Podcasts about deputy secretary

The China-based artificial intelligence model DeepSeek isn't available for widespread use at the Department of Energy, but approval of some elements may be possible following a study by two of its national labs, an agency IT official said Tuesday. DeepSeek's launch has prompted congressional proposals to rein in its use in government and proactive bans by several federal agencies, including DOE. But during a panel at a FedScoop-produced Salesforce event, Bridget Carper — the agency's deputy CIO for architecture, engineering, technology and innovation — said the model has still been studied by two DOE national labs. Carper said the agency allowed two of its labs — which she didn't identify — to look at the system “because there's value in testing the open models. There's value in understanding the performance. How does it actually compare?” The separate labs looked at the model to see if they could do comparisons with alternatives they had, Carper said. Those studies also took place with guardrails. They were controlled, sanctioned and fully documented, she said. And ultimately, they found some potential benefits. The Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Research and Engineering is taking over the “authority, direction, and control” of the Pentagon's Chief Digital and AI Office, according to new guidance issued last Thursday by Deputy Secretary of Defense Stephen Feinberg that presents an accelerated plan to disrupt and transform how the emerging technology is adopted across the Defense Department and military. Feinberg wrote in a memorandum to Pentagon leadership, combatant commanders, and defense agency and DOD field activity directors that “by aligning the CDAO under the USD(R&E), we create a powerful innovation engine that can deliver Al superiority from laboratory to battlefield.” The CDAO had previously been a direct report to the deputy SecDef. DefenseScoop obtained a copy of the directive from a source who requested anonymity to share it last Friday, after others alerted the publication of its creation. A defense official subsequently acknowledged the memo's existence in an email — noting that the CDAO will continue to execute all current statutory responsibilities without interruption during this transition. The defense official said the realignment is “the next step in making a uniform, AI-first push for the [DOD],” adding that it won't create additional review layers or bureaucratic processes. The Daily Scoop Podcast is available every Monday-Friday afternoon. If you want to hear more of the latest from Washington, subscribe to The Daily Scoop Podcast  on Apple Podcasts, Soundcloud, Spotify and YouTube.

U.S. Secretary of AGriculture Brook Rollins made a visit to the Volunteer State Monday. She addressed the 10th annual Tennessee FFA Ham Breakfast at the Tennessee State Fair. Rollins was joined by Deputy Secretary of Agriculture Stephen Vaden. Both Rollins and Vaden also took part in a listening session with Tennessee farmers from across the state, listening to their concerns about the current tough farm economy.

Dr. Tevi Troy, former Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and best-selling presidential historian, on this week’s Torah portion, political commentator George Will’s recent public opinions on socialist New York mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani, President Trump’s peace summit with Russia’s Vladimir Putin, and more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“What Gives Him the Right?” President Trump has temporarily federalized the Washington DC police and sent in ICE agents and National Guard troops to “pursue and arrest every violent criminal in the district who breaks the law, undermines public safety and endangers law-abiding Americans,” according to White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt. The move was welcomed by the DC police union chief who said that the union “supports the President's announcement this morning to assume temporary control of the MPD in response to the escalating crime crisis in Washington, DC.” However, Mayor Muriel Bowser made this cryptic statement: "unsettling and unprecedented." "My message to residents is this: We know that access to our democracy is tenuous," The Daily Signal spoke with former Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security and Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli about the President's actions and the repercussions. Keep Up With The Daily Signal   Sign up for our email newsletters:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.dailysignal.com/email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠     Subscribe to our other shows:    The Tony Kinnett Cast: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AFk8xjiOOBEynVg3JiN6g  The Signal Sitdown: https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL2026390376   Problematic Women:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL7765680741   Victor Davis Hanson: https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL9809784327   Follow The Daily Signal:    X:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://x.com/intent/user?screen_name=DailySignal Instagram:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/thedailysignal/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.facebook.com/TheDailySignalNews/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Truth Social:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://truthsocial.com/@DailySignal⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/dailysignal?sub_confirmation=1    Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and never miss an episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Exclusive Interview with Deputy Secretary of State Chris Landau | Triggered Ep266 Visit http://www.Byrna.com/DonJR to receive 10% off the curated Byrna bundles! --- Protect your savings with Birch Gold. Text DONJR to 989898 and claim your eligibility for free silver today. https://birchgold.com/donjr Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Late last month, President Donald Trump's Environmental Protection Agency proposed rescinding the “endangerment finding" — an Obama-era addition to the Federal Clean Air Act of 1963 that recognized the dangers of climate change. Host Nash Jones sits down Camilla Feibelman, director of the local chapter of the Sierra Club, and Ben Shelton, deputy secretary of the state's Energy, Minerals, and Natural Resources Department, to discuss what the EPA's proposal could mean for greenhouse gas regulations in our state. Later, the two discuss the EPA's decision to extend deadlines for states and the oil and gas industry to comply with methane standards set last year by the Biden administration, and how millions of tons of pollutants that would have been capped now won't be.Podcast Host: Lou DiVizioShow Host: Nash JonesGuests:Ben Shelton, Deputy Secretary, NM Energy, Minerals and Natural Resources DepartmentCamilla Feibelman, Director, Sierra Club Rio Grande Chapter    

U.S. Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, Stephen Vaden, was in Tennessee Friday addressing Tennessee farmers at the Tennessee Farm Bureau County Presidents Conference. Vaden updated on some of the things the Trump administration is doing to boost American agriculture & how he's fighting for them daily at USDA.

Our summer series on "What Is the Right?" has explored the many ideological camps that make up the Right today, from libertarians and traditionalists to fusionists and "FreeCons." In this episode, we explore the intersection of the Jewish faith with conservative thought. Today, antisemitism is on the rise, Israel is at war, and U.S. Republicans are thinking through what an America-First foreign policy should look like. By stepping back and getting a bird's-eye view of how the Jewish community interacts with conservative movement, the contributions of Jewish thought to Western Civilization, and the work Jewish nonprofits are doing, we hope to have a better sense of where to go from here. Two of the thinkers and leaders best positioned to speak to the Jewish conservative intersection are Tevi Troy and Jonathan Silver, who join Peter for this episode. Tevi Troy is a senior fellow at the Ronald Reagan Institute, a Senior Scholar at Yeshiva University's Straus Center, and a former Deputy Secretary of HHS and senior White House aide. Jonathan Silver is the Chief Programming Officer of Tikvah, the editor of Mosaic, and the Warren R. Stern Senior Fellow of Jewish Civilization.

The Senate Agriculture Committee's hearing on the USDA reorganization plan drew a sharp contrast of opinion today between political leaders and Deputy Secretary Judge Stephen Vaden. The Deputy Secretary said the proposed downsizing was smaller than previous administrations and was based on legislation previously approved by Congress. 

CIA Director Bill Burns' past meetings with Jeffrey Epstein have raised serious concerns about the extent of Epstein's influence over powerful government figures. At the time of their encounters in 2014, Burns was serving as Deputy Secretary of State, while Epstein had already been a registered sex offender for six years following his 2008 conviction. Despite Epstein's criminal record and widely known reputation, Burns reportedly met with him multiple times, including at Epstein's townhouse in Manhattan. The alleged purpose of these meetings was to seek career advice on transitioning to the private sector—an explanation that only deepens the discomfort surrounding such a relationship. For a high-ranking diplomat to consult a convicted sex offender for professional guidance signals either shockingly poor judgment or a normalization of Epstein's continued access to the elite.What makes the situation even more troubling is the lack of transparency from government institutions. The CIA has issued vague assurances that the meetings were harmless and limited, but they have not explained why a senior U.S. official would be turning to Epstein for any form of counsel in the first place. Meanwhile, the White House has refused to comment. These evasions come at a time when public trust in the Epstein investigation is already eroded, and they only reinforce the perception that Epstein's true reach into the halls of power is being deliberately downplayed. Rather than distancing themselves, powerful figures like Burns engaged with Epstein long after it was publicly indefensible to do so—a pattern that continues to cast a shadow over the entire investigation.o contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Epstein's Private Calendar Reveals Prominent Names, Including CIA Chief, Goldman's Top Lawyer (msn.com)Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Several agencies under the Trump administration are going through some personnel changes. A top official at the State Department is taking over as the acting head of the General Services Administration, and President Trump is withdrawing his pick for lead of it at the Department of Veterans Affairs amid plans to shrink its tech workforce and budget. Federal News Network's Jory Heckman has more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A win for Kmart workers, whose union says it's secured an industry-leading deal. Worker First Union says it's ratified a two-year pay deal matching the minimum living wage - and rising alongside its increase next year. Deputy Secretary of Retail at Workers First Union, Rudd Hughes, says this deal is a 'gold standard' for retail workers - and he hopes other retailers can follow suit. "It's not that they can't afford not to do it, we've asked for the details of their finances and they've refused to give them to us. The Norman family themselves, since 2017, have gone from $500 million net worth to over $1 billion. The workers certainly haven't had that kind of increase in their wages." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win for Kmart workers, whose union says it's secured an industry-leading deal. Worker First Union says it's ratified a two-year pay deal matching the minimum living wage - and rising alongside its increase next year. Deputy Secretary of Retail at Workers First Union, Rudd Hughes, says this deal is a 'gold standard' for retail workers - and he hopes other retailers can follow suit. "It's not that they can't afford not to do it, we've asked for the details of their finances and they've refused to give them to us. The Norman family themselves, since 2017, have gone from $500 million net worth to over $1 billion. The workers certainly haven't had that kind of increase in their wages." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Tevi Troy, former Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and best-selling presidential historian, on former United Nations (UN) Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick’s foreign policy legacy, the lessened infighting in the second Trump Administration, the “junta” that existed as the Biden Presidency, and the death of presidential advisor David Gergen.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kelsey Barnes is joining fellow Obion County native, Steven Vaden, in our nation's capital at USDA. Vaden was officially sworn is as U.S. Deputy Secretary of Agriculture earlier this week and Barnes is serving as senior advisor to Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins. Barnes describes what it means to her to serve in this roll and how her agriculture roots in Tennessee are helping her.

In this episode of Pekingology, Henrietta Levin, Senior Fellow with the CSIS Freeman Chair in China Studies, is joined by Kurt Campbell, former Deputy Secretary of State and President Biden's “Asia Czar.” He is currently Chairman of The Asia Group and Distinguished Fellow in Diplomacy with the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service. Henrietta and Kurt discuss how Beijing views American power, the development of U.S. strategy towards China, U.S.-China diplomacy and the characters that sat on the Chinese side of the table, and more. To learn more about Kurt Campbell's perspectives on China, you can read his April 2025 Foreign Affairs article, co-authored with Rush Doshi, Underestimating China: Why America Needs a New Strategy of Allied Scale to Offset Beijing's Enduring Advantages, and his 2016 book, The Pivot: The Future of American Statecraft in Asia.

Dr. Kurt Campbell, former Deputy Secretary of State and an architect of the U.S. “Pivot to Asia,” joins the Burn Bag to unpack the strategic crossroads the United States faces in the Indo-Pacific. In a wide-ranging conversation, Campbell discusses the Trump administration's ongoing tariff negotiations with key allies and partners, the shifting contours of U.S.-China competition, and why he believes the United States is underestimating Beijing's long-term scale and capacity. Drawing from his recent Foreign Affairs essay with Rush Doshi, we explore his call for a new strategy of “allied scale” that fuses defense, trade, and technology cooperation. Campbell shares sharp insights on the future of AUKUS, the role of partners such as India, Japan, and Korea, and how the U.S. must adapt its strategy to stay competitive in a region that's central to the 21st century.Read Kurt's Foreign Affairs op-ed (co-authored with Rush Doshi) here.

The announcement by the Dalai Lama that he will have a reincarnated successor when he dies – and that his foundation along will identify the next leader of Tibetan Buddhism – is a major challenge to China, which occupies Tibet. It's also a challenge to the Trump administration, according to a former official. Randall Schriver served as Assistant Secretary of Defence. He says respecting the Dalai Lama's decision will test Donald Trump's commitment to religious freedom.Across Europe, governments are cracking down on clergy associated with the Russian Orthodox Church, accusing them of being propagandists, even spies for the Putin regime. Ukraine has stripped citizenship from the head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, saying he answers to Moscow. Estonia has just passed a law forcing the local Orthodox to cut ties with Russia. It's also accused a group of nuns of spying. Just how deep does suspicion of the church run? He was the charismatic preacher in the sharp suit and flashy car, who preached personal purity – until he came undone in a sex scandal. Jimmy Swaggart was a global institution in the 1980s. He died a few days ago. GUESTS:RANDALL SCHRIVER served as Assistant Secretary of Defence in the Trump administration and Deputy Secretary of State in the Bush administration. He's currently the Chairman of the Institute for Indo Pacific Security in Washington DC. And co-authored China wants to pick the next Dalai Lama. Will democracies let it?ANDREW RETTMAN is a senior correspondent for the EU Observer.  He's written extensively about espionage and the Russian Orthodox Church.Dr LEAH PAYNE is a historian of charismatic Christianity at George Fox University and author of the book about Jimmy Swaggart God Gave Rock & Roll to You. This program was made on the land of the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation

From his century farm in Union City to now the second in command at the U.S. Department of Agriculture in Washington DC, Stephen Vaden says its been surreal to be sworn-in as deputy secretary.

President Trump's new tariffs on Japan and South Korea could challenge U.S. corn export sales. Judge Stephen Vaden was sworn in today as Deputy Secretary of USDA. 

Listen in to Steve's enlightening conversation with Deputy Secretary Faulkender about the U.S. economy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it take to lead at every level and shape the leaders of tomorrow? SUMMARY Long Blue Line podcast host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 sat with Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman '95, the U.S. Air Force Academy's vice superintendent, for a deep dive into leadership, humanity and building a world-class service academy. This episode is packed with wisdom for aspiring, emerging, and seasoned leaders alike.   SHARE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   GEN. SHERMAN'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS  - Leadership is a human experience - focus on connecting with and caring about people.  - Love what you do and love the people you lead; passion inspires others to follow you.  - Embrace failures and challenges as opportunities for personal growth and development.  - Set the right culture and values within your team to build trust and mutual support.  - Be present and engaged with your team, understanding their motivations and experiences.  - Leadership is about more than rank or position - it's about earning genuine trust and respect.  - Invest time in understanding different generations, cultural nuances, and individual perspectives.  - Balance professional excellence with personal growth and life experiences.  - Support your team's development by providing encouragement and holding them accountable.  - Your legacy is built through individual interactions and the positive impact you have on people's lives.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Major General Thomas P. Sherman 01:29 Choosing Leadership Over Flying 07:23 The Impact of Mentorship and Values 12:46 Heritage and Evolution of Security Forces 17:43 Personal Growth in Aviano, Italy 24:17 The Importance of Work-Life Balance 29:50 Culminating Command Experience at Bagram 42:25 The Role of Family in Leadership 51:29 Continuous Self-Improvement as a Leader 56:27 Embracing Failure as a Growth Opportunity 01:00:06 Legacy and the Impact of Leadership   ABOUT GEN. SHERMAN BIO Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman is the Vice Superintendent of the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, CO. He is serving as the chief operations officer to the Superintendent and overseeing the Academy's blend of military training, academics, athletics, and character development for cadets. Gen. Sherman commissioned in 1995 from the Academy with a Bachelor of Science in Political Science. He built a distinguished career as a security forces officer. He's held command at nearly every level. His key assignments include leadership of the 88th Air Base Wing at Wright-Patterson AFB and critical staff positions at the Pentagon. In May 2024, Gen. Sherman was tapped to serve as the Academy's Vice Superintendent   CONNECT WITH GEN. SHERMAN LINKEDIN     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS       TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest, Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman '95  |  Host, Lt. Col. (ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:00 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99 today. I'm joined by a leader whose career has taken him from the flight line to the halls of Congress and now back to the very institution that launched it all. Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman currently serves as vice superintendent of the Air Force Academy, where he plays a critical role in guiding the development of our future officers and ensuring the Academy remains a world class institution for leadership, character and Day 1 readiness to win the future fight. A 1995 Academy graduate, Gen. Sherman has spent nearly three decades serving in key operational, strategic and command roles. He's led at every level, from squadron to wing command, and his assignments have included everything from nuclear security enterprise to homeland defense, policy development at the Pentagon, and legislative affairs at the highest levels of the Department of the Air Force. Prior to his role as vice superintendent, Gen. Sherman served in the Office of the Deputy Secretary of Defense, where he was a principal military assistant leading policy integration across joint staff, interagency services and combatant commands. He's perhaps best known in command circles for leading the 88th Air Base wing at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, one of the largest and most complex wings in the Air Force, with a focus on people first, leadership and mission excellence. Gen. Sherman, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad you're here too.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  01:32 It is great to be here. Thank you.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:33 We're excited and we're going to dive right in, because I think what is so special for our listeners is really hearing these moments that have changed your life. I'd like to start at the Academy. You turned down a pilot slot. You were rated, but said no.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  01:48 Well, actually it was a little bit before that. You know, it's kind of interesting, because that was the draw that brought me here, is I just had this incredible passion to want to fly, and I love flying, and I truly enjoyed it, especially through all the different airmanship programs and things like and things like that we had here. The experiences were fantastic. But, you know, as I was starting to learn more about myself going through the Academy, I was starting to feel my heart getting pulled in a direction of wanting to really lead people and really spend a lot of time working with the enlisted. And I think that came from a couple different areas. I think it was some really unique exposure that I got during my ops Air Force time, which I went to Ramstein Air Base in Germany, during ops, and just had our action officer that worked this, I think just did a phenomenal job. And I really started getting pulled to what was then called security police. That is actually when Laurie and I got together and started dating, because Laurie is here in Colorado Springs, but she grew up as an Air Force brat. My father-in-law is a retired Chief Master Sgt., and so there was a lot of mentorship that was taking place around dining room table when I was a young cadet. And I think one of the things that her parents really taught me was just the value of the enlisted force, and so I was feeling my heart really getting pulled. And so obviously, there's a conundrum. There's a conundrum on what were the root desires that brought me here — what were the things that I was learning as a cadet, my joy of flying, and also, particularly the culture at that time, was that that was really the job that you needed to aspire to be, that was the expectation of cadets. And so then to really kind of run counter to that strong current was really kind of a unique, you know, almost unnavigated area, right? And so to really kind of take the story out to its next level is that I'd really gotten to a point where talking with people there — we hadn't had the AMT program, but there were these NCOs that were kind of tangentially attached to cadet squadrons. And so I got a chance to talk to one of the master sergeants that was there who was a maintainer by background. And I was kind of pouring my heart out to him on, you know, what had I been talking to him with my now in-laws, about where was my heart pulling me? And so he said, ‘Give me just a second.' And he picked up the phone, and he called my AOC and he goes, ‘Hey, you're gonna be there for a little while.' And this was a Friday afternoon. He said, ‘I got a cadet that needs to come talk to you.' And he hangs up the phone and he goes, ‘Now you go tell your AOC what you just told me.' And so I ended up going to my AOCs office that day, and we had about a two-hour conversation about this. I sat down and really, kind of took the time to explain to him what was I feeling, And obviously, I really try to see the best in people. And so I think from a noble place, he was doing his best to convince me that I was making a grave mistake. And went on to talk to me about what his concerns were, the career field that I was looking at, things along those lines. And we can save that conversation for another time, but I think really where the foundation came in is where we started to talk about leadership. And you know, what I was asking him to do was to pull my rated recommendation form, so we had just submitted them, and I was asking him to pull my rated recommendation form. I didn't want to compete for it anymore. And so we started to talk about leadership. And he says, ‘Hey, Cadet Sherman, you need to understand that leadership in this Air Force is being the lead F-16 pilot on a bombing run, you know, putting iron on target.' And that's true. It's a very important part of leadership. It is a very important part of tactical operational leadership in this Air Force. So he's not wrong in that space. But I was looking at it from a different lens, and I was looking at it, I think, on a larger level. And what I don't think he realized is that 30 seconds before I walked into his office, he set me up for success. I just happened to be waiting outside the office, and all of a sudden, I looked on his cork board, and somebody, and I don't know who it was, had pinned a note that was written to Airman Magazineby an airman first class. And this airman first class titled this, “I need a leader.” And this A1C felt so strongly about what they were feeling — and I have no idea who this person was — felt so strongly about it that they put pen to paper, and this would have been the fall of 1994, and sent this into Airman Magazine, and it says, “I need a leader.” Commissioning sources. ‘Send us lieutenants that we can look up to that will hold us accountable when we do wrong, that will encourage us when we do well, that will be an example that we can look up to, that will care about us as human beings, because you are not sending them to us now. Air Force, I need a leader.' Like that 30 seconds just before I walked into his office — that changed my life, and it changed my life, because for me, at that moment, what I was getting ready to go ask my AOC to do, what I was looking at inside myself, that became my charge. And so as we spoke, you know, 20-year-old Cadet First Class Sherman — I might have been a 21-year-old at the time — Cadet First Class Sherman pushed back on my AOC, and I said, ‘Sir, I disagree.' I said, ‘I want to be that guy. I want to be that guy that that A1c is asking for on your cork board outside, because that's leadership in this Air Force.' And so, to his credit, he said, ‘Hey, I want you to go think about this over the weekend. You know, think about what you're doing. Come back to me on Monday. No questions asked. I'll pull it if you want me to.' And I left there, and I remember feeling like, not like a weight had been lifted off my shoulder, but I almost felt like this sense of like, ‘Now I've got my purpose,' because that little article has shaped me my entire career, and I mean to this day, and at a scale. You know, as a lieutenant, my scale is this big on what I'm affecting to help do and be what that A1C needs to a wing commander. I always keep it in the back of my head, and after all of these years, I am still thinking about, Am I doing right by that A1C that 31 years ago, felt so strongly about something that they wrote a note to Airman Magazine, and that became my charge.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:09 That is incredibly powerful. I'm a little bit without words, because I'm thinking about, first off, being brave enough to disagree with an AOC. I mean, I think that takes courage in showing your leadership there. Were you always like that? Have you always been someone that is steadfast in a decision and being able to kind of speak out?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  08:30 So I get that from my parents. And, you know, I grew up in Corona, California. My mom and dad are amazing people. And we didn't grow up with a lot of money, and we grew up from a pretty meager background, and my mom and dad had made a decision early on in their marriage, when they had my sister and I, that my mom was going to focus to make sure that Nancy and I got an education, and my dad was going to work as many jobs as he had to to put food on the table. And sometimes my dad was holding down three jobs to make sure that we had nutritious food to eat, and my mom was working miracles to make sure that we were fed well, but that also that she was dedicated and had the time to volunteer for things like PTA, being involved as a class volunteer, making sure that we were involved in things and had exposure to things that what they did was they also instilled in me this really strong blue collar work ethic. And it was this aspect of, if I just roll up my sleeves and put in the work, anything is possible. And so on that line, this young kid growing up with a West Coast father and an East Coast mother, and just this, really neat family background that things for me, that I believed in I would go after with all of my heart and soul. And so I found out about the Academy when I was 12 years old. And so, you know, when I at 12 years — we were going to a community event there in Corona, and there was an officer recruiter — Capt. Craig. was her name — and we started talking. She says, ‘Hey, did anybody talk to you about the Air Force Academy?' And I said, ‘No, this sounds great.' So from there, I just made this decision as a 12-year-old, and I worked all the way through junior high and high school to get here, because to go to your point like, ‘I made a decision, I'm gonna see this thing through.'   Naviere Walkewicz  10:30 Whoa. OK, so you knew you were going to the Academy before you graduated high school.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  10:35 Yes, in my mind, there was no other option.   Naviere Walkewicz  10:39 And so anyone in your family serve, or were you the first one in your family to serve?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  10:43 So I am the first officer and career member of the family. My dad was drafted and went to Vietnam in 1967 and stayed through Tet of 1968. I had an uncle, Harry Lee Schmidt, who was a C-47 loadmaster in World War II and Korea, and my grandfather was actually a part of the initial kind of what was the foundation of the OSS and the Navy doing beach recon on beaches in the South Pacific, prior to island hopping campaign and island landings. And so there was this real heritage of service, right? Just not career service. But even then, as a kid, I always had in my mind, ‘OK, one way or another, I'm going to serve, and if I do an enlistment and then go to college afterwards —' but I had this idea that, ‘OK, I'm going to serve,' and then all of a sudden, this became this amazing conduit that got me here, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  11:38 And they also had ties to aviation. How did they feel about your decision, your family?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  11:43 It was interesting, because they knew how passionate I was about aviation growing up. I mean, we did not miss an air show at March Air Force Base, the Chino air show, which was planes of fame, which was all historic aircraft. I volunteered as a high school student to work there, and we helped restore airplanes with me and my friends. You know, it was interesting, because my parents were very supportive in ‘OK, where's your heart leading you? And, what makes you feel so strongly about this?' Because when I first talked to him on the phone, I called him from Ramstein Air Base and said, ‘Hey, I think I know what I want to do in the Air Force. I want to go to security police. And my mom was like, ‘What's that? And, so, as time went by and I explained it, I think my parents probably all along knew that that was probably going to be a very good fit. And then after commissioning and at my first assignment, I think that they were certain of it, right? Yeah, they were absolutely certain.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:37 That is amazing. Well, I want to dive into this profession a bit, because it's interesting. You know, you've mentioned, when you came in, it was security police, and, security forces and you hear people saying defenders and peacekeepers. So there's this lineage and this heritage. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that and then maybe lead us into that next transformational moment that you might have had in this role?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  12:58 OK, I'm very proud of the fact that, you know, I am part of an ever decreasing group of folks that came in when we were still security police, and that was really still the peacekeeper days, because this was all kind of the follow on on the Cold War. The peacekeepers were our cold warriors and that was a huge part. Our defenders came in and really, that name started to really grow in 1997 when the name changed from security police to security forces, and we were actually going back to some of our heritage that was in Operation Safeside, which was the combat security police squadrons in Vietnam. So when you think about the courage that was displayed during the Tet Offensive at places like Tan Son Nhat that those were safe side warriors that were a part of these combat security police squadrons. And so the very — part of the lineage of the very beret, and flash that we have is actually a tip of the hat to the lighter blue berets, and that flash with the Falcon and the crossed runways that goes back, actually, to our Safeside heritage days. The beret goes back even farther than that. It goes back to Strategic Air Command, Elite Guard back in the 1950s. So it's this great lineage. And so, you know, for me, part of it was like when I got my first beret, wow, that meant something to me. And then, you know, as we then kind of transformed along the way, and this amazing career field grew, and the aspects of this air based ground defense, which was really, I would say, was kind of the draw that got me into wanting to go into security police, was I really liked this idea of, ‘How do we do base defense?' The law enforcement side was intriguing to me, but it was based defense that just had me just had me captivated.   Naviere Walkewicz  14:44 And was that something that you found out early in your career? After you graduate the Academy, you're now in security police. Is that when you kind of realized, ‘This is where I want to go in, air, base, ground defense.'?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  14:54 It even happened at ops. So as we were spending time with the security police squadron, I ended up spending time with a captain who was heading up the Elite Guard, and there was an interaction we had as I was doing a ride along. He's like, ‘Hey, you need to come see me.' And so I went and met up with him, and he took me around and introduced me to all of his airmen that were part of the guard. He knew something all about them. And then we went to his office and talked, and he had gone to Ranger School and Airborne and things like that, and said, ‘Hey, like, the future of the career field is actually us looking to the past.' And really kind of got me fired up on what we call back then, air base ground defense. So when I got to McChord — McChord Air Force Base was my first duty station. And the great thing about going to AMC first is it AMC is a mobility — I mean, it is all about mobility and the operations associated with it. And so the first thing that that my task was as the second lieutenant in that squadron was, I was the air base ground defense flight commander. So that was, I mean — we would go out to Fort Lewis, and we would bivouac for days. And I had, you know, a 44 person team that was a base defense sector. I had specialized K-9 units heavy weapons. And back in those days, we had 81mm mortar teams and fire direction centers that we would set up. So I just got completely on board with the air base defense piece. And so that was that was very passionate for me, which then made the next step to Korea an absolutely logical next location, going to the wolf pack at Kunsan, not only getting a chance to then stand up Gwangju as a part of the first Air Expeditionary Unit to go back to Korea since the Korean War, but then doing the mobile reserve aspect of it. And it was just a great assignment.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:40 Wow. So you were right in from the very beginning. You got kind of just into it all.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  16:45 So when we go back, when you were talking to me about, ‘Hey, when you make your mind up...' So I had this five-year plan built out. And, you know, my five-year plan was ‘OK, I'm gonna do my first assignment at the first opportunity to PCS. I need to go remote. I need to go to Korea. And then, OK, how can I get another overseas assignment after that? And then what do I need?' So the thought was, “Let me get to as many match comms as I can, as fast as I can in my career, and use that as a place — OK, because I want to build my experience base out. Because even as a lieutenant and young captain, I didn't want to come across as a one-trick pony. So my thought was, “Let me just get as much as I could under my belt early on.' And so after I left Kunsan, I ended up going to Aviano Air Base in Italy, which, for me, when you look at like those moments in life that are transformational, this was transformational on a different level. You know, some assignments you go to are very much professional growth assignments. This assignment, for me, was very much a personal growth assignment.   Naviere Walkewicz  17:52 OK, so tell me more.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  17:55 I mean, when you think about it, four years at USAFA, very uniquely focused on a plate that is overflowing with things that you need to get done. So you are, you're focused on, you know, everything from grades to military training to all of those things. And then I get to my first base, and I am just working, and I'm volunteering for everything, and we have got a heavy ops tempo of exercises and things like that. And my leadership was fantastic, because they were throwing me into every opportunity I could. And then, boom, I go to Korea, and that is a unique warfighting focused — and at Kunsan especially was heavily warfighting focused. So now all of a sudden I am spending really, when you think about it, the last almost seven years being uniquely focused on mission, right? And so I get to Aviano Air Base, Italy, and the first thing that happens is Operation Allied Force kicks off. So I get there in January, boom. Allied Force kicks off. I think it was in end of February, beginning of March. And wow, what? Again, what an amazing, mission focused experience. And then after we finished up Allied Force and the base returned back to more of its steady-state standpoint, it was the Italians that took me under their wings, that because I made a specific choice, because I grew up — my mom's side of the family are all Italian immigrants — and I was always at my Nonnie and Papa's house, and there was just a lot of that growing up, which is that whole, like, you know, West Coast dad, East Coast mom thing, but I didn't know, you know, my mom and her brothers never spoke Italian. And there was a lot of that, that thought back in those days that, you know, ‘Hey, we're here to be American, so we're going to learn English, and we're not going to speak, you know, the language that we came from,' right? And so my mom and her brothers really never learned to speak Italian. And so my thought was, ‘Gosh, I grew up with this as such a strong part of my childhood that I need to put myself in a position where I can learn the language and start to kind of get an appreciation on the culture. Together.' And so I specifically — and really lucked out on a location, but I was about 20 kilometers away from Aviano. I was in an amazing town. I was the only American living in the complex that I was in. So I was like, ‘If I'm going to learn, I need to just dive in the way that you do, in the way that I do, and just start learning.' And so I ended up kind of building this support group of Italian families that all kind of took me under their wings.   Naviere Walkewicz  20:27 Wait, I have to ask you a question, because back when you're at the Academy, you said you spoke to your now in-laws. So was Laurie not a part of this?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  20:35 So Laurie and I, right. So that's an important part of the story. Laurie and I dated for two years while I was a cadet, and when I was in tech school, her and I made the very difficult decision — and as painful it was — to part ways, so her and I actually parted ways for a few years. I was single at the time. Laurie was still here in Colorado Springs, and I was getting a lot of assignments under my belt, which, to be honest with you, you know, in retrospect, it was very fortunate, because I may not have made the same assignment choices had I been married at the time. And because I wasn't married, there were no other variables that I needed to factor in, other than personal experience goals, right, that I wanted to play into, and so I could just put down whatever assignment I wanted, and that allowed me the opportunity to just focus on job. And while Laurie and I stayed in touch, and I stayed in touch with her parents over the years, I was in Aviano, and her and I were not together at that point,   Naviere Walkewicz  21:39 That makes sense. I was like, why were you alone in Italy?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  21:43 It's a fair question. But I also think that being single in that environment allowed me — and that's where I think it helped me develop as a person. And so there are a lot of, I think, really wonderful things that happened during that time, and that was because I was so uniquely mission focused. It was these, this amazing group of Italian friends together, that really kind of taught me about there, there's a time to relax, you know, there's a time to work, there's a time to relax, and there's also a real human need to enjoy life and enjoy time together, which is quintessentially Italian. And so, as my pool of this, these amazing people — that  by the way, for the last 25 years, we've been going to visit. It's the same families that took me under their wings when I was a lieutenant, are the same families that were all tuning in as we were doing a live stream of me pinning on my second star. And so I've never been stationed anywhere else in my career where I felt more at home. And so I think this sense of like, ‘Wow. This like independently as my own person, this feels like home.' And as time went by and I started to get an appreciation for actually things that were a part of my childhood. Because, you know, we would have these long, huge meals, we would spend four or five hours at the table as a family. And for me, this was all normal. Well, that was also a part of kind of normal Italian life and normal Italian culture. You're not going out to dinner with your friends unless you're investing at least three hours at the restaurant. But for me, this was all — this felt normal to me. And so it was about, you know, you don't need to eat your food in five minutes.   Naviere Walkewicz  So contrary to USAFA, by the way.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN You know, you don't need to chew no more than seven times and swallow. So it was about experiencing that, and learning even just some things that became personal passions. Like, you know, how wine is made and why wine pairing matters, and how is this process? And so all of a sudden, this personal experience — and I think growing as a human being was taking place there, and I was maturing as a human being because I had gotten all of this phenomenal job experience under my belt, but this was where I was growing as a human being. And you know what's interesting, as time has gone by, I have noticed just how impactful that time was, because there are things that I've noticed, even as a senior officer, that I feel very strongly about, that I don't think I felt as strongly about as a junior officer, and it was because of that experience, and it was the aspect of when people are on leave, let's let them take leave. There is a part of the human experience that you need to enjoy time with people that you care about, because what it does is you're not slacking off from work. You're not leaving everybody hanging. What's happening is that, because you're taking some time to just enjoy life with people you care about, when you come back, the restorative effects that have taken place because you simply breathe and you enjoyed what it was that you were doing and whatever your passion was, you know, unencumbered, you could enjoy that. And we all realize that there are times, especially as you get into positions of authority, that, hey, they're going to need to call you periodically. But what was interesting is that, especially, I mean, I'll give an example as a wing commander. As a wing commander, despite realizing how important that mission is and how big Wright-Patt was, we, Laurie and I took leave, and we took two weeks of leave, and we went back to Italia and visited our friends and enjoyed life, because the culture helps us to slow down. But what it also did is I gave my staff some parameters. ‘Hey, here are the things that I think are important, like on a scale of one to 10. Here are the things that I think are an eight. So an eight or higher, call me. Don't text me.' I said, ‘Physically call me, because I will answer the phone knowing it's for — and then you have my undivided attention.' But what it also does is it means that my vice wing commander who is there, that I am empowering my vice wing commander and showing to everybody else I trust this leader to lead this wing in my absence. And if it's something that really needs my involvement, they'll get a hold of me. But I think our junior leaders need to see that at the senior most levels, that I can physically trust and emotionally trust my vice, my deputy, to hold things down while I'm gone, and that I'm not irreplaceable, and that if I did my job as a leader, I set the conditions that allowed the wing to thrive in my absence, and didn't mean that the wing had to hang on every decision I made or every word that I said, that I set the conditions that allowed them to be successful and fostered the leadership that allowed them to lead in my absence. And I felt great while I was gone, because I knew the people that we had there, and I knew the investment that we made in them. So that was kind of a long, you know, trip around this…   Naviere Walkewicz  27:26 I mean, I think it was so powerful that you kind of learned that about yourself in Italy. And then would you say that there was anyone that you saw emulating that? Or was it just something over time, you developed this realization that you need to enjoy life and you need to allow people the space to do so.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  27:43 So I would say the people that I was emulating in that aspect were a lot of the families that were there. I have been fortunate that I have worked for some commanders who, at different times in their life felt the same way. Conversely, I also worked for commanders that did not feel the same way. And, you know, an interesting case in point on something that on an experience I had in a command bill and after I had left Aviano — this is when Laurie and I were back together; we were married at this point. I had a group commander that was frustrated about me taking leave and called me every day at 1500; every day at 1500 I got a telephone call. And you know what that does is now all of a sudden, you're eating lunch, and the clock is getting closer to 1500 and you start to get that knot in your stomach and you're like, ‘OK, what are we going to talk about today?' And so, unfortunately you don't see some of the same appreciation for that across the board. So how do we deal with it? The best thing that we deal with it is that that's where the buck stops. We don't pass it down to our people. So after I got the call from him, I didn't call back to the squadron. I got the call from him. We went through the call, we answered the questions, and I didn't then immediately turn around and call back to my ops officer who was running the Squadron at the time, and say, XYZ. And we just left it there, because at that point in time, the bucks got to stop it at that point. So I think that that's kind of the, you know, the alpha and the omega of learning and then also having your own personal resilience and courage to say, ‘I accept that the buck stops here, and I'm not going to let this roll downhill to my people.'   Naviere Walkewicz  29:41 That's an excellent leadership lesson, because I was going to ask you, ‘What does that look like, and how would you how would you handle that?' And so you went right into that. Thank you so much for that. So what has it been like leading security forces — defenders? What's it been like? Has there been a moment in time where — a particular assignment or something's really stuck into your mind or into your heart, because it's just really affected you?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  30:05 Absolutely. I will tell you, as we go back, as we were kind of talking about decisions that you make in your youth, and that critical decision that I made in the fall of '94 I mean, I have worked with some of the most amazing people I've worked in my life. I have gotten a chance to go to places I never thought that I would see. And so, when you kind of roll up, I would say it was my final squadron command, and I would say that that was a real culminating squadron command. So I commanded four squadrons, and we command early, and we command often, and there's a lot of responsibility that that's placed on us as young officers to command as a young officer. And so having the opportunity to command two times as a captain, or one time, you know, as a major-select, then as a major, then as a lieutenant colonel. So that culminating command would have been Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan in May of 2012 to May of 2013 and you know, it was interesting because all of my previous squadron commands had all been vested in either the contingency response or the kind of combat contingency environments. And it was almost like all of those were leading me to this moment. So let me just kind of set the conditions on what Bagram was like at that point in time. We had grown the squadron to about a 1,200-person squadron, huge squadron. And what we were also responsible for is we had taken over battle space ownership from the Army. So the Air Force was controlling 220 square miles of battle space throughout Parwan province, which is a huge. I mean, it's twice the size of Washington, D.C., if you want to try to give a comparison, more or less is fair to look at that level as just a huge amount of terrain in which our airmen were responsible from everything from humanitarian operations and goodwill outreach to engagements to literal kinetic action and combat in the battle space. And so a part of this culmination was, was an environment where as the defense force commander — as that squadron commander to them as a lieutenant colonel at that point — I mean how we are weaving ourselves into their lives, and how we are working with their section commanders, and how we're working and managing the value of our perimeter defenses with our teams that were going outside of the wire doing legitimate patrolling and engagement and things along those lines, was huge. And I think that that is an example. And when you look in the rearview mirror to say, ‘Gosh, now this, a lot of this makes sense, like all of these assignments, whether by design or whether by fate, somehow gave me an experience that at this moment, I needed it most.' And I think, as I talk, we've really enjoyed being here with the cadets and talking to them about, how does a leader really develop trust, and how does trust really manifest itself? And so, through the time that we were there, and the engagement as their leader — not just the leader who's just simply circulating, because that's important, but they also need to see your decision making and your strategic thought. And how do you react under pressure? How are you reacting as we've got incoming in, and what do you do being the person in the joint defense operations center, helping to manage that, and how are you both taking care of people, and how are you managing mission? And they see that. And so I would say that the development of that level of trust, especially in an environment where you are literally dealing with high costs, is huge. And so I think there was one, situation that really rests on my heart that and I don't talk about this to give validation, but I think I talk about it on it's about how people connect, and why do I feel so strongly that leadership is a human experience, like this is a what we are doing as a human experience. And so I was retiring my chief. So I was asked by my chief at Bagram — this was some years later. He's out of the 105th Base Defense Squadron out of the New York Air National Guard, and him and I were a phenomenal team there. Dave Pritchard and I just made a great team. And so he was retiring, and asked me to come back and do his retirement. So we had done the retirement ceremony. We were at the VFW afterwards, having his after-party and so forth. And so I had gone into the bathroom for a comfort break and washed my hands and things like that. And I noticed, as I was kind of moving towards the bathroom, there was kind of a young man who was kind of floating. You know, floating around. And so I came out of the restroom as I was finished, and he was waiting there at the exit of the restroom for me, and kind of, you know, got in front of me, and he stood there, and he looked at me, and he goes, ‘Hey, sir, I just, I needed to let you know this, that I was one of the airmen in one of your patrols that got hit by an IED, and he said, your investment in us, and the words that you used and when you came to talk to us, and the faith that you had in us gave me the courage to go back outside of the wire when you asked us to go back outside.' And so why that rests so heavy is when you think about what, what is the what is the con? The consequence there is that somebody believed in you so much that when you spoke to them and said the word, they were going to go back out and do it again, in spite of what had just happened to you. And I don't think there is any stronger level of trust that you can ask from somebody than to have one of those moments. And so that moment just resides very, very heavy on my soul, because I think it puts into real, tangible context, what is the responsibility of leadership? What is your responsibility of leadership?   Naviere Walkewicz  36:42 I'm letting that sit a little bit, because I can't even imagine the amount of feeling that you had first for him, the courage to share that with you. Because I'm sure that he really wanted to share that. I'm curious if you can remember perhaps, what he might have been referring to, like what you were sharing with the men and women there.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  37:02 So, you know, it was also a part of things that, in times after Bagram have really been used for me as a senior leader on why I reinforced the importance of values. And, this was one particular incident there that really comes to mind is, and I use this when I when I talk to people, because I again, it's the consequence, and it's why our responsibility as leaders to set the right conditions and culture and all of that is so incredibly valuable. And so I talked to people about a story about we had had a situation where we had some real destabilization in the battle space. There was a particular village that we were having some unique challenges with, and we were doing a lot of kind of battlefield shaping, and we were doing some particular village engagement, and the engagement just wasn't happening. And so we were now kind of starting to escalate our interaction with the village a little bit more and as we were doing that, we were now going to start doing more shaping operations. So it just so happens that one of these nights —this was in the late fall, early winter of 2012 — and we were sending one of our patrols outside to do some shaping and engagement operation there. But this was in the evening. This was a different aspect that we were working for this particular mission. And so mounted up that the airmen are ready to go. They're pushing outside, they're right on time, and everything is going according to plan, and they are getting close to what we call the objective rally point. So that was where they were going to rally up before they actually moved into the village after that. And so everything was going according to plan. And the only thing they needed to do before they got to the objective rally point was really kind of go down a small gully over a rise, and then they meet at their objective rally point at that point. And so teams are moving out. First truck over the rise, getting to the point. Second truck over, everything's going fine. Third truck over, fourth truck after that, BOOM, off goes the IED. And what had happened is, they were waiting for this opportunity, and they knew exactly what to do. And that is, if you hit the last truck in the movement, you've got three trucks that are gone ahead of time, and now we've got folks in a very precarious situation. And so what I talk to people about, when we talk about conditions and the real impact that a leader has, is I'll talk to them about who was in that truck, who was in that MRAP that we were sending down at that point in time. And inside that MRAP was the face of America. And the explosion was significant, and it did some considerable damage. It threw the engine out of it, penetrated the hole, ripped one of the doors off the side in the front. And so, you know, the truck commander was National Guard from, actually from Tennessee, and he had gotten injured, broken an arm because that door had peeled back. And as the door peeled back, his arm got caught and broke his arm. The driver, Asian American coming out of the state of California, active duty. He had injuries to his legs because of the penetration of the hole. We had a gunner up in the turret, African American female from the New York Air National Guard. She had a broken pelvis at the time, and she just stayed on the gun the entire time despite her injuries. We had our radio operator. European American female coming from the Midwest. She was actually Air Force Reserve. She had a case of TBI from the explosion, and she was still making calls on the radio. We had two of our riflemen in the back, both came from Hispanic heritage, one of them from Puerto Rican heritage, one of them from Mexican heritage. They were very fortunate that while they got tossed around the back and had some minor TBI issues, they were more or less bumps and bruises, and they were all by themselves. Yeah, because they were all alone, they were in the middle of Afghanistan, they had just gotten hit. And so for me, what's so important about that story is that if we did not set the right culture and the right values and the right expectations and be in a leader by example, and they were harassing each other on Bagram, and they were assaulting each other on Bagram, and they weren't respecting each other on Bagram, and they didn't care about each other on Bagram, they would have died out there that night. But they treated each other like a family, and they cared about each other like a family, and they took care of each other like a family that night, and they lived and they all came home. So for me, if we're going to talk about what is the true consequence of leadership — and I use consequence deliberately, because oftentimes that's used in a pejorative manner — but this is the true result of your actions, that if you don't set those conditions, then you are legitimately putting your people at risk. And so that whole experience at Bagram, and in so many ways that we all carry our scars and our bruises and things like that. I wouldn't trade that experience for the world, but that was tough. And I often describe it as a tale of two cities. You know, it was the best of times. It was the worst of times.   Naviere Walkewicz  42:34 I think a lot of times, when leaders go through experiences like that, they have some more fortunate than others, but a support network. And I would guess it would be your family. How has your family played a role in these moments in your life, in helping you as a leader?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  42:54 So I will say it's primarily my wife. I have got this wonderful support of parents and my in-laws and so forth. And what's been truly fortunate is how close I am with my in-laws. Because when Laurie and I were dating while I was a cadet, anytime I had an overnight or weekend pass, I was over at her mom and dad's house and so I think that being married to somebody that has truly known you from the beginning, you know, where, whether we got a training weekend going on, or something like that, or I'm working first BCT or whatnot, that Laurie was a unique part of all of these things. And I would say that it has been incredibly heartwarming to watch her interact with the cadets here, because it's fun, because her and I do everything together. And so as we're going to events, I'll have a group of cadets that I'm talking to, and then I'll look over and Laurie's surrounded by a group of cadets who are asking her just very insightful questions about our experiences together, and ‘Was it tough sending them away on deployments?' Or how, you know, in those tough times, ‘How do you how do you keep your marriage together?' Just really insightful questions to ask, but she has just been so central to everything that I do. And so going back a little bit and talking about, like the strength of our relationship and how much that helps, we actually needed to have that breakup period as horribly painful as that was, and wow, was I carrying a torch for her all of those years. I mean, I remember, you know, as time was going by, I would talk to my mom, and I'd be like, ‘Mom, I just wish that Laurie could see the man that I become.' But we needed that time because oftentimes, and what we found in ourselves, we didn't know it at the time, because you're living in your environment and you can't see it, right? Is that in youth, things are often absolutes. And you often will get to a place where you're starting your marriage, your relationship is growing. And if you start to talk about marriage, there are things that we have found were absolutes for us. You know, certain things that we did, how we practiced our faith. Did we open up presents on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, but the expectation was somebody was going to have to give up their particular tradition to conform to the tradition of one of the spouses. And in your youth, that seems reasonable, and I think we needed that time to be apart, having had that time together at such an important time in each of our lives here. But we needed that time apart, because I think we needed that frame of reference as we grew as people into adults. Grew as young adults. And now all of a sudden here I'm getting multiple assignments, and now being thrust into leadership positions with accountability and authority, and then coming back to that, all of a sudden, you're realizing, ‘Gosh, the world just isn't always in absolutes. And maybe a marriage doesn't have to be zero sum, but maybe a marriage can be positive sum.' And do we really have to make somebody give up something that is important to them, that is a part of their identity? Because somehow you feel like you have to conform your marriage into one side or the other. And so, I think for us that was that was so incredibly important. So to kind of get to that story is that, you know, I left Aviano and I went to Al Dhafra. I was in Al Dhafra actually for September 11. It was my first squadron command, but it was a squadron command I wasn't expecting, because I came there as a chief of security forces for about a 70-person security forces flight as a part of the 763rd Expeditionary Air Refueling Squadron at Al Dhafra. And then all of a sudden, 9/11 happens, and we went from about 400 people on Al Dhafra to about 4,000. And you know, U-2s came in, ISR platforms came in. Everything changed. And all of a sudden, this 70-person security forces flight that I had grew into about a 350-person security forces squadron. And AFSET said, ‘Hey, Sherman, you built it, you keep it, and we'll replace you with a major when you leave.' And I was a six-year captain, and so then finishing up that assignment, and I got picked up for — there was a point to that story — but it was about coming back, is that, hey, I got these new, unique experiences that grew me under my belt. And then I came back to do an AFIT program at Cal State San Bernardino. And that was the moment that brought Laurie and I back together.   Naviere Walkewicz  In what way?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN And so, I had a health scare. Nobody knows what it was. We never figured it out. Doctors never figured it out. But it was one of those things, like, all of a sudden, I shotgun something out to everybody I knew. I said, ‘Hey, doctors are a little bit concerned, you know, keep me in your thoughts.' And so Laurie, Laurie is like, ‘Holy cow, you can't just send a one liner and leave it at that.' So she called my mom and dad and said, ‘What's his phone number?' And so it started to turn into ‘Hey, give me all of your test results after you get it back.' Then pretty soon we're talking a couple times a week, and then pretty soon we're talking every other day, and then we are talking every day. And the beauty of this was that we already knew each other, so we already knew what everybody's favorite color was — by the way, Laurie's is purple. We knew what music each other liked. We knew things about each other. And some of the things that actually drew us together when we were dating here was, you know, we had things like some common family traditions, like, you know, Italian fish on Christmas Eve and sitting around the table for hours and stuff like that were all things that we had in common. So we already knew that about each other. Now, her and I on the phone, we're getting into some real, like substantive discussions, children, faith. How do you how you raise children? How do you know, what are we going to do for different traditions? What happens if I have to take a remote; what does that mean? And so we were getting into these really, deep conversations. And, you know, I would come back from either class or then when I PCs to the security forces center out at Lackland, you know, I would come home from work, and this was in the old flip phone days where you had a battery that came off the back. So I would have one battery in the charger, and then I would have an earbud in, and I'd have the phone in my pocket. Yeah, and I'd come home and to call her, and we would just go throughout the evening. So I'm ironing BDUs at the time, shining my boots and stuff like that, and so, and we were just talking. And then we were just kind of like living life together. And, after that point, it became very clear that those two young people who sincerely cared about each other, now, each of us grew up and had experiences in a place that allowed us to really appreciate each other and really love each other. And you know, we were married just a little over a year after that. And it has been phenomenal, her support. And I think one of the great testaments to that was, 10 days after we got married, I went to Baghdad, but she's like, ‘I grew up in the Air Force. I know how this works. We're gonna move the house. I'll get the house put together.' And she's also a professional in her own right, which is great. So she was working in a legal office here as a paralegal and legal assistant here in Colorado Springs, and has been a GS employee for the last 18-plus years. So what's great is she, too has her own aspect of service. What I love about it is that in the jobs that she's in and then the jobs that I'm in, we can talk shop, and then we cannot talk shop, right? And so she's the first person I go to if I have to ask a question, she's the first person that I'll go to say, ‘Hey, did I do that right? Or do I need to backtrack on that a little bit?' Because she knows me, and she knows me completely, and that level of trust and love and faith that we have for each other has truly enabled me to be able to serve our airmen on a level that I don't think would have been possible without her.   Naviere Walkewicz  51:59 Would you say that she's had a role in your development as a leader, in the way that you lead.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  52:05 Oh, absolutely, absolutely, because, and I love it, because her experience as a brat and her dad as a chief gives her a very unique lens to look through. And so the advice that she gives me she can give me from her teenage self in some way, you know, from that experience, watching how her dad interacted with something or knowing her aspect about this. And then as she's developed professionally, working on the E-Ring at the Pentagon a couple different times, working for very senior leaders, knows how to navigate that space. So then I'll go to her for advice, like, ‘Hey, how did your boss handle something like this?' ‘Well, let me tell you what, how we work through this...' And so I would absolutely say that that Laurie has uniquely influenced and helped me to become the best version of myself that I can be.   Naviere Walkewicz  53:03 Wow. Well, I want to ask you a little bit about developing yourself as well, because one of the questions we like to ask is, what are you doing every day to make yourself a better leader? Can you share what that might be?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  53:17 I've said it a couple times during this: I truly believe that leadership is a human experience, so for me, it's about the interaction. And so oftentimes, advice that I've given to people — like there are amazing resources abound that can help people, give people leadership perspectives, and we can either learn it from history, or we can learn it through study. We can learn it through analysis. We can learn it through books. And I've always talked to people about use the external tools that help to grow you, but make sure that you're using it to influence the personality that you already have. Because oftentimes what happens is, is that people will have this really strong desire to say, “OK, I want to make sure that I do this right. And so in doing this right, let me make sure I've got my checklist, and so I'm going to greet them, I'm going to ask them how their family is, I'm going to ask them if the kid did all right in the baseball game. And I'm going to go through my checklist, and if I do that, I fulfill my leadership obligation.' Now not everybody does, and I'm making generalities on but, but I think that there can oftentimes be the allure that when you are focusing on what may be the theory or the principle of the day, and not using it to supplement and grow and mature your personality, that there is a strong allure to want to wholesale replicate what it was that you learned, and you're doing it in a noble place. It's not nefarious. It's being done in a noble, genuine place. But there's that allure to say, ‘OK, good, I really like what I've learned. I'm going to do these things and step through.' And so why I talk so much about the experience, and why I talk so much about the interaction, is that the more that you know the people that you may be influencing by just simply being there and understanding what that means. It means you're eternalizing the value of your presence. You're listening to their stories, and you're understanding for them, what are the things that are motivating them? What are the things that they value? Because each generation, each environment, each condition is going to require something a little bit different from you, and if you don't take the time to understand your environment or generation or cultural nuances or things like that on where you're at, then you are missing that opportunity to develop trust, where they start to believe in you as a person, and not just the rank and position that you hold, because they'll do the right thing for the rank and position that you hold. That's the caliber of people that we have in this Air Force of ours. They'll do the right thing. But if you transcend that in the fact that they believe in you wholeheartedly and trust you, oftentimes with their own lives, it means that you've invested something into them, where they truly know that you care. And that goes back to that A1C on the cork board that said, ‘I need somebody who cares about me as a person.'   Naviere Walkewicz  56:41 You know, as I think about what you've experienced through your career and the lessons you've learned, both professionally and personally, what would you say to yourself back then that you should be doing back then to get to where you're at now? Because we have listeners that are like, ‘What can I start planting today, that will bloom down the road?'   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  57:03 Absolutely. And so I think if I was to go back and put my arm around Cadet First Class Sherman, I think what I would do is — because it is, it is oftentimes easy to look in the crystal clear mirror of hindsight, right? But I think instead, what I would do is I would put my arm around him and say, ‘Keep following your heart and let the failures happen, because the failures are going to grow and let the stumbles happen and enjoy the triumphs with people and be appreciative for what got you there.' And I think it would be more of the encouragement of like, ‘You have laid out a path for you take the path wherever it goes, the joy, the pain, the triumph, the failure, all of those things, because all of that helps to develop the leader.' And oftentimes you want to go back and say, gosh, if I was going to talk to my previous self, then I would say, ‘Ah, don't do that one thing,' right? But I'm looking at it saying that if I didn't do that one thing, then I'm not sure that I would be where I'm at at a time to make sure I didn't do that thing at a moment that was incredibly catastrophic. And so while we have this desire to want to prevent ourselves from the failure, I think that what we have to do is say you're going to fail and you need to fail, and it's going to sound — relish in the failure, because it is often emotionally troubling, especially those of us that come here because we are Type A perfectionist, and that's part of the draw of coming to this amazing place. Is there a certain personality traits that help us to be successful here, but not all of those personality traits make us uniquely successful in all situations outside, and so you've got to have that failure at some point in time. And the failure that you can get up and say, ‘OK, I did this. This happened. My soul is bruised. My ego is bruised. I may have to take a little bit of accountability for this. OK, now I need to have the courage to take the next step forward again.' Because I could easily retreat back to a safe place, and I could become risk averse, and all that does is hurt the people around you. OK. I have to have the courage to breathe and take the step again and get back in there. So I would tell my — I don't think I would want to prevent myself from doing anything. I think even the growth that took place while Laurie and I were apart — and, like I said, that torch that I carried for her — I think if I had whispered in my ear and said, ‘Hey, just relax, you're gonna marry her.' I think I needed that torch, because that in my own mind and my own emotion was me needing to become a better man, and so I think I needed to go through — like, sometimes you need the struggle, and sometimes the things that are most valuable are the things that you had to go through the struggle for, right? And I think that's where my blue collar ethics background comes in. It's like, I'm just going to roll up my sleeves and I'm going to work through the struggle.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:00:36 Wow. Well, we took a look back. I just want to ask you a question forward. So do you think about legacy? And what do you want your legacy to be? Is that something that plays in your mind as you wake up each morning or go to lead people?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:00:50 I think the way that I look at it is, I look at it in a in a different aspect, and the way that I look at it is in a very confined point to point. It's not about what is going to be Tom Sherman's legacy when he retires someday, but was that interaction that I had with somebody to give them some encouraging words when they fell down, did that matter to them at that moment? Because there are people for me in my failures that were commanders, that were leaders, that were mentors, that were senior enlisted, that, you know, grabbed that lieutenant by the arm and helped to lift me up. And their memories are etched in my fabric. And so I think that it's about that individual event that your legacy will live in the people in which you made a difference to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:01:49 Well, I'll share with you, I was telling my son — he's a cadet, a third-class cadet, actually, now he's about to be a C2C — that I was doing this podcast with you, and he said, ‘What an incredible leader, Mom, he motivates me. He's so inspiring.' So your legacy is already through my son—   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:02:05 Thank you! That means — thank you so much for sharing.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:02:10 —that you really made an impact. So we're going to get to your final thoughts here in a little bit. But before we do, I want to make sure that you know our podcasts publish on every second Tuesday of the month, and you can certainly listen to Gen. Sherman in any of our other podcasts on longblueleadership.org. So Gen. Sherman, what would you like to leave our listeners with today? This has been incredible, by the way. Thank you.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:02:32 I have truly enjoyed this, and it's just been — it was just wonderful having the conversation with you, and it's in real honor to be a part of this. I truly believe in what you're doing here.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:02:43 Thank you. It's my pleasure to help share your story and help inspire others. And is there anything we might leave with our listeners that that they can part with tonight?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:02:51 I think, for me, you need to love what you do and love I think, is one of the most powerful words in language. And I don't just say the English language. I say in language because of the strength behind the meaning and how wide the meaning can be impactful. If you love what you do, people will feel that your very presence will make a difference. They'll feel that if you love what you do, then you're being, you know, internally, inspired by the love that you have for what you're being a part of, right? If you love and care about your people, they will follow you to the ends of the Earth, because they know the passion that you have and the belief that you have in them. So I think that as we go back to these things, we oftentimes look at the terms of courage and love may seem diametrically opposed, and I would attest that you can be most courageous and that your courage will be most effective only when it's buttressed by the love that you have in what you do and who you do it with.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:04:08 Thank you, sir, for that. Thank you for being on Long Blue Leadership.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:04:11 Absolutely. Thank you. This was a wonderful time. It was a real honor.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:04:14 Thank you. Well, until next time, I'm Naviere Walkewicz. We'll see you on Long Blue Leadership.     KEYWORDS Leadership, Air Force Academy, Major General Thomas P. Sherman, mentorship, personal growth, security forces, work-life balance, family support, continuous improvement, legacy       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation        

Dr. Tevi Troy, former Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and best-selling presidential historian, on the death of former White House Press Secretary Bill Moyers, the New York City mayoral race, and the dangers of a future New York under socialist governance.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sean Hagerty is a retired Special Operations Soldier with over 25 years of experience. He spent his younger years training and conducting combat operations with the 1st of the 75th Ranger Regiment. After nine years, in 2005, he was selected for and assigned to a Special Operations unit at Fort Belvoir, Virginia. There he spent sixteen years and finished his military career, retiring as a Sergeant Major. He received several awards and decorations throughout his career including three Bronze Stars. Sean currently works for the Department of Defense Science Board as the Senior Advisor. “The Defense Science Board (DSB) is charged with solving tough, technical, national security problems for the Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Under Secretaries of Defense, the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and other senior Department officials.” His wife Misty is an Executive Officer at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. Their children Courtney, Travis, Samantha, and Delaney all live in the Washington D.C. area and are thriving, growing and traveling along their own paths. The grandchildren Rowen, Jameson, and Wren keep Sean and Misty busy. Sean Hagerty has combined over 25+ years of service in the Special Operations community and deep-rooted research instincts from years of academic pursuits in history to tell this story. This story was written mostly in the plush seats of the daily Tackett's Mill/Pentagon commuter bus and the shaky bucket seats of the Franconia Springfield/Largo blue metro line. However, a few chapters were written while traveling for work, taking advantage of uninterrupted thoughts on an airliner. One chapter was even written during an evening break while on a business trip aboard the USS Nimitz CVN 68 aircraft carrier out in the Pacific Ocean. Cabal all came together during evening edits in his home shared with Misty, in Lakeridge, Virginia. Jones Point was the first novel in the Dane Cooper series. Cabal is the second. The Department of Defense, Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review has cleared the publication of both novels. Review was required due to Sean's past and current security clearance. Jones Point was published by Blue Handle Publishing on April 15th, 2024. Cabal will be released June 6th, 2025.. Readers can learn more about Sean at authorseanhagerty.com and follow Sean.Hagerty.73 on Facebook/Instagram and @seanhagerty850 on TikTok.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stephen Vaden, Tennessee native, former USDA general counsel and judge on the Court of International Trade has been confirmed by the U.S. Senate as the Deputy Secretary of Agriculture at USDA.

 Santi: Hi, this is a special episode of Statecraft. I've got a wonderful guest host with me today. Kyla Scanlon: Hey, I'm Kyla Scanlon! I'm the author of a book called In This Economy and an economic commentator. Santi: Kyla has joined me today for a couple reasons. One, I'm a big fan of her newsletter: it's about economics, among many other things. She had a great piece recently on what we can learn from C.S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters, which is a favorite book of mine.Kyla's also on today because we're interviewing Wally Adeyemo, who was the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury in the Biden administration. We figured we each had questions we wanted answered.Kyla: Yeah, I've had the opportunity to interview Wally a couple times during the Biden administration, and I wanted to see where he thinks things are at now. He played a key role in implementing the Inflation Reduction Act, financial sanctions on Russia, and a whole bunch of other things.Santi: For my part, I'm stuck on Wally's role in setting up the IRS's Direct File program, where you can file your taxes for free directly through the IRS instead of paying TurboTax a hundred bucks to do it. “Good governance types” tend to love Direct File, but the current admin is thinking of killing it. I wanted to understand how the program got rolled out, how Wally would respond to criticisms of the program, and what he learned from building something in government, which now may disappear.Kyla, you've talked to Wally before. How did that conversation go? Kyla: I actually was able to go to his office in D.C., and I talked to a couple of key people in the Biden administration: Jared Bernstein, the former chair of the CEA, and Daniel Hornung, who was at the National Economic Council.We're talking to Wally on the day that the House passed the one big beautiful bill. There's also so much happening financially, like the bond market is totally rebelling against the US government right now. I'm really curious how he thinks things are, as a key player in the last administration.Santi: Wally, you've spent most of your career in Democratic Party institutions. You worked on the Kerry presidential campaign in 2004. You served in the Obama admin. You were the first chief of staff to the CFPB, the president of the Obama Foundation, and, most recently, Deputy Treasury Secretary in the Biden admin.30,000ft question: How do you see the Democratic Party today?My view is that we continue to be the party that cares deeply about working-class people, but we haven't done a good job of communicating that to people, especially when it comes to the things that matter most to them. From my standpoint, it's costs: things in America cost too much for a working-class family.I want to make sure I define working class: I think about people who make under $100,000 a year, many of whom don't own homes on the coast or don't own a significant amount of stocks (which means they haven't seen the asset appreciation that's led to a great deal of wealth creation over the last several decades). When you define it that way, 81% of Americans sit in that category of people. Despite the fact that they've seen their median incomes rise 5-10% over the last five years, they've seen the cost of the things they care about rise even faster.We haven't had a clear-cut agenda focused on the standard of living, which I think is the thing that matters most to Americans today.Santi: There are folks who would say the problem for Democrats wasn't that they couldn't communicate clearly, or that they didn't have a governing agenda, but that they couldn't execute their agenda the way they hoped to in the time available to them. Would you say there's truth to that claim?Most people talk about a communications issue, but I don't think it's a communications issue. There are two issues. One is an implementation issue, and the second is an issue of the actual substance and policy at the Treasury Department. I was the deputy secretary, but I was also the Chief Operating Officer, which meant that I was in charge of execution. The two most significant domestic things I had to execute were the American Rescue Plan, where $1.9 trillion flowed through the Treasury Department, and the Inflation Reduction Act. The challenge with execution in the government is that we don't spend a lot on our systems, on making execution as easy as possible.For example, the Advanced Child Tax Credit was intended to give people money to help with each of their children during the pandemic. What Congress called on us to do was to pay people on a monthly basis. In the IRS system, you pay your taxes mostly on an annual basis, which meant that most of our systems weren't set up to pay a monthly check to Americans. It took us a great deal of work to figure out a way to recreate a system just to do that.We've underinvested in the systems that the IRS works on. The last time we made a significant investment in the IRS's digital infrastructure was the 1960s; before we had an ATM machine, before we sent a man to the moon, before we had a personal computer. So that meant that everything was coded in a language called COBOL.So execution was quite hard in the American Rescue Plan. People were left out and felt that the government wasn't working for them. If you called the IRS, only 13% of your calls were being answered. We got that back up to 85% before we left. Ultimately, I think part of this is an execution challenge. In government we want to spend money coming up with new policies, but we don't want to pay for execution, which then means that when you get the policy passed, implementation isn't great.When Jen Pahlka was on your show, she talked about the need to focus on identifying the enablers to implementation. Direct File was one of the best examples of us taking implementation very seriously.But also, on some policy issues that mattered most to Americans, we weren't advancing the types of strategies that would've helped lower the cost of housing and lowering the cost of medicine. We did some things there, but there's clearly more that we could have done, and more we need to do going forward to demonstrate that we're fighting to bring down those costs. It's everything from permitting reform — not just at the federal level, but what can we do to incentivize it at the state and local level — to thinking about what we can do on drug costs. Why does it cost so much more to get a medicine in America than in Canada? That is something that we can solve. We've just chosen not to at the federal level.At the end of the year, we were going to take action to go after some of the middlemen in the pharmacy industry who were taking out rents and large amounts of money. It dropped out of the bill because of the negotiations between the Republican Congress and then President-elect Trump. But there are a lot of things that we can do both on implementation, which will mean that Americans feel the programs that we're passing in a more effective way, and policy solutions that we need to advance as a party that will help us as well.Kyla: Some people think Americans tend to vote against their own self-interest. How can your party message to people that these sorts of policies are really important for them?Ultimately, what I found is that most people just understand their self-interest differently, and for them, a big part of this was, “Who's fighting for me on the issues that I care most about?”From my standpoint, part of the problem we had with Direct File, which I think was an innovative solution, was that we got to implementing it so late in the administration that we didn't have the ability for it to show the impact. I'm hoping future administrations will think through how to start their implementation journey on things like Direct File sooner in the administration, when you have a great deal of political capital, so people can actually feel the impact over time.To your question, it's not just about the messaging, it's about the messenger. People tend to trust people who look like them, who come from the places they come from. When it came to the Child Tax Credit and also to Direct File, the biggest innovation wasn't the technology: the technology for Direct File has been used by the Australians, the British, and other countries for decades.The biggest innovation was us joining that technology with trusted people in communities who were going out to talk to people about those programs and building those relationships. That was something that the IRS hadn't done a great deal of. We invested a great deal in those community navigators who were helping us get people to trust the things the government was doing again, like the Child Tax Credit, like Direct File, so that they could use it.We often think that Washington is going to be able to give messages to the country that people are going to hear. But we're both in a more complicated media environment, where people are far more skeptical of things that come from people in Washington. So the best people to advocate for and celebrate the things that we're doing are people who are closer to the communities we're trying to reach. In product advertising today, more companies are looking to influencers to advertise things, rather than putting an ad on television, because people trust the people that they follow. The same is true for the things that we do in government.Santi: I've talked to colleagues of yours in the last administration who say things like, “In the White House, we did not have a good enough sense of the shot clock.” They point to various reasons, including COVID, as a reason the admin didn't do a good enough job of prioritization.Do you think that's true, that across the administration, there was a missing sense of the shot clock or a missing sense of prioritization? No, because I'm a Lakers fan. These are professionals. We're professionals. This is not our first rodeo. We know how much time is on the shot clock; we played this game. The challenge wasn't just COVID. For me at Treasury — and I think this is the coolest part of being Deputy Secretary of the Treasury — I had responsibilities domestic and international. As I'm trying to modernize the IRS, to invest all my time in making the system work better for customers and to collect more taxes from the people who owe money, Russia invades Ukraine. I had to turn a bunch of my attention to thinking about what we were going to do there. Then you have Hamas attacking Israel.There was more we should have done on the domestic end, but we have to remember that part of the presidency is: you get to do the things you want to do, but you also have to do the things you have to do. We had a lot of things we had to do that we weren't planning for which required all-of-the-administration responses.I think the most important lesson I've learned about that is that it comes down to both being focused on the things that matter, and being willing to communicate to the American people why your priorities have to change in light of things that happen in the world.But the people I'm sure you've talked to, most of them work on domestic policy alone, and they probably never have been in a National Security Council meeting, where you're thinking about the risks to the country. The president has to do both of those things. So I get how difficult it is to do that, just given where I sat at the Treasury Department.Santi: Looking back from an implementation perspective, are there things you would've done differently during your time at Treasury?The most important thing that I would've done differently was to immediately set up a permanent implementation and delivery unit in the Treasury Department. We always like to pretend like the Treasury Department is just a policy department where we make policy, we collect taxes. But in any crisis the country ever has, a great deal of responsibility — for execution or implementation of whatever the response is — falls to the Treasury Department. Think about the financial crisis, which is clearly something that's in the Treasury's domain. The vast majority of money for COVID flowed through the Treasury Department. You think about the IRA, a climate bill: the vast majority of that money flows through the Treasury Department.And Treasury doesn't have a dedicated staff that's just focused on implementation: How do we do this well? How do we make sure the right people are served? How do we make sure that we communicate this well? We did this to a degree by a team that was focused on the American Rescue Plan. But it was only focused on the American Rescue Plan. If I could start again, I would have said, “I want a permanent implementation structure within the Treasury Department of people who are cross-cutting, who only think about how we execute the policies that we pass through Congress and that we put together through an executive order. How do we do that extremely well?”Kyla: What you're talking about is very people-centric: How do we get an implementation team, and how do we make sure that the right people are doing the right jobs? Now we have DOGE, which is less people-centric. How do you reconcile what Doge is doing relative to what you would've done differently in this role that you had?As you would suspect, I wasn't excited about the fact we had lost the election, but initially I thought DOGE could be helpful with technology. I think marrying technology with people — that's the key to success for the government. We've never really been great at doing technology in the government.Part of the reason for that is a procurement process that is very slow because of how the federal acquisition rules work. What we are trying to do is prevent corruption and also waste, fraud, and abuse. But what that does is, it leads to slowness in our ability to get the technology on board that we need, and in getting the right people.I was hoping DOGE would bring in people who knew a great deal about technology and put us in a position where we could use that to build better products for the American people. I thought they would love Direct File, and that they would find ways to improve Direct File and expand it to more Americans.My view is that any American in the working class or middle class should not have to pay a company to file their taxes. We have the ability in this country, and I think Direct File was proving that. My goal, if we'd had more time, was to expand this to almost any American being able to use it. I thought they'd be able to accelerate that by bringing in the right people, but also the right technology. We were on that path before they took those two things apart.My sense is that you have to reform the way that we hire people because it's too hard to hire the right people. In some cases, you don't need some of the people you have today because technology is going to require different skills to do different things. It's easier to break something, I found, than it is to build something. I think that's what they're finding today as well.Santi: When I talk to left-of-center folks about the DOGE push, they tend to be skeptical about the idea that AI or modern technology can replace existing federal workers. I think some of that is a natural backlash to the extreme partisan coding of DOGE, and the fact that they're firing a lot of people very quickly. But what's your view? After DOGE, what kinds of roles would you like to see automated?Let me say: I disagree with the view that DOGE and technology can't replace some of the things that federal workers do today. My view is that “productivity enhancing” tech — it's not that it is going to make employees who are currently doing the job more productive. It is going to mean you need fewer employees. We have to be honest about that.Go to the IRS, for example. When I got there, we had a huge paper backlog at the IRS because, despite what most people think, millions of people still file their taxes by paper, and they send them to the IRS. And during the pandemic, the commissioner, who was then working for President Trump, decided to shut down the IRS for public health reasons — to make sure employees did not have to risk getting COVID.There were piles of paper backing up, so much so that they had filled cafeterias at the IRS facilities with huge piles of paper. The problem, of course, is that, unlike modern systems, you could not just machine-read those papers and put them into our systems. Much of that required humans to code those papers into the system by hand. There is no need in the 21st century for that to happen, so one of the things that we started to do was introduce this simple thing called scanning, where you would scan the papers — I know it sounds like a novel idea. That would help you get people's tax returns faster into the system, but also get checks out quickly, and allow us to see if people are underpaying their taxes, because we can use that data with a modern system. But over time, what would that mean? We'd need fewer people to enter the data from those forms.When we get money for the IRS from Congress, it is actually seen as revenue-raising because they expect it to bring down the debt and deficit, which is completely true. But the model Congress uses to do that is reliant on the number of full-time employees we hire. One challenge we have with the IRS — and in government systems in general — is that you don't get credit for technology investments that should improve your return on investment.So whenever we did the ROI calculations for the IRS, the Congressional Budget Office would calculate how much revenue we'd bring in, and it was always based on the number of people you had doing enforcement work that would lead to certain dollars coming in. So we got no credit for the technology investments. Which was absolutely the opposite of what we knew would be true: the more you invested in technology, the more likely you were to bring in more revenue, and you would be able to cut the cost of employees.Santi: If the CBO changed the way it scored technology improvements, would more Congresspeople be interested in funding technology?It is just a CBO issue. It's one we've tried to talk to them about over the last several years, but one where they've been unwilling to move. My view is that unlocking this will unlock greater investment in technology in a place like the IRS, because every dollar you invest in technology — I think — would earn back $10 in additional tax revenue we'd be able to collect from people who are skipping out on their taxes today. It's far more valuable to invest in that technology than to grow the number of employees working in enforcement at the IRS. You need both, but you can't say that a person is worth 5x their salary in revenue and that technology is worth 0. That makes no sense.Kyla: When we spoke about Direct File many months ago, people in my comment section were super excited and saying things like, “I just want the government to tell me how much money I owe.” When you think about the implementation of Direct File, what went right, and how do you think it has evolved?The thing that went right was that we proved that we could build something quite easily, and we built it ourselves, unlike many technology projects in government. We didn't go out and hire a bunch of consultants and contractors to do it. We did it with people at the IRS, but also with people from 18F and from GSA who worked in the government. We did it in partnership with a number of stakeholders outside the government who gave us advice, but the build was done by us.The reason that was important — and the reason it's important to build more things internally rather than hiring consulting firms or other people to build it — is that you then have the intellectual capital from building that, and that can be used to build other things. This was one product, but my view is that I want the IRS home page to one day look a lot more like the screen on your iPhone, so that you can click on the app on the IRS homepage that can help you, depending on what you need — if it's a Direct File, or if it's a tax transcript.By building Direct File internally, we were getting closer to that, and the user scores on the effectiveness of the tool and the ability to use it were through the roof. Even for a private sector company, it would've been seen as a great success. In the first year, we launched late in the filing season, mostly just to test the product, but also to build stakeholder support for it. In the limited release, 140,000 people used it. The average user said that before Direct File, it took them about 13 hours to file their taxes, and with Direct File, it took them just over an hour to file their taxes.But you also have to think about how much money the average American spends filing their taxes: about $200. That's $200 that a family making under $100,000 could invest in their kids, in paying some bills, rather than in filing their taxes.Even this year, with no advertising by the Trump administration of Direct File, we had more than 300,000 people use it. The user scores for the product were above 85%. The challenge, of course, is that instead of DOGE investing in improving the product — which was a place where you could have seen real intellectual capital go to work and make something that works for all Americans — they've decided to discontinue Direct File. [NB: There has been widespread reporting that the administration plans to discontinue Direct File. The GOP tax bill passed by the House would end Direct File if it becomes law. At the time of publication, the Direct File has not been discontinued.]The sad part is that when you think about where we are as a country, this is a tool that could both save people money, save people time, improve our ability to collect taxes, and is something that exists in almost every other developed economy. It makes no sense to me why you would end something like this rather than continue to develop it.Santi: People remember the failure of healthcare.gov, which crashed when it was rolled out all at once to everyone in the country. It was an embarrassing episode for the Obama administration, and political actors in that administration learned they had to pilot things and roll them out in phases.Is there a tension between that instinct — to test things slowly, to roll them out to a select group of users, and then to add users in following cycles — Is there a tension between that and trying to implement quickly, so that people see the benefit of the work you're doing?One of my bosses in the Obama administration was Jeff Zients, the person who was brought in to fix healthcare.gov. He relentlessly focused on execution. He always made the point that it's easy to come up with a strategy to some degree: you can figure out what the policy solution is. But the difference between good and great is how you execute against it. I think there is some tension there, but not as much as you would think.Once we were able to show that the pilot was a success, I got invited to states all over the country, like Maryland, to announce that they were joining Direct File the next year. These members of Congress wanted to do Direct File events telling people in their state, “This product that's worked so well elsewhere is coming to us next.” It gave us the ability to celebrate the success.I learned the lesson not just from Zients, but also from then-professor Elizabeth Warren, whom I worked for as chief of staff at the CFPB. One challenge we had at the CFPB was to build a complaint hotline, at that point mostly phone-operated, for people who were suffering. They said it would take us at least a year to build out all the product functions we need. We decided to take a modular approach and say, “How long would it take for us to build the system for one product? Let's try that and see how that works. We'll do a test.”It was successful, and we were able to use that to tell the story about the CFPB and what it would do, not just for mortgages, but for all these other products. We built user interest in the complaint hotline, in a way that we couldn't have if we'd waited to build the whole thing at once. While I think you're right that there is some tension between getting everyone to feel it right away and piloting; if the pilot is successful, it also gives you the opportunity to go out and sell this thing to people and say, “Here's what people who did the pilot are saying about this product.”I remember someone in Texas who was willing to do a direct-to-camera and talk about the ways that Direct File was so easy for them to use. It gets back to my point on message and messenger. Deputy Secretary Adeyemo telling you about this great thing the government did is one thing. But an American who looks like you, who's a nurse, who's a mom of two kids, telling you that this product actually worked for her: That's something that more people identify with.Healthcare.gov taught us the lesson of piloting and doing things in a modular way. This is what companies have been doing for decades. If it's worked for them, I think it can work for the government too.Santi: I'm a fan of Direct File, personally. I don't want this administration to kill it. But I was looking through some of the criticism that Direct File got: for instance, there's criticism about it rivaling the IRS Free File program, which is another IRS program that partners with nonprofits to help some folks file their taxes for free.Then there's this broader philosophical criticism: “I don't want the feds telling me how much I owe them.” The idea is that the government is incentivized to squeeze every last dollar out of you.I'm curious what you make of that, in part because I spoke recently to an American who worked on building e-government systems for Estonia. One of the things that has allowed Estonia to build cutting-edge digital systems in the government is that Estonia is a small and very high-trust society. Everybody's one degree of separation from everybody else.We're a much bigger and more diverse country. How do you think that affects the federal government's ability to build tools like Direct File?I think it affects it a lot, and it gets back to my point: not just the message but the messenger. I saw this not just with Direct File, but with the Advanced Child Tax Credit, which was intended to help kids who were living in poverty, but also families overall. What we found initially in the data was that, among families that didn't have to file taxes because they made too little, many of them were unwilling to take advantage of Direct File and the Advanced Child Tax Credit because they couldn't believe the government was doing something to just help them. I spent a lot of time with priests, pastors, and other community leaders in many of the communities where people were under-filing to try and get them to talk about this program and why it was something that they should apply for.One of the challenges we suffer from right now in America, overall, is a lack of trust in institutions. You have to really go local and try to rebuild that trust.That also speaks to taking a pilot approach that goes slower in some cases. Some of the criticism we got was, “Why don't you just fill out this form for us and then just send it to us, so that Direct File is just me pressing a button so I can pay my taxes?”Part of the challenge for us in doing that is a technology challenge: we are not there technologically. But the other problem is a trust problem. If I were to just fill out your taxes for you and send them to you, I think people, at this stage, would distrust the government and distrust the technology.Direct File had to be on a journey with people, showing people, “If I put in this information, it accurately sends me back my check.” As people develop more trust, we can also add more features to it that I think people will trust. But the key has to be: how do you earn that trust over time?We can't expect that if we put out a product that looks like something the Estonian government or Australia would put out, that people would trust it at this point. We have to realize that we are on a journey to regain the trust of the American people.The government can and will work for them, and Direct File was a part of that. We started to demonstrate that with that product because the people who used it in these communities became the spokespeople for it in a better way than I ever could be, than the Secretary or the President could be.Everyone knows that they need to pay their taxes because it's part of their responsibility living in this country. The things that make people the most upset is the fact that there are people who don't pay their taxes. We committed that we were going to go after them.The second frustration was: “Why do you make it so hard for me to pay my taxes? Why can't I get through to you on the phone line? Why do I have to pay somebody else to do my taxes?” Our goal was to solve those two problems by investing money and going after the people who just decided they weren't going to pay, but also by making it as easy as possible for you to pay your taxes and for most people, to get that tax refund as quickly as possible.But doing that was about going on a journey with people, about regaining their trust in an institution that mattered to them a great deal because 90 something-percent of the money that funds our government comes in through the IRS.Kyla: You have a piece out in Foreign Affairs called “Make Moscow Pay,” and what I found most interesting about that essay is that you said Europe needs to step it up because the United States won't. Talk through the role of Treasury in financial sanctions, and your reasons for writing this piece.People often think about the Treasury Department as doing a few things. One is working with Wall Street; another one is collecting your taxes. Most people don't think about the fact that the Treasury Department is a major part of the National Security Committee, because we have these tools called financial sections.They use the power of the dollar to try and change the behavior of foreign actors who are taking steps that aren't consistent with our national security interests. A great example of this is what we did with regard to Russia — saying that we're going to cut off Russian banks from the US financial system, which means that you can't transact in US dollars.The problem for any bank that can transact in dollars is that the backbone of most of the financial world is built on the US dollar. It increases their cost, it makes it more difficult for them to transact, and makes it harder for them to be part of the global economy, nearly impossible.And that's what we've done in lots of cases when it comes to Russia. We have financial sanction programs that touch all over the world, from Venezuela to Afghanistan. The US government, since 9/11, has used sanctions as one of its primary tools of impacting foreign policy. Some of them have gone well, some of them I think haven't gone as well, and there's a need for us to think through how we use those policies.Santi: What makes sanctions an effective tool? Positions on sanctions don't line up neatly on partisan lines. Sanctions have a mixed track record, and you'll have Republicans who say sanctions have failed, and you'll have Democrats say sanctions have been an effective tool, and vice versa.The way I think about sanctions is that they are intended to bring change, and the only way that they work is that they're part of an overarching foreign policy strategy. That type of behavior change was what we saw when Iran came to the table and wanted to negotiate a way to reduce sanctions in exchange for limits on their nuclear program. That's the type of behavior change we're trying to accomplish with sanctions, but you can't do it with sanctions alone. You need a foreign policy strategy. We didn't do it by the United States confronting Iran; we got our allies and partners to work together with us. When I came into office in 2021, Secretary Yellen asked me to do a review of our sanctions policies — what's worked, what hasn't — because it had been 20 years since the 9/11 attacks.And the most important lesson I learned was that the sanctions programs that were the most effective were the ones we did on a multilateral basis — so we did it with our friends and allies. Part of the reason for this is that while the dollar is the most dominant currency around the world, oftentimes if you can't do something in dollars, you do it in a euro, or you do it in a Japanese yen, or pound sterling.The benefit of having allies all over the world is that the dominant, convertible currencies in the world are controlled by allies and partners. When we acted together with them, we were more effective in curtailing the economic activity of our adversary, and our pressure is more likely to lead to them changing their behavior.We had to be very cautious about collateral damage. You might be targeting an individual, but by targeting that individual, you might make it harder for a company they're affiliated with to continue doing business, or for a country that they're in to get access to banking services. Let's say that you're a huge bank in America, and you're worried about sanctions risk in a small country where you do little business. Why not pull out, rather than having to put in place a huge compliance program? One of the challenges that we have is that the people who make the decisions about whether to extend sanctions don't necessarily spend a lot of time thinking about some of these economic consequences of the sanctions approach.Whenever I was around the table and we were making a decision about using weapons, there was a process that was very elaborate that ended up with something going to the president. You'd often think about kinetic force very seriously, because you were going to have to get the president to make a decision. We didn't always take that kind of rigor when it came to thinking about using our sanctions policy, but the impact on the lives of people in these countries was just as significant for their access to not only money, but to food and to the resources they needed to live.Santi: What do you make of the effectiveness of the initial sanctions on Russia after the invasion of Ukraine? I've heard mixed reviews from folks inside and outside the Biden administration.Sanctions, again, to my point, are only a tool. They've had to be part of a larger strategy, and I think those sanctions were quite effective. I think the saving grace for the Russians has been the fact that China has largely been able and willing to give them access to the things they need to continue to perpetuate.There was a choice for Ukraine, but when you think about Russia's economy today vs. Russia's economy before the sanctions were put in place, it's vastly different. Inflation in Russia still runs far higher than inflation anywhere else in the world. If you were a Russian citizen, you would feel the impacts of sanctions.The challenge, of course, is that it hasn't changed Vladimir Putin's behavior or the behavior of the Kremlin, largely because they've had access to the goods and supplies they need from China, Iran, and North Korea. But over time, it means Russia's economy is becoming less competitive. They have less access to resources; they're going to struggle.I think everyone hoped that sanctions would immediately change the calculus of the Kremlin, but we've never seen that to be the case. When sanctions are effective, they take time, because the economic consequences continue to compound over time, and they have to be part of a larger strategy for the behavior of the individual. That's why I wrote the article, because while the Kremlin and Russia are under pressure, their view is that ultimately the West is going to get tired of supporting Ukraine, financially and politically, because the economic consequences for us — while not as significant as for Moscow or for Kiev — have been quite significant, when you think about the cost of living issues in Europe.I think it's important to write this now, when it appears that Russia is stalling on negotiations, because ultimately, US financial support is waning. We just know that the Trump administration is not willing to put more money into Ukraine, so Europe is going to have to do more, at a time when their economic situation is quite complicated as well.They've got a lot to do to build up their economy and their military-industrial base. Asking them to also increase their support for Ukraine at the same time is going to be quite difficult. So using this money that Russia owes to Ukraine — because they owe them compensation at this moment — can be quite influential in helping support the Ukrainians, but also changing Russia's calculus with regard to the ability of Ukraine to sustain itself.Kyla: On CNBC about a month ago, you said if we ever have a recession over the next couple of months or so, it would be a self-inflicted one. Do you still resonate with that idea? To build on the point I was making, the economy has done quite well over the course of the first few months of the year, largely because of the strength of the consumer, where our balance sheets are still quite strong. Companies in America have done well. The biggest headwind the US economy faces has been self-inflicted by the tariffs the president has put on. Part of what I still do is talk to CEOs of companies, big and small. Small businesses feel the impact of this even more than the big businesses. What they tell me is that it's not just the tariffs and the fact that they are making it more expensive for them to get the goods that they need, but it's the uncertainty created by the off-again, on-again, nature of those tariffs that makes it impossible for them to plan for what supplies they're going to get the next quarter. How are they going to fulfill their orders? What employees are they going to need? It's having a real impact on the performance of these companies, but also their ability to hire people and plan for the future.If you go to the grocery store, you're going to start seeing — and you're starting to see already — price increases. The thing that Americans care most about is, the cost of living is just too high. You're at the grocery store, as you're shopping for your kids for the summer, you're going to see costs go up because of a self-imposed tax we've put in place. So I still do think that if we do find ourselves in a recession, it's going to be because of the tariffs we've put in place.Even if we don't enter a technical recession, what we're seeing now is that those tariffs are going to raise the cost for people when they go out to buy things. It's going to raise the cost of building homes, which is going to make it harder for people to get houses, which is ultimately going to have an impact on the economy that isn't what I think the president or anyone wants at this point.Kyla: Is there anything else we haven't asked about? I think the place where we continue, as a country, to struggle is that, given the federal system we have, many of these problems aren't just in Washington — they're in state and local governments as well. When you think about the challenges to building more housing in this country, you can't just solve it by doing things at the federal level. You have to get state and local governments unified in taking a proactive approach. Part of this has to be not just financial or regulatory from the federal government, but we have to do more things that force state and local governments to get out of the way of people being able to build more housing. I think that the conversations that you've had on your show, and the conversations we're having in government, need to move past our regular policy conversations of: “Should we do more on LIHTC? Should we try to fix NEPA?” Those, to me, are table stakes, and we're in the middle of what I'd say is a generational crisis when it comes to housing. We have to be willing to treat it like a crisis, rather than what I think we've done so far, which is take incremental steps at different levels to try and solve this. That's one thing that I wanted to make sure that I said, because I think it's the most important thing that we can do at the moment.Kyla: Absolutely. During your time there, the Treasury was doing so much with zoning reform, with financial incentives. What I really liked about our last conversation was how much you talked about how important it is that workers can live close to work. Are you optimistic that we will be able to address the problem, or do you think we are sinking into quicksand?I'd say a little bit of both, and the thing that I'm doing now is getting hyperlocal. One of the projects I'm working on in my post-administration life is I'm working with 15 churches in D.C., where they have vacant land and want to use it to build affordable housing as quickly as possible.I'm learning that even when you have the land donated for free and you're willing to work as quickly as possible, it's still quite hard because you have regulations and financial issues that often get in the way of building things. Part of what we have to do now is just launch as many natural experiments as possible to see what works.What I've learned already from this lived experience is that even cities that are trying to get out of the way and make it easier to build housing struggle because of what you all know to be true, which is that the local politics of this is quite complicated. Oftentimes, the way that you get them over the line is by creating incentives or disincentives.In the past, I talked a lot about incentives in terms of “giving people money to do things.” I'm now in favor of “not giving money to people who don't do things” — if you don't take steps to fix your zoning, some of the federal money that you regularly get is not coming to your jurisdiction. I'm going to reallocate that money to places that are doing this activity. I think we have to take those types of radical steps.It's similar to what we did with the Emergency Rental Assistance Program, where if you didn't spend your money, we could take your money back and reallocate it to people who were giving away emergency rental assistance money.That motivates people a lot — when they feel like something's going to be taken away from them. I'm of the view that we have to find more radical things that we can do to get housing built. If we don't, costs will continue to rise faster than people's incomes.Santi: Wally, I have to ask after that point you just made: did you read the paper by my colleague Chris Elmendorf on using LIHTC funds? The idea is to re-allocate those federal funds away from big, expensive cities and into other places in a state, if the cities don't commit to basic zoning reforms.I completely agree with him, and I think I would go even further than just LIHTC money. I would reallocate non-housing money as well, because from my standpoint, if you think about the most important issue for a family, it's being able to find housing that is affordable near their place of work and where their kids go to school. I said that on purpose. I didn't say “affordable housing.” I said “housing that is affordable,” because affordable housing is, in lots of ways, targeted towards a population of people who need it the most. But for even people who are middle income in this country, it crowds out their ability to pay for other things when housing costs continue to creep higher.The only way we solve that problem is if you get rid of restrictive zoning covenants and fix permitting. The natural thing that every city and state is thinking about right now is throwing more money at the problem. There's going to need to be money here, just in light of some of the headwinds, but it's going to be more costly and less effective if we don't fix the underlying issues that are making it hard to build housing where we want it.Right now in California, we're having a huge debate over what we do with infill housing in urban areas. A simple solution — you don't have to do another environmental review if one was already done in this area— is taking months to work through the California legislature, which demonstrates that we're going too slow. California's seeing an exodus of people. I just talked to a CEO who said, “I'm moving my business because the people who work for me can't afford to live in California anymore.” This is the kind of problem that you can solve. State legislatures, Congress, and executives have to get together and take some radical steps to make it easier to build housing.I appreciate what you said about what we were doing at Treasury, but from my standpoint, I wish we had done more earlier to focus on this issue. We had a lot going on, but fundamentally, the most important thing on housing is taking a step to try and build housing today, which is going to have an impact on the economy 10, 20, 30 years from now. We just have to start doing that as soon as possible.Thanks to Emma Hilbert for her transcript and audio edits. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.statecraft.pub

May 29, 2025 ~ Lloyd, Jamie, and Kevin talk with Congressman Bill Huizenga about a Senate run, supporting the "one big, beautiful bill", and bipartisan efforts on finding savings. Also, talk with Michigan Deputy Secretary of State Aghogho Edevbie about focusing on election security, exploring AI for election integrity, and much more!

Tevi Troy, author, historian, and former Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services, joins the program to explore the epic clashes between U.S. presidents and powerful CEOs. He explains how these power struggles have been a historical norm—shaping public policy, shifting industries, and redefining the balance between government and business. We also examine the growing need for institutions to embrace diverse thought and open dialogue, rather than clinging to the tightly controlled intellectual echo chambers that dominate today's universities and policy circles.You can find Tevi Troy on his website at https://TeviTroy.org 

A 2021 Department of Justice investigation concluded that former Governor Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed 13 women, fostering a toxic workplace culture defined by power abuse, intimidation, and retaliation. In 2020, Lindsey Boylan did something brave and necessary. After years of working under former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, she became the first woman to publicly accuse him of sexual harassment. Her voice cracked the silence, and eventually, 13 women in total came forward as part of a Department of Justice investigation that began under the Biden administration. That courage forced Cuomo to resign, but now he's back, eyeing one of the most powerful posts in the resistance to Trump: New York City Mayor. Boylan's story is a warning. She worked closely with Cuomo from 2015 to 2018, first as the Chief of Staff at Empire State Development and later as Deputy Secretary for Economic Development. She resigned when the environment became, in her words, “more and more toxic.” When media reports floated Cuomo possibly joining the Biden administration as Attorney General, Boylan took to Twitter, risking everything to speak out. And now? Just last week, in the middle of the NYC mayoral primary, Cuomo flirted with a female radio host on air, asking her out on a date. That's Cuomo gloating that even he can stage a comeback, like Trump, after costing taxpayers tens of millions of dollars in legal bills fighting sexual harrassment claims. America cannot afford a sexual predator in the White House and in charge of one of our biggest cities, especially with activists, immigrants, and real journalists increasingly vulnerable to MAGA's creeping fascism. Share this interview with voters you may know in NYC. And New Yorkers, the mayor's race matters. Use ranked-choice voting wisely: do not rank Cuomo at all. Want to enjoy Gaslit Nation ad-free? Join our community of listeners for bonus shows, ad-free episodes, exclusive Q&A sessions, our group chat, invites to live events like our Monday political salons at 4pm ET over Zoom, and more! Sign up at Patreon.com/Gaslit! Show Notes: The woman who brought down Andrew Cuomo: ‘I dropped a nuclear bomb on my life' https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/andrew-cuomo-chris-accuser-harrassment-b1926405.html Former New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed at least 13 women, DOJ says https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/26/cuomo-subjected-at-least-13-women-to-sexually-hostile-environment-doj.html U.S. Department of Justice opened civil investigation into sexual harassment claims against Andrew Cuomo https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-cuomo-sexual-harassment-federal-civil-investigation-department-justice/ New Yorkers Are Paying Over $60 Million for Andrew Cuomo's Legal Fights https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-24/andrew-cuomo-legal-bills-over-sex-harassment-covid-paid-by-ny-taxes                      

To coincide with International Human Resources Day (May 20th), this special compilation episode of AI and the Future of Work explores the promises and pitfalls of AI in hiring.HR leaders are under pressure to innovate—but how can we automate hiring ethically, avoid bias, and stay compliant with evolving laws and expectations?In this episode, we revisit key moments from past interviews with four top voices shaping the future of ethical workforce automation:

Ambassador Sullivan served as Deputy Secretary of State from 2017 to 2019. He then became Ambassador to the Russian Federation serving as Ambassador from 2019 to 2022. He served in both the Trump and Biden Administrations in the lead up to and early in the Ukraine War.

Eneasz is absent today, to Kelsey Piper joins Wes and David to keep the rationalist community informed about what's going on outside of the rationalist communitySupport us on Substack!Followups:The biggest terrorist attack on India soil since 2008 by Pakistani funded terroristsFederal judge says Trump can deport illegal aliens under the Alien Enemies Act, but must give 21-day notice and opportunity for hearingDifferent judge said Trump can't deport illegal aliens to countries where they aren't citizens without due processSCOTUS also halted some deportationsNew News:China tariffs lowered to 30%Trump even more openly taking bribesWe're accepting white refugees!Deputy Secretary of State: exception to asylum pause for people if they “did not pose any challenge to our national security and that they can be assimilated easily into our country"African National Congress: “No section of our society is hounded, persecuted, or subject to discrimination”Trump EO: pharma companies must sell drugs at “most favored nation” pricingTrump EO: “it is the policy of the United States to ensure the total elimination of [assorted drug cartels]'s presence in the United States, and their ability to threaten the territory.”Strikes by assorted federal law enforcement agencies against cartel bases in Texas, Colorado, Utah, and Montana.FDA doing an investigation into ingestible fluoride supplements with the goal of banning themFDA: “Ingested fluoride has been shown to alter the gut microbiomeJoe Biden diagnosed with “aggressive” prostate cancerMoody's downgraded US credit rating to Aa1Trump agreed to a ceasefire with the HouthisNo ceasefire with IsraelHappy News!We've transmuted lead into gold!Germany backing off its anti-nuclear energy policy to strengthen ties with FranceSupport AskWho Casts AI!Got something to say? Come chat with us on the Bayesian Conspiracy Discord or email us at themindkillerpodcast@gmail.com. Say something smart and we'll mention you on the next show!Follow us!RSS: http://feeds.feedburner.com/themindkillerGoogle: https://play.google.com/music/listen#/ps/Iqs7r7t6cdxw465zdulvwikhekmPocket Casts: https://pca.st/vvcmifu6Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-mind-killerApple: Intro/outro music: On Sale by Golden Duck Orchestra This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mindkiller.substack.com/subscribe

Gov. Spencer Cox has been hosting the U.S. Deputy Secretary of Labor today as they tour the Utah Electrical Training Alliance and talk about the importance of apprenticeships for America's workforce. U.S. Deputy Secretary of Labor Keith Sonderling joined the show to give an inside look of the trip.

It has been over 100 days since President Donald Trump began his second term. During that time, Radio Advisory has received a steady stream of questions from leaders seeking guidance in an uncertain policy and business environment. With looming funding cuts, the restructure of HHS, the arrival of DOGE and MAHA, and more, leaders are grappling with what to focus on, how to respond, and how to engage productively with the federal government. To help answer these questions, Radio Advisory turned to policy experts from both parties to address your questions, acknowledge your anxieties, and highlight shared opportunities. This week, host Rachel (Rae) Woods welcomes Liz Fowler, former director of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation under the Biden Administration, and Eric Hargan, former Deputy Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services during the first Trump term. Together, they discuss how to navigate the shifting policies and priorities of the Trump administration's second term. Plus, stay tuned to the end of the episode, where co-host Abby Burns discusses the bill proposed by the House Energy and Commerce Committee that would reduce federal Medicaid spending by more than $600 billion over the next ten years. Links: Tracking the Medicaid Provisions in the 2025 Reconciliation Bill | KFF Ep. 244: What's happened in Washington (so far) and what policy changes we're bracing for Ep. 230: Elections results are in: What healthcare leaders need to know Thousands laid off at HHS: What you need to know Healthcare policy updates Listen to Radio Advisory's Health Policy playlist Subscribe to Advisory Board's Daily Briefing newsletter and get the most important industry news in your inbox – every day. A transcript of this episode as well as more information and resources can be found on RadioAdvisory.advisory.com.

5/22 Update: The House early Thursday narrowly passed the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, a budget bill that includes a number of healthcare provisions that could have a significant impact on Medicaid, Medicare, and the Affordable Care Act. It has been over 100 days since President Donald Trump began his second term. During that time, Radio Advisory has received a steady stream of questions from leaders seeking guidance in an uncertain policy and business environment. With looming funding cuts, the restructure of HHS, the arrival of DOGE and MAHA, and more, leaders are grappling with what to focus on, how to respond, and how to engage productively with the federal government. To help answer these questions, Radio Advisory turned to policy experts from both parties to address your questions, acknowledge your anxieties, and highlight shared opportunities. This week, host Rachel (Rae) Woods welcomes Liz Fowler, former director of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation under the Biden Administration, and Eric Hargan, former Deputy Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services during the first Trump term. Together, they discuss how to navigate the shifting policies and priorities of the Trump administration's second term. Plus, stay tuned to the end of the episode, where co-host Abby Burns discusses the bill proposed by the House Energy and Commerce Committee that would reduce federal Medicaid spending by more than $600 billion over the next ten years. Links: Tracking the Medicaid Provisions in the 2025 Reconciliation Bill | KFF Ep. 244: What's happened in Washington (so far) and what policy changes we're bracing for Ep. 230: Elections results are in: What healthcare leaders need to know Thousands laid off at HHS: What you need to know Healthcare policy updates Listen to Radio Advisory's Health Policy playlist Subscribe to Advisory Board's Daily Briefing newsletter and get the most important industry news in your inbox – every day. A transcript of this episode as well as more information and resources can be found on RadioAdvisory.advisory.com.

China is on the march, is very determined, and has some significant advantages over the U.S. What are they and how should we respond? Two esteemed China experts, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell and National Security Council Deputy Senior Director for China Rush Doshi, say the key is to counter China's enormous scale by finding common cause with allies.  Listen, and learn a lot.

With Israel conspicuously absent from Trump's first major Middle East trip, Christiane speaks with Biden's former Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman about the ethical concerns surrounding his overseas deals and meetings, the U.S. role in the war in Gaza, and new revelations about efforts by Biden's inner circle to conceal his decline ahead of the election. Then, Ukraine's former Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba, speaks to Christiane about what the country should reasonably expect and where the crisis stands now after Putin was a no-show for ceasefire talks in Turkey. Clare Sebastian reports on Russia's propaganda campaign to maintain its grip on the occupied Ukrainian port city of Mariupol. And, as the war in Gaza continues with no ceasefire in sight, Israeli Alon Lee-Green and Palestinian citizen of Israel, Rula Daood, co-directors of "Standing Together", a Jewish-Arab movement for peace, discuss their hopes for ending the conflict, and shared activism. Also, as the first group of white South Africans landed as welcome refugees in the U.S. this week, from Christiane's archive, her 1997 report on the long post-apartheid path to reconciliation in the country.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Delegations from Russia and Ukraine are due to meet in Turkey for peace talks but the leaders of both countries will not be present, despite President Putin proposing the talks take place. Moscow has notably withheld its top diplomatic heavyweights, which according to Zelensky, means the nation is "not serious" about peace. US President Donald Trump has weighed in, saying peace won't happen until he meets with Putin himself. Ukraine's former Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba joins the show in London to discuss  Also on today's show: former Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman; author Dr. Jerry Avorn  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does the future of industrial policy in America look like, and what state capacity investments are needed to get there? How does China factor into the future of the U.S. semiconductor industry? And what do government affairs offices at large technology firms actually do? To explore these questions, we're concluding our CSIS Chip Chat series with Bruce Andrews. Bruce has had a long career on Capitol Hill, led government affairs for Ford, served as Deputy Secretary of Commerce under President Obama, and most recently headed government affairs at Intel. He's now a fellow at CSIS. We discuss… The decline of bipartisanship and how to bring expertise back to Capitol Hill, The case for a new “Department of Competitiveness”  Industry's role in policymaking and what it took to get semiconductor manufacturers on board with the CHIPS Act, Why Silicon Valley suddenly became interested in politics, How to optimize industrial policy in a stick-focused political environment. Outro music: Moon River, Frank Ocean 2018 (YouTube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does the future of industrial policy in America look like, and what state capacity investments are needed to get there? How does China factor into the future of the U.S. semiconductor industry? And what do government affairs offices at large technology firms actually do? To explore these questions, we're concluding our CSIS Chip Chat series with Bruce Andrews. Bruce has had a long career on Capitol Hill, led government affairs for Ford, served as Deputy Secretary of Commerce under President Obama, and most recently headed government affairs at Intel. He's now a fellow at CSIS. We discuss… The decline of bipartisanship and how to bring expertise back to Capitol Hill, The case for a new “Department of Competitiveness”  Industry's role in policymaking and what it took to get semiconductor manufacturers on board with the CHIPS Act, Why Silicon Valley suddenly became interested in politics, How to optimize industrial policy in a stick-focused political environment. Outro music: Moon River, Frank Ocean 2018 (YouTube Link) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Frank Lavin talks about Russia, Ukraine, and the U.S. with John Sullivan, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia and former Deputy Secretary of State. John was serving in Moscow when Putin launched Russia's invasion of Ukraine and this was the basis for his book, “Midnight in Moscow.” John also recommends H.R. McMaster's “At War With Ourselves.”

SEASON 3 EPISODE 124: COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN A-Block (1:45) SPECIAL COMMENT: The new Trump plot to beg, borrow, or steal a third term has dropped (that makes four different) and it follows the others in that a) somebody besides Trump has suggested it AND b) they've made it seem harmless AND c) they've made it seem like Trump has nothing to do with it and probably won't do it anyway AND d) they'll leave it to the will of the people to decide to convince him to, reluctantly, violate the Constitution. The twist in this new one is, it's positioned as: "The Constitution is Unconstitutional!" - namely, that because only the presidency is term-limited among federal offices, this must be invalid and overturned. Not that Trump wants it to be overturned. No, YOU want it overturned. Not that HE wants to stay on. But YOU will want him to. People are still not taking it seriously and still see the 22nd Amendment as a bulwark against any possibility of it happening. I'll review the other three plots and the fact that they've been working on them since at least 2017, and why you should never ever keep your eye off their machinations, nor forget the Trump Political Mantra: I'm going to do it - TRY AND STOP ME. STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE: Trump and Stephen Miller are so scared that they won't get away with renditioning Kilmar Abrego Garcia that they have now thrown up the "State Secrets" crap to further stall his return. And they're talking about kidnapping people off our streets and sending them to Libya or Ukraine. And Trump's craziness continues to double as we get the back story on the movie tariffs and a redux on windmills and it makes me mad enough to SING ABOUT THE WINDMILLS IN TRUMP'S MIND. B-Block (49:30) THE WORST PERSONS IN THE WORLD: The far right's open racism is on display as a Minnesota woman calls a five-year old the N-word and a million dollars is raised to defend her. Laura Loomer employs one of Hitler's first catchphrases. And they so distrust the Deputy Secretary of State that they won't let him touch the thermostat in his office. C-Block (58:22) THINGS I PROMISED NOT TO TELL: This time of year in 1997 I saw a ghost. I know who he was. I know why he was there. I know why he was silently laughing at me. And I did what he wanted me to do. His name was Glenn Corneliess and there's a reason the new facilities of WVBR-FM in Ithaca, N.Y. are the Olbermann-Corneliess studios.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

During the past decade, public confidence in education has been declining. In this episode, SUNY Chancellor John B. King Jr. joins us to discuss his new book that provides a compelling narrative of the value of education in transforming lives. Chancellor King  has a long history of involvement with education. After graduating from Harvard, he acquired a Master's degree from Teacher's College at Columbia University and taught high school social studies. He later co-founded Roxbury Preparatory Charter School and served as a co-Director for five years. Under his leadership, students in this school attained the highest scores of any urban middle school in the state and closed the racial achievement gap. After acquiring his doctoral degree from Columbia and a law degree from Yale, Dr. King served as New York State's Education Commissioner from 2011 to 2014. He left NY for a while to work in the Obama administration as Deputy Secretary of Education from 2015 to 2016 and joined Obama's Cabinet as Secretary of Education from 2016 to 2017. Following his work in the Obama Administration, Dr. King continued to advocate for increased educational equity and access as President and CEO of the Education Trust. He now serves as Chancellor of the State University of New York. We're interviewing Dr. King in his role as the author of his new book and not in his role as the SUNY Chancellor. A transcript of this episode and show notes may be found at http://teaforteaching.com.

By May 7, all U.S. citizens are supposed to have their federally required “Real ID” so that they can travel by air or enter a federal building. But what about using them to register to vote to ensure they are legally present in the country and eligible to vote in our elections? The SAVE Act, introduced by Republican Texas Rep. (and University of Virginia alumnus) Chip Roy, recently passed the U.S. House of Representatives and now is awaiting action in the Senate. The SAVE Act, among other things, would require proof of citizenship for voter registration in federal elections and strengthen verification processes to ensure voter rolls only contained eligible citizen voters. The Daily Signal sat down with former Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, former Virginia Attorney General, and current National Chairman of the Election Transparency Initiative Ken Cuccinelli to talk about the bill's likelihood of making it to President Donald Trump's desk. Keep Up With The Daily Signal Sign up for our email newsletters: https://www.dailysignal.com/email     Subscribe to our other shows:  Problematic Women: https://www.dailysignal.com/problematic-women  The Signal Sitdown: https://www.dailysignal.com/the-signal-sitdown    Follow The Daily Signal:  X: https://x.com/DailySignal  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedailysignal/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDailySignalNews/  Truth Social: https://truthsocial.com/@DailySignal  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/DailySignal  Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/TheDailySignal    Thanks for making The Daily Signal Podcast your trusted source for the day's top news. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and never miss an episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tech billionaire Elon Musk has become one of the most influential figures in American politics thanks to his significant role in the second Trump administration. Despite his lack of political experience, Musk has become the leader of the Department of Government Efficiency, participates in some cabinet meetings, and even spent millions on federal and state elections. And though Musk's relationship with the White House may be unusual, it's not unprecedented. Senior Fellow at the Ronald Reagan Institute and former Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services Tevi Troy looks back at other political outsiders who played key roles in influencing presidents throughout history. President Trump's top domestic priority is the “Big, Beautiful Bill,” which includes key parts of his agenda like strengthening the border, bolstering defense capabilities, and extending the Trump tax cuts. While Republicans control both the House and Senate and seem broadly united on getting many—or all—of the items done, passage is not inevitable. Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds discusses the “Big, Beautiful Bill” and how it will wind up on the President's desk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eric and Eliot welcome former Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell and Rush Doshi, Assistant Professor of Security Studies at Georgetown University's school of Foreign Service and author of The Long Game: China's Grand Strategy to Displace American Order, to discuss their article in the current issue of Foreign Affairs, "Underestimating China: Why America Needs a New Strategy of Allied Scale to Offset Beijing's Enduring Advantages." They discuss China's massive advantages of scale in the strategic competition with the United States and the metrics that can be used to measure it including manufacturing capacity, not only in traditional industries but also in areas like biotechnology and aviation where the U.S. used to have the lead. They note how this translates into military production of ships, ballistic missiles, and drones. While acknowledging ongoing Chinese demographic, economic and environmental problems and continuing U.S. advantages they call for right-setting U.S. understanding of China rather than swinging from defeatism to triumphalism and back again. They examine the prospects for a U.S. led alliance to offset China's scale advantages but argue that it will require a new kind of alliance management by Washington policymakers that they call "capacity-centric statecraft." They also touch on the prospects of conflict over Taiwan in the next 5 years and whether it will take the form of a cross channel invasion or a blockade.

Today's podcast is focused on the BOGUS lamestream media story about the "wrongfully deported Maryland father".Check it out as two of the highest quality guest experts (Breitbart reporter Randy Clark, who has over 30 years of experience as a border patrol agent AND former acting Deputy Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Ken Cuccinelli) join our host, Mike Slater, to talk about the truth about what happened and why there's been so much leftist distortion on this pretty basic criminal illegal immigration incident!

Countries around the world are asking whether it is in their best interest to align  more closely with China or the United States. Kurt Campbell helped guide US-  China policy through multiple administrations and was Deputy Secretary of State  under Joe Biden. He joins Christiane for his first TV interview since leaving  government.    Also on today's show: Director Marcel Mettelsiefen discusses his new  documentary on the Israel-Palestine conflict, “A State of Rage”; business owners  Debbie Wei Mullin and Sarah LaFleur on the impact of the Trump tariffs  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

//The Wire//2300Z April 17, 2025////PRIORITY////BLUF: MASS SHOOTING ATTACK AT FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY, MULTIPLE CASUALTIES REPORTED. PLANE HIJACKED IN BELIZE, HIJACKER SHOT DEAD BY PASSENGER. DNI DECLASSIFIES DOCUMENT OUTLINING DOMESTIC DISARMAMENT INITIATIVES.// -----BEGIN TEARLINE----- -International Events-Belize: A man with a knife attempted to hijack a small Tropicair flight (registration: V3-HIG) this morning. During the regional flight, authorities state that American passenger Akinyela Sawa Taylor produced a knife and attempted to seize control of the aircraft. The hijacker's demands included transit out of the country, and enough fuel to do so. In the ensuing fray, multiple passengers were stabbed, with at least one passenger receiving severe lacerations. After some time, the pilots were able to barricade themselves in the cockpit to conduct an emergency landing at Philip S. W. Goldson International Airport. After the aircraft came to a halt on the runway, a brief hostage situation ensued before Taylor was shot dead by another passenger onboard the aircraft who had a firearm.AC: While it may seem odd for a passenger to have a gun on a plane, this was a local charter flight and the passenger who shot the hijacker was properly licensed as per the local police commissioner. Additionally, local authorities state that the hijacker was illegally in the country, and had been denied entry just a few days prior.  -HomeFront-Florida: An active shooter was reported at Florida State University this afternoon. Initial reports indicate that two separate gunmen conducted a complex small arms (SMARMS) attack at the FSU Student Union. As of this report, 2x victims are deceased, and 4x others are wounded. Reports have varied throughout the day, however many locals suggest that one of the shooters was neutralized at the scene by police, and the second shooter was taken into custody. One of the shooters has been identified as Phoenix Eichner, the son of a local Sheriff's Deputy who used his parent's service weapons in the attack.AC: This incident could meet the technical criteria for a Complex Coordinated Attack (CCA). For the past several days the Tallahassee Police Department has been warning locals of a training exercise that would involve loud explosions and sounds of gunfire. This exercise was scheduled for the exact time the shooting occurred. If this timing was deliberately chosen, this indicates more deliberate planning efforts on the part of the shooters, who likely sought to use the confusion of a training exercise to increase the effectiveness of their attack. Since one of the shooters has been identified as the son of a Sheriff's Deputy, he would probably have had even more knowledge of this drill taking place. Choosing to conduct an attack during a training exercise would have increased confusion on the part of first responders, maybe even delayed a response time, and would have reduced the number of people calling 911, since most people would have thought that gunshots would be related to the drill, and not a legitimate terror attack.Additionally, some of the videos and photos of the aftermath that are circulating social media right now are exceptionally anger-inducing for reasons that would not be wise to comment on at the moment.Virginia: Throughout the defense community, several personnel shakeups have taken place at the Pentagon over the past few days. So far, the list of personnel placed on suspension is as follows:1. Colin Carroll, Chief of Staff for the Deputy Secretary of Defense2. Dan Caldwell, Senior Advisor to the SECDEF3. Darin Selnick, Deputy Chief of StaffAll three have been placed on administrative leave following developments in investigations pertaining to various leaks of defense policy.AC: At the moment, it's not really clear as to what is going on. These firings

John speaks with Mike Pezzullo, former Secretary of Australia's Home Affairs Department (2017-2023), about the nation's historical resilience and current security challenges. They explore how Australia's early naval power deterred threats like German warships in WWI, yet today, the country faces a "real and present danger" from China's naval deployments, such as the recent task group in the Tasman Sea. Pezzullo warns that Australia's strategic sensibility has declined, leaving it vulnerable despite warnings from leaders like former Prime Minister Rudd in 2009. The conversation shifts to actionable solutions, emphasising the need for leadership to prioritise defence over social spending. Pezzullo suggests doubling maritime surveillance, investing in autonomous underwater drones, and fostering regional alliances to counter coercion without forcing nations to choose between the U.S. and China. He stresses that with political will, Australia can secure its freedom, drawing on past successes like economic reforms and border protection under leaders like former Prime Ministers Howard and Abbott. Michael Pezzullo is a former Australian public servant who served as Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs from 2017 until 2023. He was previously Secretary of the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, and Deputy Secretary of the Department of Defence. Michael has a BA (Hons) in History from Sydney University.