Podcast appearances and mentions of Larry Moore

Step into a treasure trove of rare stories, photos, and audio clips as Bill Scherkenbach shares his decades with Dr. Deming. From boardrooms to sleigh rides, discover the moments, minds, and memories that shaped modern quality thinking, told by someone who lived it. A powerful blend of insight, humor, and history you won't want to miss. (You can see the slides from the podcast here.) TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.4 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we dive deeper into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today, I'm continuing my discussion with Bill Scherkenbach, a dedicated protégé of Dr. Deming since 1972. Bill met with Dr. Deming more than a thousand times and later led statistical methods and process improvement at Ford and GM at Deming's recommendation. He authored 'The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity' at Deming's behest and at 79 is still championing his mentor's message. Learn, have fun, and make a difference. Bill, take it away.   0:00:41.2 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, thank you. Thank you, Andrew. It's an honor to be asked back. Many places don't.   0:00:48.7 Andrew Stotz: I really enjoyed our first discussion, and particularly towards the end of it, it got a little personal and emotional, and I appreciate that you shared your journey. That was amazing.   0:01:00.9 Bill Scherkenbach: Thank you. Thank you. It is personal.   0:01:05.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:01:05.4 Bill Scherkenbach: But today, along that wavelength, I brought some pictures or photos and letters and audios of my association with Dr. Deming. So, if you might bring them up, we can start the commenting.   0:01:27.9 Andrew Stotz: Wonderful. Well, hopefully you see a screen now up.   0:01:34.8 Bill Scherkenbach: Yes. Yep.   0:01:35.8 Andrew Stotz: Okay. And for the audience, just to let you know, for the listeners, we're going to show these and I'll try to explain a little bit about what we're talking about because you're not going to be able to see the pictures. But the first thing is the title is An Insider's View of Deming. Learn, have fun, make a difference. And we see a great picture on the left-hand side, and then I threw in a picture of a Lincoln Continental, which we're going to talk about later, which is kind of fun. But maybe you can take it from there, Bill.   0:02:07.2 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. Well, we can talk a little bit later on on that, but this is a picture of me and my wife, Mary Ellen, with Dr. Deming having fun. We were at a restaurant in Northville called Elizabeth's, and it's something that he enjoyed to do just about every evening.   0:02:31.3 Andrew Stotz: Great. Well, what a kickoff. So let's go to the next one. And you guys all look great in that photo.   0:02:38.2 Bill Scherkenbach: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. This is a letter that I received from Dr. Deming back in May of '85, auspicious because the letter dated 13 May, that's my birthday. But for those who cannot read it, should I read the letter for you?   0:03:05.2 Andrew Stotz: Either you or I can read it for you. You tell me.   0:03:08.3 Bill Scherkenbach: Okay. Well, yeah. Why don't you read it?   0:03:10.9 Andrew Stotz: Okay. So, the letter is addressed to a particular person. It says, this is written by Dr. Deming, this acknowledges your kind letter of the 29th April. He that depends solely on statistical process control will be out of a job in three years. The record is clear, the record is clean, no exceptions. A whole program of improvement of quality and productivity is necessary, and it requires that top management learn what their job is. No part of the program will by itself suffice. Your letter does not describe your program, hence comment is difficult. I am happy to learn that Bill Scherkenbach will work with you. His achievements are renowned. He is excelled by nobody. I am sure that you will follow his guidance, not only while he is there with you, but from that then on out. I send best wishes and remain yours sincerely, W. Edwards Deming.   0:04:19.2 Bill Scherkenbach: Yes. I did spend a week with this organization, and as Deming said, and in many, many cases, the local management or local part of the organization get very enthusiastic, but the top management did not buy in. And so very little happened there, unfortunately.   0:04:53.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I missed that the top right-hand corner in handwritten, it says Portland, 20 May 1985. Dear Bill, I neglected to hand this to you in San Francisco, W. E. D.   0:05:08.1 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. We went to, we. Dr. Deming and I were in San Francisco to meet with Shoichiro Toyoda and his wife. It was a social call. Shoichiro was in town. I don't know where his brother Tatsuro was. Tatsuro headed up NUMI, but Shoichiro was head of it all and was in the US. And wanted to just have a dinner with Dr. Deming. I'm embarrassingly cloudy. We met in a hotel and I can't tell you which one, but it was a nice, relaxing dinner. The English was a bit stilted, but Soichiro wanted to have a dinner with Dr. Deming and to express his appreciation.    0:06:31.3 Andrew Stotz: And he was a titan of industry at the time and in 1985 was really making a beachhead and a real expansion into the US market. Why did he want to meet with Dr. Deming? What was the connection there? Maybe for those that don't know.   0:06:55.2 Bill Scherkenbach: He was in town and Deming was nearby in town and just wanted to express his appreciation. I guess, Tatsuro, his brother wasn't there, and Tatsuro headed up NUMI, the partnership between GM and Toyota. But Shoichiro was there and just wanted to express appreciation.   0:07:35.1 Andrew Stotz: Great. Okay. So shall we continue on?   0:07:40.0 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. We have a Where is Quality Made? Famous talking from Dr. Deming, and hopefully the audio translates well.   0:07:55.3 Andrew Stotz: Yes, we'll see. Let's go.   0:07:59.5 Speaker 3: Where is quality made, Andrew, in the top management? The quality of the output of a company cannot be better unless quality is directed at the top. The people in the plant and in the service organization can only produce and test the design a product and service prescribed and designed by the management. Job security and job are dependent on management's foresight to design a product and service to entice customers and build a market.   0:08:31.6 Andrew Stotz: So where did that come from? And tell us more about that.   0:08:36.2 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, I'm not exactly sure which particular seminar or meeting that was, but over the years I have, have, we've made a number of audio recordings and videos of Dr. Deming in his meetings. And so we're looking to get them to the Deming Institute so they can process them and distribute.    0:09:11.8 Andrew Stotz: And why is this so important? He's talking about quality is made at the top where we can see many people think that quality is made by the worker. Do your best. Quality is your responsibility. Tell us more about why you wanted to talk about this.   0:09:32.9 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, it's a common, it's a common, very common mistake. He learned back in 1950, and I think I mentioned it in our first talk, that he gave a number of courses at Stanford during the war and people learned SPC. But when the war was over, over here, because management didn't buy in, nothing really happened. And he learned in his visit in 1950 when he was able, as we said, Mr. Koyanagi was able to get a meeting, a number of seminars done with top management in Japan after the war. And he thought that that, he saw that that actually did make a difference, that management was absolutely key. And in every one of his seminars, he would make, he would make  this point, that quality is made at the top.   0:10:54.0 Andrew Stotz: And what was interesting is that, of course, the Japanese senior management, were very receptive. It's many times the case that Deming may have interacted with some senior management at the top of a company, but they weren't receptive or willing to implement what he's talking about.   0:11:12.6 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. I think I mentioned last time that you need maybe a significant physical or logical or emotional event. And Ford lost a few billion dollars and was then looking, is there a better way? Japan lost a war, and the tradition over there is to perhaps listen to the conqueror. But MacArthur was very astute, my understanding, that you're not going to go in and replace the emperor and really mix the place up from what their culture is, which is very, very, very astute, in my opinion.   0:12:11.4 Andrew Stotz: Okay. So let's continue. And we see a document now up on the screen and a diagram. And maybe you can explain this one.   0:12:24.8 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. This is one of the foils, as he called them, that he wrote on his lantern, which is the overhead projector for all the young people. And making another very, very important point. And that is, he's quoting John Tukey, "the more you know what's wrong with a figure, the more useful it becomes." And he also, at various times, would, would, would talk about George Gallup. And Gallup was his friend. And George Gallup would say that unless you've gone through the slogging of collecting data, you shouldn't be too quickly using data or analyzing data. Because if you go to collect it, you know that some people just aren't there. And this is primarily survey stuff that Gallup was talking about. But Tukey was talking about anything. And Deming, along the way, with his learnings from Shewhart, what I've developed is based on Deming's questions come from theory, created a theory, question, data, action cycle, similar to a PDSA. And so that you need to know what the question was before you can use the data. And Dr. Deming's example was you can't use manganese dioxide for just anything. If it's really, really critical work, then you need to know what's in it that could contaminate it or interact with the other chemicals that you're trying to mix it with. Hugely important in chemistry, hugely important anywhere. And he talked, yes, we do have some audio from Dr. Deming talking about another analogy, on I can't even wash the table unless you tell me what you're going to use it for.   0:15:24.0 Andrew Stotz: I remember watching a video of this with him, with Robert Reich, I think it was, being interviewed. And it was such an impactful thing because I always thought you just tell people what to do and they go do it. And so let's listen to the audio. I'm going to play it now. One second.   0:15:42.6 Speaker 3: I can teach you how to wash a table, teach you how to rub, scrub, use brushes, rags. I'd be pretty good at it. But you know, I could not wash this table suppose you told me my job is to wash this table. I have no idea what you mean. There's no meaning to that. You must tell me what you're going to use the table for. I want to see a flow diagram, work moving. Here I am. My job is to wash this table. I do not understand what you mean. Wash this table. There's no meaning to that. I must know what you're going to use the table for, the next stage. What happened to the table, next stage, in the flow diagram? You want to put books on it? Well, it's clean enough for that now. To wash the table, I just go through it from just here, make a look at it. If I work a little, good enough. If I clean enough to eat off of it, well, it's good enough now. Or use it for an operating table? Oh, totally different now. Totally different. Now I scrub it with scalding water, top, bottom, legs, several times. I scrub the floor underneath for some radius. If I don't know the next stage, I cannot wash the table.   0:17:28.8 Andrew Stotz: Tell us your thoughts on that.   0:17:31.5 Bill Scherkenbach: Yep. Yep. Well, again, my theory, question, data, action cycle, if you're asking a question, you, you, if you can, and there are some confidential considerations, but if you can, you need to tell the people who are trying to answer the question what you're going to do with it. And so if you want the table washed, tell them you're going to just eat off of it or assemble microchips on it. If you, so that's the responsibility of the manager or anyone who is asking the question. So if you want to improve your questions, you got to go back up and think of, well, what's my underlying theory for the question? If this, then that, that prompts a question and the circle continues. And if you, the only reason to collect data is to take action. Both Eastern and Western philosophers absolutely have said that for centuries.   0:18:55.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. What's interesting, I didn't hear him say it in any other cases when he was talking about the next stage. I did hear him say before, like, what's it going to be used for? But you could hear when he's talking about the next stage, it's saying to me, that's saying the responsibility of management is looking at the overall system and communicating that and managing that, not trying to, you know, just give some blind instruction to one group, one team, one person without thinking about how it all interacts.   0:19:29.9 Bill Scherkenbach: Absolutely. Absolutely. But in the local aspect of, well, some question answers are not so local, but it's what the question asker's responsibility to let the people know what they're going to use the data for.   0:19:51.9 Andrew Stotz: Yep. Great lesson. All right. So now I've got a interesting picture up on the screen here. We have Dr. Deming and there's John Turkey, Tukey how do you say his last name?   0:20:05.6 Bill Scherkenbach: John Tukey, T-U-K-E-Y, yep. George Box and Sir David Cox. Anyone in the statistics arena knows them. We also had Stu Hunter and I believe John Hunter was there. They're not in the picture. I took the picture. But we were at Meadowbrook, which is, which is, on the old Dodge estate where Oakland University is near Detroit. And had a, we called the meeting to discuss the importance and the various perspectives of enumerative and analytic. Now, each of these men, Box, Tukey, and Cox, and all of them, all of us in the university, quite honestly, were brought up with enumerative methods. And so your standard distributional stuff and T-tests and whatever. And Deming and Tukey realized the importance of being able to not just take action on the sample, but the cause system, the system that caused the sample, or the process term, in process terms. So yeah, John Tukey was strangely enough, well, not strangely enough, but came up with a graphical method to look at data called the box and whiskers plot, with George Box standing next to him, but it's not that George didn't shave. But Tukey, very, very well known for graphical methods.   0:22:24.2 Bill Scherkenbach: George, well known for experimental methods. One of the Box, Hunter and Hunter book on statistical design of experiments is legendary. And Sir David Cox, logistic regression, which is hugely, strangely, well, not strangely enough, but huge nowadays, very important in AI, in how you would be looking to teach or have your model learn what it is that you would like them to learn to look for. So each of these gentlemen, very, very much a pinnacle of the statistical career. We were very, in a large company like Ford, we were very lucky to be able to make big meetings like this, or meetings with very influential people happen.   0:23:38.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. That's got to be amazing because I think when most of us listen to Dr. Deming and all that, we get a lot of what he says. But I would say that the statistical aspect and his depth of statistical knowledge is what many people, you know, it's hard for many Deming followers to deeply connect with that. And I think even myself, having, you know, read everything, listened to him, learned as much as I can, the best that I probably come up with is the idea that once I started understanding variation, one of the things I started realizing is that it's everywhere and it's in everything. And I didn't understand...   0:24:27.3 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, I still have the cartoon of a popcorn maker that was very surprised when he said, "They all popped at once." And his popcorn stand has blown up. So yeah, variation is everywhere, a lot or a little. And the thing is that you need to be able to take appropriate action. Sometime, I can remember, I can remember Bob Stemple asking me, "What did I think of the Shainin methods, Dorian Shainin, and technical approach?" And I wrote back to him and I said, "It's no better or worse than any of the other methods we don't use here at GM." The point is, all of these methods are better than Bop-A-Mole. And one of the things, well, one of the things that concerns me is that in these tool areas, and Deming's counsel to me long ago was he remembers the fights that the technical people, the statisticians in the quality profession, would have over which one is a tenth of a percent better or more effective doing this and that. And they would publicly argue, and Deming said, "Stop. It confuses management because they don't have a clue and they're staying away from all forms of quality." So, you, and I don't know the solution in this day and age where everyone is connected. But all of these methods have their strengths and weaknesses, but you have to have the savvy to figure out which one to use to help you improve. All of, each of these four were great teachers, and I have a comment from Dr. Deming on that.   0:27:11.7 Andrew Stotz: And just in wrapping this up, it's like, I think one of the things that you realize when you see this one and what you're talking about, what I realize is what a powerhouse Dr. Deming was in the area of statistics. And in some ways, it's kind of like seeing a rock star that you love to listen to and that rock star is great. And then one day on a Sunday, you go to the church and you see he's a reverend and a very solemn man who is a very, very devout devotee of Christianity and something. In some ways, that's the way I feel when I look at this, like, wow, just the roots of the depth of that is so fascinating.   0:28:03.2 Bill Scherkenbach: As you mentioned that, I'm thinking back, we were in Iowa and one of the professors there, and I forget his name, but you're right. Deming was held in awe and he was riding in the backseat. I'm driving and this professor is beside me and Dr. Deming said something and I said, how do you know? And the guy thought the world was going to come to an end that I dared ask the master, how did he know? Well, it, it, it ended up fine.   0:28:52.9 Andrew Stotz: That was the question he was trying to teach you to ask.   0:28:55.3 Bill Scherkenbach: Absolutely. You don't accept it at face value.   0:29:02.2 Andrew Stotz: So we got this other slide now. It says, what do you mean by a good teacher? Maybe you want to set this up and then I'll play the audio.   0:29:10.7 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. This was one of his favorite stories when he studied under Ronald Fisher, who is the big godfather of statistics, well, relatively modern stuff. So, Fisher was there at University College, as Deming will describe, and Deming wanted to know, and this is where a number of you will have recognized, he wanted to know what great minds were thinking about.   0:29:56.7 Andrew Stotz: All right. I'm going to play the clip right now.   0:30:00.2 Speaker 3: What do you mean by a good teacher? I taught with a man, head of a department. The whole 150 students spellbound him, teaching him what is wrong. And they loved it. What do you mean by a good teacher? Holding students spellbound around him. What do you mean teaching them something? I've had a number of great teachers. One was Professor Ronald Picker, University of London, University College I should say, part of the University of London. In London, 1936, no teaching could be worse. A lovable man, if you tried to work with him, could not read his writing, could stand in the way of it, room was dark and cold, he couldn't help the cold, maybe he could have put some light in the room, make mistakes, Professor Paul Ryder in the front row always helped him out. He'd come in with a piece of paper in his hand the ink not yet dry, talk about it. Wonder why the room was full of people from all over the world. I was one of them. Made a long trip, at my own expense, to learn, and we learned. We learned what that great mind was thinking about, what to him were great or important problems today.   0:31:45.9 Speaker 3: And we saw the methods that he used for solutions. We saw what this great mind was thinking about. His influence will be known the world over for a long, long time. He would rated zero by most people that rate teachers. Another teacher that I had was Ernest Crown at Yale, very poor teacher. We'd get together afterwards, some of us, and try to figure out what he was teaching us. He was not even charismatic the way Ronald Fisher was, but we learned. We learned what that great mind was thinking about, what he thought was the problem. We learned about perturbation. His work on lunar theory will be a classic for generations. We learned. Worst teacher there could be, but we learned.   0:32:49.0 Andrew Stotz: Wow. Tell us more about that.   0:32:53.6 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, he also had a similar story because, from great teachers at NYU, and that's where I first met him and learned from him. He was my teacher, but NYU had a, they had nominations for great teachers. And Deming was able to convince, and I forget who was the, Ernest Kurnow was the dean, and he convinced the dean to wait 10 years before you survey any of the students. And the question was, did any teacher you have really make a difference in your life? And he was able to get that done or get that process agreed to, and it was for the better because in, and I don't want to... I mean, every generation has said this new generation is going to hell in a handbasket, I mean, that for forever. That's nothing new. But what's popular, it's great to be entertained, and as he said, teaching what is wrong. And so did someone make a difference in your life? And not surprisingly, Deming was one of the people selected as a great teacher from NYU Graduate Business School.   0:35:15.4 Andrew Stotz: So that's your review after 50 years after the course, huh?   0:35:21.6 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah.   0:35:24.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And so the point is that, let's separate popularity from original thinking. And also he highlighted the idea that some teachers may not come across very organized, very polished. They may need assistance to help them clarify what they're trying to get across. But just because they're kind of a mess in that way, doesn't mean they're not thinking very deeply. In fact, it may be a sign that they're thinking very deeply about it.   0:36:01.9 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. Now, again, remember, and I know it's a broad brush, but Deming was eminently logical. Crosby would have loved it. Wine and cheese parties showed Juran more physical. And so I think Deming's preferences there, the key to his statement is teaching what was wrong. Some people get excited in class for a variety of reasons, but the key is what are you teaching? The method depends on the ability of the teacher to connect to the students and actually teach. So it gets you back to physical, logical, and emotional. But for Deming, Fisher struck a chord with him.   0:37:09.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I think for the listener, the viewer, think about some teacher that really made an impact on you. And it could be that there was a teacher that was able to connect with you emotionally.   0:37:25.2 Bill Scherkenbach: Absolutely.   0:37:26.7 Andrew Stotz: So there's different ways. But I think of Dr. Deming wasn't a teacher of mine in university, but at the age of 24 to learn from him was definitely a teacher that left me with the most to think about. And I would say there was one other teacher, a guy named Greg Florence that was at Long Beach City College who taught me argumentation and debate. And he also really encouraged me to join the debate team, which I really couldn't because I didn't have time because I didn't have money and I had to work. But he really saw something in me, and now I love to teach debate and helping young people construct arguments. And so for all of us, I think this idea of what do you mean by a good teacher is a great discussion. So, love it. Love it. Well, we got another picture now. Speaking of teaching, the City University of New York is in the backdrop. Maybe you can set this one up.   0:38:27.0 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. This was a one-day, maybe one and a half with some pre-work, but essentially a one-day meeting in New York that was able to gather some of the top educators in the US, the head of the schools in California. There were some folks from Chicago. We had, as I mentioned, Albert Shanker, who was head of the American Federation of Teachers, was sitting right beside me. Other teacher organizations and education organizations. And we got together for a very meaningful thing. We got together to try and determine what is the aim of education in America. And it turned out that everyone was looking for their mic time, and we couldn't even agree on an aim for education in America. And if you can't agree on an aim, your system is everyone doing their best, and it's all, there's not too much progress, except locally or suboptimally.   0:40:02.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. That's a good illustration of the concept of best efforts. Dr. Deming often talked about best efforts. And here you're saying, without an aim, everybody's going to just go in their own direction. And it reminds me of a story I tell people in relation to management, which was that I had a really great boss many years ago in the field of finance research in the stock market. He was very brilliant, and he hired really good analysts. I was surrounded by the best. But he never once really brought us together to say, this is our aim. And so what ended up happening was that each person did their best, which was very good as an individual, but as a group, we never were able to really make an impact. And I explain that to my students nowadays, that I believe it's because he didn't set an aim and bring us together for that.   0:41:09.1 Bill Scherkenbach: Now, one of the, I mean, one of the things Deming very predictably talked about, as I recall, is the grades and gold stars, which were part of his forces of destruction. And the education is the way we approach education here was part of that, even before people get to get beat further down by corporate and other organizational stuff. And the grading and gold stars, I don't know how much that was, that criticism was appreciated. But everyone had a chance to talk. And in my opinion, not too many people listened.   0:42:09.3 Andrew Stotz: Now, the next one is titled Mongolian Rat. What the heck, Bill?   0:42:17.1 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, this is part of teaching what good teaching would be. You've got to listen. It's one of my favorite stories of his.   0:42:30.3 Andrew Stotz: Well, let's roll the tape.   0:42:33.3 Speaker 3: I met a professor in New York. He was a surgeon, professor of surgery. He did gave out some marble, had plenty. One student in the class, he told them describe the surgical procedure on the jaw in which a certain breed of Mongolian wrap was very helpful. The rat, the flesh right down the bone cleaner than a surgeon could do it. Very important wrap. Describe it in details to the listeners and students. On examination, one, the question was to describe the surgical procedure by use of the Mongolian rat. Plenty of students gave him back the same marbles that he doled out. He described it in exactly the same words that he described it. He flunked them all, all the time. One of them said, my dear professor, I have searched the literature. I've inquired around in hospitals and other teachers, I can find no trace of any such procedure. I think that you were loading us. He laughed. He had to take a new examination. He gave them back the same marbles he doled out to them. He wanted to think.   0:43:55.0 Andrew Stotz: Marbles. I haven't heard that expression. Tell us a little bit more about what you want us to take from this.   0:44:02.6 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. His comment on education that teachers are handing out marbles and pieces of information, not necessarily knowledge, and the testing, you're expected to give them back what the teacher said instead of how can you process it and put it in the context of other things, as well as, I mean, maybe not in the early grades, but in the later ones, you need to be able to look at various perspectives to see who has this opinion and that opinion. And unfortunately, today, that discourse is nicely shut down.   0:45:07.3 Andrew Stotz: At first, when I heard him saying marbles, I thought he was kind of using marbles as a way of kind of saying pulling their legs, but now I understand that he was trying to say that he's giving something and then the students give it back.   0:45:24.1 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   0:45:26.0 Andrew Stotz: Okay. Mongolian rats.   0:45:31.0 Bill Scherkenbach: Yep. Yep. So we go from learning to having fun, and here's a picture of our statistical methods office at Ford.   0:45:48.1 Andrew Stotz: And you're sitting in a sleigh? Is that what's happening there?   0:45:50.0 Bill Scherkenbach: We're sitting in a sleigh, yes, at Greenfield Village, which is where the Henry Ford Museum is, and it happened to snow, so we've got the, we've got the horse-drawn sleigh, and I was listening to your first interview of me, and I want to deeply apologize. It's Harry Artinian, and so from the left, you've got Ed Baker and Bill Craft and Pete Jessup, Harry Artinian, Narendra Sheth, Dr. Deming, Debbie Rawlings, Ann Evans, my secretary, uh ooooh, and the gentleman who worked with Jim Bakken, and then me. So, we were working and decided to have a good lunch.   0:46:58.5 Andrew Stotz: And it's a horse-drawn sleigh. And I wasn't sure if you were pulling our leg here because you said, I'm second from the far right. First from the far right, to me, looks like the horse.   0:47:09.0 Bill Scherkenbach: Yes. That's the horse's ass. Yep.   0:47:14.6 Andrew Stotz: That's a big one.   0:47:16.1 Bill Scherkenbach: It is what it is.   0:47:18.7 Andrew Stotz: Yep. Okay. Next one. Who's Sylvester?   0:47:22.3 Bill Scherkenbach: Sylvester is my son's cat. And this is one of the times Dr. Deming was in my home. And he sat down in my office at my home. And Sylvester saw a good lap and he jumped up on it and took it. And as I said, I couldn't tell who was purring louder. They both were content.   0:47:52.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. That looks beautiful.   0:47:55.4 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. It was very, very peaceful. Another fun thing, after a long day of work at Ford, we would go to Luigi's restaurant in Dearborn. I think there was a Dearborn Marriott, a big hotel. I don't know if it's there now. But that's Larry Moore, director of quality, next to Dr. Deming and me. I had a mustache back then.   0:48:30.4 Andrew Stotz: Yes. And we all loved soft serve ice cream.   0:48:34.0 Bill Scherkenbach: Soft serve ice cream. Yep.   0:48:38.0 Andrew Stotz: Yep. All right. Star-Spangled Banner.   0:48:40.9 Bill Scherkenbach: Yep. Now we're at one of my earlier houses in Northville. And Dr. Deming had written a new tune for the Star-Spangled Banner because it was an old English drinking song, Anna, the what? The Anacrocronistic Society. And he thought it was just too bawdy. I mean, you're an unsingable, except if you're drinking. So he rewrote the music for the Star-Spangled Banner. I have a copy of it here. But he, my son Matthew, my oldest son Matthew, we had just gotten one of those first Macs from Apple, Macintosh. And it had a very elementary music thing. So he put the notes that Deming had handwritten. And we put it in there and it played the tune. And so Deming was playing on our piano the Star-Spangled Banner.   0:50:04.7 Andrew Stotz: So he had a musical talent.   0:50:10.8 Bill Scherkenbach: Oh, yeah. He was a very serious study of, a student of music. Very much so. He wrote a complete Mass. He was a high church Episcopalian. And he wrote a complete Mass of the Holy Spirit with all parts. So, very much a student of music.   0:50:41.8 Andrew Stotz: And how did his religious beliefs, like Episcopalian, as you mentioned, how did that come across? Was he a person who talked about that? Was he a person that didn't talk about that? Like, how did that come across?   0:50:59.2 Bill Scherkenbach: It was more of a private thing. But then again, on every one of his books, he would begin a chapter with some quotation from different books. And many of them were from the Bible. I can remember one time in London, I'm Catholic, and so we were celebrating the St. Peter and Paul that Sunday. But he was in London and he was at St. Paul's and they weren't giving Peter any traction. But he looked up and he said, yep, you're right. It was both of those saint days.   0:51:58.3 Andrew Stotz: All right. Next one, Drive Out Fear.   0:52:01.8 Bill Scherkenbach: Oh, yeah. This was Professor Arnold. And we were having lunch in the Ford dining room, one of the Ford dining rooms. And Dr. Deming wasn't too happy of what Professor Arnold was talking about. And Professor Arnold didn't look too happy either. So, I framed the picture and put Drive Out Fear underneath it and hung it in my office. And Deming came and looked at it and smiled.   0:52:46.5 Andrew Stotz: And what was the background on Professor Arnold? And in this case, did they have opposing views or was it a particular thing or what was it that was...   0:52:58.4 Bill Scherkenbach: I don't remember the particular conversation, but Professor Arnold was head of the statistics department at Oakland University. And Ford had an agreement with Oakland University that we established a master's degree in statistics, according to Dr. Deming's viewpoint on enumerative and analytic. And no, he was very, very capable gentleman. I mean, one of the things Dr. Deming mentioned to me is if the two of us agreed all the time, one of us is redundant. So there were always discussions. This is just a snapshot in time.   0:53:52.3 Andrew Stotz: I love that quote, that one of us is redundant. That's powerful, powerful.   0:53:59.4 Bill Scherkenbach: Absolutely. Yep. This is another having fun after learning in... There were a number of restaurants we went to. He particularly liked Elizabeth's,   0:54:16.1 Andrew Stotz: And how was their relationship? How did he treat your lovely wife?   0:54:22.5 Bill Scherkenbach: Oh, I mean, very lovingly. I mean, I don't know how to describe it, but one of the family.   0:54:36.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. He seemed from my observation, like a true gentleman.   0:54:42.5 Bill Scherkenbach: Absolutely. Absolutely.   0:54:46.0 Andrew Stotz: Well, here we come to the Lincoln that we started off with. This is a great picture too.   0:54:51.4 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. That's a picture I had. It wasn't a Hasselblad, but it was a two and a quarter frame. And I had black and white film in it, but this is one of a number of pictures I took of him at the Cosmos Club. I think it was a very good picture. And in any event, it was blending learning and having fun.   0:55:19.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And the Cosmos Club was near his house?   0:55:22.5 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. Well, it was depending on who drove. I mean, it was just, it was down a few blocks and then a number of blocks on Massachusetts Avenue. I enjoyed the drive from his house because you'd pass the Naval Observatory, which for years was the home of the chief of naval operations here. But a few decades, a few, I don't know how long ago, the vice president pulled rank on him. And so the Naval Observatory, beautiful, beautiful old house. So, the vice president lives there now. And a lot of people think Massachusetts Avenue in that area is Embassy Row. So you're passing a number of embassies on the way. And the Cosmos Club, anyone can look up. I mean, it's by invitation, members only, and Nobel laureates and Pulitzer Prize winners and a very distinguished membership, let's say.   0:56:39.3 Andrew Stotz: Here was another one, Making a Difference with Don Peterson.   0:56:43.0 Bill Scherkenbach: Yep. Yep. We're, we're, this is one of the meetings we had with Don. And it wasn't this meeting, but we were in one of them. Okay. You have it on the right there. That we periodically would have, Dr. Deming and I would have breakfast with Jim Bakken in what was known as the Penthouse at Ford. There are 12 floors, and then there was the 13th and 14th, which were private quarters, essentially. And so we were having breakfast one morning and finishing breakfast, and I'm walking a little bit ahead, and I run ahead and press the elevator button to go down one floor, and the door opens, and there's Henry Ford II in cowboy belt buckle and boots, no hat. He's going to a board meeting, he says, and Jim shied away, said, "Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Ford." He said, "Shut up, Jim, get in here." And so we got in the elevator, and it was the small elevator. And so we're back to back, belly to belly, and Jim introduces Dr. Deming to Mr. Ford, and Ford said, "I've heard of you, Dr. Deming. God, we really need your help." And Deming had the presence of saying, "I heard of you too, Mr. Ford." It was the longest one-floor elevator ride I've ever had in my life.   0:58:49.1 Andrew Stotz: That's fascinating. All right. Next one, talking with workers.   0:58:54.1 Bill Scherkenbach: Yep. Yep. He made it a point. And this is a fine line, because you want to be able to have workers say, how, how, are they able to take pride in their work? And are there any problems and all of that? But you don't want to be in a position of then going to management and telling them because of fear in the organization. So, Dr. Deming was very good at listening and getting people to talk about their jobs and their ability to take joy and, well, pride in their work. So we had many, many meetings, different places. And this next one is with the Ford Batavia plant, I think.   1:00:01.2 Andrew Stotz: Yep.   1:00:02.4 Bill Scherkenbach: Yeah. We're riding on the tractors and having a good time.   1:00:11.3 Andrew Stotz: Who's driving?   1:00:14.2 Bill Scherkenbach: The plant manager, Ron Kaseya, was driving.   1:00:16.9 Andrew Stotz: Okay.   1:00:17.9 Bill Scherkenbach: And so I absolutely do not recall what we were laughing at, but we were having a good time. And the Batavia transaxle plant, a number of people will recognize as where Ford, it really made the point that doing better than spec is really what the job is. And it's a very powerful video that's been out there and people would recognize it as well, because we were producing the exact same transaxle in Mazda. And Mazda was influenced a lot of by Genichi Taguchi and looked to reduce variation around the nominal and not just be happy that we made spec. And John Betty, who was head up of powertrain operations and then went to the Department of Defense as assistant secretary of defense for procurement, I think, because of the quality expertise. Betty is in the front of the video saying he's absolutely convinced that this is a superior way to look at manufacturing, to look at the management of any process. You want to get your customers to brag, not just not complain.   1:02:10.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Courage.   1:02:11.8 Bill Scherkenbach: And all of this takes courage. And especially in his seminars in London say, the Brits had the advantage. You guys can take courage every day. We can't get that in the US anymore. Or it's very rare to be able to buy it here.   1:02:36.3 Andrew Stotz: For the listeners, there's a logo of the John Courage beer, premium beer.   1:02:45.7 Bill Scherkenbach: Yes. Yes. It's an amber pills.   1:02:49.8 Andrew Stotz: Okay.   1:02:52.4 Bill Scherkenbach: And last but not least, well, not last, but we're looking for, and I ran across this quote from Yogi Berra, and it's very applicable right now. And Yogi Berra said, I never said... Well, what did he say?   1:03:19.2 Andrew Stotz: Never said most of the things I said.   1:03:21.4 Bill Scherkenbach: Most of the things I could have said. I never said most of the things I said. Yeah. And every day online, I see people saying Dr. Deming said this, and he said that. And if he did, I've never heard him say it. And not that I've heard him say everything. But if he did say something like, if it's not measurable, you can't manage it. He would have followed it with, that's not right. The unknown and unknowable. And so you've got a lot of people misunderstanding what Dr. Deming said. And you've got to go with, I never said most of the things that I said.   1:04:24.0 Andrew Stotz: Well, that's the great thing about this discussion is that we're getting it from the horse's mouth, someone that was there listening and being a part of it.   1:04:32.1 Bill Scherkenbach: Well, I'm glad you saw the other end of the horse.   1:04:37.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. So, I'm going to close out this by just sharing a little personal connection. And that is, I'm showing a picture of me in my 1963 suicide door Lincoln Continental, which I owned for 10 years in beautiful Bangkok, Thailand. And much like being kind of wild taking a ride to the Cosmos Club with Dr. Deming driving his Lincoln Continental, you could imagine how odd it looked seeing this American guy driving this 1963 Lincoln Continental on the streets of Bangkok. But I just thought I would share that just to have some fun. So, yeah.   1:05:14.3 Bill Scherkenbach: That's beautiful. Absolutely. Yeah. I didn't think the streets were that wide.   1:05:22.1 Andrew Stotz: It gets stuck in traffic, that's for sure. But wow, there's so many things that we covered. I mean, I just really, really enjoyed that trip down memory lane. Is there anything you want to share to wrap it up?   1:05:36.1 Bill Scherkenbach: No. As I said, our last conversation, we've just scratched the surface. There's so much, so much more to talk about and preserve, I think.   1:05:48.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, I really enjoyed it.   1:05:52.1 Bill Scherkenbach: I have done my best.   1:05:53.6 Andrew Stotz: Yes, you have. You have. I've enjoyed it, and I'm sure the listeners and the viewers will enjoy it too. So, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, I just want to thank you for taking the time to pull that together and to walk us through it. And for listeners out there, remember to go to Deming.org to continue your journey. And of course, go to LinkedIn to find Bill and reach out and share your interpretations of what we went through. And maybe you have a story that you'd like to share also. So, this is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'm going to leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming. And that is, “people are entitled to joy in work."

What was it like to learn from Dr. Deming himself -- a decade before his name became legend in U.S. business circles? In this deeply personal episode, William Scherkenbach shares with host Andrew Stotz what it was like to sit in Deming's classroom in 1972, join him for late-night chats at the Cosmos Club, and help ignite transformational change at Ford and GM. Learn how Deming's teachings shaped a lifetime of purpose, and why Scherkenbach, now in his 80th year, is stepping back into the arena with lessons still burning bright. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.3 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today, I'm here with featured guest William Scherkenbach, and he is known as one of the men who has spent a huge amount of time with Dr. Deming, as he mentioned to me previously, starting from 1972, over a thousand meetings and many other activities that he's been involved in. So, Bill, welcome to the show. Why don't you give us a little background about you?   0:00:39.5 William Scherkenbach: Oh, okay. Good to be here, Andrew. Well, I'm going to start with, since it's about Deming, in '72, I was newly married in April, but had been accepted to NYU Graduate School of Business, and I don't know, I never found out who wrote the course syllabus, but whoever did wrote something that it sounded like a darn interesting course, sampling, manufacturing. I was a protocol officer at the United Nations at the time and was going to night school at the New York University Graduate School of Business. So, I said, this sounds like a good course, interesting course. Had no idea who Dr. Deming was, and I walked into the first class, and there was an old, I'm 26, so he was 72 in 1972, and he was one of the first, one of the only old person who didn't say, I used to be, and I don't want to stereotype all of my peers now that I'm 79, but hopefully I don't fall into the, well, I used to be and what happened. But he did tell, I mean, statistics can be a very technical subject, and the way he taught it, I had courses in some theory of sampling, which was one of his books.   0:02:52.2 William Scherkenbach: He had three, I said three courses. The other course that I took was based on his lectures in Japan in 1950, and in fact, two of them. The third course was an extension of that. So, he was, he would teach the statistics, but he was able to tell the history of the people behind all of the thoughts and the formulas and approaches, and I found that extremely, extremely interesting. And he handed out tons of papers and material, and it was just a very, very good experience. I know he had, and he had, in my opinion, a great sense of humor, but then statisticians, what's our status? Yeah, we're like accountants, in any event. .   0:04:12.2 Andrew Stotz: Why was he teaching? I mean, at 72, most men, you know, maybe women also, but most of us are like, it's the twilight of our years, and we now know he had 30 more years to go, but why was he teaching? And also, what's interesting is when I think about Deming, I think about his overall system of what he's teaching, whereas it's interesting to think about how he taught one relatively narrow subject.   0:04:43.7 William Scherkenbach: I'll get to that as to why I think he was teaching. But yeah, back then there were no 14 Points, no glimmer of Profound Knowledge. It was, not theoretical statistics, but applied statistics with a theory behind it. And he still was really expanding on Shewhart 's work with the difference between enumerative and analytic. He used his own. Now, why he was teaching, years later, probably 1987, so yeah, a bunch of years later, when I was at Ford and I had attended at the time, I attended a senior executive week-long get-together in order to get constancy of purpose or more continuity in the senior executive group. One of the people we brought in was Dr. Peter Kastenbaum. And I found as I attended his lecture in that week-long meeting, he was a student of CI Lewis. And CI Lewis, Deming learned about from Walter Shewhart and his work in the epistemology theory of knowledge. And in any event, Deming, when he was asked, and at the time it was still in the '30s, I think, when he was at the School of Agriculture, or the agriculture department, and bringing in Shewhart, he had tried to get CI Lewis to come talk. And CI said, I would love to, but I have a commitment to my students. And so I can't adjust my schedule.   0:07:33.9 William Scherkenbach: And the students, the people who wanted to learn were sacred. And I think that had a huge impact on Dr. Deming. I mean, he spoke about it a lot. And the way, you know, in a lot of the videos that Clare Crawford-Mason did, lovingly called the old curmudgeon. But for students, he had the greatest empathy and charity for, he just didn't suffer fools gladly. If you showed him that you weren't willing to learn, he took great joy in letting them know where they, where they stood.   0:08:43.1 Andrew Stotz: And one of the things when I went into my first Deming seminar in 1990, so now we're fast forwarding 30 years from when you first met him. It was almost like there was a safe harbor for workers, for young people, for people with open minds. I mean, I didn't, I watched as he didn't suffer fools, but I'm just curious, when you go back to 1972 in those classes, I'm assuming that he was pretty gentle with the students, encouraging them and all that was...   0:09:19.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh, absolutely. In my experience, I mean, if you were by, you know, in a student in graduate school, even though the graduate school of business in New York, down on 90 Church Street, Wall Street area, there were very few people going directly from your bachelor's to the master's program. And so these were people that had probably 10 years experience in business doing stuff. And yet by going to the class, absolutely were willing to learn, listen to different points of view, which is absolutely crucial. As you progress with theory of knowledge to be able to get different perspectives on whatever it is you're trying to look at.   0:10:23.2 Andrew Stotz: I would like to continue on this period of time just because it's a snapshot we don't get that often or that easily. You mentioned CI Lewis, a man who lived from about 1880 to about the year I was born, around 1964-65, and he was known for his understanding and discussion about logic and things like that. But why was CI Lewis someone that was interesting to Dr. Deming? What was the connection from your perspective?   0:10:59.6 William Scherkenbach: Well, my understanding is Shewhart referred to him, and Lewis was a professor at Harvard, and he was in the Peirce, I believe it's called. It looks like Peirce, but it's Peirce School of, or Chair of Philosophy, and Charles Sanders Peirce was a huge, huge influence in epistemology. And so that whole chain of thought or train of thought interested Deming, but it really was, he was introduced to it by Walter Shewhart.    0:11:48.3 Andrew Stotz: There's a famous quote, I believe, by Deming about CI Lewis and his book Mind and the World Order.   0:11:56.0 William Scherkenbach: Mind and the World Order, yeah.   0:11:59.9 Andrew Stotz: Deming said he had to read it six times before he fully understood and could apply its insights. And sometimes I think maybe Dr. Deming was truly inspired by that because when I think about his work, I'm still reading it and rereading it. And just listening to the video that you did many years ago with Tim talking about reduced variation, reduced variation, what he was talking about. Sometimes when we see the big picture, there's many different components of Deming's teachings. But if you had to bring it down to kind of its core, you know, he mentioned on that video that I just watched this morning, he mentioned reduced variation, and that will get you lower costs, happier customers, more jobs. How would you say, after you've looked at it from so many different angles over so many different years, how would you say you would sum up Dr. Deming's message to the world?   0:13:01.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, that's a difficult thing to sum up. Back then, when we did the video, which was in the early '80s, maybe '84, again, he had his 14 Points by then, but he hadn't, it hadn't really, the Profound Knowledge part of that wasn't there. Now, he had used what Shewhart said, and he had read, tried to read CI Lewis, and when he spoke about the connection between theory and questions, that's what he got from Shewhart and, well, and from Lewis, and a bunch of other pragmatist philosophers. So, he, you know, he was influenced by it, and, well, that's all I can say.   0:14:27.5 Andrew Stotz: So, let's go back in time. So, you're sitting in this classroom, you're intrigued, inspired. How did the relationship go at, towards the end of the class, and then as you finished that class, how did you guys keep in touch, and how did the relationship develop?   0:14:51.0 William Scherkenbach: Well, that is an interesting story. I usually am, well, I am introverted. So I had, after I moved from New York, I got a job at Booz Allen and Hamilton in Washington, DC. So in '74, when I got the degree from NYU, we moved to Silver Spring. And obviously, he's lived on Butterworth Place since there was a Butterworth Place. So we were able to, one of the things, and this is, well, I will say it, one of his advice to me, although he gave everyone an A, I later kidded him, he didn't remember that he gave me a B. No, he gave me an A. In any event, but one of his piece of advice was, you really don't need to join ASQC. You know more about quality than any of those inspectors. And so he had learned from the '50s in the past 20 years from the 50s that inspection wasn't going to do it. Well, I didn't take his advice, and I joined ASQC, and I was reading...   0:16:36.1 Andrew Stotz:Which for those who don't know is the American Society for...   0:16:41.6 William Scherkenbach: Quality Control, back then, now it's just the American Society for Quality. I had recommended when we did a big recommendations and forecasts for the year 2000 that quality, it should be the Society for Quality worldwide, but it's ASQ now. Let's see.   0:17:07.7 Andrew Stotz: So he recommended you don't join and you didn't follow his recommendation.    0:17:12.1 William Scherkenbach: I don't join, and I read an article, and it was by a professor in Virginia Tech, and he was showing a c-chart and the data were in control, and his recommendations were to penalize the people that were high and reward the people that were low, which is even back then, Dr. Deming was absolutely on track with that. If your process is in control, it doesn't make any sense to rank order or think that any of them are sufficiently different to reward or penalize. And I had never done this, but it was, I wrote a letter to quality progress. I sent a copy to Dr. Deming, and he said, "By golly, you're right on, that's great." And so I think it probably was '75, yeah, 1975. So I had been a year or so out, and he started inviting me over to his place at Butterworth, and we would go to the Cosmos Club. And that was a logistical challenge because at the time he had, well, his garage was a separate, not attached, it was in the backyard and emptied onto an alley. And he had a huge Lincoln Continental, the ones with the doors that opened from the center.   0:19:29.0 William Scherkenbach: And he would get in and drive and then park it in back of the club and someone would watch over it. But those were some good memories. So that was my introduction to keep contact with him. As I said, I had never done that. I don't think I've written a letter to an editor ever again.   0:20:04.8 Andrew Stotz: And you're mentioning about Butterworth, which is in DC.   0:20:12.6 William Scherkenbach: Butterworth Place, yeah.   0:20:14.7 Andrew Stotz: And Butterworth Place where he had his consulting business, which he ran, I believe, out of his basement.   0:20:18.3 William Scherkenbach: Out of the basement, yep, yep, yep.   0:20:21.2 Andrew Stotz: And just out of curiosity, what was it like when you first went to his home? Here, you had met him as your teacher, you respected him, you'd been away for a little bit, he invited you over. What was that like on your first walk into his home?   0:20:38.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, went down the side, the entrance to the basement was on the side of the house, and Seal had her desk set up right by the door. And then, I don't know if you can see, this is neat compared to his desk. It was filled with books and papers, but he knew where everything was. But it was a very cordial atmosphere.   0:21:25.2 Andrew Stotz: So when you mentioned Cecelia Kilian, is that her name, who was his assistant at the time?   0:21:36.3 William Scherkenbach: Yes, yes.   0:21:38.0 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so you...   0:21:38.8 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. For Jeepers. I don't know how long, but it had to be 50 years or so. So I don't, I mean, back in the '70s, I don't know of any other. He might have had, well, okay. He, yeah.   0:22:01.1 Andrew Stotz: I think it's about 40 or 50 years. So that's an incredible relationship he had with her. And I believe she wrote something. I think I have one of her, a book that she wrote that described his life. I can't remember that one right now but...   0:22:14.2 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. A lot of, yeah, it contained a lot of...   0:22:16.6 Andrew Stotz: The World of Dr. W. Edwards Deming, I think was the name of it, yeah.   0:22:20.6 William Scherkenbach: Okay. It contained a lot of his diaries on a number of his visits to Japan and elsewhere.   0:22:32.1 Andrew Stotz: So for some of us, when we go into our professor's offices, we see it stacked full of papers, but they've been sitting there for years. And we know that the professor just doesn't really do much with it. It's just all sitting there. Why did he have so much stuff on it? Was it incoming stuff that was coming to him? Was it something he was writing? Something he was reading? What was it that was coming in and out of his desk?   0:22:55.7 William Scherkenbach: A combination of stuff. I don't know. I mean, he was constantly writing, dictating to seal, but writing and reading. He got a, I mean, as the decades proceeded out of into the '80s, after '82, the NBC white or the '80, the NBC white paper calls were coming in from all over, all over the world. So yeah, a lot of people sending him stuff.   0:23:35.8 Andrew Stotz: I remember seeing him pulling out little scraps of paper at the seminar where he was taking notes and things like that at '90. So I could imagine he was just prolific at jotting things down. And when you read what he wrote, he really is assembling a lot of the notes and things that he's heard from different people. You can really capture that.   0:23:59.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. He didn't have an identic memory, but he took notes and quite, you know, and what he would do at the end of the day before retiring, he'd review the notes and commit them to memory as best he could. So he, yeah, very definitely. I mean, we would, you know, and well, okay. We're still in the early days before Ford and GM, but.   0:24:37.6 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I want to, if I shoot forward to '90, '92, when I studied with him, I was impressed with his energy at his age and he was just on a mission. And when I hear about your discussion about the class and at that time, it's like he was forming his, you know, System of Profound Knowledge, his 14 Points. When do you think it really became a mission for him to help, let's say American industry?   0:25:09.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh, well, I think it was a mission when Ford began its relationship with him. The ability of a large corporation, as well, and Ford at the same time Pontiac, the Pontiac division, not the whole GM, but Pontiac, was learning as well. But the attachment to Ford was that you had Don Peterson at the time was president of Ford, and he was intellectually curious, and he and Deming were on the same frequency. Now, I don't want to jump ahead, but if anyone has, well, you've read my second book there, you'll know that I have mentioned that the way to change is physical, logical, and emotional. And when you look at the gurus back then, there was Deming, who was the logical guru. You had Phil Crosby, who was the emotional guru. You go to the flag and the wine and cheese party, and Deming would say, "No," and Joe Juran, who was interested in focusing on the physical organization, you report to me kind of a thing. And so each of these behemoths were passing each other in the night with the greatest respect. But, but, and so they had their constituents. The challenge is to be able to broaden the appeal.    0:27:33.8 Andrew Stotz: So we've gone through '72, and then now '75, you've written your piece, and he's brought you into the fold. You're starting to spend some time with him. I believe it was about 1981 or so when he started working with Ford. And at that time, the quality director, I think, was Larry Moore at the time. And of course, you mentioned Donald Peterson. Maybe you can help us now understand from your own perspective of what you were doing between that time and how you saw that happening.   0:28:13.4 William Scherkenbach: Well, I had, my career was, after Booz Allen, mostly in the quality reliability area. I went from Booz Allen and Hamilton to, I moved to Columbia, Maryland, because I can fondly remember my grandfather in Ironwood, Michigan, worked at the Oliver Mine. There's a lot of iron ore mines up in the UP. ANd he would, and his work, once he got out of the mines later on, was he would cut across the backyard, and his office was right there. And so he would walk home for lunch and take a nap and walk back. And I thought that really was a good style of life. So Columbia, Maryland, was designed by Rouse to be a live-in, work-in community. And so we were gonna, we moved to Columbia, and there was a consulting firm called Hitman Associates, and their specialty was energy and environmental consulting. So did a bunch of that, worked my way up to a vice president. And so, but in '81, Deming said, you know, Ford really is interested. He was convinced, and again, it's déjà vu, he spoke about, when he spoke fondly about his lectures in Japan in 1950 and onward, that he was, he was very concerned that top management needed to be there, because he had seen all the excitement at Stanford during the war, and it died out afterwards, because management wasn't involved.   0:30:42.8 Andrew Stotz: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by the excitement at Stanford? You mean people working together for the efforts of the war, or was there a particular thing that was happening at Stanford?   0:30:51.7 William Scherkenbach: Well, they were, he attributed it to the lack of management support. I mean, they learned SPC. We were able to improve quality of war material or whatever, whoever attended the Stanford courses. But he saw the same thing in Japan and was lucky to, and I'm not sure if it was Ishikawa. I'm just not sure, but he was able to get someone to make the call after a few of the seminars for the engineers to make the call to the top management to attend the next batch. And he was able, he was able to do that. And that he thought was very helpful. I, I, gave them a leg up on whatever steps were next. I'm reminded of a quote from, I think it was Lao Tzu. And he said that someone asked him, "Well, you talk to the king, why or the emperor, why are things so screwed up?" And he said, "Well, I get to talk to him an hour a week and the rest of the time his ears are filled with a bunch of crap." Or whatever the Chinese equivalent of that is. And he said, "Of course the king isn't going to be able to act correctly." Yeah, there are a lot of things that impacted any company that he helped.   0:33:07.6 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because I believe that, I think it was Kenichi Koyanagi.   0:33:15.8 William Scherkenbach: Koyanagi, yes, it was.   0:33:17.8 Andrew Stotz: And it was in 1950 and he had a series of lectures that he did a series of times. But it's interesting that, you know, that seemed like it should have catapulted him, but then to go to where you met him in 1972 and all that, he still hadn't really made his impact in America. And that's, to me, that's a little bit interesting.   0:33:44.4 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, and quite, my take, I mean, you could tell even in '72 and '3 in classes, he was very frustrated that he wasn't being listened to. I mean, he had, his business was expert testimony in statistical design of surveys. He did road truck, truck transport studies to be able to help the interstate commerce commission. And made periodic trips back to Japan, well known in Japan, but frustrated that no one really knew about him or wasn't listening to him in the US. And that was, I mean, for years, that was my, my aim. And that is to help him be known for turning America around, not just Japan. But it's usually difficult. I mean, we did a great job at Ford and GM and a bunch of companies, but it's all dissipated.   0:35:25.9 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because it's not like he just went as a guest and gave a couple of guest lectures. He did about 35 lectures in 1950. About 28 or almost 30 of them were to engineers and technical staff. And then about seven of them were to top level executives. And, you know, one of the quotes he said at the time from those lectures was, "the problem is at the top, quality is made in the boardroom." So just going back, that's 1950, then you meet him in 1970, then in '72, then you start to build this relationship. You've talked about Booz Allen Hamilton. Tell us more about how it progressed into working more with him, in particular Ford and that thing that started in, let's say, 1981 with Ford.   0:36:22.0 William Scherkenbach: Well, again, he was very enthusiastic about Ford because Peterson was very receptive to this, his approach. And again, it's, I think the British philosopher Johnson said, "there's nothing like the prospect of being hung in the morning to heighten a man's senses." So he, Ford had lost a couple billion bucks. They hadn't cashed in like Chrysler. GM lost a bunch too, but that, and Japan had lost a war. So does it take a significant emotional, logical, or physical event? For some folks it does. So he was very encouraged about what he was seeing at Ford. And he had recommended that Ford hire someone to be there full time to coordinate, manage, if you will. And I was one of the people he recommended and I was the one that Ford hired. So I came in as Director of Statistical Methods and Process Improvement. And they set it up outside, as Deming said, they set it up outside the quality. Larry Moore was the Director of Quality and I was Director of Statistical Methods. And that's the way it was set up.   0:38:08.0 Andrew Stotz: Were you surprised when you received that call? How did you feel when you got that call to say, "Why don't you go over there and do this job at Ford?"   0:38:18.6 William Scherkenbach: Oh, extremely, extremely happy. Yeah. Yeah.   0:38:23.1 Andrew Stotz: And so did you, did you move to Michigan or what did you do?   0:38:27.7 Andrew Stotz: I'm sorry?   0:38:29.4 Andrew Stotz: Did you move or what happened next as you took that job?   0:38:32.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh yeah, we were living in Columbia. We moved the family to the Detroit area and ended up getting a house in Northville, which is a Northwest suburb of Detroit.   0:38:49.9 Andrew Stotz: And how long were you at Ford?   0:38:53.8 William Scherkenbach: About five and a half years. And I left Ford because Deming thought that GM needed my help. Things were going well. I mean, had a great, great bunch of associates, Pete Chessa, Ed Baker, Narendra Sheth, and a bunch of, a bunch of other folks. Ed Baker took the directorship when I left. That was my, well, I recommended a number of them, but yeah, he followed on. Deming thought that there was a good organization set up. And me being a glutton for punishment went to, well, not really. A bunch of great, great people in GM, but it's, they were, each of the general managers managed a billion dollar business and a lot of, difficult to get the silos to communicate. And it really, there was not much cooperation, a lot of backstabbing.   0:40:25.0 Andrew Stotz: And how did Dr. Deming take this project on? And what was the relationship between him and, you know, let's say Donald Peterson, who was the running the company and all the people that he had involved, like yourself, and you mentioned about Ed Baker and other people, I guess, Sandy Munro and others that were there. And just curious, and Larry Moore, how did he approach that? That's a huge organization and he's coming in right at the top. What was his approach to handling that?   0:41:02.1 S2  Well, my approach was based on his recommendation that the Director of Statistical Methods should report directly to the president or the chairman, the president typically. And so based on that, I figured that what I would, how we would organize the office, my associates would each be assigned to a key vice president to be their alter ego. So we did it in a, on a divisional level. And that worked, I think, very well. The difficulty was trying to match personalities and expertise to the particular vice president. Ed Baker had very good relations with the Latin American organization, and, and he and Harry Hannett, Harold Hannett helped a lot in developing administrative applications as well. And so we sort of came up with a matrix of organization and discipline. We needed someone for finance and engineering and manufacturing, supply chain, and was able to matrix the office associates in to be able to be on site with those people to get stuff, to get stuff done.   0:43:09.5 Andrew Stotz: And what was your message at that time, and what was Dr. Deming's message? Because as we know, his message has come together very strongly after that. But at that point, it's not like he had the 14 Points that he could give them Out of the Crisis or you could give them your books that you had done. So what was like the guiding philosophy or the main things that you guys were trying to get across?   0:43:35.9 William Scherkenbach: Well, I mean, he had given in, I think, Quality, Productivity, Competitive Position back in the late '70s, and he was doing it through George Washington University, even though Myron Tribus at MIT published it. But it was a series of lectures, and he didn't really, even in the later 70s, didn't have the, the, the 14 Points. And so those came a couple years later, his thinking through, and Profound Knowledge didn't come until much later over a number of discussions of folks. But the, I mean, the key, I mean, my opinion of why it all dropped out is we dropped the ball in not working with the board. And at Ford, we didn't, weren't able to influence the Ford family. And so Peterson retires and Red Poling, a finance guy, steps in and, and everything slowly disintegrates. At least not disintegrates, well, yes. I mean, what was important under Peterson was different. But that happens in any company. A new CEO comes on board or is elected, and they've got their priorities based, as Deming would say, on their evaluation system. What's their, how are they compensated?   0:45:46.8 William Scherkenbach: And so we just didn't spend the time there nor at GM with how do you elect or select your next CEO? And so smaller companies have a better, I would think, well, I don't know. I would imagine smaller companies have a better time of that, especially closely held and family held companies. You could, if you can reach the family, you should be able to get some continuity there.   0:46:23.5 Andrew Stotz: So Donald Peterson stepped down early 1995. And when did you guys make or when did you make your transition from Ford to GM?   0:46:38.5 William Scherkenbach: '88.   0:46:39.6 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so you continued at Ford.   0:46:42.1 William Scherkenbach: The end of '88, yeah, and I left GM in '93, the year Dr. Deming died later. But I had left in, in, well, in order to help him better.   0:47:07.8 Andrew Stotz: And let's now talk about the transition over to General Motors that you made. And where did that come from? Was it Dr. Deming that was recommending it or someone from General Motors? Or what...   0:47:21.4 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, Deming spoke with them and spoke with me. And I was a willing worker to be able to go where he thought I could be most helpful.   0:47:41.9 Andrew Stotz: And was he exasperated or frustrated that for the changes that happened in '95 when Peterson stepped down, he started to see the writing on the wall? Or was he still hopeful?   0:47:55.4 William Scherkenbach: No, Deming died in '93, so he didn't see any of that.   0:47:58.9 Andrew Stotz: No, no, what I mean is when Peterson stepped down, it was about '85. And then you remain at Ford until '88.   0:48:08.0 William Scherkenbach: No, Peterson didn't step down in '85. I mean, he was still there when I left.   0:48:14.0 Andrew Stotz: So he was still chairman at the time.   0:48:17.3 William Scherkenbach: Yeah.   0:48:17.6 Andrew Stotz: Maybe I'm meaning he stepped down from president. So my mistake on that.   0:48:20.3 William Scherkenbach: Oh, but he was there.   0:48:24.3 Andrew Stotz: So when did it start...   0:48:25.9 William Scherkenbach: True. I mean, true, he was still there when Deming had died.   0:48:31.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, okay. So did the whole team leave Ford and go to GM or was it just you that went?   0:48:39.1 William Scherkenbach: Oh, just me. Just me.   0:48:42.8 Andrew Stotz: Okay. And then.   0:48:44.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, because we had set up something that Deming was very pleased with. And so they were, everyone was working together and helping one another.   0:48:59.5 Andrew Stotz: Okay. So then you went to General Motors. What did you do different? What was different in your role? What did you learn from Ford that you now brought to GM? What went right? What went wrong? What was your experience with GM at that time?   0:49:16.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, I've got a, let's see. Remember Bill Hoagland was the person, Hoagland managed Pontiac when Deming helped Pontiac and Ron Moen was involved in the Pontiac. But Bill Hoagland was in one of the reorganizations at GM was head of, he was group, group vice president for Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac. And so I went over and directly reported to him and each of the, I mean, Wendy Coles was in, Gypsy Rainey, although Gypsy was temporary, worked for powertrain and Pontiac and still, but powertrain was where a lot of the expertise was and emphasis was, and then Buick and Cadillac and so, and Oldsmobile. So we, and in addition to that, General Motors had a corporate-wide effort in cooperation with the UAW called the Quality Network. And I was appointed a member of that, of that and, and helped them a lot and as well as the corporate quality office, but focused on Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac.   0:51:18.6 Andrew Stotz: And then tell us about what was your next step in your own personal journey? And then let's now get into how you got more involved with Deming and his teachings and the like.   0:51:32.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, I mean, he would be at GM two and three days a month, and then every quarter he'd be here for, just like Ford, for a four-day seminar. And while at Ford and at GM, I took uh vacation to help him as he gave seminars and met people throughout the world. Even when he was probably 84, 85, I can remember, well, one of the, he always, not always, but he would schedule seminars in England over the Fourth of July because the English don't celebrate that, although he said perhaps they should, but right after the Ascot races. And so he would do four-day seminars. And on one case, we had one series of weeks, the week before Fourth of July, we did a four-day seminar in the US and then went to London to do another four-day seminar. And he went to South Africa for the next four-day seminar with Heero Hacquebord. I didn't go, but I went down to Brazil and I was dragging with that, with that schedule. So he was able to relish and enjoy the helping others. I mean, enjoy triggers a memory. We were at helping powertrain and Gypsy was there, Dr. Gypsy Rainey.    0:53:59.2 William Scherkenbach: And she, we were talking and goofing around and he started being cross at us. And Gypsy said, "Well, aren't we supposed to be having fun?" And Deming said, "I'm having fun." "You guys straighten out." Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, yeah.   0:54:40.6 Andrew Stotz: And for the typical person to imagine a man at the age of 80, 85, traveling around the world. And it's not like you're traveling on vacation in London, you're walking into a room full of people, your energy is up, you're going and it's not like he's giving a keynote speech for an hour, give us a picture of his energy.   0:55:09.5 William Scherkenbach: And over in London, it was brutal because the hotel, I forget what hotel we're in. When he started there, I think it was Dr. Bernard that he wanted to help. And Bernard wasn't available. So he recommended Henry Neave. And so Henry was a good student, a quick learner. So he helped on a few of them. And I can still remember, I mean, the air, it was 4th of July in London and the humidity was there. There's no air conditioning in the hotel. I could remember Henry, please forgive me, but Henry is sitting in his doorway, sitting on a trash can, doing some notes in his skivvies. And it was hot and humid and awful. But so it reminded Deming a lot of the lectures in Japan in 1950, where he was sweating by 8 AM in the morning. So, yeah.   0:56:30.6 Andrew Stotz: What was it that kept him going? Why was he doing this?   0:56:39.5 William Scherkenbach: I think he, again, I don't know. I never asked him that. He was very, to me, he was on a mission. He wanted to be able to help people live better, okay, and take joy in what they do. And so he was, and I think that was the driving thing. And as long as he had the stamina, he was, he was in, in, in heaven.   0:57:21.1 Andrew Stotz: So let's keep progressing now, and let's move forward towards the latter part of Dr. Deming's life, where we're talking about 1990, 1988, 1990, 1992. What changed in your relationship and your involvement with what he was doing, and what changes did you see in the way he was talking about? You had observed him back in 1972, so here he is in 1990, a very, very different man in some ways, but very similar. How did you observe that?   0:57:56.6 William Scherkenbach: Well, toward the end, it was, I mean, it was, it was not, not pleasant to see him up there with oxygen up his nose, and it just, there had to have been a better way. But Nancy Mann was running those seminars, and they did their best to make life comfortable, but there had to have been a better way to, but I don't know what it was. He obviously wanted to continue to do it, and he had help doing it, but I don't know how effective the last year of seminars were.   0:59:01.1 Andrew Stotz: Well, I mean, I would say in some ways they were very effective, because I attended in 1990 and 1992, and I even took a picture, and I had a picture, and in the background of the picture of him is a nurse, and for me, I just was blown away and knocked out. And I think that one of the things for the listeners and the viewers is to ask yourself, we're all busy doing our work, and we're doing a lot of activities, and we're accomplishing things, but for what purpose, for what mission? And I think that that's what I gained from him is that because he had a mission to help, as you said, make the world a better place, make people have a better life in their job, and help people wake up, that mission really drove him.   0:59:57.8 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, and it, it really did. But for me personally, it was just not pleasant to see him suffering.    1:00:09.6 Andrew Stotz: And was he in pain? Was he just exhausted? What was it like behind the scenes when he'd come off stage and take a break?   1:00:18.7 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, yeah.   1:00:20.8 Andrew Stotz: And would he take naps or?   1:00:23.2 William Scherkenbach: In the early days, we'd go to, well, at Ford and GM, we would go out to dinner just about every night and talk and enjoy the conversation. We'd, my wife Mary Ellen, went many, many times. He enjoyed Northville, some of the restaurants there, and enjoyed the Deming martinis after the meetings at the Cosmos Club. So very, very much he enjoyed that, that time off the podium. So, but he couldn't do that in the, in the later years.   1:01:28.7 Andrew Stotz: And let's now try to understand the progression as you progress away from General Motors and did other things. How did your career progress in those years until when you retired or to where you are now? Maybe give us a picture of that.   1:01:51.4 William Scherkenbach: I tried to help. I've developed my view on how to operationalize change, worked for, was vice president of a company in Taiwan, spent a couple of, and before that had helped Dell, and would spend probably ending up a couple of years in PRC and Taiwan, and growing and learning to learn, in my opinion, there's too much generalization of, well, Asians or Chinese or whatever. There are many, many subgroups, and so change has to be bespoke. What will work for one person won't work for another. For instance, trying to talk to a number of Chinese executives saying, drive out fear, and they will, oh, there's no fear here. It's respect. And so, yeah. But that was their sincere belief that what they were doing wasn't instilling fear. But it broadened my perspective on what to do. And then probably 10 years ago, my wife started to come down with Alzheimer's, and while we lived in Austin, Texas, and that I've spent, she died three years ago, but that was pretty much all-consuming. That's where I focused. And now it's been three years. I'm looking, and I'm a year younger than Deming when he started, although he was 79 when he was interviewed for the 1980 White Paper.   1:04:36.3 William Scherkenbach: So I'm in my 80th year. So, and I'm feeling good, and I also would like to help people.   1:04:46.6 Andrew Stotz: And I've noticed on your LinkedIn, you've started bringing out interesting papers and transcripts and so many different things that you've been coming out. What is your goal? What is your mission?   1:05:02.3 William Scherkenbach: Well, I also would like to take the next step and contribute to help the improvement, not just the US, but any organization that shows they're serious for wanting to, wanting to improve. On the hope, and again, it's hope, as Deming said, that to be able to light a few bonfires that would turn into prairie fires that might consume more and more companies. And so you've got to light the match somewhere. And I just don't know. Again, I've been out of it for a number of years, but I just don't know. I know there is no big company besides, well, but even Toyota. I can remember Deming and I were in California and had dinner. Toyoda-san and his wife invited Deming and me to a dinner. And just, I was blown away with what he understood responsibilities were. I don't know, although I do have a Toyota Prius plug-in, which is perfect because I'm getting 99 miles a gallon because during my, doing shopping and whatever here in Pensacola, I never use gas. It goes 50 miles without needing to plug in.   1:07:00.6 William Scherkenbach: And so I do my stuff. But when I drive to Texas or Michigan, Michigan mostly to see the family, it's there. But all over, it's a wonderful vehicle. So maybe they're the only company in the world that, but I don't know. I haven't sat down with their executive.   1:07:26.4 Andrew Stotz: And behind me, I have two of your books, and I just want to talk briefly about them and give some advice for people. The first one is The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity: Roadmaps and Roadblocks, and the second one is Deming's Road to Continual Improvement. Maybe you could just give some context of someone who's not read these books and they're new to the philosophy and all that. How do these books, how can they help them?   1:07:58.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, the first book, Deming asked me to write in, I think it was '84. And I don't remember the first edition, but it might be '85, we got it out. But he asked me to write it, and because he thought I would, I could reach a different audience, and he liked it so much, they handed it out in a number of his seminars for a number of years. So.   1:08:40.7 Andrew Stotz: And there's my original version of it. I'm holding up my...    1:08:47.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, that's a later version.   1:08:49.7 Andrew Stotz: And it says the first printing was '86, I think it said, and then I got a 1991 version, which maybe I got it at one of the, I'm sure I got it at one of the seminars, and I've had it, and I've got marks on it and all that. And Deming on the back of it said, "this book will supplement and enhance my own works in teaching. Mr. Scherkenbach's masterful understanding of a system, of a process, of a stable system, and of an unstable system are obvious and effective in his work as well as in his teaching." And I know that on Deming's Road to Continual Improvement, you do a good amount of discussion at the beginning about the difference between a process and a system to try to help people understand those types of things. How should a reader, where should they start?   1:09:42.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, not with chapter six, as in CI Lewis, but well, I don't know what... I don't remember what chapter six is. As I said, the first book, and a lot of people after that did it, is essentially not regurgitating, but saying in a little bit different words about Deming's 14 Points. What I did on the first book is arrange them in the order that I think, and groupings that I think the 14 Points could be understood better. The second book was, the first half was reviewing the Deming philosophy, and the second half is how you would go about and get it done. And that's where the physiological, emotional, and all of my studies on operationalizing anything.   1:10:55.4 Andrew Stotz: And in chapter three on page 98, you talk about physical barriers, and you talk about physical, logical, emotional. You mentioned a little bit of that when you talked about the different gurus out there in quality, but this was a good quote. It says, Dr. Deming writes about the golfer who cannot improve his game because he's already in the state of statistical control. He points out that you have only one chance to train a person. Someone whose skill level is in statistical control will find great difficulty improving his skills.   1:11:32.1 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, well, you're old enough to know the Fosbury Flop. I mean, for all high jumpers did the straddle in jumping and made some great records, but many of them had difficulty converting their straddle to the Fosbury Flop to go over backwards head first. And that's what got you better performance. So anything, whether it's golf or any skill, if you've got to change somehow, you've got to be able to change the system, which is whether you're in production or whether it's a skill. If you're in control, that's your opportunity to impact the system to get better.   1:12:40.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, and this was Dick Fosbury in 1968, Mexico City Olympics, where he basically went in and blew everybody away by going in and flipping over backwards when everybody else was straddling or scissors or something like that. And this is a great story.   1:12:57.0 William Scherkenbach: You can't do that.   [laughter]   1:12:58.8 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, and it's a great story of something on the outside. An outsider came in and changed the system rather than an existing person within it. And that made me think about when you talked about Ford and having an outsider helping in the different departments. You know, what extent does that reflect the way that we learn? You know, can we learn internally, or do we need outside advice and influence to make the big changes?   1:13:29.7 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. I mean, we had a swim coach, Higgins, at the Naval Academy, and he was known for, again, following in Olympic swimming. And I'm probably going to get the strokes wrong, but there was no such thing as a butterfly stroke. And he used it in swimming the breaststroke, and supposedly the only criteria was recovery had to be underwater with two hands. But I'm screwing up the story, I'm sure, but Higgins rewrote, rewrote the book by doing something a little bit different or drastically different.   1:14:25.4 Andrew Stotz: I'd like to wrap up this fascinating discovery, or journey of discovery of you and your relationship also with Dr. Deming. Let's wrap it up by talking about kind of your final memories of the last days of Dr. Deming and how you kind of put that all in context for your own life. And having this man come in your life and bring you into your life, I'm curious, towards the end of his life, how did you process his passing as well as his contribution to your life?   1:15:08.1 William Scherkenbach: That's, that's difficult and personal. I, he was a great mentor, a great friend, a great teacher, a great person, and with, on a mission with a name and impacted me. I was very, very lucky to be able to, when I look back on it, to recognize, to sign up for his courses, and then the next thing was writing that letter to the editor and fostering that relationship. Very, very, very difficult. But, I mean, he outlived a bunch of folks that he was greatly influenced by, and the mission continues.   1:16:34.1 Andrew Stotz: And if Dr. Deming was looking down from heaven and he saw that you're kind of reentering the fray after, you know, your struggles as you've described with your wife and the loss of your wife, what would he say to you now? What would he say as your teacher over all those years?   1:16:56.3 William Scherkenbach: Do your best.   1:16:59.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, wonderful.   1:17:01.4 William Scherkenbach: He knows, but he knows I know what to do. So, you need to know what to do and then to do the best. But I was, I mean, he was very, he received, and I forget the year, but he was at Ford and he got a call from Cel that his wife was not doing well. And so we, I immediately canceled everything and got him to the airport and he got to spend that last night with his wife. And he was very, very appreciative. So I'm sure he was helping, helping me deal with my wife.   1:17:56.4 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, Bill, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute and myself personally, I want to thank you for this discussion and opening up you know, your journey with Dr. Deming. I feel like I understand Dr. Deming more, but I also understand you more. And I really appreciate that. And for the listeners out there, remember to go to Deming.org to continue your journey. And also let me give you, the listeners and viewers, the resources. First, we have Bill's book, which you can get online, The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity. We have Deming's Road to Continual Improvement, which Bill wrote. But I think even more importantly is go to his LinkedIn. He's on LinkedIn as William Scherkenbach and his tagline is helping individuals and organizations learn, have fun, and make a difference. So if you want to learn, have fun, and make a difference, send him a message. And I think you'll find that it's incredibly engaging. Are there any final words that you want to share with the listeners and the viewers?   1:19:08.9 William Scherkenbach: I appreciate your questions. In thinking about this interview, we barely scratched the surface. There are a ton of other stories, but we can save that for another time.   1:19:26.1 Andrew Stotz: Something tells me we're going to have some fun and continue to have fun in these discussions. So I really appreciate it and it's great to get to know you. Ladies and gentlemen.   1:19:36.7 William Scherkenbach: Thank you, Andrew.   1:19:37.7 Andrew Stotz: You're welcome. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'm going to leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, and that is that "people are entitled to joy in work."    

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 03-30-24   Guests & Topics: Jonathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore Director of Community Relations  Dream Extreme Derby May 18th.  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint Landing  Rock fish opening April 1 Fresh water report Andrew Mack   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 04-06-24   Guests & Topics: Last Radio Show 10 year Anniversary  Great memories  Ron Hobbs Ben Secrest Larry Moore Steve Carson Tony Williams Andrew Mack Danny Jackson The one and Only Sergio Thank you all !   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 03-23-24   Guests & Topics: Andrew Mack fresh water report Steve Carson Pen fishing university  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint landing Enterprise  Lake Isabella fishing derby starts today Lake Elsinore fishing derby May 18th  Tuna are running now.    Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 03-16-24   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Lake Elsinore Johnathan Oliver Skinner Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint Landing   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 03-02-24   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  PCS show starts March 7 thru the 10 Orange County fair grounds Bill DePriest PCS shows Kyle Tibbets Turners Outdoorsman  Danny Jackson AC tv Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey    Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 02-17-24   Guests & Topics: Fresh Water Report Andrew Mack Johnathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore  Dream Xtreme Derby Information  Captain TJ Schlick Owner operator Eldorado  Captain Will Houge   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 02-10-24   Guests & Topics: Fin and feather New this week  Dream Extreme lake Elsinore date set  Danny Jackson AC tv  Schedule coming out soon   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 02-03-24   Guests & Topics: Mack's fish report  Johnathan Oliver Skinner lake Elsinore  Capt Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey fishing PCS show  Steve Carson  Get your gear ready for next year   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 01-27-24   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Andrew Mack Sergio Steve Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey  Danny Jackson AC TV  Fin and Feather  Lake Elsinore Johnathan Oliver Skinner   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 01-20-24   Guests & Topics: Pat McDonell the Bart Hall Shows Bart Hall Bart Hall Shows Michael Nguyen Turners Outdoorsman  Danny Jackson AC TV    Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 01-13-24   Guests & Topics: Andrew Mack fresh water report Welcome back Sergio  Capt Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing  Steve Carson Penn Fishing University    Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Two hours of DramaFirst a look at this day in History.Then Rocky Fortune starring Frank Sinatra, originally broadcast January 12, 1954, 70 years ago, Rodeo Murder. Rocky is framed for murder at the rodeo. Followed by Out of the Deep, originally broadcast January 12, 1946, 78 years ago, Gary Bronson Stows Away. Young Gary Bronson stows away on the "Blue Falcon" as it heads toward Eritrea to dive for sunken Italian war ships and freighters. Young Gary comes in handy when big Eric Sorenson goes berserk while sitting atop a cargo of mines in a sunken ship!Then The Story of Dr. Kildare starring Lew Ayers and Lionel Barrymore, originally broadcast January 12, 1951, 73 years ago, Dr. Gillespie's Testimonial Dinner. Dr. Gillespie is having a testimonial dinner held in his honor. Followed by Broadway Is My Beat starring Larry Thor, originally broadcast January 12, 1952, 72 years ago, The Larry Moore Murder Case. Soon after John Welch is acquitted of killing his wife, he swears he's going to get the real killer. Larry Moore is soon found beaten up by John Welch, and later that day is found dead!Finally Fibber McGee and Molly, originally broadcast January 12, 1955, 69 years ago, Do or Diet. Doc Gamble tells Fibber and Molly to go on diets. Thanks to Eric for supporting our podcast by using the Buy Me a Coffee function at http://classicradio.stream

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 01-06-24   Guests & Topics: Mack's fish report Tony Williams in studio lobster report Steve Carson Penn fishing University  Captain Rick Scott live from Montana  Danny Jackson AC TV  Return to the Show Sergio   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 12-30-23   Guests & Topics: Mack fish report Steve Carson Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey fishing Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint landing Johnathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore Danny Jackson. AC TV.   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 12-23-23   Guests & Topics: Andrew Mack fresh water report Steve Carson long range trip Tips on fishing long range  Joe Fin and Feather opening Jan 13 Capt Don Ashley Pierpoint landing Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey  Danny Jackson AC filming  Jonathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore Launchpointe   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 12-16-23   Guests & Topics: Join Sergio Andrew Steve Fresh water report Steve's trip Upcoming events Lake Elsinore  Tips on fishing   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 12-09-23   Guests & Topics: Andrew Mack Tony Williams In the house Fresh water report  Trout stocking going strong  Tuna still here Gearing up for Rock Fish     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 12-02-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Tips and Tackle   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 11-25-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water General topics fresh and salt water Ben Seacrest  Equipment needed     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 11-18-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Eldorado trip tuna Ocean Odyssey Fishing     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 11-11-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Tuna tuna  Eldorado trip up coming Tips for fishing   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Larry Moore Jr., the new boys basketball head coach at St. Francis de Sales (IL), joins DeJuan Marrero and Jim Dedelow on the podcast. We talk about Coach Moore's recent move from Hammond Central, the rebuilding era of his St. Francis basketball team, and his goals for this season. DeJuan Marrero Social Media YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UC5uNsn8rQXbVM2wOAoVC1hw?view_as=subscriber Spotify Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2lcn... Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dejuanmarrero/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedmpodcast_/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/dejuanmarrero?lan... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dejuan.marrero WJOB: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.wjob1230.com/⁠⁠

Richmond, VA's rock 'n' roll outfit, Red Reign, has unleashed a sonic storm with their latest album, "Don't Look Back," affirming their status as a formidable presence in the music scene. Released on October 27th, 2023, the album is a testament to the band's evolution, blending classic and modern rock influences into a cohesive and impactful collection of tracks. Led by the dynamic Carlton "Bubba" McMichael on vocals and guitar, Red Reign is a powerhouse quartet, with Sammy Lee on drums, Larry Moore on bass, and the electrifying Stevie Shred on guitar. Together, they create a sonic tapestry that weaves together the best of rock traditions with a contemporary edge. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/wewriteaboutmusic/support

A song Sinatra did not record . . . but one that he might have embraced, Cole Porter's Dream Dancing.  Here is the wonderfully talented Rebecca Luker from her 1996 album “Anything Goes - Rebecca Luker Sings Cole Porter.”  Arranged by Larry Moore and conducted by Patrick Brady. Credits:Theme music by Erik Blicker and Glenn SchlossEdited by Katie CaliMixing and mastering by Amit Zangi Send comments to sinatramatters@gmail.com

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 11-04-23   Guests & Topics: Andrew fresh water report Steve Carson  Sergio Johnathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore update Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 10-28-23   Guests & Topics: Mack's fish report Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey fishing  New trip added 1.5 day Nov 5 departs 7pm  New Angler Chronicles friend Ronnie. She talks about the great fun time she had on board the Ocean Odyssey  Tuna tuna.  Yellowfin tuna and Bluefin   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 10-21-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Lake Elsinore Octoberfest Day of the Dead Danny Jackson what's on Angler Chronicles Tv Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing  Great Trip on the Eldorado  Upcoming events   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 10-15-23   Guests & Topics: Andrew Mack fresh water report Ron salt water report  Tuna tips captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing Upcoming trips Taco Tuesday wear a costume. Bar is also having costume party   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 10-07-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Andrew In studio Oliver Solis Fishing Syndicate Custom Rods Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint Landing   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 09-30-23   Guests & Topics: Tuna talk Ben Seacrest and Sergio  Talk about catching tuna     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 09-23-23   Guests & Topics: Fish report  Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey fishing  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint Landing  Lake Elsinore update Tuna gear needed Sergio live from the east cape  Steve Carson  Logan Flaxington report on the 3 day trip     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 09-16-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water  Fishers of Men  Tuna on the Clemente Dana Wharf Sportfishing and whale watching     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 09-09-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey fishing Johnathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore     Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 09-02-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Andrew Lake Elsinore update Captain TJSchlick Eldorado Sportfishing  Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing Trip aboard Helena  Caller Ross  What to use for trout catfish fishing      Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 08-26-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Andrew Mack Salt water fishing is outstanding  What should you use for tuna  What's new on Angler Chronicles TV   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 08-19-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Sergio live from British Columbia  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint Landing Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing Steve Carson Johnathan Oliver Skinner Lake Elsinore   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 08-12-23 Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Lake Elsinore Report Morro Bay Report Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Sportfishing  Captain TJ Schlick Eldorado Sportfishing   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 08-05-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh Water report Andrew and Tony Captain TJ Eldorado Sportfishing Long Beach Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Sportfishing  Great Bite going on all species.  Steve Carson. Trip wide open bites.   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 07-29-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Andrew  Salt water report  Oliver Solis Fishing Syndicate what coming out new Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Fishing Captain Don Ashley   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 07-22-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Saltwater report  Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Captain Tanner Helena Sportfishing  Danny Jackson Angler Chronicles TV   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 07-15-23   Guests & Topics: Jim Hendricks CCA Fresh water report Andrew Mack Salt water report  Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Sportfishing  Captain Tanner Helena  Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 07-08-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report Andrew Mack  Salt water report  Fishing is getting better  Tuna taking off   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 07-01-23   Guests & Topics: Fresh water report  Pending and world records Salt water report  Reel specks Capt. Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey  Steve Carson 8 day trip.   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 06-24-23   Guests & Topics: Captain TJ Eldorado Sportfishing  Captain Rick Scott Ocean Odyssey Sportfishing Captain Don Ashley Pierpoint Landing  Fresh Water report  Salt water report  Day At Lake Elsinore July 20th   Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Angler Chronicles Radio Show (http://www.anglerchronicles.com/) Recorded: 06-17-23   Guests & Topics: Happy Father's Day  Olive Creast Derby Long Beach Yacht Club  Tuna Wars ACFishing School Dana Wharf Sun Fun Captain Brian Woolley    Join Sergio & the Crew: Ron Hobbs (AC Fishing Schools Instructor), Capt. Larry Moore and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fishing) every Saturday morning on Angler Chronicles from 5:00-7:00 AM PST on AM 830 KLAA. "LIVE" from Angel Stadium in Anaheim, CA ... Tune in or you can also join us “LIVE” on the web at: www.am830.net Angler Chronicles is the highest rated show in its time slot and one of the highest rated outdoor shows in the nation. Each week, the crew has a variety of guests who discuss topics ranging from bass and trout to all types of saltwater fishing. The crew, consisting of host Sergio Fainsztein, Ron Hobbs (Co-Director AC Fishing Schools), and Tony Williams (Bite-On Fish Attractants) are ready to offer their advice and expertise as well as to answer specific questions from the listeners. Expect to hear regular updates from sportfishing captains including Capt. Rick Scott (Ocean Odyssey), Capt. Chris Pica (Dana Wharf Sportfishing), Capt. Damon Davis (Davey's Locker Sportfishing), and Capt. Rick Oefinger (Marina Del Rey Sportfishing). You can also expect weekly reports on all local fresh and saltwater destinations.  

Throughout 2021, Arizona's dubious review of Maricopa County's 2020 ballots, all 2.1 million of them, was a national spectacle. Long before that effort concluded that President Joe Biden won by slightly more votes than the certified results showed, it was obvious that Doug Logan and his Cyber Ninjas team were partisans with no experience conducting what Republicans billed as a forensic audit. Over the nearly two years since then, litigation from the Arizona Republic and others have led to the public release of 39,000 messages involving Logan, the one-time CEO of the now defunct Cyber Ninjas. Yet despite the immense volume of now public information, we're still missing 3,000 documents from Logan. This in spite of a court order to release them. It's not clear why Logan continues to hold on to these documents. But one thing is certain the state Senate's "audit" was anything but professional or fair. In this episode of The Gaggle, hosts Ron Hansen and Mary Jo Pitzl unpack what information Arizonans do have from Dough Logan's documents, what is still missing, and why it matters for voters moving forward. Republic reporter Ryan Randazzo examined documents along with Larry Moore, the founder of the Boston-based election technology company Clear Ballot Group. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

DeJuan Marrero sits down with Hammond Central's Head Boys Basketball Coach, Larry Moore to discuss their season, his expectations for post season, and the winning culture he created in Hammond and much more. DeJuan Marrero Social Media YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UC5uNsn8rQXbVM2wOAoVC1hw?view_as=subscriber Spotify Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2lcn... Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dejuanmarrero/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedmpodcast_/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/dejuanmarrero?lan... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dejuan.marrero