The Most Interesting People I Know

Alexander Zaitchik is a freelance journalist and author with work in The New Republic, The Nation, The Guardian, and elsewhere. Zaitchik has written two books, one about Glenn Beck and another exploring Trump's America. He's working on a third, out in January 2022, called Owning the Sun: A People's History of Monopoly Medicine, from Aspirin to Covid-19.  This episode is about one of the most important stories in the world right now: global vaccine production and distribution. Alex wrote a long-form investigation in the New Republic called “How Bill Gates Impeded Global Access to Covid Vaccines”, which goes deep into the global intellectual property paradigm that is limiting vaccine production and the people who defend it.   We recorded this episode before the US announced support for some kind of waiver on vaccine patents. It's important to note that the US did not back the TRIPS waiver proposed by South Africa and India in October 2020. The US is also reportedly concerned that sharing information would undermine American competitiveness with China and Russia in biopharmaceuticals. The idea that it would be bad if more countries developed the ability to make advanced vaccines is emblematic of the harms of prioritizing profit-making in an industry so essential to human wellbeing. A source in the Biden administration also said the negotiations are expected to take months.  Last Thursday, the Gates Foundation reversed course and supported a temporary suspension of IP rights on Covid vaccines. The Foundation's statement cites the number of cases in Brazil and India as a reason to support the suspension. But Bill Gates was pushing against any efforts to suspend IP protections right until the US supported some kind of waiver. Gates' firm position for over a year has been that IP protections play zero role in limiting vaccine supply, but now his foundation supports suspending those protections because we need to increase vaccine supply so badly. Either Gates recently came across some really persuasive evidence, or public opinion actually can still matter. As I record this, India is being ravaged by Covid. Yesterday, nearly 400,000 new cases were reported, a number which almost certainly represents a small fraction of true cases. Less than 10 percent of the country has received even one dose of vaccine. Hospitals and crematoria alike are overwhelmed and there is an acute shortage of wood due to the sheer number of deaths. Domestic policy failures of the Modi government play a big role in this story, but so too do the choices of pharmaceutical firms and their client governments like the United States and other rich countries. We cover a lot of ground and dispel a lot of myths propagated by the pharmaceutical industry.  We specifically discuss:  Gates' heavily managed perception as a do-gooder His approach to public health and what opportunities it forecloses How Gates' ideological investments run deeper than his financial ones The affirmative case for IP protections in drug development  The problems with that case Alternative models of incentivizing drug development The incentives the current system creates  A brief history of drug development in the US How the US military developed a majority of successful vaccines made in the 20th century The story of South Africa and AIDS drugs The TRIPS waiver proposal Whether it's true that IP is the reason we aren't maximizing vaccine production  Moderna's empty promise to not enforce their patents The argument that profit motives haven't been strong enough  The PR boon vaccines have been for big pharma What a fully public response could have looked like A response to Gates' argument that IP is necessary for quality control  How a tech billionaire became the de facto global public health czar The role he really plays in the public health space  I think this is one of the most important episodes of the show so far. So much rides on whether governments make decisions that prioritize global public health, even if they come at the expense of the profits of one industry.  Buy Alex's book in January 2022.    Alex's writing: How Bill Gates Impeded Global Access to Covid Vaccines No Vaccine in Sight Moderna's Pledge Not to Enforce the Patents on Their COVID-19 Vaccine Is Worthless   Links: They Pledged to Donate Rights to Their COVID Vaccine, Then Sold Them to Pharma Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?' TRIPS waiver: there's more to the story than vaccine patents Myths of Vaccine Manufacturing Views from a vaccine manufacturer: Q&A - Abdul Muktadir, Incepta Pharmaceuticals; Pandemic Treaty Action Video of Gates responding to criticism of his push to close-source the Oxford vaccine

Tobias Leenaert is the author of How to Create a Vegan World: a Pragmatic Approach, which has been translated into five languages. He is the cofounder of ProVeg International, which aims to reduce the consumption of animal products by 50% by 2040. Tobias also writes the Vegan Strategist blog, where he shares strategies for convincing people to reduce their animal product consumption.    We discuss:  the difference between pragmatism and idealism in animal advocacy why intentions matter less than we think “vegalomania” and whether a vegan diet is really the healthiest when behavior change leads belief change how vegetarians reduce almost as much harm as vegans how reducetarian do more for animals than vegans how much easier it's gotten to be vegan veganism's bad brand and why so many people hate on vegans a thought experiment for vegans why strict veganism can be counterproductive how you can help animals without being a vegan or vegetarian where analogies between animal agriculture and other crimes break down how to be an effective animal advocate what he's most looking forward to I think this episode is useful for both vegetarians and vegan activists and people who are interested in consuming less animal products but aren't sure how.   Links: Vegetarians reducing almost as much suffering as vegans 60% of veggies ate meat in last 24 hrs MOST AMERICANS DIDN'T APPROVE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. BEFORE HIS DEATH, POLLS SHOW Chomsky on the lack of early meaningful opposition to the Vietnam war Rules for Radicals

Conor Oberst is one of the most prolific singer-songwriters of the last twenty years. Best known for his work with Bright Eyes, Oberst has also collaborated with Flea, Jim James, Alt-J, and Phoebe Bridgers. His most recent song, “Miracle of Life”, featuring Bridgers, raised money for Planned Parenthood and opposed Trump's nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court.  Oberst sat for an interview with me this fall as the first in a series for Jacobin. An edited and condensed transcript can be found here. We talked a bit about politics (Oberst made public stances against the Iraq War and supported Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020) and a lot about music.  I've been a big fan of Bright Eyes and Conor's solo work for years now, so it was a real treat to get to chat with him.  Be sure to check out Bright Eyes's first album in 9 years, Down in the Weeds, Where the World Once Was. As always, you can find me on Twitter @GarrisonLovely 

David Shor is a data scientist and the former head of political data science for Civis Analytics, a Democratic think tank. In 2012, he developed the Obama campaign's in-house election forecasting system, which accurately predicted the outcome to within a point in every state. David was the subject of some controversy this summer when he was fired following his tweeting of an academic paper. The paper argued that violent protests decreased Democratic presidential vote share while nonviolent protests increased vote share. Unfortunately, David is not at liberty to discuss the details of this incident, which is an excellent example of what happens when employment protections don't exist.  I want to state up front that the focus of this episode is on how to improve the electoral prospects of Democrats, which is David's expertise. I have many disagreements with the Democratic party and its leaders, and there are many pathways to power beyond electoral politics. But America's political institutions are extremely powerful, and ensuring that they are controlled by the non-death cult party is important.    We discuss: What happened in the 2020 election  Why the electoral college is biased towards Republicans  Efforts to combat structural bias against the Democratic party Why the polls were wrong again and why they'll be very hard to fix Why Bernie would have won in 2016 but may not have in 2020 How Democratic staffers and left wing activists are massively unrepresentative of the American public The electoral obstacles to passing Medicare for All and how to make the policy more politically popular  Policies that combat inequality without raising taxes Whether Democrats actually want to win Why Democrats need the working class to win power  Why good politicians stay relentlessly on message How we can move voters towards policy positions we think are just Why Democrats should talk more about issues and less about values What we can learn from the growth in support for same sex marriage The importance of getting the media on your side Links: National Popular Vote Interstate Compact Matt Grossman on Twitter David Shor on Twitter

Trevor Beaulieu is the host of the podcast Champagne Sharks, a “podcast about race, politics, and pop culture, through the lenses of humor and psychology.” The show has released over 300 episodes on a huge range of topics, from Afro-pessimism and social justice, to Marvel movies and Tumblr. I've only scratched the surface of the show, but have really enjoyed the episodes I've listened to so far. Check out the show notes for a few of my favorites. Trevor's many appearances on Chapo Trap House are also well worth a listen.  You can find Trevor on Twitter: @rickyrawls and Champagne Sharks: @champagnesharks. I'm on Twitter @garrisonlovely. You can check out Champagne Sharks wherever you find podcasts, and you can subscribe at  https://www.patreon.com/champagnesharks    On today's episode we discuss:  Our experience with the pandemic so far The insanity that is the US stock market during covid Why Trevor thinks black people can't afford to be totally anti-capitalist The distinctions between social democracy and socialism Trevor's firsthand experience with racism in scandinavia  How fragile any kind of liberal democracy is How Trevor started Champagne Sharks How Chapo Trap House is like the Daily Show for new left podcasts The willingness to look into the political abyss How the right prioritizes property over people's lives The recent uprisings over police violence against black people Whether nonviolent protests are more effective Why Killmonger from Black Panther was right   A few of my favorite Champagne Sharks episodes: CS 238: Is The Whole Internet Becoming 4Chan? Pt. 1 feat. Dale Beran (01/23/2020) CS 186: Tumblr Brain feat. Jaya Sundaresh (@shutupjaya) (06/20/2019)` CS 272: Karens (Hard-R) With Attitude feat. Nashwa Khan pt. 1 CS 276: The Futureless Now feat. Matt Christman pt. 1 CS 274: After the Bern feat. Felix Biederman pt. 1 CS 282: Live, Love, Work and Catastrophe feat. Rob Delaney CS 284: Clarence Thomas and The Reactionary Mind Pt. 1 feat. Corey Robin CS 280: Afropessimism feat. Frank Wilderson III *DOUBLE EPISODE*   Show notes: Why the stock market is divorced from the pain of a pandemic economy What if ‘Herd Immunity' Is Closer Than Scientists Thought? Video showed police thank (Kyle Rittenhouse) & give him water prior to the killings Wage Theft vs. Other Forms of Theft in the U.S. The 1968 Kerner Commission Got It Right, But Nobody Listened The Protesting of a Protest Paper

Ross Barkan is an award-winning journalist and former political candidate. Ross ran for state senate in Brooklyn in 2018 (where he was endorsed by AOC). He is back to full-time journalism, with a column in the Guardian and frequent contributions to the Nation and Gothamist. He also has work in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the New Yorker, New York Magazine, and the Columbia Journalism Review. In both 2017 and 2019, he was the recipient of the New York Press Club's award for distinguished newspaper commentary. He now teaches journalism at NYU and St. Joseph's College. He also created a popular newsletter, Political Currents, on New York and national affairs.  As always, links to his work will be found in the show notes. Ross's Substack newsletter, Political Currents, is an amazing font of information on New York City politics.  In today's episode, we discuss:  His experience running for state senate, the curse of fundraising, and how running for office destroys your social life, how small dollar digital fundraising is fueling left wing candidates, what a DSA endorsement means and why Ross thinks he didn't get it, why he thinks he didn't win, what you should consider when deciding whether to run for office, how De Blasio and Cuomo bungled New York's COVID response, how Cuomo refuses to raise taxes on the wealthy, the lack of any meaningful action to reduce the power of the NYPD, why Ross doesn't support police abolition and why we think the case for prison abolition is stronger, Bernie's loss and the progress the left has made in recent years, and the very exciting election of five DSA-endorsed candidates to statewide political office in New York More about Ross: www.rossbarkan.com Political Currents newsletter https://twitter.com/RossBarkan  Links: Seattle's Leaders Let Scientists Take the Lead. New York's Did Not https://makebillionairespay.info/  Was the NYPD Budget Cut by $1 Billion? Reasonable Doubt: A New Look at Whether Prison Growth Cuts Crime Ross's piece on prosecutors in the Baffler: Exterminating Angels: The American myth of the progressive prosecutor Tiffany Cabán Eyes City Council Run, Will Launch Campaign Thursday  

Charlie Bresler is the Executive Director of the Life You Can Save, a nonprofit founded by Peter Singer that inspires and empowers people to take action in the fight against extreme poverty.  Charlie was previously the president of the Men's Warehouse and a professor of clinical psychology. Later in the episode, we dig into Charlie's path from psychology, to men's fashion, to fighting global poverty. The inspiration for this episode is the release of the 10th anniversary edition of the book The Life You Can Save by Peter Singer. The book offers an overview of the intensity of global poverty and the related human suffering and makes a compelling case to donate more to more effective charities. Contrary to popular belief, there are charities that have proven track records of delivering effective interventions, some of which can save a child's life for less than two thousand dollars. The new edition of the Life You Can Save is available for free in e-book and audiobook format. The audiobook is read by a number of celebrities, including Kristen Bell, Paul Simon, and Stephen Fry. In addition to the book, we discuss: Where The Life You Can Save is now, the shallow pond thought experiment, the myth that we don't know what works in global poverty and health, why an "empathy fund" may be more sustainable, framing effective giving as an opportunity vs. an obligation, why being a doctor doesn't do as much good as we think, how Charlie's democratic socialism informs his life, why EAs aren't as radical you might expect them to be.  If you're familiar with Effective Altruism, I'd recommend skipping to about 35 and a half minutes in. Most of the ideas we discuss for the bulk of the episode are probably familiar to you, but you may be interested in our conversation on the intersection of EA and radical politics.    Show notes: Famine, Affluence, and Morality Over 5M children die before they turn 5 each year The Moral Imperative toward Cost-Effectiveness in Global Health The Limits of Power  The Politics of War: The World and United States Foreign Policy, 1943-1945 The World the Slaveholders Made: Two Essays in Interpretation Woman, Culture, and Society American Power and the New Mandarins Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky Dystopia in Fiction and in Fact: How “Nineteen Eighty-Four” teaches us the wrong lessons about dictatorship… Hozier's new protest song Jackboot Jump Homage to Catalonia Politics and the English Language   You can reach out to Charlie directly at: Charlie@thelifeyoucansave.org

Edgar Villanueva is a globally-recognized expert on social justice philanthropy. He serves as Chair of the Board of Directors of Native Americans in Philanthropy. Edgar currently serves as Senior Vice President at the Schott Foundation for Public Education where he oversees grant investment and capacity building for education justice campaigns across the United States. He is also the award-winning author of Decolonizing Wealth, a bestselling book offering hopeful and compelling alternatives to the dynamics of colonization in the philanthropic and social finance sectors.  In addition to working in philanthropy for many years, Edgar has consulted with numerous nonprofit organizations and national and global philanthropies on advancing racial equity inside of their institutions and through their investment strategies. We spend most of our conversation on Edgar's book, specifically:  How he became disillusioned with the philanthropy sector, America's refusal to engage with its history of colonialism and racism, the coloniser's mindset and how it ties to contemporary philanthropy, how people of color are left out of philanthropic spending, the 5% foundation payout requirement and why most foundation money is parked in investment accounts, a call to transfer capital back to impoverished communities, poverty in precolonial times, the potlatch ceremony, a challenge to the thesis of Decolonizing Wealth from an effective altruism perspective, the problem with the term altruism, the problems that are solved by just giving people money with no strings attached, shifting the power and choice from donors to the people they're trying to help, the ties between capitalism and white supremacy, and how to learn more and join the Decolonizing Wealth giving circle Near the end of the episode we had some audio drop out, did what I could to piece things back together and didn't end up losing too much, but there are some awkward cuts.  If you'd like to learn more about the book visit decolonizingwealth.com. You can find Edgar on Twitter at @VillanuevaEdgar and me at @GarrisonLovely. If you'd like to get in touch directly, you can email me at mostinterestingpeople27 [at] gmail [dot] com.   Show notes: Report: 72% of Americans rarely encounter or receive information about Native Americans Decolonizingwealth.com

Akash Mehta is a writer and organizer from New York. He is a member of the New York City Democratic Socialists of America and helped organize UChicago for Bernie. Akash recently wrote a great article for Jacobin called Even in a Pandemic, Andrew Cuomo Is Not Your Friend. Governor Cuomo has received a lot of good press for his handling of the coronavirus crisis in New York, but his past and present decisions have made the state less prepared for this ongoing calamity. We discuss those decisions in great detail as well as: Why Cuomo is popular and trusted right now, how his "get things done" brand obscures real ideological differences between him and the Left, why ideology does influence the response to the coronavirus, Milton Friedman's keen understanding of the politics of crises, the links between Biden and Cuomo, how Cuomo empowered Republicans in New York to kneecap progressives in his own party, his plan to cut Medicaid by billions due to his unwillingness to increase taxes on the wealthy, how he blames private hospitals for not having enough ICU beds, even though he played a substantial role in cutting 20k beds in the state, why we should provide free healthcare for all conditions, not just the coronavirus, Cuomo's prioritization of homeowners over renters, the choice we face between prioritizing the needs of the market over the needs of people, a call to join political membership groups like the DSA or the Sunrise movement, what you can do to influence the New York State budget, a plan for a left news site devoted to New York City politics, and my thoughts on the intersection between Effective Altruism and the Left. As we discuss near the end of the episode, the changes Cuomo is pushing are part of a state budget that is due on March 31st. Cuomo has responded to public pressure by releasing people incarcerated for technical parole violations and may cave to pressure to reject these cuts. You can contact his office using this form and/or calling at 1-518-474-8390. If you live in New York, you can find your state senator and assembly member here: https://openstates.org/find_your_legislator/ Calls to their offices opposing these cuts and supporting the proposals in #makebillionairespay could help influence billions of dollars in funding to people in great need. The site for #makebillionairespay also has guidance on how to effectively pressure your representatives: https://makebillionairespay.info/take-virtual-action You can reach out to Akash at akvmehta [at] gmail [dot] com. As always, you can find me on Twitter @GarrisonLovely and reach out to the show at mostinterestingpeople27 [at] gmail [dot] com Show notes Milton Friedman's quote: “Only a crisis - actual or perceived - produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes the politically inevitable.” How Obama Failed: On every level, the Obama administration couldn't break with neoliberalism. We're living with its failures today. Everything Has Changed Overnight: The Democratic primary is no longer over. This is a historic crisis requiring nothing less than FDR-style ambition and leadership. We've got just the guy. Lancet Medicare for All Study analysis (link to original study is dead…) Andrew Cuomo's Treatment of Prisoners Reveals He's Leaving Some At-Risk New Yorkers Behind Cuomo orders 1,100 parole violators released from jails over coronavirus concerns Effective Altruism survey The NYC DSA's excellent weekly email newsletter The Thorn

CONTENT WARNING: This episode includes descriptions of racially-motivated violence.  Zach Roberts is a photo and video journalist whose work has been published on the cover of the New York Daily News, The Observer, The Guardian and on the inside of the New York Times, TheNation.com, Al Jazeera, Washington Post, Buzzfeed and Newsweek, among others.   For the past 10 years, Zach's been on the trail covering social movements, investigating election theft and corporate crime, and most recently tracking white extremism.  Some notable events and stories he's covered are Ferguson, Occupy Wall Street, the Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, and over a dozen different Trump rallies. Zach has been beaten and trampled at Occupy, arrested, and had guns pointed at him in Ferguson and Charlottesville.  During our conversation we cover: His experience with Bloomberg's NYPD during Occupy Wall Street, the legacy of that movement, how the media fails to cover protests correctly, Zach's breakup with Ralph Nader, his experience documenting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, his photos of a brutal beating committed by white extremists, which contributed to a number of convictions, how the police completely failed to protect and serve in Charlottesville, the experience of covering white extremist groups, how the police have changed since Trump took office, how the media ignores stories that actually matter, the almost massacre in Richmond Virginia, white nationalist killings that aren't classified as such, and how you can be an effective anti-fascist. You can find Zach on Twitter: @ZDRoberts and support his Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/zdroberts. His portfolio can be found on his website: https://www.zdroberts.com/ You can find me on Twitter: @GarrisonLovely and email the show at mostinterestingpeople27 [at] gmail [dot] com   Show notes: Greg Palast's work 15 Years Ago, Protesters Took Over NYC During 2004 Republican National Convention The Problem with “Broken Windows” Policing Bloomberg's disgraceful eviction of Occupy Wall Street Video: NYPD Uses Pepper Spray, Force On Wall Street Occupiers Occupy Wall Street's Legacy Runs Deeper Than You Think Hunting Season on Voters Opens with Georgia & Wisconsin Purges Mass Registration Cancellations ordered by Courts Larry Summers and the Secret “End-Game” Memo Obama's Lost Army Why Is the U.S. Green Party So Irrelevant? Zach's coverage of Unite the Right at Charlottesville The Significance of J20 A New Face of White Supremacy: Plots Expose Danger of the ‘Base' https://first-vigil.com/  How Stephen Miller Manipulates Donald Trump to Further His Immigration Obsession The Making of a YouTube Radical

Malaika Jabali is an attorney, activist, and writer based in New York. She is a contributing writer to Essence Magazine and a frequent contributor to the Guardian. Her work also appears in Current Affairs, Jacobin, the Intercept and elsewhere. Malaika is my first returning guest, and I was very happy to have her back. Since we last spoke, she has written extensively about the 2020 candidates and deepened the reporting that began with her excellent Current Affairs feature The Color of Economic Anxiety. That article won the award for best General Feature from the New York Association of Black Journalists. Last week, Malaika released her first film, Left Out, which challenges many of the assumptions about what working class midwesterners want out of their politics. The 8 minute film is available for free on YouTube and well worth your time. We discuss it as well as:  How economic anxiety can depress voter turnout, the underrated importance of people who voted for Obama but didn't turn out in 2016, assumptions made about midwesterners, the myth of the moderate Democrat, Malaika's advice for 2020 candidates, the lack of diversity in early primary states and how it impacts the nominating process, why black voters don't like Pete Buttigieg, Joe Biden's implosion, Bernie's campaign and rhetoric around race, whether Bernie is a class reductionist, how he could be better at speaking to the intersections of race and class, identity politics as it was originally conceived and how it has been misappropriated, the false choice between emphasizing identity based oppression and solidarity, and the lack of representation in socialist groups like the DSA. You can find Malaika on Twitter: @MalaikaJabali and me: @GarrisonLovely I've also created an email address for the show. I welcome any feedback, guest ideas, or just a hello at mostinterestingpeople27 [at] gmail [dot] com    Show notes: Malaika's work: The Color of Economic Anxiety bit.ly/LeftOut2020 Pete Buttigieg has a race problem. So does the Democratic party   Other links: Economic anxiety vs racial resentment: Time to Kill the Zombie Argument: Another Study Shows Trump Won Because of Racial Anxieties — Not Economic Distress No, It Wasn't Just Racism The Missing Obama Millions For elites, politics is driven by ideology. For voters, it's not. Black Futures Lab Census Most Iowa Democratic caucus-goers support a single-payer health-care plan Experiments show this is the best way to win campaigns. But is anyone actually doing it? How Bernie Sanders Evolved on Criminal Justice Reform Joe Biden: “I love kids jumping on my lap” Phillip Agnew's 'With These Hands' – Powerful Bernie Rally Moment The force of Operation POWER

Meagan Day is a staff writer at Jacobin magazine. Her work has also appeared in The New York Times, The Guardian, Vox, Mother Jones, The Week, The Baffler, In These Times, n+1, and elsewhere. Her nonfiction book Maximum Sunlight was excerpted in the Best American Nonrequired Reading 2017. She has co-authored a book with Micah Uetricht called Bigger than Bernie: How We Go from the Sanders Campaign to Democratic Socialism. Look for it in late April. Today, we make the case for Bernie Sanders: why he is the most electable candidate and the one we should be most excited about. We dig into the data and the theory behind why a Bernie nomination would likely lead to a Bernie presidency. We also discuss why the case for Joe Biden's electability falls apart and address some of the strongest arguments against Bernie.  We spend the first 13 or so minutes discussing the allegation that Bernie told Elizabeth Warren that a woman couldn't win the presidency. If you're familiar with this dispute, feel free to skip ahead.  If this episode inspires you, you can get involved by visiting berniesanders.com/volunteer. Of course you can also make a donation at berniesanders.com. There is also the BERN app which helps you build grassroot support among your friends and family. Find the app at app.berniesanders.com We're entering the most critical period of the Democratic primary. The winner of the Iowa caucus on February 3rd is likely to become the Democratic nominee, so if you've been on the sidelines, now's the best time to get involved.    Show notes: Meagan's writing: How an Anti-Sexist Candidate Got Smeared as Sexist Bernie Is the Candidate Who Can Beat Trump. Here's Why. Bernie Sanders Believes in Mass Politics — Something the New York Times Can't Wrap Their Minds Around Social Security and Medicare Are Not Safe With Joe Biden

Ben Burgis is a philosopher and logician who lectures at Rutgers University. He has a segment on the Michael Brooks Show called the Debunk and writes a weekly column for Jacobin magazine. We spend most of the show talking about his book Give Them an Argument: Logic for the Left, which challenges the left to take logic more seriously.  Ben's Twitter: https://twitter.com/benburgis?lang=en And Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/benburgis   We also discuss: The aesthetic of reason being adopted to defend bad arguments, why the left needs to make better arguments for their positions, the limits of logic in persuading people whose material interest differ from ours, why left principles for redistribution don't stop at our borders, conflict vs mistake theory in explaining the motivations of our political opponents, and where each theory may apply, the importance of interpreting our allies' arguments charitably, Ben's thoughts on moral philosophy, why tankies are bad utilitarians, double standards for Marx vs other problematic philosophers from history, Jeremy Bentham's good takes, state monopoly on violence and police reforms, where Ben disagrees with the left, the problems with a radically empirical worldview, whether utilitarianism takes you to implausible places, and how to balance epistemic humility with the need to beat confident bullshitters.   Links: Conflict vs Mistake Theory Dark Money Life expectancy going up under mao Deconstructing the ‘Ferguson Effect' (Note: I think the evidence for this is more mixed than I thought at the time of the interview) The Case for Disarming America's Police Force NEW YORK CITY VOTERS MAY EXPAND POWER OF CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD, ALLOWING IT TO INVESTIGATE POLICE WHO LIE Moral Tribes

Marcus Davis is the co-founder and lead researcher at Rethink Priorities, a nonprofit conducting foundational research on neglected causes within the Effective Altruism movement. Marcus also co-founded Charity Entrepreneurship and Charity Science Health. Rethink Priorities has put out a lot of impactful research on topics like nuclear war, invertebrate sentience, and ballot initiatives, in addition to taking on the crucial task of conduc ing the annual Effective Altruism survey. They've managed to do a lot with an annual budget of less than half a million dollars and are accepting donations. Residents in the US, UK, Canada, Germany and Switzerland can make tax-deductible donations here: https://www.rethinkpriorities.org/donate   We discuss:  Rethink Priorities' goals, how much we should worry about nuclear war, fish stocking, the promise of ballot measures for passing progressive policies and animal welfare protections, recent ballot measures on psychedelic decriminalization, determining the sentience of animals, whether octopuses are aliens, who makes up the Effective Altruism movement, how to reach people who aren't young STEM grads, how less effective interventions can still be improvements over the status quo, the ways in which EA doesn't reflect society at large and steps that could be taken to rectify that, and what Rethink Priorities can do with your money   Show notes: Luisa Rodriguez's series on nuclear war The Doomsday Machine by Daniel Ellsberg Rethink Priorities' presentation on ballot initiatives Psychedelic ballot initiatives Nagel's paper “What Is It Like to Be a Bat” Invertebrate Sentience Table David Foster Wallace's essay “Consider the Lobster” Other Minds by Peter Godfrey-Smith Octopuses may be aliens: A controversial study has a new spin on the otherworldliness of the octopus Results of the 2018 EA survey Article on GiveDirectly's disaster relief program: Google's unusual plan for disaster relief: just give survivors money Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

Rob Scott is the Executive Director of the Cornell Prison Education Program (CPEP), which he has led since 2013. Under his leadership CPEP has expanded operations from one to four prisons and now serves over 200 incarcerated students. Rob also helped form state and national coalitions for higher education in prisons. In 2016, he was recognized as one of 10 White House “Champions of Change” for his work with CPEP.  In college, I co-founded the Prison Reform and Education Project (PREP) and got to know Rob, who eventually served as our faculty adviser. As we discuss, I was also a volunteer teaching assistant with CPEP. Rob was one of the first people who came to mind when I conceived of this podcast, but has been a little busy being a new father the past few months, so this conversation was a long time coming.  We discuss: How Rob got started in prison education, how prison education has gone from boot-strapped projects done in the shadows to flagship programs supported by major universities, how the era of Pell grants in prisons was not all it's cracked up to be, how CPEP works, why crime may have declined, the power of language in our self concept, the experience of teaching in prison, a better definition of crime, the limitations of attempting to change oppressive institutions from the inside, the tenuous state of Pell grants for incarcerated people, Rob's complicated stance on prison abolition, the small “d” democratic origins of incarceration as punishment, and restorative justice and alternatives to incarceration. Rob is an incredibly thoughtful and selfless guy, and his opinions consistently surprise me. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. Links: Reasonable Doubt: A New Look at Whether Prison Growth Cuts Crime My very angry tweet thread about Bret Stephens's stupid take on the 1994 Crime Bill Games Criminals Play: How You Can Profit by Knowing Them Shane Bauer's article: My four months as a private prison guard Shane's book: American Prison Foucault's book Discipline and Punish Snopes: the somewhat true story comparing Felicity Huffman's 14 day sentence to a homeless woman's 5 year sentence for purportedly lying to get her kid into a better public school NPR: Former Physician at Rikers Island Exposes Health Risks of Incarceration

Andrés Gómez Emilsson is the Director of Research at the Qualia Research Institute (QRI). QRI aims to systematize the study of consciousness, to do to consciousness what chemistry did for alchemy. He holds a master's degree in computational psychology and an undergraduate degree in symbolic systems from Stanford University, where he co-founded the Stanford Transhumanist Association.  This is a pretty wild episode touching on some of the most important and mind-bending ideas I've ever encountered, centered around a single question: why can't we be happy all the time? We get into some pretty wacky territory but I think Andrés does a good job of making this approachable to somebody who has never encountered these ideas before.  We use the term intuition pump a few times, this is a word coined by the philosopher Daniel Dennett to describe a thought experiment that helps the thinker use their intuition to develop an answer to a problem.  We cover: Andrés's life project to overcome all the mechanisms that prevent us from being happy all the time, the hedonic treadmill, the promise of anti-tolerance drugs, the influence of genetics on our ability to be happy, how electric stimulation of the brain doesn't lead to tolerance the way drugs do, wireheading done right and wrong, three types of euphoria, the social gulf between Bay Area life-optimizers and everyone else, negative utilitarianism, the worst and best experiences humans have, the therapeutic and scientific potential for 5-meo-dmt, psychedelics as Effective Altruism's cause X, the best way to use ibogaine for treating opiate addiction, a better approach to using opiates for pain management, and why people report wacky new beliefs after ego dissolving psychedelic experiences Links: Simon and Garfunkel song: Richard Cory Andrés's article: Wireheading Done Right: Stay Positive Without Going Insane Book excerpt describing electrodes placed in the brains of mental patients in the 1950s: The Orgasmic Brain 84% of drug users who report a bad trip say they benefited from the experience NYMag: Psychedelic Mushrooms Cured My Cluster Headaches NY Public Radio interview on how Harry Anslinger started the war on drugs The Qualia Research Institute (QRI) QRI executive director Mike Johnson's blog: Opentheory.net

Matt Stoller is a fellow at the Open Markets Institute and the author of Goliath: the 100 Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy (out now!). He was previously a Senior Policy Advisor and Budget Analyst to the Senate Budget Committee and worked in Congress on financial services policy, including Dodd-Frank, the Federal Reserve, and the foreclosure crisis. Matt has written for the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Atlantic, the New Republic, and elsewhere. As we discuss, Matt had a brief excursion in Hollywood, where he was a writer and actor on a TV show with Russell Brand. You may be most familiar with Matt from his very active and entertaining Twitter feed (@mattherstoller). Goliath is a “big idea” history coming at the right time. Concentrated corporate power affects your life every day, in ways both subtle and obvious. The domination of key industries by a handful of megacorporations is not the natural or permanent state of affairs. We have successfully fought and tamed monopolies before, but have forgotten how. Goliath reminds us of the way forward.  We discuss: Matt's path from being a remorseful Iraq War supporter to being a vigorous opponent of concentrated financial power, the case for and against monopoly power, the neoliberal roots of the disastrous response to the financial crisis, the link between monopoly power and fascism, dangerous and desirable monopolies, the massive state intervention in the economy during and after WWII, the proper role for finance in society, the real basis for the American dream, the impact of fair trade laws and their repeal, whether small businesses are actually any better than big ones, how the ruling class frames their rule as inevitable, the law and economics movement, the Democrats' betrayal of organized labor, the crisis of legitimacy for economics, antimonopoly's political moment, and why Obama was actually bad.  Show notes: Matt's work: When American Capitalism Meant Equality The Progressive Case Against Obama Other links: Louis Brandeis's book Other People's Money, and How the Bankers Use It (free ebook) Dark Money: the Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right Fred Dutton's NYT Obituary Obama's not as tough on mergers as you think On the Obama admin's role in the 737 Max scandal: The emerging 737 Max scandal, explained Obama Failed to Mitigate America's Foreclosure Crisis Obama officials' failure to stop the opioid crisis

Leah Garcés is the president of Mercy for Animals, one of the world's largest effective animal advocacy organizations. She was previously the executive director of Compassion in World Farming USA. Today we discuss her new book Grilled: Turning Adversaries into Allies to Change the Chicken Industry. Leah tells the remarkable story of how she teamed up with farmers to expose the world to the horrible conditions and practices in American chicken farms. As we discuss, her work with farmers, journalists, documentarians, and activists pressured chicken producers to make significant commitments to improve welfare standards for their birds.  Even if you don't care about the welfare of chickens for whatever reason, the labor conditions of the typical chicken factory farmer should be enough to outrage you. Saddled with debt and squeezed by an oligopoly of chicken producers, the typical American chicken farmer eeks out poverty wages and spends their days walking through ammonia-clogged chicken coops picking out dead birds.  Beyond these campaigns, Mercy for Animals produces a lot of other great work, like their drone footage of factory farms and the destruction of the Amazon. Specifically, we discuss: Leah's vision for how we'll relate to animals in 2050, why we should care about chickens, the evidence we have that they can suffer, conditions in a typical coop, how chickens have been bred to suffer, how Leah started working with a chicken factory farmer, the brutal economics and lifestyle of chicken farming, how the incentives conspire against the welfare of the chickens and the people farming them, Leah's work getting footage of chicken farms out to the world, her meetings with executives at chicken producers and the resulting welfare improvements, whether factory farming is the greatest moral atrocity in the world, whether factory farm executives are like war criminals, whether companies will make good on their animal welfare commitments, and her plans for Mercy for Animals.  Show notes: NYT Opinion piece Leah's work prompted: Abusing Chickens We Eat Wired article on Leah's work with Craig Watts: Hoping to Change the Industry, a Factory Farmer Opens His Barn Doors Effective Altruism Forum post: Will companies meet their animal welfare commitments? From Open Philanthropy's Lewis Bollard: Will Companies Make Good on Cage-Free Pledges?

Lyta Gold is the Amusements and Managing Editor of Current Affairs magazine. She is also the co-editor of the Current Affairs Big Book of Amusements, a full-color collection of some of the wonderful amusements that have appeared in the pages of Current Affairs, in addition to some brand new ones. The Current Affairs print edition is chock full of beautifully-illustrated activities, quizzes, lists, comics, and more that are often the brainchild of Lyta. Some example amusements: The Best Sex Positions for Conceiving an Employable Child, Is Your Feminism Angry Enough? And Which Authoritarian Will I Vote For? Lyta also appears on the Current Affairs podcast, my biggest competitor as well as my primary source of guests. On today's episode we cover: feminism, Steven Pinker, IQ, feminist Utopias, whether the patriarchy is a dead, cancel culture, Louis CK, Aziz Ansari, changing norms around consent, Joe Rogan and his new lefty guests, comedy and whether any topics are off limits, Mark Fisher's essay Exiting the Vampire's Castle, and the limits of identity politics Subscribe to Current Affairs here: https://www.currentaffairs.org/subscribe Buy the Big Book of Amusements here: https://www.currentaffairs.org/store Links: Larry David as Bernie Sanders Nathan Robinson's article on Steven Pinker On Pinker's support for the paper arguing Ashkenazi Jews were smarter because they were forced to be moneylenders: The Unwelcome Revival of ‘Race Science' My review of Pinker's book The Better Angels of Our Nature Twitter thread on Pinker's sexual assault stats in Better Angels Yes, IQ Really Matters Why is Charles Murray Odious? Lyta's Evolutionary Psychology Quiz Bernie Sanders on Joe Rogan Cornel West on Joe Rogan Rutger Bregman owning Tucker Carlson Never Again Action protest movement against ICE and CBP Jon Stewart being transphobic for laughs in 2003 Exiting the Vampire's Castle How Identity Became a Weapon Against the Left

Eric Levitz is a political analyst and Associate Editor at New York Magazine, where he writes an alarming number of “good takes” on a huge range of topics. I think Eric's columns are the rare combination of well-written and well-argued. I don't know of any political columnists who are more empirically grounded. I feel substantially better-informed having read him.  We cover:  The danger of moderation in extraordinary times, the climate crisis and the Green New Deal, how our identities inform our political choices, the time-honored Republican strategy of stoking racial fears to cling to power, why Democrats should wage a vicious class war in 2020, the fallacy of thinking about politics along one dimension, the surprising popularity of some radical left positions, the mind-numbing democratic debates, how Biden could run away with the whole thing, Bernie's decision to lean into the democratic socialist label, how Eric would describe his job, bias and the myth of objectivity in political writing, and Eric's hottest takes. Links: Eric's writing: Moderate Democrats' Delusions of ‘Prudence' Will Kill Us All Tribalism Isn't Our Democracy's Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is. Democrats Must Reach Out to Moderates in 2020 — By Waging a Vicious Class War Here's Who Won (and Lost) the Second Democratic Debate, Night One Here's Who Won (and Lost) the Second Democratic Debate, Night Two We're All ‘Socialists' Now Eric's writing at NY Mag Eric's Twitter: @EricLevitz Other links: There's now an official Green New Deal. Here's what's in it. Video: Fred Hampton on racism and capitalism Article on last place aversion: Avoiding Last Place: Some Things We Don't Outgrow VERMONT SOCIALIST PLANS MAYORALTY WITH BIAS TOWARD POOR

Lewis Bollard leads the Open Philanthropy Project's strategy for farm animal welfare. He directs roughly $30M in grants annually to nonprofits working to reduce suffering of farmed animals around the world. By virtue of his position, Lewis has deep insight into the state of the farmed animal welfare movement, which we get into in some detail. Unfortunately, there are some audio issues with this episode- Macbook Airs are the bane of my existence. Otherwise, I think this was a great conversation. Lewis is a world-class expert on this topic, and his passion for the cause is clear. We cover: Open Philanthropy's approach to ending factory farming, the scale, tractability, and neglectedness of factory farming, the transition to plant based meat alternatives, the hierarchy of suffering per calorie, whether you have to be a vegan to be an animal activist, the advocacy campaigns that Open Philanthropy is supporting, America's role in defending factory farming worldwide, whether factory farming is efficient, whether we need to end capitalism to end factory farming, the psychological challenge of seeing the horror of factory farming in everyday life, undercover farm investigations, civil disobedience and violence in fighting for animal rights, the ethics of pursuing corporate campaigns, criticisms of Open Phil's approach to farmed animal welfare, and, of course, how you can get involved. Show notes: Lewis: His Twitter: https://twitter.com/lewis_bollard His monthly newsletter  His conversation on the 80,000 Hours Podcast Effective Altruism Animal Welfare Fund Other links: Infographic showing number of animals killed on farms compared to labs and shelters Amount of animal suffering per calorie for different foods Meat and the H Word: Given the amount of suffering involved in the mass killing of animals, how is it not one of the greatest moral atrocities of our time? Hedonic Treadmill Video: Baby Pig Fresh Pork Sausage Prank At Least 3.4 Million Farm Animals Drowned in the Aftermath of Hurricane Florence Anarcho-pacificism Animal Charity Evaluators (ACE) Books: Animal Liberation Eating Animals Animal Machines

Brianna Rennix is an immigration lawyer and a Senior Editor at Current Affairs magazine. She works near the border in Dilley, Texas, helping prepare detained immigrant women for their asylum hearings. This is a job that requires you to ask people about the worst things that have ever happened to them. And if you fail, they may be deported to their death.  Immigration has been in the news a lot recently, particularly the torturous conditions immigrants are being held in. Unfortunately, a lot of this coverage isn't properly contextualized and there's a lot of misinformation about how our immigration system actually works. I've wanted to have Brianna on for a while because, as I tell her, she writes about immigration with more analytical and moral clarity than anyone else I've come across. We touch on a lot of it here, and I really encourage you to read her work on immigration that can be found in the show notes.  We cover: Brianna's work as an immigration lawyer, how Clinton and Obama laid the groundwork for Trump's immigration policies, the push and pull factors driving immigration, America's role in stoking violence in Central America, the origins of MS13 and Barrio 18, Trump's efforts to destroy the asylum process, asylum claims in theory and in practice, the intensity of asking people to relive their worst experiences day in and day out, and what you can do to help. Brianna's work: This Week in Terrible Immigration News 7-29-19 Waiting for the Holy Infant of Atocha The Case for Opening Our Borders Crammed into cells and forced to drink from the toilet – this is how the US treats migrants Things You Can Do Beyond Calling Your Congressperson Understanding the Administration's Monstrous Immigration Policies What Would Human Immigration Policy Look Like? Can We Have Humane Immigration Policy? Links: Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court, data shows A Century of U.S. Intervention Created the Immigration Crisis US Involvement in Regime Change in Latin America Polls: Most Voters Are Cool With Trump's Deportation Raids, But Not His Racist Tweets How to Create a Crisis Observing immigration court Never Again Action Video of Ihlan Omar being welcomed home ‘Nobody Opened the Door': Neighbors Rally During an ICE Raid in Houston Video: Town Of Trump Voters Angry After Local Businessman Gets Deported Movimiento Cosecha

Spencer Greenberg is a mathematician, social scientist, and entrepreneur. He received his PhD in applied math from NYU and is the founder of SparkWave, a social venture foundry. As we discuss, SparkWave has created a number of apps tackling problems like depression, anxiety, and finding participants for academic studies. Spencer also created the site www.clearerthinking.org, which offers free online tools and training programs to help users avoid bias and make better decisions. This site has a lot of fun and thought-provoking exercises. My favorites that we didn't dig into: common misconceptions, political bias test, and leaving your mark on the world. Spencer has spoken at Effective Altruism Global and been published in the New York Times. We cover: life changing questions you can ask yourself, intrinsic values, some hard problems for utilitarianism, Sparkwave's apps for anxiety and depression, how to ensure social ventures don't become evil, Effective Altruism, the profound challenge of doing good in the world, the connection between our happiness and the news, gaming Facebook for your happiness, the best legal approach to prostitution, Spencer's thoughts on fiction and nonfiction, why memorizing is underrated, and the best description of Burning Man I've heard.  When I conceived this show, Spencer was one of the first people that came to mind. As you'll soon see, he has informed and well-developed thoughts on a huge range of topics. He's changed my mind quite a few times, and I appreciate his approach to thinking through the hardest problems we face as a species.  Spencer's referenced work: Life-Changing Questions Intrinsic Values Test Spencer's presentation at Effective Altruism Global on “Value traps, and how to avoid them” Mind Ease for anxiety UpLift for depression Facebook post on humor Facebook post on 10 policies Spencer supports Other links: The 36 Questions That Lead to Love The Repugnant Conclusion Current Affairs article on Wikipedia Is it fair to say that most social programmes don't work? Peter Singer's essay Famine, Affluence and Morality What it's like to go to Burning Man for the first time

Emily Bazelon is a staff writer at the New York Times Magazine and the Truman Capote Fellow for Creative Writing and Law at Yale Law School. She is the author of Charged: the New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration. Emily is also the co-host of Slate's “Political Gabfest” podcast. She has appeared on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, Fresh Air, This American Life and pretty much all the other big shows. Needless to say, I'm grateful she took the time to come on my show.  In our discussion, we cover: The outsized and unchecked power of prosecutors in our criminal justice system, what one thing Emily would do to change that system, whether she's a prison abolitionist, Tiffany Cabán's prospects should she wins the Queens DA race, whether it's better to get progressive prosecutors in office or pursue state level reforms, what Jeffrey Epstein says about the rule of law, and Kamala Harris's record as a prosecutor and what it means for her candidacy. Shownotes: Emily's Twitter: https://twitter.com/emilybazelon Emily's work referenced: Her book Charged Kamala Harris, a ‘Top Cop' in the Era of Black Lives Matter The Charged podcast Other links: The Paradox of the Progressive Prosecutor Solitary Confinement: a Threat to Denmark's Credibility KAMALA HARRIS FAILS TO EXPLAIN WHY SHE DIDN'T PROSECUTE STEVEN MNUCHIN'S BANK Kamala Harris calls Manafort's relatively light sentence unfair

Today's guest is attorney, and writer Vanessa A Bee. Vanessa is the Social Media Editor and now Associate Editor at Current Affairs Magazine, where she runs a fiery and informative Twitter account: @curraffairs (in addition to her own: @vanessa_abee). You can also catch her on Current Affairs's wonderful podcast. On this episode, we cover: The role of social media in our politics, whether writers need to be on Twitter, Vanessa's ideological and religious journey, prison reform vs abolition, #Metoo, the boring importance of antitrust law, how standard labor contracts restrict our freedoms, the revolving door between regulators and the companies they used to regulate, and why innovation may actually be better under socialism. There are some audio issues with this episode. Some processors can't keep up with the recording software I use. I did what I could for this episode, and am looking into workarounds for future episodes.  Shownotes: Vanessa's articles: How Not to Talk About Uncomfortable Shoulder Rubs Can Penitent Sexual Predators Ever Be Granted Redemption? Court-Packing is Necessary to Save Democracy  The Rules of Monopoly Innovation Under Socialism Other links: WashPost article where Terry Cruz details his alleged sexual assault Pete Davis's Twitter thread on how all of Obama's antitrust Assistant Attorney Generals went on to work for the corporations they used to regulate

Sam Miller McDonald is pursuing a PhD at Oxford studying the intersection of energy production and political power. He's also an editor at The Trouble, a news site looking at climate change from a left perspective. In 2015, Sam co-founded ActivistLab, an online publication focused on improving social change. Sam is a prolific writer, with work in Current Affairs, the New Republic, the Baffler, In These Times, and elsewhere.  I should warn you up front that this is a bummer of a conversation, but I'm glad we had it. I found Sam to be informed and honest about the challenge before us.  We touch on: Sam's research, the problem of climate change, whether industrial agriculture is actually efficient, what would be in Sam's Green New Deal, whether cities are as good for the environment as we may think, the challenge of resettling the predicted hundreds of millions of climate refugees, dealing with the despair that climate change uniquely inspires, Extinction Rebellion, the role of nuclear power, and how you can fight climate change most effectively. Show notes: Sam's articles we discuss: The City of Tomorrow Collapse Despair Beyond Fluorescent Bulbs: 4 Things Millennials Can Do To Fight Climate Change Other stuff: Effective Altruism forum post on whether climate change is an existential risk Sam on the BBC discussing climate anxiety   Episode photo by Zbynek Burival on Unsplash

This is a special mini-episode giving a quick analysis of Tiffany Cabán's likely election to be Queens' next district attorney. This victory rivals the election of AOC in importance. Some further reading on the election:  An article I wrote for Jacobin on the significance of the race NYT coverage of the race The Nation: Tiffany Cabán is Running a Nationally Significant Race The New Yorker: Tiffany Cabán's Feminist Coalition New York Magazine: Tiffany Cabán Wants to Reimagine Criminal Justice in Queens The New York Times: Why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Endorsed a Little-Known Public Defender in Queens Jacobin interview: Tiffany Cabán Knows Who the Bad Guys Are

Today's guest is Pete Davis. Pete wears many hats. I first came across his work as the host of the podcast for the Current Affairs magazine and we met at a live taping of a show in DC. But I also came across Pete through the commencement speech he gave at Harvard last year in which he implores the audience to ignore the siren song of “keeping your options open” and instead commit your life to a worthy cause. This speech's topic and metaphor- infinitely browsing Netflix- struck a chord with our generation and a version of the speech shared by Goalcast racked up 27M views on Facebook. In no small irony, the mentions of Catholic radical Dorothy Day and unheard prisoners were left out of the success-bro Goalcast version- calls for actually committing to social justice are less popular than calls to commit to “something”.  While at Harvard Law, Pete wrote a book called Our Bicentennial Crisis, which called for reforms to the school's culture and policies with the goal of getting the majority of harvard law students pursuing public interest law. If you're at all interested in how the legal profession fails to meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of the country, Our Bicentennial Crisis is an excellent summary of the problem in addition to being a source of good ideas for solutions. Pete is now one of the founders of the Democratic Alternative, a national infrastructure to develop and promote policies that deepen democracy.  We cover Pete's many projects and whether you can be a leftist and an entrepreneur, institutionalists and insurrectionaries, how Chapo Trap House radicalized me, escaping "the David Brooks gaze", communicating the ideas of the left in many political languages, building up expertise to get the confidence to challenge those in power, how to get more out of reading the news, the importance of making political movements welcoming, and using concrete policies to bring people into the left. Show notes:  Pete's book Our Bicentennial Crisis: A Call to Action for Harvard Law School's Public Interest Mission Pete's graduation speech Article “Why is the Center for American Progress Betraying the Left?” The Democratic Alternative starter pack for public banking

Emily Anthes is a science journalist and writer based in Brooklyn. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, Nature, Scientific American, and many other outlets. She has also appeared on far more prominent shows than this one, including NPR's Fresh Air, PBS News Hour, and BBC Radio. Her 2013 book Frankenstein's Cat explores the cutting edge of bioengineered animals. We get into some pretty wild territory this episode (pun intended), covering: A few chapters from her upcoming book The Great Indoors: what our dust says about ourselves, the ideal workplace, amphibious houses, and humane prisons (if there is such a thing). We spend the bulk of our conversation on topics from her book Frankenstein's Cat, including: cloning, the tension between expensive innovations in animal treatment and more cost effective ways of helping animals, whether biodiversity matters, bringing back the wooly mammoths, sado masochistic cows, animal cyborgs, the ethics of animal testing, CRISPR babies, and human animal hybrids Show notes: A (questionable) article claiming China has been engaging in decades of eugenics (and a criticism of that article) Academic paper on the prevalence of Scandinavian pretrial solitary confinement An article I wrote about the Brooklyn jail with no heat or power The German man who asked to be eaten (warning: very gross)

Malaika Jabali is an attorney, activist, and writer based in New York. She is a contributing writer to Essence Magazine and has had her work published in Current Affairs, Jacobin, the Intercept and elsewhere. She's written on many topics including police shootings, white nationalism, black radicalism, and hip hop. She has also done excellent reporting on the dramatic declines in black voter turnout in Milwaukee during the 2016 election. Malaika makes a persuasive case that these declines help explain Hillary's loss. The real reasons for this drop are at odds with the narrative advanced by the Clinton campaign and Democratic establishment. They also chart a path forward for 2020. In addition to this reporting, we discuss: How the DNC fails to learn from its mistakes, the corrosive impact of wealth in politics and music, Bernie and race, Bonnaroo, political labels, Black Panther Fred Hampton, why Joe Biden should stick to eating ice cream, and the mysterious deaths of Ferguson protest organizers. Note that this episode was recorded before Joe Biden declared his candidacy. Malaika wrote a Jacobin piece about Biden called: Joe Biden is Not a Blue Collar Candidate. Malaika's articles we discuss: Hillary Clinton is Still Deeply Confused About What Happened in Wisconsin The Color of Economic Anxiety The Sacrifices Of Slain Black Panther Party Leader Fred Hampton And His Family Are A Lesson In Black Love Other articles and events referenced: Bernie Sanders on Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams: Many Whites Made ‘Uncomfortable' Voting for Black Candidates Bernie Sanders Campaign Announces 10 New Women Hires Bernie Eugene V Debs documentary New York Magazine article on socialists The 10 Worst Things Joe Biden Has Done in His Political Career Will Black Voters Still Love Biden When They Remember Who He Was? Bill Clinton's Crime Bill Destroyed Lives, and There's No Point Denying It Joe Biden accidentally tells a man in a wheelchair to stand up The mysterious deaths of Ferguson activists

Nathan J. Robinson is the founder and editor of Current Affairs, a left-wing print magazine based out of New Orleans. He is also the author of five books on politics. Nathan holds a law degree from Yale and is pursuing a PhD in sociology from Harvard. He also happens to be my favorite active political writer. In today's show we cover a lot, including: Current Affairs, persuading people on politics, understanding the actual positions our political opponents take and engaging with their arguments, the rhetorical strategies employed by the intellectual dark web, the claim that the left is afraid to engage with the actual ideas of the right, giving a platform to odious people, purity policing on the left, 2016 and 2020, whether Bernie should give his millions away and whether anyone should choose to be wealthy, the surprising non overlap of effective altruism and the left, the risks of quantifying values, Bernie on immigration, nationalism, Steven Pinker and the decline of violence, and why we think joining the left is the best way to influence the future in a positive direction. Show notes: Nathan's articles that we discuss: Why Bernie should give his millions away Nathan's spot on prediction of the 2016 election The immorality of wealth New York Times propaganda about immigration The Vietnam War The media's hierarchy of victims Misleading inequality statistics The real dangerous ideas Nathan's EPIC TAKEDOWNS: Sam Harris Jordan Peterson Charles Murray Steven Pinker Pete Buttigieg Ben Shapiro Other links: Dave Rubin Jordan Peterson being interviewed by Cathy Newman Book If You're an Egalitarian, How Come You're So Rich? Twitter thread on Steven Pinker's faulty sexual assault sources My article in Current Affairs on psychedelics ContraPoints on Ben Shapiro and gender pronouns My review of The Better Angels of Our Nature An Effective Altruism take on 2020 candidates   Subscribe to Current Affairs

NOTE: This is a re-release of my discussion with Chloe Cockburn. At the beginning of the episode, I make the following endorsement of Tiffany Cabán, a candidate for Queens District Attorney: On Tuesday June 25th, Queens will hold an election for District Attorney. The DA is the top prosecutor for Queens, a borough of nearly 2.4 million people. If you are inspired by this episode, I would encourage you to support Tiffany Cabán. Cabán is the only public defender running in the race- the other six candidates are career prosecutors and politicians. She is also the only candidate who is refusing corporate PAC money. The other front-runner, Melinda Katz, has taken over $150,000 from real estate players. Chloe doesn't make endorsements as a matter of policy, but a number of organizations she has directed funding towards have endorsed Caban, including Real Justice PAC, the Working Families Party, and VOCAL New York, a group that organizes formerly incarcerated people. Cabán has also received endorsements from congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and activists Cynthia Nixon and Zephyr Teachout. This will be a low-turnout election, so each donation, volunteer, and voter will have a big impact on the outcome. Prosecutors are the group most responsible for mass incarceration, but their enormous amount of power and discretion also makes them most able to end it.   You can learn more and get involved at www.cabanforqueens.com  Chloe Cockburn leads Open Philanthropy's strategic grant-making aimed at ending mass incarceration in the US. Prior to joining Open Phil, she oversaw state policy reform work for the ACLU's Campaign to End Mass Incarceration. Previously, Chloe worked with the Vera Institute and the civil rights law firm of Neufeld, Scheck and Brustin, and clerked for Judge Sifton of the Eastern District of New York. Chloe can be found on Twitter at @chloecockburn We cover: An overview of mass incarceration in the united states Open Philanthropy's approach to criminal justice reform The importance of criminal justice reform relative to other problems like global poverty and factory farming The role of rehabilitation and deterrence Why we think punishment should play no role Show notes: Wage theft vs. all other theft Books discussed: The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander The Collapse of American Criminal Justice by William Stuntz

Chloe Cockburn leads Open Philanthropy's strategic grant-making aimed at ending mass incarceration in the US. Prior to joining Open Phil, she oversaw state policy reform work for the ACLU's Campaign to End Mass Incarceration. Previously, Chloe worked with the Vera Institute and the civil rights law firm of Neufeld, Scheck and Brustin, and clerked for Judge Sifton of the Eastern District of New York. Chloe can be found on Twitter at @chloecockburn We cover: An overview of mass incarceration in the united states Open Philanthropy's approach to criminal justice reform The importance of criminal justice reform relative to other problems like global poverty and factory farming The role of rehabilitation and deterrence Why we think punishment should play no role Show notes: Wage theft vs. all other theft Books discussed: The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander The Collapse of American Criminal Justice by William Stuntz