Podcast appearances and mentions of lauren goode

Meta just announced a major move in its AI efforts – investing in Scale AI and building a superintelligence AI research lab. While Meta has been trying to keep up with big names in the AI race, such as Open AI, Anthropic and Google, the company's new strategy includes dropping some serious cash to acquire talent and invest in Scale AI. Today on the show, we dive into the deal between Meta and Scale AI, including what Meta aims to get out of investment, and we ask the question we are all wondering: What is superhuman intelligence, anyway? You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In the past six months, OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, and others have released web-browsing agents that are designed to complete tasks independently, with only minimal input from humans. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has even called AI agents “the next giant breakthrough.”  On today's episode, we'll dive into what makes these agents different from other forms of machine intelligence, and whether their capabilities can live up to the hype.You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Expanded deportations, a virtually shutdown asylum process, increased scrutiny of H1-B visa applicants—immigration policy has been overhauled under the latest Trump administration. And, just last week the Trump administration said it would begin revoking the visas of some Chinese students who are currently studying at U.S. schools. On today's episode, we dive into the impacts that these changes could have on the tech industry from the talent pipeline to future innovations.Articles mentioned in this episode: The Trump Administration Wants to Create an ‘Office of Remigration', US Tech Visa Applications Are Being Put Through the WringerYou can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy are taking the reins of this week's episode! Does a robot vacuum really need an arm to help keep your home floors clean? Inside the chaotic struggle to keep Fisker EVs maintain connectivity. A wireless way to charge your low-powered smart devices. And insight into Sam Altman's company, OpenAI, acquiring Jony Ive's AI startup company, io. Jennifer shares her thoughts on Roborock's Saros Z70 Robot Vacuum after testing it out for some time. Emily talks about an association formed by Fisker owners following the company's bankruptcy and how it collapsed following disputes over costs and a botched software upgrade with American Lease. Jennifer also had the opportunity to use a new wireless power system from Wi-Charge, which uses infrared lasers to charge low-powered devices, such as smart locks, wirelessly. And Lauren Goode, Senior Correspondent for WIRED, joins Emily to discuss Sam Altman and Jony Ive's partnership to create AI hardware following OpenAI's acquisition of Jony Ive's io company. Hosts: Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy Guest: Lauren Goode Download or subscribe to Tech News Weekly at https://twit.tv/shows/tech-news-weekly. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: Melissa.com/twit threatlocker.com for Tech News Weekly joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT

Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy are taking the reins of this week's episode! Does a robot vacuum really need an arm to help keep your home floors clean? Inside the chaotic struggle to keep Fisker EVs maintain connectivity. A wireless way to charge your low-powered smart devices. And insight into Sam Altman's company, OpenAI, acquiring Jony Ive's AI startup company, io. Jennifer shares her thoughts on Roborock's Saros Z70 Robot Vacuum after testing it out for some time. Emily talks about an association formed by Fisker owners following the company's bankruptcy and how it collapsed following disputes over costs and a botched software upgrade with American Lease. Jennifer also had the opportunity to use a new wireless power system from Wi-Charge, which uses infrared lasers to charge low-powered devices, such as smart locks, wirelessly. And Lauren Goode, Senior Correspondent for WIRED, joins Emily to discuss Sam Altman and Jony Ive's partnership to create AI hardware following OpenAI's acquisition of Jony Ive's io company. Hosts: Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy Guest: Lauren Goode Download or subscribe to Tech News Weekly at https://twit.tv/shows/tech-news-weekly. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: Melissa.com/twit threatlocker.com for Tech News Weekly joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT

Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy are taking the reins of this week's episode! Does a robot vacuum really need an arm to help keep your home floors clean? Inside the chaotic struggle to keep Fisker EVs maintain connectivity. A wireless way to charge your low-powered smart devices. And insight into Sam Altman's company, OpenAI, acquiring Jony Ive's AI startup company, io. Jennifer shares her thoughts on Roborock's Saros Z70 Robot Vacuum after testing it out for some time. Emily talks about an association formed by Fisker owners following the company's bankruptcy and how it collapsed following disputes over costs and a botched software upgrade with American Lease. Jennifer also had the opportunity to use a new wireless power system from Wi-Charge, which uses infrared lasers to charge low-powered devices, such as smart locks, wirelessly. And Lauren Goode, Senior Correspondent for WIRED, joins Emily to discuss Sam Altman and Jony Ive's partnership to create AI hardware following OpenAI's acquisition of Jony Ive's io company. Hosts: Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy Guest: Lauren Goode Download or subscribe to Tech News Weekly at https://twit.tv/shows/tech-news-weekly. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: Melissa.com/twit threatlocker.com for Tech News Weekly joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT

There's been a lot of talk about how AI tools like ChatGPT are changing education. Students are using AI to do research, write papers, and get better grades. So today on the show, we debate whether using AI in school is actually cheating. Plus, we dive into how students and teachers are using these tools, and we ask what place AI should have in the future of learning. You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy are taking the reins of this week's episode! Does a robot vacuum really need an arm to help keep your home floors clean? Inside the chaotic struggle to keep Fisker EVs maintain connectivity. A wireless way to charge your low-powered smart devices. And insight into Sam Altman's company, OpenAI, acquiring Jony Ive's AI startup company, io. Jennifer shares her thoughts on Roborock's Saros Z70 Robot Vacuum after testing it out for some time. Emily talks about an association formed by Fisker owners following the company's bankruptcy and how it collapsed following disputes over costs and a botched software upgrade with American Lease. Jennifer also had the opportunity to use a new wireless power system from Wi-Charge, which uses infrared lasers to charge low-powered devices, such as smart locks, wirelessly. And Lauren Goode, Senior Correspondent for WIRED, joins Emily to discuss Sam Altman and Jony Ive's partnership to create AI hardware following OpenAI's acquisition of Jony Ive's io company. Hosts: Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy Guest: Lauren Goode Download or subscribe to Tech News Weekly at https://twit.tv/shows/tech-news-weekly. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: Melissa.com/twit threatlocker.com for Tech News Weekly joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT

Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy are taking the reins of this week's episode! Does a robot vacuum really need an arm to help keep your home floors clean? Inside the chaotic struggle to keep Fisker EVs maintain connectivity. A wireless way to charge your low-powered smart devices. And insight into Sam Altman's company, OpenAI, acquiring Jony Ive's AI startup company, io. Jennifer shares her thoughts on Roborock's Saros Z70 Robot Vacuum after testing it out for some time. Emily talks about an association formed by Fisker owners following the company's bankruptcy and how it collapsed following disputes over costs and a botched software upgrade with American Lease. Jennifer also had the opportunity to use a new wireless power system from Wi-Charge, which uses infrared lasers to charge low-powered devices, such as smart locks, wirelessly. And Lauren Goode, Senior Correspondent for WIRED, joins Emily to discuss Sam Altman and Jony Ive's partnership to create AI hardware following OpenAI's acquisition of Jony Ive's io company. Hosts: Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy Guest: Lauren Goode Download or subscribe to Tech News Weekly at https://twit.tv/shows/tech-news-weekly. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: Melissa.com/twit threatlocker.com for Tech News Weekly joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT

Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy are taking the reins of this week's episode! Does a robot vacuum really need an arm to help keep your home floors clean? Inside the chaotic struggle to keep Fisker EVs maintain connectivity. A wireless way to charge your low-powered smart devices. And insight into Sam Altman's company, OpenAI, acquiring Jony Ive's AI startup company, io. Jennifer shares her thoughts on Roborock's Saros Z70 Robot Vacuum after testing it out for some time. Emily talks about an association formed by Fisker owners following the company's bankruptcy and how it collapsed following disputes over costs and a botched software upgrade with American Lease. Jennifer also had the opportunity to use a new wireless power system from Wi-Charge, which uses infrared lasers to charge low-powered devices, such as smart locks, wirelessly. And Lauren Goode, Senior Correspondent for WIRED, joins Emily to discuss Sam Altman and Jony Ive's partnership to create AI hardware following OpenAI's acquisition of Jony Ive's io company. Hosts: Emily Forlini and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy Guest: Lauren Goode Download or subscribe to Tech News Weekly at https://twit.tv/shows/tech-news-weekly. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: Melissa.com/twit threatlocker.com for Tech News Weekly joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT

Elon Musk says he's stepping back from his role with the so-called Department of Government Efficiency to turn his attention to his businesses—most urgently to Tesla, which has faced global sales slumps in recent months. Today on the show, we discuss how our understanding of DOGE has evolved over the past five months and what we think will happen when Musk scales back. You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In the days before his inauguration, President Trump announced his own cryptocurrency, TRUMP coin, a move that could stand to make the Trump family significantly wealthier. And now, Trump has offered investors something else– access to him, when he recently announced he'll hold a private dinner with the largest investors in TRUMP coin. In this week's episode, we talk about Trump's venture into cryptocurrency and the giant web of ethical concerns it presents. You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In the year 2000, measles were declared eliminated from the United States. But thanks to declining vaccination rates, Americans may have to contend with a much scarier future for the deadly disease. Today on the show, we talk about the state of measles, and we explain the role Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Secretary of  Health and Human Services, has played in the shifting culture around vaccines in America.You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Under the new Trump administration, more and more visa holders and foreign visitors are being detained or denied entry at the border. It's also becoming more common for people to be questioned or detained because of content on their phones, laptops and cameras. In today's episode, we'll tell you what you need to know about your carrying devices across the US border, and how to stay safe. Plus, we share some pretty spectacular recommendations for your downtime.You can follow our hosts on Bluesky—Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

There have been a number of protests in the past few months pushing back against President Trump's most recent policy changes, and we're likely to see more. Today on the show, WIRED's Senior Editor of Security and Investigations, Andrew Couts, talks us through the technology being used by law enforcement to surveil protests, how surveillance tech has evolved over the years, and what it means for anyone taking to the streets or posting to social media to voice their concerns. Plus, we share WIRED tips on how to stay safe, should you choose to protest. You can follow our hosts on Bluesky— Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

It's been total chaos since President Trump announced tariffs last week. Despite the endless reporting on this story, none of it really makes any sense yet. So today, we attempt to make sense of how the tariffs could revamp the entire tech industry and what you can do to deal with this new normal. You can follow our hosts on Bluesky— Michael Calore is @snackfight, Lauren Goode is @laurengoode, and Katie Drummond is @katie-drummond. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

It's long been believed that Silicon Valley is a hotbed for libertarian ideals, but where did that idea come from? Aside from some high-profile tech founders and investors who either identify as libertarian or express libertarian-esque beliefs, does this set of ideologies really define the Valley? And what is libertarianism anyway?  You can follow Michael Calore on Bluesky at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Bluesky at @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Bluesky @zoeschiffer. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

She sits in on his business meetings, defends him on X, and travels to give talks about how she raised him, the richest man in the world — but who is Elon Musk's mother? Today on the show, we learn all about the model, influencer and author, Maye Musk, while dissecting her most recent travels to China and her possible influence on foreign politics. Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on BlueSky at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on BlueSky at @laurengoode,  and Zoë Schiffer on Bluesky @zoeschiffer. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

If you've spent time in San Francisco or Phoenix in the last couple years, chances are you've probably seen a self-driving car making its way around. This week, we're joined by WIRED's Aarian Marshall to talk about the race to flood our streets with self-driving cars. We'll get into safety regulations, the pros and cons of robo taxis, and we imagine a future where driverless cars become mainstream. You can follow Michael Calore on Bluesky at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Bluesky at @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Bluesky @zoeschiffer. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Silicon Valley is obsessed with solutionism. So, it shouldn't come as a surprise that when it comes to a declining birth rate some of the valley's elite have a clear answer: more babies at all costs. Today on the show, we talk about the pronatalism movement and how ideas around increasing birth rates are trending among some of the valley's biggest and wealthiest names. Articles mentioned in this episode:This Woman Will Decide Which Babies Are BornYou can follow Michael Calore on BlueSky at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on BlueSky at @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on BlueSky at @zoeschiffer. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

What happened at Elon Musk's unexpected White House press conference alongside President Trump? Reuters' Jeff Mason was there. Semafor's Max Tani and First Amendment expert Katie Fallow discuss Trump's $20 million lawsuit against CBS News. We also examine the impact of US AID cuts on global media, with BBC Media Action's Simon Bishop addressing claims of foreign influence. Wired's Lauren Goode profiles venture capitalist Marc Andreessen in a new series on Silicon Valley elites and MSNBC's Chris Hayes discusses his book The Siren's Call, all about the attention economy and big tech's grip on our focus.Guests: Max Tani, Media Editor, Semafor; Katie Fallow, litigation expert, Knight First Amendment Institute; Simon Bishop, CEO, BBC Media Action; Chris Hayes, Host, MSNBC, Lauren Goode, Senior Writer, Wired; Jeff Mason, White House Correspondent, Reuters Presenter: Katie Razzall Producer: Simon Richardson Assistant Producer: Lucy Wai

With the news that Meta is ending its third-party fact-checking program, we dig into the future of content moderation. From Community Notes to automated systems, how do you manage trust and safety for a site with two billion daily active users?Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on BlueSky at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on BlueSky at @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

American healthcare is well known for its extreme cost and worst outcomes among industrialized (such as the 38 OECD member) countries, and beyond that to be remarkably opaque. The high cost of prescription drugs contributes, and little has been done to change that except for the government passing the Affordable Insulin Now Act at the end of 2022, enacted in 2023. But in January 2022 Mark Cuban launched Cost Plus Drugs that has transformed how many Americans can get their prescriptions filled at a fraction of the prevailing prices, bypassing pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) that control 80% of US prescriptions. That was just the beginning of a path of creative destruction (disruptive innovation, after Schumpeter) of many key components American healthcare that Cuban is leading, with Cost Plus Marketplace, Cost Plus Wellness and much more to come. He certainly qualifies as a master disrupter: “someone who is a leader in innovation and is not afraid to challenge the status quo.” Below is a video clip from our conversation dealing with insurance companies. Full videos of all Ground Truths podcasts can be seen on YouTube here. The current one is here. If you like the YouTube format, please subscribe! The audios are also available on Apple and Spotify.Transcript with External links to Audio (00:07):Hello, it's Eric Topol with Ground Truths, and I have our special phenomenal guest today, Mark Cuban, who I think you know him from his tech world contributions and Dallas Mavericks, and the last few years he's been shaking up healthcare with Cost Plus Drugs. So Mark, welcome.Mark Cuban (00:25):Thanks for having me, Eric.Eric Topol (00:27):Yeah, I mean, what you're doing, you've become a hero to millions of Americans getting them their medications at a fraction of the cost they're used to. And you are really challenging the PBM industry, which I've delved into more than ever, just in prep for our conversation. It's just amazing what this group of companies, namely the three big three CVS Caremark, Optum of UnitedHealth and Express Scripts of Cigna with a market of almost $600 billion this year, what they're doing, how can they get away with all this stuff?Inner Workings of Pharmacy Benefit ManagersMark Cuban (01:03):I mean, they're just doing business. I really don't blame them. I blame the people who contract with them. All the companies, particularly the bigger companies, the self-insured companies, where the CEO really doesn't have an understanding of their healthcare or pharmacy benefits. And so, the big PBMs paid them rebates, which they think is great if you're a CEO, when in reality it's really just a loan against the money spent by your sickest employees, and they just don't understand that. So a big part of my time these days is going to CEOs and sitting with them and explaining to them that you're getting ripped off on both your pharmacy and your healthcare side.Eric Topol (01:47):Yeah, it's amazing to me the many ways that they get away with this. I mean, they make companies sign NDAs. They're addicted to rebates. They have all sorts of ways a channel of funds to themselves. I mean, all the things you could think of whereby they even have these GPOs. Each of these companies has a group purchasing organization (I summarized in the Table below).Mark Cuban (02:12):Yeah, which gives them, it's crazy because with those GPOs. The GPO does the deal with the pharmacy manufacturer. Then the GPO also does the deal with the PBM, and then the PBM goes to the self-insured employer in particular and says, hey, we're going to pass through all the rebates. But what they don't say is they've already skimmed off 5%, 10%, 20% or more off the top through their GPO. But that's not even the worst of it. That's just money, right? I mean, that's important, but I mean, even the biggest companies rarely own their own claims data.Mark Cuban (02:45):Now think about what that means. It means you can't get smarter about the wellness of your employees and their families. You want to figure out the best way to do GLP-1s and figure out how to reduce diabetes, whatever it may be. You don't have that claims data. And then they don't allow the companies to control their own formularies. So we've seen Humira biosimilars come out and the big PBMs have done their own version of the biosimilar where we have a product called Yusimry, which is only $594 a month, which is cheaper than the cheapest biosimilar that the big three are selling. And so, you would think in a normal relationship, they would want to bring on this new product to help the employer. No, they won't do it. If the employer asks, can I just add Cost Plus Drugs to my network? They'll say no, every single time.Mark Cuban (03:45):Their job is not to save the employer money, particularly after they've given a rebate. Because once they give that loan, that rebate to the employer, they need to get that money back. It's not a gift. It's a loan and they need to have the rebates, and we don't do rebates with them at all. And I can go down the list. They don't control the formula. They don't control, you mentioned the NDAs. They can't talk to manufacturers, so they can't go to Novo or to Lilly and say, let's put together a GLP-1 wellness program. All these different things that just are common sense. It's not happening. And so, the good news is when I walk into these companies that self-insured and talk to the CEO or CFO, I'm not asking them to do something that's not in their best interest or not in the best interest of the lives they cover. I'm saying, we can save you money and you can improve the wellness of your employees and their families. Where's the downside?Eric Topol (04:40):Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the reason they can't see the claims is because of the privacy issues?Mark Cuban (04:46):No, no. That's just a business decision in the contract that the PBMs have made. You can go and ask. I mean, you have every right to your own claims. You don't need to have it personally identified. You want to find out how many people have GLP-1s or what are the trends, or God forbid there's another Purdue Pharma thing going on, and someone prescribing lots of opioids. You want to be able to see those things, but they won't do it. And that's only on the sponsor side. It's almost as bad if not worse on the manufacturer side.Eric Topol (05:20):Oh, yeah. Well, some of the work of PBMs that you've been talking about were well chronicled in the New York Times, a couple of major articles by Reed Abelson and Rebecca Robbins: The Opaque Industry Secretly Inflating Prices for Prescription Drugs and The Powerful Companies Driving Local Drugstores Out of Business. We'll link those because I think some people are not aware of all the things that are going on in the background.Mark Cuban (05:39):You see in their study and what they reported on the big PBMs, it's crazy the way it works. And literally if there was transparency, like Cost Plus offers, the cost of medications across the country could come down 20%, 30% or more.Cost Plus DrugsEric Topol (05:55):Oh, I mean, it is amazing, really. And now let's get into Cost Plus. I know that a radiologist, Alex Oshmyansky contacted you with a cold email a little over three years ago, and you formed Cost Plus Drugs on the basis of that, right?Mark Cuban (06:12):Yep, that's exactly what happened.Eric Topol (06:15):I give you credit for responding to cold emails and coming up with a brilliant idea with this and getting behind it and putting your name behind it. And what you've done, so you started out with something like 110 generics and now you're up well over 1,200 or 2,500 or something like that?Mark Cuban (06:30):And adding brands. And so, started with 111. Now we're around 2,500 and trying to grow it every single day. And not only that, just to give people an overview. When you go to www.costplusdrugs.com and you put in the name of your medication, let's just say it's tadalafil, and if it comes up. In this case, it will. It'll show you our actual cost, and then we just mark it up 15%. It's the same markup for everybody, and if you want it, we'll have a pharmacist check it. And so, that's a $5 fee. And then if you want ship to mail order, it's $5 for shipping. And if you want to use our pharmacy network, then we can connect you there and you can just pick it up at a local pharmacy.Eric Topol (07:10):Yeah, no, it's transparency. We don't have a lot of that in healthcare in America, right?Mark Cuban (07:15):No. And literally, Eric, the smartest thing that we did, and we didn't expect this, it's always the law of unintended consequences. The smartest thing we did was publish our entire price list because that allowed any company, any sponsor, CMS, researchers to compare our prices to what others were already paying. And we've seen studies come out saying, for this X number of urology drugs, CMS would save $3.6 billion a year. For this number of heart drugs at this amount per year, for chemotherapy drugs or MS drugs this amount. And so, it's really brought attention to the fact that for what PBMs call specialty drugs, whether there's nothing special about them, we can save people a lot of money.Eric Topol (08:01):It's phenomenal. As a cardiologist, I looked up a couple of the drugs that I'm most frequently prescribed, just like Rosuvastatin what went down from $134 to $5.67 cents or Valsartan it went down from $69 to $7.40 cents. But of course, there's some that are much more dramatic, like as you mentioned, whether it's drugs for multiple sclerosis, the prostate cancer. I mean, some of these are just thousands and thousands of dollars per month that are saved, brought down to levels that you wouldn't think would even be conceivable. And this has been zero marketing, right?Mark Cuban (08:42):Yeah, none. It's all been word of mouth and my big mouth, of course. Going out there and doing interviews like this and going to major media, but it's amazing. We get emails and letters and people coming up to us almost single day saying, you saved my grandma's life. You saved my life. We weren't going to be able to afford our imatinib or our MS medication. And it went from being quoted $2,000 a month to $33 a month. It's just insane things like that that are still happening.Eric Topol (09:11):Well, this is certainly one of the biggest shakeups to occur in US healthcare in years. And what you've done in three years is just extraordinary. This healthcare in this country is with its over 4 trillion, pushing $5 trillion a year of expenditure.[New CMS report this week pegs the number at $4.867 trillion for 2023]Mark Cuban (09:30):It's interesting. I think it's really fixable. This has been the easiest industry to the disrupt I've ever been involved in. And it's not even close because all it took was transparency and not jacking up margins to market. We choose to use a fixed margin markup. Some choose to price to market, the Martin Shkreli approach, if you will. And just by being transparent, we've had an impact. And the other side of it is, it's the same concept on the healthcare side. Transparency helps, but to go a little field of pharmacy if you want. The insane part, and this applies to care and pharmacy, whatever plan we have, whether it's for health or whether it's for pharmaceuticals, there's typically a deductible, typically a copay, and typically a co-insurance.Insurance CompaniesMark Cuban (10:20):The crazy part of all that is that people taking the default risk, the credit risk are the providers. It's you, it's the hospital, it's the clinics that you work for. Which makes no sense whatsoever that the decisions that you or I make for our personal insurance or for the companies we run, or if we work for the government, what we do with Medicare or Medicare Advantage, the decisions we all make impacts the viability of providers starting with the biggest hospital systems. And so, as a result, they become subprime lenders without a car or a house to go after if they can't collect. And so, now you see a bunch of people, particularly those under the ACA with the $9,000, the bronze plans or $18,000 out-of-pocket limits go into debt, significant medical debt. And it's unfortunate. We look at the people who are facing these problems and think, well, it must be the insurance companies.Mark Cuban (11:23):It's actually not even the insurance companies. It's the overall design of the system. But underneath that, it's still whoever picks the insurance companies and sets plans that allow those deductibles, that's the core of the problem. And until we get to a system where the providers aren't responsible for the credit for defaults and dealing with all that credit risk, it's almost going to be impossible to change. Because when you see stories like we've all seen in news of a big healthcare, a BUCA healthcare (Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS), UnitedHealth, Cigna, and Aetna/CVS) plan with all the pre-authorizations and denials, typically they're not even taking the insurance risk. They're acting as the TPA (third party administrator) as the claims processor effectively for whoever hired them. And it goes back again, just like I talked about before. And as long as CMS hires or allows or accepts these BUCAs with these plans for Medicare for the ACA (Affordable care Act), whatever it may be, it's not going to work. As long as self-insured employers and the 50 million lives they cover hire these BUCAs to act as the TPAs, not as insurance companies and give them leeway on what to approve and what to authorize and what not to authorize. The system's going to be a mess, and that's where we are today.Academic Health System PartnershipsEric Topol (12:41):Yeah. Well, you've been talking of course to employers and enlightening them, and you're also enlightening the public, of course. That's why you have millions of people that are saving their cost of medications, but recently you struck a partnership with Penn Medicine. That's amazing. So is that your first academic health system that you approached?Cost Plus MarketplaceMark Cuban (13:00):I don't know if it was the first we approached, but it was certainly one of the biggest that we signed. We've got Cost Plus Marketplace (CPM) where we make everything from injectables to you name it, anything a hospital might buy. But again, at a finite markup, we make eight and a half percent I think when it's all said and done. And that saves hospital systems millions of dollars a year.Eric Topol (13:24):Yeah. So that's a big change in the way you're proceeding because what it was just pills that you were buying from the pharma companies, now you're actually going to make injectables and you're going to have a manufacturing capability. Is that already up and going?Mark Cuban (13:39):That's all up and going as of March. We're taking sterile injectables that are on the shortage list, generic and manufacturing them in Dallas using a whole robotics manufacturing plant that really Alex created. He's the rocket scientist behind it. And we're limited in capacity now, we're limited about 2 million vials, but we'll sell those to Cost Plus Marketplace, and we'll also sell those direct. So Cost Plus Marketplace isn't just the things we manufacture. It's a wide variety of products that hospitals buy that we then have a minimal markup, and then for the stuff we manufacture, we'll sell those to direct to like CHS was our first customer.Eric Topol (14:20):Yeah, that's a big expansion from going from the pills to this. Wow.Mark Cuban (14:24):It's a big, big expansion, but it goes to the heart of being transparent and not being greedy, selling on a markup. And ourselves as a company, being able to remain lean and mean. The only way we can sell at such a low markup. We have 20 employees on the Cost Plus side and 40 employees involved with the factories, and that's it.Eric Topol (14:46):Wow. So with respect to, you had this phenomenal article and interview with WIRED Magazine just this past week. I know Lauren Goode interviewed you, and she said, Mark, is this really altruistic and I love your response. You said, “how much f*****g money do I need? I'm not trying to land on Mars.” And then you said, “at this point in my life, it's just like more money, or f**k up the healthcare industry.” This was the greatest, Mark. I mean, I got to tell you, it was really something.Mark Cuban (15:18):Yeah.Eric Topol (15:19):Well, in speaking of that, of course, the allusion to a person we know well, Elon. He posted on X/Twitter in recent days , I think just three or four days ago, shouldn't the American people be getting their money's worth? About this high healthcare administration costs where the US is completely away from any other OECD country. And as you and I know, we have the worst outcomes and the most costs of all the rich countries in the world. There's just nothing new here. Maybe it's new to him, but you had a fabulous response on both X and Bluesky where you went over all these things point by point. And of course, the whole efforts that you've been working on now for three years. You also mentioned something that was really interesting that I didn't know about were these ERISA lawsuits[Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) of 1974.] Can you tell us about that?ERISA LawsuitsMark Cuban (16:13):Yeah, that's a great question, Eric. So for self-insured companies in particular, we have a fiduciary responsibility on a wellness and on a financial basis to offer the members, your employees and their families the best outcomes at the best price. Now, you can't guarantee best outcomes, but you have to be able to explain the choices you made. You don't have to pick the cheapest, but again, you have to be able to explain why you made the choices that you did. And because a lot of companies have been doing, just like we discussed earlier, doing deals on the pharmacy side with just these big PBMs, without accounting for best practices, best price, best outcomes, a couple companies got sued. Johnson and Johnson and Wells Fargo were the first to get sued. And I think that's just the beginning. That's just the writing on the wall. I think they'll lose because they just dealt with the big pharmacy PBMs. And I think that's one of the reasons why we're so busy at Cost Plus and why I'm so busy because we're having conversation after conversation with companies and plenty of enough lawyers for that matter who want to see a price list and be able to compare what they're paying to what we sell for to see if they're truly living up to that responsibility.Eric Topol (17:28):Yeah, no, that's a really important thing that's going on right now that I think a lot of people don't know about. Now, the government of the US think because it's the only government of any rich country in the world, if not any country that doesn't negotiate prices, i.e., CMS or whatever. And only with the recent work of insulin, which is a single one drug, was there reduction of price. And of course, it's years before we'll see other drugs. How could this country not negotiate drugs all these years where every other place in the world they do negotiate with pharma?Mark Cuban (18:05):Because as we alluded to earlier, the first line in every single pharmaceutical and healthcare contract says, you can't talk about this contract. It's like fight club. The number one rule of fight club is you can't talk about fight club, and it's really difficult to negotiate prices when it's opaque and everything's obfuscated where you can't really get into the details. So it's not that we're not capable of it, but it's just when there's no data there, it's really difficult because look, up until we started publishing our prices, how would anybody know?Mark Cuban (18:39):I mean, how was anybody going to compare numbers? And so, when the government or whoever started to negotiate, they tried to protect themselves and they tried to get data, but those big PBMs certainly have not been forthcoming. We've come along and publish our price list and all that starts to change. Now in terms of the bigger picture, there is a solution there, as I said earlier, but it really comes down to talking to the people who make the decisions to hire the big insurance companies and the big PBMs and telling them, no, you're not acting in your own best interest. Here's anybody watching out there. Ask your PBM if they can audit. If you can audit rather your PBM contract. What they'll tell you is, yeah, you can, but you have to use our people. It's insane. And that's from top to bottom. And so, I'm a big believer that if we can get starting with self-insured employers to act in their own best interest, and instead of working with a big PBM work with a pass-through PBM. A pass-through PBM will allow you to keep your own claims, own all your own data, allow you to control your own formulary.Mark Cuban (19:54):You make changes where necessary, no NDA, so you can't talk to manufacturers. All these different abilities that just seem to make perfect sense are available to all self-insured employers. And if the government, same thing. If the government requires pass-through PBMs, the price of medications will drop like a rock.Eric Topol (20:16):Is that possible? You think that could happen?Mark Cuban (20:19):Yes. Somebody's got to understand it and do it. I'm out there screaming, but we will see what happens with the new administration. There's nothing hard about it. And it's the same thing with Medicare and Medicare Advantage healthcare plans. There's nothing that says you have to use the biggest companies. Now, the insurance companies have to apply and get approved, but again, there's a path there to work with companies that can reduce costs and improve outcomes. The biggest challenge in my mind, and I'm still trying to work through this to fully understand it. I think where we really get turned upside down as a country is we try to avoid fraud from the provider perspective and the patient perspective. We're terrified that patients are going to use too much healthcare, and like everybody's got Munchausen disease.Mark Cuban (21:11):And we're terrified that the providers are going to charge too much or turn into Purdue Pharma and over-prescribe or one of these surgery mills that just is having somebody get surgery just so they can make money. So in an effort to avoid those things, we ask the insurance companies and the PBMs to do pre-authorizations, and that's the catch 22. How do we find a better way to deal with fraud at the patient and provider level? Because once we can do that, and maybe it's AI, maybe it's accepting fraud, maybe it's imposing criminal penalties if somebody does those things. But once we can overcome that, then it becomes very transactional. Because the reality is most insurance companies aren't insurance companies. 50 million lives are covered by self-insured employers that use the BUCAs, the big insurance companies, but not as insurance companies.Eric Topol (22:07):Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because if you look at these three big PBMs that control about 80% of the market, not the pass-throughs that you just mentioned, but the big ones, they each are owned by an insurance company. And so, when the employer says, okay, we're going to cover your healthcare stuff here, we're going to cover your prescriptions there.Mark Cuban (22:28):Yeah, it's all vertically integrated.Mark Cuban (22:36):And it gets even worse than that, Eric. So they also own specialty pharmacies, “specialty pharmacies” that will require you to buy from. And as I alluded to earlier, a lot of these medications like Imatinib, they'll list as being a specialty medication, but it's a pill. There's nothing special about it, but it allows them to charge a premium. And that's a big part of how the PBMs make a lot of their money, the GPO stuff we talked about, but also forcing an employer to go through the specialty mail order company that charges an arm and the leg.Impact on Hospitals and ProceduresEric Topol (23:09):Yeah. Well, and the point you made about transparency, we've seen this of course across US healthcare. So for example, as you know, if you were to look at what does it cost to have an operation like let's say a knee replacement at various hospitals, you can find that it could range fivefold. Of course, you actually get the cost, and it could be the hospital cost, and then there's the professional cost. And the same thing occurs for if you're having a scan, if you're having an MRI here or there. So these are also this lack of transparency and it's hard to get to the numbers, of course. There seems to be so many other parallels to the PBM story. Would you go to these other areas you think in the future?Mark Cuban (23:53):Yeah, we're doing it now. I'm doing it. So we have this thing called project dog food, and what it is, it's for my companies and what we've done is say, look, let's understand how the money works in healthcare.Mark Cuban (24:05):And when you think about it, when you go to get that knee done, what happens? Well, they go to your insurance company to get a pre-authorization. Your doctor says you need a knee replacement. I got both my hips replaced. Let's use that. Doctor says, Mark, you need your hips replaced. Great, right? Let's set up an appointment. Well, first the insurance company has to authorize it, okay, they do or they don't, but the doctor eats their time up trying to deal with the pre-authorization. And if it's denied, the doctor's time is eaten up and an assistance's time is eaten up. Some other administrator's time is eaten up, the employer's time is eaten up. So that's one significant cost. And then from there, there's a deductible. Now I can afford my deductible, but if there is an individual getting that hip replacement who can't afford the deductible, now all of a sudden you're still going to be required to do that hip replacement, most likely.Mark Cuban (25:00):Because in most of these contracts that self-insured employers sign, Medicare Advantage has, Medicare has, it says that between the insurance company and the provider, in this case, the hospital, you have to do the operation even if the deductibles not paid. So now the point of all this is you have the hospital in this case potentially accumulating who knows how much bad debt. And it's not just the lost amount of millions and millions and billions across the entire healthcare spectrum that's there. It's all the incremental administrative costs. The lawyers, the benefits for those people, the real estate, the desk, the office space, all that stuff adds up to $10 billion plus just because the hospitals take on that credit default risk. But wait, there's more. So now the surgery happens, you send the bill to the insurance company. The insurance company says, well, we're not going to pay you. Well, we have a contract. This is what it says, hip replacement's $34,000. Well, we don't care first, we're going to wait. So we get the time value of money, and then we're going to short pay you.Mark Cuban (26:11):So the hospital gets short paid. So what do they have to do? They have to sue them or send letters or whatever it is to try to get their money. When we talk to the big hospital systems, they say that's 2%. That's 2% of their revenue. So you have all these associated credit loss dollars, you've got the 2% of, in a lot of cases, billions and billions of dollars. And so, when you add all those things up, what happens? Well, what happens is because the providers are losing all that money and having to spend all those incremental dollars for the administration of all that, they have to jack up prices.Eric Topol (26:51):Yeah. Right.Mark Cuban (26:53):So what we have done, we've said, look for my companies, we're going to pay you cash. We're going to pay you cash day one. When Mark gets that hip replacement, that checks in the bank before the operation starts, if that's the way you want it. Great, they're not going to have pre-authorizations. We're going to trust you until you give us a reason not to trust you. We're not short paying, obviously, because we're paying cash right there then.Mark Cuban (27:19):But in a response for all that, because we're cutting out all those ancillary costs and credit risk, I want Medicare pricing. Now the initial response is, well, Medicare prices, that's awful. We can't do it. Well, when you really think about the cost and operating costs of a hospital, it's not the doctors, it's not the facilities, it's all the administration that cost all the money. It's all the credit risks that cost all the money. And so, if you remove that credit risk and all the administration, all those people, all that real estate, all those benefits and overhead associated with them, now all of a sudden selling at a Medicare price for that hip replacement is really profitable.Eric Topol (28:03):Now, is that a new entity Cost Plus healthcare?Mark Cuban (28:07):Well, it's called Cost Plus Wellness. It's not an entity. What we're going to do, so the part I didn't mention is all the direct contracts that we do that have all these pieces, as part of them that I just mentioned, we're going to publish them.Eric Topol (28:22):Ah, okay.Mark Cuban (28:23):And you can see exactly what we've done. And if you think about the real role of the big insurances companies for hospitals, it's a sales funnel.Getting Rid of Insurance CompaniesEric Topol (28:33):Yeah, yeah. Well, in fact, I really was intrigued because you did a podcast interview with Andrew Beam and the New England Journal of Medicine AI, and in that they talked about getting rid of the insurers, the insurance industry, just getting rid of it and just make it a means test for people. So it's not universal healthcare, it's a different model that you described. Can you go over that? I thought it was fantastic.Mark Cuban (29:00):Two pieces there. Let's talk about universal healthcare first. So for my companies, for our project dog food for the Mark Cuban companies, if for any employee or any of the lives we cover, if they work within network, anybody we have the direct contract with its single-payer. They pay their premiums, but they pay nothing else out of pocket. That's the definition of single-payer.Eric Topol (29:24):Yeah.Mark Cuban (29:25):So if we can get all this done, then the initial single-payers will be self-insured employers because it'll be more cost effective to them to do this approach. We hope, we still have to play it all through. So that's part one. In terms of everybody else, then you can say, why do we need insurance companies if they're not even truly acting as insurance companies? You're not taking full risk because even if it's Medicare Advantage, they're getting a capitated amount per month. And then that's getting risk adjusted because of the population you have, and then there's also an index depending on the location, so there's more or less money that occurs then. So let's just do what we need to do in this particular case, because the government is effectively eliminating the risk for the insurance company for the most part. And if you look at the margins for Medicare Advantage, I was just reading yesterday, it's like $1,700 a year for the average Medicare Advantage plan. So it's not like they're taking a lot of risk. All they're doing is trying to deny as many claims as they can.Eric Topol (30:35):Deny, Deny. Yeah.Mark Cuban (30:37):So instead, let's just get somebody who's a TPA, somebody who does the transaction, the claims processing, and whoever's in charge. It could be CMS, can set the terms for what's accepted and what's denied, and you can have a procedure for people that get denied that want to challenge it. And that's great, there's one in place now, but you make it a little simpler. But you take out the economics for the insurance company to just deny, deny, deny. There's no capitation. There's no nothing.Mark Cuban (31:10):The government just says, okay, we're hiring this TPA to handle the claims processing. It is your job. We're paying you per transaction.Mark Cuban (31:18):You don't get paid more if you deny. You don't get paid less if you deny. There's no bonuses if you keep it under a certain amount, there's no penalties If you go above a certain amount. We want you just to make sure that the patient involved is getting the best care, end of story. And if there's fraud involved as the government, because we have access to all that claims data, we're going to introduce AI that reviews that continuously.Mark Cuban (31:44):So that we can see things that are outliers or things that we question, and there's going to mean mistakes, but the bet was, if you will, where we save more and get better outcomes that way versus the current system and I think we will. Now, what ends up happening on top of that, once you have all that claims data and all that information and everybody's interest is aligned, best care at the best price, no denials unless it's necessary, reduce and eliminate fraud. Once everybody's in alignment, then as long as that's transparent. If the city of Dallas decides for all the lives they cover the 300,000 lives they cover between pharmacy and healthcare, we can usually in actuarial tables and some statistical analysis, we can say, you know what, even with a 15% tolerance, it's cheaper for us just to pay upfront and do this single-pay program, all our employees in the lives we cover, because we know what it's going to take.Mark Cuban (32:45):If the government decides, well, instead of Medicare Advantage the way it was, we know all the costs. Now we can say for all Medicare patients, we'll do Medicare for all, simply because we have definitive and deterministic pricing. Great. Now, there's still going to be outlier issues like all the therapies that cost a million dollars or whatever. But my attitude there is if CMS goes to Lilly, Novo, whoever for their cure for blindness that's $3.4 million. Well, that's great, but what we'll say is, okay, give us access to your books. We want to know what your breakeven point is. What is that breakeven point annually? We'll write you a check for that.Eric Topol (33:26):Yeah.Mark Cuban (33:27):If we have fewer patients than need that, okay, you win. If we have more patients than need that, it's like a Netflix subscription with unlimited subscribers, then we will have whatever it is, because then the manufacturer doesn't lose money, so they can't complain about R&D and not being able to make money. And that's for the CMS covered population. You can do a Netflix type subscription for self-insured employers. Hey, it's 25 cents per month per employee or per life covered for the life of the patent, and we'll commit to that. And so, now all of a sudden you get to a point where healthcare starts becoming not only transparent but deterministic.Eric Topol (34:08):Yeah. What you outline here in these themes are extraordinary. And one of the other issues that you are really advocating is patient empowerment, but one of the problems we have in the US is that people don't own their data. They don't even have all their data. I expect you'd be a champion of that as well.Mark Cuban (34:27):Well, of course. Yeah. I mean, look, I've got into arguments with doctors and public health officials about things like getting your own blood tested. I've been an advocate of getting my own blood tested for 15 years, and it helped me find out that I needed thyroid medication and all of these things. So I'm a big advocate. There's some people that think that too much data gives you a lot of false positives, and people get excited in this day and age to get more care when it should only be done if there are symptoms. I'm not a believer in that at all. I think now, particularly as AI becomes more applicable and available, you'll be able to be smarter about the data you capture. And that was always my final argument. Either you trust doctors, or you don't. Because even if there's an aberrational TSH reading and minus 4.4 and it's a little bit high, well the doctor's going to say, well, let's do another blood test in a month or two. The doctor is still the one that has to write the prescription. There's no downside to trusting your doctor in my mind.Eric Topol (35:32):And what you're bringing up is that we're already seeing how AI can pick up things even in the normal range, the trends long before a clinician physician would pick it up. Now, last thing I want to say is you are re-imagining healthcare like no one. I mean, there's what you're doing here. It started with some pills and it's going in a lot of different directions. You are rocking it here. I didn't even know some of the latest things that you're up to. This seems to be the biggest thing you've ever done.Mark Cuban (36:00):I hope so.Mark Cuban (36:01):I mean, like we said earlier, what could be better than people saying our healthcare system is good. What changed? That Cuban guy.Eric Topol (36:10):Well, did you give up Shark Tank so you could put more energy into this?Mark Cuban (36:16):Not really. It was more for my kids.Eric Topol (36:19):Okay, okay.Mark Cuban (36:20):They go hand in hand, obviously. I can do this stuff at home as opposed to sitting on a set wondering if I should invest in Dude Wipes again.Eric Topol (36:28):Well, look, we're cheering for you. This is, I've not seen a shakeup in my life in American healthcare like this. You are just rocking. It's fantastic.Mark Cuban (36:37):Everybody out there that's watching, check out www.costplusdrugs.com, check out Cost Plus Marketplace, which is business.costplusdrugs.com and just audit everything. What I'm trying to do is say, okay, if it's 1955 and we're starting healthcare all over again, how would we do it? And really just keep it simple. Look to where the risk is and remove the risk where possible. And then it comes down to who do you trust and make sure you trust but verify. Making sure there aren't doctors or systems that are outliers and making sure that there aren't companies that are outliers or patients rather that are outliers. And so, I think there's a path there. It's not nearly as difficult, it's just starting them with corporations, getting those CEOs to get educated and act in their own best interest.Eric Topol (37:32):Well, you're showing us the way. No question. So thanks so much for joining, and we'll be following this with really deep interest because you're moving at high velocity, and thank you.**************************************************Thank you for reading, listening and subscribing to Ground Truths.If you found this fun and informative please share it!All content on Ground Truths—its newsletters, analyses, and podcasts, are free, open-access.Paid subscriptions are voluntary. All proceeds from them go to support Scripps Research. Many thanks to those who have contributed—they have greatly helped fund our summer internship programs for the past two years. I welcome all comments from paid subscribers and will do my best to respond to each of them and any questions.Thanks to my producer Jessica Nguyen and to Sinjun Balabanoff for audio and video support at Scripps Research.FootnoteThe PBMS (finally) are under fire—2 articles from the past week Get full access to Ground Truths at erictopol.substack.com/subscribe

Wearable tech, self-driving cars and AI mishaps. There were a lot of new product launches this year – some more successful than others. This week on Uncanny Valley, we talk about the tech out there that we are most excited about and the tech that has us most terrified for the coming year. Plus, we share our gifting recommendations.  Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on BlueSky at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on BlueSky at @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In a post-Twitter world, text-based social media apps have taken a new shape. X, BlueSky, and Threads are home to wildly different types of discourse. So, which of these apps are actually worth our time?  This week on Uncanny Valley, we talk about the state of text-based social apps and how they impact journalism. And finally, we ask–is it time to quit?  Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on Mastodon at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Threads and @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Sam Altman is the king of generative artificial intelligence. But is he the person we should trust to guide our explorations into AI? This week, we do a deep dive on Sam Altman. From his Midwest roots, to his early startup days, to his time at Venture Capital, and his rise and fall and rise again at OpenAI. Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on Mastodon at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Threads and @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe.

Blood boys. Cryogenic freezing. Living by the algorithm. Silicon Valley is known for a culture of health optimization, but some recent biohacking ventures are becoming more extreme–aimed not just at longevity, but at beating death altogether. This week, we talk about the Silicon Valley moguls obsessed with living forever and the radical measures they're taking to do so.Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on Mastodon at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Threads and @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe.

Much of the tech workforce has become accustomed to remote or hybrid jobs over the last several years. But lately, we've seen big tech companies demanding their teams head back into the office. This week, we look at some of these return-to-office mandates and discuss their ripple effects. Plus, we ask the question on all of our minds: does working in person actually make employees more productive? Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on Mastodon at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Threads and @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe.

For years, Mark Zuckerberg's style could be summed up in a look: the hoodie. But now, he's entered a new style era. One that involves gold chains and oversized tees of his own creation (with a little help from a high-end designer). In this episode of Uncanny Valley, we look into Zuckerberg's style evolution, how it aligns with the future of Meta, and why you should care. Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.You can follow Michael Calore on Mastodon at @snackfight, Lauren Goode on Threads and @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer on Threads @reporterzoe.Share your thoughts on Uncanny Valley. As a token of our appreciation, you will be eligible to enter a prize drawing up to $1,000 after you complete the survey.https://selfserve.decipherinc.com/survey/selfserve/222b/76152?pin=1&uBRANDLINK=7&uCHANNELLINK=2

Welcome to Uncanny Valley—an insider look at the people, power, and influence of Silicon Valley. Join hosts Lauren Goode, Michael Calore, and Zoë Schiffer as they break down new stories or phenomena bubbling up in Silicon Valley. Whether it's a pivotal decision made inside a tech company, a quirky, new habit of a CEO, or the overwhelming expansion of generative AI, we'll explain why these matter and how they affect you.

Everybody wants to talk to their pet. Or to try to get them to listen, anyway. So it's no wonder that some startups think the way to break through the communication barrier between you and your pooch is with a nice big helping of technology. Welcome to a world with AI-enabled dog and cat collars that try to interpret a pet's needs and then share those wishes with their human. The only problem with these devices is that the pet won't actually be a part of the conversation, as the collar is just guessing at what the pet is thinking—but still doing all the talking anyway. It's less like the audio collar worn by the dog from the movie Up, and more like shouting at a chatbot strapped to your dog's neck. Meanwhile, your dog or cat might just be trying to figure out where that new voice is coming from.Later in the show, we talk about all the weird new ways AI gadgets are bouncing around in our lives, and whether any of them are helping us have better conversations.Also, this week marks the final episode of the Gadget Lab podcast—at least in its current form. We'll be back soon with a fresh reboot of the show. Lauren and Michael will return as hosts, but we'll have a third cohost at the table, a new podcast title, and a new angle on our coverage. Show Notes:Stay tuned to this feed for the updated version of this show, out October 31! Read Boone's stories about the talking pet collars and the AI-powered Friend necklace. Read Lauren's story about the challenges of AI hardware. Keep an eye on all the ways AI is weaving into our lives. For all your gadget needs, follow WIRED's onslaught of gear coverage.Recommendations:Boone recommends the rain. Lauren recommends taking walks. Mike recommends KEXP's YouTube channel, where the Seattle radio station posts videos of musical acts playing in its studio.Boone Ashworth can be found on social media but honestly, since he's going to remain as a full-time reporter at WIRED, just email him story tips: boone@wired.com. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight@heads.social. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show was produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music was by Solar Keys.

Ring cameras have come a long way. Since the security camera brand launched 11 years ago, its video doorbells and cams have become vigilant, constant surveyors of patios, porches, and vestibules everywhere. Amazon now owns the company, and has ushered it through controversies over privacy concerns, incidents of vigilantism, and the company's cozy relationship with law enforcement. The drama has not slowed growth; over 10 million Rings have been installed, and the cameras currently blanket our urban and suburban landscape, filming the movements of you, your family, and any strangers who wander near your door.That makes for a lot of video to sift through if you're trying to find something important, like whether or not a delivery was made, or what time your kids left for soccer practice. That abundance of footage is why Ring cameras, along with many other consumer products right now, are getting some AI-powered capabilities. Ring's software update helps users search for specific moments their cameras may have captured.This week, WIRED senior writer Paresh Dave joins the show again to talk about the evolution of Ring—how the security cameras have become nearly ubiquitous security tech, and what the future holds now that they're being infused with AI.Show Notes:Read Paresh's story about Ring's AI updates. Read WIRED's guides to the best indoor and outdoor security cameras. Read more about all the data Ring collects from its users and why we recently stopped recommending Ring cameras for a couple of years.Recommendations:Paresh recommends getting a Sling TV subscription from Dish to watch live sports. Mike recommends searching for decoy security cameras you can install if your landlord requires you to put up a security camera. Lauren recommends the streaming shows Nobody Wants This and Killing Eve. Both are on Netflix.Paresh Dave can be found on social media @peard33. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight@heads.social. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Ozempic has been hailed as a miracle drug. It is the most well known of the GLP-1 medications, a class of drugs that can help regulate appetite, digestion, and blood sugar—and help those suffering from obesity or diabetes lose weight. Naturally, these drugs are very much in demand. But now there is a shortage of Ozempic and other GLP-1s, which has led to a swell of clones that purport to offer the same benefits and the same key ingredient, semaglutide, at lower prices. These clone drugs are easy to procure from telehealth providers, even if a buyer needs to lie about themselves a little bit to buy them.In this brave new weight-loss world, we're still coming to grips with how these drugs fit into our society. Part of that journey is the continued study about how GLP-1 drugs work—much of how they affect us is still unknown—and the continued debate about how much we should regulate and control their use.This week on Gadget Lab, we talk with WIRED writers Kate Knibbs and Emily Mullin about how GLP-1 medications like Ozempic work and what happens when they don't. We also talk about the current drug shortage and how that may get resolved.This episode originally aired July 11, 2024. Read the transcript.Show Notes:Read Kate's story about buying cloned Ozempic online. Read Emily's story about how Ozempic doesn't work for everyone. Read all the stories in WIRED's The Age of Ozempic series.Recommendations:Emily recommends staying cool this summer however you can. Kate recommends the HBO series John Adams, starring Paul Giamatti. Mike recommends buying a used 35-mm film camera and shooting some rolls to flex your creativity.Kate Knibbs can be found on social media @Knibbs. Emily Mullin is @emilylmullin. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

AI data centers are so hot right now. Each time generative AI services churn through their large language models to make a chatbot answer one of your questions, it takes a great deal of processing power to sift through all that data. Doing so can use massive amounts of energy, which means the proliferation of AI is raising questions about how sustainable this tech actually is and how it affects the ecosystems around it. Some companies think they have a solution: running those data centers underwater, where they can use the surrounding seawater to cool and better control the temperature of the hard working GPUs inside. But it turns out just plopping something into the ocean isn't always a foolproof plan for reducing its environmental impact.This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED writers Paresh Dave and Reece Rogers join the show to talk about their reporting on undersea data centers and how the race to power AI systems is taking its toll on the environment.Show Notes:Read Paresh and Reece's story about the plan to put an underwater data center in the San Francisco Bay. Read Reece's stories about how this is AI's hyper-consumption era and how to wade through all the AI hype. Read Lauren's story about the social network inhabited only by bots. Read Karen Hao's story in The Atlantic about how companies like Microsoft are taking water from the desert to use for cooling down AI data centers. Here's the Black Cat substack article about the character Harper from Industry. Follow all of WIRED's AI and climate coverage.Recommendations:Paresh recommends checking out cookbooks from your local library. Reece recommends the soundtrack of the first Twilight movie for all your Fall feels. Lauren recommends the HBO show Industry. Mike recommends Anna Weiner's profile of bicycle designer Grant Peterson in The New Yorker.Reece Rogers can be found on social media @thiccreese. Paresh Dave is @peard33. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight@heads.social. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.Share your thoughts on WIRED Gadget Lab. As a token of our appreciation, you will be eligible to enter a prize drawing up to $1,000 after you complete the survey.https://selfserve.decipherinc.com/survey/selfserve/222b/76152?pin=1&uBRANDLINK=7&uCHANNELLINK=2

One surefire way to go viral on Threads—the Meta-owned Instagram-spinoff social network with more than 200 million users—is to ask a ridiculous question that enrages your followers so much, they just have to chime in to answer you, mock you, or berate you. When it first launched last summer, Threads was seen as a blatant Twitter clone. At the time, that was an appealing attribute, as users fleeing the platform now known as X were looking for a new place to gather. Threads turned out to be a safe haven from the trolling and engagement bait on X, Reddit, and Facebook, but only for a while. Threads, like any for-profit social media site, was not able to keep those jokers and bad actors at bay. In its effort to boost engagement on the platform, Threads began prioritizing posts with the most replies and comments—which also happen to be the posts that stirred up the most drama and pissed everyone off.This week on Gadget Lab, we chat with Business Insider senior correspondent Katie Notopoulos about her personal experiment with rage bait immersion on Threads. We also ask whether social media sites are making the right decision by catering to their most furious users.Show Notes:Read Katie's story about ragebait on Threads. Read Lauren's story about the new app SocialAI, where the only human is you, and everyone else is a bot.Recommendations:Katie recommends the reality show The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives on Hulu. Mike recommends the HBO show Industry. Lauren recommends the Apple TV+ show Slow Horses.Katie Notopolous can be found on Threads @katienotopoulos. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight@heads.social. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.Share your thoughts on WIRED Gadget Lab. As a token of our appreciation, you will be eligible to enter a prize drawing up to $1,000 after you complete the survey.https://selfserve.decipherinc.com/survey/selfserve/222b/76152?pin=1&uBRANDLINK=7&uCHANNELLINK=2

On Monday of this week, Apple held one of its splashy media events. This one was used to show off its next round of iPhones, AirPods, and Apple Watches. These are three of its biggest products, and all of the design tweaks feel very familiar to the current Apple universe. But Apple has also trotted out some new tricks, like sleep apnea detection in the Apple Watch and a new feature that instantly turns a pair of AirPods Pro into hearing aids. And of course, the company is also very keen to get consumers hyped up about the iPhone's new Apple Intelligence features—even if those flashy AI tricks won't start becoming available until next month.This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED product reviews editors Adrienne So and Julian Chokkattu join us after Apple's "Glowtime" event to go over all the big news from Cupertino.Show Notes:Our roundup of everything Apple announced this week. Read Julian's WIRED stories about how the iPhone 16 is incorporating AI and which iPhone 16 model is right for you. Dive into Lauren's story about whether Apple's AI promises will actually equate to more iPhone sales. Read Chistopher Null's story about how AirPods Pro could disrupt the hearing aid industry. Follow all WIRED's Apple coverage.Recommendations:Adrienne recommends the book Status and Culture by W. David Marx. Julian recommends the Dev Patel action movie Monkey Man. Lauren recommends that you recommend a good chair to help her back pain. Mike recommends Manning Fireworks, the new album by musician MJ Lenderman.Adrienne So can be found on Threads @adso_sheehan. Julian Chokkattu is @julianchokkattu. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight@heads.social. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.Share your thoughts on WIRED Gadget Lab. As a token of our appreciation, you will be eligible to enter a prize drawing up to $1,000 after you complete the survey.https://selfserve.decipherinc.com/survey/selfserve/222b/76152?pin=1&uBRANDLINK=7&uCHANNELLINK=2

Encrypted messaging is a godsend for mobile communications, whether you're just sending standard texts to your friends that you want kept private, or engaging in interactions that are better kept secret for safety reasons. Apps like Signal and Telegram offer users the ability to trade messages that can be read by only the sender and the receiver. Of course, people can also use that privacy as a way to conduct unsavory dealings without having to worry about their communications getting exposed.Encrypted messaging has been in the news for the past couple weeks, largely because of the arrest of Telegram CEO Pavel Durov, who is being accused by the French government of failing to comply with law enforcements' demands to help catch some people who are using the app for criminal activity. Durov's arrest also casts a light on the rising profile of Signal, a fully encrypted messaging app that's always taken a stance against the collection of its users' data.This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED security writer Andy Greenberg joins us to talk about how encrypted messaging works, what can go wrong, and how while Telegram and Signal may seem similar, the ways they operate are different—and might affect what makes them liable for what users share on its platforms.Show Notes:Read Andy's interview with Signal president Meredith Whittaker. Read Lily Hay Newman and Morgan Meeker's reporting on the arrest of Telegram's founder and its broader criminal investigations. Follow all of WIRED's coverage of Signal and Telegram.Recommendations:Andy recommends the memoir My Glorious Defeats: Hacktivist, Narcissist, Anonymous by Barrett Brown. Mike recommends taking a ride in a Waymo, just to get an idea of the future of driverless cars that is coming. Lauren recommends The Ringer's story about the new baseball team, the Oakland Ballers.Andy Greenberg can be found on social media @agreenberg.bsky.social. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight@heads.social. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Although we paused on publishing narrated versions of WIRED articles in this feed, you will still hear the latest in tech from the WIRED team.On WIRED's Gadget Lab, you'll find hosts Lauren Goode and Michael Calore tackling the biggest questions in the world of tech with knowledgeable WIRED reporters.You can expect the best of WIRED's breaking news and tech analysis right here in this feed.Listen to WIRED's Gadget Lab: https://listen.wired.com/YDai_aaZ

Although we paused on publishing narrated versions of WIRED articles in this feed, you will still hear the latest in tech from the WIRED team.On WIRED's Gadget Lab, you'll find hosts Lauren Goode and Michael Calore tackling the biggest questions in the world of tech with knowledgeable WIRED reporters.You can expect the best of WIRED's breaking news and tech analysis right here in this feed.Listen to WIRED's Gadget Lab: https://listen.wired.com/YDai_aaZ

People everywhere are hot for heat pumps. These electric appliances—which perform the same heating and cooling tasks as traditional HVAC systems, just much more efficiently—have been outselling gas furnaces over the past couple of years. Their proliferation seems to be pointing more towards an energy-conscious electric future in people's homes. And, four months ago, nine states in the US signed a memorandum of understanding that says that heat pumps should make up at least 65 percent of residential heating, air conditioning, and water-heating shipments by 2030.But, what exactly is a heat pump? How does it work? How much does it cost to replace your furnace with one, and how much money does making the switch actually save you in the long run? Let's also consider the same question we're asking about AI: how much will this change or displace existing jobs for the people who have been trained to install and service traditional HVAC systems?Former WIRED staff writer Matt Simon is our in-house heat pump expert. He joins us this week to tell us everything we need to know about these appliances he calls “climate superheroes.”This episode originally aired on May 23, 2024. Read the transcript.Show Notes:Read all of our heat pump coverage. Don't miss Matt's story about the heat pump technician shortage. Matt also took a look at the in-window heat pumps now hitting the market that look and operate like in-window AC units. WIRED's Rhett Alain digs into the physics of heat pumps.Recommendations:Matt recommends the book Drunk: How We Sipped, Danced, and Stumbled Our Way to Civilization by Edward Slingerland. Mike recommends the book Rebel Girl: My Life as a Feminist Punk by Kathleen Hanna. Lauren recommends taking a staycation.Matt Simon can be found on social media @mrmattsimon. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Electric Vehicles are having a real moment. People by and large prefer EVs because they're greener, quieter, and often more fun to drive than gas cars. But one sticking point in the EV revolution is charging. There are more charging stations now than there have ever been, but it's still not enough. And how those stations are distributed can make driving long distances in an EV feel like a bit of a gamble.This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED staff writer Aarian Marshall joins the show to talk about the state of EV charging, the feelings of “charging anxiety,” and whether people really need to worry all that much about those EV battery fires in the news.Show Notes:Read Aarian's story on the current state of EV charging prices. Aarian writes for WIRED about all things electric vehicle and transportation related.Recommendations:Aarian recommends three different episodes of PJ Vogt's Search Engine podcast featuring Ezra Klein as a guest. Mike recommends Agnes Varda's film The Gleaners and I from the year 2000. Lauren is out this week.Aarian Marshall can be found on social media @AarianMarshall. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

At a splashy media event this week at its headquarters in Mountain View, California, Google announced four new Pixel phones. But the really important stuff unveiled at the Made By Google event wasn't the hardware itself, but rather all of the generative AI tools packed into the devices. Most notable are some AI-powered camera features that allow Pixel owners to easily add themselves to a group shot after they've taken the photo, or to alter any scene entirely by changing night to day and adding objects that were never really there. It's an exploration of our limits—how convincingly technology can bring alternate realities to life, and how much of the computer-generated scenery we can tolerate.This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED senior reviews editor Julian Chokkattu joins the show to talk about Google's fancy new photo tricks. We also talk about Gemini Live, the latest iteration of the company's AI-powered voice chatbot. Finally, we ask the unaskable: Is Google Assistant finally dead, or just banished to Google's attic?Show Notes:Read more about all the new updates from the Made By Google event, including Google's Pixel camera updates. Learn how the company is using AI to reshape reality. There are some potentially life-saving new features on the Pixel Watch 3. Also read Reece Rogers' WIRED story about ChatGPT's advanced voice mode and Jia Tolentino's New Yorker story about tweens and Sephora.Recommendations:Julian recommends folding flip phones. Lauren recommends Colorscience Sunforgettable Total Protection Face Shield Flex SPF 50 sunscreen lotion. Mike recommends the audiobook version of All Fours by Miranda July. (You can listen to it in Spotify Premium.)Julian Chokkattu can be found on social media @JulianChokkattu. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

There has been a no wilder time than the present to build a company around artificial intelligence. The server bills are astronomical, for one. Also the market for talent is red hot, and you'll end up paying through the nose for good people. Even if you do get funding, staff up, get the product off the ground, and start making headway in a crowded field, there's the specter of Big Tech looming overhead. The hypercarnivorous raptors of Silicon Valley—Google, Apple, Amazon, and Meta—will fix their steely eyes on the plump prey of your best employees and your intellectual property.But they can't just buy you. Not anymore; outright acquisitions could draw the attention of regulators in the US and Europe, where governments are ramping up their antitrust efforts. Now instead of gobbling you up, a big tech company will license your tech and bring your top talent into their offices to collaborate with their employees. This maneuver—not an acquisition, more like an acquihire with some partnerships included—is something we've seen a few times in recent months. And we can expect more.This week, we welcome WIRED senior writer Paresh Dave back onto the show to discuss the current trend of partnerships between small AI companies and the tech giants. We also talk about how regulators are really cracking down on Google in particular.Show Notes:Read about the US court ruling that found Google engaged in monopolistic practices to increase its search engine's dominance. Read more about Character AI, Meta, and customizable chatbots. Read all of WIRED's antitrust coverage.Recommendations:Paresh recommends playing games on Netflix, like Triviaverse. Mike recommends the new documentary Mountain Queen: The Summits of Lhakpa Sherpa, which is also on Netflix. Lauren recommends “Inside the Secret Negotiations to Free Evan Gershkovich” from The Wall Street Journal.Paresh Dave can be found on social media @peard33. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

If the idea of going on a date makes you anxious, and all you'd really rather do with your evening is stay home and play video games, well, have we got the app for you. Date Like Goblins, a new dating platform that debuted on Kickstarter this week and will launch later this year, invites you to go on dates that take place entirely inside your favorite video games. You play a few rounds of Fortnite or Final Fantasy with your date, while voice-chatting and getting to know each other. It's cute!Date Like Goblins is one of many niche, interest-specific dating platforms. There are apps for farmers, Christians, jamband fans, rope bunnies—whatever you're into. These smaller, more tailored communities can be seen as an antidote to fatigue that's caused by the over-monetized and alienating experience of the big dating apps like Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge. This week, we're joined by WIRED staff writer Amanda Hoover to talk about Date Like Goblins and the other apps that have learned the cheat code for online romance.Show Notes:Read Amanda's story about Date Like Goblins. Read Lauren Goode on “Date Me” docs. Read Jason Parham on Boomers on the apps. Read all of our dating coverage.Recommendations:Amanda recommends making butter coconut bars for your next summer potluck. Lauren recommends the recent episode of The Daily from The New York Times with Taffy Brodesser-Akner telling the story about her new book. Michael recommends Trickster: The Many Lives of Carlos Castaneda, a podcast about the wild, shadowy history of the famous author and counterculture figurehead.Amanda Hoover can be found on social media @byamandahoover. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

If you haven't heard of it before, you're about to become intimately familiar with the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation. This system of currents—which brings water up the Atlantic from the southern tip of South America, through the tropics, and all the way to the coast of Iceland before looping back down south—plays a key role in keeping our planet's climate stable. It keeps northern European winters relatively mild, it provides nutrients to ocean life, and it brings much-needed rain to agricultural systems in equatorial zones.Researchers who study the AMOC say this system is showing signs of instability, and it could shut down entirely—and soon. If the current slows down or stops, it would potentially kick off an ecological disaster of epic proportions. Deep cold spells, crushed food systems, entire regions in drought. This week, we bring WIRED features editor Sandra Upson onto the show to talk about the AMOC, the research that's being done on it, and what life would be like on Earth if the current reaches its tipping point. Buckle up. Show Notes:Read “How Soon Will the Atlantic Ocean Break? Two Sibling Scientists Tried to Answer That—and Shook the World,” Sandra Upson's WIRED feature on the researchers who are studying the AMOC and who have estimated the current could collapse in the next 30 years or so. Read our previous coverage of the AMOC research that kicked off the present debate about when it could reach the tipping point.Recommendations:Sandra recommends watching trashy reality shows in a language you're trying to learn as an informal and entertaining study aid. Mike recommends embracing Brat Summer—IYKYK. Lauren recommends the book The Wave by Susan Casey, which is about the science and joy and terror of big waves.Sandra Upson can be found on social media @sandraupson. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Voice assistants have become a constant presence in our lives. Maybe you talk to Alexa or Gemini or Siri to ask a question or to perform a task. Maybe you have to do a little back and forth with a voice bot whenever you call your pharmacy, or when you book a service appointment at your car dealership. You may even get frustrated and start pleading with the robot on the other end of the line to connect you with a real human.That's the catch, though: These voice bots are starting to sound a lot more like actual humans, with emotions in their voice, little ticks and giggles in between phrases, and the occasional flirty aside. Today's voice-powered chatbots are blurring the lines between what's real and what's not, which prompts a complicated ethical question: Can you trust a bot that insists it's actually human?This week, Lauren Goode tells us about her recent news story on a bot that was easily tricked into lying and saying it was a human. And WIRED senior writer Paresh Dave tells us how AI watchdogs and government regulators are trying to prevent natural-sounding chatbots from misrepresenting themselves.Show Notes:Read more about the Bland AI chatbot, which lied and said it was human. Read Will Kight's story about researchers' warnings of the manipulative power of emotionally expressive chatbots.Recommendations:Lauren recommends The Bee Sting by Paul Murray. (Again.) Paresh recommends subscribing to your great local journalism newsletter or Substack to stay informed on important local issues. Mike recommends Winter Journal, a memoir by Paul Auster.Paresh Dave can be found on social media @peard33. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Ozempic has been hailed as a miracle drug. It is the most well known of the GLP-1 medications, a class of drugs that can help regulate appetite, digestion, and blood sugar—and help those suffering from obesity or diabetes lose weight. Naturally, these drugs are very much in demand. But now there is a shortage of Ozempic and other GLP-1s, which has led to a swell of clones that purport to offer the same benefits and the same key ingredient, semaglutide, at lower prices. These clone drugs are easy to procure from telehealth providers, even if a buyer needs to lie about themselves a little bit to buy them.In this brave new weight-loss world, we're still coming to grips with how these drugs fit into our society. Part of that journey is the continued study about how GLP-1 drugs work—much of how they affect us is still unknown—and the continued debate about how much we should regulate and control their use.This week on Gadget Lab, we talk with WIRED writers Kate Knibbs and Emily Mullin about how GLP-1 medications like Ozempic work and what happens when they don't. We also talk about the current drug shortage and how that may get resolved.Show Notes:Read Kate's story about buying cloned Ozempic online. Read Emily's story about how Ozempic doesn't work for everyone. Read all the stories in WIRED's The Age of Ozempic series.Recommendations:Emily recommends staying cool this summer however you can. Kate recommends the HBO series John Adams, starring Paul Giamatti. Mike recommends buying a used 35-mm film camera and shooting some rolls to flex your creativity.Kate Knibbs can be found on social media @Knibbs. Emily Mullin is @emilylmullin. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Back in March, the US Environmental Protection Agency finalized a long in the works rule requiring automakers here to dramatically increase the number of battery-powered vehicles they're putting on the roads. The government has mandated that by 2032, more than half of new cars sold must be electric. There are some caveats, namely that plug-in hybrid cars will fulfill the federal requirements for what a “battery-powered” vehicle is. This has led to a flood of hybrid cars hitting the market. This week, we talk about what this means for people who are considering buying a new car now, or in the next few years. We explain the differences between plug-in hybrids, full hybrids, and electrics, and we tell you what your options are if you live in an apartment without a convenient place to plug in your car while it's parked. We are joined this week by WIRED staff writer Aarian Marshall, who breaks down the facts, shatters the myths, and turns us all into hybrid car experts.This episode originally aired on April 2, 2024. Read the transcript.Show Notes:Read Aarian's story about the new US emissions rules. Also read her story about automakers struggling to hit their US sales targets for electric cars.Recommendations:Aarian recommends going to one of those baseball games where you also bring your dog. (They let you run the bases!) Mike recommends The New York Trilogy by novelist Paul Auster, who died this week at 77. Lauren recommends The Lights, the newest book of poetry and prose by Ben Lerner.Aarian Marshall can be found on social media @aarianmarshall. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Even if you've never taken a puff from a vape in your life, you know about Juul. At the company's peak in 2018, its e-cigarette was one of the most recognizable consumer devices on the planet, and Juul Labs was worth $38 billion. Just a few short years later, after being squeezed by government regulators and prohibition-minded anti-tobacco advocates, Juul's valuation plummeted and its market share vaporized.The story of Juul—and its thousands of imitators—is outlined in Backfired: The Vaping Wars, a new nine-part podcast from Prologue Projects. The show traces the history of e-cigarettes, nicotine vaporizers, and synthetic nicotine by following the paths of Juul and its thousands of competitors as the vape companies gain public acceptance, fight for market share, and butt heads with government agencies. It's a fascinating ride filled with new reporting, so even if you've read and listened to everything about Juul and vaping, you'll hear some shocking new information in this series.This week on Gadget Lab, we talk with Backfired's hosts, Arielle Pardes and Leon Neyfakh. Show Notes:Backfired is an Audible original, so go to audible.com/backfired to listen. Also check out Louise Matsakis' story about the next generation of cheap, illegal vapes coming from China.Recommendations:Arielle recommends Timeshifter's Jet Lag App. Leon recommends the Yoto Player for getting kids into podcasts. Lauren recommends The Bee Sting, by Paul Murray. Mike recommends Subpar Pool, a game by Holedown creator Martin Jonasson.Arielle Pardes can be found on social media @pardesoteric. Leon Neyfakh is @leoncrawl. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

Before Apple and Samsung took over our wrists, there was Fitbit. The fitness tracker was just about the coolest thing in Silicon Valley, and everyone in tech was wearing one — including Wired Magazine senior editor Michael Calore and senior writer Lauren Goode!Long before the pair started hosting the Wired Gadget Lab podcast, they were crushing their steps goal while reporting on the buzziest wearable on the market. Michael and Lauren join David to help trace the steps that Fitbit took to become one of the most enduring pioneers of the wearable world, walking 10,000 steps so that the Apple Watch could run...and answer calls...and text.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.