Podcast appearances and mentions of jeff gothelf

“When we focus and create space for possibility, it's up to you to figure out what to do with it.” – Greg BennickToday's featured bestselling author is an international keynote speaker, nonprofit leader, film producer, and social theorist, Greg Bennick. Greg and I had a fun on a bun chat about his book, “Reclaim the Moment: Seven Strategies to Build a Better Now”, the value of defaulting to generosity, seizing unexpected opportunities, and more!Key Things You'll Learn:What inspired Greg to become a published author and secure a book deal with WileyWhy he had to audition for his own audiobookHow Greg's musical background shapes his core valuesThe leadership lesson that Greg learned from his mom that he still applies to his life todayWhy kindness is a strong strategy for creating lasting connections and achieving success in all aspects of lifeGreg's Site: https://www.gregbennick.com/Greg's Book: https://a.co/d/fmiiWD4Greg's TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZKJTAaPBIE&ab_channel=TEDxTalksThe opening track is titled, "Set Sail" by Sparks Dynamite. To listen to and download the full track, click the following link. https://planetastroproductions.bandcamp.com/track/set-sail-intro Please support today's podcast to keep this content coming! CashApp: $DomBrightmonDonate on PayPal: @DBrightmonBuy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dombrightmonGet Going North T-Shirts, Stickers, and More: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/dom-brightmonThe Going North Advancement Compass: https://a.co/d/bA9awotYou May Also Like…270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/260 – “Metamorphosis” with L. Farrah Furtado (@LisaAnneFurtado): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/260-metamorphosis-with-l-farrah-furtado-lisaannefurtado/288.5 (Host 2 Host Bonus) – “Choose the Right Mountain; Climb Faster!” with David Wood (@_playforreal): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/DavidWood2/Ep. 579 – “The Power to Speak Naked” with Tyler Foley (@DropTheMicSTF): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-579-the-power-to-speak-naked-with-tyler-foley-dropthemicstf/Ep. 438 – “Acoustic Leadership” with Rick Lozano, CSP (@rick_lozano): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-438-acoustic-leadership-with-rick-lozano-csp-rick_lozano/Ep. 920 – The Surprisingly Simple Art of Getting It Done with Sam Bennett (@realsambennett): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-920-the-surprisingly-simple-art-of-getting-it-done-with-sam-bennett-realsambennett/Ep. 884 – How to Go From Stuck to Unstoppable with Murielle Marie Ungricht: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-884-how-to-go-from-stuck-to-unstoppable-with-murielle-marie-ungricht/Ep. 510 - "Lights, Camera, Action" With Amy Scruggs (@amyscruggssd): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-510-lights-camera-action-with-amy-scruggs-amyscruggssd/Ep. 721 – “Rediscovering Permission to Play as an Adult” with Mike Montague (@PlayfulHumans): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-721-rediscovering-permission-to-play-as-an-adult-with-mike-montague-playfulhumans/Ep. 405 – “Leadership Lessons From The Pub” with Dr. Irvine Nugent (@irvinenugent): https://youtu.be/cSKZqsoXr_M?si=2n-jGzUd4KMaYEX7Ep. 932 – A Return to Radiance with Becca Powers: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-932-a-return-to-radiance-with-becca-powers/

From Intel's engineering labs to Silicon Valley's unicorns, OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) have transformed how tech companies translate vision into measurable outcomes. But what separates successful OKR implementations from failed experiments? And how can technology leaders avoid the common pitfalls that derail even well-intentioned rollouts? In this episode, we dive deep with leaders who've shaped OKR practices at some of tech's most influential companies. Our guests Josh Seiden, Holly Bielawa, and Deepika Yerragunta share battle-tested insights from their experiences at Intel, Amazon, Google, and beyond. The episode compiles the best segments around getting started on your OKR journey, de-risking and iterating your rollout, and our guests' tips on self-checking the health of your OKR implementation.  Whether you're launching your first OKR initiative or iterating on an existing framework, you'll learn practical strategies for cascading objectives across teams while maintaining strategic alignment. Our conversation includes war stories from the field, as well as intuitive insights on what actually works: fostering genuine collaboration, maintaining human centricity, and achieving the elusive balance between ambition and accountability.  Watch full episodes with Josh, Holly and Deepika here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL31JETR9AR0FGx2A9HQbq2e1Xywkqb6BQ     Inside the episode... Why OKRs are a powerful alternative to traditional goal-setting frameworks. How OKRs promote collaboration and alignment across all levels of an organization. Best practices for implementing OKRs: starting small, iterating, and setting clear priorities. Tips for integrating OKRs into your product teams using human-centered design principles. Differentiating between business OKRs and product OKRs to avoid organizational misalignment. How to set and measure strategic objectives with actionable, customer-centric key results. Lessons learned from failed and successful OKR implementations, including war stories from the field. The role of product operations in making data accessible for measuring OKR progress. Why tying OKRs to compensation or promotions can derail the intent of the framework.     Mentioned in this episode Measure What Matters by John Doerr Outcomes Over Outputs by Josh Seiden Escaping the Build Trap by Melissa Perri Continuous Discovery Habits by Teresa Torres Who Does What by When by by Jeff Gothelf, Josh Seiden User Story Mapping by Jeff Patton     Convergence Episodes featured  Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile Agile and Beyond Conference 2024: The Latest in A.I. Innovations and Product Development Strategies (features the interview with Holly Bielawa) Driving Cultural Change: PepsiCo's Deepika Yerragunta on Customer Obsession and Product Mindset Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.   Follow the Pod Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/convergence-podcast/ X: https://twitter.com/podconvergence Instagram: @podconvergence  

In this special holiday episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri curates the most impactful insights from 2024's top episodes. Featuring conversations with industry leaders including Steve Portigal on user research evolution, Quincy Hunte on decision-making at scale, Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden on OKRs, Kate Leto on leadership coaching, and Leah Tharin on product-led growth. This compilation episode showcases key learnings that shaped product thinking throughout the year, offering valuable perspectives on research, leadership, goal-setting, and growth strategies.

In this episode, our host Jim Ward sits down with Jeff Gothelf, author and expert on product development and organizational agility. They discuss the power of Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) as a framework for driving customer-centric growth.Key Takeaways:The importance of being truly customer-centric vs. just paying lip service to itHow OKRs can help organizations shift their focus to measuring and optimizing customer behaviorsTips for overcoming resistance to implementing OKRs, including starting with a pilot and proving the modelInsights on the cadence and communication needed for effective OKR managementConsiderations around using OKRs in the face of an urgent, existential crisisThe role of AI and automation in the future of OKRs and customer-focused goal settingGuest Bio:Jeff Gothelf is an author, speaker, and coach who helps organizations build better products and develop the cultures needed to support them. He is the co-author of the book "Who Does What: A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs."Resources Mentioned:Jeff Gothelf's website: jeffgothelf.com"Who Does What" book here!"Measure What Matters" by John Doerr

In this engaging episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli is joined by Jeff Gothelf, a globally recognized author, speaker, and coach known for his expertise in organizational agility, product design, and customer-centricity. Jeff is the co-author of the insightful book Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs. Drawing on decades of experience and collaboration with leading organizations, Jeff shares practical strategies to help leaders implement Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) in ways that drive meaningful outcomes.The conversation explores why OKRs, often misunderstood as just another goal-setting framework, are in fact a transformative tool for aligning teams, fostering collaboration, and focusing on outcomes that truly matter. Jeff delves into the critical difference between outputs and outcomes, highlighting how focusing on behavior changes in customers creates measurable impact. His practical advice is grounded in real-world examples, making this episode a must-listen for leaders seeking to elevate organizational performance.Jeff also shares actionable steps for starting small with OKRs, experimenting with pilot teams, and scaling successful initiatives across the organization. He provides a nuanced perspective on the common pitfalls that derail OKR adoption, including the temptation to prioritize outputs over outcomes and the misalignment of accountability. This candid discussion offers a roadmap for leaders to overcome these challenges and create a culture of agility and continuous learning.From balancing transparency with accountability to maintaining alignment with an organization's brand promise, this episode equips CEOs and senior executives with the tools and frameworks needed to navigate strategic change effectively. Whether you're familiar with OKRs or exploring them for the first time, Jeff's insights will challenge conventional thinking and inspire leaders to rethink their approach to goal-setting and customer success.Actionable TakeawaysYou'll learn why OKRs are more than just another framework—they're a mirror for your organization's ability to deliver on its brand promise.Hear how to differentiate between outputs (what you make) and outcomes (the changes you create) and why this shift is crucial for organizational success.Discover why starting small with OKR implementation—through pilot teams—leads to greater long-term success.Explore Jeff's perspective on the most common mistake leaders make with OKRs and how avoiding it can transform your team's performance.Learn the secret to transparency in goal-setting without sacrificing accountability or collaboration within teams.Find out how OKRs enable agility, empowering organizations to adapt quickly to change while staying customer-focused.Uncover the importance of clarity, starting with the 'why' behind transformations, and how it strengthens buy-in from teams.Hear Jeff's take on aligning OKRs with strategic priorities, even during moments of crisis or market disruption.Understand how OKRs differ from KPIs and how they serve as a bridge between strategy and execution.Connect with Jeff GothelfJeff Gothelf WebsiteJeff Gothelf LinkedIn Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs Connect with Mahan Tavakoli: Mahan Tavakoli Website Mahan Tavakoli on LinkedIn Partnering Leadership Website

How do you make your OKRs truly customer-centric? Our guest today is Jeff Gothelf, a coach, trainer, speaker, and author of five books. You'll learn how to identify and drive results, why cross-functional collaboration is important in determining OKRs, how to get started with OKRs, and more.Podcast feed: subscribe to https://feeds.simplecast.com/4MvgQ73R in your favorite podcast app, and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Podcasts.Show NotesWho Does What By How Much – Jeff's latest bookEpisode 137: Lean, Agile & Design Thinking with Jeff GothelfEpisode 273: Publishing Options for Design Books with Louis RosenfeldMeasure What Matters – a book by John Doerr2022 Cleveland Clinic OKRsGet a copy of Jeff's latest bookFollow Jeff of LinkedInVisit Jeff's websiteThis episode is brought to you by Wix Studio — the new web platform for agencies and enterprises. The magic of Wix Studio is its advanced design capabilities which makes website creation efficient and intuitive. Here are a few things you can do:Work in sync with your team on one canvasReuse templates, widgets and sections across sitesCreate a client kit for seamless handoversAnd leverage best-in-class SEO defaults across all your Wix sitesStep into Wix Studio to see more at wix.com/studioInterested in sponsoring an episode? Learn more here.Leave a ReviewReviews are hugely important because they help new people discover this podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave a review on iTunes. Here's how.

In this Pocket Sized Pep Talk, you'll learn:A working definition for OKR's.  The key to goal setting!  Why so many people end up working on the wrong things.How focusing around customer's needs enables clear guidance on what to work on.How teams work through the OKR-creation process.What key principles guide your OKR implementation.How OKRs give people the autonomy to learn their way forward — to ask and then answer key questions.What implications OKRs have for leadership, management, and culture?A few mentors that helped Jeff along the way.To learn more about this guest:GUEST EMAIL jeff@gothelf.comGUEST WEBSITE: jeffgothelf.comSOCIAL MEDIA: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gothelf/

Melissa Perri is the founder of Product Institute, author of Escaping the Build Trap, and host of the Product Thinking Podcast. She has worked with startups, Fortune 50 companies, and everything in between to help them build better products and level up their product teams. In our conversation, we discuss:• The history of the product owner role• The differences between product owners and product managers• How to transition from product owner to product manager• The evolution of and problems with the SAFe framework• How large non-tech companies can improve their product practices• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-owners-melissa-perri—Where to find Melissa Perri:• X: https://twitter.com/lissijean• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/• Website: https://melissaperri.com/• Product Institute: https://productinstitute.com/• Podcast: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Melissa's background(02:12) The rise of the product owner role(06:37) Understanding Agile and Scrum(08:27) Challenges in Agile transformations(10:41) The history of the product owner role(13:58) The Scrum Guide(15:43) Product owner responsibilities(21:01) Adopting Scrum in organizations(26:21) The origins and implementation of SAFe(35:20) Why Melissa doesn't recommend SAFe(40:33) Advice for implementing a digital transformation(49:12) An example of SAFe adoption(51:27) The value of experienced product leaders(56:53) Career paths for product owners(01:04:14) Transitioning from product owner to product manager(01:06:41) Be careful relying on certifications(01:11:43) Evaluating existing product owners(01:16:55) Final thoughts on Agile and product management—Referenced:• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X• Lean UX: https://leanuxnyc.co/• Scrum: https://www.scrum.org/• What is Extreme Programming? https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/xp/• Capital One: https://www.capitalone.com/• The Agile Manifesto: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/manifesto• Ken Schwaber on X: https://x.com/kschwaber• Jeff Sutherland on X: https://x.com/jeffsutherland• Kanban: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban• What is a kanban board?: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban/boards• Ron Jeffries's website: https://www.ronjeffries.com/• Jeff Patton on X: https://x.com/jeffpatton• The Scrum Guide: https://www.scrum.org/resources/scrum-guide• OpenSky: https://www.openskycc.com/• SAFe: https://scaledagileframework.com/• Dean Leffingwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanleffingwell/• Capital One scraps 1,100 tech positions: https://www.reuters.com/technology/capital-one-scraps-1100-tech-positions-source-2023-01-19/• Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty• Marty Cagan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/• Jeff Gothelf on X: https://x.com/jboogie• Shruti Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shruti-patel-32bb573a/• Product Thinking Podcast: Mastering Product Focus: Balancing Legacy and Innovation with Shruti Patel: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/9/25/episode-190-mastering-product-focus-balancing-legacy-and-innovation-with-shruti-patel• Melissa Douros on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissadouros/• Mind the Product: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/• Athenahealth: https://www.athenahealth.com/• McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

In this conversation, Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden discuss their journey in scaling their training business, focusing on the assumptions, risks, and testing methods they are employing. They share insights on the importance of community building, the challenges of filling workshops, and the balance between qualitative and quantitative success metrics. The discussion highlights the significance of cold outreach, learning from past experiments, and navigating uncertainty in entrepreneurship.

Aligning Business Goals with Customer Needs   Shep Hyken interviews Jeff Gothelf, author of Who Does What By How Much?: A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs. He talks about how aligning objectives and key results with customer needs can transform business success.  This episode of Amazing Business Radio with Shep Hyken answers the following questions and more:    What is an OKR?  How do customer-centric OKRs help teams focus on the right tasks?  Why is it important for businesses to align their objectives with customer-centric goals?  How does measuring customer behavior contribute to better customer satisfaction?  How can understanding customer patterns help prevent client defection?  Top Takeaways:    OKR is an acronym meaning Objectives and Key Results. They are a strategic framework for setting clear goals and measuring outcomes. By having clear goals and knowing what results are expected, everyone in the organization moves in the right direction. When these OKRs are focused on the customer, they help companies make decisions that make their customers happy and loyal to the brand.     Objectives are qualitative goals describing the end state you want your customers to experience. For example, you want to offer the best product or be the easiest to do business with. The key results are the quantitative measures of human behavior that tell us we've achieved that state. It answers: What will your customers do differently, and by how much?     Customer satisfaction is important, but understanding customer behaviors is crucial. Often, dissatisfied customers stop using the product. They show up less often. They spend less money. They stop telling their friends about it. If you can understand these patterns of your customer's behavior, you can proactively take action before it becomes a problem.    Determine which behaviors (trying out products, asking more questions, etc.) will deliver the results that your company is looking for. Then, create an environment, a system, a service, or a store that positively amplifies those behaviors for the customer.    Providing your team with the objectives and allowing them to figure out the best way to achieve them communicates that you trust your employees to use their skills to meet customer needs.     Not all strategies will work from the start. Organizations need to develop a culture of learning. It allows teams to learn from mistakes and objectively measure the success of an idea. Then, businesses can make informed adjustments and improve with each attempt.     Plus, Jeff explains why some employees end up working on the wrong tasks  and how organizations can avoid that. Tune in!  Quote:   "Customer centricity puts the customer at the center of all our decisions. Every time we make a decision, the critical question is—What impact do we think this will have on the customer? And, is that something that we want to do?"    About:    Jeff Gothelf is a business strategy and customer-centricity expert, speaker, and author. He is the co-author of Lean UX, Sense & Respond, and Who Does What By How Much?: A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs.    Shep Hyken is a customer service and experience expert, New York Times bestselling author, award-winning keynote speaker, and host of Amazing Business Radio.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Growthmates with Kate Syuma — Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I'm building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).In this episode, we chat with Randy, Head of Design at Notion. Join us as we explore Randy's incredible journey from crypto and coffee startups to becoming the Head of Design at Notion. He shares how he blends craftsmanship, simplicity, and user-centered design into Notion's core values. Randy also provides valuable insights into the balance of functionality and emotional design, his approach to building talent-dense teams, and how to foster creativity within high-performing groups.—Brought to you by Command.ai — a user-focused platform offering an alternative to traditional popups or chatbots. Their AI “Copilot” answers questions, performs actions, and simplifies complex tasks. Use “Nudges” to guide users with timely, relevant messages, all within a no-code platform. Perfect for Product, Support, and Marketing teams to positively influence user behavior while respecting their needs: —Key highlights from this episode

Summary In this episode, Andy talks with Jeff Gothelf about the importance of OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) as a customer-centric goal-setting framework. Based on insights from Jeff's book Who Does What By How Much?: A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs, they explore the challenges leaders face in ensuring their teams work on the right priorities, the misconceptions surrounding OKRs, and the significance of measuring outcomes and value. Jeff emphasizes the need for organizations to focus on customer needs and behavior changes rather than just task completion. The discussion also covers how to implement OKRs effectively, starting small, and the potential for using OKRs in personal goal setting. If you've ever wondered how you and your team could better drive real value for your organization and customers, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "The true measure of the value of the thing that you deliver to your customer is measuring outcomes—meaningful changes in their behavior." "The deliverable is variable. You've got some ideas, some hypotheses about what you might make, but the measure of success is not the development and deployment of that thing—it's the behavior change." "You know you've written a good key result when it literally spells out: 'who does what by how much,' which is the name of the book." "Everyone's got a customer. The true measure of value is measuring outcomes, meaningful changes in their behavior. And that's applicable in every scenario." "It's infinitely easier for someone to just tell you what to do. Honestly, it's easier for the person telling you what to do, and for a lot of folks, they're just like 'tell me what to do, and I'll do it.'" "By the time we decide what to work on to the time that it actually comes out in the market, a lot of that consumer demand has moved on or shifted." "One of the biggest challenges is getting folks to start questioning whether the work they're doing actually solves a real problem in a meaningful way." "The incentives for a lot of teams are to produce a thing, and then they get measured, rewarded, and promoted based on that. Rarely do we ask: did anyone need that thing?" "Make them successful, respect their time, solve real problems in meaningful ways, and make it a delight to use." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:39 Start Of Interview 01:49 Why Do People Work On The Wrong Stuff? 04:07 Why Is It Difficult To Get Alignment, Collaboration, And Strategy Focus? 05:10 How Do You Like To Introduce People To OKRs? 07:46 What Are Some Common Misconceptions About OKRs? 10:41 How Do You Define Value? 13:05 What Do You Mean By An Outcome? 17:36 How Do You Go About Starting An OKR System? 20:48 Can OKRs Work For Teams If The Overall Company Doesn't Use Them? 24:35 End Of Interview 24:55 Andy Comments After The Interview 28:07 Outtakes Learn More To learn more about this topic, check out these episodes: Episode 328, with Terry Schmidt about LogFrames. It's different from OKRs, but it's another way to strategically think through the work we're doing. Episode 127, with Rob-Jan de Jong. It's a strategy book that can help with delivering a vision for an organization or team. You can learn more about Jeff and his book at JeffGothelf.com. AI for Project Managers and Leaders With the constant stream of AI news, it's sometimes hard to grasp how these advancements can benefit us as project managers and leaders in our day-to-day work. That's why I developed our e-learning course: AI Made Simple: A Practical Guide to Using AI in Your Everyday Work. This self-guided course is designed for project managers and leaders aiming to harness AI's potential to enhance your work, streamline your workflow, and boost your productivity. Go to ai.i-leadonline.com to learn more and join us. The feedback from the program has been fantastic. Take this opportunity to unlock the potential of AI for your team and projects. Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Business Acumen Topics: Project Management, OKRs, Leadership, Customer-Centric, Goal Setting, Business Strategy, Outcomes, Value Measurement, Implementation, Personal Growth The following music was used for this episode: Music: Underground Shadows by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by Winnie the Moog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In unserer neuen Episode den UX und Usability Podcast nehmen wir euch mit auf eine Reise durch die Welt der User Experience. Wir plaudern über die 'Mensch und Computer' Konferenz mit unserem Vizepräsidenten Thomas Jackstädt und diskutieren darüber, ob agiles Arbeiten wirklich vorbei ist Wir haben in dieser Episode Jule Jensen zu Gast. Sie teilt ihren inspirierenden Weg vom Studium zur UX/UI-Designerin bei Governikus und gibt wertvolle Tipps für Berufseinsteiger*innen. Außerdem stellen wir euch das FigProxy-Plugin vor, das Figma mit echter Hardware verbindet, und beleuchten die Single Ease Question (SEQ). Eine Folge voller wertvoller Insights, Trends und Inspirationen – unbedingt reinhören! ZEITSTEMPEL [00:00:00] Begrüßung und Einleitung [00:00:29] Interview mit Thomas Jackstädt über die 'Mensch und Computer' Konferenz [00:07:11] Diskussion: Ist agiles Arbeiten vorbei? Insights von Jeff Gothelf [00:10:05] Infos zur Mitgliederversammlung der German UPA am 19. September [00:10:53] Update zum AI-Pin von Humane – Ein UX-Flop? [00:15:20] Karriere-Tipps von Ariana von Scherenburg für angehende UX-Designer [00:17:00] Ankündigung der Weiterbildungsmesse am 26. September [00:17:45] Deep Dive: Die Single Ease Question (SEQ) mit Jeff Sauro und Jim Lewis [00:20:38] Vorstellung des FigProxy Plugins – Figma trifft Hardware [00:21:35] Interview mit Jule Jensen über ihren Einstieg ins UX/UI Design [00:50:03] Kurzinterview mit Sabine Berghaus von Siemens über den Einstieg in die UX-Branche* [00:51:37] Abschluss und Verabschiedung Informationen zu den Gästen

SummaryJosh Seiden & Jeff Gothelf join Dominic Monkhouse to talk about one of his favourite growth tools - OKRs (Objectives and Key Results)The discussion dives deep into the world of OKRs, highlighting their critical role in goal-setting and driving organisational alignment. The guests introduce their latest book, Who Does What By How Much?, which offers a fresh, customer-focused take on OKRs. They stress the importance of shifting from output-driven goals to outcome-based objectives that are tightly aligned with customer needs and behaviours. A key theme of the conversation is the delicate balance between Business as Usual (BAU) activities and the implementation of OKRs. This episode explores how OKRs should not only complement existing operations but also help steer an organisation's strategy. They discuss the ideal timeframe for setting corporate OKRs, with an emphasis on quarterly check-ins and measurable key results that track progress throughout the year.The conversation also addresses practical challenges, such as fostering collaboration across teams and securing leadership buy-in, both of which are essential for successful OKR implementation. The speakers advise organisations to start small, gradually expand OKR adoption, and invest time and effort into their OKR process while still keeping an eye on BAU performance.In addition to their insights on OKRs, the guests share personal book recommendations and reflect on their own definitions of success, rounding out a rich discussion that not only offers practical advice but also broader perspectives on achieving meaningful outcomes in today's customer-driven world.TakeawaysOKRs should be customer-centric and focused on outcomes rather than outputs.Aligning goals with the needs and behaviours of customers leads to better products and services.Strategic goals should be set for a year, while tactical goals can be set on a quarterly or monthly basis.The conversation and alignment around OKRs should be a two-way process, involving input from all levels of the organisation.Flexibility and customisation are key in implementing OKRs, as each organisation's needs and context may vary. Set quarterly check-ins and key results that can be measured throughout the year.Prioritise customer-centric goals and focus on changing customer behaviour.Start small and gradually expand OKR implementation.Allocate time and effort to OKRs while maintaining business as usual metrics.Facilitate collaboration and foster leadership buy-in for successful OKR implementation.Continuously learn and acquire new skills to enhance personal and professional growth.Chapters03:13 The Power of Customer-Centric OKRs07:19 Balancing BAU and OKRs13:53 The Role of Strategy in OKR Implementation25:15 Setting the Timeframe for Corporate OKRs30:40 Setting Quarterly Check-ins and Measurable Key Results32:14 Prioritising Customer-Centric Goals for Changing Customer Behavior41:40 Challenges of Collaboration and the Role of Leadership Buy-in47:00 Starting Small and Gradually Expanding OKR Implementation49:16 Allocating Time and Effort to OKRs while Maintaining Business as Usual Metrics56:01 Continuous Learning and Personal Growth for Success

SEASON: 4 EPISODE: 16Episode Overview:Everyone in every industry and every role has customers. Your success depends on how efficiently you can solve your customers' problems, adapt as those problems change, and influence their behavior to drive the results you want. Objectives and Key Results, or OKRs, give you the framework to do that.However, adopting OKRs successfully is no easy feat. It requires changing the way you work, think about your work, and plan for the work you'll do in the future. So whether you're an OKR newcomer, or a pro needing a tune-up, my guest today will share his insights on how to put customers at the center, navigate uncertainty, and succeed with OKRs. Join me now for my conversation with author, speaker, and product innovation strategist, Josh Seiden.Guest Bio: Josh Seiden has worked with hundreds of organizations as an individual contributor, leader, founder, and consultant. As software designer–turned–coach, consultant, and speaker, he's helped organizations fuse strategy, become customer-centric, and utilize evidence-based decision-making to become more agile (with a lowercase “a”), make better products, and achieve greater success. Along with his co author Jeff Gothelf, he's written two previous books. Their new book is: Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs Resource Links:Website: Website: www.joshuaseiden.comProduct Link: https://www.joshuaseiden.com/booksInsight Gold Timestamps:01:16 Your latest book, Who Does What by How Much: A Practical Guide to Customer Centric OKRs01:45 OKR stands for Objectives and Key Results04:39 The most common misconception about OKRs 05:38 OKRs imply we're going to do something different07:18 As a leader, you've got responsibility for the whole company09:21 The challenge is that we lose track of who that customer is and what their point of view is10:52 The first step in OKR is….12:28 What are the factors that are success factors?13:19 We say OKRs are three things14:49 I work in HR, who's my customer?16:08 Who does what, by how much?20:50 They're a goal setting framework22:15 Innovation is the intersection of new capabilities and unmet customer needs24:08 We know leadership plays a crucial role in the success of the OKRs27:37 We don't necessarily know the answer beforehand28:24 It's asking the right question and measuring the right question29:45 I think there's an opportunity for us to have better conversations in the workplace32:38 Who's the target of my work? What are they trying to do? How can I help them do it? Connect Socially:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jseiden/Twitter: https://x.com/jseidenEmail: josh@seiden.coSponsors: Rainmaker LeadGen Platform Demo: https://bookme.michaelvickers.com/lite/rainmaker-leadgen-platform-demoRainmaker Digital Solutions:

BONUS: From Output to Outcome, The Customer-Focused OKRs with Jeff Gothelf In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into the world of OKRs with Jeff Gothelf, co-author of the newly released book, Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs. Jeff is a product management expert, author, and keynote speaker, renowned for his contributions to building better products and fostering innovation within organizations. In this episode, Jeff discusses the evolution of OKRs, their impact on teams and organizations, and how to adopt this framework effectively. The Motivation Behind the Book "We needed to change how companies approach goal-setting to focus on outcomes rather than outputs." Jeff shares the journey that led him and his co-author Josh Seiden to write this book. They began with Lean UX, a practical guide for designers that expanded into other company areas (see this podcast episode with Josh Seiden about that book). However, as they worked more with clients, they noticed a disconnect between the goals set by leadership and the methods used by teams to achieve those goals. This realization inspired them to tackle the challenges companies face with goal-setting, particularly with OKRs, which they observe, are widely used but often misapplied. The Shift from Output to Outcome "In a post-OKR world, success is measured by what customers do differently when we solve the problem the right way." Jeff explains the fundamental difference between traditional goal-setting methods and OKRs. Traditional methods focus on output—what gets produced. In contrast, OKRs emphasize outcomes, or how customer behavior changes as a result of solving a problem correctly. Jeff highlights the importance of this shift in mindset, especially in software-driven organizations where success isn't just about delivering a product but about making a meaningful impact on users. Overcoming the "Do the Thing" Mentality "Start by asking your boss, 'What do you expect our users to do differently?'" One of the challenges in implementing OKRs is moving teams away from a mentality focused on simply completing tasks. Jeff suggests starting conversations with leadership by discussing the impact and benefits of feature requests, shifting the focus from just doing the thing to achieving a specific outcome. He also advises starting with a pilot team to ease into this new way of working, emphasizing the need for customer-centric, outcome-based OKRs. Embracing Experiments Without Fear "We saved the organization money by invalidating assumptions—this is a success, not a failure." Jeff addresses the common fear teams have about experimenting and potentially failing. He shares examples from his work with teams who, after finding their hypotheses invalid, were initially afraid to communicate this to leadership. However, by reframing these experiments as cost-saving successes, Jeff shows how organizations can shift their perspective and embrace experimentation as a critical part of innovation. Structuring OKRs for Customer-Centricity "We reverse-engineer the problem and identify the human who cares about having that problem solved." Jeff delves into the importance of structuring OKRs around customer needs. He recommends starting by defining the problem teams are trying to solve and understanding the people who are affected by that problem. Encouraging teams to dig deeper into the actual human experiences they aim to improve ensures that the OKRs are not only business-focused but also enhance customer experiences and relationships. Redefining Roadmaps with OKRs "OKR-based roadmaps replace feature lists with behavior change hypotheses." For OKRs to work effectively, Jeff explains that organizations must also rethink their roadmaps. Traditional roadmaps often list features to be built, but with OKRs, the focus shifts to committing to specific outcomes and behavior changes rather than delivering features. This change requires a new approach to planning and prioritization, one that aligns with the goals set by OKRs. Starting the OKR Adoption Process "Adopt a cycle of OKRs, experiments, and goal-based roadmaps to ease the transition." Jeff provides practical advice for organizations looking to start using OKRs. He outlines a cycle that includes setting OKRs, conducting experiments, and adjusting roadmaps based on the learnings from those experiments. He also emphasizes the importance of clear communication from teams, including sharing what they've learned and how they've adjusted their course based on that knowledge. Jeff's approach is tested and proven, with much of the content first shared on his blog. The OKR Book To dive deeper into customer-centric OKRs, you can order Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs on Amazon. For additional resources and insights, visit OKR-BOOK.com and JeffGothelf.com. About Jeff Gothelf Jeff Gothelf is a product management expert, author, and keynote speaker known for his impactful work in building better products and fostering innovation cultures. He is the co-author of Lean UX and Sense & Respond, and advises executives and organizations on business agility, digital transformation, and human-centered design. Jeff's latest project is co-authoring Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs. You can link with Jeff Gothelf on LinkedIn and connect with Jeff Gothelf on Twitter.

Jeff Gothelf has worked with hundreds of organizations as an individual contributor, leader, founder, and consultant joins Enterprise Radio. He is the co-author of “Who … Read more The post Making Sure Everyone Organization-wide Works on the Right Stuff appeared first on Top Entrepreneurs Podcast | Enterprise Podcast Network.

Olá, pessoal! Mais uma das lives da nossa Semana do UX Decodificado. Neste evento especial, vamos bater um papo com Rafael Frota trazendo diversas referências e recomendações de livros para enriquecer ainda mais seu conhecimento em UX. "UX Decodificado" foi escrito para fornecer um guia completo e prático sobre UX, destinado a novos designers, profissionais em transição, gestores, desenvolvedores e inovadores. O objetivo é disseminar conhecimentos valiosos, promover uma cultura de design centrada no usuário e ajudar profissionais a aplicarem práticas de UX de forma eficaz em seus projetos e carreiras. Já comprou o nosso livro "UX Decodificado"? Se você é um designer em busca de aprimorar suas habilidades em UX, ou um profissional de outra área interessado em migrar para o design de experiência, este livro é para você. Adquira já o seu exemplar e leve sua carreira para o próximo nível! Edição Física (Site da brauer) Amazon Brasil: https://amzn.to/3Wv4zVb (Versão Digital em português) Amazon Espanha: Compre agora! (Versão Digital em português) Amazon UK: Compre Agora! (Versão Digital em português) Livros Recomendados "Don't Make Me Think" de Steve Krug https://amzn.to/4fxgTNF Um guia clássico para a usabilidade de websites e produtos digitais. "The Design of Everyday Things" de Don Norman https://amzn.to/3WMQXGp Uma leitura fundamental para entender os princípios do design centrado no usuário. "About Face: The Essentials of Interaction Design" de Alan Cooper, Robert Reimann, David Cronin e Christopher Noessel https://amzn.to/3WN7FoX Um manual completo sobre design de interação e usabilidade. "Lean UX: Applying Lean Principles to Improve User Experience" de Jeff Gothelf e Josh Seiden https://amzn.to/3A5PNgn Um guia prático para integrar UX e métodos Lean em projetos de design. "Seductive Interaction Design: Creating Playful, Fun, and Effective User Experiences" de Stephen Anderson https://amzn.to/46smPTT Foca em como criar designs que engajem e encantem os usuários. Profissionais Referência Don Norman Steve Krug Jeff Gothelf Alan Cooper Tem varios brasileiros citados no livro. Recomendo buscar. Alem claro dos que tem passado por aqui no bom dia ux e nesta semana. Sobre carreira: com ebooks Joe Natoli https://givegoodux.com/books/ Artiom Dashinsky https://dashinsky.com/ Álvaro Souza https://www.aprenderux.com.br/ Arquitetura de informacao Abbey covert e sua comunidade The Sensemakers Club https://www.thesensemakersclub.com/ Mercado, lideranca e metricas Jared Spool e a comunidade Leaders of Awesomeness Inerface, interacao e UI FeUX www.youtube.com/@feuxdesign Comunidades Jovens uxui Vagas ux https://vagasux.com.br/ Sites Recomendados para Aprender Sobre UX Nielsen Norman Group (NNG) nngroup.com Oferece uma vasta gama de artigos, relatórios e vídeos sobre pesquisa e prática de usabilidade e UX. É uma das fontes mais respeitadas no campo. Smashing Magazine smashingmagazine.com Publica artigos detalhados, tutoriais e recursos sobre design, desenvolvimento web, e UX. A List Apart alistapart.com Foca em padrões web, design e desenvolvimento, oferecendo artigos de alta qualidade sobre UX e UI. UX Design.cc uxdesign.cc Uma plataforma que reúne artigos, tutoriais, e links úteis sobre design de experiência do usuário. Interaction Design Foundation interaction-design.org Oferece cursos online, artigos e uma comunidade ativa para quem deseja aprender mais sobre UX. UX Matters uxmatters.com Publica artigos e colunas de especialistas em UX sobre uma ampla variedade de tópicos relacionados ao design de experiência do usuário. Usability.gov usability.gov Mantido pelo governo dos EUA, oferece recursos, guias e melhores práticas para criar interfaces centradas no usuário. Boxes and Arrows boxesandarrows.com Uma revista online que discute design de interação, arquitetura da informação e design centrado no usuário. UX Booth uxbooth.com Um blog colaborativo que cobre diversos aspectos do design de experiência do usuário. Medium – UX Collective uxdesign.cc Uma coleção de artigos escritos por profissionais de UX sobre tendências, práticas e estudos de caso. Esses livros, sites e profissionais são altamente recomendados para qualquer pessoa interessada em aprofundar seus conhecimentos em UX. Eles fornecem uma base sólida e insights valiosos que complementam os ensinamentos do livro "UX Decodificado". Adquira já o seu exemplar e leve sua carreira para o próximo nível! https://lnkd.in/dTU9S_Da

Bio Darren, as the European Managing Director of Cprime, spearheads transformation initiatives in EMEA, leveraging over two decades of experience in banking and IT leadership. As a SAFe Fellow and renowned author, he drives strategic growth by defining innovative go-to-market strategies and deepening client relationships. Darren is responsible for overseeing Cprime's consultancy services, implementing complex programs, and negotiating multi-million pound contracts, positioning the company as a leader in organisational efficiency and performance optimisation.    He co-authored the BCS Book “Agile Foundations – Principles Practices and Frameworks” and "SAFe Coaches Handbook". A contributor to the SAFe Reference Guide 4.5 and "The ART of avoiding a Train Wreck". Finally a reviewer of "Valuing Agile; the financial management of agile projects" and "Directing Agile Change”   Interview Highlights 01:30 Pandemic impacts 04:00 Cprime 08:00 Wooing clients 09:15 Using the right language 11:00 Doing your research 12:30 Mistakes leaders make 15:30 Changing mindsets 16:00 Ingredients for change 17:30 Reading for knowledge 26:00 Three thirds 28:30 Disruption 31:30 SAFe Coaches Handbook 37:50 SAFe frameworks 40:20 Enterprise strategy   Connecting   LinkedIn: Darren Wilmshurst on LinkedIn   Books & Resources -          Strategic Leadership: How to Think and Plan Strategically and Provide Direction, John Adair -          Tribal Unity Book, Em Campbell-Pretty, -          Drive, Daniel H. Pink -          SAFe® Coaches Handbook: Proven tips and techniques for launching and running SAFe® Teams, ARTs, and Portfolios in an Agile Enterprise, Darren Wilmshurst & Lindy Quick -          Agile Foundations: Principles, practices and frameworks, Peter Measey -          The ART of Avoiding a Train Wreck: Practical Tips and Tricks for Launching and Operating SAFe Agile Release Trains, Em Campbell-Pretty, Adrienne L. Wilson, Dean Leffingwell -          Industrial Devops: Build Better Systems Faster Dr. Johnson, Robin Yeman, Mik Kersten, Dean Leffingwell -          Radical Focus: Achieving Your Most Important Goals with Objectives and Key Results: Christina R Wodtke -          Who Does What By How Much | Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden (okr-book.com)   Episode Transcript Intro: Hello and welcome to the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. I'm Ula Ojiaku. On this podcast I speak with world-class leaders and doers about themselves and a variety of topics spanning Agile, Lean Innovation, Business, Leadership and much more – with actionable takeaways for you the listener. Ula Ojiaku It's a huge honour and privilege to have again with me as my guest on the Agile Innovation Leaders Podcast none other than Darren Wilmshurst, Managing Director at Cprime. Darren is an SPCT and a SAFe fellow. So for some context to the audience, Daz was one of the very first people I interviewed for the Agile Innovation Leaders Podcast and this was about five years ago or so, and I actually wanted to have a way of speaking with Daz, and I didn't know how to, so I said, hey, can I interview you for a podcast? And long story short, I ended up heading on a plane to Oman, but that's a different story. So, Daz, what have you been up to since then? Because when we recorded the first one, you were not yet a SAFe fellow, it was afterwards that you became a SAFe fellow and lots of other things must have happened. Darren Wilmshurst Well then the pandemic started, and I think that that changed life for all of us, most of our consultancy work stopped because it was discretionary spend, people were in retreat in terms of trying to buckle down and understand, try and reduce costs as much as possible. I think the biggest impact was then training, because obviously we couldn't do training in person. We weren't allowed by the certificating bodies to train online, so they had to give us permission to do that, which they did, and then we had to think about, well, how are we going to do this online? You know, what conference facilities are we going to use? What collaborative tools are we going to use? And how do we deliver this experience to make it still interactive and engaging? So I think that was a major challenge for us as well, and if I'm honest, whilst we're still doing stuff online, we're starting to see some training, at least moving back in person, but my preference is still in person because it's a different experience. The theatrics in me, the smell of the greasepaint and the roar of the crowd is still really important as well. So I think that's the first thing I think has changed is that we had that period where everything was remote, I think we're back into a world now where we're more hybrid, which I enjoy the in person stuff, but I think we'll probably never go back to pre-pandemic where everything was in person, both consulting and training. So I think that was the major change, I think for us as well. During that time as well, our major founder wanted to retire, so we sold Radtac to Cprime and that all happened during the early days of the pandemic as well. We had a number of suitors, about six suitors, we decided on Cprime for, for me, two critical reasons and this is quite important, I think as well. Number one is that Radtac felt like a really family firm. We had a set of values and principles, there's a DNA to Radtac and we wanted someone that matched our DNA, I think it was so important for us. We could have gone to some other organisations, but we might have ended up selling our soul to the devil in some respects. Cprime, acquired a company in the US called Blue Agility a few years earlier, almost similar size to Radtac, very similar what they did as well, and what was key for me was that all the people in Blue Agility were still in Cprime. In fact, two had left and come back, so that was a good sign to me that we were aligned in terms of values and principles. So that was number one. The second reason was that Radtac had a heritage of all this training, you know, we're back to 1998. We had all this good training, we'd build up the consulting part of our business, so we're really good in terms of training and consultancy, but we were very agnostic about tooling and technology, because we didn't have the capabilities, or the brand awareness around that part of our business, and it used to frustrate me because, we'd go in, we'd do a great job in terms of way of working, somebody else would go in and maybe do the tooling set up, configure it in a way that wasn't aligned, that wasn't working and that was frustrating. Now we could see opportunities to improve the continuous delivery pipeline, but we didn't have the capability to sort it out as well, whereas Cprime had all of that heritage. So for me, it completed that puzzle where now we can do the training, the consultancy, the tooling to visualise the work, configure the ways of working as well, and also really help with that continuous delivery pipeline as well. So that was the defining decision. We completed that acquisition in February 2021, so literally 12 months after the pandemic. Cprime was at the time owned by a French company called Alten, massive company, not well known, but massive company. Cprime probably wasn't really core to Alten, they were a project management engineering company and Alten sold Cprime January 2023 to Goldman Sachs and Everstone Capital, so that's been a change. So again, we've had the pandemic, we've gone through the acquisition, and now we're owned by a private equity as well, which brings different challenges to the organisation as well, and actually the reality was that after the acquisition, after the earn out, I was looking to maybe semi-retire, spending a bit more time in Spain, fishing and playing golf, but actually this next phase is really exciting, so a testament to Cprime and Goldman Sachs as well, that I want to be part of the next part of the journey as well. So, I'm still here Ula. Ula Ojiaku Well, I am glad you are, and it sounds like it's been a rollercoaster ride and a journey, but part of it is the thrills as well. Darren Wilmshurst Look, we're very privileged, aren't we Ula, because I work with great people, I say that genuinely. I work with great clients, I'm very fortunate in that. And although, you know, if I don't want to work with a client, I don't have to do that, but actually all the clients I work with, I really enjoy working with and I love the work that we do. So it's almost like the Holy Trinity, great people, great clients, great work. Why wouldn't I want to carry on doing what I do? So I always think that we're very privileged in what we do. So, I'm very grateful. Ula Ojiaku And I'll say that the little I've worked with you, what I know is you are a genuine person and you're a great person as well. I can't remember who this quote is attributed to, but people tend to be mirrors. So if you're good, people mirror what you show to them. And I'll say that based on my experience with you, I've learned a lot in terms of how to treat people, being genuine and caring genuinely about their welfare, not necessarily about what you get from them, and that's key. So, that's the sort of person you are, that's who you are. Darren Wilmshurst That's very kind. Ula Ojiaku I want say thank you for that, because there are times when I'm in situations and I'm thinking about maybe somebody or potential someone, colleague or clients, and I'll be like, what would Daz do? How would he probably think about this situation? Now, part of what you do as director involves also wooing, wooing and winning the client and the customer. So, what would you say are your go to principles when pitching, to communicate the value you could bring before an engagement and maybe later on, we can talk about during and after the engagements? Darren Wilmshurst Yeah, I'm still Officer of the company, so I'm still Director of Cprime, the UK entity and also the European entity, so I have some corporate responsibilities as well. I'm still a practicing consultant trainer, so I still have to earn my supper every night as well, and that's the bit that I really enjoy. I'm also responsible for developing the capability of our people, and the products or the value propositions that we take to market as well. So that's part of it, but you're right, I do get involved in what we'd probably call pre-sale as well, so pitching as well. And I think the one thing I think I've learned over the last two, maybe three years as well is, is that I'm very conscious of the language that I use. What do I mean by that? We see a lot of stuff on social media about ‘is Agile dead', stuff like that. It's not dead, but actually if I am talking to a client and I use the Agile word or the ‘A word' it can create an allergic reaction, it can trigger them and in the same way that, just talking about a framework, SAFe, as well that can create a same reaction as well. So for me, it's not about Agile, it's not about SAFe, it's about actually what are we trying to do? What is the problem? What are the challenges that you're having as an organisation? And how can we help you overcome those challenges and create value in what you do? Now, what we will do is we will use ways of working, Agile ways of working, lean ways of working, stuff like that to help them, but what I try and do is try and avoid the triggering word, because I've seen it so often where they, well, we've been in agile for ages, well have you? Or we tried agile, it didn't really work, or we spent millions of pounds on agile transformation and we haven't seen the benefit. So sometimes you have to be careful in terms of the context you're going to. So for me, stop talking about frameworks, stop talking about words that might trigger, talk about their problems and their challenges and how you can help them overcome it, and the value that you bring to their organisation to help them overcome that as well. And that's really key for me as well. Ula Ojiaku That suggests to me that there would be some sort of background work to at least understand who you are pitching to, understand what their experience had been in the past, to know what those trigger words are. Is that something you could share about? Darren Wilmshurst It's an interesting question, because I interview a lot of people to want to come and join our organisation, and the first thing I say to them, can you tell me what you know about Cprime? And if they haven't done the research, it's like, so you've come on here, you want a job at this organisation and you have no idea who we are, and what we've done, and that just really frustrates me. So in return, if I was going on to talk to a client, then of course I'm going to try and understand what they do - what's your core business, there's lots of information on their website. If they're publicly listed, then go get their annual accounts because again, that would talk very much about their last training year and some of their issues as well. Having said all of that, we're still seeing the same problems and the same challenges across all organisations, regardless of the industry they're in. Every organisation, we have more demand than we have capacity. Fact. Everyone has that. We don't know how to prioritise our work. We need to reduce our costs, particularly now. That's becoming more prevalent now, certainly in this last six months than previously as well. Our time to market is too slow. Our ability to turn our ideas into actions needs to be faster. So they're the common problems we're seeing is again, too much demand, not knowing how to prioritise, reduce our costs, and we need to be able to be more adaptive and bring our ideas to the market or to fruition quicker as well. Ula Ojiaku What would you then say are the common mistakes leaders spearheading a transformation make? Darren Wilmshurst Yeah, it's interesting because again, a lot of the work that we're doing now, if we think about the Law of Diffusion of Innovation, and that's a product life cycle as well. If I take that model and apply it to organisations and their adoption, let's call it ‘of modern ways of working' rather than agile, I think we're probably in that late majority. Those large legacy, traditional organisations that maybe even tried the agile transformation years ago, but still haven't mastered it or conquered it, and I'm talking about large banks still, telecoms, pharmaceuticals, automotive, and I really fret for the automotive industry, not just here, but in Europe and across America as well, their time to market from design to launch can be anywhere between five and seven years, and yet the Chinese are doing it in two. Ula Ojiaku Could it be, because you've mentioned financial services, telecoms, pharmaceuticals, and the common thread is that they tend to be highly regulated. So could that be one of the reasons? Darren Wilmshurst I don't think it's regulation. I think they're just such large organisations, the hierarchy within that organisation, is huge, so this is why I come back to the leadership piece as well. Actually, and what happens is the leaders are too far away, they're not connected enough to the organisation systemic changes that they need to make in that organisation to make that organisation more effective. And they need to wake up and smell the coffee because Chinese are coming, they're coming in terms of automotive, they're coming in terms of pharma. True story, my daughter went to university a few years back. She'd been with HSBC for donkey's years as a student, a youth account, and she said, I'm going to university, can I upgrade my account to a university account? And the response from HSBC was yes, you can, but you need to make an appointment, and the next appointment is in six weeks time. And so my son, who's a bit older, he said, just get Monzo or Revolt, just go online, and if they don't wake up, they will just find that the whole generation will go ‘I will not wait'. Now, she waited six weeks, she did it, but a lot of them won't do that, so I think it's a real threat and I think the organisations are so big that, just trying to get into that leadership space so that we can start to work with them to help understand what they need to do. So back to your original question, I think there's three things, and this is hard. We need to move that leadership from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset. They will be of a generation age of mine, so now they would have been schooled back in the eighties and nineties in ways of working, and they will have seen those ways of working as being successful because that allowed them to progress to the senior positions that they're in now, so I understand that, but those ways of working are not appropriate for the complex, adaptive, changing organisations that we now need to be in.We need to get them to move from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset, and that's easier said than done. However, I was inspired, this was one of the most senior guys in the government organisation and he was having lunch with the CEO of HSBC Bank and they're talking about change, and they agreed that there were three core ingredients to change organisations. Number one, a transformed approach to partnerships, and he said the language is really important here as well. Again, I didn't call them suppliers, I call them partners. If we call them suppliers, they will behave as suppliers. The reality is that we call them partners, because we don't have the capability or the capacity, but sometimes when we bring them in, third parties, we treat them as an alien organisation. They wear different badges. They have different privileges. They can't do this, they can't go here, they have to be accompanied, things like that. So he said, we need, a transformed approach to partners. We need to bring them in, they need to be part of our ecosystem, number one. Secondly, he said an agile approach to problem solving, giving power and capability to those closer to the issue, and we talk a lot about decentralised decision making as well. Now, you need to know those that have the information need to make the decision in a timely manner as well. But this is the one that really, really got me. Most importantly, a learning culture, including their leadership, where those with the most influence must do as much or more learning than anybody else. Now that's unusual, because normally, I'm a senior person, I've got to where I am because I know a lot of information, and I wouldn't be where I am, but we need to understand that that information was schooled in a different generation. So what we can't do, we can't say to you, well, okay, you need to come on one of my training events, they say, seriously, you've not read my badge, I'm an important person, I have not got time to go on a two day training event, and we need to recognise that as well, these are senior executives, and their time is precious, and trying to find two days in a diary is difficult, so we need to, I think, as agents of change for organisations, and to bring leadership on the journey in order to move them from a fixed to a growth mindset, not to put them on a two day training event, but find a way of educating them in a in a smaller, bitesize way, almost like a series of small, interactive workshops that happen over a series of weeks, that sort of stuff as well, and we need to make sure that the content tackles their problems and their challenges, and we mustn't get into too much of our, again, the words that might trigger them as well. So that's the first thing. So we need them to understand that they need to go on an educational journey, but we need to find an educational journey that will meet their needs in terms of content and their time. Number one. Once we do that, then they need to lead by example, and it's all very well educating them. One of my colleagues was saying, would I go on a plane with a pilot that's read a book? No, they need to be able to practice their skill and hone their skills. Now that might be difficult, again, because their team members, their employees might be well schooled in this and they might feel uncomfortable practicing a craft that they're not that familiar with as well. So what we try and do is get them to practice in a safe environment, i.e. let's work as an agile team, as a leadership team, as a leadership group. Let's think about having a backlog of work that we need to do as a leadership team. Let's think about how we prioritise that work. Let's work in a small group and then review that work on a cadence and then just retrospective and maybe have someone that steps up and be a Scrum Master or Product Owner for that as well. So again, getting them to operate and start to learn by experiencing within their own environment is a great way, because if we can do that, now they're educated, and they practice their craft in a safe environment, they are better empowered to lead the change. This is what we need to do, and this is what I'm finding is that we need the leadership to step up and lead the change, because if we're going to make fundamental changes to organisations, systemic changes, organisational changes, the leaders need to be able to do that as well. And this is what I find – it's great having teams working at a great way, but without that support from leadership, the impact that they will be able to make will be limited. Ula Ojiaku Yes, I resonate with the last statement you made about the limitation to the impact teams can have if the leadership isn't bought in and if they are not walking the talk. It's not like, go ye and be agile whilst we still do what we've always done. There was something you said about moving from fixed mindset to growth mindset and the need for the leaders to have that continuous learning as in really that continuous learning culture is that they need to learn as much, if not much more than other employees, and that reminds me of this book by John Adair, Strategic Leadership, and in his book, he was saying that the origin of the word strategy comes from the military, and typically people who rise to the ranks are people who have been there, done that. And if people have the confidence that you know the stuff and you've been there, done that, if not better than everyone else, you'd have more respect you'd have more buy in, it's less friction getting the troops and kind of corralling the troops towards that vision. Darren Wilmshurst Yeah, it's interesting because again, at school, I was definitely not a reader. I was into numbers, I was a maths person. I went to university, did a maths degree, stuff like that as well. So I was one of those kids at primary school where I'd be given a book at the beginning of the week, and at the end of the week, I'd hand it back to my teacher and she would say to me, have you read the book, Darren? I go, yes, I have. I hadn't actually read the book. She'd give me another book and I'd move up the ladders that you did back in the day. Never read. It's interesting now, I read now more than I've ever read in the past. And I think what happened was it almost became a bit of a bug. I think going on the SPCT program, there were certain books that you had to read, but the more I read, the more I wanted to learn. So I think that got me into that habit as well. Secondly, I think that if I'm teaching this stuff, then I need to understand the provenance of what I'm teaching as well, and I can't do that without reading. So again, you can't be leader, a strategy leader without having been there and done it. So for me, reading is really important to understand some of the provenance of what we're doing and also giving some of the narrative as well. Ula Ojiaku So what would you say changed? Although you've just painted a picture of you before, back in school, and after, what's changed? Darren Wilmshurst I don't know I think I just started reading, it's a bit sad really, because I go on holiday and then I take business books with me and then I'm sitting around the pool reading these books and people say what are you reading, and I'm reading this book thinking that's a bit sad. And I remember one holiday I was sat in on a lilo in a pool reading a business book and my daughter took a picture of me saying dad what are you doing, you're on a holiday and there you are reading Tribal Unity by Em Campbell-Pretty on holiday as well. I don't know, I think when I started this, I wouldn't say it was an addiction, but it was like now i need to learn more now, I need to learn more and more, and so once you started then you don't stop and I'm still an avid reader Ula Ojiaku It reminds me of this book by what you've just said, Daniel Pink's book Drive. So for me, it sounds like the intrinsic motivation, you knew what you stood to gain by doing it and you didn't need to have your teacher asking you, did you read it and you'd say yes when you didn't, but you knew there was something at stake if you didn't. Darren Wilmshurst Yes, I think it was definitely the SPCT program I had to read, but then once I learned stuff, I wanted to learn more stuff, and so you're right, that intrinsic motivation, you know, I think in the video they talk about, people want to play the piano or guitar and just want to get better at it. I just wanted to really become better as an SPCT and then eventually as a fellow just to understand the wonderful thought leadership that has occurred over the last 20 and 30 years that has informed the way that we think and act and work now. Ula Ojiaku Wow. You've kind of nailed it, because Daniel Pink's book says mastery, autonomy, and purpose. So, the mastery bits, but going back to the original question, and thank you for sharing your experience, there is this saying that you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink. So, we could have the edict where, okay, all the leaders can make space for those bite-sized workshops or sessions, but once that ends, is there a way we could encourage them to keep at it, because a two day training or maybe six workshop sessions spread over six months probably wouldn't cut it, or wouldn't be sustainable. So is there something or any tips on how to tap into that intrinsic motivation? Darren Wilmshurst I think Dean Leffingwell said to me, he talked about the third, the third and the third, and I'll talk about that as well, he said, in an organisation, there'll be a third of people that get it and want to do it. He said, there'll be a third that I would call my sceptics, not sure, need to be convinced, and there's the third that say, no, I'm very happy with the way I'm looking at it, I don't want to do anything else as well. He said, I don't care about the first third. He said, I actually I care about the second third, those sceptics, if I can convince one of them to lead the charge, he said, that's great because then the others then will come along as well, and if I can get that sceptic to change in terms of, I understand it, I want it, they're almost like  a reformed smoker, they become the greatest advocates of change because they say, I get it now. And he said, now I've got two thirds, now I've got a majority, he said, and that's the tipping point that allows me to make that change as well. And what happens is, he said, there are some in that final third will go, okay, I've seen enough social proof that I will make that change, I need you to convince me, I'll do that as well, he said, but there'll be some that go, I'm not happy with that, and they are the people that will either ride off into the sunset with either retirement or a different career or different organisation as well. So you've got to find someone in that leadership group that's going to be an advocate. You've got to find that one or two that are happy to lead the charge as well, and someone in the sceptic face is great because they become the reformed smoker as well, but you've got to find it and hope that they will then corral and cajole some of the leadership into doing this as well, but without that it's hard, even though the leadership understand the challenges, sometimes they're just reluctant to make that change, and I find that difficult to understand and sometimes quite frustrating as well, because, for me, there are some iconic British brands that I still worry about going forward as well. You know, we've just seen it recently, Body Shop, an iconic brand, again, just lost their way. I mean, retail is just so hard at the moment, with the stuff online, but we'll see it with automotive as well, we'll see it in some other industries as well, where if we don't wake up and smell that coffee, then I do fear for some real British brands. Ula Ojiaku I don't think it's only British brands, I think it's a global phenomenon and the fact is the olden perception of having different sectors or industries is being blurred. So think about brands like Apple. Now they started off building computers, but really they've cut across multiple industries, so before the watch industry, you think about Swiss-made watches with the mechanical things, but the Apple watch, they have this music streaming industry, and one of the things in the strategy course I did from the Cambridge Business School is this, they said, it's really about developing a platform. So if you have a platform where you can get your customers to depend on, it's easy to branch into multiple industries. So Apple, they make watches and their watches serve as healthcare monitoring devices and different other things, there are rumours they're building their own self-driving cars and everything is on that iOS platform, which allows them to branch into anything, they could go into pharmaceuticals, medical. So it's no longer about traditional sectors or segments, and the disruption in life is real and no sector, no country is spared, so it's really about moving from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset and saying, what are the things we're missing, and how can we think differently? How can we reposition ourselves? How do we build a platform that has a fort? Darren Wilmshurst Yeah, I think you're right. Apple has disrupted so many industries, in terms of, you know, who buys a torch anymore, who buys a map anymore, other things as well, I just go on. I think at the last count, there was like 24 different industries disrupted as well, and I think about Jeffrey Moore, who I remember presenting with on stage in Washington, I think that was 2019. And he said, what you can do, as an organisation, you can sit here and wait to be disrupted, and hopefully that you can be a fast follower, providing you're nimble enough and adaptive enough, you might be able to make that change. He said, but what might be better is, rather than we wait to be disrupted, be the disruptor. My worry is that some of these large legacy organisations, they are being disrupted, and I just fear that they are not nimble and active enough to be able to respond, they're so ingrained in the way they have done things for the last 10, 20, 30, 40 years that I just fear for them and you're right, it's not UK, obviously I care about the UK because I'm a UK citizen, but I think it's a global phenomenon. I know my colleagues in North America and their industries are having the same challenges as well, right. It's not just a UK issue, it's definitely a global issue. Ula Ojiaku I'd really like to just touch on your latest book, the SAFe Coaches Handbook. So before we go into some of the contents, could you share what led to your co-authoring this with Lindy Quick? Darren Wilmshurst So it's one of those itches I had to scratch, I suppose is the phrase that you use. I was a very small author of the BCS book called Agile Foundations. Peter Measey was a lead author and there were a number of smaller authors that contributed to that as well, and then I ended up reviewing two books. So again, a recognised review of a couple of books, Agile books as well, one around Agile financial management, one around Agile governance as well, the Em Campbell-Pretty, a fellow SAFe fellow wrote The ART of Avoiding a Train Wreck, which I reviewed and contributed to, so again, I was contributing to that as well, and actually Em's updating that book because that book's five years old as well, so I'm reviewing that as well. And having reviewed a few books, contributed to a few books, being a part author, I suppose I wanted to write my own book. I think that was it as well. That was part of it. The other part was that I've delivered a number of Implementing SAFe courses since 2017, and for me, it's not just about delivering the education, for me doing that course is about, what are the tips and tricks, what's the stories, what's the narrative, how's the best way to do this, and all those things that I deliver in that course that goes way beyond the slideware what I wanted to do was capture all of that stuff that I deliver in those courses in a book. So I got approached by some publishers at Packt, saying, would you fancy being an author, write a SAFe book? And I thought, yes, I would. Then, we've got another author that's also interested in doing it as well. I'd never met Lindy before, we met and, yeah, we wrote the book. We started October 2022, and it got published June last year. It took a bit longer than we thought, but again, I learned in terms of task switching and refactoring, trying to write a chapter during a working day when you've got meetings and stuff like that and messages coming in, couldn't do that, because in the end I needed that concentrated effort to write. I can't do it with interruptions. So task switching was not great for me, so in the end I said, right, if I'm going to do it, everything has to go off, I just have to concentrate on this as well. So writing the chapter was really straightforward, it didn't take that long in reality. What I found was though, the cost of refactoring took a lot longer, as we talk about as well, you know, doing it right first time, doing the rework is a lot harder, and both Lindy and I wanted to make the book as best we probably can. So I reviewed her chapters, she reviewed mine, her reviews were great. Again, we have some other reviewers as well that are listed in the book as well, and all those reviewers really contributed to making the book better, but having to incorporate and refactor the chapter took me longer than writing the chapter in the first place. So it ended up taking a bit longer than we thought as well. So two valuable lessons. Task switching is real and refactoring takes longer than doing it right the first time as well. Ula Ojiaku So with this realisation, would you do anything differently in terms of how you approached writing the book? Darren Wilmshurst I don't think so. We were pretty good because again, we'd write a chapter and we'd get it reviewed, and the chapters are not particularly long, so that was pretty okay as well, and then what we found there, even though we had a high level design of the book and the chapters and the content, as we went through there as well, we realised there was some stuff missing as well, so again, there was no concluding chapter, there was no preface, we realised that we split the chapter into part one, part two, part three, part one was all about the team stuff, part two is all about the art level stuff, and part three was all about the portfolio stuff. Ula Ojiaku Well it sounds to me like you were following the agile principles, breaking it in small chunks, getting the review, and to be honest, having spoken with other authors that you started, writing in October 2022 and got published in June 2023, that was speedy, maybe not by your standards, that was fast. Typically it takes them like three, five years, and it's just them writing the book with everything else going on. Darren Wilmshurst Yeah, I don't think I could cope with that. I think it's great that the publisher had quite a forcing function, if it dragged on that long, I think you lose that motivation and I was on a roll and when you're on a roll, you want to get it done and dusted. Ula Ojiaku And I think the key thing, and what I noticed is, like you said, that the chapters are kind of not too long and easily digestible and it's easy to write, but it's about refining it in such a way that is to the point and, packed with lots of invaluable insights, that's an art and it does take time to refine from just having a mass of words to something that's simple. Darren Wilmshurst We didn't want to make it a reference guide, the framework is the reference. You go on the website, that's the reference guide. I suppose our target audience was SPCs that are newly qualified, if you're thinking about training this, here's some tips and tricks, here's some narrative, here's some stories you can use here's some support, and some of the things that we have made mistakes and learnt from as well. So it really is trying to be a practical guide to newly minted SPCs in terms of those that want to be able to train or implement a scaling framework. Ula Ojiaku It's definitely something I wish I had after I'd attended your training. So in the preface, you and Lindy were saying you can't implement SAFe to the letter you don't implement it like a rulebook, it's something you implement with your brain switched on and I was like, yes. Can you expand on that please? Darren Wilmshurst I get very frustrated. You see it on social media about SAFe is bureaucratic, it's a prescription, it's overly governed, stuff like that as well, and it's a framework, not prescription. For me, it's a wonderful toolbox, and every organisation we go into is different. They're not the same. They have different project and product, different risk profiles and budgets to plug different people, to create different things. So how can you have something that is an ABC guide, a recipe book, it can't be that as well. So I always say that if I'm putting a picture on a wall, I'll use a hammer and a nail. I won't use a chainsaw, but a chainsaw in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. So for me, it's a framework. So there are some fundaments in there, but you have to understand the context, you have to understand the appetite for change and how much disruption you want to bring, because if you bring too much disruption, you could end up traumatising the organisation. We don't want to do that as well. So, but, and then you think about, okay, what would be the most appropriate tools that I need to bring to change the organisation as well? And then I remember Dean saying this word that then, if you implement SAFe, or the appropriate tools out of the framework as well, and you're doing the same thing a year later, you're doing it wrong because you're not inspecting adapting about how you could then improve on that, and the way that the framework has improved since 1.0 back in 2011 to 6.0 last year as well, is through practitioners and organisations implementing SAFe, finding new ways, and experimenting with new ways and things as well, and bringing that back to the party and that being part of the evolution of the framework as well. And that includes myself, again, this is myself as a fellow, is part of it is bringing my thoughts in terms of what I've done with organisations back to the framework as well. So for me, it's a framework, not a prescription. In terms of scaling, there's some fundaments in there, there are always some fundaments as well, but you have to implement it with your brain switched on and every time I've implemented it, all the validation has always been different, with some underlying principles that support me in that ways of working. Ula Ojiaku Thanks for that, Daz. And there is a chapter in your book on enterprise strategy, which I think is interesting, but I have a question for you, which one would come first, enterprise strategy, or the adoption of skilled at being SAFe, which one comes first and why? Darren Wilmshurst Look, you've got to have a strategy. One of the things we say as SPCs and even probably SPCTs to some extent, we're not strategy experts. The framework is not there to talk about how you create strategy. There is some guidance on what we expect to see in a strategy but as we go into an organisation, we expect there to be some sort of strategy in place. If not, then we'd highly recommend that a strategy is created, and there are great organisations out there that can help organisations create that strategy as well, because we need to know what's the strategy of the organisation, and then from that, we can then think about how then we align what we're doing to deliver that strategy, and then when we talk about alignment and scaling the organisation, that is right from the top of the portfolio, through to maybe the teams of teams and the team as well. So that strategy and that works to a point where a person at the team level can understand how the work they're doing is connected all the way back up in delivering that strategy as well. So we need that strategy in place. Ula Ojiaku Definitely. I agree, and there are some SPCs who have that training and background in strategy, so it helps if that's there. Darren Wilmshurst Yeah. Yeah. Again, as an SPC, if you've got that, that's great. It's just that SAFe as a framework, that's not what we're looking to, but we expect it to be in place. Ula Ojiaku Exactly. So what are the key things then, in terms of the enterprise strategy and making sure that the teams are aligned with the strategy, what are some things when you  are consulting with the leadership and saying, okay, giving them the guidelines of what the framework is saying, what are some key pointers for them to look out for and to be mindful in how they make sure the strategies align with the adoption and the rollout of the framework or the sustained implementation of SAFe? Darren Wilmshurst I hear a lot from execs that we have no idea what our team are doing, we have no visibility, we have no transparency what they're doing, so I think there's a couple of things that we need to talk about here as well. We need to make sure that the work that the teams are doing is visible in a way that is consumable by the executives as well. So we need to create the right dashboard. We go into organisations and the number of tool chains that exist in organisations that are not connected, there is no one version of the truth as well, is disconcerting. In a world where we're trying to reduce costs as well, the money spent on licensing stuff like that is phenomenal. So I think for me, having the right tool set that allows that work to be visible from the team all the way up to executive is really important, and so we need to make that work visible, but then also the leadership needs to come to the party as well. I think it's a two way thing, so we can make the work visible, but part of it is that one, we start doing our reviews of the work that we're doing, either a team level or at a team of teams level or at a large solution level, we need to be able to make sure that the leadership are involved in those reviews, and also in terms of prioritising and directing the direction of travel for the next cadence of work as well. I think that that's important. Ula Ojiaku Well said, Daz, I couldn't say it any better than you, you're the expert here. Dare I say that it's also important that the leadership would make the strategy visible to the organisation and in a way that can be consumed at the appropriate layers. So, this for this time frame, this is what we are trying to achieve, and that would help, so it's kind of almost like a virtuous cycle and complimentary, they are making their priorities visible and well in advance, whilst the team also work to make their work visible. Darren Wilmshurst You're right. It's bi-directional, isn't it, and we see it so often where a firm will go and create a strategy and then it's locked away in a drawer, no one ever sees it, and that strategy is a direction of travel. So then we think about, okay, what do we need to do to deliver that strategy, but you've got to make that visible and you need the support of the leaders, next leaders down to almost decompose that work into smaller chunks that that can be delivered, that then deliver that strategy as well. But you're right, we need to make sure that that strategy is communicated, again, in a way that inspires the people in the organisation. That's important as well, because you want to be, again, once you're inspired by the organisation and the work that you're doing, and you understand the work you're doing is connected to that strategy, I mean, how motivating is that? Ula Ojiaku Thanks for that, Daz. So in addition to your fantastic book, SAFe Coaches Handbook, which I would highly recommend to RTEs, coaches, business owners, what other books have you found yourself recently recommending to people? Darren Wilmshurst So the one that I'm really quite passionate about at the moment, we talked at the beginning about that agile and SAFe can create allergic reactions, become trigger words as well, and increasingly, I'm working in organisations that, and Agile is a small part of what we do, Agile ways of working, yeah, it's important, but it's a small part. When you think about, if we're working with automotive, lean manufacturing, something I call cyber physical DevOps as well, we have cyber physical machines building cyber physical products as well. How do we automate more of that as well? And then there's the whole thing around system thinking and all that stuff as well. So, two of my colleagues from the SAFe world, Suzette Johnson and Robin Yeman, have written a book called Industrial DevOps, and that for me is gold dust. I like the rebranding, it's about industrial DevOps, so it's how do we take all our learning from lean manufacturing, Agile ways of working, cyberphysical DevOps, and bring it together to help those big organisations be more effective. So if I was to recommend one book at the moment, how do we build better, complex, industrial systems faster, then Industrial DevOps, Dr. Suzette Johnson and Robin Yeman, for me, is the book. Ula Ojiaku Thank you for that. Any other book? Darren Wilmshurst There's a lot of people talking about OKRs, objectives and key results, and on CVs people saying I'm an OKR consultant. I think, okay, well, okay, well that's great, but it's almost like they're saying OKRs, if we go in and implement OKRs, it is the panacea, it will solve all your ills. Look, it's just, it's another tool in the toolbox as well. One I read last year was Radical Focus, really good, talks about yes, it's great creating OKRs, but there's so much more to that than just creating the OKRs. People think if I create the OKRs, then the world would change, no, it doesn't. Ula Ojiaku Oh, wow. Thank you for that, and I guess I agree, OKRs is a is a tool, and it's really a great tool for connecting strategy with the implementation, and back to what you said about the transparency of strategy and the work of the teams OKR is a good way of actually helping with measuring, okay, is the work we're doing moving the needle for the enterprise and vice versa. How do we as the leadership team clearly communicate in a digestible way what our priorities are, what the strategy is over a time frame. So, yeah. Another one on that note I would recommend would be, well it's in the pre-release, but Jeff Gothelf, actually he and his co-author Josh Seiden have gone to do what you've just done with the SAFe Coaches Handbook, which is, okay, yes, there's all this buzzword about OKRs, but actually, what does it mean in practical terms, Who Does What By How Much: A Practical Guide to Customer- Centric OKRs, it's highly recommended. Just like yourself, I respect Jeff and the sense it's practical and actionable. And any final words for the audience? Darren Wilmshurst Well I think it's tough at the moment, we're seeing a lot of the big organisations, big SIs, laying off a lot of people as well, we're seeing a lot of the consultancy work is discretionary spend, and I think we're seeing a lot of people in the market that have not been engaged, but what I would say is that all these things are cyclical. We've seen it before where, certainly with the pandemic, no one was for six months, things stopped, but then the thing came back a vengeance as well, but if we focus on trying to solve the organisational challenges, if we focus on making sure that we are helping them solve those challenges, and we can demonstrate the value of what we're doing, then we'll be in a good place. Ula Ojiaku Thank you for those wise words Daz. And on that note, where can the audience find you if they want to get in touch with you? Darren Wilmshurst Darren Wilmshurst on LinkedIn is the easiest way to find it, always reach out to me on there as well, message me on LinkedIn as well. Normally what I do is I ask people to convert to email because I'm a bit old fashioned, email is my inbox is my to do list as well, so yeah, Darren Wilmshurst on LinkedIn. I think I've got a profile picture up there, so if you see this picture here, hopefully my profile picture looks something like this, what you're seeing here as well. Ula Ojiaku And if you're listening to the audio version only, the picture on the podcast art cover for this episode, that's the Daz you should be looking for. Well, thank you so much Daz for your time. It's always a great honour and I always learn a lot whenever I speak with you. So thank you for making the time for today's conversation. My pleasure. That's all we have for now. Thanks for listening. If you liked this show, do subscribe at www.agileinnovationleaders.com or your favourite podcast provider. Also share with friends and do leave a review on iTunes. This would help others find this show. I'd also love to hear from you, so please drop me an email at ula@agileinnovationleaders.com Take care and God bless!     

This week, I chat with Jeff Gothelf about applying Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) to personal goals. We explore the differences between business and personal OKRs, how to measure success, and strategies for avoiding common pitfalls in goal-setting. The post 87. Taking OKRs Beyond Business with Jeff Gothelf appeared first on Beyond UX Design.

This week, I chat with Jeff Gothelf about applying Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) to personal goals. We explore the differences between business and personal OKRs, how to measure success, and strategies for avoiding common pitfalls in goal-setting. The post 87. Taking OKRs Beyond Business with Jeff Gothelf appeared first on Beyond UX Design.

Come join Share PLM for another podcast episode with Andrea Järvrén, the Transformation Manager, Methods and Practices in Tetra Pak. Andrea has a strong background in business transformation and global process driver roles with focus on problem solving with an iterative approach. She specialises in facilitation with Design Thinking mindset, Design Sprints and tailored workshops in an enterprise setting, doing everything from facilitating, distributing competence, transforming and scaling to accelerating transformation. In this episode, we are talking about:⚉ Introduction to Design Thinking at Tetra Pak⚉ Practical Applications of Design Thinking⚉ Design Sprint Methodology⚉ Facilitation and Preparation⚉ Measuring Effectiveness⚉ Adapting to Remote Work⚉ Scaling Design Thinking PracticesMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:⚉ [Book] Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days by Jake Knapp - https://amzn.to/4c3ih84 ⚉ [Book] Lean UX: Applying Lean Principles to Improve User Experience by Josh Seiden and Jeff Gothelf - https://amzn.to/3KAMmzX ⚉ [Book] Business Model Generation: A Handbook for Visionaries, Game Changers, and Challengers (The Strategyzer series) by Alexander Osterwalder and Yves Pigneur - https://amzn.to/4c9QHWR ⚉ Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works by A.G. Lafley and Roger L. Martin⚉ AJ&Smart - https://www.ajsmart.com/ ⚉ Lightning Decision Jam (LDJ) - https://www.workshopper.com/lightning-decision-jam CONNECT WITH ANDREA:Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrea-j%C3%A4rvr%C3%A9n-56a1433/ CONNECT WITH SHARE PLM:Website: https://shareplm.com/ Join us every month to listen to fascinating interviews, where we cover a wide array of topics, from actionable tips, to personal experiences, to strategies that you can implement into your PLM strategy.If you have an interesting story to share and want to join the conversation, contact us and let's chat. We can't wait to hear from you!

Tu peux soutenir sur le podcast sur KissKissBankBank ou en mettant 5⭐️ sur Apple Podcasts ou Spotify !Mélanie est Staff UX Designer chez leboncoin.Elle découvre le design en s'amusant à faire des montages sur Photofiltre avec sa meilleure amie. A la fin de son lycée, elle décide de s'orienter dans des études d'arts appliquées à l'école e-artsup. A ce moment, elle souhaite faire de l'animation. Mais elle se rend compte que ce n'est pas fait pour elle et qu'il n'y a peut être pas assez de débouchés dans ce secteur. Lorsqu'elle arrive en premier année de master, son école ouvre un cursus dans le design interactif, qu'elle rejoint. En parallèle, elle fait un cursus en partenariat avec HEC et Epitech : c'est à ce moment qu'elle apprend à travailler en relation avec des développeurs et des personnes en charge du business.En parallèle, Mélanie réalise des stages et une alternance en agences de communication. Pour elle, c'est le seul débouché possible pour faire du design. Malgré le fait de vouloir travailler dans l'interaction à tout prix…Malgré ça, en sortant d'école, Mélanie part travailler pour une agence de communication. Malheureusement, l'agence ferme au bout de 6 mois et Mélanie devient freelance, dans une nouvelle agence, qui lui promet un contrat qui ne viendra jamais…… Au même moment, on lui propose de rejoindre leboncoin. Après une période de réflexion, elle décide de rejoindre l'entreprise, qu'elle n'a plus quittée depuis son arrivée, il y a 8 ans.A son arrivée, l'entreprise à 3 équipes plateformes indépendantes : site internet, iOS et Android. Mélanie travaille en tant qu'UI Designer pour cette dernière. C'est là qu'elle monte en compétence sur l'interactivité mobile, mais aussi sur l'UX Designer et la recherche utilisateur.En un après son arrivée, Mélanie devient UX/UI Designer. Mais surtout, l'organisation du Bon Coin change totalement : les équipes ne sont plus organisées par plateforme, mais en squad découpée en partie de l'expérience. Mélanie revient sur cette période dans l'entreprise et sur la façon dont l'entreprise s'est réorganisée pour être plus efficace et véloce. Alors que l'entreprise se réorganise, l'équipe design en profite pour évangéliser autour de ses méthodologies. Cette évangélisation permet à l'équipe de grossir et à faire comprendre sa valeur à l'entièreté des collaborateurs.Au même moment, Mélanie travaille sur l'ajout du paiement sécurisé dans Le Bon Coin. Elle revient sur la genèse de projet et de la façon dont elle a mené le projet : du recueil du besoin business à la matérialisation dans l'app, en passant par la recherche utilisateur. Elle parle aussi le relation nécessaire entre le marketing et le design lors de la création d'un nouveau produit.A la sortie de cette fonctionnalité, Mélanie change de rôle et d'équipe. Elle devient Lead UX Designer dans l'équipe Search & Discovery. Elle devient au passage manager de 2 UX Designers. Néanmoins, ce dernier rôle ne lui convient pas, car Mélanie souhaite toujours faire de la production, rester contributrice individuelle.Elle réussi à concilier les deux, pendant 4 ans, avant d'arrêter le management et de devenir Staff UX Designer. Elle se concentre alors sur la production, mais également l'établissement d'une vision et d'une stratégie long terme du design dans sa squad et dans l'entreprise.Enfin, on parle de l'équipe design du Bon Coin qui est passé de 25 designers à 120, comment l'information circule au sein de l'équipe et comment se passe la collaboration au sein de l'équipe. Les ressources de l'épisodeleboncoinLean UX, Jeff Gothelf & Josh SeidenMozza BitesCultural Map, Erin MayerThe Making of Manager, Julie ZuhoPour contacter MélanieLinkedIn

In this episode of Beltway Broadcast, your Metro DC Chapter of ATD hosts Jeff Gothelf. Jeff helps organizations build better products and executives build the cultures that build better products. He is the co-author of Sense and Respond, Lean UX and Lean vs Agile vs Design Thinking. His most recent book is called Forever Employable: How to stop looking for work and let your next job find you. In this episode, Jeff discusses what Lean UX is and shares how training professionals can leverage it to focus on learner experience rather than deliverables.  If you'd like to learn more about Jeff, visit his website. Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are solely those of the individual speakers and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views and opinions of the Metro DC Chapter of ATD, hosts, or sponsors. For more info about the Metro DC Chapter of ATD, visit DCATD.org.  Episode Credits: Series Announcer: Julie Waters Hosts: Christina Eanes, Stephanie Hubka, and Halyna Hodges

"Contemplative thought is the key to solving really hard problems, and you cannot rush that." – John RossmanToday's international bestselling author is keynote speaker, leadership development coach, business transformation advisor, a former Amazon leader, and Managing Partner at Rossman Partners, John Rossman. John and I had a fun on a bun chat about his book, “Big Bet Leadership: Your Transformation Playbook for Winning in the Hyper-Digital Era”, why everyone needs unproductive productive time, his experience at Amazon, and tons more!! Key Things You'll Learn:The concept of writing a future press releaseThe 3 critical habits for big bet successWhy organizations have trouble maintaining velocityWhy books play an essential role in improving your thinking and accelerating your development John's Site: https://johnrossman.com/John's Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B015X2OGGS/allbooks The opening track is titled "Kareru R Daichi Q-MIX" by Rukunetsu AKA Project R (@Rukunetsu). Use the following link to hear the full track and support his craft. https://on.soundcloud.com/62w8XPlease support today's podcast to keep this content coming! CashApp: $DomBrightmonDonate on PayPal: @DBrightmonBuy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dombrightmonGet Going North T-Shirts, Stickers, and More: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/dom-brightmon You Might Also Like… 47 - "Black Belt Wealth" with Damion Lupo (@damionlupo): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/47-black-belt-wealth-with-damion-lupo-damionlupo/ Ep. 327 – “The Go-Giver Way of Elite Performance” with Bob Burg (@BobBurg): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-327-the-go-giver-way-of-elite-performance-with-bob-burg-bobburg/ Ep. 509 - "Exit Rich" With Michelle Seiler Tucker (@MSeilerTucker): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-509-exit-rich-with-michelle-seiler-tucker-mseilertucker/ Ep. 493 – “The Three R's of Business Growth” with Edwin Dearborn (@edwindearborn): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-493-the-three-rs-of-business-growth-with-edwin-dearborn-edwindearborn/ 261.5 (Host 2 Host Special) – “The Outsourcing Playbook” with Kris Ward (@krisward): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/2615-host-2-host-special-the-outsourcing-playbook-with-kris-ward-krisward/ 179 - "Indistractable" with Nir Eyal (@nireyal): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/179-indistractable-with-nir-eyal-nireyal/ Ep. 322.5 (H2H Special) – “Burnout Proof” with Michael Levitt (@bfastleadership): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3225-h2h-special-burnout-proof-with-michael-levitt-bfastleadership/ Ep. 438 – “Acoustic Leadership” with Rick Lozano, CSP (@rick_lozano): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-438-acoustic-leadership-with-rick-lozano-csp-rick_lozano/ 270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/ Ep. 373.5 – “Business Secrets for Walking on Water” with Frank Zaccari (@FZaccari): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3735-business-secrets-for-walking-on-water-with-frank-zaccari-fzaccari/ Ep. 356 – “The Relentless Pursuit of Greatness” with Thomas R. Williams (@MrTRWilliams): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-356-the-relentless-pursuit-of-greatness-with-thomas-r-williams-mrtrwilliams/ Ep. 348 – “Bring Inner Greatness Out” with Dr. Mansur Hasib, CISSP, PMP, CPHIMS (@mhasib): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-348-bring-inner-greatness-out-with-dr-mansur-hasib-cissp-pmp-cphims-mhasib/ Ep. 336.5 (H2H Special) – “Own Your Career Own Your Life” with Andy Storch (@AndyStorch): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3365-h2h-special-own-your-career-own-your-life-with-andy-storch-andystorch/ Ep. 435 – “Breaking the Code” with Rusty Gailliard (@RustyGaillard): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-435-breaking-the-code-with-rusty-gailliard-rustygaillard/

In this episode of Product thinking, Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden join Melissa Perri to talk about their exciting new book on OKRs (Objectives and Key Results). They tackle common mistakes made when implementing frameworks like Lean UX, and how OKRs can solve this. Plus they share all the insights they've learned over the last 10 years since their first book, Lean UX. Tune in to discover how OKRs improve your business, business unit, or team's overall focus and alignment.

Is ego the silent assassin in your team's success story? Tag a friend who needs to hear this conversation!In this blistering episode of the Arguing Agile Podcast, Enterprise Agility Coach Om Patel and Product Manager Brian Orlando crack open the Pandora's box of ego in the workplace and its devastating impact on team dynamics, product development, and overall success.A big thank you to Jeff Gothelf whose recent article titled: "Ego Killed the Empowered Product Team" served as the inspiration and backdrop for this episode.Read the Article:https://jeffgothelf.com/blog/ego-killed-the-empowered-product-team/0:00 Topic: Ego Killed the Empowered Product Team0:15 Ego and Experience2:09 Start with Why5:22 Reading the Intro6:13 Humility: The Oxygen for Empowerment7:46 Ego as a Glass Ceiling11:59 Challenging Ideas15:03 Ego in Strategy and Sales17:09 Collaborative Strategy and Vision21:50 Ego, but also Bad Systems24:53 The Tony Roberts Band27:03 Soften the Executive Ego29:04 Process Change: Product Impact32:21 Learning from Evidence34:52 Finishing the Article35:46 The Unmovable Object39:05 Customer Involvement40:53 Think About YOUR Ego43:08 Wrap-Up= = = = = = = = = = = =Watch it on YouTubePlease Subscribe to our YouTube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@arguingagile= = = = = = = = = = = =Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/agile-podcast/id1568557596Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/362QvYORmtZRKAeTAE57v3Amazon Music:https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ee3506fc-38f2-46d1-a301-79681c55ed82/Agile-Podcast= = = = = = = = = = = = 

Podcast Description: Welcome back to the "Future of UX" podcast with your host, Patricia Reiners. In this episode, we're joined by the prolific Jeff Gothelf, author of the influential book "Lean UX" and many others. Jeff is not just an author but a fountain of knowledge, channeling his expertise through workshops, consultancy, newsletters, and a strong presence on LinkedIn. Today, our conversation revolves around the pivotal concept of OKRs (Objectives and Key Results). As UX designers, understanding the strategic positioning through goals and key performance indicators of products is essential. OKRs define the success of a product from its inception, and in this enlightening episode, Jeff and Patricia delve deep into what makes an effective OKR statement, its advantages, and the urgent need to transform our approach to goal setting and success measurement. What You'll Learn: The fundamentals of OKRs and their significance in product success. Crafting a compelling objective statement. Discovering and articulating powerful key results. A glimpse into the anatomy of a good OKR statement. The necessity to evolve our methods of goal setting and evaluating success. Key Learnings: The Art of OKRs: Learn the intricacies of writing good objective statements and how to pinpoint impactful key results. Balancing Act: Understand how OKRs aid in harmonizing business goals with user needs without compromising on user empathy. UX Designers & OKRs: Grasp the importance of UX designers in the OKR writing process and how they can influence it for a user-centric approach. Challenges & Benefits: Jeff shares the top benefits of implementing OKRs and the hurdles one might face during its adoption.

We meet keynote speaker, trainer and coach Jeff Gothelf, and speak about how Jeff helps build collaborative cultures and adopt modern ways of working in organisations. Jeff tells us about his background in design, particularly the intersection of design and agile methodologies. He shares his experience in creating and popularising Lean UX, a process outlined in his book with Josh Seiden. The conversation delves into the challenges of selling and explaining user experience to businesses that didn't initially understand its value. Jeff emphasizes the importance of translating design work into language that business leaders care about, focusing on the impact on solving business problems. The discussion also touches on the evolution of user experience in tech and software businesses during a pivotal time. Jeff addresses the challenges in implementing Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) within organisations. He highlights the need for a qualitative approach to objectives and the importance of key results being metrics that measure human behaviour. The conversation provides insights into the foundations of UX and the current hurdles in fostering a deep understanding of OKRs within organisations. An interesting one to record and an interesting listen for sure. Enjoy! https://www.linkedin.com/in/gothelf 

Welcome back to the Learning Culture Podcast!This week's Learning Nugget comes from a conversation with Jeff Gothelf. This is a memorable snippet that captures the importance of storytelling as an essential leadership trait.Jeff is the co-creator of the methodology for Lean UX, and he's the author of the award-winning book of the same name (among many others). His work has informed the way thousands of companies approach software and product design.Our conversation revolved around his book, Forever Employable, which chronicles Jeff's transition from employee → agency owner → independent operator. Jeff applied his storytelling skills at every step of his journey toward thought leadership and the lessons from our conversation show how we can do the same. Sit back, relax, and enjoy this Learning Nugget with Jeff Gothelf.Jeff LinkedInAndrew LinkedIn

"Your podcast is a recipe, it's not a statue. You can change it later." – Dave JacksonToday's featured author is keynote speaker, corporate trainer, podcast consultant, and Hall of Fame Podcast Host, Dave Jackson. Dave and I have a fun chat about his book, “Profit from Your Podcast: Proven Strategies to Turn Listeners into a Livelihood”, rebounding from obstacles to generate success, and more!!! Key Things You'll Learn:How Dave got into podcasting and turned it into a livelihoodThe test that podcasters need to pass when naming their showWhy podcast hosts should do both interviews and solo episodesWhat setback set Dave up for successThe process behind publishing his latest book Dave's Site: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/Dave's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Profit-Your-Podcast-Strategies-Livelihood/dp/1621537722Dave's Podcast, “School of Podcasting - Plan, Launch, Grow and Montize Your Podcast”: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/school-of-podcasting-plan-launch-grow-and-montize/id83653087?uo=4 The opening track is titled “I Feel It” by Bosnow from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/bosnow/i-feel-itLicense code: OLUCPMP4LR8AQ2XC Please support today's podcast to keep this content coming! CashApp: $DomBrightmonDonate on PayPal: @DBrightmonBuy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dombrightmonGet Going North T-Shirts, Stickers, and More: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/dom-brightmon You May Also Like… 270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/ Ep. 387 – “How to Demolish Imposter Syndrome & Create an Online Course” with Mark Kumar (@mark2kumar): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-387-how-to/ Ep. 333 – “How to Grow Your Social Media Influence” with Catherine Saykaly-Stevens (@CatherineNetWeb): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-333-how-to-grow-your-social-media-influence-with-catherine-saykaly-stevens-catherinenetweb/ 185 - "Ultralearning" with Scott H. Young (@ScottHYoung): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/185-ultralearning-with-scott-h-young-scotthyoung/ Ep. 384 – “Steal Your Skills From Corporate” with Katrina Roddy (@KRoddy65): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-384-steal-your/ 155 - "Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business" with Laura Pennington Briggs (@sixfigurewriter): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/155-start-your-own-freelance-writing-business-with-laura-pennington-briggs-sixfigurewriter/ Ep. 682 – “Leadership Begins with Motivation” with Dr. Danny Brassell (@DannyBrassell): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-682-leadership-begins-with-motivation-with-dr-danny-brassell-dannybrassell/ Ep. 412 – “Why Boomer, Xer, Millennial and Gen Z Labels Need Reimagined” with Dr. Rick Chromey (@MyGenTech2020): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-412-why-boomer-xer-millennial-and-gen-z-labels-need-reimagined-with-dr-rick-chromey-mygentech2020/ Ep. 348 – “Bring Inner Greatness Out” with Dr. Mansur Hasib, CISSP, PMP, CPHIMS (@mhasib): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-348-bring-inner-greatness-out-with-dr-mansur-hasib-cissp-pmp-cphims-mhasib/ Ep. 602 – “How to Unlock Your Creative Potential” with Robin Landa (@rlanda): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-602-how-to-unlock-your-creative-potential-with-robin-landa-rlanda/ 288.5 (Host 2 Host Bonus) – “Choose the Right Mountain; Climb Faster!” with David Wood (@_playforreal): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/DavidWood2/ Ep. 689 – “There Are (No) Stupid Questions . . . in Science” with Leah Elson (@gnarlybygnature): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-689-there-are-no-stupid-questions-in-science-with-leah-elson-gnarlybygnature/ 168 - "Spiral" with Amy Simpkins (@amylsimpkins): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/168-spiral-with-amy-simpkins-amylsimpkins/ Ep. 671 – “The Last Ark” with Guy Morris (@guymorrisbooks): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-671-the-last-ark-with-guy-morris-guymorrisbooks/

I am delighted to be joined by Joshua Seiden on the Leadership Tales Podcast today. Joshua is a Speaker and Author whose work around design thinking has inspired me greatly. His books and how thinking has shifted my views radically on how I run my business over the last 12 months. He has authored four books, three of which were collaborations with prominent UX thought leader Jeff Gothelf. In this episode, we discuss the importance of focusing on outcomes, as well as his thoughts on philosophies such as lean, agile, and design thinking. Joshua also shares a bit about his fascinating career and how leaving his ego at the door allowed him to see things more clearly.Tune in now to hear the brand new episode!Links Mentioned:Joshua Seiden on LinkedInJoshua Seiden Website“Outcomes over Output” Book

Peter Ord, the CEO and creator of GUIDEcx, leads the team behind this innovative platform. GUIDEcx is a state-of-the-art solution designed to enhance client onboarding and implementation. Its primary focus is on improving client visibility and engagement, allowing you to efficiently manage projects, uphold transparency, and provide an exceptional client experience at every stage. Peter Ord's extensive expertise is further reflected in his role as a National Columnist for the Forbes Technology Council, as well as his prior experience as the Vice President of Sales at DealerSocket.On this episode of The Rollercoaster, Tyler and Peter discuss on how books have long been regarded as invaluable tools for acquiring knowledge and honing essential skills. When it comes to mastering the ability to build and ultimately deliver a successful product, there are several top recommendations that stand out. Three notable books worth exploring are:The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick challenges traditional feedback methods, guiding entrepreneurs and product developers to extract valuable insights by asking the right questions and actively listening. It equips them with effective tools to validate ideas and uncover hidden problems.The User Method by Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden advocates user-centered design and agile methodologies. By prioritizing continuous feedback and user-centric approaches, it enables product teams to meet authentic user needs and aspirations.The Lean Startup by Eric Ries revolutionizes startups with a scientific approach to product development. It promotes a lean startup mindset, focusing on the build-measure-learn feedback loop.In any leadership role, whether as a parent or employer, the saying holds true: "It's easier to dampen a child's fire than to reignite it." This timeless wisdom stresses the importance of nurturing and harnessing natural passion and drive, rather than trying to revive it later. Like a flame, a child's enthusiasm burns brightly. As a leader, it's vital to recognize and embrace this inherent energy. By offering guidance, encouragement, and support, you can fuel their potential and ensure sustained motivation and growth.Embrace your entrepreneurial spirit and seize the moment to start a company. In the business world, the mantra is clear: "Just do it." Avoid hesitation and indecision, trusting your instincts and taking action. When pursuing entrepreneurship, it's easy to overthink and delay. However, true success lies in trusting your inner drive and having the courage to leap forward. Don't let fear or self-doubt hinder your potential. Starting a company requires determination, resilience, and a tolerance for uncertainty. Instead of overanalyzing, focus on planning, strategizing, and executing your ideas. Embrace the inherent risks, knowing that mistakes and failures are valuable learning experiences.Where to find Peter Ord:LinkedIn: Sirva SoundbitesExplores the latest trends and topics on global talent mobility and the future of work.Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify-Where to find Tyler Hall: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerchall/ Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-tyler-hall-archives-7018241874482122753/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/sirTHALL Work with Tyler: https://www.tylerchristianhall.com/

Are you part of a tech team that is searching for constant and continuous improvement to get better in your business every quarter, every year, and with every software or product launch? Have you had the term 'OKR' bandied about as you try to decide on your company's Outcomes and Key Results?Jeff Gothelf is the co-author of Lean UX: Designing Great Products with Agile Teams, and Sense and Respond: How Successful Organizations Listen to Customers and Create New Products Continuously. Jeff is my guest today on Scaling Tech, and he's helping me unpack this popular management concept known as OKRs. When should your Key Results be Outcomes driven – and when should they be Output based? How do we give our tech teams the space and autonomy to identify a solution (and the freedom to pivot) while still holding the company accountable to clearly articulated goals?As well as being a prolific author, Jeff is a keynote speaker, trainer, and coach with large organizations – not only helping them build better products, but also build a culture that builds better products too. As such, he is ideally positioned to offer unique insight into how to create the right OKRs for your company. "This is definitely the flavor of the moment when it comes to management ideas." ~ Jeff GothelfIn This Episode:- Why 'the making of a thing' doesn't necessarily indicate value delivered to the market- When is it preferred to set an Outcome-Driven Key Result (over Output)? - What do teams often get wrong when setting OKRs? - The problem of changing your OKRs just to match the work you're already doing- The importance of product discovery when setting OKRs And more!Resources:- Free 1.5-hour Product Strategy Alignment workshop - ideal for any tech teams who seek alignment around ensuring you are building the products/features that are most valuable to your business. Email debbie@stridenyc.com to see if you qualify.Connect with Jeff Gothelf:- Sense and Respond: How Successful Organizations Listen to Customers and Create New Products Continuously - https://www.amazon.com/Sense-Respond-Successful-Organizations-Continuously/dp/1633691888- Lean UX: Applying Lean Principles to Improve User Experience - https://www.amazon.com/Lean-UX-Applying-Principles-Experience/dp/1449311652- Website - https://jeffgothelf.com/Connect with Debbie Madden:- Website - https://www.stride.build/- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbiemadden1/- LinkedIn Page - https://www.linkedin.com/company/stride-build/

Transcript: Joe Krebs 0:20 Welcome back to another episode of Agile FM, my first recording of 2023. I'm going into my second decade of agile FM. And I'm super, super happy to have Jeff Gothelf back to Agile FM, author doesn't really need an introduction, but he's the author of Lean UX, Sense and Respond and Forever Employable and Lean vs Agile versus Design Thinking. And maybe there is another one in the making, we can talk about. First and foremost, Jeff, welcome to the podcast again. Jeff Gothelf 0:53 It's a pleasure to see you. We were just talking before you hit record how long we've known each other. And it's fun, it's fun to keep chatting all these years and seeing where these conversations go. Because because they do get interesting. Like they don't they don't get stale. And it all evolves, you know, Joe Krebs 1:08 thank you. Yes, and we go all the way back, I mean, to today's we're agile are very, very different. You wrote several books in between. I've been active not only here on the podcast, but also through work. And so our paths constantly cross. And obviously, you always have interesting content to share. Today, we want to talk a little bit about our OKR's. On social media, I see you a lot of responses and material you're releasing on OKR's. And you are obviously very, very interested in this topic. And it's not brand new. So there are some people that are talking about OKRs. What is OKRs? But I did some research on it. It's It's It's old, but obviously it hasn't really taken off at that time. So it really started like, way before, but Google really started introducing OKRs as far as that's my understanding, but even at that time, it wasn't really popularized. What's what's attracted you to OKRs? Jeff Gothelf 2:11 Yeah, super interesting, right? So it's a technique, it's been around for more than 40 years, Andy Grove at Intel. And for him, you know, managing by walking, management by objective, sorry, management by objective was kind of the first name for it. And then Google popularized it. What's interesting to me about it, and it's kind of like the same thing that happened with with sort of Lean and Agile and Lean startup and all these different things is that I think the reason why objectives and key results are having their moment in the sun right now. And everybody's interested, is because the technology that we use to deliver products and services, and build businesses on top of today is continuous. And it allows us to learn continuously, and at the pace of the market. So whereas if you think about, you know, when I started working professionally, in the late 90s, I worked in America Online, you know, it was far from continuous, right? We, it was very much not continuous, we worked for nine months to build software, and then print 15 million CDs, and then send them out, and then wait to see what happens, right? I think OKRs would have failed, because it would take too long to get feedback on whether or not you had a meaningful impact on the people who used your, your product or your service. And so as a goal setting framework, it would have been too bad. But today, you can get feedback instantaneously, if you've got enough of an audience size, and certainly very quickly in in a in the majority of cases. And so this is why this is an interesting topic. For me. Number one, I think this is why it's getting a lot of attention. The interesting thing here is that, in my opinion, and I can explain this in a minute, I think objectives and key results are the gateway to agility. Right? So if we can keep capital A agile out of it for just a second, right? And we talk about the the noun agility. I think that objectives and key results, when done correctly, demand that an organization behaves in an agile way that they increase their agility, we can explain why. But to me, that's why I'm so passionate about it these days, is because for all the organizations that have implemented some version of agile some version of Lean UX for Lean startup or design thinking, and I've struggled with it. I believe that if now if they if they kind of give it another shot and they start with OKR's as their goals, they stand a better chance of succeeding.Joe Krebs 5:02 Goal setting. And I actually like your your comment about the entry point or the the access point for for agility. That aside, I've been in my career I've been goal setting and goal and strategies and etc. I've been listening to this for a long, long time in organizations since I can think of in my professional career. Why is it so difficult? There? What do you think why, from a leadership perspective? Why does it seem so, so hard? The goal setting piece, I think, and I don't want to speak for everybody, but it feels like we're pretty good whether, you know, agile on the team level, building a product, maybe scaling, things like that. So there's a lot of things we have, but it's like the goal setting piece seems to be like, struggling, why do you think that is? Jeff Gothelf 5:52 Yeah, look, I think leadership has been trained on 100 years of management, Canon that's based heavily in production, right. And we've I know, we've talked about this in the past, but their managers are trained to optimize production even today, which doesn't make sense in a software based world as, as you know. And so you've got the, the staff of a team of an enterprise or an organization trying to work in an agile way. And they have demands being put on them that are very linear, that are production oriented, that are very prescriptive, go build me this thing, make sure it does these three things, doesn't mean this way, and just try to get it done by Friday, if you can, and that grinds the gears grind there, right? You got agile sort of turned teams trying to go one way, and the organizational and leadership demands going the other way. And but but it's first of all, management's comfortable with that way of setting goals. It's super easy to measure. It's binary. Right? But it's it's you know, did you make the thing? Yeah, here's the thing. I made it, right. Yeah. So if you made the thing, then you did a good job, and I should reward you and I can, and it's easy to measure, right? I didn't make the thing that didn't make the thing, easy to measure, easy to manage, easy to reward. When we change the goal. And this is what OKR's does, right? This is OKR's. At its core, when done correctly, and why it's powerful is the goal changes from output to outcome, it changes from making a thing to positively impact the behavior of the person using the thing, right. Now, the interesting thing about that is that that is not binary. So for example, let's talk, you know, you could say, an output goal could be build a mobile app. Okay, maybe we built the mobile app, okay. And outcome version of that said, we'd like to get at least 50% of our revenue to come through the mobile channel. Like we'd like people to spend at least 50% of the money that they spend with us through the mobile channel, right? That's a behavior change. Right? The goal is not deliver a mobile app, the goal is get folks to spend at least half of their of their, you know, lifetime value, whatever you want to call it. Through the mobile channel. Yeah. Now, let's say, let's say that you give that goal to a team. And at the end of a quarter, six months, they come back and say, look, we got you know, about 27% of the revenues coming through the mobile channel. What do you do with that team? Did they do a good job? They do a bad job? Did you fire them? Like they didn't they didn't hit 50%. And that becomes really difficult. That's one of the ways why this becomes difficult, right? Is this sense of... Well, I don't know what to do with that. Because like, what if they hit 42%? Or 27? May be right. But if they got to 42%, or 43%? What do you do with that as a manager? Right. And I don't think that leadership is the folks who are in leadership positions are necessarily equipped to deal with that today. And I think that's, that's one of the main reasons why this goal setting is challenging. The other reason why this is challenging is because I think leaders are used to telling people what to do. Go make this thing, build it this way and ship it by Friday, when you change that when you change from output to outcome, or build me the mobile app. Clear, super clear in the sense that like, okay, and I want the mobile app to enable online commerce and search and make sure everybody's got a profile. Okay. Right. Drive 50% of revenue through the mobile channel, does not tell the team what to do. And that is really scary for people in a leadership position. Because all of a sudden, they don't really have an answer to the question. Well, what is the team doing right now? What's the team working on? And that's terrifying, because they feel like they should know that and a certain degree they should. And they also feel like they should be telling them that. So there's that there's a trust that they have to have in a team that the team is making good decisions. Joe Krebs 10:14 Seems to be like a cultural changes is needed, not only for OKR, but also for everything that follows the OKR. Right? Because it's the it's not only the framework of understanding how to set goals differently, but it's also how to work differently, right, to your point like 42%. I mean, is that a negative result? You know, in 50%, we are on you know, if that was a lengthy process, let's say, of building a product, there could be many things could happen, that could be still a success, right? So it's an interesting thing. In terms of leadership, there is another tool for for leaders to acquire. Right? That's, I think that's what I'm hearing. Like, it's not only you understand OKR, but also to understand the Agile piece entirely working with teams. Jeff Gothelf 11:00 It's, it's highly complementary to Agile or Agility. Number one, and we'll talk about that in a second. But the it's such a simple concept. And yet it is so difficult to implement simply by switching from managing the output to managing outcome, right? So overall, if we just I can define it for you in 30 seconds, right? The objective is qualitative, aspirational, inspirational and time bound. The reason we get out of bed every morning, right? We want to be the go to destination for online furniture sales in Europe by the end of the year. Right? That's a qualitative aspiration. Why are we doing this? Because we're trying to be the go to destination for online furniture sales in Europe by the end of the year. Okay, easy enough? How do we know we've done that the key results are measures of human behavior, right, they are the things that people will do differently, that tell us that we are the go to destination for online furniture sales in Europe. Right? That is that, that that's critical. And it's things like, it could be average order value, could be repeat customer, the percentage of repeat customers, it could be referrals as plus lots of different behaviors that we could measure. They're super easy concept. But as you start to implement it, this is where it gets difficult. So we talked about measurement, right? We talked about the fact that you're not telling teams, what to build, and then and then on top, but the compatibility here with agile ways of working and agility is, is it's nearly an overlapping circle. Because essentially, what you're saying is team, I need you to go out and discover continuous learning and improvement and iteration, the best combination of code, copy, design, value proposition, business model, that will affect behavior change in this way. So the team conceives hypotheses, begins to do discovery work and discovery work is design thinking, Lean UX, lean startup research, etc. And then based on that evidence, they start to invest in the hypotheses that deliver the behavior change that they're looking for. And they remove effort or or pivot or kill the hypotheses that don't deliver the behavior change that we're looking for. And to be clear, changing course, based on evidence is being agile. So it's highly, highly compatible. But it takes this tremendous, to your point, cultural and organizational shift in understanding how, how work has to shift to to account for this new goal.Joe Krebs 14:00 We got the leadership, there's definitely a different kind of engagement and involvement is needed, right? Coming in, you know, using OKR's. And working with agile teams, if we're going on to the agile team level. So what I hear is, the teams are focusing on outcomes rather than output. Right. And but you also and this is very interesting, because I think that brings out the self-organization, part of an often team really clearly is the team's should not be focused on the features. So we shouldn't be focusing on features we should be focusing on the on the outcome. How do we have to see that that's an interesting piece. I came across one of your LinkedIn in posts recently, and it was it was quite interesting why so not to focus on the features but to focus on the outcomes that really drives a total behavioral change on a team level? Jeff Gothelf 14:53 Yeah.Joe Krebs 14:56 And so let's explore a little bit. Jeff Gothelf 15:00 Go back 20 years in time, the delivery of software to production 20 years ago, even 10 years ago, for the majority of organizations out there was an event. Right? It was a thing. Like, I mean, honestly, we had parties. Literally, we literally threw parties when we delivered software to production, because it took nine months to get there. Right. Right. And, and you know, and we get a t-shirt with the name of the project on and we celebrate the delivery of software, right? Today, you can ship software to production, if you choose to as an organization as fast as you want. There's literally no limit on it, Amazon's doing it once every second. That's, that's kind of the speed. And so the delivery of software is a non event at this point, right? Our ability to get ideas into the hands of customers, to learn whether or not it positively impacted their behavior in ways that we expect it or not. And then to react to that to ship sense and respond if you'll indulge me a little promotion of our second book, right. Is is it's in everybody's fingertips. Right. And so this, this idea that we're focusing on a feature doesn't really matter, of course, we have to ship the features. But we can ship anything we want as quickly as we want. And so the sooner at end, any of our assumptions or hypotheses are going to be wrong to some extent. And so the sooner that we can find out where we're wrong, and where we're right, allows us to change course, and to adjust more quickly, right, that's the agility that we're looking for. And so that begins. And because the delivery of software is is a non event, the focus isn't on, did we get the thing out the door? It's getting the thing out the door, shift the behavior in the right way? And if it didn't? Let's find out why. And if it did, let's find out why. And do more of that. To me, that's, it's a really difficult conversation for everybody involved in the management and the delivery of products, digital products and services. Because it's really easy to think about features. It's a concrete thing.Joe Krebs 17:20 Well, Jeff, you have so far published 4 books, right, if I counted correctly. And this is not the big reveal, I would assume and in the world of agile books, but there is a book 5 in the making. Jeff Gothelf 17:33 There is there is and I'm super excited to be co-writing with Josh Seidenn again, I've continued to work with Josh Seiden and continuously for 15 years at this point, we wrote Lean UX together, we wrote Sense and Respond together, we've built a couple of businesses together and we continue to deliver work together on a regular basis. And he had a tremendously successful that continue to be successful called Outcomes over Output. And so we decided to join forces again on a book and put out an OKR book, we're still working on a title, but the goal is to get it out in October of this year. And it's designed to be the practical, tactical guide for justifying OKR's and then writing them and kind of what happens next and how to implement them and what what to watch out for in a large organization. So if you think about sort of "Measure What Matters" John Doerr's book, sort of as the kind of the big, lofty introduction to OKRs, which has a few things in it that I don't necessarily agree with. Anything about Christina Wodtke's book, "Radical Focus", and if it was 2.0 is being fantastic. generally focused on a single team, though so it's kind of where's the sort of the practical guide for larger teams and teams at scale? That's what we are going for with this book. Super. Joe Krebs 17:33 Yeah, super exciting right. And you also have a course like a self paced course about OKRs when you do a JeffGothelf.com if you if you had to, you know have like a thread through like in terms of topics and how they are like intertwined and you know, linked together out of those books do you see like, like lean UX obviously was a that was a big book coming out in the beginning of not your career, but authors career, right. And then obviously, now there is a book about OKR how does this all connect with each other? If you had to say like, okay, I wrote Lean UX I wrote sense and respond then lean versus agile versus design thinking and now there comes the other one, maybe even the one from Josh, that book that somehow also topic-wise fits in. But what is the theme here? What is what is it? Jeff Gothelf 19:51 Yeah, it's a good question. And no one's ever asked me that question. So I liked this question. So lean UX was a sharing back of ways that we had figured out through trial and error for practicing design, user experience and design in Agile software development environments. That's kind of where it started in its first edition. And it's third edition. Now, it's a bit more broad about kind of how to how to teams design and build great products in an agile environment. The feedback from Lean UX since the day it came out was generally speaking. "I love the book", would love to work this way. My boss doesn't want let me my company doesn't work this way. And so to Josh and I, that was a clear call a sent a signal from the market that said, there's there's something to be done here. People want to work this way. But their bosses don't understand why or how. And so sense and respond was literally a response to the feedback that we sent from Lean UX. It was it was a business book, designed for leaders, I think we've met I think we may be used the word agile in there twice, in 50,000 words, and that was by design, right? It wasn't it was to try to build to write an evergreen book. And that that worked out well. And what's interesting is that, then folks began to take that advice to heart. And they started getting their team's training. And so we're hearing from our clients while we're in their training with with maybe with lean, lean UX, product discovery, design thinking. You know, there's a lot of agile training going on. And the feedback from organizations was looking for training everybody in lean startup and and Lean thinking and design thinking and lean UX and, and Agile and Scrum, and the magic isn't happening. Right? Why isn't the magic happening? And it's interesting, because I felt like we were pretty successful, like, convincing folks that stuff in Lean UX was good stuff in sense and respond was accurate. And now they were trying to make it all happen. But they were kind of buying sort of ad hoc training and trying to make it all together, make it all work together. So that's where Lean versus agile versus Design Thinking came from. And in hindsight, I regret not calling it lean and agile and design thinking, right? Like, that's the only the only change I would make, because fundamentally the the philosophies is the same in my opinion underneath those, those ideas. And so that would have helped people kind of get a better sense of how to unite those processes and build those environments. And then finally, kind of coming full circle to this OKR book today. It feels like, well, it's what we talked about before, right? It feels like the product development parts of an organization get it, right, they get, you know, lean agile and design thinking. But the leadership part of the organization is still making demands on them, that reflect reflect old ways of thinking and old ways of working. So, an OKR book, if it can convince an organization to set goals in this new way, paves the way for the product development teams to be successful with everything else. We've provided them over the last decade. So that's the thread between it all. And it's almost like we should have been done the OKR book first and come his way. But you know, here we are. Joe Krebs 23:26 Yeah, no, it's it's awesome is many of those readers out there listeners, when we have read your material, they will know that not only will you write about it, it was going to be a great book away and as the other ones too. But it's also going to probably going to create a bigger interest in in that topic. So I'm excited about that. Because OKR's from what I understand is also creating a higher level of experimentation. Inspires is something I'm personally very interested about. Right. Soleaders, obviously, as we already pointed out, is is something that that would need to be coming on board with that kind of concept. And I think holistically drive this. This is super interesting. Yeah, that is, so if material out you have you you have training about this topic, you're writing a book about OKRs. And the title is still unknown. We don't know that yet. Jeff Gothelf 24:26 It's TBD. I've been asking Chad GPT to help me and it's done. Okay, it's generated some decent site overall, at least at least. Something has sparked the brainstorm.Joe Krebs 24:39 Yeah. Two quick questions at the at the end here. Before we before we depart. So if some leaders out there it's like is first time I really hear OKRs maybe something's like I've heard about it, but I really have no idea about OKR, what what's your recommendation for Leaders how to get started with that or possibly get warmed up to the topic. And also for maybe the other side, we have touched on in this podcast the teams, right? Like let's say there's a Scrum team. Let's just make it very specific. Right. And let's say there's a scrum team. How does Scrum and OKRs? How does that all link together? In your opinion? Jeff Gothelf 25:21 Yeah. So, look, I think, I think there's a challenge. I wouldn't recommend Measure What Matters any more than what's on every executive desk, just because there's some things in there. Fundamentally, he's okay with, with outputs as key results, and I'm not. So so I have to disagree with that, I'm sorry. But otherwise, and I think like Christina's Wodtk's books are amazing, Christina Wodtke's Radical Focus is amazing. I just, you know, it's generally focused on startups and single teams. And so if you're looking for for sort of a quick primer, there is, first of all, is endless content on my blog, but the OKR course, which is, which is super, in my opinion, super affordable. It's 68 minutes of video. And I think that that's a fair ask, if you're looking for a very short distillation of that. I did a, I did a kind of a video podcast about two years ago, with a show called product beats. Swedish. Okay, folks, I think, and it was like 18 minutes long. And all I did was talk about OKRs for 18 minutes. And so if you just want to invest 18 minutes, that's a great, that's a great little podcast to get into. And that would really kind of break it down very, very clearly as to the what, how the why some of the, the traps and the things to watch out for. So those are good places to start. All those are good places to start. Joe Krebs 26:52 Yeah, maybe people will later refer to this 25 minute podcast of Agile FM and say like that might be the starting point of the starting points, right?Jeff Gothelf 27:00 I hope so.Joe Krebs 27:02 What about teams? What are the changes on a scrum team? For example, if somebody says, Hey, we're going to introduce OKR's into our organization, what's the impact on the scrum team, for example? Jeff Gothelf 27:11 So this is where it gets it. This is where it gets interesting, right? Because again, like, if you don't, if you don't tell the team what to make, they've got to go discover there, they've got to go figure it out. If they don't know how to do discovery, or if they're not allowed to do discovery, then they're just going to retrofit their existing backlog into the goals that you've set for them. And that gets us nowhere, right? Doesn't we've changed nothing at that point, right. And so what changes at the team level is you have to start doing discovery, and then building that into your sprints. So dual track agile, we know that term for a long time, by discovering delivery, with the same team doing both types of work, writing hypotheses, testing them changing things based on evidence, that's key. So if you don't know how to do that, you have to get training for it. If your company won't allow you to do that, but they're setting OKRs as goals, you have to raise your hand, you have to say, look, I appreciate you going down this path. But if we can't go and talk to customers, if we can't run experiments, if you won't allow us to carve time out of every sprint for learning, then we've changed nothing. You're not going anywhere. Joe Krebs 28:21 Oh, that's cool. That's great advice, Jeff. This is, this is awesome. So we learned a lot. Jeff is working on a new book, it's gonna be about OKR's or related content. We heard a little bit about leaders, teams. We got a little bit of advice, and it's all packed into 25 minutes. There's only one sad piece about this podcast, and that is that I heard that we are not having any kind of launch parties anymore, no more printed T shirts those days are over. So for everybody releasing software today, you're missing out. But other than that, we're gonna see great improvements. That's awesome.Jeff Gothelf 29:03 It is sad. I mean, I miss my projects diamond T-Shirt. Project emerald. That was the one after diamond. That was amazing. Joe Krebs 29:13 It's awesome. Thanks, Jeff, for joining me on this podcast. Jeff Gothelf 29:17 My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. It's great chatting with us. Good to see you again.Joe Krebs 29:23 Thank you for listening to Agile FM, the radio for the Agile community. I'm your host Joe Krebs. If you're interested in more programming and additional podcasts, please go to www agile.fm. Talk to you soon.

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. In this episode, Gemma discusses a project where the team was building a database of customer data and a UI to interact with that data. The team was highly motivated and excited about the solution they had come up with, but slowly started to conflate the solution with the outcome. They became so focused on the "one big idea" that they struggled to let go, which resulted in burnout for some team members. The team was great at inspection but not at adaptation. To avoid this type of situation, Gemma suggests seeking outside perspectives and speaking with your peers. As a Scrum Master, she fell victim to the team's energy in the beginning, but realized something was wrong and sought insights from an Agile Coach. It is important not to get too focused on the work without thinking about the process, and seeking outside perspectives can help to prevent this. To get different perspectives, and get out of the day-to-day work focus, why not join our podcast community to network and seek additional perspectives? Join us here.  Featured Book of the Week: Scrum Mastery by Geoff Watts In Scrum Mastery By Geoff Watts (Geoff was a previous guest on the podcast), Gemma found a reminder that, even if the Scrum Master role can sometimes be seen as “the facilitator”, in practice it is much more than that. In this segment, we also talk about the book Right to Left: The digital leader's guide to Lean and Agile by Mike Burrows, that helps Scrum Masters understand how they contribute to the production of value in their role.  In this segment, we also refer to the book Lean UX, whose authors were previous guests on the podcast: Jeff Gothelf, and Josh Seiden, and about Lean in general, an approach that can inspire how we implement Scrum in practice. Do you wish you had decades of experience? Learn from the Best Scrum Masters In The World, Today! The Tips from the Trenches - Scrum Master edition audiobook includes hours of audio interviews with SM's that have decades of experience: from Mike Cohn to Linda Rising, Christopher Avery, and many more. Super-experienced Scrum Masters share their hard-earned lessons with you. Learn those today, make your teams awesome!   About Gemma Murray Gemma works as an Agile Coach for MOO, a branding company whose vision is to provide 'Great design for everyone'. Having worked in various change roles using both waterfall and agile approaches throughout her career, Gemma believes in the diversity of teams to unlock innovation, creativity and delivering value. You can link with Gemma Murray on LinkedIn.

Every single person has the innate ability to become a good leader, and the only thing you have to do is tap this power deep within you. If you can embrace an executive mindset, you can rise to the challenge - right now. You don't have to wait for someone else to acknowledge your talents. April Armstrong, a certified expert facilitator and master executive coach, is a strong believer in this concept. She wrote all about it in her book, The Day One Executive. She joins Dom Brightmon to discuss how to behave and perform like a high-level executive on the go. April discusses the best ways to make yourself feel seen, be heard, and recognized as the skilled leader you truly are. Opening track is titled “Check It Out” by Mountaineer from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/check-it-outLicense code: AR6DFPGVXQ9Q1SSY Please support today's podcast to keep this content coming! CashApp: $DomBrightmonDonate on PayPal: @DBrightmonBuy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dombrightmonGet Going North T-Shirts, Stickers, and More: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/dom-brightmon You May Also Like… Ep. 306 – “Be The SPARK” with Dr. Simon T. Bailey (@SimonTBailey): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-306-be-the-spark-with-simon-t-bailey-simontbailey/ Ep. 336.5 (H2H Special) – “Own Your Career Own Your Life” with Andy Storch (@AndyStorch): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3365-h2h-special-own-your-career-own-your-life-with-andy-storch-andystorch/ 270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/ 254 – “The New Global Manager” with Melissa Lamson (@melissa_lamson1): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/254-the-new-global-manager-with-melissa-lamson-melissa_lamson1/ Ep. 348 – “Bring Inner Greatness Out” with Dr. Mansur Hasib, CISSP, PMP, CPHIMS (@mhasib): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-348-bring-inner-greatness-out-with-dr-mansur-hasib-cissp-pmp-cphims-mhasib/ 289 – “You're Absolutely Worth It” with Velera Wilson (@VeleraWilson): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/289-youre-absolutely-worth-it-with-velera-wilson-velerawilson/ 265 – “Hitting Rock Middle” with Sallie Holder (@SallieHolder17): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/265-hitting-rock-middle-with-sallie-holder-sallieholder17/ Ep. 343 – “Thrive” with Andrew Freedman (@afreedmanthrive): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-343-thrive-with-andrew-freedman-afreedmanthrive/ Ep. 327 – “The Go-Giver Way of Elite Performance” with Bob Burg (@BobBurg): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-327-the-go-giver-way-of-elite-performance-with-bob-burg-bobburg/ 119 - "A Passion for High Performance & Professional Development" with Dr. Elizabeth Carter (@eacaappeal): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/119-a-passion-for-high-performance-professional-development-with-dr-elizabeth-carter-eacaappeal/ Ep. 322.5 (H2H Special) – “Burnout Proof” with Michael Levitt (@bfastleadership): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3225-h2h-special-burnout-proof-with-michael-levitt-bfastleadership/ 193 – “The Quest For Purpose” with Dr. Ken Keis (@crgleader): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/193-the-quest-for-purpose-with-dr-ken-keis-crgleader/ Ep. 420 – “The UPside of Failure” with Tiana Sanchez (@likearealboss): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-420-the-upside-of-failure-with-tiana-sanchez-likearealboss/ 110 - "Self-Intelligence" with Jane Ransom (@TheJaneRansom): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/110-self-intelligence-with-jane-ransom-thejaneransom/ Ep. 359 – “Think Yourself Confident & Successful” with Nathalie Plamondon-Thomas (@thinkyourselfAc): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-359-think-yourself-confident-successful-with-nathalie-plamondon-thomas-thinkyourselfac/ 74 - "Deciding to Soar" with SharRon Jamison (@SharRonJamison): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/74-deciding-to-soar-with-sharron-jamison-sharronjamison/

About the Episode Jeff Gothelf is a product coach, author, speaker and trainer who is currently trying to get companies to work with outcomes, not outputs. He's written two classic books: Sense & Respond, and Lean UX, as well as a variety of other books covering various aspects of product management and design thinking. A message from this episode's sponsor - My Mentor Path This episode is sponsored by My Mentor Path. I'm a passionate advocate for mentoring, and believe it to be one of the highest-leverage activities you can undertake to get ahead in your career. I try to do my part, but am but one man, so I helped set up this FREE mentoring community to try to help out at scale. Sign up now as a mentor, a mentee, or both! Episode highlights:   Lean, Agile & Design Thinking can get along These came from different places, but the philosophies that underlie all of these ideas are the same: understanding our customers, working in shorter cycles, making decisions based on evidence, and continuously improving. Managing for outcomes is the hinge that everything else pivots from There are many principles of good product management, but moving away from output enables focus on the change in behaviour you want to see & have the humility to accept you don't have all the answers upfront OKRs are the gateway drug to agility and good product management OKRs are easy to explain, but difficult to implement. Used right, they can empower teams to make measurable impact towards an aspirational goal, without micromanagement or deciding on a fixed plan upfront. OKRs are for teams, not individuals OKRs enable teams to focus on impact, changing customer behaviour in a way that matters to their business & knowing whether they've succeeded. Cramming individual task lists into the OKR format doesn't achieve anything. Change is scary & might not work the first time Some people start with OKRs by mistake or give it a quarter & then give up. Using OKRs well takes work. If it's not working, make sure you have open & honest retros to understand whether it's fixable & whether you can try again. Buy "Lean UX" "Lean UX is synonymous with modern product design and development. By combining human-centric design, agile ways of working, and a strong business sense, designers, product managers, developers, and scrum masters around the world are making Lean UX the leading approach for digital product teams today In the third edition of this award-winning book, authors Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden help you focus on the product experience rather than deliverables." Check it out on Amazon. Buy "Lean vs. Agile vs. Design Thinking" "As companies evolve to adopt, integrate, and leverage software as the defining element of their success in the 21st century, a rash of processes and methodologies are vying for their product teams' attention. In the worst of cases, each discipline on these teams -- product management, design, and software engineering -- learns a different model. This short, tactical book reconciles the perceived differences in Lean Startup, Design Thinking, and Agile software development by focusing not on rituals and practices but on the values that underpin all three methods." Check it out on Amazon. Check out Jeff's courses Jeff is running some self-paced courses on OKRs, including in Spanish! Check them out here. Contact Jeff You can catch up with Jeff on his website. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn.

Jeff Gothelf talks about the power of Lean UX and how it's evolved over the last 10 years, how he creates compelling stories, the importance of preparation, how we all need to ‘plant our flag' for success, and the tale of the human cannonball. If you enjoy the show, please share it with someone else who might appreciate it, and if you can, leave a review. Follow me on social media for video clips of the episode, or visit the website for more information.  Website: http://pitchguy.co.uk/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pitchguy/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/  

We are excited to announce that the most listened-to podcast for 2022 was our interview with Jeff Gothelf on the topic of Objectives and Key Results (or OKRs). We are excited to share this rebroadcast to celebrate that milestone and introduce our new listeners to the topic! In today's podcast, Jeff Gothelf shares the importance of Objectives and Key Results (or OKRs). Jeff shares the proper way to define OKRs, sharing relatable stories that help you think through how to use them effectively. In the podcast, Jeff shares how to define and use OKRs. Using solid examples, Jeff shares the following topics with Bill: ✅ How to define OKRs based on strategic goals ✅ How leadership defines OKRs for their business ✅ Understand how teams align to OKRs with leadership ✅ How to measure our success in meeting our objectives ✅ Leadership advice to successfully implement OKRs

Jeff Gothelf, business agility and OKR framework expert, organizational designer, author and speaker, sits down with Deidre to share his unique approach to cultivating a product-focused mindset across large, complex enterprise organizations. Jeff uncovers how agile organizations that manage to outcomes are fundamentally in opposition to legacy, command and control leadership practices - and more importantly, how leaders can empower their people with the right framework for autonomy, discovery, and learning. Jeff's Recommended Reads: Jeff Gothelf.com - Blog Sense and Respond - Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden Continuing Discovery Habits - Theresa Torez Lean UX - Jeff Gothelf & Josh Seiden

“Don't just see your career as a job where you're performing a certain task. See it as an apprenticeship to a higher purpose or as your purpose.” - Tony PisanelliToday's featured bestselling author is speaker and career change coach, Tony Pisanelli. Tony and I chat about his new book, “The Phoenix Career Principles: Rising from Employee Ashes to the Flame of Entrepreneurial Success”, how to go from employee to entrepreneur, and more!! Key Things You'll Learn:What inspired Tony to become a career coach.How we can sometimes self-sabotage our careersWhy we need to share our talents after we discover what they are Tony's Site: https://www.tonypisanelli.com/Tony's Books: https://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Career-Principles-Employee-Entrepreneurial/dp/064539680X/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=9SlCJ&content-id=amzn1.sym.91202c6f-1c11-4e3d-b51a-3af958cedd30&pf_rd_p=91202c6f-1c11-4e3d-b51a-3af958cedd30&pf_rd_r=K9N1YW1CN08BKEZF05E5&pd_rd_wg=YzQ1t&pd_rd_r=fffaa6d9-7ef2-4797-adf5-e8a4a9a079ee&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_dsk The opening track is titled, “North Wind and the Sun” by Trevin P. to listen to the full track and download it, click the following link. https://compilationsforhumanity.bandcamp.com/track/north-wind-and-the-sun You May Also Like…270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/ Ep. 384 – “Steal Your Skills From Corporate” with Katrina Roddy (@KRoddy65): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-384-steal-your/ Ep. 336.5 (H2H Special) – “Own Your Career Own Your Life” with Andy Storch (@AndyStorch): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3365-h2h-special-own-your-career-own-your-life-with-andy-storch-andystorch/ Ep. 435 – “Breaking the Code” with Rusty Gailliard (@RustyGaillard): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-435-breaking-the-code-with-rusty-gailliard-rustygaillard/ Ep. 517 – “God's Not Done with You” with Mary Guirovich (@maryguirovich): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-517-gods-not-done-with-you-with-mary-guirovich-maryguirovich/ #Holiday Bonus Ep. – “Be Excellent Now” with Ben Scott, Jr. (@benscottllc): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/holiday-bonus-ep-be-excellent-now-with-ben-scott-jr-benscottllc/ Ep. 472 – “From Academia to Entrepreneurship” with Dr. Emily Crookston (@EMCrookston): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-472-from-academia-to-entrepreneurship-with-dr-emily-crookston-emcrookston/ Ep. 452 – “Writing a Penetrating Tell-All Memoir” with Karin Freeland (@KarinFreeland): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-452-writing-a-tell-all-penetrating-memoir-with-karin-freeland-karinfreeland/ Ep. 501 – “Everyone Is an Entrepreneur” with Gregory Diehl (@GregoryVDiehl): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-501-everyone-is-an-entrepreneur-with-gregory-diehl-gregoryvdiehl/ 265 – “Hitting Rock Middle” with Sallie Holder (@SallieHolder17): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/265-hitting-rock-middle-with-sallie-holder-sallieholder17/ Ep. 402 – “The ASK Framework” with Carole Stizza (@relevant4you): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-402-the-ask-framework-with/ Ep. 343 – “Thrive” with Andrew Freedman (@afreedmanthrive): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-343-thrive-with-andrew-freedman-afreedmanthrive/ Ep. 481 – “Breakthrough” with Thomas Gelmi: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-481-breakthrough-with-thomas-gelmi/ Ep. 410 – “Research Scientist Turned Urban Fantasy Author” with Kristi Charish (@kristicharish): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-410-research-scientist-turned-urban-fantasy-author-with-kristi-charish-kristicharish/ Ep. 396 – “First Lead Yourself” with Stacey Ashley (@AshleyCoaching): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-396-first-lead-yourself-with/

Jeff Gothelf helps organizations build better products and executives build the cultures that build better products. He is the co-author of the award-winning book Lean UX and the Harvard Business Review Press book Sense & Respond.Starting off as a software designer, Jeff now works as a coach, consultant and keynote speaker helping companies bridge the gaps between business agility, digital transformation, product management and human-centered design.Most recently Jeff co-founded Sense & Respond Press, a publishing house for practical business books for busy executives. His most recent book, Forever Employable, was published in June 2020.Forever Employable: How to Stop Looking for Work and Let Your Next Job Find YouRafael Testai, co-hostABOUT BEING AN ENGINEERThe Being an Engineer podcast is a repository for industry knowledge and a tool through which engineers learn about and connect with relevant companies, technologies, people resources, and opportunities. We feature successful mechanical engineers and interview engineers who are passionate about their work and who made a great impact on the engineering community.The Being An Engineer podcast is brought to you by Pipeline Design & Engineering. Pipeline partners with medical & other device engineering teams who need turnkey equipment such as cycle test machines, custom test fixtures, automation equipment, assembly jigs, inspection stations and more. You can find us on the web at www.teampipeline.usWe hope you enjoyed this episode of the Being an Engineer Podcast.Help us rank as the #1 engineering podcast on Apple and Spotify by leaving a review for us.You can find us under the category: mechanical engineering podcast on Apple Podcasts.Being an Engineer podcast is a go-to resource and podcast for engineering students on Spotify, too.Aaron Moncur and Rafael Testai love hearing from their listeners. Feel free to email us, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify!

We dive into the Future of Work in an episode that kicks off our new feed dedicated to the subject. Mike Palmer is joined by Ruth, his virtual cohost, to share some of our favorite conversations and perspectives on the rapidly evolving nature of learning and the workplace. We hear excerpts from Mike's conversations with Michelle Weise, Jeff Gothelf, Kumar Garg, Frances Valintine, and Beth Porter covering a wide range of perspectives on the future of work in our transformative times. Then Mike and Ruth lean into a "lightning round" where we touch on other conversations with folks like Paul Fain, Ryan Craig, Jane Oates and Kathleen DeLaski that will also be featured in the new feed launching. If you like what you're hearing, subscribe to Trending in Education wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want a tighter focus on the Future of Work, check out our new Trending in Ed: Future of Work feed launching this week with new episodes dropping throughout the summer. Visit us at TrendinginEd.com for more!

“Own your accomplishments.” – Mary GuirovichToday's featured bestselling bookcaster is mom, wife, Career Advancement Strategist for Women, and the CEO and Founder of My Promotion Plan, Mary Guirovich. Mary and I have a chat about her book, ”God's Not Done with You – How to Advance Your Career and Live in Abundance”, the importance of faith, and some career advancement tips. Key Things You'll Learn:What led her to publish her book.What limiting beliefs Mary had to shatter before gaining the confidence to write her book.How to see your career advancement as company advancementSome steps to take to help transform your career Mary's Site: https://www.maryguirovich.com/Mary's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Not-Done-You-Abundance/dp/1544525761/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3TZ73T9O6RK2B&keywords=gods+not+done+with+you+mary&qid=1650563937&sprefix=Gods+not+done+%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-2Mary's Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mary-guirovich-show/id1620926947 The opening track is titled "Pilot Wings Remix" by Rukunetsu (aka Project R). Click on the following link to listen and cop the full tune. https://soundcloud.com/rukunetsu/pilotwings-4-results You May Also Like… Ep. 502 – “A Leadership Development Strategy To Bond And Unite” With Amy P. Kelly (@AmyPKelly): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-502-a-leadership-development-strategy-to-bond-and-unite-with-amy-p-kelly-amypkelly/ Ep. 480 – “Applying Your God-given Passions to Everyday Life” with Marnie Swedberg (@MentorMarnie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-480-applying-your-god-given-passions-to-everyday-life-with-marnie-swedberg-mentormarnie/ Ep. 309 – “Home Worthy” with Sandra Rinomato (@SandraRinomato): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-309-home-worthy-with-sandra-rinomato-sandrarinomato/ Ep. 499 – “Take Center Stage” with Janelle Anderson: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-499-take-center-stage-with-janelle-anderson/ Ep. 336.5 (H2H Special) – “Own Your Career Own Your Life” with Andy Storch (@AndyStorch): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3365-h2h-special-own-your-career-own-your-life-with-andy-storch-andystorch/ Ep. 369 – “Self Esteem Doesn't Come in a Bottle” with Kelly Falardeau (@kellyfalardeau): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-369-self-esteem-doesnt-come-in-a-bottle-with-kelly-falardeau-kellyfalardeau/ Ep. 364 – “7 Deadly Thoughts” with Pastor Travis Hall (@PastorTHall): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-364-7-deadly-thoughts-with-pastor-travis-hall-pastorthall/ 113 - "Business, Faith & Empowering Women Over 40" with Jen Du Plessis (@JenDuPlessis): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/113-business-faith-empowering-women-over-40-with-jen-du-plessis-jenduplessis/ 32 - "Beyond the Job Description" with Christina Alva (@christinanalva): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/32-beyond-the-job-description-with-christina-alva-christinanalva/ Ep. 424 – “Thoughtfully Fit” with Darcy Luoma (@DarcyLuoma): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-424-thoughtfully-fit-with-darcy-luoma-darcyluoma/ 42 - "Courage" with Christie Lindor (@MuseMece): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/42-courage-with-christie-lindor-musemece/ Ep. 418 – “Breaking Free & Overcoming Self-Doubt” with Traci Duez (@traciduez): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-418-breaking-free-overcoming-self-doubt-with-traci-duez-traciduez/ 73 - "Sacred Rest" with Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith (@DrDaltonSmith): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/73-sacred-rest-with-dr-saundra-dalton-smith-drdaltonsmith/ 289 – “You're Absolutely Worth It” with Velera Wilson (@VeleraWilson): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/289-youre-absolutely-worth-it-with-velera-wilson-velerawilson/270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/

Melissa Perri welcomes Jeff Gothelf to this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast. An experienced consultant in the Agile and Lean UX space, Jeff just released the third edition of his popular book, Lean UX. Jeff talks with Melissa about how he's shifted focus to teaching about OKRs, and why he encourages the companies he consults with to adopt this goal-setting framework to measure success. He breaks down what OKRs are, why they can't be the only product-led change a company adopts, how many OKRs there should be within an organization, what a good OKR looks like at the executive level, and why OKRs make a “great gateway drug” to organizational agility.  Here are some key points you'll hear Melissa and Jeff talk about: HR leadership, especially the performance, retention, and promotion factions, is taking an interest in new ways to measure success, Jeff shares. They want to learn how to deploy this new metric across their organizations so they can improve their overall internal and external performances. [5:03] Jeff shares how he educates clients about integrating their corporate strategy with their OKRs. “These things don't exist in a vacuum and can't be manufactured out of thin air,” he says. “They have to be derived from some kind of corporate strategy, product strategy, business unit strategy.” [9:19] Objectives are the qualitative goals that we would like to achieve; they are aspirational and inspirational, and the value of doing them should be clear. [11:02] When your teams are too independent, you run the risk of hyperlocal optimization, Jeff advises. “One of the better tactics that I've seen over the years is to take a set of teams and give them the same OKR set to hit,” he adds. “With those teams, we've defined what success is.” [19:09] Jeff describes an exercise he runs with most of his executive clients. They visualize the relationship between impact metrics and leading and lagging indicators in order to identify the outcomes they're going to work toward. What this exercise ends up becoming is a top-to-bottom customer journey map. [25:44] Typically, teams get told what to build; they make a roadmap and get it approved. In Jeff's OKR conversations with clients, he removes the output part of the process. They now have to discover what to build by practicing Lean UX, product discovery, and design thinking. Many organizations either don't know how to do that, or they do and they make it difficult or impossible to execute the work. [33:09] Quarterly check-ins allow you to reflect on whether it makes sense to go towards the goals you've set for yourself. [38:06] Being a good storyteller is a key component of being a good product manager. A vast majority of product managers have to rely on bringing people together on a vision they've either built themselves or along with a team through storytelling, as they lead without authority. If you can tell a concise and compelling story that ties in the necessary information, that will be a valuable asset. [41:45] Resources Jeff Gothelf on LinkedIn | Twitter

Melissa Perri welcomes Jeff Gothelf to this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast. An experienced consultant in the Agile and Lean UX space, Jeff just released the third edition of his popular book, Lean UX. Jeff talks with Melissa about how he's shifted focus to teaching about OKRs, and why he encourages the companies he consults with to adopt this goal-setting framework to measure success. He breaks down what OKRs are, why they can't be the only product-led change a company adopts, how many OKRs there should be within an organization, what a good OKR looks like at the executive level, and why OKRs make a “great gateway drug” to organizational agility.  Here are some key points you'll hear Melissa and Jeff talk about: HR leadership, especially the performance, retention, and promotion factions, is taking an interest in new ways to measure success, Jeff shares. They want to learn how to deploy this new metric across their organizations so they can improve their overall internal and external performances. [5:03] Jeff shares how he educates clients about integrating their corporate strategy with their OKRs. “These things don't exist in a vacuum and can't be manufactured out of thin air,” he says. “They have to be derived from some kind of corporate strategy, product strategy, business unit strategy.” [9:19] Objectives are the qualitative goals that we would like to achieve; they are aspirational and inspirational, and the value of doing them should be clear. [11:02] When your teams are too independent, you run the risk of hyperlocal optimization, Jeff advises. “One of the better tactics that I've seen over the years is to take a set of teams and give them the same OKR set to hit,” he adds. “With those teams, we've defined what success is.” [19:09] Jeff describes an exercise he runs with most of his executive clients. They visualize the relationship between impact metrics and leading and lagging indicators in order to identify the outcomes they're going to work toward. What this exercise ends up becoming is a top-to-bottom customer journey map. [25:44] Typically, teams get told what to build; they make a roadmap and get it approved. In Jeff's OKR conversations with clients, he removes the output part of the process. They now have to discover what to build by practicing Lean UX, product discovery, and design thinking. Many organizations either don't know how to do that, or they do and they make it difficult or impossible to execute the work. [33:09] Quarterly check-ins allow you to reflect on whether it makes sense to go towards the goals you've set for yourself. [38:06] Being a good storyteller is a key component of being a good product manager. A vast majority of product managers have to rely on bringing people together on a vision they've either built themselves or along with a team through storytelling, as they lead without authority. If you can tell a concise and compelling story that ties in the necessary information, that will be a valuable asset. [41:45] Resources Jeff Gothelf on LinkedIn | Twitter

“Lead and care are replacing command and control.” – Thomas Gelmi Today's featured author is executive coach, facilitator, interpersonal effectiveness expert from Switzerland, and member of the Forbes Coaches Council, Thomas Gelmi. Thomas and I talk about coaching, the necessity of authenticity, and more!!!   Key Things You'll Learn: How he went from being in the circus to be in the Forbes Coaches Council The common plateaus that Thomas helps his clients breakthrough as a coach. Why setbacks can set you up for successful a new career The 2 major lessons he's learned from coaching others.   Thomas' Site: https://www.thomasgelmi.com/en/ Thomas' Books: https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Gelmi/e/B01N5XXT66?ref_=dbs_p_pbk_r00_abau_000000   The opening track is titled, “North Wind and the Sun” by Trevin P. to listen to the full track and download it, click the following link. https://compilationsforhumanity.bandcamp.com/track/north-wind-and-the-sun   You May Also Like…   Ep. 438 – “Acoustic Leadership” with Rick Lozano, CSP (@rick_lozano): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-438-acoustic-leadership-with-rick-lozano-csp-rick_lozano/   Ep. 466 – “Sabotage” with Brandon Wilson (@WilbronInc): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-466-sabotage-with-brandon-wilson-wilbroninc/   221 – “Righteous Leadership” with Dr. Ray Charles (@TheDrRayCharles): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/221-righteous-leadership-with-dr-ray-charles-thedrraycharles/   Ep. 306 – “Be The SPARK” with Dr. Simon T. Bailey (@SimonTBailey): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-306-be-the-spark-with-simon-t-bailey-simontbailey/   Ep. 428 – “Hard Conversations” with Dr. Brad Johnson (@bjcommunicates): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-428-hard-conversations-with-dr-brad-johnson-bjcommunicates/   Ep. 355.5 – “One Relationship Away” with Alexei Musienko (@AlexeiMusienko): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3555-one-relationship-away-with-alexei-musienko-alexeimusienko/   Ep. 447 – “Crucible Leadership” with Warwick Fairfax (@CrucibleLeaders): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-447-crucible-leadership-with-warwick-fairfax-crucibleleaders/   136 - "Leadership Development" with Kevin Wayne Johnson (@Writing4theLord): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/136-leadership-development-with-kevin-wayne-johnson-writing4thelord/   Ep. 405 – “Leadership Lessons From The Pub” with Dr. Irvine Nugent (@irvinenugent): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-405-leadership-lessons-from-the-pub-with-dr-irvine-nugent-irvinenugent/   207 – “Expert to Influencer” with Divya Parekh (@coachdivya): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/207-expert-to-influencer-with-divya-parekh-coachdivya/   288.5 (Host 2 Host Bonus) – “Choose the Right Mountain; Climb Faster!” with David Wood (@_playforreal): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/DavidWood2/   Ep. 402 – “The ASK Framework” with Carole Stizza (@relevant4you): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-402-the-ask-framework-with/   Ep. 343 – “Thrive” with Andrew Freedman (@afreedmanthrive): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-343-thrive-with-andrew-freedman-afreedmanthrive/   Ep. 420 – “The UPside of Failure” with Tiana Sanchez (@likearealboss): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-420-the-upside-of-failure-with-tiana-sanchez-likearealboss/   Ep. 373.5 – “Business Secrets for Walking on Water” with Frank Zaccari (@FZaccari): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3735-business-secrets-for-walking-on-water-with-frank-zaccari-fzaccari/   Ep. 435 – “Breaking the Code” with Rusty Gailliard (@RustyGaillard): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-435-breaking-the-code-with-rusty-gailliard-rustygaillard/   Ep. 384 – “Steal Your Skills From Corporate” with Katrina Roddy (@KRoddy65): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-384-steal-your/   270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/   265 – “Hitting Rock Middle” with Sallie Holder (@SallieHolder17): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/265-hitting-rock-middle-with-sallie-holder-sallieholder17/

“Lead and care are replacing command and control.” – Thomas Gelmi Today's featured author is executive coach, facilitator, interpersonal effectiveness expert from Switzerland, and member of the Forbes Coaches Council, Thomas Gelmi. Thomas and I talk about coaching, the necessity of authenticity, and more!!!   Key Things You'll Learn: How he went from being in the circus to be in the Forbes Coaches Council The common plateaus that Thomas helps his clients breakthrough as a coach. Why setbacks can set you up for successful a new career The 2 major lessons he's learned from coaching others.   Thomas' Site: https://www.thomasgelmi.com/en/ Thomas' Books: https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Gelmi/e/B01N5XXT66?ref_=dbs_p_pbk_r00_abau_000000   The opening track is titled, “North Wind and the Sun” by Trevin P. to listen to the full track and download it, click the following link. https://compilationsforhumanity.bandcamp.com/track/north-wind-and-the-sun   You May Also Like…   Ep. 438 – “Acoustic Leadership” with Rick Lozano, CSP (@rick_lozano): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-438-acoustic-leadership-with-rick-lozano-csp-rick_lozano/   Ep. 466 – “Sabotage” with Brandon Wilson (@WilbronInc): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-466-sabotage-with-brandon-wilson-wilbroninc/   221 – “Righteous Leadership” with Dr. Ray Charles (@TheDrRayCharles): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/221-righteous-leadership-with-dr-ray-charles-thedrraycharles/   Ep. 306 – “Be The SPARK” with Dr. Simon T. Bailey (@SimonTBailey): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-306-be-the-spark-with-simon-t-bailey-simontbailey/   Ep. 428 – “Hard Conversations” with Dr. Brad Johnson (@bjcommunicates): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-428-hard-conversations-with-dr-brad-johnson-bjcommunicates/   Ep. 355.5 – “One Relationship Away” with Alexei Musienko (@AlexeiMusienko): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3555-one-relationship-away-with-alexei-musienko-alexeimusienko/   Ep. 447 – “Crucible Leadership” with Warwick Fairfax (@CrucibleLeaders): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-447-crucible-leadership-with-warwick-fairfax-crucibleleaders/   136 - "Leadership Development" with Kevin Wayne Johnson (@Writing4theLord): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/136-leadership-development-with-kevin-wayne-johnson-writing4thelord/   Ep. 405 – “Leadership Lessons From The Pub” with Dr. Irvine Nugent (@irvinenugent): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-405-leadership-lessons-from-the-pub-with-dr-irvine-nugent-irvinenugent/   207 – “Expert to Influencer” with Divya Parekh (@coachdivya): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/207-expert-to-influencer-with-divya-parekh-coachdivya/   288.5 (Host 2 Host Bonus) – “Choose the Right Mountain; Climb Faster!” with David Wood (@_playforreal): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/DavidWood2/   Ep. 402 – “The ASK Framework” with Carole Stizza (@relevant4you): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-402-the-ask-framework-with/   Ep. 343 – “Thrive” with Andrew Freedman (@afreedmanthrive): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-343-thrive-with-andrew-freedman-afreedmanthrive/   Ep. 420 – “The UPside of Failure” with Tiana Sanchez (@likearealboss): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-420-the-upside-of-failure-with-tiana-sanchez-likearealboss/   Ep. 373.5 – “Business Secrets for Walking on Water” with Frank Zaccari (@FZaccari): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3735-business-secrets-for-walking-on-water-with-frank-zaccari-fzaccari/   Ep. 435 – “Breaking the Code” with Rusty Gailliard (@RustyGaillard): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-435-breaking-the-code-with-rusty-gailliard-rustygaillard/   Ep. 384 – “Steal Your Skills From Corporate” with Katrina Roddy (@KRoddy65): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-384-steal-your/   270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/   265 – “Hitting Rock Middle” with Sallie Holder (@SallieHolder17): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/265-hitting-rock-middle-with-sallie-holder-sallieholder17/

You are smarter than you think you are and asking questions is the best way to learn. Today's featured author is ghostwriter, book content specialist, and LinkedIn Content Strategist, Dr. Emily Crookston. Dr. Emily and I talk about her entrepreneurial journey, why LinkedIn rocks for business owners, and more!!   Key Thing's You'll Learn: How the Pocket PhD. Became her business name. 3 Major Lessons Dr. Emily Learned from Being in Business for Over 5 Years What she wishes she knew about business before starting her business. Why LinkedIn is Dr. Emily's favorite social media platform, and the mindset entrepreneurs should have around it.     Dr. Emily's Site: https://www.thepocketphd.com/   Today's Sponsor, “Advance Yourself” Swag: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/dom-brightmon?ref_id=25940   The opening track is titled “Rising Sun Bump” by MadXRuler (formally known as Ruler Inc.). To hear the full track and support the artist, click the following link. https://madxruler.bandcamp.com/track/rising-sun-bump   You May Also Like…   270 – "Forever Employable" with Jeff Gothelf (@jboogie): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/270-forever-employable-with-jeff-gothelf-jboogie/   155 - "Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business" with Laura Pennington Briggs (@sixfigurewriter): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/155-start-your-own-freelance-writing-business-with-laura-pennington-briggs-sixfigurewriter/   279 – “Peak Performance Ghostwriting” with Kathrin Hutson (@ExquisitelyDark): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/279-peak-performance-ghostwriting-with-kathrin-hutson-exquisitelydark/   Ep. 378 – “Writing Adventures with The Dialogue Doctor” with Jeff Elkins (@Jffelkins): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-378-writing-adventures-with-the-dialogue-doctor-with-jeff-elkins-jffelkins/   Ep. 421 – “How to Write Your Book In 21 Days” with Wendy Scheuring (@AuthorsWriter): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-421-how-to-write-your-book-in-21-days-with-wendy-scheuring-authorswriter/   173 - "The God Groove" with David Ritz (@davidritz): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/173-the-god-groove-with-david-ritz-davidritz/   248.5 (Host 2 Host Special) – “A Self-Kick of Positivity” with Shelley Knight (@ShelleyFKnight): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/2485-host-2-host-special-a-self-kick-of-positivity-with-shelley-knight-shelleyfknight/   Ep. 382 – “Coming Out as Yourself” with Stephanie Lavigne (@stephlavigne): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-382-coming-out/   Ep. 444 – “Achieve with Grace” with Theresa Lambert: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-444-achieve-with-grace-with-theresa-lambert/   Ep. 371 – “The Power of Pivoting” with Monica Ortega (@monicagoesshow): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-371-the-power-of-pivoting-with-monica-ortega-monicagoesshow/   110 - "Self-Intelligence" with Jane Ransom (@TheJaneRansom): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/110-self-intelligence-with-jane-ransom-thejaneransom/   Ep. 442 – “Jungle Jean” with Geralyn Gendreau (@geralyngendreau): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-442-jungle-jean-with-geralyn-gendreau-geralyngendreau/   Ep. 308 – “Every Day Is A New Day” with Kim O'Neill (@KimsONaMission): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep308-every-day-is-a-new-day-with-kim-oneill-kimsonamission/   18 - "Inspirational Stuff" with Amy Brooks (@AmyReneeBrooks): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/18-inspirational-stuff-with-amy-brooks-amyreneebrooks/   Ep. 359 – “Think Yourself Confident & Successful” with Nathalie Plamondon-Thomas (@thinkyourselfAc): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-359-think-yourself-confident-successful-with-nathalie-plamondon-thomas-thinkyourselfac/   265 – “Hitting Rock Middle” with Sallie Holder (@SallieHolder17): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/265-hitting-rock-middle-with-sallie-holder-sallieholder17/   228 – “From Individual to Empire” with Laura Bull (@TheLauraBull): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/228-from-individual-to-empire-with-laura-bull-thelaurabull/