Podcasts about Hoagland

What was it like to learn from Dr. Deming himself -- a decade before his name became legend in U.S. business circles? In this deeply personal episode, William Scherkenbach shares with host Andrew Stotz what it was like to sit in Deming's classroom in 1972, join him for late-night chats at the Cosmos Club, and help ignite transformational change at Ford and GM. Learn how Deming's teachings shaped a lifetime of purpose, and why Scherkenbach, now in his 80th year, is stepping back into the arena with lessons still burning bright. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.3 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today, I'm here with featured guest William Scherkenbach, and he is known as one of the men who has spent a huge amount of time with Dr. Deming, as he mentioned to me previously, starting from 1972, over a thousand meetings and many other activities that he's been involved in. So, Bill, welcome to the show. Why don't you give us a little background about you?   0:00:39.5 William Scherkenbach: Oh, okay. Good to be here, Andrew. Well, I'm going to start with, since it's about Deming, in '72, I was newly married in April, but had been accepted to NYU Graduate School of Business, and I don't know, I never found out who wrote the course syllabus, but whoever did wrote something that it sounded like a darn interesting course, sampling, manufacturing. I was a protocol officer at the United Nations at the time and was going to night school at the New York University Graduate School of Business. So, I said, this sounds like a good course, interesting course. Had no idea who Dr. Deming was, and I walked into the first class, and there was an old, I'm 26, so he was 72 in 1972, and he was one of the first, one of the only old person who didn't say, I used to be, and I don't want to stereotype all of my peers now that I'm 79, but hopefully I don't fall into the, well, I used to be and what happened. But he did tell, I mean, statistics can be a very technical subject, and the way he taught it, I had courses in some theory of sampling, which was one of his books.   0:02:52.2 William Scherkenbach: He had three, I said three courses. The other course that I took was based on his lectures in Japan in 1950, and in fact, two of them. The third course was an extension of that. So, he was, he would teach the statistics, but he was able to tell the history of the people behind all of the thoughts and the formulas and approaches, and I found that extremely, extremely interesting. And he handed out tons of papers and material, and it was just a very, very good experience. I know he had, and he had, in my opinion, a great sense of humor, but then statisticians, what's our status? Yeah, we're like accountants, in any event. .   0:04:12.2 Andrew Stotz: Why was he teaching? I mean, at 72, most men, you know, maybe women also, but most of us are like, it's the twilight of our years, and we now know he had 30 more years to go, but why was he teaching? And also, what's interesting is when I think about Deming, I think about his overall system of what he's teaching, whereas it's interesting to think about how he taught one relatively narrow subject.   0:04:43.7 William Scherkenbach: I'll get to that as to why I think he was teaching. But yeah, back then there were no 14 Points, no glimmer of Profound Knowledge. It was, not theoretical statistics, but applied statistics with a theory behind it. And he still was really expanding on Shewhart 's work with the difference between enumerative and analytic. He used his own. Now, why he was teaching, years later, probably 1987, so yeah, a bunch of years later, when I was at Ford and I had attended at the time, I attended a senior executive week-long get-together in order to get constancy of purpose or more continuity in the senior executive group. One of the people we brought in was Dr. Peter Kastenbaum. And I found as I attended his lecture in that week-long meeting, he was a student of CI Lewis. And CI Lewis, Deming learned about from Walter Shewhart and his work in the epistemology theory of knowledge. And in any event, Deming, when he was asked, and at the time it was still in the '30s, I think, when he was at the School of Agriculture, or the agriculture department, and bringing in Shewhart, he had tried to get CI Lewis to come talk. And CI said, I would love to, but I have a commitment to my students. And so I can't adjust my schedule.   0:07:33.9 William Scherkenbach: And the students, the people who wanted to learn were sacred. And I think that had a huge impact on Dr. Deming. I mean, he spoke about it a lot. And the way, you know, in a lot of the videos that Clare Crawford-Mason did, lovingly called the old curmudgeon. But for students, he had the greatest empathy and charity for, he just didn't suffer fools gladly. If you showed him that you weren't willing to learn, he took great joy in letting them know where they, where they stood.   0:08:43.1 Andrew Stotz: And one of the things when I went into my first Deming seminar in 1990, so now we're fast forwarding 30 years from when you first met him. It was almost like there was a safe harbor for workers, for young people, for people with open minds. I mean, I didn't, I watched as he didn't suffer fools, but I'm just curious, when you go back to 1972 in those classes, I'm assuming that he was pretty gentle with the students, encouraging them and all that was...   0:09:19.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh, absolutely. In my experience, I mean, if you were by, you know, in a student in graduate school, even though the graduate school of business in New York, down on 90 Church Street, Wall Street area, there were very few people going directly from your bachelor's to the master's program. And so these were people that had probably 10 years experience in business doing stuff. And yet by going to the class, absolutely were willing to learn, listen to different points of view, which is absolutely crucial. As you progress with theory of knowledge to be able to get different perspectives on whatever it is you're trying to look at.   0:10:23.2 Andrew Stotz: I would like to continue on this period of time just because it's a snapshot we don't get that often or that easily. You mentioned CI Lewis, a man who lived from about 1880 to about the year I was born, around 1964-65, and he was known for his understanding and discussion about logic and things like that. But why was CI Lewis someone that was interesting to Dr. Deming? What was the connection from your perspective?   0:10:59.6 William Scherkenbach: Well, my understanding is Shewhart referred to him, and Lewis was a professor at Harvard, and he was in the Peirce, I believe it's called. It looks like Peirce, but it's Peirce School of, or Chair of Philosophy, and Charles Sanders Peirce was a huge, huge influence in epistemology. And so that whole chain of thought or train of thought interested Deming, but it really was, he was introduced to it by Walter Shewhart.    0:11:48.3 Andrew Stotz: There's a famous quote, I believe, by Deming about CI Lewis and his book Mind and the World Order.   0:11:56.0 William Scherkenbach: Mind and the World Order, yeah.   0:11:59.9 Andrew Stotz: Deming said he had to read it six times before he fully understood and could apply its insights. And sometimes I think maybe Dr. Deming was truly inspired by that because when I think about his work, I'm still reading it and rereading it. And just listening to the video that you did many years ago with Tim talking about reduced variation, reduced variation, what he was talking about. Sometimes when we see the big picture, there's many different components of Deming's teachings. But if you had to bring it down to kind of its core, you know, he mentioned on that video that I just watched this morning, he mentioned reduced variation, and that will get you lower costs, happier customers, more jobs. How would you say, after you've looked at it from so many different angles over so many different years, how would you say you would sum up Dr. Deming's message to the world?   0:13:01.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, that's a difficult thing to sum up. Back then, when we did the video, which was in the early '80s, maybe '84, again, he had his 14 Points by then, but he hadn't, it hadn't really, the Profound Knowledge part of that wasn't there. Now, he had used what Shewhart said, and he had read, tried to read CI Lewis, and when he spoke about the connection between theory and questions, that's what he got from Shewhart and, well, and from Lewis, and a bunch of other pragmatist philosophers. So, he, you know, he was influenced by it, and, well, that's all I can say.   0:14:27.5 Andrew Stotz: So, let's go back in time. So, you're sitting in this classroom, you're intrigued, inspired. How did the relationship go at, towards the end of the class, and then as you finished that class, how did you guys keep in touch, and how did the relationship develop?   0:14:51.0 William Scherkenbach: Well, that is an interesting story. I usually am, well, I am introverted. So I had, after I moved from New York, I got a job at Booz Allen and Hamilton in Washington, DC. So in '74, when I got the degree from NYU, we moved to Silver Spring. And obviously, he's lived on Butterworth Place since there was a Butterworth Place. So we were able to, one of the things, and this is, well, I will say it, one of his advice to me, although he gave everyone an A, I later kidded him, he didn't remember that he gave me a B. No, he gave me an A. In any event, but one of his piece of advice was, you really don't need to join ASQC. You know more about quality than any of those inspectors. And so he had learned from the '50s in the past 20 years from the 50s that inspection wasn't going to do it. Well, I didn't take his advice, and I joined ASQC, and I was reading...   0:16:36.1 Andrew Stotz:Which for those who don't know is the American Society for...   0:16:41.6 William Scherkenbach: Quality Control, back then, now it's just the American Society for Quality. I had recommended when we did a big recommendations and forecasts for the year 2000 that quality, it should be the Society for Quality worldwide, but it's ASQ now. Let's see.   0:17:07.7 Andrew Stotz: So he recommended you don't join and you didn't follow his recommendation.    0:17:12.1 William Scherkenbach: I don't join, and I read an article, and it was by a professor in Virginia Tech, and he was showing a c-chart and the data were in control, and his recommendations were to penalize the people that were high and reward the people that were low, which is even back then, Dr. Deming was absolutely on track with that. If your process is in control, it doesn't make any sense to rank order or think that any of them are sufficiently different to reward or penalize. And I had never done this, but it was, I wrote a letter to quality progress. I sent a copy to Dr. Deming, and he said, "By golly, you're right on, that's great." And so I think it probably was '75, yeah, 1975. So I had been a year or so out, and he started inviting me over to his place at Butterworth, and we would go to the Cosmos Club. And that was a logistical challenge because at the time he had, well, his garage was a separate, not attached, it was in the backyard and emptied onto an alley. And he had a huge Lincoln Continental, the ones with the doors that opened from the center.   0:19:29.0 William Scherkenbach: And he would get in and drive and then park it in back of the club and someone would watch over it. But those were some good memories. So that was my introduction to keep contact with him. As I said, I had never done that. I don't think I've written a letter to an editor ever again.   0:20:04.8 Andrew Stotz: And you're mentioning about Butterworth, which is in DC.   0:20:12.6 William Scherkenbach: Butterworth Place, yeah.   0:20:14.7 Andrew Stotz: And Butterworth Place where he had his consulting business, which he ran, I believe, out of his basement.   0:20:18.3 William Scherkenbach: Out of the basement, yep, yep, yep.   0:20:21.2 Andrew Stotz: And just out of curiosity, what was it like when you first went to his home? Here, you had met him as your teacher, you respected him, you'd been away for a little bit, he invited you over. What was that like on your first walk into his home?   0:20:38.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, went down the side, the entrance to the basement was on the side of the house, and Seal had her desk set up right by the door. And then, I don't know if you can see, this is neat compared to his desk. It was filled with books and papers, but he knew where everything was. But it was a very cordial atmosphere.   0:21:25.2 Andrew Stotz: So when you mentioned Cecelia Kilian, is that her name, who was his assistant at the time?   0:21:36.3 William Scherkenbach: Yes, yes.   0:21:38.0 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so you...   0:21:38.8 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. For Jeepers. I don't know how long, but it had to be 50 years or so. So I don't, I mean, back in the '70s, I don't know of any other. He might have had, well, okay. He, yeah.   0:22:01.1 Andrew Stotz: I think it's about 40 or 50 years. So that's an incredible relationship he had with her. And I believe she wrote something. I think I have one of her, a book that she wrote that described his life. I can't remember that one right now but...   0:22:14.2 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. A lot of, yeah, it contained a lot of...   0:22:16.6 Andrew Stotz: The World of Dr. W. Edwards Deming, I think was the name of it, yeah.   0:22:20.6 William Scherkenbach: Okay. It contained a lot of his diaries on a number of his visits to Japan and elsewhere.   0:22:32.1 Andrew Stotz: So for some of us, when we go into our professor's offices, we see it stacked full of papers, but they've been sitting there for years. And we know that the professor just doesn't really do much with it. It's just all sitting there. Why did he have so much stuff on it? Was it incoming stuff that was coming to him? Was it something he was writing? Something he was reading? What was it that was coming in and out of his desk?   0:22:55.7 William Scherkenbach: A combination of stuff. I don't know. I mean, he was constantly writing, dictating to seal, but writing and reading. He got a, I mean, as the decades proceeded out of into the '80s, after '82, the NBC white or the '80, the NBC white paper calls were coming in from all over, all over the world. So yeah, a lot of people sending him stuff.   0:23:35.8 Andrew Stotz: I remember seeing him pulling out little scraps of paper at the seminar where he was taking notes and things like that at '90. So I could imagine he was just prolific at jotting things down. And when you read what he wrote, he really is assembling a lot of the notes and things that he's heard from different people. You can really capture that.   0:23:59.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. He didn't have an identic memory, but he took notes and quite, you know, and what he would do at the end of the day before retiring, he'd review the notes and commit them to memory as best he could. So he, yeah, very definitely. I mean, we would, you know, and well, okay. We're still in the early days before Ford and GM, but.   0:24:37.6 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I want to, if I shoot forward to '90, '92, when I studied with him, I was impressed with his energy at his age and he was just on a mission. And when I hear about your discussion about the class and at that time, it's like he was forming his, you know, System of Profound Knowledge, his 14 Points. When do you think it really became a mission for him to help, let's say American industry?   0:25:09.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh, well, I think it was a mission when Ford began its relationship with him. The ability of a large corporation, as well, and Ford at the same time Pontiac, the Pontiac division, not the whole GM, but Pontiac, was learning as well. But the attachment to Ford was that you had Don Peterson at the time was president of Ford, and he was intellectually curious, and he and Deming were on the same frequency. Now, I don't want to jump ahead, but if anyone has, well, you've read my second book there, you'll know that I have mentioned that the way to change is physical, logical, and emotional. And when you look at the gurus back then, there was Deming, who was the logical guru. You had Phil Crosby, who was the emotional guru. You go to the flag and the wine and cheese party, and Deming would say, "No," and Joe Juran, who was interested in focusing on the physical organization, you report to me kind of a thing. And so each of these behemoths were passing each other in the night with the greatest respect. But, but, and so they had their constituents. The challenge is to be able to broaden the appeal.    0:27:33.8 Andrew Stotz: So we've gone through '72, and then now '75, you've written your piece, and he's brought you into the fold. You're starting to spend some time with him. I believe it was about 1981 or so when he started working with Ford. And at that time, the quality director, I think, was Larry Moore at the time. And of course, you mentioned Donald Peterson. Maybe you can help us now understand from your own perspective of what you were doing between that time and how you saw that happening.   0:28:13.4 William Scherkenbach: Well, I had, my career was, after Booz Allen, mostly in the quality reliability area. I went from Booz Allen and Hamilton to, I moved to Columbia, Maryland, because I can fondly remember my grandfather in Ironwood, Michigan, worked at the Oliver Mine. There's a lot of iron ore mines up in the UP. ANd he would, and his work, once he got out of the mines later on, was he would cut across the backyard, and his office was right there. And so he would walk home for lunch and take a nap and walk back. And I thought that really was a good style of life. So Columbia, Maryland, was designed by Rouse to be a live-in, work-in community. And so we were gonna, we moved to Columbia, and there was a consulting firm called Hitman Associates, and their specialty was energy and environmental consulting. So did a bunch of that, worked my way up to a vice president. And so, but in '81, Deming said, you know, Ford really is interested. He was convinced, and again, it's déjà vu, he spoke about, when he spoke fondly about his lectures in Japan in 1950 and onward, that he was, he was very concerned that top management needed to be there, because he had seen all the excitement at Stanford during the war, and it died out afterwards, because management wasn't involved.   0:30:42.8 Andrew Stotz: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by the excitement at Stanford? You mean people working together for the efforts of the war, or was there a particular thing that was happening at Stanford?   0:30:51.7 William Scherkenbach: Well, they were, he attributed it to the lack of management support. I mean, they learned SPC. We were able to improve quality of war material or whatever, whoever attended the Stanford courses. But he saw the same thing in Japan and was lucky to, and I'm not sure if it was Ishikawa. I'm just not sure, but he was able to get someone to make the call after a few of the seminars for the engineers to make the call to the top management to attend the next batch. And he was able, he was able to do that. And that he thought was very helpful. I, I, gave them a leg up on whatever steps were next. I'm reminded of a quote from, I think it was Lao Tzu. And he said that someone asked him, "Well, you talk to the king, why or the emperor, why are things so screwed up?" And he said, "Well, I get to talk to him an hour a week and the rest of the time his ears are filled with a bunch of crap." Or whatever the Chinese equivalent of that is. And he said, "Of course the king isn't going to be able to act correctly." Yeah, there are a lot of things that impacted any company that he helped.   0:33:07.6 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because I believe that, I think it was Kenichi Koyanagi.   0:33:15.8 William Scherkenbach: Koyanagi, yes, it was.   0:33:17.8 Andrew Stotz: And it was in 1950 and he had a series of lectures that he did a series of times. But it's interesting that, you know, that seemed like it should have catapulted him, but then to go to where you met him in 1972 and all that, he still hadn't really made his impact in America. And that's, to me, that's a little bit interesting.   0:33:44.4 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, and quite, my take, I mean, you could tell even in '72 and '3 in classes, he was very frustrated that he wasn't being listened to. I mean, he had, his business was expert testimony in statistical design of surveys. He did road truck, truck transport studies to be able to help the interstate commerce commission. And made periodic trips back to Japan, well known in Japan, but frustrated that no one really knew about him or wasn't listening to him in the US. And that was, I mean, for years, that was my, my aim. And that is to help him be known for turning America around, not just Japan. But it's usually difficult. I mean, we did a great job at Ford and GM and a bunch of companies, but it's all dissipated.   0:35:25.9 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because it's not like he just went as a guest and gave a couple of guest lectures. He did about 35 lectures in 1950. About 28 or almost 30 of them were to engineers and technical staff. And then about seven of them were to top level executives. And, you know, one of the quotes he said at the time from those lectures was, "the problem is at the top, quality is made in the boardroom." So just going back, that's 1950, then you meet him in 1970, then in '72, then you start to build this relationship. You've talked about Booz Allen Hamilton. Tell us more about how it progressed into working more with him, in particular Ford and that thing that started in, let's say, 1981 with Ford.   0:36:22.0 William Scherkenbach: Well, again, he was very enthusiastic about Ford because Peterson was very receptive to this, his approach. And again, it's, I think the British philosopher Johnson said, "there's nothing like the prospect of being hung in the morning to heighten a man's senses." So he, Ford had lost a couple billion bucks. They hadn't cashed in like Chrysler. GM lost a bunch too, but that, and Japan had lost a war. So does it take a significant emotional, logical, or physical event? For some folks it does. So he was very encouraged about what he was seeing at Ford. And he had recommended that Ford hire someone to be there full time to coordinate, manage, if you will. And I was one of the people he recommended and I was the one that Ford hired. So I came in as Director of Statistical Methods and Process Improvement. And they set it up outside, as Deming said, they set it up outside the quality. Larry Moore was the Director of Quality and I was Director of Statistical Methods. And that's the way it was set up.   0:38:08.0 Andrew Stotz: Were you surprised when you received that call? How did you feel when you got that call to say, "Why don't you go over there and do this job at Ford?"   0:38:18.6 William Scherkenbach: Oh, extremely, extremely happy. Yeah. Yeah.   0:38:23.1 Andrew Stotz: And so did you, did you move to Michigan or what did you do?   0:38:27.7 Andrew Stotz: I'm sorry?   0:38:29.4 Andrew Stotz: Did you move or what happened next as you took that job?   0:38:32.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh yeah, we were living in Columbia. We moved the family to the Detroit area and ended up getting a house in Northville, which is a Northwest suburb of Detroit.   0:38:49.9 Andrew Stotz: And how long were you at Ford?   0:38:53.8 William Scherkenbach: About five and a half years. And I left Ford because Deming thought that GM needed my help. Things were going well. I mean, had a great, great bunch of associates, Pete Chessa, Ed Baker, Narendra Sheth, and a bunch of, a bunch of other folks. Ed Baker took the directorship when I left. That was my, well, I recommended a number of them, but yeah, he followed on. Deming thought that there was a good organization set up. And me being a glutton for punishment went to, well, not really. A bunch of great, great people in GM, but it's, they were, each of the general managers managed a billion dollar business and a lot of, difficult to get the silos to communicate. And it really, there was not much cooperation, a lot of backstabbing.   0:40:25.0 Andrew Stotz: And how did Dr. Deming take this project on? And what was the relationship between him and, you know, let's say Donald Peterson, who was the running the company and all the people that he had involved, like yourself, and you mentioned about Ed Baker and other people, I guess, Sandy Munro and others that were there. And just curious, and Larry Moore, how did he approach that? That's a huge organization and he's coming in right at the top. What was his approach to handling that?   0:41:02.1 S2  Well, my approach was based on his recommendation that the Director of Statistical Methods should report directly to the president or the chairman, the president typically. And so based on that, I figured that what I would, how we would organize the office, my associates would each be assigned to a key vice president to be their alter ego. So we did it in a, on a divisional level. And that worked, I think, very well. The difficulty was trying to match personalities and expertise to the particular vice president. Ed Baker had very good relations with the Latin American organization, and, and he and Harry Hannett, Harold Hannett helped a lot in developing administrative applications as well. And so we sort of came up with a matrix of organization and discipline. We needed someone for finance and engineering and manufacturing, supply chain, and was able to matrix the office associates in to be able to be on site with those people to get stuff, to get stuff done.   0:43:09.5 Andrew Stotz: And what was your message at that time, and what was Dr. Deming's message? Because as we know, his message has come together very strongly after that. But at that point, it's not like he had the 14 Points that he could give them Out of the Crisis or you could give them your books that you had done. So what was like the guiding philosophy or the main things that you guys were trying to get across?   0:43:35.9 William Scherkenbach: Well, I mean, he had given in, I think, Quality, Productivity, Competitive Position back in the late '70s, and he was doing it through George Washington University, even though Myron Tribus at MIT published it. But it was a series of lectures, and he didn't really, even in the later 70s, didn't have the, the, the 14 Points. And so those came a couple years later, his thinking through, and Profound Knowledge didn't come until much later over a number of discussions of folks. But the, I mean, the key, I mean, my opinion of why it all dropped out is we dropped the ball in not working with the board. And at Ford, we didn't, weren't able to influence the Ford family. And so Peterson retires and Red Poling, a finance guy, steps in and, and everything slowly disintegrates. At least not disintegrates, well, yes. I mean, what was important under Peterson was different. But that happens in any company. A new CEO comes on board or is elected, and they've got their priorities based, as Deming would say, on their evaluation system. What's their, how are they compensated?   0:45:46.8 William Scherkenbach: And so we just didn't spend the time there nor at GM with how do you elect or select your next CEO? And so smaller companies have a better, I would think, well, I don't know. I would imagine smaller companies have a better time of that, especially closely held and family held companies. You could, if you can reach the family, you should be able to get some continuity there.   0:46:23.5 Andrew Stotz: So Donald Peterson stepped down early 1995. And when did you guys make or when did you make your transition from Ford to GM?   0:46:38.5 William Scherkenbach: '88.   0:46:39.6 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so you continued at Ford.   0:46:42.1 William Scherkenbach: The end of '88, yeah, and I left GM in '93, the year Dr. Deming died later. But I had left in, in, well, in order to help him better.   0:47:07.8 Andrew Stotz: And let's now talk about the transition over to General Motors that you made. And where did that come from? Was it Dr. Deming that was recommending it or someone from General Motors? Or what...   0:47:21.4 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, Deming spoke with them and spoke with me. And I was a willing worker to be able to go where he thought I could be most helpful.   0:47:41.9 Andrew Stotz: And was he exasperated or frustrated that for the changes that happened in '95 when Peterson stepped down, he started to see the writing on the wall? Or was he still hopeful?   0:47:55.4 William Scherkenbach: No, Deming died in '93, so he didn't see any of that.   0:47:58.9 Andrew Stotz: No, no, what I mean is when Peterson stepped down, it was about '85. And then you remain at Ford until '88.   0:48:08.0 William Scherkenbach: No, Peterson didn't step down in '85. I mean, he was still there when I left.   0:48:14.0 Andrew Stotz: So he was still chairman at the time.   0:48:17.3 William Scherkenbach: Yeah.   0:48:17.6 Andrew Stotz: Maybe I'm meaning he stepped down from president. So my mistake on that.   0:48:20.3 William Scherkenbach: Oh, but he was there.   0:48:24.3 Andrew Stotz: So when did it start...   0:48:25.9 William Scherkenbach: True. I mean, true, he was still there when Deming had died.   0:48:31.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, okay. So did the whole team leave Ford and go to GM or was it just you that went?   0:48:39.1 William Scherkenbach: Oh, just me. Just me.   0:48:42.8 Andrew Stotz: Okay. And then.   0:48:44.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, because we had set up something that Deming was very pleased with. And so they were, everyone was working together and helping one another.   0:48:59.5 Andrew Stotz: Okay. So then you went to General Motors. What did you do different? What was different in your role? What did you learn from Ford that you now brought to GM? What went right? What went wrong? What was your experience with GM at that time?   0:49:16.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, I've got a, let's see. Remember Bill Hoagland was the person, Hoagland managed Pontiac when Deming helped Pontiac and Ron Moen was involved in the Pontiac. But Bill Hoagland was in one of the reorganizations at GM was head of, he was group, group vice president for Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac. And so I went over and directly reported to him and each of the, I mean, Wendy Coles was in, Gypsy Rainey, although Gypsy was temporary, worked for powertrain and Pontiac and still, but powertrain was where a lot of the expertise was and emphasis was, and then Buick and Cadillac and so, and Oldsmobile. So we, and in addition to that, General Motors had a corporate-wide effort in cooperation with the UAW called the Quality Network. And I was appointed a member of that, of that and, and helped them a lot and as well as the corporate quality office, but focused on Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac.   0:51:18.6 Andrew Stotz: And then tell us about what was your next step in your own personal journey? And then let's now get into how you got more involved with Deming and his teachings and the like.   0:51:32.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, I mean, he would be at GM two and three days a month, and then every quarter he'd be here for, just like Ford, for a four-day seminar. And while at Ford and at GM, I took uh vacation to help him as he gave seminars and met people throughout the world. Even when he was probably 84, 85, I can remember, well, one of the, he always, not always, but he would schedule seminars in England over the Fourth of July because the English don't celebrate that, although he said perhaps they should, but right after the Ascot races. And so he would do four-day seminars. And on one case, we had one series of weeks, the week before Fourth of July, we did a four-day seminar in the US and then went to London to do another four-day seminar. And he went to South Africa for the next four-day seminar with Heero Hacquebord. I didn't go, but I went down to Brazil and I was dragging with that, with that schedule. So he was able to relish and enjoy the helping others. I mean, enjoy triggers a memory. We were at helping powertrain and Gypsy was there, Dr. Gypsy Rainey.    0:53:59.2 William Scherkenbach: And she, we were talking and goofing around and he started being cross at us. And Gypsy said, "Well, aren't we supposed to be having fun?" And Deming said, "I'm having fun." "You guys straighten out." Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, yeah.   0:54:40.6 Andrew Stotz: And for the typical person to imagine a man at the age of 80, 85, traveling around the world. And it's not like you're traveling on vacation in London, you're walking into a room full of people, your energy is up, you're going and it's not like he's giving a keynote speech for an hour, give us a picture of his energy.   0:55:09.5 William Scherkenbach: And over in London, it was brutal because the hotel, I forget what hotel we're in. When he started there, I think it was Dr. Bernard that he wanted to help. And Bernard wasn't available. So he recommended Henry Neave. And so Henry was a good student, a quick learner. So he helped on a few of them. And I can still remember, I mean, the air, it was 4th of July in London and the humidity was there. There's no air conditioning in the hotel. I could remember Henry, please forgive me, but Henry is sitting in his doorway, sitting on a trash can, doing some notes in his skivvies. And it was hot and humid and awful. But so it reminded Deming a lot of the lectures in Japan in 1950, where he was sweating by 8 AM in the morning. So, yeah.   0:56:30.6 Andrew Stotz: What was it that kept him going? Why was he doing this?   0:56:39.5 William Scherkenbach: I think he, again, I don't know. I never asked him that. He was very, to me, he was on a mission. He wanted to be able to help people live better, okay, and take joy in what they do. And so he was, and I think that was the driving thing. And as long as he had the stamina, he was, he was in, in, in heaven.   0:57:21.1 Andrew Stotz: So let's keep progressing now, and let's move forward towards the latter part of Dr. Deming's life, where we're talking about 1990, 1988, 1990, 1992. What changed in your relationship and your involvement with what he was doing, and what changes did you see in the way he was talking about? You had observed him back in 1972, so here he is in 1990, a very, very different man in some ways, but very similar. How did you observe that?   0:57:56.6 William Scherkenbach: Well, toward the end, it was, I mean, it was, it was not, not pleasant to see him up there with oxygen up his nose, and it just, there had to have been a better way. But Nancy Mann was running those seminars, and they did their best to make life comfortable, but there had to have been a better way to, but I don't know what it was. He obviously wanted to continue to do it, and he had help doing it, but I don't know how effective the last year of seminars were.   0:59:01.1 Andrew Stotz: Well, I mean, I would say in some ways they were very effective, because I attended in 1990 and 1992, and I even took a picture, and I had a picture, and in the background of the picture of him is a nurse, and for me, I just was blown away and knocked out. And I think that one of the things for the listeners and the viewers is to ask yourself, we're all busy doing our work, and we're doing a lot of activities, and we're accomplishing things, but for what purpose, for what mission? And I think that that's what I gained from him is that because he had a mission to help, as you said, make the world a better place, make people have a better life in their job, and help people wake up, that mission really drove him.   0:59:57.8 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, and it, it really did. But for me personally, it was just not pleasant to see him suffering.    1:00:09.6 Andrew Stotz: And was he in pain? Was he just exhausted? What was it like behind the scenes when he'd come off stage and take a break?   1:00:18.7 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, yeah.   1:00:20.8 Andrew Stotz: And would he take naps or?   1:00:23.2 William Scherkenbach: In the early days, we'd go to, well, at Ford and GM, we would go out to dinner just about every night and talk and enjoy the conversation. We'd, my wife Mary Ellen, went many, many times. He enjoyed Northville, some of the restaurants there, and enjoyed the Deming martinis after the meetings at the Cosmos Club. So very, very much he enjoyed that, that time off the podium. So, but he couldn't do that in the, in the later years.   1:01:28.7 Andrew Stotz: And let's now try to understand the progression as you progress away from General Motors and did other things. How did your career progress in those years until when you retired or to where you are now? Maybe give us a picture of that.   1:01:51.4 William Scherkenbach: I tried to help. I've developed my view on how to operationalize change, worked for, was vice president of a company in Taiwan, spent a couple of, and before that had helped Dell, and would spend probably ending up a couple of years in PRC and Taiwan, and growing and learning to learn, in my opinion, there's too much generalization of, well, Asians or Chinese or whatever. There are many, many subgroups, and so change has to be bespoke. What will work for one person won't work for another. For instance, trying to talk to a number of Chinese executives saying, drive out fear, and they will, oh, there's no fear here. It's respect. And so, yeah. But that was their sincere belief that what they were doing wasn't instilling fear. But it broadened my perspective on what to do. And then probably 10 years ago, my wife started to come down with Alzheimer's, and while we lived in Austin, Texas, and that I've spent, she died three years ago, but that was pretty much all-consuming. That's where I focused. And now it's been three years. I'm looking, and I'm a year younger than Deming when he started, although he was 79 when he was interviewed for the 1980 White Paper.   1:04:36.3 William Scherkenbach: So I'm in my 80th year. So, and I'm feeling good, and I also would like to help people.   1:04:46.6 Andrew Stotz: And I've noticed on your LinkedIn, you've started bringing out interesting papers and transcripts and so many different things that you've been coming out. What is your goal? What is your mission?   1:05:02.3 William Scherkenbach: Well, I also would like to take the next step and contribute to help the improvement, not just the US, but any organization that shows they're serious for wanting to, wanting to improve. On the hope, and again, it's hope, as Deming said, that to be able to light a few bonfires that would turn into prairie fires that might consume more and more companies. And so you've got to light the match somewhere. And I just don't know. Again, I've been out of it for a number of years, but I just don't know. I know there is no big company besides, well, but even Toyota. I can remember Deming and I were in California and had dinner. Toyoda-san and his wife invited Deming and me to a dinner. And just, I was blown away with what he understood responsibilities were. I don't know, although I do have a Toyota Prius plug-in, which is perfect because I'm getting 99 miles a gallon because during my, doing shopping and whatever here in Pensacola, I never use gas. It goes 50 miles without needing to plug in.   1:07:00.6 William Scherkenbach: And so I do my stuff. But when I drive to Texas or Michigan, Michigan mostly to see the family, it's there. But all over, it's a wonderful vehicle. So maybe they're the only company in the world that, but I don't know. I haven't sat down with their executive.   1:07:26.4 Andrew Stotz: And behind me, I have two of your books, and I just want to talk briefly about them and give some advice for people. The first one is The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity: Roadmaps and Roadblocks, and the second one is Deming's Road to Continual Improvement. Maybe you could just give some context of someone who's not read these books and they're new to the philosophy and all that. How do these books, how can they help them?   1:07:58.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, the first book, Deming asked me to write in, I think it was '84. And I don't remember the first edition, but it might be '85, we got it out. But he asked me to write it, and because he thought I would, I could reach a different audience, and he liked it so much, they handed it out in a number of his seminars for a number of years. So.   1:08:40.7 Andrew Stotz: And there's my original version of it. I'm holding up my...    1:08:47.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, that's a later version.   1:08:49.7 Andrew Stotz: And it says the first printing was '86, I think it said, and then I got a 1991 version, which maybe I got it at one of the, I'm sure I got it at one of the seminars, and I've had it, and I've got marks on it and all that. And Deming on the back of it said, "this book will supplement and enhance my own works in teaching. Mr. Scherkenbach's masterful understanding of a system, of a process, of a stable system, and of an unstable system are obvious and effective in his work as well as in his teaching." And I know that on Deming's Road to Continual Improvement, you do a good amount of discussion at the beginning about the difference between a process and a system to try to help people understand those types of things. How should a reader, where should they start?   1:09:42.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, not with chapter six, as in CI Lewis, but well, I don't know what... I don't remember what chapter six is. As I said, the first book, and a lot of people after that did it, is essentially not regurgitating, but saying in a little bit different words about Deming's 14 Points. What I did on the first book is arrange them in the order that I think, and groupings that I think the 14 Points could be understood better. The second book was, the first half was reviewing the Deming philosophy, and the second half is how you would go about and get it done. And that's where the physiological, emotional, and all of my studies on operationalizing anything.   1:10:55.4 Andrew Stotz: And in chapter three on page 98, you talk about physical barriers, and you talk about physical, logical, emotional. You mentioned a little bit of that when you talked about the different gurus out there in quality, but this was a good quote. It says, Dr. Deming writes about the golfer who cannot improve his game because he's already in the state of statistical control. He points out that you have only one chance to train a person. Someone whose skill level is in statistical control will find great difficulty improving his skills.   1:11:32.1 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, well, you're old enough to know the Fosbury Flop. I mean, for all high jumpers did the straddle in jumping and made some great records, but many of them had difficulty converting their straddle to the Fosbury Flop to go over backwards head first. And that's what got you better performance. So anything, whether it's golf or any skill, if you've got to change somehow, you've got to be able to change the system, which is whether you're in production or whether it's a skill. If you're in control, that's your opportunity to impact the system to get better.   1:12:40.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, and this was Dick Fosbury in 1968, Mexico City Olympics, where he basically went in and blew everybody away by going in and flipping over backwards when everybody else was straddling or scissors or something like that. And this is a great story.   1:12:57.0 William Scherkenbach: You can't do that.   [laughter]   1:12:58.8 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, and it's a great story of something on the outside. An outsider came in and changed the system rather than an existing person within it. And that made me think about when you talked about Ford and having an outsider helping in the different departments. You know, what extent does that reflect the way that we learn? You know, can we learn internally, or do we need outside advice and influence to make the big changes?   1:13:29.7 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. I mean, we had a swim coach, Higgins, at the Naval Academy, and he was known for, again, following in Olympic swimming. And I'm probably going to get the strokes wrong, but there was no such thing as a butterfly stroke. And he used it in swimming the breaststroke, and supposedly the only criteria was recovery had to be underwater with two hands. But I'm screwing up the story, I'm sure, but Higgins rewrote, rewrote the book by doing something a little bit different or drastically different.   1:14:25.4 Andrew Stotz: I'd like to wrap up this fascinating discovery, or journey of discovery of you and your relationship also with Dr. Deming. Let's wrap it up by talking about kind of your final memories of the last days of Dr. Deming and how you kind of put that all in context for your own life. And having this man come in your life and bring you into your life, I'm curious, towards the end of his life, how did you process his passing as well as his contribution to your life?   1:15:08.1 William Scherkenbach: That's, that's difficult and personal. I, he was a great mentor, a great friend, a great teacher, a great person, and with, on a mission with a name and impacted me. I was very, very lucky to be able to, when I look back on it, to recognize, to sign up for his courses, and then the next thing was writing that letter to the editor and fostering that relationship. Very, very, very difficult. But, I mean, he outlived a bunch of folks that he was greatly influenced by, and the mission continues.   1:16:34.1 Andrew Stotz: And if Dr. Deming was looking down from heaven and he saw that you're kind of reentering the fray after, you know, your struggles as you've described with your wife and the loss of your wife, what would he say to you now? What would he say as your teacher over all those years?   1:16:56.3 William Scherkenbach: Do your best.   1:16:59.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, wonderful.   1:17:01.4 William Scherkenbach: He knows, but he knows I know what to do. So, you need to know what to do and then to do the best. But I was, I mean, he was very, he received, and I forget the year, but he was at Ford and he got a call from Cel that his wife was not doing well. And so we, I immediately canceled everything and got him to the airport and he got to spend that last night with his wife. And he was very, very appreciative. So I'm sure he was helping, helping me deal with my wife.   1:17:56.4 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, Bill, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute and myself personally, I want to thank you for this discussion and opening up you know, your journey with Dr. Deming. I feel like I understand Dr. Deming more, but I also understand you more. And I really appreciate that. And for the listeners out there, remember to go to Deming.org to continue your journey. And also let me give you, the listeners and viewers, the resources. First, we have Bill's book, which you can get online, The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity. We have Deming's Road to Continual Improvement, which Bill wrote. But I think even more importantly is go to his LinkedIn. He's on LinkedIn as William Scherkenbach and his tagline is helping individuals and organizations learn, have fun, and make a difference. So if you want to learn, have fun, and make a difference, send him a message. And I think you'll find that it's incredibly engaging. Are there any final words that you want to share with the listeners and the viewers?   1:19:08.9 William Scherkenbach: I appreciate your questions. In thinking about this interview, we barely scratched the surface. There are a ton of other stories, but we can save that for another time.   1:19:26.1 Andrew Stotz: Something tells me we're going to have some fun and continue to have fun in these discussions. So I really appreciate it and it's great to get to know you. Ladies and gentlemen.   1:19:36.7 William Scherkenbach: Thank you, Andrew.   1:19:37.7 Andrew Stotz: You're welcome. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'm going to leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, and that is that "people are entitled to joy in work."    

Richard Hoagland, exsubsecretario de Estado Adjunto, habló en La W sobre la amenaza del presidente Donald Trump a su homólogo ruso Vladimir Putin con imponer aranceles del 100% si no hay un alto al fuego en Ucrania.

When a 911 call came in about a 12-year-old girl who had been in an accident, first responders expected a routine emergency. What they found instead raised questions that no one seemed ready to answer. We're going to follow the events that began on May 4, 2024, and trace how a child's suffering was hidden. As investigators started putting the puzzle pieces together, a dark truth appeared. This is the story of Malinda Hoagland.Connect with Paige:Instagram: instagram.com/reverietruecrime TikTok: tiktok.com/@paige.elmore Facebook: facebook.com/reverietruecrime Twitter/X: twitter.com/reveriecrimepod BlueSky: reverietruecrime.bsky.social Tumblr: reverietruecrimepodcast.tumblr.com Intro and Outro by Jahred Gomes: https://www.instagram.com/jahredgomes_officialSources:https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/girl-death-investigation-chester-county-pennsylvania/3852335/https://www.newspapers.com/image/1068771918https://www.newspapers.com/image/1079593477https://nypost.com/2024/05/13/us-news/malinda-hoagland-12-weighed-just-50-pounds-when-she-died-from-abuse/https://www.poconorecord.com/story/news/crime/2024/05/17/malinda-hoagland-sisters-statement-chester-county/73736757007/https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/cindy-warren-arrest-child-abuse-malinda-hoagland-chester-county-children-youth-and-families/https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/video/cindy-warren-child-abuse-arrest-malinda-hoagland-chester-county/https://people.com/police-say-pa-girl-12-died-abuse-committed-by-father-his-girlfriend-her-sisters-want-change-8673395https://www.newspapers.com/image/1113863554https://www.newspapers.com/image/1113864554https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/malinda-hoagland-chester-county-pennsylvania-child-abuse-case-update/https://www.wgal.com/article/chester-county-da-will-seek-death-penalty-against-couple-charged-with-murder-of-12-year-old/61703156https://www.kxan.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/730405875/malinda-hoagland-suffered-tremendous-torture-and-abuse-before-preventable-death-family-seeks-accountability-and-answers/https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/couple-charged-with-killing-girl-after-torturing-abusing-her-for-years-da-says/3923727/https://6abc.com/post/rendell-hoagland-cindy-warren-charged-degree-murder-girl/15094847/https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/was-enough-done-to-protect-malinda-hoagland-child-advocate-weighs-in-on-the-case/3924029/https://lawandcrime.com/crime/prosecutors-will-seek-death-penalty-for-dad-and-stepmom-accused-of-calculated-and-systematic-torture-and-abuse-that-killed-12-year-old-girl/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13681057/malinda-hoagland-death-rendell-cindy-warren-murder-charges-update.htmlhttps://www.dailylocal.com/2024/07/29/chester-county-prosecutor-describes-incredible-team-that-worked-on-childs-murder-case/https://www.fox29.com/news/malinda-hoagland-family-files-lawsuits-over-alleged-missed-red-flags-horrific-death-chester-county-girlhttps://6abc.com/post/malinda-hoagland-child-abuse-death-lawsuit-parents-murder-chester-county/15186397/https://www.dailylocal.com/2024/08/14/half-sisters-of-malinda-hoagland-12-year-old-murder-victim-file-suit-against-chester-county-local-school-district/https://www.newspapers.com/image/1109100484https://www.newspapers.com/image/1113865043https://www.newspapers.com/image/1113864554https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/malinda-hoagland-murder-father-girlfriend-court/https://www.dailylocal.com/2024/08/29/couple-charged-in-death-of-malinda-hoagland-waive-preliminary-hearing/https://www.newspapers.com/image/1124847386https://www.newspapers.com/image/1124847796https://www.newspapers.com/image/1124847790https://www.newspapers.com/image/1115516979https://www.mainlinemedianews.com/2024/09/12/death-penalty-sought-for-chester-county-couple-accused-in-death-of-12-year-old-girl/https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/malinda-hoagland-chester-county-pennsylvania-abuse/https://www.chesco.org/DocumentCenter/View/76703/Hoagland-criminal-complaint-May-2024?bidId=https://monroecountyda.com/districtattorney/commonwealth-v-mckinley-warren/https://www.poconorecord.com/story/news/crime/2009/01/22/child-killer-s-wife-sentenced/52123704007/https://monroecountyda.com/publicdocs/monroecountywarrencomplaint.pdfhttps://www.poconorecord.com/story/news/crime/2008/12/09/police-prosecutors-recount-history-child/52169885007/https://www.mcall.com/2008/12/09/on-brink-of-trial-monroe-man-admits-killing-his-child-mckinley-warren-jr-also-beat-a-son-he-gets-25-50-years/https://www.keanelaw.com/blog/mckinley-warren-jr-has-pled-guilty-to-charges-of-thirddegree-murder-and-aggravated-assault-in-tw.cfmBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/reverie-true-crime--4442888/support.

Art Bell - R.C. Hoagland - Future of Earth

Robert "Hoagy" Hoagland lived in Newtown, Connecticut, with his wife, Laurie, and one young adult son. The couple had two other sons. Hoagy was a part-time paralegal, former chef and had his real estate appraiser's license. He was your all-around, average and average-looking 50-something-year-old guy. Until Sunday, July 28, 2013. Hoagy got up early, went to get bagels for him and his son and then paid some bills. He went out to mow the lawn and was seen by a neighbor around 11 am. At noon, his son Max asked to use the car and Hoagy let him. When Max returned a few hours later, his Dad was gone.Hoagy was supposed to pick up his wife at JFK airport the next day, Monday, July 29th, but he never showed. When he still wasn't back by Tuesday, Laurie reported him as a missing person. All of the family vehicles were accounted for, and Hoagy had left behind his keys, wallet, thousands of dollars in cash in a home safe and his daily medication. Hoagy's family never heard from him again. It was as if he literally just disappeared. Until 10 years later, when his wife, his sons and investigators would get the shock of their lives.Show Notes: https://podtail.com/en/podcast/wicked-deeds/

What's Your Plan? Is a podcast hosted by Noel A Evans, a DC based long term care insurance specialist. Noel combines his 16 years experience and connections in the industry to provide resources and education to podcast listeners to help them address the long term care and caregiving challenges. Noel's guests are all specialists in various industries around long term care and caregiving and our goal is to help people begin the planning process in some way.

We spoke to my Chicago yoga instructor about meditation and a regular yoga practice. Thank you, Lance, for being a great teacher and informative guest. https://www.rickymceachernartist.com

This week's Open Mic guest is Bill Hoagland, Senior Vice President of the Bipartisan Policy Center. In a day where Washington faces mounting issues of government outlays and rising national debt, Hoagland say partisanship must give way to solutions that maintain essential federal programs and services. Hoagland provides key insights on budget reconciliation, DOGE, tax reform, a farm bill and the debt ceiling, which are all critical issues facing the 119thCongress.

Space research pioneer, Richard. C. Hoagland has been rigorously analyzing photos sent back to Earth from the Firefly Aerospace Blue Ghost moon lander and believes that he sees clearglass domes arching over Mare Crisium. Several years ago, Hoagland discovered a face and many tetrahedrons on Mars, suggesting there was a hidden city or gathering place on the Red Planet. Reports that we may be uncovering proof of alien artifacts seem closer to disclosing a face-to-face contact with E.T. Tonight on Ground Zero (7-10 pm, pacific time on groundzeroplus.com), Clyde Lewis talks with space investigator and author Richard C. Hoagland about MARS-A-LARGO.

I'm thrilled to have Lexi Hoagland on the podcast today! Lexi is the founder of Cowgirls & Cocktails and works in sales and partnerships for Lane Boots.  In this episode, Lexi shares her background of growing up a triplet in Denver, Colorado. She didn't grow up in the western or agriculture industries but while attending college in Arkansas, she fell in love with the south. From moving to Nashville and working the CMA Fest to moving to Dallas to work at a construction company, along the way she fell in love with the romance of the western industry.  Lexi gives a deep dive into Cowgirls & Cocktails- a social club dedicated to building a longer table for women in the western and agriculture industries. Her desire to connect people and create a sense of community kept her persistent in seeing success. She's an inspiration as she focuses on maximizing mentorship and models that growth equals happiness. Resources & Links: Lane Boots Nuuly Join The Directory Of The West Get our FREE resource for Writing a Strong Job Description  Get our FREE resource for Making the Most of Your Internship Email us at hello@ofthewest.co Join the Of The West Email List  List your jobs on Of The West Connect with Lexi Follow on Instagram @cowgirlsandcocktails_  Cowgirls & Cocktails Facebook Group Connect with Jessie: Follow on Instagram @ofthewest.co and @mrsjjarv Follow on Facebook @jobsofthewest Check out the Of The West website Be sure to subscribe/follow the show so you never miss an episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The practice of growing plants in water rather than soil isn't new, though early examples are difficult to substantiate. In the 1930s, hydroponic plant culture made headlines, but the field also had conflict among researchers. Research: Bacon, Francis. “Sylva sylvarum; or, A natural history, in ten centuries. Whereunto is newly added the History natural and experimental of life and death, or of the prolongation of life.” London. 1670. https://archive.org/details/sylvasylvarumorn00baco/page/116/mode/2up Britannica, The Editors of Encyclopaedia. "Hanging Gardens of Babylon". Encyclopedia Britannica, 13 Jan. 2025, https://www.britannica.com/place/Hanging-Gardens-of-Babylon Britannica, The Editors of Encyclopaedia. "chinampa". Encyclopedia Britannica, 26 May. 2017, https://www.britannica.com/topic/chinampa Britannica, The Editors of Encyclopaedia. "Julius von Sachs". Encyclopedia Britannica, 28 Sep. 2024, https://www.britannica.com/biography/Julius-von-Sachs. Ebel, Roland. "Chinampas: An Urban Farming Model of the Aztecs and a Potential Solution for Modern Megalopolis". HortTechnology hortte 30.1 (2020): 13-19. < https://doi.org/10.21273/HORTTECH04310-19 Gericke, W. F. “The Complete Guide To Soilless Gardening.” Prentice Hall. 1940. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.271694/page/n1/mode/2up Gericke, W. F. “The Meaning of Hydroponics.” Science101,142-143. 1945. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.101.2615.142 "General Mills' Big Gamble on Indoor Farming." Dun's Review. 1979. https://www.nal.usda.gov/sites/default/files/card-image/DunsReviewGeneralMillsImage.jpg “Growing Crops Without Soil.” United States Department of Agriculture. Agricultural research service. June 1965. https://www.nal.usda.gov/sites/default/files/card-image/RaisingCropsWithoutSoil1965_0.jpg Hall, Loura. “NASA Research Launches a New Generation of Indoor Farming.” NASA. Nov. 23, 2021. https://www.nasa.gov/technology/tech-transfer-spinoffs/nasa-research-launches-a-new-generation-of-indoor-farming/ Hoagland, D.R. and D.I. Arnon. “The Water-culture Method for Growing Plants Without Soil.” Berkeley. 1950. https://archive.org/details/watercultureme3450hoag/page/n5/mode/2up “A Hydroponic Farm on Wake Island.” Science87,12-3. (1938). DOI:1126/science.87.2263.12.u Janick, Jules et al. “The cucurbits of mediterranean antiquity: identification of taxa from ancient images and descriptions.” Annals of botany vol. 100,7 (2007): 1441-57. doi:10.1093/aob/mcm242 Silvio, Caputo. “History, Techniques and Technologies of Soil-Less Cultivation.” Springer, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-99962-9_4 Singer, Jesse. “A Hydroponics Timeline. Garden Culture Magazine. Feb. 8, 2021. https://gardenculturemagazine.com/a-brief-overview-of-the-history-of-hydroponics/#:~:text=1627:%20Sylva%20Sylvarum,Chemist%20Jean%20Baptist%20van%20Helmont Stanhill, G. "JOHN WOODWARD—A NEGLECTED 17TH CENTURY PIONEER OF EXPERIMENTAL BOTANY". Israel Journal of Plant Sciences 35.3-4 (1986): 225-231. https://doi.org/10.1080/0021213X.1986.10677056 Stuart, Neil W. “About Hydroponics.” Yearbook of Agriculture, U.S. Department of Agriculture. 1947. Accessed online: https://archive.org/details/yoa1947/page/289/mode/2up Taylor, Judith. “National Nutrition Month: Hydroponics feed ailing WWII Army Air Forces personnel.” Air Force Medical Service. March 26, 2014. https://www.airforcemedicine.af.mil/News/Article/582803/national-nutrition-month-hydroponics-feed-ailing-wwii-army-air-forces-personnel/ “Plants Without Soil.” Brooklyn Eagle. Feb. 28, 1937.https://www.newspapers.com/image/52623587/?match=1&terms=hydroponics “Hydroponics.” Courier-Journal. March 2, 1937. https://www.newspapers.com/image/107727971/?match=1&terms=hydroponics See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Art Bell - Hoagland - Face on Mars and Cydonia Region. Whitley Strieber - UFO Activity in Chile

This week, Drewby and Yergy head back to Pennsylvania to discuss the case of Malinda Hoagland, a beautiful little girl who, as the baby, was adored by her whole family. That all went out the window, however, when her father, Rendell Hoagland, found "love" once more... Cindy Warren was an abusive woman who had Rendell wrapped around his finger... So much so that he participated in the abuse and murder or his youngest daughter.  Support Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/themiserymachine PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/themiserymachine Join Our Facebook Group: https://t.co/DeSZIIMgXs?amp=1 Instagram: miserymachinepodcast Twitter: misery_podcast Discord: https://discord.gg/kCCzjZM #themiserymachine #podcast #truecrime Source Material: https://www.kxan.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/730405875/malinda-hoagland-suffered-tremendous-torture-and-abuse-before-preventable-death-family-seeks-accountability-and-answers/ https://6abc.com/post/rendell-hoagland-cindy-warren-charged-degree-murder-girl/15094847/ https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/couple-charged-with-killing-girl-after-torturing-abusing-her-for-years-da-says/3923727/ https://www.mainlinemedianews.com/2024/09/12/death-penalty-sought-for-chester-county-couple-accused-in-death-of-12-year-old-girl/ https://people.com/police-say-pa-girl-12-died-abuse-committed-by-father-his-girlfriend-her-sisters-want-change-8673395 https://www.poconorecord.com/story/news/crime/2024/05/17/malinda-hoagland-sisters-statement-chester-county/73736757007/ https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/malinda-hoagland-investigation-warning-signs-missed-starvation-death/ https://www.facebook.com/ChesCoDA/posts/news-release-upgrade-in-charges-for-two-accused-of-first-degree-murder-of-a-12-y/890126526272050/ https://6abc.com/post/girl-12-dies-weighing-just-50-pounds-in-chester-county-rendell-hoagland-and-cindy-warren-charged/14779677/ https://apnews.com/article/12yearold-girl-malinda-hoagland-6829a1a50fad03c0aa9e7756408bfbaf https://www.gofundme.com/f/fuel-malindas-law-for-abused-children?lang=en_US&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=facebook https://gofund.me/6971596f https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/southeastern-pa/celebration-of-life-provides-safe-space-following-abuse-death-of-12-year-old-girl/article_ac6b41fa-3210-11ef-af49-1f66f1b53263.html https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/west-caln-township-pennsylvania-malinda-hoagland-abuse/ https://nypost.com/2024/05/13/us-news/malinda-hoagland-12-weighed-just-50-pounds-when-she-died-from-abuse/ https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/270117878/malinda-hoagland https://www.youtube.com/live/7pt8hCCZiUo https://www.facebook.com/joyce.hoagland.3?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDoxMDIyNDM1OTc4MjI3ODI2MV85ODk3OTY1NTkzNjk4NjQ%3D https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/malinda-hoagland-chester-county-pennsylvania-child-abuse-case-update/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYk9XDXZw8s https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/video/new-lawsuit-filed-by-relatives-demands-accountability-in-death-of-malinda-hoagland/ https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/video/cindy-warren-child-abuse-arrest-malinda-hoagland-chester-county/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAxH6FouGfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T14MYp1whUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYk9XDXZw8s https://www.poconorecord.com/story/news/2007/01/10/who-killed-jessica-bock/52659046007/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfK9VnjwV2M https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10224360899586193&set=pb.1116061961.-2207520000 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10224359774118057&set=pb.1116061961.-2207520000&type=3 https://www.dailylocal.com/2024/07/02/sappey-bill-to-create-permanent-office-of-child-advocate-passes-pa-house/ https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=7578197615629629&set=pcb.7578226958960028 https://www.facebook.com/rhonda.thomas.79025 https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=7564558563641961&set=pcb.7564566103641207 https://www.facebook.com/reel/456269933526292 https://www.facebook.com/jamie.hoagland.944 https://www.facebook.com/joyce.hoagland.3?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDo2ODM3NTUxMDAyOTQ2MDYyXzY0NTg4MDQ5MDc5MzU4MQ%3D%3D https://www.facebook.com/abbey.hoagland https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/justiceformalinda https://www.facebook.com/rendell.hoagland https://www.facebook.com/babygirl12339

Ashley from Western Fashion Behind the Scenes interviews Lexi Hoagland, founder of Cowgirls and Cocktails and a marketing specialist at Lane Boots. The discussion delves into Lexi's unique background and her passion for the Western industry, which led her from a career in construction to founding a women's networking group and working in the Western fashion sector. Lexi shares insights into the mission of Cowgirls and Cocktails, its impact on women's networking, and organizing unique events like the upcoming Vegas tea party. She also talks about her journey with Lane Boots, highlighting the brand's innovative designs and influencer marketing strategies. The conversation closes with future events planned for Cowgirls and Cocktails, emphasizing the importance of curiosity, networking, and passion in career growth. #1 Takeaway ? Be curious. Come from a learners mindset. #2. No one is going to scream your name, louder than yourself. When you get in a room with women who care, ask for what you want! Find Lexi on Instagam at @lexihoagland Find Cowgirls & Cocktails on Instagram @cowgirlsandcocktails_ Will you be in Vegas for NFR? Attend the NFR Vegas Tea Party! It's Free! Click Here! For more information on Lane Boots, visit laneboots.com.

Art Bell - Dr. Edward Tenner - Technology and Unintended Consequences. R.C. Hoagland - Nuclear Technology

Serra Hoagland was the first Native American to graduate from Northern Arizona University with a Ph.D. in forestry. Hoagland works for the USDA Forest Service building partnerships with tribes and conducting research in those communities.

“H” is for Hoagland, Jimmie Lee (b. 1940). Journalist. Jimmie Lee Hoagland was inducted into the South Carolina Hall of Fame in 2017.

In Episode Four, Dave Reis speaks with his friend and jazz-inspired poet Everett Hoagland, "...an inventive and highly politicized poet... driven as much by the rhythms of jazz, as it is by the cultural, psychological, and historical weight of racial division." (1) Hoagland is an emeritus professor of English at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth. Everett Hoagland was also the first poet laureate of New Bedford, Massachusetts (1994–1998) and is our guest on the fourth of our ten podcast episodes in The South Coast Artists Index Jazz Series hosted by Dave Reis. This first-ever series is underwritten and brought to you by Fiber Optic Center and Whaling City Sound. Jazz podcast series host Dave Reis spent nearly 26 years as a Jazz radio show host among his many other accomplishments. He was one of the original longtime DJs who worked at the former WUSM which became radio station WUMD, 89.3 FM, on the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth campus. Dave Reis, AKA David Domingo Reis, was our guest on In-Focus Podcast 154. and In-Focus Podcast 181 and returns once again as the host of our first-ever ten-part jazz podcast series underwritten by the Fiber Optic Center. There is no better host for this series than Dave Reis, a walking, talking jazz encyclopedia and local legend himself. Dave grew up surrounded by and hanging around with many of the jazz greats he will be presenting his new Jazz Podcast Series. Offering listeners up close and personal conversations with the artists, supporters, and cultural impresarios of our creative community. Listen to the artists talk about their work, backgrounds, passions, dreams, and accomplishments.  Also featured are those work in or manage the creative community's economy, promotion, and cultural agenda. We would love it if you considered making a donation.

Art Bell - Gregg Braden - The Isaiah Effect. R.C. Hoagland - More Crop Glyphs

Art Bell - Michael Glickman - Crop Glyphs Images. Seth Shostak, R.C. Hoagland

Art Bell - Rev. Sean Manchester - Vampire Hunter. R.C. Hoagland - Crop Glyphs

Art Bell - Linda Howe - Horse Deaths, Tent Caterpillars. R.C. Hoagland - Mars update

A Pennsylvania district attorney shared graphic new details about the abuse suffered by 12-year-old Malinda Hoagland, allegedly at the hands of her father, Rendell Hoagland, and stepmother, Cindy Warren. Prosecutors say the couple filmed videos of the alleged abuse and texted those videos to each other. Law&Crime's Jesse Weber breaks down the upgraded murder charges and whether anyone else should be held accountable for Malinda's death with Hoagland family attorney Thomas Bosworth.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get 50% off of confidential background reports at https://www.truthfinder.com/lcsidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Art Bell - Jeffrey Long - NDEs. R.C. Hoagland, Peter Gersten - NASA and Cydonia

The TVA has been tackling some of the South's biggest problems since 1933. What started as a solution to poverty, flooding, and depleted farmlands now works on nuclear power and clean energy. In this episode, Joe Hoagland joins us in the studio to discuss how the TVA got started, what it's doing now, and where it's going in the future. We delve into TVA's current energy portfolio, future small modular reactors, and economic development. Joe also discusses the push for nuclear leadership in Tennessee, grid capacity challenges, and the importance of engaging future generations in STEM to support the growing energy sector.     About Joe Hoagland Joe Hoagland is the Tennessee Valley Authority's Vice President of Innovation and Research. He earned his  BS in Chemistry from Southern Utah University and an MS and PhD in Physical Chemistry from Washington State University. Joe has been with TVA since 1993, spearheading numerous key initiatives. He is also the Chair of Tennessee's Energy Policy Council, an adjunct professor at the Howard Baker School at the University of Tennessee, and serves on the board of directors for the American Museum of Science and Energy Foundation.     Show Highlights (0:35) Introducing Joe Hoagland (1:37) When TVA was created, what area it covers, and its primary missions (6:31) TVA's current energy portfolio percentages and how it's changing (9:51) The amount of electricity TVA distributes every year and how it gets to consumers (13:15) Understanding the TVA flood control system (17:19) The TVA's focus on economic development (20:07) Joe Hoagland's role as Chair of the Tennessee State Energy Policy Council (25:03) How energy storage systems are changing (29:16) Energy disruptors the TVA currently faces (37:39) Engaging this and future generations in STEM to be part of the growing energy sector

Art Bell - Alan Mesher - Psychic Healing. R.C. Hoagland - Antarctica, Mars

Art Bell - Thunder Strikes - Shadow People. R.C. Hoagland - Monuments of Mars

Art Bell - Peter Davenport - Dallas Sightings. RC Hoagland with T vonFlandern - NASA and Cydonia

Art Bell - Ed Dames - Remote Viewing. R.C. Hoagland - Antarctica News

With buying cycles seeming longer and many businesses seeing lower conversions your ability to successfully close a deal is incredibly important. In this episode, Nikki not only speaks with high ticket sales expert Katy Hoagland about how to run sales calls effectively and with integrity, but they also do some role-playing.  Want more sales support? Start by signing up for Katy's latest training and masterclass. Additional Resources: 1. Grab Your Copy of the Market Your Genius Book: Market Your Genius Book 2. Connect with Nikki On Instagram 

In this insightful episode, I get the opportunity to engage in a deep conversation with Katy Hoagland, a seasoned sales expert, on the crucial aspects of client success and fostering superior client experiences. Drawing from our shared history in coaching, we highlight the significance of integrity in selecting the right individuals for your programs to ensure successful outcomes.Transitioning into strategies for managing sales teams, Katy highlights the crucial need to master the sales process before delegation, emphasizing the significance of aligning hiring, firing, and promotions with core company values. By fostering a client-centric culture rooted in the organization's mission and vision, businesses can prioritize long-term success and mutually beneficial relationships.HIGHLIGHTS:3:26 Taking Risks and Starting a Sales Journey5:47 Coaching Coaches on Sales with Integrity6:11 Overcoming Sales Challenges12:12 Working with Sales Teams and Agencies15:58 Building a Client-Centric Culture17:36 Sales Conversations and Challenging Beliefs20:52 Ensuring the Right Clients for Program Success24:28 Nurturing Relationships and Creating Genuine Connections28:30 Qualifying Ideal Clients for Program Fit40:01 Pre-Onboarding in Sales Conversations44:15 Accessing Practical High Ticket Sales Challenge TipsCONNECT WITH KATY:Elite Closer High Ticket Sales ChallengeFacebookLinkedinInstagramYouTubeFollow Megan Huber's Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | Book a Call | Consulting

Art Bell - John Nolan - Corporate Espionage. RC Hoagland - Miami Circle, Cydonia

Richard C. Hoagland is the principal investigator and founder of The Enterprise Mission, as well as the vision and the voice of The Other Side of Midnight. In the first half, he discussed images from Odysseus, a recent unmanned American lunar mission. According to Hoagland, the new lunar mission's close-ups dramatically confirm his decades-old "ancient, artificial structures on the Moon model" that he first proposed at the National Press Club in March 1996. The Washington Post even published a "hit piece" 28 years ago on the press event. He suggested that the reason many private and non-US missions to the Moon have run into problems is because they are literally crashing into the glass dome, which he claims exists all over the Moon but is denser in certain regions.The dome, Hoagland continued, could be billions of years old and has been battered by a stream of interplanetary micrometeorites that, over eons, have left holes in it. In image #2 that he sent us, he explained that you can see the sun shining through the "incredible geometry of the glass dome" as the light bounces off of it, creating a refraction. He has concluded that a renegade group in and outside of NASA wants to reveal the truth about these structures on the Moon, and that the recent Odysseus mission functioned as a kind of Trojan horse for that goal. There are ruins throughout the solar system, he added, and it will be fascinating to eventually learn who placed them there and if they are related to our species.------------Venki Ramakrishnan shared the 2009 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for uncovering the structure of the ribosome and runs Ramakrishnan Lab. In the latter half, he discussed the science of mortality and aging, the giant strides being made in the field, and the possibility that we may someday be able to extend our lifespan. The oldest person that ever lived (that we have reliable records for) was a French woman named Jeanne Calment, who died at the age of 122 in 1997. Aging is the accumulation of chemical damage to our molecules and cells over time, he explained, and it starts gradually with small defects; these lead to medium-sized ones that manifest as the morbidities of old age, leading eventually to the system-wide failure that is death. Someone like Calment may have an extraordinary ability to fend off or repair the body's defects that come with aging. For instance, as we age, the risk of cancer goes up, he noted.Scientists are now asking if it's possible to extend our longevity past 120. Ramakrishnan believes we may have to alter our natural biology to achieve this, which could be a challenging proposition. He reported that larger species tend to live longer on average-- for instance, a blue whale or Greenland shark will live 400 years, and other whales live 200 to 300 years. He cited that stress can take a toll on a person, while the "trinity of health" is the combination of a good, moderate diet, exercise, and adequate sleep. Sleep deprivation, he pointed out, increases the risk of many diseases of aging, including cardiovascular problems, obesity, cancer, and Alzheimer's. This may be because during sleep the body performs various repair mechanisms. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/georgenoory/message

Art Bell - Death Threats, EQ Pegasi Hoax, Weather Control & Hoagland vs Stephens

Art Bell - Ghost to Ghost 1998 hour1&2 RC Hoagland, Seth Shostak - EQ Pegasi

This week we cover File 6: Angels of Death. We do a quick life update and celebrating life. Then Josh tells the story of the evil nurse Charles Cullen; Josh named his story Angel of Death: Charles Cullen (innovative right?!). Then, Amy covers the terrible "doctor" Harold Shipman; she named her story Ship Him Out! Here is the list of victims starting with the murderer Charles Cullen: June 11, 1988: John W. Yengo, Sr., 72 March 9, 1991: Lucy Vigilone Mugavero, 90July 23, 1991: Mary Natoli, 85September 1, 1991: Helen Dean, 91January 21, 1996: LeRoy Sinn, 71May 31, 1996: Earl Young, 76June 9, 1996: Catherine A. Dext, 49June 24, 1996: Frank Mazzacco, 66July 10, 1996: Jesse Eichlin, 81 December 31, 1998: Ottomar A. Schramm, 78 August 31, 1999: Matthew Mattern, 22February 2000: Stella Danielczyk, 73 (attempted murder)February 8, 2001: John Gallagher, 90 (attempted murder)June 22, 2001: Irene Krampf, 79November 8, 2001: William Park, 72December 28, 2001: Paul Galgon, 72 (attempted murder)January 9, 2002: Samuel Spangler, 80May 5, 2002: Daniel George, 82June 2, 2002: Edward O'Toole, 76February 12, 2003: Eleanor Stoecker, 60February 23, 2003: Joyce E. Mangini, 74February 23, 2003: Giacomino J. Toto, 89March 11, 2003: John J. Shanagher, 83 April 6, 2003: Dorthea K. Hoagland, 80 May 5, 2003: Melvin T. Simcoe, 66 May 15, 2003: Michael T. Strenko, 21 June 18, 2003: Philip Gregor, 48 (attempted murder)June 28, 2003: Reverend Florian J. Gall, 68 June 29, 2003: Jin Kyung Han, 40 (attempted murder)July 13, 2003: Pasquale M. Napolitano, 80 August 11, 2003: Christopher B. Hardgrove, 38 August 27, 2003: Frances Agoada, 83 (attempted murder)September 20, 2003: Krishnakant Upadhyay, 70September 23, 2003: James R. Strickland, 83October 21, 2003: Edward P. Zizik, 73and here are the (known, and convicted on) victims of Harold Shipman:Marie WestIrene TurnerLizzie AdamsJean LilleyIvy LomasMuriel GrimshawMarie QuinnKathleen WagstaffBianka Pomfret Norah NuttallPamela HillierMaureen WardWinifred MellorJoan MeliaKathleen GrundyWe hope the families of the victim are heard and want to thank you all for your support. We will see you all on April 5th, when we cover Cults.

Robert Hoagland was an ordinary family man from Newtown, Connecticut. He disappeared without a trace on July 28th, 2013. Nine years later, he was located after he died unexpectedly at a home in upstate New York. He had been living under an alias and had started a new life. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the mysterious case of Robert Hoagland. No one knows why Robert left his home and lived less than 100 miles away from the family who spent years searching for him. He left behind a wife and three adult children. Why did Robert do what he did, and how did he live under the radar so close to home for all those years? You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production

I'm Ellen Bernstein-Ellis, Program Specialist and Director Emeritus for the Aphasia Treatment Program at Cal State East Bay and a member of the Aphasia Access Podcast Working Group. AA's strives to provide members with information, inspiration, and ideas that support their aphasia care through a variety of educational materials and resources. I'm today's host for an episode that will feature Dr. Kelly Knollman-Porter, who is a 2023 recipient of a Tavistock Trust for Aphasia Distinguished Scholar Award, USA and Canada. She will discuss how her interest in auditory comprehension and severe aphasia led to her work on reading comprehension.   Guest bio Dr. Kelly Knollman-Porter is an associate professor in the Department of Speech Pathology and Audiology at Miami University. She directs the Neurogenic Language and Cognition lab, where her clinical research focuses on the development of supports and strategies for adults with aphasia to facilitate reading and auditory comprehension. Her research also explores the subtle reading processing differences exhibited by adults with aphasia through eye tracking technology. Dr. Knollman-Porter directs the Miami University Concussion Management Program, where her secondary research focuses on the development of assessment measures and treatments to manage the cognitive and communication challenges often associated with mild traumatic brain injury. She has over 30 years of experience working directly with adults with acquired brain injury. Listener take-aways In today's episode you will: Learn about how wanting to help clients with severe auditory comprehension challenges motivated our guest to pursue her doctoral degree after 15 years in clinical practice   Consider some of the challenges SLPs face in assessing reading in clinical practice using current standardized measures and learn about some advantages of incorporating a reading questionnaire and close observation for getting a better understanding of your client's individual reading style, preferences, and needs.   Explore the contribution of text to speech (TTS) to the dual modality model for supporting reading success at the book level and some of the critical factors to consider when implementing this strategy with clients.   Investigate how eye-tracking technology can help us gain insight to an individual's reading strengths and patterns. Show notes edited for conciseness and clarity Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  00:10 Kelly, let me just pause and say welcome! Thank you for being here. Kelly Knollman-Porter  01:02 Thank you for having me on the podcast. I'm so happy to be here. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  01:05 I am so excited you're here today. And as we talked, we always have a pre-meeting where we get to plan what we want to talk about in these podcasts, and as you know, I'm so excited to talk about book clubs and reading strategies. Thank you so much for being our guest today. Kelly Knollman-Porter  02:23 Thanks again, Ellen. And I have to thank you for your foundational work in the area of reading.  You can look back at a lot of the articles that myself or my research team have published and we reference you quite a bit. So thanks for your work also. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  02:39 Thank you for that kind, kind mention. I was very fortunate to partner with Dr. Roberta Elman to create the Book Connection at the Aphasia Center of California and be part of that body of work. We like to start with an icebreaker to give our listeners a chance to get to know you. I will open by asking you to share how the Tavistock Trust for Aphasia Distinguished Scholar Award has or you think will impact your work? Kelly Knollman-Porter  03:06 First of all, I'd like to just take a moment to thank the Duchess of Bedford and Nicole Campbell from the Tavistock Trust for giving me this honor. I was just so surprised and excited to hear when I was given this award. I had the lovely opportunity a couple of years ago at a Clinical Aphasiology Conference to meet both of these amazing women. I've been so impressed by the work of the Tavistock Trust. It's not just work in the UK, they have spread this out across the globe. They really have done so much to not only help people with aphasia, but also help educate the public about aphasia, help us as clinicians get connected, and as researchers get connected in order to stay abreast of more recent research that's coming out in terms of helping people with aphasia. I am just so thankful and appreciative of receiving this honor from this great organization. But how will it help me? I can honestly say that right now we're in the process of starting a new study  and through the support at the Tavistock Trust, we are going to be able to provide funding to help support these research studies and hopefully get some of these funds back into the hands of our participants. I'm excited to keep that research moving through their support. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  04:42 That's great. That was a really nice and gracious recognition. Yes, we're so appreciative of the work the Tavistock Trust has done. How about if we open by sharing a little bit about your professional journey? I think you considered yourself a non-traditional doctoral student.   You said you returned to get your doctorate after about 15 years of practice. Tell us a little bit more about what you were doing when you decided to return to your doctorate. And what were your passions that inspired you to return to school? Not an easy decision, I would guess. Kelly Knollman-Porter  05:19 No, it wasn't. I can honestly say I wasn't looking for it. I was very happy in clinical practice. I worked in a hospital for 15 years before coming to academia. I loved working in the medical field. I loved collaborating with other rehabilitation professionals, dieticians and physicians. I was very happy working in these environments. But Miami University actually reached out to me. They were wanting to further develop their adult program and they said, “Hey, will you come to academia and share some of your clinical knowledge and also lead the Miami University Aphasia Support Group?” They knew I had always had a long interest in working collaboratively with people with aphasia and clinically. So they asked me to come. I have to admit, I turned them down a couple times. And then finally, I made the big plunge and said, “Why not try it?” I wasn't really seeking it out. Originally, however, I was reaching a point where I was becoming frustrated with some of the reimbursement issues we were facing clinically. When working with people with aphasia, I sometimes felt like insurance was dictating how much treatment I could provide and how long I could provide it, even though I felt like many people could continue to make progress. I just felt like my hands were tied, and I was restricted. That was frustrating to me. I have to admit, when I came to academia, I was thinking, what can I do in order to explore this further? How can I potentially contribute to the research base in order to provide evidence to show that people with aphasia can continue to make progress, not just months after diagnosis, but 5, 10, 15 years? Because as a clinician, we've all seen it, absolutely. We know that people with aphasia want to continue to actively participate in life activities. And they can, if given the opportunity and the support. So, when I made that transition to academia, I quickly made the decision to go back and get my PhD. Primarily focusing on clinical research, specifically with people with chronic aphasia, Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  07:52 I am sure that there are listeners out there who may be sitting on that fence as well thinking, Should I do it? Should I pursue this doctorate? I just want to acknowledge and honor the challenges of being a doctoral student, especially while also being the parent of young children, but I just think it should be recognized. I was wondering, what was the best advice you got from your mentors? Because I'm sure you reached points in that process where you wondered, was this the right thing? And I want to support listeners who are out there thinking, “Can I do this? Should I do this?”  Kelly Knollman-Porter  08:30 It definitely required a team. When I decided to go back get my PhD, I had a 10 year old and a five year old. That just requires a lot of work, going to things after school for them and keeping your family a priority, but yet still working full time getting your PhD while commuting. And coming back, a special shout out to my spouse, who helped me keep all the balls up in the air. My family came along. I had amazing support from my in-laws and my parents, in terms of helping pick up the kids when needed. But I'm not going to lie, it was a challenge. And there were times when I wanted to throw in the towel. I wanted to say, “You know what, this is just too much for me to do right now.” But I did have people that came alongside me, that kept encouraging me, saying “It's okay, stay the course, what you're doing is good, and don't lose faith.” I have to give credit to Aimee Dietz. Dietz was my dissertation chair and she was very encouraging, supportive, and understanding that I was a mother and I had a life outside of PhD and work. She respected that. It was funny. She ended up getting pregnant at the same time and had her child. So I think we kind of supported each other through that. But one thing she said to me that I always remembered because she knew I loved clinical practice. I was like “Amy, maybe I should just go back to clinical practice?” And she said, “Kelly, you realize that your research is going to touch more people then your clinical practice.” Not downplaying clinical practice at all. But she said, “Your research has the potential of spreading information not only across our small geographic Midwest area, but also across the country and across the world.”  Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  10:35 What a wonderful piece of advice. No surprise, what a lovely mentor to have. Kelly Knollman-Porter  10:39 Absolutely. I think I told you this before, there was one very difficult day that I was having. My family was sitting around the dinner table and the house was a mess. I had grading to do and I said to my husband, “I'm going to quit, I'm not going to get my PhD.” And my 10 year old daughter was sitting there and her name's Anna. And she said, “Mom, what would you say to me if I told you I was going to quit something?” Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  11:11 What a wise 10 year old. Kelly Knollman-Porter  11:13 And at that moment, I realized that people were watching and other women might be watching and saying, “Hey, stay the course, persevere.” I am proud enough to say that that same daughter just recently graduated from vet school with her DVM and I hope that my perseverance helped her persevere also. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  11:36 I love that story. Thank you for sharing it with our listeners today. Your doctoral work originally focused on the treatment of auditory comprehension in severe aphasia. I know that was one of your clinical loves. I want to recommend to our listeners since we can't cover everything today, your 2018 article,  we'll put it in the references of the podcast show notes, about intensive aphasia auditory comprehension treatment. Why don't you share how you became involved in reading comprehension? Because you started out in this auditory comprehension world, right? Kelly Knollman-Porter  12:13 Absolutely. Well, again, I really feel like comprehension is instrumental. There's been some work done that says people with auditory comprehension deficits, the more severe the auditory comprehension deficits, the greater risk of decreased success in rehabilitation outcomes. So I always had a passion for exploring auditory comprehension and different potential treatments to facilitate comprehension with people with chronic aphasia. But Aimee Dietz gave me that opportunity to do that. But it was interesting. During my dissertation process, I actually found out that my son had a pretty significant dyslexia. We kind of suspected it with him growing up, but then when you hit kindergarten, you really start to see the reading challenges kind of surface. And I remember talking with Amiee about reading. During that time, we were able to get my son connected to a great reading program that explored different compensatory supports to help facilitate any reading process, one of which was text to speech technology. And at that time, Amiee was collaborating with Karen Hux from the University of Nebraska on a potential reading study. And she says, “You're so interested in reading right now and you're interested in aphasia? How about combining those two loves, and getting involved with a reading study?” And the rest is history, that kind of landslide into a lot of research collaborations over the past 12 years that I've been involved with. But my son Eric did inspire that because seeing his success with text to speech with dyslexia, it made me think, why not text to speech with people with aphasia? What about that dual modality presentation?  Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  14:15 That's great. I also think you're showing us yet again, how often our personal journeys inform our research and clinical paths. I think that's a beautiful example. Reading has been repeatedly shown to impact quality of life for individuals with aphasia. They tell us that so often, but it's often challenging for clinicians to allocate the limited clinical time to assessment and treatment. Reading treatment takes a while to do so. I feel like I'm asking you to address the million dollar question here. But what are your recommendations on how to manage this challenge? And what are some of the challenges in assessing reading? I've alluded to the time, but why don't you elaborate? You've done a deep dive here. Kelly Knollman-Porter  15:06 Absolutely. And it is challenging because first and foremost, I find that a lot of our standardized assessments will try to tap into assessing the reading challenges, but it really only scratches the surface. I haven't found a really great standardized assessment that I can use and rely on that really helps direct my treatment course, You have to use a variety and you have to do some that you just make up on your own based on how exactly that person is responding. But generally, if I'm going to assess, I first have to start by having a really in-depth conversation with the person with aphasia or their care partner. First of all, you have to find out if reading is of interest to them, of course,and the types of reading materials that they like to engage with. I think about people in our Miami University aphasia support group. I have one individual who would read a novel a week prior to her stroke. I had another person in our group who said to me, “Kelly, you know what? I never read books.” It was not something of interest to him. You have to treat those two people very differently. You have to find out what their interests are. That's always where I start--with just an interview and talking with them about aphasia. And then I talked to them about their interests in terms of “Are you comfortable with technology? Are you not comfortable with technology?” I actually give them reading tasks. When I assess reading, I of course, start at the word level, and then creep up to the sentence level and add more complexity and length. But when I give them a paragraph to read, I don't just look at, did they get the answers correct or incorrect? I'm not only looking at accuracy per response, but how long does it take them to process that multi sentence information? So for example, if I gave them a four sentence paragraph to read, I watch them very closely to see how they're attacking that reading task. And that doesn't take that long out of your assessment time. I watch where their eyes are moving. I watch to see if their eyes are regressing back within a sentence while they're reading. And if I notice that they're really struggling, I also say to them, “Tell me, what are you having difficulty reading right now? Can you point to the words that you're struggling with? Can you point to the words potentially that you're skipping? Tell me about this process, and try to tell me how it's different from the way you read before.” And sometimes we underestimate what people with aphasia can tell us about their reading experiences. I have found that a lot of the people that I have worked with can be very specific about what they're having difficulty with. Now, there's always that small population that might not have the awareness. But it's still the majority of them that can. I was just working with a gentleman last week, and I was like, “Show me what you're having difficulty with.” And he pointed to the words that he struggled with, and that helped me understand. Are you having more difficulty with content words? Are you having more difficulty with verbs? Are you having more difficulty with articles? What is it about this process that's  making it hard? Because many times people with aphasia can read that paragraph very slowly and very carefully and end up with a high percentage accuracy in terms of performance, but if it's taking them five minutes to read a four sentence paragraph, it is too fatiguing, it's too much. And they're going to end up avoiding getting back to reading things that they want to read for pleasure. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  19:18 Right, because the burden is too high. Kelly Knollman-Porter  19:21 Because the burden is too high. I really feel like if we can look at these things clinically, we just need to take a little bit of time to talk to the people and actively watch how they're attacking that reading task. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  19:37 If I circle back briefly to the impact reading has on quality of life, your 2015 article does a beautiful job of describing the contribution of access to reading to the quality of life. This was a qualitative study that interviewed six individuals with aphasia to hone in on their individual reading preferences and supports. But before you describe these results, I'd like you to share with the listeners your reading assessment survey. You just talked about listening carefully and asking questions. I think that's harder than you're making it sound. But you've given us this tool that is an amazing springboard. Many of us probably have just informal tools, lists of questions that we've developed on our own over time. But in that article, you actually attach this beautiful, clinical tool. How did you go about developing this initial reading survey that you do? Thank you for including that in the article. That was wonderful. Kelly Knollman-Porter  20:46 Oh, absolutely. A special shout out again to my research team, Karen Hux, Sarah Wallace, and Jessica Brown. We spent many hours of our meeting time creating this questionnaire. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  21:02 But that's great, these great clinical minds all coming together, embracing this questionnaire, planning to put it together, that's beautiful.   Kelly Knollman-Porter  21:10 Absolutely. I have to encourage everybody to try to get to be a part of a research team. We're stronger together than we are in isolation. I have the utmost respect for each of these women. They have taught me so much. We each brought to the table unique strengths. All four of us are unique in our own special way. And like I said, I've learned so much from them. But we bring that when we're creating our research studies. We always start with a rough draft. And then we question each other. We say, well, I've seen this clinically, or I think about this from a research perspective. I definitely brought to the table my clinical experience in working with people with aphasia, but then Sarah did also, so too Jessica, and so too Karen. Just working through what we saw were challenges that people with aphasia might experience and what we've found clinically to develop that questionnaire. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  22:11 So, you created this questionnaire with a variety of sections that helps someone systematically go through understanding that person's reading preferences and strengths and try to get a sense of what their profile is, right? That's your starting point. And then you take it from there. Kelly Knollman-Porter  22:28 Exactly. What do you like to read? Do you like to read text messages? Do you like to read novels? Where do you like to read? How do you like to read? Do you like to hold a book versus do you like using technology? What are all the different ways that you personally like to read? I can honestly say one thing that we learned from the qualitative study, I know I'm jumping to that, was everybody has their own unique reading experiences. There's not going to be a one size fits all approach to the assessment or the treatment of anyone with a reading challenge. You will not find a cookbook approach to this. You have to do it on an individual basis. And if you do, I think the outcomes are going to be stronger. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  23:20 Let's circle back to that 2015 article, we'll jump back and forth. Could you describe some of the key takeaways from that study? Maybe you could explain why you think that dual modality model, which we started to allude to earlier with text to speech, is so important to supporting reading success? That's part of my takeaway from that 2015 article.     Kelly Knollman-Porter  23:45 I wish I could tell you that in 2014, when we were initially planning this qualitative research study that we were thinking about TTS. I was from a distance, but we weren't actively looking at text to speech (TTS) at that time. But one thing that my colleagues and I felt we had to do first, if we were going to explore reading research more, we had to go to the people with aphasia to learn what they wanted. So, before we took our own personal opinions about what we thought people with aphasia needed in terms of reading, we thought we should start with a qualitative study and find out what they wanted and what they needed. And you know what, that was such an important starting place for our research. Because again, we found each of the people that I interviewed had their own unique needs, but yet every single one of them passionately wanted to read. They wanted to get back to reading and they wanted to read books. They wanted to read books about romance and they wanted to read about horror stories. I'll never forget one of our participants. She told me that she liked to read Stephen King novels. She laughed and says, “Kelly, you couldn't handle that.” And it's true. I don't like those scary stories. But, they wanted to read. They want to learn more about aphasia, but they just want to read what everybody else is reading. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  25:23 You want to read what your peers are reading.  I will always remember this story where one of our book club members at the Aphasia Center of California was so excited at a book club meeting because he had taken the book that we were reading, I think it was Shadow Divers at the time, to the golf course. No one usually approached him and chatted with him. But he actually had a couple guys come up when they saw the book and engage with him in discussion. So it became this beautiful bridge of connection. I can't communicate as well, but they had this awesome commonality to share. It was just what they were interested in. So that example of just wanting to do what your peers are doing because there's such joy in being part of that reading community. One of my favorite parts of that 2015 article is also the clinical reading framework that's on page 19. It helps a clinician start to think about how to implement reading supports and strategies. I think that is a beautiful contribution. Could you describe that model for our listeners?  Kelly Knollman-Porter  26:30 Sure, of course, you start with the questionnaire, you start with asking them what they want to read and what they like to read. And then you do an informal assessment. And then, as we walk through that framework, you establish personally relevant goals, based on their unique reading needs and experiences. But then as you're considering treatment, you have to think about lots of different avenues that you can potentially go down. And that's going to be based again on their needs. Specifically, are they interested in technology? If they're not interested in technology, then that's going to take you on one route, but if they are interested in technology should you consider text to speech? If they're not interested in technology, will picture support facilitate their understanding of the written text? So basically, looking at personalizing the treatment approach. And going through a process of trial and error, looking at the length of the reading that should be used, or the complexity of the reading materials, and again, gearing treatment towards their unique personal needs. That's kind of what it's all about. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  27:50 You really provide a very clear framework, and I think that always helps us with our clinical thinking-- to know what questions to ask and how to break it down. A wonderful follow up to that 2015 article, is the 2022 article that compared comprehension, processing time and modality preferences for individuals with and without aphasia when reading books using text to speech. Could you start by explaining or describing what motivated your work to be at the book level?  So often, we start with words and then sentences, but here, you took this big, big leap and started at the book level. Kelly Knollman-Porter  28:31 I'm going to swing back to my 2015 article real quick, if that's okay. Because I have to admit, one of the participants in that study gave us direction to go the TTS route first. So, of those people that we interviewed in that initial qualitative study, only one of them was reading more after his stroke than before his stroke. And this gentleman, he was in his mid 40s at the time, and very into technology. I remember when we were doing the interview with him, he was adamant. He was like, “Kelly, text to speech works!” So of the six people that we interviewed, he was the one that inspired us to start looking at text to speech more-- that eventually led to all these other studies. Because he said, “I've read a novel.” He laughingly told me that he read Fifty Shades of Grey, and he also was able to get online and, through text to speech, order things through Amazon or different mechanisms like that. We started exploring text to speech technology and the degree to which it could help from a dual modality presentation. So that kind of got us on that track. My colleagues and I explored the use of text to speech at the sentence and paragraph level to see if it helped. We really had mixed results, I have to admit. We were finding that sometimes it helped some people, but it didn't help all people. And we were almost getting a little frustrated with what we were finding, and we were feeling that we were hearing from clients. I have to admit, I've run into clinicians all over the country and they're like, “Yeah, text to speech works.” But we weren't seeing those strong outcomes with our research. It was right around the pandemic time. I said to my colleagues, “We're gonna have to take a big leap here with our research, instead of just looking at the sentence and paragraph level, why don't we just jump to books?” We know that people with aphasia want to read books. We have a feeling that the text to speech might help them at the book level. We know that this research is going to get a little muddy, there's going to be a lot of variables that we can't control for, but let's try to do a study based on what people with aphasia want. So we took this big leap of faith and did this book study. And this one was where we decided to control many factors in terms of having them read a certain section and then using text to speech and then read another section and then use text to speech for another section. There was a lot involved in it. But that's ultimately why--because people with aphasia told us that they want to read books. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  31:45 I know we're going back and forth. But these topics are all integrated. Let's take a moment and ask you to talk a little bit more about text to speech and what you've learned about using it for individuals with aphasia. You started to again allude to some of the things, particularly the variability across people. There are pros. And there's cons. Before we dive in, I want to refer our listeners to this nugget, this beautiful little gem, that I found just last week. It was in the March 2023 ASHA Leader, and it's with your co authors Sarah Wallace and Karen Hux. The article lays out some of the considerations to take when introducing a client to text to speech technology, like how to do it in a systematic way, how to explore and allow for the individualization that is necessary, that practice is necessary. It's a great clinical perspective article. We'll put the link in our show notes. But what do you want to say about the lessons learned with text to speech? Kelly Knollman-Porter  32:47 Absolutely. It takes practice when you're considering using text to speech with a person with aphasia. First of all, you have to see if they're interested in using technology. If they have access to technology, that's your first question. And then, can they access the device physically? So lots of things have to be taken into consideration. If they show interest in using the technology, you need to sit down with that person with that technology that they choose. If that's an Android device, if that's Mac device, if it's a laptop, if it's an iPad, if it's a smartphone, you have to bring their device to the table and see to what degree they can access the necessary text to speech applications that are needed in order to use it successfully for reading tasks. If they cannot access it, then you need to take a step back and create an instruction manual to help with pictures and aphasia friendly formatting, in order to give them a step by step method to access that technology. So often, we start to use technology intuitively. We think everybody else should be able to use it that easily. But we have to make sure that the person can turn the device on. A lot of older people also have decreased circulation in their fingertips and sometimes when touching the app, they can't get it to trigger, so they have to warm up their fingers before accessing it. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  34:33 I'm so glad you mentioned that because I can actually personally relate to that one. Because these nuances are so important. , I don't know if they're nuances, these challenges that you may not realize until you actually sit down and work with the person. Kelly Knollman-Porter  34:48 Absolutely. So when I know someone is interested in this, I always start with pictures--a detailed instruction book that shows you step by step what you have to touch in order to access that TTS system. I put it in a binder with a plastic coat covering over the top, so that they can have that manual sitting right there by their device. And then we practice with it. We say, “Okay, now I'm going to show you how to access this text to speech technology. Now you show me if you can do it using your manual.” And we go back and forth. We're not even to the reading part yet. You have to first access the system. If they show that they can then access it, then we actually get into playing with the different TTS features. So anything, from the speed of the voice presentation on TTS is crucial. You have to find that ideal speed for that person that's not too fast, and not too slow. That's going to help their processing. So, playing around with the speed. Also playing around with a voice. Do they want a male voice? Do they want a female voice? Do they want one with an accent? You'd be surprised people are very particular about the voice that they want. And then, also exploring the use of highlighting. Do they want to have highlighting? At the single word level? Do they want each word highlighted as it's read? Or do you want the full sentence highlighted? Or do you want no highlighting, because some people don't like the highlighting. So there's a whole sequence of steps that you need to go through in order to determine if someone is going to be able to access the TTS system, and then, if they're going to be able to use it successfully. And that does take time. And it takes experimentation and setting up a system for a person, letting them try it on their own. And then having them come back and ask, “Okay, what did you like? And what did you not like? Can we change this at all?” So it can be adaptive, it might change over time. We don't want to just give one structured TTS system to all people. It won't work. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  37:17 I think that dovetails beautifully with my next question, which is, if we circle back to that 2022 article, I was struck by some of the variability across participants and that you were able to embrace that as a researcher and look at what that means.  The variability across people reinforced your approach of taking a strength-based model approach when assessing reading performance for your clients. Are there other outcomes you want to highlight from that study? Kelly Knollman-Porter  37:49 Absolutely. One thing we found overall, is that for the group as a whole, TTS technology helped them process the written materials faster, without compromising comprehension. I'm gonna say that again, so they could access and process the written information faster, without compromising comprehension. For some of them, that was huge, right? Because they were able to read that book with less time, and hence less fatigue-- Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  38:27 ---that reduces that burden we were talking about earlier, right, that sense of fatigue and burden.  However, so keep going. I'm sorry. Kelly Knollman-Porter  38:34 So we found it helps process the information faster. But as a group overall, we found that it did not improve their comprehension. And that's been kind of the thorn in our heel, more like, why is this text to speech not facilitating comprehension? Because if you look at the theory on dual modality, if you're presenting something auditorily and through writing, that should facilitate comprehension, right? But we weren't seeing that with all participants. Now, some of that could be the varying degrees of complexity of their unique type of reading problem that they had.  Then we did have a couple people that actually did show improvements in comprehension.  We had one participant that had a 20% increase in comprehension with TTS compared to the read only condition. We had another person with like a 10% increase. So this works for some people, in terms of facilitating comprehension, but not all. So we felt like we're getting close, but we're still not quite there. And that's why we're needing to continue to do more research.   Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  39:50 I just want to take a pause.  This research was all done during COVID. I want to thank you for how clearly you describe the training and materials needed for this study in that article. I have watched some of my colleagues trying to do research during COVID. They did some incredible things. Looking at that article made me wonder how did you do that?  I want to shout out your tenacity in accomplishing this during COVID. I think you mentioned that it gave you multiple “front porch opportunities” to solve tech challenges, because you had to go to the house of your participants, literally sit on the porch and try to fix the iPad, or the Kindle, or the whatever, and hand it back to them. So thank you for just hanging in there during a time when it was really hard to do research. I'm looking at the time, and I want to make sure that we get to your eye fixation behaviors and processing time in individuals with and without aphasia article. I've just covered a lot at the moment. Was there something you wanted to reflect on in terms of your “porch moments”  before we jumped to the eye fixation study? Kelly Knollman-Porter  41:11 I think as a speech language pathologist, it's kind of in our blood that we have to be very adaptive and flexible. Sometimes you have to jump in the car and drive and sit on the porch, especially. This is another challenge with using technology, if an update happens, and it totally changes the formatting of an application you're using all the time. Now, if a person with aphasia cannot always adapt to that, I would get a call, “Hey, Kelly. Something's popping up here. And I can't get rid of it.” So I would just hop in the car, and I'd say, put everything on your front porch. I will be there. I'm just going to sit on your front porch, and I will deal with the update. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  42:02 That could be cold in Ohio. I'm picturing you sitting there with gloves and in a coat trying to fix things. Kelly Knollman-Porter  42:11 Yeah, that was about it. But that's our skill as speech language pathologists. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  42:17 You showed a lot of dedication. You keep giving a shout out to your team and your lab.     Kelly Knollman-Porter  42:24 I have a special shout out to Mackenzie Pruitt, who worked on that study. She was a masters level student, and she was right there in the trenches with me. I have a great team. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  42:35 I want to go back to this eye fixation behaviors study. While we're not likely to be able to assess eye fixation in daily practice because the equipment and technology is beyond what we would have in our clinics or private practices, but your results really hold clinical significance for understanding reading, processing strengths and challenges. Do you want to describe some of the highlights from that study? Kelly Knollman-Porter  42:59 I think one of the biggest frustrations when you work with someone with reading challenges is you really are not 100% sure how they're processing the written text. We're assessing them, we're watching them, we're seeing their response to the questions. But what are you having difficulty with? You can ask questions, you can watch their eyes clinically. But one thing that eye tracking technology has that I'm grateful for is, it showed me how people with aphasia process written text. And we wanted to specifically not just look at the word level, there's some great research out on word level processing and sentence level processing. But we wanted to take a big leap and look at multi sentence processing. So what are those eyes doing? What did they fixate on? What are they regressing to, and again, I'm going to give another shout out to Drew Bevelhimer. He was also a master's level student that was working in my lab at the time, who, again came alongside me to help get this eye tracking technology going. This really did show me how unique the reading challenges that people with aphasia have when reading multi sentence information. We specifically looked at how often they had within word regressions, like within a longer word within sentence regression--so when their eyes look back to another word within the sentence, and then how often they look back to a previous sentence. And one thing that that really showed us is with the use of text to text to speech technology, their numbers of regressions significantly decreased. So they did not have to regress as much while reading, which again, resulted in a decrease in processing time. Another thing that this study showed, which I and my colleagues thought was really interesting, we actually brought in a group of neurotypicals to do this study also. When we used the default text to speech voice rate,  we actually found the opposite results with neurotypicals. When using text to speech, set at that default speed, like right around 150 to 180 words per minute, they actually had more regressions with text to speech than in the read only condition. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  45:39 So, you have to match the speed with the person. Is that where this is headed? Kelly Knollman-Porter  45:43 That is exactly where that's headed. It really reinforced to us how you have to consider the speed of that text to speech voice. Because if you do not have the appropriate speed, it can actually have some detrimental effects in causing more regressions. That's one thing, looking to the future, that my colleagues and I are going start looking at-- exploring how to get that synching better in terms of the eye movements with the rate of speech. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  46:17 So is that is next in your research, where you're headed, Kelly Knollman-Porter  46:21 That's where we're headed., Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  46:23 I'm going to look forward to that. I just want to say that your body of research on reading and reading comprehension, and supporting and using strategies and understanding the patterns and challenges that people with aphasia have and how they get them back in the game to support them. I just think it's such a valuable contribution. I really appreciate this beautiful body of research. And there was another March 2023, ASHA Leader article, besides the one on text to speech, that describes how reading impacts return to work. It's an article that tells a story about your efforts to support a teacher who was working to return to the classroom. I'll put that link in the show notes too, because it's a beautiful collaborative, “we're going to do this as a team” story. And it wasn't easy. But it was very much supporting the individual goals and journey of your client. Do you have any parting advice as we wrap up for clinicians who are going to assess and work with reading with their clients? That's what this whole show has been about. But what else do you want to add we end?     Kelly Knollman-Porter  47:36 Don't be afraid to explore reading. I know it seems intimidating and overwhelming, because it is challenging to figure out what's specifically the problem, but I can honestly say that if you invest some time in it, the outcomes are going to be worth it for your clients. I look to some books studies that I've done here within our Miami University aphasia support group and, and I have many members that prior to the book club study that I did, had not picked up a novel for 15 years since their stroke, and through adaptive materials, and again, shout out to Roberta Elman's work in the Book Connection materials that her and her group have created. We've used them a lot here at Miami University. But through those adaptive materials that she's created, she's opened up a world of opportunity for people with aphasia to be able to access books. Giving people that opportunity to get back to reading materials that they'd like to read is just really rewarding. Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  48:55 Thank you so, so much for this conversation and for all the work you're doing. And we'd like to close with one kind of broader, big picture question. Kelly, if you had to pick only one thing that we need to achieve urgently as a community of Life Participation providers, what would that one thing be? Kelly Knollman-Porter  49:23 When we talked about this question, I was slightly discouraged because my ultimate reason for going and doing research was to provide research that will lead to greater reimbursement of services for people with chronic aphasia.  I hate to say it, but here are 15 years later, that's still my big takeaway point. We need to find better ways of helping people with aphasia in the chronic phases get reimbursement for services that they so desperately need. We also need to talk to clinicians across the country. We have to be very careful in terms of how we give services to this population. They can still make progress. They can still make gains. We just need the support in order to make that happen. I'm just going to throw one other thing out there. This pertains to the ASHA Leader 2023 article for the teacher that was trying to get back to work. We need to find more opportunities for people with aphasia to still have part-time jobs without losing their benefits, because they're caught between a rock and a hard place. If I go back to work a little bit, I'm going to lose my benefits. I remember in that article, Christine Bowles, who we interviewed, shared working full time is too hard, but I still have more to give. I still have more to give. I'm not done yet. I'm only in my 40s. Why can't we give people with aphasia more opportunity to work without losing benefits?  Ellen Bernstein-Ellis  51:09 Thank you for that message. I think it's critical and one that a lot of people face and think about. So thank you for bringing that up. And for participating today. It's been a wonderful opportunity to talk about your work. Your passion and excitement comes across so much. And I'm going to thank our listeners for listening today. And I just want to remind that our references and resources mentioned in today's show, just see our show notes. They're available on the website, www dot aphasia access.org. And there you can also become a member of our organization and support the podcast and all the other great work that's being done by aphasia access, and you can also browse our growing library of materials and find out about the Aphasia Access Academy. And if you have an idea for a future podcast episode, email us at info at Aphasiaaccess.org. For Aphasia Access Conversations. I'm Ellen Bernstein-Ellis. And thanks again for your ongoing support aphasia access   References and Resources The reading intake questionnaire discussed in this interview, is accessible here: https://aphasiaacc.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/Reading%20History%20Questionnaire-Knollman-Porter-AphasiaAccessPodcast.pdf   To see examples of adapted book club materials mentioned in this episode, go to: The Book Connection on the Aphasia Center of California website: https://aphasiacenter.net/the-book-connection/   Hux, K., Wallace, S. E., Brown, J. A., & Knollman-Porter, K. (2021). Perceptions of people with aphasia about supporting reading with text-to-speech technology: A convergent mixed methods study. Journal of communication disorders, 91, 106098. Hux, K., Knollman-Porter, K., Brown, J., & Wallace, S. E. (2017). Comprehension of synthetic speech and digitized natural speech by adults with aphasia. Journal of Communication Disorders, 69, 15-26. Knollman-Porter, K. (2023). Navigating a Job's Language Demands After a Stroke. Leader Live. The ASHA LEADER, 28(2), 42-46. Knollman-Porter, K., Bevelhimer, A., Hux, K., Wallace, S. E., Hughes, M. R., & Brown, J. A. (2023). Eye Fixation Behaviors and Processing Time of People With Aphasia and Neurotypical Adults When Reading Narratives With and Without Text-to-Speech Support. Journal of Speech, Language, and Hearing Research, 66(1), 276-295. Knollman-Porter, K., Brown, J., Hux, K., Wallace, S., & Crittenden A. (2022).  Reading comprehension and processing time when people with aphasia use text-to-speech technology with personalized supports and features.  American Journal of Speech-Language Pathology, 31, 342-358. Knollman-Porter, K., Dietz, A., & Dahlem, K. (2018). Intensive auditory comprehension treatment for severe aphasia: A feasibility study. American Journal of Speech-Language Pathology, 27(3), 936-949. Knollman-Porter, K., Hux, K., Wallace, S. E., Pruitt, M., Hughes, M. R., & Brown, J. A. (2022). Comprehension, Processing Time, and Modality Preferences When People With Aphasia and Neurotypical Healthy Adults Read Books: A Pilot Study. American Journal of Speech-Language Pathology, 31(6), 2569-2590. Knollman-Porter, K., & Julian, S. K. (2019). Book club experiences, engagement, and reading support use by people with aphasia. American journal of speech-language pathology, 28(3), 1084-1098. Knollman-Porter, K., Wallace, S. E., Brown, J. A., Hux, K., Hoagland, B. L., & Ruff, D. R. (2019). Effects of written, auditory, and combined modalities on comprehension by people with aphasia. American Journal of Speech-Language Pathology, 28(3), 1206-1221. Knollman-Porter, K., Wallace, S. E., Hux, K., Brown, J., & Long, C. (2015). Reading experiences and use of supports by people with chronic aphasia. Aphasiology, 29(12), 1448-1472.   Wallace, S. E., Hux, K., Knollman-Porter, K., Patterson, B., & Brown, J. A. (2023). A Mixed-Methods Exploration of the Experience of People With Aphasia Using Text-to-Speech Technology to Support Virtual Book Club Participation. American Journal of Speech-Language Pathology, 1-24.   Wallace, S. E., Knollman-Porter, K., & Hux, K. (2023). How Text-to-Speech Aids Reading for People With Aphasia. Leader Live 28(2), 52-53. Wallace, S. E., Hux, K., Knollman-Porter, K., Brown, J. A., Parisi, E., & Cain, R. (2022). Reading behaviors and text-to-speech technology perceptions of people with aphasia. Assistive Technology, 34(5), 599-610.  

Ancient aliens visited Earth many millennia ago and genetically modified primitive hominids, according to former aeronautical engineer Mike Bara. In his first interview on Exopolitics Today, Bara discusses how he became interested in the UFO issue and ancient aliens due to his collaboration with veteran researcher Richard Hoagland in the 1990s, which culminated in their jointly authored 2007 book, Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA. In their book, Hoagland and Bara expose the three main groups running NASA from behind the scenes: Magicians, Freemasons, and Nazis. Bara and Dr. Michael Salla discuss the respective influence of these groups on NASA and how NASA is a front for a secret space program using far more advanced aerospace technologies than rockets. Bara and Dr. Salla next discuss the President Kennedy assassination and how it arose from JFK's desire to share UFO secrets with the Soviet Union in an effort to shake them loose from CIA control. Finally, Bara expresses his views on David Grusch and what lies ahead with the UAP Disclosure Act for 2023. While he believes UFO disclosure over the next six months to a year is going to be a muddled affair, Bara is optimistic that transformative changes are about to hit our planet. website is http://mikebara.blogspot.com/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exopolitics/support

Lexi Hoagland knows what a great network can do for you. Tune in this week as she shares tips and tricks and a great group she created called Cowgirls & Cocktails. Lexi talks about her time in Nashville to getting her start in Texas. Connect with Lexi - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexihoagland/ Cowgirls & Cocktails - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1137708760140272/

FOR TRANSCRIPT CLICK HERE. In this episode, poet Michael Mark joins us to talk about the poem that has been a friend to him: 'Little Champion' by Tony Hoagland.Michael Mark is the author of Visiting Her in Queens is More Enlightening than a Month in a Monastery in Tibet, which won the 2022 Rattle Chapbook prize. His poems have appeared in Best American Poetry, Copper Nickel, The New York Times, Pleiades, Ploughshares, Southern Review, The Sun, 32 Poems, and The Poetry Foundation's American Life in Poetry. His two books of stories are Toba and At the Hands of a Thief (Atheneum). michaeljmark.com We are hugely grateful to Michael for visiting The Poetry Exchange and talking so openly and eloquently about his connection with 'Little Champion.'You can find 'Little Champion' in Tony Hogland's collection 'Application for Release from the Dream', published by Graywolf Press (2015). Many thanks to Grawywolf Press for their support.Michael Mark is in conversation with The Poetry Exchange team members Andrea Witzke Slot and John Prebble.The 'gift' reading of 'Little Champion' is by John Prebble.*********Little Championby Tony HoaglandWhen I get hopeless about human life,which quite frankly is far too difficult for me,I like to remember that in the desert there isa little butterfly that lives by drinking urine. And when I have to take the bus to work on Saturday,or spend an hour opening the mail,deciding what to keep and what to throw away,one piece at a time, I think of the butterfly following its animal aroundthrough the morning and the night,fluttering, weaving sideways throughthe cactus and the rocks. And when I have to meet all Tuesday afternoonwith the committee to discuss new bylaws,or listen to the dinner guest explain his recipe for German beer, or hear the scholar tell, again,about her campaign to destroy, once and for all,the cult of heteronormativity, I think of that tough little championwith orange and black markings on its wings,resting in the shade beneath a ledge of rockwhile its animal sleeps nearby; and I see how the droplets hang and gleam amongthe thorns and drab green leaves of desert plantsand how the butterfly alights and drinks from themdeeply, with a stillness of utter concentration. Published in The Sun Magazine, November 2014 and in the collection, 'Application for Release from the Dream' (Graywolf Press, 2015). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This content is for Members only. Come and join us by subscribing here In the meantime, here's some more details about the show: It's a warm welcome then to the man himself: Dr. Brad Stone - the JazzWeek Programmer of the Year 2017, who's here every Thursday to present The Creative Source - a two hour show, highlighting jazz-fusion and progressive jazz flavours from back then, the here and now, plus occasional forays into the future. Please feel free to get in touch with Brad with any comments or suggestions you might have; he'll be more than happy to hear from you: brad@soulandjazz.com or follow him via Facebook or Twitter. Enjoy! The Creative Source 10th August 2023 Artist - Track - Album - Year Roni Ben-Hur    Waiting for JH    Love Letters    2023 Pete McCann    Without Question    Without Question    2023 Christine Jensen    Wind Up    Day Moon    2023 Jeb Patton    Prelude in E Minor    Preludes    2023 Ken Fowser    When It's All Over    Resolution    2023 Guillermo Klein Quintet    Criolla    Telmo's Tune    2023 Kait Dunton    Extended Warranty    Keyboards    2023 Dhaivat Jani Plus    Kaleidoscope    Sum//Parts    2023 The 14 Jazz Orchestra    Islands    Islands    2023 Clark Sommers    Cave Dweller    Feast Ephemera    2023 Dave Meder    Modern Gothic    New American Hymnal    2023 Yelena Eckemoff    Accident    Lonely Man and His Fish    2023 Keigo Hirakawa    Unmarked Path    Pixel    2023 Lennie Moore    Planetary Misalignment    Mentors    2023 Josh Nelson    Forward Momentum    L.A. Stories: Live at Sam First    2022 Buselli-Wallarab Jazz Orchestra    Movement 3: Hoagland. 2. Riverboat Shuffle, Part One    The Gennett Suite    2023 Buselli-Wallarab Jazz Orchestra    Movement 3: Hoagland. 3. Riverboat Shuffle, Part Two    The Gennett Suite    2023 Noshir Mody    Mystic    A Love Song    2023 Mat Maneri Quartet    Dust to Dust    Ash    2023 Jason Kao Hwang Critical Response    Upside Circle Down    Book of Stories    2023 The post The Creative Source (#CreativeSource) – 10th August 2023 appeared first on SoulandJazz.com | Stereo, not stereotypical ®.

We are joined this week by Chris Hoagland. Chris is a free spirited guy known for dropping in unexpectedly at events, spreading his positivity to everyone around him as well as his sense of humor. We have given up on hosting Batman in the studio after Chris helps us realize that the Joker is a better man and Bruce Wayne is a narcissist intent on hurting everyone around him under the guise of being a hero. Please welcome CHRIS HOAGLAND and if you are ever in need of good laugh, this is your guy. Coincidentally, he is also Andrew's cousin. We also have big announcement on the future of the podcast on this episode you don't want to miss. Enjoy the SHOW! https://www.instagram.com/csh6 WEBSITE || https://www.noprisonerspodcast.com || Follow Us on Instagram || https://www.instagram.com/nopris0ners https://www.instagram.com/_andrew_mann https://www.instagram.com/gilmartobar || SHOP OUR MERCH || https://www.noprisonerspodcast.com/shop --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/noprisoners/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/noprisoners/support

In today's episode we chat with Eddie Hoagland about pro tips for leading worship teams, how to grow and scale your ministry, and how to handle team division in your ministry. Eddie brings helpful insight and reflections on leadership whether you're a smaller church, or a growing church. Thanks to Eddie for making the time for being with us.  Apply to Join Worship Ministry School: https://churchfront.me/apply Free Worship and Production Toolkit: https://churchfront.me/toolkit Shop Our Online Courses: https://churchfront.me/courses Join us at the Churchfront Live Conference: https://churchfront.me/conference Beginner Church Sound Course: https://churchfront.me/church-sound Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Apply to Work with Eddie at New Life https://churchfront.me/workatnewlife Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront: https://kit.co/churchfront/youtube-setup • • • • • Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN  

Matt "Hoagie" Hoagland of the Pod Street Bullies joins Jim for a quick recap of today's introductory Press Conference for new Flyers President of Hockey Operations, Keith Jones, and for new Flyers General Manager, Danny Briere.

In the Summer of 2013, a loving husband and devoted father of three mysteriously vanished in Newtown, Connecticut. After nearly 10 years of speculation, confusion, and questions, Robert Hoagland's family would learn the shocking truth about what really happened to him and it was more painful than they could have ever imagined. Instagram: @CousinsonCrimePodcast Email: CousinsonCrime@gmail.com Theme Music by AleXZavesa Sources: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465507469101492&set=a.285880747064166&type=3 https://hudsonvalleypost.com/missing-person-sullivan-county/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/dissociative-fugue-psychogenic-fugue

True Crime Personality and Psychology True Crime Psychology and Personality is a podcast that profiles criminal personalities, discusses personality disorders, and examines real life events from a scientifically informed perspective.   Want more mental health content? Check out our other Podcasts:  Mental Health // Demystified with Dr. Tracey Marks  Healthy // Toxic Cluster B: A Look At Narcissism, Antisocial, Borderline, and Histrionic Disorders Here, Now, Together with Rou Reynolds   Links for Dr. Grande Dr. Grande on YouTube   Produced by Ars Longa Media Learn more at arslonga.media. Produced by: Christopher Breitigan and Erin McCue. Executive Producer: Patrick C. Beeman, MD   Legal Stuff The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not professional advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Robert Hoagland was reported missing from Newtown, Connecticut in 2013. He was found dead in Rock Hill, New York, in December 2022. We covered Robert's disappearance and his shocking ending. Now, we've learned new information on Robert's life in Rock Hill, where he had been living as Richard King for the past nine years. What has Robert been doing? Where was he working? We find out all of that from "Richard King's" best friend.Join the discussion on this episode here: https://galas.fm/episode/fb94f47f-cb77-5f6b-86fc-6e3a725f7529Find us everywhere: https://linktr.ee/attwgpodGet episodes early and ad-free on Patreon: https://patreon.com/attwgpodMerch store: https://www.andthentheyweregone.com/merch-storeFor a full list of our sources, please visit our blog: https://andthentheyweregone.com/blogLooking for dinner ideas? Look no further than Hello Fresh, America's #1 meal kit. Ready to try it out? Go to www.HelloFresh.com/attwg70 and use code attwg70 for 70% off plus free shipping!