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In July 2024, then nineteen-year-old Nixon Azuaje-Pérez picked up spent bullet casings after a shooting outside his apartment in Aurora, Colorado. It was a decision that would thrust the Venezuelan migrant into the middle of Trump’s presidential campaign and eventually land him in a maximum-security prison in El Salvador. Local police suspected Nixon was part of a Venezuelan gang called Tren de Aragua. But was he a member? And how would anybody know? Latino USA is the longest-running news and culture radio program in the U.S., centering Latino stories and hosted by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Maria Hinojosa. Follow the show to get every episode. Want to support our independent journalism? Join Futuro+ for ad-free listening, early-access and exclusive bonus episodes with the chisme behind Latino USA and all our podcasts: www.futuromediagroup.org/joinplus. Follow us on TikTok and YouTube. Subscribe to our newsletter.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen and subscribe to Money Making Conversations on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, www.moneymakingconversations.com/subscribe/ or wherever you listen to podcasts. New Money Making Conversations episodes drop daily. I want to alert you, so you don’t miss out on expert analysis and insider perspectives from my guests who provide tips that can help you uplift the community, improve your financial planning, motivation, or advice on how to be a successful entrepreneur. Keep winning! Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Yahya Muhammad. Topic: Entrepreneurship, legacy, and community impact through his ice cream business, Shawn Michelle’s Homemade Ice Cream Yahya Muhammad shares his journey from tasting unforgettable homemade ice cream as a child to founding one of Chicago’s most beloved ice cream brands. His story is one of perseverance, cultural pride, and community service, rooted in faith and inspired by family and fraternity.
Listen and subscribe to Money Making Conversations on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, www.moneymakingconversations.com/subscribe/ or wherever you listen to podcasts. New Money Making Conversations episodes drop daily. I want to alert you, so you don’t miss out on expert analysis and insider perspectives from my guests who provide tips that can help you uplift the community, improve your financial planning, motivation, or advice on how to be a successful entrepreneur. Keep winning! Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Yahya Muhammad. Topic: Entrepreneurship, legacy, and community impact through his ice cream business, Shawn Michelle’s Homemade Ice Cream Yahya Muhammad shares his journey from tasting unforgettable homemade ice cream as a child to founding one of Chicago’s most beloved ice cream brands. His story is one of perseverance, cultural pride, and community service, rooted in faith and inspired by family and fraternity.
Hidden Killers With Tony Brueski | True Crime News & Commentary
Thirteen months in a cell at Westville, lights on around the clock, a camera watching, and a guard outside the door writing down everything Richard Allen said. On September 21, 2026, the State of Indiana defended every day of it to the Indiana Court of Appeals, and what its lawyer called those conditions is the thread running through this full breakdown with defense attorney Bob Motta.The Delphi murders conviction stands on statements Allen made inside that unit in April and May 2023, 61 of them by the state's count, to his wife, his mother, guards, a warden, and the psychologist treating him. Appeal lawyer Mark Leeman argued they came from a man the prison's own psychiatrist had found on the floor covered in filth and declared gravely disabled. The state argued Allen was in restrictive housing because a county jail could not keep him safe, that the conditions were ordinary custody, and that the confessions that matter came when he was lucid.From there the hearing went to the man the jury never heard about. Brad Holder, investigated in 2017 and never charged, has a hand tattoo Leeman says matches the sticks laid on Abby Williams, and social media posts the defense wanted jurors to see. The state's answer was a landfill time card placing him 25 miles away.Then the bullet and the face. A single unfired cartridge was matched to Allen's pistol by a method the defense calls junk science. The sketch Betsy Blair helped draw of the man she saw on the bridge never reached the jury, because Judge Frances Gull kept it out.Bob and I go through every clip and every rule underneath it, from the burden of proof on a confession to what harmless error would mean for a man serving 130 years for killing Abby Williams and Libby German.The panel has the case under advisement.Listen Anywhere You Get Podcasts: https://pod.link/1655749292Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspod?sub_confirmation=1Join Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspodX Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodThis publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice.#DelphiMurders #RichardAllen #HiddenKillers #DelphiAppeal #AbbyAndLibby #IndianaCourtOfAppeals #BobMotta #TrueCrime #Westville #TrueCrimeCommunity
Hidden Killers With Tony Brueski | True Crime News & Commentary
Eighteen months. That's how long Alleigha Botner waited for Caleb Flynn to leave his wife Ashley — and psychotherapist Shavaun Scott tells Tony Brueski that the length of the wait is itself a clinical finding.Scott joins the conversation to map the psychology of the holding pattern at the center of the Caleb Flynn murder trial. Flynn wanted his wife, his children, his church reputation, and Botner. He wasn't choosing. He was collecting. Scott says the profile isn't just narcissistic — it's a specific form of entitlement where a man genuinely can't conceive that his double life has an expiration date.Botner's psychology is the other half. She gave Flynn a firm deadline in January: leave Ashley or this is done. He blew past it without acknowledgment. They broke up. On Valentine's Day, he reappeared, and she took him back. Scott explains the pattern: intermittent reinforcement, the same behavioral loop that keeps a gambler at the table. Long stretches of nothing punctuated by sudden attention create a bond that's chemically harder to break than consistent affection. The brain doesn't process the deprivation as a warning. It processes the return as a reward.Meanwhile, Botner spent holidays alone while Flynn played the family man at his own table. Scott walks through the sunk-cost fallacy that kept her anchored — eighteen months of secrecy, emotional investment, and social isolation made leaving feel like failure rather than survival.Scott addresses the question every friend in this situation is already asking: if you're watching someone disappear into this kind of relationship, what actually reaches them? The answer isn't what most people try first. Scott explains what the research says works — and why the instinct to shake someone out of it usually drives them deeper in.Listen Anywhere You Get Podcasts: https://pod.link/1655749292 Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspod?sub_confirmation=1 Join Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/ Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspod X Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodThis publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice.#CalebFlynn #AlleighaBotner #HiddenKillers #AshleyFlynn #CalebFlynnTrial #TrueCrime #ShavaunScott #AmericanIdol #TrueCrimePodcast #ToxicRelationship
Keefer Madness involves former Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin showing off his Minecraft city he has spent the last 12 years building in his spare time. Jones and Keefe try to understand it and it seems oddly therapeutic.
A few weeks ago, I told you Scott and I each get our own fun money every month, no questions asked. Now I'm putting my money where my mouth is - literally. In this episode, I'm walking through exactly how I spent my fun money in September. Every category, every purchase, no filter. If you've ever been curious what "guilt-free spending" actually looks like in practice (not just in theory), this one's for you.You'll learn:Exactly where my fun money went this SeptemberWhat surprised me when I added it all upWhat guilt-free spending actually looks like in real life, not just theoryHow this system has actually helped Scott and me communicate better about moneyGet 9 Ways to Break Up With Your Credit Cardswww.katyalmstrom.com/9-waysBook a free consultation call with Katy: calendly.com/almstromcoaching/moneywisechatThe best way to connect with Katy online is in the Debt Payoff for Women Community! www.facebook.com/groups/debtpayoffforwomen
We had Mark Terry-Lush back in episode 94 started his career in the glory days of magazines when Vogue was the size of a phone book and PR was full of big personalities. He worked with some of the most iconic names in the industry and learned how to tell and sell a story. But after 30 years, he realised his biggest mistake: confusing adaptability with focus.In this episode, Mark shares why chasing every opportunity can leave you feeling lost, what happens when you spend decades building everyone else's brand instead of your own, and how to find clarity in a noisy world.Click here to listen to the full episode 94.Send us Fan MailStruggling to prove marketing's worth to your board? Grab our free one-page Board-Proof Scorecard:
71-year-old Douglas Carter walked out of prison this week after spending 40 years on death row for a 1985 murder he says he never committed. Carter was finally freed after DNA from the crime scene excluded him as a suspect. Carter was finally granted a new trial last year after the Utah Supreme Court ruled the two witnesses who testified against him recanted their stories, revealing that police and a prosecutor gave them cash and gifts to point the finger at Carter. Prosecutors agreed with the judge to release Carter, despite objections from the victims’ family.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
71-year-old Douglas Carter walked out of prison this week after spending 40 years on death row for a 1985 murder he says he never committed. Carter was finally freed after DNA from the crime scene excluded him as a suspect. Carter was finally granted a new trial last year after the Utah Supreme Court ruled the two witnesses who testified against him recanted their stories, revealing that police and a prosecutor gave them cash and gifts to point the finger at Carter. Prosecutors agreed with the judge to release Carter, despite objections from the victims’ family.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
71-year-old Douglas Carter walked out of prison this week after spending 40 years on death row for a 1985 murder he says he never committed. Carter was finally freed after DNA from the crime scene excluded him as a suspect. Carter was finally granted a new trial last year after the Utah Supreme Court ruled the two witnesses who testified against him recanted their stories, revealing that police and a prosecutor gave them cash and gifts to point the finger at Carter. Prosecutors agreed with the judge to release Carter, despite objections from the victims’ family.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nate Johnson grew up in Michigan, turned to the streets at a young age, and cycled in and out of juvenile detention and jail before a drug and robbery case sent him to Michigan state prison for 12 and a half years. But somewhere inside those walls, everything changed. He found his purpose, committed himself to rebuilding his life, and walked out determined to help others do the same. Today, Nate has built Michigan's largest reentry organization, co-founded the state's first reentry conference and a national reentry convening, and is now developing a "Reentry Ecosystem" aimed at changing how America approaches life after prison. _____________________________________________ Become an EXCLUSIVE Locked In: After Hours Member & receive a FREE merch box: https://lockedin.supportingcast.fm/ _____________________________________________ Connect with Nate Johnson: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-johnson-ncs Website: https://www.nextchapterssolutions.com/ _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 A shooting on the street 00:26 Introducing Nate Johnson 00:54 Free merch and bonus content 01:44 Growing up in Muskegon 02:19 Dysfunctional family life 05:40 Trouble begins in fifth grade 08:41 Selling weed and stealing bikes 12:52 The crack trade and double-ups 20:24 Police raids and the setup 27:05 Arrest and false evidence 30:27 Returning home and family struggles 32:20 Connecting with dad over crack 34:11 Gang violence and losing Ted 37:27 Seeking revenge 38:30 Learning the drug trade 41:41 Armed robbery and prison sentence 45:27 The robbery detail and trial 47:50 Sentenced and to prison 49:26 First years inside 51:26 Reduced sentence and faith 56:17 Dad's warning and spiritual awakening 01:00:23 Transformation and purpose 01:04:50 Coming home and fresh start 01:06:53 Launching Re-entry United 01:09:40 Inside conferences and expansion 01:12:17 Next Chapter Solutions and tech 01:16:53 Housing and entrepreneurship 01:21:12 Impact and thankfulness 01:22:15 Navigating change in prison 01:25:52 Respect and authenticity 01:28:10 Fatherhood and affirmation 01:33:08 Parents' passing 01:37:52 Family and kids' names 01:46:48 Teaching life lessons to sons 01:49:47 Final thoughts and thanks _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka
Jon Harris joins Ryan Helfenbein for a wide-ranging conversation about the history of the Religious Right, the fracturing of the conservative coalition, and the growing temptation among some Christians to burn down the political system rather than work within it. Jon explains how evangelicals went from being largely sidelined by the Republican establishment to having a meaningful seat at the political table—and why he believes Christians should be careful before throwing that influence away. They discuss:• How the Religious Right emerged in the 1970s and 1980s• Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ronald Reagan, and the rise of the Moral Majority• How Donald Trump changed the relationship between evangelicals and the Republican coalition• The growing divide within the conservative movement• The danger of accelerationism and “burn it all down” politics• Why Christians should recognize political gains without compromising personal virtue• Why virtue and religious faith are foundational to a free society• Why politics is the “art of the possible”• The importance of Christians becoming informed, getting involved, and building better institutions• Why Christians should not “throw away the ladder” when there is still an opportunity to climb. Ultimately, this conversation is about more than elections. It is about whether Christians will patiently build, preserve what has been gained, and cultivate the virtue necessary for a free society. Jon Harris is the author of Against the Waves: Christian Order in a Liberal Age and host of Conversations That Matter.
71-year-old Douglas Carter walked out of prison this week after spending 40 years on death row for a 1985 murder he says he never committed. Carter was finally freed after DNA from the crime scene excluded him as a suspect. Carter was finally granted a new trial last year after the Utah Supreme Court ruled the two witnesses who testified against him recanted their stories, revealing that police and a prosecutor gave them cash and gifts to point the finger at Carter. Prosecutors agreed with the judge to release Carter, despite objections from the victims’ family.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Ali Taylor grew up able to predict a room before he ever walked into it. Wherever something was missing, he figured out how to be it. That's how he survived his house. It's also how he built his entire adult life. He's a business consultant now. He helps business owners build companies that don't depend on them for everything, so they can actually have a life outside of work. He's excellent at spotting what a business is missing and filling it … because he's been doing that his whole life. But for most of his life, he had no idea what he needed. It took his mom dying, a new relationship, and a therapist with a feelings wheel to find out. When reading everyone else becomes the way you survive childhood, it becomes the operating system well into adulthood.. And, it often becomes a skill you get praised for. But it costs you the ability to feel what's real for you.. Here's what he found once he stopped scanning the room and started scanning himself:
I spent a day exploring Helsinki, Finland, and this is my honest experience.From the airport train and rainy streets to the sightseeing bus, Oodi Library, museums, and the surprisingly quiet city centre, this episode shares what I genuinely remember about visiting Finland. It is not a travel guide, just one traveller's perspective.In this episode:* Arriving at Helsinki Airport* The train into the city* Helsinki sightseeing bus* Oodi Central Library* Museums and shopping centre* Why the city felt so quiet* Would I visit Finland again?If you've been to Helsinki, let me know in the comments whether your experience was the same or completely different.The Show with Xander is a travel and personal storytelling podcast featuring honest experiences from around the world.#Helsinki #Finland #TravelPodcast #Travel #Nordic #TheShowWithXander”
A transatlantic journey, military-grade security operations, and a multimillion-dollar price tag: a breakdown of Donald Trump's visit to his Doonbeg golf resort in Ireland. While officially framed as a diplomatic state visit with Irish leadership, federal procurement records and flight logistics reveal a massive taxpayer-funded undertaking centered around a private commercial property. From Secret Service golf cart contracts to casual remarks that unsettled delicate regional politics in Northern Ireland, this video explores the operational costs, legal conflicts, and political fallout of presidential travel to personal business assets. Independent media has never been more important. Please support this channel by subscribing here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkbwLFZhawBqK2b9gW08z3g?sub_confirmation=1 Join this channel with a membership for exclusive early access and bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkbwLFZhawBqK2b9gW08z3g/join Five Minute News is a MeidasTouch Podcast, covering politics, inequality, health and climate - delivering independent, unbiased and essential news for the US and across the world. Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/fiveminutenews.bsky.social Follow us on Instagram http://instagram.com/fiveminnews Support us on Patreon http://www.patreon.com/fiveminutenews Support Anthony on Substack https://theanthonydavis.substack.com You can subscribe to Five Minute News with your preferred podcast app, ask your smart speaker, or enable Five Minute News as your Amazon Alexa Flash Briefing skill. CONTENT DISCLAIMER The views and opinions expressed on this channel are those of the guests and authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of The MeidasTouch Network, Anthony Davis or Five Minute News LLC. Any content provided by our hosts, guests or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything, in line with the First Amendment right to free and protected speech. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Dentistry is most important when a patient is in the practice. As soon as they leave, there are a million other parts of their life competing for priority. Tiff and Dana discuss how to talk about dental care with your patients so it doesn't get lost under the heap of everything else. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiffanie (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back again to podcast with you. To yeah, I loved that Dana. Dana's got some excitement in her veins today. I think it's nice out. Honestly, it's nice out. I had I had to close this window the last podcast. That's what you saw me do. and then I have another window open and I'm in Phoenix. We don't open our windows often, and I've only got like probably thirty minutes left of this window being open. DAT-Dana (00:27) Right. Tiffanie (00:29) but it's energizing. I feel like I just need the fresh air and and it's just beautiful out. So I can imagine Dana where you are if it's this beautiful here and then Brodie's in he's forty five minutes south. So he's in Tempe and he sent a picture and it was more beautiful and I'm like, gosh, go another hour and a half past that towards Dana. It's gotta be just gorgeous down there right now. DAT-Dana (00:51) It is. I feel like though Phoenix can just be gorgeous and be gorgeous. Further south, and there's an as you know, Tiff, because you kind of grew up in this area. Tiffanie (00:58) Mm-hmm. DAT-Dana (01:00) if it is sunny and beautiful, then typically it's paired with wind, right? So I feel like my windows are never Tiffanie (01:04) This is DAT-Dana (01:06) open because even when in the temperature is beautiful enough to have them open, the wind is going and I don't want all Tiffanie (01:12) yeah. DAT-Dana (01:13) the desert dust you know, sitting in my living room. So Tiffanie (01:17) I love what you just said. I love it. So Brodie texted me a picture and I said, Gosh, that's prettier than here. I said, This is this weather is the only thing I miss about living in Sierra Vista. And what you just said, people say, Why did you move? Like the weather was the weather is better in Sierra Vista. It literally is. The temperatures DAT-Dana (01:33) Yeah. Yes. Tiffanie (01:35) are better. You get a better winter, you get better seasonality. Like it is just better. And people say, Well, why did you move? And I say, Because of the wind. I legitimately 90% moved because I couldn't you just can't be in it. It whips your hair, like it hurts my hair hitting my face as a child. I remember the pain of that and the tangles and brushing my hair out at the end of the day because I had to walk home from the bus. Like legitimately, Dana, the wind. I can't handle Southern Arizona winds. Yeah. Yeah. DAT-Dana (02:12) Yep, yep, you hit it. You hit it right on. Tiffanie (02:15) Spent my I spent my whole childhood there. I lived in Sierra Vista till I was what, twenty? I think I moved up here when I was twenty. I can't I can't do it. So yeah, I love that you said that. And everyone listening, you just got a nice little taste of the Arizona weather history there. It's never changed. It's still windy. So if you want wind, go down south. If you want really cool honestly, it's it's beautiful down there. So if you haven't visited Southern Arizona, meaning Like Phoenix is cool too. Obviously Sedona. But if you haven't been south of Phoenix, Tucson has some really cool stuff. But then you get into like Saurita, where you are, and Senoida, there's like wine country, there's Tombstone, Isbe. Like there's a lot to do down there. And I discredit it and disvalue it 'cause I grew up in it. but it is really beautiful. And on to dental. Yeah. Yeah. DAT-Dana (03:08) Yeah, but my windows just stay closed. So I can look at the beauty. I just Yep. Right. Yeah. Tiffanie (03:13) My windows stay closed because it's too hot. So in Arizona we just don't open windows. Okay. It's just stifling in our house all the time. It's fine. So on that note, dental. Dana, we get fed podcast topics. and then you and I, I love that you and I are just like, nah, we're not gonna do that one today. I don't I didn't like the other one. So today we we already talked about kind of Prepping for changes and and systems that work in the midst of change. That was a a podcast we just recorded. So if you haven't heard that one, go back, find it after this one. You don't need it beforehand. But they kinda go I think they kinda go hand in hand because one change that we oftentimes don't prep for because we don't know it's coming, is accepted treatment still like falling off of a schedule. And I think that happens a lot. I have a lot of practices that are like, It's full until the day before or two days before or gosh my hygiene schedule's full six months. I can't get ab get anybody in. But then the week of it's falling apart. So we're not here to talk about hygiene. There's plenty of those podcasts. Go search it. But we are going to talk about why accepted treatment still falls off of the schedule. And Dana, right before we started this podcast, you said something and I was like, Yep, another drop mic drop moment from Dana. She'll always give them to us. I would love for you to repeat what you said right before we got on this podcast because I think that it's true and I think that's where we start. DAT-Dana (04:38) Yeah. I I am known for my brutal honesty tips. So what I Tiffanie (04:42) Ha ha DAT-Dana (04:44) said before we got on is like treatment that falls up after the fact is typically for the same reasons that we hear patients give us that they don't schedule to begin with. Tiffanie (04:53) Yes, yes. And I got excited about that because I believe that oftentimes we work so hard in like the sales side of dentistry that or not that we work so hard on the sales side of dentistry to get a yes that they're just like, okay, yes, fine, I'll schedule it. Like, well, what about this hurdle? What about this hurdle? And yes, I wanna work objections and I wanna I wanna get over hurdles. But I think Dana, in what you said, you said the same, they they fall off the schedule for the same reason that people don't schedule. And I wonder if not every time, but if sometimes those patients who are falling off weren't actually a yes, they were a let me out of this office right now, right? Because I I've taken a lot of Communication courses, a lot of relationship style courses. I've done a lot of emotional intelligence and just like communication stuff. And something that is tried and true in every aspect of anything that I've done extracurricularly is the relationship comes first. And Knowing the person, knowing the why, knowing the reason, and speaking to that and overcoming, helping someone overcome an issue or a problem and seeing better on the other side is the most important factor. And oftentimes in our objections and our conversations of our hurdles, I wonder if that aspect of the communication gets missed because it's more about checking check boxes. than it is about investing in the person. And maybe I'm being wild, but when you said that, that's where my brain went and I was like, gosh, it's the relationships. Dana, what are you what's your perspective? What are you seeing on your side? DAT-Dana (06:47) Yeah, I 100% agree with you. And I feel like when because we hear it all the time when we go into park, well, it falls out because life happens, right? Well, you're right. Tiffanie (06:55) Yeah. DAT-Dana (06:56) Life is going to happen. and typically we will also kind of say that like dentistry is most important when the patient is in the office. So then when life happens, right, it becomes less and less important. And I think that you're absolutely right. And to me, it tells me that like I actually didn't really listen and get to the bottom of what actually was holding the patient back or what their no actually was. And so yes, I got a yes, which great, but I didn't actually get a yes that meant I'm fully committed, I fully understand, I'm fully ready to go. and so then that's kind of why we see it fall off. And I feel like The biggest thing is life is going to happen for your patients when they leave the practice. So if they don't know where, when, how to prioritize the dentistry that you are talking about with them in life happening, then we didn't get it right. Right, because life is gonna happen and I need to know that if my dog chews 35 Legos, like she's been doing every week and has to have an emergency vet visit, right? That Tiffanie (08:00) Yep. DAT-Dana (08:01) like I know where my dentistry needs to fall in the spectrum of the things of my dog eating 35 Legos, right? Do I need Tiffanie (08:08) Yeah. DAT-Dana (08:08) that crown or does the dog need to so life happens, absolutely. Tiffanie (08:12) Yeah. DAT-Dana (08:13) But I think our biggest tool is treatment coordinators or people that talk about treatment or even the dentists, right? Tre doing the treatment planning in the back is they need to know where to prioritize the dental work that needs done with the life things that are going to happen. And I think when we just get that artificial yes, that didn't happen. Because they Tiffanie (08:34) Yeah. DAT-Dana (08:34) left and something came up in their life, or they left and were just like, I do it all the time. I go to Target, I put all these things in my cart, and as I'm walking up to the thing, I'm like, I don't really need that. Or Tiffanie (08:44) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. DAT-Dana (08:46) you know what? I don't, I don't really need my lips moisturized. That chapstick can go. Right. And so Tiffanie (08:50) Yep. Yep. DAT-Dana (08:51) those things start to happen. And if you think about doing that and you think about, okay, well, how What would make someone take the dentistry out of their cart, right, and stick it back on the shelf? It's probably because we didn't get to the bottom of what is important to them. We didn't build that relationship with them. We didn't understand who they were and how they make their decisions. And we didn't get through to them where to prioritize this decision and all the other decisions they're going to make the second they leave the office. Tiffanie (09:21) Absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. And that's not something that I think people innately know how to do, especially in the workplace, because in my opinion, we think of work as transactional, right? You go it work, the word work is transactional, right? You do something for something. you work out at the gym to get stronger, right? To get healthier. You do something for something. So it's always transactional. And transactional doesn't always translate to the emotional side of it. And we miss that mark. And in in dentistry, dentistry is weird, right? Because d medical, like med they don't have to think about this very often, right? One, they've got a million people walking through the door all day. They don't it's a rare occasion that someone's really concerned if you're coming back or not. So if you have a provider like that, please by all means share it on all the platforms because we all need one. In dentistry, one, it's that's not how it happens. We don't have a million people coming through the doors. And two, we actually literally are more invested in the people that are coming to our practices. Dentists in general sought out dentistry for a different reason than many medical professionals at least are practicing now, right? I think that they probably had a good reason to get into it, but throughout the years something shifted and changed for for many people. My point of that. is that we discredit that emotional side of it and we become more transactional where it's like, okay, the next step in the in the flow is schedule. And so we're like, okay, great. I reviewed the estimate. You've got that estimate. No questions. Great. Let's schedule. Right. And then they're like, I'll call you. And we're like, well, what difference is let me get you on the schedule now. So that I would hate for you to forget. Let me put you on the schedule now. We'll block out the time. And then if if there's you get to work and there's a work Event in the way, give me a call. Right? I've done that a million times. Like, no, no. Now I'm supposed to say, Well, let's get it on the schedule, because now it's on the schedule, it's accepted. Right? But then that patient is like laxadaisy about the appointment or what have you. Because I didn't I didn't ask what's holding you back. Like, great, tell me more about this. Tell me when I would sit patients down for a treatment plan, I've I've done this for a long time. And in the same practice I had the awesome opportunity of testing out a million things over the almost 13 years I was at this practice and I've watched myself evolve. I can look back now and see like how I evolved from the transactional to the they sit down in front of me and I'm like, hey, they said you need a crown. Wha how what do you think about that? And sometimes patients were like they would just cry. They're like, I don't even I don't have anything like this. Or sometimes patients are like, I knew it was coming or can't they just pull it? Like now I'm in a conversation and now I can learn more about the patient, their thought process, their priorities, right? Like can't you just pull it? Well, tell me why that's where you jump. From a crown to a pull, for me, that's a massive, that's a massive jump. Let me tell you why. And then you tell me why you took that leap. What's the priority there for you so that I can understand more? But instead we're so transactional, we're like, no, that would be wild. You need a crown. And it's gonna be this much. And we stick to that transactional checklist instead of being like, Well, let me be curious, like what makes you wanna just pull out the tooth? Because to me, in dentistry, you blew my mind with that statement. So tell me why you want to pull that tooth out. But we don't always think to ask those questions. So Dana, like this is all very Kiera would be like, Yes, Tiff, this is great, but like what's the track like what's the action item, right? So like This is all great. How do we train? And I know you and I both work on this with practices, but how do we train a treatment coordinator or a doctor, right? A dentist diagnosing can do these things too. So what DAT-Dana (13:30) Yeah. Tiffanie (13:30) are some like tips that you give practices to say, hey, get more relational and less transactional without saying those words? DAT-Dana (13:38) Yeah. I I think one, it is just just like you said, it's kind of shifting your mindset. I always teach teams at the end of the day, we want the yes, right? But we want a yes that is good for both of you, right? Like you as a treatment coordinator and them as the patient. And just getting a yes, like you said, is super transactional. So to me, how I train teams is we have to just ask more questions. We have to ask what's holding them back. We have to ask. what would a budget be that they're comfortable with? We have to ask like if they feel like third party financing is an option for them. We have to ask if they even want to save the tooth. We have Tiffanie (14:14) Yeah. DAT-Dana (14:14) to just ask more questions. And I feel like It's again, I like gonna highlight the podcast we did before. Please go find it. It was a good one, but like it comes down to communication and it comes down to just asking more questions because every question that you ask is going to break down a barrier in some way. And it might present a new one that we have to work through, but it's getting treatment coordinators to understand that your job is to partner with the patient and figure out a way. There is always away. And I like I say this all the time. There's no financial barrier that you like really can't truly overcome. You can break down treatment, you can break down payments, you can pay ahead of time and then add third party. You can like there are you have to get super creative sometimes, absolutely. But you have to really feel in your bones that it is so important for this patient to have done what is needed to be done and you have to be willing to ask whatever question it takes. to get to the point where you can both feel really good about a yes. Not just you, because you got the yes. You both have to feel really good about the yes. Tiffanie (15:23) I totally agree. Yeah, that was beautiful. And then get some pre-collect. DAT-Dana (15:28) Yes. Tiffanie (15:29) I the money mindset is far overlooked. there's a statement I wanted to remember to say. One of the things that I learned in all of the training that I've done is to be more interested than interesting. And I think about that all the time because human nature is to talk about ourselves, right? Or to be right or to have the the most information and in dentistry, especially my treatment coordinators, my office managers, my billing reps. Like we I think sometimes feel like we have something to prove, right? That we're we do know what we're talking about because there isn't a formal you don't get to go to school to be a treatment coordinator and you come out with a certificate or a degree in treatment planning. Like you just don't we learn it on the job. We learn it by going to CE. We learn it because we hired a consultant, the Dental A Team and they were wonderful. Like We learn these things through doing it. And so I think sometimes we wanna make sure that people know what we know what we're doing. So we can get a little transactional in it and a little dry. So making sure that we're being more interested, meaning to Dana's point, like asking more questions. Be be in the why, be in the why is it that way? What do you feel about that? Tell me more, right? So the one aspect. And then the the like hurdle of the collecting in advance or something you've already paid for, right? Everybody, it's all over Instagram. You guys just look up like girl math, right? But this is one majority of your patients are probably female. I'm just gonna point that out there. Okay. So girl math works. Two, I don't think it's just women who think this way 99.9% of the time, right? Money out, money spent is already gone. You're likely not going to have someone call you and it it does happen. I'm not gonna say it won't. It does happen, especially for large sums, but it is going to be very rare that someone calls and says, Hey, my dog ate 35 Legos yesterday and I need that $600 that I put towards that crown back so I can take him to the vet. They're gonna find another way to pay for the vet bill because they've already paid the $600 or whatever towards the treatment that they're getting done at your practice. So whether they're paying full in advance, they're paying partial, having some skin in the game. And having committed financially locks it in place. And it is a psychological proven skill that works every single time. Money is already gone. We've already accounted for that money to be gone. We've already formulated a plan to get it back. And we're we've moved forward. So Dana, do you I do you still this is a real question? Do you still find that you Have pushback from teams to collect in advance. I feel like for me, it's like less and less over time. It's 2026 now, and the time of recording this, I can tell you five years ago it was much different than it is today. What are you seeing? you see more new clients than I do. I don't, I don't DAT-Dana (18:38) Do Tiffanie (18:38) take on new clients, so you're gonna have a better pool to choose from. Are you still seeing pushback from teams when it comes to pre collecting? DAT-Dana (18:48) Feel like I do still see some because it's an uncomfortable space. It's a new space. And I think anytime we're putting people in a new space, you do get a little bit of resistance, but it is nowhere near what I used to get because honestly and truly Tiff, teams are exhausted in trying to Tiffanie (19:03) Yeah. DAT-Dana (19:03) build and rebuild and refill and backfill and replace what they've already replaced in their schedule. And and I think that. For so long, like yes, cancellation policies are great. Yes, all those pieces we wanna have them in place, but I think Pre-collecting, I think, works wonders in that area. And I think that team members are willing to do things or try things like just to keep their schedule solid. So I agree with you. I think that more and more team members are open to it. More and more team members also just understand, like I think sometimes just put your patient hat on and yeah, I'm probably not gonna miss an appointment that I've already paid for. And so I do feel like A lot of my calls are around like just schedule changes and then the process of that. And then, you know, we're trying to chase down patients because they're working the same hours we're working and and all of that. And I think teams are exhausted from trying to fill and backfill their schedule. And so I do think that like pre-collecting in those pieces, because again, it's like a yes that you can be super confident is a yes. Like I Tiffanie (20:17) Yeah. DAT-Dana (20:18) said before, I yes, it feels good for both of you. I think when it's yes and there's a financial commitment that feels really good for me because I know that patient is invested, is going to come. And that's probably not a spot unless there's a super rare thing that pops up that I'm gonna have to then do that extra behind the scenes work to fill. And so I Tiffanie (20:39) Yeah. DAT-Dana (20:40) agree with you. I think teams are a little bit more open to it. I think teams are a little bit more willing to kind of see the benefits of it because honestly and truly schedule changes I think are still just a really big highlight in a practice. And anything that's going to lighten that load, I think is massive for teams. Tiffanie (21:02) I completely agree. Thank you. I hope that the dentists who are listening today heard that. The office managers who are listening. Because I I think, Dana, from what I've seen, I agree with you. I think teams are exhausted and they're like, I'll do it, I'll try it. Right. And I think we have to we're so used to paying for things these days before we get it. It used to be like, Well, I can't get like I don't get my stuff from Target. Like I walk out and I pay for it at the same time. But now It's an Amazon Prime culture. We're paying for things before it ever ships to our door. And I'm gonna tell you right now, there are times that that thing never even comes. Right? It never gets here. And I'm like, it's lost in someone's trunk and they're sending me a new one. massage therapists, right? I booked a massage for a surprise massage for Aaron a couple months ago. I had to pay online, I had to pay on the app to before I could schedule the appointment for him. So I'm like, well, he's he better freaking go because I already paid for it. concert tickets, there's nothing there's not a lot right now that we pay for that we're not paying before we get the thing. And we're paying pretty far in advance for something. So it's that culture, that mindset has shifted. But I think that business owners, it's it's personal. Right? They're paying for your treatment, for your business, for you to provide them with something. So it's more personal. And I say this because to To everything that Dana said, I want you to take that to heart because I think it's more often a dentist and a business owner that says, my team's not going to like that, than the team saying no, we won't do that. And so I want you to give them the chance, the shot, the opportunity to make their lives easier and get the actual yes. Because in my opinion, case acceptance is scheduled and paid for. Treatment that is scheduled and paid for. Is accepted, right? And I don't hold that, I don't, that's not my like standard bar for everyone. You guys get to decide what that looks like, but to Dana's point, scheduled and paid for is less likely to fall off the schedule. So if that's where you can set your bar, you're gonna have a more full schedule. So I love that, Dana. So I would say one, I loved your ask more questions, so B Be invested in the person, be interested in who they are and why they're making decisions the way that they do. And I think Dana, something you said was how are they making the decisions? Like how, what is their priority in the decision making? If you can get to that point in just asking more questions and being interested in them, you're gonna get your yes. And then I would say if you don't do some sort of prepayments, if your schedule is falling apart, even if it's not, I think it's smart. But if you're someone who's here because that title said accept a treatment is still falling off your schedule, put in those pre-collects. At least collect a portion, I would say 50% to 60% down holds the appointment. Dana, thank you so much. I knew this one would go I knew it would go well. We didn't super prep for it. And I feel like the ones that we don't super prep for are the ones where our minds really start getting on a a good track. So Dana, thank you for your time today. Thank you for your nuggets as always. And On behalf of everyone, Dana, thank you for your brutal honesty. Always a pleasure. Thank you. It's DAT-Dana (24:25) Anytime Tiffanie (24:27) always accepted. I love brutal honesty. and with that, that is a wrap for today's podcast. You guys go re-listen. There were some gems in here. Like Dana, thank you so much. You you dropped some massive gems, and business owners, try it, just try it out, see if it works, see how it works, see how you can manipulate it to work best for you guys. If you guys need help with it, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Also TheDentalATeam.com, you can sign up for a live like video call session with our team, and they'll help you figure out the gaps and figure out a way to fill those gaps. And so Hello@TheDentalATeam.com and TheDentalATeam.com as always. Thank you for listening. Drop us a five-star review below. We love to hear from you. And we'll catch you next time.
How much money would you have to have before you completely lose the ability to say, “You know what? That's probably a stupid way to spend my money.” This week on the FratChat Podcast, we're diving into The Most Ridiculous Things Celebrities Have Spent Money On, and we're talking about some truly insane shit. We're talking about Paris Hilton building a $325,000 mansion for her dogs, Mike Tyson dropping $2 million on a bathtub, Kim Kardashian and Kanye West reportedly spending $750,000 on four gold plated toilets, Barbra Streisand literally building a tiny shopping district underneath her house. And that's just the beginning. Basically, if you've ever felt guilty about spending $200 on something you didn't need, this episode should make you feel a whole lot better. Plus, we've got plenty of FratChat chaos outside the main topic. CMo opens the show by revealing that he's officially back on the market, which leads to a surprisingly honest conversation about breakups, being alone, and why “just go sleep with someone new” might be the worst relationship advice of all time. In Emails From the Listeners, we help a listener decide whether to confess that she was the mystery person who puked inside her boyfriend's closet during a football party, while another listener asks what to do about a coworker's controversial social media posts. Then in the News, we have a Florida man who crashed his truck while applying deodorant behind the wheel, because apparently smelling fresh was more important than keeping his GMC Sierra on the road. And in Not the Drag Queens, we get into the legal case involving Florida state representative Fabian Basabe, including his decision to represent himself in court and the fallout from the jury's verdict. Got a question, comment or topic for us to cover? Let us know! Send us an email at fratchatpodcast@gmail.com or follow us on all social media: Instagram: http://Instagram.com/FratChatPodcast Facebook: http://Facebook.com/FratChatPodcast Twitter: http://Twitter.com/FratChatPodcast YouTube: http://YouTube.com/@fratchatpodcast Follow Carlos and CMO on social media! Carlos: IG: http://Instagram.com/CarlosDoesTheWorld YouTube: http://YouTube.com/@carlosdoestheworld TikTok: http://TikTok.com/@carlosdoestheworld Twitter: http://Twitter.com/CarlosDoesWorld Threads: http://threads.net/carlosdoestheworld Website: http://carlosgarciacomedy.com Chris ‘CMO' Moore: IG: http://Instagram.com/Chris.Moore.Comedy TikTok: http://TikTok.com/@chris.moore.comedy Twitter: http://Twitter.com/cmoorecomedy Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Finishing up the conversation with Eric Hasseltine; The List: IKEA, Charles Barkley; Jonah Dylan Joins the Show to Talk How he Spent the Tigers' Bye Week, Previewing the Tigers' Trip to Charlotte, & More from College Football!
What if your AI strategy is creating more risk than progress? John Willis joins Andrew Stotz to trace how Deming's System of Profound Knowledge shaped the way he thinks about organizations, learning, and change. From his early days building DevOps to the AI transformations he's navigating with CIOs today. Along the way, John connects Deming to fast feedback loops, explains why leaders keep mistaking a learning problem for a technology problem, and shares stories that never made it into his book, Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge. A fresh conversation for longtime Deming thinkers and those just beginning the journey. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.0 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm here with featured guest, John Willis. John, how are you doing? 0:00:15.7 John Willis: Great, Andrew. I was just thinking, I feel like that song, like I got my picture on the cover of Rolling Stone. Like, I'm on the Deming Institute podcast. Yay. [laughter] 0:00:24.9 Andrew Stotz: We finally got you on. 0:00:27.8 John Willis: Yeah, yeah. 0:00:30.3 Andrew Stotz: Actually been a while and I wanna introduce you just briefly and then I'll let you do a little bit more of the introduction. But basically on Amazon, a book popped up and I was just looking at the date of that. That book popped up on, for me, it popped up on September 6, 2023 on Audible and I immediately bought it and I got the Audible book and the book's called 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge. How Deming Helped Win a War, Altered the Face of Industry, and Holds the Key to Our Future'. And I immediately got it. Didn't know you, listened to it, loved it. Later you reached out on LinkedIn and we started communicating and you were kind enough to send a copy of it, which I then went through in more detail. I love the book. I really highly recommend the Audible version because it's just fun. Because the book is opening up a whole new Deming lens, a whole new way from somebody that never met Deming, and I just found that fascinating. So maybe why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience so that people know who you are, where you've been, what you've been doing and what you're doing now? 0:01:41.4 John Willis: Yeah, no, no, great. I... So, yeah, I... I've been doing technology, usually high consequence business, regulated industry, banks, retail, the biggest of the bigs, where the technology is incredibly important. Right? And I've been doing five decades of basic technology transformations, and I'm kind of the person who gets bored real easy. So I've literally gone through, like, you name it, mainframe, centralized computing, client server, distributed computing, priority systems, the Linux Open systems, you know, owned infrastructure cloud, and I'm consider one of the founders of the DevOps movement. And now today, like the cliché that I am, I've been doing a lot of organizational strategy on AI. So I don't come in and tell you how to turn 4,000 developers into AI coders. I kind of tell your CIOs to slow down. Wait a minute. So, yeah, so my day job today is I'm... I think these days finally in my life I would call myself an author first. I've written a number of books. The one you did, I had... My last book was a history of 100 history, 100 Year History of AI. And... But I'm an advisor, so I sort of... I take inbounds. I don't really look for work. Usually it's a chief of staff for a CIO who either has worked with me in the past and hey John, we're underwater with AI. Can you come in? Or they hear something I've said or I do a lot of podcasts and then I'm sort of a quasi investor. Although I probably should listen to your stuff a little better because I'm typically... I'm one of those guys that like, if I invest in it, you go short on it right away. So... [laughter] But yeah. But, yeah, no, so... But my day job today is really, is doing research. I'm actually just sure, this probably opened up a whole another discussion. Maybe later but I'm writing a book about the history of quantum computing right now and that's been just fascinating. So... 0:03:41.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. 0:03:41.8 John Willis: But my day job is helping CIOs and large high consequence organizations try to shuffle through technology transformations. 0:03:50.7 Andrew Stotz: And for the audience there that didn't catch what you were saying at the beginning, it kind of dated you because you were talking about the song called Rolling Stone by Dr. Hook. 0:03:59.9 John Willis: Yeah, yeah, totally. 0:04:01.3 Andrew Stotz: Dr. Hook published this in about 1972. And here are the lyrics. "Wanna see my picture on the cover? Wanna buy five copies for my mother? Wanna see my smiling face on the cover of Rolling Stone?" So here... 0:04:12.8 John Willis: Totally. Yeah. There you go. Deming Institute. Yeah, no, great. 0:04:16.7 Andrew Stotz: And one of the things that I found fascinating was just how you came to Deming from a very different angle. I was lucky enough that my boss at Pepsi sent me to study with him and I did two different seminars. The last one was in 1992. So I was 24, he was 92, was gonna live about one more year. I had... I could literally reach out and touch the man and hold his hand and sit next to him. I got a great picture of me sitting next to him. And I was just a young guy with a fresh mind compared to the 500 guys behind me that were older that he was bashing at times. But tell us a little bit about how you stumbled upon this topic and why you decided to do what you did with writing the book? 0:05:03.7 John Willis: Yeah, no, it's sort of interesting. I sort of say that for the first, I don't know, probably from 1980, my first job was running five distributed large computer systems for Exxon Research and Production, basically the geophysics work, right, during the most hottest period of the oil industry. And there were people doing that part of variation and understanding, but that didn't sort of hit my world. I was supporting geophysical processing and then so I rolled into other jobs. And then probably the closest I came... So in other words, I'm dealing with a lot of these major transformations and always focusing on the meta side, like the organizational. What are the things that are wrong? How do we fix the human and technology? There's a phrase called sociotechnical systems, right? And that's always where I've been most interested. And then even I was at GE Capital and I'll say this with all honesty, I was a Green Belt, but they gave out Green Belts for Six Sigma, [laughter] right? My wife was actually a Black Belt. And... But we would do... And I know Deming hated Six Sigma and all that, but we were doing... It was all around me, right? And then it wasn't until really the DevOps age that we really... That was a major shift in my career because before everything was sort of first generational from a technology or sociotechnical system, very command control, you sort of you installed software in a certain way. There were so many principles that were being broken by DevOps. And I was already an older guy at that point, but I was learning from these young kids and I'm known as the person who introduced DevOps to the US. 0:06:52.3 John Willis: And... But so there is where we started going back and understanding... We thought everything was new. We were creating DevOps, we were doing all this crazy awesome stuff. And I remember a friend of mine, well, a good friend of mine wrote a book called 'The Phoenix Project' by Gene Kim and it's a rewrite of Eliyahu Goldratt's 'The Goal'. And I was like, oh my God. And I read all of Goldratt's books and I was like, okay, this is the way, this is the way. I've seen a glimpse of some 30 or 40 year knowledge that I was missing. And then it was an open space seminar. A good friend of mine says, "John, you know." and I'm going off about Goldratt and he's like, "You know this all goes back to Deming." I'm like, "Who's Deming?" I'm like, "I just spent a year learning everything I could about Goldratt. He is my North Star. And now you're telling me..." And he challenged me. He said, "John, I'll leave it at this. You go read Deming's 14 Points and if you don't... I know you. I know what you're gonna do once you do that." And he was spot on. That was it. I was... And I don't... I'm more into the Profound Knowledge and we could talk a little bit about my journey there. But I was like, oh my goodness, this is the real and I love Eliyahu Goldratt and I love 'The Goal' and I love all his books. But Deming was hitting... Was like punching me right square in the face. 0:08:12.0 Andrew Stotz: So to what gap did it close for you? I mean, Goldratt is very specific about the main limiting point... 0:08:23.2 John Willis: Yeah. 0:08:23.3 Andrew Stotz: The bottleneck, how do we solve this? 0:08:25.6 John Willis: So the 14 Points, sort of one of the jokes is that it's mandatory to put the 14 Points in a DevOps presentation. So we were doing that dance a little bit, but then when I got a little serious about it, actually me and Gene Kim, we did a book. Goldratt has this book called 'Beyond the Goal'. It's an audio-only book, right? And I convinced Gene about five years after he had written 'The Phoenix Project' to do a Beyond the Phoenix Project. And so he did Goldratt, I did Deming. And at that point, I knew enough about Deming to say, "Okay let's..." And then we talked about DevOps and the principles of Lean and we did... I always, when somebody says they bought that audiobook, I'm like, "Oh, you're the 15th person that bought it." right? But it sold more than that. But the... But that's when Gene tapped me on the shoulder and did that. We went to the studio. It was a highlight of my life, literally going to the studio with Gene and literally recording for a couple of weeks. And he's like, "John, you really need to write a book about Dr. Deming." And then I started building a folder. And then the crash course then or the trajectory at that point not really crash course is that you realize the 14 Points are, no disrespect, but vaguely interesting. You're like, "Okay, Mount Everest is System of Profound Knowledge." Right? Because that's the mount... And that's the one where you're like, "Okay, I read 'Out of the Crisis', I think I get it, the 14 Points make sense, but like, what is this stuff he's talking about here?" Right? And then you read 'New Economics' and it's like, "I still..." And then, so for me then, it was, I'm just one of these person like I have... And again, I'm not trying to make myself look like I'm special, but I have to learn. I can't... I'm the worst person in a... If I was in your class, you'd kick me out of your class because I'd be sitting in the front row and you'd be, "Oh no, not you again." 0:09:26.2 Andrew Stotz: Another question. 0:10:26.9 John Willis: Yeah I know just another question. I mean, I've been cut off by professors and... But the... I'm like, "All right, I got to get to the bottom of this." And that was almost a 10-year journey for me of... I had to know. Because it was clear to me that Profound Knowledge or System of Profound Knowledge was not something he invented out of thin air. Like, I had to figure out, where did he get this? And that started the genesis of how I was gonna write the book, which is the journey, 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge'. And that sort of took me into... And what that did, while I was learning that, of course, Deming opened the door to guys like Russell Ackoff and Ashby and just all these other sort of management thinkers and even Drucker or whatever, right? They all sort of started filling out a palette. But meanwhile, I'm still driving hard on Deming. And what that gentleman said to me, good friend of mine, Ben Rockwood, who I give tribute in the book, is when he said to me, almost like tapped me on the head, like, "John, John, John, it all goes back to Deming." Like, you start seeing the clarity of DevOps, Lean, Agile, it all had these things. And so I spent literally a long time really trying to figure out, okay, how did Deming get... We all know variation is relatively simple to understand where he got that from, right? Shewhart's work and all that stuff. And I'm not trivializing the impact of what he did for it, but knowledge was interesting. And knowledge I had to go to pragmatism. You had to understand what C.I. Lewis is. And that's a book that Deming said he had to read seven times. 0:12:03.1 Andrew Stotz: He had to read it seven times...there's no hope for me. [overlapping conversation] 0:12:05.2 John Willis: That's right. No, actually I did Tom Sawyer. I have a friend who's one of the smartest people I know. He's like, "I'll read that." And he explained it to me. But and then I read it. But so knowledge, this sort of, how do we understand? How do we know what we think we really know, right? That whole epistemology and all that. To me, this is like sort of, just give me more, right? And see more and feed me. And then system thinking was interesting, appreciation for system, because then that got me back to, okay, and there was some missing links there. And I found that one of the guys who came up with General Systems Theory, von Bertalanffy, him and yeah, Ackoff. Him and Ackoff had sat in a seminar of his like in the '40s and so there was some influence there. And there's a lot of work that's been going on in systems thinking after him. But so then I got that and then the psychology is tough, right? But so I put all that together. And then my... The thing I was telling you earlier is, when I do the research for a project like this, I read everything that there is about it. So my AI book, I read 25 books on AI, history of AI. I'm up to like 10 books on the history of quantum computing. 0:13:23.4 John Willis: With Deming, I've read every book that's been written by Deming, at least the ones that I know of, right? And one of the things I noticed, the pattern was that they all... Again, I'm just simplifying it. They all started off with a little bit about the biography, some a little longer than others, but in general, most of the book was about the management theory. And it was really a book that was being sold as a business book more than it was as a biography. And one of the things I've always loved about Michael Lewis or that sort of story of nonfiction storytelling is he tells a biography, it's a disguised biography and I thought, my God this... And as I kept compiling over the years all these great stories, you know, the Doris Quinn story, right? The woman who, she went to New Guinea and Deming... Spent the last two years of her life with Deming. I mean, most of the people that are Deming disciples didn't even know about this woman. And she spent the last two years of life traveling with him. So I met her and interviewed her. And the stories, you know Hawthorne, and there was such... It wasn't just that, I love the idea of trying to explain how he got to management theory and epistemology, how did he get to the science of variation? That's all good stuff. But I wanted the stories, and the stories were just glorious. As you enjoyed the book, right? 0:14:52.4 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. 0:14:53.3 John Willis: I think that was the fun part of not just explaining the sort of tech, if you will, but it was the, like the, oh my God, this... I've got to... I had three chapters like six years before I wrote the book. 0:15:06.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, here's chapter 15. And you say, "Being a student of Deming, I came across an untold firsthand account of a beautiful story from one of his acolytes, a woman named Doris Quinn," who you're talking about. 0:15:20.0 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah. 0:15:20.2 Andrew Stotz: And... But the... I also had marked a section related to talking about the final days, saying... 0:15:29.7 John Willis: Yeah. 0:15:29.8 Andrew Stotz: "Doris said he was a very, very driven man. He went nonstop. I remember one time we were in Kansas City and a reporter asked him, "Dr. Deming, when are you going to retire?" And the master said, "Why would I do that?" "Well, so you can do what you want." the reporter said." 0:15:45.7 John Willis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:15:46.4 Andrew Stotz: "Dr. Deming looked at him and said, "I am doing what I want." 0:15:50.2 John Willis: Yeah. You know what I love about her? There's a really good book from Amazon called 'Working Backwards'. And they tell us... The guys who wrote it were pretty high up early on in Amazon. They tell the story how if they traveled with Bezos and you didn't have a whole set of questions on the plane ride, you got in trouble. And so Doris Quinn tells that story, how she literally, she tells the story of how she traveled with him and he's like, "Doris, what other questions do you have for me?" And if she didn't have one, he'd get mad at her. He wouldn't talk to her. They'd have to wait a day because normally they'd go and have gin together. But if she didn't have questions... And some of it's in the book, some of it was in conversations had... He'd literally get mad at her and not talk to her for the rest of the day [laughter] because she didn't have any questions. You got to love that, right? 0:16:39.2 Andrew Stotz: And you also did a little follow-on about more stories that you didn't get in the book, I believe. 0:16:48.1 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah. 0:16:48.2 Andrew Stotz: Tell us about that. 0:16:50.1 John Willis: Well, so I wrote the DevOps Handbook, right? And that was a collaboration with four other authors and took us six years to write it. So my wife says, "What parts did you write?" I'm like, I don't know, man. There were a lot of parts that went in and out and moved around when you have four authors, and it was really a very techie book. So 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge' was really the first book where I literally... It was my book. And so I had written the book. In fact, my favorite story, and Doris Quinn is a great story, my favorite one was... It was basically called The Devil Wears Prada. And so, and Kevin... I don't think Kevin, his mother even knew this when we were talking that his grandmother literally was... I mean, I think they knew that she worked for the pre-BLS, she was a statistical mathematician and all that. 0:17:45.3 Andrew Stotz: Right. 0:17:45.4 John Willis: But after the war, she worked before she... I don't know if she met Deming, but she certainly wasn't married to him, Dr. Deming. She worked on the mail-order business was getting all these returns for women's sizing. And so whatever the pre-BLS was, Bureau of Labor Statistics, commissioned her to do a study. And she's the one who invented women's sizings. Because before, they didn't really have all the different measurements. So she ran a whole statistical study. And so today... So I use the whole story of the Anne Hathaway, the 14 is the new seven and all. So I start that off. Anyway, so I go to my publisher and my editor, who I love, she'd already knocked out a lot of stories, but this is the one where, "You're not taking this story from me. You're not... This one is not." And then she's so good, she'll be like, "John, let me ask you this. Does it fit the arc?" By this point, she understands System of Profound Knowledge, she's read my book quite a bit, and she says, "Does it fit the arc of System of Profound Knowledge?" "Uh, I hate you." And I took it out. And then she said, "Well, why don't you make a blog post out of it?" And I'm like, "Oh, no. I'm gonna make another book." And I took all the stories we cut out and I called them Profound Stories. And yeah, so... 0:19:06.6 Andrew Stotz: And for the listeners and viewers, you can get it on Kindle and then you can read the stories. And I think for the Deming community, that's one of the best parts about this whole thing, is just there's no great collection of stories that has an arc to it, as you said. So I enjoy that. I wanna also... It'd be interesting to understand how your thinking has progressed about Deming, because obviously you talk about this introduction phase where you got to know him, then you have this intense phase that you seem to have a knack for, then you write the book, you have all the excitement about that, but you're on to other things. 0:19:46.8 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 0:19:46.9 Andrew Stotz: And there are remnants of Deming that remain with you, but there's others that have fallen by the wayside. Maybe they're not as critical as you may have thought or... I'm just curious, how does the Deming thinking unfold in your life now? 0:19:59.7 John Willis: I... It's become sort of a fabric. So, and I wanna get back to that, but I do wanna say one thing... I'm so... Whenever somebody tells me the story that they met Deming, I have two reactions. One is the hair on my skin, my arms go up thinking, "Oh, I wish that was me." But then the other one is like, I'm sure he would have yelled at me and got mad at me. Because he would basically be like, "That's a stupid question, Mr. Willis." So I have this fantasy of which way it would go. But anyway. Yeah, the question around what do I think now? I think, so if you go back to the narrative, he... And it's hard not to be a sycophant of Deming, right? But I am a sycophant of Deming, but I try not to be. And... But even in the book, I tried not to be a sycophant, right? I went out of my way. But so when I say this, Deming was in my DNA before I even knew who he was, right? Like at Exxon, at GE Capital, the Six Sigma stuff. And again, I understand for people listening, oh, the Six Sigma went the wrong direction, but it originally was stemmed from a lot of his ideas. And so it was there. So it was sort of foundational, and he was the lighthouse to put it in... And then System of Profound Knowledge became the taxonomy for me for this stuff that was in my DNA. And so in one way, there is this thing where you move on to a new transformation. And we're in one right now. We've been in one. I've been in one for five years now, which is with the AI. And again, same thing for me is it's not about the AI, it's organizational behavior, organizational patterns, what is the sociotechnical science behind how do you do these things? 0:21:48.4 John Willis: But so you forget... I always say technology shifts are like fluorescence. People use the metaphor of like spring and winter, like AI winter, AI spring, and they've used it for other things than AI. And that's sort of like a rebirth. The fluorescence is good because it's like an energy. It's always rolling forward. It just gets a fluorescence bright glow periodically. And so what the problem with the metaphor works for me because the energy is there, and the energy are the patterns that are consistent. The fluorescence is the blinding effect. So back to like, did anything fall off the wayside with Deming? Yes, for a little bit. Because in 20... Basically I started playing with the early versions of GPT, the OpenAI models, back at version two, and that was like around 2020, right? Even before ChatGPT, right? So that whole experience before we started even thinking about what this was gonna look like at a large-scale bank was fluorescence. Like I'm not thinking anything about Deming from 2020 to 2023. In 2023, 2024, I start getting asked to come into some of my larger clients. And I'm following it too, and I'm sort of... I'm starting to become aware that this is becoming... In fact, I'm pretty sure in the grand scheme of things that don't matter in the grand scheme, I'm pretty sure I got first use on shadow AI, in an article I wrote in like 2022 or 2021, right? 0:23:27.2 John Willis: So I had already been recognizing there's a problem pattern here. We got the shadow IT with the cloud stuff, now the shadow AI, and I could see this steamrolling happening so... And then I started getting called in organizations, and then I still was the wayside of the Deming. Like, I didn't walk in going, "Hey, I'm gonna hit the punching bag with Deming." I was coming in trying to figure out what do I know about patterns with this fluorescence metaphor that are new and shiny, and what are the things that are old that have been relevant for the five decades and the six transform... At least six transformations I've been through that are common in everyone. And I started seeing that. And then what was funny, as I'd be writing and researching with AI, it knew so much about me that even as early as like 2024, I had loaded in my Deming book. In fact, one of the ways I learned AI is I took the 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge' and I turned it into an augmented general retrieval, or what they call RAG database. So I learned a lot about AI because I knew what my book was, and I could validate what was hallucinations. 0:24:36.3 John Willis: Anyway, but it knew enough about me. And then what it would periodically do, it would say, "Would you like Deming's version of this?" I'm like, "Yeah, I would love that." And then I... It started refreshing my memory of what the real context going back to my friend Ben Rockwood, it all goes back to Deming. And so now it's actually on the... It's more than ever, it's on the forefront because I'm being brought into major brand organizations that are seemingly failing on AI at the institutional, organizational level. And there's not a line of these people. In fact, most of them don't wanna talk to me because they don't wanna hear what I got to say, which is slow down. And I'm okay with the ones that don't wanna hear that because I don't really wanna work with them anyway. But now I'm seeing with absolute clarity two things. One is it all goes back to Deming, and all the problems that we're seeing can be classified in Profound Knowledge. 0:25:37.1 Andrew Stotz: Tell us more about that. Because for those people that... There's so many different components. When I got introduced to Deming, it was the 14 Points, 'Out of the Crisis'. And then I left America in 1992, so I wasn't there for 'New Economics'. And it... And I did other stuff for 20 years, 15 years, and then I found New Economics. It's like, "Wow, this is different from that." 0:25:53.1 John Willis: Yeah. 0:26:09.1 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, so between the deadly diseases, the 14 Points, the System of Profound Knowledge, there's so many parts to this. 0:26:15.9 John Willis: No, I've got... Yeah, I definitely got. And I'll tie it right back to the... In 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge', I tell the story of Knight Capital. And Knight Capital is an interesting... It was the second highest high-frequency trading, black box, latency arbitrage on the NYSE. A sysadmin made a configuration error. They lost $450 million and don't quote me on the exact numbers, but like 450 million in 45 minutes. They were arbitraged at billions of dollars. They were literally out of business with a cease and desist from the SEC. And I always tell people, like, that's the last thing you want if you have a business is a cease and desist from the SEC, right? And at that point, we would say things like the consequences are high on how you think about humans and technology. Well, guess what, sports fans? Knight Capital is a drop in the bucket of what we're gonna start seeing with AI. We are going to see these... And there's the Equifax breach, there's all the... We're gonna see non-survival. I mean, Knight Capital didn't survive. Equifax lost five billion market cap in a week and then recovered all of it, right? But I'm saying there's been some major brand recognition problems pre-AI. You're not going to be able to survive these with the power... [overlapping conversation] 0:27:41.7 Andrew Stotz: Abilities are gonna be shaken out. 0:27:43.6 John Willis: Yeah. I mean, and the brand damage. Brand damage by the escape routes of how... I mean, let me just step and I wanna go back to answer your question. But one of the things that people don't recognize right now is the machine that we have now has infinite knowledge at machine speed, and it's probabilistic. I mean, just add those three things up, that it has the ability of infinite knowledge, something no human could even close to. So it'll make decisions, it will escape, it will figure ways out, it will try a clever way to do something that probably no human would do that could be a disaster. Right? So the consequences are incredibly high. So then now, okay, let's really dust off: it all goes back to Deming's stuff. And so to your question, I think that I would love to see, like, you write a fantasy novel about how Deming came back to the future and was sitting here listening to what was going on, and he'd be screaming. He'd be telling everybody... And this is the thing I'm... I don't scream, I'm too old these days, but like, I literally cut off a CIO real quick in my conversation. I interview a CIO, they think they're interviewing me, I'm interviewing them. And if I'm like, "Yeah, no, you know what? This isn't right." "Well, what do you mean, John? We had..." "No, no, no." 0:29:09.1 John Willis: Because I can see right away that what the CIO or the leadership is... They think AI is a technology transformation. It's an organizational learning transformation. Deming would see this and scream this out loud. And that's the part of the blinding fluorescence that we're missing. We should know this by now, right? And so all these technology shifts, they think they're technology revolutions. They're really... I mean, they go back to the basics. What are the systems are they changing? Are we understanding what variation is? How do people learn? Are people not learning? Are people... A good example is, in every organization that I travel and this has been true for almost every technology transformation, but now it's glaring. I like to simplify. I say there's three groups. Let's take AI, right? Three groups in an organization. And usually, again, I don't care about really start-ups. I do care about startups from an investment standpoint, but I don't care about them from my day job. And so this is a bank or a large retail or insurance company or manufacturing. And so the CIO is like, "We have an AI strategy." And by the way, let me step one more thing, we learned a lot in the DevOps revolution, but DevOps was never a board-level conversation and it was never a Wall Street conversation. 0:30:37.1 John Willis: AI was immediately a board-level conversation. And so the pressure on a C-level, a CEO and a CIO, is "You must do AI yesterday.", right? And so now what's happening is the CIOs are literally doing knee-jerk reactions of like, "We're gonna have... We got 30,000 employees. If we can get all 30,000 employees using AI with a 3x productivity rating, we'll have..." you know, like, oh my God. And then they say, "Make it so." And I call this the strategy versus talent systems gap. And I don't mean how talented they are, I mean understanding what your talent system looks like. And to keep it simple, most talent systems look like this, they have one group that is passive-aggressive. They don't like change. They've been doing the same job forever. In this new world, they don't believe AI works, and they're passive-aggressive about it because they know they can't say they don't want it. When the CIO says, "We must do AI." they have to go, "Oh, we'll get to it next month. Next month. We'll get to it next month." And then you have the second group in the middle. They wanna do the right thing, but they're high enough... As we know, if you work for a bank and you're in a high enough position, if something really goes wrong, you're lucky if you get fired. You could get a fine for two times your salary, or you could actually go to jail. 0:32:02.3 Andrew Stotz: Right. 0:32:02.4 John Willis: Right? So that group is like, "I wanna use this, but you're not clear. There's no clarity from your... You guys all wanna do all this... [overlapping conversation] 0:32:11.7 Andrew Stotz: There's risks everywhere. 0:32:13.3 John Willis: But we've got the OCC and there's no clarity on FDIC and like, what does this mean?" "Well, I don't know." "Well, then I'm not touching this stuff. And do you have my back?" No. Right? And then the third group is the classic, do now, ask forgiveness later group. And so you could put this all back to driving out fear. Because what happens is you've got a strategy. What is that, it's number eight, I think. I think that's right, but it doesn't matter, right? It could be nine, it could be seven in the 14 Points. So the CIO has said, "This must happen." And then, again, board-level, horizontal, vertical pressures. And then everybody's... And they're not even understanding, do they have the capability? Do people wanna do it? Does the middle group even understand the clarity? And so the first thing that you should be doing is, in the clearest sense is driving out fear. So the do now, ask forgiveness laters are fear that if they don't do it, they won't be the leaders. The middle group is pretty clear what their fear is, you don't give them clarity of what they can and can't do. And the third group is fear of changing, losing their job, "AI is gonna replace me." So that's all a spectrum of understanding fear at the human level. And so maybe that is one of the first things you should address before you actually set a grand strategy. And we know Deming has a lot of thoughts about this, and then we break into sort of like... 0:33:48.6 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so let's stop at that. 0:33:50.1 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah. 0:33:51.6 Andrew Stotz: Fear. 0:33:53.0 John Willis: Yeah. 0:33:54.5 Andrew Stotz: That is something that remains in your belief system that is supported by Deming. Did you have that awareness when you were in... Let's just think about before you came across Deming. 0:34:08.1 John Willis: Oh, oh, yeah. 0:34:08.9 Andrew Stotz: Let's say you were doing all that stuff with Goldratt and all that but then when you came to Deming, did fear come up as, oh, wow, this is obvious, or did you learn that later and you see it now more? 0:34:21.3 John Willis: Andrew, this is why you're good at your job. This is good. This is a great question. No, really good... I love questions where I have to really deep think about it. So I think that I kind of always... It wasn't until DevOps that I understood what failing was about. So just before, like the nanosecond before I'm learning what Deming's saying about PDSA and failing and how the whole structure of learning is, I had this sense, but I don't think I was baptized yet on... And to me, I'll put fear and failure in the same bucket, right? Because it's a very... They are, in a lot of senses, the same thing. But certainly I can put them in the same bucket. So I had a sense, but it wasn't until we started seeing fast fail in DevOps. So DevOps, one of the things with DevOps was shorten the feedback loop. That was one of the core tenets of DevOps. Like, instead of waiting three, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks to deliver some software, or six months, and then by the time you deliver it, you're onto... The whole group that built it is now doing something else, let's just be able to turn a line of code into a delivery now. And that was revolutionary, right? And it's changed the universe. I mean, you don't have the big AI providers today if you didn't have DevOps. 0:35:46.4 John Willis: You would not have Airbnb and Uber and all that if you didn't have DevOps. Right? So that... And that sort of realized that this fast feedback loop is really an interesting thing, right? And the fact that it is telling you fail fast because then you learn fast and then you correct fast. And you... And so right around that time, I'm doing this research on Deming and starting to understand epistemology, the theory of knowledge. And so, again, I don't think... Like I said earlier, I don't think I had the... And vocabulary's too loose of a word. I don't think I had the structural understanding. Like, I didn't know what the word epistemology meant [laughter] before I started learning Deming. So I... So it was really... There were flavors of understanding what learning was, but it was DevOps that literally sort of put it to the front of why this works, how it does. And then I got... Again, a lot of careers is just being lucky, right? I just happened to sort of tap into this Deming thing through meeting Gene, learning about Goldratt, and then having this good friend tap me on the head and say it all goes back to Deming. And so, so and then that point, then it sort of opened up the whole world of epistemology. And it wasn't until I wrote the book where I started realizing it was pragmatism. 0:37:07.2 Andrew Stotz: And did that... Does that fail fast, does that method of accelerating the feedback loop that happened through DevOps as you've explained, does that remove a lot of fear from where people would be... 0:37:19.6 John Willis: Oh yeah. 0:37:19.7 Andrew Stotz: Much more... So that all of a sudden says, "No, no, no, it's okay to fail. We'll see that in a day, in two days, and then we're gonna iterate from that." So, okay, I understand how that kind of reframes fear of failure. But then you now talked also about the idea that it's a big element that you see, everything goes back to Deming. Nowadays you see this fear. How does it connect with how you see fear today in the workplace or in organizations? 0:37:50.6 John Willis: Well, again, I think it's the same thing. I mean, I hear people talk about now that one of the big discussions right now and I always look for the anti-pattern of where the discussions go, right? There's this big discussion about AI slop, right? In fact, last year it was we were all concerned about hallucinations. And I'm not dismissing that, but like, if you know how to run AI and infrastructure harnesses and build ground truth in an organization and you understand how your internal audit works, hallucinations are not, let me repeat this, are not a problem in 2026. They are not a problem. You could make them a problem by not understanding what I just said, but they are not a problem. So today's hallucination frenzy scare is what's called AI slop. And I guarantee you in 2027, it'll be something else. But... And I'm not saying it doesn't exist. It does exist, right? But so people are sort of calibrating, what is the cost... There's this counter-reaction to AI coding, not even assistance, people are now using pure agent coding, right? And the question that I think Deming would ask and maybe if there is some divine proxy of me speaking through Deming or Deming speaking through me is that the question that people are now looking at is, "Slop is so bad, we're creating so much code, should we ease back to the longer cycle for ideation and delivery and that process?" Because it's costing us a lot of money on the implementation side. 0:39:20.8 John Willis: The error, the time it takes to remediate the slop is starting to outweigh. Well, that's just bad organizational behavior and design. But okay, but so now I've had this argument with a major corporation, the CIO the other day, where I was saying you have to create this hourglass effect. For you got to create the funnel and then you got to have the control system that slows things down and speeds it up. And he was saying, "But yeah, the cost of the slop is all this stuff." And I said... What I said is, "Yeah, but what you're missing is..." and this is a company that did really well in DevOps, I worked with them years ago through the DevOps transformation and they understood the fast feedback and I had to re-explain the idea that, yeah, there's a cost to AI slop, but if you're not calibrating that with the cost of non-fast feedback and learning because your fear is this slop is gonna get us back or make you knee-jerk reactions, we're gonna see if we can slow down the ideation, maybe we move too fast. And again, I don't... There are scenarios where that is absolutely true, but that is, first understanding your problem. And your problem isn't slow down the ideation process. Oh, we should spend more time ideating because what does that do? It goes back to the old school where we're spending way too much time in the ideation. By the time it actually gets implemented, the feedback loop of learning is way too long. So I think you're better off at least measuring... And this is where variation comes into play. Measuring if I decrease the ideation time, do I get more value from the fast feedback because I can understand the problem, I can fix it faster? And again, that was one of the core tenets of DevOps. But I find people now pushing back because they're scared of AI slop and it's costing more remediation time. So again, I think these are multiple ways of thinking about how fear... [overlapping conversation] 0:41:26.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, so besides... 0:41:27.1 John Willis: The fear... And I was just gonna say one... Sorry to cut you off. 0:41:29.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, go ahead. 0:41:31.0 John Willis: But one of the biggest problems I've seen over the years is I think the knee-jerk reaction is the symptom of fear. Right? And so I've seen this over and over where a bank gets pawned and so they put out a req for a hundred IT sec professionals in a city where you can best case hire 10 one year. Right? So again, I think that there's that combinatorial fear, knee-jerk reaction. 0:42:00.5 Andrew Stotz: If you were to pick one other area of Deming that really stands the test of time for you, as opposed to a Deming disciple, let's say someone that's trying to implement everything that he's talking about and they're trying to do it in their little manufacturing company or their service business, which I interview those guys. 0:42:09.1 John Willis: Yeah, yeah. 0:42:17.6 Andrew Stotz: But in your case, in some ways it's like you swam through a Deming period of time, absorbed everything and now you're on to other stuff. I'm just kind of interested about what else is lasting? 0:42:35.2 John Willis: Yeah, no... 0:42:35.3 Andrew Stotz: Just one thing. 0:42:35.6 John Willis: And I think maybe, Andrew, maybe part of a problem of the institutionalized Deming conversations is it doesn't always have to have the word Deming in it. In other words, I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying that I see it more as it's in my DNA. It's part of how I look at things. And so I'll give you a great example. This is pure Deming, but I wouldn't think of it as, "Oh, let me explain this way I want you to evolve in AI because Deming would say..." I don't start that way. But I will tell you that when I came up with this idea and it's called an ideation, AI ideation hackathon. Right? Because everybody's running tech hackathons, AI hackathons. And that's a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. And there's technical debt, you're just making a lot of mistakes there. 0:43:01.7 Andrew Stotz: Right. 0:43:27.8 John Willis: It's a knee-jerk reaction. So the ideation hackathon is sort of something unique. I was doing some consulting for the CMO of a large database company, but got into AI and I helped them, it's called MongoDB, I don't do any work for them anymore but I helped them launch their AI solution. And I did a lot of technical hackathons and I just kept seeing how all the chaos of these technical hackathons, people would build stuff, it would just wind up in GitHub repositories, it would go nowhere. And I finally said, "Why don't we just strip out the technology and focus on the ideation process?" Right? And so that becomes a pure implementation of PDSA. Right? Because in a PDSA, if I was gonna sort of explain it in a Deming way, a hackathon would be a terrible way to implement a PDSA. "So let's build the Sistine Chapel and then let's figure out, let's study the results." Or why don't we start small as an organization? This is why I tell my first... Right now, CIO asks me, "Okay, John..." and usually the conversation ends at this, "What would be your 30-day, 90-day plan, 180-day plan?" 0:44:41.0 John Willis: I'm like, "Not to have one." Yeah, but then I sort of, I talk about two ways to deal with where they're at. And I say that one is something I've done over years, was a qualitative. I do these large where I interview 300, 400 people and I use true qualitative analysis approach to interviewing people, build categories, and structurally design what the place looks like. Right? And that's very... But it's very expensive and it takes... Expensive not in the money, but the time. The new sort of one that CIOs, at least a small percentage of bite onto is, "Why don't we run some ideation hackathons?" And here's the value, you're not writing any code. You're letting people focus on learning how to ideate. Because remember I said earlier, AI is not a technology transformation, it's an organizational learning change. So let's focus on the organizational learning structures without giving any of the technology or the code. But do the hackathon, and the readouts are what you would have built minus the specific tools. And it's glorious because you actually you get to see all the stuff without expending tokens. You don't build the risks. Because anybody who tells you they can sandbox experiments in AI is lying, absolute lying. If anybody's followed the recent Open AI Hugging Face one, it was the most insane escape. 0:46:10.9 John Willis: So, and then the other idea is I don't want 30 of my executive administrators all picking their own tools and all trying to solve all their C-level bosses' problems. And by the way, there's the whole security exposure is, I've done ideation hackathons where an EA says, "I got this idea. I wanna take my P&L or my profit or whatever of some proprietary information on a spreadsheet and throw it into Claude and have Claude..." I'm like, "Yeah, no, no, no, no. Let me explain how that goes into Claude." It literally, it traverses through a bunch of internal structures that leave stuff laying around. And by the way, even though they say they don't train on your data, they have your data. Like, you don't want that data in there. So the ideation hackathon, I think, is a really good... And so I think the main point to that is, although I don't walk in the door and I think one of the... Again, your listeners, I'm like attacking your listeners basically but I think one of our problems is, we try to build our, some people try to build their skill set around like, "I'm a Deming expert. I'm gonna teach you how to do Deming and everything's gonna be great because of Deming." as opposed to let's just make the water Deming, the water, the fabric of what we do. And every once in a while it does make sense to be able to say, "Hey, you know that..." And I won't go back and say I won't lead and say, "Well, Deming tells us..." because I'm not gonna get the gig if I just go too much on Deming anyway. But I will say at some point, I'll say, "Here's the deal. We've got over 100 years of management knowledge on how to do the right things. Let's pay attention to those things." Right? And that's the Deming, that's the Shewhart, that's the Ackoff, it's the Ashby, it's the... We can go down the list, right? Senge. 0:48:06.2 Andrew Stotz: One of the things I was thinking about a while ago was, when Dr. Deming wrote 'Out of the Crisis', he was telling us that we were in a crisis and that we needed to think a new level of thinking. Did it work? Are we out of the crisis? Did people take on board what he taught? Where are we now? That was 1986. 0:48:30.7 John Willis: Yeah, I know, I know. 0:48:31.7 Andrew Stotz: On the one side you can say America's brought incredible amount of innovation and businesses are huge and other countries and other regions struggle to catch up with America. So on the one hand, you could say materially it appears like we're there. But on the other hand, when you look at the way things are managed, you could argue, yeah, not much has changed. 0:48:56.7 John Willis: It's a tough one. It's a tough, I mean, let's just face it, large-scale organizations of high consequences are so full of bureaucracy. Humans interacting at that scale is probably the hardest organizational problem there is, right? You can study anthropology for the next 40 or 50 years and still not have a good clue of how to. And people do, right? So, yeah, it's hard. And why things work, why they go through the... I mean, I talk about the Peterson at Ford, right? And then Ford, turns out there were a lot of other... There are these other conflicting things that happen, industry changes, financial models change. Why did Ford have this incredible success when Peterson called Deming? And then some number of years later, they're back to the old ways, right? We got General Motors, we got all that. I will say this, and I hadn't really thought about this until you asked the question. One of the things I did focus pretty heavy on is Deming's influence on Toyota. And now there's a lot of debate and this is where people get pretty mean with me. I mean, Dr. Spear, I love Dr. Spear. He wrote 'High Velocity Edge' and he's a genius. He was MIT Sloan. And every time I'd see him, "Well, you know, John, Deming and that Six Sigma stuff never worked." And I'm like, "Alright, first off, he didn't do Six Sigma. Second off..." 0:50:21.6 John Willis: And then he told me one time, he said that Deming had no influence on Toyota. I'm like, "Yeah, that's just not blatantly untrue. I'm sorry, you're a PhD genius, I'm not. You're wrong." And so I've been hitting him... Over the years, I hit him with a lot of evidence of Deming's influence on Toyota. And it even goes back to Denco Densco and some of the same. But here's the thing, right? I... There's a woman called Katie Anderson. She's got a book, Learning to... 'Leading to Learn, Learning to Lead', where she met a guy who spent four decades at Toyota, this Dr. Yoshino, and she interviewed and wrote a book about his career. She runs a Japan study trip. I did a Japan study trip a couple of years ago and I got to meet him. And I... He hired at Toyota in 1966. He worked alongside Ohno, Shingo. He was there. He was a junior guy, but he was the guy they were yelling at, "Do this, do that, do this." right? So he was there. 0:51:23.9 John Willis: I told him, I said, "There are people that believe in the US that Deming had no influence on Toyota." He could not believe that that question even could come up. And he told me, he said, "John...", he doesn't really speak good English, we had a translator, he said, "Let me tell you what Deming taught us. He taught us to understand data." And at first I didn't grok that, but then I started thinking about variation. And although there's a lot of people that say that that didn't carry through too, but if I look at what Agile, Lean, and ultimately become DevOps, I in that book trace it pretty strongly back to Deming's influence on Toyota. And you can't deny Lean is not the core of Agile Lean, today's Lean, right? Toyota Production Systems, to be clear. So then I would say that the lasting impact of Deming is not what happened in the '80s when the Americans started understanding what he did, because maybe that translation, maybe it had to be... I asked Doris Quinn this and she said, "Oh, that's interesting." Because I said this, I said, "Could it be that Japan influenced Deming as much as he influenced Japan?" And I think it did. And I think the point was they were... 0:52:45.6 Andrew Stotz: It was a love affair. 0:52:46.3 John Willis: And yeah, and they were more malleable to his messaging. 0:52:50.3 Andrew Stotz: Well, they were more malleable because of their condition, but they also were more susceptible because of the structure of the society. 0:53:01.6 John Willis: Exactly. Yeah, but even the sort of community structure. I'll tell you another quick story on that study trip where we visited an elementary school. And in the elementary school, they had no janitors. Every sort of public school is like this, right? They have no janitors. And the kids, they literally clean. At about 2 o'clock, a bell goes off and some kids rotate and they do the bathrooms, some people... Imagine in an American school, some ritzy parents, "My son cleaned the bathroom?" It'd be on CNN. And they rotated serving food. 0:53:20.7 Andrew Stotz: Child slave labor. 0:53:39.7 John Willis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we got to interview a couple of them and they understood Kaizen and all. So me, I start thinking about like, oh my God, this is our... Western culture is so broken because we basically teach everything that's antithetical to that. They get out of college and then maybe they get lucky and get into an Agile, Lean-like structure and we have to break it all down, where their kids come out completely in that sort of community. And we went to a lot of tier-one distributors. You could see the understanding of community and the power of it. And so what I'm saying is, what Deming was giving them saturated to have such an impact on TPS, and it's unquestionable the impact TPS has had on Lean and Agile and DevOps. And if you follow my thread, Lean, Agile, and DevOps have certainly impacted... You don't have places like Google for good or bad, Facebook for good or bad, Uber, because they could never scale... 0:54:40.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. 0:54:40.1 John Willis: Without that. So again, I think, I really hadn't thought about this until you asked the question, is I think actually the Deming 1980s renaissance of Deming was a... Seemed like a bubble in retrospect, unfortunately. But actually indirectly, he's had more... And there's a good part of the book that tries to cover that. I do the "What would Deming do?" after he died, if he was alive and all the stuff that happened there. 0:55:06.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I mean, definitely DevOps. And then Eric... What was his... The Lean Startup one? 0:55:14.0 John Willis: Eric Ries. Yeah, Eric Ries. Yeah. 0:55:17.3 Andrew Stotz: That also... Those two really probably did more to promote PDSA and that aspect. 0:55:23.4 John Willis: Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah, scientific method. There is a copy, and I cannot find it anywhere, there is a copy of Eric, one of Eric Ries' Lean Startup books that does attribute to Deming, and I cannot find it. 0:55:36.5 Andrew Stotz: It does or does not? 0:55:38.7 John Willis: Does. Does. He's got this thing about the 75th birthday or something. Do you have it? Because I can't find the copy, at some point I read a copy where he does a tribute to Deming. 0:55:50.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I think there's some... 0:55:53.0 John Willis: And then... 0:55:53.1 Andrew Stotz: I have the book and I think there is some reference in the book. 0:55:57.5 John Willis: Yeah, there was one, was like... It was like... I don't know if it was the 70th year, 75th year, and he... So yeah, no, I mean that directly. Lean Startup is literally... Yeah, so yeah. 0:56:10.9 Andrew Stotz: And if we think about people that are listening to this podcast, the people that I really want to listen to this podcast and I really want to get something out of the podcast is people that just don't know Deming. They've never heard of it, but they've stumbled upon it. One of the Deming community said, "Hey, you should listen to this podcast because you'll learn about Deming." And maybe they listen to a couple of episodes and it's a bit overwhelming when they hear someone talking about a lot of detail about this or that. Maybe they bought 'Out of the Crisis' and they got a chapter or two into it and they thought, yeah, that's also a bit overwhelming. What would be your message to that person who's listening right now to say, here's the reason why you shouldn't abandon it because of XYZ or whatever that message is that you've got about what they need to know about Deming? 0:57:01.4 John Willis: Yeah. I mean, I will say this, learning is hard. Change is hard, right? I mean, it sounds cliché, but, yeah, I think all of us who came into Deming, I didn't... When I read, we talked about this, I read 'Out of the Crisis', I was like, I don't know what's going on here. One of the worst things I can advise you to, I hate to say this, and this is probably anti-Deming Institute, is start off by reading his two books. You're better off going out to podcasts like this or other stories. I found that healthcare was chock-full of great stories, particularly about Profound Knowledge, of great examples. And then I went back and read the book and then like, oh my God, this is, now I get it, right? So I think a lot of things that we sort of encounter, a lot of them have... The things that are really valuable have this sort of facing counter-intuitiveness nature to them, and you have to sort of work at that. 0:57:55.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. 0:57:56.9 John Willis: And so Deming is hard. I mean, you... If you wanna understand Deming, I would say most people are not gonna get it on the snap. And what I would say to them is, it's worth figuring out what are the parts that he says and he did and his philosophy that could become part of your DNA, 'cause that I don't think anybody disagrees on. And then... And one other sort of short story. And I love Bill Bellows and I would say listen to all his podcasts. He's an amazing guy and just incredibly insightful on a lot of, I didn't really understand Taguchi, but so I did some podcasts with him. But I remember, and I'm not calling anybody out, but he runs the In2:InThinking Group and I've been to a couple of those. And I remember one time we were sitting there and we were having a conversation around sort of a roundtable and somebody asked, as I was talking about a company, they said, "Are they a Deming company?" I'm like, yeah. And I couldn't actually get through the room that, no. Nobody's a Deming company. Like, what is a Deming company? That's the wrong question. So again, back to, you got to be careful about how you think about Deming as using his philosophy to help organizations, because the more you focus on that it is a "Deming philosophy" as opposed to these are the right ways to think about the problems, you fall into this trap of maybe getting lost. Well, that Deming thing worked for about a year or two years and now it doesn't work. Well, if you don't call it a Deming thing, then what were the things that stuck and what are the things that didn't? 0:59:42.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. I just wanna remind the listeners and the viewers out there, just go to Amazon and find 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge'. For me, I listened to it as an Audible book, which was fun because I enjoyed the stories and it just reminded me to go back and listen again. And also the additional stories, which I actually hadn't bought until, I had been wanting to buy it, but I didn't. So while you were talking, I got that on Kindle. So that's gonna be my fun. 1:00:13.9 John Willis: Those are great stories. There's a story about Gene Cernan. He was the last guy to land, be on the moon. And as you go through the book, it's really interesting. I did like seven or eight... So I was in no rush to publish the Deming book. I was in a rush to do the AI book. So I would literally get to the third rev, the fourth rev, and every time I'd have more new friends point things out. And by the time I got to like eight revs and I'm like, okay, it's probably time to put this book out. But what happens is as you go with the editor, they just start carving things down. And a good editor makes the strong point, like my 'Devil Wears Prada'. But again, there were so many great stories, like the Gene Cernan one is the last guy to be on the moon, but there was a story about Tracy's Rock and it's just a fabulous story, but it didn't have any place in Deming's Journey of Profound Knowledge. It was just an add-on that sort of took you off course. But now, in a standalone book, it's a great story. So there's a ton of those. The guy who created Piggly Wiggly was this genius. Like, again, it didn't really fit in there. But as a standalone story and I even do a little bit of, like, this would have been in chapter 15, so if you read both, you get a sense. And the worst thing I can tell you, though, is I had one person, I was at a conference I was laying the book, the Profound Stories book was laying around, and I guess I came back, he was at a booth, and he read it, and he goes, "John, can I talk to you about your book?" I'm like, "What?" He goes, "I don't know." I'm like, "Oh, dude, you can't read that book without reading 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge'. It would be a terrible book if you didn't know what the premise was for where it came from." So, yeah. 1:01:59.7 Andrew Stotz: So in wrapping up, what would you like to leave the audience with from this discussion and from your journey into the teachings of Dr. Deming? 1:02:11.3 John Willis: Yeah, I think you have to start thinking about... And again, I know it sounds like I'm trying to sell the book and you're doing a better job than I am anyway but the last third of 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge' was what would Deming do had he survived another 20 years? Right? And probably nothing because he was pretty old and not healthy. But the... So, I mean, question then is, as we think about organizational behavior, what are the core things? And I think Profound Knowledge is a great way. I, again I... Again, I don't walk in and say, "Oh, we're gonna... CIO, we're gonna solve this problem by applying the four elements of Profound Knowledge." That's not how I start that conversation. But I'm certainly thinking about systems thinking because that's first and forefront. Like, how are you thinking about... Like one company recently I was with, they got... Some of the big AI providers are giving well-branded companies all-you-can-eat AI. Like OpenAI is saying, "Hey, you know..." That's a terrible idea, terrible, terrible. Because now you're just building technical debt up the gazoo, right? So again, to be able to see the forest behind the trees, what's the systems thinking effect of that? How are you learning? What's the epistemology, the theory of knowledge behind that? 1:03:39.2 John Willis: Are you applying... In the book, I tried to codify my understanding of, like, the theory of knowledge is, how do we know what we think we know? The variation is, how can we see what we think we know? The psychology is, what are the... Let's take a second and what are the blind spots? And then I think of it as a feedback loop is, are we continually like if you listen to Bill Bellows, he does a great job of sort of explaining systems thinking through the sort of vehicle of Taguchi or Ackoff but are we just continually looping through that process as, "Let's take a bigger chunk, let's take a bigger chunk, let's take a bigger chunk"? So Profound Knowledge, not so much that you have to walk in and be an expert on 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge', or more specifically, The System of Profound Knowledge. The idea is, can you use those... And the reason I fell in with 'The System of Profound Knowledge', why that was what hit my core, because I will say, out of my five decades of doing all this crazy stuff in technology, I can't think... I mean, there's a lot of cool frameworks that I use as auxiliary, and frameworks I'm using loosely but The System of Profound Knowledge is the one framework that to me beats all other frameworks because it covers epistemology, it covers understanding statistical analysis or analytical statistics. Right? Which is very important. It brings in the biases, the... All the sort of things about how people think, blind spots, and then it throws together the wrapper of appreciation of a system, so... 1:05:23.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, John, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, now you see your picture on the cover. [laughter] 1:05:32.2 John Willis: There we go, man. 1:05:33.7 Andrew Stotz: I wanna thank you. It's a great discussion and it's long overdue. 1:05:37.7 John Willis: Sure. 1:05:37.9 Andrew Stotz: And for listeners, remember to go to deming.org and jump into DemingNext to continue your journey. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, which is, "People are entitled to joy in work." 1:05:42.4 John Willis: I love that you end with that.
At 19, this week’s Money Diarist bought her first home. It was a very unglamorous $135,000 unit that she lovingly describes as looking like a retirement village. But while her friends were buying cars and spending their money elsewhere, she and her then-boyfriend decided property was the priority. And it changed what came next. They travelled. Lived overseas. Came home. Bought their family home. Went through IVF. Had their beautiful son. Survived a redundancy. Spent years with her husband working away while she essentially solo parented. And through all of it, they kept doing something remarkably unsexy but incredibly effective: living below their means. No flashy cars. No keeping up with the Joneses. No consumer debt. Then, at 41, her husband looked at their offset account and realised something. They didn’t owe anything on their mortgage anymore. Now they’re 42, completely debt-free and earning around $265,000 as a household. She owns part of the marketing agency she works in, they travel regularly and they finally have serious capacity to build wealth. There’s just one tiny problem. They’re terrified of getting it wrong. They’ve spent more than two decades becoming exceptionally good savers. Now they need to work out how to become investors. And I think this is the part of being “good with money” we don’t talk about enough. Because eventually, saving can only take you so far. SORT YOUR INSURANCE: A big thank you to our partner Skye Wealth for bringing this episode to life. If you're ready to get your insurances sorted, you can learn more about them here.We have a long standing referral partnership with Skye Wealth and only ever partner with people we trust. CHECK OUT THE SOTM INVESTING HUB: Full of our best investing freebies, resources, courses and podcast episodes here. INVESTING FOR BEGINNERS: All our best beginner's investing podcast episodes in one place here.Ready to binge more relatable, inspiring, and downright juicy money stories? Check out our ultimate Money Diaries playlist. Listen now Join our Facebook Group AKA the ultimate support network for money advice and inspiration. Ask questions, share tips, and celebrate your wins with a like-minded crew of 300,000+. And follow us on Instagram for Q&As, bite-sized tips, daily money inspo... and relatable money memes that just get you. Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708, AFSL - 4451289See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
He was spending the day alone at a friend's old duplex when something crashed into the cats' food dish behind him.The problem was, both cats were asleep in the next room.Later, he began hearing what sounded like two people whispering in the corner of the living room. When he paused the television, the voices continued—and both cats were staring toward the exact same spot.Then came the heavy footsteps. Someone seemed to be climbing the stairs toward the apartment, getting closer and closer to the door. He opened it just as the footsteps stopped.No one was there. And he never heard anyone walk back down.#RealGhostStoriesOnline #GhostStories #HauntedDuplex #ParanormalExperience #UnexplainedFootsteps #GhostlyVoices #CatsAndGhosts #HauntedApartment #UnexplainedActivity #TrueGhostSto Love real ghost stories? Want even more?Don't just listen—join us on YouTube and be part of the largest community of real paranormal encounters anywhere. Subscribe now and never miss a chilling new story:
Strong businesses do not become healthy by accident. They are built through trust, clear leadership, accountability, and a willingness to face problems together. Will Watrous joins me to explore what makes leadership teams work and why so many companies struggle even when good people are involved. Will shares how his own entrepreneurial journey led him from marketing into helping leadership teams use the Entrepreneurial Operating System, or EOS, to create greater vision, traction, and team health. We discuss vulnerability-based trust, productive conflict, accountability, business complexity, data-driven decisions, and why leaders must take responsibility for both what works and what does not. Will also explains why simplicity matters as companies grow, how weekly meetings can keep teams focused, and why leaders need quiet thinking time to gain clarity. You will find practical leadership lessons here for building stronger teams, making better decisions, and creating a healthier business. Highlights: 05:22 How helping one business owner launched Will's entrepreneurial journey. 11:42 Why strong leadership creates accountability. 15:29 How trust becomes the foundation of healthy teams. 26:20 Why productive conflict leads to better decisions. 40:44 How leaders can reduce complexity as a business grows. 54:04 Why clarity breaks help leaders think and lead better. . About the Guest: Will Watrous is a business owner, EOS Implementer, and advisor to growth-minded leaders in the Tulsa and Broken Arrow area. He works primarily with founders and leadership teams of companies with 10 to 250 employees who want more clarity, discipline, and traction in their organizations. His work centers on helping leaders simplify complexity, make better decisions, and consistently execute on what matters most. As a Certified EOS Implementer, Will guides leadership teams through the Entrepreneurial Operating System, focusing on vision, accountability, data, and healthy team dynamics. He is known for being practical, direct, and grounded in real-world business experience. Clients value his ability to ask hard questions, create focus, and turn strategy into clear priorities that actually get done. Beyond EOS, Will owns and advises multiple businesses, including a marketing company and commercial real estate investments. This firsthand ownership experience shapes how he works with clients. He understands cash flow, hiring decisions, sales challenges, and the pressure leaders face when growth creates complexity. His approach blends structured systems with sound judgment and financial awareness. Will is deeply interested in finance, long-term wealth building, and disciplined execution, both personally and professionally. He values tools, scorecards, and measurable outcomes, but believes strong businesses are ultimately built by healthy, aligned leaders. His Christian worldview influences how he thinks about stewardship, integrity, and responsibility. He lives in the Tulsa area with his wife Jenny and their two children, Eli and Ellie. Outside of work, Will enjoys fitness, hiking, travel, learning, and time with his family. He is driven by helping leaders build organizations that are not only successful, but sustainable and well-run for the long term. Ways to connect with Will**:** LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willwatrous/ Website: https://implementer.eosworldwide.com/will-watrous/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, greetings, everyone, wherever you may be today, I am your host Mike Hingson, and you are listening and/or watching Unstoppable Mindset. Our guest today is Will Watrous, and Will has a I think a lot of interesting things to talk with us about regarding organizations, team building, teamwork, and other such things, and I'm not going to give it away because it's his job to really talk about that, which is a lot more fun. Although I will say that he and I share a like of a particular book on teamwork, which we'll talk about, I'm sure, as we go forward. But anyway, Will, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad you're here. Will Watrous 01:40 Thank you, Mike. What a pleasure to be on your podcast today. Michael Hingson 01:43 Well, well, I've been looking forward to it for a while, so we're we're glad we're doing it, and we'll we'll take about an hour, and then you can go off to dinner unless you've already had dinner. Speaker 1 01:53 Sounds like a plan. Michael Hingson 01:56 Yeah, Will is in Oklahoma, so I think he's having warmer temperatures today than we are. Anyway, so let's let's go ahead and move forward. Why don't you tell us kind of maybe a little bit about the early will growing up and all that? Speaker 1 02:10 Sure. So I grew up in a little coastal town, Mystic, Connecticut, which is on the shore, northeastern Connecticut. Michael Hingson 02:19 Did you ever have pizza there? I had to ask. Speaker 1 02:21 I did. I did have Mystic Pizza before it was made famous by Julia Roberts' right movie, and that was that was my hometown. Yeah. So the Mystic Drawbridge there, and the old Mystic Village, or the Mystic Seaport. It's a very touristy, but also a great place to grow up. Yeah, on the water, and yeah, the youngest of six kids, five boys, one girl, but don't feel sorry for her because she is probably could still beat me up. She's a strong, strong woman, and yes, pretty, pretty average in in many ways, childhood graduated from high school and went off to college here in Oklahoma. Spent about six years out here going to school, and then went back to the East Coast. This time to Washington D.C. area. I was working in a large nonprofit organization just outside the Beltway, and then wound up going to Boston. Taught at a school in Brookline, Massachusetts, just outside of Boston. And then my wife decided she wanted to go to college out here in Oklahoma, so we moved back out here in around around 2010, and I started a business, and that started my entrepreneurial journey, which was very intensive. Let's say learned a lot, a lot of it the hard way, and really developed an affinity, appreciation for business, for entrepreneurship, for ultimately serving people, which is what most businesses should be designed to do. And through all of that, took some really powerful principles, insights, truths away, and now have the privilege of helping a lot of other business leadership teams run stronger, better, healthier companies. Michael Hingson 04:28 What got you to go to college in Oklahoma? Coming from Mystic, Speaker 1 04:33 well, being the youngest of six, two of my brothers had come to school out here, and so I was following in their footsteps. Michael Hingson 04:41 Where did you go to school? Speaker 1 04:43 So I went to Oral Oral Roberts University. Yep, and I went to a college called Raymo Bible Training College, which is a Christian two-year Christian school out here. Michael Hingson 04:56 And eventually, you came back. And why did your wife want to come? And go to college in Oklahoma, kind of same concepts. Speaker 1 05:03 Yeah, she wanted just so she wanted to go to the Rayma Bible Training College to get a foundation in her faith, and just you know early on in in life wanted to lay that framework, that groundwork, so that she she felt for the rest of her life, and she had met a lot of other graduates from that particular school, which is an amazing school, and they had all just shared how influential, how impactful the school was for them. And mind you, it's not just about head knowledge, you know, not just information. It's about ultimately knowing God better, and so which tends to serve you well in every every area of life. So she was hungry for that. So we decided to move out here. And I, the nature of my work at the time was such that I could work remotely, and so we moved here. And she went to school, graduated, and we stayed and raised a family. Michael Hingson 06:01 So, what what kind of business did you start when you started your business? You said in 2010. Speaker 1 06:09 Yes, in 2010, and so I had been serving in a marketing capacity, doing marketing management for the organization in the D.C. area, and learned a lot simply by doing. Don't have my my college education. My degree is in music performance, actually, so didn't serve me very well as far as marketing is concerned. So I learned a lot by doing, and when I moved out here, I knew someone who had an auto repair shop, and he, through a series of events, had to rename his rebrand his shop completely. the the the I went to his website, I think one day, and it said under construction, and I thought that's weird. I know he has he's been in business, he has a website, so I send him an email, and he emailed me back and said he just asked inquiring is everything going all right? He replied and said I need help right now because we're in the situation where I need to redo everything. So I at the time was not a technician when it came to marketing. I was more of just a manager strategist type. So for whatever reason, I decided that I could build him a website. I just wanted to help, so I didn't charge him anything, and literally went online, and this is many, many years ago. Before there was all of the resources available to us now, and I Googled how do you build a website, and I prayed, and I just went through this very excruciating process of coding and understanding how it all worked. Wound up building him a website, learned a lot along the way about search engine optimization, about digital advertising, and then other you know forms of online advertising. And his he's a great businessman. He does good work, and he has a good reputation. He knows lots of people. His business grew to the degree that he would have some other business owners come to him and say, "Man, what are you doing? Because you you guys are just crushing it. And he's a really gracious guy. He would tell these other business owners, "Well, I have this guy named Will, and sometimes I have to call Will and tell him to tone it down a little bit because I'm too busy. Well, these other business owners demanded my phone number from him because they wanted you know to grow their businesses. So I started getting phone calls from other business owners asking if I would do for them what I was doing for this man, and that started. So I never really woke up one day saying I'd love to start a marketing agency. I just was trying to help someone who needed Michael Hingson 09:00 it, Speaker 1 09:01 and it wound up turning into a business. So then I hired someone, and they started helping me. And then hired some more and grew it and grew it until about four years ago. I stepped away, and there's more to that story as well as as to how I was able to step away. I still own that company passively now. It's a it's a great multi-million-dollar, very profitable, growing company, very healthy company. But now my passion and focus is helping entrepreneurs create businesses that give them what they want from their business that are more aligned, more healthy, and stronger-not just for the business owner and the entrepreneur, but for the whole for the whole company, for everyone involved in that organization. Michael Hingson 09:48 So, you're more involved now in helping people start businesses, or are you still dealing with businesses that exist and you're helping to to kind of improve them? Speaker 1 10:00 Businesses that are already existing. So typically, my my the clients that I work with now are are two to 50 million in annual revenue, 10 to 250 employees. They're growth oriented. They're willing to be open and honest with one another and with themselves, and they're more afraid of the status quo than they are of change. They really are trying to get somewhere, but feel stuck, feel frustrated, feel like the things that have they've been trying to to do to make the business better just aren't gaining traction like they need. Michael Hingson 10:34 Well, how does that differ from what you were doing before? Speaker 1 10:37 Ah, well, so before the marketing agency was really focused on lead generation, increasing their revenue, their sales. Now, what I do is work with leadership teams. I use the EOS model, which is the entrepreneurial operating system, which is a very specific process and set of tools that I teach the leadership team of the organization, so typically that's the three to seven people at the top of the company making the important decisions, and I help them do three things. I call them vision, traction, and healthy. So vision means first getting the leaders 100% on the same page with where is this company going and how do we plan to get there. Traction from the standpoint of helping your leaders to become much more disciplined and accountable, and executing really well to achieve every part of your vision, and then healthy meaning helping the leaders to become a more healthy, functional, cohesive leadership team. Because the truth is that most leaders don't function well as a team, and what I found is, as goes the leaders, so go the rest of the organization. So what we do is we get to the point where everyone in the company is all crystal clear, fully aligned with the vision and plan. They're gaining consistent traction wherever you look in the company, people are executing on that vision together, and they're doing it as a group of people who are who enjoy the work that they do and and enjoy the people that they're around. Michael Hingson 12:13 Okay, what do you think is the problem that leaders and companies most often misdiagnosed in their organizations that create the problems that you have to come in and deal with. Speaker 1 12:30 I would say one of the most common is accountability. It's a it's it's a common hot button frustration of many business leaders, and the misdiagnosis, as you said, is that accountability is actually a byproduct. It is, it's a formula. Actually, the formula is this: L plus M equals A. So the L stands for leadership, plus M stands for management, equals A stands for accountability. So leader accountability is the output, and so rather than trying to make your people be accountable, which you can't really do. What you can do is be a great leader and be a great manager, and the result will be you'll create an environment where accountable people thrive. And so, within EOS, we teach five leadership abilities and five management abilities, or not really ability. They're more like practices, leadership practices, and and management practices. You just do those things well, and and the accountability that you so desire will show up in the organization. Michael Hingson 13:52 Yeah, I think a lot of people don't really understand what accountability is, and and that doesn't help the process, and yeah, you know exactly what I mean, and and that that tends to really make a lot of challenges for people because they they resent rather than recognizing that people who truly understand accountability are are trying to do something to help build the team, help the team work well, and and are looking out for the whole company, but just so many people don't understand that, do they? Speaker 1 14:27 No, and and part of the reason it's interesting. All these EOS tools work together, but another tool that we use a lot is the something we call the accountability chart. The accountability chart is a visual illustration of the structure of the organization, meaning who is responsible for what. So we've got the leadership team, but then every single person in the organization should have a box, a seat on the bus, and within. Box or in that seat, there's five major roles that they really need to own. What I like to say it this way: If the company could speak, why would it say this function exists? Why is this seat in the organization? And many companies have not clearly defined what success looks like for an employee. What are their five major accountabilities or roles within the organization? And so, how can you hold someone accountable to something that's not been clearly communicated from the get go? If they don't really understand what success looks like and what we need them to be doing and focusing and being great at, then it's it's really hard to to hold them accountable. Michael Hingson 15:46 Yeah, and they they just miss it. Well, going back to something I mentioned at the beginning, you and I are both great fans of the book The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. Which which function or dysfunction do you? I can imagine what this might be, but which dysfunction do you most often encounter, and do we find most often with companies and people? Speaker 1 16:14 Yeah, I'll have to start at the bottom of the pyramid because it's right. It's it's it's a it's linear in a way, and and in that one builds upon the other. So the bottom tier of the pyramid is vulnerability based trust. So trust, and that, as Patrick describes it, is being completely open and honest with one another. If you sit down and have a conversation with a peer, you know that they're going to be completely frank. They'll tell you the truth and the whole truth. That, and not only that, you can trust them to have the right motives, the right purpose behind things. It's not political. They're not, you know, kind of positioning themselves and working the politics and dynamic dynamics of the organization. They're really trying to do what's right for everybody involved. So vulnerability-based trust is the first one, and that takes time. That's Patrick defines that as different from the kind of trust that is based on just knowing people in the sense that you can you know what to expect out of them if you're familiar with them. You work with them a lot, so you kind of you can trust that they're going to act a certain way. That's not what he's talking about. He's talking about this true, open, and honest approach, being candid with one another, and that comes through some specific exercises. Ultimately, times the more you know about people, about their personal lives, and the more time you spend with them is what ultimately builds trust. Michael Hingson 18:07 Yeah, and it's all about building a trusting relationship that allows for that level of honesty. Because when you truly have it, then you're you're dealing with an environment where when someone says something to you, you know they're not trying to be political. You know they're not trying to undermine you, but they're trying to give you information, and it goes back to accountability and holding maybe you accountable for the things that you said that you were going to do. But it's also about holding the whole company accountable by feeding back to and working with people to get jobs accomplished. Speaker 1 18:48 Yes, absolutely, that's right. And and for that to happen, everyone has to be on the same page. We all must be looking at the same picture of where we're planning to go and agreeing on how we plan to get there. Michael Hingson 18:59 Yeah, and in a sense, even though accountability is at the bottom of the pyramid, it starts hopefully at the top with senior management that sets the tone and starts to create the environment where everyone can learn to trust and work together in a much more positive way. Speaker 1 19:21 That's right. When we when I work with leadership teams, I half jokingly tell them in in our early sessions that they should look around at the company and admire the wonderful things that are happening, the clients and customers that are being served, the employees that are getting their job done. All all of those things are wonderful, and you helped create that wonderful. On the flip side, all of the frustrations, the pain, the things that are broken and not working, you created that too. So you have to take responsibility for all of it, the good and the bad. And so the leadership really does have to. Take responsibility for everything. Michael Hingson 20:03 Why is it that trust is so hard, and trusting relationships are so hard to build, even when when people probably have really wonderful intentions and want to do it? But why is it so hard? Speaker 1 20:16 Ooh, that's a great question. Michael Hingson 20:18 And and I'll and I'll tell you one of the reasons I ask, being a little prejudiced, working with guide dogs. I work with dogs, and I have learned over the years that while dogs may love unconditionally, they don't trust unconditionally. But dogs are more open to trust, and if you really work at building a trusting relationship with a dog, you set the rules. You set which is what they want, you set the ground rules, you set the tone, and if you do it, the relationship that develops is incredible. But that just seems to be something that's really hard for humans to do internally or between human and human. Speaker 1 20:55 You know, I think the answer is in something that you just said, and the word is intentional. Intentionality, I think that most people show up to work focusing on the work, focusing on doing things faster and more efficiently, and the how and the strategy. But they don't focus very much on the health of the team. And Pat Lynchioni talks about that as well. How that most organizations are focused on getting smarter, but not on getting healthier, and he argues that the healthier team will outperform the smarter team every single time. Michael Hingson 21:36 The other part about it is the whole concept of just being open to trust-we we in our in our human world just see so many examples of why not to trust. And I think too many people have just learned, well, we can't trust. We don't dare take the chance. We can't because everybody has their own agendas, and so how can we trust them? Because they're looking out for them. They're not looking out for me, and we teach children this. We teach each other this, and that's so unfortunate because it doesn't need to be that way. Speaker 1 22:11 Yeah, what are they? The wisest serpents, gentle as gentle as doves, is the is the saying. I, I'm not. You're right. There's a lot of people out there, unfortunately, that have ruined it. Let's say the few have ruined it for the many. I think, and the reality is that today you have to be. And now with AI, we don't need to go there. But with AI, you really have to really have to know what's going on because what seems real isn't. Michael Hingson 22:44 Yeah. Do you think that will improve over time? Speaker 1 22:49 What's that? Michael Hingson 22:50 That AI will get better over time, and a lot of things that aren't real today will become more real just because the whole process will improve. Speaker 1 23:04 Will AI improve? Yes, absolutely. Will its results and its helpfulness improve? Absolutely. Will people continue to use that for their own good? You know, for their for their own devices at the expense of other people. Yes, unfortunately. Michael Hingson 23:21 Unfortunately. Speaker 1 23:22 So, what does that make leave? Where does that leave us? I think we have to be all the more wiser to it. You can't. You can't stay ignorant and think that everything's going to be okay. Michael Hingson 23:35 Where do you think AI fits in corporations mostly, or should fit? Speaker 1 23:41 Well, it's it's an incredible tool. It is an incredible tool, and I think it's it's like it's like money. What do you what do you do with it? It's simply a tool. What are you going to do with it? Where does it fit? It depends on what kind of business model, but I see it impacting every business to some degree, we utilize it heavily. I think when I work with leadership teams, I do a lot of facilitation. So we'll we'll sit around this table here. I'm in my session room here, and we have lengthy, deep, meaningful, impactful discussions with one another, and sometimes I even encourage them to use AI to refine an idea or to collaborate over an idea. But I warn my teams that AI has no soul, and what I mean by that is, it's it's information, it's data and information, but the human being there's more to us than just information. It's like the data, the information part of us is like the tip of the iceberg, and but there's a whole mass below the waterline. I believe you have a soul and a spirit, and so the danger I warn teams of is making strategic decisions based on information that comes from AI without really discussing and using their their soul. Sometimes ideas can resonate with a person on a different level. That that AI and just information can't it can't go there. It's not able to go there. So I don't know if that makes sense. But I just warn them: AI has no soul. You need to pay attention to what's going on inside of you as you're discussing ideas and and weigh that into the decision. Michael Hingson 25:46 And I still go back to we're the ones that are and should be the creators, and so it's great to use AI to help a process, but we still need to be the ones to do the real work. Speaker 1 25:59 Yes, Michael Hingson 26:01 and I think too many times I hear about it with with schools and so on. Oh, students are just writing their papers using AI. Well, we need to work on encouraging that not to be the case. The AI can help provide information, as you pointed out, but that's what it is. It's an information source, and it's only one information source, and anyone who is truly looking for information knows full well you don't just rely on one source. Speaker 1 26:29 Right. Michael Hingson 26:30 Even if it's a human, you don't rely on one source. Speaker 1 26:33 That's right. That's right. But it but it is Michael Hingson 26:35 pretty crucial to to work through that. Well, Patrick Lencioni talks a lot about conflict, and he talks about teams that have healthy conflict, and then there are those who quietly just kind of avoid it. What distinguishes, or how do you deal with the two different kinds of teams? Because I know Patrick talks about the fact that conflict is a very useful thing and needs to be respected as part of the process, Speaker 1 27:04 right? So the second layer of the pyramid that he illustrates is healthy conflict or productive conflict, which can only happen if there is a foundation of trust, because without trust, people tend to hold their cards close to the vest. They're not willing to go out on a limb and say something that might be taken the wrong way, because for fear of retribution, or that it could be it could be used against them, or or what have you. And so conflict is may the best idea win. I have wonderful teams. They're healthy teams. They'll fight like cats and dogs over an idea, not over. It's not personal. They're simply fighting for the best idea to win, and so they'll go at it heated conversations because they have strong opinions. At the end of the day, though, what really matters is that everyone has been heard? The point of conflict is to get the options out on the table to see what's possible, to see what's available, and then from those options, pick the best. So, what healthy conflict does is it opens it up for people to share, be willing to get out there, share their opinion, go back and forth, and as I said, everyone gets heard. That's such a critical piece of healthy team is that you're hearing from everyone on the team. They're having that opportunity to share their perspective, and then when all is said and done, the what we call this person the integrator. This is the person who leads the leadership team. They have a decision to make. It's not a democracy. They have heard all of the all of the opinions, and and then they say, "Well, this is what we're going to do. And 99% of the time, reasonable people, even if they disagree with a decision, if they have been heard and know that their opinion is valued, they are willing to commit to a decision that's against what they believe should have happened. Michael Hingson 29:14 Well, so take that to the next level. Let's say that the decision is made, and in a month, it turns out it really wasn't the right decision. Then what? Speaker 1 29:25 Yeah, healthy teams can pivot, and they don't. Excuse me. There's no paralysis by analysis. They're they're able to be flexible and make a quick decision without regrets and move on. You know, in business, most of the decisions that we make are reversible. It's not like we're a brain surgeon and there's someone's on the operating table, and and one slip means drastic results, or it's not a court case, and the judge once they slam the hammer, nothing changes. That's the verdict. In business, most decisions are reversible. Sometimes I see teams or leaders who are hesitant to make a decision, and I encourage them make a decision, commit to it, and start taking steps. We can always iterate. We can make adjustments along the way, but if you don't act, if you don't take one step forward, then you can't steer a parked car, as they say. So, when when your question was if a month later it was a wrong decision, we agree as a team to pivot and move on. And a great healthy team, you know, they'll probably give one another a hard time and laugh about it and poke a bit, but but keep moving toward the goal. Michael Hingson 30:46 But it's all in fun and it's not intended in any way to be personal, Speaker 1 30:50 right? Michael Hingson 30:51 Which is really the key. None of this has to be personal. We're not doing it to one up anyone, and the good teams truly understand that. Speaker 1 31:02 That's right. Michael Hingson 31:04 Do you ever find environments where leaders unintentionally do things where accountability breaks down? Speaker 1 31:15 Yes. One thing that happens specifically with visionary or leaders or founders is something I call end run, which is when they don't follow chain of command. Basically, because of their position in the company, they feel freedom to go to anyone in the company and either make a decision or give them a directive, and the person that they're giving the directive to feels obligated to follow that because it's a senior leader. Michael Hingson 31:54 Yeah, Speaker 1 31:55 and so that really that really damages you know it's chain of command ultimately, but it damages the relationship, damages the health of the team, and the hard thing about it is that visionary leaders and founders are idea people. They are the creators. They're brilliant at coming up with seeing opportunities and coming up with ideas to solve problems and add value, so they have this natural bent to research. They're curious. They'll want to talk to people, employees in the organization, and that's all good. But they do need a healthy boundary and to understand who they should talk to about decisions or influencing employees in the organization. Michael Hingson 32:43 Yeah, I'm curious about something. How do the operations within a business differ from, say, what goes on in the military, where there's an absolute chain of command, and someone along the line, can issue an order to someone, and it's supposed to be obeyed, and so on. But how does military operations differ, or do they from business, or should they from business? Speaker 1 33:10 I yeah, that's a great. I I think there's some strong similarities, and some significant differences. You know, one question, and this was actually oddly enough. This was a military leader. I forgot who it was, but it was a general. He said something he asks his subordinates on a regular basis is, "Tell me something you know I don't want to hear. Tell me something you know I don't want to hear. And his goal there was to truly to create a relationship with his subordinates where they feel comfortable raising their hand, saying we've got an issue, here's a problem, and I think that traditionally in the military that would be resisted. I think the or my my perception anyway is that subordinates would rarely want to say something's wrong. Everything's always okay, you know. Following orders, everything's good. But I respect that that general's practice of of telling his subordinates that, and I I recommend my leaders do it as well because they need to know what's going on. Really, there's this I think a natural desire to impress or to make it look like I'm doing a good job and our department is okay, so they don't bring up real issues. And so the kind might go against your question, but the the common thread there is a willingness to talk about real issues, real problems, to bring them up, solve them together as a team. But first, be willing to identify. And oddly enough, it goes back to the trust piece: to being open and honest. You have to be willing to just call something out. The elephant in the room: several people know that there's something going on. Nobody wants. To say it, just say it. So that that's maybe one similarity. Michael Hingson 35:06 Well, I know that in reality, in the in the military, I at least I've heard this from my military friends. They they do emphasize teamwork and and teaming and so on. But at the same time, they have this reputation where there's an order and you you just obey the order because that's what the general or what someone above you says and it seems like there's a paradox there somewhere. Speaker 1 35:33 Yeah, I think in in business, what my observation has been that people do need to know the why. I think in the military that's not required, and maybe same in parenting. Sometimes it's you're on a need to know basis, and you just need to follow the order. Whereas in business, I think it's much more common practice for good leaders to give the context of why this directive matters, so that the people can connect the dots and have a clearer picture of the overall success of the mission, as it were, the goal of the organization. They can see how what they're doing is contributing to that over goal. Overall goal. Michael Hingson 36:20 Yeah, yeah. Well, and in the military, maybe the privates don't necessarily get the get to know the why, Speaker 1 36:31 right? Michael Hingson 36:31 But but the hope is that there are enough people above them who are involved in a process that there is enough of an understanding that that enough people know the why that that the process works, and I guess that's a. I've not ever been in the military, and I'm certainly not going to criticize, but it just seems to me that that the more people can communicate and interact with each other, the stronger the team will be, no matter whether it's business or military. Speaker 1 37:00 Yeah, I would hope. Michael Hingson 37:03 So you know, but so EOS generally represent talks about clarity and execution. Where do leaders typically in organizations lose traction after they set a clear vision? Where do where do things break down. Speaker 1 37:22 You know, I think one of the most powerful ideas within EOS is the weekly meeting. So there is something we call the Level 10 meeting, and the name Level 10 comes from when we started working with companies and 1000s and 1000s of companies. One of the questions we would, one of our first questions in meeting them would be: rate the quality of your meetings on a scale of one to 1010, being best. How effective are your internal team meetings? And on average, they were about a four. And so over time, we developed the level 10 meeting agenda, which is a very specific agenda for leadership teams on a weekly basis to conduct that covers makes those those meetings so effective and efficient. And we keep talking about Patrick Lencioni. He wrote another book called Death by Meetings, which is a great great book as well. But so within EOS, the level 10 meeting is a very clear agenda. It gets everyone on the same page. Data passes quickly and smoothly across the right channels to the right people. We solve problems together, and it's just a wonderful, wonderful way to keep the business moving forward. So your question was, what happens after they set a clear vision? Well, very often they lose traction because they're not on a weekly basis measuring their progress toward that goal and vision, and solving problems on a weekly basis that show up that get in the way because there will always be things that prevent us, that resist us from our goals. So, are we methodically? And this is a discipline. This is it's it's not you know glamorous. It doesn't always feel good. But if you can stick with that weekly cadence, then every single week you're you're measuring what matters, the KPIs? It's a score. You know, one of the items on the agenda is the weekly scorecard, five to 15 numbers give us an instant pulse on the business. Reviewing the data, solving problems, and marching forward. So that's where it gets lost, because also in that meeting, everyone is staying on the same page, and there's that accountability. You're looking across the table, say, asking about this initiative or this project. Is it on track? Yes or no? Are we confident we're going to get it completed on time? Do you need any help? Every single week, the leaders. Showing up to that meeting and asking those questions of one another, and they know, hey, on Tuesday at 2o'clock, I'm going to have to answer this question: Is this goal on track for the quarter? And so that introduces this accountability within the team, where the peer-it's peer-to-peer accountability. They're holding one another accountable for the goals of the organization, Michael Hingson 40:22 yeah, I talked with a person recently on one of our podcast episodes. She runs a a boutique PR organization, and it has been growing, but she's not letting it grow too fast. But it has continued to grow, and and I've asked her, and I asked her how how long do you expect or how much do you want the company to grow, and can it grow too large where it becomes unmanageable? And she acknowledged that that kind of thing can happen, and and it it kind of is an interesting concept because most entrepreneurs want their companies to be successful and grow, but when you get multi-million-dollar or larger companies and you're hiring 50, 100, 200, 500 employees, that kind of ranges raises a lot of different complications, and it gets really overly complex. At what point does all the complexity really become too dangerous to deal with? Speaker 1 41:27 So the complexity model is where you you can calculate how complex business gets by every person you add to the organization. My point is complexity is real, and as a leadership team or as a leader, you have to constantly fight the onslaught of complexity. You have to fight for keep it simple, less is more. Keep it simple, less is more. So, if you had two people in an organization, you've got two lines of communication, one going from one to the other and back. If you add a third person, so you increase the number of people by 50% Now there are six lines of communication, so 200% increase in complexity, and that's just communication. Not talking about systems, processes, culture, all of that other stuff. You add a fourth person, so you increase the number of people by 100% from the two. Now you have a A 500% increase, 12 lines of communication. Speaker 2 42:45 Yeah, Speaker 1 42:46 so you have to, as a leader, fight against complexity, and the way that you do that is by less is more, keep it simple. Within EOS, we set three to seven rocks. We call them every quarter. Those are just business priorities, not 27, three to seven. Because if everything is important, nothing is important. So you're always asking yourself as a leader, what's the simplest way to say this, communicate this? What's the simplest way to do this? Do we have the simplest possible structure for the organization. Occam's razor says that the simplest solution is invariably the best solution, or the best solution is invariably the simplest solution. So the the complexity thing is real. You have to stay aware of it, and and fight against it by keeping things simple as you go. Michael Hingson 43:42 Yeah, and and the reality is, it goes back to what you were talking about. Certainly, the weekly meetings and other methods that you use to make sure that everyone not only is encouraged to communicate, but they do communicate. And again, it all gets back to that bottom level of the pyramid, which is accountability, and as long as everyone understands and feels the concept of accountability, and that we're all working toward the same thing, you have a much better shot at making it successful and making it work. Speaker 1 44:15 Right, that's right. Within EOS, we have a two-page strategic plan, not 50 pages. It's not this giant document. It's two pages that allow everyone within the organization to see who we are, where we're going, how we plan to get there. It's simple. Michael Hingson 44:36 Yeah. So, for a while, you didn't own your own business, and then you you now own your own business. How is becoming your own entrepreneur and your own your own business owner, boss, or whatever you want to call it? How has that changed? Kind of the advice you give to other people, and and what do you think about being? A business owner, as opposed to working within another organization, Speaker 1 45:05 you know, I I think I I'm spoiled. No, I don't think I could ever be a good employee again. Yeah, I just have a deep appreciation for visionaries, for people who see what's possible and then rally a team around them to help make it become a reality. That's a special. That's a special quality, and the world needs lots of that quality. So I, I, I have gained just a greater appreciation for the entrepreneurial spirit, and I, I think that it's it's now it's not for everybody, and that's okay. But I, I just can connect now more deeply than I ever could with people who are taking that step of faith, being courageous, doing something that's risky and uncomfortable, and just figuring it out as they go. I think that's for me particularly that resonates. I can't now, and I get it. I I understand. There's the majority of people are comfortable with a oops are are comfortable with a salary, a steady amount of income, and the safety that that brings. But I just it doesn't compute for me. I can't do it. It's just not for me what life is about. Michael Hingson 46:26 Yeah, I know. Especially since 2008, I've not only owned my own company, but it's been mainly me and dealing with lining up speaking engagements and so on, and especially since we moved down here in in 26 2014, I'm I'm very used to being my own individual, and and I I hear exactly what you're saying. I can work in an environment where there are other people, and there's there's times that that's that's a good thing, but I know that especially during COVID, people complained a lot about being locked down and they really missed being with other people, and I always had a little bit of a problem with that because I don't I don't look at other people, so that's one thing, but I learned that I could still communicate with people, and so I I didn't fall into some of those traps. I just do find it interesting, but I understand what you're saying. You're used to to to being the person not only in charge, but you're interested in setting the vision, and there's a lot of merit to that. Speaker 1 47:40 Yeah, yeah, and and he it takes all of us. If he had all visionaries and no doers, no you know no executors, then we'd be in a mess. I'm terribly sorry. The it's later here in the evening, and the cleaners are are at the door. Let me just tell them to wait 10. Give me 10 minutes on the office here. I'll be back in just a moment. Okay. Michael Hingson 48:05 So, yeah, I I appreciate the the position, and I can live with it as as well, and I can I can cope. I can work either way, but I I do like kind of really being the person in charge of me, I think it it probably works better. Yeah, that's okay. Speaker 1 48:28 Yep, we're all wired differently. Michael Hingson 48:30 Yeah, we are. So, in in making decisions, data is is a very important thing, and and it's certainly something that we need to keep around. Why do so many people resist and business leaders resist using data in a kind of an honest way? What are they afraid of? Speaker 1 48:51 Well, I think that data is can make things black and white. I think that data can be very telling because we can share opinions and feelings and ideas, but you can't. The numbers are the numbers; they they are what they are, which is why we use this weekly scorecard in that level 10 meeting I was talking about. But Ronald Reagan said, "Trust but verify. So the idea here is that people don't respect what you expect; they respect what you inspect, and the data is an inspection of what actually happened, what's real, what's what's going on on the ground, and that that's uncomfortable. The numbers don't lie most of the time. Now they can be manipulated, and people can tell stories. But if you're set up in the scorecard the right way with the right. Measuring the right things, it gives you a good idea of what's really going on. So I think it's just a natural resistance, a fear of being falling short, a fear of punishment. Ultimately, you know, in some form or fashion, hardship, difficulty, uncomfortability, things like that. Michael Hingson 50:22 But I think the the other thing I show about data, though, is it is kind of hard factual information, as you say. But it doesn't necessarily always bring the human element into to to things that maybe ought to be considered as well. So that the data should only be part of the final decision-making process. Speaker 1 50:45 It's very true. Very true. If you're looking at the numbers, there's always a story behind the numbers. What's the story behind the numbers? And that has to be part of the equation. Michael Hingson 50:55 As a as a speaker, I get a lot of people who say, "Well, we'll consider you fill out this form, and will evaluate you along with everyone else. And the problem is, I've realized that a lot of these forms, you fill them out, and you get a bunch of words on a screen, but doesn't really tell the whole story. And that's unfortunate because I think that too many evaluators are missing out on really understanding speakers when that happens. Speaker 1 51:25 Yeah, I believe that's true. Yes, absolutely. Hearing someone in person can't compare to just words on a page. Michael Hingson 51:36 Well, so yeah, it's just one of those things that one has to deal with when a team experiences a setback. What is it that causes some people to recover quickly while others don't necessarily recover quickly? Speaker 1 51:54 Why don't some people recover more quickly? Michael Hingson 51:59 Or teams, yeah. Speaker 1 52:00 Or teams. I think I don't know that I can separate teams from people. Michael Hingson 52:08 Yeah. Okay. Speaker 1 52:09 You know, and I say that because it has to do with self awareness. It has to do with personal development. I think many of these qualities are inseparable from the performance of the team, because a team is ultimately a group of individuals, and so in that way you've got the team dynamic. But you're you're also going to rely heavily on the character and the qualities of the individuals on the team. And if some people just can't let go, if they can't just raise their eyes or turn their gaze from the past and look forward, then, then they're going to struggle. Now, there are tools. You know, who is it? An autopsy without blame. He called it in good to great. In good to great, he said. This is where. What was his name now? Jim. I forget his name. Who wrote Good to Great, Jim Collins? Michael Hingson 53:04 Collins. He said Speaker 1 53:05 he called it on autopsy without blame, which is a team or person's ability to look back at the past and just understand. Okay, what happened? This isn't this isn't to point fingers. We just need to know what actually went down, so that we can learn from it. Because I tell teams this all the time, the past is only good for one thing-learning from it. And once you learn from it, you got to let go and move on. So the and and it's funny, I say this again every every meeting that I have with them. Actually, we review our data and we look back, we understand what. And then I said at the end of that review, I say, "Okay, that's the past. Nothing else we can do about it. Anything else need to be said before we leave it completely in the past and move forward? And I give them that opportunity to process and to you know make observations, insights, confessions. But after that moment, we got to let it go, and I think that a team has to be committed to be willing to do that for them to be able to to move forward. Michael Hingson 54:09 Yeah. Well, a lot of what you do is I suspect helping leaders, especially shift their mindset in some way. What mindset shift really helps leaders move from reacting to problems to leading intentionally and developing the kinds of of operations that we're talking about here as being successful? Speaker 1 54:35 I think you know you said mindset shift, but this is what I would call a mindset best practice. It's something I call a clarity break. A clarity break is a time scheduled on your calendar. So this is hard landscape. This is a an appointment you make with yourself that you keep, and in a clarity break, you get away from all the noise. You turn all the notifications off. You. On do not disturb mode, and you get a legal pad and a pen, and you simply think it. You think about the biz, think about the business, think about the biggest challenge you're facing, and you just start writing. And it's amazing what kind of solutions, ideas, next actions come to us when we have that clarity of mind. When we have time to get gain perspective, to take a step out of the fray, all of the noise, and just simply think. There's fewer things more valuable than high quality, pure thought, just simple thinking time. So that that is a mindset best practice, I would say, and and I encourage leaders to do it at a minimum of once a week, 3060, 90 minutes. Get a legal pad. Now, there's another book out there called The The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham. That's lessons from the the chairman of the board, and he that book is a book full of questions that leaders should be asking themselves about the business. You could use those as prompts, or just again get quiet and think about the business right now. And I promise you, you'll start writing, and the thoughts will just flow, and you'll write the whole time and come up with such clarity and such perspective that allows you to re reengage, reenter the business with confidence as to what needs to happen, what are our next steps, and that's so important because that confidence is a precious commodity for leaders. You have to protect your confidence, and the confidence comes from clarity, and the clarity comes from taking time away from the business to simply sit and think. Michael Hingson 56:46 One of the things that I think all too often we individually and collectively don't do is to just stop and think about life, think about things, do more internal introspection, and that's kind of what you're talking about. And the reality is, if we would do more of that, and if we would listen to our own mind, we would discover so many things that would help us along the way. My favorite example is Trivial Pursuit, where I ask people regularly when you're playing Trivial Pursuit, and somebody asks, and somebody reads a question from a card. Immediately, you think of an answer, but you went, "Oh, that came too quickly. That can't be it. And so you think again and come up with another answer. But that first answer invariably was the right answer. But that's not what we listen to. We're teaching ourselves not to be so introspective and to sit back or to sit down and think about whatever it is that we need to think about, and as you point out, writing things down. Speaker 1 57:50 Yes, so valuable and and hard to do, frankly, in our age of distraction. Our phone is so distracting, and so so many other options, so many other things that hit the dopamine, get the dopamine flowing, that challenge our our ability to, or our sitting down and making time to do simple thinking time. Michael Hingson 58:16 Yeah. Well, if a leadership team today wanted to have one practical step about how they would work together this quarter. What would you advise? How would you advise them to start? In addition to reaching out Speaker 1 58:34 to you, which I'm Michael Hingson 58:35 all in favor of, but that's another story. Speaker 1 58:38 You know, there is a tool out there that I would point them to. It's called the organizational checkup. It's free. It's online. It's put out by EOS. There's no obligation, no strings attached, or anything like that. But I think that tool. It's a set of 20 questions, and you rate each question on a scale of one to five, five being best. And that tool would really shine the light on where the most pain is being felt across the organization. When the leaders, first of all, just give an honest assessment of those 20 questions, they'll be able to put their finger right on the priority of what they need should should fix first. And I think that would just that exercise alone would get them all on the same page of what problem to tackle first, and I think that would be the very valuable for them. Michael Hingson 59:30 And what is that called again? Speaker 1 59:31 It's called the organizational checkup. If you were to Google EOS organizational checkup, there'll be a link there, and it's just 20 questions. Michael Hingson 59:40 Great. Well, if people want to reach out to you and learn from you, or interact with you, and maybe use your services and so on, how best can they do that? Speaker 1 59:52 Yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn is great. Also, if you just did a search for EOS Will Watrous, my name, it'll come up. I've got lots of content out there. The EOS website has my listing and contact information on there as well. Michael Hingson 1:00:06 And what are what's your LinkedIn name or handle? Will Speaker 1 1:00:10 Watchers. Yep, Wils. Michael Hingson 1:00:16 Okay. Well, I hope people will reach out. This clearly has been instructive in so many ways and lots of great ideas. So I want to thank you for being here and being a part of this. And I want to thank all of you who are paying attention to us today, wherever you're listening and/or watching. If you'd like to reach out to me, and I'd love to hear what you think, please email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com at speaker at m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com wherever you are with us in the podcast please give us a five star rating but more important give us a review we love reviews and people who are interested in looking at podcasts love to see the reviews that others have thought about podcasts, and so hopefully you'll say nice things about us. But either way, please give us a review. If you know someone who ought to be a guest on our our podcast, Will, including you, please introduce us. We're always looking for people to come and tell their stories. and And with that, again, I want to thank you for being here, Will. This has been absolutely fun. It's been hours gone by without without any any time seeming like it passed. So thank you very much for being here. Speaker 1 1:01:29 Thank you, Mike. What a pleasure to speak with you, and looking forward to your podcast success. Michael Hingson 1:01:37 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back, and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset.
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A new GV Wire report looks at the role of the Foundation for Fresno Unified Students, focusing on how it recently stepped in to fund school field trips and how the foundation has managed the $20 million donation philanthropist MacKenzie Scott made to Fresno Unified in 2022. Please Like, Comment and Follow 'Philip Teresi on KMJ' on all platforms: --- Philip Teresi on KMJ is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever else you listen to podcasts. -- Philip Teresi on KMJ Weekdays 2-6 PM Pacific on News/Talk 580 AM & 105.9 FM KMJ | Website | Facebook | Instagram | X | Podcast | Amazon | - Everything KMJ KMJNOW App | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A new GV Wire report looks at the role of the Foundation for Fresno Unified Students, focusing on how it recently stepped in to fund school field trips and how the foundation has managed the $20 million donation philanthropist MacKenzie Scott made to Fresno Unified in 2022. Please Like, Comment and Follow 'Philip Teresi on KMJ' on all platforms: --- Philip Teresi on KMJ is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever else you listen to podcasts. -- Philip Teresi on KMJ Weekdays 2-6 PM Pacific on News/Talk 580 AM & 105.9 FM KMJ | Website | Facebook | Instagram | X | Podcast | Amazon | - Everything KMJ KMJNOW App | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jonathan sits down with Scott Harrison, charity: water founder, for a wide-ranging reflection on his 20-year mission to bring clean water to everyone on earth. Scott revisits the original spark, the scale of the problem, the storytelling strategy that helped build the movement, and the personal tension of leading a global nonprofit while raising a family. We discuss the long game of solving a problem that is both massive and solvable, why generosity is often unlocked through story rather than statistics, and how Scott thinks about balance, legacy, and “the work with no end.”Key topics:Scott looks back on the early days of charity: water and the energy of the original nightclub fundraiser that launched the organizationThe scale of the mission has grown to more than $1 billion mobilized, 216,000 projects across 29 countries, and about 700 million people still without clean waterStorytelling, not statistics, is the core tool charity: eater uses to overcome apathy and make distant suffering feel personalThe Rachel Beckwith story shows how one child's birthday campaign became a global movement that ultimately helped more than 100,000 peopleThe conversation digs into the tension between mission and family, especially for leaders whose work could easily consume all their timeScott shares how his kids reflect back the values he hopes to modelThe closing theme is generosity as an endless practice - giving, serving, and sharing rather than accumulatingYou can find Scott at: Website | Charity Water Instagram | Scott's Instagram | Episode TranscriptNext week, we're bringing you a best-of episode with Mark Nepo, to talk about why falling down might be the most useful thing that happens to you all year. Be sure to follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss that or any upcoming episodes!Check out our sponsors and resources: Visit Our Sponsor Page Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
On this week's Totally Extra: a MASSIVE apology for the sweet eating. We're aware it's gross. Troxy shoutouts are open for a final week and we're getting excited and the english language takes a hit as Luisa takes on the word "slovenly".Plus, being dumped on sight over a blue leather jacket, a husband who favoured a bath over tending to his wife in labour, a nan's inheritance lost in one night, and five years of quietly cheating at mum's Christmas quiz.OH, and we're talking to Jake Haendel from Blink next week! Send in your questions for him!It's time to get TOTALLY EXTRA. Extra chat, extra rants, extra bants, extra stories, nonsense and more.LuAnna: The Podcast is a Global production, available every Monday and Thursday on Global Player, YouTube or wherever you get your shows. Make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode.Remember, if you want to get in touch you can:Email us at luanna@everythingluanna.com OR drop us a WhatsApp on our NEW NUMBER: 07521564640Please review Global's Privacy Policy: https://global.com/legal/privacy-policy/
Lit Hein fav Erik Martini is back on the pod after a harrowing injury!! He snapped his ankle clean off! He spent 19 days in the hospital and racked up a $200k hospital bill and is giving us the podcast exclusive.Erik takes us through his electric summer leading up the Ankle Gate, how the accident happened, army crawling for help, and how this injury has changed his perspective on his career, friends and alcohol
She went through 17 rounds of IVF to have her three daughters. Then one night she put cable ties around all three of their necks. This is the case of Lauren Dickason. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Detective Adam Bernard's Day 2 testimony in the Caleb Flynn trial focused on what investigators did after the initial scene work was over. The Tipp City detective described evidence collected in the days following Ashley Flynn's death, including electronic information obtained under a Microsoft search warrant. Cross-examination focused heavily on the firearm search. Bernard testified that he spent tens of hours searching the Flynn residence for the gun. He also said officers searched sewer drains. The testimony established that the search was lengthy and expanded outside the home's ordinary storage spaces. The defense also asked Bernard about tips received during the investigation. He testified that he collected tip reports and sent them to the FBI. Bernard said he did not know whether the FBI followed up on those tips. That distinction matters because his testimony established the transfer of the information, but not what investigators outside Tipp City did after receiving it. Bernard further testified that electronic data was collected under a Microsoft search warrant. That portion of his testimony addressed another category of evidence gathered after the incident. Cross-examination concentrated more sharply on how long police searched for the firearm and what happened to tips after Bernard forwarded them. Caleb Flynn has pleaded not guilty in the death of his wife, Ashley Flynn. Prosecutors allege he staged the scene to look like a burglary after killing Ashley. The defense says a home invader killed her and investigators settled on Caleb too quickly. That makes Bernard's cross-examination especially important. Jurors heard how hard police searched for the firearm, but they also heard that Bernard could not tell them whether tips sent to the FBI were pursued. The argument now is not simply about how much investigative work was done. It is about which leads were exhausted, which were handed off, and what the jury can actually conclude from that record. Listen Anywhere You Get Podcasts: https://pod.link/1655749292 Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspod?sub_confirmation=1 Join Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/ Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspod X Twitter https://x.com/tonybpod This publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice. #CalebFlynnTrial #AshleyFlynn #TrueCrimeToday #AdamBernard #TippCityPD #OhioCourt #ElectronicEvidence #FirearmSearch #MurderTrial #TrialCoverage
(Episode 351) A betrayed partner wrote to us about her husband's roughly 33-year history of hidden lust addiction and a specific sexual fixation involving women's bodies that remained secret throughout their 15-year relationship. Since D-Day about five months ago, he has thrown himself into recovery—attending meetings, working with a sponsor and therapist, completing disclosure, doing daily check-ins, eliminating old acting-out outlets, and practicing “custody of the eyes.” Yet what troubles his wife is his insistence that he now experiences zero slips, cravings, attractions, fantasies, or temptations and actually feels angry or repulsed when other women enter his field of vision. We cannot know exactly what is happening inside him, but we believe his reaction could be sincere. Early in recovery, addicts often become overwhelmed by the damage they have caused and recoil intensely from everything they associate with their addiction.The concern is that genuine repulsion is not necessarily the same thing as mature recovery. After decades of repetitive sexual conditioning, five months represents the beginning of change, not the completion of it. Strict avoidance may be useful in early sobriety, but if recovery becomes nothing more than “Don't look, don't feel, don't notice, don't be sexual,” it can turn into white-knuckling, fear, obsessive avoidance, or shame. Other women are not the problem, and sexuality itself is not the enemy. The deeper work is learning to live in a world with attractive people and human bodies while seeing others as whole human beings rather than objects, learning to notice attraction without feeding it, and developing the ability to engage sexuality with honesty, boundaries, mutuality, connection, and integrity.For this betrayed partner, the question does not have to be reduced to “Do I believe him or not?” His current feelings may be completely genuine while still reflecting early recovery immaturity, fear, or limited self-awareness. What will matter most is what happens over time. Does he become increasingly capable of acknowledging temptation without shame? Can he distinguish noticing from scanning and attraction from objectification? Can he be transparent even when the truth feels risky, rather than insisting everything is always “zero”? Healthy recovery ultimately moves beyond fear and repulsion toward freedom—the ability to experience whatever arises internally without being controlled by it, hiding it, or turning it into betrayal. His recovery will be demonstrated less by claiming he never feels anything and more by consistently showing that whatever he does feel can be met with honesty, self-awareness, and integrity.For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: He Spent Decades Lusting—Now He Says Other Women Repulse Him—Should I Believe Him?Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.comFind out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension CounselingLearn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services
In today's episode, Brock Johnson sits down with Chandler Bolt to talk about the moment he decided to spend $500K rebuilding his personal brand after scaling his company to $75M without one. They get into what actually triggered that decision, the shift from a top-down to a bottom-up approach, and exactly where the money went, production, ad spend, ghostwriters, coaching, and team. Brock asks him how he thinks about ROI on something as hard to measure as a personal brand investment when the business was already thriving without it. Chandler also breaks down some of the unconventional tactics he's used, including a bounty system paying people to help him land guest spots on podcasts, along with other off-the-wall growth ideas. They dig into his philosophy that a personal brand should be an asset rather than a limitation, why he believes "faceless" stopped working in the age of AI, and whether that's a real shift or a story he needed to justify the spend. Brock closes by asking what the 20% of his playbook would look like for someone working with a $5K budget instead of $500K, and how short-form video fits alongside books as his original leverage tool. Watch On YouTube
Rover's birthday, dating your neighbor, and Oktoberfest. Fight between Ryan Blaney and Carson Hocevar at the NASCAR race at Bristol. A cable man asked to borrow customers phone to test the wi-fi signal and forwarded a sexually explicit video to himself. Duji throws trash into the recycling bin. Soliciting nudes. Carrot Top was hospitalized due to a suicide attempt. Brian Evans music videos have surprising cameos. Movies in 12k. Charlie was spending about $1k a year on coffee. Sunday Football. Ed Sheeran addresses the recent dilemma with Macklemore being released from his tour. Broken virgin Mary statue. JLR gives up trying to karaoke Earth, Wind, & Fire for Rover's birthday. JLR's 'this day in history' calendar. Night of Destruction, Krystle's roof, and JLR's headlight. 60 Minutes with Patrick Clancy. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
What if the scariest leap of faith became your greatest freedom? Today's guest turned a grueling commute and a passed-over promotion into a thriving multi-disciplinary clinic, all while raising her kids and earning her MBA. I'm so excited to share her story with you!I'm introducing you to Tiffany Fairdosi, an SLP with over 13 years of experience and the founder of Kinetic Speech Services, a private speech and OT clinic serving Pearland and the greater Houston area.Tiffany's career began in skilled nursing and inpatient rehab, where she specialized in stroke rehab and Parkinson's disease. While she remains passionate about adult care, her expertise spans all ages from early childhood through the golden years. She blends evidence-based practice with a family-centered approach, believing communication is the key to connection at every stage of life.After years of working across multiple settings, the breaking point came when she was passed over for a leadership role and faced a grueling 45-minute commute that stole time with her son. She decided to bet on herself.She started as a mobile provider, but after navigating the Texas heat with seven patients a day, she found a permanent home. What began as a solo practice has since expanded into a brick-and-mortar clinic offering both speech and occupational therapy, a natural response to a critical need in her community. In just three months, she has grown from a team of one to an SLP, SLPA, OT, and office manager, with more hires on the way.Her journey is proof that private practice isn't for the faint of heart but for those willing to jump in scared, it's absolutely worth it.Outside of work, Tiffany's favorite roles are wife and mom to her two boys. Her mission is to show that you can be a successful business owner, a present parent, and a leader who puts family first.In Today's Episode, We Discuss:How a passed-over promotion pushed her to go all-inGrowing from a mobile provider to a 4-room clinic with speech and OTWhy she hired an OT even though she was terrifiedHow bringing her kids to work models success for other familiesTiffany is living proof that you don't need perfect timing to start. She jumped in, did it scared, and built something extraordinary.Her story doesn't have to be the exception. You can build the private practice of your dreams too, even while juggling kids, a commute, and a full-time job.If you're ready to stop waiting and start building a practice that's truly aligned with your goals, Private Practice School is here to help. We start with a Personalized Private Practice Plan and then give you the tools, such as the Life First calendar and our Numbers Made Simple Calculators, and me in your corner every week, whether you're opening the doors or growing what you've already built.Please visit www.PrivatePracticeSchool.com to learn more, and follow me on Instagram @independentclinician for more tips, inspiration, and resources to support your private practice journey.Resources Mentioned:Follow Tiffany on:Instagram: instagram.com/kineticspeechservicesFacebook: facebook.com/kineticspeechservicesCheck out her website: kineticspeech.comWhere We Can Connect:Follow the Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/private-practice-success-stories/id1374716199Follow Me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/independentclinician/Follow Me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jena.castrocasbon/
Dion Dawkins joins Mike Schopp and the Bulldog to discuss his 40-pound weight loss and his goal of reaching the All-Pro level. He shares his experiences blocking Aidan Hutchinson and Khalil Mack while praising the high-energy atmosphere at the Bills' home opener.
#pubquiz #trivia #quiz #generalknowledge #questions #bartrivia #answers #weeklytrivia #weeklyquizquestionsHello Quizheads! Welcome to Takeaway Trivia, your weekly pub quiz in a podcast.Four rounds of bar trivia in the comfort of your own home. No queuing for your beer, no sticky tables and no one heckling the answers. Play the quiz however you like. Get your gang together and play like a true trivia night or entertain yourself while you're pounding the treadmill at the gym!This week's rounds:>2:20: General Knowledge>5:58: Time Tunnel>11:45: Quiz Links>17:00: The End of the Quiz QuizCONTACT TAT> Facebook> Bluesky> Ko-fiWe make every effort to check that the trivia is correct at the time of publishing however, the contents of this podcast are presented for entertainment purposes only. Takeaway Trivia cannot be held responsible for any errors. Please get in touch if you think we've got it wrong to win the ultimate pedant's prize - a shout out in the Correction Section!Takeaway Trivia is available wherever you download podcasts including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music and Audible. It's also available on Youtube New episode every Monday!Music:"There It Is" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Life of Riley" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Carpe Diem" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Easy Lemon" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Big Mojo" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Unlocking The Magic: Talking all things Disney World and Disneyland
Is Salem, Massachusetts actually worth visiting?We spent the day exploring Witch City to find out what's actually worth seeing, eating and doing in Salem.We visit some of Salem's historic landmarks, including the House of the Seven Gables, check out shops and witchy attractions, try candy from America's oldest candy company, grab coffee, pizza and cookies, and even stop by the historic Hawthorne Hotel.But Salem is an interesting mix. There's the very real and sometimes dark history of the Salem Witch Trials, mixed with the spooky Halloween side of the city, tourist attractions, shops and food.So is Salem worth visiting? Is it good for kids? And what would we do, or skip, on our next trip?Come along as we Unlock Salem, Massachusetts.Let us know in the comments: What's one place in Salem we missed that we HAVE to visit next time?
A church that drew seven hundred people now meets in borrowed storefronts with fifteen. A $2.1 million property is slated for condos. The allies who once surrounded JP Miller are releasing public statements swearing they were never part of his inner circle. And the woman leading worship next to him at those pop-up services is his third wife — married barely a year after the second one died.Miller was indicted in December 2025 on federal charges of cyberstalking and making false statements. Prosecutors allege he harassed Mica Miller from November 2022 through her death in April 2024 — tracking devices, daily contacts exceeding fifty, financial interference, and an intimate image posted without consent. He has pleaded not guilty and denies the allegations. Mica was thirty, filed for divorce two days before her death, and her death was ruled a suicide. Miller has not been charged in her death. Trial is October 2026.Psychotherapist Shavaun Scott sits down with Tony for a three-part conversation covering the full scope. The enablers who court filings describe as alleged participants in Mica's harassment — and who ran only when the Netflix docuseries and federal case made standing next to Miller impossible. The "carewashing" claim — prosecutors say Miller framed his tracking of Mica as protection when questioned by agents. And the marriage to Suzie Skinner, whose first husband — a quadriplegic Army veteran — drowned in 2021 in circumstances his family has publicly questioned.The alleged ecosystem around Mica Miller didn't collapse with her death. It allegedly reassembled.Listen Anywhere You Get Podcasts: https://pod.link/1655749292Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspod?sub_confirmation=1Join Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspodX Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodThis publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice.#MicaMiller #JPMiller #HiddenKillers #TrueCrime #DeathOfThePastorsWife #SolidRockChurch #Cyberstalking #FederalTrial #Netflix #ShavaunScott
in dec of 2023 i had an income dip that sent me on a frantic quest for "the answer to business". i wanted to find the right business strategy, coach, funnel, or formula to give me consistent income + a business that works. in 2024 alone, i spent $25k+ trying to find the "answer". and even though some of the strategies technically worked, i ended the year- making less money, feeling more exhausted + dreading client calls. that's when i knew i needed to change. in this episode, i'm sharing what happened when i stopped chasing income.... and started CREATING it. you'll hear:why following a strategy that “works” can still leave you feeling trapped by your businesswhat changed when i stopped strategy hopping + started playing the game i could actually winhow to create more income without making money at the expense of your freedom, energy + enjoymentpress play to stop chasing income + start building a business where your income follows your leadership.join PAID FOR YOUR OBSESSION. sep 28- oct 2
A woman jailed for nearly six months for a crime she says she could not have committed is now suing the city of Fargo for $10 million. The Tennessee grandmother Angela Lipps was arrested last summer after Fargo police used AI facial recognition technology to connect her to bank thefts.Her lawsuit claims a detective relied only on that AI technology, even though Lipps has never even been to North Dakota. Charges were eventually dropped after her attorney provided bank records showing she was in Tennessee at the time of those thefts. Lipps says she lost her home and car while she was in jail for something she didn't do and was denied basic care while she was behind bars.Fargo's former police chief previously acknowledged mistakes in the investigation. The department later required more AI training and changed its facial recognition rules.The city of Fargo has not responded to the lawsuit. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Sarena is a longtime listener of The Hello Someday Podcast and a member of the Sobriety Starter Kit® community. In this episode, she shares what finally made her stop trying to make moderation work, what surprised her about the first few weeks alcohol-free, how she navigated Italy without drinking at less than a month alcohol-free, and what her life looks like now at one year. For the full show notes, kindly go to this podcast episode link: https://hellosomedaycoaching.com/i-spent-7-years-trying-to-make-moderation-work-sarenas-alcohol-free-story/ 4 Ways I Can Support You In Drinking Less + Living More Join The Sobriety Starter Kit, the only sober coaching course designed specifically for busy women. My proven, step-by-step sober coaching program will teach you exactly how to stop drinking — and how to make it the best decision of your life. Save your seat in my FREE MASTERCLASS, 5 Secrets To Successfully Take a Break From Drinking Grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking, 30 Tips For Your First Month Alcohol-Free. Connect with me for free sober coaching tips, updates + videos on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest and TikTok @hellosomedaysober. Love The Podcast and Want To Say Thanks? ☕ Buy me a coffee! In the true spirit of Seattle, coffee is my love language. So if you want to support the hours that go into creating this show each week, click this link to buy me a coffee and I'll run to the nearest Starbucks + lift a Venti Almond Milk Latte and toast to you! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/hellosomeday
A woman jailed for nearly six months for a crime she says she could not have committed is now suing the city of Fargo for $10 million. The Tennessee grandmother Angela Lipps was arrested last summer after Fargo police used AI facial recognition technology to connect her to bank thefts.Her lawsuit claims a detective relied only on that AI technology, even though Lipps has never even been to North Dakota. Charges were eventually dropped after her attorney provided bank records showing she was in Tennessee at the time of those thefts. Lipps says she lost her home and car while she was in jail for something she didn't do and was denied basic care while she was behind bars.Fargo's former police chief previously acknowledged mistakes in the investigation. The department later required more AI training and changed its facial recognition rules.The city of Fargo has not responded to the lawsuit. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Former Fort Worth Police Officer Tegan Broadwater returns to Game of Crimes for Part 2 of 'Life in the Fishbowl' — the brutal aftermath of 18 months infiltrating the Crips. In Part 1, his cover survived a COPS rerun on a trap house TV. Now he faces the heavier truth: every bust has a human cost.
Joshua Bentz grew up in Connecticut, watched his parents split, felt unwanted by his mother, took to the streets, became a White Crip, cycled through juvenile detention, Connecticut state prison, and eventually the federal prison system — navigating addiction, prison politics, gang life, and the specific difficulty of finding work as a felon — before finally finding sobriety and the turning point that everything that life had cost him desperately needed. _____________________________________________ #federalprison #prisonstory #truecrimestories _____________________________________________ Thank you to CASH APP for sponsoring this episode: Download Cash App Today: https://click.cash.app/ui6m/6pao71et #CashAppPod Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. _____________________________________________ Connect with Joshua Bentz: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1Jd1DEDgfo/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sinnertusaint?igsh=OGlicGh1Yndkcnlt YouTube: https://youtube.com/@sinnertusaint-official?si=7-L4Ke1fSoM3Pkil TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sinnertusaint?_r=1&_t=ZT-98rDuWFPuV4 _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Growing Up in a Broken Home 00:42 Mom's Neglect and Success 01:41 Feeling Abandoned by Mother 03:22 Reconnecting with Dying Mother 05:15 Mother's Death and Addiction 08:19 Sent to a Bad Kids Camp 10:43 First Real Fight 12:37 Getting Exposed to the Streets 14:04 Joining Gangs as a Token White Boy 17:52 Being a White Gang Member in Prison 20:14 Early Jail Stints and Drug Use 23:06 First Brush with Heroin 25:53 Identity Theft and First Real Bid 27:55 Finding a Reason to Change 28:18 Serving Time at Gladiator School 32:05 Joining the Crips in the City 35:05 Gang Politics in Prison 38:53 The Neta Letter Incident 43:42 PTSD and Paranoia After Prison 45:51 Navigating Life as a Felon 47:43 After the First Big Sentence 51:10 Running from Rehab and a Strange Encounter 53:00 Court-Ordered Program and Violation 55:44 Prison Rules and Violence 01:01:01 A Near Stabbing in Jail 01:03:03 Prison Rules Carry Home 01:04:22 Life After Three-Year Violation 01:05:52 Marriage and Infidelity 01:09:11 Arrested for Threats 01:12:25 Growing Marijuana and Working at Shelter 01:15:01 Confronting Wife's Affair 01:17:44 A Night of Violence and a Loaded Gun 01:20:04 Escaping with Plants and Guns 01:22:15 Arrest and Charges 01:25:41 Arrest for Violating Restraining Order 01:26:20 Self-Harm and Mental Struggles 01:28:18 Getting Out and Meeting Wife on Tinder 01:30:56 Starting a Construction Business 01:33:15 Relapse and Drug Dealing 01:36:44 Noticing Surveillance 01:38:53 Friend Turns Violent 01:41:04 Avoiding a Fatal Shooting 01:43:20 Moving to South Carolina and Gun Sales 01:47:29 Arrested by the Feds 01:50:05 Trying to Evade Arrest 01:53:37 In South Carolina Jail 01:56:37 Transfer to Georgia and Oklahoma 02:02:20 Life in Oklahoma Transfer Station 02:04:45 A Fight Breaks Out in Oklahoma 02:08:02 Locked Up for a Breakfast Tray 02:12:17 Arrival at Wyatt Detention Center 02:17:30 Facing 65 Years 02:20:04 Getting Out on Bail 02:22:46 Support Court and Accountability 02:28:32 Fighting My Case from Home 02:32:44 Restorative Justice Program 02:37:04 Creating a Nonprofit and Giving Back 02:43:44 Serving Time and Facing Old Rules 02:46:50 PTSD and Coping with the Past 02:47:53 Relationship with Dad 02:49:19 Unofficially Leaving the Gang 02:53:05 Prison Yard Politics and Violence 02:57:08 Coping Mechanisms and Final Reflections 03:05:00 Advice to My Younger Self _____________________________________________ To advertise on the show, contact sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/LockedInWithIanBicka
And how she's building her second company on completely different terms.⇢ WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/xPh8oT44RaEMonica sits down with unicorn founder, investor, and serial entrepreneur Suneera Madhani to unpack the decade she spent working like a man (hello, burnout!) and what it took to unlearn it. They get into building her second company on completely different terms, how her ambition has shifted since becoming a mum, how she keeps her marriage polarised as the feminine female breadwinner, and the one thing she wishes somebody had told her about success.(Important note: Suneera is one of only 27 women in the US to build and exit a billion-dollar company… volume up and pens out for notes on this one!)They also cover:
We got an anonymous Spill The Tea about Amy lying about being on the dating apps and even brings in evidence. Bobby reveals what he spent a bunch of money on to be named after him at the Arkansas football stadium. Amy tries to guess and he explains why he spent money on it. Bobby shared what he allowed Baby Billie to watch for her first screen time experience.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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