the investor. And maybe you don't prefer a section eight tenant. You can ask about that during the virtual event. And again, what was I saying here last week? This is the event that's a bigger deal than Olympic handball. Really though I would like for you to attend. This is entry level housing. So you're going to own a scarce asset that everyone wants. Expect to be in for a little of your own skin in the game, and you'll own a leveraged asset of tangible value that down the road.   Keith Weinhold (00:46:27) - Demographics say that people will desire to first rent from you and then later buy from you. If you think that it can benefit you and you like to learn, then I'd really like you to attend tomorrow night. I invite you Tuesday the 25th at 8:30 p.m. eastern, 530 Pacific. Register free now at Gray webinars.com. Until next week. I'm your host, Keith Wild. Don't quit your day dream.   Speaker 5 (00:46:58) - Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get Rich education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold (00:47:26) - The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com.  

Virta Health is one of the greatest success stories in health tech today. Join us for an insightful StartUp Health NOW episode featuring Sami Inkinen, the visionary CEO & Founder of Virta Health, a pioneering company focused on the reversal of Type 2 diabetes. In this Masterclass, originally recorded in front of a virtual audience of entrepreneurs in the StartUp Health community, Inkinen – also a member of the community – shares his journey and the innovative strategies behind Virta Health's success. Inkinen's impressive background includes co-founding Trulia, leading it to a successful IPO and eventual sale to Zillow Group. At Virta Health, he's raised $366M and achieved a $2B valuation, with the company recognized as a TIME100 Most Influential Company in 2023. Beyond his business acumen, Sami is a world-class athlete and health advocate, known for his rowing expedition to raise awareness about diabetes. In this episode, Inkinen delves into: The biggest surprises he faced as a health tech founder Balancing his roles as CEO, father, and husband The strategic planning rhythms that drive Virta's mission His personal journey, from existential crises to global health impact As is typical of members of the StartUp Health community, Inkinen is generous in sharing his wisdom. Tune in to learn from his experience and gain valuable insights into leadership and achieving sustainable product-market fit in the digital health industry. Innovating in Alzheimer's disease? Learn how you can join our new Alzheimer's Moonshot. Want more content like this? Sign up for StartUp Health Insider™ to get funding insights, news, and special updates delivered to your inbox. Innovators: Health Transformer University fuels your health moonshot Funders: Become a Health Moonshot Champion

In this episode, we speak with Sami Inkinen, the Founder and CEO of Virta Health. Virta is an online specialty medical clinic that reverses type 2 diabetes safely and sustainably, without the risks, costs, or side effects of medications or surgery. Created in 2014, Virta's innovations in nutritional biochemistry, data science, digital tools, and clinical expertise are shifting the diabetes treatment paradigm from management to reversal. Before Virta, Sami was a Co-Founder of the leading online real estate marketplace Trulia. He also previously worked for top companies including Microsoft, McKinsey, and Nokia. Sami is also an endurance athlete.  Sami and his wife rowed from California to Hawaii—2,750 miles, completely unsupported. He is also a triathlon age group world champion and 8 hour 24 minute Ironman with seven Hawaii Ironman finishes. I am your host RJ Lumba.  We hope you enjoy the show.  If you like the episode click to follow.

This week's engaging interview is with Stephen "Capz" Capezza, President of Side. Stephen shares his journey in real estate and provides a deep dive into Side's unique brokerage-as-a-service model. Side is a true pioneer in the real estate brokerage space as the only brokerage-as-a-service platform. The success of this platform can be seen based on the industry recognition many of their agents have achieved, including lists from Real Trends. Stephen shares his experience and what he's witnessed throughout his decade-plus tenure, leading real estate technology teams, the trends that have come and gone, and what's needed now for brokers to be successful. Tune in for an enlightening conversation about the future of real estate for agents and brokerages. More about Stephen and SideSide is the pioneer and the industry's only real estate brokerage-as-a-service platform that empowers the very best agents, teams and indie brokers to create and grow their own companies — without the time, cost or risk of operating a brokerage. Unlike consumer-facing brokerage brands, Side works behind the scenes to provide our partners with time-saving technology and premier support services. This way, they're free to focus on what matters most: serving their clients and communities.Agents partner with Side to help them create a company and act as that company's brokerage of record and back-office support. The companies that make up Side's network are locally owned and operated boutiques that are empowered with the full resources of a national brokerage.Stephen 'Capz' Capezza is President of Side. He has significant industry experience, and a deep understanding of the specific needs of the top-producing agents and teams Side partners with. Capz has decades of experience managing high-impact sales and customer success teams. Before Side, Capz was at Zillow Group, where he served as senior vice president of business operations. In this role, he oversaw Zillow Premier Agent, which connects consumers searching for homes on Zillow with real estate professionals. Zillow Premier Agent serves over 150,000 agents nationally and generates over $1.2B in revenue. Capezza joined Zillow in 2015 following the company's acquisition of Trulia, where he spent two years leading Trulia's San Francisco sales and operations teams.Connect with Stephen on LinkedInFollow Side on TwitterCheck out Side

We offer Flat Fee Services$495 and you get in to the MLS and all of the big portals: Zillow, Trulia, Realtor.comYou also get a Realtor to negotiate for you. Often, flat fee brokers won't negotiate for you. You have to negotiate.We offer a la carte because not all commissions are for everyone and we believe it puts people off thinking they are giving "away" alot of their profit on the sale and they don't understand where the money goes... We help you make more by keeping more! Get bonus content on Patreon Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/pattysplayhouse https://plus.acast.com/s/pattysplayhouse. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Forward Guidance is sponsored by VanEck. Learn more about the VanEck Morningstar Wide MOAT ETF (MOAT) at https://vaneck.com/MOATFG. Jack Ryan's book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bringing-Adam-Smith-into-the-American-Home/Jack-Ryan/9798888451946 Follow VanEck on Twitter https://twitter.com/vaneck_us Follow Jack Farley on Twitter https://twitter.com/JackFarley96 Follow Forward Guidance on Twitter https://twitter.com/ForwardGuidance Follow Blockworks on Twitter https://twitter.com/Blockworks_ __ Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (01:01) The Residential Agency Brokerage Business Is “The Largest Cartel In The U.S.” Argues Jack Ryan (17:31) Is This Legal? (22:54) Role of Multiple Listing Services (MLSs) (28:02) Zillow's Business Model (34:54) VanEck Ad (35:34) Rex's Plans To Go Public Disintegrated After Material Slowdown In Business Upon Zillow Change (39:09) Long And Short Ideas If Brokerage Fees Were To Go Down (43:56) If Brokerage Is Such A Good Business, Where Are All The Excess Profits? (48:10) How Zillow's Business Decision May Have Impacted Rex Homes (53:41) Rex's Lawsuit Against Zillow, NAR, and Trulia (01:05:25) National Association of Realtors (NAR) Has A Grip On Washington DC (01:11:29) Closing Thoughts On Strength Of U.S. Housing Market __ Disclaimer: Nothing discussed on Forward Guidance should be considered as investment advice. Please always do your own research & speak to a financial advisor before thinking about, thinking about putting your money into these crazy markets.

When it comes to building a billion-dollar company, doing it once might be considered luck, but doing it twice is a testament to skill and perseverance. Sami Inkinen, the entrepreneur behind two successful ventures, shares his journey from humble beginnings on a Finnish farm to founding companies like Trulia and Virta Health. Sami has raised funding for Virta Health from top-tier investors like Tiger Global, Sequoia Capital Global Equities, and Caffeinated Capital.

When it comes to building a billion-dollar company, doing it once might be considered luck, but doing it twice is a testament to skill and perseverance. Sami Inkinen, the entrepreneur behind two successful ventures, shares his journey from humble beginnings on a Finnish farm to founding companies like Trulia and Virta Health.

Welcome back to the Millionaire Real Estate Podcast! Today, we sat down with special guests Kyle Whissel to discuss How to run a 15 million dollar business   Kyle has been in the real estate industry in San Diego since 2002 when he purchased his first investment property. Since then, he's worked in all aspects of the industry including property management, commercial real estate (apartments and retail), investing, distressed sales (REO & short sale), flipping and residential real estate. He is the CEO and team leader of Whissel Realty Group brokered by eXp Realty. He has three locations throughout San Diego County including Santee, San Diego, and Carlsbad. They've been recognized as the #1 real estate team in the County by The Wall Street Journal and the #6 team in the state by Trulia and Zillow. Thier team approach has allowed them to help a large number of clients while still treating every client like they're our only client. - This episode is sponsored by CanZell Realty. CanZell is one of the fastest-growing virtual/hybrid companies with a focus on providing local leadership, revenue share opportunities, and top technology for agents. Learn how you can keep more of your commission and sell more real estate at joincanzell.com - Join CanZell HERE: https://joincanzell.com/

In this first episode of The Eric Ries Show, I sit down with serial entrepreneur and intrepid explorer, Sami Inkinen. Sami has co-founded two companies: Trulia and Virta Health. After Trulia was acquired by Zillow for $3.5 billion, he rowed from California to Hawaii with his wife, unassisted. What can't this guy do? Now, he's on a mission to reverse type 2 diabetes in 100 million people with his latest venture, Virta Health. In this episode, we discuss: In the interview, we cover: • How Sami got started as an entrepreneur coming over to America with no experience • What it was like to IPO during his time at Trulia  • What he's learned raising money after a market crash and a zero-interest environment • The best way he found to get great talent • Why Virta is a mission-based company disguised as a for-profit company • What he learned rowing unassisted to Hawaii from California • Why he says you should create a mission that is both simple and ambitious   • And so much more — Brought to you by: Mercury – The art of simplified finances https://mercury.com/ DigitalOcean – The cloud loved by developers and founders alike https://try.digitalocean.com/eric/ Neo4j – The graph database and analytics leader https://neo4j.com/eric/ — Where to find Sami Inkinen: • X: https://twitter.com/samiinkinen  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samiinkinen/  • Website: ​​https://www.samiinkinen.com/  — Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: https://ericries.carrd.co/  • Podcast: https://ericriesshow.com/  • X: https://twitter.com/ericries  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/  • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow  — In This Episode We Cover: (00:00) Welcome to the first episode of the Eric Ries Show (00:35) Meet our guest Sami Inkinen (05:20) Sami reflects on Trulia's IPO (08:20) How Sami started in entrepreneurship (11:10) Sami's founding story for Trulia (acquired by Zillow for $2.5 billion) (16:40) Why most people never end up starting a business (18:57) How to find better talent as a founder (23:15) Sami shares how much money he raised for Zillow and Virta (25:20) Sami's lessons on how to get momentum for your startup (30:30) What changed when Sami took his company public (38:00) Why Sami decided to start Virta and take on type 2 diabetes  (41:55) How type 2 diabetes can affect anyone, even a high-performing endurance athlete (47:36) Sami shares what he tells each founder when they ask for his investment  (53:20) The importance of defining your mission that is both simple and ambitious  (57:30) Trust leads to success  (1:03:07) A mission-based company disguised as a for-profit company   (1:08:10) How Sami built an economic model built on helping his customers (1:14:00) More details on how Sami set up Virta's company structure  (1:17:08) What is a GLP-1 drug and how Virta is a GLP-1 off-ramp  (1:24:32) Sami's approach to leadership  (1:26:02) Why Finland maximizes human capital better than most (1:28:00) What are Sami's thoughts on AI  (1:30:15) How to become one with your pain — Referenced:  • Virta Health: https://www.virtahealth.com/  • Virta Health YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/VirtaHealth  • Trulia Acquired By Zillow: https://zillow.mediaroom.com/2014-07-28-Zillow-Announces-Acquisition-of-Trulia-for-3-5-Billion-in-Stock  • Type 2 Diabetes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_diabetes  • GLP-1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLP-1_receptor_agonist  • Ozempic: https://www.ozempic.com/  • Buddhist Parables Of The Arrow: https://grandrapidstherapygroup.com/second-arrow-of-suffering/  — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email jordan@penname.co  Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of the Top of Mind podcast, recorded live at HousingWire's The Gathering conference, Mike Simonsen sits down with Ginger Wilcox, President of Better Homes & Gardens Real Estate, to talk about her plans to grow the iconic international brokerage in a challenging market. Ginger shares insights into how they're preparing their agents for what the future holds, why their size and scale helps them weather storms in the market, and the recommendations they're giving home buyers to help them navigate and succeed. She also weighs in on AI and how technology is changing the consumer experience in real estate. About Ginger Wilcox Ginger Wilcox is the President of Better Homes and Gardens® Real Estate and is responsible for the strategic growth and operations for the BHGRE global network of more than 12,000 affiliated brokers and independent sales associates and approximately 420 offices across the United States, Canada, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Australia, and Turkey.  Ginger has held prominent leadership roles spanning real estate technology, brokerage, and transaction services. She has a proven track record of developing and growing unique brands in the industry, having served as Head of Industry Marketing and Relations for Trulia, an online real estate marketplace, where she focused on go-to-market strategies, marketing innovation and digital engagement.  Before stepping into her current role, Ginger served as CEO of RealSure, the joint venture between Anywhere and Home Partners of America that developed innovative solutions to reduce friction in residential real estate transactions. Before RealSure, Ginger was Chief Experience Officer at Homepoint, a leading mortgage lender that, under Ginger's strategic direction and brand building efforts, grew into the third largest wholesale mortgage lender and the tenth largest non-bank mortgage lender in the United States with over 400,000 customers. Resources mentioned in this episode: Ginger Wilcox on LinkedIn Better Homes & Gardens Real Estate Mike Simonsen on LinkedIn Altos Research Featuring Mike Simonsen, President of Altos Research A true data geek, Mike founded Altos Research in 2006 to bring data and insight on the U.S. housing market to those who need it most. The company now serves the largest Wall Street investment firms, banks, and tens of thousands of real estate professionals around the country. Mike's insights on the market have been featured in Forbes, New York Times, Bloomberg, Dallas Morning News, Seattle PI, and many other national media outlets. Follow us on Twitter for more data analysis and insights: Altos on Twitter Mike on Twitter About Altos Research The Top of Mind Podcast is produced by Altos Research. Each week, Altos tracks every home for sale in the country - all the pricing, and all the changes in pricing - and synthesizes those analytics to make them available before becoming visible through traditional channels. Schedule a demo to see Altos in action. You can also get a copy of our free eBook: How To Use Market Data to Build Your Real Estate Business.

Sami Inkinen is the Co-Founder and CEO of Virta Health, which is reversing type two diabetes through nutrition, lifestyle change, and a new standard of medical care. Prior to Virta, Sami was the Co-Founder and COO of Trulia, which many of you probably used to find a house or apartment. Sami took Trulia public and then sold it to Zillow. Sami is also an Ironman Age Group Champion and all-around world-class endurance athlete. To raise awareness about the dangers of sugar and its connection to diabetes, Sami and his wife rowed from California to Hawaii—2,750 miles, completely unsupported.  I've been personally lucky to know Sami for over ten years now.  I was introduced to Sami through the Global Good Fund, a fellowship program for social entrepreneurs.  Sami became my mentor through GGF, and has always been generous with his time and insight whenever I need it through the years. I've wanted to record this interview for a long time. Big thanks to Sami for sharing so much with us. #EveryMileMatters!

This Flashback Friday is from episode 842 published last Jun 12, 2017. Client and fellow podcaster, Elisabeth Embry joins Jason to discuss the importance of coming to the live events, finding the true value of your properties and what happens when interest rates rise and inventories are low. The upcoming Venture Alliance and Oklahoma City Property Tour and Jason Hartman University Live events are a great way to meet like-minded people who are income property investors. You can share your creative ideas with Jason or any of the investment counselors at these events and there are tried and true professionals who share their real life experience on the panels. Go to JasonHartman.com/Events and sign up today. Key Takeaways: 3:26 In a booming real estate market nobody is making money if they don't have any inventory to sell. 7:01 The quality of properties lowers when property inventories are limited. 9:57 Puerto Rico, are the tax breaks worth the risk? 16:30 Zillow could be getting sued for their Zestimates. 23:40 A Trulia article states houses haven't reached the pre-recession peak. 27:40 To see properties that make sense come to the Oklahoma Property Tour and Jason Hartman University Live Event. 30:45 Will there be three rate hikes by the Federal Reserve in 2017? 35:48 Sarbanes-Oxley had very little effect on Wells Fargo thievery. 40:49 If you are a Jason Hartman client and want to contribute to a mutual project or goal contact your investment counselor. Mentioned in this episode: Renter's Warehouse - Get 3 free months of property management with this link. Jason Hartman Venture Alliance Mastermind Hartman Education The Jetsetter Show Women Investing Network   Follow Jason on TWITTER, INSTAGRAM & LINKEDIN Twitter.com/JasonHartmanROI Instagram.com/jasonhartman1/ Linkedin.com/in/jasonhartmaninvestor/ Call our Investment Counselors at: 1-800-HARTMAN (US) or visit: https://www.jasonhartman.com/ Free Class:  Easily get up to $250,000 in funding for real estate, business or anything else: http://JasonHartman.com/Fund CYA Protect Your Assets, Save Taxes & Estate Planning: http://JasonHartman.com/Protect Get wholesale real estate deals for investment or build a great business – Free Course: https://www.jasonhartman.com/deals Special Offer from Ron LeGrand: https://JasonHartman.com/Ron Free Mini-Book on Pandemic Investing: https://www.PandemicInvesting.com

Sami Inkinen is the Co-Founder and CEO of Virta Health, the company reversing type 2 diabetes. Before Virta, Sami was the Co-Founder of Trulia, steering the company to a successful IPO and its eventual sale to Zillow Group. Outside of the boardroom, he launched Fat Chance Row, a daring venture to row 2,750 miles across the Pacific, unsupported with his wife, rowing 18 hours straight per day. In Today's Episode with Sami Inkinen: 1. From Farm in Finland to IPO Founder: Relationship to Money How did Sami's humble upbringing on a farm in Finland impact his early mindset and ambition? How does Sami analyze his relationship to money today? How has it changed over time? Why was the two weeks following Trulia's IPO the worst two weeks of his life? 2. The Secret to Marriage: Rowing 2,750 Miles Together: What are some of the biggest lessons on marriage Sami has from spending 45 days rowing the Pacific with only his wife for company? What was their single biggest argument over the 45 days? What did Sami learn from it? Sami worked with his wife, what are the biggest pros and cons of working with your spouse? Would Sami recommend it? What does Sami believe are the core fundamentals that underpin the best marriages? 3. The Secret to Parenting: The Regret of Delegation: What is Sami's biggest regret when it comes to parenting? How does Sami think about what it means to be a great father today? How has that changed? How did Sami's relationship with his wife change when they had kids? 4. Relationship to Identity: Why does Sami believe tieing your identity to the company, as a founder, is so dangerous? How does Sami advise on creating multiple personas to prevent this? Why does Sami believe that all the best founders are addicts to some extent?

In the latest episode of Sit Down Startup, uncover Sami Inkinen's entrepreneurial journey, [00:11:28] beginning with how seizing the opportunity in his 20s set the stage for a phenomenal career. Sami shares his groundbreaking strides in [00:19:51] revolutionizing residential real estate with interactive maps, helping Trulia achieve an unparalleled product-market fit. Venturing into health tech, [00:36:53] Sami discusses Virta Health's mission to reverse diabetes through nutrition, not pharmaceuticals. This episode is nothing short of a masterclass in unwavering commitment, diving headfirst into entrepreneurship, and fostering a genuine passion for success in work. Host Adam O'Donnell steers this insightful conversation to inspire and equip startup founders on their journey to market fit.Apply to join the Zendesk for Startups program and use Zendesk free for six months. Provide your customers with exceptional customer experiences from day one: https://www.zendesk.com/lp/startup-partner/?ref=gen&partner_account=0016R00003GUn7OQAT

Pete Flint is a prominent figure in the technology and real estate industries, best known for his co-founding role at Trulia and his involvement with NFX, a venture capital firm. As one of the co-founders of Trulia, a real estate platform that gained widespread popularity, Flint played a pivotal role in revolutionizing the way people search for homes online. His entrepreneurial spirit and innovative approach have made him a respected leader in the prop-tech space. Beyond Trulia, Flint has continued to contribute to the startup ecosystem through his association with NFX, a venture capital firm that focuses on investing in seed-stage companies.

On this week's episode, I have TikTok Star Mackenzie Barmen. We talk about what she has already accomplished in her very short time in LA, as well as some of the projects she has planned for the future. There is so much more so make sure you tune in.Show NotesMackenzie Barmen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mackenziebarmen/Mackenzie Barmen on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mackenziebarmen?lang=enMackenzie Barmen on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAP_cFPc2fqGTe50YhOlkDg/videosMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletterAutogenerated TranscriptMackenzie Barman:There's a part of me that worries on some level all the time, but then there's a stronger part of me. I think that's pretty delusional in a good way, that I'm like, no, I am certain that I'm supposed to do this, and I just can't falter. I just, I'm doing,Michael Jamin:You're listening to, what the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? I'll tell you what I'm talking about. I'm talking about creativity. I'm talking about writing, and I'm talking about reinventing yourself through the arts.Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of, what the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? Well, I'll tell you what I've been talking about. If you've been listening to any number of my podcasts or by social media, I've been saying the same thing a lot. I've been saying, if you are an aspiring whatever, if you're an actor or a writer or performer, put your work out there. Just start doing it, and the more you do it, the better you get. And then my next guest is someone who did just that and is doing that, and I discovered her maybe a year or two ago, and we're going to talk, and she's big. We're going to talk to her about her journey here. Mackenzie Barman, thank you so much for coming here. Lemme tell you when I first found you, and then you'll Yes, please. Then we'll tell you were doing a bit, it was a piece on you were reciting nursery rhymes, and you playing two characters.You generally will talk about this, but you generally do two characters have, and you're both, and usually it's kind of a sweet and naive version of you. And then there's kind of a meaner more, not sinister, but cynical. And I guess she puts you in your place. She's a little, and she wants up making you cry a lot. And so the sweet one was talking about nursery rhyme, and the other one was telling you, you're so naive, you have no idea what these nursery rhymes are about. And so that blew up and that's how I found you, and it was really funny. I loveMackenzie Barman:It. Thank you.Michael Jamin:Well, tell me, what is this? So you're huge on TikTok, you have almost 3 million followers, which isMackenzie Barman:AlmostMichael Jamin:Huge. I've written for shows that haven't been seen by anywhere near 3 million people. So you have a giant following, but tell me, so why did you start doing this?Mackenzie Barman:Well, I was an actor in the pandemic, and I didn't really know what to do with myself. And so everyone was on TikTok for fun. That was when TikTok was really blowing up, and I kind of just decided to start making videos and then not taking it seriously at all. But then I was like, well, it gives me a kind of a platform. And no one was really using it like that yet. But I started to see some sketches pop up and I was like, huh, or viral videos, whatever. And then I ended up just at random seeing somebody write about a nursery rhyme in a Facebook status. And I was still using Facebook, which I don't, and I was like, oh. And I learned in that moment what that nursery rhyme meant. So I just on a whim made that firstMichael Jamin:Video. So that was one of your first videos?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, it was one. I did a whole series of those ones. So I did it and I just kind of improvised it. And the next morning I woke up and it had gone kind of viral, and so I made another one, and then I made another one and they kind of just blew up. And so, yeah, it was kind of random.Michael Jamin:But your intention, it was boredom or was it, you said you wanted to have a platform. What was your goal?Mackenzie Barman:Well, it was a little bit out of boredom, but it was more so like, well, let me put myself out there. And I used to go to a lot of casting director workshops and when I lived in New York City, and they would always say the same thing when YouTube was really big, make your own web series, put yourself out there, all that stuff. And so that's always been in the back of my mind, and I've always kind of considered myself a multihyphenate. I also shoot and direct and all that stuff, so I was like, I need to do that. So that's why I've always kind of focused on acting, being the primary thing in my videos. Let's get to that.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I was going to say, it's really smart. You show a range. I mean, you have, like I said, the sweet side, and then the other side is, and sometimes you play well, you're always playing characters, but to me it's smart. You're showing your range as an actor.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah.Michael Jamin:What do your reps have to say about all this?Mackenzie Barman:They love it. I actually got my managers through TikTok, they found me and oh myMichael Jamin:God, really?Mackenzie Barman:I had already had voiceover representation through my agency, but I didn't have a manager or anything. And I met my manager, Rachel. I loved her right away. And they love it, and they love the content and that it's acting first and the series and all that.Michael Jamin:So they give you any feedback or No, they just like, we love it.Mackenzie Barman:No, not really. They just let me roll with it. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Interesting. And then what other opportunities have come from all this?Mackenzie Barman:Gosh, well, one of the coolest things is the relationships that I've built with other creators, especially actor creators. And you just kind of know when you vibe with some people or when I watch certain people, I'm like, I know our brains work the same way. So I seek those people out to become, I love getting to know the people that I admire. It's cool to meet people talent first, and then it's doing a play with somebody. IMichael Jamin:Know you collaborate with people sometimes. I've seen some of those videos you've done.Mackenzie Barman:I've done a couple. I'm going to be doing more now that I'm in LA and with a lot more people. But that's been a really cool thing that's come from this. DidMichael Jamin:You start this in New York your first three years? Yeah. Oh, really?Mackenzie Barman:Okay. Yeah, I just moved to LA a few weeks ago. I was in New YorkMichael Jamin:City. Oh, when you said you changed your apartments, I assumed you were moved, okay. From in la, but you're Oh, you're, well, welcome to la. Okay. Thank you. Wow, this is a big adjustment for you. So what prompted you to move to LA then?Mackenzie Barman:Well, my managers are out here, and since TikTok, I've really, it's funny. I was always kind of like, I wanted to really be such a chameleon and not hone in on any one thing. I didn't want to just do comedy. I didn't want to just do drama. But now with TikTok, it's really pushed me more into comedy, and I've found that I really do love it. So out here, there's so many comedy opportunities, and I'm going to be doing part of a live show on December 10th, and just being, I just needed to be out here.Michael Jamin:Okay. So how did you get, you've only been here for three minutes, so how did you get this live show already?Mackenzie Barman:Through a friend of mine, actually, through social media. Someone you, ohMichael Jamin:My God, so smart. I'm always yelling at people. They're like, do I have to be in la? I'm like, well, this is where everyone is. I mean, why would you know? What were you doing? Were you doing a lot of theater in New York?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, so I did a lot of regional theater. I did an off-Broadway musical, and then when the pandemic happened, I was really trying to shift into more TV and film work. I really wanted to be on tv. I still do. That's really my big focus is to be on tv, be in movies. But I was kind of transitioning and doing the casting director workshops and doing all those things, and then the pandemic hit. But yeah, mostly theater. I'm a theater girlMichael Jamin:Now. Did you study, where have you studied? Did you study in college? Where did, yeah,Mackenzie Barman:I went to a SUNY school and I loved it. I went to SUNY Potsdam in upstate New York, and I studied theater and theater education. I didn't really start doing plays until high school and in high school. SoMichael Jamin:You're from New York?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I'm from New York. FromMichael Jamin:New York, okay.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, born and raised, upstate New York, near Albany. And then, yeah, I moved down to the city to be an actor and do all that. Right.Michael Jamin:Wow. You've only been here three weeks and so much has already happened for you already.Mackenzie Barman:What do you think? Yeah, I'm trying.Michael Jamin:What do you think It's a culture shock. What do you think?Mackenzie Barman:Right now, I'm in my lust for life extrovert phase where I'm like, because a homebody pretty much, I'm an extroverted homebody, so I like to be home a lot. But right now I'm just trying to be out a lot, meet people that I've, and just kind of be really social,Michael Jamin:Been amazing. How did you get into play? Okay, you moved here. Did you stay with a friend when you found your, how did, because I'm telling people come out. How did you do it? How didMackenzie Barman:It was a pain? So I visited last August, and I stayed with one of my managers. Actually, I crashed at her place. I went a couple different places, but she's the best. I love her. And they're in the West Hollywood area, so it's really the only place I know. So that's where I am now. I'm in West Hollywood. And then I looked at a couple apartments when I was here, but I really didn't know where I was. I kind of did, but I don't really know. And then, so I just, Zillow and Trulia, and I ended up finding this apartment on Trulia, and I had a couple of friends come look at it and FaceTime me,Michael Jamin:And it was good enough.Mackenzie Barman:I was like,Michael Jamin:And then Did you drive here? YouMackenzie Barman:Flew here? I drove,Michael Jamin:Yeah. That's how you do it. Did your car. Wow. Now tell me, when you start posting, these are thought out, these videos you make, how much time do you spend a day making, and how many times do you post a day?Mackenzie Barman:It's really funny. I usually post once a day at most. I really should try to post once a day at least. It's usually every two or three days. Oh, really? Yeah. But I've been kind of busy, but it was once a day when I was doing the nursery rhymes, but I kind of got a little burned out, I think.Michael Jamin:Yeah, you do get burned out. It'sMackenzie Barman:A lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. But I don't write anything beforehand. I improvise everything, but I kind of write it in my head as I go, and I have a loose idea going into it of if it was a nursery rhyme or something, I would have to research and have the facts ready. I would do that research beforehand and then kind of reference it as I improvised it. But for the character stuff, it's all kind of, they kind of just take over. I take a backseat,Michael Jamin:But you must edit some stuff out, or no, is everything what you say goes in?Mackenzie Barman:Sometimes if I say something and then I'm like, even if it's improvised, I'm like, huh, you know what? I think I want to tweak that and put the intonation somewhere else, or put a micro look or an eyebrow raise kind of somewhere else. I'll redo it. But most of the time it's my first take, honestly.Michael Jamin:So, okay. I was going to ask you where you're editing it because you're like this, you're holding it, and you do your one line, and then you turn around and do the other line, and thenMackenzie Barman:I swap. Yeah.Michael Jamin:So you're not even editing it?Mackenzie Barman:No, because I shoot in the app, unless it's Snapchat filters, which a couple of my characters are Snapchat filters, in which case I'll film them. It used to be that if I was doing the Snapchat filters, I would just shoot one character as a monologue and then post that. But then with my Danny and Bab series, this new, these characters, I haveMichael Jamin:The ugly babies that you post.Mackenzie Barman:They're adults. Okay. I just, I'll pull up his filter, shoot his line, save the video, switch the filter, do her response.Michael Jamin:I'm surprised you can't even remember what you just said. You know what I'm saying? With the last character just said,Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I don't know. It's just kind of alive in that moment. ButMichael Jamin:Are you thinking in advance, okay, this is going to do well, or this is just what I want to do today? Do you care?Mackenzie Barman:I do care only because I kind of have to care. I feel like it influences so much. Now your numbers and all that stuff, but I also care because I want people to like it. I want people to genuinely have a response to it that's a little deeper maybe than normal. On TikTok scrolling, which I do get a lot. I'll get people being like, wait, this is actually, so peopleMichael Jamin:Are, well, your fans really loved you. I've read some of these comments, and what surprises me is that you interact with pretty much everyone.Mackenzie Barman:I try. I try and they're smart. Okay.Michael Jamin:Why do you try?Mackenzie Barman:Because it, it's weird. It's like this weird, I don't really ever go to anyone's profile or whatever, but I can almost hear the comment in my head, and it almost in that brief moment feels like a conversation's actively happening. So I'm bantering with this person, or I don't know. It's just, it's fun to be engaging. And I've had people respond when I do engage and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe you applied. And that to me is just so lovely.Michael Jamin:It is lovely, but it's so much work on your part.Mackenzie Barman:I know, but I sit and scroll a lot. So it's like part of the package. It's like part of producing the video almost is then the engagement after. And I don't do it as much as I used to, but I do. It depends on what mood I'm in.Michael Jamin:I wonder though. I wonder what you're supposed to do when I started, are you supposed to, I'm not even sure when I get, my page is very different from yours. They have questions for me. They want, as opposed to you. I think they're like your fans, they just want to, and so they'reMackenzie Barman:Just making a commentary on itMichael Jamin:Or something. Well, they really like your show. They like what? You're the fans. And so I just don't know what the rules are. I don't know if you're supposed toMackenzie Barman:Interact yourself. I dunno. And it depends. If somebody does leave a nasty comment or say something mean, which is oddly really rare, don't come from me guys. Don't start. But it's rare. They're pretty good, my, because some people get it bad for some reason, and I don't really get that.Michael Jamin:Yeah, go on. What do you do?Mackenzie Barman:Wait, I've lost my train of thought. WhatMichael Jamin:Was it? You said? Some people come after you and they're mean,Mackenzie Barman:And either I'll completely ignore them or I'll delete it. If it's a needle in a haystack and it's just something mean, I'll delete it. But sometimes I'll respond with sarcasm or I'll make a sarcastic response video, and then it makes it funny. So then it's like, oh, this is actually a joyful experience. But most of the time I'll just ignore them if I do get them.Michael Jamin:And you don't block 'em, you just ignore them?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. I don't really block anybody unless they're trying to impersonate me, butMichael Jamin:Even, yeah. Wow. You don't even block the haters.Mackenzie Barman:Not usually. There's been maybe two or three.Michael Jamin:Oh, wow. I get more than you do I get more than haters than you?Mackenzie Barman:They don't really come for me. It's weird. I don't know.Michael Jamin:Wow. But now you're putting yourself out there. It's pretty vulnerable. I mean, it may hit, it may not. It may be funny. It may not be. I mean, was that hard at the beginning for you to do that?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I think the nursery rhyme videos did so well. Those were just one of those weird viral things where every video was getting a million plus and it was every day. It was just crazy. And now it ebbs and flows so much with TikTok. And now I have more normal numbers, I think. But I definitely do get a little anxious about that. Sometimes I'm like, oh gosh, I thought this video would do better. Or I'll post something out of my norm and then I wake up and it's done really well, and I'm like, oh, and then I'll try to do that again, and then it doesn't do as well. So it's like a flash in the pan thing.Michael Jamin:Do you share it as well on Instagram? I mean, what do youMackenzie Barman:I do, yeah. Yeah,Michael Jamin:Immediately. Same content. You just put it up there.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Do you put it anywhere else?Mackenzie Barman:Not really. I've put a couple on YouTube. I really need to start utilizing the YouTube shorts because I think where it's at and Snapchat, I need to start utilizing more. I think they're up and coming. They're coming back. You thinkMichael Jamin:So?Mackenzie Barman:They're coming back? I think so.Michael Jamin:How many hours a day or minutes a day do you spend on this?Mackenzie Barman:I would say on average, I probably spend an hour on a video.Michael Jamin:Really? Okay. It's not nothing. It's not nothing.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. It's not nothing. But it's not like I know some people put in and you can tell some of these videos are gorgeous and the editing is, but since it's just me, it's also a lot harder for me to film outside of my hand, setting up the tripod moving and just a lot more to do. So it's just easier for me toMichael Jamin:Do. Do you have a list of ideas that you keep? And are you running out of ideas?Mackenzie Barman:I always feel like I'm running out of ideas. I always think if a video, especially if a video does really well, I'm like, I'm never going to do this well ever again. But I don't usually keep a list of ideas. Sometimes I'll jot down, I have a bunch of notes, like separate note app ideas. But a lot of the times it's just, if I have the thought, I'll just record it. That's why a lot of the times I look kind of like shit in my videos a little bit, because I film them. Usually my ideas come right in the morning, and so I'll just wake up and film an idea, and then it's, before I've even brushed my teeth or anything, I'm just gross. But it's when, and I just do it.Michael Jamin:And you put it up. It's so interesting. I don't know. Is there a fear? Is there any fear associated? It seems like you don't have any fear at all about this.Mackenzie Barman:I feel like I do. I feel there's a constant anxiety of one. I have imposter syndrome pretty intensely.Michael Jamin:Okay. And who do you think you are? Do you, you're not, is thatMackenzie Barman:I don't come from an industry family or any kind of connections like that. So I'm always like, who am I?Michael Jamin:But they have imposter syndrome too, because their mother and father was, they're famous. So I think they have bigger imposter syndrome than you do. You'reMackenzie Barman:Self made. I'm learning that. I'm learning everyone deals. There was a great Viola Davis interview where she talked about imposter syndrome, and it was great to hear that.Michael Jamin:What did she say?Mackenzie Barman:Just that it never goes away and that she was doing, oh gosh, what was the movie she did with Denzel Washington?Michael Jamin:Oh, was it Fences?Mackenzie Barman:Fences? Yeah. I think it was about fences. And she was talking about she was playing that part and was like, who am I to do this? It may have been that, but she was just talking about that, and I was like, that's really refreshing, because I think I look through rose colored glasses at these celebs sometimes, and I'm like, oh my God. They're so confident. But we're always seeing the best take, and we're always getting, especially as you get more involved in the industry, you start to see that it's all kind of smoke and mirrors. You just have to fake it.Michael Jamin:I read an article yesterday about Brian May from Queen. He said he still has some imposter syndrome, and he's Sir Brian May, and he's like, why isn't they call me, sir?Mackenzie Barman:It's wild. Yeah, it's wild. But that there is fear there. There is that fear of the imposter syndrome of like, oh my gosh, who am I? And it's silly. It's silly. And I know that, butMichael Jamin:Are you monetizing TikTok or no? Yeah. You are? Yeah. In the creator fund?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. So they have the creator beta program or program beta, whatever it's called. Great. IsMichael Jamin:That effective use?Mackenzie Barman:I dunno, maybe, but I don't dunno. Interesting. It's nice because you can only monetize on content over a minute, and most of my content is over a minute, so it really was a good thing for me. Yeah,Michael Jamin:You'd have to change anything.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah.Michael Jamin:But you have to have a personal account, not a business account. Right? Isn'tMackenzie Barman:That what you maybe? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.Michael Jamin:Now, in your reps, as I was checking out some of your videos, you are, it's funny that they said this, but they like that you're in character. They like that you're acting. And I was curious, why don't you, or have you thought of, this is me today. I'm not going to act today. This is me. This is, I'm want to table my life. You're not doing that though.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, no. I've done a couple of videos like that. I've probably done 10 or 12, maybe 20. I don't even know how many I have on my page, but where it's me doing something. But I feel like sometimes it feels like I'm always in a bit, and I don't know if that's being an actor or if it's my own neuroses, but if I am in front of a camera, it's kind of hard for me to be just me, unless I'm doing a podcast and talking to somebody. But if it's me looking at myself on video, I'm always going to be like, ha.Michael Jamin:It'sMackenzie Barman:Difficult for me sometimes. But I do think about that because there is a part of me that really wants to be more like, wait, okay, so here I am as a person. Get ready with me. As I tell you this story, I thought about doing more of those just because it is fun to do that.Michael Jamin:Right? But theMackenzie Barman:Math is always on. I don't know.Michael Jamin:That's more of a you thing. It's so interesting. I wonder, I was going to ask if you feel almost trapped in this persona that you are now?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. Yes and no. No, probably not. I don't think so. I think I play such a variety of characters on my TikTok.Michael Jamin:Except for yourself. You play characters exceptMackenzie Barman:For you. It's never really me. Definitely the closest one to me. And I think I'm pretty split right down the middle between the dark me and the innocent me in the nursery rhyme videos. And that dynamic is, in a lot of the videos, there's always me and me and whoever else, Chelsea or whoever. But I'm definitely split right in the middle. But if I had to lean, I would definitely lean toward the happy, bubbly me. That's probably the closest to me in any of my videos.Michael Jamin:But not that you should, I'm just pointing out you're not sharing anything really personal or intimate about yourself orMackenzie Barman:No, no. In a weird way, I think that it's like, I don't know. There's a part of me that likes, there admires those celebs that you really don't know too much about Florence Pugh or Jennifer Lawrence. They give you glimpses into their life, their personal life. But there always is this level of mystique to them. And not that I'm trying to be mysterious, but I do think that it in the long run might serve me better as an actor to be more private than to be so human. I don't know. Well,Michael Jamin:It's interesting because it's also like you must know Elise Meyers, because I mean, she's big, but you're up there. I mean, you're not far behind her, and she's more, and it seems like she's doing what she wants to do, but she's more actor and she's more, I guess, personality.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. Yeah. I love Elise, and I don't know her, but I love her because she's so just herself. She might have self-doubt, whatever. I have no idea. Imposter syndrome and stuff, but she appears and she does speak on things, her iss, and she's just so honest about it. And I do love that. I don't know. I just can't do it.Michael Jamin:Right. Well, you're being authentic or IMackenzie Barman:Can, but yeah, I don't know. It's just tricky. There is that kind of want to keep this, but who is Mackenzie thingMichael Jamin:And what surprising opportunities have come from this or partnerships or relationships or whatever.Mackenzie Barman:I'm trying to think. Besides auditions and stuff.Michael Jamin:So you've gotten direct auditions from this? IMackenzie Barman:Have.Michael Jamin:How did that work?Mackenzie Barman:Well, a lot of the times I'll go through my reps and then my reps will reach out to me, say, oh, you've been actually personally requested for this.Michael Jamin:That's a big deal.Mackenzie Barman:It really is. And I've gotten some callback. I've gotten, most of the time, if I audition for projects like that, I'll get a call back and then go whatever, and then it doesn't happen or whatever for whatever reason. But it's happened, yeah, a few times. But a lot of the time too, I don't know. I really don't know how much, because I get auditions through my agents, a normal actor would. So I don't really know on the back end of it how much they're like, oh, here's her video. I don't really know.Michael Jamin:But do your reps try to sell you like, Hey, she's got 3 million followers on, because that would be good to help sell the show when you book it or whatever.Mackenzie Barman:Oh, I think so. Yeah. I think that's definitely a leverage point. Working on treatments and stuff. There is work that I want to put out and produce and whatever, and I do think that helps and is a big aspect ofMichael Jamin:It. So is that on your resume, like your follower account on your acting resume or no?Mackenzie Barman:I don't dunno. Actually. It mightMichael Jamin:Be it. Should it be right? Shouldn't it be?Mackenzie Barman:I think in today's world, yeah, I think it probably should. It probably is. And it probably needs to be updated, actually, now that I'm thinking about it. But yeah, I think it is on there.Michael Jamin:One thing you don't do, I don't think you do, is sell merch.Mackenzie Barman:No, I did one drop and I had a bad experience.Michael Jamin:What happenedMackenzie Barman:With doing it? I think my problem is I am not a salesy person. And when I was trying to sell or advertise my merch, those videos did not do well and not a of lot of eyes saw them because the people who would typically see my content, it was so out of the realm of what their algorithm would be that it didn't pop up for 'em and it just didn't do well. And I was like, you know what? And I didn't like working with, so if I think if I did, I would just do it myself.Michael Jamin:Wait, weren't you doing print on demand? How is it?Mackenzie Barman:I had worked with a merch company. I don't even remember the name of the company actually, but I had worked with a merch company and it was just a quick drop. I think typically if it's a first time, they'll do a limited drop to see how it does and then moveMichael Jamin:On. You work with the merch company. Why don't you just go to some place that print on demand? I have five T-shirts if you want to make 'em one at a time.Mackenzie Barman:Well, it was kind of near when I was kind first starting out, and it's one of those things where you kind learn as you go approached. They had reached out and they said, Hey, we think McKenzie would be great. And they'd worked with other people. I think that's how it went down, or no, no, that's not true. I think it was my idea to make merch. And then I had, they were recommended because they had worked with some other great people and were really successful. So I think it was just my particular launch didn't do.Michael Jamin:Didn't do well.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael. If you like my content and I know you do listening to me, I will email it to you for free. Just join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos of the week. These are for writers, actors, creative types, people. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not going to spam you, and the price is free. You got no excuse to join. Go to michae jamin.com. And now back to what the hell is Michael Jamin talking about.What about brand deals? Are you working with people with companies? Yeah.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. I've done some brand deals, which are so fun. I want to do more of them because they're just fun. It kind of gives me a, because a lot of the times there's no guiding light in my videos. It's just what's ever in my head. So when I have a brand to work with, it's fun. I can work around that.Michael Jamin:Did you hook up onto the backend of TikTok, or, I don't even know they hook you up, or no.Mackenzie Barman:Well, I think a little bit. I'm so bad. I don't really know all the business backend things of TikTok. I've seen some ads and stuff you can apply to be a part of this ad or something, but the pay is really low sometimes, or it's like a share a revenue share system, and I just don't want to be bothered with that. So these ones, they'll come through my management or my agents and be like, really? Hey, they want to work with me. Yeah,Michael Jamin:But do you have special agents, social media agents, or No, just your acting agents?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. At my agency, they have a department for everything. So I'm working with an agent there. Yeah. Oh,Michael Jamin:Wow. So interesting.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I'm still learning too. It really is a business. And you'd kind of go to theater school and you're like, okay, yeah, sure, it's a business, but then you're in the world and you're like, oh, this is a business.Michael Jamin:Alright, so is this your primary income or no?Mackenzie Barman:No, kind of. So I do a lot of things. So I also run a video production company. You do? It's very small, but it's called Real You, and it's a demo reel production company for actors. So basically, yes, I work with actors. I was an actor who had a MISHMOSHED demo reel of all these different student films, or you just wouldn't get the footage. So it was always a hassle if you didn't have stuff to put a reel together. And so I basically sit with actors, figure out their branding, their type, whatever, and then write them scenes and then film them. But professionally, I have a real camera and all that good stuff.Michael Jamin:And how do they find you? These peopleMackenzie Barman:Through my website or there's a business website and stuff. And it's funny because all of the SEO is for New York, and so I need to figure out a way to make everyone know that we're in LA now. So I do that and I do voiceover, so I do commercial and animation. Well, nothing animation yet. I audition a lot, but I'm hoping to book something soon. But a lot of commercial work and radio stuff, so I just have a lot of,Michael Jamin:But it seems very smart what you're doing. You're also working with, you're meeting actors, you're working with actors, you're making contacts, and you're getting paid for it out here. It'sMackenzie Barman:Making me a better writer, a better director, a better actor, because I also edit the scenes. Each scene is about a couple minutes long, and so I know when I'm directing them and shooting it, oh, this was helpful in the editing process, or, oh, this was actually difficult.Michael Jamin:So it's interesting though that you write stuff for them, but you don't write for yourself. You just impro yourself.Mackenzie Barman:I do write some stuff. My tiktoks, I don't write for some reason. I really should maybe try to sit and write something. I think I just write backwards when I'm doing that. But when I'm writing treatments, we're working on TV stuff, then I'll sit and write if it's because a lot of the stuff that I write is for me, but it's also for other people.Michael Jamin:Right. Yeah. It's so interesting. Like I said, I thought what you're doing was so smart because you're really showcasing your writing, you're showcasing your acting, and you're, your range, your acting range by playing all these different characters. It just seems like that's exactly what you should be doing. Yeah.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. I'm really trying to build a brand there. And it's nice because it kind of acts like a resume or a reel. I'm like, just go watch my tiktoks and you can see, you can see what I'm all about.Michael Jamin:Wow. And what about the partnerships, the other actors that you're working with? Tell me a little bit about what that had led toMackenzie Barman:The actors that I shoot forMichael Jamin:Or that you shoot with or that you collaborate with.Mackenzie Barman:Oh, man. Well, I've only collaborated with a couple people. My friend's Taylor and James, who are content creators, and they're both actors. They're amazing. They live in la. I did a video with them, and I actually shot this morning with Laura Clary. Do you know Laura Clary? She's great. She's so funny. She's like an internet queen. And so when I'm shooting with them, I love working with other people, a theater person. So it's in my soul to have tangible people with me. But most of the time I'm alone. So when I'm working with another actor, it's just the best, especially when I'm just bantering freely with them or, because Laura, for instance, she wrote a script for us, and when I clagged with Taylor and James, we kind of improvised it, had an idea of what it was going to be. It was like a curb situation. We had the bones, but Laura wrote it, and then we kind of improvised on the fly. It was great. I loved it.Michael Jamin:And they're pretty much want what you want. They want to get more traditional acting on TV and film.Mackenzie Barman:I think so, yeah. Well, I know that some of them do. Laura's already established and stuff, but my client actors, they're all either working actors who want to update their reel or want to add a very specific, they need a detective scene, or they need this specific type of scene. They'll come to me. Some of them I've become really good friends with just because I'm like, oh, I love you.Michael Jamin:I mean, you've only been in LA three weeks. Are you going to get involved in the theater scene or the improv scene, or what are you going to do?Mackenzie Barman:So I really want to get into the comedy scene of the character shows and a little bit of standup. I'm going to kind of play on the 10th. I'm going to have a five minute set and this show. So I think I'm just going to totally improvise it and just see what happens. This is my first show. So who caressMichael Jamin:And where is that going to be?Mackenzie Barman:That is going to be, oh, I don't know where it's going to be. Actually, I don't,Michael Jamin:By the time this airs, it'll be too late. But I'm just curious as to,Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I don't know. It's called One Star Review. It's like a comedy showcase.Michael Jamin:It's amazing how quickly you jumped into it, honestly, you jumped into it. I don't,Mackenzie Barman:I always feel like I'm not doing enough. I always feel like I need to be doing, but I probably am fine.Michael Jamin:It's only been three weeks. Yeah, I, but it seems like, I don't know. I admire you because you're not worried about figuring out. You're just doing it. It'll fall into place. And I think a lot of people are afraid to try and to, yeah,Mackenzie Barman:I think that I'm definitely always a little bit afraid. There's always a part of me that is like, oh my gosh, what if I run out of money? What if I don't? I don't really have anyone really to fall back on in that way, any connection. I just don't have, there's no alternative for me.Michael Jamin:But you didn't in New York either. I mean your family, but there are upstate New York,Mackenzie Barman:And it's just really tricky. And I think that there's a part of me that worries on some level all the time, but then there's a stronger part of me. I think that's pretty delusional in a good way, that I'm like, no, I'm certain that I'm supposed to do this, and I just can't falter. This is what I'm doing.Michael Jamin:When you mean do this, what do you mean? Do what?Mackenzie Barman:Just be an actor and be in this industry. I've always felt that way about myself, and it's weird. It's a weird just knowing, and I don't want to come off pretentious at all about it. I'm not saying, oh my God, I'm so good. It's more of just like a, no, I know this is what I have to do. It's weird.Michael Jamin:But I'm wondering if you, because you got a giant following. I mean, and it's weird. On TikTok, you have 3 million fans, but on any given day a hundred makes, it doesn't mean 3 million going to see your work. The algorithm is so weird. But I wonder if you have any bigger plans from this or from, what are they then, other than getting cast and having someone else? What else?Mackenzie Barman:No, so really, I really, truly, I think that I need to create the vehicle for myself. And I think a lot of people do that and need to do that. I don't think people just, it's rare that you're just discovered or someone's like you. I'm going to cast you. It's just so rare. And so I am definitely being proactive with writing and stuff, and I've written a pilot. I have a treatment for that pilot, and that's the clearest idea I have. I'm also writing a one woman show at the moment, like a stage show. Great. I'm in the early planning stages, early as is. I just had this idea two days ago of a monthly kind of mackenzie and Friends comedy show.Michael Jamin:WhatMackenzie Barman:Kind of show? I think I want it just to be a variety show of whatever the comedians want to do.Michael Jamin:And it'll be a stage show.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, stage show. And I would just host it. But also, I have treatments that I'm working on for TV series and movies, and so I'm flushing those out, getting everything in order. I really, really want to pitch in 2024 and be ready for that. And I also want to write,It's something, excuse me, that I kind of recently, I think I always have liked that part of the process, but I think in my mind, I always thought to be a writer, you have to sit down and write, there's only one way to do it, and this is how you have to do it. But I'm learning that it's just not that way. I think David Mamet, he paces and he talks out loud before he ever sits down to write. And so I did. I host a podcast that I'm bringing back in January that I had Cola Cola on, and I love them. And I was talking to them and I was saying that, oh, I'm not a writer. And they were like, no, you just do it backwards. And they write on TV shows and all that. And it really changed. They had an effect on me when they said that because it really changed.Michael Jamin:So what is your intention with the podcast then? You're busy. Well, theMackenzie Barman:Podcast. I know, I'm trying, I'm so the podcast, it's called Bullshittery. It had one season, but I did it on TikTok Live, and I did not like that format at all. I thought it would be fun and experimental, and it just felt like a TikTok Live and not an actual podcast. So I'm doing it now in person in January, now that I'm here, and it's like an interview-based podcast, but it's very loose structure and just chatting with different people that are kind of in the industry, our comedians, and just a loy sheet of shit.Michael Jamin:You're going to rent a studio for that?Mackenzie Barman:I'm going to do it in my apartment. InMichael Jamin:Your apartment? Yeah. Very good. So you got to get another microphone. Is that what you're going to do? I got toMackenzie Barman:Get another mic.Michael Jamin:And you got to edit it though.Mackenzie Barman:And I got to edit it. Yeah,Michael Jamin:That's work too.Mackenzie Barman:I know, I know. And TikTok live was easy because the sound and the video were just there. I really didn't have to edit that. But this I will, because I'm going to up the quality a little bit. I'm going to use a proper camera and do it. Do it right.Michael Jamin:You can need a couple cameras. You probably, you want two cameras and maybe a master. Right.Mackenzie Barman:I was thinking that of either doing one and just keeping it in a two shot the whole time, which some people do. But also doing the single cam on each side. I don't know yet. I don't know yet. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. Oh,Michael Jamin:I don't know. There are studios that you can go and rent it out and they'll do the whole thing, but you pay by the hour.Mackenzie Barman:I know. I, I did that once in la. It was actually a great experience. I love doing it, but I'd rather, because I don't have any sponsors yet. Once I get sponsors, then I can kind of up my,Michael Jamin:I think you need around 10,000 downloads to get meaningful sponsors. I think IMackenzie Barman:So, I think so. Yeah.Michael Jamin:You're probably not there yet, but you will be. Don'tMackenzie Barman:Think. But I'm also a terrible marketer, so when I was doing the podcast before, I posted a couple of videos and I was like, this just is not me. And I need to get past that. I need to just sell my stuff, but I feel guilty.Michael Jamin:But I bet you people don't even know. I mean, people don't, you've got a giant following. They may not be aware of it. You don't have to market it. You say, oh, by the way, new episode tomorrow. I haveMackenzie Barman:Some, no, I know. I really just need to do the clips, the podcast clips.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah. You'll figure it out.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I'll figure it out. Yeah,Michael Jamin:You will. I mean, you absolutely will. And maybe you'll do characters talking about your podcast.Mackenzie Barman:I know. I do want to do that. I want to do bits. If I have someone to banter with and go into character with, I'll definitely do that. Yeah.Michael Jamin:It's amazing how when I moved to la, I was young. I didn't have any of this shit that you got going on. I didn't even occur. I don't know. I wasn't as extroverted and as, I don't think, as confident as you are. So yeah, you're going places.Mackenzie Barman:I'm trying. I really am trying. Well, I know where I have to end up, so I know that I need to get in there.Michael Jamin:And when you say, and okay, you want to be on tv, you want to be, the problem is not many sitcoms anymore.Mackenzie Barman:I know. Well, I really, I am more of a streaming series girl. My ideal dream seriously would be to be a series regular on an hour long drama, drama d kind of a show that would be like,Michael Jamin:Tell me what show that you absolutely love that you wish you could be part ofMackenzie Barman:Something,Michael Jamin:And it doesn't have to be on the air anymore. SoMackenzie Barman:Yeah, there's a couple there, obviously. Huh? Well, I loved Big Little Lies. I love an ensemble like that. The White Lotus. If I could be on the White Lotus, that would be the, honestly, above all, that would be the show I would want to be on right now.Michael Jamin:Wow. Okay.Mackenzie Barman:Succession would've been one that I would've wanted to be on. It has that snarky, realistic element to it that I love. But I also love shows like Search Party or The Comeback. I want to do a mockumentary. I want to play a version of myself. Right. Yeah.Michael Jamin:I don't, well, you can do a series on TikTok. Just bang something out.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. Yeah.Michael Jamin:I don't know. You already are. You kind of already are.Mackenzie Barman:I kind of already am. And I do try to sprinkle in dramatic elements too sometimes. And I don't know, it's funny. I like to evoke weird reactions from people. I'm laughing, but I'm also upset. I making people feel like that.Michael Jamin:I wonder, I think you're going to get to the point, I don't know, maybe you already are, where your reps, your agent manager, whatever, introduce new clients to you as to spring help springboard them. You really have a big platform. Has that coming? Has that happened yet?Mackenzie Barman:No, not yet. I don't know. It's so hard now because it's so forward facing too. I feel like there are some people that just do so well with the pop culture element of being present and being up to date with pop culture, I think is so huge. And I don't really touch upon that too, too much. So there's that small aspect I think that's keeping me from going even bigger. You know what I mean?Michael Jamin:Well, you did a piece where you kind of made fun of Congress when they were doing the TikTok here. Yes.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. I'll mess around with it sometimes if I see a good opportunity and I'll do it.Michael Jamin:But you think you need to be more topical?Mackenzie Barman:I think from what I see, and this might just be because we all have different worlds now too, which is another thing from my world, it seems like the people that do really well and that become kind of more forward facing are people who lean into pop culture and things that are really trending in that moment. And I feel like I maybe just don't do that enough. Not that it's a bad thing. It's almost intentional maybe. ButMichael Jamin:Are you studying people wondering, are you trying to emulate other creators? Is that what you mean?Mackenzie Barman:No, I don't think I'm trying to emulate any other creators. I honestly think my biggest influences come from people outside of TikTok.Michael Jamin:Who are they then? Who are your influences?Mackenzie Barman:Like Lisa Kudrow, Tony Collette, actors,Michael Jamin:Amy Think, Amy Poller,Mackenzie Barman:Amy Poer, the classics. They're like,Michael Jamin:And do you think of them to get inspiration, or what do you mean when you mention them?Mackenzie Barman:I think that's just what comes together in my brain. It is all in there, and then it just all goes away, and then something comes out from it. I don't think I'm actively thinking like, oh, I need to channel Amy Po here, or be, I think the person that I'm closest to unintentionally, but I'll notice it sometimes, is Lisa Kudrow. I think I just love her so much and her isms that I feel like I might imitate her more than I even realized. Watch videos sometimes I'll be like, that was very Lisa cre. I'm like, that moment. But I think I'm developing my unique voice that's a blend of all these people.Michael Jamin:That's the step. And then I was going to say, how do you use art to influence what you do if you do? Yeah.Mackenzie Barman:How do I use art to influence?Michael Jamin:Yeah. I don't know. I guess what I'm asking is where are you drawing inspiration from? Who would you love to be? And maybe it's Lisa Kra. I know your version of them, but whatever.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I don't really know. I feel like I always have the thought in my brain that I, I'm very conscious about what I'm putting out. Is this too silly that it's dumb? Or is it too serious that I feel like, oh my gosh, I don't even know what really influences myMichael Jamin:Well, are there videos then that you don't put out? I mean, you shoot and you're like, eh, I'm not putting this up.Mackenzie Barman:Rarely. Most of those are the silly tiktoks of if I see a viral sound or something and I'll just do it, but I won't post it, I'll just do it. I dunno. It feels weird. It feels like I'm breaking some rule with myself to go outside of, and it might be this snobbish thing that I'm doing. It might be like, oh, I need to be this character actor person. And then if I break out of that and I'm just like a real girly girl, I don't know, maybe. I don't know.Michael Jamin:Well, but that's interesting. I feel there are certain trends and there's certain challenges you could do, and I don't partake in any of that shit. I feel like I'm too old for it, but I also feel like that's just not my brand. I'm not going to do any of that. And I wonder if you feel the same way.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, I'll watch them and I'll enjoy them. Even sometimes I'll do them and I'll record them, and then I've posted a couple some, but most of the time it just feels weird to do it. I feel like I'm like, again, maybe that's that imposter syndrome creeping. I'm like, nobody wants to see me do this. Nobody wants to hear me talk about this or,Michael Jamin:Yeah, but then, and you might be right, the thing is, you might be right. You might try that. And if you get almost, I dunno, whatever, a low view count, then you're like, I guess they didn't want to hear it then. And it may just be random.Mackenzie Barman:And then you're in your head like, oh my gosh, if I'm my real self and they don't like it, right? Oh my God, they don't like me, do I? And I think maybe that's part of it too. It's like I am confident when I'm acting because it's not me anymore. It's like it's somebody else. Their fear is gone really of like, well, if you don't like it, it's not me. You don't like, it's them you don't like. But when it's just me being myself, I'm questioning my humor. I'm questioning my relatability. I'm questioning my, am I girly enough? Am I quirky? It's too many thoughts.Michael Jamin:No, I get that. I mean, on the occasions that I'm funny in my video, I'm like, this better be funny. This guy says he's a comedy writer. What's going to throw shade at me? And they'll be, right.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah. But I admire that. And it seems silly when I'm talking about it, it seems like just be yourself. I know people love me, but I don't know. It just feels weird. But I admire so much, and I watch all the videos of people who are just like, story time. I'm going to tell you this time. And I love that. I don't know. I just feel like if I do it, I'll record it and watch it. I'll be like, the story is dumb. Or I don't know, a lot of self-doubt, but it's weird. It's like I can have self-doubt here, but then I'm like, no, this is amazing. Somewhere else.Michael Jamin:Right. Okay. And is there any thought, I guess there isn't because you kind of improv this, but I'm always thinking, I better get too, because people got that thumb on and they can scroll so fast. Do you give any thought to that? How fast you're going to get this thing moving? How fast you're going to get to the good part?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Because I think sometimes the music helps if people, that's why I always will use sinister music, because people immediately are like, oh, what's going on here? And I think that will compensate for me taking my beats and taking my sweet time with it. Because at the end of the day too, I love storytelling and I love of keeping people engaged with something. So I kind of let the music do that part. But I do think about that, oh, I should really get to it quickly within the first 10, 15 seconds at least. But even then, it's too late.Michael Jamin:It's so interesting. I don't know how we're supposed to handle any of this, but again, I guess I want to get back to you before I get to let you go, before you respond. The relationships that you've formed, I guess they are your fans and you correspond with them, whatever.Mackenzie Barman:And a couple have become friends, a couple of Really, yeah. There's a couple people that I've just messaged and just vibed with you just kind of, most of the time it's like nothing. But doMichael Jamin:They reach out to you first? Or how does that work?Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, there have been a couple people that I noticed will comment a lot, and then I'll kind of randomly respond to dms on Instagram. I respond to a lot of dms, honestly. But then sometimes if there's just, you just know energetically. If they're kind of odd or they're kind of pushy or they say something weird, then I'm like, okay, bye. But sometimes they'll be kind of funny and kind of like bantering. I'm like, huh, okay. There's a girl, Faye, I love her. Shout out Faye. She's from Ireland. And I love people that are not from the United States, too. If you're from England or Ireland or somewhere, I'm going to love you automatically. But she's from Ireland, and we were kind of joking about her teaching me an Irish accent, whatever. So we were like voice memoing back and forth. And then she's the one who now Photoshops my Danny and Babs photos. She's just amazing at it. And she's like, I'll just do it. Don't worry about it. I'm like,Michael Jamin:Oh, wow.Mackenzie Barman:Okay.Michael Jamin:Isn't that nice? IMackenzie Barman:Love her. I love her. Wow.Michael Jamin:It's such an interesting, I don't know, community, and I wonder how big this thing is. I wonder how many creators. There's a small circle that I seem to be in, and I'm like, is this everybody? Or am I missing about 10 billion of us?Mackenzie Barman:I think it's both because I feel like it's a small world. Most of the time, the people I know, the other people that I know and influencers are comedic content creators. But then there will be somebody with 12 million followers who I've never seen or heard of before, and I'm like, I did not know you even existed, but you're so famous on the internet. And I'm like, I've never seen you. So it's weird.Michael Jamin:And you reach out to them, or No, you just follow them orMackenzie Barman:Something. Oh, no, I'll just hear about it. Or I'll see a random person pop up on TikTok and go to their profile and they have 12 million. And I'm like, I have never seen you before. It's just odd. It's suchMichael Jamin:An odd thing. There's this woman that I follow, and maybe you've heard of her. She's digging a ton under her house, butMackenzie Barman:I want to be on that.Michael Jamin:Yeah. I don't know where she lives, but she has a house and she's literally digging. She has a lab coat, and she's pouring concrete and she's digging, and it's just her passion. But I don't know if she's a, I don't thinkMackenzie Barman:She is that legal. Can you do that?Michael Jamin:Right. And she's not really, I don't think she's a certified structural engineer, but she has all these books and she's reading them. She's like, and this is how I learned how to do the electricity. It's like, oh my God, I just had to read this book. And so she's like a mad scientist. And then she was picked up on Yahoo. Yahoo did an article about her, and then I DMed her. Look at, you're on Yahoo now.Mackenzie Barman:Oh my gosh.Michael Jamin:There's just so many interesting people doing interesting things. I'm like, wow.Mackenzie Barman:No, I know. I'm deep on some tiktoks. I love conspiracy talk. I love it. I don't buy into it, but I love it.Michael Jamin:But see, I don't want to, don't think you want to get too far. You don't want to.Mackenzie Barman:I know.Michael Jamin:I know. You can keep them from a distance, but you don't want to,Mackenzie Barman:You start to tread a line where you're like, wait a minute, this is suddenly not where I want to be. That happens.Michael Jamin:Right? Wow. Mackenzie, thank you so much for joining me. What an interesting, again, I have such admiration for what you do and I'm a fan, and there it is. Yeah,Mackenzie Barman:I mean, you too. I mean, we got to talk shop too at someMichael Jamin:Point. Well, when we finish this, we will do that, but I want to make sure everyone knows where to find you. So tell everyone what all your handles are.Mackenzie Barman:Yeah, follow me guys. I'm at Mackenzie Barman everywhere. So I'mMichael Jamin:EverywhereMackenzie Barman:At Mackenzie Barman. I'm mostly on TikTok and Instagram. But follow me on YouTube too, because I'll be there and SnapchatMichael Jamin:Can find me. I dunno anything about Snap, but alright. Thank you again and don't go anywhere. I'll sign off. I won't. Alright, everyone, another great talk. Be like her. Go follow her. Just put yourself out there and then work on it and you'll get better and better. Okay, everyone, until next week, keep creating.So now we all know what the hell Michael Jamin is talking about. If you're interested in learning more about writing, make sure you register for my free monthly webinars @michaeljamin.com/webinar. And if you found this podcast helpful or entertaining, please share it with a friend and consider leaving us a five star review on iTunes that really, really helps. For more of this, whatever the hell this is, follow Michael Jamin on social media @MichaelJaminwriter. And you can follow Phil Hudson on social media @PhilaHudson. This podcast was produced by Phil Hudson. It was edited by Dallas Crane and music was composed by Anthony Rizzo. And remember, you can have excuses or you can have a creative life, but you can't have both. See you next week.

In this episode of the Top of Mind podcast, Mike Simonsen sits down with Selma Hepp, Chief Economist at CoreLogic, to get her take on what's happening in the housing economy. Selma shares CoreLogic's forecast for 2024 home prices and mortgage rates, talks about the biggest surprises from 2023, and offers insights into how they hit the mark on their 2023 forecast when everyone else was expecting prices to fall. She also discusses CoreLogic's new Climate Risk Analysis platform and the growing impact of insurance costs in risky states. About Selma Hepp Selma Hepp is the Chief Economist for CoreLogic, America's largest provider of advanced property and ownership information, analytics and data-enabled services. Selma leads the economics team, which is responsible for analyzing, interpreting and forecasting housing and economic trends in real estate, mortgage and insurance. Prior to joining CoreLogic in 2020, Selma was Chief Economist and Vice President of Business Intelligence for Pacific Union International, later acquired by Compass, where she oversaw the vital economic and technology intelligence to drive the expanding brokerage's success. Selma also held the role of Chief Economist for Trulia; Senior Economist for the California Association of Realtors; and Economist and Manager for Public Policy and Homeownership research for the National Association of Realtors, as well as a special research assistant at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Selma frequently appears on local and national radio and television programs and has been widely quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times and many industry trade publications such as National Mortgage News and HousingWire. Selma received the HousingWire Women of Influence Award in 2022. Selma graduated from the State University of New York, Buffalo with an M.A. in Economics and holds a Ph.D. from the University of Maryland. Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn:  CoreLogic's 2024 home price & mortgage rate forecast Why their 2023 forecast for slight home price appreciation was so unusual at the time, and yet it turned out to be precisely correct Other big housing market surprises from 2023 Her biggest takeaways for 2024, including how much the mortgage market will rebound this year and why The surprising strength in refis in 2024 Her take on the most important trends in housing policy for 2024 What she's worried about macro-economically and with housing in particular over the near future Why Phoenix and Las Vegas outperformed Austin last year - even when all were big boom markets during the pandemic Key findings from CoreLogic's Quarterly investor report CoreLogic's new Climate Risk Analysis platform and the growing impact of insurance costs in risky states. Resources mentioned in this episode: Connect with Selma on LinkedIn CoreLogic Mike Simonsen on LinkedIn Altos Research Featuring Mike Simonsen, President of Altos Research A true data geek, Mike founded Altos Research in 2006 to bring data and insight on the U.S. housing market to those who need it most. The company now serves the largest Wall Street investment firms, banks, and tens of thousands of real estate professionals around the country. Mike's insights on the market have been featured in Forbes, New York Times, Bloomberg, Dallas Morning News, Seattle PI, and many other national media outlets. Follow us on Twitter for more data analysis and insights: Altos on Twitter Mike on Twitter About Altos Research The Top of Mind Podcast is produced by Altos Research. Each week, Altos tracks every home for sale in the country - all the pricing, and all the changes in pricing - and synthesizes those analytics to make them available before becoming visible through traditional channels. Schedule a demo to see Altos in action. You can also get a copy of our free eBook: How To Use Market Data to Build Your Real Estate Business.

Moving Out and Setting Up Your Own Place: Tips and Tech for the blind and low-vision community. In this new episode from Blind Level Tech, co-hosts Jonathan Price and Evan Starnes share experiences and tips about moving out and setting up your own place from a visually impaired perspective. Evan talks about his personal experience of moving into his new apartment, including setting up appliances, navigating the space, and his first impressions of living alone. They discuss the lack of braille on appliances and keys in most apartments and how they've come up with DIY solutions for this. They also recommend useful apartment hunting apps like Zillow and Trulia. The episode wraps up with their Sandwich of the Week segment and a reminder inviting listeners to email or call them if they have any questions or comments. If you would like to follow along with a transcript of this show, please visit https://share.descript.com/view/0LRpUBCWEe2 00:15 Introduction and Welcome 00:47 Discussing Audio Levels and Control 01:59 Weather Talk and Personal Updates 03:27 Tech Talk: Transitioning to M2 Mac Mini 07:06 Introducing After Sight 09:48 Listener's Message and Response 11:43 Moving Out and Setting Up a New Place 13:49 Advice for Moving Out and Tech Recommendations 27:33 Sandwich of the Week 28:58 Final Thoughts and Wrap Up Thank you for listening to this episode of BLT if you have any questions you would like us to answer on air please email us @feedback@aftersight.org or on our phone line (720) 712-8856. Have a wonderful week and don't forget to plug in your devices.

Kent C. Dodds, a JavaScript engineer and teacher known for Epic Web Dev and the Remix web framework, reflects on his journey in tech, including his tenure at PayPal and his transition to full-time teaching. Kent's passion for teaching is a constant theme throughout. He transitioned from corporate roles to full-time education, capitalizing on his ability to explain complex concepts in an accessible manner. This transition was marked by the creation of successful online courses like "Testing JavaScript and Epic React," which have significantly influenced the web development community. An interesting aspect of Kent's career is his involvement with Remix, including his decision to leave Shopify (which acquired Remix) to return to teaching, which led to the development of his latest project, Epic Web Dev, an extensive and innovative web development course. This interview provides a comprehensive view of Kent C. Dodds's life and career, showcasing his professional achievements in web development and teaching, his personal life as a family man, and his unique upbringing in a large family. Epic Web (https://www.epicweb.dev/) Remix (https://remix.run/) Follow Kent C. Dodds on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentcdodds/) or X (https://twitter.com/kentcdodds). Visit his website at kentcdodds.com (https://kentcdodds.com/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: WILL: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Will Larry. And with me today is Kent C. Dodds. Kent is a JavaScript engineer and teacher. He has recently released a massive workshop called epicweb.dev. And he is the father of four kids. Kent, thank you for joining me. KENT: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. WILL: Yeah. And it's an honor for me to have you. I am a huge fan. I think you're the one that taught me how to write tests and the importance of it. So, I'm excited to talk to you and just pick your brain and learn more about you. KENT: Oh, thank you. WILL: Yeah. So, I just want to start off just: who is Kent? What do you like to do? Tell us about your family, your hobbies, and things like that. KENT: Yeah, sure. So, you mentioned I'm the father of four kids. That is true. We are actually expecting our fifth child any day now. So, we are really excited to have our growing family. And when I'm not developing software or material for people to learn how to develop software, I'm spending time with my family. I do have some other hobbies and things, but I try to share those with my family as much as I can. So, it's starting to snow around here in Utah. And so, the mountains are starting to get white, and I look forward to going up there with my family to go skiing and snowboarding this season. During the summertime, I spend a lot of time on my one-wheel just riding around town and bring my kids with me when I can to ride bikes and stuff, too. So, that's sort of the personal side of my life. And then, professionally, I have been in this industry developing for the web professionally for over a decade. Yeah, web development has just worked out super well for me. I kind of focused in on JavaScript primarily. And when I graduated with a master's degree in Information Systems at Brigham Young University, I started working in the industry. I bounced around to a couple of different companies, most of them you don't know, but you'd probably be familiar with PayPal. I was there for a couple of years and then decided to go full-time on teaching, which I had been doing as, like, a part-time thing, or, like, on the side all those years. And yeah, when teaching was able to sustain my family's needs, then I just switched full-time. So, that was a couple of years ago that I did that. I think like, 2018 is when I did that. I took a 10-month break to help Remix get off the ground, the Remix web framework. They got acquired by Shopify. And so, I went back to full-time teaching, not that I don't like Shopify, but I felt like my work was done, and I could go back to teaching. So, that's what I'm doing now, full-time teacher. WILL: Wow. Yes, I definitely have questions around that. KENT: [laughs] Okay. WILL: So many. But I want to start back...you were saying you have four kids. What are their ages? KENT: Yeah, my oldest is 11, youngest right now is 6, and then we'll have our fifth one. So, all four of the kids are pretty close in age. And then my wife and I thought we were done. And then last December, we kind of decided, you know what? I don't think we're done. I kind of think we want to do another. So, here we go. We've got a larger gap between my youngest and the next child than we have between my oldest and the youngest child. WILL: [chuckles] KENT: So, we're, like, starting a new family, or [laughs] something. WILL: Yeah [laughs]. I just want to congratulate you on your fifth child. That's amazing. KENT: Thank you. WILL: Yeah. How are you feeling about that gap? KENT: Yeah, we were pretty intentional about having our kids close together because when you do that, they have built-in friends that are always around. And as they grow older, you can do the same sorts of things with them. So, like, earlier this year, we went to Disneyland, and they all had a great time. They're all at the good age for that. And so, they actually will remember things and everything. Yeah, we were pretty certain that four is a good number for us and everything. But yeah, we just started getting this nagging feeling we wanted another one. So, like, the fact that there's a big gap was definitely not in the plan. But I know a lot of people have big gaps in their families, and it's just fine. So, we're going to be okay; just it's going to change the dynamic and change some plans for us. But we're just super excited to have this next one. WILL: I totally understand what you mean by having them close together. So, I have three little ones, and my oldest and my youngest share the same exact birthday, so they're exactly three years apart. KENT: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's actually...that's fun. My current youngest and his next oldest brother are exactly two years apart. They share the same birthday, too [laughs]. WILL: Wow. You're the first one I've heard that their kids share a birthday. KENT: Yeah, I've got a sister who shares a birthday with her son. And I think we've got a couple of birthdays that are shared, but I also have 11 brothers and sisters [laughs]. And so, I have got a big family, lots of opportunity for shared birthdays in my family. WILL: Yeah, I was actually going to ask you about that. How was it? I think you're the 11th. So, you're the youngest of 11? KENT: I'm the second youngest. So, there are 12 of us total. I'm number 11. WILL: Okay, how was that growing up with that many siblings? KENT: I loved it. Being one of the youngest I didn't really...my experience was very different from my older siblings. Where my older siblings probably ended up doing a fair bit of babysitting and helping around the house in that way, I was the one being babysat. And so, like, by the time I got to be, like, a preteen, or whatever, lots of my siblings had already moved out. I was already an uncle by the time I was six. I vaguely remember all 12 of us being together, but most of my growing up was just every other year; I'd have another sibling move out of the house, which was kind of sad. But they'd always come back and visit. And now I just have an awesome relationship with every one of my family members. And I have something, like, 55 nieces and nephews or more. Yeah, getting all of us together every couple of years for reunions is really a special experience. It's a lot of fun. WILL: Yeah. My mom, she had 12 brothers and sisters. KENT: Whoa. WILL: And I honestly miss it because we used to get together all the time. I used to live a lot closer. Most of them are in Louisiana or around that area, and now I'm in South Florida, so I don't get to see them as often. But yeah, I used to love getting together. I had so many cousins, and we got in so much trouble...and it was -- KENT: [laughs] WILL: We loved it [laughs]. KENT: Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that. WILL: Yeah. Well, I want to start here, like, how did you get your start? Because I know...I was doing some research, and I saw that, at one point, you were an AV tech. You were a computer technician. You even did maintenance. Like, what was the early start of your career like, and how did you get into web dev? KENT: I've always been very interested in computers, my interest was largely video games. So, when I was younger, I had a friend who was a computer programmer or, like, would program stuff. We had visions of...I don't know if you're familiar with RuneScape, but it's this game that he used to play, and I would play a little bit. It was just a massive online multiplayer game. And so, we had visions of building one of those and having it just running in the background, making us money, as if that's how that works [laughter]. But he tried to teach me programming, and I just could not get it at all. And so I realized at some point that playing video games all the time wasn't the most productive use of my time on computers, and if I wanted my parents to allow me to be on computers, I needed to demonstrate that I could be productive in learning, and making things, and stuff. So, I started blogging and making videos and just, like, music videos. My friend, who was the programmer, he was into anime, or anime, as people incorrectly pronounce it. And [laughs] there was this website called amv.com or .org or something. It's Anime Music Videos. And so, we would watch these music videos. And I'd say, "I want to make a music video with Naruto." And so, I would make a bunch of music videos from the Naruto videos I downloaded, and that was a lot of fun. I also ran around with a camera to do that. And then, with the blog, I wrote a blog about Google and the stuff that Google was, like, doing because I just thought it was a fascinating company. I always wanted to work at Google. In the process of, like, writing the blog, I got exposed to CSS and HTML, but I really didn't do a whole lot of programming. I also did a little bit of Google Docs. Spreadsheets had some JavaScript macros-type things that you could do. So, I did a little bit of that, but I never really got too far into programming. Then I go to college, I'm thinking, you know what? I think I want to be a video editor. I really enjoy that. And so, my brother, who at the time was working at Micron, he did quality assurance on the memory they were making. So, he would build test automation, software and hardware for testing the memory they build. And so, he recommended that I go into electrical engineering. Because what he would say is, "If you understand computers at that foundational level, you can do anything with computers." And I'd say, "Well, I like computers. And if I go into video editing, I'm going to need to understand computers, too. So yeah, sure, let's let's do that." I was also kind of interested in 3D animation and stuff like that, too. Like, I wasn't very good at it, but I was kind of interested in that, too. So, I thought, like, having a really good foundation on computers would be a good thing for me. Well, I was only at school for a semester when I took a break to go on a mission for my church [inaudible 09:42] mission. And when I got back and started getting back into things, I took a math refresher course. That was, like, a half a credit. It wasn't really a big thing, but I did terrible in it. I did so bad. And it was about that time that I realized, you know what? I've been thinking my whole life that I'm good at math. And just thinking back, I have no idea why or any justification for why I thought I was good at math because in high school, I always struggled with it. I spent so much time with it. And in fact, my senior year, I somehow ended up with a free period of nothing else to do. I don't know how this happened. But, I used that free period to go to an extra edition of my calculus class. So, I was going to twice as much calculus working, like, crazy hard and thinking that I was good at this, and I superduper was not [laughter]. And so, after getting back from my mission and taking that refresher course, I was like, you know what? Math is a really important part of engineering, and I'm not good at it at all, obviously. And so, I've got to pivot to something else. Well, before my mission, as part of the engineering major, you needed to take some programming classes. So, there was a Java programming class that I took and a computer systems class that included a lot of programming. The computer systems was very low level, so we were doing zeros and ones. And I wrote a program in zeros and ones. All that it did was it would take input from the keyboard, and then spit that back out to you as output. That was what it did. But still, you know, many lines of zeros and ones and just, like, still, I can't believe I did that [laughter]. And then we upgraded from that to Assembly, and what a godsend that was [laughs], how wonderful Assembly was after working in machine code. But then we upgraded from that to C, and that's as far as that class went. And then, yeah, my Java class, we did a bunch of stuff. And I just remember thinking or really struggling to find any practicality to what we were doing. Like, in the Java class, we were implementing the link to list data structure. And I was like, I do not care about this. This does not make any sense. Why should I care? We were doing these transistor diagrams in the computer systems class. And why do I care about that? I do not care about this at all. Like, this is not an interesting thing for me. So, I was convinced computer programming was definitely not what I wanted to do. So, when I'm switching from electrical engineering, I'm thinking, well, what do I do? And my dad convinced me to try accounting. That was his profession. He was a certified public accountant. And so, I said, "Okay, I'll try that." I liked the first class, and so I switched my major to go into the business school for accounting. I needed to take the next accounting class, and I hated that so much. It was just dull and boring. And I'm so glad that I got out of that because [laughs] I can't imagine doing anything like that. WILL: [laughs] KENT: But as part of switching over to business school, I discovered information systems. What's really cool about that is that we were doing Excel spreadsheets and building web pages. But it was all, like, with a practical application of business and, like, solving business problems. And then, I was like, oh, okay, so I can do stuff with computers in a practical setting, and that's what got me really interested. So, I switched, finally, to information systems–made it into that program. And I was still not convinced I wanted to do programming. I just wanted to work with computers. What ended up happening is the same time I got into the information systems program, I got married to my wife, and then I got this part-time job at a company called the More Good Foundation. It's a non-profit organization. And one of my jobs was to rip DVDs and upload those videos to YouTube, and then also download videos from one site and upload those to YouTube as well. And so, I was doing a lot of stuff with YouTube and video stuff. And as part of my information systems class, I was taking another Java class. At that same time, I was like, you know, what I'm doing at work is super boring. Like, can you imagine your job is to put in a [inaudible 13:45] and then click a couple of buttons? And, like, it was so boring and error-prone, too. Like, okay, now I've got to type this out and, you know, I got to make sure it's the same, try and copy-paste as much as I can. And it was not fun. And so, I thought, well, I'm pretty sure there are pieces of this that I could automate. And so, with the knowledge that I was getting in my information systems programming class, that was another Java class, I decided to write a program that automated a bunch of my stuff. And so, I asked my boss, like, "Can I automate this with writing software?" And I'm so glad that they said I could. WILL: [laughs] KENT: Because by the end of it, I had built software that allowed me to do way more than I ever could have before. I ended up uploading thousands of videos to their YouTube channels, which would have taken years to do. And they ended up actually being so happy with me. They had me present to the board of directors when they were asking for more money [laughs] and stuff. And it was really awesome. But still, I was not interested in being a programmer. Programming, to me, was just a means to an end. WILL: Oh, wow. KENT: Yeah, I guess there was just something in me that was like, I am not a programmer. So, anyway, further into the program of information systems, I interned as a business intelligence engineer over that next summer, and I ended up staying on there. And while I was supposed to be a business intelligence engineer, I did learn a lot about SQL, and star schema, and denormalized databases to optimize for read speed and everything. I learned a lot about that. But I just kept finding myself in positions where I would use my programming experience to automate things that were problematic for us in the business realm. And this was all still Java. It was there that I finally realized, you know what? I think I actually do want to be a programmer. I actually really do enjoy this. And I like that it's practical, and it makes sense for me, so… WILL: What year was that? KENT: That would have been 2012. Then I got a new job where my job was actually to be a programmer at a company called Domo, where they do business intelligence, actually. So, it got my foot in the door a little bit since I was a business intelligence engineer already. I got hired on, actually, as a QA engineer doing automated testing, but I never really got into that. And they shifted me over pretty quick into helping with the web app. And that is when I discovered JavaScript, and the whole, like, everything flooded out from there. I was like, wow, I thought I liked programming, but I had no idea how fun it could be. Because I felt like the chains had been broken. I no longer have to write Java. I can write JavaScript, and this was just so much better. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And so, yeah, I was there for a year and a half before I finally graduated. And I took a little break to work at USAA for a summer internship. And when I came back, I had another year and then converted to full-time. And so, yeah, there's my more detail than you were probably looking for, story of how I got into programming [laughs]. WILL: No, I actually love it because like I said, I've used your software, your teachings, all that. And it's amazing to hear the story of how you got there. Because I feel like a lot of times, we just see the end result, but we don't know the struggle that you went through of even trying to find your way through what your purpose was, what you're trying to do. Because, at one point, you said you were trying to do accounting, then you were trying to do something else. So, it's amazing to see, like, when it clicked for you when you got into JavaScript, so that's amazing. KENT: Yeah, it is kind of funny to think, like, some people have the story of, like, I knew I wanted to be a programmer from the very beginning, and it's just kind of funny for me to think back and, like, I was pretty certain I didn't want to be a programmer. WILL: [laughs] KENT: Like, not only did I, like, lots of people will say, "I never really thought about it, and then I saw it, and it was great." But I had thought about it. And I saw it, and I thought it was awful [laughter]. And so, yeah, I'm really glad that it worked out the way it did, though, because programming has just been a really fun thing. Like, I feel so blessed to be doing something that I actually enjoy doing. Like so many of our ancestors, they would go to work because they cared about their family and they just wanted to feed their family. I'm so grateful to them for doing that. I am so lucky that I get to go to work to take care of my family, but also, I just love doing it. WILL: Yeah, I feel the same way, so yeah, totally agree. After you found out about JavaScript, when did you figure out that you want to teach JavaScript? What was that transition like? KENT: I've been teaching for my whole life. It's ingrained in my religion. Even as a kid, you know, I'd prepare a talk, a five-minute talk, and stand up in front of 30 of my peers. And even when you're an early teenager, you get into speaking in front of the entire congregation. It took a while before I got good enough at something, enough hubris to think that people would care about what I have to say -- WILL: [laughs] KENT: Outside of my religion where, like, they're sitting there, and I've been asked to speak, and so they're going to listen to me. And so, when I started getting pretty good at programming, I decided, hey, I want to teach this stuff that I'm learning. And so, when I was still at school and working at Domo, the business intelligence company, one of our co-workers, Dave Geddes, he put together a workshop to teach AngularJS because we were migrating from Backbone to Angular. And I asked him if I could use his workshop material to teach my classmates. This was, like, soon after ng-conf, the first ng-conf, which my co-workers at Domo actually put on. So, I wasn't involved in the organization, but I was very much present when it was being organized. I attended there and developed a relationship with Firebase with the people there. I was actually...they had a developer evangelist program, which they called Torchbearers or something. And actually, that was my idea to call them Torchbearers. I think they wanted to call us torches, and I'm like, that just doesn't make sense. WILL: [laughs] KENT: I developed a relationship with them. And I asked them, "Hey, I want to teach my classmates AngularJS. Would you be interested in sponsoring some pizza and stuff?" And they said, "Yeah, we'll send you stickers, and hot sauce, and [laughs] a bunch of..." Like, they sent us, like, headphones [laughs] and stuff. So, I was like, sweet. I taught my classmates AngularJS in a workshop, brought a bunch of pizza, and it was, you know, just an extracurricular thing. And actually, the recording is still on my YouTube channel, so if you want to go look at one of my early YouTube videos. I was very into publishing video online. So, if you are diligent, you'll be able to find some of my very early [laughter] videos from my teenage years. But anyway, so, yes, I've been teaching since the very beginning. As soon as I graduated from college, I started speaking at meetups. I'd never been to a meetup before, and I just saw, oh, they want a speaker. I can talk about something. WILL: Wow. KENT: And not realizing that, like, meetups are literally always looking for speakers. This wasn't some special occasion. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And one of the meetups I spoke at was recorded and put on YouTube. And the guy who started Egghead io, John Lindquist, he is local here in Utah. And he saw that I spoke at that meetup, but he wasn't able to attend. So, he watched the recording, and he thought it was pretty good. He thought I would do a good job turning that into a video course. And that first video course paid my mortgage. WILL: Wow. KENT: And I was blown away. This thing that I had been doing just kind of for fun speaking at meetups, and I realized, oh, I can actually, like, make some legit good money out of this. From there, I just started making more courses on the side after I put the kids to bed. My wife is like, "Hey, I love you, but I want you to stay away for now because I've just been with these tiny babies all day. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And I just need some alone time." WILL: Yes. KENT: And so, I was like, okay. WILL: [laughs] KENT: I'll just go and work on some courses. And so, I spent a lot of time for the next couple of years doing course material on the side. I reached out to Frontend Masters and just told them, "Hey, I've been doing courses for Egghead." I actually met Marc Grabanski at a conference a couple of years before. And so, we established a little bit of relationship. And I just said, "Hey, I want to come and teach there." So, I taught at Frontend Masters. I started putting on my own workshops at conferences. In fact, just a few months after graduating, I got accepted to speak at a conference. And only after I was accepted did I realize it was in Sweden [laughter]. I didn't think to look where in the world this conference was. So, that was my first international trip, actually, and I ended up speaking there. I gave, actually, two talks. One of them was a three-hour talk. WILL: Whoa. KENT: Which was, yeah, that was wild. WILL: [laughs] KENT: And then, yeah, I gave a two-day workshop for them. And then, I flew straight from there to Amsterdam to give another talk and also do a live in-person podcast, which I'd been running called ngAir, an Angular podcast. It just kept on building from there until finally, I created testingjavascript.com. And that was when I realized, oh, okay, so this isn't just a thing I can use to pay my mortgage, and that's nice. This is, like, a thing I can do full-time. Because I made more with Testing JavaScript than I made from my PayPal salary. WILL: Oh wow. KENT: I was like, oh, I don't need both of these things. I would rather work half as much one full-time job; that's what I want, one full-time job and make enough to take care of my family. And I prefer teaching. So, that's when I left PayPal was when I released Testing JavaScript. WILL: Wow. So, for me, I think so many times the imposter syndrome comes up whenever I want to teach or do things at the level you're saying you're doing. Because I love teaching. I love mentoring. I remember when I came into development, it was hard. I had to find the right person to help me mentor. So now, I almost made a vow to myself that if someone wants to learn and they're willing to put in the energy, I'm going to sit down however long it takes to help them because I remember how hard it was for me whenever I was doing it. So, you said in 2014, you were only a couple years doing development. How did you overcome impostor syndrome to stand in front of people, teach, go around the world, and give talks and podcasts? Like, how did you do that portion? KENT: Part of it is a certain level of hubris like I said. Like, you just have to be willing to believe that somebody's going to care. You know, the other part of it is, it's a secret to getting really, really good at something. They sometimes will say, like, those who can't do teach. That's total baloney because it requires a lot of being able to do to get you in a position where you can teach effectively. But the process of teaching makes you better at the process of doing as well. It's how you solidify your experience as a whatever. So, if you're a cook, you're really good at that; you will get better by teaching other people how to cook. There's an element of selfishness in what I do. I just want to get really, really good at this, and so I'm going to teach people so that I can. So yeah, I think there's got to be also, like, a little bit of thick skin, too, because people are going to maybe not like what you have to share or think that you're posing or whatever. Learn how to let that slide off you a little bit. But another thing is, like, as far as that's concerned, just being really honest about what your skill set is. So, if somebody asks me a question about GraphQL, I'm going to tell them, "Well, I did use GraphQL at PayPal, but I was pretty limited. And so, I don't have a lot of experience with that," and then I'll answer their question. And so, like, communicating your limitations of knowledge effectively and being okay being judged by people because they're going to judge you. It just is the way it is. So, you just have to learn how to cope well with that. There are definitely some times where I felt like I was in over my head on some subjects or I was involved in a conversation I had no business being there. I actually felt that a lot when I was sent as PayPal's delegate to the TC39 meetings. Wow, what am I doing here? I've only been in the industry for, like, two or three years at [laughter] that point. It takes a certain level of confidence in your own abilities. But also, like, being realistic about your inexperience as well, I think, is important too. WILL: Yeah, I know that you had a lot of success, and I want to cover that next. But were there any failures when you were doing those teaching moments? KENT: Years ago, Babel was still a new thing that everybody was using to compile their JavaScript with new syntax features down to JavaScript that the browser could run. There was ES Modules that was introduced, and lots of us were doing global window object stuff. And then we moved to, like, defining your dependencies with r.js or RequireJS. And then, there was CommonJS, and Universal Module Definition, and that sort of thing. So, ECMAScript modules were very exciting. Like, people were really interested in that. And so, Babel added support to it. It would compile from the module syntax down to whatever you wanted: CommonJS or...well, I'm pretty sure it could compile to RequireJS, but I compiled it to CommonJS. And so, there was a...yeah, I would say it's a bug in Babel at that time, where it would allow you to write your ES modules in a way that was not actually spec-compliant. It was incorrect. So, I would say export default some object, and then in another module, I would say import. And then, I'd select properties off of the object that I exported, that default I exported. That was allowed by Babel, but it is superduper, not how ECMAScript modules work. Well, the problem is that I taught, like, a ton of people how to use ECMAScript modules this way. And when I realized that I was mistaken, it was just, like, a knife to the heart because I was, like, I taught so many people this wrong thing. And so, I wrote a blog post about it. I gave a big, long talk titled “More Than You Want to Know About ECMAScript Modules,” where I talk about that with many other things as well. And so, yeah, just trying to do my part to make up for the mistake that I made. So yes, I definitely have had mistakes like that. There's also, like, the aspect that technology moves at a rapid pace. And so, I have old things that I would show people how to do, which they still work just as well as they worked back then. But I wouldn't recommend doing it that way because we have better ways now. For some people, the old way to do it is the only way they can do it based on the constraints they have and the tools that they're using and stuff. And so, it's not, like, it's not valuable at all. But it is a struggle to make sure that people understand that, like, this is the way that you do it if you have to do it this way, but, like, we've got better ways. WILL: I'm glad you shared that because it helps. And I love how you say it: when I make a mistake, I own up to it and let everyone know, "Hey, I made a mistake. Let's correct it and move on." So, I really like that. KENT: Yeah, 100%. MID-ROLL AD: Are your engineers spending too much time on DevOps and maintenance issues when you need them on new features? We know maintaining your own servers can be costly and that it's easy for spending creep to sneak in when your team isn't looking. By delegating server management, maintenance, and security to thoughtbot and our network of service partners, you can get 24x7 support from our team of experts, all for less than the cost of one in-house engineer. Save time and money with our DevOps and Maintenance service. Find out more at: tbot.io/devops. WILL: I want to go back to what you were saying. When you left PayPal, you released Testing JavaScript. How did you come up with the idea to write a Testing JavaScript course? And, two, how long did it take to take off and be successful? KENT: That was a pretty special thing, honestly. In 2018, I had put together a bunch of workshops related to testing. There was this conference called Assert(js) that invited me to come, taught them. In the year prior, I went to Midwest JS and taught how to test React. I had this material about testing. I'd gotten into testing just because of open-source stuff. I didn't want to have to manually go through all my stuff again every time I wanted to check for breakages and stuff, so that got me into testing. And whatever I'm into is what I'm going to teach. So, I started teaching that testing. And then my friend, Ryan Florence, put together...he separated from Michael Jackson with React Training, and built his own thing called Workshop.me. He asked me to join up with him. And he would, like, put together these workshops for me, and I would just...my job was just to show up and teach. And so, I did that. I have a picture, actually, in this blog post, The 2010s Decade in Review, of me in front of 60 people at a two-day workshop at Trulia in San Francisco. WILL: Oh, wow. KENT: And this is where I was teaching my testing workshop. Well, what's interesting about that photo is that two weeks before that, I had gotten really frustrated with the tool that everybody uses or used at the time for testing React, and that was Enzyme. And so I was preparing this workshop or working on it. I had already delivered it a number of times, but I was working on it, improving it, as I always do [laughs] when I'm preparing. WILL: [laughs] KENT: I can never give the same workshop twice, I guess. And I was just so frustrated that Enzyme was so difficult to work with. And, like, I was going to prepare this document that said, "Here are all the things you should never do with Enzyme. Like, Enzyme encourages you to do these things; you should not do these things. And let me explain why." And I just hated that I needed a document like that. And so, I tweeted, "I'm seriously starting to think that I should make my own very small testing lib and drop Enzyme entirely. Most of Enzyme's features are not at all useful and many damaging to my test bases. I'd rather have something smaller that encourages better practices." And so, I tweeted that March 15th, 2018. I did that. I did exactly that. What I often do in my workshops is I try to build the abstraction that we're going to use so that you can use it better. So, I was, like, building Enzyme, and I realized the jump between what I had built, the little utilities that I had built as part of the workshop, from that to Enzyme was just a huge leap. And so, I thought, you know what? These utilities that I have built to teach Enzyme are actually really good. What if I just turned that into a testing utility? And that became Testing Library, which, fast forward to today, is the number one testing library for React. And it's recommended for testing React, and Vue, and Angular. The ideas that are in Testing Library got adopted by Playwright. If you're writing tests for anything in the browser, you are very likely using something that was either originally developed by me or inspired by the work that I did. And it all came from that testing workshop that I was working on. So, with that, I had not only that testing workshop; I had a number of other workshops around testing. And so I approached Joel Hooks from Egghead.io. I say, "Hey, I'm getting ready to record a bunch of Egghead courses. I've got, like, six or seven courses I want to do." And he'd seen my work before, you know, I was a very productive course creator. And he said, "Hey, how about we, you know, we've been thinking about doing this special thing. How about we make a website just dedicated to your courses?" And I said, "That sounds great." I was a little bit apprehensive because I knew that putting stuff on Egghead meant that I had, like, a built-in audience and everything that was on Egghead, so this would be really the first time of me just branching out with video material on my own. Because, otherwise, if it wasn't Egghead, it was Frontend Masters, and there was the built-in audience there. But yeah, we decided to go for it. And we released it in, I think, November. And it was that first week...which is always when you make the most is during the launch period. But that launch week, I made more than my PayPal salary for the entire year. And so, that was when I realized, oh, yeah, okay, let's go full-time on this because I don't need two PayPal salaries. I just need one. And then I can spend more time with my family and stuff. And especially as the kids are getting older, they're staying up later, and I want to hang out with them instead of with my computer at night [laughter], and so... WILL: I love how you explain that because I came in around 2018, 2019. And I remember Enzyme, and it was so confusing, so hard to work with, especially for, you know, a junior dev that's just trying to figure it out. And I remember Testing JavaScript and then using that library, and it was just so much easier to, like, grab whatever you needed to grab. Those utils made the biggest difference, and still today, they make a huge difference. So yes, I just resonate with what you're saying. That's amazing. KENT: Aw, thank you so much. WILL: Yeah. You did Testing JavaScript. And then what was your next course that you did? KENT: I quit PayPal, go full-time teaching. That first year, I actually did an update to Testing JavaScript. There were a couple of changes in Testing Library and other things that I needed to update it for. And then I started working on Epic React. So, while I was doing all this testing stuff, I was also very into React, creating a bunch of workshops around that. I was invited to speak all over the world to talk about React. And I had a couple of workshops already for React. So, I was invited to give workshops at these conferences about React. And so, I thought, you know, let's do this again, and we'll do it with React this time. The other thing was, I'd never really planned on being the testing guy. It just kind of happened, and I actually didn't really like it either. I wanted to be more broad than just testing. So, that kind of motivated me to say, hey, let's do something with React to be a little bit more broad. Yeah, so I worked on putting those workshops together and delivered them remotely. And then, yeah, COVID hit, and just really messed everything up [laughs] really bad. So, I had everything done on my end for Epic React by March of 2020, which is, like, immediately after COVID got started, in the U.S. at least. And so, yeah, then we actually didn't end up releasing Epic React until October that year, which, honestly [laughs], was a little bit frustrating for me because I was like, "Hey, guys, I have recorded all the videos and everything. Can we get this released?" But, like, that just was a really rough year for everybody. But yeah, so Egghead got the site put together. I did a bunch of interviews and stuff. And then we launched in October of 2020. That was way bigger than Testing JavaScript because Testing JavaScript was still very informed by my experience as an Egghead instructor, which, typically, the Egghead courses are, like, a video where watch me do this thing, and then you'll learn something and go apply it to your own stuff. And that's kind of what Testing JavaScript was built as. But as part of the update of Testing JavaScript in 2019, I added another workshop module called Testing Node Applications. And in that one, I decided, hey, typically, I would have a workshop version of my material and a course version. The workshop version had like instructions and exercises. And the course version was no instructions or anything. It was just, like, watch these videos. And it was just me doing the exercises. And with the update of Testing JavaScript, I added that Testing Node workshop, and I said, hey, what if we just, like, embrace the fact that these are exercises, and it's just, like, me recording the workshop? How I would deliver the workshop? And so, I tested that out, and that went really well. And so, I doubled down on that with Epic React. And I said, okay, now, this isn't just, like, watch these videos. This is a do the exercise and then watch me do the exercise. So, Epic React was not only a lot more material but the format of the material was more geared for retention and true practice and learning. And so, Epic React ended up doing much better than Testing JavaScript, and even still, is still doing a remarkable job as far as course material is concerned. And, like, so many people are getting a lot of really great knowledge from Epic React. So yeah, very gratifying to have that. WILL: Once again, I've used Epic React. It's taught me so many...stretched me. And I do like the format, so yes, I totally agree with that, yeah. The next thing, Remix, correct? KENT: Yeah. So, how I got into Remix, around the same time we finished recording Epic React videos, I was doing some other stuff kind of to keep content going and stuff while we were waiting to launch Epic React. And around that same time, my friend Ryan Florence and Michael Jackson––they were doing the React training thing. And so, we were technically competitors. Like I said, Ryan and I kind of joined forces temporarily for his Workshop Me thing, but that didn't end up working out very well. And Michael really wanted Ryan back, and so they got back together. And their React training business went way better than it had before. They were hiring people and all sorts of stuff. And then, a training business that focuses on in-person training just doesn't do very well when COVID comes around. And so, they ended up having to lay off everybody and tried to figure out, okay, now what are we going to do? Our income has gone overnight. This is a bit of a simplification. But they decided to build software and get paid for it like one does. So, they started building Remix. Ryan, actually, around that time, moved back to Utah. He and I would hang out sometimes, and he would share what he was working on with Michael. We would do, like, Zoom calls and stuff, too. I just got really excited about what they were working on. I could see the foundation was really solid, and I thought it was awesome. But I was still working on Epic React. I end up launching Epic React. He launches Remix the very next month as a developer preview thing. Yeah, it definitely...it looked a lot like current Remix in some ways but very, very different in lots of others. But I was super hooked on that. And so, I paid for the developer preview and started developing my website with it. And around the next year in August, I was getting close to finishing my website. My website is, like, pretty legit. If you haven't gone to kentcdodds.com. Yet, it is cooler than you think it is. There's a lot that goes into that website. So, I had a team help me with the product planning and getting illustrations and had somebody help me implement the designs and all that stuff. It was a pretty big project. And then, by August of 2021, Ryan and I were talking, and I said, "Hey, listen, I want to update Epic React to use Remix because I just think that is the best way to build React applications. But I have this little problem where Remix is a paid framework. That's just going to really reduce the number of people who are interested in learning what I have to teach. And on top of that, like, it just makes it difficult for people to test things out." And so, he, around that time, was like, "Hey, just hold off a little bit. We've got some announcements." And so, I think it was September when they announced that they'd raised VC money and they were going to make Remix open source. That was when Ryan said, "Hey, listen, Kent, I think that it's awesome you want to update Epic React to use Remix. But the problem is that Remix isn't even 1.0 yet. The community is super small. It needs a lot of help. If you release a course on Remix right now, then you're not going to get any attention because, like, nobody even knows what it is." So, part of me is like, yeah, that's true. But also, the other part of me is like, how do people find out what it is [laughs] unless there's, like, material about it? But he was right. And he said, "Listen, we've got a bunch of VC money. I've always wanted to work with you. How about we just hire you? And you can be a full-time teacher about Remix. But you don't have to charge anything. You just, like, make a bunch of stuff for free about Remix." I said, "That sounds great. But, you know, to make that worth my while because I'm really happy with what I'm doing with this teaching thing, like, I'm going to need a lot of Remix." And so, Michael Jackson was like, "How about we just make you a co-founder, and we give you a lot of Remix?" And I said, "Okay, let's do this." And so I jumped on board with them as a year-delayed co-founder. I guess that's pretty common. But, like, that felt kind of weird to me [laughs] to be called a co-founder. But yeah, so I joined up with them. I worked on documentation a little bit, mostly community building. I ran Remix Conf. Shopify was interested in what we were doing. And we were interested in what Shopify was doing because, at the time, they were working on Hydrogen, which was one of the early adopters of React Server Components. And, of course, everybody was interested in whether Remix was going to be adding support for server components. And Ryan put together a couple of experiments and found out that server components were nowhere near ready. And we could do better than server components could as of, you know, the time that he wrote the blog posts, like, two years ago. So, Hydrogen was working with server components. And I put us in touch with the Hydrogen team—I think it was me—to, like, talk with the Hydrogen team about, like, "Hey, how about instead of spending all this time building your own framework, you just build on top of Remix then you can, you know, make your Shopify starter projects just, like, a really thin layer on top of Remix and people will love it? And this is very important to us because we need to get users, especially really big and high profile users, so people will take us seriously." And so, we have this meeting. They fly a bunch of their people out to Salt Lake. They're asking us questions. We're asking them questions and saying, "Hey, listen, this is why server components are just not going to work out for you." Well, apparently, they didn't listen to us. It felt like they were just like, "No, we're highly invested in this. We've already sunk all this cost into this, but we're going to keep going." And they did end up shipping Hydrogen version 1 on top of server components, which I just thought was a big mistake. And it wasn't too long after that they came back and said, "Hey, we're kind of interested in having you guys join Shopify." So, right after Remix Conf, I go up into Michael's room at the hotel with Ryan. And they say, "Hey, listen, Kent, we're talking with Shopify about selling Remix and joining Shopify," and kind of bounced back and forth on whether we wanted to do it. All of us were just not sure. Because when I joined Remix, I was thinking, okay, we're going to build something, and it's going to be huge. This is going to be bigger than Vercel, like multibillion-dollar company. So, I really kind of struggled with thinking, hey, we're selling out. Like, we're just getting started here. So, Ryan and I ended up at RenderATL in Atlanta at that conference. We were both speaking there. And Ryan didn't fill out the right form. So, he actually didn't have a hotel room [laughs], and so he ended up staying in my room. I intentionally always get a double bedroom just in case somebody needs to stay with me because somebody did that for me once, and I just...it was really nice of them. So, I've always done that since. And so, I said, "Yeah, Ryan, you can stay with me." And so, we spent just a ton of time together. And this was all while we were trying to decide what to do with Shopify. And we had a lot of conversations about, like, what do we want for Remix in the future? And it was there that I realized, oh if I want to take this to, like, multi-billion dollar valuation, I've got to do things that I am not at all interested in doing. Like, you've got to build a business that is worth that much money and do business-related things. On top of all of that, to get any money out of it...because I just had a percentage of the company, not actually any money. There was no stock. So, the only way you can get money out of a situation like that is if you have a liquidation event like an IPO, which sounds, like, awful—I [laughs] would hate to go through an IP0—or you have to be bought. And if you're worth $2 billion, or 3, or whatever, who can buy you? There's almost nobody who can buy you at that valuation. Do you really want to outprice anybody that could possibly buy you? And then, on top of that, to get there, that's, like, a decade worth of your life of working really superduper hard to get to that point, and there's no guarantee. Ryan would always say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. He was saying Shopify is a bird in the hand, and we do not know what the future holds. And so, we were all finally convinced that, yeah, we want to sell, and so we decided, yeah, let's sell. And as the sale date grew closer, I was getting excited because I was like, oh, I can be back on the TC39 because Shopify is, like, I don't know if they're actually sending delegates to the TC39, but I'm sure that they would be interested if I ask them to, like, "Hey, let's be involved in the evolution of JavaScript." And I know they're on the Web Working Group. Like, they're on a bunch of different committees and stuff. And I just thought it'd be really cool to get involved in the web platform again. And then, on top of that, I just thought, you know what? I'll just spend all my time teaching Shopify developers how to use Remix. That sounds like a lot of fun. As things drew closer, I got more and more uneasy about that. And I thought, you know, I could probably do just as well for myself by going full-time teacher again. I've done this thing before. I just really like being a teacher and, like, having total control over everything that I do. And if I work at Shopify, they're going to tell me, "Hey, you need to, like, do this, and that, and the other." And I don't know if I want to go back to that. And so, I decided, this is awesome. Super, super good job, folks. I think I've done everything for you that you need me to do. I'm going to bail out. And so, yeah, Shopify wasn't super jazzed about that. But the deal went through anyway. And that's how I ended my time at Shopify. WILL: I love it. It's lining up perfectly because you say you left Shopify to go back doing more teaching. And then you released another course; that's Epic Web, correct? KENT: Right. That was the reason I left Shopify or I didn't join up with Shopify is because I wanted to work on Epic Web. In this 2010s blog post, one of the last things that I mention...toward the bottom, there's a section, KCD EDU, which is basically, like, I wanted to help someone go from zero to my level as an engineer in a single place where I teach just all of the things that I can teach to get somebody there. And so I wanted to call it KCD EDU, but I guess you have to be an accredited university to get that domain or something. But that was the idea. Erin Fox, back in 2020 she said, "I'm expecting you to announce your online Kent C. Dodds engineering bootcamp." And I replied, "I'm planning on doing this, no joke." So, I've been wanting to do this for a really long time. And so, leaving Remix was like, yeah, this is what I'm going to go do. I'm going to go build KCD EDU. And I was talking with Ryan at some point about, like, what I was planning on doing in the future. And something he said or something I said in that conversation made me realize, oh, shoot, I want to build Epic Web Dev. So, I've got Epic React. I don't want Epic Remix. I want people to, like, be web developers. Remix is just, like, an implementation detail. And so, I went and I was relieved to find that the domain was still available: epicweb.dev, and so I bought that. And so, I was always planning on, like, even while I was at Remix, eventually, I would leave Remix and go build Epic Web Dev. So, that's what I did. Starting in August, I decided, okay, how about this: I will build a legit real-world web application, and then I will use that to teach people how to build legit real-world web applications from start to finish. If it's included as, like, knowledge you would need to build this web app, then that's knowledge you need to be able to build a full-stack application. That was the idea. So, I started live streaming in, like, August or September, and I would live stream almost everyday development of this web app. So, people can go and watch those on my YouTube channel. I would livestream for, like, sometimes six hours at a time with breaks every 45 minutes. So, I'd just put it on a break slide, go for a quick walk, or take a drink, whatever, and then I would come back. And I would just, like, so much development and live streaming for a long time. Once I got, like, in a pretty good place with that, the app I was building was called Rocket Rental. It's like Airbnb for rocket ships. So, you could rent, like, your own rocket ship to other people to fly. So, it had to be, like, realistic enough that, like, you could relate it to whatever you were building but not realistic enough that people would actually think it was a real product [laughs]. I worked with Egghead again. They actually have a sister company now called Skill Recordings that's responsible for these types of products. And so, I was working with Skill Recordings on, like, they would get me designs. And then I would, like, work with other people to help implement some of those designs. And then, I started working on turning this stuff into workshops. And with Epic React, we have this workshop app that you run locally so that you can work in your own editor, in your own environment, and with your own editor plugins and all that stuff. I want you to practice the way that you're going to actually exercise that practice when you're done––when you're working at work. And so we have this workshop app with Epic React. Well, that was built with Create React app, very limited on what you could do. And so, I started working on a new workshop app that I just called KCD Shop, that was built with Remix. And so, now we've got a bunch of server-side stuff we can do. And this server side is running on your machine. And so, so much stuff that I can do with this thing. One of the big challenges with Epic React was that the video you watch is on epicreact.dev, but the exercises you run are on localhost. And so, you have to keep those things in sync. You'd see, okay, I'm in exercise one on the videos. Let me go find exercise one in the app and then find the file exercise one. So, you've got, like, three different things you've got to keep in sync. And so, with the workshop app for Epic Web, I said, how about we make it so that we can embed the video into the app? And so, you just have localhost running, and you see the video right above the instructions for the exercise. And so, you watch the video that kind of introduces the problem that you're going to be doing, and then you read the instructions. And then we can also make it so that we have links you can click or buttons you can click in the app that will open your editor exactly where you're supposed to go. So you don't have to keep anything in sync. You go to the app, and you watch the video. You read the instructions. You click this button. It opens your editor. And so, that's exactly what I did. And it's an amazing experience. It is phenomenal, not just for the workshop learners but for me, as a workshop developer, like, creating the workshop––it's just been phenomenal. Because, like, we also have this diff view where you can see the difference between your work in progress and the solution. So, if you get stuck, then it's very easy to see where you went wrong. It also means that we can build even very large applications as part of our workshop and our exercise where there are dozens or hundreds of files. And you don't have to worry about finding them because it'll tell you exactly which ones you need to be working in, so all sorts of really, really cool things. So, this workshop app––actually, took a lot of time and effort to build. But now that it's done, like, people are going through it now, and they're just loving it. So, I built the workshop app, I put the first workshop of Rocket Rental into this workshop app, and I delivered it. And I found out very quickly that a full application with all the bells and whistles you'd expect, like, tons of different routes and stuff, was just too much. Even with the workshop app, it was just really pretty difficult for people to gain enough context around what they were building to be effective. So, I was concerned about that. But then, around the same time, I started realizing that I had a marketing problem. And that is that with Testing JavaScript, people know that they're customers because they're like, I'm a JavaScript developer, and I know how to test––boom. I'm a Testing JavaScript customer. With Epic React, I join this company; they're using React; I need to know React, boom. I'm a customer of Epic React. But with something like Epic Web, it's just so broad that, like, yeah, I am a web developer. I just don't know if I'm a customer to Epic Web. Like, is Epic Web for only really advanced people, or is it only for really beginner people? Or is it only for people who are using this set of tools or... Like, it's just a very difficult thing to, like, identify with. And so I wanted to de-emphasize the fact that we used Remix because the fact is that you can walk away from this material and work in a Next.js app or a SvelteKit app and still use so much of the knowledge that you gained in that environment. So, I didn't want to focus on the fact that we're using any particular set of tools because the tools themselves I select them, not only because I think that they are really great tools but also because the knowledge you gain from these tools is very transferable. And I'm going to teach it in a way that's very transferable. That was the plan. But I still had this issue, like, I need people to be able to identify themselves as customers of this thing. So, what I decided to do through some, like, hints and inspiration from other people was how about I turn Rocket Rental into a much simpler app and make that a project starter? And while I was at Remix, actually, I directed the creation of this feature called Remix Stacks. It's basically the CLI allows you to create a Remix app based on a template. I said I can make a Remix Stack out of this, and I called it the Epic Stack. And so, just took all of the concepts that came from Rocket Rental; applied it to a much simpler app. It's just a note-taking app, but it has, like, all of the features that you would need to build in a typical application. So, it's got a database. It's got deployment, GitHub integration. So, you have GitHub Actions to run tests and stuff. It has the tests. It has authentication already implemented, and even two-factor auth, and third-party auth, and file upload, and, like, just tons and tons of stuff built in. And so, people can start a new project and ship that and have a lot of success, like, skip all the basic stuff. So, I presented that at Remix Conf. I wasn't working at Remix anymore, but they asked me to run Remix Conf again, so I did. And I told them, "If I'm running it this year, I'm going to select myself to speak." And I spoke and introduced the Epic Stack there. And then that was when I started to create the workshops based on the Epic Stack. And so, now it was no longer we're going to have workshops to build Rocket Rental; it was we're going to have workshops to build the Epic Stack, with the idea being that if you build the thing, you are able to use it better, like, still following the same pattern I did with Testing JavaScript where we build a framework first. Like, before you start using Jest, we're building Jest and same with Testing Library. We do the same thing with React. Before we bring in React, I teach you how to create DOM nodes yourself and render those to the page and all of that. And so, here with Epic Web, I'm going to teach you how to build the framework that you can use to build applications. So, that is what Epic Web is, it's effectively we're building the Epic Stack. In the process, you learn all about really basic things, like, how do you get styles onto the page all the way to really complex things like, how do you validate a user's email? Or how do you implement two-factor auth? Or how do you create a test database? So, you don't have to mock out the database, but you can still run your test in isolation. Around this time was when my wife and I were trying to become pregnant. And we got the news that we were expecting, and we were super excited. And so, I'm thinking, okay, I've got to ship this thing before the baby comes. Because who knows what happens after this baby comes? So, I am talking with Skill Recordings. I'm saying, "We've got to get this done by October." I think it was May. And so, I was thinking like, okay, I've probably got, like, maybe eight days worth of workshops here. And so, kind of outlined all of the workshops. Like, I know what needs to be included. I know what the end looks like because I've got the Epic Stack. The end is the Epic Stack. The beginning is, like, a brand new create Remix app creation right there. So, I know what the start and the end looks like. I kind of can figure out how much time I need to teach all of that. And I said, "Let's do eight days." And so, we got that scheduled and started selling tickets. And we sold out 30 tickets in just a couple of days, and that's what we originally planned for. I'm like, well, gosh, I can handle 80 people in a workshop. I've done that before, but that's about as far as I go. I don't really like going that much. In fact, online, especially, I only like to go up to, like, 40. But we said, "Hey, let's knock this out of the park." So, we doubled it, and we sold another 30 seats. And so, it was sold out before even the early bird sale was over. So, that was pretty encouraging. The problem was that I hadn't actually developed this material. I'd already given one workshop about testing with Rocket Rental, and I'd given one workshop about the fundamentals with Rocket Rental. But I hadn't done anything of the authentication or, the forms, or data modeling. Also, like, Epic Notes app is different from Rocket Rental. So, I got to rebuild those workshops. Like, the first workshop was going to start in, like, two weeks, maybe three weeks. And so, I'm working on these workshops. And I'm like, I've finished the first workshop, which was going to be a two-day workshop, and so I get that done. And so, that next week, I'm getting close to finished on the forms workshop, and then I start the workshops. And that was when I started to realize, oh, shoot, I am in huge trouble because I have to not only deliver two workshops a week, so that's two days a week that I'm not able to work on the workshops, really. And then also develop the material as I go, which I don't normally do this at all because I just don't like stressing myself out so much. But, like, I'd had this timeline put together, and I'm like, I need to ship this by October. For about five weeks, I worked 80 to 100 hours a week, maybe more, in a row to get those workshops created [laughs]. And I do not recommend this, and I will never do it again. I can tell you this now. I didn't tell anybody at the time because I was worried that people would think, well, geez, is that the type of product you create, like, you're just rushing through this stuff? But I can tell you this safely now because the results speak for themselves. Like, these people loved this stuff. They ate it up. It was so good. I won't do this again. It's not something that I typically do. But it worked. And, like, I put in a crazy amount of work to make this work. People loved it. And yeah, I'm really, really happy with that. The next step, though, so it was eight days' worth of workshops in four weeks. And I realized, as I almost always realize when I'm presenting workshops, that, like, oh my gosh, I have way more material than I have time for. So, by

Paolo Privitera è un imprenditore seriale, nato a Venezia, fonda la sua prima azienda Internet a 16 anni nel 1994. Dopo la laurea a Ca' Foscari in Informatica, e pur avendo un'azienda attiva in Italia, si trasferisce in USA a caccia di una “corsia di sorpasso”, vive prima a NY, poi a Los Angeles dove fonda la sua prima azienda USA, e poi a San Francisco.    L'ultima azienda di cui è stato CEO e co-fondatore è Evensi, la più grande piattaforma al mondo per la scoperta e promozione di eventi, con oltre 200 milioni di eventi, 60 milioni di utenti, 10 milioni di organizzatori di eventi. La società è stata acquisita da Events.com, ora lavora con l'amministratore delegato per portare la società in borsa al Nasdaq.    Per realizzare le sue imprese, Paolo ha incontrato decine di migliaia di persone e raccolto più di 300 milioni di dollari, costruendosi un network straordinario sia in Italia che in Silicon Valley.    Quello che Paolo è veramente bravo a fare, e su cui lo abbiamo interrogato, è riflettere sui propri errori e trasformarli in lezioni di vita.   In questo percorso Paolo affronterà ogni tipo di difficoltà.  Dovrà anche digerire la perdita di occasioni incredibili, come quando rinuncia a partecipare all'avvio di progetti che diventeranno dei colossi della Silicon Valley, come AirBnb e Trulia. E scopriremo il resto nella nostra chiacchierata.   Paolo, che ora è un maestro assoluto del networking, ci insegna anche con esempi e aneddoti, come costruire un rete di contatti di valore, sfruttando ogni occasione per ampliare la propria community. SOCIAL MEDIA Se vi piace il podcast, il modo migliore per dircelo o per darci un feedback (e quello che ci aiuta di più a farlo diffondere) è semplicemente lasciare una recensione a 5 stelle o un commento su Spotify o l'app di Apple Podcast. Ci ha aiuta davvero tantissimo, quindi non esitate :) Se volete farci delle domande o seguirci, potete farlo qui: Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@madeit.podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@madeitpodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ RINGRAZIAMENTI Vogliamo ringraziare BAIA, la Business Association Italy America, per la loro partnership. BAIA è un'associazione non profit che opera nella San Francisco Bay Area dal 2006 e ci sta aiutando a promuovere questa serie con i loro membri.  BAIA è gestita da un gruppo di professionisti italiani a San Francisco che crea opportunità di networking professionale all'interno della comunità italiana e italo-americana, facilitando lo scambio aperto di conoscenze tra l'Italia e gli Stati Uniti attraverso eventi per manager e imprenditori in Silicon Valley. Più informazioni sul sito ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.baia-network.org/⁠⁠⁠⁠ e se siete in Silicon Valley vi consigliamo anche di iscrivervi alla loro newsletter.

Jim's guest this week on The CMO Podcast is Micky Onvural, the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at TIAA, whose mission is to help people find confidence in retirement. TIAA is an acronym for Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association; it was founded 105 years ago by Andrew Carnegie, to help teachers with their financial security in their retirement. TIAA is now a Fortune 100 financial services organization, with revenue north of $40 billion, serving clients in academic, research, cultural, medical, and governmental fields.Micky is a returning guest on The CMO Podcast–she joined Jim in October 2021 when she was the CEO of Bonobos, the apparel brand owned by Walmart at the time. This is Jim's first guest who was a CMO, became a CEO, and then returned to a CMO role. Micky is a graduate of Cambridge University, where she studied French and Spanish, before beginning a career that took her to L'Oreal, Kellogg's, eBay, Trulia, Bonobos, and now TIAA. Tune in as Jim welcomes a CMO–who was a CEO–and discovered she would rather be a CMO!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Real Estate Ballers Show

Welcome to the Real Estate Ballers Show

Even though a vacancy can be painful for an investor, leasing doesn't have to be the biggest hat a property manager has to wear. Join property management growth expert Jason Hull to talk about the topic of the property management Summer busy season with Tim and Larry from Tenant Turner.  You'll Learn [02:55] When is the right time to automate? [07:52] Why being cheap leads to bad clients [14:34] Staying competitive in the slow season [18:04] The multifamily market oversupply [22:13] Lockboxes and self-showings Tweetables “The most important currency related to growth is not cash, it's focus.” “It's really stupid, in contrast, to hold onto the moldy peanuts in the monkey trap because you don't want to let go and not get your hand out because you just want to be cheap.” “I find that cheap business owners attract cheap clients and they don't grow and scale their businesses.” “Even if you only have, you know, one door, eight doors, 10 doors, any vacancy is painful.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jason: I find that cheap business owners attract cheap clients and they don't grow and scale their businesses. And so if you're listening to this and you're like, "well, I'm being cheap and I'm being frugal, and that's smart." It's not smart when it comes to business, and it's not smart when it comes to growth.  [00:00:17] Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate, think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, along with Sarah Hull, the COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show, and our guests today are Tim Wallace and Larry Hancock of Tenant Turner. Welcome you two.  [00:01:27] Tim: Thanks for having us.  [00:01:28] Larry: Yeah, thanks for having us.  [00:01:29] Jason: So does everybody there have red hair now? Is this the thing? [00:01:32] Tim: We're slowly taking over the world.  [00:01:34] Larry: Like it's just-- gingers unite-- job application requirement. [00:01:37] Jason: That sounds like a really good t-shirt.  [00:01:40] Sarah: I like it. Yeah. "Are you willing to dye your hair?" [00:01:43] Jason: That'd be the strangest thing. Yeah. "It's part of the, it's part of the uniform." All right. Awesome. Well, it's good to have you both and you know, we really appreciate you being a sponsor for our DoorGrow events and doing some cool stuff with us. And Tim, you actually sold Sarah Tenant Turner previously. Oh, Larry did. Larry sold Sarah Tenant Turner. Yeah. You can't have the credit, Tim. Sorry. It's Larry. Larry did this. He closed the deal in Sarah's property management business that she's since sold, but they're still using Tenant Turner.  [00:02:17] Sarah: They do use tenant turner. [00:02:19] Jason: There you go. So awesome. So our topic today is scaling up your leasing process during the busy season, which is right now, right? It's summer, things heat up. And what's interesting, if you do go onto Google Trends, trends.google.com and look at the keyword "property management" and you backdate it for like a decade and you'll see these, it just spikes. It doesn't go up like it's not growing in search volume, but property management spikes every summer and goes down in the winter. And that's probably how leasing works as well in property management. So what, where should we start with scaling up your leasing process during the busy season? [00:02:59] Larry: So what's interesting is it's almost like a catch 22 for our customers. So for folks that aren't using any kind of automation, they're like, "I really need your services, but I'm just too darn busy to even consider it." I'm like, "ah! Why didn't you talk to us just a few months earlier?" And then you got the opposite side where some customers are like, "I'm not busy enough to consider your services." so we're always trying to, you know, have these conversation with these people why automation's beneficial for them. Whether they're in a stage where they're just, you know, drinking from a fire hydrant and they're just trying to just figure things out while they're in the busy leasing season. Or maybe you are using automation and it's just a matter of creating efficiencies. So that way you can continually grow your business. So, typically that's how we'll start our conversation is kind of where are you at right now? Are you kind of just struggling to stay afloat and you need to add some automation into your life, or do you have the automation and it's just creating those efficiencies in your business? [00:03:53] Jason: So how do you help people that say they're not busy enough justify leveraging and getting tenure turner?  [00:04:02] Larry: Yeah. So from there it's really. Trying to get them more in the head space of like, "I understand that for now. But let's figure out how we can create value here." So maybe I'm getting them in a place of, you know, let's build the building blocks. "We're not going to create your account just yet, but in a perfect world, when you are busy and need our services, let's kind of back out what the steps are to get there." Sometimes maybe their portfolio isn't large enough. So then that would be a time when I would recommend to someone like you, Jason, where it's like, "Hey, you need to be a part of a program where you can, you know, grow your portfolio because he's going to help you grow your portfolio and then you're going to need us because you're only one person." so I'll try to get them in that kind of head space. But it's really almost building their tech stack. So while we're an important piece to that whole thing there's other moving parts to the entire system. So that's usually how I start. It's really more playing a consolidative role. [00:04:55] So I'm trying to consult them, figure out where they're at in the process. And if they're not a good fit for us that day, that's okay. Maybe they will be. And then I'm going to set a reminder to reach out before they're busy losing season basically.  [00:05:07] Jason: So where is that kind of cutoff point to where they've achieved, you know, Tenant Turner readiness status? [00:05:17] Larry: So sometimes people will view it from like a portfolio size. I think it's really more about the entrepreneurial mindset. I met some people where they have just one door and they're like, "Hey Larry, I'm going to be a hundred units by the end of the year." I'm like, "that's awesome man. You know, it's great you're kind of trying to build this plane before you're trying to take off," where sometimes I talk to customers, they're like, "Hey, We're flying this plane. The wings are about to fall off. And I just don't know what to do." I'm like, "okay--" [00:05:42] Jason: I'm going to build it in the air. I'm working on it.  [00:05:45] Larry: I know. It's like, "all right, well I appreciate you, you know, diving ahead first, but you're probably really stressed out right now." So, typically in our world, our pricing model, month to month, no contracts. So one to 50 units you're fine. We're going to talk to you. We're not going to be like, "oh you're too small for us, man. Like, I just can't talk to you." We have a great culture in that way. We try to be that partner with them. But typically our general rule of thumb is if you expect to have any vacancy, whether it's one throughout the entire year, you should at least consider us. Even if it's only one month out of the entire year we'll still talk to you.  [00:06:16] Jason: Yeah.  [00:06:17] Sarah: Yeah. And I think something that people don't always realize is even if you're like, I don't need it right now, I'm not ready, I don't have enough. It's going to make it so much easier if you have systems in place already, so that you can scale so that when you scale, you're not now in massive amounts of pain. And even if you only have, you know, one door, eight doors, 10 doors, any vacancy is painful. Yeah, any vacancy is painful and it's going to help you massively, not only just in your time and your effort, but it will make your clients happier. Like when I implemented Tenant Turner, my vacancy rate like took a nosedive. Now, not that I had a high vacancy rate. But like just trying to like market and figure out where to put these things and answering all the messages and doing a gazillion showings for people that might not even qualify. You know, it was taking sometimes like weeks to fill a vacancy. And when I implemented that, it went down dramatically. So clients are much, much happier and you and your staff are going to be much, much happier because now it's a lot less work for you.  [00:07:28] Larry: Yeah and kind of building on that, Sarah, we kind of find our solution is almost like a an aspirin approach. So people are kind of taking that aspirin when they have a headache in the form of vacancy. And there is a time and place to pop the aspirin, but usually what's a lot better is kind of plan ahead of, "oh, I know I could have headaches during this time of the year, so I'm going to be a little bit more you know, I'm going to prepare, I'm going to be more proactive." where I see people have the right mindset in regards to software is usually what they'll do is they'll annualize the cost and then figure out how to generate enough ROI. So if I'm able to save. Five hours per week, you know, and I annual analyze the software in such a way I don't need to worry about it because I've looked at the 12 month period and I know I'm going to get my value that way. It's a little bit harder when you're trying to convince people when they're kind of penny pitching and it's like you're wasting all this time on that part and that time worrying about it, you just wasted where you could be attracting new owners. So the mindset really is kind of analyzing the software, but trying to build the ROI into that. [00:08:31] Sarah: I have to say like I was hesitant for a while because I was like, "well, this is easy and like I have this streamlined process" and really, I said this to you. I was like, "I just don't spend that much time." I had 200 and like some odd units, like 260 I think at my highest. And when I was talking with you, I was like, "you know, I just don't spend that much time doing it. So is there a benefit to it? Yes, but how much time am I really going to save? Because I feel like it's already something that is simple for me." And even though I had this streamlined and I had processes to find and I maybe was spending a couple hours a week doing, you know, messaging and email and confirmations and stuff like that. [00:09:14] I was still spending time doing it. When I implemented Tenant Turner, then I was like, "oh, I don't have anything to do." Like every once in a while I have to just pop in and you have to like manually approve somebody. And then once, like I updated my showing schedule once a week. So once a week I had to go in and update the showing schedule for the upcoming week, which took all of maybe four minutes. And other than that, I was just popping in and kind of like manually approving people. And I was spending, I went from maybe a few hours a week, which I still didn't think was a lot to minutes per week. And I was like, "oh wow. Okay. I see it now. I see it." But sometimes they think you have to experience it to see it. Because I was like, "I just don't know!" And I was really glad that I did it because it really like, it took so much. And sometimes when you make a change like that, then you realize how much work you are actually doing. Because we rationalize, we're like, "it's not that hard. It doesn't take me that long. Like I just send a couple emails," and then when you realize, "oh, I don't have to do any of that anymore." it was like mind blowing to me. I was like, "oh, like this literally takes me like 10 minutes a week and that's it." So all my leasing was done in 10 minutes.  [00:10:33] Jason: I think that's one of my favorite ways to justify an expense is you have to look at the opportunity cost because if you're just looking, you're like, "okay, well it costs me this much money and if I do it myself, then it's free. But your time is the most valuable resource you have in a business-- not free-- and the most important currency related to growth is not cash. It's focus. And if your focus is diluted as a business owner away from what can generate more revenue, then the opportunity cost is huge in two to three hours you could be closing deals that are worth tens of thousands of dollars over that year. So it's really stupid in contrast to like hold onto the moldy peanuts in the monkey trap because you don't want to let go and not get your hand out because you just want to be cheap. [00:11:22] And so I find that cheap business owners attract cheap clients and they don't grow and scale their businesses. And so if you're listening to this and you're like, "well, I'm being cheap and I'm being frugal, and that's smart." It's not smart when it comes to business, and it's not smart when it comes to growth. You need to let go of those moldy peanuts. There's bananas in reach and the farmer's going to come along and chop off your head. And this is why most businesses fail. Most businesses fail in the-- or they get stuck-- first year or the first five years. A lot fail and property management is tough. And I see, I see a lot.  [00:11:55] Sarah: They get, they just get stuck and they're trapped. "I don't have more time. I can't do anything else. Like, I don't know what else I can do in making these little changes." Like I'm going to be honest with you, I like, I bought into the product and I still wasn't like, "ah, I think that's going to be amazing." I was like, "it'll help me." And it helped way more than I thought it was going to help me. I would say this is like 1. Was implementing a property management software and 2. Was implementing tenant Turner. Those are the two things that like made a massive shift in my business for me. [00:12:28] Jason: Nice.  [00:12:29] Sarah: And I almost wish I could have told myself like, "Hey, remember when you had 260 units and you were doing it all yourself? You should have been talking to Tenant Turner.  [00:12:37] Jason: There was some guy that had mentioned these things to you. [00:12:40] Sarah: I know! [00:12:40] Jason: He's pretty smart.  [00:12:41] Tim: I think even if you are in that cheap mindset, like at the end of the day, like vacancy is what's going to cost your owners the most money down the road too. Like one day on the market can cost them anywhere from what, 50 to $200 depending on what they're paying for their mortgage and everything. Like those costs add up and it's as property managers, it's your fiduciary duty to help them recoup that money. And if you're spending too much time on those types of things, even if you're focused on your business and spending time on that, you could still be losing that money by having those extra days on market without this type of system. [00:13:11] Sarah: Absolutely, and I think the conversation that I have with people over and over again is you need to figure out what this particular task is worth in dollars. So if this is like a $10 an hour task, a $20 an hour task, Is it something that you, as a business owner need to be doing? Is your time worth more than 10 or $20 an hour? And if the answer to that question is yes, then you need to not be the one who's doing this.  [00:13:35] Jason: Yeah. If a business owner, and a lot of business owners are the BDM, they are the business development manager. They are the person that's doing sales and generating revenue and growing the business. And if you do not as a business owner, have a full-time BDM. [00:13:49] You have somebody focused on this and it's on your shoulders, then you're a shitty part-time salesperson. You're maybe investing, I find one, maybe two hours a day. That's like 10 hours a week focusing on growing the business. And so everything else other than that should be offloaded that you can everything else. Give up the leasing stuff as much as you can, give up the maintenance stuff as much as you can, like you need to be focused on generating revenue until you can offload that piece and focus. Otherwise, you're not going to grow. And if any business owner is listening to this in property management, if you haven't grown significantly over the last year or two or three, it's because you are doing the wrong things as a business owner in the business. Plain and simple, there's no way around that. So we chatted about justifying it for those that are already, they have lots of doors and they're, you know, how do we deal with making things scalable during the busy season? And then things really for leasing tend to really cool down in the winter months. And so what are you typically seeing with clients that come to you that are maybe at a 200 plus doors or it's obvious that you can serve them. [00:15:02] Tim: I mean, even if you do have 200 doors sure, summertime's going to be the busiest, where generally speaking, you could have anywhere from what, five to 12% vacancy rates and whatnot with turnovers and whatnot. During the wintertime, there still might be one or two that hit every month. And what we're noticing with customers that size is that throughout the year we kind of keep things with that month to month rate really low for everyone. [00:15:24] It's based on portfolio size for us. And so most people are keeping that active because even one listing, like you're saying, if you're working on one listing, spending two or three hours on that one listing, even getting to go back and forth with the messages, the emails and everything like that could still be costing you more than what your monthly rate for subscription might be. So a lot of people do keep us going year round and have the lock boxes and things like that in service for vendors and stuff that might need to come and go for properties as well. So, there's lots of different little solutions that we provide there too that kind of help keep the business flowing smoothly, but generally speaking, we're there when they need us and any spot in the road where if it's crazy or if it's just a little bit, we try to keep the system smooth all year for them.  [00:16:10] Larry: I guess to add to that so typically when things are slow, usually people are saying, "I'm not getting enough leads." really what they mean is they're not getting enough leads from, you know, Zillow, Trulia, the big networks. And when they come to us and say, "Hey, what do I do? What can Tenant Turner provide?" That's usually when I tell them like, "you're really going to hunker down and how are you going to be different than your competition?" and that's also times when like, you know, "let's look at your website. You know, are you being an industry leader in your market?" So maybe they're not going to the Zillows, but when they search, or, you know, what is your web, your presence in your market? Automation's great and you definitely should automate, but then there's also times to be that personalized touch. So when things are slow, what aren't your competitors doing? If they're leaning really heavy where they can't talk to a person at all maybe you should go to what we call the 'take request model,' where we're automating things, we're pre-qualifying, and then we're setting, you know, a couple days and times. But before an appointment's approved, you get to talk to that lead. And really what you're doing, you're leveraging yourself. You introduce yourself, you say why you're great and you're market maybe some key differentiators. And then you schedule an appointment. And you do a couple things. What I like to say is you're doing what's called a vibes test just to make sure both of you are, you know, a good fit, rather to rent the property and that type of stuff. And also you're making sure they have a heartbeat. Making sure, you know, if you're using self-guided tours, it's another security layer to everything. Because at the end of the day, I'm a big fan of it's the, a book called Rework by the guys who created Basecamp. And the whole philosophy is that it's not that in a world where people saying, "I need more of this," whether it's "I need more leads" or "I need more tools," it's more utilizing the tools that you already have more efficiently. So when we look at things like lead flow, maybe it's not necessarily a top of the funnel problem, it's more of a bottom of the funnel conversion problem. And then when you use personalization to a lot of interesting ways, like I mentioned. [00:18:04] Jason: So one of the things that I think is happening a bit throughout the US and I've had some podcast guests touch on this, is that in some markets-- and I've heard some some property managers anecdotally share this with me as well-- they're having a difficulty getting tenants because the inventory as a result of the pandemic just went up, skyrocketed. A lot of people are like, "Hey, let's build, let's create a bunch of investments." Now there's a surplus of inventory and that creates a scarcity of tenants, and so they're having to get a little bit more aggressive. What strategies Have you guys seen, or you know, because you're connected to a lot of people that are doing leasing, how are they becoming more attractive to tenants than their competition? [00:18:48] Tim: You want to start or? So there's a lot of different things out there, like different solutions, whether it's providing something like a benefits package to your residents, things like that really making your listings stand out. If it's better photography, if it's better marketing in general for stuff. But generally speaking, we are kind of seeing that trend as well, where days on market are expanding a little bit. It's kind of a trend that's-- we were kind of in a goldlock zone for the last couple of years with rentals. Like it's been amazing and pre covid it wasn't ever really like that either. Like that we're kind of seeing the ebbs and flows of the market, and that's just natural in real estate. So, we're coming back to the time where people are like, kind of hunkering down and making sure that their properties are as good as they can be to really attract the best tenants for them. So while there might be a few extra days on market, there's a couple things you can do around there. Like Larry's saying, adding those personal touches in there. Setting up notifications so that as soon as someone gets to the property, you can still have that personal touch by making a phone call as soon as you can see they got into the property. Or if maybe some people are doing a few more in-person showings, if that's the case. Generally speaking, that's putting more time on the property as well, which, like we talked about, costs opportunity costs.  [00:20:00] If you got the team to do that, and that's kind of their role as a leasing agent or whatnot, great. They can have that personal touch and then go a little bit further with them. But if you're also focused on self showings having that additional personal touch, some additional marketing on the property or whatnot, I can kind of help draw that process out a little bit sooner. And really with our system, it. We really try to provide as much immediacy as possible. So when someone sees a listing on a site like Zillow, for instance they're clicking request information. We're sending them an email right away that they have the opportunity to come into Tenant Turner and click a link and schedule a tour right away. If they're calling into us, they're not going to a voicemail. They're going to be sitting there waiting three days for someone to respond to. I know that's a trend of the industry. A lot of people have massively filled inbox inboxes that they just can't handle. So tenant leads never hear back from anyone because they kind of pick and choose. We're responding to every single one of those leads as they come in and making sure that immediacy is really driving that engagement.  [00:20:59] So if we keep that engagement up for everyone the goal is that, generally speaking, that alone will really help drive. What's, I think there's a statistic out there? If you respond within five minutes, generally speaking, you're going to get 80% more acceptance in terms of a conversation. Yeah. There's that click or an actual phone call, things like that, like providing that immediacy is a massive, and it goes a long way for impressing tenant leads on the consumer side, but also in, in business. We all know B two B sales and even BDMs like calling their owners. As soon as you see a click on a website, you want to call them. So we want to keep that trend going on our side as well.  [00:21:33] Jason: Yeah, this is the TikTok generation man. They have attention spans of like two minutes, you know, it's like really short. So I love these ideas. So pushing owners to improve the property I think is a great strategy. Increasing your availability and your responsiveness and that immediacy, quick, beat, slow for sure in business. Increasing the ease Tenent Turner helps with. And then making sure that you are able to be super responsive within the first five minutes. So yeah. Love it. All right, cool. What else should we chat about related to scaling up your process during the busy season? Did we miss anything?  [00:22:12] Larry: We got it. I know typically the elephant in the room, so a lot of times, you know, self-guided tours is the golden child of, you know, why you should consider it and how it's helpful, whether it's busy or slow and this, that, and the other. But one of the things that we had is for people that aren't using it and it's like, "I would never consider that or I'm scared to use this or I can never get owner buy-in." And that's kind of always the elephant in the room. I know Tim, you have some very interesting data of, you know, while, you know, like anything in business there are inherent risks, but as business owners every day we are willing to kind of, you know, improve or, you know, try to tackle these risks. And there's usually a pot-- not all the time, but you know, a pot of gold can be waiting for you. So was there any data that you wanted to share, Tim?  [00:22:56] Jason: Before we get into that, let's kill that objection real quick. because I hear this all the time too. So I say, "Hey, maybe you should be using Tenant Turner or something like this," and they say, "well, I don't want to do lock boxes." And my response is, "you don't have to." like, there's a lot of benefits besides that piece. In fact, there's plenty of benefits besides that piece. And so maybe you can address that real quick and then we can talk about is that even really a valid concern or not? And are there markets that are better for lockbox versus others? Some are like, "I can never do that in my market. I'll have squatters all over the place." you know, they're concerned. So let's address that, that elephant in the room.  [00:23:34] Tim: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you guys know your properties best. You're going to know which areas might have a high potential for negativity happening. Whether it's someone coming in and stealing wires, the horror stories of people stealing appliances and stuff like that. At the end of the day, if someone wants to do something bad, A lockbox or a keyless lock isn't necessarily going to stop someone in that scenario, right? We all know areas where people aren't afraid to break a window and get in, steal a refrigerator. Like the fact that a property isn't known to be vacant is a big enough red flag alone that most people that want to do something nefarious will go ahead and do it. But at the same time on our side of things, if we can block as many of those instances as possible with our abilities to kind of keep track of known scammers and squatters and things like that. We've got some stuff built into our system, but really at the end of the day, if someone wants to do something bad, it's going to happen. But generally speaking, most people that are doing showings, that type of scenario, if you're, you know, your area, if you're doing your own kind of awareness inspections periodically and you're on top of the property yourself, we barely hear of any instances of negativity happening with those scenarios. Like self showings, we can come up with the horror stories, but at the end of the day, in our experience, they are really few and far between and we're not having major issues, at least more than what you would on average. See, with any property that's being marketed, it's vacant. Like that's, it's going to happen.  [00:24:56] Jason: And there's some serious advantages because, I would imagine the best defense, period, against all of those type of problems is just getting it leased out as quick as possible. Yep. It's decreasing vacancy, and so if a lockbox can help them get into it right away, get a showing right away, whatever, decreasing the vacancy time is probably your best, you know, defense.  [00:25:18] Sarah: Yeah. The other thing I'll add to this too, is if there are people who are kind of scoping out the property and they notice, hey, like every Tuesday at six o'clock people come and then that's it. They're not going to come at Tuesday at six o'clock. They're going to come at other times. Yeah. So if we do have a lockbox on it, and now we don't really know, like when people are going to come because they're coming whenever is like convenient for them. So it might be earlier in the morning or in the afternoon or late at night. We don't know for sure. There's not so much predictability in the schedule. So I think that's something that would help as well is if there's someone who's " Hey, that house over there is vacant. Let's like check that out." But they consistently see people in and out of it, that is a little bit of a deterrent as well, because you never know, like, "Hey, if I go over there because I want to steal that refrigerator, am I walking into someone who's already there? [00:26:14] Jason: Now you can not have a big old sign on the property out front that says, "Hey, this is vacant right now. Do you want to see this?" You know, but you can still market it online without like giving out the address until they're ready to do a showing probably.  [00:26:29] Larry: Yeah, so there's some kind of tips and tricks that we've found. So one thing is not advertising it as a self-guided tour. If you're going to use verbiage in the marketing description, use contactless showing. Because that could mean virtual tours, it could mean other things. But really for us, I like to describe ourselves as a closed loop system. because usually leads are only interacting with our platform if they find out through your website or through a syndication site. So it makes it much more harder to shop for homes because they really don't know, you know, but if they inquire, then that's when the automation will engage. Some interesting things, you know, kind of like Sarah said, one thing deterrent is they see activity, but you know, we find that a lead isn't going to put a government Id answer some questions and go through this process. Why would they do that when they could just go to the front door? You could go to YouTube and learn how to pick a lock and under five minutes, and then no one's going to know I'm on the radar. It's so much easier to do that. Especially in the age of TikTok. I'm sure there's a TikTok, within two minutes or less you'll learn how to pick a lock or pop open a lockbox or something like that too. [00:27:34] Sarah: Or break a window.  [00:27:35] Larry: Or break a window.  [00:27:37] Jason: Yeah, it's a little bit quicker probably. All right, cool. So, how can people get in touch with Tenant Turner and reach out to you guys?  [00:27:48] Larry: Yeah, so obviously if they want to learn a little bit about our services, tenantturner.com. My name's Larry, larry@tenantturner.com. Feel free to email me directly. I kind of deem myself as a software nerd so you know, any questions about whether you use this or not, that's fine. You know, I'm always happy to share tips and tricks of how to automate your process, so that's kind of how you learn some more.  [00:28:12] Tim: So Larry's on the sales side of things for tenant Turner. I'm on the marketing side too, so if you ever need any additional materials or data and statistics around the self showings, if you want to help market to your owners and whatnot, if you've already signed up with Tenant Turner, happy to kind of jump on that side of things. You can email me at tim@tenantturner.com. [00:28:26] Jason: Awesome. I'm sure that's a big part of it is really if they understand how to sell it to their clients, then that's probably the biggest hurdle. Is just being able to confidently say, here's why this is a good idea and how it's going to benefit you and to sell them on it. So, awesome. Well it's been great having you both here on the show. We appreciate Tenant Turner. We get great feedback on tenant Turner from our clients, so we've always felt very confident pushing our clients towards you as one part of their growth strategy and and I hope you guys have an awesome week.  [00:28:59] Larry: Thanks. You as well. We appreciate you guys and thanks for including us. [00:29:02] Jason: All right. So if you are a property management entrepreneur that is wanting to grow your business, reach out to Tenant Turner and make sure you reach out to DoorGrow. We are really good at helping our clients scale if you feel like you need more doors to be able to afford Tenant Turner or to be able to justify tenant Turner. We're really good at helping people do that. Anything else we should add? I don't think so. Let's tell them to join our Facebook group. Join our Facebook group.  [00:29:28] There you go. DoorGrow club.com. Join our Facebook group community. We have some free stuff in there. Until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.  [00:29:37] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:30:04] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Irit Epelbaum has managed product teams for more than a decade. From San Francisco to São Paulo, she's worked in companies like Trulia, Peixe Urbano, and VivaReal. Now, Irit makes use of that experience to coach founders on the best practices of product management. She's both the product operating partner at Atlantico and an independent product management coach.In this episode, Irit and I talk about:- The best practices on product management for startups before they reach product-market fit;- When to hire a product manager and how to structure the product team;- How AI is going to affect product management, and why your product might not be working as well as you expected.My name's Brian Requarth and this is the Latitud Podcast. Vamos, LatAm!Building good sh*t in Latin America?Find out how to pen your startup the right wayRequest early access to the Meridian international business account Or simply sign up for our newsletter for more content on navigating the LatAm startup ecosystem.Follow us on Linkedin / Twitter / Instagram / Spotify.

Matt Holder is the founder of Loop, a tee time engine that helps golfers book the best tee times at their favorite local courses. In this episode, we discuss Matt's experiences in the world of technology, and how those experiences prepared him to launch this new marketplace.Topics include:Matt's golf origin storyMatt's relationship to golf todayWhy Matt pursued a BA in EconomicsWorking for Trulia, Zillow, Houzz and CargurusPredictions for the future of golf and technologyWhether or not technology will make us better golfersTaking an idea from vision to realityResponding to user feedbackChallenges to building a tee time marketplaceHow Loop is monetizedWe finished the episode with a 10 question lightning round that included a few questions about Matt's rec league softball team.Would Matt rather be known for base hits or home runs? You'll have to listen in to find out.This episode is presented by Chasing Aces and Par 3 Near Me.

Follow Jimmy:TwitterSubstackInstagramYouTubeJimmy's Jobs WebsiteJoining the show today is Pete Flint, a serial entrepreneur and general partner at NFX, as he shares his journey from founding lastminute.com to co-founding Trulia, both billion-dollar companies. Discover what sets NFX apart in the world of venture capital and how they focus on network effect businesses. Learn from Pete's experiences during challenging times, such as 9/11 and the 2008 crash, and how resilience plays a crucial role in entrepreneurship. Pete also discusses how to 10x your career by choosing the right sectors and managers. Subscribe so you don't miss any new episodes, releasing every Wednesday.You can sign up to Jimmy's Substack here for weekly content on the future of work, technology, and politicsFor more information on partnering with us please visit our partnerships page here.Also make sure you subscribe to The Shift, you can find it here on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts.

In this episode of the Top of Mind podcast, Mike Simonsen sits down with Selma Hepp, Chief Economist at CoreLogic, to get her take on what's happening in the housing economy. Selma shares her views on inflation vs. recession risk, talks about how climate change and geopolitical dynamics are impacting the housing market, and looks at which drivers will finally help increase inventory for home buyers. She also highlights what surprised her about the economy in 2022, and what to watch for this year. About Selma Hepp Selma Hepp is the Chief Economist for CoreLogic, America's largest provider of advanced property and ownership information, analytics and data-enabled services. Selma leads the economics team, which is responsible for analyzing, interpreting and forecasting housing and economic trends in real estate, mortgage and insurance. Prior to joining CoreLogic in 2020, Selma was Chief Economist and Vice President of Business Intelligence for Pacific Union International, later acquired by Compass, where she oversaw the vital economic and technology intelligence to drive the expanding brokerage's success. Selma also held the role of Chief Economist for Trulia; Senior Economist for the California Association of Realtors; and Economist and Manager for Public Policy and Homeownership research for the National Association of Realtors, as well as a special research assistant at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Selma frequently appears on local and national radio and television programs and has been widely quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times and many industry trade publications such as National Mortgage News and HousingWire. Selma received the HousingWire Women of Influence Award in 2022. She has served as president of the Los Angeles chapter of the National Association for Business Economics (NABE), NABE Real Estate Roundtable co-chair, Board member of the International Student Exchange Program, Advisory Board member of the REALTOR® University Research Center Editorial Review and a Member of the Housing Policy Debate Editorial Advisory Board. Selma held a Real Estate Associate professional license in Florida and Virginia. Selma graduated from the State University of New York, Buffalo with an M.A. in Economics and holds a Ph.D. from the University of Maryland. Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn:  Why inflation is a bigger risk to the housing market than recession is What's happening with first-time homebuyers Why the Ukraine war creates risk in the US housing market Climate change and CoreLogic's new climate risk platform Which drivers will finally help increase inventory for home buyers How small investors increasing market share over big institutional money Whether vacant offices can be converted into affordable housing? Featuring Mike Simonsen, President of Altos Research A true data geek, Mike founded Altos Research in 2006 to bring data and insight on the U.S. housing market to those who need it most. The company now serves the largest Wall Street investment firms, banks, and tens of thousands of real estate professionals around the country. Mike's insights on the market have been featured in Forbes, New York Times, Bloomberg, Dallas Morning News, Seattle PI, and many other national media outlets. Resources mentioned in this episode: Selma Hepp on LinkedIn Selma Hepp on Twitter CoreLogic CoreLogic Office of the Chief Economist Mike Simonsen on LinkedIn Altos Research Follow us on Twitter for more data analysis and insights: https://twitter.com/altosresearch https://twitter.com/mikesimonsen See you next week!

Spencer speaks with Sami Inkinen, the CEO and Founder of Virta Health. After winning the Ironman 70.3 World Championships in 2011, the triathlete found out that he was pre-diabetic that same year. Unsatisfied with the conventional wisdom of “exercise more and eat less,” Sami dug into the science of type 2 diabetes, by consulting experts on the science of carbohydrate restriction and metabolic health. Seeking to raise awareness about the dangers of sugar, Inkinen and his wife rowed across the Pacific Ocean for 45 days—completely unsupported—from California to Hawaii for 2,750 miles. While on that journey, the idea for Virta was born. His personal mantra on that trip was "Use Sisu, not Sugar"—with the Finnish concept of Stoicism, tenacity, and grit, as determination to help himself and others reverse their diagnoses.  Virta is an app-based, health technology start-up that offers treatment to reverse type 2 diabetes without surgery, allowing patients to work with medical providers and health coaches on a nearly real-time basis. Virta's approach helps patients get off of all diabetes-specific medications while achieving sub-diabetic HbA1c (blood sugar)—in 60% of patients who complete one-year of the Virta Treatment. Of those patients prescribed insulin, 94% reduce or fully-eliminate usage.  Previously, Inkinen was the co-founder of real estate marketplace Trulia, serving as its COO and president and board member until its IPO and sale to Zillow Group. Sami is also an active angel investor in healthcare. Inkinen started his career as a radiochemist at a nuclear power plant. He holds a Master of Science in engineering physics from the Helsinki University of Technology, and a Master of Business Administration from Stanford University. 

How exactly do you run a successful design vision program? Our guest today is Nick Myers, VP of Design and Research at Patreon. You'll learn what a design vision program is, its components, why it's applicable to any company size, and more.Podcast feed: subscribe to https://feeds.simplecast.com/4MvgQ73R in your favorite podcast app, and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Podcasts.Show NotesPatreon – Nick's current place of workCooper, Fitbit, Trulia, Facebook – Nick's previous places of workJack Conte – CEO and co-founder of PatreonDesign Sprint, Design Thinking – popular methodsConnect with Nick on LinkedInThis show is brought to you by Userlist — an email automation platform for SaaS companies. Onboard, engage, and nurture your customers, as well as marketing leads. To follow the best practices, download our free printable email planning worksheets at userlist.com/worksheets.Interested in sponsoring an episode? Learn more here.Leave a ReviewReviews are hugely important because they help new people discover this podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave a review on iTunes. Here's how.

These are case studies and stories that outline network effects in the wild - it is a montage of how big tech companies like Trulia, Meta, Uber, and even Bitcoin navigate their defensibility over time. For the best experience of this episode, watch our case studies at nfx.com/masterclass or by searching on YouTube to get the visual side of these deep dives. That was episode 6 of 11, from the Network effects masterclass. Stay tuned and subscribe as next up is Ep. 7 - Network Problems Demand Network Solutions, here on the NFX podcast. This is an audio version of episode 6 from The Network Effects Masterclass, curated for audio and listening on the go. For the full video experience, transcripts, and recommended reading, join the free Network Effects Masterclass at - NFX.com/masterclass.

Spencer Rascoff is the co-found and former CEO of Zillow Group where he oversaw the company's portfolio of real estate and home-related brands, including Zillow, Trulia, StreetEasy, HotPads and Naked Apartments. Spencer is the co-author of the New York Times' bestselling book Zillow Talk: Rewriting the Rules of Real Estate. Spencer is also the host of “Office Hours,” a monthly podcast featuring candid conversations between prominent executives on leadership and management topics.

Riot Games CMO Jason Bunge knows you might roll your eyes when he says this, but he doesn't care, because it's the truth: Marketing doesn't get enough respect. Although many companies have convinced themselves that they don't need a traditional marketing division, they're very wrong. “If you care about your brand [and] you care about your customer,” he says, “you need great marketing. And you need actually great marketers to tell you what that is.”In this episode, Jason and Joubin discuss learning to be confident, why Jason left EA for Riot Games mid-pandemic, what he got out of business school, the stability of working at a big company like Microsoft, the best video game console, League of Legends vs. soccer, producing live eSports events, the craft of marketing and the brands that really “get it,” the crypto messaging problem, the Marvel playbook, and self-determination theory. In this episode, we cover: Jason's childhood as a “military brat” and a “chameleon” (02:07) Taking risks and accepting change as an inevitability (06:35) Two big lessons he learned at Saatchi & Saatchi (11:56) Two risks that didn't pan out: Working at Skype and Trulia (17:00) Riot Games' founding and its expansion into eSports and TV (23:30) The global gaming audience and the power of live events (26:54) Why passion is more important than growing the audience (32:31) Being owned by Tencent and giving equity back to workers (37:28) How Jason has defined — and defended — his role as Riot's first CMO (40:10) Web3 and NFTs in gaming, and the problem with the metaverse (46:48) Phones, PCs, and the form factor of gaming (53:35) The Netflix series Arcane and expanding the stories of League of Legends characters (56:38) Links: Connect with JasonLinkedIn Connect with Joubin Twitter LinkedIn Email: grit@kleinerperkins.com  Learn more about Kleiner Perkins

Keith Wasserman is a bona fide real estate mogul. He runs a billion dollar real estate portfolio for Gelt, and is a serial entrepreneur. We asked Keith a number of questions about the current real estate environment - and we ultimately ask whether real estate will ever be affordable again. If you are in the market for a single family home in the Bay Area, or any other city for that matter, you won't want to miss this episode. We dig into Keith's beginnings in Fresno, where he purchased his first unit. And how things have changed since then both in California and the broader real estate market. We ask Keith about California politics and how they've affected real estate here. And whether San Francisco real estate is a good investment.We talk about Miami, Austin and other trendy areas of the country - and whether they are going to continue on a tear, or cool down at all in the future. Keith talks about tech and companies he's interested in following/investing in. And we ask Keith about his favorite social media follows.Ultimately, if you care at all about the real estate market, this episode is for you. Keith's a real estate OG and knows what he's talking about - we hope you enjoy!