Lawyer Up! Podcast

In 1974, Ohio's prison population was 8,400 Ohioan. By 2011, the number grew to 51,000. Are we any safer as a result? Do all these inmates need to remain behind bars? Are we just locking up people without adequate attention being paid to things like education, drug treatment, mental health treatment and cognitive therapy? Our guest, Gary Mohr, former Director of the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, wanted to know, and so he called on the late Edward Latessa, PhD, of the University of Cincinnati's Department of Criminal Justice to find out. Latessa spent three years visiting every prison in Ohio, collecting data and examining every program prisons offered to inmates. He concluded that an inmate's pursuit of a GED, drug treatment and other self-help programs resulted in a statistically significant difference in terms of violence and recidivism. After Latessa completed his research, the Ohio legislature delved into revising the criminal code and created a panel of 23 individuals, consisting of legislators, defense attorneys, prosecutors and corrections staff. After a year and a half, several recommendations were made, all of which were endorsed by a legislative committee, and then—nothing. No legislation was introduced. If Ohio's prison population has increased from 8,400 to 51,000, while the general population has remained fairly stable, that means, Mohr explains, there's either a staggering increase in crime, or we're not doing what we need to do to reduce criminality and the amount of time people spend in prison, or some combination.Crime didn't increase significantly during Mohr's tenure, but the criminal code increased, and sentencing changed. Now we have more mandatory sentencing, which is a disincentive for inmates to engage in those programs that Latessa proved were beneficial in reducing the prison population. Add to this that politically it's popular to be tough on crime. Sentencing offenders to long jail time is more popular than pushing for rehabilitation. Listen to the conversation.

It's not intuitively obvious, but discarding DEI can result in even fewer medical professionals serving already underserved communities in rural Ohio. The Trump administration is doing its level best to eliminate DEI on the premise it fosters unlawful discrimination, but as Abraham Graber, Ph.D, points out, DEI promotes diversity and equity so as to achieve better outcomes, and that includes better outcomes in terms of getting more medical students interested in practicing medicine in rural Ohio. There's been a longstanding problem in rural Ohio suffering from inadequate healthcare. Some counties have just a handful of doctors. Some counties don't have a single doctor or hospital. What if you live in, say, Vinton County, and you need an oncologist? Well, like they say in the mob, “Fuggetaboutit.” You're pregnant and need prenatal care? Same thing.Who picks up the slack in these counties? EMT crews, but their services are only a stopgap.The absence of medical care for these communities means the people in these areas are not as healthy as those who live in metropolitan areas, and they have shorter life spans. To get more medical professionals in rural Ohio, we need a concerted recruiting program. And that means recruiting from the counties that are underserved, because the people who would want to practice in those counties will most likely come from those counties and not from the large metropolitan areas. And here's the challenge. If kids in those counties don't see doctors and don't see their friends becoming doctors, they'll never even think about becoming doctors. And for those few who might aspire to practice medicine, they likely don't have the same life experience or education as others and, thus, face barriers when tested and suffer from the negative stereotype many have about rural Americans. As Dr. Graber points out, if we want to start getting students in rural Ohio interested in and practicing medicine, we have to start thinking about how we find these young people. Focusing on test scores alone won't get us where we need to be. We need targeted recruiting, and that's DEI.

Bhuwan Pyakurel, a former refugee from Bhutan, resettled in the United States in 2009. He and his family moved to Ohio in 2014 and he became a U.S. citizen in 2015. They bought their first home in Reynoldsburg and immediately became involved in the community. Bhuwan and his wife, Dil, have been married for 14 years and they have two children, Aditi and Dev, both who attend Reynoldsburg Public Schools. Aditi loves reading and volunteers her time to raise funds to protect the environment. Dev loves sports and plays basketball and soccer, and enjoys skateboarding, karate, chess, and solving the Rubik's Cube. As a community leader, Bhuwan has worked with the Reynoldsburg Police Department and residents ever since he moved to the city. He believes education is the most important tool to bridge the gap and build trust between those in public safety and the community. Since 2015, Bhuwan has been a manager of interpretive services for Primary One Health, which operates 10 clinics in Central Ohio, and he also serves on the Board of the new Reynoldsburg YMCA. He has also served as President of the Bhutanese Community of Central Ohio (BCCO). For Ward 3 residents and all of Reynoldsburg, Bhuwan's plans include: helping keep Reynoldsburg residents safer by fixing sidewalks, roads and infrastructure and improving lighting, increasing the number of code enforcement officers in the City, boosting communications and transparency between City Council and citizens by using modern technologies, and making City government work better for the people of Reynoldsburg by holding regular town hall forums with constituents. Bhuwan, who has a Bachelor of Science degree from North Bengal University in India, and the City of Reynoldsburg made history in November 2019 when he became the first Bhutanese American to be elected to public office in the United States. After he and 120,000 fellow Bhutanese-Nepali's were forcibly pushed out of Bhutan and their civil, human and political rights stripped away, Bhuwan says he will “always be grateful to this nation for giving me a second chance to live my life and enjoy these freedoms in the greatest country in the world.” Bhuwan deeply values his American citizenship and its inalienable protected rights, and he now works to “pay it forward” and create new opportunities for the people of Reynoldsburg.

If the mob were doing what President Donald Trump is doing, we'd call it a shakedown. By way of several executive orders, he has accused some of the largest law firms in America of unlawful misconduct and, on his own, determined they violated the law and issued punishment. But if the firms capitulate to his demands, they won't be punished.Joining us in this discussion is our friend and fellow lawyer, Jim Meaney.The targeted firms are guilty of simply representing causes Trump can't stand and represent some of the largest businesses in America, many of which do business with the federal government. These firms are given a choice: either do legal work for free—for groups that Trump likes—or be barred from entering federal buildings and lose their security clearances, while the government terminates its contract with their clients. What's the misconduct? Trump accuses the Paul Weiss firm of engaging in “harmful activity,” Perkins Cioe firm of “dangerous and dishonest activity,” and Susman Godfrey of working to “degrade the quality of American elections.”What did Paul Weiss do? A partner in the firm brought suit against the individuals who stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Perkins Coie represented the 2016 Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, and Susman Godfrey represented Dominion Voting Systems in a defamation case against Fox Corp. What's going on here is part of a much bigger plan—a unified attack on everything Trump hates. He is attacking universities and free thought. He is attacking the judiciary by approving the idea of impeaching judges who have ruled against his immigration policies. He's dismantling multiple federal agencies. At last count, nine firms have capitulated and struck deals with Trump. Four have filed suit in federal court and attacked his executive orders and have been successful in the early stages of litigation. In street parlance, we have nine “cavers” and four “fighters.”The issue is, don't law firms have an obligation to see beyond themselves, to see beyond their own interest, and to see beyond their clients' interests when the system itself is at risk? Nine firms have said no. Four have said yes.

Almost 200,000 Franklin County residents experience poverty every year. That's enough to fill the Ohio State University football stadium twice. These residents face myriad challenges, among them: medical debt, lack of access to healthcare, adequate and affordable housing, and affordable childcare. Danielle Sidner, CEO of Rise Together Innovation Institute, explains that RISE is on a mission to harness the collective power of people and systems to overcome structural racism in Franklin County that contribute to poverty. RISE was created by the Franklin County Board of Commissioners and business and community stakeholders and seeks to achieve equity for everyone. Danielle talks with us about the challenges low-income residents face, but let's look at just one issue here: medical debt. Low-income residents are ham-strung by medical debt they can't afford to pay, and for fear of incurring more, they don't see a doctor when they need to, which means they end up having worse health outcomes. And, of course, not seeing a doctor can mean an illness, which means time away from work and the loss of employment. During the pandemic, we saw many organizations coming together and looking at innovative ways to relieve some of this debt. Locally, the Ohio Hospital Association in collaboration with the City of Columbus and some others, helped pay the medical debt of low-income residents and then forgave the debt. Based on a study by Kaiser Permanente, once individuals are relieved of that debt, they go back to the doctor and then live healthier lives. They can contribute to society in the way that we all desire. But the process of medical forgiveness is largely a function of nonprofits, and while it works well for a limited number of people, it's not a solution that remedies problems with our healthcare systemWant to learn more about RISE? Visit its website at https://www.rtiico.org/

President Trump has signed more executive orders in his first 10 days and in his first month in office than any recent president has in their first 100 days. Trump critics say the orders greatly exceed his constitutional authority.Those orders range from tariffs on Mexico, China and Canada, to pauses on foreign aid and crackdowns on illegal immigration to bans on transgender people serving in the military and the use of federal funds for gender-affirming medical care for minors.Court challenges to Trump's policies started on Inauguration Day and have continued at a furious pace since Jan. 20. The administration is facing some 70 lawsuits nationwide challenging his executive orders and moves to downsize the federal government.The Republican-controlled Congress is putting up little resistance, so the court system is ground zero for pushback. Judges have issued more than a dozen orders at least temporarily blocking aspects of Trump's agenda, ranging from an executive order to end U.S. citizenship extended automatically to people born in this country to giving Musk's team access to sensitive federal data.Executive Actions: 108, Executive Orders: 73, Proclamations: 23, Memorandums: 12Mark Brown, Constitutional Law expert and professor at Capital University Law School talks with us about the constitutionality of executive orders. Mark holds Capital's Newton D. Baker/Baker & Hostetler Chair. He joined the faculty in 2003 after having taught at Stetson University, the University of Illinois and The Ohio State University.Mark has authored and co-authored works in various books and academic journals, including the Boston College Law Review, the Cornell Law Review, the Hastings Law Journal, the Iowa Law Review, the University of Illinois Law Review, the Ohio State Law Journal, the American University Law Review, and the Oregon Law Review, as well as others. Prior to academia, Mark clerked for the Honorable Harry Wellford, Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. He also served as a Supreme Court Fellow under the Chief Justice of the United States during the 1993 October Term. Mark's research interests include Constitutional Law and Constitutional Litigation, courses he also teaches. He has also taught Civil Procedure, Administrative Law, Criminal Law, and Criminal Procedure. His public interest litigation presently focuses on public access to the political process.

Most Americans go to church expecting to hear about salvation, morality and scripture. They don't anticipate hardball political endorsements. But some churches thrive on delivering politics from the pulpit. Sure, pastors are citizens, too. And so in other venues, such as op-eds, blogs, books, and other places of influence, a pastor may speak his mind. Even so, he must jealously guard that influence and always speak winsomely. As a gospel minister, he shouldn't make politics more important than his pastoral duties. The tax code prevents religious institutions from serving as political machines, a concept in keeping with the separation of church and state our founding fathers envisioned. Pastors cannot make declarations to favor or oppose any candidate from the pulpit. They cannot take money from the collection plate and give it to support a candidate. And if they want to participate in any partisan activity in their personal capacity, they must make sure it is done in a manner indicating it is separate from their religious institution.The Rev. Dr. Timothy C. Ahrens began his ministry as Senior Minister of First Congregational Church, United Church of Christ in downtown Columbus on January 23, 2000. A church known for its witness to social justice since its birth as an abolitionist congregation in 1852, Rev. Ahrens is the fifth consecutive senior minister from Yale Divinity School and is a lifelong member of the United Church of Christ. Rev. Ahrens is a 1980 graduate of Macalester College with a double major in Religious Studies and Political Science. Since January 2000, under his leadership, First Church has doubled in membership during an era when seven downtown churches have closed their doors. Rev. Ahrens earned his Doctor of Ministry degree from Chicago Theological Seminary in May 2015. His thesis was entitled: “Young and Growing Stronger: Creating a Model of 21st Century Prophetic Witness Leaders with a New Generation.” He is currently working on two books.

The judicial system moves at glacial speed, and it isn't inclined to accept that it's flawed. Its shortcomings are most glaring with criminal cases. If a convicted person is able to come upon new evidence that wasn't available during the trial, no matter how significant the evidence may be, the process of getting a new trial is slow and doubtful. There's no guarantee a new trial will be granted. The first step is for the trial court judge to just agree to a hearing on whether a new trial is warranted. And judges have the discretion to deny that hearing. Shouldn't it be mandatory that a hearing on new evidence be granted?Former Ohio Supreme Court Justice Michael Donnelly has been an advocate for improving the system. He questions why prosecutors oppose a mandatory hearing. “They should welcome legislation like this because if the claim doesn't have any merit, they can demonstrate that at the hearing. So it's not something that should be feared.” Justice Donnelly also advocates a more transparent approach to plea agreements. Generally, these discussions are held with the attorneys and the judge in the judge's chambers. No record is made, and the judge is not bound by anything agreed to by the attorneys. So, while the attorneys may think they reached an agreement on sentencing and that the judge is onboard with their agreement, the judge can award something completely different at the sentencing hearing. Perhaps worse is the disparity that exists in sentencing. “With the same lawyers and the same facts, you can conduct a sentencing hearing and walk out with an outcome of probation,” Justice Donnelly explains. “You could take those same lawyers and walk 15 feet across the hall in front of another judge, do it again, and have an outcome of 30, 40, 50 years in prison. And that's just a fact.”

Two hours before Franklin County Commissioner Kevin Boyce was to be the keynote speaker at the Columbus VA annual MLK lunch, an organizer told Mr. Boyce he could not mention DEI topics or anything deemed "politically charged" due to President Donald Trump's executive orders limiting DEI in the federal government. Unwilling to compromise his values, Kevin withdrew from the event.“It was an insult to demand that I restrict my comments to not include equity and inclusion, I can't separate diversity from the memory of Dr. King,” Kevin Boyce believes that the opposite of poverty is justice. With funding provided by Franklin County Board of Commissioners and the City of Columbus, the Rise Together Innovation Institute is on a mission to harness the collective power of people and systems to disrupt structural racism and issues of poverty. Kevin's father was killed when he was just 7 years old. He credits his mother and grandmother for inspiring his success – and thanks teachers, coaches and his grandmother for convincing a judge to give him a stern warning, not time in juvenile detention, after a street fight landed him in court. He was 16. The brawl began with Kevin defending a bullied friend but ended with a charge of aggravated rioting. His unblemished record, accolades from teachers and coaches and a heart-felt letter from grandmother, resulted in a second chance.Today, Kevin's oldest son attends Brown University on a scholarship. “When I think that I grew up in a house that didn't always have electricity or running water, and now I have a son attending an Ivy League school, I hope I can use my abilities to help other kids get the opportunities they need to succeed,'' he said.Kevin became the first in his family to earn a college degree – a bachelor's degree from the University of Toledo. It's there he met political science professor Jack Ford, who would later serve as minority leader of the Ohio House of Representatives. Seeing Kevin's affinity for public policy and passion to improve his community, Ford talked Kevin into coming to Columbus with him. He eventually rose to become Ford's chief of staff.

There's an old English song, “It's the rich what gets the pleasure. It's the poor what gets the pain.” The song holds true today. We talk with Bill LaFayette, the owner of Regionomics, about the expanding wealth gap in America.In 1980, the income of one percent of Americans was 23 times that of the other 90%. In 2022, the income of the top one percent was 69 times the income of the bottom 90%. In 1965, CEO compensation at the 350 largest publicly traded firms was 21 times the typical worker's compensation. In 2023, CEO compensation was 290 times a typical worker's compensation. Some of the big differences between then and now was a much higher tax rate and more economic regulation. And then, things changed. Big business argued it was being hamstrung by regulations and persuaded Congress to loosen those regulations. Plus, we saw the birth of the trickledown theory, which benefitted the wealthy and did nothing for those of low income. The rich got richer, and the poor got left behind.Contributing to wealth inequality is the legacy left by discrimination. Low-income neighborhoods, largely populated by minorities, were redlined by banks, making it impossible to buy homes and accumulate wealth. Though redlining was declared unlawful in the 1960s, its vestiges remain. The neighborhoods that were subjected to redlining are often the same neighborhoods that remain impoverished today. Politicians don't help. They're influenced by those who can write checks, a luxury well beyond those at the bottom of the economic ladder. Adding to the problem: low-income workers are often maligned as either lazy or living off the government dole, when, in reality, many are disadvantaged because of their zip code; they live in neighborhoods that lack resources, opportunities, safety and other benefits most of take for granted. Listen to our conversation with Bill LaFayette.

With billionaires like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos circling in President Trump's orbit, we are witnessing a new age of extremely wealthy business owners seeking to expand their influence on the government. The robbers barons of the late 19th century—JP Morgan, Cornelius Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie—had nothing on these fellows. As we moved into the mid-20th century, the wealthy wanted to hide their wealth—as if they were like everyone else. When Fortune magazine first published its list of the wealthiest Americans in the 1970s, the people listed weren't happy about it. They wanted that information kept private. Things are different now. Society, it seems, is on a new wave of revering people of great wealth, and wealth is seen as an indicator of wisdom and intellect, and men like Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy act as if they know everything, even when it comes to running the federal government. But the difference between running a business and running the government is huge. With a business, there is one goal: profitability. With government comes the obligation of doing the greatest good for the greatest number of people. It's rare to see a business person who can make that kind of transition. Men like Musk and tech moguls Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen exhibit a libertarian ideology. They seem to think they don't owe anything to anybody, never mind how they may have made their money or who helped them get their start. And they don't want to be hampered in any way in how they do business, and so they resent government interference.These titans of business are poised to exert their influence in ways we haven't seen before. Just take a look at who was seated closest to President Trump during his second inauguration. Listen to our conversation with Steve Conn, professor of history at Miami University.

Are immigrants a drain on society, or does America benefit from their presence? It's a hot topic, with Republic politicians telling lies during the last election about Haitians in Springfield eating dogs and cats—and telling these stories solely for the purpose of political gain. What was really stunning is that those lies resonated with some number of people, and Haitians were threatened with violence. We talk with Flannery Rokey-Jackson of Community Refugee & Immigration Services here in Columbus, Ohio, about two classes of immigrants. Because of the crisis in Haiti, the Haitians were granted temporary protection status by the U.S. government. Other immigrants have fled their homes because of race, religion, nationality, membership in certain social groups, or political opinion, and have met the criteria set by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees to merit refugee status. Whether we're talking about temporary protected status or refugees, these are people who want to integrate into society, educate their children and become productive citizens. Here's a snippet of the conversation with Flannery:“So first, your first question about criminality, I've personally never experienced. Helping a family resettle here and then seeing them turn to any kind of crime, especially with refugees who … are required to apply for their green card after one year in the United States, and if they are commit any kind of crime, even a misdemeanor, that could jeopardize that ability to get their green card.“So, I have worked with families who won't even jaywalk across the street with me because they don't want to break the law. They're also so excited to start their new lives, and to join the workforce, get jobs, go to school, and become contributing members of society. “And of course, we see refugees using benefits more earlier on in their resettlement and then once they're, you know, 10 years after resettlement, they are paying back into the system quite significantly.”

Do police officers get it right more often than not when it comes to shooting a suspected threat? Are police trained adequately in terms of simulated scenarios and stressful situations? Are small police departments able to access the same level of training as police departments in large metropolitan areas? Do people suspected of a crime, who fail to comply with police commands, bear responsibility for being shot?We talk with retired police officer Bob Meader, who served as a commander at the Columbus Police Academy, about the challenges that come with police work. As Bob puts it, how many skills do you need to have to play a certain sport versus how many skills a law enforcement officer must have? Officers are tasked with dealing with myriad situations, ranging from intervening in an emotional domestic dispute to stopping an armed robbery in a convenience store.And then there's the matter of stress… “You have the epinephrine dump, the heart becomes quicker, the breathing becomes more shallow, the pupils become constricted, and what goes is your finite motor skills, which you need to hit that target 50 feet away.” That's a different situation than just shooting at paper targets.” Bob calls police work “the hardest job in America, and everything officers are doing today is recorded, and then guys like you and me get to sit in a temperature controlled office and hit rewind.” Complexities of the job aside, there are shootings where you scratch your head and say, “What in the world was that cop thinking? I didn't see anything close to a threat.” Sure, officers face prosecutions for bad shootings and incarceration, but still we're left with someone dead who shouldn't be dead. And these are the stories that make the news.Do we judge police shootings fairly? Do we expect too much? Do we give officers more deference than we should. Listen to the conversation.

Guessing the outcomes of cases brought before the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) can be challenging, and, sometimes, the court's decisions leave you scratching your head. Jack and Gonzo discuss our current court's propensity to rule in favor of popular conservative causes. If the casinos in Vegas took bets on how SCOTUS were to decide a case, the odds makers probably wouldn't give long odds, because you pretty much know how the justices will rule by their political affiliation. Oh, sure, the justices are supposed to look at each case objectively, but we're all subject to subliminal inclinations and beliefs that guide us. Even the justices.Jack and Gonzo take a look at two cases to explain. The first concerns Marcellus Williams, a black man of humble means, who was convicted of murder. His attorney asked SCOTUS to stay Williams' execution (legal speak, for temporarily stopping the execution) because of multiple problems with the case. It wasn't a matter of asking the court to overturn Williams' conviction, just a pause. SCOTUS was asked to intervene so as to avoid the very real possibility that the state of Missouri might execute an innocent man. Even the prosecuting attorney for the county where Williams was convicted was advocating for a stay, and the family of the person who was murdered stated that Williams should not be executed.But a majority of justices (all appointed by Republican presidents) couldn't be bothered and didn't grant the stay. And Williams was executed.The second case concerns how SCOTUS handled the Trump immunity case. With nothing in the constitution about presidential immunity—literally, not a single word or even an inference about immunity—the court held that presidents have immunity for just about everything they do. Respected constitutional lawyers were stunned. The court couldn't be bothered to stay the execution of a black man who grew up in an impoverished and dysfunctional household, but the court went out of its way to protect a man of privilege. The two cases really make you question where the court is.

Does the First Amendment give us the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater? No, and this is one of the very few restrictions on free speech in America. Jack and Gonzo discuss the importance of free speech with Nico Perrino, Executive Vice President of FIRE. Founded in 1999 as the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, FIRE has worked to advance the cause of free speech and the values of the First Amendment at our nation's colleges and universities. In 2022, FIRE changed its name to the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression to reflect its broader effort to protect and promote these values off campus as well. FIRE educates Americans about the importance of free speech and promotes a culture of respect for this right and provides the means to preserve it. FIRE's mission is to defend and sustain the individual rights of all Americans to free speech and free thought—the most essential qualities of liberty. FIRE recognizes that colleges and universities play a vital role in preserving free thought within a free society. To this end, FIRE places a special emphasis on defending the individual rights of students and faculty members on our campuses, including freedom of speech, freedom of association, due process, legal equality, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience. In 2023, FIRE's Policy Reform team won 43 victories at 22 schools affecting more than 215,000 students.Our guest, Nico Perrino, was Co-Director and Senior Producer of “Mighty Ira” (2020), a feature-length film about the life and career of former ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser. He also worked as a consultant on “Can We Take a Joke?” (2015) and "The Coddling of the American Mind" (2024). Listen to our conversation with Nico and for more information, visit FIRE | Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (thefire.org).

Lawyers know how difficult it can be to represent a client with developmental disabilities and how ill equipped our justice system is to protect them. Our guest, McCracken Poston, Jr., is a practicing criminal defense attorney and former member of the Georgia House of Representatives. He just published his new book “Zenith Man: death, love and redemption in a Georgia courtroom,” the true story behind a controversial and unusual murder case.McCracken's client, Alvin Ridley, who suffers from autism, was charged with murdering his wife in the late 1990s, only to be found innocent thanks to overlooked, peculiar evidence and the persistent efforts of his lawyer. Decades later, McCracken is retelling the story as a warning about prejudice, a rush to judgment, and how Americans who are different can be swept up unfairly in our justice system.

Ever think about the social determinants of health? At the top of the list: zip codes. Neighborhoods can differ dramatically in terms of safety, education, housing, green space, grocery stores, etc. When you lack these things—a world where options are limited—stress sets in, and the sole focus is just getting through each day; there's no planning for the future. It shouldn't be a surprise that good things happen when inner-city single moms and their children are given assistance in relocating to affluent suburbs. Listen to the conversation we have with Amy Klaben, president of Families Flourish, and Dr. Howard Levitin.

The U.S. Supreme Court has been in the news lately and not because of its popularity. The court's recent decisions reflect more ideology than neutral analysis and a disregard for the ramifications of those decisions. Certain decisions are not supported by the text of the Constitution, even though some of the justices regard themselves as “textualists.” Some justices display an arrogance that is disquieting. How did we get here? Let's remember, the justices were confirmed by a senate that is largely dysfunctional because of its own partisanship. Listen to what Jack and Gonzo have to say.

Patriotic Millionaires is a group of high-net-worth Americans who are committed to making all Americans, including themselves, better off by building a more prosperous, stable, and inclusive nation. The group focuses on promoting public policy solutions that encourage political equality, guarantee a sustaining wage for working Americans, and ensure that millionaires, billionaires, and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. Listen to our conversation with Morris Pearl, former managing director of the investment firm BlackRock, who serves as the chair of Patriotic Millionaires.

Dr. James, an OB/GYN and pediatrician, has spent his professional life trying to achieve equality in birth outcomes. Everyone should receive equal medical care, but that'snot the case in America. According to the Centers for Disease Control's latest report on infant mortallity, babies born to Black women have teh hightest mortality rate. In addition, Black mothers report they aren't treated as well as white women by medical professionals.Dr. James explains that achieving equity will require at least three things: (1) respecting all individuals and populations the same, (2) recognizing and rectifying past historical injustices, and (3) taking a targeted or proportionate universal approach; providing the most assistance to the groups experiencing the worst outcomes. A race-neutral approach will not result in achieving equity. This means we must improve the maternal and infant mortality rates for Blacks and other minorities at a faster pace while working to improve those rates for other groups, without slowing down our efforts to achieve the best birth outcomes for everyone. Listen to our conversation with Dr. James.

Everyone regards humility as a virtue, but how many of us appreciate its importance or, more importantly, how the absence of humility impedes societal discourse and hurts personal relationships. When we allow overconfidence bias and the Dunning-Kruger effect to control us, we are far too quick to offer opinions, no matter how little we might know, and refuse to listen. It's as if we're spring-loaded to spouting an opinion and defending it, not matter how little we might know. The result: we spend much time arguing about things that may not be true and trying to convince others how wrong they are. Instead of seeking to learn from the other and figuring out a solution, we focus on suppressing the other person's point of view. And with this comes resentment, distance, a breakdown in personal and professional relationships and ineffective government.Richard Rohr said it best: “Those who know, know they don't know.” Listen to what Jack and Gonzo have to say.

Where do teens in Central Ohio turn when they are scared and feel alone? A teen might have been booted from home after disclosing he's gay. Sometimes parents are evicted and want a safe place for their daughter to stay. Anger, depression, mood disorders and myriad other problems drive teens to a dark place where they feel alone. Huckleberry House provides safety for teens in crisis. No matter the issue, teens receive shelter, counseling, compassion and hope. Listen to our conversation with Sonya Thesing, executive director of Huckleberry House.

Imagine life in Vinton County, Ohio—13,000 people spread across 450 square miles, with little in the way of resources. No Kroger, Giant Eagle or other big box stores, only Family Dollar and Dollar General stores. No emergency medical center. Just one health center with a single dentist who's booked six to nine months out, and one or two primary care physicians. No behavioral care physician, no obstetrician, no optometrist. Why not solve the problem with telemedicine? Because much of the county doesn't have sufficient internet, and many people can't afford a laptop. The residents earn just enough to not qualify for Medicaid but not enough to be self-sufficient. Somehow, these people—endowed with resilience and grit—get by and largely because of a county health department that advocates for them. Margaret Demko, the county's Family & Children First Coordinator and Help Me Grow program manager talks with us about how she identifies needs and then finds ways to provide the means to address those needs. It's not easy work. Listen to what it takes to provide public health care in a county that has little.

There's a little-known truth: public health saved your life today and you probably don't even know it. Public health makes our lives safer and helps us live longer, but its many successes largely go unrecognized. No small wonder it's called “the invisibleshield” in a PBS documentary that aired last month. Former Director of the Ohio Department of Health, Amy Acton, M.D., discusses the important role Public Health plays in our lives. But underfunding and lack of public awareness are constant challenges. With Dr. Acton's foresight, Ohio got through the Covid-19 pandemic, while politicians wanted to deny what science called for, which heightened the dangers brought by the disease. The question is, will we be ready for the next challenge?

Should the minimum wage pay enough so that workers can be self-sufficient? If not, why not? Large employers, like Walmart and Kroger, pay wages that exceed Ohio's minimum wage but yet barely keep a person above the federal poverty level. Isn't there a conflict between capitalism and society's obligation to protect the most vulnerable workers? Listen to our conversation with Bill LaFayette, owner of local consulting firm, Regionomics.

The terms “evangelical” and “Christian” have been co-opted by conservatives to push their political agenda. For this group, Christianity is less a means for spiritual enrichment and more a means to steer an ideology, as evidenced by the Seven Mountain Mandate, which urges Christians to take control of seven components of society. Instead of promoting social justice, respecting the dignity of every human being and seeing Christ in all people, the evangelicals use Christianity—and what they espouse as Christianity is far afield from the New Testament—in a coercive way to get what they want. Listen to our conversation with Rev. Vicki Zust, rector of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Upper Arlington, Ohio.

Why is it we see a wave of people demanding that certain books to be banned? Are these folks voicing their own personal objections based on their own reading, or are they voicing a philosophical bent based on what they're heard about books? And how is that parents who object to a certain book for their children want the book to be banned for all children? Since when do parents get to decide what's best for someone else's children?Donna M. Zuiderweg, chief community engagement officer for the Columbus Metropolitan Library, explains the process libraries use to select books and decide where to shelve them and how challenges can be made. She reminds us just how valuable a resource our library system is and how important it is to maintain it.

When your options are limited, selling drugs is the answer. Our guest, Buddy, grew up in a low income, high crime Cincinnati neighborhood, with four siblings and a single mom who earned a modest wage. Selling drugs was the answer to getting what he needed—clothes, cash, security. Buddy started out by counting cash for established dealers and by 16 was running his own enterprise. And then at age 21, it came to an end. A competing drug seller told the police what was needed to send Buddy to prison for 30 years. After thinking about life for the first 20 years, Buddy obtained a GED, studied technical courses, and aligned himself with Kindway, a prison ministry that helps inmates transition to life outside the walls. Released in 2023, Buddy says with joy, “I paid for my sins” and is gainfully employed. Buddy may earn less than he did back in the day, but he's at peace.

Why is it that elected officials can't draw fair legislative election maps? Despite state constitutional amendments for redistricting reform approved by Ohio voters in 2015 and 2018, Ohio remains heavily gerrymandered because politicians disregarded the mandate they were given. Former Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court Maureen O'Connor struck down as unconstitutional multiple proposed maps. Now as part of Citizens Not Politicians, O'Connor is leading the effort to place a constitutional amendment on this year's ballot. If the amendment is approved, a commission of 15 citizens—not politicians or anyone politically connected—will be created to handle the matter of drawing legislative districts.O'Connor explains why the 2024 proposed amendment will be the most important issue on the ballot for Ohioans, perhaps even more than who becomes president.

In theory, juvenile detention centers are places where kids who have committed felonies are helped with their criminal tendencies and behavioral needs, but we're hearing more about violence than anything else. These are high need kids. Many have suffered trauma—family members murdered, abuse, neglect. Plus, they're kids; their brains aren't fully developed. Adding to the problem, Ohio's Department of Youth Services can't fill all the openings it has for correctional officers, behavioral specialists and teachers. The system isn't working. Listen to what award-winning journalist Laura Bischoff learned from her investigation.

What makes journalists risk their lives in war zones or imprisonment by autocratic governments? Award-winning psychiatrist Anthony Feinstein offers his expert perspective on the moral courage investigative journalists exhibit and the post-traumatic stress they suffer. Listen to what Dr. Feinstein, author of Moral Courage: 19 Profiles of Investigative Journalists, has learned from treating journalists and studying their trauma.

You might think being a good dad is something that comes naturally, but you would be wrong. Fatherhood has to be learned, and too many men from low-income neighborhoods, where crime rates are high and stable marriages are few, never learn how to be dads. Many kids grow up without the stability of a caring family and good role models; all some kids learn is survival. David Fluellen tells us what his non-profit, Dads2B, does to teach men the kind of things they never learned, like getting involved in their partners' prenatal care and listening to their partners' needs, and then helps these men find meaningful work so they can support their children. Listen to the conversation.

The big issues on the ballot in Ohio this November 7 are Issues 1 and 2. Both will likely make the national news.Jack and Gonzo discuss the proposed constitutional amendment protecting a woman's right to have an abortion, and the citizen initiative proposing a statue to legalize recreational marijuana. Why are these issues on the ballot, and what are the pros and cons being advanced by special interest groups? Listen to the conversation

Rachel Muha did what few of us could ever do: she forgave the two men who murdered her son, Brian, in 1999. After she was alerted by the police that Brian was missing, Rachel started to pray and decided that she had to muster up the strength to forgive the men who had abducted Brian. It wasn't until days later that Brian's body was recovered, and even after learning that Brian had been murdered, Rachel extended forgiveness to his killers.Rachel explains that forgiveness is a refusal to harbor ill will, anger and bitterness. It is an act of will that requires determination and the only way to achieve inner peace. For Rachel, justice is not a matter of exacting vengeance. Yes, the killers had to be held accountable, but justice for Rachel means trying to bring back the goodness that was lost when Brian's life was taken, and she does that by helping inner-city children get the attention and love and support that Brian's killers never had. And so Rachel started the Brian Muha Foundation, based in Columbus, Ohio.Listen to the conversation between Rachel.

Is columnist David Rothfopf right—Trump losing in court won't be enough to save democracy? There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of the future of democracy—gerrymandering, election finance, voter suppression, and politicians who will change the rules to achieve their goals. The recent campaign to amend Ohio's constitution, Issue 1, is an example of politicians doing just that. Maybe people don't want to live in a democracy. They want what they want and don't care how they get it. Manipulating the system to achieve a goal is an acceptable strategy—do anything necessary to defeat the majority view. The proponents behind Issue 1—those who favor gerrymandering, gun right zealots and the anti-abortion groups—were willing change the rules to get what they want.Listen to the conversation between Jack and Gonzo.

What's the purpose of our criminal justice system? Retribution or restoration? When we examine the system, we see racial disparities in sentencing and little effort to understand what caused an offender to engage in criminal activity. Being “tough on crime” is a popular slogan with politicians. Sentencing is conducted with little concern for the backstory of the offender. The system fails miserably when it comes to rehabilitation. Listen to our conversation with Sean Wilson, the Organizing Director of Dream.Org, who has 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system.

We continue our conversation with activist Jon Melrod about his efforts in opposing racism, organizing rallies against the Vietnam War and activism in favor of unions.

How often does a veteran white revolutionary author a book in which he describes a lifetime committed to waging war on white supremacy and misogyny? These two political struggles have been the focus of Jon Melrod's organizing efforts since the 1960s. In his recently released book, Fighting Times: Organizing on the Front Lines of the Class War, Jon traces in a lively and humorous fashion his often dangerous life of political activism and the brutal realities of sexism and racism in the American workplace. Listen to our conversation with Jon.

We continue our conversation with Paul Sparks about the keys for success in transitioning from prison life to life outside the walls. Even then, there are risks—getting into relationships too soon, drug and alcohol abuse, and financial issues—that can lead to a return to prison. Paul explains why Embark minimizes the chances of that happening.

Transitioning from prison life to life outside the walls takes work. Columbus-based Kindway provides a path—the Embark program—for motivated men and women inmates to start the transition process well before they are released from prison. Paul Sparks, the men's transition manager for Kindway, knows a thing or two about transitioning. He was incarcerated four times years and spent 13 years inside the walls. Getting connected with Embark is what made the difference for him. Listen to our conversation with Paul.

In a special election set for this August, Republicans in the Ohio statehouse and three special interest groups are advocating a change to the state constitution that can only be considered anti-democratic: future amendments will require a 60 percent vote. This amendment is all about suppressing the power of citizens who are pro-choice, against gerrymandering and in favor of gun control. Never concerned about hypocrisy, the Republican-controlled Ohio statehouse earlier this year banned August special elections because of the expense and low turnout. Now, all of sudden, an August special election is a good idea. Why? Because the proposed amendment will supposedly make it harder for special interest groups to get constitutional amendments passed. But the Ohio constitution was amended in 2015 to take care of that problem.

Is the recent wave of legislation concerning trans children focused on preventing harms or a way for politicians to prove their conservative bona fides? Take a look at these bills, and you'll see it's the latter. What's stunning is that these bills—Ohio House Bill 8, House Bill 68 and House Bill 183—concern a small percentage of the population. Even more stunning is that these bills are supposedly designed to protect straight students but actually put LGBTQ children at risk. Listen to our conversation with Mallory Golski and Lalitha Pamidigantam.

Is the Ohio constitutional mandate that government provide for “a thorough and efficient system of common schools” at risk because of the EdChoice voucher system? When it was started, EdChoice, which is funded by state revenue, was available only to students who attended lower performing public schools. Now the program is tied to income. Any family earning up to 250% of the federal poverty level ($75,000 for a family of four) is eligible, and there is a proposal to make EdChoice available for families earning up to 450% of the federal poverty level ($130,000 for a family of four), and another that proposes to eliminate any income limits. Is public education at risk? Listen to our conversation with Mark Weiker.

The creation of charter schools, also known as community schools, in Ohio is an experiment that has cost Ohioans billions and has provided little educational improvement for its students. Charter schools began as an experiment to provide more varied learning opportunities, but the experiment has not fared well due to the schools' flawed administrative structure. Our guest, Mark Weiker, explains why the experiment has not provided consistently good results.

People lie out of self-preservation—think Pete Rose lying about not betting on baseball—or to promote a political goal—President George W. Bush's administration stating Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, when he didn't. Besides lying, people often talk about things as if they know with certainty what they're talking about, when, in reality, they're just guessing. Why do people, mostly politicians it seems, behave this way? Because it works. Regardless of whether false statements are made knowingly or not, too many people rely on a speakers' veracity and don't bother to doublecheck what they hear. The result: people get duped. Spreading falsehoods is a divisive business and undermines the nation's unity. Listen to the conversation between Jack and Gonzo.

Ohio state Senator Jerry Cirino says he sponsored Senate Bill 83 because he wants students to be taught how to think, not what to think. The bill speaks about advancing free and open discussion, but when you read the bill, you see that Cirino and other state legislators want to control what can be taught. It's frightening and likely inconsistent with our state's constitution. Listen to the conversation between Jack and Gonzo.

When teachers believe a student suffers from abuse or neglect, they have to submit a report to a public children services agency or the police, but what obligation do teachers have when children talk to them in confidence about gender dysphoria? Are teachers allowed to keep this kind of information confidential? Attorney Josh Brown believes teachers should be required to tell parents about gender dysphoria. The law isn't clear. Listen to our conversation with Josh.

Mike Gonidakis and Ohio Right to Life see abortion as a black and white issue. Every fetus deserves to be born. Period. But many Ohioans see it differently. There's the matter of a woman's right to autonomy over her body. There are economic and family problems that push women to abort. And low income women especially are affected by an abortion ban. It all comes down to an individual's moral stance, doesn't it? And if that's true, then why should the government get involved?Listen to our conversation with Mike.

Christian nationalism speaks to a declaration of war against the enemies of God, but it is far removed from both Christianity and patriotism, and it's sweeping the nation. We talk with Rev. Tim Ahrens about a divisive ideology that advocates a single acceptable point of view and hatred of anyone who is different and speaks of Jesus but fails to follow his example. Listen to our conversation about a movement that is both frightening and a threat to the nation.

After a career in health care and raising a family in Georgia, Connie Cheren decided to take up the challenge of providing health care services in Kenya, but she had no clue how to get started. So, she just said yes to the idea and then figured things out. Now, thousands of Kenyans benefit from safe water programs, mobility carts, computer schools and medical clinics. What's at the heart of Connie's approach? Listening. Listening to the people and together developing with them programs that improve lives. Listen to our conversation with Connie about Partners for Care.

Ohio lawmakers want to prohibit gender affirming care for children who are trans. Never mind what physicians, social workers and teachers might have to say about the needs of  trans kids, lawmakers think they know better. Instead of focusing on the care trans kids needs, lawmakers fixate on problems that don't exist. Our guest, Melissa McLaren, has a teenage child, Connor, who was born a boy but has identified as a girl from age 3 or so. Melissa explains the challenges that come when a child identifies with a gender that doesn't match the child's sex assigned at birth and the depression and anxiety that arise if a trans child doesn't feel safe and secure. Without that safety and security, a child won't thrive and learn. Melissa puts it well. “I'm really tired of legislative bodies trying to legislate bodies.”