Podcasts about Toyota Production System

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- Shingo Production System Chapter 2 and 3- Process Vs operations- Material traceability- Type X and type Y- Who, what, where, when, why of productionPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

My guest for Episode #527 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Dave Fitzpatrick, co-founder of Zenkai Improvement Partners and a 30-year resident of Japan. Dave brings a unique perspective as a Canadian Lean practitioner who has worked extensively in both manufacturing and healthcare, guiding international leaders on immersive study experiences throughout Japan. Episode page with video, transcript, and more In this episode, Dave and I share details about a new collaboration we're leading together--the Lean Healthcare Accelerator Experience. This is a jointly developed series of immersive visits to high-performing organizations in Japan, designed specifically for healthcare executives who want to see Lean principles in action across both hospitals and manufacturing settings. We talk about why we're creating this experience, what makes it unique, and how cultural context, leadership behaviors, and intentional long-term commitments drive sustainable improvement--not because it's "just Japan," but because of the systems and mindsets these organizations have cultivated. Dave shares his personal Lean journey, including how he transitioned from working in aeronautics to leading study tours for visiting professionals. He reflects on the differences between Japanese and Western companies when it comes to employee engagement, psychological safety, and respect for people. We also preview the first Accelerator trip taking place in June 2025 and discuss what makes these experiences so valuable and transformational for participants. Whether you're in healthcare or another industry, this conversation is packed with insights about creating a culture of continuous improvement--and how a visit to Japan can accelerate your learning. Questions, Notes, and Highlights: Can you share your origin story--how did you first get involved with Lean, Kaizen, or the Toyota Production System? What initially stood out to you when you began visiting Japanese manufacturing and healthcare organizations? From your experience, what cultural factors give Japanese organizations an advantage--or do they? How do successful Japanese companies build deep employee engagement and commitment to improvement? What lessons can visitors take home from Japan--and why is it not just about being "Japanese"? What are some common misconceptions people have before visiting Japan on these study experiences? How does hierarchy or seniority in Japanese companies affect psychological safety and speaking up? What kinds of organizations will we be visiting during the Lean Healthcare Accelerator? What role will Reiko Kano play in these visits, and how does her expertise go beyond translation? What's the value of including manufacturing visits in a healthcare-focused learning experience? How do Japanese companies view improvement work in relation to headcount and job security? Why is respect for people and time such a noticeable theme in Japanese customer service and operations? What do you hope participants in the Lean Healthcare Accelerator take away from this experience? This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network. 

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- ROI and overall direction- Radical improvements- Operations and Porcesses- Material tracability and kanbanPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Leadership Experience - early registration rate now through May 31st! https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/ How much of the Toyota Way is dependent on Japanese culture?And how much of it all comes down to… being human?There are questions I've explored with 130+ global leaders who've joined my Japan Leadership Experience programs. To help you answer this question, I've invited Tim Wolput – Japanologist and Toyota Way Management expert, to Chain of Learning.Together, we take a deep (and fun!) dive into the differences between classical Japanese and Western management and explore the cultural and historical roots of real lean leadership.In this episode, we travel through Japanese history—from Confucius' teachings to samurai and rice farming traditions, and Deming's influence on Japanese management. If you've ever wanted a masterclass on Japanese management and Toyota Way principles—and how you can apply these lessons to create a culture of excellence—these two episodes are a must-listen.YOU'LL LEARN:Misconceptions about the Toyota Way management practices and applying the principles across culturesDeming's influence on Japan and the development of the Toyota Production System and Toyota WayThe way of the samurai: Focus on the process, not just the outcomeShu-ha-ri: The process towards mastery and turning knowledge into wisdom by learning through doing The power of leading through influence and “doing the right thing”: true leadership inspires growth, not just resultsSubscribe so you don't miss Part 2, where we continue along this path of learning to explore the nuances of Japanese concepts like kata and obeya and their relationship to lean management practices today.ABOUT MY GUEST:Tim Wolput is a Japanologist and Toyota Way Management expert passionate about helping people transform themselves, their organizations, and the world for the better. Since 2023 Tim has been my in-country partner for my immersive Japan Leadership Experiences. Originally from Belgium, Tim has lived in Japan since 1999 where he attended Tokyo University Graduate School and studied traditional Japanese mathematics. Tim is a certified Toyota Way Management System instructor and consultant to global organizations on Lean, Agile, and Toyota Production System (TPS).IMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/42Connect with Tim Wolput: linkedin.com/in/timwolputCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Learn about my Japan Leadership Experience program: kbjanderson.com/JapanTrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:03:53 Biggest misconceptions about Toyota Way management practices05:10 Katie's perspective Japan versus the west08:46 The meaning of Shu Ha Ri and the traditional way of learning10:23 Deming's influence on Japan and The Toyota Way13:05 Why Japan embraced PDCA15:45 Difference in mindset between Asia and the west17:28 The working culture in Japan and how work together in the community22:17 Power of the supplier relationship23:40 Japanese leadership style29:15 Concept of doing the right thing30:56 How to focus on processes as the way to get results34:13 Powerful words of wisdom about the way of the samurai Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Leadership Experience - early registration rate now through May 31st! https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/ 

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode, Marty Neese, CEO of Verdagy, joins Amir to unpack what it takes to scale a company in one of the most innovative and high-stakes industries—green hydrogen. From managing a purpose-driven culture to embracing failures as a strategic advantage, Marty shares insights on leading ambitious climate tech initiatives while staying grounded in economic reality. Whether you're in tech, energy, or just love solving complex problems, this one's for you.

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- Focusing on upside instead of downside sensitivity- The failure mode of Kanban stockout- Fusion360 Airtable API- Prioritizing system efficiency over personal workload- CMM increasing throughputPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- What is Overproduction- How do we think about overproductionPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

The blog postBefore I departed for my recent workshop tour of Australia and New Zealand, I knew that I would learn things in the process of teaching and facilitating on my favorite topics. I didn't expect to learn about flying koalas, though!I did expect to learn something when I had the opportunity to meet up for lunch with a friend, former Toyota Australia leader Barry McCarthy. Barry's also the chair of this year's AME International Conference in St. Louis. I first met Barry back in 2018 when I went on a Japan Study trip with Barry and the Honsha Consulting team, and I learned a lot from him on that trip (check out my podcast with him about these topics).Toyota and Psychological Safety–A New BookIn recent years, I've come to believe that Psychological Safety is the oft-unheralded foundation of the Toyota Production System and Lean Management. Former Toyota Kentucky leader Mike Hoseus agrees, as we discussed in this Lean Blog Interviews episode — and as mentioned in the book Toyota Culture, that Mike co-authored with Jeff Liker.I've learned a lot from Barry about Toyota as a “human development company,” as we discussed in his episode.He agrees with me about the direct importance of Psychological Safety at Toyota — and that it's something they intentionally nurture.One new piece of direct evidence of this is a book that was published, in Japanese, back in late 2023. The title can be translated to English as:Two kata that realize psychological safety and speed up work that supports Toyota-style DX: “How to speak” and “How to proceed with work” that resonate with young peopleBarry shared his summary of the book (as translated by him via Google) and I ordered it from Amazon Japan based on his recommendation. When I got home, the book was waiting for me.“DX” is jargon (an abbreviation) for “digital transformation,” something that's increasingly important to Toyota.Back to the title — I suspect that “make work flow better” might be a better translation since we don't normally try to “speed up work” directly through the Lean methodology. Lean is more about reducing and eliminating barriers to flow and not a matter of pressuring people to work faster.The ChatGPT translation of the title says:“Supporting Toyota-Style DX: Two Kata That Achieve Psychological Safety and Speed in Work”“A way of speaking that resonates with young workers” and“A way to move work forward”I've been running pages through ChatGPT as a translation tool. It's incredibly fast. You take a photo of a page (or pages) and out comes the translation. I've been uploading photos in a batch size of “chapter” so ChatGPT can perhaps look at the full context of the chapter instead of only seeing page by page.Before jumping into what Psychological Safety is, the book poses a problem statement:“A diagnostic list for managers–if you mark 3 or more “yes,” you should seriously reconsider your current management style. Examples include:“I've never said ‘thank you' to a team member today.”“I find the word ‘challenge' cringeworthy.”“I haven't talked to anyone outside my own department.”“I tend to suppress my real opinions at work.”I think a good question for leaders is: “Do you remember the last time an employee disagreed with you?” If the answer is “no,” then you have a problem.(1) What is Psychological Safety?“Being able to express honest opinions, candid doubts, and even disagree with others for the sake of organizational or team results–without fear.”— Atsusuke Ishii, 2020, Japanese Management Skills Association

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:-Random Tool Identifier Numbers-Predefined range storage issues-Requirements for using a random identifier systemPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Strategic planning too often becomes an annual ritual that loses meaning as soon as the binders hit the shelf. Mark Reich is on a mission to change that.In this episode of Building Better, Brandon Bartneck sits down with Mark Reich, author of Managing on Purpose and one of the foremost experts on hoshin kanri—a strategy deployment system rooted in the Toyota Production System.Drawing on decades of leadership experience at Toyota and the Lean Enterprise Institute, Mark shares what it takes to build alignment, lead with intention, and empower your team to solve real problems. This conversation is for anyone trying to lead with clarity and drive sustainable change—especially in complex manufacturing and industrial environments.Whether you're new to lean or have been practicing for decades, you'll walk away with powerful ideas and practical insights.About Mark Reich:Mark Reich spent 23 years at Toyota, including time in Japan and leading hoshin kanri for North America during a decade of major growth. As a senior coach and chief engineer at the Lean Enterprise Institute, Mark has worked with leaders across industries to implement lean thinking, solve real-world problems, and lead with purpose. He is the author of Managing on Purpose, a practical workbook designed to help organizations implement hoshin kanri and build stronger leadership systems.About Managing on Purpose:Published by the Lean Enterprise Institute, Managing on Purpose is a hands-on workbook for leaders seeking to align strategy with daily operations through hoshin kanri. The book includes real-world examples and a fictional case study from TrueMowers to help readers apply these principles in their own work.→ Buy the BookAbout Building Better:Building Better with Brandon Bartneck focuses on the people, products, and companies creating a better tomorrow, often in the transportation and manufacturing sectors. The show features real conversations about what leaders are doing, why and how they're doing it, and what we can learn from their experiences.Key Takeaways:Hoshin kanri is a practical system for turning strategy into actionEffective leaders align their organizations around a shared purposeStructured problem-solving is essential to improvementEngaging employees is key to sustainable successStarting small—with a model cell—can drive meaningful changeLinks & Resources:Learn more about Managing on Purpose: Lean Enterprise InstituteBuy the book: Managing on PurposeConnect with Mark Reich: LinkedInShow Notes: brandonbartneck.com/buildingbetter/markreichListen to the Episode:Apple PodcastsSpotify

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- Why we started this podcast- How it's been- What has changed- Are we bringing value?Please join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- The Travelling salesman and job shop problem- Human beings intuitive capacity for scheduling- Where we can make big gainsPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- Second industrial revolution- Soviet vs Free market- Arda results- Mismatch betwen priorities and calendarPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Study Trip - super early registration rate now through March 31st! https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/ What have we really learned after four decades of lean? Is lean thinking still relevant today?And importantly — what needs to change to ensure its future success?In the previous episode, I sat down with James Womack, founder of the Lean Enterprise Institute, to look back on 40 years of lean thinking and management since the publication of The Machine That Changed the World. In this episode, we look ahead to the future of lean and dig into big questions, including those submitted by listeners:Is there a better term than “lean”? What would Jim do differently if he could reintroduce lean to the world?How do AI and new technologies fit with the application of lean principles?What's Jim's greatest surprise over the past 45 years?Jim doesn't hold back in this discussion  — and provides his advice as he passes the baton to the next generation of lean leaders. YOU'LL LEARN:Why lean principles still apply even as technology evolves and takes over tasks once done by peopleWhat's stopping organizations from fully embracing lean principles and practicesWhy lean must be leader-led—not outsourced to consultants or internal operational excellence teams How developing people's capabilities for problem-solving at all levels is critical to successThe true role and purpose of managementIf you are passionate about the potential of lean's impact now and in the future, this is an episode you won't want to miss. ABOUT MY GUEST:James P. Womack, PhD, is the former research director of MIT's International Motor Vehicle Program who led the team that coined the term “lean production” to describe the Toyota Production System. Along with Daniel Jones, he co-authored “The Machine That Changed the World”, “Lean Thinking”, and “Lean Solutions”. Jim is the founder of Lean Enterprise Institute where he continues to serve as a senior advisor. IMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/38Listen to Part 1 where lean has failed and succeeded: ChainOfLearning.com/37Connect with James Womack: linkedin.com/in/womack-james-52763b212Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Learn about my Japan Study Trip program: kbjanderson.com/JapanTrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:01:48 Two things Jim would do differently in introducing lean 03:92 Why consultant-driven Kaizen falls short05:29 The origin of the word “lean”08:29 The alternative label instead of the term "lean"10:26 How lean intersects with emerging and established technologies14:43 Analyzing AI's effectiveness through the value stream16:02 Jim's greatest surprise of the 40 + years of lean19:10 Changes at Toyota's Operations Management Development Division22:27 Why problem-solving skills matter at every level23:34 Jim's parting advice for the next generation of lean leaders Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Study Trip - super early registration rate now through March 31st! https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/ 

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- The pitfalls of pursuing global optima- The benefits of 90% planning 10% execution (and how we're not doing that now)- Process Spectrum- The challenges of getting AI to output good information - Optimization reducing flexibility Please join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Study Trip - super early registration rate now through March 31st! “Lean has failed.”That's the bold statement James Womack—founder of the Lean Enterprise Institute and MIT researcher whose team introduced the term “lean” to the world—made at a conference where we both recently spoke.That really stuck with me.Has lean really failed? If so, what can we do to course correct?To explore this, I invited him to share his reflections and experiences over the past 40 years—where his vision for lean management has fallen short, where it's succeeded, and what we can learn for the future.In this episode, we take a hard look at lean's evolution, from James' original vision following the publication of “The Machine that Changed the World” nearly 4 decades ago to its real-world impact today.Tune in for powerful stories and insights from one of the founders of the lean movement, a chance to rethink what's next for lean leadership, and how you can adjust your approach towards organizational transformation.YOU'LL LEARN:The 5 critical interlocking elements of successful lean enterprise transformations — and what's missingHow to build systems and practices to sustain a lean culture that truly supports frontline teamsWhy most companies get their approach to operational excellence backwards and the challenge of getting leaders to see lean principles as the key to getting resultsWhy off-shoring and out-sourcing aren't long-term solutionsThe biggest challenges leaders face with lean transformationDon't miss Part 2 of this conversation where we explore lean's future, its relevance for today's global lean community, and James' advice for the next generation of leaders.ABOUT MY GUEST:James P. Womack, PhD, is the former research director of MIT's International Motor Vehicle Program who led the team that coined the term “lean production” to describe the Toyota Production System. Along with Daniel Jones, he co-authored “The Machine That Changed the World”, “Lean Thinking”, and “Lean Solutions”. James is the founder of Lean Enterprise Institute where he continues to serve as a senior advisor.IMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/37Connect with James Womack: linkedin.com/in/womack-james-52763b212Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 02:41 James' vision of what lean's impact would be today07:25 Five interlocking pieces of lean transformation and what's been missed07:49 Misconception of Kaizen14:27 Challenges in sustaining lean practices19:00 Lean leadership if implemented the right way21:58 Impact of offshoring and outsourcing24:29 Barriers to senior management buy-in26:42 Challenges in the frontline healthcare system30:27 The importance of daily management and Kaizen37:46 Contributions to GE Appliance's success39:28 The meaning of constancy of purpose41:04 Importance of knowing your north star41:55 The creation of Hoshin planning and why it fails the first year43:54 How we get out of the short-term approach Apply for the Nov 2025 Japan Study Trip - super early registration rate now through March 31st! https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/ 

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each.Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCIPlease follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalciIn this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses.Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback!If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfgIf you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Jeff Sinclair, a senior global leader at McKinsey, discusses the history of operations at the firm. The firm was initially known as a strategy firm and did some organization and marketing work. However, in the 1980s, clients began to draw more attention to operations, particularly in the automotive industry in Europe and North America. Operations became a strategic function for automotive OEMs and part suppliers, as they needed to serve their customers with high quality, cost-effective, and operationally effective services. Operations Practice at McKinsey When Jeff joined the firm in 1981, there were about 500 people in the firm. Today, it is estimated that there are 40,000 people worldwide. The firm started building its operations capability in the 80s by recruiting people with specific functional expertise, particularly in manufacturing. They started hiring people from Toyota Supplier Support Center, and creating a well-defined career path within the firm, which is the specialist path or expert path. The operations practice was at the leading edge of other functional practices, such as marketing, market research, and organization. However, the firm had to create new career paths, which led to many iterations of the expert path. The firm had to continuously improve how it recognized and understood their contributions beyond the traditional generalist path. Bureaucratic Maneuvering in Creating a Career Path Jeff discusses the transition from a strong culture to multiple career paths within McKinsey. He explains that this change took about 18 years and was driven by the firm's strong culture and the willingness of senior partners in positions of power to help navigate the new path. As employees advanced in the firm, they had to develop relationships with senior executives, which led to ongoing opportunities to serve them. This made it difficult for experts to fit in and develop new service lines and ways of thinking about problem-solving. The firm struggled to recognize the contribution of subject matter expertise to their ability to serve clients and give them credit for developing new service lines and ways of helping clients execute more effectively. Experts were used on projects in a mixture of subject matter expertise, consulting  director roles, and full-time execution people.  The Evolution of Consultants at McKinsey  The firm gave some of the personnel role responsibility to the functional practices themselves, hiring lean manufacturing or supply chain experts into the practice. They would take over the personnel development role, evaluation of performance, counseling, and coaching on how to evolve these new career paths. Over time, the firm recognized the high value added contribution of functional practices and expanded its service to clients. While there is still a tension between generalist and specialist paths within McKinsey today, it has improved significantly. Bob Sternfels, the managing director of the firm, was a functional practice leader who recognized the level of contribution of functional practices and grew the career path within the firm. McKinsey's Expansion into other Industries The firm's operations practice evolved from a dominant career path of the generalist partner to a more diverse range of ways of delivering value for clients. The firm initially faced resistance from some office leaders who believed that the new approach would lead to professional suicide. However, over time, the firm embraced the idea of having multiple functional practices, including the operations practice. In the 90s, McKinsey expanded its service to healthcare providers, which led to the growth of the operations practice. This led to the development of Lean principles, such as the Toyota Production System, which were applied in various industries, such as healthcare, consumer goods, and banking. These principles allowed the firm to create real value in areas where people didn't expect it. One example of this transformation is the expansion of the healthcare practice into other industries, such as consumer goods and banking. This allowed the firm to draw in functional expertise from other industries, such as manufacturing and supply chain management, which allowed them to create real value in these areas. The McKinsey Impact  Jeff talks about the impact of McKinsey's operations practice on various industries in America. McKinsey has contributed to changes in healthcare operating theaters and hospitals, and even hospitals that didn't work with McKinsey may have learned from their projects. Jeff emphasizes the importance of a partnership within the firm, as it takes many people to make things happen. He believes that McKinsey's strengths lie in its ability to nurture the capability to grow and work with industry practices to deliver functional capabilities to clients.  The McKinsey Framework The firm organized itself to develop partnerships with industry practices and work in the wholesale fashion, and working in the retail side of the firm for example. They continuously invested in new knowledge, both bringing in established knowledge and developing their own. They also worked on career paths and managed practices and enterprise, creating a four-part framework of client knowledge, people, and infrastructure to build a practice. This framework was explicitly managed through the 90s and 2000s to create functional practices as legitimate entities in parallel with offices and industry practices, ensuring co-equalization between industry practice and functional practice. Building Manufacturing Capability Jeff shares his experiences with building manufacturing capability in a company. He partnered with Felix Brooke to understand and codify the technical, management, and people leadership systems that drive performance transformation. This expanded to include processes in healthcare and banking. Jeff also discusses the importance of understanding the current state of operational capability in an organization and applying Lean thinking at the overall organizational culture and capability building level. Jeff also emphasizes the need to invest in understanding how to design the operating and management systems, train people, build capability, and use pilot projects to demonstrate their effectiveness. Investment in Knowledge Project Work The conversation turns to the firm's investment in knowledge project work, which includes research and application engineering. McKinsey excels at translating various theories into service delivery capability service lines for clients. The firm invests a significant amount every year, spending more than the top five business schools combined on research and development of new service lines. They sponsor projects across multiple functional practices, including operations practice, to take their current knowledge to the next level and serve clients more effectively. Capability Building and Transformation McKinsey has developed a network of model factories around the world for capability building and transformation in manufacturing operations. The model factories are physical locations where McKinsey teams can bring client people in and train them in a simulated environment. The firm recognized that training for capability building in many organizations was weak. They formed teams around the world to identify the modules that people need to learn, such as lean principles, rapid change over stamping operations, pull scheduling, and the Kanban methodology. They codified and made tangible the processes. Over time, they accumulated multiple projects and started building knowledge outside of the manufacturing operation. To provide client training, the firm built multiple factories around the world. The first model factory was started in Germany. These small model factories were 15 to 20,000 square feet with real operations within them. These models helped with client training. The model factories were designed to provide a realistic experience for clients and to help clients learn and adapt to the changing needs of their operations. On Building a Practice Jeff helped launch a practice that focused on understanding customer value and defining functional specifications. This practice, which involves working with companies to define customer value, translates these requirements into functional specifications, which then translates into technical specifications that translates into the work that is being done. The practice evolved from helping clients drive growth in a market with potential opportunities. Jeff learned how to do this by working with people who knew how to do things like functional discovery and functional specification development. This led to the development of various product development programs, including consumer products, high tech, and healthcare. The practice began in traditional industries like automotive, industrial, and electronics but expanded to areas like consumer products, high tech, and healthcare.  Product Development Practice In the product development practice, some classic project types include product platforming, product development roadmaps, and product teardown projects. These projects help identify market applicability, customer needs, and the platform that needs to be put in place to have a range of product capability. By understanding how to think about the platform from both a hardware and software point of view, the product development roadmap can be managed to get products to market faster, with each product being cheaper to produce and having a competitive price point. Jeff shares one example of a project that was involved in a major acquisition included doing a product platforming strategy and a product development roadmap. This helped identify the range of market applicability, customer needs, and the platform that needs to be put in place to maximize the amount of commonality across the product line. By understanding how to think about the platform from both a hardware and software point of view, the product development roadmap could be managed in a way that got the product to market faster. Jeff also talks about reverse engineering.  Current Positions and Interests Jeff has been teaching at the University of Michigan, focusing on business and customer discovery. He teaches engineers that their designs need to be able to meet customer needs and be willing to pay for them. He also works with undergraduates in a consulting class at the business school, helping them develop turnaround strategies for companies in the avionics business. Jeff is an adjunct faculty member and has been doing this for about a dozen years. He is also involved in a startup consulting effort with his son, who worked for a small boutique firm called Magnet, which focuses on serving smaller companies, and he is an investor in various small, private equity owned and startup companies. Timestamps: 03:39: Building Operations Capability in the 1980s  07:45: Challenges in Creating Career Paths for Experts  09:55: Role of Experts in Projects  12:10: Evolution of Career Paths in the 1990s  17:10: Impact of Operations Practice on Industry Practices  31:36: Knowledge Initiatives and Model Factories  36:31: Product Development Practice  43:34: Reverse Engineering Projects  Links: Company website: https://shorewaypartners.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-sinclair-87a7392b/ Michigan Ross: https://michiganross.umich.edu/faculty-research/faculty/jeff-sinclair   Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, which has a mission of connecting independent management consultants with one another, creating opportunities for members to meet, build relationships, and share lessons learned. Learn more at www.umbrex.com.  

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss:- Breaking Logjams in Knowledge Work https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/breaking-logjams-in-knowledge-work/- POLCA Scheduling- Onsite challenges- In station quality for sales and R&D funnelPlease join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCIAnd follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalciIn this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses.Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback!If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfgIf you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturingTo reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreon! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Organizing Arda's internal processes with Kanban - Accuracy in communication and documentation - Organizing with Pull without a consistent Takt Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Sushi restaurants should have small signs - Continuous improvement radiates out into the community - Minimizing WIP in software is so much more obviously worthwhile than in manufacturing - Feed forward at Costco Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Read the blog post Taiichi Ohno, the father of the Toyota Production System, once said, “Without Standard Work, there is no Kaizen.” That's a pretty bold statement, but when you think about the continuous improvement cycle, it makes a lot of sense. How can you move from the current state to the desired state if the current state is a moving target? Standard Work, which documents the current best practice for performing a task or process, and ensures that everyone is applying it, is a prerequisite for improvement. Here are 15 ways that Standard Work benefits organizations that leverage it.

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Kanban in the home - Continuous improvement, and documentation are key - We need to get better at 3S'ing - The drill seed was awesome Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode, Bill Bellows and Andrew Stotz dive further into acceptability versus desirability in the quality world. Is it enough that something is "good" - meets requirements - or do you need to focus on degrees of "good"? How can you tell the difference? TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.5 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we dive deeper into the teachings of Dr. W Edwards Deming. Today, I'm continuing my discussion with Bill Bellows, who has spent 31 years helping people apply Dr. Deming's ideas to become aware of how their thinking is holding them back from their biggest opportunities. Episode, today is episode eight, Beyond Looking Good. Bill, take it away.   0:00:25.4 Bill Bellows: Hi, Andrew. How are you doing?   0:00:29.1 AS: Beyond looking good. So beyond my good looks, that's what you're saying. Okay.   0:00:33.6 BB: No, but it's funny, this beyond looking good and so I could say, Andrew, how you feeling? Oh, I'm feeling good. Right? I'm feeling good. So we have this, and that's part of why I think is funny is how are things? Things are good, things are good.   0:00:49.3 AS: Looking good.   0:00:51.0 BB: And that's what I find is, I mean, and it's not that people are necessarily honest, but when somebody says how was your day? Good. Or it could be the extreme other, and we won't use any foul language, but it's like, but I find it's just a very common, how are you feeling? Oh, I'm feeling good. Or I could say, great, which is better than good. So anyway, so I'm gonna pick up on, well first say that a heavy focus of this series, Misunderstanding Quality, is for you, quality professionals out there around the world that are excited by Deming's work, learning about Deming's work, trying to bring Dr. Deming's ideas to your organization in your quality function.   0:01:41.6 BB: Or it could be, you're elsewhere in the organization and you believe that...you're inspired to realize that there's something about how quality is managed in your organization, whether you're in design or manufacturing, which is inhibiting what you might want otherwise to do. And what I'm hoping is that the examples and concepts presented here can help you, one, absorb the ideas yourself, begin to absorb them, eventually explain them to people at work. At least once a month I'm contacted by someone listening to the podcast who says, hey, they wanna connect with me on LinkedIn, and then quite often I reach out to them and ideally end up in a conversation with them to find out more about what they're trying to do.   0:02:38.7 BB: But what I'm hoping is that this fundamental information, knowledge, wisdom is useful to you and personally learning, but then depending on what you wanna do with it, you have to engage others. And that's why I've been encouraging, and this is what I do with people I mentor, is you have to develop the ability to explain it to others. 'Cause you can't be the only one talking about these differences. You're gonna drive your coworkers nuts. You might get in a jam where somebody's confused by what you're trying to do, and you need help, or you need help in implementation, help in explaining.   0:03:17.6 BB: So I'm gonna go back to acceptability and desirability. And I was in the Finland, the Netherlands and the Sweden about a month ago with friends in each of those countries. And what came up was, again, this acceptability/desirability and that contrast. So acceptability again, as a reminder is, there's no need to know where we are within the requirements. It is absolutely good. All we know is that it meets requirements for whatever the requirements are. It is you're comfortable with good versus bad. I was talking with somebody, some clients today and we were talking about, pass versus fail. And I said, 'cause it's really a pass. Acceptability is a pass-fail system. And what does passing mean?   0:04:17.5 BB: Passing means not failing. It's like, years ago when I was a summer student working for this jet engine company in Connecticut and got together for beers one Friday night with a couple of the executives, and there were a couple of us summer interns there with these directors. Yeah. Senior directors. And one of the senior directors says to us, says, so what's the difference between business and crime? And we're like, this and this and this and this. And I don't know what our answers were, but we. And finally one of them said, no, no, no, no, no, no. He said, the basic difference is crime's illegal.   0:05:03.0 BB: So you end up with what is bad, what is bad is what's not good. And what is good, good is what's not bad. And so what is passing? Passing is not failing. And so when I was explaining to somebody today I was asking him, what's the letter grade? What letter grade? In fact, I asked a very senior NASA executive this question once. What letter grade do they expect for everything they buy that put into their missions? And he said, A plus. And I said, A plus is not the requirement. He said, what's the requirement? I said, D minus. And he is like, nah, it's not D minus. I said, your procurement system is based on things being good or things being bad. He said, yep.   0:05:45.7 BB: I said, well, what is good but passing? Right. Good is not... Good is... To be good is to not be bad, to pass is to not fail. What is crime? What is crime is what's illegal versus legal. It's one or the other. We talked once on the previous podcast about Kepner-Tregoe problem solving, decision making. And part of decision making I mentioned is you come up with a bunch of characteristics of a decision. You're buying a house and you want it to be one story, three bedrooms, two bathrooms, whatever it is. And you put down all the requirements and then you ask for each of those requirements. Is it a must or a want? And a must is yes or no. It has it or it doesn't. So it must have three bedrooms, must be one story. The must could be must be under a million dollars or whatever the number is.   0:06:53.5 BB: And then you get into, well, is that really a must or is that a high weighted want? For our daughter, Allison, I remember taking her out to buy a bike for her birthday one year and she said, well, how much can we spend? And I said, $200. So, what did she say, Andrew? "What if it's 201?" Well, then you get into, well, is that a must or a high weighted want? You know what I say? Depends on how much money's in your wallet. If you don't have $201, it is a must if you're...   0:07:34.7 AS: I thought she was gonna say, if I can get it for 150, can I keep the 50 bucks?   0:07:41.3 BB: But that's it. So acceptability is like treating it as a must. It is absolute. It has to be three bedrooms. And then what is desirability? Desirability is the lower the cost, the better, the higher the performance, the better. And so acceptability is absolute, it is good versus bad. Desirability there's relativeness. And the next thing I wanna say is why should we be interested in desirability? Which also based on what we've talked about before, is to be appreciative of desirability in regard to the Dr. Deming's Red Bead Experiment. Deming Red Bead Experiment, we had red beads and white beads the customer wanted white beads. And then one of the things we looked at was, if all the red beads are gone, can we still improve?   0:08:46.1 BB: And then people would say, well, we can make the white beads faster, we can make them cheaper, but can we make the white beads better? And the huge blind spot and asking that question to audiences on a regular basis is, they get stuck. Well, then we got into, well, what if there's variation in the white beads? So part of desirability is that there's variation in good. And that allows us to go beyond just being good to better. But what is better than? Well, better than is, I mean, what would be better for the organization would be a better appreciation of the white bead variation. One, could prevent red beads from happening in the first place. And so why do we have a gas gauge that goes anywhere from E to full? It allows us to watch the gauge go down and go down and go down.   0:09:39.7 BB: What does that? It's watching variation in good and then getting gas before it runs out. So if we use a run chart and monitor vacuum level in a braze oven if we're monitoring something on a variable way, not just saying it's good or it's bad, that allows us to see trouble coming before it happens. We could use that information to create a control chart and go one step further. And so relative to a given characteristic, what we're doing is trying to prevent non-conformances, trying to prevent bad from happening by monitoring what is good. What we can also do and what I shared is with appreciation of Dr. Taguchi's insights, the idea that the closer we are to that ideal value so when we're at home cutting the piece of wood really close to that line, why do we do that?   0:10:33.7 BB: Because at home we have to get those pieces of wood together and they're not quite square or straight, then that's extra work over there. So those are two aspects of the value proposition for desirability. And then I wanted to mention is, our son is a handyman and a pet sitter. And he is self-employed in both. And the handyman stuff involves and sometimes it involves woodworking. And recently he's doing some work in our house and some really cool stuff. So he experiments in our house, which is great for us. He also experiments in our daughter's condo. So there's great opportunities for him to practice doing something. So he was cutting some long pieces of wood and they weren't, he was very frustrated. They weren't coming out straight. So we called a friend who's a master craftsman over, and he gave us both a lesson on how to, how desirability, how to get a really straight cut, not just anywhere within spec, but you need a really straight cut so they fit together well.   0:11:38.6 BB: Well, this carpenter friend, Alex, shared with me a while ago, years ago, what it's like in the construction industry. 'Cause I explained to him acceptability, desirability, focusing on the target. And in the world of construction, he gets involved, he'll be involved on a team building a multimillion dollar home for six months to a year. And it's not uncommon he's called in to have to deal with everybody else barely meeting requirements. And his job is to go in there and straighten things up because they're not quite right. And that's all this compensation stuff. And that's what with his insights trying to help our son get around that. All right, so, I do wanna share a couple anecdotes from Rocketdyne the world of acceptability and so it was a fun story.   0:12:41.2 BB: I was meeting with a small team and one of them was a senior quality manager and in the quality organization. And he says, you know what the problem is Bill? He says, what's, you know what the problem is? He said, "the problem is the executives VP of quality and as directors are not getting the quality data fast enough." So I said, "well, what data?" And he says, "scrap and rework data. He said, "they're just not getting it fast enough." So I said, "I don't care how fast they get it it's already happened."   [laughter]   0:13:18.9 BB: And I kept saying to him, the speed doesn't matter. And so how many red beads did we have today? Well, we gotta instantly report the number of red beads on a cell phone. No. If you monitor the white bead variation, then that's a means to do that. Also say, when I joined Rocketdyne in 1990, there was a big movement on the space shuttle main engine program. And I don't know what instigated this, but Rocketdyne developed, designed and developed and then produced for many years the space shuttle main engine. I mean the world's first reusable rocket engine. And there was a movement before I got there to change the drawings. And so a set of manufacturing drawings will have a nominal value, let's say 10. And then it might be something must be 10 plus or minus one.   0:14:19.4 BB: And what does that mean in terms of acceptability? It means anything between nine and 11. And then what I learned was they'll say that the number 10, that's the nominal value. And then we have 10 plus or minus one. Well, what matters to the person downstream is not the 10 plus or minus one. What matters to the person downstream is it's gotta be between nine and 11. So no matter what that nominal is, the nominal goes out the window. So there was a movement to get rid of the nominal value. 'Cause now the machinist has to do the math, 10 plus or minus one. Okay? Anything between nine and 11. So we're gonna save you all that trouble and just give you two numbers. The min and the max. And so what is that system? That is a system based on acceptability.   0:15:07.0 BB: And so that was the starting point when I joined. And so what I wanted to add for our listeners, if you're in an organization, this came up recently with one of my clients, and they're talking about the nominal value of that 10. The 10 plus or minus one, or it could be the nominal value is 11 and they'll say 11 plus nothing minus two. And so what does that mean? 11 plus nothing means eleven's the max minus two means nine and 11. So when I saw it doesn't really matter what the nominal value is, 'cause all that's gonna happen is gonna get translated to a minimum and max. And so in this client, they're talking about nominal values, nominal values. And I said, my recommendation is when it comes to desirability, don't say nominal.   0:16:00.3 BB: 'Cause I'm not convinced we use that term the same way. What I would suggest, again, this is for those listening to the podcast on a regular basis, is don't use the word nominal. It's confusing. Use the word target. Say that is the ideal. And the idea, by using the word target, which may not be part of the vocabulary, you can differentiate from nominal, which I find to be confusing and just say that's what we want. I'm gonna give you another fun story relative to acceptability. I was at a supplier conference, so in the room are a couple hundred Rocketdyne suppliers. And the person speaking before me says, and there was some very heavy duty brow beating.   0:16:48.0 BB: And the person ahead of me says, when we give a Rocketdyne employee a job and they sign that it's good, that's their personal warranty, Andrew. That's their personal warranty. So for you suppliers, when you tell us something is good, that's your personal warranty to us. And so that has to be transmitted to your organization. That's personal warranties. We take it seriously. This is the space business, Andrew. So that was going on and there was some heavy duty browbeating. And on the one hand I'm thinking, I wonder what happened recently where somebody said, Andrew, get up there on stage and go browbeat 'em, go browbeat 'em. And so this guy's up there, browbeating, browbeating.   0:17:42.7 AS: We need people to take this serious.   0:17:44.0 BB: Well, this is personal warranty, Andrew. When you say it's good, that's your warranty. So I got up and I told the story of the bowling ball being left in the doorway of the bedroom. And I said, the fact of the matter is, Wilson gave us his personal warranty that the bowling ball was in the bedroom. And just trying to say, 'cause the personal warranty is not a personal warranty of an A plus Andrew. It's not a personal warranty. It's a personal warranty that it's good and what is good, Andrew? Not bad. And so when I hear this talk of personal warranty, it's like it's not all that it's cracked up to be. When you start to look at what is good is what's not bad.   0:18:36.4 AS: By the way, I have a funny one to share in this one. And that is, every time I start my ethics in finance class with a new batch of fourth year finance students here in Thailand, class starts at 9:00 AM and the students think that the time to arrive is somewhere a little bit before or a little bit after nine. And when they arrive at the class at 9:01 or actually just after 9:00, they find the door is locked.   0:19:12.3 BB: Yeah.   0:19:13.3 AS: And then I leave them outside. And then after about five minutes, I go out after they've built up a group of people out there and I come out and I talk to them. I said just so you know I want you to be on time for my class. Don't tell me about traffic. Don't tell me you're busy. I got a full-time job and I'm working like crazy and I'm here for you. I'm not making much money out of this. So show me the respect and be here on time. They come in, they walk in shame, past all their classmates, and then they sit down and then I lock the door again, and of course another batch comes at about 9:05 or 9:10.   0:19:46.0 AS: And then I do the same. And then I bring them in, and then next week they come and they're all there at 8:58, let's say 8:59, but nobody arrives past 9:00. And then in the following weeks, I never locked a door anymore. Curious how things change. And of course, things start to shift back to that range around it, but it just made me think about what I do in trying to communicate that, whether it's right or wrong or whatever. But I like doing it because I want the students, I wanna set the parameters from the beginning. Like, take it seriously.   0:20:26.4 BB: Oh yeah. I go to a daily meeting and it starts exactly on the hour and it's done exactly. And everybody knows that. And the degree to which things are accomplished and 'cause the whole strategy was to develop a cadence that, yeah, no, that's...   0:20:56.8 AS: And I have a hard time. I want to, with my valuation masterclass bootcamp, which I do have classes at 6:00 PM. I'm generally pretty lenient letting students come in, but there's a part of me that has... I've started locking the room after 6:03 or so, and then I'll unlock it five minutes, 10 minutes later and let a few people that are... But I've had some questions in my mind as to whether I should just be hard line and say, it starts at 6:00, if you don't make it, see you next time. Now we also record it so they can watch it. But I don't know, I haven't really figured out whether I should be that tough or not.   0:21:35.0 BB: Yeah. And that's what it comes down to. I think depending on the environment, there could be, I mean, it's about synchronizing watches, right?   0:21:48.9 AS: Well, yeah. And the other thing that you could say is that, well, Andrew, come on if you understand variation, then you understand that there's gonna be some people that are gonna be late, and there's gonna be some people that are gonna be early. You set the target at 6:00 PM what else would you expect? But I guess what I'm thinking is, if for a student they should be thinking, I need to shift my target to be 8:00, sorry, 5:55 if the meeting's at 6:00, that way I could be a little bit late, you know?   0:22:16.2 BB: Exactly.   0:22:16.7 AS: And it's same concept, it's just that shifting that target. So maybe I need to start working on that one.   0:22:25.3 BB: No and it's respect for the other 15 people in the meeting that... you know, and this idea that we are... This meeting is designed for this reason, but it has to fit the work. And, yeah, I mean, so is that necessary for a college class? Again, I mean, if it depends on how much you wanna squeeze in. And five minutes if you're trying to get a whole bunch in and develop a cadence, then, yeah.   0:23:07.6 AS: Well, it also depends. What are you teaching.   0:23:11.4 BB: Exactly.   0:23:12.5 AS: In my Valuation Masterclass about valuing companies, I've decided I'm not teaching Excel. You can go somewhere else and get that, and people ask me for it, and I let them use my Excel model that I've created, but I've just decided that's not what I'm gonna teach. And so in this case, with being an ethics class, I think it is probably important to teach about the importance of time and understanding that. And so for that, but for the bootcamp, Valuation Masterclass Bootcamp, I am trying to teach discipline and helping young people realize you gotta deliver. And so that's it. By the way you're looking good, Bill. So let us summarize beyond looking good. How would you like people to... What would you like them to take away from our discussion on this topic?   0:24:07.3 BB: It goes, this is...I mean, we started off this whole series talking about quality and the eight dimensions of quality and the book and the article by David Garvin of the Harvard Business School. So to first introduce in this series called Misunderstanding Quality, that there are dimensions of quality. And amongst those dimensions were capacity and reliability and repairability. And one was aesthetics, and one was a sense of a reputation that through everything else, you're developing a reputation. Well, one of them was acceptability, and that then was the inspiration to get into the contrast between acceptability and desirability.   0:25:05.6 BB: And there's a lot to that. And so what I found in the beginning I had a little bit in mind based on some things I've seen. And then the more I researched it, the more I saw and what I wanna get into next time is, and these are questions I was asking people in the trip to Europe is, first is, can acceptability - a focus on acceptability explain the incredible reliability of Toyota products? At least that I have experienced. Can you explain that with acceptability? And I don't think so. Next, okay, I'll go back to my notes here.   0:25:57.7 BB: Next is, does your organization, again, for those calling in, the better you understand this distinction between acceptability and desirability. Does your organization distinguish those? Does your quality system... Is your quality system based on acceptability? Does it have acceptability and desirability? That is a question for our audience. What I want to get into next time is, and I think I've mentioned this before, I've read much a great deal about Lean. I've gone to Lean conferences. I've written plenty of articles for the Lean Management Journal involving reading articles and commenting on them. Everything I see within Lean is acceptability. I don't see any mention of desirability. Six Sigma quality is that we wanna have 3.4 defects per million. There's no mention in acceptability, either explicitly or implicitly to this difference between acceptability and desirability nor in Lean.   0:27:04.9 AS: Sorry, can you clarify that for just a second? Okay. So you said Lean was one and Six Sigma was the other, which was focused on which?   0:27:13.4 BB: Well, what I'm saying is that I don't see explicitly... I don't see a call out in the Lean literature a conversation about acceptability and desirability. What I see is plenty of evidence of an acceptability-based quality mindset in Lean, in Six Sigma quality, in Lean Six Sigma, in Operational Excellence, in the Toyota Production System is what I see is a heavy emphasis directly about things being good versus bad. I don't see any inference to desirability that there's something beyond good in that system.   0:28:06.4 BB: And that's what I've been wanting to point out, is I think Dr. Deming's work is unique in its appreciation of that distinction in explaining the difference and the value of understanding when acceptability makes sense, when desirability makes sense. And that's what this whole Misunderstanding Quality series, a big part that I'm trying to introduce through my experiences is, if you're interested in moving your organization or just your personal awareness beyond a good mindset into continual improvement, that's what I'm trying to bring about in this series.   0:28:50.5 AS: Fantastic.   0:28:50.9 BB: That's my story, Andrew, and I'm sticking to it.   0:28:53.7 AS: Yeah. Exciting. Exciting. Well, Bill on behalf...   0:28:58.9 BB: It'll be on my tombstone, acceptability is not desirability.   0:29:01.7 AS: Yeah, exactly. We have accepted the death. It is acceptable. It's not desirable, but... On behalf of everyone at The Deming Institute, I want to thank you, Bill, for this discussion. Again, it's a fun one to hear what you're thinking about. And for listeners, remember to go to Deming.org to continue your journey. Any final thoughts Bill?   0:29:31.4 BB: Keep looking good Andrew, keep looking good.   0:29:34.0 AS: I wanna go beyond looking good. If you wanna keep in touch with Bill, just find him on LinkedIn. He responds. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming. People are entitled to joy in work.

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Kanban, channel splitting, and feed forward Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

BONUS: Rediscovering Agile's Roots, What We Can Learn From Lean Manufacturing with Doug Rabow In this BONUS episode, we reconnect with Doug Rabow, a previous guest and an expert in Lean-Agile strategic management known for his dedication to fostering empowered teams and enhancing processes through Lean principles. This discussion dives into the foundations of Lean, its evolution from manufacturing, and how software development can benefit from these time-tested methodologies. Join us as we uncover how adopting Lean can transform software practices and culture to align more closely with the true spirit of Agile. Introduction to Lean and the Toyota Production System (TPS) "Lean isn't just a methodology; it's an ongoing journey of learning and problem-solving." Doug begins by mapping out the origins of Lean and its cornerstone, the Toyota Production System (TPS) (Wikipedia article on TPS). Initially crafted to solve operational challenges in manufacturing, TPS introduced principles aimed at efficiency and continual improvement. Doug underscores that while Agile has gained broader recognition, Lean provides an essential, often overlooked foundation that extends beyond frameworks like Lean Six Sigma or isolated process improvements. "Lean isn't a set-and-forget solution; it's about cultivating an evolving culture of problem-solving." Cultural Foundations of Lean: Adapting for Software Teams "Respect for people and a culture of continuous improvement form the heartbeat of Lean." Transitioning to software development, Doug highlights the core cultural tenets that empower teams to excel. He points out that scaling these principles—such as fostering a culture where problem-solving is embedded in daily practices—is vital due to the complexities of software as a people-driven process. Referencing Conway's Law, Doug illustrates how the structure of teams directly impacts code and workflow. "Developing software is as much about building teams as it is about building products. Lean teaches us that these are inseparable." The Toyota Way: A Blueprint for Excellence "Applying Lean is about chasing excellence, not just managing tasks." Jeffrey Liker's The Toyota Way introduces 14 principles that Doug relates to software environments, emphasizing the value of discipline and respect for people. He discusses the importance of aligning processes with long-term strategies and ensuring that these processes are designed to foster continuous learning. Doug reiterates that truly understanding and integrating Lean requires more than surface-level adoption. "Respect for people isn't an add-on in Lean; it's the root of a thriving, innovative team culture." Waste in Software Development: Insights from the Poppendiecks "Work in progress is not an asset; it's a liability." Doug shares insights from Mary and Tom Poppendieck's (Mary and Tom have been on our podcast here) pioneering work on Lean Software Development, particularly their adaptation of waste types from manufacturing to software. These include partially done work, extra features, relearning, handoffs, and task switching. Doug points out that waste reduction strategies—such as Kanban and pull systems—help teams minimize bottlenecks and optimize flow. "Software development, like manufacturing, benefits from visualizing value streams and focusing on reducing waste." Metrics and Measurement in Lean "The right process will create the right results—focus on process metrics, not individual metrics." In Lean, metrics are crucial for assessing and refining processes. Doug advocates for using metrics like cycle time and throughput to provide teams with insights into system efficiency. He explains how focusing on process metrics rather than individual productivity helps sustain a culture that prioritizes team learning and growth. "When we measure what truly matters—the process—we empower teams to solve problems collectively and improve outcomes." About Doug Rabow Doug Rabow is a dedicated practitioner of Lean-Agile strategic management with an emphasis on building empowered teams and optimizing processes through Lean methodologies. His extensive experience in applying Lean principles in software development has made him a trusted voice in the Agile and Lean community. You can link with https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougrabow.

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Presented by Brent Loescher on Nov 19, 2024 Get slides and more TKMG Academy An exploration of implementing LSW throughout Sperber Companies, a distributed Landscape Maintenance business made up of organically-grown business and M&A (read multiple cultures). Covering everything from embracing current cultures, developing an organizational culture with a common language, level setting business leader responsibilities, introducing Lean thinking, and implementing daily rhythms, this webinar will discuss the efforts, hurdles, and learnings this 5-year-old business is living every day. Brent has spent more than 20 years working in and on the business, improving operations within high-speed manufacturing, warehousing, distribution, distributed-services environments, and governmental agencies. A Lean practitioner at heart, Brent received his formal Toyota Production System training while working for Toyota Motor Sales in their North American Parts Operations. While with Toyota, he was responsible for operational design of two new warehouses built in Puerto Rico and Mexico City. A certified TPS trainer, he developed strategic warehouse design standards, while also serving as the Toyota Customer Service Diversity and Inclusion Champion Coordinator. He helped develop a Lean program for the landscape maintenance industry, implementing and evolving continuous improvement programs across the country since 2009. This included co-leading a team focused on the operational integration of a $2 billion dollar merger. Brent is currently responsible for Learning & Development and CI for a start-up Landscape Maintenance & Construction company doing work in 14 states. He has a BA in Business Management from Mercyhurst University and is a retired military veteran, having served 21 years in the US Army and US Army Reserve.

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Surge capacity in a growing business - Kanban loop sizing - Information batching - Increase your inventory - Rely on pull for the shop floor Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Mark Graban, from KaiNexus, chats with Brent Loescher about his upcoming webinar: It will be presented live on November 19 from 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm ET Register here An exploration of implementing LSW throughout Sperber Companies, a distributed Landscape Maintenance business made up of organically-grown business and M&A (read multiple cultures). Covering everything from embracing current cultures, developing an organizational culture with a common language, level setting business leader responsibilities, introducing Lean thinking, and implementing daily rhythms, this webinar will discuss the efforts, hurdles, and learnings this 5-year-old business is living every day. About Brent: Brent has spent more than 20 years working in and on the business, improving operations within high-speed manufacturing, warehousing, distribution, distributed-services environments, and governmental agencies. A Lean practitioner at heart, Brent received his formal Toyota Production System training while working for Toyota Motor Sales in their North American Parts Operations. While with Toyota, he was responsible for operational design of two new warehouses built in Puerto Rico and Mexico City. A certified TPS trainer, he developed strategic warehouse design standards, while also serving as the Toyota Customer Service Diversity and Inclusion Champion Coordinator. He helped develop a Lean program for the landscape maintenance industry, implementing and evolving continuous improvement programs across the country since 2009. This included co-leading a team focused on the operational integration of a $2 billion dollar merger. Brent is currently responsible for Learning & Development and CI for a start-up Landscape Maintenance & Construction company doing work in 14 states. He has a BA in Business Management from Mercyhurst University and is a retired military veteran, having served 21 years in the US Army and US Army Reserve. Brent is a girl-dad that, along with his wife, Kim, is anxiously awaiting the birth of their second grandchild. In his free time, he finds a way to see the Green Bay Packers wherever they play, enjoys boating, and spending time being creative around the house.

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Stoplight vs roundabout. Real world command and control vs pull - Critical chain in a machine shop - Eating our own cooking - Go to the gemba - Super fast changeovers Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

Blog post My whole career, I have worked with the Lean methodology (aka the Toyota Production System). I've just really never done much with Six Sigma. I've read about Six Sigma. I took a Green Belt course when I worked at Dell in the late 90s. I've studied and used statistical methods (especially what I learned in my Industrial Engineering studies and at MIT), but I've never done anything I would call Six Sigma in my career. I have respect for Six Sigma as a discipline, just as if I were a chef, I would have respect for pastry chefs. They can co-exist in the kitchen. You might both use whisks, but you have slightly different training to do different things. These roles aren't interchangeable, and neither are Lean and Six Sigma. That's one reason I get riled up about so-called “Lean Sigma” or “Lean Six Sigma.” Most of the “L.A.M.E.” (Lean As Mistakenly Explained) examples that I see on the interwebs come from “Lean Sigma” discussions, especially on LinkedIn. What are the fallacies that are thrown around? They include, but are not limited to: Lean is about the average, Six Sigma is about the variation Lean is about internal processes, Six Sigma is customer-focused Lean is for efficiency; you need Six Sigma for quality (this one is the fault of Mike George and his books, many say) Lean and Six Sigma are just toolboxes, and you use whichever is appropriate for the problem at hand These are all incorrect, as somebody with good Lean training or Lean experience would realize. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lean-blog-audio/support

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

This week we have part-two of our discussion with my co-author Donal O'Coisdealbha on the Toyota Production System, and its implications for socialism. You can find some of Donal's writings on his blog called the office for control over results.Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/FromAlpha2OmegaDonals blog:https://theofficeforcontroloverresults.wordpress.com/ Book Website:https://theclasslesssocietyinmotion.com/

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Buffer and pull - Visual controls for the win - System 2 VS system 1 thinking is the goal of lean maybe? - Pull is more upfront work but push is always a lot of work Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

In this Concepts Edition episode Uriel and Devin discuss: - Pull vs capacity - Designing buffers - Without standards there is no improvement - Amnesty day Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI And follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us. www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com

This week we have the first of a two-parter with my co-author Donal O'Coisdealbha on the Toyota Production System, and its implications for socialism. Donal has recently started a blog for those interested in the TPS and such topics as statistical process control, control systems engineering, operations research and management science, called 'The Office For Control Over Results'. (https://theofficeforcontroloverresults.wordpress.com/). If you'd like to find out more about the book and how you could help support us in the project, head on over to theclasslesssocietyinmotion.comPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/FromAlpha2Omega

Is quality simply a matter of two categories: good and bad? But then how do you get to "better"? In this episode, Bill Bellows and Andrew Stotz discuss categories and continuum thinking. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.4 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we dive deeper into the teachings of Dr. W Edwards Deming. Today I'm continuing my discussion with Bill Bellows who has spent 31 years helping people apply Dr. Deming's ideas to become aware of how their thinking is holding them back from their biggest opportunities. And today is episode six, Category Thinking and Continuum Thinking. Bill, take it away.   0:00:27.9 Bill Bellows: Welcome Andrew great to see you again. All right, so in podcast five, I went back and it was just posted by The Deming Institute. And I just wanna clarify again on the topic of acceptability and desirability. Where we're going tonight is looking at acceptability and desirability in a little bit more detail, a little bit differently, but those are still the prevailing themes. And again, I just wanna reinforce that none of this is to imply that desirability is better than acceptability. What's important is to be aware of when I'm using acceptability thinking. And when I'm using desirability thinking and use the one that makes the most sense in that situation. We were talking earlier about companies whose products we enjoy using and we're loyal to them. And I mentioned that my wife and I have developed a loyalty to Toyota products.   0:01:40.4 BB: Going back to 1989 was our first Toyota product. And I knew I wanted a pickup truck. 'Cause I was borrowing a pickup truck from a number of friends and I thought, I really like a pickup truck. There's a lot you can do with a pickup truck. So, I knew I wanted a pickup truck. And I knew from having worked in my father's gas station, I had reason to believe I wanted a Japanese pickup truck and not an American pickup truck. So, I then it was a question of is it a Mazda, Toyota.   0:02:11.1 AS: Nissan.   0:02:13.2 BB: Sorry Nissan. And I looked at all of them and yeah I just all I knew is I was gonna be one of those. And I think the major reason I went with... My wife and I went with a Toyota... I don't think the prices were that different. But it just had a, it was the styling was a little bit better. But I did not... That's why I bought it.   0:02:46.5 AS: The loyalty wasn't built yet.   0:02:49.0 BB: No I knew to stay away... I knew I had seen plenty of examples of... Well, I had traded in my first car that my father, my parents got me when I was in college was a 1975 Chevy Nova. Four door Chevy Nova. And the reason four doors is important is a... If it was a two door, the door would be longer. But it was a four door. By the time I gave that car to a friend, the engine was running beautifully but the body was falling apart. And, so, by the time I sold it to get the pickup truck, in order to get out of it, I'd have to throw my shoulder into the driver's door. Why? Because the door droop was so great that when you close the door, I mean the door drooped and this is not a four door, this is a two door. So, imagine if it was a two door the door would be even heavier. So, on a four door, the door drooped. And, so, when you closed it, you'd had to lift it and then close it in order to get out you had to... Oh, it's just my wife couldn't drive. It was just a nuisance.   0:04:17.6 AS: And, that in '75 was just about when the Japanese were really starting to go after the US car makers. And but I want to tell you just a quick one. I can't remember if I've told you, but I used to have a 1963 Lincoln Continental here in beautiful Bangkok. And I owned it for 10 years. And then eventually I sold it. But what a beautiful car. And people always ask me the same thing and they said, isn't it hard to take care of? And I said, you gotta remember back in those days, cars were simple.   0:04:49.1 BB: Yeah, yeah. So, the... So, with... So, the experience of 14 years or so, with the '75 Chevy Nova. And the door was like the straw that broke the camel's back. It just done with this, all right. So, we're gonna buy Japanese, bought a Toyota. That was the first one. And I think I've mentioned in the first podcast I mentioned that we had a 1998 Toyota Sienna, which is their first, it was their Toyota third attempt at a minivan. The first one I think was underpowered, the second one... And we knew we wanted a minivan. It was time, the kids were getting a little bit bigger. It was time for minivan. And just as we were ready to go buy it, they had a... I think a competitor came out with dual sliding doors. Dual sliding doors. And, so, instead of Toyota coming out with a one sliding door, they stepped back. I think Chrysler came out with two sliding doors. And they figured we can't come to market with one sliding door. They've got two sliding doors. So, then we waited another year and they finally came out and given all of our delight with the Toyota pickup truck, boom, that's what we wanted. And then the transmission failed, six months later with 10,000 miles in the car.   0:06:18.5 BB: And I have a photo of that. Not only did the transmission fail at 10,000 miles, but it failed on Christmas morning on our way to see friends about an hour away. And this guy, people were going to see, he knew I loved Toyota. And when he drove to pick us up, we transferred everything from that to his Ford F-150. He says to me... So, then we had to have the car towed on a flatbed to his house and the next day to the dealership, what a nuisance headache. But when he showed up, he looks at me knowing that I like Toyota. And he says, how's this data point change your theory about Toyota?   0:07:06.5 AS: I thought he was gonna say, if it was me, I would've said pop in the back.   0:07:12.6 BB: And I was like, yeah, that really hurts. Well when I shared that story with students at Northwestern's Business School, the Kellogg Business School, their advice and these are students that had worked in all different industries from Coke to banking, and a number of 'em have worked in the auto industry. And their advice was, I said, Professor Bellows never buy anyone's first model year, even Toyota. Now I have a friend who he and his wife bought the same model year Toyota Sienna. They did not have a problem.  Oe did. When I met at a Deming conference, a guy who worked in Georgetown, Kentucky which is where the Sienna was made. And, so, I met him at a conference and when he said he worked for Toyota, I said, oh, my wife and I buy nothing but Toyotas. He says, oh. And I said, we have a first model...   0:08:08.6 BB: Year Sienna. And everything was good. And then I'm thinking, I'm gonna ask the guy a question. And I looked straight in his eyes. We were pretty close together. And I'm about to ask him a question. I'm looking straight in his eyes and I said, we got a Toyota Sienna. He says, how do you like it? And I looked right at him and I said, the transmission failed at 10,000 miles. And he rolled his eyes. And I said, so, you know about this. It wasn't a look of shock. It was, yeah, all right. So, I said, all right, all right. Your expression just told me that you know something about this. I said, what's up? He says, we tried. This is so cool. He says, we tried to save a few pennies on a bearing.   0:09:00.8 BB: I said, you did but what you did cost me more than you saved. So, yeah you guys saved a few pennies on a bearing and cost my wife weeks of aggravation to have it towed from where it happened to the place we were going because it Christmas Day, it broke. Everything's shut down on Christmas days. You can't have it right? And, so, we had it towed, had to get a rental car. Then they're complaining about, we had... Who authorized this rental car? We only pay... It was just headache after headache. But we still buy Toyota Andrew. We still buy Toyota. Why? Because I'm afraid to buy from anybody else. Well, part of the reason I wanted to share that with our audience is I buy Toyota products based on value. And I believe that the best value we get in transportation, personal transportation is the money we spend buying a Toyota most often brand new. We've also bought some used, got great use out of them, never had a problem, anything like what I just shared with you. And that's having owned five or six different Toyotas. I mean, right now in our family we have three of them.   0:10:16.7 AS: I think I need to correct you.   0:10:19.1 BB: Go ahead.   0:10:19.9 AS: You buy Toyotas on value and values.   0:10:25.7 BB: Yes!   0:10:28.2 AS: You're aligned with their values and therefore you're willing to look beyond the mistakes and problems that it comes with every product, every service, every company, because you're aligned with their values.   0:10:42.2 BB: Well, what's funny is when we bought the Sienna and we're talking with 'em, doing the driving and signed agree to buy it, that's the color we want. We want these seats, blah, blah, blah. And then you go talk to the closer and the closer's a guy, the gal at the dealership that wants to add on the undercoating and the this and the this and the this and the this. And he wanted to sell us at a premium price, this extended warranty and I dunno what it costs, but I said, I've done a whole lot of research. And he says to me it's so funny. He says, when these things break down, a circuit board breaks and that'll cost you this and this and this, and, so, I'm gonna sign you up for the insurance policy, the extra coverage. And I said, no, and he is going on and on. And I said, look it, I've done a lot of research into how they're made and I said, and the values of that organization. So, I said, the reason we buy Toyota is that I have an understanding, a pretty damn good understanding of how they manage the product, the pieces and how it all comes together. And he's pushing back at me. Finally, I said, I teach university courses on how Toyota operates and their quality system.   0:12:14.8 BB: So, we didn't get the extra coverage. Now it was still covered under warranty, so, it was kind of laughable that. But anyways, the reason I bring that up is that...   0:12:27.3 AS: Before you do that, I want to just say for the listeners and viewers out there, what is the messaging from a corporate strategy perspective? And that is have values that you stand for. Communicate those to the market, stay loyal to them and the customers who align with those values will stick with you through the hard times that you're gonna definitely have. There's a quote by Alexander Hamilton says, "those who stand for nothing, fall for everything." If you do not stand for a clear set of values that the market can perceive, then people are gonna fall away from you as soon as times get tough.   0:13:07.2 BB: Oh yeah. And I...I, I. It's about that and that's why I've read lots about Toyota. How they operate written by people outside of Toyota trying to explain it, people inside of Toyota and their explanations. But part of the reason I bring this up is my fascination, my interest in Dr. Deming's philosophy, is a great deal to do with his system is based on an incredible appreciation of the difference between acceptability and desirability. All other quality management systems, whether it's the quality management within Lean is acceptability based, good parts and bad parts, Operational Excellence, Six Sigma Quality. In fact, there's a quote at the end of chapter 10 in "The New Economics". And chapter 10 was the original last chapter until the third edition came out. In which case there's chapter 11 written in large part by Kelly Allen, a good friend.   0:14:15.1 BB: And when chapter 10 was the end I thought it was pretty cool that at the very end of chapter 10. The last few pages of chapter 10 of “The New Economics” are about Dr. Taguchi's loss function. And this is what turned me on to Dr. Taguchi, was finding “The New Economics" in a brick and mortar bookstore. I knew from ASQ Quality Progress that this was coming out. So, I remember when it came out, this was before Amazon, going to the bookstore. Going through it and saying what does this guy think about Taguchi? Because Taguchi was my, the one I really idolized. And I opened it up and I turned to chapter 10 and it's all about the loss function, the problem and I thought this is way cool. So, the closing quote... The closing... The last sentence in chapter 10 which again was the original last chapter until third edition came out, is the following "Conformance to specifications," that's acceptability, "zero defects," that's acceptability. "Six Sigma quality," which is acceptability "and all other specification-based nostrums all miss the point, ,stated by Donald J. Wheeler."   0:15:42.6 BB: So, then I looked up, but what is a nostrum? And Dr. Deming not Dr. Deming a nostrum is defined as “quack medicine.”  So, "Conformance to specifications, zero defect, Six Sigma quality, and all other specification-based nostrums all miss the point." And, so, I wrote an article about this, gosh, 20 years ago. I said, what's the point? And my explanation, the point is, all of them are about managing parts in isolation. Looking at things in isolation. Again that's acceptability. And as I said earlier, I'm not saying acceptability is bad, I'm just saying acceptability is not desirability. And the other thing I wanna add is, why do I... My wife and I love Toyota products. I've got reason to believe through a lot of research and talking, sharing the ideas that we talk about in these podcasts with people within Toyota. And they have a desirability focus that nobody else... That I'm not aware of anybody else has.   0:16:54.9 BB: And, that's having presented around the world doing classes, at Kellogg Business School, at university. Yeah, the Kellogg Business School Northwestern University. I teach online classes at Cal State Northridge, Southern Utah University. I've lectured at many universities. And I never had anyone come to me working in industry saying, Bill, what you're talking about, we practice where I work. No. And, so, for those that are pursuing the Toyota Production System stuff. My response is, I don't buy Toyota products because they use the Toyota Production System. Now, that may help with getting the car to market faster. But I don't believe the Toyota Production System is why people buy Toyota products. I believe Toyota's quality management system... At least I buy Toyotas because I believe their quality management system, inspired by Dr. Taguchi, inspired by Dr. Deming, is providing something that nobody else has in many industries. All right. So, I wanted to get that out.   0:18:06.7 AS: So, are you saying Toyota Production System is more of a tool that is in their toolbox of quality management system?   0:18:18.4 BB: Um, the Toyota Production System is classic Industrial Engineering.   0:18:26.8 AS: Right.   0:18:27.0 BB: It's how to...   0:18:28.3 AS: It's a natural.   0:18:30.5 BB: How to improve flow, how to improve throughput by minimizing number of steps, by minimizing inventory. It's highly credited to Taiichi Ohno, who was mentored by the founder of the Toyota Motor Company. And it's all about, they don't have a lot of money. So, we need minimal inventory, minimum steps. So, it's like... So, the Toyota Production System is an efficiency based system based on, we don't have a lot of money, we're not gonna buy a lot of inventory. But the quality aspect of the Toyota Production System everywhere, everything I've written, everything I've read by people describing the Toyota Production System it's all explained by acceptability. So, that they may be moving things closer together so people don't walk so far.   0:19:27.8 BB: But what I'm looking at with Dr. Deming's work inspired by Dr. Taguchi is what is it about the quality system that causes those parts to come together so well and the products to perform so well? So, it's not just having the parts when I reach out, the part is there, but those parts integrate better. I've mentioned in the first podcast series that Toyota had 100% snap-fit pickup truck in 1969 at a time when Ford was banging things together using rubber mallets to get the parts together. They took apart and assembled a Toyota pickup truck twice 'cause they didn't believe the results the first time the parts went together without mallets. That's what I'm talking about, that within that system, the ability for the parts to come together to work together cannot be explained by an acceptability based system. And, so, having spoken with people and having the opportunity to share with people within Toyota the ideas we talk about inspired by Dr. Deming, I've learned that they do desirability in a way that nobody... I'm not aware of anyone else having done.   0:20:48.5 BB: All right, so, what I want to get into, add to the discussion tonight, relative to category thinking, is this idea of category thinking, continuum thinking. Category thinking quite simply is putting things in categories. So, in acceptability we have two categories, good or bad, or maybe three categories. It's good or it's scrap or it's rework. So, category thinking is generically putting things into categories. And so, we could look at category... Categories could be... There could be two categories, three categories.   0:21:27.1 BB: It's been a while since I've gone to see a movie, but I believe they still have a rating system of PG, PG-13, R, R-17, maybe X. Those are categories. Fruits and vegetables. Those are two high level categories. Within each of those categories, we have types of, we have apples and oranges, and within them we have types of apples. That's all category thinking. You go into a supermarket and every aisle... There's the cereal aisle. That's a category. There's the canned goods, those are categories. Religions - talk about categories. So, every religion you look at is its own category. And, then within those categories they have subcategories. How about music? How many categories in music are there Andrew?   0:22:18.9 AS: Well, it gets all messed up on my iTunes where I'm like, that's not heavy metal. That's rock.   0:22:28.6 BB: Yeah. And then there's types of rock. In the beginning it was rock and roll, and then there's types of rock and roll.   0:22:34.0 AS: Progressive rock.   0:22:34.0 BB: Progressive rock. And then we have people... So, what category would we put... I think somebody asked Lucinda Williams, we're going to see her in a few weeks. So, what category? Well, she doesn't fit a category. So, that's category thinking. Category thinking is putting things in categories. We could say, where did you go to college? That's a category. These are USC grads, those are Cal State grads. And, part of the point I want to make is that we use category thinking all the time. Putting people in categories is what we do. Such as you and our daughter are Cal State graduates.   0:23:17.6 BB: And, so, what degrees do they have? Those are categories. So, I don't know what we would do if we couldn't put things in the categories. So, I don't think category, putting people in category is not a bad thing. Now, when you start to associate values with the categories, now we're getting into racism or sexism and then, okay. But this idea that putting people in categories is a bad thing, I'd say category thinking is our simple way of organizing everything around us and these little file cabinets. Now added to that is when you put four or five things into a category, then what you're implying is that they're all the same. And that gets into acceptability.   0:24:12.8 BB: So, if this is a good part, that's a good part. That's a bad part. That's a good part. So, all the good parts go into the good part category. Then we say, oh, these are all good. Then we get into the sense of, and they're interchangeable. Well, maybe not. And that has to do with what I call continuum thinking. All right, so before we get to continuum thinking, Andrew, remember the question. What do you call the person who graduates last in their class of medical school?   0:24:43.3 AS: I don't remember that.   0:24:45.2 BB: Okay, so take a wild guess, Andrew, putting the pressure on, what do you call the person that graduates last in his or her class in medical school?   0:24:55.7 AS: Surgeon general.   0:24:56.9 BB: What's cool is that's a question I've been able to ask all around the world. Now, depending on where I go, I can't talk about baseball because they don't understand baseball. Or depending on where I go, I can't say soccer or I have to say football. Then if I say football, I have to say, well, I mean your football, not American football. But what's neat about this question, what do you call the person that graduates last in their class in medical school, that's "doctor." That's also acceptability thinking. From the first in class to the last in class, they all met requirements. Andrew, you know what that is? Acceptability. So, category thinking is a form... Acceptability is a form of category thinking. All right. Now I'm gonna give you three numbers and I'm going to ask you which two of the three are closest to being the same. You ready?   0:25:58.0 AS: Yep.   0:26:01.7 BB: 5.001, 5.999 and 6.001.   0:26:11.1 AS: 5.999 and 6.001.   0:26:17.6 BB: Are close to being the same?   0:26:18.8 AS: Yeah.   0:26:20.2 S3: That's what most people think. Okay. But...   0:26:25.7 AS: One's a six and one's a five. That's a problem.   0:26:29.5 BB: All right. And, so, again, the numbers were 5.001, 5.999 and 6.001. And the question is, which two of the three are close to being the same? And, what most people will say is 5.999 and 6.001, which infers that what does same mean?   0:26:48.5 AS: The integers?   0:26:49.1 BB: If you answered.   0:26:49.9 AS: I looked at the integers at the end rather than the whole number at the beginning.   0:26:56.7 BB: But is it safe to say you chose those numbers by saying they were closest together?   0:27:01.6 AS: Correct. Yes.   0:27:03.2 BB: So, in your case you're saying, if I plot those numbers from zero to infinity. Then those two are really close together. That's one definition of same is proximity. But, same could also be, they begin with five, in which case the first two are close to being the same. 'cause they both begin with five or they're both less than six. Or, I could say 5.001 and 6.001, because they both end in .001. So, it turns out there's three answers to the question. But the answer of the last two and proximity is what category is what continuum thinking is about. On a continuum these two are closest together. All right.   0:27:51.2 AS: And I have to tell you, we're gonna be running out of time, so we gotta wrap this up.   0:27:55.4 BB: All right. So, when I asked you the question, what do you call the person who graduates last in their class of medical school? And you said doctor, that's category thinking. If you used... Well actually the thing is, if I ask, what do you call the person who graduates last in their class at the United States, US Army's Military Academy, known as West Point, one answer is Second Lieutenant. 'cause they're all Second Lieutenants. But West Point uses continuum thinking to define the very last person in their class. So, it's the last person in class is not called second lieutenant. The last person in the class is called goat, as in the animal.   0:28:43.2 BB: And a very famous goat at West Point, who from my reading, was very proud to have graduated last because there's... I think Mike Pompeo, who was Secretary of State under president Trump, was first in his class at West Point, first in his class. A very famous, I wanna be the last person in my graduating class at West Point was George Custer. You've heard of him?   0:29:14.3 AS: Yep.   0:29:15.5 BB: And, he was deliberately lazy, so he wanted to be the very last person in his class. But that's, but the idea is that category thinking says they're all Second Lieutenants, they're all doctors. Continuum thinking is when you say this is the first, this is the second, this is the third. And when you come up, when you start to order them and say, the last one is goat, that's looking at things on a continuum, which is continuum thinking. Well, given that most quality systems, including Boeing's Advanced Quality System, are based on category thinking and category thinking, you have good parts and bad parts. When I ask a question as I brought up in the podcast five. I said I go to audiences and ask, how much time do you spend discussing parts which are good, that arrive on time? And the answer is none. And I say, well why is that? 'Cause in that system they're focusing on taking things from bad to good. And then what? Stopping at good.   0:30:20.0 BB: Well, part of the thing I wanna get across in this episode is the reason we're stuck in that model of stopping at good is because the quality system is based on category thinking of bad and good. And in a world of good and bad, there is no better. In a world of short and tall, there is no taller. And, so, continuum thinking allows us to go beyond that. And, so, going back to Dr. Deming's quote, conformance requirements, which is category thinking, zero defect, Six Sigma quality, those are all category based systems, which means it's good parts and bad parts. But then I come back to how does a system which is based on good parts and bad parts deliver such incredible reliability in the products? And, I believe it's because they're using continuum thinking. Not... And again not continuum thinking everywhere, but I think they have very judiciously figured out where to use continuum thinking and that is their differentiator. In my admiration for Dr. Deming's System of Profound Knowledge is, I've not come across any other type of management theory, which has that level of fidelity to explain that. And, in order to practice continuum thinking, implement it, you have to work together.   0:31:43.9 AS: And I'm gonna wrap this up by... One of the revelations that I come upon when I listen to what you're saying is. That's also what makes Deming's teachings sometimes hard to grasp, because there is no clear category and there is no clear beginning and end. There is no certification and therefore it's just hard for us who are used to being in categories to grasp. And that's my conclusion what I draw from everything you've just said.   0:32:16.6 BB: Well and let me add to that, really appreciate you saying that. Let me add to that,much of what I was doing at Rocketdyne... When I began to appreciate that the reason I was focusing on solving problems, solving problems and the problems we didn't solve were the problems where the customer, NASA said, we're gonna take this work and take it to the company down the street because you guys can't make it happen.  And, that scared the hell out of me that we're gonna lose this work to competitors because... And when I looked at it, was why are we stuck?  And I looked at Dr. Deming's work, the reason we're stuck is we're... 'cause our quality system is based on good parts and bad parts. We're waiting for trouble to happen. And, so, but still what I found is, and when I started to focus on... I went from being 100% Taguchi to more about Dr. Deming's work and trying to come up with everyday examples to make Dr. Deming's work more accessible.   0:33:16.9 BB: So, in Dr. Deming's work, you're not gonna find category thinking, continuum thinking. So many of the concepts we talk about in this series, in the prior series are... I refer to them as InThinking Concepts, just trying to make it easier for people to begin to absorb the brilliance of Dr. Deming's work. Because, I think absent that, when he says quality, what kind of quality is he talking about? Acceptability quality, desirability quality. So, I'm with you, I think the work is brilliant. I'm just hoping through our conversations and these podcasts that we can make his work far more accessible.   0:33:56.4 AS: Yep. Well, I think we're doing that. And Bill, on behalf of everyone at The Deming Institute and the audience, I wanna thank you again for this discussion. For listeners, remember to go to deming.org to continue your journey. Of course, if you wanna keep in touch with Bill, just find him on LinkedIn. This is your host Andrew Stotz. And I'm gonna leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming. "People are entitled to joy in work."

In this episode Devin and Uriel talk about some of the improvements they made over the past week and the thinking behind each. Please join our patreo! https://patreon.com/IncrementalCI Please follow us on Instagram and share your improvements and tag us.www.instagram.com/incrementalci In this podcast we discuss concepts from Lean Manufacturing, the Toyota Production System, and general business management to improve our businesses. Thanks for listening! Please drop us a note with any and all feedback! If you have parts you need machined, reach out to Devin@lichenprecision.com and follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/lichen_mfg If you need CNCed Buckles, check out www.austeremfg.com and follow at on Instagram www.instagram.com/austere_manufacturing To reach out to the podcast directly please email fixsomethingtoday@gmail.com