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Audio Transcript How are we this morning? Excellent. All right. It's my privilege to bring the word to you this morning, so let's get into it. Recently I read a story about a young man who never wanted to be a soldier. He had no visions of fame or ambitions of glory. When his father announced that he'd secured him an appointment to West Point, the boy protested. He wanted to be a farmer or perhaps work the river trade. But his father was not a man to be argued with, and so the 17 year old boarded a coach east. Sick with dread, he got off to a rough start. Through a clerical error, his name was copied incorrectly and it would stick permanently. He hated the academy. He finished 21st of 39 cadets, distinguished only in horsemanship and mathematics. The Mexican War found him a reluctant quartermaster, competent, but unnoticed afterward posted to lonely garrisons on the Pacific coast. Far from his wife Julia and the children he barely knew, he began to drink. In 1854, facing either court martial or resignation over his drinking, he resigned his commission in disgrace and went home with empty pockets. What followed were the worst years of his life. He tried farming on land his father in law gave him outside St. Louis, and the crops failed. He hauled firewood through the city streets in a worn army overcoat, occasionally passing former West Point classmates who looked away embarrassment. He pawned his gold watch one Christmas to buy presents for his children. He tried bill collecting and was terrible at it. He tried real estate and failed at that, too. By 1860, at 38 years old, he was working at a clerk in his younger brother's leather goods store in Galena, Illinois, earning $800 a year. He was a man whose life, by every visible measure, had failed. Then Fort Sumter fell. The quiet clerk who couldn't sell harnesses turned out to understand something that most West Point polished generals did not. The war was not about elegant maneuvers or reputation, but about pressing forward relentlessly, accepting losses and refusing to stop. Donaldson, Shiloh, Vicksburg, Chattanooga, the Wilderness, Appomattox. The failures had taught him things that successful men never learned. What it was to be underestimated, to be written off, to keep moving even when the odds looked long. The boy who didn't want to be a soldier, the the lieutenant who resigned in shame, the farmer who failed, and his brother's store. Hiram Ulysses Grant, or as the West Point Clerk mistakenly wrote, U.S. grant, ended the war as General of the armies, the man who had saved the Union and later President of the United States. It turned out that the long road had been the training. Weeks before his death, Grant wrote the preface to his personal memoirs, saying, man proposes and God disposes. There are but few important events in the affairs of men brought about by their own choice. Most of us at some point will know what it is to be in our own wilderness. We will know what it is to wait, to wait through years that seem to lead nowhere, to feel forgotten by God, to look out at a landscape that gives no sign that he is at work. And we will be tempted in those years to conclude that nothing is happening, that God has misplaced us, that our life is being spent in vain. This morning, as we come to a passage in the Book of Exodus that speaks directly into that experience. It is the story of 40 silent years in the life of Moses and 400 silent years in the life of Israel. It is the story of a God who appears to all human eyes to be doing nothing. And it is the story of how, beneath that silence, he was doing everything. So if you would with me open your Bibles, please, to the Book of Exodus. And this morning we're going to finish chapter two, verses 11 to 25. One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people and looked on their burdens. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his people. He looked this way and that, and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. When he went out the next day, behold, two Hebrews were struggling together. And he said to the man in the wrong, why do you strike your companion? He answered, who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian? Then Moses was afraid and thought, surely the thing is known. When Pharaoh heard of it, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from Pharaoh and stayed in the land of Midian. And he sat down by a well. Now, the priest of Midian had seven daughters. And they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. The shepherds came and drove them away. But Moses stood up and saved them and watered their flock. When he came home to their father, Reuel, he said, how is it that you have come home so soon today? They said, an Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and even drew water for us and watered the flock. He said to his daughters, then where is he? Why have you left the man? Call him that he may eat bread. And Moses was content to dwell with the man. And he gave Moses his daughter Zipporah. She gave birth to a son, and he called his name Gershom, for he Said I have been a sojourner in a foreign land. During those many days. The king of Egypt died and the people of Israel groaned because of their slavery and cried out for help. Their cry for rescue from slavery came up to God, and God heard their groaning. And God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. God saw the people of Israel and God knew. Let's pray. Father. May the words of my mouth and the meditations of our hearts this morning be acceptable in your presence. Lord, I pray, after my words are long forgotten, that your word would be remembered. Jesus name. Amen. Exodus is an epic of God's love and redemption of his people. Every scene reads like an action novel. The baby in the basket, the burning bush, the plagues, the angel of death. The parting of the Red Sea, the thunder and lightning around Mount Sinai, the covenant with the Almighty. Before we dive into our text, we must read Exodus rightly. We have to read it Christologically, that is, in relation to Jesus Christ, who is our perfect sacrifice, who saved us out of our bondage to sin and delivered us into a right relationship with God. When Jesus appeared to his disciples on the road to emmaus in Luke 24:27 Records beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. If Jesus started with Moses when describing himself, perhaps we can also we also read it historically. Scholars debate whether the Exodus took place around 1446 BC or around 1260. Good evidence exists for both dates and ancient Israel did not work with an absolute calendar the way we do. But what matters for us this morning is not the precise year, but the fact that it is history, not myth. The renowned Old Testament scholar Nahum Sarna observed that no nation would invent for itself and then faithfully transmit for thousands of years an inglorious origin story of slavery, grumbling and and idolatry. Israel did not flatter itself into existence. This happened. Exodus 2:11 to 25 sits at 1 of the great hinge moments of redemptive history. The book opens with the sons of Jacob settling in Egypt under the protection of Joseph. But there arose a new king over Egypt who did not know Joseph. What begins as refuge becomes bonding. Hebrews multiplied, and Pharaoh, fearing them, enslaved them and decreed that every male child be cast into the Nile. Into that decree Moses is born. Wes laid out for us last week that Moses mother hides him, his sister watches over him, and then Pharaoh's daughter draws him out of the water. He grows up in the palace, Stephen tells us in Acts 7:22 that he was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was mighty in his words and deeds. And that is where our passage begins. The structure that we will use this morning breaks down into four movements. Verses 11 to 14 Moses takes matters into his own hands. Verses 15 to 17 Moses flees and is shaped at a well. 18:22 Moses is welcomed and becomes a sojourner. 23 To 25 While Moses tends sheep, Israel groans and God acts. Start with 11 to 14. Moses has grown. Now the infant in the basket has become a man in Pharaoh's court, raised as Egyptian royalty. How much did he know about his true background growing up? Wes mentioned last week that Moses mother was allowed to nurse him. So did they still have a relationship? Certainly possible. There are so many unanswered questions. Did he live with a divided heart for years? Did he spend endless nights pleading with Pharaoh? Was he embarrassed by his background and didn't want to believe it? We have no idea. What we do know is that he was raised to be a prince of Egypt. But by the time he was 40, he knew exactly who he was and who his brothers and sisters truly were. Were. One day he goes out to his brothers, the Hebrews, and he looks on their burdens. And what he sees he cannot unsee. An Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own. He looks this way and that, and when he sees no one watching, he strikes. Strikes the Egyptian down and buries him in the sand. Now this raises a nagging question for me. If Moses was a member of Pharaoh's household in the royal family, so to speak, why would he have feared killing someone? Wouldn't a royal be able to kill a lowly Egyptian taskmaster with little to no reprisal? This goes into the historical context at the time. Exodus 1:8 says, now there arose a new king over Egypt who did not know Joseph. Commentators note that this likely indicates a dynastic change. A new royal house with no political or familial loyalty to the previous regime. In fact, during either time period, you believe royal houses at that time were very politically unstable, with different factions having different claims to the crown. The princess who had adopted him was almost certainly aging or dead. And the reigning pharaoh would have viewed an adopted Hebrew with suspicion, not affection. And the man Moses killed was not a slave. He was an Egyptian official, a representative of Pharaoh's economic and political authority. This is crucial. In ancient Egypt, killing a Hebrew slave was something an Egyptian could do with little consequence. But a member of the royal household killing one of Pharaoh's taskmasters. This probably would not have looked so much like murder. It would have looked like the potential beginning of an insurrection. The next day, Moses goes out and this time he finds two Hebrews fighting each other. He steps in to make peace, and the man in the wrong rounds on him with words that must have cut deeply. Who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you mean to kill us as you killed the Egyptian? And Moses is afraid. The secret is out. Beneath these interactions is something deeper that the New Testament helps us understand. The writer of Hebrews tells us this whole episode began in faith. By faith. Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the Reward. That's Hebrews 11:24-26. When Moses walked out of the palace, he was not slumming, he was choosing. He looked at the gold of Egypt on the one hand and the suffering of God's people in the other. And he chose the suffering. That is faith. So what went wrong? Well, it can be summed up in the next phrase. He looked this way. That a long line of preachers have lingered over those words and noticed what was missing. As Chuck Swindoll says, he looked east, he looked west, he looked over his shoulder, but he didn't look up, did he? He looked in both directions horizontally, but he left the vertical completely out of it. Moses was a man with a true call, but a glance still fixed on the ground. Here is the heart of the problem. Moses tried to bring about by his own hand what God had promised to bring about by his covenant. The deliverer was right, the cause was right, the method was wrong, and the time was not yet. And the proof is what he is in what he does next. He hides the body in the sand, as if sand could keep a secret from God. Within a day, the rumor was loose. Within a week, Pharaoh wants him dead. Three things to take from these opening verses. First, a true call from God does not exempt a man from from the discipline of God's timing. Moses had the right cause and the right collar. But he ran ahead. And it will take 40 years in the desert to refine him. Second, hidden sin is a poor investment. Sand is a thin grave. What God means to expose, no man can keep buried. Third, there is mercy for those with juvenile or immature faith. John Calvin's pastoral word on this passage is really helpful. Even the obedience of the saints, stained as it is by sin, is still sometimes acceptable to God through his mercy. So Moses runs, but God was not finished with him. He was only beginning verses 15 through 17. Verse 15 begins with collapse. However noble Moses motives may have been, when he took matters into his own hands, he was outside the will of God. And yet God still had a plan for him. This is one of the great promises of Scripture. God uses sinners for his glory. It's the only kind he has to work with. When you read the heroes of the faith, they read a lot more like a Alcoholics Anonymous meeting than a catalog of superheroes. I can almost see them in a church basement, sitting in a circle on folding chairs, sipping bad coffee, introducing themselves. Hi, I'm Abraham and I'm a liar who pimped out my wife. Hi, I'm Jacob. I'm a deceiver and I'm a thief. How? Hi, I'm Samson and I'm a lust addicted vow breaker. Hi, I'm David. I'm an adulterer and a murderer. Hi, I'm Jonah and I'm a racist runaway. Hi, I'm Peter and I'm a coward who denied my Savior. Hi, I'm Moses and I'm a murderer. When Janet and I lived in Atlanta, we had a pastor who was fond of saying that God doesn't look for ability, he looks for availability. God uses broken people because it's his strength, it's his wisdom, it's his power, and it's for his glory. God would be using Moses, but he had some seasoning yet to experience. Verse 15. When Pharaoh heard of it, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from Pharaoh and stayed in the land of Midian. There's no firm consensus on where exactly Midian was, but the traditional and most widely accepted location is in northwest Arabia, east of the Gulf of Agapa, in what is now northwestern Saudi Arabia. The Midianites appear to have been a semi nomadic people, so Midian may refer to an area where the tribe ranged rather than a specific location. Calvin, commenting here, sees in Moses flight not cowardice, but the sovereign hand of God, breaking a man down before he builds him up. Calvin's instinct is that the Lord put his servant through a long banishment precisely so that he would learn humility and dependence, because the work for which he was designed was greater than human strength could compass. 40 Years of palace training had to be matched by 40 years of desert undoing. Augustine, in a different connection, spoke of being in the region of unlikeness that far country, where the soul learns who it is by losing what it had. Moses, sitting by that well is in the region of unlikeness. Verse 15 ends noting that Moses, obviously exhausted, sat down by a well. One of the beauties of Scripture is the inclusion of what so often to us seems like pointless details. But wells, as it turns out, is an important location in the Bible, specifically, if you are looking for a wife. In Genesis 24, Abraham's servant meets Rebekah, Isaac's future wife, at a well. In Genesis 29, Jacob meets Rachel at a well. This time, who is Moses going to meet? Verses 16 and 17. Now, the priest of Midian had seven daughters, and they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. The shepherds came and drove them away, but Moses stood up to save them and watered their flock. Moses is once again faced with injustice. Has he learned anything? A group of young women have come to the well to draw water, and a group of shepherds is going to give them a hard time. Moses, again courageously rises to their defense. Already we see clues that he is learning from his past mistakes. The text does not record that he killed the shepherds, and not only that he served the young women by watering their flock. For the first time, he was learning what it was to be a deliverer. He stands firm for what is just and begins to practice true leadership, which is born out of service. It would have been unthinkable at the time for a man to perform a menial task for women. But Moses stooped to serve. And by learning to serve, he was learning to lead. For all God's leaders are servants. He, in time, the one who is the true and better. Moses would himself kneel and wash 12 pairs of dirty feet and tell his disciples that whoever wants to be great must be a servant of all. Service is always one of the first courses in God's leadership training. Anyone who aspires to spiritual leadership, especially in the church, should begin by finding a place of humble service. If you travel to my alma mater, Wheaton College, one of the most striking little buildings on campus is the Marion E. Wade center, which houses the largest collection of C.S. Lewis writings in the world. Its namesake, Marian Wade, was an American businessman and founder of the large company Servicemaster. Wade was a man of deep faith who established a tradition called six weeks on the front lines. Every future executive at the company would spend six weeks scrubbing floors on hands and knees, doing the work of those they would later lead. Wade believed that those who refused to serve had no business leading. One of the other blessings of servant leadership is that when kids watch authentic service from their parents, it has a tendency to be passed down through the generations. The other founder of Service Master was a gentleman by the name of Ken Hanson. Ken's son, Walter Hanson, when he grew up, would move to Cleveland. He started a little church in his living room. And it grew, and it grew to about a thousand. In 10 years, the church would grow into what is now called Parkside Church. And if that name rings a bell, it would be because it's the church that Alistair Begg just retired from. It's amazing how these things pass down. Moses is being molded. Though he must feel lost and alone, God is right there, directing the most salient detail, refining his champion. God creates this dress rehearsal. The stage is a backwater. Well, the cast is seven anonymous girls, but the script is the same script that would one day be played out at the Red Sea. This is how God so often works. CS Lewis, in his collected letters, wrote that the great thing, if one can, is to stop regarding all the unpleasant things as interruptions of one's own or real life. The truth is, of course, that what one calls the interruptions are precisely one's real life, the life God is sending one day by day, Moses thought his real life had ended at the border of Egypt. In fact, his real life was just beginning in Midian. There are seasons of our lives where it seems to have been derailed, where the calling we thought we had has collapsed and we find ourselves sitting by a well in some unfamiliar place. The temptation is to read those seasons as God's absence. But this text invites us to read them as God's curriculum. The God who is going to deliver Israel is at this very moment teaching his deliverer how to stand up for seven helpless women at a watering trough. Nothing in your wilderness is wasted. Turn to verses 18 to 22. The daughters return home and their father called Ruel here or Jethro elsewhere, most likely the same man. So don't get confused. Very common at the time for there to be multiple names for somebody. And he asked why they're early, and they say, an Egyptian delivered us. It's a quietly ironic line. Moses has gone out to deliver Hebrews and was rejected as a meddling Egyptian. He flees to Midian and is received as a generous Egyptian. The man cannot escape his identity, and yet his identity is not what God will make of it. Ruel rebukes his daughters for leaving the man unhosted. Call him that. He may eat bread and Moses is brought in. Verse 21 simply says Moses was content to dwell with the man. The Hebrew verb here ya all carries the sense of consenting, of being willing, even of resigning oneself. Moses is not striving anymore. He has come to the end of his striving. He sits down and he stays. The Book of Acts tells us that 40 years passed between Moses flight to Midian and his encounter with God at the burning bush. D.L. Moody is often quoted as saying Moses spent 40 years in Egypt learning to be something. 40 Years in the desert learning to be nothing. And 40 years in the wilderness proving God to be everything. Philip Reichen notes that whenever we are tempted to grow impatient with God's timetable for our lives, we should remember Moses, who spent two years of preparation for every year of ministry. Zipporah is given to Moses as a wife and a son is born. Moses names him Gershom new meaning I have become an alien in a foreign land. The name comes from the Hebrew verb garash, which means to drive out or expel. It may refer to Moses own experience of being driven out of Egypt. It also sounds like the Hebrew words ger and sham, which is a pun that means an alien there. Every time Moses speaks his son's name, he confesses that he does not belong. Midian is not home. Egypt is not home. He is a man between worlds. The Puritans loved this theme of sojourning. John Owen described the believer as a stranger and a pilgrim traveling through a country not his own, with his heart fixed on a city whose builder and maker is God. Jonathan Edwards preached a famous sermon called the Christian Pilgrim, in which he said that the true Christian travels on through this world as a wayfaring man and looks not upon any of the enjoyments of this world as his own. GK Chesterton, with his usual paradox, put it this way. How can we contrive to be at once astonished at the world and and yet at home in it? The answer of Scripture is that we cannot. Not fully, not yet. We are pilgrims. Gershom is the name of every saint. But notice Moses, sojourning is not a punishment, it is a preparation. RC Sproul emphasized that the entire 40 year sojourn in Midian was God's way of thinking. Moses for leadership, a man trained only in Pharaoh's court could not lead Israel through Pharaoh's wilderness. But a man who had himself become a shepherd of sheep in that very wilderness could one day shepherd God's people through it. The geography of Midian is the geography of the Exodus. Route. The skills Moses learned watering Reuel's flock are the skills he would use leading Israel's flock. God was not killing time. God was forging an instrument. And Moses doesn't know he names his son after his displacement. He doesn't name him soon to be deliverer or heir of promise. He names him Sojourner. The man cannot see what God is doing. Alistair Begg has spoken movingly of how God's people are very often in the dark about the brightness of God's plan for them. Moses is in the dark, but the brightness is gathering. If you are a Christian, you are a Gershom. You are a sojourner in a foreign land. The disquiet you feel, the restlessness, the sense that this world is not home is not a defect of your discipleship. It is a feature of it. CS Lewis spoke of this often when he talked about the pilgrim longing in Mere Christianity. He wrote, if we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world. The long ordinary years in which it seems nothing of eternal weight is happening to you are very likely the years in which God is doing his deepest work. Verses 23 and 20 through 25. And now the camera pulls back, just like in a movie. We get a break from the action in Midian and the screen flashes. Meanwhile, back in Egypt. Verse 23. During those many days, the king of Egypt died and the people of Israel groaned because of their slavery and cried out for help. 40 Years have passed. A Pharaoh has died, another has come. Nothing has changed for Israel. They are still in chains. Bricks still must be made, whips still fall. And from those brick fields raises a sound. The text uses the strongest words in Hebrew for it. A groaning, a crying, a shrieking that goes up out of the dust. Where does the cry go? To all human eyes, the cry goes nowhere. Pharaoh doesn't hear it. The Egyptians don't hear it. Moses doesn't hear it. And then come four of the most precious verbs in the Old Testament. Their cry for rescue from slavery came up to God, and God heard their groaning. And God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. God saw the people of Israel, and God knew. God heard. God remembered. God saw. God knew. John Piper has called these four verbs the Gospel before the Gospel, the announcement hundreds of years before Bethlehem that the God of heaven is not a deistic clock maker, but a covenant father who hears the groaning of his enslaved children. Each verb carries a war world. God heard, not merely overheard, the Hebrew implies attentive, responsive, hearing the cry that no human ear answered, the cry that seemed to die in the air over the Egyptian sky. The cry arrived at the throne of heaven. The silence of God is never the deafness of God. When his people cry, he hears with the ears of a father. God remembered. This does not mean that God had forgotten and now recalled. To remember in the covenantal sense is to act upon a prior commitment. When Scripture says God remembered Noah, the next thing is that the waters subside. When it says he remembered Hannah, the next thing is that she conceives. When it says he remembered his covenant with Abraham, the next thing is the Exodus. God's remembrance is the prelude to his deliverance, the covenant he made 400 years before. I will be a God to you and to your offspring after you has not faded. He was about to honor it. God saw. The verb is the same verb used in Genesis 1. And God saw that it was good. It is the verb of attentive, evaluating, sight. He saw the bruises, he saw the broken backs. He saw the widows, the unburied babies. There is no suffering of his people that is hidden from him. The Scottish divine Samuel Rutherford, writing from his imprisonment in Aberdeen, often returned to the image of God as the watchman over Israel, who never slumbers, whose people's tears are gathered in heaven long before they fall to the ground. God sees and God knew. Interestingly, the verb stands alone in the Hebrew. There is no object God knew. Some translations may supply one. God knew their condition, but the Hebrew leaves it bare. Why? Perhaps because what God knows here is larger than any object can contain. He knows their pain, he knows their bondage, he knows their names, and he knows what he is about to do. Jonathan Edwards taught that every act of God in history is the unfolding of a purpose conceived before time began. God knew. While Moses sits in Midian thinking he had been forgotten, and while Israel cries in Egypt, thinking that they have been forgotten, neither has been forgotten. God is doing two things at once. In Midian, he is shaping his deliverer. In Egypt, he is hearing their cries. The two threads are converging towards a burning bush in the next chapter. But neither Moses nor Israel can see it. Yet Augustine in his Confessions, wrote this sentence. Thou, O Lord, wert more inward to me than my most inward part and higher than my highest. That is the God of Exodus 2. He is closer to Israel's groaning than the chains on their wrists. He is closer to Moses weariness than the dust on his sandals. He is not far off. He is not distracted, he is at work. Four thoughts to close. First, be still and know that he is God. What we are very often is people who run ahead of God. Moses is not alone in this. Abraham had the promise of a son and and couldn't wait until he took Hagar. And the household of faith has lived with the consequences ever since. Jacob had the blessing already promised to him, but couldn't wait, and so he stole it with a goatskin and a lie. Peter had a lord he loved and couldn't bear to see him arrested. So he drew a sword in Gethsemane and cut off a man's ear. The pattern is older than Moses, and it is as new as this morning. The right cause can be pursued in the wrong way and the wrong time. Bradley Gray puts it bluntly. Nothing good happens when you get ahead of God and take matters into your own hands. Second, the silence of God is not the absence of God. 40 Years passed in Midian and 400 years in Egypt before God spoke from the bush. But not one of those years was empty. God was hearing, he was remembering. He was seeing, he was knowing. If your life feels like a wilderness right now, if you have been sitting by your own well in Midian waiting for a word from heaven that just doesn't come, take this passage and press it to your heart. The silence is not absence. The God who shaped Moses in obscurity is shaping you now. In his 1967 book Spiritual Leadership, J. Oswald Sanders quoted this anonymous poem. When God wants to drill a man and thrill a man, and skill a man. When God wants to mold a man to play the noblest part, when he yearns with all his heart to create so great and bold a man that all the world shall be amazed. Watch his methods, watch his ways, how he ruthlessly perfects whom he royally elects. How his hammer he hammers him and hurts him and with mighty blows converts him into trial shapes of clay which only God understands. While his tortured heart is crying and he lifts beseeching hands, how he bends but never breaks when his good he undertakes, how he uses whom he chooses and with every purpose him by every act induces him to try his splendor out. God knows what he's about. Third, your sojourning has a destination. Moses named his son Gershom because he felt the foreignness of his life. But the foreignness was not the end of the story. It was the prelude to a calling. The writer of Hebrews tells us that all the saints acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. They desired a better country. That is a heavenly one. Your pilgrimage is not a pointless one wandering. It is a movement towards a country God has prepared for you. Fourth, and most importantly, the God who heard Israel has heard you in a fuller way still. The end of Exodus 2 is a foreshadowing. The four verbs heard, remembered, saw new, find their final fulfillment not at Sinai, but at Calvary. There the Father heard the cries of his people. There he remembered the covenant he had made before the foundations of the world. There he saw his Son lifted up between heaven and earth, bearing the groaning of every enslaved soul in his own body. And there he knew in a way only the triune God could know the cost of redeeming a people for himself. If God heard Israel groaning under Pharaoh and he sent Moses, how much more has he heard your groaning and sent his son? The exodus from Egypt is the shadow. The exodus from sin and death is the substance. And the same four verbs hover over the cross. Today God hears your cries that come up from the dust of this fallen world. God remembers his covenant with you. God sees you right now in this room, in your struggle, in your brokenness. And God knows exactly what he's doing. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this text. Father, thank you for your covenant with us. That you know us, that you love us, that you see us, that no prayer goes unheard, no silence is a waste. And that wherever we are in our life, whatever burdens we are carrying, that you're right here. That you are molding us and you are creating us in just the way that you had planned for us before the creation of the world. Thank you for who you are. In Jesus name, amen. The post Moses Flees to Midian – Exodus 2: 11-25 appeared first on Red Village Church.

In this concluding message of Matthew 13, Pastor Karl unpacks the final three parables of Jesus — the Hidden Treasure, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Net — and challenges the common interpretations most of us have grown up hearing.Rather than reading these parables through a modern American lens, Pastor Karl takes us back into a first-century Jewish mindset to uncover what Jesus was really communicating. The treasure hidden in the field isn't something we purchase with our devotion — it's a picture of Jesus himself, who in joy gave everything to redeem his chosen people. The pearl of great price wasn't a treasure to the Jews at all, which is exactly the point: Jesus was revealing the shocking mystery that Gentiles — the unclean, the outsiders — would be included in the kingdom of God. And the parable of the net reminds us that not all roads lead to heaven, and that a day of separation is coming.Pastor Karl also draws a striking connection to the book of Ruth, showing how Boaz purchasing the field to gain Ruth as his bride foreshadowed what Jesus would do for his people — buying the field to possess the treasure within it.The message closes with one of the hardest passages for any pastor to preach at his own church: Jesus returning to his hometown, only to be met with familiarity and low expectation. The takeaway is pointed — low expectation limits reception. The messenger can be overlooked, but the message cannot: God chose to treasure you, not because of anything you offered, but because of the price his Son was willing to pay.Watch all our sermons on our youtube channel "Flipside Christian Church"Join us in person 8:00am, 9:30am & 11:00am every Sunday morning.37193 Ave 12 #3h, Madera, CA 93636For more visit us at flipside.churchFor more podcasts visit flipsidepodcasts.transistor.fm

Why does worship feel shallow? Why does preaching feel flat? Why has passion for God gone cold? The answer might be simpler — and more uncomfortable — than you think: a low view of God.This episode is sponsored by The Master's University. To learn more about how you can invest in a college education devoted to Christ & Scripture, visit https://www.masters.edu In this episode, we open in Isaiah 6 — widely considered the greatest passage on the holiness of God in all of Scripture — and trace it through the story of King Uzziah, the seraphim, Palm Sunday in John 12, and the return of Christ in Revelation 19. What we find is a thread that ties the whole Bible together: God is a holy King, and understanding that changes everything.Topics we cover:What A.W. Tozer meant when he said your view of God is the most important thing about youKing Uzziah — what pride, prosperity, and a low view of God's holiness cost him- The seraphim in Isaiah 6 — who they are and why they cover their facesWhat "Holy, Holy, Holy" actually means (and why it's the only attribute tripled in Scripture)The connection between Isaiah 6 and Palm Sunday in John 12- Why God is not self-deprecating — and why that's actually good newsThe difference between a quantitative and qualitative view of GodRevelation 19 and the return of the KingReferenced: Isaiah 6, 2 Chronicles 26, John 12, Revelation 4 & 19, Tozer, Sinclair Ferguson, RC Sproul, Spurgeon, Michael Horton

Bob continues his commentary on John chapter 3, this time on verses 18 through 36 (finishing the chapter). The emphasis is on the humility of John the Baptist, and the fact that you need a savior.Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:The previous episode in this series, i.e. BMS ep 487, Installment 11: Whoever Believes in Him.RC Sproul on Jesus as the light.Help support the Bob Murphy Show.

❤️R.C. Sproul revela que la cruz no fue solo amor… fue justicia divina cayendo sobre Cristo. Descubrí cómo Jesús fue hecho maldición para redimirte. Una enseñanza que te va a sacudir el corazón y la mente. Podés hacernos preguntas a través de nuestras cuentas en Facebook o Instagram. Toda la música del podcast es de Pippo y Banda IA. Pippo y Banda IA ya tiene su propio canal en Telegram, ahí podes escuchar y bajar su música. https://t.me/+Nr8mhrQJZFpjNzdh Unite a nuestro canal de difusión en Telegram https:/t.me/radioshanghai. También podés escucharnos en Youtube, Applepodcast, Ivoox y muchos lugares más.Recordá que podés seguirnos en Facebook e Instagram, dejanos tus comentarios y si te gusta compartilo…Si queres colaborar con nosotros podés hacerlo a través de Cafecito https://cafecito.app/radioshanghai Soli DEO Gloria

Send us Fan MailIt's easy to look at people like John MacArthur, RC Sproul, and Voddie Baucham, and marvel at how brilliant they are. But these men didn't wake up one day and were theological geniuses. Every single believer – including all of those men - and even John Calvin, Martin Luther, and Charles Spurgeon - were at one point immature, or at least new believers. The difference between staying in that immature place or growing up is what we do after we're saved.  How do we grow up?Thanks for tuning in! Be sure to check out everything Proverbs 9:10 on our website, www.proverbs910ministries.com! You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Rumble, YouTube, Twitter, Truth Social, and Gettr!

RC Sproul was asked the question: “How can I know that I'm saved?” His answer sounds right to a lot of Christians. But it's not the question Jesus forces us to confront. And once you see what I'm about to show you, it'll change the way you think about salvation.Check out my second channel for deep Bible study: https://www.youtube.com/@EveryWord_WDGrab 2 months free with Logos right now: www.logos.com/WiseDiscipleTry Biblingo at a discount using Code: WISEDISCIPLE10 https://biblingo.org/pricing/?ref=wisediscipleCheck out my Debate Masterclass: https://wisedisciple.org/masterclassSupport me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/WiseDiscipleGet my 5 Day Bible Reading Plan here: https://www.patreon.com/collection/565289?view=expandedGet your Wise Disciple merch here: https://bit.ly/wisediscipleWant a BETTER way to communicate your Christian faith? Check out my website: www.wisedisciple.org OR Book me as a speaker at your next event: https://wisedisciple.org/reserve 

[Slide 1] 2025 in Review 1.) [Slide 2] The challenges of 2025 a. Sickness i. Many sicknesses throughout the year are even still floating around. ii. Bouts of hand foot and mouth, the flu, fevers, sore throats, ear infections, and even some pesky allergies. iii. You need to be made of sterner stuff to live in MI I suppose. b. Physical issues i. Cancer battles are ongoing for some. ii. We had a couple broken bones iii. Weakness for some of our aging members iv. Back issues v. Sinus pressure vi. Tooth infections vii. Poison Ivy viii. Surgeries ix. Procedures x. And many doctor visits. c. Tragic Accidents i. We know of folks who have been involved in tragic accidents where people were injured. ii. Sometimes these accidents have changed people's lives forever. iii. Sometimes these accidents have stretched the limits of what it means to forgive and to love one another. d. Wars and Rumors of Wars i. The Russia Ukraine conflict continues ii. And the middle east of course. e. House hunting i. Many have moved to new locations and even new states and have been searching for somewhere to call their own. ii. Some have found homes for themselves – others are still looking diligently. f. Long trials i. Several have heard the word cancer uttered in their diagnosis this year. ii. Many have come through radiation or chemo or both. iii. Some among us took in family members who need constant care. iv. Kathy LaForest and her ongoing battle with cancer. v. Eric Beuaman's ongoing battle with congestive heart failure. vi. Joe and Sandy Henig moving into an assisted living facility and to be closer to family. vii. Jean Evans, with pancreatic cancer back and being put on hospice. viii. The Wingate family in general has endured quite a lot. With aging sisters and saying goodbye to nephews. g. Deaths of family and friends. i. Pat Dunsmore – Tania's father, after a long battle with COPD, went home to be with the Lord. ii. Rick Ellis – Pat and Lyle's Nephew, after yet another cancer battle, also passed on in peace. iii. Terri – Jean Evans' late husband Carl's daughter – promoted to glory after a short battle with cancer. iv. John MacArthur – a highly respected preacher and teacher of the Word passed away this year. h. Some Elders' jobs i. Both CJ and Jerry have experienced work instability this year. ii. CJ is still looking for a job. Jerry had to say goodbye to some work relationships because he was changing jobs. i. Spiritual battles i. We have had some fairly large spiritual issues arise in the church this year. ii. We have had several disputes between neighbors and spouses. iii. We have seen the deceitfulness of sin draw away one of our members. iv. We have also seen others leave in dereliction of their membership covenant obligations. 2.) [Slide 3] The blessings of 2025 a. Weather i. Much closer to normal weather this year. ii. We didn't have 1 single hurricane make landfall in the US. Which is somewhat astounding. iii. Although we didn't have a white Christmas this year we have already had a couple snow storms and even had the snow stick around for quite a while. b. Numerical blessings i. Baby Jaspir Bogen ii. Baby Everett Wegner iii. Baby Leah McCue iv. Baby Loretta McCue is coming in a few short weeks. c. My Fellow American i. Chris Steary passed his test to become a US citizen this year. ii. Congrats to him. d. Audio Visual Upgrades i. We were able to upgrade our computer, projector, and soundboard for our worship services. ii. This was already in the works, and providentially the Lord saw to it that it became abundantly obvious that it was necessary after we experienced some significant technical difficulties during the service. iii. We even had to go old school with an overhead projector one week. e. Missionary blessings i. We had Eric and Cherie Daum with us at the beginning of this year for a couple months. 1. They have since gone back to Asia Pacific, purchased land, built a house, and have moved in. 2. They are still learning the local language and getting ready for a language check very soon. 3. Of course, Bernie and Sue are going back to help for an entire month. ii. We had the Lundquist's join us this year for two weeks including our Lord's Supper catered meal. iii. We also were able to help send Lucy to Senegal - which we heard about this morning. What an amazing ministry. iv. Jordan and Emily experienced heartache this year when Emilly was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. After two surgeries it appears they have gotten all of the cancer out. They will test again in a few months. The blessing here is that we have had the opportunity to provide a home for them to live in as they struggle through this time. Praise the Lord. f. Spiritual Blessings i. 4 new professions of faith this year 1. Carrigan Golab 2. Sabreana Porter 3. Waylon McLeod 4. Amanda Jansen ii. 4 baptisms this year iii. 3 New Members were added iv. We began a new Jr. Church format this year, breaking into 3 groups instead of just two. Overall, the teachers have done an amazing job and it seems as though the kids are learning a good deal. v. We began a study bible distribution project last year with a goal of insuring that every father in the church had a LSB John MacArthur study bible. We are happy to announce that only 4 of those bibles remain and most of you are benefitting from one of them. vi. As a church we have also had the opportunity to be a blessing to other organizations. 1. Classical Conversations has entered its 7th year in using our church for its campus. 2. Michigan Karate for Christ began using our building at the beginning of this year to train its students in Kenpo Karate 3. The 4h Club Rustic Ramblers began using our building this year for its meetings as well. 4. We also had two non-member weddings. 5. These have all given us opportunities to be a light to our community. g. We as a church have received the blessing of teaching – LOTS of teaching praise the Lord! i. Basics class continued this year 1. First with the financial peace university, moderated by the Stearys. 2. Then with the Basics for the Christian life study led by both Nick Galante and myself. ii. Thursday Night Prayer Group 1. We meet at 6pm via the TEAMS app. 2. Most nights we pray over our congregation and our many needs and then discuss the sermon from the previous Sunday. iii. Youth Community. 1. We have been plodding along with Youth Community this year. 2. The families who attend find great benefit to the concentrated doses of spiritual truths our children are memorizing in the Baptist Catechism and comradery around other parents struggling to teach key doctrinal truths to their kids. iv. Foundations 1. We actually made quite a good deal of progress this past year in foundations. 2. We took what was originally a 4 year goal to study the entire bible and have crammed that into a 10 year (and counting) chronological study of the scriptures. 3. We have made it to King Josiah. 4. Still this year we have finished Isaiah, began Jeremiah, almost completed 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles and will finish up Nahum in the next few weeks. v. Preaching 1. We finally finished the book of Acts this year. 2. It only took us 2 and a half years and 100 sermons – but we made it. 3. We began our study of 1 and 2 Thessalonians, of which we've made it to almost chapter 3. 4. I also preached a Puritan sermon for Thanksgiving from Thomas Manton. vi. BSF 1. Although not affiliated with our church directly, Bible Study Fellowship has a long history of being a great way for people to gather and study the bible together. 2. Many of our church members are either leading or participating in BSF this year in their study of Ezekiel, Daniel, Ezra, and Esther. vii. There were several more bible studies and gatherings – most of which are a couple or few people who gather regularly to study the scriptures. h. Church finances held i. Even though we had a slight decrease in giving – we still met budget by spending less than we brought in. ii. This is in addition to doing some minor repairs to the parking lot and replacing much of our audio-visual equipment. i. Elders have been challenged this year i. I put this in the blessing category because it is indeed a blessing to see the Lord work through the plurality of qualified leaders He has given you for this church. ii. We have wrestled with questions this year, that we did not expect. iii. We have been baffled, confused, grieved, overjoyed, and frustrated. iv. We have wept together, tears of grief and tears of joy. v. We have laughed together. vi. We have even begun laying plans for developing future Elders. vii. Although no one ever said being an Elder would be easy – this year it was abundantly clear. viii. Pray for your Elders. I would guess that about 75% of our job is held in confidence and is never presented in any way to any of you. ix. Give your Elders the benefit of the doubt too. Should they say or do something that seems egregious… it probably has another explanation. If someone comes to you suggesting that the Elders are doing something crazy – perhaps you should either dismiss what they said or call an Elder up and get it straight from them. x. This year especially – let me remind you – we have labored for your souls. xi. Even if it seems like we don't get much done… know that you only see about 25% of what is happening around here. xii. Remember… we could always go slower.

✨Nada en la Navidad fue casualidad. Ni el censo, ni el viaje, ni el pesebre. En esta clase, R.C. Sproul nos lleva a ver cómo Dios gobierna imperios, tiempos y hombres para cumplir Su Palabra: el Verbo se hizo carne. Podés hacernos preguntas a través de nuestras cuentas en Facebook o Instagram. Toda la música del podcast es de Pippo y Banda IA. Pippo y Banda IA ya tiene su propio canal en Telegram, ahí podes escuchar y bajar su música. https://t.me/+Nr8mhrQJZFpjNzdh Unite a nuestro canal de difusión en Telegram https:/t.me/radioshanghai. También podés escucharnos en Youtube, Applepodcast, Ivoox y muchos lugares más.Recordá que podés seguirnos en Facebook e Instagram, dejanos tus comentarios y si te gusta compartilo…Si queres colaborar con nosotros podés hacerlo a través de Cafecito https://cafecito.app/radioshanghai Soli DEO Gloria

Introduction The doctrine of unconditional election, as presented in the Canons of Dort, is often misunderstood as unfair. However, the Canons argue that it is a loving doctrine because it guarantees the fulfillment of God's redemptive decree, ensuring that His people will enter His rest despite our rebellion.Election by Grace The Canons of Dort affirm that God's election is a gracious choice made before the foundation of the world, not based on human merit. This doctrine emphasizes God's sovereignty and mercy, highlighting that humanity's fall into sin was a result of humanities' own rebellion. The Canons also underscore the significance of God's means, such as His Word and Spirit, in drawing individuals to Himself.RC Sproul pointed out that there are four possible options for God's plan of salvation: no salvation, sending Christ without guaranteeing faith, ensuring salvation for some, or ensuring salvation for all. The most gracious options are ensuring salvation for some or all. In Romans 9 Paul addresses the issue of Israel's election and the inclusion of Gentiles in the church. God's election is based on His mercy alone, his good will, and not on human merit or actions.Election without our worksThe doctrine of reprobation, as explained in the canons, asserts that God's election is not based on foreseen faith or human merit. Instead, it is a sovereign act of God's grace, where He chooses some for salvation while passing over others. This is exemplified in the biblical story of Jacob and Esau, where God's choice of Jacob is not based on Esau's perceived unworthiness, but on His own sovereign will.Romans 9 explores the complex relationship between Jacob and Esau, highlighting their differing attitudes towards God's promises. Esau, representing the reprobate, is indifferent to spiritual matters, while Jacob, though zealous for God's promises, relies on his own schemes rather than God's timing. Jacob learns through his limp that God establishes his purposes. It is not based on the man who works. It is based on God's mercy. Our works flow from our election and the Spirit's work. We need to remember that God's election is not cruel, as He allows reprobates to pursue their desires, while the elect, maybe sometimes concerned about their standing, need to realize that the reson we cear is the Spirit's work in us. So believe and live! ConclusionGod is not cruel in His doctrine of election. We need to remember that He allows reprobates to continue on their chosen path, while showing mercy to the elect. The elect, unlike the reprobate, care about Christ and their salvation, which is guaranteed by God's elective purpose and mercy. There is a great comfort in this in our seasons of doubt. If we wonder if we are the reprobate we ought to realize that Esau never cared about that status. He only cared about the earthly standing. Let us proceed in the confidence of Christ. Let us proceed in his mercy. Let us live unto him and die to self as our life and strength are only found in him.

Smith & Rowland tackle protests in Charlotte, violent crime, ICE operations, and how public outrage ties back to one issue, the authority of the Holy Bible. From paid protesters and foreign flags to soft local leadership, they call out the breakdown of law and order and the loss of basic loyalty to the United States. Then they turn to the church world. Alan and Jeff expose how political voices like Nick Fuentes, media figures, and even parts of the Catholic Church are Weaponizing scripture. They walk through RC Sproul's warnings about church authority, replacement theology, and why the Bible is not for private interpretation but for clear understanding and obedience. If you care about truth, faith, and how God's word is being twisted in our time, this episode will challenge you to think and to study. Website: https://kingdompropheticsociety.org Daily Unplugged Podcast: https://smithandrowlandshow.podbean.com  #SmithAndRowlandShow #HolyBible #NickFuentes #BibleTeaching #ChristianPodcast

In this episode of the Text Driven Podcast, Timothy Pigg discusses the four categories of people in relation to their understanding of salvation, as highlighted by Dr. RC Sproul. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing those who are lost but believe they are saved, and outlines the four marks of a genuine Christian. Pigg warns against the dangers of deception within the church and stresses the necessity of love as a defining characteristic of true discipleship. He encourages regular preaching of the gospel to ensure a regenerate church membership.TakeawaysThere are four categories of people regarding salvation.Many in the church may think they are saved but are not.A genuine Christian desires to abide in the Word of God.Knowing the truth means having a personal relationship with Jesus.Freedom from sin is a mark of a genuine disciple.Being part of God's family is essential for salvation.Satan deceives people into thinking they are right with God.Love is a key characteristic of a true Christian.Regular preaching of the gospel is vital for the church.Church membership should be reserved for those who truly believe.Chapters00:00 Understanding the Four Categories of People06:08 The Danger of Deception in the Church11:58 Preaching the Gospel Regularly

In this solo episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal tackles the concerning theological trend of "Divine Council Theology" and its recent resurgence within Reformed circles. He offers a critical analysis of Michael Heiser's influential work and its problematic popularization by Reformed figures like Doug Van Dorn and John Moffitt. Tony demonstrates how redefining the biblical term "Elohim" to include both God and created spiritual beings in the same ontological category fundamentally undermines the creator-creature distinction essential to Christian orthodoxy. Through careful examination of systematic theological categories, communicable and incommunicable attributes, and implications for Christology, he reveals why this seemingly academic redefinition poses serious threats to biblical monotheism and classical Reformed theology. Key Takeaways Divine Council Theology, popularized by Michael Heiser and now being promoted within Reformed circles, attempts to redefine "Elohim" as a functional category that includes both God and created spiritual beings. This theological trend commits an etymological fallacy by redefining the predominant usage of "Elohim" (which refers to the God of Israel in ~2,300 of 2,600 occurrences) based on minority usages. The approach dangerously blurs the fundamental creator-creature distinction that is essential to Christian monotheism and orthodox theology. Proponents incorrectly classify divine power as a communicable attribute rather than recognizing omnipotence as an incommunicable attribute that cannot be shared with creatures. The theological system makes problematic analogies to the incarnation, showing a confused understanding of the hypostatic union and potentially opening the door to Arian implications. This theology represents a concerning return to concepts the early church fathers fought against when confronting pagan Greek thought, rather than a retrieval of biblical teaching. Departing from the "pattern of sound words" handed down through church history in favor of novel interpretations should raise significant warning flags. Key Concepts The Creator-Creature Distinction The most fundamental division in Christian theology is not between spiritual and material beings, but between the uncreated Creator and everything else that exists. Divine Council Theology dangerously undermines this distinction by placing God and created spiritual beings in the same category of "Elohim." While proponents acknowledge God as the uncreated Creator, they nevertheless insist on categorizing Him alongside angels, demons, and other spiritual entities based on shared attributes of power or function. This categorization system parallels pagan worldviews more than biblical theology, where God exists in a class of one. By defining "Elohim" as a functional category related to spiritual power rather than an ontological one, this approach inadvertently returns to a hierarchical view of spiritual beings with God merely at the "top of the totem pole" rather than in an entirely separate and unique category of existence. This framework subtly but significantly undermines biblical monotheism by suggesting God shares a fundamental nature with His creatures. Communicable vs. Incommunicable Attributes Divine Council Theology mishandles the traditional theological distinction between God's communicable and incommunicable attributes. In classical Reformed theology, communicable attributes (like love or wisdom) can be shared with creatures in a limited, analogical way, while incommunicable attributes (like omnipotence, eternality, or divine simplicity) belong exclusively to God and cannot be shared without making the creature into God. Proponents of Divine Council Theology erroneously suggest that the power denoted by "Elohim" is a communicable attribute that God shares with spiritual beings, rather than recognizing omnipotence as properly incommunicable. This misclassification creates theological incoherence: if God could truly share His omnipotence with creatures, those creatures would effectively become equal to God in power, creating the logical impossibility of multiple omnipotent beings. This confusion of categories demonstrates how this theological system fails to maintain proper distinctions that are essential for preserving the uniqueness and transcendence of God in Christian theology. Memorable Quotes "Christianity and biblical Judaism—the primary distinction is not between spiritual and matter... The primary distinction when we're talking about the most absolute line is the distinction between the uncreated creator and his creation." "Rather than rely on the safe time-tested words and concepts that have been proven and validated, and attacked and defended and have been victorious for hundreds and thousands of years... Moffitt and Van Dorn think it is smarter and safer to depart from the pattern of sound words rather than to keep the pattern of sound words because they think that they are able to look at the Bible the way basically no one ever has in the 2000 years of the church and find something they haven't." "These teachings are pagan. This is talking about returning to a world populated by spiritual beings, and God is kind of just on the highest part of the totem pole... We're just returning to something that the early church fought hard to get rid of when they came out of their pagan culture." Resources Mentioned Reformed Arsenal article series on Divine Council Theology Full Transcript [00:00:24] Introduction and Episode Setup Tony Arsenal: Welcome to episode 461 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I am Tony, and today it's just me. Hey, brothers and sisters. We had a little bit of a scheduling conflict this week, so Jesse is taking the week off and uh, it gives me an opportunity to talk about something that I've been doing a little bit of research on. [00:00:47] Affirmations and Denials Tony Arsenal: Hopefully the listener has noticed that Jesse and I have been trying to keep our affirmations and denials a little bit tighter so we can get into the meat of the episode a little bit quicker. But occasionally we do run into a denial, usually a denial, but we run into a denial that, uh, we often say this could be an episode of its own. And so today is one of those episodes. So I'm not gonna give you my normal affirmation or denial. I'm just gonna jump into it. Now this is gonna be a little bit off the cuff. I've been doing some research, so I may not have as much of the receipts as the kids say, um, as I normally would. But I am writing a series of articles on this issue over@reformedarsenal.com. I'll make sure to put the link to the first article in the show notes. All of the receipts are there, all of the timestamps for the podcast episodes that I'll be. Discussing your critiquing. Are there citations for research work that I'm doing? All that stuff is there. So if you're interested in digging into the meet and you're the kind of guy who, or girl who likes to nerd out in the footnotes, then head over to uh reformed arsenal.com. You'll find the series pretty quick. [00:01:56] Introduction to Divine Counsel Theology Tony Arsenal: What I wanted to talk about today, and I'm glad we have kind of a whole episode, uh, to talk about it, is a movement, uh, that has some foothold in reformed theology. Uh, it's not new, uh, it didn't start in reformed theology, but for some reason, uh, those who are within our orbits tend to be a little bit enamored by this kind of theology. I'm not exactly sure why. [00:02:19] Michael Heiser's Influence Tony Arsenal: This theology is often called Divine Counsel Theology, and it was really, um, you know, it's not entirely new even with, with this figure, but it was really made popular and sort of, um, spread about and made accessible by the late Michael Heiser. Um, part of this is because he was just a very winsome, uh, guy. He took. Sort of highfalutin academic concepts and was able to bring them down to, uh, to an understandable level, including things like ancient near Eastern context, biblical, you know, ex of Jesus Hebrew language, other ancient near Eastern languages, which of course, that's that kind of stuff is what this podcast is all about, taking difficult, sometimes technical concepts. Talking about them, translating them into kind of the language that everybody else speaks. So that project was fine. The issue is the direction that he goes with a lot of the theology. So Michael Heiser writes a book called Unseen Realms, which is seen as kind of a retrieval of the supernatural mindset and worldview of the Bible. Uh, there's a lot to be commended about that, uh, enterprise, about that intention. I do agree with part of what he has to say when he says that we've lost a lot of the supernatural context of the Bible. Um, but I think where he goes with it is a direction that we really ought not go and we'll dig into it. [00:03:43] Critique of Reformed Fringe Podcast Tony Arsenal: The reason this is coming up now is because recently there's been a series of articles and podcasts put out by a show called The Reformed Fringe. Uh, some if you're in the Telegram chat, which you can join at, uh, t Me slash Reformed Brotherhood. You've already seen some of this stuff. We've already talked about it a little bit. But the Reformed Fringe is a podcast that sort of tries to fill a space that's something like Haunted Cosmos, which we've talked about before. Um, fills sort of looking at the weird fringe kind of things in the world. Ghosts, paranormal activity, trying to explain it through a biblical, uh, lens or worldview. Again, that's a commendable. Effort. There are strange things that happen in our world that are not easily explainable or at all explainable by natural, uh, naturalistic means. And so coming to those things with the Bible as our, uh, rubric to instruct us on how the world works is a commendable thing. But again, this project, which is by and large, um, and we'll get into maybe, but by and large is just an extension of, um, Heiser's project really goes in directions that cause all sorts of problems down the road. So the podcast is, uh, run by a guy named Doug Van Dorn, who most of the audience probably hasn't heard of. I have had run-ins with Doug over the years. Um, the last time I ran into him actually was revolving around similar kinds of issues that I'm gonna be calling out today. Um, and it, it ended up with him kind of having to depart from the reform pub, uh, maybe to put it a little bit politely and, um. You know, he has, he has taken, he's theology, which was not explicitly reformed. Heiser was not a reformed guy. He had no claims to be a Calvinist in many ways. Uh, he was sort of anticon confessional in, in that he opposed not the idea of a faith statement, but he sort of purported to come to the Bible with no biases, with no tradition. He wanted to approach what he called the Naked Bible. That was actually the name of his podcast before he died a few years ago. And so what Doug Van Dorn is, has done who, uh, Doug is a claims to be a 1689 Reformed Baptist. He's a pastor in Colorado, I believe. Um, he has tried to take this divine counsel theology and bring it into the reformed world. So he comes at it with a, a slightly different angle, but for the most part, his conclusions are the same. And in many cases he just straight up steals ER's work and doesn't cite it, doesn't do much to, uh, articulate that this is not his original research. Um, so he's taken that and he's trying to bring it into the reformed world. And Heiser himself was actually quite influential when I was a, an admin in the reform pub. We would run into lots of, lots of young reformed guys. Who were really enamored with this and they really saw, he's project as sort of a return to a pure form of exo Jesus that really got at what the Hebrew was saying. And it tickled, I think, kind of an intellectual, uh, an intellectual itch that a lot of those guys had combined with sort of this desire for the new and novel, um, which is in itself can be pretty dangerous. To sort of make things a little bit more pressing, Heiser has teamed up with John Moffitt, who many of our listeners may know. Uh, he's one of the co-hosts and founders of the podcast, Theo Cast, uh, which otherwise is a perfectly fine podcast. Um, he's also a 1680 or claims to be a 1689 Reform Baptist. He's a pastor. Um, their podcast is sort of what you would get if you had, uh, and I don't mean this to be pejorative, although maybe it is a little pejorative. Theo cast is what you would get if you took r Scott Clark. Uh, you made it much less intellectual and careful, and then made it Baptist. And what I mean by that is Scott's whole project. In large part is to recover and to emphasize the law gospel distinction. Theo cast has taken that and sort of cranked it up to 11. Uh, and they have um, they have sort of moved away from a lot of the classical reform distinctions of the law itself, so they don't full on deny the third use of the law. But in practice they would say that, um, good works is no kind of evidence whatsoever for your, um, for your faith. It's no kind of evidence of your, your salvation, which of course are confessions themselves. Um, say that there is a kind of evidential value to assessing our good works within certain reason and con. So the show is otherwise orthodox. You know, I I, I recall hearing episodes where they were refuting things like EFS, um, but because of that, Moffitt brings with him sort of an air of credibility and an error in orthodoxy that, um, the show itself probably hasn't merited. If Doug just recorded, pushed, play and put it on the. I don't think there would've been too much, uh, too much of a following. He would've probably, you know, grabbed a couple people who heard it and thought it was interesting. But because Moffitt has such a following on Theo cast, he brings with him a large audience, and that makes it particularly dangerous because his name attached to it makes it more widespread. It makes it feel like it's safer. And so I think a lot of people, uh, assume that what he's saying is orthodox and good. And I think what we'll find out is, is that it's not. So I think that's enough ProGo. [00:09:10] Elohim and Its Implications Tony Arsenal: I'm gonna go ahead and, and jump into explaining kind of what the theology that we're talking about is and, and what the problems are. So this all started kicked off, uh, with a series of podcast episodes and the first episode, and again, I don't have the specific titles here. I'll put a bibliography in the show notes on this one just so you have links to all the relevant episodes. Um, this all kind of kicked off with a podcast episode called something like The History of the Word God, or something like that. And, um, basically what Moffitt and Van Dorn want to do is they wanna look at the word Elohim in the Bible, which of course is a plural noun. Uh, in Hebrew, the, the suffix, just like in English, we might add an S or an ES, um, to a word to make it plural. Or in Greek, it's usually, if it's a masculine, uh, noun, it's, it's an oi or an omicron iota that sort of always sound at the end. Um, or when we, we talk about Latin, you have, you have like, um, you add the I at the end, so we say octopi instead of octopuses or something like that. Cacti instead of cactus. Although both of those are kind of pig Latins, um, in, in Hebrew for, uh, for masculine nouns. The suffix that you add to make it plural, is that eam sound. It's a, it's an Im if you transliterate in English. So the word Elohim is a plural of the original noun El which is a proper name for a eury deity. But it came to just be the singular word for, for God. Um, and, and in non-biblical language, we would say in a God. Um, and we do see in English, there are in, in Hebrew, in the Bible, there are places where we see the singular of this. It's kind of an older form, so it doesn't show up as much. Um, but by and large when we see the word Elohim in the Bible. Something like, uh, outta 2,600 references or more than 2,600 references in the Bible. Um, the word Elohim is associated with a single, a singular noun, and it only refers to the God of Israel. What Moffitt and Van Dorn want to do is they want to take this word and they wanna define it based on the abnormal. Uh, use of it. So the vast minority, minority of cases in the Old Testament, the word Elohim refers to the gods or to a non, like what we might say is lower G God, either like the God, Baal, or some sort of collective reference to the gods, the gods of the nation, or something like that. They wanna take the fact that there is this variation in the way the word is used and sort of radically redefine how the Bible uses it. And this, this is what I call and what a lot of people would call an etymological fallacy. So what they're doing is, instead of, uh, looking at the word and defining it based on how it's used in an, in an overwhelming fashion, they're looking at sort of the etymology of the word. And then they're using the fact that there are, uh, some pretty Dr. Dramatically minority cases where the word is used in a different way and they wanna redefine it and say, in, in all or most cases in the Bible actually. This is what the word means. So they look at the word L, which from its root has something to do probably with the, with the word for power or something like that. Um, they wanna look at it. And, you know, if you read someone like Vos in Reformed dogmatics in his volume one, he talks about how when we see the name Elohim for God, it denotes or, or refers to his sort of power, his omnipotence, which is all good and fine, just like we would say Yahweh. Uh, as a proper name refers to God sort of in his covenant role. It's his covenant name, his, his intimate, familial name that he shares, uh, with his people or he reveals to his people. Elohim is a more abstract name and it refers to God's power. Usually we see it in relation to his cre creation. So in Genesis one, um, when it's God created, it's Elohim created, which is also important and relevant for, for later. So what they wanna do is they want to say that Elohim actually. What Act Elohim actually means is it's a reference to a class of beings, spiritual beings, and that that it means sort of any spiritual being that has some type of supernatural power or enhanced power, some sort of spiritual power. They do this by saying that the noun is not an ontological noun, it's actually like a noun of function. Um, so like we would say a, a good example in English would be a painter that's a noun of function. It's a title of function. It any person could be called a painter if they engage in the verbal action of painting. And so what they're saying is that any being that engages in the action of having power. Is, uh, is an Elohim. And so that would include, in narrating at least, it would include angels, demons. Uh, I, you know, I don't know that they've said this explicitly, but I, I think Heiser would've included things like ghosts, disembodied spirits, um, humans in sort of the intermediary state might be considered Elohim humans in the, in the, um, this. Life are called Elohim, uh, in some instances. So, so this is where the Divine Council theology comes from, and that comes from Psalm 82, I think, where there's this council of Elohim that, that Yahweh seems to be speaking to and deliberating with. Or you look at Joe, where the sons of God come and they sort of pulled court in God's heavenly presence. So he would say those are examples where the, the collected Elohim. God being one of the Elohim are somehow gathered in this heavenly divine counsel. Now what this does is just devastating to Christian theology is it takes God who exists in a class of one. The, the, the God of the universe is, is the only uncreated entity in all of of the world. And so when we start to talk, and this is ironic, when we start to talk about the ways to divide up the world, the ancient world, the, the pagan world tended to divide the world between, um. Between spiritual and material. So think of g Gnostics where matter was bad and spirit was good. Or even think of something like, um, the Greek pantheons, the Greek, um, Greek religion, like ancient Greek mythology. You have sort of the spirits and the spiritual world and the gods inhabit a spiritual, have a spiritual existence for the most part. And then you have the physical world where kind of people live, uh, at least while they're alive. Christianity and, and Judaism, at least Biblical Judaism. On the other hand, the, the primary distinction is not between spiritual and matter. There is of course that distinction. There are humans, which are spiritual and material. There are animals which are entirely material, and then there are angels which are entirely spiritual. And so we would say that God is spiritual. So that is a distinction in the world. But the primary distinction when we're talking about the most absolute line is the distinction between the, the uncreated creator and his creation. So what Moffitt, Moffitt and Van Dorn do is instead of observing that biblical distinction, which really all of Christian theology and Christian monotheism rests on, they wanna say that instead, the distinction is between the. Um, is between the Elohim as the sort of spiritual beings and then sort of everything else of the created world, and so they wouldn't deny that God, that Yahweh is. The uncreated creator of all things, but they would say he's an uncreated Elohim and that there is a class of created Elohim. So I don't, I don't think you have to go too far down this road to see what this does. It puts God on the same level as his creatures in at least one way. Um, and I think we'll find out later, uh, as we talk through this, actually it does it in a couple ways that are really, uh, really can be problematic as we go. And so, uh, just let me be clear if all that, if all that Moffitt and Van Dorn were saying, if, if all they said was, um, we can use the word Elohim to describe any creature. Or God that doesn't have a body. Elohim is a synonym for the word spirit. Um, that wouldn't be the wisest way to speak, I don't think. It wouldn't be the, the most, um, felicitous or safe way to talk about the distinction. But it wouldn't be controversial. There'd be nothing wrong with that. It'd just be using a different word. It'd be like if I said, well, instead of the word spirit, I'm gonna use the word bibly bop, you know? So we have. We have God who is bibly bop, and we have the angels who is bibly bop, and humans are biblio bop. And also material, again, not the safest way to talk. There's no reason to use that alternative language when the Bible gives us perfectly legitimate language. Um, but it wouldn't be a problem. But Moffit and Van Dorn go. Way past this and maybe they don't realize it. I've asked them on Twitter, I asked them to clarify. I didn't get a response. So if they are hearing this, which maybe they will, maybe they won't. If they're hearing this, I would really love to get some clarification on some of these questions because I would love nothing more than to be able to say that this was all a big misunderstanding and that actually all they're saying is that there is this spiritual existence. That, um, we can put all things that are spirit without a body or spirit with a body. We can put all those in the same category and call that category Elohim. Again, I don't think that's safe, but if that's all they were doing, that would be fine. But we see in their episodes, and I'm gonna try to grab some quotes, um, from, from some of the articles I've written. But again, go read the articles because this goes way more in depth. It's got timestamps of it. It's got links to their episodes. Don't take my word for it. Go listen to their. Words and, and check, you know, check my math on this. But what they do is they actually start to, in, in an attempt to justify why it's okay to put God in the same category as his creatures. Um, and in at least one way, they start to make some weird statements that have a lot of systematic theology, um, implications that are, are just really, really risky. So, for example, one of the ways that they try to kind of explain this, I'm gonna pull, pull the article that I wrote up here. So, great podcasting. [00:19:34] Communicable vs. Incommunicable Attributes Tony Arsenal: Um, one of the ways they start to try to do this is again, they, they wanna say they use this distinction between incommunicable and communicable attributes, right? So in, in Christian theology, classically speaking, a communicable attribute of God is an attribute that he shares or could share with. A creature and primarily we're talking, you know, we're talking about attributes that he shares with his image bearers. So something like, um, love. Love is a communicable attribute. Our love is different than God's love, but when we say love, we're talking about the same basic category of things God loves differently than we do. But love and in a human sense, and love in a, in a divine sense, are still talking about the same thing. There's a point of contact there. Um, an incommunicable attribute would be something like, um, something like eternity. Right. Eternity is not just an extended infinite sequence of time. If it was, he could share that with us. Um, but eternity or infinity is an entirely different way of existing than a creature could ever, could ever exist in divine Simplicity is another example. Um, God could not make humans simple because simplicity entails all sorts of things like infinity. Um, eternality. Um, you know, omnipresence, omni, potent, all of these things are entailed by simplicity. So God could not make a creature infinite because in order for it to be infinite, it would have to be God. Uh, God could not make a creature simple, uh, in the, in the sense of no composition of parts. Uh, because that would mean that that creature is actually God and has no composer. So, so those would be the classic, uh, incommunicable attributes and omnipotence. Is considered, although it's a little bit weird, it sort of crosses the line in some ways. But omnipotence is considered. An incommunicable attribute. God cannot share his omnipotence with a creature because you can't have two omnipotence. Um, if you have two omnipotence, then those two omnipotence cancel each other out in some sense. If God, and, and, and he has a will, God wills one thing, and then I as a creature, if he shared his omnipotence with me, somehow willed a different thing, then we would no longer be, neither of us would be omnipotent. Where this goes sideways with Moffitt and Vandorn is rather than respect omnipotence as a an incommunicable attribute, they say that the attribute or the word Elohim denotes power or might, and that is a communicable attribute. So God does give us a certain level of power. He allows us a certain level of agency. He grants that to us. Again, I'm not even sure that we would call that an an. A communicable attribute. Um, but in a sense, I guess it is. And so they say here, um, Elohim does not mean omnipotent. It means power. It's not an incommunicable attribute. It's a communicable attribute that all kinds of entities could possess. So they're saying that the word, um, the word Elohim, uh, in the Bible denotes that a. A, an entity possesses a certain kind of power or acts in a certain role of executing a certain kind of power. And that doesn't mean omnipotence. It means it means potence. It means some sort of power. And so that that wielding power attribute that. Uh, being a, being that wields power, that attribute, whatever we want to call it, however we want to phrase it, that is a communicable attribute that God shares. He communicates that attribute to all other beings in the class of Elohim. Now, let's just back that up for a second. Um, this still would mean that God has to be the creator and they don't deny that, but it would still mean that God, prior to creation. Was an Elohim in a category of one, and then somehow he created a class and because he's extended. This attribute of wielding power, say power wielder, to try to make it actually more of an attribute. He's extended this attribute of power wielder to uncreate or to created angels, demons, human spirits, whatever other spiritual entities there might be. They would bring in things like principalities, powers, they have a whole, in other, other contexts, they'll talk about this whole different bifurcation of types of spiritual beings that I think is a little speculative, but not a big deal. He extends this power wielder attribute to these created categories. And instead of this now creating a separate category of power wields who are not God, it now is uh, he expands this category of one to now include all sorts of other things, which again, as you can, you can imagine, just runs into problems. And so the, again, this, this word Elohim appears over 2,600 times, and of these instances, 230 of them refer to the God of Israel. So the idea that that. This word is not used specifically as a reference to the God of Israel, or should not be thought of as uniquely titling or almost exclusively titling God. The God of Israel just doesn't really match the data, but it's also just really poor Exogenic method. So rather than take the predominant usage and look at the context. Understanding that the predominant usage is the predominant usage. Instead, we're gonna go back and say, well, these, these minority, these 300 or so cases outside, and not even all 300 of them are used the same way, but these 300 or so cases of them not referring to the God of Israel, we're gonna use that to redefine the word. Its entirety. It's just poor. It's just poor scholarship. It's overly speculative. Um, I haven't read much of. He's work on this in the primary sources. Um, I, I would venture a guess that Heiser makes a much more robust argument than this. And this is part of the problem. When you take an already speculative, already dangerous theology and you try to pop popularize it when you just don't have the same chops that he did, uh, you end up really making some crass, simplistic arguments that just make you look a little silly. To think we can take 200 or 2,600 instances and redefine 2 20, 300 of them. By the way, it's used 300 of the times Just doesn't make any sense. So it again, if, if all we are saying is that God is spiritual and angels are spiritual and so there is some point of affinity between the two, then that would be okay. That wouldn't be a problem. Again, there's some risk in using the word Elohim in that. Sort of placeholder, but, um, that would be a semantic discussion. What they're doing is far, far deeper and far more problematic than that. [00:26:30] Systematic Theology Concerns Tony Arsenal: And so the, the other thing they do, um, that I think is really dangerous, and I don't have all of the, I haven't finished this article yet, so I don't have all of the timestamps in front of me to, to, to get there, is in attempting to justify this Moffitt, uh, in, in one of the other episodes, he turns to the incarnation as a sort of model. And so he'll say that, you know, the son of God is divine, but he's also human. And the fact that he's human, uh, doesn't therefore mean he's not also uniquely the uncreated creator. I would assume everyone hearing this who listens to this show, uh, which has done many, many episodes on Christology, it's one of our pet projects, is just throwing their listening device across the room because what Moffitt seems to miss entirely is that Christ is not, the sun is not in the category of human. Uh, sort of in a simple sense, Christ is in the category of human because he assumes to himself a second created nature. So what, what the, the analogy he's trying to draw is if the sun can be human without ceasing to be the unique one, uncreated God, then so also can, the whole trinity, I guess, can also be Elohim without ceasing to be the one uncreated God. He even goes so far as to say that there is Uncreated Elohim, and then there is created Elohim, and they're all in the category of Elohim, but because there's this commonality, we should still consider that class. And he draws that distinction or he draws the implication that. Um, there's somehow uncreated humanity in Christ, which is a whole different ball of worms that we won't get into. But in, in drawing this analogy, he sort of shows that he really doesn't understand the hypostatic union. He doesn't understand the incarnation, or if he does, he's really making a poor comparison because in the hypostatic union it's not as though the son, uh, as divinity, the son, as the one uncreated. God simply adds to himself in a raw sense and merges. Uh, he doesn't become part of the category of human without taking on a second nature. And then now we are even getting into some inconsistencies. Is human an ontological category or is that a category of function? Are there other categories of function, uh, other creatures in existence that the category of function human might fit? So I think you can see that this just is not a self consistent. Um, a self-consistent system and it leads to all these weird implications. Um, you know, and then they'll even go on to talk about how the Son is the angel of the Lord. I'm not gonna get into a lot of it here, and I agree with that thesis that the, when we see the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, in the vast majority of cases, we're probably seeing a pre-incarnate appearance of, um, of the second person of the Trinity. They go so far as to say that this is actually a sort of. Incarnation or a sort of hypostatic union of the Elohim nature. So they, they, they draw this distinction, or they draw this parallel between created Elohim and Uncreated Elohim, and they, they argue again, I think implicitly, but in some instances it's almost, it's almost explicit that the son in, in being the angel of the Lord, takes on the uncreated or takes on the created Elohim nature. It's, it's really, um, it's really problematic. So now we have the son who is, uh, sort of hypostatic united to the unc, to the created Elohim nature, and then also is hypostatic united to the human nature. Um, it, it really just gets messy and it confuses categories in a way that is not helpful. And if I'm just being frank, a lot of the younger reformed guys. And when I say younger, I'm talking, maybe I'm projecting back to when I was a younger reform guy, um, I'm talking about people in their mid twenties to maybe early thirties, right? The, the people who were maybe the second or third generation of the young restless reform guys, they didn't necessarily learn, uh, ref young restless reform theology directly from RC Sproul. You know, they weren't the first generation. Um, and, and maybe their pastors weren't the first generation, but, but maybe their pastors were the second generation and now they're learning it from their pastors. So you might think of 'em as like the third generation, to be frank, they don't usually have a great grasp on some of these systematic theology categories as part of why. Jesse and I do this podcast, and part of why we cover the same topic over and over again, part of why we're gonna go through this parable series. But when we're done, we're probably gonna go back and start over with systematic theology. We're gonna go back, we're gonna go through another confession. That's why we spent, we spent like six years going through systematic theology. And almost immediately went back to the Scott's confession and did most of it all over again because these truths need to be taught again and again and again. This is part of what Jude is talking about when he says, we have to contend for the faith. It's not just fighting with people online. It's not just polemics or apologetics. It is reteaching and handing down the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Again, and this is perhaps, and this is the last point I'll make. This is perhaps the most. Telling a reason we should be weary and suspicious of this theology. Paul, in, uh, one of the letters to Timothy, second Timothy, maybe he says, follow the pattern of the sound words that you heard from me. He's not talking about the scriptures. He doesn't say follow the sound words that I'm writing to you. He's referring to a body of doctrine sometimes. The Bible calls it the faith, right? Jude says to contend for the faith. There's this body of doctrine that is the teaching of the apostles, and it is encapsulated in this sort of set pattern of words. Erin A is called it the rule of faith or the regular fide, right? This is where we get things like the Nicean Creed or the Hanian Creed. Why we have creeds and confessions is because we don't need to reinvent the wheel and rather than rely on the safe time-tested words and concepts that have been proven and validated, and attacked and defended and, and um, have been victorious for hundreds and thousands of years, rather than rely on those. Moffitt and Van Doran think it is smarter and safer to depart from the pattern of sound words rather than to keep the pattern of sound words because they think that they are able to look at the Bible the way basically no one ever has in the 2000 years of the church and find something they haven't. I don't wanna be too bombastic. Um, I don't, I don't know either of them. Well, um, from what I can tell, what I've heard of their professions of faith, uh, they're, they're Christian believers. They love the Lord and are very confused. But these teachings are pagan. This is, we're talking about returning to a world of, of populated by spiritual beings. And God is kind of just on the highest part of the totem pole, and maybe there's a firm line between his place on the totem pole and the, the next level down. Maybe there is, um, gets a little bit less firm of a line when we're talking about Jesus, right? So there's some potential Arian implications there that the son, uh, is not the highest deity he is. He's like the father in some ways, but he, you know, in his sort of original form is like creatures in other ways. Um, we're just returning to something that the early church fought hard to get rid of when they came out of their pagan culture. When we started to see Greeks convert to Christianity, they had to figure out how do we come out of our polytheistic culture, and this is where we get the best defenses of monotheism. Jewish Christians didn't have to argue for monotheism because all the Jewish Christians already were monotheists in a biblical sense. The Greek Christians had to fight this stuff. Justin Martyr had to fight this stuff. Athanasius and the Cappadocian fathers had to fight this stuff constantly pushing back against the background Greek culture. And Moffitt and Van Dorn wanna point to that and say, see, really, they're just Greeks in disguise and in the reality is Athanasius and the cap oceans, were fighting against the theology that is making a resurgence in this divine council theory. [00:34:55] Conclusion and Call to Action Tony Arsenal: So I think that's enough for now. Please. Again, I'm writing a long series on this. I don't know how long it's gonna take. I think it's gonna be probably 10 or 13, 10 to 13 articles. It's, it's gonna be a pretty extensive project. But go read them. Go look at them, listen to their episodes, read their articles, and then you compare that to the word of God, has what I said made more sense or does what they make more sense. So I'll leave you with that. The dog is losing her mind. And uh, with that honor, everyone love the brotherhood.

Dan Kent considers RC Sproul's self-loathing and how that might have influenced the development of his theology—including his claim: "What we are saved from, in Biblical terms of salvation, is God Himself."  Episode 38 YouTube Channel: Surprising God Dan's books: Confident Humility The Training of KX12 Send Questions To: Surprising God on X: @SurprisingGodFacebook: SurprisingGod Dan on X: @thatdankent

Series: Signs & GloryTitle: How Do We Become People of the Towel?Subtitle: Scripture: John 13:1-17Philippians 2:6-8Mark 10:45Bottom line: We become people of the towel when we believe Jesus' love, receive his cleansing, and follow his example.INTRODUCTIONCONTEXTSERMON OUTLINECONCLUSIONNOTESOUTLINESQUESTIONS TO CONSIDER DISCUSSION QUESTIONSMAIN REFERENCES USEDOpening prayer: Lord God, help us grow to be and do like Jesus, while abiding in him and leading others to do the same. INTRODUCTION“In 2003, when the United States invaded Iraq, I sat glued to my television set for days and watched the amazing footage that was broadcast. One scene that stands out in my mind from those days was the jubilant celebration of the Iraqi people as U.S. Marines pulled down a forty-foot statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad. The statue was torn from its pedestal and dragged through the streets, and children were shown riding on the head of the statue as if it were a sled. But I also remember the way in which the people of Iraq used their shoes or their sandals to pound against the statue and the posters of Saddam that were still being displayed in Baghdad. The commentators explained that among the Iraqi people, to beat a person or even a person's image with one's shoe is to show the deepest possible form of contempt for that person...The Iraqi people's actions helped me understand the depth of lowliness to which Jesus stooped when He handled His disciples' filthy feet in this ritual of cleansing. We have already discussed the fact that in antiquity, when a rabbi had disciples, they typically acted as his servants. However, they were never required to wash the rabbi's feet; that task was reserved for slaves. But even some slaves were spared this task. Within Israel, if a Jewish person had a Jewish slave, the slave owner was not permitted to require that slave to wash his feet. Only a Gentile slave could be required to perform such a menial task. So the fact that Jesus Himself undertook this task, and that He did it during Holy Week, fills this narrative with theological and ethical significance for us.”John - An Expositional Commentary, R.C. SproulBottom line: We become people of the towel when we believe Jesus' love, receive his cleansing, and follow his example.CONTEXT"Jesus had entered Jerusalem on Sunday, and on Monday had cleansed the temple. Tuesday was a day of conflict as the religious leaders sought to trip Him up and get evidence to arrest Him. These events are recorded in Matthew 21–25. Wednesday was probably a day of rest, but on Thursday He met in the Upper Room with His disciples in order to observe Passover...What was this divinely appointed “hour”? It was the time when He would be glorified through His death, resurrection, and ascension. From the human point of view, it meant suffering; but from the divine point of view, it meant glory."Wiersbe, W. W. (1996). The Bible exposition commentary (Vol. 1, p. 344). Victor Books.OUTLINE (w/ help from Kent Hughes and ChatGPT)I. Believe the Heart of His Love (John 13:1–3)• Jesus loved His own “to the end” — pointing to the cross (Romans 5:8).• His mission has always been loving service: "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45• Application: You cannot serve others well until you rest secure in Jesus' agape love for you.II. Be Washed by His Cleansing (John 13:4–11)• Jesus lays aside His garment and stoops to wash dirty feet — a preview of the cross.• Peter resists, but Jesus insists: “Unless I wash you, you have no share with me.”• Only the Servant who came to save (Luke 19:10) can cleanse us fully.• Application: Humble service flows only from hearts first cleansed by Jesus' sacrifice.III. Follow His Example in Humble Service (John 13:12–17)• After washing, He asks: “Do you understand what I have done to you?”• If the Lord and Teacher has washed feet, we must do likewise.• Paul echoes this: “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus… He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:5–8).• Application: Knowing His love and cleansing, we pick up the towel and bless others through ordinary, humble acts of service.⸻"The Upper Room Discourse begins with a dramatic call to follow Christ's example as a servant--to be people of the towel." -Hughes"How do we become people of the towel?We must observe the marvelous example of our foot-washing Lord and Savior and then listen to Jesus' challenge: 'If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.'Perhaps most important, we must have the quality of Jesus' heart. 'Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.'Finally, we become people of the towel by realizing who we are. The power, the impetus, and the grace to wash one another's feet is proportionate not only to how we see Jesus but how we see ourselves. Our Lord saw himself as King of kings, and he washed the disciples' feet. Recovery of a kingly consciousness will hallow and refine our entire lives. We are 'a royal priesthood.' (1 Peter 2:9)" -Hughes"If you know these things, blessed areyou if you do them." John 13:17The Heart of the Servant (13:1-3)"The final sentence gives us his heart: "Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end." The servant's heart is a heart of love. A story about Czar Nicholas I of Russia tells us something of that love. The czar was greatly interested in a young man because he had been friends with the young man's father. When that young man came of age, Czar Nicholas gave him a fine position in the army. He also stationed him in a place of responsibility at one of the great fortresses of Russia. The young man was responsible for the monies and finances of a particular division of the army.The young man did quite well at first, but as time went along, he became quite a gambler. Before long he had gambled his entire fortune away. He borrowed from the treasury and also gambled that away, a few rubles at a time.One day he heard there was going to be an audit of the books the next day. He went to the safe, took out his ledger, and figured out how much money he had, then subtracted the amount he had taken. As he sat at the table, overwhelmed at the astronomical debt, he took out his pen and wrote, "A great debt, who can pay?" Not willing to go through the shame of what would happen the next day, he took out his revolver and covenanted with himself that at the stroke of midnight he would take his life.It was a warm and drowsy night, and as the young man sat at the table, he dozed off. Now, Czar Nicholas had a habit of putting on a common soldier's uniform and visiting some of his outposts. On that very night he came to that particular great fortress, and as he inspected it, he saw a light on in one of the rooms. He knocked on the door, but no one answered. He tried the latch, opened the door, and went in. There was the young man. The czar recognized him immediately. When he saw the note on the table and the ledgers laid out, his first impulse was to wake the young man and arrest him. But, overtaken with a wave of generosity, he instead took the pen that had fallen out of the soldier's hand and wrote one word on the paper, then tiptoed out of the room.About an hour later the young man woke up and reached for his revolver, realizing that it was much after twelve. Then his eyes fell upon his note: "A great debt, who can pay?" He saw immediately that one word had been added -"Nicholas." The young man dropped the gun, ran to the files, thumbed through some correspondence, and found the czar's signature. The note was authentic! The realization struck him —"The czar has been here and knows all my guilt. But he has undertaken my debt, and I will not have to die." The young man trusted in the czar's word, and sure enough, the needed monies came?The czar's love, paying the price for his guilty young friend, was only a faint shadow of the atoning love of Christ. Nicholas's deed was an easy matter for him —as easy as signing his name. But the atoning love of Jesus cost him everything!The tenses at the end of verse 1, "having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end," means that in the whole range of Christ's contact with his disciples he loved them!" -HughesThe Example of the Servant (13:4-11)The Challenge of the Servant (13:12-17)"According to John, the Lord gave the disciples two explanations of his washing of their feet - one while he was engaged in washing them, and the other after he had taken his place with them at the supper table again. The former, as we have seen, is theological in character: the foot-washing symbolizes Jesus' humbling himself to endure the death of the cross and the cleansing efficacy of his death for the believer. The latter, unfolded in verses 12-17, is practical in character: Jesus has washed their feet in order that from his example they may learn to perform similar service one for another.There is no incongruity between the two explanations; it is quite unnecessary to suppose that they must be due to two different authors. The second explanation is very much in line with Luke's account of the conversation which took place between the Lord and the disciples at the Last Supper (Luke 22:24-27), in which he drew their attention to his own example; but in Mark's counterpart to that conversation, which appears in an earlier context (Mark 10:35-45), Jesus' example of lowly service is brought into the closest association with the sacrifice of the cross: if any one of their number wants to be first, he 'must be slave of all' - because 'the Son of man also came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many'. The close association of the two themes in this Johannine context, accordingly, is perfectly natural`..." -FF BruceJudas was an unbeliever (John 6:64–71), so he did not have a “shield of faith” to use to ward off Satan's attacks...Even in His humiliation, our Lord had all things through His Father. He was poor and yet He was rich. Because Jesus knew who He was, where He came from, what He had, and where He was going, He was complete master of the situation. You and I as believers know that we have been born of God, that we are one day going to God, and that in Christ we have all things; therefore, we ought to be able to follow our Lord's example and serve others...What Jesus knew helped determine what Jesus did (John 13:4–5)...The Father had put all things into the Son's hands, yet Jesus picked up a towel and a basin! His humility was not born of poverty, but of riches. He was rich, yet He became poor (2 Cor. 8:9). A Malay proverb says, “The fuller the ear is of rice-grain, the lower it bends.”...Jesus was the Sovereign, yet He took the place of a servant. He had all things in His hands, yet He picked up a towel...It has well been said that humility is not thinking meanly of yourself; it is simply not thinking of yourself at all. True humility grows out of our relationship with the Father.Wiersbe, W. W. (1996). The Bible exposition commentary (Vol. 1, p. 345). Victor Books.Rick Warren used to say, "Humility isn't thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less."We today, just like the disciples that night, desperately need this lesson on humility. The church is filled with a worldly spirit of competition and criticism as believers vie with one another to see who is the greatest. We are growing in knowledge, but not in grace (see 2 Peter 3:18). “Humility is the only soil in which the graces root,” wrote Andrew Murray. “The lack of humility is the sufficient explanation of every defect and failure.”The word translated “wash” in John 13:5–6, 8, 12, and 14 is nipto and means “to wash a part of the body.” But the word translated “washed” in John 13:10 is louo and means “to bathe all over.” The distinction is important, for Jesus was trying to teach His disciples the importance of a holy walk.When the sinner trusts the Saviour, he is “bathed all over” and his sins are washed away and forgiven (see 1 Cor. 6:9–11; Titus 3:3–7; and Rev. 1:5). “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more” (Heb. 10:17). However, as the believer walks in this world, it is easy to become defiled. He does not need to be bathed all over again; he simply needs to have that defilement cleansed away. God promises to cleanse us when we confess our sins to Him (1 John 1:9).But why is it so important that we “keep our feet clean”? Because if we are defiled, we cannot have communion with our Lord. “If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with Me” (John 13:8). The word translated “part” is meros, and it carries the meaning here of “participation, having a share in someone or something.” When God “bathes us all over” in salvation, He brings about our union with Christ; and that is a settled relationship that cannot change. (The verb wash in John 13:10 is in the perfect tense. It is settled once and for all.) However, our communion with Christ depends on our keeping ourselves “unspotted from the world” (James 1:27). If we permit unconfessed sin in our lives, we hinder our walk with the Lord; and that is when we need to have our feet washed.Wiersbe, W. W. (1996). The Bible exposition commentary (Vol. 1, p. 346). Victor Books.Referring to Jesus humbling himself and cf. to Philippians 2:5-9, RC Sproul writes, “It was not His deity but His dignity that Jesus laid aside. He emptied Himself of the glory that He enjoyed with His Father from all eternity. He laid aside His prerogatives as the second person of the Trinity. For the sake of His people, He descended from glory to lay down His life.”“That is proper, for Jesus was not instituting a sacrament that was to be repeated on a regular basis among the people of God, and we know that for this reason: the central significance of Jesus' washing of His disciples' feet has to do with baptism, which is the sacrament of the entrance into the new covenant. Baptism signifies many things, but at the very heart of the symbolism of baptism is the idea of cleansing” -R.C. Sproul“He knew who would betray him, but He washed all their feet, even the feet of Judas, but not without the warning that the cleansing He spoke of would not apply to every one of them.”“Those who give themselves in service to others find deep joy in it.”Excerpt FromJohn - An Expositional CommentaryR.C. SproulCONCLUSION"The Upper Room Discourse begins with a dramatic call to follow Christ's example as a servant--to be people of the towel." -HughesHow do we become people of the towel?We must observe the marvelous example of our foot-washing Lord and Savior and then listen to Jesus' challenge: 'If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.'Perhaps most important, we must have gthe quality of Jesus' heart. 'Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.'Finally, we become people of the towel by realizing who we are. The power, the impetus, and the grace to wash one another's feet is proportionate not only to how we see Jesus but how we see ourselves. Our Lord saw himself as King of kings, and he washed the disciples' feet. Recovery of a kingly consciousness will hallow and refine our entire lives. We are 'a royal priesthood.' (1 Peter 2:9)"If you know these things, blessed areyou if you do them." John 13:17This basic truth of Christian living is beautifully illustrated in the Old Testament priesthood. When the priest was consecrated, he was bathed all over (Ex. 29:4), and that experience was never repeated. However, during his daily ministry, he became defiled; so it was necessary that he wash his hands and feet at the brass laver in the courtyard (Ex. 30:18–21). Only then could he enter the holy place and trim the lamps, eat the holy bread, or burn the incense...We can learn an important lesson from Peter: don't question the Lord's will or work, and don't try to change it. He knows what He is doing...John was careful to point out that Peter and Judas were in a different relationship with Jesus. Yes, Jesus washed Judas' feet! But it did Judas no good because he had not been bathed all over. Some people teach that Judas was a saved man who sinned away his salvation, but that is not what Jesus said. Our Lord made it very clear that Judas had never been cleansed from his sins and was an unbeliever (John 6:64–71)...John 13:17 is the key—“If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.” The sequence is important: humbleness, holiness, then happiness. Aristotle defined happiness as “good fortune joined to virtue … a life that is both agreeable and secure.” That might do for a philosopher, but it will never do for a Christian believer! Happiness is the by-product of a life that is lived in the will of God. When we humbly serve others, walk in God's paths of holiness, and do what He tells us, then we will enjoy happiness...The servant (slave) is not greater than his master; so, if the master becomes a slave, where does that put the slave? On the same level as the master! By becoming a servant, our Lord did not push us down: He lifted us up! He dignified sacrifice and service. You must keep in mind that the Romans had no use for humility, and the Greeks despised manual labor. Jesus combined these two when He washed the disciples' feet. The world asks, “How many people work for you?” but the Lord asks, “For how many people do you work?" When I was ministering at a conference in Kenya, an African believer shared one of their proverbs with me: “The chief is servant of all.” How true it is that we need leaders who will serve and servants who will lead. G.K. Chesterton said that a really great man is one who makes others feel great, and Jesus did this with His disciples by teaching them to serve...Be sure to keep these lessons in their proper sequence: humbleness, holiness, happiness. Submit to the Father, keep your life clean, and serve others. This is God's formula for true spiritual joy.Wiersbe, W. W. (1996). The Bible exposition commentary (Vol. 1, p. 347). Victor Books.“We can transfer that warning to everyone reading this book. If you are reading this and have not been washed by Christ, you will have no part with Him in the Father's house. Jesus was preparing His disciples for that cleansing that would once and for all deliver them from their sin” -R.C. Sproul“We've already seen Jesus making the point in the final weeks of His life, “Unless you're willing to participate in My humiliation, you have no part in My exaltation.” Our very baptism is a sign not only of our being raised with Christ, but of our being buried with Christ. It is a sign that we join Him in His humiliation so that we may have a part in His glory.”“Jesus told Simon, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean” (v. 10a). In the ancient world, when a person took a bath, he was clean until he walked outside in the dust in his bare feet or in open sandals. He could keep the rest of his body relatively clean, but his feet got dirty quickly. That's why there was the ritual of the cleansing of the feet without having to take a complete bath. Jesus told Peter, “When I wash your feet, I make you clean all over.” One touch of the cleansing power of Christ cleanses us from all sin.” -RC SproulIllustration:In 1912, when the Titanic struck the iceberg, there weren't enough lifeboats. Hundreds were left in the freezing Atlantic waters. One survivor later testified that while clinging to debris, she heard a man swimming from person to person, shouting, “Are you saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!” That man was John Harper, a Scottish pastor. He gave away his life jacket to another passenger, and with his last breaths he pleaded with people to turn to Christ before they slipped under the waves.Connection to Sermon:Like those passengers, every one of us is sinking without Christ. The signs have been given, the call is clear—Jesus is the light of the world, sent not to condemn but to save. His words are life, but they will also be our judge. Don't harden your heart. Step into His light today while there is still time.INVITATIONWhat about you? Peter puts it all in perspective in his first sermon:““Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭36‬-‭39‬ ‭NIV‬‬How do we respond? Answer 2 questions:Take out a card or piece of paper right now. Write down the answer to these questions: What is God saying to me right now?What am I going to do about it? Write this down on a sheet of paper. What I hear you saying, Lord, is ___________________.[my name] is going to believe/do __________________________________________________ as a result.Finally, share this with your Home or Mission group this week when you gather as a testimony about what God is doing in your life. You don't have to get too specific to give him praise.Lord's Supper, 1 Cor 11:23-26 is good passage.Also, say something like, "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again." (past, present, and future)PrayNOTES"In 1970 I was among 12,300 delegates to Inter-Varsity's Urbana conven-tion, where we heard John Stott give a masterful application of the truth of this passage. He told a story about Samuel Logan Brengle:In 1878 when William Booth's Salvation Army had just been so named, men from all over the world began to enlist. One man, who had once dreamed of himself as a bishop, crossed the Atlantic from America to England to enlist. He was a Methodist minister, Samuel Logan Brengle. And he now turned from a fine pastorate to join Booth's Salvation Army. Brengle later became the Army's first American-born commissioner. But at first Booth accepted his services reluctantly and grudgingly. Booth said to Brengle, "You've been your own boss too long." And in order to instill humility into Brengle, he set him to work cleaning the boots of the other trainees. And Brengle said to himself, "Have I followed my own fancy across the Atlantic in order to black boots?" And then as in a vision he saw Jesus bending over the feet of rough, unlettered fishermen. "Lord," he whispered, "You washed their feet: I will black their boots."If we are to count ourselves as followers of Christ, there must be humble service in our lives. We must be people of the towel." -Hughes"Perhaps as good a commentary as any on our passage is supplied by the following paragraph from the biography of Robert Cleaver Chapman:No task was too lowly for Chapman. Visitors were particularly impressed by his habit of cleaning the boots and shoes of his guests.Indeed, it was on this point he met with most resistance, for those who stayed with him were conscious that despite the simplicity of his house he was a man of good breeding, and when they had heard him minister the Word with gracious authority, they were extremely sensitive about allowing him to perform so menial a task for them. But he was not to be resisted. On one occasion a gentleman, having regard no doubt to his host's gentle birth and high spiritual standing, refused at first to let him take away his boots. 'T insist', was the firm reply. 'In former days it was the practice to wash the saints' feet. Now that this is no longer the custom, I do the nearest thing, and clean their shoes." -FF BruceOUTLINESee aboveQUESTIONS TO CONSIDERWhat do I want them to know? Why do I want them to know it?What do I want them to do?Why do I want them to do it?How do they do this?DISCUSSION QUESTIONSDiscovery Bible Study process: https://www.dbsguide.org/Read the passage together.Retell the story in your own words.Discovery the storyWhat does this story tell me about God?What does this story tell me about people?If this is really true, what should I do?What is God saying to you right now? (Write this down)What are you going to do about it? (Write this down)Who am I going to tell about this?Find our sermons, podcasts, discussion questions and notes at https://www.gracetoday.net/podcastAlternate Discussion Questions (by Jeff Vanderstelt): Based on this passage:Who is God?What has he done/is he doing/is he going to do?Who am I? (In light of 1 & 2)What do I do? (In light of who I am)How do I do it?Final Questions (Write this down)What is God saying to you right now? What are you going to do about it?MAIN REFERENCES USED“John,” by R. Kent Hughes, Preaching the Word Commentary, Edited by Kent HughesExalting Jesus in John, by Matt Carter & Josh WredbergThe Gospels & Epistles of John, FF BruceJohn, RC SproulJohn, KöstenbergerThe Gospel According to John, DA CarsonLet's Study John, Mark JohnstonThe Light Has Come, Leslie Newbigin (TLHC)The Visual Word, Patrick Schreiner (TVW)“Look at the Book” by John Piper (LATB)“The Bible Knowledge Commentary” by Walvoord, Zuck (BKC)“The Bible Exposition Commentary” by Warren Wiersbe (BEC)Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee (TTB)Outline Bible, D Willmington (OB)NIV Study Bible (NIVSB) https://www.biblica.com/resources/scholar-notes/niv-study-bible/Chronological Life Application Study Bible (NLT)ESV Study Bible (ESVSB) https://www.esv.orgThe Bible Project https://bibleproject.comNicky Gumbel bible reading plan app or via YouVersionClaude.aiChatGPT AIGrok AIPerplexity.aiGoogle Gemini AI

This classic episode begins with defining and defending isolationist foreign policy, moves to an exposition on the blessings of being my father's son, and concludes with counsel on how to write well.

Today's classic episode from 2020 includes the story of my first trip to the golf course with my father. WE also consider the thief on the cross and the call to clean up our ethics.

Pastor Cory Wing personally honors John MacArthur and the legacy he leaves behind, as well as discusses the impact John, RC Sproul, and Billy Graham had on his life.

Pastor Cory Wing personally honors John MacArthur and the legacy he leaves behind, as well as discusses the impact John, RC Sproul, and Billy Graham had on his life.

On today's program, St. Andrew's Chapel, the church founded by RC Sproul and now led by controversial pastor Burke Parsons, delays its long-awaited vote on leaving the Presbyterian Church in America. We'll have details. The murders of two women at a Kentucky church this month point to a troubling trend—and churches are seeking help to prevent more violence. We'll take a look. Plus, two years ago, Child Evangelism Fellowship set a goal of reaching 100 million children a year with the gospel through its ministry initiatives. MinistryWatch reporter Kim Roberts checked in for an update. First, former pastor Brady Boyd is starting a new ministry—just one month after being asked to resign from his Colorado Springs megachurch. The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today's program include Kim Roberts, Tony Mator, Kathryn Post, Jessica Eturralde, Henry Durand, and Christina Darnell. A special thanks to the Christian Index for contributing material for this week's podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I'm Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha: And I'm Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we'd like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today's program, St. Andrew's Chapel, the church founded by RC Sproul and now led by controversial pastor Burke Parsons, delays its long-awaited vote on leaving the Presbyterian Church in America. We'll have details. And, the murders of two women at a Kentucky church this month point to a troubling trend—and churches are seeking help to prevent more violence. We'll take a look. Plus, two years ago, Child Evangelism Fellowship set a goal of reaching 100 million children a year with the gospel through its ministry initiatives. MinistryWatch reporter Kim Roberts checked in for an update. Natasha: But first, former pastor Brady Boyd is starting a new ministry—just one month after being asked to resign from his Colorado Springs megachurch. Warren: Brady Boyd, who resigned as lead pastor of megachurch New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in June, has started a new ministry — Psalm 68 Ministries. Psalm 68 Ministries says its mission is to serve widows, orphans and the forgotten, as well as ministry leaders. Natasha: Boyd had served at Gateway Church, founded by Robert Morris, from 2001 to 2007. He claimed he didn't know that Morris had allegedly abused Cindy Clemishire when she was 12 years old. Warren: New Life elder Scott Palmer told the congregation on Sunday, June 22, that the elders believed Boyd's insistence that he didn't know Clemishire's age was untrue. It is the primary reason the elders asked Boyd to step down. Natasha: Next, St. Andrew's Chapel delays vote on leaving PCA. Warren: St. Andrew's Chapel in Sanford, Florida, was scheduled to vote on leaving the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) on Sunday, July 20. Instead, in something of a surprise move, the congregation referred the matter to the church's board of elders, also known as its session, to study the situation and return with a recommendation. Natasha: St. Andrew's was originally formed as an independent congregation in 1997 with Dr. R.C. Sproul as its founding pastor. It then joined the PCA in 2023. Warren: Its pastors are ordained by and members of the Central Florida Presbytery. In June, a judicial commission of the Central Florida Presbytery found St. Andrew's Senior Pastor Burk Parsons guilty of three charges and indefinitely suspended him from the duties of teaching elder in the PCA. He has appealed the judgment. Parsons is also a teaching fellow with Ligonier Ministries. The St. Andrew's session is expected to report back about the decision to leave the PCA...

Pastor John MacArthur passed away July 14th, 2025.Today Cory Wing personally honors this godly man and the legacy he leaves behind, as well as discusses the impact John MacArthur, RC Sproul, and Billy Graham had on his life.Watch all of our videos and subscribe to our channel for the latest content >HereHere

Send us a textThe tension between law and grace forms the cornerstone of authentic Christian theology, yet remains one of the most misunderstood concepts in churches today. When Martin Luther rediscovered Paul's radical message in Galatians 2, it sparked the Protestant Reformation and transformed Western Christianity forever.This powerful episode dives deep into why anything added to the gospel fatally corrupts it. Using a compelling analogy of the law as a threatening "mob boss" pursuing those who've received immunity through Christ, we explore how legalism continually attempts to reclaim territory in believers' lives. Paul's strategic introduction of uncircumcised Titus into Jerusalem becomes a masterclass in theological demonstration—proving that salvation requires nothing beyond grace through faith.Against the backdrop of remembering theological titans like John MacArthur and RC Sproul, we examine how their unwavering commitment to grace-centered theology mirrors Paul's refusal to compromise with the Judaizers. The episode highlights Paul's ingenious rhetorical strategy: bringing living proof (Titus) before the apostles to silence those who insisted circumcision was necessary for salvation.The implications reach far beyond ancient theological disputes. Today's Christians face similar pressures to add requirements to salvation—whether baptism, speaking in tongues, political alignment, or adherence to church traditions. This exploration of Galatians 2 provides clarity on distinguishing between salvation's foundation (grace alone through faith alone) and the Christian's response to that salvation.What core beliefs form your understanding of salvation? Have you unconsciously added requirements to what Christ has already accomplished? Join us for this transformative journey through scripture's clearest defense of salvation by grace alone.Support the show

Send me a Text Message! (I can't directly respond, but I can answer questions and share comments in upcoming episodes! Sound doctrine is critical to a Christian's faith and life. How we love, how we live, how we act, how we worship - is all downstream from what we believe; and if it's not rooted in the sound teachings of Scripture, it's easy to go astray in the practical out workings of living. Today I am sharing three ways sound doctrine protects us.Read the Bible with me!Get the plan for free here: sheprovesfaithful.com/bibleSummer Outdoor Survival Kit:Neem soap: https://a.co/d/fEVL4stBlack Drawing Salve: https://earthley.com/products/black-drawing-salve-stick/?affiliateId=lauren-hlushak&campaign=black drawing salveGet 10% off your first order with code SPF10Sound Doctrine Protects us:One - Sound doctrine comes from the highest authorityTwo - Sound Doctrine is upstream from our livingThree - Sound doctrine needs to be watched and held on to Listen to RC Sproul's talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0F8hMwTbHUSupport the showLove wellness products for your whole family? Shop Earthley and support SPF!Get 10% off your first order with code FIRSTSPF : https://earthley.com/?affiliateId=lauren-hlushakSupport SPF $5 a month: patreon.com/sheprovesfaithfulSign Up for the SPF newsletter: sheprovesfaithful.com/newsletterIf you're enjoying the SPF Podcast, please leave a review on your favorite podcast player! Thank you!

Why do churches practice the Lord's Supper or communion? And what is happening, or not happening in the taking of the bread and the cup? In this sermon on Mark 14:22-25, we explore some of these questions. May 4, 2025Helpful resources that shaped and informed this sermon: Let's Study Mark by Sinclair Ferguson, The Gospel of Mark by R.T. France, Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem, Mark by Kent Hughes, Why Believe in Real Presence by Gavin Ortlund, Mark by J.C. Ryle, Real Body and Blood? by RC Sproul, The Natures of Christ by RC Sproul, Dig Deeper into the Gospels by Andrew Sach & Tim Hiorns.

Aaron had more important things to do this week with the birth of his third, congratulations Aaron and Sarah! This week we are joined by special guest Mark Luebe. Mark is a church planter currently attending Redemption Church as he builds his core team. Mark is an expert on Romans and so it was a joy to discuss with him this complicated section on God's Righteousness in his judgment of sin. This weeks episode is brought to you by, The Member's Meeting on March 9th right after the service.&RCD Book Club on March 17th Reading: The Holiness of God by RC SproulSign up here: Book Club Sign Up

Aaron had more important things to do this week with the birth of his third, congratulations Aaron and Sarah! This week we are joined by special guest Mark Luebe. Mark is a church planter currently attending Redemption Church as he builds his core team. Mark is an expert on Romans and so it was a joy to discuss with him this complicated section on God's Righteousness in his judgment of sin. This weeks episode is brought to you by, The Member's Meeting on March 9th right after the service.&RCD Book Club on March 17th Reading: The Holiness of God by RC SproulSign up here: Book Club Sign Up

Pastor Michael has a bold claim- that Jesus Didn't Do Presuppositional Apologetics. We discuss the popularity that this kind of apologetics had and how it seems to be falling out of favor again for classical Apologetics. Sure to be of interest to anyone who wants defend the faith or understand its credibility. Permit some reformed guys to one more time discuss apologetic method. We mention Greg Bahnsen's great debate demonstrating the strength of Presuppositional Apologetics.  And we mention a debate between RC Sproul and Greg Banhsen over what kind of apologetic method Christians should have.  Use code "RESTLESS" to get 10% off at https://spindlesandscarlet.com/ Restless would love your support on patreon. Join our patreon for bonus episodes every single week! You can follow this podcast all over the internet. twitter,   instagram.    or facebook Or email us at restlesspodcasting@gmail.com

The letter of Romans strengthened the ancient church, brought reformation to the dark ages, has brought hope for 2000 years, and can change your life!This week Pastor Joel continues his message series, Romans Bold Faith That Saves. We look at why is Jesus such a big deal, and why is the cross and Jesus' resurrection the only way? Absolutely nothing about your relationship with God is earned, none is credited to your effort. Absolutely everything about your relationship with God is because of Jesus own righteous perfection in your place and through your life!This is a special four part series that will span the year of 2025. LINKS + RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE:• Recommended reading for this series• Leon Morris, RC Sproul, Martin Luther, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Doxology song by Thomas Ken• Download the free study guide by visiting and clicking on the button "Download Study Guide"⁠• Find a complete transcript here• Scripture References: Romans ch. 3, verse 21 - ch. 4, verse 25; Genesis 17; Psalm 51; Galatians 2, verse 20• Find out more about Covenant Church at ⁠covenantexperience.com

Join The Mustard Seed as they veer a little off their normal topics, Keisha and Elizabeth are going to go over a subject they are passionate about, Apologetics. We believe this is something that is relevant for such a time as this. Join them as they do an introduction into this topic, a general overview so we have a better understanding what Apologetics is, and moving froward we will go through some of the different parts of Apologetics in future shows, so we know we are doing it justice. We are excited to share this with you, and cannot wait for all the rest to follow.REFERENCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:GotQuestions.OrgConvincingProof.orgBooks we mentioned: Momma Bear Apologetics by Hillary Morgan Ferrer, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis, A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Frank Turk and Norman Geisler, and Talking with Your Kids about Jesus by Natasha Crain.Apologists Mentioned:CS Lewis, Dr. Voddie Baucham, Frank Turk, RC Sproul, Josh McDowell, William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Norman Geisler, and Daniel B. Wallace

Both CS Lewis and RC Sproul asked, "If you could boil down take Christian theology and boil it into one word, what would it be?" Love? Faith? They answered that the one word would be Grace. Grace is like a huge bank account and faith is the account number to get access to it. God provides the grace, and we respond to it with faith. Another way to look at it is to contrast 3 words and what they mean: Judgement - getting what you deserve Mercy - not getting what you deserve Grace - getting something that you don't deserve Grace is something that costs everything for the Giver (Jesus) and nothing for the recipient (you and I). John 1:14 tells us that, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, ...full of grace and truth." Today we're studying Matthew 20:1-16.

Episode 95 With the Gentiles having been grafted in, what will happen to Israel? Can they be added back? RC Sproul on Israel in Chapter 11: https://youtu.be/8ahheVv6Wcw?si=gEgQHvcAPKwMn2bv Original Sermon: https://www.sermonaudio.com/dashboard/sermons/1215241817211559/ Find our videocast here: Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):⁠ https://uppbeat.io/t/reakt-music/deep-stone⁠License code: 2QZOZ2YHZ5UTE7C8 Find more Take 2 Theology content at https://take2pod.wordpress.com/

Some people just don't like reading books. Here's a list to help you possibly gain some ground:Aesop's fablesTrial and Triumph by Richard Hannula Abridged version of a classic (Odyssey, Frankenstein, Robinson Crusoe, etc...) Man of the House by CR Wiley Heroes then a now book by YWAM (Gladys Aleward, Richard Wurbrandt, etc...)Confession (Heildeburg, Westminster, London Baptist 1689)Stalin or Hitler by Albert Marrin The Action Bible Pilgrims Progress by John Bunyan or Willing to believe by RC Sproul. Hobbit by Tolkien or The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by Lewis. 

From the magical escapism of childhood fantasies to Christian-inspired storytelling, Ruth opens up about how her faith journey intertwined with her passion for writing and art. Once distanced from her faith during college, she recounts her reconnection inspired by figures like RC Sproul, influencing her renowned "Dragon Forest" series. With tales of self-discovery and bravery, Ruth's narratives invite readers to explore themes of redemption and moral complexity, casting dragons in new, thoughtful lights. Connect with Ruth at Artbyruth.com On IG @author_ra_douthitt FB @Author Ruth Douthitt Make sure to check out her podcasts: A Writer's Day and Broken Vessels Mended by God Some of her books (Affiliate links) Seek Him- Prayer Journal Dragon Forest Trilogy The White Wolf The Road to Home Another mention in this episode: Wolf Soldier by James Hannibal Highlighting another podcast for mama's in the next season of life: Finding Purpose In the Empty Nest Join Pam's Facebook Community at Tending Fields Mom's Group #dragonsforkids #dragontales #fantasynovels #christianfiction #goodvsevil #visualart #booksforkids

Martin Luther was a man whose heart was held captive to the Word of God. He was used mightily by God to usher in the Protestant Reformation, which would serve to recover the core truths of the Gospel that had been obscured by medieval religion and superstition.On this episode we will examine the life of the man who sparked the Protestant Reformation.Learn more at ReasonableTheology.org/LutherSome Recommended Luther BiographiesHere I Stand: A Life of Martin Luther by Roland BaintonLuther and the Reformation: How a Monk Discovered the Gospel by RC SproulThe Legacy of Luther by RC Sproul and Stephen NicholsSupport the showGET THE NEWSLETTEREach edition of the Reasonable Theology newsletter contains my latest article or podcast episode PLUS: A Theological Word or Phrase Explained Quickly and Clearly A Painting Depicting a Scene from Scripture or Church History Audio of a Hymn or other Musical Selection to Enjoy A Recommended Book or Resource to Expand Your Library SUBSCRIBE HERE

Bob covers John 1: 19-31 in his Bible commentary series. He states that a lamb was not a "scapegoat" in terms of Jewish animalistic sacrifice for the propitiation of sins (using an RC Sproul clip to explain). Then Bob gives various justifications for the use of a sacrificial lamb, since it seemingly violates our intuitive sense of justice.Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:The previous episode in this series, i.e. BMS ep 334, Installment 4: the Word Became Flesh.The RC Sproul sermon on Jesus as the Lamb of God.Help support the Bob Murphy Show.

Along with Kerry Baldwin, Gregory Baus co-hosts the Reformed Libertarians podcast. After first explaining Reformed theology in relation to other Christian perspectives, Greg discusses its relevance for libertarians.Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:The YouTube version of this interview.The Monetary Metals 12% silver opportunity.Details for the 2024 ExPat Money Summit.About Gregory Baus. The Reformed Libertarians Podcast (RLP).The disestablishment from the time of the English Civil War.Westminster Confession and catechisms.The 5 "Solas."Canons of Dort (TULIP).RC Sproul's series on Reformed Theology.RLP Episode 2, on Romans 13; Episode 3, arguments for anarchism; and Episode 16, elements of Reformed Covenant Theology.Against Civil Establishment of Religion, by Baus.American independence as Presbyterian rebellion.Help support the Bob Murphy Show.

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!Have you ever wondered why some people abandon their religious roots for entirely new spiritual paths? In this episode of "Avoiding Babylon," we start with captivating personal tales of transitioning from Protestantism to Catholicism. We discuss the prejudices against those born into the Catholic faith and the idea of convert supremacy, all while sharing how influential figures like RC Sproul and John MacArthur have shaped our spiritual journeys. Through these stories, we aim to paint a vivid picture of how different denominations and theological traditions have influenced our faith.Next, we dive deep into the intricacies of justification and liturgical practices, from the ancient methods of fourth-century ascetics to the modern debate between the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) and the Novus Ordo. We analyze how engaging with historical liturgies and studying scriptural prophecies can ignite profound theological exploration. The discussion further explores the impact of Sola Scriptura on Western materialism and the role of relics and apostolic miracles in validating early Christian practices. This segment promises to offer rich insights into how ancient traditions can profoundly shape contemporary faith.Finally, we tackle some of the most complex and contentious topics in modern faith and culture. From the moral and ethical considerations surrounding marital obligations to the evolving understanding of gender roles, nationalism, and race, we leave no stone unturned. We reflect on the emotional and social dynamics within marriages, the influence of prominent figures like Harrison Butker, and the controversial viewpoints on U.S. foreign policy and ethnic influence. Through a mix of humor, personal anecdotes, and historical context, this episode offers a compelling exploration of faith, culture, and identity that will leave you questioning and reflecting long after the episode ends.Support the Show.********************************************************https://www.avoidingbabylon.comMerchandise: https://shop.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssSpiritusTV: https://spiritustv.com/@avoidingbabylonOdysee: https://odysee.com/@AvoidingBabylon

Bob covers John 1: 6-13 in his Bible commentary series. He likens the Arminian vs. Calvinist divide to General Relativity vs. quantum theory in physics, where both approaches are correct in their realm but--in their current versions--are incompatible.Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:The previous episode in this series, i.e. BMS 305, Installment 2, Jesus as Logos.The BMS episode with Steve Patterson, covering mind-body dualism.RC Sproul on the TULIP of Calvinism. Leighton Flowers' Provisionism.RC Sproul on John the Baptist as the last Old Testament prophet.Help support the Bob Murphy Show.

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tbf5FsOm0oResearch shows more than 95% of women who report being raped are telling the truth. But in some churches, these women are not believed and shamed. According to author Ryan George, it's all part of a propaganda machine meant to consolidate and maintain power. On this edition of The Roys Report, host Julie Roys continues her eye-opening dialogue with Ryan George, the son of an Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) pastor. In part one, Ryan described the physical abuse he suffered from his dad. Now Ryan exposes the harmful rhetoric in IFB churches from his insider perspective and comments on shocking examples of IFB misogyny. This podcast includes clips from IFB pastors who shamed women and rape victims in their sermons. Also included in this podcast is Ryan's description of how IFB pastors promote violence, especially when it's directed towards those seen as political foes. This is a no-holds-barred podcast, exposing the ugly truth about the IFB church movement, which Ryan asserts is a cult. It also includes a clip from John MacArthur in which the famous preacher sounds an awful lot like Ryan's IFB pastor dad. However, this podcast also has a wonderfully redemptive story, as Ryan tells how he escaped the abuse and deception in his father's IFB church and overcame fear. Guests Ryan George Ryan George is the author of Scared to Life, Word on the Street, and his latest book, Hurt and Healed by the Church. He's the blogger behind Explorience.org, where he tells stories at the intersection of physical adventures and spiritual discoveries on all seven continents. He co-founded and co-leads Dude Group, a parachurch outdoor Bible study and prayer group in the Blue Ridge Mountains where he lives with his wife, Crystal, and daughter, Deonnie. Show Transcript SPEAKERS PASTOR BOBBY LEONARD, JOHN MACARTHUR, RYAN GEORGE, Julie Roys, JACK HYLES Julie Roys  00:00 The following podcast contains clips from some pastors in the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, or IFB, who shamed women and rape victims in their sermons. We chose these clips to illustrate the systemic problems in IFB churches. But we realize these clips are hard to hear, so please take care as you listen.  For more background on these and other stories please visit JulieRoys.com. Research shows that more than 95-percent of women who report being raped are telling the truth. But in some churches, especially IFB churches, these women are disbelieved and shamed. According to Ryan George, it's all part of the IFB propaganda machine meant to consolidate and maintain power. Welcome to The Roys Report—a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And in part two of an eye-opening podcast with Ryan George—the son of an IFB pastor—Ryan exposes the misogynist propaganda in IFB churches. And in this podcast, you'll hear some shocking examples of this misogyny. But as Ryan explains, there's also promotion of violence within IFB churches, especially when it's directed towards those seen as political foes. This is no-holds-barred, stunning podcast, exposing the ugly truth about the IFB Church—a group Ryan confidently asserts is a cult. You'll also hear a clip from John MacArthur, where the famous preacher sounds an awful lot like an IFB pastor. But this podcast also has a wonderfully redemptive story, as Ryan tells how he escaped the IFB and overcame fear. I love Ryan's story—and I think you will too. We'll get to that in a minute. But first, I'd like to thank the sponsors of this podcast—Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington . . . Well again, here's part 2 of my podcast with Ryan George, author of Hurt and Healed in the Church. . . So there’s a whole section of your book that deals with propaganda. And you know, as a journalist, as somebody who’s in media, I mean, that’s something that always sort of piques my curiosity when I see something like that, but it’s really this idea of how the IFB was able to sell certain ideas to you. And extra biblical ideas that really weren’t necessarily in Scripture. And one of them that was just so heartbreaking to me because I work with female victims all the time of sexual abuse, and was that this idea, you actually heard this in college? Just stunning to me, that a woman if she’s raped, she would only get pregnant if she’s somehow enjoying it. And so it was kind of her fault if she gets pregnant. I mean, just despicable. absolutely shocking that anyone would say that. Yeah, just absolutely despicable. And, you know, I’m very pro-life in my convictions, but the thought that somebody would try to treat a rape victim who got pregnant that way is just heartbreaking, heartbreaking. But we know, these really misogynist ideas are woven into so many of these fundamentalist churches. And you mentioned in your book, that Jack Hyles, who if you don’t know Jack Hyles was really a main figure within the IFB movement. He had this church in Hammond, Indiana, First Baptist of Hammond, I think, huge mega church. I think at one point, they said they had like 40,000 people coming. I know he would bus people. RYAN GEORGE  01:42 He had 86 buses at the peak of their ministry, running a bus route. I mean, that’s a big metro area city bus ministry. Julie Roys  01:49 Yeah, Absolutely, absolutely huge. Anyway, you had this clip, and it was so awful, I like had to look it up in your footnotes and be like, is this online? And so the journalist in me, like has to find it, right. So actually I was able to do it, I was able to find this clip. And just so people realize, I also looked up, like what was the context? Because he says, who slew all of these? when he’s speaking and really what he’s talking about, I looked up that phrase, it’s actually from II Kings 10, and it refers to Jehu, who is basically meeting out God’s judgment to the wicked king Ahab, and also Jezabell two of the most wicked kings Israel ever had. And there are actually, you know, these men of the city, who slew who slay the 70 sons of Ahab. And it’s a pretty graphic description in the Old Testament where they actually bring the heads of all of these sons, and they put them at the gate. And it’s like the judgment of God being meted out in just, you know, a horrific way. But then again, what Jezebel and Ahab did during their reign was pretty horrific as well. But Jehu comes and he looks, you know, in front of the people, he’s looking at this this pile, and he says, who slew all of these? And so in this clip, Hyles is actually likening these wicked men who were beheaded, to the people he’s describing, and it’s absolutely breathtaking, because these people are women, who, God forbid, didn’t dress in the way that he thinks is appropriate. So take a listen. JACK HYLES  03:47 Who slew all of the women in shorts? Who slew all of these poor kids that are girls pregnant before they married? caused the boys to get so stirred up passionately that they rape a girl. Brother, you listen to me. For every single man that goes to prison for rape, you ought to be right beside him, a half-naked girl in the next cell. Who slew all these people on beaches? Who slew all these churches to have mixed swimming parties? Julie Roys  04:31 Unbelievable. RYAN GEORGE  04:32 And if you notice in the background of any video, or background of that video, it’s all women except for one guy and they’re smiling. Julie Roys  04:41 Some are some are not. I mean, some are smiling. Some are not. And I just know you know from reading your book, and from the research that I’ve done, I mean, there’s a lot of sexual abuse going on behind the scenes. I just have to wonder how many of these women are standing there hearing this, and they’ve been sexually abused, and now they’re hearing, it’s your fault that this happened to you. Which, interestingly, Jack Hyles’ son, David, he’s been accused by several women of raping them. In fact, I did a podcast about four years ago with a woman who claimed she was raped by Jack Hyles son David Hyles. We’ll put a link to that in the show notes. That’s I mean, if you want to explore this a little bit more that was a really powerful podcast. Amazing woman what she’s been through., RYAN GEORGE  05:36 Oh, yes. Julie Roys  05:38 But also, there’s the son-in-law of Jack Hyles, who, you know, he’s been convicted of taking what a 16-year-old across state lines and raping her. Interestingly, when he was caught in his crime, he did eventually admit, I guess that  he had raped her. But then he blamed it on the teen’s aggressiveness, on her aggressiveness. I mean, this is so just baked into the whip and woof of this culture, that it’s the woman’s fault. And you might think, well, you know, Jack Hyles, died in 2001. So this is like the IFB of many decades ago. And, unfortunately, it’s not. In fact, I found a clip, and this was just like, last month on the internet, and it was a recording that it had been from, I think, August of last year, last September, but it finally made its round. Yeah. On the internet. And it was of a pastor in North Carolina, Pastor Bobby Leonard, at this Bible Baptist Tabernacle in Monroe, North Carolina. And this, I mean, every bit as awful as what you just heard from Jack Hyles. Let me play this because, again, this happened within the past year. PASTOR BOBBY LEONARD  07:01 I used to say this. I haven’t said this a long time. You ready? I said, if you dress like that, and you get raped, and I’m on the jury, he’s will go free. You don’t like it, do you? I’m right though. I’m right. Because a man’s a man. Julie Roys  07:22 Hhmm. A man’s a man. RYAN GEORGE  07:25 We define manhood very differently. Julie Roys  07:27 Yeah, right. I mean, that was unbelievable. And I pointed out and I think I put a Tweet out there saying or a post on X, I guess I have to say, that, yeah, he’s a man. He’s not an animal. And one of the features of a man is he’s able to exercise self-control. So if a woman’s in shorts, no, that doesn’t give you a license to rape her. And that video went viral. And there were protests there. And I don’t know if they’re still ongoing. I know, several weeks after this video went viral,  those protests were still going. But you know, I looked before we recorded this podcast, and this Bobby Leonard is still pastor at this IFB church. RYAN GEORGE  08:09 Same church. Julie Roys  08:10 Yep. The thing that kills me about this is that this man is a pastor, and he’s espousing something again. So the antithesis of what Jesus would. I mean, his heart broke for victims. His heart was absolutely. So I mean, the only people he was hard on was religious hypocrites. That’s the only people he was hard on,  but people caught in sin, people victimized, those are the people Jesus’ heart broke for. RYAN GEORGE  08:39 There’s a chance that when that woman who was pulled out from underneath her adultery partner, when they brought him to Jesus, brought her to Jesus to stone her, there’s a really good chance that she was naked standing there next to Jesus. Julie Roys  08:49 Oh, I thought you were gonna say that she was a victim. But I’d never thought of that. RYAN GEORGE  08:53 I don’t know. She definitely she could have been a victim. Right? But even if it was consensual, they didn’t draw her adultery partner out. Right? They didn’t try to stone him. Julie Roys  09:02 No, no, not a man. No. RYAN GEORGE  09:04 No, right, right. They pulled her out as if she was the problem which is an IFB thing. And then so if that’s the case, they said, we put her in the act. So, there’s very likely that a pastor like this, a group of Pharisees, pulled this woman out into public, set her next to Jesus and Jesus didn’t look at her, he wrote in the dirt. And then when all the accusers went away, say, Hey, where are your accusers? Neither do I condemn you. Now go and sin no more. That’s like you’re saying antithetical to what is the messaging in that video, and many of the churches that I grew up in. Julie Roys  09:40 There’s so many components that you discuss, and we don’t have time to go through them all. I wish we could. But one of them I was like, we have to talk about this because Christian nationalism has become so big. And especially right now, in an election year, we’re hearing In a lot of it. I didn’t realize how IFB  churches supported Christian nationalism and tried to kind of do it biblically like having a biblical basis. Would you describe that? RYAN GEORGE  10:14 Well, it’s baked into the idea that if we can’t winsomely attract people to Jesus, right? Their churches don’t even try to winsomely attract people. I tell a story in the book about my parents church had a raffle that you could win a shotgun if you brought people to church. Yeah. Because like, that’s the only way, they knew that the message that they had to sell wasn’t going to be popular, right? And so what they look at is well, then just like as they do in the churches, can we go by force? Right. And so, when you hear fundamentalists talk about politics, they’re talking about overtaking and taking control. Like you hear these kinds of authoritarian terms, to say, we are trying to take our culture by storm, we’re going to try to take it back. That’s not exclusive to IFB. But you wouldn’t think that this very seclusionary cult would try to be mainstream in that way. But I mean, we had polling places on our campus. The college I went to is the home district for Matt Gates, who is also accused of multiple sexual crimes against minors. And they would brag that, you know, they would get students to change their voting district to college so that we could vote in Florida elections, and our college bragged that we put Bush in the White House. Because if you count how many votes were cast by our students in that district, that was enough to put Bush over the top, I voted for Bush, this isn’t a political thing. But the idea is that they were trying to take it by any ways necessary, which definitely falls into this whole Trumpism thing now because they’re like, that’s our Savior. He’s gonna force it. He’s talking about retribution. He’s talking about making people pay, making people cry. You know. So it makes sense if you have an authoritarian church and authoritarian pastor that you’d be drawn to political authoritarians. Julie Roys  12:05 And wasn’t there something too about like when the passage about the separation of the sheep from the goats and that certain nations, I’ve never heard this before, that God will separate certain nations, like separating the sheep from the goats, almost like if you’re not in the Christian nation, you’re not going to make it in? RYAN GEORGE  12:26 Yeah, it’s a weird double jeopardy situation. And they’re like, Hey, we have to win America back to God because of this passage. And part of it is because if you only believe that the King James version is the only version you can read, and if you only believe that there are pastors out there, I have a few pastors that say that the English version of the Bible is more inspired than the original. Like, I mean, it’s all over you can find on the internet. If you follow, there’s an Instagram account, I highly recommend called At Bad Sermons. Bad Sermons has a whole bunch of this stuff. Julie Roys  12:55 I think that’s where that clip, actually yeah, of Pastor Monroe first came out, yeah, RYAN GEORGE  13:01 Oh, my gosh. And so what happens is they go, well, then that means if A plus B equals C, then we have to win America to Christ, so that, and they don’t mean that they have to save America. They’re not trying to save Americans. They’re trying to save their version, which is, again, a messed-up version of America for this thing. But that doesn’t make sense. So as I’m writing that chapter in my book, I’m in Slovenia, which I was in northern Slovenia, I was about 5-10 miles from the Italy border. And if you’ve ever looked at that part of the map, Slovenia has been part of like, 12, where I was sitting in that library has been part of like, 12 different countries in the last 400 years. Like, so at what point does Jesus pick your country? Is it 1787? Is it 2004? Is it 1999? Was it when it was in the Soviet bloc? Is it now that it’s not? It’s like, you know, was it when it was part of this country or that? Like, there’s so little intellectual rigor applied to anything. And when you do try to apply any type of academic anything, you’re saying, Oh, you’re a liberal, you don’t have faith, you know, all this stuff. Like you have to take the man of God’s word for this. And so you have IFB pastors after Joe Biden was elected, getting up and saying, Hey, I don’t know if you know if this is right, but I’m not going to get in the way of God if his will is to assassinate Joe Biden, from the pulpit. Wow. And you go, wait, what? Like, where did Jesus ever call us to assassinate our enemy? When Peter cut the guards year off, Jesus healed the guard and then said to Peter, like, what are you doing, man? Like, this isn’t how we do this. Julie Roys  14:37 Ah, that is so I am speechless. That is so so awful. Wow. Well, there’s something else that stuck out to me, probably because this is in the news right now. And you’ve got a chapter called, Misrepresenting Orthodoxy, and you talk about these IFB preachers who will condemn certain groups or certain groups of people in sort of this selective self-righteousness. And you talk about your father, who again, this is a man who was a pedophile. I mean, he molested girls who are not even of age. And yet, he said he would condemn Martin Luther King Jr., because he supposedly was a philanderer and, you know, had relations with women outside of marriage. At least, you know, in that case, you know, I don’t know, but I’m guessing they were consensual. Which was not the case with your father. But you write, I thought  this was a great paragraph. You write, While that irony plays out. Let me just read this here. While that irony plays out on a micro level of my family, I can’t escape the more macro irony of my dad’s disregard for Dr. King. In the unsaved churches of my youth, beliefs were an idol and hypocrisy was defended as a way to protect the gospel. Dogmatism took precedence over following the example of Jesus. Doctrine was more important than authenticity, curiosity, or compassion. And you’re probably aware, right now, there’s a big brouhaha over some things that John MacArthur has said, about Martin Luther King, Jr. In fact, I’m just gonna play that. So if people haven’t heard that, they can hear what he said. I’ll just play it. JOHN MACARTHUR  16:41 The T for G (Together for the Gospel) guys wanted to honor him with a panel, and we spent an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. And it was just beautiful tributes to RC from all of us, who knew him so very, very well. And the strange irony was a year later, they did the same thing for Martin Luther King, who was not a Christian at all, whose life was immoral. I’m not saying he didn’t do some social good. And I’ve always been glad that he was a pacifist, or he could have started a real revolution. But you don’t honor a non-believer who misrepresented everything about Christ and the gospel, in an organization alongside honoring somebody like RC Sproul. Julie Roys  17:36 So how does that hit you? RYAN GEORGE  17:39 So I see it again as a hypocrite, you know. John MacArthur has covered for multiple child molesters in his church. And I go, here’s the irony is you’re going to prop up people in your own church who are doing way worse than what Dr. Martin Luther King is and say that they are examples of the faith. Like this is why we keep them in our church, right? And then say somebody who had some affairs, which we’re not condoning affairs, that it wipes out everything they did, including  whether or not they’re going to heaven. That’s the mental gymnastics that the  IFB church has to do to feel self-righteous. Julie Roys  18:16 And missing, that one of the greatest sins that God calls out is pride. I mean when I hear things like that, I’m like, wow! I mean, I could talk about Dr. Martin Luther King’s doctrine, and there may be some really bad things in there. And I’m not saying that you can’t talk about that. But to say that you, a mere human, who doesn’t know the hearts of man, can say where the eternal destiny of someone else is. That crosses a line to me. RYAN GEORGE  18:46 It’s hubris. Julie Roys  18:48 Absolutely. RYAN GEORGE  18:49 And the irony is Dr. Martin Luther King was a Baptist pastor in the south, which means it was probably conservative to some degree, as far as theologically conservative church. They were probably closer than MacArthur would like to admit. Julie Roys  19:02 Yeah. Well, the last section of your book is beautiful. And it talks about. RYAN GEORGE  19:08 Oh, thank you. Julie Roys  19:08 Yeah, it talks about the greener pastures that are available. You know, there to get beyond the abuse, and the dogmatism, you know, that these things don’t have to define you and define the rest of your life. I think that’s hugely important. But at the same time, moving forward and choosing, you know, the better path, to choose growth over comfort, can be, it’s a risky thing to do. But it’s the path you chose, and maybe the path less traveled. But why would you like to the person who right now is just kind of sitting there going, You know, dare I do that? What would you say? RYAN GEORGE  19:54 I’d tell him, it’s worth it. So I’m a little predisposed to this. So, I’m an adrenaline junkie, I jump off mountains and planes and buildings. I’ve surfed in the Arctic. I do all kinds of crazy things. Julie Roys  20:06 You surfed in the Arctic? RYAN GEORGE  20:08 Yes, ma’am. I’ve camped in both the Arctic Circle and Antarctica. I do a thing called wing-walking, where you go out on the wings of a bi-plane while it’s flying, and it does aerobatic maneuvers while you’re out there. Julie Roys  20:16 No, no, no, no, no, no. RYAN GEORGE  20:18 But here’s what I’ve learned in that. And this is how God designed our bodies with dopamine and epinephrine and other reward chemicals, is that when we do this scary thing, we are chemically rewarded, right? And the times when I felt most alive in my life, outside of a faith community in a relationship, but like physically when I felt most alive, was after I conquered a fear. I was so scared to go wing walking the first time. I finally found a life insurance company to give me life insurance cuz you can imagine it’s hard to insure some of the stuff that I do for fun. And I got back down on the ground after my first, you take lessons, and you get like certified for different things you do out on the wings. And I got back down on the ground and my classmates had waited, I was the last student through the school that day. And one of my classmates yelled out, how was it? And I’m taking off, you know, your gear whatever, I was like, I’ve never felt more alive, right. And so what I’d like to tell people is, it’s that way for me and my faith. When I’ve had a conversation around a fire with somebody, or when I saw someone meet Jesus for the first time or put their marriage back together. Or I have a friend who has six foster and adopted children?, and to watch the reclamation project of what he and his wife are doing right? And different things in my life. I’ve seen Jesus do incredible things. And I have goosebumps right now all over my body, thinking about what I’ve seen is like, that is what life in all caps is. And I’ve experienced it. So my last book was called Scared to Life. And it was about I felt God the most when I’m scared. And so what I’m able to do because it’s become normal for me, I’m scared of heights. People are amazed. I’ve jumped off the 63rd story of a building before, but I’m scared of heights. But what I’ve learned is, is that when I lean into that fear, the reward is at least equal to whatever I was afraid of. And I found that to be true in my faith. You can’t convince them. It’s like trying to convince a seven-year-old that someday they’re going to like kissing girls. Trust me dude, I’m telling you, it’s the same thing. People are like, You’re so crazy, I would never go out on the wings of an airplane. It’s like, but have you ever been upside down at 140 miles an hour looking at the California desert? I can’t explain it right? It’s the same thing. There are things in my faith. I’ve had these encounters with Jesus that’s sweeter than anything I’ve ever had with my parents, anything I’ve ever had in churches growing up, that cannot be explained outside of Jesus. And I want that for you. I won’t ever force someone to jump out of a plane with me or do some of the stuff that I do. But I will invite over and over and over again because I know what’s waiting for them on the other side. And then you go, Okay, you just did something that 99% of humans in America would say you are legitimately crazy to try, and you feel more alive. What is something back home that you’re scared to do? A conversation you’re scared to have, a thing you’re scared to relinquish to Jesus, an addiction you’re scared to tell somebody about whatever it is. That Invitational model has proven true in my life over and over again. Julie Roys  23:16 I mean, it makes me think of when I was about to blow the whistle on the Moody Bible Institute. And I had this piece written, and I won’t go into the whole story of how that went down. But I was terrified because I knew that would burn my bridge forever. Not just with Moody. But you get blacklisted. And that would be the end of my career. And I was okay with that. But it was still scary. And yet, I mean, yes. Did I feel alive when I did that? And then on the heels of that, that’s why I’m doing what I’m doing today. God birthed this out of that, and had I not followed through  on that conviction God gave me, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be here, you know. And so, to me, I feel like I’m living the adventure. You know. I think life in Christ should be living the adventure. And it will always, always, I think we’ve forgotten about this. RYAN GEORGE  24:14 Jesus hinted at it. So they didn’t have the terms that we have now in the New Testament to describe biology and whatever else. But over and over and over from Jesus and other people Old Testament New Testament. The Bible says the just shall live by faith. But what a lot of people don’t reverse engineer that to go it’s you can’t have faith unless you have doubt, fear, both, right? I’m only scared on the wing of an airplane if I don’t think my harness is going to work or there’s going to be a malfunction in the plane. When you’ve done it 100 times, the 100th time I rode a motorcycle, it wasn’t as scary as the first time right? The first time you ride a roller coaster you’re holding on white knuckles. By the fifth time you’re posing for the picture. You’re physically doing the same thing. But you’ve lost that fear. And so, for us to live by faith on a regular basis, there has to be something that brings doubt or fear into our life. It sounds masochistic and I don’t mean it that way. But if Jesus isn’t given me an assignment on a regular basis that makes my palms sweaty, then I have to ask myself, do I have faith right now? Am I living the just life? Julie Roys  25:11 Absolutely. And that’s why I think we’ve forgotten that to be a moral person, to be a godly person, it actually requires courage. Like, you just don’t hear that very much. We think of it as you have to be pure in your thoughts and your life and all those things are true. But you have to have courage, because God will call you to something that requires faith and like you’re saying, it requires facing your fear. And I’m thinking right now because this is where your book lands. But I know this is where an awful lot of people are. Is some of the scariest things to do, are to pursue your own healing. Because it means instead of running away from what was painful, you actually have to lean into it, you actually have to go places that you don’t want to go. And yet, that’s something that you did. And I feel like you’re kind of not that any of us is on the other side. Because healing is a process that we won’t fully be healed till we’re in heaven, right? You know, so. But you’re kind of on the other side, where you’ve walked through some stuff and been able to say, hey, you can trust this process. So speak to that person right now who may be in that spot. RYAN GEORGE  26:25 Oh, man. The hard part is all of our journeys are nuanced, right? So I’m not calling someone and telling them, Hey, go back to the church where you came from, or go back to the religion that you came from, or even go back to a church as is commonly defined United States, like a Sunday service, or whatever else. What I am calling people to do is to find a version of Jesus they can fall in love with. And I was talking to a podcaster a few weeks ago, and she gave me this great analogy, and I got to use it. But she said, there are a lot of people who go to a Taylor Swift concert alone, but nobody goes home alone. They come home with friendship bracelets, and new friends and new Instagram connections and whatever else. And I said, for me, the Taylor Swift in that story is Jesus. And if I find that Jesus, that I’m a big fan of which I have found, and if I go to the concert, I’m going to bump into other people who love the same Jesus. And we’re going to trade friendship bracelets, and we’re going to start. So whether that spiritual community is a service, or whether it’s just meeting someone for coffee, there are certain people that I know, the first version of Jesus they can find is to go to therapy, and to be real. And what happens is, after you get used to telling your story in that room, then you get more courage to tell people outside of that room, et cetera. And so church can grow for you. But my book is not a call to go back on a Sunday. My call is to fall in love with the Jesus that I’ve fallen in love with, because it’s been utterly rewarding. And if you can look at it as a personal relationship, I know that that terminology has been used and abused in the faith that I grew up in. But as a note, this isn’t like me and the church. This is me and Jesus, and know that Jesus, everywhere he went, other people were attracted around that were fans of his hand up to 1000s of people. So no matter whether you define church as a house church, or, you know, multisite, non-denom, whatever. All of it is trappings; find the Jesus that loves you. And he promised, in his own words, read letters to the Bible. He said, If you seek me, and you seek with your whole heart, you will find me. And we’re on this divine scavenger hunt to find him everywhere and anywhere. And when you start intentionally looking for him. Like before, before I go on a hike, you’ll get this because you’re a hiker. Before I go on a hike in new places like God, will you reveal why you drew me to this trail? God, will you reveal what it is you want me to know about yourself today? And I can tell you how that prayers were answered hiking in the Faroe Islands and Iceland and Norway. I still remember how Jesus answered those prayers. I have prayed that prayer before getting on a flight at JFK. God, would you reveal why it is I’m getting on this plane? What do you want me to know about getting on this plane? And that led to a very emotional blog post and people are like, Oh, my goodness, you met Jesus on a flight to Finland? Like how does that even work? And if we’re expectant to find the real Jesus, why wouldn’t he want to reveal himself? Jesus gave up his life so that we could know him. So when we asked him, Jesus help me know you more, helped me find the real you, why wouldn’t he answer that prayer? Julie Roys  28:45 I love that. I love that. And it is the real Jesus. And unfortunately, he has not been portrayed to some of us as his true self. And it’s important that we find that. Ryan, this has been such a phenomenal conversation. I’ve so enjoyed it. Yeah, just so glad to have this conversation and for the gift of your book. And I know it takes a lot to write a book and especially one this personal. So thank you so much, and it’s just been a delight. RYAN GEORGE  29:45 Thanks for sharing me with your people. Read more