Podcast appearances and mentions of kira hug

What makes a good newsletter? How about "unfiltered stories and what we learn from them?" For this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed business strategist Kristin Kenzy, the writer and strategist behind the Drunk Business Advice newsletter. Kristin's formula for figuring out what makes a good story for sharing in email or newsletters is gold. As is her "accordion pitch" process. Don't miss this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Kristin's Newsletter The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Okay before we get into our interview… long time listeners are probably wondering, what's up with the new music? For the past five-ish years, we've been using a bit of music composed for us by Addison Rice. But after so many years, it just felt like it was time for a change. So the music is different for the new year and we'll see if we can't go another five years or so with this new mix. On top of that, you've probably noticed that I've been hosting the podcast for the past six months without my one-time co-host Kira Hug. Enough people have asked what's up with that, that it's probably time to let you all know what's up. I mentioned this briefly on one of our throwback episodes, but to make sure you don't miss it… I wish there was a juicy story here, or a controversy, a messy falling out worthy of the pages of People magazine, but there's not. Last year Kira told me that after seven years working on The Copywriter Club, that this project just didn't light her up like it used to, and she was ready for a different kind of challenge. So we worked to slowly move her out of her daily role at The Copywriter Club. Kira's still officiallly—legally—a partner behind the scenes, but is no longer working on Copywriter Club projects. We're still friends. There was no drama… just time for a change.  At the time I considered ending the podcast, but whenever I mentioned ending the podcast to someone I trusted, they all said, “no, you can't do that… this podcast is too important for writers who want a look into how other people are running their businesses.” And on top of that I really enjoy talking with copywriters and other marketing experts about this thing we all do. It's still lighting me up and I've got some great guests coming in the next few weeks, so hopefully you'll all stay tuned to see what's coming next. I'm still committed to our original promise of sharing strategies and ideas you can steal and use in your own business. Speaking of great guests… my guest today is business strategist and story teller Kristin Kenzy. Kristin writes one of my favorite newsletters, Drunk Business Advice. In it, she combines interesting marketing take-aways with fantastic storytelling that makes me (and thousands of other readers) look forward to it each week. I wanted to talk with Kristin about her approach to finding and writing the stories she shares. The formula she uses to figure out if a story is worth telling is excellent and she walked me through during our interview. We also talked about why writers need to stop journaling and a better way to pitch prospects in person… something Kristin calls “accordian pitching”. It's good stuff, so stay tuned to hear what she had to share. Before we jump into this interview, we've got some really great guest trainings lined up in The Copywriter Underground this month… one on building connections with prospects and clients without burning out on social media. If you're like me and struggle to show up on social media consistently, this one will change your approach entirely. And a second training on landing a “real” in-house job—either part time or full time—if you are looking for something a little more stable than freelancing is. Ironicallly, copywriters are bad at telling our own career stories and this workshop will show you what to do if you want to land one ...

In another throwback episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we're taking a deeper look at goal setting and a proven process to help you get more done in 2025. Dave Ruel, the author of Done by Noon, walks through his framework for setting goals (or intentions) and making sure they happen—before noon. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Done by Noon by Dave Ruel 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman Get Dave's workshop in The Copywriter Underground The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you're listening to this episode as it goes live, today is the final day of 2024. Many of us are looking forward to the new year and new opportunities to grow and get things done. I'm not a big fan of resolutions. They tend to be good for a few weeks, but after 4 weeks are often forgotten. It's even a cliche now to mention how full gyms are on February 1 compared to January 1st. The drop off shows how ineffective resolutions can be for most of us. So what does work? Well, the past year or two I've focused more on behaviors rather than goals or resolutions. That is, making time to exercise every morning without a goal to lose weight or compete in a marathon or bench press a certain weight. Making time to do something every day is something I can do. This applies to other goals as well, like time spent reading rather than having a goal to read 24 books a year. By scheduling time to read every day, I can reach the 24 books read without setting a goal.  So that begs the question, how do you make sure you spend your time on the activities and behaviors that will get you closer to the person you want to be? A few years ago, we asked something similar of Dave Ruel, the author of Done by Noon. That book is one of my favorites when it comes to getting stuff done. My other favorite takes an almost completely opposite view of time management and getting stuff done and that's Oliver Burkeman's 4000 Weeks. I'll link to both in the shownotes in case you want to check them out. For today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I went back into the archives to resurrect this mostly forgotten interview with Dave Ruel. And while he does talk about goals, he shares a framework for making sure your schedule includes plenty of time for the behaviors you want to implement into your life. If you're looking to get more done in 2025, some of his ideas will help. Before I share what Dave told us, after this interview we realized that we wanted to go deeper with Dave and his system. So we recorded a workshop where he walks through everything what he shares during this interview… at an even deeper level. That workshop is one of the dozens of business focused trainings available right now in The Copywriter Underground. Coming up in January of 2025, we'll be adding several more, including a workshop for copywriters who want to work either part time or full time with a client. My friend Jessica, who spent 2 decades as a recruiter for a creative talent agency will share why copywriters are so bad at resumes and cover letters and what they need to do differently if they want to land a so-called “real” job. And Esai Arasi will be sharing how to build relationships with prospects at scale, without burning out on social media. Both of these workshops are happening in January and are completely free for Copywriter Underground members. If you want them… along with the time management workshop from Dave Ruel, go to thecopywriterlcub.com/tcu now to join. And like last week, you'll hear Kira Hug asking questions on this episode as it is a throwback to 2020 when she and I were co-hosting this podcast. Okay, with that let's jump in with Dave Ruel as he tells us how he became an entrepreneur focused on sharing better time management strategies… ———— Dave Ruel:  I'm going to go back to my days as a fitness athlete.

To get better at copywriting, you need to practice. But how do you get the right kind of practice (and perhaps a few portfolio samples in the process)? Copywriter Wendy Ann Jones joins us for the 404th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to share a new resource that helps you get the practice you need. We covered a lot more than that... you're going to want to stick around for this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson The Copywriter's Workout by Wendy Jones The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: There's one thing that all writers have in common… that is we write. We write for ourselves and our clients. It's writing every day that helps us get better at the craft. But if you're not working with a client, you might be wondering what do I write? How can you use your writing time to create writing samples that read as if they are real and help you get good writing practice?  Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I talked with copywriter Wendy Ann Jones. Wendy quit a corporate job in order to start her own business, but when it came time to practice, she realized there weren't a lot of resources out there to help. So she created that resource—a book of practice clients and projects you can use to get better at the craft of writing and perhaps even create a few portfolio samples worth sharing with potential clients. If you're looking for ways to build your portfolio, you'll want to listen to what Wendy has to share… Before we jump in with Wendy… We have a new gift for you as a listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sized guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. It's a bit like having a couple dozen of the best copywriters in your pocket advising you on how to find your next client. To get your copy, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket and download this new guide. And with that, let's go to our interview with Wendy Ann Jones. Kira Hug: Hi, Wendy. Let's just start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? OK. Wendy Ann Jones: So about February 2021 I was really super disillusioned with my job. I was working in corporate and I loved it. I did love it and it was very fast moving, very motivating and then the company took a turn and it was a bit boring. It was a bit boring, a bit dull, and there wasn't anything to learn. And I'm quite a lifelong learner. I'm always obsessed with learning things and like to be occupied and busy. And I was also going through the start of the perimenopause, which, you know, I'm sure a lot of women, women similar age to me will be like, yeah, nodding their heads. And I kind of thought, oh, I need to change, to do something different. I found a copywriting ad. It popped up on my Facebook, and it was like, oh, would you like to work the hours you want to work? And would you like to live wherever you want? And would you like to, you know, all these things? And I was like, yes, yes, that's exactly what I want. Yes, please. Yes, yes. And I've said this a few times before, but it was just that hook was my introduction to copywriting, right? Because it was like they were talking. exactly to me at the time that I needed them and I went on to like a free webinar it's like a five-day little mini training course and I loved it and then I signed on straight away obviously for a full-on copywriting course there and then and yeah just took part in that and obviously the key to that was find yourself ...

What's possible as a content creator? If you don't want to be a  CMO or VP of marketing, how high can you rise? Amanda Natividad joined us for the 403rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and shared her thoughts about how writers can carve out a role as an individual contributor and what that looks like. She also talked about research, growing an online audience and how not to add to the social media noise. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: SparkToro Amanda's Website The Brian Kurtz episode Rob mentioned The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Building an online platform on social media where you can share your thoughts has become an important part of a lot of copywriter's businesses. A platform like this can be a source of leads as well as a place to grow your influence and share your thoughts. Whether you do it on Twitter, Linkedin, Instagram or somewhere else, it's more important than ever. And when you do it right, your platform can be a launch pad for all kinds of things—including a writing position where you get to not only do the work you love, but define the way you do it. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I talked with content creator and VP of Marketing at SparkToro, Amanda Natividad. Amanda landed her position by posting great content online and interacting with others on her chosen platform—Twitter. We talked about that as well as how content creators might create individual contributor roles for themselves, how to research using a tool like SparkToro, the platform Amanda would probably choose today if she were starting over and a lot more. This is a great interview with lots of insights. So stick around… Before we jump in with Amanda… We have a new gift for you as a listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sized guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. It's a bit like having a couple dozen of the best copywriters in your pocket advising you on how to find your next client. To get your copy, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket and download this new guide. And with that, let's go to our interview with Amanda Natividad.   Kira Hug: Well, let's start with your story. I'd love to hear how you ended up as the VP of Marketing at SparkToro and how you got there. Amanda Natividad: Yeah. This could be too long of a story. Let's see. Go for the whole hour. Rob Marsh: Let's make sure we talk about the test kitchen, all of it. Amanda Natividad: It all started when I was born. No, I'm kidding. No, let's see. Here, I'll try to do my best here. You would think at this point I would be good at this, but I'm not. So here we go. I'll say I was a marketer like in the trenches for what, at least eight years or so before I ever started publishing online, like under my own name, here are my marketing thoughts. Here are my thoughts and work. And once I decided to do that, I was basically all in. Like I kind of just tend to be the kind of person where I'm either in or out. There's no in between. Right. So when I decided to do it, I really went all in. I went all in on writing Twitter threads. Eventually started a personal site and a personal newsletter and then grew that and then slowly expanded onto LinkedIn and stuff. Along this journey, one of my marketing heroes, Rand Fishkin, followed me back, which of course meant that I was mortified instantly and was like, well, now I can't tweet anymore. I think I closed the app for the day and was like, I think I'm done, guys. I got to be quiet now. 

Finding clients is hard. And it might even be getting harder. But that doesn't mean you can't do it. In fact, there are lots of copywriters who don't struggle to book clients for weeks or months into the future. So how do you do it? On the 401st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with client acquisition specialist, Ryan Guthrie, about the three ways to get clients. We go into depth on this. You're going to like it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: It doesn't matter how good you are as a writer, if you don't have good, high-paying clients, you will never have a successful copywriting business. It all comes down to your ability to attract, connect with, and get hired by business owners who will pay you to help them tell their story. And even though we've talked about this topic a lot on this podcast, it seems as if there's always more to learn. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I talked with copywriter and client acquisition specilist Ryan Guthrie. Like many of us, Ryan started out as a copywriter. But he cracked the code on finding clients early on, so other copywriters began asking him for help with their own pipelines. And he shared a lot of how he does it in today's interview. But before we jump in with Ryan… We have a new gift for you as a listener to the copywriter club podcast. We went through the past 400 episodes of this podcast looking for the ideas that our guests have shared over the past couple of years related to finding clients. We pulled out a bunch of our favorites and compiled them into a new pocket sixed guide that will inspire you as you look for ways to attract the right clients to your business. Ryan shares how he does it on this episode. But once you're done listening, or now if you are near your phone or computer, visit thecopywriterclub.com/pocket to download your own copy of this new guide. And with that, let's go to our interview with Ryan Guthrie... Kira Hug: All right, Ryan, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a client acquisition consultant? Ryan Guthrie: By doing a lot of other things first. I started copywriting in February of 2020, which is an awesome time to start something new. But I was going to be a nurse, right? And I just kind of fell out of love with it. I didn't want to go to work every day and see people having the worst day of their lives. And so I kind of dropped out of college a little bit. And my girlfriend at the time, who's now my fiance, said, Hey, you're a pretty good writer. Here's this course that showed up on my Instagram feed. It's an ad, take a look at it. So I took a look at it. And I was like, I can do this. Sure. It was a copywriting course. I can, I can do this. And so I like, fully dropped out of college and bought this course with all my savings to the horror of my mother. She was like, you know what, you go do this for a year and we'll see what it looks like after a year and then we'll talk about this again, right? So I did that, and so I worked at my regular job from like six to three, six in the morning, three in the afternoon, and then I would get home and I would just do copywriting stuff, right, from like four to like 10, doing hand copy and just trying to learn as much as I could going through this course. After about three months, I got my first client, and it's a funny story, people always think they need to be super polished for that first client. I did my first sales call in the parking lot of a Trader Joe's, And I took notes on the back of an organic cookie box. So just throwing that out there. That was my first ever sales call. I got that client. He paid me $400 for some emails. And then I was like, this is it.

*Boom* This is the 400th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And our guest for this episode is the CEO of The Nonfiction Authors Association, Stephanie Chandler. She recently published the Nonfiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan and we thought it would be great to find out more about how to write, publish and launch a book into the world. Stephanie did not disappoint. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Nonfiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan by Stephanie Chandler The Nonfiction Author Association The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Transcript: Rob Marsh: Before I introduce today's guest and episode, this is the official 400th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. I'm not sure Kira and I ever envisioned this podcast going this long. In fact, other than wanting to have deep discussions that asked hard questions of expert copywriters, I'm not sure what we expected.  So many people have told us they are copywriters today because they were inspired by this podcast. Or by the stories our guests have shared. Or because they jumped into one of our programs designed to help them grow. So I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for making this podcast the world's most popular copywriting podcast. And now on to today's show… We've talked about writing a book on this podcast several times. But it's one thing to want to write a book, and another thing to have the tools and plan to make it happen. So when I got a copy of The Non-fiction Book Marketing and Launch Plan, I thought we should probably interview the author on the podcast and dive into what it takes to write and launch a book. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And for today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I talked with former copywriter and current CEO of the non-profit author's association, Stephanie Chandler. Stephanie founded the Non-fiction author's association, so she was the perfect person to talk to about this subject as well as when you should take a leap of faith you might not be ready for and what gets taken when thieves rob a bookstore.  But before we jump in with Stephanie…  There's a question that clients ask before they decide whether something you write is worth paying a lot or a little for. That question is “Can I do this?” Most clients can write a blog post. Or an email. It might not be as good as the one you would write, but they could do a passable job. Those projects don't feel all that valuable because clients can visualize themselves creating them. They're not hard. Fewer clients think they can strategize and build an acquisition funnel. Or a sales page. Or a book. So these projects are more valuable to clients (which means you can charge more to do them). And almost no clients have the skills to manage sophisticated email marketing tools like Klavio, ActiveCampaign, or even ConvertKit. And if they do, they're often too busy to do this work themselves. These skills are among the most valuable of all. So how do you add a skill like managing email marketing tools to your copywriting services? This week in The Copywriter Underground, we'll show you. We've invited guest expert and email strategist Matt Brown to share exactly how to make sure your client's emails get into their customer's inboxes. And how to use this skill to set yourself apart from all the other “I-just-write-copy” copywriters out there. It's a master class for all members of The Copywriter Underground and you can join us if you visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu today. But do it today, because if you're listening to this a few days after the podcast comes out, it will be too late. Having these skills, makes getting hired by high-paying clients easier. But you have to opt in to get the training. And with that, let's go to our interview with Stephanie.

When you start writing copy at age 16, you've got to connect with prospects and stand out or you won't be able to compete with more experienced copywriters. And that's exactly what Emilia Tanase, our guest for the 399th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast did. Rob and Kira asked Emilia about how she launched her business, how she connected with two high-level mentors, and her approach to writing emails. There's a lot of good stuff in this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: Get Rich Lucky Bitch by Denise Duffield-Thomas The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Emilia's website   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Over the past 7 years of this podcast, we've interviewed a really wide variety of people who have made a living out of writing copy and content. They come from all over the world and from all kinds of different backgrounds. But I think today's guest is different from all of them in at least one way—she started working as a copywriter when she was still in high school. She's taken a pretty interesting path to copywriting success and her early start is just a small part of her story. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Emilia Tanase. Emilia has discovered the formula for getting noticed by mentors and figuring out ways to get found by clients without pitching. As you might imagine, starting out in high school meant she's had to hustle to figure out how to make business work. And there's a lot to learn from Emilia's story.   Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in The Copywriter Underground that's absolutely critical for anyone who writes emails—either for their own business or for their clients. Copywriter and email deliverability expert Matt Brown will be sharing his hard won secrets for getting emails into the inbox—rather than the promotions or spam tabs in gmail, yahoo and other bigger email programs. This takes much more than avoiding a few smammy words or reworking your subject lines. And when you know how to do this, clients will hire you to not just write emails, but to manage their web marketing strategy. It could be a game changer for your busienss. But as are most of the masterclasses we curate, this training is exclusively for members of The Copywriter Underground. You can learn more about this upcoming masterclass at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And with that, let's go to our interview with Emilia... Kira Hug: All right, Emilia, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Emilia Tanase: It actually it goes back in time to when I was 16. I started when I was in high school because my mom got really sick and so she was really struggling with keeping up with our bills and holding the household together Unfortunately, at the same time, my dad also lost his job. So she was the sole provider and money was really scarce. And when you're in a small Romanian town, it's pretty hard to find a job right away. So me, a teenager at the time, I was like, hey, how can I make some pocket money, help my parents out, make this a bit easier for all of us, if I can.  I went online and of course I typed in, how to make money in high school. And, you know, there were the typical answers, like, wash cars or walk dogs and whatnot, but these are not really jobs that we do here in Romania. In America, sure, but here not so much. And then I found, be a copywriter or do copywriting work. I was like, what is copywriting? It sounded like, you know, patenting some intellectual property. But I Googled it and I found out it was like this whole thing that people were doing for other businesses.  And when you're that young, you don't think that much about things. So I was like, oh, I can do this for sure. So of course,

The number of people who have listened to all 400+ episodes of The Copywriter Club is likely small. Probably fewer than 100. But today's guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast is trying to add to that number. Copywriter Lauren Esmay has been listening to every episode and posting about them on LinkedIn. We talked about that as well as how she's built her business over the past few years and what's coming next. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The P7 Client Attraction System The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: In the next couple of weeks we'll post the official 400th episode of this podcast. Unofficially we're already past that number as we've had a handful of un-numbered episodes posted between the official one. If you were going to listen to every episode, I estimate it would take you about 14 days or so without stopping to eat, sleep or do anything else. I'm not suggesting you do that… but I'm not NOT suggesting that you do it either. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Lauren Esmay. Lauren recently took it upon herself to listen to every episode of this podcast and she's been posting her take aways from each episode on LinkedIn. Looking back on what she shares has reminded me of a lot of great, forgotten advice and ideas and insights shared by so many smart copywriters over the years. And as you'll see as you listen to today's episode, Lauren has used this content tactic to connect with a who's who of experts in the copy and marketing world. That's not all we talked about, so stick around to here more about Lauren's story. Before we jump into the interview, you know I'm going to talk a bit about the best copywriter community The Copywriter Underground. We are working hard to make it the most valuable copywriting community and training vault available anywhere. So we're constantly adding the latest information and help for our members. One thing that has changed recently is the standard Google, Yahoo and other big emailers are using to determine where the email you send ends up. Sometimes that's the inbox. Sometimes it's the spam or promotions folders. And sometimes they decide not to send your email at all. It's true. You hit send, your email service provider sends your message out into the ether… and Google can simply decide that's as far as it goes. So we've invited email deliverability specialist Matt Brown to share with the members of The Copywriter Underground exactly what you need to do to make sure that doesn't happen to you… or your clients. It's happening this month… June 2024. And if you want the latest insights on how to make sure your work hits the inbox, you need to be in this masterclass. We've shared some information about it along with all of the other benefits you get as a Copywriter Underground member at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. Let me just add that if you know this stuff that Matt will be sharing, you'll be a much more valuable resource for your clients than a copywriter who just writes up some emails and hands over a google doc full of copy. In fact, if you add the skills Matt will be teaching to your services, you'll be more likely to land good, high-paying email clients on long retainers than if you just write emails. Join us at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And with that, let's go to our interview with Lauren. Kira Hug: Lauren, how did you get started as a copywriter? Lauren Esmay: So first, thanks for having me. My way into copywriting is much like many other people I've talked to. There was no linear path. I have several degrees in psychology and I went to med school for a bit. I did a lot of different things that I'm just like, I know I want to help people and this is how I'm going to show up.

Over the past few years the ways we work have changed. And the work we do has changed too. In the 397th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and regenerative business designer Helen Tremethick about navigating the changes and creating a business that works for you. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: For a lot of freelancers who write content and copy, work has changed pretty dramatically over the past year. Some of us, especially those who are just starting out have been impacted by tools like Claude and ChatGPT. While others may be struggling a bit thanks to layoffs in niches like tech and SaaS. As opportunities change, smart business owners change along with them. And relationships become even more important than ever. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter and regenerative business designer Helen Tremethick. Helen has worked with several business owners as they've transformed the work they do. Sometime changing up their deliverables. Other times switching niches or the focus of their work entirely. As we spoke, we kept coming back to one idea… relationships. They're more important than ever, and that's one thing that probably won't change in the near future. Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in June in The Copywriter Underground. If you listened to last week's episode, you learned a bit about the technical things you need to do to ensure the emails you write get to the inbox and not the spam folder and then get opened. But it can be hard to see exactly what to do as you listen to a podcast… it's audio only, so seeing where to find the tools and settings to adjust, well, you just can't. So we asked email deliverability specialist Matt Brown to demonstrate exactly how to set up your ESP and google postmaster tools so your emails have a better chance of getting where you want them to go. This is a skill set that clients need desperately. And when you can bring them along with your writing skills, you have what it takes to land high paying email retainers that can last for months or even years. But to get this training, you must be a member of The Copywriter Underground. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu.  And with that, let's go to our interview with Helen.   Transcript is underway...

Someone's got to be the best. And at least a few people believe that Daniel Throssell is Australia's best copywriter—even if only because Daniel told them he was : ). In the 394th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob brought Daniel into the studio to talk about his email strategy, world building, and how he turned a children's book into Australia's best selling book. And Daniel got real when it comes to what a day in his life really looks like. This is the second time, Daniel has been on the podcast (the first episode is here). Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript of today's appearance on the show. Stuff to check out: Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks Tough Titties by Laura Belgray A great book (Dark Matter) by Blake Crouch Master and Commander by Aubrey Maturin Stop Reading the News by Rolf Dobelli The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Daniel's Website Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you're going to say you're the best at something, eventually you're going to have to back it up. The late Gary Halbert once sent out a newsletter titled “why I am the best copywriter alive”. Of course, any one can make a claim like that. But eventually you have to back it up… and at least when it comes to Gary, he had the clients, the sales, and the results to make a pretty strong claim on the title. Which brings me to the guy that many people call Australia's best copywriter. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Daniel Throssell, who has been called Australia's best copywriter by many in the marketing world. But does he have the chops to back it up? Indeed he does. We covered a lot of ground in this interview—we went really deep on his approach to email, which in many ways he treats as if he's writing a novel. He also shared a few of the details about his strategy for pushing several books to #1 on the best seller list, a strategy by the way that works for all kinds of products, not just books. And Daniel got real when he talked about what a typical day looks like for him. We think you're going to like this one. But before we get to the interview… you've heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you've been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she's built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you've got to jump into The Underground now. We also have a second bonus… it's the strategic plan that today's guest Daniel Throssell used to make his client's book a best seller in Australia. You're going to hear a little bit about it in this episode, but Daniel only scratches the surface here. Because the only other time he's shared his strategy was with his paying subscribers and he wants to make sure to honor them by not sharing it elsewhere. However, he has made one exception. He's sharing it for a limited time with the paying subscribers of The Copywriter Underground for just a few days in the month of May. If you want to learn more about the strategy he teases on this episode, jump into the underground today so we can share the details of how to get your hands on the whole thing with you. There's never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let's go to our interview with Daniel. Kira Hug: All right. Welcome, Daniel. I want to kick off with a question about the l...

What is the difference between showing up as a copywriter and showing up as a strategist? In the 393rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Eman Ismail about how she changed her title and the work she does to reflect a new and more satisfying role of "email strategist". Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  When we coach the copywriters inside the copywriter think tank or in our group coaching groups—which by the way are open now and if you're interested you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/coach—sorry didn't really mean to take that tangent… but when we coach copywriters one idea that comes up a lot is the need to not just show up as a writer… an order taker… or as a vendor, but rather you need to be a problem solver. And often that means taking on the role of a strategist in addition to the work you do as a writer. But how do you do that? It's one thing to say, I'm a strategist and quite another to actually do the work that strategy requires. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed email strategist—not copywriter—Eman Ismail. Eman share why she rejects the title of copywriter today and what it really means to show up as a strategist. This might not be the kind of thing a beginner can do, but if you've got some experience creating copy and serving your clients, you may be picking up the expertise you need to show up as a strategist for your clients. Be sure to stick around to hear how Eman does it.   Now before we get to the interview… you've heard me talk about The Copywriter Underground and what it includes. If you've been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she's built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you've got to jump into The Underground now. We also have a second bonus… it's the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client's book a best seller in Australia. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to subscribers who paid to recieve his newsletter. It's not currently available anywhere. Even new subscribers to his newsletter don't have access. But he offered to give this strategy—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May—and only for members of The Underground.  If you were to purchase these bonuses sepearately, you'd pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. Plus you get all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with your membership in The Underground. There's never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let's go to our interview with Eman. Kira Hug: Let's start with recent moves you've made to level up in your business. Because when you were here last, we talked about your origin story in your business and how you were leveling up at the time. And what I love about you and just watching you and, and, um, hearing from you is you're like constantly leveling up in big ways. And so why don't you just describe maybe the most recent changes that have helped you get to that next level? Eman Ismail: You know,

When it comes down to it, the thing most copywriters want to build is a business that is high-margin (it makes money) and fun to run (it's enjoyable). But achieving that goal is harder it appears. So we invited Ian Stanley to join us for the 392nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We asked Ian about how he did it—created a business that is profitable and fun. We also asked him about sales coaching, breaking up his partnership, his approach to email and his new comedy special. To hear what Ian had to share, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: How do you create a high-margin company that is fun to run? That's pretty much the goal we all share… earn enough money for the lifestyle we want—however you define that—that's the high margin part. And enjoy life doing whatever it is you do, from work to whatever you do in your personal time—that's the fun to run part. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter, entrepreneur and comedian Ian Stanley. This is actually Ian's second appearance on the podcast, so we caught up on how his business has changed in the past couple of years. And as we talked about that, we asked Ian about sales training, breaking up a partnership, commedy and buidling a company that makes money and is fun to run. One caution about this episode, Ian likes to swear. We've cut most of that out of the interview in order not to offend the censors at Apple who like to put an explicit label on anything rated higher than PG. But if we missed any, we apologize. That's just who Ian is and how he shows up.   One other thing before we get to the interview… you've heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you've been thinking about joining this amazing community, let me give you two reasons to jump in now. During the month of May we have two incredible bonuses for members. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank, and will be sharing this usually-paid masterclass with members of the underground… but only for one week in May. And we have a second bonus… it's the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client's book a best seller in Australia. It works for non-book products too. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to paid subscribers to his newsletter. It's not currently available anywhere. But he offered to give it—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May in The Underground. If you've been thinking of joining, these are two very good reasons to jump in now—if you were to purchase either one of these bonuses sepearately, you'd pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. And I haven't even mentioned all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with these two bonuses. Visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now. And with that, let's go to our interview with Ian. Kira Hug: All right, Ian, let's jump in, not with your story, because we know part of your story from our last interview, but let's just start with changes, at least one change you've made over the last four years. Maybe we talked to you four years ago, Rob, do you know? We'll say four years ago. Ian Stanley: Something like that. Kira Hug: Over four years ago. Rob Marsh: I mean, it was definitely, it was what? Episode 208. So it's closing in on four years anyways. Kira Hug: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So what is one big change you've made to your business since we last chatted?...

We've talked a lot about building your authority and finding clients on LinkedIn on this podcast. But I don't think we've ever spoken with anyone who built a six-figure copywriting business entirely on that platform—without a website or any other social media presence. On the 391st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we spoke with Alefiya Khoraki who did exactly that. And if you're looking for clients on LinkedIn, you're definitely going to want to listen to this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: Sell Like Crazy by Sabri Suby The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: After recording almost 400 episodes of this podcast—the official number 400 will be released in about 9 weeks and that doesn't include several unnumbered bonus episodes we've recorded—but with that many interviews under out belts, it gets pretty easy to identify trends and shifts in the copywriting world based on what copywriters tell us about how they find clients, the services they offer and the struggles they go through. And one of the trends we've heard about over and overa again in the past year or more is how effective LinkedIn is for finding clients. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter Alefiya Khoraki. She's built a six figure business in less than a year, primarily by posting content on Linkedin and commenting on other content there. That's pretty good for someone who got her start trying to raise $800 for a project while she was in school.  But before we get to that, if you've been wondering how to use AI in your copywriting or content writing business, I've got something for you. A couple months ago i shared the way I use AI tools like Claude and ChatGPT to write bullets, headlines and subheads with the participants of a copywriting summit. It's a simple google document with the exact prompt I use to write hundreds of great headlines and bullets in seconds. Plus instructions on how to go back and forth with the AI model you're using to get even better results. You can even add a short ten-ish minute video training where I show you how i use it. If you're new to writing with A.I., this is a great way to get started. And if you've been using A.I. for awhile, this training may open your eyes to what's possible with a megaprompt. The document is free. And you can get it at thecopywriterclub.com/aiwriter. And with that, let's go to our interview with Alefiya. Kira Hug: Let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Alefiya Khoraki: So it started in a very weird way. You probably hear this a lot from copywriters. Back in COVID, I started my bakery business because I was still in university and for the final year, we had a very special ceremony for which I needed to raise 800 USD. And I was like, OK, let's try something. So every day I was trying new things. Let's try selling cottage cheese one day. Let's try selling this. Let's try selling that. And then I ended up starting my own bakery because I was working. I was studying in the morning, so I had time for myself in the evenings. And then I started running Facebook ads for that. And I was like, oh wow, I really enjoy this part.  I didn't even know what copywriting is. I didn't even know what A-B testing is. Because for my bakery business, that was the first time I downloaded the Instagram app. So I was very far off from the whole online marketing world. And then a lady was introduced to our community and she hosted a workshop. And there, she introduced me to Boss Babe. Boss Babe is Natalie Ellis and Danielle Canty. And they were doing a summit with Tony Robbins, Young Guys EOC, and all that. And then at that time, to learn all these marketing skills for my bakery business.

Want clients to find you instead of always having to pitch and find them? Then you need to be where they are. And in most cases, that means somewhere online—Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, LinkedIn or in your own newsletter. In the 390th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with former dentist turned copywriter Kieran Drew about how he took two years to grow an online presence that earns him six figures a year today. This one is worth listening to twice. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Blockbuster Principle by Michael Simmons (article) The Almanack of Naval Ravakan Poor Charlie's Almanack by Charlie Munger The Status Game by Will Storr Mastery by Robert Greene Perennial Seller by Ryan Holiday The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground HypeFury (posting tool) Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Last week I started off the podcast by talking about the idea of slow and steady growth. This week is a little different. It's about overnight success. Or rather, what might look like overnight success, but really is a two year effort to build and iterate something that works. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and social media expert and not-so-funny stand up comic Kieran Drew. Kieran is one of those over night success stories. When I first came across him online, he was in the middle of a six-figure launch that surprised even him. And in the year since then, he's done it twice more. But the back story is less instant recognition and more grind and fail, then grind and fail again until something works.  But before we get to what Kieran shared about launches, growing a newsletter and social media presence and why he gave up a promising career and guaranteed income for something a lot riskier like copywriting, I want to mention again our free report called how to find clients. I recently took a week to rework and revise one of our most popular client finding  resources… this report. it's completely updated for 2024 and now includes more than 21 different ideas for finding clients… many of them could help you attract a client in the next 24 hours. Wither we've used these ourselves, or we know other successful copywriters who have landed good, high-paying clienets with them. I've said it before…This isn't a one page pdf that will get lost in your downloads folder. In fact, if you're just going to download it to get to it later, don't bother. It's too valuable to not get used. But if you're ready to take action and go after a new client, this report includes the 4 mistakes you can't afford to make when looking for clients—if you make them, clients will not work with you. It also includes more than 21 ways to find clients, templates for reaching out to clients, and finally the five things you need to do to improve your odds of landing a client. Get your copy now at  thecopywriterclub.com/findaclient. And with that, let's go to our interview with Kieran. Kira Hug: All right, let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Yeah, sure. Kieran Drew: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on because I have devoured your podcast. When I first heard of writing and copywriting, I must have listened to like 80 of your episodes because it was a very exciting and scary world, copywriting. Rob Marsh: So you only have 320 to go, it sounds like. Kieran Drew:  I know.I had to start doing the work at one point. It's been a massive help. I got into copywriting while I was a dentist, up until a couple of years ago and when COVID hit. I never really enjoyed my job as a dentist. The pay was pretty good, but unfortunately, I was working six days a week and I sort of lacked that creative fulfillment. And when COVID hit, obviously we couldn't see patients from home.

You've heard the saying: slow and steady wins the race. Well, that's exactly the approach our guest for the 389th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast built her business. Today we're talking with copywriter Kim Kiel about getting better month and month, and year after year—and not getting caught up in the hustle. And we covered a lot more. You'll want to tune in for this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: I love stories about copywriters and other freelancers who find amazing success right out of the gate. They're working with great, high-paying clients on big assignments almost from day one. Those stories illustrate what's possible to those of us who are just beginning the journey. But, those are the exceptions that prove the rule. Very few copywriters hit a home run on their first at bat, or even their second or third. For them, slow and steady wins the race. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and brand voice expert Kim Kiel. Kim's business growth is the perfect example of the slow and steady copywriter business—getting a bit better every year by charging a bit more, upleveling clients as she gained experience and not getting caught up in the rush to hustle. We talked to Kim about that as well as her unicorn client, her take on the nine word email and why she always follows up every pitch. But before we get to that, if you've been listening to this podcast for long, you've no doubt noticed a recurring theme… how do copywriters and content writers find clients TODAY. Shortly after we launched The Copywriter Club, we created a special report with a bunch of ideas for finding clients and shared it with the world. I recently took a week to rework and revise that report… it now includes more than 21 different ideas for finding clients… some of which you can use today and possibly attract a client in the next 24 hours. Some of the other ideas will take longer to bring in clients. But they all work. We've either used them ourselves, or know other successful copywriters who have used each one of these ideas. And we want to give you this report for free. This isn't a one page pdf that will get lost in your downloads folder. It's comprehensive… 36 idea filled pages… including the 4 mistakes you can't afford to make when looking for clients—if you make them, clients will not work with you. It also includes more than 21 ways to find clients, several templates for reaching out to clients, and finally the five things you need to do to improve your odds of landing a client. If you want a copy of this report, visit thecopywriterclub.com/findaclient — find a client is all one word. And with that, let's go to our interview with Kim. Kira Hug: All right, Kim, let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Kim Kiel: Well, uh, I got us to tell you, I'm having kind of like a full circle moment because it was about five or six years ago that I was in my kitchen, you know, but bubbling around doing whatever I had to do and listening to The Copywriter Club Podcast and hearing Joel Kletcke, Tarzan Kay, early Justin Blackman talking about this field of copywriting and how they had some really good successes. And it was right around that time that I was needing to find another way to work because I had a day job. In the nonprofit sector, I worked in charity for a couple of decades as a fundraiser, fundraising copywriter, front line communications. And that sort of daily commute and the schedule with the kids, school schedules wasn't working anymore. And so I needed to make a shift. And so I discovered the Copywriter Club at the same time as I kind of discovered this whole online world of business.

What does it take to become a copywriter? How do you learn the skills you need? What are the best ways to "get in the game' so to speak? In the 388th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter Eddie Shleyner about the process of becoming a copywriter—and how he made the jump from literature student to booked-out-copywriter and author of a book about copy. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Adweek Copywriting Handbook by Joe Sugarman 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Eddie's website Full Transcript: Most weeks on the podcast we take some time to dive into a different copywriter's origin story. Why they became a copywriter. How they made the switch from whatever they were before to what they do now. It's a process we all go through, and yet, we tend to skip over a lot of the details. We jump from one client to the next, or from this service to that product. We cover a lot of what and don't go very deep into the how. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and soon to be book author, Eddie Shleyner. Eddie shared the details of how he learned to write copy, the feedback he got along the way, and the books he found most helpful. And that's just the beginning. We also talked about sabaticals, burnout and book writing. This is a good one, stay tuned.  But before we get to that, if you've been listening to this podcast for long, you've no doubt noticed a recurring theme… how do copywriters and content writers find clients TODAY. We recently updated our guide to finding clients… it now includes more than 21 different ideas for finding clients… things you can do today to attract a client—maybe even in the next 24 hours. Some of the other ideas will take a bit longer to bring in clients. But they all work. We've either used them ourselves, or know other successful copywriters who have used each one of these ideas. And we want to give you this report for free.  But don't just download this document and let it die on your hard drive. If that's your approach, don't bother. This isn't a one page pdf that's easy to ignore. It's a comprehensive… 36 page mini book… that includes the 4 mistakes you can't afford to make when looking for clients—if you make them, clients will run away from you—the exact opposite of what you want. I already mentioned it includes more than 21 ways to find clients, as well as several templates or scripts you can use to reach out to clients, and finally it reveals the five things you need to do to improve your odds of landing a client. If you want a copy of this report, visit thecopywriterclub.com/findaclient — find a client is all one word and we'll send you a copy for free. And with that, let's go to our interview with Eddie. Kira Hug: All right, Eddie, we want to start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Eddie Shleyner: Oh, well, I guess it was a pretty organic thing for me because I majored in English. I was an English major. I studied literature at U of I, and that's what I wanted to do, I think. I wanted to graduate and write novels and short story anthologies, and obviously that's It's really hard to do right out of college, so I had to get a day job. I got a job in sales, and I was selling software. I was selling computers. It was basically inside sales, but it was trying work for me. I didn't really enjoy it. I think I really wanted to write, and so after about a year in that role, my buddy came home. My roommate came home and he said that his work was looking for a copywriter. And I didn't know what a copywriter was. Actually, I had to look it up. I knew somebody was out there writing these ads, but I didn't know they were called copywriters.

Most copywriters and content writers don't give much thought to the client experience beyond getting the information you need to start a project and handing off the copy at as you wrap up. But that's a mistake. The client experience you create can be a huge differentiator for you and your business. Our guest for the 387th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jason Friedman. And what he shared about creating a unique experience for your clients is a total game changer—especially if you want to work with high-end clients. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: Jason's Offer for Copywriters The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: When is the last time you thought about your client's experience—that is, the experience of working with you from their perspective? What does it feel like to work with you? What are they excited about? Where do they get lost? What do they get and how does that feel? Most copywriters don't give it a lot of thought to this beyond working out how to get the information you need to start the work and maybe what you deliver to your clients when you're done writing. Although, if you just deliver a google doc, you probably haven't thought about that at all. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed customer experience consultant Jason Friedman. We talked in depth about what it takes to make the customer experience special. And how it is one of the few things you can do to truly differentiate your business from the other two million copywriters out there in the world. I know this is a big promise, but this episode has several ideas that will practically guarantee clients work with you again and again.  But before we get to that, if you've been listening to this podcast for long, you've no doubt noticed a recurring theme… how do copywriters and content writers find clients TODAY. Shortly after we launched The Copywriter Club, we created a special report with a bunch of ideas for finding clients and shared it with the world. I recently took a week to rework and revise that report… it now includes more than 21 different ideas for finding clients… some of which you can use today and possibly attract a client in the next 24 hours. Some of the other ideas will take longer to bring in clients. But they all work. We've either used them ourselves, or know other successful copywriters who have used each one of these ideas. And we want to give you this report for free. This isn't a one page pdf that will get lost in your downloads folder. It's comprehensive… 36 idea filled pages… including the 4 mistakes you can't afford to make when looking for clients—if you make them, clients will not work with you. It also includes more than 21 ways to find clients, several templates for reaching out to clients, and finally the five things you need to do to improve your odds of landing a client. If you want a copy of this report, visit thecopywriterclub.com/findaclient. And with that, let's go to our interview with Jason. Kira Hug: All right, Jason, let's kick off with your story. Let's start with your time working with bands and touring with bands. Let's start there and then move towards today, because I really want to talk about your time working in the music industry. Jason Friedman: Absolutely. Well, yeah, so, you know, my background, I was a theater nerd, right? Like, so I went to school for theater. I started doing theater when I was like eight, nine years old at summer camp. And it was just, it was always backstage. So lighting, set design, things like that. And I remember I had just got the bug, like I wanted to be a rock and roll roadie for Rush specifically. And it was like, I remember I got introduced to them by a friend of mine and I was like that nerd.

Is marketing unethical? What about tactics like scarcity or significance? Should copywriters be using these persuasive elements in their copy? If not, why not? And when is it acceptable? Our guests for the 385th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast are Maggie Patterson and Michelle Mazur, hosts of their own podcast called Duped where they talk about the misuse of persuasion in marketing. Between the four of us, we figured out the answers to these questions and more (almost). Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff to check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Duped Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: At some point in your writing career, most copywriters bump up against a persuasion tactic that just feels off. Or worse, they're asked to do something they don't feel good about. Maybe it's as simple as adding a deadline timer to an offer with no real deadline. Or it might be something worse… like selling programs to people who can't afford them, or who will never get the promised results. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I had a chance to speak with the dynamic duo behind the Duped Podcast, Maggie Patterson and Michelle Mazur. We talked about those dubious marketing tactics, when it's okay to use them, and when you need to be the adult in the room who says, this is going to far. If you've ever wondered where the line is when it comes to marketing ethics, this episode will give you something to think about. But first, I want to tell you abou The Copywriter Underground. You've heard about the library of training that will help you build a profitable business. You've heard about the monthly coaching, and the almost weekly copy critiques and the helpful group of members ready with support and even the occasional lead. Last week we recorded an exclusive training for Underground members on the diagnostic scorecard that helps you close just about any prospect or project on a sales call. It's the kind of business secret you don't read about in free facebook groups or even on most email lists. But right now, you can watch that training and get the diagnostic scorecard to help you close more projects when you go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu and join as a member.  But hurry, that training disappears in a few days. Now, let's hear what Michelle and Maggie had to say… Kira Hug: All right, welcome, Michelle, Maggie. So good to have both of you here. Let's kick off with the catalyst. What was the catalyst for Duped and that partnership between the two of you? Michelle Mazur: Well, I believe it started with me. Maggie and I vox a lot about things we're seeing and chatting about it. I sent her a Voxer message and said, hey, I think we should do a limited series podcast episode where we dive into some of these topics. And that was the catalyst. We were already creating the content in our Voxer conversations. And we're like, well, what if we just open that up to a wider audience? And we intended just to do, I think, eight episodes and maybe a second season. And then we realized, oh, wow, we have a lot to talk about here. Rob Marsh: So for anybody who's not already heard duped or aware of duped or even met you, Maggie and Michelle, tell us a little bit about, let's just lay that groundwork. What is Duped and why should people be listening to it? Maggie Patterson: So Duped is a consumer advocacy podcast that is really designed to help consumers in the online business space make more critical, nuanced decisions. Because what we tend to see is a lot of stories of, I bought XYZ, or I signed up with this coach, and I had a really negative experience. And from my perspective as a business owner, there's two ways we can approach this. We can try to get every business owner to reform their practices, which we're never all going to agree.

Success in business isn't easy. But finding success requires you to do things you may not love—like creating relationships with potential customers daily, working on your business (not your client's) every day, or even going all in on a daily writing habit. In the 383rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob spoke with copyhackers Joanna Wiebe who says these (and several other daily activities) are her non-negotiables. They happen every day—no matter what. If creating your own daily non-negotiable is all you get out of this episode, it will be well worth your time, but there is so much more. So check it out... Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Stuff you should check out: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: It's been more than seven years since we last chatted with today's guest on the podcast. In the meantime, she just keeps growing her business. This time around we asked her about the ins and outs of working with family members, building authority, and doing what she calls the daily non-negotiables. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and founder of CopyHackers Joanna Wiebe. Many of you know that Kira and I met in one of Jo's programs. So we owe a lot to her. But just as importantly, Joanna is one of those online personalities who is just plain generous with her help and advice. And that's likely a big part of why she's been so successful. As usual, we think you're going to want to stick around for this one. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. I've told you about the benefits you get as a member. We've been working hard on how to make The Underground even more useful and helpful to the copywriters and content writers who are members… if you listened to last week's episode with Csaba Borzasi, you heard him mention the scorecard he uses to close 100% of his prospects on sales calls. We didn't have a lot of time to discuss what the scorecard includes or how he uses it, but Csaba agreed to share all of that with the members of The Copywriter Underground. That presentation happens later this week and will be available in the Underground for a limited time. If you'd like to learn how to close 100% of your prospects on sales calls—by the way, that's not a guarantee, but you will see how Csaba does it—you need to be IN the copywriter underground, which you can do by visiting thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. And Csaba's presentation isn't the only upcoming exclusive we'll be adding in the underground. We'll have more to tell you about in the coming weeks.  thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. Now to our interview with Jo…         Thanks to Joanna for joining us to chat about her business. Chances are you already follow her, but if not look for her on social media, she is copyhackers everywhere you go and visit copyhackers.com to learn more about the programs she offer. That's the end of this episode of The Copywriter Club podcast The intro music was composed by copywriter and songwriter Addison Rice. The outro was composed by copywriter and songwriter David Muntner. If you've enjoyed what you've heard, please visit Apple Podcasts to leave your review of the show.

A lot of copywriters talk about building a "real" business, that is a business that isn't solely built on writing copy for clients. In the 382nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter Joel Klettke who used his writing and sales expertise, developed as a copywriter, to build a team and service business bigger than what he might have built on his own. And he shared what he's learned from the experience. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Over the past 7 years of publishing this podcast, it's pretty rare that we bring guests back for a second visit. And the guests that have been back three times? I could be wrong but by my count, that's only happened twice. Today's episode makes it three.  Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and founder of Case Study Buddy, Joel Klettke to catch up on what he's been doing for the past couple of years. Joel has gone from being a top performing, in-demand copywriter to the founder of a million dollar business. And in our discussion, he shared some of the lessons he learned along the way. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the membership for copywriters and content writers… where you can find the training, coaching, copy reviews, and community you need to build a successful copywriting business. To learn more visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And now let's jump into our interview with Joel... Kira Hug: All right, so Joel, I'm not going to ask you how you ended up as a copywriter because we already covered that in episode, Rob, which episode? I know you know. Rob Marsh: Episode 21 is the first time and maybe like 107, I think, is the second time. It's been a while though. It's been a while since we chatted on the podcast. Joel Klettke: Yeah. I like these, it's almost like a snapshot in time, like journal entry to go back and listen to myself on somebody's life. Rob Marsh: How much better life was back in episode 107? Kira Hug: Well, going back to 21, I think that was the one I was listening to and reading the transcript from. That's when you were, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's when you were just starting case study, buddy, right? That was the origin of it when you were getting into case studies. Or was that 107? Rob Marsh: I think it was even before that. Kira Hug: Yeah, it was before that. We were introducing it. You had that business running at that time. Joel Klettke: Yeah, like technically Case Study Buddy is almost eight years old. It was off the side of our desks initially. And then right before the pandemic, we kind of pivoted to focus full-time on that. So that became kind of a big transition point. And then it's continued to be the full-time focus since then. So we've only really been two years, maybe three now, full-time pushing this thing. Kira Hug: Okay, well, let's go back then to before pandemic when you went all in and just curious, like what, what triggered that decision for you and your business partner to go all in on this business? Joel Klettke: I think there are a whole bunch of different factors. I think, you know, at the time, the grass is always greener in life in general, you know, like you always want to be doing that new thing. The headspace I was in at that moment was I had done the freelance thing and I'd done it well, graduated to basically being in a position of consulting for some pretty great brands, some really great projects. You get to the point that you are now making what your heroes made.  I remember listening to Joanna Wiebe talk about charging $10,000 for a landing page and thinking,

Want to make your copy better? More persuasive? More conversion-oriented? The way to do it may be understanding the psychology of your reader. In the 381st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter Csaba Borzasi who explained how he uses psychology to make his copy better. And maybe more importantly, Csaba also explained how he uses a scorecard during his prospecting calls that helps him close almost 100% of his prospects. This is definitely one you'll want to stick around for. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: When many of us start out as copywriters, we're interested in the words. How do we organize them so that they sound right or so that they sound better? Which words should we use to communicate this benefit or this feature? Or which phrase will make the best call to action? But after a while, we tend to become less interested in the exact words, although they are still important, and we still do get a lot of joy out of writing them. And we become more interested in the psychology behind the words. We start asking questions like, which emotions should my reader be feeling as they read this? What beliefs do I need to shift? What do they need to know or think or feel in order to take the next step?  Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club, and on Today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed Csaba Borzasi, a copywriter with extensive training in applied psychology and plenty of experience helping shift beliefs and with writing emotional copy. Csaba shared how psychology applies to what we write every day. He also shared his process for diagnosing his client's business problems that virtually guarantees that they're going to ask for his help on a project. And by the way, this single bit of advice that he gives, this insight could be worth thousands of dollars in new work for you in the coming year. So you're definitely going to want to make a note of it.  Finally, we talked about why his welcome sequence is nine months long. There's some good stuff in this episode, so get out your notepad and your pen because you are going to want to take some notes.  Now, this is when I normally jump in to tell you all about The Copywriter Underground, all the copywriting business trainings that are in there, the monthly coaching calls, the weekly copy critiques, the community. If you've been listening to the podcast for very long, you've heard me mention all of those things over and over, and yet you still haven't jumped in. Don't wait any longer. If you've got plans to grow your business in 2024, visit thecopyrighterclub.com/TCU and find out more about this vibrant community of copywriters who are working hard to do the same thing that you want to do. And now let's go to our interview with Csaba. Kira Hug: All right. So Csaba, let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Csaba Borzasi: Yeah, so great to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Well, I was basically born and raised in in the Transylvania region of Romania. So but I'm not a vampire, I promise. But as an ethnic Hungarian, actually. So it was a totally different culture compared to what you might consider conducive to becoming a copywriter, especially in English, especially on the U.S. market. Right. So basically, I like I always liked to read. I was always a little kind of like a black sheep in my family because they don't even speak English, unfortunately. And they were always telling me, like, why are you learning English? Like, where are you going to use English? And I was like, no, no, no. But I can get better information this way. So I always loved getting information.  And then during my studies, I studied psychology, first business, then psychology.

Brainstorming and creativity are often forgotten in the world of online marketing. We often jump straight into what will convert at the expense of the creative tools used by copywriters working in Ad Agencies around the world. In the 379th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with freelance advertising copywriter Shlomo Genchin about his processes for coming up with creative concepts that attract attention and engage readers and passers-by. Shlomo shared some great tips for finding better, bigger ideas for the work we do. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Have you noticed that the work most copywriters do doesn't exactly fall under the description of creative? Yeah, we write about ideas, hopefully big ideas, but the work of most copywriters is pretty common. It's like all of the other copy in their industry. So here's a test, choose a niche, doesn't matter which one, go to Google, find 10 companies in that niche and open up their websites. Then read the headlines. You can actually do this for the niche that you work in. Every time I do this, I'm amazed that about eight out of the 10 make pretty much the same promise in their headlines.  Now, usually it's something like save time, save money. They word it a little bit differently, but it's basically the same. And then the other two headlines are usually so bland that they're not really making any promise at all. They might be trying to describe what they do, but usually that even falls flat. And it's not just websites. With a few exceptions, ads look and feel the same. Even most content blurs into a vast mass of content schlock.  Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I interviewed creative copywriter Shlomo Genshin. Shlomo writes a lot about his creative process, how he comes up with ideas, and how to think more expansively when developing things like headlines, hooks, and more. It's really the answer to this everybody looks the same problem. It's something that copywriters and content writers around the world definitely need to be doing more of. So we think you're going to like this episode.  But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That's the membership for copywriters and content writers that includes not just training, literally more than a hundred hours of training on different topics, but actual feedback on your copy, as well as monthly coaching calls from mentors you can trust, where you can get the help that you need to grow your business. I'm not going to share all of the details here. You can find out more at thecopyrighterclub.com/tcu. That's TCU for The Copywriter Underground, where you can join and immediately expand your network of amazing copywriters who are all working to grow and build something bigger together this year. Okay, let's go to our interview with Shlomo. Shlomo Genchin: So I started just like a lot of people, I just started looking for ways to maybe to get rich online. You know, how to start a business, how to make money online. And I came across all those regular scammers that you would see. They would tell you, get rich in 10 days. And I bought one of those courses. And nothing came out of it, of course, because it was kind of scammy and not really possible to apply… to kind of implement all of that.  But one thing I learned there was copywriting. Like the magic of copywriting, you can basically persuade any person to buy anything. And it's so easy. You just need some words. And it's so simple. And I was like, that sounds interesting. I could sell anything in the world, do affiliate marketing, and whatnot. And then I just went to Google and looked up the best co...

Kira and Rob provide an in-depth analysis of the AI landscape for creative entrepreneurs in 2024. Fresh off a transformative 2023, they discuss key developments that shaped the industry last year and emerging specialties you might want to consider. Whether just getting started with AI or looking to maximize its potential, this forward-focused episode delivers strategic insights to help you capitalize on AI in the year ahead. To learn more about how you can use AI in your creative business, visit: ⁠https://thecopywriterclub.com/ai4c

How do you get stuff done? What can you do to make sure your goals for the new year don't fall by the wayside. In the 378th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about their strategies for accomplishing goals and resolutions and what they plan on getting done in the coming year. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. We mentioned a lot of books on this show: The Opposable Mind by Roger Martin The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller Who Do We Choose to Be by Meg Wheatley Breaking Together by Gem Bendell This One Wild and Precious Life by Sarah Wilson Quiet by Susan Cain Bittersweet by Susan Cain 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven Covey The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: We're a couple of weeks into the new year, and if you're like the average resolution setter, tomorrow is the day you quit. 17 days is the average length of time that goal setters, resolution setters, whoever, stick to their goals. And maybe you've already quit, given up on what you expected to get done this month or this year, or maybe you're still going strong. Either way, on today's episode of the Copywriter Club podcast, Kira and I are talking about what we do to make sure we get stuff done. and some of the goal setting fallacies that might keep you from accomplishing everything that you set out to do. Stick around to hear what we shared.  But before we get into all of that, this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast is brought to you by the Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters, content writers, and other marketers out there. given the value that you get for the very low price that you pay. There's a monthly group coaching call where Kira and I help you get answers to your business questions, your copywriting questions, whatever. We do a weekly copy critique where we take a look at what you've written and give you advice and insights and things that you might want to do a little bit differently. There are regular training sessions on copy techniques, business practices, everything designed to help you get better. And we even talk about AI and tools and things that you can do in order to stay on top of everything you're doing with AI. And that's on top of the massive library of training and templates that are there. The community is amazing. Lots of copywriters ready to help you with answers to any questions you have, even sometimes sharing leads. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/TCU.  All right, Kira, we're here just you and me again. and just chatting. It's the new year. I think I've got some goals of things I want to do. You've got some goals of things that you want to do in the coming year. You must have some. I know you're very goal oriented, but before we do all, before we talk about the new year, before we talk about, you know, what things we're thinking and maybe share some ideas that might help people get more done. If they're thinking about their goals, if they actually made resolutions, if they have a word of the year, any of that stuff. Let's just do a couple of warm-up questions. I want to find out a couple more things about you. Even though we've been working together for six or seven years, it's hard to believe there are still things I don't know. Kira Hug: Yeah, I know. I know. I guess we can always dive deeper in our relationship. Rob Marsh: Here we go. So first question, when's the last time you were really, really scared? Kira Hug: I mean, how scared are we talking? Rob Marsh: That's a good question because as I was thinking about this, the only time I am really terrified is in my dreams. I'm not sure that there's anything that terrifies me. that much in real life. But from my answer, I was thinking, okay, if I take away dreams,

Copywriter and Publisher of Freelancer magazine, Sophie Cross, is the guest for the 374th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob asked Sophie why she decided to publish a print magazine in a time when many printed magazines seem to be struggling to find readers and advertisers. She shared what it takes to accomplish such a Herculean task each quarter. One of our big take aways from this discussion is that you may need to do something BIG to stand out in today's competitive world. Publishing a magazine is that kind of big idea that stands out. And this episode may give you a few ideas that you can use to stand out in your own niche or industry. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Important links to check out: Freelancer Magazine The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Want to build your authority? Then you need to be sharing your ideas, insights and content in places where your audience will find you. Linkedin. Instagram. Medium. Twitter. That's good advice and it has helped hundreds of copywriters rise above the crowd and get noticed by the clients they serve. But if you really want to stand out… the way to do it is by showing up in ways that no one else has thought of before. Instead of posting on someone else's platform, why not create your own? Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and magazine publisher Sophie Cross. Sophie is the publisher of Freelancer magazine, a printed quarterly magazine about the ins and outs of working on your own. As you'll hear her explain, Sophie wanted to create a platform to help her get noticed. So she started her magazine and we wanted to understand what it takes to publish and mail a 100-page magazine 4 times a year. Turns out it's a lot of work. We also talked about freelancing in the hospitality industry, creating courses and other assets, and Sophie's advice for anyone working as a freelancer today. Stick around because this one is pretty good. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we're adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That's on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let's go to our interview with Sophie. Kira Hug: All right, Sophie, let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as the editor of Freelancer magazine? Sophie Cross: I ended up with the editor because I made the magazine and made myself the editor. Rob Marsh: That is a very good way to start. Yeah. Sophie Cross: I I was already making a magazine, had a little bit of experience in my backgrounds in hospitality marketing before. Yeah. Well, when I went freelance and went freelance, I had the experience making hotel brochures and collateral and things like that. You can only look back at the stepping stones, can't you can't sort of see where they're taking you. I sort of didn't think much of it at the time, but actually now realizing that I had this real passion for printed collateral and things l...

We're talking all about online business myths and what to do when you're struggling in your business on the 373rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This episode is a Kira and Rob only show—no guest. And they delve into the realities of running a business today. The path is seldom up and to the right (always growing) and often so challenging, you're tempted to get a "real" job or at least something part-time until client work gets steadier. We cover a lot of ground in this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Almost no one expects to launch a business and have everything go easily from the beginning, but after a few years, well by then, things should be getting easier, right? Well, not always, and not exactly.  I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of the Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of the Copywriter Club podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I talk about a couple of business myths. Like the idea that your progress should always be up and to the right. That is that things always get easier and more profitable year after year. Or the idea that replacing clients with products and passive income is easy. or the all-too-common belief that taking a job in-house is a failure. I also talked a little bit about how to prepare for a business downturn. If you struggle to find clients or your business hasn't been growing as quickly as you hoped, you may want to stay around and listen to the end of this episode.  But first, this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast is brought to you by the Copywriter Underground. You've heard me talk about this for the past few weeks. It truly is the best membership for copywriters, content writers, marketers of all kinds. And let me just give you an idea of what you get for what you pay every single month. First, there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice about overcoming any business or client or writing challenge that you have. When we do one-on-one coaching, we charge several hundred dollars an hour for that. it's included in your membership.  There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques. Sometimes that's from Kira and myself. Sometimes that's an expert that we bring in to talk about something they're doing interesting in their business. All of those are designed to help you get better at this thing that we do. We've been talking about new AI tools and ways to use AI in the underground. even new tools, techniques, prompts that you can use to have AI help you get more done quicker. And on top of that, there's this massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters who are ready to help you with almost anything, including sharing leads from time to time. What an amazing value that is. To find out more of what it includes, go to thecopyrighterclub.com/tcu.  And with that, let's get to our discussion for a few suggestions about how to prepare for the inevitable downturns and hard times in your business.  All right, Kira, just you and me again today. And we're going to talk about a couple of things. But before we jump into talking about recessions and making our businesses stronger and all of that stuff, I put together a couple of getting to know you questions that are maybe a little bit different. Let's start easy. Mountain or beach vacation? Kira Hug:  I feel like we've covered that one on the pod already. And I feel like last time you asked me, I was like, I don't, I don't know. I can't choose between mountain or beach. Because the question stresses me out. So I remember it, but I mean, I would probably lean towards beach if I had to choose. I just, I like both. It's hard for me to choose.  Rob Marsh:  Why does it stress you out? 

Financial Copywriter Sean MacIntyre is our guest for the 372nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We had the opportunity to hang out with Sean at the Copy Legends Lockdown Event and were intrigued by what he had to say about A.I., positioning yourself as an expert authority, and how to get better at copywriting. There's some great advice here that Sean shares from his mentors as well as direction on how to read a sales page so you learn from it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Small Group Coaching The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  You've heard the good and bad about the future of copywriting and content writing. AI is going to take all of our jobs. Or conversely, it's the greatest opportunity ever to come along… at least for the copywriters ready to take advantage of the new technology. And then there's the economy, which for many has felt like a recession—in spite of some positive broader economic markers… regardless the ups and downs of the business cycle means there's a recession coming sometime in the future… whether that's next year or five years from now. So how are you planning for this stuff? What are you doing to add new skills? And should you get a part time job to hold you over while you figure this all out? Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed financial copywriter Sean MacIntyre. We covered a lot of ground in this episode… we talked about AI and why it may not be the risk some people say it is AND what's really happening as these technologies develop. We talked about how to protect yourself from a recession and the themes your copy should address to connect with readers in stressful economic times. We also talked about having ideas, how to read a promotion so you learn from it and become a better copywriter, and a lot more. You'll definitely want to stick around for this episode. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we're adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That's on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let's go to our interview with Sean. Kira Hug:   All right, Sean, let's kick off with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Sean MacIntyre:  Oh, well, I've been writing for money since about 2001. Thanks, mom. And so yeah, I did that to sort of fund my lifestyle at the time. Spent a few years homeless. And so I was actually going to school and writing and working a few jobs on the side there. Did that got one master's degree, then got another master's degree, ended up teaching for about seven years in there somewhere. Then around 2015 while I was actually, helping ghost writing books for business professors, I got a job at a little place called Palm Beach Research Group, which is now called Legacy Research Group in the Agora and MarketWise family of companies. And I got hired as a proofreader. And within three months,

Femtech Copywriter Lanae Carmichael is our guest for the 371st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and Kira and Rob asked her about finding her niche and framework (which Kira got a little too much pleasure from making Rob name), user testing copy before you present it to the client, and how she landed 50% of the work she did this year from other copywriters. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. A few links related to this show that you should definitely click: Lanae's Website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  What's your best source of leads? Where do the majority of your clients come from? As you look back on the past year, it's a question worth thinking about. Do clients easily find you based on your social media presence or your LinkedIn profile? Do you seek out the people and brands you want to work with and pitch them on a project? Or maybe you benefit from referrals from past clients and other people who know you. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter Lanae Carmichael. Near the end of our interview Lanae said something that surprised us. She said that more than half of her clients this year came from other copywriters. This isn't a new idea. We've talked about it before on the podcast. But 50% is a big number. Lanae shared what she did to put herself in position to get those referrals and it's something any copywriter can do. And we talked about a lot more than that. You'll want to keep listening to this episode. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we're adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That's on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let's go to our interview with Lanae. Kira Hug:  Let's kick off, Lanae, with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter?  Lanae Carmichael:  All right, so I started out as a marketing consultant at a small TV tech firm, or a marketing specialist. I don't remember what my title was there. But I was very junior on the team, and I was primarily doing their internal communications. But slowly over time, I started working with the COO, and we were doing executive video scripts, and I was doing some change management communications as the small TV tech firm got bought out by a new company. After three or four years of working with that marketing team, I got pivoted into the product marketing side, and that's where I discovered branding and positioning and messaging, and I loved it.  Shortly after that, I had my first baby, and I knew I didn't really want the corporate lifestyle. I had friends that were in the copywriting industry. I didn't really know what the word meant, but I was already doing it. as is the story that so many copywriters have. But I was living in the Bay Area at the time, and there were startups abundant all around. And so I was on Angel's list, and I just started pitching. And pretty quickly, within two weeks,

Copywriter Justin Goff is the guest for the 370th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. He typically works 3-4 hours a day on his business, so Kira and Rob asked about that and what he does to ensure work doesn't creep into the rest of his day. Actually we talked about a lot more than that. To hear what Justin shared, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh: Most of us have a dream of reaching that level in our business where we call all the shots. We've got a little bit of money saved, so we're not dependent on the feast and famine cycle. And we've created a business where we only work 3-4 hours a day… when we want. As I said, for most copywriters and content creators, this is still a dream. But there are more than a handful of copywriters who have achieved this. It is do-able. And given the rewards, it's a goal worth pursuing. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed copywriter and entrepreneur Justin Goff. Justin is one of those copywriters who has reached that place in his business where he calls the shots. So we brought him on the show to talk about that… what he does while he's working, what he does while he's not working, and how he keeps it all going. If you share the dream of working a few hours a day and really taking control of your time, you'll want to stick around for this interview. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we're adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That's on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let's go to our interview with Justin. Kira Hug:  Justin, in one of your emails, I think it was from June, maybe it was from June, you kicked off the email and you said that recently there was a thread in a certain Facebook group with people saying that you had quit copywriting or retired or that you had sold all your possessions and moved to Peru. And in this particular email, you wanted to clear the air. And so it was a really fun email where you talked a little bit about what you're doing today in business and life. So maybe that's a good place to start. Did you move to Peru or what are you doing now?  Rob Marsh:  Retirement looks good on you, Justin.  Justin Goff:  Yeah, that was funny. So I actually sent a Peru email on April Fool's Day that I was going to move to Peru and be a shaman. So apparently some people did not catch the April Fool's joke on that.  Kira Hug:  They didn't know what day it was.  Justin Goff:  Yeah, even though it was very clearly April Fool's. But yeah, so for the people listening that don't know me, I used to run a copy coaching program called Copy Accelerator with Stefan Georgi. Uh, I ran that from 2019 to 2022. And then last summer, uh, Stefan and I parted ways. I sold my share of the company to him. Um, and I was kinda just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Um, luckily I I've, I've been through this before where I'd sold a company. Cause I previously sold a company in 2017,

This is 369th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And today Kira and Rob talk in depth about writing sales pages. They share their formulas for writing, how they landed their first sales page assignments, and the best ways to improve your skills when it comes to writing sales pages. You definitely don't want to miss this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.     Full Transcript: As content writers and copywriters gain experience and work on different types of projects, many of them express interest in doing less content work like blog posts and more sales copy work. There are a lot of reasons for this. One big reason is that sales pages are closely tied to the sale of the product or service you are writing about, so it's easier to justify charging higher prices for the work you do. The sales page leads directly to the sale, where a blog post or case study may be a couple of steps away. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug and I are talking about sales pages. How we approach them. The research we do. The formulas we use to write them. And our secrets for making sure they work as promised. If you write sales copy or want to write sales pages in the future, you may want to stick around for this one. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we're adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That's on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let's go to our discussion for some of what we've learned over the past few weeks. Kira Hug:  Well I think it's exciting that we are talking together twice in a row back to back. We've never done that on this podcast. Usually it's like 1 podcast for the 2 of us and then maybe ten later we get back on together. Rob Marsh:  Yeah, it's definitely been a while, if it has happened at all. I'd have to go back through… I mean it's probably because you and I talk to each other a lot, but we don't record those and share those as podcasts. So. Kira Hug:  This is the first. It's never happened.  Rob Marsh:  Maybe we're opening up the doors a little bit to some of our personal conversations here, I don't know, but hopefully people will enjoy what we have to share today. Kira Hug:  Well, it's also snowing here in Maine. It's the first snow of the season. Okay it slowed down. It stopped, but it was snowing all morning. It's absolutely beautiful and it put me in such a good mood, like you just can't bring me down right now. Rob Marsh:  Do you have a blanket and hot chocolate anything by the fire? Kira Hug:  I've been I've been making stew and just drinking hot water. And I'm so ready for the holidays I just drink hot water…  Rob Marsh:  Wait… You're drinking hot water, like not tea? Kira Hug:  I just drink hot water. So I stopped drinking caffeine since London when I got sick because I felt awful anyway. So anytime I get sick, I'm like, “Well I may as well cut out some of my vices because I already feel awful.” So I'm not drinking caffeine.

The 368th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is all about what we learned from participating in the Copy Legends Lock-in Event, The Top One Mastermind, TCC IRL in London and our own Think Tank Retreat in London. There's something in this episode for everyone, from copywriting tips to ideas for better supporting your clients and interacting with members of your team to be more effective. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   Full Transcript: You've heard us talk about the impact that masterminds and events can have on your business. It's why we talk about The Copywriter Think Tank so often. It's why we organize retreats and IRL events just about every year. And we don't just say that because we produce our own events. From the beginning of The Copywriter Club, Kira and I have both belonged to several masterminds from people like Brian Kurtz, Jeresia Hawk, and Todd Brown. And we've attended events around the country to add to our own business and copywriting skills. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, who I just mentioned, talked about the four events we attended over the past two weeks—Copy Legends Lock-in, The Top One Mastermind Retreat, The Copywriter Club In Real Life in London, and our own Think Tank retreat in London. We're sharing our biggest takeaways and what we learned from these awesome experiences. You'll want to stick around and listen to this episode. But first, this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. It is truly the best membership for copywriters and content writers… let me just give you an idea of what you get for $87 a month… first there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice for overcoming any business or client or writing challenge you have. There are weekly copy critiques where we give you feedback on your copy or content. There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques and business practices designed to help you get better. And we're adding a new monthly AI tool review where we share a new AI tool or a technique or prompt you can do with AI get more done. That's on top of the massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters ready to help you with just about anything… including sharing leads from time to time. Find out more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu And with that, let's go to our discussion for some of what we've learned over the past few weeks. Okay, Kira we are. It's just you and me today. But we've been up to a lot of stuff. Lots been going on the last few weeks so let's let's kick it off you know where do you where do you want to start with all the stuff that's been going on. Kira Hug: Ah I think we should just start with our health… I mean I'm seeing you on the screen and you have a heat pad on your shoulder and you're in pain and I think we should talk about this. We have been traveling a lot and I don't know how we physically do it. Travel isn't necessarily is what triggered your pain, but I think it definitely triggered my cold. I'm a little worn out. I know you're a little worn out. What's going on with your arm and shoulder right now? Rob Marsh:  Yeah, well we were in London for an IRL event and a Think Tank Retreat but I went a few days early just to do a little bit of traveling around England with my wife and some friends that we have there. I woke up Sunday morning in massive pain. It was the most pain I've ever felt. I could barely move… it was hard to dress myself. It was it was awful and I didn't really know what was going on. I felt a little bit better the next day. Although it hurt all week long I didn't want to go to the emergency room, simply because we were on vacation. We had our friends there then we had the retreat and everything was going on ...

On the 355th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob take the mic to talk about the 5 critical moves copywriters need to make to build, grow, and scale a successful copywriting business. If this year has got you questioning your business, this episode is for you. Here's what you'll learn: How to “flip the switch” in your business.  What successful copywriters know that struggling copywriters don't.  Why you need to build an operating system to support your goals.  How to define your X-factor… The very thing that makes you stand out.  The steps to create your ideal client and discover the problems they want to be solved. How to find the right pricing model for your business.  Why having a signature service will make you more revenue. The importance of processes and systems and how to begin to build them.  Why systems are the solution to imposter complex.  How to improve your sales skills without feeling sleazy.  The 4 mistakes copywriters are making in growing their business.  How to actually find higher-paying clients who recognize your value. Why you need to implement these 4 levers to make your business run more efficiently.  How to radically change your business in just 5 months.  Tune into the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:    

Brenna McGowan is our guest on the 354th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Brenna is a social media manager turned email copywriter and launch strategist who helps her clients implement prelaunch methods that generate greater awareness and sales. If you want to create natural momemtum before your launch, you'll want to listen to Brenna's behind-the-curtain insights. Here's what you'll find: Why Brenna transitioned from social media marketing to email marketing. How she repositioned her business in a new industry and grew an online presence.  The process she created for validating her offer and expertise.  Why she niched into prelaunch and how it can benefit the overall launch of a product or service. What's so important about your “why?” What are you supposed to do after you pivot your business? Being good at things vs being passionate about them.  How Brenna uses the LEAP process to help entrepreneurs find their sweet spot to achieve their goals.  What's working with prelaunch now? Why you're really feeling overwhelmed by prelaunch and how to stop it.  How to build your email list before you launch.  Her inspiration behind creating a different style event aka The Voxer Summit. A behind-the-scenes look at her client launch based on her CASE method.  How she packages her offers and positions herself as a strategist.  What if you only have 3 hours before your next launch? The easier way to create natural momentum for your business. Tune into the episode to learn all of this and more. The people and stuff we mentioned on the  show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website Brenna's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you've dreamed of building a copywriting business that earns five figures a month, there are certain types of projects that make reaching that goal a lot easier. And at the top of that list of projects is product launches, that is, helping clients sell a course or a membership or another kind of product, with a combination of strategy emails, landing pages, ads and sales pages. A single launch project can pay a good copywriter a lot of money. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh. Kira Hug:  And I'm Kira Hug. And we're the founders and hosts of the Copywriter Club podcast. Our guest for today's episode is copywriter and launch strategist Brenna McGowan. In just the past couple of years, Brenna has become a leader in the launch world, helping clients sell more and teaching copywriters and other marketers how to put together more successful launches. Rob Marsh:  But there's a lot more to a successful launch than a bunch of emails and sales pages. Brenna shared with us how she thinks about the days or weeks immediately before a launch and what you should be doing to prime your audience so that they're ready to buy when you launch. She also shared her thoughts about pivoting your business, validating offers and ethical marketing practices. We think you're going to like what you had to share. Kira Hug:  But first, and speaking of priming your audience so they're ready to buy when you launch a product, which is what we are trying to do, this is part of our pre-launch strategy, hopefully we nail it, the Copywriter Accelerator is coming up soon. The doors will be open soon. This is our signature business-building program for copywriters and content writers where we help you put together the most critical eight components of your business, the eight parts that you need in order to build a profitable business. And we've had success story after success story with some of the most internet-famous copywriters that you may have heard of, and it's coming up soon.

On the 353rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Lindsay Hyatt joins the show to talk about how to make strategic pivots in your business and step into the spotlight with confidence. Lindsay is a copywriter and empowerment coach who helps her clients build a stand-out personal brand. Before she built her business, she worked in radio ads and healthcare marketing, and she was a 5th-grade teacher before jumping ship to start her own blog, so she knows a thing or two about making big pivots. Listen in to find out: How do you know when it's time to pivot in your business… or life? The steps Lindsay took to meet her salary within a couple of months.  How to create a writing habit and build your portfolio.  The benefits of setting aside your pride and putting yourself out there.  What's the key to building a personal brand? Her Instagram philosophy for growth and building an audience.  What to do when it's hard to show up on social media.  General content pillars vs rigid content calendar – which one is for you? How to stand out on LinkedIn.  Why she chose to niche horizontally vs vertically. The reality of creating a new arm in your business.  How to grow your visibility with intention and mindset.  Want to gain clarity and perspective? Follow this step. Why she started a podcast and how it's shifting her business.  What happens when we challenge our beliefs? The benefits of creating an alter ego and stepping into the spotlight.  How Rob's email was the tough love she (and we) all needed to hear.  Hit that play button or check out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the  show: The Accelerator waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website Lindsay's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  There's a saying that gets thrown around occasionally in the business world that goes something like this: We overestimate what we can get done in a day and we underestimate what we can accomplish in a year, which is probably why we often feel like we don't get much done as we work through our days. But when we look back to where we were last year or the year before, we are amazed at some of the changes that we've seen and experienced. Hi, this is Rob Marsh. Kira Hug:  And I'm Kira Hug. Rob Marsh:  And we are the founders and hosts of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Our guest for today's episode is copywriter and copy coach Lindsay Hyatt. Over the past two years, Lindsay has experienced some big changes in her business. As we chatted with her, she shared a few of the things that she's done that made all of the difference: activities like showing up regularly on social media, creating personal connections with their network, and exploring new opportunities for serving her clients. They're small things, but they produce really big results. In short, she puts in the reps, so stick around to hear what she has to share about her business. Kira Hug: But first, this episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator, which is our signature business building program that we are running in the fall for four months in the fall. And Lindsay actually is an alumni member of that program, so she'll speak to a little bit of that program and the benefits, and you can hear from this conversation how it's helped her in her business. If you have any interest in learning more about that program and the eight-part framework we work through in that program that will help build the foundation of your business, you can learn more at our wait list page, which is at thecopywriterclub.com/accelerator-waitlist. We'll link to it in the show notes so you can jump over there and get your name on the list ...

Dive into the takeaways we each took from a recent mastermind retreat. We're getting specific about the type of time-saving tools copywriters can build, and discussing The Copywriter Club's next steps with AI. To learn more about how you can use AI in your creative business, visit: https://thecopywriterclub.com/ai4c

350 episodes and over 1.5 million downloads later, Rob and Kira sit down to chat about... pitching (and phones?). From setting intentions for a new season to setting your business up for success in Q3, you'll walk away from this episode with ideas and actionable steps you can use right now  in your business. Catch up with Rob and Kira to find out: The sure-fire way to gain clients in Q3.  How Kira's flip-phone project is going. Creating a theme for a new season.  What summer on this side of the globe means for Rob and Kira. What's new with TCC this summer? The do's and don't's of pitching and why copywriters need to focus on this instead.  Is your ego getting in the way of new clients? What business activities can help you come out of a slow season? How are copywriters getting paid right now? What's new on the AI for Creative Entrepreneurs podcast? The people and stuff we mentioned on the  show: The Copywriter Underground Annual Membership --> Get P7 for Free The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast Full Transcript:  

This week, we're talking about the impact of AI—and the recession—on the opportunities for creatives, including the solutions we'd recommend for anyone who wants to continue to land high paying clients. To learn more about how you can use AI in your creative business, visit: https://thecopywriterclub.com/ai4c And if you're looking for support pivoting your business, you can work with us directly in our brand new program: https://thecopywriterclub.com/serenity-now/

How do you connect more deeply with your audience when sending out emails? Rob Marsh and Kira Hug from The Copywriter Club tell us all about the persuasive copywriting techniques that professionals use in order to build and maintain strong relationships with their email readers. And you can start using these techniques too. Straight away! Ready to take notes? SOME EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (0:17) Join our FREE Facebook Group.(2:27) Did Kira really eat a hamster once? (4:31) The importance of using your real voice.(7:36) The persuasion technique called LIKING.(12:41) The persuasiong technique called SIGNIFICANCE. (15:43) When should you add persuasion techniques to your writing?(17:38) Do persuasive techniques only work in email marketing?(18:47) The persuasion technique of ANCHORING.(20:35) Building trust with your audience. (21:45) Subject line of the week with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug.The importance of using your real voiceRob and Kira help people become copywriters or improve their copywriting skills, and a huge part of that is teaching people how to connect with their audience. Because if you're not establishing a strong connection with your subscribers and are just throwing copy into the wild, people are going to ignore you!So the first thing we all need to do in order for people to feel the emotion coming through their screens when they read our emails is to create a brand voice that reflects the way we talk. That means not polishing yourself to sound like a super sleek marketer. Because who would trust that person? Instead, pull your own voice into the copy. And to do that, you want to almost imagine you're dictating an email to yourself. This also means not worrying too much about misspellings and grammatical mistakes. Because guess what? Most people won't notice. And those who will might reply back to point out an error, which is good for you because it creates engagement. And engagement with your emails tells Gmail and the other platforms that your emails are worth reading and responding to. In other words, you're increasing your credibility as an email sender! And that's why copywriters and marketers sometimes make mistakes on purpose in order to generate that engagement. At the end of the day, if you're delivering value, typos shouldn't matter that much. The persuasion technique called LIKINGRobert Cialdini, in his book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" talks about the technique of liking. You help people liking you through exposure and repeatedly showing up and sharing personal details. This helps people connect with you.For example, we (Rob and Kennedy) do this by sharing personal facts about ourselves at the start of each podcast episode. And people tend to remember those about us. Another example is that Rob Marsh had a lot of responses when he shared about his mother passing away. Of course, it doesn't have to be something as deep as personal as that - the time he shared about giving up Coke Zero worked just as well. Sharing personal details helps you create personal connections, which is vital because people buy from people they like and trust.Evoking nostalgia and using pop cultureWhen it comes to sharing personal details, think about putting boundaries in place that you're comfortable with so you don't suddenly feel completely vulnerable and exposed to the world. You might not be comfortable sharing something as deep and meaningful as...

On the 330th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down after two weeks of in-person retreats to share what they're most excited about in 2023. Between new conversations around writing a book, learning new languages, competing in an Ironman, and AI and ChatGPT, you'll want to tune into the few surprises Rob and Kira have up their sleeve. Tune into the podcast to find out: Who's going to learn Italian – Rob or Kira? Did Rob actually bike 200 miles in one day?! Is Kira going to be the new Ironman? The tentative releases of Rob and Kira's books. Is there a ghost in Kira's photo? The power of in-person retreats and masterminds. Will there be a new AI workshop for copywriters? Who should worry about AI? Where will the next Think Tank retreats take place? A Copywriter Club spin-off podcast is happening… what's it about? Find out the answers by tuning into the podcast below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: If you'd like to be the first to know about the AI workshop + limited series all about AI and ChatGPT, then click here to add yourself to the list! The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Welcome to the Copywriter Club podcast. We don't have an intro today, but we were just talking about the fact that maybe we haven't ever even said our names on the podcast other than occasionally talking to each other. So this is the Copywriter Club podcast with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug. Kira Hug:  Right. Rob Marsh:  What else should we say about ourselves? I don't know. Kira Hug:  Well, Rob, so we're at the beginning of February. What are you really excited about right now? Personally, professionally? Rob Marsh:  Personally, a couple of things are going on. So outside of work, I am taking an Italian class with my wife and my oldest daughter, and the class actually started a couple of weeks ago. I haven't been able to take the first two classes because you and I have been traveling out of town. We had our retreat; then we had our mastermind group that met together. And so today that we're recording is my first day that I get to go to this class. So I'm hoping that after missing the first two classes, I'm not hopelessly far behind in my attempts to learn Italian. So I'm looking forward to that. Kira Hug:  You got to prove it. You have to say something. Rob Marsh:  Well, I haven't been to class yet, so I don't have anything to say, but I will eventually. I think, maybe I even said this on the podcast once. I can't remember, but Italian to me, is the most beautiful language. It's musical. When I hear people speaking Italian, it sounds like they're singing in a lot of ways. My wife lived in Italy for close to a year at one point, and so we have some friends in Italy that we've connected with over the years, once or twice, and usually, it's my wife talking to them at dinner or sitting around their homes, and I'm sitting there quietly picking out a word or two that I might understand because I took high school Spanish and there are some similarities there. And you know what? It's just time for me to pick up another language, so in addition to the very little Spanish that I can understand and joke about speaking, maybe I'll learn Italian. And so yeah, that's going on in- Kira Hug:  That's so fun. Rob Marsh: ... In my life right now.  Yeah, it's a lot easier than training for a marathon and 112 mile bike race and a two-mile swim all at the same time. Kira Hug:  I don't think it is. I am slightly jealous because I do want to learn another language desperately, but I also realize I tend to take on too much. And so I was like, don't take on any other goals for now; just focus on what's in front of you....

On the 320th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down to debrief 2022. What worked? What didn't? And what's coming up in the month of December and into the new year? As you begin to reflect on the past year and plan for the next, you'll find advice and book recommendations to guide you into a successful 2023. Here's how the episode breaks down: Why you need to join the Strategic Growth Plan challenge TODAY. The difference between how Rob and Kira change their behavior. Trying out a different email style… Masterclasses and diary entries? Is Kira ready to move again? Early-bird for Accelerator is opening when?! CEO retreats – do you need them in your life? Why roles can change when your business grows. How stepping into a leadership role can help your business. Productivity and time management book recommendations for 2023. Check out the episode below or read the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Join The Accelerator Waitlist  Join the 5-Day Challenge  The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Okay, so welcome everyone to the Copywriter Club Podcast. This is our 10th episode since the last time that Kira and I were together and just chatting about what's going on in our lives and our business and the things that we've got coming up that we're excited about. And so as we like to do, we're jumping back in to give you another update on what's happening so that you know what to look forward to from the Copywriter Club. Kira Hug:  Yeah. And we thought it would be fun to reflect, as many of us are reflecting at this time of year on what has happened over this past year, good and bad so that we can be more intentional as we move into the new year. Rob Marsh:  Every time we talk about what we've done, Kira, I feel like your list is always so long because you always move, you have a new kid, you do all these amazing things and I'm like, "Huh, I wonder what I did this year." I got to come up with something while you're talking. Kira Hug:  I think you've done many things you just didn't have quite as much time to prep as I did. So I had lots of time to think about everything that happened this past year. So we're going to share again, just like some wins and struggles, personal, and professional from the two of us. And then we are going to talk about what's happening this week in the Copywriter Club, what's happening next month, this month. So we'll try to stay on track and stay focused. I think focus might be the theme for today's... I was going to say today's interview, today's conversation - Rob Marsh:  Episode. Yeah. And if you are used to the longer episodes and you were looking forward to that, we hate to disappoint you. And if you think that other episodes are too long, this one might be right up your alley because it will probably be a bit shorter. Kira Hug:  Yeah, because let's be transparent, it's Friday; it's my end of day. Not quite your end of day, but it's Friday. So we're going to keep this short and sweet. Rob Marsh:  Yes. So Kira, why don't you kick us off. Let's talk about some of the stuff, the wins that you've had. And since we're really talking about end-of-year reflection, we'll go into that a bit more later. Yeah. What's happened this year that's been exciting for you? Kira Hug:  All right. So I do have my lengthy list in front of me. I'm going to try to just highlight a couple. Like you said, I move frequently. So yeah, moving was a big win. Moving is hard. I hope to never move again, ever. So that was a big deal. And it's also rewarding because I really like where I live now and I don't want to leave Maine anytime soon. So I think that's a win. Rob Marsh:  Yeah,

Hi. My name is Melissa. If you're new here - hey!! I'm so glad you're here today. If you're not new, heeey! I'm grateful that I get the privilege of being in your ears and eyes. I say ears for those who listen and eyes for those who prefer to read the show notes on our website. Sometimes I prefer to skim show notes instead of listening to a podcast. I'm a fast reader and easily distracted; plus I wanna make sure the show is accessible to them in whatever ways they want to digest the info. Anyways - here we are, several weeks after I “should've” recorded and published this episode; but I just could not bring myself to do it. Not for any reason other than I didn't really know what to say beyond the cheesy “I can't believe it's been 200 episodes” sentiment. I wanted it to be extra special. Then I put a lot of pressure on myself (which I then resisted) and then I wonder if what I have to say is still relevant. I've recorded at least a dozen solo episodes and haven't felt this kind of anxiety about publishing an episode before. So I didn't force it; I gave myself lots of grace until it's like okay girl - time to move forward. Last night I watched The Redeem Team on Netflix with my youngest son; and I believe it was Dwyane Wade who said (I'm paraphrasing here) that you're not moving because you're afraid of success. As long as you move, it's good, so here I am, moving. I've got some very unrealistic, but fun goals for this podcast in the future; so first and foremost I want to say thank you to everyone for listening, sharing, connecting, and just giving me the privilege of helping you. And, this is very important, a thank you to Cora and Grace, who help me publish the show every week. If there's ever a week we don't publish; it's always on me and I'm so grateful for their support. I started out the show doing everything myself and realized quickly I couldn't keep doing it all on my own. The podcast origin story + future plans for the show  I launched the show in October 2018, so just over 4 years ago. My friend Kira Hug, who is the co-founder and co-host of The Copywriter Club podcast, interviewed me for the first episode and for episode 100. Kira was really the first one to tell me to host a podcast and didn't really listen to me when I gave her all the reasons why I shouldn't have one. I recorded the first episode and sat on it for 6 months; published 4 episodes; and then didn't really take it seriously until January 2019. At that time in my business I was running paid mentorship programs for designers and this one messaged me to tell me that she loved my show and listened to it at the gym; and it really motivated me to take it a little more seriously. At 200 episodes in, we've interviewed 150+ diverse experts and received over 120,000 downloads. We've been ranked a top podcast for entrepreneurship in Sweden, New Zealand, Japan, India, Great Britain, Germany, Colombia, Brazil and Australia, and a top podcast in business in Belgium, Czeck Republic, Egypt, Ireland, Pakistan, South Africa, South Africa, and United Arab Emirates, and a top podcast for all podcasts in both Cyprus and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. In 2019 we won “Best Podcast” at the Social Media Club Hashie Awards, and I almost didn't submit the podcast for the award. My friend Caroline Jones gave me the nudge, and I still can't believe I won. So apparently my questioning the podcast relevance is normal, but not necessary. A lot of podcasts get more downloads + rankings and awards, and some get less. I'm very content with where I'm at, and don't stress about that stuff. I really like how we tell the stories of the guests on the show - and the nitty gritty details that help me understand how they got to where they are; so I can see what's possible for me. In college I don't really feel like it was explained very well what opportunities were available to me, so that's one of the reasons I love this show. And, I get to talk about what I don't think is mentioned enough in this industry; how design, copy, marketing, strategy, UX, tech, systems and all the creative elements have to work together to create successful brand campaigns + product launches. It's becoming more and more clear to me that understanding those things is one of my super powers. As I learn to embody this super power, and my business shifts and evolves into doing more creative launch direction for B2C brands; I'm really excited to tell more stories behind-the-scenes of your favorite product launches + brand campaigns from designers, founders, creators and to understand like we did with the McDonald's rebrand in episode 116 with Tyler Brooks and the Jill Brand Launch with Meagan Carboney in episode 184. So, if you're someone who has a product launch or brand campaign behind-the-scenes story you want to share on the show; go to the “Be a Guest” in the footer of our website to submit your pitch. I'm much more interested in the nitty gritty details than your 3-step formula. And while you're on the website; you can sign up for email updates to be the first to know when episodes go live. I'm excited to incorporate the emails in our weekly production process so I can share a few personal insights about every episode as it goes live. The behind-the-scenes of my new podcast art If you're on the website or have visited it or you listen on any podcast platform; you may have noticed we're slowly making some much-needed design changes. When I launched the show, I kept the same podcast art with a photo of me in a blush suit jacket with my hair pinned back and very curly. As both the show and my personal brand have evolved; I knew it was time for new podcast art. It's one of those things I tried doing on my own after putting it off for months and months. And then I decided to hire a designer to help me. One thing I'm very clear about right now in this phase of my life is that I don't want to put my face all over the internet right now. Maybe in 2023. Not now, though. So, I knew for the new podcast art, I didn't want to use my photo. I really like the podcast episode graphic we use to share on social media and the logo; I just wanted new art. So, I hired Taylor Weaver, and she nailed the concept in the first try. Score! Thank you, Taylor! In the next phases of the rebrand; we'll be making some updates to the UX of the podcast website. Most likely in 2023. A thank you note to my younger self  On a little bit of a personal note; last month I was driving to one of my son's football games that was 3 hours away; and on the way I listened to Kendall Jenner's interview on Jay Shetty's On Purpose podcast. There was a video clip that went viral of Kendall talking about being kind to her inner child and that anytime you're mean to yourself, you're being mean to your younger self. So, she has a photo of herself as a little girl on her bathroom mirror “so that every morning, every night, every day when you walk into your bathroom and look and the mirror your looking at her and remembering that if there's anything negative that you're saying about yourself, or ever being mean to yourself, you're talking about her.” This really resonated with me, not because I'm doing any inner child work; but because I think it's important to be kind to yourself and to pay attention to the things you say about yourself. I hesitated to record + publish this solo episode and one reason was because I wondered if anything I had to was relevant without another guest on the show. I even question it when I have guests on the show. If you saw the title graphic for this episode on social media; and the graphic actually features an image of me from when I was a kid. I was probably 11 in the image and it was from a photoshoot my sister and I had done as kids to promote our singing business. My mom made our costumes, my dad was our manager and we were living our parents dream. My mom had the calendar made in 1997; and kept it on her wall until at least 2005 when she sold her house. Unfortunately for my parents, I killed their dream of my sister and I becoming pop stars because I didn't like all the practice that went along with it. Sorry mom & dad! Now I get to use my voice in a different way; by talking to the creators, designers, and founders behind your favorite product launches and brand campaigns to uncover why they do what they do in the way that they do it. Because to me, graphic design is not just what a website or logo looks like. It's about strategically using beauty and language to construct a path that connects your ideal customers to your products and services. A final thank you and an ask I can't believe that we're at episode 200. It's been four years since I launched this show. Four years and 200 episodes is wild to me. The fact that people listen to a show I created simply because I wanted to know what opportunities were available to me is wild. And the fact that people still engage; and want to be a guest on the show blows my mind. I'm just a regular chick from the midwest who became a mom super young whose kids are pretty self sufficient; and I'm excited to explore the new opportunities out there for me and spread the word even more. And I have a short ask: leave us a review. You can do it on any platform - we're on iTunes, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Stitcher and Spotify. I have one more ask: Send me a message and tell me if any episodes have inspired you and/or you have anyone you think I should interview. If you go to Melissaburkheimer.com there's a red button that says “Send Melissa a DM” and you can message me on Instagram, LinkedIn or you can email me. I'll be sharing more soon about what I've been working on in my business; it's not quite ready yet; or maybe I'm not ready yet (I published this episode - a big to-do off my list!). Remember to be nice to your younger self and be nice to my friend. Talk to you soon! Links mentioned: Episode 1 Episode 100 Episode 118 Episode 184 Be a Guest on the Show   Like what you heard? Click here to subscribe + leave a review on iTunes. Click here to download my Sales Page Trello Board Let's connect on Instagram!

I wanted to invite my friend, Kira Hug back to the podcast because Kira is someone I have observed intentionally work on getting to know herself and the shifts I've seen in her as a leader. Kira has always been thoughtful, caring of others and very deep - but as she gets to know how the world actually impacts her and how she wants to show up, I've seen her get more intentional about how she serves those in her circle. Kira has graciously come back to talk about her own personal journey with how working on changing her habits and patterns - and getting to know herself better has helped her step into herself in a more powerful way. If you're someone who does feel impacted by the world and is trying to figure out how you want to show up - this episode is for you.

On the 310th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira sit down and chat about what's new in the world of The Copywriter Club. Catch up and tune into what needs to be on your radar for the last quarter of the year. Here's what they talk about: The 2022-2023 Definitive Guide to Pricing for copywriters – and how you can apply it to your business. What's the difference in salary between content writers and copywriters? Do you need a degree to be a copywriter? (new blog alert!) Do copywriters really need a niche? How you can get better at prospecting and scale your income. The number one problem copywriters are facing. What do habits have to do with gaining clients consistently? Are you ready for the Think Tank? What podcasts are Rob and Kira listening to lately? A podcast to improve your storytelling game. Tune into the episode below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: P7 Workshop – get more clients How much do copywriters get paid? Do you need a degree to be a copywriter? Do copywriters need a niche? The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM   Full Transcript:    

Our guest for the 308th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Kristin Lajeunesse. Kristin is an author and former digital nomad who has traveled to all 50 states in the U.S. and 21 countries on a mission to find delicious vegan food along the way. Her travels led her to copywriting and over the last couple of years, she's built a thriving business. Here's how her story goes: Kristin's 3 lives and how they led her top copywriting. Starting a business on Fiverr before hiring a sales consultant. Landing large clients with employees vs solopreneur clients. What it's like to work with a sales consultant – how does it fit into the budget? Are you doing the same amount of work for less money? The best tool you can use on a sales call. How to turn your sales call into an organic conversation rather than an interrogation. How much do we really need to do to ensure a high-quality customer experience? The two best investments Kirstin's made in her business. How she manages her small team and hires subcontractors to support her business. How she pays her subcontractors. Her process for being the main point of contact and delegating to subcontractors. What it's like to write for businesses that may take a toll on your mental state – what should you consider? Balancing being a highly sensitive entrepreneur and setting boundaries. Why she chose the van life? The best destination for digital nomads. What it's like to write a book for a traditional publisher. Setting up a book tour and finding sponsors. Hit play or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website Kristin's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 81  Episode 137 Episode 305 The TCC Shop  Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Every copywriter knows how important sales are to your business. We get paid to help clients get sales, and we sell our own products and services. If we don't do that, we don't even really have a business. In fact, improving your sales skills is one of the best things that you can do to grow your business. And our guest today is copywriter, Kristin Lajeunesse whose business completely changed once she got serious about her sales process. In fact, she hired a sales consultant to sit in on her calls, to help with proposals and help her attract the right clients. And the result was a six-figure business in less than a year. And if that sounds like something that you might want to do with your business, you may want to stick around for this interview. Kira Hug:  Okay, I'm going to stick around because that sounds great. I'll stick around. Before we jump into the interview with Kristin, we just want to share something we're really excited about. At least I am. This week, you can jump into the Copywriter Underground, which is our membership for $17 a month. It would be $17 for your first month to just try it out. If you've wanted to jump in, but you weren't sure this is a really great opportunity to get in there and see what it's all about. But Rob, what do you like the most about the Copywriter Underground? Rob Marsh:  I like so many things about the Copywriter Underground, but I think my favorite thing that we do, or at least that I do is the weekly copy critique or the almost weekly because we do miss them every once in a while. I love having the opportunity to check out what members are writing, the things they're creating for their clients or even for their own businesses. It's just a lot of fun to jump in and give feedback on that. But it's just such a great community, a great place to ask questions, to hang out. There's a ton of training in there. There's just so much stuff in there that it's really hard to choose just one.

How copywriters can grow and thrive in this competitive and uncertain market, with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh.

Raven Douglas is our guest for the 302nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Raven is a Conversion Copywriter who focuses on the user experience for her clients' businesses. In this episode, we walk through Raven's beginning stages as a copywriter and the moves she made to go from $55 dollar projects to $37k. Here's how the conversation goes: How Raven became the go-to writer for her peers and how it paved the way for her copywriting career. Her cold pitch method and why she took on free work. Educating business owners on copy and how it helps their business. First website prices… You gotta start somewhere. Getting a feel for different niches and playing around with different writing styles. How a 28 hour bus ride to TCCIRL in NYC was the pivotal moment that turned Raven's dream into a reality. The sales script Raven uses to quote prices and close sales calls. How Raven negotiated a $37 project without diminishing her value. The guarantee Raven used in the beginning of her career and how it helped her close more clients and boost her confidence. The intake and vetting process Raven uses to find out the nitty gritty details of client results. Ethical selling – How Raven declines projects and shifts gears into consultation calls. How to set a consultation call and how to set expectations. Money mindset and pitching high-ticket services. Humanizing CEOs – Why we need to reframe our perception of CEOs. Living the digital nomad life – How's it possible as a copywriter? Tune into the episode or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: How to Find Clients Workshop The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website Raven's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  From time to time, on this podcast, we've interviewed copywriters who seem to have a golden touch. They connect with the right clients, they start out charging more than what beginners charge, their niche, their brand, their work, it all just seems to work out. And then there are copywriters who work really hard to make things come together. They take chances that may not pay off, they struggle with low-paying projects, knowing that it's just the first step on a long journey. Today's guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast has more in common with that second group of copywriters than she does with the first. Copywriter brand strategist and direct response expert Raven Douglas has put in the hours, made the sacrifices and grown a business that might make a lot of other copywriters drool in envy. We first met her five years ago in Manhattan. So, this excellent interview has been a long time in coming and we think you're not going to want to miss it. Kira Hug:  But before we get to our interview with Raven, we have an ask for you if you listen to the show regularly, or actually, if this is your first time listening and you enjoy this episode, we would love for you to leave a review for the show. If you do review the show, we will share your review in an upcoming episode. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. We like to share those reviews at the end of the show. Maybe you've stuck around long enough to hear a couple of them, but we'd love hearing what you think about the podcast and what our guests share. So, if you would just hop over to Apple Podcasts and click four or five stars, whatever you feel like it deserves, and then just leave a couple of words, your thoughts about your experience with the podcast, we would really appreciate it. Kira Hug:  Yeah. I like how you did not give them the option of giving us a three-star or below. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Well, I mean, if they want to give us a one or two-star review, we could read those, too, but- Kira Hug:  No, I don't want to read those. Rob Marsh:  Yeah.

300 podcast episodes later and Rob and Kira STILL have things to talk about… That's copywriters for you. On this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob sit down and answer questions from their listeners and reflect over the last 300 episodes while looking forward to the future of TCC. Here's how the episode goes: The act of mentally preparing for big changes – and getting back to your old self AFTER big changes. Running a business as a parent of young children and going through the motions. Is The Copywriting Club a thing? Rediscovering passions and adding more fun What does the future of TCC look like? The worst business advice Kira and Rob have received in growing their business. If they were to start it all over – What would they do differently? Mistakes Rob and Kira have made along the way and how they've learned from them. Rob and Kira's go-to podcasts – Do they have favorites? What was the tipping point for the podcast? The current books on Rob and Kira's bookshelves. A new offer all about they key to finding clients. Listen to the podcast or check out the transcription below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Looking for the workshop waitlist? Email us at help@thecopywriterclub.com and we'll shoot you an email. The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Kira's website Rob's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM     Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Okay. So this is episode 300 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. And usually, we would start out with maybe some interesting teases about what our guest is going to share, but today it's just you and me Kira, and rather than tease the amazing content of this episode. And I'm saying that slightly facetiously, I mean, maybe it will be amazing. We haven't recorded it yet, but we're just going to jump right into the podcast and into episode 300, this is a celebration for us. Kira Hug:  Yeah. It's a big celebration. I don't think it's fully hit me that 300 episodes is incredible. So we should really celebrate somehow. We're not great at celebrating. Rob Marsh:  No, this is definitely a weakness. And I would love to send every listener a 300 pin, or something like that. Kira Hug:  That'll be fun. Rob Marsh:  But if you've been here since the very beginning, we actually would love to have a comment or hear from you, just your thoughts on the show, how it's changed over time, the impact that it's had in your business, just, maybe we start that conversation in the Facebook group and just let people respond. It's gratifying to hear that people find something amusing from it or helpful from it. And maybe you also have some criticism or something, send that directly to me, not to Kira necessarily, but yeah, we, this is a big deal and most people don't get to a hundred podcast episodes. And so hitting 300 feels like a pretty big win for us and for the people who've been on our show. Kira Hug:  Yeah. And I think that it feels like it's also been a while since you and I chatted on the show. Right? It feels like it's been forever. Rob Marsh:  Well, I mean, we've been trying to, we try to do it every 10 episodes or so, but I feel like we might have missed it last week. Kira Hug:  We missed one. Yes. So, I mean, let's just do a quick check-in because you and I haven't chatted on the podcast recently. I'm just curious, Rob, how is your summer going so far? It's mid-July, how are things for you? Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Summer actually has been enjoyable. We had a friend come over from England, so we've done some traveling, a lot of like, driving through the national parks here in Utah, which are amazing. It's surprisingly green in some of the desert areas, which is interesting because we're supposed to be in the middle of a drought, but yeah,

Ed Gandia joins The Copywriter Club Podcast for its 295th episode. Ed is a business building coach and strategist for business writers and copywriters. He helps his client by teaching them to build habits, strategies, and techniques that help them earn more in less time. In this episode, he debunks the “sales” status quo and gives valuable insight on how copywriters can become better salespeople. Here's how the conversation went down: Ed's background in software sales and how it was the catalyst for his copywriting career. How Ed went from 6-figures in software sales to a 6-figure copywriting business in 27 months. The play-by-play on how Ed acquired clients with no formal copywriting training. Why he niched down and how that helped him nail his messaging. The 4 questions to decide which niche is right for you. How to tap into your current network when it feels “awkward.” What if you're a copywriter with no sales experience… How do you close leads? The reality of sales that will change your selling game. How to lead a discovery call from start to finish with the 30/70 rule. The 5 phases you need to start implementing in your discovery calls. Should you have an expiration date on a proposal? The biggest mistakes copywriters are making when approaching potential clients. Intentions vs habits – What's the real difference? Using the James Clear approach to habit building, so you can optimize your time. How to add CEO time into your business and how Ed puts it into action in his business. The Freedom Triad – How it will help you make more in less time. Why Ed became a coach and his most common struggles running a high level business. If you want to improve your sales skills, this is the episode you want to listen to. Hit play or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Accelerator Waitlist The Copywriter Think Tank Copywriting Income Survey Kira's website Rob's website Ed's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 81 Episode 204 Episode 283 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Today there are a bunch of podcasts about copyrighting, but when we started this show more than five years ago, that was not the case. Can you believe it's been five years by the way Kira? Seems like a long time. Kira Hug:  It seems like 25 years. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. At least. At least. Time flies when you're having fun. Back then, there were only a couple of people who recorded podcasts specifically to help copywriters get better at this thing that we all do and one of those people was copywriter and coach, Ed Gandia. Ed's been sharing what he's learned from being a copywriter for longer than we have. And like us, he's nearing almost 300 episodes of his show. Sometimes interviewing other successful writers and other times teaching important business skills. And today we thought we would invite him onto The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk about his business, how he got started as a copywriter, and what he does as a coach, and also to share his best advice for copywriters ready to build bigger, better businesses. Stick around because we think you're going to want to hear what he had to say. Kira Hug:  But first, this episode of the podcast is not sponsored by The Think Tank. Rob Marsh:  What? Kira Hug:  It's actually sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. A program designed to give you the blueprint, structure, coaching, challenges, and community you need to accelerate your business growth in four months so you can go from feeling like an overwhelmed freelancer to a fully booked business owner. If you have any interest in this program, you can jump on the waitlist to be the first to hear details about the program when it opens in August. We'll link to the wait list page in the show notes. Rob Marsh:  Yeah,

On the 293rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Marcella Allison comes back on the show. When she first joined the show, she was in the midst of building The Mentoress Collective, and now after 7 years, it's time for her to pack it up and leave behind a legacy. In this episode, she talks about her decision to move on and the chance you have to get your hands on what she's built for a steal. Here's how the conversation breaks down: What was The Mentoress Collective all about? The difficult decision that entrepreneurs are faced with when growing their brands and businesses. What's changed in the marketing space since the beginning of The Mentoress Collective? Step by step tips to find a mentor – The do's and don'ts. Is it possible to have too many mentors? The real difference between a copy chief and a business mentor – Which do YOU need? How the most successful copywriters use these two things to create high-converting copy, and how you can use them too. The attitude you need to take on when editing your copy. The three types of entrepreneurs – Which one are you? How are we supposed to balance learning, success, failure, and accomplishment all at the same time? Are you ready for an agency? The difficulties that come with being a solopreneur and entrepreneur – Are they the same? How to embody someone that would demand the rates you want to ask for. Practical advice on supporting yourself during an extreme transition or pivot in your business and life. Why it's important to allow a time period of business grief and choosing possibility. How you can change the vehicle in which you give rather than give up what you love. Be sure to tune into this episode all about change and rediscovering passions. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Copywriting Income Survey Kira's website Rob's website Marcella - Bundle 1 Copy breakdowns Marcella's Legacy of Success - Bundle 2  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Episode 48 with Marcella    Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  We talk about success a lot on the podcast. We've interviewed lots of copywriters who have built thriving, six-figure businesses. We've even talked to a few people who have made more than seven and eight figures in their business. They've shared the habits and processes, and even the luck that they've had along the way, but we don't talk a lot about failure or quitting. So today's podcast is a little different. Our guest for this episode is our friend A-list copywriter, Marcella Allison. In addition to writing dozens of successful promotions in the financial industry over the past few years, Marcella has spent much of the last seven years building a community to help mentor and support women in marketing. Originally, it was called Titanides, and now it's called the Mentoress Collective, but recently Marcella made the decision to close the doors on that venture, and this episode focuses on that decision. We also talked about mentoring, pay gaps, and what comes next. There's a lot to learn from Marcella's story and her decision, and we hope that you'll stay to the end when Marcella makes an offer that we think is almost too good to be true. Kira Hug:  But it is true. It's too good to be true, but it is true. And this is actually the last day before the price increases for the Think Tank, our mastermind. If you listen to the podcast, you've heard us talk a lot about the mastermind over the last few months. If you have any interest in it, today would be the best day to reach out to our team and find out if it's a good fit for your business so that you can jump in there before our retreat, before our virtual retreat on June 9th and 10th, and before the price increases. You can find out more at the copywriterthinktank.com Rob Marsh:  And just a note about this episode,

Lander Sulser is our guest for the 291st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Lander is a marketing strategist and launch copywriter who helps her clients optimize their offer using her signature framework. Whether you're trying to help your own clients with their offers or you're creating your own, be sure to tune into the episode. Check out the conversation: Not knowing how the hell you get to your dreams, but you know you have them. The benefits of using mastermind to leverage your skills and business. How you could get the “in” with big names in the industry by knowing one person. The other benefits and value you can provide as a copywriter other than just the writing component. The process of creating the name for your offer. How to create an irresistible offer in 4 simple steps. What has changed in creating offers since the pandemic? How to hone in on your BIG promise, so your message isn't diluted. The guarantee – How should we approach it? What we shouldn't be doing when launching our products. How to create exclusivity around your VIP offer. The better way to craft your USP to stand out from the crowd. Creating purpose for every copy element you're providing for your client. DFY vs DWY copy services – what's best for YOUR business? Boundaries you should be setting as a consultant or mentor. You aren't (always) the ideal client… create the separation. The secret to the end of research and learning during copy projects. Being nicer to ourselves – How do we rewrite the stories we're telling? Implementing systems and processes will do w h a t for your business?! Why white space in your calendar will create a better business. How to build authority as a highly-sensitive person. This is a not-to-miss episode. Be sure to press play or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Copywriting Income Survey Kira's website Rob's website Lander's workshop  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Sign up for Typeform Episode 205 Episode 266   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  You've probably heard the marketing equation 40/40/20. More than one of our guests on past episodes has mentioned it. 40/40/20 represents which parts of promotion are responsible for the sales. 40% comes from your list or your audience, making sure that you're talking to the right people. Another 40% comes from the quality and value of your offer. And the final 20% comes from your copy, the message that you use to sell the offer to the right audience. And if you're talking to the right people with a great offer, you'll almost certainly succeed, even if the copy isn't that great. Conversely, if your offer is bad, even the best copy won't do much to salvage the promotion. All of that is a long way to introduce our guests for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Copywriter and marketing strategist and Think Tank member Lander Sulser. Lander's specialty is helping her clients dial in an irresistible offer that customers can't say no to. It's a superpower that every copywriter needs to have. So you'll definitely want to stick around for this episode. Kira Hug:  Before diving into the interview with Lander, this sponsor for this week's episode is the copywriter Think Tank. Rob Marsh:  Surprise. Kira Hug:  Shockingly, it's the Copywriter Think Tank. It's a part mastermind and part coaching program, and it's designed to help copywriters dive deeper into their businesses and explore new ideas that maybe they didn't even think were possible. With our two new coaches, Linda Perry and Jonnie Stellar, you'll get personalized focus on systems and mindset. In addition to strategic coaching and support from the two of us. If you're looking to create a new offer or program, scale your income, launch a book, or maybe even a podcast, the Think Tank could be your next step to making i...