Podcast appearances and mentions of rachel denhollander

Text us your questions!After more than three years, Kristin Kobes Du Mez is back on the show to discuss her new short film For Our Daughters, which examines the connection between the culture of submission and sexual abuse within the evangelical church and the Christian nationalist effort to influence the 2024 presidential election. It tells harrowing stories of survival and coverup and puts a spotlight on the theological and ecclesial structures that facilitate abuse and wield enormous power in our society. Randy and Elliot chat with Kristin about the film, as well as what she's been up to with the explosion of Jesus and John Wayne since our last conversation.=====Join us at Theology Beer Camp 2024!Get your tickets here to join us in Denver Oct. 17-19. Use code PASTPHIL2024. Let us know if you sign up!=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Psalm 13:1-6//Taylor Fair“I used to go to church and pray, and then my best friend got sick and died… How can I believe in God when that happened?” My friend told me this in 7th grade, and it would be the first but not last time I would hear what I would later learn that theologians and philosophers call “the problem of evil”. Why does an all good and all powerful God permit evil and suffering?While God does not give us an answer to our “why” question, he does show us “how” to find meaning through suffering and experience that we are not alone. Join us as we learn how to lament our suffering with God through Psalm 13. SERMON NOTES (YouVersion): https://www.bible.com/events/49209495PRAYER REQUESTS:https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2546/responses/new24.02.18

Psalm 13:1-6; Mark 15:33-39 // Jonathan Neef“I used to go to church and pray, and then my best friend got sick and died… How can I believe in God when that happened?” My friend told me this in 7th grade, and it would be the first but not last time I would hear what I would later learn that theologians and philosophers call “the problem of evil”. Why does an all good and all powerful God permit evil and suffering?While God does not give us an answer to our “why” question, he does show us “how” to find meaning through suffering and experience that we are not alone. Join us as we learn how to lament our suffering with God through Psalm 13.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion):https://www.bible.com/events/49205737PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2553/responses/new24.02.11

Psalm 13:1-6; Mark 15:33-39 // Caleb Jenkins“I used to go to church and pray, and then my best friend got sick and died… How can I believe in God when that happened?” My friend told me this in 7th grade, and it would be the first but not last time I would hear what I would later learn that theologians and philosophers call “the problem of evil”. Why does an all good and all powerful God permit evil and suffering?While God does not give us an answer to our “why” question, he does show us “how” to find meaning through suffering and experience that we are not alone. Join us as we learn how to lament our suffering with God through Psalm 13.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion):https://www.bible.com/events/49205737PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2553/responses/new24.02.11

Dr. Lawrence Feingold, who tells us what St Paul says about the Jewish people, and Al looks at Rachel Denhollander's Christian witness after the stabbing of Larry Nassar. Why did so many Tik Tok users suddenly start claiming that Osama bin Laden's “Letter to America” made some good points? Who is Isaac Hecker and why is his cause for beatification advancing?

Dr. Lawrence Feingold, who tells us what St Paul says about the Jewish people, and Al looks at Rachel Denhollander's Christian witness after the stabbing of Larry Nassar. Why did so many Tik Tok users suddenly start claiming that Osama bin Laden's “Letter to America” made some good points? Who is Isaac Hecker and why is his cause for beatification advancing?

Guest Bios Show Transcript How did loving your enemies—a command of Jesus—suddenly become a sign that you're “woke”? And why is “owning the libs” now the answer to “What would Jesus do?”  On this edition of The Roys Report, bestselling author and journalist Tim Alberta joins host Julie Roys to explore a disturbing phenomenon in American evangelicalism. Though once evangelicals understood that the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of man were separate, now the two are being combined into an unholy mix. And sadly, for millions of conservative Christians, America is their kingdom—and proper adherence to their political ideology is their litmus test for Christian orthodoxy! On this podcast, you'll hear Julie's compelling conversation with Tim, exploring how evangelicals got into this mess—and if, and how, we can get ourselves out. Yet Tim doesn't speak as an outside critic passing judgment, but as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor.  Tim spent years sifting through the wreckage of American evangelicalism, interviewing pastors, evangelical/political activists, congregants, and scholars. The result is his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, which tells story after illuminating story of major players and institutions within the evangelical movement that have succumbed to political idolatry.  One example is Liberty University, founded in 1971 by Jerry Falwell Sr. Recent headlines have exposed how Senior's now-disgraced son, Jerry Falwell, Jr., made Liberty into a far-right, culture warring, money-making powerhouse. But is this mixing of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man a corruption of Senior's vision—or, is it the culmination of it? And what does it say that everyone—the administration, board, and Liberty supporters—were all fine with it, as long as the money was coming in?  Tim also shares stunning admissions he got during one-on-one interviews with major evangelical/political figures, like Robert Jeffress and Ralph Reed. In private, these men confessed that they know mixing political advocacy with the gospel is misleading and wrong. Yet, as Tim documents, these men keep doing it! Yet Tim also offers stories of hope—like his chapter on Rev. Dr. John Dickson, who teaches at the flagship evangelical school, Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill. In it, Tim explains why Dickson has become a missionary to America—and how Christians can lose the culture wars yet live joyfully and winsomely among unbelievers. Tim's book also includes a chapter on exposing abuse and corruption, featuring Rachel Denhollander's work and our work at The Roys Report. On the podcast, we discuss why our reporting is so important and why this chapter is Tim's mother's favorite! This is such an important podcast for Christians wanting to remain true to their calling to worship God first and foremost, rather than succumb to political idolatry.  Guests Tim Alberta Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal and National Review. He is the author of The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism and the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. He lives in southeast Michigan with his wife and three sons. Show Transcript SPEAKERS TIM ALBERTA, Julie Roys Julie Roys  00:04 How did loving your enemies, a command of Jesus, suddenly become a sign that you're woke? And why is owning the libs now the answer to what would Jesus do? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this podcast is New York Times bestselling author Tim Alberta, whose latest book explores what happened to American evangelicalism. Decades ago, Americans viewed evangelicalism favorably. In 1976, author and historian Gary Wills called evangelicalism, the major religious force in America, both in numbers and an impact. And leading evangelical thinkers claimed that evangelicalism could no longer be regarded as reactionary but was vigorously and sometimes creatively speaking to the needs of the contemporary world. Fast forward to today and evangelicalism has become synonymous with Donald Trump, a thrice married vulgar opportunist who said he doesn't need to repent or ask for forgiveness. A recent poll by Pew Research found that the only religious group that views evangelicals favorably are evangelicals. And as Tim Alberta notes in his book in 1991 90% of Americans identified as Christians, but today, only 63% do. What happened to this once vibrant movement? And can it be saved, or has it passed beyond the point of no return? Un his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory. Tim Alberta does a masterful job of exploring these questions, but he doesn't do it as an outside critic passing judgment. But as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor. I found Tim's book eye opening on many levels, and I'm so excited to share this interview with you. Julie Roys  01:47 But before I do, I want to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity, to check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys  02:51 Well, again, joining me is Tim Alberta, a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico. Tim also is the author of The New York Times best seller American Carnage on the Frontlines of the Republican Civil War, and the Rise of President Trump. And his latest book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, explores American evangelicals in an age of extremism. So, Tim, welcome. It is just such a pleasure to be with you again. TIM ALBERTA  03:16 Yes, Julie, it is. It's great to catch up with you and come sort of full circle from where we were a couple of years ago talking about all of this. Julie Roys  03:24 That's right. We spent a couple of well, more than a couple of hours. I think it was supposed to be like maybe an hour and a half, and we got so into our discussion. I think we closed down one coffee shop and went to another. TIM ALBERTA  03:35 We did. I hijacked your whole day. Julie Roys  03:38 Oh, it was fantastic. And so, encouraging to me, but always fun to talk to a fellow journalist with similar convictions. And I was excited about this book when we had our discussion. I'm so honored, I have to say, you know, to get the galley of the book, and I figured because we spent so much time that I'd be in it, but you know, just what you wrote, and the way that you captured some things just so honored to be featured in a chapter with Rachel den Hollander. So, thank you so much for that. I just really appreciate it. TIM ALBERTA  04:07 I should tell you that is my mother's favorite chapter of the book. Oh, for what it's worth, because she's big into strong feminine Christian leadership. And so, she was particularly smitten with you and with Rachel. So, I thought you should know that. Julie Roys  04:21 Oh, wow. Well, I'm honored. I really am. And I should mention that we are offering your book as a premium to anybody who gives $50 or more to The Roys Report in this month. Again, this is just a way that you're able to support the work that we do, but also get this fantastic book. Just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE if you're able to help us out and continue the work that we do, and also get what could be a great Christmas present for somebody or for yourself. So anyway, encourage you to do that. Well, Tim, as I mentioned in the open, you're not writing this book as sort of an outsider critiquing evangelicalism. You grew up evangelical, your dad was an evangelical pastor. And oddly enough, it was at your dad's funeral in 2019, that something sort of awakened you to the severity of what's happening right now within evangelicalism. Tell us a bit about that story. TIM ALBERTA  05:17 Yeah, so my dad, Reverend Richard Alberta, was an amazing, amazing guy. We were very close. And he had a pretty crazy come to Jesus story himself where he was actually kind of a hotshot New York finance guy. And my mom was kind of a hotshot, young journalist with ABC Radio. They lived in New York and my dad, despite having all of this worldly material success, just felt this emptiness. And he was an atheist. He grew up in an unbelieving home. And he, one day stumbled into this church in the Hudson Valley, and heard the gospel and he gave his life to Christ. And it was already a pretty dramatic conversion because he became completely unrecognizable to people around him, including my mom, who was not yet a Christian. Everybody who knew him just thought he was sort of losing it. Suddenly, he's waking up at four in the morning to read his Bible and meditate in prayer for hours. And they're all like, what is this guy doing? And then pretty soon after that, he feels the Lord calling him to ministry. And now they all think he's like certifiable, right? You know, but he follows the Lord's calling. And, you know, he and my mom who became a Christian, they sell all the possessions so he can go to seminary, and they basically they give up this pretty lavish lifestyle they'd had. And for the next like, 20 years, they just work in small churches and live on food stamps and serve the Lord that way. And then when I come along, some years later, we eventually settle in Brighton, which is a suburb of Detroit. And my dad builds this kind of small startup church there into kind of a mega church. And that was my home. It was my community. It was my whole life, really. My mom was on the staff there at the church as well. It was called Cornerstone Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I was raised physically, literally, inside of that church. TIM ALBERTA  07:11 And so, my dad dies a few years back. And when I came back to the church for the funeral, because of the work I've done in politics, and because I had just recently written this book about Trumpism and his takeover of the Republican Party, I was kind of in the crosshairs of right-wing media at that time, because of the book. And so, at the funeral or at the wake during the visitation, I had a bunch of people at the church kind of confronting me and wanting to argue about politics and about Trump and asking me if I was still a Christian and how I could be criticizing him this way. And it was pretty ugly. And as you said, sort of a wakeup call. Julie Roys  07:52 Yeah. And it is something isn't it when you don't support these people that certain evangelicalism believe you have to your, you know, I've got people praying for my salvation, because I've taken on John MacArthur, you know, It's craziness. But there is this tribalism now, within evangelicalism, and it's probably at its very worst when it comes to former President Trump and what he typified. It's interesting to me, you know, as I look at the evangelical movement, you know, I was a card-carrying conservative right? Before Trump came along, and then something really happened. And I feel like I was going back and reading a little bit of Chuck Colson's, Kingdoms in Conflict. Do you remember that book? TIM ALBERTA  08:34 I do. Yeah. Julie Roys  08:35 I mean, he was pretty even handed. I mean, he's very clear in there that being in the kingdom of heaven means it's not about ruling others, it's about being under God's rule. And yet something has tripped, where we're not saying that anymore. We're really become about this whole Dominionism. And he talks about the cultural mandate and things like that, but it's from a very, very different perspective. So here we are dealing with all of this Christian nationalism, and according to your book, a lot of this began, and it's funny because now, Lynchburg Virginia has become synonymous with the Falwell's and with Liberty University. But I've got to say, growing up in the 80s, you know, I knew about the Moral Majority, and some of that, but it just wasn't that big to me. And yet it has grown and grown, and I guess I wasn't even aware of the influence it had. But talk about how a lot of this has its roots really there, in Lynchburg, Virginia, and with what Jerry Falwell Senior. started in, like the late 70s, early 80s. TIM ALBERTA  09:42 Sure, in the context of the American church experience, it is Lynchburg, Virginia. It is the mid-1970s. And it is Jerry Falwell Senior who was a brilliant businessman who, you know, this guy could sell anyone on anything, and he was kind of a master entrepreneur, also a master manipulator. And what Falwell Senior. effectively did, he had already built out Thomas Road Baptist Church into a massive congregation. And then he had tapped into the relatively new medium of television to broadcast his sermons around the country. At one point, he became the single most telecasted program in the entire country. And so, he's reaching millions of people and he's raising a lot of money. This is pretty cutting-edge stuff at the time, but he's building out a mailing list with like more than 10 million names on it, and they are raking in money. So, then he already has his church. But Falwell, Senior is really almost the early archetype of the Christian nationalist. He believes that sort of fighting for God and fighting for America is one in the same and that if America falls, then almost God's kingdom on earth will fall. And so he recognizes that he needs something more than a church; that he needs kind of a cultural stronghold. So, he does two things. First, he takes this little Baptist College Lynchburg Baptist College, and at the time of the bicentennial in 1976, he rebrands it to Liberty University, and he changes the colors from green and gold to red, white, and blue. And basically, they do this whole patriotic rebranding exercise, which is aimed at tapping into not only patriotism in the church, but also tapping into the percolating low simmering at the time, fear in the church and grievance in the church. This sense that, you know, abortion is now legal. Pornography is prevalent, the drug culture is out of control. Prayer is banned in public schools. Secularism is on the march and they're coming for us like they are coming for Christianity in America. And so, Jerry Falwell turns Liberty University into this cause, and then piggybacks onto that with this new organization, The Moral Majority. So suddenly, he's got these three cogs. And he builds out this machine, Falwell Senior does, and it is incredibly effective. They mobilize 10s of millions of voters and sort of bring them under this banner of not just, you know, Christianity, not just following Jesus, but a very particular type of Christianity, a sort of subculture of a subculture. And in many ways, those seeds planted by Falwell 50 years ago, we are harvesting them now. And what we are dealing with, you know, the fracturing of the modern evangelical movement, I think you can trace it directly back to that period. Julie Roys  12:36 It's so interesting, because I think when you talk about Jerry Falwell Senior, and I've talked to a lot of people from Liberty, I've done a lot of reporting about Liberty. And a lot of folks look very wistfully back to the early days, and these are good people, you know, I've talked extensively to them. They're really good people, sincere believers. They look at what's happened to Liberty, and they're like, this isn't Senior. Like Senior loved the Lord and he really was sincere in his walk with the Lord and Junior just was like, we don't know how Junior happened, right? I mean, that's how they often talk about it. I'm going to have you come back to that, because I think what you present is a very, very different picture and honestly, one that I've begun to suspect myself. But let's talk about what happens with you know, Senior dies pretty abruptly right of a heart attack. And then Jerry Falwell, Junior, who is the lawyer, right? He takes over not Jonathan Falwell, who's the pastor, much more of the spiritual leader, but Jerry Falwell, Junior takes over. Very clearly, I'm not a spiritual leader. I mean, he really assued that whole entire title. But when he takes over, despite all the success that his dad had, the school was on the brink of bankruptcy at this point, right? And he kind of turns it around. 13:57 So, Falwell, Junior. is the yes, the UVA trained lawyer, businessman, real estate developer, who is a smart guy. He knows business. And he had really kept the church and organized religion at arm's length. His younger brother Jonathan was the preacher in the family. But Jerry Junior, he'd gone to Liberty for his undergraduate studies. And he says that, you know, he believes in the teachings of Jesus but rejects a lot of the other stuff that comes with it, including Liberty itself. Jerry Junior never wanted to really be a part of Liberty. And suddenly as he's working in the private sector, the school is about to go under. Jerry Senior has really badly mismanaged the finances and he tells his son that basically the school is on the brink of insolvency. And so, Jerry Junior kind of reluctantly comes aboard and he helps to stabilize everything, and he makes a lot of drastic cuts to the different programs and kind of rejiggers the whole balance sheet operation. And he saves Liberty in a lot of ways that, you know, his father gave him credit for that. And it's interesting though, Julie, that when Jerry Falwell senior dies, it's not an accident that Jerry Junior. takes over. That was the plan of succession. It's notable that here is Jerry Falwell senior, who is both businessman and culture warrior, but also a preacher. And he's got these two sons that exemplify one of each, right? He's got the son who's a preacher. And he's got the other son who's the kind of culture warrior businessman. And he appoints the latter to take over Liberty after he's gone. And that in and of itself, I think, speaks volumes. And then more to the point, Jerry Junior, as you said, he comes in and he tells anybody who will listen, look, I'm not a religious leader, I'm not here charged with the spiritual well-being of this school. I'm here to turn us into a powerhouse, I'm here to turn us into a highly profitable, highly influential organization that can sort of, you know, push back against the forces of secularism in the left in this country. But he doesn't, to his credit, I suppose. Falwell Junior, he doesn't pretend that he's something that he's not. And the irony of it all, Julie is that everybody was fine with it. They were fine with it. Right? They were, as you know, when the money was coming in, and the buildings were going up at a rapid clip, and the endowment was bulging, everybody was fine with it. Because he's Jerry Senior's namesake, and he's a Falwell, and the school is doing great. Clearly God is blessing this project. So, what's not to like? Julie Roys  16:47 Well, and you say everyone was fine with it. And it's true on a public face, everyone was fine with it. I will say I started hearing from a lot of people who weren't fine with it from I mean, obviously the Jane DOE's and now we know about who were victims of sexual assault, and their cases got just horribly mismanaged. In fact, not even reported. And you know, now we have the Department of Education looking into how badly Liberty bungled these cases and violated Title Nine mandates, and they could face like a 30 some million dollar fine, which could be one of the largest ever. So, this was percolating under the surface, but nobody knew about it at the time. And I also talked to a lot of professors who were like, the way this place is being run is abysmal. There's nothing Christian about it. The way the administration handles things, there's nothing Christian about it. And we know too, from some of the people you interviewed, it was less like a religious institution and more like a mafia like a mob boss. Like Jerry turned into I think Jerry is very, he's very likable when you meet him. I mean, obviously very socially gifted, even though he's an introvert. He seems like this kind of your good old boy that, you know, everybody likes. But he began to become very controlling, and lock that place down where Jerry ruled with really an iron fist. And by the time some of the stuff started coming out about him, that place I mean, am I right, that it was a lot less like a Christian institution a lot more like the organized crime syndicate? TIM ALBERTA  18:24 Yeah, well, and listen like this is so Julie. It's funny, because obviously, you and I are in the same line of work. We're coming at this from pretty similar worldviews, and we're having similar conversations, with some of the same people. And you're exactly right when they're using the term family business. You know, Liberty is a family business. They're not just talking about like the Falwell family. There's, you know, the implication there is like very clearly that there is almost a mafioso-esque quality to, you don't cross the Falwell's, the power is concentrated in a few hands here. If you get a seat at the table, you are just lucky to be there and you nod and you know, at one point, I think I make sort of an offhand smart aleck comparison to like the North Korean military where, you know, you stand and salute the dear leader and don't dare step out of line. And of course, that's tragic on a number of levels, one of them being that Liberty has been filled over the years with really good and godly students and good and godly professors who are there for the right reasons. Some of these professors who started to really see the rot from the inside., they chose to stick around because on the one hand, they could see the success around them. The kind of observable material success that you know that the campus is absolutely stunning. Maybe God is doing something really marvelous here and I just have to kind of see my way through this part of it. But I also think that there's a level of devotion, and a feeling for some of these people that they wanted to help right the ship, that they wanted to be a part of the solution. And obviously, those are some of the characters I talk to in the book who now have finally gotten to a breaking point where they say, you know what? I just can't do it anymore. And not only can I not do it anymore, but the world needs to know, the whistle needs to be blown here that like this is not okay. Julie Roys  20:21 What does it say about evangelicalism, Tim, that when the money was coming in, and the money still is coming in, that everybody was okay with how godless this place was? And anybody that was in administration knew and saw it. The Board, who it's astounding to me that when Jerry Falwell Junior, got embroiled in this big sex scandal, and he gets fired, that Jerry Prevo takes over. And we think that that is a change of the guard. This was the man who was the chairman of the board the whole time that Jerry was doing all of this stuff. It's shocking to me, but yet I see it so much in so many different Christian organizations. And so, what is it about us that we're okay with these things, with really what is just absolute rampant hypocrisy? TIM ALBERTA  21:15 I'm afraid that in many ways, we're actually worse than some of those secular institutions. Because of this idea of the prosperity gospel, it's almost become like this proper noun. And so, people feel like well, those are those people are crazy. I'm not one of them, I'm not a part of that, right? But the idea inherent to the prosperity gospel, right is that, well, if you give to the Lord, and if you serve the Lord, if you follow the Lord, then you will be blessed. But that is so conveniently and so easily reverse engineered by a lot of Christians, either at a conscious or at a subconscious level, where when you see any sort of material success around you, you then say, well, clearly, I'm blessed. Clearly, the Lord is blessing this project. And that creates a kind of a permission structure, I think, for a lot of us to then turn a blind eye to things that are very obviously wrong, or kind of downplay things that you otherwise would never downplay. And whether that's an individual church congregation, whether that's a big college campus, whether it's the President of the United States, this can manifest in a lot of different ways. It's so much based on that kind of material thinking that I think we are particularly vulnerable, particularly susceptible to it here in the American church. I think the saddest part about it is that many of us just don't see it, or maybe don't want to see it. I don't know. Julie Roys  22:44 Your book has a stunning quote, stunning quote by a former professor, Dr. Aaron Warner. And he says, and I quote, Jerry, Senior, was always a bit of a scoundrel, and Jerry Junior, perfected the art of using fear and hatred as a growth strategy. Christianity happens to be the thing that they used to build a multibillion-dollar institution. It could have been anything else. It could have been moonshine, but they chose Christianity. And it's gained them a lot of power and a lot of money; the two things these people truly worship. You talked to a lot of people, interviewed a lot of people at Liberty. Is that characterization fair? Or do you think it's a little too harsh? TIM ALBERTA  23:23 It's harsh, that's for sure. It might contain some traces of hyperbole. But I will say this, Aaron Werner is another guy who knows that institution very well. Went there as an undergraduate, has deep longstanding ties to Liberty And the stories he tells from the inside are stunning. One of the other quotes, actually, I thought it might be the one that you're going to read because it kind of runs right along in parallel to that one is from a current professor. Now, at the time of this recording, he's a current professor. My sense is that when the book releases and when this gets back to the administration that he could be dismissed and he's expecting that that will happen. But his name is Nick Olsen, and he's an English professor, very popular English professor there. Brilliant, godly young guy. And he's a legacy at Liberty. His dad was one of the first students at Liberty and a contemporary of Falwell Senior. And Nick has sort of agonized in recent years with this inheritance at Liberty and everything that he's seen and struggled with there. And he says to me, this is not quite verbatim, but he says this to me in the final chapter of the book, he says, Jerry Junior, thought that he was fulfilling his father's vision by assuing spiritual stuff and by building out this massive multibillion dollar like culture warring Republican institution. And he says, and it is heartbreaking, because that's exactly what he's done, and he did fulfill Jerry Senior's vision. And I think that piece of it, Julie is not hyperbole. I think that when you spend enough time digging through the archives and talking to people who were there in the room where it happened, so to speak, it becomes pretty self-evident. And by the way, you know, you mentioned earlier that there are people who will say, Yeah, but you know, Jerry Senior, he really loved the Lord. Yeah, well, these things aren't mutually exclusive. I mean, I'm not suggesting that he didn't love the Lord. But I'm suggesting that like many people who love the Lord, he got his priorities out of whack. And by the way, we are all susceptible to this. But it's very hard to evaluate the history of Liberty University, the decisions made there, the structure of the place and the personnel and how they've treated people and what the benchmarks have been. It's very hard to assess all of that and reach any other conclusion than the one that Nick Olsen reaches at the end of the book. Julie Roys  25:41 And yet Liberty continues to be the largest Christian university in the country. It still has this dominance, there's still a lot of people that I know sending their kids there. And it's heartbreaking to me. I mean, I just wonder at what point do we say enough, and we stand up to this? And I'm glad that people are starting to speak out. But sometimes I wonder if it's too little too late, when we have just these juggernaut organizations and it really has been a marrying of two kingdoms that should be in conflict, and we're trying to say that they can be married together the kingdom of this world, the kingdom, the political realm, and the kingdom of Christ. And Jesus never became a political leader. It's stunning to me some of these quotes that are in your book, that are just like you expect a lightning to fall out of the sky, the way that scripture and Jesus are being misrepresented. It's just so awful. Julie Roys  26:37 In your first section, though, I have to say there's always some redeeming thing in each section, which I'm like, Thank You, Lord. It's like a palate cleanser in a lot of just awful stuff. But you have this beautiful chapter. And it's on a guy, John Dixon, who I actually got to know in my reporting on Ravi Zacharias, because John used to be a speaker for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. And he was one of those who, you know, pretty early in the game as things were starting to come out, recognized that there were some lies being told by the institution he had been a part of, and he quickly made a break, and he boldly took a stand. I mean, I really respected him for that, that he didn't seem to have this Oh, fear of, if I say something, what's going to happen to me? I mean, he just said what was right, and what was what was true. And now he's at Wheaton College, which is right in my backyard. And what I love is that he's so joyfully on the losing team. You know, we've got all of these people, all these Christians out there telling us we have to be on the winning team, we got to take America back. And here's John Dixon saying, No, we're on the losing team right now. I mean, eventually, when Christ comes back, we'll be you know, he will set things right, and we'll be on the winning team. But for now, we're kind of on the losing team. And it's okay, people. So, talk about John and what we can learn from him and his example, because again, he's from Australia, which is probably about 10 or 15 years ahead of us in sort of this post Christian era that, you know, is beginning to happen here as well. Julie Roys  28:16 And that is so tough for us. I mean, it's not tough for Chinese Christians to get this, right? I mean they get it right away. Because to be a believer means you have to get rid of everything, you can't hold on to anything, you're gonna lose all your power, all your position. But I think we've been, actually it's the curse of being prosperous. And being in a country where Christians have had the majority and where it actually was a plus, probably for my parents to be believers. I think it won't be for my children. But maybe that'll be a good thing. And maybe that's precisely what the church needs. We already think we're being persecuted, which is funny. We really aren't. But we may see it. And right now, I think most of the persecution we're getting is because of what you said that we're not because we're so holy, but because we're actually worse than the world in so many different ways. And we deserve it. TIM ALBERTA  28:16 John is really one of my favorite people I've met in all of the journeys that I was on, and one of my favorite characters in the book for exactly the reasons that you mentioned there. And the fact that he is not an American is, I think, a big part of his perspective, right? But I think also, there's something deeper embedded in the American psyche, about winning, about the need to dominate. I have a funny quote somewhere else in the book from somebody who had spent years living and studying and teaching in Canada, who talks about how Canadians just want fourth place, and then when they get the bronze, they're thrilled. And in America, if you don't get the gold, you're a total loser, right? And so, there's something, you know, about the American Christian experience that's so different. And so, John, one of my favorite scenes in all of this reporting that I did was, we're sitting in the cafeteria there at Wheaton College, surrounded by the flags of the world all around us in the cafeteria. And I say, Why did you come here? Like, really? Why did you come here? And he says, like, this is my mission field now, like the US is my mission field because of this, this stuff. Everything you and I are discussing right now. He said this stuff is like so toxic and so unhealthy. And the church is caught in this terrible pattern. That, by the way, is not new. Right? You go back to Constantine, there has been this obsession with worldly power this inclination to merge two kingdoms into one. So, what we're living through here is not new, in a lot of ways. And I think John is so brilliant in kind of illuminating the appropriate Christian perspective here, which is to say that if you care so much about winning and losing, then the good news is you've already won, right? The tomb is empty, Jesus conquered death, and you believe in him. So therefore, you're already a part of the kingdom. But this place, which is meant to be ephemeral, and unimportant ultimately, and just, you know, a step among the stairs, that if your identity here is wrapped up in winning and losing, then you can't really have your identity there. And he says, ultimately, you know, we're the death and resurrection people. Like losing, and losing well, is a part of the Christian experience. TIM ALBERTA  31:24 John Dixon talks about how there's sort of this inverse relationship historically, between the amount of cultural and social and political power held by Christians in a society and the health of Christianity in that society, right? In other words, when you hold the commanding heights, the Christian influence it actually tends to be pretty weak and pretty corrupted and pretty compromised. When you are at the margins and when you are truly countercultural, the witness thrives. And we've seen that throughout history. Another favorite character of mine in the book, Brian Zahnd, who's the pastor of a church out in Missouri, he talks about how difficult it is for American Christians to really appreciate how the Bible is written from the perspective of the underdog, right? The Hebrew slaves fleeing Egypt, and the first century Christians living under a brutal Roman occupation. Like they had no power, they had no influence. And yet they were so joyful, and they were so content because they had their kingdom, right? And it does give me unease even in my own personal life, just the things I enjoy the materials, the prosperity, the comforts; can I fully appreciate the baby born in a manger? can I fully identify with the vagrant preacher from the ghettos of Nazareth? You know, it's a hard thing. Julie Roys  32:42 And here's the reality; that message, which is Christ's message really doesn't sell well in America. Having your best life now sells in America. And what we're seeing right now, and this, you know, brings me to the second section in your book dealing with power, which again, we've got to take back, America, has become sort of the mantra that we're hearing from so many of these, you know, political rights. And it has just morphed into something where, and again, I said at the outset, I used to be very much politically engaged with the conservative movement. I am not anymore because I can't stomach it and what it's become. I felt like we were being salt. But now it's about dominating and doing it by any means possible, where we just get rid of our morality. And I was always brought up to believe and I think this is what Scripture teaches, that the means is as important as the end. And so, if we achieve a righteous end through an unrighteous means, then we've lost. We've completely lost because we have given up what makes us unique, and what makes us God honoring for something that we're saying is a God honoring, you know end. But again, this is what has happened in our country. And, and what's interesting in this section that just captured my imagination. I mean, I've wondered this, like, you take a Robert Jeffress, right? This guy's not dumb. He's a smart Southern Baptist preacher, clearly a savvy guy. He has built this mega church, but the things that came out of his mouth, especially when Trump was in power, but it's still there. The things that come out of his mouth, and I think, he's got to know that this is not in line with the Gospels. He's got to see this. And yet, publicly, you wouldn't hear that. But when you met with him privately, you began to hear some doubt in there and allowing you to see a little bit of vulnerability, although it didn't seem to last all that long. But talk about that, because I'm not sensing much doubt in the masses that follow these men. But when you get them one on one, tell me what you see. TIM ALBERTA  34:50 And it's not just Robert Jeffress, Greg Locke, Greg Locke, Ralph Reed. Yeah, yeah, a lot of these guys. It's the pastor who in my hometown, grew his church tenfold by basically turning Sunday morning worship services into Fox news segments. And giving a Nazi salute to Gretchen Whitmer from his pulpit. I mean, but then you get them one on one. And you press them a little bit. I mean, you know, politely, respectfully, but you press them. Suddenly, they not only back off a little bit, but they do a little bit of like winking and nodding at you to basically say, like, you're right, I'm definitely putting on a bit of a song and dance here for the masses. But I think that they will ultimately justify it by saying, Well, yeah, but look at all these people who are coming in and look at the opportunity, we have to reach them now with the gospel? So, you know, those ends really do justify the means. I think the problem with that, as you hinted it, is but look, I mean, there's a lot of problems with it. You know, Mark 8:36 is not a rhetorical question, right? Like, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul? But I think for some of these people, some of these leaders, the thing that really grates at me and I know it grates at you, Julie, is like, they're the shepherds, they're the ones who are supposed to know better, because a lot of their flock, you know, and I'm not being condescending or patronizing when I say this, they don't necessarily know better, they are the sheep, right? They need to be shepherded. And instead of shepherding, a lot of these people have just themselves become wolves. And they become wolves for what? So that you can have a seat at the table? So that you can get on Fox News? So that you can raise some money? So that for what ultimately? You're so right, when you press them on it almost to a person, they will acknowledge at some level that what they're doing is kind of gross, and kind of anti-biblical, and then they just keep on doing it. Julie Roys  36:46 So, speak to the person who is listening. And we probably don't have a ton of these. But there may be some who are listening, who have bought this hook, line, and sinker that we do need to take America back. And Franklin Graham told us it's all for the Supreme Court justices, and we got the Supreme Court justices and Roe v. Wade was just overturned and, you know, look at what was accomplished. So, you know, politics is a dirty business, Tim. I mean, come on, if we're gonna win in politics, which, you know, we're talking about babies here, babies are being slaughtered left and right. And then, you know, some of these people would allow a baby to be born alive and kill it. You know, that's who these people are. So, I mean, come on. This is the world we live in, and we've got to fight the way that the world fights. What do you say? TIM ALBERTA  37:35 I'd say a couple of things. I think you can go round and round about Roe v. Wade, and about Trump and about Supreme Court justices. But be careful what you wish for in this space. Because the fact of the matter is that Roe v Wade fell, and the total number of abortions in this country went up. I live in Michigan, where prior to Roe v Wade falling, there were pretty tight abortion restrictions in Michigan. Now, it is the wild west. It is some of the most liberalized abortion laws in the country. And that is true in seven or eight other states that have had ballot initiatives passed since Roe v. Wade, dramatically liberalizing abortion laws, and it's going to happen in a number of other states next year. So, let's be really clear eyed and fact based when we talk about what our political involvement does and what it doesn't do. At the end of the day, if you want to win hearts and minds to stop the scourge of abortion, if you are a Christian, and you view this as your great crusade, then is voting for a candidate or putting a bumper sticker on your car, is that the way to win those hearts and minds? Because the fact is, if American evangelicals had put a fraction of the energy into the social side of abortion, of doing the hard work in the clinics, and helping the single mothers and doing the foster care that is needed to address this at its root, if they had been willing to do that over the last 50 years, my guess is that public opinion would be dramatically different as it pertains to abortion. And we wouldn't even be talking about Roe v. Wade, because the number of abortions would be so low in this country that it wouldn't even register. But we've sort of self-selected into this alternate universe where politicians are our savior, and that politics is the mechanism by which we right the wrongs in this country. And I'm sorry, but if you are citizens of another kingdom?, then you can't possibly believe that. You can't possibly believe that Donald Trump or that any other politician is the person who's going to ultimately right these great moral wrongs. But unfortunately, I think that's the trap we've fallen into. Julie Roys  39:51 You know, I used to be very involved in the prolife movement. I will say, almost all of the people that I knew when I was involved in the pro-life movement, were actually involved in reaching out to single moms and caring for them and caring for their unborn children. But I think what we've forgotten so much is that politics is downstream of culture. So, if you're losing the culture, which we clearly are to change the politics, if you've got a kid that's rebellious, a teenager who's rebellious in your home, locking down all the windows and the doors in your house, that's not going to keep your kid from sinning. What's going to keep your kid from sinning, is if you can winsomely love your child into relationship with Jesus Christ and to want to be like you and to want to adopt your values. But we've forgotten about that, we've become this, you know, Midas right. And I remember in 2016, writing a commentary, The Rise of Trump, The Fall of Evangelicalism, and I said, we may win this one, but we will lose in the long run, if we throw our convictions out the window, and we alienate everyone around us, by our you know, the way that we talk and the way that we relate to people. This is not how you win people to the Lord. That fell on, you know, really deaf ears. It actually lost me some key supporters too. But I just was stunned because I did not know who these people were that I thought believed the same way that I did and had the same values. And then I went, Wow, we are just on different planets, we really don't have that. Julie Roys  41:29 I want to look at one person, again, you have these palate cleansers within all of these sections. And one of them to me is Cal Thomas, who was very much a part of the right and so I can relate to that, because that was I mean, I used to be emceeing the banquet to raise money for you know, the political cause, or whatever it was. I don't do that anymore. Cal Thomas doesn't do that anymore. What changed Cal? TIM ALBERTA  41:58 It's so funny, Julie, because just a minute ago, when you were talking about what are the weapons of our warfare? I was thinking about Cal., because Cal for those who don't know his story, you know, he was Jerry Falwell Senior's lieutenant in the Moral Majority. And he was their spokesman for the Moral Majority. And the vice president of that organization, and, you know, was really heavily involved in the kind of crusading era of the Religious Right, he was a central figure. And then Cal really started to feel uneasy with what he was seeing around him. And he doesn't even sugarcoat it. We have this very raw conversation in the book where he talks about, you know, the corruption and the greed and the grift. And how he just couldn't justify it. He justified it for a while by saying, Well, look how many people we're reaching, and look at all this money coming in. So clearly, you know, God must be doing something here. And then he eventually just gets to a point where he says, No, this is a scam. It's just immoral. And he finally walks away. And then years later, he writes this book called Blinded by Might, where he kind of tries to atone. And he just says, Listen, I was a total believer in winning the culture war to protect Christian America, as you know, part of our duty, you know, to God's kingdom. And in fact, not only has it failed, but it has backfired spectacularly, that we have driven away so many people who need Jesus, but who won't have anything to do with us anymore, They won't even let us in the door to have a conversation because of the way we've treated them because of the way we've treated the culture. So, to your point about locking down the teenager in the house, right? Cal really eloquently and powerfully was giving voice to this when he wrote that book. And then, you know, in our interviews for this book, he's an older guy now he's 80. And he's looking back with such regret on those years and thinking about how did he in some way contribute to laying the groundwork for Trump ism as this kind of sub cult in the evangelical world. And what's most interesting to me from that whole conversation, and I said this to him, is that the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the exact same. I mean, this break that he's describing in the 1980s. And this kind of crisis of conscience that he's feeling is exactly what we're trying to address today. What I'm trying to address in the book now, which is that, listen, it doesn't have to be this way. You have a choice, right? We all have a choice. It was so incredibly unpleasant for me to write this book in a lot of ways, Julie. If I'm being totally honest, I probably couldn't have written it while my dad was still alive. It would have been too hard. Like I've had some people writing me emails this past week saying, oh, like thank you for your courage. Thank you for your brave, I don't feel courageous. I don't feel brave. I feel like a coward in a lot of ways that it took me so long and that a lot of ways took my dad dying and having those experiences at his funeral to finally be willing to acknowledge and use my platform, my relatively high profile journalistically speaking to address this thing that has been so clearly wrong for such a long time. And so, for anybody listening, whether it's in your individual congregation, your faith community, your family, whatever it is like, it doesn't have to be this way. And it takes people like Cal Thomas, kind of blowing up his own life, blowing up his tribal affiliations and walking away. It takes Pastor Brian Zahnd, who I write about in Chapter 15, who had a mega church of 5000 people, and they were making money hand over fist. And then he just woke up one day and had this like epiphany from the Lord that it was all wrong, and that it was so shallow, and it was doing such a disservice to the Gospel. And he blew up his mega church. He's got like 150 people who come every Sunday now and the sanctuary seats like 2000. And he made a choice, right? Cal Thomas made a choice. You've made a choice, Julie. And I just think like, at the end of the day, the people who make that choice and who decide to reckon with what this has become? I don't think they're going to regret it. I really don't. Julie Roys  46:05 I have not regretted it once being free of the whole evangelical industrial complex as it's called, and just being free to follow your conscience without thinking, what are the consequences if I speak the truth publicly? Like what's going to happen to me? Like I see so many Christians just living in fear that if they speak out, or they tell the truth that they know that something, you know, there will be bad consequences for me, and it just makes me wonder, do we believe the gospel, like do we believe the gospel? What gospel are we living on day-to-day basis? And I love Pastor Zahnd's story that was like one of my favorite stories. And it reminded me of the book because I just interviewed Scott McKnight and Laura Behringer and their book pivot, which talks about similar things, other churches that realized church is toxic. It's huge, it's successful, but I feel empty inside, you know, and I feel thin, and they made that pivot. And it may be to smaller church, it may be and it's interesting, though, you were saying how Zahnd's church is now starting to maybe even start to grow and become a little bit healthier. And so, when I hear that I say, it's going to take a while. But in this, you know, these ashes, do you see something growing that's beautiful there that can replace this ugliness that quite frankly, I think I just think it's doomed. I think it's coming down. I don't know that it will come down quickly. This complex that we've built, but I think it will come down eventually. It may take decades. But I think there will be a Christianity I hope this was my prayer that replaces it. And it's more organic and more Grassroots less big leadership and more the Body of Christ. TIM ALBERTA  47:48 Yes,  I do see something rising from the ashes. I can sense it, particularly among the younger generation. One of the things that consistently surprised me in all of my reporting, and it was a pleasant surprise, to be clear, was spending time with younger believers. They ideologically, culturally, politically, like they're really no different from their parents, like they check those boxes on paper. But then you kind of get into some of this with them. And they want nothing to do with Trumpism. They want nothing to do with Charlie Kirk, and I'm talking about like the serious believers. I'm not talking about like the very casual kids who identify as Christian, but then go to a Turning Point USA event. I mean, like, you spend time around Liberty, and like, yes, there are some MAGA kids at Liberty. But most of the kids you spend time with  at Liberty, including those who would self-identify as like, sure I guess on paper, I would be a Republican, because of abortion because of other issues, they will really eloquently and gracefully speak to these schisms. And they're so perceptive. I think that's the big thing, Julie, is that they can see it. Right? My generation, I kind of think of us as like the children of the Moral Majority. And we can now very clearly diagnose this in a way that my dad's generation probably couldn't, they were too close to it. They were too wrapped up in it. And I think, you know, in some ways, they almost I kind of tend to maybe just give them a little bit of a pass for that because they didn't have the appropriate distance to really assess it and analyze it in the way that I think I'm able to, and certainly in the way that the generations behind me are able to. They see what this is doing to the church, and they are saying no, thank you. Even at my home church, the guy who took over for my dad, almost run out of the place. He came very close to just quitting because it got so bad for him because he hears this young guy taking over this, this mega church congregation in a very conservative Republican community. And he's not particularly a conservative Republican. He's not like some big Democrat either. He's just a guy who like loves Jesus and who processes news events through the eyes of like the gospel, right? What's so interesting is that he lost a ton of his congregation. And then this past summer, I went back for the first time since my dad's funeral, and the place was packed, and I didn't recognize anybody there. And he comes out and gives this sort of fire and brimstone sermon, challenging them on the culture wars, challenging them on like, where are your priorities, really? What kingdom do you really belong to? And so that actually, I didn't aim to end the book on that optimistic note, but I was so encouraged by it, because it makes me think that in this market of supply and demand that you and I have talked about, and mostly we focused on the perverted nature of the supply and demand, that there is also maybe more demand out there than we realize for that true, pure form of the gospel. And so that is my hope, moving forward, and particularly with these younger Christians, who will demand something better than what we've seen so far. Julie Roys  50:53 I loved that I don't often read the epilogue, but in your book I did. And that was beautiful to read about Pastor Winans and the way that, you know, you kind of left them in the early chapters really disillusioned and discouraged. And then he comes back invigorated for the gospel, and preaching it so boldly and that really, pastors like that give me hope. And I know that there's probably a lot more of them than I encounter in you know, the line of work that I do, which usually means I hear about the worst of the worst all the time. Julie Roys  51:28 Let me just ask you about this most of your chapters are about political power and about the way that these kingdoms  and the power has sort of become an idolatrous thing. And then you turn your eye to corruption going on in the church and the abuse, the abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention, how that's been addressed recently, how Rachel den Hollander stood up to it and she went, you know, most people I'm sure listening know Rachel's story. But you know, one of the first gymnasts who came forward and told her story about Larry Nasser, and how he had abused so much of the, you know, US Olympic gymnasts team. And she went from being just Joan of Arc, I think you call it to being Jezebel, right? Or from Esther to Jezebel, because she spoke out about the evil in the church. And that's what I found. When I was at Moody Radio I was allowed to speak about Joel Osteen, right? Or I was allowed to speak about the liberals in politics. But when I turned my critique on our own tribe, man, I would get shut down, you know. That's one of the reasons I left Moody besides the others that I talked about. I couldn't speak out about the evil in our own house. And I feel that at this point, we have no moral platform as Christians to be speaking about the evil out in the world anymore, until we deal with the evil in our own house and the way that it's crept in. You know, judgment begins with the house of God. He doesn't expect, you know, the people who don't know him, to act any differently than they're acting, but He expects us to, and we're not. So, I appreciated that you put this chapter in the book, dealing with some of the abuse and the corruption within the church. But you could have easily left it out and just talked about the way that politics has, you know, really usurped the gospel. Why did you put this chapter in? TIM ALBERTA  53:28 One of the things that really bugs me, is how the New Testament model here and you were just alluding to this a moment ago. The New Testament model is not ambiguous. We are to treat outsiders with unlimited grace and kindness and compassion and forgiveness, because they don't know God, and they don't know any better. That is clear. And what is also clear is that we are to treat the insiders with the utmost accountability, and they are to be held to the highest standard because they do know God, and they do know better. That is the New Testament model. And we in the American church have completely flipped it. We have nothing but hostility, and animus and enmity towards the outside world. And we practice nothing but grace and forgiveness and cheap grace and cheap forgiveness inside the church. Right? And it drives me a little bit nuts. Because if you are the person out there in the world, who is sort of curious about Jesus, and you feel something missing in your life, what are the odds today that you're going to go to a local church and try to learn a little bit more? I mean, you know, you might say, Well, some people will, some people do Sure. But the statistics here don't lie, Julie. Like when you look back 30 or 40 years, the perception of the church among unbelievers in this country was incredibly positive. People who did not know Jesus looked at the church as a beacon of moral rectitude, of compassion, of social good. Even if they were never going to sit in the pews with us, even if they didn't believe any of the doctrine, they respected the church and they admire the church. And that has completely changed. It's just completely fallen apart. There are some people who will tell you like Robert Jeffers and I go back and forth on this in the book, he said, Well, that it doesn't matter, right? Those people aren't looking for the Lord. I completely disagree. I think the credibility of the church matters enormously. TIM ALBERTA  55:37 To your question of why did I feel compelled to include that chapter? Well, who's going to hold the church accountable? Is the church going to hold itself accountable? No, I mean, typically, institutions are not very good at self-policing. We know that from working in journalism, right? By the way, the media is not very good at self-policing. Actually, I could argue the media is terrible at self-policing. I mean, any big institution, it can't be expected to hold itself accountable. Okay, so what are the mechanisms for accountability here? If we care about the Bride of Christ, if we care about the credibility of the church, if we care about how the outside world perceives the church, which I think matters enormously, then what do we do to ensure that the church is on the up and up and is doing its duty before God and it's carrying out its purpose and its mission? You know, journalism has to play a role in that. I think, you know, the law has to play a role in that. I think that there are external forces, even, you know, gasp secular forces that have to play a role in that, because otherwise, we just leave these churches, these pastors to their own devices. And I'm sorry, but you don't need to read any other source then the Bible itself. You pick up the Bible itself, read from Old Testament to new and see how well that works out. We see it time and again. I there are not accountability structures in place, then things go very badly, very quickly. And so that's a long answer to your question. Julie Roys  57:06 Hmm. Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate your book. And I know you're getting interviews all over the country. I saw you on CBS, Good Morning America; that was so exciting to see but really wonderful that you've gotten this platform to winsomely speak to the rest of society who I remember a couple of times, I got to be on NPR. They would ask me about evangelicalism, and they are always amazed, I think that I could even string two sentences together. And I was actually an evangelical right? But I am so thrilled that you are representing evangelicals because you're a face that and I don't know, do you still identify as Evangelical? TIM ALBERTA  57:49 not really, I don't fight the label, but I would not volunteer it for myself just because of exactly what we just described, you know. Somebody outside the church hears it, and they quickly shut down the conversation, because they don't really want anything to do with you. Julie Roys  58:01 I don't know if I would take that term, either. I'm kind of where you are, as well. But you're a Christian, and you love Jesus. And even when I heard you in that one interview recently said, How's your faith? and you're like, it's as strong as it's ever been. I thank you for that and for your witness, and for this book, and for giving me so much of your time. I really appreciate it. So, thank you, TIM ALBERTA  58:21 Thank you for all that you're doing. And thank you for saying that. It's very kind of you. We're ultimately playing some small part here in trying to get this thing back on track and doing it as humbly as possible. I hope that we can make a difference. Thank you for having me on. And I know that we'll continue to talk. Julie Roys  58:39 Absolutely. And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And just a quick reminder, if you'd like a copy of Tim Alberta's book, The Kingdome, The Power, and The Glory, we'd be happy to send you one for a gift of $50 or more to The Roys Report this month. Again, we don't have any large donors or advertising, we simply have you, the people who care about exposing evil and restoring the church. So, if you'd like to support our work and get Tim's book, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, I want to let you know that next week, I'll be releasing another talk from the RESTORE conference. This one is by veteran church planter Lance Ford, who gave an amazing talk on the Christian addiction to leadership and why it's so toxic. I love this talk and I think you will too. So be watching for that. We'll release the talk as both an audio podcast and as a video at my YouTube channel. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media. So, more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more

Pastor Sean Palmer continues our series in the Beatitudes and challenges us to continue to hunger for justice even in the midst of seemingly impossible problems. ResourcesMatthew 5:6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness—they will be filled.___________“There are two major purposes in our criminal justice system, your Honor: the pursuit of justice and the protection of the innocent. Neither of these purposes can be met if anything less than the maximum available sentence under the plea agreement is imposed upon Larry for his crimes. Not because the federal sentence he will already serve is lacking, but because the sentence rendered today will send a message across this country, a message to every victim and a message to every perpetrator…I realize you have many factors to consider when you fashion your sentence, but I submit to you that the pre-eminent question in this case as you reach a decision about how best to satisfy the dual aims of this court is the same question that I asked Judge Neff to consider: How much is a little girl worth? How much is a young woman worth?”— Rachel Denhollander, Victim Impact Statement____________“Jesus has a blessing for people who hear the screaming inside, who know in their bodies and brains and feelings and souls that there's a gap between what is and what should be…It's a blessing for refugees whose homelands have been turned into wastelands by the powers of empires that have treated them like collateral damage in their quest for domination. It's a blessing for women who have had to play along with the patriarchy. It's a blessing for anyone who wakes up and discovers that we have so far to go and that we're all in this together.”— Jason Adam Miller, When The World Breaks___________________“Much has been said and written in recent years about the connection between religion and violence. Three answers have emerged. The first: Religion is the major source of violence. Therefore if we seek a more peaceful world we should abolish religion. The second: Religion is not a source of violence. People are made violent, as Hobbes said, by fear, glory and the ‘perpetual and restless desire for power after power that ceaseth only in death'. Religion has nothing to do with it…It may be used by manipulative leaders to motivate people to wage wars precisely because it inspires people to heroic acts of self-sacrifice, but religion itself teaches us to love and forgive, not to hate and fight. The third answer is: Their religion, yes; our religion, no. We are for peace. They are for war.” ― Jonathan Sacks, Not in God's Name: Confronting Religious Violence————————————-Job 37:23The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress. ———————“The Resistance...consisted, day after day, of small efforts…to calculate their actions—abetting escapes, circulating mimeographed news, hiding fugitives, obtaining money or needed documents, engaging in various forms of noncooperation with the occupying authorities or the quisling bureaucrats, wearing armbands, disrupting official communications—in terms of odds against the Nazi efficiency and power and violence and vindictiveness would seem to render their witness ridiculous…The risks for them of persecution, arrest, torture, confinement, death were so disproportionate to any concrete results that could practically be expected…yet these persons persevered in their audacious, extemporaneous, fragile, puny, foolish Resistance.”— William Stringfellow

Tom Ascol has entered the chat and he has some words for Rachel Denhollander's criticism of John MacArthur. Denhollander has accused MacArthur of being connected to Bill Gothard in his teachings on male headship and women's roles in the world. Is it slander like Ascol says? All this and more on today's Underdog Theology! ------ MY LINKS -------

Jon examines a Rachel Denhollander tweet thread against John MacArthur and Jay Adams. Then, a discussion of the metoo situation at SEBTS concerning Bruce Ashford. Finally, Jon refutes Ken Burn's take on Ron Desantis's anti-CRT measures and explains what Matthew 20 means concerning power. PowerPoint: https://www.patreon.com/posts/79709785Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jon talks about the issues of the day including Marjorie Taylor Green's call for a "national divorce," The Southern Baptist Conventions approach to MeToo and female pastors at Saddleback, and the ACBC's response to Christianity Today (and probably Rachel Denhollander's) critique of biblical counseling.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jon talks about issues of the day including Rachel Denhollander going after NANC and ACBC, an SBC church pushing back on a member of the sexual abuse task force, and the insanity going on in East Palestine Ohio.Patreon.com/worldviewconversationSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jon talks about a number of issues happening simultaneously in the SBC that all seem to spell doom for the organization whether it's the conflict of interest issues with people like Rachel Denhollander and Michael Crawford, or the showdown between ERLC ethics and Abortion Abolitionists, or the way the MeToo movement is fundamentally changing the nature of the convention. To support: https://www.worldviewconversation.com/support/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Check Out The New BTWN News Website btwnnews.org On this episode of Protestia Tonight for August 2nd, 2022, we discuss the dangers and pragmatism behind the "pro-life" movement, and talk about why you can't baptize yourself. In the patron portion, we answer sincere questions about the "gift" of the jab and how Rachel Denhollander doesn't seem to know anything about Christian marriages.

Check Out The New BTWN News Website btwnnews.org On this episode of Protestia Tonight for August 2nd, 2022, we discuss the dangers and pragmatism behind the "pro-life" movement, and talk about why you can't baptize yourself. In the patron portion, we answer sincere questions about the "gift" of the jab and how Rachel Denhollander doesn't seem to know anything about Christian marriages.

The “David raped Bathsheba” myth has been making the rounds again. The usual suspects, like Rachel Denhollander, have been propagating the unbiblical and Marxist narrative. This is also the official position of none other than John Piper, a position he has held since at least December of 2013. The biblical text and selections of Piper's views will be taken verbatim and scrutinized to see if the allegations hold up. Links to references are available on my substack article: https://jasonmodar.substack.com/p/did-david-rape-bathsheba?sd=pf Subscribe to my podcast at https://anchor.fm/jason-modar Subscribe to my substack at https://jasonmodar.substack.com/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Bruxy Cavey, John MacArthur, and others have recently had various types and levels of abuse reported on in their churches by Julie Roys. How are we supposed to think about this? Today we will focus on physical abuse and while we are far from experts on this important issue, we have been through several occurrences of abuse within the church. Our goal will be to have a healthy and biblically grounded conversation on how to deal with abusers and comfort victims in the local church. Watch Live: https://www.youtube.com/c/deanlentini For actual resources on this topic please visit Rachel Denhollander's website: https://rachaeldenhollander.com John MacArthur on divorce: https://www.gty.org/library/articles/DD04/divorce-and-remarriage ------- MY LINKS -------

1. Seth continues his review of the Matthew 10, examining the light load of the disciples.2. Seth responds to a listener submission about justification.3. Seth discusses the SBC Executive Committee and Rachel Denhollander.

Seth continues his review of the Matthew 10, examining the light load of the disciples.Seth responds to a listener submission about justification.Seth discusses the SBC Executive Committee and Rachel Denhollander. Become a Patron! Donate on PayPal. Check out all the BTWN podcasts.

Amanda speaks with attorney, author and advocate Rachel Denhollander and Author , Levis Brand President  and Producer Jennifer Sey. Rachel was the first professional gymnast to testify against serial sexual assaulter Larry Nassar  and Jennifer wrote about the abuse in gymnastics over a decade ago in her book Chalked Up and  in the award winning documentary Athlete A.This is a hard story to hear, but sheds some light on the reality that one young gymnast had with Larry Nassar and the shocking coverup that @USAGymnastics perpetuated for years allowing Nassar to continue his predatory behavior. TRIGGER WARNING .

Episode 193 Jessica Fore. Dan Sterenchuk and Tommy Estlund are honored to welcome back Jessica Fore. Support Jessica's new album, “Scandalous Tales of Sordid Things”: https://www.gofundme.com/f/jessica-fore-concept-album-anti-abuse-advocacy Jessica writes on the gofundme page: “Some of y'all know my story from my blog starting here: https://jessicafore.wordpress.com/2016/09/22/i-might-get-excommunicated-for-this/ And some of y'all are familiar with my music from live gigs around Athens, Georgia, or from my first two albums, which have a couple of tracks posted here: https://www.reverbnation.com/jessicafore I was a contemporary Christian recording artist and church worship leader who got fired from a PCA church job for not reconciling and moving back in with an abusive spouse. When I started speaking up more and more about the abusive dynamics in the church, the church tried to shut me up and threatened excommunication. So I went public with my story and escalated it all the way to the floor of PCA General Assembly over the course of a couple of years, fighting procedural attempts at the church, presbytery, and General Assembly level to shut me up. This ultimately resulted in a denomination-wide committee currently studying abuse in the denomination and being advised by well known survivor advocates including Rachel Denhollander and Diane Langberg. I've been contacted by dozens of women with similar experiences, get involved advising and advocating for individuals in similar situations, and speak publicly to church leaders about abuse issues and corrupt power dynamics that underlie every form of oppression and social injustice. And I wrote a bunch of songs about all of it! Catchy, pointed, poignant, snarky, even darkly humorous songs delving into tons of different aspects of the whole experience. I've been planning a concept record about narcissism, abuse, and church injustice, tentatively entitled "Scandalous Tales of Sordid Things," for about 11 years. And I'm going into the studio to start recording it! (The subject matter is dark and explicit, and there's going to be some mild cussin' in it, so please don't be surprised when a given bop isn't tailored for the sensitive ears of kids or Baptists, or mad at me because you gave money and I said "ass.")” Listen to Jessica's previous interview on the podcast: https://soundcloud.com/thecuriosityhourpodcast/s01-e07-jessica-fore Note: Guests create their own bio description for each episode. The Curiosity Hour Podcast is hosted and produced by Dan Sterenchuk and Tommy Estlund. The Curiosity Hour Podcast is listener supported! The easiest way to donate is via the Venmo app and you can donate to (at symbol) CuriosityHour (Download app here: venmo.com) The Curiosity Hour Podcast is available free on 14 platforms: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Audible, Soundcloud, TuneIn, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, Podbean, Overcast, PlayerFM, Castbox, and Pocket Casts. Disclaimers: The Curiosity Hour Podcast may contain content not suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion advised. The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are solely those of the guest(s). These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of The Curiosity Hour Podcast. This podcast may contain explicit language. The Public Service Announcement near the beginning of the episode solely represents the views of Tommy and Dan and not our guests or our listeners.

Megan and Dom Benninger speak about their religious backgrounds and their journeys together through a religious cult, a charismatic nondenominational church, and a Southern Baptist church that all exhibited signs of spiritual abuse. As survivors, they have dedicated their lives to preventing spiritual abuse in institutional settings and serving others who have also been abused under the guise of Christianity. They hope to provide a safe place for victims of spiritual abuse to share their stories without judgement. They want to identify spiritually abusive wolves within organized religion, to protect others from harm. To find out more about this part of their mission, go to https://baptistaccountability.org/. They want to help others identify the signs and symptoms of spiritual abuse through their written works and educational resources, as well as through speaking engagements. Megan and Dominique shared their story with the USA Today, which was published online on February 13, 2020. The article, along w Megan & Dom's writings can be found on their website at https://churchtrauma.org.  To view writings about Oakwood and the letters Megan referred to in the podcast: https://churchtrauma.org/category/oakwood/ To view Dom's Narrowgate blog: https://churchtrauma.org/category/narrowgate-cult-series/ To visit Megan and Dom's website Baptist Accountability: https://baptistaccountability.org/ USA Today featuring Megan and Dom's story: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/02/13/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-pastors-history-divided-church/4586698002/ Rachel Denhollander quote & website: https://rachaeldenhollander.com/ “A review of protestant insurance companies found MORE reports of clergy sexual abuse than a review of Catholic insurance companies, even though Catholics actually keep better track.  And those predators are often being shielded by more pastors. This isn't a few random wolves.” Other people Megan and Dom mentioned: Jimmy Hinton: https://jimmyhinton.org/ Christa Brown: https://christabrown.me/ & Stop Baptist Predators: http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm Ashley Easter: https://www.ashleyeaster.com/ Jennifer is a mental health counselor located in the Los Angeles area, using Internal Family Systems (IFS) as the primary modality of psychotherapy that she uses with clients. Jennifer will graduate with her second Masters degree in 2021 in the Psychology of Coercive Control. She works both across the US and internationally with those seeking insight and healing. For more information, please visit her website, Jennifer-French.com. Follow Jennifer on social media at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jennifermonica.holcombInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.french.jfh/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr6Ufd0I7My6dumbTpQwn8A/playlists If you would like to be on the Project Hope Podcast or have any inquiries regarding the show, please email, projecthopepodcast@jennifer-french.com. To check out Pure Haven: https://purehaven.com/jenniferfrench  

Megan and Dom Benninger speak about their religious backgrounds and their journeys together through a religious cult, a charismatic nondenominational church, and a Southern Baptist church that all exhibited signs of spiritual abuse. As survivors, they have dedicated their lives to preventing spiritual abuse in institutional settings and serving others who have also been abused under the guise of Christianity. They hope to provide a safe place for victims of spiritual abuse to share their stories without judgement. They want to identify spiritually abusive wolves within organized religion, to protect others from harm. To find out more about this part of their mission, go to https://baptistaccountability.org/. They want to help others identify the signs and symptoms of spiritual abuse through their written works and educational resources, as well as through speaking engagements. Megan and Dominique shared their story with the USA Today, which was published online on February 13, 2020. The article, along w Megan & Dom's writings can be found on their website at https://churchtrauma.org.  To view writings about Oakwood and the letters Megan referred to in the podcast: https://churchtrauma.org/category/oakwood/ To view Dom's Narrowgate blog: https://churchtrauma.org/category/narrowgate-cult-series/ To visit Megan and Dom's website Baptist Accountability: https://baptistaccountability.org/ USA Today featuring Megan and Dom's story: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/02/13/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-pastors-history-divided-church/4586698002/ Rachel Denhollander quote & website: https://rachaeldenhollander.com/ “A review of protestant insurance companies found MORE reports of clergy sexual abuse than a review of Catholic insurance companies, even though Catholics actually keep better track. And those predators are often being shielded by more pastors.This isn't a few random wolves.” Other people Megan and Dom mentioned:Jimmy Hinton: https://jimmyhinton.org/ Christa Brown: https://christabrown.me/ & Stop Baptist Predators: http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm Ashley Easter: https://www.ashleyeaster.com/ Jennifer is a mental health counselor located in the Los Angeles area, using Internal Family Systems (IFS) as the primary modality of psychotherapy that she uses with clients. Jennifer will graduate with her second Masters degree in 2021 in the Psychology of Coercive Control. She works both across the US and internationally with those seeking insight and healing. For more information, please visit her website, Jennifer-French.com. Follow Jennifer on social media at:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jennifermonica.holcombInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.french.jfh/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr6Ufd0I7My6dumbTpQwn8A/playlists If you would like to be on the Project Hope Podcas or have any inquiries regarding the show, please email, projecthopepodcast@jennifer-french.com. To check out Pure Haven: https://purehaven.com/jenniferfrench

Ken welcomes Carla back after a week recovering from her second vaccine. Ken just got his - so they swap vaccine stories. It's been a brutal week with two tragic mass shootings - in Atlanta, Georgia and Boulder, Colorado. Ken and Carla talk about the fall-out that surrounds the awful events, including a push for gun control legislation. Several names come up: Ruth Graham of the New York Times, author Scot McKnight, Rachel Denhollander, Joe Manchin, David Hogg, and of course, Secretary Pete. They finish off today's chat with a reflection on a powerful appearance in Chinatown.Edition 83 Recorded March 24, 2021Support the show (http://thebeachedwhitemale.com)

“Institutions and systems and ministries are not Christ, nor is Christendom the same as the living body of Christ. Christendom, like all threatened institutions, tries to protect itself.” —Dr. Diane Langberg Dr. Diane Langberg started practicing psychology 45 years ago—when the only way to understand trauma was by studying her clients, rather than her books.  She joins the Better Samaritan podcast to discuss power and abuse in the church, how to respond when a friend opens up to you about abuse, and what abuse victims should do: find a safe person.  Now, Dr. Langberg directs a group practice in suburban Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, staffed by Christian psychologists, social workers and counselors. She has spoken around the world and authored numerous books. Her latest, “Redeeming Power: Understanding Abuse and Authority in the Church,” is available now. (Rachel Denhollander called this book “a must-read for spiritual leaders and for every Christian.”) (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll have evangelicals, sometimes we won't. We thinking learning how to do good better involves listening to lots of perspectives, with different insights and understanding with us. Sometimes it will make us uncomfortable, sometimes we'll agree, sometimes we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction. Especially in our blind spots.) Interview highlights: Similarities shown between victims of traumatic acts, and veterans of war How Diane learned about trauma in the 70's—when it wasn't yet defined by the psychology establishment What listeners should know if an abused friend has confided in them How to make the road safer (a Better Samaritan theme) for those to follow Resources mentioned: “Redeeming Power: Understanding Abuse and Authority in the Church” by Dr. Diane Langberg, available now Further reading and resources from Dr. Langberg's website "On Being a Good Neighbor", sermon draft by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. This episode produced by Laura Finch Theme Song “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter: @kentannan | @drjamieaten | @laura_e_finch (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll have evangelicals, sometimes we won't. We thinking learning how to do good better involves listening to lots of perspectives, with different insights and understanding with us. Sometimes it will make us uncomfortable, sometimes we'll agree, sometimes we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction. Especially in our blind spots.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On our 29th Episode, John and Payton get back in the booth (quarantined of course) to discuss faith and culture (and soccer too)! They break down the controversy surrounding the life of the late Ravi Zacharias, and they dive in (only ankle deep) into the world of QAnon and conspiracy theories. The guys also share their favorite Quarantine Corner tweets, and Payton gives a final update on #Biscuitgate!Quarantine Corner:Matthew Pierce: Build Your Own Bible StudyMark Rober: Squirrel ProofWhat in the World:Before Evangelicals Canonize Ravi Zacharias...CT: Ravi Zacharias Responds to Sexting Allegations, Credentials CritiqueTGC: Faithful Legacy Amid ControversyThe Atlantic: QAnon Is A New American ReligionEd Stetzer on QAnon

Today we discuss and review the books: Off Balance by Dominique Moceanu, Chalked Up by Jennifer Sey, Courage to Soar by Simone Biles, I Got This by Laurie Hernandez, Fierce by Aly Raisman, What Is A Girl Worth by Rachel Denhollander, Abused by Rachel Haines, and The Girls by Abigail Pesta. Abigail also joins us on the show to talk about the process of writing the book and some of the girls who bravely shared their story for the very first time. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/all-things-gymnastics/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/all-things-gymnastics/support

Jon talks about cultural change and how it can make people feel out of place, but reminds everyone that God is in control and that good things are also happening. Jon also responds to Rachel Denhollander's remarks on Paige Patterson and the SEND Network's reverence for MLK while castigating misplaced patriotism and President Trump. Lastly, Jon reviews a book that argues for Democratic Socialism based on Walmart's efficiency. www.worldviewconversation.com/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/worldviewconversation Subscribe: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/conversations-that-matter/id1446645865?mt=2&ign-mpt=uo%3D4 Like Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/worldviewconversation/ Follow Us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/conversationsthatmatterpodcast Follow Us on Gab: https://gab.ai/worldiewconversation Follow Jon on Twitter https://twitter.com/worldviewconvos Subscribe on Minds https://www.minds.com/worldviewconversation More Ways to Listen: https://anchor.fm/worldviewconversation --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/worldviewconversation/support

Last weekend Alex Bozarjian, a young news reporter, was smacked on the backside by a man running in a local race. The incident was caught on camera and led to a great outcry across the nation. Women everywhere say they can relate. Also this past week, in a seemingly unrelated story, Christianity Today made their 2020 Book Awards, bestowing the highest honor in the CT Women category to Rachel Denhollander for her book What is a Girl Worth? Bozarjian’s strength and response in the face of one incident, as well as Rachel Denhollander’s strength and response in the face of repeated abuse, have me asking three questions: how is sexual abuse harmful to victims well beyond the initial incident(s), why do survivors remain silent, and how can we in the church help survivors? Alex Bozarjian on Twitter Inside Edition Interview of the Runner What Is a Girl Worth?: My Story of Breaking the Silence and Exposing the Truth about Larry Nassar and USA GymnasticsChristianity Today’s 2020 Book Awards

When the unthinkable happens to our children, how do we react? Do we believe them and fight by their side or rationalize why the horrific reality of sexual abuse can’t possibly be true? This is the story of Rachel Denhollander and how her community of support empowered her to take down her abuser, even if it meant playing the long game. She touches on the issues of how her abuser got away with his crime for many years and what she has learned about preventing this organizational dysfunction in the future. Now she works to educate and advocate on the issues of sexual abuse and organizational ethics. She has been hard at work releasing two books that aid in her efforts to spotlight the lessons of her story while reminding young girls that they are valuable and worth protecting. Support the show.

This week on Money Matters, Rachael DenHollander, the former gymnast who first exposed the USA Gymnastics Sexual Abuse scandal and landed USGA physician Dr. Larry Nassar in prison as other women stepped forward after Ms. DenHollander's testimony. Her new book, What Is A Girl Worth, is out now. Rachael and Gary Goldberg explore the aftermath of the investigation, the #metoo movement and how organizations and workplaces are working to ensure this no longer happens. Also, Greg McBride, Chief Financial Analyst at Bankrate.com talks with Gary Goldberg about what could happen if the Federal Reserve embarks on a Zero or Negative Interest Rate Policy.

Dr. Calving Beisner, Founder and National Spokesman for the Cornwall Alliance, joins us to discuss his book Prospects for Growth. If you donate right now to Cornwall Alliance, they will send you a free copy of this book. Join our Club as you are our lifeline. Your membership will allows us to do four things: 1) help […]

In 2016, Rachel Denhollander and another former gymnast revealed that they had been sexually assaulted by Larry Nassar, a doctor working with USA Gymnastics. Since then, there have been over 250 identified victims of Dr. Nassar. Those claims have resulted in several high-level departures from USA Gymnastics, including the CEO and the replacement CEO. The U.S. Olympic Committee began decertification proceedings. Several sponsors have discontinued their relationship. USA Gymnastics is in a tailspin, and is looking to Chapter 11 for a solution. Our podcast will discuss the pros and cons of the bankruptcy filing, and some issues that USA Gymnastics may have to face as the case moves forward. Presenters: Elisa D’Amico and Jeffrey Kucera 

In 2016, Rachel Denhollander and another former gymnast revealed that they had been sexually assaulted by Larry Nassar, a doctor working with USA Gymnastics. Since then, there have been over 250 identified victims of Dr. Nassar. Those claims have resulted in several high-level departures from USA Gymnastics, including the CEO and the replacement CEO. The U.S. Olympic Committee began decertification proceedings. Several sponsors have discontinued their relationship. USA Gymnastics is in a tailspin, and is looking to Chapter 11 for a solution. Our podcast will discuss the pros and cons of the bankruptcy filing, and some issues that USA Gymnastics may have to face as the case moves forward. Presenters: Elisa D’Amico and Jeffrey Kucera 

Child sexual abuse in evangelical churches is shockingly more common than many think. Sexual predators often view the church as a “safe” environment for finding, grooming, and abusing their victims. What steps might a pastor and church take to establish a culture of prevention and recognition of sexual abuse? What responsibilities do pastors have in the investigation of accusations of sexual abuse? How should pastors prepare themselves to minister well to sexual abuse victims? Do pastors and churches need a written policy for dealing with sexual abuse? How does the hope of the gospel speak to victims of sexual abuse? Listen as Brian and Jim interview Rachel Denhollander concerning these issues and more.

Child sexual abuse in evangelical churches is shockingly more common than many think. Sexual predators often view the church as a “safe” environment for finding, grooming, and abusing their victims. What steps might a pastor and church take to establish a culture of prevention and recognition of sexual abuse? What responsibilities do pastors have in the investigation of accusations of sexual abuse? How should pastors prepare themselves to minister well to sexual abuse victims? Do pastors and churches need a written policy for dealing with sexual abuse? How does the hope of the gospel speak to victims of sexual abuse? Listen as Brian and Jim interview Rachel Denhollander concerning these issues and more.

Child sexual abuse in evangelical churches is shockingly more common than many think. Sexual predators often view the church as a “safe” environment for finding, grooming, and abusing their victims. What steps might a pastor and church take to establish a culture of prevention and recognition of sexual abuse? What responsibilities do pastors have in the investigation of accusations of sexual abuse? How should pastors prepare themselves to minister well to sexual abuse victims? Do pastors and churches need a written policy for dealing with sexual abuse? How does the hope of the gospel speak to victims of sexual abuse? Listen as Brian and Jim interview Rachel Denhollander concerning these issues and more.

Child sexual abuse in evangelical churches is shockingly more common than many think. Sexual predators often view the church as a “safe” environment for finding, grooming, and abusing their victims. What steps might a pastor and church take to establish a culture of prevention and recognition of sexual abuse? What responsibilities do pastors have in the investigation of accusations of sexual abuse? How should pastors prepare themselves to minister well to sexual abuse victims? Do pastors and churches need a written policy for dealing with sexual abuse? How does the hope of the gospel speak to victims of sexual abuse? Listen as Brian and Jim interview Rachel Denhollander concerning these issues and more.

In John's account of Jesus's healing of the man born blind, we see the message of the transfiguration: yes, God does great works. Let us go down among the people, who need us. In a world full of suffering, we can choose, as the Pharisees do, to pretend problems do not exist among people in our pews and our groups. Or we can do as Jesus does, and work to make all the places we gather safe spaces for people to admit when powerful people and beloved people have done wrong, and to work towards a true reconciliation. Warning: there is extensive talk about abuse. Image: Raphael’s Transfiguration at the Vatican Museum by Nathan Abels via https://www.flickr.com/photos/nathanabels/5307426552 Used under CC-BY-NC-ND

Doug Hardy highlights the amazing testimony and forgiveness of Rachel Denhollander, a committed Christian athlete.Read More →

Today Mike and Heather discuss Colossians 4:6 and how our speech needs to be gracious and seasoned with salt. As Heather points out one clear example is with the Rachel Denhollander and the message she had for Larry Nassar! All this and more in today’s episode! Want to know more then you better check it out!