Podcast appearances and mentions of Paul Marshall

We are continuing to study the book of James. Ps Paul explores chapter 2 and asks the great question of if our faith is visible. Genuine faith emerges from our hearts many times through every day. It honours and trusts God as we continually walk by faith.

Alex Andreou talks to investigative journalist Peter Geoghegan about the mysterious - and increasingly influential figure - the owner of GB News, Unherd, and The Spectator, Paul Marshall. ***SPONSOR US AT KO-FI.COM/QUIETRIOTPOD*** Peter's substack Democracy for Sale. It's free and you should subscribe. Peter's LRB profile of Paul Marshall. Our bookshop featuring many of the books we have featured - including Peter Goghegan's - can be found at uk.bookshop.org/shop/quietriot. Kick your X habit, finally, by using one of three Quiet Riot Bluesky Starter Packs. With one click, it will hook you up with, among many good accounts, Alex, Naomi, and Kenny. ***SPONSOR US AT KO-FI.COM/QUIETRIOTPOD*** With Naomi Smith, Alex Andreou and Kenny Campbell – in cahoots with Sandstone Global. ALEX ANDREOU'S PODYSSEY launches on the 15th of March and can be found here: APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/alex-andreous-podyssey/id1798575126 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2x7cD3HjkOyOKTF4YT5Goy?si=e7a86b762431451f AMAZON MUSIC: https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/8c996062-ef8d-42e4-9d80-5b407cb6e2e2/alex-andreou's-podyssey OVERCAST: https://overcast.fm/+ABN4Gd7AP9Q POCKET CASTS: https://pca.st/podcast/9e98d690-d812-013d-ea22-0affdfd67dbd YouTube Music: Coming Soon Or you can add it to any app, using the RSS feed: https://feeds.megaphone.fm/podyssey SUBSCRIBE OR FOLLOW NOW! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A decade ago, the hedge fund manager Paul Marshall was known as a Lib Dem donor and founder of the Ark academy chain. Now, as the owner of UnHerd, GB News and, since last September, the Spectator, he's a right-wing media tycoon. Peter Geoghegan joins Thomas Jones to discuss Marshall's transformation. He explains the ‘symbiotic relationship' between Marshall and Michael Gove, their shared connection to evangelical Christianity, and the changing shape of conservative politics in Britain.Find further reading on the episode page: https://lrb.me/marshallpodSponsored links:Use the code ‘LRB' to get £150 off Serious Readers lights here: https://www.seriousreaders.com/lrb Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This Sunday, we launched our new series, Body Works, exploring how we function and grow as the body of Christ. Ps Paul kicked off the series by sharing about the importance of being in a group. He reminded us that small groups aren't just about what we can get out of them, but what we can bring - encouragement, support, and a space to grow in faith together.

On this episode, Yoko McCarthy from the Boston Chapter and your podcast host, Paul Marshall from the Washington DC Chapter, talk about what it is like to be an AGA Chapter President. Tune in to learn more and see if you would be interested in taking on the challenge!

In this episode, we discuss the global assault on Christians and Christianity with Paul Marshall, a senior fellow at Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom. In addition to his work at Hudson Institute, Paul is also the Wilson Distinguished Professor of Religious Freedom at the Institute for Studies of Religion at Baylor University – and a research professor in political science… Paul is an expert in religious freedom and has written over 20 books on this subject. Some of his most popular works include Persecuted: The Global Assault on Christians, Silenced: How Apostasy and Blasphemy Codes Are Choking Freedom Worldwide, and Blind Spot: When Journalists Don't Get Religion.  Tune in now to discover: Why religious freedom seems to be decreasing worldwide.  How religious nationalism is lending to the persecution of Christians.  Specific countries where Christians are repressed.  What happens if you are accused of blasphemy in certain places.  To learn more about Paul and his work, click here now! Boost Your Brainpower with 15% OFF!  Fuel your mind with BrainSupreme Supplements and unlock your full potential. Get 15% OFF your order now using this exclusive link: brainsupreme.co/discount/findinggenius Hurry—your brain deserves the best! Episode also available on Apple Podcasts: http://apple.co/30PvU9C

We are starting off the new year by studying the book 1 John together. Ps Paul begins this series by looking at the first two chapters. He looks at the features John addresses of what makes a Christian and how this makes us different.

Ps Paul wraps up our In Him series encouraging us that everything we need is found in God. He also explores how our minds need to be transformed to keep us focused and open to hear from God. As Christians we keep working to remain in this zone.

The new court case tearing at the social fabric of France, did an AI chatbot have a role in the death of an American teen? And what interfaith environmentalism looks like in Indonesia.

Reach, Renew, Release

Ps Paul begins our brand-new series, ‘An Invitation'. He explores how we are called to be ambassadors for God here on Earth, and what this means for each of us. As ambassadors for God, He will protect and provide.

Ps Paul continues our latest series looking at how we can give both our money and our time. He encourages us that giving and investing into others creates opportunities for people to discover the love of God. We pray that you are blessed by this week's message.

Hoppen, Franziska www.deutschlandfunk.de, @mediasres

Send us a textBen and Adam take a look at the influence of right-wing hedge fund manager and media mogul, Paul Marshall's quiet reshaping the Church of England through financial influence. They also spotlight Gresham Kirkby, the Anglican priest who proclaimed his undying support for anarchism to the end, making him our Saint of the Week. The Surviving Church blog has some really interesting pieces on HTB, power and safeguarding.  This series, by Hatty Calbus, was particularly helpful.Fr. Gresham and the Kingdom of God by Steve BurrowsA Father and an Anarchist by Laurens OtterFather Gresham Kirkby by Kenneth LeechChristians for Palestine:InstagramFacebookEmail: christiansforpalestineuk@gmail.comSupport the Show.Everything Bread and Rosaries does will be free for everyone forever, but it does cost money to produce so if you wish to support the show on Patreon, we'd love you forever!Music credits at this link

"Hometown Heroes" on Family Life Our weekly "Hometown Heroes" feature introduces you to people who find ways to live out their faith by helping their community.  For this edition,  Paul Marshall tells you his first person story of leading the Willow Network of Pregnancy Care Centers in Central New York. He has done so for 20 years, offering information and encouragement to women and couples who face unexpected or unsupported pregnancies.           For further information: The Willow Network website is www.willownetwork.org You can hear, share or download this and other episodes of "Hometown Heroes" from www.familylife.org/newspodcasts          

In this episode, we do our first Connectable Guest Draft. Josh and Deb draft 5 people who they think would make up the perfect squad for a specific scenario. They can only choose people who have been guests on the show. The draft scenario for this episode is a zombie apocalypse. Which 5 people do they believe would give them the best chance at surviving while being chased by flesh eating monsters. The teams are below. Check out the episode to hear the reason behind the picks! TEAM DEB: 1. Lauren Johnson (16:58) 2. Paul Marshall (19:54) 3. Erin Wachter (23:29) 4. Jonna Dolinta (29:23) 5. Glenda Takimoto (32:49) TEAM JOSH: 1. Conor Manning (18:35) 2. Blake Kidwell (21:32) 3. Sherene Gruver (26:50) 4. Kenny Hill (31:24) 5. Jim Vretzos (38:24) FOLLOW US AT: Instagram: connectablepodcast YouTube: Connectable Podcast Facebook: connectablepodcast X: connectablepod TikTok: connectablepodcast ⁠ #connectablepodcast⁠

If you build God's house, He will build your house. Ps Paul shares about how God has a spot for each of us in His Church, and we can all be a part of building it. Everyone has a part that they can play to build God's house. We pray that you will be blessed by this week's message.

Ashley Baker joins me from Japan to discuss one of the lesser known classics from the prog in the 1990s. Follow us into the world of John Smith and Paul Marshall's Firekind, and get your copy from the 2000AD store. Also if you need Japanese translation services contact akt.honyaku@gmail.comYou can find a list of all the upcoming books on the Facebook page, follow the podcast on instagram, Threads, Mastodon, and BlueSky. And email me comments and suggestions to MCBCpodcast@gmail.comMusic used in this episode is Circuit Breaker by the artist Robodub. If you cannot see the audio controls, listen/download the audio file here Or Download here Right click and choose save link as to download to your computer.

Jane Martinson, author of ‘You May Never See Us Again: The Barclay Dynasty: A Story of Survival, Secrecy and Succession' is the former media editor at the Guardian and now Marjorie Deane Professor of Financial Journalism at City University. In the week the general election is called we discussed the potential takeover of The Telegraph by Sir Paul Marshall and its implications for the Conservative Party, his beliefs, media impartiality, the influence that media owners wield, the dominance of right wing media outlets and the future of journalism. “What I can see in reading, what Paul Marsh has written himself and also actually watching GB News's content is, if you fetishize almost, the freedom of speech, and at one's own belief, over the notion of science and experts. Isn't that at the heart of this? And isn't that where it also meets some of the biggest problems in media at the moment?” To support our journalism and receive a weekly blog sign up now for £1.99 per month: www.patreon.com/BeebWatch/membership Or if you'd rather make a one off payment please use our crowdfunding page: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/roger-boltons-beeb-watch-podcast @BeebRogerInstagram: rogerboltonsbeebwatchLinkedIn: Roger Bolton's Beeb Watchemail: roger@rogerboltonsbeebwatch.com Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A few years ago I wrote a script called Four Murders and Some Funerals, about an old lady who is the victim of a terrible miscarriage of justice. Seeking revenge she murders one of the perpetrators (by accident - long story, but it works), discovers she's a natural at bumping people off, does away with the other three, and ends up becoming a vigilante serial killer - righting wrongs wherever she finds them and usually where the law has failed. I still think it was a pretty good script, though it never got made - a bit like Miss Marple, only more savage and retributionist. Anyway, as a result of writing said script, I had to come up with a number of original ways by which an old lady might kill people: I had one person pushed down a lift shaft, another electrocuted in the bath, another shot and another poisoned. This all involved quite a bit of research, especially the various poisons. Should our heroine use cyanide, polonium, fentanyl or botulinum, for example?For obvious reasons, I wasn't quite comfortable googling all the questions I had, so I took to Tor, DuckDuckGo and internet anonymity. I'm glad I did because, believe you me, how to murder someone is one heck of an internet rabbit hole to go down. Before long I was reading about hiring Chechen hitmen and lord knows what else. Obviously, in the grand scheme of things, researching a script about a murderer is a fairly trivial use case for internet anonymity. But I don't think the day is far away when your internet search history - which Google keeps forever, by the way, unless you take steps to delete it - will be taken into account for things like insurance risk, profiling, social credit score, by potential employers and so on. I don't think several days researching how to kill someone reflects particularly well. Of relevance, one of my followers tells me that Justin Trudeau is trying to impose a law whereby police can retroactively search the Internet for ‘hate speech' violations and arrest offenders, even if the offence occurred before the law existed.But you don't have to be asking questions about how to kill someone to want anonymity. You might be living under some extreme theological regime, asking questions like is there a god; or under a totalitarian regime, asking questions about freedom; or under a corrupt and incompetent regime, asking questions about vaccine safety. You get the point. Anonymity protects you. It limits the power that others have over you and the ability they have to control you. It enables you to protect your reputation, and stop things from being used against you, especially out of context. It gives you greater control over your own data and thus your destiny. But let's say I did actually want to kill someone, and that I even researched how to do it, before deciding not to. The only crime I would be guilty of is thought. But if my search history can be used against me, it doesn't matter if, ten years later I have moved on from the murder thing, it's still there, and if the police or some activist decided to uncover it, I would, in the eyes of many, forever be guilty of murder, even if I had committed no such crime, beyond thinking about it - which, I bet, most of us have at some point in our darkest hours.For me the most powerful use case is freedom of thought. Being anonymous is liberating. I'm sure that is why masked balls proved so popular.  If you know you are being watched, you are less likely to explore new ideas outside the mainstream, ideas which family, friends, colleagues or even society may dislike. These might be philosophical, political or theological ideas, scientific or artistic. We might want to express thoughts we otherwise feel unable to express. A lot of things, if judged from a different time or place, by people who lack complete knowledge or understanding, may seem odd or worse intolerable. Anonymity protects against having to worry about how actions are perceived and against  constantly having to justify them. Anonymity is the nemesis of censorship.Get your friends to read this.This happened to a comedian friend of mine the other day. I don't want to say his name, because I don't want to draw attention to the doxxing. He was posting anonymously on Telegram. Some ideological opponent spent hours following him, going through his material and then exposed his identity, publishing all the stuff he had been saying in order to try and lose him his job. (Which he nearly did: he got suspended but thankfully re-instated). They did something similar to the tycoon Paul Marshall, who had an anonymous Twitter account.The most compelling real life example of why we need internet anonymity must be Satoshi Nakamoto. We would not have bitcoin without it. For sure, many will say, “bah, bitcoin”, but we are talking here about one of the most revolutionary technologies ever invented, and one that has the potential (I don't say it will, I say it has the potential) to fix our broken political and economic systems peacefully. How? Because it enables people to opt out. It provides an alternative money system and money is the zero patient: “Fix the money, fix the world,” runs the mantra. Remove the state's monopoly on money, you reduce its ability to create money at no cost to itself and you limit its ability to do all the terrible things it does. And please don't say, “But what about the NHS”.Subscribe to The Flying Frisby.So I favour internet anonymity, which is a much harder feat to achieve now than it used to be. But I also get that this is not a black and white issue. I've no doubt that many a murderous act has been plotted anonymously by terrorists and others looking to kill innocent civilians. Certain politicians, celebrities and others take an enormous amount of abuse from anonymous accounts: I have heard Ian Wright complain many times about the racist trolling  he gets from anonymous accounts, demanding that X, Facebook et al take the trolls to account. The privilege of anonymity gets abused, and badly. What is they say, “with freedom comes great responsibility”?With anonymity, even more so.Many government ministers will care more about the terrorist plotting and the online abuse (which they probably get more than their fair share of) than they will about the freedom to explore new ideas. And, as I say, the censors hate it because the anonymous are harder to control. So, going forward, we can expect more and more attempts to prevent it. Seven reasons we need internet anonymity:* Freedom of expression.* Protection of privacy.* Safety and security.* Overcoming barriers to access.* Encouraging innovation and creativity.* Protection against online harassment and abuse. * Preserving autonomy and control.Tell your mates. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.theflyingfrisby.com/subscribe

A few years ago I wrote a script called Four Murders and Some Funerals, about an old lady who is the victim of a terrible miscarriage of justice. Seeking revenge she murders one of the perpetrators (by accident - long story, but it works), discovers she's a natural at bumping people off, does away with the other three, and ends up becoming a vigilante serial killer - righting wrongs wherever she finds them and usually where the law has failed. I still think it was a pretty good script, though it never got made - a bit like Miss Marple, only more savage and retributionist. Anyway, as a result of writing said script, I had to come up with a number of original ways by which an old lady might kill people: I had one person pushed down a lift shaft, another electrocuted in the bath, another shot and another poisoned. This all involved quite a bit of research, especially the various poisons. Should our heroine use cyanide, polonium, fentanyl or botulinum, for example?For obvious reasons, I wasn't quite comfortable googling all the questions I had, so I took to Tor, DuckDuckGo and internet anonymity. I'm glad I did because, believe you me, how to murder someone is one heck of an internet rabbit hole to go down. Before long I was reading about hiring Chechen hitmen and lord knows what else. Obviously, in the grand scheme of things, researching a script about a murderer is a fairly trivial use case for internet anonymity. But I don't think the day is far away when your internet search history - which Google keeps forever, by the way, unless you take steps to delete it - will be taken into account for things like insurance risk, profiling, social credit score, by potential employers and so on. I don't think several days researching how to kill someone reflects particularly well. Of relevance, one of my followers tells me that Justin Trudeau is trying to impose a law whereby police can retroactively search the Internet for ‘hate speech' violations and arrest offenders, even if the offence occurred before the law existed.But you don't have to be asking questions about how to kill someone to want anonymity. You might be living under some extreme theological regime, asking questions like is there a god; or under a totalitarian regime, asking questions about freedom; or under a corrupt and incompetent regime, asking questions about vaccine safety. You get the point. Anonymity protects you. It limits the power that others have over you and the ability they have to control you. It enables you to protect your reputation, and stop things from being used against you, especially out of context. It gives you greater control over your own data and thus your destiny. But let's say I did actually want to kill someone, and that I even researched how to do it, before deciding not to. The only crime I would be guilty of is thought. But if my search history can be used against me, it doesn't matter if, ten years later I have moved on from the murder thing, it's still there, and if the police or some activist decided to uncover it, I would, in the eyes of many, forever be guilty of murder, even if I had committed no such crime, beyond thinking about it - which, I bet, most of us have at some point in our darkest hours.For me the most powerful use case is freedom of thought. Being anonymous is liberating. I'm sure that is why masked balls proved so popular.  If you know you are being watched, you are less likely to explore new ideas outside the mainstream, ideas which family, friends, colleagues or even society may dislike. These might be philosophical, political or theological ideas, scientific or artistic. We might want to express thoughts we otherwise feel unable to express. A lot of things, if judged from a different time or place, by people who lack complete knowledge or understanding, may seem odd or worse intolerable. Anonymity protects against having to worry about how actions are perceived and against  constantly having to justify them. Anonymity is the nemesis of censorship.Get your friends to read this.This happened to a comedian friend of mine the other day. I don't want to say his name, because I don't want to draw attention to the doxxing. He was posting anonymously on Telegram. Some ideological opponent spent hours following him, going through his material and then exposed his identity, publishing all the stuff he had been saying in order to try and lose him his job. (Which he nearly did: he got suspended but thankfully re-instated). They did something similar to the tycoon Paul Marshall, who had an anonymous Twitter account.The most compelling real life example of why we need internet anonymity must be Satoshi Nakamoto. We would not have bitcoin without it. For sure, many will say, “bah, bitcoin”, but we are talking here about one of the most revolutionary technologies ever invented, and one that has the potential (I don't say it will, I say it has the potential) to fix our broken political and economic systems peacefully. How? Because it enables people to opt out. It provides an alternative money system and money is the zero patient: “Fix the money, fix the world,” runs the mantra. Remove the state's monopoly on money, you reduce its ability to create money at no cost to itself and you limit its ability to do all the terrible things it does. And please don't say, “But what about the NHS”.Subscribe to The Flying Frisby.So I favour internet anonymity, which is a much harder feat to achieve now than it used to be. But I also get that this is not a black and white issue. I've no doubt that many a murderous act has been plotted anonymously by terrorists and others looking to kill innocent civilians. Certain politicians, celebrities and others take an enormous amount of abuse from anonymous accounts: I have heard Ian Wright complain many times about the racist trolling  he gets from anonymous accounts, demanding that X, Facebook et al take the trolls to account. The privilege of anonymity gets abused, and badly. What is they say, “with freedom comes great responsibility”?With anonymity, even more so.Many government ministers will care more about the terrorist plotting and the online abuse (which they probably get more than their fair share of) than they will about the freedom to explore new ideas. And, as I say, the censors hate it because the anonymous are harder to control. So, going forward, we can expect more and more attempts to prevent it. Seven reasons we need internet anonymity:* Freedom of expression.* Protection of privacy.* Safety and security.* Overcoming barriers to access.* Encouraging innovation and creativity.* Protection against online harassment and abuse. * Preserving autonomy and control.Tell your mates. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.theflyingfrisby.com/subscribe

Shares in Arm drop after it reports lacklustre revenue projections, Singapore is studying proposals to shake up its struggling stock market, EU countries have agreed to use an estimated €3bn in profits from Russia's frozen state assets to buy weapons for Ukraine, and a newly expanded pipeline in Canada breathes life into the oil industry. Plus, hedge fund manager Sir Paul Marshall has lost a legal battle with the South African government over shipwrecked treasure. Mentioned in this podcast:Arm shares drop as revenue forecast falls short despite AI boomSingapore battles to revive struggling stock marketEU agrees to arm Ukraine using profits from Russian state assetsCanada's oil industry cuts reliance on US market as pipeline expandsHedge fund boss Paul Marshall loses case over silver salvaged from shipwreckThe FT News Briefing is produced by Fiona Symon, Sonja Hutson, Kasia Broussalian and Marc Filippino. Additional help by Breen Turner, Mischa Frankl-Duval, Sam Giovinco, Peter Barber, Michael Lello, David da Silva and Gavin Kallmann. Our engineer is Monica Lopez. Topher Forhecz is the FT's executive producer. The FT's global head of audio is Cheryl Brumley. The show's theme song is by Metaphor Music.Read a transcript of this episode on FT.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For our cover story this month, author, broadcaster and theologian Andrew Graystone explores media tycoon Paul Marshall's God-driven mission to reshape Britain. He joins deputy editor Ellen Halliday to discuss Marshall's life, faith and media empire—and why it matters for Britain. Read Andrew Graystone's cover story here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this special throwback episode of Tent Show Radio, Different Drums of Ireland take the stage for a celebratory performance showcasing Irelands unique indigenous sounds and rich cultural diversity. Different Drums of Ireland was created in Derry, Northern Ireland in 1991 as an exercise to use art and music as a vehicle to do something positive in the community. Different Drums of Ireland celebrates the musical traditions, customs, and sounds of that wee part of the world, crossing boundaries in an effort to promote peace and unity. Primarily a joint celebration of the Bodhrán and the Lambeg, drums seen as representative of the Nationalist and Unionist cultures respectively in Ireland, Different Drums of Ireland play a unique form of Irish music which also borrows from other cultures. Influenced by the Kodo drummers from Japan, they explore a wide variety of percussive sounds as the employ the African Djembe drum for the rhythmic engine of the band and you'll also hear the high-tension snare and various other percussion from around the world. As Different Drums of Ireland, Roy Arbuckle, Stevie Matier, Dolores O'Hare, Paul Marshall, & Richard Campbell have played across the world, for everyone from US & Irish presidents to school children. Their performances are a unique celebration of cultural diversity and linkages - the sound and passion of Different Drums of Ireland is something truly unique and unforgettable.     EPISODE CREDITSMichael Perry - Host Phillip Anich - Announcer Gina Nagro - Marketing Support FOLLOW BIG TOP CHAUTAUQUA https://www.facebook.com/bigtopchautauqua/ https://www.instagram.com/bigtopchautauqua/ https://www.tiktok.com/@bigtopchautauqua https://twitter.com/BigBlueTent FOLLOW HOST MICHAEL PERRYhttps://sneezingcow.com/ https://www.facebook.com/sneezingcow https://www.instagram.com/sneezingcow/ https://twitter.com/sneezingcow/ 2024 TENT SHOW RADIO SPONSORSAshland Area Chamber of Commerce - https://www.visitashland.com/    Bayfield Chamber and Visitor Bureau - https://www.bayfield.org/  Bayfield County Tourism - https://www.bayfieldcounty.wi.gov/150/Tourism  The Bayfield Inn - https://bayfieldinn.com/  Cable Area Chamber of Commerce - https://www.cable4fun.com/  Kylmala Truss - https://www.kylmalatruss.com/ SPECIAL THANKSWisconsin Public Radio - https://www.wpr.org/ 

The millionaire hedge fund manager Sir Paul Marshall has recently hit the headlines, both for his growing media portfolio and controversy over his social media activity. After an eclectic career spent mostly in the background, from philanthropic work to high-powered finance, Sir Paul seems to be increasingly exerting his influence on the media and politics. He already backs GB News and UnHerd and is reported to be preparing a bid for the Telegraph and Spectator.Stephen Smith asks what shaped and drives Paul Marshall, by talking to those who know him best.Presenter: Stephen Smith Producer: Nathan Gower Assistant Producer: Debbie Richford Editor: Matt Willis Programme Coordinator: Sabine Schereck Sound Engineer: James BeardArchive: Speech by Paul Marshall to the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship Conference 2023 Citizen Kane, RKO Radio Pictures

Welcome to the Radio 43 podcast from HOPE not hate, the antifascism show.Nick and Joe sit down for the first episode of 2024 to discuss:HNH's new investigation into GB News owner Paul Marshall who we've caught sharing and liking really extreme stuff from an anonymised Twitter accountHNH's new investigation into the West Midlands branch of the Patriotic Alternative splinter group, The Homeland Party. It's full of really extreme charactersA quick-fire round-up of news from across the far-right this yearHOPE not hate's 2024 edition of our State of Hate report comes out in a few weeks and we have been absolutely slammed with that, so big apologies for not getting an episode out sooner this year.Thanks to you all for listening.— LINKS:Paul Marshall investigationWest Midlands branch of Homeland investigation

An investigation by Hope Not Hate reported this week that Paul Marshall, owner of GB News and UnHerd and frontrunner in the race to buy the Telegraph, had repeatedly liked and re-tweeted racist and Islamophobic content. In this special bonus episode, Alan and Lionel discuss who decides whether someone is fit to own a major UK newspaper, what Ofcom can do to uphold standards—and what could happen to political discourse in the United Kingdom if Marshall's bid succeeds. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From the Black Panthers to hip hop, the Shakur family stands out as leaders of Black political thought and activism in this country. Journalist Santi Elijah Holley chronicles the history of this family in his new  book “An Amerikan Family: The Shakurs and the Nation.” Holley describes a group of people committed to resisting the exploitation and persecution of Black people, and creating a space of self-determination through activism, care, violence, and art. OPB’s Prakruti Bhatt talks to Holley at the 2023 Portland Book Festival.    From Dennis Rodman’s hair colors to Michael Jordan’s sneakers to LeBron James’s Thom Browne suits, the NBA has long been a place where players’ style off the courts is talked about nearly as much as their style on the courts. Mitchell Jackson’s latest book, “Fly: The Big Book of Basketball Fashion,” chronicles the relationship between basketball, fashion, politics and hip hop. OPB’s Paul Marshall talks to Jackson at the 2023 Portland Book Festival.

On this week's episode, I have actor Chris Gorham, (Out of Practice, The Lincoln Lawyer, NCIS: Los Angeles and many many more) and we dive into the origins of his career. We also discuss the work-life balance he has with his family and some of the things he wishes more actors were aware of while filming. There is so much more, so tune in.Show NotesChris Gorham on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisgorham/Chris Gorham IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330913/Chris Gorham on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_GorhamMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletterAutogenerated TranscriptChris Gorham:But in getting to know them and talking to them, Almost all of them had day jobs, like worked for the city, Worked, worked for construction crews. They had full-on-day Jobs. Some of them were Entrepreneurs, some of them worked in government. And that was a New idea to me because that hadn't been my experience here. But as the income and equality has increased so dramatically, It feels like that's where our business has been going, where everybody has to have another,Michael Jamin:You are listening to, what the hell is Michael Jamin talking about? I'll tell you what I'm talking about. I'm talking about creativity. I'm talking about writing, and I'm talking about reinventing yourself through the arts.Chris Gorham:Like my backdrop, this is my, oh, I love it. Official SAG after LA delegate backdrop that we used him during the convention.Michael Jamin:I know you're a big show. We're starting already. I'm here with Chris Gorham, and he is an actor I worked with many years ago on a show called Out of Practice. He's one of the stars that was a show with starting Henry Winkler, stocker Channing, Ty Burrell, Chris Gorham, and Paul Marshall. It was a great show on CBS and only lasted a season. But Chris, Chris is about as successful working actors as you can, short of being like someone like Brad Pitt, who's known across the world. You've done a ton of TV shows, and I'm going to blow through them real fast here.Chris Gorham:Okay. You can, I can't talk about them still, but your strike is over so you can,Michael Jamin:Yeah, right, because Chris is, I guess he's in sag and actually you're one of the members, you're one of the, what do you call yourself, the king? SoChris Gorham:I'm the king of SAG aftra. No, I was elected to be on the LA local board and also elected as a delegate. So that's what this background was. Our official LA delegate background forMichael Jamin:The research delegate for for the model. What does that meanChris Gorham:For the convention? Yeah. It's kind of reminiscent of Model un. So it's the convention that happens every two years where all the delegates get together and we elect the executive vice president, and there's certain offices that get elected by the delegate membership.Michael Jamin:I don't think we have that in the Writer's Guild. I think we have a direct democracy. You, I guess have a representative democracy.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Yeah. It's a much bigger union. How bigMichael Jamin:Is it? How big do you know? AboutChris Gorham:160,000 members.Michael Jamin:Wow. Okay. Members, but that's active members. And what do you have to be to be an active member?Chris Gorham:What do you have to be? DoMichael Jamin:You have to sell? You have to work a certain amount or something?Chris Gorham:No, once you're in, you can stay in as long as you pay your duesMichael Jamin:Every year. Oh, okay. But then that doesn't mean you get health. You have to qualify for health insurance and stuff like that. Correct.Chris Gorham:Well, it's a big part of the strike. It's one of our big talking points really is only about 13% and just under 13% earn enough to qualify for our healthcare plan. And I mean, that's only about $26,700 a year to qualify for healthcare.Michael Jamin:That's a big deal. I mean, healthcare, healthcare. So most people don't realize this, and it seems so naive to say this, but I get so many comments when on social media, all these actors are millionaires. Dude, what are you talking about? You can be a working actor and book two gig. You're lucky if you do two gigs a year. AndChris Gorham:Well listen, it goes to the heart of what this strike is about is that it's worse than people even think because just to what's the best way to talk about it? So a big part of our asked during this negotiation is a big increase in the contributions to our health and pension plan by the producers. And the reason is that they haven't increased it in a long, long, long, long time. So for instance, one person could work, let's say you got hired to do an episode and got paid very well, right? For one episode. Let's say you're getting it, it's an anthology show. They're paying the top two people like series regulars, and you're getting a hundred grand for one episode. So you would think a hundred thousand dollars. That is a lot of money for one episode. If I'm doing that, I am clear. Definitely qualify. You do not qualify for healthcare because you've only done one episode and the producers only have to contribute up to a certain amount. So even though you've made a hundred grand in one episode, you still have to book another job, at least one moreMichael Jamin:And clear,Chris Gorham:Not going to qualify for healthcare.Michael Jamin:I've produced a lot of shows. I don't recall ever paying a guest star anywhere close to a hundred thousand an episode. No, not even close.Chris Gorham:No, no. And the minimums have, right now, I think for a drama, the minimum's around $9,000, maybe a little more than that for an episode for top of Show guest start like the top paid guest shows on those shows. Yeah, you can't. And it's become almost impossible to negotiate a rate higher than the minimums.Michael Jamin:You can have a quote and they go, well, that's too bad. This is what we're paying you.Chris Gorham:Correct. This is what we're paying you.Michael Jamin:Let me just run through some of yours so people know who we're talking about because some people are listening to it. So Chris is, I'm going to blow some of his bigger parts, but he works so much. So let's start with Party of Five where you did four episodes, which I love that show. I just had to mention that, but of course, popular. You did a ton of those. Felicity, remember that? Odyssey five, Jake 2.0, which you started in medical investigation out of practice, which I mentioned Harper's Island Ugly Betty, Betty Laa, which I loved, of course, covert Affairs and what else? I'm going through your list here. Full Circle two Broke Girls. You worked with two of the broke girls and insatiable the Lincoln lawyer, and that doesn't include any of your guest chart. So you are incredibly successful actor and you've strung, actually, I want to hit on something. Sure. So this is a little embarrassing on my part. We had a technical, this is our second interview because I had technical errors on my point. I'm not that good with technology, even though I've done well over a hundred episodes of this, and Chris graciously allowed me to do this over. But one of the things that you said, the thing that struck me the most during our last talk, which I found incredibly interesting and humble, I said to you, Chris, how do you choose your roles? And do you remember what you said to me?Chris Gorham:Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. I said, I should be so lucky. Yeah. The reality is, it's like actors like me. I've had a lot of conversations with actors like me who star on television shows, multiple television shows, and we all joke about how many times we've been asked in interviews. The questionMichael Jamin:Really,Chris Gorham:Why did you choose this to be your next project?Michael Jamin:Right. Well, I wanted to eat. That's why.Chris Gorham:Yeah, yeah. Because I think journalists sometimes forget, and they think that we're all to use your example, Brad Pitt, and that we're being sent scripts and we get to choose what our next project is, but in reality, that is not at all. What happens, what happens for the vast majority of us is we are sent auditions. Sometimes we get the scripts, sometimes we don't. And we put ourselves now what used to be going to the casting office. Now we put ourselves on tape and we send it off into the void, and we hope that we get hired.Michael Jamin:And you'll work on a part. When you do get the script, how long will you spend preparing for that before you submit your tape?Chris Gorham:Oh, it depends mostly on two things. One, how many pages it is, and then it depends on how well written it's, to be honest. You've heard this before.Michael Jamin:Go ahead. Tell me.Chris Gorham:The better the writing, the easier it is to memorize.Michael Jamin:Right. And explain why that is.Chris Gorham:Well, the reason is is because it makes sense. If it's written like a human being talks, then the next sentence follows from the sentence before. If you understand the emotion of what's going on, then it just makes sense and the dialogue flows and it's just so much easier to memorize. The stuff that's always the hardest is when you're the character that's laying pipe and you're just spewing out exposition and it's not really coming. Listen, the good writers are always trying to tie it down to that emotional reality, but sometimes you got to lay pipe, and that's stuff's always the hardest, particularly if it's a bunch of medical jargon or legal jargon. That kind of stuff is crazy.Michael Jamin:And what people don't also realize, I think, is when you're starting out an actor, oh, I could play everything. I could play a villain. I could play a teacher, I could play a biker, I could play a doctor. That's fine when you're in your high school play, but in Hollywood, you're going to be cast the part that you are closest to because if not, we will cast someone who looks like a biker or who was a biker, and we'll cast someone who looks like a doctor. Right? Yeah. So you have to figure out who you are, basically.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Well, it's one of the, I went to theater school at UCLA and I was very lucky because during my freshman year, they decided to start a conservatory program within the theater program there. So we all auditioned and I got into this conservatory program. So for my last three years, it was conservatory training, and I still got my bachelor of arts degree from UCLA. It was the best of both worlds. One of the things that I felt like a few years out after having it is I wished they had spent a little bit more time helping us learn how to act like ourselves. You spend so much time in theater school, learning how to stretch your creativity, working on your voice, working on your body movement, body awareness, vocal awareness, and then learning how to play all these different kinds of parts and all the plays you're doing. All the parts are filled from college students. So sometimes you're playing an old man, sometimes you're playing a young woman who knows. But the second you start auditioning for roles professionally, you're only going to be seen for roles that you physically look like. And so it's really important to quickly learn if you haven't already, how to be you. Right. How do you do that version of you?Michael Jamin:Where do you begin with that?Chris Gorham:Well, it takes practice. We used to do an exercise. It was in one of the very beginning acting classes. In fact, I didn't even take this acting class. I was observing, I think my senior year, one of the grad students was teaching it. And it was just as simple as everybody got in circle and instead of being crazy and dancing like a tree or whatever, it was literally, it was just walk across. Just walk from point A to point B. Just you just don't do anything. Just walk from what, and you would be surprised how difficult that can be becauseMichael Jamin:You become self-conscious of what you'reChris Gorham:Exactly right. You become and you feel like you should do something mean. And especially for a bunch of theater kids who've kind of grown up in their theater school, all high schools and stuff all over, it's all about being big, and it's all about the jokes and getting attention and to let all of that go and just be in the market is a very difficult thing for a lot of people. But it's super, super important. And that carries through forever. Just being just be there. You don't have to do anything, particularly when you have a camera on you, and particularly when it's time for your closeup, you don't have to do a lot. You just have to be there and be present and alive in the scene.Michael Jamin:But so much, I think some people, they greatly underestimate how difficult acting is because it looks like make-believe and whatever. We're just, you're having fun on the camera, but to be in the moment, especially when the cameras are on you and everyone's watching in, go hurry up and go, because we've set up the scene for half hour and we want you to shoot it now. And it's so hard to stay in the moment, I think. So how do you stay in the moment when you become conscious that you're actingChris Gorham:Now? If I become conscious that I'm acting now, I'll just stop.Michael Jamin:You willChris Gorham:Often I'll just stop and say, can we start over? Can we just go back to the top because for whatever reason, and then go again. Because if I'm conscious, then I'm not in a scene, then it's not going to work and they're not going to be able to use it. So I would just stop and go back. I mean, it's the great advantage of film, right?Michael Jamin:But you do much theater anymore, because that's different when you're on stage.Chris Gorham:I only feel like benefits and things for years. We're rehearsing for one this weekend, we're doing the Girls Benefit to raise money for breast cancer research.Michael Jamin:So it's one show.Chris Gorham:It's one show. I mean, for me, I've been a single income family of five for almost 23 years. So with that, I haven't able to afford to go and do theater, but I miss it. I love it. I did two weeks, 14 years ago, I did two weeks in Spalding Gray Stories left to Tell in New York off Broadway.Michael Jamin:Really? So you were Spalding Gray, I mean, it's a one man show,Chris Gorham:Right? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a one man show split into five different personalities. So it's different parts of him. And so the business part, they would swap out celebrities every two weeks. And so I came in and did that for two weeks, and it was the best.Michael Jamin:And this was in New York?Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:That's amazing. How did something like that come up? How do you get that?Chris Gorham:I don't know. I don't remember. I don't mean it must've come through my agents or my manager. I don't remember. I don't remember.Michael Jamin:Wow. How interesting.Chris Gorham:Because now, I was just going to say now, it's been so long since I've done, I've become, I'm so out of the loop of LA theater in particular, which is kind of more feasible for me at this point, just because it's close and easy. I don't even really know how to get back in. In fact, one of my youngest was doing a summer theater camp at Annoys Within, and it's close to where we are. So I was trying to figure out, I reached out to my manager, I was like, Hey, is really close. Is there, are they doing anything that would make sense for me to do something with them over there? They were like, yeah, that's a great idea. And they never heard anything. So I just emailed them my photo and resume with a letter, and I never heard anything back. So I literally, I don't even know how to approach getting cast in theater anymore,Michael Jamin:Because your agent, there's not enough money for your agent to work on it.Chris Gorham:They couldn't be less interested.Michael Jamin:I'm always curious how that works. We just saw a show at the Pasadena Playhouse and I was like, well, how do these actors, how do they, yeah, ifChris Gorham:You find out, let me know the Playhouse also write down the street. It'd be amazing.Michael Jamin:Yeah, there's always some, but then again, you would have to commit to something. And during that time period, let's say it was two months, you can't take other work you've committed and something big could come along, who knows? IChris Gorham:Mean, maybe. But also that is, you live with that fear all the time, no matter whatMichael Jamin:Do you mean even if you're on a show, you mean?Chris Gorham:Well, not if you're on a show, then you're working well, then you worry about the show being canceled and then that you're never going to work again. But when you're not working, well, this brings up two thoughts. One is there's a fear of taking something that's not the big thing, because you are afraid that if you do this smaller thing that it's going to conflict with the big thing that might be just around the court. And the other thought that it brings up is I talked with so many actors over the years who are not working and are really struggling and feel paralyzed about going to try and do anything else because there's this intense peer pressure that, well, you can't quit. You can't quit now that your moment, it might be just around the corner, it might be the next audition.Michael Jamin:You mean quit Hollywood and do something for a different career, youChris Gorham:Mean? Yeah, go do something else. You got to hang in. You got to hang in. And I feel like it's a really difficult balancing act because the truth is that this business is really, really hard to go back to the strike. It's gotten increasingly difficult to the point where it's almost impossible with an actor to make a living, to be able to raise a family, to be able to put your kids through college and those kind of life things that are important to so many of us.Michael Jamin:And I know, and that's why you fight and that's why you fight. And that's why it's so people think, well, so what for actors? But the problem is like you're saying, if actors can't make a living in between or you're starring in a show, that's great, but the show will probably get canceled up to one season. But you still need to keep a healthy talent pool of actors who can continue to keep a living, because if they can't, they're going to leave. And then how are you going to cast as writers and producers? How do you cast this part if there's not a healthy talent pool? That'sChris Gorham:It. That's it. We can't continue paying the stars these massive, massive, massive amounts of money and having everybody else working on these tiny minimums because it's unsustainable. The best and the brightest of us that haven't won the lottery are going to go do other things because there's more to life and life. You can be an actor without pursuing it as a career.Michael Jamin:But I haven't heard those notions come up at all. Maybe I'm not just tuned in, but the idea of, well, maybe we're paying the stars too much, or has that been a discussion at all?Chris Gorham:I mean, I have that discussion. Yeah. Oh, really? Well, yeah, because it's not that, well, certainly for me, and not so much from my personal experience, but just from my kind of bleeding heart observations of this business, when you see movies, it's why, like I've said for a long time, the only way now to make a living in this business is if you're a star or a series regular on a TV show.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yes, I agree with that. It's theChris Gorham:Only way because all of the supporting cast, none of the supporting cast makes enough money to make a consistent living in this business because your stars get massive amounts of money. Everyone else is working scale, and the minimums have not risen nearly enough to make it enough. And the stars, well, this is the excuse the studios use, is that they're paying the stars so much. There's no money left to pay anybody else over scale, so no one else can negotiate over scale. And in tv it's a similar thing. So it just makes it very difficult.Michael Jamin:And not only that, LA has always been an expensive city to live, but now it's crazy. It's like crazy. I can't afford, if I hadn't bought my house when I did it, I couldn't even come close to affording this house and have a middle class house. It's something special about it. So these are the issues that actors are fighting over. Yeah, it's an important, it's so interesting when you hear your friends or colleagues thinking about leaving, do they tell you what they're going to do or what they want to do? It's such a hard thing when you're middle aged, what are you going to do?Chris Gorham:Right. No, it's true. It's true. No, I have some friends that have gone into teaching.Michael Jamin:Okay.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Most of my actor friends are still around. Have one friend who started the business ages ago and still runs that business while she's worked periodically as an actor throughout all of these years. And she still works frequently, but her main income is from this business that she created. Right.Michael Jamin:She's very, so you got to be entrepreneurial, basically. Yeah.Chris Gorham:Yeah. It's funny. I did a movie early in my career where we shot in Tonga and New Zealand, and we had a lot of New Zealand actors were working on this film and in talk, and some of them were quite famous in New Zealand. They were working on this famous New Zealand TV show, like legitimate celebrities. But in getting to know them and talking to them, almost all of them had day jobs, worked for the city, worked, worked in construction crews. They have full on day jobs. Some of them were entrepreneurs, some of them worked in government. And that was a new idea to me because that hadn't been my experience here. But as the income inequality has increased so dramatically, it feels like that's where our business has been going, where everybody has to have another gig.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Chris Gorham:It didn't used to be that way. And I don't think that it has to be that way.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely, yeah, it seems very unfair. It doesn't seem, well, I mean, I guess all things is fair about being an actor. Being an actor has always been a pursuit of like, well, is there anything else you could do? Then choose that? But true, it seems like now it's like, I don't know. What do you do? What recommend then for people, young kids or kids, whatever, 20 year olds who considering getting into the business?Chris Gorham:Yeah, I mean, that advice I think is evergreen. That if you can go do something else as a career, absolutely do something else as a career. Oftentimes the advice I give is when you're young, spend a lot less time thinking about what you want to be when you grow up and spend a lot more time thinking about what kind of life you want to live when you grow up, what kind of things do you want to do? And then you can find career paths that will allow you to live the kind of life you want to live. And it becomes less obsessed with having a certain job.Michael Jamin:Well, that's something to consider. So for you as a working actor, sometimes you'll be on location, you might be in a different city. Is that something you away from your family, which is hard as you were raised in a family, is that something you considered? Is that something you would reconsider now?Chris Gorham:I had no idea. I grew up in Fresno, California. My mom was a school nurse. My dad was an accountant. They didn't know what to do with me, and I didn't know anything about the business. I wanted to be. Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah. I had no idea. And so my first, and I was very fortunate. I got out of school, I started, I got my union card in 1996, the year I got out of school was booking occasional guest stars on things. My first job was one scene in a movie with two big movie stars, big famous director. It was awesome. And then I booked my first series just three years after school. Cool. And it was shot at Disney. It was like 10 minutes away from our little place we were renting. And then it was canceled and it came out of nowhere. And then I was very fortunate again. I booked another series two weeks later, but that one shot until longMichael Jamin:AndChris Gorham:I had no idea what that meant. And I left to do that pilot six weeks after our first born son, our firstborn was born. So my wife, anal had no idea what no idea we were doing. Suddenly we had a newborn baby, six weeks old, and then I'm gone for five weeks. It was extraordinarily difficult.Michael Jamin:I apologize. Something must be open and I have to shut it down because someone's, I'm sorry.Chris Gorham:Oh, no worries. Okay.Michael Jamin:I thought everything shut. But yeah, so to continue, so that's heartbreaking. You have a brand new baby and you're out of town. You left here.Chris Gorham:Yeah. It was hard. And we didn't, because we didn't grow up here, so we had no experience. I don't know how to do this. And no one was really kind explaining to us, okay, this is how you get through this. These are the different ways you can do it. These are the options. You know what I mean? I didn't have anybody, I didn't have a mentor or somebody guiding me in how to do this thing.Michael Jamin:But at any point in your career, you must, because worked for so many actors, you must have at some point found someone a little older and wiser. Right?Chris Gorham:Well, the closest thing we had was Anelle had Stacey Winkler. It was really sweet. Anelle used to sit next to Stacey Winkler at every taping, and they would just talk and Stacey would give her advice, and it was great. One week, Anelle come to the taping, and the next week Stacey scolded her and was like, you have to be here every week and let everyone know that that is your husband.Michael Jamin:Interesting. I remember she came to, I think every out of practice,Chris Gorham:Everyone.Michael Jamin:So why is it about staking your territory? What was that? Or is this being supportive?Chris Gorham:What was it? No, I think it was both, but I think partly staking your territory. I was the young guy, the young handsome guy on this show, and it's a CVS show, and so she was like, you need to be here. But then it was also she said, but then he's the star here at work. You have to make sure that when you get home, the kids are the star, not him. You have to make it veryMichael Jamin:Clear. Was there a difficulty for you? Is it hard to go home and not be the star? What was that like?Chris Gorham:I had gotten pretty good at it, certainly by then. But I would imagine looking back in the beginning, it's kind of that power corrupt and absolute power. Corrupt absolutely. Of course can go to your head when you are getting a little famous and you're making some money. And when you're at work, you are catered to, you're one of the stars of the show. You're catered to a handed foot. Everything's taken care of. I've described it as series regulars are treated like fancyMichael Jamin:Babies on set.Chris Gorham:Don't upset the babies. You need to keep them safe at all times. You need to keep them comfortable at all times. You don't want them crying. You don't want them cranky. You need to keep them fully regulated because when everything's ready to roll, we need the fancy babies to be able to perform. And as soon as they're done, we want them to go back to their cribs slash trailers so that then the grownups can finish getting everything ready for the next shot.Michael Jamin:And imagine giving this kind of pressure to a child actor. I mean, have you worked with many child actors?Chris Gorham:Yeah, many over the years, and I can say almost all of it. Almost all of it's been a good experience. I haven't had any total nightmares with child doctors. That being said, every parent that's asked us about getting their kid into the business, we have always advised against it. And we didn't encourage any of our kids to get into it.Michael Jamin:It's rough. I haven't worked with many child, I just haven't been on shows with a lot of kids. And I am glad because I have a feeling I would when a kid is messing around on set in between takes or just not being professional because they're acting like children the way they are supposed to act. In my mind I would be thinking, stop fucking around. This is work. I know that's what I would be thinking, which is an awful thing to put on a child. But that's what you're paying them a lot of money to do. It's a hard position. I don't know. I just feel for those kids, I just feel like, yeah, I know. That's where Ill be thinking. Hopefully I wouldn't be saying it. Yeah,Chris Gorham:It's difficult. It's very, I mean, sets are, they're not for kids. They're an adult work environments, which by the way, some adult working actors need to be reminded occasionally that these are adult working environments. This is not your personal playground. But yeah, it's a difficult environment for kids. So I mean, you need them. So I'm grateful that they're there.Michael Jamin:I think that too sometimes. Sometimes I'll see an actor goofing around too much, and we're all, I'm like, dude, let's get out of here. All the crew wants to go home. They've been working 12 hour days for the past week and a half. They want to go home too.Chris Gorham:Well, let me tell you, this is one of the things where with every showrunner that I've become friendly with, I highly encourage them, if at all possible, to bring their series regulars behind the curtain and bring them to at least one production meeting that show them how the sausage really gets made, expose them to all of the other incredibly creative, intelligent, wonderful people who make up this team that makes the TV show or the film. Because then they get to see, because as cast, especially as the stars of the show or the film, you really are treated as if you are the most important cog in this machine. And it's really helpful, I think, and just the team morale, if actors understand that they are a very important cog in that machine, but just one of the cogs in the machine. YouMichael Jamin:Said you learned this, I think when you first were directing, you started directing episodes of the shows, you weren't, right?Chris Gorham:Yeah. I had think a basic actor's understanding of how things work on set. And I'm not to blow my own horn. I'm generally a nice person. So I'm kind to people. I'm nice to everybody on set. I learned people's names. I generally understood what people did, but only when I started directing did I really understand just how incredible the whole ensemble is and how much the rest of the team has to offer and is contributing to the show or the film. It was just a level of respect that I don't think I could really have until I was allowed behind the curtain to see how it was happening. So whatMichael Jamin:Would you recommend? Would you recommend that every week one actor attends a production meeting? Is that what you're saying?Chris Gorham:Listen, that's one way to do it. Right. However it works for that showrunner, for that production, I would just encourage them because I just feel like so often, and I think, I don't know if it's true now, but I've talked to showrunners in the past that have talked about the show and the training program and about the message they got was to keep the cast at arm's length. Really? Yeah. And there certainly can be good reasons for doing that. I can understand why that sometimes makes the job easier, certainly, and sometimes maybe makes it possible. But I just think there's more to gain by bringing them in to letting them see, really meet the whole team and get to know the whole team. And because there's just, I mean, truly, you see what the set designers do, and you see what the customers do, and you see, we get to understand how lighting works. You know what I mean? It's just how hard the ads work on putting together with the schedule and learn why the schedule gets put way put together the way it gets put together. And once you understand it, then maybe you're a little less mad about having to be last in on Friday, two weeks in a row.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Chris Gorham:You see, it's like they're not out to get you. They are trying to accommodate you, and you are not the only factor that is being accommodated.Michael Jamin:You're talking about the writers now?Chris Gorham:No, I was talking about the cast look, in regards to schedule casting,Michael Jamin:Very, very frustratedChris Gorham:About scheduling.Michael Jamin:Oh, I see. Yeah, that's always right. I can see why that would be frustrating. So what happens? You get a call sheet and you're told to come in whatever, 8:00 AM and they don't get to shoot your part until 1:00 PM and you're like, why did they call me in so early? And sometimes it just happens. It works out that wayChris Gorham:Sometimes. Yeah. They're trying. They're trying. And sometimes it just doesn't work out. And with the scripts, with writers, it's a similar kinds of thing. It's like once you understand how many chefs are in the kitchen of getting these scripts, these stories broken, and then these scripts written how many notes the writer has gotten about their script from the studio and then from the network before it ever gets to the cast.Michael Jamin:You're making me anxious just talking about it. No joke.Chris Gorham:Sorry. And then that's why as a cast member, when you then go to the writer and say, Hey, can I ask you about this? Your writer looks like they're dying a little inside.Michael Jamin:Yeah. No, no, I can't do that.Chris Gorham:And it's like, so the best writers that I've worked with have always been very organized about how actors give notes. They're like, if we're doing table reads on a show, they'll be like, look, we're going to do the table read. Everybody's got 24 hours to give whatever notes or feedback you've got about the script. And then after that, we're considering it locked. Please respect that once you're on. The idea being that you don't want to spend a lot of time on the day when you're there waiting to shoot, talking about suddenly having questions about the scene and asking it to be rewritten. That's not the term.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it's not. And because we have to get next week's script and next week's script is a disaster. I'm telling you, it's in terrible shape. That's how it always is.So you want to worry about this. What about the crashing plane out there? That's going to be, I remember, I have to show, I can't remember if I mentioned this last time we spoke, but one of my favorite experiences of working in Hollywood was when I was an out of practice, and I can't remember what I was doing. I think the showrunner, Chris, I think he had me deliver pages up to the actress. It was show night right before the show, and I don't know why it was made, but for some reason, I remember carrying a couple of scripts to the dressing room maybe an hour before the showtime, and you guys were all there, the whole cast, and you're holding hands. And Henry's like, come on, Michael, come on in, come on. And I'm like, what's going on right here? And you're all just holding hands. And he goes, and he invited me in. I'm like, but I'm a writer. What do you mean? No, grab some hands. So I remember taking who, who's hands? I don't know, but I'm in the middle. I'm with a circle. I'm holding hands. I'm like, what is going on here? And then you guys did, I don't know what you would call it, but it was some kind of, it'sChris Gorham:Like a little vocal warmup or something. No,Michael Jamin:It was almost like a blessing. It was like a blessing. It was almost like, what's it, we are here to, I am curious if you've done this since then. It was like, we are here to support each other. We're going to have a wonderful show. We're all together. We're a family. And it was almost spiritual. It was very, I guess you haven't done that. You don't remember this.Chris Gorham:I remember doing that. I don't remember that specific moment. But that was all Henry.Michael Jamin:But it wasn't every week that you guys didChris Gorham:That. Every week we did that.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Okay.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Every week it was our ritual, but Henry started as the ritual before we went down to start the show. We would have this time just with a cast or occasionally with a writer who'd come in.Michael Jamin:I thought it was a beautiful moment. I really did.Chris Gorham:It was really great on dramas. You don't do that because you don't have that moment where you're all together about to go start the show. That's already happened to me on sitcoms.Michael Jamin:So maybe it's a theater thing then. Do you thinkChris Gorham:For sure it's a theater thing. Yes. Yes.Michael Jamin:Yes. So tell me, this happens on other employees always before every show or before every night. Opening night every night. Yeah.Chris Gorham:I mean, of course it depends on the show, right? It depends on who's there and who's, but yeah, thinking back, even when I was a kid in Fresno doing local theater, they would always feed circle up right before Showtime.Michael Jamin:Is that what they call, is there a name for this circle up? What is it?Chris Gorham:No, no. That's just what I'mMichael Jamin:Using. So there's no nameChris Gorham:For you get in the huddle. You get in the huddle.Michael Jamin:But I really thought, I still remember it. I was touched by it that this is something that you guys did to support each other so that you could hold space and feel safe in front of a crowd and know it was a very team thing. And I was like, wow. I felt almost like I was invading it. I felt like I don't belong here because I'm not on stage with you guys. But that's what I remember. It struck me. Something else that always struck me was how well guest stars were greeted by the regular cast. That's a very, very position. You've been on both sides of that,Chris Gorham:Right? Yeah, for sure.Michael Jamin:For sure. What's that on both sides for you?Chris Gorham:I've worked on shows where I have, where series regulators never spoke to me. We were in a scene together, but outside of the scene never spoke to me.Michael Jamin:So action. And this is the first time you're talking to them.Chris Gorham:Correct.Michael Jamin:I suppose that could be good if your characters were just meeting for the first time, but is thereChris Gorham:Sure. I guess. I guessMichael Jamin:I guess.Chris Gorham:But we could, we're professionals. We could pretend. But that was pretty early in my career. Now I don't really have that experience anymore. But also, I took it with me and I made it a point, having had that happen once or twice early in my career, that once I was the series regular, I've always made it a point to never ever do that,Michael Jamin:To always welcome the guest star and just absolutely greet them. It's a hard thing to stay. I mean, think about it's the first day of school for them. Yeah. You're walking into, you don't know anybody. I,Chris Gorham:No, it's difficult enough. Like you said, this is a difficult job. And why make it harder on somebody who is coming in on the bottom of the rung of power at this show? Why would you use the very real power that you wieldMichael Jamin:Show it's It is real.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Why would you wield that to make someone who's on your team, right? Uncomfortable. Why you?Michael Jamin:But we know these actors. I'm the star. I want you. I want to remind you. It's like, dude, we know. We know.Chris Gorham:Yeah. There are people like that. I feel like that's the exception. It happens. Oh, really? But I feel like it's the exception.Michael Jamin:Interesting.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my content, and I know you do because you're listening to me, I will email it to you for free. Just join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos of the week. These are for writers, actors, creative types, people like you can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not going to spam you, and the price is free. You got no excuse to join. Go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist. And now back to what the hell is Michael Jamin talking about?One thing we also spoke about, which was very interesting to me, was I don't know what they call now, I guess, what do they call? They call it sex coordinators. What is the role for those peopleChris Gorham:Who, oh, intimacyMichael Jamin:Coordinators. Intimacy coordinators. But you mentioned that they have other functions. It is not just when two people are lying in bed, half naked. It's also for,Chris Gorham:So the way that I describe it to people who've never heard of intimacy coordinators is everyone's familiar with stunt coordinators. So stunt coordinators are brought onto a set to keep actors physically safe. Intimacy coordinators are brought onto a set to keep actors emotionally safe.Michael Jamin:And this is relatively new thing. Maybe what, five or 10 years or something? Maybe less,Chris Gorham:Right? Yes. New. And we are pushing to make them required. But one of the hurdles before we can make them a requirement like a stunt coordinator is required. One of the hurdles is actually getting enough intimacy coordinators qualified, trained and qualified to do thisMichael Jamin:Job. Are most of them, are they therapists, counselors? What's their training, do you think? No,Chris Gorham:I think a lot of them come from the acting court. Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah. BecauseMichael Jamin:You mentioned it's not just that. It's also like if you have two characters yelling at each other in a scene, no sex, they're just yelling at each other that an intimacy record will talk to you afterwards, right?Chris Gorham:Yeah. So here's a couple things that we did. I'd worked on a show where we had a scene, it was a sexual assault scene, but there were no clothes, there was no nudity and things stopped before things progressed to the point where we were physically exposed. But that kind of scene, you're very emotionally exposed, right? And this was my first time interviewing with an intimacy coordinator. I didn't really know what to expect. So there was a part of the conversation was, okay, for instance, it's written in the script that the other character is going to reach down and grab your groin. And I talked to the in music coordinator saying, I talked to the director and the director wants to see that. He said, are you comfortable with that? Here's what we have to protect you. We have a piece that's going to go between your pants and your underwear to protect your groin.And so when she grabs you, that's all she's grabbing. It was like, okay, great. That's super helpful actually. Great. I've never had that before. And it seemed like that. And it's nice. It makes me feel more comfortable. Certainly makes her feel more comfortable. Who wants to do that? Nobody. But then after the physical parts of discussion, then the conversation shifted. And she said, another thing that I've done with a lot of actors who've done scenes this, I would recommend that you put together a self-care routine for the end of the day. I was like, well, what do you mean? Like it could be anything. Whatever is going to be comforting to you. Some people, you might make a put things together. So you can draw a bubble bath when you get home. You might put together a playlist of music that makes you feel good.It might be pictures of your kids, could be whatever it is that is going to give comfort if you need it at the end of the day, because you never know what scenes like that might trigger. And that's the thing is you write scenes like this and it's necessary for the story, and you works as appropriate for the characters, but you never know what the actors as people, what their life experience has been. And they may have in their real life, been through an experience like that. And so then reenacting it can be very triggering. And it's the thing about acting when you're doing these emotional scenes, be it anger or big crying emotion, your body doesn't know you're pretending.Michael Jamin:Exactly.Chris Gorham:Exactly. So you mentally, well, this is pretend none of this is real. We're on a set crew numbers and friends, but your body doesn't know the difference. Once you're experiencing those emotions, you are experiencing those emotions and you never know what it's going to bring up. So that kind of care, emotional care, I thought is really great.Michael Jamin:And it's like, you'll do this just so people are aware. If you have a scene where you're screaming and yelling or sexually assaulting someone or whatever, and your adrenaline's pumping and whatever, your, not hormones, but cortisol. Cortisol is racing, whatever. All this stuff is going through your head and your body doesn't know, and you're doing the scene a dozen times and it's very hard. I feel it's must be hard to wash that out of your system.Chris Gorham:Can be. It can be. I mean, that's the thing. And it's different for everybody. I ended up, I was okay at the end of the day. I was exhausted, but I felt okay. But I was glad that I'd put some thought into, if I'm not feeling okay, here's what I'm going to do, it's going to help me feel better. And just having thought about it, I think just helped.Michael Jamin:No, I don't think I've ever worked with an intimacy coordinator because in comedy we don't really do a lot of that. But is it always a sexually charged? Is that what the line is? It's not just drama. There always has to be some kind of sexual element when they're brought in. Is that what itChris Gorham:Is? That's certainly how it started. And I think now it's one of the things, it's still new. We're figuring out when it, certainly on the sexual stuff, I'm trying to think. It was interesting. There was a resolution. I think there was a resolution that's going to be coming up the convention. There's lots of conversation about intimacy coordinators. But there was some conversation that had never crossed my mind. But once I was talking to someone about it, I thought, yeah, you know what that makes a lot of sense is bringing in intimacy coordinators when you're physically with children. Physically with children. So for instance, you are playing a dad and you're working with kids and you're getting in bed and cuddling with the kids at bedtime, or you're putting your daughter on your lap to have, because they had a rough day and you're cuddling and you know what I mean? And you're having physical contact with kids to have an intimacy coordinator there just to make, because again, you don't know what people's experiences been to protect the kids so that there's a conversation and there's somebody there watching. And I thought, you know what? Smart, that's a great idea.Michael Jamin:That is a really smart idea. Because we don't know what these kids have been through. We don't know.Chris Gorham:And again, most actors, most people in the world are caring, kind, certainly empathetic. That's their wholeMichael Jamin:Job. That's the job.Chris Gorham:But just like any other profession, some people need help. Some people don't always have the best intentions, and some people don't always behave well. And so it's important. So yeah, I thought that was just such a good idea.Michael Jamin:I totally agree. We also spoke about how you handle it when you are working with an actor who maybe isn't as professional or prepared as you are in the scene and what you do. I thought it was interesting what you had to say.Chris Gorham:Okay, so huge pet peeve. For me. It's like, no, it really bugs me when you're working with someone who hasn't bothered to learn their dialogue. So that's a huge No-no. But then sometimes you are working with an actor who just isn't great, who just for whatever reason isn't great. So my strategy for dealing with that is I just basically start acting to an X. I just don't, whatever they're giving me is just bad. What I know is that the editor is going to cut around the bad performance and they're going to use me. So it's even more important for me to stay completely engaged in the scene. And it's an extra level of acting challenge because then you're acting. It's like, I don't know. It's working on one of the superhero movies or something where you just start treating them like a tennis ball and you do the scene regardless because you can't let them affect your performance. Your performanceMichael Jamin:PerformanceChris Gorham:Has to be there.Michael Jamin:But let's say you were working with a casting director. I've worked with many, obviously many, and some cast directors, they'll read with you, and some of them are not great actors. NoChris Gorham:Read bad.Michael Jamin:And then you have, as an actor, you were trained to react and to what they give you, but how do you deal with it when they're not giving youChris Gorham:Enough? It is. It's really hard. It's one of the nice things about this whole self take resolution is that's kind of taken out of it because you've got, hopefully you have someone working with you that's going to give you something. And if not, you can do multiple takes and send the best one. It was always one of the most difficult things about auditioning in the room is when you are, and I've heard so many horror stories, I've experienced just a couple, but when you're doing your audition and the person you're reading with is garbage, and so much of it becomes, it's not like how convincing their reading is. For me, it was always a rhythm thing. It was like they just aren't listening. And so the rhythm gets completely screwed up. And it's like,Michael Jamin:I always feel for actors when they have to do this, you have a crappy sketching director. It's like, well, what so hard.Chris Gorham:Or you look up and the casting director's like on the phone,Michael Jamin:That's even worse. EatingChris Gorham:Lunch and not this.Michael Jamin:If you prepared a scene and in this moment you're going to be hot, you're going to be yelling, and the casting director is not giving you enough for you to get angry at. So you're saying you just go ahead and do it the way you prepared, even though if the scene, but then it looks like you're almost looks like you're crazy. You're getting angry and the cast director's at the lunch. It's just something you got to deal withChris Gorham:Because that's the scene. And they're probably, even when you were in the office, usually they were recording it. Right. So all they're going to see is your side.Michael Jamin:Okay.Chris Gorham:So you have to doMichael Jamin:That's good advice.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I remember, this is years ago, we did a scene. We had this very famous actress. Actress. She was older, and we booked her and she came for the role and it was exciting to have her on set. She was very famous, but she should not be working. Her agent should not have booked her because I'veChris Gorham:Had an experienceMichael Jamin:Like that too. Really? So maybe she had dementia. I felt terrible because she clearly had dementia or early signs of dementia, so she literally couldn't remember one line. So you'd feed her the line, and even still, she couldn't remember it half a second later. And I just felt she, I didn't know what to do. I was like, she's struggling here. She's probably feels very embarrassed, very lost. Very, why did her agent send her out for this book? Maybe because she needed the insurance. I don't know. But it was a horrible situation. I felt bad all around.Chris Gorham:I've worked with an actress who a very similar situation, and they went to cue cards and they just did it line by line.Michael Jamin:Even with QI wanted to bring in cue cards. The director said, I don't want to bring q. I was like, what are you doing, dude? This is awful. I lost that fight. I thought we needed cue cards. They justChris Gorham:Shot her side line by line, and then I just did my side to an X.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. That's one of the realities of being on a TV show.Chris Gorham:Totally. And it's one of the, but also why it's so important to not to get, just to do, at the end of the day, be responsible for your performance and make sure that you're giving the best performance that you can give and you can't control the other stuff that's happening. And then as an actor, then trust your director and your camera operators and your review that they're going to take care of you as best that they can and your editor. But it doesn't behoove anyone to make you look like an idiot unless you're supposed to look like an idiot. Right,Michael Jamin:Right.Chris Gorham:Everyone wants to make the show. Great.Michael Jamin:Are your kids getting into acting or have they expressed any No. You said with relief. No, not in the arts at all.Chris Gorham:No, no, no, not at all.Michael Jamin:Your wife was an actor. I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm surprised that there's not that pull.Chris Gorham:Well, my oldest son is autistic. He finished high school and now he's got a part-time job like pharmacy down the street. He's doing well, and his younger brother is studying business, wants to go into real estate. Oh, good. It's like, okay.Michael Jamin:Yeah, thank God.Chris Gorham:Yeah. And then our youngest loves to sing, has a beautiful singing voice. But yeah, no, he isn't really interestedMichael Jamin:GoingChris Gorham:Into the business, which is fine. We've never put any pressure onMichael Jamin:Them. Well, sure.Chris Gorham:And had they had a passion for it, we would be supportive, but it's just not, their heartsMichael Jamin:Taken them. It's funny. I'm sure they've come to set with you seen you do it. Yeah.Chris Gorham:Yeah. They think it's boring. They're like, this is so boring.Michael Jamin:It is boring. There's a lot of boring on a set. I don't know if,Chris Gorham:Yeah, it's super boring. They've never watching things with me in it because it's weird to see your dad not being your dad. Also, another thing, thinking about it, having just talked about Stacy Linker a little bit ago, I think part of the reason they don't like going to set is because it set. I am the star and not them. SoMichael Jamin:Oh, interesting.Chris Gorham:That doesn't feel great either. It's way better at home.Michael Jamin:What is it like for you though, when you're out in public? And fame to me is, so how do you experience fame when someone comes up to you and they think they know you and they want a piece of you? What does that do to you?Chris Gorham:Well, I've been really lucky, I feel like, because kind of been able to walk the line where I've experienced being famous enough to have the paparazzi jump out and want to take my picture and talk to me.Michael Jamin:That's a lot. That's a level of fame I don't think anybody would want to have,Chris Gorham:But never to the point where it really got in the way. It was just a few. There were some moments in my career where I was famous enough that the paparazzi knew who I was and would take my picture, but never famous enough that it reallyMichael Jamin:BotheredChris Gorham:You, caused problems. Never famous enough where I needed security. Never famous enough where it got really inconvenient.Michael Jamin:But let's just say you're at a restaurant and someone wants to come up, they want to talk to you, they autographed, they want to meet you.Chris Gorham:Most of the time people get it. I'm usually out with my kids and my wife, so they understand if they're coming up and I'm with my wife and kids, that it's a little awkward for them to ask me to stop dinner with my family to talk pictures or take. So that doesn't really happenMichael Jamin:Now. Oh, that's good. I mean, Brad, I could see your family being like, oh God, we're trying to have a night. We're trying to be together.Chris Gorham:There's been moments like that, especially for the kids. Anelle it, it's always been fun. Early in my career, it was weird because we were on a show and we couldn't go to malls because kids would chase us around malls in the very beginning. But then as you get older, that happens less and less. And then it's just been, sometimes it's surprising. My kids forget for a while. We'll go a while without getting recognized at all. And then weirdly, in Chicago, weirdly, I think the last show that I was on must have lots of people watched it in Chicago. And so suddenly, anytime I'm in Chicago, I'm recognized all the time. And so It's like my kids remember. Oh, right. Dad's on tv.Michael Jamin:That's soChris Gorham:Funny. Funny. When Ethan was starting high school was when a very popular show with the high school kids had just premiered. And that was actually really difficult for him. We've talked about it since. He didn't really reveal how hard it was for him, but last year we were talking about it and he was kind of opening up and said, yeah, no, it sucked. It wasn't great.Michael Jamin:Really?Chris Gorham:You were doing that show while I was starting high school and so everyone knew who I was and everyoneMichael Jamin:Knew who all his friends and all the kids. Yeah. It's hard for a kid and itChris Gorham:Was embarrassing.Michael Jamin:Yes, it was. They were embarrassed that you were their dad.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Really? It was super embarrassing. Yeah. Well, because of what that show, because of my character on the show for high school kids, just, it was a lot. I was physically quite exposed on that show and so yeah, it was a lot. It a lot.Michael Jamin:Oh wow. We did a show with these two guys link and these were big YouTubers and they were huge. And I hadn't heard of them. I didn't know them. And then remember we'd go for the meeting and one of them said to me, you wouldn't believe this, but I can't go to Disneyland without being swarmed. That was his crowd. He's like, I know you've never seen me before, but I can't go there without being swarmed.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:It's so funny. Yeah,Chris Gorham:It's wild. Yeah. That was,Michael Jamin:It's interesting that this, go ahead, please.Chris Gorham:No, no, no, no. It was just a dumb Disneyland story. Go ahead.Michael Jamin:No.Chris Gorham:Well, the dumb Disneyland story was, there was a period in my career where working on a certain show where we could not only go to Disneyland for free, but also were given the guide and the behind we were taking care of at Disneyland, like a celebrity, which was funny because it was so, we did it a couple times, but I think even just the second time we went to Disney Disneyland, that way, it's too much. Honestly. It sounds great, and it's great the first time to be able to skip all the lines, you know what I mean? But after that, it's like, oh, there's actually way less to do at Disneyland than you think when you don't have to wait in line for anything.Michael Jamin:That's so funny. You kindChris Gorham:Of finish it all in four hours and then you're like, oh,Michael Jamin:Now what? Now what?Chris Gorham:Again?Michael Jamin:That's so funny. Yeah.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I'm always curious, I am always curious about how people experience I'm around you guys and how you guys experience fame and what is it like that parasocial relationship where people think they know you and they don't. They just know this part of you.Chris Gorham:It's different for everybody.Michael Jamin:Yeah. I always feel like it must be like, am I giving you what? When someone comes up to you, is there that thought in your head? Where am I giving you what you wanted? You just met me. Am I giving you what you wanted? Because I don't know what you wanted and am I who you wanted me to be for five minutes? Oh, that's funny.Chris Gorham:I don't think about it that way. I've just tried to be kind to people just, I just try to be kind. Just be kind. That's all. That's really all I'm thinking about is just because, listen, it could be worse. It's not terrible for people to be happy to see you generally.Michael Jamin:Right.Chris Gorham:That's not terrible. That's kind of nice. Can it be inconvenient? Sorry.Michael Jamin:Well, I saw a clip of Eve who played Jan Brady, right. And she was on the talk show. This clip was probably 30 years old or whatever, and someone in the audience said, can you just do it? Can you just say it? Can you say it right? And she's like, we knew what you wanted. We knew everyone knew. She wanted her to say, Marsha, Marsha, Marsha. And she was like, I'm not going to say it. I won't say it, and why not? And everyone was so disappointed, and I felt for her. I was like, because she doesn't want to be your performing monkey now. And that was when she was 10.Chris Gorham:Well, that's the thing too. It's like is a one you can be kind and say no.Michael Jamin:Yeah,Chris Gorham:Right. Just being kind doesn't mean you're going to say yes to every request,Michael Jamin:But that sounds like something you've maybe had a long conversation with a therapist to come to that conversation. Really? Yeah. That's something I would struggle with. Someone would say, you know, could be kind still say, no, am I allowed to? But you're saying you came to this realization on your own.Chris Gorham:I dunno. I don't know. Listen, I do see a therapist, and so maybe I don't remember having a breakthrough about that specifically, but certainly walking things through with a therapist can only help. Also, I think being a dad helps with that because in parenting, so much of the job is saying no. And that can be really hard sometimes, certainly for some people, but it's an important part of the job.Michael Jamin:Talk about how important do you think it is, and for you to either, okay. As a writer, I think it's very important to spend at least some amount of time in therapy because if you don't know yourself, how could you possibly know another character? And I wonder if you feel the same way. Same thing about acting.Chris Gorham:Oh, I've never thought about it that way.Michael Jamin:Really?Chris Gorham:Yeah. Yeah. No, I never thought about that way. But it certainly can be helpful. I mean, for the same reason. It just, it's spending that time thinking about, and sometimes it's taking that hour just thinking about the whys of things. You spend so much of your days reacting to everything and taking the time to go, okay, why did this lead to this? Why did I do that when this happened to me? And as a person, it's going to help you stay more regulated and be just healthier in life. But also, yeah, for sure. There's going to be moments when you're going to be able to understand a character brother, because you've maybe put some thought into why people doMichael Jamin:These things, why people do. Yeah.Chris Gorham:I been, one of the things I've

Religious freedom is among the most foundational human rights. So, what happens if people lose their ability to practice their religion – and is this issue on the rise? Paul Marshall, an expert in this subject, sits down to explain… Paul is a senior fellow at Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom and the Wilson Distinguished Professor of Religious Freedom at the Institute for Studies of Religion at Baylor University. He has also written more than 20 books on religious freedom, including Persecuted: The Global Assault on Christians, Silenced: How Apostasy and Blasphemy Codes Are Choking Freedom Worldwide, and Blind Spot: When Journalists Don't Get Religion.  In this conversation, we cover: Trends and patterns that indicate the decline in religious freedom.  Why Christianity is a threat to communist societies.  What radical religious movements look like in today's global climate. Why religious minorities are in danger in certain countries.  Is there a global assault on Christians? And if so, what's causing it? Join us now to learn more!To find out about Paul and his work, click here now! Episode also available on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/38oMlMr

We're BACK with another episode of I Had Trials Once!Jordan & Gaz are reunited as they sit down with former Manchester City wonderkid Paul Marshall to discuss everything from playing for England to retiring in the 7th tier of English football.The former midfielder also talks about growing up with Micah Richards & Daniel Sturridge, Manchester City's HUGE takeover, training with Carlos Tevez, Robinho & Elano as well as being tipped to be England's next superstar.Paul also explains the struggles with almost becoming a first-team star at Manchester City before ending up in non-league football just 3 years later at the age of 22.

This week's is a special - we look at the recent big conference held in London - the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship - with contributions from Paul Marshall on capitalism; Niall Ferguson on democracy; Bjorn Lomberg on climate change;  Erica Komisar on raising children; Samuel Andreyev on music; Jordan Peterson on heaven and hell; Jonathan Pageau on the supreme Good; and Makoto Fujimura on art. With music from Pink Floyd, Leonard Cohen; John Lennon; Mumford and Sons; Bob Dylan and Sovereign Grace 

I went to the ARC conference yesterday - to give it its full name the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship. It is an organisation set up by Jordan Peterson, Paul Marshall, Philippa Stroud, Alan McKormick and others to “develop a better narrative in response to life's most fundamental social, economic, philosophical and cultural questions”. I spent much of the day taking notes, and I thought I'd write them up here so that readers can enjoy a distilled version, without the rigours of having to travel to the depths of London SE and sitting through a lot of talking.“What's it like?” Merryn Somerset Webb texted on her way in that morning. “A bit like a religious gathering,” I replied, (something Tim Stanley also observed in a barbed piece in the Telegraph). I'm quite happy with that, because I am one of the believers. I have to say the organisers have put together quite a roster of speakers, one massive oversight aside, which was not having me speak.Philippa Stroud and Jordan Petersen hosted the morning events, which began with recently removed US speaker of the house Kevin McCarthy. Peterson, who had made a brave choice of suit even by his standards - and, I say with a little concern, looked exhausted  - made the point that we each have a responsibility to do our own little bit, if we are to improve things.In this Noah's Flood of podcasts through which we are currently living, I'm kind of done with conversations. So many people now just seem to be regurgitating the words of others. So few seem to say anything original or interesting. We are caught in this media merry-go-round in which everyone is just commenting on what everyone else has said and nobody actually seems to be creating anything. Moreover, I am kind of done with panels. Three guests, sitting on chairs, a host, who keeps opening it up the the audience, where the conversation then loses all direction. Give me strength. It's always a good way to go into an event with low expectations because when reality exceeds expectation you end up happy. So it was here. (Read more on the secret of happiness). Laurence Fox, who is a buddy and with whom I hung out, was in a similarly jaded frame of mind. The right is great at identifying what the problem is, he said to me over coffee and a fag, but no good at doing anything about it. The problem, I suggested, is that many don't actually know what to do, which is why so much talking goes on. Perhaps the answer lies in Peterson's solution. We each have to do our own little bit in our own little worlds, doing whatever we do. That's the nature of free markets and free everything: it starts with the individual and it is a bottom-up thing.The first panel was about narrative. That had former Aussie deputy PM John Anderson, who was excellent on the fact that in the Anglosphere, we have stopped telling our own story and, as a result, lost sight of who we are and what we stand for. This was a recurring theme throughout the day. Somali-Dutch activist, Ayaan Hersi, talking about Hamas and Islamic extremism, added that “their story is not your story and your story is not their story”, so it is never going to work. She may not have meant it, but that is actually quite a strong argument against multiculturalism. And I loved this line from US author Os Guiness: “freedom is not the power to do what you like. It is the power to do what you ought”I went into the break keen to do my own little bit and put the world right, and ran into my old boss from GB News, Angelos Frangopoulos, who was similarly invigorated. I had a good chat with him. I then ran into Jimmy Carr, of all people, who I know of old, and had a good chat with him too. I then met Holly Valance, who is a famous actress from Neighbours, if you didn't know (I didn't) and had a good chat with her about home education. So, never mind the roster of speakers, the calibre of audience was pretty good too.The next session was hosted by Fraser Nelson of the Spectator, another of the many UK media outlets which has forgone the opportunity to give me work. There was a talk by MP Miriam Cates about mental health and the decline of family. I agreed with pretty much every point she made, but don't read your speeches, speak them, Mmiriam. They have more impact when you do.Next Nelson would interview a chap over videolink to the states, Jonathan Haidt, and my heart sank. Why have I come all this way to watch a live zoom call? Guess what? It was brilliant.It was about children and mobile phones. Moral of the story? Don't let your kids anywhere near them. Mental health, depression, anxiety and suicide rates among young women  in the Anglosphere and Nordic countries are all all at all time highs. They are not so bad among religious conservatives, they are much higher in cultures where female independence is strong, especially left wing, secular liberals (who tend to be allowed on their phones more). It has rocketed since 2010 when we all got smartphones.  He talked about the importance of play amongst children, and how we have replaced a play-based childhood with a phone-based childhood. Kids see each other and socialise far less now than they used to. Kids don't need connections. They don't need retweets and likes. Even less do they need all the bullying and shaming that goes on. Tiktok messes with your mind and your ability to concentrate, but Instagram is the worst for women and mental health.Haidt's solution was not to give kids a smartphone before the age of 14, give them flip phones. No social media before the age of 16. No phones in schools, not even in your backpacks otherwise kids will find a way to feed the addiction. Get back to play. The rise in teenage suicide is perhaps the biggest problem since we wiped out polio, cholera and mass disease.Tell your mates.So to the afternoon …In the afternoon, Paul Marshall gave a brilliant talk. For someone who is supposed to be shy and retiring, he was great - and he didn't read his speech, or if he did it didn't show. He was particularly good on one of my pet hates, crony capitalism. (I even wrote a song about it). He observed how we have benefited from capitalism and free markets, peppering his talk with great historical stories. He bemoaned the conflation of capitalism with monopolistic capitalism, crony capitalism and, what he called swamp capitalism, describing US politics as “continuity swamp”, and called for a politician with strength to stand up to vested interests. He didn't say anything particularly new, but it was one of the best summaries of everything I had heard in a long time. We are both singing so loudly from the same song sheet, I felt he must have been studying my stuff (I doubt he has), though he didn't mention the zero patients in all of this: our systems of money and tax.Then there was another video link with US presidential candidate, Vivek Ramaswamy, on the campaign trail in Utah or somewhere I've never been to. He went down very well in the room too. Merryn Somerset Webb hosted a good panel on ESG investing. The S in ESG is totally subjective, said Derek Kreifels, while Terry Keeley called it the biggest misallocation of capital in history. The general takeaway is that ESG is done. The arguments have been lost, even the FT is now slagging it off. It is, I'd say, roughly where the Nazis were in 1943 after they failed to take Moscow and winter set in.Michael Shellenberger, not a man with whom I was previously familiar, was next and he came out with my line of the day. “Pull back the curtain and there is no Wizard of Oz, just Greta Thunberg with a really bad religion.”His main theme was debunking climate alarmism. He argued that carbon emissions are improving, sea levels are not an issue if the Netherlands is anything to go by. The reason northern countries are so wealthy is that the harsher conditions forced us to develop more. Deaths from climate disasters are down 90%, he said, against a population that is four times bigger. He is more worried about death from drugs. You can't say much of this on the internet though because you get censored. Climate change is a religion. Nihilism leads to secular religions, and not very good ones. There are three new secular religions: they are climate, race and gender. Climate change is also a psychopathology, and most activists have some kind of personality disorder, often narcissism. Frequently they are just spoilt children.The answers lie in increased efficiencies. The fact that the amount of land required to make the same amount of food is decreasing is good: it means more land for nature. The fact that less material is required to do stuff (eg all the things you can do on your phone, a bluetooth speaker vs a stack stereo kit from the 1980s) is another example. Think of the woman who used to have to cook food using dung and wood. Gas has been liberating for her. The solutions lie in gas and nuclear. Not in solar, the panels for which are made by slave labour in concentration camps in China, nor in wind, the blades of which do not recycle or decompose. A panel next with Alex Epstein and Marian Tupy made similar points, and was great. Epstein's argument was that so much of environmental philosophy is just anti-human. That's the underlying problem. We ignore the human flourishing effects of fossil fuel to be anti-human. While Tupy pointed how much better we are producing resources and using them so that their prices fall. Eventually we will create elements through nuclear fission or mine them in outer space where they are plentiful. I liked Tupy. Humans create as well as destroy. Atoms may be finite, but knowledge is infinite, and the more knowledge you consume, the more you end up with. We need freedom and we need population. We need the freedom to explore, the think, to invent, to experiment. And it is so much better when the market, not the government, chooses the winners. In the final session of the day, historian Niall Ferguson spoke. He described how liberal democracy, which in the context of the world today and of history, is tiny, is now under threat, both from within - so many now dare not speak or explore issues because they are scared of the backlash - and from outside. Beware the alliance between China, Russia, Iran and North Korea. I'd had enough talking by this point, so I left the auditorium, had a cup of tea and did some networking. I hope this summary was useful.In other news, I am working on a piece on S&P500, which could be set up for a good year end rally. I am also working on something to do with gold. It is finally catching a bid. New highs around the corner? Maybe. We are going to need them if juniors are to finally catch a bid.Please subscribe to this brilliant newsletter. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.theflyingfrisby.com/subscribe

The Telegraph is for sale for the first time in a generation. The new owner will become one of the most influential people on the right in Britain. Who will win the race?For the premium Tortoise listening experience, curated by our journalists, download the free Tortoise audio app. For early and ad-free access, subscribe to Tortoise+ on Apple Podcasts. If you'd like to further support slow journalism and help us build a different kind of newsroom, do consider donating to Tortoise at tortoisemedia.com/support-us. Your contributions allow us to investigate, campaign and explore, and to build a newsroom that is responsible and sustainable. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, we discuss the global assault on Christians and Christianity with Paul Marshall, a senior fellow at Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom. In addition to his work at Hudson Institute, Paul is also the Wilson Distinguished Professor of Religious Freedom at the Institute for Studies of Religion at Baylor University – and a research professor in political science… Paul is an expert in religious freedom and has written over 20 books on this subject. Some of his most popular works include Persecuted: The Global Assault on Christians, Silenced: How Apostasy and Blasphemy Codes Are Choking Freedom Worldwide, and Blind Spot: When Journalists Don't Get Religion.  Tune in now to discover: Why religious freedom seems to be decreasing worldwide.  How religious nationalism is lending to the persecution of Christians.  Specific countries where Christians are repressed.  What happens if you are accused of blasphemy in certain places.  To learn more about Paul and his work, click here now! Episode also available on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/30PvU9C

In this episode, David Yelland and Simon Lewis discuss the soft power of one of the most influential people in the United States right now. It's not a man, it's not even a very old man. It's a 33-year-old woman who seems to have Fox News, Donald Trump and the Republican Party running scared - Taylor Swift. With half a billion social media followers and a growing political influence among her fans, we look at how she might derail Donald Trump's ambitions to return to the White House.Turning to GB News after what must have been a week of crisis meetings, David and Simon spotlight the news channel's co-owner Paul Marshall, who may even be the next owner of The Telegraph newspaper and whose reputation is on the line following the disgrace of Lawrence Fox.And, they're talking Feargal Sharkey – why the pop star turned campaigner is a thorn in the side of Britain's water industry.Producer: Eve Streeter Editor: Sarah Teasdale Executive Producer: William Miller Researcher: Sophie Smith Music by Eclectic Sounds A Raconteur production for BBC Radio 4

James Peaty and John Bleasdale talk about the summer release and particularly the success of Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer.Peaty has written for publishers including Marvel Comics, DC Comics and Dark Horse Comics in the US as well as Rebellion Publishing and Titan Comics in the UK. During that time he has written for titles including The Batman Strikes!, X-Men Unlimited, Green Arrow. Supergirl, Justice League Unlimited and Doctor Who. For 2000AD he wrote and co-created Skip Tracer (with artist Paul Marshall), while for The Judge Dredd Megazine he wrote and co-created Diamond Dogs (with artist Warren Pleece).Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/writers-on-film. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

UC Today's David Dungay hosts Marcel McCann, CTO, Solgari & Paul Marshall, Strategic Partner Manager, AudioCodes.In this session we discuss the following:How flexibility and scalability have been key value drivers of the Solgari propositionWhat are execs concerned about when it comes to making CX work within the Microsoft ecosystem?How are AudioCodes and Solgari bringing differentiation to market around Teams?

James Peaty is film maker and writer. He's written for publishers including Marvel Comics, DC Comics and Dark Horse Comics in the US as well as Rebellion Publishing and Titan Comics in the UK. During that time he has written for titles including The Batman Strikes!, X-Men Unlimited, Green Arrow. Supergirl, Justice League Unlimited and Doctor Who. For 2000AD he wrote and co-created Skip Tracer (with artist Paul Marshall), while for The Judge Dredd Megazine he wrote and co-created Diamond Dogs (with artist Warren Pleece).Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/writers-on-film. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this important episode of RIMScast, Justin is joined by Paul Marshall of McGowan Program Administrators to discuss active shooter preparedness and insurance.   Workplace violence is a risk – especially in places where money is exchanged and other public-facing industries such as service and care, and hospitality and travel. In the last few years with more workplaces going hybrid, crisis risks have evolved and it is even more critical that risk professionals understand how to adapt to these changes and put the correct safeguards in place to better protect both their employees and patrons.   As the Managing Director of McGowan Program's Active Shooter/Workplace Violence/Terrorism product line for the last 7 years, Paul Marshall shares his insights on what businesses need to ask themselves following a mass shooting, how to assess and reevaluate your active shooter preparedness plan, and what we all can generally learn regarding previous active shooting incidents. Paul also lends advice regarding what can be done from an insurance perspective, how public transportation factors into emergency preparedness, and what risk professionals can do to help combat the threat of workplace violence.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About the RIMS Membership. [:14] Registration for RISKWORLD 2023 is now open! [:34] About RIMScast. [:44] About today's episode. [:53] All about upcoming RIMS webinars, workshops, events, and more! [2:00] Paul Marshall [3:00] Justin welcomes Paul to the podcast! [3:25] Paul shares about his career thus far, his role at McGowan Program Administrators, and how it relates to risk management. [4:55] Following a mass shooting, what questions should stores/clubs/offices ask themselves before reopening? [10:33] Why are restaurants unique regarding active shooter preparedness? What needs to be done differently? [14:17] Can we learn anything from previous active shooting incidents?  [19:44] RIMS plug time! All about RISKWORLD 2023 and RIMS virtual workshops. [20:52] Chris Hansen joins the podcast to share about his upcoming 2-day virtual workshop, “Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US.” Find the link to the workshop below in the show notes. [24:24] How is the insurance industry addressing these unfortunate events? [29:52] With many organizations still being hybrid, how have mass notification messaging systems evolved in the last couple of years? [32:56] When you have public transportation close to your place of business, how does that factor into emergency preparedness? [34:08] What Paul would like to see the risk profession do to help combat the threat of workplace violence. [36:22] Justin thanks Paul Marshall for joining the podcast and shares some links to take a look at in today's show notes.   Mentioned in this Episode: RISKWORLD 2023 — April 30‒May 3 in Atlanta, Georgia! Public registration is now open! Register early by Feb. 17th! Contribute to Risk Management Magazine Related RIMS Coverage: RIMS Report: Active Shooter Preparedness For Your Organization  Active Shooter Preparations Lagging, Study Finds Q&A: School Shooter Preparedness Rethinking School Shooter Response and Prevention Insurance Considerations for Shooting Incidents  RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model® RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App RIMS Buyers Guide Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information. Related RIMScast Episodes: “Public Violence and Workplace Safety with Lauris Freidenfelds” “Occupational Safety Risks in 2022 with Dave Ferro” “Terrorism and Violence Risks with Dr. Marc H. Siegel Part 1” “Terrorism and Violence Risks with Dr. Marc H. Siegel Part 2” “Active Threat Safety and Preparedness with Steve Smith and Dustin Miller of Guardian Defense” Upcoming Webinars: “Demystifying Business Continuity for Risk Managers” | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Feb. 16, 2023 “The Perfect Storm: Property Risk Strategies & The Right Solutions for You” | Sponsored by Gallagher CORE360 Insights | Feb. 23, 2023 “Deadly Weapons and Sexual Abuse Risk” | Sponsored by Beazley | Feb. 28, 2023 Virtual Workshops: Fundamentals of Risk Management | February 14‒15, 2023 | 9:00 am‒3:00 pm ET Registration Closes Feb. 13 Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Feb. 21 – 22 | 10am – 5:30pm ET | Registration closes Feb. 20 See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: “Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (NEW!) “Zurich's Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023” “Aon's 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview” “ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect “A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL “How to Reduce Lithium-Ion Battery Fire Risks” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD “Managing Global Geopolitical Risk in 2022 and Beyond” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Keeping Subcontractors Safe Through Partner Elevation” | Sponsored by Highwire “ESG: A Responsibility and a Growing Megatrend” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. “Prioritizing People: Focusing on Your Team to Deliver Exceptional Quality and Service to Your Clients” | Sponsored by Gallagher Bassett “Bermuda Opportunities in 2022 with BDA Chair Stephen Weinstein” | Sponsored by Bermuda Business Development Agency “SyncR: A Tool to Enhance Your Risk Quality & Insurance Strategy” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. “RIMScast: Navigating the Risk Landscape in 2022” | Sponsored by AXA XL “RIMScast: Prioritizing People: Expertise and Innovation” | Sponsored by Gallagher Bassett “RIMScast: Risk Findings for the Industrial & Manufacturing Industry” | Sponsored by Aon “RIMScast: Establishing the Right Assurance to Request From Business Partners” | Sponsored by HITRUST “RIMScast: Aon's 2021 Retail Industry Overview” | Sponsored by Aon “RIMScast: A Legacy of Resilience” | Sponsored by J.B. Boda Group “The Golden Era of Insurance” | Sponsored by The Hartford “Insurance Investigation Trends Happening Now” | Sponsored by Travelers “What Could a CRO Do for Your Business?” | Sponsored by Riskonnect “Hard Reality: A Look at Rising Rates in Property & Excess Casualty” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Property Valuation Deep Dive” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD “Property Loss Control Engineering” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops Upcoming RIMS — Virtual Workshops RIMS Webinars On-Demand Webinars RIMS Advisory Services — Ask a Peer Risk Management Magazine Risk Management Monitor RIMS Risk Leaders Series RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Dr. Karen Hardy of Flip This Risk! Spencer Educational Foundation RIMS DEI Council RIMS Path to the Boardroom   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on iTunes. Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   Follow up with Our Guest: Paul Marshall's LinkedIn   Tweetables (For Social Media Use):   “We started this particular coverage line [Active Shooter/Workplace Violence/Terrorism] in 2016 … in direct response to some of the shootings at that time, the lack of response from the existing coverages, and the desire to have more of a response-type coverage similar to what we saw in the cyber community about 10-15 years ago when cyber just started.” — Paul Marshall   “We've had a very successful launch of this new product line [for Active Shooter/Workplace Violence/Terrorism]. Lots of great support around the country. My main job is to underwrite and work with our insurers from submissions all the way to claims.” — Paul Marshall   “It's extremely difficult to add the necessary security … in these organizations that specialize in having a friendly atmosphere – coffee shops, restaurants, [etc]. Most of the time, they can't have someone in the front of the building wanding you before you go in as opposed to airports, sporting events, [etc]. ” — Paul Marshall

Paul Marshall and the team from CareNet share on Sanctity of Human Life.

Paul Marshall and the team from CareNet share on Sanctity of Human Life.

As we step into 2023, did you know that currently 1.3 billion Muslims do not have the freedom to choose or change their religion? Apostasy forces people to remain in Islam and blasphemy laws punish those who disagree or dare to critique it. Kamal Fahmi is our guest this episode and he founded 'Set My People Free' in 2007, a network of individuals, churches and organizations working for the freedom of converts from Islam to live and practice their new faith, to experience equality and justice in their home countries without fear of reprisals. It is hard to believe that the punishment for leaving Islam is death in 8 countries, so join us as Kamal gives the story of 'Set My People Free' and of the ongoing fight to legalise apostasy and blasphemy. Kamal Fahmi is the founder of 'Set My People Free', this organisation seeks to give Muslim people the freedom to change their faith, to live out and practice their new belief, and to experience freedom, justice and equality in their homeland as non-Muslims. 'Set My People Free' is a nonviolent movement seeking freedom, justice and equality for converts, reconciliation – not victory, and is committed to the life and teaching of Jesus Christ. Their goal is freedom for Muslim people to be able..... To change their religion or belief To worship and practice their new faith To raise their children in their new faith To marry (for women from a Muslim background to marry non-Muslim men) To have freedom, justice and equality. To abolish the crime of apostasy by removal of... Punishment of death for the act of apostasy Punishment of confiscation of the wealth of the convert Nullifying his or her marriage Punishment of disqualifying him/her of the right of the custody of his/her children Punishment of depriving the apostate from his/her right of their inheritance Punishment of discipline (alta'zir) WEBSITE: https://freedom2worship.org/ Interview recorded 15.12.22 *Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast. Check out his art https://theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com/ and follow him on GETTR https://gettr.com/user/BoschFawstin To sign up for our weekly email, find our social media, podcasts, video, livestreaming platforms and more https://heartsofoak.org/connect/ TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW (Hearts of Oak) And good evening, Hearts of Oak. Thank you so much for tuning in on another interview. And it is an absolute pleasure to have a gentleman I met, I think in Poland, maybe two months ago at the OSCE, and that's Kamal Fahmi. Kamal, thank you so much for your time today. (Kamal Fahmi) Yeah, I'm happy really to join you in this interview. It is a beautiful opportunity. (HoO) Great to have you. And the issues we're going to talk about are not ones that we offer. We discuss Islam in different ways, but to focus on apostasy and blasphemy we haven't done. So I'm looking forward to learning from you. And on the screen people can see the website, freedomtoworship.org , our viewers and listeners will find a lot of information about freedoms, looking at the Muslim world, giving stories, news items, articles. There's a whole wealth of information. I'd encourage our viewers and listeners to make use of that. But Kamal, you're the founder of Set My People Free, which is an international NGO focused on the abolition of apostasy and also blasphemy laws around the world. Maybe you can take a few moments and introduce yourself before we get onto the reason you set up Set My People Free, why it's needed. But first, if I can ask you to introduce yourself to our viewers. (KF) My name is Kamal Fahmi. Originally, I'm from Sudan. And for the last 50 years, I was evolving in missions, mostly in the Middle East. In... I was born in Sudan and then I have lived most of my life in Sudan. Started the ministry mainly to reach out to people and share the gospel with them and then later I worked in the Middle East area all the way from Bahrain to Morocco and around 2008 I was challenged by the problems people who leave Islam face especially converts from Islam to Christianity I met a couple in Yemen and they were three generation Christian but they cannot live as Christian in their own country and of course in Yemen it is death sentence for leaving Islam and so they have to be kind of underground and I was approached by the father and he asked me for help because he wanted to convince his son to to study Islam in school because without that they were getting into trouble and also he will not be able to pass his school. And so he wanted me to talk with him and to see if I can encourage him to do that. And I thought maybe there is no problem, we had people who did that in Sudan. But then when I spoke with him, I saw the Son the next day, I was touched by the Son as he was a teenager, very smart, very handsome. And I thought I would not like my daughter to go through this. To be forced to say the Shahadah, to fast and to pray. And his father is a Christian. He himself is a Christian. And the father has become a Christian when he was 19 and the grandfather was a Christian before the father and they cannot live as Christians in their own country. This kind of hit me, we  are living in 2008 and they have left Islam, became Christians but they cannot live and exist as Christians in Yemen and and they should face a death sentence by the law. And also on the side of the mother, the mother herself was a believer. Her grandfather had a problem with his knee. Somebody prayed for him. He was healed. He also became a Christian. So these three generations, they are not able to live as Christians. And somehow I said, how could this be in the 20th century? that people cannot change their belief and face this kind of challenge. And then in my mind. I started to think of different situations. When I went to Sana'a, the capital, I met somebody who was also in prison for about seven months or six months, who was a convert and he was arrested and he was in prison. He was not sentenced to death, but he was under a lot of threats. And then I saw the Mahdi Dibaj in Iran, who was also arrested just after the Islamic Revolution. He was a convert from Islam to Christianity. And he was put in jail for 10 years and he was sentenced to death, but of course they didn't apply the sentence and after a lot of international pressure he was released. And while he was in prison he said 'im not only willing to suffer for Christ, but I am willing to die.' And when he was released after 10 years, the guy who helped him to be released, got killed after two weeks, who was the pastor of the Pentecostal Church. And then later, the people said to Mahdi Dibaj, leave Iran because you will face death. But he said, I want to serve my own people, I want to share with them about my belief. And he was the head of the Bible Society. His only problem was that he was a convert from Islam to Christianity. Six months later, he was kidnapped. And a friend of mine here in Sweden, an Iranian believer said they found him cut to pieces in a plastic bag in a park. And so this started to hit me hard as I saw, as I looked at the situation. I realized there is death sentence in 12 countries, Islamic countries. They have death sentence for people who leave Islam. And then in another 12 countries, you don't have the freedom to really leave Islam. It is a crime if you leave, you face torture, you face imprisonment. And it's not for all these people who converse, but even for atheists, who just leave Islam, they'll consider apostate. So that aged me, I felt the call that these laws should be abolished. Because apostasy is against article 18, who is very clearly say that it's freedom. and belief, which include freedom of religion, freedom to change belief, freedom to practice the belief you have as an individual, as a group, and also to be able to share what you believe with others. And apostasy does not give the right for an ex- Muslim to exist. You cannot really exist in an Islamic state. They face, as I said, in 12 countries, death sentence. Because the religion is written in the identity card, you cannot really change. So your children are automatically Muslims. If you are a woman who has a Muslim background, you are automatically also Muslim. And you cannot marry a non-Muslim, but also you face harassment and legally you cannot exist. You don't have the right to exist even in countries like Jordan, Egypt, Syria and also even in Morocco you face difficulty. So that was a problem. And then of course blasphemy is another bigger issue as if you say for example I don't believe in Muhammad as a prophet of God you are considered a blasphemer and this is ridiculous because if I believe in Muhammad then I am a Muslim but I am not to believe in him as a prophet. I don't believe in him as a prophet. So even just questioning the different laws of Sharia, you are considered blasphemer. And a good example of that is the Governor of Jakarta, who was, his name was Foke, and he was a governor for four years. When he was going to be elected for a second term, the Islamist in Indonesia said he cannot be elected again because a non-Muslim cannot rule over Muslims. There was a Hadith like that. And Hadith is a law in Islam. For example, the prayer, the five prayers, are not actually in the Quran, but it is in the Hadith. And they practice the five prayers. And that Hadith was saying that a non-Muslim cannot rule over a Muslim. and Foke the governor said this is a weak hadith. Saying that it is a weak hadith was considered a blasphemy. And he was sentenced to imprisonment. I don't remember the exact number of years now but I think it was between two and five years. And he wanted to appeal, and people said to him, better not appeal because they want to execute you for this. They want to punish you by death. So he pulled back, he spent the time in prison and he was released. So from this, after he spent the sentence, and you can check this in the internet, I mean. And so from this, from sentencing this guy to prison, because saying the Hadith is weak, we said that a non-Muslim cannot rule over or rule over a Muslim was condemned for that. You know then that Islam is not really believing in democracy because there is discrimination against non-Muslims. They cannot rule over a Muslim. And the second thing is that it is blasphemy and it can be punishable to the extent of death, fortunately, because they are a little bit more moderate. You are sentenced to imprisonment. (HoO) Wow. Tell us more about those laws because people think that maybe in some countries like the Gulf states, you have more freedom. There are lots of those in the West that have gone to Dubai and UAE, obviously the World Cup at the moment is in Qatar, and they've tried to brand themselves as very open for everyone, but yet in Qatar, the death penalty is there for apostasy. Countries are are not free and they are all based on Sharia law, Islamic law. Tell us about, because most people in the West find it difficult to even understand countries that are based simply on religious texts and don't bring any other aspect in. So can you explain that, the way Islamic law is overall everything? (KF) Right. It is the Islamic law is over the Constitution actually. They have this Kyro Declaration and it speaks about freedom. They try to put all the articles which is the Universal Declaration of Human Right, but then at the end they say everything has to agree with Sharia. So it actually modifies what he said about freedom and so on but yeah this is a big problem, I have a map, you can actually look at the map in in our website where we put the countries it is in our first homepage and there is a they were about 13 countries which had descended we are thankful that Sudan had to repeal the death sentence two years ago but the problem now with the coup which happened last year there is a possibility that again as the Islamists took over again they go back to the same thing but the constitution was changed and then it was repealed. And that was a great work of our Minister of Justice at that time, who is not anymore, Nasreldin Abdelbari But the rest, there is still a number of countries which have death sentence, in their constitution. I mean, we have for example Mauritania, they have this sentence. And there is a fellow who was accused of apostasy and blasphemy, mainly because he was against slavery in Mauritania. And he wrote a short article which condemned slavery and said that Sharia condones slavery. So he was accused of apostasy for that article. He was in prison for five years in solitary confinement. He was not allowed to take showers because they said he's a kaffir, he's an infidel and they wanted to sentence him to death he said close to 1 million he said this is a quite a large number of people came out. asking his for his death this guy was released after a lot of pressure he is now living in France and his  name is Cheikh Ould Mkhaitir. So this is serious. Maybe they don't kill everyone right away. But the person, the convert is under threat the whole time. And the problem is not only the 12 countries we have in red in the map, people face danger, but actually where the law does not exist, the community does take on and apply the laws. So you have these, we call it honour crimes. They are not in any way honour. And people get killed living in the white areas, which we say that the laws give freedom for people to change. I mean, you can go and see a list of number of cases or victims who didn't survive. They were killed like the in 2017 there was a Afghani woman killed in Germany because she left Islam and the guy who killed her they said he's crazy but it is applying the apostasy law even in the white areas but then you continue to see the red it is as you said Qatar as Satan for leaving Islam. I mean, you are free if you are a non-Muslim to become a Muslim, but for a Muslim to leave, then it is a crime. It is in Yemen, it is in Somalia, it is in Iran, and it is in Pakistan for blasphemy, and it is also in Maldive Islands, it is in Brunei. But then you have other countries, It used to be United Arab Emirates, but we have discovered just at the beginning of this year they have abolished it but we are trying to find out if it is just real or it is just said that it has been done but we have checked with some people as they say they did that just this year the death sentence but we need more confirmation and to see that freedom for people to really exist because many times they don't want them to come out of of the closet. They want them to be quiet and many times they will prefer if they leave the country. But these are the countries which we still have it, the ones I mentioned now. Even Kuwait has it. This I missed it when I said the other countries and of course as I said North Sudan officially has abolished it two years ago but of course still the community puts a lot of pressure. At this point there was one convert was in jail not so long ago, the last few months, mainly because we have now a coup of Islamists who are ruling the country. But the laws have been changed already two years ago and so I hope they will not go back again to death sentence. Then you have orange countries in the map and and these are places like Egypt, I missed one country which is actually applying the death sentence now is actually Libya because there's a guy by the name of Bia has been in prison now over one month they want him to repent to release him, this is country number 10 here but he he's still in jail. And they want to execute him, he's holding to his faith, he's a convert to Christianity And it is very sad. It is not in international media. If one lady was stopped from wearing a hijab somewhere, the media are so loud and turning the world upside down, and here somebody is sentenced to death. He's still in jail, mainly because he converted from Islam to Christianity. But nobody is talking about it. It is not out in the news. It is not news at all. (HoO) Well that's why with the World Cup happening in Qatar and I thought it would be the last place I would want to go to watch any sporting event. But there were discussions on, oh there's no alcohol and complaints about that. There were discussions on LGBT rights and freedoms there, but zero conversation on that the law says you can die if you want to leave Islam. And I was frustrated watching some of the media who should know better and should have used the opportunity to talk about that injustice. But as you said, there is silence on it. (KF) Complete silence. They don't bring it up. And it is very sad. And I mean, it is quite serious. I was sitting in with a group the other day and I said there should be sanction against these countries which apply death sentence for leaving Islam. There should be freedom to believe or not to believe but they said we should not use the hammer. But I mean this is a lot of lives of people are at stake. There is lack of freedom completely. Freedom of thought and consciousness is trampled on. And the problem it is moving even towards the West, where the basis of  democracy is freedom of expression. And blasphemy, law quench freedom of expression. So you cannot say I don't believe in Muhammad, it is it is considered an insult. Or if you I don't believe in the Sharia which cuts hands off people. So this is ridiculous and I mean people are free. I mean God created us free. He gave us the choice and I mean even Jesus himself said if you want to go to hell, go to hell. The road is wide and many people are going but if you want life there is another way. So it is freedom I feel is very crucial and especially freedom of expression. We need to protect it because it is the basis for democracy and without freedom of expression there is no accountability. So analytical thinking, critical thinking is very important and crucial to talk about things, discuss things and have your opinion. The problem is we are going to a time when there is only one narrative. And this is not really the West we were thinking about or we admire where there is freedom of thought, conscious and belief and then freedom of expression and opinion. Today you cannot have your own opinion, everyone has an opinion and so that is a problem. Blasphemy law actually strips the individual from the freedom of expression. There is a very good book actually called Silence, written by Paul Marshall and Nina Shay. And they said how apostasy and blasphemy courts are silencing or taking away freedom of expression. And they have any documented cases all over the world, which is happening because of these two laws. And so if we continue, of course it is in Saudi Arabia and you have examples of people who are in prison, journalists like Raif Badawi and Yemen people are being imprisoned and killed. There was a guy who was at the age of 16 and they chopped his head, they shot him mainly because they accused him of of being an apostate and the young fellow he wrote in his fair book he said to them you accused me of apostasy you see God in the graveyard, I see God in the roses and you can look for this. His name is Omar (Mohammad Bataweel). I cannot remember his second name, but his Facebook is still there and he was at the age of 16 and he was killed in Aden. And you will find him in our booklet, victims of apostasy and blasphemy law. We have a small booklet and we have the link for it in our website. You can go there and see some of the victims. And it is sad to see the number of the victims. There was a small kid, also the age of 14, he was selling coffee in Syria during the ISIS attacks and so on. The jihadists came to him, he was selling coffee to help his family, they came to him, they said, give us coffee free. He refused to give them coffee free. And he said, if even the prophet come down, I will not give you coffee free. And this is a saying, which they normally say in Syria. When the jihadists took him and shot him, accusing him of blasphemy. So look at our booklet, victims of apostasy and blasphemy laws, you will see how this law is impacting lives of many individuals. Some lost their lives, some survived, but they went through trauma for this. We need to really stand together to see these laws abolished. (HoO) I want to bring up the website again, and that's what people will find. That's the book Kamal was talking about, Victims of Apostasy and Blasphemy, Laws and Islam, and then further down that's the map we were looking at. So everything is on the front page of freedomtoworship.org. So please do go and make use of it. Kamau, can I ask you about you taking this message out, I obviously met you at the OSCE conference, an intergovernmental conference, looking at human rights, looking at the political angle. You've been there a number of times. Do you want to let us know what you raise and the response you get every time you've been there? (KF) I think we are in a kind of a battle for heart and minds. I think most of the people have, they didn't notice, and it was an eye-opener to many. And I think there is more people today are aware of the problem. The only thing is, and of course there have been moves to try to stop it. I mean, they agree, most of the people I speak with agree this is a problem. The only thing, we are not doing anything about it. It is not out in the mainstream media. It is not an issue which is people are trying to see change. They are trying to use a carrot instead of putting pressure to see this issue change. I'm thankful that they are putting some, at this point, there is a bigger change towards protecting the freedom of expression. People realize more and more the problem. But I think they have to take a strong step to see this stopped. I feel we are in a better situation than when we started, but I still think we have a long way. When there was a problem of apartheid in South Africa, the whole world stood against that and worked for equality. Now here we have even a worse situation where you are not allowed to even exist as a former Muslim. You are not allowed to exist. And you have in front of you 12 countries where you have death sentence. We need to take bold steps to put pressure so Article 18 and 19 in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights be applied. Because without taking away these laws, you will still have problem with the issue of jihadists, with the issue of terrorists, because here they want to enforce the application of these laws. But we need to stand and say enough is enough with this. This has to stop. We have the right to ask for the application of Article 18 and 19. So there has not been strong steps to see this stop. You see it with what happened with Charlie Hebdo and other journalists. I'm very thankful that the fresh government showed what the caricatures and so on. But I think we need more steps to put pressure and say what is right is right, what is wrong is wrong. And really stand behind the freedom of thought and conscious and belief and freedom to live, freedom not to believe, freedom of expression and opinion. And I think we need to take more strong steps saying this is wrong. Lately there were 25 countries which have signed a letter condemning apostasy and blasphemy law. And that was through the ministerial for religious freedom and this was done like three years ago. Of Trump when Brownback was the ambassador for the religious freedom. And lately Australia and are heading, spearheading with Holland, a campaign to end killing for religion. And which is mainly working to abolish apostasy and blasphemy law. So there is steps like this, but I think we need to take more steps to sanction the countries which apply it. Because without sanctioning it and condemning it openly, this will continue. And this impact lives of many people. I mean, you see what happened to Salman Rushdie now in New York. And this is again application of blasphemy law. And you cannot kill somebody for the way he thinks or for not believing. And many ex-Muslims are facing these threats worldwide. They are under protected by the police. Even here in Sweden, they are protected because of fear of people killing them. And so, but we have to stand together and say enough, enough with this and this has to be stopped. I mean there is no serious steps which has been taken to condemn this issue, condemn the issue of apostasy and blasphemy law, but I think people are more aware of  it. Trying to do some steps, but as I said before, they want to use more, this using a carrot instead of saying this is wrong and this has to be changed and there must be some pressure applied, for the sake of people who suffer under this. (HoO) But I, I also think it's, you look at the laws and you're talking about the legislation in Muslim countries, but also you refer to the freedoms in the West and we think people are free to choose and change their religion. But I've talked to a number of converts from Islam to Christianity and they have to be extremely careful. They have been attacked verbally, they've been attacked physically. And I think, well, this is happening in England, which supposedly has freedom, but you realize that same understanding, that same belief system that restricts freedoms in Islamic Countries still is within Islamic communities here in the UK and it seems to be often the law of Islam is the one that reigns and not always the law of the land in those communities. (KF) This is very true because we have a friend here who is a convert. that person had to be lucky because that person could not have passed, dot their degree in their studies for Islam inside Europe, if they knew their standards, that they are converts. They had to do it really very, very low key. That is in Sweden. And many actually under protection. And so you are right. You are right. They face it even here. But I think we need to condemn it more openly and say enough with it. And that really to work hard to punish any perpetrators or some people who does it. I mean, even like Nigeria, they have death sentence in the North. And now there has been a lot of attack against non-Muslims within Nigeria. And nobody is speaking against what is happening there. It is the main cause of it is again apostasy and blasphemy law and they are putting pressure on non-muslims to Christians especially. I mean blowing churches, attacking taking their land and all these are initiated by these laws and again there is no international condemnation of this. They use other reasons to say this is happening. And I mean, it is a problem. And even just now, this time, even in Sudan, there is a man who has been a convert to Christianity, who is a pastor in the church and God has been using him to heal people. He healed some of his family, so other other Muslim flocked to the church to get healing, and God has been healing them. And then this guy was arrested and they accused him of being a witch. And mainly because they said he's a Christian witch, and he was imprisoned. Unfortunately, the laws because now are more free. There was a court case, he was released, but again he's under threats now by some of the Islamist community for what he is doing and I mean he has not done anything bad and mainly because he is a convert and because somehow lives of people have been changed, people have been flocking there because they saw God doing something and that has made these people more open towards Christianity which made the community upset. And so even as you said before when... so we need we need to put pressure, these laws to be applied and that to stand together to express the importance of freedom of expression and the right to say I don't believe in Muhammad as a prophet of God. Because I mean there is no force. You should have the freedom to believe or not to believe and which is the Creator has given this us this freedom and we have to have it and I think the freedom of choice is very key in democracy if you don't have the freedom of choice then forget it and if you die because you choose something different That is really awful. So I think we need to see more people work for this. (HoO) I just want to ask you about where, this will go just before Christmas. We are here, you said you're in  Sweden, I'm in the UK, and we have freedoms here and we've talked a lot about freedoms and freedoms that are not afforded to those who live in the Muslim world. Tell us what that means for someone who is a Christian living in many of those countries. We have the joy of being able to meet with other people, other Christians, many people who are not Christians still celebrate the joyous time of Christmas. And I guess in many Middle Eastern countries, in many Islamic countries, it's very different and you cannot celebrate this time as you would here in the West. (KF) Yeah, I mean like Brunei for example, some years, two or three years ago, they just forbid celebrating Christmas in Brunei, completely, for everybody. And of course there is minority of Christians who come who are living there and working there. I mean in Sudan before the fall of this Islamic government, they... people were going around on the streets, we went one Christmas in 2017, I remember, no not 2017, about 2000, maybe I think 2007, and they didn't want people to say Merry Christmas to the Christians, they don't want people to celebrate it. But, I see in many countries for the convert, they cannot openly celebrate. Converts who have come to know Christ, yeah, they cannot openly celebrate Christmas. In these red countries and also in the countries where it is illegal. There was a Muslim guy who converted to Christianity. Wanted to go into a church in Egypt. He was arrested by the police because they discovered he's a Muslim going to a church. He was Sudanese. They put him in jail. They sent him back to Sudan. And that was like around, it was like 80 years ago. And so they don't have the freedom to celebrate as converts. They have problem to go to churches. But I think in a way, some of these countries, the orange, the red, foreigners are celebrating. But local people who are converts, they cannot really openly celebrate Christmas and go to church or meet together and worship openly. They mostly meet in secret. But I mean at least some of course they have decorations, Christians are celebrating where traditionally there were Christians. I mean the Christians from Christian background in Egypt or in Jordan or in Syria, they celebrate Christmas in Iraq. But if they are a convert they have difficulty to do that. But some countries have made it even difficult for even the minorities or the Christians from other countries who are living in their country to celebrate. But converts, they don't have the chance at all to do that. And so it had been going in a way from one country to the other. I mean, I passed through Qatar once, flying back during Christmas. They had no decoration for Christmas in the airport, not anywhere. I don't know how it is with the foreign churches. If they had, they can celebrate in the church, maybe in their own meeting or within the church compound, maybe in their homes, it should be possible. But there were no signs of celebrations. other airports in Dubai and so on you find a lot of decorations and Christmas things I think and the local, the minorities who are from other countries also they celebrate but I think converts always will have problems, I know Brunei for sure doesn't allow Christmas celebration because it came out strongly, I think Somalia will be another place which will be very difficult to celebrate Christmas. The same is with Mauritania and of course even in Nigeria they face problems because the churches are attacked many times they are doing this and so it is hard to say Tunisia maybe is more open, we don't have it  here with any of the colours, but still I think they face pressure from the community, but according to the law, now the church has been accepted in Tunisia. But as I think generally, where there is traditional Christians from the beginning, because actually Christianity started in this area and it has died in many of these countries, but where it still exists, they celebrate. But for comfort, it is very difficult. Most of them, they have to be underground in the orange and the red countries in the map. They cannot really have the freedom to openly express their faith in Christ. It is also similar sometimes, of course, even in the West, you find a convert from Christianity or from atheist to Islam, they always have their faces out that they speak. But if you have a convert from Islam to Christianity, they don't appear. Because then their life is in danger. And of course, you had the story of the guy who had Merry Christmas in his shop who was killed even in London once. So it is harder for the converts or for the more tolerant people within, but I think in a number of these countries where they were traditionally Christians sometimes of course because we have to separate between somebody, I mean it is like Somebody saying all the West are Christians of course some aren't, the same are some of the Muslims are not practicing Muslims, they're more terrorists, but if they are serious is their faith they can be dangerous. So it is not... so you can be nominate and some of these maybe are more open and tolerant with others and open to have relationship and I mean through my life of course I had a lot of friends who are from a Muslim background but the thing is the ideology we have to think about and the more you are practicing the ideology then you are in more trouble and difficulty, I mean you cause more problems. So we have always to think of that. So apostasy and blasphemy law are part of the Sharia and when they are applied then of course it is a big problem and it is actually applied as we saw here in these 12 countries where you have death sentence for leaving Islam. And other countries where it is a crime to do that. But I think where there is traditional Christians, there is more freedom because the church existed there for a long time. (HoO) Kamal, thank you so much for your time. It's a subject that does not get a lot of attention, and that's why I was very keen to have you on. To the viewers and to the listeners, please go and make use of the website, freedomdoworship.org. You can sign up to the newsletter, you can donate, you can support the work there, and all the news items information is there. So it is a great resource to help educate those of us who live in countries that are free and realize that the world isn't all like that. So Kamal, thank you so much for your time today. It's been wonderful to have you on. (KF) I would like just to end with one sentence. What Martin Luther King had said once, he said, "at the end, I will not remember the words of my enemies, but the silence of my friend." And my plea for whoever watched this program, to speak up for justice, for these people who are facing death threat through their life, just because they refuse to believe. Or because they wanted to change, they wanted to become Athiests, they wanted to become Christians, they wanted to leave Islam. And so, please speak out, because injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. And we need to stand for justice, for freedom, and please stand for the application of article, universal declaration of human rights article 18 and 19. (HoO) That's a perfect way to end, to call for people to get involved and to speak up. Thank you so much.

Over half of the world's population doesn't know how to swim. But it wasn't always that way. Swimming has been practiced by humans for thousands of years for fun, health, survival, competition and community. Swimming has also been used by some cultures to differentiate themselves from others - the swimmers from the non-swimmers. OPB's Paul Marshall talks with Bonnie Tsui, author of “Why We Swim,” and Karen Eva Carr, author of “Shifting Currents: A World History of Swimming,” about what swimming can tell us about ourselves as individuals and as a culture.And last year, OPB's Crystal Ligori spoke with Rivka Galchen, author of “Everyone Knows Your Mother is a Witch,” and A.K. Blakemore, author of “The Manningtree Witches.”

Karen Eva Carr and Bonnie Tsui discuss swimming and their latest books in this #PDXBookFest conversation with OPB's Paul Marshall.

Georgetown University professor Joshua Mitchell talks with ReligionUnplugged.com about his new book, “American Awakening,” where he explores how identity politics in America bear a some resemblance to Christianity but miss vital concepts such as forgiveness. Mitchell speaks with Paul Glader and Paul Marshall about the book thesis and Mitchell's observations and concerns about American life. 

Two million employees in the United States are impacted by workplace violence (including gun violence) each year accounting for about 15% of all workplace fatalities; putting the United States at the highest end of the risk spectrum across the globe.  Without any success in implementing policies at the societal level to combat these tragedies, employers are left to demand change and try to address this increasingly frequent risk at an individual company level.  While this challenge is both daunting and sad, employers should make every effort to include this potential in a risk management strategy to protect the safety of employees and guests.  Learn more about the issues, challenges, and some possible steps from Paul Marshall, leader of the active shooter insurance program at McGowan Program Administrators.  

Paul Marshall is a police officer, runner, and cyclist. He joins the show to talk about:-How we got connected to him-Running and "trail therapy"-Life as a police officer and dealing with stereotypes-The story behind the "Hug Felt Around the Bay" FOLLOW US AT: Instagram: @connectablepodcast YouTube: Connectable Podcast Facebook: @connectablepodcast Twitter: @connectablepod  If you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you check out the Not Here to Judge Podcast hosted by Deb McCollum. Instagram: @notheretojudgepodcast  #connectablepodcast