The Chief Exchange

In episode 66 of The Chief Exchange, we sit down with Fire Chief Dave McCabe and Police Chief Keith Cross of Aurora, Illinois. Together, they share how their strong relationship has helped shape a unified, innovative public safety culture in their city. From joint rescue task force training and mental health initiatives to advice for new recruits, this episode dives into what true collaboration between fire and police should look like—and why it matters.

What makes a great command staff — and how do you ensure your negotiations build the department, not break it? In this episode of The Chief Exchange, Chief Keith Bryer from Palm Beach Gardens Fire Rescue (FL) shares lessons from decades of leadership experience. You'll hear his best advice for identifying and empowering future leaders, creating healthier workplaces, and striking the right balance between labor and management. Chief Bryer also makes the case for a 24/72 shift schedule and offers insights into what makes department wellness programs actually work. Whether you're on the cusp of your first promotion or guiding an entire department, this episode equips you with practical strategies to lead well and negotiate even better.

In this episode, Fire Chief Dean Crispen of the San Francisco Fire Department shares lessons from his journey into administration and offers insight on what it takes to thrive at the top. He unpacks how to build strong collaboration when a new Mayor, Fire Chief, and Union President all step in at once — and why coaching youth sports surprisingly mirrors running a major fire department. From motivating teams with different drive levels to learning from others' missteps, Chief Crispen shares practical strategies that every leader can use. Plus, he discusses how living outside of your city's limits can shape — and sometimes challenge — department culture.

In Episode 63, Chief Paul Joseph of the San Jose Police Department reflects on the most significant transformations in law enforcement over the last 30 years—and how leaders can stay grounded through them all. From navigating crisis calls involving civilians in mental distress to leading efficiently while short staffed, Chief Joseph shares practical strategies and deep wisdom gained from decades of service. You'll hear why he believes every challenge holds opportunity and why the process of growth, even through adversity, is what truly defines leadership.

From Air Force discipline to Fire Service leadership, Chief Kenneth Pravetz brings a unique lens to the firehouse. In this episode Chief Pravetz shares how his military background shaped his leadership style, the surprising benefits of adding a 4th shift to your department, and why “luck” is often something you make for yourself. Plus, hear how cold exposure—yes, ice baths—can help manage stress in high-pressure environments. This is an episode for leaders looking to push limits, innovate, and inspire.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange, Alec speaks with Executive Director of The Curve, Chris Hsiung — a trailblazer in modern law enforcement, former Undersheriff and Police Chief. Chris shares how he found new purpose after retirement, and how social media can be a powerful leadership tool in public safety when used intentionally. This episode unpacks generational divides, addresses the most common misconceptions about Chiefs and Sheriffs using social platforms, and explores where the future of law enforcement is headed. Whether you're leading a department or looking to step into a leadership role, Chris offers three quick strategies you can use today to level up your impact — and explains how exchange programs can transform your agency's culture. Chris also sheds light on: silencing doubt, building trust, and protecting your personal brand while still being authentically visible.

What if law enforcement recruitment took a page from the playbook of pro sports teams? Sitting down with Alec Wons, Chief Stanley McFadden of the Stockton Police Department shares his top strategies for attracting top-tier talent, revealing the two best talent pools he recruits from. He also breaks down the challenges of stepping into a department as an external chief, the most critical quality he looks for in future leaders, and how social media can be a game-changer for engaging the community. Plus, hear why exploring other industries can offer the best solutions to law enforcement's toughest challenges.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Chief Jackson Baynard from Henrico County Fire (VA) shares key strategies for building a stronger, more sustainable fire service. From increasing hiring numbers with three proven strategies to tackling mandatory overtime head-on, Chief Baynard breaks down the pressing challenges facing departments today. We also discuss the rising costs and delays in acquiring apparatus, the power of networking, and why the most important investment a leader can make is in their people. Plus, if he had a genie's lamp, what would be his one wish for the fire service? Tune in for leadership insights and actionable takeaways you won't want to miss.

How do you rise to the top at an unprecedented pace? Police Chief Todd Bettison did just that—ascending through the ranks of the Detroit Police Department, serving as Deputy Mayor, and now leading DPD as Chief. In this episode, he shares key mindset shifts, the importance of mentorship, how his experiences as Deputy Mayor have made him a better Police Chief, why taking risks on yourself is the only way forward and so much more. Whether you're in law enforcement, leadership, or just want to achieve more in life—this episode is packed with growth insights you don't want to miss.

Philadelphia Fire Commissioner Jeffrey Thompson joins The Chief Exchange Podcast with Alec Wons to discuss the mindset and leadership skills needed to take advantage of every opportunity. From transitioning into higher leadership roles to managing time effectively, Commissioner Thompson shares insights on delegation, relationship-building, and decision-making. He also dives into key topics like investing early, maintaining discipline, and the importance of mentorship. If you're looking for practical advice on success, leadership, and personal growth—this episode is for you.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange Podcast, former Chief Patrick Flannelly from the Lafayette Police Department shares why you are the only one who can place limits on yourself. He breaks down the importance of investing early and often, the staggering obesity rates in law enforcement (and how to combat them), and why excuses are the exact reason you need to take action. Plus, he discusses life after retirement in the private sector, the critical role of mentorship, and how discipline is the key to true freedom.

The fire service needs more women—but how do we get there? In this episode, Chief Toni Washington of Decatur Fire, GA, shares how departments can attract, recruit, and retain women in firefighting. From targeted outreach to fostering inclusive cultures, Chief Washington breaks down real solutions that work. Whether you're in leadership, recruitment, or simply passionate about diversity in public safety, this conversation will challenge and inspire.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec hears from former Police Chief Larry Scirotto of the Pittsburgh Police Department where Scirotto shares insights into the critical aspects of leadership, culture, and decision-making in law enforcement. Chief Scirotto discusses the qualities that make an effective leader, how to overcome hiring challenges, the importance of data in decision-making, and much more. Tune in to learn how to transform your department and improve the future of law enforcement leadership.

In Episode 53 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec talks to Durham Fire Chief Robert Zoldos about leadership, recruitment, and firefighter retention. Chief Zoldos shares how his time as a mayor gave him a unique edge in fire service leadership, along with proven strategies to attract and retain top talent. From advocating for pro-athlete-level pay to exploring innovative shift schedules, this episode is packed with insights every fire service leader needs to hear. Plus, we dive into why you should always practice harder than you perform and how to elevate risk management in your department.

In Episode 52 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec meets with Chief Smith of Atlanta Fire to discuss the art of operating in gray areas—when information is scarce, and decisions must be made. Chief Smith shares his insights on balancing logic and instinct, staying objective under pressure, and the key strategies he uses during budget season to secure top priorities. Plus, hear his innovative approach to recruitment and his 20-second elevator pitch on why firefighting is a career worth pursuing.

In Episode 51 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec sits down with Fire Chief Brian Marcos of Smyrna Fire (GA) to talk about leadership beyond limitations. Chief Marcos shares the top three traits all successful leaders possess, how to streamline internal email communications for efficiency, and why applying outer industry practices to the fire service is a game-changer. Plus, we dive into the art of setting priorities the right way. Whether you're in the fire service or leading in another industry, these insights will challenge you to think bigger.

In this milestone 50th episode of The Chief Exchange Podcast, we sit down with Fire Chief Brian Fennessy of the Orange County Fire Authority. With 46 years of experience in fire service, Chief Fennessy shares invaluable lessons from his career, including the challenges of transitioning from San Diego Fire to OCFA, managing the expectations of 25 bosses, and why sometimes breaking the rules is necessary. This episode delves into the power of accountability, the intent behind decisions, and the importance of knowing when to slow down as a leader.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange, Fire Chief Don Lombardi of West Metro Fire Rescue shares the secrets behind his decades of success in the fire service. From why kindergarten teachers have skills that translate to fire chief leadership, to the best investment a chief can make for their department, Chief Lombardi provides invaluable insights. Tune in to learn why compromise isn't always the answer and how to build strong partnerships that elevate your team.

What does a healthy, productive relationship between a Fire Chief and a Union President look like? In this episode of The Chief Exchange, Fire Chief Brad Brown of Grand Rapids Fire and Union President Joe Dubay dive into the keys to successful collaboration. Learn how Grand Rapids Fire navigates disagreements without arbitration, leverages data to build persuasive cases, and creates an environment so strong they attract over 900 applicants to their department. This insightful conversation is a must-listen for any department leader looking to foster teamwork, trust, and success.

How do you lead with purpose while navigating challenges like tight budgets and mental health concerns? In this episode of The Chief Exchange, Fire Chief Damon Covington of Oakland Fire shares actionable insights from over 25 years of service. From creating an impactful succession plan to raising department standards, empowering your team, and decompressing after stressful calls, Chief Covington delivers real-world advice for leaders in the fire service. Tune in to learn how to keep your department thriving while supporting your team and yourself.

In Episode 46 of The Chief Exchange, Alec Wons sits down with Former Miami Deputy Fire Chief Freddie Fernandez and Former Miami Police Department Commander Kim Caruso to explore the pivotal skills and strategies needed to thrive in leadership roles within public safety. From coaching and mentorship to distinguishing leadership from management, this episode dives deep into preparing for the position, not just the test. Tune in to discover why reviewing your “game tape” is essential, how to align your work with your customers' needs, and the critical role of honesty and self-awareness in leading others.

In Episode 45 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Chief Charles "Chuck" Broadway of the Clermont Florida Police Department to explore the deep connections between law enforcement and the communities they serve. Chief Broadway shares fulfilling moments from his career, actionable advice for enhancing community engagement, and a simple yet effective approach to improving the hiring process. Plus, discover how he manages stress while leading his department and why Clermont PD could be the perfect place for your law enforcement career.

In Episode 44 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Sheriff Kalvin Barrett of the Dane County Sheriff's Office to discuss leadership that drives meaningful change. Sheriff Barrett shares his perspective on leading with purpose, the profound impact of words on behavior, and how proper planning can lead to success. He also discusses why rehabilitation should take precedence over incarceration to create lasting change within communities. This is a conversation every leader should hear!

In Episode 43 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Fire Chief Frank McKinley of the Cincinnati Fire Department to dive into the key strategies for fostering leadership and growth within a department. From intentional hiring practices to tracking KPIs, Chief McKinley shares how constructive feedback and followership can transform your team. Tune in for actionable advice to enhance leadership, improve retention, and invest in your team's success.

In Episode 42 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Fire Chief Alec Oughton of Aurora Fire Rescue in Colorado to discuss the critical lessons learned from serving both the Navy and the fire service. They dive into the unique challenges of being an outside Chief, the importance of documenting your leadership journey, and why asking "why" can inspire change. You'll also hear how rapid population growth and media narratives are impacting the fire service and strategies for fostering authentic community engagement. This episode is packed with wisdom and insight for leaders at every level.

In Episode 41 of The Chief Exchange, Dr. Reginald Freeman, former Fire Chief of Oakland, CA, and Hartford, CT, shares his unparalleled insights into leadership, succession planning, and the art of navigating change. From tough transitions in his career to the importance of proactive leadership, Chief Freeman discusses how engineering the right environment can empower teams to achieve their full potential. Discover why CEUs are essential for saving lives, how life is like a game of chess, and why money isn't everything when it comes to true success.

In Episode 40 of The Chief Exchange, host Alec Wons sits down with Eddie Garcia to discuss the journey and challenges of becoming an outside Chief and transforming a department's culture. Eddie opens up about the importance of staying true to your roots, leading with authenticity, and the power of focusing on what's within your control. From boosting department morale to setting clear priorities, this episode is packed with insights on the personal and professional growth needed to lead effectively in public safety. Tune in for a conversation that will inspire you to build strength through support, stay true to yourself, and navigate the complexities of leadership with resilience.

In Episode 39 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, we sit down with Fire Chief Joe Pennino of the Roswell Fire Department. Chief Pennino shares his insights on the 5 core principles of leadership and the importance of fostering a “One Team Mindset” within the fire service. Learn how Roswell Fire Department transitioned from 225 part-time firefighters to 135 full-time professionals and why implementing a 48/96 shift schedule has been a game-changer for firefighter health and wellness. This episode delves into strategies for reducing fatigue, increasing response time efficiencies, and building strong relationships within the department. Tune in for actionable insights on leadership and wellness in the fire service.

In Episode 38 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, we dive into the unique journey of Fire Chief Chuck Ryan of the Tucson Fire Department. From a career in law to leading a major fire department, Chief Ryan shares his unconventional path and the lessons he's learned along the way. Discover his approach to tackling budget challenges, a game-changing strategy for increasing workforce retention, and his thoughts on strengthening recruitment in an era of shallow applicant pools. Tune in for insights on the power of patience, the importance of communication, and more. This episode is packed with wisdom for leaders looking to make a lasting impact in their organizations.

In Episode 37 of The Chief Exchange, we sit down with Police Chief Scott Hughes of Hamilton Township Police Department, Ohio, to discuss the three critical traits every leader must have, why officers should consider taking naps on duty, and the best strategies for recruiting and training new officers. Chief Hughes also shares why being a police officer is one of the toughest jobs in America and how leaders can help their teams thrive. For more on Chief Scott Hughes or to reach him, visit: https://www.objectivelyreasonable.com/expert-witnessing/

In Episode 36 of The Chief Exchange, Alec Wons sits down with Fire Chief Richard Kelley of Oklahoma City Fire Department to discuss what it takes to lead with resilience, focus on health, and foster diversity in thought and action. Chief Kelley delves into the importance of promoting physical and mental wellness within your team, building strong relationships, and how long-term injuries can impact both individuals and the department. He also breaks down his word of the year, "VUCA" (Volatility, Uncertainty, Complexity, Ambiguity), and why it's critical for fire service leadership. Don't miss this insightful conversation about prioritizing health and embracing inclusiveness to drive success.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange, host Alec Wons sits down with Chief Jack Cauley of the Castle Rock Police Department in Colorado. Chief Cauley shares the transformative impact of One-by-One Policing and explains why building an intentional culture is vital for any department. Listeners will gain valuable insights into promoting innovation, effective leadership in a new department, and the art of communication, all while learning about the subtle factors that influence an officer's decision-making process. Whether you're an aspiring leader or seasoned Chief, this episode is packed with actionable advice.

In Episode 34 of The Chief Exchange, Alec Wons speaks with Fire Chief John Butler of Fairfax County, Virginia, about his comprehensive approach to leadership in the fire service. Chief Butler delves into his "Wellness First" philosophy, highlighting the importance of health and well-being for both individuals and teams. He also discusses the critical role that diverse talent plays in building a successful department, as well as the connections between the Marines and fire service. Listen in for insights on how to prepare for the largest threats currently facing fire departments worldwide, and learn the difference between output and outcomes.

In Episode 33 of The Chief Exchange, Alec Wons sits down with Sheriff Robb Tadelman of McHenry County, IL, to explore the role of leadership in law enforcement, especially during times of crisis. Sheriff Tadelman shares the importance of empathy in public safety, how police social workers are changing the game, and the impact of focusing on officer wellness. Tune in to hear how McHenry County has achieved a remarkable 72% decrease in recidivism rates and how promoting resilience in your department can lead to healthier, more effective teams.

In Episode 32 of The Chief Exchange, Fire Chief Jack "J." Taylor of Pearland Fire Department, TX, sits down with Alec Wons to share his journey from football to fire service and back again. Chief Taylor dives into the leadership lessons he's learned on and off the field, including his 'secret sauce' for boosting the quality of recruits at Pearland Fire. Listen in as they discuss the parallels between sports and firefighting, why communication is key, and how even inaction is a form of action.

In Episode 31 of The Chief Exchange, Alec Wons sits down with Fire Chief Jason Wells of Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government to dive into the complex world of fire leadership. From the importance of having a diverse command staff to secrets for winning budget battles, Chief Wells shares actionable strategies for leading effectively. Learn how to combat rising call volumes with low staffing, tackle sleep deprivation, and improve the health and wellness of your firefighters. Don't miss his advice on creating a mentorship culture that thrives and preparing recruits for success in your department.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange, former Aurora Police Department Chief Kristen Ziman, the first woman in the department's history to serve as Lieutenant, Commander, and Chief, sits down with host Alec Wons. Kristen reflects on her groundbreaking career, how she navigated the emotional aftermath of mass shootings and the importance of controlling your mindset. She shares key insights on how "fear is a liar" and why playing the 'Worst Case Scenario' game helped her make tough decisions. Kristen's inspiring leadership story is one of resilience, courage, and belonging in a male-dominated field.

This episode features 10 guests who are all subject matter experts (SMEs) in their field of health and wellness. Dive deep with Dena Ali, Aaron Zamzow, Megan Lautz, Katie Dennison, Dan Kerrigan, Kepra Jack, John Miclot, Dr. Anne Germain, Frank Leeb and Chuck Downey. We discussed the topics of cancer, mental health, sleep, hydration, exercise, cardiorespiratory fitness, heart rate variability and more on first responder health and wellness.

In Episode 28 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Deputy Chief Brian Edmonston of Fairfax County Fire and Rescue. Chief Edmonston shares his insights on the importance of prioritizing physical fitness programs in fire departments and strengthening community risk reduction programs. He emphasizes the value of maintaining an "always learning" mentality and adopting proactive health habits. Discover why it's crucial to flip your internal switch of motivation and how to navigate the challenges of leadership in this engaging conversation.

In Episode 27 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Kevin Kesselman, Chief of New Jersey Institute of Technology Police Department. Chief Kesselman shares his insights on the evolution of policing, discussing the contrasts between autocratic and servant leadership, and the importance of empathy in modern law enforcement. He also explores effective strategies to increase the number of women officers and the impact of community engagement versus community policing. Additionally, learn how one police dog can transform an entire community. Don't miss this enlightening conversation!

In Episode 26 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Michael DeStefano, Assistant Chief at Brevard County Fire & Rescue. Chief DeStefano shares his insights on what it means to be a true leader, how to build a robust training program, and ways to energize your department through competition. He also provides valuable tips on overcoming limiting beliefs. Tune in to gain practical leadership lessons and strategies for fostering a dynamic and motivated team.

In these few minutes, recent fire academy graduate, Alex Brown, answers the following questions about why he decided to become a firefighter: What made you go from being a D1 soccer player and recent college graduate to being a firefighter? What inspired you to become a firefighter at Chattanooga Fire Department in Tennessee specifically? What misconceptions did you have about being a firefighter that were not true after joining your department? What would you say to other people our age who are considering a career in the fire service, but haven't made the jump yet? Hopefully this information is helpful to Chiefs across the county when appealing to new recruits and for those who are considering a career in the fire service!

In Episode 25 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons hosts Fire Chief Amy Scheller from the Dubuque Fire Department. Chief Scheller shares her experiences and insights on the unique challenges females face in the fire service, balancing tradition with innovation, and enhancing recruitment processes. She also discusses how to reframe failure as a stepping stone to success. Tune in for an inspiring conversation filled with valuable lessons and actionable tips for leaders in public safety.

This special episode is a recording of your host, Alec Wons, being interviewed by Deputy Fire Marshal Travis McGaha from Concord Fire Department in North Carolina on his podcast "All Clear." Learn why first responders need to prioritize their physical and mental health, why every change starts with you, the story behind "The Chief Exchange Podcast" and Alec's background before working with first responders.

In Episode 24 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Deputy Chief Steve Serbic of the Victoria Fire Department, BC, Canada, shares his insights on tackling mental health and anxiety in the public safety sector. Discover the importance of peer support and the simple yet profound impact of asking someone if they are 'okay'. Steve Serbic discusses practical steps to prevent suicide among first responders and emphasizes that wellness is the outcome of collective and individual efforts. This episode provides valuable perspectives for anyone committed to the well-being of public safety professionals.

In this episode of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Deputy Commissioner of Operations Kaz Daughtry and Chief John Chell of the NYPD. They delve into the transition from field work to administration, the revolutionary role of drones in policing, and how to handle threats to yourself and your family. They also discuss the importance of education and continued learning, and provide insights on the realities faced by migrants entering New York. Tune in to hear valuable advice, including some unexpected dating tips, from these seasoned law enforcement leaders.

In Episode 22 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Deputy Chief Patrick Fale from Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue, OR, joins host Alec Wons for an enlightening conversation. Chief Fale delves into the nuances of fast and slow brain thinking in decision-making, explains why culture trumps strategy, and shares his perspective on how 'bad news' can actually be 'good news.' He also discusses the key components of health and wellness that Chiefs should focus on in their departments and explores the differences between policy and people problems. Don't miss this episode filled with invaluable insights and leadership lessons.

In Episode 21 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, host Alec Wons sits down with Greg Flynn, Fire Chief of West Bloomfield Fire, MI. Chief Flynn shares invaluable insights on navigating difficult conversations when promoting from within, the importance of setting expectations early, and the distinction between leadership and management. He also discusses strategies to mitigate bullying in the department and emphasizes the significance of mental health with The Yellow Rose Campaign. Tune in for an inspiring conversation filled with actionable advice and heartfelt wisdom.

In Episode 20 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, host Alec Wons sits down with Jeffery Norman, Chief of Police at Milwaukee Police Department. Chief Norman shares his insights on the power of preparation, the importance of holding others accountable, and the critical role of frequent community engagement. He discusses innovative approaches to recruiting new personnel and the extensive planning involved in preparing for the upcoming Republican National Convention (RNC) in Milwaukee. Chief Norman emphasizes the importance of expanding your network and shares his mantra, “Develop. Mentor. Coach.” Tune in for an episode packed with leadership wisdom and practical advice for public safety professionals. (Note: the episode was recorded in March of 2024)

In Episode 19 of The Chief Exchange Podcast, Alec Wons sits down with Fire Chief Daniel Munsey and Deputy Chief Martin Serna from San Bernardino County Fire Protection District. They delve into the secrets of building a powerful command staff, the strategic decision-making process of hiring from within versus bringing in an outside Chief, and how one firefighter's actions changed the trajectory of their department. This episode also explores the one trait that all successful leaders exhibit and the importance of having a growth mindset. Join us for a conversation filled with insights on leadership, recruitment, and personal passion.

Join us for an insightful episode of The Chief Exchange Podcast as we sit down with Chief Aaron Lipski of Milwaukee Fire Department and Chief Dennis Rubin of Kansas City Kansas Fire Department. In this episode, we delve into critical topics such as diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the fire service, the importance of a strong relationship between administration and unions, and the debate over entering abandoned, burning buildings. Discover strategies to ensure firefighters reach retirement healthy and ready for the next chapter. With decades of experience and leadership, Chiefs Lipski and Rubin provide valuable perspectives and practical advice for current and future fire service leaders.