Podcasts about reformed baptists

In this episode of Cultish, Andrew Soncrant is joined once again by former Mormon and Reformed Baptist pastor Braden Patterson to respond to a popular LDS video challenging Protestant Christianity. Together they tackle four foundational questions often raised by Mormon apologists: • Who has the authority to interpret Scripture? • What is the purpose of life? • How can a person know they are saved? • Why did God stop giving new revelation and Scripture? Drawing from Scripture, church history, and Braden's firsthand experience growing up in Mormonism, this conversation examines the differences between historic Christianity and the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Along the way, Andrew and Braden discuss the sufficiency of Scripture, assurance of salvation, the Gospel of grace, the nature of true authority, and the Mormon claim of a "restoration" of the church. If you've ever wondered how Christians should respond to common Mormon objections—or if you're a Latter-day Saint honestly exploring these questions for yourself—this episode is for you. Subscribe for more conversations exposing false gospels, cults, and religious deception while proclaiming the saving truth of Jesus Christ. Braden's Church: HERE Braden's YouTube: HERE Be Part of the Mission to Change Lives: HERE SHOP OUR MERCH: HERE

On today's episode of Grounded, Taylor Wallace joins Pastor Steve to discuss what it means to fight the good fight of faith! They discuss various temptations and pitfalls such as deconstructing, feminist tendencies or the insidious pull to unintentionally become a reviling wife. Thank you for your faithful listening to this project! We appreciate your support, such as hitting the like button on Youtube, writing a comment below or clicking subscribe and if you're looking to go the extra mile, please consider writing a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your Podcast service of choice. (Link below so you can navigate quickly, and drop some stars and perhaps a review, thank you!) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grounded-with-steve-hartland/id1645001839 in Christ, -Grounded Team

Preached on Sunday the 14th of June, 2026.‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5‬:‭11‬-‭14‬ ‭“About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.”Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

In Episode 250 of Theology In Particular, Pastor Joe Anady and Dr. Daniel Scheiderer are joined by Dr. Drew Sparks, Dr. Richard Barcellos, and Pastor Scott Meadows to preview the theme of this years of this years conference, which is chapters 12 & 13 of our confession of faith, Of Adoption And Sanctification.   Contact: For information about International Reformed Baptist Seminary, go to irbsseminary.org. For feedback, questions, or suggestions, email Joe Anady at tip@irbsseminary.org.   Resources: https://scrbpc.org/

Preached on Sunday the 7th of June, 2026 followed by the Lord's Supper.‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭10‬ ‭“For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is obligated to offer sacrifice for his own sins just as he does for those of the people. And no one takes this honor for himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was. So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.”Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

We continue our time looking at what makes a Reformed Baptist Church unique.

What happens when someone raised deep inside Mormonism discovers the true Gospel of Jesus Christ? In this episode of Cultish, Andrew Soncrant sits down with Braden Patterson, a former Latter-day Saint who grew up in a generational Mormon family, prepared for a mission, and was fully committed to the LDS faith. Today, Braden serves as a Reformed Baptist pastor and proclaims the Gospel he once opposed. Braden shares his upbringing in Mormonism, growing up in Idaho, his family's deep LDS roots, being baptized at age eight, preparing for missionary service, and the questions that eventually led him to examine the truth claims of Mormonism more closely. Along the way, he discusses Mormon culture, the burden of works-based righteousness, the search for truth, and the grace of God that ultimately opened his eyes to the biblical Gospel. This is a powerful testimony of God's sovereignty, saving grace, and the freedom found in Christ alone. Braden's Church: HERE  Braden's YouTube: HERE Be Part of the Mission to Change Lives: HERE SHOP OUR MERCH: HERE

Preached on Sunday the 31st of May, 2026.Hebrews 4:14-1614 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

In this session of Bible Hour, we explore our identity as a church and what it means to be reformed and baptist.

Preached on Sunday the 24th of May, 2026.Jeremiah 6:14-1614 They have healed the wound of my people lightly,    saying, ‘Peace, peace,'    when there is no peace.15 Were they ashamed when they committed abomination?    No, they were not at all ashamed;    they did not know how to blush.Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;    at the time that I punish them, they shall be overthrown,”says the Lord.16 Thus says the Lord:“Stand by the roads, and look,    and ask for the ancient paths,where the good way is; and walk in it,    and find rest for your souls.But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.'Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

In this profound exploration of Matthew 21:40-46, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb unpack the Parable of the Wicked Tenants and its devastating indictment of Israel's religious leadership. The hosts navigate the complex theological terrain of kingdom transfer, covenant faithfulness, and the identity of God's people across redemptive history. With careful attention to the text's original context and its implications for the church today, they examine how Christ presents himself as the rejected cornerstone—the one upon whom people either fall in repentance or are crushed in judgment. This episode offers rich insights into supersessionism, the remnant theology of Romans 11, and the practical call for Christians to examine whether they're submitting to Christ as the true cornerstone or attempting to usurp his rightful place. Key Takeaways The Self-Condemning Verdict: The chief priests and Pharisees unknowingly pronounce judgment upon themselves when they declare the wicked tenants deserve destruction, demonstrating how the natural conscience can discern God's justice even when blind to personal complicity. Kingdom Transfer as Covenant Transition: The "taking away" of the kingdom represents not the abandonment of God's elect remnant but the historical-redemptive transition from the typological Old Covenant administration to the New Covenant church gathered from all nations. The Cornerstone's Double Judgment: Christ as the cornerstone presents two modes of encounter—those who fall upon him in repentance are broken but healed; those upon whom he falls in final judgment are ground to powder with no remedy. Visible vs. Invisible Church Distinction: The visible identification of God's people shifted from the geopolitical nation of Israel to the universal church, while the invisible elect have always been saved by grace through faith in the coming Messiah. Fear of Man vs. Fear of God: The Pharisees' restraint from seizing Jesus due to fear of the crowds (rather than fear of God) exemplifies how the wicked are dominated by human opinion rather than divine accountability. Infant Baptism and Covenant Community: The joyful inclusion of children in the visible covenant community through baptism reflects God's gracious promise sealed to those who contribute nothing to their own covenant status. Fruit-Bearing as Evidence: The "new tenants" are characterized not by works-righteousness but by evidential fruit—the genuine works that flow from "true and lively faith" worked by the Holy Spirit. Key Concepts The Irony of Self-Condemnation The theological and pastoral power of this parable reaches its climax when the religious leaders, failing to perceive themselves as the wicked tenants in Jesus's story, pronounce harsh judgment upon the hypothetical villains: "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end." This moment mirrors Nathan's confrontation of David after the Bathsheba affair, yet with a tragic difference—these leaders never experience David's repentance. Calvin observes that the natural conscience, even when blind to personal guilt, retains an "hidden impulse to identify with justice." The Pharisees demonstrate total depravity in high definition: they possess enough moral clarity to recognize egregious covenant-breaking in the abstract, yet remain entirely blind to their own embodiment of that very wickedness. This irony serves as both judgment and warning—we all possess an uncanny ability to see sin clearly everywhere except in the mirror. Kingdom Transfer: Covenant Continuity and Discontinuity The phrase "the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing its fruit" requires careful theological handling to avoid both replacement theology (in its pejorative sense) and dispensational fragmentation. The Reformed understanding maintains covenant continuity: there has always been one people of God, defined not ethnically but by faith in the Messiah. What changes is the visible administration of the covenant. Under the Old Covenant, the visible church was largely coterminous with ethnic Israel—a geopolitical reality with boundaries, a zip code, and national identity. Under the New Covenant, the visible church explodes these ethnic and geographic boundaries, fulfilling God's promise to Abraham that "in your seed all nations will be blessed." This is not Plan B; it's the eschatological unveiling of what was always intended. The "breaking off of natural branches" (Romans 11) refers to covenant unfaithfulness resulting in exclusion from visible covenant privileges, while the faithful Jewish remnant—the apostles, early believers, and the ongoing elect from Israel—remain fully incorporated into the church. The vineyard hasn't been abandoned; it's been opened to "other tenants" who will render the proper fruit: Gentiles grafted in alongside believing Jews into the one olive tree of God's redemptive purposes. The Cornerstone: Salvation or Destruction Christ's invocation of Psalm 118:22—"the stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone"—followed by his dual judgment ("whoever falls on this stone will be broken...on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust") presents two exhaustive options for relating to Jesus. The cornerstone in ancient construction was the foundational stone by which all other stones found their proper alignment and orientation. To fall upon this stone willingly—in repentance, faith, and self-abandonment—is painful. It shatters pride, self-righteousness, and autonomy. But this breaking leads to healing, to being properly "squared" and aligned with reality as God has constructed it. The alternative is catastrophic: to have the cornerstone fall upon you in final eschatological judgment is to experience irreversible, total destruction—being "ground to powder" with no possibility of remedy. The practical application is urgent: we must examine ourselves continually to ensure we're not attempting to be our own cornerstone, measuring righteousness by our own standards, aligning the universe to ourselves rather than submitting to Christ as the measure of all things. Memorable Quotes "There's never a time where that righteousness is removed or unapplied, but we are constantly faced with a choice as to whether we want to be the kind of people who render our fruit unto the Lord, as the faithful tenants when the unfaithful tenants are replaced. Or do we wanna be the people that reap wicked fruit and keep for ourselves?" — Tony Arsenal "The vineyard of God is still let out, the fruit is still demanded, the cornerstone is still laid. Blessed are they who receive him—and also get those babies into church." — Jesse Schwamb "This is not a wall you're gonna run through. Like you're gonna smash into this wall and it's gonna crush you. And if you are not properly assigning the cornerstone its place... the whole thing is gonna crush you." — Tony Arsenal Full Episode Transcript [00:01:05] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 492 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:14] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:18] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.  [00:01:19] Parable Recap [00:01:19] Jesse Schwamb: Well, the time has finally come for us to close out our discussion in Matthew 21. This is the Parable of the Vine growers, and everybody should just go back and list everything we said so far, but I think here's how we could sum it up. Jesus's authority gets challenged and he sets a trap so beautiful that we should put it into a museum. He tells basically the religious bigwigs, this whole story where tenants speed up servants, they kill the air. They generally behave like it's an HOA literally run by the devil. And then he asks them this question, so what should the owner of the vineyard do And the chief priest. Chest puffed up. Basically shout out the answers to their own indictment. Smoke 'em. Give the vineyard to somebody who isn't garbage. Listen fellas, you just preached your own funeral. So in this we get to see this total depravity in 4K. Sovereign grace skips the credential gatekeepers and it lands on the tax collectors and the gentiles. They elect the vineyard, the self-righteous, get the rock. And we're gonna close out what all of that means, including probably not a small amount of talk about the kingdom being transferred, whatever that means, and maybe a little engrafting. Aah, Romans 11 style. It's all there for us. And that is what is coming up. [00:02:34] Affirmations Setup [00:02:34] Jesse Schwamb: Of course before we can do any of that, we can't even get there. Tony, before we do affirmations, denials, you and I both know it's our contractual obligation. It's what the people want all over the world. If we skip this, there will be some kind of riot revolt. So we gotta start there. Let's not get too excited yet. So I'm curious as always, are you affirming with something or you not against something for this episode?  [00:02:58] Tony Arsenal: I am, I'm affirming, uh, this is gonna be like people are gonna grow and roll their eyes a little bit.  [00:03:04] Infant Baptism Joy [00:03:04] Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming infant baptism today. We had a lovely infant baptism at church, um, and a couple recently had a child. Um, there's been, this was a kind of a particularly, um, poignant baptism. Um, the, the mother was in the hospital for several weeks before the baby was born, um, with some medical challenges, so was in. In the hospital. In the hospital for like, I want to say probably four weeks, which is a long time. Um, they have several other children, which makes it even harder. Um, and then, uh, then the baby was in the hospital for quite some time. He came a little early and then had some other issues. Um, and so this family was out of church for quite some time dealing with these health issues, and we, we all miss them very much. So it was a very sweet moment. Um, and it's just a, a good reminder, right? And, and the way our church does it is, you know, the pastor, the family comes up, they do vows, they do the baptism, but he calls all the children forward and the children come and sit, uh, right in the front row and they watch this all happen. Um. Which is, is very sweet. And you know, I, I went up there with Augie, and Augie was sitting on my lap and he was very, he was like super locked into this, this whole thing, which is, uh, which was nice to see. So I'm affirming infant baptism. It's a beautiful, beautiful picture of the gospel. Um, it's, it's God's promise being sealed to someone who contributes nothing to, um, to that promise contributes nothing to, uh, their own, um, position in the church or status in the church. They contribute nothing. Um, in most cases they're not even aware of what's going on. So I know not all of our listeners are, uh, are covenant infant Baptists, uh, type people. Um, so yes, I get it. You disagree, but there is something just sweet and beautiful, uh, even I think even for people who aren't quite sold on infant baptism. Um, and I think even sometimes for people who are kind of opposed to infant baptism, I think we've commented in the PA past that there's kind of this impulse that I think all Christian parents have that their children should be. Treated in a certain way that's different than how a non-Christian family treats their children. Right. Um, so there is kind of this instinct that the, there's, whether it's a formal status or just sort of a, a way of thinking about things, there is this impulse that the children of believers are somehow set apart in different, and of course, the, the Presbyterian Covenant Baptist, um, position would, would formalize that through the rite of baptism, uh, at least in part. So I'm affirming infant baptism, both theologically, but also just experimentally today. Like it was just, it was just a balm to my soul to see this, um. And like I said, the congregation has been praying for a long time for the health, uh, and the, the welfare of this family, um, and been, you know, doing meal trains and all the stuff that churches do. But it was, it was a very sweet moment, um, to see the pastor scoop this little baby up in his arms and be able to sort of introduce him to the church as the newest covenant member of the congregation. Uh, it was just a very nice moment. [00:05:59] Baptism Dedication Common Ground [00:05:59] Jesse Schwamb: I think you're right. We can all agree that there's something really beautiful about God growing his church, at least the visible church, through just the multiplicative effect of. People having children, there's something beautiful about that, and then welcoming them in an official way into your congregation, into your midst. Interestingly, in my church, there was a baby dedication today and I was also equally moved though like I would say the promises that were invoked during that time, the equipment's made are very different than what you might hear during kind of pedo infant baptism. You're right in that the spirit of this that is like a representation kind of bringing forward of the child to say he or she is part of us and we're making a commitment to raise them in admonition of the Lord is a really lovely thing. It's like a public recognition that God is providing a manifest blessing in our midst, and that he is growing and working out his church and he's doing it by just bringing new people into it who are being, who are the subjects of procreation. Creation itself, but procreation and how can you not be like, just excited about that. And, and also a little bit like it's also, and I'm not trying to denigrate any practice here, but also just on the face also super adorable. Like when you, when you see a pastor scoop up, like you said, a little child, whether that's to pray with them and dedication or to baptize them. Either way, it's super just like lovely and just pulls in your heartstrings. Yeah. In like this very spiritual way, not just in kind of an emotional kind of way.  [00:07:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I don't, I think, um, when I think back, you know, Augie's, obviously you know this, but Augie was dedicated, um, Addie was not. Um, but when I think back to the vows we took, when we dedicated Augie, there are some differences, but there's also a lot that's not different like the sure close to like, raise up your child in the church and to like, pray for them and set a good example. And then, and then the sort of reciprocal vows that the congregation typically takes, that the congregation will do what they can to support the family as they, they raise this child and the Lord. Um, you know, even in, even in a lot of contexts, like in the Presbyterian church, I'm in like prayers that this, this child would come to know Jesus and would, would come to confess the faith for themselves and become a full, you know, full communicate member of the church. Like, those things are all present. So as much as I think, um. As much as I wanna acknowledge that infant baptism or, or covenant, I, I say covenant baptism versus, um, sort of like baptist theology writ, large credo Baptist theology, which is covenantal, but differently covenantal in most cases. Right. Um, even though that is a dividing line, and I think like it's a real dividing line. There's a real division that exists and that there's good theological historical reasons why those divisions exist. There still is so much that is the same. Um, in terms of how Baptists and, and Presbyterians or however formed, you know, PR Christians, um, re reflect on and think about their children. There's some differences, but in terms of like. We all want our children to come to know Jesus. We all want their first memory to be worshiping in the church and loving the Lord. We, we don't want them to ever remember a time where the name of Christ was not on their lips as their savior. Um, all those things are the same and even the, the way we promise before God and, and primarily before God, but before others, even the way we promise to nourish them in, in right doctrine and nourish them in good teaching and bring them into the church and, and set a faithful example. All of those things are the same. So I I I, I never want to diminish the fact that there are differences 'cause there are real differences and there are important differences. But I also think we often sort of like. I think because we've talked about this before, like Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians are so close that we have to bicker over the things that are different. It's like you're, it's like when you fight with your brother on whose side of the room it's on. Like you're so close that you have to find the little things to really bicker about and then you really, really bicker about them. And I think that kind of like describes the, the Presbyterian Baptist divide in a lot of ways. I know there's a lot of people that would say like, Lutherans are closer to Presbyterians and those people are just, I dunno, they're just wrong. Um, on, on, maybe on baptism, they're, they're not wrong. But in terms of general theological principles, like, you know, Westminster Confession, London Baptists, confession, like, it, it's 95% the same content. Sure. Um, and 95% like the same confession, not just the same like words, but the same meaning of the words. And, um, so yeah. Anyway, that's my affirmation. Infant baptism. It was a joy. I was happy to see it. Um, uh, we have a ton of little, little babies in the, the church. It's funny 'cause another, another, um. A couple announced today that they were expecting, and we've, we've had basically pregnant women in the church for, you know, obviously like at least nine months if someone is still pregnant. But like we've had, we've had this like rotation of, of women delivering babies for like, at least, probably, at least 16, 18 months of, of constantly having people who are, are expecting, which is really a great joy to see. So I, I love it. I love the church. I love the Presbyterian church. Um, and this was just another great example of, of the beauty of, uh, a robust confessionalism and a robust presbyterianism. [00:11:08] Jesse Schwamb: The way in which you said that made it sound like you're about to make like a grand historical statement. Like, we've had pregnant people in the church since the first century.  [00:11:18] Tony Arsenal: Well, I mean that's probably true, but  [00:11:19] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, it definitely  [00:11:20] Tony Arsenal: true. Not, not our church. Our church has only been around, our particular church has only been around for like 10 years, so I'm sure there have been times during that period where there were not pregnant people  [00:11:29] Jesse Schwamb: pregnant. It just sounded like we were going all the way back as if like to, again emphasize and maybe this isn't, this is as fair statement, like how faithful God has been like from the beginning. There's always been. Pregnant lady Church. Look, look at how faithful God is.  [00:11:42] Mic Grabbing Babies [00:11:42] Jesse Schwamb: And, and this is true, I like to play this game when there is a baby dedication. I'm not sure what the sound system is like in your church, but often our, our pastors wear like the tiny little like Backstreet Boys style. It's probably outdated reference, but microphone that comes over the ear and to the mouth and it's very discreet. But the game I like to play is like once, once he takes the child for a time of dedication or specifically prayer, the, the goal is to see like how long before that baby goes for the mic. Because as soon as like a baby sees a mic right there, it's like, oh yeah, this is the best thing that's happened to me in my tiny little life.  [00:12:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, it's like an angler fish is really what it is. Yes. It's like that glowing bulb that just sits in front of its face and it's, the baby's just gotta grab it. [00:12:27] Jesse Schwamb: It's just too tempting. It's just too tempting. And I, and I love, you can tell like our pastors are really adept at being able to keep the prayer going and like discreetly maneuver the child, keep the child happy. It's, it's really an amazing thing. So altogether, I'm totally with you on so many levels. It's so good to see that happen in the church. And I'm with you on that. We gotta take joy in that For sure.  [00:12:48] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse, what do you got for us tonight?  [00:12:50] Book Breath Pick [00:12:50] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, something that's entirely unlike everything you just said. Certainly. Well, maybe, I guess there is a large spiritual component to this, but it's, I would say, for me, totally unexpected book recommendation and I came across this 'cause it was recommended to me and a while back, the keen or the listener who's been with us for a really long time, or a member that we talked about the book or why we sleep, this book became for me, like the equivalent of that in a totally different kind of topic or genre. It's called breath. The New Signs of a Lost Art by James Nestor and it explores how the way that humans breathe profoundly affects our health, our performance, our longevity. It's a book that is filled with both science and pseudoscience, which the author is really good at distinguishing and calling you to think about those things. But it's really totally changed how I understand like this little pattern in Habits of breathing. And it's a really interesting book of course. Like he draws from a lot of like religious influences, including of course the Judeo-Christian one. And I think that it even drew me back to understanding how God created us. And he did in a very specific way that text's giving some great description to the breadth that he gives us and how he gives us that breath. So if you're looking, I guess, for a little bit of a read, so that might surprise you about something that you might thought was automatic and simple in life and also that might. Be able to bring you some recommendations on how to better your health. Again, we're not doctors, but we are routinely considered among the top 50 healthcare podcasts. Then I would say this would be an interesting book for you to check out.  [00:14:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I haven't read it, but it's been recommended to me and one of the, one of the takeaways, actually, I think it might have been my doctor, my my PCP who mentioned this to me is like, if you wanna improve your health drastically, like just make it a practice of breathing through your nose. Yes. Like something that simple and straightforward has pretty significant health impacts of like. Like the way that your brain processes breath when it comes through your nose, the way that like, there's more filtering that happens with breath, so the air that gets to your lungs is cleaner. There's just a lot of, um, I haven't read it. I've, I think I actually have it somewhere, but I have not read it yet. Um, I, I should, I should take a look at it. I, I've heard good things about it.  [00:15:01] Jesse Schwamb: At the very least, if you're a Christian, it'll cause you to marvel again. That's how beautifully complex God has made the human body and how it seems entirely impossible that anyone could even logically reasonably conclude that somehow we are just time plus matter, plus chance, and that all these things got worked out. I don't wanna spoil some of the punchline. A part of the book is about this. Breathe through your nose, which you might think was just kind of an innocuous decision. Breathe through your nose, breathe your mouth. How, how different could it be? They actually do an experiment where they plug their noses, the author and somebody else for, uh, several, like 10 days straight. And do all these these things under medical supervision to see what the impact is. And I'll leave you to read it so you can hear that. There's also something fascinating, absolutely fascinating about carbon dioxide and a study that's done where they actually have people inhale a little bit of carbon dioxide and what it does to the body. In other words, like the system that God has put into play to ensure that the body gets the kind of right amount of oxygen that it needs and how it functions when it's given the warning side of carbon dioxide, even when. Your lung capacity and your oxygen, your blood doesn't change. There's a fascinating section on that. So I didn't expect to be this interested in the book and generally I take a little time before I recommend a book. I finished this a couple weeks ago and I'm still thinking about it. So, and I'm trying to put some things into practice, including I try to do some running and for the longest time I just thought, well, when you run, like even at any like moderate speed, like you have to breathe through your mouth, this book challenges some of that. So lo and behold, I went out and started to try just a little bit to see if I could just breathe through my nose. It turns out it's totally possible, like all this time I just thought that was impossible, like God didn't make us that way, and it's actually improving how I feel when I run and the running that I'm able to do. So I am surprised, I, I'm shocked by all this, and it's just as simple as understanding breath. Who would've guessed.  [00:16:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I mean, I've heard it's a great book. I, I, I. It never ceases to amaze that the, the more we look at the human body, the more we look at God's creation, the more we see the fingerprints of our creators. So not, not  [00:17:07] Jesse Schwamb: right.  [00:17:07] Tony Arsenal: Sounds like a great book. I can't recommend it from personal experience, uh, although I've heard very good things.  [00:17:12] Reading Matthew 21 [00:17:12] Tony Arsenal: So, Jesse, I think we should probably just get into it because this is now week three of, uh, one week episode and, uh, we want to wanna dig in and we wanna wrap it up so we can move on to the next best thing out there, which is of course, the parables of Christ. [00:17:26] Jesse Schwamb: Let's get some. So I'm gonna read for us starting in verse 40 because if you've been tracking then you've already been with us through the first part of this parable, and it's notoriously or variously called parable the vine growers, or I kinda like the husband men, just because that's fun to say, and you don't get to drop husband men like very often. But vine dressers, vine growers, vine workers, it's all the same. But here's starting in verse 40. This is after Jesus has already explained the parable. He set it up for them and he's gonna bring for the indictment. So Jesus says, and therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to these vine growers? They said to him, he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and he will rent out the vineyard to other vine growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons. Jesus said to them, did you never read in the scriptures the stone, which the builders rejected? This has become the chief cornerstone. This came about from the Lord in his, marvelous in our eyes. Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust. And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they understood that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to seize him, they feared the crowds because they were guarding him to be a prophet.  [00:18:48] Irony Blind Leaders [00:18:48] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, that, that last little section here is just such, it's like dripping with such irony,  [00:18:53] Jesse Schwamb: so good  [00:18:54] Tony Arsenal: that like they, they are so blinded by their own, um, I dunno, ambition isn't, maybe isn't even the right word, but something in that, that neighborhood, they're so blinded by their desire to. Maintain their own status quo, their own uh, their own status. That they fear the crowds because the crowds hold them to be a prophet,  [00:19:15] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:19:16] Tony Arsenal: When in reality, like there is a prophet in their midst and much more than a prophet, uh, and they can't see it because of their own blindness. So I'm stoked to get into it. This is such, like we said, this is such a, like on the nose, paril, it's crazy. This is so much like, you know, Nathan's, you are the man kind of parable. Like yes, that's right, except there never is a, you are the man moment for them. They never get it, which is. Stunning. Like I, I, it just sort of is like, I don't even know what to make of that. [00:19:41] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. There is like a wild blindness. I've been thinking about that a lot in our past conversations, but it culminates here. These chief priests and elders, I would say strangely, but I think that this is probably true of all of us, and maybe especially me, perhaps not yet, like perceiving themselves to be the vine growers here in view, they render this verdict of severe justice. It seems like you, you wanna say to them? Like, guys, guys, pull up, hold up a second. Yeah. Take a step back before you overreact here, because you're about to condemn yourselves and in the Greek here, this expression like, miserably destroy these wicked men. Or it gets like this double wretched in our translations. Mostly he will bring those wretches to a wretched end. It's this rhetorical intensification. It's incredible. And I, I think there's at least like two truths here. That come to my mind. One is, we've talked about before, but is in line with what you're saying, that the natural conscience, when not even aware of its own complicity, can still discern the justice of God's judgments. So here are these men who are so prone almost, I think what Calvin says elsewhere, like that we have this hidden impulse to identify with justice. Even when we can't see that we are the ones perpetrating something of injustice, still we can't help but cry out. We can't even help but identify it. And here they. Accurately identify it. And even though they're putting themselves exactly in the cross here, they cannot help but basically cry out that how egregious this behavior is of these vine growers that Jesus has basically, you know, created in this hypothetical environment, even still there, they're filled with rage and the rage gets turned on them. So the Pharisees here, of course, function as this unwitting witness to the righteousness of God's wrath against covenant breakers, even though they, they don't see it.  [00:21:29] Kingdom Transfer Talk [00:21:29] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, the second thing I think that comes to my mind, and maybe this is like more to the point, is that. The verse foreshadows this transfer of the kingdom from the Jewish nation to a new people that would bring forth its fruits, which I realize if I bring that up right now, that we've just committed to like six episodes just on that topic probably. But yeah, but like, we're gonna have to come to it because there's so much here. And the phrase of this, like, let out his vineyard unto other vine growers or husbandman, it does to me like anticipate this calling of the Gentiles and the formation of the Christian Church and in, in this way. It's not to me. The abandonment of the elect, remnant of Israel, but it is like the breaking off of the natural branches and then this engrafting of the wild olive shoots that come through like Allah, Romans 11. So it's, it's not like from one nation to another simply, but from like the carnal seed to a spiritual seed gathered out of all the nations, that that's wild. Right? I, I think that's all in view here. And it's like a kind of a crazy thing to say. It's certainly like a wild thing to say, no pun intended. And I imagine like, unexpected thing to say.  [00:22:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:22:40] Supersessionism Clarified [00:22:40] Tony Arsenal: Let's think about that a little bit because I think too, there's, there's almost an element of, um. Man, I'm gonna get a lot of flack for saying this. You're, there's almost like a legitimate replacement theology here, right? Like replacement theology. I got covenant theology, you know, reformed, um, reformed theology often gets slandered as, you know, supersessionism or replacement theology, uh, with this idea that like, it's, it's interest. Uh, you have to have dispensational presuppositions for that phrase to even make sense because like the reformed paradigm is that there is one people of God full stop. And yes, like the identity of the one people of God seems to sort of like morph from the Jewish national people to now like Jews and Gentiles and actually predominantly Gentiles in the scope of like the whole history of the church. But what I mean by this is like, there's a visible church in the Old Testament, in the old, under the old Covenant, and the visible church under the old covenant is the national people of, of Israel. Right. By and large. Right. Um, and there are, there are sort of like Gentile, um, Clingons, not like the Star Trek people, but like gentile, like attachments to that throughout the history of, of Old Testament, um, theology. Um. That visible, that visible identification of this is the people of God being the Jewish people. Uh, these are the people that are the vineyard, the, they're the, the owner or the tenants of the vineyard or the, the visible Jewish people of the geopolitical nation of Israel under the old covenant that does sort of like get superseded by the church in the church age, in the new covenant,  right?  [00:24:24] Tony Arsenal: But where, where Supersessionism or the accusation of Supersessionism goes wrong is that there is this distinction between the visible and invisible church. And that distinction is what prevents us from being like, sort of like true replacement theologians in the way that the, the dispensationalist wanna paint us. So I, I think you're right that there is a lot to say here about the fact that, um, and, and this is where it gets, um. We have to be careful systematically. Right. God, God doesn't have to pivot. He doesn't have like a plan B. It's not like the Gentiles are the plan B, but there is a sense in almost in which the way that this is presented, the way that it appears in the scriptures is actually, yeah, there is almost like this plan B, like there is the geopolitical ethnic people of, of Israel, the Jewish people under the old covenant. And, and they don't do what they're supposed to do. They don't follow the terms of their covenant. They don't accept the kingdom that is bequeathed to them under the terms of the old covenant. And they, they reject that kingdom because of a disobedience. And, and I think what Christ here is narrowing in on is it's not just disobedience, right? It's not sort of like, um, accidental ancillary disobedience. It's not generalized disobedience. It is this sort of like usurpation of God's rightful status as the ruler and king of the nation. That's right. The the people, the, the Pharisees. And the chief priests and the scribes and the Sadducees, they want to be the rulers of the nation. They want to, they, they seem to wanna take the place of God, at least as far as Christ is presenting it. In this, they wanna usurp the kingdom. They want to take the heirs, uh, rightful inheritance, and they want to claim it for themselves. That is not a generalized disobedience, it's a special t type of covenant unfaithfulness that causes God to causes and kind of air quotes that causes God to hand over the kingdom to another people. Right. Partially, I think, uh, we don't need to get into Romans, the Romans 11 stuff, but partially I think because that's actually the way that he's going to ultimately save the Jewish people, right, is by sort of making, making them jealous of the Gentiles. Like there's a, there's a real element of that, that the salvation of the Gentiles is actually for, in some sense is for or unto the salvation of the Jewish people or the, the faithful Jewish remnant that's all here. And, and you can't really get past that in this parable. Um, this is why I think a, a lot of dispensationalist, um, uh, some of the classic dispensational sources would actually see like this, this is not for the Jewish church. This, this is for the Gentiles. This is actually part of the parentheses, um. You know, and, and again, dispensationalist divide all that stuff up differently, but this is a really interesting section for us to talk about that we can't, we can't just gloss over that. [00:27:11] Jesse Schwamb: I certainly don't mean to imply that it's wild because it's unexpected. I think it's wild because interestingly, the Pharisees, the teachers here, they challenge Jesus authority and his response to that is to challenge their covenant faithfulness.  [00:27:24] Tony Arsenal: Right?  [00:27:25] Jesse Schwamb: So it's not just if he turns it around, he uses this opportunity to explain what's going to happen to them as those who are, like you said, were supposed to be representative. And I think critically like the qualifying phrase. That that's using the text here, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. That's like really important because these new vine growers are characterized by their fruitfulness. So this is not like a doctrine of works righteousness, but it's evidential fruit. And that's why, and I had to look this up and the Westminster Confession confession, chapter 16, good works are quote the fruits and evidences of true and lively faith, which I love. I was trying to find that language true and lively faith. So the visible church under that new administration is identified by the fruits of repentance, faith, and obedience worked out by the Holy Spirit. Again, I think that's all that is in view here, that that's a lot to say. But you know, famously, like you've kind of intimated, when we go back to the Old Testament, even we find when the Israelites leave triumphantly from Egypt, that they're accompanied by those outside of Israel. We find that other characters like Grh who continually want to identify with a Yahweh whom God is saving and drawing onto himself and here is kind. Him, Jesus, at least representing as the son of God. That kind of cli climactic view. Speaking from the prophet register again saying, this is what I was saying to Abraham. I said, like from your seed, all these nations in this spiritual sense will be gathered out. So there'll be a single nation as it were in Christ. And even now, I'm telling you, I'm breaking down those boundaries. But I think to your point, importantly Tony, in part because you have failed in the covenant promises and you who were to represent and to heed and to lead, have fallen down. And so now you're gonna trip over this stone and it's going to crush you. And as a result of that, the vine, the vine growers will be, or the vineyard itself will be turned over to those who bear this true and lively fruit.  [00:29:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:29:23] Israel Failure Remnant [00:29:23] Tony Arsenal: There's an interesting, um. There's an interesting dynamic here that actually strikes me as kind of similar. It's a little bit more opaque, but similar to, uh, like Joseph in, uh, in Egypt, right when his brothers come and he says, you meant this for evil, but God meant it for good. Mm-hmm. There's a, there's an element of here, we've talked about the parables. That's sort of like systematic theology in story form. Um, there's a reality here that it's both true, that God always intended for the kingdom to be expansive and, and to expand beyond the nation of Israel. To be this universal, global lowercase c Catholic, universal church universal in the sense that it's not bound by any particular nation, by any particular geopolitical reality. Um. That's true, but it's also true that the reason, uh, on a sort of like horizontal level that that's true is that Israel failed. Right? It so God always intended for Israel to fail, yet Israel is responsible for the fact that they failed. Yes, that's right. Um, and, and, and again, we, we, we sort of commented on this before, like there are some in our broader reformed circles that turn this into a sort of antisemitism, like a sort of hatred for the Jewish people. And I don't think, I don't think that there's any warrant in scripture for that. In fact, I think scripture speaks strongly against that. Is that, um. Not necessarily because there's any particular unique special affection that God has for Israel, like, like the modern Jewish people, but, but that, like racism in general is prohibited by the Bible. But I think where we do need to be clear though, is that there is a real failure. It's a true, genuine failure on the part of the first century Jewish. Leaders and people, um, with a faithful remnant. Right? There was, um, we're, we're getting, you know, we're in the springtime and we've already had, uh, we've already had discussions about this. We've already done Easter, but like there is always conversations around Palm Sunday of like, are the crowds that are following Jesus into, into town screaming, you know, yelling, Hosanna? Is that the same crowds that are yelling crucify him a couple days later? Um, I tend to think like, no, like actually, like the people who are saying crucified, crucify Christ are probably like the Jews who live in Jerusalem or like the, primarily the religious leaders. There's a whole host of Jewish believers and kind of the hoy pallo, the, the people out in the country that absolutely follow Jesus. Like they follow him as the Messiah. They, they confess him in many cases. They convince him to be, um, they confess him to be God, to to be the savior, to be the, the figure from Daniel seven, the son of man. Um. There's a reality in which the Jewish remnant absolutely recognize Christ and they persist in the church, right? The earliest Christians were all Jews, and you know, there was a few Gentiles along the way, you know, and maybe not even Gentiles like Samaritans. I don't even know if you would call them gentiles. They're kind of this midway point, but in Jewish gentil. But there are people throughout Christ's ministry, right? Cornelius or not Cornelius, the Centurion recognizes that this is the son of God. Like there are people, the s Phoenician woman, there are people who are not part of Israel proper, who even in the, in the midst of Christ's ministry are recognizing him as God and as Messiah and as the savior of the world. But, but by and large, the earliest Christian movement was Jewish people. It was the faithful remnant of, of Israel who recognized that their Messiah had come. That is true. And at the same time. The, probably the majority, and especially the rulers and the leaders of the Israel, you know, the Jewish faith in the first century absolutely rejected him. And this is what I, this is what I think is wild, is I think sometimes we think that, um, the prophecies and the understanding of Christ and what the messiah, who the Messiah was to be and what to expect, we think of those as like super obscured and super hidden until Christ comes and then all of a sudden they're really obvious. Christ doesn't seem to treat them that way. Right? Right. He tells this parable and they rightly identify that, and this is a, this is such a thinly veiled parable. Like this is like, you killed the prophets. You're going to kill me. And there's going to be consequences. Like he practically says that outright. Um. He treats that as like they should obviously know this, right? The, have you never read in the scriptures, the stone, the builder rejected has become the cornerstone, right? This was the lord's doing. It is, and it is marvelous in their eyes that have you never read?  [00:34:06] Decree in Rejection [00:34:06] Tony Arsenal: That is a, that's a rhetorical question with the implied answer of, of course, you've read exactly like he's not, he's not teaching them something that he anticipated is new to them. He maybe is teaching them something that he anticipated they maybe you didn't recognize. But actually I think probably like, uh, there probably were many among them that were like, oh yeah, we are doing this. But then almost like we're powerless to stop themselves from moving forward in that.  [00:34:32] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:34:32] Tony Arsenal: Sort of like wicked plan. [00:34:34] Jesse Schwamb: Right. Yeah. And I think we could extend that as well to say that this rejection of Christ by this Jewish leadership, which of course was a incredible failure, like you're saying, it wasn't an accident, it wasn't an unforeseen tragedy. So just like interestingly in Acts four in his sermon where Peter quotes from the same Old Testament passage about Christ being the cornerstone, you know, it was prophesied long before. And so the doctrine of God's eternal decree, I think finds v vivid illustration even here. This is all the Lord's doing. Yeah. And even the wicked rejection of the Messiah is serving this purpose, this sovereign purpose of God's great exaltation. And so it's fascinating, and we should marvel at the fact that, again, like God means what he says when he says like He uses what is weak to overcome that which is strong, or to embarrass the strong, he uses that which seems foolish. To make the wise themselves, the ones who are actually foolish in the same way.  [00:35:29] Cornerstone Unites Church [00:35:29] Jesse Schwamb: This very stone, which men in their malice cast aside on that day. God is in his wisdom setting as this chief cornerstone. And I love like that idea of this phrase, this head of the corner denoting that amazing preeminence of Christ, that Christ is not merely included in the building of the new Covenant church. He is its chief and constituent stone that joining together both like the Jew and the Gentile, finally into one structure. And that's really, I think to your point, that's the great mystery of the hidden ages from the past. That that's the thing which Christ is bringing to like this grand display, like out on the stage in the open, in front of everybody. He's drawing it up, he's calling it to account. And so in that way, the same Jesus that was rejected by men is in God's account of inestimable value. And that should be like, I think, familiar to most of us because like there a form tradition has always insisted that. The true theology always issues in doxology and the cross and exaltation of Christ are not merely these facts, which we give these intellectual ascent, but we, we confess them as mysteries which provoke us to adoration of who God is. It's the excellency of Christ expounding at length, like the wondrous conjunction of Christ's humiliation and his exaltation, which finds its pattern here, rejected by men, glorified by God.  [00:36:50] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:36:52] Works Covenant Failures [00:36:52] Tony Arsenal: And, and this is, um, we, we commented in our first, uh, episode on this par ball. This is not isolated to just the rulers of Israel at the time of Christ, right? This is in reality, kind of like a reflection of every failure of the covenant of works. In some sense, every failure to hold the covenant of works boils down to an attempt to make oneself, God. Right. This was Adam's failure in the garden. Um, Eve, Eve was the first person to eat the fruit, but Adam, Adam was responsible for that and he, he also ate the fruit and they, they did so in part because they thought it was useful to make them like God and, and in an illegitimate fashion. And they knew it was an illegitimate fashion. It's not as though Adam and Eve suddenly were like, maybe we can eat the fruit. Maybe like we actually are fine to do it. Like they knew it was still forbidden. Right. They did it anyways. And the Pharisees here, um, are in a real attempt. Um, they are trying to take the role of Messiah for the people. They're trying to be the savior of the people in sort of shepherding and guiding them into this like. Ultra legalistic Puritan, like puritanical in the worst sense, um, kind of approach to the law. Um, this is the, the story of Old Testament Israel, right? What is the first thing that the Israelites do? Um, at Mount Sinai? The first thing they do is try to fashion gods so that they have a tame God that they can control and that they can actually be God's over. So I think this is really key and, and this is where it becomes practical for us, is that. I think we always are faced with a choice, right? There's, there's obviously those who are Christ, who the son is set free. He's set free indeed, and they will never not be his people. Like you never become not justified. If you were justified, you always forever more are justified. Justified is a final. It's, it's the future judgment of God's people dragged and dropped into the present and applied. It's the righteousness of Christ applied. So there, there's never a time where that righteousness is like removed or unapplied, but we are constantly faced with a choice as to whether we want to be the kind of people who render our fruit unto the Lord, uh, as the faithful, the sort of the implied faithful tenants that are going to be brought forward when the, the unfaithful tenants are replaced. Or do we wanna be the people that reap wicked fruit and keep for ourselves? And I think that's, that's really the thing. Like we're either gonna rep. Fruit of wickedness, or we're gonna reap fruit of righteousness. And the only thing to do with fruit of righteousness is surrender it to the Lord. But we often are faced with that choice, like, are we gonna reap our own wicked fruit and keep it all to ourselves right, uh, to our own detriment? Or are we gonna go ahead and be the faithful tenants that give the Lord what he deserves?  [00:39:46] Kingdom Transfer Explained [00:39:46] Jesse Schwamb: We're seeing so much of the simplicity of God here that like you and I have said so many times before that his loving kindness, his long suffering ness is his righteousness, is his justice, is his wrath. And so I think it's helpful, again, to remind ourselves that we're, we are talking, or he specifically is speaking of the kingdom of God here. And again referring to this visible administration of the covenant of grace, not to the inward and invisible kingdom of saving grace, which as you just said, can never be lost from those who possess it, which by the way is a really important distinctive of reform theology. There are many that would disagree with that statement, and I think really much to their harm in, in disagreement with the scriptures themselves, this one in particular, but it is this external administration, the privileges, the ordinances, the oracles of God. That is being transferred from the Jewish nation as a corporate body to a new and broader people of God. And because I know that sounds very extreme, I did look up Calvin and his commentary on this and let me read what he says because this is interesting. I think even this could possibly mis be misunderstood. But here's Calvin who can say it better than I. He says, quote by these words, he means that God would deprive the Jews of the honor and the privilege of being his peculiar people and would call the Gentiles that out of them he might form a church end quote. And going back to what you said earlier, I'm with you. I, I. I mean, this is not, I think as some have wrongly concluded, like replacement theology in like a wooden sense. I, I see this still as like this historical redemptive transition from the typological administration of the old covenant to the eschatological fulfillment of the new. And the elect remnant of Israel is not cast off, but the national like typological privileges are being transferred to the Catholic church, gathered from all nations. And in that, I really do see this wonderful confluence of God's loving kindness, his, his fidelity to the promises that he's made and his wrath being manifested all at once. And somehow Jesus, of course, in complete perfection, can bring that all to bear in this tiny little story.  [00:41:51] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And and isn't it just like the master teacher to like, put all of this baked into this? I mean, that's right. We think of this as like a long parable, like I think,  [00:42:02] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:42:02] Tony Arsenal: I think like it's, it's amazing how we think of parables as, you know, like this is a short one. A short one is a couple sentences, a long one is like a half a dozen sentences. Like, and of course like Christ is teaching broader than this. He's teaching more than this. Just, this is what's recorded by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. This is what Matthews preserved for us.  [00:42:22] Stone Breaks or Crushes [00:42:22] Tony Arsenal: But you're right, there's so much baked into this little parable and I think, um, there's something to be said about this idea of like. Not only do those who smash against the, the rock, the, the cornerstone, those who smash against the rock, like those who who fall on the rock are broken to pieces, but also the rock falls on others and smashes them to pieces. Right? And, and there's something to be said about the fact that, and I'm not exactly sure how I wanna articulate this, but it's only those who like recognize the proper place of the rock and don't either let it fall on them or don't smash themselves against it. You know, we always joke about like running through a wall. Like this is not a wall you're gonna run through. Like you're gonna smash into this wall and it's gonna crush you. And if you are, if you're not properly assigning the cornerstone it's placed, right? The cornerstone is, is the stone that's placed in the foundation of a building that all the other stones find their orientation and their proper alignment based on. [00:43:26] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:43:26] Tony Arsenal: You might think of this sometimes. I've heard this articulated as like the, the arch stone. I think it's a little bit different than that. Um, but it, the, the idea is the same, right? Like there's a stone in an arch. If you think of like a classic Roman arch, you have these piles of stones until you put the final arch stone in. That, in that stone is what makes the arch stable. Until that point, either side can fall, but if you don't properly set that arch stone where it's supposed to be, then the whole thing is gonna crush you. It's gonna fall down on top of you at some point. I think this is a little different. This is the cornerstone of a, this is more like the cornerstone of a building. This is the stone that the rest of the building, building is oriented against and is aligned with. If you get that wrong, then you have a, you have like a crooked wall, a wall that's not set, that's not straight. It's not stable. What this is saying and what this, this prophecy right from, from Psalm one 10, I think I should probably look it up, but I haven't yet. But this prophecy that Christ is referring to this, this prophetic statement in the Psalms that he's assuming the audience is familiar with, right? I think that's a really important point. Like he's not only assuming that they're familiar with it, there's rhetorical force of kind of like, of course you understand this principle that there is a cornerstone coming. There is something or someone who is coming that all other things will be measured against. And if you're either in alignment with this, with this person who is coming or you're out of alignment with reality, this thing is understood by them. It just is so critical and I think like the, the, a lot of the parables don't have explanations built into them. Some of them do. We've talked about some of them. A lot of them don't, this one does, but it's kind of like a really surprising way to explain it. And there's so much, um, the more that I look at this, the more we talk about it, this really is so similar to David and Nathan, right? Right. When with the, the affair with Bathsheba, he is saying to the Pharisees, look, you're the man. Like, you're the one here. You're the guy. You guys are the wicked tenants that are gonna, you've killed the prophets. Right? Um, I'm losing my, my timeline a little bit, but John the Baptist either had been executed or would be executed shortly at this point, right? So like the, the most recent prophet either was already killed or, or Christ knew of course he was going to be killed. Um, he's saying, look, you guys are the ones that are doing this and you're going to kill me. Right. And this is obviously what the prophecy is, that you think you're going to come against the cornerstone, but in reality you're going to shatter yourself upon me. You think you're gonna come against me, I'm going to crush you. And rather than say, you know, as ba, you know, as David does, where he repents, he, he fasts and he, he refuses to eat. He's, he's in mourning over both the loss of his infant, but, but more so over his own sin, I think is the picture the text gives us. Um, he's mourning trying to uh, sort of like reverse God's decision, but there's a genuine repentance to it, right? That's where we get Psalm 51, like creating, clean me a clean heart, oh God, renew a right spirit in me. There's none of that for the Pharisees, there's none of that for the sadist of the chief priests. They just continue to smash themselves against this rock, not recognizing that it's actually the rock that is crushing them. [00:47:05] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's, it's a bit like, I'm gonna speak like a little maybe beyond my depth here, but there's a little bit of like that Nathan, like Strategem, and then this is where I'm outside my own experience. And then a little bit like maybe like WWE the rock in terms of like. If you want some come and get some, right? It's a little of both. And of course the passage ends very tragically, well ends humorously by them, you know, saying that at some point they were like, they understood in these parables, again, this is one of three of the same kind of topic of variety, but that Jesus was referring to them, which is funny. You wanna be like, yeah, it took a, took a long enough, I guess, guys, but you finally got it. But then that last sentence of like, they still sought to kill him. So to your point, even after all of this, there wasn't repentance. And we do get these, I think, two very distinct judgements that are depicted here, which you've already kinda led us into this first, like, whoever shall fall on the stone shall be broken. You know, to me, I think that's invoking this idea that in this life, there we are, we can be brought to brokenness through the gospel and to fall upon Christ. And repentance. And faith is to be broken in self, in pride and self-righteous. It's a breaking that does lead to healing. But this second judgment, you know the one, but on whomever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder, grind him to dust, I mean. Man, think about what a vivid image that is. I mean, that's like the more terrible of the two. That that's like the, yeah. Final Es logical judgment of those who persist in unbelief and it, it admits there's like no remedy. So there are only two ways to relate to Christ. You either fall upon him willingly in faith and repentance, which is painful, but it is saving, you know, to have him fall upon us in judgment is final in damning, and so that's what Christ presents here. [00:48:48] Psalm 118 in Context [00:48:48] Jesse Schwamb: It's, it's both of these things and you're right, it is brilliant that he goes to Psalm one 18 even that as a setup, because as you've kind of already said, I love to think, of course that's, can you manner the tone in which this was said to these scribes and Pharisees? Because of course the, the secondary indictment here is like, listen, you guys who like your great pride is that, you know, the scriptures really well. Have you read this part is familiar to you. Yeah. Can you tell me where that is? So like, we, we should go there just, just quickly. This is Psalm one 18 because I think that here again is, as I'm hearing it in context. There are some verses surrounding this that I think we might be surprised that they come right on the heels of this idea of the stone. So just a couple verses. In Psalm one 18 being in verse 22, the stone, which the builders rejected, has become the chief cornerstone. This is from Yahweh. It is marvelous in our eyes. Here's the verses that we might not recognize. Come right after it. This is the day which Yahweh has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it. Oh, Yahweh, save. Oh, Yahweh, succeed. Blessed is the one who comes in the name of Yahweh. We have blessed you from the house of Yahweh. Yahweh is God, and he has given us light by the festival sacrifice with corns to the horns of the altar. You are my God, and I give thanks to you. You are my God, and I exalt you. Give thanks to Yahweh for his good, for his loving kindness endures forever. And so this idea that there's rejoicing in which day, I mean, usually we kinda say that it's like, well, it's a beautiful day out. It's the Lord's day. This is the day that Yahweh is like that. That's true. But also here in particular, it is this blessed day of Yahweh giving the stone, which the builders reject and which has become the chief cornerstone. And that stone is some will run headlong into and shipwreck their lives and others will be crushed underneath it. And guess what? This is the day which Yahweh has made and we're gonna rejoice and be glad in that.  [00:50:41] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:50:43] Mark's Angle on Fear [00:50:43] Tony Arsenal: The other thing I think, you know, we. Should, um, maybe not spend any time on, 'cause we're at like, out, like minute 50 of a 60 minute podcast. But just going to, to Mark's version of this parable real quick. Um, starting in verse, uh, this is chapter 12, verse 12. It says, and they were seeking to arrest him, but feared the people for, they perceived that he had told the parable against them. So they left him and went away. And the, the main difference here, the reason I'm reading this is Mark chooses a d. Concerning them. The verb is, or the preposition is Perry. So it's kind of like this idea that he was, he was sort of speaking around them. He was talking about them. Mark uses the, the preposition, proce, which is not, um, not against, in like the same, uh, direct sense. We might use the word against. That would be something like Kada. Um, but he's, he's speaking this parable towards them or to them, um, against them. He's, he's directing the parable at them. And this is, this is, we, we commented on this a little bit in the, the first episode here. Um, he is speaking to the crowds. But he's telling the parable about or against or concerning the Pharisees and the scribes, and they perceive this, right. The, the gospels here don't say that the crowds perceive this. Right. And I think that's key. Like the Pharisees basically look at this and say, uh, we better get this under control because he's talking about us. Right, right. Like, I'm just picturing Paul Washer's. I'm not trying to say Paul Washer is a Pharisee, although some people would probably make that connection. But like I'm, I'm just hearing Paul Washer's voice saying like, I don't know why you're clapping. I'm talking about you. He's speaking to the Pharisees here. And it's interesting because Matthew associates the, the, uh, Pharisees. Cowardice in acting against Christ, uh, because they fear the crowds and because the crowds believe Christ is a parable or is a prophet Mark associates. And again, both of these things are true, right? This is holy scripture. This is inspired, these are not contradictory accounts. This is facets of the same diamond. Mark associates this with, they fear the crowds. Um, because they had taken him. They, they understood that the parable was being spoken against them, right? So there's this element that the Pharisees are not only understanding that the, the parable is about them, they feared them because the crowds believe that Christ is a prophet and that prophet is speaking this parable against them, right? So like they're, they're recognizing full on that it's only a matter of time before the, the general population, the general people that are listening to Christ recognize that he's overturning. Not only the Pharisees, the entire geopolitical nation of Israel, he's overturning the ethnic based reality, the geopolitical based reality, that God's people have a zip code and that zip code is Jerusalem. That zip code is this little si, this little tract of land the size of like Vermont and New Hampshire in the Mediterranean, like off the Mediterranean Sea. He's overturning that. And the, the Pharisees, the educated people, the, the Sadducees, the chief priests, the rulers, they recognize it's only a matter of time before the people understand what Christ is doing. They, they follow him as a prophet and this is what he's prophesying. And

Preached on Sunday the 17th of May, 2026.John 17:1-517 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

Preached on Sunday the 10th of May, 2026.‭‭Psalm‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭“O Lord, who shall sojourn in your tent? Who shall dwell on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly and does what is right and speaks truth in his heart; who does not slander with his tongue and does no evil to his neighbor, nor takes up a reproach against his friend; in whose eyes a vile person is despised, but who honors those who fear the Lord; who swears to his own hurt and does not change; who does not put out his money at interest and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved.”Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

RBNet Coordinator Mark Chanski interviews Justin Miller, Pastor of First Baptist Church of Puxico Missouri, about three oases on the Reformed Baptist landscape: 1) Experimental Preaching that Cultivates Heart Dealings, 2) Sola Scriptura Theologizing and Thinking, and 3) Law and Grace: Whole Counsel of God Continuity.

Two Protestants can sound airtight when they critique Eastern Orthodoxy together, until you ask a simple question: do they even agree on what a church is? Jeremy Jeremiah of Cloud of Witnesses pulls apart a popular interview between Dr. Gavin Ortlund and Joshua Schooping, author of Disillusioned, a former Orthodox priest who is now a Lutheran pastor, and we respond point by point from an Orthodox perspective with church history, theology, and plain logic.We spend real time on the practical consequences of Protestant ecclesiology, not just the slogans. If a Lutheran pastor shaped by the Augsburg Confession would refuse communion to a Reformed Baptist who follows the 1689 London Baptist Confession, what does that say about claims of easy unity in the “invisible church”? We talk Eucharist theology, baptism debates, and how sacramental disagreement turns into competing definitions of a “true church.”Then we tackle the biggest claims head-on: Has the Eastern Orthodox Church truly remained unchanged? What counts as doctrine versus liturgical development? How should Christians read Nicaea II and the language around icons and veneration? And when Marian prayers are quoted as proof that Mary replaces Jesus, we slow down and read them in context as devotional, poetic language about intercession, while keeping Christ's saving work central.We respond to a now Protestant discussion critiquing and frankly attacking Eastern Orthodoxy and explain why its framing collapses when you examine Protestant disagreements on the sacraments, the church, and salvation. We also defend Orthodox claims about continuity by separating minor liturgical development from core doctrinal stability across church history.• framing the interview as a strictly Protestant critique of Orthodoxy• contrasting Lutheran and Reformed Baptist ecclesiology on communion, baptism, and sacraments• challenging the idea that Protestantism offers a unified “invisible church” solution• addressing “one true church” anxiety and how mercy and salvation are discussed• separating liturgical variation from doctrinal continuity over 2,000 years• defending icons with early church evidence and the witness of ancient apostolic churches• responding to Nicaea II claims about forced icon veneration• interpreting Marian prayers as poetic intercession language rather than replacement of Christ• pushing back on claims that the gospel is absent from Orthodox worshipIf you care about Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestant apologetics, apostolic succession, icons, Mariology, and what it means to belong to the historic visible church, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who's debating Orthodoxy, and leave a review telling us where you agree or disagree.Two Protestants critique Orthodoxy, but can they even agree on baptism or communion? We break down the hidden contradiction and what it means for “the true church” claims. Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdhPlease prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses: https://www.patreon.com/c/CloudofWitnessesFind Cloud of Witnesses on Instagram, X.com, Facebook, and TikTok.Audio: https://cloudofwitnessesradio.buzzsprout.comPlease leave a comment with your thoughts!

Preached on Sunday the 3rd of May, 2026 followed by the Lord's Supper.‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭“Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”Intro Music by Julius H. from Pixabay Outro Music by PianoAmor from Pixabay

April 24, 2026FARSHID REZAEE,an Iranian by birth, raised in thereligion of Islam, & saved by theSovereign Grace of a Holy God,today a Reformed Baptist & CampusMinister with the organization called“PRISM”, which stands for “PittsburghRegion International Student Ministries”,who will address: “HOW GOD's SOVEREIGN PROVI-DENCE LED a NEWSPAPER in IRANto PRINT the SERMON on the MOUNT,LEADING a MUSLIM to JESUS CHRIST& SAVING HIS SOUL!!” Subscribe: iTunes TuneIn Android RSS Feed Listen:

Jacob Winograd, host of the Biblical Anarchy Podcast, takes the Theocompass.com theology compass test live — answering 30 questions on the Trinity, Scripture, baptism, eschatology, and Christian ethics. The test scores him 67% Presbyterian Church in America. The problem: he's a Reformed Baptist who rejects infant baptism. This episode reveals what the theology compass test gets right, where its categories break down, and what a libertarian, amillennial, partial preterist Reformed Baptist actually believes.Full Episode Notes at BiblicalAnarchyPodcast.comThe Biblical Anarchy Podcast is part of the Christians For Liberty Network, a project of the Libertarian Christian Institute. Audio cleaned up with the Podsworth App!https://podsworth.comUse code LCI50 for 50% off your first order at Podsworth.com to clean up your voice recordings and also support LCI!

Each week, Pastor Keith Foskey and his wife Jennifer answer email questions about ministry, the bible, and theology from all around the world as well as engaging with their live audience in the comments. Come join the fun! Questions and Timestamps:Superior theology, cigars and superior soda TIME 52:35Lutheran vs Presbyterian claims to “superior theology” TIME 55:35Choosing writing topics as a pastor, comedian, and author TIME 57:09Practical advice for evangelism leadership TIME 1:02:24Denominational differences between Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians TIME 1:05:30Identifying a misplaced historical passage TIME 1:08:05Baptismal regeneration and the Churches of Christ TIME 1:13:00Lack of desire for baptism and assurance of election TIME 1:20:52Baptism timing and location TIME 1:25:48Church discipline within family relationships TIME 1:37:55Partnership with those holding false doctrine TIME 1:43:03Divine council theology and Michael Heiser TIME 1:47:50Brian Sauvé and theological influence through music TIME 1:53:52Secondary causes and God's glory TIME 1:57:45How does God discipline believers?  TIME 2:00:49Christian response to immigration and national stability TIME 2:05:07Support the Show: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/Yourcalvinisthttps://www.TinyBibles.comYou can get the smallest Bible available on the market, which can be used for all kinds of purposes, by visiting TinyBibles.com and when you buy, use the coupon code KEITH for a discount.Love Coffee? Want the Best? Get a free bag of Squirrelly Joe's Coffee by clicking on this link: https://www.Squirrellyjoes.com/yourcalvinistor use coupon code "Keith" for 20% off anything in the storeDominion Wealth Strategies Visit them at https://www.dominionwealthstrategists.comhttp://www.Reformed.Moneyand let them know we sent you! Spiraling Impressions — Custom Stickers — Facebook: Spiraling Impressions Website: spiralingimpressions.com.COUPON CODE: YourCalvinist (gets 10% 0ff)https://www.HighCallingFitness.comHealth, training, and nutrition coaching all delivered to you online by confessionally reformed bodybuilders and strength athletes.Visit us at https://www.KeithFoskey.comIf you need a great website, check out https://www.fellowshipstudios.com

Responding to questions from listeners about the movie "A Great Awakening," is it good and should you go see it, what is the CREC, and could a Reformed Baptist church join it? Visit wwutt.com for all our videos!

"My advice is to be careful what you read online. I have found that even resources claiming to represent Reformed Baptist views are often very selective in their sources. For example, if a work lays claim to a Baptistic historical view but doesn't include Roger Williams or Isaac Backus in any meaningful way, it shouldn't be taken seriously. Men like Murton and Williams are the historical core of the idea of soul liberty and cannot be ignored if one wants to reach credible conclusions." -Ron MillerFor more information, visit CBTSeminary.org

"My advice is to be careful what you read online. I have found that even resources claiming to represent Reformed Baptist views are often very selective in their sources. For example, if a work lays claim to a Baptistic historical view but doesn't include Roger Williams or Isaac Backus in any meaningful way, it shouldn't be taken seriously. Men like Murton and Williams are the historical core of the idea of soul liberty and cannot be ignored if one wants to reach credible conclusions." -Ron Miller For more information, visit CBTSeminary.org  

What separates a confessional Reformed Baptist church from a Calvinistic Baptist church that follows teachers like John Piper or John MacArthur? In this conversation the pastors work through why Calvinism, narrowly defined as five points, does not capture what it means to be Reformed, and why confessional standards rather than gifted personalities mark out these churches. Ask FGBC is a digital ministry providing biblical, pastoral, and confessional answers to real questions submitted by believers, seekers, and those wrestling with assurance. Recorded with Pastor Jim Butler, Dr Richard Barcellos, and Pastor David Charles on April 9, 2026. Submit your own question and see previous topics: https://www.freegrace.ca/ask There is an option to do it anonymously. Videos are available on SermonAudio, Youtube and Facebook. Please like & share on our social media profiles as well to get the word out and distribute further! Church Website: https://www.freegrace.ca

Are Reformed Baptists more Baptist or more Reformed? Pastor David Charles answers by tracing the Reformed Baptist confession as a full flowering of the Protestant Reformation, and explains why the emphasis shifts depending on who is in the conversation. Ask FGBC is a digital ministry providing biblical, pastoral, and confessional answers to real questions submitted by believers, seekers, and those wrestling with assurance. Recorded with Pastor Jim Butler, Dr Richard Barcellos, and Pastor David Charles on April 9, 2026. Submit your own question and see previous topics: https://www.freegrace.ca/ask There is an option to do it anonymously. Videos are available on SermonAudio, Youtube and Facebook. Please like & share on our social media profiles as well to get the word out and distribute further! Church Website: https://www.freegrace.ca

Pastor Jim Butler is joined by Dr. Richard Barcellos and Pastor David Charles for 8 theological questions (episodes #65–#72) covering Reformed Baptist history, Calvinism, covenant theology, biblical theology, and Lord's Day worship—all from a confessional Reformed Baptist perspective rooted in Scripture and the 1689 London Baptist Confession. Recorded April 9, 2026, on the eve of the Confessing the Faith Conference 2026 in Chilliwack, BC.

Where do Reformed Baptists actually come from? Many assume Particular Baptists are simply a refined branch of the Anabaptists. The historical record tells a different story. Pastor Jim Butler sits down with two of the Confessing the Faith Conference 2026 speakers, Pastor David Charles and Dr. Richard Barcellos, to trace the real origins of the Particular Baptists, why the first London Baptist Confession worked to distinguish them from the Anabaptists, and what recent historical scholarship has uncovered from the primary sources. Ask FGBC is a digital ministry providing biblical, pastoral, and confessional answers to real questions submitted by believers, seekers, and those wrestling with assurance. Recorded with Pastor Jim Butler, Dr. Richard Barcellos, and Pastor David Charles on April 9, 2026. Submit your own question and see previous topics: https://www.freegrace.ca/ask There is an option to do it anonymously. Videos are available on SermonAudio, Youtube and Facebook. Please like & share on our social media profiles as well to get the word out and distribute further! Church Website: https://www.freegrace.ca

"My advice is to be careful what you read online. I have found that even resources claiming to represent Reformed Baptist views are often very selective in their sources. For example, if a work lays claim to a Baptistic historical view but doesn't include Roger Williams or Isaac Backus in any meaningful way, it shouldn't be taken seriously. Men like Murton and Williams are the historical core of the idea of soul liberty and cannot be ignored if one wants to reach credible conclusions." -Ron Miller For more information, visit CBTSeminary.org  

April 7, 2026SAMUEL FARAG,an Oriental Orthodox convert toReformed Baptist theologyANDCRAIG TRUGLIA,a Reformed Baptist convert toEastern Orthodoxy, who will bothaddress:“IS the EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCHthe CHURCH JESUS CHRIST FOUND-ED?: A REFORMED BAPTIST & EAS-TERN ORTHODOX CONVERSATION” Subscribe: iTunes TuneIn Android RSS Feed Listen:

In this episode of G220 Radio, we continue our open and respectful discussion with Catholic theology writer and speaker Cee Vee as we tackle one of the most foundational questions dividing Reformed Baptists and the Roman Catholic Church: When there is a doctrinal dispute, what is the final, binding, infallible authority that settles it? Is it: • Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura)? or • Scripture + Sacred Tradition + the Magisterium? This is not about personalities. This is not about tribal loyalty. This is about authority. This is about the gospel. This is about how truth is known and guarded. Join us live and engage in the discussion respectfully in the chat. Stay Baptist. Stay Bold. G220 stands for Galatians 2:20.

Order “Offensive Christianity” here - https://offensivechristianitybook.com/jchasedavis.comSupport the show!! - https://www.patreon.com/chasedavisGo to ionlayer.com and use code FPT to get $100 off your first kit. Seven Titans Jeans - https://seven-titans.com/discount/PROOFLegacy Profits Club - https://www.skool.com/legacyprofitsclub/about?ref=1b0c2acb5f0d4781be13ed56801c8fbbFounders Seminary https://www.foundersseminary.org/Covenant Community Church, Newark, OH (Josh Tinkham's church) http://www.covenantcommunitychurchofnewark.com/Josh Tinkham's episode on A Brief History of Power with Dr. Adam Koontz (The episode where Adam Koontz interviews Josh on Baptist confessions, associationalism, and the sacraments — this is the "Adam's podcast" you referenced) https://abriefhistoryofpower.com/Hans Boersma, Heavenly Participation (Amazon) https://amzn.to/4bx7dS3John Webster, The Domain of the Word (Amazon) (Contains the "Curiosity" essay Josh referenced, contrasting curiosity and studiousness) https://amzn.to/4rxzQEoSummaryWhat does it mean to fully subscribe to a confession? Is the Lord's Supper just a memorial? And should we baptize young children? Chase sits down with Prof. Josh Tinkham — professor at Founders Seminary and pastor of Covenant Community Church in Ohio — for a deep conversation on confessional subscription, the 1689 London Baptist Confession, professing (not regenerate) church membership, the real presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper, and a Baptist theology of baptism. Whether you're new to confessional Christianity or deep in the weeds, this one will sharpen you.Support the showSign up for the Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/chasedavisFollow Full Proof Theology on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/fullprooftheology/Follow Full Proof Theology on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fullprooftheology/

From congregational autonomy to regional presbyteries to episcopal oversight, Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Walter Strickland, and Bob Hiller explain the scriptural reasoning and practical structures that shape how ecclesiology functions in their traditions. PARTNER WITH US - https://solamedia.org/partner/?sc=AS2502V When you become a partner today, you'll receive two remarkable books as our thanks: Rediscovering the Holy Spirit by Dr. Michael Horton and Praying with Jesus by Pastor Adriel Sanchez. We believe these books can guide you into a clearer understanding of the Spirit's work and a richer prayer life. FOLLOW US YouTube | Instagram | X/Twitter | Facebook | Newsletter WHO WE ARE Sola is home to White Horse Inn, Core Christianity, Modern Reformation, and Theo Global. Our mission is to serve today's global church by producing resources for reformation grounded in the historic Christian faith. Our vision is to see reformation in hearts, homes, and churches around the world. Learn more: https://solamedia.org/

A rising tide of antisemitism is emerging in Reformed Baptist and Presbyterian circles. Jacob Tanner joins Kevin Swanson to discuss the Antioch Declaration, why he signed, and why antisemitism is a real threat to the church today.

Preachers & Preaching is pleased to introduce Pastor Jonathan Goodman and Emmaus Road Reformed Baptist Church. Meeting at Colorado Springs Christian School on Austin Bluffs Parkway... learn more at https://www.emmausroadreformed.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is a Reformed Baptist Church? Pamphlets, booklets, and sermon series have been produced to answer this question for decades. Although their presence online may indicate large numbers, this would be mistaken. If the visible church is likened to a tree, how did the Reformed Baptist branch shoot out? What is the good, the bad, and the ugly, especially in North America in the last and present century? Have you visited a Reformed Baptist local church before? What was its ethos? Gird your loins as we scratch the surface on what a Reformed Baptist Church is.

Join us for a conversation on EFS with Kyle Claunch, Associate Professor of Christian Theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.   Detailed Analytical Outline: "Everything You Need to Know About EFS and The Trinity | Kyle Claunch | #100" This outline structures the podcast episode chronologically by timestamp, providing a summary of content, key theological arguments, analytical insights (e.g., strengths of positions, biblical/theological connections, and implications for Trinitarian doctrine), and notable quotes. The discussion centers on Eternal Functional Submission (EFS, also termed Eternal Submission of the Son [ESS] or Eternal Relations of Authority and Submission [ERAS]), its biblical basis, critiques, and broader Trinitarian implications. Host Sean Demars interviews Kyle Claunch, a theologian offering a non-EFS perspective rooted in classical Trinitarianism (e.g., Augustine, Athanasius). The tone is conversational, humble, and worship-oriented, emphasizing the doctrine's gravity (per Augustine: "Nowhere else is a mistake more dangerous"). Introduction and Setup (00:10–01:48) Content Summary: Episode opens with music and host introduction. Sean Demars welcomes first-time guest Kyle Claunch (noting a prior unreleased recording). Light banter references mutual acquaintance Jim Hamilton (a repeat guest) and a breakfast discussion on Song of Solomon. Transition to topic: the Trinity, with humorous acknowledgment of its complexity. Key Points: Shoutout to Hamilton as the "three-timer" on the show; playful goal of featuring Kenwood elders repeatedly. Tease of future episodes on Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes, Psalms. Analytical Insights: Establishes relational warmth and insider Reformed/Baptist context (e.g., Kenwood Baptist Church ties). Frames Trinity discussion as high-stakes yet accessible, aligning with podcast's "Room for Nuance" ethos—nuanced, non-polemical engagement. Implications: Builds trust for dense theology, reminding listeners of communal discipleship. Notable Quote: "Nothing better to talk about... Nowhere else is a mistake more dangerous, Augustine says about the doctrine of the trinity." (01:33) Opening Prayer (01:48–02:29) Content Summary: Claunch prays for accurate representation of God, protection from error, and edification of listeners (believers to worship, unbelievers to Christ). Key Points: Gratitude for knowing God as Father through Son by Spirit; plea for words and meditations to be acceptable (Psalm 19:14 echo). Analytical Insights: Models Trinitarian piety—prayer invokes all persons, underscoring episode's theme of relational unity over hierarchical submission. Strengthens devotional framing, countering potential abstraction in doctrine. Notable Quote: "May the saints who hear this be drawn to worship. May those that don't know you be drawn to want to know you through your son Jesus." (02:07–02:29) Interview Origin and Personal Context (02:29–04:18) Content Summary: Demars recounts how Hamilton recommended Claunch as a counterpoint to Owen Strawn's EFS views (from a prior episode on theological retrieval). Demars shares his wavering stance on EFS (initial acceptance, rejection, ambivalence—like amillennialism) and seeks Claunch's help to "land" biblically. Key Points: EFS as a debated topic in evangelical circles; Claunch's approach ties to retrieval. Demars' vulnerability: Desire for settled conviction on God's self-revelation. Analytical Insights: Highlights EFS debate's live-wire status in Reformed theology (post-2016 surge via Ware, Grudem). Demars' "help me land" plea humanizes the host, inviting listeners into personal theological pilgrimage. Implication: Doctrine as transformative, not merely academic—echoes Augustine's "discovery more advantageous" (later referenced). Notable Quote: "Part of this is really just being like dear brother Kyle help me like land where I need to land on this." (03:53) Defining EFS/ESS/ERAS (04:18–07:01) Content Summary: Claunch defines terms: EFS (eternal functional submission of Son/Spirit to Father per divine nature); ESS (eternal submission of Son); ERAS (eternal relations of authority/submission, per Ware). Contrasts with incarnational obedience (uncontroversial for creatures). Key Points: Eternal (contra-temporal, constitutive of God's life); not limited to human nature. Biblical focus on Son, but extends to Spirit; relations as "godness of God" (Father-Son-Spirit distinctions). Analytical Insights: Clarifies nomenclature's evolution (avoiding "subordinationism" heresy). Strength: Steel-mans EFS as biblically motivated, not cultural. Weakness: Risks blurring persons' equality if submission is essential. Connects to classical taxonomy (one essence, three persons via relations). Notable Quote: "This relation of authority and submission then is internal to the very life of God and as such is constitutive of what it means for God to be God." (06:36) Biblical Texts for EFS: Steel-Manning Arguments (07:01–14:34) Content Summary: Claunch lists key texts EFS advocates use, steel-manning sympathetically. John 6:38 (07:35): Son came "not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me"—roots in pre-incarnate motive. Sending Language (09:04): Father sends Son (never reverse); implies authority-obedience. Father-Son Names (09:43): Eternal sonship entails biblical patriarchal authority. 1 Cor 11:3 (10:04): "God [Father] is the head of Christ"—parallels man-woman headship (authority symbol). 1 Cor 15:24–28 (13:13): Future subjection of Son to Father ("eternity future" implies past). Key Points: EFS holders (e.g., Ware, Grudem—Claunch's friends/mentor) prioritize Scripture; not anti-Trinitarian. Analytical Insights: Effective charity—affirms motives (biblicism) while previewing critiques. Texts highlight economic Trinity (missions reveal immanent relations). Implication: If valid, EFS grounds complementarity in creation (e.g., gender roles via 1 Cor 11). But risks Arianism echoes if submission essentializes inequality. Notable Quote: "They believe this because they are convinced that this is what the Bible teaches... It's a genuine desire to believe what the Bible says." (14:15) Critiquing EFS Texts: Governing Principles (14:52–19:02) Content Summary: Claunch introduces "form of God/form of servant" rule (Augustine, Phil 2:6–8) and unity of God (one essence, attributes, acts). Applies to texts, emphasizing incarnation. John 6:38 (15:11): Incarnational (Son assumes human will to obey as Last Adam); "not my own will" implies distinct (human-divine) wills, not eternal submission. Compares to Gethsemane (Lk 22:42), Phil 2 (obedience as "became," not eternal), Heb 5:8 (learns obedience via suffering). Key Points: Obedience creaturely (Adam failed, Christ succeeds); EFS demands discrete divine wills, contradicting one will/power (inseparable operations). Analytical Insights: Augustinian rule shines—resolves tensions without modalism/Arianism. Strength: Harmonizes canon (analogy of Scripture). Implication: Protects active obedience's soteriological role (imputed righteousness). Weakness in EFS: Overlooks hypostatic union's permanence. Notable Quote: "Obedience is something he became, not something he was." (35:15) Inseparable Operations and Unity (19:02–28:18) Content Summary: One God = one almighty/omniscient/will (Athanasian Creed); external acts (ad extra) undivided (e.g., creation, resurrection appropriated to persons but shared). EFS's "distinct enactment" incoherent—submission requires discrete wills, implying polytheism. Submission entails disagreement possibility, undermining unity. Key Points: Appropriation (e.g., Father elects, but all persons do); one will upstream from texts. Analytical Insights: Core classical rebuttal—echoes Cappadocians vs. Arius (one ousia, three hypostases). Strength: Biblical (e.g., Jn 1 creation triad). Implication: Safeguards monotheism; critiques social Trinitarianism/EFS as quasi-polytheistic. Ties to procession (relations without hierarchy). Notable Quote: "If God's knowledge and mind understanding will is all one then the very idea... that you could have one divine person... have authority and the other... not have the same authority... Seems to be a category mistake." (24:41–25:14) Further Critiques: Sending, Headship, Future Submission (28:18–50:07) Content Summary: Sending (42:30): Not command (Aquinas/Augustine); missions reveal processions (eternal generation), not authority (analogical, e.g., adult "sending" without hierarchy). 1 Cor 11:3 (46:34): Incarnational (Christ as mediator); underdetermined text, informed by whole Scripture. 1 Cor 15 (48:10): Post-resurrection = ongoing hypostatic union (God-man forever submits as creature). Spirit's "Obedience" (49:26): No biblical texts; EFS extension illogical (Spirit unincarnate). Jn 16:13 ("not... on his own authority") mistranslates—Greek "from himself" denotes procession, not submission (parallels Jn 5:19–26 on Son's generation). Key Points: Obedience emphasis on Son's humanity for redemption; Spirit's mission unified (takes Father's/Son's). Analytical Insights: Devastating on Spirit—exposes EFS asymmetry. Strength: Exegetical precision (Greek apo heautou). Implication: EFS risks divinizing hierarchy over equality; retrieval favors Nicene grammar. Notable Quote: "There's not one single biblical text that uses the language of authority, submission, obedience in relation to the spirit." (50:07) Processions, Personhood, and Retrieval Tease (50:07–1:10:04) Content Summary: Persons = rational subsistences (Boethius); distinction via relations/processions (Father unbegotten, Son generated, Spirit spirated—not three wills/agents). Demars probes: Processions define persons (Son from Father, Spirit from both?). Claunch: Analogical, not creaturely autonomy. Teases retrieval discussion for future episode. Key Points: Creator-creature distinction; via eminentia/negativa for terms like "person." God unlike us—worship response to mystery. Analytical Insights: Clarifies hypostases vs. prosopa; counters social Trinitarianism. Strength: Humility amid density ("take your sandals off"). Implication: EFS confuses economic/immanent Trinity; retrieval recovers Nicene subtlety vs. modern individualism. Notable Quote: "The distinction is in the relation only... The ground of personhood is the divine nature." (1:03:07–1:03:32) Eschatological Reflection and Heaven (1:10:04–1:13:39) Content Summary: Demars: Perpetual learning in heaven? Claunch: Infinite expansion (Edwards' analogy—expanding vessel in God's love); Augustine: Laborious but advantageous pursuit. Key Points: Glorified knowledge joyful, finite yet ever-growing; press on (Hos 4:6). Analytical Insights: Pastoral pivot—doctrine doxological, not despairing. Ties to episode's awe: Trinity as eternal discovery. Notable Quote: "Nowhere else is a mistake more dangerous or the task more laborious or the discovery more advantageous." (1:13:11) Rapid-Fire Q&A (1:13:55–1:20:14) Content Summary: Fun segment: Favorites (24, Spurgeon/Piper sermons, Tolkien, It's a Wonderful Life, mountains, wine, licorice hate, fly, morning person, etc.). Ends with straw holes trick (one). Key Points: Reveals Claunch's tastes (e.g., Owen's works as "systematic theology," "Immortal, Invisible" hymn for funeral—mortality vs. God's eternity). Analytical Insights: Humanizes expert; hymn choice reinforces theme (Psalm 90 echo). Lightens load post-depth. Closing Prayer (1:20:14–1:21:04) Content Summary: Demars thanks God for Claunch's clarity; prays for his influence in church/academy. Key Points: Blessing for edification, glory. Analytical Insights: Bookends with prayer—Trinitarian focus implicit. Overall Analytical Themes: Claunch's non-EFS view upholds Nicene equality via processions/operations, critiquing EFS as well-intentioned but incoherent (risks subordinationism). Episode excels in balance: exegetical rigor, historical retrieval (Augustine/Aquinas/Owen), pastoral warmth. Implications: Bolsters complementarianism without Trinitarian cost; urges humility in mystery. Ideal for theology students/pastors navigating debates.  

CBTS Vice President and Professor of Practical Theology, John Miller, discusses his experiences as a church-planting pastor and the lessons he learned from planting Reformed Baptist churches. He further discusses Reformed ecclesiology and missiology and their importance in church planting. For more information about CBTS, visit CBTSeminary.org  

January 9, 2026 Tom Hicks,author & Pastor of First BaptistChurch of Clinton, Louisiana,who will address Part TWO of:“WHAT IS A REFORMED BAPTIST?” Subscribe: iTunes TuneIn Android RSS Feed Listen:

Enjoy this replay episode from Season 2!

It's Tuesday, January 6th, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Kevin Swanson Nigerian Muslims killed 32 Christians since Christmas Killings of Christians continue unabated in Nigeria, reports TruthNigeria.com. Islamist terrorists have killed at least 32 Christians since Christmas, and burned down hundreds of homes in the Adamawa, Kebbi, and Plateau states. Congressman asserts Nigerian Christians targeted for their faith On January 1st, Republican U.S. Congressman Riley Moore of West Virginia weighed in on X. He wrote, “If there were any remaining doubts that Christians in Nigeria are being targeted for their faith in Jesus Christ, this should end that debate.  This isn't about land usage, ‘climate change,' or any other argument the Left wants to make. “This is persecution of our brothers and sisters for their faith in Christ, plain and simple. ISIS is telling Christians they have an opportunity to ‘spare their blood' if they convert. Our brothers and sisters will not bend the knee to anyone but our Lord and Savior.” Also, late last week, the Islamic-supported Allied Democratic Forces carried out a deadly nighttime incursion, killing at least 15 people in the Lubero territory of Congo, Africa. 20 Iranians have died in protests in 78 cities Iranian protests enter Day 9 where at least 20 people have died in the unrest. Protests have been cited in 78 cities across 26 provinces, reports Iran International.  According to The Times on Sunday, Iran's Supreme Leader has a backup plan in place — to abscond to Russia should his security forces fail. North Korea shot hypersonic missiles Sunday North Korea successfully fired off several hypersonic missiles on Sunday, connecting with targets 700 miles away in Korea's East Sea. North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un called it a “very important strategic task to maintain and expand a powerful and reliable nuclear deterrent.”  Back in 2019, China deployed hypersonic technology. But the United States has yet to deploy its hypersonic technology — it is still in the testing phase.  Number of foreigners in Austria, Belgium and UK skyrocketing Remix News reports that over 41% of the population of Vienna, Austria's capital, is foreign born. And 50 percent of first-graders do not understand German. Also, Muslim students now account for 41.2 percent of all elementary school students, while Christian students fell to 34.5 percent. Plus, Austria, Belgium, and the United Kingdom have the highest percentages of babies born to immigrants — above 30%. Venezuelan dictator and wife plead not guilty The Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, both arrested by the U.S. government over the weekend, appeared in a New York City Court Monday to face charges of narco-terrorism conspiracy, cocaine importation conspiracy. and weapons offenses. They entered pleas of innocence to the charges. Psalm 37:9 is clear: “Evildoers shall be cut off; but those who wait on the Lord, they shall inherit the Earth.” China financed $60 billion loans to Venezuela Come to find out China has been a major player in Venezuela since 2000. The Council on Foreign Relations reports that Venezuela ate up $60 billion of Chinese loans accounting for fully half of all the money that China loaned to South America over the years. And China has been taking in about 80% of Venezuelan oil exports of late. Rubio objects to Iran, China, & Russia propping up Venezuela Appearing on NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio objected to America's enemies propping up Venezuela in America's backyard. Listen. RUBIO: “We don't need Venezuela's oil. We have plenty of oil in the United States. What we're not going to allow is for the oil industry in Venezuela to be controlled by adversaries of the United States. You have to understand. Why does China need their oil? Why does Russia need their oil? Why does Iran need their oil? They're not even in this continent. “This is the Western Hemisphere. This is where we live, and we're not going to allow the western hemisphere to be a base of operation for adversaries, competitors and rivals of the United States. We want to see the oil proceeds of that country benefit the people of Venezuela. “Why have 8 million people left Venezuela? Eight million: the single largest mass migration probably in modern history, left Venezuela in 2014 because all the wealth of that country was stolen to the benefit of Maduro and his cronies in the regime, but not to the benefit of people of Venezuela. You know how destabilizing 8 million migrants is? “The number one fear that Brazil has, that Colombia has, that all these countries in the region have about what's happening in Venezuela and our involvement is they're afraid of another mass migration event. That's what they feel. This is deeply destabilizing stuff. ”It's not going to continue to happen. They are not going to come from outside of our hemisphere, destabilize our region in our own backyard, and us have to pay the price for it, not under President Trump.” Brazil, Chile, Columbia, Mexico, Uruguay & Spain upset about Maduro The governments of Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Uruguay and Spain have issued a statement airing their disagreement with the U.S. military actions taken against Venezuela over the weekend.   The statement appealed to what they called the “principles of the United Nations Charter.” Trump upset that drug cartels are running Mexico and Columbia President Donald Trump has also told the U.S. press that something has to be done with Mexico. He told Fox News that the  drug cartels are running the country.  Plus, he called Columbia a “sick country” run by a “sick” president who “likes to sell Cocaine to the United States.” Trump said he's not going to be doing this very long.   And the president said, “Cuba is ready to fall” as well.  But let us all remember Who rules. Psalm 22:28-29 says, “For the kingdom is the Lord's, and He rules over the nations. All the prosperous of the Earth shall eat and worship; all those who go down to the dust shall bow before Him, even he who cannot keep himself alive.” Dallas street preachers handcuffed and detained without cause Here in America, street preachers connected with a “Reformed Baptist evangelistic ministry, [Testimonies of God], committed to the supremacy of Scripture and the advancement of Christ's Gospel,” were handcuffed and detained by police officers in Dallas a few weeks ago. The Christian Post reports that an officer had required the evangelists to get off the public sidewalk and cross the street — an order the preachers believed was unlawful. So far, no charges have been filed in the case. 15 states still allow trans surgeries and drugs for kids Two hospitals in left-wing Colorado have decided to stop writing prescriptions for sex-change drugs for children, reports 9-News. Children's Hospital and Denver Health have cited warnings from the U.S. Health and Human Services Department. Colorado was the faux-sex-change capital of the world in the 1980s and 1990s.   Sadly, 15 states still allow gender-based mutilation or gender-debilitating drugs for kids including Colorado, California, Oregon, Illinois, and New York. Japanese restaurant paid $3.24 million for bluefin tuna And finally, a Japanese sushi chain set a record for the price paid for a fish yesterday.  The Japan Times reports that Sushi Zanmai paid $3.24 million for a Pacific bluefin tuna at Tokyo's fish auction. That's an astounding $6,600 per pound! Close And that's The Worldview on this Tuesday, January 6th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Follow us on X or subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

Join us for a conversation with Tom Hicks, the senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Clinton, Louisiana. Hicks received his MDiv and PhD degrees from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and is the author of 'What is a Reformed Baptist?'.  'What is a Reformed Baptist?' Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F2FNH85F?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_EDZA3FSXW29SK90SCVPT&bestFormat=true

Recorded at the Nicaea Conference in Istanbul, this episode of The Westminster Podcast features a wide-ranging and incisive conversation with Pastor Leo de Chirico, a Reformed Baptist pastor serving in Rome, Italy. Drawing on his unique experience and years of evangelistic and theological engagement in a Roman Catholic context, Leo reflects on the significance of the Council of Nicaea, the purpose of the Nicene Creed, and what it really meant to confess Christ's divinity in the face of Arianism. Rather than treating the creed as a sentimental or purely ecumenical touchstone, Leo argues that Nicaea functioned as an exegetical workshop—a Scripture-driven response to heresy grounded in the authority of the Bible. From there, the conversation explores how different Christian traditions interpret the same creedal language within very different theological frameworks. Leo traces the divergent trajectories of Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, and Protestantism, contending that the Reformation did not reject Nicene Christianity but sought to recover what Nicaea assumed: the supremacy of Scripture as the norma normans. The discussion also turns to contemporary issues, including the renewed attraction of Roman Catholicism among evangelicals, the legacy of Vatican II, and the challenge of engaging a Catholicism that is adaptive, plural, and often misunderstood. Throughout, Leo presses a consistent theme: Christians may use the same words, but they often inhabit very different worlds—and faithful dialogue requires clarity, historical awareness, and a renewed confidence in Scripture alone. If you enjoy this episode, you can access tons of content just like this at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wm.wts.edu⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you would like to join us in our mission to train specialists in the bible to proclaim the whole counsel of God for Christ and his global church, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wts.edu/donate⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Thanks for listening!

Really had fun on today's program! Started off with a question I have for a Reformed Baptist minister, and all of his tribe, and the issue of "ecumenical councils," then went to callers. The first, about "Holocaustianity" went too long and went nowhere, but the rest were all thoughtful and really helpful. We have a great audience! I was really encouraged by the quality of the questions and the thinking they exemplified.

December 2, 2025 Tom Hicks,author & Pastor of First BaptistChurch of Clinton, Louisiana,who will address Part ONE of:“WHAT IS A REFORMED BAPTIST?” Subscribe: iTunes TuneIn Android RSS Feed Listen:

Rich and I were commenting after the show, "Why don't we do this more often? That was great!" Good calls on lots of topics as always. Two were on Reformed Baptists in churches of another denomination (one Lutheran, one PCA). Also calls on the early church writers, Mormonism, etc. Enjoy!