Podcast appearances and mentions of Spalding Gray

What the hell is going on with Steven Soderbergh's 1996 super-low-budget labor of love comedy SCHIZOPOLIS? Our returning guests, the filmmakers and all-around handsome devils Jordan Fish and Ray Tintori of the To The White Sea Podcast, help us get to the bottom of it. Is this quietly a devastating analysis of a failed marriage starring the director and his real-life ex-wife Betsy Brantley? Or is all that drowned out by too much proto-Random Humor and OK Cola-style 90s disaffection? Is Jake even capable of being nice about this movie? Listen to find out!   Further Reading: Getting Away With It by Steven Soderbergh Steven Soderbergh: Interviews, ed. Anthony Kaufman "E Unibus Pluram: Television and U.S. Fiction" by David Foster Wallace "David Lynch Keeps His Head" by David Foster Wallace   Further Viewing: A HARD DAY'S NIGHT (Lester, 1964) MONTY PYTHON'S FLYING CIRCUS (McNaughton/Davies, 1969) PUTNEY SWOPE (Downey, 1969) THE KENTUCKY FRIED MOVIE (Landis, 1977) GRAY'S ANATOMY (Soderbergh, 1996) LOST HIGHWAY (Lynch, 1997)   Follow Jordan and Ray: https://linktr.ee/tothewhitesea   Follow Pod Casty For Me: https://www.podcastyforme.com/ https://twitter.com/podcastyforme https://www.instagram.com/podcastyforme/ https://www.youtube.com/@podcastyforme Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/PodCastyForMe Artwork by Jeremy Allison: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyallisonart    

What to do next after KAFKA doesn't quite hit...how about adapting a boyhood memoir by the guy who helped Paul Newman bottle his salad dressing? We continue Soderbergh's less-remembered beginnings with 1993's KING OF THE HILL, a subtly brutal Depression-era bildungsroman in which a boy gets so hungry he eats pictures of food - and joining us is film writer Jason Miller! Listen along for a discussion of cinematographer careers, macroeconomics, proper marbles technique, and Spalding Gray. Good ep, even without Boomhauer and all the rest of those guys! Further Reading: King of the Hill: A Memoir by A.E. Hotchner "King of the Hill: Alone Again" by Peter Tonguette "A Multi-Storied Life" by Susan Wooleyhan Caine Further Viewing: EMPIRE OF THE SUN (Spielberg, 1987) HOPE AND GLORY (Boorman, 1987) THE LONG DAY CLOSES (Davies, 1992)   Follow Jason Miller: https://linktr.ee/millerjeremyjason   Follow Pod Casty For Me: https://www.podcastyforme.com/ https://twitter.com/podcastyforme https://www.instagram.com/podcastyforme/ https://www.youtube.com/@podcastyforme Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/PodCastyForMe Artwork by Jeremy Allison: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyallisonart  

The story of two journalists reporting on a common cause despite their vastly different backgrounds is what gives NO OTHER LAND its narrative shape — and is what inspired us to pair it with 1984's THE KILLING FIELDS — but the Oscar-nominated documentary is at heart a story about activism, and the weight of maintaining hope amid a generations-spanning conflict with no resolution in sight. We're joined again this week by Slate culture writer Sam Adams to discuss how NO OTHER LAND makes the political personal, then bring THE KILLING FIELDS back in to compare these two portrayals of journalism from very different moments in journalism history, and the quandaries of privilege and guilt that accompany partnerships of unequals. Then in Your Next Picture Show we tout SWIMMING TO CAMBODIA and Jonathan Demme's ability to spin Spalding Gray's monologue about his bit role in THE KILLING FIELDS into a BTS feature like none other. Intro: 00:00:00-00:02:25 No Other Land discussion: 00:02:26-00:24:28 Connections: 00:24:29-00:46:00 Your Next Picture Show/Goodbyes: 00:46:01-00:56:35 Please share your thoughts about THE KILLING FIELDS, NO OTHER LAND, or anything else in the world of film, by sending an email or voice memo to comments@nextpictureshow.net, or leaving a short voicemail at (773) 234-9730. Next Pairing: Carson Lund's EEPHUS and Ron Shelton's BULL DURHAM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steven Soderbergh's film adaptation of Spalding Gray's monologue about avoiding an eye surgery, Gray's Anatomy (1996) girds Gray's George Carlin-esque delivery in some dynamic visuals and inter-cuts them with stark black and white testimonials of people recounting there own terrible eye injuries. Perhaps not for the squeamish, but it's still an engaging story. I don't comment on it in the episode, but Gray gives a shout out to Columbus, Ohio, hotdog institution Phillips Coney Island, which closed in 2022 after 110 year of slinging wieners and probably causing some eye injuries of their own doing that.

Many documentaries are introductions to their topics, assuming the audience has limited or even no knowledge of the subject. Steven Soderbergh's 2010 documentary about his late friend monologuist Spalding Gray, And Everything is Going Fine, is not. Soderbergh himself says it's for people who are already familiar with Gray. Since this is our introduction to him, it's a bit of a rocky start. Next week we'll talk about Gray's Anatomy (1996), Soderbergh's film of one of Gray's monologues, but this week it's all context for a body of work we know nothing about. That doesn't mean we aren't engrossed in it though. Well, at least one of us.

We're halfway through Steven Soderbergh's filmography, and it's time to rank what we've seen so far! What'll make the cut? OUT OF SIGHT? OCEAN'S 11? KAFKA?? Michael and Keir also forge ahead, discussing Soderbergh's second Spalding Gray documentary, AND EVERYTHING IS GOING FINE. Social media Instagram @thefilmographers Twitter/X @filmographerpod Letterboxd @filmographers YouTube @TheFilmographersPodcast Website: https://filmographerspodcast.com/ Credits Keir Graff & Michael Moreci, hosts Kevin Lau, producer Gompson, theme music Cosmo Graff, graphic design

Jimmy Tingle and I discuss his upcoming one man show, "Humor and Hope for Humanity" at the SoHo Playhouse in NY, the influence of Jackie Mason, Lily Tomlin, Spalding Gray and John Leguizamo, stand-up, Boston Comics, The Ding Ho, Steven Wright, Paula Poundstone, Denis Leary, When Standup Stood Out, Competing with yourself and more! In his newest one person show, comedian and political humorist Jimmy Tingle takes audiences on a very funny and soul-searching journey from his Boston roots as an aspiring comic and street performer to network TV [“60 Minutes II”; “The Tonight Show” with Johnny Carson; HBO; “Veep”] to The Kennedy School of Government at Harvard and a decision to run for Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts. The show will speak to the issues of the day, including the upcoming presidential election with comedy, compassion, and common sense while delivering a humorous yet passionate and purpose driven performance. If laughter is the best medicine than Jimmy is the Surgeon General of humor. Clean, funny, and hopeful, Jimmy will make you laugh, think, and feel better. Just what the doctor ordered!   For more info go to https://www.sohoplayhouse.com/upcoming-events/jimmy-tingle

In 1997, Steven Soderbergh released not one but TWO films that failed to find an audience. The first was Schizopolis, which we covered in last week's episode. Gray's Anatomy, a kind of concert film for monologuist Spalding Gray, was the second. Despite their lack of commercial success, both movies were extremely important to the filmmaker's growth. But, alas, only one showcases Spalding Gray zestfully saying "macular pucker" more times than anyone probably needs to hear.    Social media: Instagram @thefilmographers Twitter/X @filmographerpod Letterboxd @filmographers YouTube @TheFilmographersPodcast Do you have a fun fact, piercing insight, or psychic prediction about what Steven Soderbergh will do next? Email us: thefilmographerspodcast@gmail.com Thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and review! Credits: Keir Graff & Michael Moreci, hosts Kevin Lau, producer Gompson, theme music Cosmo Graff, graphic design

In this episode, we invite Professor John Rucynski back to discuss his book, Bridging the Humor Barrier: Humor Competency Training in English Language Teaching, and more generally the topic of joking in Japan. John is an associate professor at the Center for Language Education at Okayama University. His main research interest is exploring the role of humor in foreign language acquisition and intercultural communicative competence. In addition to editing two volumes about this passion, he has written numerous articles and given conference presentations around the world. His mission going forward is to at least slightly disprove the maxim that “Nothing is as unfunny as trying to explain why something is funny.” To learn more about John and his work, check out the following books and articles:Bridging the Humor Barrier: Humor Competency Training in English Language Teaching (Rowman & Littlefield; with Caleb Prichard)New Ways in Teaching with Humor (TESOL Press)Is This Thing On? Teacher Views of Incorporating Humor Into Online Language Classes (The Language Teacher, with Peter Neff)L2 Learners' Ability to Recognize Ironic Online Comments and the Effect of Instruction (System; with Caleb Prichard)Implementing Humor Instruction into English Language Teaching (English Teaching Forum; with Caleb Prichard)The English Classroom as “Warai no ba”: Instructor Views on Humor and Language Learning in Japan (International Journal of Educational Research; with Peter Neff)Second Language Learners' Ability to Detect Satirical News and the Effect of Humor Competency Training (TESOL Journal; with Caleb Prichard)Japanese Perceptions of Humor in the English Language Classroom (HUMOR; with Peter Neff)Using The Simpsons in EFL Classes (English Teaching Forum)The Deep in Japan Podcast is completely independent and crowd-funded, so if you like what you hear, please give thought to supporting us.The outro was American Joke Man by JAM. Don't know who Spalding Gray is? You're not alone. I thought John was referring to a crayon color. For context, check out his 1987 masterpiece, Swimming to Cambodia.Got something to say? You can reach me at the following:www.facebook.com/groups/deepinjapan/ deep.in.japan.podcast@gmail.comAs always, thank

In this episode of the show we are finally coming to an end of our epic journey through the cinema of Steven Soderbergh we have been on for the last thirteen months! We are also plugging a few blind spots here by discussing the two Spalding Gray movies he made (Gray's Anatomy and And Everything Is Going Fine), just to make sure we have covered his entire feature output. We also share our reflections on this journey, opine on what we learned about Soderbergh, how our appreciation for this man developed over the course of this past year, all in addition to sharing our top 10 Soderbergh movies! Tune in and enjoy! Hosts: Jakub Flasz & Randy Burrows Intro: Infraction - Cassette Outro: Infraction - Daydream Head over to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠uncutgemspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to find all of our archival episodes and more! Follow us on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@UncutGemsPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠), IG (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@UncutGemsPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Facebook (@UncutGemsPod) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Buy us a coffee over at Ko-Fi.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (ko-fi.com/uncutgemspod) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our Patreon!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (patreon.com/uncutgemspod)

On this week's episode, I have actor Chris Gorham, (Out of Practice, The Lincoln Lawyer, NCIS: Los Angeles and many many more) and we dive into the origins of his career. We also discuss the work-life balance he has with his family and some of the things he wishes more actors were aware of while filming. There is so much more, so tune in.Show NotesChris Gorham on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisgorham/Chris Gorham IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330913/Chris Gorham on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_GorhamMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletterAutogenerated TranscriptChris Gorham:But in getting to know them and talking to them, Almost all of them had day jobs, like worked for the city, Worked, worked for construction crews. They had full-on-day Jobs. Some of them were Entrepreneurs, some of them worked in government. And that was a New idea to me because that hadn't been my experience here. But as the income and equality has increased so dramatically, It feels like that's where our business has been going, where everybody has to have another,Michael Jamin:You are listening to, what the hell is Michael Jamin talking about? I'll tell you what I'm talking about. I'm talking about creativity. I'm talking about writing, and I'm talking about reinventing yourself through the arts.Chris Gorham:Like my backdrop, this is my, oh, I love it. Official SAG after LA delegate backdrop that we used him during the convention.Michael Jamin:I know you're a big show. We're starting already. I'm here with Chris Gorham, and he is an actor I worked with many years ago on a show called Out of Practice. He's one of the stars that was a show with starting Henry Winkler, stocker Channing, Ty Burrell, Chris Gorham, and Paul Marshall. It was a great show on CBS and only lasted a season. But Chris, Chris is about as successful working actors as you can, short of being like someone like Brad Pitt, who's known across the world. You've done a ton of TV shows, and I'm going to blow through them real fast here.Chris Gorham:Okay. You can, I can't talk about them still, but your strike is over so you can,Michael Jamin:Yeah, right, because Chris is, I guess he's in sag and actually you're one of the members, you're one of the, what do you call yourself, the king? SoChris Gorham:I'm the king of SAG aftra. No, I was elected to be on the LA local board and also elected as a delegate. So that's what this background was. Our official LA delegate background forMichael Jamin:The research delegate for for the model. What does that meanChris Gorham:For the convention? Yeah. It's kind of reminiscent of Model un. So it's the convention that happens every two years where all the delegates get together and we elect the executive vice president, and there's certain offices that get elected by the delegate membership.Michael Jamin:I don't think we have that in the Writer's Guild. I think we have a direct democracy. You, I guess have a representative democracy.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Yeah. It's a much bigger union. How bigMichael Jamin:Is it? How big do you know? AboutChris Gorham:160,000 members.Michael Jamin:Wow. Okay. Members, but that's active members. And what do you have to be to be an active member?Chris Gorham:What do you have to be? DoMichael Jamin:You have to sell? You have to work a certain amount or something?Chris Gorham:No, once you're in, you can stay in as long as you pay your duesMichael Jamin:Every year. Oh, okay. But then that doesn't mean you get health. You have to qualify for health insurance and stuff like that. Correct.Chris Gorham:Well, it's a big part of the strike. It's one of our big talking points really is only about 13% and just under 13% earn enough to qualify for our healthcare plan. And I mean, that's only about $26,700 a year to qualify for healthcare.Michael Jamin:That's a big deal. I mean, healthcare, healthcare. So most people don't realize this, and it seems so naive to say this, but I get so many comments when on social media, all these actors are millionaires. Dude, what are you talking about? You can be a working actor and book two gig. You're lucky if you do two gigs a year. AndChris Gorham:Well listen, it goes to the heart of what this strike is about is that it's worse than people even think because just to what's the best way to talk about it? So a big part of our asked during this negotiation is a big increase in the contributions to our health and pension plan by the producers. And the reason is that they haven't increased it in a long, long, long, long time. So for instance, one person could work, let's say you got hired to do an episode and got paid very well, right? For one episode. Let's say you're getting it, it's an anthology show. They're paying the top two people like series regulars, and you're getting a hundred grand for one episode. So you would think a hundred thousand dollars. That is a lot of money for one episode. If I'm doing that, I am clear. Definitely qualify. You do not qualify for healthcare because you've only done one episode and the producers only have to contribute up to a certain amount. So even though you've made a hundred grand in one episode, you still have to book another job, at least one moreMichael Jamin:And clear,Chris Gorham:Not going to qualify for healthcare.Michael Jamin:I've produced a lot of shows. I don't recall ever paying a guest star anywhere close to a hundred thousand an episode. No, not even close.Chris Gorham:No, no. And the minimums have, right now, I think for a drama, the minimum's around $9,000, maybe a little more than that for an episode for top of Show guest start like the top paid guest shows on those shows. Yeah, you can't. And it's become almost impossible to negotiate a rate higher than the minimums.Michael Jamin:You can have a quote and they go, well, that's too bad. This is what we're paying you.Chris Gorham:Correct. This is what we're paying you.Michael Jamin:Let me just run through some of yours so people know who we're talking about because some people are listening to it. So Chris is, I'm going to blow some of his bigger parts, but he works so much. So let's start with Party of Five where you did four episodes, which I love that show. I just had to mention that, but of course, popular. You did a ton of those. Felicity, remember that? Odyssey five, Jake 2.0, which you started in medical investigation out of practice, which I mentioned Harper's Island Ugly Betty, Betty Laa, which I loved, of course, covert Affairs and what else? I'm going through your list here. Full Circle two Broke Girls. You worked with two of the broke girls and insatiable the Lincoln lawyer, and that doesn't include any of your guest chart. So you are incredibly successful actor and you've strung, actually, I want to hit on something. Sure. So this is a little embarrassing on my part. We had a technical, this is our second interview because I had technical errors on my point. I'm not that good with technology, even though I've done well over a hundred episodes of this, and Chris graciously allowed me to do this over. But one of the things that you said, the thing that struck me the most during our last talk, which I found incredibly interesting and humble, I said to you, Chris, how do you choose your roles? And do you remember what you said to me?Chris Gorham:Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. I said, I should be so lucky. Yeah. The reality is, it's like actors like me. I've had a lot of conversations with actors like me who star on television shows, multiple television shows, and we all joke about how many times we've been asked in interviews. The questionMichael Jamin:Really,Chris Gorham:Why did you choose this to be your next project?Michael Jamin:Right. Well, I wanted to eat. That's why.Chris Gorham:Yeah, yeah. Because I think journalists sometimes forget, and they think that we're all to use your example, Brad Pitt, and that we're being sent scripts and we get to choose what our next project is, but in reality, that is not at all. What happens, what happens for the vast majority of us is we are sent auditions. Sometimes we get the scripts, sometimes we don't. And we put ourselves now what used to be going to the casting office. Now we put ourselves on tape and we send it off into the void, and we hope that we get hired.Michael Jamin:And you'll work on a part. When you do get the script, how long will you spend preparing for that before you submit your tape?Chris Gorham:Oh, it depends mostly on two things. One, how many pages it is, and then it depends on how well written it's, to be honest. You've heard this before.Michael Jamin:Go ahead. Tell me.Chris Gorham:The better the writing, the easier it is to memorize.Michael Jamin:Right. And explain why that is.Chris Gorham:Well, the reason is is because it makes sense. If it's written like a human being talks, then the next sentence follows from the sentence before. If you understand the emotion of what's going on, then it just makes sense and the dialogue flows and it's just so much easier to memorize. The stuff that's always the hardest is when you're the character that's laying pipe and you're just spewing out exposition and it's not really coming. Listen, the good writers are always trying to tie it down to that emotional reality, but sometimes you got to lay pipe, and that's stuff's always the hardest, particularly if it's a bunch of medical jargon or legal jargon. That kind of stuff is crazy.Michael Jamin:And what people don't also realize, I think, is when you're starting out an actor, oh, I could play everything. I could play a villain. I could play a teacher, I could play a biker, I could play a doctor. That's fine when you're in your high school play, but in Hollywood, you're going to be cast the part that you are closest to because if not, we will cast someone who looks like a biker or who was a biker, and we'll cast someone who looks like a doctor. Right? Yeah. So you have to figure out who you are, basically.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Well, it's one of the, I went to theater school at UCLA and I was very lucky because during my freshman year, they decided to start a conservatory program within the theater program there. So we all auditioned and I got into this conservatory program. So for my last three years, it was conservatory training, and I still got my bachelor of arts degree from UCLA. It was the best of both worlds. One of the things that I felt like a few years out after having it is I wished they had spent a little bit more time helping us learn how to act like ourselves. You spend so much time in theater school, learning how to stretch your creativity, working on your voice, working on your body movement, body awareness, vocal awareness, and then learning how to play all these different kinds of parts and all the plays you're doing. All the parts are filled from college students. So sometimes you're playing an old man, sometimes you're playing a young woman who knows. But the second you start auditioning for roles professionally, you're only going to be seen for roles that you physically look like. And so it's really important to quickly learn if you haven't already, how to be you. Right. How do you do that version of you?Michael Jamin:Where do you begin with that?Chris Gorham:Well, it takes practice. We used to do an exercise. It was in one of the very beginning acting classes. In fact, I didn't even take this acting class. I was observing, I think my senior year, one of the grad students was teaching it. And it was just as simple as everybody got in circle and instead of being crazy and dancing like a tree or whatever, it was literally, it was just walk across. Just walk from point A to point B. Just you just don't do anything. Just walk from what, and you would be surprised how difficult that can be becauseMichael Jamin:You become self-conscious of what you'reChris Gorham:Exactly right. You become and you feel like you should do something mean. And especially for a bunch of theater kids who've kind of grown up in their theater school, all high schools and stuff all over, it's all about being big, and it's all about the jokes and getting attention and to let all of that go and just be in the market is a very difficult thing for a lot of people. But it's super, super important. And that carries through forever. Just being just be there. You don't have to do anything, particularly when you have a camera on you, and particularly when it's time for your closeup, you don't have to do a lot. You just have to be there and be present and alive in the scene.Michael Jamin:But so much, I think some people, they greatly underestimate how difficult acting is because it looks like make-believe and whatever. We're just, you're having fun on the camera, but to be in the moment, especially when the cameras are on you and everyone's watching in, go hurry up and go, because we've set up the scene for half hour and we want you to shoot it now. And it's so hard to stay in the moment, I think. So how do you stay in the moment when you become conscious that you're actingChris Gorham:Now? If I become conscious that I'm acting now, I'll just stop.Michael Jamin:You willChris Gorham:Often I'll just stop and say, can we start over? Can we just go back to the top because for whatever reason, and then go again. Because if I'm conscious, then I'm not in a scene, then it's not going to work and they're not going to be able to use it. So I would just stop and go back. I mean, it's the great advantage of film, right?Michael Jamin:But you do much theater anymore, because that's different when you're on stage.Chris Gorham:I only feel like benefits and things for years. We're rehearsing for one this weekend, we're doing the Girls Benefit to raise money for breast cancer research.Michael Jamin:So it's one show.Chris Gorham:It's one show. I mean, for me, I've been a single income family of five for almost 23 years. So with that, I haven't able to afford to go and do theater, but I miss it. I love it. I did two weeks, 14 years ago, I did two weeks in Spalding Gray Stories left to Tell in New York off Broadway.Michael Jamin:Really? So you were Spalding Gray, I mean, it's a one man show,Chris Gorham:Right? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a one man show split into five different personalities. So it's different parts of him. And so the business part, they would swap out celebrities every two weeks. And so I came in and did that for two weeks, and it was the best.Michael Jamin:And this was in New York?Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:That's amazing. How did something like that come up? How do you get that?Chris Gorham:I don't know. I don't remember. I don't mean it must've come through my agents or my manager. I don't remember. I don't remember.Michael Jamin:Wow. How interesting.Chris Gorham:Because now, I was just going to say now, it's been so long since I've done, I've become, I'm so out of the loop of LA theater in particular, which is kind of more feasible for me at this point, just because it's close and easy. I don't even really know how to get back in. In fact, one of my youngest was doing a summer theater camp at Annoys Within, and it's close to where we are. So I was trying to figure out, I reached out to my manager, I was like, Hey, is really close. Is there, are they doing anything that would make sense for me to do something with them over there? They were like, yeah, that's a great idea. And they never heard anything. So I just emailed them my photo and resume with a letter, and I never heard anything back. So I literally, I don't even know how to approach getting cast in theater anymore,Michael Jamin:Because your agent, there's not enough money for your agent to work on it.Chris Gorham:They couldn't be less interested.Michael Jamin:I'm always curious how that works. We just saw a show at the Pasadena Playhouse and I was like, well, how do these actors, how do they, yeah, ifChris Gorham:You find out, let me know the Playhouse also write down the street. It'd be amazing.Michael Jamin:Yeah, there's always some, but then again, you would have to commit to something. And during that time period, let's say it was two months, you can't take other work you've committed and something big could come along, who knows? IChris Gorham:Mean, maybe. But also that is, you live with that fear all the time, no matter whatMichael Jamin:Do you mean even if you're on a show, you mean?Chris Gorham:Well, not if you're on a show, then you're working well, then you worry about the show being canceled and then that you're never going to work again. But when you're not working, well, this brings up two thoughts. One is there's a fear of taking something that's not the big thing, because you are afraid that if you do this smaller thing that it's going to conflict with the big thing that might be just around the court. And the other thought that it brings up is I talked with so many actors over the years who are not working and are really struggling and feel paralyzed about going to try and do anything else because there's this intense peer pressure that, well, you can't quit. You can't quit now that your moment, it might be just around the corner, it might be the next audition.Michael Jamin:You mean quit Hollywood and do something for a different career, youChris Gorham:Mean? Yeah, go do something else. You got to hang in. You got to hang in. And I feel like it's a really difficult balancing act because the truth is that this business is really, really hard to go back to the strike. It's gotten increasingly difficult to the point where it's almost impossible with an actor to make a living, to be able to raise a family, to be able to put your kids through college and those kind of life things that are important to so many of us.Michael Jamin:And I know, and that's why you fight and that's why you fight. And that's why it's so people think, well, so what for actors? But the problem is like you're saying, if actors can't make a living in between or you're starring in a show, that's great, but the show will probably get canceled up to one season. But you still need to keep a healthy talent pool of actors who can continue to keep a living, because if they can't, they're going to leave. And then how are you going to cast as writers and producers? How do you cast this part if there's not a healthy talent pool? That'sChris Gorham:It. That's it. We can't continue paying the stars these massive, massive, massive amounts of money and having everybody else working on these tiny minimums because it's unsustainable. The best and the brightest of us that haven't won the lottery are going to go do other things because there's more to life and life. You can be an actor without pursuing it as a career.Michael Jamin:But I haven't heard those notions come up at all. Maybe I'm not just tuned in, but the idea of, well, maybe we're paying the stars too much, or has that been a discussion at all?Chris Gorham:I mean, I have that discussion. Yeah. Oh, really? Well, yeah, because it's not that, well, certainly for me, and not so much from my personal experience, but just from my kind of bleeding heart observations of this business, when you see movies, it's why, like I've said for a long time, the only way now to make a living in this business is if you're a star or a series regular on a TV show.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yes, I agree with that. It's theChris Gorham:Only way because all of the supporting cast, none of the supporting cast makes enough money to make a consistent living in this business because your stars get massive amounts of money. Everyone else is working scale, and the minimums have not risen nearly enough to make it enough. And the stars, well, this is the excuse the studios use, is that they're paying the stars so much. There's no money left to pay anybody else over scale, so no one else can negotiate over scale. And in tv it's a similar thing. So it just makes it very difficult.Michael Jamin:And not only that, LA has always been an expensive city to live, but now it's crazy. It's like crazy. I can't afford, if I hadn't bought my house when I did it, I couldn't even come close to affording this house and have a middle class house. It's something special about it. So these are the issues that actors are fighting over. Yeah, it's an important, it's so interesting when you hear your friends or colleagues thinking about leaving, do they tell you what they're going to do or what they want to do? It's such a hard thing when you're middle aged, what are you going to do?Chris Gorham:Right. No, it's true. It's true. No, I have some friends that have gone into teaching.Michael Jamin:Okay.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Most of my actor friends are still around. Have one friend who started the business ages ago and still runs that business while she's worked periodically as an actor throughout all of these years. And she still works frequently, but her main income is from this business that she created. Right.Michael Jamin:She's very, so you got to be entrepreneurial, basically. Yeah.Chris Gorham:Yeah. It's funny. I did a movie early in my career where we shot in Tonga and New Zealand, and we had a lot of New Zealand actors were working on this film and in talk, and some of them were quite famous in New Zealand. They were working on this famous New Zealand TV show, like legitimate celebrities. But in getting to know them and talking to them, almost all of them had day jobs, worked for the city, worked, worked in construction crews. They have full on day jobs. Some of them were entrepreneurs, some of them worked in government. And that was a new idea to me because that hadn't been my experience here. But as the income inequality has increased so dramatically, it feels like that's where our business has been going, where everybody has to have another gig.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Chris Gorham:It didn't used to be that way. And I don't think that it has to be that way.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely, yeah, it seems very unfair. It doesn't seem, well, I mean, I guess all things is fair about being an actor. Being an actor has always been a pursuit of like, well, is there anything else you could do? Then choose that? But true, it seems like now it's like, I don't know. What do you do? What recommend then for people, young kids or kids, whatever, 20 year olds who considering getting into the business?Chris Gorham:Yeah, I mean, that advice I think is evergreen. That if you can go do something else as a career, absolutely do something else as a career. Oftentimes the advice I give is when you're young, spend a lot less time thinking about what you want to be when you grow up and spend a lot more time thinking about what kind of life you want to live when you grow up, what kind of things do you want to do? And then you can find career paths that will allow you to live the kind of life you want to live. And it becomes less obsessed with having a certain job.Michael Jamin:Well, that's something to consider. So for you as a working actor, sometimes you'll be on location, you might be in a different city. Is that something you away from your family, which is hard as you were raised in a family, is that something you considered? Is that something you would reconsider now?Chris Gorham:I had no idea. I grew up in Fresno, California. My mom was a school nurse. My dad was an accountant. They didn't know what to do with me, and I didn't know anything about the business. I wanted to be. Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah. I had no idea. And so my first, and I was very fortunate. I got out of school, I started, I got my union card in 1996, the year I got out of school was booking occasional guest stars on things. My first job was one scene in a movie with two big movie stars, big famous director. It was awesome. And then I booked my first series just three years after school. Cool. And it was shot at Disney. It was like 10 minutes away from our little place we were renting. And then it was canceled and it came out of nowhere. And then I was very fortunate again. I booked another series two weeks later, but that one shot until longMichael Jamin:AndChris Gorham:I had no idea what that meant. And I left to do that pilot six weeks after our first born son, our firstborn was born. So my wife, anal had no idea what no idea we were doing. Suddenly we had a newborn baby, six weeks old, and then I'm gone for five weeks. It was extraordinarily difficult.Michael Jamin:I apologize. Something must be open and I have to shut it down because someone's, I'm sorry.Chris Gorham:Oh, no worries. Okay.Michael Jamin:I thought everything shut. But yeah, so to continue, so that's heartbreaking. You have a brand new baby and you're out of town. You left here.Chris Gorham:Yeah. It was hard. And we didn't, because we didn't grow up here, so we had no experience. I don't know how to do this. And no one was really kind explaining to us, okay, this is how you get through this. These are the different ways you can do it. These are the options. You know what I mean? I didn't have anybody, I didn't have a mentor or somebody guiding me in how to do this thing.Michael Jamin:But at any point in your career, you must, because worked for so many actors, you must have at some point found someone a little older and wiser. Right?Chris Gorham:Well, the closest thing we had was Anelle had Stacey Winkler. It was really sweet. Anelle used to sit next to Stacey Winkler at every taping, and they would just talk and Stacey would give her advice, and it was great. One week, Anelle come to the taping, and the next week Stacey scolded her and was like, you have to be here every week and let everyone know that that is your husband.Michael Jamin:Interesting. I remember she came to, I think every out of practice,Chris Gorham:Everyone.Michael Jamin:So why is it about staking your territory? What was that? Or is this being supportive?Chris Gorham:What was it? No, I think it was both, but I think partly staking your territory. I was the young guy, the young handsome guy on this show, and it's a CVS show, and so she was like, you need to be here. But then it was also she said, but then he's the star here at work. You have to make sure that when you get home, the kids are the star, not him. You have to make it veryMichael Jamin:Clear. Was there a difficulty for you? Is it hard to go home and not be the star? What was that like?Chris Gorham:I had gotten pretty good at it, certainly by then. But I would imagine looking back in the beginning, it's kind of that power corrupt and absolute power. Corrupt absolutely. Of course can go to your head when you are getting a little famous and you're making some money. And when you're at work, you are catered to, you're one of the stars of the show. You're catered to a handed foot. Everything's taken care of. I've described it as series regulars are treated like fancyMichael Jamin:Babies on set.Chris Gorham:Don't upset the babies. You need to keep them safe at all times. You need to keep them comfortable at all times. You don't want them crying. You don't want them cranky. You need to keep them fully regulated because when everything's ready to roll, we need the fancy babies to be able to perform. And as soon as they're done, we want them to go back to their cribs slash trailers so that then the grownups can finish getting everything ready for the next shot.Michael Jamin:And imagine giving this kind of pressure to a child actor. I mean, have you worked with many child actors?Chris Gorham:Yeah, many over the years, and I can say almost all of it. Almost all of it's been a good experience. I haven't had any total nightmares with child doctors. That being said, every parent that's asked us about getting their kid into the business, we have always advised against it. And we didn't encourage any of our kids to get into it.Michael Jamin:It's rough. I haven't worked with many child, I just haven't been on shows with a lot of kids. And I am glad because I have a feeling I would when a kid is messing around on set in between takes or just not being professional because they're acting like children the way they are supposed to act. In my mind I would be thinking, stop fucking around. This is work. I know that's what I would be thinking, which is an awful thing to put on a child. But that's what you're paying them a lot of money to do. It's a hard position. I don't know. I just feel for those kids, I just feel like, yeah, I know. That's where Ill be thinking. Hopefully I wouldn't be saying it. Yeah,Chris Gorham:It's difficult. It's very, I mean, sets are, they're not for kids. They're an adult work environments, which by the way, some adult working actors need to be reminded occasionally that these are adult working environments. This is not your personal playground. But yeah, it's a difficult environment for kids. So I mean, you need them. So I'm grateful that they're there.Michael Jamin:I think that too sometimes. Sometimes I'll see an actor goofing around too much, and we're all, I'm like, dude, let's get out of here. All the crew wants to go home. They've been working 12 hour days for the past week and a half. They want to go home too.Chris Gorham:Well, let me tell you, this is one of the things where with every showrunner that I've become friendly with, I highly encourage them, if at all possible, to bring their series regulars behind the curtain and bring them to at least one production meeting that show them how the sausage really gets made, expose them to all of the other incredibly creative, intelligent, wonderful people who make up this team that makes the TV show or the film. Because then they get to see, because as cast, especially as the stars of the show or the film, you really are treated as if you are the most important cog in this machine. And it's really helpful, I think, and just the team morale, if actors understand that they are a very important cog in that machine, but just one of the cogs in the machine. YouMichael Jamin:Said you learned this, I think when you first were directing, you started directing episodes of the shows, you weren't, right?Chris Gorham:Yeah. I had think a basic actor's understanding of how things work on set. And I'm not to blow my own horn. I'm generally a nice person. So I'm kind to people. I'm nice to everybody on set. I learned people's names. I generally understood what people did, but only when I started directing did I really understand just how incredible the whole ensemble is and how much the rest of the team has to offer and is contributing to the show or the film. It was just a level of respect that I don't think I could really have until I was allowed behind the curtain to see how it was happening. So whatMichael Jamin:Would you recommend? Would you recommend that every week one actor attends a production meeting? Is that what you're saying?Chris Gorham:Listen, that's one way to do it. Right. However it works for that showrunner, for that production, I would just encourage them because I just feel like so often, and I think, I don't know if it's true now, but I've talked to showrunners in the past that have talked about the show and the training program and about the message they got was to keep the cast at arm's length. Really? Yeah. And there certainly can be good reasons for doing that. I can understand why that sometimes makes the job easier, certainly, and sometimes maybe makes it possible. But I just think there's more to gain by bringing them in to letting them see, really meet the whole team and get to know the whole team. And because there's just, I mean, truly, you see what the set designers do, and you see what the customers do, and you see, we get to understand how lighting works. You know what I mean? It's just how hard the ads work on putting together with the schedule and learn why the schedule gets put way put together the way it gets put together. And once you understand it, then maybe you're a little less mad about having to be last in on Friday, two weeks in a row.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Chris Gorham:You see, it's like they're not out to get you. They are trying to accommodate you, and you are not the only factor that is being accommodated.Michael Jamin:You're talking about the writers now?Chris Gorham:No, I was talking about the cast look, in regards to schedule casting,Michael Jamin:Very, very frustratedChris Gorham:About scheduling.Michael Jamin:Oh, I see. Yeah, that's always right. I can see why that would be frustrating. So what happens? You get a call sheet and you're told to come in whatever, 8:00 AM and they don't get to shoot your part until 1:00 PM and you're like, why did they call me in so early? And sometimes it just happens. It works out that wayChris Gorham:Sometimes. Yeah. They're trying. They're trying. And sometimes it just doesn't work out. And with the scripts, with writers, it's a similar kinds of thing. It's like once you understand how many chefs are in the kitchen of getting these scripts, these stories broken, and then these scripts written how many notes the writer has gotten about their script from the studio and then from the network before it ever gets to the cast.Michael Jamin:You're making me anxious just talking about it. No joke.Chris Gorham:Sorry. And then that's why as a cast member, when you then go to the writer and say, Hey, can I ask you about this? Your writer looks like they're dying a little inside.Michael Jamin:Yeah. No, no, I can't do that.Chris Gorham:And it's like, so the best writers that I've worked with have always been very organized about how actors give notes. They're like, if we're doing table reads on a show, they'll be like, look, we're going to do the table read. Everybody's got 24 hours to give whatever notes or feedback you've got about the script. And then after that, we're considering it locked. Please respect that once you're on. The idea being that you don't want to spend a lot of time on the day when you're there waiting to shoot, talking about suddenly having questions about the scene and asking it to be rewritten. That's not the term.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it's not. And because we have to get next week's script and next week's script is a disaster. I'm telling you, it's in terrible shape. That's how it always is.So you want to worry about this. What about the crashing plane out there? That's going to be, I remember, I have to show, I can't remember if I mentioned this last time we spoke, but one of my favorite experiences of working in Hollywood was when I was an out of practice, and I can't remember what I was doing. I think the showrunner, Chris, I think he had me deliver pages up to the actress. It was show night right before the show, and I don't know why it was made, but for some reason, I remember carrying a couple of scripts to the dressing room maybe an hour before the showtime, and you guys were all there, the whole cast, and you're holding hands. And Henry's like, come on, Michael, come on in, come on. And I'm like, what's going on right here? And you're all just holding hands. And he goes, and he invited me in. I'm like, but I'm a writer. What do you mean? No, grab some hands. So I remember taking who, who's hands? I don't know, but I'm in the middle. I'm with a circle. I'm holding hands. I'm like, what is going on here? And then you guys did, I don't know what you would call it, but it was some kind of, it'sChris Gorham:Like a little vocal warmup or something. No,Michael Jamin:It was almost like a blessing. It was like a blessing. It was almost like, what's it, we are here to, I am curious if you've done this since then. It was like, we are here to support each other. We're going to have a wonderful show. We're all together. We're a family. And it was almost spiritual. It was very, I guess you haven't done that. You don't remember this.Chris Gorham:I remember doing that. I don't remember that specific moment. But that was all Henry.Michael Jamin:But it wasn't every week that you guys didChris Gorham:That. Every week we did that.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Okay.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Every week it was our ritual, but Henry started as the ritual before we went down to start the show. We would have this time just with a cast or occasionally with a writer who'd come in.Michael Jamin:I thought it was a beautiful moment. I really did.Chris Gorham:It was really great on dramas. You don't do that because you don't have that moment where you're all together about to go start the show. That's already happened to me on sitcoms.Michael Jamin:So maybe it's a theater thing then. Do you thinkChris Gorham:For sure it's a theater thing. Yes. Yes.Michael Jamin:Yes. So tell me, this happens on other employees always before every show or before every night. Opening night every night. Yeah.Chris Gorham:I mean, of course it depends on the show, right? It depends on who's there and who's, but yeah, thinking back, even when I was a kid in Fresno doing local theater, they would always feed circle up right before Showtime.Michael Jamin:Is that what they call, is there a name for this circle up? What is it?Chris Gorham:No, no. That's just what I'mMichael Jamin:Using. So there's no nameChris Gorham:For you get in the huddle. You get in the huddle.Michael Jamin:But I really thought, I still remember it. I was touched by it that this is something that you guys did to support each other so that you could hold space and feel safe in front of a crowd and know it was a very team thing. And I was like, wow. I felt almost like I was invading it. I felt like I don't belong here because I'm not on stage with you guys. But that's what I remember. It struck me. Something else that always struck me was how well guest stars were greeted by the regular cast. That's a very, very position. You've been on both sides of that,Chris Gorham:Right? Yeah, for sure.Michael Jamin:For sure. What's that on both sides for you?Chris Gorham:I've worked on shows where I have, where series regulators never spoke to me. We were in a scene together, but outside of the scene never spoke to me.Michael Jamin:So action. And this is the first time you're talking to them.Chris Gorham:Correct.Michael Jamin:I suppose that could be good if your characters were just meeting for the first time, but is thereChris Gorham:Sure. I guess. I guessMichael Jamin:I guess.Chris Gorham:But we could, we're professionals. We could pretend. But that was pretty early in my career. Now I don't really have that experience anymore. But also, I took it with me and I made it a point, having had that happen once or twice early in my career, that once I was the series regular, I've always made it a point to never ever do that,Michael Jamin:To always welcome the guest star and just absolutely greet them. It's a hard thing to stay. I mean, think about it's the first day of school for them. Yeah. You're walking into, you don't know anybody. I,Chris Gorham:No, it's difficult enough. Like you said, this is a difficult job. And why make it harder on somebody who is coming in on the bottom of the rung of power at this show? Why would you use the very real power that you wieldMichael Jamin:Show it's It is real.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Why would you wield that to make someone who's on your team, right? Uncomfortable. Why you?Michael Jamin:But we know these actors. I'm the star. I want you. I want to remind you. It's like, dude, we know. We know.Chris Gorham:Yeah. There are people like that. I feel like that's the exception. It happens. Oh, really? But I feel like it's the exception.Michael Jamin:Interesting.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my content, and I know you do because you're listening to me, I will email it to you for free. Just join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos of the week. These are for writers, actors, creative types, people like you can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not going to spam you, and the price is free. You got no excuse to join. Go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist. And now back to what the hell is Michael Jamin talking about?One thing we also spoke about, which was very interesting to me, was I don't know what they call now, I guess, what do they call? They call it sex coordinators. What is the role for those peopleChris Gorham:Who, oh, intimacyMichael Jamin:Coordinators. Intimacy coordinators. But you mentioned that they have other functions. It is not just when two people are lying in bed, half naked. It's also for,Chris Gorham:So the way that I describe it to people who've never heard of intimacy coordinators is everyone's familiar with stunt coordinators. So stunt coordinators are brought onto a set to keep actors physically safe. Intimacy coordinators are brought onto a set to keep actors emotionally safe.Michael Jamin:And this is relatively new thing. Maybe what, five or 10 years or something? Maybe less,Chris Gorham:Right? Yes. New. And we are pushing to make them required. But one of the hurdles before we can make them a requirement like a stunt coordinator is required. One of the hurdles is actually getting enough intimacy coordinators qualified, trained and qualified to do thisMichael Jamin:Job. Are most of them, are they therapists, counselors? What's their training, do you think? No,Chris Gorham:I think a lot of them come from the acting court. Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah. BecauseMichael Jamin:You mentioned it's not just that. It's also like if you have two characters yelling at each other in a scene, no sex, they're just yelling at each other that an intimacy record will talk to you afterwards, right?Chris Gorham:Yeah. So here's a couple things that we did. I'd worked on a show where we had a scene, it was a sexual assault scene, but there were no clothes, there was no nudity and things stopped before things progressed to the point where we were physically exposed. But that kind of scene, you're very emotionally exposed, right? And this was my first time interviewing with an intimacy coordinator. I didn't really know what to expect. So there was a part of the conversation was, okay, for instance, it's written in the script that the other character is going to reach down and grab your groin. And I talked to the in music coordinator saying, I talked to the director and the director wants to see that. He said, are you comfortable with that? Here's what we have to protect you. We have a piece that's going to go between your pants and your underwear to protect your groin.And so when she grabs you, that's all she's grabbing. It was like, okay, great. That's super helpful actually. Great. I've never had that before. And it seemed like that. And it's nice. It makes me feel more comfortable. Certainly makes her feel more comfortable. Who wants to do that? Nobody. But then after the physical parts of discussion, then the conversation shifted. And she said, another thing that I've done with a lot of actors who've done scenes this, I would recommend that you put together a self-care routine for the end of the day. I was like, well, what do you mean? Like it could be anything. Whatever is going to be comforting to you. Some people, you might make a put things together. So you can draw a bubble bath when you get home. You might put together a playlist of music that makes you feel good.It might be pictures of your kids, could be whatever it is that is going to give comfort if you need it at the end of the day, because you never know what scenes like that might trigger. And that's the thing is you write scenes like this and it's necessary for the story, and you works as appropriate for the characters, but you never know what the actors as people, what their life experience has been. And they may have in their real life, been through an experience like that. And so then reenacting it can be very triggering. And it's the thing about acting when you're doing these emotional scenes, be it anger or big crying emotion, your body doesn't know you're pretending.Michael Jamin:Exactly.Chris Gorham:Exactly. So you mentally, well, this is pretend none of this is real. We're on a set crew numbers and friends, but your body doesn't know the difference. Once you're experiencing those emotions, you are experiencing those emotions and you never know what it's going to bring up. So that kind of care, emotional care, I thought is really great.Michael Jamin:And it's like, you'll do this just so people are aware. If you have a scene where you're screaming and yelling or sexually assaulting someone or whatever, and your adrenaline's pumping and whatever, your, not hormones, but cortisol. Cortisol is racing, whatever. All this stuff is going through your head and your body doesn't know, and you're doing the scene a dozen times and it's very hard. I feel it's must be hard to wash that out of your system.Chris Gorham:Can be. It can be. I mean, that's the thing. And it's different for everybody. I ended up, I was okay at the end of the day. I was exhausted, but I felt okay. But I was glad that I'd put some thought into, if I'm not feeling okay, here's what I'm going to do, it's going to help me feel better. And just having thought about it, I think just helped.Michael Jamin:No, I don't think I've ever worked with an intimacy coordinator because in comedy we don't really do a lot of that. But is it always a sexually charged? Is that what the line is? It's not just drama. There always has to be some kind of sexual element when they're brought in. Is that what itChris Gorham:Is? That's certainly how it started. And I think now it's one of the things, it's still new. We're figuring out when it, certainly on the sexual stuff, I'm trying to think. It was interesting. There was a resolution. I think there was a resolution that's going to be coming up the convention. There's lots of conversation about intimacy coordinators. But there was some conversation that had never crossed my mind. But once I was talking to someone about it, I thought, yeah, you know what that makes a lot of sense is bringing in intimacy coordinators when you're physically with children. Physically with children. So for instance, you are playing a dad and you're working with kids and you're getting in bed and cuddling with the kids at bedtime, or you're putting your daughter on your lap to have, because they had a rough day and you're cuddling and you know what I mean? And you're having physical contact with kids to have an intimacy coordinator there just to make, because again, you don't know what people's experiences been to protect the kids so that there's a conversation and there's somebody there watching. And I thought, you know what? Smart, that's a great idea.Michael Jamin:That is a really smart idea. Because we don't know what these kids have been through. We don't know.Chris Gorham:And again, most actors, most people in the world are caring, kind, certainly empathetic. That's their wholeMichael Jamin:Job. That's the job.Chris Gorham:But just like any other profession, some people need help. Some people don't always have the best intentions, and some people don't always behave well. And so it's important. So yeah, I thought that was just such a good idea.Michael Jamin:I totally agree. We also spoke about how you handle it when you are working with an actor who maybe isn't as professional or prepared as you are in the scene and what you do. I thought it was interesting what you had to say.Chris Gorham:Okay, so huge pet peeve. For me. It's like, no, it really bugs me when you're working with someone who hasn't bothered to learn their dialogue. So that's a huge No-no. But then sometimes you are working with an actor who just isn't great, who just for whatever reason isn't great. So my strategy for dealing with that is I just basically start acting to an X. I just don't, whatever they're giving me is just bad. What I know is that the editor is going to cut around the bad performance and they're going to use me. So it's even more important for me to stay completely engaged in the scene. And it's an extra level of acting challenge because then you're acting. It's like, I don't know. It's working on one of the superhero movies or something where you just start treating them like a tennis ball and you do the scene regardless because you can't let them affect your performance. Your performanceMichael Jamin:PerformanceChris Gorham:Has to be there.Michael Jamin:But let's say you were working with a casting director. I've worked with many, obviously many, and some cast directors, they'll read with you, and some of them are not great actors. NoChris Gorham:Read bad.Michael Jamin:And then you have, as an actor, you were trained to react and to what they give you, but how do you deal with it when they're not giving youChris Gorham:Enough? It is. It's really hard. It's one of the nice things about this whole self take resolution is that's kind of taken out of it because you've got, hopefully you have someone working with you that's going to give you something. And if not, you can do multiple takes and send the best one. It was always one of the most difficult things about auditioning in the room is when you are, and I've heard so many horror stories, I've experienced just a couple, but when you're doing your audition and the person you're reading with is garbage, and so much of it becomes, it's not like how convincing their reading is. For me, it was always a rhythm thing. It was like they just aren't listening. And so the rhythm gets completely screwed up. And it's like,Michael Jamin:I always feel for actors when they have to do this, you have a crappy sketching director. It's like, well, what so hard.Chris Gorham:Or you look up and the casting director's like on the phone,Michael Jamin:That's even worse. EatingChris Gorham:Lunch and not this.Michael Jamin:If you prepared a scene and in this moment you're going to be hot, you're going to be yelling, and the casting director is not giving you enough for you to get angry at. So you're saying you just go ahead and do it the way you prepared, even though if the scene, but then it looks like you're almost looks like you're crazy. You're getting angry and the cast director's at the lunch. It's just something you got to deal withChris Gorham:Because that's the scene. And they're probably, even when you were in the office, usually they were recording it. Right. So all they're going to see is your side.Michael Jamin:Okay.Chris Gorham:So you have to doMichael Jamin:That's good advice.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I remember, this is years ago, we did a scene. We had this very famous actress. Actress. She was older, and we booked her and she came for the role and it was exciting to have her on set. She was very famous, but she should not be working. Her agent should not have booked her because I'veChris Gorham:Had an experienceMichael Jamin:Like that too. Really? So maybe she had dementia. I felt terrible because she clearly had dementia or early signs of dementia, so she literally couldn't remember one line. So you'd feed her the line, and even still, she couldn't remember it half a second later. And I just felt she, I didn't know what to do. I was like, she's struggling here. She's probably feels very embarrassed, very lost. Very, why did her agent send her out for this book? Maybe because she needed the insurance. I don't know. But it was a horrible situation. I felt bad all around.Chris Gorham:I've worked with an actress who a very similar situation, and they went to cue cards and they just did it line by line.Michael Jamin:Even with QI wanted to bring in cue cards. The director said, I don't want to bring q. I was like, what are you doing, dude? This is awful. I lost that fight. I thought we needed cue cards. They justChris Gorham:Shot her side line by line, and then I just did my side to an X.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. That's one of the realities of being on a TV show.Chris Gorham:Totally. And it's one of the, but also why it's so important to not to get, just to do, at the end of the day, be responsible for your performance and make sure that you're giving the best performance that you can give and you can't control the other stuff that's happening. And then as an actor, then trust your director and your camera operators and your review that they're going to take care of you as best that they can and your editor. But it doesn't behoove anyone to make you look like an idiot unless you're supposed to look like an idiot. Right,Michael Jamin:Right.Chris Gorham:Everyone wants to make the show. Great.Michael Jamin:Are your kids getting into acting or have they expressed any No. You said with relief. No, not in the arts at all.Chris Gorham:No, no, no, not at all.Michael Jamin:Your wife was an actor. I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm surprised that there's not that pull.Chris Gorham:Well, my oldest son is autistic. He finished high school and now he's got a part-time job like pharmacy down the street. He's doing well, and his younger brother is studying business, wants to go into real estate. Oh, good. It's like, okay.Michael Jamin:Yeah, thank God.Chris Gorham:Yeah. And then our youngest loves to sing, has a beautiful singing voice. But yeah, no, he isn't really interestedMichael Jamin:GoingChris Gorham:Into the business, which is fine. We've never put any pressure onMichael Jamin:Them. Well, sure.Chris Gorham:And had they had a passion for it, we would be supportive, but it's just not, their heartsMichael Jamin:Taken them. It's funny. I'm sure they've come to set with you seen you do it. Yeah.Chris Gorham:Yeah. They think it's boring. They're like, this is so boring.Michael Jamin:It is boring. There's a lot of boring on a set. I don't know if,Chris Gorham:Yeah, it's super boring. They've never watching things with me in it because it's weird to see your dad not being your dad. Also, another thing, thinking about it, having just talked about Stacy Linker a little bit ago, I think part of the reason they don't like going to set is because it set. I am the star and not them. SoMichael Jamin:Oh, interesting.Chris Gorham:That doesn't feel great either. It's way better at home.Michael Jamin:What is it like for you though, when you're out in public? And fame to me is, so how do you experience fame when someone comes up to you and they think they know you and they want a piece of you? What does that do to you?Chris Gorham:Well, I've been really lucky, I feel like, because kind of been able to walk the line where I've experienced being famous enough to have the paparazzi jump out and want to take my picture and talk to me.Michael Jamin:That's a lot. That's a level of fame I don't think anybody would want to have,Chris Gorham:But never to the point where it really got in the way. It was just a few. There were some moments in my career where I was famous enough that the paparazzi knew who I was and would take my picture, but never famous enough that it reallyMichael Jamin:BotheredChris Gorham:You, caused problems. Never famous enough where I needed security. Never famous enough where it got really inconvenient.Michael Jamin:But let's just say you're at a restaurant and someone wants to come up, they want to talk to you, they autographed, they want to meet you.Chris Gorham:Most of the time people get it. I'm usually out with my kids and my wife, so they understand if they're coming up and I'm with my wife and kids, that it's a little awkward for them to ask me to stop dinner with my family to talk pictures or take. So that doesn't really happenMichael Jamin:Now. Oh, that's good. I mean, Brad, I could see your family being like, oh God, we're trying to have a night. We're trying to be together.Chris Gorham:There's been moments like that, especially for the kids. Anelle it, it's always been fun. Early in my career, it was weird because we were on a show and we couldn't go to malls because kids would chase us around malls in the very beginning. But then as you get older, that happens less and less. And then it's just been, sometimes it's surprising. My kids forget for a while. We'll go a while without getting recognized at all. And then weirdly, in Chicago, weirdly, I think the last show that I was on must have lots of people watched it in Chicago. And so suddenly, anytime I'm in Chicago, I'm recognized all the time. And so It's like my kids remember. Oh, right. Dad's on tv.Michael Jamin:That's soChris Gorham:Funny. Funny. When Ethan was starting high school was when a very popular show with the high school kids had just premiered. And that was actually really difficult for him. We've talked about it since. He didn't really reveal how hard it was for him, but last year we were talking about it and he was kind of opening up and said, yeah, no, it sucked. It wasn't great.Michael Jamin:Really?Chris Gorham:You were doing that show while I was starting high school and so everyone knew who I was and everyoneMichael Jamin:Knew who all his friends and all the kids. Yeah. It's hard for a kid and itChris Gorham:Was embarrassing.Michael Jamin:Yes, it was. They were embarrassed that you were their dad.Chris Gorham:Yeah. Really? It was super embarrassing. Yeah. Well, because of what that show, because of my character on the show for high school kids, just, it was a lot. I was physically quite exposed on that show and so yeah, it was a lot. It a lot.Michael Jamin:Oh wow. We did a show with these two guys link and these were big YouTubers and they were huge. And I hadn't heard of them. I didn't know them. And then remember we'd go for the meeting and one of them said to me, you wouldn't believe this, but I can't go to Disneyland without being swarmed. That was his crowd. He's like, I know you've never seen me before, but I can't go there without being swarmed.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:It's so funny. Yeah,Chris Gorham:It's wild. Yeah. That was,Michael Jamin:It's interesting that this, go ahead, please.Chris Gorham:No, no, no, no. It was just a dumb Disneyland story. Go ahead.Michael Jamin:No.Chris Gorham:Well, the dumb Disneyland story was, there was a period in my career where working on a certain show where we could not only go to Disneyland for free, but also were given the guide and the behind we were taking care of at Disneyland, like a celebrity, which was funny because it was so, we did it a couple times, but I think even just the second time we went to Disney Disneyland, that way, it's too much. Honestly. It sounds great, and it's great the first time to be able to skip all the lines, you know what I mean? But after that, it's like, oh, there's actually way less to do at Disneyland than you think when you don't have to wait in line for anything.Michael Jamin:That's so funny. You kindChris Gorham:Of finish it all in four hours and then you're like, oh,Michael Jamin:Now what? Now what?Chris Gorham:Again?Michael Jamin:That's so funny. Yeah.Chris Gorham:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I'm always curious, I am always curious about how people experience I'm around you guys and how you guys experience fame and what is it like that parasocial relationship where people think they know you and they don't. They just know this part of you.Chris Gorham:It's different for everybody.Michael Jamin:Yeah. I always feel like it must be like, am I giving you what? When someone comes up to you, is there that thought in your head? Where am I giving you what you wanted? You just met me. Am I giving you what you wanted? Because I don't know what you wanted and am I who you wanted me to be for five minutes? Oh, that's funny.Chris Gorham:I don't think about it that way. I've just tried to be kind to people just, I just try to be kind. Just be kind. That's all. That's really all I'm thinking about is just because, listen, it could be worse. It's not terrible for people to be happy to see you generally.Michael Jamin:Right.Chris Gorham:That's not terrible. That's kind of nice. Can it be inconvenient? Sorry.Michael Jamin:Well, I saw a clip of Eve who played Jan Brady, right. And she was on the talk show. This clip was probably 30 years old or whatever, and someone in the audience said, can you just do it? Can you just say it? Can you say it right? And she's like, we knew what you wanted. We knew everyone knew. She wanted her to say, Marsha, Marsha, Marsha. And she was like, I'm not going to say it. I won't say it, and why not? And everyone was so disappointed, and I felt for her. I was like, because she doesn't want to be your performing monkey now. And that was when she was 10.Chris Gorham:Well, that's the thing too. It's like is a one you can be kind and say no.Michael Jamin:Yeah,Chris Gorham:Right. Just being kind doesn't mean you're going to say yes to every request,Michael Jamin:But that sounds like something you've maybe had a long conversation with a therapist to come to that conversation. Really? Yeah. That's something I would struggle with. Someone would say, you know, could be kind still say, no, am I allowed to? But you're saying you came to this realization on your own.Chris Gorham:I dunno. I don't know. Listen, I do see a therapist, and so maybe I don't remember having a breakthrough about that specifically, but certainly walking things through with a therapist can only help. Also, I think being a dad helps with that because in parenting, so much of the job is saying no. And that can be really hard sometimes, certainly for some people, but it's an important part of the job.Michael Jamin:Talk about how important do you think it is, and for you to either, okay. As a writer, I think it's very important to spend at least some amount of time in therapy because if you don't know yourself, how could you possibly know another character? And I wonder if you feel the same way. Same thing about acting.Chris Gorham:Oh, I've never thought about it that way.Michael Jamin:Really?Chris Gorham:Yeah. Yeah. No, I never thought about that way. But it certainly can be helpful. I mean, for the same reason. It just, it's spending that time thinking about, and sometimes it's taking that hour just thinking about the whys of things. You spend so much of your days reacting to everything and taking the time to go, okay, why did this lead to this? Why did I do that when this happened to me? And as a person, it's going to help you stay more regulated and be just healthier in life. But also, yeah, for sure. There's going to be moments when you're going to be able to understand a character brother, because you've maybe put some thought into why people doMichael Jamin:These things, why people do. Yeah.Chris Gorham:I been, one of the things I've

During the highest turkey consumption period of the year, we bring you a This American Life tradition: stories of turkeys, chickens, geese, ducks, fowl of all kinds—real and imagined—and their mysterious hold over us. Prologue: Ira Glass talks with Scharlette Holdman, who works with defense teams on high profile death row cases, and who has not talked to a reporter in more than 25 years. Why did she suddenly end the moratorium on press? Because her story is about something important: namely, a beautiful chicken. (2 minutes)Act One: Scharlette Holdman's story continues, in which she and the rest of a legal defense team try to save a man on death row by finding a star witness — a chicken with a specific skill. (10 minutes)Act Two: Yet another testimony to the power chickens have over our hearts and minds.  Jack Hitt reports on an opera about Chicken Little.  It's performed with dressed-up styrofoam balls, it's sung in Italian and, no kidding, able to make grown men cry. (14 minutes)Act Three: Ira accompanies photographer Tamara Staples as she attempts to photograph chickens in the style of high fashion photography. The chickens are not very cooperative. (15 minutes)Act Four: Kathie Russo's husband was Spalding Gray,  who was best known for delivering monologues onstage—like "Monster in a Box," and "Swimming to Cambodia." On January 10, 2004, he went missing. Witnesses said they saw him on the Staten Island Ferry that night. Two months later, his body was pulled out of the East River. Kathie tells the story of the night he disappeared, and about how, in the weeks following, she and each of their three children were visited by a bird, who seemed to be delivering a message to them. (9 minutes)Transcripts are available at thisamericanlife.org

En este episodio.... una lectura. Ojalá la disfrutes. Me puedes contactar en: paseandoconoliversacks@gmail.com Puedes suscribirte al canal de Yotube del podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@paseandoconoliversacks

Sam Clements is curating a fictional film festival. He'll accept almost anything, but the movie must not be longer than 90 minutes. This is the 90 Minutes Or Less Film Fest podcast. In episode 106 Sam is joined by actor Galen Howard. Galen has chosen True Stories (90 mins), David Byrne's directorial debut. The 1986 film stars John Goodman, David Byrne, Swoosie Kurtz, and Spalding Gray, with a soundtrack by Talking Heads.  Sam and Galen discuss becoming a part of the Star Wars universe, John Goodman's first major role and how Ned Ryerson (Stephen Tobolowsky) is responsible for the song Radio Head.  [This podcast was recorded before the start of the SAG-AFTRA strike] Thank you for downloading. We'll be back in a couple of weeks! Rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/90minfilm If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, rate, review and share with your friends. We're an independent podcast and every recommendation helps - thank you!  You can also show your support for the podcast by buying us a coffee at our Ko-fi page: https://ko-fi.com/90minfilmfest Website: 90minfilmfest.com Tweet: @90MinFilmFest  Instagram: @90MinFilmFest  We are a proud member of the Stripped Media Network. Hosted and produced by @sam_clements. Edited and produced by Louise Owen. Guest star @_galen_howard_. Additional editing and sound mixing by @lukemakestweets. Music by @martinaustwick. Artwork by @samgilbey. 

Jim from the Film Rage Podcast joins Ryan to talk about the 1986 film, True Stories, a film that was written and directed by David Byrne. David Byrne also stars in the film opposite the likes of John Goodman and Spalding Gray. Of course, with David Byrne, there will be a discussion of music!We Chat About:How The Talking Heads album, True Stories, isn't actually the soundtrack to the filmWhy David Byrne isn't the only credited screenwriter on the filmDavid Byrne's recent concert film, American UtopiaByrne's influence on music in generalJim's Super Podcaster Origin StoryIf you're looking to create a podcast with professional sound, check out Podtastic Audio at:https://www.podtasticaudio.com/easyFor More Information about Film Rage:Website: https://www.filmrageyyc.comIG: https://www.instagram.com/filmrageyycTwitter: https://www.twitter.com/filmrageyycIf you'd like to support Soundtrack Your Life, we have a Patreon, where you'll get bonus episodes and more!

Michael talks with John Cotter about a pending move, the influence of monologues and Spalding Gray, theater and recitation, early adventures in poetry, life and writing through his first novel, the gravity of Ménière's disease on his life thereafter, his new memoir LOSING MUSIC, honestly approaching the question of suicide, multi-faceted memoirs, memory/scene work, and life now.John Cotter is the author of the memoir Losing Music, published by Milkweeds Editions, portions of which have appeared in Raritan, Catapult, Indiana Review, and Guernica. His novel, Under the Small Lights, was published by Miami University Press in 2010, and his fiction, essays, criticism, and theater pieces have appeared–or will soon– in New England Review, Epoch, Electric Literature's Recommended Reading, Georgia Review, Adroit, The New York Times, and Commonweal.Podcast theme: DJ Garlik & Bertholet's "Special Sause" used with permission from Bertholet.

This week, we hear feedback from Nayan and Jason on the video memoir, “Beastie Boys Story”, which is available on Apple Plus. In addition to diving deep on celebrity cameos, Beastie Boys discography, and music history, we reference Spalding Gray, VH1's Behind The Music, Russell Simmons, and reminisce about a different time of music listening and the modern shift of new music discovery via social media. Watch, listen, rate, and subscribe please! Also, if you have a show or movie you want us to watch or just something you want us to randomly mention on air, leave us a voicemail on our Anchor page. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/watchokplease/message

This week's guest is Sharon Glassman, designer, songwriter and founder of Smile Songs. The Colorado-based Smile Songs incorporates all of Sharon's talents into a line of musical cards and gifts. In addition to containing original music by Sharon, Smile Songs products are unique because they use QR codes to deliver the sound which is better for the environment than traditional musical cards that utilize plastic parts for example. Though QR codes are common place after 2020, she started using them in 2013 and we chat about that.In college, Sharon majored in journalism school. She then got accepted into law school and made a deal with her dad that she would defer for a year and attend. She ended up taking an entirely different path! Prior to founding Smile Songs, Sharon had a hybrid career. She was a voice over artist. She was also a writer for the ads department at MTV Networks where she applied her love of music to the ads she and the team worked on and created. After working at MTV, she performing and telling stories on stage, touring the country. Meanwhile, she was acquiring skills, teaching herself digital illustration, print production and music production.Musically, Sharon has had another path having previously joined community orchestra. Then, through a misunderstood Craigslist ad she became the fiddler of a country rock band. Now she is in an all-woman bluegrass project called Five Foot Betty.Topics we cover:History of QR CodesThe story of Smile Songs and the ideation process that went into creating the products and businessIncorporating creativity into a careerWriting and telling stories on stageSongwritingTrusting your gut and making hard decisionsNote from Rabiah (Host): After getting off of the recording call with Sharon, I was so excited I would get to listen back to our conversation. It was such a joy to hear about the path she took to get to where she is today and it already sounds like we'll need to speak again because she has so much in the works. We share a passion for sharing stories and it was a true pleasure to get to hear hers and to share it with you, the listener. +++++ Find SharonWebsite: https://smilesongs.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smile_songs/ +++++ Mentioned in this episode:Spalding Gray: https://www.spaldinggray.com/ Eric Bagosian: http://100monologues.com/ Tales of Whatever: https://www.facebook.com/talesofwhatever/ +++++ More than Work Facebook, Instagram, Twitter: @morethanworkpod Please review and follow anywhere you get podcasts. Thank you for listening. Have feedback? Email morethanworkpod(at)gmail.com!

Agents Scott and Cam take a sexy Toolshed tour with the 1995 erotic neo-noir spy thriller Bad Company starring Ellen Barkin and Laurence Fishburne.   Directed by Damian Harris. Starring Ellen Barkin, Laurence Fishburne, Frank Langella, Michael Beach, Gia Carides, David Ogden Stiers, Daniel Hugh Kelly and Spalding Gray. Become a SpyHards Patron and gain access to top secret "Agents in the Field" bonus episodes, movie commentaries and more! Pick up exclusive SpyHards merch, including the "What Does Vargas Do?" t-shirt by @shaylayy, available only at Redbubble Social media: @spyhards View the NOC List and the Disavowed List at Letterboxd.com/spyhards Podcast artwork by Hannah Hughes. Theme music by Doug Astley.

In this episode, we invite Professor John Rucynski back to discuss his book, Bridging the Humor Barrier: Humor Competency Training in English Language Teaching. John Rucynski is an associate professor at the Center for Language Education at Okayama University. His main research interest is exploring the role of humor in foreign language acquisition and intercultural communicative competence. In addition to editing two volumes about this passion, he has written numerous articles and given conference presentations around the world. His mission going forward is to at least slightly disprove the maxim that “Nothing is as unfunny as trying to explain why something is funny.” Books: Bridging the Humor Barrier: Humor Competency Training in English Language Teaching (Rowman & Littlefield; with Caleb Prichard)New Ways in Teaching with Humor (TESOL Press)Articles: Is This Thing On? Teacher Views of Incorporating Humor Into Online Language Classes (The Language Teacher, with Peter Neff)L2 Learners' Ability to Recognize Ironic Online Comments and the Effect of Instruction (System; with Caleb Prichard)Implementing Humor Instruction into English Language Teaching (English Teaching Forum; with Caleb Prichard)The English Classroom as “Warai no ba”: Instructor Views on Humor and Language Learning in Japan (International Journal of Educational Research; with Peter Neff)Second Language Learners' Ability to Detect Satirical News and the Effect of Humor Competency Training (TESOL Journal; with Caleb Prichard)Japanese Perceptions of Humor in the English Language Classroom (HUMOR; with Peter Neff)Using The Simpsons in EFL Classes (English Teaching Forum)_________The Deep in Japan Podcast is completely independent and crowd-funded, so if you like what you hear, please give a thought to supporting us.The outro was American Joke Man by JAM. Don't know who Spalding Gray is? You're not alone. I thought John was referring to a crayon color. For context, check out his 1987 masterpiece, Swimming to Cambodia. Got something to say? You can reach me at the following:www.facebook.com/groups/deepinjapan/ deep.in.japan.podcast@gmail.comAs always, thanks for listening! Support the show

Welcome back to Jonah Asks. This talk with Jeff Alessandrelli is wide-ranging and thought-provoking. Jeff's book And Yet is an experimental fiction novel full of quotations, philosophical ideas around shyness, desire and selfhood. The novel and the conversation both explore many aspects of modern life:*isolation vs connection;*therapy/mental health*living via text vs living in the present moment *vulnerability vs social conditioning/masculinity*creative ambition vs acceptance;*societal expectations vs individual truth. *talking vs self-consciousness*identity and performing the selfLink to Jeff's book:https://pankmagazine.com/shop/preorder-yet-jeff-alessandrelli/music samples: "Me, Myself and I" De La Soul"Saturday in the Park" ChicagoEssay in The Atlantic on the sex recession, Dec 2018https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/Spalding Gray on Charlie Rose (1997)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geKEoxpPh5Y&tThank You For Listening and Sharing,Jonah

Katie and Sally discuss "Finder Library Volume 1" (2011) by Carla Speed McNeil, but first a recap of the Autoptic comics festival in Minneapolis. Topics discussed include Hard Boiled, Sharp Stick, Nope, Betty Boop, Ursula K. Le Guin, Spalding Gray, Precious Moments, Paisley Park, and more. Next time: "Melody" by Sylvie Rancourt. Support Thick Lines at patreon.com/thicklinespod and follow us on Instagram @thicklinespod.

This week, a special guest co-host enters the fray and Jason MacLeod stops by to aid in the discussion of a weird 80s comedy starring... Daniel Day-Lewis?! Yep. They discuss the film Stars and Bars, a movie seemingly tailor-made for Hugh Grant years before Hollywood had created Hugh Grant the dopey romantic comedy star. They talk about the lack of jokes (seems to be a theme for these kinds of movies), the harrowing domestic abuse subplot, the hotel canal, the insane dinner table scene and much more. Check our social media on Sunday for the Sunday Screencrap and take a guess at our next movie! What We've Been Watching: The Ghost and the Darkness "Stumptown" "Severance" Questions? Comments? Suggestions? You can always shoot us an e-mail at wwttpodcast@gmail.com  Patreon: www.patreon.com/wwttpodcast Facebook: www.facebook.com/wwttpodcast Twitter: www.twitter.com/wwttpodcast Instagram: www.instagram.com/wwttpodcast Theme Song recorded by Taylor Sheasgreen: www.facebook.com/themotorleague Logo designed by Mariah Lirette: www.instagram.com/its.mariah.xo Montrose Monkington III: www.twitter.com/montrosethe3rd Stars and Bars stars Daniel Day-Lewis, Harry Dean Stanton, Joan Cusack, Martha Plimpton, Maury Chaykin, Steven Wright, Laurie Metcalf, Will Patton, Glenne Headley, Spalding Gray and Keith David; directed by Pat O'Connor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rene Jongmans, president of leading leisure company, Vacation Express, and a former Saint-Martinois, reveals the new resorts and best places to stay and eat in the Caribbean and Mexico. Mike and James dig for gold with Rene's favorite spots and hidden gems - while he preaches patience and preparation for the Summer travel season. Another new voice, travel marketing expert Jessica Deverson, brings her research and sharp eye on the best deals and values in the market this week despite inflation (and will be back regularly in coming episodes). Plus, how Americans traveling to Europe and the UK now can enjoy the lowest costs in 20 years. Inspired by the actor and monologist Spalding Gray, this week's tip for more meaningful travel has to do with a quest for "the perfect moment" on every trip. Listen in and find out more. Hosted by Mike Putman and James Ferrara. _ Produced by The Greenville Podcast Company.

Who would have thought that running away with the circus could lead to a career as a successful filmmaker. Gary Glassman's path to filmmaking also, includes, street theater, teaching, prison work, and media technology. The through-line for Gary's creative adventure has been asking questions and, what else, telling stories.  BioGary Glassman believes television can change the world. He comes to television through street and circus performing – clowning, fire-eating, tight rope and stilt walking. His earliest media work is participatory projects with prisoners and the criminally insane, hospitalized children, and developmentally challenged adults. Prisoners, his first documentary, is in the permanent collections of the Museum of Modern Art, the National Gallery, and the Pompidou Center in Paris. He started Providence Pictures in 1996 and as executive producer/director makes films for the world's leading broadcasters including PBS, Discovery, History, National Geographic, BBC, and Arte. His films consistently achieve the highest ratings and have won and been honored with nominations for the industry's most prestigious awards including seven Emmys, two Writers Guild Award, the AAA Science Journalism Prize, the CINE Golden Eagle, and the International Archaeology Film Festival Award. Glassman received a BA from Goddard College, and an MFA in Directing from UCLA. Notable Mentionshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding_Gray (Spalding Gray )(June 5, 1941 – January 11, 2004) was an American actor and writer. He is best known for the autobiographical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-person_show (monologues) that he wrote and performed for the theater in the 1980s and 1990s, as well as for his film adaptations of these works, beginning in 1987. He wrote and starred in several, working with different directors. Theater critics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Willis (John Willis) and Ben Hodges called Gray's monologues "trenchant, personal narratives delivered on sparse, unadorned sets with a dry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant (WASP), quiet mania."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding_Gray#cite_note-1 ([1]): 316  https://providencepictures.com/ (Providence Pictures): “Since 1996, Providence Pictures has been collaborating with the world's leading broadcasters on more than fifty films seen by millions of people around the globe and honored with television's most prestigious awards.Providence Pictures is building on our foundation of innovative premium documentaries, expanding our repertoire with feature films that stir hearts and inspire action, and venturing into the ultimate sci-fi dream with an augmented reality time travel app. We believe stories can change the world.”:  https://providencepictures.com/our-work/show/building-wonders-of-the-world (Building the Wonders of the World:) A Providence Pictures series that explores the secrets of the Parthenon, Riddles of the Sphinx, Building the Great Cathedrals, Colosseum Roman Death Trap, Hagia Sophia Istanbuls Ancient Mystery, Petra Lost City of Stone. The series received nominations for Outstanding Writing, Outstanding Science and Technology Programming, Outstanding Cinematography, Writers Guild of America Award, Best Film of the International Archaeological Film Festival, CINE Special Jury Award https://providencepictures.com/our-work/show/native-america (Native America): is a four-part PBS series that challenges everything we thought we knew about the Americas before and since contact with Europe. It travels through 15,000-years to showcase massive cities, unique systems of science, art, and writing, and 100 million people connected by social networks and spiritual beliefs spanning two continents. The series reveals some of the most advanced cultures in human history and the Native American people who created it. ...

For Video Edition, Please Click and Subscribe Here: https://youtu.be/Csh1vyYfWvA For the first time ever, world-acclaimed solo performer Ronald Rand and Goodwill Cultural Ambassador in 25 countries reveals how a solo performance is born, takes off, and can change the face of the world. Step inside his extraordinary two-hour transformation becoming 79-year-old theatre director Harold Clurman in his celebrated solo play LET IT BE ART! to discover an organic process creating your own dynamic solo performance on stage using Stanislavski's original acting chart “The Method of Physical Actions” to live completely inside your storytelling. The theater is a transcendent communication of the human spirit, flowing from the passion of all those creating in collaboration with each other. Transformation is the embodiment of our joy of being alive. SOLO TRANSFORMATION ON STAGE will: Help you write, direct, and star in your own one-person show. Demonstrate how creation takes place before an actor comes on stage. Guide you toward following your genuine impulses. Allow transformation to occur organically. Inspire you to live completely inside your storytelling and trust your inner compass to fly solo as a performer. Empower you to take your show ‘on the road' around the world through the ‘Art of Transformation'. You'll find over twenty inspiring interviews by brilliant performers who performed in solo plays including Christopher Plummer, Eve Ensler, Ben Vereen, Stephen Lang, Billy Crudup, Olympia Dukakis Adrienne Barbeau, Spalding Gray. Solo Transformation On Stage is a must-read for all those who have dreamed of creating their own one-person show - including actors, students, teachers, directors, and lovers of the theater.

BONUS EPISODE: A few years ago, my late friend Stan Hillas and I were working on creating a piece about radio pioneer Joe Frank in a Joe Frank style. Set in the mid-90's, the story is about an old girlfriend, who along with her Julie Christie lookalike friend fantasized about meeting Joe Frank. Music and sound design by Stan Hillas. PEOPLE: Joe Frank, Spalding Gray, Ray Bradbury, Julie Christie Laurie Anderson, O.J. Simpson, Dan Klass, Martin Scorsese PLACES: The Wiltern, Glendale, New Orleans THINGS: Fahrenheit 451, performance art, podcasting, witchcraft GENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journal PHOTO: Joe Frank Stan RECORDED: 2018? HYPE: "It's a beatnik kinda literary thing in a podcast cloak of darkness." Timothy Kimo Brien (cohost on Podwrecked and host of Create Art Podcast) DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.  

BONUS EPISODE: A few years ago, my late friend Stan Hillas and I were working on creating a piece about radio pioneer Joe Frank in a Joe Frank style. Set in the mid-90's, the story is about an old girlfriend, who along with her Julie Christie lookalike friend fantasized about meeting Joe Frank.Music and sound design by Stan Hillas.AUDIO LINKPEOPLE: Joe Frank, Spalding Gray, Ray Bradbury, Julie Christie Laurie Anderson, O.J. Simpson, Dan Klass, Martin ScorsesePLACES: The Wiltern, Glendale, New OrleansTHINGS: Fahrenheit 451, performance art, podcasting, witchcraftGENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journalPHOTO: Joe Frank StanRECORDED: 2018?HYPE: "It's a beatnik kinda literary thing in a podcast cloak of darkness." Timothy Kimo Brien (cohost on Podwrecked and host of Create Art Podcast)DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised. 

The Wooster Group, perched on a street corner in Soho in downtown New York, has been at the forefront of experimental theater for some 40 years. Their startling performances unravel and transform classic texts by Brecht, Shakespeare, Chekhov, Eugene O'Neill, along with their own shocking original works. Six Obies, nine Bessies, accolades from around the world as they tour their works through Europe and Asia. Singular, rigorous, flamboyant. Theater. One of the more ephemeral of art forms. How to preserve the work, chronicle it, archive it for the ages? Yes, there are scripts, props, sets, costumes — a pair of muddy shoes from a 1981 production of Route 1 & 9. But what about experimental theater? Devoted to process, improvisation, the dense layering of ideas and texts and sound and image? How do you catalog something in a constant state of flux? Enter Clay Hapaz who started as an intern at The Wooster Group in 1992 and in 2002 became their official archivist. Voices you'll hear include Clay Hapaz, Kate Valk, Frances McDormand, Hilton Als, Peter Sellars, Spalding Gray and Elizabeth LeCompte. Produced by The Kitchen Sisters (Davia Nelson & Nikki Silva) and Evan Jacoby in collaboration with Brandi Howell and Nathan Dalton. Mixed by Jim McKee.   Special Thanks: Clay Hapaz, Kate Valk, Frances McDormand, Juliet Lashinsky-Revene, Hilton Als, Peter Sellars, The Wooster Group Drama Club and Elizabeth LeCompte. Music: Matt Dougherty (his company) and The Wooster Group's archive. Thanks also to Lumi Tan, Lewanne Jones and Claire Maske. Support for the Stories comes from The National Endowment for the Arts & Listener Contributions to The Kitchen Sisters Productions (Many thanks) The Kitchen Sisters Present is part of the Radiotopia Podcast Network on PRX. Thanks for listening

Hey Dude, on the Day of the Dead I quietly celebrated a year without drinking. Meanwhile a random 50,000-Watt punch to the gut leads to a new lease on life.QUOTE: "Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the drum."AUDIO LINKPEOPLE: Chris Lambert, Kristin Smart, Robert Towne, Spalding Gray, Jack KerouacPLACES: Walter Reed Junior High, Notre Dame High School, North Hollywood High SchoolTHINGS: circus, 2020 Election, Day of the Dead, baseball, Your Own Backyard Podcast, Radio, Dodgers, Opening Day, 50,000-Watts, quicksand, Back to the Future, playwright, Monster in a Box, On the Road, The Sun Also Rises, MacGuffin, Rosebud, AA, 12-StepsSOUNDS: crow, necklace charms, jet, footsteps, gravel path, Laguna Sawdust Cowbell Chimes, wind, propeller airplane, helicopter.GENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journalPHOTO: "Enchanted Lance at Descanso" via Marisol's iPhone XSRECORDED: November 4, 2021 from the "Wawona Lawn" under the flight path of the Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, CaliforniaGEAR: Sony ICD PX370 digital voice recorder and Sony ECM CS3 "tie-clip" microphone.HYPE: "It's a beatnik kinda literary thing in a podcast cloak of darkness." Timothy Kimo Brien (cohost on Podwreckedand host of Create Art Podcast)DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.

Hey Dude, on the Day of the Dead I quietly celebrated a year without drinking. Meanwhile a random 50,000-Watt punch to the gut leads to a new lease on life. QUOTE: "Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the drum." PEOPLE: Chris Lambert, Kristin Smart, Robert Towne, Spalding Gray, Jack Kerouac PLACES: Walter Reed Junior High, Notre Dame High School, North Hollywood High School THINGS: circus, 2020 Election, Day of the Dead, baseball, Your Own Backyard Podcast, Radio, Dodgers, Opening Day, 50,000-Watts, quicksand, Back to the Future, playwright, Monster in a Box, On the Road, The Sun Also Rises, MacGuffin, Rosebud, AA, 12-Steps SOUNDS: crow, necklace charms, jet, footsteps, gravel path, Laguna Sawdust Cowbell Chimes, wind, propeller airplane, helicopter. GENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journal PHOTO: "Enchanted Lance at Descanso" via Marisol's iPhone XS RECORDED: November 4, 2021 from the "Wawona Lawn" under the flight path of the Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California GEAR: Sony ICD PX370 digital voice recorder and Sony ECM CS3 "tie-clip" microphone. HYPE: "It's a beatnik kinda literary thing in a podcast cloak of darkness." Timothy Kimo Brien (cohost on Podwrecked and host of Create Art Podcast) DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.  

Gray's Anatomy (Soderbergh, 1996) is the last proper cinematic monologue we have from Spalding Gray. That's a little ironic. Here, he navigates neuroses, a serious eye injury, and what he terms the Bermuda Triangle of health to come out the other side a little wiser, more experienced, and with his… The post Episode 167 – Gray's Anatomy appeared first on The Magic Lantern.

Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of The Wrinkled Rabbit Podcast! This week we're talking about David Byrne's first and only directorial effort, True Stories. The film is about a small Texas town, filled with strange and musical characters, celebrates its sesquicentennial and converage on a local parade and talent show. It stars David Byrne, John Goodman, Swoosie Kurtz, Spalding Gray, Annie McEnroe, and Jo Harvey Allen.   Next Week's Movie: Kubo and the Two Strings YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/c/WrinkledRabbitProductions Twitter: https://twitter.com/WrinkledRabbit Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wrinkledrabbit/  

In today's episode, I welcome Sharon Glassman! Sharon is the creator, designer, and singer/songwriter of Smile Cards, and has a rich career history as a journalist, voiceover artist, podcast host, storyteller, and author. Her belief in serendipity, where "preparation meets opportunity," has led her along an amazing creative journey. Hear her share about the highs and lows of her life, and how she brings joy to the world through her homemade cards now. (Fun fact: the cover image is a photo of one of Sharon's cards!)   Get in touch with Sharon Glassman: www.smilesongs.com/vip | www.instagram.com/smile_songs  Enroll in Lindsey's dance and wellness courses: www.elevateart.thinkific.com  Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com Get a free audiobook through Audible!  http://www.audibletrial.com/ArtfullyTold Schedule your own interview as a featured guest with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview   Episode 59 - Sharon Glassman Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art. [00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life. [00:00:12]Roman:  All I can do is put my part in to the world. [00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough. [00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.  [00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi friends, whether you are just getting started or you're a seasoned professional looking to up your game, I have an exciting opportunity for you. Did you know that I am actually the creator of 10 different courses online that range from ballet, jazz, tap. They also include a mindset detox course and two Stretch and Tone courses. So if you're looking to start a new hobby or get a little bit fitter, or you're looking to do a deep dive into your mindset, really perform a true detox, I have the course for you, and I would love to help you out with that. So if you go to elevateart.thinkific.com, you will see all of the different courses I've created. [00:01:26] You don't have to step in a classroom to take your first dance class. I teach a signature 20 Moves in 20 Days course that allows you to learn 20 steps in just 20 days. It's a lot of fun. We have a great time together. And I think you're going to absolutely love the different courses. And artfully told listeners get a little something from me. So if you go, you'll sign up and use the promo code "artfullytold," all one word, and when you do so you'll get 15% off the purchase of any and all your favorite courses. All right, listeners, enjoy that. Again, it's elevateart.thinkific.com. See you there. [00:02:11]Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, Sharon Glassman. She is a multimedia artist and she is also the designer and songwriter of smiles, songs, cards, and gifts that sing, which I am just so excited about. So excited to hear her stories. So thank you so much for being here today. [00:02:41] Sharon Glassman: Thanks so much for chatting with me, Lindsey, I'm really excited to chat with you. [00:02:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay! Well, I would love it if you would share just a little bit about your background, maybe what got you started. And I know you have had such a very cool career, so many different unique opportunities. So I just can't wait to dive in and hear all about them. [00:03:00] Sharon Glassman: Sure. Well, the first image that comes to mind that I feel like started me on the path here, creating cards and gifts that are designed to make folks really feel loved and seen and appreciated and happy, is sitting at my parents' kitchen table around the age of 10 and doing an illustrated book of an original poem. And I was cutting up pieces of paper and covering some of them in tinfoil to make this sort of like multi-layered 3D illustration thing. And I think that was the first step to getting here was sort of breaking the rules. But finding ways to make things combining different things, kind of like peanut butter and chocolate in an arty way to make folks feel good. [00:03:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Okay. And then I know you've done a vast number of things and I can't wait to hear about them, but do you want to speak more to what you're doing right now to start? [00:03:53] Sharon Glassman: Sure. So right now, I have a line of greeting cards for just because reasons about reaching out to a friend, plus the usual stuff like birthdays. I'm working on a new baby card right now. I'm super excited, holiday stuff, moms', dads' day, that kind of stuff. And the way that they sing is that I design a QR code and I link it back to an original song that I write to amplify the colors and the design and the message, because you know, when you're out in the world and something makes you feel happy, it usually doesn't just touch one of your senses with art. It usually engages several of them. So if you see a sunny day and there's a blue sky, and then the breeze blows and you smell a flower, that's a whole bunch of senses combining. And my challenge and a commitment has been, how do I create that feeling for folks? [00:04:51]Lindsey Dinneen: Neat! And I love the idea of including multiple senses in this experience, because I think, oh, that just makes it so much richer. Oh, neat. What a unique idea. Okay. How did you come up with that? [00:05:04]Sharon Glassman: It was an invitation. It was a creative challenge. Very briefly, because my career is a little non-linear, I started out being a terrified style writer in New York City. I'm an introvert by nature. So I function well when I'm listening, when I'm observing, and I really do want the answers to questions, but at that point in my life, I was just way too scared to go to a fashion designer and say, "Hey, let's talk." I was so scared about asking the wrong question. And that led me to hack my career for the first time. And what I began to do was tell stories on stage. I would ask people about their love life. I would ask people their love stories. I would ask questions, but I somehow wasn't scared when it wasn't journalism. [00:05:49] And then I would go share them to make people again, feel loved and appreciated for who they were. I traveled around the country doing this, and that led me to move to Colorado where I became a performing songwriter. And at that point, what had happened was folks in the audience, a lot of them introverts and kindhearted, highly sensitive people would say to me, "That song makes me feel really like you're talking to me and telling me about my best self. If only I could take you home and put you on my wall or have you around, because what I'm seeing when I hear you is so inspiring too." And I thought, "Yeah, let me think about that for a second, because I think I can make that dream come true." [00:06:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. How cool. Well, and I, I'm so intrigued. Okay. So you went from just feeling like you said, kind of fearful and introverted, and so, so was that kind of a discovery of that maybe journalism isn't for you? Or do you still dabble in that at all? Or what kind of happened with that component? [00:07:00] Sharon Glassman: Well, I think it's continued in a number of different ways. I feel like the words that I'm using on my card are a form of journalism because they come from really hearing what folks hear about and need. It's a little bit of copywriting too, which is something else I've done. But what happened for me was the minute that I found my comfort zone, which is an introverted comfort zone, I do things differently. I would never be the kind of journalist that you could send out to cover a five alarm fire or that kind of thing. But I am still a journalist who, on occasion, will do a feature about somebody. I just was doing a column in our local paper called "Ask the Introvert," where I was exploring lifestyle issues for introverts. It comes and goes-- the journalism part-- but really what I think it did was to train me to be observant, to take notes, to recognize a soundbite when I hear one, which again, leads to the lyrics in my songs and the messages on the audio. [00:08:03]Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Yeah. So it just has continued to impact you. And of course, those skills that you developed have obviously been useful throughout, you know, your career, even now. And that's, I think really cool how sometimes, you know, a path that we discover isn't for us can still-- those skills and those, those learning experiences that you had can be brought forward into something else. And I think that that's such a magical thing about recognizing that maybe the circumstance wasn't ideal, but this is still pretty cool what you get to do as a result, you know. Yeah, that's just special. All right. I have so many things to ask you about. Okay, so I know that you've also been a voiceover artists for cable TV. Can you share a little bit about that? How cool. [00:08:51]Sharon Glassman:  Sure. And that was a case of serendipity-- What is it? Preparation meeting opportunity. I had gone from being a journalist. I was a copywriter for a cable, big cable TV company. And again, it wasn't my happy place. There were moments that were really exciting that again, would train me about graphic design that I would use later, but I was pretty unhappy and I decided to get some training doing voiceover work and I'd put together my demo tape, my little cassette at that time. And I was down in the subway and I bumped into a guy from the cable company I worked for and he said, "You don't happen to do voiceover, do you? 'Cause I've got this thing that I think would be great for you." And I said, "As a matter of fact, here's my brand new demo tape." And he said, "Okay!" And he called me back and he said, "You're hired for this job." And at the same time, I went to a meet and greet opportunity and got signed by an agent. So I had an agent and a job and that let me transition away from my last corporate job and start sort of creating a career. That's a bit of a mosaic. So there are things that I focus on or I'm doing more at one time. And then there are kind of the backup singers of my career that then let me do things like voiceover, or maybe write an article while I focus on, you know, the business that I'm working on. [00:10:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, so cool. I love those stories of just that sort of serendipity, you know, things coming together, but it's not just random chance you had to do the work too, you know, like you had this demo tape, but that was something that you wanted to pursue and then opportunity intersected. And it was just cool. I love those stories. Awesome. And then I also know that you have been a podcaster yourself or co-host of a podcast and have a pretty cool connection there. Do you want to chat about that too? [00:10:45] Sharon Glassman: Sure. So after I moved to Colorado-- again, something that looked like a door closing or possibly burning down happened-- I was living out kind of in the suberbs. And there was a fire in the house next door that convinced me it was time to move. And I ended up moving up into the Hills to house sit and when I was doing that, somebody said, "Oh, you know, one of your neighbors is a writer for the "Golden Girls."" And I said, "I didn't know that," but I actually announced the Golden Girls on lifetime television back in New York on cable.  It's kind of like that one degree of separation. So they introduced us and we were talking. Yeah. And, he said, "Yeah, I'm going to be working on this podcast for an insurance company. It's branded, branded content as they call it in the business for baby boomers. Would you have any interest in helping me?" and I was like, "That would be awesome." And before you knew it, I was co-hosting it. And we ran for a year on terrestrial radio, both in LA and Colorado. And then of course, as you know, with podcasts, around the globe and perhaps beyond into the universe, that was pretty cool. [00:11:52] Lindsey Dinneen: That is super cool. Yeah. And, oh my goodness. Yes. I just love all these different, cool little things that you've gotten to do. And I know you've been an author as well. And you know, obviously as a journalist-- that, I mean, is obviously a form of writing-- but have you written your own book or what kind of authoring have you done? [00:12:13] Sharon Glassman: Sure. Again, the, the, the winding road that is my career led to some pretty nifty things. And I think we had talked just a little bit earlier that after I left journalism, I sort of hacked it and began telling reported stories on stage. And one story that really caught my attention --we're back in New York now-- was something at the time called Operation Santa Claus that had an amazing history. In New York City, there's a very large central post office. And it's a very dramatic building. It's a stunningly beautiful Beaux Arts building. And what I found out was that every year around Christmas time, they would take letters to Santa written by kids and families who needed help with gifts for themselves or gifts for each other, and they would make them available to the general public to answer. And this had been going on since the Great Depression. It started when people at that time needed help and postal workers would actually fulfill those letters. And then over the years, it grew into something just spectacular. And my joke about it was that the person who would just steal your cab a second earlier was stealing it to get to the post office to answer a letter. So it kind of brought out the best in New Yorkers. [00:13:22] And there were more letters than there were Santa's Secret Santas at that time. And I thought that that was-- I could help. So it's a combination of reporting on the story, but then also I had had an experience that I-- I tend to like to use my personal experiences, to show my foibles in a way to invite people, to not be scared of making a mistake, but to get involved and to help. I had gone to the post office and I come from a Jewish family, not a religious family, but a culturally Jewish family. So we weren't allowed to have Christmas. It was like the great forbidden guest. And this was a way for me to sneak in and be an anonymous Santa and get my Christmas fix at the same time. [00:14:01] And so I answered three letters and I made a ginormous mistake. I was just old enough to not know what the kids were wanting. And one of my letters asked for something, asked me for a First Down jacket. And I got very emotional. I was like, "This child has never had a down jacket. They want their first down jacket." I'm going to go get this the puffiest, warmest, dorkiest, you know, jacket that I can find. And the story that I would tell to invite other people to participate would be after running around town and getting this really-- as I said-- big puffy jacket, I managed to get it into the deadline and get it to the post office, mail it just in time, only to walk outside and see a really cool- looking little kid wearing a very thin down jacket with a big label on it that said First Down. [00:14:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh! Oh, no. So it was a brand. It wasn't a style. [00:14:55] Sharon Glassman: Right, right. [00:14:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, jeez Louise. That's hilarious. Oh my gosh. [00:14:59] Sharon Glassman: Right? And it took me back to a Christmas experience I had had as a kid when we, you know, when I was still a believer in Santa, when I wanted a Easy-Bake Oven. And Santa brought me a Suzy Homemaker Oven, and I was like, "What's wrong with Santa? Why doesn't Santa get that there's an enormous difference? One of these things is really cool and one of them is super dorky. I'll never be like that when I grow up." Oh yes, you will. [00:15:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. I love that story. And what a cool organization. I didn't, I wasn't aware of that. Is that in more cities than just New York or, you know, is that like more of a-- because it should be a national thing. That's really cool. [00:15:35] Sharon Glassman: It should be. Well, and I traveled around the country, I, that was the book that I published. It was called "Love, Santa." I got a book deal with Warner Books, which is now I think Grand Central Publishing. And we turned it into kind of a holiday gift book with a how-to at the end. So you can have your own "Love, Santa" party. I traveled around to companies and you know, how folks in companies would be like, "Oh, it's Secret Santa time. Great. I'm going to get you a soap and you'll get me a lip balm. And we'll both be like, what else? "But this, instead I would come in and say, "Let's maybe not do that.  You can answer letters to kids and families together and buy food and clothing and beds." And so that was remarkable. And I traveled around the country with those letters from New York, but I believe that there must be, or were other programs like that throughout the country. It's just people are so good at heart, and this was a great way for everyone to come together and make a difference. And it was, it was a pretty great experience. [00:16:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is so good. And I'm totally gonna read that book because I just, I was so inspired by that story and yeah, that, that is cool. I, I hope that it is something that I can participate too locally or start or something I'm like, "Oh my goodness, this is just fantastic." Well, yeah, I'm sure that you have, you know,  obviously such an amazing career and, and all of that. And where do you see yourself kind of going from here? Obviously you're building your business, which is fantastic and a huge time-taking endeavor, but are there other things that you're continuing to kind of dabble in on the side, or things like in the future you want to kind of pursue too? [00:17:11] Sharon Glassman: Well, I have a musical duo with the man I call my fiddle beau, which is a little bit of a pun, the  B E A U . I am a nerd. I'm a nerdy punster. And we're called the Jamison's Duo and we play jazz-inspired or jazz-influenced bluegrass. He comes from Kentucky, he comes from the bluegrass state. So we continue to do that. And that's fun on the side. Yeah. And right now I'm moving into wholesaling for my business. And so it's interesting because, because I'm writing music as well as designing products. I've learned how to record at home. And so I'm working on the next set of songs for the next set of designs for the next, you know, working on Christmas 2021 right now, and looking ahead to 2022. So I'm really in a learning phase as I expand from retail into wholesale. And that is really where my time and focus is now. But you know, there's always the creative pursuits of like baking stuff and cooking stuff, 'cause you got to eat while you do all this art stuff. [00:18:13] Lindsey Dinneen: That is so true. And if you make it fun, you know, by being creative, then it's, it's a lot more enjoyable of a process and doesn't feel like a chore. [00:18:21]Sharon Glassman: Yeah, and I think that these things inspire each other too. I just, I just did a new greeting card that I'm really excited about and it says, "Season your life with love." And it has a bowl with hearts in it, and you know, the salt shaker putting love into your food, which then puts love into your life. And I think all these things are really tied together. It's that sensory, cross sensory concept again. [00:18:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I absolutely agree. And so I'm curious --I'm sure that you've had so many moments during your career so far, during your life so far, that kind of stand out, but I'm, I'm wondering if there are specific ones that stand out in your memory either when you witnessed somebody experience your own art, or when you experienced somebody else's art, where it was just sort of this like moment that mattered. I need to file this away and remember. [00:19:10]Sharon Glassman: Wow. Such a great question. There are a couple, I have a couple of both, I guess. There was a moment-- there was a stage storyteller whose name was Spalding Gray, and he really defined the genre of standing up on a stage and telling a story, his were usually from his life, as opposed to reported usually, but he was just a master of that genre and seeing him definitely changed my life, both creatively and just inspired me. And I had a big art crush on him and actually got to almost meet him after a show. He performed at someone's home in Philadelphia, but introvert was too scared to talk to him, which then of course became a story about not talking about the person that you're talking to, the person that you want to talk to you.  Seeing him was life-changing. Hearing a lot of the music that I hear here in Colorado, we're very close to a town that I call the Nashville of Colorado and the musicians around here that we just get to hear and play with on a daily basis-- that's been a life-changing experience. Yeah. I mean, and seeing them like in the grocery store, I mean, you're like, "Oh, hello, music person." And now with pandemic zooming, we're able to see shows coming in from Nashville on a weekly basis. So we have our little Chinese food/ Nashville, bluegrass situation going on in our house on Friday nights, where we bring in Chinese food and then sit on the side of the table that faces the TV, down in the TV room, and dial up insanely talented, like world-class musicians and it's kind of like we have a front row to these concerts, so that's pretty exciting. [00:20:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is super exciting. And it's so fun too, because you know, okay. So obviously the pandemic has been very challenging for many, many, many people. And there, there are a lot of difficult things as a result, but at the same time, to hear from artists who've kind of learned to adapt and pivot and, and now like the world opened up, you know, and we have these super cool opportunities to see a concert that we might not have been able to before, or would have been very challenging to try to get there or something. And so it's, you know, on one hand, it's maybe not the way that we would have wished that it came about, but it's pretty cool what we get to do and who we get to see and experience that maybe otherwise we wouldn't have. [00:21:49]Sharon Glassman: I do think the digital aspect of the arts right now was probably trending to this place but was definitely jump-started by the situation that we find ourselves in. I think more and more, and especially as an introvert, again, getting back to this, so things that other people find fun, for me personally, it can be just exhausting. I need to go to bed for a day afterwards, just because I've had all the feels, and all the feels like kind of exhausted all the energies. The digital world for me is a very comfortable place. And again, going back to the QR codes that make my card sing, finding that digital piece. And before that, I had done a podcast that I published on bottles of wine with a local winery here, again, using QR codes. [00:22:37] And so I had an entire cast of local people who are actors and non-actors performing this novel that I wrote with, which I wrote songs for ,and the way that we were able to deliver it was-- and I'll do a little parenthetical-- I think being in the same place at the same time increasingly is not a thing that's viable for lots of people at lots of situations. So where you used to try and get the largest live audience you could to see what you were doing, and that meant that you, it was working. I think now we're kind of pixelated and each of us has a desire to see something when we want to see it or here to experience it. And that may be where art is going is more of a one-on-one albeit digital connection. [00:23:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I like that. Well, and I think there's value to that too, because it makes it feel more personal and yeah, just a little bit more of an accessible, sort of intimate way of experiencing art, and that is special. Yeah. And you're right, because, you know-- so I'm a dancer and I have a professional dance company and we would define success on some level, just on a practical level, I would say-- but yeah, the number of tickets that we sold to our shows-- and it's interesting because, you know, on a more fundamental level, our whole goal is to bring joy and inspiration to people. And so that can happen in a lot of different ways, even more so now with us, you know, kind of pivoting even our own direction and filming and doing that kind of thing. And it doesn't, yeah, the  reach is, is different, but it, it's exciting. [00:24:20]Sharon Glassman: Well, I can't wait to watch you guys dance online. You have to send me a link. So this is really exciting to me because now I love watching dance and yeah, I would love to see that now. And I know you, and now I'm like super excited. Like I can't wait to see you. But this is, this is how this happens through a podcast, which is a digital medium. And if it didn't exist, we might not have connected. 'Cause I don't know the next time I'm going-- I've never been to Kansas City and I don't know that you've been to Longmont, Colorado-- but we're connected and now I can see your stuff and you can hear my stuff. And who knows, maybe there's a collaboration down the road that comes from that or some other things. So I think that is a really exciting 21st century arts creation and progress that has so many ramifications. I don't think we know them all yet, but we are exploring them, which is pretty cool. [00:25:07] Lindsey Dinneen: It is. Yes. I couldn't agree more. I'm so excited about yes, all of these artistic collisions. I'll put it, put it that way. And, the opportunities that can kind of come from a more open world, in a sense, and it's, it's exciting, good things are coming. Well, I'm sure that there are listeners who would love to connect with you and, you know, support and follow your work. Is there a way for them to do that? [00:25:34]Sharon Glassman: Absolutely. In terms of social media, I tend to be more of an Instagram person, and on Instagram I am smile underscore songs, but yeah, you can always get to me and find the Insta link and all that good stuff on my website, which is just smilesongs.com. And for your listeners, if they would like a little discount on cards and gifts that sing, you can sign up at smilesongs.com/vip, and then you'll get my news and find out what's going on and get the 20% off coupon and all that groovy stuff. So I think those are probably the two places and you can always reach me. There's a contact button there. So you can say hi, or ask me a question. I'm always excited to hear from people and find out maybe what they want. Like maybe there's a, a card or a message that they need in their life. And I'm always excited to hear about that. [00:26:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's super cool. Well, yeah. Thank you also for being so generous. I am so excited that you shared that with us and we can go and support your work. So thank you for that. I love it. Well, I always ask my guests the same three questions if you're okay with that. [00:26:55] Sharon Glassman: Oh, yes. [00:26:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, good. Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you? [00:27:04] Sharon Glassman: Wowza! That's sounds like one of those great, like questions of all time, like, you know, what is the meaning of life kind of thing? How do you define art? Wow. I think it's a feeling generated by a selective something. So it could be a painting. It could be a dance. It could be a song, but I think it's that combination of created experience and emotion. [00:27:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Love it. Excellent. And then what do you think is the most important role of an artist? [00:27:46]Sharon Glassman: I think if you truly believe it, see it, want to share it. That I think is probably what makes art, art. There's something there that's just intrinsically real. [00:28:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And then my final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit. Is do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive referring to an artist who puts their work out into the world and provide some context behind it, whether it's a title or show notes or the inspiration versus an artist who puts their work out into the world, but doesn't provide context behind it. So it's exclusive in the sense that it's left entirely up to the viewer or the participant to see what they will. [00:28:43] Sharon Glassman: Wow. That's really interesting. Okay. I think both of those things. I'm going to go for both of, both of the, all of the above, because I can imagine-- I'm just picturing an art gallery. For some reason, I can picture walking in an art gallery and actually the exhibit being a series of paintings that have no title cards whatsoever, followed by a room where we see the same paintings with the title cards. And that experience would be super cool. Somebody do that and then let us know where it is so we can go. 'Cause that would be really cool. 'Cause you would be looking at the art and making up your own story and then you would be going into the other room and seeing either a curated version of that or the artist version of that. [00:29:27] But you know, so many paintings are called "Untitled." And I know that that gives us some information about like, you kind of go, "Oh, that's super cool. That person called their thing "Untitled." They're really pretty. Let me look at that. Well, it's a white, all white canvas called "Untitled." Dude, that's so deep." It's interesting. I think they're both interesting experiences, so I'm yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to stick with my, all of the above. [00:29:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Perfect. Love it. Okay. Well, Sharon, thank you so very much for being here today. I really appreciate it. And I loved hearing your stories, career, your, your life has been so interesting. And I just love hearing how all the different things have sort of intersected and collided a little bit into what you're doing right now, and how it's all kind of, you know, the writing, the singing, the storytelling, just all of those things are sort of woven into what you're doing now, and I just think that's really cool and special. So thank you for sharing your art with the world. I think it, I know it matters. I know it makes a difference in people's lives. And I, I know that I just appreciate that you do that. So thank you. And thank you again for being here today. This has been so fun. [00:30:36] Sharon Glassman: Lindsey, it's been delightful chatting with you, and I cannot wait to see you dance. This is really exciting. New friends, new friends, new art, or like I'm excited. It's going to make my day happier. I love this idea of spreading the joy through art and conversation. [00:30:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yay. Yes, absolutely. Well, and thank you so much to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two and we will catch you next time. [00:31:07]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told. [00:31:17]Hi friends. I wanted to share with you another podcast that I think you're going to fall in love with just as I have. It's called Harlem with a View, and it is hosted by Harlem Lennox, who was a previous guest of mine on Artfully Told and a dear friend. Just because it looks easy doesn't mean it is. There is so much that goes into the work of your creative. She wants to know how the artists got into their line of work, what inspires them, but most importantly, what keeps them going? She'd asked them about how they make it through the blood, sweat, and tears. She wants to know what it's like to live this creative life: the good, the bad, the ugly, and even the magical. So she goes behind the scenes with creatives, from different genres and she explores their history, their take on life and talks about the business of art and the dedication of making art. She has a brilliant, brilliant platform. I think you will fall in love. I highly recommend that you search for Harlem with a View. Thanks!

Bill Smitrovich is an exceptional TV/film *Actor, Director & Producer * Thirteen Days, Iron Man, The Rum Diary & Ted.* Pt. 2 We have signed auto graph cards for Patreon supporters of the show! His early theatre days and starring in David Mamet's play American Buffalo atThe Geffen Playhouse! Check out Bill's Golf Link below for celebrity golf competition. Bill earned his big break in an understudy role in the world premiere of Arthur Miller's "The American Clock." Plays: "Food from Trash," "Requiem for a Heavyweight," "Far East" and "Frankie & Johnny at the Claire de Lune." Bill was a founding member of the No Theatre Company, whose members included Willem Dafoe and the late Spalding Gray. Bill Recently played a general in Kevin Costner's Cuban Missile Crisis drama Thirteen Days. He also played Alexander Haig in the TV-movie biopic on Ronald Reagan starring James Brolin and Judy Davis. Bill is an avid golfer, and helped launch a worldwide golf competition with golf pros and celebrities. http://golf.pleace-awaken.org/english/players.html Thank you for listening & supporting the podcast :) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sneakies https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/anonymouscontent *Royal Girl* Funds will go to sound and editing. Paypal (friends & family) petcarebuddies@gmail.com https://www.patreon.com/sneakies Instagram @marylinartist LinkedIn: Marylin Hebert Please Subscribe to our YouTube:) https://www.youtube.com/user/Fellinijr/videos Zombie Diaries: https://youtu.be/tBmgi3k6r9A Our books :) Young Adult wizard book series: "Margaret Merlin's Journal" by A. A. Banks at Amazon! :) https://www.instagram.com/margaretmerlinsjournal/ MMJ Book I The Battle of the Black Witch https://www.amazon.com/Margaret-Merlins-Journal-Battle-Black-ebook/dp/B01634G3CK MMJ Book II Unleashing the Dark One --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/filmaddicts/support

Bill Smitrovich is an exceptional TV/film *Actor, Director & Producer * Thirteen Days, Iron Man, The Rum Diary & Ted.* Pt. 2 We have signed auto graph cards for Patreon supporters of the show! His early theatre days and starring in David Mamet's play American Buffalo atThe Geffen Playhouse! Check out Bill's Golf Link below for celebrity golf competition. Bill earned his big break in an understudy role in the world premiere of Arthur Miller's "The American Clock." Plays: "Food from Trash," "Requiem for a Heavyweight," "Far East" and "Frankie & Johnny at the Claire de Lune." Bill was a founding member of the No Theatre Company, whose members included Willem Dafoe and the late Spalding Gray. Bill Recently played a general in Kevin Costner's Cuban Missile Crisis drama Thirteen Days. He also played Alexander Haig in the TV-movie biopic on Ronald Reagan starring James Brolin and Judy Davis. Bill is an avid golfer, and helped launch a worldwide golf competition with golf pros and celebrities. http://golf.pleace-awaken.org/english/players.html Thank you for listening & supporting the podcast :) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sneakies https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/anonymouscontent *Royal Girl* Funds will go to sound and editing. Paypal (friends & family) petcarebuddies@gmail.com https://www.patreon.com/sneakies Instagram @marylinartist LinkedIn: Marylin Hebert Please Subscribe to our YouTube:) https://www.youtube.com/user/Fellinijr/videos Zombie Diaries: https://youtu.be/tBmgi3k6r9A Our books :) Young Adult wizard book series: "Margaret Merlin's Journal" by A. A. Banks at Amazon! :) https://www.instagram.com/margaretmerlinsjournal/ MMJ Book I The Battle of the Black Witch https://www.amazon.com/Margaret-Merlins-Journal-Battle-Black-ebook/dp/B01634G3CK MMJ Book II Unleashing the Dark One --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/filmaddicts/support

Bill Smitrovich is an exceptional TV and film *Actor, Director & Producer Pt. 1 Bill's favorite movies, directors and his big break in theatre doing an Author Miller play! {The WIN app Writing In Network! } *The November Man, "Penny Dreadful" Showtime Network, Independence Day & Co-Starred on A Nero Wolfe Mystery with Timothy Hutton and Maury Chaykin, had a recurring chief prosecutor role on The Practice and played a lieutenant in the Fox hit series Millennium. His many film roles include Key Exchange, Renegades, The Trigger Effect with Dermot Mulroney, Independence Day (1996) with Will Smith, a strong role as a public defender in Rob Reiner's Ghosts of Mississippi and Air Force One to name a few. Connecticut-born actor Bill Smitrovich (on May 16, 1947) started his acting career rather late. A Masters degree holder from Smith College and a former acting teacher at the University of Massachusetts, the hefty actor earned his big break in an understudy role in the world premiere of Arthur Miller's "The American Clock" at the Spoleto Festival, a production that went to Broadway. Other stage parts have included "Food from Trash," "Requiem for a Heavyweight," "Far East" and "Frankie & Johnny at the Claire de Lune." Bill was a founding member of the No Theatre Company, now in association with the Wooster Group, whose members included Willem Dafoe and the late Spalding Gray. Bill made his 1978 New York debut in the company's production of "The Elephant Man." *Thank you for listening & supporting the podcast :) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sneakies https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/anonymouscontent *Royal Girl* Funds will go to sound and editing. Paypal (friends & family) petcarebuddies@gmail.com https://www.patreon.com/sneakies Instagram @marylinartist LinkedIn: Marylin Hebert Please Subscribe to our YouTube:) https://www.youtube.com/user/Fellinijr/videos Zombie Diaries: https://youtu.be/tBmgi3k6r9A Our books :) Young Adult wizard book series: "Margaret Merlin's Journal" by A. A. Banks at Amazon! :) https://www.instagram.com/margaretmerlinsjournal/ MMJ Book I The Battle of the Black Witch https://www.amazon.com/Margaret-Merlins-Journal-Battle-Black-ebook/dp/B01634G3CK MMJ Book II Unleashing the Dark One --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/filmaddicts/support

Bill Smitrovich is an exceptional TV and film *Actor, Director & Producer Pt. 1 Bill's favorite movies, directors and his big break in theatre doing an Author Miller play! {The WIN app Writing In Network! } *The November Man, "Penny Dreadful" Showtime Network, Independence Day & Co-Starred on A Nero Wolfe Mystery with Timothy Hutton and Maury Chaykin, had a recurring chief prosecutor role on The Practice and played a lieutenant in the Fox hit series Millennium. His many film roles include Key Exchange, Renegades, The Trigger Effect with Dermot Mulroney, Independence Day (1996) with Will Smith, a strong role as a public defender in Rob Reiner's Ghosts of Mississippi and Air Force One to name a few. Connecticut-born actor Bill Smitrovich (on May 16, 1947) started his acting career rather late. A Masters degree holder from Smith College and a former acting teacher at the University of Massachusetts, the hefty actor earned his big break in an understudy role in the world premiere of Arthur Miller's "The American Clock" at the Spoleto Festival, a production that went to Broadway. Other stage parts have included "Food from Trash," "Requiem for a Heavyweight," "Far East" and "Frankie & Johnny at the Claire de Lune." Bill was a founding member of the No Theatre Company, now in association with the Wooster Group, whose members included Willem Dafoe and the late Spalding Gray. Bill made his 1978 New York debut in the company's production of "The Elephant Man." *Thank you for listening & supporting the podcast :) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sneakies https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/anonymouscontent *Royal Girl* Funds will go to sound and editing. Paypal (friends & family) petcarebuddies@gmail.com https://www.patreon.com/sneakies Instagram @marylinartist LinkedIn: Marylin Hebert Please Subscribe to our YouTube:) https://www.youtube.com/user/Fellinijr/videos Zombie Diaries: https://youtu.be/tBmgi3k6r9A Our books :) Young Adult wizard book series: "Margaret Merlin's Journal" by A. A. Banks at Amazon! :) https://www.instagram.com/margaretmerlinsjournal/ MMJ Book I The Battle of the Black Witch https://www.amazon.com/Margaret-Merlins-Journal-Battle-Black-ebook/dp/B01634G3CK MMJ Book II Unleashing the Dark One --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/filmaddicts/support

This week, a fiery discussion about Star Wars (yes, again) leads us into a discussion of two documentaries: Peter Jackson's colorized WWI documentary, They Shall Not Grow Old (2018), and Steven Soderbergh's archival film about the late and great monologuist Spalding Gray, And Everything Is Going Fine (2010). (CORRECTION: next week's movies are The Evil Dead and The Night of The Hunter)

Hey Dude, on my 16th anniversary of podcasting I remember my long lost buddy Joe and his tragic passing. I also trip on the brutal Allen v Farrow documentary. QUOTE: "I'm ready to chase after Spalding Gray." PEOPLE: Woody Allen, Dylan Farrow, Ronan Farrow, Rat Pack, Spalding Gray, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, David Letterman PLACES: Hollywood Burbank Airport, Universal City THINGS: podcasting, Allen v Farrow, HBO, Vanity Fair, Healthy Human, Hanna-Barbera, Kinko's SOUNDS: birds, footsteps, gravel path, Laguna Sawdust Cowbell Chimes, airplane, canteen GENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journal PHOTO: "Burbank Foothills from the Lookout Chair" Burbank, California  RECORDED: March 8, 2021 from the "Lookout Chair" under the flight path of the Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California GEAR: Sony ICD PX370 digital voice recorder and Sony ECM CS3 "tie-clip" microphone. HYPE: "It's a beatnik kinda literary thing in a podcast cloak of darkness." Timothy Kimo Brien (cohost on Podwrecked and host of Create Art Podcast) DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.

 Hey Dude, on my 16th anniversary of podcasting I remember my long lost buddy Joe and his tragic passing. I also trip on the brutal Allen v Farrow documentary.QUOTE: "I'm ready to chase after Spalding Gray."AUDIO LINKPEOPLE: Woody Allen, Dylan Farrow, Ronan Farrow, Rat Pack, Spalding Gray, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, David LettermanPLACES: Hollywood Burbank Airport, Universal CityTHINGS: podcasting, Allen v Farrow, HBO, Vanity Fair, Healthy Human, Hanna-Barbera, Kinko'sSOUNDS: birds, footsteps, gravel path, Laguna Sawdust Cowbell Chimes, airplane, canteenGENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journalPHOTO: "Burbank Foothills from the Lookout Chair" Burbank, California RECORDED: March 8, 2021 from the "Lookout Chair" under the flight path of the Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, CaliforniaGEAR: Sony ICD PX370 digital voice recorder and Sony ECM CS3 "tie-clip" microphone.HYPE: "It's a beatnik kinda literary thing in a podcast cloak of darkness." Timothy Kimo Brien (cohost on Podwrecked and host of Create Art Podcast)DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.

A discussion with international speaker, author, comedic entertainer, partner of Bliss Champions and co-author of "Unlocking Your Purpose" found on Purpose Code.com. Patrick has become one of my all-time favorite people because he lives in a state of bliss. He has found his purpose and he's filled with unlimited peace, joy and love. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. This one is definitely a highlight for me and hits home as I continue my own journey to find my ultimate bliss. Enjoy! Joe Patrick Combs: Connection with Patrick: https://www.facebook.com/patrick.combs "Unlocking You Purpose": purposecode.com Bliss Champions: blisschampions.com Patrick's website: patrickcombs.com/ Podcast Music By: Andy Galore, Album: "Out and About", Song: "Chicken & Scotch" 2014 Andy's Links: http://andygalore.com/ https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit: https://joecostelloglobal.libsyn.com Subscribe, Rate & Review: I would love if you could subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest rating & review. This will encourage other people to listen and allow us to grow as a community. The bigger we get as a community, the bigger the impact we can have on the world. Sign up for Joe's email newsletter at: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#signup For transcripts of episodes, go to: https://joecostelloglobal.lybsyn.com Follow Joe: https://linktr.ee/joecostello Transcript Joe: All right. Hey, Patrick Combs, welcome to the podcast. So glad to have you here. Man, I've been waiting for this, as you know, for quite a long time, a few few months now. I think. So I'm   Patrick: Yeah,   Joe: Really excited   Patrick: Thanks,   Joe: To do   Patrick: Joe.   Joe: This. Yeah.   Patrick: As as I have been too excited to be here with you.   Joe: Well, thank you, I appreciate it and I do appreciate your time. I know you're busy, guy. So so what I like to do is, you know, I was very intrigued by us meeting, even though it was all, you know, via the Web. But, you know, I had this opportunity to see you talk to the group that I was in and, you know, learn a little bit more about you. But what's amazing, and you already know this about yourself is your storytelling and all of that. But before we get into all that, I want to kind of give the audience the back story of who you are and where you know your progression, where you came from. And then we're going to talk about all the cool things that are happening today, because I know you have, like me, a lot of irons in the fire, but you have some really unique things. You're working on things that actually, you know, that resonate deeply with me. And that's the connection I have with you. And so I'd like for you to kind of explain, you know, who where you came from, who you are. And then we'll get into the nitty gritty of everything.   Patrick: Ok, that's nice, Joe. Well, I am, I am I was raised by a single mother. In Bend, Oregon, which a lot of people are familiar with these days, because I guess been super big and super nice, but when I was in Bend, it was super nice, but not super big was sixteen thousand people. And I was my mother, a licensed practical nurse, raised my brother and I on a very small salary in high school. We were living in a trailer house, which was no problem. But, you know, let me just sort of sketch and nobody from our family had ever gone to college. But my mom was a pioneer. She was the one from our family tree that was reaching for Moore, and her primary way of doing that was to encourage my brother and I with phrases like Do what you love. Learn to work with your mind. Don't worry about your mistakes, look it up for yourself in the encyclopedias. That's what I bought those damn things for. And so I was the first person from my family to go to college and. In college, it's first at Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon, and then at San Francisco State, I began to really realize that my purpose had something to do with uplifting and performing.   Patrick: And today, I know I'm fifty four and I know my purpose very clearly, it is through performance and story to uplift. And so but but, you know, you're in your 20s, you're trying to figure out what to do with your life. I felt all the calls, all the tugs in the direction of my purpose. And I could not be more grateful that just by by God's grace, I feel so I don't feel very responsible. The older I get, the less responsible I feel for my choices. I just feel grateful for them. But the greatest choice I ever made in my life and I think the first greatest choice I ever made in my life was that I was going to be an inspirational speaker. Come hell or high water is starting at twenty six years old and an author. And so without any connections, without, quote, the appropriate background or credentials or accomplishments, I did that. I became a paid professional, inspirational speaker, and it's twenty five years later and I've spoken all over the place, but there's been a million people that have that have been in front of me and my audience is listening to me waxen. And then along the way, I expect, you know, I took that purpose and and I expanded into other joyful callings, this the the second that I'm the second sort of biggest imprint that I'm known for, I think, is that I created a comedic.   Patrick: Solo comedy show for and I performed it all around the world in theaters. So if you look in broad strokes at me, if you go Patrick Combs, who is this guy and you read my bio and stuff, you you read Hall of Fame, inspirational speaker. You read comedic performer with the smash hit show and an author of five or six time author. So that's what I look like on paper. And behind the scenes, you know, I have just I have I just live doing what I love. That's been the great game of my life to live doing what I love. To place my joy. Even above my my above money, because somehow I knew early on that if I placed money above Joy, I would not end up joyful and probably not even end up healthy. So so today I have a third company and it's called Bliss Champions, and I and my business partner and I help people really lock into that great truth, unlock their purpose and maximize their joy.   Joe: So I have so many questions. OK, first question this is going to speak to well, no, actually, I want to go back to the early part of this, which is you were lucky enough to have a mother that instilled what she did in you with, you know, that positive reinforcement. I think if when I listen to other people talk who had struggles creating the life that they would ultimately wanted, it seems that we trace a lot of that. Back to how you were brought up and what was said to you by your parents. That's the ultimate it seems to be the ultimate catalyst of what you end up becoming. And the people that had an incredible reinforcement and, you know, go ahead, make mistakes, whatever. Follow your dream, follow what you love. All of that stuff. They end up becoming these incredible people and the ones that didn't have that struggle through ridding that from their brains and flushing all of that garbage out and then having to kind of rebuild themselves at a at a, you know, somewhere in the middle, at an older age. And then eventually the hope is that that that   Patrick: Yes,   Joe: Leaves them so   Patrick: Yes and no,   Joe: Ok.   Patrick: Right? So for me, one hundred percent, yes. My mother my mother gave me the foundation. The schemata and the foundation, both the both the sort of the loving, the loving, positive self reinforcement of positive self-esteem. Combined with really great directives, I mean, she was my first Joseph Campbell, right? He   Joe: Hmm   Patrick: Said, follow your   Joe: Hmm,   Patrick: Bliss. And   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: She said, do what you love. But when you when you counter correctly and you don't want to add something to it, when you say, well, and then what if you got negative messages from your parents? Well, you know, that's Howard Stern and that's Bono and that's Oprah. So what I know is the difference between, though, is that because I'm really fascinated with how Howard, this conversation Howard Stern and Bono had once both sharing that. So it seems like if you if you got no love speaking for men specifically, you got no love from your if you're trying to somehow live up to a father that beat you down, seems like tremendous successes often created. But then you have to reckon with why you created it, what foundation it was created upon emotional, psychological foundation. It was created on some point. I think there's a reckoning for all of us in our childhood, you know, to say, hey, no one gets out of their childhood unscathed by the by the inadvertent or accidental mistakes of their parenting or perceived mistakes. No one gets out of that. You know, I came out of my childhood heavily damaged by my mother's suicidal nature. You know, so. I just wanted to sort of add that footnote, Joe.   Joe: Yeah, no, I and I and I look at this sometimes through my own lens, that my mother struggled, you know, her family struggled financially. Her father was an alcoholic, left them her mother had to, you know, take care of them all. And so when she when she was raising us, it was always a very cautious sort of raising. It's like, you know, do something that that makes a living. You know, you get health insurance like a very sort of secure, protective sort of thing. And I think that in my own brain caused me to not necessarily do all that I thought I could do, because I just always felt this this limitation of, you know, you shouldn't do that, you know? And I was pursuing a music career. So I you know, that's very, very hard career path like acting and other things like that. Right. And so so when I when I think about this and we have this conversation, my father was very much would push me to say, go, do you know, do that. But it would be more quiet like my mother took care of us. Right. He was working. So she got the say. And it was like, you can't you just can't go do something like that. You have to take the safer route.   Patrick: Now,   Joe: Right.   Patrick: That's   Joe: So.   Patrick: That's impactful, right,   Joe: Right.   Patrick: That that's your first introduction to the rule book for how to proceed   Joe: Yep.   Patrick: In your life, and you were given the one that said proceed with caution.   Joe: Correct.   Patrick: Boy, that I mean, yeah, I was given the opposite rule book.   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: I really was I was given a very different rulebook, and it that matters, doesn't it?   Joe: Yeah, totally,   Patrick: It matters   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: Until it doesn't matter, as Secretary says, about suffering. Suffering matters and is helpful until it doesn't matter and it's no longer helpful,   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: Right? So as soon as we wake up to oh shit, that's the rule book I had. Now we're free to grab a different one off the   Joe: Yeah,   Patrick: Shelf.   Joe: Yeah, and it's just whatever that triggers that, you know, and whether that's, you know, reading different things and being around people that, you know, like yourself, that create this this aura of like, no, this there's another way. You know, it's just it's this is one life. Go do it.   Patrick: Right.   Joe: You know, one's around anymore to tell you what to do, especially people that are older. Right. Is just   Patrick: Yeah,   Joe: Go.   Patrick: And there's no safety in playing it safe.   Joe: Right.   Patrick: It would be the rulebook, no safety in playing   Joe: That's   Patrick: It safe. That's   Joe: Hey,   Patrick: The greatest   Joe: That's   Patrick: Risk of all.   Joe: That could be the next title of your next book.   Patrick: Yeah.   Joe: All right, before we get to all that other stuff, so then the next thing that you talked about was the speaking part of it. And I know there's so many people out there and and, you know, they'll definitely be people in my audience that listen to this and and eventually watch the YouTube version of this that look there. They would love to do that sort of thing. And and it's hard to get someone that has had such great success at it like you to where I have you one on one at this moment, say, well, how did you do that? What was the first step? And then what was the part that finally went to something much bigger? And then where you are now, where, you know, the audiences are huge, you're speaking fees. You know, they could be I don't know   Patrick: They're   Joe: What they   Patrick: Big,   Joe: Are, but they're big,   Patrick: They're   Joe: So.   Patrick: Big,   Joe: Right. So   Patrick: Joyfully big.   Joe: Good. So what was the first how did you get into it?   Patrick: So let's I'm going to go fast and I'm going to speak to two different directions, because I heard you very specifically. First, I'm going to go fast on how I got into it. But   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: Second, I'm going to couple that, if you don't mind, with what I would do today if I was starving,   Joe: Perfect.   Patrick: Because there are different worlds.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: But what they both have in common is the psychology that's necessary. OK, so let me address the psychology last year, OK? What I did is it twenty six years old, I naively said naively and powerfully, impotently said I want to be a speaker, so I want to be paid at it. So how do I get a paid speaking engagement? And it didn't take much looking to say I have to tell people I'm a paid speaker. So I made I bought a mailing list of every college in the United States, half of half of all colleges in the United States of America, those that were part of an association looking for all kinds of talent. And and then I made an ugly ass flyer and I licked and stamped one thousand two hundred and fifty envelopes and I put them all in the mailbox. And and then I and then I waited for the incoming interest, interested prospects, and I cold called and and failed 40 incoming prospective cold calls, a failed 40 out of 40 of them. And then the universe's magic that is always present will always show up, kicked in. And another lead came in and I followed it up. And after four months of failed, failed calls, I got a yes from black out Black Hawk. Technical college in Wausau, Wisconsin, for one thousand two hundred dollars, total airfare included,   Joe: Wow.   Patrick: And I was off and running.   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: You know, so you can hear both, but you can hear them, you know, the challenge of it and the mechanics of how simple. I somehow intuited. The path to be and I see people overcomplicate marketing all the time, especially in today's world where marketing super sophisticated and you know your call, it looks like you have to be you have a billion followers and all this stuff and none of it's it's rarely ever true.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: So anyhow, if but but I was launching myself as a speaker in 1992 when if you wanted to have a voice in the world and you wanted to be paid for it, there was, you know, a keynote speaking. Was it? You know, I was looking up to the Tom Peters of the world   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: Who are being paid 50000 dollars in and they were like, oh, Jesus, Tom Peters has a job where he gets up in front of people. They pay him to give his opinion and his advice. Jesus, I wanted that so badly. I wanted that so freaking bad. So I went after very directly who would pay me to speak to them and give them advice? Who could I command their attention of and be 100 percent confident? I can tell you something that's beneficial.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: In Wisconsin, as I said, oh, I know what to say to college students because I was there just three years ago and they're not getting the truth about what it takes to to to grab that job you're passionate about and go for it. So and therein lies the the deep psychology of what it takes. It's it's answering a tug on your sleeve from your soul that says you have something to say, you want this and you've and you've got something to say. But the hardest choice. The first three steps are the hardest one is to recognize you got a tug on your sleeve. Your soul is saying, that would be incredible and something is there for us. I believe in that more than I believe in anything in the world. Something in Steven Jobs said it's something inside you intuitively knows what you already want to be. Something inside me intuitively knew I wanted to be on stages, inspiring people, uplifting people to answer that call is difficult. It's hard as hell, only the most courageous. No, only those who find them. Their moment of courage will do it. So you don't there's no such thing as being courageous, there's just being courageous in the right moments. So once you answer that, then the second giant hurdle you got to get over, even in today's world, is what's my message? Because the number one thing, the Powers's speaking career is confidence.   Patrick: That you deserve to be on that stage. And it's hard it's hard to find if you don't know where to look. And so that confidence has to be built on who can I confidently be certain I could make a difference with because of what I know and I've experienced and I've overcome. Twenty six years old, I could not have built a successful speaking career speaking to corporate audiences. Why? I had fantasies about it because Tom Peters was the guy I was looking up to, but I could not find. A firm grant firm ground to stand on, say, I can walk into a corporate audience and tell them what's up. At twenty six now, I haven't worked at a corporation. So so the deepest the second deepest question, the answer for yourself is who come on, just tell me who in front of you. Who do I put in front of you that you go, Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I can do this. And when you nail that boy, you're like nuclear powered. Now all you've got to do is say, great, how do I tell them I'm available for hire? How do I tell the right people I'm available for hire? But so far in today's world, though, so here's the nuance in today's world, though, Joe, I wouldn't start a keynote speaking career in today's world if I was if I was saying I want to be a speaker,   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: Because now social media exists because a messenger, I'm a messenger and a messenger. And that just means you got the messages you want to share. So so the messenger and me saw. Oh, well, in 1992, that was stages. If you were the keynote speaker in 2000 and 2001, it's every day on social media.   Joe: Right.   Patrick: And that's where so anybody that, quote, wanted to be a speaker said, no, no, you don't want to be a speaker, you want to be a messenger, constantly sharing your messages and often getting invited to stages in stages. Now look like Zoom's. They look like webinars. They look like 20 minute Ted Ted talks.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: They look like anywhere where you are the authority getting to share your message.   Joe: So let me ask you this, I don't mean to interrupt, but I want to know why, when you first did that speaking when you started on this path, what made you think only three years out of college that you had something to then go back and teach the college kids? What light bulb went off and said, I can go back and explain to them that I'm doing what I love?   Patrick: None of none of my peers, I looked around and none of my peers, all of them that were smarter than me, all of them had better grades than me, even my peers that went to better schools than me, UC Berkeley and Stanford, they all seemed to lack a fundamental understanding that I was benefiting from, which is you should do what you love. Isn't that wild?   Joe: Yeah, it's it's I mean, you're lucky   Patrick: Yeah,   Joe: It's.   Patrick: They they they all seem to have bought into the giant myth or lie or distortion that says you should do what's hot. You should do what you can get. You should do what pays you good money,   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: All of which to   Joe: Mm   Patrick: Me   Joe: Hmm.   Patrick: Look like I'm in a casino. Astonishing bullshit. Like, I think one of the greatest blessings God ever gave me was a radar that said, that's inferior bullshit.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: That's not what a great, meaningful life of purpose is built on, it's not built on what's hot on what makes money, you know, on what other people will think is cool. It's built on what your soul thirst to do.   Joe: Yeah, it's it's powerful, it's just, you know, and I just had this conversation with our our friend Chris hey, where I feel like there's I don't I don't know how to even say this, but it feels like we're fixing ourselves later in life. And I wish what you did on that first stage for that, those college kids, we could even go a little earlier in life and and, you know, talk to kids that are I don't know what the age, what the mentality is and what the age group and what they can absorb at a certain age. I don't know that scientific research that's been done, but it would be nice, you know, how sometimes a young kid will see something they'll see   Patrick: It's   Joe: On Michael   Patrick: Happening.   Joe: Jordan?   Patrick: It's   Joe: Yeah,   Patrick: Happening,   Joe: I   Patrick: You   Joe: Just   Patrick: Know.   Joe: Wish we could move it. I feel like we're all trying to fix it now   Patrick: Right,   Joe: In   Patrick: But.   Joe: Midlife where I wish we could move it earlier.   Patrick: What you know, I mean, the role models for today's kids that that are young, that are below 10, they're tremendous   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: Because I have a 12 year old son. And if you've never seen Mr. Beast in, my son loves   Joe: Oh,   Patrick: Mr.   Joe: Yeah, I   Patrick: Beast   Joe: Have   Patrick: And I love Mr. Beast. That's an that's a messenger. That's   Joe: A.   Patrick: An inspirational messenger. Who is role modeling. Hey, you can not only do what's wildly joyful and fun, but you can give your that guy understands giving it a level   Joe: Yeah,   Patrick: That I dream of learning that   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: I dream of embodying. So, you know, every jet I view this next generation as Savea as more enlightened and it's so awesome to see.   Joe: Yeah, I.   Patrick: But Mr. Resum role modeling for my son, you know, I thought I think I'm a role model for my son, that you can do what you love and have an abundant life. And Mr. Beest is better role model. You know, Mr. B gets it earlier and at a level that's in almost incomprehensible,   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: You know.   Joe: Yeah, well, OK, so you've talked about the speaking part of it, and then how about a little bit about the one man show, because that was a really interesting story to me about   Patrick: Ask me   Joe: How   Patrick: A question,   Joe: That came about.   Patrick: Would you benefit me with a question?   Joe: Well, I want to know, like what I remember the story, how you saw it on TV and a trigger, you were like, I want to do that. Like when you said, I want to create this show. And just that one night in that hotel room that triggered it all for you, just like that, you're still on stage, but it's a step in a completely different direction.   Patrick: Yeah, thank you, Joe. OK, so then let me think about. Making the super relevant for anybody listening. OK, so what's really remarkable to me is that we can be successful. So maybe someone's listening to say, I love my life. I like my life. I'm Ahmad, I'm successful, and you're just clapping along and you're saying, oh, yeah, I got this. I couldn't be happier for you, but I want to I want to tell you a true story from my life about when I felt that way, but I wasn't. But I wasn't. But there was something much bigger that was tugging at my sleeve that was very hard to acknowledge. So I was this quote, by my standards, very successful speaker all over the country, whatever. And then but. There was this secret unrealized ambition, Joe, and you haven't you haven't heard this sort thing, and the secret unrealized ambition was to be a story teller in the theater, just the only guy on stage, enthralling and entertaining an audience and making them laugh with just a personal story from my life. This and this was a dream that came to me that was inspired. It's not a dream. It's this was a. A soul calling. That I felt when I was about, oh, twenty two or twenty three years old, because it even before I became a speaker, my girlfriend took me to a theater, not a movie theater. And we watched Spalding Gray, a legendary theater performer, just tell us a story for an hour and a half from behind his desk. And I walked out of that theater, Joe, and I turned to my girlfriend in her old 1964 Rambler. And I said, thank you for bringing to me that that was amazing. And she said, Oh, yeah, he's so great, isn't he? I said, I looked her in the eyes. I said. Now, that was unbelievable,   Joe: Ok.   Patrick: I said what I would give to do that. Because I thought I just seen the best thing a human being could ever do with their life and, you know, and this woman who loved me very much and meant nothing harmful by it responded. Yeah, but you'd have to be funny. Bakersfield was super funny, and what she didn't know is, is that was like shooting an arrow accidentally right through the chink in my armor because I heard it and said, oh, yeah, what was I thinking? I just sat in there with a master. And I'm not funny and I'm not even good storyteller, so I'm just sitting here in this 1964 Rambler having myself a pipe dream. I can't do that what he just did, he made it look effortless because he's a master and so I built a speaking career, which I very, very, very much love, but I still had this secret, unrealized ambition in it. 30, what you were referring to is at 33 years old. Well, another theatre performer had come on the scene, a named John Leguizamo. And John Leguizamo was in my book was Spalding Gray Times 10. And no disrespect to Spalding Gray, the creator of the medium. But but where Spalding Gray sat behind a desk, John Leguizamo tore up use the entire stage became 18 different characters, male, female, young or old, and was 10 times funnier in my book. So he came on.   Patrick: I was there in a hotel room and he has his HBO special came on. And I've never felt worse about my. In some way about my sort of career self and, well, this really I got this horrible, horrible ache pain in my solar plexus, and it was the pain of fear, of paralysis, of envy, of self-loathing. Because what? Because it was this swirling ball of hell in my stomach that said, I love what this man is doing and I want it so bad for myself, but it's impossible for me to get to because it's it's. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough to ever do what I dream of doing. And and that was that was the that was my fear of not doing it. You know, built up for 10 years is, as we like to say in my business, Bliss Champions. Your purpose left on, attended to becomes a purpose, curse becomes a curse. And so on that hotel room bed, I felt the curse and the pain. And fortunately, I grabbed for a pad of paper and I wrote at the top, what are you so afraid of? And I started freeriding. And I wrote all these fears, you'd expect them looking bad, looking stupid, being awful, wasting my time, you know, wasting money, taking away from my really good speaking career. And then in the end, I wrote something that really surprised me. I'm afraid I won't be as great as John Leguizamo or Spalding Gray.   Patrick: And when I wrote that sentence. It like took the lid off of something super dark and evil in me, because when I saw that sentence in the light of day, I never realized that was one of my fears. It looked absurd. I laughed out loud at the absurdity of I have never told and I've never even attempted what they've done and yet. And yet the reason why I'm not going for it is because I not I might I'm comparing myself to the greatest human beings on planet Earth at this craft. And it just struck me as ridiculous, and then a voice came into my mind, a thought that I never had before, couldn't you just do it for fun? And the weight of the world was lifted off that secret, unrealized ambition, me, who's so success minded, had never thought of just doing it for the sake of fun, the pleasure of I should try that. Who cares if I fail? And that was my ginormous breakthrough on my greatest bliss ever. And so I so I started doing it for fun shortly after that. And to make a long story short, for 15 years, I toured with my one person solo show. I and this is a metric I care about, but is not why I did the show. I did the show for the love of doing the show, for   Joe: Hmm.   Patrick: The love of learning to do the show, for the love of hearing audiences laugh. But in the end, what blows my mind is a hundred thousand people bought tickets to see my show. Hundred thousand people sat in my audience for 15 years. I had a red carpet tour of the theater world and today it's being made into a Hollywood movie.   Joe: It's amazing.   Patrick: Right.   Joe: And it's incredible.   Patrick: So.   Joe: So what you said or you said, why not just do it for fun if someone's in the same spot that you are in that hotel room, when you were watching him perform on that HBO special, would you say that that's a good starting point for some people who just can't seem to to to do that thing that they so want to do as it just. Is that a good trigger? I don't know if that's the right thing,   Patrick: It   Joe: But   Patrick: Is.   Joe: Is that OK?   Patrick: In Bliss Champions, we've learned we've got a real extraordinary map for for these for these kind of we call them bliss journeys, going into speaking was a blitz journey for me. A journey to follow my bliss. Going into the theater was a journey to follow my bliss. Writing a book was a journey to follow my bliss. So we've got a really detailed map. And what's surprising is the biggest pitfall we know of on the map is the desire to monetize what's possible to use to Zoom to early. So   Joe: Interesting.   Patrick: You think of your bliss, right, and then immediately society is trained us to think, but how will you make money at that?   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: And that kills more bliss journeys. The two biggest killers of all blessed journeys is not getting started and trying to monetize to even think about monetizing too soon. So they're the antidote to monetizing too soon is forget about monetizing. Do it for fun. Do it for fun. The benefit is Joy.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: The benefit is fun fund, the benefit is aliveness, then the benefit is ball in motion, and momentum has to be included in anybody's realistic formula of great success. Momentum is one of the major ingredients of great success. So as long as you're sitting around not doing something, trying to figure out how you how you can guarantee success on it, you got no momentum. You got nothing.   Joe: Yeah, yeah, that's   Patrick: So, yeah, just do it for fun.   Joe: I love it,   Patrick: That's my mantra now, Joe, is   Joe: I love it.   Patrick: Is I don't wake up my career and figure out how to do things for money, I wake up and I figure out how to do things for joy and the money. I mean, you know, I care about money. I make good money. But the money is and is a secondary thought. It is the longest money has that rightful positioning in my life, it's secondary,   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: Like once I once I figured out what's joyful to me and I've got emotion in it, we can figure out how to monetize it. No problem. You know what we teach English champions. If you can't monetize your your most blissful activity, don't blame it on your bliss. Blame it on your on your business skills. And you don't have to blame it on your business skills, you just have to know it's not my bliss that I can't monetize. I don't have to change my bliss or forgo my bliss. I have to learn to monetize.   Joe: Yeah, it's you hit it on the head and it's a it's amazing how many people have such great talents, great ideas, great aspirations, and it's just that putting that one foot in front of the next one. And the one thing I think you hit it right on the head is just how I can make a living at that. How can I do that? And it's it's it would be so cool if people just did it for the fun of it and then the joy and what they bring to other people, all of that other stuff the universe delivers because it just realizes that's what you were meant to do. Right. It's just.   Patrick: Yeah.   Joe: Well, so you mentioned Bliss Champions, you know, throughout this conversation. And I think this is the appropriate time now to sort of clue in because, again, we're we're limited on time and I have a million things. So let's talk about this champions. So I would like to know I ran across it just because once we got off that call where you were teaching us how to tell the story, you know, tell our story and a very creative way, I then was doing all my own research and I said, who is this guy? Man, I love the way he talks. And I can tell that there's just something about him in his soul that's on fire. And I want to know more about it. And then it took me to Blessed Champion. So I'd like for you to explain to the audience what this champion is, what it does, what you know, how, and then we'll put in the show links all of the other stuff to get in touch with you. But I you know, to explain what it what its purpose is would be awesome.   Patrick: Ok, well, I'll give you I'll give you us a scoop, Joe Torre, I don't know when you're going to publish this. I actually should ask you, when are you going to publish this? Probably.   Joe: I can do it whenever.   Patrick: Ok, well, you   Joe: I do   Patrick: Know.   Joe: What a week, normally I can postpone this, I can I can   Patrick: Ok, well, look, in   Joe: Do   Patrick: About   Joe: It tomorrow.   Patrick: In about one in about one week, two weeks tops, we're going to announce our brand new book   Joe: Ok.   Patrick: And I'm so excited about it. It is the conversation we're having. So I'm going to tell you the first person I'm going to tell, it's called "Purpose Code", How to "Unlock Your Purpose", maximize your joy, astound yourself and if someone says, oh, jeez, I am interested in this free report we made about it, which is the 10 reasons why people don't unlock their purpose and go to purposecode.com. So no one knows that website exists yet. So.   Joe: Ok.   Patrick: So but they're going to find out first through going to purposecode.com.   Joe: I love   Patrick: So   Joe: It.   Patrick: Bliss Champions. Bliss Champions, so the surprising thing, Joe, is in, you tell me how much you've seen as I can't believe how much I've seen, it's shocking to me is how many successful business owners there are. Who are lacking joy. These are people I'm telling you, like Mega Millions dream home, not one dream car in the driveway, as many as they desire looked up to by all their peers and all their employees. Happy that they built the business, happy they overcame all this stuff and made it to the top, but their deepest secret. Is something's missing. And so my business partner was one of those guys, you know, he cashed out for 50 million bucks. And still, something was missing. So his story is quite remarkable. He's not here, so we won't tell it, but but. As you saw, so he both knew it through personal experience and sitting in on groups like on the IS. Know, as the entrepreneurs organization, you got to be a successful entrepreneur to qualify to get in. Well, one of the first things that my business partner saw up close and personal through that organizations, wow, so many people here have secret unrealized ambitions that they're not going for because somehow they're successful business.   Patrick: Has it been a little bit of a bind? And somehow along the way, while they were flexing their entrepreneurial muscles. They their their muscles for joy and bliss atrophied or were never developed, and so we both inherently understood how much impact if you can shift a person at the top of an organization to be joyful, they will spread. They will spread that message through the entire organization. Leaders that lead from Joy and that follow their bliss want everybody to follow their bliss and maximize their joy. That is the you can't be living joyfully and blissfully, truly without wanting to spread joy and bliss. It's impossible. Love, it's impossible for love to not desire to spread love. So. So. Bliss Champions is our remedy, it's we're four years into into seeking out and accepting individuals who who are successful but know something is missing. They don't know how to figure out what what is missing in what would be in their lexicon, a smart move, because they're used to everything being, quote, smart, right. What would be a good, smart, legitimate move that would bring them more joy? And we're experts at that. We help them unlock their purpose, because once you know exactly what your purpose is and you can put it in words, you have a true north and you not now you don't make missteps.   Patrick: And then but once you unlock your purpose, then then the great opportunity is to feel great, you know what your purpose is, what bliss journey should you take up? And there's a lot of choices. So you have to have good decision making structure. So we call ourselves Bliss Sherpa's because we've been up and down the on our own bliss journeys through our whole lives. That's that's been the blessing of our lives. We know the territory. We know the mistakes. We know the pitfalls. We know where where people quit and why they quit. So we Sherpa people up on blissful journeys and all of our secrets to doing that, that we've you know, I've been on I've been Sherpa and I've been a Sherpa for people following their passion and living their dreams and following their bliss for twenty five years. And Eric has been doing it for an equal amount of time as a CEO of large organizations. So this is why I'm so thrilled that we wrote a book together on it and the book's called "Purpose Code". And all of our secrets are in that book.   Joe: That's great, it is was there some momentous occasion that how are you and Eric connected?   Patrick: Yeah, Eric cashed out for millions of dollars, and he and the day after he cashed out and he went to lay in by his pool, just view overlooking his wine estate. He was rushed to the hospital and almost died from   Joe: Uh.   Patrick: Poor health while he was laying in that hospital bed contemplating his mortality. He realized I didn't finish the job of my purpose. And he knew that Eric's always known I've known Eric twenty five years, Eric has always known his purpose is to help other people, is to help is to inspire himself to live joyfully and to take that inspiration and spread it to other people. This is the thing about purpose. Here's a lesson and purpose. Your purpose is, first and foremost, what selfishly brings you joy. And you can't support your purpose if you're looking for if you're looking outside of yourself for where to save the world, you will you'll you won't see it when you say, look, it's just selfish. Something inside me always, you know, is always finds joy when I'm in this direction, when I'm doing this kind of activity, I'm my best self. Once you identify where your best self, what you'll see is then that when you give yourself that gift, you automatically give it to others and desire to give it to others. And that's where your purpose becomes a service to the world. So so, Eric, figure it out, man, you know, I I've always been living my purpose, but I slipped off track. While I was going on flexing his entrepreneurial muscles and going on this incredible monetary tear.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: And so he got out of the hospital, began working on his health and called me up and said, let's start list champions. There's a there's a he said there's you know, the one thing you and I have always been united on is wanting to help people follow their bliss.   Joe: Now, that's really crazy. That's.   Patrick: And the reason why I said yes is because I had hidden from my bliss for 10 years in in fear, right, my secret ambition seemed   Joe: Yeah.   Patrick: Impossible. And so I knew the cost of doing that. I knew the falsehood of doing that. And I and I knew that I knew the tremendous pressures that await anybody on the other side of finally finding the wherewithal to   Joe: But.   Patrick: Do it. And so, as I said, once you've experienced that kind of joy and bliss and truth, you want to share it with others. You want to say, like, I'll show you where your greatest life is and society just doesn't it just doesn't have enough messages. You know, it's societies has too many messages about smart, about practical, about money, about status. And all that stuff comes with following your bliss. But it can't be it can't be the deciding factors or you won't know where your bliss is calling you to.   Joe: Yeah, it's like we have it backwards, it's like the cart before the horse, right. And if we can just flip it, it's everything just sort of opens up and through Bliss Champions, you help people to work through this. And then ultimately the goal would be is is it a week long?   Patrick: It's a six it's a six month program.   Joe: Six month program, so.   Patrick: Yes, it's a month program, people apply to get in.   Joe: A.   Patrick: We we we work with seven people at a time, cohorts of super small seven. So it's super individual. And and then it culminates after six months of coaching and masterminding, it culminates in our super, super specialty. We take you to Bliss Island, which is in Hawaii where we own the property and we run an extraordinary five day retreat to try to really launch our our participants and into their bliss.   Joe: Yeah, it's incredible. I   Patrick: It's   Joe: Love   Patrick: Fun,   Joe: It.   Patrick: It's   Joe: You   Patrick: Super   Joe: Know you   Patrick: Fun.   Joe: Know that I love it. I just   Patrick: Yeah.   Joe: One of these days I'm going to be a blessed champion and I'll have to figure that out. But sooner than later,   Patrick: Now, we've   Joe: I'm   Patrick: Launched   Joe: Not.   Patrick: We launched Authors', we've launched we've taken people that that thought this isn't a this isn't worth a book. And now they're published on the best publishers on Earth and they've got a multi thing deal with one guy has only he said his bliss was motorcycle's writing Harlesden. He thought, what can I do with that, that you can't monetize that? And and now he has one of the only dealership licenses in the country to rent Harley's and take people on Harley tours, Harley Bike Tours.   Joe: Mm   Patrick: He   Joe: Hmm.   Patrick: Has his own Harley bike tour dealership. We've taken CEOs who had giant companies but weren't happy and now they're super joyful, super happy. Their marriages are better. And they're and in addition to running their company, they're joyfully doing this thing they always dreamed of doing. They're they're more amplified, express self. So our stories sound like that, you know.   Joe: Yeah, that's great. So how can someone find out about this champions and how do they go about doing what they need to to become a part of that program?   Patrick: Well, let's I'm going to answer that really quickly and then let's go to a different territory, if   Joe: Ok.   Patrick: You don't mind, OK, because I don't want someone listening to this. I'm looking at the clock here and I think that we have about 12 minutes. And I   Joe: I   Patrick: Like   Joe: Just   Patrick: To maximum   Joe: Want to I think   Patrick: My.   Joe: It's amazing. I wanted to   Patrick: Thanks.   Joe: Give it its time because I   Patrick: Well,   Joe: Think   Patrick: Everybody   Joe: It's, you know.   Patrick: Everybody should start "Purpose Code", because the biggest value that they can get right away is truly to read this report that I wrote. And it's called "The Ten Things That Stop People From Unlocking Their Purpose". You got to know, how come I don't know my purpose? What am I missing here? So go to purposecode.com and just grab that free report.   Joe: Perfect.   Patrick: And then and then it'll it'll lead you to learning about Bliss Champions. It's an application process. I would love people to apply. It's free to apply, you know, and then we individually interview you get to know you and and we have all kinds of ways to serve. And   Joe: Perfect.   Patrick: You can get the book in your hands.   Joe: Ok,   Patrick: But   Joe: Cool.   Patrick: But let's let's let's see how many more how much more insider. Something super helpful we can pack into the last ten minutes here.   Joe: Perfect. So I have something that I totally wanted to ask you that if you can put it in an understandable layman's terms where it doesn't come across as being overly spiritual and fufu. But you talk about being present in so many people these days are talking about that. But I love watching your talks. When you you know, you're out doors taking a walk and you have your phone and you talk about it. But how do you put it in and like everyday   Patrick: Layman's   Joe: Terms   Patrick: Terms,   Joe: For it? Yeah,   Patrick: Yeah,   Joe: Because, you   Patrick: Yeah.   Joe: Know, everybody looks at and go, wait a second, you want me to sit in silence for ten minutes, meditate, or you want me   Patrick: I   Joe: To   Patrick: Don't write.   Joe: All of those things to pull yourself back in, to be centered, to have, you know, hold space for yourself, all these things. And it's just so hard these days. We're getting bombarded from all sides. So because of you and how you can communicate these things, I want to know from you what being president means and how someone could practice it on a daily basis   Patrick: Ok.   Joe: Where it's not this.   Patrick: You're   Joe: This.   Patrick: Making me. You're making me super happy because now you're bringing up my next favorite subject.   Joe: Perfect.   Patrick: So   Joe: Awesome.   Patrick: So I. I am both deeply spiritual about this, but but there's no need to talk about it in that way because I didn't approach it that way. I just approached it from man, I need I need a different way to do my life. And I found that different way to do my life. And it was the most revolutionary, impactful, beneficial thing I've ever learned or done in my life. And so you'll see me spend the majority of the rest of my life has boiled down to two two things. Two things on one hand, follow your bliss. And we've been talking about why, why, because it's your bliss, it will bring you bliss and, you know, as we say in Bliss Champions sometimes. Is there something better than BLIS because BLIS means perfect happiness? So what are you looking for if you're not looking for perfect happiness? So but in follow your bliss, there's a doing this to it, right? It's it's OK. We don't similar, but there is another path to bliss. And so I have a right hand and a left hand strategy to life in my right hand because I love having a career. I love to have something to do every day. I love making, you know, while having a career. I follow my bliss and in my left hand, I, I. Nowhere Bliss's without doing anything, I know how to find BLIS every single day of my life, no matter.   Patrick: What happens, no matter the circumstances, no matter the hardships, no matter the challenges, I know where bliss is, even in storms. So my career could not be going well, but in my left hand, I still know where Joy is every single day and how to get there in a concrete fashion. So that to me, my this left hand strategy I'm talking about that you brought up that I call a presence practice. That's where it sits in my life. So. Let's see, it's a good window into this. I'm taking a little quiet space for it to find me. Why would someone want to practice presence? Because what I didn't know I was well into my 40s, Joe, and I had never once wielded the word ego. And and up until the point when I got a new definition and it became very meaningful to me, Igoe to me meant don't be egotistical. It meant, oh, or you have a healthy ego. It takes a healthy ego. That's all I thought of ego when I was in. And then, to be honest with you, I hit a rock bottom in my life sometime in my 40s, my ego, the my shadow self, my bad behavior, the worst of me. The worst of me put me in a position where I were where I was at my rock bottom, and I thought to myself, there's got to be a better way.   Patrick: And I reached for there had been a book sitting on my cell for a long time that I had no interest in. It was called.    "The Power of Now", Eckard Tolle. And I grabbed this book and it re educated me and it re informed me and it completely transformed my life. The book didn't transform my life as much as my adherence to what the book said for the next seven years on a daily basis transformed my life. It did it very quickly, but I was so in love with what I was discovering that that I just kept being a diligent student of what Eckhart Tolle calls presence. OK, so in a very short amount of time, here's what I would love somebody to experiment with on this call that is non-spiritual. The only thing that is ever causing you a bad feeling. Is your thoughts? Now, so I had to wrap my mind around that first experiment with that, because I used to believe, no, I'm having a bad feeling because this shitty thing happened. And I was positive that was true. Until I wasn't until I began to say, wait a minute, is there a buffer in me that's causing the pain, not the situation, this is easily answered, but you should but everybody should try it on. That's life changing, because what if situations and bad circumstances are not causing you bad feelings? What if it's what you think about those bad circumstances, how often you think about those bad circumstances that are causing you a bad feeling? OK, for instance.   Patrick: I want to talk about the pandemic and then I'll talk about the pandemic, for instance, the day that it's announced that we're going to be in quarantine for however long, an indeterminate amount and 20, 20 people in the world had multiple possibilities for a thought about it. Somebody sitting in their home could have taken that news and began thinking all kinds of really bad thoughts that, hey, are well justified. I'm not here to argue with the with the with whether that thought is justified. But somebody could have been sitting there thinking, this is awful. I might lose my job. I like going outside now. I can't going outside. What are the implications of not going outside? What if I'm in my house forever? What if I get covid-19? What if my friends get covered and I die? What if they never leave? The governor is terrible. The president is terrible. The vaccine is terrible. Was it made in the lab? Those thoughts are causing in a bad and negative emotions in the body. And what if and some people thought those every hour of every day. Not not by choice, but by by habituated pattern of their mind, getting to think without ever being safety, without ever any but any other force saying hold on.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Patrick: Do we want to think like this 24/7? Is it serving us? OK, but equally to lots of people did that. So lots of people had horrible emotions. And I'm not saying don't do that, I'm just saying be aware that's why you had horrible emotions. What didn't happen is the pandemic is the the announcement the pandemic did not reach into anybody's body invisibly and say you now feel bad. Outside circumstances cannot reach in your body and and flip switches and say you feel bad. They cannot be the cause. If only a fox can be the cause, equally so and wildly true, unbeknownst to me just six years ago, but now perfectly known to me and the most exciting thing I've ever learned is some people heard the news of the pandemic. And fought and fought like this. Oh. We're going to go into quarantine. Now with to wash the dishes. And didn't have further thoughts about it until there was more news or until those thoughts were necessary. And didn't feel negative emotions, or if they did feel the negative emotions, only felt them for as long as that emotion lasted, while it wasn't being sustained by unchecked, unreasonable, insane, incessant thinking. So a president's practice is simply, well, on one hand, a presence practices the deep recognition that circum negative circumstance circumstances don't cause you upset your thoughts about them do and your ego. Ego should be defined as when when you're not thinking your thoughts, they're thinking you. And you don't even know it. So I learned to not be the crazy guy, the insane guy who is washing dishes, who is physically washing dishes, but who mentally in my mind for 15, 20, 30 minutes is having an imaginary argument that I'm winning with somebody else.   Patrick: I learned to not be that guy, I learned that I that I was concerned that we're all constantly that guy. And that you don't have to be that you can wash dishes while you wash dishes. And that if you do so, here's what I promise you, because I know from experience, if you learn to quiet, to say presence means I'm not going to be in the future, I'm not going to be in hallucinatory future scenarios. I'm not going to let my mind run off to hallucinatory past scenarios. I'm not going to hallucinate about the future. I'm not going to hallucinate about the past because those can only be hallucinations or call them imaginations. You cannot make the future real. You cannot make the past real. The only real is ever. But you can find through your five senses. So presidents practice means live in the real more often. Want to think about something, think about what you're doing. Be what you're doing. Washing dishes, wash the dishes. If you're working on your book, work on your book, if you're talking to another person, talk to another person. If you're watching the birds in your yard, watch the birds in your yard. So here's the let me give this for me, the big wild finish, first of all, if that's all I ever knew and I figured out how to do that six years ago without any other further teachings, I would be right where I am today.   Patrick: I and these are not light sentences to me, these are the greatest revelations of my life piece. A profound sense of constant peace, a profound sense of joy for no reason and a loving feeling. You know, that filled what I used to have this black hole of, gee, I wish I could get more love. And now I have a fountain of love that just comes from inside me for no reason, peace, love and joy for no reason are what automatically and guaranteed come from being present doesn't require meditation. It requires noticing that your thoughts are running rampantly out of your control and you can distance yourself from them. And then once you distance yourself from them, you can I I like to call them the roommate, you can notice your thoughts are not you? They are a crazy roommate that's always stirring up shit in your head and never stops talking. And you are not that roommate. And you can move that roommate to the garage in the day you move. And it doesn't happen in a day the more you put that roommate in the garage. One hundred percent, peace, joy, love, for no reason other than you moved your roommate to the garage and. Miracles will begin manifesting in your life. For some reason, the entire universe is more capable then of coming to support your happiness.   Joe: It's incredible. I just I can sit and talk with you all day, and we've already gone over our man. I could just I literally could sit here and then do this. So before we leave this one subject, I think it's important. Is there is there any sort of when you talk about the practice, is there any little tidbit of how someone can do that in the simplest way? Because I think everyone gets bogged down with all of the things that are just, you know, for example, we talk about meditation. Is this hard? I mean, I used to get up every day that I made it a promise that I wouldn't do anything until I just put my headphones on, put the app on on my iPhone, turn. Everything else also wouldn't be interrupted and just did it. And I felt like that was my most productive. Let's say it was a year that I did it straight. I haven't done it in so long. I feel like I got to get back to it. I can do it like I don't mind meditating. But first there are people that will never do that. So what is of super   Patrick: I'm   Joe: Super   Patrick: One of those   Joe: Simple.   Patrick: People that doesn't matter to me.   Joe: Ok,   Patrick: I was one of those people that will never meditate,   Joe: Ok.   Patrick: And I'm really happy to say that that both are fantastic choices, whichever you feel called to clearly. And they both lead to the same way. But if someone if if in some crazy really hypothetical, I can tell when I'm saying something stupid, I'm saying something stupid. But in some crazy, stupid hypothetical situation, it's a pattern. You have to choose one for the world meditation or presence practice. I would say we got to go with presence practice. It's easier. OK, so, yes, I have two things that are really simple and super practical and bless you for asking Joe the number one thing and and wildly enough this what I'm about to say is the prescription and the advice of seemingly every great. Teacher, you know, on the planet, that's that is spiritual and it's it's to be conscious of of one single breath. So at any point in time you go, Oh, I want to do it. I want to try this president's practice. You would simply take a one breath and be aware of that of your breathing for one breath. And your awareness, you can shift around, you just say, look, my job is to be aware that I'm having this breath so that for you that might mean, oh, I'm going to focus on the feeling of the air. Coming into my body and exhaling from my body. Or you might say, I'm going to become aware of the feeling of my body expanding and contracting, or you might you're awareness might say I'm going to be aware of the sound of my breath. Doesn't matter one conscious breath because it is impossible to be conscious of your breathing and think a thought at the same time. But conscious breath is both a great it's a great present to practice because it will be difficult for most people at the beginning of their journey to complete one conscious breath without becoming aware. Fuck, I   Joe: No,   Patrick: Started   Joe: That's right.   Patrick: Thinking. I started thinking during I, my mind got off the leash and started thinking something halfway into that breath. And so that's the great teacher one because that's OK. That's a president's practice of presidents. Practice isn't isn't stopping all thoughts. It's becoming aware. Are of the thoughts of the roommate. It's becoming you're you're you're winning when you go to the roommate came in and started talking shit while I was trying to take a breath. So that's called a wake, that's a state of a weakness that in as long as you're awake to your thoughts, peace, love, joy and miracles will begin pouring into your life. Mark my words. So but as you will practice that, too, you can take a conscious breath without thinking on most given days. Wonderful. OK, the second practice, right, is that built my life on this. Is. Step number one, notice when you're feeling anything that's bad. The only thing this doesn't apply to is physical pain. OK, so I want disabled people to eliminate physical pain. It can be applied to physical plant pain, but let's just say that's an advanced course. OK, but the step number one, the most important step is to notice, oh, I'm feeling upset in any way. And there should only be one word. It would be helpful if if people change and said there's only one word now we're going to throw out all these different various words hate, depression, loneliness, sadness, grief, worry, overwhelm, stress, anxiety, who cares? Fear.   Patrick: They all deserve really one word. Suffering. They're all a form of suffering, so notice the next time that you're suffering a negative emotion. Boom. Now there's a great opportunity for step number two, OK? And usually when you notice this, what's fascinating is you'll have been feeling it for a long time. That's how long it takes for awareness to come in and say, well, I'm feeling something bad here, but I did this very for at least a year and I got to choose my life. So first, I know I have a bad feeling. Step number two is built on the awareness we already learned. Every bad feeling began with a thought that was against something happening. Every bad feeling is caused by a thought that always follows the same structure. This shouldn't be happening to me. This shouldn't be happening. OK, so when you have a bad feeling, like you're like a person trying to defuse a bomb before it really blows up, and so you trace the wires knowing at the other end of the wire there will be a fire. You had a thought at the other end of those wires that was something about you thought it shouldn't be happening. Let me give you some examples. He or she should have spoken to me like that. I should have gotten that job. I shouldn't have gotten that. There should be more money in my bank account. There should be a different president there. There. That guy shouldn't be president.   Patrick: That shouldn't have happened through my television screen. I shouldn't be in this condition. I shouldn't have that ailment. I shouldn't have this pressure. I shouldn't have been raised that way. I shouldn't. So all you're doing is tracing those wires to what did I think shouldn't be? As it is. That was the source of your pain. Now, once you have that, the third step is to take that shouldn't it shouldn't have. And. See if you can find any part of yourself and you always can. It's harder at first that says. I can allow that it. That it is that way and you're why your justification, why can you allow that it is that way can always be. Sanity because. It is. That way. And as soon as you accomplish any ability to allow that, what you are against, to just allow that, it is it's even if it's temporary allowance, it's not saying I'm OK with that person being president forever. It's not an allowance of forever. It's I'm OK. I can allow that. That person is president. Currently, because they are. So you just looking for this momentary allowance of what all spiritual teachers say of what is to be against and I love it when they point out to be against what is is insanity. Because. I'm against that this can exist really, because it exists. Could you allow that it exists? I can allow that exist, why? Because it does exist, right?   Joe: So, so far   Patrick: Right   Joe: Of.   Patrick: Now, it's not a total acceptance of and I and I can I'm and I'm allowing that these cans will exist for forever. It's not saying that. Can you allow that exist right now? At first, you'll hear your ego go, no, I hate that can. But can you allow that it exists right now is anything. Yeah, why does it exist right now? And   Joe: The.   Patrick: And all all the it shouldn't exist or they shouldn't exist. It shouldn't exist. You can do that for 12 years. Twenty four, seven years can will still exist.   Joe: It's just.   Patrick: So if you can allow that, it exists. You have accomplished. A presence practice, because presence will what will happen next will always happen, you will feel better and you'll notice how I feel. I'm returning to peace. And once you accomplish returning to peace, you'll notice or I just feel in general more love, and then after a while you'll notice, someday you'll take a measure of your life, you'll say, is my lecture. If I say my life's joyful all the time everywhere. Why? Because you moved your roommate, your ego to the ground.   Joe: Oh, it's awesome.   Patrick: Now, there's a fourth final step to that, and I think of it as advanced, but so sometimes it's hard and sometimes it's easy, but it's super fun. The fourth step, the third step was, can you allow that? Something is what it is. And the fourth possibility is can you embrace. That it is what it is. Is there anything in you that could embrace that could say not only can I allow the can is there, but I can embrace that the can is there and you can see why that's a harder step because something you were previously just totally against, could you embrace it? Now, it's a that's a different sort of class, it's not complicated, but it takes more words, my journey towards learning to embrace things I was previously against. But I'll tell you, like some of the greatest revelations of your life come when you learn to embrace everything. Everything's.   Joe: It's really powerful, man

Is Parasite Bong Joon-ho's first good movie? Is that question just clickbait? All this and more on this episode of Talkie Talk where we look at Steve McQueen's 12 Years a Slave (2013), an Academy Award Best Picture winner, and the aforementioned Bong Joon-ho's psychological thriller Mother (2009). For next week, we are watching two documentaries: Peter Jackson's colorized WW1 documentary They Shall Not Grow Old (2018) and Steven Soderbergh's documentary about the renowned monologuist Spalding Gray, And Everything is Going Fine (2010).

TRANSCRIPT:This is Changing the Rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.KC Dempster  0:13  Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. This is KC Dempster. And I'm here with my co host Ray Loewe. And we have a wonderful show ahead for you. We are broadcasting from Wildfire Podcast Studios. And it's a beautiful day in Woodbury, New Jersey.Ray Loewe  0:32  You know, one comment that I make frequently, but we've been doing podcasts now for a little over a year, and we have no idea what we're doing. And and the advantages we don't have to know because we have Taylor, and we have Wildfire, and they lead us through this thing. And all we have to do is get great guests. And then our guests lead us to wonderful podcasts. It make it sound so easy.KC Dempster  0:55  Why do I get so stressed?Ray Loewe  0:57  It is? Well, Rebecca Hoffman, who's our guest today was on once before last year, yes, she very definitely is one of the luckiest people in the world. And we so acknowledge that with a mug. Okay, yes. She's been mugged. And, Rebecca, thank you so much for being with us. And let's start because I want to get some semblance of your creativity on the line before we get into substance here. So the name of your company isRebecca Hoffman  1:29  Good Egg Concepts.Ray Loewe  1:30  Where the heck did that come from?Rebecca Hoffman  1:33  Well, it's funny, you should ask that. Because I was for some reason thinking about that. This morning. The notion of a good egg came up years before I even had a business. And I was living in Miami and we would receive our email was through the county. And it was like a computer code email address, which was impossible to remember. And you could check your email at the library or at the University where I worked. So I have this sort of difficult email address. And then at some point, somebody said to me, You can make your own email address on something called Yahoo. And so I became the good egg@yahoo.com because I turned to my friend and I said, Well, how do you make an email name? Like, how do you do that? And this was probably in the mid 90s. And they said, well, you're a good egg, just be the good egg@yahoo.com. wonders, things happened, don't that, you know, well and 30 years later, I still have this name hanging around, which is kind of funny, but I guess that's the power of a name.Ray Loewe  2:33  Yeah. And and Rebecca, by the way, has her own marketing consulting practice. And she's kind of a branding expert. And you can see she's got the good egg. But she did some wonderful things for me. Yes, a long ago, while maybe it's not that long ago, and I am better through a friend of mine. And I was in Chicago on a business trip. And we met and I think we met in the lobby of the Marriott Hotel, in downtown there. Pardon? Yep. Yep. And, and we started talking, and we were talking about a trip I had just completed, I just gotten back from Africa. And I was telling all these wonderful stories, and all of a sudden, Rebecca says, "You know, you have to, you have to structure these a little bit. You have to can them because they're wonderful parables. And they have morals to them. And if you tell them and create them the right way people will remember them." And yes, Rebecca, that was true. That was a that was a defining moment. Thank you very much.C Dempster  3:37  Right. And we've been, we've been calling re Aesop for his fables ever since then.Ray Loewe  3:42  Well, you know, and, and one of the stories and I'm not going to tell the story, but but it's about penguins in Antarctica, because we expanded this from Africa. And, and people come up, and they just say, remember the penguins, you know, and, and, and it's all there. So one of the things that we want to talk today about is the power of storytelling, and why we should all use this more, whether it's in business or personal life, and whether you're trying to build relationships with your grandchildren, or your grandparents, or whatever it is. So Rebecca, tell us a little bit about storytelling and where you position this in your life and your business.Rebecca Hoffman  4:26  So storytelling, plays a big role in my life, both personally and professionally, and it always has. And I think one of the things I've always marked in my life is that I like a story well told, in a book and a movie, in a poem in something that someone is telling me. When I get together with my friends, I always say "what's new Tell me a good story I want to hear." And so I think the essence of good storytelling for any person and it's I think it's what anthropologists would call a human universal is that there's every human on Earth likes to hear story well told. And so, stories bind us to each other. They they aren't just plot and summary. They are narratives that either can teach us or inspire us or give us some sense of perspective, or some way to reflect upon any issue that we're thinking about. And it really works either in the personal realm or the professional realm, in my opinion. So I think storytelling, it's probably been going on since time immemorial, right, because it predates writing and publishing. And I think oral histories and oral storytelling are passed on century to century generation, to generation in every culture we can find.Ray Loewe  5:42  And it's an art form. And yet, it makes things more interesting, and it makes them more memorable. You know, one of the things that we were talking about the other day, is that the time that we're in right now, and I think one of the comments that you made is it's time to take the about us on our website And tell stories.Rebecca Hoffman  6:05  Yes. from a business standpoint, anybody who owns a business or works in business, who has the opportunity to influence what we call like the About Us page, or the team page, or whatever it is on your business website page, or in your marketing collateral, if you tell a good story, people will remember it and it brings them closer, I can give an example that probably everybody we talked to if we asked them, What could you tell me about Steve Jobs at Apple, even though he's passed away a few years now, pretty much everybody who uses technology can say something about him as if they've met him. And so they've done a beautiful job in the corporate realm of creating what they call the origin story, you know, about, he didn't finish school, he was in a garage, he was making stuff. So he was a disrupter. He was difficult. But he was interesting. And he was persuasive. You could say all this stuff as if you've eaten lunch with him. And so the story gets through to people because it's interesting. It's memorable, it's well told, and it's told over and over again. And so we see that in all of the successful enterprises, whether they're small businesses or giant corporations, and those stories help bring customers closer and make them feel part of the ecosystem of the brand. And I think that also helps people feel like what we would loosely call evangelists, like people who are who celebrate a brand because they're familiar with it, and therefore it starts to feel like their team, or they have an affinity for it.KC Dempster  7:37  That's really, remarkably deep. And I know we all laughed, but I didn't mean that to be funny. I think that it's really a very thoughtful concept.Ray Loewe  7:51  Well, what do you want for a good day, right? I mean, after all, but but you know, it is, it is true, we're going to take our podcast going forward. And we're going to spend quite a bit of time on storytelling going forward. And we're gonna look at it in all different kinds of perspectives. So Rebecca, you were just kind of the lead, that's going to get us started on this. And I know what you did for me with my stories, and I had, I'm since learning how to craft stories, but but you look at all of the different things. We're where you can use them. So how do we leave? How do we leave memories for people? Well, right. Go ahead.Rebecca Hoffman  8:33  Well, I think I yeah, so I think that a story allows people a way to transmit memory or history or impressions or emotions. Sometimes it's really very fact based, such as in such year and such year your grandfather came to this country, or, you know, more in a family and people will describe the challenges they face and how they overcame them and little children. And actually it gets older than little children. But it begins with little children will ask Tell me a story before bed or before a nap or when there's some quiet time or you're in the car. You know, my kids aren't that young, and they still ask for stories from our family. And I think that storytelling, at least according to psycho therapists, and I think they're right, builds resilience when people know what it took to get, the moment that you're in now. The hard stories, the sad stories, the big stories, the complicated ones. They are really invested in the storytelling. And if it's part of a family system, it makes them feel even more connected and close to the generations. And so I think that's the piece for people at home to think about. And I think psycho therapists would call it like, a sense of generativity. How do you pass your sense of yourself and your history to the next generation in hopes that they'll then tell that again, or be inspired by it and live a life kind of in accord with that?Ray Loewe  9:54  So what Let's talk for a minute about stories last. Oh, okay. And let me set the stage here because I've seen people have books of photographs. And and yet during this dusty album, you open them up, nobody has any clue as to who's in the photo, what's going on. It's a story of lost. Opportunity lost. I remember my grandmother, okay. And and I remember my grandmother because I can smell the cooking in the kitchen. Uh huh. So, so the story comes from there. So so how do we, you know, if we're looking at ways of telling stories, and let me set a couple scenarios. So number one, maybe we have older parents, grandparents, and they're still here, and before we lose their presence, how do we craft the stories and what do we do?Rebecca Hoffman  10:57  Yes, I think there's probably a couple top level points I would think about in a situation where we want to capture information before it could possibly be forgotten or missing, or misinterpreted or placed in a box and not seen for decades, you have to probably set out a bite sized goal. So you may need to because I think people are home more than normal right now. I think we can all agree we're all more homebound than usual. So we actually have an opportunity with more time to kind of think about this. Literally sketch on a piece of paper or on your iPad, an area of your family history or story that you want told. And then go after those photos and provide them with a context whether you photograph them and you make a digital file, or scan them in, or you already have them digitally organized. And I think probably the most important thing is the narrative, the captioning the ordering of things. So like you said about your grandmother, if you let's say you had some photos in a box of her, could you not organize them in such a way that you could then show someone else who'd never met her? This was my grandmother, she was a remarkable cook. And she made the following things and I can still smell those foods today. And I wish I could eat them right now. Then you're telling an interesting story, versus here's a box of pictures of my grandmother, if you want to see them, you're welcome to have a look. And that person on the outside has no idea what to do with that.Ray Loewe  12:21  Yeah, she was a card shark too incredible Pinochle player. Okay.Rebecca Hoffman  12:27  So these are things that you don't want lost in the dustbin of history, because she was an interesting person. And she probably had specific things that she cooked that were just delicious.Ray Loewe  12:38  Yeah, nobody can recreate. Nobody can recreate them anymore, because the recipes were in her head. So you know, the whole idea is these ideas, I want to explore the opposite approach to a little bit. So. So let's, let's take the situation where you're a grandparent right now, and you have grandchildren, and you want to create stories that the grandchildren will remember. So instead of being initiated by the children, let's initiate it by grandparents and, and how do we do the same kind of thing I know I'm putting you on the spot here. But ButRebecca Hoffman  13:16  I think so the grandparents who was thinking about this at home, probably needs to get some of those photos, or the videos or whatever media they have that can support the storytelling to the extent that they're able, it could be family books could be artifacts, it's just you have to think of yourself like a cultural anthropologist in your own house. Find those elements that are interesting. And then bring them to life because a child is interested in like, show and tell. So if the grandmother has specific cooking pot and made a specific stew, invite that child assuming they're not too young to come and help you make the stew and talk about it and show the pictures and describe what happened. And as you're doing it, maybe even have them write the steps with a crayon as a first step to investing in the memory of the story. And you bring it to life because stories have beginnings, middles and ends. But stories also have exciting details, which is why some movies are more interesting to people than others, or some books are more interesting to people than others. And it varies per person, but the skillful grandparent will think about what their grandchild might find interesting if their grandchild likes to eat, then cook something that the that the grandparent makes and transmit the experience to the child. So it's extremely rewarding and memorable so that they say could we do it again? Or if it's not that then it's looking at the photos and like I remember showing my kids some photographs of my grandfather recently, I said he had a dog here was his dog. His name was Scamper. And he was a very friendly dog. And they like looking at the pictures of my grandfather with his dog. But if I didn't do that, they wouldn't have known This. Right? Yeah, you know, and there's so much you can doRay Loewe  14:57  I mean, even going to the zoo, taking your grandchildren The zoo and, and taking no more than a dozen pictures. And and and putting them in a little book and turn it into stories that you can tell at bedtime, you know to craft and create the memories. You know, one of the reasons we have Rebecca on here, by the way is I know that Rebecca's secret desire is she wants to write for Saturday Night Live. This is why we get all this creativity from her and why she is a master star storyteller. And and you know, one of the things I I know that you study people who tell stories, too, so, so So give us a couple of people that maybe we can look at if we don't know how to tell stories. One way is to mimic other people. And I think you mentioned Spalding Gray. One time, right. I know about Garrison Keillor, right? Absolutely.Rebecca Hoffman  15:49  There's so many. And there's so many kinds of great stories. So Ira Glass, This American Life is a superb storyteller, an interviewer on National Public Radio Spalding Gray, who's since passed away. You can dig up his videos, he sits at a desk and you think, oh god, how am I gonna get through this? Watch this man and a flannel shirt for two hours talk. And you don't even notice the time passing. He's so good. There's a new one. I think I might have mentioned this to you. When we were talking the other day, john Wilson, there's a show on HBO called "How To with john Wilson." There's six episodes. And this man is a videographer, a filmmaker, and probably a little OCD lives in New York. And he's phenomenal. He kind of swirls together how to he likes a how to video like you find on social channels. And then he melds it with like his own personal problems and observations in New York. And he had to build a scaffold because he said there's scaffolding everywhere in New York City, how to make small talk, how to make risotto and he goes and finds a stranger on the street and gets into his kitchen. And makes rissoto with this man. It's all six in a row. They're half an hour each. So you need like three, four hours to do this. Make some popcorn. And you're in the hands of a master?KC Dempster  17:07  Did Ray tell you that today is or last week was national popcorn? Yeah.Rebecca Hoffman  17:12  Well, I do know, that's because I received a card from Ray, my Kansas morning, and we will have some popcorn.Ray Loewe  17:19  It's an important event, you know, and one of the things that people do is they tend not to let events become important. And I think this is one of the things that we want to highlight this year as we go through these podcasts. And we'll have you back later, when we won't put you on the spot. So much we'll kind of set you up in advance with some stuff that you can really think out. But but the whole concept here is number one stories have a message, they're much more interesting than a lot of other ways to relate things. You know that what what's the key to a good story? You know, I don't know that we had the time to really go into that today.Rebecca Hoffman  18:01  But well, I would just say one thing with respect to a good story is you need a good use of vocabulary because people don't like dull words like it was a really nice day. I like the color pink. People want specificity. They want details. So anyone can come up with great details. And don't be afraid to share them because that's what people hang on and remember.Ray Loewe  18:20  So what is it a pink day today?Rebecca Hoffman  18:23  There's an ounce of sunshine, where I am in the Chicago area.Ray Loewe  18:31  So you know whether it's business, whether it's a business story, or whether it's a grandparent, trying to create a memory for grandchildren or whether it is a grandchild or a child trying to capture things from a grandparent while they're still here. And while we have a chance to capture the memories. I think it's a mission worth taking, huh?Rebecca Hoffman  18:56  Absolutely. And it's true. You could almost have a continuum from grandparent to business, it really doesn't matter we should presume and understand that all humans, whatever they're reading, whether it's a marketing brochure, or a family history, it should be interesting. And interesting as if it has been true in real details, the good parts and the bad parts, you know, to help people understand why something matters.Ray Loewe  19:21  Well, we're going to explore over the next several weeks different ways to do this, we're going to bring Bonnie Shea our photo organizer in and she's going to talk a little bit about how to make photos live as opposed to just being digital records.Rebecca Hoffman  19:37  She does brilliant work because one of the challenges in the digital time that we're in is it's easy as you say to go to the zoo, it's a lot harder to take 12 photos than it is to take 120 so if you can hold yourself to that kind of almost minimalist standard, you're gonna have an easier time especially for the grandparent at home. Doesn't want to Sift through 1000 photos from a day at the park. Right? You want to capture some moments, they don't have to be Ansel Adams the perfect image, you know, you know, it can just be the most, the informal casual moments are really very satisfying to so people probably get hung up on perfection. And that's the enemy of good, right. So if you can get a small selection of photos, you have an easier time creating a story about the time you had together then a giant compendium of photos.Ray Loewe  20:29  Now, we're also going to try and bring in some tools that are out there, there, there are places where organizations will send you a question every week or every month. And and it gives you a chance to organize the stories that you want to tell about your life. And, and, and maybe about your life with your family or your life with another person or your life with a business. The whole idea here is that storytelling.KC Dempster  20:57  It's it's a teachable tool, a teaching tool. It's an entertainment tool. And, and, you know, I had, I'll be very quick about this. But in my family, we have a cousin who's going through some real health struggles. And my sister was calling me with an update of what she had heard. And she just was feeling such despair over a lot of the circumstances surrounding this. And I and I said to her, you know, Mary, we come from a family of strong women. And I reminded her of my grandmother on my mother's side, my father's mother, and also our own mother, and the mother of this cousin. And I said, You know, I just reminded her of the stories behind these four women. And I and she took she took comfort in that and said, You know, I never thought of it. But But all of these women were challenged and all of them were able to step up and it was through the stories that we've heard over the years.Ray Loewe  21:55  Okay, so our mission, should we decide to accept it. Okay. It's going to be to tell stories. I think so. And I think there's some wonderful stories out there. Rebecca, thank you so much for your insights today, because I think you're gonna get us started here.Rebecca Hoffman  22:11  Oh, yeah. Thank you, KC and Ray. I think This is the year for storytelling.Ray Loewe  22:17  Yes. Any any final words of wisdom before we have to sign off here?Rebecca Hoffman  22:22  I think that the the only piece I would say is take a chance don't don't wait and hesitate because the moment can get missed.Ray Loewe  22:31  Okay, well, thank you so much for being with us. Again, Rebecca, one of the luckiest people in the world and and you kind of get a sense of why. Okay, and and Rebecca, we will have you back and you can bring your eggs along with you if you wish. And, you know, have a great day. And thanks again for being here. Thank you, Paul. Good to talk to you.KC Dempster  22:55  Thank you everybody for listening. Tune in again next week when we have another fantastic guest one of the luckiest people in the world who will have a lot of wonderful information to share with youRay Loewe  23:06  And maybesome stories evenKC Dempster  23:08  maybe. Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us next week for our next exciting topic on Changing the Rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world. 

John Grady performed as a member of Blue Man Group and in Spalding Gray: Stories Left To Tell in New York City. John has performed around the country with The Moth storytellers. His stories have aired on NPR and CBC radio. His multiple award-winning solo shows, Dog Years, Little Pussy, and The Old Woman have played to sold out audiences at Fringe theatre festivals across the United States and Canada. John also trained at the National Ballet School in Toronto and was a soloist with Ballet British Columbia. TIME STAMPS [00:00:56]    Welcome aboard John- House sitting in LA [00:03:50]    Grady as a kid- The movies were the babysitter [00:08:08]    Ballet comes into the picture [00:16:10]    Learning to Act and perform [00:19:14]    Going out into the world as a young performer-Is this Porno? Ballet school [00:24:30]    The Long and winding road-starts as a dancer in Europe [00:27:14]    No more Europe- back to Ballet in Canada [00:32:24]    Going into acting professionally - Keep Moving [00:38:44]    Wrestling with John to be an actor [00:40:36]    The Blue Man Group [00:57:29]    From Sex and the City to Being a One Man Story Teller [01:02:12]    Spalding Gray- inspiration- The Journey IS the important part [01:08:33]    John does his own One Man Shows [01:17:24]    John doing TV guest spots [01:23:05]    Advice for the Performer Links John’s  Links https://www.thejohngrady.com/ (https://www.thejohngrady.com) John’s IMDB https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0996198/ (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0996198/) Links to Russ on YouTube and his Websites https://linktr.ee/russcamarda (https://linktr.ee/russcamarda) Russ Movies https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2137381/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2137381/) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2414886/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2414886/) http://www.russcamarda.com/ (http://www.russcamarda.com) http://tagstudiony.com/ (http://tagstudiony.com) Production partners https://idunleashed.com/ (https://idunleashed.com) Support this podcast

In this, our third episode, we discuss the feature film directorial debut of Talking Heads frontman, David Byrne, True Stories. Featuring key performances from John Goodman, Spalding Gray, Anne McEnroe, and David Byrne himself. Do we agree it should be on the list? Why was it added so late? We get into it!   Notes: Criterion Collection page Music: “The Endless Scroll” by Absolutely Free courtesy of Idée Fixe Records and Arts & Crafts Music Inc. Follow us online: Twitter: @SurprisingCrit Instagram: @SurprisingCrit

11/01/20 - Interested in podcasting and storytelling? Sag Harbor's Kathleen Russo was married to one of the greatest of storytellers, the late Spalding Gray, and she speaks about his brilliant monologues, and her creative process producing podcasts like Alec Baldwin's "Here's The Thing" and HRC's new podcast "You and Me Both," and the Stony Brook University's Audio Podcast Fellows program, which she co-founded several years ago. Listen in as we chat with Russo about providing a platform for storytellers (and about her own fascinating journey).

Ashley, Matt and Aaron take a moment to discuss this quirky 1986 movie co-written and directed by David Byrne of the Talking Heads. It's about the lives and events of various people who live and work in a small town in Texas.

In episode #13, Camille interviews Tanya about her decades of work as a story mentor. Tanya shares her shame and terror at sharing her personal stories publicly and how she broke through that at 31 years old with her first solo show. Their conversation goes into the true meaning of sharing one’s story, the value in the process for the teller and the listener, and how getting into the specifics of our lives (and not spiritually bypassing them) allows for deep liberation. Listen in to hear Tanya’s journey of helping herself and others step into an inner diversity, expansiveness and lack of agenda that allows for truly groundbreaking material to come through. On breaking through the fear: “When I performed my first solo show I felt like I was going to die of shame. When I didn’t die, something broke open, was liberated in me. And it never shut back down.” - Tanya Taylor Rubinstein Episode Transcript [00:00:01] Restoring the Culture is hosted by Tanya Taylor, Rubins story mentor, and Camille Adair, family constellation facilitator. In this podcast, these long term friends explore how stories servi lives. Their inquiry meanders into the realms of science, theater, health and consciousness, moving the individual and global narratives forward as they draw upon their relationship as the laboratory for their experiments. In true, so many of us feel isolated and alone in our deepest longings. [00:00:37] Each one of us is necessary and rediscovering the truth of our human story and listening to what is calling us forward so that we can read story the culture together. [00:00:51] Hi, welcome to Restoring the Culture. This is Camille and Tanya. And today we're going to be. I'm actually going to be interviewing Tanya on her decades long work with story. And in our next podcast, she'll be interviewing me. And just want to let everyone know that we're going to be moving the podcast to twice a month from weekly to twice a month, so that we can just put more time and energy and intention into the content. We'll also be inviting guests in to join us. And so we're really excited about the evolution of how this podcast is going. So, Tanya, I'm so excited to talk with you about your story work. I have been really fortunate to have done some work with you and to watch you grow and evolve over the last 20 years or so. [00:01:41] And so I love to have you start off by talking a little bit about what the story work you've shared on the podcast before about your mentor, Spalding Gray. But it's sort of like what was what was the story like for you when you started doing story work in the beginning? Can you just sort of, like, capture that? [00:02:02] Because I'd love to hear like, how did how was it then and how has the work evolved as you have evolved? [00:02:10] I love that. And thanks for the opportunity. [00:02:12] I'm grateful that we're doing this and that I get to share with our listeners really my devotion to story and next week that we'll be getting into your deep, long devotion. So it's a great question. [00:02:28] So I would say it was abject terror for me when I began doing my story work. I was. I remember being maybe 24 years old in New York City and I met Spalding, but I was not liberated in my voice. [00:02:48] My voice was very much tethered. I was terrified to be seen, though I longed for it so much. And I was so lonely, lonely person, a lonely child. I think, you know, the first constellation I ever did, my biggest inquiry was why am I why have I been so lonely my whole life? So it was a pivotal question. So I had that ambiguity and I found this was so many of my students and people I've worked with. [00:03:17] It's is this thing inside where we long to connect and be seen and be intimate, insure stories and be untethered in our voice. And yet. It's terrifying. So this really came up for me. I mean, it took me about 10 years or nine years after meeting Spalding to finally perform my first solo show. [00:03:42] When I came to Santa Fe. I did Natalie Goldberg's writing process. She'd just come out with writing down the bones and Julia Cameron's artist's way and those things really helped. But. So I was practicing sharing stories. These little tiny baby steps. Like, I'd shut share one little free, right? That was a paragraph long with, like, my friend Karen and our artists were writing group. I was just terribly blocked by so much shame and so much silencing and so much like just trauma from the way I grew up. And I, I had this it was like a Cohen inside me. Like, how can I speak? Because I had spoken out as a child. And then by the time I was an adolescent, I'd become very shut down. And then more trauma occurred and I became more and more shut down. [00:04:36] So I never shared anything real, really with people or intimate or vulnerable that I remember writing my journal at that age. I so long. To be able one day to share some of these thoughts in my journal with one other person. But I would be so ashamed and I imagined that I would not be accepted and loved if I shared what was in my journal. So. [00:05:05] That feeling in me was also probably the impetus and drive and why I was so blown away by Spalding Gray and why I was so blown away by authentic storytelling. And he was that portal. So when I was 31, I finally was getting up on stage. I tried like five other times. I mean, I'd been an actor and hid behind other roles, not hit, but perform behind other roles. But my own story, I had scheduled I had a script, I had the director, I had the theater. [00:05:37] And I'll never forget the terror that came over me about a few weeks before. And I wanted to cancel so badly. [00:05:47] My ex-husband, I was just on the staircase sobbing. I cannot do this. And I wasn't anyone who'd experienced stage fright as an actor. It wasn't that it was abject terror of exposing my personal, intimate story. [00:06:02] And I remember feeling so much fear on opening night and opening night was like traumatic for me, but not because the people didn't respond beautifully and love it, because it literally took everything I had to get up there and. [00:06:24] Move past my shame, my condition, shame and trauma, family trauma, patriarch, kochan, trauma for sure, feeling defective. My whole life feeling very broken. And to speak. [00:06:41] And expose myself. I mean, I got standing ovations, I got, you know, a great review. I got a not so great review. It was sold out. We extended the run. But the second weekend was the real test for me because I just got a great review in the Santa Fe reporter. So a bunch of people I didn't know came to see the show. [00:07:00] And this man, I remember maybe three or four of them in the front row. They were just sitting with their arms crossed. [00:07:07] And they probably I was probably projecting them like I felt like they look we're looking at me like prove something to me. [00:07:15] And. [00:07:18] From the first weekend, people had laughed at this particular part in the opening 10 minutes and they didn't laugh and I thought they looked stern and I felt very judged. And what happened was I had this shame attack like I've never had in my entire life on stage alone in a solo show performing in front of 150 people in a sold out theater. And the soles of my feet started burning this heat and the heat came all up my body and I could feel it moving all the way through my face. I know my face was bright red, my chest. And I had this moment even after being a professional actor and being trained that way, where I was literally to stop the show. This thought went through my head. Stop the show. Give them all their money back. Apologize. Just get off the stage. So that was the level of terror. And I kept going through this through the shame attack, probably only because I had so many years of acting training. But it's a moment I've helped many of my clients with. To that moment of there is no way I can have this a lacerating self exposure. You know, I will hold me that moment. I felt like I was going to die of the shame. And when I didn't die, something broke open in me, was liberated. And it never shut back down. [00:08:42] I think it's so interesting. The you know, when we you talk about if someone if one other person could just hear my story and you talk about talked about being a lonely child and we're dealing now with sound like actual not I mean, we're dealing with the isolation of the pandemic, but loneliness is becoming a health risk. I mean, it's increasing right. In our culture. And and I just find that there's this really interesting intersection between shame, loneliness, voice and that the human need to share. It reminds me of Peter Lyons work that he talks about in Waking the Tiger. And he uses this example of, you know, right before an earthquake. They've done these studies in L.A. where goldfish can sense that an earthquake is coming before it's detected. And so one of the ways that they can tell that an earthquake is going to happen is when they see goldfish school, they come close, close, close together. And that's how they survive this. This, you know, potential trauma is that they come close together. And I wonder how much of this speaks to the part of us that's a human animal that longs to come closer together. And I remember doing my show at the Lensink when we did that, when we did the caregiver monologues. And I remember you and I used to talk about these bridges of feeling bridges of compassion being built when people would be onstage and they would share their story. And that because we get to the point where there's only one story. That's right. I mean, my friend Michael Stillwater talks about the one great song, you know, that he can he's traveled the world and he does all of this work with the song that it's, you know, eventually comes back to this one song. Do you feel the same thing about story that in when you're working with clients and over the years that you've done that, that you feel that there's like an undercurrent of one story? [00:10:54] That's a great question. Thank you. Because I. And it's a complex answer. I think I have I think years ago I would have just said yes. [00:11:03] But to me in some ways. So to me, the one story is the masculine. Now, the one story is the unified field. It's the it's the sun. [00:11:16] But to be more interested in the individual story, the individuation, because to me, that's the feminine, it's the humanity, it's the each precious voice matters. Each lived experience is seen and witnessed and heard. And in in us coming together in this deeply individuated way when we stand in our unique experience are our unique human experience. I believe it strengthens the community and the tribe. And I believe it's so much about this this human collective experience of being together on Earth. And to me, the one voice. Yes. To me, that's the divine that runs under everything. But it. [00:12:08] But but I think spiritual bypass happens when I'm looking at everything going on right now, right around the issues coming up around racism as a queer. But I mean, I feel this way. But no, I, I, I totally know what you're saying. [00:12:25] I'm just saying write me the story. Work is the really the human work. But yes, of course we're all connected in the one great story. But I think I've become more interested in the specific expression of each story. [00:12:39] So it sounds like you're in like your work is about the process, right. It's not that the final necessarily the final story. [00:12:46] Yes, that's right. That's absolutely true. As a matter of fact. I realize even though I've worked with so many people to finish their books, their solo shows, their business work on their business and get that that story out there about, you know, to leave their place in the world. But I realize underneath is for me, it's all about listening to the broken pieces, the parts that have been left behind, the parts that have been stolen or borrowed, whether by the family system or or the culture or the person, shame or sense of self-worth. So my process is about finding homeless and the brokenness, I would say in the shards and the fragments. And it's kind of messy work and it's kind of a it's the soul retrieval work. Those are the stories I'm interested in. And as I go, I've gone deeper and deeper. Yeah. In my life, my story process, that's where I've landed. And I feel very, very. Not just comfortable like I feel when I'm in my right place there with those stories. [00:13:59] I think that's where our work really merges. And there's a lot of synchronicity between the work that you do and the work that I do. My gosh. Totally. Total synergy, right? Yeah. I guess I'm curious, like, when you look back at sort of the early years of doing story work. Is there anything that you don't do anymore that you did then that you're like, oh, yes. [00:14:26] Yeah, totally. I mean, well, it's funny because it's like what gets validated in the world versus what is the deepest integrity in ourselves. So in the world, I got a lot of kudos for a lot of the early work I did with people, but there was like the cancer monologues. [00:14:46] I think when we work with the Palestinian and Israeli girls, I was very controlling and I was very controlling around what story I thought people should tell versus supporting them in what they both essentially needed to say. And it can be tricky work. I mean, there's real things. There's real things you want to look at in terms of tracking a story that's compelling for an audience to listen to or read or to read. But then there's also honoring the process of what needs to be spoken. So I walk a razor's edge with that, but I really used to go in with more of an agenda. Over time, I've let go of the agenda and I'm noticing. I mean, I was just on a call with four different women who were all my memoir clients on Friday. And I thought, my God, they are writing the stories of the new culture and it's coming through them because I hold a much bigger kind of unflinching space now without agenda. [00:15:57] And how is that connected to. You being in your own story at this time in your life. I guess it's two questions, you being in your own story, which is what I'm hearing. I'm standing at the center of your own story. And and also, how is that affected your the loneliness? How has the love, the loneliness that you experienced then how has that changed? [00:16:22] Thank you. That's a great question, too. Well, I just wrote a Facebook post yesterday because it's gay pride and I wrote a post about not coming out till I was forty nine years old. And I'm fifty six tomorrow, as you know. So even not fully coming out to myself. I think that I was always doing soul retrieval work with others so I could do it for myself. Ultimately, I don't think if I wouldn't have gone in to there was such an insatiable curiosity and me, there were so many things that were taboo to be spoken about in my family, my culture, the way I grew up that were very cold. It was not a warm culture. It was cold and it was judgmental and it was right and wrong. And I think my story work. I kept choosing groups of people to work with. And then I started getting clients who I was so curious about how other people live their lives. And I was so afraid of things like cancer and HIV AIDS. Then I did all that work with those people and I learned that there was humanity there and there was love there. [00:17:31] And I learned there was love there in the face of a father's suicide. I learned there was love in the face of being a trans person. I learned that in the telling of the story and that liberation, what really got liberated was love. And including hospice monologues, right, the liberation was love. [00:17:50] So all of that work was to get to a place where I could be liberated, not just around my sexuality, but around my identity and my place in the world, which was not who I was raised to be on any level, and not just again about the sexuality, but the sense of queerness beingness, not a binary thinker, didn't fit into binary education systems, all kinds of things. [00:18:14] And to love my story now is to love my fate. It's to love my. It's to be in this body and love my life. [00:18:28] And that has softened me. And it's brought bigger stories that have been laid at my feet, mostly now by my students and clients. But yeah. And and it's made me fearless. It's so funny. So that young woman, 31 years old when I did Honeymoon in India, was so terrified to be seen. It was so easy for me to write a Facebook post. I just sat down and wrote kind of a long, intimate post about how long it came to was coming out and about being married to a transgender man and my confusion about my sexuality and marriage and divorce and very divorcing straight men and then having affairs with women. Some people will consider that extreme, you know, vulnerability and or transparency. Like, why would you go there? Well, all that came back to me was so much love. And that's what I've learned now. And I don't feel any shame when I speak about most things now. I am in. I'm not that ambiguity about being visible. It's not that there aren't threads of it that are still there. But I don't have to walk through a minefield of shame and terror. No. To access my voice. What we were just talking about voice my story. And so that the the the way I am able to hold space for others now is much more effortless. Not only do I not have an agenda. It's a much bigger, deeper, broader space. And and it supports them and their excavation and retrieval more quickly. And it's even amazing around structure because we can be very heavy handed. A Western culture right around this is the structure. And I always had such hard times with structure. And and so I worked extra hard for my clients to always give them a structure, give them a framework, give them options. And what's evolving now is in that bigger space, more organic structures are coming up for all their books and and the what my business clients to around story. There's a it's kind of like they're finding their organic structures and those can be individual, too. So I'm learning that frameworks, while necessary to move the progression of a story along, can also be non binary. They don't just have to be hero's journey or heroine's journey or transformational arc or hit all those marks. [00:20:58] They too can be fragments and shards, and sometimes they are very much a heroine's journey. It depends how my client's brains work. And the thing is to not judge the way any particular story wants to express. So there's more inner and outer diversity now in story form, as I've accepted my own inner diversity, which was something I didn't have access to 25 years ago. [00:21:25] Well, and that's what I'm hearing is going back to the question about loneliness. Is that it sounds like you are companion ing yourself now that through your story, work and work with shame that you have become your own companion. And then it takes me to so many of our conversations about what really is true leadership. [00:21:47] And I think true leadership happens when we do the deep work of becoming our own companion. Right. And that is a that's the authentic expression that like no one can teach us. And it is about self acceptance and self compassion and self-love so that we can also, like, share that with others. And and as I'm listening to you, I'm I'm also experiencing how much you've become a leader of who you are in your life and with others. And that that really is leadership. Right. Leadership really is about becoming the authentic. Version of yourself. And and being able to accept yourself fully so that you can bring that out into the world, because otherwise what we're doing when we follow leaders, it's like we're following the recipe. [00:22:39] We're following the the half life, that half life, the half life. And that never ends well. It doesn't take us onto a path of wholeness. I'm going through some of that right now where I'm seeing leaders that for all of their brilliance and all of their hard work, there's still a half life ness about it. [00:22:58] Because because there's been a buy in to this culture that really doesn't want us to come from love. [00:23:08] Doda really still needs to come from doubt and punishment and shame in its own way in order to have some kind of rite of passage. Right. That that and I'm not saying suffering isn't part of the human process, but I think what I've seen you do with your stories is to flip that also upside down on its head so that you allow for the love to become the leadership model as opposed to, you know, with a hierarchical leadership model of approval, disapproval, which is judgment. And it does. [00:23:40] I mean, I think judgment it's it's so the foundation for so much that that keeps us bound in our own stories. Right. [00:23:50] That leads to shame. But I I guess what I'd love to do now is I'd like for us to kind of like move forward. And I'd like to talk about, like, what you're doing now and where you see yourself going with your story work because you're now working with people, with entrepreneurs. I mean, you've really it's shifted right, from taking these themes of like the Israeli-Palestinian monologues and cancer monologues and and the the caregiver hospice monologues. And, you know, you've done work with with veterans. And, you know, you I mean, you've really worked with some really incredible populations. And now you're it seems like you're really focusing on it's like an almost feels to me like an empowerment process for that. For restoring the culture. Right. [00:24:39] Yeah. It's I mean, I'm I feel like I'm restoring everything you hate. So, you know, I'm I'm working with entrepreneurs. Yes. And I'm working with. I'm working with. I mean, my clients now are so diverse. Right. And just thinking I have one woman who's the head of a huge international organization who will likely have a very high profile book. [00:25:01] I have one woman in Europe who is who is a, you know, an escort who works with, you know, politicians. They're taboo stories. [00:25:13] I still I still fall in two different worlds. And people find me. People find me. I believe to. Be accepted in their brokenness and turn the shards into their wholeness, because that's what I've done. [00:25:31] Do you ever find that people are are so married to the brokenness that they can't they can't go with you on that arc of transformation? Yes. [00:25:42] And less and less, because I'm able to lean into the love of them. And in that holding space of really deep love, whether they're shame's coming up or they're starkness or they're projecting on me a little bit, it just doesn't stick to me the way it used to. So I don't take it personally. So a lot of movement is happening, although every now and then people self select out of the container energetically or vibrationally. They just can't hold with the love and they have to go away. It's to confront give back to the ego. And I understand that. I've been there. I've been there where I've just been like it's been to confront to my ego. [00:26:23] But yeah, what I'm thinking about as we talk about leadership and I've been working with some of my entrepreneurs, some of these women in these very matriarchal women's circle, and they love working with you and they love working with my marketing person. I work with them on their stories. But I've been talking about I hate the word branding. Like to brand ourselves so worst. We've decided to call it UN branding on branding storytelling. And right now, I think what I'm referring to leadership. It's like unleashed or ship. It's like unschooling. I don't want to do anything to do with the way leadership or branding has been or even storytelling, frankly, even writing a book. It's like the process is an on learning. It is not. And it is an unlearning so that people can be liberated. In a deep sense of authenticity and step into it, because everything's been tainted by toxic capitalism and by branding and by white supremacy and all of these things that are non indigenous. You were just talking about indigenous leadership and organizations, how it's been taken out. Non-Indigenous to our nature. So when UN process an unlearning to me is where it's at. [00:27:42] So that the stories that want to be freed, that want to be liberated, that the stories that want to lead, that come through me. The stories that want to serve. Others that come through me. So that process is about this radical untethering. Yeah, I saw I see my work going towards UN leadership and UN sort of even with the non binary stories. Right. Looking at structures like telling a story of potency and power. [00:28:19] Well, because the truth is bigger than than, you know, like when we we use a word like leadership. Right. Truth is so much bigger than that. So much so. And it's inclusive. And I didn't. I remember when I was in 2008 when my when Salis Wisdom of the Dying, my film was, you know, came out at and in Santa Fe premiered. And I followed that with a talk that I gave. And there were a bunch of nurses and hospice nurses in the audience. And I remember I I started talking then and I had a title to a talk that was called a nursing home back in 2008, because really to be with dying people, you had to learn how to a nurse because you so much writing present and being and being full enough in yourself that you can hold space for the fullness of someone's death. Right. And that you're not going to rush in and and try and fix something or you're not going to be all about the doing right. Which is so much about happens in nursing and medicine, is that it's all about the intervention. And this is the opposite. Right. [00:29:21] Not that you don't ever, you know, like a skill set. If you're working on a book, you know, you've got to know how to slightly write a chapter or what your themes are, you know, where you're moving. [00:29:31] But frankly, there's some skill sets that come into any practice and a deep practice, particularly those with some kind of outcome. But I love that you did on nursing and death to really surrender to the story that wants to come through is more of a dying process at times than a birthing. [00:29:49] I think that's absolutely right. So in a way, restoring the culture is also understory in the culture and it's restoring the UN culture. [00:29:59] I love that. That's it. Rest for a while, restoring the young culture inside ourselves. That's right. That's right. And then it translates right to the whole world around us. [00:30:10] Well, and as we talk about really the word like the word culture, you know, when I think about it takes me then to the microbiome in the gut. You know, that's that's our true inculturation. Right. The culture that that affects how we think and feel. You know, that is also. [00:30:29] The majority of our immune system. And it's what we talked about before the podcast. [00:30:36] And this work that I'll be talking about on the next podcast, which is how do we move that knowledge from the microbiome down, not up, where we always want to go up into the head. How do we move it down to our feet and connect with the wisdom of the earth and the voice of the voiceless? And I think that's maybe in another. This is a good place probably for us to wrap up. But here's where our work is once again coming together, which is finding the the voice of the voiceless in the story. Yes. You know, and the end that we're restoring, which is which is a process of UN storing, UN culturing. And anyway, it's just I'm so excited for you with your work and I'm grateful to be involved in it and grateful for your friendship. And I'm just want to wish you such a happy birthday. [00:31:27] Thank you, Kimia. And so grateful to be on this life journey with you. For so many years. Me too. So grateful. [00:31:36] And so much learning. And the great thing. Right. Like you're talking about the UN storing the and the storing and going deeper and deeper. The beauty of it is to know it's endless and it always has something new to teach us about ourselves and about this. You know, it's just unraveling the mystery. [00:31:55] Yeah, well. [00:31:56] Well, thank you for taking the time. Thank you. Speak about story with me today. I look forward to our next two hour. Me too. Okay. Bye bye. [00:32:08] Thank you for joining Camille and Tanya for this episode of Restoring the Culture. [00:32:15] If you were inspired, we would deeply appreciate it if you would leave a review on iTunes or any other platform where you heard our podcast. For more ongoing inspiration and support, please join our no cost global Facebook community. Restoring the culture. You can support that podcast by making a donation here. And remember, we are each restoring the culture as we reach story. Our own lives. See you next time.

Recorded on a cool morning in Delanco, NJ. keywords: numeric keypad texting, gardening, Mark Twain, trespassing, Jean Shepherd, This American Life, MP3 CD player, solipsistic individualism, Robert Smithson, Spalding Gray, David Antin Steve McLaughlin Radio Hour May 24, 2020

In this episode of Re-Storying the Culture, Camille and Tanya speak of Re-Storying "Calling." Some of the topics they cover include: Tracking your calling back to early childhood What's love got to do with it? What have you always loved, and what clues does that hold to your calling? How to discover or re-discover your connection to your calling. What's the difference between calling and purpose? What does monetizing have to do with calling? Uncovering your calling. Embracing calling beyond form.   Episode transcript   [00:00:01] Restoring the Culture is hosted by Tanya Taylor, Rubins Steam Story mentor and Camille Adair, family Constellation facilitator. In this podcast, these long term friends explore how stories serve our lives. Their inquiry meanders into the realms of science, theater, health and consciousness, moving the individual and global narratives forward as they draw upon their relationship as the laboratory for their experiments in truth. So many of us feel isolated and alone in our deepest longings.    [00:00:38] Each one of us is necessary in rediscovering the truth of our human story and listening to what is calling us forward so that we can restoring the culture together.    [00:00:52] Hello. And this is Tanya Taylor Rubenstein welcoming you back to another episode of Restoring the Culture. I'm here with my dear friend Camille Adair. And today, we're going to be talking about restoring your calling core purpose. So a quote I'd like to share with you to begin is from Randy Pausch, who was the author of The Last Lecture.    [00:01:21] The key question to keep asking is, are you spending your time on the right things? Because time is all you have.    [00:01:32] And I wanted to share that quote today because I love Randy Pausch. And if you don't know who he is.    [00:01:42] He was a professor at Carnegie Mellon University.    [00:01:45] And one of the reasons I remember that is because I went there to their theater department for a while.    [00:01:50] And when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer as a fairly young man with three young children and diagnosed a terminal diagnosis, he he did a live lecture at Carnegie Mellon. That was just supposed to be for his students. And it went on and somebody videotaped it and it went viral on the Internet probably 10 or 12 years ago. And then he wrote that book and I thought it was so beautiful.    [00:02:25] And it just so profound, so simple. But basically asking ourselves, you know, what are we spending our time on?    [00:02:35] What we're spending our time on is the way we're spending our lives and embodying our purpose and our calling or not.    [00:02:47] Yes. So, Camille, I'd love for you to jump in and beautiful.    [00:02:51] Yeah. Yeah. Such a touching, such a touching quote. And, um, I guess, you know, what, it where it takes me is that I start to start that I start to think about purpose and calling. And you know, that they're sort of like different ways that we can think about that in terms of career, in terms of. But I guess, you know, I'm actually just sort of processing this as I'm hearing the quote. And it takes me to where I I went with my work when I was working in hospice as a nurse. And then I went into management and I was managing a lot of people. And I was really struggling with the lack of sustainability in the health care culture. So I started working on organizational development and an organizational health through this idea of systemic relational health. And I started studying emotional intelligence and became certified as an assessor and was teaching emotional intelligence to health care professionals primarily and leaders. And and one of the things that that you do in building your own emotional intelligence, which is a set of skills, is that you basically identify what your you know, what you're your purposes are, what you know, in one organization, six seconds that I trained with. They call it your noble goal. And and I think that that that requires a certain level of self-awareness and a certain level of identifying what your values are. So I guess where that takes me is when I think of calling and purposes, that's as we grow and evolve and change on and and know ourselves. So does our our calling and our purpose will kind of evolve and change. I think with that, as I noticed, mine has. How about you? You have your purpose. I mean, you're your link to story. Work has been so consistent for so long. I'd love to hear about that.    [00:05:04] Yeah. Are you sure? And one of the reasons I love that quote from Randy, I think and I was just I watched his last lecture over and over.    [00:05:13] It was very meaningful to me. He talks a lot about child like Wonder.    [00:05:18] And he created a whole career around that.    [00:05:23] And I often have had, for whatever reasons, a lot of my coaching clients, a lot of my story clients coming to me over the years and people I've worked with on their stories who will sort of even off to the sick side say, and sometimes they're in their 40s or 50s, 60s, 70s. I never found my purpose.    [00:05:44] And the question I always ask them is, why did you'd love to do when you were very young? What are the first things you remember? Because there's often a clue there. And for me, I can honestly say, you know, sort of the the. And I remember this well. My mom said to me that as soon as I could put two words together, I was putting it, stringing them together and writing poetry and would do, you know, push it under her door. Little poems with three or four probably misspelled words. And I remember that I was proud. It was before I even went to kindergarten and she was a school teacher. So she taught me to read and write very early. And I remember just being fascinated by. Yeah. Bye bye. Bye bye, star.    [00:06:31] Re reading my stories, I would read over and over and over, I'd fall in love with a story like Charlotte's Web and Weidner Summer, my mother said I read it like 20 times because I couldn't bear it when Charlotte died. But if I started reading this story over, she was alive again.    [00:06:53] And I think I connected some kind of magic to that.    [00:06:58] Our stories keep us alive. There was something young in me and then I became an actor. But it was when I met my mentor, the late Spalding Gray.    [00:07:10] When I was 20 in Boston, my acting professor took my class to see him.    [00:07:18] And for those who don't know, Spalding was a very became a very well-known monologue. US, though, not a household name to everybody.    [00:07:26] And I met him at 20 and he was onstage sharing about his life. And he was sharing stories that could be considered taboo in in our kind of culture. About his mom suicide, about his quest for the moment, in a moment about his sexuality, about his struggle with depression.    [00:07:49] And I walked out of the theater at 20 and I felt liberated and I thought, I'm going to do that. I didn't want to be behind the artifice of characters. I didn't know that until I met Spalding. But I felt alive and awakened. And he gave me permission.    [00:08:08] And I've pretty much spent my career giving myself permission to speak.    [00:08:15] Authentic story and help other people do that, and it's really true, it's like my outer career. Whenever I stick with stories one way or another, it always works and always had. And whenever I move away from story and think I should do something else, whether that's I think I should, you know, get a real job. And for a while I became a P, you know, work for a PR agency, had nonprofit jobs when I was younger. Number one. I'm miserable. But number two, my life falls apart. So it's interesting because for me, sticking with story is not only my barometer, but when I stick with story, my life just unfolds the way it feels like it's supposed to.    [00:09:04] So it's really. I know I'm very fortunate that my purpose presented so young and that it's like my North Star that I always can return to.    [00:09:16] Mm hmm.    [00:09:18] So beautiful, it makes so much sense, I felt like you were, you know, like Hansel and Gretel walking through the forest and leaving breadcrumbs for me to follow what was really I just had this complete reverie. And your story is gorgeous. Thank you. Yeah. Not sure about the Hansel and Gretel.    [00:09:36] I love the image I had. Totally. No.    [00:09:39] And those experiences, for me, it was our marriage, right? It is you, the inner part of your inner marriage.    [00:09:45] Is your relationship to story and how that's playing out inside of you. And I mean inside of you and how that manifests outside in the world.    [00:09:54] Yes. And it continues to deepen. Right. In this podcast. My favorite part is when we share stories. And you know what? I know there's a spiritual component in story work, too, that feels like at this age in my life, in my 50s. The part that I most expl interested in exploring that distort that intersection between spirit and storytelling, something that intersects in in my work with you, in our work together. But when people aren't sure their purpose, just getting back to what you said about Hansel and Gretel, I think bread crumbs are an important thing because I think the world can put heavy pressure on us around. Do you have your big purpose? So I think the inquiry is what is as close to me as my own breath. You know what's always been there for me? It may not look like a vocation or even a vocation that the world.    [00:10:54] But it's in there and it's it's a great inquiry to go back to childhood because often our deepest gifts are so natural to us that we don't always recognize them.    [00:11:08] I think that's really true, yeah. They're so close. They're some 30, so part of who we are that we don't see them as something that we would bring to the world through us.    [00:11:20] Exactly. And I see that happens with women a lot.    [00:11:25] And I think about all the clients I've worked with over so many decades. And, yes, something that can be that they take for granted, because in our culture, we don't always value our gifts or our gifts or have been called soft skills sometimes. Right. If they don't align with a degree or something that can be monetized or a monetized in an obvious way, they can be minimized and there can be a real unique brilliance that a person starts to marginalize to themselves. That is actually a gift and an offering to others and may be a bigger gift in the world that than people are able to recognize.    [00:12:10] Yeah.    [00:12:12] Oh, boy. I'm just this is going to have to be edited out because I just really lost. I was just onto something.    [00:12:19] Oh, I know.    [00:12:22] So I think one of the things that we confuse is calling with how we make money. Yes. Right. And I think that that it's a tricky dance, because we all want to do we all want to, you know, do what we love in our work and we'd love to make money that way.    [00:12:42] But the getting there is not typically a straight line for most people. And I think what I'd love to do is I you know, you talked about you're sort of calling and we thought about through story and breadcrumbs and you took it back to childhood and what do people love? And that really makes me think about mine.    [00:13:03] I haven't thought about it in that way.    [00:13:06] But, you know, when I was growing up, both of my parents are therapists. And so we would have you know, they'd call a family meeting. And, you know, for kids, I'm the oldest of four and everyone would just be like, oh, no, not the family meeting as my daughters did. They hated the family meetings. Right. Everyone felt like, you know, something was going to be revealed that was going to be hard, you know. Right. Or that people would be asked to share something that they didn't want to share. But I always at the thought of a family meeting, I couldn't get in there fast. I was the one listening to the adults. So I realized I had my whole life I've been really drawn to process. I've really been drawn to depth and intimacy and truth. And I think part of when I was a kid, like listening to adults talk is that what I was listening for was truth. I wanted to know. Yeah. And that's, I think, been a through line in my life.    [00:14:08] You know, when I was a hospice nurse, you know that, you know, the process of dying and the process of being a human being and being the humanity in the relationship. So it's really for me about connection and relationship and the process of that that that informed all of my death and dying work. And then it went into my, you know, emotional intelligence work and mindfulness work. And obviously in the Constellation work, I mean, that's very relational. And I think, you know, for me, the other words that come to mind are it's it's as if I'm drawn to process. And what can come about from in relationships through process, in the mystery that is has to do with inspiration, truth and revelation, and that that is transformative and that that often is unconscious and held in the mystery. So it's a lot of words to try and describe something about myself that's drawn to the process of relationship and the transformative power of that, I think. And finding truth, which is never one thing. Right.    [00:15:17] So for me, that's also part of, you know, restoring the culture around this is that a calling is not a set point, a calling. Like when I've when I think of calling, I think for me how I would read story that is that it's not something I'm pursuing. It's actually something that has called me. Yes.    [00:15:40] Like saying you're it. Yeah, totally. Right.    [00:15:44] And it and I can feel it coming, but I don't know what it is for a long time. But I feel like there's something else out there. And then when I'm called, it's like I slip in and it's all just effortless. And then I'm like, oh, my God, this is it. Like, how did I get here? Sort of like, how did I go to nursing school? That was a big, huge question mark. Right. Because I that was like never really. On my radar until it was. Same thing with, you know, moving into hospice work and constellation work. That was a total calling. That called me.    [00:16:19] I wasn't looking for that. And the same thing with the union work. You know?    [00:16:24] Here I am, 54 and graduate school so that I can fulfill this thing because I'm being called into this union container. I don't know where it's going to take me, but I feel committed to show a full as fully as I can so that I can be in this journey with myself and respond to this call. So it's really interesting. How do we Restoril? Because I'm starting to think like we can misinterpret, like calling us something that's comes through our will.    [00:16:53] But I actually think there's something bigger at work, a bigger maybe also a bigger part of ourselves. But there there is there's more magic to it than we realize.    [00:17:06] I think well, I totally agree.    [00:17:08] And one thing I want to share that has been super important for me is to trust that intuitive voice that you're talking about, the way you just kind of slip in and it's effortless.    [00:17:23] But there's something to that about trusting. And I know that I've had some, you know, projects that I've done, like when I did the cancer monologue project, that was very much part of my calling and purpose.    [00:17:38] But A, it came in a dream and B, it didn't make any sense. And I followed it anyway. And I want to say that an a business program I was in. I have been in. It was like it. It showed up. And on one level, it didn't make sense. But there was a draw right from the inside out. To me, there's something that when something's about my calling. It's not about my ego. I'm not just making a mental decision. It comes. And I think these things drop in for most people, especially for paths and people who are highly sensitive and open and creative. But I think when people are struggling for a long time, it may seem like that those messages haven't arrived. But I would say, have they arrived? And you haven't trusted yourself? Because I also know times in my life when the that calling has come and I've ignored it or I've marginalized something that wanted to come through because just because I wasn't in a space where I was trusting.    [00:18:50] So I just wanted to say that for me, it it arrives and it and it will come from a place.    [00:18:57] And when I do trust it, this is about the radical faith piece. It's almost like a different part of my calling. Them purpose is revealed. And it could never be something that I could just quote unquote, figure out.    [00:19:11] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.    [00:19:13] I mean, what do you think about that and the way intuition plays in with calling?    [00:19:18] I think yeah, it was very well said. And that's how it's been for me, is that it's something that comes from the inside. And it doesn't make sense. It's not my colleagues have never made sense. Right. I mean, going back to graduate school when I could be. Now, I thought with that one for a long time, because my constellation business has been really thriving and I've been teaching and I could easily take my skill set and run a really successful business with it. And so I struggled with that, like, am I always just chasing the next thing? And as I see it now, though, in terms of my own personal growth, it's really taken me to a much deeper place.    [00:19:55] That was a. So I would think about that like a soul calling, you know.    [00:20:00] And so for me, like that feels a little different than purpose because you're you're still calling maybe your purpose. But if when I just hear the word purpose, I get heady and I go into my thinking mind about it. And it's like it's something to be figured out. And I don't think a calling is something to be figured out. I think a calling is something we live into.    [00:20:21] And the beautifully set out. Beautifully put. Yeah. And Ted, I like you distinguishing them in that way because I kind of think of them as the same thing.    [00:20:31] But you're right. And purpose may very much have to do with how our calling is utilized in a more worldly way. Right. To serve others or consider even to make a living. Do you know the Japanese concept icky guy? Mm hmm. I've heard of it. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. And people can look it up and it's like it's a it's force circles and it's looking at the central point in the middle where they intersect. And it's what you're good at, what you love, what the world needs and what you can make. Money Act, and I think that may be more applicable to aligning with purpose rather than calling. But of course, what we love and what we're good at so often arises from calling. But that also puts out the inquiry. What does the world need? So how can we serve with our gifts, but also in terms of vocation? What can we make money at? And I do think the calling may or may not be able to fulfill that. Right. But like a purpose. Yeah. And the arts.    [00:21:42] I'm glad you reminded me of the icky guy because we actually who use that I brba Dossey, nurse friend of mine and mentor introduced me to that and has and brings that into her work with other nurses.    [00:21:56] It is a great tool.    [00:21:57] It's like it's like, you know, several that like sets event diagrams laid over each rightest.    [00:22:04] Great. And yeah, I think I think that's right. I mean, when I think about making this personal to me, I think about, you know, my tagline is re learning human connection.    [00:22:15] And I think since I've been in the union program, it's I'm becoming clear that my work has to do with the split, that what I'm drawn to is I'm actually drawn to how do we mend the splits inside of us and how do we and then and how those splits inside of us get projected in the world around us and that we live in such a fragmented world. And part of that may be that we are also carrying these internal splits and how do we mend that?    [00:22:49] And then, you know, so if I were to differentiate that as my calling, that's like my my soul's calling to my professional life.    [00:22:59] Yeah. It's manifesting in in this graduate program and continuation of my my training programs and client work and.    [00:23:09] And, you know, my desire to even, you know, do work with systems more because I see systems as holding so much power.    [00:23:19] I love working with individuals.    [00:23:22] And I also think that systems are like a little worlds unto themselves.    [00:23:26] And if you can bring some of these these like laws, these natural laws that guide and principles that that guide reconciliation and balance and harmony so that people can all live into their calling.    [00:23:44] Right. In a healthy state and a healthy human system, all people will be living into their gifts and purpose.    [00:23:50] Well, and that's something we're really looking at. Now, right now, in the midst of the pandemic. Right. In terms of restoring the culture and and seeing the parts of the entire system that have been toxic and broken. And how were we going to shift the split collectively so that we're not going back and recreating the old culture and rather moving with the energy of this pause and what it's teaching us. And I'd love to hear what you want to say about that, because I know it's bubbling up for everyone. You and I were talking about it this morning on a phone call. But the way I'd love to hear what you're thinking in terms of sort of the global system, some of the. Yeah. The collective systems that are not only failing us, but we're seeing the human impact and the impact to the earth.    [00:24:55] Well, I guess, you know, the first place I go with that is a simple exercise, which is the minute you find yourself looking at the other liberal, looking at conservative, conservative, looking at liberal, somebody who thinks we should approach the Corona virus, you know, from complete isolation, lockdown, quarantine to somebody who believes in herd immunity. Right. I mean, wherever you have an issue, you're going to have an opposite. And so if you start to find yourself getting really roughed up inside and thinking about that other who represents that issue and you start feeling like you are really right, you're convinced your way is right.    [00:25:43] I think be very, very careful. Because to me, that's an indication of of identity, an identification with the split, and the split is its own energy. And I think we are becoming seduced by the split. And it's not we confuse it for vitality because it makes us feel powerful and we have confused opinion and belief for relationship.    [00:26:13] And then despite. Right. In a sense, they're a waste of time. Yeah. Which comes from our direct experience forced our mind.    [00:26:20] And it doesn't mean that we we don't have, you know, an opinion or an orientation to something. But it means that if we start to just always think that our way is the right way and we stop being curious about the other or we start demonizing, I really believe that's the goal of this world. It's actually more related to greed than we might realize. You know what I keep thinking about that greed is is sort of the foundation for so much of what hurts us in the world.    [00:26:52] And and I think that what I'm looking at here with the split is something that's resonant with greed. And it may not seem connected, but if if everyone is so sure that they're right. And the other one is wrong.    [00:27:09] Oh, we're screwed, man.    [00:27:13] Well, I mean, I guess I think in terms of the Constellation work you do, right, there's a premise and I think it's a hard pill to swallow.    [00:27:22] Like when I listen to you, I kind of go, yeah, I kind of agree and I kind of down. But I do agree with the idea that everyone has the right to be long and it's a hard pill to swallow in a world where there's so much perpetration and where there's so much pain caused by certain toxic systems and people running with that. Right. Whether that's white supremacy or whether that's patriarchy. And yes, we're all carried along and damaged by patriarchy. The men and women. But I wonder about like looking at the perpetrator and the victim and everybody's right to belong. And maybe if you could talk a little bit more about that, because I sometimes do feel a kick back around. Well, this is the difference between judging versus discernment when some people or systems are clearly doing more harm outwardly to individuals or the environment than others. So how would you address that?    [00:28:34] Well, I think if you were to be in relationship with that. Then you would be curious to know what's underneath it, what's underneath the perpetration, what's underneath that thing that is causing more harm than good, and our human inclination is to push away everything that feels dangerous and uncomfortable to us.    [00:28:57] But the truth of the matter is, is that we live in a closed system. So if we talk about systems, global systems, we could talk about the planet Earth.    [00:29:05] Every time you throw something into the garbage, that thing doesn't disappear. It goes into a landfill or goes into, you know, you're putting it in the compost. Everything is recycled. Even sustainability, which I've always been drawn to, sustainability itself is always changing because we're always evolving and changing. So we always want to find one right answer. That is the the recipes. But we are dynamic, evolving beings, constant dating around each other. And sometimes it gets messy. And the truth of the matter is, humans hurt each other just. Absolutely. Just like, you know, suffering is part of the human condition, having pain and physical pain and emotional pain. It's part of having a body and a heart and a nervous system, you know. And I think I'm not saying we should run into the belly of the beast or throw ourselves in harm's way. That's not what I'm saying at all. But what I'm saying is that we have lost our ability to have creative dissonance, which is a phrase that I've learned from him, from someone who's important helping me in my life right now in my training.    [00:30:14] And this idea of creative dissonance is really.    [00:30:19] I'll tell you a little bit based in a dream I had recently that is still with me. I had a dream early on in the pandemic where I was given the answer to how to deal with the Corona virus. And that answer was that I could. I literally had a high pitched tone that I was singing through my right bundle of vocal chords. And I could even put my fingers like, you know, on my throat and feel where that was. And I was singing and kind of this high tone. And then on the left side of my throat, I put my fingers there and I could feel myself singing in a low tone. And there's a way in which if you sing in a high tone and you sing in a low tone, you can do. You can actually do that at the same time. And it creates an undertone that's like this that we think of like when we hear, you know, certain monks singing, my lord.    [00:31:20] That's what I was gonna say. A lot of that. Monks chanting and Tibetan monks chanting.    [00:31:26] Also, it takes me to my ancestral roots, which is, you know, when Swedish women call to the animals, they do that very same thing. They mix a high note and alone. And there's another bass note underneath it that creates some kind of a harmonic convergence. Now, this this this person who I've been talking to about this is actually an expert in music. And he was saying, you know.    [00:31:59] That's real harmony, that's that's what makes music really brilliant and interesting, is when you bring in dissonant notes and they create something that is completely different than themselves as dissonant notes.    [00:32:16] Right. They're just and totally each other. And that's what creates the best music that we have on planet Earth. And so why wouldn't it be the same thing with human beings? We've just really lost our way to do that. And again, there's a huge paradox here, because I'm not saying, you know, throw yourself at the perpetrator or indulge yourself as the victim.    [00:32:37] No, I'm saying that we've got we have a set of skills that we've lost that indigenous cultures knew how to access in their relationship to the earth and their relationship to their bodies and their relationship with each other. And they had ways of helping to maintain systemic relational health. And we've really lost that. And part of our losing that has to do with we are not able to deal with discomfort, dissonance. And therefore, we don't have resonance. We will never have resonance until we can incorporate dissonance.    [00:33:15] I agree. And I learn a lot from you. And I have my own sort of process with this. But I want to share a story about doing a constellation with you because I feel very, very, very charged personally. And I want to share this because I'm sure some of our listeners do, particularly as a somebody who has identified with people who have been harmed. I mean, I feel very angry about what's happened to indigenous people in this country. I feel very allied with black activists as a white woman.    [00:33:54] But, you know, I understand that the the voices have been marginalized, their culture, they're at risk for everything more in this culture, which is really capitalism run amok based on patriarchy and white supremacy. You know, the deep, deep cultural ills. And I have a lot of ya just allegiance with people who have been marginalized. And I think we could all be marginalized, though, in different ways. That's a different conversation. I think spirituality and people who are intuitive and imparts and psychic's have been marginalized in Western culture. There's levels of it. Right. And we're reclaiming some of that on this. But I do want to share that. It was fascinating to me that I did a constellation with you not that long ago in a group. And what came through was one of my ancestors who was a perpetrator that I did not know about who had led in Massachusetts. One of the, you know, great like well-known killings of a lot of native people there, and that there is even a statue of him in a square in Springfield, Mass. And that I did not know about him until I did a constellation with you. And I represented the voice of a lot of native women who had been killed in New Mexico in that constellation that took me on a rabbit down a rabbit hole where I did an Internet search and found out about this part of my family tree that I didn't even know about, which is kind of the crazy and magical part of doing family constellations. It's quantum work and it's amazing how it can get validated. But somehow that made some sense to me that when that story had been in the shadows of my family to the point that 10 generations down, I didn't even know about it until I did the work with you and then found it, which was incredible that somehow it's the thing you've talked about before, that we each have our own history, that we're each spiritually sovereign, that we each have our family history, that we are trying to reconcile things that are multi-layered and multidimensional.    [00:36:31] And often we don't know what's moving our anger or our rage or our kick back to something.    [00:36:38] But I just wanted to share that, because I think since then I've been hanging with more complexity on myself is the word. And yeah, so I wanted to share that because my natural.    [00:36:58] Response in terms of polarizing with myself.    [00:37:04] Has to do with, you know, ways people have very genuinely been marginalized.    [00:37:09] But owning my own particular family peace that was there and healing something and that maybe gives me more spaciousness in general towards the complexity of each of us. Right. We are such layered beings.    [00:37:27] And while we are and I I really appreciate you bringing that your own story into that, because I know sometimes when I speak about things, it can seem really theoretical and it can be really hard to relate to on that level. So I think it's really important to ground that because, of course, I mean, I have my own political opinions. I have my own causes that I get fired up about. I mean, it's none. So but I do think that. I do think that, you know, when I guess this is where we're running out of time here, but I'd like to share something that I shared with a friend recently, another health care clinician, and we've been working together. He's also a Constellation facilitator and we've been working on, you know, as to Constellation facilitators, how are those principles manifesting in our own lives?    [00:38:24] And then I found myself saying. Love. We'll call everything to itself. That is unlike itself.    [00:38:40] It's it's there's a bigger energy that everything is part of the system. And so we can have opinions and we can fight for our causes. But if we start to buy into the split, then we move away from love and then we'll get called back into it. And and that's not going to be an easy return. No, no.    [00:39:01] Totally. It reminds me of one of my dear, somebody who is so dear. And he passed from Lou Gehrig's disease. He was my daughter's preschool teacher and his name was Robbie. I'm still friends with his wife, Martha. Incredible, incredible people.    [00:39:15] And he was like out there in his like the 60s hippie, you know, tie dye t shirt. A very, very loving being and certainly very radical and sort of on the left, but very loving, very wise and astrologer. And, you know, I remember coming in after George Bush's second election and every parent at the school, you know, a little liberal conclave, progressive conclave in Santa Fe, we were all like so feeling really shattered. And he said something to me that really stayed with me. He said, oh, he said, George Bush. You know, he I wouldn't want to play his role, but he's doing a great service to us. I said, what do you mean, Robby?    [00:40:02] And he was just smiling very joyfully. He said, you know, he's playing the role to show us all who we are.    [00:40:08] He's playing the role of the shadow. He's he's willing to take on all those projections. And I thought about that in the, you know. Right.    [00:40:18] The collective, the shadow work, the things we don't want to see and how somebody who we see as a quote unquote, monster carries our projections. How much is about them? How much is about ourselves. And, of course, in politics, what collective consciousness do we choose to elect?    [00:40:41] And I also think about Alice Miller's work, whose, you know, the Germans psychotherapist who has written such amazing books like, You Know, For Your Own Good and her book of, you know, megalomaniacs, narcissists, monsters throughout time, who I would you know, we would label monsters.    [00:41:02] And of course, what does she reveal is the not only the abuse that they have suffered as children. And I'm talking ones who go on and do great, great harm collectively.    [00:41:16] But the fact that they weren't seen and they weren't witnessed.    [00:41:21] So the whole system around them, not only was there usually great abuse, but the system around them co cooperated with the abuse, enabled the beat, the abuse and how when children are abused. But there's somebody loving who bears witness to them usually changes the course of destiny in terms of how perpetration, part of how perpetration evolves. So there's there's so much in all of this, isn't there? Like it's like the ego wants there to be an easy answer. Good, bad black/white. And it doesn't in any way justify harm on others. Right. Or the responsibility there. But it opens up the bigger questions. I think we're talking about.    [00:42:09] Well, it does. And it and I'm glad you said that the part about the the answers in the black and white thinking, because that takes us back to Ian McGilchrist work and his incredible book, The Master and his Emissary. And he's talking about how we're moving into a time of left hemisphere dominance, which is, you know, because we have the printed word. Our brains have changed because of so many different things. And and and so we're becoming more focused in being goal oriented, in wanting to have the answers. And it's much less relational. And I think that's part of, you know, me fighting my good fight is about helping, wanting us to become more balanced in the right hemisphere of our brain, which is where art and creativity and poetry and relationship and feeling come from. And and and to have a relationship between the right and the left, which is the corpus callosum and how how do we work with that bridging? Because we need both just as we need both. Everywhere we go. And I guess I would like to end this. We're out of time. I just. And then I think you're going to give a couple writing prompts.    [00:43:14] But just to say how many people could enter into a conversation where they talk about their own shadow.    [00:43:27] That's interesting to me. Means what I'm doing my for crackdowns correctly and I'm spending that's been years on onlooking.    [00:43:35] My own shadow, that's what this is all about, you know, and that's really been the thrust of my story work. What are the things we consider unspeakable? Let's speak them. Let's bring them out. Because if that darkness is an address and we don't share it together and it doesn't ever come into the light, that's where it does harm. As soon as we share the stories, there's a liberation that happens emotionally and spiritually around those things we're holding. Which is why intimacy. Right. Is so connected to expression.    [00:44:10] Thank you so much. What a great podcast. You want to give some writing prompt?    [00:44:13] Yeah, well I yeah, I'll end on this.    [00:44:16] So I'm in the restoring process that I do with people and Camille and I often do ah. Each bring a different skill set to the restoring process. But one of the tools I've developed over the years I call wisdom writing.    [00:44:31] So I will if you want to do a little writing, you can use this for anything.    [00:44:36] You can use this in terms of purpose and calling that we started talking about or the way the conversation moved towards right shadow and dissonance and maybe some hard polarize places and ourselves. But what you want to do really, it's a three step process and it's great if you add a fourth step of sharing it with somebody and just asking them to listen to you and just say thank you, not to get advice so much, just to be witnessed in it. But even if you're doing it alone. Very powerful. So the first thing I say is just let's go back to purpose. And if any question you have around like anything that sort of bothers you or you feel unsettled about in terms of your purpose in calling and just writing that at the top of a page and this is to be done handwritten, not on the computer, it uses a different part of neuro with neuroscience that uses a different part of the brain where you can access more information.    [00:45:34] So just right at the top of the page, like, you know, for example, I want to know how to deepen my my service work in the world to make a bigger impact at this time.    [00:45:48] Just an example. So anything like that you're thinking about around purposeand service that isn't resolved just right at the top of this stage.    [00:45:56] Step two, just want you to close your eyes and invite in your inner wisdom. And as opposed to journaling or even a free right, you don't just write on a topic. You it's an inquiry.    [00:46:14] It's an inquiry of your connection to your highest self, your intuition, the Crohn God doesn't matter what you call it, and just say, you know, what do I need to know?    [00:46:29] To shift this issue energetically and then you just want to right, and just.    [00:46:37] I always say to people, just allow yourself to be surprised. A different voice may come through and that than what you usually access when when you write because you've asked a question. So be open to hear the answer. It's kind of like meditation on the page. Keep your hand moving right without stopping to judge. Don't worry about spelling, grammar, punctuation, any of those things and do it as a timed writing. So set your your timer for, you know, 15 minutes to start and let yourself go and really just stay open to see what comes. And the last part of the exercise is.    [00:47:16] Number three, what actions can I take at this time to help me move forward in terms of a resolution?    [00:47:28] And you can honestly and then again set the timer for 15 minutes and see what wants to come in terms of specific actions. So the answer to question number two is more about the energetic, the consciousness. Any insights and a shifts in your identity or creative ideas that want to come in terms of how you can meet the problem and set. And number three is really about any direct actions you may want to take. And then if you're able to share both the your story and the restoring that happens around it with somebody, ask them to just listen to you that what you're seeking is just to be witnessed rather than to be given any advice, because it's really just about being witnessed by another human being in the wisdom that is bubbling up from within.    [00:48:23] Thank you, friend.    [00:48:25] Mm hmm. Thank you, Camille. Always so wonderful to talk. And yeah. And share this with everyone who's out there listening.    [00:48:36] Thank you for joining Camille and Tanya for this episode of Restoring the Culture. If you were inspired, we would deeply appreciate it if you would leave a review on i-Tunes or any other platform where you heard our podcast. For more ongoing inspiration and support, please join our no cost global Facebook community, Restoring the Culture. You can support that podcast by making a donation here. And remember, we are each restoring the culture as we read story. Our own lives. See you next time.   

Everything is contingent, and there is also chaos.

Performance / Media / Art / Culture: Selected Essays 1983-2018 (Intellect Books, 2019) collects more than thirty years of critical writing by artist and writer Jacki Apple. These essays trace important developments in performance art both in the Los Angeles and New York scenes, discuss artists including Laurie Anderson, Spalding Gray, Meredith Monk, and Lin Hixson, and track cultural shifts such as the culture wars of the 1980s, the emergence of left-wing censorship in the 1990s, and the emerging ecological consciousness of today. An essential monument to performance practices that often left behind few records and produced scant archives but radically reshaped performance in the last quarter of the twentieth century. Andy Boyd is a playwright and podcaster. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Performance / Media / Art / Culture: Selected Essays 1983-2018 (Intellect Books, 2019) collects more than thirty years of critical writing by artist and writer Jacki Apple. These essays trace important developments in performance art both in the Los Angeles and New York scenes, discuss artists including Laurie Anderson, Spalding Gray, Meredith Monk, and Lin Hixson, and track cultural shifts such as the culture wars of the 1980s, the emergence of left-wing censorship in the 1990s, and the emerging ecological consciousness of today. An essential monument to performance practices that often left behind few records and produced scant archives but radically reshaped performance in the last quarter of the twentieth century. Andy Boyd is a playwright and podcaster. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Performance / Media / Art / Culture: Selected Essays 1983-2018 (Intellect Books, 2019) collects more than thirty years of critical writing by artist and writer Jacki Apple. These essays trace important developments in performance art both in the Los Angeles and New York scenes, discuss artists including Laurie Anderson, Spalding Gray, Meredith Monk, and Lin Hixson, and track cultural shifts such as the culture wars of the 1980s, the emergence of left-wing censorship in the 1990s, and the emerging ecological consciousness of today. An essential monument to performance practices that often left behind few records and produced scant archives but radically reshaped performance in the last quarter of the twentieth century. Andy Boyd is a playwright and podcaster. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Performance / Media / Art / Culture: Selected Essays 1983-2018 (Intellect Books, 2019) collects more than thirty years of critical writing by artist and writer Jacki Apple. These essays trace important developments in performance art both in the Los Angeles and New York scenes, discuss artists including Laurie Anderson, Spalding Gray, Meredith Monk, and Lin Hixson, and track cultural shifts such as the culture wars of the 1980s, the emergence of left-wing censorship in the 1990s, and the emerging ecological consciousness of today. An essential monument to performance practices that often left behind few records and produced scant archives but radically reshaped performance in the last quarter of the twentieth century. Andy Boyd is a playwright and podcaster. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Performance / Media / Art / Culture: Selected Essays 1983-2018 (Intellect Books, 2019) collects more than thirty years of critical writing by artist and writer Jacki Apple. These essays trace important developments in performance art both in the Los Angeles and New York scenes, discuss artists including Laurie Anderson, Spalding Gray, Meredith Monk, and Lin Hixson, and track cultural shifts such as the culture wars of the 1980s, the emergence of left-wing censorship in the 1990s, and the emerging ecological consciousness of today. An essential monument to performance practices that often left behind few records and produced scant archives but radically reshaped performance in the last quarter of the twentieth century. Andy Boyd is a playwright and podcaster. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Performance / Media / Art / Culture: Selected Essays 1983-2018 (Intellect Books, 2019) collects more than thirty years of critical writing by artist and writer Jacki Apple. These essays trace important developments in performance art both in the Los Angeles and New York scenes, discuss artists including Laurie Anderson, Spalding Gray, Meredith Monk, and Lin Hixson, and track cultural shifts such as the culture wars of the 1980s, the emergence of left-wing censorship in the 1990s, and the emerging ecological consciousness of today. An essential monument to performance practices that often left behind few records and produced scant archives but radically reshaped performance in the last quarter of the twentieth century. Andy Boyd is a playwright and podcaster. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to be a healer? What is a healing process? What does it mean to view life through a healing or artistic lens and do the two always intersect? These are some of the topics that Camille and Tanya explore in this episode of Re-Storying the Culture.  They also delve into professional experiences to share their perspectives on why some stories are helpful, and why other stories harm or re-traumatize.  From a cultural lens, Camille speaks of certain pressures or obsessions that those of us in Western Culture often experience around telling a personal narrative or experiencing a personal  healing. She offers thoughts around how to hold this in a gentler manner and re-story the energetic by calling in our connection to a much bigger familial story.  Tanya speaks of cultural movements through the lens of storytelling and the end of the era of the guru. Camille shares on her own experience with a life threatening illness, and her work as a hospice nurse to humanize health care and mental healthcare.  Tanya speaks of writing mentor, Natalie Goldberg and what it's like to go deeper and deeper in writing practice to access underground stories.   Subscribe to the podcast Join our Facebook Community Restorying the Culture: https://www.facebook.com/groups/restoryingtheculture Learn more about Tanya and Camille: www.camilleadair.com www.storyleaderglobal.com Support the podcast by donating to Living bridges: https://living-bridges.org/donate/     Episode Transcript   [00:00:01] Hi, welcome to Episode 3 with Tanya and Camille Restoring the culture. Today, we're going to be talking about how we restoring healing. And I'd like to share with you a quote first by Diane Wolke Steen and Samuel Kramer in the book Inanna Queen of Heaven and Earth. Life must be properly nourished and cared for before it can take root and begin to be differentiated. And we'll start by asking you, Tanya, how are you restoring healing in your work?    [00:00:45] Thank you, Camille. You know, it's funny because I never thought when I was starting out in any way that healing, first of all, was not something that interested me. Which is amazing because my whole career and life and work now, I feel is defined as a story worker, as a writing coach, solo performance coach, helping people extract their stories. My work has evolved into something completely of a healing nature.    [00:01:16] And for many years, I didn't even want to come out of the closet about that. I thought it would somehow diminish my credibility as a quote unquote, real artist. What I've learned is that real art is is ultimately about transfer formation. As a matter of fact, there are two kinds of stories that I've identified. And one is a toxic story, actually, and people don't think of storytelling can be toxic. But I'll explain in a moment. And one is a healing story, a transformational story. It's also the highest form of artistry to me is to go to the transcendent.    [00:01:52] So one thing I learned, as I have learned as a somebody who works with people so deeply on their personal narratives around one person shows and memoirs is the shadow of this kind of story. Work is self-indulgence from the ego. Or actually getting more attach to the victim's story or the story. Yet mostly the victim's story and the trauma story and reinforcing it by telling the story over and over and over. And interestingly, I had one client who was really an amazing client, but I start and very talented comedian, improvisational actor, but he was doing very deep trauma story. And what I started to realize was that rather than the story moving to a place of transcendence for him, he was getting really attached to doing it over and over and over and over. And I and I saw he was retaught traumatizing himself. And he was also getting validation from the audience as a victim. So this is real tricky. Knew what shadow stuff and many story workers and writing coaches, they and people at work with people in their books like I do.    [00:03:14] But I know a lot of people in the literary world, other other story coaches, writing coaches, they don't quite know how to work with us.    [00:03:21] And I mean, I've been working with this for a long time, but it's like behind the scenes, we all know it, but it's hard to identify it because it can be hard to verbalize it and help people move past it, because there's almost like the sacred thing around story where it's untouchable.    [00:03:39] But the reality is, it's all about a framework in which stories helps.    [00:03:44] And some years ago, I knew that I had to do something about this myself so that I could find a way to language with my clients what to do if I as their facilitator, which really means holding spaces, a healer for them to move through the story without looping, looping, looping on the trauma story to the point that it became their identification. Now the other type of story in the story in my work that I'm always working to move people towards is the story where they're actually telling the story not for the sake of the story itself, but to release an identity, to release trauma, to release. And suddenly as their own perspective, where they've gotten locked in on a story to live in, to the mystery, to oh open to the unknown, to live into a more expansive story for themselves. And when they do that, they're actually modeling that to the reader, to the audience, to who whoever they're serving them with their story. Because when we do tell a story, I feel. Yeah. A lot of my work is about the responsibility of telling stories and how they're helped because stories can retraumatize. And it doesn't mean there's not a place for the big breaking open.    [00:05:09] But how is one how one is presenting it right, especially as a work of art, as a solo show, as a whatever. And one story brings us closer. And when actually locks people either more into egoic identity or even pushes people away from them, that's also a danger when somebody stuck in a victim story or what can be read as self-indulgent. They're doing it to achieve more intimacy. But what happens instead is they push others away.    [00:05:37] Well, you know, as I was listening to you talk, I was.    [00:05:42] Taken immediately to the number of clients that we've shared and how we've talked about how our work together is is going beneath the story, right? It's about finding the story under the story, and that's where the healing and transformation take place. And it actually is taking me back to the quote I shared that has to do with that. Life must be properly nourished and cared for before it can take root and begin to be differentiated. So there's a paradox here where oftentimes I think the stories that we tell are not healing stories, because in order to differentiate, we have to tap into our root system and a lot of stories take us away from our root system. So I guess what I'd like to say is that.    [00:06:32] In my work, I find sometimes an over identification with the concept of healing. And a lack of connection and nurturing to the life that was passed on to us through our lineage and that it's the.    [00:06:49] It's the it's the going low and going slow.    [00:06:53] That helps us to reconnect to where we came from, that I think helps us sort of release.    [00:06:59] Even sometimes what I would think of is like the panic ground around our story and our healing. Right. Like that somehow that we're not okay just as we are or that we're not able to be vulnerable enough to to to have the people behind us who passed life on to us parents, grandparents and ancestors.    [00:07:23] Like with all that it costs them.    [00:07:26] And with all that it cost us for life to be passed on. And so I've developed something called systemic relational help. That's a framework that it's really not new. It's my it's language that I'm ascribing to concepts are very old. So I think I think that Spiderweb, you know, in any system is like a web. You touch one part of that system itself by all other parts of the system. So really our work is looking at the relationships between the things in the Web and and really understanding that we are relational beings, that we are we are organisms that are part of a greater organism. And how do we come into greater conscious awareness around the things that drive us in life, the things that influence us? And I think, you know, it's about for me, healing now has more to do with consciousness than anything else. And then I and I go and that actually takes me plenty how we come full circle. Right. So takes me back 20 years to when I started working in hospice as a nurse and making documentary films around Death and Dying. And and and I remember having one of those big aha moments when I realized that some of the most significant healing I was experiencing was the healing of dying people. And just to see the health and wellness are on a continuum, but they don't define who we are as people, that healing can happen. In any bodily condition and that it's not just about the body, right? Healing is multidimensional. And and I think the more conscious we become of ourselves as multidimensional beings, the more we can see that the body is is a part of that. But it isn't the whole story.    [00:09:26] How have you restoring healing in yourself?    [00:09:32] Well, one thing I wanted to say as a story worker is, and including myself as a story worker, as a performing artist, as a writer and ways I've worked with story as well as healing and how they've interrelated in my own life. But one thing, just going back a minute, I wanted to say all stories.    [00:09:55] In my experience, must be welcome like that, there's a sense of belonging around stories. And then it's appropriate developmental. Lee And I could say this in my own experience with truth of like really leaning into being an intimate storyteller, like my mentor, the late Spalding Gray, who I always honor in my work because I wouldn't have had a path or modeling without my early 19 year old reading of him and seeing his work and meeting him close with a college professor.    [00:10:25] But anyway, so there were times because I didn't want to my earlier stuff to sound a little judgmental. There is a time when it's almost appropriate for us to acknowledge our victim story, right. It's very important to develop, mentally move like through these different layers of story. I needed to do that. There was a time I just needed to speak out. And most people do rage or anger. If there's been a perpetration in our families, there's been a trauma in our own lives, our disappointment, our fragility, our fear of meeting lives. But when we get in lockdown with them is the problem. So I want to say that the expression of them is never the problem and develop mentally. We move individually and culturally like the metoo movement I see as a very important turning moment in the story for a certain kind of women's rage that I certainly relate to to come out. But it's not the end of the story. That's when it gets tricky. When we think these movements or even our own stories are the end of things. I think about story work as like enlightenment. It's not a finite process. When I was young, I thought, oh, enlightenment was static, awakening was static consciousness. There was an end point in one time. And, you know, we're given these sort of guru stories. Right? We get there. Part of my own story has been to let go of that role model. Understanding that authority on the outside is is simply another illusion in many ways to me, each person to me.    [00:12:00] We have the ability to awaken inside ourselves and we have the ability to work with story inside of ourselves. And the key. Right.    [00:12:10] And the trick is not getting attached, allowing one and expressing and continuing to move to go deeper, deeper, deeper, to sink deeper into our relationship with our stories are bigger stories. And that's been so the movement of my soul over the. To use a constellation phrase over the last let's see, third twenty five years since I did my first one woman show and I had such a passion for that. And I always say to people, to my clients and people working with purpose to move toward your passion, your desire. I had such a heart's desire to do that show and it opened up everything for me. And yet the key has been to do another show and another show. And then monologues move into my role as a mentor and coach and continue to morph not only in my professional life, but in my personal relationship to story moving from doing a certain kind of therapeutic work aligned with that, to doing more Quantum what I would call work with the quantum field, with the ancestral work with you, with shamanic practices that I've I've I've imbued by my work with others in those fields. So it's like the story work of one's life, right. My tapestry of my story work has been to deepen and deepen and deepen it, open the circle of belonging rather than shut down in a moment in my life. And that is the danger of a single story of a single moment, an attachment to it, that the bigger story work is the opening, the circle for ourselves, for our lives, for the world of stories, and less than I want to say on that. For me, a lot of the personal work has been to let go of any idea of taboo or any idea of unspeakable if we're human and it's happened. It's essential as part of our development with that in the restring to be able to speak it and be heard in it. There's no story to Tabu or to. Marginalized to have a place in this. The phrase that has come to me for decades is the global circs story circle. And that's what I've been working to create a place of these circles expanding and what they can hold. And it's been my own path to to hold to to just speak my life very intimately and transparently. Day to day, not just in formal settings of being on onstage or writing a post on Facebook or something. But being willing to be intimate with my personal story in the moment has been my healing. And you, Camille. Let's turn this on you in terms of your work, particularly with Constellation work, as well as systems work and your death and dying work, like what has been your personal journey and understanding on that journey and insights on that journey? What is your lean in to healing and restoring your concept of healing over these last many decades? I've known you for the last two.    [00:15:26] Well, you know, it's funny, like I knew exactly where I was going to come into this conversation, but just having you ask the question, I think took me a little bit deeper. And what came up for me is sort of this awareness that I have now that the path to wholeness.    [00:15:42] Is is to is to be allowing of where we're broken.    [00:15:49] And so for me, healing is in the way that you talk about story. For me, healing as a nurse and as somebody who's moving into the field of of humanizing mental health care and union psychology, I think.    [00:16:08] Yeah, I think that it is it is all about belonging, like you and I are saying the same things and we're applying it in different ways. But in terms of kind of my healing story.    [00:16:19] I think I had to.    [00:16:23] Experience where I was different and unique. Before I could in my family system, even before I could come back to being part of the family, which speaks to. There are all of these different developmental stages that we go through. Right. And so I've come back to feeling very much a part of my family system. But I had to feel like sort of an ugly duckling or sort of an odd one out for a while in order for me to sort of feel comfortable with being that and being connected. And I and I agree with you. I think part of lineage work in every way is naming, not only naming our parents and our ancestors, but naming our teachers. And so I'd like to acknowledge Helen Newman, who was my teacher and family constellation work and to Bert Hellinger and and many of the others. We're going to sit here. Who influenced the work and the Zulu tribe in whatever ways they contributed to this work?    [00:17:25] I want to acknowledge that and how that was really a big part of my healing after becoming a nurse. I would say that. Trusting my intuition has been part of my healing. I had a..    [00:17:39] I was given a diagnosis of a life threatening illness. And it was came on the heels of experiencing some extreme burnout and deep, deep chronic stress. Working as a hospice manager managed. I think at one point I was in charge of equal between two different offices in a a system that was very dysfunctional with a lot of heart and a lot of soul, but a lot of of it are relational kinds of dysfunction. And it took a toll on me. And and I just I was given instruction on how to handle this this potential, this this potentially life threatening illness. And I just knew intuitively that wasn't the right way for me. And so I didn't see a health care provider, clinician, physician, nurse practitioner for two years. I pretty much just rested and did the work that I could do that was not harmful to me for that two year period. And I think that that was what it was like, a restoration of something that needed to happen. And when I came out of it, then I went back into the system and I went to see a specialist who had been recommended to me. And when I went and saw the specialist teachers, he said, oh, you don't have that. So that was interesting that I didn't have it all along, but I was told I had it. And it took me into I mean, I literally got to the place where I was.    [00:19:13] I was doing my death and dying work after being a hospice nurse and making documentary films on death and dying and then being a hospital manager and coming up with my own, the things that you are sort of where erosive of my own healing, which were a lot of my unseen patterns about being a rescuer, about, you know, being a caregiver and over caring and not taking care of myself in the ways I needed to and how that has played out really in every relationship in my life. And so that's been a lot of my own healing work. And.    [00:19:55] So, yeah, I really have to say, I love, love, love what you said about belonging and about and I do think I can see that with you, that you're like a master of being able to hold any story from any person, wherever it like you meet people where they're at. Like that's one of the things that the teaching and in hospice work and it's stayed with me and my work is that we meet people where they're at. And when we can release judgment, I mean, I think judgment is one of the biggest enemies of healing.    [00:20:30] Well, one of the things that comes immediately to mind that is about our relationship to each other. Both of our work in the world, but and also our personal lives as. Restoring culture to a more healing place to me, I believe, will start with circles of humans all over the world.    [00:20:55] You know, I've had this vision like it's one of those subtle things in my mind's eye for 20 years since I started doing the work. And I would say it over and over. I see people in small circles, on stages all over the world sharing their stories. And since then, I mean, you and I created some of that work together. But I see this I see this going global. It's the small circles.    [00:21:17] You know, I know I'm part of a beautiful online group. My friend Perdita Finn runs and her husband, Clark's friend, The Way of the Rose about the divine feminine and praying the rosary. And I'm not Catholic. I'm spiritual, but not in any framework. But I just want to say, people are coming along. We're seeing this is a movement. I have my own group. You and I are having a Facebook group. It like goes now beyond just stages. Right. But no matter where we are, the small circles of women I think about and just people.    [00:21:51] I have a history in 12-Step programs, which is essentially a global story circle and the monologue work of people sharing around topic coming together, not just related to addiction or codependency or any other pathology, but just to or process, which is very, very valuable. But we've brought together groups of people around cancer, hospice, hospice, caregivers. What are the most meaningful things work I have ever experienced in my life was when we got to work with the Palestinian and Israeli and Arab Israeli girls who were brought all the way to New Mexico just so they could get in a circle together because that was it safe or possible where they lived. So they had to come thousands of miles to come on a circle together. And I remember we put them up on stage together sharing their stories. And here they were, three different groups. And this, of course, relates to global peace. It's like three different groups who came with all this fear of each other, see othering of each other, their families, of others, each other. There's individual and collective trauma and they're up on stage. Right. You remember that crying. And we'd gotten the meet red roses. And they were up there with their roses crying, holding hands after being in the circle, sharing their stories in front of about four or five hundred people together at the old sweetie center and then at the temple to holding hands, taking their vows, crying.    [00:23:19] They were one, and they were bound by stories. They each had the opportunity to be heard in their stories. And then they were there hearing each other's ancestral stories. They were there hearing each other's multi-generational stories bearing witness. Each one of them got a voice. And I for my life experience, the whole thing is bring two people together in collaboration, in stories to deeply listen and be heard. We witness them by the audience because something magical happens then, right? There's a bridge of compassion and awakening, breaking open in each person who's not only sharing, but of witnessing and bearing witness to these stories. So for me, you know, restoring the culture means, you know, restoring our healing work means listening deeply, being taking the risk to be intimate, sharing stories and letting the stories move through, move through us into bigger and bigger circles of story. So that was what first came up, is this is the time of the circles of wisdom and stories coming together. Tell me from you what first came up. Because I know there's so many ways into this in terms of restoring the culture around healing.    [00:24:41] I think for me, restoring the culture, it's side by side. You and I have so many parallels, right. Like you have your. And minds right next to it. And there's their cousins or their sisters or their one. But they have different expressions. Right. And I think for me, Reese, restoring. Healing in the culture has to do with intimacy and connection. And I think there's also the voice of the voiceless. You know, the feminine isn't always told in the in the story of the voice in language, because that's the left hemisphere of the brain and the relational half of the brain. I mean, of course, they're connected. It's not just right, left, right. They they have a relationship, fortunately. And then I think. I see circles of holding like you see circles of stories, I see us being able to heal with each other through close contact, through like restoring, restoring our human nervous systems and through resonance, close resonance with each other and through close resonance with the sensitive, highly sensitive relational fields that surround us and really learning how to tune in. And just to say that when I talk about mother, father and generational stuff, I also know that some people have stories that make that just feel completely unsafe and are out of bounds. And I get that and I totally embrace that and honor it. And I just want to say that there are ways to heal mother and father wounds without it being your mother and father. There are ways for us to get mother energy and to heal with one another through our nervous systems by us. As my friend says, lending his nervous system. I love that phrase. And and I just want to say that I feel like like healing is about coming closer or not moving further away. And holding center, I think learning how to hold center in these turbulent times, times of change and times of dissonance and crisis, it's like can we lean in where it's a bit uncomfortable instead of pulling away and and making the tension of offensive in our lives so taut that we become isolated and not just from others. That isolation happens inside, that we we actually reinforce the internal splits within us. And I think we're really being called right now to soften whether that softening through a dying practice, which doesn't mean you're necessarily dying, it means that you you understand that one day you will die. And it's, you know, like Stephen Levine's book, A Year to Live. If we all acted like we all sync up with the fact that we had the year to live, how would life change for us? You know, those are questions.    [00:27:40] Those are really helpful practices that even though they're called dying practices, they really are living practices. Those are the practices that reinforce living. And for me, healing is about coming into these human lives before we die. Before we die. Are we allowed to be fully human and fully connected as a human being before we die? So that means we're not always ident so overly identified with the world outside of us that we don't get to come into our vulnerability. Are we able to not disappear by persons and just identify with archetypes outside of ourselves and be led around in ways that we're not conscious of that take us out of our humanity?    [00:28:22] All of these things about how can we become human before we die? That's for me. That's the ultimate healing. Tanya, are you going to give some writing prompts now?    [00:28:34] Yes, I was actually just thank you for that. It was wonderful.    [00:28:38] And one of the things Camille and I are just sort of playing with and things may change and morph a little is we're just starting this and are but committed to showing up on these podcasts for a time being. We're playing around with ideas of really supporting you because we're really both facilitators as well as as mentors and speakers and writers and all the things we do to to have an interactive process where we're we're actually offering a writing.    [00:29:12] And you may or perhaps want. And Camille, we'll be doing meditations as well and we'll decide if we're doing it every week or one of each every every week. We're going to try both today. But for you to start a journal perhaps around restoring your life here and you can in the journal you're invited to do the weekly prompts or writing Cordle's to to begin to read, story your own and through the writing, see what wants to bubble up your own story, your own wisdom, your own healing. So we're going to start that today in this one. So related to your own healing.    [00:29:59] And I want to honor another one of my mentors and teachers, Natalie Goldberg, who wrote rap Writing Down the Bones is here in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and actually worked with some of the young women with us on that exact project with the Palestinian and Israeli Arab, Israeli young women I was speaking of and came in and helped us facilitate.    [00:30:18] But Natalie has written many, many amazing books, some writing, and her classic is Writing Down the Bones. So the way I work with people when you're journaling or free writing is through Natalie's sort of lens and guidelines, which is, you know, you may already do this, but it's important because do not do this on a computer because it actually uses a different part of the brain.    [00:30:43] This is getting really rooted with your intimate self, your writing voice. They just pen and paper. So the premise of free right is to just basically do a timed writing and keep your hand moving no matter what. OK, so I'm going to give you two props, actually. One is a topic and the other one is going to be a kind of an inquiry. And if you want to time it and just keep your hand moving for five minutes to start, that's great. If you want to do 20 minutes, you just decide. But the timer is important because it keeps you safe by yourself in a container. So because this really is an exercise of letting yourself go deep, but then safely bringing yourself out. So the first prompt that you may want to write on if this speaks to you is what story?    [00:31:38] Is getting my attention now. What story is getting my attention now?    [00:31:46] And you can just right on that. And another one is.    [00:31:51] And it actually is combining the last two podcasts. This one and the one before. My body, my body and just letting yourself go there five minutes or 20 minutes. Those as the two topics when an inquiry and one just to free ride on story that wants to reveal itself.    [00:32:13] And Camille. Are you going to close this out now with a meditation?    [00:32:16] Sure. So, again, this is going to be really brief, but it's something that you can take with you. And what I'd like you to do is close your eyes.    [00:32:26] And I'd like you to focus and find the place of least resistance within your body and rest there.    [00:32:35] And allow the natural breath to move in and out of your body. Just notice how we don't have to think about our breath. It happens even when we sleep. Like the tides of the ocean and the waves that move in and out. And I'd like you to imagine a river that flows at the pace of your life. And beneath this river is the slow river. The river beneath the river that I use in my work. And this river moves at the pace of your saw. And I'd like you to just stand next to this river beneath the river. And to really allow your body and your nervous system to feel that pace. And when we sink ourselves up with the river beneath the river, we sink ourselves with the naturalness of our being. And with nature herself, we find that everything that needs to happen happens.    [00:33:53] There's plenty of time.    [00:33:59] Because here we come into ourselves in a way where we are inside our. Medicine. And just allow yourself to do this when you feel yourself speeding up or feeling anxious and worried. Bring yourself to the river beneath the river.    [00:34:22] Thank you.    [00:34:26] No dispute. Well, thank you, everybody, for sharing with us this week and just acknowledging, my dear friend Camille or her beauty and wisdom here. It's such an honor to be in conversation with you, Camille.    [00:34:38] Thank you. I feel exactly the same way.    [00:34:41] I love everybody so much. Love. And you'll be OK. Yeah.   

Anyways Dude, I riff about telling stories on video again, inspired by Story Salon. Then I trip on my cheap new voice recorder and the challenges of recording outdoors.  PEOPLE: Captain Crozier, Spalding Gray, Casey Stengel, Dean Sharp PLACES: China, Los Angeles City, Los Angeles County, Altadena THINGS: Sony, buffs, Survivor, bandana, coronavirus, Story Salon, 90 Second Stories, janitorial, stand-up comedy, "That Thing You Do", Home with Dean SOUNDS: birds, chimes, sirens, lawn trimmer, wind, palm trees, airplane, dogs GENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journal PHOTO: "Keystone Garden Studio (Backstage)" shot on my "new" iPhone6  RECORDED: April 3, 2020 in the new "Keystone Garden Studio" under the flight path of the Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California  GEAR: Sony ICD PX370 digital voice recorder and Sony ECM CS3 "tie-clip" microphone. DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised. HYPE/SWIPE: "Don't call me dude." - John Lurie

Anyways Dude, I riff about telling stories on video again, inspired by Story Salon. Then I trip on my cheap new voice recorder and the challenges of recording outdoors. PEOPLE: Captain Crozier, Spalding Gray, Casey Stengel, Dean SharpPLACES: China, Los Angeles City, Los Angeles County, AltadenaTHINGS: Sony, buffs, Survivor, bandana, coronavirus, Story Salon, 90 Second Stories, janitorial, stand-up comedy, "That Thing You Do", Home with DeanSOUNDS: birds, chimes, sirens, lawn trimmer, wind, palm trees, airplane, dogsGENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journalPHOTO: "Keystone Garden Studio (Backstage)" shot on my "new" iPhone6 RECORDED: April 3, 2020 in the new "Keystone Garden Studio" under the flight path of the Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California GEAR: Sony ICD PX370 digital voice recorder and Sony ECM CS3 "tie-clip" microphone.DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.HYPE/SWIPE: "Don't call me dude." - John Lurie

Elizabeth LeCompte and Kate Valk of The Wooster Group speak with Peter Scott of Carriage Trade Gallery.  The exhibition mentioned in this episode, The Wooster Group at Carriage Trade Gallery, is on view in New York through February 16, 2020. The exhibition features archival material, props, and performance documentation emphasizing the group’s significant contribution to both performative and visual culture over the last four and a half decades. The production mentioned, A PINK CHAIR (in place of a fake antique) was at NYU Skirball Center for Performing Arts through February 2, 2020. A PINK CHAIR (In Place of a Fake Antique) references one of Polish stage director Tadeusz Kantor's (1915–90) manifestos. It describes a theater that gives the simplest, everyday objects—chairs—hallucinatory power to summon up forgotten history and memory. The Wooster Group (originating in 1975) is a company of artists who make work for theater, dance, and media at The Performing Garage at 33 Wooster Street in New York. Elizabeth LeCompte and Kate Valk are founding and original members of the group along with Spalding Gray (1941–2004), Jim Clayburgh, Ron Vawter (1948–94), Willem Dafoe, and Peyton Smith. Elizabeth LeCompte is director.

It's another Wondery podcast up top this week -- I'll try not to make a habit of it -- as guest Eve Batey and I contemplate American Elections: Wicked Game. Eve thinks the deep weekly dive into every single U.S. election, and the adjacent chicanery/felon...ery (?), might have worked better with visuals, while I confess I've still never seen/heard Hamilton but think the podcast is primed to get really good with a few tweaks. But is it crimey enough? We'll compare it to existing properties so you can decide. In the Cold Case section, Eve makes her pitch to turn 2015 documentary The Fear Of 13 into a podcast instead. Is Nick Yarris's highly personal Spalding Gray-esque tale intimate and credible, or strained and stagey? Is it...both? And who should play him in the scripted version? Philly accents, that notorious milk ad, and yes, the cutting of cheese: it's The Blotter Presents, Episode 119. [Editor's note: Apologies for residual barking that I couldn't scrub out of the track. Mr. Bear E. Williams is not always a good dog.] SHOW NOTES American Elections: Wicked Game: https://wondery.com/shows/american-elections-wicked-game/ The Presidential podcast from WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/podcasts/presidential/ Irving Stone's Those Who Love: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/68775.Those_Who_Love Jon Meacham's American Lion: Andrew Jackson In The White House: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3147367-american-lion The Fear of 13: https://www.netflix.com/watch/80099305 Nick Yarris talks to The Innocence Project about The Fear Of 13: https://www.innocenceproject.org/yarris-discusses-fear-of-13/ Still not subscribed to Best Evidence? Check it out: bestevidence.fyi

Jacquelyn Gill, paleoecologist and biogeographer, did a lot of theater growing up. She loved watching Spalding Gray’s monologues, where he would sit on stage and tell a deeply personal narrative about himself. Everything he did was constructed, of course, but you felt like you knew him. As Jacquelyn describes it, he created “bridges of empathy,” and it’s what inspired her to start Warm Regards – one of the first climate podcasts. It allows her to seek and present authenticity in ways restricted by essays or tweets. The climate conversation, she argues, has been largely restricted to the facts, which creates a sense of embattlement: wars around scientific credibility and accuracy that leave little space for breathing room or building long, slow, deep solutions. There’s an underappreciated value in talking to another human like they’re a human, as she’s able to do with radio. Jacquelyn has inspired us in our own work on the Breakthrough Dialogues, and we’re excited to share this episode with you.

This week on The Richard Crouse Show podcast writer and theatre creator Graham Isador joins the show. He trained as a part of the playwright unit at Soulpepper Theatre. Isador's first person journalism–pieces on spending a week living like Joe Rogen or searching for the worst bar in Niagara Falls–has appeared at VICE, The Risk Podcast, and the punk rock satire site The Hard Times, and many other places. Richard and Graham discuss his new Summer Works show White Heat, how seriously people should take online abuse, and the late, great Spalding Gray.

This week on The Richard Crouse Show podcast writer and theatre creator Graham Isador joins the show. He trained as a part of the playwright unit at Soulpepper Theatre. Isador's first person journalism--pieces on spending a week living like Joe Rogen or searching for the worst bar in Niagara Falls--has appeared at VICE, The Risk Podcast, and the punk rock satire site The Hard Times, and many other places. Richard and Graham discuss his new Summer Works show White Heat, how seriously people should take online abuse, and the late, great Spalding Gray.

Hey Dude, I tearfully recount Stan Hillas' celebration of life where I had to call upon my inner Dudeist priest to help lead the ceremony. ARTISTS: The Beatles, Ringo Starr, John Lennon, George Harrison, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Joe Frank, (DJ) Peter Hillas, Lenny Bruce, Jim Morrison, Spalding Gray, The Dude, Jim Rueland PLACES: Glendale, Guitar Center, South Pasadena, Descanso Gardens THINGS: baseball, soccer, karma, Dudeism, Pendleton, Westerly Sweater, Shamanism, The Little Prince, Irish Music GENRE: storytelling, personal narrative, personal journal PHOTO: "The Dude and Stan on the RadioHwy" shot on my iPhone5 SOUNDS: palm trees, wind, birds, jet airplane RECORDED: March 3, 2019 on the observation deck at the Zane Grey Estate in Altadena, California  DISCLAIMER/WARNING: Proudly presented rough, raw and ragged. Seasoned with salty language and ideas. Not for most people's taste. Please be advised.

Hey Dude, I watched Springsteen on Broadway on Netflix and I was totally blown away. The greatest one man show on Earth. MENTIONS: Elvis, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Billy Joel, Robbie Rist, John Doe, X, Spalding Gray

This 1987 filmed monologue changed the way mainstream media considered autobiographical performance art. We discuss how Gray made the film with director Jonathan Demme and the emotional themes throughout that resonate after his suicide. Interested in the media we discussed this episode? Please support the show by purchasing it through our affiliate store: Swimming To Cambodia (film) Swimming To Cambodia (book) Additional Resources: Georgakas, D., & Porton, R. (1993). The art of autobiography. Cineaste, 19(4), 34. Through a Lens, Intently. By: Salomon, Andrew, Back Stage East, 19305966, 5/25/2006, Vol. 47, Issue 21 Johnson, B. D. (1992). The talking cure. Maclean’s, 105(28), 44. FILM: SPALDING GRAY'S 'SWIMMING TO CAMBODIA' Swimming to Cambodia: A Channel for Spalding Gray’s Seismic Prose Theatrical Cinema: How Stop Making Sense, Swimming to Cambodia, and Bronson Combined Two Art Forms The Mask Behind the Voice Everything You Need to Know About the Movie That Inspired “Parker Gail’s Location is Everything” Demastes, W. (1989). Spalding Gray's "Swimming to Cambodia" and the Evolution of an Ironic Presence. Theatre Journal, 41(1), 75-94.

Laura and Chris host conversations with some of Canada's most celebrated playwrights in front of a live audience. Together, they explore their favourite monologues. Daniel MacIvor talks about his monologue from Who Killed Spalding Gray.

Our special guest is famed NYC acting coach Anthony Abeson who has worked with Jennifer Aniston and countless other well known stars. Anthony's high school summers were always spent in summer stock, acting and directing along with all the other jobs summer theatre required: stage managing, set construction, lighting design, etc. Even teaching surfaced then; his earliest memory is of writing the name "Konstantin S. Stanislavski" on a blackboard in front of bewildered children's theatre apprentices. During his college years at Columbia University he made his off-Broadway debut as an actor and assistant director at the Sheridan Square Playhouse in a repertory theatre whose director first introduced him to Lee Strasberg and the Actors Studio. He was unable to attend his graduation having been appointed by the Queen Elizabeth II Arts Council to serve as a resident actor and director of the Canterbury Theatre Company, in Christchurch, New Zealand, that country's first international, professional theatre, where he worked with actors from all over the UK. As a 22-year-old American it was a challenge to direct actors whose previous director had been Laurence Olivier. Anthony's teaching continued in New Zealand where he also served as director of the Experimental Theatre Laboratory of the Christchurch Academy of Dramatic Arts, the country's first training academy. In the late '60's he began his long collaboration with Jerzy Grotowski, first as an actor at the Centre Dramatique National du Sud-Est in Aix-en-Provence, France, and later, in the early '70's as a participant/assistant in Grotowski's first "Special Project" in a forest outside of Philadelphia. Further collaboration occurred under the auspices of the Instityut Aktora in Wroclaw and Brzezinka, Poland. In 1972 he accepted an invitation to join Peter Brook (former director of the Royal Shakespeare Company) at his Centre International de Recherche Theatrale in Paris, where he participated as an actor in the Centre's exploration of the effect of non-linear language on the process of the actor. The research was facilitated by the deliberate inclusion of actors from Japan, Africa, France,etc. with hardly any common language between them. Instead, during Anthony's stay, the verbal impulse was channeled into ancient Greek and /or bird calls. Texts were supplied by Ted Hughes, Sylvia Plath's husband, a distinguished poet who went on to become the Poet Laureate of England. During the late '60's and early '70's, Anthony started a theatre company, the Ensemble Theatre Laboratory, one of whose earliest members was the wonderful actor/monologist Spalding Gray, whose richly entertaining version of their tour to Missouri of their production of "The Tower of Babel" can be found in his "A Personal History of the American Theatre." During this time, Anthony continued to be exposed to Lee Strasberg and the Actors Studio, becoming one of the youngest people ever to address a special session with Lee. In 1973 Anthony started another theatre company, this time in Washington, D. C. : The Washington Theatre Laboratory with funding from the National Endowment for the Arts and the D. C. Arts Commission. Their training program marked the start of many careers including that of actresses Caroline Aaron and Karen Allen. Selected as a seminal archetype of the experimental theatre movement in America, its archival materials are housed in the permanent collection of The Jerome Lawrence and Robert E. Lee Theatre Research Institute at Ohio State University. Returning to New York, Anthony studied with Stella Adler at her conservatory and joined the faculty of the Drama Department of the High School for the Performing Arts (the "Fame" school) where he first worked with Esai Morales and Jennifer Aniston, among many talented others. Jennifer, who went on to study in Anthony's adult classes before leaving for LA, wrote of one of her experiences with him in Marlo Thomas's book: "The Right Wo...

Bruce Jackson has a had a long, varied, and brilliant career as a teacher, photographer, folklorist, writer, and filmmaker. Colin first encountered his work while researching the prisons in Arkansas. Bruce visited prisons in the 1960s and 70s, trips that produced photos for his books Killing Time, Cummins Wide, and Inside the Wire. Bruce was born in New York City, joined the Marines as the Korean War was ending, and studied in New Jersey and Indiana before winding up in the English Department at the University of Buffalo, where he still teaches. He also tried his hand at engineering and took the law exam before winning a Guggenheim and a fellowship from Harvard, both of which allowed him to travel to Arkansas to do his prison research.     During his career, Bruce has met everybody from Johnny Cash to Michel Foucault. Recently, he's worked with the Wooster Group, which has been home to actors as varied as Spalding Gray and Willem Dafoe. As he tells Colin, he calls himself "lucky." Thankfully, his somewhat accidental creative process has produced original and revealing work. 

Sonny Smith is an old San Francisco friend I hadn’t spoken to in fifteen years. Here’s what Mother Jones had to say about his new album:“On his own, or as leader of Sonny and the Sunsets, the engaging Sonny Smith specializes in finely observed vignettes about everyday people that showcase his wry, slackerish voice. For all its rough edges, though, there’s nothing casual about his scruffy garage pop, which tempers a streak of melancholy with offhand, self-aware wit. Produced by Black Keys frontman Dan Auerbach (who knows a thing or two about making eccentricity accessible), Rod for Your Love is Smith’s most commercial effort yet—it’s all relative—boasting a brighter sound and sunnier vibe than before. Witness the jaunty, toe-tapping optimism of the irresistible “Lost,” where he chirps, “I know the way this time,” or the romantic drama “Burnin’ Up,” featuring Angel Olsen’s tangy harmonies. While Smith may never top the charts, he’s never been more entertaining or more deserving of mainstream attention.”We talked about flying to Nashville to be produced by a rock star (and guests Pat Sansome of Wilco and Angel Olsen), and about then deciding to head home and onto his next projects instead of hitting the road to promote that album. We traded Robyn Hitchcock and Spalding Gray stories. We went into the tough decisions artists need to make regarding creative living versus promoting a creative life. To name just a few topics. We had a lot of fun reconnecting. Or at least I did. I think we both did. We mention a few names and places. Virgil = Virgil Shaw, Kelly = Kelly Stoltz, Atom = Atom Ellis, and the Make Out Room is a bar I used to work at and he used to play at in the Misison in SF.Find all episodes of 15 Minutes at:http://15minutesjamieberger.comLately, we’ve had to turn down a couple of great guests because there’s just no budget to put up more episodes in a timely fashion. Please help us make this show more than twice a month, at: https://www.patreon.com/15minutesjamiebergerOr via Paypal at 15minutesjamieberger@gmail.comThanks! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

"Calvin. Lorna. Maura. Bjarne" is an ever evolving written work by artist & musician Mykki Blanco. Conceived during a writing residency at Hordaland Kunstsenter in Bergen Norway in September and October of 2017, "Calvin. Lorna. Maura. Bjarne" is both a performance art work and the beginning of a novel. The first installment of the work is a 40 minute excerpt from the story recorded as an audio-book and podcast that one can listen to at leisure. Originally performed in front of a live audience Mykki Blanco orates the story in a theatrical fashion reminiscent and inspired by equal parts the late Spalding Gray and William Burroughs. "Calvin. Lorna. Maura. Bjarne" is narrated by Calvin the main character, a thirty something HIV positive African American actor. The story is used in many ways by Blanco to redefine narratives surrounding HIV, giving a contemporary vantage point on the disease that differs greatly from much of the fatalistic rhetoric that still surrounds those living with the condition in the 21st century. "Calvin. Lorna. Maura. Bjarne" is a story about narcissism and self destructive behavior, new age delusion and a millennial take on the timeless search for self.Mykki Blanco’s podcast was produced whilst on a residency hosted by Hordaland Kunstsenter in the autumn of 2017. The podcast was initially launched as a live performance event by Blanco held at Hordaland Kunstsenter on 27 October, as part of Meteor festival 2017.The podcast is part of a series also featuring Mårten Spangberg’s “News from the Last of the International Hot Shots / Natten”. These podcasts further Hordaland Kunstsenter’s ongoing exploration of the notions of publicness, institutional presence, and audience using the wide dissemination potential of the medium of podcast to challenge the conventional institutional limitations of presenting and sharing artwork experiences. Furthermore, the project questions how artistic qualities not native to audio - such as live performance, writing, choreography and visuality - can be translated for a sound broadcast concept, and whether the distribution of podcasts might offer a platform to increase the “visibility” of performance art in a contemporary art context in which performance still lacks consistent presentation opportunities outside of live events and video documentation.Produced by Hordaland Kunstsenter with support from Bergen Kommune and The Norwegian Arts Council. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Actor, screenwriter, monologist Spalding Gray kills self during a depression. On January 10, 2004, Spalding Gray was to have flown to Aspen, Colorado from New York, but his flight was cancelled. Instead, he took his two boys, Theo and Forrest, to see the movie Big Fish, about a dying father and his relationship with his son. After the movie, he said he was going to visit friends, but never reached their home. Two months later, on March 9th, Gray’s body was pulled out of the East River. Spalding Gray was born in Barrington, Rhode Island on June 5, 1941, one of three boys to a homemaker mother and factory worker father. Gray began acting in high school and carried on in regional theatres until moving to New York where he created plays based on his childhood memories. By 1979 Gray had launched a new kind of performance art becoming known as a “monologist.” He would tell stories using minimal props, such as a desk, water and some notes. He spoke openly with darkness and humour about his life, including his infidelity and his battle with depression. His own mother, suffering from depression, had killed herself at the age of 52. Gray spoke to audiences of his deep depression as he approached the same age. He performed his craft in large theatres and on Broadway, as well as in many movies. In 2001, while on vacation in Ireland, his family and others were in a van that crashed. Gray was the only one not wearing a seatbelt. Depressed at the slow pace of his recovery, he said on a number of occasions that he would kill himself. When he finally did so on January 10, 2004, he was 62 years old. (Note: Health Canada states that approximately eight per cent of adult Canadians are affected by a major depression at some time in their life.) See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Deleted scenes and outtakes from WEE #108: This Was Hate, including an explanation of the John Rocker joke. Why are the Secret Service coming for Jack? What is Freet's instagram? Who's this new caveman character? All that plus sad discussions about John Travolta, William Shatner and Spalding Gray. ​ www.weepodcast.com

Mike (@mumbles3k) and Marcelo (@marcelojpico) come together to break down all of Steven Soderbergh's 28 films, covering his 28-year career, starting from his feature film debut and going all the way to Logan Lucky. In Episode 22, they discuss the documentary that acts as Spalding Gray's final monologue, And Everything Is Going Fine.

Amsterdam, Christmas 2013  As ex-heavyweight champ, Sonny Liston, always said, "Life... a funny thang". It comes and goes -- in cycles. When we're in an "up" cycle... feeling good about ourselves and our lives, it seems nothing can go wrong. We're invincible. When we're in a "down" cycle... of loss, transition, fear, it seems that nothing can go right. We're unworthy. Me? I'm more like Chicken Little, always expecting the sky to fall... than like Mary Poppins, always ready to fly away into her next optimistic adventure. But on this trip, I talk about "perfect moments"... you know those evasive, ephemeral life experiences that you so seldom capture. Those things that my solo performance predecessor, Spalding Gray, always yearned for, but never found. Anyway.... this episode is about Amsterdam and perfect moments. Or... "perfect enough"...... if you are in the right place at the right time... with the right attitude. Please listen to Episode 15, "Amsterdam, the 'Perfect City': http://erictrules.com/episode15

On Twitter: @PureNonfiction @thompowers“Swimming to Cambodia” is now available on DVD. This episode also touches upon the IFC TV series “Documentary Now” that has a parody episode of the film titled “Parker Gail's Location is Everything” (season 2, episode 3). Pure Nonfiction is distributed by the TIFF podcast network.

“Swimming to Cambodia,” the 1987 film directed by Jonathan Demme, had a rippling influence. It laid the path for a kind of first person storytelling that today is widespread from “This American Life” to “The Moth.” The film is deceptively simple: monologuist Spalding Gray sits behind a desk and tells a stream of consciousness story […] The post PN 47: Jonathan Demme & Renée Shafransky on Spalding Gray appeared first on Pure Nonfiction.

"I say that I can't make anything up. I think of myself as a collage artist. I'm cutting and pasting memories of my life. And I say, I have to live a life in order to tell a life."   Cette semaine nous rendons hommage à célèbre conteur Spalding Gray via deux films de Steven Soderbergh (GRAY'S ANATOMY (1996) et AND EVERYTHING IS GOING FINE (2010))   Ce fût une découverte incroyable que de rencontrer cet homme via ces oeuvres. Bonne émission.

"I say that I can't make anything up. I think of myself as a collage artist. I'm cutting and pasting memories of my life. And I say, I have to live a life in order to tell a life."   Cette semaine nous rendons hommage à célèbre conteur Spalding Gray via deux films de Steven Soderbergh (GRAY'S ANATOMY (1996) et AND EVERYTHING IS GOING FINE (2010))   Ce fût une découverte incroyable que de rencontrer cet homme via ces oeuvres. Bonne émission.

Jonathan Demme has directed a steady stream of documentaries in between his prominent output of fiction films. In this conversation with Thom Powers, Demme talks about “Swimming to Cambodia,” the breakthrough monologue by Spalding Gray; “Cousin Bobby” about the Harlem-based Episcopalian priest Robert Castle; “The Agronomist” about the Haitian radio journalist Jean Dominique; “Jimmy Carter: […] The post PN 06: Jonathan Demme’s Real Life Characters appeared first on Pure Nonfiction.

Naomi Grossman is best known for her portrayal of the fan-favorite, “Pepper” on FX’s American Horror Story: Asylum. Previously, Naomi wrote, produced, and starred in her second hit solo show, Carnival Knowledge:  Love, Lust, and other Human Oddities, which enjoyed a twice-extended, sold-out run and rave reviews (“Recommended” by LA Weekly).  It was then reprised at the world-famous fringe theatre festival in Edinburgh, Scotland, where it received more critical praise (4 stars: The Scotsman, Broadway Baby, Fringe Review) and a transfer to London’s West End (Leicester Square Theatre).  It later went on to have a successful run Off-Off Broadway. Naomi’s first solo show, Girl in Argentine Landscape, also received critical acclaim (LA Weekly, “Pick of the Week”) and earned her an LA Weekly Theatre Award nomination for best solo performance.  Naomi toured with Girl to Chicago's Single File Festival, the Los Angeles Women’s Theatre Festival, the New York International Fringe Festival, and screened a subtitled video-version on the big screen in Argentina. A former member of the esteemed Groundlings Sunday Company, as well as alumna of Improv Olympic, Naomi has written, produced, and starred in numerous comedic shorts under her “Red Meat Entertainment” banner, which have screened at the LA Comedy Shorts Film Festival, the TriMedia Film Festival, the Connecticut Film Festival, the Dam Short Film Festival, the Faux Film Festival, the Los Angeles Comedy Festival, the Wet Your Pants Comedy Film Festival, the Action On Film International Festival, and the Hollywood Reel Independent Film Festival.  Naomi also made a cameo in the feature film,Table for Three. A graduate of theatre from Northwestern University, Naomi has acted in several of Chicago’s illustrious, long-running, cult comedies:Cannibal Cheerleaders on Crack and Shannen Doherty Shoots a Porno at the Torso Theatre, as well as Attack of the Killer B’s and White Trash Wedding and a Funeral at the Factory Theatre. Notes from the show: Naomi started acting and comedy with KidSkits in Denver Started LA quest for acting success by reading Backstage West. Los Angeles is not a theatre town. She recommends going to Paley Center for Media, watch solo shows by John Leguizamo, Eric Bogosian, Lily Tomlin, Spalding Gray. Here are Naomi's book recommendations: The Luck Factor - Dr. Richard Wiseman The Secret - Rhonda Byrne Ask and It Is Given  - Esther and Jerry Hicks You Are a Badass - Jen Sincero There's No Business Like Soul Business - Derek Rydall Failing Forward - John C. Maxwell A Year in Van Nuys - Sandra Tsing LohRecommendation from Michael Prywes:Essentialism - Greg McKeown A-ha moment: "I'm not acting. I'm a professional mailer. If these people won't cast me, I'll cast myself." Naomi's biggest mistakes: "Waiting for success to come to me. And not getting jobs that used my brain." How Naomi plans her day: "LISTS!" Naomi shares a treasure trove of information, advice, and emotional experiences. She talks about her darkest days, and the time she realized she "arrived." She also gives a comprehensive rundown of her special visiting artist lecture at Northwestern University, twenty years after Ethan Hawke's memorable lecture. This podcast hosted by New York attorney Michael Prywes was sponsored by Prywes Schwartz, PLLC, a law firm devoted to artists and entrepreneurs. This podcast may contain attorney advertising. Prior results do not guarantee future outcomes.

Tanya Taylor Rubinstein speaks with Joanna about: the story in an embodied way; walking the path of tenacity; a moment of revelation: Spalding Gray’s solo performance; story and spirituality; intimacy and safety in storytelling; solo performance: the key connection with the public; the Global School of Story; teaching the skills of storytelling; radical transformation through […] The post Telling the New Story appeared first on Future Primitive Podcasts.

_ Snacky Tunes _ is back with a brand new episode featuring Chef Johnny Zone of Howlin’ Rays Hot Chicken and musical guest Jaye Bartell. Straight from the scene in Los Angeles, host Darin Bresnitz is in conversation with Johnny, talking his serious passion for fried chicken. An LA native, Johnny shares that he has worked under some of the best chefs in the world, including Thomas Keller, Gordon Ramsay and Nobu Matsuhisa.  Last year, during a stage at Sean Brock’s Husk in Nashville, a local chef introduced Johnny to Nashville Hot Chicken. It was instantaneous love. Johnny brought back tales of this hidden gem to LA and thus Howlin’ Rays was born. In the second half of the show, Greg Bresnitz welcomes musician Jaye Bartell to the studio.  Born in Massachusetts, Jaye Bartell moved to Asheville, NC, in the early 2000s where he began playing music among friends as a parallel activity to his work with poetry and other writing. Writing was his main focus for most of a decade—a time that involved constant traveling and moving around the U.S., mostly between North Carolina and the Pacific Northwest, where he lived on a small island in northern Washington. It wasn’t until Jaye moved to Greenpoint, Brooklyn in the fall of 2013, where he began working on the new set of material that will furnish his next release — a set of songs that examine and resist transcendence, dissociation, and departure to “find a home on earth” as Robert Creeley wrote, and take images and inspiration from hot air balloons, Spalding Gray, and the neighborhood around McGolrick Park. “The beauty to me is its [hot chicken] relatability in all culture… Why I fell in love with it is the heat really opened up my palate, it gave me a different sensation!” [28:45] –Johnny Zone on Snacky Tunes

Tina's in a musical mood and Larry and Chris (and Marisa) continue their conversation from last week.  They discuss old movies, blu-rays, dinner arrangements, potential contests, dog leads, the noises their phones make and Gene Simmons' tongue.  They cover a lot of ground this time.  It's binaural.  Grab your headphones.  Enjoy!

On this week's show, I talk to the poet Tim J. Myers, Plus Dan Lauer explains the impact Spalding Gray's Swimming to Cambodia had on him. TEXTS DISCUSSED Dear Beast Loveliness" style="color: #2b6fb6; text-decoration: none;"> Floyd: Susannah" style="color: #2b6fb6; text-decoration: none;"> Swimming To Cambodia" style="color: #2b6fb6; text-decoration: none;"> The Heaven of Animals: Stories" style="color: #2b6fb6; text-decoration: none;"> NOTES Walter Pater: "All art constantly aspires towards the condition of music" (From The School of Giogione). Think about helping Beating Windward Press fund new art for its Doc Voodoo pulp fiction series. The swag is considerable, like this t-shirt.

Hillary (Barbara Hershey) and CC (Bette Midler) meet as children vacationing in Atlantic City, N.J., and remain friends throughout the decades. As CC, a loud New Yorker, pursues a singing career, Hillary, a staid Californian, becomes a successful lawyer. Over the years, they often quarrel or compete, but, as other relationships flourish and die, the two women are always there for each other, traveling from coast to coast through the most tumultuous times. Stream online: https://amzn.to/3bw6hNi Become a Patron: https://www.patreon.com/mfrbooksandfilm?fan_landing=true

Hillary (Barbara Hershey) and CC (Bette Midler) meet as children vacationing in Atlantic City, N.J., and remain friends throughout the decades. As CC, a loud New Yorker, pursues a singing career, Hillary, a staid Californian, becomes a successful lawyer. Over the years, they often quarrel or compete, but, as other relationships flourish and die, the two women are always there for each other, traveling from coast to coast through the most tumultuous times. Stream online: https://amzn.to/3bw6hNi

This episode is no longer in itunes, but it is here: http://drop.io/hammerdownsomethingelse46This weeks ep is filled with vino, and once it starts flowing we talk (500) Days of Summer, Spalding Gray, Scanners, The Right Stuff, Inglourious Basterds, and somehow masturbation comes up somewhere.The Review this week are 3 red wines.The List is 5 time wasters. Here is a video I forgot to mention, but I have to post it:Made by friend of the show Colin.We talked about this:This was one of our news stories: And this is the Bronson Trailer I talk about a lot:Subscribe in a reader