Beyond The Pale

Singer-songwriter, guitarist, and didgeridoo player Scott Darlow uses his music to advocate for First Nations Aboriginal community in Australia.  On today's episode he shares about the opportunities he has had to perform in schools, prisons, and concert venues across the world bringing a message of Hope to combat the cynicism and tribalism of today's society.  Along the way he shares how his message is shaped by the teachings of Jesus and as well as some of his experience living in Hong Kong as a child.   Go Beyond the Pale with Scott Darlow!

Author and documentarian Alan O'Hashi shares with Steve & Tammy highlights from his book Beyond Heart Mountain including the impact the internment of Japanese - Americans during WW2 had on his family and the Japanese community in the American West.  Along the way, we discuss Alan's experiences living in an intentional community and the advantages and challenges that come from that. Go Beyond the Pale with Alan O'Hashi!  Find Beyond Heart Mountain here Alan's YouTube channel can be found here

Author & speaker Keith Giles returns to discuss with Steve & Tammy his new book Sola Mysterium: Celebrating the Beautiful Uncertainty of Everything. If God is a Being that transcends imagination, how we can learn to embrace mystery of Christ.  Along the way, Keith shares how Charismatics can understand their experiences, re-wiring your mind for "gratitude", and why it's often scientists, and not theologians, who convey a sense of wonder of the Universe. Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles! Episode Index 1:16 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 11:30 - That time when we “know” everything 12:20 - Intro to “Sola Mysterium” 15:59 - What to do with our “charismatic” experiences? 22:44 - “Everyone is hypnotised on a daily basis” 28:30 - Blurring the line between natural & supernatural 34:44 - Why quantum physics scientists are starting to sound like theologians 42:02 - Why “Sola Mysterium” 43: 56 - Can we “rewire” our brain toward gratitude? 52:59 - J.J. Abrams & his Mystery Box 57:40 - The wonder found in Creation Find out more about Keith's books, classes, and content here: https://www.bk2sq1.com/aboutme

Keith Giles returns to the podcast to discuss with Steve & Tammy his final book in the seven part "un" series Jesus Unarmed: How the Prince of Peace Disarms our Violence.  Along the way Keith also explains where American Christians get their fascination with "redemptive violence", why Evangelicals should re-think their "End Times" theology, and what God really meant when he said we should "be Holy as he is Holy". Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles Episode Index 1:51 - Intro discussion with Steve and Tammy 12:31 - Conversation with Keith begins 16:02 - “All my heroes carried guns” 23:10 - Did Jesus ever use violence? 31:04 - It's hard to introduce Jesus to Christians 44:18 - Re thinking the “End Times” 49:19 - How to really be “Holy as God is Holy”  

Brian Zahnd returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book When Everything Is On Fire and how despite a season of doubt and deconstruction a stronger, more confident faith is possible when it is grounded in the beauty of Christ. Along the way Brian discusses pilgrimage, contemplation,  and how his journey on the Camino de Santiago inspired the book. Go Beyond the Pale with Brian Zahnd Episode Index 2:06 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 11:06 - Conversation with Brian begins 13:04 - Brian and Peri share about about pilgrimage 24:26 - Talking all things Camino de Santiago 30:00 - Brian discusses his new book “When Everything is on Fire” 34:46 - Deconstructing and renovating our faith 37:25 - Beauty will Save the World 51:50 - Notre Dame is on Fire 1:02:34 - Christians of the future  

Simon Rammaci has been active in sharing with Christians that to follow Christ is to be a peacemaker.  He discusses with Beyond the Pale his work with various groups including the Christian Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament to help promote non-violent alternatives in today's increasingly volatile world. Along the way Simon shares a bit of his faith journey which led him from his homeland of Italy to working with various churches in the U.K. Go Beyond the Pale with Simon Ramacci! Episode Index 1:20 - Intro with Steve 3:34 - Conversation with Simon Ramacci begins 4:03 - From Italy to the U.K. 9:33 - Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy 16:45 - Discovering a theology of non-violence 36:57 - Helping Christians to see the Christ Way of non-violence

University Professor and former bassist for the Christian punk band "Undercover" Ojo Taylor returns to discuss a recent blog post he wrote as he turned 65. Getting older ain't easy but Ojo reflects on the benefits that ageing brings including wisdom, perspective, and an understanding of what's really important in life. And of course with his very public transition from Christian musician to atheism we go on frequent tangents discussing God, faith, the nature of belief, and morality without religion...among other things! Go Beyond the Pale with Ojo Taylor! 5:23 - Conversation begins 10:23 - When "friends" unfriend over belief differences 15:57 - Discussing ageing, mortality, and stages of life 16:32 - The benefits of therapy 24:48 - Comparing ourselves to others 25:52 - With age, "Time" becomes our currency 44:56 - No longer trying to "save the world for Jesus" 53:10 - Discussing morality without religion

Hannah Land is an Occupational Therapist and administrator for the online community Progressing Church.  She joins Beyond the Pale to discuss the how theology can be employed to address the personal suffering and trauma experienced by many.  Along the way she opens up about her own experience with sexual abuse as well as sharing some of the life giving understanding of Christ that have helped her and others on their journey.  We also touch on spiritual deconstruction and the process of engaging with others. Go Beyond the Pale with Hannah Land! Episode Index 1:08 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 9:00 - Conversation with Hannah begins 10:47 - What is trauma theology? 18:00 - Hannah shares her personal experience 20:39 - Jesus & the trauma he experienced 32:41 - Spiritual Deconstruction- Is it just a "white people" thing? 42:40 - When is it OK to provoke other people?

The release of Denis Villeneuve's much anticipated adaption of Frank Herbert's "Dune" has drawn the inevitable comparisons to the David Lynch's 1984 adaption. On today's special episode I sit down with movie critic James Marsh to do a deep dive into who really did it better; Dune 1984 or Dune 2021 Episode Index 3:20 - Paul Atreides (Kyle Maclachlan vs. Timothy Chalamet) 8:24- Do we have a bias for the 1984 Dune film 10:40 - Duke Leto (Jurgen Prochnow vs. Oscar Issacs) 15:80- Lady Jessica (Francesca Annis vs. Rebecca Ferguson) 17:11- Baron Harkonnen (Kenneth McMillan vs. Stellan Skarsgard 26:16- Supporting Cast 1984 vs Supporting Cast 2021 35:29- Faithfulness to the book 1984 vs 2021 42:28- Film Score (Toto vs. Hans Zimmer) 46:00- Final comparisons Dune 1984 vs Dune 2021  

Steve Barker joined us back in Episode 41 to talk about Re-Thinking Church and now comes to my rescue to help spare me of the boredom of a mandated 14 days isolation in a Hong Kong hotel room.  Along the way we discuss the COVID situation, my confirmation in the Anglican church, and making the Christian faith practical in the world around us. Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Barker! Episode Index 1:23 - Intro with Steve & Tammy  8:37 - Conversation with Steve Barker begins 9:00 - The effects of quarantine isolation 15:15 - When do we just learn to live with Covid? 22:00 - Traveling Internationally during Covid is expensive 29:32 - Joining the Anglican church 38:19 - Musing on the need for "church" 48:26 - Practical applications of Christianity vs. "Finding God's Will for my Life"

Our Camino Tales series continues as we sit down with our pilgrim friend Diarmuid O'Reiley to discuss some of our shared adventures together on the Camino de Santiago.  Along the way Diarmuid shares a bit of his faith journey, the Lord's Prayer in Gaelic, as well as some political thoughts including an Irish perspective on America's fascination with Donald Trump.  My son Gabriel who walked our 2015 with Diarmuid also joins us in the interview. Go Beyond the Pale with Diarmuid O'Reilly! Episode Guide 1:10- (Intro) Steve in Covid quarantine 8:57 - Conversation begins & Guinness is opened 10:40-  Talking Camino De Santiago 22:05-  The Lord's Prayer in Gaelic 23:01-  Going from Catholic to Charismatic 32:31-  An Irish perspective on Donald Trump 44:20-  When the truth loses it's currency 49:32-  Reminiscing Camino times with Diarmuid 50:35-  Taking Communion on the Camino de Santiago 1:01:01: Pilgrim friends on the Camino

Keith Giles returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book Jesus Unforsaken in which he argues the real Good News of Jesus has been replaced in much of today's church with a toxic message originating with John Calvin in the 1500s.  Keith explains why its crucial to return to the historic Christ-centered view of the cross that sets people free from sin and unveils a God of love who would rather die than live without us. Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles! Episode Index: 1:34- Intro with Steve 5:02- Conversation with Keith begins 8:06- Catching up with Keith since our last podcast together 12:53- What is "atonement" and why it's important 22:21- "To realise God is NOT a monster" 32:12- Alisa Childers and "progressive Christians" 33:56- Discussing a recent history of Christian "boogymen" 37:37- Labels and how followers of Jesus might identify themselves 42:26- Peace Catalyst podcast and building bridges with the Muslim community 52:45- How to choose the path that leads to peace with others

South China Morning Post and RTHK Radio 3 movie critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for their annual Academy Awards predictions.  Along the way we discuss the the nominees in the major categories, who we think WILL win vs. who SHOULD win, and why Brian Cox played a better Hannibal Lector than Anthony Hopkins. Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh!   Episode Index: 1:13- Steve’s Intro 4:28- Interview begins / Small Talk 10:14- Best Actress in a Supporting Role 21:02- Best Actor in a Supporting Role 31:05- Best Actress in a Leading Role 38:10- Best Actor in a Lead Role 41:44 - (Tangent) Anthony Hopkins vs. Brian Cox as Hannibal Lector 46:44 - Best Actor discussion resumes 54:28- Best Director 1:10:39 - Best Picture  

On today's episode Steve sits down with two of his good friends who are nominal Trump voters to help better understand why Christians seem fascinated with conspiracy theories and why they tend to fuel them rather than extinguish them.  Along the way we discuss Donald Trump, the Epoch Times, and how Christians can be conditioned into toxic patterns. Episode Index: 2:17- Intro with Steve 12:16- Was Portland destroyed by Black Lives Matter? 14:10- What does the "main stream media" report on? 21:35- What's on the horizon in "conspiracy land"? 33:24- Refusing a peaceful transfer of power brings violence 41:38- The trusty Epoch Times? 51:50- The habit to defend our Christian "tribe" 55:24- Why Christians struggle to believe Biden can do good 1:05:40- What we think about God matters

David Morgan joins us to discuss University of Chicago Political Science professor Eric Oliver's new book "Enchanted America: How Intuition & Reason Divide Our Politics".  Along the way David helps explain why many Americans are increasingly embracing bizarre conspiracy theories in an attempt to make sense of a complicated and changing world. Go Beyond the Pale with David Morgan! Episode Index: 1:25- Intro with Steve 7:07- Conversation with David begins 9:40- Why Americans are not divided by ideology but by thinking styles 17:00- Why the brain creates mental shortcuts to explain the world 28:28- Can you be a rationalist & believe in the Bible? 34:44- How people respond when they feel judged 47:30- Fragile masculinity leads to even more bizarre behaviour 57:28- Conspiracy theories are a reaction to fear    

Filmmakers David & Kathi Peters sit down with Steve & Tammy to discuss their new documentary Postcards from Babylon which takes aim at the growing Christian Nationalism within American Evangelicalism.  Along the way they share about the impact of Donald Trump on the church, filming Brian & Peri Zahnd while on the Camino de Santiago, and the film's timely message of the Hope still to be found in embracing the Way Jesus proclaimed. Go Beyond the Pale with David & Kathi Peters! Episode Index: 1:38 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 10:35 - Conversation with David & Kathi begins 11:06- Growing up in the centre of Evangelical Christianity 20:29 - “In my house you couldn’t be a Christian and a Democrat” 31:12 - The “Postcards from Babylon” documentary 34:46 - Filming with Brian & Peri Zahnd on the Camino de Santiago 45:01- Tammy shares how the film moved her to tears 50:16- Filming Walter Brueggemann 54:55- Postcards from Babylon reminds the viewer there is hope

Pilgrim Bruce Ayling sits down with Steve to chat about their 2015 journey on the Camino de Santiago.  Along the way Bruce shares how his pilgrimage in Spain helped him to understand his Christian faith in a deeper way. Go Beyond the Pale with Bruce Ayling!  Episode index 1:40- Intro with Steve & Tammy 7:40- Conversation with Bruce begins 13:33- Learning to see God as a Father 26:44 - Doing the Camino in segments 30:33- Highlight of Bruce's Camino de Santiago 40:04- Future "bucket list" pilgrimages  

Author Paul Ellis returns to talk about his new book "The Silent Queen" and why the church needs women to find their voice.  Along the way Paul shares historically how we got to this place of sanctioned gender discrimination in the church and what God's original plan was and can still be. Go Beyond the Pale with Paul Ellis Episode Index: 1:14 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 10:30 - Discussion with Paul begins 15:45 - Background to "The Silent Queen" 24:20- How Aristotle and Plato's sexist ideas infected the early church 27:25 - We think we're not sexist, but we are 38:15 - Tammy explains why women remain silent in the church 48:30 Paul explains why we can often support sex discrimination in the church wrongly believing it's God's plan

On today's episode Steve has a conversation an old friend, Steve Bowens, on issues surrounding race issues in America and specifically the Black Lives Matter movement   Along the way Steve, who is an African-American educator from Colorado, also shares how his Christian faith has shaped him not only in his approach to race relations but in all areas of his life's journey. Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Bowens Episode Index 1:35 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 12:24 - Conversation with Steve Bowens begins 18:35 - Steve shares his Christian faith journey 27:10 - When the church gets partisan 35:24 - Discussing Black Lives Matter 50:00 - Positive ways forward in race relations

Dave Griffiths and Rob Grayson return to Beyond the Pale to discuss what a healthy deconstruction and eventual reconstruction in faith might look like.  Along the way we discuss Creeds, politics, racism, gender inequality, and why Christianity seems the one area where its OK to NOT grow up! Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Rob Grayson & Dave Griffiths! Episode Index: 1:20-  Introduction with Steve & Tammy 5:25- Conversation begins 12:05- Race & Gender in 2020 14:46- Defining modernity and “post”- modernity 22:59- Do Creeds create a static world view? 33:45- Detaching our faith from politics 45:38- Is what you believe proven by how you live? 1:02:00- When Christians learn to grow up

My brother Andrew returns during a hot elections season to talk about the two subjects you aren't suppose to talk about in polite conversation; politics and religion.  Along the way we discuss abortion, nationalism, and spell Trump holds over many American Christians. Get Ready To Go Beyond The Pale with Andrew Hackman!

Steve was interviewed on Hong Kong's Radio 3 "Morning Brew" show to discuss his 1,100 mile Via Francigena pilgrimage and the upcoming memoir chronicling the journey!  

Actor Jason Tobin who stars in the hit TV show Warrior sits down with Steve & Tammy to share his acting journey; the highs, the lows, the frustrations, the lucky breaks, and the perseverance that helped get him to where he is now. Along the way Jason shares what it was like to grow up in Hong Kong, the power of a teacher to inspire, his love of Story, and even our mutual desire to see Hong Kong's airport renamed Bruce Lee International. Go Beyond the Pale with Jason Tobin!   Episode Index: 8:14: Conversation with Jason begins 8:36- Stories from the set of the TV series Warrior 26:40: The Bruce Lee connection to Warrior 28:18: Working with The Fast & The Furious director Justin Lin 32:29: Growing up in Hong Kong 34:12- The power of an inspiring teacher 39:12- Moving to Los Angeles at 18 44:00- Starting at the bottom: Being an "Extra" 52:52- When your dreams imprison you 54:30- Love of martial arts 1:00:50- Becoming a filmmaker 1:12:13- Jason's belief in the power of story  

Long time friend Kit Tso shares a meal with Steve & Tammy and with the help of a little Scotch and Irish whiskey discuss faith, humanity, God, and the advantages of bringing "reason" into one's spiritual journey. Along the way Kit shares some funny anecdotes of riding a motorcycle from London to Belfast! Go Beyond the Pale with Kit Tso! Episode Index: 3:40 Conversation with Kit starts 11:32  Driving a motorcycle to Belfast 25:04  What do we really believe? 38:46 Processing Faith 43:00  Circular or linear spiritual path? 53:00 Applying reason in faith 1:00:20  Connecting faith to real life

Gary Brightman is a Hong Kong based writer and filmmaker who shares his story of turning some of the dreams into realities. Dreams like moving to Hong Kong, attending film school, making documentaries, and finally opening Vibe, the coolest used book and vinyl record store in the city. Go Beyond the Pale with Gary Brightman! Episode Index: 1:33- (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss staycation in Hong Kong 8:28- Conversation with Gary Brightman begins 15:00- Gary is “bit” by the Hong Kong bug 19:42- Paying the bills vs. following your dream 21:08 - Going to film school 28:56- Opening a book and music store 31:02- “Vibe” as a community space

Vernon Pitout is an entrepreneur and business coach who has been a friend of Steve & Tammy for many years. On today's episode they reminisce on their spiritual journeys, discuss the pros and cons of leaders with a vision, and explore some of the challenges the church faces in the 21st century. Go Beyond the Pale with Vernon Pitout! Episode Index: 1:30- (Intro) Steve & Tammy reminisce over the church they started 25 years ago as well as how to deal with the crazy of a polarised world.

21:24- Conversation with Vernon begins 24:48- Doing Good in Church but questions arise 35:38- Thoughts on Worship 43:16- God deals with everyone individually 50:53- Understanding real Freedom 1:04:04- The Pros and Cons of Visionary Leadership  

Lori Marty has had a long journey. Growing up in a Pentecostal home she went on to become a missionary to Pakistan and eventually a Vice President at Word Entertainment, one of the largest Christian music companies in the world. However it was these experiences, along with others she shares that forced her to seriously re-examine her faith. In the process she traded her "certainty" in for "ambiguity" and has become much happier and content in the process. Go Beyond the Pale with Lori Marty! Episode Index: 1:50- (Intro) Tammy discusses dealing with depression and mood 17:57- Conversation with Lori begins 19:18- Decluttering house 25:28- Evangelicalism: Weird…but Safe 29:14- How Lori inspired Steve to become a missionary 32:49- Experimenting with Calvinism 39:51- Positive Church community 47:23- Being taught not to trust non-Christian “experts” 50:50- Loving family who love Trump 56:52- Being a Vice President at Word Music 59:54- Why working with Christians can make you question Christianity

Kevin Miller is a screenwriter and filmmaker whose works encompass a number of documentaries including "Expelled" with Ben Stein and the film "Hellbound" which examined various Christian perspectives on the notions of hell. On today’s episode Kevin shares with Steve & Tammy about his faith Journey as well as his newly released documentary J.E.S.U.S.A which examines the roots of Christianity's age old alliance with nationalism, violence , and Empire. Go Beyond the Pale with Kevin Miller! Episode Index 1:42- (Intro with Steve & Tammy) 10:23- Kevin shares his faith journey background 20:47- How Kevin got into filmmaking 28:26- “Hellbound” and what’s the point of the Gospel with no hell 36:17- Kevin’s new film J.E.S.U.S.A. reminds Steve why he is still a Christian 47:23- Christian non-violence and the problems it presents 1:01:54 - Christianity’s entanglement with Empire from Constantine to America        

Alia Eyres holds a Juris Doctorate from the Georgetown University Law Centre and a Bachelor of Arts in International Affairs from the George Washington University, where she was also a member of the NCAA Division 1 Women’s Rowing Team. She shares with Steve & Tammy her journey that led her out of the world of corporate law to become the director of Mother's Choice, a Hong Kong based charity bringing hope and new stories to vulnerable teenage mothers and families across the city. Along the way Alia shares about the racism she encountered growing up as a “mixed race” child, how kindness and hospitality were instilled in her by her parents, as well as how her faith in Christ has sustained her through life’s challenges. Go Beyond the Pale with Alia Eyres! Episode Index: :35 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the effects of the COVID-19 virus 15:27- Conversation with Alia Eyres begins 21:51- Mother’s Choice 23:17- Coming from a mixed race, faith, culture family 30:02- Learning Hospitality, Generosity, and Kindness from a young age 40:45- Leaving law to lead Mother’s Choice 47:57- Alia learns that God is better than she ever thought possible

Sara Morano is a world traveller and ultra marathoner who just happened to run into Steve on the 1,100 mile Via Francigena pilgrimage from Canterbury to Rome. Sara shares her journey on the ancient pilgrimage as well as the stories of reaching the top of the Alps with Steve. Along the way she shares about training as an ultra marathoner! Go Beyond the Pale with Sara Morano Episode Index: 1:11 - (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the Via Francigena, the Coronavirus, and spiritual deconstruction 26:29- Conversation with Sara begins 29:29- Running the Comrades Marathon in South Africa 37:06- Making room reservations on the Via Francigena 42:25- Sara reaches the top of the Alps with Steve 54:05- Miracles on the Via Francigena

South China Morning Post and RTHK film critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for our annual Oscar predictions show. That's right we take a short break from our usual show format questioning Life, the Universe, and Everything (whose answer we all know is "42") to discuss the best films and performances of 2019.  James will give his predictions on who will be taking home the gold at the 2020 Academy Awards as well as some thoughts on those that got snubbed along the way. Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh! Episode Index: 5:06- Predict Best Supporting Actor Tom Hanks, "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood" Anthony Hopkins, "The Two Popes" Al Pacino, "The Irishman" Joe Pesci, "The Irishman" Brad Pitt, "Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood" 20:06 Predict Best Supporting Actress Kathy Bates, "Richard Jewell" Laura Dern, "Marriage Story" Scarlett Johansson, "Jojo Rabbit" Florence Pugh, "Little Women" Margot Robbie, "Bombshell" 36:34- Predict Best Actress Cynthia Erivo, "Harriet" Scarlett Johansson, "Marriage Story" Saoirse Ronan, "Little Women" Renée Zellweger, "Judy" Charlize Theron, "Bombshell" 44:02- Predict Best Actor Antonio Banderas, "Pain and Glory" Leonardo DiCaprio, "Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood" Adam Driver, "Marriage Story" Joaquin Phoenix, "Joker" Jonathan Pryce, "The Two Popes" 59:24- Predict Best Director Martin Scorsese, "The Irishman" Quentin Tarantino, "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" Bong Joon-ho, "Parasite" Sam Mendes, "1917" Todd Phillips, "Joker" 1:17:21- Predict Best Picture "Ford v Ferrari" "The Irishman" "Jojo Rabbit" "Joker" "Little Women" "Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood" "Marriage Story" "Parasite" "1917"

We start 2020 unplugged! Thats right, no guest, no interview...just Steve & Tammy talking about what they are hoping to do holistically, fiscally, and all around emotionally for the new year...and the new decade! Along the way we discuss minimalism, healthy eating, and yes, even Tiny Houses! Go Beyond the Pale in 2020 with Steve & Tammy!

In this special holiday bonus episode of Beyond the Pale Steve journeys to the land of Israel and interviews some of his International travel companions about highlight experiences from their time in the Holy Land. Go Beyond the Pale in Israel! Episode Index: 00:17- Steve (USA) 6:46- Danny (Israel) 15:01- Ryan (UK) 19:30- Christina (UK) 25:19- Georgina (New Zealand) 27: 58- Kaze (Hong Kong)  

In this episode we catch up with Ojo Taylor, formerly of the Christian punk band Undercover. Join us as we discuss pretty much everything from sin and ethics, to whether America can still be the bulwark of stability it has been in the past. Along the way Ojo questions whether Christians should be promoting a God that requires a blood sacrifice in order to forgive....and other hot button topics. Go Beyond the Pale with Ojo Taylor! Episode Index: 1:13- “(Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss how to love people radically even when its hard 21:47- Talk with Ojo Taylor begins 22:22- When your country goes off the rails 32:28- How Ojo’s friends have reacted to his “de-conversion” 37:06- Evolving beyond the “Volcano god” 40:01- Should we fear or embrace “secularisation?” 53: 30- Ethics & Sin 1:07:19- Some hope for America 1:16:32- When Christian musicians lose their prophetic voice

Educator and Bible teacher Jonathan Mellen shares how adversity has shaped his attitude and approach to life. Along the way he shares his story of being a "missionary kid" whose Christian faith now continues to grow in ways he hadn't expected Go Beyond the Pale with Jonathan Mellen! Episode Index: 1:03- (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss Rob Bell, why Jesus wants to save Christians, and how to see the whole human race as family 21:10- Conversation with Jonathan begins 24:28- How Jonathan first came to Hong Kong 43:04 - How our faith matures 47:20 - Authenticity in Christianity 50:01 - Suffering and Glory 58:56- What is the church for?

Author, teacher, and monastery preacher Brad Jersak joins us to discuss his new book and how Christianity can recapture a more "Christ-like" identity. Along the way Brad shares his own journey and the struggles that have shaped his understanding that God is always loving and on our side. Go Beyond the Pale with Brad Jersak! Episode Index: 1:05 - (Intro) Steve and Tammy discuss faith, weight loss, and the Rugby World Cup 18:08- Brad Jersak shares his story 28:19- Bad atonement theory is not the Gospel 36:49- Brad’s dark night of the soul 43:07- Learning from people rather than “targeting” them 46:34- Discussing Brad’s new book “A More Christ-like Way” 48:47- “Christians” vs. “Christ-followers” 57:08- Brad shares with Tammy some steps to help her develop a contemplative faith without jettisoning the Holy Spirit 1:06:17 Brad contemplates walking the Camino de Santiago 1:07:22- A more Christ-like Way is inclusive

Beyond the Pale celebrates it's 100th episode by sharing the journey of David Hayward aka "the Naked Pastor". David is a former pastor turned cartoonist whose satire and critique of Christian culture has helped many Christians around the world re-think what following Jesus might actually look like. Along the way David shares his own story that we know will inspire you on yours. Go Beyond the Pale with David Hayward! Episode Index: 1:04- Intro with Steve and Tammy on the 100th episode 16:40- Conversation with David begins 21:16- David's journey 35:30- Exploring beyond the church's "invisible line" 49:30- Developing spiritual health when "deconstructing" 54:16- The Church still has so much to give

Australian Brett Moore is an International lawyer who shares his journey of being involved with the Christian Charismatic movement, leaving the legal world for a time to attend Fuller Seminary, and eventually finding his faith land in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church. Along the way Brett opens up about his own experiences of being a victim as a young boy in the sex abuse scandals rocking the Church recently. Go Beyond the Pale with Brett Moore Episode Index: 1:00 - (Intro) Steve and Tammy answer a listener’s questions 24:48 - Conversation with Brett begins 30:28 - More flexible theologically getting older 38:10 - Entering and (mostly) leaving Charismatic Christianity 54:40- Good and Bad ways of relating to God 1:14:05 - Church Life in '90s Hong Kong  1:31:20 - Trying to balance Bible scripture and experience 1:53:25 - Brett opens up about his own experiences being abused as a child in the church

Emily Eldridge is an International artist whose murals and illustration work have taken her to places as far away as Hong Kong, Barcelona, and Berlin. She shares with Steve & Tammy some of the struggles as well as the joy that has come from following her artistic passion. Along the way Emily discusses her faith and how that has shaped her on the journey. Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Emily Eldridge!

In Part 2 of our talk pastor and author Derek Vreeland discusses what it means to "Practice Resurrection", how his own faith has matured over the years, and then gives some advice to Christians who are deconstructing their beliefs. Along the way Derek shares three books that has helped shape his faith on the journey! Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Derek Vreeland! Episode Index: 1:20 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss podcasts, Hong Kong, and CBD oil 14:48: What it means to “Practice Resurrection” 20:48: Untangling the “knots” of Reformed Theology 24:54: Faith turning from “water” to “wine” 32:30: Advice for “deconstructing” Christians 43:20: 3 books and authors who have shaped Derek Vreeland

Pastor Derek Vreeland joins us to discuss his new book "By the Way" where he unpacks the idea of discipleship and shares some things he's learned on his journey that could help you "Follow Jesus" Go Beyond the Pale with Derek Vreeland! Episode Index: 1:21 - (Intro) Steve & Tammy share a bit on the Old Testament and how to navigate it 15:49 - Interview with Derek begins 21:26- Derek’s journey 29:46 - Bringing Critical thinking and experience together 34:52 - Charismatic experience and meeting Brian Zahnd 46:40- The draw of liturgy on charismatics and evangelicals 49: 40- Forming discipleship habits 53:14 - Forming prayer habits

What happens when patriotism runs amok? When it goes from something good and positive into something twisted and a little weird. My brother Andrew Hackman explains "fetish" patriotism and why its not helping a world that could use a little help right now. Go Beyond the Pale with Andrew Hackman! Episode Index: 1:48: (Intro) Tammy’s Birthday at our favorite restaurant 18:28 - (Interview Begins) What is Fetish Patriotism? 24:00 - “Loving your country like an adult and not a 4 yr old” 31:02 - The problem with Christian Nationalism 44:12 - Combating Tribalism 48:48 - Not being “offended” is good for your health

My brother Andrew returns to the show to discuss a number of topics including social media, faith, and how "loving your enemy" works even if you don't believe in God.  Along the way we'll also talk about how to engage those weird, uncomfortable Bible bits. Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Andrew Hackman! Episode index: 2:05 (Intro) Steve and Tammy discuss the impact of social media 20:20 Interview begins 25:17 “I’m an Atheist” 30:40 Engaging with people on Facebook 38:00: Ignoring those uncomfortable Bible bits 48:29: Thinking and Overthinking 1:10:48 A faith without agenda

Tony Bottagaro is an award winning playwright, author, filmmaker, and speaker who serves as Special Advisor on National and International Affairs to the Chamber of the Americas. Tony shares with Steve & Tammy how the message of God's Love has shaped his journey and given him the opportunity to address the United Nations, officials at the Pentagon, and even have an audience with the Pope. Go Beyond the Pale with Tony Bottagaro! Show Index: 1:36 (Intro) Steve & Tammy share a live report from the Philippines 12:23- Interview with Tony begins 15:13- Planting a Seed of Love 25:55- Meeting the Pope 29:59- Pushing people to “convert” just pushes people away 37:20- Tony and Steve share anecdotes about their friendship 46:47- The power of an act of kindness 52:12- Faith communities also need to hear the message of God’s love

In Part 2 of our interview, Kristian Holmes shares his ongoing journey as he and his wife forge a new path of relationship with God outside the normal church structures. Along the way we discuss the Holy Spirit, embracing Mystery, and why you can't "un-see" what you have seen. Go Beyond the Pale with Kristian Holmes! Episode Index: 1:07 (Intro) Steve & Tammy talk about how Richard Rohr’s “The Universal Christ” 22:18: Interview begins- Experiences with God 29:26- “Same issues, different churches” 36:23- Forging a new way of doing Life 56:26- You can’t “unsee” once you have seen

Kristian Holmes shares of his journey that took him out of a trajectory towards senior church leadership. When an understanding of what Christ had done unraveled his grace vs. law paradigm, he and his wife had no choice but to blaze a new trail outside the church structure and the security, financial stability, and identity it had provided. Along the way they discover a God way bigger than they originally known. Go Beyond the Pale with Kristian Holmes! Show Notes: 2:15 (Intro) Steve & Tammy talk about what prayer looks like for them 27:27: Talking the Camino de Santiago 35:48: Kristian describes his spiritual journey 39:19: Introduced to “Universalism” 41:08: Kristian becomes “Born Again”…again 51:45: …but Fundamentalism doesn’t like to let go 58:50: How to connect with God outside of the church structure

Brian Zahnd returns to share with us topics from his new book Postcards from Babylon: The Church in American Exile. Along the way Brian discusses why so many American Christians have traded "the Way of Jesus" for religious nationalism as well as explaining to Tammy what "the Satan" actually is. Go Beyond the Pale with Brian Zahnd! Show Notes: 1:42: (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the sudden passing of Rachel Held Evans 16:00: Why the Jesus Movement Generation has embraced religious nationalism 20:44 Playing the “Jesus Card” in refuting religious nationalism 25:02 Liberating Jesus from “the Red, White, and Blue” 29:47 Front lines of Christianity: San Francisco or the Bible Belt? 36:36 What is “the Satan”?

Brian and Peri Zahnd return to share with us their pilgrimage on the Camino Portuguese; the 160 mile adventure running through Portugal and ending at the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela in Spain. Along the way they share stories we hope will inspire you to perhaps walk your own Camino one day. Go Beyond the Pale with Brian & Peri Zahnd!

Efren Gonzalez is a travel vlogger and filmmaker whose Youtube videos chronicling his journeys have been an inspiration and valuable resource for those planning their own pilgrimage. On today's episode Efren shares some "tales from the trail" including his most recent adventure across Europe on the Via Francigena. Go Beyond the Pale with Efren Gonzalez!

Author, blogger, and podcast host Keith Giles shares a journey that led him away from the traditional church pulpit to planting a house church that gave away ALL money collected to the poor. No salaries, no building, not even for the Sunday morning coffee and donuts. Along the way Keith discusses Biblical inerrancy, Hell, and how he became co-host of the popular podcast Heretic Happy Hour. Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles! Show Index: 2:50 (Intro) Tammy has a bit of a rant 13:00 How Keith and his wife met 15:35 Keith’s spiritual journey begins 24:11 The Rapture and fear of being “Left Behind” 31:27 Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy 35:45: When a pastor starts to question 43:27: Beyond the “Emergent Church” 49:00: Making sense of the Bible 59:40: Starting a House Church 1:03:00: Heretic Happy Hour  

Tammy and I traveled to England to attend the "Progressing Church" weekend as members of the online community gathered at St Luke’s Anglican in the city of Bournemouth. Over meals, music, poetry and talks we encouraged one another in our faith in Christ. Rob Grayson, one of the admins for "Progressing Church" sits down to unpack the weekend with us. Along the way we discuss how a Christian might engage in politics, deconstructing faith, spiritual cliches, and navigating social media in a civil way. Journey Beyond the Pale with Rob Grayson!