Podcasts about kyogen

In a lineage tradition like Zen, your understanding, manifestation, and expression of the Dharma is deeply influenced by your teachers, and by their teachers. Whether you are a member of my Zen Center, Bright Way Zen, or a fan of this podcast, you may appreciate stories of my teachers Kyogen and Gyokuko Carlson in this live talk.* (*Most of my episodes are produced specifically for podcast listeners, but I am on sabbatical in August.) 

Kyogen presents a dilemma. How can a man hanging by his teeth from a tree answer a question about Bodhidharma's coming from the west? If he opens his mouth to speak he'll fall to his death, if he remains silent he fails the questioner. When to remain silent, when to speak, and what to say can be life koans. Words are never sufficient, but they are called for at times. How can we respond authentically?Automated transcript:https://otter.ai/u/6o9lfo-XDbzXGG5SqAFMOprHRwI

This book is a treasure in that it collects in one place the essential subjects and themes of Kyogen Carlson's teaching, which remains faithful to his Soto Zen lineage through Roshi Jiyu Kennett but reflects Kyogen's ability to express the Dharma in a down-to-earth, inviting, but nonetheless challenging way.

Intro: Final Draft is conspiring against us, Beastie Boys' Adam Horowitz, Doris the dog loves the vet, Jim Croce, The Cure. Let Me Run This By You: storytelling, Risk Podcast, The MothInterview: We talk to the creator and producer of You're Being Ridiculous, Jeremy Owens, about offending people, porn, Samantha Irby, Roosevelt University, University of Arkansas, The URTAs, King Lear, Greg Vinkler, Barbara Gaines, Plautus' The Rope, P.F. Changs, Kyogen, Threepenny Opera, Steppenwolf, Brene Brown, Marianne Williamson.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.3 (15s):At 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):Yeah.1 (35s):It was one of these things where it's like, final draft will not let you restart your computer. I'm like, fuck you. Final draft. What did you ever do for me? Final draft writer, duet. They're all, they're all plotting against me,2 (47s):But what is, what is, what does final draft have to do with your camera working on this?1 (53s):So in order to, to be okay, the bottom line is I need a new computer. Okay. Let's start there second. Okay. That's the first level of problems. It's like the deepest level. And then we, if we go up a little bit into the level of problems, it is that final draft that I might camera in order to use my camera. Sometimes I have to restart my computer because it's so old. Right. So I need to restart,2 (1m 19s):You know, I want to do any one thing in the morning I got, are really rev my engine.1 (1m 26s):So like, I'm like, okay, well, in order to restart the computer, it's like not letting me restart it because final draft is this because probably final draft is so advanced and my computer is so Jack.2 (1m 39s):Totally. And that's how they get you mad. I feel like they all conspired to be like, okay, well let's make it. So this will work on this version. So then,1 (1m 49s):So anyway, I see you, you look great. I look like shit. So it's probably better my camera's up.2 (1m 57s):So a couple of things I keep forgetting to ask you on here, about how, how did it come to be that you were chatting in the parking lot with Adam Horowitz about your dogs, Volvo.1 (2m 12s):We never talked about that.2 (2m 14s):We did not.1 (2m 15s):Okay. So I rule up, so my dog, Doris, who everyone knows that listens to the podcast and by everyone, I mean, whoever listens to the podcast, you know what I mean? So hopefully it's growing and growing, listen and rate the podcast. Anyway, the point is I roll up to the vet, which I do oh about every other week, because my dog is a very high maintenance. And so she's just so she of course had an ear infection. Cause she has these huge ears that collect all this bacteria. So I roll up and there's an eye and because it's COVID and everything, you have to park outside and wait, but because it's LA all the windows are down and everyone's car and there's this dude sitting in his Kia has electric Kia.1 (2m 59s):Well,2 (2m 59s):My key.1 (3m 0s):Yeah, I know. I know. I did not recognize this human being. He looked like my husband, like fifties gray, maybe had glasses on.2 (3m 13s):Why would you like all our knowledge of them is when they were so, so young. Right,1 (3m 18s):Right. So young. And I like didn't, you know, keep up with the beast. So it was like, I had other things to do, you know? So I was doing other things. So I'm, I'm like trying to corral Doris out of the car. She's crazy. She's trying to get out. She loves the vet. The backdrop is my dog2 (3m 35s):Loves the,1 (3m 36s):Oh my God. She races towards the vet with a fury that is unmatched, loves it. I2 (3m 43s):Never once heard of this in my entire life. So1 (3m 45s):She's really, really excited about the bet. So she's an extra crazy. And I get her out of the carrier to let her sniff around in the parking lot. And I see this gentleman who is the interesting thing about him is that his leg is out the window. Like he's like resting his leg. And I'm like, well, that's kind of weird for like an older dude, but whatever, it's, it's LA like, you know2 (4m 8s):That sound's going to say, I imagine that kind of thing happens in LA.1 (4m 11s):Yeah. And plus he's probably weighed been waiting and waiting for his dog forever. And so, cause you, you have to wait out there, like they don't want you to leave in case they need you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, fine. So I, and I say, and he says, oh, a cute dog. And I'm like, oh, she's a pain in the ass. And then he's like, what's her name? And I'm like, oh, her name is Doris. And he's like, oh, that was my mom's name. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then we talked about the origin of Doris, cause it's from a Jim Croce song. And Jim Croce is someone, my husband adores the singer. The folks there yeah. Died when he was 29. Looked like he was about 60. When he died.2 (4m 47s):He was 29.1 (4m 49s):Yes. You know, he looks like David Abbott, Holly, if you ever look at me2 (4m 56s):Like a hole, I see it.1 (4m 59s):But just bringing it back to the old theater school. So, so yeah. And so he's like, we talked about Jim Croce and he's like, Jim Croce is the first person I remember dying. I had that album. And I said, yeah. And he said, that's in a Jim Croce song. And I said, yes, Leroy brown, Friday about a week ago, Leroy shooting dice. And at the end of the bar sat a girl named Doris and who that girl looked nice. And that's why we named Doris Doris. He was like, I don't remember Doris being in that song. So we get into that. Right. Okay. And then he's like, I'm like, oh, is your dog okay? And he's like, well, she, she, she got a cut on her neck and I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, is that2 (5m 38s):A knife fight in a bar?1 (5m 39s):I was like, how did that happen? And he goes, I don't know. But like, you know, since I'm not a doctor, I figured I'd take, bring her to the vet. I'm like good plan, my friend, good plan. So he's like, I'm waiting for him and waiting for her. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he said, what's wrong with your dog? And I said, oh my God, what? Isn't wrong with my dog? And I said, my dog has a dermatitis of the vulva and an ear infection. And he's like, wait, what? And I'm like, yes, she just she's out. She's got a lot of allergies because she's a friend. She and I did this to myself by getting a friendship. But like, yeah, she's got, and he said that his dog was really licking her butthole and he had dermatitis of the bottle. And I was like, it's the same I heard of my friend, Morgan has a Frenchie who has dermatitis of the butthole because all Frenchie owners talk about these things.1 (6m 26s):And he's like, oh, well, my dog has dermatitis of the bottle. I'm like, well, mine's got dermatitis of the Volvo. They both have, they both have like private parts itching. Right. And so then we started talking and we talked about a lot of things. Cause you have to wait forever. And then right. And so we talk and talk and talk and no clue who this person is. And he's like,2 (6m 47s):Did you say cut? There's something about that voice?1 (6m 52s):No.2 (6m 52s):No. Okay.1 (6m 54s):'cause he was kinda mumbly and also just looked so natural.2 (6m 60s):Aiming, sabotage.1 (7m 1s):No, not screaming and also not jumping around with his other two cohort. And then I just, I felt like, anyway, it just didn't cross my mind. And his shoelaces were untied. I don't know. It was like a real casual situation.2 (7m 15s):Yeah. Honestly, I would never assume somebody in a key is famous. That's my snobbery, but I wouldn't.1 (7m 21s):Yeah. I mean, I, it was a very, very, very nice camp, but it still, it was a key I said to you like, oh, that was her talking about cars. I mean, we talked about kids, cars, Manhattan. Then he said, I'm from it. I said, oh, I'm from Chicago. And he said, I'm from Manhattan. And I said, oh, I said, oh my God. I launched into this thing about how I could never live in New York because I was like to own like the most unhip like fat and ugly human and like, not in a bad way, but just like, kind of like I'm. So I just feel like, I didn't know what the fuck was going on ever in New York. Like, I didn't know which way to go, who to talk to, where to turn I was lost. And he's like, yeah. Do you know what I like about LA is like, nothing ever happens here.1 (8m 2s):That's not2 (8m 2s):True.1 (8m 3s):No. But I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I need to just like New York, like you have like a million things are always happening at any given time. Right?2 (8m 11s):Sure. It's a lot too. Like you have to do a lot of processing living in New York, you're taking your, you know, you're just taking in so much information1 (8m 19s):And that does not happen in LA and LA you're like sometimes starved for like,2 (8m 25s):Right.1 (8m 26s):But we talked about that. And then, and then by like end of conversation almost. I was like, oh, I'm Jen. I'm so sorry. And he was like, oh, I'm Adam. And I was like, okay, still, no, I had no2 (8m 40s):Adam common name,1 (8m 41s):Common name, whatever. And mom named Doris, whatever. Like, okay. And then we started talking, he said, his wife, what did he say? Oh, he bought a house in south custody. Anyway, all this stuff. He has a kid. And at the end I say, he was talking about what we, what we do. And I'm like, oh, I'm a, I'm a writer. And I'm like trying to write TV, but I also consult, I just started this business, but I wasn't, you know, I was a therapist and for felons and like, and then he got really into that. And then I said, oh, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I was, I think he said I was in the I'm in the music business. I said, oh, that's cool. I thought he was like a producer, like maybe a classical composer or something. I don't know. That's where my mind went. And I'm like, oh, like, what do you do?1 (9m 22s):And then he said, I was in and I said, oh, what kind of music? He's like, I was in a rap trio. And I was like, wait a minute, a rap tree endorsed by this. By this time it was like, biting me. You know, it's like a whole, I'm like, oh, a rap trio. And I couldn't the only rap trio I could think of was run DMC. And I'm like, oh, he's not in that. You know, he's a white dude. There's no way. And I'm like, oh crap trio. And I was like, house of pain, Cypress hill. Like I couldn't get it together. And then I was like, and then it dawned on me. And I said, oh, and he said something, like I said, I don't remember how it came up. And he's like, oh, I'm Adam Horwitz. And I was like, oh, I was like, of course.1 (10m 2s):I said, oh my God. And then I didn't know what to say. So I just said, cause he just moved. He actually, he moved to south Pasadena, wait before I moved to Pasadena. But I said welcome to Pasadena.2 (10m 16s):Right. Because the minute, you know, it's a celebrity. It's like, it changes the ions. Wait. Yes.1 (10m 21s):Thank you. You welcome to you too.2 (10m 24s):So what I think is so interesting and must be so well, I don't know. I don't know if it's annoying or whatever it is, celebrities. You, they must have to always be in a process of deciding with when they're interacting with people, they don't know what are we going to do with this fact, like, do you know who I am? Do you not know who I am? If you know who I am, just, what does that mean? Is that why you're talking to me? And then, but he opened one of the first things you said that he said was that his mom's name was, I mean, I guess that's not unusual, but I was thinking to myself when you said that I was thinking, oh, was he hoping That would confirm not that his dad is famous.2 (11m 10s):His dad is1 (11m 10s):Trail horo. Israel.2 (11m 12s):Yeah. He's a kind of a terrible guy though.1 (11m 16s):I heard is there. I think they're both dead. I mean, from what I got, I don't know. I know he has a sister. I don't know. But like he seemed like the kind, yes, you're right. Like it must be so weird. And also I literally was so into my own world. It's like, so Los Angeles, like I, when I found out that he was, I was super excited because I wanted to say, oh, I saw you at the Metro in Chicago and stuff like that. But then I was like, oh, I can't. And so I got excited, but I also, it was literally like talking to your husband or my husband in that they're old people. Like I wanted to be more excited about the, the youthful version.2 (11m 56s):Right? You want it to be 19 year old, you eating Israel, horrible1 (12m 2s):Adam Harz and being like, let's go on a date or something. But that is not what I, that was not my inclination this time. And also his he's married to this amazing punk hero, Kathleen Hanna from bikini kill who I adore. And I know that, but I didn't bring that up either. But anyway, the point is we exchanged information because we were like, let's walk our dogs. His dog is Terry. It really hairy dog, little girl, dog named Terry. And I said, well, what kind of dog is Terry? And he goes, I don't know, very hairy. And I was like, okay, well, okay. So we may go on a dog-walking adventure. I have no idea, but lovely human, but just like soup. We are super middle age.1 (12m 43s):This is what the moral of this thing was actually not the celebrity. Part of it was the, what hit me the most Gina was the middle age in this of it all. So the other thing is like, nobody gives a shit now about the things that we give a shit about. So the BC boys, I was talking to my niece, she didn't know who that was. And so I was like, oh right. Meaning I still care who they are, but2 (13m 16s):Right. Yeah.1 (13m 17s):Time moves on timeframe.2 (13m 20s):Yeah. Periodically we have kids periodically, they'll come up to you and they'll be like, have you ever heard of this bay? Or like, my son was listening to something and I'm like, and I go, he goes, oh, I've got to play this song for you. It's this band. This is like obscure band or something like that. It was the cure. I go, are you kidding me, dude? I put white face makeup on and wore black and tried to hang my two years in junior high. I knew the cure is okay. So that was one thing. And the other thing was last time.1 (13m 52s):It super nice though. I got to say, if anybody cares, he was not a Dick head.2 (13m 56s):I care. Yeah. That's nice. I'm happy to hear that. But just one last thing about that whole, like being a celebrity, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't, because on the one hand you, you could have somebody say, oh, it's like pretentious to not say who you are. And on the other hand, people would say, you know, you can't win. You can't, you1 (14m 14s):Can't win. That is the bottom line. Yeah. Yeah.2 (14m 17s):So the other thing was last time we talked, you said, oh, I want to save it for the podcast, but about showcase. So you were talking about getting your kids ready for showcase.1 (14m 28s):Okay. So here's the deal with that. So I, because of this podcast, I'm like, okay, is there a way to make a showcase? Not the shit show that I feel it was now, there may not be, it might be inherent in the thing. Okay. But so I'm teaching fourth year. I like, basically don't even, I don't know what I'm teaching at this point, but not even teaching anymore. I'm done. And my, my, my, my co-teacher took over, but I started noticing as I always do that, that, that the students are like, you know, crazy nervous about the showcase and also crazy nervous about agents and managers and all the things.1 (15m 9s):Now, there is no showcase in LA. There was only a quote meet and greet. There is no showcase in New York. There was only quote, a meet and greet. Look, it gets weirder in Chicago. There was a live showcase and a meet and greet. Now, I don't know what went down, but the bottom line is the ball has been dropped so many times about this showcase and about graduation and about launching that at this point, the ball is just dead in a heap deflated. Okay. So I said, okay, well, what can I do to make this fucking situation better? Because I know what it's like to be there and be like, oh my God, I'm falling behind. What if so then I'm like, okay, everybody, here's what we're going to do.1 (15m 52s):I am going to email everyone I know in LA and everywhere and say, come to this showcase and watch your digital link. They have a virtual showcase. But the problem with that is nobody. If nobody gets sees it, it doesn't matter. And so it was made in a form beans where it looked like spam. So it went to everybody's spam. So no casting directors and no agents got the fucking link. And I realized that because I told a student of mine, I said, listen, you want to be repped by this one agency, let's create a letter to them. Let's pitch them. And so then I get a call from the agent saying, we loved this letter.1 (16m 33s):Also, thank you for including, we didn't think there was a showcase.4 (16m 37s):Oh my gosh.1 (16m 39s):And I said, what's,2 (16m 41s):This has to do with just the fact that like, there's been all this administrative,1 (16m 45s):I think it's, COVID meets the problem with conservatories, which is that they do not think that launching their students is an important part part of their job. Right? Right. So it falls to nobody. And so the person in charge bless her heart is one marketing person that knows nothing. I don't believe about acting or the entertainment industry at all. There is no Jane alderman. There, there is no, at least. So I stepped in to be like the proxy, Jane alderman with another adjunct. And we were like, okay, well, how do we do this? So I am happy to say that after literally making maybe 43 phone calls, everyone has the link.1 (17m 26s):People are coming to the showcases. Now my thing is to do the meet and greet in LA to try to get people there because these, these kiddos are coming to LA, there is no showcase. I'm like, well, we, what are we doing? Like we have to have something like, so, and I also just, you know, and I know these kids, like these are my students. So like, I want to meet them. And then, so now I'm getting everyone I know to come to the meet, greet in the business and2 (17m 51s):The money thing. Like, they're like, oh, well we have, we can do it online. And so we don't have to pay for, to rent the space for,1 (17m 59s):So they wouldn't even tell me, they wouldn't even tell me. They didn't even want to give me the invite to the LA thing. I had to like fight to get the, I don't understand what is going on. But I was like, listen, all right,2 (18m 11s):DePaul, I'm going to tell you something right now in DePaul. You want to be well-regarded you want to be number one. You want to always talk about your, your alum or even not your alum. People who, who went and got kicked out about their great successes. And you don't, but you don't want to do anything to get there. And that is not how it works, how it works is you put a lot of energy and I'm not saying at the expense of teachers or whatever, but you put a lot of energy and effort into not just hyping your students, but hyping your school.2 (18m 51s):Like it should be that your school is saying, have we got a crew for you? Yeah.1 (18m 56s):And which is what I then stepped in and had to do and be like, these kids are dope. Come see this, look at this link and then come to the thing. And so all the casting and agents in Chicago are now coming. Thank God, because guess who, there was one person RSVP2 (19m 14s):Girl, and you need a bonus1 (19m 16s):Stroke. Here's what we're doing. So then I said, okay, because I'm always thinking, I'm like, okay, well, here's what I'm doing. I'm developing a launching curriculum, which I think I told you about, like, I'm developing a day, one BFA for day one of the fourth year. Here's what we're going to do to launch you. And it's not just about the showcase. It's about mentorship. It's about how can we hook you up with somebody that's in what you want to do? How can we do that? And I'm going to pitch it. I'm going to say, here you pay me $120,000. And I will sell you this program and, and hook you up with teachers and people. I know that can step in and do this with me. Like you like people in the business, like people who are on different coasts, like duh, and then we will.1 (19m 58s):So, and if you don't want to buy it, DePaul theater school, we're selling it to Northwestern or NYU or any anyone.2 (20m 4s):Well, I was going to ask, do you know, if other conservatories are doing showcases and doing,1 (20m 9s):And they are, and they are doing it and they are, they are doing it. I, from what I can see, Gina, they're doing it better. I don't know if it's, you know, how good it is. But I do know that like other showcases released their digital showcase because of the pandemic on actors, accessing and town and casting networks, which DePaul did not do. Oh2 (20m 30s):My God.1 (20m 32s):So here's, so that is not okay with me because I went there and I, I do care about it because of this podcast. I also know that these kids having watched them at, you know, 21 year olds, 22 year olds, max, they're busting their ass, just like you. And I we're busting our ass. Like, look, they're busting their ass more than we were, but you and I busted her ass too. And I feel like we didn't get what we needed from the launch process. And what, what will happen is no one will people and people stopped going to theater school. Is that what you want? Or do you want to upgrade like level?1 (21m 13s):Let me run this by. There's a lot of people I hate.2 (21m 24s):Exactly, exactly. Okay. So the thing I wanted to run by you is about storytelling. I signed up for this workshop in my town. We have a little community theater and they sometimes have little workshops and I did improv there one time. And actually by the way, doing improv there, I I'm, I still am terrified of it. And I still don't feel like I'm I do well, but add it. But I reduced my fear somewhat by just aging within, and then we had a performance and my whole family came and yeah, it was, yeah.1 (22m 3s):Why don't we talk about what2 (22m 5s):She like two years ago or three years ago, actually. Yeah. Three or maybe even four years ago now. But anyway, on Sunday I went to, they ha they had a workshop led by a storyteller from the moth and she taught us, you know, how to, so there was only five of us there. One person, only one person absolutely knew when he came in. Exactly what story he wanted to tell. The rest of us were like, I have certain things that are coming to mind. Of course my thing. And I said, I was, I just owned it from the beginning was I've written essays. And I've, you know, written a lot about my life.2 (22m 46s):And yet I somehow feel like I don't have a story to tell. And she said, that's so common. She was telling this great story about somebody. Cause she does corporate stuff too. She was telling the story about somebody in a workshop, in a corporate workshop who just kept saying, I just, I don't have a story. I don't have a story. The day goes on. And he goes, well, I might have something, my family and I fled Vietnam right before this. And she goes, yeah, that's a story. That's a, that's a story you could tell. Anyway, point being, we're putting these stories together and we're going to perform them on Friday.2 (23m 34s):And the I'll say there is something about the process of working on it. That has been, it's not exactly healing, cause this is not a, for me at all. It's something I'm telling a story about when I lived in that apartment on Lil and Libby got me this job at the bakery and while we were, and she was very assiduous about being to work on time. And1 (24m 9s):I remember the, was it the red hen? Oh, we shouldn't say it out loud.2 (24m 12s):I actually, I really don't remember the name. I think it might have been called great Plains. I don't know. Okay. I don't think it's there anymore. And one of the things that was our task was to deal with the mice that inevitably came into the, in the flour sacks and stuff like that in the back. And, but I never she'd said to me, we have to deal with the mice, but I somehow, I hadn't really, really thought that through. And the way we were meant to deal with the mice was hit them over the head with a shovel.1 (24m 47s):Oh. So, so murder of the mice2 (24m 50s):Were into the mice. And so my story is about watching this five foot tall, gorgeous little, just, I mean, she looks like a bird, this girl, woman now, but she was a girl. Then I'm just swinging the shovel over her head and bringing it down. And then just very like with, with zero expression, taking paper towels and picking it up and throw it in the trash, washing her hands and making it back to the register in time for the next customer who came in. And my point of it, of the story is that's. That was one of my most important lessons about the difference between being poor and being broke because I was broke, you know, and always looking for jobs and always working through school.2 (25m 35s):But if it came to smashing a mouse over the head with a shovel, I'm just going to quit that job and go find another job, selling clothes at express. But Libby did not have such luxuries. She had to take the jobs that she could get. And she had to guard them with her life because as even, even with the amount of time she worked, there was a period of time where she would tell me, like, I'm going to bed hungry a lot of nights. And I couldn't help her, you know, because I was broke. I just, I didn't have we bought ramen. I mean, we right. Like six days a week.2 (26m 16s):And so it's about that. And so there's something about, but, but the fact that it's about this epoch in my life yeah. Which I haven't really written that much about, I've written about my childhood and I've written about things that are more contemporary, but you have a lot of experience with storytelling. And I'm curious to know what role that has played in sort of, you know, for one thing, the ability to string together, kind of the, of your life into a cohesive narrative. If, if1 (26m 47s):That's2 (26m 47s):Something that has been helpful or if maybe you have healed in some way, maybe from your one person show,1 (26m 53s):I am Gina. What comes to mind? Like what first came to mind when you were talking about your experience with this storytelling thing? Is it, what, what is the coolest thing to me about storytelling? Like this live lit as we like to call it in Chicago, just because I, storytelling people think it's like, we started calling it live live because people thought it was like, you know, Renaissance fair storytelling. Right. We had like a cheese ball, it's it doesn't matter. It's storytelling. So storytelling, bridges the gap for me. And maybe you have acting and writing. So it is both performance and writing, which I think is brilliant. I think acting is for the birds.1 (27m 35s):Like I just do. I think acting is really hard. I'm not very good at it. Not because I'm not a good person, but that's what I'm saying. I'm not very good at it because I don't like it as much as I like telling a story. That's my story. That also has a performance aspect to it. And it heals the acting thing for me. So you are acting, you are acting, you're not like you in your kitchen, just like when we do a podcast where there's a part of us, that's acting, it's not, you know, it just is what it is. So I think that that is extremely healing. And what, I wonder if it's extremely healing for you, because I feel like in terms of the acting thing, I know that post-graduation from an acting conservatory, you talk about just completely shutting down, completely not shutting down to the acting part of yourself.1 (28m 25s):And I think like through your son and then through this podcast and through writing television and now through storytelling and like your dip into improv, you're, you're healing, the actor part of yourself.2 (28m 37s):That's right. That's right. It1 (28m 38s):Wouldn't surprise me. If you went on to do acting like started acting in plays and stuff. Again,2 (28m 44s):I'm not going to lie. I'm really thinking about it at this point in time. I still feel like it's a bridge too far, just because I have nobody to spell me at home. You know, I can't ask my husband to leave his job so I can go to a play. But at some point, I mean, you know, they're not going to be this age forever. At some point I will be able to do that. And I do have designs on doing that actually.1 (29m 8s):Yeah. And I think, and I think you, I think this storytelling is brilliant because I think the cool thing about storytelling, as well as like you could go to New York city and do them off one night. It's not a, it's not a commitment like the play. In fact, you could do the risk thing that I did in New York. Like the rest of the podcast is live performances in New York. So all this to say that I think storytelling is a fantastic way to heal the part of ourselves that wants to be a performer, but definitely doesn't want, is not ready to take all the trappings and bullshit. That is a professional acting career, which is garbage. Like I got to say, like I just tell my students is to like the part of the business, which is why this is so fraught because it's garbage.1 (29m 55s):That's why you don't like it. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it to you. If you can find a way to make it worth it to you, the competition, the rejection, the then go for it. But what if that is bothersome? And like, you don't want to deal, like what about live lit? Like what about improv? What if there's so many other things? And so like, wouldn't it have been awesome. Gina. If someone had come to us fourth year and been like, Hey, you know what, maybe you get really nervous and that panic attacks when you have to audition. But what about like writing this thing and telling your story on, you know, on a stage somewhere where you get to hold the piece of paper2 (30m 34s):Today on the podcast, we are talking to Jeremy Owen. Jeremy is a storyteller and the creator of a storytelling show called George being ridiculous, which is premiering ask Stephanie, I think tomorrow or the next day, check it out. Please enjoy our conversation with Jeremy Owens. Wow. Congratulations. Jeremy Owens. You survive theater school. I want to hear this fabulous story. I missed the beat.1 (31m 11s):Yeah. So Gina, miss the beginning. So I was just basically saying that everyone's rusty and it's really good. We're talking about this because also Gina's performing storytelling this weekend and we were just talking about rusty. It was, everyone was after two years of not doing live lit stuff. And then Jeremy tells me that he did a show and of course we can, you don't have to use names and all that, but like did a show and it went south and by south, he's going to tell us what that means. It really went south. So7 (31m 41s):It really, when up it's like so complicated. Okay. So I was doing a fundraiser first off. I was like, I there's no way, like, who wants to watch me talk on zoom? Like we're doing that all the time. Like who even cares? How can this benefit anyone? But it's a fundraiser. My sister-in-law asked me amazing. I love it. Amen. Let's go. Let's do it. So we're doing it. And I, okay. I was not as cautious. And as careful as I should have been the show, I mean, you done the show, you did a show. I don't know if I can talk about your story, but you like got your tooth knocked out. That's1 (32m 22s):Oh, I believe me. I did. I gave a blow job and my back lower fell out. Yeah.7 (32m 28s):That's a story2 (32m 28s):Story. I7 (32m 31s):Share that story, but That's good. That's the, but that's like kind of the fuel it's like, you don't know what's going to happen. Some things are like, you know, super lovey Dubby. Sometimes somebody tells a story about a blow job and their tooth gets knocked out. It's like not a big deal. Like this is the world we live in. But I mean, if you're doing a corporate fundraiser for someone and I just, Alex, if you're listening, I love you. I just was not clued in. And that's my fault. That's not her fault. It's my fault. I accept responsibility for all those things. This is my disclaimer for my, for my sister-in-law. I accept all the responsibility for that. I just should have been more cautious.7 (33m 11s):Right. So if you're up for doing show or tea, fall out from low jobs, it's not that maybe not the best for like a board. Like those are the stories that people,1 (33m 20s):I7 (33m 20s):Didn't know1 (33m 21s):It is. If I'm on the fucking board, I'd probably not get,7 (33m 24s):I know, same for me. I mean, we went to theater school and I've decided like, as that has passed me by that we're not the same as like Bob down the street who is like wildly offended by anything, you know, sexual or1 (33m 42s):Anything2 (33m 42s):You ever get used to that, by the way, I, I I'm always like, oh really? We have to do this thing where I have to pretend like I'm talking to my grandma. Like you're a full grown adult standing in front of me. What's that?1 (33m 53s):What's your story about, please tell me something amazing. Gross, please.7 (33m 56s):I didn't even get to my story. That's the thing. Okay. So It wasn't even me. I wish it were me. It was like six or seven people. And I think we got like three or four in. And so as they're happening, I'm like, oh wow. That person said, fuck, oh no, this person's talking about porn. Oh, wow. Like things that like, just don't register for me. Right. Because I guess theater school. It's like, none of that registers for me. I'm not offended by anything other than like racist, white assholes.7 (34m 38s):Anything else? It doesn't register me. I don't. I know. I just don't care. I'm not bothered. So2 (34m 45s):Charity though. I mean,1 (34m 47s):It was like, there was it like the nuns of like a sister.7 (34m 50s):Oh, I don't want to say there. I don't want to say their name. I'll tell you1 (34m 54s):What Sater7 (34m 56s):Well, they're like1 (34m 58s):Healthcare, charity. He doesn't want7 (35m 1s):. Yes. I mean, it's a great charity. They do wonderful things. It's awesome. Right. But they weren't ready for1 (35m 12s):Me. So what happened? It just went blank.7 (35m 15s):Like we're just plopping along and I'm like so excited. Cause it's like July 20, 20. I have only been like talking to my dog and my husband. Right. So this is happening and I'm listening to stories. I'm having a great time. This is like amazing loving life porn who cares, you know, whatever. And then all of a sudden it stops working. Like I don't see anything. And I'm like, oh my God, this is my brother-in-law. I was like running the tech. I'm like, oh no,1 (35m 44s):He thought it was a tech thing. Of course.7 (35m 46s):I was like, well, this happened to me. I was taking this class online this weekend and the internet I had and I was like, oh shit. Like in the middle of class, I'm like, great. So now they think I'm an asshole. I just left class early. So I'm just like, this is dead. Right. Then they come, my sister-in-law calls me and tells me what's happening. And they're all furious. And they just, instead of like a conversation or something, or like this is coming or we're so disappointed, it was just like, this is over now. Like just totally dead. The bad part about that is that none of us knew. And there was no communication with me. Other if it hadn't been my sister-in-law, I don't know if I would, I would still be here on my computer.7 (36m 31s):Probably.1 (36m 32s):That's hilarious right there. Like, are you there yet?7 (36m 36s):Hello? Hi. Hi. They just didn't communicate at1 (36m 40s):All.2 (36m 43s):We're like, really? I'm getting irritated about this. Listen to the story is like, I don't know any of the players, but I feel like, I feel like we're the people we're pretending people are pretending that they don't watch porn or that they don't swear or, you know, like, why do I have to do this? Pretending I just love unless there was children in the audience and maybe there were,7 (37m 4s):I don't think so. Like, you know, it's like, I had like friends who1 (37m 8s):I curated it. Where you did you7 (37m 10s):Find, I mean, it's all, basically this entire thing is my fault. But like1 (37m 15s):You, you found everybody.7 (37m 17s):I found everybody, I got everybody. This was like a great in my mind was this is like a greatest hits. This is like, awesome.1 (37m 24s):It's the one time I'm so grateful. I was not asked to do anything. Like7 (37m 29s):It was just so weird. And there's like, I don't know it. Yeah, it was. But again,1 (37m 37s):I do the story for the ages. I love it. All of a sudden, it just goes blank.7 (37m 41s):I'm in the home. This is a story I'm going to, I just went blank. I didn't know what to do. Everything was gone. Just talking about those things. It doesn't, I don't find that if, when I say porn, I'm not like, this is the butthole. Like it wasn't like, you know what?2 (37m 59s):I7 (37m 59s):Watched porn. Right. That's not offensive to me.1 (38m 5s):I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Yeah. Like Gina was saying like we're okay. So that went south. Like if did you feel I'm really concerned? Like, cause I would have probably had to check in somewhere because I would have been like, I curated this motherfucker and now I caused this whole fucking7 (38m 23s):I'm still like T like we have a show coming up in like a week at Steppenwolf. And I had one of the storytellers from that show sent me a is doing the show at Steppenwolf. And I like had a moment because his story is like, because of that. And because I'm like wildly triggered, I was like, Hey, maybe you could do this story about tennis or whatever. And he's like, do you need a PG story? Like what's going on? And then I was like, and then I re-read a story. And I was like, I do not his stories about sex.7 (39m 5s):I do not find this offensive. This is okay. I'm person totally traumatized. And then I had to go back and be like, oh God, remember that thing that happened in 2020, I'm just totally melted from that. And your story is great and everything's fine. I'm just having a moment. I'm going to calm down2 (39m 24s):And see what happens to me though. When I hear w whenever my antenna go up, whenever I hear like, oh, that's offensive to me. That just automatically means you're doing behavior that you feel really ashamed of. And so you want to shame me instead of just own the truth of whatever it is you're doing. This is exactly what happens on the Handmaid's tale. You know, it's all about the Bible, but then they're just like holding people down and raping them. So I just think it's a little bit of a soft sign for you've got trouble. If adults are saying that referencing the fact that there is porn is7 (39m 58s):Troublesome. Yeah.1 (40m 2s):Oh my God. I can just, okay. I would have been so traumatized. So I hear you. And I also think that, like, it's interesting, I've had a similar thing where like, on this podcast, I've mentioned my husband's job. I have mentioned. And so Gina and I always talk about, well, we will not always, but we've had to talk about this of like, what is the, and it's like a bigger thing in our society right. In the world. Like, where do I draw the line of like, can I stand behind this? I guess that's what it is. It's like, can I stand? If I'm called to the carpet, whoever God, the board, whoever, and say, stand behind this show. These words can.1 (40m 43s):And that's when, if I can stand behind it and I am willing to answer for it. And I'm like, I'm all in. If I feel like I'm wishy washy, then I feel like it's going to go south. And then I it's weird. It's a weird thing. It's like when to cut, when to not cut, now, you didn't have the ability I'm fucking lives to do7 (41m 6s):That. What1 (41m 7s):Happens in live television, right? When someone who goes bonkers or has a stroke, God forbid, or it's like, you don't know what to do. So live is a different thing. Like it's different with a podcast. We can cut. We can, but like a live show, whether zoom or on stage, there is this moment. So when I did my solo show, Samantha Irby, Sam Irby opened for me. Right. Ramus. Now wasn't famous then. But it was always a Reverend and a bad-ass right. But data story at my show and my uncle were there about SAC,7 (41m 38s):Right.1 (41m 38s):Eight leakage and fluids. And I was like, oh. And then I thought, oh, I wanted to run on stage and be like, ah, this is too much. But then I thought you invited this person. This is their jam. This7 (41m 54s):We love. Right.1 (41m 58s):What, what, okay, sit, sit, and just deal with it. And if my uncle and my uncle was really offended and like, fuck that. Okay. So, but it's hard to do. I was squirming. So you must've been squirming when you, when your, when your person called you and was like, cause you, you found these people. But I think sometimes we squirm, right? Sometimes we squirm,7 (42m 21s):Oh my God, I was dying. Cause it's like, I don't, I don't want to disappoint any of, either of you, this computer, this desk. And I just want to make everyone so happy all the time. And I don't want anyone upset with me or like, I don't want to cause any problems, nothing. I want you all happy.1 (42m 42s):And sometimes despite our best people, pleasing efforts, like shit goes south. Like that is the story of shit going south. Despite Being a good person, having gone to college, go to it, shit still goes south. So7 (42m 55s):I vote like1 (42m 58s):You're very active, like socially.2 (43m 2s):So let's, let's talk about you and your experiences. Did you go to DePaul?7 (43m 7s):I wish I had gone to DePaul, but I, from listening to this podcast, I get that. I don't know. I went to Roosevelt university for grad school.2 (43m 17s):Cool. Tell us everything. Tell us, like, when you decided you wanted to be an actor and when you decided you wanted to go to theater school, tell us everything.7 (43m 25s):Well, for me, I grew up in Arkansas. So I went to the university of Arkansas and I started out as like a journalism and a political science major. But then they, the department, the journalism department had us take a speech class. Like how does speak in theater class, you know, to get rid of your accent basically. Cause we're all Arkansans. We sound like, you know, we're in God, but the wind or whatever. So we took this class and I had growing up and like my small town, I always loved theater. I'd done community theater and the whole thing. So when I took that class and like, everyone in there is like, you know, so alive and so like interesting and like, like real, I was like, well, this is going to be a problem.7 (44m 17s):So then I, like, I signed up for, you know, the second semester of the class. And then I was like, oh, I'm gonna audition for these one acts. And then so slowly I just migrated into the theater department and completely dropped journalism, political science, all of it. And disappointed my parents ruined their lives, you know, the whole thing. So I didn't really understand, like by the, by the end of my time in undergrad, I was like, I don't really, it's like, you're young. It's like, I don't understand grad school. I don't know. But that seems to be thing that I, there was a grad program that had just started there, like, like near the end of my time there.7 (44m 59s):And I was like, I guess that's what I'm supposed to do. And so everyone told me to go to Chicago. I hadn't ever been to Chicago. I knew nothing about it. Never even visited, but I was like, okay. They're like funny people should go to Chicago. And I'm like, oh, I'm funny. So I guess that's where I'll go.1 (45m 15s):You are funny. So it's good. You went there.7 (45m 17s):Thanks. So, so I auditioned at IRDAs and did that whole thing. And then I got a call back from them and I, it was like weird. Like I thought there was going to be like some like bigger process or something. Like, am I going to, I was like, ready, you know, with like my other, like, do you want 16 bars? Do you need other other monologues? Like, well, what's the deal? And it was just kind of like a done thing. So I was like, Yeah, it's like at the callback, there was like, it was an IRDAs. And it's like, you'd go to the person's hotel room, which now seems really creepy what, with a couple other people.7 (45m 57s):And it just seemed like I liked the person who did the interview and I was like, they're in Chicago. This seems great. I2 (46m 7s):Like to act in a hotel room. I've never7 (46m 9s):Done. Like, the audition was in, like, I don't even know where it was like the ballroom. It was like, there was like a black box sort of like made up situation. So you audition and then like the next day or a few hours later, you get like a sheet with a little list of the schools that want to like talk to you or whatever. And we have been like through the ringer with my undergrad teacher and she's like, okay, you need to have, like, you had like your folder with your monologues. And like, if someone wanted a song, like your whole thing, it's like bootcamp and you're ready. So I'm like prepared for somebody to ask me to do anything. And I don't know, I got called back to like a lot of places, which I was like, oh my God, none of them asked me for anything.7 (46m 54s):Which maybe looking back, maybe that was like, not a great situation. I don't know what that means.2 (46m 60s):They were just the, and the call back. They were just meeting you. Right. They were just wanting to know if you were like,7 (47m 4s):Yeah, I guess1 (47m 6s):You're acting probably wow. Like really? They probably would have if they were on the fence, but that probably wasn't that they probably wanted to do what, you know, they, they, a chemistry breed or whatever the fuck they call it. Right.7 (47m 18s):Yeah. I guess. But this meaning with the person at Roosevelt, it's like, she was nice. It was great. It felt good. So I was like, all right, maybe that's where I'm going. And I knew I wanted to get Chicago. So like, that was, that was the deal.2 (47m 36s):It's an undergrad. You were not thinking this at all. I'm guessing you don't come from a performing family or you, you weren't doing this in high school.7 (47m 44s):Oh my God. Well, there was like the junior play or whatever that like pays for the prom, you know, like that kind of a situation. But otherwise, like I did community theater and I'm from a town of like 10,000 people. So there wasn't like really a community theater. I did Annie and Mike, I don't know, 10th grade or something.1 (48m 3s):Amazing.7 (48m 4s):Really upset. I couldn't be Annie. I was like a Senator. And like the apple salesman. I was like that guy I'm like running around doing whatever anybody wanted me to do.1 (48m 20s):Funny. That's why he could do a lot funny.2 (48m 23s):Yeah. Interchangeable. Okay. So day one, you're at Roosevelt. Is this the education that you thought you were going to get7 (48m 32s):Funny? You should ask. So this, when I went, which was, this was 2000 yes. 2000. So it was their first year of their MFA program.1 (48m 44s):Oh shit.7 (48m 46s):Oh shit is right. They accepted 30 people take that in verse1 (48m 54s):307 (48m 55s):MFA. Oh yeah.1 (48m 57s):It's too many people that just like five.7 (49m 0s):Thank you. I think that if I'm being kind, I think they accepted a huge amount of people thinking that, you know, with everything going on that like maybe 10, which is still too many would accept. So there were 30 of us. So we're there on the first day. And I'm just like, this seems , I don't know anything about what this experience is supposed to be, but 30 people that's like, that's like an entire MFA program, you know, that's like three years of people or more So immediately.7 (49m 44s):I was just like,1 (49m 45s):Hmm,7 (49m 47s):This doesn't seem right. But you know, I was like 24. So I'm like so happy to be there. I'm living in my friend's base. My friend's mom's basement until I find an apartment just like, you know, desperate twenties times. So immediately. I was like, I, this is hi. All right.1 (50m 11s):I think I should get off this rollercoaster right now, but it's already going, right?7 (50m 16s):Yeah, totally. I just like was on. And because I didn't have like necessarily the support of my parents where this entire thing, I was like, fight or flight. Like I will do this. If I have to hang on to the side of the building and sleep like that, or like, whatever it is, I'm gonna do this. So I did it.2 (50m 49s):And is it a typical curriculum, voice and speech and movement and all that stuff?7 (50m 54s):Yeah. I was sort of surprised by all of it. The program that I did in undergrad, I felt, I don't know. I guess everyone in undergrad, if you're doing theater stuff there, you think that like, what you're doing is like enough and great. And that's how everything's going to go. So to spend like three hours a day in a movement class, suddenly when you're like, God damn it, let me do a monologue or a scene or sing a song. Like let me work. You know, I understand that that is also work and it's fundamental, but it was really shocking to me.1 (51m 37s):You know, what's interesting is like, and you're not the first person that I've, I felt this, that we've had on the show is like, what I would eat. Like you should have maybe gone right to second city and just done that call that five-year conservatives And gotten the fuck out, but it's not accredited. It's not like a real university that would probably make your parents even more like unhappy. And so, but like you needed like a professional program, like there's conservatory training for actors and then there's professional programs. And I wish I had done, so. Okay. But you're in this. How long was the Roosevelt MFA program?7 (52m 15s):Three years. Oh,1 (52m 16s):Fuck. Right.2 (52m 18s):And was it the thing where you can't perform the first year, but then you do and you're in the casting pool with VFS.7 (52m 26s):Yeah, I, we couldn't perform in the first year though, at the end of the first semester, they opened up an audition to be an intern at Chicago Shakespeare, which was like super exciting. So I auditioned and then I was doing the second semester, I got to be an intern and be on stage and do king Lear, Chicago, Shakespeare. I mean, I was like, you know, a dude, a homeless person running around. Oh, we got it. Yeah. So then I was like, oh no, this is great. I'm like with like these amazing people that I don't know who they are yet, but I will.7 (53m 9s):And there, those people are amazing2 (53m 12s):In that7 (53m 13s):Greg VIN CLER.1 (53m 15s):Oh yeah. was Barbara Gaines directing7 (53m 18s):Barbara Gaines director.1 (53m 20s):Yeah. She's amazing. She's she's famous for, for me, for my one audition I had there, she yawned during my whole model to be fair, but to be fair, it was really boring. Like, it was really boring. She was basically doing what I wish I could have done. It was boring. My shit was boring. She was like this. Can't see. But yeah, she was rude, but apropos I sucked anyway. Okay. So you were, you got to work at shakes and so you were like, okay, but did you make friends? What was the vibe like? BFA was the BFA program established at that time?7 (54m 2s):I think so. Oh, and that part. Okay. Like whatever I'll say about Roosevelt, which I don't have, I don't know necessarily great things to say about the program. It doesn't even exist anymore, PS, by the way. But the BFA program, the program for undergrads, I thought that was like, excellent. Like, I was like happy for those kids. Like that seemed like good. And they were having a good time, but for us it was just, I don't know. It just felt kind of sad and different.2 (54m 26s):So your parents were psyched about the idea of you being a journalist. That's what they thought you were going to.7 (54m 32s):I think the imaginary plan was that I would, or what I sold them at the time was I'm gonna get this journalism degree and then I'm gonna go to law school.1 (54m 43s):Oh,2 (54m 45s):Right. That's everybody's, catch-all hilarious.7 (54m 48s):So that's what I'm going to do. But then I was like, but these plays, these people, it's really the people that are purchased more fun.2 (54m 57s):I actually got dressed so many people in for exactly that reason. It's just something that's like tribal feeling that you don't know that you don't have it until you find it. And then you go, oh my God.7 (55m 8s):Yeah. It was really, it was really all encompassing. I was like, well, I can't not be with these people.2 (55m 15s):What kind of shows did you do there at Roosevelt?7 (55m 18s):I all right. So, so there was that first year experience. And then I don't know. I let's see, I did my last year.1 (55m 30s):Yeah. It just sticks out in your brain7 (55m 33s):Threepenny opera. And then there was this weird Asian adoptation of the rope by whatever old Greek guy,2 (55m 47s):Asian adaptation.7 (55m 48s):So here's one of the weird things about the program. So there were a couple of classes that made zero sense that we were taking as actors. One was, we all had to take a stage management management course. I don't know. Did you guys have to know1 (56m 5s):I7 (56m 5s):Was like1 (56m 5s):Crew, but I don't even know. No.7 (56m 8s):Well, yeah, like working on a cruise, like that's normal, but in an entire semester demo devoted to stage management just seems kind of rude.2 (56m 18s):It sounds like they needed stage managers for their shows1 (56m 22s):Teachers. Yeah.7 (56m 25s):And then there is a professor there who white lady who loved Asian theater. And so, yeah. Pause for that1 (56m 37s):PF chains of, she was trying to be the PF Chang's PF J7 (56m 44s):God lover. I mean, yes. I'm interested in Asian theater too, but everyone was required as part of the MFA program to take an Asian theater class. So, which is interesting. I'm not knocking like any of that, but the PA I don't know the possibility of me being in an Asian.2 (57m 7s):Yeah. Like what's the really,1 (57m 11s):It just sounds like she had a thing for her thing was Asian theater and she wanted everyone else's thing.7 (57m 16s):Total your thing. She had studied in, I don't know, Japan, I think, and had done this whole program and it was like her, she may even have like a PhD on it. I don't really know, but that was her thing and good for her. Awesome.1 (57m 31s):Why are you teaching? But it's7 (57m 33s):Not practical. Yeah. It just seems like weird. So the play I did, I did the, the rope, which is like a Greek play. Never2 (57m 42s):Heard of it.1 (57m 43s):I wish you had done the rain anyway.7 (57m 48s):So she translated the play into a Kyogen style thing, which is a very specific Asian theater style play. Not only that, not only that, but like, I have always been openly unapologetically sort of who I am, which means, hello, I'm a homosexual and it's clear and I'm not like afraid of that as an actor or a person. So I played the, yeah, get ready. I played the, I don't want to call it like the evil sister, but I played like the villain in the play, which was like an older, which type woman in the play.7 (58m 40s):And that was supposed to be hilarious.1 (58m 48s):That's really where we're headed in the arts. I'm also saying the arts in the logs shit went down. Not that7 (58m 56s):Some weird shipments out. Yeah. So it's like thinking about that now you would like wants to like light all of Chicago on fire. Right? Correct. But at the time, this I guess was like, cool, cool. And inventive to make the one gay guy that you were Sure was gay play a woman Asian drag. Oh my gosh. The whole thing is like Asian themed rides. and the whole thing I don't, I can't say for sure, but I don't think1 (59m 39s):So. What the fuck?7 (59m 42s):So just a bunch of white people running around and kimonos speaking in a very like, you know, meter to style Asian thing. And I'm a woman also.2 (59m 53s):I wish we had a video. I really want to watch this play. I mean, just like for a snippet, because you know, when you think of yourself and how seriously you took a role when you were young and you and you, and you just in your mind's eye, even if there's no video and you just imagine, like, what does this actually look like? And that's always looks funny, no matter what or sad. If it's a comedy, it looks sad. And if it's True. So that was one. Did you have any roles that you liked?7 (1h 0m 29s):I mean, kind of, well, there was like a, a directing project that one of my friends did. It was like a Steve Martin one act. And I was like, yeah, right. Like it was like a legit play that was like funny and good. And I had like the lead and I was like, it was like us, like a straight man that I was playing. And I like felt excited because it felt like I was like reaching. I'm not reaching, but you know what I mean? You're like, oh, this is a play. I'm like, yeah. I was like, do a thing. And I like am working for this goal to do. And I felt like I was successful in it and it felt good.7 (1h 1m 9s):But like, that was probably the one, even in my thesis role, which was like, I was like a random chorus person in Threepenny opera, literally it's my third year. I'm like, Hmm. I have to write 30 pages now on yeah. That's, it's like that.1 (1h 1m 27s):The thing like that, I just, and maybe you guys could chime in. And in terms of the curriculum, there doesn't seem to be an actual curriculum for these programs. Like now that I'm teaching, I'm like, wait, what, what is the7 (1h 1m 42s):Tactical?1 (1h 1m 43s):And what is the piece of paper that you can point to, to say, this is the mission of these three years for these MFA actors. There is no plan. What is the plan? That's what I feel about a lot of this is, and it's still to this day in, in conservatories, what is the fucking plan? Because there doesn't seem to be one and there's not a plan. We shouldn't be charging dollars to these people. I just, I, it should be, then it should be camp, a freak out where we go when we, I don't know. Anyway. So2 (1h 2m 15s):I mean, honestly, like it's, it needs to be treated a little bit more like a school and pass fail, right?7 (1h 2m 23s):Yeah. Like the goal it's like, if you're a journalist, like, can you do these things? Can you write a bituaries? Can you write a news story? Can you do the, you know what I mean? So it's like, when I leave this place, am I going to be able to get a job? And I know that like, everyone's like, theater's like, oh gosh, you're never going to work or whatever, but that, it's just not true. It's like, everything is the same. There are basic skills. Do you have them,1 (1h 2m 50s):There are milestones to meet along the way. And if you, I mean, anyway, I it's just, the more we interview folks, the more I'm like, oh, this whole higher ed situation, fine arts needs a whole overhaul. I don't know what it's going to take, but we'll probably be extinct on the planet before it happened. So I just feel like maybe that's the way it's going to go and okay. But like, okay, so you graduate, you then are like, okay, I have this MFA. Then what happens to you7 (1h 3m 21s):By the end of the program? I was really like, I don't know. I feel like it kind of, it kind of broke me because things like that were happening, which in a way is like, I mean, at the time we didn't have the language for like, you know, playing an Asian woman in a play, like it's offensive. And it's like, not furthering me. It's racist. It's not furthering me as an actor. I'm not going to leave here and like run around and Komodo and place for the rest of my life. It just kind of broke me. And a lot of the, I would say some of the teachers, the whole situation just didn't make me feel good.7 (1h 4m 4s):So at the end, I was like, you know what, maybe? Hm. I don't know. I need, I needed a break from that whole world. I mean, I did audition for awhile, but the shortest while1 (1h 4m 21s):How short,7 (1h 4m 26s):Maybe it was a couple years1 (1h 4m 28s):Because we have Gina's trajectory and mine, mine too. Like I stopped after I stopped after three.7 (1h 4m 35s):Yeah. I was probably three years. Like slowly, just petered out. I mean, I got to the point where I'm like going. So I went on a few theater auditions in the beginning and then I had an agent and I would go on these, like on camera calls. And I would just be like, oh my God, I'm in this giant room with a hundred people that are dressed and look just like me. This is the most pressing thing. Like, I just was like, I can't, this isn't, this doesn't feel good either.2 (1h 5m 6s):I want to hear how eventually, how we get to storytelling. But before we do, I just, I didn't want to leave the whole Roosevelt thing without, I don't think I've really asked anybody this before, but you're not the first person who basically says to us, like, I'm gay. They didn't know what to do with me in theater school. Right.7 (1h 5m 30s):So2 (1h 5m 32s):I don't know if this is a question or a comment or what, or like just a prompt for discussion, but what is the barrier there? I mean, it seems like what you're saying about this role that you got cast, it's like, you're gay. So you'd like to wear drag. Is that what the thinking was?7 (1h 5m 47s):I don't know. For me, it's two things. It's like, there's the gay thing for sure. But also I'm funny. So if you're in a serious theater program, please understand I'm doing some heavy air quotes because every theater program thinks they're a serious theater program. They really do not know what to do with people who are fitting into the definition of serious. And so I think yes, there is like me, the stereotypical gay person or whatever, if I am so there's that person, but that's usually a funny person.7 (1h 6m 28s):And so then they don't like it totally. This is serious. We're doing real serious work here. How can this work?1 (1h 6m 38s):It makes that, that makes me, it makes sense. And it also makes me so angry, just Raging, also like fucking pick different motherfucking material. You've that fits your mother fucking class. You dumb fucks. That is what we're supposed to be doing is picking material that highlight our students and help them grow in a way and not the pick different place.7 (1h 7m 3s):Well, that's really where in that and the whole situation, I feel like that's, that's what sort of killed me is that there wasn't a place for me. No one cared to create one and you are, I already felt like I don't fit here. I don't belong. And so it's just like that slowly, just really like sinks in. So you've got that going on. You've got your there with 30 actors and it was kind of, honestly, it was sort of like easy to just like hide, you know, unless I'm being called to play the Asian lady on the play. So it's just like a kind of just was like, eh,1 (1h 7m 43s):Yeah, you gave up. But they gave up on at first.7 (1h 7m 48s):It is honestly,1 (1h 7m 50s):We give up when people give up on us first, especially as young people.2 (1h 7m 53s):That's true. That's true. So you're in audition rooms after school. You're, you're feeling like this is depressing. There's 5,000 mess and we all look the same. How, how did, how did you evolve from that to what you're currently doing, which I'm going to go on a limb and say is fulfilling to you artistically fulfilling to you what you're doing?7 (1h 8m 13s):I would say yes. Okay. How did that happen? I mean, after, you know, just deciding I'm not going to go on these calls anymore. I just, like, I was like, okay, then I'll, I'm working in a restaurant. So that's what I'm, I'm gonna work in. I work in restaurants now. That's what I do. And I did that for a while. And then I was just like, okay, but wow, this can't be it. Like, even if you, as an actor, like whatever level you achieve as an actor, I think there's always that part of you. Who's like, yeah, but like, can I talk somewhere?7 (1h 8m 54s):And people just like to listen to me or just let me tell, you know, just get really enthusiastic with storytelling at a party. Or like, whatever. I, I didn't know about the moth or a storytelling or any of that stuff. I really was just like this theater experience, grad school was so bad for me. And I'm too afraid to go to second city to do improv because I had sat through, you know, the first year of friends doing that. And I was like, well, I'm not doing this terrifying. So I thought, Hey, what if I get some actors together?7 (1h 9m 37s):And we will write monologues, which is how I thought of it at the beginning, it'll be like loosely based on a theme and we'll do a monologue show. I think I had just seen Nora Ephron's play love loss and what I wore. And so there's all these women on stage telling this like, story. And I was like, oh my God, I'm not a playwright. I can never like, make this happen necessarily. But like, if there are people on a stage and then they're just like one by one, like telling a story based on a theme, like, oh my gosh, this is revolutionary. I've just invented this whole new thing. So that is sort of where I started.1 (1h 10m 14s):When was that? I

Anhand vom Koan aus dem Mumonkan, Fall Nr. 5, Kyogen's Mann im Baum, spricht Christoph Rei Ho Hatlapa darüber, wie wir als Schüler auf dem buddhistischen Weg in einer Lage handeln können, die wir als aussichtslos empfinden. Zunächst geht es für uns als Zenpraktizierende um die vollständige Akzeptanz der Lage. Erst dann geht es um die Frage, welche Antworten wir in einer solchen Lage geben können. Thich Nhat Hanh spricht in diesem Zusammenhang über die Möglichkeit, das Leiden so zu nutzen, dass wir es in Glück transformieren können. In einer als aussichtslos erscheinenden Lage geht es darum, sowohl Mitgefühl - für alle beteiligten Seiten - als auch Weisheit im Sinne einer Einsicht in die jeweiligen Zusammenhänge zu praktizieren. Auch in Bezug auf den Krieg in der Ukraine brauchen wir, wenn wir hilfreich wirken wollen, Verständnis für die Motive und Bedürfnisse aller beteiligten Seiten. Und auch für die Verstrickung in diejenigen politischen und wirtschaftlichen Kräfte und Zusammenhänge, in die wir selber eingebunden sind. Um für junge Erwachsene den Aufenthalt im ToGenJi zu ermöglichen, bitten wir um eine Spende. Sie finden die Kontodaten/Paypal auf unserer Website http://choka-sangha.de/kontakt/spenden/ Herzlichen Dank

Emily Pilbeam presents a mixtape of her personal selection of tracks from BBC Introducing with tunes from Team Picture, FFSYTHO?!, Downtown Kayoto, KYOGEN, Self Esteem, Honeyglaze, Gretel Hänlyn, Low Hummer, Jonny Wildey, Hannah Hu, The Covasettes, Viia & Junior Simba.

Genjo Marinello Osho gave this Teisho during the first day of Spring Odayaka. Genjo explores, why do we practice Zen? And how do we nurture Blue Sky Mind?

Series Description: The Gateless Gate January, Winter Practice Period is capped off with this 6 day sesshin. Everyday a case from the Mumonkan is selected and presented by one of the Practice Period teachers. Episode Description: As the first day of the Gateless Gate Sesshin for Upaya’s 2021 Winter Practice Period, Roshi Joan Halifax comprehensively […]

In his Dharma talk Sensei Kaku refers to Mumonkan, Case No. 5, “Kyogen’s Man Up a Tree” as an example of how one might engage Today’s NY Times’ headline, “TRUMP INCITES MOB”. He asks, what’s an appropriate response? Includes the participant’s comments. Recorded January 7th. 2021. Audio only podcast version: The post Talk by Kaku “Bearing Witness in a Time of Turmoil” first appeared on The Village Zendo.

Kevin Schuering will be leading our Naming & Maintaining Intentions: Becoming Effective Toward Liberation community workshop on Tue Jan 12 at 6 PM EST on Zoom. We would love to have you join us as we launch into the New Year together with clarity and intention. Reserve your spot at antiracistartist.simpletix.com.A portion of each ticket will be donated to @redeaglesoaring, a native youth theatre which exists to empower American Indian and Alaska Native youth to express themselves with confidence and clarity through traditional and contemporary performing arts.From Kevin; "I chose Red Eagle Soaring because Indigenous culture, art, people have mostly been erased from our society. The influence of every indigienous culture should be a part of our courntries documented history. These roots should be respected and valued and what better way than supporting a company that supports Native Youth theater artists to empower a young generation to tell their stories and their truths."|Kevin Schuering (He/Him) is an actor/creative artist/mindset coach. His art has taken him all over the world from North America with LTC’s The King and I to The Edinburgh Fringe Fest in Scotland to Japan studying different forms of Japanese theater such as Kyogen. In his art, he is very passionate about giving visibility and elevating voices and stories that are rarely seen or heard. As a coach/facilitator he has previously worked at Simon Sinek’s company Start With Why? and currently independently continues that work assisting people with finding their why. He is constantly looking for different purpose driven/growth mindset tools especially from BIMPOC minds. If you have any suggestions, please share. It’s his mission to share those discoveries and the brilliance from individuals or cultures of all different perspectives. |We look forward to seeing you in the Zoom classroom soon! 

Summary If you’ve ever pondered how “time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana,” then this episode is for you. Join Jesse and Em as they discuss physical comedy and the origins of the commedia dell’arte, its French cousin the comedie francaise, and the Japanese comedic Kyogen style. With a lot of digressions … Continue reading "Episode 21: Watch Out for That Banana Peel"

An interview with Paul Louis Metzger and Kyogen Carlson on Christian-Buddhist relationships. Metzger is Professor of Christian Theology and Theology of Culture at Multnomah University and Multnomah Biblical Seminary. Carlson is a Soto Zen priest and abbot of Dharma Rain Zen Center. This conversation was recorded on September 17, 2014. Kyogen Carlson passed away the following day. This was his last work in religious diplomacy. We are privileged to have known him, to have had him as a friend, and to have worked with him in religious diplomacy and peacemaking. If you find this helpful, please consider supporting this podcast with your Patronage for just a few dollars a month.

Entangling Vines Case 26: Kyogen's Sound of a Bamboo, Dharma Talk Given by Dokuro Osho at Hoen-ji Anniversary Sesshin.

Teisho by Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede The post January 2019 Sesshin, Day 6: Mumonkan #5, “Kyogen’s Man Up a Tree” appeared first on Rochester Zen Center.

For over 600 years Kyogen comedy has been part of the cultural fabric of Japan. It had always been an intrinsic form of entertainment for the common people until the Edo period when samurai lords decided they would make it their own, thus in a sense fossilizing its ad lib brilliance in favour of a more scripted and sanitized art. Always kept in the rather rarified domain of special families of performers its popularity has waned and many modern Japanese have never experienced its unique dynamism, its sophisticated yet hilarious word play and its multitextured stories. Tadashi Ogasawara, not from any of these traditional families, was suddenly introduced to Kyogen at the age of seventeen and has become a leading innovator and international performer as a result. In this first of a series of interviews we have the chance to hear the disciple of a National living treasure share his initial journey into this truly fascinating world. In months to come he will continue to train artists in France and has recently performed the very first Kyogen in Algeria, ever! A subtitled Youtube version of this interview will be available next year. See his website in English and Japanese here: https://www.atelier-oga.com/

Hogen Bays, Roshi★ Support this podcast ★

Everyone is familiar with the story of “A Christmas Carol,” where Ebenezer Scrooge is visited by the spirits of Christmas Past, Present and Future. My guest today, Nick Ishimaru, is the artistic director of “A Noh Christmas Carol,” a Japanese spin on the timeless Charles Dickens classic. Mixing in tradition styles of kabuki theater, “A Noh Christmas Carol” takes us to 19th century Japan as Sukurooji Ebezo is introduced to the 3 ghosts of Christmas. Make sure to catch the production this holiday season. Website: http://bit.ly/2z4bQSr             Tickets: http://bit.ly/2jTeVgp Background Got into theater at age 12, going to theater school Went to Colorado State, majored in theater, minor in Japanese Artistic Director 2nd full production 2012, began doing small productions Learning how to use words Production Planning Begins 8 to 18 months before show open Need to acquire grants for funding, budget early on, assemble production team Watching it come together in the last few days, always the most hectic Tech work is most difficult, have a few rehearsals Show night Don't make tweaks to show as performance goes on Actors will adjust their performance Director is busy doing other things during the show Theater of Yugen Founded in 1987, Located on Mariposa St. in San Francisco Part of Project Artaud Complex, not a founding member Founded by Yuriko Doi, came to U.S. to develop theater career Started with Japanese comedy, Kyogen Noh Theater One of the oldest forms of theater/ history Ceremonial purposes, can be slow paced, performers wear masks Yugen means profound elegance, deep levity Noh Christmas Carol Using Noh aspects to tell the story Similar lessons, but more Buddhist centric Create a reconnection to the community Style Japanese theater usually done by men, Yugen uses women Kabuki Theater very corporate on professional level Noh allows women in performances, Kyogen does not Yugen has very heavy female casts/ audience Actors playing multiple roles/ train their voices Vocal Training Air and breathing exercises Many cast members have background in singing Work with performers, teach them the history if Japanese Theater Kabuki Training Voice training, how to walk and move, all very physical forms of theater Noh Theater uses fans to point/ gesture Training classes for public as well Makeup Only Kabuki Theater uses make up, Noh and Kyogen use masks Specific designs w/personal touches for Christmas theme Lots of costume changes during the show Opening Night Great reviews and receptions Show runs through Christmas Eve Theater does four shows per year Need Grant and donor supports Wrap up/ Contact info  

A Teisho from Saturday at the Ango Opening Sesshin. The Eight Awakenings of Great Beings PDF

This week's passage of the Xin Xin Ming instructs us how to live in this trying and hectic life, yet with a mind open, clear and free ... living amid and as this world of the senses, thoughts, goals, emotions -- yet light, unfettered, unbound ... seeing distinctions and complexity as Wholeness and Simplicity ... at once, as one ... If you wish to move in the One Way do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas. Indeed, to accept them fully is identical with true Enlightenment. The wise man strives to no goals but the foolish man fetters himself. This is one Dharma, not many: distinctions arise from the clinging needs of the ignorant. To seek Mind with the discriminating mind is the greatest of all mistakes. I am reminded of this description (by Zen Teacher Kyogen Carlson) of the lessons of clouds and water. I happened to read it this week. Kyogen talks of a Chinese poem which contains the line: "To drift like clouds and flow like water." ... ... Neither clouds nor water insist upon any particular form, for they take shape according to conditions. Clouds attach to nothing, and so drift freely across the sky. Water twists and turns on its way down hill in complete accord with the path it must follow. The flowing of the water has the strength to move mountains, while the drifting of the clouds is utterly free. In these qualities we have a perfect description of the Zen mind. Just as clouds cling to nothing, floating free and changing with the wind, acceptance of change is the essence of nonattachment and expresses the perfect freedom of meditation. Flowing water follows its course naturally, without resistance or hesitation. This lack of resistance describes the willingness at the heart of a true commitment to Zen practice, which like water, has the strength to move mountains. http://www.universalquest.com/driftingcloud.htm A very good way to move through and whole with the complexities of life. Today’s Sit-A-Long video follows at this link. Remember: recording ends soon after the beginning bells; a sitting time of 15 to 35 minutes is recommended. Please visit the forum thread here!

If you experience any technical difficulties with this video or would like to make an accessibility-related request, please send a message to digicomm@uchicago.edu. Kyogen is Japan's oldest form of theatre. It is closely associated with Noh drama and was originally performed between the acts of Noh theatre. But while Noh themes are mostly solemn, Kyogen presents a comical or satirical view of everyday situations. Orginating from the Muramachi Period of the 14th Century, the humorous stories in Kyogen theatre are derived from typical domestic quarrels and situations. The Shigeyama family has been performing Kyogen for over 400 years. During their North American tour, with shows at the Smithsonian Freer Gallery in Washington D.C. and at the University of Chicago's International House, the Okura School will perform "Kaki Yamabushi" (the Persimmon Theif). "Kusabira" (Mushrooms) and "Sanbaso" (Fertility, Good Harvest and New Year).

If you experience any technical difficulties with this video or would like to make an accessibility-related request, please send a message to digicomm@uchicago.edu. Kyogen is Japan's oldest form of theatre. It is closely associated with Noh drama and was originally performed between the acts of Noh theatre. But while Noh themes are mostly solemn, Kyogen presents a comical or satirical view of everyday situations. Orginating from the Muramachi Period of the 14th Century, the humorous stories in Kyogen theatre are derived from typical domestic quarrels and situations. The Shigeyama family has been performing Kyogen for over 400 years. During their North American tour, with shows at the Smithsonian Freer Gallery in Washington D.C. and at the University of Chicago's International House, the Okura School will perform "Kaki Yamabushi" (the Persimmon Theif). "Kusabira" (Mushrooms) and "Sanbaso" (Fertility, Good Harvest and New Year).

Tokuro Miyake of the Izumi school of Kyogen performs a lecture demo about Kyogen dance.

Izumi Junko gives a lecture demonstration about Japanese comic theater (Kyogen) at the Asian Art Museum. She is accompanied by her sister Tokuro Miyake.