Podcast appearances and mentions of matt fradd

Catholic theologian Jacob Phillips is here to discuss papal authority, the SSPX's looming schism over unauthorized ordinations, liturgical division between the Novus Ordo and Traditional Latin Mass, and the broader crisis of institutional trust facing the modern Church. Ep. 585 Theotokos Rosaries: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries -- -- --

Laura Le is here to share her journey from devout Buddhist and near-total despair to her conversion to Catholicism and her growing YouTube channel. Ep. 584 Theotokos Rosaries: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries - - -

Are you seeing things in your marriage or a relationship that feel a little intense or puzzling…and you’re not sure if they're normal or actually signs of a toxic relationship? If so, it's important to pause and look at the pieces of the puzzle together to see what they might be telling you. To discover if you're in a toxic relationship take our free emotional abuse test. Here are five things that might seem “normal,” but aren’t: SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP THAT ARE EASY TO MISS 1. HE WANTS TO MOVE THE RELATIONSHIP FORWARD QUICKLY When you’re in a relationship with someone who seemingly shares and cares about your values and interests, it’s easy to be swept up by the intensity of it all. Especially if the relationship seems to happen at the “right” time, and things move forward quickly. But this level of intensity and pace doesn’t give you time to slow down and really think about why you seem so compatible. 2. HE WANTS CONSTANT ACCESS TO YOU, BUT HE’S CLOSED OFF It might seem caring for your partner or husband to want to know where you are all of the time. But is it reciprocal or does it feel one-sided, like he needs constant visibility into your life, while parts of his remain just out of reach? Many women in these situations describe a quiet, hard-to-explain feeling that something isn't adding up. Like he's keeping close tabs on them… while also keeping options, information, or even other relationships carefully hidden. 3. HIS MOODS SHIFT SUDDENLY AND YOU DON’T KNOW WHY Think about it…in healthy relationships, partners are usually aware of the reasons why one partner isn’t in a good mood. They typically communicate about bad days at work or when they’re not feeling well. But in toxic relationships, that level of trust and communication often isn’t there, because one partner doesn’t want it to be. Everything's fine, until it's not, and then, it suddenly is again…And you're left trying to figure out what changed. 4. HE‘S UPSET OVER SMALL THINGS Things that don't seem like a big deal, suddenly are signs of a toxic relationship. For example, you miss a turn on the way to his best friend’s birthday party… and suddenly it's not about directions anymore. He's accusing you of being disrespectful, or doing it on purpose because you don’t want to go. Or you might simply ask him to help with the groceries, and suddenly he’s angry because, “you don’t respect his time and all the things he has to do.” 5. HE’S A DIFFERENT PERSON WHEN OTHERS ARE WATCHING Things feel tense, confusing, or even cold behind closed doors…but in public, he seems calm, kind, hardworking, and completely put together. For example, during counseling or around friends, he might appear thoughtful, patient, and willing to work on the relationship. He says the right things. He looks sincere. Other people may even be impressed by how hard he's trying. But when you're alone again, it's different. The warmth disappears. The tension returns. And you're left trying to reconcile the version of him everyone else sees…with the version you live with every day. If you relate and you need support, we’re always online to help you. Go to btr.org/group/ to see my daily support group schedule. TRANSCRIPT: EARLY SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HUSBAND Anne:  I did an interview with a member of our community. We’re going to call her Iris, She talked about how his toxic patterns showed up in her marriage and what happened when she started using the strategies she learned in my workshop. Here’s that interview. Welcome, Iris.  Iris: Thank you. Glad to be here. Anne: Let’s start at the beginning of your story. Can you talk about how you felt when you first met your husband? Iris: He was very charming, and he seemed extremely sincere. Now I understand that he was love bombing me and was trying to make things go fast. It was very intense. And he preyed upon me at a time when I was really ready to get married and have kids. Everybody was getting married and having kids. So he went right for what was the most vulnerable part of me. And we met through a young adult single thing in our group. He proceeded to be very attentive. Anne: When you say young adult, single thing, that sounds a little bit like my faith. What’s your faith background? Iris: it’s the Catholic church. It’s actually Theology on Tap, which is at a brew pub, and you can buy a drink and mingle. And then they have a speaker. Anne: Kind of Matt Fraddish. Iris: Yes. Anne: I actually know Matt Fradd in real life. Iris: And I don’t go to the Catholic church anymore. But that was a huge part of our marriage and, we were really in a circle of pretty devout people. Which also I think contributed to my willingness to submit to him. Anne: When you say submit, can you talk about that a little bit more? EARLY CONTROL DISGUISED AS CARE AND SHARED VALUES Iris: Hindsight, there were red flags before we married. There were early signs of coercive control. It dates me, but cell phones weren’t the norm yet. And he bought me a cell phone so he could reach me more easily. He was pretty volatile. He asked me to marry him within a month or two and I deferred and we dated longer, but he was just intense. Then he would be very sorry. He would cold shoulder me at points. He’d be angry for things that were weird, wasn’t very flexible. Now I know these were signs of a toxic relationship. We went through nine months of marriage prep. So many Christian circles focus on the idea that the man is the head. I saw that in my parents' marriage too. My dad made all the decisions. My mom was independent in some ways, but she still did what he wanted. I think I expected marriage to look like that. The husband leads and the wife follows. Even though I was independent, had a master's degree, was over 30, and had traveled, I still lived in a huge Christian community where that model of marriage was everywhere. NOT RECOGNIZING SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Anne: And you just mentioned nobody actually says that, but they actually do say that, it might not be in so many words. It might not be so directly, but they like actually say it. And if you call ’em out and say, “Hey, you said this.” They usually deny it. “Of course, I didn’t say that.” And you’re like, “What? You did.” That’s the part that’s really confusing. The therapists come in or the clergy comes in, or the friends and family, and they gaslight you too. It’s like, “You’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say that.” Especially when they find out what he is really like, and you’re like, “What?” “You told me this.” “Well, I never did.” And they for sure did. It’s almost like no matter what you do, you can’t win. There are friends of mine and maybe friends of yours too, who are amazing and they’re like, “Oh my word, I said the wrong thing.” That is so validating. I feel like when I meet people like that, it’s easy to be like, “It’s okay did the ‘wrong thing’ too. I was doing the best I could and I didn’t know that he was abusive. And I didn’t know what was happening, and didn’t recognize signs of a toxic relationship. So I can’t blame you either.” But, for the other people who continue to not believe us and deny that they said or did certain things. ‘That’s harder. Cause it becomes this almost group of unhealthy people that you’re dealing with, rather than just the one unhealthy person. Iris: Right. Signs of a Toxic Relationship: The Sudden Switch After Marriage Anne: Did you end up going to couple therapy? Iris: In the Catholic Church you do Pre-Cana, which is pre-marriage counseling, and they saw some things that were concerning. He was very intent that he could change things. They would categorize it like how we were different. I think she said to me, “Life might always be kind of hard for him.” ‘Cause that’s what she was seeing.. He works very hard, so he seems very sincere. And he met with the man in the couple we met with. And read books and was very sincere. They said to us, “Oh, we’ve never seen somebody work so hard to try to improve themselves so that they’re ready for a marriage.” He impressed them, and I remember feeling exhausted by that point. And it was a mask. I now know that these were signs of a toxic relationship. Anne: Like you shouldn’t have to work that hard. to be normal. They are hard workers, because it would be very hard to pretend all the time. Iris: Right, and that’s how he lives. He has a mask all the time. We had this huge Catholic wedding, like an hour and 20 minute long mass. And it was that night the switch flipped. And he was angry. He cold shouldered me. We’d waited till our wedding night, and he said things that were incredibly humiliating. Seeing THE SAME SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP IN OTHER WOMEN’S STORIES Iris: Then the next morning he would hardly talk to me. And we left the beautiful hotel. We were to go to a morning brunch at my parents, with guests who were from outta town and our families. And he was furious because people had decorated our car. And he had to stop at a car wash to rinse everything off before we even got to the wedding brunch. Anne: I used this story in my book. Iris: You did? Anne: Yes, this story. Someone else had the same story. Iris: Isn’t that amazing? Like how these Chucks do the same thing to us and have all the same signs of a toxic relationship. Anne: ‘ Like Twilight Zone. Cause you never gave me that story. Iris: isn’t that amazing? I feel like that in group a lot. I’m like, “Oh, that happened to me.” Anne: BTR has been like me trying to fit all the pieces together. And as I’ve tried to fit all the pieces together, things became very clear. And I’ve become very good at seeing in the dark. So this piece of the puzzle I was trying to get it to fit. Like why did he do that? I’ve never met you before, but I spent a lot of time piecing just this piece. With the other pieces that I had of other people’s stories to say, what was this about? I’ve spent so much time with this story in my brain and what it meant. I’m like, holy cow. Iris: Thank you. Thank you for somewhere to tell it, because it was something that felt so shameful for such a long time, rejected, and humiliated. RECOGNIZING THE PATTERNS OF EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE PARTNERS Iris: So we went to that wedding brunch, and I knew he was on edge the whole time. Other people didn’t necessarily see that. We got back to the house we were making our home together, which was his house. And he was angry, he didn’t want to go on our honeymoon, but I was like, I’ve been planning a wedding. All I have been thinking of is being able to go rest on a beach. So he agreed to go, and it was a really a horrible week. He was just fighting. His anger and unreasonableness, were more signs of a toxic relationship. It’s so hard, because he can make it feel like I’m also participating. We finally came home after the week, and at several points I thought maybe I should just fly home,’because it was awful. How would I even ask somebody to come and pick me up? What would I say? What would I do? Feeling so humiliated, like we had this big wedding, we’d done all this preparation, so we finally came home and I remember the first morning after we’d gotten home. He got up, he didn’t even talk to me. He grabbed his mountain bike, and he went mountain biking all day. That was a pattern that repeats throughout our marriage, where he just does his own, yeah. Anne: I had a mountain biking all day incident as well that I wrote about in my book. All of a sudden I’m like, what is happening? This is Twilight Zone, yes. Iris: No way. The Chucks, it’s the Chuck thing, which has been the most powerful thing to learn. WOMEN HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSES Anne: Surreal that they’re all the same. I think that’s one of the powerful things about our group sessions is that the women are so different. We all react differently and we’re all doing the right thing. Because all of our personalities are different. So some of us want to protect ourselves by being quiet and sitting back and that’s the right thing for us. Some of us want to fight the guy, because that’s how our personality is. But they do all the same things. It doesn’t seem the same, because we haven’t acted the same. And I think the thing that like really helps it all come together is when you realize they’re so transactional. That they’re going to manipulate you in whatever way works for you, all signs of a toxic relationship. So if you’ve been trying to protect yourself in a certain way, they’ve been countering your protection methods in a certain way. And then when you change up the way you’re trying to protect yourself, they almost become like a different person. But they’ve been that same exact person the whole time. It’s just that they’re so transactional that they’re like, oh, that’s not working anymore. I have to do this other thing. And this whole new set of problems comes out so they can be super, super nice or super aggressive. But the whole time, it’s manipulation and lies. Did he ever go through a time where he seemed like he was really great? WHEN PREGNANCY AND BAD ADVICE KEEP YOU STUCK WITH SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Iris: I got pregnant right away, so I probably would’ve left, but then I was pregnant and trying to navigate that. When I found out I was pregnant with my first baby, I went to therapy right away, and that therapist just didn’t have the skills to recognize an emotional cycle of abuse and really gaslit me. Then got pregnant again when my daughter was nine months old. So I had two babies, under 18 months old. That was another thing. In my faith, that I grew up with, you’re supposed to accept all babies. That was something that really kept me trapped. I knew once I was pregnant that I would always have to be linked to him. And that was incredibly devastating and terrifying. I think the Christian, and I’m going to say trope, I don’t want to make fun of anybody, but the trope of marriage that you just have to work hard enough and it will all be fine. That really was so damaging when signs of a toxic relationship are present. He did tell me early in our marriage that he had struggled with porn. He did the Every Man’s Battle stuff and everything like that. Also he confided in me that he’d used some at work. He has a security clearance and was about to be interviewed with a, polygraph. He was afraid they would ask him something like that. At the time, he was abusive our whole marriage, but it was the most intense. I didn’t even have the wherewithal to understand that. It was disturbing, it made me feel awful. But I didn’t have any brain space to process what to do with that. He downloaded it on me to get it off his chest. HE WAS Emotionally ABUSIVE ALL OF THE TIME Iris: After my second baby was born, he was probably seven months old, I tried to leave to go to a mom’s group. My ex-husband was angry with me because of my daughter, who’s my older one. I was working on potty training her. And I let her wear pants without underwear. She pooped and he was furious. He came up behind me in the bathroom and pushed me against the counter and said, “Next time, make sure she wears underwear.” So he was abusive all of the time, disrupted my sleep, and would wake me up in the night angry if I coughed. I had to sleep on 18 inches of the bed or less, without moving to not anger him. The reaction I had was to kick him to get him to back up. That’s when he grabbed me by the throat and started to strangle me. And I know now, but I felt terrible later. All I wanted to do was leave. I got my coat and I got in the car and I left. My children were still in the house with him. I just wanted to get away. I went to the mom’s group like everything was fine. But I was dissociated and in trauma. I had gone to my therapist then within a day or two and just poured everything out. And her response was, other women have it worse. And I was so humiliated, like feeling somehow I had caused this. Even though like I knew, I have education. I was in my thirties, I knew that wasn’t right. But the abuse had taken so much of my strength. That kept me so trapped for so long. It made it harder to open up. Therapists aren’t equipped to see signs of a toxic relationship Iris: And we went to so many marriage therapists, who just aren’t equipped. Because Chuck is charming, and they just don’t understand the dynamic except for one therapist who we did not go back to. They didn’t see the signs of a toxiC relationship. But she was crazy. So we went in, it was this dilapidated house. She was far back in the house. The door was open. We went in and sat down. Literally a dog with sores and the cone of shame came out, and she was like, I’ll be right there. Chuck was like, so wigged out. She came out and talked to us for a little while. She also had paranoid notes tacked up on her wall. Anyway, she talks to us for a little while, and Chuck is so wigged out, so Chuck is walking out. And before we leave she says, I want to give you something. And she hands me a page, and it has books on it. So I went home and ordered it, and then it came and I didn’t read it, like I couldn’t read it. I didn’t read it for the longest time, because it was just so painful. But that was the only therapist who saw the signs of a toxic relationship. And then I found out the next week she lost her license, in the newspaper. Anyway, she was the only one who saw the abuse and handed me a key. Anne: So she handed you a clue. When His “I Choose You” Doesn't Add Up Iris: A clue, and she was right. I had gone to other therapists over the years. I looked just crazy, because I would just cry. One therapist had different offices and I would always go to the wrong one. because I had no short term working memory available. Chuck disrupted my sleep. I’d be in the shower, he’d bring the baby in screaming and put them on the bath mat and I’d have to get out and take care of the baby. He’d drive angry, the list goes on and on. I just didn’t have the words to explain. We went to a mom’s group event where dads were invited. And he was angry at me the whole time, but only I knew that. And then I had to get in the car and drive home with him. So it was really intense. And then at about the seven year mark, he decided that marriage worked for him. It was such a delight, such a relief to have him gone for two weeks. He came home from a business trip. And he said, “I realized it’s been you the whole time. You’re really the one that I want to be married to.” Anne: Oh Iris: Right. Anne: Wait, he was having an affair. Iris: I don’t know. Anne: That sounds like something someone would say if they just broke up with someone. Because they’re like trying to choose between the person they’re having an affair with. In my book, I put the pieces together. FROM THE DAY WE GOT MARRIED, THERE WERE SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Anne: After interviewing over 200 women and hearing their stories. I’m pretty good at knowing what happened. I think in this situation, he’s having an affair and she breaks up with him. He’s feeling bummed about it. He might say out loud to you, I decided I want to be with you. Iris: Mm hmm Anne: You don’t have the context of the affair, of him breaking up with her. So this really weird out of the blue statement, “I’ve decided I want to be married to you.” When he’s been married to you for seven years is odd. It also feels like a relief, “Oh, maybe he just didn’t want to be married to me before, and now he’s choosing me.” But you don’t realize what a weird out of place thing that is, because he makes you feel better in that moment. I don’t know if that rings true to you, but it seems that would be the order of events that would precipitate out of the blue, telling you, “Oh, I’m choosing you now.” Iris: Yeah, it didn’t make me feel better, because from the day we got married, he was horrible. it was awful. Anne: So you’re like, great. Now this awful person really wants to be married to me. Iris: It felt like a lie. Now that I understand how Chuck works, like there was something he wanted, he didn’t really love me. Somebody who really loved me and realized they were wrong would’ve not said that. I think they would’ve said, ” I’ve been horrible. I can see why you wouldn’t even want to be married to me, but I realized I really want to be married to you. They would’ve said something to try to heal that. Anne: Some effort to repair. Seeing the Patterns and Signs of a Toxic Relationship Anne: Instead it was more signs of a toxic relationship. Iris: I think so. And I think that’s why it felt awful. Because he manipulated me. Which I don’t think I could verbalize at that time, but he manipulated again. Anne: Were you about to leave at that time? Was there anything about you that was different? Iris: He knew that I was unhappy, but he was abusive all of the time, yeah. Anne: Did you ever find out about explicit media use? Iris: He told me, in hindsight, he’d invited a single woman that he’d never met to our wedding. Which was weird. It was a last minute thing, and I feel like she was probably a backup. Anne: You’ve said three stories now that sound exactly like other stories. I have heard this before. Your story includes all the classic, down to the detail. Iris: Wow Anne: Of inviting someone else to the wedding. Iris: The Chuckness of it. Anne: You got a winner. Iris: He’s a doozy. He told me later that he didn’t actually want to get married. Then when I look at inviting this woman to the wedding, he didn’t admit that for many years. But when he did, I was like, oh, so she must have been the escape hatch. If he didn’t go through with marrying me, he would’ve had someone in the wings. FEELING HELPLESS Iris: I suspect he continues to use porn. He is in cybersecurity, and he always had three computers in his office. So I wonder if one of those he used. I don’t know. I’ve always been curious about what that was. I don’t think I was as tuned into that until I was leaving the marriage. And then there wasn’t much that I had access to. There wasn’t anybody that seemed to have that language who I could talk to. I just felt really helpless, and he was very manipulative and very controlling, the love bombing, he is very good at. The other part was that I was super reactive at that point. So I felt very guilty about my responses to his behavior. Even though it was less intense and further apart. But the reality is that those first seven years, in the bedroom, total coercion, marital rape, and everything now that I have words for, had happened. By that point, like there was very little he had to do to make me comply, to try to stay out of his way. I would try to have a separate life, while maintaining that Christian marriage appearance. It took me a long time to see these as signs of a toxic relationship. Anne: We would probably call it like survival mode. You are trying to survive and that’s why a lot of people use the word survivor when they talk about abuse victims, because every day you’re just trying to survive. Why Getting Help Feels So Scary at First Iris: Yeah, daily. Navigate all of the things that are happening that just don’t make any sense. And I don’t have the words for. I think during the pandemic, I started to see your Instagrams. And it was like, oh, that’s what’s happening, those are the words. That’s what this is. And beginning to be able to label things and feel like I’m not alone. Then, wanting to join group, but then being afraid. What if it doesn’t help, I don’t want Chuck to know I’m joining? Just feeling do I really want to do that? because I felt like if I go through that door, I can’t go back. Anne: Can we talk about that for a minute? because a lot of women have told me that. I followed you on Instagram, or I listened to the podcast, and I didn’t start attending group sessions because I knew it would change everything. What is it about BTR that is different in that way? It’s different than maybe therapy or something. Is it because you’re going to finally get help to look at it. Seeing the signs of a toxic relationship can be scary at first. Iris: This can make me cry. I think, because no one had helped. So I think there was an element of, I could try this and probably it’s still not going to help. By that point, looking for help for so long and thinking, I don’t know that anything will help. then being so vulnerable and beaten down. I think there’s a sense of like, does anybody really want to help me? Do I deserve help? because it certainly seems like it’s my fault. So being very afraid to join a group. Like it’s terrifying the first day. BTR FELT LIKE AN ANSWER TO PRAYER Anne: Once you did attend a group session? Were you surprised at what happened? Iris: Yeah, the first day I joined, you hear that zoom beep and you are in group and feeling so afraid. But I was so welcome. it was like I could take a breath, even though really I was crying so hard. Hearing everybody talk, hearing the coaches talk, feeling like the words made sense. I didn’t share that first time, but just crying afterwards. Like there’s somewhere that gets this. There’s somewhere where there are other women who understand this. I’ve never met anybody who knows what’s happening to me. In my story, something that’s amazing was that when my daughter was a baby, there was this show on daytime TV called Starting Over House. It was a reality show for women to go to this house and start over. They had two coaches, and I remember watching these women go, and they had all different kinds of problems that they were trying to grow from or whatever. All I wanted was to take my baby and join that house. It was a reality show. I’m sure it would not have been really super helpful. But I just wanted to have people love on me and help me figure out my marriage. That’s all I wanted. So when I came to Betrayal Trauma Recovery group, I’m not kidding you, two of the coaches looked like those two coaches on that show. It just felt like it was a prayer answer. HIS ANGER WAS THERE ALL THE TIME Iris: So Sharon and Renee, two coaches loved on me and made me feel like I wasn’t crazy. And helped me to slowly unravel what had been happening and what had happened to me, and find my voice. I joined in the spring, I was already starting to take steps in my marriage to not engage with Chuck. By July, he was angry with me all of the time. Which I’ll come back to in just a minute. But , before I had joined, he had done some really angry driving in the car. He’d been angry one day when I had locked the door to the master bedroom, because I like to pray and meditate. And then I had gotten in the shower without unlocking it. Because I just want privacy from two kids, a dog and a Chuck. He banged on the door for as long as I was in the shower, and I could hardly hear him, but it scared the pants off of my kids. I felt like I didn’t know what to do. When I joined group, I finally started to have some strategies and observe him. Sometimes I forget all the things that happened. Right before I joined in February, he bought a new car and asked for money from his father. Then he came to me and said, “I didn’t spend all the money on the car. I saved some, so either you can go to marriage therapy with me.”, which he’d been threatening, and I didn’t want to go to marriage therapy with him because we’d been many, many times. GROUP HELPED ME SEE THE SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Iris: He said, “Either you go to marriage therapy with me, and I’ll buy a car for our daughter, or I’m going to divorce you. Not long after that, I ended up joining group. Then he said, “I used that money to file for divorce. I hired an attorney, and how do you want me to serve you your papers?” At that point, I had enough skill to say you can have me served, thank you. And it was super calm. And then I actually jumped in group and was able to just process. One of the things that was so amazing was that everything happening to me in real time, I could then go in a group, get support, be in my closet, my car, or at the library. The more I went towards health and boundaries, the angrier he got. So he actually continued to ask me for two months how I wanted my divorce papers. I can see how divorce and emotional abuse were intertwined, he was using the threat of divorce to try to control me. I would say, “You can have me served.” And he would say, I don’t want to pay $400. He did that until I got a paper in the mail and I thought that I was being served. I didn’t think I could be served in the mail, which you can’t in my state, but it was actually that they were going to kick it out of the system. I took that paper to an attorney, because I had been interviewing attorneys. That kicked off the divorce process. Because I was served. Anne: That whole time he is asking, “How do you want to be served? And you’re like, “Just serve me.” DEALING WITH CONTROL WHEN HE FILED FOR DIVORCE Anne: He's trying to get you to do something to stop the divorce. He threatens you—if you don't toe the line, I'll divorce you. When you’re like, okay, go ahead and divorce me, then he’s escalating. Using all the tricks and signs of a toxic relationship that worked before. He reminds me of my ex, who said that. Then he didn’t file. Because he thought that would instigate me repairing. Or me doing the thing I was supposed to do. And when I didn’t do it, I don’t think he wanted to file for divorce. It’s just that he couldn’t figure out how to control me anymore. He was like, well, I guess I have to make these things happen. And it sounds the same in this scenario, where he’s trying to get you to do something. Because a normal person, if they’re like, how do you want me to serve you? And you say, oh, just serve me. They’d be like, okay. And they would serve you. Iris: Right, it was control. I was so thankful I could go back in group and have the framework, putting my lab coat on, doing one step at a time. Getting shored up so that I wouldn’t be bowled over by his behavior. I finally hired an attorney, and my attorney notified his attorney. Chuck came to me and said, “Well, that’s not fair. You didn’t tell me you had an attorney. And now we both have to decide to dismiss the divorce. I can’t just decide myself.” Anne: Like not to get divorced? After he’s filed, he’s like, wait. Now that you’ve responded to me serving you with divorce papers, we actually have to get divorced. Iris: Right. Anne: That sounds like my Chuck too. INDIVIDUAL SESSIONS HELPED ME GET READY FOR EACH BIG BATTLE Iris: Really, it’s like they’re all going by the same playbook. I think realizing that these are all the signs of a toxic relationship was huge. And it allowed me to understand that my job was to be strategic. Chuck does a lot of stupid as a strategy. That attorney he hired in July, by the time our status conference was in October, he’d used all of his retainer. Which was $5,000, and nothing had happened yet. Because he is a Chuck and likes to call his attorney to talk. So then right after the status conference, he fired the attorney and then went pro se for a while. I was so thankful that I had BTR, that I could do group. I could do the Betrayal Trauma Recovery individual sessions to get ready for each big barrier or battle with him, so that I went in calm and focused. It really allowed me, in my divorce process to understand that this was the best thing for me. Even though he was trying to control me. It was finally the door out. And he kept coming back to me and asking, “Do you really want a divorce?” And I would say, “You could move out.” But he never would. One of the other things was that understanding that there was going to be so much out of my control and really focusing on what was in my control. In my coaching sessions with Renee and with Sharon, being able to determine what my top priorities were. My priorities weren’t numbers. My priorities were big picture. And then I said, these are the things that are most important and this is what I want to work towards. And it helped me. I feel like things worked out well for me. WE SETTLED AN HOUR BEFORE COURT Iris: So having enough money to restart and go back to school. Having stability for my kids, not selling the house immediately so that my daughter could finish high school. Like those were the big picture things. And because Chuck just wants to fight, it was the 11th hour literally. He hired an attorney again, just weeks before our divorce was final. But we ended up settling like an hour before court. I was able just to hang on, to understand it was going to be like that no matter what I did. Like I didn’t have any control over him, and I really got up that morning not knowing what was going to happen. And being at peace in that, and that I was doing all the things that I needed to do, and to let go of that so that I wasn’t in a battle with him. That was incredibly powerful. Hard but powerful. So it’s been final for two years. And the post separation abuse continues, and BTR’s been incredibly helpful in that. I was able to stay in our marital home for a year till our daughter graduated, and then last year that sold. So I moved out and things just lined up. In part because he was so disorganized. I think that worked out in my favor. And I’m now in school finishing a post Master’s certificate in school counseling. And I got hired last fall as a school counselor. So I’m working full-time as a school counselor while finishing my certificate. Just having somewhere to work out the technical stuff and then the emotional stuff, to understand how to be strategic. RESTARTING MY LIFE Iris: Because I could stay in that place rather than be in his blender. Which is what it was for 18 years. I have been able to restart my life and feel so grateful and fortunate. That I’ve had the support, and he continues to be abusive. And my daughter now is 19 and my son is 17. And so being able to talk about that and how he behaves helped me. I know that at some point, I won’t have to interact with him as much. Or at all once my kids are bigger. But because of the type of abuser he is, because of the types of things he did to me, I know that I am at greater risk of him being dangerous to me physically. And so being able to unpack that, but also, understanding that I have a right to safety and that I can take steps to do that and not feel bad about it. He’s much sneakier now. He’s incredibly angry with me and feels like the divorce was unfair. Because his goal is control, he can’t control me anymore, I think is one reason why he’s angry. It is palpable when I’m around him. He seethes at me. Other people may not be able to see it because he’ll mask it until there’s nobody around. But I think it has been invaluable to me to have a community where I can process that and then take steps to be safe from all the signs of a toxic relationship. When I finally blocked him, which was scary to do, because we have two kids. And that was easier to be able to text and call. It was just another vector for him to get to me. BLOCKING HIM FELT SO EMPOWERING Iris: So blocking him and doing email only. It felt so empowering to make that decision and be able to unpack that in group and also get the support of “Yay, you finally blocked him.” Like I’d been talking about it for so long. And trying to figure out the signs of a toxic relationship, There are the big steps to leave abuse and there are smaller ones too. Sometimes it’s the little ones that felt really hard. Especially because then my kids would know that I blocked him. Moving away from abuse is hard. I left the house today because I have somebody cleaning my house, which I started hiring somebody. So that I can do all that I’m doing. because I’ve been in school and working full-time and parenting two teens, and it feels so empowering. When they walked in today, I was thinking, because I was coming to talk to you and I was like, they’re helping me leave abuse. And I can say that to you. I think you know that. But he was abusive with cleaning. He would wake me. He likes things clean. He’d wake the kids cleaning and it’s very controlling. But to have a clean house and not be abused, it’s hard to express. This is my safe space, and I get to decide how it gets clean. I get to decide how to spend my money. I get to make choices now that I couldn’t make before. I’m just so incredibly grateful that BTR, I can make choices and know that I can. Thank you. LEARNING THE STRATEGIES IS INVALUABLE Anne: You are so brave and so strong. Look at you. You’ve got a good job. You have enough money to be able to hire someone to help clean your house, and the lack of guilt. Because some people have the money, but they’re like, I still can’t. I should be able to, no, like look at all the amazing things that you’ve accomplished. When it comes to divorce, if people ask me my situation, I say I am proudly divorced. I am so happy divorced. And I also say things like abuse doesn’t work out for a lot of people, but it worked out so well for me. Because everything that I have gained from learning about the signs of a toxic relationship and the strategies of protecting myself, has been invaluable. Like our confidence just grows day by day. That little voice in our heads and that little like charge that feels like I’m doing something wrong or I can’t do this or I can’t do that just starts to fade away. And life feels so free and wonderful. I’m so happy for you. It’s wonderful. Good job. Iris: Thank you, thank you for starting BTR and your podcasts were such a beacon for me too. Before I started group of these voices saying, “You’re not alone, you’re not crazy.” Listening to your voice, I still probably need to hear that a lot, because he makes me feel crazy. So thank you. Anne: Well, thank you, without women like you who listen and come and use our services, we wouldn’t be here. So thank you. Our services are incredible. Our team is incredible. It’s such a safe place. THE DIFFERENCE WITH BTR SERVICES Anne: I’ve been thinking a lot about the difference between BTR and the difference in our services is that it’s so real. You really have women you can see who know your story. You can talk to them every single day in person . And they’re never going to blame you or judge you. It’s never going to be that you made some kind of soul contract, like the weird stuff that you might hear from people who somehow try to blame you. I’m like, there’s no reason to ever say any of it had anything to do with you. because you were surviving the best you could the whole time, and you were going for help, and no one gave you the right information. And none of that has anything to do with you. They are helping you deal with the signs of a toxic relationship. That’s the crazy thing about abuse. You’re doing every single thing right and you still can’t get the right information. Despite you trying to get it for years. Some people don’t believe it, because they can’t imagine that would happen. But it happens every day with so many women all over the world. Anyway, thank you for your support of BTR. Iris: It is really such a privilege to be in this community. I felt, loved on and prayed for fiercely. BTR GIVES US THE STRATEGIES THAT WE NEED Iris: I remember when I first started. I thought they’re giving us the weapons that we need to fight the battle. Almost under the cover of darkness. They sort of come into our homes, our cars, our closets, and give us the weapons we need to fight the evil that is happening to all of us. Like all of a sudden realizing the support, but also the education that BTR does, is invaluable, to help us recognize and deal with the signs of a toxic relationship. I could get out of my reactive brain and really start to think, “Oh, this is what’s happening. Okay, this is what I can do. Chuck is doing this. This is what I’ve always done, but I don’t have to do that. I can do this.” It changed everything. Anne: Well, I am so glad, thank you so much, Iris, for taking the time to share your story with me today. Iris: Thank you.

Biblical Scholar, Dr. John Bergsma, a former Protestant pastor who converted to Catholicism, tackles the most common Protestant objections to the Catholic faith from confession and icon veneration to sola scriptura, papal infallibility, and the development of doctrine, using Scripture, early Church history, and his own conversion story. Ep. 583 - - -

Mother Natalia is back and it's her first visit to the new set. She shares her vocation story as well as insights into Byzantine spirituality, sin, suffering, and intimacy with God. Ep. 582 - - -

Mormons ROAST the Critics! Alex O'Connor, Matt Fradd & Cameron Bertuzzi vs Joseph Smith

Joseph Smith = American Muhammad? Ward Radio DESTROYS Daily Wire Tropes w/ Don Bradley & All Those in FavorYouTube Description:Ward Radio reacts to Matt Fradd (Pints with Aquinas / Daily Wire) and Mike Jones (Inspiring Philosophy) comparing Joseph Smith to Muhammad. Historian Don Bradley, Baylor Johnson, Brad Whipple, Kweku L, and Cardon Ellis provide detailed debunking, historical context, humor, and powerful testimony.Topics: Polygamy & sealings, "child bride" myths, First Vision, interfaith charity, Catholic parallels, Daily Wire cancellations, creeds, evidence for the Restoration, and more.

Ethan Muse is here to make watertight arguments for how the Marian apparitions of Fatima, the stigmata of Padre Pio, and the Lanciano Eucharistic miracle, each naturalistically inexplicable, collectively vindicate the core doctrines of Catholicism, such that rejecting all of them as fraud, coincidence, or demonic deception becomes increasingly implausible. Ep. 581 Theotokos Rosaries are available here: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries - - -

Is Islam compatible with the West? Christian apologist Michael Jones breaks down the core tenets of Islam, why it conflicts with Western civilization, and why the evidence still points to Christianity being true. Ep. 580 Theotokos Rosaries are available here: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries - - -

Malcolm Guite joins the show for a wide-ranging conversation covering Arthurian legend, the friendship of Tolkien and Lewis, and the deep human longing for mystery and enchantment. Ep. 579 - - -

Russell Brand joins the show to share about his conversion, overcoming addiction and his latest book, How To Become a Christian in 7 Days.   Ep. 578 - - -

Dr. J. Budziszewski, philosopher professor at the University of Texas at Austin, and bestselling author of Pandemic of Lunacy is here to tackle some of the deepest questions of our time: the incoherence of nihilism and materialism, Nietzsche's dangerous appeal, transhumanism, sexual ethics, and what it actually means to love. Ep. 577 - - -

It's Last Call! The Sisters of Life are back to share a heartfelt message of compassion and hope  to women who have posted about their crisis pregnancies on Reddit.  Pints: Last Call Ep. 12 - - -

Ex-Satanist turned Catholic convert, Shayne Smith, returns for a wide-ranging conversation sharing his past involvement with the occult, thoughts on why the Catholic church is more popular than ever and insight into the life of a comedian.  Ep. 576 - - -

Can atheism really be reduced to “I'm not convinced”? In this episode, Trent Horn joins Matt Fradd to respond to some of the most popular atheist clips online, including arguments from Ricky Gervais, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, and Alex O'Connor. They tackle bad definitions of atheism, burden-shifting, the “one less god” objection, fine-tuning, divine hiddenness, and the problem of evil from a Catholic perspective. Whether you're wrestling with belief yourself or want better answers to common atheist objections, this conversation is packed with sharp arguments, clear distinctions, and practical ways to think through the debate.

It's Last Call! Professor of History, Dr. Thomas Madden is back to debunk common myths surrounding the inquisition, popes, and even flat earth. Pints: Last Call Ep. 11 - - -

Stephen C. Meyer sits down with Matt to discuss evolution, intelligent design, and the collapse of New Atheism. Ep. 575 - - -

It's Last Call! New York Times bestselling author, mythographer and thinker, Martin Shaw is back to tell Matt Fradd (and you) a story. Put your feet up, close your eyes, and enjoy. Pints: Last Call Ep. 10 - - -

Fr. John A. Perricone entered seminary in 1968 and watched from the inside as the Catholic Church underwent its most catastrophic crisis in modern history: heresy taught openly in classrooms, thousands of priests abandoning the faith, and a generation of bishops who did nothing to stop it. Today, he sees the tide turning with many returning to these previously discarded traditions of the Catholic Church. Ep. 574 Theotokos Rosaries are available here: https://store.dailywire.com/collections/matt-fradd-pints-with-aquinas/products/rosary - - -

It's Last Call! Catholic apologist, Trent Horn, is back to absolutely DESTROY Atheism (in a nice way) alongside host, Matt Fradd. Pints: Last Call Ep. 9 - - -

In this conversation, Matt welcomes Sister Magnificat Rose and Sister Mary Grace of the Sisters of Life, a religious community founded in 1991 by Cardinal O'Connor to protect the sacredness of human life. The sisters share their vocation stories, the transformative encounters they have with strangers simply by wearing the habit, and the profound ministry they offer to women facing crisis pregnancies. The conversation weaves together deeply personal reflections on self-reliance, God's mercy, shame, community life, and what it means to truly see and receive every human person as sacred. Ep. 573 - - -

Matt Fradd takes on one of the New Atheist movement's most popular catchphrases, "Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?" and puts it to the test against the historical case for the resurrection of Jesus. - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠

Blessed Triduum, friends. To ring in Holy Week and soon the Easter season philosopher and theologian Dr. Trent Dougherty is here to make the case that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is not just a matter of faith it's historically defensible. Using the "Three E's" framework (Empty Tomb, Eyewitnesses, and Early Creeds), he walks through why secular scholars and believers alike have strong rational grounds for concluding that the Resurrection actually happened. Pints: Last Call Ep. 8 - - -

Father Simon Esshaki, a Chaldean Catholic priest from San Diego with over 500K TikTok followers joins Matt to talk about why he became a priest, what celibacy actually means, confession and how to pursue sainthood no matter your state in life. Ep. 572 - - -

It's Last Call! Catholic apologist, Joe Heschmeyer, is back to absolutely DESTROY Mormonism (in a nice way) alongside host, Matt Fradd.  Pints: Last Call Ep. 7 - - -

This episode's mature themes may not be suitable for children. Catholic philosopher and epistemologist, Dr. Trent Dougherty, joins Pints to tackle the age-old question: what does it even mean to know something? The conversation weaves between rigorous philosophical debate - Descartes, Gettier, justified true belief and vulnerable personal territory where Dougherty shares his battles with the inner demons that plagued his pursuit of success.  Ep. 571 - - -

It's Last Call! Matt Fradd is taking voicemails and sitting down with Sr. Mary Rachel Capets to discuss how to hear God's voice and know what you're meant to do with your life.  Pints: Last Call Ep. 6 - - -

Martin Shaw is a mythologist, storyteller, and New York Times bestselling author of Liturgies of the Wild: Myths That Make Us. Together, Matt and Martin discuss the power of fairy tales, the need for a quest, and a profound 101 night vigil in the woods that lead Shaw to Christianity. Whisky and cigars included. Ep. 570 - - -

It's Last Call! Catholic biblical scholar, Dr. Brant Pitre, is back to absolutely DESTROY heretical TikTokers (in a nice way) with Last Call host, Matt Fradd. Pints: Last Call Ep. 5

Catholic apologist, Brian Holdsworth, joins Matt Fradd to discuss Pope Leo's papacy, the loss of modesty in today's culture as well as the current attrition rate in the church, how to raise families in authentic community, and the role classical literature plays in human formation.  Ep. 569 -- -- –

In today's Last Call, Matt Fradd lays out the "Islamic Dilemma." He then sits down with Father Jason Charron to discuss the growing phenomenon of Muslims converting to Christianity. Together they announce an upcoming pilgrimage opportunity to journey to the Seven Churches of Revelation. Join them in Turkey October 27 - November 6, 2026! 

Dr. Thomas Madden, Professor of Medieval History and Director of the Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies at Saint Louis University, sits down to set the record straight on the Crusades. Demystifying one of history's most misunderstood chapters. Dr. Madden draws on 30 years of scholarship and archival work to trace the full arc of the Crusades from their origins in centuries of Muslim expansion to the catastrophic Fourth Crusade's sack of Constantinople. Whether you think the Crusades were an act of aggression, piety, or geopolitical chaos, this conversation will challenge what you thought you knew. Ep. 568 Dr. Thomas Madden's book "The Concise History of the Crusades" is available here: https://a.co/d/0jjYdCFm - - - Today's Sponsors: St. Paul Center - Join the Bible Study movement alongside a global community. Sign up today at https://stpaulcenter.com/pints PreBorn - Make a difference for generations to come. Donate securely online at https://preborn.com/PINTS or dial #250 keyword 'BABY' Good Ranchers - Subscribe and get $100 off over your first three orders when you use code PINTS at https://GoodRanchers.com  Charity Mobile - Visit https://charitymobile.com/MATTFRADD to get started. Shopify - Sign up for your $1-per-month trial and start selling today at https://Shopify.com/pints - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠

In this episode of Last Call, Matt shares his personal journey from agnostic teenager to committed Catholic, and answers your questions on the topic of conversion. Then, Matt sits down with renowned Catholic theologian, Dr. Scott Hahn, who reflects candidly on what advice he would give his 1986 self upon converting to Catholicism, including the mistakes he made with friends, family, and within his own marriage in his early zeal. Pints: Last Call Ep. 3 - - -

Catholic apologist Joe Heschmeyer stops by to discuss his debate with LDS apologist and the theological problems with LDS beliefs. Later on they discuss the toxic culture of online apologetics, dating advice and practical tips for breaking phone addiction. Ep. 567 - - - Today's Sponsors: Seven Weeks Coffee: Save up to 25% with promo code 'PINTS' at https://sevenweekscoffee.com/PINTS Cowguys - Visit https://tallowdeodorant.shop and get a beef tallow balm for free. Charity Mobile - Visit https://charitymobile.com/MATTFRADD to get started. Catholic Match - Download the app or head to https://CatholicMatch.com and find your forever. St. Paul Center - Join the Bible Study movement alongside a global community. Sign up today at https://stpaulcenter.com/pints - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠

Lent is here! Matt Fradd and Brian Holdsworth discuss the Catholic Church's teachings on fasting and how to strike the balance between challenging yourself this Lent without overcommitting. Pour yourself a drink and kick back it's, Last Call. Pints: Last Call Ep. 2

Fr. Gregory Pine, O.P. joins Matt Fradd for an in-depth conversation about Eucharistic miracles, the real presence of Christ, and the spiritual life. Fr. Pine shares his research on miraculous hosts that have turned to human heart tissue, how to detect pride and narcissism in ourselves, and offers practical wisdom on prayer, the dangers of social media, and why showing up in God's presence, even with our mess, is what Jesus desires most. Ep. 566

Introducing Last Call, an evening show with Matt Fradd for those of you that need another round. Kick back and enjoy as Fr. Gregory Pine and Matt Fradd reminisce on the various Pints sets of yore and join us in prayer as Father bestows an Epiphany blessing upon the new studio.  Pints: Last Call Ep. 1

Who was St. Valentine, and what does his feast day have to do with the commercialized holiday we celebrate today? Matt Fradd explores the fascinating (and surprisingly murky) history of the patron saint of love, sharing moving stories of his faith, courage, and martyrdom from early Church tradition. - - - Today's Sponsor: Catholic Match - Download the app or head to https://CatholicMatch.com and find your forever. - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠

Catholic apologist Trent Horn opens up about his wife's brain tumor, the toxicity plaguing online Catholic discourse, and why he now sends his scripts to critics before publishing. This wide-ranging conversation covers everything from dating culture and Gen Z struggles to practical advice for Protestants considering Catholicism. A candid, honest discussion about faith, suffering, and how to evangelize with both truth and love. Ep. 565

In this restless world, satisfaction is fleeting. Rather than chasing after success and validation, what if we began pursuing meaning and refuge? John invites Matt Fradd, noted author and host of the Pints With Aquinas podcast, to discuss how our lives would radically change if we took Christ seriously, stopped seeking false comforts, and found our true refuge in Jesus.Show Notes: The books referenced are Jesus Our Refuge by Matt Fradd, The Porn Myth by Matt Fradd, Restored by Matt and Cameron Fradd, and The Dumb Ox by G. K. Chesterton. Robert Barron's video on St. Thomas Aquinas can be found on his website, WordOnFire.org. Keywords: Wild at Heart, Matt Fradd, Christian, Podcast_______________________________________________There is more.Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Ask us at Questions@WildatHeart.orgSupport the mission or find more on our website: WildAtHeart.org  or on our app.Apple: Wild At Heart AppAndroid: Wild At Heart AppWatch on YouTubeThe stock music used in the Wild at Heart podcast is titled “When Laid to Rest” by Patrick Rundblad and available here.More pauses available in the One Minute Pause app for Apple iOS and Android.Apple: One Minute Pause AppAndroid: One Minute Pause App

Sister Mary Rachel, OP, Director of Novices for the Nashville Dominicans, joins Pints With Aquinas host Matt Fradd to discuss how to identify your vocation, obedience to your call, and what to do if you haven't found yours yet. Sister provides a joyful and peaceful witness to the beauty and importance of female religious life as part of a healthy Church. Ep. 564

In a rare virtual episode His Excellency Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Maria Santissima in Astana, Kazakhstan joins Pints With Aquinas host, Matt Fradd, to discuss his private meeting with Pope Leo XIV, the war on the Latin Mass, Europe's demographic transformation, and why young people are flooding back to traditional Catholicism. His Excellency delivers powerful and unflinching analysis of the Catholic Church's current crisis while offering profound hope for the future. Ep. 563 - - -

Daniel Suazo @thejewishcatholic, joins Pints With Aquinas host, Matt Fradd, to share his extraordinary journey from Judaism to the Catholic Church. Daniel, who lives in Tokyo, Japan, discusses his Jewish heritage, his deep dive into Judaism, and the theological discoveries that ultimately led him to Christ. This episode explores the connections between ancient Judaism and Catholicism, common misconceptions about the Talmud, Christian Zionism and dispensationalism, and how Catholics can better evangelize their Jewish friends.  Ep. 562 - - -

Dr. Brant Pitre joins Host of Pints With Aquinas, Matt Fradd to present compelling historical evidence for the reliability of the New Testament, Jesus' claims to divinity, and the resurrection. Drawing from ancient manuscripts, Jewish prophecy, and Old Testament fulfillment, Dr. Pitre makes a powerful case for Christianity for believers and skeptics alike. Ep. 561 - - - Today's Sponsors: Catholic Match - Download the app or head to ⁠https://CatholicMatch.com⁠ and find your forever. PrayR Group - Buy your chaplet today at ⁠https://chaplet.shop⁠ The first 500 orders get a St. Joseph chaplet free. Limited time only. St. Paul Center - Join the Bible Study movement alongside a global community. Sign up today at ⁠https://StPaulCenter.com/Lent⁠ Cowguys - Search ⁠https://cowguys.shop⁠ to grab two bottles of moisturizer for the price of one. - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe - - -

As signs of Christian revival swell in the U.S., the popular Catholic podcast Pints With Aquinas is joining the DailyWire+ lineup! Host Matt Fradd meets us in studio to answer the “who, what, when” questions about his show, the culture, and his personal journey to faith. Get the facts first with Morning Wire. - - - Ep. 2560 - - - Wake up with new Morning Wire merch: https://bit.ly/4lIubt3 - - - Today's Sponsor: Daily Wire Shop - Visit https://dailywire.com/shop today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Flannel Panel year in review! Questions Covered: 02:50 – Did Catholics win the internet in 2025? 05:00 – Matt Fradd joining Daily Wire 28:45 – Growth of Church in USA

To most, the Incarnation is so familiar that we have lost touch with what a scandal the manger would have been in its time. In this Advent and Christmas episode, Matt Fradd welcomes Biblical scholar, Dr. Scott Hahn, to examine prophetic texts of the Old Testament that lay the ground for the arrival of the Christ child, covenants that prepared the way, and the earth shattering reality of God becoming an embryo. Together they uncover the layers and depth of the Christmas scriptures and God's plan for you, while exploring typology, the significance of Mary's role in salvation history, and the meaning of the manger. Ep. 00 - - - Today's Sponsor: Exodus 90 - Download the Exodus 90 app to start your 14-Day free trial or visit https://Exodus90.com/matt to learn more. - - - Get 40% off the Ignatious Catholic Study Bible now HERE: https://stpaulcenter.com/store/ignatius-catholic-study-bible-old-and-new-testaments - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Friendly Fire returns for episode two with Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, and Andrew Klavan with no script, no moderator, and absolutely no plan. Watch as four of the most trusted voices in conservative media debate, discuss, and disagree while the entire internet watches and comments in real time, plus a special appearance from our newest Daily Wire host, Matt Fradd. - - - Today's Sponsor: Shopify - Sign up for your $1-per-month trial and start selling today at https://Shopify.com/FIRE Dose - New customers can save 35% on your first month of subscription by going to https://dosedaily.co/FRIENDLYFIRE or entering FRIENDLYFIRE at checkout. PreBorn! - Donate today and help save babies from abortion at https://preborn.com/FIRE or dial #250 keyword 'BABY' - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Ben in the studio for an incredible conversation on what it means to balance faith and reason. Matt Fradd is a Catholic apologist and the host of the popular podcast, "Pints with Aquinas." Fradd is an eloquent defender of the Catholic faith and a champion of civil discourse around even the most contentious topics, from cultural analysis to religious philosophy. In this flashback episode, we dissect ideas like toxic skepticism, the West's normalization of sin, what it means to be “free” and compare the ritual similarities between Catholicism and Judaism. Enjoy! - - - Today's Sponsor: PDS Debt - You're 30 seconds away from being debt-free with PDS Debt. Get your free assessment and find the best option for you at https://PDSDebt.com/shapiro.  - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices