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In this JCO Article Insights episode, host Michael Hughes summarizes "Co-Occurrence of Cytogenetic Abnormalities and High-Risk Disease in Newly Diagnosed and Relapsed/Refractory Multiple Myeloma" by Kaiser et al, published February 18, 2025, followed by an interview with JCO Associate Editor Suzanne Lentzsch. Transcript Michael Hughes: Welcome to this episode of JCO Article Insights. This is Michael Hughes, JCO's editorial fellow. Today I have the privilege and pleasure of interviewing Dr. Suzanne Lentzsch on the “Co-Occurrence of Cytogenetic Abnormalities and High-Risk Disease in Newly Diagnosed and Relapsed/Refractory Multiple Myeloma” by Dr. Kaiser and colleagues. At the time of this recording, our guest has disclosures that will be linked in the transcript. The urge to identify patients with aggressive disease, which is the first step in any effort to provide personalized medical care, is intuitive to physicians today. Multiple myeloma patients have experienced heterogeneous outcomes since we first started characterizing the disease. Some patients live for decades after treatment. Some, irrespective of treatment administered, exhibit rapidly relapsing disease. We term this ‘high-risk myeloma'. The Durie-Salmon Risk Stratification System, introduced in 1975, was the first formal effort to identify those patients with aggressive, high-risk myeloma. However, the introduction of novel approaches in therapeutic agents—autologous stem cell transplantation with melphalan conditioning, proteasome inhibitors like bortezomib, or immunomodulatory drugs like lenalidomide—rendered the Durie-Salmon system a less precise predictor of outcomes. The International Staging System in 2005, predicated upon the burden of disease as measured by beta-2 microglobulin and serum albumin, was the second attempt at identifying high-risk myeloma. It was eventually supplanted by the Revised International Staging System (RISS) in 2015, which incorporated novel clinical and cytogenetic markers and remains the primary way physicians think about the risk of progression or relapse in multiple myeloma. Much attention has been focused on the canonically high-risk cytogenetic abnormalities in myeloma, typically identified by fluorescence in situ hybridization: translocation t(4;14), translocation t(14;16), translocation t(14;20), and deletion of 17p. Much attention also has been focused on the fact that intermediate-risk disease, as defined by the RISS, has been shown to be a heterogeneous subgroup in terms of survival outcomes. The RISS underwent revision in 2022 to account for such heterogeneity and has become the R2-ISS, published here in the Journal of Clinical Oncology first in 2022. Translocations t(14;16) and t(14;20) were removed, and gain or amplification of 1q was added. Such revisions to core parts of a modern risk-stratification system reflect the fact that myeloma right now is in flux, both in treatment paradigms and risk-stratification systems. The field in recent years has undergone numerous remarkable changes, from the advent of anti-CD38 agents to the introduction of cellular and bispecific therapies, to the very technology we use to investigate genetic lesions. The major issue is that we're seeing numerous trials using different criteria for the definition of high-risk multiple myeloma. This is a burgeoning problem and speaks very much now to a critical need for an effort to consolidate all these criteria on at least cytogenetic lesions as we move into an era of response-adapted treatment strategies. The excellent article by Kaiser and colleagues, published in the February 2024 edition of the JCO, does just that in a far-ranging meta-analysis of data from 24 prospective therapeutic trials. All 24 trials were phase II or III randomized controlled trials for newly diagnosed and relapsed/refractory multiple myeloma. The paper takes a federated analysis approach: participants provided summaries and performed prespecified uniform analyses. The high-risk cytogenetic abnormalities examined were translocation t(4;14), gain or amplification of 1q, deletion of 17p, and translocation t(14;16), if included in the original trials. All of these were collected into zero, single, or double-hit categories, not unlike the system currently present in diffuse large B-cell lymphomas. The outcomes studied were progression-free survival and overall survival, with these analyses adhering to modified ITT principles. The authors also performed prespecified subgroup analyses in the following: transplant-eligible newly diagnosed myeloma, transplant non-ineligible newly diagnosed myeloma, and relapsed/refractory myeloma. They, in addition, described heterogeneity by the I2 statistic, which, if above 50%, denotes substantial heterogeneity by the Cochrane Review Handbook, and otherwise performed sensitivity analyses and assessed bias to confirm the robustness of their results. In terms of those results, looking at the data collected, there was an appropriate spread of anti-CD38-containing and non-containing trials. 7,724 patients were evaluable of a total 13,926 enrolled in those 24 trials: 4,106 from nine trials in transplant-eligible myeloma, 1,816 from seven trials in transplant non-ineligible myeloma, and 1,802 from eight trials in relapsed/refractory disease. ISS stage for all patients was relatively evenly spread: stage I, 34.5%; stage II, 37%; stage III, 24%. In terms of high-risk cytogenetic lesions, double-hit disease was present in 13.8% of patients, and single-hit disease was present in 37.4%. In terms of outcomes, Kaiser and colleagues found a consistent separation in survival outcomes when the cohort was stratified by the number of high-risk cytogenetic lesions present. For PFS, the hazard ratio was for double-hit 2.28, for single-hit 1.51, without significant heterogeneity. For overall survival, the hazard ratio was for double-hit disease 2.94, single-hit disease 1.69, without significant heterogeneity except in patients with double-hit disease at 56.5%. By clinical subgroups, hazard ratios remained pretty consistent with the overall cohort analysis. In transplant-eligible newly diagnosed myeloma, the hazard ratio for progression is 2.53, overall survival 4.17. For transplant non-ineligible, 1.97 progression, 2.31 mortality. Relapsed/refractory disease progression 2.05, overall mortality 2.21, without significant heterogeneity. Of trials which started recruitment since 2015, that is to say, since daratumumab was FDA approved and thus since an anti-CD38 agent was incorporated into these regimens, analysis revealed the same results, with double-hit myeloma still experiencing worse survival by far of the three categories analyzed. Risk of bias overall was low by advanced statistical analysis. In terms of subgroup analysis, double-hit results for transplant-eligible newly diagnosed myeloma may have been skewed by smaller study effects, where the upper bound of the estimated hazard ratio for mortality reached into the 15 to 20 range. In conclusion, from a massive amount of data comes a very elegant way to think about the role certain cytogenetic abnormalities play in multiple myeloma. A simple number of lesions - zero, one, or at least two - can risk-stratify. This is a powerful new prognostic biomarker candidate and, somewhat soberingly, also may confirm, or at least suggests, that anti-CD38 agents are unable to overcome the deleterious impact of certain biologic characteristics of myeloma. Where do we go from here? This certainly needs further a priori prospective validation. This did not include cellular therapies. The very scale at which this risk-stratification system operates, agnostic to specific genetic lesion, let alone point mutations, lends itself also to further exploration. And to discuss this piece further, we welcome the one and only Dr. Suzanne Lentzsch to the episode. Dr. Lentzsch serves as an associate editor for JCO and is a world-renowned leader at the bleeding edge of plasma cell dyscrasia research. Dr. Lentzsch, there are several new investigations which suggest that translocation t(4;14), for example, is itself a heterogeneous collection of patients. There are other studies which suggest that point mutations in oncogenes like TP53, which were not assessed in Kaiser et al., carry substantial detrimental impact. Is this classification system - no-hit, single-hit, double-hit - too broad a look at tumor genetics? And how do you think we will end up incorporating ever more detailed investigations into the genetics of multiple myeloma moving forward? Dr. Suzanne Lentzsch: Michael, first of all, excellent presentation of that very important trial. Great summary. And of course, it's a pleasure to be here with JCO and with you to discuss that manuscript. Let me go back a little bit to high-risk multiple myeloma. I think over the last years, we had a lot of information on what is high-risk multiple myeloma, and I just want to mention a couple of things, that we separate not only cytogenetically high-risk multiple myeloma, we also have functional high-risk multiple myeloma, with an early relapse after transplant, within 12 months, or two years after start of treatment for the non transplant patients, which is difficult to assess because you cannot decide whether this is a high-risk patient before you start treatment. You only know that in retrospective. Other forms of high-risk: extramedullary disease, circulating tumor cells/plasma cell dyscrasia, patients who never achieve MRD positivity, extramedullary multiple myeloma, or even age and frailty is a high risk for our patients. Then we have gene expression and gene sequencing. So there is so much information currently to really assess what is high-risk multiple myeloma, that is very difficult to find common ground and establish something for future clinical trials. So what Dr. Kaiser did was really to develop a very elegant system with information we should all have. He used four factors: translocation t(14;16), t(4;14), gain or amplification of 1q, and deletion of 17p. Of course, this is not the entire, I would say, information we have on high risk, but I think it's a good standard. It's a very elegant system to really classify a standard single-hit, double-hit, high-risk multiple myeloma, which can be used for all physicians who treat multiple myeloma, and especially, it might also work in resource-scarce settings. So, ultimately, I think that system is an easy-to-use baseline for our patients and provides the best information we can get, especially with a baseline, in order to compare clinical trials or to compare any data in the future. Michael Hughes: Thank you, Dr. Lentzsch. To the point that you made about this isn't the full story. There does, as you said, exist this persistent group of functional high-risk multiple myeloma where we see standard-risk cytogenetics, but these patients ultimately either exhibit primary refractory disease or very early relapse despite aggressive, standard aggressive treatment. How do you see risk-stratification systems incorporating other novel biomarkers for such patients? Is it truly all genetic? Or is next-generation sequencing, gene expression profiling, is that the answer? Or is there still a role for characterizing tumor burden? Dr. Suzanne Lentzsch: Excellent question, Michael, and I wish I would have the glass ball to answer that question. I see some problems with the current approach we have. First of all, to do the cytogenetics, you need good material. You only detect and identify what you have. If the bone marrow is of low quality, you have mainly peripheral blood in your bone marrow biopsy, you might not really fully have a representation of all cytogenetic changes in your bone marrow. So I think with a low-quality sample, that you might miss one or the other really cytogenetic high risk. So, having said this, I think circulating tumor cells, that might be something we will look into in the future, because circulating tumor cells are readily available, can be assessed without doing a bone marrow biopsy. And what is even more exciting, in addition to the circulating tumor cells or plasma cells, using them is next-generation sequencing. I think at the moment, we are more in a collection phase where we really try to correlate sequencing with our cytogenetics and especially to establish next-generation sequencing in all of our patients. But I think after that collection phase, maybe in the future, collecting peripheral blood and doing sequencing on peripheral blood samples might be the way to go. In addition, I don't want to forget the imaging. We started with a skeletal survey, and we know that you probably need to lose 30% of the bone before you see a lesion at all. So having imaging, such as diffusion-weighted imaging, whole-body MRI, is also, together with sequencing of the tumor cells, a step into the right direction. Michael Hughes: Thank you, Dr. Lentzsch. Bringing this back to the article at hand, how has Kaiser et al. changed the way we discuss myeloma with patients in the exam room? Dr. Suzanne Lentzsch: I think we have more data on hand. So far, we talked about standard risk and high risk, but I think right now, with a very simple system, we can go into the room and we can tell the patient, "Listen, you don't have any of those cytogenetic abnormalities. I think you have a standard risk. We might give you a simple maintenance treatment with Revlimid." But we might also go into the room and say, "I'm really concerned. You have so-called double-hit multiple myeloma. You have high-risk and at least two of those abnormal cytogenetics which we discussed, and I think you need a more intense maintenance treatment, for instance, double maintenance." I think we know that a high-risk multiple myeloma can be brought into a remission, but the problem that we have is to keep those patients into a remission. So, I think a more intense treatment, for instance, with a double maintenance, or with consolidation after transplant, and a longer and more intense treatment is justified in patients who have that truly high-risk multiple myeloma described here. Michael Hughes: Dr. Lentzsch, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom. Dr. Suzanne Lentzsch: My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Michael Hughes: Listeners, thank you for listening to JCO Article Insights. Please come back for more interviews and article summaries, and be sure to leave us a rating and review so others can find our show. For more podcasts and episodes from ASCO, please visit ASCO.org/podcasts.   The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

Disco Lines takes over this episode of Experts Only with special edits & IDs from himself plus music from Vintage Culture, Max Styler, Jai Wolf, Deeper Purpose, Josh Baker, Gudfella & more. Experts Only Intro 00:00:001. Disco Lines - Wide Open (Piano Intro) 00:00:072. Pretty Lights - Hot Like Sauce (The Sponges Remix) 00:05:103. Obskür ft. SHELLS - Rebel 00:07:374. ID - I Was Made For Loving U 00:10:325. Walker & Royce - The Biznes 00:14:006. Jai Wolf ft. BANKS - Dont Look Down (ID REMIX) 00:15:447. Max Styler - Time To Go 00:18:288. Tame Impala - Let It Happen (Disco Lines Remix) 00:20:559. ID - U&I2 00:24:2110. Without You - Tobedisco 00:27:0311. Disco Lines - Disco Boy 00:30:3812. Gudfella - Mind + Heart 00:34:1913. Braydon Terzo - DO THA DANCE 00:36:3214. Deeper Purpose - Disco Bus 00:40:4315. ID - Sexy Trumpets 00:42:4116. Veritas (UK) - Wishing On A Star 00:45:2417. Vintage Culture - Strange Feelings 00:49:2018. Techno Tupac, Clayton William, Saxon - Round The Clock 00:53:1619. Josh Baker - Something To Me 00:55:3020. Fisher – Atmosphere (Jay Prior Remix) 00:58:49

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Janna Hong Neuroscience/AI Researcher  Go to www.thejasoncavnessexperience.com for the full episode and other episodes of The Jason Cavness Experience on your favorite platforms. Sponsor CavnessHR delivers HR companies with 49 or fewer people with our HR platform and by providing you access to your own HRBP. www.CavnessHR.com Janna's Bio Janna is currently pursuing her training in neuroscience. She is representing Interactive Intelligence (i2) which she founded post-covid season. I2 an educational platform that focuses on promoting the ethical use of AI, while making this complex field accessible to anyone driven by curiosity, regardless of their background. I2 is seeking for individuals that are passionate about making a difference, and contribute to the understanding of intelligence and AI's role within it. We talked about the following and other items  AI  AI and ethics Interactive Intelligence Machine learning Starting a non profit organization Building a community  Janna's Social Media  Janna's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jannahong/ Interactive Intelligence: https://www.i2axon.com/ Interactive Intelligence YT: https://www.youtube.com/@interactiveintelligence Janna's Advice I will literally just say it, don't give up. I lived half of my life in survival mode. This going to be the last day I live. But it wasn't the last day, for some reason I survived and building a community now. I would just say, even if you get negative feedback, just think about how you can improve and make a positive impact to society and keep moving forward no matter what people say. Even my own parents were the ones that were kind of pushing me back, but I didn't really listen to them. I just kept going

In this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Jack uploads an interview he did with Nisha from the You Tube channel Talk with Nisha.https://www.youtube.com/@NishaSingh-dh6wsTranscript:00:00:01JackWelcome to the A-Z English podcast, where Jack and Social take you on a journey from learning the basics to mastering the nuances of the English language. Our podcast is designed for non-native speakers who are looking to improve their English skills in a fun and interactive way. Each episode covers a wide range of topics.00:00:23JackFrom grammar and vocabulary to slang and culture to help you navigate the English speaking world with ease.00:00:30JackI'm glad that you reached out so quickly to have me back on your channel. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.00:00:37NishaThank you so much. Yeah. OK, great. How is going your channel, your podcast channel and your YouTube channel? It's great.00:00:49JackOur our YouTube channel, English Word master, we just released a common European framework of reference test. Do you do you know CEF?00:00:59JackThe A1A2B1B2. So we just released a a test on there which is popular. So if any listeners out there want to you know test their ability like to see what level you are you can go to English word master and.00:01:17NishaIf anybody want to talk the English level, OK so.00:01:23JackYeah, I think it's it's quite useful. It's.00:01:25JackJust it's on YouTube, but you can.00:01:26JackYou can give yourself a score. You can check your own answers.00:01:30JackAnd you can.00:01:30JackSee like what your you know approximately what your level is. If your A1A2B1B2 it's kind of a nice nice tool and the podcast is going really well.00:01:44JackThey're just. I released one new episode every.00:01:46JackOK. And so?00:01:48NishaRight.00:01:49JackYeah, we've had really, really fun conversations with some of our students. And then also with my Co host. So sometimes I record with my students. Sometimes I record episodes with my co-host. So yeah, there's kind of mixed mix there.00:02:07NishaAnd how is your experience with the having conversation with the Indian guys actually on YouTube channel? You're a YouTube channel?00:02:15JackYes, I talked to, I talked to someone named changing and I talked to another person. I I can't. His name escapes me at the moment.00:02:26JackIf you uh.00:02:28JackI know that he posted our interview. It's great talking to I I really like talking to Indian people in general. I find the the conversation is very pleasant and positive. It was. It was really good, good conversation and they.00:02:49JackBoth of the all the, all the interviews I've done, everybody speaks English really well, so have to change my yeah, I.00:02:58JackDon't I don't.00:02:58JackHave to adjust my speech? I just speak normally and everybody seems to understand me and and I can understand them. So yeah, it's.00:03:08NishaIt's very good actually.00:03:11NishaBecause if you if you're speaking.00:03:13NishaAnd you're you're Speaking of way, actually, which is very natural for you. Maybe I would not understand you very well way.00:03:26JackI I try I try not to. You know, I try not to modify my my speech too much, even when I'm teaching, because I feel like students need to listen to real speech. I think that's important because in the real world, no one is going to.00:03:45JackModulate their their language. They're going to just speak normally. And so I think good for students to kind of hear that and and to get used to listening to real natural speech. So I try not to do too much like what we call teacher talk.00:04:03JackYou know, teacher talk.00:04:04JackIs like.00:04:06JackYeah, very.00:04:08NishaThose person those you had a conversation rather included me with actually, those are the learners actually they are learning this language, they are not experts actually. And Amara is an expert in this language. But so many people, I think Chandra also is a learner. He is not a good at his English.00:04:28NishaBecause they're learners. I I also had a conversation with him with the Chandan.00:04:34NishaSo because.00:04:37NishaSo because the these are the callers, they are the Youtubers as well as and they are learning this language because they are facing the difficulty difficulties because this language is not their native language they it's a there is second language actually.00:04:57JackRight, right. And the thing about the thing with chinden is that he?00:05:02JackHe's very self, very much self-taught like he.00:05:07JackHe's he he taught.00:05:09JackHimself how to speak English, which I think is really amazing. You know, when people are are just kind of, I mean actually everybody that I talked to is kind of self-taught all all of the YouTube channels.00:05:22JackIn in the circle that been doing interviews with.00:05:26JackI think they're all the same people that you, you know, I think as well everybody's story is kind of the one of being self-taught. It's like one day you decided I want to learn English and you went on the Internet, you found books, you found, you know, YouTube channels.00:05:46JackAnd you just did it by yourself. And that's really amazing.00:05:50JackTo me. So yeah, sorry, go.00:05:53NishaAhead, actually one thing, if I want to ask you about the Indian people, what is the one best thing for Indian actually because you had a conversation with the people with the Indian people. So what do you think about?00:06:12JackOh, I mean I the what's the best thing about Indian people? I think it's it's got to be the politeness. I mean I I just find that like you know, Indian people are so polite and so gentle. You know, the way that they you the way that you guys reached out to me and asked me to.00:06:32JackCome on to your your YouTube channels was so respectful and so polite and so.00:06:38JackMind and generous, you know, open, open minded and open hearted. So I think that's that's my that's the one thing that I really noticed is true for everybody that reached out to me was just how how kind and polite and and respectful everybody is #2 my favorite thing about India.00:06:59JackIs not.00:07:01발표자 4The bread? None.00:07:04NishaHow can you probably in India, we called it in chapati, chapati actually.00:07:11JackYes, I'm sorry. I'm probably using the Western word. Yeah. Yeah, because you have the best food in the world. It is amazing. So.00:07:19NishaOf you.00:07:20NishaHave you heard Indian food?00:07:22발표자 4Oh yeah, yeah.00:07:23JackYeah, I've, I've. You know, I've never been to India before. I've never had, like authentic Indian food. But I've there's there are Indian restaurants here in Korea that I love. And so my, my wife and my daughter, we go there often.00:07:38NishaYeah, so which?00:07:39NishaPapers. Do you like most in Indian? Which Indian food do you like most?00:07:45NishaThat's a good.00:07:46JackI mean, I think it's it's got to be I I every time I go I try.00:07:51JackA different Curry.00:07:53JackSo I think Curry and then the bread that you're, you know, the the bread you're talking about together is most wonderful. It's just perfect. It's just heavenly. Yeah, it's amazing.00:08:05NishaHave you have you tried the Dal, Dal, Lincolns like? Have you tried anytime Indian?00:08:13JackOh, yes, yes, yeah, it's it's kind of like a chickpea similar, right, similar similar to. Yes. Lovely outfit. Yeah, it's it's wonderful.00:08:19NishaYeah, yeah, yeah.00:08:25NishaIt makes it makes South Korea also so many Indian restaurants.00:08:29JackYeah. Yeah, it's really good.00:08:32JackIt's really healthy and it's good like source of protein for if you're like vegetarian or something, so it's already.00:08:39NishaAnd I'm a non.00:08:41NishaVegetarian also I can eat fish and I can eat.00:08:45JackI'm not. I'm not.00:08:46JackVegetarian either I I eat, I eat meat and and and chicken and and.00:08:51JackAll the good stuff but.00:08:54JackI know that there are some vegetarians and and some of those dishes are really.00:09:00JackThey're really good if you're a vegetarian, you can still.00:09:02JackHave a lot of.00:09:03JackChoices in, yeah.00:09:06NishaYou you are a good cook also because those are.00:09:09발표자 4No, no, that's.00:09:11JackTerrible. I just go to a restaurant and and order it. My my wife is a good cook. Her mom is a good cook as well. So she. But she she makes really good Korean dishes.00:09:26NishaOK, so from if we talk about Indian culture like cooking and Indian kitchen three times in the morning, afternoon and at night time, breakfast, lunch and dinner, we cook three times in a day.00:09:46NishaAny Indian, every Indian Indian house? Actually, it makes it three times.00:09:53발표자 4That's that. I can't.00:09:57NishaYou also make the tea time. Food makes the three times.00:10:02JackYeah. Well, no, we we usually eat together one time in, in the evening.00:10:07JackBecause my wife.00:10:07JackAnd I are both.00:10:08JackWorking for lunch time, so we're at school.00:10:12JackAnd wrecked and for in the morning I I usually don't eat breakfast. I'm just a breakfast eater. So I I eat in the afternoon.00:10:12NishaOK.00:10:17발표자OK.00:10:23JackSo eat dinner together, yeah.00:10:26NishaYeah, yeah.00:10:28NishaYou you forgot the one thing about the Indian Indians actually, which is Indians are very hard worker.00:10:35JackYes, that's true. I I I failed to mention that, but it is absolutely true, absolutely.00:10:42JackReally true hard workers, beautiful culture, great food and very kind and and polite. So yeah, I I I really need to visit your country. I think it's it's amazing.00:10:57NishaYou, you, you, you, you. I think you should visit India. You can stay at my home no problem.00:11:05JackThat's a very generous offer. Thank you so much. Yeah.00:11:10NishaYeah. So, like, should we talk about the topic or we just have a general conversation?00:11:22JackWhichever you prefer. I I'm open to to anything, so yeah.00:11:27JackYou said you wanted.00:11:27NishaOK.00:11:28JackWhat topic was marriage? Is that what?00:11:30발표자 4You want to talk about?00:11:32NishaNo or any general conversation. If you want to ask anything about India, so you can ask me.00:11:39JackYeah, well, I guess I'm. I'm I'm assuming that you are a really good cook, do you?00:11:47JackWhat are? What are your special what?00:11:51NishaRather than me, my daughter is daughter-in-law, is very good cook. Actually. She makes a very good fish and she make a Afghani chicken and lots of things. She she cooks very well actually.00:12:06NishaBut I'm also a good cook.00:12:09JackYes, I I thought that that's really nice that you have. Do you, do you have a, are you close with your with your?00:12:15JackDaughter-in-law.00:12:19JackDo you? Do you have a close?00:12:21JackRelationship with your daughter-in-law.00:12:25JackThat's great. That's great.00:12:26NishaYeah. You know, in Indian culture, in Indian culture, we are living a we I am living in a with a three generation me, my son, my daughter-in-law and my in laws also we just live late together in a in a in a single home.00:12:47JackYeah, that's that's still the.00:12:49JackTradition, right in in India.00:12:52NishaYeah, but nowadays nowadays, you know, it's not like that culture actually it becoming nuclear family. So everybody have to go some, some, some places because because of their work.00:13:07NishaIf they are doing a work, any other company, they have to move other city. So that's the reason. Like my elder my younger son is living in in Mumbai because he is doing his job in Mumbai so. So it depends on the their work actually which type which kind of work you are doing.00:13:26NishaSo it's a depend on your work. So my elder son is a businessman, so he just live with us. He lives with us and my father-in-law. He is a 90 years old. And he also he is with us actually. So we are three patients live together.00:13:44JackThat's amazing. Generations together under one household or under one roof. That's amazing.00:13:51발표자 4That's great.00:13:53NishaYeah. And he if you talk about our relations, like, my relation with my father-in-law and my allows with a very good, very good understanding with with each other and if I talk about my daughter-in-law. So she is actually working. And she's also very good.00:14:12NishaAnd healthy and happily, we live together.00:14:15JackYeah, in in Korea, it used to be multi generational in homes. We used to live together, but it's really changed a lot in the last few decades because of what you mentioned before about that. You know you have to go find where the work is so.00:14:35JackIf you if your job is in Seoul, in the in the capital city.00:14:40JackAnd your families in the countryside, you cannot live at home. You have to move to.00:14:44JackThe city find an.00:14:45JackApartment and so a lot of families are are kind of split apart because of because of jobs, because of the of career, yeah.00:14:58NishaIt is happening in India.00:15:00NishaI told you know it is same actually whenever person doing a job or some other cities and you have to there actually like like Indian like South Korean marriages culture so there people prefer to most prefer to law.00:15:20NishaManagers, they get to prefer law marriages or arranged marriages. Culture also is there.00:15:28JackYeah. Ohh sorry one more.00:15:30JackTime. Could you repeat the question?00:15:32JackI I didn't.00:15:32NishaActually I want to ask that any if I talk about any South Korea, what type of culture is there like mostly people like to get hay law marriages.00:15:45NishaOr prefer to arrange marriages, you know, arranged marriages.00:15:49JackYes, yes, yes, that's a good that's.00:15:52JackA great question.00:15:53JackYeah. Usually I would say like I actually, I've never heard of an arranged marriage in Korea's. I know that the most I would say.00:16:07JackAlmost all of the marriages here are.00:16:11JackThrough like dating, you know? So. But but there's. But it's different than America. I'll, I'll try to separate the the three countries a little bit. So in the United States we we do a lot of dating is just you just look for a partner and you you go out and mingle and and either in church or.00:16:31JackIn a club or in a?00:16:34JackSchool. You know, university. You might meet somebody and then you you date for a while, a long time, six months, a year or a year and a half, and then you you might get.00:16:46JackIn Korea, it's very similar to the United States, except in Korea, the family sometimes will try to help by introducing the the daughter or son to other people, so they'll try to like they'll there's actually a a whole industry of matchmaking.00:17:05JackIn Korea, where they're the company, you.00:17:07발표자 4Pay a company.00:17:09발표자 4Yeah. So.00:17:10NishaHappening like II was so then this actually this type process is doing in India also there is a special companies matchmaker companies like shop.com Wedding Elite weddings or like those companies.00:17:27NishaIs doing work actually.00:17:30NishaWhich is South Korea and India. Is this similar culture it means.00:17:33JackIt's I think it's it's got a similarity to.00:17:36JackIt I mean the the.00:17:38JackThe thing in in Korea the the.00:17:41JackThe If you.00:17:42JackIf you come from a wealthy family.00:17:44JackThen the the parents want to introduce if they have a daughter they want to introduce their daughter to a doctor or a lawyer or, you know, a or something like that. If they have a son, then they want, you know, the the the wife should be from.00:17:44NishaOK.00:18:04JackA good family. So there that's very important.00:18:06JackYou know kind.00:18:07JackOf arranging it a little bit, not fully arranged. You know, marriage, but kind of partially arranged. A little bit kind of introduced kind of kind of nudged a little bit pushed, you know you 2.00:18:20JackAnd and get together.00:18:20NishaOK.00:18:22JackWhat I've noticed lately in in Korea is that.00:18:27JackI would say most of it's more like more like American style nowadays. You know, most mostly just a lot of couples will just meet through school. University is a place where people meet. People will meet by group friends, you know, group of friends getting together and then they'll they'll.00:18:47JackIntroduce each other. It's just very, very natural, you know, kind of ways of that. People meet. And I I think the the more kind of arranged or or partially arranged you know.00:19:02JackMarriages are kind of.00:19:03JackAre are kind of of the past.00:19:06JackI think kind.00:19:07NishaOf yeah, yeah, I I got it actually before they got married because it's a partially arranged marriage. You are saying that like in South Korea, I'm not talking about the America. Actually America marriages is a different system.00:19:24NishaIt's a very different way actually, right?00:19:27JackIn America, it's very much like, well, our our culture is very, very strange, like in, in a way, it's, it seems kind of cold because.00:19:36JackWas when we turned 18 or 19. You know, when we graduate from university, our parents like get.00:19:41발표자Out of the.00:19:42발표자 4House go live on.00:19:45JackYou know, get out.00:19:45발표자 4Of here you're done.00:19:47NishaThank you very much. I like this process this this system. I like this very much actually. You know, Indian people just just some become like 606555 years and just in this this age he dependents on their parents.00:20:06NishaActually, his parents, he would be 90 years, but they take care about their their son.00:20:13NishaLike my husband right now, my husband is 56 years old, right? And my father-in-law is 90 years old, but he is still takes care of my husband so much, so much. So this affection is very good. But, you know, sometimes the people don't become responsible.00:20:33NishaAt so I like this culture in a US because they become responsible at every age. Actually it's good.00:20:43JackThat's I think there are good parts to all of the all of the differences, like every country's got like some good parts. And I I think it's good to go off and and take care of yourself because you learn how to be independent and self-sufficient. You learn how to take care of.00:20:59JackYourself, but I think we also.00:21:02JackCan get a little bit too much.00:21:04JackDistance between families so that we we are neglectful of our of our parents. And I think I what I like is the the closeness of the Indian household. How close those relationships are.00:21:21JackWhen it comes to dating in American culture, I would say, you know you, you meet people where we we meet people is usually at work or at school. Those are the big places, but it's very much like the parents are not involved really. It's more of like later when you're dating.00:21:41JackThen you introduce your, your girlfriend or boyfriend to your parents, but it's at first it's just, you know, you have to find your own way.00:21:50JackBut I think a lot, you know, even in.00:21:52JackThe in the recent past in America.00:21:55JackThere were, you know, like very wealthy families that want to act with another wealthy family. And one way to connect is by the the children marrying. And so those kinds of arranged marriages. Again, it's not, it's not really an arranged marriage, but they're it's kind of partially arranged those.00:22:16JackWe're common and I think it still happens. You know, sometimes today.00:22:20NishaWhich fields attend their marriages?00:22:24JackYeah. I mean, it's not it. And what what do you what about in, in in India like do they still have fully arranged marriages? Is that still common?00:22:33NishaWhen I talk.00:22:34NishaAbout when I got married at that.00:22:36NishaTime I was.00:22:37NishaOnly 1920 years old only and.00:22:42NishaI'm talking about 30.00:22:43NishaTwo years ago, I got married, actually. Wow.00:22:48NishaYou know, I I got married totally. Each marriage at that time, even I didn't saw my husband. I didn't see my husband at that time before marriage, I didn't see my husband. It was very wondering actually, but actually it's a Indian culture. But nowadays it's also totally changed.00:23:08발표자 4OK.00:23:08NishaBefore when like I got my son married. So he it did marriage also he arranged marriage. But you know they they had a meeting 4 or 5 * 4 capability they get to understand to each other it would be better for their relationship.00:23:29NishaActually, so they are in Norway nowadays. In India, people getting getting, getting in love marriages evenly arranged, marriages also doing. But most probably 70% it is doing arranged marriages.00:23:45JackOK. And you know the the thing that I I learned, I heard this, I don't know if it's true, but you can correct me, but arranged marriages are about at just as successful or more successful statistically than non arranged marriages, right? Like you you would think like in an arranged marriage.00:24:05JackAs an American I would think Ohh they must get divorced really often. You know that would be my my assumption my guess, but it's not true. The arranged marriages are oftentimes very successful marriages.00:24:17NishaThank you.00:24:24NishaYeah, it's true. So in America, in America, people believe in it. If the people do the get the arranged marriage they were, they would be successful, they they would be fail. You were talking about.00:24:25JackAnd so yeah, which is to us, it's counterintuitive.00:24:45JackWell, no, we I, in my mind like I we we would think that like arranged marriages are fail more often.00:24:55JackBut I I.00:24:56JackDon't think it's true. It's not true. I think that arranged marriages are.00:25:00JackActually, just as successful as non arranged marriages.00:25:07JackWhy do you? Why is that? Why do you think that is? Like what? Why does it work the way it?00:25:12NishaYeah, I'm telling you, actually, what happened in in India, in India, what happened in I2 people don't get married. Two families get married. They become a relationship with within the two families, you know. And after marriage, the bride.00:25:32NishaGoing to live within the year was actually so sometime, you know, the the after the marriage, the bride and groom both are boys and girls. Both are.00:25:43NishaYoung and they are young blood and sometimes they have an argument with each other and if at that moment if there is some another person like me and sometime, you know my daughter and son having some issues with the.00:26:03NishaPersonal topic, actually, every time I make them understand that it's not a good, it is not good for you that that one is not good good for you. So maybe that that thing make works. Actually these things work work actually maybe any layer below.00:26:22NishaThat the marriage marriages is more successful rather.00:26:26NishaThan low marriages.00:26:28JackYeah. Yeah, that's the. That's what's so interesting is that they're often they're successful. They they're arranged, marriages work and so.00:26:36JackI think you.00:26:36JackKnow as a as a, as a young person in America when I was, you know.00:26:40JackGrowing up, we we you know.00:26:43JackWe would hear about that. You know, they have arranged marriages in in other countries such as India and we would, you know, say wow, that's that that's that can't work. That's impossible. How is that possible? But now as a, you know, looking looking back as a 46 year old.00:27:02JackI can.00:27:02JackSee that like.00:27:05JackYou know there there's other ways of doing it that are just as valid and as long as both, you know, families and both parties are are fully committed to it. They can make it work. So yeah, it's it's really fascinating. It's an interesting topic for me because I just, I don't know very much about it, to be honest.00:27:25JackKind of ignorance so.00:27:26NishaWhere you know Jack.00:27:27NishaNowadays, India in India also marriages the the divorce rate, increasing day by day.00:27:36NishaAlso, the people, the young couple, they most probably like to live a separate family and now a generation don't have much patience.00:27:49NishaAnd they they they don't adjust. They don't want to adjust to each other. So day by day in India also whether it is a long marriage or arrange marriages.00:28:01NishaDivorce rate increasing. I don't know what is the reason behind that. Maybe lack of patience, lack of adjustment. You know, in Indian marriages, most probably women adjust in the marriages.00:28:18JackYeah, that's really fascinating. I'm I'm. I'm glad you brought that up because I think I think that it your your point about people not being patient is really, really true, because even in my own, in my own experience, my wife is Korean. I'm American. And so there's a lot of opportunity for us to misunderstand each other.00:28:40JackWhen we first got married, but we were both patient people, so we understand like, OK.00:28:47JackWe have to.00:28:49JackThere's a time to you. You can disagree. Like it's OK to disagree and have disagreements, but it's it's how you disagree is the important thing, and I think these days young people are kind of want instant.00:29:04JackIt's satisfaction. So if they disagree, they just walk away. I'm finished. You know, it's done.00:29:12JackAnd they don't. They don't go through the process, you know, disagree discuss, you know, reconcile. And there's a whole process to it. And I think these days a lot of people are just like the first problem and they just go. I'm done. I quit. And and I think that's.00:29:31JackA kind of.00:29:32JackThat's a mistake. It's a big mistake.00:29:35JackThat people make.00:29:35NishaYeah, yeah, yeah.00:29:37NishaSo whenever you some time whenever you have your argument with your wife and the time who say the soul, you are the one who say the sorry first or your wife say the sorry.00:29:49JackYou know, I always say I'm.00:29:51JackSorry, it's always me. I'm the one who always makes the mistakes, you know. So I'm always.00:30:01발표자 4I yeah.00:30:04NishaAt last, actually it's already become a 31 minute actually. So at last I want to say that like regarding marriage, if you want your beautiful married life at that time actually for that.00:30:22NishaIf you want to run the your marriage in a long time, that time you have to patience. I think a good understanding.00:30:31NishaAnd trust to each other. And one thing is more important. It should be. You should not criticize to your partner actually.00:30:42NishaSo if you yeah, so these are the important points, if you if you don't criticize your partner all the time, so maybe you can overcome from your problem whatever.00:31:02NishaBeing in your married life and our thing is more than you have to give the space to your partner. In Indian culture, these things is not happen for especially women.00:31:16JackRight. But I mean you've I.00:31:19JackThink you've summarized it perfectly like I agree with everything you said. I mean exclamation point, because you're exactly right. It's about.00:31:28JackLove and respect, you know, and and being patient and I mean those are so important in a in a relationship in a marriage. If you're gonna stay together. Yeah, you've been you been married 30.00:31:42JackTwo years, right?00:31:42Jack32 years. That's amazing. I I met 18 years.00:31:47JackSo we're getting close to close to 20 years, yeah.00:31:48NishaOK.00:31:52NishaWhenever you completed 25 years, then you will celebrate the your Golden Jubilee.00:31:58발표자 4Yes, right. Yeah. Yeah, we'll go to India. Yeah, for a trip.00:32:07NishaI think on your Golden Jubilee you must see your wife. Like what the?00:32:14NishaTaj Mahal, you.00:32:15NishaKnow the Taj Mahal. It is very.00:32:16NishaFamous in India.00:32:17NishaSo you should.00:32:20NishaSee her the Taj Mahal on your 25th anniversary. You can stay with me at my home whenever you care.00:32:29JackThat's so generous of you. That's amazing. See, I told you, Indian people are super generous. Super polite. Yeah, it's just true.00:32:38NishaYeah, yeah.00:32:39JackThank you so much, Nisha. You know, it's it's so fun to talk to you and the time just flies by like you know so quickly. But yeah.00:32:49NishaOK, Jaipur, to the conversation, I'm giving you precious time. Thank you so much for that.00:32:55JackAt anytime I I'm happy to talk to you. Yeah.00:32:58JackLet's let's do it again sometime.00:33:01NishaOK.00:33:02JackAll right. Thanks, nisha. OK. All right. Bye bye.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/a-to-z-quick-tok-28-jacks-interview-with-nisha-from-the-you-tube-channel-talk-with-nisha/Social Media:Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok:@atozenglish1Instagram:@atozenglish22Twitter:@atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ADonate to the show: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/donationsRobin and Jack started a new You Tube channel called English Word Master. You can check it out here:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2aXaXaMY4P2VhVaEre5w7ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Daybird by Broke for Freehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/Directionless_EP/Broke_For_Free_-_Directionless_EP_-_03_Day_Bird/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcodehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/eaters/simian-samba/audrey-horne/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode: 00177 Released on September 18, 2023 Description: US Border Patrol (BP) employ some agents that are both officers and analysts, though thankfully their roles are split depending on the situation. Joshua (Josh) Todd joins us this week to explain the structure of how BP develops, trains, and assigns their analysts as well as share his badge story relating to his usage of GIS technology and building relationships with partnering agencies to handle a case. Josh is also a fan of BLUF, Bottom Line Up Front, and discusses using BLUF when providing case support. Josh's analyst experience also includes time as a criminal intelligence analyst with the New York Army National Guard Counter Drug Task Force. Josh is currently a Border Patrol Intelligence Agent and the Adirondack Chapter President for the International Association of Law Enforcement Intelligence Analysts, Inc. (IALEIA). He is also a Great Highland Bagpiper for the Bog Oak Bagpipes.  CHALLENGE: There are Easter eggs in one of the tables of the Excel chapter that Jason wrote for the IACA textbook. First-person to email us at leapodcasts@gmail.com about what the Easter eggs are will receive a $50 gift card from us. Happy hunting! Name Drops: Julie Horn/Sarah Laranjo/Kim Robertson (00:45:37) Public Service Announcements: Matt Zacharewicz (https://www.leapodcasts.com/e/atwje-matt-zacharewicz-the-proactive-analyst/) Kyle Stoker (https://www.leapodcasts.com/e/kyle-stoker-the-training-connoisseur/)  Sam Gwinn (https://www.leapodcasts.com/e/samantha-gwinn-–-the-advocate/) Related Links: https://www.cbp.gov/ https://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/crimnet/ojsa/impact/CACCI.pdf https://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/crimnet/ojsa/impact/CAC%20Network%20Map%2006%2002%2022.pdf https://www.ialeia.org/chapters.php Association(s) Mentioned: IALEIA Vendor(s) Mentioned: I2, Penlink, Palantir  Contact: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-todd-801545219/  Transcript: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/nandbx/JoshTodd_transcript.pdf  Podcast Writer: Mindy Duong Podcast Researcher:  Theme Song: Written and Recorded by The Rough & Tumble. Find more of their music at www.theroughandtumble.com. Logo: Designed by Kyle McMullen. Please visit www.moderntype.com for any printable business forms and planners.  Podcast Email: leapodcasts@gmail.com   Podcast Webpage: www.leapodcasts.com   Podcast Twitter: @leapodcasts 00:00:17 – Introducing Josh 00:03:53 – Border Patrol 00:22:15 – National Guard 00:25:27 – ABS:  Contraband Case 00:29:40 – Break: Matt Zacharewicz, Kyle Stoker, & Sam Gwinn 00:31:10 – I2, Penlink, Palantir 00:35:02 – Border Patrol - ILP  00:40:58 – IALEIA 00:47:31 – Advice 00:49:13 – Personal Interest: Bagpipes  00:54:42 – Words to the World

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Episode: 00163 Released on June 12, 2023 Description: Curious on how to transfer your analytical skills to Corporate America? Then this is the episode for you! In this week's episode, Dallas Knight shares how she went from an officer and analyst in the US Army to Intel Analyst for the Las Vegas Metro PD to Sales Specialist at IBM to VP of Channel Sales & Client Success at Blue Light LLC where she is today. Dallas has a wealth of knowledge that she's happy to share, including her work in addressing the drug epidemic in the Las Vegas Metro area, and how analytical skills work in the private sector. Dallas is a subject matter expert in high-level narcotic, financial, human trafficking, and other organized crimes investigations, and a master communicator. Dallas discusses how being vulnerable is not the same as being weak. As mentioned earlier, Dallas is currently the VP of Channel Sales & Client Success for Blue Light LLC, a tech company that has staff with a combined 100+ years of law enforcement and military knowledge and experience; she is also a soon-to-be author.    CHALLENGE: There are Easter eggs in one of the tables of the Excel chapter that Jason wrote for the IACA textbook. First-person to email us at leapodcasts@gmail.com about what the Easter eggs are will receive a $50 gift card from us. Happy hunting! Name Drops:  Public Service Announcements: Dawn Reeby (https://www.leapodcasts.com/e/atwje-dawn-reeby-the-ceo-analyst/) Jennifer Loper (https://www.leapodcasts.com/e/atwje-jennifer-loper-the-junk-drawer/) Related Links: https://bluelightllc.com/i-am-not-superwoman-im-an-intelligence-analyst-and-this-is-my-story/ Netflix Painkiller https://www.netflix.com/title/81095069  https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/crackdown-on-illegal-sales-of-painkillers-results-in-12-arrests/  https://post.nv.gov/Training/Opportunities/Nevada_High_Intensity_Drug_Trafficking_Area_(HIDTA)/  Association(s) Mentioned:  Vendor(s) Mentioned: Blue Light LLC, I2, RFFlow Contact: dallas.knight@BlueLightLLC.com, https://www.linkedin.com/in/dallasrknight/  Transcript: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/8k2692/DallasKnight_transcript.pdf  Podcast Writer: Mindy Duong Podcast Researcher:  Theme Song: Written and Recorded by The Rough & Tumble. Find more of their music at www.theroughandtumble.com. Logo: Designed by Kyle McMullen. Please visit www.moderntype.com for any printable business forms and planners.  Podcast Email: leapodcasts@gmail.com   Podcast Webpage: www.leapodcasts.com   Podcast Twitter: @leapodcasts 00:00:17 – Introducing Dallas 00:08:34 – ABS:  Oxy Case 00:21:13 – Boston Connection 00:32:37 – Break: Dawn Reeby, Jennifer Loper, & Those That Help 00:34:56 – Transitioning to IBM   00:42:38 – I2 Complaint 00:49:06 – Givin' the Blue Light   00:55:22 – Personal Interests: Horses & Barrel Racing 01:01:12 – Combat Journal to be Published 01:11:12 – Words to the World

"单极抑郁症中的免疫细胞组成：全面的系统评价和荟萃分析 NinaVindegaardSørensen，Beate Holmelund Frandsen，Sonja Orlovska-Waast，Terkild Brink Buus，NielsØdum，Rune Haubo Christensen和Michael Eriksen Benros 抽象的 抑郁症与" "启动AD- #TheMummichogBlogoFmalta Amazon Top和Flash Deals（会员链接 - 如果您通过以下链接购买，您将支持我们的翻译）-https：//amzn.to/3feogyg 仅在一次搜索中比较所有顶级旅行网站，以在酒店库存的最佳酒店交易中找到世界上最佳酒店价格比较网站。 （会员链接 - 如果您通过以下链接购买，您将支持我们的翻译）-https：//www.hotelscombined.com/?a_aid=20558 “因此，无论您希望别人对您做什么，也对他们做，因为这是法律和先知。”“ #Jesus #Catholic。 “从受孕的时刻，必须绝对尊重和保护人类的生活。从他生存的第一刻起，必须将一个人承认为拥有一个人的权利 - 其中每种无辜者都是无辜的权利。”天主教教堂的教理2270。 堕胎杀死了两次。它杀死了婴儿的身体，并杀死了母亲的科学。堕胎是深刻的反妇女。它的受害者中有三个季节是女性：一半的婴儿和所有母亲。 流畅的马耳他无线电是马耳他的第一号数字广播电台，演奏您的轻松最爱 - Smooth提供了“无混乱”的混音，吸引了35-59个核心观众，提供柔和的成人现代经典。我们操作一个流行曲目的播放列表，并定期更新。 https://smooth.com.mt/listen/ 马耳他是一颗地中海宝石，等待被发现。马耳他拥有文化和历史，娱乐和放松，冒险和兴奋的独特结合，也是出国留学的理想之地。实际上，它拥有世界上最优秀的学习机构。 -https：//www.visitmalta.com/ 关注电报：https：//t.me/themummichogblogdotcom Tumblr：https：//www.tumblr.com/themummichogblogofmalta blogspot：https：//themummichogblogofmalta.blogspot.com/ 论坛：https：//groups.google.com/g/themummichogblog Facebook：https：//www.facebook.com/groups/chinesecommunitymalta 结束广告" "炎症性病理生理机制，包括循环免疫细胞量的改变。然而，与健康对照组相比，在过去20年中，没有在过去20年内重新评估抑郁症患者的血液和脑脊液（CSF）的循环免疫细胞。这项研究的目的是与健康对照组相比，系统地评估单极抑郁症患者的血液和CSF中的循环免疫细胞。搜索数据库直到2021年2月12日。使用固定和随机效应模型，将104项研究包括在荟萃分析中。抑郁症患者的总体白细胞计数明显更高（35个研究； SMD，0.46; 95％CI：0.31-0.60，I2 = 68％），中性粒细胞计数较高（24个研究； SMD，0.52; 95％CI：0.33-0.71：0.33-0.71 ，与健康对照组相比，I2 = 77％）和更高的单核细胞计数（27个研究； SMD，0.32; 95％CI：0.11-0.53，I2 = 77％）。白细胞计数在住院患者中较高，表明与抑郁症的严重程度有关。此外，几个淋巴细胞亚群（包括较高的天然杀伤细胞和T细胞亚群）发生了重大改变。较高的中性粒细胞/淋巴细胞比（11个研究； SMD = 0.24; 95％CI：0.06-0.42，I2 = 73％），CD4/CD8细胞比率（26个研究； SMD = 0.14; 95％CI：0.01-28，I2，I2，I2，I2，I2 = 42％）和T辅助器17/T调节率（2个研究； SMD = 1.05; 95％CI：0.15–1.95，I2 = 86％）在患者中与健康对照组相比在患者中发现。与对照组相比，患者的CSF白细胞计数更高（3个研究； SMD = 0.20； 95％CI：0.01-0.38，I2 = 0％）。没有CSF细胞子集的数据。这项研究表明，与健康对照组相比，单极抑郁症患者有几种血液免疫细胞的改变，包括主要白细胞亚群和更专业的免疫细胞亚群。 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01905-z "

How to find what a property is zoned for in the city's website? What are some tips on working with the city to get your project approved? How to go about rezoning a parcel? Scott Krone, principal at Coda Design + Build and Coda Management Group is a developer with over 30 years of experience and shares his knowledge. Watch this interview here: bit.ly/3XJZg45 Read this interview here: bit.ly/3ucrMhi Let's go over an entitlement example please. When someone brings us a property, the first thing that we do, and we're determining if we're going to move forward with it, is we look at what are the entitlements. Entitlements are a fancy word of saying, what is the zoning, what are you entitled to do on a property. A lot of people think that they have to go to someone in the city and get this information, when, in reality, it's already out there in public forum. As developers, we will always go and look to what it is, and then, we will trust, but verify. We will then go back to the city planners and say, this is what we saw, we want to make sure that we're in agreement. It's our way of trusting and verifying with the city official. I selected a location that we recently worked on in the City of Dayton, and I picked this one because there's a lot of different things here. There are tabs called residents, businesses, government. Typically, we go to government, because that's where the different departments are broken down. Here you see planning, neighborhood and development, public works, community communications, community development, boards, commissions and committees, these are all different ones. Public Works has sewers and water lines, planning, neighborhood and development, this is probably where the information is going to be under, because this is how they plan for things. We click on that one, and it comes up with the zoning coded map, it has an interactive zoning map, this one is really nice. Others might be on a PDF. We will click on that, and then, we put in the address, the property comes up, and we can click on show more results. To clarify a couple of things: 1) Every city website is going to be completely different, unfortunately, from one another 2) What we're looking at right now is either a property that you are looking at purchasing or expanding to make sure that it's zoned properly or could be rezoned, correct? We try not to rezone, but if we do, that's a whole different process. Right now, we're trying to determine what it is that we are allowed to do. When we look at this one, 535 East Third Street, it's bouncing back and forth between these two, I'm not sure why. I'm going to zoom in to see the streets, because then that way I'll know where we are. We are now under the UBD District, but UBD means nothing to me, I have no idea what that is, they've come up with this general term. It might be unified business district, it might be, etc. But that is what we're going to be looking for when we do it. If you look under this category, there's a PD 108, this is a planned development, and that was 108th planned development HD 2. These are all different districts that are zoned, if we zoom back out, you can see the different zoning sections, they all have different colors to make it interesting. I2 is typically industrial, a second version of industrial. There's a CBD, which might be the commercial business district as opposed to unified business district. So those are all the things that we look for in terms of the breakdown. Scott Krone info@codamg.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

Francis Ford Coppola's seminal gothic horror masterpiece of a vampire lord who travels to London to find his eternal love. Gary Oldman stars as the titular Count Dracula along with Anthony Hopkins, Wynona Ryder, and Keanu Reeves ** Deep Dive Movie Reviews contain spoilers ** I2:15 - Comparing Coppola's film to other Draculas 5:01 - Great cast, well except for… 10:30 - How vampires are portrayed 13:45 - Sexual themes in Bram Stoker's Dracula 16:20 - Gary Oldman as Dracula 21:20 - Other attempts at “Dracula” rarely measure up 28:00 - Final thoughts on "Bram Stoker's Dracula"

Intro: Emceeing a memorial serviceLet Me Run This By You: Fear and the paranormalInterview: We talk to Tina Parker aka Francesca Liddy about SMU, Blake Hackler, Andre DeShields, Maria Irene Fornes' Mud, Kitchen Dog Theatre, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Robert Altman's Dr. T & the Women, Birdbath play, Perpetual Grace. FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):1 (8s):I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez2 (10s):This, and I'm Gina Pulice1 (11s):We went to theater3 (12s):School together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.4 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of3 (20s):It all. We survive theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):So what does mean, What does it mean to mc a memorial?1 (40s):Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to call it. I I people keep it host. I'm not hosting cuz the family's hosting. So what it means is that I'm trusted, I think to not, Well one, I've done this twice, you know, I've lost both my parents. So I like know the drill about how memorials go, but also I think I'm kind of a safe person in that I will step in if someone goes kaka cuckoo at the memorial and I also have some, you know, able like, presenting skills. Yes. Right. And I'm entrusted to like guide the ship if it, and if it goes off kilter, I will say to somebody, Hey, why don't you have a seat?1 (1m 23s):This is like, we'll have time for this later if you really wanna get crazy or whatever. But that's, and I think it's just sort of steering, steering the grief ship maybe. I don't know. Yeah, look, I don't know. I like that. It's gonna be2 (1m 34s):Interesting, dude, people, Oh, honestly, they should have that for, you know, in other cultures where they have like professional grievers and professional mourners, it, it sounds a little silly, but at the same time it's like, no, this is right. Because no, we don't, we never know how to do it. Unless you've lived in a really communal environment where you, you, you, you know, you attend the rights, the ceremonies or rituals of everybody in your village, then you really don't know until, usually until it's thrust upon you. And then it's like, well, you're supposed to be grieving and then like hosting a memorial service. It's such a weird thing. So this could be another career path for you. You could be a professional, you know, funeral mc, I actually, honestly, I hate, I don't hate it.2 (2m 21s):I love it. Well,1 (2m 22s):And also could be my thank you, my rap name funeral Mc instead of like young mc funeral mc, but no. Yeah, I, I have no, and it's so interesting when it's not my own family, right? Like these are family friends, but they're not, it's not my mother who died. I don't have the attachment to I people doing and saying certain things. I don't feel triggered. Like being, I grew up a lot in this house that I'm sitting in right now, but it's not my, it was not my house. So I don't have any attachment emotionally like appendages to the items in the house where the girls do.1 (3m 2s):So I'm able to be here and, and, and be like, this is, this is, I'm okay here. I don't feel overwhelmed. And I think that is a sign that I'm doing the right thing in terms of helping out in this way if I got here and I was like, Oh my God, it's too much. But I don't feel that. And I also think that like, one of the things that I did with Nancy and Dave over the last couple years is like, they were literally the only adults. Well, I'm an adult, only older adults my parents age who are like, Yes, go to California, you need to get out of here, get away from this. They were the, so I that made me trust them. And then we stayed, we had like weekly phone conversations, just like they would each be on a line.1 (3m 46s):It was hilarious. And we would talk for hours like maybe once every two weeks, a couple hours. And it was really like a parenting experience. So I feel very close to them and I, what I'm learning is that like, even if other people have different relationships with people, you can have your own. So I know that no one's perfect, but these were allowed, like, you're allowed Gina to have your own relationship with your mom and with your even dead people than other people have.2 (4m 17s):Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. Back to the plane for a minute. In these situations, what do the flight attendants do, if anything?1 (4m 28s):Oh, well I always talked to them before because I, so what I say, I always like to, because Dave, who's, who's a hypnotherapist and a psychologist, he said, Listen, you know, he used to be afraid. And he said his thing was talking to the flight attendants before and just saying like, Hey, I have a phobia. I'm a therapist. I'm working through it. Like just to make contact, right. I don't, I didn't say that exactly, but what I said was, Listen, I say, Hi, how are you? We struck up a strike up, a teeny conversation in that moment where I'm going to my seat and I say, Listen, I'm going to Chicago to like mc a memorial for like someone who's like my mom. So if you see me, so if you see me crying like it's normal. And they're like, Oh, thanks for telling me. And they're, they usually don't get freaked out.1 (5m 11s):I'm also not like intense about it. They do nothing. And you know what they, I think and, and she said, Thanks for telling me. I really appreciate it. Because I think they'd rather know what the fuck is going on with someone than thinking someone's about to hijack the goddamn plane.2 (5m 29s):Exactly. I was thinking that exact same thing. I was thinking like, especially right now, all they know is it's heightened emotion or it's not, you know, like they, they, they have no, they would have no way of differentiating, you know, what's, what's safe and what's dangerous. So I can't believe nobody's ever done this before. But we, another project that we could do is like airplane stories. I mean there is such, this is one of the few points of connection that humanity still has people that is who can afford to you fly a plane anywhere. But this thing of like, it sucks and it's dirty and it's growth and people, people's, you know, hygiene comes into question and if they're sitting next to you and it's uncomfortable and it's not the glamorous thing that it used to be even when we were kids.2 (6m 21s):So it's, it's one of those moments unless you have a private plane where you're sort of forced to reckon with like the same thing that everybody else in humanity has to reckon with. But even on a private plane, and I would argue even especially on a private plane, there is the fear of your imminent death. Like the, the, it doesn't matter if you're afraid of flying or not, it crosses your mind.1 (6m 42s):Well, yeah. And I, my whole thing is like, I, I don't know what would happen if we all started talking about that on a plane. So like what would that be like? So, okay, when I was traveling last with home from San Francisco with Miles, I sat next to this woman, Miles was in the middle and the woman on the aisle was this woman. We were both afraid. And we had this idea for a fricking television show, right? Which was two, it's called the Fearful Flyers and then two people on each side and a famous person in the middle seat. And we would interview them as we, we flew to one, take our mind off it, but two really delve into our own fear and did the person of any fear and get to know a celebrity at the same time.1 (7m 27s):Now she never texted me back. So she's clear, clearly she's not that interested. Cause I was like into it. I was like, what if we get, I know, I know. And she's not even in the industry. She's like, so, but I was like, hey fearful flyer friend, I think we should talk about our idea. Crickets radio silence. So whatever. She's moved on. Like she just used me for the, for the Yeah. No entertainment, which is fine,2 (7m 53s):Heightened emotional space. She, she bonded with you, but now she's back to like all of her armor and all of her gear and she doesn't wanna think about flying until she has1 (7m 60s):To. No. Right, right. Exactly. It's not something that she wants to delve into on her free time, you know, So, which I don't blame her. But anyway, so yeah, it's an interesting thing. Like I literally ha I sit out the window, I sit by the window and I have to look out the window. And this guy next to me who I met, who's like a vet and who is like, was self-medicating with alcohol and who is a gay vet was really interesting. But he, everyone copes differently. But it was in, at one point I thought, oh, I actually don't wanna be distracted by him because I'm really doing some deep work with myself as I look out the window and also your version of like getting through this experience, I, it does not feel safe to me, which is drinking and like just, I cannot distract myself.1 (8m 52s):People are like, Oh, read a book. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? That's like telling someone I don't know who's having a seizure to read a book. Like you, you, it's not gonna work. Right. I look out the window and, and do therapy with myself. That is what I2 (9m 7s):Do. I love it. That's great. I think everybody who is listening to this, who has any kind of fear or intimidation around flying should, should do that. I don't know if you were getting to this, but I thought you were gonna say something about like how, Oh, you said, you said what if we all talked about it now? Every positive communal experience with the exception of theater that I've ever had, I've gone into unwillingly at the beginning and you know, sort of rejecting it and then come out the other side. Like that was amazing. You know, the thing that you experience, the communal thing, the thing of like, we're all in this together, which we are all like so actually parched for, but we, people like me would never really kind of actively sort of approach.2 (9m 48s):It has to be thrust upon me these like healing group experiences, but amen. In fact, they could make a whole airline that is sort of about that. Like this is, you know, this is the emotional express. Like this is where we're gonna talk about our fear of flying. Cuz everybody's crying in airplanes too. Being in the actual airplane does something to you that makes everybody much more vulnerable than there are otherwise.1 (10m 13s):It's so crazy. I agree. It could be emotional express and you could deal with it, but you would know getting on this plane, like people are gonna talk about their feelings and you shouldn't get on it. So the guy on the aisle2 (10m 26s):Yesterday, No,1 (10m 28s):No alcohol. Oh yeah, no alcohol. The guy on the aisle like hated everything about the flight, Right? He was like shaking his head. He was annoyed. But then he had a Harvard sweatshirt on. I was like, oh my god. But he was like middle aged guy, like coating or I don't know what he was doing, but he like hated everything. He shook his head when they told him to like put his bag under the seat. I'm like, listen, you know what's going on here. This is not your first time in an airplane, Why are you shaking your head? But okay. But then he said something that was hilarious and I said, I'm gonna put that in a script. Which, which was, I don't even know what he was responding to. It was probably my seat mate saying something. But he said, Listen, it's not ideal, but nobody asked me.2 (11m 13s):And1 (11m 13s):I, I'm gonna, and I said to him, I said, Listen, I am gonna put that in a script. Like the mother-in-law is meeting her future daughter-in-law and, and says, Listen, she's not ideal, but nobody asked me. And he laughed and then he said, it's true. And I said, Yeah, I know it's true. That's why. And so then he was like, then he was like free to talk about his disgruntledness, which was fine cuz then it was like he was more human. But at, he was hilarious. He was like the, like he's one of those people that like during and it was really turbulent at one point. And I was like, Okay, here we go. It's turbulence part of the deal. It's okay, fine. And he was like, just like angry at the turbulence.2 (11m 57s):I love1 (11m 58s):It. Which I thought was brilliant. Yeah, I'm like, but like, who are you angry at? Just like the turbulence. And he was like, ugh. And like angry at air flow. I don't know if2 (12m 7s):At air current1 (12m 8s):He was like pissed off. I was laughing. I was like, this guy's awesome. He just hates everything. It's, it is not ideal, but nobody asks me.2 (12m 17s):So what's so great about that? And so what's so great about you is like, you enga that's how you always engage people from this perspective of like, yeah, whatever is going on with you that you think is like nobody else wants to hear about, I want to hear about it. Because that's because that's what you spend your time doing. You know, bravely engaging with yourself. They, we need a person like you in all of these sort of like high stress situations that people have to do. Usually at some point in your life you have to get on an airplane. Usually at some point in your life you you have to speak, you know, in front of a group of people. You have to have the funeral. We need these sherpa's, these guides to kind of give us, basically just give us permission to have our own human experience that we have somehow talked ourselves out of having, even though it's completely unavoidable.1 (13m 3s):Yeah. And I also really respect people who now who have to just, I mean I, it's not my way, but like, shut down and they're like, Nope, I'm just gonna, they can do it. They're like, either it's drinking or whatever it is to distract themselves. They're like in it, whether it's the disgruntledness or other people, they like just go to sleep immediately. They like sit down and they're like out. And I don't think it's relaxation. I think they're just like checked. They're like,2 (13m 30s):I have, Oh yeah, no, they're, I cannot be conscious right now. I wonder what makes the difference between people who are afraid of flying and not, I have never once felt afraid of flying, even during turbulence. I've never once had the thought like, this plane is going down. I mean, maybe that changed a little bit when I had kids and I was always the one in the aisle, like holding, I had to hold my babies the entire flight because, because it must be a natural thing to be freaked the fuck out to be on an airplane. Even a baby freaks out to be on an airplane. So there's something to it. But what makes a difference between people who just, I've never had that fear.1 (14m 8s):I I know it is a foreign, it is like it is. I don't know either. And I, I I, there's other people like that have, What was the fear someone was talking about the other day? Oh, I have a friend who like literally cannot have their blood drawn. They have to go under almost. Wow. They almost have to be sedated to have their blood drawn. Me. I I stick out my arm. I don't give a, it's just not my thing. Yeah. I don't have any charge at it at all.2 (14m 37s):Well,1 (14m 38s):You could take my blood right now.2 (14m 40s):I used to have this theory that you grew up afraid of the things that your parents basically were afraid of so that they therefore communicated to be afraid of. But that I now think that that's completely untrue. My daughter is scared to death of spiders. She, she's haunted by this fear that when she goes into the bathroom at night, there's gonna be a spider. If there's the tiniest and we live in the woods, there's sp there's all kinds of insects that make that their way into our house. I have, there's not a spider I've ever encountered that I've been afraid of now. Mice and rats. That's what I'm afraid of. My mom was afraid of snakes. She did not transfer when I was younger.2 (15m 20s):I felt afraid of them too. And then one day I was like, eh, it's fine. Yeah. I don't think I have any coral with these snakes actually. I think it's completely fine. Right. So I, I don't, So it's something inherent in us that identifies an ob I think it's maybe like we've, I for whatever reason, this becomes the object of all of your fears. And it could be a spider, it could be a plane, it could be, you know, clowns. Like it's for a lot, for a lot of people. It's1 (15m 47s):Fun. Oh remember, Okay, Larry Bates, who we went to school with, and he's open, I think about this. Yeah, he is cuz he's, he's talked about it. I, he had a fear of muppets, like an intense Muppet fear. And I was like, Wait, are you, I thought it was a joke. I was like, Wait, Muppets, Like, okay, they're a little weird, but like, but like a phobia of a Muppet. And I was like, what the actual fuck. I couldn't like,2 (16m 14s):I just, that's it's not, dude, my version of that is I was afraid of mariachi bands.1 (16m 22s):Wait, mariachi bands?2 (16m 24s):Yes.1 (16m 25s):Like bands. Yeah.2 (16m 26s):Well, so growing up, growing up in, well, we love Mexican boots, so we were always going out for Mexican food. And back then, I don't know why every time you went to have Mexican food, you know, dinner, there was a mariachi band. Like, I, I, it doesn't, I haven't seen a mariachi band in such a long time, but it used to be that you could not go out for a Mexican restaurant dinner without a mariachi band. And I, it got to a point where they couldn't, first it was like, we can't go to have Mexican food anymore. It was like, we can't go to a restaurant. I just, I didn't want these mariachis and, and it must have just, I think it was the bigness of the hat and the loudness of the music right next to your table when you think about it, it's actually, so it's strange, right?2 (17m 9s):Yeah. That you're sitting at your table, like with your family looking, you know, whether you're gonna order the chalupa or the enchilada. And then it's just like, extremely loud, very good, but extremely loud and, and in huge presence. People sitting, you know, right next to your table.1 (17m 24s):Yeah. I mean it doesn't really make a lot of sense as a business move either. Like what, why it would like, it would like make people, unless you're drunk again, if there's alcohol involved, it changes everything. But you can't really drink as a toddler. So, but I think that like, maybe there's something, I wonder if there's something about that of like all the attention being on you. Like, listen, when there's, like, there are kids I know at restaurants when they, when it's their birthday and they come over to sing that they fucking hate it. It's too much attention on them. And adults too. And I can kinda understand that. It's like too much pressure, right? There's like a2 (17m 59s):Pressure. Well, you just unlocked it for me now I know exactly what it is. You said something about being drunk and I think at that age, I have always equated loud and raucous with drunk. You know, as a kid, I knew when anybody in my family was being loud raus. And, and actually, I'm sorry to say even especially when they were having fun. When I'm in a room, when I'm in a house and everybody's laughing, you know, my, it's like, I I I I just get that fear. I just get that fear sort of rise up. It's different now that I'm older and I've, you know, been in more situations where that hasn't been scary to me. But that's what it was with the mariachis, The loud and the festive and the music meant like, somebody's going to say something that they really regret.2 (18m 44s):Somebody's gonna get a dui, somebody's going to jail.1 (18m 50s):Hey, let me run this by you.2 (18m 58s):So imperfectly into the thing I wanted to run by you today, given that it is Halloween season and this episode will air the day after Halloween. But so I, you know, Well, actually no. Okay, I'll, I'll start with this. I am one of those people that desperately seeks paranormal experiences. And I'm almost always disappointed when I'm, when I'm actively seeking it, going to a psychic, going to a medium, going to, it's, oh, you know, it's, I'm never the one in the crowd where the medium goes. Like, I've got a message for you.2 (19m 40s):And I've, I've gotten to the point where I'm like, my family's like just not that into me. They don't wanna, you know, the people have passed over, like, don't wanna, don't wanna come talk to me, don't wanna give me messages. But I I, if you're out there, if you're listening, ancestors drop a line. I'd love to know what the deal is. I'd love to know what messages you might have from me because I actually really do believe that that can happen. Maybe it just needs to happen with people who are on a higher spiritual plane than any of,1 (20m 9s):I mean, I don't, I don't believe that for a sec. I mean, it could be true. What do I know? But I think, look, I do believe right, that most shit happens when you're not expecting it paranormal or not. Like all this shit that has happened to me, most of it has been not at all when I would've planned or thought or, and so I have one ghost story. I don't know if you know, it happened in Great Barrington, Do you know this story?2 (20m 42s):Yes. But tell it again. It's a great story.1 (20m 44s):Okay. Okay. I could care. I was like 21. All I wanted was to be skinny and have boys like me. I didn't give a fuck about ghosts, I didn't care about anything. So I'm in Great Barrington in edits, Wharton's the old Lady author's house, and I'm the stage manager. And this guy I was in love with was in this play that took place. The monkeys paw took place in the, they were doing an adaptation of the Monkeys Paw in Edith Wharton's parlor on Halloween. It was like the creepiest thing, but I didn't give a fuck because I was in love with the guy who was seriously haunted. Yes, yes, yes. Super, super Berkshire's, whatever. I didn't care.1 (21m 24s):I was like, ah, I wanna, I want this guy to like me. I don't give a fuck about any of that. Okay. So I, my job was to literally move the furniture after the rehearsal to the storage room. Okay. In this big mansion. Okay, fine. They're getting notes and I'm just probably daydreaming about how I can make this guy like me. And I'm moving furniture and I go into this little storage room and of course people talk about the house is so big and haunted, I could care less. So I'm in there and down the road from the house is a barn where they're doing the play Ethan from and Okay, Ethan from, there's like a sledding accident in the play. So he's on a sled and they start screaming and the guy is hurt.1 (22m 4s):So another show was going on at the, in the barn. And I'm like, ah, okay. So I'm moving the furniture and I hear this sled yelling and okay, I'm like, Oh, should they, I wish they would shut up. I was like, this is loud yelling. So then I, we finish our rehearsal and we're walking up back, me and the cute guy and some other people, and all I'm thinking about is how can I get this guy like me? And like, literally, and also now I see pictures of him and I'm like, Dear God. Anyway, so, so, oh my God, why didn't someone, I mean, you should, someone should have just slapped me like 10 times and been like, No. But anyway, but that's what I was, I was all about him. I had a thing for Canadians. Anyway, so, so like, I just loved the guys that was like international to me, Canadians.1 (22m 48s):Anyway, okay. So it was like all the Canadians. So we're walking in the dark to our cars and, and I say, and we walk by the barn and I'm like, Oh my gosh, you guys, they were so loud tonight when I was moving the furniture. Like they should shut up. Like, I, I wonder how it's gonna be when we're doing the Monkeys Past show. We're gonna hear Ethan from, and like every, there's like four of us. Everyone stopped and I'm like, What, what's wrong with you? Two or three or whatever. And they were like, like turned white. I've never seen this happen in human beings. And I was like, What is happening? I thought I said something wrong or like, of course, like I was bad. And I'm like, What?1 (23m 28s):And they're like, Oh God. And I was like, What? What are you punk me? What's happening? And they're like, There was no show tonight.2 (23m 37s):Ooh. Even though I knew that was coming the story, it still gave me a chill. Today on the podcast we are talking to Tina Parker. Yes. Tina Parker, the one and only Francesca Litty from the Smash Hit series, critically acclaimed and me acclaimed Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad Tina's a delight. She's a director, she directs for theater. She's got a theater company in Dallas, Texas called Kitchen Dog. And she was so much fun to talk to and I just know you are going to love our conversation with Tina Parker.2 (24m 33s):Oh, nice. Okay. Well I wanna get all into Kitchen Dog, but I've gotta start first by saying congratulations Tina Parker. You survived theater school5 (24m 44s):So long ago. My Lord, so2 (24m 46s):Long ago. Yeah. I I have no doubt that, you know, the ripple we, we've learned, it doesn't matter how long ago you graduated, the, the feeling of survival persists and the ripple effects of it persists.5 (24m 59s):Absolutely.1 (25m 1s):When I had longer hair, people used to always ask if I played Bob Oden Kirk's assistant on better. And I would say no. But I adore the human that plays her. It's brilliant performance and I love it. So2 (25m 17s):There you go. It really is. And I, and I wanna talk a lot about Better Call Saul, but you went to smu, which I did. You interviewed the current dean, I think he's the dean. Blake Hackler.5 (25m 30s):Yeah. Chair of Acting I think.2 (25m 31s):Chair of Acting. Okay, fantastic. I'm I'm assuming you guys weren't there. No, you never crossed5 (25m 36s):Path. But we've actually, he and I have crossed paths a bit professionally nowadays. Yes. Because we've, we, Kitchen Dog has done a few of his new play readings cuz he's a playwright also. So he's, he had at least two or three plays read in our New Works festival and he's always helped me out when I need recommendations for young people to come in and read. Cause you know, we're all old at Kitchen Dog.2 (25m 56s):Fantastic. Shout out to Blake. So SMU is a fantastic school. Did you always wanna go there? Did you apply to a bunch of different places? How did you pick smu?5 (26m 9s):Well, it's kind of a ridiculous story. I, my senior year of high school, you know, of course like a lot of people went to theater school. You're all like, I'm the superstar. My high school. Like, all right, I get all the leads. I'm Auntie Mame and Mame. You know what? Ridiculous.1 (26m 25s):I just have to say I was Agnes Gooch and I, I was the Gooch. Were you5 (26m 30s):Agnes? I was ma I was anti Mame in the stage play version. Oh yes.1 (26m 35s):I wa yeah, yeah, me too. I was Agnes Gooch. I wanted to be anti Mame, but so anyway, always a goo, always a Gooch. Never a Mame over here. But anyway, So tell us, So you were the start.5 (26m 46s):Yeah, you know, like everybody who went to theater school, everybody was the start at their high school. But I, my dad unfortunately had a stroke when I was a, and he was only, my parents are super young and so he was 40, I don't know. So it was very unusual. It happened like at the beginning of my senior year. And so my family was, it was all kind of chaotic. My senior year was very chaotic and I was also like the president of the drama club and, and we, you know, and all the people, you know, all the competitions every weekend. And so it was just a, there was a lot going on and my family stuff got into disarray because my dad ended up losing his job because he was sick for so long. And, and it was so I screwed up.5 (27m 28s):Like I missed a lot of applications. I never, I didn't really, it was one of those where it just kind of snuck up on me and I didn't really know the places I wanted to go. I had missed like certain deadlines because of the fall. And so I, SME was still one of the ones that was open. And so I did, was able to schedule an audition cuz you had to get into the school, but also, you know, get into the theater program. Like you could get into the school, not get into the theater program, you know, it is what it is. Luckily I still had time to do the audition, so I did that and then my grandmother literally walked my application through the admin, through the academic part because something I had missed, I think.5 (28m 13s):And my grandmother is very like, I don't know, it's hard to say no to my grandmother. So she went and they took this great care of her and she just kind of walked through and she's like, told the whole situation. And I mean, I had good grades. Like it wasn't, you know, like I did get in, I got scholarships and all this shit. Like I had, I had good grades, so it wasn't like I was like, my grandmother did it, you know, But she did walk it through. She's a thousand percent charmer. And then the, as far as the audition goes, I was an hour late because I got lost. And then there's this weird horseshoe at SMU cuz you know, go ponies or whatever bullshit that is, there was no parking.5 (28m 55s):And so I was like, got, was super late and I was just like, just like so sweaty and like, you know, you, everything's high drama when you're in high school, right? So you're like, this is is my last chance to be a doctor. I'm gonna have to work at the, you know, fucking shoe store that I was working at or whatever. It was forever. And so1 (29m 15s):I would, I, after I became an actor, I was still working at the cheese store after I went to, But the other thing I wanna say is like, also your grandma sounds like charming, but also like, she might be in the mob.5 (29m 25s):Well, yeah, she's totally like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. She's, she's she, she can get it done. She's the wife of a Methodist minister too. So she, she, she knows how she can, she can read a person and figure out like, this is what you need, you know, And she's just sweet, like, you know, she's charmer. But I ran into someone else's audition, like that's what I, I ran and they then the school, the school is all built, the school is all built crazy. So if you don't know the school, you get lost. And I was like, went and I going in the wrong places and I was an hour late and I was like, and like, I literally like, this is it not open the door. And they're like, somebody's in there like, like doing the thing. And I'm like, oh my god. And they're like, you know, and I was like that.5 (30m 7s):And I was just like, Oh God. And so I go and sit in the room and I just remember them coming in. I was like, I'm really sorry, you know, like the kid was like, whoever, I don't think they got in. And they, I just remember them looking at me like, you know, and they left and I was like, great, this is awesome. And then I go into my audition, which I chose the worst pieces, like the worst of course. Like, I think it was like, I can't even remember the name of the playwright, but it's like a really, really dramatic monologue from like bird bath, you know, My head is not a hammer, like something ridiculous. And then I also chose to sing, which I'm not the greatest. I mean, I can sing, I can sing karaoke, but not like seeing like I'm a musical theater actor. I, I, that's not me.5 (30m 47s):I think I chose seeing like the something that Nights on Broadway or some bullshit, like, you know, the Neon Lights On? No, No. On Broadway. Like ridiculous. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like, luckily, luckily I did get in the interview part and then they're like, turn your, they're like, turn your monologue into standup comedy.2 (31m 6s):Oh wow. I never heard of that in audition. What a cool tactic.5 (31m 10s):Well, and it was also, I think they could tell that I was so freaked out and so nervous, but then that like, the interview portion went great. And so they're like, you know, then they were like, Hey, try like play around with this. And then like, the bad song that I had selected that I had practiced with my cousin who could play guitar or something, they're like, do some dance moves with it. So I was just like, I don't dance, but I started doing these ridiculous things and they're like, Yeah, good. They laughed and you know, I, I think it also let me relax. They're2 (31m 38s):Like, you are crazy enough to be in theater school. Wait, you guys, should we have a documentary series about people who are auditioning for theater school? Because honestly like the stakes are so high for so many people. I bet there's 1 billion stories. Yeah, I mean, some of which we've heard on, on, on the podcast, right? Boz? Yeah,1 (31m 58s):I think we do. I think we do. And all the, I just remembered that in my monologue was from the play about the woman who traps the rapist in her house and puts him in a fireplace.5 (32m 10s):Oh, the burning bed or whatever. Not the burning bed, but the, Yeah,1 (32m 14s):Yeah. And it's, it's, it's William Masterson.5 (32m 17s):Yes,1 (32m 18s):Yes, yes. And, and she has a fire poker and she's poking the rapist and I am 16 at the time. Oh, and I what? And a virgin, not that that really matters, but like the whole thing is not good. And why, why did I do that? But yet I got, But5 (32m 35s):That's what this piece was the same thing. It was so dark. And so like, this person is mentally ill and she's like, I get, there's not a hammer.1 (32m 41s):Don't hit me bear.5 (32m 42s):And you're just like, What?1 (32m 44s):I'm like it would've been, I mean I know this is terrible to say, but what if they told me to turn that into standup? Like that would be dark, dark, dark humor. But any, Okay, so you, you clearly like, what I love is that smu like knew how to take a teenagers anxiety and like shift it and so good on them, those auditioners like good on them. So you did that, you did you walk out of there feeling like, okay, like it started off really wonky, like me being late, but like I have a chance. Or did they tell you, when did they tell you5 (33m 15s):I felt good like that? When I, after I left I was like, okay, you know, like I wasn't sure like, cuz I was like, it was weird that they told me to change it to comedy, but I think it was good, you know, And like I felt like the interview part went good and they were, at the time, my class, this was the first year that they, they eliminated the cuts program. So what happened is they instead they had the BFA acting track and then they had, well what was proposed anyways, they changed our, what our degree was, but it was supposed to be ba in theater studies. And so if you were interested in directing, you know, playwriting, whatever, stage management, tech, whatever, and then acting you could also have, so you kind of chose focuses, but that was it.5 (34m 2s):And it had more of a little more academic focus. And so cuz before me, the classes, everybody went in as an actor. You did first two years and then they kind of just cut you basically. And were like, you're in this free fall of like a program that wasn't really planned.1 (34m 18s):Yeah. I mean like, that's how our school was too. And like half the people didn't end up graduating and it was a racket and now they don't do it anymore. But that5 (34m 27s):Was a huge, yeah, they stopped my year.1 (34m 30s):Okay. So, so was it that the people that maybe weren't get getting into the acting program went to theater studies? Is that how it was proposed?5 (34m 37s):I think that's what they were trying to do. I think they were also trying to figure out a way, or they were try some people left. I think they were also trying to keep their numbers up. And I think they also had people who were like, Hey we're, I'm an actor but I'm also a director. Why can't you make, get me some classes here? You know, like, I wanna have the class. If you're gonna cut me, that's fine. But like, I'm interested in these things too. Can there be a program? And so they kind of were building that program, like they had it out there, you know, and that when they took our class, we had very set paths of like, and we had the same two years together as a group. So freshman and sophomore year. And then we split into our kind of disciplines and they kind of still, like when I was, when we were juniors, kind of like, here's some things and we're like, okay, but our class was kind of a hard ass and we're like, where's our, where's our, where's this class?5 (35m 24s):Where's that? So we were always in the office saying, no, this, this like afterthought of a class, this should then fly and you know, I'm gonna direct a main stage or I wanna direct a studio. And they're like, Oh. And they're like, No, this is how it's gonna work or whatever. So like, yeah, me and Tim and Tim, who actually is one of my coworkers, a kitchen dog and then a couple other folks were pr I think we turned the, the chair at the Times hair white because we would go in there and be like, No, this isn't gonna work.2 (35m 53s):You just, you just made me realize that our, this, all the schools who had cut programs who didn't have another track to go into after were missing out on such a revenue stream. Right? Like our, at our school. Yeah. All the people who got cut like went to this other college and I'm thinking, what, what, When was the meeting where somebody goes, Oh my god, you guys, we should just have something here for them to do instead of sending them to another school. That's hilarious. Well,5 (36m 17s):And I think too, they find like, you know, like that there's kids that truly have talent for, you know, like a playwright or director, but then they're also really good actors. Which I think, you know, I think it's really good for people who are like, I am primarily like, I'm a mix Tim I would say who my coworker is is primarily a director, but, but it's great for both of us to go through acting, you know, like that's been, that's, but1 (36m 38s):I'm noticing is there's no, like our school had no foresight into anything, so it was like they didn't, So that's a problem in a, in a university.5 (36m 49s):Yeah. It, here's problem. Right.1 (36m 50s):So okay, so at your school, what was your experience like on stage the star? Were you And then, Oh, okay. And then, and then my other follow up question is, man, the follow up question is you're launching into the professional world. What did your school do or not do to prepare you? And what was your departure like into like, okay, now you're 22, live your life.5 (37m 11s):Bye. I would say for, I was kind of a mix. Like I had a lot of opportunities while I was there and some self created as far as directing opportunities. And we had an interesting system of like, there was a studio theater and we were able to have, we had this studio system, which a lot of non-majors would come and see plays because they were required, blah, blah blah. But so we got to direct a lot, you know, And, and Tim really fought and he got directed main stage and I was, I was, my senior year I was a lead in a play, you know, like just all sorts of things. Like I had a lot of great opportunities at smu. I think I had some also, I had some good teachers and directors while I was there.5 (37m 53s):So when I was a junior, you know, they had Andre De Shields in to, to as a guest artist, which really stirred the pot because he was not about like, let's talk about your objectives, let's talk, let's really do some table work. Like, he was like, Why aren't you funny? I don't get that shit. Like, go, go out. Why aren't you funny like this? Or come up with some, some dancing or whatever, you know. He was awesome. Like, I loved it. Like cuz we were doing funny thing happen on the way to the forum. I was one of the, you know, concubines or whatever the dance, I was Tinton Nebula, the bell, the supposed to be a, like a bell ringer, you know, like sexy dancer. And he said, I reminded him of some lady he lived with in Amsterdam. So instead I was a clogger and had bells and had giant hair that went out to here.5 (38m 37s):And yeah. And so he was like, he was great. Like, and but it really gave you the experience, it makes a lot of people crazy because he was like not interested in their process. What he was interested in was like results and like hitting your marks and like, you know, like he had sent me away and he was like, come up with 16 beats to that end I'm gonna see something funny. And so I came back in and did it and he was like, yes. You know, like it was, it was awesome. Like he would, he would really was a real collaborator.2 (39m 3s):That's fantastic. And, and actually I'm so glad you told that story because, and I, I won't, I wanted you to get back to launching and everything, but the thing about the Andre Des Shield story that you just told, I can see why you like that because that seems like you a person who has the training and the gravitas and whatever to like take their craft very seriously, but at the end of the day, you're there to entertain and get the job done, right? Like you don't, you're not so precious about your own self. Yeah. Which is really interesting.5 (39m 30s):No, and I mean it was, it was so important I think just because, you know, like everywhere you, everywhere you go like, you know, you don't always work at the same place and everybody's process and everybody's way of rehearsal or whatever's wildly, wildly different. And so I thought it was great because you know, you're not going to go always walk into some place where they're gonna coddle you or, or, or take the time or whatever, you know, like it's different.1 (39m 56s):The other thing is that like we, what I just hit me is that we've interviewed a ton of people and I'm trying to like think about like what does a conservatory do wrong is I think they forget that it's about entertainment. Like there becomes such a focus on process and inner work. What about the fucking entertainment value of like entertaining the audience? Like that goes out the window, which is why the shit is not funny most of the time. Cause it's like so serious, you're like, no, this is a fucking farse. Like make people laugh. Yeah. And it's like, I love that, that you're, you remind me of like an entertainer and I, I feel like I needed entertainment Conservatory.5 (40m 35s):Not, well I would say that, I mean I still use a lot of the training that I used at SMU like, like at Kitchen Dog. I mean this was founded by SMU grads. So you know, a lot of the doing table work and talking about what you want and all that kinda stuff like that is definitely part of what we do. But what was cool about Andre and I love and Des Shields with all my heart like was that you found a way to make your process work in his framework and, and he got results. Like the, our show was funny as hell, like in the singing was great, the dancing was great and it looked great cuz the Eckhart's did the costumes and all the sets and it felt like we were in a professional show.5 (41m 15s):Like it was, it was exciting and fun to do. So I thought it was a great way to kind of get ready for what it was gonna be like. Cuz I remember auditioning for the show and he was like, Where's your headshot? And we're like, nobody told us. And he's like, This is an audition, why don't you have, I don't understand why you don't have a headshot. And you're just, just like, oh God. Like, and it was embarrassing, you know? And then he was like, All right, I wanna do the, he's doing some improvy things in that in the thing and people couldn't get like, people were like, and he is like, just jump in man. And he was like fantastic. And you know, you get a call back and you're like, okay, I see how this works. So that was great. And we also had a lady named Eve Roberts, same thing. She was pretty brutal too in that, you know, if you weren't ready to go, she wasn't gonna baby you.5 (42m 1s):So she would just basically like you're oh, so you don't know your lines. Sit the fuck down, Sit down, who's ready to work? Cuz it was an audition class and she was a film actor with a lot of experience and it was auditions for both film and and stage. But she, if you weren't ready, but if you were ready, she would work you out. Like you would get a great workout, you'd leave with a great monologue. And so I was like, always be prepared for that, you know, cuz she will, she will, she will get you if you're not,2 (42m 27s):Honestly it really sounds like SMU did a much better job than most, most of what we hear about in terms of like getting real working actors and, and it's a tough thing. I I, you know, I don't really blame any school that doesn't, It's a tough thing if it's a working actor, then they're working, they don't have time to like commit to the, the, the school teaching schedule. But at the same time, like if you don't have any of that, then you are really, you're experiencing all that on the job. Which, you know, which is fine too. But it sounds like SMU did a better job of preparing for you, preparing you for a career.5 (42m 57s):I would say somewhat. Yeah. I mean there are things that I, you know, as, as I entered life because I was of the mind when I, when I graduated, I was really torn about whether or not to go to grad school or not. And I really didn't know cuz I really, I, and I still to this day have a split focus. Like I act and direct both in the, you know, in the theater. Like I do both. So I wasn't sure which way I wanted to go and you really had to decide to go to grad school. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna take a year off is what I decided. And I waited tables, lived life, you know, whatever, didn't even really do any theater or stuff.5 (43m 39s):But I tended to like work back at smu. So like they would have me come back and like I would sub in and cover like Del Moffitt who was the man who was the auditioner who auditioned me originally and his improv class. Like I'd come in and do cover him for a month if he went on sabbatical, you know, stuff like that. Or like, and I directed a couple main stages there. That was it. So I just decided end up, I started working more in Dallas and ended up just staying in Dallas. Dallas was not what I plan where I planned to stay. Like I kept in my mind, you know, thinking like I'm gonna move to Chicago. Like that was my dream was living in Chicago and because I guess I'm a tourist and stubborn and lazy, I don't know, sometimes you just start working and you're like, nah, just stay here.5 (44m 26s):I'm working and I can kind of do what I want. And then I got an agent and I was like, oh there's this part of the, you know, like I think in 95 or whatever, you know, cause I graduated in 91, so you just start working and then it's like, why do I want to go and start over? And it was just kind of a hard thing to do. Do I have regrets sometime about not doing Absolutely. Like sometimes I look back and I'm like, oh man. But as far as just preparing, I think it's just hard to get prepared. Cuz I think, like, I wish I left with like, and they're doing this now, which is great, but like left with more of like what's, you know, good, what's a good headshot? What's what, what, you know, how do you walking into a room, how do you handle it?5 (45m 7s):You know, like there's certain things that I feel like they could train and give you a little bit more experience, life experience in it. But I think they have some new, I know they have, I know they have film acting now, a little bit of film acting stuff there, which is always good just cuz that's how a lot of people make money.2 (45m 26s):I, I am, I'm happy to say because we've had, we've had this conversation so many times with people about the way that schools didn't prepare you. Somebody's been getting the message about this. My son is in high school and he goes to this like auxiliary performing arts program. It's like half day his regular high school and half day this and he does a seminar once a week on the business of music. And you know, what, what kind of jobs you're gonna have to do to keep, you know, to pay the rent while you're waiting between gigs, like is very brass tack. So, so the message has gotten through, thankfully.5 (45m 58s):Yeah, the business is important, man. That's how you survive. I mean, let's be real. I mean like that's, and it's not easy. Like if you're, like, if you're going to, I mean there's, sure there's two or three unicorns every so often, but for the most part you're gonna have to wait tables or cobble together bunch of odd jobs or cobble you know, like all these little, like, I'm a, I'm gonna do the Asop Fs in the, in the elementary schools for three weeks or whatever, you know, like, and how do you make rent? You know, like that's, it's not glamorous for sure.2 (46m 27s):So what was the journey from graduating to founding Kitchen Dog with your classmates?5 (46m 33s):I actually am not a founder. So Kitchen Dog was founded by five SMU MFA students who were in the MFA program when I was an undergrad. So I, so I ate that old, thank God, but they founded it in 90, did their first show in 91, which I saw it was above a, it was above a pawn shop in deep with no air conditioner in May. It was very hot and fantastic, you know, Maria Ford has his mud, it was great. And so I did my first show with them in 93. So a few years after I graduated, which Tim, my classmate directed, he had come back, he was in Minnesota at the time and then I've just worked with Kitchen Dog ever since.5 (47m 15s):So I became a company member in 96, started working for the company as like an admin producer type person in 99 and then became co-artistic director when the founding ad left in 2005. So I've been here forever. I do not have children. I say that Kitchen dog is my grown mean child. You're1 (47m 36s):Grown mean, did you say mean?5 (47m 38s):Yeah, I did say mean sometimes. Yeah, sometimes it's very, you know, temperamental.1 (47m 42s):Yeah, that's fine. That's, I mean, yeah, it's probably still better than kids, I'm just saying. Anyway. I mean, I don't have any, so, but okay, so what do you, this is what I always wanna ask people who have longstanding careers in theater and especially when they are co-artistic director or artistic director, why do you do it and why do you love it?5 (48m 6s):That's a really good question. I mean, it varies from time to time. I mean, I think that I, you know, Kitchen Dog has one of its tenants has always been about asking, you know, we do, we do, I hate the word edgy, but we do edgier plays, we do plays that are very much talking about the world around us. Challenging, you know, and we're in Texas, it's, you know, sort of purple state now, kind of exciting purple parts. At least Dallas is hopefully this election goes that way. So, you know, it's, we, I feel like our place in the Dallas Zeki is important because, you know, we're not doing, there are a lot of people that do traditional plays and do them well, you know, like straight ahead, you know, musicals or you know, the odd couple or whatever.5 (48m 53s):Notice this gesture, the odd couple and doing great. But we do new, we do newer plays. We're a founding member of the National New Play Network. And so that's kind of kept it relevant and kept it exciting. The work exciting to me. I love working with new plays and new ideas and we have a company of artists, some of which went to smu and I, I think I've stayed here this long because, you know, I feel like I can, I, I do, I am able to do the kind of work I wanna do. I'm able to choose the plays I wanna be in or direct and I feel like they're important for my community. And when it becomes that, it's not that then I need to leave or step downs is my feeling.5 (49m 37s):I mean, you know. Yeah, yeah. I dunno.2 (49m 40s):Yeah. So many people say that, that they, that they, they keep their allegiances to theater companies because it's, it's often the work that they really, you know, f feel moves them is very, you know, is very inspiring. But then you also got the opportunity to do a very good part in something that was commercial, which is breaking bad. So could you tell us anything about your, how you were born into that project?5 (50m 8s):Sure, sure. The, I, you know, I got an agent, did you know, I had no experience, no resume. So you did the couple of walk on, you know, like, I'm in the back of a bank commercial, fantastic. Or whatever, $50. I love it. Did that and Lucked into Robert Altman. Came to town and did a very terrible movie called Dr. T and the Women. But it was a fantastic experience and I was one of the nurses and I was on set every day pretty much. So he's told me, he told us, he's like, I'll make you a lot of money. You're not gonna be seen a lot. You'll be here every day. And we got out by five and I was able to do plays at night. Like it was, it was Chef's kiss the best, like you just kind of learned from the master.5 (50m 52s):Like he is a, he truly was a master god rest his soul. Anyway, so I started auditioning more, did some walkers cuz everybody does did Walker back in the time Walker, Texas Ranger. It's like1 (51m 2s):The er we'd all did the ER and the early ion in Chicago. That was my so walker, same thing. I love a good walker by the way, Texas Ranger.5 (51m 13s):So ridiculous. Yeah, I think one of my lines in one of the episodes I was in was like, you won't put this on your lighty friends tabs. Like it was so country. Anyway, it terrible. But so with the breaking bad thing, I, I read the sides. It actually was the, the person who was casting locals or whatever, not locals cuz it was shooting in New Mexico, but it was a woman in Tony Cobb Brock who was casting in Dallas. And so we got the sides, I got the call to come in and audition for it. I read it and I was like, you know, and this is the story I've told a lot, but it's the truth, which is I read it and I was like, It's gonna be a blonde, big boobs woman. Like that's what I thought when I read it, I was like, it's gonna be this.5 (51m 54s):That's what it's gonna be. Cuz there were a lot of jokes about boobs and you're killing me with that booty. Like there was a lot more to that scene. My first scene there was a lot more. So I was like, whatever. I was like, it's not, I'm, you know, I'm a plus size lady, I have brown hair, I have a, you know, deep voice. Like, oh well. So I was like, why do I feel good in, So I just wore, I remember I wore this Betsy Johnson dress that, cause I was kind of into Rocky Billy Swing at the time. This Betsy Johnson little dress with apples was real sexy and this little shrug and had my hair kind of fancy. And I was like, I'm wearing this. I don't give a shit. So I, I was like, I feel good in this, Who cares? So I walked in and there were a bunch of ladies that were blonde and had professional lady outfits on and I was like, Oh shit, I should have dressed like a secretary.5 (52m 38s):Why did I dress like this? Oh damn. And I was like, Okay, well whatever. It's, you're not, you're not gonna book this so who cares? Went in, I had a great audition, made Tony laugh and you know, it was what it was. And so I went away and I didn't hear anything for a while. So I was like, oh, I didn't book that. Oh well. And I was sitting in an audition for some commercial and I never booked commercials. I just don't, cuz I look one way and then my voice comes out and they're like, Oh, you can't play the young mom because you seem like Jeanine Garofalo or something. So your bite and smile is scary, ma'am. So I was waiting in the, waiting in the waiting room and my agent calls, or I got paged or, you know, cause it was that so long ago.5 (53m 23s):And she was like, Can you be on a plane in three hours? And luckily I wasn't doing a play at the time. And I said, Yeah, I can. And she's like, Well you booked it. You, you should go and so you should go home and pack and go to Southwests. And that was the story. And so I get there and you know, whatever found out that, you know, it's Bob and Kirk and start losing my mind and all this stuff. But what's crazy is, it's a crazy story. And then on when in season four finale, breaking bad spoiler alert, if you haven't watched it, but you're,2 (53m 52s):You're late if you haven't watched it. Like5 (53m 54s):It's, that's2 (53m 55s):On you.5 (53m 56s):Please watch it cuz I need, Mama needs to keep getting residuals. Cause she's, you know, not Yeah. But that final episode where I have a great scene with Brian Cranston. There's a, there was a podcast, Insider podcast, which I wasn't aware of, but they talked to Vince about, you know, Oh, who's she and how did you cast her? You know, cause this was my first like, actual scene, you know, like, boy, I don't, I have more than two lines. And he tells the story of like, and this, I just love this story, which is like, basically he had seen a lot of people that he didn't think was right. He wanted something. They kept showing him the same type and he was like, no, I I it needs to be something different. He's a different kind of guy. I wanted somebody who'd challenge him, you know, different looking. And the casting woman who had Kira, I can't remember her last name, but she had, you know, I'd auditioned for her a few times, been put on tape.5 (54m 43s):I don't know that it necessarily booked anything. She's like, Well there is this one girl, I think she's great. She's probably not right. I physically, she's prob I don't think she's right, but do you wanna see? And so he showed her and he was like, That's exactly what I want. And then I booked it. And so it's crazy. So you just never know. I mean I think that's the, I think that's the walkaway.1 (55m 2s):Okay. This is the,5 (55m 3s):This1 (55m 4s):Is the craziest thing. This is crazy. So I booked a show in New Mexico called Perpetual Grace. Kira cast it and Kira showed me to Steve Conrad, who's the showrunner in James Whitaker who was directing the episode. I looked nothing like the other people. My agent Casey called me and said, Can you get on a plane in three hours? You5 (55m 29s):Gonna1 (55m 29s):New Mexico? Same casting director, St. Kira,2 (55m 34s):The Kira, all these people, Kira,1 (55m 38s):Kira talk5 (55m 39s):Me. Well, and it's like that thing, you know, like you, you know, I think that's always the big takeaway, right? Is, is, and you know, and I, I think I read this not to feel like I'm fucking namedropping I'm not. But like, I read this I think in Brian's book too. But like, the thing is, is like all you can do is just like, just, they're calling you in for a reason. So you just have to say like, what is it in me? What's unique about me? That's this role? And lean into it and go for it in that regard because that's all you got. Like as soon as you start and I find myself doing this, I have to keep reminding myself, you know, to do this. Which is I'll read something like, oh it's this and try to play to what I think it is. Versus like, no, what is it in me?5 (56m 19s):That's this. And that's the thing I book when I do that, when I try to do the other other thing, you know? Totally. And start getting your own head.2 (56m 28s):The time5 (56m 28s):On here, God,2 (56m 30s):By the way, regarding name dropping, I never understand why anybody gets upset about that. I, it's like, well they're people that, you know, the people that you work with, they're people in your life. I mean, you're just saying their name. It's, it's not like you're cloud chasing. But anyway, that, that's insight. Girl. Walk me back to this day where you take three hours to get on the airplane. I wanna know how fast did you have to rush home to pack? What did you do? Did you have enough stuff? What was it like when you were on the airplane? Did you order a drink because you felt so fancy? Tell us everything.5 (56m 57s):Well, all I know is I had a bag and I got, I ran home, I had a roommate at the time, thank God. And I just said, Can you feed my cat? Cause I, I had a cat at the time. I was like, Please feed Loretta. And so I got this bag and just threw, it was really like, just stuff thrown in and I was like, do I need to bring the dress and shoes that I wore that, So I brought the whole outfit cuz I was like, cuz the jobs, some of the jobs I'd been on, I had to bring my own shit or whatever, you know, you have to bring your whole wardrobe and be like, Oh you want none of this? Great, I'll put it all back in my car. So I just threw that in there and then I just threw some random, I don't even know what I packed and, you know, ran to the airport, got on the plane, I think I did have a jack and coat cuz I was just like, I'm so freaked out in the plane.5 (57m 43s):Of course you know, you're going to New Mexico, so you're going over those mountains and you're just like, okay, I'm gonna die also great, but I don't wanna die. I just booked a big job or whatever. And then I remember the landing and getting in the van thing and they took me straight to the hotel and I, I remember opening cuz they, back then they, you know, you would get like your sides in an envelope like that in the, in the later years. That shit never, you never got printed stuff ever because people would steal it and whatever else. So I remember pulling it out and seeing Bob's name and freaking, oh, cause I was a huge Mr.5 (58m 23s):Show fan and I was just like, oh my god, oh my god. And I just remember calling my fr I have a friend Aaron Ginsburg, who's kind of an LA Hollywood dude or whatever. And I was like, Oh my god, oh my god. And he was like, Thanks for this spoiler. And I was like, Oh shit, I'm not supposed to tell people. And I was like, but I'm freaking out. And he was like, No, no, it's okay. I will tell no one. I was like, don't tell anyone I don't wanna get fired. But yeah, so I just remember sitting there and freaking out and trying to look at my lines and, you know, what am I, oh God. And then going there with my clo my little bag of dresses or whatever and they're like, we don't want any of this crap.2 (58m 57s):They're like, this is a high budget show. We got, we got costumes covered5 (59m 1s):Back then. I don't, I know back then, I don't know if they were that high budget, but it was interesting to me. The one thing is, is just how involved the showrunners of that show Peter and or Vince at the time, and then later Peter and Vince. But like, they have a color palette they have where they want the characters to go. Like I had, you know, that it got really paired down. I ended up having like, you know, just a few lines. But they took so many pictures, different outfits, different setups and like different color tones, like just setting what they wanted for my character. And I was like, holy shit or whatever. And they were, everybody was so, and everybody was so nice and friendly.5 (59m 43s):It's really remember your name to hear1 (59m 45s):And I'm glad you talked about it. Oh, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm in the rainstorm. So sorry. But like, it's so weird to be, I'm in the Midwest right now and I live in la so coming back here, I'm like, what is that noise? It's fucking fucked up and it's the fucking rain. Anyway, so what is so beautiful about this story to me is that even if we feel small, right? Like whatever, these people who are creating these iconic shows have such vision. There is literally no small character. Like these are their children and they have arcs they have. So it just makes me appreciate as creators, as artists, how much time love, energy goes into characters and storylines.1 (1h 0m 31s):And then we see maybe, maybe if we're lucky one eighth of it, but just know like the shit matters. Right? Like a5 (1h 0m 39s):Thousand percent. And that's the same thing with like, the same thing with Robert Altman. I mean like we were, you know, he, you know, I got to be part of one of those ma his signature long tracking shots, right? He, he would walk in the room and be like, Okay, what's going on in here? So what are you guys doing? What are you, what's happening? And I was like, Well where this, that? And he's like, Great, keep that. And when I come across I want you to be in this moment. You know? So like, and he's like, Teen are things like where he's following on my shoulder and Tina, I need you to do this and this is what's happening. And I've tried, I want, I'm just gonna think about some lines, just throw these out. You know? It was just, I don't know. And that's the same thing with Vince and with Peter. Like, they were really like, what is she wearing? Why is she wearing this? Where are you? Like, you know, what's going on?5 (1h 1m 19s):And like they were like, the scripts were so good. It was like you had to be letter perfect. Barry's like, oh it's a lot of improv. And I'm like, no,1 (1h 1m 26s):No. But2 (1h 1m 26s):Also it sounded like theater, the attention to, to detail and the, and the sort of like the vision and the way that, and you, that just comes through in the best series. The A tours you, you know, that they've thought about and5 (1h 1m 38s):They all love2 (1h 1m 38s):Theater, right? Yeah, right.5 (1h 1m 39s):They all love theater. They all do.2 (1h 1m 41s):So a bit ago you said something about how the, like lustiness that Saul, you know, Jimmy feels for Francesca didn't, you know, necessarily a lot of that didn't necessarily make it into at least your first episode, but it got revisited and Better Call Saul. And I really appreciated that because I was like, Oh yeah, I, I would've wanted to see more of that. You know, I, I wanted to see more of that like lush stage dynamic. But you had,5

Is it advisable to use LiDAR on an I2? What are the challenges and is it viable? In today's short episode we discuss if an LiDAR/RTK can be added on to an Inspire 2 and if there are benefits to doing so? Today's episode is brought to you by Drone U courses. Over many years on developing comprehensive training content for developing skilled pilots, Drone U has developed over 40+ courses over diverse applications and domains. Access them all through single Drone U membership. Visit our Drone U course page for more details on available courses. Today's question is from Steve, who would like to know if it's feasible to add LiDAR to an I2 to generate mapping deliverables. Thanks for the question Steve. In this short episode we quickly answer the question if LiDAR / RTK can be added on to an I2 for generating Mapping deliverables and if it is a viable option for pilots. We address first, the potential value addition to the drone deliverable that a unit can add to the I2 and if such a value addition is truly required for mapping deliverables. We then discuss potential challenges that pilots can face by such an addition and the most notable issue of additional weight on the drone and its implications. Alternatively, we discuss options for drone pilots to explore to ensure similar accuracy in deliverables but without compromising flight times. Tune in today to learn more about the viability of adding such an add-on to your I2 and understand the benefits and trade-offs involved. Get Your Biggest and Most Common Drone Certificate Questions Answered by Downloading this FREE Part 107 PDF Make sure to get yourself the all-new Drone U landing pad! Get your questions answered: https://thedroneu.com/. If you enjoy the show, the #1 thing you can do to help us out is to subscribe to it on iTunes. Can we ask you to do that for us real quick? While you're there, leave us a 5-star review, if you're inclined to do so. Thanks! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ask-drone-u/id967352832. Become a Drone U Member. Access to over 30 courses, great resources, and our incredible community. Follow Us Site – https://thedroneu.com/ Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/droneu Instagram – https://instagram.com/thedroneu/ Twitter – https://twitter.com/thedroneu YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/c/droneu Timestamps: [2:39] Today's question - Can I use LiDAR / RTK to an Inspire 2 [3:50] Does adding a unit add value to the Inspire 2? [5:21] LIDAR capabilities and can the Inspire 2 utilize one? What implications does adding units cause to the I2? [8:08] Adding GCPs and improving accuracy for a 3D model

Is it advisable to use LiDAR on an I2? What are the challenges and is it viable? In today's short episode we discuss if an LiDAR/RTK can be added on to an Inspire 2 and are there benefits to doing so? Today's episode is brought to you by Drone U courses. Over many years on developing comprehensive training content for developing skilled pilots, Drone U has developed over 40+ courses over diverse applications and domains. Access them all through single Drone U membership. Visit our Drone U course page for more details on available courses. Today's question is from Steve, who would like to know if it's feasible to add LiDAR to an I2 to generate mapping deliverables. Thanks for the question Steve. In this short episode we quickly answer the question if LiDAR / RTK can be added on to an I2 for generating Mapping deliverable and if it is a viable option for pilots. We address first, the potential value addition to the drone deliverable that a unit can add to the I2 and if such a value addition is truly required for mapping deliverable. We then discuss potential challenges that pilots can face by such an addition most notable the issue of additional weight on the drone and its implications. Alternatively, we discuss options for drone pilots to explore to ensure similar accuracy in deliverable but without compromising flight times. Tune in today to learn more about the viability of adding such a add-on to your I2 and understand the benefits and trade-offs involved. Get Your Biggest and Most Common Drone Certificate Questions Answered by Downloading this FREE Part 107 PDF Make sure to get yourself the all-new Drone U landing pad! Get your questions answered: https://thedroneu.com/. If you enjoy the show, the #1 thing you can do to help us out is to subscribe to it on iTunes. Can we ask you to do that for us real quick? While you're there, leave us a 5-star review, if you're inclined to do so. Thanks! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ask-drone-u/id967352832. Become a Drone U Member. Access to over 30 courses, great resources, and our incredible community. Follow Us Site – https://thedroneu.com/ Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/droneu Instagram – https://instagram.com/thedroneu/ Twitter – https://twitter.com/thedroneu YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/c/droneu Timestamps: [2:39] Today's question - Can I use LiDAR / RTK to an Inspire 2 [3:50] Does adding a unit add value to the Inspire 2? [5:21] LIDAR capabilities and can the Inspire 2 utilize one? What implications does adding units cause to the I2? [8:08] Adding GCPs and improving accuracy for a 3D model

A new research paper was published in Aging (listed as “Aging (Albany NY)” by MEDLINE/PubMed and “Aging-US” by Web of Science) Volume 14, Issue 17, entitled, “Probiotics treatment for Parkinson disease: a systematic review and meta-analysis of clinical trials.” People with Parkinson's disease (PwP) exhibit gut dysbiosis and considerable gastrointestinal (GI) symptoms. Probiotics, beneficial strains of microorganisms, and supplements optimize the intestinal environment and alleviate GI symptoms among elderly people. In a new study, researchers Chien-Tai Hong, Jia-Hung Chen and Tsai-Wei Huang from Taipei Medical University conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of clinical trials to investigate the effects of probiotics on people with Parkinson's disease. PubMed, Embase and Cochrane Library databases were used. Six randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and two open-label studies were included. Most of the probiotic regimens were based on Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium. Six studies investigated the benefit of probiotics for GI symptoms, especially for PwP with functional constipation, and two RCTs assessed probiotics' effect on systematic metabolism and inflammation. Major outcomes were the effects of probiotics on GI symptoms, including bowel movement and stool characteristics. “In the meta-analysis, probiotic treatment significantly increased the frequency of bowel movements among PwP (mean difference [MD]: 1.06 /week, 95% confidence interval [CI]: 0.61 to 1.51, p < 0.001, I2 = 40%). Additionally, probiotic treatment significantly normalized stool consistency (standard MD: 0.61, 95% CI = 0.31 to 0.91, p < 0.001, I2 = 0%).” Although the probiotic compositions varied, the researchers found that probiotic treatment significantly attenuated constipation for people with Parkinson's disease and exhibited possible systematic effects on inflammation and metabolism. Given the tolerability of probiotics, the present meta-analysis may provide more consolidated evidence of the benefit of probiotics on constipation in people with Parkinson's disease and a possible new therapeutic approach for disease modification. “This review and meta-analysis determined that probiotic treatments, mainly Lactobacilli and Bifidobacterium–based regimens, effectively alleviated constipation. Adverse effects are generally tolerable. However, considering the gut microbiota is highly associated with a person's environment and diet, studies from other continents are required to establish the benefit of probiotics on constipation. Moreover, probiotic treatment is likely to affect the systemic inflammation and metabolism of PwP, but further studies are warranted to investigate the possibility of the disease modification effect on PD.” DOI: https://doi.org/10.18632/aging.204266 Corresponding Author: Tsai-Wei Huang – Email: tsaiwei@tmu.edu.tw About Aging-US: Launched in 2009, Aging (Aging-US) publishes papers of general interest and biological significance in all fields of aging research and age-related diseases, including cancer—and now, with a special focus on COVID-19 vulnerability as an age-dependent syndrome. Topics in Aging go beyond traditional gerontology, including, but not limited to, cellular and molecular biology, human age-related diseases, pathology in model organisms, signal transduction pathways (e.g., p53, sirtuins, and PI-3K/AKT/mTOR, among others), and approaches to modulating these signaling pathways. Please visit our website at www.Aging-US.com​​ and connect with us: SoundCloud – https://soundcloud.com/Aging-Us Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/AgingUS/ Twitter – https://twitter.com/AgingJrnl Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/agingjrnl/ YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/agingus​ LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/aging/ Reddit – https://www.reddit.com/user/AgingUS Pinterest – https://www.pinterest.com/AgingUS/ For media inquiries, please contact media@impactjournals.com

We talk to Wicked's own Elphaba, Jackie Burns!FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):0 (2s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. How I've missed you. I've missed talking to you boss. And I took quite a number of weeks off. Well, I did. She, she actually continued to record for at least one week while I was gone. And she's got a great interview. We've got a great interview coming up. She talked to Jackie burns, little Jackie burns on Broadway, wicked playing Elphaba. No big deal. Actually. She has a big deal and she's great. And so were all of you. I am heartened because even though we've taken all this time off, we've continued to grow our listenership.0 (47s):So thank you to you for listening, for continuing to listen for being a first-time listener. If you are thank you for being here, it's a privilege actually, to be able to have a platform to speak one's mind is truly a privilege. And one, I hope we do right by. We're going to be right back into the swing of things with interviews, regular weekly interviews in the fall. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, please enjoy this interview with Jackie burns and I'm Gina Kalichi3 (1m 34s):To theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.0 (1m 38s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.3 (1m 43s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (1m 56s):Here's the thing. Jackie burns. Congratulations. You survived theater school and you also survived this hellish trying to get you on. So squad quest squad cast, which we usually use is totally wonky this morning. And I was like, no, I, because I'm obsessed with you because I'd been researching you. I'm not a musical theater person, but I am one of these musical theater lovers that has so much reverie. And I think it is a sacred thing to sing and I don't really do it. And so I'm obsessed and you and I have the same birthday, October 4, 10, 4, buddy, ten four. So You're a little younger than me, five years, but that's okay.2 (2m 41s):I'm still, I'm super obsessed. And I also like I, when I watch, so I'm known for like going to high schools and middle schools and watching musical theater of people I'd have no connection to in what I was at when I was in Chicago, because I adore the art form and I don't do it, but I'm obsessed. So anyway, start, start from the beginning. You grew up in Connecticut. How, and then obviously you're a Broadway star. Are you back working in on Broadway? What's happening with you right now?5 (3m 13s):Oh my God. What is happening?2 (3m 15s):Yeah. I looked at your, I looked at all your profiles, but I want to hear it from you. Where are you post sort of pandemic. What is happening with your career? Tell us,5 (3m 27s):Oh God. Well like every musical theater theater,2 (3m 31s):Just say star, just say star, you are a star. You're a musical theater star. Like I understand for someone like I write for TV and I act sometimes, but like I musical theater people when I see them on stage, I'm like, I, the, the, the amount of brilliance it takes and dedication to, I have trouble on set, just moving my body and say, and you sing and move and dance and all the things. Okay. Okay. So what's happening with your career?5 (4m 2s):Oh my God. Well, first of all, Jen, I'm obsessed with you because I wish the rest of the world felt the same way about musical theater people because all of I'm most TV and film people are like, oh, you're not a real actor because you,2 (4m 13s):No, I would love to cast, listen, listen, what I mean? I would love to catch you and all your cohort when I do, because here's the thing. The body spatial awareness of musical theater folks, to know where they are in space translates onto set. So everyone listening, the 10,000 people that have downloaded this podcast that will continue to hire musical theater folks on television and film because they know bodies and bodies. It's not just a head people. So anyway, okay, go ahead. Sorry. I keep interrupting. I'm just like,5 (4m 46s):Nope. I love you. You're like making me feel so good about myself. But as every theater person, all we want to do is get on TV and film.2 (4m 55s):Oh, right. It's that's holds true for musical theater folks too. I assume that's where the dough is. Is that5 (5m 1s):That's where that money is. Because if you think about it, like once the theater show closes, we don't get a back end of it. So like, that's it. Your paycheck's done.2 (5m 9s):There's no residuals.5 (5m 10s):There's no residual.2 (5m 12s):Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So tell me what is happening now? You said you got your insurance back, which is5 (5m 17s):Paula that's hope. It's always helpful. I just did a new musical called a walk on the moon. That was based off the movie. No,2 (5m 27s):No,5 (5m 29s):No. I'll walk in the cloud. Like very similar. No,2 (5m 33s):She's dope. I like to5 (5m 34s):Have her with like Viggo, Mortensen, Schreiber. And when it was like back in the day, it's a good movie. Tony, Tony Goldwyn, like directed it and stuff. And he actually came and saw the musical. Did2 (5m 47s):He give you a compliment?5 (5m 49s):Yes, he was very nice. It was also like super handsome. You're like, hi,2 (5m 52s):I have heard. Yes.5 (5m 54s):You're just like, hello? Oh, you're married Ella and there's no, no, no, no, no. And my boyfriend's gonna listen to be like,2 (6m 6s):No, no, no. That's okay. That's okay.5 (6m 8s):No, he knows. He knows that I'm just joking. I'm just stroking on there. No. And then Pam gray wrote it. Who wrote the, who wrote the script as well? Yeah. And it's really good. And we just closed and they're hoping to bring it to Broadway. So fingers crossed. But the problem is, is that Broadway because it was closed for two years. All these shows have been trying to get theater. So that were like low man on the total whole cause it's like two years worth of shows trying to get to Broadway.2 (6m 37s):Correct.5 (6m 37s):So it's, and we're just like a little show rather than like a big show, so2 (6m 43s):Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But still worked. You have worked post pandemic, which is a huge thing. Okay. So tell me, were you a kid? Who did you grow up? You grew up in Connecticut. I'm assuming, were you a kid? Like you were five and you were like, just ho like you knew you could sing or what, how did that go? How does that, how do you discover that you can freaking sing?5 (7m 6s):You're so cute. I'm going to like put your pocket. Your energy is like seven. I'm going to be a best friend now.2 (7m 13s):And we'll together. We'll try to, we'll try to have a television show. That's like, I know they did it kind of with glee, but like Glebe, like less sassy and more earnest.5 (7m 23s):Yes. I am interested Jen, get2 (7m 26s):And throwing some murders because I, I write a lot of murder. Yeah.5 (7m 29s):Oh, I love that. That's what2 (7m 31s):Musical murders. Great. Okay. So you, you were a kid and how did this happen? That you were like, dude, I can be on stage and sing.5 (7m 38s):I just like always was obsessed with it. Like, so I started dancing when I was three and then, but like I used to get on like the little like Hutch, you know, like the fireplace such as my stage and sing, sing to like Michael Jackson's thriller. And I just like, yeah. And I used to, when I used to go to dance, like as I got older, we drove like 45 minutes. My mom drove me very sweet to dance class. And I used to sing along with the radio and I was convinced that the DJ could hear me. And it was just like a matter of time before I got recording contract.2 (8m 9s):Listen, here's the thing about that is that yeah. Some people might think it's wacky, but what I think is that bill that shows that somewhere, you envisioned a world where people were listening to you and were going to pay you. And that it was going to be like, even though it was just a fantasy in a car, what it shows is that you had like a sort of an expansive mind as a kid, as a lot of, not every kid is doing, most kids are like, oh, I sound terrible. And I'm never going to make it out of this Podunk town. Like that's, that's where I was at. So you, you were you're on. Okay. And then, so the dancing and singing, and then what about the acting part? Like, cause you could have just been a singer and a dancer.5 (8m 47s):Totally. You know what this is going to be, I'm going to throw so much shade and2 (8m 52s):You5 (8m 52s):Can do it2 (8m 53s):Any way. You want shade, half shade, full shade, whatever you need.5 (8m 57s):I'm going to give full shade just because I think it's funny. But when I went to my dance school, brought us to New York the first time, even though I lived in Connecticut, which is super close to New York, like I live two hours from the city. We never went to the city. So I went to the city for my first time when I was like, I was 15 years old and we went and saw Greece with like Broadway. That was my first Broadway show that I ever saw. And it was with like, kind of was like Brooke shields, like Rosie O'Donnell like crazy. But I, I was kind of not impressed. I was like, wait, I could do this. Like I, you know, I coveted Broadway is like so big. So like that, that I, I realized I was like, everyone sounded really great and who was dancing really great.5 (9m 41s):But I was not impressed with the acting at that point. For some reason, I just kind of was like, oh, it felt very pantomimed me2 (9m 49s):Like presentational.5 (9m 50s):Yes. Yeah. Yes. Which sometimes it's like, and that's when I moved to LA, I lived in LA for like a hot second cause I did wicked in LA and then I met my managers at T grin, I think. Yes.2 (10m 2s):Yes. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Tikrit is amazing. Yes.5 (10m 5s):Yeah. He's amazing. And they were like, come move to LA and like, let's get you on TV and film. And then I moved there and then the pandemic happened and I was like, well2 (10m 12s):It was right then. Oh shit.5 (10m 14s):Yeah. I was there for like six months and it was great and it was fun. And like, but the thing that I realized is like, when I first got there and I started got into acting classes there, they were like, yo, you're a musical theater. So you only like color with like two of the crayons in your coloring box rather than all of them. Because you know, it's so far back. So you just have to like, you know, play to the back of the house and it's true. So many times you go see a show and it's like so broad and present presentation. It doesn't like bring, bring truthful. So that's2 (10m 43s):I think, no, I have to say it's like, I wish LA and I'm not, I I'm sure you went to amazing classes, but I wish so. I teach at the theater school at DePaul over zoom now that's where we went. Okay. So I teach there. And so the thing is, I wish we had a better language for saying that to people. So what, for me it is, is not, when I see musical theater actors on all it is, it's not so much for me that they have two colors. What it is is that they were exceptionally built for the, the thing they were doing. Right. And now they're doing something else. So you say like, okay, look, the dope thing about you is we know all that's in there.2 (11m 25s):It's just a matter of, of like super tweaking it and making it niche, niche nuanced. And it's a total teachable skill, which I'm sure they told you to like to oh yeah. Just is like, but the good news is I think I would, you know, I would more say you have all the colors, all the people that do musical theater have all the colors in there, or you wouldn't be able to go broad. And it's just a matter of pivoting to being a more like lasered focused situation. So anyway, all the musical theater people out there, I know we all have many all the colors, but it's true that there was also like in the arts and the late nineties where theater was Uber presentational, like, like, oh my gosh.2 (12m 8s):So you saw that and you were like, okay, I want to act, I could do this. And so then what did you do? Start taking classes or what happened as a kid?5 (12m 16s):So then that's, well, that's what I, I'm a year early from my grade. So I was going into college that next year. You know what I mean? So I just decided to just go to school for straight acting, just for acting rather than musical theater. Cause I felt like if you can sing, you can sing. Obviously you can always get better and stuff like that. But I was like, I really wanted to make sure that cause everything is from a storytelling place. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, so if, if you're a BA, if you know, so anyways, so that's why I went to2 (12m 41s):Wait a minute. So here's the thing about singing? Like, okay. So when you, how do you know like your small and you're doing like, you're standing on the hearth of your fireplace and doing your thing, but like how does one know like, oh shit, I can do this because here's my thing. Like I never tried because my sister was the singer in the family. So I just assumed that that was like, every family gets one and that was her thing later in life, look, I took classes and I'm, but I'm not like a, a hearth singer like yourself. Right. So, but how do you know, do people say to you I'm serious? Do people say to you, oh my gosh, Jackie, when you're young, do you remember people saying like, you can really fucking sing?2 (13m 24s):Not maybe not with the fucking, you know what I mean?5 (13m 26s):No, they said, yeah. They said, Jackie, you can fucking sing. And I was like six and I was like, oh my God, thank you so much. You know, what's so funny is that this now everyone's going to really know our age. When I was, when I was in elementary school, my mom made me do the, what is it called? The talent show. And I sang Peter pans. I won't grow up. She made me like various.2 (13m 56s):I love that. I'm glad she, but I also glad because that could lend itself to comedy. So that's good.5 (14m 2s):Oh. And she gave me all the like, like, like I won't grow up. I had, and she had like a thing like, oh, I don't want to wear a tie. Like she, like, all the parents made a big deal out of me and they wanted to throw a bake sale to send me to star search. It was hilarious. But then all the little girls that I was friends with all hated me after.2 (14m 23s):Well, see here's well, that5 (14m 25s):Was,2 (14m 25s):That happens. I'll I'll all the time, so. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did you go to star search first of all?5 (14m 32s):No. No. I was too busy, crying every day because I had no friends and wanting to like be homeschooled.2 (14m 37s):So yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I, I, here's the thing about that. It's like, I don't have kids and I'm never going to have kids that ship has sailed thankfully. And so I, it's interesting to think about kids and like, what is it? I wish what I wish. So what I wish never happens. And that's why I say, I wish, I wish that the kids had said, oh my gosh, Jackie, you can sing. Yes. You got attention. Teach us how to do it. Or maybe let's, let's collaborate together, but they're like six and nobody's going to fucking collaborate when they're six, maybe. But like, I wish it had been more collaborative because look, what if you had like put on a production together with the girls that, but instead they ostracize you a little bit.2 (15m 21s):So then did you keep your singing or were you like, fuck you, I'm going to sing anyway. How did that go?5 (15m 25s):Oh, and then, so then, so then I went to junior high and then I actually always said like that it was junior high and the chorus teacher made a big deal out of me. And I like won all these awards and like, got like, like whatever I got all these solos and stuff. And then the parents started complaining to the chorus teacher that why is this little girl getting all the solos and not our daughter's getting solos. So then,2 (15m 47s):Wow. So here's the thing like, look, look, look, I understand that we want things to be equal, but how about then, like if I ran in the world or even had a little part of it, this is what I would do, I would say all right. All right. All right. So Jackie can sing her ass off. She's amazing. But why don't we pivot and turn and also look at what makes little Emily and little Jane amazing. And, and, and, and bolster that instead of trying to damp in Jackie's flame, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So like, I have this new phrase in Hollywood and people probably hate me. And when I go to meetings, I'm like, look, we have to collaborate or die.2 (16m 27s):Like that's where we're at agree. Right? Like adapt and collaborate or get the fuck out of the way. And people are like, oh, this crazy bitch. But here's the thing. The collaboration is going to be the only thing that saves us on our planet and in many ways. So wouldn't, it have been great. If they had said I should have my own POS podcast, that's just called wouldn't it have been great because I, I, I feel like I say that so much to people like, wouldn't it have been great if they, the parents had said, oh my God, like, Jackie's dope. But if Jackie can do it, that maybe means like my Susie can tap, dance her ass off or make pottery like a motherfucker. So like, let's focus on those things rather than dampening Jackie's, you know, it's so it's so such, such terrible behavior, but okay.2 (17m 10s):So junior high also, did you, were you like, oh shit. I can sing. And I'm amazing, but these people hate my guts or how did it?5 (17m 17s):Yeah. Yes. And then the caveat is when I went to high school, the junior high teacher told the high school teacher that I was like very special. And like, they should, she should put me in like senior prior. And then that teacher hated me and told me I was flat and told me, I sucked every day to the point I stopped singing. I just,2 (17m 37s):You know what that reminds me of wait, was it, was it a lady teacher? Okay. It reminds me of glee when it's a Dina and, and what's her name and you know, the one people like to talk shit about, I don't know her. Leah, Leah, Leah.5 (17m 55s):Yeah.2 (17m 55s):So they, that exact thing happens. And it's just, it's just, and maybe that's what happened. Maybe it's jealousy. Maybe it's maybe it's like, how dare someone be special? I never got to do the thing or whatever it is. It's not your, you were a kid. It was not your PR, even in high school, your problem to figure that out. So you stopped singing what? That now there's the real travesty, right?5 (18m 16s):Yeah. So then I stopped singing in choir. I would just like lip sync and she would still be like, oh, I hear is Jackie all layers, Jackie sound. It was horrible. Miss Hilton. I'll tell you to say it anyway. She was horrible to me. And then for college, you had to write, she, you had to get a letter of recommendation. And she told me she had nothing nice to say about me and she wouldn't write it. So then the guidance counselor, I had to write it for me. It was so that I could audition for schools.2 (18m 43s):Okay. That lady, that lady is whore. That's a horrible thing.5 (18m 47s):Yeah. I know. And then my brother, this is so funny. My brother, Kevin, my brother is seven years younger than me. And so when he went to high school, he had her too. And the first day of school went through and was like, Joey burns any relationship to Jackie burns. And he was like, yeah, that's my sister. And he was, she was like, yeah, she's still trying to make it on Broadway. And he was like, oh yeah, she's on Broadway in hair actually. And it shut her right up. And then all of a sudden she was like, oh, I've always knew she was going to make it. I was like,2 (19m 16s):Okay, here's the thing like, that is a sad, sad, human being. Like, if you are a teacher of youngsters and you cannot foster them in any way, then, then you, that is not the right fit for you. My friends. And also I I'm, well, it's, it's no shocker. I was a former, I'm a former therapist for, for people when they got up, I got out of prison. So like, all my bent is like on a psychological lens, but like a trauma lens, usually with this stuff. But it's like lady, I understand Ms. Whatever. Hilman, what's her name?5 (19m 50s):Hilton2 (19m 50s):Hilton. Ms. Hilton Paris Hilton. I understand if it was somehow related, I understand that you've got trauma that you haven't worked on, whatever, but that is not the children, the high high-schoolers responsibility, my friend, that is your responsibility. Just like it's my responsibility. And Jackie's responsibility to work on the shit that happened to us. So anyway, oh my God. Well, thank gosh for guidance counselors. I would have been like the guidance counselor. I would have been like,5 (20m 16s):She was the best. Yeah.2 (20m 18s):Ms. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Ms. Fitzgerald. Okay. So then you go to connect. You went to school in Connecticut, right?5 (20m 23s):Yeah. So then my parents were like, and then I, so I graduated when I was 17, so I, and I, because we're October. Yeah. And so what was the youngest class to get our drivers?2 (20m 35s):Yes, but like the best in terms of like, I got to college, I was 17. I was like, Hey, I'm young. And I'm got,5 (20m 41s):Say that same, same, but my so, but I didn't want to go to college. I was like, I'm just gonna move to New York and be a star. And my parents were like, yeah, you're 17. So no, you're not. And I was like, oh, okay. So I didn't put a lot of effort into looking into school. So I only audition for three schools, NYU boss' conservatory and Yukon. My parents were like, you should audition for the state school. Just, you know, whatever. Yeah.2 (21m 2s):It's also cheapest, cheaper, much cheaper. Right.5 (21m 5s):So, yeah. That's what, and that's what my parents said. They were like, listen, you can graduate. They're like, this is how much money we can afford. The rest is going to be loans and on you. They're like, so you're not graduating. And being a doctor like in going into like maybe a work, maybe what we think you'll work. My parents were always very supportive of me.2 (21m 22s):That's awesome.5 (21m 23s):So great. Yeah. They were never, they were, they weren't like, you need a backup plan. They were like, yeah, we think you'll make it. But they were like, you don't go. Right. So like, you know, they're like, you can graduate with a shit ton of debt or you can graduate basically debt free. And I chose to go to school debt free. I was like2 (21m 41s):So smart because let me tell you something. When the sheriff comes to your house, because you don't pay off your grad school loans, Jen Bosworth, Ramirez over here and says, you took out a private loan for your grad school in counseling psych, and you never paid it back. And so now we're here to collect. Literally the sheriff came to my house. I thought to myself, this was a poor choice that I, I did not need to take out this loan that I apparently, I mean, look, fit shit, happens for a reason. But what I'm saying is when I hear these stories, that people that chose to be debt free instead of go to Juilliard and take out $7,700,000 in debt or whatever, or in loans, I'm like, yes, because especially in this career, even if you are brilliant, and even if you are magical and are a star, you it's still, the paycheck is the paycheck right.2 (22m 29s):On Broadway. So, so good for you. Okay. So you up, well, how was your college experience, Jackie? Like, how would you say that was5 (22m 36s):Again also hilarious and the fact that, because I sang and I went to school for just straight acting, they all made fun of me for like sitting. They were like, oh, you want to do musical? That's not real acting. And I always left with laugh and be like, I'm going to actually work. So, you know,2 (22m 53s):Oh, people or any. Okay. So when I was on crew, I was on crew at DePaul theater school and we would do one musical a year, which I was never casting, but5 (23m 4s):Same thing we did one musical a year,2 (23m 6s):I guess. Were you the, I hope you were the fucking star everyone.5 (23m 9s):No. Sometimes no, because the grad actors would be the stars.2 (23m 14s):Oh my God. I bet they're kicking themselves. But anyway, okay. So I was crew and I was on makeup and I think Gina was too. And anyway, w I was on crew and I would literally, and it was into the woods, which is my favorite. And I would sit on the edge of the stage and Rapunzel, this woman, Jen, who was a Rapunzel and reposal, I would watch. And I would be like, oh my gosh. And Brockie, I think it was Brockie who did last midnight. And I just was be like, this is magic. So anyway, okay. So that was like me. And I would like miss my, my job because I would be listening and watching these musical theater people, I just would love, they were, I was like in love.2 (23m 54s):So anyway. Okay. So when you, you wouldn't be the star at Yukon5 (23m 58s):Sometimes, sometimes that like you, like, yeah. Towards the end, I started getting some starring work roles, which was great.2 (24m 4s):What was your favorite role at Yukon?5 (24m 11s):You know what I think it's, I think it was my favorite role. Cause I would never get cast in the real world was Joanna and Sweeney. Todd, because putting me in a bland blonde wig is it's a very unfortunate level. Oh, it's not good.2 (24m 24s):Okay. Okay. So you, Joanna is sweet. Sweet has a rough one.5 (24m 28s):Yeah. And also we love murder, but so like I'm not your quintessential ingenue and you know what I mean? Like, I don't have an ingenue look, you know,2 (24m 38s):You have more of like a fierce, like a fierce, like a warrior villain look.5 (24m 42s):Yeah. I'm a, I'm a Maleficent. I'm not an Elsa. You know what I mean? Like that's2 (24m 48s):Is what it is. It is what it is. I5 (24m 50s):Love it. Yeah.2 (24m 51s):I'm the crazy neighbor. I'm the crazy lady. I love it. I'll take it.5 (24m 56s):Yeah. Save. So it's like, I would never play that in the real world. So I loved that because it was a chance for me. Cause I never get to the icing can sing soprano. Nobody knows that like really well, like I actually prefer seas, but I don't ever sing soprano because,2 (25m 10s):Oh, I didn't understand that. Of course like the way the, the, the, the, the part is written. Yeah. The ingenue is probably our Sopranos.5 (25m 20s):Yeah. This is their soprano. And they're like the little blonde next door.2 (25m 23s):And the earthier grounded tone is more of the villainous to, or like the serious business tone. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. So also sweetened, I didn't know when I saw it, when I was younger, that what it was about and I saw it and I was like, what the fuck is going out? These meat pies, this is cannibalism. And it was crazy. Yeah. I love it now. Cause I write about that stuff, but like, I was like, why is this, why are they, why is he's cutting his throat? What's happening here. So anyway, I thought it was going to be like wizard of Oz. No, no, like, yeah. I didn't know. So. Okay. So you graduate and then are you like, fuck it, I'm moving to New York right away. Like how did this go?5 (26m 2s):Yeah. And then I moved out into New York to New York, with my best friend from college. We got randomly put together. She was not an actor. I didn't really hang out with any of the acting people. I like hung out with all normal people.2 (26m 13s):That's much better choice.5 (26m 16s):Yeah. And so, and even though going to school for straight acting, I wasn't around music, musical theater, people are a different energy, especially, it's a lot of, you know,2 (26m 26s):And he, you know, it's a lot, but it's also, I got to say like, it's a lot. And as I get older, I really appreciate it more because it's a way of sort of owning your space. But like when you were in high school and college and you sit in a restaurant next to a table of musical theater people, you're like, oh God, may I may lose it. So, yeah. Okay. So you graduate and you and your roommate from Yukon move into Manhattan or what, where do you go to5 (26m 50s):Yeah, we move it. Yeah. We, we lived together for 11 years actually. Yeah. Like we were like common law until I moved in with my ex-husband at the time. Like yeah. Like,2 (26m 60s):Yeah. Okay. And so what happens? You get an agent. How does this work for you? Jacqueline?5 (27m 4s):Yeah. It's so funny. So, well, I, I have such a random way. So I moved and I went to one audition.2 (27m 11s):What was it? Four, four. I5 (27m 12s):Don't even remember. I just remember I was at Chelsea studio. I don't even think that they2 (27m 17s):Do physical theater.5 (27m 18s):It was musical theater. And that was another thing because they didn't go to musical theater school. I didn't have like a2 (27m 23s):Book,5 (27m 25s):Like, so like, you know, I went to this, it was like a cattle call audition with like, you know, as non-union 8 million girls in a room2 (27m 33s):Shit. And they all had books and shit. I don't, I didn't even know what a book was. Cause I, until like last year I was like, she's like, I gotta refresh my book. I was like, yeah, just get a book, any book? And she's like, no girl. No. So, okay. So you show up there and how does it go? Are you nervous? Are you like, no, I can fucking sing. Fuck you.5 (27m 50s):No, I, I, I was there and I was waiting and everybody was wearing like the same dresses. It was like straight up like Jason, Robert Brown, you know, from last five years. And everybody's like talking about what they've done and dah, dah, dah, and their book and what they're going to sing. And I just had a panic attack and I left. I was like, Nope, I'm going. And I didn't audition for like two years. I just like lived in the city and like waitressed and like hung out with my friends. You know what I mean? It just was like a ridiculous,2 (28m 15s):Yeah. Living your life, like living your life. Like, you know what? I, I respect that. Like I, I, okay. The one, oh my God. The one audition girl I had. Oh my gosh. So I had to go to the lyric opera of Chicago because they were, they were, they were supposedly hiring non singers for like, or like just singers, but non, non opera singers for this, this thing that this big New York person was coming in the Merry widow of, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Fine. So my agent's like, you got, I'm like, you know, I don't sing. They're like, no, no. They're just looking for people that can carry a tune or like, and I'm like, okay. But you know, and she's like, no, just go it's for this non more of an acting funny part.2 (28m 59s):And I'm like, okay, dude, like just learn 12 bars. So I, I learned the Cinderella stepsister song from Rogers and Hammerstein. Like why would a one out of eight? It's like a, it's like the ridiculous. Okay. So I go and I go into the bowels of the opera, the, the lyric opera where there's no cell reception. So I can't like text anyone and be like, I'm fucking in the wrong place. What the fuck? All the women come in, Jackie and they start and I hear them warming up and they're seeing opera opera. And I'm like, okay, okay. So I go to the bathroom, no reception. I'm trying to call my agent. Like I can't do this. And I go out and they're like, Jen, you're up? And I walk in.2 (29m 40s):Yeah, I'd walk in. And I hand my music to the piano player and he, and it's all these people. I never been to a musical theater audition, let alone an opera situation. And the guy on the panel just starts and I blacked out. I don't know what happened, Jackie. I didn't, I, I, I don't know what happened. It was awful. And I, I, like, I like left my body and they walk out and I'm like, and I walk out on the corner in Chicago downtown, and it just opens up. It starts pouring on me and I start crying on the corner and I call my agent. I'm like, I don't think it went so well. And then I tell them, anyway, I have no recollection of the, the, the audition.2 (30m 24s):Like I blacked out. So listen, I understand. And I couldn't sing and you could sing. And you were like, I'm out. So, so, okay. So you left and you for two years, you were a waitress and you were, you were kicking it with your friends. And then how did you work your way? Back in5 (30m 40s):My best friend came in with a backstage. She didn't even really know what it was. And she was like, you have to go to this audition today. Or you can't like hang out tonight. And I was like, she was like, come on, you didn't come. You didn't move here to be a waitress. And I was2 (30m 52s):Like, what was it for5 (30m 54s):Tokyo Disney in Japan?2 (30m 56s):Oh,5 (30m 57s):It was hilarious. And that, and I booked it. And that was my first job.2 (30m 60s):You went to Tokyo and you were worked at Disney.5 (31m 2s):Yeah. It was so fun. And they had this Broadway review. So I did this broad, they had this Broadway review show where I sang like mama rose and Avita. And like, it was hilarious. It was so fun. Yeah. It was so fun.2 (31m 15s):Did you do that Jackie?5 (31m 17s):Because nine months.2 (31m 19s):Oh my gosh.5 (31m 20s):So we2 (31m 21s):Did that. You make good money.5 (31m 23s):Yeah. It was great money. And then, and then I met this guy climbing, Mount Fuji, this Australian guy, and like fell in love. And so then I called my best friend, Rachel, who is just like the coolest person. And I was like, let's go to Australia. I also didn't like New York when I moved there, like, and she was like, okay. So like, we moved to Australia for like a year and like hung out there. And then I w we got kicked out cause our visa ran out, you know? And then, so then we came back to New York and I still hated New York. And I was like, Ugh,2 (31m 51s):What is your waving? And wait a minute. What you hate about it? Like, what did you not like about New York when you moved there?5 (31m 57s):Non-green you talk about Connecticut and the green light. And I live literally in2 (32m 1s):The middle of the middle of that,5 (32m 2s):On the shoreline, in the middle of nowhere, live in like a lake. It's all like, you know, it's like beautiful. And I'm a very outdoorsy girl. So it was just like, it was so ugly, concrete. It was so dirty. And I just was like, I missed the outdoors, you know what I mean? I miss like green. And so I just, I didn't, I just didn't like it, you know, now I love the city, but like, I just, I did not, it took me a while, but then I came back and I was like, that still don't want to be here. So I auditioned for a cruise ship and I got this. So then I went on a cruise ship and I was supposed to be there for nine months. And then four months into the cruise ship. I was like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I don't want to be like singing to old people, sleeping in the audience. Like, you know what I mean? So2 (32m 42s):Listen, it's old people. And then me, I go to those and I'm on the cruise. And I go to the musical reviews and I am like weeping in the audience and share5 (32m 53s): yeah.2 (32m 58s):Yeah. People sleeping. Yeah. No, I was like the one person and I know they were all asleep or like, or like snoring or like maybe a coma and like I, or like dead. And I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing. But I usually was alone in that. Okay. So you got off the cruise ship for months and you were like, Nope.5 (33m 15s):Yeah. And it was hilarious. Cause they, the lady, because with the way the cruise ship worked, like if you just leave, then you have to pay out your contract, which I did not want to do. Cause you, you know, so I was like, yeah, I'm having, I was like, I'm having, I said I was having episodes of like wanting to jump, you know what I mean? Cause like not seeing land for so long is like, and it was hilarious. Cause the lady totally knew the director knew I was lying. Her name's Natalie. And she was like, Jackie, she was like, if, if you say this, you'll never work on a cruise ship again, like you'll never get to come. And I was like, I'm okay with that.2 (33m 48s):So you got off.5 (33m 51s):So then I got off and2 (33m 53s):It's like a, it's like a psychological discharge kind of a5 (33m 55s):Situation. They don't want you to jump.2 (33m 58s):No, no, they don't want that.5 (33m 60s):No. And so then I'm moved back to the city and I was like, all right, I'm gonna audition. And, and so at that point I auditioned for this smokey Joe's yeah, yeah. I'd done like five smoking joints and this vector. Yeah. This, it was like one of my favorites. This cast director was like, Steven dandle is so nice. He was like, I want to help me call me the, after my audition. He was like, I think you're super talented. I want to help you. I want to help you get an agent. And I was like, okay. I was just very lucky. And so that's how I got my first agent. And then I had an audition for hair in the park, in Shakespeare, in the park and books that, so that, and I remember calling my parents when I got that. And I was like, this is, this is like the chicken before the egg type of thing, you know?5 (34m 41s):It's like, it's like, we love you, but you've never done probably before. So we can't give you a better show. And you're like, but how do I get a Broadway show? Unless you give me a Broadway show, you know what I mean? I was like, this is a game changer. And I knew, and it was great. And that's like kind of then from there on like2 (34m 56s):Here, was that, what year was that? The hair in the park here in the park.5 (35m 1s):I want to say it was it 2007.2 (35m 4s):Okay. Okay. Amazing.5 (35m 8s):Yeah. And it was great. And then while I was doing that in the park, all the girls in my dressing room were going in for this new show called rock of ages and, and, and my agents were small at the time, so they couldn't get me. I couldn't get in. And I was like, what the F I'm so right for this show. And then finally at the end I got an audition and there was one roll left the stage swing for like the dancer tracks. And I, at that point hadn't danced since I was 17, had been like, you know, almost 10 years. And I can tell you, I blew that, see dance so bad. Like everyone was going that one way. And I was one of those where it's like, there's no way I'm getting this, but I booked it because the music director fought for me and was like, no, I really want her voice.5 (35m 50s):Like I really want her. And so thankfully2 (35m 53s):We talk a lot about on this podcast and I just talk a lot about it in my consulting and stuff with my clients. It's like, here's the thing. Like, and, and, and tell me your thoughts on this. Like my, my, you know, my new sort of vision for things is look, and the people have told me this and I never listened because I was a fucking idiot. But like, like we're booking the room, we're not booking the job. Right. We're booking the people like that. We're booking our champions. We're making fans of our work everywhere we go. And we just don't know who our champions are going to be. So you might as well, like, just really try to, what is it like you're booking the room, right?2 (36m 35s):Like we're. Yeah. So, so you had these champions early on, not that you didn't have the talent and the fucking work ethic too, but you had champions like the guy who called the casting man who called you and told you, I want to help you. And like, and, and, and then the, the musical director on rock of ages, that's amazing. And I think, and I'm trying to sort of figure out like, and what are your thoughts on Why people want to champion certain people? Is it because that, I guess it's a leading question. What I think is that people are decent humans and they want to champion other decent humans, not just the talented voice or the stunning person, but like the decency inside the human something comes through.2 (37m 23s):Do you think that's, that has any validity to it or am I crazy?5 (37m 27s):No, I do think like you onset or in a, in a, in rehearsal, you're with these people for so many hours, if the person is talented, but they suck as a human, like who wants to be suck on sets with 16 hours or in a rehearsal room for eight hours? You know what I mean? Like,2 (37m 44s):I feel like you are one of those. And I would say yes, because I'm talking to you and I'm good with, I know people, but like what, what do you think it is about you? Like, I'm always talking about this to famous people and to stars and to like, what do you think it is about you that people want to work with?5 (38m 4s):I'm very I'm game to do anything. Like I I've no ego.2 (38m 9s):You're curious. You're humble. You have fond. It sounds like you have fun. You like that?5 (38m 15s):Yes. I think my biggest fault, like is that I am humble to a fault. So therefore I think we tell people how to treat us. So sometimes my humility will come across as a lack of confidence. And that's the problem. Cause you know, it's like, it's a lot of money there. Producers are putting on your shoulders and the person that comes in with the confidence that like, Hey, I'm amazing.2 (38m 39s):Let me tell you something. I'm five years older than you. And I'm just getting it. So I now can walk into a room and first excuse my language, but now I can walk into a room and I can swing my Dick. Yeah. I know I have done the work. I have seen what's out there and I know what I have to contribute and I'm also not. But I spent, and if you listen to it all in the podcast, you know, both Gina and I, we spent our twenties and even my thirties going pick me, choose me, love me on some level. Even if I wasn't saying that it was coming out somehow in rooms. Right. So nobody wants that.2 (39m 20s):Right? Like nobody, that's not, it's not even something it's not even about attractiveness. It's like not even attractive in like a human way. Right? Like in a working relationship kind of way. So now I walk in and I'm like, it's not that. And I think also like, and people say this all the time, like people mistake, humbleness for weakness all the time, but there's also something in us that's projecting this sort of smallness. Even if we're not saying it until now, like it took me until 40, like whatever to say, oh fuck, no, I've seen what's out there. And I know I belong and it's not constant. So do you feel like you're coming into that?5 (40m 1s):Yeah. I think that, I feel like I had figured it out like two years before the pandemic. I really kind of, you know what it was for me. I stood by for Idina Menzel and this show called if then on Broadway. And it was the height of her career. It was when frozen came out and she was on the Oscars. And like everybody she's like, you know, everyone was obsessed with her. They were coming to see her specifically in the show. They weren't coming to see the show. They were coming to see her standing by for her people were viscerally angry when I was on, you know what I mean? Because you know, they came to see like, people have flown in from me. I had this British woman yell at me because like she had flown in from England and to see a Dina and I was on and I was like, I'm sorry, like it's not my fault.5 (40m 45s):You know what I mean? Like, you know, so, but that gave me the comp and I had to like win the audience over, like, you know what I mean?2 (40m 54s):So they don't throw things at you, right?5 (40m 56s):Yeah. Like you could feel the shift. There was a song called what the fuck? And like, I always knew. I'd like, that's like, when I would get the audience, that's your2 (41m 3s):Side5 (41m 3s):Where they'd be like, okay, like it's not a Deena. Like, she's2 (41m 6s):Awesome.5 (41m 7s):But this girl, like, it's not like a terrible name. Right. You know what I mean? Like,2 (41m 12s):But that help, we can't help. But like this lady.5 (41m 14s):Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like she's at least like, not bad. So that gave me the confidence. Like I had gotten to the place where I was like, ma I believed in myself because it had to, because nobody else did. Right. So I had to like, be like, okay. And that's, I was in a really good place. And the same thing, like when I moved to LA, like I was doing really well, like getting into like producer session callbacks for like service. Like you don't get like, great. And then the pandemic happened and I'm slowly getting my mojo back. Because like, after having that two years, almost three years of like living in this void, this vacuum of self-tapes where you don't know what's going on, you know, like there's no creativity.2 (41m 51s):Yes.5 (41m 52s):That I'm slowly being like, okay, I do know what I'm doing.2 (41m 57s):Can you tell Tega right. Yes. I see you. And maybe I'll listen to this, send it to them. I feel like if I were an Tikosyn, you'd be like, okay, crazy bitch. You don't know what you're doing, but listen, if I were marketing, you I'd be like, she is the next Rene Russo meets. And I haven't figured out the meats part, but Like, I always have a meats, you know? And it's going to be someone, a little weirder. You know what I mean? Like my cause I always skew weird. So when I, so like, you are like, I can see it, but oh, you're the next Rene Russo. But with a fucking voice, how about that? That's how I would pitch you pitch you with a fucking voice to make the gods weep.2 (42m 38s):That's how I would pitch not a manager, but you know, and I haven't actually heard you sing, although you sang a little bit in, I write in this tape, I can tell, you can tell like musical theater and like people could really sing, even when they're like joking around. It's like, wow, the rest of us are like, what the fuck was that? When I mess around, I'm like, man, you're like, oh, it was just like a little bit like, whoa, what the fuck? So anyway, the point is, you're brilliant. And I could totally, I could see you being like the next bad-ass Rene Russo type. Who's like, you know, in the Thomas crown affair, like that kind of thing. That's how I would T grim5 (43m 14s):T grin. Listen, I tell him, tell him,2 (43m 16s):Tell him. And he's gonna be like, oh, that crazy bitch. So, okay. The thing is now. So we have about 10 minutes left and I want to focus on like, what are your dreams? Like, where do you want to be? What do you want to do? Where do you want to go?5 (43m 31s):So many good questions. I mean, I want to originate. I really just want to be originating roles. Okay.2 (43m 37s):Okay. Tell me more about what that means. Like, I don't even, we don't talk like that in Hollywood. So what does that mean?5 (43m 42s):Well, like, cause you know, Broadway shows, there's like a lot of long running shows, but like originated wicked. So they wrote the show for her. You know what I mean?2 (43m 52s):Okay. So this is great to know because a lot of us don't know this. Okay. So they write for the people. She did not audition for that or she did5 (44m 2s):No, she, no, she auditioned, but then once she got it. Yeah. So it's like all of a sudden if like, oh, you know, like,2 (44m 10s):Okay, I am that's okay. I have a dog I'm at my office, but I have a crazy dog named Doris. Who's insane. So don't worry.5 (44m 18s):I have a puppy. And she's like, she's hit her like, oh yeah. I've been2 (44m 22s):Grab her.5 (44m 24s):Can you come over here please? No. Okay. So yeah like, like with, if then they like, you know, like they changed so many keys for her to like find what is good for her, you know what I know? So that way this is done, but so, you know, I want to originate. I want to be at a place where I'm not replacing, you know, I want to be originating. So that way2 (44m 51s):Originating roles on Broadway.5 (44m 54s):Yes. And I really want to get into TV and film. I like want to be doing2 (44m 57s):So. So yeah. And I don't think there's any reason why not. And it's starting to pick up again. So like I would just put it out there that I, if I were you, I would give I'm giving you totally unsolicited advice To LA for another try another six months out here. And I feel like it's different. What I feel in LA right now. And it's why I moved from Chicago is that there is an expansiveness in Los Angeles that look, it can be full of garbage, of course. But there is an expansiveness and the people I'm meeting are like, especially the younger folks are like creating massive amounts of art and content.2 (45m 40s):And even I'm seeing theater out here and it's amazing. And also film and TV. So all I would say is, I think we're in an age where I, it does feel like in LA a lot of things and people listening like old, old timers listening are probably like, oh, shut up. But like, I do feel like we are coming to the end of where it's oversaturated with content from streamers and people are like, no, no, no, we don't need more. What we need is like very specific shows and movies that are, I think we're good. We're contracting a little bit, which is not bad. So it's going to be more for me anyway, like gritty, heartfelt, smaller stories, which I fucking adore.2 (46m 23s):So all I'm saying is come to LA and we'll be friends. That's what I'm saying, Come to my office and we can hang out and do all the things. But anyway, okay. So you want to do film and TV? Like what kind of roles? Like if I said to you, okay, magic wand. Here you go. Jackie, what kind of roles are you? I know you're like, so game to play anything, but like where do you think you'd really shine in television and film?5 (46m 48s):I think I'd really, that's a good, such a good, really good question. I think I am more of a, like of a quirkier than most people think I am. Do you know what I mean? Like a lot of people, especially like when I straightened my hair and like, they're like, oh, you're like a sexy, like, you know, and I'm like, I'm really kind of goofy and quirky.2 (47m 9s):Yeah. You're like more of an ally McBeal than a like Gina Gershon. Bad-ass like that you have a more quirky quirkiness to it.5 (47m 18s):Yes. And because I looked the way I looked people, I was just thinking about baddest, but I have a softness about me that I can't get rid of. Like I did just, there just is I, and so I am like the funny, but like also I'm going to tell you the truth. Cause I do have like, but in a, not in a, like, I'm going to cut your throat kind of way.2 (47m 38s):It's not aggressive. It's yeah. It's more like Ernest than that. There is an earnest quality.5 (47m 45s):Yeah. So I'm that? I just think like, you know, the best friend that's going to keep it real, but also as kind of a shit show and like, yeah,2 (47m 51s):Yeah, yeah. It's reminds me of like, you could, you could play a lot of things, but like you could play the partner of someone on television who like, who like keeps their partner in line, but it's also funny and sassy, but like is the, is the true north to somebody right. And earnest true north that's totally.5 (48m 15s):Yeah. Yes.2 (48m 17s):I feel like I should have a podcast where people come on and I like help market them.5 (48m 21s):I would, yes. I think that people wouldn't2 (48m 24s):Malarious, I'd be like, you're a real kind of Mike Shannon meats, you know, I don't know, John C. Riley type with a side of Ben Affleck or something like that. But anyway. Yeah. So, okay. So you want to do that and then are you auditioning right now for, is there what's happening on Broadway? What's happening off Broadway that you, that are you excited about? Anything what's happening? That you're excited about? Nothing. Okay, great.5 (48m 50s):I sadly to say it's kind of been really dry. Like I haven't had much additions and it's been a little like brutal.2 (49m 0s):Okay. Good to know. I mean, I look, look, it's better to be honest because here's the thing, like if we, and it also comes across, you know, that like if people come on this podcast or like, I'm talking to someone even in a party and they're like, it's fabulous. I mean, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, I don't buy this because I just don't buy it. My bullshit meter goes off. So it's been brutal. And I have to say like, it's been a really brutal for me too, but like in a, in a, in a, across the board. And I think this is a time. I mean, we're, I'm, I'm a triple Libra. So I have sun moon rising, all Libra, which means that I'm just a bonkers, but it also means I, we, I feel that we are in a huge transition time and as systems, whether that's Broadway, Hollywood, the government, whatever you believe, whatever systems as they sort of start to falter and fall in some ways, which is scary.2 (49m 55s):Cause it's, you know, I don't know. I have my thoughts about capitalism, but like systems are failing a little bit just because of the pandemic because of life, the climate, all this stuff, those of us in positions too are called to really come stand up and say, what do I want? How can I help? How can I be of service? And what do I really want to create? So it's like a beautiful time for artists to say, look, it's brutal too, but like there's opportunity in the brutality of like, wait a minute, who do I want to collaborate with? How do I want to collaborate? What kind of art do I want to make?2 (50m 35s):And what am I willing to do to make a living? And what am I not? And mostly for me, it's been about like, who do I want to align with? Who do I want to make, have partnerships with? And that to me is more important actually than the tasks I'm doing. It's like if I go into a writer's room and the, and the showrunners are fantastic and the writers are like we're crew and a team it's like, that would be I, and I'm all, I'm like totally putting this out into the universe. So I haven't been there yet. So like, I'm pre, but like, I can imagine that that is like more important to me than the actual dialogue or writing. Do you know what I mean?5 (51m 15s):Yes. I2 (51m 16s):Will work on whatever show, if the people in charge and the team are dope as hell, it's sort of not as important, what the it's still important, but it's not like it's more for me anyway. It's more the team, right? It's the team and who gets me and who I get. And at the end of the day, am I willing to go to bat for these people? And are they willing to go to bat for me versus it's like, again, it goes back to like collaboration versus, you know, like pick me, choose me, love me. And so that's what I wish for you is like, is like you find your next team of people that are like your champions that you can champion.2 (51m 57s):And then I think the project will sort of work itself out. Do you know what I mean?5 (52m 1s):Yeah, totally.2 (52m 2s):So listen, casting, listen, listen, people, Jackie burns. Bad-ass not just musical theater star, but musical theater star. And yeah. So what else is happening? Anything else you need to say, like to your, to people listening that they must to know about you or where you are in your life in the world? Because this is like, we talk a lot about in this podcast about legacy. Like I don't have kids, so I don't know. So a lot of people can have their legacy through their children and I don't have that. And I have an asshole dog that doesn't give a shit about legacy and she's not gonna do anything for legacy. So I, my legacy is like this part of it is this podcast, which is going to be around forever until the aliens, you know, whatever.2 (52m 46s):And so, or whoever's taking over, what do you want, what do you have anything to say for posterity? That's like going to be immortalized forever on in the cloud?5 (52m 59s):I think for me, I am, it's all about like work ethic. I am such a, I never take for, I never take for granted. Like a lot of people will talk about, and it's not to say that I don't get tired and I don't get like, there aren't times where I'm like, oh God, this is brutal. But there, it never leaves me in the fact that like, anytime I get to do a show and I get stressed out about, I am definitely, I deal with my own issues with perfection. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like where, but it never leaves me that like, I am so lucky to get to do this. And I am so grateful for the audience. Like, it makes me want to cry. Like I like when people are like, oh, sometimes I go on autopilot where it's like, oh, it's the seventh show of the week. And it's like, but those people in that seven show or eights or a weekend spent so much money to come and see this show that I can't help, but give 180% every time I get out the gate because I am so appreciate.5 (53m 50s):Cause I know if they didn't come, we wouldn't have a job. And also there's like 8 million people that were up for this one role. And somehow I got it. And I'm not saying I wasn't talented enough for it because you know, we all are.2 (54m 4s):Yeah. But you got it. And it's your re there's like a responsibility and a stewardship of the, and a seriousness of the profession and the role and the, and the it's like sacred in a way. Like, it's a thing. I, I totally, I hear that. Okay.5 (54m 20s):I think it's so important. And I think it's so important to give, like, this is like, it's hilarious. Like I don't, unless I can do a certain note, like, unless if I can, if I can't take up a note consistently eight times a week, I won't do it because I don't think it's fair that like, oh, well I can do it like three times a week. So those special three peep, three shows, they get it. And then the other ones get my, like, you know, less than show, like regular show because like they all paid a crap ton of money. So like, for me, I don't know, it's a cuckoo thing. Like I'm not somebody who's like giving you a different vocal show every day, depending on how I feel. I am going to give you the, like, I want2 (54m 60s):You give your best all the time. If you're when possible. And when, and if, and you don't mess around with that, you like, don't try to manipulate what people are going to get. And I, you know, I did a solo show, which was the word, like I loved my solo show in New York, but I did a solo show about cancer. And I worked for Nick cage for years. So that's in my solo show. I have like this crazy life. I was a therapist, all the things. So yeah, I've had a crazy life, but the point is I did this solo show and one night there was one ticket sold, okay. One ticket. And I went to my friend and I was like mother fucker. And I said, I don't do I do this show for one person. And she said, listen to me, who are you not to do the show for one person?2 (55m 40s):What if that one person needs to hear what you have to say? Who are you not to do the show? And I did it. And I, I did the show and I hope they got something out of it. And I, but, but she just said like, that person needs to hear what you have to say. They, they, they need to, and who are you not to give it to them? If that's your gift to offer, you've got to give it. And I was like, oh, and it changed my sort of my idea of like what it means to be in collaboration with the audience and like it, I was like, oh right. One person matters. That matters, right? Like that matters the one person, even if it's one person that got a discount ticket in Idaho that flew it, they matter to see you in wicked or whatever.0 (56m 39s):If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

Neurodevelopmental Therapy for Cerebral Palsy: A Meta-analysisAnna Te Velde, Catherine Morgan, Megan Finch-Edmondson, Lynda McNamara, Maria McNamara, Madison Claire Badawy Paton, Emma Stanton, Annabel Webb, Nadia Badawi, Iona NovakAbstractBackground and objective: Bobath therapy, or neurodevelopmental therapy (NDT) is widely practiced despite evidence other interventions are more effective in cerebral palsy (CP). The objective is to determine the efficacy of NDT in children and infants with CP or high risk of CP.Methods: Cumulative Index to Nursing and Allied Health Literature, Cochrane Library, Embase, and Medline were searched through March 2021. Randomized controlled trials comparing NDT with any or no intervention were included. Meta-analysis was conducted with standardized mean differences calculated. Quality was assessed by using Cochrane Risk of Bias tool-2 and certainty by using Grading of Recommendations Assessment, Development, and Evaluation.Results: Of 667 records screened, 34 studies (in 35 publications, 1332 participants) met inclusion. Four meta-analyses were conducted assessing motor function. We found no effect between NDT and control (pooled effect size 0.13 [-0.20 to 0.46]), a moderate effect favoring activity-based approaches (0.76 [0.12 to 1.40]) and body function and structures (0.77 [0.19 to 1.35]) over NDT and no effect between higher- and lower-dose NDT (0.32 [-0.11 to 0.75]). A strong recommendation against the use of NDT at any dose was made. Studies were not all Consolidated Standards of Reporting Trials-compliant. NDT versus activity-based comparator had considerable heterogeneity (I2 = 80%) reflecting varied measures.Conclusions: We found that activity-based and body structure and function interventions are more effective than NDT for improving motor function, NDT is no more effective than control, and higher-dose NDT is not more effective than lower-dose. Deimplementation of NDT in CP is required.

John Ussher1. Stewart Allen - You & I2. Cantoma - to the sea (Dj Pippi & Willie Graff)3. Husa & Zeyada - On my own4. Panoram - Wandering Frames (Luca Lozano remix)5. Cosmonection ft. Ddave - Let me tell you 6. D'arcangelo - Diagram VII (80's mix)7. Cosmonection - Clouds8. Crackazat - Everybody talks about it9. Space Ghost - Inner Focus10. Stavroz - In Mindibu 11. Nutty Nys - The Promise12. Crackazat - I'm easy13. Gorje Hewek - See you14. Nutty Nys - Sent15. Idan Hana - Far from the Sun16. Leroy Hanghofer - Pin (Jacques Lu Cont & Sloop John Barillo remix)17. Groove Armada - My Friend (Logic 1000 remix)18. JKriv & Peter Matson - New Friend (Felipe Gordon Deep Remix)19. Idan Hana - Moon Desert20. Peggy Gou - I Go (Soulwax remix)21. Dusky - Static (Cinthie remix)

Intro: Final Draft is conspiring against us, Beastie Boys' Adam Horowitz, Doris the dog loves the vet, Jim Croce, The Cure. Let Me Run This By You: storytelling, Risk Podcast, The MothInterview: We talk to the creator and producer of You're Being Ridiculous, Jeremy Owens, about offending people, porn, Samantha Irby, Roosevelt University, University of Arkansas, The URTAs, King Lear, Greg Vinkler, Barbara Gaines, Plautus' The Rope, P.F. Changs, Kyogen, Threepenny Opera, Steppenwolf, Brene Brown, Marianne Williamson.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.3 (15s):At 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):Yeah.1 (35s):It was one of these things where it's like, final draft will not let you restart your computer. I'm like, fuck you. Final draft. What did you ever do for me? Final draft writer, duet. They're all, they're all plotting against me,2 (47s):But what is, what is, what does final draft have to do with your camera working on this?1 (53s):So in order to, to be okay, the bottom line is I need a new computer. Okay. Let's start there second. Okay. That's the first level of problems. It's like the deepest level. And then we, if we go up a little bit into the level of problems, it is that final draft that I might camera in order to use my camera. Sometimes I have to restart my computer because it's so old. Right. So I need to restart,2 (1m 19s):You know, I want to do any one thing in the morning I got, are really rev my engine.1 (1m 26s):So like, I'm like, okay, well, in order to restart the computer, it's like not letting me restart it because final draft is this because probably final draft is so advanced and my computer is so Jack.2 (1m 39s):Totally. And that's how they get you mad. I feel like they all conspired to be like, okay, well let's make it. So this will work on this version. So then,1 (1m 49s):So anyway, I see you, you look great. I look like shit. So it's probably better my camera's up.2 (1m 57s):So a couple of things I keep forgetting to ask you on here, about how, how did it come to be that you were chatting in the parking lot with Adam Horowitz about your dogs, Volvo.1 (2m 12s):We never talked about that.2 (2m 14s):We did not.1 (2m 15s):Okay. So I rule up, so my dog, Doris, who everyone knows that listens to the podcast and by everyone, I mean, whoever listens to the podcast, you know what I mean? So hopefully it's growing and growing, listen and rate the podcast. Anyway, the point is I roll up to the vet, which I do oh about every other week, because my dog is a very high maintenance. And so she's just so she of course had an ear infection. Cause she has these huge ears that collect all this bacteria. So I roll up and there's an eye and because it's COVID and everything, you have to park outside and wait, but because it's LA all the windows are down and everyone's car and there's this dude sitting in his Kia has electric Kia.1 (2m 59s):Well,2 (2m 59s):My key.1 (3m 0s):Yeah, I know. I know. I did not recognize this human being. He looked like my husband, like fifties gray, maybe had glasses on.2 (3m 13s):Why would you like all our knowledge of them is when they were so, so young. Right,1 (3m 18s):Right. So young. And I like didn't, you know, keep up with the beast. So it was like, I had other things to do, you know? So I was doing other things. So I'm, I'm like trying to corral Doris out of the car. She's crazy. She's trying to get out. She loves the vet. The backdrop is my dog2 (3m 35s):Loves the,1 (3m 36s):Oh my God. She races towards the vet with a fury that is unmatched, loves it. I2 (3m 43s):Never once heard of this in my entire life. So1 (3m 45s):She's really, really excited about the bet. So she's an extra crazy. And I get her out of the carrier to let her sniff around in the parking lot. And I see this gentleman who is the interesting thing about him is that his leg is out the window. Like he's like resting his leg. And I'm like, well, that's kind of weird for like an older dude, but whatever, it's, it's LA like, you know2 (4m 8s):That sound's going to say, I imagine that kind of thing happens in LA.1 (4m 11s):Yeah. And plus he's probably weighed been waiting and waiting for his dog forever. And so, cause you, you have to wait out there, like they don't want you to leave in case they need you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, fine. So I, and I say, and he says, oh, a cute dog. And I'm like, oh, she's a pain in the ass. And then he's like, what's her name? And I'm like, oh, her name is Doris. And he's like, oh, that was my mom's name. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then we talked about the origin of Doris, cause it's from a Jim Croce song. And Jim Croce is someone, my husband adores the singer. The folks there yeah. Died when he was 29. Looked like he was about 60. When he died.2 (4m 47s):He was 29.1 (4m 49s):Yes. You know, he looks like David Abbott, Holly, if you ever look at me2 (4m 56s):Like a hole, I see it.1 (4m 59s):But just bringing it back to the old theater school. So, so yeah. And so he's like, we talked about Jim Croce and he's like, Jim Croce is the first person I remember dying. I had that album. And I said, yeah. And he said, that's in a Jim Croce song. And I said, yes, Leroy brown, Friday about a week ago, Leroy shooting dice. And at the end of the bar sat a girl named Doris and who that girl looked nice. And that's why we named Doris Doris. He was like, I don't remember Doris being in that song. So we get into that. Right. Okay. And then he's like, I'm like, oh, is your dog okay? And he's like, well, she, she, she got a cut on her neck and I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, is that2 (5m 38s):A knife fight in a bar?1 (5m 39s):I was like, how did that happen? And he goes, I don't know. But like, you know, since I'm not a doctor, I figured I'd take, bring her to the vet. I'm like good plan, my friend, good plan. So he's like, I'm waiting for him and waiting for her. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he said, what's wrong with your dog? And I said, oh my God, what? Isn't wrong with my dog? And I said, my dog has a dermatitis of the vulva and an ear infection. And he's like, wait, what? And I'm like, yes, she just she's out. She's got a lot of allergies because she's a friend. She and I did this to myself by getting a friendship. But like, yeah, she's got, and he said that his dog was really licking her butthole and he had dermatitis of the bottle. And I was like, it's the same I heard of my friend, Morgan has a Frenchie who has dermatitis of the butthole because all Frenchie owners talk about these things.1 (6m 26s):And he's like, oh, well, my dog has dermatitis of the bottle. I'm like, well, mine's got dermatitis of the Volvo. They both have, they both have like private parts itching. Right. And so then we started talking and we talked about a lot of things. Cause you have to wait forever. And then right. And so we talk and talk and talk and no clue who this person is. And he's like,2 (6m 47s):Did you say cut? There's something about that voice?1 (6m 52s):No.2 (6m 52s):No. Okay.1 (6m 54s):'cause he was kinda mumbly and also just looked so natural.2 (6m 60s):Aiming, sabotage.1 (7m 1s):No, not screaming and also not jumping around with his other two cohort. And then I just, I felt like, anyway, it just didn't cross my mind. And his shoelaces were untied. I don't know. It was like a real casual situation.2 (7m 15s):Yeah. Honestly, I would never assume somebody in a key is famous. That's my snobbery, but I wouldn't.1 (7m 21s):Yeah. I mean, I, it was a very, very, very nice camp, but it still, it was a key I said to you like, oh, that was her talking about cars. I mean, we talked about kids, cars, Manhattan. Then he said, I'm from it. I said, oh, I'm from Chicago. And he said, I'm from Manhattan. And I said, oh, I said, oh my God. I launched into this thing about how I could never live in New York because I was like to own like the most unhip like fat and ugly human and like, not in a bad way, but just like, kind of like I'm. So I just feel like, I didn't know what the fuck was going on ever in New York. Like, I didn't know which way to go, who to talk to, where to turn I was lost. And he's like, yeah. Do you know what I like about LA is like, nothing ever happens here.1 (8m 2s):That's not2 (8m 2s):True.1 (8m 3s):No. But I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I need to just like New York, like you have like a million things are always happening at any given time. Right?2 (8m 11s):Sure. It's a lot too. Like you have to do a lot of processing living in New York, you're taking your, you know, you're just taking in so much information1 (8m 19s):And that does not happen in LA and LA you're like sometimes starved for like,2 (8m 25s):Right.1 (8m 26s):But we talked about that. And then, and then by like end of conversation almost. I was like, oh, I'm Jen. I'm so sorry. And he was like, oh, I'm Adam. And I was like, okay, still, no, I had no2 (8m 40s):Adam common name,1 (8m 41s):Common name, whatever. And mom named Doris, whatever. Like, okay. And then we started talking, he said, his wife, what did he say? Oh, he bought a house in south custody. Anyway, all this stuff. He has a kid. And at the end I say, he was talking about what we, what we do. And I'm like, oh, I'm a, I'm a writer. And I'm like trying to write TV, but I also consult, I just started this business, but I wasn't, you know, I was a therapist and for felons and like, and then he got really into that. And then I said, oh, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I was, I think he said I was in the I'm in the music business. I said, oh, that's cool. I thought he was like a producer, like maybe a classical composer or something. I don't know. That's where my mind went. And I'm like, oh, like, what do you do?1 (9m 22s):And then he said, I was in and I said, oh, what kind of music? He's like, I was in a rap trio. And I was like, wait a minute, a rap tree endorsed by this. By this time it was like, biting me. You know, it's like a whole, I'm like, oh, a rap trio. And I couldn't the only rap trio I could think of was run DMC. And I'm like, oh, he's not in that. You know, he's a white dude. There's no way. And I'm like, oh crap trio. And I was like, house of pain, Cypress hill. Like I couldn't get it together. And then I was like, and then it dawned on me. And I said, oh, and he said something, like I said, I don't remember how it came up. And he's like, oh, I'm Adam Horwitz. And I was like, oh, I was like, of course.1 (10m 2s):I said, oh my God. And then I didn't know what to say. So I just said, cause he just moved. He actually, he moved to south Pasadena, wait before I moved to Pasadena. But I said welcome to Pasadena.2 (10m 16s):Right. Because the minute, you know, it's a celebrity. It's like, it changes the ions. Wait. Yes.1 (10m 21s):Thank you. You welcome to you too.2 (10m 24s):So what I think is so interesting and must be so well, I don't know. I don't know if it's annoying or whatever it is, celebrities. You, they must have to always be in a process of deciding with when they're interacting with people, they don't know what are we going to do with this fact, like, do you know who I am? Do you not know who I am? If you know who I am, just, what does that mean? Is that why you're talking to me? And then, but he opened one of the first things you said that he said was that his mom's name was, I mean, I guess that's not unusual, but I was thinking to myself when you said that I was thinking, oh, was he hoping That would confirm not that his dad is famous.2 (11m 10s):His dad is1 (11m 10s):Trail horo. Israel.2 (11m 12s):Yeah. He's a kind of a terrible guy though.1 (11m 16s):I heard is there. I think they're both dead. I mean, from what I got, I don't know. I know he has a sister. I don't know. But like he seemed like the kind, yes, you're right. Like it must be so weird. And also I literally was so into my own world. It's like, so Los Angeles, like I, when I found out that he was, I was super excited because I wanted to say, oh, I saw you at the Metro in Chicago and stuff like that. But then I was like, oh, I can't. And so I got excited, but I also, it was literally like talking to your husband or my husband in that they're old people. Like I wanted to be more excited about the, the youthful version.2 (11m 56s):Right? You want it to be 19 year old, you eating Israel, horrible1 (12m 2s):Adam Harz and being like, let's go on a date or something. But that is not what I, that was not my inclination this time. And also his he's married to this amazing punk hero, Kathleen Hanna from bikini kill who I adore. And I know that, but I didn't bring that up either. But anyway, the point is we exchanged information because we were like, let's walk our dogs. His dog is Terry. It really hairy dog, little girl, dog named Terry. And I said, well, what kind of dog is Terry? And he goes, I don't know, very hairy. And I was like, okay, well, okay. So we may go on a dog-walking adventure. I have no idea, but lovely human, but just like soup. We are super middle age.1 (12m 43s):This is what the moral of this thing was actually not the celebrity. Part of it was the, what hit me the most Gina was the middle age in this of it all. So the other thing is like, nobody gives a shit now about the things that we give a shit about. So the BC boys, I was talking to my niece, she didn't know who that was. And so I was like, oh right. Meaning I still care who they are, but2 (13m 16s):Right. Yeah.1 (13m 17s):Time moves on timeframe.2 (13m 20s):Yeah. Periodically we have kids periodically, they'll come up to you and they'll be like, have you ever heard of this bay? Or like, my son was listening to something and I'm like, and I go, he goes, oh, I've got to play this song for you. It's this band. This is like obscure band or something like that. It was the cure. I go, are you kidding me, dude? I put white face makeup on and wore black and tried to hang my two years in junior high. I knew the cure is okay. So that was one thing. And the other thing was last time.1 (13m 52s):It super nice though. I got to say, if anybody cares, he was not a Dick head.2 (13m 56s):I care. Yeah. That's nice. I'm happy to hear that. But just one last thing about that whole, like being a celebrity, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't, because on the one hand you, you could have somebody say, oh, it's like pretentious to not say who you are. And on the other hand, people would say, you know, you can't win. You can't, you1 (14m 14s):Can't win. That is the bottom line. Yeah. Yeah.2 (14m 17s):So the other thing was last time we talked, you said, oh, I want to save it for the podcast, but about showcase. So you were talking about getting your kids ready for showcase.1 (14m 28s):Okay. So here's the deal with that. So I, because of this podcast, I'm like, okay, is there a way to make a showcase? Not the shit show that I feel it was now, there may not be, it might be inherent in the thing. Okay. But so I'm teaching fourth year. I like, basically don't even, I don't know what I'm teaching at this point, but not even teaching anymore. I'm done. And my, my, my, my co-teacher took over, but I started noticing as I always do that, that, that the students are like, you know, crazy nervous about the showcase and also crazy nervous about agents and managers and all the things.1 (15m 9s):Now, there is no showcase in LA. There was only a quote meet and greet. There is no showcase in New York. There was only quote, a meet and greet. Look, it gets weirder in Chicago. There was a live showcase and a meet and greet. Now, I don't know what went down, but the bottom line is the ball has been dropped so many times about this showcase and about graduation and about launching that at this point, the ball is just dead in a heap deflated. Okay. So I said, okay, well, what can I do to make this fucking situation better? Because I know what it's like to be there and be like, oh my God, I'm falling behind. What if so then I'm like, okay, everybody, here's what we're going to do.1 (15m 52s):I am going to email everyone I know in LA and everywhere and say, come to this showcase and watch your digital link. They have a virtual showcase. But the problem with that is nobody. If nobody gets sees it, it doesn't matter. And so it was made in a form beans where it looked like spam. So it went to everybody's spam. So no casting directors and no agents got the fucking link. And I realized that because I told a student of mine, I said, listen, you want to be repped by this one agency, let's create a letter to them. Let's pitch them. And so then I get a call from the agent saying, we loved this letter.1 (16m 33s):Also, thank you for including, we didn't think there was a showcase.4 (16m 37s):Oh my gosh.1 (16m 39s):And I said, what's,2 (16m 41s):This has to do with just the fact that like, there's been all this administrative,1 (16m 45s):I think it's, COVID meets the problem with conservatories, which is that they do not think that launching their students is an important part part of their job. Right? Right. So it falls to nobody. And so the person in charge bless her heart is one marketing person that knows nothing. I don't believe about acting or the entertainment industry at all. There is no Jane alderman. There, there is no, at least. So I stepped in to be like the proxy, Jane alderman with another adjunct. And we were like, okay, well, how do we do this? So I am happy to say that after literally making maybe 43 phone calls, everyone has the link.1 (17m 26s):People are coming to the showcases. Now my thing is to do the meet and greet in LA to try to get people there because these, these kiddos are coming to LA, there is no showcase. I'm like, well, we, what are we doing? Like we have to have something like, so, and I also just, you know, and I know these kids, like these are my students. So like, I want to meet them. And then, so now I'm getting everyone I know to come to the meet, greet in the business and2 (17m 51s):The money thing. Like, they're like, oh, well we have, we can do it online. And so we don't have to pay for, to rent the space for,1 (17m 59s):So they wouldn't even tell me, they wouldn't even tell me. They didn't even want to give me the invite to the LA thing. I had to like fight to get the, I don't understand what is going on. But I was like, listen, all right,2 (18m 11s):DePaul, I'm going to tell you something right now in DePaul. You want to be well-regarded you want to be number one. You want to always talk about your, your alum or even not your alum. People who, who went and got kicked out about their great successes. And you don't, but you don't want to do anything to get there. And that is not how it works, how it works is you put a lot of energy and I'm not saying at the expense of teachers or whatever, but you put a lot of energy and effort into not just hyping your students, but hyping your school.2 (18m 51s):Like it should be that your school is saying, have we got a crew for you? Yeah.1 (18m 56s):And which is what I then stepped in and had to do and be like, these kids are dope. Come see this, look at this link and then come to the thing. And so all the casting and agents in Chicago are now coming. Thank God, because guess who, there was one person RSVP2 (19m 14s):Girl, and you need a bonus1 (19m 16s):Stroke. Here's what we're doing. So then I said, okay, because I'm always thinking, I'm like, okay, well, here's what I'm doing. I'm developing a launching curriculum, which I think I told you about, like, I'm developing a day, one BFA for day one of the fourth year. Here's what we're going to do to launch you. And it's not just about the showcase. It's about mentorship. It's about how can we hook you up with somebody that's in what you want to do? How can we do that? And I'm going to pitch it. I'm going to say, here you pay me $120,000. And I will sell you this program and, and hook you up with teachers and people. I know that can step in and do this with me. Like you like people in the business, like people who are on different coasts, like duh, and then we will.1 (19m 58s):So, and if you don't want to buy it, DePaul theater school, we're selling it to Northwestern or NYU or any anyone.2 (20m 4s):Well, I was going to ask, do you know, if other conservatories are doing showcases and doing,1 (20m 9s):And they are, and they are doing it and they are, they are doing it. I, from what I can see, Gina, they're doing it better. I don't know if it's, you know, how good it is. But I do know that like other showcases released their digital showcase because of the pandemic on actors, accessing and town and casting networks, which DePaul did not do. Oh2 (20m 30s):My God.1 (20m 32s):So here's, so that is not okay with me because I went there and I, I do care about it because of this podcast. I also know that these kids having watched them at, you know, 21 year olds, 22 year olds, max, they're busting their ass, just like you. And I we're busting our ass. Like, look, they're busting their ass more than we were, but you and I busted her ass too. And I feel like we didn't get what we needed from the launch process. And what, what will happen is no one will people and people stopped going to theater school. Is that what you want? Or do you want to upgrade like level?1 (21m 13s):Let me run this by. There's a lot of people I hate.2 (21m 24s):Exactly, exactly. Okay. So the thing I wanted to run by you is about storytelling. I signed up for this workshop in my town. We have a little community theater and they sometimes have little workshops and I did improv there one time. And actually by the way, doing improv there, I I'm, I still am terrified of it. And I still don't feel like I'm I do well, but add it. But I reduced my fear somewhat by just aging within, and then we had a performance and my whole family came and yeah, it was, yeah.1 (22m 3s):Why don't we talk about what2 (22m 5s):She like two years ago or three years ago, actually. Yeah. Three or maybe even four years ago now. But anyway, on Sunday I went to, they ha they had a workshop led by a storyteller from the moth and she taught us, you know, how to, so there was only five of us there. One person, only one person absolutely knew when he came in. Exactly what story he wanted to tell. The rest of us were like, I have certain things that are coming to mind. Of course my thing. And I said, I was, I just owned it from the beginning was I've written essays. And I've, you know, written a lot about my life.2 (22m 46s):And yet I somehow feel like I don't have a story to tell. And she said, that's so common. She was telling this great story about somebody. Cause she does corporate stuff too. She was telling the story about somebody in a workshop, in a corporate workshop who just kept saying, I just, I don't have a story. I don't have a story. The day goes on. And he goes, well, I might have something, my family and I fled Vietnam right before this. And she goes, yeah, that's a story. That's a, that's a story you could tell. Anyway, point being, we're putting these stories together and we're going to perform them on Friday.2 (23m 34s):And the I'll say there is something about the process of working on it. That has been, it's not exactly healing, cause this is not a, for me at all. It's something I'm telling a story about when I lived in that apartment on Lil and Libby got me this job at the bakery and while we were, and she was very assiduous about being to work on time. And1 (24m 9s):I remember the, was it the red hen? Oh, we shouldn't say it out loud.2 (24m 12s):I actually, I really don't remember the name. I think it might have been called great Plains. I don't know. Okay. I don't think it's there anymore. And one of the things that was our task was to deal with the mice that inevitably came into the, in the flour sacks and stuff like that in the back. And, but I never she'd said to me, we have to deal with the mice, but I somehow, I hadn't really, really thought that through. And the way we were meant to deal with the mice was hit them over the head with a shovel.1 (24m 47s):Oh. So, so murder of the mice2 (24m 50s):Were into the mice. And so my story is about watching this five foot tall, gorgeous little, just, I mean, she looks like a bird, this girl, woman now, but she was a girl. Then I'm just swinging the shovel over her head and bringing it down. And then just very like with, with zero expression, taking paper towels and picking it up and throw it in the trash, washing her hands and making it back to the register in time for the next customer who came in. And my point of it, of the story is that's. That was one of my most important lessons about the difference between being poor and being broke because I was broke, you know, and always looking for jobs and always working through school.2 (25m 35s):But if it came to smashing a mouse over the head with a shovel, I'm just going to quit that job and go find another job, selling clothes at express. But Libby did not have such luxuries. She had to take the jobs that she could get. And she had to guard them with her life because as even, even with the amount of time she worked, there was a period of time where she would tell me, like, I'm going to bed hungry a lot of nights. And I couldn't help her, you know, because I was broke. I just, I didn't have we bought ramen. I mean, we right. Like six days a week.2 (26m 16s):And so it's about that. And so there's something about, but, but the fact that it's about this epoch in my life yeah. Which I haven't really written that much about, I've written about my childhood and I've written about things that are more contemporary, but you have a lot of experience with storytelling. And I'm curious to know what role that has played in sort of, you know, for one thing, the ability to string together, kind of the, of your life into a cohesive narrative. If, if1 (26m 47s):That's2 (26m 47s):Something that has been helpful or if maybe you have healed in some way, maybe from your one person show,1 (26m 53s):I am Gina. What comes to mind? Like what first came to mind when you were talking about your experience with this storytelling thing? Is it, what, what is the coolest thing to me about storytelling? Like this live lit as we like to call it in Chicago, just because I, storytelling people think it's like, we started calling it live live because people thought it was like, you know, Renaissance fair storytelling. Right. We had like a cheese ball, it's it doesn't matter. It's storytelling. So storytelling, bridges the gap for me. And maybe you have acting and writing. So it is both performance and writing, which I think is brilliant. I think acting is for the birds.1 (27m 35s):Like I just do. I think acting is really hard. I'm not very good at it. Not because I'm not a good person, but that's what I'm saying. I'm not very good at it because I don't like it as much as I like telling a story. That's my story. That also has a performance aspect to it. And it heals the acting thing for me. So you are acting, you are acting, you're not like you in your kitchen, just like when we do a podcast where there's a part of us, that's acting, it's not, you know, it just is what it is. So I think that that is extremely healing. And what, I wonder if it's extremely healing for you, because I feel like in terms of the acting thing, I know that post-graduation from an acting conservatory, you talk about just completely shutting down, completely not shutting down to the acting part of yourself.1 (28m 25s):And I think like through your son and then through this podcast and through writing television and now through storytelling and like your dip into improv, you're, you're healing, the actor part of yourself.2 (28m 37s):That's right. That's right. It1 (28m 38s):Wouldn't surprise me. If you went on to do acting like started acting in plays and stuff. Again,2 (28m 44s):I'm not going to lie. I'm really thinking about it at this point in time. I still feel like it's a bridge too far, just because I have nobody to spell me at home. You know, I can't ask my husband to leave his job so I can go to a play. But at some point, I mean, you know, they're not going to be this age forever. At some point I will be able to do that. And I do have designs on doing that actually.1 (29m 8s):Yeah. And I think, and I think you, I think this storytelling is brilliant because I think the cool thing about storytelling, as well as like you could go to New York city and do them off one night. It's not a, it's not a commitment like the play. In fact, you could do the risk thing that I did in New York. Like the rest of the podcast is live performances in New York. So all this to say that I think storytelling is a fantastic way to heal the part of ourselves that wants to be a performer, but definitely doesn't want, is not ready to take all the trappings and bullshit. That is a professional acting career, which is garbage. Like I got to say, like I just tell my students is to like the part of the business, which is why this is so fraught because it's garbage.1 (29m 55s):That's why you don't like it. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it to you. If you can find a way to make it worth it to you, the competition, the rejection, the then go for it. But what if that is bothersome? And like, you don't want to deal, like what about live lit? Like what about improv? What if there's so many other things? And so like, wouldn't it have been awesome. Gina. If someone had come to us fourth year and been like, Hey, you know what, maybe you get really nervous and that panic attacks when you have to audition. But what about like writing this thing and telling your story on, you know, on a stage somewhere where you get to hold the piece of paper2 (30m 34s):Today on the podcast, we are talking to Jeremy Owen. Jeremy is a storyteller and the creator of a storytelling show called George being ridiculous, which is premiering ask Stephanie, I think tomorrow or the next day, check it out. Please enjoy our conversation with Jeremy Owens. Wow. Congratulations. Jeremy Owens. You survive theater school. I want to hear this fabulous story. I missed the beat.1 (31m 11s):Yeah. So Gina, miss the beginning. So I was just basically saying that everyone's rusty and it's really good. We're talking about this because also Gina's performing storytelling this weekend and we were just talking about rusty. It was, everyone was after two years of not doing live lit stuff. And then Jeremy tells me that he did a show and of course we can, you don't have to use names and all that, but like did a show and it went south and by south, he's going to tell us what that means. It really went south. So7 (31m 41s):It really, when up it's like so complicated. Okay. So I was doing a fundraiser first off. I was like, I there's no way, like, who wants to watch me talk on zoom? Like we're doing that all the time. Like who even cares? How can this benefit anyone? But it's a fundraiser. My sister-in-law asked me amazing. I love it. Amen. Let's go. Let's do it. So we're doing it. And I, okay. I was not as cautious. And as careful as I should have been the show, I mean, you done the show, you did a show. I don't know if I can talk about your story, but you like got your tooth knocked out. That's1 (32m 22s):Oh, I believe me. I did. I gave a blow job and my back lower fell out. Yeah.7 (32m 28s):That's a story2 (32m 28s):Story. I7 (32m 31s):Share that story, but That's good. That's the, but that's like kind of the fuel it's like, you don't know what's going to happen. Some things are like, you know, super lovey Dubby. Sometimes somebody tells a story about a blow job and their tooth gets knocked out. It's like not a big deal. Like this is the world we live in. But I mean, if you're doing a corporate fundraiser for someone and I just, Alex, if you're listening, I love you. I just was not clued in. And that's my fault. That's not her fault. It's my fault. I accept responsibility for all those things. This is my disclaimer for my, for my sister-in-law. I accept all the responsibility for that. I just should have been more cautious.7 (33m 11s):Right. So if you're up for doing show or tea, fall out from low jobs, it's not that maybe not the best for like a board. Like those are the stories that people,1 (33m 20s):I7 (33m 20s):Didn't know1 (33m 21s):It is. If I'm on the fucking board, I'd probably not get,7 (33m 24s):I know, same for me. I mean, we went to theater school and I've decided like, as that has passed me by that we're not the same as like Bob down the street who is like wildly offended by anything, you know, sexual or1 (33m 42s):Anything2 (33m 42s):You ever get used to that, by the way, I, I I'm always like, oh really? We have to do this thing where I have to pretend like I'm talking to my grandma. Like you're a full grown adult standing in front of me. What's that?1 (33m 53s):What's your story about, please tell me something amazing. Gross, please.7 (33m 56s):I didn't even get to my story. That's the thing. Okay. So It wasn't even me. I wish it were me. It was like six or seven people. And I think we got like three or four in. And so as they're happening, I'm like, oh wow. That person said, fuck, oh no, this person's talking about porn. Oh, wow. Like things that like, just don't register for me. Right. Because I guess theater school. It's like, none of that registers for me. I'm not offended by anything other than like racist, white assholes.7 (34m 38s):Anything else? It doesn't register me. I don't. I know. I just don't care. I'm not bothered. So2 (34m 45s):Charity though. I mean,1 (34m 47s):It was like, there was it like the nuns of like a sister.7 (34m 50s):Oh, I don't want to say there. I don't want to say their name. I'll tell you1 (34m 54s):What Sater7 (34m 56s):Well, they're like1 (34m 58s):Healthcare, charity. He doesn't want7 (35m 1s):. Yes. I mean, it's a great charity. They do wonderful things. It's awesome. Right. But they weren't ready for1 (35m 12s):Me. So what happened? It just went blank.7 (35m 15s):Like we're just plopping along and I'm like so excited. Cause it's like July 20, 20. I have only been like talking to my dog and my husband. Right. So this is happening and I'm listening to stories. I'm having a great time. This is like amazing loving life porn who cares, you know, whatever. And then all of a sudden it stops working. Like I don't see anything. And I'm like, oh my God, this is my brother-in-law. I was like running the tech. I'm like, oh no,1 (35m 44s):He thought it was a tech thing. Of course.7 (35m 46s):I was like, well, this happened to me. I was taking this class online this weekend and the internet I had and I was like, oh shit. Like in the middle of class, I'm like, great. So now they think I'm an asshole. I just left class early. So I'm just like, this is dead. Right. Then they come, my sister-in-law calls me and tells me what's happening. And they're all furious. And they just, instead of like a conversation or something, or like this is coming or we're so disappointed, it was just like, this is over now. Like just totally dead. The bad part about that is that none of us knew. And there was no communication with me. Other if it hadn't been my sister-in-law, I don't know if I would, I would still be here on my computer.7 (36m 31s):Probably.1 (36m 32s):That's hilarious right there. Like, are you there yet?7 (36m 36s):Hello? Hi. Hi. They just didn't communicate at1 (36m 40s):All.2 (36m 43s):We're like, really? I'm getting irritated about this. Listen to the story is like, I don't know any of the players, but I feel like, I feel like we're the people we're pretending people are pretending that they don't watch porn or that they don't swear or, you know, like, why do I have to do this? Pretending I just love unless there was children in the audience and maybe there were,7 (37m 4s):I don't think so. Like, you know, it's like, I had like friends who1 (37m 8s):I curated it. Where you did you7 (37m 10s):Find, I mean, it's all, basically this entire thing is my fault. But like1 (37m 15s):You, you found everybody.7 (37m 17s):I found everybody, I got everybody. This was like a great in my mind was this is like a greatest hits. This is like, awesome.1 (37m 24s):It's the one time I'm so grateful. I was not asked to do anything. Like7 (37m 29s):It was just so weird. And there's like, I don't know it. Yeah, it was. But again,1 (37m 37s):I do the story for the ages. I love it. All of a sudden, it just goes blank.7 (37m 41s):I'm in the home. This is a story I'm going to, I just went blank. I didn't know what to do. Everything was gone. Just talking about those things. It doesn't, I don't find that if, when I say porn, I'm not like, this is the butthole. Like it wasn't like, you know what?2 (37m 59s):I7 (37m 59s):Watched porn. Right. That's not offensive to me.1 (38m 5s):I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Yeah. Like Gina was saying like we're okay. So that went south. Like if did you feel I'm really concerned? Like, cause I would have probably had to check in somewhere because I would have been like, I curated this motherfucker and now I caused this whole fucking7 (38m 23s):I'm still like T like we have a show coming up in like a week at Steppenwolf. And I had one of the storytellers from that show sent me a is doing the show at Steppenwolf. And I like had a moment because his story is like, because of that. And because I'm like wildly triggered, I was like, Hey, maybe you could do this story about tennis or whatever. And he's like, do you need a PG story? Like what's going on? And then I was like, and then I re-read a story. And I was like, I do not his stories about sex.7 (39m 5s):I do not find this offensive. This is okay. I'm person totally traumatized. And then I had to go back and be like, oh God, remember that thing that happened in 2020, I'm just totally melted from that. And your story is great and everything's fine. I'm just having a moment. I'm going to calm down2 (39m 24s):And see what happens to me though. When I hear w whenever my antenna go up, whenever I hear like, oh, that's offensive to me. That just automatically means you're doing behavior that you feel really ashamed of. And so you want to shame me instead of just own the truth of whatever it is you're doing. This is exactly what happens on the Handmaid's tale. You know, it's all about the Bible, but then they're just like holding people down and raping them. So I just think it's a little bit of a soft sign for you've got trouble. If adults are saying that referencing the fact that there is porn is7 (39m 58s):Troublesome. Yeah.1 (40m 2s):Oh my God. I can just, okay. I would have been so traumatized. So I hear you. And I also think that, like, it's interesting, I've had a similar thing where like, on this podcast, I've mentioned my husband's job. I have mentioned. And so Gina and I always talk about, well, we will not always, but we've had to talk about this of like, what is the, and it's like a bigger thing in our society right. In the world. Like, where do I draw the line of like, can I stand behind this? I guess that's what it is. It's like, can I stand? If I'm called to the carpet, whoever God, the board, whoever, and say, stand behind this show. These words can.1 (40m 43s):And that's when, if I can stand behind it and I am willing to answer for it. And I'm like, I'm all in. If I feel like I'm wishy washy, then I feel like it's going to go south. And then I it's weird. It's a weird thing. It's like when to cut, when to not cut, now, you didn't have the ability I'm fucking lives to do7 (41m 6s):That. What1 (41m 7s):Happens in live television, right? When someone who goes bonkers or has a stroke, God forbid, or it's like, you don't know what to do. So live is a different thing. Like it's different with a podcast. We can cut. We can, but like a live show, whether zoom or on stage, there is this moment. So when I did my solo show, Samantha Irby, Sam Irby opened for me. Right. Ramus. Now wasn't famous then. But it was always a Reverend and a bad-ass right. But data story at my show and my uncle were there about SAC,7 (41m 38s):Right.1 (41m 38s):Eight leakage and fluids. And I was like, oh. And then I thought, oh, I wanted to run on stage and be like, ah, this is too much. But then I thought you invited this person. This is their jam. This7 (41m 54s):We love. Right.1 (41m 58s):What, what, okay, sit, sit, and just deal with it. And if my uncle and my uncle was really offended and like, fuck that. Okay. So, but it's hard to do. I was squirming. So you must've been squirming when you, when your, when your person called you and was like, cause you, you found these people. But I think sometimes we squirm, right? Sometimes we squirm,7 (42m 21s):Oh my God, I was dying. Cause it's like, I don't, I don't want to disappoint any of, either of you, this computer, this desk. And I just want to make everyone so happy all the time. And I don't want anyone upset with me or like, I don't want to cause any problems, nothing. I want you all happy.1 (42m 42s):And sometimes despite our best people, pleasing efforts, like shit goes south. Like that is the story of shit going south. Despite Being a good person, having gone to college, go to it, shit still goes south. So7 (42m 55s):I vote like1 (42m 58s):You're very active, like socially.2 (43m 2s):So let's, let's talk about you and your experiences. Did you go to DePaul?7 (43m 7s):I wish I had gone to DePaul, but I, from listening to this podcast, I get that. I don't know. I went to Roosevelt university for grad school.2 (43m 17s):Cool. Tell us everything. Tell us, like, when you decided you wanted to be an actor and when you decided you wanted to go to theater school, tell us everything.7 (43m 25s):Well, for me, I grew up in Arkansas. So I went to the university of Arkansas and I started out as like a journalism and a political science major. But then they, the department, the journalism department had us take a speech class. Like how does speak in theater class, you know, to get rid of your accent basically. Cause we're all Arkansans. We sound like, you know, we're in God, but the wind or whatever. So we took this class and I had growing up and like my small town, I always loved theater. I'd done community theater and the whole thing. So when I took that class and like, everyone in there is like, you know, so alive and so like interesting and like, like real, I was like, well, this is going to be a problem.7 (44m 17s):So then I, like, I signed up for, you know, the second semester of the class. And then I was like, oh, I'm gonna audition for these one acts. And then so slowly I just migrated into the theater department and completely dropped journalism, political science, all of it. And disappointed my parents ruined their lives, you know, the whole thing. So I didn't really understand, like by the, by the end of my time in undergrad, I was like, I don't really, it's like, you're young. It's like, I don't understand grad school. I don't know. But that seems to be thing that I, there was a grad program that had just started there, like, like near the end of my time there.7 (44m 59s):And I was like, I guess that's what I'm supposed to do. And so everyone told me to go to Chicago. I hadn't ever been to Chicago. I knew nothing about it. Never even visited, but I was like, okay. They're like funny people should go to Chicago. And I'm like, oh, I'm funny. So I guess that's where I'll go.1 (45m 15s):You are funny. So it's good. You went there.7 (45m 17s):Thanks. So, so I auditioned at IRDAs and did that whole thing. And then I got a call back from them and I, it was like weird. Like I thought there was going to be like some like bigger process or something. Like, am I going to, I was like, ready, you know, with like my other, like, do you want 16 bars? Do you need other other monologues? Like, well, what's the deal? And it was just kind of like a done thing. So I was like, Yeah, it's like at the callback, there was like, it was an IRDAs. And it's like, you'd go to the person's hotel room, which now seems really creepy what, with a couple other people.7 (45m 57s):And it just seemed like I liked the person who did the interview and I was like, they're in Chicago. This seems great. I2 (46m 7s):Like to act in a hotel room. I've never7 (46m 9s):Done. Like, the audition was in, like, I don't even know where it was like the ballroom. It was like, there was like a black box sort of like made up situation. So you audition and then like the next day or a few hours later, you get like a sheet with a little list of the schools that want to like talk to you or whatever. And we have been like through the ringer with my undergrad teacher and she's like, okay, you need to have, like, you had like your folder with your monologues. And like, if someone wanted a song, like your whole thing, it's like bootcamp and you're ready. So I'm like prepared for somebody to ask me to do anything. And I don't know, I got called back to like a lot of places, which I was like, oh my God, none of them asked me for anything.7 (46m 54s):Which maybe looking back, maybe that was like, not a great situation. I don't know what that means.2 (46m 60s):They were just the, and the call back. They were just meeting you. Right. They were just wanting to know if you were like,7 (47m 4s):Yeah, I guess1 (47m 6s):You're acting probably wow. Like really? They probably would have if they were on the fence, but that probably wasn't that they probably wanted to do what, you know, they, they, a chemistry breed or whatever the fuck they call it. Right.7 (47m 18s):Yeah. I guess. But this meaning with the person at Roosevelt, it's like, she was nice. It was great. It felt good. So I was like, all right, maybe that's where I'm going. And I knew I wanted to get Chicago. So like, that was, that was the deal.2 (47m 36s):It's an undergrad. You were not thinking this at all. I'm guessing you don't come from a performing family or you, you weren't doing this in high school.7 (47m 44s):Oh my God. Well, there was like the junior play or whatever that like pays for the prom, you know, like that kind of a situation. But otherwise, like I did community theater and I'm from a town of like 10,000 people. So there wasn't like really a community theater. I did Annie and Mike, I don't know, 10th grade or something.1 (48m 3s):Amazing.7 (48m 4s):Really upset. I couldn't be Annie. I was like a Senator. And like the apple salesman. I was like that guy I'm like running around doing whatever anybody wanted me to do.1 (48m 20s):Funny. That's why he could do a lot funny.2 (48m 23s):Yeah. Interchangeable. Okay. So day one, you're at Roosevelt. Is this the education that you thought you were going to get7 (48m 32s):Funny? You should ask. So this, when I went, which was, this was 2000 yes. 2000. So it was their first year of their MFA program.1 (48m 44s):Oh shit.7 (48m 46s):Oh shit is right. They accepted 30 people take that in verse1 (48m 54s):307 (48m 55s):MFA. Oh yeah.1 (48m 57s):It's too many people that just like five.7 (49m 0s):Thank you. I think that if I'm being kind, I think they accepted a huge amount of people thinking that, you know, with everything going on that like maybe 10, which is still too many would accept. So there were 30 of us. So we're there on the first day. And I'm just like, this seems , I don't know anything about what this experience is supposed to be, but 30 people that's like, that's like an entire MFA program, you know, that's like three years of people or more So immediately.7 (49m 44s):I was just like,1 (49m 45s):Hmm,7 (49m 47s):This doesn't seem right. But you know, I was like 24. So I'm like so happy to be there. I'm living in my friend's base. My friend's mom's basement until I find an apartment just like, you know, desperate twenties times. So immediately. I was like, I, this is hi. All right.1 (50m 11s):I think I should get off this rollercoaster right now, but it's already going, right?7 (50m 16s):Yeah, totally. I just like was on. And because I didn't have like necessarily the support of my parents where this entire thing, I was like, fight or flight. Like I will do this. If I have to hang on to the side of the building and sleep like that, or like, whatever it is, I'm gonna do this. So I did it.2 (50m 49s):And is it a typical curriculum, voice and speech and movement and all that stuff?7 (50m 54s):Yeah. I was sort of surprised by all of it. The program that I did in undergrad, I felt, I don't know. I guess everyone in undergrad, if you're doing theater stuff there, you think that like, what you're doing is like enough and great. And that's how everything's going to go. So to spend like three hours a day in a movement class, suddenly when you're like, God damn it, let me do a monologue or a scene or sing a song. Like let me work. You know, I understand that that is also work and it's fundamental, but it was really shocking to me.1 (51m 37s):You know, what's interesting is like, and you're not the first person that I've, I felt this, that we've had on the show is like, what I would eat. Like you should have maybe gone right to second city and just done that call that five-year conservatives And gotten the fuck out, but it's not accredited. It's not like a real university that would probably make your parents even more like unhappy. And so, but like you needed like a professional program, like there's conservatory training for actors and then there's professional programs. And I wish I had done, so. Okay. But you're in this. How long was the Roosevelt MFA program?7 (52m 15s):Three years. Oh,1 (52m 16s):Fuck. Right.2 (52m 18s):And was it the thing where you can't perform the first year, but then you do and you're in the casting pool with VFS.7 (52m 26s):Yeah, I, we couldn't perform in the first year though, at the end of the first semester, they opened up an audition to be an intern at Chicago Shakespeare, which was like super exciting. So I auditioned and then I was doing the second semester, I got to be an intern and be on stage and do king Lear, Chicago, Shakespeare. I mean, I was like, you know, a dude, a homeless person running around. Oh, we got it. Yeah. So then I was like, oh no, this is great. I'm like with like these amazing people that I don't know who they are yet, but I will.7 (53m 9s):And there, those people are amazing2 (53m 12s):In that7 (53m 13s):Greg VIN CLER.1 (53m 15s):Oh yeah. was Barbara Gaines directing7 (53m 18s):Barbara Gaines director.1 (53m 20s):Yeah. She's amazing. She's she's famous for, for me, for my one audition I had there, she yawned during my whole model to be fair, but to be fair, it was really boring. Like, it was really boring. She was basically doing what I wish I could have done. It was boring. My shit was boring. She was like this. Can't see. But yeah, she was rude, but apropos I sucked anyway. Okay. So you were, you got to work at shakes and so you were like, okay, but did you make friends? What was the vibe like? BFA was the BFA program established at that time?7 (54m 2s):I think so. Oh, and that part. Okay. Like whatever I'll say about Roosevelt, which I don't have, I don't know necessarily great things to say about the program. It doesn't even exist anymore, PS, by the way. But the BFA program, the program for undergrads, I thought that was like, excellent. Like, I was like happy for those kids. Like that seemed like good. And they were having a good time, but for us it was just, I don't know. It just felt kind of sad and different.2 (54m 26s):So your parents were psyched about the idea of you being a journalist. That's what they thought you were going to.7 (54m 32s):I think the imaginary plan was that I would, or what I sold them at the time was I'm gonna get this journalism degree and then I'm gonna go to law school.1 (54m 43s):Oh,2 (54m 45s):Right. That's everybody's, catch-all hilarious.7 (54m 48s):So that's what I'm going to do. But then I was like, but these plays, these people, it's really the people that are purchased more fun.2 (54m 57s):I actually got dressed so many people in for exactly that reason. It's just something that's like tribal feeling that you don't know that you don't have it until you find it. And then you go, oh my God.7 (55m 8s):Yeah. It was really, it was really all encompassing. I was like, well, I can't not be with these people.2 (55m 15s):What kind of shows did you do there at Roosevelt?7 (55m 18s):I all right. So, so there was that first year experience. And then I don't know. I let's see, I did my last year.1 (55m 30s):Yeah. It just sticks out in your brain7 (55m 33s):Threepenny opera. And then there was this weird Asian adoptation of the rope by whatever old Greek guy,2 (55m 47s):Asian adaptation.7 (55m 48s):So here's one of the weird things about the program. So there were a couple of classes that made zero sense that we were taking as actors. One was, we all had to take a stage management management course. I don't know. Did you guys have to know1 (56m 5s):I7 (56m 5s):Was like1 (56m 5s):Crew, but I don't even know. No.7 (56m 8s):Well, yeah, like working on a cruise, like that's normal, but in an entire semester demo devoted to stage management just seems kind of rude.2 (56m 18s):It sounds like they needed stage managers for their shows1 (56m 22s):Teachers. Yeah.7 (56m 25s):And then there is a professor there who white lady who loved Asian theater. And so, yeah. Pause for that1 (56m 37s):PF chains of, she was trying to be the PF Chang's PF J7 (56m 44s):God lover. I mean, yes. I'm interested in Asian theater too, but everyone was required as part of the MFA program to take an Asian theater class. So, which is interesting. I'm not knocking like any of that, but the PA I don't know the possibility of me being in an Asian.2 (57m 7s):Yeah. Like what's the really,1 (57m 11s):It just sounds like she had a thing for her thing was Asian theater and she wanted everyone else's thing.7 (57m 16s):Total your thing. She had studied in, I don't know, Japan, I think, and had done this whole program and it was like her, she may even have like a PhD on it. I don't really know, but that was her thing and good for her. Awesome.1 (57m 31s):Why are you teaching? But it's7 (57m 33s):Not practical. Yeah. It just seems like weird. So the play I did, I did the, the rope, which is like a Greek play. Never2 (57m 42s):Heard of it.1 (57m 43s):I wish you had done the rain anyway.7 (57m 48s):So she translated the play into a Kyogen style thing, which is a very specific Asian theater style play. Not only that, not only that, but like, I have always been openly unapologetically sort of who I am, which means, hello, I'm a homosexual and it's clear and I'm not like afraid of that as an actor or a person. So I played the, yeah, get ready. I played the, I don't want to call it like the evil sister, but I played like the villain in the play, which was like an older, which type woman in the play.7 (58m 40s):And that was supposed to be hilarious.1 (58m 48s):That's really where we're headed in the arts. I'm also saying the arts in the logs shit went down. Not that7 (58m 56s):Some weird shipments out. Yeah. So it's like thinking about that now you would like wants to like light all of Chicago on fire. Right? Correct. But at the time, this I guess was like, cool, cool. And inventive to make the one gay guy that you were Sure was gay play a woman Asian drag. Oh my gosh. The whole thing is like Asian themed rides. and the whole thing I don't, I can't say for sure, but I don't think1 (59m 39s):So. What the fuck?7 (59m 42s):So just a bunch of white people running around and kimonos speaking in a very like, you know, meter to style Asian thing. And I'm a woman also.2 (59m 53s):I wish we had a video. I really want to watch this play. I mean, just like for a snippet, because you know, when you think of yourself and how seriously you took a role when you were young and you and you, and you just in your mind's eye, even if there's no video and you just imagine, like, what does this actually look like? And that's always looks funny, no matter what or sad. If it's a comedy, it looks sad. And if it's True. So that was one. Did you have any roles that you liked?7 (1h 0m 29s):I mean, kind of, well, there was like a, a directing project that one of my friends did. It was like a Steve Martin one act. And I was like, yeah, right. Like it was like a legit play that was like funny and good. And I had like the lead and I was like, it was like us, like a straight man that I was playing. And I like felt excited because it felt like I was like reaching. I'm not reaching, but you know what I mean? You're like, oh, this is a play. I'm like, yeah. I was like, do a thing. And I like am working for this goal to do. And I felt like I was successful in it and it felt good.7 (1h 1m 9s):But like, that was probably the one, even in my thesis role, which was like, I was like a random chorus person in Threepenny opera, literally it's my third year. I'm like, Hmm. I have to write 30 pages now on yeah. That's, it's like that.1 (1h 1m 27s):The thing like that, I just, and maybe you guys could chime in. And in terms of the curriculum, there doesn't seem to be an actual curriculum for these programs. Like now that I'm teaching, I'm like, wait, what, what is the7 (1h 1m 42s):Tactical?1 (1h 1m 43s):And what is the piece of paper that you can point to, to say, this is the mission of these three years for these MFA actors. There is no plan. What is the plan? That's what I feel about a lot of this is, and it's still to this day in, in conservatories, what is the fucking plan? Because there doesn't seem to be one and there's not a plan. We shouldn't be charging dollars to these people. I just, I, it should be, then it should be camp, a freak out where we go when we, I don't know. Anyway. So2 (1h 2m 15s):I mean, honestly, like it's, it needs to be treated a little bit more like a school and pass fail, right?7 (1h 2m 23s):Yeah. Like the goal it's like, if you're a journalist, like, can you do these things? Can you write a bituaries? Can you write a news story? Can you do the, you know what I mean? So it's like, when I leave this place, am I going to be able to get a job? And I know that like, everyone's like, theater's like, oh gosh, you're never going to work or whatever, but that, it's just not true. It's like, everything is the same. There are basic skills. Do you have them,1 (1h 2m 50s):There are milestones to meet along the way. And if you, I mean, anyway, I it's just, the more we interview folks, the more I'm like, oh, this whole higher ed situation, fine arts needs a whole overhaul. I don't know what it's going to take, but we'll probably be extinct on the planet before it happened. So I just feel like maybe that's the way it's going to go and okay. But like, okay, so you graduate, you then are like, okay, I have this MFA. Then what happens to you7 (1h 3m 21s):By the end of the program? I was really like, I don't know. I feel like it kind of, it kind of broke me because things like that were happening, which in a way is like, I mean, at the time we didn't have the language for like, you know, playing an Asian woman in a play, like it's offensive. And it's like, not furthering me. It's racist. It's not furthering me as an actor. I'm not going to leave here and like run around and Komodo and place for the rest of my life. It just kind of broke me. And a lot of the, I would say some of the teachers, the whole situation just didn't make me feel good.7 (1h 4m 4s):So at the end, I was like, you know what, maybe? Hm. I don't know. I need, I needed a break from that whole world. I mean, I did audition for awhile, but the shortest while1 (1h 4m 21s):How short,7 (1h 4m 26s):Maybe it was a couple years1 (1h 4m 28s):Because we have Gina's trajectory and mine, mine too. Like I stopped after I stopped after three.7 (1h 4m 35s):Yeah. I was probably three years. Like slowly, just petered out. I mean, I got to the point where I'm like going. So I went on a few theater auditions in the beginning and then I had an agent and I would go on these, like on camera calls. And I would just be like, oh my God, I'm in this giant room with a hundred people that are dressed and look just like me. This is the most pressing thing. Like, I just was like, I can't, this isn't, this doesn't feel good either.2 (1h 5m 6s):I want to hear how eventually, how we get to storytelling. But before we do, I just, I didn't want to leave the whole Roosevelt thing without, I don't think I've really asked anybody this before, but you're not the first person who basically says to us, like, I'm gay. They didn't know what to do with me in theater school. Right.7 (1h 5m 30s):So2 (1h 5m 32s):I don't know if this is a question or a comment or what, or like just a prompt for discussion, but what is the barrier there? I mean, it seems like what you're saying about this role that you got cast, it's like, you're gay. So you'd like to wear drag. Is that what the thinking was?7 (1h 5m 47s):I don't know. For me, it's two things. It's like, there's the gay thing for sure. But also I'm funny. So if you're in a serious theater program, please understand I'm doing some heavy air quotes because every theater program thinks they're a serious theater program. They really do not know what to do with people who are fitting into the definition of serious. And so I think yes, there is like me, the stereotypical gay person or whatever, if I am so there's that person, but that's usually a funny person.7 (1h 6m 28s):And so then they don't like it totally. This is serious. We're doing real serious work here. How can this work?1 (1h 6m 38s):It makes that, that makes me, it makes sense. And it also makes me so angry, just Raging, also like fucking pick different motherfucking material. You've that fits your mother fucking class. You dumb fucks. That is what we're supposed to be doing is picking material that highlight our students and help them grow in a way and not the pick different place.7 (1h 7m 3s):Well, that's really where in that and the whole situation, I feel like that's, that's what sort of killed me is that there wasn't a place for me. No one cared to create one and you are, I already felt like I don't fit here. I don't belong. And so it's just like that slowly, just really like sinks in. So you've got that going on. You've got your there with 30 actors and it was kind of, honestly, it was sort of like easy to just like hide, you know, unless I'm being called to play the Asian lady on the play. So it's just like a kind of just was like, eh,1 (1h 7m 43s):Yeah, you gave up. But they gave up on at first.7 (1h 7m 48s):It is honestly,1 (1h 7m 50s):We give up when people give up on us first, especially as young people.2 (1h 7m 53s):That's true. That's true. So you're in audition rooms after school. You're, you're feeling like this is depressing. There's 5,000 mess and we all look the same. How, how did, how did you evolve from that to what you're currently doing, which I'm going to go on a limb and say is fulfilling to you artistically fulfilling to you what you're doing?7 (1h 8m 13s):I would say yes. Okay. How did that happen? I mean, after, you know, just deciding I'm not going to go on these calls anymore. I just, like, I was like, okay, then I'll, I'm working in a restaurant. So that's what I'm, I'm gonna work in. I work in restaurants now. That's what I do. And I did that for a while. And then I was just like, okay, but wow, this can't be it. Like, even if you, as an actor, like whatever level you achieve as an actor, I think there's always that part of you. Who's like, yeah, but like, can I talk somewhere?7 (1h 8m 54s):And people just like to listen to me or just let me tell, you know, just get really enthusiastic with storytelling at a party. Or like, whatever. I, I didn't know about the moth or a storytelling or any of that stuff. I really was just like this theater experience, grad school was so bad for me. And I'm too afraid to go to second city to do improv because I had sat through, you know, the first year of friends doing that. And I was like, well, I'm not doing this terrifying. So I thought, Hey, what if I get some actors together?7 (1h 9m 37s):And we will write monologues, which is how I thought of it at the beginning, it'll be like loosely based on a theme and we'll do a monologue show. I think I had just seen Nora Ephron's play love loss and what I wore. And so there's all these women on stage telling this like, story. And I was like, oh my God, I'm not a playwright. I can never like, make this happen necessarily. But like, if there are people on a stage and then they're just like one by one, like telling a story based on a theme, like, oh my gosh, this is revolutionary. I've just invented this whole new thing. So that is sort of where I started.1 (1h 10m 14s):When was that? I

Intro: David Schwimmer, Zazie Beetz, Grace Gummer, and Joe Sikora teach us about sexual harassment, Let Me Run This By You: I think a ghost is peeing in my basement. Fulling mills, alcoholics, Johnny Depp, Britney Spears.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.2 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (39s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. This is Gina reporting to you on a beautiful spring day. I hope it is a beautiful spring day wherever you are, or if it's not, I hope it will be very soon. We are guests lists in this episode today, as I reported to a couple of weeks ago should happens. We had recorded a great episode with a lovely person and just their audio didn't record at all. You know, just one of those things like internet gremlins, bloody body boss. So we're going to re up with him at some point, but we do have coming down the pike, a few really great episodes, including Glen Davis, the director of Steppenwolf theater company and Trammel Tillman, the actor who plays Mr.2 (1m 28s):Mel chick and severance. And if you listen to this podcast, do you know how much I love severance? I'm really, really excited about that one also Sumia Taka Shima. So we've got some really fantastic interviews lined up. I hope you will be tuning in and the upcoming weeks. And just another note to say, thank you so much for your ongoing support and listenership. We really love doing this podcast. Love making it for you. So we love that you enjoy listening to it. And if you haven't already, you should check out our website, undeniable writers.com and our social media.2 (2m 14s):We're on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Do you think we should get off of Facebook? Well, do you think we should get on Facebook? Do you think we should get off Twitter? See, I really want to make the great break. I want to get away from social media, but I feel I'm trapped now. You know, because professionally and personally, it's a great way to connect with a lot of people that I otherwise wouldn't be able to connect with, but it's, it's just this equal parts, terrible and wonderful creation, and we're all completely addicted to it. So, you know, who knows what's who knows how this is gonna work out for us?2 (2m 55s):Honestly, it could go either way. We could figure out a way to manage this problem and get on top of it and figure out a way to have enjoyment, but not addiction to social media. Or we could all find ourselves waking up in the middle of a Handmaid's tale. I mean, we are kind of headed that way. It's really looking like people want us to live in Gilliad. And for whatever reason, I just don't feel like people who don't want to live in Gilliad are good at making it so that we don't live in Gilead, myself included. What am I doing? I'm donating money.2 (3m 36s):I mean, fat, lot of good. That really does so, wow. This is taking a bad turn. I don't mean for it to do that. I really want to express my love and appreciation for you all and my excitement about our upcoming episodes and my wish that you connect with us on social media, that's killing us all. And I hope you enjoy today's episode, which we are entitling. I'm going to have to accept that. I will always look like Dora the Explorer at some point, please enjoy Hey, sexual harassment training.2 (4m 41s):So in order for my son to get his work permit, you know, through, you have to go through this training and it said it would take an hour. And I was thinking like, is that really gonna take an hour? It's like one full hour because it's one of these, did you ever have to do it? Yeah. You can't go to the next slide until1 (5m 2s):No, no. They make sure your ass is there for an hour. Gina.2 (5m 6s):That's right. And you know, I do have to say it is something I really miss about California. People complain about the bureaucracy and the, you know, and in this training, you know, it's infantilizing in certain ways. But like, if you have to make things accessible to all people and it's like, if it's infantilizing to you or you already know it, consider yourself lucky. Well also about the people that don't already know, it like1 (5m 37s):Gina, the, the majority of our world, especially those who harass people are in like infants who need hand-holding. So we need to infantilize them because they're fucking infants and they need this shit from the ground. Like, dude, I love it. Like, I love the fact that they won't, that they won't like fast-forward until you wash them. Because you know, these motherfuckers, the people who really need to watch it would fast forward through the whole thing and think they don't need it.2 (6m 9s):Yeah. I mean, maybe we actually need to be infantilizing. I am often accused of, You know, expecting too much from people, you know, like I just, the number of times somebody says to me, yeah. But I just don't think most people will understand that or, you know, think about it that way. Anyway, I completed it. And it was so the one you saw did it have like David Schwimmer and Zazie Beetz and Gracie Gummer I guess that was so sweet. And Joseph Cora,1 (6m 48s):Cora Joseph. I actually watched it with miles when miles, my husband had to do it for his new job. And I was like, I know all the And they must pay so much. I mean, like I either they're doing it for free or,2 (7m 4s):Oh, I assume they were doing it for free. I assumed it was like, we're doing this well. Cause it was through rain, rain made the videos. So I would assume that1 (7m 13s):People2 (7m 14s):Aren't asking rain to pay them1 (7m 16s):Like a million dollar2 (7m 18s):Scale or whatever.1 (7m 21s):No, my fee is actually 1.3 million for this sexual harassment for2 (7m 27s):Video, the second video1 (7m 28s):And tire rape video. Yeah. You're going to pay me anyway.2 (7m 33s):Hey, how are you? I love your crushed blue velvet.1 (7m 37s):Thank you. I, yeah, my, my standard thing now is like, I literally have like 10 meetings a day, which is hilarious. So a lot of it is my students getting ready to launch. So a lot of it is really motivated and highly stressed, 22 year olds that are like, ha who? And I love it. And I love meeting with them and they also are, you know, just exactly where we were the same thing of like, and in fact, a lot of them, yeah. They're ahead of where we were, because at least they know there's a fucking problem,2 (8m 18s):Right? Yeah. There, they don't necessarily have their head all the way up inside of the crevice of their ass. Like I did. Exactly. Well. That's cool. Yeah.1 (8m 29s):So I'm doing that. And like, I don't know. There was something I thought if you, I feel like I haven't talked to you in so long.2 (8m 36s):I agree. Well, I think it's because you have so many meetings. You're busy all day long. Thank goodness you have your new fancy office. How's it working?1 (8m 44s):I do. It's working great. We haven't, I'm in the focus room now because we don't have our rug yet. And our rug will mask all the sound. And also, yeah, I didn't to be in a booth. So we have these tall booths that are, are for doing this kind of thing, but the seat I'm old and the chair is not that comfortable. So I'm in the focus from, there's also a pumping room Moms. I don't go in that room, but there's a refrigerator in there. Like you can put your breast milk.2 (9m 14s):A cool,1 (9m 14s):Hilarious.2 (9m 16s):I pumped in so many disgusting places pumped at Yankee stadium. Yes. Like in the women's bathroom, take me out to the ball game or something like that. I've pumped in many bathrooms. I've pumped in while driving I've driving. Yes. It's, it's hard to be a woman. Did I tell you about Jesse Klein's book?1 (9m 45s):No.2 (9m 46s):Wait, Jesse Klein is a writer and she, she wrote her second book. First one was called. You'll grow out of it. And the second one, this one is called, I'll see myself out. She was the sh writer for inside Amy Schumer. She's now the show runner for, I love that for you, which I want to watch.1 (10m 5s):Yeah. I did not read the books and you love the first one, right? Or2 (10m 9s):I love the first one and I love the second one. The second one. She just, I mean, the thing about, cause she, she just really states a very, very, very true truth, which is that what certain women who are mothers just don't see a lot of like their experience of motherhood reflected in, in, Out there. Right. When I was pregnant with my first child, I read a book called the girlfriend's guide to having a baby. I picked this, it talked about infantilizing and finalizing only named book title, you know, from the other options because the other ones seemed, if you can believe even cornea or even worse in my lasting impression.2 (11m 1s):I mean, there was not that it was all terrible. I read that and I read a Jenny McCarthy book.1 (11m 5s):I was going to say, did you read the Jenny? That was your option.2 (11m 9s):That was my options. And my lasting impression of the girlfriend's guide book was like, it was a lot about how you were going to lose the weight after the baby. And her thing was like, this was her advice at the beginning of the week, make an enormous vegetable stew. And every time you're hungry, grab yourself a cup of this tasteless flavorless calorie list.1 (11m 40s):Oh my2 (11m 41s):God. And my ass, I did try to do it. I tried for like, cause I came home and I was like, oh, I still am six months pregnant. It looks like. So I, at that time, in my life, it was very concerned about getting back to my pre-baby weight, which never happens for most of us. And, and I basically, while I was nursing, I basically starved myself on this vegetable route. And all of this is to say, Jesse Klein says the unsayable. She speaks the taboos of like, listen, sometimes you regret being a mom. There are days where you're like, it wasn't worth it the other days where you say it was, but you're not allowed to ever feel like what gets reflected back to us as like, you know, you're so lucky.2 (12m 29s):It's a sh it's a miracle you should just forever be grateful for.1 (12m 34s):Well, the other thing that I'm noticing is, and you know, it's apropos mother's day just happened. Right? So I'm also noticing that there are, there's another school of people that are saying that our childless women are childless people, but mostly childless women that I know that are like, well, they did it to themselves. So like, I don't feel bad for them. And I don't have that feeling. I don't have kids, but I, I definitely feel like it is a choice for most people to have a kid. And I mean, if our government has its way, it will be a choice. Right. It'll be just your forest, but most people have a choice. And so, but just because you make a choice, this is my other thing.1 (13m 15s):And it's the same with like, people that, you know, talk about like people choosing to do drugs and choosing just because someone makes a choice does not mean that they are, they, they should deserve to suffer in some horrible way. If they're not happy with the choice or they've made a choice that on some days they feel like it wasn't the right choice. So I feel like to say like, oh, F mothers breeders and all that stuff. That is also for me not okay, because what it is saying is that right? Like, because you made this choice at a given point in your life, you now are like deserve any bad thing that comes from that choice.1 (13m 54s):And I don't believe, I feel three the best they can every day, whether it's a kid or whatever to get through. And so I think that's the backlash of, you know, the opposite of, of the childless movement, which is like people who choose to have children are somehow also for, I don't know.2 (14m 14s):Yeah. Well, we're all assholes. This is the point1 (14m 18s):Your essay was asshole. Just like us. So2 (14m 21s):That's like us, they are us. We are the assholes, all, every single one of us. So yeah. I, I mean, I totally understand. I see all sides of that argument. I see. I can understand why women who don't have want to have children feel, I understand why they are. They feel angry because they are made to feel like there's something wrong with them by multiple people, including therapists. And as you experienced seemingly benign comments that people think just being, I mean, do you get, do you get a lot of flack about not having kids? No.1 (14m 56s):I think I would, if my parents were alive, so I'm kind of glad they're dead on that way. And then also, because, because it would, my mom, well, the thing is that my mom, when I was taking care of her, the funny story is that she was pressuring me to have kids with miles and we had just gotten married and she was dying and it was not the right time clearly. And then towards the end, after when she was really dying, dying, and I was taking care of her and I was like, I would like boss her around because she wouldn't do what I said. I was like, mom, you cannot do this. You can not do that. Like I was so worried about her that I became a giant pain in the ass and she was like, maybe it's better. You don't have kids2 (15m 51s):For the last two years since we got actually, before we got Wallace, the dog, we had Millie the rabbit.1 (15m 59s):I2 (16m 1s):Was a sad APOC with Millie of the rabbit. My son wanted a rabbit. I said, no, my husband bought it when I was out of town. And I knew, yeah, I know I went out of town.1 (16m 16s):Well, it didn't, you do get a dog in Oakland when, when Aaron was out of town and you,2 (16m 21s):He wasn't out of town. I was just like on a walk with my friend that I came home with a dog. Yes.1 (16m 25s):And he said, and he said, something happened. And he said, did you meet bill Cosby? Yeah.2 (16m 29s):And she thought, I said, you have to come home because there's somebody I want you to meet. And all he could imagine it was that it was bill cost. Right? Yeah. Got it. Yeah. He would have been worried. So yeah. So when my son had Millie the rabbit, you know, he was learning what it means to take care of another creature. And he wasn't always that excited to take care of her. And one of the things that he did was let her free roam around certain places, which was against the rules. And one of the places that she free roamed was in our basement, which meant that she peed and pooped.2 (17m 9s):And we're, you know, years later we're still finding a little thing. Anyway, this meant that when we got Wallace, the dog and he went into the basement, he immediately peed off1 (17m 20s):All the things.2 (17m 21s):Correct. And so we stopped letting him go into the basement. I bought a case of this urine foam deodorizer shit. Cause we had rugs down there. That's in work. We threw the rugs away. We got carpet tiles. The idea like if it happens in one place we can clean or, or get rid of this one tile when I have to replace a whole rug. And that dog has not to, my knowledge has not been in the basement for at least a year. And it still smells like pee. We have steam cleaned and, and foam till the cows come up. When I tell you this is something I have dealt with every single day, since we've basically, since we've lived here, I it's no exaggeration.2 (18m 9s):And So what it is is my obsession. My obsessionality focuses on one of these things. All my energy gets put into this. When we lived in New York, it was the rats and the mice. Now it's the P So I, I approached this, like I am going to dominate the S P smell. Then my life is going to be complete. And I finally did it. I S I said, there's no more cleaning these carpet tiles. We've got to take them all up, which was very difficult to do. And we took them all up. I was so proud because I had to really face it, you know, getting down on my hands and knees.2 (18m 51s):I had to really contend with that. Smelling P is like the worst thing for me. I was so proud of myself, my two sons and I, we did all of the work. It didn't smell like pee last night for the very first time the whole family hung out in the basement because we have fun stuff to do down there. We've got a ping pong table and gymnastics equipment and workout stuff. And my daughter, and has been worked down there and I'm like, I'm going to join them. It doesn't suck to be in the basement anymore. We're having a great time. I felt like I was the, one of those prescription commercials. The montage1 (19m 27s):With the medicines like called like rejuvenate X or like Family.2 (19m 33s):I'm throwing my head back and laughing. And we're just enjoying this, having a grand old time. And I decided I'm going to move the laundry along. Cause our laundry is down there. And I pick up this thing of clean wash and stuff. I start folding. I pick up one, I smell pee.1 (19m 55s):Oh my God. Oh my God.2 (19m 57s):And I looked down and the laundry basket that it was put in was a cloth basket all around the bottom. I see it like a four inch ring of yellow around the bottom of my laundry basket. The basket. Well, here are my options for what happened. A Wallace knows how to open the door and goes downstairs to pee. When nobody's looking, it seems unlikely B he somehow gets down there when somebody forgets to close the door. But even then it seems unlikely. Cause I wouldn't. I would know if that happened with any frequency.2 (20m 40s):See, There's a ghost peeing in my Apigee1 (20m 47s):Ghost.2 (20m 48s):Migos1 (20m 49s):Unlikely,2 (20m 51s):Unlikely.1 (20m 54s):I2 (20m 54s):S I F I felt like I was going crazy. I felt last night with this issue, I thought I'll never be free from this.1 (21m 4s):You're like Plagued with the P.2 (21m 7s):And you know, the street that we live on is called fulling mill and a fulling mill is refers to a place where in the process of creating Textiles, they did something with the sh the wool and the S and it had to be cleaned with urine1 (21m 29s):Shuts your mouth this way.2 (21m 32s):Yes. Ma'am yes. Ma'am this entire area. A little clock that I live1 (21m 37s):On2 (21m 39s):Was, is named for what it was. And this one, this town was founded in the 17 hundreds, which was the place down by the water where they cleaned, wash the wool with urine, for whatever reason. Yeah. I mean, could it be that we are just dealing with 300 years Of1 (21m 60s):P well,2 (22m 1s):Hasn't seen, right.1 (22m 2s):I know I it's one of your kids pig and the baskets.2 (22m 6s):I mean, well, in this particular basket, it was around the outside of it.1 (22m 11s):No. So Sue Wallace picked up the leg. We put, what was her2 (22m 17s):Around it? Not just like in one spot,1 (22m 20s):It doesn't make any sense. So we have no answers still.2 (22m 24s):I have no answers. I threw away the laundry basket and it doesn't smell like pee down there any more. But I just, I just realized like, okay, well, this is where it's about my obsession and my intolerance, right? When we lived in New York, I was so traumatized by the rats and the mice. And I just became so deeply intolerant. And that's how it works with fears, as you know, oh,1 (22m 49s):The2 (22m 50s):More you back away from it, the worse it is. Right.1 (22m 53s):And also it's, you're like super, what was it? It was, it's not entirely, it's not intolerant. It's also unreasonable. We become totally on it is an intolerant, but it's like, we become unreasonable about our willingness not to let go of the thing. Like, I, I get it. I've been there when I am. I've been there. But like, what I'm really anointed is is that you're not telling me the answer to what happened. We don't know2 (23m 20s):Girl. I do not know. I don't know.1 (23m 24s):No.2 (23m 25s):No.1 (23m 26s):Okay. So it hasn't flooded. You've never had, so we just don't know how and no other, where there any other laundry baskets in the basement that have this problem?2 (23m 36s):No. Okay. Here's what all allow for allow for This possible, even though the dog never pees inside the house, to my knowledge, you know, I mean, he's two years old now. He really, to my knowledge, hasn't done it in at least a year. Maybe at some point, one of this basket was in my daughter's room. He sometimes sleeps in there, but, but even then I felt like I would have smelled it when I walked in the room,1 (24m 3s):I feel like he would have done it. Why around the basket, this doesn't make any sense.2 (24m 7s):It makes no sense. It makes no sense. I'm choosing to think about it. Like, yeah, there's, there's, there's the logistical practical thing of like, figuring out what happened and try not to let it happen again. But then there's the other, perhaps more important thing, which is, well, it's the, if you're going to pick this to be your thing, you know, you're always going to be vexed by it. That's what I'm, that's what I, it just didn't occur to me really until last night. Like, I'm, there's a part of this that I am doing to myself. Yes. It's P whatever, like we clean it and we move on. Right.1 (24m 42s):So, you know, it is, it is sort of, to me what the P represents in terms of, for me, it's a very, I have a dog that is a very, very bad dog. And she, what is it? What does it mean? If I have a very bad dog? What does it mean that if my dog is not civilized and behaved or doesn't give a shit about following rules, or it means that I have done something wrong and I cannot get clean. Like, it just it's, it cannot, I cannot get clean. Like that is the feeling is I can not, I can never do it. Right. I can never have a perfect dog.1 (25m 23s):And why, why other people seem to, I can't get my dog to be perfect. And it is, it becomes an obsession obsession. So like, my dog got put in timeout, you know, a daycare and like, I could not get over it. I was like, why? I was like, wait, what does this mean? Like I had a whole thing and she has not been back to daycare sentence because I'm like, I cannot risk her going. And then, then she got kennel cough, which is the real reason. And it's expensive as hell. But underneath there is this thing of like, I do not want to deal with my dog getting a bad report every time that she did something rotten and went to time out, time out, which is like five minutes alone with a person it's not even a thing, but like, it is a thing to me.1 (26m 6s):So I get it. And I also do think that it's, I have to I'm of two minds, right? Cause like I'm of the mystery, true crime mind, like I'm trying to figure out. And the, the, and the other mind is the psychological realism. Mine. That's like, no, this is about you and your need to want to be perfect, you know, and want to have a perfect basement where you can have the perfect pharmaceutical commercial.2 (26m 31s):Yes. And you know what also just drives me nuts about myself is that every time I have this moment, I have a satisfying moment like that. I can't really load into like, and so this is how it's always going to be now. I really1 (26m 49s):Believe2 (26m 50s):This is how it's supposed to be. And it's like, and I finally figured out how to do it as if any happy moment isn't just fleeting or, you know, lasts for however long it lasts. Yeah.1 (27m 0s):Right. And we're told that they, you know, like they do and that, you know, it's just like every, any time I cut my hair, I'm looking at my neck. It's always turns into Dora the Explorer hair. I cannot stop my hair for being Dora the Explorer. And it's just because it's thick. So she can, she razors it's down. She does all the things. But as soon as it starts to grow, it is Dora the Explorer hair. And I am just going to have to embrace the door or the hair or2 (27m 32s):Jumps, or1 (27m 33s):Just shaved my head.2 (27m 35s):And also, I mean, take heart because most people who are going through menopause start really losing their hair. So you're still growing loud and proud.1 (27m 45s):It's like a triangle head. I just said, yeah,2 (27m 48s):I know. I get the same thing. It's just1 (27m 50s):Thick. And like, what is happening? Oh yeah. Anyway,2 (27m 54s):How much would she charge if you just asked every couple of weeks to go back in just for a quick ride?1 (27m 57s):Sure. I could do that. I could do that. And then, but then, then I have to confront my fear of breaking the salon chair. Remember that whole fear. I have all these fears,2 (28m 6s):But you've sat in that chair and it didn't break. So1 (28m 9s):No, no, it's going to be fine.2 (28m 10s):I think you're good.1 (28m 11s):I'm going to be good. I'm going to be okay. So that's okay. So, but the other thing I have to say is like speaking of urine is I had a friend in high school who's and this is like pretty sad, but her dad was a drunk and every night he would drink and every night he would pee in the hamper because he would think it was the toilet. So he would walk to the, so this reminded me of that, of like, he was so wasted in the night, in the dark and he would get up in a drunken stupor every night. And then I was like, well, why don't you start? Like, I just, now I'm like, why didn't they move the hamper? Or first of all, why they get his ass out of, to rehab. But like, that's the Real underlying question, but like, why not move the hamper and like put a bowl or something.2 (28m 58s):That's an interesting that, that I don't know how that family responded to it. But like, but that way of thinking about it too, like, that's exactly what I would be thinking. Well, I just have to move the hamper.1 (29m 11s):That's also enable whole fucking bright.2 (29m 13s):Right, right. That is a sad story.1 (29m 17s):It happens a lot where people pee in corners and things. And I had died of a brain aneurysm later, but I had a friend who got so wasted. They literally shit in someone's houseplant. And didn't2 (29m 35s):Inside the house.1 (29m 36s):Yes. He tells, he tells a story about it and he, yeah, he shit in his, he was drunk and shit in, or maybe it was high. He was on drugs, something was wrong. And he found out later cause his friend I think told him,2 (29m 53s):Yeah. Right. It's like, Hey buddy, we gotta have a talk. I mean, I'm willing to put up with a lot, but it's shitting in my plants, shipment my ficus. That's where I got to draw the line.1 (30m 6s):All the2 (30m 6s):Things that it is likely. And by the way, I mean, I ever since writing the essay, like I can't pay any more attention to this Johnny Depp thing and whatever it does come my way. It's just sounds like it's like a bunch of fecal matter. And1 (30m 21s):Okay. So I had2 (30m 22s):None1 (30m 23s):After I read your essay, I was like, okay, let me just check it out. And I was at my friend Jesus house and she was like, you've got to listen. She had like it T vote or something. And she's like, I saved this for you to listen to, because I literally could not understand what he was saying. And I said what? She said, no, it is the most at the same time. And I, and I agree, monotonous mixed with mumble dialogue mix with circular logic, mixed with an effect mixed with pretend and mixed with benzodiazepines. I think he's on to keep him sober and like quote sober.1 (31m 4s):I literally thought, oh, this is a technique he's using to like lawless all into believing, whatever. He, it's so hard to track that the brain goes, just let it go. Like don't even2 (31m 20s):Right. Right. And he gets that privilege because, or he has traditionally because of his looks and his status. Yeah. Oh my God. I speak about looks and status. We predicted it. Brittany Spears is back on her bullshit posting nude selfies. I'm the girl is sick. The woman is sick. And I'm not saying she needs to have whatever, some draconian like guardianship, but she's, but now we know why, because she won't take her GED medicine because people like to feel manic. Right.1 (31m 51s):And also it's going2 (31m 52s):To end badly. It's going to end badly1 (31m 53s):And badly. And also the thing I, our friend on social media, Jimmy McDermott posted. Cause I posted like, you know, I want to write a pilot about this trial. And I said, but I'm going to like totally redo the costuming and the SATs. And then Jimmy mid-term had said, yeah, Johnny tap literally looks like he's the tour bus driver of the Al Capone tour in Chicago. Like he2 (32m 16s):Got, he1 (32m 17s):Does like2 (32m 18s):Three1 (32m 18s):Piece what's happening. So anyway, regardless of that, I just want to say like, don't the mumbling and the that's all for me. And this sort of smiling is so indicative of a manipulative, like person that has gotten away with so much shit. I don't care what you think of him in her. I mean, I, of course I care, but like my, my thing is always from the psychological point of view of what is coming across and what is the speaker trying to do either consciously or unconsciously. And my thing is he is trying to lull us into believing that everything's, he's saying, it's just, it's just so neither here nor there it's just so it's and I'm like, okay.1 (33m 3s):And she says, she says, dad, who, by the way, is recovering from a stroke, said, why won't this guy just shut the fuck up? What is he saying? And I said, exactly, exactly. Well, okay, well,2 (33m 18s):But, but silver lining there Jesus' dad was reading better. He's getting out amazing.1 (33m 23s):I just shut up and I was like, exactly,2 (33m 26s):Exactly, exactly. If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound next by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

Intro: It's a bad idea not to pay your student loans, The Odd Couple, Severance, chicken nugget bowls,  Let Me Run This By You: Google is bullying Gina. What's your email archive strategy? We are all mostly old because the window of youth is shockingly short. Some of your dreams are NOT out of reach.Interview: We talk to T.J. Harris about coming to acting later in life, having a background in business, having a close-knit cohort, Title IX investigations, being the victim of racial profiling while at school, the paradox of slightly shy kids being told they were shy so often that they become even more withdrawn, Our Lady of Kibeho, Neighborhood 3: Requisition of Doom, Sean Parris, Chris Anthony.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):3 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.4 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.3 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.4 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?1 (34s):Anyway, so I had to like get him out of the house and like men are slow and I just, it's just, it's a really no win situation. So anyway. Hello. Hello Busy. I've been busy. We've all been busy.2 (51s):We have been doing the damn thing. Haven't we?1 (55s):Yeah.2 (56s):Yeah. I have spent the last, what feels like a week. Yeah. I think it's been a week simply reviewing every single dollar 20, 21, like literally and putting it in a spreadsheet, literally like can donuts, can you1 (1m 18s):Keep it because you can write off a lot2 (1m 20s):Of new machine. Yeah. That's yeah. That's, that's the point of it is to find everything that, that can be written off, but it's, you know, and I'm hunched and my back and my eyes strain, and it's just like, oh my God, Calgon, take me away.1 (1m 38s):Yeah. I mean, I think that taxes are one of those things where if you do them right, and legally it's a lot of work, right? It's like,2 (1m 47s):You want to skim and1 (1m 48s):Be shady, which I don't recommend, because guess what? The IRS is only job is to get your money. Like, that's their only job. They don't have any other purpose on the planet. So like, if you think that's not their job, you're wrong. But anyway, so if you do it right, like you are, it's a lot of freaking work and it also is painstaking.2 (2m 12s):And I, and, and it's painstaking. And I think, you know, to, to, to find a silver lining in it, like, I'm so glad I don't have a full-time job because this is the kind of thing that literally, I don't know how people, when it's, when everybody works, how they do it it's1 (2m 35s):Well, you can't. I mean, I think it's, that's why people end up in trouble. Like, that's why people end up trying to skin his scam or not doing them and being like, you know what, I'm going to pass on all this. I'm just going to hope for them. And like, that's what I did with my student loans, because I didn't want to, and that's not even as hard as taxes, but I just like, couldn't cope with the ins and outs of doing the work to defer or like make deals, or like get my payments lower. And thus, I had a sheriff show up at my apartment. Like that is where you're headed. You don't know that story. Oh, all right. So I thought, oh, it'd be really cool to not pay my student loans.1 (3m 15s):I mean, I didn't really have the money, but I also didn't realize that my student loans were private student loans. Oh boy. So when they're private, you're in big trouble, because guess what? It's a bank that wants their money. It's not the government who has a million other things to do. Right. So the bank is like, no, we want our money. And I did that. Know that the bank hires the Sheriff's department to serve papers when you are being sued for your private loans. So one day I am N in Rogers park at my thinking, you know, nothing of it. Like I, I owed 50 grand and I to like four different banks. Right. It's always, and they sell them to other people and it's a big scam.1 (3m 56s):Right. Okay. Fine. But I'm like going about my business thinking, but feeling bad, but like, feeling like, ah, fuck it. Like, who cares? Well, they care. Wait,2 (4m 7s):How long were you not paying them1 (4m 9s):For a couple of years? Maybe I just said, forget it in 15, 20, 15. I said, no more. And then in 27, 20 17, I'm literally, I kept getting calls. They started calling miles and I was just the guy just pay no attention. Miles, like pay no attention. And of course he's like so trusting. He was like, okay, I'll pay no attention. I'll compartmentalize. And okay. So one day there's a, our buzzer goes off and I'm like, hello. Cause no one ever. He's like, this is the Sheriff's department. Are you Jennifer Bosworth? And I was like, and then I realized, I really quickly, your mind goes, oh, what have I done wrong?1 (4m 50s):Right. And it focuses it on the thing. Cause you know what you've done right. Or what I've done wrong. And I'm like, oh, my here is the PA the Piper or the pied Piper or whoever is coming to collect chickens, home to roost all the things. And I was like, and I just said, I have a lawyer go away. And he goes, no, we just, we just want to give you these papers. Like we have to give you these papers. I'm like, no, I have a lawyer go away. Which is the wrong thing to do.2 (5m 19s):What also, what was your logic there? I have a lawyer. Okay.1 (5m 23s):There was no logic. I would say it was the opposite of logic is what's going on. So I see that they go away because, and so they're paid by the bank. So they just hire the Sheriff's department to serve people. I did not know that it's like, they, they you're there for hire basically the Sheriff's department. So they go and they serve people and they could not serve me. But then what it did was it was really actually a great kick in the pants because I was like, oh, I have a court date now. So no. So what I did was I said, okay, let me find it. So then I was like, I need a lawyer. So, and then on my 43rd birthday or 42nd, 42nd birthday.1 (6m 10s):Yeah. 42nd birthday. I went to the lawyer. I found this lawyer fucking brilliant. I can't remember her name right now. She was like legally blonde. She had these long pink nails and her only job was to get people off student loans and, and either file bankruptcy or figure out a way to talk. The loan people doubt. She was a bad-ass and I went there and I was like crying. And I was like, look. And she was like, oh, $50,000. That's nothing. And I was like, oh, she's like, I got people that I was, you know, 600,000 in medical school loans,2 (6m 43s):Medical school, that's1 (6m 45s):All. But also she goes, yeah, the private loans they get ya, you know? So, so she, she, okay. So she said, I said, well, what do I do? I can't remember her name. She was so awesome. And I, and she's like, well, do you have the money? I'm like, well, look, I have this inheritance. She's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Then we can't declare bankruptcy because they'll go after your inheritance. I was like, oh, hell to the, no. So she's like, all right, well, we'll try to get him down. So she reduced $50,000 to $25,000 for a fee of $3,000 and went to court and was like, you know, so she talked them down. She's like, you're getting nothing. If you don't take this 25,000, she's like, can you get me 25,000?1 (7m 27s):I'm like, sure. So I, then it happened to be, we were selling the house around that time. Anyway, I got the money and then my life has, but my credit was literally if a here's what people don't understand. It's like, it may be stupid, but the credit matters. But if you want to live somewhere,2 (7m 46s):Right? Like if you want to be on the grid,1 (7m 49s):If you want to like have a house that is, if you ever want to apply for apartment, if you ever want to it matters. I know it shouldn't. I always tell my students like, yeah, all this shit shouldn't matter, but it does everyone. It does. I hate the fact that it does, but let's be honest about the truth here. Let's just get real. So my, my credit now, what my credit was so low, I can't remember what it was. And I was like, oh, that's not so bad. And my friend was like, that's the worst credit you're going to have? And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, I didn't understand the scale. Right? Like I was like, oh, five 40 isn't bad. Or five, some days she was like, that's like the worst. So now my credit is seven 80.1 (8m 30s):Oh no, no. I got it. All of it is seven 50 because I paid it off. And like, I don't, we don't have any debt. Thank God credit card wise. Oh, because vials is, if, if it were up to me, I probably have debt up to my eyeballs, unfortunately. But my partner is like, oh no, no, no. He's really good with that. Thank God. Oh boy. Cause I have some problems because my parents never taught me shit. You know? So no, all this to say, how did this come up?2 (8m 58s):Because we were talking about,1 (8m 60s):Sorry.2 (9m 1s):Okay. But so many things about your story. First of all, it was $50,000. Just the amount you owed from the time that you stopped paying, or are you saying it has a total of $50,000?1 (9m 15s):No, I had more than that. So I had had 80 and I had paid 30 of it off because I went to school like in oh eight. I graduated. So it's not like a long time. So I had 50, 80,000 total. I had paid 30 somehow some way and all those years around there. And then I had 50 left. Yeah. And I was used to pay the 50, but then I2 (9m 38s):Just, just asking, but like, could anybody go to a lawyer and say, reduce my,1 (9m 45s):Yeah. That's their whole, because here's what the, yes, this is what they don't tell you is that2 (9m 50s):I feel like such an asshole. Right?1 (9m 54s):Doris is literally overdosing on melatonin. Hold on. Okay.2 (9m 58s):Oh my God. I can't believe I could have. I just pay. All of my students will never1 (10m 6s):Happen again. Come2 (10m 7s):Here, Come here. I just can't believe I've paid every penny of my student loans. What is wrong with me? I'm just the worst partner ever. Sorry. No, you're not. You're not the worst person. She meets me. And I eat1 (10m 31s):That2 (10m 32s):Thing away from her and I gave her all kinds of,1 (10m 35s):Okay. So yeah. You don't feel like an asshole because here's the thing. They never tell you this, that you can everything's negotiable in this country. Okay. Every single thing is negotiable. Everything's a business deal. Everything can be reduced. Why? Because there's no set rate for anything that's capitalism. So you, you, you can charge whatever you want. And then it's negotiable. So what she told me was these companies, these banks, they're banks, they're not companies. I mean, they're banks. These banks know that they will get nothing. If someone declares bankruptcy. Okay. So they don't know that I had this inheritance, this, you know, but they, they know that most people say F you I'm part of capitalism is bankruptcy.1 (11m 22s):I'm declaring bankruptcy. You get $0. So they want anything. They'll take pennies on the goddamn dollar. So she's like, oh no. And it's a fine line. And that's why you need a lawyer to go to court and say, my client has nothing. So if you want anything, she'd lucked into 25 grand. She can, she can scrape by twenty-five grand. You want that? Or you want Jack shit. And then they'll say, give me the 25 grand.2 (11m 45s):Right? Right. Well, I, I, it doesn't matter. Now I had done this, you know, 10 years ago. I mean, because the thing is, of course, like you take, you borrow $50,000 and you pay 300, basically.1 (11m 58s):It's ridiculous. Especially with private loans. Ridiculous.2 (12m 3s):That's what, and that's what I had. I had a lot of problems, but the other thing that's so striking about your stories, the moment when you start, when you said you had this moment in 2015, where you said, fuck it. I just, that gave me such a thrill. Like if you would, just because the reason I couldn't do that is I would think about it every second of the day.1 (12m 25s):I would have. Yeah. Because my mom was my co-signer, but that lady was dead. So I was like, what are they going to do? Cause she was really, I was more afraid of my mother than the federal and then the, then the bank and the government. So the private loans and the government. So I, if she was alive, you bet your ass. I would have been paying those motherfuckers off2 (12m 45s):Of my loans for social work school had to have a co-signer of my father-in-law. And for some reason that I never did get to the bottom of Wells Fargo. If I was one day late for a payment, they wouldn't even call me or contact me in any way. They just immediately, it was all on him. Yes. And he would of course call me the second that they called him. And it was so embarrassing every time I'd be like, I mean, it happened like, I want to say it happened five or six1 (13m 19s):Times. That is so easy to do.2 (13m 22s):It's silly. But1 (13m 24s):It's2 (13m 24s):Also like, this is the mafia. Like you're you're one day late in your payment and you don't say, Hey, could you pay me? You just go, do you just threaten somebody to break?1 (13m 33s):Yeah, it's a psychological tactic. It's like some real Scientology bullshit.2 (13m 38s):It was horrible. Horrible, horrible. So if you have a few, can't pay your student loans. If you're listening to this and you cannot pay your student loans, call a lawyer,1 (13m 52s):Let me run this by you.2 (13m 58s):And then I'm also doing another, another way in which I'm an obsessive rural follower is that Google sent me a message saying, I have exceeded my storage limit by 380%. And if that, if I listen, anybody could, anybody can bully me. I am so easily bullied. It said, if you don't, if you don't pay more for storage or get rid of some of what you have, you will no longer be able to send or receive emails. So I spent five hours yesterday going through1 (14m 34s):A bad idea in some it's2 (14m 36s):Not about idea. Well, I've got it down. Sorry. I was, I was out, I was using 385%. I'm down to 340% after deleting probably 10,000 emails1 (14m 49s):With like, is it true? What they're saying?2 (14m 52s):I don't know. All I know is that when I log onto my email and I see a big red line across the top,1 (14m 60s):I can't,2 (15m 1s):I can't take it. I can't take the red line, but upside, it has been a walk down memory lane, you know, because things, I mean, people I'm having email exchanges with, it seems sort of intimate. And I'm like, I have no idea who that person is. Or like reading email. I looked for the oldest email I have from you, which on this, on this, my Gmail is from 2008. And just, you know, whatever, like you were talking about your job. And I was talking about my job and I found the, the engagement announcement. Yeah.1 (15m 40s):That's2 (15m 40s):Kind of fun too. And, and also I realized I had thousands of emails that I just simply don't need. Like I keep every email. Do you keep all of your emails?1 (15m 51s):No. So I I'm so weird. I never have more than zero unread in my inbox.2 (15m 59s):Well, wait, did I just mean you archives of metal?1 (16m 3s):No, I just delete them. Not all the good one. No, no, no, no. I, I don't, I I'm terrible that I don't know how to do shit, so I don't put them in folders or anything like that or archive.2 (16m 18s):And then you have1 (16m 19s):Zero2 (16m 20s):Emails.1 (16m 21s):Yeah. It's because I have no life maybe. And I just,2 (16m 25s):The chairman for you have a full life and now you don't have any of your emails back from you. Don't1 (16m 30s):You know, I have that.2 (16m 32s):Well, how do you have them?1 (16m 34s):I erased the ones as they come in that are know that I don't know longer that have attachments and no longer need.2 (16m 41s):Okay.1 (16m 42s):So I manage my box. So here's the thing I will run out of storage. It's just that I don't think I get a lot of emails. I don't, I actually don't like, I'm always saying, I want more emails. I'm like the only person that wants them. I'm so like, I love paperwork and I love emails. And so I don't know. I'm always like no one ever emails me. It's so weird. But anyway, the pain is,2 (17m 5s):It's not possible that no one ever emails. You Did. The thing that I did, which is I accidentally deleted all my emails from1 (17m 15s):No, I remember that. That was hilarious. And now,2 (17m 19s):For example,1 (17m 20s):So right now I have zero emails, unread, unread,2 (17m 26s):Unread, you keep everything in your inbox.1 (17m 29s):Yeah. You know me, my desktop. How2 (17m 33s):Many emails are in your inbox? Just1 (17m 38s):30,000. I mean read 30,035.2 (17m 44s):Okay. Well what do you do when you have to find?1 (17m 50s):Well, that's why I can't never find my, Why you don't say why it happened. You have ISO every time you send me, it's bad. But miles miles was like, cause now miles is really into email because of his job for the last six months, his new job. And he's like, but you have no full zero four.2 (18m 8s):No, but zero folders. My shoulder, my shoulders are getting so tough.1 (18m 16s):So, Okay. So anyway, it beans, like I'm not saying I have a good system. Like I don't have a good system. I have no system. But what it is is I'm just proud. I don't have like, I'm really judgy about people that have a lot of unread emails. So like literally if I walk by and coworking and I see someone's inbox has like 12,000 unread, I go, oh God, I go, nothing, nothing, nothing little do they know? I have not one fucking folders. So I can't pay,2 (18m 47s):I need to start in a production of the odd couple because I am.1 (18m 54s):I know I look at your, I don't even know how you make. I look at our joint email. I don't know what these folders mean. I don't know what there's like sub folders to me. I'm like,2 (19m 6s):Now that you're, now that we're discussing this, I'm realizing another fake fakery folders actually don't have any meaning because actually, well, because actually, if you wanted to find an email,1 (19m 22s):This is like from2 (19m 23s):Right. If you want to find an email from target, you can just Google. I mean, you can just search.1 (19m 29s):Yes. But the problem is if you have 4,000, let me run this by you emails. So that is my, so I need you to set it up. I thought I had set it up for, for my, let me run this links. No. So what I did was set up a ma a new G Gmail account2 (19m 47s):And it's not1 (19m 48s):Good. It's not fair. So the bottom line is, I don't think my system is great, but what I think is I like I Le well, I'm weird in that. I like having no unread emails, but at the same time, I don't feel like people are emailing me enough.2 (20m 3s):We did a freaky Friday. You and me and you were thrust into my life. And I was thrusted. I think that I would immediately feel relieved because I feel like you don't necessarily carry around you. I mean, you have a lot of stuff that you have to carry around, but you don't necessarily carry around this need to do everything. Perfect.1 (20m 27s):Oh, no. And I think that comes, I swear to God. A lot of it is with kids, because if you fuck up with yourself, okay, so you're a fuck up. But if you are a parent of three children and you don't, you fuck up, you end up like a lot of people we know, which is, and the kids ended up like, like we, us and people, we know we don't like, so that is, I feel like if I was dropped in. So, so I feel like if I was dropped into your life, I would like it. Cause you have like all this space Around and everything.2 (21m 0s):And my kids would love it because you're fun. And that's, that's like, that's like the dynamic, that's the thing in our house. It's like, mom's no fun. Mom is doing, she's got the rules. She's1 (21m 12s):No, no, I'd be like, all right, let's do, let's eat fried food. This would be my thing. I'd be like, Eat fried food. And I can't eat that anymore. But if I dropped into your life, I could write, I could eat that. And I would say, okay, this is what I used to eat before my hurt. Like what completely I would have. I was thinking about the other day, something called a chicken nugget bowls. Okay. Which was, I would a2 (21m 37s):Bowl of chicken nuggets1 (21m 39s):Mixed with, okay. So I'd go to trader Joe's and get the chicken nuggets and then bake those. And then their, their potatoes, fries, fries, and th and literally dump a bunch of that in a bowl, put some ketchup and mix it all up and just have like a chicken nugget fry. But that's not good for you, by the way.2 (22m 2s):Why was it appealing to put it in a bowl? Instead of1 (22m 5s):I liked the combo of the two together and like the ketchup was the glue that held it all together. And I loved that, but the problem was I gained a lot of weight and then my heart went down. You can't really2 (22m 18s):Mean the thing1 (22m 20s):About adulthood, the shit you really like can not be maintained if you want to live.2 (22m 25s):I mean, it's such a bummer. I recently realized that youth really only lasts for 25 years. So, so, so everybody is mostly old, right? Like everybody's friends, the majority of their life that didn't occur to me for some reason, I think because we're so youth obsessed in this culture, I had this way of fit, not logically, but like I had this way of thinking about it. Like it's this long epoch of life, but really1 (22m 59s):You're old for a very long time. And then you die.2 (23m 2s):And then you're also very young for a period of time. So the, the period of time where you're autonomous and1 (23m 14s):We also missed it.2 (23m 16s):And then we were just walking around, feeling horrible about ourselves.1 (23m 19s):That is such a waste. Right? The other thing I was going to tell you, I have a really good story to tell you about someone we know that I can share, because it's a good story. This is a story about why it's good. That life can be good. Okay. I'm teaching at DePaul, our Alma mater, as you know, if you listen to the show, okay. I teach fourth year BFA actors on zoom, which I wasn't supposed to, but I got special and that's a whole nother Oprah and itself. But so I have students and one of my things is we write pitch letters. I help them. Cause that's my jam. I love doing that. Even if it's a pitch letter for them, for a tour to a rep, to a producer, whatever we write these like bio pitch letters.1 (24m 3s):Okay, fine. So I had this student, I still have the student and he's a wonderful youngster. And he's like talking his dream. This is so crazy. His dream is to be in the Mar somehow in the Marvel universe. Okay. Like he wants his dream is to be in a movie, a Marvel movie. But of course he wants a foot in the door, anything. And he goes, and I said, okay, well, like why we're developing his pitch letter with the class. Everyone takes turns, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I would really like the career of this guy that I, that I've heard about named Sean Gunn. I'm like, wait,2 (24m 37s):Oh my God.1 (24m 39s):He said, he said, I know he went to the theater school. And like, I know, and I'm thinking to myself, cause you know, I obviously we've interviewed Sean gone listened to his interview and obviously, and we've done it twice, right? No, didn't we do two, two parts. I wasn't that the second one. But yeah. And obviously we know him and obviously he's not like my best friend, but I, and I was like thinking to myself and he's like, I just would really love to pitch him. And I was like, oh my God. So we created a dope letter to Sean Gunn. And I wrote to Sean and said, Hey, my students are doing this thing. He would love to jump on a zoom and they're going to have a zoom. So he's going to meet his hero.2 (25m 20s):That's I1 (25m 21s):Know I couldn't have been happier. I was like, I actually am doing something that makes a difference. So I'm facilitating the zoom between Alex and Sean and Sean was gracious enough to do it. And, and it turns out that he's filming. I think in Atlanta, you know, probably some marble thing and, and he gets off this week. And so it's, he has some time and Alex is like lipping out. Out's 21, right. This kid, he's like a great kid. He did stop motion classes. Like he, like, he knows how to do that as an actor, like the guy is in his letter, I really helped him with his letter. And, and Sean said, this, your student's letter is so sweet. Like I love it. So anyway, the point is, I was like, oh my gosh, this is, this is also to say that another reason the podcast is good.1 (26m 8s):Right. Because you just don't know how you're going to like pass it along. And FYI in two months, my students are going to be our colleagues. Right. Cause they're graduating. So you don't know, like, I don't know what they'll need for me or what I need from them.2 (26m 22s):I always say, you're the person who identified from the very beginning that this podcast was going to be healing to people. And not only are you doing it in this way, but you're also doing it in a way that you're through your work as a teacher correcting the thing that almost everybody who comes on says, I, yeah, I got all this education. But then when I graduated and now I do anything, like you're giving them at least,1 (26m 47s):And I do one-on-ones with them. And because I'm like, look, yes, exactly what happens to us and happened to everyone that we've talked to almost missed, except for like three people. And we've talked to a lot of people happened to is happening again, because I think there's obviously a bigger question of the reckoning of how do we change at a theater stage, acting conservatory to become more friendly towards launching these students in a way where they actually can get work and live and not worry and not worry as much that everything is for not. And what am I doing?1 (27m 26s):And I didn't get picked or chosen and how to write a pitch letter. Like FYI, all the people that I'm helping write pitch letters, they're all getting their meetings with people. It just, anyway, you were saying like, you can access.2 (27m 41s):Yeah. People it's, I'm not suggesting that anybody you want to talk to, you can just hit them up and talk to them. But I am just sort of speaking to this barrier that I have always had myself this mental barrier of like, well, I could never talk to so-and-so it's this thing about like, I could never follow my dream. You know, I recently realized that I actually was afraid to say inside of my own head, what a dream, what my dream was like. Right. Like I, I just made 99% of life completely out of reach for me. And then just try and then just try to figure out what this 1% that I could.1 (28m 24s):Yeah. I mean, that's what trauma does to you. That's what it does. It says you are, you can't even, it's not safe to even dream in your own fantasy. So most what I'm finding is as the more I talk to people in the more I sort of do research for like my own writing on trauma, on like serial killers, really. But like that the trauma is so crystallized at a young age, right. That there, it cuts off all access to hope. That's the effect of trauma. There is no hope. So you operate in this one, teeny little place of, I'm not going to hope, but I'm still going to live. Cause I'm not going to die. So there's, it's like, it's like, yeah, yeah.1 (29m 6s):There's no hope trauma cuts off the access to pipeline, to hope and to not just joy, but hope.2 (29m 13s):Yeah. And, and if it's true, like we were saying that youth is this short window, the good on the good side is there is hope in your older years that you can evolve to be the person that1 (29m 28s):You really can't. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of, it's not easy. And it's like really bizarre how you get there. But if you keep putting in the work and get support, it is possible. Even at 40, like that's the other thing that I am so clear on because I launched this consulting business so crazy. Like I thought I was going to get a nine to five and like, so my consulting business has taken off. Right. Because you've just fantastic. And people are like, how are you having so many clients? This is the reason I have no imposter syndrome. When it comes to this particular skill, like I'm scared as shit to be an actor. I'm scared as shit to write, to be a writer.1 (30m 9s):I'm still doing it, but I'm scared in that way, a screenwriter, a television writer, that kind of thing. But if you ask me to sit down with somebody and help them to pitch themselves and to crystallize their vision of what their thing is, whatever their thing is, I don't care what it is. I have zero imposter syndrome. I know you don't have to hire me. I don't get that's, you know, but I know that I am good at that beyond a shadow of a doubt because things have all come together to show me that. So my own work emotionally, I'm working with you on this podcast and in the entertainment business and my past life and entertainment and getting a master's in counseling, psych literally has prepared me to do this thing.1 (30m 57s):And I have no like, fear that if I'm talking to somebody about it, that they're going to think I'm full of shit, because it's actually the truth of what it's undeniable, it's undeniable, you eat it. And it's because I put in the work. And also I just it's one of the side effects of being a traumatized and neglected child is, is, and then doing the work to work through that is noticing that in other people and where their trauma points are. So now, like I'm literally about to start pitching my services to the district attorney's office for, for trials, for people to do closing lawyers that are scared to do closing arguments in a theatrical way.1 (31m 42s):Isn't that crazy? I was watching the John Wayne Gacy trial and I was like, oh, this guy has an amazing closing in his, his closing argument. The da was so brilliant. And it's known as like, he did this beautiful theatrical, but also tasteful thing. Cause sometimes it can be like a carnival, but like, and so I was like, oh, how do I help people do that? Cause that's, you know, and that's always tricky in the legal system, but I've also worked in the legal system. So I know a little bit, so anyway, that's my new, I'm like, yeah, these, some of these lawyers2 (32m 14s):How I1 (32m 15s):Have like stage fright, so litigators even, and they need help. So anyway, we shall see where that goes, but I don't have, I don't have, I'm not afraid that doesn't, I don't have imposter syndrome about that.2 (32m 28s):Yeah. Oh, thank God. We should all have at least one thing that we don't feel like we're an imposter about1 (32m 34s):One thing. I mean, for God's sake7 (32m 43s):Today on the podcast, we are talking to TJ Harris, TJ terrorists introduced us to the idea of the artist preneur and his background in business is what helped him get to that exciting place. So please enjoy our conversation with TJ Harris.2 (33m 2s):Okay. All right. All right. Congratulations. TJ Harris, you survived1 (33m 9s):And you did it with some very like your energy just from the emails and from your life is like so positive, ridiculously positive, which I adore and which I think we need. And also you call yourself and you are an extra preneur,8 (33m 29s):Brilliant1 (33m 30s):Artists, preneur artists are brilliant. Brilliant, brilliant mixing of that. Like I love that. Did you come up with that or?8 (33m 39s):Yeah, well I think so. I probably stole it from somebody else, you know, as all artists do. Yeah. But I have, I have, I started in business before acting, so I came to lading to acting and filmmaking later in life. I'm 34 right now. And this I've been on this journey for about six years. So I, I kind of started out like in finance, I studied, I got a general studies degree in undergrad. I went to ball, state university in Indiana and I was a business administration major at first and I hated it.8 (34m 19s):Absolutely hated it, but I knew it was during the time, like right before the recession hit where it was like, just get a degree to get a job. So I was like, okay, I'll get a business degree. But I ended up switching over to general studies with a concentration in finance and sociology. And during that time, I, I, I've always felt like I've been kind of in this, this middle ground of not really knowing which route I wanted to go, because I didn't want to become a doctor and I didn't want to become a lawyer and I didn't want to go down this. Like somebody already created my path for me. So I just kind of started experimenting with things, graduated with my degree.8 (35m 2s):I got a job with a company that I'm currently still with. I worked part-time for him. Yeah. So I I'm, I'm a consultant. Part-time1 (35m 12s):Oh, you know, what's so funny. That is so rare that people keep their job after they graduate from a, from a fine arts, like from a conservatory that they, as a master's student. That is fantastic. And why did you keep it? Like, could you love that work? What makes you want to keep it?8 (35m 30s):No. So, I mean, they know, I don't really love it. So I actually quit. I quit prior to coming to going to TGS for grad school. So the plan was just to, just to be done with it because I really want to transition out of this industry, but it keeps pulling me back somehow. So I quit. And then I had an exit interview and someone that when I first started with the team, the PR one of my colleagues ended up being the manager of the team when I was leaving. So did an exit interview and I was like, Hey, if you all, like, I'll come back and help out while I'm in school, if you all need my help.8 (36m 10s):So six months later, they brought me back as a contractor. So I was working in like, ha basically all my bills were paid for through working this job. Part-time while being at TTS1 (36m 24s):Here, here's the thing. This is brilliant for a lot of reasons. But one of is which, you know, I teach BFA fours at the theater school and, and now they have a class and I don't know, you may have had something to do with it. I don't know that that's called actors as, as entrepreneurs. There's like a, but, but it reminds me of like, they're trying to, but you already did that on your own. So like you, I never, it is so brilliant that you were able to maintain that job so that you might guess is you were able to live, like you had some Dota live on. Right.8 (37m 1s):I didn't take out any additional student loans or anything like that. I did just the bare minimum. And I was living with a friend from undergrad. So my rent was like, mama shit. He charged me charged charge, like 600 or $700 to be in a really nice place. I didn't have to pay your abilities. And I was living with a friend that I knew, so, and it was, it was, so the reason I quit is because I asked to go remote from my previous manager, but they didn't really work that out for me. So I quit. And I was like, you know what? I don't, I don't need it. So they brought me back and it was like, it was a part-time remote. And I already knew that job. And I was, I was basically locked site.8 (37m 43s):So like in the middle of rehearsal on breaks, I was doing work. It's all project based work. I was doing work in between rehearsals in between classes. I would check in and check my emails and just kind of set my own hours. And so when, like when the pandemic hit, I was already in the work from home mindset.2 (38m 2s):I have to stop you for one second. Cause there's so many things that you're saying I want to respond to. One is it's always a good sign, a good omen when just organically, the conversation turns to exactly what she and I were talking about before we started talking to you, we were talking about student loans and what a albatross they are for so many people so that you did yourself, such a favor by not having to go down that path. But also what I, what we always find in the MFA's is they really already know how to hustle, right? Because they've been in the workforce, hustling is like the thing you have to be as an actor.2 (38m 42s):And I feel like that isn't writ large enough when you're in a training program. Like, listen, you can learn about intention till the cows come home. But what you really have to be able to do is figure out how to do a lot of things all the time. Right?1 (39m 0s):Go ahead, go ahead.8 (39m 1s):Oh, I was going to say, yeah, I was, I was already hustling. I was working the full-time job and then immediately go into rehearsal for four hours and then rehearsing on my own after rehearsal and then going back to a job the next day.1 (39m 13s):Well, so this leads me to a question that maybe you can answer, which is okay. So the MFA, what I'm noticing, cause I also am doing a little workshop with some of the MFA actors this year and a writing workshop because I'm really interested in writing8 (39m 28s):Ones or twos or threes. It's all weird. Now1 (39m 32s):I know it's all weird. No, these are twos. And, and anyway, what I'm learning is that maybe, and you can see what you think about this. Maybe we need to look at restructuring acting conservatories to be more like MFA programs versus BFAs. Because like yourself, we have found that the MFA actors who graduate seem way more prepared to live the life of an, of a, of an artist preneur versus the BFAs who are like, I don't know, they seem like daring, like losing it.1 (40m 12s):Right. So what is your thought on that MFA versus BFA for you?8 (40m 17s):So it's a catch 22 because obviously like I wanted my MFA experience and the BFS, you know, we worked together, we rehearsed together and we did shows together and we were offered a lot of the same classes, but also you want that distinction of like, I'm paying more to get this specialized area. And I don't know if when I was 18 or 22, if I would have been in that mindset, like, I don't know what I want it then. So I think it might've been, I think it's a lot to process studying, acting and the business of acting and to make it all make sense, unless you already have an area that you're interested in and you can like apply while you're in, in school from the business side.2 (41m 16s):Did, did your career in business set that intention for you to be an artist preneur from before you ever started the program before you were restarted your MFA?8 (41m 28s):For sure. Yeah. I, so I can, I consider getting my MBA and I was looking at like Northwestern or, and just to preface, I had really had no interesting getting my masters. DePaul was the only school that I applied for because I, I was considering moving to Chicago or LA and I just wanted the training because I didn't study theater and, and undergrad. So I just wanted the training and I was like, you know what? I grew up in I'm from Northwest Indiana. I'm from Gary. And I knew, I knew of DePaul and I really, I searched top 25 MFA programs.8 (42m 10s):And I was like, oh, this isn't in Chicago. And then I looked at like UC San Diego, because that would get me close to LA. So I applied to DePaul and going into it. I told myself that I was never going to get my masters unless it was for something that I absolutely loved, like absolutely without a doubt. So it was acting. And I knew that I knew that I didn't want to get out of school and be poor. Cause like I don't, I don't like the concept of being a struggling poor artists.2 (42m 45s):Well, thank you. Thank you for saying that, that I really appreciate that because that persists as a myth that we all need to be living in a Garret somewhere. But how did you audition when you never studied that? Or did you ever act?8 (43m 2s):I was, I was acting, I was doing like community theater and I had an agent. I was doing improv. I was doing commercials and auditioning for TV and film and doing a lot of auditioning for theater and taking like workshops and classes. I had a vocal coach, so I was training, but it was like a self study type of training. And I never really had the core foundation of what acting is all at once. So I don't honestly, it's just one of those things where I like I'm, I'm very much a spiritual. And like you put out, you get whipped back what you put out into the universe. And like this life, the life that I've been kind of creating for myself is very surreal because things just like on paper, things should not happen the way that they have, you know?1 (43m 48s):Oh, tell us about that. Okay. So what, first of all, my question, my, my feeling is good. Good for you because I think you're making it, it sounds like it's exciting. Things are happening and they're coming together for you. So I guess my first question would be is what is the most exciting thing that is happening for you? Right this second,8 (44m 9s):This second wall, I just established my production company, my film production company in December. And I haven't launched like technically to the public, right until next month. Like I have an official launch day, May 15th next year, next year, next month, while next month. And the most exciting things that are happening are like, I have a small business client lined up for mark doing marketing work. I have someone that approached me for producing a web series that we're kind of developing the scripts. And then last night, DePaul school of cinematic arts student approached me to produce their MFA thesis, which is going to be a sag, a sag agreement.8 (44m 55s):So we just locked that in and that'll be, and I, I can't talk about it too much right now, but that's, we're shooting that in August.2 (45m 4s):Congratulations.8 (45m 5s):So even all of those things are just kind of happening and I haven't even really hit the ground. Yeah.2 (45m 11s):Oh my God. You're going to skyrocket. So what ways, if any, did the theater school experience challenge what you already knew about acting from having been a professional actor before the program?8 (45m 28s):In a lot of ways, it actually made me, it kind of hurt me a lot because I was very naive going into, and I was a lot more free and a bigger risk taker. And then when I got into TTS, you know, you start peeling back all of those layers about yourself and you're getting constant criticism and people were telling you to experiment, but also it's, you can't really experiment because you're getting graded and you're supposed to be taking risks and shows, but you're also getting a rehearsal and performance grades. So they call it caused a lot of like internal conflict. Where,1 (46m 4s):Why does that happen? Is that just the nature of school? I'm really curious as to why. So we have a beginner's mindset, right. Which is a beautiful thing. A lot of us, when we go in some of us, some of, you know, some of your classmates could, like some of ours probably would have been acting since they were like one month old, but for most of us, we didn't know what the hell was going. I didn't anyway. It really was going on. Yeah. So what is it when you say it's cut? Cause you said it was kind of bad, which I totally can relate to the idea of then going from being more free, to being more self-conscious and maybe like precious more about the work, but like what happened? What is the process that makes that happen? TJ, like, I don't get it.8 (46m 42s):I think, I think a lot of it is self-induced of like being in the competitive environment and I camp, I come from a sports background and wanting to just like love competition in a healthy manner. So I think a lot of it is that. And then I think a lot of it is just taking when you're, when you're told that there's so many different things that you need to change about yourself to kind of start fresh aching. Did it eat away at you? And like, and in the midst of like your learning, all your, like exposing yourself to all of this childhood trauma that you didn't even know exist in your body is going through all of these changes.8 (47m 29s):And you're releasing of this, these emotions that you didn't know existed. The reflection was great, but I think it was also like so much in such a little time to where before I was just kinda like, fuck it. Like, I don't have anything to lose. Like I've never acted I'm going to do this my way, regardless of what they think. And I think in grad school, I got back into a mindset of like, oh no, I actually care what they think.1 (47m 58s):Well, the other thing that is because I am a, I, I was listening to the thing you said about the sports mentality or a sports background, like, okay. Like, I was really good at basketball, unbeknownst to me in eighth grade. Okay. Like, shockingly, I was like this overweight kid, but I was really good at basketball. Okay. I didn't know I was good. I just, someone was like, Hey, try out for the team. We need people. I was like, well, I'm doing nothing else. But anyway, I turned out to be really good and I had fun because I had no expectations. I was like, okay, well they want me to play. Someone wants me. And it turns out I was really good. But then when I tried out for the high school team and it was like serious business, of course I never made the team.1 (48m 41s):And I never even went back to tryouts after day one, because I was like, oh, I'm not, this is, I'm not now it's serious business. Now this is like where, where the big boys and girls really play and it's competitive, more competitive. And it's more like, it felt more businesslike, you know, instead of fun. So maybe that has, I don't know. I could really relate to that sports analogy of like, when you're free, you're going to play better. You're going to be a better athlete. Right. Cause you can. So it's like how to maintain that freedom as an artist. If we bring it back to the theater school, like how to maintain that freedom to do what you want to do and experiment. And at the same time, take what they're giving you, but not care what they think.1 (49m 22s):It doesn't seem possible to me,8 (49m 23s):It doesn't. And I think like mid grad school. So probably second year before quarantine and everything happened. I think that was the year where I was like, okay, this is my second year. I know that. I know that I w I like, I really want to set myself up for success beyond just acting. But also I know that the stakes are high, like, or I made them high for myself. Like, oh, I gotta, I have to get an agent. And then you see all of that. You see it, all of your classmates, like they're starting to get representation early, before graduation in the middle of the pandemic. So like, it's like, oh, all of this pressure, and you don't know how the industry is going to be when you get out.8 (50m 6s):And also, like, I think I got back into the mindset of which I started in of like, okay, I feel behind already, because I started acting at the age of 28 and I didn't study. I haven't been studying since I was the age of five. Like I grew up in a performing arts family, but I was not other than just doing improv and having fun and making sketches with friends. So like, I didn't have anyone around me as a mentor in my friend group or in my family that could just kind of guide me. So I got this sense of urgency when I first started like, okay, I have to learn everything possible.8 (50m 47s):So I didn't care then. But like, when I was in grad school, I just started caring more about what my life could be and what it wouldn't be if I didn't get what I wanted. And I think, I just1 (51m 4s):Think she8 (51m 4s):Was as a lot of pressure.1 (51m 6s):So did you enjoy your time there sometimes some, like, did you, what would you say if someone came to you like were coming to you and say, like, what was your takeaway from that theater school experience in terms of high points and low points?8 (51m 22s):I, you know, I've, I, I loved it despite like the first year I will say the first year was brutal. It was brutal. My, my cohort, I love my cohort. We went through like a title nine investigation the first quarter. So it was like emotionally draining, just the, you know, being in a new environment and conservatory to start. And then you have like a sexual harassment case happening that creates like our own type of social distancing thing, where the person can't be in class, we have to go through, like, we're getting Student, this was a cohort member. Who's no longer with the program.8 (52m 3s):They got expelled, but, okay. So yeah, we're going through that. And we're navigating like intimacy and like how to get around all of this in our first quarter at DePaul. So a lot happened and it drew us together a lot.2 (52m 19s):I'll say my God. I mean, that door normally happens anyway, just because of the intimacy of being in voice and speech classes, but having that to go through, I mean, that, that probably in the end, sorry for whoever got hurt in that experience, but probably in the end boded. Well, for everybody just being able to, to judge8 (52m 37s):It did it did. So yeah, that first year was rough. I also went through, like, I went through a racial profiling scenario in the theater school that ended up leaking out to media when the George Floyd things happened in 2020, like that It's a whole thing. I was there's you, where were you all in the, you, weren't in the new building. So1 (53m 5s):We're old, we're old as hell. We've we, we graduated in 97 and 98. So no,8 (53m 12s):So, so I, I was like napping before rehearsal on the second floor, which is next to like the marketing section. And there's like a couch kind of blocked off, but you know, everyone sleeps in theater school cause you spend like 98% of your time there. And there was a, there was an Encore, a duty officer patrolling. And I think he was new because he had never, I never seen him before anyway. So he like woke me up and then started questioning me and like asking why I was there and who I was and asking for my ID. And I'm like, no, I go to school here.8 (53m 52s):And then I was like, why, why did you, why did you wake me up? And then he told me that because someone saw on camera and called to check that there was someone in the building that shouldn't be there. Okay. So we went through this whole process of like investigating and there's no cameras in the theater school. So he lied about why he stopped me. It was, it was, you know, I mean older, like I'm not at a typical theater type look anyway, the case got thrown out because they couldn't like, they couldn't find enough evidence to prove that he was in the wrong, even though he did wrong.8 (54m 34s):So they kind of went by that. So that's, this is all first year, right? So the case got,2 (54m 38s):Oh my God, you've graduated.8 (54m 42s):Yeah. So the case got closed and then we just kinda let it go. But after that first year, I was like, you know what? This was a more emotional turmoil. And I refuse to have the final two years go this way. So that's when I really started focusing on, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to get through school and like get every ounce of it out that I can. And that, and that's kind of like this that's when I kind of started developing like truly developing my production company. It had been in the works for awhile, but that's when I really got serious about it. And then the pandemic hit and like I had a lot of extra free, free time and you know,2 (55m 23s):Oh my God, I, I don't think there, there could have been any more calamity that you were facing at this time and you and you, so you truly survive school it on such a deeper level than I think I could, I can attest to, I want to go back to something you were saying earlier, when you were talking about picking careers, you were saying, I didn't want to be a doctor and I didn't want to be a lawyer. And so my assumption was that that's what your parents are. And then you said it's a performing arts family. So tell us more about your performing arts family.8 (55m 58s):Yeah. So my mom, she trained in classical singing and she's not a professional singer. My sister was in a performing arts high school and she's 10 years older than I am. So I grew up exposed to like, I grew up exposed to her in a girl group and around artists and around theater. Like my mom was kind of a, she's a public speaker and a politician her own way because I lived in Arkansas for about five years during my childhood. And it was a small town and everyone knew her and she, she ran this, this preschool, but she also did a lot of things in the community where she would have like women's support groups and she would go do like these leadership workshops.8 (56m 46s):And she's, I also grew up in a Baptist church and in the black church. So I, I grew up seeing performances a lot in a lot of theatrical performances and seeing my mom speak and she's so like articulate and powerful and I always admired her like, wow, she can get up in front of all these people and speak and like enjoy it. And I could not because I was super shy, like super shy. And I think it's because people told me that I was shy. So I had no interest in performing. Cause I was just terrified of it. And1 (57m 24s):I have to pause there for a psychological moment. Isn't that interesting. I did not realize that about shy kids. That a lot of times they're told, oh, this is the shy one. Just like, oh, this is the, you know, whatever one. And then it becomes a self-fulfilling thing. Like this is my, this TJ, he he's the shy kid. And maybe he wouldn't have been so shy if it hadn't been reinforced and reinforced. That's so interesting. It's just like what we tell ourselves like, oh, I can't do that. I can't play basketball at camp, but I'm this one, my sisters, that one, that's so interesting to me. Cause shy you, I mean just shows how people change and w how we aren't really what people say we are.1 (58m 5s):So anyway,8 (58m 6s):I internalized it and what I've psychologically, I think what it was, I grew up around kids. There were way older than me and way more mature. So I'm a, five-year-old around a 15 year old. And my brother who was six years old or 11, and all of my cousins are like 11, 12. I'm not going to be able to articulate the way that they're articulating and expressing themselves. But, so I think I just kind of withdrew within myself when I wasn't able to do what they were doing, which ties back into me, never acting is because I never thought it was a possibility because I saw them being able to do these things, but I didn't feel like I could express myself that way. So I just did sports.2 (58m 51s):Okay. Well, and actually that's kind of a pretty good bridge. Really. If you feel like if you were any bit in your shell, sports does help people come sort of come into who they are a little bit, but what I wanted to ask you was, did you, when did you, when did you figure out that you are not shy and when did you decide that this could be something that you would do?8 (59m 19s):I think in my probably, you know, I never, I've always known that I, I wasn't shy. It just depended on who I was around. You know, what, what group I was around. Because if you, like, if you're around my childhood friends and people, I went to high school with, they'll be like, he is not fucking shy. Like what, he's the worst, actually, he's the worst. Once you get them going? I think it has a lot to do with code switching and being in environments. I was very observant as a kid, you know, because I was shy and I listened a lot.8 (1h 0m 1s):So I think it was more of, I like to observe people around me before I speak. So I knew I wasn't shy, but I, I also knew that I wanted to be able to have a voice and figure out what that looked like. And that was kind of the journey of me that led me to acting is okay. I want to be able to speak and express myself and I want the tools to be able to do it. I just don't know what that looks like.2 (1h 0m 33s):Can you tell us about some of your favorite theater school experiences like performances or, or classes8 (1h 0m 41s):Favorite? Okay. Let's Griffin is a favorite of all. She, I could talk about her for days. Phyllis is a voice, was our, my voice teacher and my second year, and just her spiritual and gentle approach and having a black woman as a faculty member was huge. Those are, so those are some of my biggest highlights. So it's probably going to be more on like me and who I had around me. So just for context, I was the only black male in the MFA program when I went in.8 (1h 1m 26s):So there were two black women in my cohort. And then the class that MFA two's ahead of me, there was one black woman. And then the, is there was one black woman. So I was the only, like, not only was I, the, I was the only black male in the MFA program in my thirties, going into an environment where like everyone out of the other younger black men were 18, 19 20. So there's like this huge gap where I didn't really, I'd never felt like I had someone that I could talk to, you know, so, but great experiences.8 (1h 2m 7s):Our lady of second year, it was majority, all black tasks, a play centered around three well Rwandan girls who saw, saw our, the Virgin mother, Mary, so apparitions of it. So that was a great to being that environment and do that. And then I did this really cool in the, the big black box in the heli. I did this, this horror comedy job, a play called neighborhood three requisition of doom. And I got to play three different characters and I love the horror genre. So it was cool to really dive into that and work with the cast.8 (1h 2m 51s):And then that final quarter of the second year, the pandemic hit. And one of our professors that we didn't know, which was great. We were terrified because we hadn't worked with him, but he's an alumni, Sean Paris. I don't know if you're aware of Sean Paris.1 (1h 3m 12s):I know Sean,8 (1h 3m 12s):Sean, Sean has become a big brother to me. He is so amazing. And that was like the point that was game-changing for me, because it was during, it was during the start of the pandemic where I had not only a black faculty member teaching, but also a black male faculty member teaching me and I, that like that was when I really felt like I was able to open up and truly start translating who I am into acting and into my art or my art1 (1h 3m 42s):So necessary. What, what did, what was Shawn teaching or was he directing?8 (1h 3m 47s):So it was all remote. He was teaching us Meisner and viewpoints, but we were translating it to on camera because everything was done. So I got to really start building my relationship with the camera, Our relationship and the environment, because there's not really on camera for, at the theater school and there needs to be more And I love TV and film is the route that I'm, I want to go mainly in my career.1 (1h 4m 18s):So what, when you say like, that really opened you up in that really? What do you think it, I guess what I'm trying to, I want to get clear about, like, what did it do for you as a performer to have that experience with Sean? Like what, what, what happened? What changed in you?8 (1h 4m 38s):I got to hear his experiences and see him work because he really, he wasn't, he was a student as well, and he, like, we got to watch him do monologues and watch him work. And I think just being in the environment where someone was like me, literally, who was like me and has experienced it, experienced the type of things that I've experienced in life. It's one of those things where like, growing up, I didn't see a lot of people that looked like me on TV or in film. So I never thought it was a possibility. And sh working with Sean in being around him really opened up what acting can look like for me.2 (1h 5m 26s):Oh, that's so beautiful. And I'm never not surprised in all of the ways that representation matters. I never thought about it mattering in the classroom, but it certainly does. I don't know if you got a chance to listen to, we interviewed Justin Ross and he talked about our lady of Cuba. And one of the things that he was talking about was that, that it sounds to me. So I'm asking you to, for clarification, it sounds to me like that production fostered a whole pivot in terms of the curriculum and, and, and how he said it to us as we warmed up differently than was sort of the, the, the usual at the theater school.2 (1h 6m 14s):And that, that production helped create a new normal for that. Is that, was that your experience?8 (1h 6m 21s):It did. And I think a lot of that has to do with our graduating class with BFA and MFA my class, my cohort was very much of like, we'll burn this institution down if we need to, like, we're, we're changing shit, like regardless. And a lot of it had to do with going through what we went through that first quarter with the title nine situation. It was like we had each other's backs and it was the same way with our lady of Cuba. Oh, if like we have each other's backs because we went through some shit in there too with like,1 (1h 6m 54s):Yeah, they, yeah, it didn't, it was like, there was a lot of bad shady shit that went down right there.8 (1h 7m 1s):A lot of shit going down. Yeah. And a lot of like unbiased prejudice and racism that was happening with the people who were working on crew, not really having an understanding of the story that we're telling and not really allowing us to tell the story and not really getting our feedback as you know, it was, it was a lot of like an all black cast, but being essentially produced by all white people was right. You know, and there was a lot of conflict during that production, but I do think,1 (1h 7m 40s):Do you feel like it changed though yeah.8 (1h 7m 43s):To change the culture of TTS? For sure. Because we start, it was, I think that production and the things that happened during it really started shifting the culture of theater in TTS before the culture started shifting in 2020s. It was kind of like the, the catalyst before that.2 (1h 8m 9s):Oh my God. Yeah. Only like 50 years too late, not too late, but 50 years late. Like w we've had a of conversations because your experience of being the only black male in, in our generation there, yeah. There was always an, any class, only one person of color, pretty much. I mean, maybe in a couple of years there were two. And certainly Phyllis was our only are ever professor of color. Is she still the only professor of, I mean, I know the new Dean is a woman,8 (1h 8m 39s):But the only 10 years1 (1h 8m 42s):Tenured and full time, even maybe, I don't know, like adjuncts. Yes. We're cause I'm adjunct. And I know in my cohort of adjuncts there are, but I think full-time like, it's still, what, what, wait, wait, what?8 (1h 8m 55s):Yep. Well, Christina, Anthony, Chris, Anthony is new. She came in our second year. So that, she's also a really great she's. She came from California and she's, she has a lot of background in activism and in the classical. So she, she is a full-time staff member, faculty member, faculty member.2 (1h 9m 18s):Do you remember your audition? And can you tell us about what your audition was like? Yeah.8 (1h 9m 22s):Yeah. So get that. So when I apply for the audition, they were like, you can do the preliminary video or you can just come to in-person and I didn't have any experience with self-tapes. And like, I was still raw. I was like, I don't want to put a monologue on video. Like I won't have a chance at all at all, if I do this, but during that time, I was already preparing for Kentucky Shakespeare auditions. So I had been working monologues and working on a lot of different things with my, my vocal coach. So I did in-person auditions. And it's very funny because I was currently in rehearsals for the show of chorus line, the musical, and then think auditions were on Wednesday, Wednesday.8 (1h 10m 17s):Yeah. Auditions were on Wednesday in Chicago. And then there was an audition for cau UC San Diego in Chicago. Like they were, you know, all of the colleges they come and I was like, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll get an audition for UC San Diego. And it happened to be the day before the DePaul auditions. So I knew that I wasn't going to go to UC San Diego just because I felt like they don't know who I am. It would be like me applying to Yale and they don't, they have no idea who I am. So I have no chance. So I used that as like a warmup for DePaul, used it for a warmup to get, just kind of get the jitters out and audition.8 (1h 10m 59s):And then as I was leaving the, I can't, we were in some hotel downtown, maybe the Hyatt or something like that, as I was leaving, they were like, Hey, we're doing auditions for Columbia and New York. If you have a headshot, a resume and want to get a slot, I'm like, oh yeah, I have these printed out. So I signed up for a slot and then I went and auditioned for Columbia. So it was like, oh, all right. I got these two auditions under my belt. I feel, I feel ready going into tomorrow. Right.1 (1h 11m 25s):Wait, can I just say how brilliant it is that you decided to use them as practice? This is the sign of someone who is ready to do their craft when they see not those opportunities as a chance to have a panic attack and die, but as a chance to use their skills and practice and get in front of people and practice, that is a true artist, entrepreneur mindset. Like that is a better mindset. Thank gosh. You had that anyway. Okay. So then do you went to Columbia? Did you do all those?8 (1h 11m 55s):I did the Columbia. I did the Columbia and you know, there were, I was in the lobby and just ki

Joel Richardson shares what God is doing in the Middle East through FAI, GCM, Antecessor, and I2. 

BLACK ROOM RADIOMarginal sounds of the underworldƎP1SØÐƐ 27.O2.2O2201:07 METAL DISCO feat. INCIRRINA - Heavy rain04:36 IAMNOONE - Labyrinth07:17 LOCUST REVIVAL - Your delusions are not mine10:00 HALLECK - Tarde demais13:43 SECRET ATTRACTION - Replica17:07 SOLO ANSAMBLIS - Trance Atlanta22:44 FATAMORGANA - El rincón del ojo28:12 ДК Посторонних (DK POSTORONNIH) - Падаль (Padal)32:03 DEATH RATE A POLITICS [D R A P] - лічності (Lichnosti)35:17 MICHAEL ZODOROZNY - 14th street Union square station 40:04 SYZYGYX - Deeper43:16 SAVAGE GROUNDS - Somewhwew sinister47:30 SUICIDE COMMANDO - Trick or treat51:31 DEFRAG - Fire and stone54:28 MADMOIZEL - Send me the light56:22 NÖ - Alfa romantikk59:00 Бумажные Тигры (BUMAZHNYYE TIGRY) - Я - Это Ты (I am - you)Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O

Lo primero de todo no soy un experto en la materia ni trabajo en el sector. Dicho esto comentaremos el reciente metaestudio con grupos de control aleatorios publicado en el American Journal of Therapeutics el pasado 17 de Junio, que afirma que la invermectina tiene un 86% de profilaxis con el Covid19 (95% intervalo de confianza) y low certanty. Además de una reducción media 62% en las muertes por Covid19 (95% intervalo de confianza pacientes= 2438; I2 = 49%) y moderate certanty. Ajustaremos la definición cientifica según GRADE, el método utlizado de "certanty". A parte de este metaestudio, comentaremos unos cuantos estudios más y el uso de este componente con resultados increíbles en países como México, India, Perú, Argentina, Zimbagwe y más. También las campañas en contra de uno de los componentes médicos más seguros que existe y que ha salvado millones de vidas sobre todo en África. No os podeis perder este episodio¡ Bibliografía: Metanalisis: https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx India: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0247163 Argentina: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04701710 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04701710 México: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(21)00100-4/pdf https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/r93g4/ Peru: https://osf.io/9egh4/

In decades of investing I've been able to water down the "big ugly" investing opportunity to defining a few key terms for yourself. If you are willing to put a good faith effort into getting yourself going in investing, I'd invite you to listen to this podcast in it's entirety because for a certain few, it may have the power to change your life. The "Profile" defines the "style" of investing you wish to deploy. Don't worry if you don't think you know anything; you don't! Knowing everything isn't a pre-requisite to success in stock market investing and you probably know more than you think and it may be just what you need to get off on the right foot; that and a little help from I2! The "Path" or "strategy" aligns certain simple rule for you to follow, grow to love and over time will not deviate from. The "Product" or "stock" will be the final of the "P's" that I'll discuss in this podcast and it'll truly help you align the proper order of operations in entering into the mindset necessary to truly succeed at stock market investing! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ryan-chartier/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/ryan-chartier/support

Vegan and omnivorous diets promote equivalent muscle mass gain, study shows University of São Paulo (Brazil), May 19, 2021 Protein intake is more important than protein source if the goal is to gain muscle strength and mass. This is the key finding of a study that compared the effects of strength training in volunteers with a vegan or omnivorous diet, both with protein content considered adequate.  In the study, which was conducted by researchers at the University of São Paulo (USP) in Brazil, 38 healthy young adults, half of whom were vegans and half omnivores, were monitored for 12 weeks. In addition to performing exercises to increase muscle strength and mass, the volunteers followed either a mixed diet with both animal and plant protein, or an entirely plant-based diet, both with the recommended protein content (1.6 gram of protein per kilogram of body weight per day). At the end of three months, there was no difference between vegans and omnivores in terms of muscle strength and mass increase.  “Like any other protein in our organism, such as the proteins in our skin and hair cells, which die and are renewed, our muscles undergo synthesis and breakdown every day. Diet [protein intake] and exercise are the main protein balance regulators, favoring synthesis over breakdown,” said Hamilton Roschel, last author of the published study. Roschel is a University of São Paulo professor affiliated with both USP’s Sports and Physical Education School (EEEE) and Medical School (FM). He also heads the Applied Physiology and Nutrition Research Group jointly run by EEEE-USP and FM-USP. Protein sources are characterized primarily on the basis of essential amino acids, especially leukin, which plays a key role in anabolic stimulation of skeletal muscles. “Animal protein has more leukin than plant protein. Leukin is an essential amino acid in the anabolic stimulus signaling process. A plant-based diet is often thought to contain less leukin and hence trigger less anabolic stimulation, potentially affecting vegans’ capacity for muscle mass gain,” Roschel said. The study is published in Sports Medicine and resulted from the master’s research of Victoria Hevia-Larraín, with support from FAPESP.  The study innovated by including a clinical analysis of the effects of protein source quality on muscle adaptation in vegans as compared with omnivores, since most research on the topic to date has focused on the acute anabolic response of muscles to protein intake under laboratory conditions and not on muscle mass as such. “Our findings show that there is no impairment of muscle mass gain for young adult vegans if they ingest the right amount of protein. In fact, the outcome of both diets was the same in this respect,” Roschel said.  However, the researchers stress that, for the purposes of experimental control, protein intake was made the same in both diets by means of protein supplements. Omnivores and vegans were given milk serum protein isolate or soy protein respectively in accordance with individual dietary needs in order to attain the targeted protein intake.  “In clinical practice, we know foods of animal origin generally have a higher protein content,” Roschel said. “Meat, milk and eggs contain more protein per gram than rice and beans, for example. In a clinical application with plant-based foods as the sole protein source, vegans would need to ingest a large amount of food to obtain the same amount of protein. In some specific cases, this could be a major challenge.” The protein source (mixed or plant-based diet) made no difference, provided each subject received an adequate amount of protein. “This result corroborates other data in the literature showing that a vegan diet can absolutely be complete if it is properly planned and executed,” Roschel said. “Previous studies suggest it can even be healthier than an omnivorous diet. For this to be the case, however, it requires appropriate nutritional counseling and education regarding people’s choices in restricting their intake to plant-based sources.”  Another point noted by Roschel is that the subjects were healthy young adults, and the results might be different for older people or subjects with health problems. “Aging entails a phenomenon known as anabolic resistance, meaning a suboptimal anabolic response to the stimuli provided by diet and exercise compared with young people. Optimal response is possible in older people only if their protein intake is higher than that of the average healthy youngster. So we should be cautious about generalizing our findings for the entire population.”   Yoga and breathing exercises aid children with ADHD to focus Ural Federal University, May 17, 2021 Yoga and breathing exercises have a positive effect on children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). After special classes, children improve their attention, decrease hyperactivity, they do not get tired longer, they can engage in complex activities longer. This is the conclusion reached by psychologists at Ural Federal University who studied the effect of exercise on functions associated with voluntary regulation and control in 16 children with ADHD aged six to seven years. The results of the study are published in the journal Biological Psychiatry. "For children with ADHD, as a rule, the part of the brain that is responsible for the regulation of brain activity - the reticular formation - is deficient," said Sergey Kiselev, head of the Laboratory of Brain and Neurocognitive Development at UrFU, head of the study. "This leads to the fact that they often experience states of inadequate hyperactivity, increased distraction and exhaustion, and their functions of regulation and control suffer a second time. We used a special breathing exercise based on the development of diaphragmatic rhythmic deep breathing - belly breathing. Such breathing helps to better supply the brain with oxygen and helps the reticular formation to better cope with its role. When the reticular formation receives enough oxygen, it begins to better regulate the child's state of activity". In addition to breathing exercises, psychologists used body-oriented techniques, in particular, exercises with polar states "tension-relaxation". The trainings took place three times a week for two to three months (depending on the program). "Exercise has an immediate effect that appears immediately, but there is also a delayed effect. We found that exercise has a positive effect on regulation and control functions in children with ADHD and one year after the end of the exercise. This happens because the child's correct breathing is automated, it becomes a kind of assistant that allows better supply of oxygen to the brain, which, in turn, has a beneficial effect on the behavior and psyche of a child with ADHD," says Sergey Kiselev. This technique was developed by the Russian neuropsychologist Anna Semenovich as part of a neuropsychological correction technique. UrFU psychologists tested how well this approach helps children with ADHD. But the study is pilot, says Kiselev. It showed that these exercises have a positive effect. However, more work needs to be done, involving more children with ADHD. This will also take into account factors such as gender, age, severity of the disease, concomitant problems in children (speech, regulatory, etc.).     Study findings suggest vitamin D deficiency may be associated with reduced arterial elasticity Guizhou Medical University (China), May 17, 2021   According to news reporting out of Guizhou, People’s Republic of China, research stated, “There is evidence that serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25-(OH) D] levels may be associated with cardiovascular disease and its risk factors. This study aimed to investigate the relationship between 25-(OH) D levels and blood pressure (BP), blood lipids, and arterial elasticity in middle-aged and elderly cadres in China.In this retrospective study, we included 401 civil servants and cadres aged >42 years who underwent medical examinations at Guiyang Municipal First People’s Hospital, China in 2018.” Our news journalists obtained a quote from the research from Guizhou Medical University, “The participants were assigned to deficiency ( 20 ng/mL), insufficiency (20-30 ng/mL), and sufficiency ( 30 ng/mL) groups according to 25-(OH) D levels in their blood. Demographics, brachial-ankle pulse wave velocity (baPWV), BP, ankle-brachial index (ABI), and blood lipids were compared among groups. The associations between 25-(OH) D and other parameters were evaluated using linear regression analysis.Median (range) 25-(OH) D levels in the deficiency (n = 162), insufficiency (n = 162), and sufficiency (n = 77) groups were 15.32 (2.93-19.88), 25.12 (20.07-29.91), and 33.91 (30.23-82.42) ng/mL, respectively. There were significant differences in systolic BP, pulse pressure, baPWV (left and right sides), ABI (left side), high-density lipoprotein-cholesterol, and triglycerides (TGs; all P< .05) among groups.” According to the news editors, the research concluded: “Multivariate linear regression revealed that TG, left baPWV, and right baPWV were significantly negatively correlated with 25-(OH) D levels (all P< .05).In this study, 25-(OH) D levels were found to be associated with TG, left baPWV, and right baPWV values. 25-(OH) D deficiency may be associated with reduced arterial elasticity.”     Icing muscle injuries may delay recovery Kobe University and Chiba Institute of Technology (Japan), May 19, 2021 A study using a mouse model of eccentric contraction (*1) has revealed that icing injured muscles delays muscle regeneration. The discovery was made by a research group including Associate Professor ARAKAWA Takamitsu and then PhD. Student KAWASHIMA Masato from Kobe University's Graduate School of Health Sciences, and Chiba Institute of Technology's Associate Professor KAWANISHI Noriaki et al. In addition, the researchers illuminated that this phenomenon may be related to pro-inflammatory macrophages' (*2, 3, 4) ability to infiltrate damaged cells. This research raises questions as to whether or not severe muscle injuries (such as torn muscles) should be iced. These research results were published online as one of the Journal of Applied Physiology's Articles in Press on March 25, 2021. Main points The research results revealed that applying an ice pack to a severe muscle injury resulting from eccentric contraction may prolong the time it takes to heal. The cause of this phenomenon is that icing delays the arrival of pro-inflammatory macrophages, which are responsible for the phagocytosis (*5), or removal, of damaged tissue. Furthermore, this makes difficult for the macrophages to sufficiently infiltrate the damaged muscle cells. Research Background Skeletal muscle injuries encompass a range of damage to muscles; from a microcellular level to a severe level. These injuries include not only those that happen during sports or schools' physical education lessons but also external injuries that occur as a result of accidents and disasters. 'RICE treatment' is a common approach for skeletal muscle injuries, regardless of the extent of the injury. This acronym stands for Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation and is often used in physical education, sports and even medicine. Ice is commonly applied regardless of the type of muscle injury, yet little is known about the long-term effects of icing. Ice is used to suppress inflammation, however, inflammation in response to tissue injury is one of the body's healing mechanisms. This has come to be understood as a vital response for tissue regeneration. In other words, suppressing inflammation with ice may also inhibit the body's attempt to repair itself. Experiments investigating the effect of icing muscles after injury have produced conflicting results. Some have reported that it delays muscle regeneration while others have stated that it doesn't inhibit this process. However, none of the research up until now has investigated the effects of icing using an injury model that mimics common sports injuries caused by muscle contraction. Using a mouse model of eccentric contraction injury, the current research team decided to observe the effects of post-injury icing. In this mouse model, injuries were induced to resemble severe torn muscles. Research Methodology and Results Eccentric contraction was induced by electrically stimulating the leg muscles of the mice and then exerting a stronger force during this stimulation to make the leg muscles move in the opposite direction. After this, the muscles were harvested. Icing was performed by placing polyurethane bags of ice on top of the skin over three 30 minute sessions per day, with each session being 2 hours apart. This was continued until two days after the injury. The icing was based on the usual clinically recommended method. The researchers investigated the regenerated skeletal muscle two weeks after injury, comparing the icing group with the non-icing group. A significantly higher percentage of smaller regenerated muscle fibers were found in cross-sections from the icing group, with a greater number of medium to large fibers in the non-icing group (Figure 1). In other words, this revealed that skeletal muscle regeneration may be delayed as a result of icing. Next, the researchers periodically took samples of muscle from the icing and non-icing groups of animals in order to investigate what was happening in the regeneration process up until this point. In the regeneration process, inflammatory cells gather at the site of the injury, remove the debris from the damaged muscle and then begin to build new muscle. However, the results revealed that it is harder for inflammatory cells to enter the injured muscle cells if ice is applied (Figure 2). Macrophages are typical of the inflammatory cells that enter the injured muscle. These consist of pro-inflammatory macrophages, which phagocyte damaged tissue thus causing inflammation, and anti-inflammatory macrophages (*6), which suppress the inflammatory reaction and promote repair. It is thought that pro-inflammatory macrophages change their characteristics, becoming anti-inflammatory. The results of this research team's experiments showed that icing delays the arrival of pro-inflammatory macrophages at the site of the injury (Figure 3). These results indicate the possibility that macrophages are unable to sufficiently phagocyte the damaged muscle when ice is applied after severe muscle injuries caused by eccentric contraction, consequently delaying the formation of new muscle cells. Comment from Associate Professor Arakawa In sports, the mantra of immediately applying ice to an injury is commonplace, regardless of the injury's severity. However, the mechanism that we illuminated through this research suggests that not icing a severe muscle injury may lead to faster recovery. The idea of immediately cooling any type of injury is also entrenched in schools' physical education classes. I hope that in the future, the alternative option of speeding up recovery by not cooling severe muscle injuries will become known. However, even though icing may disrupt the recovery process for severe muscle injuries, there is no denying the possibility that there are degrees of mild muscle injuries that can be iced. The next issue is to work out where to draw the line. We are now in the middle of investigating what effect icing has on slight muscle injuries. Next, we will continue to investigate how icing should be carried out according to the extent of the muscle injury. We aim to contribute guidelines that will enable people in sports and clinical rehabilitation to make accurate judgements about whether or not to ice an injury.     Probiotics associated with fewer respiratory symptoms in overweight and older people Findings provide further evidence of relationship between the gut and lungs Imperial College London, May 14, 2021 Daily probiotic use was associated with fewer upper respiratory symptoms in overweight and older people, according to a study that suggests a potential role for probiotics in preventing respiratory infections. The study was selected for presentation at Digestive Disease Week® (DDW) 2021.  "This is not necessarily the most intuitive idea, that putting bacteria into your gut might reduce your risk of respiratory infection," said Benjamin Mullish, MD, a lead researcher on the study and clinical lecturer in the Division of Digestive Diseases, Imperial College London, England, "but it's further evidence that the gut microbiome has a complex relationship with our various organ systems. It doesn't just affect how our gut works or how our liver works, it affects aspects of how our whole body works." Researchers re-analyzed detailed daily diaries of 220 patients who participated in an earlier double-blind placebo-controlled study on probiotics and weight loss. Reviewing the entries for common symptoms of upper respiratory infection, including cough, sore throat and wheezing, researchers found that participants who took probiotics during the six-month study had a 27 percent lower overall incidence of upper respiratory tract symptoms compared to the placebo group. The effect was largest among participants who were aged 45 years or older, as well as those with obesity. People with obesity are at higher risk for respiratory infections. Previous research has shown that probiotics reduce upper respiratory infections in healthy adults and children, but little data exists on this vulnerable population of older, overweight and people with obesity. "These findings add to growing interest in the gut-lung axis -- how the gut and the lungs communicate with each other," Dr. Mullish said. "It's not just the gut sending out signals that affect how the lungs work. It works in both directions. It adds to the story that changes in the gut microbiome can affect large aspects of our health." The researchers did not measure immune response, only respiratory symptoms. Future randomized clinical trials could help identify the mechanisms related to the reduction in respiratory symptoms and explore the possible impact of probiotics on the immune system, Dr. Mullish said.     Fruit discovery could provide new treatments for obesity, type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease University of Warwick (UK), May 11, 2021    A combination of two compounds found in red grapes and oranges could be used to improve the health of people with diabetes, and reduce cases of obesity and heart disease. The find has been made by University of Warwick researchers who now hope that their discovery will be developed to provide a treatment for patients.   Professor Thornalley who led research said: "This is an incredibly exciting development and could have a massive impact on our ability to treat these diseases. As well as helping to treat diabetes and heart disease it could defuse the obesity time bomb."   The research 'Improved glycemic control and vascular function in overweight and obese subjects by glyoxalase 1 inducer formulation' has been published in the journal Diabetes, and received funding from the UK's innovation agency, Innovate UK. The project was a collaboration between the University of Warwick and University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire (UHCW) NHS Trust.   A team led by Paul Thornalley, Professor in Systems Biology at Warwick Medical School, studied two compounds found in fruits but not usually found together. The compounds are trans-resveratrol (tRES) - found in red grapes, and hesperetin (HESP) - found in oranges. When given jointly at pharmaceutical doses the compounds acted in tandem to decrease blood glucose, improve the action of insulin and improve thehealth of arteries.   The compounds act by increasing a protein called glyoxalase 1 (Glo1) in the body which neutralises a damaging sugar-derived compound called methylglyoxal (MG). MG is a major contributor to the damaging effects of sugar. Increased MG accumulation with a high energy diet intake is a driver of insulin resistance leading to type 2 diabetes, and also damages blood vessels and impairs handling of cholesterol associated with increased risk of cardiovascular diseases. Blocking MG improved health in overweight and obese people and will likely help patients with diabetes and high risk of cardiovascular disease too. It has already been proven experimentally that blocking MG improves health impairment in obesity and type 1 and type 2 diabetes.   Although the same compounds are found naturally in some fruits, the amounts and type required for health improvement cannot be obtained from increased fruit consumption. The compounds that increase Glo1 and are called a 'Glo1 inducer'. Pharmaceutical doses for patients with obesity, diabetes and high risk of heart disease could be given to patients in capsule form.   Professor Thornalley increased Glo1 expression in cell culture. He then tested the formulation in a randomised, placebo-controlled crossover clinical trial. Thirty-two overweight and obese people within the 18-80 age range who had a BMI between 25-40 took part in the trial. They were given the supplement in capsule form once a day for eight weeks. They were asked to maintain their usual diet and their food intake was monitored via a dietary questionnaire and they were also asked not to alter their daily physical activity. Changes to their sugar levels were assessed by blood samples, artery health measured by artery wall flexibility and other assessments by analysis of blood markers.   The team found that the highly overweight subjects who had BMIs of over 27.5 with treatment displayed increased Glo1 activity, decreased glucose levels, improved working of insulin, improved artery function and decreased blood vessel inflammation. There was no effect of placebo.   Professor Thornalley said: "Obesity, type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease are at epidemic levels in Westernised countries. Glo1 deficiency has been identified as a driver of health problems in obesity, diabetes and cardiovascular disease."   "Diabetic kidney disease will be the initial target to prove effective treatment for which we are currently seeking commercial investors and partners. Our new pharmaceutical is safe and expected to be an effective add-on treatment taken with current therapy.   "The key steps to discovery were to focus on increasing Glo1 and then to combine tRES and HESP together in the formulation for effective treatment. "As exciting as our breakthrough is it is important to stress that physical activity, diet, other lifestyle factors and current treatments should be adhered to."   Professor Martin O Weickert, Consultant in Diabetes and Endocrinology at UHCW NHS Trust, and co-applicant for the grant, said: "We were really excited to participate in this study with Warwick Medical School, as taking part in world-leading research makes a real difference to our patients both now and in the future. "As well as the positive effects for the UHCW patients who took part in the trial, we hope this study will lead to new treatments to help patients with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases all over the world."   Prof. Thornalley and his team are now hoping manufacturers will want to explore the use of the compound as pharmaceutical products.       Vitamin D supplementation associated with less time spent in ICU among critically ill patients Lishui People’s Hospital (China), May 18, 2021 According to news originating from Lishui, People’s Republic of China, research stated, “Vitamin D deficiency is a common scenario in critically ill patients and has been proven to be associated with poor outcomes. However, the effect of vitamin D supplementation for critically ill patients remains controversial.” Our news correspondents obtained a quote from the research from Lishui People’s Hospital: “Thus, we conducted a meta-analysis to evaluate the effect of vitamin D supplementation among critically ill patients. Electronic databases PubMed, Embase, Scopus, and the Cochrane Library were searched for eligible randomized controlled trials between 2000 and January 2021. The primary outcome was overall mortality, and the secondary ones were the length of intensive care unit stay, the length of hospital stay, as well as the duration of mechanical ventilation. Subgroup analyses were performed to explore the treatment effect by type of admission, route of administration, dose of supplemented vitamin D, and the degree of vitamin D deficiency. A total of 14 studies involving 2,324 patients were finally included. No effect on overall mortality was found between vitamin D supplementation and control group [odds ratio (OR), 0.73; 95% CI, 0.52-1.03; I2 = 28%]. The vitamin D supplementation reduced the length of intensive care unit stay [mean difference (MD), -2.25; 95% CI, -4.07 to -0.44, I2 = 71%] and duration of mechanical ventilation (MD, -3.47; 95% CI, -6.37 to -0.57, I2 = 88%). In the subgroup analyses, the vitamin D supplementation for surgical patients (OR, 0.67; 95% CI, 0.47-0.94; I2 = 0%) or through parenteral way (OR, 0.42; 95% CI, 0.22-0.82, I2 = 0%) was associated with reduced mortality.” According to the news reporters, the research concluded: “In critically ill patients, the supplementation of vitamin D has no effect on overall mortality compared to placebo but may decrease the length of intensive care unit stay and mechanical ventilation. Further trials are necessary to confirm our findings.”

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The effects of lycopene supplementation on serum insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) levels and cardiovascular disease Ganzhou People’s Hospital (China), February 22, 2021   The results of human studies assessing the efficacy of lycopene on insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) levels are inconsistent. Thus, we performed a systematic review and meta-analysis to examine the effects of lycopene supplementation on serum IGF-1 levels and cardiovascular disease. Methods The literature published up to January 2020 was searched using the electronic databases Scopus, PubMed/Medline, Web of Science, Embase and Google Scholar. Results Seven qualified trials were included in the current meta-analysis. IGF-1 levels were non-significantly decreased in lycopene group compared to the control (WMD: −6.74 ng/mL, 95 % CI: −23.01 to 9.52, p = 0.42; I2 = 94.3 %). Subgroup analysis revealed a significantly decrease in IGF-1 levels upon lycopene supplementation at doses ≥15 mg/d (WMD: −6.40 ng/mL), intervention period 15 mg/d, for

Gary takes on the real issues that the mainstream media is afraid to tackle. Tune in to find out the latest about health news, healing, politics, and the economy.  Becoming an Essentialist Prevent memory loss with a powerful nutrient in cucumbers Salk Institute for Biological Studies, February 16, 2021 The results of a recent study are offering new hope that avoiding memory loss related to aging as well as Alzheimer’s disease could be as simple as eating more cucumbers. Many older adults resign themselves to memory loss as part of the aging process. However, a study out of the the Salk Institute for Biological Studies has shown that this doesn’t have to be the case. The health benefits of cucumbers are many, and one of them seems to be better memory and even the prevention of Alzheimer’s disease. Researchers working with mice that normally developed the symptoms of Alzheimer’s (including memory loss) discovered that a daily dose of a flavonol called fisetin prevented these and other related impairments. This improvement occurred despite the continued formation of amyloid plaques, the brain proteins commonly blamed for Alzheimer’s. A natural food cure for memory loss The compound fisetin is found in numerous vegetables and fruits but is especially concentrated in strawberries and cucumbers. This flavonol is quite effective in stopping memory loss in mice and holds hope for humans as well. In the past, the main approach to treating Alzheimer’s symptoms was to target amyloid plaques in the brain. The findings of this study call into question the assumption that these proteins are largely responsible for the effects of Alzheimer’s. Even in animals with no signs of Alzheimer’s and otherwise normal functioning, fisetin has been shown to improve memory. However, its ability to prevent memory loss associated with Alzheimer’s disease could have profound implications for humans. Cucumbers protect the brain from inflammation Fisetin works by switching on a cellular pathway associated with the process of retrieving memories in the brain. Over a decade ago, other researchers discovered the compound fisetin assists in protecting the neurons of the brain from agingand its associated effects. It was found that this potent compound has both anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects on brain cells. The list of health benefits of cucumbers, strawberries and other fruits and vegetables containing fisetin now include brain and memory improvements. By extension, fisetin has properties that can be highly beneficial for those at risk for Alzheimer’s. Other health benefits of cucumbers In addition to improving memory and potentially protecting against Alzheimer’s, the cucumber fruit has a range of additional nutritional and health benefits. They are low in calories (a cup of cucumbers contains just 16 calories) and assist in hydration (they are comprised of 95 percent water). They also provide flavonoids, triterpenes and lignans which offer anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and cancer-preventing benefits. The peel and seeds in cucumbers contain beta-carotene for eye health and are the most nutrient-dense portions of the fruit. Cucumber seeds contain calcium and the skin and seeds are also excellent sources of fiber. Other vitamins include potassium, vitamin C, magnesium and manganese.     Testosterone levels increased significantly after DHEA administration among older women Jiangxi University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, February 14, 2021 According to news originating from Jiangxi, People’s Republic of China, research stated, “Despite the fact that numerous clinical studies have evaluated the positive effects of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) supplementation on testosterone concentrations and on the body mass index (BMI), more evidence is needed to certify that DHEA is a BMI-reducing agent in the elderly. This meta-analysis aims to clarify the various incompatible results and investigate the impact of DHEA supplementation on serum testosterone levels and lean body mass in elderly women.” Our news journalists obtained a quote from the research from the Jiangxi University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, “Four scientific databases (EMBASE, PubMed/MEDLINE, Scopus and Web of Science) were searched from inception until 20 August 2020 for trials comparing DHEA with placebo. Results were presented as weighted mean differences (WMDs) and 95 % confidence intervals (CIs) based on the random effects model (DerSimonian-Laird approach). Nine arms with 793 subjects reported testosterone as an outcome measure. The overall results demonstrated that testosterone levels increased significantly after DHEA administration in elderly women (WMD: 17.52 ng/dL, 95 % CI: 6.61, 28.43, P = 0.002). In addition, DHEA administration significantly decreased the BMI (WMD:-0.39 kg/m(2), I-2 = 0.0 %).” According to the news editors, the research concluded: “The results of the current meta-analysis support the use of DHEA supplementation for increasing testosterone concentrations in elderly women.” This research has been peer-reviewed.   How healthy lifestyle behaviours can improve cholesterol profiles Harvard School of Public Health, February 15, 2021 Combining healthy lifestyle interventions reduces heart disease through beneficial effects on different lipoproteins and associated cholesterols, according to a study published February 9 in eLife. Having a healthy lifestyle has long been associated with a lower risk of developing heart disease. The new study provides more detailed information on how healthy lifestyles improve cholesterol, and suggests that combining cholesterol-lowering medications and lifestyle interventions may yield the greatest benefits to heart health. Cholesterol-lowering medications such as statins help reduce heart risks by lowering levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, the so-called "bad" cholesterol. Healthy lifestyle interventions, including exercising regularly, having a healthy diet, lowering alcohol consumption and maintaining a healthy weight, have also been shown to lower LDL as well as increase "healthy" high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol. "Until now, no studies have compared the lipid-lowering effects of cholesterol-lowering medications and healthy lifestyle interventions side by side," says lead author Jiahui Si, Postdoctoral Research Fellow in the Department of Epidemiology at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts, US. To address this gap, Si and colleagues used a technique called targeted nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy to measure 61 different lipid markers in blood samples from 4,681 participants in the China Kadoorie Biobank, including cases of stroke, coronary heart disease and healthy individuals. They studied lipid markers in the blood of participants who had multiple healthy lifestyle habits and compared them to those of participants with less healthy habits. They found 50 lipid markers associated with a healthy lifestyle. When the team looked at a subset of 927 individuals who had coronary heart disease in the next 10 years and 1,513 healthy individuals, they found 35 lipid markers that showed statistically significant mediation effects in the pathway from healthy lifestyles to the reduction of heart disease. Together, the combined beneficial effects of the lipid changes associated with healthy lifestyle practices were linked to a 14% reduced risk of heart disease. Specifically, very-low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) and HDL levels in the blood were linked to the heart-protecting benefits of healthy lifestyles. "Using a genetic scoring technique, we could compare the effect of cholesterol-lowering drugs with that of lifestyle side by side in the study participants," says co-senior author Liming Liang, Associate Professor of Statistical Genetics in the Department of Epidemiology at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. "Our analysis confirmed that cholesterol-lowering drugs would have the expected effect in lowering LDL cholesterol, but this is much weaker compared to the effect of healthy behaviours on VLDL cholesterol which also increases the risk of heart disease." Overall, they found that taking cholesterol-lowering medications and engaging in multiple healthy lifestyles would likely help individuals to achieve the greatest heart-protecting benefits because of the complementary effects of the drugs and healthy behaviours. "Lifestyle interventions and lipid-lowering medications may affect different components of the lipid profile, suggesting they are not redundant strategies but could be combined for improved benefits," concludes co-senior author Jun Lv, Professor at the Department of Epidemiology & Biostatistics at the School of Public Health, Peking University Health Science Center, Beijing, China.   Role of Diet in Colorectal Cancer IncidenceUmbrella Review of Meta-analyses of Prospective Observational Studies University of Utah, February 16 Question  How credible is the evidence behind the association of dietary factors with colorectal cancer (CRC) risk in published meta-analyses of prospective observational studies? Findings  This umbrella review of 45 meta-analyses describing 109 associations found convincing evidence for an association between lower CRC risk and higher intakes of dietary fiber, dietary calcium, and yogurt and lower intakes of alcohol and red meat. Meaning  This study suggests that dietary factors may have a role in the development and prevention of CRC, but more research is needed on specific foods for which the evidence remains suggestive. Abstract Importance  Several meta-analyses have summarized evidence for the association between dietary factors and the incidence of colorectal cancer (CRC). However, to date, there has been little synthesis of the strength, precision, and quality of this evidence in aggregate. Objective  To grade the evidence from published meta-analyses of prospective observational studies that assessed the association of dietary patterns, specific foods, food groups, beverages (including alcohol), macronutrients, and micronutrients with the incidence of CRC. Data Sources  MEDLINE, Embase, and the Cochrane Library were searched from database inception to September 2019. Evidence Review  Only meta-analyses of prospective observational studies with a cohort study design were eligible. Evidence of association was graded according to established criteria as follows: convincing, highly suggestive, suggestive, weak, or not significant. Results  From 9954 publications, 222 full-text articles (2.2%) were evaluated for eligibility, and 45 meta-analyses (20.3%) that described 109 associations between dietary factors and CRC incidence were selected. Overall, 35 of the 109 associations (32.1%) were nominally statistically significant using random-effects meta-analysis models; 17 associations (15.6%) demonstrated large heterogeneity between studies (I2 > 50%), whereas small-study effects were found for 11 associations (10.1%). Excess significance bias was not detected for any association between diet and CRC. The primary analysis identified 5 (4.6%) convincing, 2 (1.8%) highly suggestive, 10 (9.2%) suggestive, and 18 (16.5%) weak associations between diet and CRC, while there was no evidence for 74 (67.9%) associations. There was convincing evidence of an association of intake of red meat (high vs low) and alcohol (≥4 drinks/d vs 0 or occasional drinks) with the incidence of CRC and an inverse association of higher vs lower intakes of dietary fiber, calcium, and yogurt with CRC risk. The evidence for convincing associations remained robust following sensitivity analyses. Conclusions and Relevance  This umbrella review found convincing evidence of an association between lower CRC risk and higher intakes of dietary fiber, dietary calcium, and yogurt and lower intakes of alcohol and red meat. More research is needed on specific foods for which evidence remains suggestive, including other dairy products, whole grains, processed meat, and specific dietary patterns.     Pizza, burgers and the like: A single high-fat meal can damage  metabolism Deutsches Diabetes-Zentrum (Germany), February 16, 2021   The global proliferation of overweight and obese people and people with type 2 diabetes is often associated with the consumption of saturated fats. Scientists at the German Diabetes Center (Deutsches Diabetes-Zentrum, DDZ) and the Helmholtz Center in Munich (HMGU) have found that even the one-off consumption of a greater amount of palm oil reduces the body's sensitivity to insulin and causes increased fat deposits as well as changes in the energy metabolism of the liver. The results of the study provide information on the earliest changes in the metabolism of the liver that in the long term lead to fatty liver disease in overweight persons as well as in those with type 2 diabetes.   In the current issue of the "Journal of Clinical Investigation", DZD researchers working at the German Diabetes Center, in conjunction with the Helmholtz Center in Munich and colleagues from Portugal, published a scientific investigation conducted on healthy, slim men, who were given at random a flavored palm oil drink or a glass of clear water in a control experiment. The palm oil drink contained a similar amount of saturated fat as two cheeseburgers with bacon and a large portion of French fries or two salami pizzas. The scientists showed that this single high-fat meal sufficed to reduce the insulin action, e.g. cause insulin resistance and increase the fat content of the liver. In addition, changes in the energy balance of the liver were proven. The observed metabolic changes were similar to changes observed in persons with type 2diabetes or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). NAFLD is the most common liver disease in the industrial nations and associated with obesity, the so-called "metabolic syndrome," and is associated with an increased risk in developing type 2 diabetes. Furthermore, NAFLD in advanced stages can result in severe liver damage.   "The surprise was that a single dosage of palm oil has such a rapid and direct impact on the liver of a healthy person and that the amount of fat administered already triggered insulin resistance", explained Prof. Dr. Michael Roden, scientist, Managing Director and Chairman at the DDZ and the German Center for Diabetes Research (Deutsches Zentrum für Diabetesforschung, DZD). "A special feature of our study is that we monitored the liver metabolism of people with a predominantly non-invasive technology, e.g. by magnetic resonance spectroscopy. This allows us to track the storage of sugar and fat as well as the energy metabolism of the mitochondria (power plants of the cell)." Thanks to the new methods of investigation, the scientists were able to verify that the intake of palm oil affects the metabolic activity of muscles, liver and fatty tissue. The induced insulin resistance leads to an increased new formation of sugar in the liver with a concomitant decreased sugar absorption in the skeletal muscles - a mechanism that makes the glucose level rise in persons afflicted with type 2 diabetes and its pre-stages. In addition, the insulin resistance of the fatty tissue causes an increased release of fats into the blood stream, which in turn continues to foster the insulin resistance. The increased availability of fat leads to an increased workload for the mitochondria, which can in the long term overtax these cellular power plants and contribute to the emergence of a liver disease.   The team of Prof. Roden suspects that healthy people, depending on genetic predisposition, can easily manage this direct impact of fatty food on the metabolism. The long-term consequences for regular eaters of such high-fat meals can be far more problematic, however.    

0:01  Hey, gut check project fans and KB MD health family. This is Eric, I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And this is Episode 48. I don't have a clue what we're gonna talk about.0:12  Well, I think that Okay, so if you did not see Episode 47, we put a lot of work into that one. Yeah, we've gotten a ton of great feedback on that. And it's just the beginning, because because of that episode, we've been contacted by a lot of other scientists, a lot of people. And we're gonna be having a really special PhD on to describe her research soon. And it's, you know, thankfully, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's0:34  really, really cool. We actually got a lot of feedback not only in the traditional sense, thank you all for who've been emailing in and messaging. But the two patients who came through and watched it right before we scoped them, I was impressed to how many of them tried to do what you did to me and made me list everything out. And so that was that was pretty interesting. So0:53  just a recap of 47 it was important because we've uncovered a lot of important research showing how the polyphenols like polyphenols in atrantil can actually help your innate immune system. And it's, it's the tip of the iceberg because I've been contacted by out both allergist epidemiologists, some PhDs going wow, that is exactly what my research is in. I'd like to talk about it more.1:16  What about just this morning, we had that discussion with somebody over in the UK who is specifically utilizing guess what polyphenols for athletes and elite athlete training. Never met the guy before has an incredible program. What do you think of that? Oh, that's1:31  great. It's actually Aiden Goggins. And he he wrote the cert diet, which is the I believe it's the diet that Adele lost all her weight on and it's all about the benefit of polyphenols turning on these sirtuin pathways. He's he agreed to come on the show also great guy super smart. That was awesome hanging out with him this morning. So what's going on with you? Let's let's get let's make this more casual this time. The last couple of podcasts have been so intense with the immune system and stuff. Let's change it up a little.1:56  Yeah, man. I chatted with gage this morning. He scores out of tech he's loving School, which is great. And you know he's he's enjoying his time as a freshman. His most college kids who are freshmen should be doing Mack is in midseason basketball. He loves it. He just He scored his 106 point where this basketball team is last week. He's super pumped about that. Okay,2:20  let's let's clarify that. So he scored his 106 documented point or he scored the 106 I2:25  scored the 106 which is the high watermark for his current code. That's awesome. That's awesome joints. He joins his brother who was the first person to push a coach over 1002:34  Yes, that's awesome. So the reader brothers doing proper to the basketball team.2:39  Their dad's terrible. I know. I got a shiner got a little shiner. Here you go look at the camera here. Yeah, look at the mirror image of me. Yeah, we're doing little remodeling on the house. And unfortunately, the middle of the night I tripped over a box and face planet. So as I was telling my patient I walked in and we're gonna put him to sleep. And he's like, Whoa, Doc, he's like, do a get a little tussle. And I'm like, no. And he's like, well, it'll probably only affect your modeling career for a bit. And I'm like, Well, I'm actually a hand model. So that's why I protected myself with my face. Yeah, why don't you show that fingerand see how good of a handball you are?3:16  Well, I played I play the before picture and all hand model. A bunch of Orthopedic Surgeons jabbed me they're like, hey, yeah, can I use that in an ad?3:26  I specialize in ring finger. Yeah. We're gonna straighten it out.3:32  Oh, guess what I signed up for what? I signed up for the Wim Hof breathing. Wow, awesome. I'm doing the Wim Hof if you don't know who Wim Hof is, he's this crazy guy that has this incredible breathing course which we're gonna talk about that I read. I read James nesters book called breath, the site the lost science, and everything is all over there. Oh, dude, it's because we're all just like, Whoa, you can change your life by breathing. And that's what the Wim Hof Method is just breathe. And it's so I've been doing this every morning for we're going on two weeks now. And the problem is it also involves cold exposure. So every morning instead of waking up and doing my Yani coffee and warm hot shower, I'm breathing a ton and then jumping into a cold shower so we'll see4:16  feedback on it. Okay, well, just real quick, since I don't know where we're going with today's show. I'm just gonna go ahead and ask is this one of those things from Wim Hof where he is having you breathe in at a certain interval breathe out a certain interval so that you can achieve something and then it can you can you shed a little light on them?4:32  Yeah. So the Wim Hof Method in a nutshell is a cyclical breathing where you, you over inflate and then you exhale to atmospheric pressure. So you go above atmospheric pressure to atmospheric pressure. You do this in a cyclical way, almost like a wave and you train yourself to breathe in a cyclical way. And what that does is that increases your oxygen saturation of the cells decreases your co2, and I know where you're going because last time we I started talking about putting physiology, we ended up doing a whole podcast on that. Check out COVID episode three or four. But what that does is that actually raises your pH because the co2 retention will increase the pH. Okay. So in this book, in breath, I got really into that because we realized that in our stress society and the more stressed you are, we tend to shallow rapid breathe, which actually is the improper way to do it. So when you want to relax, you breathe six seconds in six seconds out, that should be the proper tempo. This is a different method. This is to supercharge your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system interesting. And then you do 30. In this case, you can do like 30 cycles of this. really deep breathing and then it on number 30, you exhale, and you hold your breath. So you and you time it and it's really funny because I'm following him on the course. And he's this very, he's been on Rhonda Patrick show and always been a me Joe Rogan. And everybody and so he's so funny, because he's the same all the time. I think he's always Wim Yeah. And so he's been on Ben Greenfield and stuff. And so he's, you know, you feel like this bond, because I'm like, holding my breath. And he's like, it's okay. You're good. You can do longer. You're,6:12  I mean, the guy is a physical walking experiment. He's done everything, especially when it comes down to this controlled breathing situation.6:19  Yeah, he holds like 20 world records and stuff. Yeah, but but it's all but it's all based off science. It's not like and that's what he tries to tell everybody. He's like, anybody can do this. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to experiment. We'll6:28  see if I can interesting. I'm curious how how they're explaining to lay people because that's probably what this is written for. From lay people all the way down to the science. So maybe that would be a topic that we will get into after you experiment with it a6:40  little bit. Yeah, 6:40  I'm really interested. 6:41  But we want to keep this episode light. Okay, this is just gonna be a fun, easy episode. Or we're just gonna relax. Gosh, I was sitting there with Dr. Ackerman in the office. And I got a quick question for you. Because uh6:56  have a quick question for me after talking to Steve6:57  Yeah, okay. Because it says cuz Stu, and I kind of disagreed on something. And I was like, Are you insane? We got in this discussion about carbonated water and he actually likes Waterloo over Bella VB. Like more like I couldn't even believe it. I'm like, Are you insane? Okay, well, wait, who's7:15  insane? He's insane for liking for liking Waterloo.7:18  Like how can you like Waterloo? Over Bell v. I mean, it's a apparently, well,7:25  I never questioned the fact that you are a doctor until right now. Because apparently, Stu is on the right side of history. And you're on the wrong side of history. 7:33  How can you even say that? I mean, the bubbles in this are more effervescent, the flavoring is better. I mean, I have7:40  a feeling that you're way more prepared for this talk than me. I'm just going to tell you that Waterloo kicks ass. Because I think Waterloo labor looks really cute7:48  is delicious. We can argue about this calories,7:50  no sugar. I don't know how many of these are crusher day, but I think they're awesome.7:55  I don't want to spend this whole podcast arguing about which carbonated beverage is better? I do I do have a real question for you. Okay, because I was totally forgot this. And I know that you and I've done this. Would you mind explaining to me? Because I know you're really like theoretical mathematics. Can you explain to me again, the Yang Mills existence and mass gap in mathematics?8:15  I would but it would take way too long. Okay.8:17  So I mean, you're super smart. And I realized that that would normally be just like a no brainer. I don't want to tell you that Yang Mills I love not being patronized back. Alright, so the whole reason for that set up. Was I I've been talking to a lot of patients and a lot of patients that have had COVID are having lingering symptoms and brain fog and things like that. And so you call them the the long haulers. Well, I see that all the time, because we see that people that have gut inflammation, end up having other things going on. So I was like, wow, you know, what, what, what is happening there? And then I started going down a little rabbit hole and Angie and I looking up articles and then you know, found this article where we thought Oh, when we initially when COVID first came out, it's like oh COVID infects the brain. And then I think you and I even discussed the possibility of the vagus nerve being a conduit where viruses can get up and it was all theory and everything. And so then I started thinking Wait a minute, if we end up with all these long hollers, what's the effect on the brain and then on the effect on the brain, I went down a little rabbit hole. And then I'm like, Well, wait a minute. If we end up with lots of neuro inflammation, how does that impact our psychiatric help?9:34  Health health? Yeah,9:35  because I'm, I really believe that we're gonna end up in another pandemic. So many people are suffering from depression and anxiety. And we may end up you may end up in a situation where if you had this infection, you could end up having a little bit more anxiety, OCD, different things. And so neuroinflammation then that got me thinking, Wait a minute, how does how will this affect spouses and families and things? Because divorce rates through the roof and I'm like, What if whoa, wait a minute, what if all this inflammation and the stress is leading to psychiatric changes, but not even something really tangible that you can sit there and label a DSM for diagnosis on? What if it actually affects your cognitive ability? And so then,10:20  let me just stop there. How could it not?10:22  Right? Totally agree, except this is this is a podcast where we try and make sense of things. Sure, that that are like that. So that's the rabbit hole that I went down. And now I'm going to bring it back. So what's interesting is I did I do want to discuss one article that looked at damage in dissected brains and people that died of COVID. Okay, and it's not as straightforward as you think. Okay. And then I started thinking, well, if there's the inflammation that's there, then I found an article that actually discusses neuro inflammation, psychiatric illness, followed by here's what happens in our brain when we disagree. And ultimately ending up on disagreeing takes up a lot of mental real estate. So that was a really long setup to ask you a mathematic question, to pretend like I tied up your brain arguing over carbonated water. I'm sorry. I was trying to figure out how to set up how we're gonna talk about today's episode, which is all about the brain. Okay. It's all about neuro inflammation, the brain and the fact that we're still in the middle of this pandemic. It really wasn't to bring you on the show and argue about water and then ask you a theoretical math question that I just googled 30 seconds before we came on the air11:35  live is fine. I'm just glad that I wasn't up for the challenge, either.11:39  You would have freaked me out if you would have noticed.11:42  It is would have been a random Google experience to be interesting. So if I understood what you just said that you're saying that we we probably waste far too many resources metabolically and over our brain trying to disagree with someone. Well, it's Yeah,11:58  that But let's get back to the inflammatory process. Okay, Episode 47 was the innate immune system. And it makes sense why we have all this inflammation. So I guess what I'm saying is, let's prepare ourselves for the possibility that more than the usual number of people may be behaving in a way that they may not, or they may behave an extreme way, because I just heard a podcast this morning on med cram, that he was discussing that an article came out on the online version of ama, where they were looking at these, they surveyed, like a bunch of 170 people, and a shockingly high number had residual symptoms, three to six months after actually being diagnosed with COVID. And of this group, they were all really mild. And so what, what we're now realizing is, is that we may end up having a lot of these young people that had really mild COVID end up having symptoms of they're just fatigued. Brain fog is super common. Sure. shortness of breath, it's common. Sure. So I think that we need to start preparing for this, I guess, is what I'm getting not only preparing for, here's, here's something that we don't know. So you just said three to six months. I mean, the the full on onset of COVID, still wasn't even one year ago. So if we're looking at that number, there, we're not even looking at like a threshold for this to end, right. Because we don't know that yet. There's not enough time has passed. We're saying three and six months, because that may just be as long as that infection has existed for13:32  that number of people. 100%. So13:34  let's jump into these articles. But I like where you're going with this. Because this is what I want to do is prepare for what makes sense of things before it actually happens. I'm actually quite proud of something. And I've heard this from several people that whatever, nine months ago when we did COVID one and two, I'm sure yeah, we actually still stood the test of time. Yeah. Because one of my friends was actually talking about this, the fact that he's hearing he's going back and having fun looking at podcasts at the beginning. And now it seems absurd the things that were saying, and I got scared. I was like, we're totally absurd. And we were actually pretty pretty spot on.14:10  Yeah, but I mean, I think quite honestly, in a lot of this has to do with the way that people who've communicate with us we, what we approach it isn't politically motivated. It's, I think that we're trying to always lean on what research says, and what research means. And so you can actually filter off, sometimes the stuff that's just noise. And that's what we try not to do here is deliver noise, we want to see if we can bring some context to what we think is real.14:37  So what I would like to do is let's talk about this and let's look at this from a future neuro inflammatory process. And it all comes down to one thing that we've said a million times on this show inflammation. Sure. All right, so the first article that I came across, and these are all obviously very recent articles, some of them just a few days ago actually. Study uncovers blood vessel damage and inflammation in COVID-19 patient brains, but no infection. So this is a surprise that they did an in depth study and how COVID-19 affects patients brains, and they consistently spotted hallmarks of what they consider damage in an MRI while the patient was living, okay. And then they ended up taking a sample of 19 patients that actually died, and then they did an autopsy on them, okay, assuming that they would find necrosis clots. Because we've been talking about clots during this, oh, you're gonna have these thrombosis factor five lied and gets kicked in, and then you're gonna have you know, clots happen. And so what they found was now the exact opposite was happening in these brains. What they did is they found these bright spots contain blood vessels that were thinner than normal blood vessels. Yeah, they gave up integrity, didn't they, they gave up integrity, they had leaky vessels. And this appeared to leak proteins, like fibrinogen, the brain, which triggered an immune reaction locally, sure. microglial cells, these spots were surrounded by the innate immune system T cells trying to control it. And what that ended up happening was that the brain's own immune cells, tried to shut this down, created inflammation, which ultimately led to the neuro inflammation seen on these MRIs.16:20  Yeah.16:21  So the fascinating thing about that is controlling the inflammation may have prevented these lesions from forming. That's not why these patients died. But it does give us insight as to why people will be having brain fog in the future.16:33  Without question, then guess what? That processes, even though it's specific right now about COVID-19? These things cycling out of control that that's not new, though, right? I mean, people have had these kind of problems before. And it's just like you said, it all goes down to inflammation. So what can we do to help control inflammation that doesn't get out of control?16:54  So what you just said, This isn't new? Yeah, you're exactly right. An article in 2013, in the Journal of neuro inflammation, shows that there are multiple lines of evidence to support the pathogenic role of neuro inflammation in psychiatric illness. why that's important is because neuro inflammation can lead and then they go on to describe all these psychiatric illnesses. Now, one of my friends had a recent zoom, 50th birthday parties, a football player and some other football players were on there. And so, you know, you start looking at all these, the players that played a career in that, and that's what I was thinking. I was like, you know, neuroinflammation, how do we protect all these? And then I started thinking about, you know, veterans and things like that. Looking at this article, we've known that inflammation does this for a very long time. So I'm like, well, recently, let's see what's happened. Let's see if they tied it to very specific diseases, do a Google Scholar shirts, and you will see that there's a link between neuro inflammation and depression, aggression, fatigue, obsessive compulsive disorder, addiction, anger, chronic pain, all of it. The the scientists return to today, he checks inflammatory markers in his athletes. Yeah, he trains a lot of MMA fighters, a lot of pro boxers and things,18:09  guess what he's checking, TNF alpha, interleukin six.18:14  So we already know from prior podcasts that eating functional foods will help with inflammation. So what I want to do is take a different turn. And like I was kind of prepping, let's prepare for the possibility that we may be dealing with more people that have neuro inflammation. So how do you handle it, there may be more mental illness coming towards us. Sure. And mental illness can be a spectrum, mental illness just might be a few. If you've ever suffered from anxiety, even a little bit of anxiety that that can incapacitate you. And that goes all the way to complete debilitating, OCD or schizophrenia and things. And it looks like it's all coming down to inflammation, let alone now we're just talking about the short term, let alone dementia, Parkinson's, and so on, which is, once again, inflammation is the cause of that.19:09  Yeah, absolutely. And I like that at the very beginning, you were at the very beginning. But about a minute and a half ago, you were talking about how do we protect these people like you saw on Jr's zoom call? But also, what do you do for those who are sustaining an assault right now or inflammation right now to heal them to help bring them back? Because I think it's both of those things. Let's say that someone's having an anxious problem, long term anxiety. Do you really think that having a long term poor diet along with that is going to help them with their mental state and recover it's not you still have to give your body the tools to give it I mean, a mechanic can only fix the car with the tools and you have to give your body the tools to help your brain heal.19:55  So when you have inflammation, there's a possibility that you are Maybe have a little more anger, which could lead to arguments. So now let's get into the physiology of arguing. I mean, I could see how heated you got when I was insulting Waterloo there. And I know. So this is a study that actually was published in in the Journal of nature and neuroscience. Basically what they did is they looked at people during an argument, right, and they tried to see what actually goes on. And so in a heated disagreement, generally speaking, you may lose respect for the person that you're talking to, you know, whether it's about something real heated or whatever, but if you're passionate about it, you will lose respect and whether you feel appreciated or not, a lot of times what is described as that the other person is ignoring them, or they feel ignored. And so there's a concept here where you're passionate about your thing, I'm passionate. When when I walk out of the room, I feel like I've been ignored, like you have not heard anything, and you feel the exact same way. And then there may be some truth to that. There could be Did you ever wonder what's going on in the other person's brain that could explain that? So understanding when you're looking at somebody, and you're like, I'm talking but you don't really seem like you're hearing me?21:12  Can I kind of guess on what you heard this may be going? Sure. So as a as a younger person engaging in an argument, I oftentimes would find myself, let's say that you and I were having a true disagreement. And that your your first approach to me was to tell me why you felt something that I was doing, or that I thought was completely wrong. So the first thing I hear is, he doesn't like what it is. And while you're talking and making that point, I'm really just fortifying my position. Really not even listening to anything that you would have said, however, as a, as an older adult, I would imagine, and you learn this as a parent to really go to the child or the person you have a disagreement with. And try to find an area where we already agree or even compliment the other person. So that you're really beginning to build a bridge and make it look like your point of disagreement is you're arriving at it that there's a problem that we have together.22:14  That is correct. From the top. Okay, now let's talk about what's actually going on in the brain that leads to that. Okay, so to get to that point, so that you can take control of it. So have you ever been in a heated argument? All right. So what they did is they took 21 pairs of volunteers, and they asked them to make financial decisions, decisions in particular, they each had to assess the value of real estate, then they had to bet money on there a second. All right, so each volunteer, terrible, I know, each volunteer laid in a brain imaging scanner while performing the tasks, so that the scientists could record and the volunteers had to agree on the price of real estate. If they agreed, each of them became more confident, and they bet more money on it. Which makes sense, because that's the tribalism if you affirm what I'm believing Well, yeah, we're both right. Are you kidding me? You need to buy some GameStop.Yeah, then we get really excited.23:27  I love this Reddit group.23:29  That's, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. So stop and think what Reddit is, when you do a sub group, you've already positioned yourself in a tribe. And when you say something, and you get up voted, you're just like affirming exactly what's going on. So that's totally cool. So I agree with you that I'm more sure that I must be right. Now what's going on is the activity is in the brain region called the posterior medial medial frontal cortex, which is also known to be involved in cognitive dissonance. And it's the part that will track the confidence level in the person that you're with. So there's a section of the brain that lit up when they agreed. And it was associated with the fact that they were agreeing and they had more continental cortex. No, no, no, it's not. It's the posterior medial frontal cortex. Okay, so wherever post posterior medial frontal Let me think about that. neuroanatomy is ridiculous. It's hard. It's like where is it? It's in the back. Middle. upper part. Yeah. On the lower. I mean, southwest corner. Yeah. All right. So anyways, so they found that the more competent one volunteer was, the more confident the partner became and vice versa. It and once again, it gives the feeling of why we joined tribes and why we seek out people with similar opinions. Okay. However, the interesting part is this when people disagreed, their brains became less sensitive to the strength of others opinions. Remember that the posterior medial frontal cortex when they agreed it tracked the content So I'm sensitive to exactly what you're saying. So what they're saying here, when people disagreed, they became less sensitive to the strength of others opinions. And after agreement, the post your medial frontal cortex cortex, could no longer track the partners competence on the scan when they disagreed and went, yeah, and went away. Consequently, the opinion of the disagreeing partner had little impact on people's conviction that they were correct. Regardless of whether the disagreeing partner was very sure in their assessment, or not at all, they doubled down. They went, Oh, no, they disagreed. So this one shut off, and perceived no lack of confidence in the other person. Does that make sense? Like it's, it's, it's not even a conscious thing going on very much sense. Blood went away from that part of the brain. And so pretty interesting. When they tested the volunteers memory, so a lot of times you'd say, Oh, they just didn't listen to me. They just didn't, they didn't remember it. clearly didn't remember. Because I feel that way a lot when you walk away, and you're like, well, they didn't listen, they won't remember anything. That's not the case. They actually tested the volunteers memory of their partners assessment and bets. Rather, it seemed that contradictory opinions were more likely to be considered categorically wrong. And therefore the strength of those opinions was unimportant. Yeah, that's right. So you can understand how we end up in this polarizing society, if that's going on. It's super complex, multi layered reasons for all this stuff. But how can we increase our chances, you said it best right there. So the end of this article was, well, if this is going on, do something First, find someplace to agree on first, because when you get to an agreement level, if you and I are agreeing, then I assess your confidence, and I automatically a part of my brain gets turned on. If we're finding the common ground, then I'm that part of my brain is ready to see if we can do this. So it's a subconscious thing. We don't know what's going on, it's going on on a physiological level, that that part of the brain kind of gets lit up. And so in the midst of a heated disagreement, just take a step back, find a common ground, and be like, Hey, I know that you're super passionate about Waterloo, and you're part of that subreddit, our Waterloo kill all other, you know, bubbly, but you know what, you know, what's really good? Doesn't matter the brand. I just like the effervescence, right?27:26  Yeah, it's all about the effervescence, as long as it's waterloo.27:31  So I'm the one that found the common ground, so I was prepared to accept your opinion. But you didn't, you didn't join me on that.27:38  The way it started 20 minutes ago.27:41  So the whole reason why I asked you the math question. So, um, it started out with Oh, my gosh, we're gonna have a lot of people with neuro inflammation. Oh, my gosh, they'll be arguing How do you prepare yourself for these arguments? How do you tell, like many things, I do better when I know, oh, I'm behaving like this. My body's doing this. I'm tachycardic. My blood pressure is rising, because I'm letting my emotions have a physiologic effect. Okay, so same thing. So you get an argument go, Oh, why am I being so dissonant here? It could be because blood is going to the wrong part of your brain, instead of where it should go. So that's step one. And then the reason why I asked you the math question, because this is the article that came out on January 14. disagreeing takes up a lot of brain real estate. This one is fun to me. Because much like the adage, it's easier to smile and frown. disagree, is exhausting mentally.28:36  I mean, think about it, you you have a great encounter with a friend, it feels good. And you don't want it to end if you're locked into a disagreement. Think of people sweat sometimes when they're when they're just having a verbal disagreement. And I've got Yeah, that's not even surprising. It's it's not surprising, but28:56  what is always surprising to me is when scientists can prove it, and they have tests to do it. Oh, for sure.29:02  Sure, your brains lit up on that one. So29:03  this one's really cool. So they is defense though, right? Well, we're gonna get into it right here. Check this out. It's more than just defense, something really unique. And it's fascinating. This comes out of Yale. So Yale, researchers devised a way to peer into the brains of two people simultaneously, while they are engaged in discussion. So when two people agree, their brains exhibit a calm synchronicity of activity focused on the sensory area of the brain. I'll say this, again, a calm synchronicity in the sensory area of the brain, okay. This was the sensory area. They didn't get into the exact place but it could be the amygdala, it could be you know, various areas. However, so many other regions of the brain are involved in higher cognitive groups. But when they disagree, so when you're agreeing, you synchronize in the area of the brain, that is the sensory area, okay? In other words, I can feel and see your social cues. Okay? So when we disagree, however, many other regions of the brain involved in higher cognitive function become mobilized as each individual combats the other's arguments. So say that again. So if we're arguing, instead of me just sinking into almost a Zen state of, we're in the sensory area right now, my brain knows that we're arguing. And so my brain shifts blood to the frontal cortex, where there should be higher cognitive functioning, and it's trying to prepare and figure out how we're going to do whatever and come back at it. And so it just, it just lit up and these people, so our entire brain is a social processing network. However, when you disagree, you lose the social processing cues, because you get away from the sensory aspect. I believe that so it becomes all trying to wrap your brain around the logical thing, why in the world, would you like Waterloo, and I'm, you know, so it becomes this, the state and you don't have any, any control over it. So to test their theory, they looked at 38 adults, and after they match them up, based on their responses that the researchers used, they put them in this really cool imaging technology called a functional near infrared spectroscopy. And what they were able to do is record their brain activity while they're engaged in face to face discussions. So remember, the last one, they were kind of in this functional MRI, and they were kind of arguing over a thing. This one specifically allowed them to do real time where two people could like, get in their face and be like, are you you know, like a argument or whatever it is. And what they found is pretty cool. 32:04  Yeah, so if I am.32:06  So if we agree, we are in sync? Sure. If we don't, then I'm trying to use my brain to figure out how to get you to do what I want you to do. So when they were in agreement, the brain activity was harmonious and tended to be concentrated on sensory areas of the brain, such as the visual system. thought this was super cool. Okay, think about when you used to date. And you could tell we're all of a sudden, it's like, the data is going well.32:33  Why is she walking away?32:39  So your date, your dating life? Was that bad that she actually showed up? You're like, oh, when she's leaving, or she's leaving to32:47  what am I doing?32:48  Well, you're, you're not in sync with the sensory areas. Yeah, learn that. But I thought this was fascinating. But the visual system as a sensory area gets in sync. And the visual system, presumably in response to the social cues from the partner.33:03  Okay. Makes sense, though. Because you're almost trying to complement what it is that the person there is doing. Right? That's Yeah,33:09  exactly. So like, I just think it's interesting. When you're like, man, I really, it's that classic thing. Oh, yeah, I know that person. Yeah, we had a great, really cool, we really connected or, you so easy to get along with or, you know, it's33:21  seen as kind of a bad thing, whenever, whenever it's highlighted, because a wrong decision ultimately is made. But there, I think it's just somewhat natural for people to long term when they are jiving with someone else to develop certain confirmation biases. And it's not necessarily always wrong. The conclusions, it's just highlighted when a confirmation bias turns out to be the wrong decision. Doe s that make sense? Because maybe when people are agreeing, and they're working together, it's actually fostering teamwork. And people need other people, wolves are in packs, etc. It's like part of that has to happen so that people feel comfortable working together. But if they're disagreeing, it's like you said, I'm your brains working this puzzle? How am I going to effectively remove myself from this guy's opinion or this thought? Because it's not working out for me. So you really don't care that the visual cue is telling you that the other person is uncomfortable. So you don't you're not tuning in to the fact that they're wanting to pull away? In fact, you're kind of glad.34:25  Yeah, that is totally true. The first article showed the activity, the blood flow, sure, this art or I'm sorry, that basically the blood flow, this article shows the actual activity and however they do it. So it makes sense that once we start disagreeing, I start shifting blood to the the cognitive region of my brain, and it just starts bouncing around trying to figure out how to do that if two people are34:47  agreeing, you're almost allowing yourself to trust the other person to help you in figuring it out. So you're a little bit more relaxed, it's not requiring as much as you begin to disagree. I just wonder if this plays into Little bit of biology like, Well, look, we're in disagreement, we're not working together, I've got to assume more responsibility of this thought this process this conversation.35:10  And then you know, these these guys looked at that, and they're like, well, meanwhile, if they're disagreeing activity, increasing the brain's frontal lobe, your home of higher order executive functions and filtering, and but that's a necessary evolutionary response. Yeah, because if I'm actually in a disagreement, like my like this could escalate, I need to start thinking and planning ahead. The problem is when you start having disagreements over stupid stuff, or things like that, or you have the same disagreement, let's say with a spouse, like you know, I don't know, it's really random, but like, clean up your bedroom, you're so messy, when you come home kind of thing, just random. And fortunately, since I disagree, I'm able to cognitively avoid that. You know what, never mind I realize I'm just going to go home and be in sync from now on and just be one with my mess. Sure, and just allow it to happen. Yeah, or I don't consider it a mess. Yeah, just said, I actually don't consider it that. So what knowing that we've got this synchronicity when this happens when two people agree that brains exhibit calm synchronicity, focused in the sensory areas of the brain, and discord, the brains engage in emotional and cognitive resources. Now, here's the cool part, if we're both disagreeing, and this is both going on, when we're in synchronicity, we're playing a symphony together. When we're disagreeing, and your cognitive functions doing this, and minds doing this, we're both playing symphonies in our heads, but they're different. Trying to play him at the same time. It's36:36  like a jazz band.36:40  So you're, you're equating jazz to cognitive dysfunction.36:44  drummers playing one song bass players playing another. I love jazz music, but it's wild.36:49  So the bottom line is, when you're actually in agreement, you have less cognitive engagement, you have more brain power to do other things. I thought about this, because when you're really like, well, like when we scope like, when I'm scoping, you get into this flow state. And things are good, just, it's just things just your brain just goes. And37:08  so over the years, we've worked together now several, I mean, really, I think the first time that we worked together as in 2012, and in that time, we've seen certain technicians in the room, right, come through and and work with you right now. And we, you've had several great technicians. But over the years, I've seen us where maybe you didn't have the one that caused them not that they were bad, but one that didn't compliment the way that you scope, or the pace that we have in the room, something like that. And right now, we're really fortunate because pretty much every technician that we have right now is really, really, really good. That being said, interesting, that when we're all on the same page, and we can have a we can have a day with several patients, but we catch every problem. patients feel great. They wake up awesome. turnover. Time is awesome. And we're all37:58  we're never behind. Oh, all those things still happen regardless, but we're just smiling more in those days. Yeah.38:05  Thanks for a great day other than I'm out of here.38:08  You know, what's funny about that? Now, that really brings up a good point where I have, I have a lot of surgical friends that do really kind of like neurosurgeons and things. Yeah, and wow, at what I would consider now where I'm like, man, they're so sad. They gotta have that same anesthesiologist, they gotta have those texts, they gotta have that certain music going. They gotta have that. That's not OCD. That's them getting in sync.38:28  Yeah. But it's, but it's kind of a home, right? Because everyone's agreeing with this environment. This scenario, and I do that same thing with Eckhart, when I'm doing is eyes, you know, I mean, it's, we've got a great pace. But some of that, honestly, it's kind of overused term, it's kind of curated, right, we have a playlist that we listen to, that the patients will relax to, but it's good for us.38:50  Yeah, that's gonna be a whole separate thing about the what happens when, you know, you played certain music, and they'd like now now knowing that you can, like examine the brain while they're doing you don't have to be hooked up to things. I don't know how this test was done. So I just thought it was kind of interesting thing, I went down a rabbit hole where I'm very nervous about the possibility of varying degrees of long haul or symptoms. I don't like the term long haul. Because we've seen this with other viruses. I see it all the time. I mean, we've seen it with EBV, we've seen it with,39:19  which is really new. And we don't have enough data, especially because you said it from the very beginning. They got people who've been exhibiting these symptoms for three to six months. And if you look at the timescale for how long this has been out, that could technically be for as long as they've had the problem.39:34  And then if you're one of these people, you're like, Hey, you know what I had COVID and nothing's happened. So I'm sure I'm clear. That's cool. be on the safe side. Do the thing that we I was talking about eat functional foods. Take in polyphenols, avoid fasting. Yeah, avoid fast food. And, you know, if you do find yourself in an argument, and you're like, Hey, you know what, this person probably has a lot of brain inflammation. find some common ground, get a box of Atrantil set it there and be like we both need to calm down. I need to improve my microbiome and you need to block that neuro inflammation that's making you so mean towards me.40:06  Yeah, they'll totally be receptive if that's the first thing. I'm sure.You look angry.40:14  You look angry. Have you had your ? That should be a commercial? We do. Yeah. Two spouses fighting. Somebody shows up.40:21  I mean, anyone loves being told that it's your significant other The first thing out of your mouth, how was your day? You look angry. Everyone responds to that.40:31  You look like you. Your frontal posters. cerebral anterior cortex is not firing. And40:37  yeah, just start off with a cotton that just anything nice shoestrings today?40:42  Well, thank you find that common ground.40:44  Yeah, start start with the shoestrings and then see if we can grow from there.40:48  Alright, so you can disagree. So So the moral of this podcast is that, number one, find yourself in an argument, first of all, give somebody the benefit of the doubt that, hey, they could be having some inflammation going on in their brain. And if you've heard this podcast and understand that, then you can stop and go, Okay, now I understand that blood is being shunted someplace else. So it's going to be very difficult to continue this path. Let's take a second, find some common ground and start there and see if you can work your way back.41:14  It makes sense. And it doesn't have to just be COVID. If you have someone that's in your life, and you're they struggle with anxiety issues, and you always wonder kind of why they're on edge, it may not really be their fault.41:25  Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to the inflammatory process that's going on. And if you've got neuroinflammation because of God because of other things, it's from a science standpoint, it's always real you can I think it's easier to see the other person's perspective when you can, when it's easier for me to always understand somebody's perspective, if I can break it down to a soul level, you're short of breath, that means that your co2 is you know, like, I can go Okay, that's cool. I'm not gonna say why are you short of breath? We only ran one lap.42:04  Yeah, it's this is what's going on. It's so weird to say to somebody. Yeah, well, I think it's a really good point. And I'll, I'm gonna pull the curtain back here a little bit. And it's not exactly just an anxiety, inflammation of the brain. situation, however, it is a brain situation. And it was somebody who was close to me that started acting a little strangely. And for a while no one really knew. But my dad, who was always happy go lucky. For a brief period in his life, there was 24 months or so where he was irritable. And nobody really knew why, however, me included, everybody, unfortunately, hadn't had an exchange with my dad. This is several years ago, where we would probably have like an argument where I'm never even heard just the guy growing up, really. And it turns out, he had a brain tumor. And once we got a treated, and he was back to us back to, you know, normal dad. But oddly enough, I'm just thinking of situations where you just have to have enough empathy that if you feel like someone's on edge, I love the way you said it, give them the benefit of the doubt, find common ground. If you've always been running into recall, someone just find the common ground, because who knows, you may actually help them. You'll certainly get further in your conversation. And I wished it. Did I known that even back then. I mean, of course, it we were we were over it quickly, when we all figured out what was what was going on. But it was something that he couldn't control at all. And but yeah, it's worth giving someone a bit of a doubt.43:44  The brain is so fascinating to me, because when you say that he couldn't control it all whether it's a tumor or whether when people I was listening out, man, that fighter that's on Joe Rogan's most recent episode. Oh, what's his name is? Justin Ren. Justin read.44:01  Yeah. Is it just an idea? He does the in Uganda? Yeah.44:06  He does such an incredible job of explaining addiction and depression. He's been through it in a way that you're just like, Whoa, yeah, like I did not know it got like that. And even Joe was like that. I'm just the kind of guy that can walk away from things. And guess what, some people could have walked away from everything that he struggles to walk away from. It's just not how it worked for him. And it's how his brain is wired. And it helped him to understand he actually said that flat out he's like, once it was explained to me that I have less dopamine going on. And once I take this, it hits me different than it hits other people. And finally learning that allowed me to realize this is not a mind over willpower kind of thing. This is strictly when I do this. This is what's going to happen. If you're a diabetic. And I'm like, Eric, I got the greatest donut. You're gonna love it. It's amazing. And you look at that and go well, if I eat that my blood sugar will spike and I will end up Possibly, you know, an hyperglycaemic crisis. It's that makes sense, right? Yeah. But we never talked about the brain, we never say, oh, if you drink the day before, maybe the following day, you may end up with your GABA receptors depleted, and therefore you'll have increased anxiety. And that can lead to panic attacks. Yeah, things like that.45:19  My cousin, psychiatrist and years and decades ago, I remember him telling me that one of the most difficult things to deal with in psychiatry is that it's not like orthopedics, you can see a broken bone and want to fix it. You just can't see the brain, you just see the resulting things of people's behavior. And that's kind of hard, because it's all when you're little, you're told to behave, Oh, of course, behave, do the right thing. Whatever. If someone misbehaves so many times, it's attributed Well, they've chosen to act poorly. But maybe, maybe some things are just in a process of inflammation where they're making. Yeah, they're making bad decisions, but maybe they're arriving at the decision, not really, how they wanted to get there. And then, you know, we46:07  talked about what we've, I mean, CTE is a relatively new thing. But CTE is now showing up. And not just in football, it was discovered there. But now we're seeing in MMA fighters, which we thought MMA was safer than boxing, because, you know, you didn't get hit 20 times. But now we're seeing some of these fighters do some different things we talk about some of the very, you know, some very sad and horrific suicides, and some things like that have gone on with people that have had long careers in professional wrestling is one and that and you're just like, Whoa, and people want to block your players.46:39  Oh, really? Yeah. head butting? Oh, yeah, knocking that46:43  knocking the ball around. It's great. It's crazy. And so it all comes down to inflammation. And so it's it's sort of, it's sort of my life's mission, you know, the brain gut access, decrease the inflammatory process in the gut, and the brain and the same thing, and we can do it all the time. You know, increase your NRF two pathway, decrease your your TNF alpha, your interleukin sector and liquid ones. And those are those are fancy words for just saying, Let's stop the inflammatory process.47:09  Yeah, that's it. It's crazy. But it's all it's not it's all but so much of disease and chronic disease is just tied back to inescapable long term inflammation.47:20  And that's so good. Circling all the way back to the very first thing that I said the whole Wim Hof thing as I started reading about it, actually one of my patients who's suffering a lot from a multitude of symptoms, kind of like a systemic inflammatory process. And it's really kind of struggling to come out of it. And we've tried a lot of different things. He's like, he's like, Doc, it's like, I've been doing this thing called Wim Hof Method now for a couple months. And I was like, I'll try anything. And then as I started looking at it, it actually, because you control the parasympathetic system, which is the vagus nerve, which is the great highway from the gut to the brain, you actually do change the whole, well, I don't know the exact aspect. But if you're affecting the parasympathetic nervous system, you're going to decrease neuronal activity in areas that you don't want it to be hyperactive. So breathing, that's how come calming breathing increases parasympathetic, exhaling, and that's how come there's so much meditative yoga. And there's so many things like that there's a physiologic thing that goes on if you do it, right. Which also brings up an interesting point, because I just thought of this, just now, every time I've ever done yoga, like a yoga class, and I've done quite a bit, it's mainly just to kind of get it out of the way. It's like, I'm gonna go do my stretching thing. And when they say home, and they do this, and I had cognitive dissonance, I was like, I was gonna argue the fact we don't really need to make these weird sounds, can we just stretch? And now I just realized, and here I am, I did that. I went in there with a disagreeing attitude of why we have to do these other things I just wanted to get my stretch on. And I'm at fault for that. I just realized, I just noticed that there it is,49:03  you know, even when someone's intubated in surgery, in your right eye when you're applying the yoga and the humming or whatever, because basically, you're creating resistance for the air to leave the lungs, etc. The hyperinflation of the lungs. Well, guess what we do someone's intubated and we need a valsalva maneuver, we basically just hyper inflate the lungs, but we're just doing it mechanically. And it's because it's been proven time and time again that that is going to stimulate the vagus nerve and get the acetylcholine from the Vagus,49:34  man. See, this is what I liked that book so much. They went into that where they said that if you slow exhale while humming through your nose, you actually increase nitric49:44  oxide in the blood as well. Yeah, because you need the veza dilation to bring in blood that's been metabolized or the blood it's been bringing the metabolites co2 back to the lungs be breathed off. I mean, it just goes in that cycle over and over again. And it's kind of cool because this is This is really why I want to do this show, I think because later after you do some more Wim Hof, because I'm really curious on how they explain it to the layperson. Maybe we could lay down a little bit of physiology that way that if someone's sitting there, sitting on the edge of Wim Hof, or nesters ideas, we can actually show physiologically why what they're saying,50:20  actually makes a lot of sense. And there's a lot of science on this. I think that a lot of academic institutions have used him as a guinea pig because he allows it because he's not only a believer, he is the example he Yes, and then they can show all these different physiologic changes, but it's really cool. So like, I'm thinking, you know, practice, practice what we preach here. I don't know like next time I find myself in an argument with somebody have something locked and loaded, that you can agree on just so that you can almost like press the reset button. Possibly. Yeah. Oh, wait, hold on. I know that you're doing this. But if you're noticed, and then just something that's kind of that everybody will agree on me. Of course, everybody likes Jolly Ranchers. Yeah. You know, that's high fructose corn syrup. Yeah. I was just thinking of things that people would normally like. Yeah, normally.51:11  Yeah. Honestly, in today's climate, I don't know that there's any one thing other than you could say oxygen is good to breathe. And Sun is good most of the time.51:20  I know that the Lord is gonna call you up be like Eric, what happened? Every time that I want to tell him to go clean his room or something? He says that that don't you think that my hair looks pretty? It's it's become a weird tick. I51:35  think we need to scan as bright as the common51:39  that's common ground.51:40  Yeah. Well, man, awesome. Awesome. Surprise there. I love I love the topic.51:47  But we're good. We're gonna get sciency Yeah, we're gonna have some guests on that can can kick some knowledge on their books and on the on the research that they're doing?51:53  Yeah, keep an eye out for Olivia and Aiden to be joining the podcast here really, really soon. Sweet. I'm excited about that. And we're still not finished with the installments on on the immune system, literally. Keeping up with the email over the last episodes, as well as preparing for a couple of other things. Just the new year is etc. We've had a really bizarre shake up in our schedule at the info center. Whether we're full or not full of random times. There's news. Yeah, life still goes on here too. Hey, we52:26  got a new president of the United States.52:30  Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.52:32  So there was immediately executive orders, which were like, Oh my gosh, how's this gonna affect us? And52:36  did you know what we have to work? We still have to put gas in the car. So take care of the kids. Ultimately, all politics is still local. I still gotta be nice to everybody around the house. You know, you said52:48  you put in order gas in the car then kids and I know deep down USA stuff to work got to buy my Waterloo. Oh, Bill, the gas52:57  that's given. It's like taxes,52:59  Episode 48. So next time, if number one, hopefully you will never get COVID if you do get COVID and it's mild. Keep an eye out that there appears to be a low level inflammatory response which could lead to other things so control the inflammation by controlling your diet eating a very colorful plate. Top zinc Yeah, takes a vitamin D. The polyphenols in our trunk to have been shown to help with the innate immune system. See Episode 47 your sleep? Absolutely. pillars. So any parting words hurt53:30  now? Thank you all for for I mean, seriously, the the last two episodes the amount of email sharing. Thank you. Yeah, and I appreciate it.53:40  Yeah. So please, like subscribe, the usual stuff, share it. We want to try and get the word out and if there's any questions or anything, email them, we try to get to it. We have Angie Coker secret weapon who will find any article anywhere in the world at any hour.53:57  Yeah, he gets some sleep.54:01  All right. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye. It's54:02  Episode 48 till later

0:00  Hello, everyone, welcome to the gut check project gut check project fans, KBMD health  family, how are you doing? It is now time for episode number 47. I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. 0:13  What's up Episode 47. This is part two of our immunology. So this is I'm pretty excited. Because just this morning, you said you better check out Joe Rogan this morning because Dr. Mark Gordon is on there. And this dude was saying everything that we've been talking about, but I feel like we even have it to the next level. So we're talking to scientists that understand the whole concept of functional nutrition, functional things that I felt like he was saying, everything that we've been talking about now for quite a while like yours0:45  is no doubt the coolest thing is another thing that we'll we'll get to it in a moment. But it's it's all about eating right. having great nutrition, he used an incredible example of India, where Let's face it, a lot of people don't have the economic means that we do here in the United States. However, they're facing COVID, they have the same health issues that we do here, roughly, and they've got a large population. So when comparing apples to apples are talking about nutrition, and there's some specific things in that nutrition when you say,1:17  oh, and we're gonna get into that, in fact, I got an article here that we're gonna go over and I'll spoiler alert for you. But it's exactly what what what we're talking about right now. So we got some feedback. I apologize to everyone the last podcast we did, we were trying some unique things. And we didn't have such good sound quality, but that's what you get when your sponsor is lousy Lavalier comm so we had LousyLavalier.com Yeah, so we dropped them. And so I'm happy to announce that we got a new sponsor, which we did get a new sponsor, and this is awesome. It's actually a hot dog company. They're called diarrhea dogs. And their slogan is, we're not sure what's in the dog, but we know it will give you diarrhea. Yeah. who's who's betting our sponsor?2:05  The cool thing is, is it's a it's a host specific sponsor, so I'm looking for you to tell me how I2:11  know seriously, who in the company is? Is it Mike? is Mike getting sponsors for us, Mike, because I've already cashed a check. We got to keep talking about diarrhea dogs.2:18  It's, I can't this can't keep happening.2:20  We had lousy Lavalier as a sponsor, then we followed up with diarrhea dogs, yeah. Oh, my goodness,2:25  this is not working out.2:26  We're gonna have a little talk with Barry Weiss. How you been man?2:30  doing well, so we're into a brand new year now. What brief amount of time had a great vacation with the family? And it really just in time, right. I mean, there's, everything's kind of limited on what you can do. Yeah. But we it was, it's good to always have the older son come home spend time with him. We started building some furniture over the last couple weeks. So it's a great bonding experience with me and the boys. And of course, Maria is telling us what she wants us to look like. So trying hard to make it. Yeah. But you know, it's it's been a lot of fun. Mac is in the swing of basketball. And so life, normal life is starting to take on a new meaning. But it's it's good.3:09  Yeah. What about you? Well, for us, um, you know, the, the whole COVID lockdown, you start looking at your house a little bit. And so loida kind of convinced me that maybe we should start considering making a few little changes. And it started out with the master bath. And she's like, you know, shoot, can I do a few other things? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. So I'm really busy with work and come back. And then you know, next thing I know, the builders or the contractors there and he's like, Look, okay, so this is what we've designed. Here's the plans, bla bla bla bla bla, and, you know, he's like, we're gonna buy the neighbor's house and we're gonna, you know, tear, tear this one down. But I mean, it was just I'm like, Whoa, we're doing a lot of work here. So I'm already in it. We're gonna be in this house for a long time. It's a great area. You notice everybody's moving to Texas. They definitely dragons bringing everybody down here. So following him. So at3:54  any point, did you have a spreadsheet that said, redo house or simply burn house?4:01  Well, then it's like one of those shows. Like once you see the plans, you're like, Oh, yeah, I want it to look like that. But you know, and oh, guess what I did today was that guess what I did? 30 seconds ago. Oh,4:12  I know what you did? Yeah, you got into crypto.4:15  So as we're setting up to do this show, we started having a conversation about cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and people have been telling me to get involved. So in a spur of the moment, while Eric was setting up the mics and everything I bought some Bitcoin Yeah, go Bitcoin.4:29  Yeah. And and we need to probably have a disclaimer that we know nothing about cryptocurrency. Oh, absolutely. Nothing nice. But yeah, it was really kind of cool to watch you do it.4:36  Yeah. So we've covered our sponsors. A little word with the person that's choosing them in the future. And so let's jump into the immune episode part two. So even if the audio is a little bit off on that last one, I encourage everyone to look at our last podcast, because I do a detailed explanation in or at least detailed for a simple country butt Dr. That's living in Texas for the innate immune system, and I actually rewatched it when we were getting the comments great information, audio bad. And at the very end, I go, so that covers the adaptive immune system. I'm like, No, I should have no it was the innate, we did not cover the adaptive yet. There's a reason why that's coming, because then we're going to lead into the vaccinations for COVID and things. Right. So that was the innate. But here's what's really cool. We're gonna talk about what Dr. Mark Gordon was talking about on Joe show. And it's super cool. Like we've been on top of this the whole time. It's been it's it's actually huge, huge news for everyone.5:36  I think a lot of people can learn a lot about what they can do just to protect themselves. And let's small preface, you don't have to just apply the knowledge that you'll pick up today to COVID. COVID actually can begin to fit into other viruses with this talk that we're going to have today.5:52  Yes. And specifically, this is not a COVID talk. We're not saying that at all. What we're saying is we're gonna talk about how to optimize a well running immune system. Yeah. And so when I talked to some of my colleagues and people discuss different things, Angie, and I were talking that she's like, have you looked at our Mendeley account? So Mendeley is where we put all our articles, and I just did a quick look. We have over 1000 articles regarding immune health and how to optimize it through nutrition and lifestyle. Yeah. So even that is science backed. Everything we're talking about here is completely science backed. In fact, one of the things I wanted to discuss because I think it's really cool is this article that just came out in 2020. It's called the antiviral functional foods and exercise, lifestyle prevention of Coronavirus. That's a very boring title. And those are the kinds of things that I read. And it was published in the Journal of nutrients. What's fascinating about this is that they discuss the things that other people are now just finally starting to talk about. Yeah, so I want to review this article really quick. Then I want to get back to the whiteboard. And hopefully sound a little bit better.7:06  We're gonna use headphones today.7:07  Yeah, we're gonna try and use headphones. I got a new mic attached to a hemorrhoid bander because I feel very comfortable holding hemorrhoid banders. Yeah, so that is dry tone right there. That is right there. 7:20  that's almost as good as the Bob Barker microphone from the remember the little skinny one that he had on7:28  the show? Yeah, when they tell you to go spay and neuter your dog.7:31  Yeah. spay and neuter your dog spin the wheel. Drive. I can't wait. I had a hard time of that. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Great show.7:37  So basically, on this article, it's really interesting. Not actually not interesting. For us. It was it just reiterated everything that we've kind of base talking about. What they looked into was functional foods. They called it functional foods, and physical exercise. So the exercise part was a brief part than 90% of the article was talking about functional foods, which they described as functional foods being polyphenols.8:02  Incredible.8:02  So the functional foods are polyphenols because of the various mechanisms that they do in the body. We got contacted by an author of the sirt diet. That's sirtuins. And he noticed that we've been talking about polyphenols and said, Wow, you guys are on that. So the whole thing about Adele's diet that she lost all that weight, that's called the sirtuin diet or the sirt diet. And then I've watched it on Dr. Oz. And I was like, there's something about polyphenols, polyphenols. And the reason why is you're gonna see on this whiteboard, how many different ways a functional food like a poly phenol can benefit you definitely. And so the cert diet just means that you turn on certain genes, it's an epigenetic thing. So really quick on the exercise. No big surprise, as it turns out, exercise is pretty good for you. Sure. So they looked at different aspects of it. And what it does do is it does activate natural killer cells, and will induce monocytes to become antigen presenting cells like dendritic cells. If you go I don't know what that is. We talked about that on the last episode. And we're going to get to it again here. So don't worry. That being said, super extreme exercise, which we have talked about this can actually lower your immune system. So many times when people train super hard, and we're talking about like, marathons and triathlons and marathon running. I've had so many patients that get very sick after they really train for something, they go all out, and then they get sick. And it's because I didn't even realize this, that you produce so many reactive oxygen species. This damages cells, which leads to inflammation, you're gonna hear this term over and over again. And then it actually adversely affects your white blood cells ability to fight off infections. Yeah. So the real idea is that regular exercise is really good for you. It gets rid of old immune cells that don't work very well. And you actually stimulate young healthy cells that can actually have a young, healthier immune system. It has been shown that highly conditioned athletes have a much better functioning innate immune system, as opposed to sedentary people. Yeah. So when we're sitting in a viral season, and if you're sedentary and you're overweight, and you got diabetes and high blood pressure, your immune system doesn't work as well. And there's reasons for this in this paper. So then they kind of went through that they're like, yeah, okay, so exercise is good. And then they go into 90% of the rest of the article is discussing polyphenols and the multiple areas that these functional foods benefit our immune system. Okay. And, oh, we're probably jumping ahead. What's a polyphenol?10:40  Oh, what is it polyphenol? Yeah, tell everybody what a polyphenol islittle compounds that are found. And fruits and vegetables. Generally they are what can be responsible for the coloration that's inside those fruits and vegetables. And they they're naturally occurring. Some of them are large, or small. But in essence, our bodies love them.10:59  Absolutely. So I always refer to them as mother nature's secret weapon. This particular article goes into great detail about how the flavonoids, terpenoids alkaloids in the polyphenols, so they can go into that are actually bio active, they can influence genes have peptide qualities, and are broken down by our microbiome into potent anti aging, anti inflammatory, anti cancer metabolites.11:25  Right. You know, I was thinking about this, how do we bring validation to this part of this study, or the I'm sorry, the discussion, I guess, whenever we're talking about this to people, because I started thinking about, if someone years ago when you were when you were young, and someone said, you probably need more calcium to make your bones strong, you didn't just go to the store and buy sack of calcium, you generally just started drinking more milk or something similar. Or if you were an athlete, and you knew that you needed to make sure that you didn't get cramps, you ate bananas, or ate spinach, all of that stuff, you didn't go and just buy the little element, those elements are naturally occurring in something that you're eating or drinking. That's essentially what we're trying to talk about with polyphenols is there are small little things in there that your body craves, just like your bones want calcium, the these are the vehicles, these are the foods that will deliver what your body wants to maintain health and keep you healthy 100%. And they mentioned how versatile polyphenols are.12:24  Oh yeah, meaning they function in many different ways. Number one, they can have potential influence on your gut barrier, where they improve the immune system of the gut barrier, the first portion of that, then they actually have epigenetic phenomenon. Most important is that your microbiome will break these things down to beneficial products. And that's going to be something that we've talked about post biotics before, I'm very excited. We've contacted this a PhD in Argentina, who has one of the most amazing articles describing the post biotic effect. And they actually demonstrate that the larger, more complex polyphenol is the best way to consume it. In other words, yeah, you don't want to take the one little molecule. So that's pretty much what they said about polyphenols, because we're gonna talk a lot more about that. And then it kind of like briefly go over Oh, and then there's vitamin D, which is pretty good for y'all. So vitamin D deserves its own show, because it's more like a hormone than it is like a vitamin here. And then they look at a couple other things like vitamin C and stuff, and they kind of gloss over it. And then they come back to the polyphenols. And they're like, and then they reference to the viruses. And they show how there's so much information out there about how these polyphenols actually influence the destruction of multiple viruses like influenza, Zika, virus, HSV, and Corona.13:45  And there's a mechanism to and there's13:47  a mechanism for each one of these. So the conclusion is, and this is, I hate to say Joe Rogan, for the third time in about first five minutes, it'll validate what we say. He's always said, why aren't we discussing ways to improve our immune system, prevent ourselves and do this, these guys end the whole article, and by the way, it's thick 20, some pages with references and everything they end it with the conclusion is, this is a pretty cheap and simple way to improve your immune system or optimize, get some exercise, eat some polyphenols and get a little sun. Yeah, that was the combination of it. All right. And and these people put a lot of work into that. And that that's a spoiler alert.14:31  I think I might have said though it's really, really important is that there's a lot of work. There's a lot of research, there's a lot to take in here. However the solution if you really think about it, it isn't that difficult to adhere to this to keep to keep people healthy. That's actually the coolest part. The summary of it all is polyphenol, sleep exercise. You're off to an incredible start just with that and don't i don't think you should shy away from Rogan at all. He supports tons of other podcasts gives huge mentions to other people. They're doing the same thing. When I heard Dr. Mark on this morning with him, I just I liked it because it not only was somebody else talking about the same subject, but he was doing it in such detail that we like to talk about it, that I encourage you, we're not the only ones who have this level of research and are seeing these kinds of results with people.15:22  Oh, it's so cool. And now because we're in these circles with these PhDs, I'm getting preliminary data on different studies where it's humans, where they're looking at what I'm going to talk about here. Yeah. So what I thought we could do is try and do round two, you put some headphones on, 15:37  I'm going to have to,15:38  I'm going to grab my Bob Barker mic right here. I'm going to turn this one15:46  that was kind of quiet. And now I'm going to come back like this. There he is. This is why we have headphones. This is15:52  why we have headphones. And now I'm going to switch the cameraprobably should have you looked at the computer to make sure that I'm in focus and everything. And now, let's do a recap of the last. And that's not a window of the last podcast that we did. This is a kind of quicker version of what we did. And this is to get everybody up to speed because when we talk about polyphenols, we need to make sure that you understand exactly what's going on and why there are functional food. So just to recap, the innate immune system is your response to any type of damage, whether that damage is through physical damage, whether that damage is through infection, whether that damage is through repeated poor diet choices, your body is going to try and repair itself. So let's walk through what happens. The first step, step one, let's just assume that you have an infection. If you have a virus or bacteria, what it will do is it will attack a cell. So that cell no matter what it is, sounds an alarm. And it notifies its neighbor, which is kind of its bodyguard, the mast cell. The mast cell then releases what is called braided cinan. This is really neat, because if you ever sprained an ankle or done anything, this is what's going on. The braided cinan send different proteins or cytokines to the blood vessel. First step is the blood vessel. And what it does is it actually normally the blood vessels have very tight seals, what it does is the blood vessels pull apart a little bit to allow fluid to come out. Well, the reason for that is is that you want the swelling to contain whatever's going on. You sprained an ankle, you go oh my gosh, look at my ankle, it's so swollen, well, it's there for a reason, because that fluid is trying to concentrate what your body needs in the same area. So the fluid starts coming out step to these braded cinan, and different other cytokines send up little flags, just like Velcro sticks. And these are called intercellular adhesion molecules. And what they do is they grab white blood cells that are swimming by so these white blood cells have these little hooks and they get hit and they stop and they go, Oh, what's going on all the fluids going out that way, I'm gonna go out that way. So then the white blood cells join this little party over here. This is what ends up causing redness, swelling and pain anytime you have any type of infection, anytime you have any type of injury. So now we have these white blood cells, what they do is they go, Oh, that mast cell told us to go that way. And so the white blood cells head over to what's going on. And then this allows your body to fight the intruder that's doing this. So that's step one. So now these white blood cells come around. You heard me say in that other study the antigen presenting cells. So one of these types of cells, which is a phagocyte, will actually first thing it does is it swallows the invader, bacteria, virus, fungus, whatever it is, swallows it, and the reason why does it it digests it, and then it breaks it apart and goes, Okay, this is what it looks like. So it puts wanted posters on its outside. So this guy said, I know what's attacking us now, this, this guy right here. So these antigen presenting cells, put it on the outside, and then they do something else. They release cytokines, specifically, multiple cytokines, but the important ones are TNF alpha, interleukin six, interleukin one, interleukin eight, and you're going to hear a lot more about this, because I'm talking to scientists all over the world. And people are now studying specifically how we can use functional foods to control this response. So TNF alpha, does a lot of things. It's a pro inflammatory cytokine. And so we know that TNF alpha is used in very expensive drugs block that for rheumatory arthritis for Crohn's disease for ulcerative colitis for all of that. So TNF alpha does something kind of interesting that I found unique is it actually goes to the hypothalamus and it increases your core body temperature. So when I say these are bad, they're really good for you in small amounts, it's when it becomes too much that it becomes bad. So TNF alpha hits the hypothalamus increases, and that's how you get fever, interleukin six, it goes to the bone marrow and increases the white blood cells. So this is why you have that achy feeling if you've ever had the flu, or if you're gonna get a vaccine, and you go, Oh, my gosh, I had a vaccine, that kind of hurt, I feel like I have a low level flu. It's because the bone marrow is producing more white blood cells. interleukin one goes to the liver to produce acute inflammatory reactance, which goes into something called the complement system. But that inflammation is what we measure in people. In fact, cardiologists use this all the time they look at C reactive protein, yeah, because when you have inflammation, the liver produces this. So people with coronary disease will have increased levels of that, and then interleukin eight.Fascinating, it basically produces more of those little Velcro hands. So then we come all the way back to the blood vessel. And now we've got dilation, fluid coming out. And every white blood cell that's coming through gets grabbed. So when you have the white blood cells producing here, you've got the fever, which increases the amount of blood flow heart rate is faster, everything. It's an phenomenal and just beautiful little system. Yeah, it is. And when it works great. It's exactly what we need. It's exactly what you need. In the acute phase. Definitely the innate immune system is here to protect you in the first phase. So now step three of the innate immune system out of you, but that's the antigen presenting cell, the one that we were talking about over here, sometimes they sometimes they get overwhelmed, and the virus actually wins. So the poor little guy dies. It's that's a good cartoon. Yeah, so the poor guy dies here. So the antigen presenting cell dies. So it leaves rubble, so it's comes out and the body even gets that. So reactive oxygen species are left behind, that's known as oxidative stress. That's good in small amounts, because that will kill other things around it. Assuming that this guy got overwhelmed when he dies. Maybe other cells are being overwhelmed, and then that oxidative stress will kill it. Yep. This is known as a reactive oxygen species or reactive nitrogen species. But when that goes on for a long time, that's what actually causes chronic disease, like heart disease, cancer, aging, this is actually why we age, reactive oxygen species, autoimmune disease, dementia and obesity. Nobody ever thought that you can become fat because you have low level chronic inflammation. And I've talked about this on other episodes. 22:56  Definitely.22:57   So final step here is the thing you didn't know about, which is the toll like receptors, right? Okay, so toll like receptors is just another layer of defense, where if these toll like receptors are actually activated, they do very specific things. For instance, the toll like receptor number seven, is very specific to release certain things to fight RNA viruses. You can go through these others, there are ones that are built to fight bacteria that are flageolets flageolets. Yeah, I think we're both saying that wrong, but that's okay. fragilities, flageilities. And they also do something that we have talked about before, I want to say we talked about it. On at least three episodes, I can think of the epigenetic phenomenon of nuclear factor Kappa beta NFKB. So when the toll like receptors turned on NFKB goes up. And NFKB is the one that we talked about with the broccoli episode, right? with David Roberts and john gilday. On Yeah, this is the one that actually has a what's called plio trophic phenomenon. So it affects many different things. So when NF Kappa beta is turned on, then you go through a huge surge of our old friends, TNF alpha, interleukin six, right? So he has more inflammation with inflammation, the common theme of inflammation, right? So inflammation, what does inflammation lead to? Oh, this dementia, autoimmune aging, cancer, heart attack na, so this innate immune system is here. The other thing that I did not mention was that when the toll like receptors get turned on, like this toll like receptor number seven, which is for viruses, one of the things that releases is interferons. interferons, actually, are molecules that directly destroy cells that have been infected with viruses. So if you were to get a virus, you breathe it in through your nose, let's say it goes to your lungs, a cell is being attacked, it can actually send a signal to a healthy cell says We're under attack, you need to be ready for this. And that's the little cell that waits with a gun at the door. So when the virus rings, the doorbell goes and shoots it. That's not proper technique and how you shoot it. We've25:21  seen actual footage of this going down at a microscopic level. So yeah,25:24  it's it's fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. It's like watching an old Western, just like oh, my gosh, and the. And it's totally true. Because the viruses that show up, they always wear black hats every time every time. Yeah. So that's a recap of very quick recap of what we talked about last episode. Yeah, I get it a little bit more detail. How's it? How's the sound quality?25:47  The sound is much better than last time.25:49  Okay, good. So hopefully, we'll continue with this. So how do we describe how functional foods work? Because our big thing last time was improve your immune system do this, but nobody talks about how, why?26:05  I've got a question for you. So when we look at this, and I think this is a reasonable question, you look at it, and we're talking about all the bad manifestations that happen. When there's too much TNF alpha, or aisle six or aisle one, we have too much row s, or I'm sorry, reactive oxygenation, species, ultimately, too much inflammation. But I needed all of this to happen. So, Dr. Brown, what is it that I'm missing? That would help me not have the system that I need? That keeps me alive and safe, run out of control? And basically, ultimately destroy me anyhow?26:42  Absolutely. So what we're talking about is how do you optimize? Yeah, well, running immune system. Definitely. One of the theories right now is that why do younger people not get sick with the current virus that's going around, is because they have a very good innate immune system. As we age, as I mentioned, as we age or you become sedentary, possibly, this happens. And so you go, Oh, well, I still don't get that. We'll imagine this. Imagine quietly, this attack happens, virus, bacteria, anything, and your innate immune system is kind of slow to react. And by the time it realizes, Oh, my gosh, something's going on. Many cells have been infected. Which means when these cytokines go up, it's a huge amount. If you have a really healthy innate immune system, you catch it at the first cell. Yep. So let's talk about functional foods. functional foods, functional foods, polyphenols, so I'm going to use these little brand. These little hexagons. Yeah. Demonstrate functional six added. Yes. Excited. Whatever you go.27:50  All right. Now hexagon, you're27:52  right. This is all based off of science. All based off of very detailed documented, I want to thank every PhD out there who goes through this kind of trouble and probably gets no recognition. Because this is Sony. And, you know, we're talking about so when Dr. Mark Gordon was on his show today, he didn't really understand why course it's an or why tumeric does this. Let's talk about that. Let's do that. All right, step one. So this will represent the different stages that it actually happens. Step one, intestinal gut health, intestinal gut health, that's your first barrier. Anything that comes in, you're going to make sure that you have a good healthy working gut, healthy work in gut. Step two. We know that it has potent antiviral activity. I mentioned earlier in the other article about how these functional foods can actually destroy viruses on contact.28:52  So we've got gut and the virus itself.28:54  antivirus itself step. If the virus makes it past that, inside the cell itself, is the M protease that allows the virus but bacteria do this also. It has to attach to the cell. Well, what does it do? It prevents it from attaching then, oh my gosh, this is a really tough virus and it made it through all these lines of defense already. Yeah. Well, as it turns out, bunch of foods polyphenols actually work zinc Ionafores and prevent the replication29:35  Hmm. Blocking replicase 29:37  replicase correct. Nice actually blocks the replication.29:42  So So right now we have four tags up and we're still on number one of the innate immune system. That's29:47  why it's so important to understand the innate immune system. Yes. And why nobody's talking about this. I'm going to keep going. Yeah, and this is not once again, this is not my opinion. Yeah. We've got 1000 articles to To show all of it, right? Okay, so now we got our friend, the mast cell over here and everything that I'm saying is not an on or off switch, it's the optimized way to do it. If your body needs it, these functional foods help it ramp it up. If it doesn't, it does it. Alright, so the mast cell that releases the braided cinans that go to the blood vessel, oh, the mast cell actually gets stabilized by functional foods, polyphenols, nice. So it doesn't overreact or under react, then it's almost like, really, truly Mother Nature's secret weapon, then the blood vessels which release the fluids, there's something called or I forgot what the actual enzyme is, but it actually attenuates the enzyme that creates the leakage. So it controls the amount of fluid that comes out. And in the same line, what it does is it actually controls the amount of the adhesion molecules, so all those little hooks that grab that, right, it actually does the optimum amount for that. Okay. So getting back, this is why Dr. Mark Gordon was like, Oh, we have shown that it helps with inflammation, I'm going to tell you exactly where it helps, right whole pathway. Okay, so we've now blocked the little adhesion molecules so that only the right amount of cells come out, only the right amount of cells come out. And remember, when I said that it monocytes become our antigen presenting cells, it helps them mature. Oh, it's like steroids for those guys.31:35  So it activates them. It's a growth hormone, right? So we're allowing these phagocytes to now do their role. And by having the right amount of polyphenols available, it's going to do it quicker.31:45  Exactly. So we're now heading to step two. So what does it do? Oh, yeah. It helps the antigen presenting cells, taking the vacuoles and put those different proteins on the outside quicker, because it's already made these more mature. And then we get to the real important part, it tells the antigen presenting cell, yo, be a little careful how many cytokines you send out. Hmm. So there's multiple studies looking at each one of these. And so I'll do this real quick. While you're32:19  putting those up there, I'll just add that Dr. Gordon spoke today specifically about how high circulating cytokines lead to insomnia and an inability to rest enough because it causes neural inflammation, which is just building on it. That's32:33  right. He did, he talked to specifically about that. And that's that brain gut connection and percent inflammation, that's what we always talk about. So as it turns out, it tells the antigen presenting cell, Hey, be careful what you do, then just to make sure as another safeguard, it specifically will control how much TNF alpha, how much interleukin six, how much interleukin one and how much interleukin eight is actually necessary. And these are all documented on specific studies. And I know that these are being done in humans right now, because I'm getting preliminary results. And they're showing very specific in vivo, meaning people that have this kind of situation, actually decrease these different cytokines. So it's not just a total decrease. It's the right amount. So if you need more white blood cells, then there's no reason to shut it off completely. Right. Like we just can't You can't be smarter than Mother Nature. Yeah, comes down to Okay, how am I sounding sound good. All right. Now, let's go to it's a lot better than last week. So so let's go to Step three, the antigen presenting cells that do this, also do another job, briefly, which we will get into in some other episode, or will bring a better person to do it. Some of those cells go to the lymph system, where they then activate the adaptive immune system where they form antibodies.33:56  Very, very important,33:58  relevant right now, because if everybody's running out getting a vaccine, that's what you're working on worthless unless you have this optimal.34:04  Yeah. 100%.34:06  So we won't get into that. But guess what functional foods polyphenols do?34:10  Oh, you don't even tell me that. They also work on that side. They also work on that. It's almost like your body wants polyphenols.34:16  It's almost like your body wants polyphenols. And of course, while we're at it, I mean, it's like it's almost like no, no, now he's just going overboard. No, no, I mean, it's, trust me, I read every article. It's like I feel like I'm making stuff up. Now. It helps produce interferons. It helps control the toll like receptors.34:43  So means you're just a side note. interferon if anybody's ever dealt with early stage, melanoma, I mean, there are various cancers that you actually had to end up getting injections for interferon.34:54  I did I really thought you're gonna go if anybody's ever dealt with herpes. Now I'm dead serious. Yeah, like Libya isn't interferon?35:02  Absolutely. It isn't interferon. I'm just saying I guess what I was going is, is that35:07  if you've ever dealt with herpes, you kind of looked at me like, no.35:11  That's how I felt.35:16  But this is true. So drugs do this. You're exactly right. chemo drugs and drugs like a cycle of beer. They're their interferons. Yeah, because they block viruses. So polyphenols help increase the amount of interference when it's necessary. Correct. And by blocking the toll like receptors and controlling that. They actually decrease nuclear factor Kappa beta nfkb. We had that talk with Brocelite. So polyphenols and sulforaphane block, NF Kappa beta. So35:46  I was making sure that you're making contact with the people in the room. Do you think I was I was waving over somewhere else?35:52  I thought you were having a hallucination. So all right, so we blocked NF Kappa beta, which ultimately we know does the most major thing inflammation. So we've been saying a long time that the Mediterranean diet is an anti aging, anti inflammatory diet. Yes. This is why when Adele did her sert diet, this is why it works. You decrease overall inflammation, definitely the whole process. And because, oh, I skipped a little step here. But one thing that we always talk about is the potent antioxidant effects.36:33  Yeah, I'm glad you're getting this part because we're going to augment this little section here, too.36:37  Yeah. So tell me what you got to say about antioxidant.36:39  What is it immediately takes me back because ROS is something that Joe botel and we've referenced her on the show multiple times. But when she was talking specifically about long endurance athletes and how they get injury, and how certain people who are high performance athletes get injured and have a difficult time recovering, it's often because they don't have good control of their RMS or reactive oxygenation species. you're pointing at something, but I'm not on camera. Oh, I am now. So there we go. I didn't know that. There's no red lights in here, by the way. But I find that to be a really big key aspect about rlms. And what polyphenols do because she specifically said to it to decrease healing time and increase optimal athletic performance, high polyphenol concentration, or normal amount is a must, and that our bodies are simply waiting on enough polyphenols to do this job.37:34  Yes. 100%. So now the final part here is more of a vague, you get a picture camera now to fix the camera. You can't take me by surprise anymore. I mean, we can hire Mike to find our to find our podcast sponsors, but we can't even hire a good audio visual guy.37:50  I don't think that hot dog company comes with that.37:56  Alright, so we get down to this last thing here, which is chronic disease. So what we talked about low level inflammation. This is how you can protect yourself against heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia and obesity. And I put this one up as a general one, because we mentioned it a little bit, I want to talk about it right after this, about how large stable polyphenols I found an article that showed the more hydroxyl bonds on the outside, more beneficial is. That's why when we initially were developing Atrantil, and Dr. Bruce Burnett looked at this and said you picked the perfect poly phenol to be the most bioactive and most diverse.38:37  That's all he does. There's there's more points to do stuff. It's like more surfaces. It's more38:41  surface area. Exactly. And then in addition to that, we know that in all these articles, so if you're somebody you're like, Oh, I already take tumeric. I already take quercetin and that's awesome. Keep doing that. Yeah, keep doing that. But you have to understand something tumeric and quercetin don't get directly absorbed, they actually have to go to the microbiome where they get broken down into the metabolites. I've got articles to show what is the effective metabolite, of quercetin. So when Dr. Mark was talking about that, I want to tell him, that's awesome. But you better make sure that you have a good microbiome. So what this represents is the prebiotic ability of polyphenols to diversify your microbiome so that when you take these things, you're getting the appropriate we're gonna call them the appropriate metabolites. I call them post biotics, but we're gonna call him the appropriate metabolite.39:31  It's a honestly it's kind of like if, if you look at the way that he talked about ecgc, and, and tumeric, and trying to enforce it and etc. He broke all those down and talked about their beneficial natures as it pertains to inflammation. But what you're describing, if I can kind of put it into layman's terms, it's almost as if that is great. And you can get an Uber to have that delivered to somewhere and you hope it's a great car and you hope It gets you there comfortably. But in order for it to be effective and get there on time you want a private car you want the limousine. The limousine is the larger molecule, the all natural, larger parent molecule, if you will, kind of like what's in Atrantil and abbraccio to do that,40:17  exactly. So what you want to be able to do and what we're saying is not just supplements. Now, this is why you want to have a very colorful plate. That's why you want to have lots of fruits and vegetables. Yeah, continue to do that. Try to do every non GMO foods and vegetables. But when we're talking about polyphenols, very few things concentrate polyphenols, so when you're like, Oh, I heard Dr. Oz talked about reservatrol polyphenol. Oh, I heard someone so talk about Kirsten, polyphenol. Oh, but you know what? I drink green tea, polyphenol. Yeah. And they all get broken down. Here's what's fascinating. And I can't wait to do this. When we have Dr. Sylvia on her research is showing that you can produce quercetin egcg, which is green tea extract. You can produce the metabolites of curcumin and all these things from larger tannins. Yeah, that's what I mean, this is so fascinating, and your body knows how to do it. And you know what? I mean? Do me a favor, when you get done watching this, go to COVID? episode number two, because we did that in March. Yeah. And we were right, because we talked to scientists all the time. We're always doing this. So Sofia said, You know what, I'm gonna challenge you not to we will share the mic even though the You and I both been tested, like yesterday. Yeah, for COVID and we're negative, can you walk through and just explain what each one of these days does really quick, 41:30  I'm going to try Okay, so that a right there is going to prevent the virus itself that a if there's for the gut microbiome, that a I believe is going to prevent it from binding to that set of cells, that one is going to function as a zincionafor prevent or allowing zinc to go in and stop the replicates that is a mast cell that's going to help control the number of goodness gracious, I guess those little inflammatory markers that are going to go to the blood vessel braided cinans kind of There you go, and then be circulated which of course, we're going to regulate the amount of fluid that's going to leave the bloodstream and we're going to stop the amount of flags are gonna pop up as appropriate. Orders one, Oh, that one is a phagocytes, that's going to improve the the maturation of the phagocytes the one just below it is going to help the phagocytes since they are maturing more quickly, it's going to allow the them to display quicker and then it's going to regulate the number of cytokines which is TNF alpha, IL six, IL one and il eight. And I don't know if I'm gonna go through the mechanisms of those but that's okay. Oh, yeah, good, quick. TNF. Alpha is for the brain. IL six is for the bone and it's because of white blood cell maturation IL one is for infection and inflammatory things that come from the liver and i l eight, is what is going to basically start the cycle all over again, where the fluid is, is being summoned and redness, swelling and pain.42:55  Excellent. Stage three.42:56  Okay, that's the presenting. Yeah, it is. And that's where the cells dying, we get to oxygen a oxidative stress. Yeah, it says that. But we need to control our ros because it's not the RO S is bad. Too much ros, though, can lead to long term heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia, obesity, and adaptive antibodies, we aren't going to go all the way through there. But essentially, aside from the innate immune system, we need help in the adaptive immune system as well.43:28  It would be fascinating to see what the antibody levels of people that are vaccinated if you're scientists out there on your on your cool study will supply you with some big polyphenols and see if people mount a better antibody response. If it lasts longer. These are all just fascinating questions. What's this?43:45  So when we get over here to TLR, we this is what is going to function as another flag zone, where we're going to signal the liver to then produce interferon, which functions to fight cancers and all kinds of different things like that. And then we have NF kb. We've talked about this extensively, whenever we had Brock elite on the show, both john and David was gonna say, Robert, but it's David Roberts on the show. And essentially, what we want to do is not have this gigantic burst of TNF alpha, and IL six because it's just going to turn into more inflammation. And again, Polly finos once again, aren't going to abandon you. They're still going to work even on that end. Okay.44:32  You're so much smarter than I thought you were. Nice job.44:36  I just remember a lot.44:38  Can you hear me on this one?44:39  Yeah, yeah, that was never good.44:41  You can probably take the headphones off now to show everybody. So did that make sense? I44:47  think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's a lot of information. Not everybody is going to just readily walk away, like we just did from it, but watch it several times. I think though, really what we're trying to show here is that We don't want to just say that we don't want to just say that polyphenols they'll work with with viral or bacterial infection. This is something that I wish more people would do you tell me that something works. Just explain how show me how how do you know that it's going to work? And I'm not saying that people don't have markers or blood enzymes or circulating things that they measure, they see things go down. That's important that lets you know that we're on the right track. But this kind of stuff, this kind of research that you've been sifting through with Angie, is just awesome. Because now it's almost like putting a name to the face. We can see how it's working. Exactly. So I think it's important. 45:41  And this doesn't just stop here because you know, Angie's episode, people, it's really being shared a lot. Oh, yeah, just people if you have pots or Ehlers danlos or CBOE or anything, people thousands of downloads on the podcast, by the way. Yeah. And she describes how when you have NF Kappa beta up, yeah, you're gonna have decreased acetylcholine when TNF alpha like this is all the balance in that. Yeah. The key is to see the colon whenever Yeah, but that's a whole separate conversation. This is strictly on the innate immune system, right. And so I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating that when I listen to another doctor talk about this, and I'm like that I very much like, very much like me, like, I'll listen to stuff and the patients will ask me, they're like, hey, do you know about this? And I'm like, I don't have the bandwidth and the time to do it. That's awesome, which is why I kind of tasked or I didn't task. She did it on her own, which is why Angie learned so much about dysautonomia, like I just don't have that in me right now or the time to do it. And she crushed it. Yeah. And one of the what we've been emailing, she's been emailed by so many people, she's gonna keep going, she's gonna end up writing a book and probably saving a lot of people. And so this is this is first step, innate immune system. I tell all my patients, let's exercise a little I don't care what you do, just get up off the couch and move around, right? Doesn't really matter what, don't eat highly processed foods, like high fructose corn syrup, soybean oil, anything, you're open in a package, read the label, because that breaks down that Mary, Mary Mary first step, which is gut health. All health begins and ends in the gut, definitely. And then get your polyphenols, get a little sun, get some sleep. Do you do that? That's better than what's better than most are doing.47:32  I mean, it really is. And it's, it seems complicated. And but in the end, the actionable items really aren't that complicated.47:41  I mean, when we're in some weird times, I mean, let's be honest, we're taping this episode. The day after we had that weird thing that happened last night or yesterday where47:51  you didn't get your change back at the store. I didn't47:53  get my change back. I'm still upset about that. The lady was clearly distracted, because apparently our government was overrun by48:02  Oh, yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah.48:05  And so these are stressful times. Yeah, we got to keep the inflammation down. There's nothing to cause inflammation. Yeah, don't, don't bring it upon yourself. Don't eat bad. Don't lose sleep, and make sure that you get your polyphenols.48:17  To my knowledge, polyphenols won't directly help bad politics, but maybe those politicians could use some more polyphenols and they wouldn't act so crazy.48:26  Oh my gosh, don't even get me started. Because what I want to do, and I believe that this will be the future we're gonna be sitting here 50 years from now we're gonna look the same because of the anti aging qualities of polyphenols. The 50 years from now we're gonna be like, wasn't that great that they put psilocybin in the water so that we all treat each other nice. You know? It's so you're just gonna pull up instead of Starbucks, you're gonna pull up to MDMA cafes? And I'm not kidding. Like the research on that is like, we're gonna go there also. Yeah, there. Somebody joined at baby bathwater Dr. Raven, I was reading his profile, really cool. And we're gonna I'm gonna try to bring him on here. But he's got a device called an Apollo device, which vibrates when you're not breathing appropriately, which means if and we're gonna do a whole episode on breath work, and we got our we just got all kinds of cool stuff to do. But you can't, you can't leave this hanging like, this is important. Look at all those. Look at all those one last time here. Let's just look at the amount of places.49:29  Places I'm just counting right now. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 19 20 looks like there's almost 20 things out there49:40  that I found in a guy like Bruce Burnett, sitting at home, he's like, there's 38 you're missing the critical ones. 38 on line one. I know. Well, this is this is what you get when you let a doctor try and try and try and describe this.49:54  Yeah, but seriously, I think the takeaway here is that we can put there's no Muscle behind the message there, it really does work. And this is not specific to any one virus or any one bacteria. This is what your body needs in order for your immune system to work efficiently just so happens, that it works really, really well for what a lot of people are concerned about.50:18  It does and you just came up with a whole new idea. But as we close this out I think I'm gonna attach this next time I do a hemorrhoid on a patient so we can hear50:27  the hemorrhoid. Be sure that requires some type of consent. But yeah, I think it's awesome.50:34  All right. So thank you, everyone, for listening to this. I hope that this is something that makes some sense, please share it, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to the I guess all the other platforms, iTunes and Spotify and 50:52  we are honestly the run on Atrantil at the KBMD store has been kind of intense over the last two months. So number one, thanks for everyone for sharing all the information here recently we're doing all that we can to bring that part back online but we'll have an associated discount probably with this particular show. Just in general with with the immune system. Yeah, and as soon as that rolls out, then we'll make that available and all the show notes etc.51:15  Totally and thank you diarrhea dogs for this episode go to diarrhea dogs.com put in code Mike for a 98% discount.51:26  I can't wait to find out what people email in and say what's it diarrhea dogs.com.51:33  Remember, it's code Mike, for 98% discount.51:39  I think it's probably gonna do it for us. Thank you all for joining us on the gut check project please like and share and we will see y'all with 48 with some continuation on the immune system. Talk to you then51:49  bye bye. Thank you.

BLACK ROOM Marginal sounds of the underworld :ƎP1SØÐƐ |O7| 27.I2.2O2O: 01:03 POLICE DES MOEURS - Noir 04:52 LINEA ASPERA - Solar flare 12:11 TE/DIS - Phantom light 16:25 NNHMN - In darkness 22:05 MODE IN GLIANY - Densité 26:47 NOROMAKINA - Decay 31:08 COLD GREY RAIN - Parenthése désenchantée 35:41 FRETT - Dreams 39:45 MADMOIZEL - Illusion 43:45 SELOFAN - Absolutely absent 47:16 THE COMPLETERS - End 50:22 PARKING DANCE - Hold 54:32 DEATH BELLS - Two thousand and twenty 57:40 SARA STUTTGART - Женщина в Колодце Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O

BLACK ROOM Marginal sounds of the underworld :ƎP1SØÐƐ |O6| I3.I2.2O2O: 00:33 PARTINICO ROSE - Don’t leave me alone 03:46 DAS NOIR - B-City 06:46 CLOSED MOUTH - Days go by 11:09 LAWROW - Dream 15:04 VANDAL MOON - Robot lover (FM Attack remix) 19:34 LEBANON HANOVER - Living on the edge 24:10 SYDNEY VALETTE - PTSD 27:53 YEARS OF DENIAL - Lover’s crime 33:14 ABSOLUTE BODY CONTROL - Melting away (G.O.L.E.M. rework) 36:42 IRÈNE DE MILO - Se serrant contre lui 39:53 NEW ORDER - Be a rebel 44:06 KINDEST CUTS - All you need is money 48:02 MARY - Devouring me 51:11 EX-HYENA - Instant fires 54:20 FALL SHOCK - Illusion Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O

Link to bioRxiv paper: http://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.10.29.360867v1?rss=1 Authors: Chen, Y.-R., Hsiao, N.-W., Huang, S.-S., Chang, C.-C., Lee, Y.-Z., Tsai, J.-R., Lin, H.-C., Toullec, J.-Y., Lee, C.-Y., Lyu, P.-C. Abstract: A neuropeptide (Sco-CHH-L), belonging to the crustacean hyperglycemic hormone (CHH) superfamily and preferentially expressed in the pericardial organs (POs) of the mud crab Scylla olivacea, was functionally and structurally studied. Its expression levels were significantly higher than the alternative splice form (Sco-CHH) in the POs and increased significantly after animals were subjected to a hypo-osmotic stress. Sco-CHH-L, but not Sco-CHH, significantly stimulated in vitro the Na+, K+-ATPase activity in the posterior (6th) gills. Furthermore, solution structure of Sco-CHH-L was resolved using nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy revealing that it has an N-terminal tail, three -helices (2, Gly9-Asn28; 3, His34-Gly38; 5, Glu62-Arg72), and a {pi}-helix ({pi}4, Cys43-Tyr53) and is structurally constrained by a pattern of disulfide bonds (Cys7-Cys43, Cys23-Cys39, Cys26-Cys52), which is characteristic of the CHH superfamily-peptides. Sco-CHH-L is topologically most similar to the molt-inhibiting hormone from the Kuruma prawn Marsupenaeus japonicus with a backbone root-mean-square-deviation of 3.12 [A]. Ten residues of Sco-CHH-L were chosen for alanine-substituted and the resulting mutants were functionally tested using the gill Na+, K+-ATPase activity assay, showing that the functionally important residues (I2, F3, E45, D69, I71, G73) are located at either end of the sequence, which are sterically close to each other and presumably constitutes the receptor binding sites. Sco-CHH-L was compared with other members of the superfamily revealing a molecular architecture, which is suggested to be common for the crustacean members of the superfamily, with the properties of the residues constituting the presumed receptor binding sites being the major factors dictating the ligand-receptor binding specificity. Copy rights belong to original authors. Visit the link for more info

Não é de agora que a matemática é uma aliada em estudos epidemiológicos. Modelos matemáticos podem auxiliar no planejamento de ações no combate a pandemias, como é o caso atual da covid-19. E lá na Escola Politécnica (Poli) da USP cientistas trabalham no desenvolvimento de um novo modelo matemático que poderá, num breve futuro, auxiliar no combate à doença que já atinge o mundo todo. Em entrevista aos Novos Cientistas desta quinta-feira (4), a física Cristiane M. Batistela explicou como desenvolveu um novo modelo a partir de um outro já consagrado, o SIR. Os estudos de Cristiane vêm sendo realizados no programa de pós-doutorado do Departamento de Engenharia de Telecomunicações e Controle da Poli, sob a supervisão do professor José Roberto Castilho Piqueira. “O modelo SIR foi publicado em 1927, por W. O. Kermack (bioquímico escocês) e A. G. McKendrick (médico escocês)”, contou a física. Eles criaram o sistema que considera uma população fixa com apenas três compartimentos: suscetíveis (S), indivíduos saudáveis mas que podem contrair a doença; infectados (I), aqueles que contraíram a doença e são capazes de infectar os suscetíveis; e recuperados (R), que não podem contrair a doença novamente. Daí a sigla SIR. O trabalho de Cristiane foi adaptar o SIR e incluir mais dois compartimentos: os imunizados (I2), que são a classe de indivíduos que contraíram a doença e estão imunes; e óbitos (O), que são a classe dos que contraíram a doença e morreram. “Com essa inclusão de mais dois compartimentos fizemos então um novo modelo que permite descrever a propagação na população que possui todos esses grupos”, explicou.

Não é de agora que a matemática é uma aliada em estudos epidemiológicos. Modelos matemáticos podem auxiliar no planejamento de ações no combate a pandemias, como é o caso atual da covid-19. E lá na Escola Politécnica (Poli) da USP cientistas trabalham no desenvolvimento de um novo modelo matemático que poderá, num breve futuro, auxiliar no combate à doença que já atinge o mundo todo. Em entrevista aos Novos Cientistas desta quinta-feira (4), a física Cristiane M. Batistela explicou como desenvolveu um novo modelo a partir de um outro já consagrado, o SIR. Os estudos de Cristiane vêm sendo realizados no programa de pós-doutorado do Departamento de Engenharia de Telecomunicações e Controle da Poli, sob a supervisão do professor José Roberto Castilho Piqueira. “O modelo SIR foi publicado em 1927, por W. O. Kermack (bioquímico escocês) e A. G. McKendrick (médico escocês)”, contou a física. Eles criaram o sistema que considera uma população fixa com apenas três compartimentos: suscetíveis (S), indivíduos saudáveis mas que podem contrair a doença; infectados (I), aqueles que contraíram a doença e são capazes de infectar os suscetíveis; e recuperados (R), que não podem contrair a doença novamente. Daí a sigla SIR. O trabalho de Cristiane foi adaptar o SIR e incluir mais dois compartimentos: os imunizados (I2), que são a classe de indivíduos que contraíram a doença e estão imunes; e óbitos (O), que são a classe dos que contraíram a doença e morreram. “Com essa inclusão de mais dois compartimentos fizemos então um novo modelo que permite descrever a propagação na população que possui todos esses grupos”, explicou.

0:57 Okay, so in this episode of the special In a chat, kind of special episodes that we're doing here, we've got Audra, who is based in Canada, and we're gonna have a chat about the kind of, you know, weird things that are going on right now and hopefully provide some humour and a little bit of inspiration to make this a bit lighter. So how are you finding things right now?1:21 You know what, it's actually okay. I have not been out of my apartment in a month. So, um, but I think we're just I feel safe. We're doing what we have to do. We're saving lives. It's temporary. I mean, I think the world is not gonna be the same at the end of this, but it's managing. Well, I mean, listen, we have a roof over our heads. We have internet access, we have enough groceries. Everyone that I love and care about so far is safe and safe. I'm focused on that and just like doing what we need to do right now.2:05 Yeah, million percent Williamson. I mean, I read your blog the other day on how you're kind of finding things, and working from home with your partner.2:15 Just tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean, I2:19 I already work from home and now I'm just reminding myself that this is our apartment and not like I do. I'm used to a lot of alone time but I mean, we live in a big city. So real estate is tricky, right? Like we have an open concept loft. So everything happens, basically in one room, right? Like it's like the cooking, the eating, the relaxing the working. And actually, I feel like both of us are working more than we normally would like, it's hard to just turn it off. I think we need to like figure out a way to be like, okay, it's five o'clock. Turn off your computer and figuring it out. How do we differentiate the days like my most recent suggestion was like, Martini Monday to Tuesday. Hey,3:16 you know what day it is? What are we drinking?3:21 is awesome. I love that. I love that and the thing that's really annoying is that whenever you like I send my husband to the supermarket now so I don't have to go. I just kind of see him. And he always says like, yeah, the hell gone. I was just empty so we couldn't really get anything. Oh.3:39 Um, so yeah, is it like that where you are like, um,3:42 yeah, so my husband actually went to do groceries this morning and waited for an hour in line in the parking lot to get in before but I we we kind of we stopped pelts and booze early on. So we're set.3:59 That is a good tip. Do we do the opposite sort of thing? We stop? We literally stockpiled easter eggs.4:06 We have a fridge. That's good.4:09 Nothing else4:11 about that. It's so funny.4:15 Oh god. So how does how's your partner finding working from home? Is that like, is that like for the first time for him? Do you think?4:25 I mean, he has taken the odd day from home. But it like for him consistently. It's tough. And he is used to being way more active. So he, he like he walks to work and I think that part he's missing but I think he's also he also kind of has this like can do spirit of we're just doing what we need to do. We'll get through it, you know. So I think the thing that's going to be tough for us, like bigger pictures and we travel a lot like every couple of months. somewhere. I really don't think we're going to be travelling probably for a year so that's going to be tough but we are getting a puppy. Oh wow. That feels like a pretty good consolation prize. So for sure and that will definitely keep you busy. Yeah.5:21 Can we get into a little bit more detail about the puppy?5:24 Puppy for cute so we actually we had a dog that we lost in December she's she's the best dog ever. Um, so we are dog people and we are like really feeling that loss especially right now. You know, it would just be so great to have a dog in your lap. So she's coming end of June.5:50 Can't5:53 it's like anybody out there follows me on instagram you will know I post a picture of my dog. The deck is6:00 She's just always doing something funny and cute. Yeah, t

Black Room ƎP1SØÐƐ /09/ I2.OI.2O2O: Best 2OI9 albums Part I This is the ranking of the 20 best 2019 albums for Black Room! 01 - SILENT EM · The Absence 02 - UNDERTHESKIN · Negative 03 - KRIS BAHA · Palais 04 - SKEMER · Benevolence 05 - LOST SYSTEM · Left behind 06 - KOMPROMAT · Traum und existenz 07 - VR SEX · Human traffic jam 08 - MILLIKEN CHAMBER · Absence 09 - SYZYGYX · Fading bodies 10 - TWIN TRIBES · Ceremony 11 - BOY HARSHER · Careful 12 - TORNISCHE · Interiorismo 13 - INCIRRINA · 8.15 14 - DE AMBASSADE · Duistre kamers 15 - SPIT MASK · You may feel some pressure 16 - SHE PLEASURES HERSELF · XXX 17 - ZALIVA-D · Forsaken 18 - PINDROPS · Reflctions 19 - THE BERLANGAS · Congelado corazon 20 - LOVATARAXX · Hebephrenie Best 5 mini albums (in alphabetical order) DEAD - Dreams NOSTROMO - Extreme manifestations NOSUCHNAME - Abyss SIERRA - Gone STALLION'S STUD - I am a drama man

BLACK ROOM -Marginal sounds of the underworld- ƎP1SØÐƐ /O8/ 29.I2.2OI9: 00:47 BLACK EGG + BETA EVERS - Lost in desperation 04:08 THE HERMETIC ELECTRIC - True blood 08:56 NNHMN - Black sun 13:37 NO NEW DAWN - One fading into light 19:03 CONSTANCE CHLORE - Une réception interminable 23:15 ORDER89 - Memoire pirate 28:18 SJÖBLOM - The last call (Ash Code remix) 32:59 BLACK MARBLE - One eye open 39:08 IAMNOONE - Circling 44:34 TRST - Iris 50:36 JULIA BONDAR - Fame 55:07 M!R!M - Survive Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O

BLACK ROOM -Marginal sounds of the underworld- ƎP1SØÐƐ /O7/ I5.I2.2OI9: 01:37 TEST DEPT. - Information scare (Imperial black unit Remix) 07:37 DIE KRUPPS - Welcome to the blackout 12:16 THE HACKER - Nancy 16:08 CAPUT MEDUSAE - Angerona 20:51 INCIRRINA - True love doth pass away 25:37 ILL HUMANS - Whatever 30:32 RINGFINGER - Cloak and dagger 34:34 NOSUCHNAME - Hands of mercy (Feat. Aubergine Haze) 39:11 INCIRRINA - London 42:45 SECRET SHAME - Storm 47:17 VERONICA VASICKA - From here (Regis Remix) Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O 52:22 ILLNURSE - All day (Feat. DJ Varsovie) 57:45 HARSH MENTOR - Salve

BLACK ROOM -Marginal sounds of the underworld- ƎP1SØÐƐ /O7/ I5.I2.2OI9: 01:37 TEST DEPT. - Information scare (Imperial black unit Remix) 07:37 DIE KRUPPS - Welcome to the blackout 12:16 THE HACKER - Nancy 16:08 CAPUT MEDUSAE - Angerona 20:51 INCIRRINA - True love doth pass away 25:37 ILL HUMANS - Whatever 30:32 RINGFINGER - Cloak and dagger 34:34 NOSUCHNAME - Hands of mercy (Feat. Aubergine Haze) 39:11 INCIRRINA - London 42:45 SECRET SHAME - Storm 47:17 VERONICA VASICKA - From here (Regis Remix) Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O 52:22 ILLNURSE - All day (Feat. DJ Varsovie) 57:45 HARSH MENTOR - Salve

BLACK ROOM -Marginal sounds of the underworld- ƎP1SØÐƐ /O6/ OI.I2.2OI9: 00:52 DANCING PLAGUE - Stressed 06:26 DEHET SINN - Blizna 10:06 ILL HUMANS - Lonely soulmates 13:55 EMINENCE GRISE - Smart words 18:25 BRUSQUE TWINS - Obsess. 22:30 KRIS BAHA - Life, lost + death 28:14 MILLIKEN CHAMBER - Death will come 33:25 CORNELIUS DOCTOR - Soft rocket 41:03 MILLIKEN CHAMBER - Cadence 44:30 POTOCHKINE - La bachique (Mila Dietrich Remix) 49:11 ROMANCE DISASTER - Take off your past 55:29 SOUTH HEIGHTS - Vx122 pt 2 (The storm) Black Room airs every Sunday from 09.00 PM (Rome TZ). Streaming online www.radioicarorubicone.it - Local area FM 9O.O

Anthony Losquadro and David Snow (Dr. Health Radio) have a wide ranging discussion over circumcision. Topics discussed include the bizarre American history, medical industry profit & the AAP, female genital mutilation, foreskin restoration, pain & trauma, and more.

Circumcision Chronicles Uncut Podcast #19: Video podcast with Anthony Losquadro of Intaction and Michael Winnel of the Foreskin Revolution http://foreskinrevolution.com Discussion about intactivism around the world - The Worldwide Fight Against Circumcision - What's happening right now! The Circumcision Chronicles Uncut Podcast is also available on YouTube as a video podcast.

A wide ranging discussion about the function of the foreskin and controversy surrounding circumcision. Why are Americans obsessed with circumcision? Topics include religion, the 4 Powers of Foreskin, and the Netflix documentary American Circumcision controversy. Sponsored by Alpha Armor "Skin Care for Men's Sensitive Areas." Have Better Sex at http://AlphaArmor.men

Engaging discussion on how foreskin removal results in pain and trauma to American baby boys. Topics include the Netflix American Circumcision documentary, female genital mutilation, and the 4 Powers of Foreskin. With Kate Delaney America Tonight and Anthony Losquadro Director, Intaction.org.  Sponsored by Alpha Armor "Skin Care for Men's Sensitive Areas" Have Better Sex at http://AlphaArmor.men

The controversial Netflix documentary "American Circumcision" is surprising many people. Hear the wild discussion, with lots of foreskin and circumcision talk on 880AM CKLW. With Anthony Losquadro, Director of Intaction, and Lynn Martin Host "The Lynn Martin Show" iHeartRadio. Sponsored by Alpha Armor "Skin Care for Men's Sensitive Areas." Have Better Sex at http://AlphaArmor.men

Pop star Pink fired back at mom-shaming trolls on Sunday who criticized her for sharing a picture of her 2-year-old son without a swim diaper. The Instagram photo featured the 39-year-old singer with her two-year-old son and seven-year-old daughter. Social media users were quick to criticize Pink for evidently having her son circumcised. Anthony Losquadro from the anti-circumcision group Intaction and Mark Alyn from Late Nite Health have a wide ranging discussion about the whole topic of circumcision on KABC 790 Sponsored by Alpha Armor "Skin Care for Men's Sensitive Areas." Have Better Sex at http://AlphaArmor.men Get Anthony's "Foreskin for the Win" T-shirts at http://intaction.org/shop

To make an argument for the intact body and against circumcision, BRIC TV host Brian Vines is joined by Anthony Losquadro, the founder of Brooklyn-based action group, Intaction.

Male circumcision, Female genital mutilation, pain & trauma, psychological harm, 4 Powers of foreskin, & intersex children's rights. with Anthony Losquadro - Director of Intaction, and Dr. Wendy Walsh KFI AM640 iHeart Radio Network Also included is a discussion about a man that confronted his circumciser obstetrician later in life.

Psychological effects of circumcision on infants and adolescents. How circumcision damages your mental health. What parents need to look out for. Anthony Losquadro is a expert in the area of anti-circumcision advocacy and the executive director of Intaction. Dr. Pat Baccili is the host of the internationally acclaimed, The Dr. Pat Show – Talk Radio to Thrive By, #1 Positive Talk in Seattle several years running – the show reaches millions of people each year and is broadcast on hundreds of AM/FM/Digital networks and 165 countries with a powerful life- changing message. Sponsored by Alpha Armor "Skin Care for Men's Sensitive Areas." Have Better Sex at http://AlphaArmor.men Get Anthony's "Foreskin is FunSkin" T-shirt at http://intaction.org/shop

Anthony Losquadro, Director of Intaction, and Karen Hunter Sirius XM Urban View discuss circumcision, masturbation, religion, and female genital mutilation. Sponsored by Alpha Armor, skin care for circumcised men http://alphaarmor.men

Anthony Losquadro, Director Intaction (http://intaction.org) discusses the current state of circumcision in America with Cultivate Wellness Podcast host Brad Swail. Featuring the 4 Powers Of Foreskin, pain and trauma, FGM - Female Genital Mutilation, psychological harm.

James Lowe (Jiggy Jaguar) and Anthony Losquadro discuss foreskin and circumcision.

Never before heard discussion about circumcision trauma causing seizure like attacks. Plus the wonderful benefits of foreskin and dispelling the myths about circumcision by expert Anthony Losquadro of Intaction with Mark Thomas of 1110AM North Carolina radio.

Intaction Director Anthony Losquadro interviewed by Chip Franklin on KGO-810AM San Francisco

Jeff Crouere, host of the radio show "Ringside Politics" on WGSO 990-AM and Anthony Losquadro discuss circumcision trends in America.

Anthony Losquadro discusses the Four Powers of Foreskin with Bill Martinez hosting. 

Anthony Losquadro (The Foreskin Guy) of Intaction discusses why circumcision rates are declining in America.

Nothing should stop you from pursuing your dream. If you are being lazy listen to this podcast to get the mental shift to stay on course to your personal greatness. Some common excuses for being lazy:1. Excuses I got a lot on my plate 2. I don't have enough time 3. It's too hard 4. It's too much work 5. Job is demanding6. Taking care of the kid's7. Life is too much 8. I need some rest 9.1 I started but then I stopped 10. I stopped because ......11. I don't have anyone to help me I2. I don't have money or investorsHarlem based Rap Artist Tommy Danger - The Now and Laterman gave Now and Laters at Local Hip Hop events in exchange for email addresses. This led to the creation of the Mixtape series The Now & Laterman volumes 1 - 10. He has released 13 independent music projects, hosts Motivation and Confidence Podcast weekly and the Author of the E-Book Motivation and confidence Vol. 1 - The 7 StepsJoin our Mailing list http://bit.ly/mac1freeLife Coach: http://bit.ly/coach_tomdangerGo Shop http://bit.ly/2nrcVRrT-Shirt http://bit.ly/MacteesFollow me on https://www.Instagram.com/tomdangerFollow me on https://www.Twitter.com/tomdangerFollow me on https://www.Facebook.com/tomdangeVisit the website https://www.tomdanger.com

Here's the thing: I'm a fan of SI3! In my opinion, the market needs to continue growing! And the sooner everyone knows about it, the sooner the jewelers will have no choice but to catch up!  Ben believes that if you see an SI3, run in the opposite direction! Overview of the Diamond Clarity Scale. Clarity Scale: F & IF | VVS1 & VVS2 | VS1 & VS2 | SI1 & SI2 & (SI3) | I1 & I2 & I3 - (GIA) Certified until VVS2 | Consumers should expect a certificate from GIA (or another appraisal company) to back it up - VS1 and VS2 can be appraised by a Gemologist or expert without a certificate - SI1 and SI2 – Bulk of diamonds here and lower | Still eye clean - I1, I2 and I3 – Inclusions are visible to the eye What is an SI2 Diamond? The Gradations within SI2 What is an I1 Diamond? The Gradations within I1 What is an SI3 Diamond? The Gradations within SI3 Pros of SI3 There is a zone between SI2 and I1 that is unfairly being labeled as I1. It’s eye-clean and so it belongs in the SI location. We need a zone between SI2 and I1. The chasm between both gradings is too large... Who is exactly falling for anything? No one is trying to call it as SI2. People should research and realize that SI3 means eye clean - but with larger inclusions. EGL is a reputable Appraising Company. It’s not a 3rd tier type of company It’s the early days of a good idea. Give it time. EGL have started something. Don’t bash it. GIA will catch up soon… Cons of SI3 Room for scammers. They can start passing I1’s as SI3’s Not accepted by GIA (or most of the world) Never Ending Situation (can of worms) when adding more and more sub-divisions into the Clarity Scale It will cause a big of loss of money to people who got diamonds certified as SI2 but are now only considered SI3 Final Thoughts To learn more about SI3 Diamonds click this link: https://www.estatediamondjewelry.com/si3-clarity/

In this first episode, we welcome you into the world of Deuce & Charger. We play our favourite new melodic drum & bass tracks and let you know what we've been getting up to in the studio, while also chatting about a load of random stuff like Stranger Things (no spoilers!), our musical influences and holidays. We finish the episode off with a 15 minute drum & bass minimix.Tracklisting:1. High Maintenance - My World ft. Deuce & Charger2. Ekko & Sidetrack - Synchronise3. Toronto Is Broken - In Your Soul4. Indivision x Deuce & Charger - Intertwined5. Zombie Cats - Far From Us ft. Sarah Pellicano6. Royksopp - Eple7. Hybrid Minds & Thomas Oliver - JetstreamMinimix:1. Deuce & Charger - Only You & I2. Polaris - Prismatic Gate3. Koven - Love Wins Again4. Changing Faces - The Upside Down5. Fred V - Storm ft. Rothwell6. Telomic - Alone ft. Notelle7. Maduk - Coming Down8. Whiney - Spheres ft. Keeno & Pippa Violets (Polaris Remix)9. Makoto x Seba - Deep Waters10. No Concept - Gets Me High11. Kager - Hiyah12. Metrik - Hackers13. Culture Shock - Renaissance

100s and 1000s of transactions checked and corrected to resolve cinematic financials before the completion of I2 or Iteration Two of the Festival Screener for Daughter of God. Happy bathtub recollections of last week's birthday drive to Chicago.

Sparky Sorenson is a drone pilot form Dallas Texas, currently fling the DJI Phantom 4 Pro and DJI Inspire 2 models. Sparky has been flying since 2014, when he was in a band and taking a lot of cross state roadies. During these trips he started to explore video editing, and eventually added on a drone! His first drone, like mine, was the Phantom 2. Flying mostly cinematography, and mapping missions, his choice in the P4P and I2 is obvious. The quality and calibre of footage you can get from the I2 is exactly what his film and television production clients want. The P4p and it's global shutter is also perfect for his mapping missions. Speaking of mapping, Sparky is utilizing the Propeller Aeropoints for many of his jobs. If you've taken my Drone Mapping 101 course, you'll recall that I also use Aeropoints during the training to show you how easy it is to mark your ground control or manual tie points in post processing. If you haven't checked out the course yet, be sure to head on over for all the details! I won't get into too many details in this blog post, so be sure to listen in to hear how Sparky flew at an airport. Yeah, I know many of us have flown in controlled airspace, but Sparky flew right in the middle of an active airport. Very, very cool stuff! I hope you enjoyed this week's drone podcast with Sparky Sorenson! Once you've had a listen, feel free to leave a comment so that Sparky and I can hear what you think!

dj dAz presents: Soul on 45 (Fortified Live)1. Darondo – Didn't I2. Donny Hathaway – Love, Love, Love3. Freddie Scott – You Got What I Need4. Otis Redding – Hard To Handle5. Lowell Fulsom – Tramp6. Bobby Byrd – Hot Pants, I'm Coming7. Joe Quarterman & Free Soul – I Got So Much Trouble In My Mind Pt I8. Dyke & The Blazers – Let A Woman Be A Woman And A Man Be A Man9. Garland Green – I Can't Believe You Quit Me10. Syl Johnson – Different Strokes11. Rufus Thomas – the Breakdown PT I12. Rufus Thomas – The Breakdown PT II13. James Brown – The Chicken14. James Brown – In The Middle PT I15. Fred Wesley & The JB's – Rockin' Funky Watergate16. Sam and Dave – Hold On, I'm Comin'17. Booker T & The M.G.'s – Melting Pot18. Stevie Wonder – Higher Ground19. Marvin Gaye – Inner City Blues (Make Me Wanna Holler)20. Marvin Gaye – A Funk Space Reincarnation PT I21. Roberta Flack & Donny Hathaway – Where Is The Love22. Roberta Flack – Gone AwayA 100% 7” 45 rpm mix vinyl mix of funky soul records. Idealized, spiritualized, and super-sized by dj dAz for Umoja Soundsystem

Pretend Record Club Flexi Disc Issue #2, Episode 4 of 4

Pretend Record Club Flexi Disc Issue #2, Episode 3 of 4

Pretend Record Club Flexi Disc Issue #2, Episode 2 of 4

Pretend Record Club Flexi Disc Issue #2, Episode 1 of 4

I2

Scott Summer caught my eye as he's shooting a lot of golf courses, and I wanted to find out how he's making his connections and shooting all his footage. When you listen to this episode, you'll hear that he has a lot of connections in the industry due to his prior work, however he also goes over how to develop new business within the golf industry! Scott started off flying the DJI Phantom 3 4K, but has now made the move to the DJI Phantom 4 Pro and Inspire 2 models. Why the change? Scott goes into detail to talk about the differences between WiFi connected drones such as the P34K, and the benefits you get from Lightbridge connected drones like the P4P and I2.