Australia in the World

With four episodes on tariffs this month, the podcast has already broken its monthly episode record. Nevertheless, news is also happening elsewhere, and for the past few months a number of interesting stories emerged in Southeast Asia. Then, given that Southeast Asian economies are some of the most directly affected by Trump's tariff policies, the need for a conversation centred on Southeast Asia only increased, starting with how the US is perceived and the assessments being made regarding the region's strategic trajectory. To discuss all this and more, Aaron Connolly returns to the podcast. Aaron is Asia Diplomatic Editor and Singapore Bureau Chief at The Economist, having joined the newspaper from the International Institute of Strategic Studies where he was working the last time he appeared on the podcast. Aaron offers both a big picture strategic landscape of the region, and broad and deep knowledge of details, both political and economic. In addition to Trump and tariffs, Darren and Aaron discuss Indonesia's recent military reforms and other policies of the Prabowo administration, Thailand's deportation of Uighurs to China, and the arrest of former Philippines president Duterte. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Aaron Connelly (bio): https://mediadirectory.economist.com/people/aaron-connelly/ The Economist, “Prabowo Subianto takes a chainsaw to Indonesia's budget”, 27 February 2025: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2025/02/27/prabowo-subianto-takes-a-chainsaw-to-indonesias-budget Scam Inc (podcast), The Economist: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc Money Talks (podcast), The Economist: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/money-talks Odd Lots (podcast), “What a us stove maker thinks about tariffs” 14 April 2025: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2025-04-14/odd-lots-what-a-us-stove-maker-thinks-about-tariffs-podcast

The Trump administration has announced exemptions to the massive reciprocal tariffs on China for smartphones, computers and other electronics. In his latest rapid reaction podcast, Darren assesses the exemptions and comments on the the larger tariff picture, barely 10 days after "Liberation Day".  Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Tanner Greer, "Obscurity by design: Competing priorities for America's China Policy", Foreign Policy Research Institute, March 2025: https://www.fpri.org/article/2025/03/obscurity-by-design/ Adam Tooze, Chartbook 374: As Trump triggers "sell America", will the result be "stage 4", the politicization of financial markets?, 12 April 2025: https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-374-as-trump-triggers-sell 

President Trump has paused the so-called 'reciprocal' element of his tariffs for everyone but China, meaning a baseline rate of 10% is in place, while PRC imports face tariffs of over 100%. In this episode, Darren offers some initial reactions to this breaking news. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Jay Cost (tweet): https://x.com/Jay__Cost/status/1910099320768209058 Mr Beast (tweet): https://x.com/MrBeast/status/1909621956258775458 Brad Setser (tweet): https://x.com/Brad_Setser/status/1909309353393635551  Jesse Singal (tweet): https://x.com/jessesingal/status/1910039965536559350?s=46  James Palmer (BlueSky): https://bsky.app/profile/beijingpalmer.bsky.social/post/3lme7pnzzw22v Stephen Walt (BlueSky): https://bsky.app/profile/stephenwalt.bsky.social/post/3lmga2xyhuk2d    

Last episode having offered his rapid reactions in the hours after President Trump's tariff announcement, on Friday 4 April Darren was joined by Dr. Huw Mackay to talk through the economics and financial market angles, a full day after the tariff announcement. How did markets react and what might that tell us about the days and weeks ahead? How will companies be thinking about these events, and what advice would Huw offer to governments around the world on how they ought to manage this policy challenge? Huw, a former Chief Economist at BHP, offers a vital perspective from the private sector on big questions not just of economics but of geopolitics and foreign policy. Fair warning: the first part of the discussion is extremely wonky, but nevertheless essential, because understanding the potential macroeconomic impacts of these tariffs is a precondition for analysing their impact on geopolitics and the international economic order. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Huw McKay (LinkedIn): https://au.linkedin.com/in/huw-mckay-6ab582ab Huw McKay, “How the West can shore up its strategic metals supply chain”, Lowy Interpreter, 28 Feb 2025: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/how-west-can-shore-its-strategic-metals-supply-chain William Dalrymple, The Golden Road (2024): https://williamdalrymple.com/books/the-golden-road Jordan Schneider, China Talk (podcast): https://www.chinatalk.media/p/podcast-corruption-spies-tiananmen

President Trump's "Liberation Day" has come and gone, and hours after the momentous announcement of tariffs being imposed on basically the entire world, Darren shares his initial reactions. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Oren Cass, "The One Word that Explains Globalization's Failure, and Trump's Response", Understanind America, 25 February 2025: https://www.understandingamerica.co/p/the-one-word-that-explains-globalizations 

It's time to return to the news, and Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC returns to discuss three big stories that he's been reporting on in recent weeks. First, what is the impact of Donald Trump on the foreign policy community in Australia? How is the government managing the tariffs and numerous other controversies, and will this become an election issue? Is there ballast developing around a “plan B”? Second, a group of People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) warships circumnavigated Australia in February, causing quite a stir. And third, New Zealand and Cook Islands have been a tense relationship in recent months with the latter's relationship with Beijing central to the dispute. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, “What the Trump and Zelenskyy fallout means for Australian foreign policy”, ABC, 4 March 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-04/trump-zelenskyy-fallout-repercussions-australian-foreign-policy/105004636 Stephen Dziedzic, “Tariffs could be turning point in Albanese's 'no comment' strategy on Trump”, ABC, 12 March 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-12/tariffs-turning-point-albanese-response-trump/105043594 Andrew Greene and Stephen Dziedzic, “Intelligence chief says Chinese warship deployment designed to be 'provocative'”, ABC, 26 February 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-26/chinese-warship-deployment-designed-to-be-provocative/104982224 Jennifer Parker, “China's expedition shows Australia must become a naval power”, Australian Financial Review, 23 February 2025: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/china-s-expedition-shows-australia-must-become-a-naval-power-20250222-p5le9k Lim, D. J., & Colnaghi, W. B. (2024). "Strategically (in)secure and economically (in)vulnerable: Australia, New Zealand, and their relations with China". Australian Journal of International Affairs, 78(5), 600–613. https://doi.org/10.1080/10357718.2024.2406279 Stephen Dziedzic, and Kyle Evans “How passports and a deal with China have put New Zealand at odds with its former colony Cook Islands”, ABC, 8 February 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-08/cook-islands-new-zealand-relations-china-passports/104909718 The Last Dance (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80203144 Lady Gaga, Mayhem (album): https://open.spotify.com/album/2MHUaRi9OCyTN02SoyRRBJ

While the calling of a federal election has been delayed by Tropical Cyclone Alfred, it must still happen in May, and so this episode the podcast offers its third “incoming government brief”: a document presented to the new (or returning) minister for each department, for the purpose of providing a descriptive overview of what the department does, and highlighting the most important issues facing that particular portfolio. The Australia in the World Incoming Government Brief has four chapters:(1) A changed external environment, (2) Plausible futures and policy dilemmas, (3) Key commitments by political party, and (4) Miscellaneous. Above all, the central challenge for this document at this moment is simply how to describe the world Australia now finds itself in, and to frame the challenges the government will face, regardless of its partisan perspective. No wonder this is probably the longest episode in the podcast's history! Darren is joined by Richard Maude, who has appeared multiple times before, most recently in February 2024. Richard had a long career in government including serving as Director-General of the (then) Office of National Assessments, and Deputy Secretary in DFAT where, amongst other roles, he headed the whole-of-government taskforce supporting the preparation of the 2017 Foreign Policy White Paper. He was the inaugural Executive Director, Policy, the Asia Society Australia and is now a distinguished policy fellow at there. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Richard Maude (bio): https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/richard-maude Incoming government brief for Senator the Hon Penny Wong, Minister for Foreign Affairs, May 2022: https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/dfat-foi-lex5624.pdf Penny Wong, “National Press Club Address, Australian interests in a regional balance of power”, 17 April 2023: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/speech/national-press-club-address-australian-interests-regional-balance-power Richard Maude, “Australia's Indo-Pacific destiny up for grabs in a new world order”, Australian Financial Review, 11 March 2025: https://www.afr.com/world/asia/australia-s-indo-pacific-destiny-up-for-grabs-in-a-new-world-order-20250304-p5lgru Anna Del Conte, Gastronomy of Italy [Revised Edition], 2013: https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9781862059580/gastronomy-of-italy-revised-edition/ Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy (tv series): https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/tv-series/stanley-tucci-searching-for-italy Black Doves (tv series): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81682935

One of the major casualties of Trump administration's brazen efforts to reduce the size of the US federal government is its dismantling of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), including a wholesale funding freeze, shutting down the website, and recalling most staff from abroad. The impacts on the world are going to be severe and lasting, but there are many questions and uncertainties: what will be the short-term harm, how will the development sector survive in the medium term, and what will US development policy, and indeed development policy generally, look like over the longer term? To discuss these issues Darren is once again joined by Bridi Rice, CEO of the Development Intelligence Lab in Canberra to talk through possible futures, what a “MAGA-friendly” development policy might look like, and whether development is simply the latest policy domain to see a convergence between the Trump worldview and that of China. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Bridi Rice (bio): https://www.devintelligencelab.com/team/bridi-rice Hilltop Hoods (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/7dlqUnjoF2U2DkNDMhcgG4 Security Economics (podcast): https://open.spotify.com/show/1jdlbmzM5do3ijANi6NH0w (Spotify)

“The loneliness of Australia is going to be one of many fairly dramatic changes”, says David Rennie towards the end of this utterly absorbing episode. On Wednesday 12 February I interviewed David Rennie in DFAT's studio in Canberra. David was visiting Australia for the week, hosted by Asia Society Australia and supported by the National Foundation for Australia-China Relations. David is geopolitics editor at The Economist having recently returned to London after six years living in China as Beijing bureau chief. He launched the Chaguan column on China in that role and last November launched a new column on geopolitics for the newspaper, The Telegram. David joined The Economist in 2007 and in addition to London and Beijing has been based in Brussels and Washington in that time. He is the co-host of the excellent Drum Tower podcast, launched in late 2022. Our discussion is not about Australia at all, really, but about China and the US under Donald Trump. Rival great powers, but perhaps with an increasingly converging worldview which portends, according to David, loneliness for Australia. This is one of the podcast's most important episodes of the past few years and I think worth the time for all those interested in international affairs. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links David Rennie (bio): https://mediadirectory.economist.com/people/david-rennie/ The Economist, The Telegram (column): https://www.economist.com/topics/the-telegram The Economist, Drum Tower (podcast): https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/drum-tower Peter Varghese, “Trump's Gaza grab shows America is no better than China”, Australian Financial Review, 6 February 2025: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/trump-s-gaza-grab-shows-america-is-no-better-than-china-20250206-p5la0x Chappell Roan (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/7GlBOeep6PqTfFi59PTUUN   Bobby Timmons Trio (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/47jpbb07933jSiHmir7yda

The Trump administration has announced 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico and a 10% tariff on China. Recorded only a handful of hours after the news broke, Darren offers a rapid reaction as a mini ‘lecture' with his initial thoughts. (Apologies for the change in sound quality early on, which reflect the speed at which we were trying to get this out!) Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

We're still only days into Donald Trump's second term, but there is already a wealth of data to draw upon to update our models and expectations for how to think about his impact on the United States, US foreign policy, and the world. Joining Darren to talk through these early days is frequent guest Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute.   Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Euan Graham, “The Quad foreign ministers joint statement: short and sweet”, ASPI Strategist, 22 Jan 2025: https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-quad-foreign-ministers-joint-statement-short-and-sweet/ Yuval Levin, Trump Redux Begins, National Review, 21 Jan 2025: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/trump-redux-begins/ Ezra Klein Show, “MAGA's big tech divide” (interview with James Pogue), 28 Jan 2025: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/28/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-james-pogue.html James Pogue, “Steve Bannon Has Called His “Army” to Do Battle—No Matter Who Wins in November”, Vanity Fair, 9 Oct 2024: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/steve-bannon-nato-world-order James Pogue, “How Long Can the Alliance Between Tech Titans and the MAGA Faithful Last?”, New York Times, 18 Jan 2025: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/opinion/donald-trump-tech-musk-bannon.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rE4.j9zE.VS5n0pOxgHg_&smid=url-share

On the eve of Donald Trump's second inauguration, one of the podcast's editors, Corbin Duncan, interviews Darren in a “ask me anything” format, asking both his own questions and those submitted by friends of the podcast. How did Darren come to studying economic security and is there a framework for practising it? Are we returning to a world of spheres of influence? Is foreign interference being normalised? How is the ‘pivot to Asia' going? Have we reached peak democracy? Who will be the geopolitical winners of decarbonisation? Can academics influence foreign policy and are they self-censoring? It is a very wide-ranging conversation! Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research, interviewing and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Eliot Chen, “Does Washington Have China Groupthink?”, The Wire China, 5 January 2025: https://www.thewirechina.com/2025/01/05/does-washington-have-china-groupthink/ Arthur C. Brooks (personal website): https://arthurbrooks.com/ Rob Henderson, Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class (Gallery Books, 2024): https://www.amazon.com.au/Troubled-Memoir-Foster-Family-Social/dp/1982168536 The Day of the Jackal (TV Series): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Jackal_(TV_series)

In the past few months Darren has been teaching his elective undergraduate course, Power and Influence in World Politics (POLS2136) at ANU. This year, he has grappled with the impact of Donald Trump's re-election, and what it signifies for how power will be accumulated and wielded in the future. Remember, Trump's core critique of the Biden Administration was weakness – so presumably Trump plans to show us strength. Does that mean America can be more ‘powerful', or will the result actually be the opposite? And Australia's deals with PNG and Nauru this month illustrate how far Australia has come in exercising power and influence in recent years. Hervé Lemahieu and Susannah Patton of the Lowy Institute in Sydney join Darren for a conversation about power.  Hervé is Lowy's Director of Research and Susannah the Director of the Southeast Asia Program and Project Lead for Lowy's Asia Power Index, which Hervé first developed in 2018. Who better to have a conversation with about power, what it is, how we measure it, and how the forces that have given us Trump, or perhaps Trump himself, might require is to reassess how we conceive of power in world politics into the future. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Hervé Lemahieu (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/herve-lemahieu Susannah Patton (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/susannah-patton Lowy Institute Asia Power Index, 2024 Edition: https://power.lowyinstitute.org/ Susannah Patton and Hervé Lemahieu, “Asia has no hegemon: But U.S.-Chinese Bipolarity Is Good for America and the Region”, Foreign Affairs, 13 September: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/asia-has-no-hegemon-us-chinese-bipolarity-good-america-region Mitch McConnell, “The Price of American Retreat: Why Washington Must Reject Isolationism and Embrace Primacy”, Foreign Affairs, Jan/Feb 2025: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/price-american-retreat-trump-mitch-mcconnell Join or die (Netflix documentary): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81746809 Wicked (2024 Film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_(2024_film) 

Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC reported this past week on two significant deals the Australian government struck with the governments of Nauru and Papua New Guinea. He joins Darren to talk through how geopolitics, development, banking and finance and, yes, now the sport of rugby league, are all mixing together as Canberra sails into relatively uncharted waters in its foreign policy. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia inks treaty with Nauru locking out growing Chinese influence”, ABC News, 9 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-09/australia-nauru-treaty-locks-out-china/104702002 Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia, PNG unveil deal for Papua New Guinea team to enter NRL in 2028”, ABC News, 12 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-12/png-australia-unveil-new-nrl-team/104716250 Stephen Dziedzic, “Friends and partners weigh up Canberra's 'relentless' Pacific push”, ABC News, 14 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-14/canberras-relentless-pacific-push/104723598 Pat Conroy, TV Interview, Sarah Ferguson, ABC 7.30 (transcript), 12 December: https://ministers.dfat.gov.au/minister/pat-conroy/transcript/tv-interview-sarah-ferguson-abc-730 APRA Chair John Lonsdale's speech to the European Australian Business Council, 25 November 2024: https://www.apra.gov.au/news-and-publications/apra-chair-john-lonsdale%E2%80%99s-speech-to-european-australian-business-council Stephen Dziedzic, “Treasurer says government in 'final stages of negotiations' with ANZ to maintain bank's Pacific presence”, ABC News, 11 November: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-11/government-striking-deal-to-maintain-anz-bank-pacific-presence/104587514

As the world begins to think through the implications of a second Trump presidential term, Darren is joined once again by Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute to talk through what we do know, and what we don't, about the coming storm. What was Trump's basic critique of the Biden administration's foreign policy? What are the competing camps on foreign policy inside Trumpworld? And what should Australia do, about AUKUS, the Quad, and the alliance generally? Does Kevin Rudd's position remain tenable? There's a lot to discuss, albeit with the caveat that we do not know much for certain at this point! Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Zack Cooper (bio): https://www.aei.org/profile/zack-cooper/ Zack Cooper, Tides of Fortune: The Rise and Decline of Great Militaries (2025, Yale University Press): https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300268676/tides-of-fortune/ Net Assessment (podcast): https://warontherocks.com/category/podcasts/net-assessment/ Tanner Greer, “The Battle to Shape Trump's China policy”, Foreign Policy Research Institute, 29 October 2024: https://www.fpri.org/article/2024/10/the-battle-to-shape-trumps-china-policy/ Ezra Klein Show (podcast), Vivek Ramaswamy Has a Different Vision for Trumpism From JD Vance, 29 October 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-vivek-ramaswamy.html

The shock may not be quite as sharp as 2016, but the consequences could well be even more dire. Eliza Harvey of the ABC returns to join Darren in talking through thoughts, and feelings, in reaction to Donald Trump's stunning election victory.  Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

In an era where “economic security is national security”, arguably the most important perspective in how governments ought to intervene in the economy--in ways to maximise benefits and minimise costs--is that of the private sector. With that in mind, Darren welcomes Dr Huw McKay to the podcast to hear a business perspective on the economic security agenda and geoeconomics. Huw has just returned to Australia after living in Singapore for many years where he worked as Chief Economist at BHP. Prior to that he was an Executive Director at Westpac Bank and also spent time at the Commonwealth Treasury on secondment during the financial crisis. He holds a PhD in economics and economic history from ANU and his book, The Strategic Logic of China's Economy, was published this year. The agenda for this conversation will be familiar to those thinking about economic security – how do we define it, is it simply all about China, what principles should guide industrial policy, how do we manage the weaponisation of supply chains and chokepoints, how can we counter economic coercion, and how can the rules-based order be preserved? As the Australian government builds out its “Future Made in Australia” agenda, this is exactly the type of conversation that is needed to inform the debate. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Huw McKay (LinkedIn): https://au.linkedin.com/in/huw-mckay-6ab582ab Huw McKay, The Strategic Logic of China's Economy (2024): https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-47229-9 Hugh White, The China Choice: Why America Should Share Power (2012): https://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/china-choice Graeme Snooks, The dynamic society: Explaining the sources of global change (1996) (Goodreads): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1263694.The_Dynamic_Society The rest is history (podcast): https://www.goalhangerpodcasts.com/the-rest-is-history Huberman Lab (podcast): Esther Perel: How to Find, Build & Maintain Healthy Romantic Relationships: https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/esther-perel-how-to-find-build-maintain-healthy-romantic-relationships

India has only been on the periphery of Darren's professional vision since the dramatic headlines last year surrounding the killing of a Sikh activist in Canada and an indictment alleging a similar assassination attempt in the US. But 2024 has been a big year for India with its national election and PM Modi winning a 3rd term, but with a far smaller margin of victory than most expected. And with the Quad meeting recently being held in Joe Biden's home state of Delaware, now is a good time to catch up on the world's most populous country. To do that Darren invited back Ian Hall. Ian is a Professor of international relations at Griffith University and an Academic Fellow at the Australia India Institute. Darren asks what the election and post-election tell us about the trajectory of India's democracy. They discuss whether India ought to be modelled as a ‘normal' rising power and the nature (and limit) of China as the core organising principle of Western cooperation with India, with a focus on the Quad. Finally, they discuss the Indian diaspora in Australia. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Ian Hall (biography): https://experts.griffith.edu.au/18600-ian-hall Ian Hall, Modi and the Reinvention of Indian Foreign Policy (Bristol U Press, 2021): https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/modi-and-the-reinvention-of-indian-foreign-policy Grand Tamasha (podcast): https://carnegieendowment.org/podcasts/interpreting-india Global India (podcast): https://www.brookings.edu/tags/global-india-podcast/ Vijay Gokhale, The Long Game: How the Chinese Negotiate with India (Penguin India, 2021): https://www.penguin.co.in/book/the-long-game/ Steve Randy Waldman, “Abundance is overcapacity”, Interfluidity Drafts (blog), 17 Sep 2024: https://drafts.interfluidity.com/2024/09/17/abundance-is-overcapacity/index.html

In the spirit of trying to channel his obsession with the US election in a (somewhat) productive way, Darren welcomes back Andrew Phillips from the University of Queensland to talk through the extent to which Trump is a ‘normal' political candidate versus an existential threat to US democracy. Along the way, Darren cannot resist the temptation to introduce Francis Fukuyama's “last man” model of political resistance, often overlooked when his “End of History” thesis is discussed. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Sohrab Ahmari, “There is an intellectual sickness on the American right”, The New Statesman, 11 September 2024: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/americas/north-america/us/2024/09/there-is-an-intellectual-sickness-on-the-american-right Andrew Dougall, Mediatizing the Nation, Ordering the World, Oxford University Press, 2024: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/mediatizing-the-nation-ordering-the-world-9780198882114?lang=en&cc=ru Zhang, F.J. “Political endorsement by Nature and trust in scientific expertise during COVID-19”, Nat Hum Behav 7, 696–706 (2023): https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-023-01537-5 Tyler Cowen, “How public intellectuals can extend their shelf lives”, Marginal Revolution, 6 February 2020: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/02/how-public-intellectuals-can-extend-their-shelf-lives.html Miss Americana (documentary): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81028336 The Ezra Klein Show, “On Children, Meaning, Media and Psychedelics”, 3 September 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/03/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jia-tolentino.html The Ezra Klein Show, “Zadie Smith on Populists, Frauds and Flip Phones”, 17 September 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-zadie-smith.html Linkin Park, “The Emptiness Machine” (Official Music Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRXH9AbT280 The Deep Life by Cal Newport (podcast): https://www.thedeeplife.com/listen/

Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC recently reported from the Pacific Islands Forum leaders retreat in Tonga. He joins Darren to unpack a very interesting meeting, focusing in particular on the Pacific Policing Initiative (and PM Albanese's discussions with US Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell, unintentionally recorded on camera) and a reference to Taiwan included in the original communique that was subsequently removed after Beijing forcefully objected (with another interesting exchange caught on camera). Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, “Pacific Islands leaders endorse regional policing initiative in strategic victory for Australia”, ABC News, 28 August: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-28/vanuatu-melanesia-officials-warn-policing-could-block-china/104277614 Stephen Dziedzic, “Anthony Albanese caught on camera joking about Pacific Policing Initiative with top US official Kurt Campbell”, ABC News, 29 August: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-29/albanese-top-us-official-filmed-in-private-chat-pacific/104283976 Stephen Dziedzic, “Pacific Islands Forum says error to blame for Taiwan reference in communique that angered China”, ABC News, 2 September: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-02/pacific-islands-forum-meeting-taiwan-reference-china-ambassador/104299186 John Le Carré, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (novel): https://www.penguin.com.au/authors/john-le-carre Odd Lots (Podcast), “How the White House Thinks About Economic Security”, 15 August: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-15/white-house-advisor-daleep-singh-on-economic-security?srnd=oddlots

One year ago, the Albanese Labor government launched the “New International Development Policy”. Darren invites back Bridi Rice, CEO of the Canberra-based Development Intelligence Lab, to assess where the policy stands 12 months in. They review the initial logic of the policy and discuss the role of Development Partnership Plans, the first two (for PNG and Indonesia) having been published. The discussion returns to the topic of integrating development practice and foreign policy, with the Falepili Union between Australia and Tuvalu used as an example. Darren also seeks Bridi's views on “non-traditional” development policies like Taiwan and AUKUS!   Correction: The statistics in the think tank report are “Australia spends approximately $64b per year on foreign affairs, defence, development and intelligence. The total annual turnover among think tanks is around $64m". Bridi said $70b/$70m on the recording.   Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links DFAT “New International Development Policy” (2023): https://www.dfat.gov.au/development/new-international-development-policy DFAT, Australia's – Papua New Guinea Development Partnership Plan 2024 – 2029: https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/development/australias-papua-new-guinea-development-partnership-plan-2024-2029 DFAT, Australia – Indonesia Development Partnership Plan 2024-2028, https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/development/australia-indonesia-development-partnership-plan-2024-2028 The Readout (podcast), “The Hon Pat Conroy x Australia's International Development Policy Anniversary Event”, 22 August 2024: https://www.devintelligencelab.com/readout/s6-patconroy William Leben and Bridi Rice, “Australia's strategic policy think tank landscape”, June 2024: https://www.devintelligencelab.com/analyses/australias-strategic-policy-think-tank-landscape William Barton (composer): https://anam.com.au/theanamset/composers/williambarton Theodore Ell, Lebanon Days: Memories of an ancient land through economic meltdown, a revolution of hope and surviving the 2020 Beirut explosion, Allen & Unwin: https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Theodore-Ell-Lebanon-Days-9781922928054

It is impossible to look away from US politics at the moment, and so Darren cannot help but keep his focus on the presidential election. Yet beyond the horse race are larger questions about the health of democracy in the US and indeed around the world, given the pressures democratic systems everywhere are facing. Trump's unconventional (to say the least) political conduct reveals the seams or weaknesses in democratic systems that might have been difficult to see clearly in times of stability. The role of the media is one such example. While voters have been saying for months that Biden's age is a problem, the relative silence in mainstream media on the issue (at least until after the first debate) arguably did not serve the interests of US democracy. To unpack this issue and many others besides, Darren is joined by Eliza Harvey. Eliza is the Executive Producer of the ABC panel discussion program Q+A, having first joined the ABC as a cadet in the mid-2000s and worked in many roles in and around journalism and the media ever since. She is also a US politics junkie, situating her ideally to discuss the current dynamics in the campaign, but also larger questions about the health of US democracy (and how we measure it), and the role played by the media and the public in keeping democracies strong. In a conversation recorded on 1 August, the two also venture predictions for Harris' Vice-Presidential pick, which will be made known within 24 hours of this episode being published! Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Careers in International Affairs Panel (AIIA, ACT Branch), 13 August 2024, 5:30pm at University of Canberra: https://aiiaact.glueup.com/event/careers-in-international-affairs-panel-113718/ Q+A (ABC TV show): https://www.abc.net.au/qanda  Claire Keegan, Small Things Like These (book): https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Claire-Keegan-Small-Things-Like-These-9780571368709 Boy Swallows Universe (TV series): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81449940 YR (weather app): https://www.yr.no/en  

Just in case you needed one more 'emergency' politics podcast in the wake of the news that President Biden will not contest the US presidential election, and that it appears overwhelmingly likely that Vice President Harris will be nominated by the Democratic Party, Darren is joined by the ABC's Stephen Dziedzic to give their reactions, both personal and professional, on these remarkable events.  Is the US undergoing inexorable political decay, or can American democracy renew itself? Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Sinica (podcast), Adam Tooze on the U.S., China, the Energy Transition — and Saying the Unsayable, 4 July 2024: https://sinica.substack.com/p/adam-tooze-on-the-us-china-the-energy 

China's Premier Li Qiang successfully visited Australia last month. The loan of two more pandas captured headlines, but if one looks closely at how the visit unfolded it's clear Australia faces a very complex strategic landscape. The Albanese government clearly wants to maintain a stabilised relationship with China under the PM's manta “cooperative where we can, disagree where we must, and engage in the national interest”.  But what are the benefits and costs of that strategy, and are the trade-offs worth it? Darren is joined once again by Dr Ben Herscovitch of the ANU for a conversation that lays out alternative framings for the choices the Australian government is, and is not, making in how it manages the China bilateral, and whether these choices are in the national interest. A little while ago the podcast crossed 500,000 lifetime downloads! Thanks to all of you for giving up your time to listen. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Noah Barkin LinkedIn post on German Economy Minister Habeck's visit to China: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7210557349697122304/ “A Sustainable Economic Partnership for Partnership for Australia and China”, East Asian Bureau of Economic Research, Crawford School of Public Policy, ANU, May 2024: https://eaber.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/A-Sustainable-Economic-Partnership-for-Australia-and-China.pdf Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, “Statement regarding recent incidents in the South China Sea”, 18 June 2024: https://www.dfat.gov.au/news/media-release/statement-regarding-recent-incidents-south-china-sea Darren Lim and John Ikenberry, “China and the logic of illiberal hegemony”, Security Studies: (ungated) https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4244377  || (gated) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2178963 Jennifer Hewett, “The contradictions in Australia's China policy”, Australian Financial Review, 12 June 2024: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-contradictions-in-australia-s-china-policy-20240612-p5jl66 Deutschland 83 (TV series): https://tv.apple.com/au/show/deutschland-83/umc.cmc.4tlfhbbwsfeijwbe74so97qv6 Derisky Business (podcast): https://www.cnas.org/publications/podcast/everyone-loves-tariffs “Epistemic humility” mug on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1751474343/epistemic-humility-ceramic-mug

Mike Pezzullo recently said that “the likelihood of conflict in this decade has been about 10 per cent, which is meaningful enough to plan for and indeed to be concerned about”. If Pezzullo's assessment is correct, that means there is a 90 per cent chance that conflict will not happen. What is Australia's plan for that (likely) scenario? This episode is about that 90% world, where Australia's relationship with China will still matter greatly, as Beijing's behaviour influences many of our interests, not just geopolitics and national security. How might Australia consider thinking about a cooperative agenda with the PRC? In the words of PM Albanese, his government's approach is to “co-operate with China where we can, disagree where we must and engage in our national interest”. Where can we cooperate, especially given the deep freeze in political relations that the two countries are only now climbing out of? What does engagement in the national interest mean given the extent to which China can affect many things we care about? Darren is joined in this conversation by Dr Paul Hubbard. Paul is trained as an economist, first joining the Australian Public Service in 2006, and was sent from there to the ANU as a Sir Roland Wilson PhD Scholar in 2014.  More recently, in his capacity as a National Government Fellow at the ANU, Paul led a small team to produce a report - "A Sustainable Economic Partnership for Australia and China" that was launched in May. The report proposes an agenda for how Canberra and Beijing can take their economic relationship forward, and the two discuss that in the context of the broader question of what it means to develop a cooperative agenda with China and how should we think about the constraints imposed by geopolitics on that work? Note: the report reflects the views of the ANU research team, and Paul's comments in this episode are in an unofficial capacity as an expert on the Chinese economy, and do not represent the views of the Australian Government or its agencies. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links “A Sustainable Economic Partnership for Partnership for Australia and China”, East Asian Bureau of Economic Research, Crawford School of Public Policy, ANU, May 2024: https://eaber.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/A-Sustainable-Economic-Partnership-for-Australia-and-China.pdf Partnership for Change: Australia–China Joint Economic Report, Report authored by East Asian Bureau of Economic Research and China Center for International Economic Exchanges, August 2016: https://press.anu.edu.au/publications/partnership-change#:~:text=The%2520Australia%E2%80%93China%2520Joint%2520Economic,in%2520both%2520Australia%2520and%2520China. 2017 Foreign Policy White Paper: https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/2017-foreign-policy-white-paper.pdf Paul Hubbard and Dhruv Sharma, “Understanding and applying long-term GDP projections”, EABER Working Paper Series, Paper No. 119, June 2016: https://eaber.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/EABER-Working-Paper-119-Hubbard-Sharma.pdf Paul Hubbard, A Wealth of Narrations: https://www.amazon.com.au/Wealth-Narrations-1-PC-Hubbard/dp/B0CR6TXX7C Chris Miller, Chip War: https://www.simonandschuster.com.au/books/Chip-War/Chris-Miller/9781398504127 The Ezra Klein Show, “Israelis Are Not Watching the Same War You Are:, Interview with Amit Segal, 14 June 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-amit-segal.html

Joining Darren this episode is Jude Blanchette. Jude holds the Freeman Chair in China Studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). There's no-one whose analysis and commentary Darren values more highly in helping him understand China.   The context for this discussion is the fact that this weekend China's Premier Li Qiang will visit Australia, the first visit by Chinese #2 since 2017. Following on from PM Albanese's trip to Beijing late last year, and FM Wang Yi's trip to Australia in March, Premier Li's visit will continue the process of unfreezing the political relationship, what the current Australian government famously labels ‘stabilisation'. However, the Albanese government has not escaped criticism for its approach to China. Some would argue Canberra has gone softer on Beijing than it could have, whether on responding to dangerous actions by the Chinese military, or on perennial issues like human rights. And there's also been a criticism of stabilisation as strategy – what is the goal of stabilisation? What is the end state? What is striking about these criticisms is how similar they are to criticisms of the Biden's administration's approach to China, which is often given the label ‘competition'. What is the goal of competition? Does the US just ‘compete' indefinitely, a kind of steady-state, or should it be focused on an ‘end-state'? A recent piece by former Trump administration China lead Matt Pottinger and retiring GOP Congressperson Mike Gallagher argues that the goal should be not to compete, but to win. With all this as context, recently Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade hosted a group of US-based China experts here in Canberra, presenting Darren with an opportunity to interview Jude in-studio. Jude also hosts the excellent Pekingology podcast, where he interviews scholars and researchers who study the actions of China's government and the CCP in particular. In our conversation we cover Australia-China relations, US-China relations and the links between the two, and many other things besides. We start, of course, with the concept of stabilisation in the Australian context, but very quickly that broadens out into a discussion of the Biden approach given its parallels with stabilisation, and the Pottinger/Gallagher critique. We then turn to the question of how to influence China, and the balance between wielding direct influence versus working indirectly with partners. I ask Jude how he explains the apparent adjustment in PRC foreign policy in recent years, and how a potential Trump return to the Presidency might shake things up. Above all however the big question overshadowing our discussion is this: what's the best way of forging a long-term China strategy, how early are we into the competition phase with China, and how long will it last? And what is the narrative needed to sustain such a strategy? Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Jude Blanchette (bio): https://www.csis.org/people/jude-blanchette Pekingology (podcast): https://www.csis.org/podcasts/pekingology  Matt Pottinger and Mike Gallagher, “No Substitute for Victory: America's Competition With China Must Be Won, Not Managed”, Foreign Affairs, May/June 2024: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/no-substitute-victory-pottinger-gallagher David Engerman, Know your enemy: The Rise and Fall of America's Soviet Experts (book): https://global.oup.com/academic/product/know-your-enemy-9780195324860 The Gloaming (band): https://www.youtube.com/c/thegloaming Zach Bryan, “I remember everything” (feat. Kacey Musgraves): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVVvJjwzl6c

Two guests join Darren this week: Professor Joanne Wallis from the University of Adelaide and Professor Bec Strating from La Trobe University. They have recently published a book titled Girt by Sea: Reimagining Australia's Security, published by Blank Inc. Their project is an ambitious one—to question the very foundations of what it means for Australia to be secure, and indeed who indeed it is that needs to be secure, and therefore how Australia should understand its strategic challenges and find lasting security. The importance of this book is demonstrated by fact that Foreign Minister Penny Wong launched it recently in Adelaide, where the Minister said that the questions the authors ask in the book are many of the questions she herself grapples with. This is not however a standard “let's talk about my new book” episode, because when Darren read Girt by Sea he was struck how much the book's arguments were consistent with what he understands to be “progressive” principles of foreign policy thought. While Bec and Joanne do not fully embrace the progressive label for their work, it is nevertheless an interesting and arguably useful lens to frame the conversation, including the authors' ‘reimagining' project. In contrast, Darren would not label himself as a progressive thinker and disagrees with the book's starting premise that Australian security needs reimagining, perhaps revealing himself to be a cranky conservative! But, hopefully, disagreement makes for an engaging conversation. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Joanne Wallis (bio): https://researchers.adelaide.edu.au/profile/joanne.wallis Bec Strating (bio): https://scholars.latrobe.edu.au/bstrating Girt by Sea: Re-Imagining Australia's Security (Black Inc, 2024): https://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/girt-sea-0 Bisley, N., Eckersley, R., Hameiri, S., Kirk, J., Lawson, G., & Zala, B. (2022). “For a progressive realism: Australian foreign policy in the 21st century”. Australian Journal of International Affairs, 76(2), 138–160. https://doi.org/10.1080/10357718.2022.2051428 Van Jackson, Grand Strategies of the Left: The Foreign Policy of Progressive Worldmaking (Cambridge University Press, 2023): https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/grand-strategies-of-the-left/966D16DBED1238269D1B4816F41AEF7D Statecraftiness: Mapping Competition, Cooperation, and Coercion in the Pacific Islands: https://www.adelaide.edu.au/stretton/our-research/security-in-the-pacific-islands/statecraftiness Asia Rising (podcast): https://www.latrobe.edu.au/asia/podcasts Taylor Swift, “Florida!!!” (feat. Florence + The Machine) (Official Lyric Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEssK8o3jKg

Recent events in economic security (or, geoeconomics) have been dizzying, but exciting for Darren given this is his primary academic field. In Australia, the new budget delivered by the government plans over $20b of industry policy funding for a “Future Made in Australia”. Meanwhile in the US, the Biden Administration has sharply increased tariffs on Chinese goods focused on green energy. The US wants to cultivate domestic manufacturing, in part because it sees PRC dominance of green technology as a national security risk. This means there is a lot to discuss! In this episode Darren talks with Hayley Channer. who is the Director of the Economic Security Program with the United States Studies Centre at the University of Sydney. Hayley has a diverse background having worked as an Australian Government official, Ministerial adviser, think tank analyst, and represented global non-profit organisations. Prior to her current role, Hayley was a Senior Policy Fellow with the Perth USAsia Centre and, amongst other accolades, was awarded a Fulbright Scholarship in 2022. This lengthy discussion covers the goals of economic security policy and the inherent trade-offs in this domain, particularly in the context of both Australia's and the US' emerging industrial policy efforts, as well as the problem of responding to economic coercion. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Hayley Channer (bio): https://www.ussc.edu.au/hayley-channer Anthony Albanese, “A future made in Australia”, Speech, 11 April 2024: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/future-made-australia Jim Chalmers, “Economic security and the Australian opportunity in a world of churn and change”, Speech at Lowy Institute, 1 May 2024: https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/speeches/address-lowy-institute-sydney Hayley Channer and Georgia Edmonstone, “What does ‘economic security' mean to Australia in 2024?”, US Studies Centre Brief, 30 January 2024: https://www.ussc.edu.au/what-does-economic-security-mean-to-australia-in-2024 Lim, D. (2019). Economic statecraft and the revenge of the state. East Asia Forum Quarterly, 11(4), 31–32: https://eastasiaforum.org/2019/12/04/economic-statecraft-and-the-revenge-of-the-state/ Ferguson, Victor A., Darren J. Lim, and Benjamin Herscovitch. “Between Market and State: The Evolution of Australia's Economic Statecraft.” The Pacific Review 36, no. 5 (September 3, 2023): 1148–80. https://doi.org/10.1080/09512748.2023.2200026 Victor A. Ferguson, Scott Waldron and Darren J. Lim (2022), “Market Adjustments to Import Sanctions: Lessons from Chinese Restrictions on Australian Trade, 2020-21”, Review of International Political Economy”, http://doi.org/10.1080/09692290.2022.2090019 Darren J. Lim, Benjamin Herscovitch, and Victor A. Ferguson, “Australia's Reassessment of Economic Interdependence with China”, in Strategic Asia (2023): https://www.nbr.org/publication/australias-reassessment-of-economic-interdependence-with-china/ Leading (podcast), “Speaking Truth to Trump | Former Head of Trump's Communications, Anthony Scaramucci”, 21 February 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juvfEZsZqUY&list=PL_6zDbB-zRef_M7eXuSLUlGnt7qk66hJq&index=9 Abhijit V. Banerjee, Esther Duflo, Good economics for hard times: Better answers to our biggest problems (2019): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51014619-good-economics-for-hard-times (Goodreads page) Dani Rodrik, “Don't Fret About Green Subsidies”, Project Syndicate, 10 May 2024: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/green-subsidies-justified-on-economic-environmental-and-moral-grounds-by-dani-rodrik-2024-05

Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute joins Darren to discuss the troubling trend of PRC military actions that are endangering Australian personnel and equipment, and those of our partners. Last week, a Chinese fighter aircraft dropped flares into the path of an Australian helicopter that was conducting a patrol in international waters as part of sanctions-enforcement against North Korea. Australia lodged diplomatic protests and PM Albanese called the action ‘completely unacceptable'. Similar incidents have happened before. Last year Australian naval divers suffered minor injuries after a Chinese warship released sonar pulses, and there have been other aerial incidents as well. Why are Chinese forces doing this? Can Australia respond, either unilaterally or with partners? Is an increasingly risky maritime domain now simply part of the price of protecting our interests? Zack talks Darren through his perspective on these issues. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Andrew Greene, “Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter detonates flares”, ABC News, 6 May 2024: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-06/australian-helicopter-chines-fighter-flares-hmas-hobart/103812042 Euan Graham, “China's latest unsafe interception at sea was no accident”, ASPI Strategist, 8 May 2024:

Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC once again joins Darren to discuss a busy month of news, starting with the recent election in Solomon Islands, then a bombshell Washington Post story about the alleged involvement of the Indian government in targeted killings (with a strong Australian angle); next the recent 2+2 bilateral with South Korea and the possibility of others joining onto AUKUS Pillar 2, and finishing with FM Penny Wong's statement that statehood for Palestine is required to break the cycle of violence. This episode was recorded on Friday 3 May, exactly one year following the death of Allan Gyngell. He is dearly missed. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, Chrisnrita Aumanu-Leong, Evan Wasuka and Doug Dingwall, “Former diplomat Jeremiah Manele elected as new Solomon Islands prime minister”, ABC News, 2 May 2024: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-02/solomon-islands-new-prime-minister-election-jeremiah-manele/103791138 Greg Miller, Gerry Shih and Ellen Nakashima, “An assassination plot on American soil reveals a darker side of Modi's India”, Washington Post, April 29, 2024: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/29/india-assassination-raw-sikhs-modi/ Penny Wong, “Speech to the ANU National Security College “Securing our Future”, 9 April 2024: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/speech/speech-anu-national-security-college-securing-our-future Bettany Hughes, “The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World” (book): https://www.hachette.com.au/bettany-hughes/the-seven-wonders-of-the-ancient-world Serial, Season 4 (podcast): https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/podcasts/serial-season-four-guantanamo.html   Ezra Klein Show (podcast), “Salman Rushdie is not who you think he is”, 26 April 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-salman-rushdie.html

In the third episode of a mini-series on international order, Darren is joined by Amy King, an Associate Professor at the Australian National University, to discuss China. It is now cliché to say that China is having a major impact on the current order and its trajectory, but there is little agreement on what that impact is and how far it might go. Darren has taken a keen interest in this question in his academic research, co-authoring a paper titled “China and the logic of illiberal hegemony” with John Ikenberry that was published in 2023. The journal's editors subsequently invited two scholars to write critiques, one of those being Amy King.   Darren opens by seeking Amy's views on whether the “post-Cold War order” is a useful starting point to discuss China's influence, and whether she agrees with US Secretary of State Blinken that that this particular order is at an end. They then turn to Darren's paper, with Darren describing his model of “illiberal hegemony”, where China's approach to order-building is partially extrapolated from its domestic models of political order and economic organisation. Amy has multiple disagreements both with the model and its implications, which makes for an engaging back-and-forth. This is another long and wonkish conversation, but returns continuously to practical questions, such what Australian diplomats might say when defending the (old) order to their colleagues across the region. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Amy King (bio): https://amykingonline.com/ Darren Lim and John Ikenberry, “China and the logic of illiberal hegemony”, Security Studies: (ungated) https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4244377  || (gated) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2178963 Amy King, “The Collective Logic of (Chinese) Hegemonic Order”, Security Studies: (ungated) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2253148 Matthew Stephen, “China and the Limits of Hypothetical Hegemony”, Security Studies: (ungated) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2259801 Darren Lim and John Ikenberry, “China and Hegemony: An Exchange – The Authors Reply”, Security Studies (gated, contact Darren for a copy): https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2252735 Richard Flanagan, “Question 7” (novel): https://www.penguin.com.au/books/question-7-9781761343452 Sam Sachdeva, “The China tightrope: Navigating New Zealand's relationship with a world superpower: https://www.allenandunwin.co.nz/browse/book/Sam-Sachdeva-China-Tightrope-9781991006172/

In the second episode in a mini-series on international order, Darren is joined by Dr. Jenny Gordon to discuss the international economic order. Over the past 40 years Australia has arguably been the single greatest beneficiary of the post-war economic order, at least among the group of industrialised countries. But from the GFC to Brexit to paralysis in the WTO to the rise of weaponised interdependence, geoeconomics and industrial policy, the rules and institutions of that old economic order – and the international trade and investment that flourished within it – are all under threat. Dr Jenny Gordon is an Honorary Professor at POLIS: The Centre for Social Policy Research at the Australian National University and a non-resident fellow at the Lowy Institute. Jenny had a long career in government, most recently as Chief Economist at DFAT from 2019 to 2021. Prior to that she spent 10 years at the Productivity Commission as the Principal Advisor Research, worked in the private sector, and began her professional career at the Reserve Bank of Australia. She holds a PhD in economics from Harvard University. The conversation begins with the question: what was the old economic order, when did it begin and what did it do? As an economist, Jenny says the end of the Cold War is not a key turning point for the post-war economic order, one must go back to the 1970s and forward to 2000s find these turning points. She describes why the order worked well and how Australia did so well within it. The discussion moves to the problems and tensions that emerged that have led us to the current moment, and the two debate – and disagree slightly – on the actual state of the current economic order. Finally, they look to the future, and discuss industrial policy, climate change, alternative models of economic growth and, of course, geopolitics, as well as what the rules and institutions of the future might need to do to protect the benefits of economic openness while managing contemporary policy challenges like climate change. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Jenny Gordon (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/jenny-gordon The Seven Moons of Maali Almeida: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Moons_of_Maali_Almeida Peter Bellwood, The Five-Million-Year Odyssey: The Human Journey from Ape to Agriculture: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691197579/the-five-million-year-odyssey 99 Percent Invisible (podcast): https://99percentinvisible.org/ Lupin (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80994082 Huberman Lab Podcast, “Dr. Becky Kennedy: Protocols for Excellent Parenting & Improving Relationships of All Kinds”, 26 February 2024: https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-becky-kennedy-protocols-for-excellent-parenting-improving-relationships-of-all-kinds

China's foreign minister, Wang Yi, visited Australia this week. The visit attracted a great deal of scrutiny, not just for the long list of issues in the bilateral relationship, but also Wang's meeting with former Prime Minister Paul Keating. Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC joins Darren to discuss the week's events. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, “Tibetan activists protest outside Chinese embassy against Foreign Minister Wang Yi's visit”, ABC News, 20 March 2024: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-20/apn-protest-outside-chinese-embassy-as-wang-yi-visits/103611798 Daniel Flitton, “Don't be timid about Trump, Australia, just roll with the punches, Lowy Interpreter, 21 March 2024: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/don-t-be-timid-about-trump-australia-just-roll-punches  

This episode is the first of a series of at least three that are linked by the theme of international order. Last year US Secretary of State Blinken said “what we're experiencing now is more than a test of the post-Cold War order. It's the end of it”. The concept of the possible ending of an order raises lots of questions: what exactly was the old order, why is it ending (if indeed it is), and what might come next? Why do these questions matter for Australia in the world? This series will try to tackle these questions from a few different angles. The first topic is war and international order. The two-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine has passed, and it is approaching six months since Hamas attacked Israel. These are conflicts with potentially major impacts on international order. They are also important for the leadership role the US might play in that order going forward. To discuss these conflicts through the lens of order Darren is joined by Andrew Phillips, an Associate Professor at the University of Queensland. Andrew's research focuses on war, strategy, and international order, with a particular focus on Great Power rivalry and asymmetric violence as drivers of transformative change in world politics. Andrew and Darren recorded this episode earlier in March. They start with an assessment of where each of these conflicts is currently at, how they might end, and through what mechanisms they are affecting the broader international order, and the leadership role of the United States. It is one of the longest episodes in the history of the podcast, but the simple fact is that these types of conversations require such length to be done well. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Andrew Phillips (bio): https://polsis.uq.edu.au/profile/1348/andrew-phillips Darren Lim and G. John Ikenberry, “China and the Logic of Illiberal Hegemony”, Security Studies, 28 February 2023: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2178963 George Lawson and Ayşe Zarakol, “Recognizing injustice: the ‘hypocrisy charge' and the future of the liberal international order”, International Affairs, Volume 99, Issue 1, January 2023, Pages 201–217: https://academic.oup.com/ia/article/99/1/201/6967344 Dune (Part 2): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15239678/ Ezra Klein Show (podcast), “Marilynne Robinson on Biblical Beauty, Human Evil and the Idea of Israel”, 5 March 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-marilynne-robinson.html

A frenetic period of Australian diplomacy has wrapped up, after Australia hosted the ASEAN-Australia Special Summit in Melbourne, which commemorated 50 years of Dialogue Relations. The ABC's Stephen Dziedzic followed events closely and joins Darren to talk through the week's news. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia and South-East Asian nations endorse watered-down Melbourne Declaration to strengthen ties in the region”, ABC News, 6 March 2024: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-06/australia-south-east-asia-melbourne-declaration-asean-ties/103556630 Susannah Patton, X (Twitter) Thread with reflections on the ASEAN summit, 7 March 2024: https://twitter.com/SusannahCPatton/status/1765500247349039417 Greg Earl, “Economic diplomacy: Australia Inc's new tilt at ASEAN”, Lowy Interpreter, 7 March 2024: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/economic-diplomacy-australia-inc-s-new-tilt-asean

Indonesians have voted for their next president, and while the results have not been finalised, Prabowo Subianto looks very likely to replace the incumbent Joko Widodo (Jokowi). Darren is joined by Aaron Connelly, Senior Fellow for Southeast Asian Politics and Foreign Policy at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, to discuss politics in Indonesia. In particular, how did Jokowi's former rival in his two election victories come to receive the president's implicit support in this one? Who is the typical “swing voter” in Indonesia? How will Jokowi's legacy be affected by the conduct of the election, and what might we expect from a Prabowo presidency, especially given his controversial past? Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Aaron Connelly biography: https://www.iiss.org/en/people/southeast-asian-politics-and-foreign-policy/aaron-connelly/ Pramoedya Ananta Toer, Buru Quartet Series: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/AN6/buru-quartet/ The National Security Podcast, “Election watch 2024: what makes Indonesian democracy unique?”, 8 February 2024: https://shows.acast.com/the-national-security-podcast/episodes/2024-indonesian-elections Lowy Institute Conversations, “The comeback general — Prabowo's thumping victory and what it means for Indonesia”, 16 February 2024: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/conversations-comeback-general-prabowo-s-thumping-victory-what-it-means-indonesia

Continuing a tradition of podcast, for the first episode back from a long summer break Darren is joined by good friend of the podcast Richard Maude to discuss what each learned from 2023, what trends were notable, and what we might expect – or hope for – in 2024. The discussion covers both the world, and Australia in the world, and the two are able to agree on the ‘word of the year' for 2023: fragmentation. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Richard Maude biography: https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/richard-maude Secretary Antony J. Blinken Remarks to the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) “The Power and Purpose of American Diplomacy in a New Era”, 13 September 2023: https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-remarks-to-the-johns-hopkins-school-of-advanced-international-studies-sais-the-power-and-purpose-of-american-diplomacy-in-a-new-era/ Wang Yi speech at a symposium on the international situation and China's foreign relations in 2023, summarised in Xinhua piece: https://english.news.cn/20240109/f8a95bbb328642c1b11c05fb409bff9d/c.html?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email Josh Rogin, Chaos Under heaven (Goodreads page): https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/54562943 Lawrence Durrell, Bitter Lemons of Cyprus (Goodreads page): https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/214948 Tracy Chapman and Luke Coombs, “Fast Car”, 2024 Grammys (video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEqb6xbeuCo

PM Albanese's visit to Beijing has ended. Are Australia-China relations “stabilised”? And if so, what's next? To discuss these big questions Darren is joined by Ben Herscovitch, his colleague at the ANU and author of the indispensable Substack newsletter “Beijing to Canberra and Back”. Relevant links Ben Herscovitch, “The Prime Minister's visit, what really caused relationship repair, and a policy takeaway”, Beijing to Canberra and Back, 30 October to 7 November 2023: https://beijing2canberra.substack.com/p/the-prime-ministers-visit-what-really Ben Herscovitch, “Australia should sanction Chinese officials abusing human rights”, Canberra Times, 7 November 2023: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8413517/no-escaping-an-uncomfortable-fact-about-pms-handling-of-china/ Darren Lim and Walter Colnaghi, “Allan Gyngell's podcasting contribution to Australian foreign policy”, Australian Journal of International Affairs, 7 November 2023: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10357718.2023.2272825 Yiruma, “River flows in you” (video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7maJOI3QMu0  N NASA, "Pale blue dot" (image): https://science.nasa.gov/resource/voyager-1s-pale-blue-dot/  Jurassic Park (Film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Park_(film)

The ABC's Stephen Dziedzic joins once again this episode. PM Albanese is visiting China later this week, and Darren frames a new bargaining phase of the relationship, in which both sides (but especially Australia) must manage multiple, complex, and cross-cutting equities. He imagines a ‘ledger' of ‘wins' for both sides, and the discussion revolves around what might lie behind some of the recent policy decisions made by the government that appear favourable to Beijing's interests, such as Darwin port and anti-dumping duties. The PM has also just returned from a state visit to Washington DC, and so Darren and Stephen discuss the prospects of AUKUS getting through congress, the extent to which there are differences between the Biden Administration and the Albanese government on China, and some other interesting details from a speech delivered by the PM. Stephen then discusses his recent article with Lice Movono on the Fijian government reversing an apparent decision to join a statement criticising China on human rights. The podcast concludes touching upon the fact that Stephen just spent the past week sitting in senate estimates hearings – for what purpose, and what did he learn? Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Stephen Dziedzic, “Why did Beijing choose this moment to release Cheng Lei, and what might it signify?”, ABC News, 13 October 2023: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-13/cheng-lei-analysis-xiao-qian-beijing-albanese-visit/102972204 Stephen Dziedzic, “Federal government will not cancel Chinese company Landbridge's Port of Darwin lease”, ABC News, 20 October 2023: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-20/port-of-darwin-chinese-company-lease-not-cancelled/103003452 Stephen Dziedzic and Lice Movono, “Fiji to withdraw name from list of nations criticising China's human rights violations of Uyghur and Muslim minorities”, ABC News, 27 October 2023: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-27/fiji-backs-united-nations-china-human-rights-violations-xinjiang/103025888 Evan Osnos, “China's age of malaise”, The New Yorker, 23 October 2023: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/10/30/chinas-age-of-malaise Jonathan Jones, Earthly Delights: A History of the Renaissance (Thames and Hudson, 2023): https://thamesandhudson.com.au/product/earthly-delights-a-history-of-the-renaissance/  

Almost six months have passed since the release of the Defence Strategic Review (DSR), and this episode Darren is joined by Zack Cooper, Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, for an American perspective on Australia's defence policy. The conversation starts with a basic conceptual model and fundamental tensions with Australia's alliance with the US, before traversing a range of contemporary issues, including AUKUS, the possible re-election of Donald Trump and battlefield lessons from Ukraine. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Zack Cooper, biography: https://www.aei.org/profile/zack-cooper/ Department of Defence, “National Defence: Defence Strategic Review 2023”, April 2023: https://www.defence.gov.au/about/reviews-inquiries/defence-strategic-review Institute for the Study of War: https://www.understandingwar.org/ Binge Mode: Harry Potter (podcast): https://podbay.fm/p/binge-mode-harry-potter  

In an 'emergency' episode, Darren is joined by Ian Hall, a Professor at the Griffith Asia Institute, to discuss the truly explosive revelation made this week by PM Trudeau of Canada that Canadian authorities are pursuing allegations linking agents backed by the Indian government to the murder of a Sikh separatist leader (who was a Canadian citizen) on Canadian soil in June.  Noting this story is still in its early days, Ian describes the complex and troubled history and context to this incident, before the two think through the perspectives of the Indian and Canadian governments, and how third countries like Australia might approach the path forward.  Australia in the World is written, hosted and produced by Darren Lim, with editing by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

The Australian government has launched a new International Development Policy, and Darren is joined by Bridi Rice, CEO of the Development Intelligence Lab, for a discussion of all things development through an Australian lens. The conversation begins with some Development 101: what is “development? What are the goals of development policy and are they contested? How is development policy carried out in practice, and by whom? Bridi describes Australia's development policy community as coming out of a decade in a “defensive crouch” and provides an overview of the new policy. The conversation ranges widely, including a focus on geopolitics and China and the question of how a development policy can place a climate change agenda at its core. Australia in the World is written, hosted and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Bridi Rice, biography: https://www.devintelligencelab.com/team/bridi-rice Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, “Australia's International Development Policy”, August 2023: https://www.dfat.gov.au/development/new-international-development-policy   Eryk Bagshaw, “Ransom attack cripples Vanuatu government systems, forces staff to use pen and paper”, Sydney Morning Herald, 14 November 2022: https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/australia-called-in-to-help-after-hackers-shut-down-vanuatu-government-systems-20221114-p5by7a.html Pat Conroy, Audience Q&A, Development Policy Forum, Australian National University, 12 September 2023: https://ministers.dfat.gov.au/minister/pat-conroy/transcript/audience-qa-development-policy-forum-australian-national-university Stefan Dercon, Gambling on Development: Why Some Countries Win and Others Lose (2022):  https://www.amazon.com/Gambling-Development-Some-Countries-Others/dp/1787385620 Gambling on development, reviewed: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2022/09/14/book-review-gambling-on-development-why-some-countries-win-and-others-lose-by-stefan-dercon/ Gambling on development, presented to an Australian audience at ANU:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3mNwbNDoPg Hania Rani (musician and composer): https://haniarani.com Bluey The Album: https://www.bluey.tv/products/bluey-the-album/

This episode Darren is thrilled to be joined (for the second time) by Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC, perhaps the finest foreign affairs reporter in Australia and a dear friend of the podcast. While the episode commences with the premise of ‘stories that are bubbling beneath the surface', over time a clear theme emerges – the domestic politics of security pacts. The conversation begins with a new agreement between Papua New Guinea and the United States that seems to be delaying Canberra's efforts to conclude its own pact with Port Morseby. Next up is Vanuatu, where Australia was (surprisingly) able to procure the signing of a new security agreement when a new government took office last year, but which is now facing strong ratification headwinds. Meanwhile in Australia, grassroots discontent within the ruling Labor Party regarding AUKUS threatened to overflow at the party's annual conference this past week. The majority of the podcast was recorded on 11 August, with a quick postscript recorded on 20 August.  Australia in the World is written, hosted and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Kenneth Clarke, Civilisation (TV series): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_r9R98DiY Empire (podcast): https://www.goalhangerpodcasts.com/battleground-copy China Power (podcast), ‘China's Influence in Melanesia: A Conversation with Pete Connolly', 2 August 2023: https://www.csis.org/podcasts/chinapower/chinas-influence-melanesia-conversation-pete-connolly Richard Kerbaj, The Secret History of the Five Eyes: The Untold Story of the International Spy Network (review): https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/oct/02/the-secret-history-of-the-five-eyes-untold-story-international-spy-network-by-richard-kerbaj-review Henry Reynolds, Truth-Telling: History, sovereignty and the Uluru Statement, NewSouth Books: https://www.newsouthbooks.com.au/books/truth-telling/

It's time to resume, or start again. A lot has happened in the past four months, and Darren focuses on two big stories, or relationship trajectories: Australia-China, and US-China. Both might be trending in positive directions, but there have been bumps along the way. May the same be said for this podcast into the future! Australia in the World is written and produced by Darren Lim, with research, editing and co-hosting this episode by Walter Colnaghi, and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Penny Wong, “Meeting with China's Director of the Office of the Central Commission for Foreign Affairs Wang Yi - Opening remarks”, 13 July 2023: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/speech/meeting-chinas-director-office-central-commission-foreign-affairs-wang-yi-opening-remarks Alan Tidwell, “The role of ‘diplomatic lobbying' in shaping US foreign policy and its effects on the Australia–US relationship”, Australian Journal of International Affairs, 2017: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10357718.2016.1184620 Celebrating the Life of Allan Gyngell AO, 19 June 1947 - 3 May 2023 (video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej7i_0bqVNM Leonard Cohen, “Come healing”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pKUwTooZ3o DPM Richard Marles' statement ot the House of Representatives, 10 May 2023: https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Hansard/Hansard_Display?bid=chamber/hansardr/26693/&sid=0002 Video (see from 9:01:20am): https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Read_Listen/ParlView/video/1108170 FM Penny Wong's statement to the Senate, 10 May 2023: https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Hansard/Hansard_Display?bid=chamber/hansards/26728/&sid=0055 Video (see from 12:19:40): https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Read_Listen/ParlView/video/1108162 Tim Watts, “Remarks in memory of Allan Gyngell AO”, 11 May 2023: https://ministers.dfat.gov.au/minister/tim-watts/statements/remarks-memory-allan-gyngell-ao Alan Bollard, Economists at war (book): https://global.oup.com/academic/product/economists-at-war-9780198846000?cc=au&lang=en& Rick Astley and Blossoms perform the songs of The Smiths at Glastonbury 2023 (youtube, but audio only): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ6KiHIWnFk

Allan Gyngell passed away on 3 May 2023. Darren talks about the past few weeks, and reads a short piece he wrote for the AIIA about his friend, and the podcast they built together. Relevant links Darren Lim, “Allan Gyngell and ‘Australia in the World'”, 5 May 2023: https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/allan-gyngell-and-australia-in-the-world/ Penny Wong, “Passing of Allan Gyngell AO”, 3 May 2023: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/media-release/passing-allan-gyngell-ao Daniel Flitton, “Remembering Allan Gyngell, ‘the finest mind in Australian foreign policy'”, Lowy Interpreter, 3 May 2023: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/remembering-allan-gyngell-finest-mind-australian-foreign-policy Andrew Tillett, “Allan Gyngell remembered as ‘finest mind' in foreign policy”, Australian Financial Review, 3 May 2023: https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/allan-gyngell-remembered-as-finest-mind-in-foreign-policy-20230503-p5d599   Peter Varghese, “Vale Allan Gyngell AO”, Asialink, 3 May 2023: https://asialink.unimelb.edu.au/stories/vale-allan-gyngell-ao John Blaxland, “Vale Allan Gyngell: A remarkable contributor to Australia's engagement with the world”, The Conversation, 4 May 2023: https://www.themandarin.com.au/219276-allan-gyngell-a-contributor-to-australias-world-engagement/ Kevin Rudd, “Statement on the death of Allan Gyngell AO”, 3 May 2023: https://www.kevinrudd.com/media/statement-on-the-death-of-allan-gyngell-ao Ludovico Einaudi, i giorni (youtube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL1v3KVi6go George Winston, Variations on the Kanon (youtube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2CE5BZVk40

In the wake of Xi Jinping's trip to Moscow to meet Vladimir Putin, Allan and Darren ask – are we in a new Cold War? Is the concept a useful frame for understanding international affairs? We thank Walter Colnaghi for research and audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music. Relevant links “Dr Heather Smith to become National President of the Australian Institute of International Affairs”, AIIA Press release, 17 November 2022: https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/news-item/dr-heather-smith-to-become-national-president-of-the-australian-institute-of-international-affairs/ George Orwell, “You and the atom bomb”, 1945: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/you-and-the-atom-bomb/ Aaron Friedberg, “Why didn't the United States become a Garrison State” (article): https://www.jstor.org/stable/2539189 Aaron Friedberg, In the shadow of the Garrison State (book): https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691048901/in-the-shadow-of-the-garrison-state   “ChinaTalk: Stephen Kotkin on China” (podcast), 23 March 2023: https://www.lawfareblog.com/chinatalk-stephen-kotkin-china George Kennan, “The long telegram” (1946): https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/coldwar/documents/episode-1/kennan.htm “Speech by President von der Leyen on EU-China relations to the Mercator Institute for China Studies and the European Policy Centre”, 30 March 2023: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/speech_23_2063 John Lewis Gaddis, The Long Peace (book): https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-long-peace-9780195043358?cc=au&lang=en& Odd Arne Westad, The Global Cold War (book): https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/global-cold-war/75870878657DC67E0BC70FA7D2388494 Darren Lim and John Ikenberry, “China and the logic of illiberal hegemony”, Security Studies (temporary free download): https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/HGZEHMIG6URDFUCTYCCN/full?target=10.1080/09636412.2023.2178963 Darren Lim and John Ikenberry, “China and the logic of illiberal hegemony”, Ungated paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4244377 John Lewis Gaddis, George F Kennan: An American Life (book): https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/john-lewis-gaddis Norah Jones (Wikipedia page): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norah_Jones

The members of AUKUS have laid out a more concrete plan for Australia to acquire a nuclear-powered submarine capability, and so Allan and Darren offer their views on progress to date, the merits of the overall plan, and what might be ahead. Next, following PM Albanese's state visit to India, the two discuss the significance of the visit for the bilateral relationship, the two countries' respective interests, and some of the challenges (such as human rights) in further deepening ties. Finally, they each offer their thoughts on the “Red Alert” series on the prospect of war with China published by Nine Newspapers. We thank Walter Colnaghi for research and audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music. Relevant links Joint leaders statement on AUKUS, 14 March 2023: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/joint-leaders-statement-aukus Brett Worthington, “Paul Keating savages AUKUS nuclear submarine deal as Labor's worst since conscription”, ABC News, 15 March 2023: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-15/paul-keating-anthony-albanese-penny-wong-aukus-nuclear-china/102098142 Roger Bradbury et al, “Progress in detection tech could render submarines useless by the 2050s. What does it mean for the AUKUS pact?”, The Conversation, 14 March 2023: https://theconversation.com/progress-in-detection-tech-could-render-submarines-useless-by-the-2050s-what-does-it-mean-for-the-aukus-pact-201187 Peter Varghese, “The balance sheet of the nuclear subs deal”, Australian Financial Review, 16 March 2023: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-balance-sheet-of-the-nuclear-subs-deal-20230315-p5csgi Laura Tingle, “Paul Keating can be his own worst enemy but his AUKUS spray raises big questions about China, defence, that have slipped us by”, ABC News, 18 March 2023: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-18/paul-keating-savage-mouth-aukus-questions-china-defence-slipping/102113150 “Is AUKUS flawed by design?” Net Assessment Podcast, 15 March 2023: https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/is-aukus-flawed-by-design/ Joint Statement – 1st Australia-India Annual Summit, 11 March 2023: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/joint-statement-1st-australia-india-annual-summit Peter Hartcher and Matthew Knott, “Red Alert”, Sydney Morning Herald: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/red-alert-20230306-p5cpt8.html Margaret Simons, “‘Pretentious', ‘hyperbolic' and ‘irresponsible': what was behind Nine newspapers' Red Alert series?”, Guaridan Australia, 17 March 2023: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/mar/16/pretentious-hyperbolic-and-irresponsible-what-was-behind-nine-newspapers-red-alert-series Max Seddon, Christopher Miller and Felicia Schwartz, “How Putin blundered into Ukraine — then doubled down”, Financial Times, 23 February 2023: https://www.ft.com/content/80002564-33e8-48fb-b734-44810afb7a49 Come From Away (musical): https://comefromaway.com.au/

Marking one year since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Allan and Darren reflect on what they have learned, what surprised them, and how they each are thinking about the path ahead. We thank Walter Colnaghi for research and audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music. Relevant links “Ukrainian foreign minister responds to Amanpour's 'painful' question about war” (video), CNN, 21 February 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tShC67Xp8m8 Olga Oliker, “Fighting While Female: How Gender Dynamics Are Shaping the War in Ukraine”, Foreign Affairs, 21 November 2022: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/fighting-while-female Dominic Johnson et al, “Overconfidence in wargames: experimental evidence on expectations, aggression, gender and testosterone”, Proceedings of the Royal Society B, Vol. 273, pp. 2513-2520: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2006.3606 China Matters Oration by the Hon Dr Kevin Rudd AC (video), 18 February 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rlrkT8BXlg George Winston, “Summer” (1991): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_(George_Winston_album) Agathe Demarais, Backfire: How Sanctions Reshape the World Against U.S. Interests (Columbia University Press, 2022): http://cup.columbia.edu/book/backfire/9780231199902

The “Chinese spy balloon” has dominated news for the past few weeks and thus Allan and Darren feel compelled to open the episode with their views. FM Penny Wong's speech in the UK sparked controversy for her comments on colonial history, or did it? Meanwhile, a successful 2+2 with France highlighted how far the relationship has come since a low point in late 2020. DM Richard Marles spoke to parliament on the question of sovereignty and defence capabilities, while International Development Minister Pat Conroy wants to see more development specialists in leadership roles at DFAT. We thank Walter Colnaghi for research and audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music. Relevant links “Chinese balloon part of vast aerial surveillance program, U.S. says”, Washington Post, 7 February 2023: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/07/china-spy-balloon-intelligence/ Penny Wong, “TV interview with Michael Rowland, ABC News Breakfast”, 6 February 2023: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/transcript/tv-interview-michael-rowland-abc-news-breakfast Penny Wong, “An enduring partnership in an era of change”, Speech, Centre for Grand Strategy, King's College, London, 31 January 2023: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/speech/enduring-partnership-era-change Hans van Leeuwen, “Why Wong got a walloping in Britain this week”, Australian Financial Review, 3 February 2023: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/why-penny-got-a-pounding-in-britain-this-week-20230203-p5chne Richard Marles, “Securing Australia's Sovereignty”, Statement to Parliament, 9 February 2023: https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/statements/2023-02-09/securing-australias-sovereignty Matthew Knot, “‘AUKUS will enhance sovereignty': Marles dismisses Keating, Turnbull concerns”, Sydney Morning Herald, 8 February 2023: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/aukus-will-enhance-sovereignty-marles-dismisses-keating-turnbull-concerns-20230208-p5cj1q.html   Stephen Dziedzic, “International Development Minister Pat Conroy wants AusAID to regain prominence within DFAT”, ABC News, 9 February 2023: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-09/pat-conroy-dfat-wants-development-specialists-ausaid-/101951876 “Anthony Albanese on navigating an insecure world”, Guardian Australia, Australian Politics Podcast, 4 February 2023: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2023/feb/04/anthony-albanese-on-navigating-an-insecure-world (Podcast Transcript: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/podcast-interview-guardian-australia-politics-podcast ) Annie Ernaux, “The years” (book): https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-years-9781609807870 Jim Chalmers, “Capitalism after the crisis”, The Monthly, February 2023: https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2023/february/jim-chalmers/capitalism-after-crises#mtr Noah Smith, “Vertical communities”, Noahpinion (substack), 27 January 2023: https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/vertical-communities

To kick off 2023, Allan and Darren continue their practice of asking how the events of previous year caused them to update their models of international affairs. But first they discuss PM Albanese's visit to Papua New Guinea and speech to the PNG parliament, and also a curious spat between the ambassadors to Australia from China and Japan, which leads to a larger discussion of different models of ambassador, and what a “Rudd model” might look like now that former PM Kevin Rudd has been named Australia's next ambassador to the United States. We thank Walter Colnaghi for research and audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music. Relevant links Anthony Albanese, “A bond between equals”, Speech to the National Parliament of Papua New Guinea, 12 Jan 2023: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/bond-between-equals Press conference – Port Moresby, PNG and Australian PMs, 12 Jan 2023: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/press-conference-port-moresby Matthew Knot, “Taiwan cannot be sacrificed to China, says Japan's ambassador to Australia”, Sydney Morning Herald, 12 Jan 2023: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/taiwan-cannot-be-sacrificed-to-china-says-japan-s-ambassador-to-australia-20230112-p5cc30.html Embassy of Japan in Australia, Ambassador's speeches, media contributions, interviews: https://www.au.emb-japan.go.jp/itpr_en/ambassador_media_speech.html Tyson Yunkaporta. Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World, Text publishing: https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/sand-talk 14 Peaks: Nothing is impossible (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81464765 Free solo (Disney Plus): https://films.nationalgeographic.com/free-solo

Allan and Darren welcome Tim Watts MP, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs. This is a new role—what does it involve, and how does it contribute to the current global ‘race for influence'? On a personal level, what has the transition into government been like? Given the centrality placed by the Albanese government on identity in Australia's foreign policy, Darren asks the Minister for his perspective on why it matters. The discussion turns to soft power and the moment when newly elected MP Sam Lim's first speech to parliament went viral in Malaysia. The conversation then ranges widely. What did the Minister learn on the balance between regional and global during recent trips to South America and Africa? What is needed to upgrade Australia's “diplomatic fire power”? The point is made that video production skills might be as important as cable writing skills for the modern diplomat! What ideas should Australia be persuading the region about? What does the Minister's diverse and multicultural electorate think of his job? Does foreign policy have a role in strengthening democracy? And how has the Labor government managed to present a unified position on foreign policy so far? Finally, how does the Minister inform himself beyond what comes through government channels?  Relevant links Tim Watts, ‘The Golden Country: Australia's Changing Identity', 2019: https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/the-golden-country-australia-s-changing-identity Clare O'Neil and Tim Watts, ‘Two Futures: Australia at a Critical Moment', 2015: https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/two-futures  Penny Wong, ‘Special lecture to the International Institute for Strategic Studies - A shared future: Australia, ASEAN and Southeast Asia', Singapore, 6 July 2022: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/speech/special-lecture-international-institute-strategic-studies-shared-future-australia-asean-and-southeast-asia Tim Watts, 'Asialink Leaders Summit opening keynote - Australia's place in Asia', Canberra, 16 August 2022: https://ministers.dfat.gov.au/minister/tim-watts/speech/asialink-leaders-summit-opening-keynote-australias-place-asia Joseph S. Nye, ‘Soft Power: The Means to Success in World Politics', 2005: https://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/titles/joseph-s-nye/soft-power/9780786738960/ Sam Lim, ‘First Speech to Parliament', Canberra, 6 September 2022: https://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=588997&operation_mode=parlview Sally Sitou, ‘First Speech to Parliament', Canberra, 26 July 2022: https://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=584964 Tim Watts, ‘First Speech to Parliament', Canberra, 2 December 2013: https://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=212795#/4 National Intelligence Council, ‘Global Trends 2040: A More Contested World', March 2021: https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/GlobalTrends_2040.pdf Clare O'Neil, ‘Home Affairs and the long view - National Press Club Address', Canberra, 8 December 2022: https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/ClareONeil/Pages/national-press-club-address.aspx Dimitri Alperovitch, ‘Geopolitics Decanted': https://geopolitics-decanted.simplecast.com/  Damon Gadget, ‘The Promise', 2022: https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-promise-9781529113877 Kabir Khan, '83', 2021: https://www.netflix.com/title/81144147